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Dr. Patty Ann Tublin is an internationally acclaimed relationship, emotional intelligence and communication expert. She is that rare individual who seamlessly moves among corporations, entrepreneurs and individuals creating business and personal success through her consulting, coaching and professional speaking.

• Michael tells the story of his past business partner and his partner’s struggles with his relationship with his wife. The stress she created ultimately ended the partnership.
• Our conscious and unconscious attitude towards money is formed by the age of 12. It’s formed from the conversations and fights the adults in our lives have when we are in our youth.
• Fighting about money has nothing to do with whether or not you have money and has everything to do with what the money represents to you.
• Chances are Michael’s business partner’s wife was raised in a saver household and had a scarcity mindset around money.
• Depending on how we are raised, we either imitate the path our parents showed us or do the complete opposite. We have a relationship with money just as much as we have a relationship with people and they are both heavily influenced by your environment when growing up.
• People don’t do a financial audit of their attitudes towards money before they get married, and that can come back to haunt them. As a couple, you need to identify your investing goals and what money represents to each of you.
• Money is a way to buy stress out of our lives and give us choices that would otherwise not be open to us. Many people deny the role that money plays in our lives.
• Your money mindset comes into play whenever you make a purchase so it’s definitely a conversation you need to have with your significant other.
• When it comes to investing, if you don’t invest today to make your future better then you will have to be satisfied with what you end up with.
• There is no reward without some element of risk, but if you find you or your spouse resistant to the idea of investing in something, you need to address the mindset of why it feels too risky.
• If you don’t understand your risk tolerance you won’t be able to make timely decisions.
• Differing risk tolerance is the most common money stressor between married couples. The fear of losing money has to be addressed, acknowledged, and respected. Chances are that fear is from experience.
• There is a lot of power and control attached to money as well that people should keep in mind. A risk-averse partner might be trying to wield their power over the other, more dominant, partner.
• One of the most difficult conversations anyone can have is asking for a raise, despite the fact that the amount of money involved is rarely life-changing. Money is fraught with emotion for most people.
• When someone in a relationship does show resistance to spending money, ask them their concerns and then dig deeper to the real issue. Listen to what’s not being said.
• If you really want to learn about someone, either live with them or lend them money. The way people pay their bills tells you a lot about them.
• A couple that is on the same page about money can grow their business faster and with less stress. It may take some coaching or therapy to get there but it’s worth it.
• As an entrepreneur, you have to understand your relationship with money. How much money will you have to put in your business? What about the money you will have to spend on your personal development? If you don’t figure out your relationship with money before you start your business, there will come a time later when you’ll be forced to.
• Both partners don’t have to be fully involved in the investments, but there has to be trust and transparency, and clarity on the goals.
• In marriages where the husband handles the money entirely, it’s often because of the wife’s money mindset. In order to best take care of their significant other, they need to have access to that information. They need to understand where their financial security is going to come from.
• Every man on the planet has had a woman in their life who has suffered because of their lack of knowledge about money and financial investment.
• Money is part of the love story. Many people start with nothing and the nest egg is something they build together, so both parties need to be involved and understand what’s happening.
• Seek professional help and let your money work as hard for you as you do for your money.

Mentioned in this episode:

Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy - rozstrategies.com

drpattyann.com

Money Can Buy You Happiness: Secrets Women Need to Know To Get Paid What They Are Worth! by Patty Ann Tublin

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Scott Zarret is a CPA who went to school at the University of Maryland and is the founder of CPAacademy.org. They are the largest provider of free continuing education to the accounting profession and have over 365,000 members.

• Scott comes from a family of accountants/educators so what he’s doing now is not a far cry from what he grew up with. He started out in public accounting but quickly realized that it wasn’t his cup of tea. He worked several jobs since that first foray into the business until he was introduced to the idea of selling cost segregation studies.
• He put on his entrepreneurial hat and thought about how to sell something like that and realized that education was the way to go. He put on a live event that went really well but realized that live events don’t scale well, so he started pursuing the idea of online education with a model similar to the major universities.
• The first few years in business weren’t easy, but that struggle is what taught Scott the lessons he needed to learn in order to build the business he has today.
• Every state requires an average of 40 hours of continuing professional education to maintain your CPA license. There is no other profession with that level of requirement. From a marketing perspective, this is a great captive audience and there is a huge demand for this kind of education.
• Anything where you can make the argument that the topic will make the CPA more effective at their job, it will qualify as continuing professional education.
• CPA academy offers these courses for free so it’s a gold mine for small to midsize firms that care about budget and want to spend their time well.
• Last year was the tax season from hell, and this year is looking to top it. Around this time last year, the demand for education exploded right after the stay-at-home orders. People were scrambling to understand the recent PPP legislation as well as the new work-at-home paradigm.
• This year, PPP is still important but there are new programs being introduced that CPA’s need to stay up to date on. Each state has its own programs and bills working their way through the system which leaves a lot of uncertainty in the business.
• From an educational standpoint, there is going to be a greater shift to online learning no matter what happens with Covid. The flipside to that is that live events and conferences are on the decline.
• Scott has also noticed a trend towards people looking for content that’s grouped together like a mini-certification.
• Scott opened the CPA Academy with one goal which was to deliver free continuing professional education. It started off with webinars and is developing in a number of different directions.
• There are seven main topics that Scott believes are going to be in high demand in the future. They are financial planning, tax controversy, estate planning, non-profits, international tax, retirement planning, state and local taxes.
• Tax controversy isn’t as popular as it should be which is probably an advertising issue, but it can be extremely difficult for CPA given all the educational content available.
• Bankruptcy, tax resolution, and tax controversy go hand in hand and we are seeing the biggest spike in bankruptcies right now since 2010. Of the 110,000 businesses that have closed during the pandemic, many of them are going to owe income taxes. For most CPA’s, they need to realize that a quarter to a third of their existing clients are going to need tax resolution representation in the near future.
• CPA’s and EA’s need to at least know the basics with regards to dischargeability. You don’t need to know everything about bankruptcy, you just need to know how to interpret and read the basic documents and be able to refer the client to the right professional.

Mentioned in this episode:

Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy - rozstrategies.com

CPAacademy.org

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Chris Rivera is the director of client relations and business development at Entigrity, a leading offshore solutions provider to the tax and accounting space. Chris’s background had always been in client relations. He came from the corporate world and worked in a number of industries but he wasn’t particularly happy with the work. It wasn’t until he saw a job posting for a remote worker did Chris learn about a new way of doing things.

• Chris began working for his future founding partner who was an accountant and got a crash course in accounting over the next six months. He began working with clients and developing those relationships to help grow the fledgling business.
• Going through the remote hiring process himself helped establish the framework they use to help accountants find remote employees now.
• Remote work has been around since the introduction of the internet, but in most industries, it hasn’t been fully embraced until recently.
• The CPAs that Chris talks to generally need a fair bit of education to help them understand the remote aspects of the work. He helps address their concerns and uses the initial call to determine exactly what they require from a remote worker.
• Once onboarded, the client is assigned a relationship manager to help keep the lines of communication open. The client gets to interview the potential candidates for their project so they have full control.
• There is a difference between outsourcing and offshoring. They seem the same to many people, but with the offshoring model, you still have control over the employee. Working with somebody that is part of your team is a great way to scale a business while remaining flexible.
• There has been a spike in business since May of last year. The pandemic is showing everyone that they can work with anyone anywhere. This technology has also made it easier to conduct business as well.
• Clients call Chris for a number of different reasons, the main ones being bookkeeping, audits, and accounting. It’s always important to diversify your resources, and that includes your team.
• In regards to audits, clients are mainly looking for data entry work so they don’t get completely bogged down and end up working late hours. It’s much more cost-effective to offshore certain kinds of work.
• Staffing shortages in accounting are a big problem. This makes the cost savings of Entigrity for their clients even more important.
• The sweet spot for Entigrity clients is in the 10 to 15 employee range, where they tend to plateau and have trouble finding more people locally and taking on additional work.
• A common concern is privacy. Chris finds that most accountants they work with are worried their clients will not be willing to give their consent to allow a third party to work on their files, but the reality of the situation is that the vast majority of people don’t care. Most clients just want the work done at a reasonable price.

Mentioned in this episode:

Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

Entigrity.com

Entigrity on LinkedIn - linkedin.com/company/entigrity

Chris Rivera on LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/chrisriveraus

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Jaime Buchwald is the Co-founder and CEO of Pitbull Tax Software, which is the premier software used by tax resolution professionals and the industry in general.

• Jaime originally created his software company because he originally had the same problem that most successful tax resolution firms had, specifically he was able to bring in a ton of work but getting it all done became a massive hurdle.
• That’s why he created a full automation software package which allows tax resolution firms to run their business more efficiently.
• He’s also currently a practicing tax resolution professional in addition to running his software company.
• The IRS is coming back with a vengeance. The cases are coming in hot as they begin ramping up operations again. In 2019 levies were up 32% and notices of Federal tax liens were up 13%. A few months ago the IRS sent out over 2 million notices to people who are falling behind and they will need to address these before long.
• We will likely see more bankruptcies in the next 12 months than ever before. The good news for tax resolution practitioners is that you can’t use bankruptcy to escape certain taxes and this is going to lead to a flood of business.
• Practitioners need to realize that every payroll tax case is actually two cases due to the associated trust fund recovery penalty. It’s predicted that 40% of small businesses have closed or will close over the next few months.
• Tax resolution professionals have an opportunity to help these people find relief from a very miserable situation. It’s incumbent on us to protect our clients from this coming deluge of tax cases.
• Practitioners that have a book of business have a huge opportunity to help their existing clients with tax resolution. By not doing anything they are doing a disservice to their clients.
• There are now so many resources available to the up-and-coming tax resolution professional. It’s very lucrative and well worth your time to work with either Michael or Jaime to add tax resolution services to your business.
• There are thousands of practitioners on the Pitbull Tax platform and due to the nature of the system, it’s possible for tax resolution firms to work completely remotely while still offering them hands-on support.
• The platform can even help new tax resolution practitioners understand the business and how to serve their clients the best.
• Tax resolution is one of the fastest-growing aspects of the industry right now and there are a huge number of tools and resources available to make adding it as a service easier than ever.
• Successful tax resolution practitioners all share the same attributes. They invest in themselves and their education, but they don’t just invest. They implement it too.
• The tax resolution industry changes constantly, so investing a little time and education is crucial to stay on top of what’s happening.
• The best time to invest in new employees or a new coach is when you can least afford it. Doing so motivates you to bring in the cases and justify the expense.
• You don’t have to know everything about the business, you just need to know who to ask or where to look.
• Will the IRS ever automate tax resolution the way they have with compliance? It seems pretty unlikely at this point. Other than that, the future is good for tax resolution professionals.
• Once you learn about tax resolution you’ll start to notice the opportunities that are all around you. There are between 4500-5000 firms that are marketing tax resolution services in any meaningful way. Contrast that with the 11.2 million people in the collection division of the IRS. We are likely to see roughly 20 million collection cases by the end of 2021 which means there is way more demand than there is supply.
• The major firms in your local area offering tax resolution services are actually helping your business by educating the customer base. Don’t be afraid to “compete” with them.

Mentioned in this episode:

Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

PitbullTax.com (code: rozbiz)

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Justin Miller’s agency runs a marketing company that does both online and print marketing. Before the agency, Justin was a disc jockey and he grew that business for 20 years. Around the 15th year, Justin decided that he really wanted to focus on the marketing specifically. He dabbled with consulting and after a few more years sold the disc jockey business and opened his current consulting business.

• Direct mail is taking over the marketing world in 2021. The reason that it works is that it’s unpopular. Not many businesses are doing it, and surveys have shown that people feel more connection to a physical piece of mail than an ad in their Facebook feed.
• It’s a great way to get noticed, assuming you have a viable product or service to sell once you have their attention.
• The average person only gets one personalized letter every 62 days. This means that mailboxes are very uncluttered and are a great channel to use.
• Direct mail done right works.
• Always have an offer when using direct mail. Most of the time the whole point of the campaign is lead generation, so you don’t need to force a sale.
• Justin would rather have someone mail a smaller list 3 to 4 times than a larger list just once. Repetition matters.
• Make sure you have a clear call to action and multiple ways for them to respond. This can take the form of a landing page, a phone number to call, or a number to text.
• The goal is to have your piece not perceived as junk mail.
• Doing an every-door direct mail campaign on the main business route in your city would be a great place to find IRS problem clients.
• For high value service providers, even tiny numbers make direct mail campaigns very successful. It only takes a couple responses to make a campaign profitable.
• If you’re going to be in the direct mail business, knowing your numbers is crucial. You have to trace everything from the cost per lead to cost per acquisition to your conversion rate.
• The issue is that the numbers are not statistically relevant to making decisions. For a high ticket service you need to stay the course for at least 90 days. If you can do that you should be able to see the value of the direct mail campaign.
• The main goal is to try to get your piece of mail opened. Things like a stamp on the envelope and a handwritten-style address are necessary to achieve that goal. The return address is typically just the street address which is just enough information to pique someone’s interest and get the mail piece opened.
• Once it’s opened you have a second challenge. Most people don’t pay attention to the way something goes into an envelope. The first thing you want people to see is your headline.
• Extra weight or thickness can make your piece stand out and increase the odds of it being opened, but the best thing you can do is reach the right person at the right time.
• If you’ve picked the right mailing list you have the right person, but you also have to arrive at the right time, which is out of your control. This is why repetition is the most important thing, because it gives you more than one chance to be there at the right time.
• If your prospect is worth a lot of money to you, the more times you can mail them, the better.
• One of the more time consuming tips is to go through your list and use your personal perspective to prune those who you think aren’t worth the time of sending to. Go through your list and take the time to save money up front so you can send more often to the right people.
• As long as the post office gets back to its previous level of service, direct mail should definitely be in most business owner’s toolkits.
• It always comes down to getting started. You don’t have to have a big list to make direct mail work for your business. A small number of prospects can make a big difference.

Mentioned in this episode:

Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

profit911.biz

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Jim Dew specializes in working with owner/founder entrepreneurs. Most financial advisors and wealth management people will work with anyone who has money, but there are unique problems and opportunities facing entrepreneurs.

• His ideal client is a business owner or entrepreneur who is doing more than $1 million EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization). A company that has revenue and profits is where Jim can really add value.
• Jim builds virtual family offices for entrepreneurs, which is the wealth management solution that the billionaire club uses to manage their wealth. A family office is where a billionaire will simply hire all the needed tax, legal, insurance, and investment professionals and bring them under payroll for the family.
• Jim learned about the process from a billionaire family that was willing to show him the processes and he decided to help entrepreneurs achieve similar results.
• Every entrepreneur needs to protect, manage, and grow their wealth. Jim helps entrepreneurs in nine different areas under those categories by coordinating the different professionals involved.
• In most situations, the entrepreneur in the middle trying to manage those relationships is the weakest link. Jim’s company takes a central role so that all the players are collaborating and coordinating together to achieve better results.
• Most financial advisors either get paid for selling products or managing assets. Jim’s company does neither, they represent the entrepreneur and negotiate on their behalf.
• Jim believes that the incentives need to be aligned because they drive where you get advice and the results you get. This is why all of Jim’s advisors are compensated with salary and bonuses, this way they are aligned with the client’s needs in a true fiduciary relationship.
• Covid-19 has affected entrepreneurs all over the world. If you were in the right space your business exploded, like Peleton did. If you were in the wrong space though your business suffered. Jim’s company has been helping clients navigate the situation no matter what they are facing.
• One of the lessons that Jim’s clients have learned is that you have to know your numbers, that’s how you navigate hard times like this.
• Entrepreneurs need a great team with a CPA and a tax attorney who are proactively looking at their situation and coming up with great ideas.
• The tax code is complicated and set up in a way that an experienced tax planner on your team is a major asset. You won’t go to jail for screwing up the deductions, the danger is in hiding revenue. There are a number of strategies that you can use to minimize your taxes, but you have to be careful and have smart people on your team to help you implement them.
• Jim was raised by parents that went through the depression, so he learned to be very frugal with money. He had always been idealistic and was good at math and science, so Jim started off as a public school teacher. He did that for five years and learned two important lessons from the experience. The first is that he loved making a difference and helping people, and the second was that he couldn’t work in a broken system. Jim got into financial services and after getting into an argument with the manager of the firm Jim went on the path of starting his own company.
• The basic fundamental truth is that entrepreneurs get rich by being concentrated in a business, but you stay rich by being diversified outside that business.
• Every great investor has a discipline. Jim starts with where his clients are now and then comes up with a strategy to get to where they want to go. This allows them to quickly evaluate investment opportunities.
• Often people look at election results and other economic indicators to try to determine their investment strategy. When it comes to investing, you want to invest on probabilities, not possibilities. Every politician promises a number of changes, but they rarely get turned into law without considerable changes.
• Cash is historically the worst-performing asset class. Try not to get worked up about apocalyptic predictions about the market and avoid trying to predict the future of the market.
• Focus on your business. Don’t think you’re going to get rich from Bitcoin or Tesla stock. Your business is what is going to make you rich and improve your lifestyle.

Mentioned in this episode:

Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

Beyond a Million: The Entrepreneur’s Playbook for Expanding Wealth, Freedom and Time - https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Million-Entrepreneurs-Playbook-Expanding/dp/1619618222

dewwealth.com

makerichreal.com

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Tech led the markets in 2020, and without that sector, the S&P and DOW would likely have been flat or down. Roland sees tech as continuing to be strong in 2021, in particular areas like software as a service, the internet of things, augmented and virtual reality, as well as tech enablement.

• There will also be several lasting changes as a result of Covid because of the increased rate of adoption of technologies that became a requirement to conduct business.
• We are going to see less of a budget for fulfillment, content delivery, and meetings. We’ll also see a reduction in travel expenses as meeting people and having conversations via Zoom becomes the standard.
• As a service provider, it’s going to be important to be able to deliver your services by embracing the technologies that your customers have been forced to adopt. You need to be on board with the evolution of how we are doing business or you will lose out to competitors that are.
• If you can humanize the existing tech experience within the tax resolution space it will be a major advantage.
• New platforms are always coming up. Clubhouse went from 3500 members at the beginning of 2020 to 1 million at the end of 2020. It’s important to be on places like Clubhouse, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, and platforms like them even if it’s not a lead source for your business. The credibility of meeting your customers where they are and joining the conversation is going to be very important for the growth of practices going forward.
• Technology platforms can be even better than meeting clients in real life because it’s easier to control the environment. Instead of the standard presentation, platforms like Zoom can go beyond just broadcasting.
• Building a studio or investing in some basic equipment can take your ability to create virtual events to the next level, and if used well can pay off handsomely.
• In 2020, Roland closed over $2 million in sales at a completely virtual event by using Zoom breakout rooms.
• Hospitality will make a comeback in the future but it will require those businesses to increase the level of their service, if they don’t it’s not likely that they will survive.
• Tax practices are notorious for not communicating with their clients. It’s crucial to keep the lines of communication open and a lot of practices are starting to realize this.
• Not only should you be communicating, but you should be communicating to start a conversation so that you create an interaction that can lead to a sale. Breathe some personality into your communications and that can lead to generating 2x-3x the revenue.
• Measuring your Net Promoter Score and Customer Satisfaction is very valuable information that businesses should be paying attention to. If you’re open to it, that information can reveal where your business is falling short.
• An existing customer is worth 9 times more than a new customer, if you’re not focused on your existing customers you’re missing a huge opportunity. The magic is the people already within your tribe.
• Get someone to do your content for you, but answer all your messages personally.
• You must take massive action if you want to see big results.

Mentioned in this episode:

Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

Roland Frasier's Business Lunch Podcast - businesslunchpodcast.com

facebook.com/RolandFrasierPage

twitter.com/rolandfrasier

linkedin.com/in/rolandfrasier

Roland Frasier's YouTube Channel - youtube.com/channel/UC9cUjWtqawvdM6K632PvGow

instagram.com/rolandfrasier

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Raised in poverty and surrounded by dysfunction, Andre Norman gravitated towards his neighborhood gang and eventually found himself facing over 100 years in a maximum security prison. Andre had an epiphany in prison, chose to seek success through education and achieved what everyone thought was impossible.

[2:00] As the Ambassador of Hope, Andre was instrumental in ending the protests in Ferguson, MO and is now a highly sought after motivational speaker and consultant.

[3:10] Mentors were the one thing that changed the direction of Andre’s life. Andre found a mentor in prison who challenged him to be a better person which put him on a different path. He took that challenge and redesigned his life in a way to work towards making himself and other people better instead of fighting.

[5:55] Being told what to do can sometimes lead to resistance. It all depends on who’s bringing you the message. It’s not what’s being said, it’s who is saying it. Andre didn’t see his mentors as competition so he was much more receptive to what they were trying to tell him.

[7:50] When you have people that you revere and respect and they speak to you, you hear what they have to say differently. It took time for Andre to change, but he stuck to it for eight years while in prison and put in the work.

[9:45] The underlying issue for people suffering from addiction is that they are being told what to do without the necessary connection. When Andre is helping people deal with addiction, he wants to know what they are running from because there is always a pain that is driving the addictive behavior.

[12:20] Oftentimes the addict is not being heard, they’re being treated, and what they need is to connect with another person who cares.

[13:25] It’s not always a traumatic experience that causes issues for people. Andre tells the story of how something simple led to his son feeling slighted and how without a conversation about the problem, it could have led to years of disconnection.

[17:15] It doesn’t always have to be catastrophic, it just has to feel that way to them. Check in periodically with the people you care about, especially if you feel tension in the relationship. Something simple, like making a promise and not delivering on it, can be the beginning of the end if you don’t address it.

[19:15] What you want from the world is what you should give to the world. You reap what you sow. Be a vessel and pass on what you know can help other people. The question is “Are you willing to pass your knowledge on?”

[25:15] Anyone can connect with Andre by sending him an email. Even if Andre can’t help someone directly, he’s usually willing and able to talk and point people in the right direction. For people suffering from addiction, he focuses on finding out what the problem is, not what people think the problem is. It’s common for parents to see the symptom of the problem and want to fix that, but if you fix the ‘why’ the problem will correct itself.

[28:10] As a child, Andre had negative influences in his life that taught him exactly how not to act. His father taught him it’s okay to quit, because he walked out on his family, and it’s okay to hit people, because he was violent towards Andre’s mother. He had a number of great people in his life but the negativity overwhelmed the positivity and put him on a bad life path.

[31:00] Through the lessons that Andre has lived, you can draw the line to your own life. Those lessons are applicable beyond the world of addiction and trauma. Think about what he is saying and look for areas in your life to which you can apply Andre’s experience.

[34:05] The biggest hurdles for people making a positive change in their lives are denial and courage. Nothing will change until the unspoken is said. Until you can admit that you have an issue, your life will remain the same. Andre started off by taking an inventory of who he was and began addressing each of those things one at a time.

[35:45] Write down who and what you are. Make it external because the reason that you are not succeeding right now are the things on that list. Andre went down his list and as he checked them off, the burden he felt became lighter and he could see life with a greater clarity. Write down what you want to grow into and then put in the work to make that happen.

[38:20] Are you walking around with cement shoes on? The world is passing you by and you won’t be able to participate because you’re unwilling to do the work to remove your burden.

[39:35] The truth is that you can make a positive impact on the world. Get educated, build a company as big as possible, and help as many people as possible. The more you go out of your way to help others, the more that will come back to you in a way that you couldn’t imagine was possible.

[41:25] Make friends with people for no reason other than to be connected. The goal of the world is to make it a better place. When you’re at a funeral the things we should be doing in our lives becomes clear, do those things. Don’t be the person who dies with regrets.

[44:20] Covid-19 has forced people to stand still. Technology has changed the world in recent years but one positive result of the pandemic is forcing people to slow down and live life more consciously. The small things have taken on a greater significance.

Mentioned in this episode:

Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

Ambassador of Hope: Turning Poverty and Prison into a Purpose-Driven Life

andrenorman.com

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The Tax Resolution Success Summit Virtual 2020 is the country’s only direct response marketing, sales, and business mastery event that’s 100% devoted to starting or scaling a lucrative tax resolution business. This is a full-on live studio production where we’ll do everything we planned to do in-person. Many of our expert speakers will be in studio with me to deliver high-value, actionable content that you can implement immediately. We will have a vibrant, FUN, educational, and interactive networking event including a Virtual Exhibit Hall with all our great sponsors too. You’ll get your questions answered live, by me, and our other experts, as if you were right there in the room with us.

Check it out here www.rozstrategies.com/virtual

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Paul Colligan has switched seats with Michael for this episode of the podcast to ask some very important questions about the future of the tax resolution industry.

[1:15] How do tax resolution practitioners get ready when we don’t have an idea what’s going to happen in the world of taxes over the next 12 months? Michael has experienced three major downturns during his 22 years in the business, and in his experience the years following a downturn are major opportunities for tax resolution.

[2:40] Pre Covid-19, there were 13.2 million people already identified by the IRS as owing taxes. There will probably be another 10 to 20 million more collection cases coming up over the next few years.

[3:15] We are going to see the largest influx of payroll taxes cases coming down the pipe very soon. The IRS is the only creditor in the world that can pierce the corporate veil without a court order, and this may lead to an additional Trust Fund recovery penalty tax case for every payroll case.

[5:00] There were 30 million people that were planning to file on April 15th, but the filing date keeps getting pushed back. What’s going to happen to those people who won’t have the money to pay their taxes once it finally comes due?

[5:55] The IRS isn’t closed; they’ve just reduced their activities, but when July 15th comes around and everything goes back to business as usual, all hell is going to break loose.

[7:10] Michael teaches his members to never take their foot off the marketing gas pedal. When things get slow that’s when you should double down on your marketing to keep your pipeline full. When the floodgates open people are going to be turning online for solutions and if they can’t find you, they can’t retain you.

[8:40] It’s more important than ever to have an online presence right now. Now is also the time to negotiate rates with radio companies as Michael hasn’t seen advertising rates this low for 18 years. Radio stations have inventory to sell and will be looking for ways to raise revenue so incredible deals will be available over the next couple of months.

[11:10] The government is hungry and they’re going to be closing in soon. The tax resolution specialists that embrace marketing and make it the overarching umbrella for everything they do are the ones who are going to profit.

[11:45] Most CPAs and enrolled agents believe that if they went to the best school that it guarantees success, but it doesn’t. In today’s world, marketing is what guarantees success.

[12:35] If you’re in business, you’re in sales whether you realize it or not. Many people have a mindset issue around their business and marketing. They believe their deliverables are primary, but they have to come secondary to the marketing if they want to create wealth and become rich.

[13:15] One of the major opportunities for tax resolution specialists lies in calling their past business clients and helping them understand what assistance and relief programs are available to them right now. It’s also the perfect time to help your clients do some financial planning in reverse and put them into the best situation they can be to minimize their tax settlement. There are a number of tips and tricks that you can do right now with your clients because you have the luxury of time.

[17:05] There are a number of opportunities for accountants to help their clients get what amounts to essentially free money.

[18:30] The SBA/PPE is not a long-term business strategy. If you haven’t done it yet the window of opportunity is closing.

[19:55] The effects of the 2008 recession on Michael’s business lasted for three years. The same is likely to happen this time around. IRS problems have the habit of percolating over time. It may take some time for them to find you, but eventually they will and you need to be prepared.

[21:40] Michael is telling people that focus on tax preparation work to begin looking for additional streams of income. Tax preparation was already commodified before Covid-19, and if it’s your only stream of revenue you need to expand your offerings now.

[22:50] Michael helps licensed professionals start a tax resolution business from scratch, or if they already have a business, how to grow it to the level they’ve been hoping to achieve. He teaches the whole business of tax resolution from generating leads to closing clients and delivering the service.

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Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

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Angela and Michael have known each other for a long time and they’ve been referring clients to each other for years.

[2:50] Good credit is one of the best assets you can have. The US has a unique credit system that allows you to leverage your cash position and grow your wealth.

[4:10] Angela works with both businesses and consumers but she spends a lot of her time teaching business owners to separate their personal credit from their business credit. There are protective measures that business owners can take to keep the debt of their business from affecting their personal credit.

[5:50] Angela had been on her own since she was 16 where she was working three jobs, one of which was as a cashier as a bank. She quickly moved up to working as an underwriter where she was exposed to a number of people who needed credit help, which she would provide. Ironically, helping people with their credit and being one of the top underwriters in the company was also the reason she was fired.

[9:45] What are the consequences to a consumer when it comes to credit? The end result is generally very simple, the lower the credit score the more interest that person will pay which will end up costing them considerably more money. When it comes to big purchases, a low FICO score can cost someone thousands of dollars.

[11:55] Not everyone has the same credit history, so improving your credit score isn’t a standard process. There are a few basic steps that Angela walks her clients through that improve their position and allows the algorithm to take over.

[14:00] Good credit practices shouldn’t be a secret but oftentimes, even when someone knows the steps, they will still need help with the process. That’s why people hire Angela. When she works with a client, she creates a custom strategy for them for their team to execute on their behalf.

[16:15] There are a lot of companies that do credit repair, but they are more interested in increasing the number of customers rather than improving customer’s results. There are easy ways for consumers to dispute the information directly with the credit bureaus but that only goes so far without personally working with someone at the company.

[18:15] Credit repair really involves you taking the time to understand the root cause and going directly to the creditor and working with them to remediate the problem. There is a lot of work that goes into how Angela assists her clients which is why she gets such great results for them.

[20:00] Angela was asked to be a mentor by a company that sold credit repair software where she discovered the general problem with the industry, which was that the main priority of people getting into the business was money, not on improving the customer’s lives.

[21:45] Every bank has a relationship with a credit bureau which is why they will only usually work with one or two instead of all three.

[23:00] The way most credit repair companies work is very frustrating to people because the derogatory records often come back when not dealt with properly. In the end you get what you pay for.

[24:30] Angela’s ideal clients are students who need to know how to better use their credit. Most people don’t understand their credit, and they’re afraid of what they don’t know. The best clients are the ones that are ready to learn from what they are going through.

[27:50] Clients with student loan debt are on the rise. One of Angela’s passion projects is a financial literacy course that teaches young adults how to understand what they are signing up for in terms of student loans and how to minimize the interest they end up paying.

[29:55] If your credit has fallen since the advent of Covid-19 there are a number of programs available that can help. It takes a little work but there are ways to defer payments to your creditors that can make the situation a bit better. The trouble is we have never been through something like this and the best option is to reach out and communicate with people. Anyone who is in a situation where they are losing income and are concerned about the future needs to sit down and come up with a plan on contacting their creditors and vendors and see what they can work out.

[34:30] For a typical client, Angela will work for them for an average of 120 days, so if you’re planning a major purchase in the near future, now is the time to talk to her. There are a number of ways she can help you prepare your credit and save money.

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Conquer Credit Management
Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

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Larry and Michael go back nearly twenty years. Larry began the American Society of Tax Problem Solvers to specifically foster education in the area of tax resolution. It’s a place where practitioners can learn and also meet other people in the same industry as them.

[4:10] What is tax problem resolution? Simply put, if someone has a problem with the IRS, a tax resolution specialist can come in and solve that problem.

[6:35] Larry’s company was initially doing tax resolution work whenever it came along in between tax preparation cases. At that time, tax resolution wasn’t really a thing that people could do professionally but the jobs they did motivated them because it was difficult for people to get the answers.

[8:15] Larry remembers that the first tax resolution clients he worked with had come from other tax preparation companies, how in the process he learned how different the work was and how surprisingly good at it they were.

[9:50] Larry was thinking the IRS would waive penalties in light of the coronavirus pandemic but probably not push back the filing date. At this point every firm is playing it by ear as the situation is developing and changing each day. Larry’s company has decided to turn every tax return into a dropoff case in order to avoid getting his team sick.

[13:10] Out of adversity comes opportunity. All of the companies that have been resisting adapting to the updates in technology are now looking at integrating it as quickly as they can in order to stay in business. Working remotely is a real possibility for most knowledge workers, and that includes tax resolution and preparation.

[15:35] Software companies and the IRS are turning tax preparation and tax compliance work into a commodity. There are a number of free ways for people to file their taxes so the compliance side of the practice is almost required to stay in business. Tax resolution can’t be commoditized.

[18:50] The IRS was decimated years ago but Congress recently appropriated over $300 million for a new enforcement fund, which indicates an increase in enforcement over the next few years. Data mining is going to be a new technique for the IRS that is going to really boost their ability to collect taxes.

[22:50] Tax resolution specialists are not in the business of helping people cheat, they are not tax protesters. They are in business to help people resolve problems.

[23:40] Pricing and fees are a major advantage of tax resolution services over regular tax preparation or compliance work. The same amount of energy goes into a $500 tax compliance case as it does for a $5000 tax resolution case. The deferred revenue is also a big benefit of this kind of work.

[30:30] Now is the perfect time to master the skill of closing a deal with a client over the phone. It doesn’t have to replace what you’re already doing, you can do it in addition to having clients come into the office if that’s how you currently do things, but now you have a great excuse to implement phone closings.

[32:30] There are 14 million people in the crosshairs of the IRS’ sights right now, and about 7 to 8 million are classified as non-filers, many of whom tax practitioners look down on as potential clients. Making a judgement on those people is a big mistake. If they understood the potential of tax resolution work and what it’s worth, they would reconsider how they approach these types of clients. All they have to do is understand the rules and build up their confidence.

[40:50] If you want to learn the nuts and bolts of how to resolve a client’s tax resolution problem, go to the American Society Of Tax Problem Solvers. If you want to learn how to get the client in the first place, go to rozstrategies.com.

[41:50] One thing that many tax practitioners don’t realize about tax resolution is that the deadlines are more flexible, and when you combine that with the ability to really help people solve some intractable problems while making more money, it becomes a very attractive option for anyone considering the business right now.

[44:15] Tax problems affect all areas of life and the vast majority of them are the result of people’s difficult life events that got them into trouble. Tax resolution work is a great way to help people, help yourself, and have a much more comfortable practice.

[49:30] The best way to get started in the tax resolution business is to come to Larry’s two and a half day bootcamp. All of that information can be found on the American Society Of Tax Problem Solvers website.

[51:25] Michael and Larry have both seen the two most recent economic upheavals in living memory and both times were some of the highest revenue periods in the business. The next year is likely going to be a similar opportunity for tax resolution specialists.

[50:50] How the client is going to pay you is up to them, but when going up against the IRS, people get very creative and resourceful. Where they get the money to pay you is not your problem. Just tell them what the fee is and if they come up with it, do a good job for them.

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American Society Of Tax Problem Solvers
Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

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Christine and Michael go back all the way to 1998, when Michael was buying huge numbers of names from TaxLienLists.net. Christine started out in 1996 while working for a trucking company, where a friend shared the latest technological advance with her later known as the World Wide Web. One of the family members came up with the idea of collecting government records online, and this developed into a business selling that information to CPA’s, enrolled agents, and tax attorneys. In February, Christine will have been with the company for 21 years.

[7:00] Tax collection enforcement tends to swing back and forth like a pendulum, and it appears that we’re in another swing towards more enforcement with the IRS receiving an additional $200+ million in funding.

[8:40] In the late 90’s, the enforcement agents were a little overzealous. In many ways the IRS was ruining the lives of regular people because they got behind on their taxes. It was around that time that the IRS had to change their image and try to be a bit less intimidating. This change was groundbreaking for tax resolution businesses and that’s when Christine’s company really started to take off.

[12:40] Levies and liens are the two main drivers of clients to tax resolution businesses, so an increase in those means a lot of additional business for us. The IRS benefits immensely from tax resolution companies because they help collect on their behalf, which is one of the reasons that it’s such a good business to be in.

[16:00] There was a major decrease in lien filings starting in 2009, but even with that happening, Christine was still seeing plenty of successful tax resolution companies taking off.

[17:45] Federal tax liens for 2019 will likely be around half a million, similar to the last two years. Christine’s company has been able to combine the list of federal tax liens with the individual state’s tax liens, which has enabled tax resolution companies to market directly to those people. Marketing to state tax liens is a great way to get to the clients’ federal problem and get ahead of the competition. Marketing is about numbers: when the number of federal tax liens is low, go after the list of state tax liens too.

[20:00] A lien is public record, which is why federal tax liens can be compiled into a list, unlike levies which are not. There is no set standard for individual local courthouses where liens are filed. What this means is that Christine’s company has to be very flexible when collecting records.

[24:10] As a list broker, Christine collects the same information that the IRS has on file. Name, mailing address, the type of lien, and the dollar amount of the lien that was filed against them for that year. They always remind their clients that the information on the lists are just the tip of the iceberg and most people with a current lien against them owe more.

[27:30] The information Christine collects is really geared towards direct marketing, but there are companies that also use email to reach out to prospects. One thing to keep in mind is that you should expect to mail multiple times to get the best results from your marketing. If you do the mailing right with an accurate and fresh list, and a good mail piece, you should be able to get a 0.5% to 1% response rate.

[32:10] Part of the service includes a personalized letter containing the prospect’s information, as well as brochures, business cards, and other marketing pieces that you can add to the package. Christine breaks down the math on purchasing a list with 1000 names on it, where with a good closer most tax resolution companies should be able to close 50% of the people who call in to their business. The typical ROI for this kind of marketing is anywhere from 400% to 2000%.

[36:00] TaxLienLists.net services less than 55 customers nationwide and they have limited the number of clients for years, but now, with the increase in the number of tax liens, the doors are open.

[37:30] Follow-up mailings can improve those numbers even further and potentially bump the response rate up to 1% to 2%, but you have to keep in mind that no marketing list is perfect. There will always be a part of the list that’s too old or inaccurate. Part of the strategy is to record the undelivered mail as it comes back and to remove those addresses from follow-up mailings.

[43:45] Christine’s company tracks the results of their best customers over the years and what they’ve found is that follow up mailings produce paying customers. When the customer calls you, they are ready to do business. When you start follow-up mailings, a lot of the competition drops off because they only mail once.

[45:00] Sometimes a mailing can generate no calls initially, but 9 months down the road the prospects start reaching out. Follow-up mailings are seeds that you have to plant and harvest later. Always include a business card or brochure in every letter so when the prospect is ready to call, they can reach you.

[49:00] 2020 is going to be a great year for tax resolution businesses. When the IRS shut down in 2018, Christine’s company started making changes to their business and adjusted their prices and services. It was around that time that the IRS hired thousands of new agents and the Trump administration increased the budget of the IRS by $286 million, all geared towards enforcement. This all indicates a massive increase in business for tax resolution practitioners.

[56:30] One of the major changes in the IRS for 2020 is their declared focus on businesses avoiding their payroll taxes. With all of that, Christine’s company started positioning themselves for growth.

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TaxLienLists.net
Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

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The godfather of tax resolution is the featured guest of the podcast today. Robert McKenzie is the guy that leading attorneys and CPAs turn to when they have criminal tax defense cases they need help with. Robert has a unique perspective into the IRS since he worked as a collections officer and literally wrote the book when it comes to representation before the IRS.

[4:15] Robert started his career as a revenue officer of the IRS. While working at the IRS, Robert completed his law school education and immediately went into his own practice doing tax resolution which he’s been practicing for the past 40 years.

[6:00] While at the IRS in 1976, Robert was incentivized to seize 30+ businesses and homes because that was how success was measured by the IRS before reforms were passed. Since 1998, the number of seizures has drastically decreased.

[9:15] In the last 8 years, the IRS has had its budget and headcount decimated, particularly in the enforcement area. This has lead to fewer enforcement actions and less revenue officers in total.

[13:00] This is a little counterproductive in terms of government revenue because a skilled revenue officer generates $11 in revenue for every $1 spent. Right now it’s a good time to be a tax cheat in this country because the odds of being caught have never been lower.

[13:50] The IRS received a 2.6% increase in budget in 2019 which means they can now bring on some new people. The new commissioner, Charles Rettig, is one of the first tax lawyers to get the job.

[17:35] Levies were up 8% in 2018, the first increase in over a decade. Robert believes that this indicates a trend of increased enforcement in the near future. The IRS is taking revenue officers from underutilized states and placing them in other areas that are lacking staffing to help go after higher dollar actions.

[21:00] The reality is the IRS has a lot of cases in queue that are just waiting to be assigned to someone in the field and they are not having liens filed. The more they can have people to receive cases out of the queue, the more liens we’re going to see.

[24:30] Sometimes it can be hard to change someone’s attitude if the IRS hasn’t started looking at their case. If you want to be delinquent in this country, you would want to live in a big city where the staff to enforce is at the lowest point. In Dallas, the IRS wasn’t going after anyone that owed less than a million dollars.

[27:50] There was a study released earlier in 2019 that shows about 83% of Americans comply with their taxes, but we are auditing 0.58% of all tax returns filed. They estimate that the government is losing over $300 billion in revenue from people not properly reporting their income.

[30:40] Over 43% of all the 1040 audits in 2019 were done on low dollar amounts returns. These were automated audits because auditing a high net worth individual requires a person to handle the task. Overall, 97% of people who are making over a million dollars a year will never see the IRS.

[33:40] Who cut the IRS budgets? Politicians. Who donates the most to politicians? Rich people. Who has the most to benefit by an IRS that’s not properly funded? Rich people. They cheat more and have more money they could be forced to pay if they were ever audited.

[34:10] The IRS has been engaging in a series of summons with the clearing houses that deal with cryptocurrencies and have been looking more closely at people making those transactions. For some people, that could mean potential criminal prosecution if the numbers are large enough.

[37:30] The statute defining an employee at the federal level has been established since the 1970’s. Congress is not likely to pass legislation dealing with the gig economy similar to the one recently passed in California, since industries have varying definitions as to who qualifies as an employee.

[41:45] Customer service from the IRS has improved in recent years. Their answer rate is only around 70% and even when they do connect with someone, the IRS only answers around 70% of those questions correctly. The FAIR Act is an effort to improve the IRS’s customer service but we’ll see how it goes.

[45:00] Now is a good time to get into the tax resolution business. There is going to be more audits and collections in the coming years which means more potential customers for your business. You will require proper training and an understanding of how to market your business if you want it to last.

[50:45] The IRS has said that they are coming after syndicated conservation easements. Conservation easements have become a scheme that some people have used as an abusive tax shelter and the IRS has made it known that they are going after those people.

[52:35] Captive insurance companies are another target of the IRS, particularly where something is insured against a risk that will never happen.

[53:30] Employment taxes in the collection arena is very high. Not paying employment taxes is a particular focus that they IRS is working on and increased enforcement in this area is going to lead to increased business for tax resolution specialists.

[54:45] The IRS is a special creditor, they are one of the only entities that can pierce the corporate veil and assess the trust fund without a court order. Not paying employment taxes is viewed by the government as theft against the employee.

Mentioned in this episode:
Robert E. McKenzie, Chicago Tax Attorney
Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

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Jeffrey Schneider has a tax and accounting service, but he also has a separate company that helps taxpayers with tax resolution and solving their IRS problems.

[3:40] When Michael presented the Audit Protection Plan, the first thing that Jeffrey thought was “free money.”

[4:30] Michael originally got into the tax audit protection business when he was running his tax resolution business. He was running a separate business of his own selling audit protection plans that generated over $9 million in revenue over three years. It was an opt-in plan at first.

[5:30] In an opt-in plan, you have to choose to take the option to join the program. With an opt-out plan, you are telling the client they are enrolled and they have to choose to opt out. The way that Jeffrey structures his audit protection is opt-out.

[6:45] Since implementing the plan in 2017, Jeffrey offers the plan to every single client but his practice is a bit atypical. About 80% of the people that turned it down were over the age of 75. He still has a very high acceptance rate for his clients and the program has generated over five figures every single year so far. The retention for the program has been over 96%.

[9:40] Jeffrey made more money this tax season than in the past because of two factors. The first is that he has raised his fees across the board and the second is that many of his clients are self employed in some form and those clients are automatically enrolled in the Gold plan.

[10:50] The Audit Protection Plan covers three major things: responding to notices after you file the return, audit representation in the event of a full-blown audit, and tax identity theft. It’s also customizable and has three tiers of membership.

[13:40] When Jeffrey sends out the engagement letter, he includes a nicely designed brochure that explains the plan and conveys its benefits. He positions it as a cheap insurance plan. The brochure is also present in his waiting room and conference room so new clients always see it. Since it’s automatically included on the invoice, he has had an average 90% acceptance rate.

[15:50] The Audit Protection Plan system includes all the documents you need to implement the plan in your tax resolution business.

[17:25] You’re charging them on the invoice but it’s not mandatory. If they opt out, the charge is removed. People make mistakes, and the plan is an easy way for your clients to protect themselves from small but costly errors. The plan is also easily adjusted to whatever your existing fees are. The more you charge for your services, the more you can charge for the Audit Protection Plan.

[22:45] For the first two years, Jeffrey kept the plan priced at exactly what Michael recommended, but he raised his prices until people complained. The value of the plan still far exceeds the expense for the client.

[24:00] You make so much more money by having the plan in place than not having the plan and then charging people separately. Before the plan, Jeffrey would often work for free providing similar services but he tracked his accounts very carefully. The costs involved in handling the services were not even close to the amount of revenue generated by offering the protection plan.

[27:15] You are not splitting the proceeds of the plan with anyone, unlike many out of the box tax software programs.

[28:05] Jeffrey is going to make about $12,000 net revenue off the 110 tax returns he will do this year. Imagine how much you could make if you had a business that processed 200 or 300 tax returns.

[30:30] Jeffrey’s Gold plan includes a couple of extra features beyond what Michael recommends, including additional schedules and expedited response times.

[31:30] The people who don’t want the plan are required to sign a client disclosure form that explains they will pay the hourly rate for any work done outside the scope of the return. Jeffrey is getting paid 100% of the time whenever he does any work outside the preparation of a return. He also includes that in his engagement letter.

[33:45] If there is any place where it is particularly hard to sell the protection plan, Florida would be it. Jeffrey has found tremendous success with the Audit Protection Plan, even so. It’s a simple program that’s easy to implement and very effective, even in a difficult market.

[38:50] Jeffrey is probably in one of the toughest markets in terms of professional fees. If he can implement this system, then you can too. You’re clients want you to protect them. Notices and identity theft are the main selling points for Jeffrey’s business.

Mentioned in this episode:
SFS Tax Problem Solutions
Free Online Master Class
Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

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Ben Golden lives in Thomasville, Alabama, which is a town of only 1800 people. He sold his practice in Florida five years ago and purchased a construction company, but he wanted to get back into the business, just not the compliance side. He saw Michael’s program, but had some major concerns about living in a rural area.

[4:00] Ben’s original practice did the things that a traditional accounting firm would do other than auditing. Buying the construction company was a lucky move for Ben but he couldn’t get away from his love of helping people with their taxes, he just wanted to get out of the compliance game.

[5:45] When Ben got out of college he worked for a regional firm in San Francisco for a few years before moving back to Alabama and buying his first accounting practice. He grew that business pretty quickly, but the trouble came when he agreed to sign a client’s payroll account.

[6:50] The client didn’t pay his payroll taxes and the agent at the IRS failed to follow procedures correctly and started chasing Ben to cover the $170,000 in taxes the client owed. Ben looked into the procedures and learned that she had acted inappropriately, which led him to push back on the IRS and speak to the agent’s territory manager.

[10:00] The final result was that the agent was pulled off the case and given a 30-day suspension. The client subsequently went out of business and only paid $35,000 of the total amount. Ben didn’t have to pay anything that he was originally assessed for.

[11:30] If we see something that’s not fair, we stand up and fight. What the IRS tried to do to Ben was criminal and is an example of what makes tax resolution and IRS representation so important.

[12:20] The IRS essentially violated all of Ben’s privacy rights, which is why he was compelled to pursue the issue. Ben has also had experience having his tax identity stolen a few years prior.

[15:00] When Ben purchased the Tax Domination system, he wanted to plan and set his company up for the greatest amount of success he could. He studied the material in the program for several months before even starting his business.

[17:40] Ben landed his first client at the end of 2017 and it was a $25,000 case. That first client proved to Ben that he could make some real money in this business while also helping people who really needed it.

[19:30] This past August was Ben’s biggest month ever with over $100,000 in revenue. He projects that he will generate about $300,000 by the end of his second full year in business. Ben operates completely remotely so all communication with clients is done over the internet.

[20:50] Ben has been focused on the lessons in the Tax Resolution system and implementing them the same way as Michael said to do, with some minor modifications due to the nature of the remote work. For Ben, the number one thing is to take a proven strategy and replicate it.

[23:00] As an enrolled agent or a CPA, you don’t have to be licensed in all 50 states to operate all over the country. You just have to be in good standing in your home state. Ben currently has clients in Hawaii, California, and Alaska. The key is to have a good plan on how you want clients to come in.

[24:00] Pricing is very important, it should be done in a way that you show the value of what you do instead of billing per hour. The fee schedule is a major asset.

[26:30] Communication and setting expectations correctly are crucial to a positive customer experience, even if you can’t get that customer the greatest result. Clients feeling abandoned is a common problem in the industry. You need to communicate with your clients, especially when there is nothing going on with their case.

[28:30] Locate your bottlenecks and do your best to clear them away. Do your best to teach every client that you work with that you work hard for them. Being a specialized technician with specialized knowledge doesn’t guarantee success any longer.

[31:00] When Ben started his practice in Florida, he was charging $35 an hour for his work because he didn’t feel like he was worth more than that. Now the education he’s received has given him the confidence to charge higher rates that actually reflect the value of what he’s providing.

[34:30] There are so many people that need help. There’s enough business for everybody since everyone in this country knows someone with a tax problem. The business involves hard work so bring the passion and you will find success.

Mentioned in this episode:
Golden Tax Relief
Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

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Chris Micklatcher started off as a lawyer in Portland, Maine, focusing on estate planning and tax work. The transition to tax resolution came 30 years ago when a client came into his office that needed some help with his back taxes. Back then, it was very easy to find new clients, but now the market for the business has completely changed.

[5:40] There are around 3,300 counties in the United States, and for some of them, when the IRS files a tax lien, you will be able to find that info on their website. You can also buy a list from a list broker of federal tax liens.

[6:55] Chris met Michael and signed up to his Tax Domination program in Orlando. Prior to that, Chris did tax resolution work in addition to general law work, but it wasn’t a focus of the business. He wanted to do something he loved, and he found that people really appreciated the tax resolution service, which is very different from the experience of working with law clients.

[8:30] The tax resolution side of Chris’s business was around $5000 a month. After purchasing the Tax Domination program and coming into the mastermind group his tax resolution business has grown to $55,000 a month with additional deferred revenue each month as well.

[12:00] Chris has hired four employees to help with the workload and is now hoping to start retiring slowly, minimizing his work schedule over time. His team handles approximately $850,000 in yearly revenue.

[14:55] The first major lesson that Chris learned was putting the processes in place and understanding the value of his time. Before the program Chris never spent any time on marketing, he did most of that on the fly. Now he spends a minimum of half a day a week focusing on marketing and trying to think outside the box. Eliminating the deadwood in both clients and employees was the third major lesson. The concept of Chris’s employees selling his business for him changed the way he thought about hiring.

[16:45] When people call your office off of your marketing, the first impression they have is the person who answers the phone, and most practitioners don’t give that enough thought. Your front office people have to be very good. There is a big difference between a receptionist and an intake person.

[18:15] Non-Filers are some of the most common clients that Michael has been seeing, mainly due to the focus of his marketing efforts.

[20:35] This is the first time in seven years that the IRS has gotten over $300 million added to their budget from Congress. The pendulum is swinging back now to compliance enforcement.

[23:25] If Michael had to do it all over again, he would have set aside one day a week to plan his marketing strategy out. You also have to understand that you will be overloaded with business, so you need to be able to complete the business that comes into your office.

[24:30] Many practitioners believe that marketing is below them, and that once they open up shop, they deserve the business. For Michael, the problem was never marketing, it was delegating the work to an employee. The key thing is being able to hire the right people and being able to delegate in confidence.

[26:15] You want to put yourself out there as a tax resolution expert because everyone thinks an accountant is a tax resolution expert as well, but that usually leads to a bad experience for the customer. There are three distinct areas of taxes: tax planning, tax preparation, and tax resolution. You can do all three, but the way you present your business matters.

[27:45] You need to brand yourself because it will put you into a position of authority. Tax resolution in the only field of taxes where you are solving a big problem which is why it’s the most lucrative and profitable. Resolution is here to stay whereas planning and preparation are slowly being automated and commoditized.

[30:15] You can succeed as long as you like working hard. The ones that just want to get by are going to have a very tough time in this business.

[31:50] Most colleges teach branding and image marketing, but any business can be successful if they know how to do direct response marketing.

[34:05] Michael has a turnkey program that has been very valuable for Chris in his business and helped him understand the key areas that he needed to focus on to grow his tax resolution business.

Mentioned in this episode:
Fresh Start Tax Solutions
Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

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Ken Mullinax had always wanted to have his own business but was a bit of a late bloomer. He started going to college full-time while he was working full-time in his late 30’s and got his degree in accounting. His first step was to leave his factory job and become a revenue officer with the IRS. In many ways, working for the IRS was Ken’s best job and where he learned about collections and resolution.

[4:45] Ken left the IRS in 2014 to pursue tax resolution work with his wife Sandra. They worked through a national tax resolution company, but eventually that work dried up as the company was sold. It was around that time that Ken saw Michael’s ad for the Tax Resolution Training System.

[7:45] Most of the work Ken did at the IRS was with businesses. These experiences gave Ken valuable lessons that he now uses to help his current clients.

[11:50] There is no such thing as a hopeless IRS case. There is always something that can be done to help. Most CPA’s don’t know how to handle clients that are non-compliant.

[12:50] It doesn’t matter whether you owe the IRS $10,000 or $10 million; all that matters is what you can pay. Most of Ken’s clients pay nothing or very little. There are always ways to get the IRS to take the lowest dollar amount.

[14:15] There are 13.2 million people in the US that owe over $300 billion in taxes, and there is more work to go around than any one person can handle. The tax resolution industry is like a brotherhood with people who are more than happy to help each other.

[16:20] In Ken’s first year, he made about $90,000. At this point, a slow month is somewhere around $20,000, and Ken anticipates doing $60,000+ each month.

[18:55] Referral marketing is one of the biggest strategies that has made a huge difference to Ken’s business. The same CPA’s that Ken used to beat up when working for the IRS are the ones that now refer the majority of Ken’s cases.

[22:00] The next biggest lesson is learning what the service is worth. Ken initially doubted they could charge the prices listed in Michael’s course, but he took the leap and started raising their prices. Now they get paid more than they would have ever believed before. These people are in trouble, and they will pay you whatever they have to pay to get out of that trouble.

[27:00] Ken hasn’t had to deal with non-payment from clients yet, even once their case is closed. Pretty much everyone has money, and when they’re in a desperate situation, they will figure out a way to find the money and deal with their tax problem.

[28:30] The third major lesson is to not fear the marketing spend. You can determine how much you need to spend to land a client, and once you’ve got that number, it’s just a matter of investing the money. Most professionals don’t have a predictable system to generate clients, which is why they rely on hope. The practitioners who know those numbers are the ones who are the most successful and profitable.

[31:50] Each marketing channel works in different degrees. Sometimes they work for a while and then start to fade. So you have to change the message. Mailing prospects more than once is crucial.

[33:40] Effective hiring and networking are two more pro tips from the growth of Ken’s business. Now that Ken has an established reputation, the value of the networking has increased drastically.

[35:55] You need to have mentors in your life that can help you if you’re dabbling in tax resolution. All the resources that Michael provides are extremely valuable and will give you a huge boost in growing your practice. Social media posts have been Ken’s favorite thing he started doing in 2019.

[41:00] Ken recently made a funnel that captures names and emails using Clickfunnels and introduced his first video sales letter that has been performing very well.

[43:30] The main motivation for leaving the IRS was seeing powers of attorney that couldn’t properly defend their client and knowing that he could do better. That also coincided with a time when the president froze all pay and promotions, which certainly didn’t help.

[46:30] When you fix someone’s tax problem, now you’re their hero. You will end up working with that person for all their tax needs.

[48:20] If you think you need to know everything there is to know about the technical work of tax resolution before you start marketing for cases, you’ll never start marketing for cases.

[50:30] The only people that fail are the ones who thought the program is a get rich quick scheme. It’s not easy, but if you do the work, you will find success. If you’re thinking about making the leap, it’s time to jump in. In Ken’s opinion, this is the best job you can have because not only are you saving people’s financial lives, sometimes you’re saving their lives in general.

Mentioned in this episode:
Elite Tax Relief
479-763-1202 to call Ken
ken@elitetaxrelief.com
Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

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Patrick Sheehan graduated from law school in 1987 and his first job was for the IRS. He had plenty of responsibilities and treated the five years he worked there as additional education. When he turned 29 he left the IRS to teach at the law school he went to as well as started his own business helping people solve their IRS problems.

[3:50] There are three different divisions you can work at in the IRS; general litigation, tax litigation, and criminal litigation. The last two years Patrick worked at the IRS, he worked in the general litigation division, which really helped him later on with his business.

[5:30] Patrick’s acceptance rate with his clients is around 96%. It really depends on the work you do long before an offer is filed.

[6:40] Most people don’t realize, and that includes practitioners, that the IRS will subsidize the things that are necessary for the health and wealth of the individual. In many ways, you’re trying to do financial planning in reverse.

[8:30] Patrick relates a story of a husband and wife that was about to file jointly and what they did instead that saved them $50,000.

[9:30] The second thing that most successful people have is specialized knowledge. Patrick’s best year in business prior to working with Michael was in 2011 where he brought in $1.1 million, but each year after that the revenue steadily declined.

[11:35] Patrick attended the Austin seminar with a chip on his shoulder. He doubted that Michael would be able to show him something new after 28 years in the business but he had his mind blown. He knew how to do the work but Michael showed him how to market the business.

[13:25] If you solve a problem quickly you are not getting the value of what you’ve brought, and that’s where a flat fee has made a really big deal to Patrick’s bottom line.

[14:40] If Patrick doesn’t take on another client for 2019 his business is on track to do over $1.4 million in revenue. He will have also gone from 3 employees in 2018 to 9 professionals working for him by the end of this year.

[17:40] Patrick used to personally screen clients but he’s now taught his people to screen potential clients in 3 minutes or less. Flat fees and value billing has transformed Patrick’s business completely. Know the value you’re providing and don’t underestimate what you’re worth.

[21:10] Another pro tip is that nobody gets to see Patrick without reserving their spot without a credit card. A lot of people are afraid to implement this but it’s a way of properly positioning and pre-framing the client before they even meet with you.

[23:20] Google Adwords and multi-channel marketing campaigns are very important. When someone sees your business come up in multiple searches and multiple places it’s very powerful and builds credibility.

[24:20] If you want to get into the tax resolution business the Tax Domination Toolkit is super important. Getting access to a mastermind group is also a big asset. It can be overwhelming at first, but the key is to pick one thing and just do it, then work your way through the system.

[25:50] There are 13.2 million people who owe money to the IRS. There are plenty of clients for everybody. For Patrick that means sending his smaller cases to his former competitors so that when they get bigger cases that they can’t handle they hand them off to him.

Mentioned in this episode:
IRStroublesolvers.com
877-4-IRS-LAW
Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

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Jong Lee is a CPA and also has a doctorate in Business Administration. He’s been a teacher and has taught both accounting and taxes. Several years ago, he took on tax resolution in Los Angeles and that really opened his eyes. His previous experience as a forensic auditor tied right into his work in tax resolution.

[5:25] Jong had always wanted to get into tax resolution work, but he wasn’t sure how to actually do the work. When he got started, he didn’t even have an account description for tax resolution to charge his clients. Most of the time, he was doing tax resolution over the course of his regular tax work.

[7:00] It wasn’t until his staff noticed that Jong was begging instead of representing his clients that he made a change, and that was when Michael came into the picture.

[7:40] Now the average amount of tax resolution work that Jong takes on is somewhere around $80,000 per month.

[8:30] Self-confidence and taking away the fear of the IRS is one of the biggest benefits that Jong has gotten from learning the tax resolution system. One of the reasons that most practitioners don’t offer tax resolution services is because of fear. One of the keys to remember is that many of the people at the IRS don’t know what their own rules are and it’s your job as the tax resolution expert to know more than they do.

[11:05] Jong takes on an average of 20 cases per month and charges around $5,000 per case. 80% of his business comes from ads played on the radio and the remaining 20% comes from searches on Google. One of the fastest ways to grow a tax resolution business is through radio advertising.

[13:00] Don’t try to reinvent the wheel. Jong essentially follows the training system and marketing strategies laid out in the tax resolution training system.

[14:30] Jong has 4.5 people dedicated to the tax resolution side of his business and around 60% of his time is dedicated to doing the work. The rest of his time is really focused on marketing, sales, and finding new clients.

[15:50] There is a surprisingly large amount of tax resolution business out there and it’s one of the best services you can offer because it’s something that will completely change people’s financial lives. Once you do that, you’re going to have a client for life. The lifetime value of a tax resolution client is much higher than just the initial fee.

[18:35] The number one factor in divorce is financial difficulties. It impacts every decision you make and causes a ton of stress. Tax resolution is a service that saves people every day.

[19:50] Jong is a member of a group in the San Francisco area that’s similar to the BNI that has been a great source of referrals for his business.

[21:15] One of the biggest keys to success in tax resolution is to join a group of fellow practitioners that you can bounce ideas off of and communicate with.

[22:20] Tax resolution work is different from accounts receivable. It’s deferred revenue that you collect over time and allows you to plan your business because you know how much money is coming in.

[24:50] The advice Jong would give to someone considering getting into the tax resolution business is to reach out to Michael and learn the ropes. Come out to the events and talk to other tax resolution specialists and learn how they got started.

[28:40] Fear is a mile high and a mile long, but it’s paper thin. You poke your finger through and that’s where personal growth is. Don’t be afraid of the IRS. There is nothing you can do that will make your client’s situation worse. Knowledge will give you the confidence to deal with them.

[31:15] The pendulum is swinging back to enforcement for the IRS. 2019 is the first time in seven years that Congress has increased the budget of the IRS. Levies have increased by 8% this year. Getting in the tax resolution business now is getting in the ground floor of a great opportunity.

Mentioned in this episode:
Rubicon Tax Relief
Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

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You can be the smartest person in the world but that doesn’t guarantee success. The most successful people today share one common trait which is hard work.

[3:15] Peter Marchiano is a CPA and started his accounting practice in the 80’s. As technology became more of a factor he realized that he couldn’t provide a lot of value with compliance work. While at an accounting seminar he listened to Michael talk about tax resolution and that lead to Peter getting into the tax resolution business.

[5:25] Being able to turn someone’s life around by helping them through the tax resolution process is a big part of the value of the service and ultimately what inspired Peter to get started.

[6:50] Before hearing Michael speak, Peter didn’t really have a tax resolution practice. He helped people with similar situations but didn’t really understand how it was done and ended up doing the work for a fraction of the price. Once he went through the program Peter realized what kind of a gem that he had on his hands.

[8:35] 95% of CPA and agents do tax resolution work without even realizing they’re doing it. They find it miserable because dealing with the IRS is difficult when you don’t know what to do.

[10:15] In 2019, Peter has done $123,000 in revenue, a big portion of that is deferred revenue that will go into the bank account automatically. Peter is now able to plan out his business because of the cash flow that’s built-in.

[14:15] Always have your phones answered live because a lot of the people that have tax problems are not sleeping at night. Just by following a simple script and answering the phone live you can win over most clients.

[17:30] When Peter first saw the fee schedule he felt like there was no way he could charge so much money. When you position yourself correctly the client’s are coming in having pre-sold themselves already so at that point price isn’t really an issue.

[19:50] There are four phases to high ticket selling and one particular phrase that you can use between the first and second phases that turn the process around and gets the client to try to convince you to take their case. Just have a conversation with the prospect to see if you can help them instead of going for the hard sell.

[24:30] If someone is considering the tax resolution business, the best thing you can do is to check out the Tax Resolution Training system. If you’re on the fence, make the jump and get started because you are not going to change anyone’s life doing tax returns. Remember that a specialist always makes more money than the general practitioner.

[29:10] Peter rarely gets much push back on the fees during the initial consultation because of the way he leads up to the conversation in the first place. If you follow the system, by the time you get to the price they are already sold.

[31:30] 99% of the clients that you will deal with are good people that have run into tough times. Lots of people have had their lives ruined by the IRS simply due to an unfortunate circumstance and when you can help them out of that situation you become their hero. They also become a client for life that is going to refer everyone they know with similar challenges.

Mentioned in this episode:
Tax Resolution Specialists, LLC
Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy

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Sandra Mullinax’s husband Ken was a revenue officer with the IRS for seven years. After working with the IRS Ken approached Sandra about going out on his own to help people with tax resolution and they both decided to make a go of it. Sandra now helps Ken with sales and dealing with clients.

[3:40] Ken worked on what Michael calls “the dark side,”, he was responsible for collecting, seizing property when necessary, and other similar tasks. Now, he’s switched to “the light side” and helps people avoid these problems.

[5:55] Sandra and Ken worked for a national company that did the marketing and found the clients and then sold tax resolution cases to people like them. One day, that company stopped selling cases and the same day an ad for Michael Rozbruch’s program appeared. They decided to invest in themselves and take their business into their own hands.

[7:30] Before working with Michael, Sandra and Ken were grossing $6,000 to $8,000 a month. Today their company grosses an average of $68,000 each month.

[9:45] Following the program was Sandra and Ken’s key to their success. When Michael told them to market in a certain way, they put in the work and did it. Not putting in the work is the only reason that people will fail to build the business they want.

[12:10] Lead generation has a longer gestation period than direct response marketing. Direct response like paid search, adwords, and radio is the fastest way to grow your business but without an in-house system to convert those clients you will just flush your money down the toilet.

[13:40] Sandra is responsible for all the sales. That generally entails listening to the client’s needs, and coming up with a game plan. People with tax problems don’t know what to do, so you need to be the guide. Give them your fee and then show them your value.

[14:45] Marketing is getting people face to face with you or on the phone. If you do it properly through the lead generation methods they will be prequalified and predisposed to doing business with you.

[16:10] In terms of pricing, don’t undervalue yourself. Don’t be afraid to ask for the fee, because tax resolution is a life changing service. In one of Ken’s cases the client owed over $800,000 and they settled the case for $25.

[18:15] IRS problems affect all aspects of a person’s life. It affects their relationships and prevents them from thinking clearly because of the tremendous debt hanging over them. Tax resolution is an invaluable service to your community.

[19:45] The more strategies you have working simultaneously the more you will make in the business. Be online, offline, while sending mailers, newsletters, and networking and you will have more clients than you can handle.

[21:00] Sandra is very honest with their clients. Sometimes a person is not eligible for an offering compromise and a lot of companies will promise them they can without telling them what they need to do to become eligible. This can cost people thousands of dollars without resolving anything.

[23:30] Sandra doesn’t use Michael’s fee schedule because some of her clients fall outside the usual case template. In one such case the client owed well over $2 million and getting everything resolved involved a full one year audit.

[27:00] There is enough business for everyone. Tax resolution is a community and what one company can’t handle they can pass on to someone with the right expertise that can.

[28:10] Currently, Sandra and Ken are marketing on multiple levels. They focus on referral networking, postcard mailings sent out to people on a lien list, social media, and Google adwords. Their online and offline strategies are complementing each other.

[29:55] If you’re struggling or want to get into the business, you should take the roadmap and follow the steps. Educate yourself on how to do the marketing, the work, and how to be successful.

[30:50] Experts are always students first. There is no better investment than yourself and your future.

[32:05] Tax resolution is a community of professionals that work together to support one another and to help their clients.

[34:00] In the first year of following Michael’s system Sandra and Ken had bought a lake home. At this point they are living a life they never believed they would have with the freedom to travel and have the things they always wanted.

Mentioned in this episode:
Elite Tax Relief
479-242-7499 to call Sandra
Michael Rozbruch's Tax & Business Solutions Academy