B2B Q&A | Your B2B content questions, answered: Recent Episodes
Radix Communications
It's a simple concept. You pose a question about B2B content writing; we go in search of an expert to answer it. Along the way, you'll hear copywriting hints and tips, and commentary on the key issues in B2B content marketing. It's all brought to you by the B2B tech writers at Radix Communications.
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We’re joined by two marketing and messaging experts to explore how you can find continuity in your B2B content, even if everything else changes.
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Account-based marketing owes a lot of its power to the way its content can speak to this reader in particular, and address their unique needs. But how much tailoring is too much?
That’s the question we’ll be tackling in this episode of B2BQ&A, on behalf of Rhiannon Blackwell, Account-Based Marketing Leader at PwC.
Specifically, Rhiannon asked:
“How do you strike the right balance between your brand voice and messaging and hyper-relevance with a client, for example, by using their language?”
To answer Rhiannon’s great question, we’re thrilled to welcome two further well-known experts from the world of ABM. Our special interview guest is Andrea Clatworthy, Head of Marketing Transformation in Europe for Fujitsu, while our guest co-host Judy Wilks is International ABM and Executive Content Lead at Autodesk.
Along with Radix’s own David McGuire, we try to get to the bottom of how to show a customer or prospect you really understand them withough being, well, creepy.
But wait; there’s more. You’ll also hear an essential copywriting pro tip from Sarah Mullaney, freelance copywriter and content writer, and owner of She’s a Writer.
You’ll find a full transcript of this episode at the end of this post.
Need to balance relevance for the client and your own brand voice? Here are the key takeaways from the podcast:1. Use the client’s languageIt’s important to mimic the language your clients use when they talk about their business. Make sure that everything you say to them, you put in the context of their brand – not your own. According to Andrea, “It could be as simple as just recognising whether a client calls their customers “customers”, or “consumers”, or even “clients”.
2. Focus on your customer’s worries, not your brandRelevance to the reader is all-important in ABM, but it can be especially tough to find that blend between what the brand wants to say – and how it wants to say it – and what the reader needs to read. As Andrea explains: “Whilst your brand is important to the customer, it’s not the primary thing that they are worrying about.”
3. Be careful how you use researchWith a lot of B2B content, there’s a temptation to show more of your research than you should. But in ABM, the risks of getting it wrong are even greater, so be careful – if you tell your reader things they already know, you’re not going to get very far. And remember, there’s a fine line between “personalised” and “creepy”.
4. Understand how people consume contentFinding out how your audience consumes information can give you a good indicator of how to deliver your content. “It’s worth the effort to find out if a client is turned on by numbers and graphs,” says Andrea. “Or if they prefer video over written, or they like snackable content rather than long-form. Figuring that out can be really helpful.”
5. Don’t tell the client you get them – show themThis golden rule holds true for any writing, but if your ABM content can show an understanding of your reader’s business (without telling them their business) you can provoke a powerful response. As Andrea explains: “If you get it right, the reader or, if you like, the consumer of your writing, will have a positive emotional reaction. And they’ll be more likely to share content internally and be your advocate.”
Want some further reading? Here are the sources Andrea mentions: For a great primer on ABM, Andrea recommends Bev Burgess and Dave Munn’s excellent book A Practitioner’s Guide to Account-Based Marketing.* * If you want to gain an insight into how people like to consume information, a good starting point for Andrea is DiSC® profiling.
Here’s what you can expect in this episode… 4:01 – David poses Rhiannon Blackwell’s question to Andrea Clatworthy.
15:00 – Co-host Judy Wilks gives her thoughts on Andrea’s insights.
21:58 – Judy and David discuss the fine line between “personalised” and “creepy”.
24:23 – Sarah Mullaney from She’s a Writer shares a copywriting pro tip.
25:05 – David updates us on the search for the best B2B content of all time. Ever.
Got a question? We’ll find the answer.To get your burning B2B content question answered, just send us a voice memo at podcast@radix-communications.com. And if there are any other thoughts you’d like to share, you can connect with us on LinkedIn and Twitter: @radixcom.
How to listen: * You can download the episode here (right-click and select “Save As”). * Or you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts. * Alternatively, add our RSS to your preferred podcast player.
Credits Thanks to Andrea Clatworthy for sharing so many ABM insights. * Heartfelt appreciation to Rhiannon Blackwell for her question. * Cheers to Sarah Mullaney for sharing a fantastic copywriting pro tip. * And enormous gratitude to Judy Wilks* for being an excellent guest co-host.
Podcast editing and music by Bang and Smash.
Transcript: B2BQ&A 111 – How can ABM content balance relevance and brand voice?Rhiannon Blackwell: How do you strike the right balance between your brand voice and messaging and hyper-relevance with a client? For example, by using their language.
Judy Wilks: Well, what a great question from Rhiannon, and something that’s very close to my heart. Let’s ask Andrea Clatworthy of Fujitsu, what she thinks.
David McGuire: Hello, listener, and welcome to B2BQ&A, the podcast where we go in search of an answer to your question about B2B content writing. This is episode 111.
Judy: Account Based Marketing, or ABM for short, relies on your content talking to a very specific audience about their very specific needs and concerns. But the big question is: how do you balance that with delivering your own messaging and brand voice at the same time?
In a few moments, ABM expert Andrea Clatworthy will answer that very question posed by our friend and colleague, Rhiannon Blackwell of PwC.
Plus, we’ll hear a copywriting pro tip from Sarah Mullaney and get an update on your search for the best B2B content of all time.
David: Before all that, let’s do some introductions.
My name is David McGuire. I’m Creative Director at Radix Communications, the B2B writing agency, and I’m delighted to say that we have another ABM leader as our co-host for this episode. It’s Judy Wilks, International ABM and Executive Content Lead at Autodesk.
Judy, thank you so much for joining us.
Judy: Thank you for having me. I’m very happy to be here.
David: That’s some job title. What does it actually involve?
Judy: That’s a very good question. So, in a nutshell, our team designs and creates content that does two things: content that fuels regional ABM programs and content that fuels global executive engagement within Autodesk.
David: So, from that point of view, as well as Andrea’s viewpoint, which we’ll get in a minute, you’re very well placed to help us answer Rhiannon’s question as well. So, that’s amazing. Thank you so much.
Before we get on to that, though, would you mind performing your first official duty as our co-host and telling the listener how they can get in touch with us?
Judy: Absolutely.
So, listener, if you have any comments or suggestions, you can find Radix on LinkedIn or Twitter: @radixcom. Or, if you want us to answer your question in a future episode, just record a quick voice note and send it in by email: podcast@radix-communications.com.
David: That’s amazing. Thank you.
Judy: Now it’s time for our B2B Q&A for this episode. It comes from someone I know well from the ABM circuit; it’s PwC’s ABM leader for global marketing, Rhiannon Blackwell.
Rhiannon: How do you strike the right balance between your brand voice and messaging and hyper-relevance with a client – for example, by using their language,
David: Thanks, Rhiannon. It feels like we have a lot of ABM experts on the show today, which is great, because this really is an important question.
Relevance to the reader is all-important in ABM. When we’re writing ABM content, it can be especially tough to find that blend between what the brand wants to say and how it wants to say it, and what the reader needs to read.
So, how can you strike that balance? Well, I asked Fujitsu’s Head of Marketing Transformation in Europe and long-time ABM evangelist, Andrea Clatworthy. And I started by asking her Rhiannon’s question: just how do you balance client relevance and brand voice?
Andrea Clatworthy: This is such a great question. And it’s not an uncommon one.
It’s like a “depends” answer, which is never a good one, but I think it’s right to find the balance. And so thinking about it depends. For instance, if what you’re trying to do with your customer is perhaps reposition yourself, then you probably want to dial down your brand a little bit – without breaking the rules – and use more of the customer’s voice.
If perhaps it’s a new customer, or it’s new territory for you and you’re trying to break in, then perhaps you want to dial up your brand whilst recognising their voice. So it’s a really fine line.
And I find what we try and do when we’re creating the story and the narrative and the value proposition, we’re thinking all the time about what’s important to the customer. And whilst your brand is important to the customer, it’s not the primary thing that they’re worrying about. I would edge towards dialling it down just a little bit, but don’t break the guidelines.
I think it’s really important not to break your brand guidelines because they’re there for a reason. But you can stretch them. And you can take some liberties… perhaps.
Having said that, sometimes it’s appropriate to use some of the branding elements that your customer might have. So perhaps they’ve got an imagery style that you want to mimic rather than be 100% them.
Or it depends on what the communication is that you’re going to be providing. So, supposing it’s in the form of an infographic or something, as part of a conversation, and you want, you expect, and you’d love them to then use that asset, that you’ve created for them, with their stakeholders in their company, as part of their business case process if you like. Then you might want to make it slightly more their brand.
So, even though it looks like yours, and you’re suggesting this awesome thing, it’s easier for them to reuse that asset.
David: And that makes their life easier and turns them into kind of a representative of you. And I guess that goes for both brand elements, design-wise, but then also if they have a particular vocabulary, like a particular way of talking about a subject or an issue.
Andrea: Yes, there might be a project name that they use, or it could be as simple as just recognising whether they call their customers “customers”, or “clients”, or “consumers”? So, use the language that they use when they talk about their business.
David: Is there a chance, though, that a writer working on ABM Content could almost be too keen to show how much research they’ve done? And end up either telling the reader something they already know? Or just being a bit creepy?
Andrea: Yeah, that creepy thing is spot on, isn’t it? And actually, it’s relatively easy to get it wrong and I’ll give you an example of somebody pitching to me.
So, I’m a gamer. And somebody came in to see me, I reached out to them and said, you know, tell me stuff about your proposition. And they came to me, and they’ve ABMed and done everything personalised and tailored to me, which is great. And they focused on this gamer aspect. And I like a particular type of game, but they pitched to me using first-person fighter game, and they’re not the sorts of games that I like.
So they got the gaming bit, right, but they got the type of gaming bit wrong. So instantly, I’m kind of like: this is a bit creepy, and it’s wrong. So I gave them that feedback, you know, say thanks ever so much. It was so nearly right but made it completely wrong.
So using that research correctly is a trick there.
David: And I guess that must be easier – or maybe riskier – if you’re writing to accounts that you know well.
Andrea: If it’s an existing account, it’s much easier to get that balance right, because you know them and you’re in dialogue all the time, and you know completely what you’re doing. And the marketing part of that ongoing engagement will be reflective of the conversations that the account team or whoever is having.
So it’s much easier to get that right; it’s much harder when you don’t really know who you’re talking to. Then you probably edge a bit more on your brand, but reflect the language that you know that they use.
David: And when you’re doing your research in that case, and you’re thinking about the challenges they’re facing, and how your products and solutions can match that, how much are you thinking about the position that the company’s in? And how much are you thinking about the individual role? Like, are you thinking, “Oh, this is a company in the retail sector,” or are you thinking, “This is a CTO,” or whatever?
Andrea: It’s a bit of both to be quite honest. And then a bit contextual.
A company in the retail sector might be in growth mode, or they might be in massive reduction mode, as we’re seeing happening across the piece, they’re just reflecting where they are, because the language that you use might be slightly different.
If they’re in growth mode, and they’re being really prosperous, then they’re going to have a slightly different outlook on any future investments that they’re going to make, compared to if they need to reduce in one shape or form whether that’s people, or stores, or whatever. So it is both.
That persona piece is important too. So if it’s a CTO, then you know, there’s loads of work on personas and I think most people are probably reasonably comfortable with those.
But, then if you know who that CTO is, as a human being, then picking up on some of those things is equally important if you can get it right.
So I think that there are a few bits to this. There’s a bit about emotion. If you get it right, the reader, if you like the consumer of your writing, copy, assets – whatever it is – they have a positive emotional reaction, hopefully. And then they’re more likely to continue the conversation or, you know, share internally, and be your advocate. So, that’s a very clear signal.
David: I’m interested in the emotional response. What kind of response is that? Is that kind of a relief at feeling seen; that someone is recognising what they’re struggling with? Is it kind of delight and surprise, like, what sort of emotions are you seeing from the best content that you send?
Andrea: Yeah, those ones, and “relief” is a great word. Because actually, if you get the personalisation bit right, and what you’re suggesting you can help them with is right as well, then that’s the combo, because what you want people to do is to choose you above everybody else.
So, if you’ve delivered those messages correctly, you can kind of get a sense that these people get me and I can see how we could work together. And they’re going to solve a business problem one way, shape, or form, whatever that might be, with me when I choose to work with them.
So, it’s a bit of euphoria as well, I guess,
David: It’s not adding on something to make them feel emotional. It’s actually listening and thinking about what they really need, and then expressing that in a really kind of clear and impactful way.
Andrea: I think you’re spot on. That listening piece is really important, isn’t it? If you think about the old elephant adage: two big ears so do the listening first. If you get that right, then it can really help.
Now, how do you listen? That would be the next question.
We can read stuff, right? But quite often, if you’ve got an account team in with that account, they’re really getting to know those people, that person. So that they’re your primary source of that first-party insight if you like. It’s really important to include them in the process that you’re going through to create whatever it is you’re creating.
David: Okay, so we’ve thought about the branding, the voice, the vocabulary, and the kind of messaging that you’re aiming to deliver to make that connection. What else is important in ABM content that really works?
Andrea: Great question, again. I think it’s worth considering the format of the content that you’re going to be delivering.
Understanding how people consume information can give you a really good indicator of how to deliver that content. So, if somebody is very much numbers based, then think about making sure that there’s numbers and perhaps graphs.
If somebody likes to consume video over written, or perhaps they like snackable content rather than long form, and then working some of that out can be really helpful.
And clearly, you want to use omnichannel anyway. Don’t just rely on one thing.
There are some little things you can do. So you can use some DiSC profiling, for example, which will give you an indicator of the type of behaviours and brain workings, to use a non-technical term, that could determine how people like to consume information. So that’s quite a good starting point.
David: It’s really thinking about the individual and what they need, really in a kind of 360 way.
Andrea: Yeah, absolutely. And, we know, don’t we, as good marketeers, that different content and content formats work better at different stages of the customer journey. So, building that in as well to your comms plan is a good thing to do.
David: That’s amazing. Thank you.
So if the listener wants to find out more and really dive into the subject of creating really good ABM content, where do you suggest they go for more information?
Andrea: A really good starting point is a bit of reading. There’s a really great book by Bev Burgess called A Practitioner’s Guide to ABM. And it is a practitioner’s guide, so that’s a great place to start.
I’d also recommend reaching out to organisations like yourself, David.
David: [Laughs] Thank you very much; the cheque’s in the post
Thanks, Andrea, that’s great. It’s so helpful to know there’s no one right answer; you can dial your brand voice up and down – depending on the job your content needs to do.
Judy, what stood out for you there as an ABM leader?
Judy: Well, actually, “everything” is one answer. There was such a lot of great stuff in there and like a topic that I could talk about till the cows come home.
But there were two key things that Andrea said that I think are kind of foundational.
And number one is: never break the brand rules. That’s just a good starting point for any ABM. Not your brand rules, nor the client’s brand rules.
And then moving on, I pulled out this quote, and I wrote it down and I’m going to read it because I think it’s really essential to ABM.
Andrea said, “Whilst your brand is important to the customer, it’s not the primary thing that they are worrying about.” And that’s just absolutely crucial, you know. It’s a nice way of saying the customer doesn’t care about you or your brand. You have to make sure that everything you say to them, you put in the context of their business.
So what that means with getting that balance right between your brand and voice and theirs, is that if you, if your piece, either visually or stylistically shouts your brand, you’re actually not going to get your point across because your point in ABM is always: I understand your business. And if you’re shouting your brand, you’re not going to get that point across. So you need to think about that.
But, at the same time, it’s really powerful when you get it right that you can show the synergies between two brands.
David: So is it more complicated than the way the content sounds, the way the content looks, the vocabulary you choose, the register you write in, are maybe led by your brand, so that it’s recognisable, but the content, the stuff that you write about, the messaging, that kind of stuff is led by their priorities?
So maybe the content is about them, but the branding and the voice are about you? Or is it more nuanced than that?
Judy: I think that is your starting point. And then it depends.
I think you can look at it like a continuum. Absolutely, the content will always 100% be about them. That’s the starting point. But the continuum is then how much do you kind of shift the brand, the tone, the voice, the vocabulary, to reflect the customer, as well?
And that will depend on a couple of things. It will depend on: what is your level of awareness with that customer already, and what is the level of the relationship?
If, as Andrea said, you need to establish awareness with the customer, then you’re probably going to want to lean more towards your brand. But, if you’re at the partnership stage, then you might want to show how the two brands work together, so you really visually and stylistically get that partnership message across.
David: Yeah, and I guess, all of this with the proviso that when you talk about the vocabulary that you use, any specific terminology should be their terminology. So if they call their customers “clients”, or they call their customers “members”, for example, or if they have certain initiatives that they have their own language for, then you should absolutely adopt that rather than trying to impose your terminology on top of something that they would recognise.
Judy: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I don’t really have anything to add to that. I 100% agree.
David: With a lot of B2B content generally, there’s always a temptation, when you’ve done your research, to show maybe more of that research than you should and end up telling the reader things that they already know, to kind of show off how much you know.
I guess that’s an even stronger temptation, in ABM, given how much you will know about your particular audience, right?
Judy: Yeah. And this is a podcast so you couldn’t see me smiling then. But yes, absolutely. That is a real danger because as you say, you do a lot of research into the company and their business and you know a lot about them. And it’s ABM, so you really want to show them we understand your business. But if you just tell them what they already know about their business, you’re not going to get very far.
So I apply the adage here that you don’t tell someone you’re funny, you make them laugh. It’s the same thing: you don’t tell them everything you know about their business, you show that you understand their business by the recommendations that you make in the content.
And, let’s face it, you’re never going to know their business as well as they do. But the value that you bring is that you are an outside perspective. So you show them you understand their business, by adding that outside perspective to what you know about them – and perhaps sending them something they hadn’t thought of before.
David: Yeah, it’s the same thing as when I’m training copywriters in general how to do this stuff. OK, you’ve got this knowledge about them. So what?
So it’s not, you know, “Ah, this company has workforces on three different continents” or whatever it is, it’s “Because you have a workforce on three continents, you will need to handle time zones in this way or handle collaboration – and here’s a way that we can help you with that.”
Like, we’ve done the thinking around the “so what?” about the information that we have – we’re not just parroting back the information.
I think that’s obviously all the more important in ABM, and I think in any B2B content, that’s useful.
Judy: Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, in any content, the more you talk about the customer, and the more you show an understanding of their business – without telling them their business – then it’s going to be more powerful. So yes, that is exactly it.
Which takes thinking. It’s one thing to have a load of data, it’s another thing to then analyse that data. So, suddenly the writer is not just a writer, you know, the writer is suddenly an ABM strategist as well.
And, I always say, “Writing is thinking.” It’s not just about putting words on a page, you’ve got to have those thoughts first before you can then articulate them nicely on a page.
David: Yeah. Do you have any advice on how much of your research it’s even okay to show before you start to kind of worry them that you’re getting a bit creepy?
Judy: Well, now we’re talking about talking to the individual, and as well as talking to the company. And, the topic of creepy personalisation, as I often call it, comes up a lot in ABM. And, I think one good standard is to think: how would I feel if it happened to me?
So, for example, on my Twitter profile, I probably say I’m a cat fancier. But if someone gave a business presentation, and it had cats all over it and used cat analogies, or gifs… is that going to make me like them more?
David: Of course it is! Be honest…
Judy: All right, well, even if you take cats out of the equation, you know, that’s creepy. And we come back to what is the one key word that sums up ABM? It’s relevance. Are cats relevant to that conversation? No, they’re not.
I think it’s much more powerful, if yes, you do your homework about that person, but you also try and understand their values. What are their motivations? What’s their personality type?
So, don’t just kind of look at what they do out of work, “Oh, David plays golf, let’s put some golf analogies in here.” That’s not relevant.
But, if you understand their motivations and the type of person they are, then you can tailor the content in the right way. So for example, if I think of myself as a bit of a change agent – and typically, I’ll have plastered that all over LinkedIn – it won’t be very difficult to find. If I’m that type of person, then you need to position whatever you’re proposing as some bold, exciting, disruptive move.
That’s much more powerful than putting some images of cats or golf into your content.
David: Before we finish this episode, there are a couple more things we need to do. First, it’s time for our copywriting pro tip.
Voiceover: Copywriting pro tip.
Sarah Mullaney: My name is Sarah Mullaney, from She’s a Writer, and my B2B copywriting tip is to have core materials about the values or proof points of the client within reach when you’re writing about them.
You can use these to focus less on what services or solutions the clients are offering and keep bringing the copy back to why the client is a leader in their field and why their customers continue to use them.
This will help you to get into the mind of the reader writing the most purposeful and benefit-driven B2B copy for them.
Judy: Thanks, Sarah. That sounds like a really useful tip for making sure that you can stay on track during the day.
So, David, I gather that you have something to ask the listener.
David: Yeah, I do… To mark the 10th anniversary of this podcast, we’re continuing our search for the best B2B content of all time.
Now, in particular, we’d like the listeners’ help finding the best blog posts, case studies, and web content. There’s so much to choose from out there, it’d be really helpful if anyone could tell us where to focus our search.
All you need to do is to jot down one or two of your favourites and email them to us at vote@radix-communications.com. Or just fire them at us on LinkedIn or Twitter.
Anyway, Judy, thank you so much for co-hosting. It’s been so much fun to do this with you. I wish we had more time.
Judy: I know. Well, I’ve already said I could talk about this topic forever. So, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity.
And I guess while we’re at it, we should thank everybody else that’s been involved in this episode.
So, in no particular order, thank you, first of all, to Andrea Clatworthy, for answering the really great question. Thank you to Sarah Mullaney for the pro tip. And lastly, thank you to Rhiannon Blackwell for asking the question in the first place.
David: Rhiannon, I hope you feel that we have done you justice.
Remember listener, it could be your question we answer in a future episode.
Voiceover: If you have a question for B2BQ&A to answer, email a voice memo to podcast@radix-communications.com. Or find us on social media.
David: We’ll be back soon for another B2BQ&A.
Until then, make great content. And remember: a writer only begins the content; it’s the reader who finishes it. Well, either them or that stakeholder who won’t sign it off anyway.
David and Judy: Goodbye.
The post B2BQ&A 111: How can ABM content balance relevance and brand voice? appeared first on Radix.
Researching keywords is relatively easy in a popular B2C market – where data is plentiful and vocabulary is simple. But how do you find search intent in the rarefied world of B2B tech? That’s what Emily King from Bluefruit Software wants to know:
“It’s one thing to know what you call your product or service, but it’s another to know what your potential audience is actually using in their searches. So how do you find this out?”
Such an important question needs a very special guest… so we went straight to the top: Andy Crestodina from Orbit Media. Andy literally wrote the book on SEO and content marketing, and we’re thrilled to have him on the podcast.
And we don’t just have Andy’s sage advice for you. In this month’s episode, we’re joined by guest co-host Ruth Connor, Content Marketing Specialist at B2B Marketing and Propolis. You’ll also hear a copywriting pro tip from UX writer Fiorella Rizzà, and there’s news of an exciting challenge to mark the 10th anniversary of this podcast.
You’ll find a full transcript of this episode at the end of this post.
Want to find the right keywords for B2B tech? Here are Andy’s five tips:1. Embrace the B2B niche Writing for smaller companies that focus on niche B2B tech has opportunities in search that some of the bigger companies might miss.
Andy explains: “If you don’t have super-high domain authority, that’s a benefit because it pushes you towards key phrases that are less popular – but much more targeted. The niche is where the fun is: you can find phrases that a small number of people are searching for, but they’re thrilled when they find you. The click-through and conversion rates are high. It’s an enormous opportunity.
2. Prioritise the bottom of the funnelAndy recommends targeting the key phrases that indicate strong commercial or transaction intent – the person who has their wallet out, but just needs a bit of help.
“Start by optimising your homepage,” he advises. “That’s the page for which you have the best chance of ranking. Next, optimise your service pages. Those pages have strong intent; the visitor is looking for help – they need a service or a product.”
3. Empathy is the ultimate search marketing skill Andy suggests the ultimate source of keywords is your own audience.
“If you get asked the same question two or three times you should be answering that question in your content,” he says. “We listen out for the topics that our audience really, really cares about. We put plans in place to publish on those topics. And then, as we’re publishing, we look for keyword opportunities.”
4. Target key phrases for which the best answer is very long and detailedThe number of searches for which the click-through rate is zero keeps growing because Google’s Featured Snippets are so informative.
According to Andy: “We should all be looking for opportunities to write content that is keyword focused, but also where the answer to the question is deep and long with details.”
5. Don’t just rank high; be interestingThe days of fooling search engines with low-quality filler content are long gone. “You’re not doing SEO if you’re not sincerely trying to make one of the top 10 pages on the internet,” Andy proposes. “You have no right to rank if you made another medium-quality piece.”
“But also, as you do this, don’t forget to inject your own voice; say something that’s provocative or counterintuitive. Put people into your articles and include contributor quotes from people with interesting ideas.”
Further reading (and watching)… If you’d hear more from Andy, he publishes fortnightly on the Orbit Media blog. * Andy’s book, Content Chemistry, is now in its 6th edition. (If you’re in the UK, and like booksellers who pay their taxes, Blackwells stock it.) * Here’s Ruth’s nomination for the best B2B content ever: Vital Stats 1* by Earnest
Here’s what you can expect in this episode… 1:59 – Ruth Connor explains why the BBC is a role model for content atomisation
5:11 – David McGuire poses Emily King’s question to Andy Crestodina
13:54 – Ruth and David discuss personas and the importance of talking to customers
23:49 – UX writer Fiorelli Rizzà shares a copywriting pro tip
24:15 – David McGuire announces a new challenge to mark our 10th anniversary
Got a question? We’ll find the answer.To get your burning B2B content questions answered, just send us a voice memo at podcast@radix-communications.com. And if there are any other thoughts you’d like to share, you can find us on LinkedIn, or Twitter @radixcom.
How to listen: * You can download the episode here (right-click and select “Save As”) * Or you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts * Alternatively, add our RSS to your preferred podcast player
Credits Thank you, Andy Crestodina, for sharing so much SEO wisdom. * Cheers also to Fiorella Rizzà for this month’s copywriting pro tip. * And of course thanks to to Ruth Connor* – our excellent guest co-host.
Podcast editing and music by Bang and Smash.
Transcript: B2BQ&A 110 – How can you find the right SEO keywords for niche B2B content?Emily King: It’s one thing to know what you call your product or service, but it’s another to know what your potential audience is actually using in their searches. So how do you find this out?
Ruth Connor: That’s a brilliant question. Let’s ask Andy Crestodina from Orbit Media.
David McGuire: Hello listener, and welcome back to B2BQ&A, the podcast where we go in search of an answer to your question about B2B content writing. We’re back for a new season, and this is Episode 110.
Ruth: Wow, Episode 110. That feels pretty special.
David: 10 years.
Ruth: That’s incredible. That’s incredible. Well, in a few moments, we’re gonna hear from Andy Crestodina, the CMO and co-founder of Orbit Media studios, and all-round B2B SEO colossus. He’ll take a stab at answering this episode’s question: “Just how can you find the right keywords when you’re working in a super geeky B2B niche?” Or nitch as Americans would say.
David: They do, they do.
Ruth: Plus we’ll hear a copywriting pro tip from Content Designer and UX writer Fiorella Rizzà and we’ll reveal details of a new search to find the best B2B content of all time.
David: Before all that though: Who are we? Well, my name is David McGuire. I’m Creative Director at Radix Communications, a B2B writing agency. And our guest co-host for this episode, I’m delighted to say, is a consultant, B2B tech marketing director, and the resident content marketing expert and trainer for B2B Marketing and Propolis. It’s Ruth Connor! Ruth, welcome.
Ruth: Thank you very much, David, I’m really delighted to be here.
David: As a content marketing expert yourself, where do you find inspiration for content marketing?
Ruth: That’s a great question. And this is something I used to talk a lot about with my team. And we’d always look to actually the BBC and shows like Strictly Come Dancing, Line of Duty, and, more recently, Happy Valley. And that’s because I think the team at the Beeb do a great job of something I’m really passionate about when it comes to content marketing – which is recycling, reusing, and repurposing.
So, taking that big piece of hero content and turning it into loads of different spin-off pieces of content. And I think they do a great job in some of those shows. I think you know you’ve kind of cracked the content marketing nutshell when you find people producing their own content because they’re so passionate about those shows. And I think the last few weeks on social media and Happy Valley just shows the strength of the sentiment for those shows.
David: Wow. So if you’re in search of B2B marketing inspiration for your content, look to Happy Valley, look to Strictly and the way that they atomise things. That’s an amazing thought to start us off on this episode.
Before we get on to answering this episode’s question, though, Ruth, would you mind performing your first official duty as co-host, and telling the listener how they can get in touch with us?
Ruth: I’d love to David. Listener, if you have any comments or suggestions you can find Radix on LinkedIn (radix-communications-ltd) or Twitter (@radixcom).
Or if you want us to answer your question on a future episode, record a quick voice note and send it by email to: podcast@radix-communications.com.
David: That is perfect. Thank you so much.
Ruth: Now it’s time for the B2BQ&A for this episode. And our question comes from a very familiar voice.
Emily: Hi, B2BQ&A. This is Emily King from Bluefruit Software. I just had a question about how to effectively find out which keywords your target audience is using in their searches.
So, it’s one thing to know what you call your product or service, but it’s another to know what your potential audience is actually calling it and what they’re using in their searches. So, how do you find this out?
David: How lovely to hear from you again, Emily. Listener, in case you didn’t know, Emily actually started this podcast almost exactly 10 years ago. And for that, we’re endlessly grateful.
But anyway, let’s get on with Emily’s question, which speaks to a bigger point. How can you make SEO work for you when you’re dealing with niche B2B audiences and subjects? And do you reach a point where talking to your customers is better than doing digital research?
To answer we have an SEO and content marketing expert whom I’ve wanted to have on the podcast for basically as long as I can remember. Orbit Media CMO, Andy Crestodina publishes such helpful well-researched advice on digital content, I just knew he’d have something interesting to say here.
So I asked him Emily’s question: How can you find the right SEO keywords, when you work in a geeky B2B niche?
Andy Crestodina: If you’re in a B2B niche, especially a small one, you actually have big opportunities in search that some of the bigger companies might miss. So, it’s exciting to do SEO in a micro-niche for B2B. Niche companies tend to be smaller, which means in a way they have a bigger challenge because they don’t have super-high domain authority and difficulty ranking.
That actually is a benefit, it just pushes you towards the less competitive, longer tail, less popular – but also much more targeted – key phrases.
So it’s not a problem that you’re a smaller online player when you’re in a niche, when you’re targeting the more specific phrases, you can’t target the big general phrases. But those phrases are not as valuable as it might seem anyway, because you know less about the visitor; the visitor does not have strong intent.
People who search for single words or the business category, very hard to convert them, because they’re less likely to have a specific need to look for a specific answer to need a specific service.
So the niche is really where all the fun is, in B2B keyword research. You can find phrases that a small number of people are searching for, but they’re thrilled when they find you. The click-through rates are high, the conversion rates are high. So, it’s an enormous opportunity.
And it’s something that the big companies will often miss. So there’s plenty of blue ocean in those longer three-, four-, or five-word key phrases that others fail to catch or to target, and that you can really target and win what might just be a trickle of traffic, but they’re very passionate, very engaged visitors.
David: How hard is it to find out among that ocean of key phrases, which are the ones that your audience, in particular, are really interested in?
Andy: Every key phrase equals intent. So when you think about the true story in the life of the person who just typed that on their keyboard – and it’s happening right now, as we speak all over the world – the more specific the key phrase, the more you know about their information needs.
So if you think about keywords as being intent, you can target key phrases and therefore intent, that is at different stages in the person’s process, as they consider options. Some key phrases are simply information intent queries, they’re looking for an answer, they want to solve their problem themselves. They’re not at all interested in buying or becoming a lead event for anything.
Other key phrases indicate strong commercial or transaction intent. They’ve got their wallet out there ready to go, they know they need help, they’ve given up on every other option they need, they need help, they’re raising their hand, they need a service. So I would always prioritise beginning your keyword research and content, content marketing and conversion, copywriting and SEO, with the bottom of the funnel.
Start by targeting the key phrases that indicate the person really needs help. And those are generally going to be not content marketing; typically, they’re like service pages. Start by optimizing your homepage, as that’s the page for which you have the best chance of ranking.
Next, optimize your service pages. Those pages have strong intent, the visitor is looking for help they know they need, they need a service or a product. The problem with using software and tools to do your keyword research for you is that they don’t really know or care what your audience is looking for. They don’t know you; they don’t know them.
Sometimes, what you might think of as a blockbuster key phrase, like “Hey, we rank really high for this, you know, ‘What is the sales tax in this geography?’” Like, great, that person just wanted a quick answer. They’re never going to convert, they’re never going to convert!
David: And is there a role for maybe interviewing or talking to real customers, or maybe even talking to your salespeople to get a view of the questions that real people ask, and how they kind of map to intent?
Andy: The ultimate source of keywords is your audience. And there’s lots of ways to get that. One of them is, of course, talking to people. And if you get asked the same question two or three times you should be answering that question in your content.
But when I do that – and when we all do that (and we all should) – search is not your primary concern. Because once you write this article, you can literally send it to exactly the person who asked you the question.
Who needs Google? – you’re already talking to this person.
So, what we should do is listen for the topics that our audience really, really cares about. Put plans in place to publish on those topics. And then as we’re publishing look for keyword opportunities.
Some will have keyword opportunities; some will not have keyword opportunities. If you write the thing that your audience really loves and wants and you give it to them, but there wasn’t a keyword related to it, you can publish it an adjacent topic that does add the keyword that links to this great piece you made. But yes, I think empathy is the ultimate marketing skill.
There’s other sources of empathy, such as if you have a site search tool, and people are searching for a phrase – that’s a source of empathy. And then sometimes, of course, the keyword research tools, and Google itself will tell you what people are looking for related to your topic or your industry works like a charm.
David: Are there other opportunities or trends with search at the moment that are particularly relevant to B2B tech?
Andy: Well, there’s a risk and a threat in search right now that we should all be aware of, which is, as I alluded to a minute ago, none of us should be targeting phrases for which there’s just a short, simple answer.
The number of searches for which the click-through rate is zero keeps growing because Google gets more informative on its own platform. So we should all be looking for opportunities to write content that is yes, keyword focused, but also, the answer to the question the visitor is asking is deep and long with details, because Google’s search results are so informative. Click-through rates to websites are on the decline.
So, target key phrases which give up the I. Remember years ago, we used to publish glossaries? Remember this SEO strategy? We’re like, “Oh, I’ll make a big glossary and answer, you know, tell everyone with the top…” No, that doesn’t work at all anymore. No traffic at all.
So, target key phrases for which the best answer is very long and detailed and 2000 words and you can’t get it in a Featured Snippet.
David: Any final tips for the audience of B2B tech marketers when they’re thinking about keyword research or optimising their content? While we have a world expert with us, the audience would be upset with me if I didn’t ask.
Andy: The ultimate in the best advice is: when you’re publishing a piece of content related to a search, that you literally make a sincere attempt to create the best page on the internet for that topic.
You’re not doing SEO if you’re not sincerely trying to make one of the top 10 pages on the internet. You have no right to rank if you made another medium-quality piece.
But also, as you do this, don’t forget to inject your own voice; say something that’s provocative or counterintuitive. Inject it into this keyword-focused piece that’s going to touch on all the related topics and semantic SEO and subheads and detail, but put yourself in there and throw in some strong points of view.
Search is, of course, library science. It’s an information retrieval technology. But your reader has a brain with an amygdala and can feel emotion.
So if you want to be memorable, and not just a lovely Wikipedia for your industry, then don’t forget that some of the best results from digital come from differentiated voices, strong points of view, Op-Ed. You know, the counterintuitive prediction or perspective of voice. Put people into your articles and include contributor quotes from people with interesting ideas.
Don’t just rank high, be interesting – and have fun.
David: Andy, thank you so much. If the audience want to hear more from you, more of your points of view and your wisdom, where can they best find you?
Andy: I write an article every two weeks at orbitmedia.com. So orbitmedia.com/blog is where you find the main source of my stuff. I put it all together into a book called Content Chemistry.
And also LinkedIn would be my best social media platform. You can connect with me on LinkedIn. The blue button that says Follow? You can skip that and go down to Connect. You know how that works. But yeah, anyone’s welcome to reach out anytime. I’m happy to help however I can.
David: Thanks, Andy. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard so much clear, valuable advice in just a few minutes.
Ruth, you’re an experienced marketing leader, as well as a content marketing expert in your own right. You must have enjoyed that, right?
Ruth: I thought it was great. I thought it was super helpful. And I think what really kind of my takeaway is: when you’re working in a niche tech sector, some of the more generic pieces of advice you get around keyword research just aren’t that helpful, because they don’t cut the mustard for the space you work in.
But Andy got straight to the point of giving us some really helpful pointers as to how we could get started.
One of the things I do think we should also mention, though, is first off Andy talks about both the fun and opportunity for those B2B marketers working in niche tech sectors. And truthfully everybody needs fun and opportunity in their role. So I thought that was a great starting point from Andy.
David: Yeah, absolutely. And as a marketer yourself, do you find it difficult to know, kind of search terms, and use the research as a starting point for good content? Where do you go to?
Ruth: That’s a great question, and I always start with the customer.
Because I really believe that nothing interesting happens in the office. And what I mean by that is marketing teams need to get out there and speak to their customers, speak to their client-facing colleagues, to maybe sit in on meetings, go to trade shows with them, ask the Client Advisory Board, ask the user group, wherever you can get in front of customers, and get a real sense of how they talk about the challenges or pain points or issues that they face in to really understand the language that they use.
I’m picking up on something that Andy mentioned, I also feel that those conversations and those bits of insights really give you the topics that your audience is passionate about and care about. And I think there’s a lot to be said, for producing really helpful content. And I think if you start by listening to what the customer has got to say, tap into the knowledge and insight of your client-facing teams, really unearth these topics that you can tell the audience care about, I really believe when you come to publication, just like Andy said, you can add in the keywords, you can make it a bit more SEO friendly during the publication stage, but it’s all got to start with some customer insight for me.
David: Yeah, and I love that about going to trade shows! I was here like, the listener can’t see, but I was here with my hands in the air like preach, you know, like, just as a younger marketer and a younger copywriter, working on trade shows, even if I wasn’t doing the selling just supporting was so helpful, because I got to hear the conversations that were happening.
And I suppose from that point of view, it’s not either/or, it’s both/and when you work in such a niche market. It’s using those conversations and what you can glean can help you understand where the search intent is in the keyword report and understand what the keyword report means.
And then the other way around, the keyword report can help you understand the language that people are using to address the problems and the questions and the issues that you’ve heard them talk about, whether it’s on a trade show, or writing case studies is another one that I love, because you get to talk to a customer about their thing, and about their challenge and about their world. Like every case study makes me a better writer.
Ruth: Definitely. And you know, David, I think what you’ve just said picks up on something Andy mentioned as well about every key phrase equals intent, and how you’ve got different key phrases at different stages of the customer journey.
So, for example, if somebody’s right at the start of their customer journey, as content marketers, we tend to focus on producing what we call TOFU content. But this is the kind of content that needs to talk about pain points, challenges, questions – those are the kinds of things we need to be thinking of when we’re thinking about our key phrases and our keywords.
If you’re producing middle-of-the-funnel content, rather, I think that’s when we need to see things that relate more to the solutions that somebody might be searching for.
And then when you get to the bottom of the funnel, that’s where it could be more product focus keywords.
So I think Andy made a really good point about thinking around this premise of every phrase equals intent. And those phrases change depending on where somebody is in their journey.
David: I was interested in what Andy had to say about zero search queries and how that changes the nature of the content that people are producing. Is that something that you see?
Ruth: Actually, I hadn’t really thought about this until I heard this in Andy’s advice. And that got me really thinking about that. And that’s something that I’m definitely going to go away and consider a bit more.
David: Yeah, although AI might change it all, again. If, soon enough, ChatGPT gets pulled into Bing, if Google sorts out Bard, you know, you might have these chatbots answering the questions, instead of a list of search results, perhaps.
Ruth: Yeah, that’s true. Actually hadn’t really thought about it from that context. So that’s really insightful.
David: Anything else that stood out for you?
Ruth: Yeah, one of the things Andy mentioned was about the idea of starting with the bottom-of-the-funnel content first, so bottom-of-the-funnel keyword research, content marketing to support the bottom-of-the-funnel stage.
And I would always, always advocate this as a starting point because, ultimately, a very small number of your target audience are active in the market at any one point in time. And I think you need to be if you’re starting out on your content marketing strategy, or you’re revisiting your content marketing strategy, you will always want to prioritise the most commercial-focused activities first, in my opinion.
I think it wins you friends with the sales team. I think it buys you goodwill from your superiors and your stakeholders to then move back up through the funnel to the different stages. So 100% agree with Andy’s point around starting with the bottom-of-the-funnel content first and then working out through the other layers. So you get, you know, to the top of the funnel.
So yeah, 100% agree with that point.
David: Absolutely. You know, I think when content marketing first became an approach, it was so new and so different, everyone almost kind of the product marketing almost became a dirty word. You know, because that wasn’t what content marketing was about.
But, sometimes, the most helpful thing you can write is about your product for someone who’s at that stage of their buying journey. And absolutely, it needs to be included.
Ruth: What do you think about the persona perspective, in this context, in the sense of Andy talks a lot about mapping it to different stages of the customer journey?
But I also wonder if there’s a case for mapping it to different personas in your buying unit. So you know, for example, you might have a C-suite persona, but then you also might have an end-user persona.
And I guess the same would be true, as the customer journey point too, you probably need to think about the personas that you’re writing for, and think about their journeys that they might go on. So your keywords might be different for the C-suite part of your DMU versus the kind of hands-on end-user DMU.
Or are personas old hat, in your experience now? Have people moved on from them?
David: I don’t know, I must admit, I kind of like an avatar more than a persona, for me.
Ruth: Tell me a bit more about that.
David: I’m fortunate in my career to have had enough lives and to have known enough people and enough clients and whatever, that for most sort of what you might call a persona for most job roles, challenges that people are facing, I can normally think of someone that sort of works in that job.
So I can normally write to a person that I have in mind, rather than a persona. And it’s just a bit more, a bit more real.
And it comes back to the point that you were making right at the beginning around getting out to trade shows and meeting people, you know. Doing case studies, interviews, whatever you can do to meet the customer because you might well meet people that map to those personas and makes that more three-dimensional for you. So you can get from a persona to an avatar. You’re like, “Oh, I’m not, I’m not writing for, you know, the CTO and the automotive sector. I’m writing for Janet.”
Ruth: And I think when you give them a name, and you give them an identity that makes it even more real, and I guess if you can base it on somebody that you’ve actually met in a real-world situation, all the better.
David: Before we finish up this episode, we do have a couple more things to share. First, we have this copywriting pro tip.
Announcer: Copywriting pro tip.
Fiorella Rizzà: Hi, I’m Fiorella Rizzà. I’m a Senior Content Designer. And my writing tip is if you need to read it twice, it’s not good enough.
Ruth: Thanks, Fiorella. It sounds so simple, but it’s so, so effective.
Before we go though, David, I gather you’re looking for some of the best pieces of B2B content ever.
David: Yeah, that’s right. As I mentioned earlier, this is the 10th anniversary of the podcast. So, we thought we’d do something a bit unusual to celebrate. And we’ve set ourselves a challenge to find the best B2B content of all time. I mean, it could be a blog post, a video, ebook, white paper, who knows. But the first stage is: we need to compile a long list of contenders.
So, listener, have a think about content that stuck with you, and please send us a nomination, anything you like on social media, or vote at radix-communications.com.
Speaking of which, Ruth… Do you have a particular favourite you’d like to put forward for the list?
Ruth: I do. You actually, so my favourite piece of content is Vital Stats by Earnest. This got shared with me many moons ago on a content marketing training course at the IDM. And they use this Vital Stats video as an example of a good piece of video content. But as the name suggests, it was also jam-packed with loads of really helpful information around how you could make the case for content marketing in your business. And I went back to the business I was in and I used all the stats in the Vital Stats video to make the case for introducing content marketing in my business at the time.
And frankly, I haven’t looked back.
So, when I went to work in earnest, I actually got to work on I think it was Vital Stats 3, and it was a proper fangirl moment for me, because I loved the first two iterations and now it was my job to help champion Vital Stats 3.
So Vital Stats 1 by Earnest is one of my favourite pieces of content of all time.
David: Amazing. I’m not sure I know it, I think I’ll go and look it up straight away. And we’ll absolutely link to it in the show notes so that the listener can have a have a look, get inspired and send us suggestions of their own as well. Thank you for that.
Ruth, if the listener wants to get in touch with you and chat about content marketing. How can they do that?
Ruth: Oh, you can find me on LinkedIn, drop me a message. I love to have a chat with anybody. Always happy to talk about content marketing and help out wherever I can.
David: Thanks for co-hosting. Also, Ruth, you’re an absolute natural. I do hope you’ve enjoyed it.
Ruth: I’ve had a lot of fun, thank you David for asking me. And I think whilst we’re at it, we should also thank Andy Crestodina for his wisdom and super helpful tips.
And Fiorella Rizzà for that copywriting pro tip because that’s what I think we’ll all remember.
And of course, we must thank Emily King for the question that kicked this whole episode off.
David: Yeah, not to mention kicking off this very podcast. Emily, wherever you are listening. I hope you feel that we’ve done justice to your question.
Remember listener, it could be your question that we answer in a future episode.
Announcer: If you have a question for B2BQ&A to answer, email a voice memo to podcast@radix-communications.com. Or find us on social media.
David: I’ll see you next time for another B2BQ&A. Until then make great content and remember, Google can bring you back 100,000 answers. A librarian can bring you back the right one. I’ve never been shushed by Google though. At least not yet.
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We reveal what you voted this year's best B2B content, and four expert panelists – Maureen Blandford, Harry Kapur, Lasse Lund and Karla Rivershaw – share their tips for 2021.
The post Podcast 91: the Best B2B Content of 2020 appeared first on Radix.
What's more important to your B2B content, the data or the story? We ask Dr Christine Bailey and guest co-host Ramon Vanden Brulle.
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We share takeaways from this year's Copywriting Conference, meet one of the brains behind the writing tool Scrivener, and get brutally honest answers from an Information Security pro. Plus: nominate the best B2B content of 2020.
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David and co-host Jane Morrin, EMEA Director of Marketing at Udemy, talk to Joel Harrison about pivotal moments in B2B marketing's history, and what it could look like in the future.
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Creating effective content for the public sector is a delicate balance between logic and emotion. We talk to leading marketers and find out how it’s done.
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Award-winning marketer Mwamba Kasanda shares how much work it takes to get stakeholders to buy your big idea – and the importance of having a strong story.
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We examine data from Orbit Media and the Content Marketing Institute, to figure out why B2B marketers changed their mind about blogs.
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Getting the best out of a creative B2B marketing team can be challenging. So we spoke to conductor Alice Farnham, to see what we could learn.
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In this month’s Good Copy, Bad Copy, we’re talking about Agile and Lean-Agile processes, and whether B2B content producers can learn something from software development and engineering.
David’s joined (virtually, of course) by a very special guest co-host: our former host Emily King, now Content Coordinator at Bluefruit Software. She shares her wealth of experience on adapting Lean-Agile processes for B2B content, and tells us how you can create more meaningful copy with less waste.
We also interview Bluefruit’s UX design expert Dan Goodwin on the role of the user in content creation. He reveals how personas can be used more ways than you think, shares his tips on bringing customers into the creation process, and gives us some really clever ways to get to know your audience when you can’t actually talk to them (which, sadly, is a common obstacle to B2B content).
So, what is Lean-Agile B2B content? Put simply, it’s content created with maximum collaboration, communication and flexibility. We’ve put together some basic guidelines:
- It doesn’t mean you do everything; you shouldn’t start until you and your client have a clear idea of what they need and who it’s for. If it’s a drive-by content request, push back. Ask: “is that genuinely what you need?” (Emily told us there’s no room for subservience in true collaboration. Put that foot down.)
- Once you have that understanding, start small. Think “minimum viable product” – a phrase you’ll become extremely familiar with. Break the project down into smaller parts, get them out, test them, gather evidence and build out from there.
- Most importantly, keep communication open, stay responsive. Regular reflection from everyone, especially stakeholders, gives you a clear direction on what needs to change and what is going well. Then you can quickly problem solve any issues, together.
- Bonus hint: Emails can be miscommunication minefield. Picking up the phone is often a safer, more personal option.
To reduce content waste, add value for the audience In theory, by starting small, and being clear about objectives, you won’t waste time or money throwing yourself into big complex campaigns that are later scrapped by indecisive stakeholders. Plus, with frequent communication and reflection, you can make sure you’re always on track – so there’s no falling down expensive rabbit holes.
But Dan points out that user-centred development takes things to another level. At its best, Lean-Agile is about focusing on content that meet the real needs of the people you want to read it – and the more you can learn about their context, the more likely you are to create something that gets read and shared.
But how do you get all that information? Dan’s suggestions include:
- If you can, ask your clients (d’oh)
- If you can’t, find the people in your organisation who talk to customers most, whether that’s sales, account managers or field staff
- Get the whole team on board with what you need to know, and they’ll bring you helpful insights from their own customer conversations
- Go where your users go – whether that’s the right conferences, the right online forums, or even just the right LinkedIn pages
In Episode 83, you’ll hear… 0.55 – The Return of the King: Emily tells us what she does as Bluefruit’s Content Coordinator
4.36 – What ‘Agile’ and ‘Lean-Agile’ really mean for B2B content marketing, and how you can adopt them
19.56 – How to bring users into content creation: an interview with UX Designer Dan Goodwin
39.55 – Emily’s tips for getting more information from subject matter experts
Read more about Lean-Agile, user-centred B2B marketing content Resources Emily and Dan mentioned in this episode include:
- Agile on the beach and its archive of previous talks
- Bluefruit’s Lean-Agile blog series
- The Mom Test
- Don’t Make Me Think, Revisited
Send us your thoughts, criticism, spare toilet roll and flour (please)@ Contact us through @radixcom on Twitter or podcast@radix-communications.com
How to listen… * You can download the episode here (right click and select “Save As” to download) * Or you can subscribe to the podcast on iTunes here * Alternatively, add our RSS to your preferred podcast player * And don’t forget you can follow us on Spotify
Credits Thank you to Emily and Dan from Bluefruit Software for sharing your time and expertise. You can find Dan on twitter @bouncingdan and on LinkedIn. And if you haven’t heard Emily’s podcast Nerds Assemble, you really should give it a listen.
Podcast editing and music by Bang and Smash
The post Podcast 83: Lean-Agile B2B Content appeared first on Radix.
In this month’s episode of Good Copy, Bad Copy (recorded in a simpler time, while the world was still relatively normal), we’re talking about the technology that’s changing how we write – from the digital tools at your disposal, to the AI writing bots taking over the boring bits of your job.
David interviews Parry Malm, digital anarchist and CEO of Phrasee, a London-based software company that develops AI for marketing. He asks: “Can your AI really write better copy than I can?”
Turns out, it can. And surprisingly, that’s actually a very good thing.
You’ll learn how AI could make your writing more effective, why you won’t be able to spot AI copy – and that you don’t need to worry about technology stealing your job. (At least, not yet.)
And if you want to hear more from Parry, take a gander at his Twitter. It’s great lockdown fuel.
Can anything beat Fiona’s trusty notepad and pen? Although some of us are steadfastly loyal to old-school writing methods, there’s a whole world of helpful digital tools that can improve your copy. Radix copywriter and content lead Katy Eddy joins David and Fiona to give us some top tips, including:
- Word macros – handy little Word add-ons that highlight your bad habits as you go (shoutout to Lorraine at Lighthouse Proofreading for introducing us to them; you’ll find more detail in her super-helpful blog post)
- Evernote – for keeping even the biggest projects organised (without thousands of scraps of paper)
- ABBYY – the mighty Rose Newell introduced us to this screenshot reader, which solves feedback-on-a-jpeg headaches
- Otter.ai – this time-synced transcription service isn’t all that accurate yet, but it’s really handy for diving back into long client calls
Just don’t talk to us about Grammarly. Suffice to say, we’re not convinced yet.
The Anonymous Five: Chief Technology Officer Our secret guest this month is a Chief Technology Officer from a digital development company.
We asked them a bunch of stuff they couldn’t answer in public… so you can find out the real difference between a CTO and a CIO, what tech marketing made them cringe, and how their crappiest day would play out.
And spoiler alert when we asked: “What was the last piece of tech content that you actually paid any attention to?” they answered the Stack Overflow yearly developer survey. You’ll need to listen to find out why.
The end of an era Sadly, this month’s podcast is the last to be co-hosted by our founder, Fiona Campbell-Howes. After seven years and 82 episodes, she’s hanging up the microphone and moving on to a new (and suitably chair-filled) chapter.
Thank you for everything, Fiona, and we’ll try not to stuff things up in your absence.
Want to skip to the highlights? 1:00 – Fiona talks about chairs
4:10 – The tools that can make your writing better
17:00 – Rise of the AI writing bots: David interviews Parry Malm
30:00 – Is Grammarly ever helpful? The team weigh in
33:50 – The Anonymous Five: Chief Technology Officer
38:28 – Fiona’s greatest hits, and final adieu
Send us your thoughts, feedback, and crazy lockdown stories Contact us through @radixcom on Twitter or podcast@radix-communications.com (send us a voice memo from your bunker).
How to listen * Indoors, please * You can download the episode here (right click and select “Save As” to download) * Or you can subscribe to the podcast on iTunes * Alternatively, add our RSS to your preferred podcast player * And don’t forget you can follow us on Spotify
Credits Big thanks to Parry Malm for sharing his AI expertise (and reassurances) with us. You can learn more about Phrasee here.
Podcast editing and music by Bang and Smash.
Please stay safe and well. We’d really like to see you back here next month.
The post Podcast 82: B2B copywriting v technology appeared first on Radix.
In this month’s Good Copy, Bad Copy, we’re talking about readability in B2B content with Professor Chris Trudeau. He’s a plain language expert, and a known destroyer of waffle (plus he’s marvellous on Twitter).
We all overcomplicate our writing sometimes. You might be trying to hide the fact that you don’t know the subject well, or maybe you’re a little too keen to show off your fantastic writing skills. Either way, Professor Trudeau’s studies The Public Speaks and The Public Speaks, Again prove something important: the harder you try to impress, the less anyone likes your copy.
This episode, David talks to Prof Trudeau to find out why readability is so important. They discuss the impact it has on your reader and how to stop clear content sounding ‘dumbed down’.
Meanwhile, in the studio, our founder Fiona Campbell-Howes enjoys a heated debate with consultant writer George Reith, about the merits (or otherwise) of readability algorithms. You’ll hear:
- Why clearer content works
- Ways to measure readability
- How to write readable copy that isn’t simplistic
Plus, we get to introduce you to our brand-new feature…
The Anonymous Five Nope, it’s not a new Enid Blyton spin-off.
Our content obstacles research found that too many marketers are prevented from finding out what their customers really think. And not knowing what your audience cares about can really impact your content.
So, each episode we’re going to pick a popular B2B persona and find a real decision maker with that title. Then, we’re asking them five big questions you won’t find anywhere else. And, it’s completely anonymous – so their answers can be brutally honest.
This month, we talked to a Chief People Officer at a British digital retailer. You’ll find out what they think about the ‘war for talent’, what cringeworthy marketing content looks like, and whether millennials really are changing the workplace.
Here’s what you’ll find in Episode 81… 1.26 –What our new ‘Consultant Writers’ actually do
3.45 – Why the response to our ‘Barriers to B2B Content’ research was so important
5.49 – That readability interview with Professor Chris Trudeau
22.20 – The team discuss readable copy and “B2B buffet content”
26.45 – Readability scoring systems: some that help, and some that hinder
41.39 – The Anonymous Five: Chief People Officer
Send us your thoughts, questions, junk mail and first-borns… Contact us through @radixcom on Twitter or podcast@radix-communications.com (if you want extra credit, send us a voice memo).
How to listen * You can download the episode here (right click and select “Save As” to download) * Or you can subscribe to the podcast on iTunes * Alternatively, add our RSS to your preferred podcast player * And don’t forget you can follow us on Spotify
Credits Thanks, Professor Chris Trudeau, for your time and insights (not to mention all the times we’ve been able to cite your research in training and client meetings).
Podcast editing and music by Bang and Smash
The post Podcast 81: how to make B2B content readable appeared first on Radix.