Holding Up The Ladder: Recent Episodes
Matshidiso
A podcast about the creative process - the how, the why.
Most artists are inspired by more than just their own medium – so even though podcast host, Matshidiso is a musician, the arts more broadly, politics, people – in short, life informs the music she makes.
And why ‘Holding up the ladder?’ Because we’re all trying to get somewhere and Matshidiso believes we not only further the arts but each other if we ‘hold up the ladder’ rather than pull the ladder up from under us as we climb.
Website: holdinguptheladder.com
IG: @holdinguptheladder
Twiiter: @hutl_
Holding up the Ladder Salon Series I
This episode is in collaboration with Black British Art, an arts platform that focuses on championing, educating, curating and advising on all that is Black British Art.
Its founder Lisa Anderson-Diffang, a curator, consultant and Interim Managing Director of The Black Cultural Archives* chairs the discussion asking the question - ‘Are we having a Black British Art Renaissance?’.
Our panellists were:
Bolanle Tajudeen - founder of Black Blossoms – an expanded curatorial platform showcasing contemporary Black women and non-binary artists since 2015. In 2020 Bolanle launched the Black Blossoms School of Art and Culture, an online learning platform decolonizing art education.
Bernice Mulenga is a London based multidisciplinary artist, who prioritises the use of analog processes in their work. Mulenga’s work also explores recurring themes surrounding their identity, sexuality, grief, family, and Congolese culture.
And Dr Kimathi Donkor, Kimathi is a contemporary artist. His work re-imagines mythic, legendary and everyday encounters across Africa and its global Diasporas, principally in painting. Dr Donkor earned his PhD at Chelsea College of Arts and he is currently Course Leader for the BA (Hons) degree in Fine Art: Painting at Camberwell College of Arts.
On the night we were served a bespoke menu consistent with the Black British Art theme prepared by The Future Plate, the chef was William Chilila.
The episode was produced and recorded by AiAi studios
*Lisa Anderson is now Managing Director of the Black Cultural Archives
Title: 'Are we having a Black British Art Renaissance?’
LINKS:
Panellists
Bolanle Tajudeen: https://www.black-blossoms.online/; IG - @blackblossoms.online
Bernice Mulenga: https://www.bernicemulenga.com/; IG - @burneece
Dr Kimathi Donkor: https://www.kimathidonkor.net/; IG - @kimathi.donkor
Chair
Lisa Anderson-Diffang: IG - @lisaandersonaa
Black British Art: IG - @blackbritishart
Black Cultural Archives: https://blackculturalarchives.org/
Food
The Future Plate - https://www.thefutureplate.com/
William Chilila: IG - @william_chilila
Salon Series I Playlist - https://tinyurl.com/5mf5n6sn
For images of the event head to the podcast website - https://www.holdinguptheladder.com/
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We have come full circle and reached the end of season 3 - time really flies! I started this season expressing my desire to talk about social justice, racism and discrimination. I gave the example of the Japanese art of Kintsugi - the broken vessel that is mended to make new. And who better to talk about these Kintsugi ideals than the person who introduced me to this concept, return guest, artist Makoto Fujimura. This time he joins me with his incredible wife, lawyer and justice advocate Haejin Shim.
This episode was so powerful and whilst it was recorded sometime in June, the themes remain ever-relevant. We talk about the ways in which beauty, art and justice intersect. Can beauty be found in justice, can art be used as an instrument for justice? What does justice really mean? We talk about faith and beauty. Beauty not as perfection, it’s not cosmetic - but beauty as a journey - a journey into the new. And we can’t talk about beauty without talking about sacrifice and suffering - suffering that leads to what Mako calls ‘generative love’.
I have so much to say about this episode, so much that it’s better that I just say less and you listen and draw your own conclusions.
Guests: Makoto Fujimura & Haejin Shim
Title: Beauty, Art & Justice
Music on playlist: Susie Ibarra, Walking on Water
Makoto Fujimura Links:
Bio
Website
IG
Kintsugi Academy
Culture Care Podcast
Books
Haejin Shim Links:
Bio
IG
Embers International Website
Embers International IG
Shim & Associates Law Firm
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Have you ever asked yourself the question - what is music? Does nature around us - the birds, the trees - make music? What is music supposed to do? I had never thought of these questions (and I didn’t even plan on asking them) until I spoke with my guest today, composer Alexander Liebermann.
Alexander is an award-winning composer, arranger and educator who trained at Musikhochschule Hanns Eisler in Berlin, at New York’s Juilliard and is currently doing his doctorate at the Manhattan School of Music. Alexander’s work is wide-ranging, he writes for ensembles, choral music, orchestras, solo instruments, film scores and how I discovered him, transcribing animal sounds.
We talk about Alexander’s childhood raised in a household of musicians. His composition process, how his lockdown pastime of transcribing animal sounds has not only impacted his composition writing but other musicians. We talk about why a lot of his work centres around nature and climate change, but that he always desires to convey a hopeful message- that hope and positivity can be more effective tools to engage people rather than fear and cynicism.
We talk about how the classical music emphasis on technique and virtuosity isn’t always as important as the story or the passion a musician is trying to convey. We talk about how multi-faceted art and the artist is - as Alexander says, a line I love, 'critique is very easy, but art is difficult’.
My conversation with Alexander wasn’t about finding or establishing answers, for me it was - and why I love doing this podcast - about someone creating work that caused me to consider the world around me in a new way. And as this series is about creative ways to bring about social change, is it possible to do so in joyful and unburdened ways, in ways that inspire fascination and curiosity? I think Alexander has inadvertently done that. Isn’t that what art can do - bypass the mind and go straight to the heart?
Guest: Alexander Liebermann
Title: What is music?
Music on playlist: Erwin Schulhoff, Hot - Sonate
Alexander's links:
Bio
Website
IG
Featured music by Alexander:
De Poeta
Cello Sonata, II, Lento (feat. Raphaël Liebermann)
Erwachen follow the score here
Welcome to the Anthroprocene
Animal song:
Humpback whale
Uirapuru Wren
Seal
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As we continue our conversations about the ways in which art and creativity can be used to bring about social change, I wanted to talk about how normalising the ordinary can actually be a form of activism. I’m joined by kids’ fashion stylist, blogger, lecturer, start-up entrepreneur, artist, wife and mother of two, Yvadney Davis. We talk about normalising the black family, a family that is happy and healthy with children who are free to be themselves outside of the racist and burdensome tropes of anti-blackness. How raising children who are free to play and be curious - free to be children - is in fact an act of radical resistance.
We talk about Yvadney’s journey into styling, about the creative personality that isn’t linear, that loves exploring and learning new things. We talk about how to have frank conversations with children about racism in an age appropriate way. We talk about the world of mum bloggers, that according to Yvadney is, ‘absolutely nuts’ and why she wanted to set up her own blog Mum’s that Slay. We talk about some of the tokenistic and profiteering responses to George Floyd’s murder and how Yvadney felt compelled to speak out against the hypocrisy of it all.
We talk about the creative personality. We about the tech start up she launched with her husband during the pandemic - Musingobingo - an online music bingo game, I’ve played it a few times it’s really really fun!
Yvadney is a bit of a hero of mine - as a friend, I see how she raises her kids, how she juggles all her different roles it’s her realness that inspires me - there’s so much pretending and curating of our lives - Yvadney is honest when it’s hard, she rejoices at the small everyday wins and I watch her raise two quirky, free, unburdened black children with her husband and it inspires no end. The ordinary is for me extraordinary.
Guest: Yvadney Davis
Title: My activism is showing us thriving
Artists on playlist: Alfa Mist; H.E.R.; Robert Glasper; DeBarge; Leikeli47
Yvadney's links:
Styling - IG: @Yvadney and Twitter: @Yvadney
Mum's that Slay Blog and IG
Yvadney's Art - YvadneyDavisArt
Musingobingo - Website Instagram Twitter
Radio Show - Vibes and Stuff
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ADVISORY: This episode contains adult themes unsuitable for younger audiences
In this week’s episode of HUTL we’re talking about the idea of radical homelessness. Where do we find home? What does home mean? Is home a physical or geographical location, is it a state of being or is it both? And how does this idea of home manifest itself within the context of black queer masculinity?! To help me answer some of these complex questions, I’m joined by artist and filmmaker director, filmmaker, writer, broadcaster, and theatre practitioner Topher Campbell.
Topher Campbell’s practice spans broadcasting, theatre, performance, writing, experimental film and site-specific work. His focus has been on sexuality, masculinity, race, human rights, memoir and climate change. In 2000 he co-founded rukus! Federation a Black Queer arts collective with photographer Ajamu X.
We talk about pro-blackness, pro-blackness that doesn’t mean anti-white, it’s not anti anything, it’s ‘pro’. It is as he and Ajamu X sought to do with rukus! Federation moving away from the idea of black people as victims and more about redefining and repositioning themselves publicly.
We interrogate the idea of home, of belonging. For Topher, belonging doesn’t mean approval but rather ‘how you bear witness to your existence’. We talk about why he chose to walk through the streets of New York naked for his 2014 film Fetish. A kind of artistic response piece to the police murder of 12 year old Tamir Rice in 2014. Topher loves to walk through cities, this idea that something so mundane can be for the black body a surveilled, unsafe, violent place. How, as Topher explains, the Black body is never neutral.
Guest: Topher Campbell
Title: The Black Body is never neutral
Artists on playlist: Dudu Pukwana, Fela Kuti, Earthgang, Spillage Village
Support his film Encounters
Full Bio
IMDB page
Social Media Links:
IG
Links to Topher's work:
rukus! Federation
rukus! Federation Article
Topher Campbell and Billy Bragg article in The Independent
Sussex University Graduation Speech
Films:
The Homecoming
Invisible
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Who gets to tell stories, who gets to tell your story? How does story relate to the body? What are the stories our bodies tell? These are some of the questions I delve into through the prism of African women, tattoos and scarification, with my guests today Laurence Sessou and return guest Jessica Horn (catch Jessica in S01 Ep. 7 of HUTL) founders of The Temple of her Skin
Jessica and Laurence, two African women hailing from East Africa and Benin in West Africa respectively were inspired by their own tattoo and scarification journeys to create space for other African women to do the same. Moving away from either the hyper sexualised or anthropological - think National Geographic tribal woman imagery - to discover the real and complex stories of these adorned women, because well, aren’t we all real and complex people? They are discovering as Jessica says ‘where tattooing and scarification sits in our varied African histories’.
We talk about the tattoos that have marked significant moments in their lives. We talk about the difference between tattoos and scarification. We talk about the importance of their grandmothers in their spiritual practices and traditions. We talk about pain, pain not as something we seek after but rather as an almost unavoidable component of bringing something forth - which is why we also talk about childbirth!
We of course talk a lot about the body, about understanding the body, about being connected to the body, about agency over one’s body and how this agency is in fact an act of resistance.
Guests: The Temple of Her Skin
Title: Our Embodiment
Music on playlist inspired from the African continent:
Sauti Sol (Kenya)
Zoe Modiga - Uthando (South Africa)
J.B Mpiana - Ndombolo (Congo)
Ria Boss (Ghana)
Sena Dagadu (Ghana)
Star Number One De Dakar- Waalo (Senegal)
Mpho Sebina & Pianochella (South Africa)
The Temple of Her Skin Links:
Website
IG
Trailer
Support their visual documentary project
Dance Divas on the BBC
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I’ve been thinking a lot about how Black culture shapes mainstream culture so sometimes it can feel like we’re everywhere - but actually when it comes to positions of leadership and ownership - female bandleaders, women producers, label or studio owners, songwriters, women of colour who are composers or arrangers, who aren’t the pretty face in a band, or some kind of object of desire but behind the mixing desk - we really are few in number.
It is changing - in its 2020 music diversity report, industry-funded body UK Music shared some key findings:
The proportion of women in the industry is up from 45.3% in 2016 to 49.6% in 2020. Black Asian and other ethnic minorities in senior executive levels is up from 17.8% in 2018 to 19.9% in 2020. But that means only 1 in 5 people of colour are in senior exec positions. The number of older women in the industry between the ages of 45-64 drops from 38.7% in 2018 to 35% in 2020 we will still have a long way to go (although this is only UK data, I don’t know what it’s like in other parts of the world, especially the States) but things are slowly improving.
Personally or fortunately for me I have, for the most part, been around men who love and respect women, who don’t condescend, who don’t have a problem being lead by a woman, who take instruction, who are safe people to be around and who also advocate for you - my guest today writer, composer, producer, publisher, A&R manager Felix Howard is one of those people.
We talk about being in the music industry and for Felix, it’s vey much a family business, his siblings, his father and grandfather all having careers in the industry, as he calls it ‘a severe lack of imagination’. We talk about the role of an A&R manager, about changes in the music business, about different creative approaches when working with artists, artists like Amy Winehouse. We talk about the importance of diversity and representation across the board, about allyship and tokenism.
We talk about music so much that instead of having one or 2 songs on his playlist as I normally do with my guests, I created a special playlist, I’ve called it Felix Holds up the Ladder.
Guest: Felix Howard
Title: It’s all music and I love it all
Playlist: Felix Holds up the Ladder
Some unsigned/new acts Felix recommends:
Genevieve Dawson - Carry it slowly
Lady Blackbird
The Clocks
Zach Witness
Bio
UK Music Diversity Report 2020
Madonna - Open Your Heart
Mantronix - Got to have your love
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What do you think of when you think of shelter? Have you even thought about what it means or what it’s meant to do? Is it just something that provides immediate protection from the elements? And what about architecture? Is architecture about buildings that we find aesthetically pleasing (or not!) And is there a difference between architecture and shelter? These are questions that I’d never really considered until I spoke with my guest today, architect, academic and award-winning filmmaker Dr Mark Breeze.
The UN High Commission for Refugees reported that at the end of 2020 82.4 million people worldwide were forcibly displaced. The UNHCR does break down this figure into people who are internally displaced, asylum seekers, refugees that come under their mandate but it’s a lot of people who aren’t in their own homes. Which gets us talking about the importance of shelter and the work Mark does in this area.
We talk about the role of architecture and how much it impacts our daily lives. For example, did you know that architecture is responsible for 40% of the world’s CO2 emissions? Talking to Mark I realise that architecture isn’t really about buildings but about creating space that allows for the intangible things - care, safety, privacy, collaboration , our culturally specific needs - not just about bricks and mortar. And in it all we do talk about music!
Guest: Dr Mark Breeze
Title: Shelter is the essence of architecture
Music on playlist: Candy Walls by TR/ST
Bio
Links
Spatial Realities design research collaborative
Contact: hello@spatial-realities.com
Shelter Without Shelter documentary:
University of Cambridge Sustainable Shelter Group
Books:
Structures of Protection? Rethinking Refugee Shelter Book
Forms of the Cinematic: Architecture, Science, and the Arts Book
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When is enough is enough? When is adapting no longer the appropriate response? When do people stop adapting because of their resilience and say we’ve had enough and we need to do something to change this?
I’ve changed this week’s programming (we were due to talk about music with A&R manager Felix Howard) because Wednesday 4th August marks the one year anniversary of the devastating port explosion in Beirut that killed 200 people, made about 300,000 people homeless and created about $15 billion worth of damage. This explosion took place in the backdrop of political and economic problems, a fire in the famous forests that hold the cedars of Lebanon, the Lebanese government placing a tax on the phone app - What’s App, unemployment at almost 60% and the Lebanese revolution on 17th October 2019.
So today we’re heading to Lebanon to talk about the situation in Beirut with founders of Art of Change Imane Assaf and Jason Camp an organisation that curates urban art to enrich communities, supporting and promoting local artists.
Guest: Art of Change
Title: It’s the wake up call for a real revolution
Artists of playlist: Professor Z and The Chemical Brothers
Links
Art of Change:
Website
IG
Youtube
Ahla Fawda NGO:
Website
IG
Brady Black:
IG
Mural of explosion victims:
https://www.instagram.com/p/COc2hGzjRVO/
https://www.instagram.com/p/COc5Js-j4Lp/
https://www.instagram.com/p/COi0Sjmjy6o/
Professor Z:
IG
TD Studios
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This is the 3rd and final instalment on the series of discussions on race, class and education in the UK. It only felt right to interview the person who is the reason I am who I am, who has shaped the way I see the world - the person who literally brought me into the world, my mother, sociologist Dr Lemah Bonnick.
Bio
Lemah trained at the Institute of Education where she obtained her PhD in the Sociology of Education ‘Racial structuring of Educational Marginality’.
She was a senior lecturer in sociology at St Mary’s University: Twickenham. She also served as a school governor. She has presented her work in the United States - at Temple University, Ohio State University and Brown - In the Service of Neglected People: Anna Julia Cooper, Ontology, and Education
She is currently working on a book - The Will to Know: Redemptive Tradition in the
Struggle for Education among People of African Descent in America and the
English-Speaking Caribbean
We talk about her journey into Sociology working with Dr Basil Bernstein considered one of the architects of the Sociology of Education. We talk about class as a component of social, cultural and economic capital and its impact on education and what my mother describes as the ‘commodification of education’.
We talk about Caribbean intellectuals and their contribution to shaping discussions around Britain’s colonial legacy in the UK and the Caribbean - C.L.R. James, Stuart Hall, educational psychologist Bernard Coard, Jessica Huntley, New Beacon books founder, John La Rose, Kamau Braithwaite. We talk James Baldwin, Toni Morrisson, W.E.B Dubois, Anna Julia Cooper. We talk about Windrush, about the complex relationships between minority groups. We talk about the controversial UK report on race by the Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities and we talk about music.
Guest: Dr Lemah Bonnick
Title: We talk about the exception as if it’s the rule
Artists on playlist: Marvin Gaye, Schubert, Ella Fitzgerald and Lionel Richie
Links:
Bernard Coard - How the West Indian Child is Made Educationally Sub-normal in the British School System: The Scandal of the Black Child in Schools in Britain
Jessica Huntley
John La Rose, New Beacon Books
Kamau Brathwaite
Windrush - https://www.bl.uk/windrush
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43782241
Akala - Natives: Race & Class in the Ruins of Empire
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I’m delighted to bring to you part 2 of our 3-part series on race, class and education in the UK. This week we’re joined by historian Dr Michael Taylor, author of what I’m calling ‘required reading’ & shortlisted for The Orwell Prize for Political Writing 2021 - The Interest, How The British Establishment Resisted the Abolition of Slavery
Bio
Michael Taylor is a historian of the British Empire and the British Isles in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. He graduated with a double first in history from the University of Cambridge, where he earned his PhD - and also won University Challenge. He has since been Lecturer in Modern British History at Balliol College, Oxford, and a Visiting Fellow at the British Library's Eccles Centre for American Studies.
We talk about the political landscape of Britain in the 1810s and 20s how the split within the Tory party and Catholic emancipation in Ireland were key contributing factors to abolition. We talk reparations, reparations not as financial recompense for slave labour (because that would be impossible to quantify and impossible to pay back), but actually reparations as a form of restorative justice.
It wasn’t until 2015 that the UK Treasury finished paying off the loan it raised in 1835 to recompense slaveholders. To put it into context the British government at the time spent 40% of its budget - £20 million pounds - which in today’s money when Michael was writing the book amounted to about £340billion pounds. And to really understand what this means for us now, the British tax payer and particularly Black Britons of Caribbean descent have essentially been ‘paying taxes to compensate those who enslaved [their] ancestors’. (p.300 of the book)
We talk about the role of theology and how it framed both pro slavery and abolitionist narratives. We talk about the interconnectedness and muddiness of these historical abolitionist figures - that a person could be an abolitionist and a racist at the same time. We talk about whether or not to remove statues of slave holders. And we still make time to talk about music!
Guest: Dr. Michael Taylor
Title: Abolition was not a fait accompli
Artists on playlist: The Cure; Beethoven & R.E.M
Twitter: @M_H_Taylor
Buy the book
Quotes taken from the preface xv and pp 26 & 300
CARICOM - Website
Article in response to Treasury Tweets
Peter Fryer book, Staying Power
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Today’s episode is the first of a 3-part discussion on race, class and education in the UK. A 3-part conversation that really is the basis for the theme of season 3 - arts, anti racism and social change.
We kick off the discussion with journalist and author of Sunday Times bestselling book Why I’m No longer to White people About Race Reni Eddo-Lodge
Reni’s 2017 book was birthed out of a 2014 blog post of the same name sharing her experiences of what I would call almost a kind of racial emotional fatigue - which we touch on in our interview. But as you can imagine Reni has been talking about this book for a couple years which she says at this point is very much nostalgic for her. So in fact we talk more about the controversial report on race that was commissioned by UK Prime minister Boris Johnson and written by the Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities. It was published around the time I interviewed Reni at the end of April to much public contestation and we get into that.
We also talk about mental health and managing what Reni describes as soft liberal racism - as another friend mine said, navigating racism in this country is like running anti virus software all the time. We talk about how isolating racism can be and that writing this book which Reni likes to shorten to ‘Why I’m’ has actually created a connectedness and has given her a global community. We talk about navigating success, how it can be a mixed blessing, the challenge of finding the creative space to make new work and we talk about Reni’s eclectic taste in music!
Guest: Reni Eddo-Lodge
Title: It was doomed from the start
Songs on playlist: Beatles, Blackbird, DMX, Ruffryders anthem; MNEK; Rupaul’s Dragrace UK; 21 seconds So Solid Crew
Website: https://renieddolodge.co.uk/
IG: @renieddolodge
Twitter: @renireni
Other references by Reni:
British Medical Journal response to Race Report
The Spectator Article
Mia Mingus - Website
IG: @mia.mingus
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In this week’s episode of HUTL, we’re talking art, access and representation with art historian, writer, curator and director of London’s Chisenhale Gallery Dr. Zoe Whitley.
We talk about the importance of seeing oneself reflected in culture and having teachers who create spaces for that exploration. We talk about Black women and their hair, about standards of beauty and representations of black women and beauty. We talk about the power of possibility having what’s possible reflected back at us. We talk about access, access to the arts, particularly with respect to her co-curation of the celebrated Soul of a Nation at the Tate Gallery. We talk about the arc of black consciousness from Negro, to Black, to African American - the Black Panther’s Stockley Carmichael becomes Kwame Ture - that being and becoming that Stuart Hall spoke about. We talk about the next generation of curators who are speaking to the world we’re in now. We talk about learning to rest, how rest is in fact an act of radical resistance and of course, we talk about music.
Bio
Instagram: @ZoeWhitley
Guest: Dr Zoe Whitley
Title: Who gets to be an artist?
Artists on playlist: Shameika Said, ft Fiona Apple; No Name, Rainforest; Lous and The Yakuza
Artist References
Harper’s Bazaar Article by Zoe Whitley
Vision and Justice Website
Denise Murelle - Posing Modernity The Black Model from Manet and Matisse to Today
NAFAD - National Association of Fashion and Accessories Designers in the National Museum of African American History and Culture Smithsonian
Tiona Nekkia McClodden - Website
Tricia Hersey the Nap ministry - Website
Joy Gregory - Autoportrait
Website
Lubaina Himid - Cutting up the Guardian
Faith Ringgold’s Children’s books
Website
Allison Glenn - https://www.promisewitnessremembrance.org/
Discussion
Website
Meg Onli - Art for Philadelphia
Languid Hands - Website
B.O.S.S - Instagram
Turner Prize Shortlist
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It’s great to be back and with the first episode of season 3, a season dedicated to the arts, creativity and social change.
My guest today is serial entrepreneur, investor, tech executive, CEO and Founding Member of Impact X Capital Partners, Eric Collins.
Bio
London-based Eric is a serial entrepreneur, investor and technology executive who has spent a career building the value of digital companies through innovative strategies.
He has done this at public and private companies including AOL, TimeWarner, Tegic/Nuance Communications, MobilePosse, SwiftKey/Microsoft and most recently, Touch Surgery, where he was COO.
In 2018, Eric was part of a prominent group of black European and US serial entrepreneurs, institutional investors, investment bankers, corporate leaders and entertainers to found Impact X Capital Partners.
The company is a double bottom-line venture capital firm that invests in under-represented innovators in Europe, focusing on growth stage companies in three distinct sectors: digital and technology, health, education and lifestyle; and media and entertainment.
Eric is also a sought-after board member and advisor in the technology space. He sits on the board of companies in San Francisco and London, including Tech Nation, and acts as an advisor to companies in the US, India and the UK.
He supports civic activities. In London, he serves on the board of Autograph ABP and Southwark Cathedral’s Council and, in the US, he has been a board member of Washington Performing Arts.
He also donates time and resources to many other contemporary causes, including the Smithsonian Institute’s Museum of African-American History and Culture; The National Museum of African Art; Toronto’s Power Plant Gallery; and Philomena’s Chorus (a programme that helps under-represented voices, especially young, black British women, produce films).
President Obama appointed Eric to the Small Business Administration’s Council on Underserved Communities and as an evaluator for White House Fellow applicants.
Eric holds degrees from Princeton University and Harvard Law School.
In November 2018, The Financial Times named him among the UK’s top 100 BAME leaders in technology. In 2019 and 2020 he was voted one of the most influential black people in Britain on the Powerlist.
Eric is the host of new Channel 4 business reality show, The Money Maker, the format of which is based on long running CNBC series The Profit.
Guest: Eric Collins
Title: We don't need permission
Music on Playlist: Your Arms are too short to box with God by Vinnette Carroll and The Me Nobody Knows by Gary William Friedman
Website: Impact X
The Money Maker Website on Channel 4
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Welcome to Season 3 of Holding up the Ladder
In the few months between the end of season 2 and the start of season 3 it seems the world isn’t calming down any time soon - in fact in many ways, it feels more intense and more far-reaching. We’ve had the conviction of Derek Chauvin for the murder of George Floyd, which doesn’t really feel like a victory and more like a pyrrhic victory - you know where no-one really wins. All around the world - Chile, Colombia, Ethiopia, Belarus, the Israel-Palestine conflict, a surge in Asian hate crimes, the list goes on - we can’t avoid it and I don’t want to. What we’re going to do this season, is to try and talk about it - we’re going to talk about justice, about social change, anti-racism, anti-discrimination with people who know these areas really well and because this is a creative podcast, we’re going to talk about how creativity and the arts speaks to justice.
If you listened to last season’s interview with Japanese artist Makoto Fujimura, you will have heard him talk about the art of Kintsugi - that is the art of mending to make new. A bowl or a vessel is brought with all its broken pieces, those pieces are examined and then the pieces are put together with Japanese gold lacquer - we don’t fix, or hide the cracks, instead we accentuate their beauty - in the hope that what we are left with is a vessel that’s more beautiful than before. But before we mend, we examine. So that’s what I’m going to try and do this season - we’re going to examine some of these broken ‘societal’ pieces, with the hopes of finding beauty in the brokenness.
And as always, I’m interviewing some really interesting creatives from around the world from diverse disciplines - we’ll be talking about race and racism with writers, historians and academics, about blackness and queerness, about sheltering displaced and migrant people and how architects help with that, we’ll be talking about African feminism through tattoos and scarification, we’ll be talking about diversity in business and tech, not asking for a seat at the table but making our own. We’ll be talking about education and class in the UK, about art and art curation, about fashion, diversity in the music industry, we’ll be talking about environmental awareness through transcribing bird and animal song. We’ll be talking about beauty and justice and as always we’ll be talking about music!
One of the reasons Airbnb is sponsoring this series is to support these conversations, so as the season progresses I’ll also be sharing some of the actions Airbnb has been taking around anti racism, anti discrimination and social change so stay tuned for that. I’m really looking forward to this season, I’ll see you for our first episode on Wednesday 23rd June!
Airbnb Report on Travel
Airbnb Summarised Report
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And so we come to the end of Season 2! And what a season it’s been. I would normally have another wonderful guest to come and share their process with us, but this time I wanted to do something a little different. I feel like I had some real personal awakenings that I’m going to share with you. Using excerpts of interviews from across the season, I’ll be talking about the value of arts in society and why it’s so important to value ourselves!
There is a great line in the Jane Campion film Bright Star about the English poet John Keats where his friend, writer Charles Brown says to Keats’ love interest Fanny Brawne, something along the lines of, ‘please don’t disturb us if you see us lying on the grass staring into space, we’re actually working’. That line resonated so much with me because so many of my ideas come from ‘lying on the grass, staring into space!’ This episode is about not only giving yourself permission to do just that, it’s also about why it’s so important to have the space to do so!
All over the world, the arts is used to give voice to our cultural, political and social histories, some are celebrated (in the Middle East, for example, poets are considered to be like rock stars, they fill stadiums) some are loathed, some are ignored, some are even killed, many are lauded posthumously. Yet if we understand the importance of art in a society that seeks flourishing over commodity, connection over capital then art and its artists become a bridge. As my guest from last week Shruti Kumar said, artists are ‘orators of our history.’
So thank you to all the fabulous guests who have shared their processes with us this season - it has been a real art imitating life, imitating art for me! And a huge thank you to Suzan Kibirge who has been managing all the social media and analytics but mostly to you all for listening. Until next time!
Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs
Eliud Kipchoge running 26.2 in under 2hrs
Guest: Yours truly! @matshidisomusic
Title: Reflections - Valuing the arts, valuing ourselves
Music I’m listening to: Midnight Mischief, Jordan Rakei; Bach Motets by The Pygmalion Ensemble with Raphael Pichon; my Spotify playlist - 'Songs for roadtrips and daydreams'
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We talk about access to musical education, about bridging the gap between classical music and other musical genres. We talk about the role of arts in society, about creating safe spaces, safe spaces for artists, for women artists. We talk about starting musician-led spaces rather than seeking a seat at the table, about the importance and necessity of creating our own jobs. We talk about trusting your gut, trusting your ear and your own creative expression because as Shruti puts it, ‘- art is meant to be a reflection of you, not a regurgitation of what’s been done before’.
We talk about the future of the musical landscape in these pandemic and post-pandemic times and our mutual love of Quincy Jones.
This episode was recorded just before Christmas, so you’re not going to hear any references to some of the political changes that have taken place in the States like the insurrection one Capitol Hill or the inauguration of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.
Guest Bio
Shruti is a composer/producer based in LA. Her work has spanned film/tv, pop, and concert worlds and she often finds herself in projects that mix genres and experiences. Her work has been used by/for The National Geographic, NPR, The United Nations, The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, FOX India, A24, The 2016 Summer Olympics, UNICEF, and The Nederlander Organization. She spent the majority of the past year in London doing a residency with Spitfire Audio as well as producing out of Strongroom Studios in Shoreditch working with other artists as well as weaving together several years of collected sounds from her travels around the world for her upcoming album "Nodding Terms". She is also a Dublab radio host, "Let's Shake On It” and founder of Sound Travels engaging with culture & arts advocacy as well as aiming to level the musical playing field.
Guest: Shruti Kumar
Title: All the doors are viable if you keep an open mind about the music you’re creating
Music by Shruti: Knocked for Six, Feels Good Instrumental and Peel Away
Albums on Playlist: Nicholas Britell - If Beale St Could Talk, Bach - Goldberg Variations, Glenn Gould, Thundercat - It Is What It Is, Fiona Apple - Fetch the Bolt Cutters
Website: https://www.shrutikumar.com/
IG: @tamingoftheshruti
Let’s Shake on It, Website: https://www.dublab.com/shows/lets-shake-on-it
IG: @lets_shake_on_it
Sound Travels website: https://soundcantravel.com/
IG: @soundcantravel
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Today, we’re talking about the future - about creating a world we haven’t yet seen and a future that hasn’t yet been imagined. We’re talking about outside the box thinking, dreaming, playing, experimenting. I'm talking AI, living on Mars, the Elon Musks, the Will. I. Ams, my guest earlier this season, Beatie Wolfe who uses technology to push what’s possible in our musical experiences (she sent her music to space, and has contributed to pioneering Dementia research). At times they may seem eccentric to us but actually there’s something they’ve tapped into that we haven’t understood yet - what’s that phrase, ‘it seems impossible until it’s done’.
And in the realm of sustainability and renewable materials in architecture and design there’s my guest today, Elora Hardy who is pushing the realms of possibility with bamboo.
I first learnt about Elora Hardy and the work she does with design and architecture firm she founded Ibuku on Apple TV series Home - these breathtaking, otherworldly cities made entirely out of bamboo.
Born in Toronto, Canada but grew up in Bali, Elora has a background in Fine Art and used to work for fashion designer Donna Karen. We talk about how not having any formal architectural training actually helped Elora to work outside the traditional confines of architecture, yet with a respect for craft, study and skill and how this helped to push the envelope of what’s possible in architectural design.
We talk about the qualities of bamboo, bamboo as a new form of renewable material and replacement for fossil fuels. We talk about the process that goes in to designing these other worldly structures in the lush Balinese landscape, about serving materials and the surrounding environment rather than using these materials to serve us. We talk about shelter and space and our interconnectedness with nature and each other. We also talk about her 5 year old son’s love of loud instrumental rock music!
Guest: Elora Hardy
Title: It’s not going to look the way people imagine because it hasn’t been imagined yet
Artists on playlist: Led Zeppelin, Daft Punk, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Steve Vai
Ibuku Bali Website: https://ibuku.com/
IG: @ibukubali
Apple TV Home Trailer - https://youtu.be/l2n5DcNXJ8Y
BambooU website: https://www.bamboou.com/
IG: @bambooubali
Green School Bali website: https://www.greenschool.org/bali
IG: @greenschoolbali
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In this special bonus episode of Holding up the Ladder, we’re talking money! Money and the music industry.
I’ve brought in some formidable women to talk about these issues and made a point of including not just artists but people who work in what I call the administrative side of the industry - law, label management etc. So, let me introduce you to my guests:
- Producer, songwriter, composer and singer, Alev Lenz
- Music and media lawyer, Honey Onile-Ere
- Creative business consultant, Sam Campbell
- Composer/Producer, Shruti Kumar
We talk about how to navigate the vastly complex and amorphous world of the music industry and how to do it as women and also women of colour. We talk about how to self advocate, how to negotiate, how knowing your value has a direct impact on the price you place on your work. We talk about allies and creating strong networks. We talk about the role that art generally and music more specifically plays in society - how do we quantify the value of music, not the person making the music but the music itself? We talk about the importance of protecting and therefore valuing the arts at a governmental level, how this impacts the value we place on artists and how all of this connects to money.
Guests: Alev Lenz, Honey Onile-Ere, Sam Campbell & Shruti Kumar
Title: Money Talks - Navigating the Music Industry
Guest bios:
Alev Lenz
Alev Lenz is a German-Turkish producer, songwriter, composer and singer. Alev released her first album in 2009 Storytelling Piano Playing Fräulein, her sophomore record Two-Headed Girl came out in 2016 and her latest album 3 came out at the end of 2019. Her music has featured on critically acclaimed TV shows, Netflix series Dark, Black Mirror and the third season of The Rain. Alev has been working in close collaboration with Anoushka Shankar, featuring on her Grammy-nominated album ‘Land of Gold’ as well as writing and co-producing for Anoushka Shankar's EP 'Love Letters' which culminated in a Grammy-nomination. Alev has also worked in close collaboration with Spitfire Audio creating an interactive sound library.
Website: https://www.alevlenz.com/
IG: @alev_lenz
Honey Onile-Ere
Honey is a qualified lawyer, with several years of music and media legal and business affairs experience. Honey was Head of Legal & Business Affairs at Warner/Chappell Music Publishing for 10 years, after which she was Director of Legal & Business Affairs at BMG Rights Management. Prior to taking up her role at AMRA, Honey worked as a freelance Business Affairs consultant, working with a wide range of media businesses, from major labels / publishers (such as Universal Music and what was then EMI Records) to independents, including Imagem Music (now Concord) and Perfect Songs. Honey has also consulted for a range of businesses focused on the development of the music business in emerging territories, with a particular emphasis on West Africa, working with both labels and publishers, as well as collecting societies in the region.
Website: https://www.amra.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/honey-onile-ere-57973135/
Sam Campbell
Sam is a creative business consultant, consultant music publishing manager and consultant label manager with an MBA from Imperial College Business School. With over 25 years music industry experience, Sam creates monetisation models for independent artists and SMEs. She also develops and structures revenue streams for creative individuals.
Website: https://www.cdasoundldn.com/
Instagram: @cdastylelondon
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-campbell-mba-8552bb26
Shruti Kumar
Shruti is a musician, composer/producer based in LA. Her work has spanned film/tv, pop, and concert worlds and she often finds herself in projects that mix genres and experiences. Her work has been used by/for The National Geographic, NPR, The United Nations, The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, FOX India, A24, The 2016 Summer Olympics, UNICEF, and The Nederlander Organization. She spent the majority of the past year in London doing a residency with Spitfire Audio as well as producing out of Strongroom Studios in Shoreditch working with other artists as well as weaving together several years of collected sounds from her travels around the world for her upcoming album "Nodding Terms". She is also a Dublab radio host, "Let's Shake On It” and founder of Sound Travels engaging with culture & arts advocacy as well as aiming to level the musical playing field.
Website: https://www.shrutikumar.com/
IG: @tamingoftheshruti
Radio show, Let’s Shake on It: Website: https://www.dublab.com/shows/lets-shake-on-it & IG: @lets_shake_on_it
Sound Travels: Website: https://soundcantravel.com/ IG: @soundcantravel
Reports:
UK Music
PRS
Billboard
Music Week/Sunday Times Rich List
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I’ve probably said this before but the thing I love most about music, apart from the music itself is who you get to meet through it, the relationships that are forged - I’ve made friends whom I now consider my extended family. One of those people is the reason I know today’s guest. His name was Richard Antwi (he unfortunately passed away a few years ago). He was a lawyer and my manager and became a really good friend - he was instrumental in the careers of many artists, he signed the likes of Adele to her record deal, he also put some of the UK’s grime artists on the map, think Lethal Bizzle, Boy Better Know and Wretch 32. He also managed my guest today, singer Daley. Hailing from Manchester in England Daley has one of those voices, so soulful and a falsetto that’s as clear as a bell. If you think I’m exaggerating, Quincy Jones and Stevie Wonder also agree - he has sung with both of them at their request - Daley even told me after we ended our interview that he was at Stevie Wonder’s house for Thanksgiving last year!
I met Daley soon after he got signed and became his piano teacher. I was fortunate enough to hear some of his songs before they were released. Since then he has gone on to record 3 full length albums, worked with Pharell, sung with the likes of Jessie J, Marsha Ambrosius of the band Floetry, Jill Scott, Maxwell, Angie Stone and as I mentioned the legend that is Stevie Wonder.
We talk about Daley’s journey into music, the UK music industry’s approach to RnB & Soul artists compared to the States, about signing to a major label. We talk about hindsight, about finding your voice. We talk about career highlights, being creative in a pandemic and trusting your instincts even if it goes against the dominant voices in the room.
Guest: Daley
Title: Don’t second guess your gut feeling
Featured songs by Daley:
Slow Burn
Those Who Wait
Alone Together ft. Marsha Ambrosius
Try (The Line) ft. Bad Fruit
Music on Daley’s playlist: Phantom Thread (original motion picture soundtrack) - Jonny Greenwood
Roisin Machine - Roisin Murphy
Music I mention:
If Beale Street Could Talk (original motion picture score) - Nicholas Britell
A Room with a View (motion picture soundtrack) - Richard Robbins
Lieder ohne Worte (songs without words) Felix Mendelssohn - Daniel Barenboim
Website: https://www.daley.tv/
Instagram:@daley
Youtube: @daleyofficial
Twitter: @daleymusic
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In this week’s special bonus episode of Holding up the Ladder, we’re talking value systems and building creative community. I’ll be sharing some of the lessons I’ve learned/am learning over the past 8-10 years building my music production company. I’m joined by my good friend Ramona Harris- she is global head of language services at Hogarth, the world’s leading creative production partner for many brands and agencies including Coca-Cola, Nespresso, Dyson.
She is extremely pragmatic and has a gift for taking bigs ideas and knowing how to practically implement them - I run a lot ideas past her. Hopefully you’ll see what I mean during the course of our discussion. We come from very different worlds but I strongly believe in working with people and having friends who hold similar values but very different perspectives, if done right I think they actually help take you further than if you’re only interacting with people with similar thinking.
And here are the ‘Principles’ for building creative community that we speak about:
- What are you trying to building, knowing your why
- Valuing the people you work with
- Be kind to people
- Paying it forward
- Principle of reciprocity
- Learning when and when not to compromise
- Finding your tribe/your community
- Just do it!
Guest: Ramona Harris
Title: Building Creative Community - Establishing value systems with Ramona Harris
Links to some of the things we refer to:
Book - Impact Capital by Sir Ronald Cohen
Film - Brooklyn Boheme
Podcast episode about my friend Ian Toothill who inspired principle No. 8, Just do it!
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Born in Boston, Makoto Fujimura or 'Mako' the name he goes by is an artist, arts advocate, writer, thinker and filmmaker. He studied 16th & 17th century Japanese art in Japan and practices the Japanese art of Nihonga or ‘slow art’. This beautiful ‘refractive’ art requires you to slow down in order to see what’s happening in the painting, sometimes 10-15mins at a time and then a whole world opens up - colours that you hadn’t seen before unless you slow down to look.
We talk about the work he does with the organisation he founded I am Culture Care, creating a space where culture isn’t fought over but rather nurtured like a garden. We talk about hearing the music in art, about art as sound. About finding genesis moments in art, creating out of darkness, out of suffering. We talk about creating communal tables that to quote Mako, ‘[e]nduring art cannot be created without a covenantal community’. We talk about the Japanese art of Kintsugi - the art of mending to make new, finding beauty in brokenness.
Guest: Makoto Fujimura
Title: Mending to make new - the Japanese art of Kintsugi
Artist on playlist: Susie Ibarra
Websites
https://www.makotofujimura.com/
https://iamculturecare.com/fujimura-institute
https://iamculturecare.com/
Instagram: @iamfujimura
Kintsugi Instagram: @academykintsugi/
Collaborations
Quartets - artistic response to T.S. Elliot’s 4 Quartets
New York Times Op ed piece
Writing - https://www.makotofujimura.com/writings/art-love-and-beauty-introduction
https://www.makotofujimura.com/writings/art-love-and-beauty-on-art-lecture-1
Culture Care Podcast
Culture Care book
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It’s not everyday you get to talk to artists you admire and then they turn out to be even more wonderful in person. I’ve been listening to the music of today’s guest for many years now and every time I return to it I’m reminded of why I love music from authentic voices.
Pura Fé (meaning ‘pure faith’) is a musician, songwriter and activist originally from North Carolina but raised in New York. She is in many ways the embodiment of America’s rich and complex ancestral history - with her Native American Tuscarora Indian, African American (specifically Yoruba and Ebo), North Carolinian, Scottish, Puerto Rican roots - all of which is also expressed in her music.
We talk about growing up in a family with 8 generations of singing sisters who sang opera, a mother who sang with the likes of Duke Ellington, how piano legend Thelonius Monk is also a relation, about falling asleep in all night church services where jazz trumpet legend Miles Davis among many others would come to play.
We talk about her musical education at Lincoln Square Academy in New York and why Pura Fé chose not to sign with Sony and label exec Tommy Mottola (the person who signed and married Mariah Carey) or any major record label for that matter. We talk about singing with Anita Baker about singing at an event with Lena Horne in the audience.
We talk about what is American music and particularly the story of Native American people and their music.
Guest: Pura Fé
Title: I think I was born with a fist in the air
Songs all by Pura Fé:
- Great Grandpah’s Banjo from the album Full Moon Rising
- Mahk Jchi from the Ulali project band
- My People My Land Pt.2 from the album Hold the Rain
- Red, Black on Blues from the album Full Moon Rising
- My People my Land Pt 1 from the album Hold the Rain
- Let Heaven Show from the album Hold the Rain
Website: https://www.purafe.com
Instagram: @pura.fe.9
Trailer of RUMBLE: The Indians That Rocked The World - https://youtu.be/hovJUoyxulc
Clip on the history of the banjo with Rhiannon Giddens - https://youtu.be/DkGSns7-_e0
Artist on her playlist: James Brown
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ADVISORY: In this episode we talk about issues of domestic and sexual violence
Welcome back to the second and final part of my conversation with South African photographer Leeroy Jason. If you haven’t listened to part 1 yet it’s worth tuning in so you get a sense of Leeroy, his work, his values and how we ended up having our meandering conversation - meandering, not in the sense of being directionless more in the sense of the kind of conversations you have with someone when you go for a long walk, or at a long dinner when wine is flowing moving from subject to subject.
I’ve also shamelessly added my own music in this episode but I promise, there is a context to it! In part 1 I tried to get Leeroy to tell me the music he’s listening to, I did the same in this episode but to be honest I never did manage to pin him down!
Guest: Leeroy Jason
Title: The more honest you are as an artist the more people relate to that
Artist on playlist: SZA, Hit Different
Link to Singing dog
Song by Matshidiso: Quiet Love
Mental Health Charities & Organisations
South Africa
https://genderjustice.org.za/
http://www.sadag.org/
The Carroll Shaw Memorial Centre (rehabilitation for abused men) website is down but there is an email: info@csmc.org.za & tel: 011 416 6080
I asked a South African psychotherapist friend who studied and trained for many years in South Africa she advised that for those who are on medical aid, you may be able to apply for up to 15 therapy sessions.
UK
Therapy for men
https://www.thecalmzone.net/
https://www.wearehumen.org/
Therapy for men in London
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/counselling/mens-issues/eng/london
In South London
https://www.slam.nhs.uk/about-us/who-we-are/partnership-working/maudsley-charity/
Black, African & Asian mental health charity
https://www.baatn.org.uk
Black men's mental health for 16-30yr olds
https://www.hoodmentality.co/
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ADVISORY: In this episode we talk about issues of domestic and sexual violence
If you’ve been listening to this podcast at all you’ll hear me talk a lot about South Africa and you’ll also know that I’m half South African. I love South Africa it is home for me as much as London is my home - yet I feel like I fully belong and I’m a foreigner all at once. I often say South Africa is a place of extremes, the good things are incredible and the bad things are terrible and it seems to me that this is the place South Africa exists, beautiful and harrowing, inspiring and exasperating. When I think about my guest today, photographer Leeroy Jason, his work so well encapsulates these tensions - beautiful painful, frightening yet you can't help but stare…an image comes to mind of a man being sprayed in the face with teargas - the image is brutal yet Leeroy captures it in such a way that the movement in the picture gives it an elegance that makes it feel like a dance.
Leeroy started taking pictures at the age of 11. With a famous war photographer father who covered the apartheid struggle, the Rwandan genocide and the war in Kosovo (he’s also responsible for that iconic picture of Lady Diana shaking hands with Nelson Mandela) the realities of war and the effects of PTSD turned Leeroy temporarily away from a career in photography but it would seem the pull was too strong to stay away but I’ll let him tell you about that himself.
Leeroy has a way of giving voice to ideas in a way I had not previously considered and then using photography to articulate those ideas. Days after our discussion I found myself revisiting some of things he said. Leeroy’s photography challenges, it provokes, it causes you to question, it is art, it’s also journalistic, he has a way of merging those extremes I was telling you about. We recorded this episode in September and at the time of airing, South Africa still has the highest rates of rape in the world (according to a report by the South African Medical research council 25% of SA men have admitted to raping a women and of that 25% nearly half said they have raped more than 1 woman) the numbers are disturbing especially when we know that a lot of rapes go unreported and that these aren’t numbers they are real people - Leeroy’s work seeks to address the issues around gender based violence or GBV not only from the perspective of South African women to quote Leeroy ‘taking their power back’ but he also challenges men, African men, South African men (starting with himself) to look at their own behaviour, to reconsider their understanding of their masculinity of African masculinity and sexuality and he does so with his photography.
Leeroy was open, honest, vulnerable, he got us talking about things I didn’t expect. And it’s why I decided to divide this conversation into 2 parts. I tried to end the conversation like I always do, talking about music, about the music he was listening to, but our conversation, steered by Leeroy took a different turn and we kind of wandered down an unexpected creative road so that Leeroy ended up interviewing me - as I said, not what I expected! You’ll have to tune in to part 2 to listen to that- but for this episode know that we talk about the police and citizen responses to Covid-19, Leeroy’s journey into photography, the work he explores in what is known as ‘the fall’ generation and his photography series Everything must fall. We talk about trauma, about violence about masculine identity and sexuality and we try to talk about music!
Guest: Leeroy Jason
Title: Everything Must Fall
Instagram: @darealclickclak
Mental Health Charities & Organisations
South Africa
https://genderjustice.org.za/
http://www.sadag.org/
The Carroll Shaw Memorial Centre (rehabilitation for abused men) website is down but there is an email: info@csmc.org.za & tel: 011 416 6080
I asked a South African psychotherapist friend who studied and trained for many years in South Africa she advised that for those who are on medical aid, you may be able to apply for up to 15 therapy sessions.
UK therapy for men
https://www.thecalmzone.net/
https://www.wearehumen.org/
Therapy for men in London
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/counselling/mens-issues/eng/london
In South London
https://www.slam.nhs.uk/about-us/who-we-are/partnership-working/maudsley-charity/
Black, African & Asian mental health charity
https://www.baatn.org.uk
Black men's mental health for 16-30yr olds
https://www.hoodmentality.co/
If you'd like to support the podcast click here
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My guest on today’s episode of Holding Up the Ladder is chef Pierre Thiam. Hailing from Dakar in Senegal, now residing in New York, Pierre is an author, restaurateur, social entrepreneur and culinary ambassador. He is the executive chef of awarding-winning restaurant Nok by Alara in Lagos, Nigeria; signature chef of the 5-star Pullman Hotel in Dakar; executive chef and co-owner of Teranga a fast-casual food chain in New York rooted in traditional African culinary traditions and founder of Yolélé Foods a company that advocates for small holder farmers in the Sahel, opening new markets for crops grown in Africa, particularly the super food Fonio which we talk about in detail in our interview. Chef Thiam also has a number of beautiful cookbooks celebrating Senegal and the rich culinary traditions of West Africa.
We talk about Pierre’s journey from a student of physics and chemistry in Dakar to the kitchens of New York. We talk about the politics of food; food justice and food deserts. We talk about sustainability, how lifestyle desires of people in the West can negatively impact farmers across the world. We talk about the far-reaching disruptive effects of colonialism on farming so that crops from as far afield as Vietnam have impacted the Senegalese diet.
We talk about how Pierre’s cultural heritage has shaped his work and what he values. And we attempt to settle the long-standing argument of which country in West Africa makes the best jollof rice, hint - it’s not Nigeria and it’s not Ghana! And we of course talk about music.
Guest: Chef Pierre Thiam
Title: The best way to transcend borders is through food
Links:
Chef Thiam’s website & IG
Yolélé Foods website & IG
Teranga website & IG
Report on Future 50 Foods
Artists of playlist: Randy Weston, A Tribe Called Quest, Cheikh Lô
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Some conversations are less about answers and more about the questions. Getting to ‘the why’ of an issue. And sometimes those questions, those ‘whys’ open the door to unexpected discoveries that give rise to even more questions. That’s how I would describe my conversation with today’s guest, artist Beatie Wolfe.
I was introduced to Beatie’s work at her retrospective at London’s Victoria and Albert museum and to say I was blown away is an understatement. Beatie isn’t solely a musician, she’s a tech innovator, a scientist, an artist - she’s sent her music into space, played in the quietist room on earth, she’s contributed to pioneering Dementia research, she’s the first person to use live 360 VR in her music, created an environmental protest piece using 800,000 yrs of Nasa data the list goes on, if I were to tell you all of it it would sound like I’m reeling off an impressive CV. Yet what I find more impressive isn’t actually what she’s achieved (albeit incredible) it’s her curiosity and what I would call a very simple yet deeply rooted conviction about the power of music - it’s those questions that I was telling you about. And it’s from that questioning that Beatie has innovated, challenged, pioneered and for people like me, really inspired.
We talk about the ‘why’ of music, its importance, its value, its ability to heal, to connect us, what Beatie calls ‘music as medicine’ and the conditions needed to ensure that it (again to quote Beatie) ‘imprints’.
Guest: Beatie Wolfe
Title: Music keeps us alive inside
Website: https://beatiewolfe.com/
IG - @beatiewolfe
Songs: Take me home, From Green to Red from the album Montagu Square
Little Moth from the album Raw Space all by Beatie Wolfe
Postcards for democracy with composer Mark Mothersbaugh
IG: @postcardsfordemocracy
Film: Orange Juice for the Ears
Podcast: Orange Juice for the Ears
Artist on playlist: songwriter Allee Willis - September and Boogie Wonderland - Earth Wind and Fire; Friends theme tune I’ll be there for you
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Every city has its ‘scene’ those spaces where groups of people with a similar aesthetic, value system or art discipline or music style find each other. Well in London the jazz, soul, session musician scene is on one hand really big yet on the other really tiny - everyone knows each other and if they don’t, they’ll know someone who knows someone you know. And it’s through this same scene that I met today’s guest, vocalist and songwriter Heidi Vogel.
Heidi has toured the world opening for artists such as Erykah Badu; performed at Montreux Jazz festival for Quincy Jones; performed at many of the world’s major festivals and on the finest stages including Cape Town Jazz Festival, London’s Royal Albert Hall, Glastonbury, the Sydney Opera House, Coachella, Central Park Summerstage in New York, North Sea Jazz & Blue Note Jazz Festivals. She’s performed and/or recorded with some incredible artists, Bobby Mcferrin, Thundercat, Isaac Hayes, Moses Sumney, Miguel Attwood Ferguson, Chick Korea, Hermeto Pascoal and some of the UK’s most established artists on the scene (that seen I was telling you about) Soweto Kinch, Tawiah, Roots Manuva, Ty, Terry Walker to name a few.
We talk about our love of making lists and reaching musical milestones that seem to elude us. This was a really honest conversation about what it’s like being a working musician, about lifelong learning, about being too hard on yourself at times because I think artists who are really passionate about what they do live, to quote Heidi in ‘devotion to the art’.
You’ll hear a lot of laughter and a lot of reminiscing and hopefully you’ll not only hear a beautiful voice but a generous, open and deep-thinking person.
Guest: Heidi Vogel
Title: I’m on a journey of who I want to become as a musician
IG: @heidilevo
Heidi’s songs from her album 'Turn up the Quiet':
Medo De Amar
Dindi (feat. Austin Peralta)
Modinha
Black Narcissus
Artists on playlist: Baby Rose, Thundercat, H.E.R, Summer Walker
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My guest on today’s episode of Holding Up the Ladder is art writer, curator, advisor and founder of Black British Art, Lisa Anderson.
With a background in international relations and an MA in Human Rights, Lisa’s love of art and curation was sparked while at university - it’s an intimate story, one that I’ll leave her to share in her own words.
We talk about identity, belonging, the importance of representation, of seeing oneself in the world around us, not just in our homes but in culture. We talk about London, about Britishness about Black Britishness. We talk about being part of a London ‘scene’ and as always we talk about music.
Guest: Lisa Anderson
Title: I’ve always sought art that I could see myself in
Website: https://lisaandersonartadvisory.com/
Black British Art Instagram: @blackbritishart
Lisa Anderson Art Advisory Instagram: @lisaandersonaa
Article link
Spotify: Broken Beat Playlist
Artists Lisa loves:
Adelaide Damoah - Website & IG
Enam Gbewonyo - Website & IG
Irvin Pascal - Website & IG
Rachel Jones - Website
Jadé Fadojutimi - Website & IG
Shannon Bono - Website & IG
Michaela Yearwood-Dan - Website & IG
Artists on Lisa's playlist:
The Clark Sisters
Hezekiah Walker
Christian Scott
Blue Lab Beats
Beyonce
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The trailer for Season 2 is here!
Episode 1, Season 2 out on Friday 16th October 2020!
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What a perfect way to end the first season of Holding Up the Ladder with my guest today Dr Susan Rogers. For those of you who may not know, Susan is most famous for being Prince’s sound engineer - she’s responsible for recording (in my opinion) some of Prince’s best work, Purple Rain, Sign “O” The Times, Around the World in a Day, and Parade.
Susan Rogers started off as a studio maintenance technician for Crosby Stills & Nash in Hollywood, she responded to an advert looking for a technician for Prince and got the job. I won’t spoil the story, I’ll let her tell you herself about her time working with Prince, but needless to say it was life changing. She then went on to engineer and produce for a diverse roster of artists including David Byrne, Bare Naked Ladies, The Jacksons, Tevin Campbell, Paul Westerberg, Geggy Tah and Tricky.
Susan then moved into neuroscience and has a doctorate in psychology from McGill University in the States, where she studied music cognition and psychoacoustics. She’s now a professor at Berklee in Boston and is the director of the Berklee Music Perception and Cognition Laboratory. She’s currently writing a book and has completed a research paper about how we listen and respond to music and the rewards we get from it. Susan Rogers also launched along with Matthew McArthur Boston's first nonprofit recording studio, ‘The Record Company’, that offers low-cost recording facilities and free music technology teaching to musicians and teens.
We talk about the process of making albums, about the science and artistry of engineering, the difference between analog tape and modern music-making, about how our brains and bodies respond to music, why some people respond to one form of rhythm over another. We talk about artists that inspire us and of course we talk all things Prince!
Guest: Dr Susan Rogers
Title: There’s a difference between knowing what you want and knowing who you are
Website: https://www.berklee.edu/people/susan-rogers
Talks on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/EgBZHIUUn8Q
https://youtu.be/JXcewgUup9M
https://youtu.be/8ON0nQCQF08
Music/producers/studios on playlist: Smokestack Lightnin’ from the album Moanin’ in the Moonlight by Howlin’ Wolf, Rick Hall from Muscle Shoals records, Sam Phillips from Sun Studios, Chess Records
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My happy place will always be talking to other musicians about music. Even with musicians I’m meeting for the first time, we start talking about music and by the end of our conversation, we’re firm friends. Which leads me on nicely to tell you about today’s guest songwriter, producer, musical director and composer Sarah deCourcy.
We met through another musician Mr Hudson (the Mr Hudson who’s collabed with Jay Z and Kanye West on Supernova & Forever Young). We started chatting about music as musicians do, kept in touch via Instagram, Sarah moved to LA (which you’ll hear more about in our conversation) and now we’re here and today’s interview.
Sarah was a child prodigy, she started playing the piano at 3, picked up the violin and was composing violin sonatas at the age of 8! We don’t have the audio, but I’ve put a picture of the sonata manuscript in my Instagram post so you can see how prodigious she was - at 8, I was playing chopsticks!
She was performing solo piano concertos at the Royal College of Music in Manchester, leading youth orchestras as a violinist, she won young composer of the year at 9 and young musician of the year at 11. She studied classical piano and film composition at The Royal Academy of Music in London and it was there that she got into contemporary music.
Sarah has worked as a live musical director & producer for Kylie Minogue. For those who aren’t from the UK or Australia, Kylie Minogue is like a national treasure for us - it’s a big deal! She’s musical directed for Nicole Scherzinger from the Pussy Cat dolls, UK pop band Little Mix and French artist Christophe Willem amongst others. She also works as a songwriter and producer, has had 12 top 10 record releases, 2 gold and 1 platinum album. She recently moved to LA to focus on film and TV composition.
Sarah wears many hats, she’s an engineer and built her own music studio from scratch. We talk about her foundation in classical music and how she draws upon it when writing mainstream pop music. The differences between live arena production vs studio album production and our mutual love of Justin Bieber! We talk about the importance of understanding the administrative and legal side of the music industry and knowing your worth not just as a musician, but as a female musician.
Guest: Sarah deCourcy
Title: That moment changed how I could output my creativity
Website: https://www.sarahdecourcy.com/
IG: @Sarahdecourcydc
Music Excerpts: ‘Terminus Elite’ and ‘Barren Lands’ score cues by Sarah deCourcy & Kylie Minogue’s live show 'Spinning Around'
To see image of solo violin sonata written when Sarah was 8 go to IG post here
Albums on playlist: Nick Cave & Warren Ellis The Proposition, Sleep by Max Richter, Mica Levi Under the Skin
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One of my rituals when I go to the cinema (remember the cinema? The place with the big screen where you sit in the dark next to lots of people and have a collective experience?) Well, when I go I like to sit through all the credits at the end because I’m always amazed at how many people it takes to make something that’s 90 minutes long. It’s such a vast network of vital, interconnecting people. And one of those vital people is a music supervisor. I like to think of them as a DJ or selector for a movie but of course it’s far more complicated than that. Which is why I have on today’s episode, Lucy Bright to tell us more about it.
With a degree in History of Art, Lucy started out at Mute Records during her gap year Mute records represent the likes of Nick Cave, New Order, Depeche Mode, and Goldfrapp. She then moved to Warner Classics for six years before leaving to manage acclaimed composer Michael Nyman - he wrote the music for the Oscar winning film The Piano & The 2018 Alexander McQueen documentary amongst many others. She was at music publishing company Music Sales for 10 years overseeing an extraordinary roster of film composers including Gabriel Yared (Cold Mountain,The English Patient), Ludovico Einaudi, Philip Glass, Nico Muhly (The Reader), Hildur Guðnadóttir (the woman who won the Oscar and every award going this year for her scoring of Joker). This year Lucy is starting a new venture with the launch of her own music publishing company, Bright Notion Music.
Lucy has music supervised some of the most critically-acclaimed British films of recent years: Samantha Morton’s directorial debut The Unloved, Lynne Ramsey’s The Swimmer, John Maclean’s Slow West, Justin Kurzel’s Assassin’s Creed, Michael Almereyda’s Marjorie Prime and Sean Durkin’s The Nest starring Jude Law and Carrie Coon which premiered at Sundance Film Festival 2020. Her work in television is equally renowned including Southcliffe, McMafia and Shane Meadows’s This is England ‘90 and The Virtues. She is currently working on TV drama Little Birds for Sky Atlantic and LIFE for BBC One (jointly with Catherine Grieves).
We talk about her journey into music supervision, what inspires her, the role of a composer within the context of film, the under-representation of female composers in the film industry, and the lessons learned along the way.
Guest: Lucy Bright
Title: The artist is the film director and you are there to serve their vision
Instagram: @lightlightbright
Albums/Artists on playlist: Bob Dylan Oh Mercy, Leonard Cohen, Memories from the album Death of a Ladies’ Man and Rob Simonsen Reveries
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Let’s talk about us- Let’s talk about who we come from, about the kind of world we want to live in and leave for future generations, the communities we want to build and how to do that. Let’s talk about kindness and compassion, freedom and gentleness, about struggle, the struggle for power and how to challenge it, let’s talk about change about getting into trouble, about justice and fairness. Let’s talk about creativity and creating beauty. about the body, about creating safe spaces for the body and spaces for the body to heal - let’s talk about us.
I’m not usually a fan of reeling off people’s accomplishments, it can be counter productive particularly as I want to move away from attaching personal value to someone's qualifications or achievements, you know this idea that you have more value if you have the right education or come from the right background and less if you don’t fulfil this constructed criteria. But in light of what we’re going to talk about today, I think knowing a little bit about the background of today’s guest will help frame some of the complex issues we discuss.
So, with that in mind, let me tell you about Jessica Horn. An alumna of Smith College (the alma mater of Gloria Steinem, Sylvia Plath and Otelia Cromwell, the first black woman to receive a doctorate from Yale) Jessica is a women’s rights/gender equality expert, writer, academic, activist and poet. She is Director of Programmes at the African Women's Development Fund, has visited 54 countries, lived in 8 on 4 different continents, including Fiji, Lesotho, Pakistan and the States amongst others. She’s a polymath - I know we bandy that word about a lot these days, but hidden in the meaning, namely ‘someone who knows a lot about many different subjects’ is a curiosity. And underneath that curiosity is a deep compassion and I believe that it is that compassion that drives her desire for justice and fairness for people, for women, for African women.
We talk about activism, African feminism, poetry, motherhood, her love of beauty and how it impacts her need to create and of course, we talk about music.
Guest: Jessica Horn
Title: Re-membering the body, remembering delight
Website: http://www.stillsherises.com/
Twitter: @stillSHErises
Poetry: Speaking in Tongues can be found in poetry anthology, The Mouthmark Book of Poetry
On Tattoos & scarification: https://www.thetempleofherskin.com/
Artists on her playlist: Oliver Nelson and Ria Boss
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There are some conversations that linger - like a meal that reminds you not only of the food you ate but the people you shared it with, or a fragrance that triggers a memory - I have that with sunscreen it always transports me to being on holiday.
I was speaking with an artist friend of mine about our need to be inspired, it’s the engine of our creativity. And because of that I like to create moments or find beauty in moments, almost like a well of memory to draw from. And I have some favourite moments: London in the summertime, spending all afternoon in the park with friends, cycling home around 930pm the sky a velvety inky indigo, the breeze rushing passed my ears. The light in Johannesburg before midday, it’s a crystalline light, as if to remind you that anything is possible. Coffee first thing in the morning, quiet with my thoughts, being around children who remind me to keep it simple and look for the wonder.
What’s any of this got to do with today’s interview you may ask? Well, everything. Speaking to South African photographer and director Justice Mukheli was for me another one of those moments, of creating memory.
I first fell upon Justice’s work about 7 years ago through his blog ‘I see a different you’ a site dedicated to showing South African youth style through the lens of the people who wore the clothes, a way of reframing a traditional South African narrative. We talk about his journey into photography and directing, about his beautiful, art-filled richly creative childhood, about honouring the legacy of those who paved the way during the apartheid struggle, furthering the next generation of artists, and to put it in Justice’s words, art as a way to ‘archive emotion’.
As a songwriter, I write from the images I see in my mind until the words and the images weave in and out of each other. Many times during this interview Justice describes an event or a childhood memory that flooded my mind with pictures - there were a number of times during our conversation where I just wanted to stop and reflect on what he said but remembered I was conducting an interview!
I know I’m being particularly effusive about this guest, but I found it to be a truly special conversation. I think listening to Justice speak you’ll see what I mean.
Guest: Justice Mukheli
Title: Justice Mukheli - It’s an emotional interrogation that’s happening inside of me
Website: https://www.justicemukheli.com/
IG: @justicemukheli
Artists on his playlist: Melodiesinfonie & Dorj; Homeshake & Justice Der
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I have a confession to make - I don’t really understand art! I studied languages at school, but the more you learn languages you realise that you’re really only learning the basics to get by - how to ask for directions, how to order a beer at a restaurant! That’s how I feel about art- my understanding feels very surface level. But the right person will open up your understanding to see things in a new way. Thomas J Price did just that as he walked me through his practice.
A multi-disciplinary artist Thomas works across the mediums of sculpture, film, photography and performance. He studied at Chelsea College and received an MA from the Royal College of Arts in 2006. His work is ‘a wider exploration of racial and social identity, perception and representation’.
There’s a deliberateness, a decisiveness about Thomas’ work - but it’s in the ordinary his figures don’t stand boldly, they’re not muscular with their chests out in a heroic stance, no, they have their hands in their pockets, or they’re playing with their phone, they may even be slouching, their expressions are blank. But here’s the thing, it’s the monumentalising of the ordinary that critiques what we consider important, what we consider valuable, what we give public space to.
We talk about his journey into the arts, from a potential career in the Royal Marines to artist, notions of identity, of black male identity and taking space unapologetically. We talk about removing or replacing racially charged public monuments. How does art speak to culture, how does art challenge, why does it challenge? And of course, we talk about music.
Guest: Thomas J Price
Title: Thomas J Price - Critiquing the monumental
Website: http://www.thomasjprice.com/
IG: @thomasjprice_
Twitter: @TJPStudio
Album on playlist: Abdullah Ibrahim, Senzo
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Bonus Episode - We owe it all to the music
One of the things I love most about music isn’t just the making it, but the relationships I’ve made because of it - in fact I can’t separate the two, to me, everything is relational. The people I’ve met through music have become some of my most cherished friendships, it’s a very unique thing, hard to explain sometimes, but it’s indelible like a tattoo.
And so, I want to tell you about a person that has embedded themselves under my skin, someone who held up the ladder for me, someone I met through music who became a dear dear friend. It’s the story of my friend Ian Toothill, who was my bass player, he became my close friend and roommate, became the first man with cancer to climb Mount Everest and passed away from that cancer 2 years ago.
Because by now you know how much I love storytelling, this episode will be slightly different in that I will tell you about our friendship through story but you will hear clips of real interactions - you’ll hear excerpts of jam sessions we had in the living room and our ‘What’s App’ exchanges while he was in Tibet. This isn’t a story about cancer, it’s a story about friendship, it’s a story about music.
Songs: 'How does your garden grow?' by Matshidiso & jam sessions taken from 2011
To see full news interview click here
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This is the story of how the idea for Holding Up the Ladder came about!
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If ever a discussion exemplifies why I’m so fascinated about process, the conversation you’re about to hear is it - the voice. What started as my desire to remove some of the taboos around vocal health and singing teachers (this was just meant to be a short bonus episode) turned into a far deeper conversation.
Rob Cates is an elite vocal coach professional, one of only a handful vocal coaches accredited by Vocology in Practice in the UK - he teaches commercial artists, musical theatre singers, actors, Gospel singers both in the UK and internationally. He also coaches various choirs and regularly leads workshops and training events.
I’ve known Rob for nearly 10 years and I don’t know anyone who understands the voice like he does and is also so passionate about it, you’ll hear that passion come through in this interview.
Rob shares so many nuggets, so many pearls of wisdom. We talk about the complexity and uniqueness of the voice, how the sound of the voice changes according to not only location, but neighbourhood to neighbourhood and street to street! We talk about how the instrument of the voice is inseparable from the person themselves - we talk about vulnerability, how mental health and trauma impacts the voice, we even talk about Usain Bolt and how sport’s psychology has impacted vocal research!
Guest: Rob Cates
Title: Rob Cates, Our voice speaks of who we are
Website: https://robcatesvoice.com/
Artist on playlist: Jon Thurlow - https://youtu.be/W-uZGRI6_2A
Example of Judi Dench singing ‘Send in the Clowns’ mentioned by Rob in interview https://youtu.be/yvZex3Qf7QQ
Example of belt -Jennifer Hudson singing ‘Golden Slumbers/Carry the Weight. (listen between 2.04-2.14 for great belting) — https://youtu.be/T71MYh8kqZc
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Mpho Sebina is a singer songwriter hailing from Botswana. I discovered her music through mutual friends who’d shot some of her videos. There’s something about her voice- it’s soothing, transporting, ethereal yet grounded, full of emotion, I just love it!
Hailing from Botswana, Mpho studied international business in Malaysia before pursuing a full time career in music. And I’m glad she did, music is better off with her in it.
In 2017 she released a 6-track EP, Neo, released a single called Masa with Thato Jessica in 2019 and is currently working on new material that I hope we get to hear very soon. We talk about her musical trajectory - shifting from studying business to a career in music. We talk about her influences, singing in her native Setswana - of which personally I’m a huge fan, Setswana is such a lyrical language. Mpho is softly spoken, even her speaking voice is soothing and melodic, I think you’ll see what I mean…
Guest: Mpho Sebina
Title: Mpho Sebina - Masa, tapping into my Setswana heritage
Song Excerpts: No Evil and Loves Light by Mpho Sebina and Masa by Mpho Sebina and Thato Jessica
IG: @mphosebina
Song on playlist: Moonga K - Heartbeat 8
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I like clever women, I like talking to clever women. They’re women who are curious, thinking, women who know and love themselves and because they love themselves you can hear it and see it in the work they make, continually exploring the reaches of their creativity. Singer, songwriter, cellist and composer Ayanna Witter-Johnson is one of those women.
Clever women also seem to have done a lot, they have a lot of qualifications, here’s a quick summary - Ayanna graduated with a first from both Trinity Laban Conservatoire of Music and Dance and the Manhattan School of Music. She’s been a featured artist with saxophonist Courtney Pine’s Afropeans: Jazz Warriors, a member of sitarist Anoushka Shankar’s Traces of You album tour and is the only non-American to have won amateur night live at the Apollo theatre in Harlem New York.
She’s released 3 EPs, through her own label Hill And Gully records and her full length album Road Runner, came out last year.
We talk about Ayanna’s journey from a place at Cambridge to study French and Spanish to a scholarship at the Manhattan school of music. From classical music composition and orchestration to jazz, songwriting and life as a performer. We talk about incorporating the cello, which she’s named Reuben, into her performance. Valuing her creative independence and our mutual love of 90’s hip hop and RnB.
Guest: Ayanna Witter-Johnson
Song excerpts: Crossroads, Wooden Woman & Playground from the album Road Runner and Ain’t I A Woman all by Ayanna Witter-Johnson
Website: http://www.ayannamusic.com/
IG: @ayannawj
Youtube: AyannaWJ
Artist on playlist: Leroy Burgess
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Title: Motheo Moeng - ‘For the longest time, cinematography was very political’
Motheo Moeng is a cinematographer and photographer from South Africa. His work is wide-ranging. He’s worked on feature films including “Thina sobabili (meaning The two of us) which won numerous awards at film festivals in Los Angeles, Johannesburg, Rwanda and was selected as the South African feature for the 88th Academy Awards. He’s done TV for Ben Sherman & Red Bull. Award winning short films; music videos including Blick Bassy’s Woni and In the castle of my skin for Sons of Kemet and more recently a feature film & drama series for Netflix - Kagiso Lediga’s Catching Feelings and South African spy drama Queen Sono that came out in Feb this year.
I loved talking to Motheo, I learnt so much about how he sees the world, literally through his lens. We talk about his love of storytelling, particularly storytelling from an African perspective, we talk about how his childhood impacted his love of light and lighting black skin, cinematographers that inspire him, representing the African continent on a global stage and of course, music.
Guest: Motheo Moeng
IG: @motheomodaguru and @motheophotography
Song Excerpt: 'Running' by Matshidiso
Album on his playlist: Jay Electronica: A Written Testimony
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I met Alev on Instagram like many people do these days. The thing that struck me most about her before I even knew her music was her generosity - she invited me to her album launch before we’d even met in person, and from the outset has been really open, authentic and generous with her time and ideas - and that generosity is evident in her music, there’s a care, a thoughtfulness. You’ll hear it in the words, the song arrangements that are as considered and as authentic as she is - I trust you’ll get a sense of that in this interview.
Alev released her first album in 2009, Storytelling Piano Playing Fräulein, her sophomore record Two-Headed Girl came out in 2016 and her latest album 3 came out at the end of last year. Her music has featured on critically acclaimed tv shows, Netflix series Dark and Black Mirror. She’s written, co-produced and performed with acclaimed sitar player, Anoushka Shankar and has also worked in close collaboration with Spitfire Audio creating an interactive sound library, but I’ll let her tell you more about that herself.
Song Excerpt: 'The Chair' by Alev Lenz
Album on her playlist: Claudja Barry: Sweet Dynamite
Website: https://www.alevlenz.com/
IG: @alev_lenz
Youtube: AlevLenzOfficial
Spitfire Audio: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/alev-lenz-3/
Credits
Graphic Design: Carolyne Hill - http://www.carolynehill.com/
IG: @chillcreate
Theme music: Matshidiso
IG: @matshidisomusic
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I’m Matshidiso, a musician, songwriter, producer and composer. I’m fascinated by process – how we make what we make, why we make what we make. As a musician, I’m always learning from and inspired by other creatives, other musicians, artists, the arts itself, people, in short life, all inform the music I make. And I think that learning from others enriches not only our own art, but the arts.
And why ‘Holding up the ladder?’ Because we’re all trying to get somewhere and I think we build something stronger if we help each other, if we ‘hold up the ladder’ rather than pull it up from under us as we climb.
I’ll be talking to all kinds of creatives about process, lessons learned, things that inspire us, the music we’re listening to, what makes us who we are and the help we’ve had along the way. So, join me as we climb, holding up the ladder!
https://www.holdinguptheladder.com/