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How do you prep your business to be growth-ready? What are the key factors you must consider when adapting your business model and processes and hiring the right people when building your business? What would be the biggest challenge when scaling your recruitment business?

We had Amanda Brandenburg as a guest three years ago to share her winning formula for growing her firm to $2M in three years. This time, you'll hear a realistic and relatable story of how Amanda has grown her practice from a small team of three to a growing team of six.

Amanda Brandenburg is the Founding Principal at OpusLex Partners, a legal recruiting boutique servicing law firms and corporate legal departments throughout the country. For over a decade, she was a top producer at two of the country’s largest legal staffing firms, where she provided interim solutions and direct-hire placements for law firms and corporations within the continental U.S.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:27] What is new for Amanda and her team in the last three years?
• [08:10] How OpusLex enhanced its business model to align with EOS.
• [16:30] What processes have been working well with Amanda’s team?
• [21:47] The practical applications of E-Myth.
• [27:54] Discussion on things that Amanda and her team are most proud of.
• [34:40] Learning to grow the team and hire the right people.
• [42:22] Effective collaboration tools and tech stack.
• [50:47] Why should working from home be balanced with working together physically?
• [53:07] Amanda shares what could be the biggest challenge when upscaling your team.

Systems and Process for Upscaling Your Recruitment Firm

Since we last had Amanda as a guest, she has doubled her team to six. She has adapted his business model to align with the EOS - Entrepreneurial Operating System for Businesses. She shared some of the highlights and changes in how she runs things differently. To adapt her business to EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System), Amanda has been implementing several key changes:

• Formalized Planning and Goal Setting: She’s following EOS's structured annual planning, setting a clear mission, vision, and values, and assigning "rocks" (specific goals) to both the company and individual team members.
• Shift from Traditional to Team-Based Roles: Amanda moved from a traditional "full desk" model (where each person handled all aspects of recruitment) to segmented roles. This structure now includes designated roles for business development, recruiting, sourcing, and administrative support, allowing each team member to specialize and master their area.
• Client Engagement and Differentiated Service: They established a high-touch approach to client relationships by requiring direct conversations with clients before working on any job order, enhancing service depth and client understanding.
• Enhanced Communication and Automation: Amanda addressed the complexity of coordinating multiple specialized roles by setting up communication workflows using tools like Monday.com and integrating them with Slack for task updates and real-time notifications, which minimized the risk of inefficiencies.
• Systematized Processes for Consistency: Amanda implemented process templates in Crelate for both candidate and job intake to ensure consistency and efficiency. This provides essential information gathered upfront, reducing repetitive follow-ups and training time for new hires.

These adjustments reflect Amanda’s commitment to EOS principles, enhancing her team's efficiency, communication, and service consistency as they scale.

Critical Elements When Hiring to Upscale Your Team

When growing your recruitment business, hiring the right person to fill critical roles can be challenging. Do you go for a full 360-degree or 180-degree model? I wanted to pick Amanda’s brain about her learnings as she started to hire and grow her team.

Amanda prioritizes understanding how a potential team member aligns with their values. “I think going back to those core values in terms of some of our core values, intellectual curiosity, earnestness, relationships first. And so really trying to stay quality over quantity, really trying to imbue those values throughout our hiring process.”

Rather than adhering to a rigid “full desk” model, she has implemented a flexible, team-based structure that allows employees to specialize and focus on specific roles, attracting diverse skill sets and reducing turnover by placing people where they can excel. Her model also enables creating specialized, replicable teams that can focus on distinct practice areas or client needs, such as intellectual property law or retained searches, allowing team members to build practices around their interests and expertise. Additionally, Amanda’s focus on transparent, day-to-day communication enhances team alignment, with updates to revenue and compensation models supporting this collaborative framework. She shared the tech stack they use to collaborate effectively and consistently.

What is the Biggest Challenge In Growing Your Recruitment Business?

What will be the biggest challenge if you set your business up for scale? For Amanda, “I think giving new ideas and systems time to work is challenging. And not having. Or you know, and also like giving myself some grace.”

Amanda’s greatest challenge in building her business is balancing the patience to allow new ideas and systems time to prove their effectiveness with the need to make strategic adjustments if things aren't working. She acknowledges that this uncertainty—knowing when to persist and when to pivot—can be especially difficult. To overcome this, we acknowledge the importance of resilience and an unwavering commitment to the long-term goal, alongside the willingness to assess whether issues stem from the process, the people involved, or just the natural time required for new initiatives to take hold. Cultivating patience and maintaining a mindset focused on progress over perfection are key practices she uses to navigate the uncertainty and keep pushing forward.

Amanda Brandenburg Bio and Contact Info

In 2018, Amanda founded OpusLex Partners to bring a hands-on, customized, and personalized approach back to legal recruiting. At OpusLex, which translates to “legal body of work,” our body of work includes finding the very best for every search.

Amanda is passionate about her work and enjoys the challenges and competitive nature of the business. When she’s not sourcing top legal talent for her clients, you can find her spending time with her husband, their three children, and two rescue dogs at home in Atlanta. She is a graduate of the University of Georgia.

• Amanda on LinkedIn
• Opus Lex Partners website link
• Opus Lex on Facebook
• Opus Lex on Instagram

People and Resources Mentioned

• Traction: Get A Grip On Your Business, by Gino Wickman
• Monday.com
• Crelate
• The E-Myth Revisited: Why Most Small Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About It by Michael Gerber
• Asana
• Zapier
• Leopard Solutions
• Ring Central
• Allan Fisher on LinkedIn

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#108 The Winning Formula: How to Grow a Recruiting Firm to $2 Million in 3 Years

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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Going smaller to go bigger might sound counter-intuitive, but this mindset helped Tyler Rossi transform his newly launched recruitment business from zero to $250k revenue!

In this episode, you will hear Tyler’s approach to niching down and the strategies that helped him win the majority of inbound clients and establish himself as one of the leading authorities in the metals and steel recruitment industry.

Tyler is the President of American Dream Search and Host of The Recruiter of Steel podcast. He's one of the top headhunters in America for sales talent in the Steel and Metals Industry.

Tyler's story is one of determination and success in the face of adversity, and I’m excited to dive into his experiences and insights today.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:55] How Tyler got into recruitment and why he chose metals as a niche.
• [08:07] Tyler’s story of resilience - getting laid off from a six-digit sales job while his wife was 32 weeks pregnant.
• [12:44] Difficulties of the first six months of a recruitment business and how niching down became a game-changer.
• [17:37] Getting the first client via LinkedIn Automation - Tyler shares his tech stack.
• [20:17] Turning it around from zero to $250k - discussion on business development.
• [23:53] How to establish yourself as the go-to authority in your niche.
• [30:57] Podcasting is an effective engagement tool to go above and beyond.
• [38:39] A creative way of using videos to promote your client and strengthen relationships.
• [43:55] Work and life integration: How many hours does Tyler work a day to take care of their daughter?
• [46:01] What is next for Tyler and American Dream Search?

Go Smaller to Go Bigger - Top Benefits of Niching Down to a Specific Industry

When Tyler attempted to broaden his scope as a sales recruiter - he felt overwhelmed and things did not work out. He recalled how he already established his network in the steel industry and decided to focus on this niche. It was indeed a game-changer for Tyler!

His conclusion is “The riches are in the niches!” He highlighted below benefits and how niching down worked for him:

• Reduced Competition: By focusing on the steel industry, he reduced his competition from 26,000 recruiters in the US to only around five competitors in the same industry in his domain.
• Authority Building: It was easier for Tyler to add value to the industry and be an established figure in the steel industry through continuous sharing of content and podcasting.
• Higher Demand: Targeting a specialized industry can lead clients to view you as a high-value resource, as you bring industry-specific knowledge and connections. Even if you only place 10 candidates in a year with an average of $25k fee, you already have substantial revenue.
• Efficient Networking: Focusing on a niche simplifies networking efforts. Tyler concentrates on key decision-makers and candidates via targeted marketing and MPC.

How to Establish Yourself as the Go-To Expert in Your Niche

Tyler's reputation grew as he focused on the metal and steel sector, allowing him to generate trust and recognition in the metals industry. He started his podcast, The Recruiter of Steel, to bring added value to the industry. He also utilized LinkedIn by consistently posting content related to the industry which has gained traction, especially to decision-makers. Out of his 7000 connections, around 75% are in the metal and steel industry.

Consistency in these actions made Tyler a recognizable authority in his niche. As he shared, “As far as an ROI … I would say the majority of my business now, I would say is inbound. Most of it is coming inbound to me. I haven't run an MPC campaign in probably three, or four months because all of this is coming to me and I have enough business with it. It's because I've established myself as that authority. It's brought in multiple six figures for me just doing posting and just interacting on LinkedIn.”

Other Action Items That Turned Around His Business

The first six months of Tyler’s business brought in no revenue. However, he had a breakthrough that transformed it from zero to a $250k profit. That is niching down, and establishing himself as an authority. However, there are also other action items he shared that helped him, which I am sure a lot of listeners can relate to:

Full Commitment and Resilience: When Tyler was laid off, he committed entirely to his recruitment business, even though it took six months of effort without income to gain traction.

Mentorship and Continuous Learning: Seeking guidance, Tyler connected with Scott Tuttle, a successful recruiter who provided critical advice on areas like contract terms and marketing strategies. This mentorship helped Tyler refine his approach, close deals, and streamline his operations.

Effective Use of Technology: Tyler used a tailored tech stack, including LinkedIn automation through Skylead, Sales Navigator, Apollo for marketing, and Crelate for CRM management. These tools allowed him to be targeted and efficient in his outreach, helping him reach the right clients and candidates without resorting to mass emails.

Tyler Rossi Bio and Contact Info

Tyler Rossi is the President of American Dream Search and Host of the Let's Talk Talent podcast (now rebranded as The Recruiter of Steel podcast). He is one of the top headhunters in America for sales talent in the Steel/Metals Industry.

But it wasn't always this way.

For the longest time, Tyler put off going into business full-time. While he had his LLC on the side, Tyler never had the guts to go all in. He had the six-figure tech sales job and the job security and benefits that came with it. He had the house, and the marriage, and his daughter was soon on the way.

Fast forward to September of 2023, Tyler was forced to take the leap of faith he was putting off for so long. He was abruptly laid off from his job. There was no warning, no severance…nothing.

Six-figure paycheck? Poof 💨

Oh, and his wife was 32 weeks pregnant 😳

That next Monday, he fired up his laptop and dove full-time into his recruiting business.

The first 6 months were brutal he made $0.

Rejection after rejection. Set back after set back.

But he never gave up.

Fast forward to now and Tyler has scaled American Dream Search to over 10 clients and has billed multiple six-figures in its first year. He has established himself as a premier recruiter in the Metals Industry and he's just getting started.

• Tyler on LinkedIn
• American Dream Search website link
• The Recruiter of Steel podcast

People and Resources Mentioned

• Scott Tuttle on LinkedIn
• Alec Borlin on LinkedIn
• Sarah Englade on LinkedIn

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#230 How to Achieve Rapid Success in a New Recruitment Market
• TRR#232 How to Leverage Video Content to Boost Your Recruiting Business

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn, * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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As a recruitment business owner, have you considered how to tap into overlooked talent pools while meeting corporate diversity demands? Our special guest, Emma Freivogel, shares how she built two successful organizations - a charity (Radical Recruit) and a profit-for-good consultancy (B Radical) - focused on placing candidates from non-traditional backgrounds into corporate roles.

If you're interested in combining social impact with business success, Emma's insights on structuring support services and creating sustainable revenue through corporate sponsorship could transform your approach to recruitment.

Emma is the Founder and CEO of Radical Recruit, a pioneering charity that supports companies in recruiting talent from diverse backgrounds, including individuals with prior contact with the criminal justice system, victims of domestic violence, and those facing barriers to work. She is also the co-founder of B Radical, a profit-for-good consultancy that supports businesses in implementing inclusive recruitment practices and developing diversity strategies.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:06] The history of how and why Emma founded Radical Recruit and B Radical.
• [05:01] Insights on candidates' backgrounds being advocated for hiring by B Radical.
• [16:33] Emma expounded on her philosophy of giving people second chances - knowing about Chan’s story.
• [22:23] Interesting story of how Emma got into her field.
• [24:39] B Radical’s business model.
• [30:11] How receptive are companies to partnering with Radical Recruit?
• [32:43] Malcolm’s powerful and inspiring story.
• [36:44] What is next for B Radical and Radical Recruit?
• [39:00] Emma’s learnings as a business leader can applied to all business owners and leaders.

The Philosophy Behind Radical Recruit’s Advocacy

Recruitment is challenging in general, but for Radical Recruit, it presents additional difficulties. They focus on supporting marginalized individuals often excluded from the traditional labor market. Emma and Radical Recruit advocate for people from underrepresented communities—those who face barriers related to ethnicity, gender, disability, and past adversities such as homelessness, criminal records, addiction, or domestic violence.

You will hear inspiring stories shared by Emma about Channel - a woman who grew up in extreme poverty and violence, with 47 convictions by her early twenties, and how she is now a head Chef in a restaurant.

You will also know about Malcolm - who fell into homelessness as his life turned upside-down when his father passed and how he was able to turn it around.

These stories exemplify Radical Recruit's approach: to show employers the potential in unconventional candidates and advocate for fair hiring practices that embrace diversity.

What This Means for Recruitment Business Leaders & Owners

Emma is doing something fascinating and incredible. Giving second chances to underdogs and advocating for them in the labor market not only gives businesses and individuals mutual benefits but also contributes to a much bigger value to society. Since Emma has been running non-profit and profit-for-good business models for both Radical Recruitment and B Radical, are there transferable learnings that conventional recruitment businesses can apply from a leadership perspective? I echo Emma’s response below:

“I think from a diversity perspective, if we treated diversity as seriously as we do things like financial resilience and mitigating the risk of cyber-attacks and this sort of thing, then we would not have a problem filling roles at any level… I think that leaders could just be more human-centric generally, not, not with regard to the way they view and interact with radical talent, but just people in general. We're all looking for the same things. We all benefit from the same things.”

Would You Consider Diversity Recruitment Services?

A key discussion topic was Emma's emphasis on how recruitment agencies can build sustainable revenue through diversity recruitment services. She reveals an untapped market opportunity that most traditional agencies overlook.

"Unless the executive sponsors this diversity work, unless it's properly resourced, unless there is thoughtful, considered approach unless people are measuring impact and linking it to the business case, the work's probably not going to get done."

Market Opportunity Emma highlights a massive untapped talent pool in the UK: 11 million people with criminal convictions, 14 million with disabilities, and 230,000 homeless individuals. With every executive prioritizing diversity, there's strong corporate demand but few agencies are equipped to deliver effectively.

Revenue Streams The business model combines traditional recruitment fees with innovative revenue streams. Corporate sponsorship packages start from £3k, supplemented by DEI training, recruitment audits, and comprehensive post-placement support services. This creates multiple recurring revenue opportunities beyond standard placement fees.

Success Metrics A client demonstrates the model's effectiveness with a 92% retention rate for diverse hires. Successful placements range from entry-level to £80k senior roles across multiple sectors. The comprehensive support model drives long-term partnerships and repeat business from corporate clients.

The key takeaway is that while many recruiters shy away from diversity recruitment, there's a significant business opportunity for those willing to develop expertise in this area. As Emma notes, "Every executive has diversity on their agenda" - the challenge is turning that commitment into action through proper resourcing and support.

Emma Freivogel Bio and Contact Info

Emma Freivogel is the founder and co-CEO of Radical Recruit, a pioneering charity that assists businesses in recruiting entry-level talent from diverse backgrounds, including individuals with prior contact with the criminal justice system, domestic violence, or homelessness among other barriers to work. She is also the co-founder of B-Radical, a profit-for-good consultancy that supports job seekers from similar communities in securing more senior and skilled appointments, often within the same companies. B-Radical assists businesses in laying the foundations for success or reimagining their usual ways of working through workshops, training, strategy sessions, audits, advisory services, and early career recruitment. By collaborating with the Radical brands, businesses not only diversify their talent pipelines and teams but also enhance their social value and ESG initiatives. Emma's leadership is driven by a commitment to equality and social justice, aiming to create inclusive opportunities in the labor market and transform recruitment practices so they are both welcoming and fair.

• Emma on LinkedIn
• Radical Recruit website link
• B Radical website link

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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As a new recruitment business owner, how much do you invest in marketing and personal branding? Is the ROI worth it?

Our special guest, Sarah Englade, explained how she scaled to $1.5m in revenue in 18 months with the help of LinkedIn personal branding. She shared her strategies and how she overcame struggles when creating content, which can be helpful if you also find value in content creation.

Sarah Englade is the Owner & Founder of Monarch Talent Solutions, a boutique executive search firm specializing in senior roles in accounting, finance, and human resources throughout Houston, TX.

Before launching Monarch Talent Solutions in 2020, Sarah gained nearly a decade of recruiting and leadership experience at two global recruiting firms. Between 2012-2020, she successfully placing over 2,800 candidates and generating millions in revenue.

Now, Sarah is focused on humanizing the recruiting process, driven by her firm’s core values.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:42] How Sarah got into recruiting by accident and how she excelled before launching her firm.
• [08:15] Understanding contributing factors to burnout in staffing and how to mitigate it early.
• [11:11] Keys to Sarah becoming a top producer.
• [13:15] The remarkable story of Monarch's launch during the pandemic.
• [20:17] Three action items kept Sarah going during the first 6 months of Monarch.
• [24:27] Sarah’s book recommendations.
• [26:24] Journey and strategies in building a personal brand through LinkedIn.
• [36:33] Are you intimidated to do video content? Sarah shares her process.
• [41:48] What is the ROI in content and personal brand marketing?
• [48:21] Other elements that contribute to Monarch’s successes on top of personal branding.
• [54:30] “You always have to be a student of learning”
• [56:16] Quick fire questions: Tech Stack and Metrics that matter for Sarah, and keys to resilience.

Three Steps That Keep Monarch On-Track in the First Six Months

When Sarah launched Monarch during the pandemic, things were not as smooth sailing as expected. Most people would think that the first three months would get them positive traction, but for Sarah, it had already been around six months, and still, not much was happening. She started the company without a book of business and minimal business development experience.

If you are a new recruitment business owner, Sarah’s insights on the three things that kept her going can be helpful. Sarah focused on three key things to keep her business going for the first six months:

• Self-development and mindset: Sarah dedicated herself to reading books, listening to podcasts, and staying disciplined to work on her mindset and conquer her feelings of inferiority. She focused on personal growth and overcoming self-doubt.
• Metrics and consistency: She believed in using metrics to track her progress and committed herself to hitting her numbers. Sarah stayed consistent by posting her goals on a board, reviewing them daily, and compounding her activity to build confidence.
• Seeking mentors: Despite facing challenges finding local mentors, Sarah sought out mentors in business and recruiting from other parts of the United States. She leaned on their support and advice to navigate challenges and stay motivated in her entrepreneurial journey.

Strategies for Building a Personal Brand Through LinkedIn

A key discussion topic that resonated with me was Sarah's emphasis on personal branding and her strategies for building a brand through LinkedIn.

“As a new business owner you have to really be very smart with your money. But I always say this to people that scared money doesn't make money. As you know you have to spend money to make it. Like part of my budget and part of what's worked for me and my business model over the years has 100% been investing in marketing.”

Sarah was not a LinkedIn expert, as she had just explored it as recently as she started her business. She also is not as fond of being in videos as many of us are. She even gets a lot of bashers and trolls. Nevertheless, it doesn’t stop her from consistently posting meaningful content!

Here are some takeaways shared in terms of strategies and processes Sarah used for creating and posting LinkedIn videos:

• Quarterly video shoots with 20 videos created each time.
• Videos based on real conversations with her network to provide value.
• Content sourced from suggestions and personal experiences as a recruiter.
• Daily preparation: Early morning content creation on the day of recording by reviewing notes and conversations.
• Consistency in content creation: Maintaining a positive and helpful tone in videos.
• Continuous improvement: Embracing feedback and learning from each video to boost confidence and quality over time.

Long-term ROI from Content and Personal Brand Marketing

How much Sarah invested in marketing and building her personal brand benefited her business tremendously. It leads to client relationship building and trust from candidates that the best headhunter in their niche is handling them. Beyond that, Sarah and I believe personal branding has a more long-term ROI than you can measure. I think that Sarah explained it well:

“I think it varies on what you look at as the return on that investment. So for me, I'm a new business owner. I'm just coming up to four years. You know, many people think there's overnight success when you start any kind of company, especially in terms of staff and space, especially if you have experience. And I'm telling the truth about, you know, branding, you have to have the brand now because the first thing we all do is when we're looking up anything, whether it's a doctor, a restaurant, whatever it is, we google things, right? So we google to see credibility and that builds trust when we start seeing the reviews and people and all that good stuff. So in the very beginning, it is going to seem exhausting. You're going to be like, what is this even bringing to me? Over time, it's going to help people find you. So that's the return. So it's not overnight. There is literally no elevator here to success. You have to take the stairs and this is part of that now. So I can honestly say that in the very beginning, I saw the return almost immediately and then it started to go like this a little and then it started to blow up again. And that's recruiting. It's like this. So the biggest thing for me is the reason why I continue and commit to creating this content. It's because we're in a down market, and we're not staying here. So when the market goes like this, I want them to remember my face, my name, my brand, and my company. And hopefully, with putting out as much content as I'm putting out, they do. So that's the whole return on it, which is making sure that you're staying front and center, no matter what kind of market we're actually in. “

Sarah Englade Bio & Contact Info

Sarah Englade is the Owner & Founder of Monarch Talent Solutions, a boutique executive search firm specializing in senior-level and mid-executive-level direct-hire roles in accounting, finance, and human resources throughout Houston, TX. Sarah serves as an executive headhunter within the firm, partnering with local high-performing companies to grow their teams. She also offers candidates career resources, including resume, interview support, job market trend updates, local continuing education opportunities, and more.

Before launching Monarch Talent Solutions in 2020, Sarah gained nearly a decade of recruiting and leadership experience at two global recruiting firms. In her roles, she was regularly recognized as a top producer, successfully placing over 2,800 candidates between 2012 and 2020 and generating millions in revenue. Now, Sarah is focused on humanizing the recruiting process, driven by her firm’s core values.

Sarah volunteers at Dress for Success Houston, is a Greater Houston Women’s Chamber of Commerce (GHWCC) member and has been a nominee for Houston Business Journal’s 40 Under 40 from 2022-2024. Sarah has also been featured in several media outlets, including Shoutout HTX, Voyage Houston, GoSolo, CanvasRebel Magazine, Houston Made, Forbes Magazine for Houston’s Extraordinary Women in Business, and LFN Network’s Breaking The Silence Talk Show.

• Sarah on LinkedIn
• Monarch Solutions website link
• Monarch Solutions on YouTube
• Monarch Solutions on Instagram - @monarchtalenthtx

People and Resources Mentioned

• The Compound Effect - Darren Hardy
• Fanatical Prospecting - Jeb Blount
• Relationships First - Emily Frisella
• Claude.ai
• Rusty Gates Media
• Bullhorn
• Dripify

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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As a billing manager, managing your billings and supporting your team and their individual billings can be overwhelming. Our special guest will explain how this can be achieved and what he learned from his decades of experience in recruiting.

In this episode, Mike Stirton discussed two key factors in building a high-performing team: clear expectations and delegation.

Mike is a seasoned recruitment leader who has led high-performing teams within Scotland's Financial & Professional Services sectors.

Mike has excelled in producing some of the best and high-performing recruiters within his sector while running a personal desk of £1m+.

He has recently joined forces with Be-IT and is currently working on launching their new professional and financial services recruitment business.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:06] How Mike got into recruiting and why he could adapt quickly.
• [06:21] Building high-performing teams: leading a £3M team of 5 consultants.
• [15:40] Overcoming the lows - why Mike at one point hated recruitment.
• [20:10] Specific best practices on how to format a great CV.
• [27:05] Effective approach to developing other top billers.
• [31:02] Mike shares his business model and placement niche.
• [37:46] What is a recruitment leader’s greatest achievement?
• [41:01] Why sometimes under-projecting works.
• [44:20] How Billing Managers should use delegation when supporting and mentoring their top-billers.
• [48:40] Redesigning back office operations to provide innovative solutions.
• [53:59] The five steps in mapping out your recruitment process.

Key Ingredients to Build High-Performing Teams

A remarkable achievement Mike shared is creating a £3M + team of recruiters (5 consultants) in a niche market. This is amazing considering he is a billing manager creating at least £1m+. I wanted to pick Mike’s brains and hear his insights on what are the key ingredients when building a high-performing team. Mike mentioned at least seven key factors:

• Trust: Establishing mutual trust between you and your team is fundamental. This foundation allows team members to feel secure and perform at their best.
• Clear Expectations: Be very clear with the expectations for each task. Clearly communicate what is the minimum required performance, ensuring there’s no ambiguity.
• Tailored Management: Every team member is unique, and you need to manage them according to their individual strengths and personalities, not a one-size-fits-all approach.
• Empowerment and Autonomy: Give your team the space to work independently, stepping back when they meet or exceed expectations. Encourage entrepreneurial spirit and avoid micromanaging.
• Skill Development: Focus on developing your team from trainees or junior staff into experts. Break down complex concepts into simpler terms to make learning approachable.
• Team Diversity in Skills: Build a team where each member brings a unique skill set to the table, so they complement each other. This helps tackle any challenge effectively.
• Learning from Mistakes: Mike highlights that making mistakes is part of the growth process. Learning from errors is crucial to long-term success in leading teams.

Effective Approach to Developing Top Billers

For Mike, his getting big billings is not the best achievement, but rather, when his team members are starting to bill like him: “The best achievement was actually when, you know, some of my other team members were also starting to get to those numbers as well.”

An effective billing manager does not always translate into a good mentor or sales coach. So, what steps should you take if you want to develop your team members to be like you and bill significantly? Mike emphasized the importance of clarity and respect.

“And it's pretty much the way I parent my children as well, so it's no different. So, yeah, that's kind of been the cornerstone. It's just treat people with respect, be very clear with them, be very honest, and take the pressure off them when they're.”

Scottish recruiters tend to use football analogies a lot, so I am sure you will enjoy how Mike described his approach to team development as the same way football coaches approach their teams.

The Power of Delegation

It is not easy to guide a team of big billers while you yourself need to ensure you are producing—that is why many billing managers find it challenging to maintain consistent team performance.

Mike shared his secret: delegation.

He uses delegation thoughtfully and strategically. Here’s how he approaches it:

Delegate for Development: Mike views delegation as providing team members with learning experiences. He emphasizes that delegation is a win-win because it allows others to gain experience while easing their workload.

Match Tasks to Strengths: Mike assigns tasks based on his team members' strengths and preferences when delegating. He selects the right person for each job, ensuring that the task aligns with the individual's skills and mindset. For example, he delegates a report task to someone who enjoys working with spreadsheets, not to the more social team members.

Motivation: He incorporates positive reinforcement by motivating the team members when delegating. This boosts their confidence and makes them feel valued and capable.

Clear Expectations: Mike is very clear about his expectations when delegating, especially regarding deadlines. He sets the task, communicates the deadline, and ensures the person knows exactly what is required.

This approach ensures that delegation is effective, motivational, and aligned with the strengths and capacities of his team members.

Mike Stirton Bio and Contact Info

Mike is a seasoned recruitment leader who has led high-performing teams within the Financial & Professional Services sectors in Scotland. Mike has excelled in producing some of the best and high-performing recruiters within his sector whilst at the same time running a personal desk of £1m+. He has recently joined forces with Be-IT and is currently working on launching their new professional and financial services recruitment business.

• Mike on LinkedIn
• BE IT website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Bullhorn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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How does a recruiter go from new to market to Champions Club in just two years? For Alec Borlin, the answer lies in the power of disciplined planning and relentless consistency.

Alec is a CPA turned recruiter. He started with one of the world’s largest recruiting & staffing companies, where he did extremely well before starting his own firm BGC Search in 2022.

He places accounting and finance professionals with privately held middle-market companies in the Greater Cleveland Area.

Alec recently launched The Recruiter’s CPA which provides bookkeeping and tax services for recruiting and staffing companies.

In this episode, you will hear how Alec structures his day with daily habits and strategies that result in consistent billings. He also shared the concept of having an ideas bank, how to utilize AI when enhancing content, and why LinkedIn is still his trusted platform for lead generation.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:00] How Alec got into recruiting.
• [05:36] Early successes in agency recruiting.
• [09:58] Discipline and daily actions for success.
• [16:42] Launching BGC search - Alex walked us through what motivated him to launch.
• [21:19] How Alec achieved $100k revenue in Q1 from inbound leads alone via LinkedIn.
• [27:49] Trusting LinkedIn as a relevant platform to get results.
• [34:05] Consistent posting by having an ideas bank and how to enhance your content with AI.
• [39:11] Alec discusses Recruiter CPA and how it helps staffing and recruiting firms in accounting.
• [44:10] The challenges of being a solo recruitment business owner in terms of tasks and time management.
• [48:38] What is next for Alec and his team?

Planning and Strategies That Set Alec Apart

In his second full year as a recruiter, Alec became part of the “Champions Club” for two consecutive years despite being new to the market. What sets him apart is his work ethic which includes consistency in planning. Alec sets himself apart by maintaining a consistent and disciplined approach to daily activities. His early career success was rooted in structured habits, such as waking up early, exercising, planning his day the night before, and following a rigorous schedule that included conducting at least 10 interviews and 3 client meetings per week.

Here are the key takeaways from Alec's approach as a successful recruiter:

• Consistent daily routine: Early mornings, exercising, and being in the office by 7 AM helped set a productive tone for the day.
• Proactive planning: End-of-day planning allowed Alec to focus on specific goals for the next day, ensuring efficiency.
• Structured activity targets: Conducted at least 10 interviews and 3 weekly client meetings, keeping himself accountable to those numbers.
• Learning from high performers: Alec absorbed successful habits early in his career by observing and emulating top billers.
• Breaking tasks into manageable steps: Rather than being overwhelmed by big goals, he breaks them into smaller tasks, which keeps him focused and motivated.
• Prioritization and time-blocking: He allocates specific time slots for high-priority activities, ensuring he tackles important tasks first.
• Using productivity tools: Leveraging tools like Asana and calendars to track tasks, organize workflows, and stay on top of both personal and professional goals.
• Accountability and follow-through: Alec holds himself to a high standard, consistently executing his plans and commitments.

Trusting LinkedIn as a Relevant Tool in Generating Leads

How much do you invest in LinkedIn as a lead-generating platform? Alec shared an interesting case study about how they were able to build more than $100k from inbound leads in the first quarter of this year using LinkedIn.

“Twelve months of consistently posting on LinkedIn and not seeing a result. Right. So that was, it was posting videos, it was posting copy. So just words, just word posts, posting images, carousels, and constantly trying to interact with my audience and give them the insights that they're looking for… All you can do is continue to post and try to provide value to the people that are in your network and then eventually you'll get this random, beautiful message, hey, we have this need.” What was his thought process that made him persistent?

“So I just, I think it's, it's the belief that LinkedIn is a place that will continue to be very important. We see Fortune 500 companies starting to develop their LinkedIn presence and marketing, if you will, on platforms like that. So just kind of trusting that there are people smarter than me investing their time and resources into the platform.”

I encourage you to visit Alec’s LinkedIn profile to see the type of posts and content he shares with his audience.

Do You Have an Ideas Bank?

Somehow related to the topic of consistent posting and content creation, I wanted to pick Alec’s brain on how he can always come up with fresh ideas. He mentioned the concept of an ideas bank. He also shared how he utilizes AI when translating these ideas into content or posts. To summarize:

Alec draws a lot of his content ideas from the conversations he has during the day or moments of inspiration, such as while at the gym. He captures these ideas quickly by emailing them to himself or storing them in Asana or Google Docs. He then organizes these ideas by different content pillars like sales, marketing, and operations. On uninspired days, he revisits these ideas for fresh content.

When it comes to using AI such as ChatGPT, Alec envisions creating a personal "copywriter" by training AI on his best-performing content, allowing it to generate new posts or ideas based on his style and tone. He believes that AI is a starting point and not a replacement. Hence, personalizing AI-generated content by avoiding generic languages and creating a unique tone by adding personal context is necessary so that your content does not sound artificial.

Alec Borlin Bio and Contact Info

Alec Borlin is a CPA turned recruiter. He got his start with Parker + Lynch, now LHH before starting BGC Search back in 2022. He places accounting and finance professionals with privately held middle-market companies in the Greater Cleveland Area.

As a multi-award-winning Senior Executive Recruiter with a Global Fortune 500, Alec has used his passion for recruiting and accounting to place over 100 candidates throughout the United States with large publicly traded companies and smaller privately held businesses, ensuring a sound match for both parties.

• Alec on Linkedin
• BGC Search website link
• Recruitment CPA website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Asana
• Loom
• Trello

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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As the recruitment industry rapidly evolves, it is crucial to stay on top of the trends shaping its future. In this episode, we talk with Trinette Cunningham and Teresa Delibert about shifts in candidate engagement, social media strategies, and the growing importance of wellness in hiring.

Trinette is the President of NAPS, the National Association of Personnel Services. She has held that office for 9 years and has been with NAPS for 23 years.

Teresa is on the board of NAPS, and she’s here to add her perspective as a recruitment business owner with over 20 years of experience in the industry.

I’m keen to get Trinette and Teresa’s perspective on the recruitment industry from her vantage point as the president of the oldest recruiting association in the United States. Working with their membership of thousands of recruiters, want to explore the trends, challenges, and opportunities they’re seeing in the market.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:39] Trinette shared an overview of NAPS.
• [07:23] Teresa’s role within NAPS and how she started in the recruiting industry.
• [14:41] Discussion on the current economic and recruitment climate and how NAPS supports its members.
• [21:01] Enabling diversity, equity, and inclusion.
• [25:26] The size of NAPS membership and the value of their certification process.
• [29:06] Emerging trends of opportunities and challenges in the recruitment industry.
• [42:53] Shifting from a candidate-driven to a client-driven market.
• [45:20] Know about the upcoming NAPS conference.

Emerging Trends - Opportunities and Challenges in the Recruitment Industry

Being with NAPS for 23 years, Trinette’s insight into emerging trends in the recruitment industry is invaluable. As a recruitment leader or business owner, do you want to focus on capturing upcoming opportunities or mitigating future challenges? Below are some takeaways on the emerging trends that Trinette and Teresa shared:

1. AI Integration: AI significantly improves recruitment by automating tasks like job description writing, reducing unconscious bias, and aiding in candidate screening and interviews. AI helps recruiters become more efficient and data-driven, allowing faster decision-making.

2. Automation and Asynchronous Video: Automation is streamlining recruitment processes, particularly through technologies like asynchronous video interviews.

3. Data-Driven Strategies: With immediate access to metrics, recruiters can be more strategic and proactive, leveraging data to enhance decision-making and performance with artificial intelligence.

4. Passive Candidates: Building long-term relationships with passive candidates (those not actively looking for jobs) is becoming increasingly important across various job levels, not just for executive roles.

5. Social Media Shift: Recruitment is moving beyond LinkedIn. Companies use platforms like Instagram, TikTok, and even Snapchat to attract younger candidates, particularly Gen Z, reflecting changing social media habits.

6. Wellness and Mental Health Benefits: Post-COVID, companies are expanding their benefits packages to include mental health and wellness programs, responding to a growing emphasis on holistic employee wellbeing.

Enabling Equity and Inclusion

Trinette and Teresa also shared how they enable equity and inclusion by working with WBC (Women Business Collaborative).

NAPS and Trinette support DEI by fostering collaboration with industry groups focused on addressing gender inequality and promoting women in the recruitment industry. They actively engage in partnerships to provide opportunities for women, including initiatives like pairing women seeking capital with potential investors. NAPS conducts surveys and research across its membership base, sharing valuable insights on workplace diversity and DEI issues within the staffing and recruiting industry. They also work to raise awareness of gender pay disparity and the underrepresentation of women in C-suite roles, while advocating for progressive changes in the industry.

This has been an important topic for me and many of this podcast's guests. Fostering DEI and advocating equity not only brings about more talent and growth options but is also the direction most progressive organizations take.

How NAPS Supports Their Members in a Challenging Business Climate

The National Association of Personnel Services has existed since 1961 and enjoys the reputation as the oldest industry association. I wanted to hear from Trinette and Teresa how NAPS can support its members, especially in some industries where recruiters encounter challenges.

Trinette emphasized the importance of obtaining their certification programs. “So to give specifics on what NAPS can do, we're here to help you navigate that ever-changing landscape. We do offer, like I said, the certification program. That is an in-depth program. And I encourage everybody, everyone who's listening, if you do not have your certification, get it 'cause it will pay in dividends.” Both Trinette and Teresa shared their personal experience in obtaining these certifications and how shocked they were by how much there is to know about the industry.

They also mentioned another benefit of being a NAPS member: keeping them updated through different resources, ATS, and research partners.

In this call, Trinette also shared a conference they will hold next month. She outlined the speakers, topics, and other things attendees can look forward to.

Trinette Cunningham Bio and Contact Info

Trinette is a non-profit & event management professional with more than twenty-five years of combined association development, event operations, and sales experience. In 2005, after a six-year tenure as the Executive Director of the Corporate Event Marketing Association (CEMA), Trinette founded the non-profit and event management consulting company, TR2 Consulting.

Trinette specializes in financial management, membership/attendance growth, social media marketing communications, exhibit/sponsorship sales, and event logistics.

Through her leadership, NAPS has grown our membership, expanded our member benefits, and streamlined management operations.

She is a member of the Pennsylvania chapter of MPI, The American Society of Association Executives, ASAE, and was recently appointed to the Advisory Council of the Women's Business Collaborative Alliance based in Washington D.C.

Her proudest accomplishment though is raising her 21-year-old daughter, Maggie, who starts med school next month!

• Trinette on LinkedIn
• National Association of Personnel Services (NAPS) website link

Teresa Delibert Bio and Contact Info

Since 1998 Teresa has been recruiting in Rochester, New York for businesses of all sizes and industries such as; Insurance, Financial Services, Mortgage Services, Real Estate, Human Resources, Auto Dealers, and Medical. Currently, she partners with small to mid-sized businesses in the Rochester area to add to their bottom line through customized recruiting solutions. Although recruiting is her second career, she has been responsible for hiring and retaining talent for 20+ years. Her first career as a Merchandise Manager for a large corporate retailer taught her how to run a business and prepared her for her career in recruiting and business ownership. She is a native of Rochester, NY, and has strong ties to the community. She has a BS in Business Management from RIT.

• Teresa on LinkedIn
• Delibert Employment website link
• Delibert Employment on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• Recruiter’s Ultimate Guide to Maximize Billings with AI
• Helen McGuire on LinkedIn
• Jon Krohn on LinkedIn
• Danny Cahill on LinkedIn
• Matt Walsh on LinkedIn

Related Podcasts You Might Enjoy

• TRR#153 Meet The Recruiter Who Survived And Thrived Through Four Recessions, with Gail Audibert
• TRR#220 How Purpose-Driven Business Models Help a Female Founder Achieve Acquisition Success, with Helen McGuire

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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“We spend 50% of our lives working… What is crazy is that 8 out of 10 people in today’s workforce say they don’t even feel a connection to their jobs or their employer. Which means that most of us are probably half of our lives feeling disengaged and maybe feeling unfulfilled.”

This is how Charlie Saffro opened her TEDx talk on prioritizing people in your business. As the CEO of a recruiting firm, she gives insightful takes on how a people-first culture can positively impact you and your client’s retention and long-term revenue.

Charlie is the CEO of CS Recruiting, which specializes in the Supply Chain, Logistics, and Transportation industries. The company is based in Chicago and recruits nationally. Charlie founded CS Recruiting over a decade ago and has built it from the ground up into a multi-million dollar organization.

She leads a team of 28 talented recruiters, emphasizing a people-first culture.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:55] How Charlie fell into recruiting and eventually put up her recruitment firm.
• [10:46] Winning and completing a project involving hiring 50 people in the first year of business.
• [14:32] Milestones within the 10-year journey as a founder and CEO.
• [21:41] Fostering a People-First Culture and its long-term benefits to retention and revenue.
• [33:58] The four magnets in building a people-first culture.
• [36:25] Transitioning to and embracing the full CEO role by learning to delegate.
• [43:47] Keys to developing a strong brand.
• [53:33] Charlie’s perspective on the current market environment and how she responds as a leader.

The Four Magnets in Building a People-First Culture

From a business point of view, a people-focused culture benefits employees and contributes to the organization's long-term success and resilience. Charlie gave very specific and pragmatic initiatives that they implement to engage with their employees. What strategies can you implement to foster a people-first culture in your recruitment firm?

Charlie explains that culture acts like a magnet in attracting the right talent while repelling those who don't align with the company's values. She breaks down this concept into four key "talent magnets":

• Walk the Talk: The company should live its values daily, celebrating employees who embody these values, like recognizing "value winners" quarterly.
• Beyond the Paycheck: This magnet offers more than just a salary; it offers flexibility, benefits, and other tangible and intangible perks.
• Intentional Connection: This is about fostering genuine relationships within the team, getting to know them beyond their work roles, and maintaining regular check-ins to gauge team happiness.
• Growth Takes Two: This emphasizes collaboration between employees and leadership on career development, ensuring promotions align with employees' personal goals and conducting "evolution meetings" to discuss future aspirations.

Charlie believes that these magnets help attract and retain the right talent while ensuring a strong and aligned company culture.

Practical Steps to Enhance People Engagement

What steps do you currently take to enhance your team's engagement? Does it need a big budget? I wanted to know the actual actions that Charlie implements from a leadership perspective to further a people-centric environment.

A notable takeaway is how Charlie initiates small, personal gestures of appreciation, like handwritten notes or small gifts, regardless of whether there is no budget allocation for these gestures. These small acts of recognition made a significant impact on employee morale and engagement. Over time, this evolved into a formal appreciation and recognition program within her organization.

The program includes a budget for recognizing milestones such as new hires, promotions, anniversaries, and personal achievements like buying a house or having a baby. There's also a "petty cash" fund for impromptu recognition, where any team member can submit a form to acknowledge a colleague who might need a pick-me-up, whether it's sending a gift card, treating them to lunch, or something as simple as giving them their favorite candy (a part of their onboarding process is asking members to share favorite foods or places).

These small, thoughtful gestures cost very little and can significantly boost employee morale and foster a strong, people-centered culture. She advocates for sharing these practices with clients, especially those in small businesses, to help them retain their talent by showing genuine appreciation for their employees. Would you apply the same for your team?

How to Develop a Strong Brand

While the topic of an engaging culture is certainly most interesting, I also wanted to pick Charlie’s brains on building a strong brand and online presence. Charlie is excellent at leveraging her voice through social media and building her brand. She became a recruiter back when LinkedIn was not yet a thing, and she is now utilizing various platforms to build her brand.

You may find the following action items helpful when building your brand:

1. Start Posting Consistently: Initially, Charlie used LinkedIn like many recruiters—sourcing candidates and building projects without much focus on content creation. However, she began posting content regularly, even though her early posts were generic and received little engagement.
2. Experiment with Content: After years of posting expected content, such as interview tips and salary negotiation advice, Charlie noticed that her posts weren't resonating with her audience. Inspired by a viral TikTok video her son created, she experimented with more personal and relatable content. This shift in approach proved to be a game-changer.
3. Share Personal Stories: The viral success of a family-related post gave Charlie the confidence to open up more about her personal life, including her experiences as a mother and leader. This authenticity helped her connect with her audience on a deeper level and drove business opportunities in unexpected ways.
4. Engage with Your Audience: Charlie found that sharing personal content led to increased engagement, with people reaching out to her with business inquiries and personal messages. This interaction helped her build a community and strengthened her brand's presence.
5. Post Regularly and Stay Inspired: Charlie developed a routine of posting five days a week, always looking for inspiration in her daily life that she could share with her audience. She emphasized the importance of staying consistent and adapting content based on what resonates with her followers.

Charlie Saffro Bio and Contact Info

Meet Charlie, a recruitment expert with a passion for human leadership, talent acquisition, employee engagement, company culture, and retention. She founded CS Recruiting over a decade ago and has built it from the ground up, managing a multi-million dollar organization and leading a team of talented recruiters with an emphasis on a people-first culture.

As CEO and Founder, Charlie's mission is to create meaningful connections that empower others to discover their full potential. She is a recognized expert in the Supply Chain, Logistics, and Transportation industry and her firm has worked with a diverse range of clients nationwide.

Charlie's goal is to develop long-lasting relationships with clients and candidates, making appropriate and timely career matches for all levels of positions. Beyond her work, Charlie is also a dedicated yogi and encourages her clients and team to practice mindfulness in the workplace and beyond. She believes that personal development and self-care are crucial to achieving success and fulfillment in all areas of life. Charlie is also a proud mother of three teenage boys and actively volunteers with local organizations to support and empower women in the workforce.

• Charlie on LinkedIn
• CS Recruiting website link
• Charlie’s TEDx talk: Business IS Personal - Prioritizing People Pays Off | Charlie Saffro | TEDxWilmette

People and Resources Mentioned

• Amy Cuddy TED Talk - Fake it Till You Make it

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn, * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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When he started his search firm, Vince was told that you would make 100 grand in year one if you're lucky. In his first year, he did more than $600k in revenue! Was that just a lucky year? Definitely not. He would not even consider his 12 years in business his best year. What are Vince’s key strategies in achieving this phenomenal result? In this episode, he shares two things: his belief system and his hard work.

Vince Dunne is the President of Dunne Search Group, an executive search firm based in South Carolina. For the last 12 years, he’s specialized in recruiting salespeople for the biotech industry and has helped build some of the most important companies in cancer testing.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:56] How Vince got into recruiting and how he was able to shorten his learning curve.
• [10:26] Transitioning from a top recruiter to a recruitment business owner.
• [14:27] Overcoming the scarcity mindset: would you be friends with a close competitor?
• [16:34] Pulling off $600k in his first year of business.
• [25:51] How Vince set up 210 interviews to land 70 monthly placements.
• [35:10] Discussion on Retain vs Contingent?
• [36:53] Vince reveals his team size and structure.
• [42:10] How to pitch an exclusive search arrangement with your client.
• [45:25] Topic on tech stack and approach to reaching out to clients and candidates.
• [56:03] How to “make a name for yourself.”
• [59:12] The biggest adversity Vince faced in his career.

Pulling off $600k Revenue in His First Year

Vince and I talked about his motivation to transition from being a top recruiter to launching his search group. “But I noticed I was getting my clients. Nothing was handed to me, and I thought it was because ‘Vince will figure it out. You know, he's. He's doing well. He's rookie of the year.’ I'm hitting all my numbers every quarter… So I was getting my clients anyway. So why am I splitting my business? And so I felt like I was ready. I've got enough clients out there of people that want to do business with me.” Knowing that he was ready, he took on the challenge of becoming a recruitment business owner, leveraging the skills he learned and the relationships he built over the years. Remarkably, he was able to make more than $600k in revenue in his first year!

I wanted to dive deep into the causal factors of this phenomenal success. Vince believed that he was just lucky. But you will find out as we continue our conversation that there are two main ingredients for his secret sauce: his belief system & hard work. Vince was really competitive and strictly adhered to his no-fail mindset. He would reach out to ten people before 9:00 AM daily to generate leads. These traits enabled him to shorten his learning curve when he was just a rookie and surely contributed to his success as a business owner.

How to “Make a Name” For Yourself

Another topic that resonates with me is Vince’s emphasis on building a reputation and making a name for yourself. Vince’s niche is in the Biotech industry, a very competitive circle, which means that your reputation is a huge deal. Vince shared insights on how he makes a name for himself and that people know him within the sales biotech world.

• Reputation Through Results: Vince builds a strong reputation by consistently delivering results, making successful placements, and ensuring client satisfaction.
• Client Focus: He emphasizes the importance of caring for his clients, going above and beyond, and even working late hours to meet their needs.
• Referrals: Vince actively asks for referrals during and after a project to expand his network and connect with more potential clients and managers.
• LinkedIn Recommendations: He sometimes asks clients for LinkedIn recommendations to build credibility and visibility.
• Personal Connections: Vince maintains relationships by sending personalized gestures, like Christmas gifts, and ensuring that he remains in his clients’ minds for future opportunities.

Building Relationships is Always Better in the Long Run

Vince shared an insightful take on building relationships versus burning bridges. If you have been unfairly treated by a client before, you will most likely relate to his story. I asked Vince about the biggest adversity in his career, and he shared that it was learning not to burn bridges. His aggressive, competitive nature sometimes led to conflicts with clients, particularly when he felt he wasn’t fairly compensated or recognized for his work.

Vince acknowledges that, in hindsight, there were times he should have taken the high road instead of standing his ground, which ultimately damaged relationships with some clients. He overcame this challenge by realizing the importance of choosing his battles wisely and maintaining long-term relationships, even if it meant compromising on smaller issues. He now prioritizes staying loyal to clients who treat him well, even if it means turning down business from competitors.

A key takeaway is that maintaining a positive image and strong relationships is crucial in the long run. Vince balances his competitive nature with a more strategic approach, focusing on clients who value and respect him while still holding onto the principles that have made him successful.

Vince Dunne Bio and Contact Info

A graduate of the Coles College of Business, Vince Dunne brings his keen business acumen and 12 years of accomplished biotech search experience placing the most qualified candidates in both established corporations and start-up companies. Vince utilizes his proven, unique business model to conduct his search to locate and refer the ideal candidate(s) to meet the tailored, strategic needs of an organization, conserving their company resources and increasing corporate efficiencies.

Vince has helped build out some of the most important companies in cancer testing. Having focused on many areas in biotech, the oncology and women's health space is where we spend most of our time. We pride ourselves on being very well-known and trusted in the market.

• Vince on LinkedIn
• Dunne Search Group website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Craig Picken on LinkedIn
• Rich Rosen on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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How did a Certified Public Accountant launch and scale his recruitment business from the ground up? In this episode, you will hear about Troy’s journey in starting and growing his search business! Troy shares the hurdles he faced and his strategies to overcome them and thrive.

Troy is the President of Benchmark Search Group in Dallas. He founded the company in 2018 after working at one of the Big Four accounting firms and more than a decade with one of the largest national recruiting firms.

Troy has built Benchmark’s reputation as a trusted advisor for sourcing and recommending the right accounting talent, specializing in direct hire placement, executive search, and temporary staffing for accounting and finance professionals.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:02] How Troy got into recruiting and was almost fired in his first 90 days.
• [08:00] Winning Best Place to Work for Working Parents.
• [11:57] Key challenges in Troy’s journey of building his own business.
• [21:44] Time tracking exercise to improve efficiency while focusing on value-adding activities.
• [24:00] Hiring a VA and fostering an environment where your team members are proactive.
• [33:09] Doing things differently to improve the training component.
• [42:40] Troy shares insights on what he had learned while running his search firm.
• [50:01] Troy’s three most important metrics in running a search firm.

Overcoming Showstoppers When Launching a Search Firm

How a successful search firm owner started his journey is always interesting. Most often, launching your recruitment business can be extremely challenging! Even if you are an excellent recruiter, running your own business is a different ball game; nothing can fully prepare you for it. Troy shared his journey from being a solo entrepreneur to building his own team. Below are the takeaways from the challenges he had, and I am sure you will be able to relate if you are already running your own recruitment business:

• Starting as a solo entrepreneur: Troy knew he needed to hire, but it took him nine months to hire his first employee.
• Slow initial growth: His hiring process was slow, which resulted in impediments. However, Troy focused on hiring top producers from other firms who were looking for a better culture fit, enabling him to build a core team over time.
• Lack of infrastructure or processes in place: When he started to scale, Troy realized he didn’t have enough infrastructure or processes to support his growth. He established SOPs and initiated training programs to create a more scalable structure.
• Trying to do everything: Troy became a bottleneck as he felt he needed to get involved in everything. He struggled with the need to control all aspects of the business. He eventually learned to delegate and focus on higher-level activities.

Fostering a Proactive Team Environment for Virtual Team Members

A good sign of a great team is when your members come to you and ask to take stuff off your plate rather than you having to reach out and delegate the tasks. This behavior describes Troy’s team, especially his virtual assistants. How do you foster a proactive team environment with a virtual team?

Troy fosters a proactive team environment, even with onboarding virtual assistants, by treating them as integral members of the team rather than just freelancers. He emphasizes the importance of full integration, where the VAs are not just completing tasks but are actively involved in the business. An example is when his first VA quickly took on leadership responsibilities and even helped onboard a new marketing VA while he was away, demonstrating trust and empowerment.

Another approach is to ensure that the VAs are involved in the company's operations and goals, which fosters a sense of ownership and commitment. This approach allows them to proactively take on tasks and support the team, contributing to a strong and cohesive work environment despite the physical distance and different time zones.

Troy’s Top Three Metrics in Running a Search Firm

Metrics and KPIs are not there to micro-manage your team but rather guide them in ensuring that they are prioritizing tasks that contribute to your organization’s bigger objectives. I wanted to know Troy’s take on the three most important metrics to measure his team’s success. He gave a straightforward response: “Recruiters have to have at least, ten interview screens... And then six client interviews in a week... If you end up with three a week, you're going to end up with one to two placements a month. And so there's a scaling factor to that. Then, on the client side, there are at least two meetings with clients every single week. And then that will be five to eight also interviews a week.”

Troy Ashby Bio and Contact Info

Troy Ashby, President and Founder of Benchmark Search Group, founded the company in 2018 after working at one of the Big Four accounting firms, in addition to more than a decade of experience working with one of the largest national recruiting firms. With more than 20 years of professional service experience, Troy has built Benchmark’s reputation as a trusted advisor for sourcing and recommending the right accounting talent, specializing in direct hire placement, executive search, and temporary staffing for accounting and finance professionals. Troy is responsible for overseeing business development and talent acquisition along with P&L responsibility, marketing, and operations.

Troy’s greatest joy comes from encouraging and helping others, personally and professionally. He has a genuine passion for people, developing long-term relationships while working to make a lasting impact in the Dallas Fort Worth community – Troy takes a servant leader attitude to heart and delivers excellence every day. He has a proven track record of building teams, creating culture, and empowering associates, clients, and candidates to win!

He has a passion for developing long-term relationships in both business and his community. He has been actively involved in various professional and civic organizations around DFW chairing committees or serving on boards including the Richardson Family YMCA, The Family Place, the Dallas Regional Chamber, and the North Dallas Chamber of Commerce. He is a graduate of Leadership Dallas and Leadership Richardson and has also been an active volunteer in March of Dimes, Genesis Women’s Shelter, and the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. He has been a guest speaker for multiple professional associations including the Risk Management Association (RMA) Young Risk Management Association (YRMA) and the Dallas Society of CPAs. Troy has also been cited in industry publications such as the Journal of Accountancy as an expert source

Troy received both his bachelor’s and master’s degrees in accounting from Oklahoma State University. He is a Certified Public Accountant and previously worked in public accounting at Ernst & Young, Arthur Andersen, and Whitley Penn. He and his wife Cayce have two children, Owen and Claire. Troy places a strong emphasis on family which is why he has built a strong internal corporate culture for his employees, centered around a workplace that has been designated as a Best Place to Work for Working Parents for multiple years.

• Troy on LinkedIn
• Benchmark Search Group website link
• Benchmark Search on Facebook
• Benchmark Search on X (Formerly Twitter)
• Benchmark Search on Instagram
• Benchmark Search on YouTube

People and Resources Mentioned

• Clockify
• Asana
• The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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“You can't manage people and lead them at the same time… You're managing a task. You're leading people”

Do you apply the same principles when running your recruitment firm? How do you develop leaders and managers to establish a succession plan when you are scaling it?

My special guest, Trey Hugley, shares his insights on fostering an environment in his recruitment business that not only grew his team in numbers but professionally as well. Trey is the President of Genesis Resources based in Dallas Forth Worth. Trey is a leader in executive search for the insurance industry, with over 28 years of experience.

Having launched and sold a recruiting firm, Trey founded Genesis Resources in 2004 with a commitment to bringing a consultative approach to recruitment. Trey also founded a sister business, Genesis Industries, in 2014, expanding consultancy practices into the Manufacturing, Engineering, Accounting & Finance, and Healthcare sectors.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:21] Trey’s story from being a recruiter to starting his firm.
• [06:45] Sharing perspectives on how commitment and exclusivity work with client relationships.
• [19:54] Milestones in building an organization - how Trey built his team to 27 people.
• [33:09] How do you decide when you have to part ways with a team member?
• [46:56] Planning your brakes rather than it creeping up on you.
• [51:13] Developing business leaders and managers.

Scaling His Recruitment Firm Successfully

A key achievement of Trey that I wanted to pick his brains on is how he progressed in building his business from just him to having 27 team members. “I could have made a lot more money over the last 15 years if I was just doing it on my own. Mine is an end game. If I build it, I think my mentality is a little different. I enjoy the concept of building. I like the idea of growing something.”

Trey shared his practices when looking for someone to join his team. He mentioned hiring competitive individuals, often with a background in team sports, who can thrive in a competitive environment. He stressed the importance of training and creating an environment where his staff can support and learn from each other. We covered two focus areas when scaling: taking responsibility and ownership for hiring decisions and training to ensure that the right people are in the right roles.

Deciding When to Let Go of a Team Member

It can be challenging to let go of team members. A recruitment business owner could have invested so much time and resources in hiring and training, and the relationship built over time can make it difficult to let go.

Although difficult, Trey explained that it is part of scaling your business effectively, especially if the overall fit of your recruiter is not aligned with your organizational goals. He outlined the following objective factors that can help you decide when it is time to transition your team member to a new career:

1. If they're not meeting their metrics, like having consistent candidate or client conversations, it’s a red flag.

2. Their ability to generate revenue is crucial; it's a concern if they're not producing at least $20,000 a month (in the case of Trey’s organization).

3. Assessing their pending deals and interview activities can predict future performance; if these numbers are low, they indicate potential issues.

4. If they lack the drive and initiative to meet basic expectations consistently, it may be time to let go.

Trey ended it by saying, “We'll, you know, we'll call it a career transition is what we call it. We're gonna transition you. If you can't succeed here, we don't think you're gonna be able to succeed in recruiting.”

Developing Leaders

Engaging your staff and making them leaders is another achievement that Trey is proud of. He has not only grown his team in size, but he grew them professionally into team leaders and managers. He described his approach and mindset well, “There's a certain humility that comes with managing and, leadership, and I think those are two different, two completely different things. Management is the day-to-day, task-oriented. Have you met your numbers? Leading is, how do I make someone better? … But the concept is, you can't manage people and lead them at the same time. Right? You're managing a task. You're leading people, at least in my mind.”

One thing that Trey shared is fostering an environment where asking questions and continuous learning are supported. He said, “I think the biggest piece is that there is no dumb question. And those who are most inquisitive tend to grow quicker than the others in nurturing a lot of that.”

He also shared an integrated approach (egalitarian versus a top-down model), where his staff can always approach him for ideas, scenarios, and proposals. This is except for metrics and numbers, for which clear expectations are in place.

Aside from very competitive compensation, Trey also shared their setup for working onsite and working from home, which offers practical benefits to his employees.

Trey Hugley Bio and Contact Info

An Executive Leader in the Insurance Recruiting Field for over 28 years. Trey Hugley launched and sold a recruiting firm and then began building Genesis Resources in 2004 as the premier example of partnership in the industry. Launched as an Executive Search firm, Genesis quickly moved to a full-service recruiting organization focused on the recruitment of passive candidates for several of its premier clients in the insurance industry.

Trey graduated from Texas A&M University in 1994 with a Bachelor’s Degree in English. Upon graduating, he began his career in Recruitment with a boutique recruiting firm out of college and a focus on multiple disciplines. Soon after, he joined his partner in a start-up dedicated solely to the property & casualty insurance industry. After 8 years, Trey sold to his partner to start a more consultative approach to recruitment; one that was more dedicated toward executive search methodologies with an overall consultative approach that highlighted his passion for successful recruitment and the improvement of individual careers. In 2004, with a focus on “new beginnings” as the name Genesis implies, Trey launched his new company – Genesis Resources. Trey focused on integrating true consultation efforts into recruitment and building relationships with every professional with whom he interacted. Genesis Resources today focuses on passive candidate recruitment while staying at the forefront of the insurance industry.

Trey’s career includes over twenty-nine years of furthering the careers of others. He has developed a variety of leaders and helped them grow to their full potential in the insurance industry. Not only has he achieved this externally, but his current employees have followed in his footsteps, and within a span of the last ten years, Genesis Resources now has several leaders and Executive Recruiters who elevate the careers of all those with whom they come in contact.

In 2014, several of Trey’s HR leadership relationships moved outside the industry. Together, they built a recruitment offering that would highlight the best practices of Genesis Resources while focusing on several new industries; Genesis Industries was born. From a national project to building out an internal recruiting team, revamping an entire sales organization, and multiple other leadership placements along the way, Genesis Industries has become its own “go-to” consultative and recruiting firm with its staff of experts. Genesis Industries has a primary focus on Manufacturing, Engineering, Accounting & Finance, and Healthcare.

• Trey on LinkedIn
• Genesis Resources website link
• Genesis Resources on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• Gail Audibert on LinkedIn
• Gerald Legrove on LinkedIn
• Joel Slenning on LinkedIn
• Chris DiNaso on LinkedIn

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#171 4 Essential Skills that All Recruitment Business Owners Need to Be Successful, with Chris Dinaso

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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Already exploring AI but unsure how to maximize its potential to elevate your recruitment business?

In this episode, our coach and Client Services Director, Julie McGrath, shares how you can further embrace AI when creating content specific to your niche market. Julie shares insights on how you can use AI to drive sustainable growth for your recruitment business.

Julie is a highly experienced coach with 15 years of experience in the recruitment industry, including 8 years as a solo recruiter specializing in Tech and Executive recruitment. Before her career in recruitment, Julie worked in large-scale operations and managed 200 people.

You will also get a preview of an AI Program she designed explicitly for Recruiters and recruitment business owners, including a Training program for recruiters to help with Business Development, account management, and candidate sourcing.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:31] From a graphic designer to a recruitment business owner - how Julie got into recruitment.
• [09:57] Retrospect: things Julie would have done differently when starting her business.
• [16:02] Developing programs to assist young job seekers.
• [26:30] Running a successful RPO model.
• [31:03] Common qualities of successful recruitment business owners.
• [41:09] Leveraging AI to improve your recruitment business.
• [51:31] Creating content specific to your client and candidates’ needs through AI.
• [1:01:30] Testing ChatGPT 4.0.

Common Success Qualities of Recruiters and Recruitment Business Owners

Julie’s experience as a recruiter, business owner, and recruitment coach puts her in a position to work with some top-performing recruiters and business owners. She shared great insights and observations on the most common challenges and critical success factors.

“I'm very fortunate to be in this position where I get a peek behind the curtain of the top-performing recruiters. And then also those that are maybe new to the industry that are just starting and trying to define their feet, like we all did it at one point or another in our career.”

Here are the critical success factors that she shared:

• Consistency in actions and routines is foundational to success in business and personal growth.
• Implementation and Action - Top performers build consistent work routines and stay focused on both immediate tasks and long-term goals.
• Work on and in the Business - Balancing working "in" the business (daily operations) and "on" the business (strategic growth) is crucial.
• Goal Setting - Setting specific, measurable, actionable, realistic, and timely (SMART) goals is essential.
• Accountability ensures continuous progress and the ability to navigate setbacks.
• Business Building vs. Job Creation - Successful recruitment business owners understand the difference between creating a business and creating a job for themselves.
• Resilience - This involves self-awareness, flexibility, and adaptability.
• Self-Awareness and Adaptability - Adapting to changes and being open to new approaches can lead to sustained success.

Julie believes these key factors can help business owners achieve high performance, build sustainable businesses, and effectively navigate industry challenges.

Leveraging AI to Enhance Your Recruitment Business

During our Live Summit in Edinburgh last year, Julie delivered a fascinating session on leveraging AI to improve recruitment businesses. ChatGPT was pretty new at that time, and she was able to provide an amazing take on why the recruitment community needs to embrace AI.

The world will look so different in the next 3-5 years, and I think that understanding AI as early as now can enable recruiters to contribute a more profound impact to their industries. Julie and I discussed her passion for AI, and how it can help recruiters and business owners further engage with their clients and candidates.

Julie pointed out that AI isn’t a new player on the field; it’s just that Generative AI, ChatGPT, and OpenAI have recently brought it into the limelight. She explained that while AI has been used for decades, primarily in automation, it’s now becoming more accessible to individuals and small businesses.

Julie’s passion for AI is driven by its potential to revolutionize the recruitment industry, and she believes that getting ahead of the curve will have a more positive impact. Julie underscored that even small businesses can compete effectively by creating targeted content and using AI to understand and meet the needs of their clients and candidates.

If you want to know more about how we can integrate AI into our recruitment process, you may check the link below for a free training session developed by Juli and our colleague Leanne.

Creating AI Content That Is Specific to Your Client and Candidate Needs

Julie also touched upon creating content with AI while focusing on providing a great experience for your clients and candidates. This is how she puts it: “And if you can spend your time and your skills more focused on providing a great experience for your clients and your candidate, using the emotional intelligence side of things that can't be replaced by AI just yet, and being able to use AI as a crutch to make you work faster and smarter with the data-driven insights and information that it can give you, I can only see this being a positive change in our world and the world of recruiting overall.”

She outlined a straightforward process when creating AI content with a human touch:

• Create your brand guidelines and support your content creation through data and insights.
• Understanding your clients - what they look for and what they want to consume will enable you to make data-driven decisions.
• Based on these data and insights, you are creating content for a specific person, nation, and target audience, instead of creating content for ‘everybody.

Julie McGrath Bio and Contact Info

Julie McGrath is a highly experienced coach and conducts our 1-2-1 monthly calls with members. She has 15 years of experience in the recruitment industry both in large-scale operations and running a solopreneur agency specializing in Tech and Executive recruitment.

She is an active STEM ambassador and panel judge for various socio-economic and diversity initiatives. She currently manages her own digital skills agency that supports businesses to embrace new technological processes and upskill staff for the new digital world of work.

Julie is also an NLP practitioner and this means she can help business owners break through mental and physical barriers so they can live a life of abundance and release the restrictions of mediocrity. Julie is well versed in helping recruitment business owners with business burnout, stress, loss of purpose and direction, and also those business owners who are doing well and want to continue achieving and attracting success into their lives.

• Julie on LinkedIn
• Access to Free Training on AI: Recruitmentcoach.com/AI
• Comprehensive Program on How to Recruit Smarter with AI

People and Resources Mentioned

• ChatGPT
• Fireflies
• Otter
• Google Gemini
• Recruitment Coach Live Summit in Florida

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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In this episode, we dive into the challenges and rewards of managing enterprise clients. Drawing from over two decades of experience in the Recruitment & Executive Search Industry, Gina Matteson shares her learnings from handling large-scale clients effectively. Gina and I discussed strategies for effective stakeholder management, navigating complex challenges, and delivering exceptional value.

Gina is the Founder & CEO of GemTek Recruiting. They strategically partner with clients in Connective Intelligence is our groundbreaking recruitment solution that combines the power of advanced AI with a reliable commitment to genuine human interaction.

With over two decades of hands-on sales & recruiting experience in Canada & the US, Gina's passionate approach to work is underscored by an unwavering commitment to prioritizing relationships above all else.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:35] How Gina found her way into the recruiting world.
• [03:38] What led Gina to start her own business?
• [05:18] Enterprise Insights: Valuable lessons Gina learned from working with big clients.
• [16:14] How Gina tackled a major challenge—a 15% pay rate cut.
• [23:06] GemTek's Rollercoaster Ride: The highs and lows of launching Gemtek.
• [26:36] Gina’s unique recruitment strategy, blends AI with a personal touch.
• [34:26] A dive into Gina's book and the toughest battles she faced.

$25 Million Annual Billings for a Single Enterprise Client

Gina’s diverse experience working with enterprises like American Express, Honeywell, and Google puts her in a great position to offer perspectives and strategies when working with large clients. She highlighted her experience working for a $2B organization, American Express. She shared what led to her success, which includes annually bringing in $25m in revenue for the client.

One key component is bringing people together, communicating, and bridging the gap between large organizations within the organization. Gina said, “Bringing those groups together and kind of bridging that gap, regular meetings, I would often bring different stakeholders together and actually host a meeting within the organization because one group could be asking for something and then another group, it doesn't work with them.”

You will also hear about the biggest challenges she faced when she had to undergo an audit stating that she owed $10m from her client and how she dealt with a 15% pay cut that also affected her subcontractors. Her stories are not only inspiring but also reminders of the importance of thinking on your feet, being organized, and transparent stakeholder management.

AI Meets Empathy: Extensively Utilizing AI Without Sacrificing the Human Element

A GemTek methodology is pragmatically utilizing AI. Gina shared how AI helps in initial resume sifting, and narrowing down candidates for interviews. They also shared their tools, such as ChatGPT and other ATS (Applicants Tracking System). They balance technology use by advocating the importance of the human element. During in-depth interviews, personality, and technical assessments, Gina believes that “in recruiting, the human element for me and for my organization can never take a backseat to anything.”

Do you have the same approach when it comes to AI?

A Dive into Gina’s Book and Her Story of Resilience

It is not directly related to recruitment, but we also touched upon Gina’s story of resilience and the most significant adversities that she had to navigate. She shared what inspired her to write her semi-autobiographical novel, A Thousand Masks. Aside from professional challenges, Gina also opened up about a deeply personal story of resilience that has shaped her life and her business. Listening to her journey can remind us that we can turn adversity into strength and use our experiences to help others.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Gina Matteson Bio and Contact Info

Gina Matteson is a seasoned thought leader celebrated for her triumphs in sales and recruiting within the Recruitment & Executive Search Industry. With over two decades of hands-on experience in Canada and the US, Gina's passionate approach to work is underscored by an unwavering commitment to prioritizing relationships. Her consultative methodology ensures clients, candidates, and employees receive the respect they deserve while collaboratively crafting tailored solutions. As the Founder & CEO of GemTek, she leads a professional services and recruitment firm with a rich legacy on both sides of the border, known for its transparent and partnership-driven approach. Beyond her professional achievements, Gina is an inspiring entrepreneur and acclaimed #1 International Best Selling author, advocating for personal growth and resilience through her novel, "A Thousand Masks." With remarkable tenacity and creative vision, Gina Matteson is a force making a lasting impact in both the business and literary worlds.

• Gina on LinkedIn
• Gina’s website link
• GemTek website link
• GemTek on Facebook
• GemTek on Instagram

People and Resources Mentioned

• A Thousand Masks, by Gina Matteson

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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What three elements are needed when building a high-performing team to drive company growth?

Katharine Wilcox, President of Resource Mosaic, shares her strategies for delivering candidates and building teams that drive company growth. Based in Atlanta, she excels in executive search, specializing in accounting and finance across the Southeast. She joined Resource Mosaic in 2011 and took over the company in 2022.

With a background in entertainment and accounting, Katharine boasts a proven track record of connecting top talent with growth opportunities.

Katharine is a member of the Pinnacle Society, a fantastic group of recruiters who are among the top producers in the United States.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:58] Katharine’s background in a talent agency and how she went into recruiting.
• [06:47] Discussion on how Katharine transitioned from being a director to becoming a business owner.
• [19:43] Building teams that drive company growth.
• [25:36] What is the secret to building trust with your clients and candidates?
• [32:25] Why Katharine loves MPC marketing and her process.
• [39:54] Initiating conversations with hard-to-reach roles.
• [47:04] What a support team looks like for big billers.
• [50:11] Quick Q&A on Katharine’s operational structure and business model.
• [52:55] Katharine reveals the biggest challenges she had to face as a recruiter.

Three Key Elements When Building Effective Teams to Drive Company Growth

One key highlight in my conversation with Katharine is how she builds trust with clients and candidates when building teams in key projects. She fondly recalls how her first hires eventually became CEO and CFO, which makes her extremely proud. “So if I get a certain number, hey, we're looking for these, I just have to go find that soft skills, that personality, that desire, that career drive, whatever it is that they're looking for that will help drive the company's growth and change and hopefully last for a really long time.”

Katharine shared three critical elements when building an effective team that drives the company’s growth:

1. Building trust - she emphasized the importance of understanding client needs and having honest conversations.
2. Hustle - Katharine encourages showing up every day and committing to the craft..
3. Delivery & Execution - Katharine values getting the job done quickly and efficiently.

She concluded, “ But, yeah, it's, that combination of trust and hustle, delivery and execution is just such an important piece to what we do on a daily basis.”

Initiating Conversations with Hard-to-Reach Roles

Some recruiters struggle to reach hard-to-reach roles, such as CEOs and portfolio owners. This may only sometimes be the case for Katharine. When we discussed her approach to MPC Marketing, I learned that it enables her to connect with key roles like board members and CEOs. She shared a few tips on how she does this.

She shared that the caliber of talent will always get you the conversation. She thinks working with good talent (MPC) is important as it will likely get people interested. But this is not enough; you also need to get creative in getting your talent information across. She shared her conversation style to build trust, including using her personality and being genuine.

The other thing is the mindset. As we all know, doing campaigns is also a volume game. Katharine is very much aware of this: “A lot of people are never going to answer my phone or answer my calls. And I don't take offense to it. Some people are just not going to like me. Right. They're not going to want to work with me. I'm okay with that. So. But I'm going to keep trying. And you never know. Maybe I'll break through at some point.”

Katharine Reveals Her Biggest Challenge

I love stories of resilient recruiters, so I had to hear about Katharine's biggest challenges in her career. Most successful recruiters face the biggest challenges, and we can pick up nuggets of wisdom from their experience.

She shared how they were knocked out during COVID-19, but that did not stop her from working. She kept on talking to people, marketing candidates, and positioning herself. “So that was, you know, getting. Having the ability to continue to make those calls and show up, even though you're hearing no for six, seven, eight months? It was hard.”

What motivated her to stay in the game and keep pushing? “It was simple. I just knew any day could be the day to make that break. Eventually. I knew the dam was going to break. Right. I knew that people had hiring needs. I knew that people were looking for jobs or were not happy in their current roles. And I just knew that if I showed up every single day and did what I do, that at some point it was going to pay off.”

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Katharine Wilcox Bio and Contact Info

Katharine Wilcox, President of Resource Mosaic, brings a unique blend of expertise and leadership to the world of executive search. With a background spanning from entertainment to accounting and finance, Katharine has a proven track record of connecting top talent with opportunities for growth.

Katharine joined Resource Mosaic in 2011 after 6 years with the Lucas Group as a Senior Partner on the accounting/finance executive search team in Atlanta. In 2022, she took on additional responsibilities and ownership of the firm as President.

At Resource Mosaic, Katharine specializes in recruiting exceptional accounting and finance professionals across the Southeast, while also supporting clients' leadership needs in various functions, including HR, operations, legal, and sales/marketing. Her approach is rooted in navigating complex challenges, identifying hard-to-find talent, and aligning leadership with business objectives. She is passionate about connecting talent and driving growth for companies in Atlanta and across the Southeast.

Beyond her professional achievements, Katharine can be found chasing around her 6-year old twins and serves on the Board of the Atlanta BeltLine Partnership, working to create a more connected and vibrant city. Originally from San Diego, she graduated from UCLA in 1999 with a degree in communication studies.

• Katharine on LinkedIn
• Resource Mosaic website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Monty Mertz on LinkedIn
• Nate Zimmerman on LinkedIn
• Jen Myer on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn, * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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Multi-hire team-build projects can be profitable if strategized clearly and executed effectively. Where do you find opportunities to engage in multi-hire team-build projects? What should be your main areas of focus for successfully implementing? Our guest, Paul Press, is here to give insights!

Paul is the Managing Partner and Founder of Press & Associates, a leading executive search firm specializing in recruiting top technology talent for private equity firms and their portfolio companies. Before founding Press & Associates, Paul Press built a well-rounded career with experience in an executive search firm and an in-house talent acquisition position.

In this episode, you will hear valuable insights into leveraging experience as an in-house recruiter, applying MPC marketing strategies, and successfully navigating the complexities of multi-hire team-build projects.

Episode Outline and Highlights

03:25 Paul’s recruiting backstory and how he launched his own firm.

06:37 Learnings from working in-house translating to running his own agency.

12:30 When to consider hiring a third-party recruiter from an in-house recruitment perspective.

18:35 Transitioning to Private Equity expertise.

23:11 Two main areas on winning multi-hire team build projects.

35:59 The risks of handling large-sized projects and how to mitigate them.

40:15 Paul shares the story of his $450k fee and MPC strategy discussion.

51:47 What Paul’s MPC marketing strategy looks like.

58:04 Upcoming exciting times for Paul and Press Associates acquisition.

Leveraging Experience as an In-House Recruiter

Before founding Press & Associates, Paul built a well-rounded career in an executive search firm and an in-house talent acquisition position. He has always aspired to set up his own agency, and this experience was a stepping stone that gave him a complete perspective on what a successful search firm should look like.

Paul gave his insights and compared the approach from an in-house to an agency perspective. He emphasized the value of building and nurturing relationships on the in-house side while investing heavily in business development on the other. From an in-house perspective, I also wanted to know the primary considerations when hiring a third-party recruiter. Who are the most successful ones? What companies really did poorly? Paul gave his answer:

“I would say the biggest thing is the ones who took the time to be personalized, to make a very human approach and connection, and who were very empathetic; those were the ones that really stood out. It's amazing how transparent people's approaches are and how easy it is to tell when there's an email sequencing campaign going on, with an email coming out to you every kind of two or three … So it is very easy to tell kind of what's being automated, what's actual human touch and who are people that want to be in it for the long run versus, hey, I've got my monthly targets to hear.”

Two Areas of Focus to Win Multi-Hire Team Build Projects

A key topic Paul and I discussed is his success in doing multi-hire team-build projects. The main takeaway is this: multi-hire team build results from placing a key executive. By ensuring that great relationships are built and the best experience for the executive is provided, a potential opportunity to then build out the team underneath them will likely happen.

This idea came about based on Paul’s previous in-house experience. “I'd say it kind of goes back to lessons learned when I went in-house and was building those relationships and understanding the big picture behind those hires and what those companies were trying to achieve. And that, combined with the private equity space, really kind of mesh well together.”

Paul shared two main areas of focus to be successful in this approach:

1. Communication - “It's certainly a communication game. In multi-hire campaigns, there are usually multiple hiring managers. So you got to figure out each individual style of communication, building relationships with those people.”
2. Project Management - making sure you're implementing your standard procedures in terms of market mapping, talent pipelining, and going through your own internal processes.

Paul also shared the most common challenges you will experience in multi-hire team-build projects and the steps they took to mitigate them.

MPC Strategy Resulting to a $450k Fee

An achievement Paul shared with me is how he was able to make a placement with a $450k fee. He made a placement using the MPC (Most Placeable Candidate) marketing approach. Many recruiters will find this part of our conversation relatable because although this may be familiar to many recruiters, some will tell you that you can’t apply MPC marketing to executive recruitment.

We discussed Paul’s mindset on this strategy, and he shared how he executes it. We discussed proactive candidate representation and effective KPIs, such as making 5 introductions daily. We also agreed on this critical point: the goal is not to place the candidate. The goal is primarily to get your foot in the door to start a conversation, demonstrate the caliber of your network and the people you represent, and come to them with interesting ideas that could bring value to their business.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Paul Press Bio and Contact Info

Paul is the Managing Partner and Founder of Press & Associates. Paul started Press & Associates in 2016 with the goal of building the number one search firm hiring technology talent for Private Equity firms and their portfolio companies. Since its inception, Paul has built close and long-lasting partnerships with numerous globally renowned private equity firms, helping them make key hires in their value creation team and numerous c-suite appointments across their portfolio companies - all within the technology function.

Prior to founding Press & Associates, Paul built a well-rounded career in executive search working for a boutique search firm (Mackinnon Bruce), one of the largest talent acquisition firms in the world (Hays), as well as an in-house talent acquisition position with Murphy Oil looking after hiring key positions across North America.

Paul has a BA (Hons) in Managing Performance from the University of Leeds and is accredited by the Institute of Retrained Search.

• Paul on LinkedIn
• Press and Associates website link
• Press and Associates on YouTube
• Press and Associates on X (Twitter)
• Press and Associates on Facebook
• Press and Associates on Instagram

People and Resources Mentioned

• How Clients Buy, by Tom McMakin & Doug Fletcher
• Loxo
• Dripify
• Rob White of Tempting Talent on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn, * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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Multi-hire team-build projects can be profitable if strategized clearly and executed effectively. Where do you find opportunities to engage in multi-hire team-build projects? What should be your main areas of focus for successfully implementing? Our guest, Paul Press, is here to give insights!

Paul is the Managing Partner and Founder of Press & Associates, a leading executive search firm specializing in recruiting top technology talent for private equity firms and their portfolio companies. Before founding Press & Associates, Paul Press built a well-rounded career with experience in an executive search firm and an in-house talent acquisition position.

In this episode, you will hear valuable insights into leveraging experience as an in-house recruiter, applying MPC marketing strategies, and successfully navigating the complexities of multi-hire team-build projects.

Episode Outline and Highlights

03:25 Paul’s recruiting backstory and how he launched his own firm.

06:37 Learnings from working in-house translating to running his own agency.

12:30 When to consider hiring a third-party recruiter from an in-house recruitment perspective.

18:35 Transitioning to Private Equity expertise.

23:11 Two main areas on winning multi-hire team build projects.

35:59 The risks of handling large-sized projects and how to mitigate them.

40:15 Paul shares the story of his $450k fee and MPC strategy discussion.

51:47 What Paul’s MPC marketing strategy looks like.

58:04 Upcoming exciting times for Paul and Press Associates acquisition.

Leveraging Experience as an In-House Recruiter

Before founding Press & Associates, Paul built a well-rounded career in an executive search firm and an in-house talent acquisition position. He has always aspired to set up his own agency, and this experience was a stepping stone that gave him a complete perspective on what a successful search firm should look like.

Paul gave his insights and compared the approach from an in-house to an agency perspective. He emphasized the value of building and nurturing relationships on the in-house side while investing heavily in business development on the other. From an in-house perspective, I also wanted to know the primary considerations when hiring a third-party recruiter. Who are the most successful ones? What companies really did poorly? Paul gave his answer:

“I would say the biggest thing is the ones who took the time to be personalized, to make a very human approach and connection, and who were very empathetic; those were the ones that really stood out. It's amazing how transparent people's approaches are and how easy it is to tell when there's an email sequencing campaign going on, with an email coming out to you every kind of two or three … So it is very easy to tell kind of what's being automated, what's actual human touch and who are people that want to be in it for the long run versus, hey, I've got my monthly targets to hear.”

Two Areas of Focus to Win Multi-Hire Team Build Projects

A key topic Paul and I discussed is his success in doing multi-hire team-build projects. The main takeaway is this: multi-hire team build results from placing a key executive. By ensuring that great relationships are built and the best experience for the executive is provided, a potential opportunity to then build out the team underneath them will likely happen.

This idea came about based on Paul’s previous in-house experience. “I'd say it kind of goes back to lessons learned when I went in-house and was building those relationships and understanding the big picture behind those hires and what those companies were trying to achieve. And that, combined with the private equity space, really kind of mesh well together.”

Paul shared two main areas of focus to be successful in this approach:

1. Communication - “It's certainly a communication game. In multi-hire campaigns, there are usually multiple hiring managers. So you got to figure out each individual style of communication, building relationships with those people.”
2. Project Management - making sure you're implementing your standard procedures in terms of market mapping, talent pipelining, and going through your own internal processes.

Paul also shared the most common challenges you will experience in multi-hire team-build projects and the steps they took to mitigate them.

MPC Strategy Resulting to a $450k Fee

An achievement Paul shared with me is how he was able to make a placement with a $450k fee. He made a placement using the MPC (Most Placeable Candidate) marketing approach. Many recruiters will find this part of our conversation relatable because although this may be familiar to many recruiters, some will tell you that you can’t apply MPC marketing to executive recruitment.

We discussed Paul’s mindset on this strategy, and he shared how he executes it. We discussed proactive candidate representation and effective KPIs, such as making 5 introductions daily. We also agreed on this critical point: the goal is not to place the candidate. The goal is primarily to get your foot in the door to start a conversation, demonstrate the caliber of your network and the people you represent, and come to them with interesting ideas that could bring value to their business.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Paul Press Bio and Contact Info

Paul is the Managing Partner and Founder of Press & Associates. Paul started Press & Associates in 2016 with the goal of building the number one search firm hiring technology talent for Private Equity firms and their portfolio companies. Since its inception, Paul has built close and long-lasting partnerships with numerous globally renowned private equity firms, helping them make key hires in their value creation team and numerous c-suite appointments across their portfolio companies - all within the technology function.

Prior to founding Press & Associates, Paul built a well-rounded career in executive search working for a boutique search firm (Mackinnon Bruce), one of the largest talent acquisition firms in the world (Hays), as well as an in-house talent acquisition position with Murphy Oil looking after hiring key positions across North America.

Paul has a BA (Hons) in Managing Performance from the University of Leeds and is accredited by the Institute of Retrained Search.

• Paul on LinkedIn
• Press and Associates website link
• Press and Associates on YouTube
• Press and Associates on X (Twitter)
• Press and Associates on Facebook
• Press and Associates on Instagram

People and Resources Mentioned

• How Clients Buy, by Tom McMakin & Doug Fletcher
• Loxo
• Dripify
• Rob White of Tempting Talent on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn, * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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Helen joined us three years ago to share how to attract 70% more diverse talent by leveraging DEI - diversity, equity and inclusion. This time, she returns as a special guest to share an amazing feat - the platform she co-founded, Diversely.io, has just been recently acquired. This means more sourcing and recruitment firms can now access the platform, meaning more recruiters and sourcing firms can embed DEI in their hiring process.

What fascinates me more is Helen’s strategies and lessons learned from exiting Diversely.io. She shared strategies and things she would have done differently, which I am sure many of us will also learn from. Overall, Helen believes that the key to success is following a purpose-driven business model.

Helen McGuire is an exited founder, author, advisor, mother, podcast host and DEI changemaker.

Helen is a leading figure in DEI and business strategy and is renowned for her impactful initiatives. She founded Hopscotch. work, the first women's careers platform in the Middle East and Asia, and her journey led to the creation of Diversely.io, a groundbreaking AI platform acquired by The Access Group in 2023.

As the host of The D&Igest podcast and author of the upcoming book 'The Female Scale', Helen's expertise extends to coaching female founders and advocating for purposeful businesses globally.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:50] Helen shares updates on Diversely.io’s acquisition by the Access Group.
• [08:54] What barriers do entrepreneurs with diverse backgrounds face when starting a business?
• [13:00] Encouraging more women to take the entrepreneurial leap.
• [17:33] Walkthrough on Diversely.io’s exit process and how a purpose-driven business model made it happen.
• [30:00] Things that Helen would have done differently when undergoing acquisition.
• [38:31] Teaser on Helen’s new book, The Female Scale.

Embedding DEI Into the Business Strategy

Diversity, equity, and inclusion are critical in the hiring process. This is essential because it is the right thing to do and a strategic business decision that can lead to more innovative and successful organizations.

I had Helen as a guest three years ago, and I am fascinated by her current position on championing DEI in the recruitment industry. She is a great example of an astounding business leader who advocates equity and opportunity for lesser-represented groups. As a female founder, you will hear insightful perspectives on how underrepresentation affects certain groups and how to empower more women to launch their own businesses.

She is about to finish a new book, The Female Scale, which will provide insights on this issue. “It's not written specifically for women, but it's written with a very female lens. You know, the challenges that you encounter as a woman setting up a business, and there are, you know, so many female-led businesses, startups, smaller businesses out there.”

In this episode, Helen shared an astounding feat: They could exit Diversely.io, an end-to-end hiring platform that uses tech to reduce bias in businesses' hiring processes. By being acquired, she believes this platform will be more accessible to a much larger audience of sourcing and recruitment firms.

Learnings on Being Acquired and Exit Strategies

As a business owner, you may relate with me if you are also fascinated with stories of how exits and acquisitions work. I wanted Helen to walk me through what was involved in their acquisition process. She shared detailed stories of how it started, what was expected, and what happened. She also shared curve balls and how their expertise and networks played major roles in making the exit happen.

In hindsight, here are some learnings that Helen shared if you ever plan to exit or scale your business:

• Be more prepared for the level of due diligence you must go through.
• Be well-organized: ensuring all relevant agreements and data sheets are in one place.
• Invest in good lawyers and accountants - they are absolute lifesavers.

What resonated with me the most was Helen’s idea of the exit. It has always been purpose-driven.

“And you have to kind of, so when you're thinking about selling your business, it's not just about what I need from it as a dollar value. What can I also achieve off the back of that? What does that give me as a founder, as someone who's going on this journey?”

Building a Purpose-Driven Business Model

Building a business, especially focusing on recruiting and sourcing, is not always profit-focused. The vision and mission statements need to be clear, as the impact we can have on people can be life-changing.

This aligns with what Helen believes when creating a purpose-driven business model. This is how she described it:

“And it wasn't all about the dollar value. I think when you set up a purpose-driven business, it's very important to keep profit and profitability in mind because it's hard to create impact without that. It's not sustainable as a business or as an idea. But equally, you've got to balance it with, you know, what am I doing here to solve this problem, and how can I solve this problem? And we would have taken another god knows how many years to try and get to the scale that…”

When Helen co-founded Diversely.io, it was to solve her own frustrations as a female in a male-dominated industry. Her purpose was clear from the start - to help women and under-represented groups gain fair opportunities. This purpose-driven business model contributes well to her current successes and future aspirations.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Helen McGuire Bio and Contact Info

Founded the first women’s careers platform in the Middle East and Asia—Hopscotch.work—in 2015, Helen has won numerous industry awards for her work and led part of UN Women’s efforts to increase gender representation in the UAE.

To scale the impact of her mission beyond gender, Helen joined the tech start-up accelerator Antler in January 2020 with a vision to conquer the issues around DEI in the workplace through the use of technology. Diversely.io was that solution; a multi-awarded global AI-driven platform built alongside her co-founder, Hayley Bakker, and with the support of industry investors over four years. One of the world’s leading software companies, The Access Group, acquired the platform for an undisclosed amount in 2023 and continues to be integrated across its portfolio.

As host of The D&Igest podcast, Helen now utilises her formidable communications skills to give those who are making a difference in the global DEI space a voice. Professionally, she focuses on ensuring DEI is at the forefront of business strategy and coaches female founders on holistic business strategy. Her first book - ‘The Female Scale’ - is due in 2024, and she speaks and advises globally on the topic of DEI and creating purposeful businesses.

A communications professional of twenty years, Helen began her career in London, achieving her dream role at BBC Radio 1 in her early twenties, going on to produce, DJ and present for the music industry in over

• Helen on LinkedIn
• The D&Igest Podcast link

People and Resources Mentioned

• The Access Group website link
• Justin McGuire on LinkedIn

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#57 Diversity as a Differentiator – How Recruiters Can Attract 70% More Diverse Talent, with Helen McGuire

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn, * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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Measuring your company's economic influence drives self-motivation and is a powerful tool for marketing and business development. Jennifer Meyer of Govig Executive Search joins us in this episode to give insight on using specific metrics to measure your economic impact and how you can communicate it with potential clients.

Jen has a lifetime cash-in of $20M over her 26 years in the industry. She’s the SVP of Strategic Partnerships at Govig & Associates, where she’s at the helm of business development. She leads the overall team of 27 recruiters, actively front-facing with clients and playing a significant role in surpassing $14M in results.

Jen’s recruitment efforts have been vital in assisting small to mid-size firms, particularly those under private equity, to double in size. Jen’s placements have contributed to an economic impact exceeding $1B.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:51] Jen’s start in the recruitment industry as a college intern.
• [10:09] Differentiating techniques in communication and business development.
• [19:06] “Speak to them in their language”
• [28:02] Training your team to apply the TSI (Targeted Sales Information) approach.
• [40:00] How to quantify your economic impact.
• [50:41] A boutique recruitment firm’s differentiators against the bigger organizations.
• [54:53] Discussion on team development strategies.
• [59:18] Jen’s take on work and life harmony.

Quantifying the Economic Impact of Your Recruitment Business

Measuring your company’s economic impact can be significantly beneficial for at least two reasons. The first one is self-motivation; knowing how you contribute to the broader economy can positively impact and fulfill. The second one is on the marketing and business development side. It can help potential clients understand the bigger value you will bring to their organization.

Jen shared how she is able to track her placement’s economic contribution using specific metrics. Her placements overall have contributed to more than $1B in economic impact. She shared their formula: “We always talk about the size of our billings or our business in relation to what were invoicing or what our split was in relation to cash in. But we really should be talking about the salaries of the people that we place, you know, if you were going to relate it that way…Yeah, it does go beyond that, though, where you are at the, you know, again, at the basic level, you are affecting the person, and you're affecting the hiring manager. So that could be a times two, right?”

Here is a takeaway: Start trying to calculate the individual impact you're having in the world, particularly the positive impact you're having for your clients, and try to quantify that. If you have the appetite, even go back in history and try to work it out. But even just starting right now, try and figure out what difference you're making because that's really motivating!

Differentiating in the Business Development Side

A key topic I wanted to discuss with Jen is how she is able to differentiate, especially on the client acquisition and business development side of things. Jen has always been consistently recognized as a top performer in her career. I wanted to pick her brains on her approach when it comes to communicating with potential leads and candidates, and she surely did not disappoint. Jen revealed specific tips and verbiage that you may want also to use. Here are some key takeaways:

• Focus on authenticity and listening more by asking curious questions.
• Avoid typical questions like “Can I help you?” or “How are you doing?”
• Use power phrases such as “Are you in a place where you can talk confidentially?” or “I’ve only got a minute” instead of “Have you got a minute?”
• The effective use of body language.

She explained, “Whether you're 30 minutes into the business or you're 30 years into the business, everybody is saying the same thing and overcoming objections in the same way. So what can you do that just sounds different? You know what I mean? And I think if you think about it from a perspective of what that person is going to hear based on their world helps you...And so if you speak to them in their language, they get it.”

You will also hear Jen’s insights on developing her team to elevate their levels on the business development side, which is quite similar to the TSI (Targeted Sales Information) approach.

Team Development Strategies as a Billing Manager

A billing manager is a critical and challenging role in a recruitment firm. The role entails ensuring individual profitability while leading your team to do the same. Jen has been passionate about mentoring and developing her people, so I wanted to hear her methods in helping her team be successful. Jen elaborated on the following topics:

• Consistent deskside training.
• Real-time feedback and call reviews.
• The importance of teaching structure.
• Listening for opportunities in candidate interviews.
• Using a checklist.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Jennifer Meyer Bio and Contact Info

Over the past 26 years, Jen has been a guiding force, significantly influencing numerous organizations and professionals. She has generated over $20M in cumulative cash-in, contributing to an economic impact exceeding $1B. This remarkable achievement includes the highest fee, which is over $300k. Currently serving as the SVP of Strategic Partnerships at Govig & Associates, Jen plays a crucial role in propelling the company forward. She's at the helm of business development and leads the overall team of 27 recruiters, actively front-facing with clients and playing a significant role in surpassing $14M in results.

Jen's professional journey began with a 6-year tenure at an MRI office, where she consistently ranked in the top 10% among approximately 5000 recruiters at that time. She then co-founded North Coast ExecuSearch, Inc., where she served as a billing manager for 14 years, maintaining a position in the top 50 out of 750 offices worldwide. Jen's recruitment efforts have been vital in assisting small to mid-size firms, particularly those under private equity, to not only meet but also exceed their growth objectives, with several doubling in size and achieving revenues over $1 billion.

Jen’s work ethic is not driven by the desire for accolades but by a deep-seated passion for mentorship and forging lasting relationships. She believes in the collective improvement of the industry, emphasizing the importance of recognizing recruiters as valuable consultants and ensuring they are compensated fairly for their expertise. Her remarkable career is enhanced with numerous accolades, including her 24-time recognition as a "Pacesetter" Award Winner, her induction into the Hall of Fame and The Ring of Honor within the MRINetwork, and receiving the prestigious Alan R. Schonberg Lifetime Achievement Award for her revenue contributions and character and her acceptance to the Pinnacle Society over a year ago. Not to mention she is very active in a commitment to community service, most recently acting as the President of the MRINetwork Charitable Foundation, where she led the board to raise money for Shriners Hospitals for Children.

As Jennifer shares her insights, her quiet confidence, impressive achievements, and unwavering dedication to talent development serve as a powerful reminder of the influence we can all have in shaping the futures of many.

• Jen on LinkedIn
• Govig Executive Search website link
• Govig on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• Katherine Jerald on LinkedIn
• Brent Orsuga on LinkedIn
• Crelate

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#178 Top Producing Recruiter Reveals How to Win and Develop Key Accounts, with Katherine Jerald
• TRR#218 How Grit and Determination Fueled a $2M Recruitment Firm’s Success, with Brent Orsuga

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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Starting a recruitment business from scratch demands dedication, planning, and an aggressive approach to networking and client acquisition. You will also need a massive differentiator - and our special guest in this episode shared his approach to how he grew his search firm to more than $2M from scratch!

We are joined by Brent Orsuga. In this episode, Brent highlighted the importance of deep client relationships, strategic matchmaking, and staying motivated by setting high goals and continuously driving growth.

Brent Orsuga is the Founder of Pinnacle Growth Advisors, a headhunting and talent advisory firm solely dedicated to the Supply Chain and Logistics industry. Brent comes from 22 years of recruiting and 15 solely in Logistics. Brent helps companies, from startups to Billion-dollar companies, find the best people possible. Pinnacle Growth Advisors has won numerous awards over the past 10 years, including the INC 5000 fastest-growing companies.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:09] How Brent got into recruiting 22 years ago.
• [04:48] Applying the talent advisor approach as a recruiter.
• [08:43] How to “know the best seat in the house” - understanding your client via face-to-face [visits.
• [16:04] Brent’s story of building networks of relationships when he was only starting in the business.
• [24:57] Mindset and motivation - how a shoulder chip pushes Brent forward.
• [30:48] Daily routine discussion - waking up at 3:30 am to start the day.
• [37:00] Brent shares insights on the outputs and inputs that matter.
• [40:33] The story of the Inc 5000.
• [46:30] The reason behind Brent’s passion for Supply Chain and Logistics.
• [51:49] Brent shares great advice on not spreading yourself too thin and other success factors.

How Brent Started from Zero and Won the Confidence of Clients

Brent shared a very interesting story of how he got into the recruitment business and how he started his firm with no plan B or option of failing. He was initially a candidate who transitioned to becoming a recruiter, and making the most of his training eventually led him to be a successful search firm founder. As much as his origin story can be relatable to many recruiters who aspire to become business owners, one key topic that will resonate with a lot of our listeners is building relationships.

Brent strongly believes that building relationships is one of their business priorities. One of the biggest challenges he had to overcome was starting from zero and having no clients, candidates, or relationships to leverage. How he figured it out can be summarized on the following pointers:

• Performance / Numbers - “The best testimonial is results.” Brent emphasized how results speak for themselves.
• “Go up the elevator and pay your dues” - Brent elaborated his analogy of how showing results lead to more confidence.
• Mindset and Grit - having the desire to win and being inspired by his wife and kid pushed him to delivered results which eventually created more business relationships.

Applying the Talent Advisor Approach as a Recruiter

On the topic of being a partner rather than a vendor, Brent shared insightful ways on which he is able to build relationships with clients and candidates. “One of the biggest pet peeves that I have in recruiting is I feel like a lot of people are selling or pitching without knowing enough about the person or the company,” he explained.

Brent places high value on knowing clients and candidates on a deep level. He recommends visiting client offices in person to understand the layout, environment, and how the workplace generally feels. In his analogy, you can only describe how great a restaurant is after eating there. In his words, “So it allows me to come from a completely different lens and angle so that when I'm putting you in front of a company, it's not random, it's strategic.”

This approach enables him to be a talent advisor rather than a generic recruitment firm. It gives him the advantage of painting a really clear picture of what his candidates are walking into, which is a massive separator from his competitors.

Mindset and Grit - Brent Shares His Key to Success

Overall, what really fascinates me in this conversation with Brent is his grit, mindset, and daily routines. He has a very competitive mindset—to the point where he is even able to use a chip on his shoulder as a driver for success. He wakes up every day at 3:30 a.m., goes to the gym at 4, prepares breakfast for his kids at 6, and goes to the office at 7!

To start his day, he would listen to a 13-minute clip by Les Brown:”What I'm doing is I'm getting my mindset into a very positive motivated state. Intentionally. This is not random.” He then shared how his days look when it comes to making every day intentional and purposeful.

Brent also shared how he measures inputs and outputs, how he leads his team, and what culture he fosters for Pinnacle Growth. His consistent actions led to remarkable milestones for his firm, including being included in INC 5000’s Fastest Growing Companies.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Brent Orsuga Bio and Contact Info

Brent is the Founder of Pinnacle Growth Advisors, a headhunting and talent advisory firm solely dedicated to the Supply Chain and Logistics industry. Brent comes from 22 years of recruiting and 15 solely in the Logistics space. Brent helps companies from startups to Billion dollar companies find the best people possible. Pinnacle Growth Advisors has won numerous awards over the past 10 years including the INC 5000 for fastest growing companies.

• Brent on LinkedIn
• Pinnacle Growth Advisors website link
• Pinnacle Growth on Facebook
• Pinnacle Growth on Instagram

People and Resources Mentioned

• Jeremy Jenson on LinkedIn

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#217 How to Elevate Your Recruitment Firm to $12M with Effective Lead Generation, with Jeremy Jenson

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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Top-of-the-funnel lead-generation activities are a critical ingredient for a successful recruitment business. How do you strategize your lead generation to stand out in this age where all your competitors are probably doing the same thing you are doing?

We are really lucky to be joined in this episode by Jeremy Jenson, the founder and CEO of Encore Search Partners, the largest privately owned executive search firm based in Houston, Texas. Before starting his recruitment firm, Jeremy used to run a lead generation company for different businesses such as recruitment and search firms.

You will hear Jeremy’s insights and strategy on lead generation activities and how he transitioned into becoming the recruitment business owner of a $12M search firm.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:50] How Jeremy got into recruiting.
• [05:36] Business milestones - Overcoming adversity, rebranding, and hiring someone with more technical expertise.
• [13:02] Why recruitment business owners should hire and do things with others.
• [25:49] How EOS (Entrepreneur Operating System) can impact your business.
• [35:25] Jeremy’s insights on Lead Generation as a core strength.
• [45:10] Encore Search’s seven core values.
• [53:38] What made Encore Search win Best Place to Work in the Houston Business Journal?

From a Lead Generation Firm to a Recruitment Business - Jeremy’s Story

Jeremy’s story on what led him to the recruitment industry is fascinating. He started a lead generation company in 2010 - and upon realizing that more than half of his client base was sourcing and staffing businesses, he transitioned into putting up his recruitment business. His claim to fame was in lead generation, where he was the main lead generator, regularly feeding senior recruiters with leads.

His business grew and was billing a million in the third year when market and economic difficulty struck. He had to make a pivotal decision whether to shut his business and be a full-time employee or to keep on going. You will hear how his decision to stay in business paid off, and how implementing strategies to go national and hiring other senior leaders contributed to their growth.

I think many of our listeners can relate to what Jeremy went through. Starting your own recruitment business is not easy - you can get to the point where you are making 100k to zero in a month. Jeremy’s inspiring thought process and decision-making can inspire our recruitment firm owners who are going through the same ordeal.

The Pillars of Lead Generation

Jeremy’s transition from a lead-generation specialist to a recruitment business owner shows us the critical role of top-of-the-funnel lead-generation activities in business success. He shared insights on what makes lead generation his key strength. Here are the two pillars:

• Content - he emphasized the importance of proper story-telling. “Because if you can induce an emotion from your audience, that creates resonance. I don't think that our audience wants to see five tips on how to make your resume more marketable.”

• Email Marketing - he shared why it is important to utilize new tools and platforms to reach as many as possible. “And so we try to constantly look for new, innovative ways to steal market share.”

• Digital Marketing - Hiring a digital marketing coordinator to enhance brand loyalty and utilizing various platforms can significantly increase community engagement and brand building.

Having Structure in Place Means Sustainable Growth

Jeremy is a subject matter expert on EOS - Entrepreneurial Operating System. We discussed how a clear and consistent structure contributed to their business growth. He also touched upon the value of embedding core values to overcome big challenges they had to face by the time their business was growing.

He shared how excellence, resilience, gratitude, professionalism, coachable attitude, meticulousness, and competitiveness are deeply ingrained in daily operations, fostering culture through practices like core value spotlights during meetings. He also talked about transparency, and how it made their company a Best Place to Work award recipient in the Houston Business Journal.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained.

Jeremy Jenson Bio and Contact Info

Jeremy Jenson is the Founder & CEO of Encore Search Partners. Jeremy is a subject matter expert on The Entrepreneurial Operating System and prides himself on building Houston’s largest privately-held Executive Search firm on the back of his seven Core Values: Excellence, Resilience, Gratitude, Professionalism, Coachable, Meticulous, and Competitive. In his free time, he enjoys spending time with friends & his 3 sons. He is also a member of the Entrepreneurs’ Organization, a global co-op of over 17,000 entrepreneurs, worldwide.

• Jeremy on LinkedIn
• Encore Search Partners website link
• Jeremy on Instagram
• Path to Success podcast link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Who Not How, by Dan Sullivan
• Traction: Get a Grip on Your Business, by Gino Wickman
• Rocket Fuel, by Gino Wickman

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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Being a high biller requires a combination of hard work, skills, and strategies. But what does it really take?

My special guest, David Bradley, is a 29-year veteran who averaged $750k in annual billings his entire career! In this episode, David shares the strategies and mindset that make him a very effective recruiter! On top of that, David also manages high-volume accounts with a team of 60 headhunters. If you are a recruitment leader like David, you will find insightful takes on how he manages KPIs and how they drive a culture that is geared towards performance.

In 2009, David helped start Movement. He is a partner with Movement and has been an instrumental part in helping the firm grow from 3 to 65 plus headhunters over the past 14 years.

Movement has 5 brick and mortar offices across the United States.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:29] How David got into the recruiting business.
• [07:14] Top recruiter secrets & grinding on a 10-5-2 formula.
• [10:32] Structuring daily activities & time management best practices.
• [17:52] You need to get three critical pieces of information when speaking with a candidate.
• [24:26] The foundation of what makes David a successful recruiter.
• [26:50] Movement’s culture and mission.
• [34:30] Striking the balance when managing your team’s KPI.
• [37:40] Retaining the momentum in 2024 - key to continuous growth and eight-figure billings.
• [45:20] How Movement’s owners play different roles?
• [52:29] David’s future growth plans.

What it Takes to Be a Top Recruiter

What does it take to become a top recruiter? It certainly involves grind and hard work. David’s 29-year experience provides him with a credible perspective on what it takes to be successful. This also gives him an advantage as a recruitment leader - his capabilities are a testament to how his team has been performing. Below are the critical topics that David and I discussed:

• 10-5-2 Formula
• Being cognizant of your time
• Planning ahead of your phone time
• Mindset

If you are listening, as a recruiter or recruitment leader, David's insights are inspiring!

The Foundation of Being a Successful Recruiter

Being consistently successful in a long time requires more than hard work. There is something else and David generously shared his secret sauce:

“So I think having that gratitude, understanding that we get to talk to people for a living and have just an incredible life, incredible income opportunity, incredible balance, we can manage our life any way we want it… And I think that fuels getting up in the morning and saying, you know what? This is gonna be another great day. It's gonna be a great year. It's gonna be a great month. Well, if it's not been a great month, next month's gonna be great. So having that sort of mindset, I think, is really, and factor a lot of fun into this.”

This fantastic mindset is an invisible but highly influential factor that determines your success as a recruiter or recruitment business owner. Possessing a positive mindset enables us to navigate the favorable and unfavorable changes we encounter with resilience.

The Keys to Continuous Growth and Eight-Figure BIllings

David shares how Movement produced $20M in billings around 2022-23. It was a great year for them post-Covid, and the systems and frameworks they had at the time enabled them to retain the momentum even when things appear to slow down in 2024. I wanted to pick David’s brains on the culture and systems they have in place, given that not many recruiting firms get above 8 figures.

My takeaway is how they emphasise creating and enabling a culture geared towards high performance. They have annual trips for the top 10% of producers, on top of regular social activities and loyalty bonus programs. They also have annual meetings where they fly everyone in, including their staff’s spouses. Doing so contributes to relationship-building and as David said, “an essential part of the culture.”

David also discussed their profit-sharing scheme. What I also loved was his insights on managing KPIs while not micromanaging everything.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

David Bradley Bio and Contact Info

David is a 29-year veteran of the headhunting business. David stumbled into the business in 1995 when he was working with a headhunter to help him find a sales job. The tables got turned and David actually got hired as a headhunter. He spent the next 16 years working for Spherion. He enjoyed success right from the beginning. He billed $175K in year 1 and the following year billed close to $400K and he never looked back from there.

In 2009, he left Spherion (later known as Ranstad) to help start Movement. He is a partner with Movement and has been an instrumental part in helping the firm grow from 3 to 65 plus headhunters over the past 14 years. Movement has 5 brick and mortar offices across the United States.

• He has been a leading producer at Movement with 750+ placements since 2009 with the most placements in the firm's history (Personal billings of $1.3M in 2023, $1.1M in 2022, and averaged $750K+ in billings throughout his career)

• He manages high-volume accounts with a team of 60 headhunters

• He has helped mentor aspiring headhunters into the business.

• He has completed over 2500 placements throughout his career.

• Member of Pinnacle Society since 2023.

• David holds an MBA from Franciscan University.

David has been married to his lovely wife for 32 years and has 5 grown children (ages 17 to 31) He is an avid hockey player and resides with his family in Clarkston, MI.

• David on LinkedIn
• David on Facebook
• David on X (Twitter) @jdavidbradley
• David on YouTube
• Movement Search website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Pinnacle Society website link

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn, * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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In the evolving recruitment landscape where LinkedIn and ChatGPT dominate the conversation, one tool stands resilient: the humble phone call.

Is cold calling still a critical part of your recruitment and selling process? Can you be a successful modern recruiter while making zero cold calls?

I am thrilled to be joined by a veteran and successful recruiter, Danny Cahill. You will enjoy his insights based on his decades-long expertise in recruitment approach with a spotlight on the importance of using the phone for cold calls.

Danny started his recruiting career right out of college at Hobson Associates. He became its rookie of the year and went on to become a top producer and the general manager by the age of 26. At 27, he bought the company and built it into one of the country's largest search firms. Danny was the educational chairperson of the Pinnacle Society, 75 of the highest achievers in the industry.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:12] “Phone: Friend or Foe?” – insights on Danny’s talk at the last Pinnacle Society Summit.
• [09:50] Recalling the good old cold calling days.
• [13:08] Approaching the current landscape of a 5% call response rate.
• [22:09] Why must modern recruiters understand and maximize the phone's power?
• [32:33] “The phone call is a birthday card.” - Danny explains why effort toward candidates and clients can be a strong differentiator.
• [39:35] Can you be a successful recruiter nowadays without making phone calls?
• [45:39] Flipping the order – why the phone should come before email.
• [52:40] Thoughts and insights on AI.

How Veteran Recruiters Should Approach the Current Industry Landscape

I have known Danny for decades - he is a legendary recruiter and you can just imagine my delight when I had the chance to meet him in person at a Pinnacle Society conference last year. We discussed the talk he gave about using old-school cold-calling. Danny believes that using the phone is a critical skill for recruiters, especially before the advent of the internet. We recalled how exciting it was to not know in detail who you would be talking to, how skillful you should be when carrying conversations, and of course, going through gatekeepers before reaching your actual target.

But the landscape now changed. On average, you will only reach 5% of your prospects by phone. Danny believes that although it should be a combination of tools and platforms, making phone calls is more relevant than ever, as it can be a differentiator. This is how Danny puts it:

“If this helps you with your identity crisis, the thing that made you great is going to be more important than ever because you're not someone who just makes phone calls. The phone is your conduit to who you are, which is a storyteller, a persuader, an enabler of aspiration. We sell dreams. That's what we do. And companies are going to always use us. If you have a level of contact and subject matter expertise so that I feel like you can get candidates I can't get in a faster way.”

Flipping the Order – Why the Phone Should Come Before Email

On Hobson Associates’ website, you will see the line “We’re Always Available to You. By Phone. Online. Or in person.” This is aligned with how Danny wants the order in which their recruiters would reach out to prospects via phone before mail. I tried to pick Danny’s brain for this approach, and he explained the logic.

“Yeah, well, because I think the phone has some real advantages and it is direct. You know, people often say, well, email is faster. Oh, no, it's not. I see email exchanges all the time between clients.”

Danny also emphasized that the phone has some power to engage with prospects. “The power of the pause; the power of someone sighing. The thing about text, is that young people like text, because text can be filtered, text can be edited, right? You can wait and you can make a draft of it. Whereas with the phone, you can't skim a phone call. Right. You're on it. You're on the hot seat.”

Can You Be a Successful Recruiter With Zero Cold Calls?

We have members of our coaching group who are not really into making cold calls. We see recruiters who are making consistent placements without making a single cold call. With the power of LinkedIn, Social Media platforms, & AI, you can do a lot of business development that can translate to end-to-end sourcing and placements. The question is, can you be a successful recruiter without making cold calls?

Danny shared a fact from SourceWhale: 60% of meetings come from the phone call. It may not be the primary way of reaching prospects anymore, but possessing the skill of doing cold calls is a critical part of becoming a successful recruiter. But of course, Danny pointed out that there are so many ways of doing business. Those who can make it work without the need to do cold calls should keep doing what they are doing.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Danny Cahill Bio and Contact Info

Danny Cahill started at Hobson Associates right out of college. He became its Rookie of the Year, top producer, and general manager by the age of 26. At 27 he bought the company and built it into one of the country's largest search firms specializing in Software Sales, Bio-Tech Sales, and Industrial Sales talent. He is the only industry “guru” that runs a search firm every day. He does what you do.

He was the Educational Chairperson of the Pinnacle Society, 75 of the highest achievers in the industry, and he still personally mentors many members. He also owns and runs AccordingToDanny.com, an online training and mentoring company dedicated to enhancing the skills and jumpstarting the spirits of recruiters worldwide. His keynote presentations have made him one of the most sought-after speakers in the country.

He was elected to the NAPS Hall of Fame in 2006 and also received the Dave Knutson Lifetime Achievement Award. HireAbility overwhelmingly voted him the industry’s most popular speaker. AccordingToDanny.com was awarded “Best-In-Class” for Training Excellence from MRINetwork.

In his other life, as a playwright, he has had works produced off-Broadway and won both the Maxwell Anderson and the CAB Theatre Award for playwrights. He has written for CBS Television, Muscle and Fitness Magazine, as well as numerous magazines. He received his Master’s Degree in Literature from Wesleyan University and believes salespeople enjoy the world's only job security. Danny’s book, “Harper’s Rules”, a business novel/parable, which of course features a headhunter, won the 2011 Axiom Award for Best Business Parable. His screenplay, “Breakpoint” was optioned by Dialogue Pictures, and his new memoir, "Aging Disgracefully" is available now in bookstores and on Kindle.

• Danny on LinkedIn
• Hobson Associates website link
• Harper’s Rules by Danny Cahill
• How to Quit Golf (and Get Your Life Back) by Danny Cahill

People and Resources Mentioned

• Pinnacle Society website link
• Alex Elliott on LinkedIn
• Nate Zimmerman on LinkedIn

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#181 The 4 Core Sales Processes that Drive an Effective Client Acquisition Strategy, with Alex Elliott
• TRR#202 Top Private Equity Recruiter Reveals How He Built a $1,000,000 Practice, with Nate Zimmerman

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn, * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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Building a scalable recruitment business that operates seamlessly even without recruiters' direct involvement should not be just a dream—but a tangible goal. Balraj's achievement with Envision Education serves as a testament to what can be accomplished through strategic planning and execution.

Today’s episode explores how recruiters can build high-performing teams and a scalable business with a special guest, Balraj Guraya. As the founder and director of Envision Education, Balraj has not only grown the company into a high-performing team of 23 individuals but also strategically positioned himself to focus solely on scaling the business by replacing himself in the hands-on role in 2022

Tune in to gain valuable insights from Balraj's unique approach and what's working and not in building a scalable business that can thrive even when the founder isn't in the driver's seat.

Episode Outline And Highlights * [01:46] Why Balraj got into recruitment and started Envision Education * [05:20] How Balraj began his business and how things worked in the first year * [08:07] The biggest challenges Balraj encountered before building a team * [12:04] The key milestones of growing a team from 2 to 23 people * [15:06] How to structure the interview process and get the right people onboard * [22:37] Ways to structure your team and create an excellent candidate journey * [20:45] Steps to building a recruitment business that runs without you * [33:20] What contributes to creating a high-energy environment * [44:23] How to hire right and create a smooth transition into your culture * [48:28] The key to building successful business partnerships with Rec2Rec * [55:42] What candidate's journey is all about, and how it works * [59:11] How to design, roll out, and improve processes for scale * [01:02:04] Tip to conquer staff turnover and self-doubt as a business owner

How to Become a Manager and a Leader and Build Confidence in Your Effectiveness During our discussion, Balraj and I discussed his recruitment strategies at Envision Education. Founded in 2014, Envision Education addresses staffing shortages in Primary, Secondary, and Special Schools across London and the home counties. Balraj's vision has led Envision Education to become a high-performing team of 23 individuals. His journey includes transitioning from a hands-on role as a builder in 2022 to focus on scaling the business.

Balraj shares six key principles for recruiters aspiring to become effective managers and leaders in their business.

1. Self-motivation: As a recruiter, Balraj shares that you have to be very self-motivated and have the drive, energy, and focus to grow your business in the beginning to build a strong foundation for growth and expansion.
2. Be consistent: Balraj emphasizes maintaining a steady workflow and understanding that success takes time and effort. It’s not going to be an overnight achievement. So be consistent, produce the right quality and quantity of activity, and stay motivated.
3. Willingness to make mistakes: Recruitment takes work. It takes resilience, courage, and a willingness to put yourself out there, try uncomfortable things, make mistakes, and embrace them as learning opportunities.
4. Get the right people on board: Balraj emphasizes the pivotal role of team composition in driving success. He explains the importance of recruiting people who align with the company's values and attributes and possess the necessary skills to contribute meaningfully to the team's objectives. Having the right people on board is a game changer. It’s the difference between success and failure.
5. Structure your team: Structuring allows individuals to maximize their strengths and enhance overall performance. According to Balraj, structuring your team will help the team keep up and improve your turnover.
6. Coaching and development. Balraj highlights the importance of ongoing coaching and development in building a great team. Rather than solely focusing on placements, he emphasizes sharing knowledge and nurturing talent within the organization.

Ultimately, running a business transcends mere profitability; it represents a journey of personal development and collective growth—the continuous evolution of oneself and the team.

Steps to Building a Recruitment Business That Runs Without You Balraj shares invaluable insights into transitioning a recruitment business from a one-person 360 operation to a structured departmental setup, effectively replacing oneself in key roles. The key to this evolution lies in making strategic and sometimes costly decisions, recognizing that letting go of control is essential for scalability. Central to this process is:

1. Finding some key people you can trust: Find people you can trust, people who treat your business as more than just a job and are excited about helping your business succeed. They are the backbone of your business, embodying a commitment to its success beyond personal gain.
2. Have some high performers who you are consistently billing. Nurturing a cadre of high performers is critical for sustaining momentum and driving growth. These individuals excel in their roles and embody the energy and drive necessary to propel the business forward, even in the absence of its founder.
3. Design a structured, clear career ladder: According to Balraj, this is one of the best things you can do within your business as a recruiter. Designing and implementing a structured career ladder from the outset provides clarity and direction for employees within the organization. The framework creates professional development and instills a sense of purpose and belonging among the team.
4. Create a high-energy environment: Creating a vibrant, high-energy environment is key to enhancing engagement and cohesion within the team. Balraj emphasizes the need for regular team briefs and goal-setting sessions to align everyone with the company's vision and objectives.
5. Appreciation: Show appreciation not just to the sales team making the placements but to everyone, including the compliance team and the resource team. They are important in the work they do. Appreciation for all reinforces the value of every team member's contribution.
6. Work on what is most important: Balraj's "4 Ds" approach—Do, Defer, Delegate, Delete—provides a framework for delegating tasks and freeing up time to focus on strategic initiatives. Investing in the sales team and expanding recruitment consultant roles are essential steps before relinquishing direct involvement in day-to-day operations.
7. Develop processes: designing and implementing processes is indispensable for scalability. Balraj advocates for hiring or partnering with individuals possessing complementary operations skills to ensure the efficient execution of tasks and the seamless functioning of the business.

Scaling a recruitment business beyond the founder's requires strategic planning, delegation, talent cultivation, and process optimization. Embracing these principles paves the way for scale, sustainable growth, and long-term success.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software, combined with world-class training, enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Balraj Guraya Bio and Contact Info

Balraj is the founder and director of Envision Education, a recruitment firm he established in 2014 to address staffing shortages in schools across London and the home counties particularly within special needs education. Barlaj has grown Envision education to a high performing team of 23 people and was able to replace himself as a builder in 2022 so he can concentrate on scaling the business.

• Balraj on LinkedIn
• Envision Education Website link

Resources and People Mentioned * Ravi Tangri on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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Every successful recruiter will tell you success is born out of the grind, not the glory. Mastering the grind is the key to unlocking growth. Whether building a robust network, honing communication, or leveraging technology, recruiters must navigate the ups and downs with resilience and determination.

Today’s episode explores how recruiters can embrace the grind and build successful businesses with a special guest, Matt Ballema. Matt is the founder of Pioneer Search Group. With a track record of consistently surpassing the million-dollar revenue mark for the past three years, Matt brings over two decades of executive search experience. He specializes in material handling automation space and has placed professionals at all levels, from general manager, president, and COO to sales reps and engineers all over North America.

Tune in to gain insights on elevating your firm to unprecedented success. Matt's insights will inspire and enlighten you whether you're a seasoned recruiter seeking to optimize your operations or an aspiring entrepreneur looking to carve a niche in the industry.

Episode Outline And Highlights * [02:19] How Matt got into the executive search business space * [04:13] When Matt started the Pioneer Search Group * [10:40] The difference between burning out and embracing the grid * [18:34] What it means to work hard and be consistent as a recruiter * [20:03] Three important metrics to track in a recruitment business * [25:24] Key tools to adapt to stay with the times and leverage technology * [35:07] How to stay relevant as an executive recruiter in the digital environment * [39:10] How to create an in-house team structure for building your database * [42:58] The rainmaker model and how it works in a recruitment firm * [48:23] Leveling up your team and scaling back direct workload Vs retiring * [50:58] How recruiters make people multimillionaires, changed lives and family trees * [54:47] How recruiters can harness fear as motivation rather than a detour * [01:02:04] The mindset of successful recruiter and thinking of the long game

How Recruiters Can Navigate the Grind and Scale Their Recruitment Firm During our discussion, Matt and I discussed his recruitment strategies at Pioneer Search Group, which has been instrumental in building and scaling the firm. Pioneer Search Group specializes in executive search within material handling, power generation, and oil and gas industries across North America, placing top talent in various roles, from sales and sales management to director and VP/C positions.

Matt outlined six essential steps crucial for recruiters looking to establish or expand their executive search firm:

1. Entrepreneurship grind: Matt emphasizes the importance of embracing the search business grind mentality, regardless of the revenue goal. Whether it's a million dollars or $250,000,. It doesn’t matter; you must be willing to grind and embrace the grind to achieve.

2. Alignment: Before embarking on becoming an executive recruiter or starting a search firm, Matt highlighted the necessity of ensuring alignment with one's partner, as the pursuit can be very demanding.

3. Hard work and consistency: Hard work and consistency are the hallmarks of a successful recruiter. Recruitment is an activity-based business, and Matt encourages recruiters to focus on data analytics, planning, and tracking metrics.

4. Build your database: According to Matt, as a recruiter, diligently working on and growing your database is the foundation for turning leads into lead generation, both on the candidate and client sides.

5. Stay relevant: From a marketing perspective, Matt advised recruiters to brand and package their services effectively, leverage team efforts, technology, and persistence to maximize engagement and seize opportunities.

6. Turn fear into motivation: In the placement world, there are many things that recruiters have no control over, but setting fear aside and going for it will keep you achieving your goals. As a recruiter, having the courage to chart your own course is essential for success in the industry.

Building and growing a recruitment firm requires persistence, hard work, and a grind mentality. With the right work ethic and mindset, achieving success in the field is feasible and inevitable.

How To Stay with the Times and Leverage the Technology Matt shares that mastering market efficiency is paramount for any search firm, describing it as thrilling and daunting. He reflects on his own journey, explaining that until 2016, he operated without a database, relying instead on a platform called Highrise, primarily effective for realtor and sales roles. Though functional, it proved inefficient and costly to maintain. Matt underscores the urgency for small search firms to streamline their operations, as larger ones have the money and resources to innovate in this area faster. He stresses the importance of market mastery, cautioning that failure to adapt risks will result in missing out on business opportunities.

In addition, Matt highlights the challenge of navigating through the overwhelming digital landscape, where everyone vies for attention on platforms like LinkedIn. He emphasizes the need for recruiters to remain relevant amidst the noise to stand out. According to Matt, the true differentiator in the recruitment industry is hard work—specifically, the relentless pursuit of connecting with candidates, persuading them, and ultimately closing deals.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training, enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Matt Ballema Bio and Contact Info

Matt is the founder of the Pioneer Search Group, an executive search firm specializing in sourcing top talent in the Material Handling, Power Generation/Oil and Gas Industries across North America.

For the last three years, Matt has built over a million dollars a year. Matt specializes in material handling automation space. His own background is in material handling equipment sales, an industry he knows and is passionate about. Matt has been in the executive search business for over 20 years. He has placed professionals at all levels, from general manager, president, COO, and VP to regional sales, manager, sales rep, and engineers all over North America.

• Matt Ballema on LinkedIn

Resources and People Mentioned * ZoomInfo * PC Recruiter * Outlook * Hinterview

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR #133 How this Top Producing Recruiter is Putting Health, Fitness, and Family First * TRR #46 How to Run a Million-Dollar Recruiting Firm From Your RV

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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Scaling a recruitment firm to 10x growth in a challenging market demands a strategic approach focused on innovation, adaptability, and talent development. All of which Tom has mastered and has been able to 10x his firm's growth over the past decade. Tom scaled Fraser Dove International from 5 employees to a workforce of 50 employees spread across two offices in the UK, one in Switzerland, and another in the US.

In this episode, we discuss strategies for success and capitalizing on new opportunities in the recruitment industry with a special guest, Thomas Dove. As the co-founder and CEO of Fraser Dove International, a leading global search firm and talent consultancy specializing in Life Sciences, Tom brings a wealth of experience to the table. He started his recruitment career in the early 2000s in a large, corporate, multinational environment and transitioned into the global executive search world before starting his own recruitment firm.

Tune in to gain invaluable insights from Tom on achieving exponential growth and staying ahead of the curve in an ever-changing market. Whether leveraging innovation, promoting adaptability, or investing in talent development, Tom provides valuable perspectives to help recruitment firms thrive amidst evolving challenges and emerging opportunities.

Episode Outline And Highlights * [02:38] How Tom got into the recruiting space * [04:52] What it takes to start and 10x a recruitment firm * [09:42] How to refine your roles in a partnership for scale * [11:50] How to unpack your job and hire people with the potential to grow * [20:33] Ways recruiters can stop being the bottleneck in their businesses * [24:38] Tips on how to drive high-performance standards hands-off * [26:42] How recruiters can create processes and pathways for excellence * [34:15] How to play to people's strength in a challenging market * [37:10] Practical steps to becoming a great recruiter in a tough market * [41:27] How to generate your production at a high level while developing others * [49:11] The 360 business development for turning candidates into client * [52:28] What OKRs are and how to use them within a recruiting business * [01:04:04] How to develop a unique language and integrate it into a business culture

How Recruiters Can Unpack Their Job and Find More Opportunities During our conversation, Tom and I discussed Fraser Dove's remarkable growth, expanding globally by 10x over the past decade. Tom describes how refining his and his partners' roles and constantly reevaluating their jobs has been pivotal in unlocking new opportunities and perspectives. He emphasized the importance of periodically stepping back, assessing tasks, and delegating effectively. For Tom, recognizing when he's overwhelmed with tasks outside his core focus signifies an opportunity to recalibrate priorities, leading to the discovery of fresh avenues for growth and innovation.

Tom also shed light on their thought process and hiring approach at Fraser Dove. Over the past decade, they've reviewed and refined job descriptions a notable 15 times, two times a year, when onboarding new leaders. They adopt a dual hiring strategy, defining immediate roles while envisioning how these positions will evolve over the following 12 to 24 months. This forward-thinking technique ensures alignment between organizational needs and individual aspirations, fostering a dynamic and adaptable workforce.

As a scaling company, Fraser Dove understands the importance of articulating its mission and vision to potential hires, positioning itself as an employer of choice within the competitive executive search landscape. Tom underscored the importance of communicating career trajectories and growth opportunities to prospective employees, as this distinguishes recruiters as visionary employers. This approach attracts top-tier talent and serves as a guiding principle for recruiters and leaders within the organization, aligning efforts toward a shared vision of the future.

How Recruiters Can Stop Being The Bottleneck In Their Business Recruiters who attempt to maintain complete control over every aspect of their operations often stunt growth rather than enhance it. Tom admits to possessing a hands-off control-freak mentality, recognizing that true success lies in effective delegation and empowering others to excel without micromanagement. By letting go of responsibilities and entrusting capable individuals, recruiters open doors to success.

In the episode, Tom shares 7 practices for recruiters to avoid being the bottleneck in their business;

1. Create Value: The cornerstone of any successful business lies in delivering value to customers. To achieve this, it's imperative to provide individuals with the autonomy and space to innovate. By creating an environment where people have the freedom to unleash their potential, remarkable outcomes can be achieved.

2. Be Inspired by Others: While shouldering more responsibilities may seem like the path to inspiration, true enlightenment often comes from letting go of control and allowing others to shine. By embracing delegation, recruiters open themselves up to new perspectives and innovative approaches.

3. Get the Right People: Building a high-performing team starts with strategic recruitment. Through thorough discovery briefings, asking pertinent questions, and establishing clear search metrics, recruiters can attract individuals who align with their vision and values.
4. Best Practice Mindset: Establishing organizational processes creates a culture of excellence. By ensuring everyone from the oldest to the rest of the tribe buy-in to doing things correctly, recruiters can elevate their performance and drive sustained success.
5. Retain Your Best-Oriented People: According to Tom, retaining the best people helps build organizational intelligence because the knowledge doesn’t leak away. It creates a reservoir of talent and knowledge about the best practices that can be passed down to later generations.
6. Balance: Success in the recruitment industry demands proficiency in various recruitment aspects. While mastery may not come instantly, recruiters must continually strive to develop their skills. They can carve a career path to success by identifying strengths and focusing efforts accordingly.
7. Develop Others Around You: Tom shares that true leadership involves nurturing talent and fostering growth in others. Recruiting recruiters can cultivate a continuous improvement and achievement culture by leading by example, providing guidance, and inspiring those around you.

In essence, success in recruitment is not about shouldering every task alone but rather about empowering others and creating avenues for excellence to thrive.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training, enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Thomas Dove Bio and Contact Info

Tom is one of the co-founders and CEO at Fraser Dove International, a global search firm and talent consultancy in Life Sciences.

Tom started his recruitment career in the early 2000s in a large, corporate, multinational environment, which was an excellent place to learn the fundamentals. He transitioned into the global executive search world, helping scale a business to build a 10-office network in Europe, the Americas, and Asia before starting his own entrepreneurial journey in 2013 with Fraser Dove International.

Tom scaled Fraser Dove with no outside investment to 45 employees with 2 offices in the UK, 1 in Switzerland, and 1 in the US.

• Tom Dove on LinkedIn
• Fraser Dove Website link

Resources and People Mentioned * Joe Curtis on LinkedIn * Talent EcoSystem at Fraser Dove * Mike Dickson on LinkedIn * Rocket Fuel by Gino Wickman

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR #185 How to Scale Your Recruitment Business While Becoming the Employer of Choice

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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Growing a recruitment business to 7 or 8-figure portfolio companies might be much simpler than you think. Few firm owners achieve this, but Aaron Opalewski stands as an example of this entrepreneurial success. He co-founded his first staffing company at just 24 and has nurtured his second venture into a portfolio of seven staffing companies across various industries. Remarkably, three companies consistently make 8-figure revenues, while one of them, Spark Packaging, hit 7-figures within its first year.

In this episode, we discuss invaluable insights on how recruiters can fortify their businesses for growth with a special guest, Aaron Opalewski. Aaron is the CEO and founder of Spark Talent Acquisition, a company he launched in 2013 at the age of 29. He is also a partner in two other companies outside of staffing and holds investments in the food and beverage industry.

Join us as we explore strategies for structuring businesses, optimizing operations, boosting gross profit, delegating tasks, nurturing client relationships, and building successful partnerships. Tune in for a wealth of wisdom and actionable advice from Aaron's journey of entrepreneurial triumph.

Episode Outline And Highlights * [02:38] How Aaron got into the recruiting space * [03:59] What it takes to start and launch a staffing company * [08:00] The keys to a successful business partnership * [09:54] How delegation and promotion have helped Spark Talent excel * [15:18] How to structure a recruiting company for lifetime customer value * [24:33] Tips on how to nurture clients and maintain good relationships * [30:10] How the contract and direct side of a recruiting business works * [32:35] Why GP is the most important metric for growth * [38:06] How to identify target companies for merger and acquisition * [41:27] How to get alignments and nurture clients on social media * [44:57] How mergers work in improving GP to over the million dollars range * [48:25] Growth loops and profit strategy to level up business operations * [57:15] What is the difference between recurring and contract revenue flow

How Recruiters Can Structure Their Firms for Lifetime Value During our conversation, Aaron and I discussed Spark Talent and how he has steered it into a thriving portfolio comprising seven staffing companies across different sectors over the past decade. Aaron shares that everyone assumes the role of recruiters within his business. As the founder, he personally interviews prospective team members, positioning himself as the primary recruiter across all his ventures. He emphasized the importance of this role, asserting that as a business owner, one must take charge of internal recruitment, honing recruitment skills as diligently as serving clients. Aaron firmly believes that sourcing and nurturing the right talent through extensive training, coaching, and support makes success almost inevitable. He stressed that while failures may occur in other aspects, assembling the right team and fostering their growth ensures a solid foundation for success.

Discussing the organizational structure, Aaron outlined the various roles within their teams and business setup, which include recruiters, account managers, business developers, internal and external apps teams, and portfolio managers overseeing the seven companies. Aaron underscored that recruiting forms the cornerstone of their operations, extending to every area of their business, even extending to the front-end relationship with business development personnel. However, in the early stages, Aaron recalled a time when salespeople juggled multiple roles, from accounting to business development and recruitment. However, he acknowledged that this approach diluted the customer experience and diminished lifetime value, prompting them to restructure and specialize roles for optimal efficiency and client customers' lifetime value.

Nurturing Client and Building Longterm Relationships Aaron shares the importance of nurturing clients and building long-term relationships. He explains how customers' value has changed over time. In 2018, they were actively building with 80 to 90 clients every week, focusing heavily on business development. By 2019, they had signed over a hundred new service agreements, but their active clients remained the same. In 2020, their active clients started to decrease, making Aaron realize they needed to do a better job to improve.

To address this, Aaron explains that they had to shut down new business development from March 2020 to the end of 2022 to concentrate on building their client base. It wasn't until 2023 that they resumed the new business development lever, raising their active service agreements to over 50%. However, Aaron acknowledged they still have much work to improve further.

Aaron then shared strategies for building and nurturing clients:

1. Mindset Shift: Aaron emphasized the need to shift from a mindset of easily finding new clients if things don't work out with current ones. He believes this mindset can harm client relationships and should be addressed through cultural values within the team.
2. Training for Maintaining Relationships: According to Aaron, maintaining good customer relationships is often overlooked and never discussed enough. Recruiters should make training an ongoing development to remind their teams of the things they have learned and what they need to tweak
3. Focus on Value: Aaron highlighted the significance of consistently delivering value to clients. He encouraged recruiters to always find ways to deliver value, fulfill their promises, go above and beyond, and exceed client expectations.
4. Role Clarification: Running a recruiting business is a lot of work, and ensuring roles are well-defined can help recruiters avoid diluting the value they offer clients. Having clear roles and responsibilities helps improve services, strengthen client relationships, and scale the roles effectively.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training, enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Aaron Opalewski Bio and Contact Info

Aaron is a true entrepreneur; he cofounded his first stuffing company at just 24. He is now the CEO and founder of Spark Talent Acquisition, a company launched in 2013 at the age of 29. Since then, the business has grown to a portfolio of seven staffing companies in diverse industries. Three of the stuffing companies he built consistently generated 8-figure revenues, and one of the Spark Packaging companies achieved 7-figures in its first year. Aaron's entrepreneurial spirit does not stop there; he is also a partner in two other companies outside of staffing and holds investments in the food and beverage industry.

• Aaron on LinkedIn
• Aaron on Instagram
• Aaron on Twitter
• Spark Talent Website link
• Spark Companies website link

Resources and People Mentioned * Mike Williams on LinkedIn * Spark Packaging * Manan Shah

• TRR #210 3 Key Steps to Boost Your Recruitment Team’s Performance

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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Do you need help building lasting relationships with candidates after placement? Scaling a recruitment business and manually nurturing relationships can be overwhelming, leaving little room for other essential tasks. But what if there is a way to automate this process?

To answer this question, we discuss how recruiters can automate their recruiting process, workflow, and campaigns with a special guest, Manan Shah. Manan is a Co-founder at Recruiterflow. He has scaled Recruiterflow to a 50-person team working remotely while staying profitable from day one. Manan has a long history of building software businesses and a wealth of knowledge on recruitment technology, artificial intelligence (AI), and automation.

Tune in and get invaluable recruiting and sales tactics, philosophies, and tools for building teams and relationships for scale. This is an opportunity to revolutionize your recruiting process, build relationships with a large pool of top candidates, and create a funnel of repeat customers.

Episode Outline And Highlights * [02:27] How Manan transitioned from engineering to running software companies * [09:59] 3 strategies for building teams for scale and lasting growth * [12:21] Five values and attitudes to interview for when hiring * [18:40] How to scale a recruitment agency with non-sales people * [21:45] 3 steps to help your sales team develop the skills to be successful * [27:03] How to optimize your workflow and process with automation * [28:33] Two critical tools for recruiters to drive sales and relationships * [32:30] How to automate your candidate nurture campaign sequence * [41:57] Two tactics every recruiting business should leverage to deliver value upfront * [45:58] How to build a consistent MPC process for your recruitment business * [52:11] How recruiter can make it easier to build market maps * [55:34] Three key metrics recruiters need to track to increase their revenue

5 Essential Strategies for Building High-Performing Recruitment Teams Manan and I discussed his secrets to success at Recruiterflow, and he shared five essentials for building teams in a growing recruitment business.

1. Keep a close eye on your resources: Manan emphasized the importance of managing resources closely, especially in the early stages when resources are limited. As a recruiter, you have to consider your resources when making decisions.
2. Hire for attitude rather than altitude: The right people can learn a lot on a job, but if they don’t have that inherent curiosity and empathy for the customers and their colleagues, they can’t grow with the company and become great contributors.
3. Growth environment: Manan stressed the importance of creating an environment where employees can learn, grow, innovate, and make mistakes freely, emphasizing the symbiotic relationship between individual and company growth. It’s a journey that is rewarding for them and the company as well.
4. Hire experimental, high initiative, and high agency people: Manan advocated hiring individuals with a proactive and decisive mindset, capable of taking ownership of problems and finding solutions across teams. Additionally, he highlighted the importance of recruiting individuals who actively seek feedback, as it’s a vital component of continuous improvement.
5. Lastly, Manan highlighted the importance of cultivating a culture where individuals can disagree constructively but remain fully committed to executing decisions once they're made, ensuring unified progress towards common goals.

These strategies serve as a roadmap for recruiters seeking to build resilient and agile teams capable of thriving in a rapidly evolving industry landscape.

The Power of Nurturing Candidate Relationships Manan highlights two primary motivations that drive hiring managers to enlist the help of recruitment agencies. Firstly, time is often a critical factor. Many hiring managers face the urgent need to fill roles swiftly, sometimes within weeks or months, while the internal hiring process could take considerably longer—up to two months. Secondly, recruitment agencies offer access to valuable relationships. Recruitment agencies provide a distinct advantage in a landscape where job information is readily available, and individuals can easily connect on platforms like LinkedIn. They possess a vantage view of the industry and collaborate with diverse clients, enabling them to offer candidates various opportunities across different companies and positions. This breadth of choice enriches the candidate experience, fostering stronger relationships, which, in turn, presents an invaluable resource for clients who struggle to cultivate such connections independently.

Manan also shares the importance of nurturing candidate relationships beyond the initial placement. He observes a common oversight among recruiters who must maintain contact with candidates once they secure a position. However, this represents a missed opportunity. Cultivating candidate relationships extends far beyond the immediate placement, offering substantial potential for scalability. As candidates progress in their careers and are promoted to decision-making roles or become hiring managers, the recruiter can benefit from additional revenue streams without requiring extensive new business development efforts. This emphasis on relationship-building creates a cycle of repeat customers, illustrating how continuous engagement with candidates can yield long-term dividends for recruitment agencies.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Manan Shah Bio and Contact Info

Manan is the Co-founder of Recruiterflow, an ATS and CRM built specifically for recruiting and executive search businesses. He has scaled Recruiterflow to a 50-person team working remotely while staying profitable from day one. Manan has a long history of building software businesses, starting his first in 2013, which he successfully scaled and exited at 26. He has a wealth of knowledge about recruitment technology, artificial intelligence (AI), and automation.

• Manan on LinkedIn
• Manan on Facebook
• Manan on Twitter
• Recruiterflow website link

Resources and People Mentioned * LinkedIn Sales Navigator * Alex Beaty * Alexis Alvarez

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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Are you a solo recruiter curious about achieving extraordinary billing figures with just a handful of daily conversations? Meet Craig, a solo recruiter who's been smashing records. For the last 3 consecutive years, he’s billed over $1.25m as a solo recruiter, reaching a career milestone of $1.5m in 2023, which was a down year for many recruiters.

In today’s episode, we explore how solo recruiters can level up their recruitment game with conversations even when times are tough with a returning guest, Craig Picken. Craig is the co-founder and Managing Partner for Northstar Group, a boutique executive search firm based in Wilmington, NC.

Tune in and get invaluable insights from Craig's unique approach that challenges the norms and redefines what's possible for solo recruiters in today's competitive landscape. His ability to navigate the complexities of talent acquisition is truly remarkable. Whether you're a seasoned recruiter or just starting out in the industry, this episode offers actionable tips to enhance your recruitment conversations and propel your career to new heights.

Episode Outline And Highlights * [03:47] The conversations that contributed to Mike’s 1.5m billing record * [06:37] What qualifies the right conversations and people * [10:03] Two tools for tracking recruitment conversation * [14:42] How to ring the phone and create “spontaneous conversations.” * [20:11] How to position yourself for the long game and value “not transactions.” * [27:53] Non-negotiables for success when partnering with a client * [34:50] How to avoid burnout: Solo recruiters' physical and mental self-care tips * [42:14] What solo recruiters can do to level up to $3-400k recruiters * [48:35] Craig’s philosophy of content creation and tactics for writing * [54:54] How podcasting can drive conversations and position you as an expert * [57:26] Strategies to building a 10K people email list for your podcast * [58:44] How to do outbound calls and the volume of calls to puts out there * [01:01:08] What solo recruiters need to do today to be successful tomorrow

5 Steps to Level Up Your Recruitment Business Craig and I discussed his recruitment strategies at Northstar Group company, a boutique executive search firm based in Wilmington, NC, that focuses on recruiting senior-level leadership, sales, and operations executives for some of the most prominent companies in the aviation and aerospace industry. Craig’s clients include well-known aircraft OEMs, aircraft operators, leasing / financial organizations, and Maintenance / Repair / Overhaul (MRO) providers. With a track record spanning over a decade, Craig has personally concluded hundreds of successful executive-level searches across a variety of disciplines.

Craig outlined five essential steps for recruiters looking to elevate their game:

1. Invest in Yourself: Craig emphasized the importance of self-investment, urging recruiters to spend some money, go to conferences, engage in level-up conversations, and continuously seek opportunities for personal and professional growth.
2. Follow the Right People: Recognizing the challenges of talent acquisition, Craig advised recruiters to connect with industry leaders to enhance their credibility and reputation as go-to experts. Following the right people will help you become a destination of choice.
3. Know who you are working with: Success in recruitment, according to Craig, hinges on understanding your clients, delivering value, nurturing relationships, and adopting a long-term perspective.
4. Choose Your Battles Wisely: Drawing from his experience and insights from the Naval Top Gun program, Craig shares a valuable lesson: “If you can’t win the fight, don’t fight. Go away and come back. Live to fight another day,” which is a great philosophy in recruiting.
5. Differentiate yourself: Craig encouraged solo recruiters to carve out their unique identity and differentiate themselves from the competition. Whether through thought leadership on platforms like LinkedIn or showcasing their authentic self, it can significantly impact their success in the field.

Ultimately, leveling up in recruitment involves positioning yourself as a trusted industry expert, promoting your voice, and leading by example.

Positioning Yourself In The Market Craig shares the importance of positioning oneself in the market not merely as a transactional recruiter but as an invaluable resource, an expert dedicated to adding tangible value. By prioritizing value over closing deals, recruiters can elevate their status in the client's eyes. Rather than seeking short-term gains, they should aim to build lasting relationships grounded in trust and mutual benefit. According to Craig, the last thing he wants to be in his life is transactional, which is here today and gone tomorrow.

Positioning yourself in the market is about relationships and being with your clients every step of the way. It’s about maintaining a client-centric approach throughout the entire engagement process, being present, reliable, and supportive at every stage, regardless of the challenges or obstacles. This commitment to the long game ensures that clients and prospective clients feel supported and understood, strengthening the bond and attracting more business.

In addition, Craig advocates for prioritizing integrity over immediate financial gain. When recruiters focus on delivering exceptional results, monetary rewards will naturally follow. Don’t succumb to desperation or compromise on your principles for money; this can lead to dissatisfaction and ultimately damage the client relationship. Be willing to walk away from situations that don't align with your values to ensure you can pursue mutually beneficial partnerships built on trust and respect.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Craig Picken Bio and Contact Info

Craig is the Co-founder and Managing Partner for Northstar Group, a boutique executive search firm based in Wilmington, NC. Craig is focused on recruiting senior-level leadership, sales, and operations executives for some of the most prominent companies in the aviation and aerospace industry. Clients include well-known aircraft OEM’s, aircraft operators, leasing / financial organizations, and Maintenance / Repair / Overhaul (MRO) providers. Since 2009 he has personally concluded several hundred executive-level searches in a variety of disciplines.

• Craig on LinkedIn
• Craig on Twitter @craigpicken
• Craig on Facebook
• Northstar Group website
• JDRF website

Resources and People Mentioned * LinkedIn Sales Navigator * Clockwork Recruiting

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR #22 Craig Picken’s Journey From Naval Aviator to Big Billing Solo Recruiter

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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Are you looking for innovative ways to elevate your recruitment firm's brand and solidify its presence in the industry? Podcasting might be the game-changer you haven’t tapped into yet.

In today's episode, we explore the powerful impact podcasting can have as a branding tool in the competitive recruitment industry. Our guest, Mike Richards, CEO & Founder of The Treasury Recruitment Company and host of the successful Treasury Career Corner podcast, shares his journey and provides a blueprint for podcasting to strengthen your brand's reach, authority, and engagement.

Tune in for actionable tips, inspiring success stories, and strategic insights on effectively utilizing podcasting to highlight your recruitment brand and deepen your connection with your audience. Whether you’re new to podcasting or looking to refine your approach, this episode is packed with valuable takeaways to help your recruitment firm stand out.

Episode Outline And Highlights * [01:51] Mike’s background and what he does in the finance recruiting * [02:56] How Mike got into the recruitment space * [04:31] Mike's highs and lows as a founder in the treasury recruiting space since 2002 * [07:20] 3 Lessons Mike has learned from over 20 years of building a resilient business * [09:40] Measures Mike has in place to ensure he doesn’t put his business at risk by overspending when he is doing well. * [11:26] Mike’s settlement period and how he makes sure he gets paid without ruffling too many feathers * [15:03] Policies to encourage prompt payment within the guaranteed period * [17:55] How much Mike has implemented from Profits First book * [20:28] When Mike started the Global Salary Survey, they systemized it and how it works * [24:45] How Mike uses Global Salary Survey for marketing purposes * [28:48] How data empowers the provision of market insights and intelligence to your clients * [29:43] What inspired Mike to launch his podcast and the keys to his success * [34:29] Mike's podcast strategy and how his podcast has spanned off to other opportunities * [43:42] How Mike manages the cashflow issues and the cost of running his podcast events * [47:28] What Mike is doing in marketing that is working well for his company * [49:33] Mike's techniques for leveraging social media for his business * [53:46] Marketing engine: Getting in front of people who are interested in your offer

Drivers of Success For Your Recruitment Business Mike and I discussed his recruitment company, Treasury Recruitment Company, which is a truly global treasury recruitment firm established in 2002. It specializes in global treasury recruitment and supports both permanent and interim assignments, giving its clients greater flexibility and choice. The company boasts a track record of successfully placing candidates at all levels, from corporate treasury to analysts and directors and across various sectors from multinationals to consultancies.

During our discussion, Mike shares three invaluable lessons gleaned from over two decades in the recruitment industry, each contributing to the resilience and success of his business.

Firstly, he emphasized the importance of prudent cash flow management. Mike highlighted the tendency of many recruitment firms to overlook the economics of their spending when they are doing well, leading to potential pitfalls such as imprudent trips, expansion, or investments.

Secondly, he underscored the necessity of closely looking at and monitoring your finances, income, and expenses and ensuring the fuel gauges are topped up for smooth operations.

Lastly, Mike stressed the interconnectedness of these lessons, emphasizing that financial health is the lifeblood of any business and that careful attention to cash flow, income, and expenditure is fundamental to long-term success.

The Role of Podcasting in Recruitment Branding Using podcasting to grow your recruitment business revolves around sharing compelling stories, providing an avenue for expression, and maintaining consistency. Mike shares that when they started the Treasury Career Corner Podcast, their audience was modest, with their episodes gaining about 30, 40, or 60 downloads. Despite initial skepticism about the investment, Mike highlights the value of engaging even a small audience, equating it to the opportunity of speaking directly to a handful of attentive individuals about your recruitment services.

Over time, their podcast's reach grew significantly, now averaging 400 to 500 downloads per episode and boasting a total of 135,000 downloads. Mike believes that the importance of his podcast goes beyond just the statistics. The podcast has opened up opportunities for him, such as invitations to national conferences where he could make meaningful connections and meet fascinating guests. The stories shared on his podcast have helped establish him as an authority in his industry.

We all begin somewhere, and initially, according to Mike, attracting 10 or 20 highly engaged prospects is pivotal. While quantity holds importance, prioritizing quality is paramount. It's not about attracting a considerable number of people but rather connecting with individuals who are genuinely interested and attentive to what you offer. Building a community of interested prospects is far more valuable than having 10,000 cold prospects.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Mike Richards Bio and Contact Info

Mike Richards is the CEO & Founder of the Treasury Recruitment Company.

Established in 2002, The Treasury Recruitment Company are the only truly Global Treasury Recruitment firm in the world. They recruit at all levels within Corporate Treasury from Treasury Analyst to Treasury Director for multinational corporates, consultancies and a range of financial institutions.

Mike regularly speaks at Treasury Recruitment conferences such as the EuroFinance International Treasurers Conference, the Windy City Summit – Chicago and AFP USA Treasurers Conference about;

• the power of personal branding
• how to attract, manage and retain treasury talent
• the latest trends happening within the global treasury recruitment market.

In addition Mike also hosts the popular podcast www.TreasuryCareerCorner.com where he interviews treasury professionals about their careers.

• Mike on LinkedIn
• Mike on Twitter
• Mike on Facebook
• Mike on Youtube
• The Treasury Career Corner Podcast link
• Global Treasury Salary Survey link

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

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Are you a small executive search firm striving to stand out among large competitors in the industry? Fear not, for opportunities abound for those who dare to innovate and differentiate. While larger firms may wield extensive resources and brand recognition, small firms possess agility, adaptability, and personalized services that can be leveraged as competitive advantages in the ever-evolving recruitment landscape.

I am excited to share this episode with special guest, Bob Kondal, a top-performing headhunter in Private Equity and Private Credit. This episode is packed with behind-the-scenes stories from twenty years of experience in recruitment that you don’t want to miss!

Bob and I touched upon relevant topics such as winning clients as a small firm, storytelling in business, prepping for client meetings, MPC marketing, diversity, and how we achieves a 100% offer to job accepted ratio - that’s right, zero turn-downs.

Episode Outline And Highlights * [02:36] Rocky start – Bob’s first recruiting job at Huxley Associates; how he progressed from being on the verge of quitting to becoming the top biller * [08:42] Bob’s journey from recruiting to equity trading to starting his own search firm * [10:50] Challenges and successes: Bob’s milestones as a solo search firm owner * [14:27] How to shift client’s misconception that working with the bigger search firms will yield better results * [19:30] How to use superior performance metrics as a selling point * [23:07] Storytelling in business: How to pitch against larger firms and win * [30:01] Prepping for a client meeting * [33:18] Memorizing teams: Bob shares why and how he memorized teams * [40:06] Execution: Bob's process that allows him to achieve zero job turn-downs * [44:55] Opportunistic introduction: How often Bob uses MPC marketing to spark conversation with potential clients * [50:29] The trend toward Diversity in private equity and private capital recruitment * [51:32] Discussion on “Thinking Fast and Slow” * [1:00:09] Investing in your copywriting skills and Bob’s book recommendation * [1:01:34] Why Bob practices Brazilian Jiu-jitsu and how it applies to the world of recruitment

4 Ways to Stand Out From the Competition and Win New Business as a Small Firm

Bob goes to great lengths to stand out from the competition. He believes that so many recruiters are looking for a quick fee, with little regard for the long-term results, and do not spend enough time understanding candidates or the employer they are representing.

He describes 4 different strategies he uses to stand out and stay at the top of our game.

1. The power of storytelling: Bob attributes their high interview acceptance rates and minimal drop-offs to the clarity of their approach. Instead of simply sending job listings, he advocates engaging candidates through a 30-45 minute discussion about their career.
2. Getting market research and execution right: You only need two things in search: research and execution to help you as an organization achieve zero turn-downs and maintain a competitive edge. This enhances attention to detail, which not only wins business but also cultivates stronger client relationships and satisfaction.
3. Prepping for client meetings: One of Bob's key insights around client meetings is how extensively he prepares. In addition, he runs the meeting quite differently to other recruiters, for example asking about their investment philosophy.
4. Memorizing teams: Bob explains that the client, as a search headhunter, wants to know if you, as a recruiter, know their market inside out. During Covid, Bob set himself a challenge to memorize whole teams, including where they went to university, what they studied and what grade they achieved.

Like me, you will admire Bob's refreshing, proactive, responsive, and highly professional approaches and how he delivers service to his clients.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Bob Kondal Bio and Contact Info

Bob has 25 years recruiting experience. He started his career with Huxley Associate in SThree. At the time Huxley were the most profitable company in SThree. Bob was the all-time top producer at Huxley in 2001. He's focused on Executive Search in Private Equity and Private Credit for the past 18 years and runs his own firm, Melrose Partners. He was also an equity investor in the City and was a regular commentator on CNBC. His peers from his previous employer are European and Global Heads at Heidrick & Struggles, Russell Reynolds, Spencer Stuart etc.

• Bob on LinkedIn
• Melrose Partners website link

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Mike is a firm believer that you can win clients through LinkedIn. You will hear an amazing story about how Mike received an inbound enquiry from a VP of HR at a billion-dollar company because of a story he posted on LinkedIn. That senior executive became a client, and gave Mike a lot of repeat business, which might never have happened without that LinkedIn post.

Mike also shared how consistent posting helps build a “continued relationship” with potential leads that you may have a cold called before. Here are things that you will find insightful in this section of the episode:

• Why consistent posting can win your clients in the long run.
• Overcoming fear and imposter syndrome when posting LinkedIn content.
• How to generate ideas for your LinkedIn content.

Follow Mike Williams on LinkedIn:

Carnegie Partners website link

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

If you have been enjoying the podcast, please take a moment to leave a review. Your feedback is much appreciated as it helps us reach a wider audience and assist more recruiters.

Here is the link to leave a review: https://lovethepodcast.com/theresilientrecruiter

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Effective employer branding is not just about attracting candidates but also about retaining existing employees. A positive work environment and reputation increase employee satisfaction and reduced turnover. As a recruiter, how can you partner with your client companies to achieve employer branding objectives?

To answer this question, I am delighted to have a very special guest, Bryan Adams, CEO and founder of Ph.Creative, an award-winning employer branding agency with offices in Liverpool, London, San Diego, and Auckland. Bryan shares insights and strategies on creating an effective storytelling framework to apply this branding philosophy: repel the many and compel the few.

Bryan helps his clients define their essence as a company, both in its uniqueness and what it stands for, and then crafts and aligns those aspirations with the people his clients are looking to attract. They’ve worked with famous brands such as Apple and Nike. He is also a two-time best-selling author. His latest book is Give & Get:Repel the Many and Compel the Few with Impact, Purpose, and Belonging. He has written for the Harvard Business Review, Inc.com, the Entrepreneur magazine, and has been featured in Forbes.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:22] How Bryan launched his branding agency.
• [05:45] DIscussion on employer branding and the philosophy of attracting the right people.
• [13:01] Roadmap in helping your client attract the right people.
• [18:02] What are the components of a good employer brand?
• [27:41] Bryan gives us key stories from his book, Give & Get Employer Branding.
• [30:36] What mistakes do companies make concerning employer branding?
• [37:31] How can recruiters partner with their client companies in achieving the objectives of employer branding?
• [43:00] Book recommendations and references on storytelling.
• [48:10] Employer branding case studies on small to medium-sized businesses.

Repel the Many and Compel the Few - A Guide on Employer Branding

Recruiters are ambassadors of their clients. Understanding the employer brand of the company they represent is crucial to attracting the right candidates. Effective employer branding is critical for attracting, engaging, and retaining top talent. It goes beyond just salary and benefits; it encompasses the company's values, culture, work environment, opportunities for growth, and overall employee experience.

Contrary to the notion that the correct branding should attract as many candidates as possible, Bryan believes that doing it right should only compel a few, well-screened candidates. He said:

“And it's interesting still in a recent survey, 70% of employer brand leaders still cite an increase in volume of applicants and traffic to their career site as a success metric when delivering an employer brand. I've never met a TA leader, a talent attraction leader who just wants more applicants, more noise, more admin, and more work to get to the people who are ideally matched.”

Bryan shared case studies of corporations and small-medium businesses they worked with and how the right employer branding worked well to find the right people. Bryan pretty much defined the right approach to branding when he said “The idea is, if you're confident and clear enough to know your culture and what it takes to drive the organization forward, and you also can answer some fundamental questions of not just why people join, but why they stay, then you can craft a give and get proposition which is a two-way value exchange of not just what you stand to get as an employer but actually what you're willing to give in return candidates and employees alike can make very informed career decisions as to whether it's an ideal match.”

How to Strategize a Good Employer Brand

Bryan shared the mistakes companies make when envisioning and strategizing their employer brand. He also shared vital pointers and elements to consider in designing and marketing effective talent branding. It leads to creating a communication framework, which should include the following:

• Research - the goal is to look for something authentic enough for employees to try on and recognize their personal experience in the messaging that you will put out.

• Ask the right questions - organizations need to ask the right questions and get the right information to create a messaging that makes sense for them while compelling a segment of the talent audience that they are targeting.

• Messaging - Bryan described it clearly: get a 360 view and design the messaging to touch a very tangible bridge between the reality of today and the aspiration of tomorrow.

• Brand Essence - just like Nike’s “Just Do It” campaign, a clear brand essence needs to start a conversation where people can look at the sentiment of what you are saying and be intrigued or make an interpretation that can create an affinity with the audience.

Bryan also discussed the importance of storytelling. He mentioned that this is part of what makes their company successful and also shared books and references that you can look into if you plan to begin engaging in this skill.

How Can Recruiters Promote Their Client’s Employer Brand?

How can recruiters partner with their client companies in achieving the objectives of employer branding? I was interested in picking Bryan’s brains on this question and he was able to give insightful advice which is to focus on creating a compelling story structure.

“The formula is this: empathy, curiosity, surprise, insight, and action,” Bryan said. This approach to creating a story structure he shared is interesting as it is backed up by psychology.

This is how he explained it: “Empathy is an emotional immediate connection to the organization, what they're trying to do, and the purpose and vision of the organization. Curiosity is something that differentiates you from everybody else and gets people to lean in. So there's an emotional connection and now we're leaning in. Surprise is here's three things that you didn't know. You weren't expecting this. So what we're doing is we're playing with, we're opening the right side of the mind now, the right side of the brain, such that you're now ready to receive facts and information, insights and specific that you can deliver about the role. So we've talked about the company, maybe there's curiosity about the team and the specific objectives in that team, then insight around the specific role, and then we make a call to action. Usually, the call to action ties everything together from a purpose perspective. And if you walk through that formula, it's incredibly powerful if you have a proposition that's compelling and true that plays on all of the strengths that we've talked about.”

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Bryan Adams Bio and Contact Info

Bryan is the CEO and founder of Ph.Creative, recognized as one of the leading employer brand agencies in the world with clients such as Apple, American Airlines, and Entain. Bryan is also a bestselling author, podcaster, creative strategist, and specialist speaker.

Bryan has interviewed over 50 of the world's greatest storytellers including Seth Godin, Gary Vaynerchuk, and Robert McKee to strengthen knowledge and fuel a passion for what it means to effectively move people with language.

He is considered a prominent employer brand thought leader and his creative, unconventional, and even controversial methodologies are said to regularly change the way people think about employer branding and EVP.

• Bryan on LinkedIn
• Ph.Creative website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Give & Get Employer Branding: Repel the Many and Compel the Few with Impact, Purpose and Belonging, by Bryan Adams
• The Hero’s Journey by Joseph Campbell
• Winning the Story Wars: Why Those Who Tell (and Live) the Best Stories Will Rule the Future, by Jonah Sachs
• Guerilla Marketing: Easy and Inexpensive Strategies for Making Big Profits from Your Small Business, by Jay Levinson

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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Are you familiar with the term “ 4.0 Leaders”? If you are, then you understand the value of hiring such leaders in whichever niche you serve, especially in this age of the industrial revolution through artificial intelligence.

I am excited to share this episode as we have a returning guest, the Rogue Recruiter, David Perry. We recorded this episode on his birthday. And you know that it will be an episode packed with exceptional expertise and behind-the-scenes stories from 35 years in executive recruitment.

David and I touched upon relevant topics such as building strategic, long-term client relationships and the art of placing the right candidates within a company's culture. We also covered how their project, workinsight.io, can change the current hiring landscape. Lastly, David shared his insight on what recruitment will look like and why hiring 4.0 leaders is a critical role of recruiters.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:09] Pool Table Analogy - David reveals the strategy in his 35-year career in executive recruitment.
• [08:02] Pointers on pre-closing deals and establishing long-term client relationships.
• [19:22] “Executive Recruiting for Dummies” - Why David writes the questions and runs the candidate interview with their clients.
• [26:06] Educating your clients on the cost of a bad hire while quantifying your added value to their organization.
• [29:00] Be inspired and don’t give up: David shares his story about his early struggles in his recruitment career.
• [32:24] What is Workinsight.io and how can it be a game changer as a matching platform for candidates and employers?
• [52:18] Teaser on David’s new book - “Revolutions Need Leaders”
• [1:00:05] David shares why they send a 27-page proposal to their clients.
• [1:07:00] Book recommendations from David and why he never stops learning from others.

Strategize Your Recruitment Like a Pool Master

Before we recorded this episode, he had recently closed around 750K in fees. I wanted to get his insights on how he can consistently deliver in the industry for 35 years.

If you are familiar with the game of pool or billiards, you will relate to David’s analogy about his strategies that keep him at the top of his game. He describes his approach, “You play pool, right? Most people and most recruiters are usually good for sinking a shot. Maybe a second one, okay, rarely a third one, yep. Rarely can someone clean the table. So this is how we think about search. We get a lot of inquiries to do work for companies… That's like playing pool. Before we do a deal we want to look down the table and go, okay, what's the next ball, what's the next ball, what's the next ball? And oftentimes we won't take a search because we can't see the next one.“

David elaborated on the following techniques:

1. Focusing on client relationships, investing time to understand their culture and what fits in their organization. Doing so can make placing three people with one company easier than three people with three different companies.
2. How to pre-close a deal through an intake call with the client via Zoom call that will lead to a face-to-face discussion.
3. Running the interview questions to the candidates, with the clients on the side.

Like me, you will admire David’s tenure and expertise and how he delivers his service to his clients.

Democratizing the Job Search Process

David and I discussed their exciting website project: workinsight.io. Work Insight is a recruiting platform designed to be candidate-centric by allowing them to have a level of anonymity. The approach is inspired by dating sites, like Bumble or Tinder. The goal of the platform is to democratize recruitment - “This is designed to help people get the right role. That's why it's free. It's free for recruiters to use and post. It's free for job hunters to come and find jobs and post credentials. So we're trying to democratize the hiring that way. This way, smaller companies who've got a great idea can find people and do it themselves At the same time.”

There are at least two job search frustrations that the platform can solve:

Shortening the job search process: In the US, Davide mentioned that the average job search time is 38 weeks. Workinsight.io can enable a continuous opportunity flow, which will force employers to “be smarter and fairer with the candidates that they have, because now, all of a sudden, the whole market is fluid.”

Solving the “hired for skill, fired for fit” dilemma: As David mentioned, “We've known for four decades hired for skill, fired for fit. If we know this doesn't work and we know that the turnover rate stays at a steady 24%, why don't we fix that?” The platform has an upcoming feature that matches candidates to companies based on cultural fit, aiming to address the high turnover rates caused by mismatches in company culture. This service is available for English-speaking individuals across various roles, industries, and locations.

Having a Glimpse to the Future of Recruiting

I was also fortunate to get a teaser of David’s new book “Revolutions Need Leaders” which addresses these revolutionary changes in recruitment and provides insight into the High Definition of Recruiting (HDR) methodology. David touched upon the impact of leaders like Sam Altman, whose leadership inspired loyalty and action from employees at OpenAI, exemplifying the power of what we term "4.0 leaders." These leaders focus on team success rather than individual achievements and are not easily found through traditional recruitment methods. We discuss strategies for identifying and engaging these elusive candidates, including using LinkedIn effectively for signaling and vetting prospects.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

David Perry Bio and Contact Info

David is a seasoned search professional and has completed more than 1500 projects and negotiated more than $400 million in salaries. He is a bestselling author and his books have been translated into French, Hungarian, Vietnamese, and Chinese.

David is a student of leadership and its effect on organizations ranging from private equity ventures to global technology corporations. David has built an extensive personal network of leading CEOs as well as up-and-coming future executives, permitting him to find the most qualified candidates to grow a company and increase stakeholder value. PMI’s Inside-Out Approach™ methodology allows clients to rapidly assess critical human qualities, track record, and leadership experience.

David is frequently quoted on trends and issues regarding executive search, recruiting, and HR in leading business publications including Daily Commercial News, The Wall Street Journal, Canadian Business, EETimes, BOMA Monthly, and HR Today, and appears regularly as an executive search and labor market analyst for CBC News World and CTV Television.

As HR Policy Advisor of the Canadian Advanced Technology Alliance (CATA), David has developed an extensive knowledge of leadership, innovation, and technology – like SMART Buildings. This ever-evolving expertise keeps him at the pulse of the most innovative and successful leaders. David recently served two terms on the board of Women in Communications and Technology. David is the past Chair of the Canadian Technology Human Resources Board and a board member of the Software Human Resource Council. He was chair/vice chair of South Hull Elementary School for fourteen years.

David graduated from McGill University in 1982 with a Bachelor of Arts degree in economics and industrial relations. As well, David is also a Commissioned Officer in the Canadian Reserve, where he graduated top in his class and was awarded the Sword of Honor by Brigadier General JB Dabros. He recently received the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal.

• David on LinkedIn
• David on X (Twitter) @RougeRecruter
• Perry-Marterl International website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Read the First Chapter of “Revolutions Need Leaders”
• Workinsight IO website link
• Executive Recruiting For Dummies - a book by David Perry and Mark Haluska
• The Win Without Pitching Manifesto

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#26 Canada Day Special: How the Rogue Recruiter Closed 1100 Searches, with David Perry

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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In the fast-paced world of recruitment, you’re under constant pressure to deliver results for your clients and achieve sales targets. So what’s the secret to maintaining peak performance without burning out?

In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, our special guest, Scott Eastin, provides a fresh perspective on achieving sustainable, long-lasting success in recruitment. Drawing from his own successful career, having navigating many ups and downs, Scott emphasizes the pivotal relationship between prioritizing health and recruitment success.

Scott is the Director of Eastin IT Security. Over the last 13 years established himself as a leading Microsoft Security consultant. He’s worked with major organizations such as Coca-Cola, American Express as well as state and local governments. For the last 5 years, he’s built an IT consulting and staffing firm winning high-value, long-term projects that generate recurring revenue.

In this episode, Scott unpacks his remarkable transition from being a software developer to becoming a successful recruiter. He divulges his four cornerstone strategies for business development. Most importantly, emphasizes why prioritizing physical health is a non-negotiable component in maintaining his overall productivity.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:25] Scott’s journey from being a software developer to a successful recruiter.
• [10:14] Insights on challenges when transitioning to a career in recruiting.
• [14:47] Sharing a story of how embracing an idea that was not done became a game-changer.
• [24:00] Scott’s Top 4 Business Development strategies
• [30:35] Hosting networking events - an effective way to engage with your community.
• [36:15] Comparison of consulting practice versus permanent direct hire models in the tech space.
• [44:36] Managing cash flow challenges in a consulting and IT staffing business.
• [54:40] Mindfulness, health and well-being.

The Advantages of a Consulting Business in the IT Space

Is it easier to manage an IT consulting business model versus a permanent direct hire practice? For Scott, having a consulting business model works well for him for the following reasons:

• Trusted Independent Contractors - He has already established a network of reliable independent contractors, which makes it easy to take in projects from his clients.

• Long-term Contracts - Because of quality service delivery, he can secure long-term contracts that assure him six-digit revenues at the beginning of the year.

If you are running an executive search firm or permanent hire practice, you might want to consider exploring the option of a consulting or contract service as an additional revenue stream. Scott believes that this is a great time for such a business model:

“Quite frankly, if you look at the statistics that are coming out now, more and more people are interested in contracting and independent consulting work. I know I was reading an article from the staffing industry where I think they said literally 38% of the U.S. workforce has done some type of gig work.”

Of course, there are also challenges in this type of business model, such as cash flow management - sometimes you would have to pay your contractors before the client even pays you. Scott shared how he solves this. He also elaborated on his approach to business development.

The 4 Cornerstones of Scott’s Business Development Strategy

Scott describes himself as a “reluctant salesman.” Before becoming a recruitment business owner, he had this preconceived notion about salespeople: “Selling is somewhat, maybe a dirty word for some people in the technical industry.”

Part of his journey is getting over that mindset. Scott’s primary principle regarding selling and business development is “Great service, great people, and great value.” He shared four key pointers about this topic and elaborated on how this helps him to get continued repeat businesses:

1. Referrals - Scott’s mantra of great service, great people, and great value is the foundation of providing excellent services consistently. This leads to referrals and repeat businesses across his market and industry.
2. LinkedIn Visibility - Scott consistently posts content and videos on LinkedIn.
3. BDR - Scott hired an experienced Business Development Representative part-time on a contract basis to make cold calls and set up sales appointments for him.
4. Hosting meet-up events - this is something that Scott picked up from one of our guests in a previous episode, Steven Li, and he is thankful that he applied this approach.

Mindfulness, Health, and Well-Being

Being a one-man shop is not easy and can be stressful. Scott shared how he manages stress by prioritizing his health and consistently implementing healthy habits.

“I learned my lesson over the years where when I did not take my fitness or health very seriously, I was not at my best.”

Scott does P90X training, distance running, and regular functional gym sessions. As a recruiter or business owner, prioritizing health is not only essential for your well-being, but it also contributes to a more productive, positive, and sustainable work environment. Scott shared, “I'm just so much stronger, so much fitter. And so it's one of those where it's very cliche to say health is your first wealth, but you know, no matter how much success you've got, if you don't have your health, it's not worth anything.”

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Scott Eastin Bio and Contact Info

Scott Eastin was a leading Microsoft security consultant for the last thirteen years. Scott has worked with major organizations including Coca-Cola, American Express, and numerous other global firms as well as state and local governments.

Over the last five years, Scott has moved away from development and now spends most of his day helping the Microsoft business partner community find top-tier independent Azure consultants. Scott’s network of Azure security consultants spans North America along with world-class talent from Central Europe.

Scott resides in Decatur, GA with his wife, two dogs, and two teenagers who he hopes will move out once they graduate.

• Scott on LinkedIn
• Eastin IT Security website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Steven Li on LinkedIn
• Plamen Ivanoff on LinkedIn

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#175 How to Build Trust and Relationships at Scale by Hosting Meet-up Events, with Steven Li
• TRR#43 How to Transition From Contingency CV Supplier to Consultative Retained Recruiter, with Plamen Ivanoff

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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The recruitment process is inherently human-centric, involving evaluating soft skills, cultural fit, and personal interactions. While AI can streamline specific tasks, it may struggle to assess these qualitative aspects effectively. As a recruitment business owner, how do you marry automation and artificial intelligence with a personal human touch?

My special guest, Christina Stroud, shares her insights and perspective about this subject. She has a unique approach to engaging with her clients and candidates while leveraging automation with a personalized human touch.

Christina is the founder and CEO of Group928. She’s a seasoned Human Resources professional with over 30 years of experience specializing in start-ups, acquisitions, and exits in private equity environments. The company has grown by 400% in just three short years from $125,000 in the first year to over $500,000 in 2023. This showcases her ability to build a client base from scratch, and design and implement sales and marketing strategies while continuing to exceed her client’s expectations.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:57] Chrstina’s Transition from an HR professional to a recruitment business owner. Insights on how her HR experience played a role in her current success.
• [07:49] Nobody said it was easy - overcoming a challenging first year of entrepreneurial leap.
• [12:41] Growing the company to 400% - discussing two critical success factors.
• [18:18] The importance of stepping out of your comfort zone
• [28:13] Leveraging AI & automation while applying a personal touch.
• [40:33] Launching her podcast and engaging with thought leaders.
• [48:01] The most significant challenges that Christina had to navigate
• [58:49] What is next for Christina and Group 928?

An Entrepreneurial Leap is No Walk in the Park, But Undeniably Achievable

For many reasons, shifting from a recruiter to a business owner can be difficult. The risk and uncertainty, working long hours, and lack of security and benefits can deter many from the entrepreneurship journey. Overcoming these roadblocks is achievable - and Christina proved it is. This is how she described the first year of her entrepreneurial journey:

“It was hard. I, you know, that first year, it was hard for me emotionally. I had never stepped away from a regular paycheck. And so to go into owning my own business, not having a steady income or a check that gets directly deposited every other Friday was very nerve-wracking for me… It hurt my ego a little bit when I went two months without getting, uh, a paycheck, but then once I got my company started, uh, I was glad that I did and it made sense, but that transition, uh, is very hard for a lot of people and it was also hard because I had never done any type of sales or marketing or bringing in new clients.”

It was not a walk in the park, but Christina’s mindset and belief system helped her figure things out and pull things together. She revealed two critical factors that significantly contributed to her success.

Christina’s Two Critical Success Factors

In three years, Christina grew her company by 400% from $125,000 in the first year to over $500,000 in 2023. This is an astonishing achievement, as companies usually plateau after reaching their first six digits. Christian shared two critical success factors:

1. Getting out of her comfort zone: “I had to take every little thing that needed to be done as a challenge. I did all the work myself. I was, you know, doing sourcing and interviewing and all the emails and communication. And that taught me a lot of new skills and things that I had to try and push myself to do that I hadn't done in a very, very long time”. Christina shared how she had to learn technology and AI, start her podcast, and other new skills.

2. Leveraging automation for sales and marketing - this was also not easy for Christina because technology is also not her cup of tea. “Those people who know me know I have a technology dark cloud that follows me. It is a struggle wherever I go for whatever reason. And so to think that I would be using this as one of my main tools to try and find clients and at least start that initial relationship was very daunting.”

Many can relate to the subject of automation and AI as it is a hot topic when it comes to balancing it with personalization and ingraining a human touch. Christina shares her best practices.

Utilizing AI and Automation with a Personalized Approach

Christina’s approach to personalization is her unique value proposition. She shared her process:

Research “And so when I went into my own business, I knew that's what I had specific target companies that I knew I wanted to work with. I had researched them. I had figured out where they were location-wise, and what the size of the company was. I started researching the CEOs and the head of HR and make sure they had the type of career and background of people that would be interested in working with recruiters whom they had a relationship with”

Personalized Communication “My communications were very personal. It wasn't, hey, here's what we do, here's what we can offer you, here's how I'm gonna change your life. It was a lot more of, here's what my other clients are seeing. You know, here's what I know about the market if it makes sense for us to have those conversations help you in the future, that would be great”

Going above and beyond “We've also done gifts. So we went kind of old school. Remember at Christmas you used to get lots of plates of cookies and treats and stuff from vendors or at least I know HR folks do. I used to have a desk full of boxes of things from folks who wanted to work with our company. So now as a recruiter, I do that as well, but I don't do it at Christmas time.”

Leveraging AI and automation is indeed an effective way to market and engage with clients if infused with a personal human touch.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Christina Stroud and Contact Info

Christina is the Owner and Co-Founder of Group928. She started her career at BMW Manufacturing where she progressed through multiple leadership positions across the Human Resources organization throughout her 14-year tenure with the company. The scope of her BMW experience spans US and International operations and includes positions in Recruiting, HR Operations, Change Management, and work as an HR Business Partner. Christina’s first exposure to a start-up business was with Venture Capital-backed Proterra, a high-growth green-industry manufacturer of vehicle power and charging solutions. At Proterra, Christina built and led the HR team and hired and developed the company's Executive team. From Proterra, Christina joined Day & Zimmerman, a $2.4 billion family-owned global construction company. While there she led an HR function responsible for four business units and instilled focus on making people strategy a competitive business advantage. Christina was recruited to Private Equity-owned Multi-Pack Solutions, a contract packaging company for medical devices, as head of the national Human Resources function. In 2017 Christina joined the 35-person executive recruiting firm Westport Intl as a Managing Director, the last position she held before co-founding Group928.

Christina holds a bachelor's degree in Financial Management from the College of Business & Behavioral Science at Clemson University and a master's degree in Human Resources from Clemson University. She lives with her family just outside of Greenville, SC.

• Christina on LinkedIn
• Group 928 website link
• Manufacturing 365 podcast link

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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With over a million dollars billed consecutively for the last two years, and career billings surpassing $6.6 million, Nate Zimmerman is a Senior Partner and Executive Recruiter at High Country Private Equity Search, based in Denver.

In this episode, Nate shares his journey from breaking into recruitment by cold-calling the firm owner to becoming the youngest Partner in the firm’s history. He breaks down the key milestones along the way from hitting $400K, to breaking 7-figures, to building a team.

Nate has distinguished himself in the competitive world of recruiting with his relentless focus on putting the relationship before the transaction. You’ll discover the work ethic, strategy, and mindset required to reach $1M in annual billings.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:44] How Nate’s recruitment career began with a cold call.
• [09:15] Why Nate chose to specialize in Private Equity Executive Search.
• [10:33] Putting in the work early and laying the groundwork for future success.
• [15:06] Nate’s journey to becoming the youngest partner at High Country Private Equity Search.
• [22:20] Discussion on Nate’s approach to MPC Marketing.
• [26:33] Billing a million dollars for the first time.
• [35:54] Nate’s recruitment philosophy: “relationship before transaction.”
• [41:33] How Nate developed market mastery in his chosen niche
• [49:51] Juggling multiple priorities as a billing manager
• [55:24] Overcoming setbacks - what Nate learned from missing his billing goal in 2023.

Laying the Groundwork for Future Success

Nate’s success can be attributed to his work ethic and belief in investing time and effort to develop his skills. “Knowing the underlying fundamentals, that is what I focused on initially,” explained Nate. “How to recruit people, how to interview people, how to take a job order, how to get a job order. Those things you got to put in the time and effort.”

A major differentiator that Nate shared is how he makes the most of his time - “On the weekends, spend two to three hours, Saturday and Sunday, every weekend during the first couple of years into this industry doing that really basic research. It's contributing long-term to your market mastery. Every hour that you are spending… it's all going to pay dividends.”

He shared his typical day looking at job boards. He emphasized the importance of quality , leading to talk about his MPC and targeted marketing strategies. He also elaborated on his thought process and what is going on in his mind as he achieve his milestones. The important takeaways from this part of our conversation are the value of discipline, consistency, and having a clear vision to align your habits and processes in achieving your goals.

Billing A Million Dollars for the First Time

One of Nate’s significant milestones is when he billed a million dollars for the first time. I had to probe for what he did differently on top of his discipline in planning, allotting extra time to research, conducting weekly internal training, and so on. He successfully laid down his groundwork for success and meeting the seven-digit billing is an astonishing achievement.

Here is what Nate had to say: “You always have to figure out, okay, who's going to be my honeypot next year? And if it's the same client as your best client multiple years in a row, I can assure you that's not going to continue, right? The fees stop coming. So that was a big thing. And frankly, a lot of that did come through referrals. I was very fortunate, but I've gotten to a point now where I'm realizing that, hey, that luck, that it's not forever. So you're gonna have to go out and make that luck next year. Go get that next big client. Don't wait for one of your clients that you're doing such a great job for. You deserve those referrals, but that doesn't mean they're gonna come.”

Deep-diving on this topic further, Nate also shared several important key factors to help recruiters and recruitment business owners meet their billing goals:

• Focusing on relationships first before doing transactions. Nate shared why he puts effort into meeting his clients face-to-face.
• Finding the best candidates and “living inside their heads”. For Nate, it means “to understand, their motivations, their family, you know, where they wanna be in five years. That's always the most important question. I tell candidates, look, you know, it's my job to give you an option and then it's your job to decide.”

Critical Learnings from 2023

It may sound like Nate has the Midas touch, where he turns everything he touches into gold. On the contrary, it was never a walk in the park. Nate even shared why they are currently at an inflection point this year because of a setback in terms of expected versus actual revenue. So I wanted to hear the learnings from his perspective that he is willing to share for the benefit of our listeners. Nate shared that even if the market is unpredictable and can be difficult, we should focus on the things we can control. He mentioned a few action items that they will implement, such as leveraging technology, doing roadshows, and setting up email campaigns.

I admire Nate’s resilience this is a recurring topic in our coaching calls. Focusing on things you can control and influence is one of the many ways to make your recruitment business recession and future-proof.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Nate Zimmerman Bio and Contact Info

Nate specializes in finding ultra-high-performing talent for private equity firms, real estate investment firms, asset managers, and family offices. Nate believes it’s fundamentally valuable, regardless of the search, to focus always on the relationship before the transaction. First and foremost, his mission is to deliver excellence to his clients and candidates and purposefully build long-term relationships that produce value for years.

• Nate on LinkedIn
• High Country Search Group website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Pinnacle Society website link
• Atomic Habits by James Clear
• Interseller

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#59 How to Build a Multi-Million Dollar Team of Recruitment Rockstars, with Monte Merz

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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This episode is not only special but also exceptional! We will not only be hearing from one or two guests, but you will also hear a panel interview featuring three special guests. Join me in this conversation with Joe Rice, Annie Colabella, and Matt Walsh. If these names ring a bell, it's because all three have graced our podcast as guests before and are esteemed members of the Pinnacle Society.

You will hear our discussions that will reveal the DNA of a million-dollar biller and key strategies that have contributed to their success, emphasizing the significance of delegation, consistency, and surrounding oneself with high-performing individuals.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:10] Panelists introduction.
• [09:15] The DNA of a Million-Dollar Biller.
• [23:13] Practices and activities that will level up your team’s performance.
• [35:00] Investing in marketing while growing your business.
• [43:10] Andrea’s advice on how to increase your billings over time.
• [49:06] Why do you do what you do? - the WHYs of top billers.
• [55:30] Best practices on business development.

The DNA of a Million-Dollar Biller

Our panelists are Pinnacle Society members because they are industry leaders. Each of them was invited to this podcast and they did not fail to share their thought processes that made them million-dollar billers. In the webinar, they discussed crucial success factors that many aspiring recruiters and owners of recruitment businesses can glean valuable insights from. I asked them this question: What are two or three specific things you would attribute your success to that enable you to consistently produce at that level?

Matt shared key elements: the power of delegation and strategies in growing his team. He invested in his marketing and hired marketing persons early on in the growth of his boutique firm. The other thing is he was able to set up his business so that the billers are only focused on the things that are revenue generating while a lot of the administration - the sourcing, and the scheduling of interviews is done for them.

Joe also revealed what makes him and his team great: accountability, resilience, the right mindset, and always looking for ways to improve. He told the story of how they were humbled in 2020 and why it is important to keep on going. Joe believes that leveraging technology can be a game-changer in maximizing productivity and revenue. He also shared the tech stack they are using in their business process.

Annie on the other hand, revealed that knowing when to say no is critical to business success. “Saying no to opportunities and walking away from searches when you know that they're impossible to fill or the client is just being unreasonable in terms of what they're looking for, or if they're just searches where you're up against multiple agencies.” She then shared innovative approaches to creative fee structures to give more options to their clients. Overall, you will find that their solution-oriented mindset is what makes them successful.

Business Development Best Practices

In this webinar, a lot of viewers were throwing questions related to business development and what specific tactics each of the panelists was using. It does make sense to ask that question, after all, business development strategies contribute greatly to client engagement and revenue. Our panelists generously shared what they do.

For Annie, old-school MPC (most placeable candidate) marketing has been a reliable strategy. On top of cold calls and emails, they embed video instructions for the candidates. What differentiates them is how they present their MPCs to the market. This is how Annie puts it, “Basically, in the industry that I'm in, there are new fund launches and funds that are raising assets and just, you know, mindfully tracking them, knowing that they may have new headcount due to new assets under management. “

Matt elaborated on their “three-bucket” strategy: using inbound leads, MPC marketing, and leveraging references. On the references part, Matt said something that I am sure will resonate with most recruiters and business owners: “I feel like recruiters so often like, oh, I don't want to do references and that's just such a time waste and they should be doing the references. But there is so much gold there. I mean, think about it. You are talking to the person who reports to the person you're trying to place like it's gold. Were they good, or were they better? Who else do you know? And then so references and BD through recruiting are the ones in the middle for the now, it's so cool and that's one of the strategies we're using I love it Fantastic BD through recruiting.”

Joe then shares their “two-purpose approach.” To summarize, Joe defines it this way: “The two-purpose approach is when you are reaching out to a candidate to recruit them for a job, but they also hire candidates that you might be able to place, and so we might say, Mark, I'm reaching out to you for two reasons.”

Which of these three do you think would work best for your recruitment business?

Why Do You Do What You Do? - the WHYs of top billers.

Understanding the WHY behind the success of our guests is important because it provides valuable insights into the principles, motivations, and strategies that contribute to their achievements. So I wanted to know why they do what they do.

For Matt, it is about impacting people’s lives. “When you talk about it, in changing lives which we're doing for me, it's not just changing a candidate's life by getting them a new job, or changing a client's life by getting them an amazing executive team so now they can focus on their kids. It's also our internal employees. We've had folks that they're running their firm.”

For Annie, it is her passion to love what she does. “I feel like just having a passion for being an executive recruitment and the matchmaking that we do has always been something I'm so grateful that I found very early on in my career. I am very good at what I do. I love being able to go to work every day knowing that I am doing something that I'm very skilled at, as well as impacting the people around me.”

I also admire Joe’s answer to the question: “I think I've learned to be grateful for this business and for everything that I've been blessed with... For me, it goes into the parable of the talent. We've all been given a set of talents and I believe that we're called to maximize those talents for good. “

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Andrea (Annie) Colabella Bio and Contact Info

Annie is a Johns Hopkins alumnus with bachelor’s and master’s degrees. She has been recruiting since 2005, initially across all industries, and over the past decade with a focus on the investment management space. Her excellence in the industry is highlighted through her admittance into The Pinnacle Society, an influential group of industry-leading recruiters. She started her firebrand agency, Cardea Group, in 2009 focused on assisting private equity firms, hedge funds, venture capital funds, family offices, and traditional asset managers in staffing their non-investment functions. Andrea is also an active board member of several not-for-profits.

• Annie on LinkedIn
• The Cardea Group website link

Joe Rice Bio and Contact Info

Joe is a Managing Partner and Founder of Joseph David International (JDI), twice recognized by Forbes as one of the best executive recruiting firms in America. He is also a partner in MogulRecruiter, a technology platform that provides recruiting, booking, and talent solutions for service leaders. His recruiting career started in 2005 with Snelling Hospitality with a specialty in executive search, consulting, talent acquisition, and organizational leadership.

• Joe on LinkedIn
• Joseph David International (JDI) website link

Matt Walsh Bio and Contact Info

Matt Walsh is the CEO, and Founder of Blue Signal, a multimillion-dollar, award-winning, Phoenix-based Recruitment Agency specializing in IT, IoT, Telecom, Wireless, Supply Chain, Food Production, Manufacturing, Healthcare, Accounting and finance, HR, and Emerging Tech.

Matt has over 15 years of experience in recruitment. Matt was born and raised in a small farm community in Illinois. He received his bachelor’s degree from Illinois State University and landed a job at Management Recruiters International in Chicago. At MRI, he won several awards. Matt left MRI in 2010 to consult and started Blue Signal in 2012.

• Matt on LinkedIn
• Blue Signal website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Danny Cahill on LinkedIn
• Allan Fisher on LinkedIn
• Pinnacle Society
• We-Connect
• Interseller
• SourceWhale

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#76 Recruitment Marketing: How to Amplify Your Sales with Effective Marketing, with Matt Walsh
• TRR#65 How to Build (or Rebuild) Your Recruitment Firm to 7-Figures From Scratch, with Joe Rice
• TRR#167 3 Simple Steps to Increase Your Billings from 6 to 7-Figures, with Andrea Colabella
• TRR#166 How to Bill $1,000,000 For Ten Years Straight and Grow a Successful Team, with Allan Fisher

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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This episode celebrates the 200th episode of the Resilient Recruits Podcast with special guest, founder of Recruitment Coach, Mark Whitby.

Mark is the founder of Recruitment Coach and one of the world's leading coaches for the global recruitment industry. Since 2001, he has trained over 10,000 recruiters in 34 countries. He's helped countless recruiters double or triple their billings in just 6-12 months, and business owners grow their companies 10x.

Mark shares his journey into recruitment, starting with a failed business venture that led him to discover his passion for sales. He then talks about his first job in recruitment and the hunger and drive that propelled him to success. Mark also reflects on the past four years of the podcast and the valuable insights he has gained from interviewing over 100 successful recruitment professionals.

Having worked closely with hundreds of recruiting, staffing, and search firms, Mark has unique insight into how the top-producing recruiters and fastest-growing companies operate.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:20] What led Mark to pursue a career in recruitment?
• [06:20] How hiring a professional coach impacted Mark’s performance.
• [14:01] The value of training when scaling your recruitment business - hear training solutions for growing teams.
• [17:44] Mark transitioned from a recruiter to a recruitment coach.
• [19:41] What has changed in the recruitment industry in the 22 years Mark has been coaching?
• [25:24] Key challenges and lessons that Mark experienced over the years.
• [38:17] Celebrating 200 episodes - What motivated Mark to start the Resilient Recruiter podcast?
• [44:47] What is Mark most proud of in his entrepreneurial career?

Hiring a Professional Coach Became a Game Changer

Mark told the story of how he started his own business at the young age of 19. Without any prior experience, it ended up failing but it also led him to discover his love for sales which eventually directed him to become a recruiter.

His experience in his first recruitment job made him realize a critical challenge in the recruitment industry at that time: “So the first company I joined there was no training. It was like, or very little. There was a little bit of shadowing of people and like, but pretty much you just like you're in the bullpen and you had to sink or swim and just figure it out by looking at what other people were doing and copying them. But unfortunately, a lot of the people around me weren't very good or didn't know what they were doing either.”

Mark was then headhunted to join a larger recruitment firm of around 200 recruiters. Even though Mark was meeting his target and was in the middle of the leaderboard, he felt that he could still do way more. Mark hired a brilliant coach and this was a game-changer for Mark.

“He helped me double my billings in about 90 days and my manager was like what the heck is going on? So that was such a transformative experience that it kind of planted the seed later for me to decide to become a coach myself.”

Mark's dual role as a recruiter and coachee laid the groundwork for discovering the secret sauce for aiding recruiters and business owners. For those venturing into recruitment business ownership, Mark's narrative is valuable in recognizing the pivotal role of training and coaching in the growth and scaling of your business.

Reflections on the Evolving Landscape of the Recruitment Industry Across Mark’s 22-Year Coaching Tenure

Mark also shared how the landscape of recruitment has changed over the last couple of decades that he has been recruiting. He remembers the day their key focus was cold calling, networking, and getting referrals. He also recalled his learnings when he lost 80% of his revenue overnight during the 2008-09 recession.

Mark emphasized how embracing digital marketing became a pivotal move, leading to increased success post-recession. This also transitioned his key focus areas for training. As Mark said, “Originally when I was training people, it was how to self-retain, search, how to do business development, how to negotiate, you know how to close offers, all that kind of stuff right. And suddenly people could see what I was doing with marketing, with branding, with email marketing, and they're like, hey, could you help us to do that, because that looks like the way forward, right?”

This recollection underscores the importance of adapting to changing circumstances and highlights the importance of continuous learning and development.

Key Challenges and Lessons Learned

Mark also discussed the key challenges and lessons he had to go through over the years. He outlined several critical topics that resonate well with a lot of the listeners. Here are some takeaways:

1. The value of seeking mentors and role models.
2. The importance of digital marketing for solo recruiters and entrepreneurs.
3. Realizing that you cannot do everything by yourself - hire a team of virtual assistants.
4. Overcome the fear of hiring a full-time employee or partner to complement.
5. Appreciating the concept of “One plus one equals three.”

Mark then recalled how he started this podcast four years ago. Leanne and Mark discussed how this has impacted their clients and other recruiters who have ventured out to start their recruitment firms.

What are Mark’s proudest coaching moments throughout the years? “So what I'm most proud of is the results that our clients obtain. It's kind of comparable to, for our listeners, when you make a placement and you really have that impact and you change someone's life for the better both the candidate, of course, in a better opportunity, but then the client company also benefits from that talent that you've brought to them.

So the equivalent for us is when we're working with a client and they achieve incredible results whether it's shifting to retained search, whether it's launching a podcast, whether it's hiring a virtual assistant, and then that being such a life-changing thing, game-changing, to free up all that time and be able to accelerate your billing. So I live for those success stories. When, at the beginning of every coaching call, we start out with wins and everyone needs to share a win, something they've made progress on, something they've achieved since we last saw them. That's my favorite part of the week is hearing those wins from our members.”

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

View Details

In this episode, we delve into the intricacies of managing a remote team, a topic significantly relevant in today’s era where flexibility and adaptability are critical to success.

We are joined by Sam Brenner, owner of CRB Workforce, which is 100% remote. Sam and I discussed his strategies and actionable insights on how they build their high-performing culture in a remote setup. From leadership styles and collaborative check-ins to leveraging tech stack, you will hear Sam’s action points to thriving in the world of remote team management.

Guided by his motto, "The harder you work, the luckier you get," Sam is living proof of how determination and ambition lead to incredible outcomes.

Sam launched his recruitment agency in 2018 from his apartment. Since then the business has grown rapidly to a team of 16 recruiting technology and marketing people across multiple sectors.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:03] From Commercial Real Estate to Recruiting.
• [07:49] Sam shares his fears and challenges of launching his recruitment firm in 2018.
• [16:22] How to create strong relationships with long-term contractors and consultants.
• [22:51] Staying resilient in dealing with multiple setbacks.
• [27:13] Building a sustainable culture in a remote working environment.
• [38:46] Investing in systems and processes to enhance collaboration in a remote setup.
• [42:30] Sam reveals their daily practices and activities to keep everyone engaged remotely.
• [51:25] Discussion on core values and how they translate to performance and culture.
• [57:40] Navigating the 2023 recruitment market.

Building Team Culture Remotely Through Collaboration Systems and Practices

A common ground between me and Sam is that our businesses are operating 100% remotely. Managing a remote team can be challenging for some recruitment business owners, especially on the collaboration part. So Sam and I discussed their best practices on how they keep their team together, the systems they use, and the practices they do, in order to work collaboratively in a 100% remote setup.

• Leadership - Sam shared his leadership style that contributes to their culture and way of working. He emphasized the value of transparency - with him being an “open book.” He also elaborated on trust and the philosophy of “pushing your way in, don’t wait to be pulled in.”

• Collaborative Check-ins - Sam discussed their concept of Zoom check-ins for collaborative tasks and highlighted the value of investing in systems that promote communication and collaboration. We also talked about the importance of having clear agendas and keeping virtual meetings focused. Sam also shared their “Wednesday Walk Day” which well resonated with our team.

• Systems - Sam shared online platforms and applications that they use to collaborate such as Miro, Bullhorn, and Nectar.

Core Values That Translate to a Culture of Performance

Core values contribute to your recruitment firm's success as they cover your team’s culture and well-being, which translate to overall performance. With his team working 100% remotely, Sam believes that their core values play an important role in keeping their team together despite working in different time zones. He shared their organization’s core values:

• The Power of Attitude - “You know, just be in control and set your attitude, because it's one of the only things you can control.”

• Feedback - “Feedback is like a huge pillar for us, and so it's feedback, and it's giving effective feedback, taking feedback. So it's a two-way street, and that's one of the things that I lead with. I'm giving people feedback and I'm always asking for feedback, and so if someone sees something they don't like, they don't wallow in it.”

• Pressure - “I want people to face the pressure. I want people to run towards their legacy, like, not away from it. “

As a recruitment business owner, having values aligned with your vision and mission statement can strengthen your team’s bond and guide your organization’s decision-making.

Resilience in Launching His Business and Navigating the Future of Recruitment

Sam and I also zoomed in on the challenges and struggles he had to overcome when launching his own business. He shared his transition from commercial real estate to recruitment, and how his strong sales background became a foundation for his success in recruiting. When he launched CRB in 2018, he had to endure a roller coaster of emotions and had to overcome his fear of failure. He also had to deal with a lawsuit that lasted for two and a half years. If you are a recruiter aspiring to build your own recruitment practice, you will be inspired by Sam’s early struggles as this led to his current success.

We also talked about the 2023 market and how they are navigating this erratic recruitment market. We agreed that the most effective way to deal with it is to put ourselves in the best possible position to capture opportunities that will always be there. The only way to do that is just to keep doing the right things, day in and day out.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Sam Brenner Bio and Contact Info

Guided by his motto, "The harder you work, the luckier you get," Sam Brenner is living proof of how determination and ambition lead to incredible outcomes. His business journey started back in 2018 as a humble operation in his apartment. Now, the Founder and CEO of CRB Workforce, a rapidly growing recruitment agency, he’s turned his company into a force to be reckoned with, spanning the US and beyond. From startups to industry giants, CRB has served so many incredible businesses.

Sam has achieved remarkable success and earned a prominent —and well-deserved—place in the business world. With over 20 years of experience and a passion for creating opportunities to better other people’s lives.

• Sam on LinkedIn
• CRB website link
• CRB on LinkedIn

People and Resources Mentioned

• Miro Board - Collaboration Tool
• Bullhorn
• Nectar
• Simon La Fosse on LinkedIn

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#116 How Treating People Well Delivers 30% Annual Revenue Growth for 15 Years, with Simon La Fosse
• TRR#47 How to Define Your Recruitment Company’s Culture, with Bretton Putter

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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The past couple of years have shown an astonishing development in generative AI. Artificial Intelligence emerges as a transformative force, reshaping the landscape of recruiting by introducing unprecedented efficiencies, data-driven insights, and innovative solutions that promise to revolutionize the way organizations discover, engage, and hire top talent.

In this episode, we are in for a treat as one of the leading voices in AI and Data Science joins us to share unique perspectives and insights into the transformative effects of artificial intelligence on talent acquisition. Jon Krohn is a leading figure in the realm of artificial intelligence and machine learning. He’s the Co-Founder and Chief Data Scientist at Nebula.io, an intelligent Talent Acquisition platform.

He authored the book Deep Learning Illustrated, an instant #1 bestseller that was translated into seven languages.

He is also the host of SuperDataScience, the data science industry’s most listened-to podcast.

Jon is renowned for his compelling lectures, which he offers at leading universities and conferences, as well as via his award-winning YouTube channel. He holds a PhD from Oxford and has been publishing on machine learning in prominent academic journals since 2010.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:11] Jon’s fascinating career milestones - from high-frequency trading and yoga to data science.
• [08:37] What led Jon into the world of talent acquisition?
• [17:10] Effectively applying generative AI into talent acquisition.
• [24:58] Generative AI’s other potential applications in automating the recruitment industry.
• [35:04] How close are we to getting generative AI to do excellent writing?
• [44:00] What makes Nebula’s methodology stand out from other AI platforms?
• [52:16] What will the next 3 - 5 years look like in terms of Generative AI applications to recruitment?
• [1:02:04] How AI platforms can elevate the human experience?

Artificial Intelligence in Talent Acquisition

Jon shared his journey transitioning from high-frequency trader to yoga instructor to data scientist and co-founder of AI-driven talent acquisition platform Nebula.io.

He shared how this amazing platform leverages generative AI to help recruitment companies identify the best candidates in the least amount of time, which helps them to focus more on human connection in their workflow. This is how he explains it, “With nebula.io, you can type in ‘find me a data scientist in New York who specializes in machine learning,’ and we will take that small amount of natural language that you provided. We will apply the kinds of filters to the search automatically. So we'll apply a 50-mile radius around New York and we will generate some key information based on the small amount of information you provided.”

It doesn’t stop there because the results will be already curated based on each individual’s publicly available data to display ranking, potential compensation, and diversity. Their platform can also generate messages with information about the role, information about the candidate, and potentially information about the recruitment firm.

Jon explains that in the end, “You are making the final decision on whether a candidate is appropriate or not, but we're making the sourcing and messaging of candidates, the understanding of your searches and your candidates, as well as the engagement with your candidates, as simple and automated as possible so that you can focus, so the recruiters can focus on building relationships as opposed to just, you know, trying to find people and type out the messages.”

This is indeed phenomenal! Imagine what the future of recruitment will look like not only for recruiters but also for clients and candidates. In the long run, this can only enhance the end-to-end recruitment process experience across all stakeholders.

Artificial Intelligence in Recruitment Automation

Jon also described other ways Generative AI can impact the recruiter’s side of doing things. He mentioned several platforms that can automate interview scheduling and enhance the way recruiters can search their own databases. He mentioned how their semantic search feature can generate 10x more candidates than other platforms utilizing boolean search. He also mentioned a patented technology enabling candidate matching without incorporating historical biases against underrepresented groups. Of course, Jon and I discussed how close we are to having generative AI do very good writing.

Advancements in AI and Future Possibilities

How will AI impact the recruitment industry in the next three to five years?

Here is Jon’s response, “realistically, especially on the shorter timescales like three, five years, there isn't really any chance of recruitment being fully automated, and so what's going to happen is companies like Nebula and, of course, incumbents like LinkedIn are going to incorporate more and more automation, particularly generative AI, to automate the parts of your job. That can be so that things like sourcing candidates and stacking them in the right order drafting the initial message to them and drafting responses these things in three years I hope that most of your listeners are experiencing that kind of automation from platforms like Nebula in three years from now.”

Should recruiters worry that AI will take away most jobs in the industry? Highly unlikely. On the contrary, candidates and clients alike will always want human interaction. As Jon said, “Humans looking for a purpose in their work prefer to be speaking to a real human that they can meet with and get human advice from and context from.”

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Jon Krohn Bio and Contact Info

Dr. Jon Krohn is the Chief Data Scientist at Nebula, author of the bestselling book Deep Learning Illustrated, and host of the SuperDataScience podcast. Jon is renowned for his compelling lectures, which he offers in-person at Columbia University, New York University, and leading industry conferences.

• Jon on LinkedIn
• Jon’s website link
• Jon’s podcast, Super Data Science website link
• Nebula IO website link
• Jon on YouTube
• Deep Learning Illustrated book by Jon Krohn

People and Resources Mentioned

• Ed Donner on LinkedIn
• Steven Talbot on LinkedIn
• Flash Boys: A Wall Street Revolt Book by Michael Lewis
• Omnicon
• Github

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#52 The End of Jobs: Recruiting in the Age of Artificial Intelligence, with Jeff Wald

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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Building a thriving recruitment business in the middle of a global pandemic may be unimaginable to most people, but not for Kyle Winterbottom.

Kyle’s strategy is clear and straightforward: give value, give value, give value! In this episode, Kyle uncovers the story of his journey into the recruitment industry and how the global crisis turned into a pathway of opportunity.

Kyle is the Founder & CEO of Orbition Group, an award-winning talent solutions business. Based in Manchester, they focus exclusively on scaling Data, Analytics, and artificial intelligence teams across the UK, Europe, and the USA.

Kyle is also the Founder/Host of the Driven by Data Community which is comprised of three components; The Roundtable, The Podcast, and The Mentorship. Kyle elaborated on his three proven long-term strategies for boosting engagement and building relationships

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:02] Launching a recruitment business during the height of the pandemic.
• [06:11] Community building and visibility to build brand awareness.
• [10:23] Giving value through podcasting - should you start your own podcast?
• [17:02] Establishing commercial relationships.
• [24:26] How hosting live events can scale your business by demand.
• [34:43] Kyle talks about their Mentorship Programme and why it is the best long-term strategy.
• [41:57] Growing by demand vs. growing by design.
• [46:10] Revisiting business development strategies.

Give Value, Give Value, Give Value.

The pandemic can be perceived by many as not the best time to launch a business, but Kyle looked at it as the best time to kick off Orbition. His strategy is clear and straightforward: leverage content marketing and community building to build brand awareness. Give value first, and build relationships after.

“I guess that the whole premise was very simple. Just create a community of people who will ultimately be potential target customers and buying clients. Let's add a load of value to them and from there that'll create relationships. That then I guess the whole premise really is give value, give value, give value.”

Kyle elaborated on his strategies and you will find that there are three main takeaways:

• Content marketing and adding value to your ecosystem can lead to a snowball effect, where people will want to participate in your engagement activities.
• Prioritizing value adding to your market will generate not only visibility. It will position you as an expert and thought leader which gives you authority.
• It builds the best type of relationship - as your audience appreciates your contributions, you build a relationship that goes beyond the customer-vendor type.

Kyle shared his practices on how they continuously add value: via podcasting, live events, and mentorship programs.

Podcasting and Hosting Events

I was astonished when Kyle shared with me that 100% of their clients are through inbound marketing. I really wanted to pick his brains on their roadmap and the strategies they use.

He shared that podcasting has been a really effective tool in engaging with their target audience. One of the reasons that it is really successful is because it invited guests who they find credible, people of influence and seniority within the marketplace who have something to share. Kyle also reminded the listeners that it can take time to really get engagement and ROI - so it is really important to be patient and consistent.

After the pandemic, Kyle and his team started hosting free live events. These events started to garner more demand than they could facilitate, so they had to find the right balance of content and format in order to scale these events. They get very positive feedback from those who participate in these live events. Kyle and his team are able to bring together Chief Data Officers to share best practices while networking with one another.

Aside from the above engagement components, Kyle also discussed their mentorship program.

Deep Diving Into Their Mentorship Program

“The mentorship program came from a place where I'm continually looking at what is the next thing that we can do for this community that adds value and how can we do something that also strategically aids the direction of the business”

Kyle shared what their mentorship program looks like and how it helps those starting their career in data analytics improve in technical and soft skills. Kyle also revealed that this is not something they are monetizing at the moment. He shared why: “It's more about the brand visibility and having that relationship, because I think for us, in all honesty, what we can earn from you know, charging for a mentorship program will be really insignificant in comparison to what we can earn off having that relationship with those people and obviously, what you know we're again think about the long game. “

This is indeed a wonderful approach to engagement and adding value to the community. If you think about it, the 300+ people joining their mentorship program become their brand ambassadors. Knowing that someday those who were mentored will eventually become decision makers and hiring managers, they will be future clients.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Kyle Winterbottom Bio and Contact Info

Kyle is the founder and CEO of Orbition Group, an award-winning talent solutions business that operates exclusively within the Data and Analytics space across the UK, Europe, and USA. Kyle is also the Founder/Host of the Driven by Data Community which is composed of three components: Driven by Data: The Roundtable, Driven by Data: The Podcast, and Driven by Data: The Mentorship.

Kyle is also featured in the Data IQ 100 Most Influential People in Data for 2022 and 2023.

• Kyle on LinkedIn
• Orbition Group website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Alex Cooke on LinkedIn

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#195 Recruitment Rhythms: How Human Connection Elevates You Above the Competition, with Alex Cooke

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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Ever find yourself hitting a brick wall when it comes to developing engaging content? Don't despair!

Recently, I was invited as a guest speaker on the Retained Recruiter Show, which is a weekly LinkedIn live hosted by our good friends at i-Intro. The topic was How to Get More Clients with Content Marketing. i-Intro told me that this was one of the most popular live streams that they'd ever produced, and they've given me permission to share the recording with you on this podcast.

You will hear me discuss with James O’Brien and Jo Gregory strategies to effectively and consistently post original content and how it will attract your target audience. You will know how content marketing can position you as a trusted authority instead of being just a vendor.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:52] How content marketing transformed many recruitment businesses.
• [06:05] Mark shares the easiest way to get started with content marketing.
• [10:00] Authenticity is the key - leveraging AI platforms while keeping it original.
• [15:11] How much time do you need to put aside for content marketing?
• [18:30] How long would you give it to see engagement results?
• [23:26] The powerful returns of consistently posting content and sharing to your community.
• [30:27] How to measure and track your ROI from content marketing?

What is Content Marketing?

As a recruiter, content marketing is critical to continuously engage with your audience and remain relevant to clients and candidates. So what is content marketing? Content marketing is a marketing strategy that involves creating and distributing valuable, relevant content to your target audience on a consistent basis. It might be education-based marketing. In essence, you're providing market insight and thought leadership that will benefit your clients and your candidates.

An example is the consistent posting of original content on LinkedIn. This is the easiest way for people to get started with content marketing. There are three reasons:

1. This is a tool available for everybody, whether you are a small boutique search firm or an individual recruiter.
2. There is guaranteed measurable ROI.
3. It is fun! You get positive feedback and engagement from your network and can spark conversations with people you are already connected.

From personal experience, I can tell you that content marketing can transform your business. Aside from building you an audience, consistent content original, and authentic content can build trust for you as an expert in your niche and a credible advisor.

Time and Results in Content Marketing

How much time do you need to put aside for content marketing? It really depends on how frequently you are going to post. The important step you take is to commit to a schedule. It is important to be consistent, so consider a schedule that you can sustain. If for example, you will post 3x a week or 12x a month: spending 20 minutes per post will only require you an hour a week to write or create that content.

How long would you need to take to see engagement results? This can be a tricky question. Content marketing is like going to the gym. You may not see immediate results, but for sure, you will get results! The important thing is consistency. Just like how you would approach any business development and marketing activity - you may not get immediate results but you will definitely get results! But by showing up consistently, you are giving yourself the opportunity to be in that right place at the right time and, more importantly, you're creating what we call top-of-mind awareness or TOMA.

Methods for Content Creation and Engagement

What is the best content to create engagement? Should you use videos, images, audio, or just text-only posts? There are pros and cons to all those things, and ideally, you will want to do a variety of them all.

You just have to go out there and do it. No need to complicate things. You can record a video on your smartphone while with a client or your team. You may post images of the industry conference you are attending for your audience to recognize you as a person of authority in your field.

How about leveraging AI like ChatGPT to create content? You can leverage generative AI and many other tools. But the key is to keep it authentic, original, and relatable to yourself.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

People and Resources Mentioned

• James O’Brien on LinkedIn
• Jo Gregory on LinkedIn
• Rich Rosen on LinkedIn
• ChatGPT
• Claude AI

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

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What are the three success factors that would help a musician become a million-dollar biller recruitment business owner?

Our special guest, Alex Cooke, shares the journey of his recruitment career from a musician background. You'll get to hear the fascinating parallels he draws between music and recruitment, emphasizing the significance of three success factors:

• How Human Connection Elevates You Above the Competition
• How Your Ability to Write Changes Everything
• How Your Market Insight Can Be Used to Build Trust

Alex is a former professional musician who entered the world of recruitment at age 29.

After 18 months with an agency in the UK, he transitioned to NYC and started on a journey that in 3.5 years would see him become a million-dollar/year biller as a biotech recruitment specialist.

Alex is now the CEO of Phase 3 Search, a biotech search firm he founded in 2018. In the last 5 years, he’s retained 95% of his clients and generated $6.5m in sales.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• 01:14 How Alex got into recruiting from a musician background.
• 06:10 Alex’s intentional approach to building connections with people.
• 12:15 How Alex progressed into the Bio-Tech niche.
• 21:55 Discussion on the effective sales approach.
• 34:52 Getting an in-depth understanding of your market - discussion on best practices.
• 39:45 Why writing is important for recruitment business owners and how Alex enhanced his writing and storytelling.
• 50:44 Understanding your clients to build relationships.
• 55:30 Difference between the different levels of searches.

How Human Connection Elevates You Above the Competition

As a musician, Alex believes that creating music is about connecting with the listeners. He sees this as a parallel to recruitment, where human connection can elevate you above the competition. We discussed the importance of networking with people in order to be successful in any career, and how to build connections with people intentionally.

He started with the value of listening to someone’s story. Doing so not only helps you build a meaningful connection, but also puts you in a position where you can assess if they can be good candidates, clients, or business partners. “I think the most interesting thing about anybody you meet is their story, right? So actually being fascinated by someone's journey. And if you take a step back and put your recruitment hats on, what I spend much of my time doing is thinking about is this person a good leader. What characteristics do they bring to the table?”

Adaptability was also emphasized. He talked about how an introvert can connect with an extrovert and vice-versa. We also talked about the style of writing and communication, on how it should be adapted geographically. We also covered their candidate-centric and relationship-driven sales approach.

Minding these little things helps Alex and his team to intentionally create human connections and build relationships.

How Your Ability to Write Changes Everything

Writing skills can help recruiters in a lot of ways, some of which are engaging with candidates, making personalized outreaches, and getting better responses in email campaigns. Alex understands that improving his writing can be a game-changer. Alex was aware that writing was not one of his strengths, so he took proactive steps to level up his game.

“Okay, so you know me and writing. I didn't think I could write even. Even through university. I really struggled to write essays. The whole thing was just a bit of a nightmare, to be honest with you, and there was this point in my career. I'm ultimately going into recruitment and realizing that the very first step of any recruitment process is typically a message sent out.”

The very first step he took was getting a really good book on grammar (reference link below). For Alex, this is critical because “there's nothing worse than receiving a message and it's talking about something deadly serious and sensible and how it's going to advance your life with the spelling mistake or a silly grammatical error in it.”

Alex shared his best practices such as asking people what frustrates them about their job and applying it to his outreach, changing their style to elicit a response from different types of people, and how to use bullet points and paragraphs to make it easier for people to read and respond.

How Your Market Insight Can Be Used to Build Trust

Alex also shared their best practices when it comes to understanding their clients and markets. Some of the key topics on this subject that we covered are:

• The importance of tracking leads and maintaining diligence when following up with clients
• How to develop an ideal client profile
• How to conduct avatar interviews to better understand your target audience
• How to effectively negotiate contracts and create successful partnerships with decision-makers and leaders
• Understanding the needs of potential partners and adopting a candidate-centric approach to build a successful pipeline

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Alex Cooke Bio and Contact Info

Alex is a former professional musician who entered the world of recruitment at age 29. After 18 months with an agency in the UK, he transitioned to NYC and started on a journey that in 3.5 years would see him become a biotech specialist, a million-dollar / year biller, and the owner of a multi-million dollar biotech search firm.

• Alex on LinkedIn
• Phase 3 Search website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

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“Everything is cyclical.”

Recruiters and recruitment business owners who have been in the industry for many years understand that no matter how bad the hiring market is, things will get better. This is exactly the approach and mindset of Nick Cabral, our special guest, that enabled them to navigate the 2008-09 recession successfully.

Nick is the Principal of Boston Investment Staffing Group. He specializes in permanent and contract placements within the investment and financial services industry. They focus on working with boutique investment managers and becoming an integral partner in their hiring process.

He has carved out a successful entrepreneurial path, starting his business amidst the challenges of 2009, and weathering the storm of the 2008 recession. Nick’s tales of waiting for the first deal and his survival strategies are packed with priceless insights and advice that a lot of recruitment business owners will find valuable today.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:03] How Nick got into the recruiting industry.
• [07:27] Nick’s significant learnings when working with Boston Networking Group.
• [11:39] What prompted Nick to launch Boston Investment Staffing Group in 2009?
• [14:31] Navigating the uncertainties of the 2008-09 recession.
• [19:11] Nick shares his candidate-centric approach to recruiting and how it led to relationship building.
• [25:43] Discussion on the respect component in a recruitment process.
• [29:17] The art of building professional relationships in a post-pandemic environment.
• [37:36] Understanding and applying the rule of ten.
• [42:58] The significance of asking the right questions to candidates.

Navigating the Uncertainties of the 2008-09 Recession

Being in the industry for more than two decades, Nick has built an outstanding career as a recruiter and a recruitment business owner. In our conversation, he was more than generous and shared the significant learnings he had when he worked with his previous employer. He also gave context on what prompted him to launch his own recruitment firm, during the 2008-09 recession.

His experience resonates well with me as Nick and I had the same experience during those unfavorable market conditions. I admire his mindset and resilience. He believes that everything is cyclical, and eventually, things will start to pick up again. He also emphasized, “So I think my mindset was keep doing the work, keep making sure that you are contacting clients and candidates and staying on their radar. You're not going anywhere. This is what you're going to do, and I think because of that kind of never-equipped mentality. It led to all right, 2010 got better, and then 11 was even better, and then 12 was a banner year, and so it was hard but manageable. I think you just got to kind of stay grounded in the fact that if you do the work, it will get where you want it to go.”

I know that 2023 is not like the 2008-09 recession, but it appears to be a weird year for some markets. If you are experiencing a slowdown in the industry you are supporting, Nick’s advice of just staying in the course, keeping doing the work, and focusing on what you can control can help. Remember that this is cyclical.

Building Relationships and Asking Reflective Questions

Nick and I also discussed critical topics on relationship-building which includes the value of meeting in person as well as asking the right questions to your clients and candidates. He also emphasized the importance of the ‘respect component’ in the recruitment process. He shared these three factors that contribute greatly to his success, and it was an astonishing discussion because, in the end, you will find that these are interrelated to one another.

• The importance of meeting in person. He shared how he does virtual preps and trying to get back in person for face-to-face meetings. He shares how he has been able to build relationships further due to the emphasis on “IRL meetings” which is much different than just a quick phone call.

• The respect component goes both ways. Nick elaborated on how he believes respect helps him build a long-term client and candidate base. He specifically mentioned how giving constructive feedback and transparency to candidates is a critical act of respect.

• Asking the right questions. “Do you want this job?” is an effective question that can be a game changer when building candidate relationships. Nick is not just focused on making placement, instead, he assures all candidates that he wants the best for them by focusing on their long-term growth.

Applying the Rule of Ten

Nick also shared his 'rule of 10' which helps him to stay on track with his goals and activities. Basically, the premise is that in every ten pieces of activity, you will have one placement. This is how he described it: “In the rule of ten, if you have ten pieces of activity, it's going to lead to one placement, right, so that could be a candidate, so say it's your candidate and your client will count that as two, right, but if you have ten pieces of activity, odds are you're going to, you're going to have one placement and you could get lucky and hit three or four, you could be unlucky and you don't hit any. And where it really gets exciting is if you have, say, when you get up to 20 or 25 pieces of activity all at once.”

He uses this goal-oriented way of thinking when training junior recruiters and so far it has been effective in motivating their team to stay on track with activities.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Nick Cabral Bio and Contact Info

Nick started his recruiting career in 2003 and has significant experience working with permanent and contract financial services professionals. Nick has worked with many large financial institutions and small boutique investment managers and has become an integral part of their hiring process. Nick graduated from Bentley University with a degree in Finance and a minor in Philosophy.

• Nick on LinkedIn
• Boston Investment Staffing Group website link

Non-Profit Organizations that Nick supports:

• Dana-Farber Cancer Institute website link
• American Cancer Society website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Andrea Collabella on LinkedIn
• Abigail Stevens on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#167 3 Simple Steps to Increase Your Billings from 6 to 7-Figures, with Andrea Colabella
• TRR#104 International Recruitment: Hard Won Insights From Placing People Around the World for 25 Years, with Abigail Stevens

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

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When a life-changing event like the birth of a child happens, it often forces us to re-evaluate our careers and lives. That's exactly what happened to my special guest, Enric Miquel, the founder of Pharma New Talent, a life sciences recruitment firm.

After becoming a father, Enric embarked on a new journey from pharmaceuticals to recruitment, and in this episode, he shares the highs and lows of starting his own recruitment firm. We also delve deep into the world of international recruitment as Enric shares his experiences with hiring a virtual assistant. He discusses the pros and cons of such a move and offers insightful advice for recruiters considering the same path.

Finally, we explore the hard-earned wisdom Enric has gained from his journey. From building confidence as an established leader in the recruitment industry to dealing with the challenges of raising his fees, Enric's story will show you the value of resilience and dedication.

Prior to launching his recruitment company, he was an International Brand Manager in charge of the Middle East and Asia Regions, having launched medical products in 8 different countries. Growing with the company from 500K € in 2014 to 10 million in 2021 I’ve worked with Enric, as a member of our coaching program and he is a massive action taker who has implemented many of the strategies we teach.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:52] Inspiration to start a recruitment firm.
• [10:40] How Enric propelled business growth through investment in training and self-improvement.
• [13:49] Forgoing consultancy safety net and transitioning to 100% recruiting.
• [16:45] Recruiting internationally and embracing new markets.
• [26:16] Hiring a VA for sourcing and recruitment.
• [30:34] Challenges and rewards of pivoting from contingent to retained recruiting.
• [36:00] Why Enric started a podcast and how it contributes to his business.
• [42:02] Overcoming impostor syndrome is the biggest challenge.
• [48:25] Discussion on tracking metrics and KPIs.

Inspiration to Starting and Growing a Recruitment Firm

Enric had no recruitment background when he decided to transition into recruitment. What prompted him to jump out of his comfort zone was when his daughter was born which made him rethink his priorities.

“One of the most important to think about when starting the business was the date of giving birth, or my partner giving birth to my daughter Olivia was to me a way to rethink priorities. What did I want it to do in life? Especially, this came after COVID. Also, this was a period of long reflections on what would I want it to do next. But you are right, I didn't have any recruitment agency background. I haven't been a recruiter on my own. I was a product manager.”

There were at least three key factors that propelled Enric to his success:

1. He can spot opportunities and connect the dots. Enric shared how he was able to close out big placements through his network.

2. He invests heavily in coaching and training. Enric approached me back when he was just starting his recruitment firm. “I need to train my skills 100% to keep growing the business, and also not only when you are a startup. It's tough, but especially if you're a solo recruiter, you need to be part of a wider community, you need to be part of the crowd, and joining the Inner Circle group gave me that. So, even though it was a big investment because if you look at the percentage of investment in my year plan and the part of the revenue that was taken from my investment in training was very big and very representative it turned out to be the best decision I could make because I more than doubled my revenue in the next year.”

3. He is a strong implementor. Enric is a role model in implementation. He can implement critical elements in our coaching group which has contributed to success. The implementations include hiring a VA, creating value-adding content via LinkedIn and other platforms, marketing through podcasts, and pivoting from contingency to retained.

Business Development Implementations

Enric and I covered topics on implementations that would resonate with a lot of recruitment business owners. Given that he has no recruitment background, Enric sees things from a fresh perspective. He is aware that for his recruitment startup to succeed, he must compensate for the lack of experience by working hard and smart. Some of the key takeaways we covered are:

1. The importance of hiring a VA: he shared how hiring someone from Venezuela greatly helps in his North American expansion.

2. Creating value-adding content and running a podcast: Enric said, “I had this first experience in 2019 with podcasting. So I thought it was a great idea to build networking, and then you put the idea into my mind to start with that. So to me, podcasting is a way to build a network among candidates and clients.”

3. Transitioning from contingent to retained: Enric lost some clients when he had to transition to retained search. However, he believes that this is one of the best decisions he made as it brings him more joy and is best for the business in the long run.

Enric also shared how he had to let go of the safety net of pharmaceutical consulting so he could focus all his energy on recruiting to make it work. Enric believes that mindset and consistent effort led to his success.

Overcoming the Challenge Imposter Syndrome

When we delved into what he considers his biggest challenge, Enric revealed his challenge that a lot of us can relate to.

“I guess I felt kind of the famous imposter syndrome of who are you to become a recruiter overnight and that led to, you know, begin with low fees what I consider now low fees. So overcoming this syndrome, let's say, has been the most challenging... This has been probably the most challenging part that's interesting.”

Enric took proactive steps to build his confidence. He elaborated on his approach to KPIs and metrics and how it gives him confidence by objectively understanding the value that he provides to his clients.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Enric Miquel Bio and Contact Info

Enric Miquel is a highly accomplished professional with a diverse background in the healthcare and business sectors. He holds a Pharmacy Doctorate from the prestigious University of Barcelona, where he honed his expertise in pharmaceuticals and healthcare.

With a passion for global business development, Enric has excelled in his role as an International Brand Manager, overseeing the Middle East and Asia regions. His career highlights include successfully launching medical products in eight different countries. Under his leadership, the company experienced remarkable growth, with revenues skyrocketing from 500,000 € in 2014 to an impressive 10 million € in 2021.

In July 2021, inspired by a profound life change with the birth of his daughter, Olivia, Enric Miquel took a bold step in his entrepreneurial journey. He founded Pharma New Talent, a pioneering Life Science recruitment firm. This endeavor reflects his passion for talent development and his dedication to shaping the future of the pharmaceutical and healthcare industries.

Enric's exceptional career trajectory, marked by academic excellence, international business acumen, and a commitment to talent development, makes him a standout figure in the pharmaceutical and healthcare sectors. His journey continues to inspire and empower those around him, propelling innovation and excellence in every endeavor he undertakes.

• Enric on LinkedIn
• Enric on Twitter
• Enric on Instagram
• Pharma New Talent website link
• New Talent podcast link
• Pharma New Talen on YouTube

People and Resources Mentioned

• Rich Rosen on LinkedIn
• Upwork

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR# Think Like a Big Biller: How to Get Repeat Business and Referrals, with Rich Rosen

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

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Adding management consultancy as a service offering of your recruitment agency can potentially increase your revenue. But the question is, is it easier said than done?

In this episode, you will hear insights from Colin Kleine, co-founder of Scalerr. They’re a growth advisory firm that helps Tech companies reach their revenue goals through Strategy, Execution, and People.

Colin discusses why he made the pivot from Recruiter into Management Consultant, and why recruitment was so fundamental in helping him successfully do it. He shared the challenges, key learnings, and how this transition benefits their business.

I have known Colin since 2014, he’s a former client and I’ve tracked his remarkable rise, especially since he launched Scalerr.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:07] Colin shared how he came across Mark and the learnings he took that transformed his billings.
• [05:34] The highs and lows that led Colin to start Scalerr.
• [11:45] Thriving during the longest COVID lockdown.
• [16:21] From recruitment to management consulting: Colin explains how their advisory services help clients expand internationally to increase their valuation.
• [28:49] Mark emphasizes how understanding the client's objectives rather than just filling roles can add more value.
• [38:14] How having a co-founder who is aligned with Collin’s passion became a game-changer.
• [48:30] Colin shares the biggest challenges that he had to face when building Scalerr.
• [56:13] Key success factors and milestones that led Colin and Scalerr to where they are now.
• [1:00:46] Colin thanks Mark for being a mentor and inspiration throughout his career.

Recruitment Skills and Experience Leading to Management Consulting

How Colin pivoted from being just a recruiter to a management consultant is a story that I find fascinating. Aside from talent acquisition, Scalerr helps startup companies scale up and expand globally and increase their valuation. What propelled this shift? Colin shared three takeaways:

• Understanding their client’s objectives and challenges. Colin and his team are focused on being consultative and understanding their client's journey, stresses, and pain points.

• Learning from experience: having helped more than 150 companies, Colin and his team learned what makes some businesses successful and some businesses fail. They have come up with a playbook that

• Leveraging his recruitment experience, Colin took lessons from the CEOs, VPs, and other key positions he placed. He said, “You learn information that somebody else is prepared to pay hundreds of millions of dollars for. So you start learning what is it that made some companies wildly successful? What is it that successful CEOs did to grow and scale a company and also understand how all of this ties in ultimately into valuation?”

The management consulting arm of their business skyrocketed, leading Colin and his team to start a venture arm.

Challenges and Solutions While Building Scalerr

Just like all business owners, Colin faced a multitude of challenges when building Scalerr. I wanted to hear what his top challenges are and how his team was able to overcome them. He shared one particular challenge that resonates with many recruitment business owners:

“Not enough hours in the day, as many entrepreneurs will do, and make this mistake of trying to do too much of it yourself. And I know there's going to be a lot of people listening to this podcast that know exactly what I'm talking about, not realizing when it's now time to start delegating things out and bringing somebody on board to do that, not knowing when to give up control and relinquish.”

Colin emphasized the importance of systemizing and delegating tasks. Not doing so and becoming overwhelmed with tasks you can delegate will be a constraint to scaling your business.

Creating a Flywheel: Pivotal Factors That Propelled Scalerr to Their Current Achievements

Another topic that stood out to me is how Colin and his team were able to create a flywheel - their consultancy work feeds their recruitment segment and vice versa. Instead of solely relying on placements as a revenue stream, they were able to establish their consultancy to the point that it could be a standalone revenue source. Colin described it this way: “I think there's a lot of mutual value added and then you start speaking to them and introducing yourself and building a relationship, and more and more people know you, and guess what? They end up giving you recruitment work.”

Colin also elaborated on the three pivotal factors that he believes contributed greatly to their current achievements:

• Diversification of where they source their leads.
• Foundational understanding of their clients on a business level.
• Creating their own flywheel and not solely relying on placements as a revenue source.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Colin Kleine Bio and Contact Info

Colin specializes in forging innovative revenue streams through strategic channel partnerships, crafting accelerated GTM and Commercialization strategies, and handpicking high-impact teams with a battle-tested background in startup scaling. His expertise spans customized advisory and recruitment services, enabling swift market validation, deft navigation of the intricate APAC landscape, and securing vital venture capital and government grants. With an impressive portfolio of over 150 victorious startups, Colin's results-driven approach guarantees maximum revenue, valuation growth, and a triumphant expansion into the APAC market. As a dedicated investor and seasoned business advisor, Colin puts his money where his mouth is, committed to your success while leveraging his insider knowledge to drive your business forward.

• Colin on LinkedIn
• Scalerr website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Allan Cutter on LinkedIn
• Leanne Sarah Jones Hunt on LinkedIn
• Traction by Gino Wickman
• The E Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber
• Who Not How by Dan Sullivan

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

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Working 100+ hours a week nearly burned Gregg out. If running your recruitment business is stressing you out, Gregg’s story may be able to help you.

I am pleased to be joined by Gregg Salkovitch. Gregg is intentionally growing his recruitment firm to become a lifestyle business. Along the way, he learned a lot of things to achieve his goal while gaining more lifestyle freedom. You will hear insightful strategies on how Gregg is building his team and delegating tasks. We also discussed why it is critical to hire a COO to help you in scaling your business.

After a career as a top sales performer for 3 consecutive companies, Gregg co-founded a sales recruitment agency to combine the 2 things he loves most in business: sales and helping people. In 6 years, Gregg grew his company organically with no outside funding to 60 employees, reaching the Inc. 5000 for fastest growing companies 3 consecutive times. He then started a separate recruiting company, Right Choice Resources, which specifically focuses on the placement of salespeople, executives, marketing, account management, and customer success.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:38] Gregg’s journey of how he got into recruiting.
• [04:30] When being laid off is a blessing in disguise.
• [10:18] Transitioning from individual contributor to a recruitment business owner: Gregg shares the challenges that they overcame.
• [14:51] Scaling team to 60 people in six years.
• [17:07] Gregg reveals his key success factors.
• [20:06] Character over resume: hiring strategies to get the right people.
• [35:11] Discussion on growth strategies for a lifestyle business.
• [37:02] When to hire a COO role to scale your business.
• [42:49] Make less money in the short term to get long-term benefits.
• [48:04] Transferrable skills from sales to recruiting.
• [52:57] What is next for Gregg and his business?

Getting Laid Off Pushed Gregg Into a Recruiting Career

Gregg shared an amazing story of resilience on how he got into the recruiting industry. Getting laid off unexpectedly pushed Gregg into a recruiting career. He loved his sales job and was blindsided when he was laid off after 4 years as a top performer. This made interviewing difficult as he had to overcome the perception that he must have underperformed despite being an actual top performer. He also had non-compete from his old company which prevented him from staying in the same industry.

Facing these challenges pushed Greg to explore a new path by using his sales skills to transition into recruiting. This pivot into recruiting ended up being life-changing for Greg's career. You will hear how he used skills he learned from sales to be an effective recruiter. He even leverages his experience of being laid off to engage with candidates. “I think when I speak to candidates and we're seeing more layoffs right now, I have major empathy for them because it's not just like, I've sold like you. I've stood at trade shows for 5 hours like you. I've been laid off like you. And that really helps me, in my opinion, become a better recruiter because I've actually lived it.”

Though difficult, getting laid off opened new opportunities that Greg capitalized on. In his words, “It was a blessing in disguise. It was probably the best thing that ever happened.”

Character Over Credentials: Building an All-Star Team to Scale

Another topic that will also resonate with a lot of business owners is strategies for hiring recruiters and team members to scale. Gregg focuses on hiring people based on character and shared values over resume credentials. He wants people he genuinely enjoys working with. He told the story of how hiring a trusted person without recruiting experience worked well for their business.

This strategy works well for Gregg and his team. He has grown his first recruiting company (with no outside funding) to 60 employees, reaching the Inc. 5000 for Fastest-Growing Companies 3 times! These are some of my takeaways from their strategy:

• Vetting the work ethic, values, and coachability is crucial
• Greg wants employees he has a natural rapport
• A team aligned in values helps ensure an ethical, collaborative culture

Why Hiring a COO is Critical

If you are a solo recruitment entrepreneur and planning to scale, hiring a COO is critical. This has been true for both Gregg and me, where hiring an effective COO became a game changer.

A lot of us may be able to relate to what Gregg said:

“I've been doing it by myself for twelve years and I've never really had help. And it's been exhausting. I mean, it's been an amazing ride, but it's been exhausting. And I like to have my recruiters focus on recruiting. I mean, that's what keeps the lights on and not worrying about doing side projects and onboarding employees and dealing with maybe a tough client, which I know is going to wear them down a little bit. So that's why I decided to hire somebody in operations, is that I have my recruiters recruiting. I'm doing everything else, and to do everything else, it's a lot. I just need a helping hand.”

Gregg is intentionally growing his firm slowly to have a lifestyle business. Hiring a COO helps him to focus on sales while delegating operations. Offloading operational tasks and delegating things that he does not enjoy doing creates more freedom and a better lifestyle. This resonates well with me. Some business owners may be apprehensive to take this approach because paying someone else can translate to lesser profit. But keep in mind that making less in the short term creates more freedom to earn much more in the long term.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Gregg Salkovitch Bio and Contact Info

After being a top sales performer for 3 consecutive companies, Gregg decided to co-found a company combining the 2 things he loved most in business, sales and helping people. Over 6 year period, Gregg grew this bootstrapped company with no outside funding to 60 employees, reaching the Inc. 5000 for fastest growing companies 3 consecutive times. He then started a separate recruiting company, Right Choice Resources, which specifically focuses on the placement of salespeople, executives, marketing, account management, and customer success.

• Gregg on LinkedIn
• Right Choice Resources website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Allan Fisher on LinkedIn
• Greg Savage on LinkedIn
• Paul Warner on LinkedIn
• Rocket Fuel by Gino Wickman and Mark C. Winters

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#166 How to Bill $1,000,000 For Ten Years Straight and Grow a Successful Team, with Allan Fisher
• TRR#189 Recruiting the Savage Way: Navigating AI, Metrics, and Mindset for Recruitment Success, with Greg Savage
• TRR#143 How a Competitive Bike Racer Turned Recruiter Built a 7-Figure Staffing Firm in 3 Years, with Paul Warner

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

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Transitioning from a comfortable corporate recruitment career to building an agency is not an obvious choice for many. The risks it entails may even stop some recruiters from considering this transition. Although it may be a significant leap, with the right skills, mindset, and support, it can lead to a rewarding and profitable career change.

My special guest, Pat Corrigan, shares his story of how he successfully transitioned and thrived as a recruitment agency owner from being a corporate recruiter for more than a decade. Pat shares the three key factors to his success, as well as the strategies he continues to implement in building his team and driving revenue.

Pat is the founder of Palladium Point, a leading executive search firm based in St. Louis, serving the commercial insurance industry nationally.

His recruitment career spans fifteen years, and for the past six years has been focused on building high-performing sales teams for leading commercial insurance brokers.

After spending years leading the sales recruitment function for a global insurance broker, Pat pursued his entrepreneurial dreams and started his own firm. Since launching in 2022 they’ve taken off like a rocket.

I’m also honored to have Pat as a member of our Inner Circle coaching program.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:03] Pat's Journey into Recruiting - From Corporate Recruitment to Agency Ownership.
• [12:40] The Bold Leap - Leaving the Comfort of Corporate Life to Establish His Firm - Discover the 3 Key Success Factors.
• [19:06] Accelerating Revenue Growth and Building a High-Performing Team.
• [24:17] How Bringing in Operations Personnel and Offshore Sourcers Became a Long-Term Solution for Pat's Business.
• [32:32] Pat Shares His Proven Client Development Approach.
• [39:07] Building Sustainable Growth - Implementing Systems and Processes.
• [49:30] Crafting an Inspiring Vision and Culture.

Successful Transition From Corporate Recruitment to Becoming an Agency Owner

For 15 years, Pat established himself as a recruitment leader for several corporate staffing firms. He had a colorful career but what resonated with me is his story of how being let go from a previous job was a pivotal moment that led him to where he is today. Pat emphasizes the importance of resilience and learning from every experience.

Pat also revealed what prompted him to leave his corporate gig to set up his firm. His strong work ethic and niche expertise are the foundations that enabled his transition. He shared three critical focus areas that have been key to his success:

1. Meticulous Planning - he took time to consult with others and assess potential risks before making his decision.
2. Niche Focus - he leverage on his niche expertise that he had developed for half a decade.
3. Cash Reserves - he understood that starting a business may not always easily take off successfully, so Pat ensured that he had enough cash reserves to hold him over for a while.

This indeed is an inspiring story for corporate or in-house recruiters aspiring to become recruitment business owners someday.

Strategies for Building a Team and Driving Revenue in a Short Span of Time

We then moved on to discuss strategies for building his team and driving revenue in a short span of time. Pat discussed how long he had to work on his own before he started hiring the next person. After around three or four months he started building his team and his first hire was an ops person. How did this decision to hire an operations person impact his business long term?

His logic behind it is, as Pat puts it, “If I want to attract, recruiters, or eventually salespeople into my organization, I want to give them the platform to get out there and kick tail. And I didn't want somebody to come in as the first recruiter and say, well, here's your ATS license and your LinkedIn recruiter and Zoom info …I like kind of linear stuff, and I wanted to not rush it. And as we're bringing on talent, I wanted, like, a real solid business platform that people could access”

This is remarkable insight. Pat hired an operations person to establish a solid foundation for future growth. This strategic move allowed him to attract recruiters and create a platform that would support their success. The hiring process was focused on setting up systems and structures rather than rushing into recruitment because Pat valued organization and long-term growth potential.

Pat then shared strategies in revenue which is focused on his approach to Business Development. Pat shared his perspective on sales which is focused on interaction and relationship building. He also described a Rainmaker Model way of working that enables him to get consistent revenue in running his business.

Creating Systems and Processes for Growth

Pat also emphasized the importance of putting up systems and processes for a smooth start for new hires. We discussed the platforms and tools they are using - such as Slack, to organize his team. He also shared his approach to having an offshore researcher and sources to help in lead generation.

Pat advocates growth not only for his organization but for his team members as well. He highlighted the value of intentionally designing your business’ vision and culture to attract top talents aligned with your core values. He believes that having the right tools and working environment in place will help your team grow exponentially.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Pat Corrigan Bio and Contact Info

As the Founder and President of Palladium Point, Pat brings a rich background in recruitment spanning nearly 15 years to the table. His journey began with recruiting top-tier talent for Lockton Companies, the world's largest independent insurance brokerage, where he played a pivotal role in driving industry-leading growth.

Fueled by a desire to revitalize the recruitment and talent acquisition landscape within the insurance sector, Pat embarked on the path to establish his own firm. Recognizing the need for a more dynamic and contemporary approach, he envisioned a search firm that would infuse fresh ideas and perspectives into the industry while maintaining a collaborative, human, and intentional ethos.

Today, Pat and his team at Palladium Point are trusted partners for insurance organizations navigating the intensely competitive landscape, while also serving as advisors to top talent seeking professional fulfillment.

Prior to his venture into the insurance realm, Pat excelled in technology consulting, where he consistently delivered results on challenging recruitment initiatives for global and mid-market organizations. He proudly holds a B.A. in Psychology and Business from the University of Missouri.

• Pat on LinkedIn
• Palladium Point website link
• Palladium Point on LinkedIn

People and Resources Mentioned

• Ravi Tangri on LinkedIn
• Gail Audibert on LinkedIn
• Jeremy Sisemore on LinkedIn
• Joe Rice on LinkedIn
• Rich Rosen on LinkedIn
• ClickUp (Project Management Tool)
• Slack
• Rad Reads, by Khe Hy
• Atomic Habits, by James Clear
• The E-Myth, by Michael Gerber
• 10x is Easier Than 2x Dan Sullivan

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#155 How to Grow a Recruitment Agency from Start-Up to $3M Profit in Two Years, with Emily Rushton
• TRR#171 4 Essential Skills that All Recruitment Business Owners Need to Be Successful, with Chris Dinaso

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

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Is implementing KPIs and measuring metrics the same as micromanagement?

Measuring activities is fundamental to evaluating how effective your strategies are in running your recruitment business. However, there are some recruiters and business owners who are apprehensive about implementing metrics measurements and KPIs. Is that the same for your recruitment business?

What are the metrics and KPIs that we should measure? How do we implement a KPI and data-driven environment without giving the vibe that team members are being micromanaged? How do you communicate the intent and purpose of your KPIs to your team members?

In this episode, Greg Savage explained why it is not about micromanaging and discusses metrics that empower talents. On top of this, you will also hear insightful takes on critical trends in AI and technology, and why your mindset is the key in your recruitment career success.

I am delighted to welcome the legendary Greg Savage to give us a reality check and revisit the pillars leading to recruitment success. Greg has four decades of experience owning, managing, and growing staffing businesses across the world. He’s the founder of four highly successful businesses; Recruitment Solutions (took to IPO). Firebrand Talent Search (trade sale), Eloquent Staffing (trade sale), and People2People.

Greg still takes an active interest in founding and growing recruitment businesses, investing in recruitment start-ups in Australia and the UK. He’s a LinkedIn Top Voices and has been inducted into the Recruiter International Hall of Fame.

He’s founder of The Savage Recruitment Academy, and author of the best-selling book, The Savage Truth, and has recently published a new book called Recruit The Savage Way.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:06] Greg and I delved into the essence of authentic leadership.
• [05:44] Exploring the four key factors for achieving success in the recruitment field.
• [11:01] Strategies for overcoming complacency and avoiding contentment with the status quo.
• [15:00] Greg shared his insights on the importance of continuous learning and how he benefits from nano degrees.
• [18:40] Greg’s valuable insights into the impact of AI on the recruitment industry.
• [29:41] Technological innovations that enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of recruitment.
• [32:08] Conversation about activities and key performance indicators (KPIs) and their role in achieving success in recruitment.
• [39:08] Exploring the best practices for effectively managing KPIs in recruitment.
• [47:52] Greg shared his perspectives on career development opportunities for recruiters.
• [57:00] Analysis of the economic landscape in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic.

The Mindset, Attitude, and Resilience to Become a Successful Recruiter

I have always valued Greg as a mentor all these years. With over four decades of phenomenal success in the recruitment industry, he is an established authority when it comes to sharing wisdom with aspiring recruiters and business owners. He has recently published a book, Recruit the Savage Way, which offers “practical advice, skills, and attitudes and will give rookies an excellent grounding to thrive in their new career and help veterans brush up and add new competencies.”

We have talked about the first section which is on mindset and attitude. Greg said that one of the big reasons for the high turnover in the staffing and recruitment industry is because of the wrong attitude and mindset towards the industry. He mentioned the fallacy of believing that “recruitment is not rocket science,” because it is a complex, sophisticated job.

Greg believes that the mindset and attitude factors are something that can be corrected early on. Like skills and competencies, mindset and attitude can also be honed and trained. He emphasized four factors:

• Believe in your value as a recruiter
• Believe in the value that you can deliver to your stakeholders
• Having that true resilience - which he refers to as the bounce-back ability
• Overcoming the threat of complacency

Greg also shared insightful principles on what true resilience looks like for recruiters. He elaborated on the value of emotions and moving on with positivity. You will also appreciate how he defines complacency in the recruitment field.

Activities and KPIs are Critical For Recruitment Success

There is a section in Greg’s new book about the reality check on the importance of activities and KPIs to recruitment success. Greg elaborated on the two fundamental things to be successful in the business:

1. “The first thing is if you don't do enough stuff in this business, you will fail.”
2. “You cannot get better at something unless you measure it.”

Greg and I talked about the myth that measuring your metrics and KPIs is synonymous with micromanagement. As Greg said, “There is no sports person or academic or anyone who doesn't measure their outputs and then try to work on improving them. So I mean, the problem with... most KPIs is that they are foisted on people with no consideration to where those people are up to, not explained why they're important.”

Greg shared his advice to recruitment business owners on how to implement KPIs in a healthy working environment.

Insightful Take on Career Development for Recruiters

Greg also discussed a topic that deeply resonated with me: career development for recruiters and recruitment business owners. You will hear his thoughts on the threat of complacency. As he simply puts it, 10 years of experience is just 1 year of recruitment experience repeated 10 times if you are complacent. How do we overcome the trap of complacency and move forward with development?

• Continuous Learning. Greg is an advocate of continuous learning. He shared how he benefits from taking “nano degrees” to stay up to date with recent trades, such as AI.

• Owning Your Development. This is how Greg wittily describes it, “There is no one, nobody having sleepless nights about your career. Okay, maybe your mom, but nobody else is having sleepless nights about your career. Even a company that is going to help develop you, you've got to be dreaming if you think they're worried about where you're going to be in 15 years. And nor should they. You've got to worry about your career and you've got to take ownership of your career.”

• Do Not Only Think of Your Career as a Hierarchical One. Greg shared successful recruiters who have had satisfying careers by focusing on and growing the career of becoming a recruiter by itself. My takeaway from this is that appreciating the sense of progress honing your craft and seeing your results increase is extremely satisfying.

Greg Savage Bio and Contact Info

With a career spanning four decades, Greg is a founder of 4 highly successful businesses, a trusted advisor and respected voice across the global recruitment and professional services industries, and a regular keynote speaker at conferences around the world.

Throughout his fascinating career, Greg has learned countless lessons in leadership, business, and life. One of his greatest achievements is his success as a communicator. An early adopter of social media for recruiters, Greg’s industry blog, The Savage Truth, is a must-read in the recruitment industry. In November 2018, he was named one of LinkedIn’s ‘Top Voices’.

• Greg’s website link
• Greg on LinkedIn
• Greg on Facebook
• Greg on Twitter @greg_savage
• Greg on Instagram: @gregsavagetruth
• Greg on Youtube

People and Resources Mentioned

• Driving performance with recruitment metrics and KPIs
• REC presents: Recruit - The Savage Way
• Greg’s Masterclass: Recruit - The Savage Way: A recruitment masterclass series from Greg Savage
• Greg’s new book: Recruit the Savage Way
• Recruitment Coach Live Summit in Florida - recruitmentcoach.com/florida

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#1 The Future of Recruitment: Strategies To Stay Relevant and Effective, with Greg Savage
• TRR#64 The Recruiter Roadmap to Recovery: How to Thrive in a Post-Pandemic World, with Greg Savage

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If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

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Recruitment entrepreneurship can be immensely rewarding, but also brings the risk of burnout and overwhelm. New entrepreneurs can be vulnerable to workaholism, which can lead to negative consequences on physical and mental health, as well as personal relationships. We need to recognize the signs of workaholism and take steps to maintain a healthy work-life balance

My special guest, Tina Hazlett, founder of Spectrum Recruiting Solutions, shares her tips for success while maintaining a work-life balance. She gave at least four intentional steps that she took to overcome burnout, and I am sure you will find value in exploring the same steps.

Tina also shared the journey of how she transitioned from being a recruiter to a business owner, and how she navigated unpredictable market conditions. She also walked me through her advocacy of addressing the gender gap in her industry, and the steps they took to be successful in taking small steps forwards.

Tina has 22 years of experience in recruitment and started her own firm, Spectrum Recruiting Solutions, in 2018. They’ve since grown to a team of 14, based in the Salt Lake City area, Spectrum supports engineering and manufacturing companies in Utah through a combination of Direct-hire recruitment, RPO, and Consulting.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:30] Tina Shares the Beginnings of Her Career in Recruitment.
• [03:57] Tina's One-Year Sabbatical Journey Before Launching Her Recruitment Firm.
• [10:33] Envisioning a Business Founded on Inclusivity and Remote Work Opportunities.
• [15:59] Addressing the Challenge of Hiring and Training Individuals Without Recruiting Experience
• [17:54] Tina's Four Steps to Overcoming Burnout as a New Entrepreneur.
• [24:34] The Evolution of Team Growth Throughout Tina's Entrepreneurial Journey.
• [28:30] Cultivating Camaraderie in a Remote Work Environment.
• [29:42] Discussing Gender Balance and Diversity in Utah's Engineering Industry.
• [37:00] Navigating Challenges in an Unconventional Market.
• [40:56] Insights into Tina's Business Development Strategies.
• [48:20] Establishing Career Paths and Succession Plans for the Team.
• [49:20] Tina's Approach to Transforming Solid Planning into Effective Execution.
• [51:48] Recognizing the Right Time to Expand and Grow Your Team.

Overcoming Burnout as a New Entrepreneur

New entrepreneurs can be vulnerable to workaholism for various reasons: passion and drive, new responsibilities, and adjusting to the learning curve of managing a new business. This was exactly how Tina felt when she founded Spectrum.

“If I'm being very honest about a couple years into starting spectrum, I hit a wall and I hit it hard and was so super burned out. And there was about at least a three-week period that I struggled to get out of bed. I was so tired.”

If you are feeling the same way, do not just ignore it. Workaholism leading to burnout can have many negative consequences. Tina was well aware of this fact, so she took action in order to build herself back up. We discussed the four steps she took to overcome overwhelm:

• Realigning her priorities and making the most of her support system.
• She took concrete steps like scheduling dedicated family time on her calendar
• Creating a space for herself to take care of her mental health by doing yoga.
• Walking away from adversarial clients.

Gender Balance and Diversity Within the Engineering & Manufacturing Field in Utah

Tina talked me through her advocacy when she was planning to launch her recruitment firm. She said, “We really struggle in terms of our reputation and women's rights. That's one thing that I really wanted to promote. Where we focus on engineering and manufacturing in Utah, there's not a ton of representation for females out here, especially when it comes to equality, politically and professionally. Our goal was to really make sure women have a seat at the table.”

Her team took intentional steps to reach their objectives. They created channel partnerships and pipelines of candidates. They go beyond social media platforms through face-to-face networking. She elaborated on how they would align with a group with similar mission and values for mutual support. This resulted in having females in 41% of their placement, which is an astonishing feat in their industry.

Business Development Strategies

We also discussed Tina’s most influential business development strategy. How are they able to develop their client base? She explains, “Through a lot of our networking events is our number one way to do it where we can get in front of people. For example, we just did a hosted roundtable with the Utah Outdoor Association which does a lot of product development for outdoors like kayaks, canoes, tables, and that type of thing. So if we can get in and present, be the experts, be that resource, then we have people coming to us with questions that evolve into those strategic conversations. And what's been the most successful for us is getting that FaceTime. We're not cold callers.”

This strategy of hosting and speaking at events builds the credibility of Tina and her team. This gives them the opportunity to have a consultative approach instead of just selling.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Tina Hazlett Bio and Contact Info

Tina started Spectrum Recruiting Solutions in 2018 after serving 17 years in the Talent Acquisition industry. A professional sabbatical and personal desire to travel helped to provide the mental space she needed to create her vision of the ideal Talent Acquisition Firm. She and her entire family spent a full year traveling across the United States in a Winnebago, on purpose. She fulfilled her soul as well as her contractual non-compete agreement.

With sheer determination and a dream, she built a successful recruiting, consulting & outplacement company that is thriving today. Amongst historic levels of economic uncertainty and geopolitical turmoil, she began a recruiting revolution!

When she’s not putting her blood, sweat, and tears into Spectrum, she is active in the community fighting for gender pay equality and managing her family's annual "Backpack Project" which provides basic necessities to underprivileged kids within our community. Somehow Tina still finds time to continue exploring her soul and her world, traveling, hiking, biking, teaching yoga, and living life to the absolute fullest with her AMAZING family.

• Tina on LinkedIn
• Spectrum Recruiting Solutions website link
• Spectrum on Facebook
• Spectrum on Instagram
• Spectrum on YouTube
• Spectrum on Twitter

People and Resources Mentioned

• Foram Brown on LinkedIn
• Emily Rushton on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#155 How to Grow a Recruitment Agency from Start-Up to $3M Profit in Two Years, with Emily Rushton

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

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Starting a cybersecurity recruitment business during a tech market downturn can be exceptionally challenging for several reasons: reduced demand, intense competition, financial constraints, and talent availability.

Despite these challenges, it's not impossible to succeed in launching a cybersecurity recruitment business during a downturn, as proven by my special guest, Stuart Mitchell.

Stu founded Hampton North in 2022 with the goal of building the most trusted cybersecurity search firm in the united states. Despite the downturn in the tech market, they’re on pace to bill $1.5-2M in their first year.

In this episode, Stu shared his insights into key topics that help him succeed: finding the right people to surround you, attracting and retaining the best people, and how to build a personal brand, and becoming a recognized industry leader.

With over a decade of experience, Stu has been a successful billing manager, having personally billed over a million dollars while building a multi-million dollar team who achieved an EBITA of $1m.

He’s placed some of the most well-known cyber security executives into Financial Services Companies, Retail Brands, and Tech Giants alike. He has built cyber security programs from 0-20+ on multiple occasions, including one of these scale-ups in less than 8 weeks.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:30] How Stu got into recruiting leading to him starting his recruitment firm.
• [11:30] From good to great - finding the right people to surround you.
• [16:18] How Stu began to build his brand by sharing a case study on LinkedIn.
• [20:48] Stu shared how he launched Hampton North and what makes them thrive despite the downturn in the tech industry.
• [29:52] Attracting, hiring, and retaining the best people as a startup.
• [39:21] Breakdown of how Stu became a recognized industry leader.
• [50:00] The importance of consistency in creating value-adding content - hear Stuart’s content strategies.
• [1:03:30] Stu shares what is next for Hampton North.

Overcoming a Tech Market Downturn - Launching Hampton North and Billing 7 Digits on Their First Year

A remarkable achievement that I wanted to discuss with Stu is how he launched his cybersecurity recruitment business, Hampton North in 2022. What makes it amazing is that despite the downturn in the tech market, they are on pace to bill $2M in their first year!

I am excited to share in this episode Stu’s insights on the things that contributed to this success. We zoomed in on three key factors:

1. The importance of hard work.
2. Developing key account relationships.
3. The quality of people that you hire.

The third topic resonated well with me as I feel the impact of having the right team members to support my business. For many recruitment business owners, especially those who are just starting, hiring someone can be like a roll of the dice. Stu shared how he was able to get the top talents and retain them. It can probably be summarized with a question that serves as his guiding principle when hiring: “Who are the best people that I know, and why aren't they already working here?”

Becoming a Recognized Industry Leader and Consistent in Sharing Relevant Content

Stu also did a phenomenal job in establishing a reputation in the cybersecurity space as a recognized thought and industry leader. With more than 40,000 LinkedIn followers, he is consistent in posting industry-relevant content. I also enjoy the posts that he shares, so I wanted to get his thought process on how he is consistently coming up with ideas.

We discussed the following subjects:

• The impact of sharing case studies.
• Creating a brand of familiarity less the intention of wanting to be liked.
• Avoiding “forced content” by sharing free-flowing ideas.
• Strategies in creating 2-3 posts a day consistently.

Stu described his thought process this way, “I think I kind of see this as t kind of the writer's strike in Hollywood, right? The more you force it and try and make things rigid and structured like it's really hard to force great ideas. Great ideas are free-flowing.”

Surrounding Yourself with the Right People

Before becoming a recruitment business owner, Stu has always been a consistently successful billing manager. He billed over a million dollars while building a multi-million dollar team that achieved an EBITA of $1m.

He revealed what can turn a good recruiter into a great recruiter: “I think it goes back, there's a saying of yours, your collective sum of the five closest people around you.”

Stu mentioned great recruiters where he learned to shift his perspectives in terms of what is possible. Surrounding yourself with the right people can shift your whole belief system to drive you to reach your potential.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Stuart Mitchell Bio and Contact Info

Stuart is a seasoned professional with over a decade of global expertise in technical recruiting.

Stuart's influence extends deep into the heart of America's cybersecurity landscape, where he has been instrumental in securing top-tier executives for prominent Financial Services Companies, Retail Brands, and Technology Giants. His achievements also include the remarkable feat of independently establishing cybersecurity programs from the ground up, often growing them from zero to over 20 employees in astonishingly short periods, with one such endeavor completed within just eight weeks.

With a track record of building and expanding technical recruitment enterprises, Stuart embarked on the journey to establish Hampton North. His mission is to forge Hampton North into the foremost trusted name in cybersecurity recruitment throughout the United States.

• Stuart on LinkedIn
• Hampton North website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Steven Li on LinkedIn
• Lee Hills on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR# 175 How to Build Trust and Relationships at Scale by Hosting Meet-up Events, with Steven Li

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

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Recruiting is not only sales and data-driven. It encompasses a broader range of skills, qualities, and considerations which is mainly focused on building relationships and human connection. Effective recruiting involves understanding people's motivations, aspirations, and personalities.

That is why it is important for recruiters and business owners to understand the value of Emotional Intelligence. Emotional intelligence empowers recruiters to navigate the intricacies of human interaction, fostering trust, rapport, and success within the recruitment industry.

In this episode, my special guest, James Elliot, shares the five pillars of emotional intelligence which are critical components in becoming effective recruiters. James is very different from my usual guests in that he does not come from a recruiting background.

James joined the British Army in 2006, deploying around the world including to Afghanistan.

After his own issues with mental health, James became a strength and conditioning coach at a national league rugby team, where he learned the power of mentoring. He was then asked to help establish the first-ever British Army Parachute Jumping Instructors Platoon.

At RAF Brize Norton, James also attended several courses in mental health, becoming an instructor, and also broke 2 Guinness world records in feats of endurance in rugby.

In 2018, James became a Mental Resilience Coach for the British Army, where he helped develop and deliver mental resilience training, including to special forces. In 2020, James left the army to take his mental resilience training to a wider audience including high-performing individuals and teams, such as the Paralympic Rowing team.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:39] Why understanding human behavior is practical in the recruiting industry.
• [04:36] James’ journey as a mental resilience coach and what made him pursue mental health qualifications.
• [15:04] James shares the resilience principles that he was teaching in the British Army.
• [17:40] Our discussion on the key concepts of resilience.
• [31:14] Practical applications of resilience in the field of recruiting.
• [39:09] Why emotional influence and biases play a huge role in your decision-making.
• [42:29] What should you do when a candidate ghosts you?
• [46:49] Zooming in to Emotional Intelligence - what is it and how do you develop it?
• [54:10] The Five Pillars of Emotional Intelligence.
• [55:51] James shares his motto "Leave every room better than you found it" - use your positive influence.

Understanding Resilience and Human Behaviour to Become an Effective Recruiter

James explains his approach to mental resilience which focused on adapting to adversity. We discussed key topics o human behavior that can contribute to your success as a recruiter or recruitment business owner. The takeaways that well resonated with me are the following:

Embracing Human Behaviour Insight: He zoomed in on the value of understanding human behavior, which he believes is a massive part of being an effective recruiter. When dealing with your team, a candidate, or a client, this life skill is critical to becoming effective.

Leveraging Human Connection James also elaborated on the importance of engaging with someone on a very human level to bring out the very best of their performance. This is useful when coaching your team. James relayed very specific examples of how this has worked for him and his coachees and how this can work for you.

Thriving Through Resilience The principle of resilience is about turning surviving into thriving. For you to become resilient, it is not always about being the strongest or the sharpest. It is about learning to adapt. For James, it is about changing quicker and adapting faster than everybody.

Unveiling Emotional Intelligence James reveals his thought process about emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and understanding your emotions. These topics are relevant to the recruitment field, which is a people business.

How Emotional Intelligence Influences Your Decision Making

When we say resilience, we do not only refer to overcoming drastic events and momentous situations. For example, recruitment on its own is challenging as is due to its demanding and stressful nature, punctuated by daily rejection. You are dealing with human beings, who don't always do what they say or communicate transparently. A strong will and resilient mindset are critical components to be successful in recruitment.

I had to ask James’ viewpoint on how to develop mental resilience. James argues that resilience isn't about suppressing emotions but understanding them through emotional intelligence. We talked about practical steps that can help you develop emotional intelligence. A good example is when dealing with people, may it be a candidate or your own team member. Emotional maturity includes overcoming conscious and unconscious biases to deal with your stakeholders effectively. James says our biases often make us see people as we want, not objectively. Look at their actions by making an objective timeline of people's actual behaviors to see their true patterns.

We also discussed modern-day communication and how to deal with ghosting, which is becoming a more common trend nowadays. James gave his perspective on what prompts other people to ghost others and how this can be dealt with in the field of recruiting.

The Five Pillars of Emotional Intelligence

James breaks emotional intelligence into 5 pillars:

Self-awareness, emotional control, empathy, social awareness, and motivation.

He elaborated on each of these pillars and shared insights on how their application. He talked about the biggest obstacles to motivation and self-improvement. James also shared his motto: "Leave every room slightly better than you found it".

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

James Elliot Bio and Contact Info

A psychotherapist and resilience coach, who takes a close look at the scientific methods of the development of resilience, from observable neurobiological reactions to psychotherapeutic processes and proven psychological techniques to develop an individual's emotional resilience.

Having served 14 years in the British Army's Airborne Forces, including as the second in command of the British Army's Mental Resilience Training Team, as part of the British Army's first Army Parachute Jumping Instructors platoon, operational deployment to Afghanistan, and two seasons as a strength and conditioning coach to a National League rugby team.

Now working as a psychotherapist who works with a broad spectrum of high-achieving individuals including trail-blazing athletes, special forces operators, blue light services, CEOs, politicians, and vulnerable veterans to help the individual find their subjective fulfillment and state of emotional resilience.

Fighting through childhood abuse, instability, poor mental health, and poverty, James Elliott uses his lived experiences to help relate the complicated psychological principles to his audience.

Currently living in Essex, where he is still an avid supporter of his local rugby team, dedicated to a healthy lifestyle and developing his health and strength, James continues his studies currently at King's College London and is a father to a charismatic daughter.

• James on LinkedIn
• Tough Enough to Care website link (A Non-Profit that James support)
• Think Yourself Resilient: Harness Your Emotions. Build Your Confidence. Transform Your Life.

People and Resources Mentioned

• The Chimp Paradox by Steve Peters
• David and Goliath, by Malcolm Gladwell

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Fostering a workplace where everyone wants to work can translate to positive employer branding. This is a critical factor if you wish to build your recruitment business to scale.

Joe Curtis, my special guest, will tell us how they can launch and scale recruitment companies while building those as businesses that people want to work for. The first recruitment business Joe and his cofounders built, 3Search, launched in 2014, and currently employs 40 people. With the successful scaling of 3Search, Joe turned his attention to building the 11 Investments Group, now at 100 heads, with 6 recruitment companies within the group.

In this episode, Joe shared his insights on they are able to have 900+ 5-star Google Reviews across their group, which is phenomenal for a recruitment company. We also discussed the value of diversity and inclusivity, as well as his take on the work-from-home and hybrid setup which is a recently hot topic.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:27] Joe’s recruiter and investor journey: How he left Michael Page and started his boutique firm.
• [06:41] Strategies for investing in startups instead of growing capital for the original business.
• [13:27] Turning mistakes into learning opportunities - Joe revealed their biggest learnings and how they use them to help new startups invest in their holding.
• [22:35] Having a shared vision and working well with co-founders.
• [31:00] What it takes to be recognized as a Great Place to Work.
• [38:49] Zooming in on inclusivity and behavior-based hiring.
• [47:45] Discussion on the hybrid and work-from-home setting.

Critical Components When Launching and Scaling Recruitment Businesses

Joe co-founded his first recruitment business, 3Search, in 2014 which currently employs 40 people. With the successful scaling of 3Search, Joe turned his attention to building the 11 Investments Group, now at 100 heads. I wanted to pick his brains on the core components needed to build and scale a recruitment business.

From a strategic point of view, Joe tells the story of why they invested in startups. “Because we didn't want a multi-discipline business. We wanted a group of specialists,” he continued, “we champion small business, we champion entrepreneurship. and growth of small companies. And we have a platform that enables significant ownership to the guys that come in and found the businesses with us. We know how to scale and grow a recruitment business today in 2023, and we bring in founders who know their market well.”

What does the roadmap look like when it comes to scaling a recruitment business? Joe explained how they use an investment model to adapt to the market. He also mentioned how important it is to be hands-on. You will also hear strategies for handling operational tasks such as accounting and marketing on a centralized approach. Most importantly, Joe also shared the mistakes and learnings that they had to take for the past 9 years and how they are leveraging them to help out recruitment businesses investing in their group.

Running a Recruitment Business with Multiple Co-Owners

Running a recruitment business with multiple co-owners can be challenging for several reasons such as decision-making, division of responsibilities, and communication. But what I think is most common is the lack of a shared vision. Leaders can have different ideas of what they're trying to accomplish. What advice would Joe give to recruitment business owners who are working with multiple or other partners? He discussed the following two key principles:

• Having an articulated vision in the short, medium, and long term.
• Constantly talk about what you are doing and building.

As Joe describes it, “And these days, you know, we don't spend an awful lot of time together as a three talking about stuff, making decisions. So if you're not careful, you can start planning the future. on your own and then one of the others is planning a slightly different future. And as you kind of, as time goes on, those plans get further and further and further apart. So it's important to keep talking about what we're building.”

Creating a Business That People Want to Work For

Recently featured in The Sunday Times, Best Places to Work 2023, 11investment’s efforts have been recognized among the top-rated employers. This is an amazing feat, especially in the recruitment industry. Joe and his partners recognized that “hiring people is going to be hard in the recruitment industry and keeping people was going to be hard in their doing what we're doing.” They took proactive steps to ensure that they retain their valuable talents.

Joe revealed the things that they are doing differently to foster an environment where people want to work. “This employer brand we're building is all based around us really striving to provide the best benefits package we possibly can as a holistic package for people. It's really important that we consider everybody's needs collectively rather than just paying as much commission as we possibly can or having an amazing holiday benefit or, yeah, we're trying to put everything together. So we do have an amazing commission structure, I believe. We do have a good holiday. We've got unlimited holidays… The goal is to provide the best environment we possibly can that enables everybody to flourish both professionally and personally.”

We also discussed topics relating to hybrid and work-from-home setups, as well as what it takes to become a B-Corp-certified company.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Joe Curtis Bio and Contact Info

Joe is a recruiter, founder of multiple businesses, and now a recruitment investor who is helping to build and scale recruitment businesses.

Joe is the Director & Co-Founder at 11 Investments Director & Co-Founder at Recruiter Labs Director at 3Search

11 Investments was named The Sunday Times' Top Place To Work for 16-34 year-olds in 2023.

• Joe on LinkedIn
• 11 Investments website link
• 3Search website link
• Recruiter Labs website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Adrian Romani on LinkedIn
• Anne Swain on LinkedIn
• APSCo website link
• Hibob HR Tool link
• Malcolm Gladwell’s podcast episode discussion on working from home

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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“Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) is a priority to the next generation of employees. Their expectation is to see leaders who look like them and to know organizations are committed to

DEI long-term — not only during times of social crisis.” The Future of Recruiting 2023 LinkedIn Report

Embracing diversity in the recruitment industry is a progressive move that not only brings commercial benefits. It is a long-term commitment that aligns with the values of the current and future employees. I am delighted to share this episode with a very special guest, Alexis Alvarez.

Alexis is a diversity advocate and the founder of Career Rockstars, a boutique talent and diversity search firm that partners with lower and middle-market PE firms in the United States and Europe. In this episode, she shared how they became diversity recruitment specialists for lower and middle-market private equity firms, with diversity hires of 60-75%.

Alexis has over 10 years of recruiting experience and is also a podcast host. Her show is called Take the Stage - Ladies Who Rock, conversations with rockstar women from the world of private equity.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:46] From the US to the Middle East and Europe - hear Alexis’ recruitment career journey.
• [12:30] How Alexis started her Private Equity (PE) recruitment firm.
• [21:39] Why truly embracing diversity can be a key differentiator to a recruitment company.
• [26:00] A retrospect to Alexis’ biggest achievements as a recruitment business owner including key learnings.
• [29:07] Do you consider yourself the biggest challenge in your recruitment career? Listen as Alexis shares how she can relate.
• [32:02] Discussion on how to dislodge self-limiting beliefs.
• [36:18] Career Rockstar’s critical success factor: Patience, Purpose, and Intention framework.
• [40:20] Launching “Take the Stage Ladies Who Rock” - adding value to the recruitment industry through podcasting.
• [51:12] David vs Goliath - the story of how Alexis won a huge deal over Heidrick & Struggles.
• [56:40] Navigating the unseen challenges of working full-time as a mom and recruitment business owner.

Truly Embracing Diversity as a Key Differentiator

Career Rockstars’ unique selling point is its commitment to diversity and inclusion. Alexis has a remarkable 60 to 75% diversity placement rate in her company. They prioritize diversity in their searches. This approach attracts like-minded firms that are also committed to diversity.

What led Alexis to adopt this approach? She explained, “And I don't know why, maybe it's being, growing up in LA, you're in a really diverse setting... It was really like in 2020 when the world was falling apart. I'm seeing everything happen in the US. I just thought, what's happening, like, I could be doing more… I just thought, okay, well, what can I do? And that's really when I decided to double down on increasing the number of diverse candidates that are in my pipeline, at least. And that's really how it started.”

Like me, you will also be inspired by Alexis’ passion and positive energy while sharing her story. How are you embracing diversity in your recruitment firm? Doing so is a progressive move that brings significant advantages. By fostering an inclusive culture and actively seeking diverse talent, recruitment companies create a more dynamic and forward-thinking business mindset.

Operating Under the Patience, Purpose, and Intention Framework

Alex shared her work framework involving patience, purpose, and intention. This is aligned with her business model and also a no-nonsense approach to coming up with solutions for her clients. Some valuable insights that Alexis shared are:

• Patience - this entails planning in advance and not over-complicating things.
• Purpose - having clarity on purpose and the “why” of doing things will lead you to plan with intention.
• Intention - this is credibility through action.

This benefits Alexis both personally and professionally. She explains, “So not only with the clients that I work with and telling them how to help them and what they need to do and what patience in their context means and purpose and intention in their context means, but like with candidates who want to make a move, it's the same simple concepts that are applied, but just you're adapting them to different scenarios.”

Dislodging Self-Limiting Beliefs

A lot of us can relate to another key topic that Alexis and I discussed: overcoming self-doubt. When I asked her about the biggest challenges she had to face, she mentioned that her biggest obstacle is self-limiting beliefs. I admired how Alexis transparently laid out how she felt when she had to deal with insecurity, an impostor mindset, and self-doubts. We then discussed how she is able to greatly improve her confidence with the support of her husband. She also talked about the value of joining a coaching group.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Alexis Alvarez Bio and Contact Info

Career Rockstars Founder, recruitment expert, and diversity advocate, Alexis

Alvarez is a steward of capital...human capital. She delivers value-creating impact

working with L&MM PE firms who want to increase their diverse hires and broaden

their talent pools.

With 15 years of recruitment experience, Alexis knows that firms simply cannot hire

high-caliber diverse talent with a low-caliber, or non-existent, diversity strategy. She

understands that attracting, and retaining, diverse talent requires patience, purpose,

conscious effort, and intention. This approach, together with her positive energy and

ability to find and attract outstanding talent, make her a true talent partner.

Alexis’ commitment to diversity started as a child growing up in Los Angeles. As a

first-generation American, she was raised to embrace different cultures, races, and

religions, understanding from a very early age that being different was not a

weakness but a strength. That upbringing has served as a guiding principle

throughout her life: different is good and more often than not, great!

Prior to founding Career Rockstars, Alexis led recruitment efforts in the European

and Middle Eastern digital TV spaces, working with HBO Europe and StarzPlay Arabia. She holds an MBA from IE Business School in Madrid, Spain, and a BS in International Business from CSU Northridge. She is a lover of languages and considers herself a hard-core Godfather fan, and when not playing referee to her three young children, tries to squeeze in time for reading and sewing.

• Alexis on LinkedIn
• Career Rockstars website link
• Take the Stage Podcast link

People and Resources Mentioned

• The 2023 Future of Recruiting LinkedIn Report

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#154 How to Improve Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion in Your Recruitment Process, with Jo Major * TRR#102 How Recruiters Can Promote Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, with Chikere Igbokwe * TRR#57 Diversity as a Differentiator – How Recruiters Can Attract 70% More Diverse Talent, with Helen McGuire * TRR#12 The Commercial Value of Diversity and Inclusion in Recruitment, with Raj Tulsiani

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"Selling without selling" refers to an approach or technique that focuses on building authentic relationships with potential customers and meeting their needs without resorting to pushy sales tactics. The goal is to create a positive and genuine interaction with prospects, building long-lasting relationships.

This can be easier said than done, that is why our special guest, Mike Silverstein of Direct Recruiters, Inc shares how he applies this to his practice and he has helped developed multi-million dollar billers.

Mike is the Managing Partner of DRI's healthcare IT and life sciences practice. In 2014, Mike was inducted into the Pinnacle Society, which is the nation's premier consortium of top recruiters within the direct placement and search industry. In 2016, Mike was named one of the most influential millennials by Staffing Industry Analysts.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [04:28] How getting fired from his first job led … Mike got into recruitment.
• [08:16] Building a practice from scratch in the middle of a recession
• [17:15] Figuratively depositing in the emotional bank account - hear young Mike’s strategy for building relationships with senior executives in transition.
• [22:30] Mike reveals why you should “Never sell on the first call!”
• [31:20] Practices on leads tracking and follow-up.
• [33:19] Why you must hire team members to complement what you’re good at.
• [38:24] Lessons learned in trying to grow a team.
• [39:56] The one thing you cannot teach your team members.
• [43:41] Hiring, mentoring, and developing million dollar billers.

“Never Sell on the First Call!”

Mike revealed the best advice he got when he was just starting as a recruiter.

He shared, “I learned that if you can resist the urge to sell on the first call … you're going to land in the friend or, you know, consultant bucket versus the person that five minutes into a call is asking for something. And if you can resist the urge to sell on the first call, you'll have carte blanche to ask for stuff for the rest of your relationship because you've established yourself in the right part of somebody's brain.”

I believe that this approach has contributed greatly to Mike’s success. Understanding the value of being genuine and authentic allowed him to gain respect from potential clients and other stakeholders. Mike shared how he applied these principles to grow a multi-million dollar practice.

Hiring, Mentoring, and Developing Million Dollar Billers

A fulfilling accomplishment in Mike’s career is how he hired and developed million dollar billers in their firm. Some of the talent he hired as rookies have gone on to become Partners. What are the key factors in build a team of high performers?

Here are some insights that Mike shared:

1. You cannot teach self-motivation: “I think one of the things I learned is you can't teach motivation. Like people have to be self-motivated. You can teach the skill, but you can't teach them motivation.”
2. Build Relationships: Mike loves talking to people, whether it be candidates or senior executives, and would happily add value even if he is not pitching any business during the initial interactions. He described it as “depositing into the relationship bank”, which keeps him top-of-mind when there are positions that need to be filled.
3. Be Top-of-Funnel Driven: “I've had to learn the hard way that you can't be relying on any one customer or any one relationship. And so I am obsessed with top of the funnel,” Mike says. Being consistent in top-of-funnel activities like marketing and business development is key to consistent billing.

Complement Your Strengths with the Right Team Members

Another topic that resonated with me is our discussion on the value of hiring the right team members. A lot of solo recruiters and recruitment entrepreneurs tend to attemp to do everything on their own. But the most successful business owners I know are those who know how to delegate and hire team members that complement their strengths.

Mike shared how this has been a game-changer for him when he hired an experienced partner to complement his strengths and weaknesses. He said, “And if recruiting is a combination of art and science, I'm the artist and she's the scientist.”

If you are a solo practitioner, you might be missing out on opportunities by not building a team. If you're in a boat rowing by yourself,you can only go so fast and so far. But if you have a whole crew who are rowing in the same direction, man, you can really motor!

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Mike Silverstein Bio and Contact Info

Mike Silverstein is the Managing Partner of DRI's Healthcare IT Division and Life Sciences Practice. In 2014, Mike was inducted into The Pinnacle Society, the nation’s premier consortium of top recruiters within the direct placement and search industry. In 2016, Mike was named one of the most "" by Staffing Industry Analysts, the global advisor of staffing and workforce solutions.

Mike founded the Healthcare IT practice in 2008. Under his leadership, the Life Sciences Practice has expanded and the HIT practice area has grown significantly year-over-year. Additionally, in 2011, Mike helped found what is now DRI's Hospital IT group as a Managing Partner, which is concentrated largely on Hospital IT staffing and consulting. With a focus on recruiting from the Executive Level and C-Suite through individual contributor roles within healthcare software and services organizations nationwide, Mike's diverse background helps him to identify exceptional individuals from startup companies to Fortune 500 corporations. Mike’s consultative style along with his personable approach enables him to develop trusted relationships with clients and investors in order to deliver high-caliber talent capable of leading companies in competitive and fast-changing business environments. Mike Silverstein is known as one of the top healthcare IT recruiters and life sciences recruiters in the United States.

Mike graduated Cum Laude in Marketing and Entrepreneurship from Miami University, Oxford, Ohio. He is a Cleveland sports fan, and enjoys music, socializing with friends, and discussing politics.

• Mike on LinkedIn
• Direct Recruiters website link
• Direct Recruiters on Facebook
• Direct Recruiters on YouTube
• Direct Recruiters on Twitter

People and Resources Mentioned

• Pinnacle Society
• The book mentioned: The Five Dysfunctions of a Team
• Kasey Kaiser on LinkedIn
• Dan Charney on LinkedIn
• Fernando Espinosa on LinkedIn
• Norman Volsky on LinkedIn
• Chris Shoettelkotte on LinkedIn
• Rich Rosen on LinkedIn
• Crelate - recruiting software

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#182 Growth Mindset: How to Conquer Self Doubt and Become a Top Biller, with Fernando Espinosa * How to Build a $6M+ Practice by Hiring and Training Top Performers, with Norman Volsky * How to Create a Unique Value Proposition and Sell Retained Executive Search, with Chris Shoettelkotte * Think Like a Big Biller: How to Get Repeat Business and Referrals, with Rich Rosen

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If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

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The most successful recruiters and recruitment business owners are constantly learning and evolving. While average performers often think they know it all, the top 10% are never satisfied in their quest for continuous improvement.

Someone who has reinvented himself multiple times over his 30-year recruitment career is my special guest, Fernando Espinosa.

I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I did. Fernando is an incredible recruiter who’s filled as many as 500 roles in one year - that’s more than a placement per day! But the reason I most admire and respect Fernando is his humility.

Fernando has navigated several economic recessions and business setbacks. In the process, he has overcome self-doubt and limiting beliefs numerous times throughout his career. His passion for personal growth and development stems from his sincere desire to become the best version of himself on a daily basis.

Fernando is the President and CEO of Top Notch Finders, Inc., a member of Sanford Rose Associates (SRA) Network. With over 3 decades of excellence in the field, Fernando’s firm recruits top-tier executives for manufacturing sites in Mexico, LATAM, and the United States. He also has expertise in executive roles across Europe, Asia, and the Americas.

Fernando’s been a member of The Pinnacle Society since 2007, a collective of the top 80 headhunters in North America.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:54] How Fernando got into the recruiting industry.
• [04:52] Placing 30 to 40 people per month and launching Top Notch Finders.
• [10:47] Making more than one placement a day - how Fernando did it before the internet!
• [15:43] Practice makes progress - Fernando shares how he became fluent in English.
• [18:21] Transitioning from a successful recruiter to becoming a recruitment business owner and returning as a solo recruiter.
• [22:00] Reflection on overcoming limiting beliefs.
• [34:00] Why and how you should avoid the “Lion Syndrome.”
• [35:45] Shifting from contingent to retained and engaged.
• [46:04] What makes Fernando one of the top recruiters in the US? Hear his incredible story of how he filled 500 positions in a year.
• [53:18] The biggest lessons Fernando has learned that make him a successful recruiter today.
• [55:07] Why Fernando invests in coaching and personal development despite his great successes.

Become a Successful Recruiter by Overcoming Self-Limiting Beliefs

A key topic that really resonated with me in this conversation with Fernando is his mindset on limiting beliefs.

He shared his story of resilience when the 2008-09 Global Financial Crisis hit their recruitment business: “We went from $6 million to about $500,000 in sales. So we had to let go of many people. It was a brutal experience. We felt like we were, we had imposter syndrome because we weren't what we thought we were.”

He had to part ways with his business partner and he had to start over by setting up his solo shop. This is how he described the situation: “I had to start all over again… And of course, also the limiting beliefs. When you have limiting beliefs and you don't know that you have limiting beliefs, that affects your ability to reinvent yourself, to create a better version of yourself. And I have tons of limiting beliefs, self-limiting beliefs.”

Can you relate to Fernando’s experience? Have you faced a setback so hard that it affected your mindset and you would not know where to start? You will likely be inspired by how Fernando overcame this hurdle by reinventing himself throughout the years and improving in many different ways.

Evolving from Contingency to Retained Recruiter - and Billing $700,000 in 8 Months with One Client

I have always advocated the value of the retained or engaged search model as a win-win solution for both clients and recruiters. That is why I was interested to hear how Fernando transitioned from 100% contingent to retained search. He shared mainly two key pointers in doing so:

• Understanding the dynamics of engaged and retained search processes.
• Overcoming the biggest obstacle in transitioning to a retained - his own beliefs.

Fernando shared his first retainer project and how he started to engage his clients in this new approach by working on positions that most competitors and talent acquisition teams are struggling to fill. He then asked for a low retainer - of one to two thousand dollars, just to get the commitment of the client. He then turned it into an incredible $700k billings in eight months!

At the time that this episode is published, Fernando is getting a 60% success rate in his retained search.

Continuously Reinventing Yourself in a 30-Year Recruiting Career

My main takeaways from this episode are Fernado’s astounding humility and appetite for learning. As he mentioned, he has reinvented himself continuously in his 30-year recruitment career. We actually recently started working together as part of our coaching group. This is despite him already billing $1M+ yearly, having already extensive training from SRA, being a member of Pinnacle, and doing so many things right in his recruitment business.

This is how he concluded our conversation:

“I believe that it is very critical to develop the best version of yourself on a daily basis. When you settle with the version of yourself, you automatically put a stop to your growing and your developing. I always believe that I don't have all the answers… I always know that there are people with different perspectives, different ideas, and different thought processes that I can learn from and that I can enrich myself. And I'm willing to do that. I'm willing to listen to an expert recruiting coach that has been very successful helping other recruiting owners.”

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Fernando Espinosa Bio and Contact Info

Fernando has more than three decades of search experience in search. Since 1994 involved in assisting clients from North America, Europe, and Asia to solve a variety of dedicated search, recruiting, outplacement, employee engagement and retention, cultural sensitivity, and other human-resource-related issues in their Mexico, Latin America, and US/Mexico border region operations.

He is the first credentialed member of The Pinnacle Society from Mexico. Membership in The Pinnacle Society is limited to 75 of the highest-performing recruiters in North America. Membership is attained only by meeting an exceptionally high standard of recruiting production and after a thorough review and approval process by its Board of Directors. Member of the Board of Directors for NAPS (National Association of Personnel Services). District Director for the US West Coast.

• Fernando on LinkedIn
• Top Notch Finders website link
• Top Notch Finders on Facebook
• Top Notch Finders on YouTube
• Sanford Rose website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• The Pinnacle Society
• Karen Schmidt on LinkedIn
• Jeff Kaye on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Sales is the lifeblood of every business. It’s almost impossible to scale your recruitment company without a consistent flow of new business. Yet many recruitment agencies are lacking an effective and repeatable sales process.

My next guest, Alex Elliott, has designed an effective client acquisition system that yields consistent, predictable results. It enables him and his team to focus their efforts on the right things, optimize the customer experience, and make data-driven decisions to drive revenue growth and business success.

However, designing and executing an effective business development system is easier said than done! In this episode, Alex reveals how they designed their client acquisition funnel around four core sales processes.

Alex also shared best practices and tips on how to consistently share value-adding LinkedIn posts, and how to structure your business for scale.

This is Alex’s second time on the show. The last time was way back in December 2019, before the pandemic. He shared the story of co-founding Liquid Personnel with Jonathan Coxon and how they scaled to a 100M revenue business and became the number one market leader in their space before exiting via a sale to Private Equity.

Alex is now an investor and Strategic Advisor with Strive, headquartered in Manchester. Strive provides Go To Market professionals for disruptive VC-backed tech startups and scaleups across EMEA and the US.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:46] The three steps to consistently post good LinkedIn content.
• [10:30] How to structure an effective LinkedIn post using the AIDA formula.
• [14:18] Mark and Alex share perspectives on LinkedIn posts’ return on effort.
• [19:15] Why Alex invested in Strive Recruitment.
• [23:30] Alex discusses how they structure their business for scale.
• [36:15] The four core sales processes to design an effective client acquisition system.
• [44:53] How to use Sales KPIs the right way to get better results.
• [55:18] Core marketing channels that Alex’s team focuses on.

Consistently Sharing Value-Adding Linked Content with a Strong Opening Hook

Posting on LinkedIn consistently can build your professional brand, expand your network, attract top talent, engage with your audience, and promote your organization. If you are a recruitment business leader, you should set an example for your team.

Alex shared his thought process on why he consistently posts:

“I think because I've gone into the SaaS space … one of the things I noticed early on sort of going into that industry, a lot of the leaders, the sales leaders, the go-to-market leaders, and also just the CEOs within that space take personal responsibility for building their own brand. Which in turn has a huge, potentially huge positive impact on the business's brand. So I think I saw that and I was kind of motivated to see whether we could do the same.”

Alex revealed his three steps to be consistent in creating good LinkedIn posts:

1. Decide to make posting on LinkedIn a habit.
2. Create a workflow. For example Alex writes all his LinkedIn content for the week on Sunday afternoon.
3. Bank your ideas. Alex has a note on his phone where he captures ideas throughout the week. Then when he sits down to create content, he can bang out multiple high-quality posts quite quickly.

He elaborated on how he formulates his content using the AIDA (attention, interest, desire, action) principle. We also talked about our perspectives on the return on effort on LinkedIn posting.

How to Structure Your Recruitment Agency for Scale with Career Pathways

“We have multiple career pathways… If you want to scale a recruitment business, you can’t just keep adding heads and heads and heads. You have to build some of the infrastructure which is going to support that growth. One of those things is career pathways.”

I am 100% aligned with Alex regarding the importance of creating a well defined career path for your team members. For Strive - it is about ensuring that a framework or path is in place for their new joiners. Specifically, they design these paths to ensure that they work on their team’s strengths, rather than the usual progression of biller to manager.

Alex shared the career path layout for their team members covering delivery, business development, account management, technical, and management routes. We also discussed how the 360, 270, or 180 models fit their organization.

How to Design an Effective Sales Strategy and Funnel

Another topic that I love in this conversation is how Strive have designed their client acquisition and sales funnel. Focusing on business development and marketing is an absolute must for building a sustainable and resilient recruitment business. Doing this minimizes the chance of getting into a feast and famine rollercoaster that many in the industry are experiencing.

You will find value in Elliott’s explanation of the four core sales processes:

1. Territory Management
2. Call Management
3. Opportunity Management
4. Account Management

Alex also generously shared the platforms or media that they mostly focus on for their business development campaigns.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Alex Elliott Bio and Contact Info

Alex is an Investor and Strategic Director at Strive. Following the sale of his recruitment firm, Liquid Personnel, in 2016 (PE sale), he has now joined the Strive Board of Directors to help scale the business and support our international expansion. A Quote Alex lives by is "Excellence is achieved by mastery of the fundamentals".

• Alex on LinkedIn
• Strive website link
• Strive on Facebook
• Strive on Instagram

People and Resources Mentioned

• Adam Richardson (Strive co-Founder) on LinkedIn
• Harrison Scott (Strive co-Founder) on LinkedIn
• Cracking the Sales Management Code by Jason Jordan

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#2 Setting Up A Recruitment Business For Scale with Jonathan Coxon and Alex Elliott

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Is it possible to exit a small, boutique search practice where the owner is one of the primary billers? My special guest, Stephan Aschenbrenner, has found a way of making it possible.

Stephan is the CEO of EO Executives, a franchise network with offices throughout Europe. In 2011, he joined EO executives to build out their German territory. And after four years, they became one of Germany's top 50 executive search and selection firms. Stefan became the managing director of EO International Group in 2016 and became the owner in 2019.

Stephan’s goal is to help executive search professionals to build and scale a partner-led executive search firm and achieve annual billings of 2-4 million. The idea is to build a sustainable business that could be sold to a successor with a significant equity value.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:52] Stephan discusses the challenges and solutions to sustainably scale small boutique executive search firms.
• [10:40] How Stephan’s retail background relates to growing recruitment businesses through partnership and franchising.
• [14:05] Helping franchise partners to grow - Stephan shares the tools they provide.
• [18:50] Leverage Level - enabling partners to maximize their time and productivity by providing assistants.
• [21:45] Team Level - spreading business relationships within the partner’s team.
• [26:30] Developing others - billing while building teams.
• [33:50] Fostering a culture of training and coaching.
• [43:33] Finding and retaining the right partners in a franchise setup.
• [49:50] Building the equity value of a search firm.
• [54:43] Why 12 is the magic number?
• [57:32] Leveraging technology platforms.

Enhancing Small Boutique Firms' Growth through the Power of Franchising

Scaling an executive search firm is very challenging. Stephan described from his own experience how it can be disappointing to invest time and an immense amount of funding to train and onboard new consultants who will end up leaving your business.

As Stephan shared, “You're always putting the money from the strong builders and investing in the newcomers. And then the other thing is that's what we learned in the UK especially…the better the people are, the sooner they just go for a higher paycheck. So it always was a kind of high turnover. We spent so much time training the people and the people said, ‘thank you for the training. This was probably the best training I ever got. But sorry, now I go to London, for a bigger paycheck.’ So it was a constant turnover in the company.”

I think this is the experience for many owners who want to grow - the frustration and difficulty can cause many to give up pursuing their dreams of building their businesses. In our coaching program called Apex, we have dedicated business owners who are looking to scale their recruitment business between 5-25 people. We know the difficulty of achieving a strong successful company - but it is absolutely doable!

Stephan shared another solution - that is through a partner-led franchise business model. This business model is where they find committed recruitment entrepreneurs who are senior executives themselves, train them, and give them the processes to run a successful search firm.

The value they provide, as discussed by Stephan throughout this episode is helping recruitment-business owners to:

• Grow their team without the risk of investing in expensive fee earners.
• Grow their team while remaining to be a strong fee earner at the same time.
• Help them attract high-fee earners who will stay with them for 5-10 years.
• Have additional revenue streams.
• Prepare the business for succession planning.

Why Business Leaders Should Embrace Coaching

Stephan and I discussed the value of business owners and leaders embracing coaching. That is, being coachable and becoming coaches themselves. Stephan says, “Coaching is one of our favorite themes in EO… I am a certified business coach now… We are now training all of our leaders in this coaching habit as well.”

If you are a recruitment business owner, I most certainly believe that coaching is a top priority. It is a skill that can be developed and improved, and can certainly be a game–changer for your business.

Leveraging Technology to Support Partners

On top of training, EO also provides technology platforms to its partners. Stephan shared about Executive Intro (their white label version of i-intro), a technology platform that allows their partners to differentiate their service and win retained searches. They also provide CRM and ATS platforms for all their partners, allowing them and all their partners to work on the same systems and leverage each other’s networks to make more placements.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Stephan Aschenbrenner Bio and Contact Info

Stephan used to work in large international companies as an employed executive. He loved all the benefits and the “security” such firms could provide him. Then the dot-com bubble burst, the world went into recession, and he and his wife found themselves unemployed at the same time.

This was the time he decided to change his career and Stephan started his first company. In the following 10 years, Stephan and his team helped more than 2.000 entrepreneurs to find their right business idea and actually get started. During the financial crisis of 2009 he started EO Executives in Germany and within 4 years had built it into one of the TOP 50 Executive Search Firms in Germany.

In 2016 he became CEO of EO International and in 2019 he became the owner of the EO Group. Stephan is a certified business coach and during the Covid Crisis, he became a partner in the biggest business coaching network worldwide.

• Stephan on LinkedIn
• EO Executive website link
• EO Executive on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• i-intro website link

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#91 How to Start, Scale, and Sell Your Recruitment Business in 7 Years, with Karla Reffold * TRR#123 How a Recruitment Business Launched, Scaled, and Sold for $12,000,000 in 5 Years, with James Caan * TRR#111 Enjoy Exponential Growth: How to Scale and Sell a Recruitment Firm for €32 million, with Tom Hopkinson

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Billing $6M+ in 2022 is no small feat, and my special guest, Norman Volsky revealed how his team of 10 was able to achieve a phenomenal per-desk average. Norman shared valuable insights on building your team and attracting high-potential recruiters, using an internship program to establish a talent pipeline, and how to approach the challenging role of a billing manager.

Norman is a managing partner at DRI. Since 2011, he's led the digital health practice at DRI and has built a 10-person team billing $6M+ in revenue in 2022. The Pinnacle Society welcomed Norm as a member in 2021. And interestingly, in 2022, DRI managing partners merged with Kay Bassman and Sanford Rose Associates to form Starfish Partners.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:30] Norman shares why he started his podcast.
• [03:35] How Norman got into recruiting through an internship.
• [07:40] Factors leading to becoming a successful billing manager.
• [16:54] How DRi way of working is different from most recruitment firms.
• [23:15] Why finding top clients matters as much as finding top candidates.
• [30:59] Avoid the “something better than nothing” mentality.
• [32:20] How an internship setup fits a recruiting business.
• [38:14] Topic on internal recruitment: how to attract recruiters with the highest potential.
• [44:40] Sharing the success of their internship program.
• [46:49] Becoming the best example for your team and focusing on the other party’s best interest.
• [54:26] Networking into companies - calling a level up to get referred down.
• [58:04] How Norman juggles his billings while supporting his team - 3 focus areas.
• [01:04:30] Norman shares their flat team structure.

How to Adopt the Internship Model to Build Recruitment Teams

It may be a rare practice in the recruitment industry, but it’s worth exploring how an internship program could benefit your business. Norman shared the story of how he got into recruitment - from starting as an intern with no salary to becoming a Managing Partner. As the first intern in the history of DRI, his firsthand experience shows that an internship is effective in finding recruiters with the highest potential.

He revealed how they are using this model in building their team, which has proven to be very successful. Norman’s team of 10 is billing more than $6m, which is phenomenal per desk average. He shared their thought process in implementing their internship program:

“I was the first and only unpaid intern, but it ended up working out well, so no hard feelings. But our paid internship program is purely in our opinion an opportunity for us to get some talented. individuals exposed to recruiting and for them to get a couple of months of experience and to know whether it's for them. I think a lot of recruiting, it's a great career for a lot of people, but it's not for everyone. It is a lot of rejection. It is a lot of hard work. It is a lot of betting on yourself. Some people want more security than that. Some people want a little bit more of a defined career path as opposed to a lot of ambiguity. So for the right people... It's an amazing career and we want people exposed to that.”

Would you consider creating an internship program for your recruitment business? This could help you build your team, create a solid talent pipeline, and even boost your branding as an employer.

Juggling the Tasks as a Billing Manager

Norman functions as a Managing Partner and a billing manager - which I believe is the toughest job in recruiting. You're managing your own workload, your own client base, and doing deals. And at the same time, you're also training, coaching, mentoring, managing your team, and trying to get that balance right is challenging. Norman walked me through how he is able to cover these tasks with great success. Here are the takeaways:

• It is really important to start with why and focus on your own motivation.
• Learn from the best, and surround yourself with the best people.
• Build your team smartly, think outside the box, and be different from other hiring companies.
• Practice what you preach, lead from the front.
• Overcoming impostor syndrome with the right mindset.

As Norman puts it, “I think hiring the right people makes your life a lot easier. So that definitely stacks the deck in your favor. I think the other thing is you've got to practice what you preach. You got to lead from the front. You got to show a work ethic and the standard of excellence and the importance of quality. And if you lead by example, you know, people want to rise to that standard. I think that's really, really important. “

The Three Focus Areas When Scaling Your Business

Norman also revealed the three focus areas which are key to his team’s success. You will hear him discuss the importance of finding top clients and why it matters as much as finding top candidates. He also shared how to attract the right talent when it comes to internal recruitment and the value of delivering the best training, coaching, and mentoring. Lastly, we talked about being strategic when allocating assignments to your team members and ensuring that you are making great matches for your clients.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Norman Volsky Bio and Contact Info

Norman is a Managing Partner at DRI (2011-Present). Norm built the Digital Health team at DRI beginning in 2017 and his 10-person team has scaled it to over $6M in revenue in 2022. The Pinnacle Society welcomed Norm as a member in 2021. Along w/ the rest of the DRI Managing Partners, DRI merged w/ Kaye Bassman and Sanford Rose Associates in 2022 to form Starfish Partners. Norm spoke at the SRA Conference in 2022 (the topic was Best Practices working w/ Venture Capital backed companies) and will be speaking on the Pinnacle Society Panel at NAPS in 2023.

• Norman on LinkedIn
• Direct Recruiters Inc. website link
• Listen to the Digital Health Heavy Weights Podcast
• The Pinnacle Society website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Mike Silverstein on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Top billers typically have one or more “cornerstone clients.” These key accounts are ones you can build your business on because they use you exclusively and give you lots of repeat business.

My special guest, Katherine Jerard, is someone who’s mastered the art of client development. What’s fascinating about Katherine’s story is that she’s a second-generation recruiter. She remembers the first day her father opened a recruiting firm. She actually got to skip school at the age of 12 to help set up the office computers.

Katherine later rejoined her father's search firm, FPC Portland in 2015 as an executive recruiter, and opened an FPC office in Lake Oswego, Washington. During her tenure within the FPC franchise network, Katherine was the five-time winner of FPC's “Top Recruiter” Award.

In this episode, Katherine shares the skillset and mindset that enabled her to become a top producer and successful business owner. She reveals some killer strategies for winning and developing clients, plus how she transitioned from contingency to 100% engaged search.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:06] How Katherine’s father influenced her career path as a recruiter and owner.
• [06:13] Was it easier or harder working in a family recruitment business?
• [11:30] Success factors to becoming a five-time top recruiter in the FPC network. (client-side development, grind, and hustle)
• [16:48] Strategies for identifying, breaking into, and caring for the correct accounts.
• [21:14] Pitching a relationship instead of a transaction in a recruitment call.
• [25:16] Katherine shares her process for developing client relationships.
• [32:12] How commitment plays a big part in Katherine’s success.
• [33:24] Transitioning from being a top recruiter to launching her own firm - Katherine shares her story.
• [37:29] Discussion and thought process on engaged versus contingent search.
• [45:49] Creating your “irresistible offer” - most recruiters don’t understand this!
• [49:55] Hiring and building your business - how Katherine started growing her team.
• [58:06] Katherine reveals her selling style.

How to Become a Top Recruiter: Hustle, Grind and Focus on Client Development

During her tenure at FPC, Katherine was the five-time winner of FPC’s top recruiter award. What’s her secret?

According to Katherine, “The baseline is you gotta hustle and you gotta grind. And most people do not want to work that hard.” But of course, that can't be all there is to it because I also have seen recruiters work really hard but still not get the same results that Katherine does.

She then revealed the differentiator: “I would say it's been really connecting and developing the client side.” Katherine is aware of the importance of client development. She shared her strategies for finding the right account, landing that business, and caring for the relationship. This strategy leads to her getting referrals which leads to more businesses and clients.

Katherine also gave tips on how to pitch without being too salesy, how to establish relationships during a recruitment call instead of being purely transactional, and her process for developing those accounts.

Transitioning From Contingency to an Engaged Search

The most exciting part of Katherine’s story is how she recently launched her own recruitment firm, Elray Search. They officially launched on April 1 of this year, and in their first quarter they’ve taken off like a rocket ship, which is fitting since they specialize in aerospace and defence.

One of the key shifts that Katherine made when she started on her own is that she hasn’t accepted any contingent searches since their launch. How does she pitch this engaged search to her clients? Here’s some of her verbiage:

• “We ask for ten grand to kick things off.”
• “What you can expect from me is weekly update calls. We do a video chat, we'll record them so I can share them with my team as well.”
• “Hey, I'm gonna do your first interview for you. Just tell me what questions you want me to ask. You can watch it on video when you're on the airplane.”
• “If you're not happy with what we're doing after three weeks, I'll give you your ten grand back.”

Katherine added, “Guess how many have asked for it (the $10k deposit) back? Zero!”

Katherine also discussed how she started to build her team - having just hired their third member very recently, and how it helped her be free from the 360 model.

Pitching it the Right Way

I love Katherine’s mindset when it comes to pitching: “So the whole like the premise is, nobody likes a hard sell anymore. And this is totally contradictory to what we, you know, how it was taught 20 years ago, where you're trying to say, ‘Hey, can I accept on your behalf?’ That doesn't work anymore.”

For Katherine, it is all about attraction rather than promotion. By asking the right questions, she is able to nudge a candidate to start talking and building a relationship, which eventually leads to successful placements. Katherine added, “I tell them, ‘Hey, I'm never gonna try to talk you into something. At the end of the day, you're always gonna do what's best for you and your family, and everybody should understand that. And if they don't, they don't have the right intentions’.”

Katherine shared so many golden nuggets, but that little script was my absolute favourite. Could the same approach be effective for you and your recruiters?

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Katherine Jerald Bio and Contact Info

Katherine is a second-generation recruiter. She remembered the first day her father opened a recruiting firm; she got to skip school at the age of 12 to set up office computers.

She received her bachelor’s in business from the University of Oregon in 2004 and her MBA in finance from Washington State University in 2015.

She rejoined her father’s search firm, FPC Portland, in 2015 as an executive recruiter and opened an FPC office in Lake Chelan, Washington. She specializes in defense, satellite, and aerospace technologies. During her tenure at FPC, she was the five-time winner of FPC’s Top Recruiter award.

In 2022, Katherine launched Elray Search, LLC, a firm that is committed to solving the biggest talent needs of middle market clients in the aerospace, satellite, and defense firm.

Katherine is a member of the Pinnacle Society.

She was a 2022 Pinnacle Conference Speaker and a 2022 Whitman Partners Conference Speaker. She is also an active member of SSPI (Space & Satellite Professionals International) and Leading Ladies of Aerospace.

• Katherine on LinkedIn
• Elray Search website link
• Elray Search on LinkedIn
• The Pinnacle Society website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Seven Ways to Get New Clients Fast Ebook
• $100M Offers: How To Make Offers So Good People Feel Stupid Saying No, by Alex Hormozi
• Crelate
• Jon Bartos on LinkedIn
• Josh Braun on LinkedIn
• Allan Fisher on LinkedIn
• Wes Ashworth on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#166 How to Bill $1,000,000 For Ten Years Straight and Grow a Successful Team, with Allan Fisher * TRR#132 How to Break Out of a Slump and Bill an Amazing $420k in 5 Months, with Wes Ashworth

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Starting a recruitment agency is hard. Being a great recruiter is no guarantee you’ll be a successful business owner. There are thousands of competent, hard working recruiters who struggle when they go out on their own.

That’s why my next guest, Mike Williams, is so remarkable. In his first 12 months, he billed $900,000. He’s now up to $1,200,000 since he started the business 15 months ago.

Mike is the founder and President of Carnegie Partners, based in Charlotte, North Carolina. He’s a manufacturing and engineering recruitment specialist. I’m honored to count Mike among our clients here at Recruitment Coach.

You’ll enjoy hearing Mike’s journey because he reveals some of the secrets to his success while being honest about the moments of self-doubt that we can all relate to.

One of the things Mike has mastered is creating original content on LinkedIn as a key part of his business development strategy. In this interview, Mike shares how to generate content ideas and posts consistently on LinkedIn. Plus we discuss the importance of posting videos to engage with your target audience.

Mike has an impressive track record as a top producer. In his first 5 years in agency recruitment, he won "Perm Rookie of the Year" plus President’s Club 5 years in a row. He then founded Carnegie Search in February 2022.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:15] How Mike got into recruiting and started his own business.
• [06:30] Why recruitment leaders must create a defined career path for their team members.
• [08:35] Mike’s thoughts on how to retain your top recruiters.
• [11:37] From top recruiter to successful recruitment entrepreneur: two key success factors in hitting the ground running.
• [16:06] Building relationships by meeting clients in person and visiting manufacturing companies.
• [25:22] How digital marketing, social media, and LinkedIn played a critical role in Mike’s success.
• [28:33] Mike shares his LinkedIn strategy - how it helped him win business and the barriers he had to overcome.
• [35:35] How to overcome fear when posting content online.
• [41:24] How to generate ideas and create content consistently.
• [49:05] Why you should consider posting videos on Linkedin.
• [51:18] Mike revealed the roadblocks he encountered and his big learnings to date.

Hitting the Ground Running - Making a Successful Transition from a Recruiter to a Recruitment Business Owner

How was Mike able to hit the ground running so fast in his transition from a top recruiter to a recruitment business owner? “I think the biggest thing was a little more strategic, which was the niche that we defined … and the geographical area where I decided to do it.”

Mike’s approach was very analytical, studying the industry trends and looking at the cities with the highest growth. This research even influenced where they decided to live. He explained, “I knew that I liked working locally and meeting the companies and the candidates in person because I felt like it gave just a leg up on the rapport and relationship building.” I think this was a smart move. When I was a recruiter running a desk, we always insisted on visiting our clients in person. Aside from building rapport, as Mike also mentioned, meeting up with clients is a “good litmus test of how serious they are about working with you.”

Posting on LinkedIn to Build Your Brand and Develop New Business

Mike is good at cold calling and routinely makes cold calls to both clients and candidates. However, he also leverages LinkedIn as a key component of his business development strategy.

Mike is a firm believer that you can win clients through LinkedIn. You will hear an amazing story about how Mike received an inbound enquiry from a VP of HR at a billion-dollar company because of a story he posted on LinkedIn. That senior executive became a client and gave Mike a lot of repeat business, which might never have happened without that LinkedIn post.

Mike also shared how consistent posting helps build a “continued relationship” with potential leads that you may have a cold called before. Here are things that you will find insightful in this section of the episode:

• Why consistent posting can win your clients in the long run.
• Overcoming fear and imposter syndrome when posting LinkedIn content.
• How to generate ideas for your LinkedIn content.

Why You Need to Post Videos on LinkedIn

What I also admire about Mike’s LinkedIn strategy is how he is not shying away from posting videos. What is his thought process in creating video content? He shared two things:

1. There are “certain topics that don't lend themselves all that well to just text form” and can be best shared with a video.
2. Building digital rapport. Mike puts it this way, “Well, I want to get people to get to know me. So if you want to get people to get to know you, do you think that they're gonna get to know you and feel like they know you better from something that you write or from seeing you talk and looking at you visually? Obviously, visually is better.”

When was the last time that you created and posted a video on LinkedIn? If you want differentiation, increased engagement, and to demonstrate expertise, posting a video is something you can start. In our coaching group, sharing ideas and best practices for posting video content is a recurring discussion topic.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Mike Williams Bio and Contact Info

A former top biller for a publicly traded recruitment firm, Mike successfully built a direct hire practice from scratch, earning Rookie of the Year and Presidents Club honors. He was a perennial top 5 producer nationwide, competing in a group of hundreds of recruiters each year.

An avid networker, passionate career counselor, religious Wall Street Journal reader, and overall headhunting evangelist, Mike has spent years building the skillsets to successfully attract top talent.

Mike founded Carnegie Partners with the vision of a search firm that would have the following differentiators. A Democratized Structure – An employee-owned company where everyone is eligible for equity partnership. A Culture of Success: Core Values of Continuous Self Improvement and a Determination to Succeed. World Class Service: A client-centric approach that aims to fully understand our clients and bring their stories to our candidates.

• Mike on LinkedIn
• Carnegie Partners website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• 25 Best Performing LinkedIn Posts
• Rich Rosen on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#67 Think Like a Big Biller: How to Get Repeat Business and Referrals, with Rich Rosen

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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Imagine growing your revenue by €100,000,000 in less than 3 years!

How is this possible?

In this interview, my special guest Gerard Koolen explains how he and his business partners at Lugera were able to increase revenue from €130M in 2020 to €234M by 2022.

You’ll discover the critical success factors, which include: leveraging technology - and even developing their own software, constant improvement through training and development, and empowering employees to make decisions.

What’s even more remarkable is that Lugara’s office in Ukraine had their best performance ever in the midst of a war and they’re currently hiring 26 more recruiters.

Gerard is the Group Managing Partner of Lugera, a multinational recruiting and staffing agency. Gerard started Lugera in Slovakia in 1996 and is now operating in 11 countries in 30 offices with 700 internal staff and 15,000 temps. In fact they’re the biggest independent staffing country in Central and Eastern Europe. In 2022, Herard partnered with James Caan to create Recruitment Entrepreneur CEE.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:30] Lugera has grown by €100,000,000 in the last three years.
• [07:30] True resilience - how the Ukraine office has continued growing despite the war.
• [18:57] Increasing revenue through training and coaching.
• [25:45] The benefits and challenges of training and coaching remotely.
• [27:36] Gerard shares how they adapt and leverage technology.
• [34:30] New Talent Base (NTB) - how their custom ATS builds networks automatically.
• [40:51] How technology is a key factor in Lugera’s success.
• [44:32] With 700 employees, Gerard must empower people to make decisions.
• [46:49] Why Gerard opted to invest and build their own recruitment platform.
• [54:23] NTB’s lead generation feature.
• [58:48] Partnering with James Caan and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

True Resilience: How Lugera’s Ukraine Office Achieved Record Breaking Performance

The most remarkable part of the interview was when Gerard shared the story of his office in Ukraine and what they have achieved in spite of the invasion by Russia.

“This has to be for us a challenge to grow our business. We said to each other when the going gets tough, the tough get going, and let us see what we can do. A miracle happened, and last year was our best year so far in Ukraine. Can you imagine?” This is how Gerard described it: “The team even when there was a bombing in Kiev they were sitting in bomb shelters with internet and they are still working.”

It’s hard to imagine a more challenging scenario. How did Gerard ensure the well-being of his team members? He explains how they relocated their team to Bucharest. Gerard’s business partner in Ukraine did a tremendous job organizing the logistics, from booking hotels to hiring buses to ensure the safety of their team.

People lost their houses and there was a lot of panic and chaos, but luckily all their team members were safely relocated to Bucharest. They did not waste any time and immediately went to work. Their mindset and camaraderie were incredible.

Due to the invasion, thousands of recruitment agencies in Ukraine closed down. At the same, thousands of vacancies opened up, especially in factories. That is why Gerard’s team had to step up and support their market, despite a very challenging environment. They were able to achieve their best year so far and have continued growing. They’re even in the process of hiring 26 more recruiters in their Ukraine operations. Truly an inspiring story of resilient recruiters!

Increasing Revenue Through Coaching and Training

Since I last talked with Gerard three years ago, his firm has grown by acquisition, but also organically.

Gerard believes that growing rapidly is the most dangerous period for an agency. "Usually quality goes down, you have to pay a lot of salaries but you get your money later.” To manage this risk, they put emphasis on training and coaching their existing people.

He elaborated on how they structured their coaching and training. Every country has an extensive 2-week onboarding program, plus ongoing training for the whole company including weekly webinars.

We discussed the benefits and challenges of training people remotely, and agreed that in many ways it’s easier to train remotely versus in a classroom setting. Gerard suggested mixing up the groups so that people from different teams and countries have the opportunity to meet and learn from each other.

Enhancing the Recruitment Process by Leveraging Technology

Another key success factor for Lugera’s rapid growth is that they embrace and leverage technology. He shared how they are launching new software that focuses on recruitment automation and AI. Gerard knows the value of technology and how it has impacted their business drastically. This is why he is investing so much in developing tools and software that truly fit the needs of recruitment businesses. You will hear about their Automatic Network Builder embedded in their New Talent Base software.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Gerard Koolen Bio and Contact Info

Gerard is the owner of Lugera, a multinational recruiting and staffing agency. Gerard started Lugera in Slovakia in 1996 and is now operating in 11 countries from 30 offices with 700 internal staff and 15,000 temps. Lugera is focused on Permanent Staffing, Temporary Staffing, Payroll & Outsourcing. Gerard is crazy about helping as many people as possible get a better job. He is help driven, he thinks that innovation is key and is a front-runner in innovative HR technology.

• Gerard on LinkedIn
• Gerard on Facebook
• Gerard’s blog link
• Lugera website link
• Lugera on Youtube
• STAA website link

If you are interested to be a partner in using STAA, get a 50% discount for listeners from the podcast by emailing gerard.koolen@lugera.com and mentioning Mark Whitby.

People and Resources Mentioned

• James Caan on LinkedIn
• Bullhorn
• Recruitment Entrepreneur

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#25 How to Build a €130M Staffing Business in Emerging Markets, with Gerard Koolen

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Meaningful relationships are foundational to success in recruitment. The challenge is that building a network and earning trust takes time. For many recruiters, it can take years to become established in their market niche.

What if there was a way to speed up this process and achieve faster results?

My special guest, Steven Li, has discovered a way to build relationships at scale by organizing meet-ups in his sector. Steven’s strategy has enabled him to progress from a rookie recruiter at Robert Half to the Top Biller in APAC within three years.

Hosting events isn’t a new concept, but Steven has really taken this strategy to the next level. In fact, Steven is renowned for his cybersecurity events in Tokyo and they’ve become so popular that he holds a lottery to determine who gets to attend.

In this episode, Steven shares his learnings and best practices on how to organize events that add value to his sector. He revealed his process for running successful meet-ups, the mistakes he’s made and insights gleaned along the way.

Steven is a Senior Division Director at Robert Half Japan and specializes in Cyber Security recruiting. In 2022, Steven was recognized as the top biller across APAC, as well as managing the number one perm team.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:30] From financial services to recruiting - Steven shares his story.
• [09:00] Why “simple does not always mean easy” and how Steven turned things around after his initial struggles as a recruiter.
• [12:21] Fast-tracking his career to becoming a top biller in just three years.
• [21:06] Adding value - how Steven organizes events for the cybersecurity community.
• [32:14] Leveraging LinkedIn to make your meet-up a success.
• [40:13] Things to do (and not do) when hosting events.
• [47:01] Steven talks about leadership and innovation.
• [51:00] Making the transition from top producer to billing manager.
• [58:38] Having a mission that goes beyond you as an individual.

Building Relationships at Scale by Organizing Meet-Up Events

Steven is a Gen Y recruiter who believes in the value of working smart. In 2019, he quit his job in the Financial Markets and moved to Tokyo to become a recruiter. He thought it was going to be easy but when the pandemic came in 2020, his resilience was tested which drove him to work smarter.

Steven took inspiration from Greg Savage’s advice on branding and becoming a micro-celebrity in your marketplace. He connected this to the idea of building relationships at scale in recruitment, and that is when they started doing these meet-up events.

He shared his learnings on hosting events and how to make the most of them. Here are some takeaways that we covered:

• How he hosts invite-only events to build a safer community for cybersecurity experts.
• How they were able to hold these events in prestigious locations such as Google, Microsoft, and even the British Embassy.
• Learning from past mistakes, especially on the logistics.
• Things to watch out for - such as ensuring there’s no selling or pitching at the event.

How did this benefit Steven and Rober Half? He became the APAC top-biller in 2022, which was only his third year in recruitment. Plus, Steven’s strategy has now been adopted by other divisions. Robert Half Japan is now hosting community meetup events for Cyber Security, Data, Developers, Consulting, and Executive Search

Having a Clear Mission That Goes Beyond You

Steven has a “mission that goes beyond himself,” which is to build a stronger cybersecurity community in Japan, by giving people the platform to share the best ideas and thoughts. This is something that I also firmly believe: if you have a clear mission, that is bigger than you or your company goals but is one that everyone in your market can get behind, then people will go out of their way to help you.

Having this clarity on your “WHY” and purpose, and how you are able to connect it to how you will add value to your community is a vital key driver to success. Like so many of our guests, successful recruiters and recruitment business owners find ways to add value to their community. Hearing Steven’s story on how he is able to tie up his marketing with his mission can inspire a lot in our industry to do the same.

Developing Leadership Skills

Steven is still ‘young’ as a recruiter, but what I also admire about him is how he takes ownership of his development. Top billers don’t necessarily make good managers. Steven has fast-tracked his career because he’s taking responsibility for his own development, proactively seeking to refine his leadership skills through books, mentorship, and coaching.

This is true with tenured and seasoned recruitment business leaders that I know - they never stop learning and developing. Leadership is a lifelong journey, and there is always room for growth and improvement, regardless of experience.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Steven Li Bio and Contact Info

Steven is the Senior Division Director at Robert Half Japan specializing in cybersecurity Recruiting. In 2022, Steven was recognized as the top biller across APAC, affirming his position as a leader in the field. With a passion for creating a safer cybersecurity community in Japan, Steven is renowned for his cybersecurity events. These events, hosted at prestigious venues such as Microsoft, Google, The British Embassy, and Deloitte unite industry professionals to share knowledge and insights. Prior to his successful recruitment career, Steven gained valuable experience in Market Risk oversight within the Financial Markets Sector in Australia.

• Steven on LinkedIn
• Cyber Risk Meetup website link
• Cyber Risk Meetup on YouTube
• Steven on Twitter @StevenLi1650
• Robert Half website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Multipliers: How the Best Leaders Make Everyone Smarter, by Liz Wiseman
• The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari, by Robin Sharma

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#64 The Recruiter Roadmap to Recovery: How to Thrive in a Post-Pandemic World, with Greg Savage

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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What are the factors that drive short-term results while ensuring the long term success of your recruitment business?

If you have ambitions to grow your recruitment agency, you’ll enjoy my conversation with Kevin Burch the CEO and co-founder of Questpro Consultants. Since they opened in 1996, Questpro has grown to a team of 35 people providing four service offerings: temp, retained/contingency, executive search, and college graduate placement.

In this episode, Kevin shares three of the secrets that have contributed to sustainable growth for the long run:

1. Fostering a culture of achievement and empathy
2. Diversifying revenue streams
3. The mindset of embracing technology and staying relevant

QuestPro, a staffing and recruiting firm based in Dallas, Texas specializing in the insurance and risk management industry nationwide.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:02] Kevin shares his perspective on collaborating, sharing ideas, and being in a community with competitors.
• [08:20] How Kevin got into recruiting.
• [12:42] Staff retention - How QuestPro’s staff tenure is way above average.
• [21:28] Getting rid of toxic people to protect your business culture.
• [27:09] The role that caring and empathy play in your business.
• [34:37] How Questpro diversifies its revenue streams.
• [42:16] Giving back to the insurance industry with their QGrad Division
• [50:56] Embracing technology to evolve and stay at the forefront.

Protecting Your Business Culture From Toxic People

Over the last 25 years, Kevin has built a team of 35 people which is already an achievement on its own. But the thing that stood out to me is how he is able to retain these talents. He has 3 or 4 people with a tenure of 20 years, several more in the 10-15 range, and some between 5-10 years. Out of his 35 team members, only 11 are under the 2-year tenure. If there is a key factor contributing to this phenomenal achievement, it is Questpro’s working culture. Kevin shared how they celebrate little things and big things, initiate fun contests, and reward and recognize performers. These engagement activities in Questpro are actually initiatives from the top management. For Kevin, the culture that they have is a culture not only of achievement but also of caring and empathy.

Kevin also discussed the importance of protecting their culture by letting go of toxic members that can disrupt team dynamics. He shared their story where they had to let go of large producers for the greater good of the group. Despite being a small company at the time, he was willing to let go of a big revenue contributor for the well-being of others. You will hear how making this move led to their company hitting their best revenues the following year that they made that decision.

Diversify Your Revenue Streams

Kevin has a tremendous experience with permanent, retained, contingency, and contract staffing. He shared a very interesting mix in his business that includes 50-50 on temp and permanent (direct hire). They have four service offerings, namely:

Questpro – Contingency and Retained Search

QTemps – Temporary and Temp-to-Hire Contract Staffing as well as Payroll Services

QGrads – Internships, Entry-Level, and College Graduate Placement

QExecs – Executive Placement through Seasoned Contract Executives

As Kevin said, “The theory that if you are a temp company you surely can’t be a permanent staffing partner, or you can’t be a retained partner is not true.” They even offer a “Grad Division” which helps keep the industry they serve full of fresh talent.

For recruitment business owners, the idea of diversifying your revenue stream is critical for success. If you are currently doing only direct hire or perm placements, for example, consider adding recurring revenue streams such as temporary, contract, or interim.

Keep on Learning and Embracing Technology

Another takeaway from this episode is how Kevin and his team embrace technology. Being a recruiter for more than two decades, Kevin finds the last few years have been interesting and they have seen a big flip in how business is done. We discussed how they are staying at the forefront of their market, such as:

• Using videos when interacting with clients and candidates
• Best practices for using text messaging effectively in their search process
• Discussion of available tech tools and platforms that they use in their business

For Kevin, re-learning and embracing technology is an advantage that contributes to his longevity in the industry.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Kevin Burch Bio and Contact Info

Kevin co-founded Questpro Consultants in August 1996. Kevin went from the next great sportscaster and play-by-play man to sitting behind a desk and dialing for dollars! Now 25 Years later, he can safely say that it is the best decision he ever made. From coast to coast, Kevin and his team match top-notch insurance talent with the absolute best Insurance Carriers, Brokers, TPA, and more.

When he’s not playing KOAR (King of All Recruiters), Kevin is at home with his lovely wife, Lauren, and three sons, that continue to challenge and keep him young: Parker, Owen, and Taylor. Kevin is also addicted and frustrated all at once by golf but loves the game.

• Kevin on LinkedIn
• Questpro website link
• Questpro on Facebook
• Questpro on YouTube
• Questpro on Twitter @Questpro_

People and Resources Mentioned

• Gail Audibert on LinkedIn
• Simon Lafosse on LinkedIn
• Bullhorn
• TextUs
• Hinterview

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#116 How Treating People Well Delivers 30% Annual Revenue Growth for 15 Years, with Simon La Fosse * TRR#153 Meet The Recruiter Who Survived And Thrived Through Four Recessions, with Gail Audibert * TRR #171 4 Essential Skills that All Recruitment Business Owners Need to Be Successful, with Chris DiNaso

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What are the biggest trends that affect the future of agency recruitment? Are you positioned for success in the rapidly evolving world of work?

With advances in Open AI and the growing popularity of remote work and the gig economy, the recruitment industry is set for a major transformation in the next 5-10 years. This shift might cause fear and uncertainty among recruiters, however if you’re aware of the trends, remain agile and are willing to adapt, you can capitalize on the tremendous new opportunities that will be created.

Join us in this episode with special guest, Rob Green, as we explore the future of agency recruitment amidst the rapidly changing technological landscape. Rob reveals his insights based on extensive research and shares the specific steps his company is taking to stay relevant.

Rob Green is the CEO and Founder of The GRM Group, a holding company that combines leading recruitment, research, recruitment tech, and management consulting brands, all servicing the global legal industry. With 20 years of experience in the recruitment industry and having placed lawyers in 40 countries, Rob brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the discussion.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:05] Why and how Rob’s business model has evolved since we last spoke.
• [08:00] How skill matching platforms will change the recruitment industry.
• [14:57] Why Rob created a research company, GRM Intelligence.
• [26:45] The future of the recruitment industry.
• [29:40] Core trends that are changing the way that we work.
• [40:30] How should you adapt your recruitment business to stay relevant?
• [47:33] Preparing for the future; why Rob is investing in Umbiie.

The Three Meta Trends That Are Changing the Recruitment Industry

Recruiters and recruitment business owners are always interested to know how technology such as Opan AI will affect the industry. You’ll enjoy hearing Rob’s fascinating insights about the future of work, based on the research report that he commissioned. His research team identified three trends that will transform the way people work and how companies recruit:

• The Sharing Economy / Gig Economy
• Global Talent Pools / Distributed Teams
• The Skillset Revolution

Rob urged the listeners to zoom out from the world of recruitment for a minute and realize how the world is changing based on the above three meta trends. We also discussed the growing “gig economy,” and how talents prefer to work from anywhere in the world and would prefer project-based instead of full-time. If you fear that AI will take a majority of jobs in the future, that is not the crazy part. Rob cited a report by Dell Technologies which it states that “80% of all the jobs in the next decade that we'll all be working in haven't even been invented yet.”

What does it mean for you as a recruiter or a recruitment business owner? As Rob very well puts it, “There's going to be a whole new way of recruiting, a whole new skill set of recruiting. And we can prepare for this.”

Leveraging Skill-Matching Platforms for Recruitment

Rob dived into how they are adapting to the trends of the shared economy and shared data by means of technology. They are using the platform StiiNT.iT (Stint It) - to simplify their process and maximize potential. The platform is a private-labelled recruitment technology where “Professionals across the world are vetted and skills verified creating anonymous profiles. These profiles will be searchable and accessible, whether it sits on someone else’s platform or your own – building a collaborative talent pool, ensuring 100% matches, and removing unconscious biases.”

Rob’s team has white-labeled the Stint It platform to create Umbiie (umbiie.com), a global skills-matching platform for legal professionals. It’s not a perfect comparison, but this is the equivalent of Bumble for recruiting - the idea is that candidates choose which employers can unlock their profile.

Rob shared how they deal with data privacy and how the platform can be monetized. As he stated, “This is really not a pitch because I don't get anything out of this. This is just, do you wanna prepare for the future? Do you believe that there's going to be pressure on contingency recruitment? If you do, there is a solution out there.”

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Rob Green Bio and Contact Info

With two decades’ experience in the recruitment industry, Rob has recruited lawyers in 40 countries, working with firms and companies from the biggest in DLA Piper, Bank of America, Facebook, Alibaba, and such like, to small one-person law firms, looking to double in size. Rob launched his career with the leading financial services agency, Badenoch & Clark, in London. Following his relocation to the Cayman Islands in 2005, he joined one of the Caribbean’s top recruitment companies, CML, to establish the region’s leading legal recruitment provider. In 2009, Rob became a partner in the business and moved to Hong Kong to grow the business and become one of the top consultancies in Asia. He took full ownership of the Hong Kong branch and rebranded as GRM Search in 2013, winning 15 industry awards in 8 years and working with some of the most coveted legal firms, MNCs, and financial institutions in the world. Enticed by the link between Africa and Asia, Rob opened GRM Search’s first office in South Africa in Johannesburg in 2014. He moved with his family to settle in Cape Town and spearhead the growth of the business into the African continent in 2017. GRM has had notable successes in Asia, Africa, and Australia, with some failures along the way to keep him humble. Rob regularly shares his views on the legal job market with industry publications, business radio shows, HR seminars, and law graduates at HKU, Stellenbosch University, and UWC. He is renowned for his global outlook, experience, legal market knowledge, and down-to-earth approach. In his spare time, Rob is the proud founder and chairman of South Africa’s first soccer program for special needs children (GPS Vikings FC) and a part-time boxing ring announcer as well as a doting father and husband.

• Rob on LinkedIn
• Rob on Instagram
• GRM Search website link
• GRM Intelligence website link
• GRM Group on YouTube
• Umbiie website link
• Rob’s Podcast, Legal Unicorns

People and Resources Mentioned

• Stiint It website link
• The Three Meta Trends - Revolutionizing the Way We Work
• Why Umbiie - Revolutionizing the Legal Industry
• Korn Ferry Article: 2030: The Very Human Future Of Work
• Korn Ferry Article: The $8.5 Trillion Talent Shortage
• Article on Dell Report: 85% of Jobs that will exist in 2030 haven't been invented yet
• Napoleon Hill: Think and Grow Rich

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#96 The Benefits and Challenges of Expanding Your Recruitment Business Overseas

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Do you want to attract new clients and grow your recruitment practice, regardless of market conditions?

In this episode, you’ll hear me being interviewed by Tom Burkinshaw, the Group Marketing Director at Recruitment Entrepreneur, the world’s leading investor in recruitment start-ups and scale-ups. James Caan’s team invited me to London to record an in-person interview for The Recruitment Entrepreneur Podcast.

You’ll learn how to leverage content marketing to build your brand, attract more of your ideal clients, and be treated as a trusted advisor. In particular, Tom grills me about the secrets of starting and growing a successful podcast. I also share our Expert Interview Strategy, which enables you to become a thought leader in your industry, produce high-quality content consistently and develop new business at the same time.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:56] Why I started The Resilient Recruiter podcast.
• [03:16] Overcoming imposter syndrome to become a thought leader in your industry.
• [04:10] How I got started in recruitment.
• [07:27] Starting my coaching business was a “combination of fear and excitement.”
• [10:42] The differences between being self-employed and being a true entrepreneur.
• [12:53] Launching The Resilient Recruiter podcast.
• [15:37] How I stay at the forefront of digital marketing strategies and automation tools.
• [17:22] The number one key to having a successful podcast.
• [18:58] How recruitment companies can stand out from the competition.
• [24:34] The benefits of learning and development for business owners and their teams; including people who are already top billers.
• [27:50] What’s next for Recruitment Coach and The Resilient Recruiter in 2023?
• [30:47] The value of being consistent in marketing.

Why I Transitioned From Recruiting to Coaching Recruiters

Tom asked me a question I often get asked, “why did you become a coach instead of continuing as a recruitment consultant?”

I shared the story of how I got started in the recruiting industry, experiencing the same struggles and challenges that a lot of recruiters can relate to. Despite working incredibly hard, I was only an average biller, hitting my sales targets but stuck around the middle of the leader board. Being quite money motivated at the time, I wasn’t satisfied with my performance, so I hired a coach to help me maximize my results. He helped me to double my billings in 90 days and I quickly become the top-producer in my team of 8 and climbed to the top 15% of 200 recruiters.

This was such a life-changing experience that it inspired me to become a coach myself, which I consider to be my true calling. Since launching Recruitment Coach in 2001, I’ve helped more than 10,000 recruiters in 34 countries to maximize performance and increase their billings.

In the course of the interview, I also revealed how the ‘08 recession was a devastating experience. I shared how I came back from the brink of bankruptcy to turn things around by leveraging content marketing.

We also discussed the difference between being self-employed from being a true entrepreneur. After being a solopreneur for many years, I’m finally scaling my business. We discussed the benefits of building a team and that it’s often fear and limiting beliefs that hold us back from growing our business.

How to Grow a Successful Podcast

The Resilient Recruiter podcast will exceed 200+ episodes this year. I’m so happy that this podcast has reached recruiters across the globe with more than 150,000 downloads. One of the reasons I started the podcast is that I love learning and sharing ideas with like-minded people. I get so much value, personally, from interviewing successful recruiters and recruitment business owners that I would do this even if there was no direct benefit to my business.

Because my podcast has been so successful, recruiters started asking us for help to launch their own podcast. So we created an online course for our coaching clients and in the last few months, we’ve helped multiple recruitment and executive search firm owners to start a podcast. One of our clients won a new client before even launching, simply by inviting them to be a guest on her show! The benefit is that our clients can learn from all the mistakes we’ve made over the last 3 years. Plus, we have a 38-step process for producing, publishing and promoting the podcast so our clients have a blueprint to follow. In this conversation with Tom, I revealed a few of the best practices for running a successful podcast. The number one key is to keep working on it and never give up.

How Recruiters Can Build Their Brand with Content Marketing

Tom and I discussed how imposter syndrome is one of the biggest barriers to becoming a thought leader. Content marketing requires recruiters to have confidence in their own market knowledge and believe in the value their own insights can bring to their audience. We talked about the benefit of delivering value-adding content to your network in terms of establishing credibility and trust within the community of your potential clients and candidates.

Mark elaborated on how recruitment business owners can do this with the expert interview strategy. This strategy works for podcasts, videos and even in written article format. You will hear Mark explain how this strategy combines business development with inbound marketing. You will also learn how this can be a differentiator for your recruitment business when it comes to creating high-quality, industry specific content.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

People and Resources Mentioned

• Tom Burkinshaw on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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When you run your own business, you wear many hats and need to be competent across a number of areas. But which skills make the biggest difference to your success?

In this episode, my special guest Chris Dinaso and I discuss the top 4 skills that are absolutely fundamental to building a profitable recruitment business. We also delve into Chris’s philosophy of “always doing the right thing” which is key to sustainable, long-term success.

It will come as no surprise that selling skills are crucial for recruitment businesses to grow and succeed in a competitive market. A critical component of this is establishing relationships with potential candidates and clients, which starts with an effective elevator pitch.

Chris will be sharing his best practices for selling and business development in running his own recruitment practice. You will hear how he structures his ‘Million-Dollar Paragraph’ and how he effectively reaches out to potential candidates by calling them at their work number.

Chris has been in the recruiting industry for almost three decades and has founded Plumbline Staffing Solutions, a boutique recruitment firm focusing on insurance and general staffing solutions, with offices in Chicago, Illinois, and Austin, Texas.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:45] Sink or Swim - Chris started his staffing career by being thrown into the deep end
• [07:30] Why Chris took a career change and how it influenced his way of working as a recruitment business owner.
• [12:00] “Doing the right thing” is a recruitment business differentiator.
• [22:38] Chris talks about the challenges of getting his company off the ground.
• [33:00] Discussion about Chris’ approach to business development.
• [43:49] The Million-Dollar Paragraph.
• [46:30] Why you should consider calling potential candidates at work.

Doing the Right Thing is a Differentiator

Chris shared an interesting principle as a success contributor: his mindset of always doing the right thing. Influenced by his faith and his experience in his ministry, his aim is to always provide a transcendent experience to his candidates and clients. As he explained, “I want every interaction I have with clients and candidates, I want that to extend beyond just the limits of ordinary experience.”

We discussed the perspective of having integrity, building character, and treating people right in the world of recruiting should be a basic expectation. However, Chris is regular told that he’s different from other recruiters. Chris finds this surprising because, in his view, he didn’t do anything special - he just did the right thing. Which suggests that unfortunately many people don’t have a positive experience of dealing with recruiters.

Although Chris’ reason for doing the right thing isn’t money motivated, the outcome is that it is good for business. I am sure this will resonate with a lot of our listeners - if there is one differentiator for successful recruiters or business owners, it will always come down to how they have treated their clients and candidates.

The Best Way to Sell is to Not Sell

A key strength of Chris is his selling skills, which is one of the reasons he got into the recruiting business way back in 1995. When I asked him about business development, his no-nonsense approach is to sell by not selling. You will hear how Chris starts his conversation with potential clients and candidates, focused on building trust and with the intention of building relationships. I find it really interesting, as customers just don’t respond to a hard sell approach. Coming across too aggressive can backfire. Here are the two things that Chris and I discussed on this topic:

• Structuring and positioning Chris’ “Million-Dollar” elevator pitch.
• Controversially, why Chris believes you should call candidates at their work number.

Four Essential Skills for Starting and Scaling a Recruitment Business

Chris was a successful salesperson and manager prior to setting up his own recruitment firm. I was keen to understand how he applied those skills to grow his own business. “When you start a business, you have to learn how to do everything,” was how Chirs described it.

If you are a recruiter listening and aiming to start your own business, these are four must-haves skills that Chris shared:

• Selling skills
• Copywriting
• Financial Management
• Training & Coaching

To understand why those four skills in particular are the most important, be sure to listen to the full episode.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Chris DiNaso Bio and Contact Info

Chris is the founder of Plumbline Staffing Solutions, with offices in both Austin and Chicago. Chris started in the recruiting industry in 1995 as an Account Executive. Since then he’s worked for small and large staffing companies, becoming a top-producing salesperson and manager prior to launching his own recruitment business in 2013. Chris is also on the Board of Directors for the National Insurance Recruiters Association.

• Chris on LinkedIn
• Plumbline Staffing Solution website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Gail Audibert on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#153 Meet the Recruiter Who Survived and Thrived Through Four Recessions, with Gail Audibert

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In this episode, we uncover the keys to G&E Partners' rapid growth from $1 million to $6 million in just 2.5 years. Discover the business development strategies, hiring processes, tools, and technology that fueled this spectacular success.

My guest, Callum Collins, joined G&E Partners straight after university as a graduate trainee and within 3 years he had progressed to Managing Director. During the following 2.5 years, G&E Partners grew from 8 people to a team of 30 and increased billings by 600%.

G&E Partners is a boutique organization with a number of specialist practices including Pharmaceuticals/Biotech, Medical Devices, Logistics & Supply Chain, Commercial Construction, Civil Engineering, and Energy & Renewables.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:09] Callum’s journey from graduate trainee to Managing Director and then Partner in less than 7 years.
• [06:29] The leap from an average recruiter to a great recruiter.
• [11:12] Transitioning from a biller to a billing manager.
• [14:19] G&E team structure and turning trainees into 360 degree recruiters.
• [17:20] How do you identify high-potential performers when hiring fresh grads?
• [28:13] Career progression within recruitment.
• [33:13] How the next generation of recruiters can thrive in the recruitment industry.
• [39:14] Discussion of business development strategy.
• [49:17] Turning candidates into clients.
• [59:40] Callum’s thoughts on how to thrive in the current market.
• [01:02:49] How recruiting has positively impacted Callum’s life massively.

How to Hire Fresh Grads and Make Them Successful 360 Billers

When scaling your recruitment business, it can be challenging to find good people for your own team. Most owners assume that the easiest way to grow is by hiring experienced recruiters from your competitors. G&E prefers to hire Graduates with no prior recruitment experience. They are then trained up to G&E’s way of working.

How do they assess candidates to find the high-performers? Callum talked about their hiring process which includes asking the applicants to prepare and deliver a presentation, plus psychometric testing.

Callum also explained that although they have a 360-degree model, they train new hires on the candidate side first. They want new joiners get a taste of success quickly.

How to Win Key Accounts with Continuous Hiring Needs

One of the reasons G&E has scaled so quickly is that they’re successful at winning key accounts – companies who are continuously hiring. Having an abundance of roles is the perfect opportunity to grow your team. It means you’ll have plenty of orders for them to fulfill and they’ll start contributing from day one.

I asked Callum about his approach to business development. He explained that they focus on identifying the top 1% of executive talent in their niche, connecting with those individuals and nurturing them by keeping in touch with them consistently - even if they don’t have an job opportunity for them immediately. Because of the trust and credibility they establish, some of those candidate contacts turn into clients. This has been Callum’s most effective business development strategy.

How an Automated Reminder System Prompts You to Follow Up Consistently

As stated above, a critical factor of G&E’s success is how they nurture candidate relationships. It’s a deceptively simple idea. Yet the reality is that while all recruiters understand the importance of building relationships, very few have a system for following up consistently.

Callum reveals how he and his team organize themselves to continuously touch base, building trust and build credibility with top candidates. You’ll hear about the specific tools they use that automatically prompt them to follow up at the right time so nobody slips through the cracks.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Callum Collins Bio and Contact Info

Callum is the Managing Director of G&E Partners and is personally responsible for the growth and performance of the business. He was promoted to Managing Director in 2019 and this time has seen significant growth across all areas of business. He currently leads the day-to-day operations and activity of the business and in addition to his management responsibilities, Callum also leads retained search and selection projects in the Pharmaceutical and Biotech markets, specializing in C Suite, VP/SVP, and Board level assignments.

Callum has been with the business since joining as a Trainee Consultant and progressed to Managing Director & Partner in under 7 years.

• Callum on LinkedIn
• G&E Parters website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Bullhorn
• SourceWhale

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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We all have the same number of hours in a day. How do top recruiters, like Kimberley Laipple, bill five times more than average performers in the same amount of time?

For Kim’s entire career, she’s sought out ways to increase her income without working longer hours. Her focus on productivity has paid off. Last year, Kim personally billed over $1,400,000 while managing a team of 28 recruiters.

What is the secret behind this astonishing achievement? In this interview, you’ll learn the 4 keys to Kim’s productivity including effective delegation, team empowerment, consistent client development and automation technology.

Kimberly is the SVP and Managing Director of Scientific Search. In addition to her operational function, she still runs a full desk along with managing a team of 28 recruiters. Kim is a member of Pinnacle Society which is a consortium of the top 80 recruiters in the country. Kim’s consultative approach and client development skills have allowed her to continue to grow with the organization and increase her client base year after year.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:03] How becoming a single mom at 18 influenced Kim’s career choices.
• [07:30] How Kim forged her own career path in a male dominated industry.
• [14:00] Enabling flexibility within the team during tough times.
• [18:20] The 4 key factors leading to billing $1.4m last year.
• [26:41] Delegating tasks to improve productivity.
• [30:53] How Kim’s team members do the job they’re best at.
• [34:59] Kim’s tech stack - which technology platforms does she find beneficial.
• [46:53] Discussion on drip email campaigns and relevant platforms.
• [51:30] Copywriting skills and creating messages that generate a positive response.
• [55:40] Kim shares other success factors that can be modeled.

How to Forge Your Own Career Path

Kim is an inspiring example of how resilience and hard work pay off. She shared her experience of becoming a single mom at 18 and having to find a way to make a life for herself and her kids. “When you’re in that situation you really don’t know what you’re gonna do. But I knew one thing: I needed to find a way to make a living where my income didn’t depend on someone else’s choices.”

Joining Scientific Search almost 15 years ago, Kim has created her own career path. She earned her promotion to Managing Director as a result of constantly growing her client base while developing and mentoring junior recruiters.

Kim is a proponent of constant, never ending improvement. She’s always looking for ways to improve their delivery and increase productivity so they can increase billings within the same amount of hours. Some of the pivotal changes that she introduced were:

• Profiling their team members according to their strengths. They introduced different career paths within their organization.
• Segmenting their structure where allowed people to focus their time on more revenue-producing activities.
• Emphasis on client development, developing a consultative approach.

This resulted in a lot of collaboration within their team and gave the clients all the support that they need.

The Key Factors that Helped Kim Reach Record Billings of $1.4m

In 2022, Kim had a record year billing over $1.4M personally in addition to onboarding and developing junior recruiters. What were the success factors that lead to this astonishing achievement? The key ingredients we discussed include:

• Constantly growing your client base and not being over-reliant on her small number of accounts.
• Diversifying her average fee size with a combination of small, medium and large placements.
• Delegating effectively.
• Empowering her team.

Leveraging Automation Technology to Save Time and Increase Revenue

If you’re interested in leveraging automation to increase your billings, you’ll enjoy listening to Kim discuss her tech stack. Kim is on the Technology Committee of the Pinnacle Society, and is excited to share platforms that they are using to save time and generate more revenue. Some of the platforms she discussed are:

• LinkedIn Recruiter
• ZoomInfo
• Bullhorn Automation
• 3DIQ

Kim shared how these technologies fit together in their current processes.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Kimberly Laipple Bio and Contact Info

Kimberly Laipple is the SVP and Managing Director of Scientific Search. In addition to her operational function, she still runs a full desk along with managing a team of 28 recruiters. Kim was also nominated and joined the Pinnacle Society which is a consortium of the top 80 recruiters in the country! Kim’s consultative approach and client development skills have allowed her to continue to grow with the organization and increase her client base year after year. During the 14 years that Kim has been with Scientific Search, she has successfully placed people in clinical and commercial operations, manufacturing, engineering, R&D, and analytics as well as many other areas in pharmaceutical, life science medical device, healthcare, technology, and CPG companies.

Outside of work, Kim enjoys spending time with her 2 daughters and 4 grandkids. She is also passionate about animal rescue and has a house full of furry kids to keep her busy.

• Kim on LinkedIn
• Scientific Search website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Cathy Stewart on LinkedIn
• Joel Slenning on LinkedIn
• Pinnacle Society website link

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#142 How a Former Music Teacher Created Her Dream Life as a Top-Producing Recruiter, with Cathy Stewart, * TRR#How to Grow Your Recruitment Agency from Start-up to $2M in 3 Years, with Joel Slenning

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Do you wish you had more influence with your clients and candidates?

The last time Michael Goldman joined our podcast, he shared the secrets of enjoying a long-term career in recruiting. In this interview, he reveals how we as recruiters and business owners can create more value and enjoy greater influence with our clients and candidates.

Michael started his recruiting career in 1980 and founded his own firm, Strategic Associates, in 1988. Michael has built an excellent reputation as an executive recruiter in manufacturing and supply chains nationwide on both a contingency and retained basis.

Michael is a Founding Member and former president of the Pinnacle Society. Having run a successful desk for 42 years, and been a consistent top producer, Michael also speaks on and teaches recruiting tactics and strategies to recruiters globally.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [07:30] “Pulling your career sword from the stone”- Michael shares his career-building insights.
• [14:08] Focus on influencing rather than selling.
• [18:28] Positioning your opportunity in the marketplace through a branding strategy.
• [23:47] Michael shares the ‘vampire approach.’
• [29:42] Integrating the branding philosophy when talking with candidates and clients.
• [39:06] Bringing value to candidates by giving clarity to their career path.
• [43:08] “The Death of Expertise” - Michael and I exchange book recommendations.
• [47:30] Fostering connections and mentorship.
• [51:40] No plans to retire; Michael’s 42-year career and still going strong!
• [56:00] Sowing the seeds of value.

Focus on Influencing Rather Than Selling

A key insight that Michael discussed is why he advocates recruiters to influence, rather than sell. According to Michael, “A lot of people in our industry, especially newbies in the first 5 years or so are trained to throw up as much as against the wall as possible… What I do in the beginning is ask questions to determine the quality of the thought process that a prospect would have. I will understand what it takes to influence them as opposed to selling them…Because that is the key to unlock their retention.”

How does this translate to your role as a recruiter or a recruitment business owner? This is how Micheal explained it: “They expect you to be interesting… You have to realize, these people in the marketplace every day are in storms. They are constantly trying to sweep back the water on the deck of the boat and they are dealing with daily and weekly challenges… If you can tap into their perception of what success is in their life and you can do it in an interesting way, that will lead you toward providing significant influence with prospective candidates and clients.”

Integrating a Branding Philosophy to Engage Your Clients and Candidates

Michael discussed what differentiates a transactional recruiter from a consultative recruiter. He believes it’s about integrating a branding philosophy to establish trust and influence, especially when engaging with candidates and clients. From a branding perspective, there are parallel activities that Michael shared from both the candidate and client’s side. From the candidate side, he helps them identify their unique value proposition and helps them re-write their CVs to make them more powerful and aligned with their personal branding. On the client side, Michael helps his clients align their job descriptions in line with the employer's brand and vision of opportunity to make it attractive to the right sort of people.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Michael Goldman Bio and Contact Info

Since 1980, both in his native New York and Austin, Texas, Michael Goldman has cultivated a respected reputation for achievement in nationwide manufacturing/supply chain executive recruitment on both a contingency and retained basis. In 1988, he founded Strategic Associates with the purpose of creating a highly specialized firm encompassing talent in the areas of the supply chain, procurement, quality/regulatory affairs, and operations (plant and corporate). Clients span industries from medical devices to consumer packaged goods to industrial to high technology products–from perishable goods to durable–from food products to computers and personal communication devices to biomedical technology to capital equipment. They are from Fortune 500 and 50 to mid-sized privately-held firms.

Michael is an original Founding Member of the Pinnacle Society and, from 1991 to 1995, served two consecutive terms as its second president. He was awarded the Honorary Lifetime Membership in recognition of both his accomplishments in recruiting and service to Pinnacle. In addition, he has earned his CPC through the National Association of Personnel Services.

Along with continuously maintaining his consistent success as a “desk-running” recruiter for over 40 years (and currently), Michael also speaks on and teaches domestically and internationally advanced and basic recruiting tactics and strategies. He has been requested to provide grass-roots recruitment seminars and speaking engagements to American state and national organizations as well as international audiences. To date, he has personally educated recruitment professionals in the US, Ireland, England, and South Africa. In addition, he has conducted webinars for state recruiting organizations and Pinnacle Society meetings, and Pinnacle Panel events.

• Michael on LinkedIn
• Strategic Associates website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• The Pinnacle Society website link
• Lou Adler on LinkedIn
• Allan Fisher on LinkedIn
• Somer Hackley on LinkedIn
• Natasha Makhijani on LinkedIn
• The Death of Expertise by Tom Nichols
• How I Raised Myself from Failure to Success in Selling by Dale Carnegie

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#131 How to Make Better Placements with Performance-Based Hiring, with Lou Adler * TRR#166 How to Bill $1,000,000 For Ten Years Straight and Grow a Successful Team, with Allan Fisher * TRR#139 How to Grow a Wildly Successful Executive Search Practice, with Somer Hackley * TRR#30 How to Open Doors and Build Relationships at C-Level, with Natasha Makhijani

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What does it take to level up your billings from six figures per year to seven figures?

To answer this question, I asked my friend Andrea Colabella of the Cardea Group, to share her journey and the key changes she made to increase her billings from $550-750k per year to over $1.2m.

Andrea shared relatable insights and learnings from running a successful search firm including both her wins and losses. She presented golden nuggets about exclusivity, how to prepare for critical conversations, as well as the value of learning to say no to some searches.

Andrea has been recruiting since 2005 and has placed over 800 individuals throughout her career. She started her own agency, Cardea Group, in 2009 and is a member of the Pinnacle Society, the premier consortium of Industry-Leading recruiters in North America.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:57] How Andrea got into recruiting and how she started the Cardea Group.
• [06:01] Highlights and lessons learned as a recruitment firm owner.
• [12:14] The biggest challenges Andrea had to overcome as a business owner.
• [16:50] Qualifying criteria what makes a good search.
• [22:20] Discussion on exclusivity, commitment, and boundaries.
• [30:20] Andrea reveals the 3 important changes she made to level up her billings
• [38:00] Dealing with stress and pressure.
• [42:20] Cutting off the noise and focusing on the clients and candidates that make the most sense.
• [47:10] Rehearsing and preparing for key conversations.
• [50:44] How to respond to a client who asks you to reduce your fee percentage.
• [53:45] Learning from mentors and getting golden nuggets of wisdom to further your recruitment career.
• [57:40] What does Andrea’s typical day look like?

Key Learnings as a Recruitment Firm Owner

Andrea’s journey as a recruitment business owner is a colourful one, full of learnings and challenges that a lot of recruitment firm owners can relate to. She shared how they won major accounts as a boutique agency against well-known and established larger retained and contingency firms. She also revealed key learnings when they fail, doing retrospectives when they lose a pitch.

Highlights of lessons that she shared are:

• Consistently reviewing both the accomplishments and failures.
• The value of qualifying your search and starting to say no.
• Learning to cut through the noise and spending your time closest to the money.
• Having industry mentors and people you can lean on is hugely beneficial.

The 3 Changes That Enabled Her to Increase Billings to Over $1,000,000

Andrea and I discussed how she was able to level up from being a consistent biller in the $550-750K range to finally passing $1M+ per annum for the past two years. She acknowledges that it is also market driven but highlighted a few steps they took to make this happen.

So what are the 3 most important changes that enabled her to level up her billings?

1. Learning to say no to a number of searches that will waste a lot of time and focusing on more senior positions
2. Getting commitment fees upfront helps them to align themselves with the clients who are committed to making the hires.
3. Shifting their fees from guaranteed compensation to including their target bonuses included in their fee structure.

Listen to the full episode to hear Andrea elaborate on how she almost doubled her average fee!

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Andrea Colabella Bio and Contact Info

Andrea is a Johns Hopkins alumnus with bachelor’s and master’s degrees. She has been recruiting since 2005, initially across all industries, and over the past decade with a focus on the investment management space. Her excellence in the industry is highlighted through her admittance into The Pinnacle Society, an influential group of industry-leading recruiters. She started her own firebrand agency, Cardea Group, in 2009 focused on assisting private equity firms, hedge funds, venture capital funds, family offices, and traditional asset managers in staffing their non-investment functions. Based in New York City, Andrea is also an active board member of several not-for-profits.

• Andrea on LinkedIn
• Cardea Group website link
• Cardea Group on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• Gail Audibert on Linkedin
• Rich Rosen on LinkedIn
• Non-Profit that Andrea supports dearly: Horizons & BEF
• The Pinnacle Society

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#67 Think Like a Big Biller: How to Get Repeat Business and Referrals, with Rich Rosen * TRR#153 Meet The Recruiter Who Survived And Thrived Through Four Recessions, with Gail Audibert

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Running a desk while growing and managing a team can be extremely challenging. Someone who has managed to pull it off is Allan Fisher, founder of Premier Financial Search.

Allan’s got an amazing track record of personally billing over a million dollars for ten years straight. Then during Covid, Allan decided to turn a threat into an opportunity and grow his practice from a small, office-based team of 4 people to a remote team of 15 people based across the country.

According to Allan, the secret to his success involves excellent an operational support team, robust systems and processes, leveraging automation technology and commit to ongoing staff training & development.

In his long recruiting career, Allan has faced his share of adversity. As a recruiter and recruitment business owner, he went through the 9/11, the dot com bubble, the 2008/9 great recession, COVID and now the economic uncertainty and slowdown of 2023.

However, Allan believes that after every recession, prosperity follows.

Some of the key highlights that you will hear in this episode are:

• The importance of consistent Quality output regardless of market condition
• The value of hiring an integrator in your team to focus on the operational aspect of your business
• How to build your business by putting up a remote team
• How to create a great training and team culture in a remote setup

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:30] How Allan became a recruiter; the value of his Pinnacle Society peer group.
• [06:43] Allan candidly reveals his career lowlights that many recruiters can relate to.
• [12:30] Three learnings from coming out of economic recessions.
• [20:40] How to prep your team to face challenging periods.
• [24:08] Allan shares his career highlights and accomplishments.
• [30:10] As a recruitment business owner, how critical is it to find someone to help you who is operationally focused?
• [38:04] How Allan scaled his business from 4 to 15 team members remotely.
• [42:17] Creating a great culture in a remote environment.
• [48:10] The value of tracking performance and metrics.
• [50:08] How Allan manages his internal recruitment just like any other successful search process.
• [58:50] How Allan manages his time to be a top producer and recruitment business owner at the same time.

Insulating Your Team During Downturns

“If we are consistent with what we do, if we never change the quality that we present, we are really trying to make ourselves the firm of choice in any market. So it is not gonna make us recession-proof, but it will insulate us.” This is how Allan summarized how they have dealt with economic downturns and recessions since he started his recruitment business.

Allan started his recruitment business just around 2001, prior to the 9/11 attack. However, he had been a recruiter since 1988. So you can just imagine how many downturns Allan had undergone as a recruiter and business owner - the dot com bubble, the 9/11 attack, the real-estate bubble leading to the 2008 recession, and COVID. Now that we are all facing a similar uncertainty it is invaluable to hear Allan’s thought process and insight, and below are the takeaways:

• Coming out of a recession, the market usually rebounds in a dramatic way and this period usually brings prosperity. You will only lose out if you quit.
• When the market changes for the better, clients will have more choices and they will revert to QUALITY. Be consistent with what you do and never change the quality that you present in any market.
• Never stop doing business development. When things are doing well, it may be easy to get clients but never stop doing business development.

Why Having an “Integrator” is Key to Operational Success

Being a successful business owner is not the same as being a successful recruiter. On the other hand, the best recruiters are not necessarily always the best business owners. The best business owners are actually the ones who are good at marketing, sales, and leadership. Hence, if you are a successful recruiter transitioning to becoming a business owner, hiring someone complementary to your technical skills is a key to success.

This is the case with Allan, and he shared his journey of discovering this logical approach with his team. By finding his and his team’s strengths, he was able to find the best role for his members. From within his team, he was able to find an integrator who is very effective in operational execution.

As a recruitment business owner, things you may need to ask yourself: Do you have an integrator to help in the operational aspects of your business? Are you able to set up your team for success by having them work primarily on their strengths?

Growing Your Business by Building a Team in a Remote Working Environment

A key highlight when growing Allan’s business is when they started to grow the team from 4 to 15 members in a couple of years by hiring people remotely. “A couple of years ago when we realize that location was not really a factor for our clients. Then I realized, maybe it should not be a factor for us,” he recalled. So Allan started to work on building his team, by first running a search. He looked for candidates that have been doing what they do for 3-4 years and ran a national search. He was able to find rockstar team members in doing so. Given that this is a remote setup, Allan also revealed how they adjusted their training methodology in order to accommodate their new team members. Lastly, Allan also shared how he works on the team’s dynamics and culture despite the differences in proximity.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Allan Fisher Bio and Contact Info

Allan Fisher has been the recruiter of choice to elite local, regional, and national accounting firms for 25 years. Leveraging his extensive industry expertise, Allan is driven to facilitate transformative change for organizations and candidates, alike. With a mission to further client strategic visions and goals, Allan has keen insight into accounting talent market trends and forces, enabling him to make placements that surpass industry averages for engagement and retention.

Allan originally began his career in accounting, spending two years with a professional services firm. From there, he moved to a division of a $500 million publicly traded software manufacturer. In January 1998, seeking to utilize his accounting background in service to others, Allan made the jump to recruiting and joining Accounting Principals, a national staffing firm. In his three and a half years with Accounting Principals, he was ranked as one of the top executive recruiters nationwide, winning the “Consultant Of The Year” award by the California Staffing Professionals Association (CSP) in 2000.

Today, Allan has established himself as an industry thought leader and has spoken at meetings of the California Society of Certified Public Accountants, the California State Board of Accountancy, The Westside Firm Administrators Group, and ProVisors. He has been quoted in The Wall Street Journal.

• Allan on LinkedIn
• Premier Financial Search website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Harlan Friedman on LinkedIn
• The Pinnacle Society website link
• The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel
• Jeremy Sisemore on LinkedIn
• Leanne Sara Jones Hunt on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#97 Lift Outs: How to Successfully Recruit an Entire High-Performing Team, with Harlan Friedman * TRR#160 Why Balance is the Key to Unlocking Personal and Business Growth, with Jeremy Sisemore

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Is recruitment a numbers game? To say so would be an oversimplification, but there’s no denying that data-driven insights can lead to improved performance and profits.

Recruitment is a numerically predictable business. If you want to maximize your billings, it’s important to measure both your activity (quantity of effort) and ratios (quality of effort).

We also recommend setting yourself KPIs (Key Performance Indicators) to stay on track and increase the likelihood of achieving your billings goal.

If you’re not already tracking your metrics, or if you do not know what numbers and ratios to measure, I am sure you will find value in this episode. By analyzing metrics such as “job order to placement ratio” and “average placement value,” recruiters can identify areas for improvement. The exciting part about knowing your numbers is that small improvements can lead to a big increase in billings with the same or less effort.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [00:32] Why some recruitment business owners are reluctant to measure their metrics.
• [03:30] Why are KPIs critical for you to achieve your goals?
• [04:40] What is the Recruitment Business Health Check? Discussion on reasons why you need to do it.
• [10:30] What are the specific numbers and ratios that you should be tracking?
• [16:13] Tangible steps to track your metrics and KPIs.
• [21:06] The benefit of getting an accountability partner.

Perform a Recruitment Business Health Check

When clients join our Recruitment Coach community, one of the first things we do is a Recruitment Business Health Check. Business owners analyze their desks by looking at their billings, average invoice value, how many interviews to make a placement, how many candidates it takes to get an interview and other significant metrics. The purpose of this is to give you a benchmark of your current performance and allow you to pinpoint the obvious area for improvement. Whatever your goal is, you can reverse engineer and work backward. Whether your goal is an annual revenue of 500k or 1m, you can figure it out by working on your weekly, monthly, or quarterly milestones. Hence, aside from leading you to your goals, the value of tracking your metrics is to give you the maximum chance of hitting your business goals.

What Should You be Tracking?

You may be wondering, what specific numbers and ratios you should be tracking. Before I lay out a few critical data points, I want to draw an important distinction. There is a difference between the numbers you are tracking and KPIs. People often use those two terms synonymously, but they are not the same thing. I want you to track, absolutely everything. The more data you have, the clearer it will be. However, a KPI - key performance indicator, is something you are going to target yourself on or target your team on. We don’t recommend giving yourself or your people too many different targets. Having three KPIs at most that you are constantly focused on is enough. At the same time, having access to all the other data means that you can refer to it as needed and make informed business decisions. Here are some important data points that you should be constantly looking into:

• Billings
• Number of placements
• Average placement value (Billings/Number of Placements)
• Number of first interviews
• Number of candidates presented/submitted
• CV to Interview Ratio
• Number of new job orders
• Number of sales conversations with clients
• Numbers of recruiting conversations with candidates.

The list is definitely not exhaustive, but I would encourage you to be on top of the above data points and be able to work out your ratios accordingly.

Tangible Steps to Track Your Metrics

Speaking about the benefit of tracking your KPIs and metrics, where do you start? There are low-tech and high-tech solutions. You can use an old-school whiteboard if you want to create a visual of the data you are tracking. Most people nowadays use CRM systems, which have the capability of producing reports which will make it easy for you to see your KPIs. Don’t be discouraged if you do not have a CRM yet, you can use a spreadsheet or even a paper-based system if you want. The important thing is to start tracking and monitoring your numbers asap!

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

People and Resources Mentioned

• Leanne on LinkedIn
• Jordan Rayboy on LinkedIn
• Atomic Habits, by James Clear

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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If you’re building a recruitment business, you might want to consider replacing the 360 degree “full desk” model with a 120-120-120 model.

In this fascinating interview, Pree Sarkar shares why he believes it’s easier to scale a recruitment business with a 120 degree model. You’ll hear how it gives his firm a competitive advantage in the market. Plus, Pree reveals their entire end-to-end recruitment process including the KPIs and metrics of a successful search firm leveraging the 120 business model.

You’ll be inspired by Pree’s story of resilience, from losing his job during the Great Financial Crisis to starting a successful recruitment company and making a positive impact locally and globally.

Pree Sarkar is the Founder and Director of Switch Recruitment, specializing in recruiting for start-ups and SaaS companies in the APAC region. LinkedIn rated him as a Top 1% Recruiter, Amazon rated his book Switch, a #1 bestseller in Careers and Job Hunting and he is a member of The Pinnacle Society, a select group of industry-leading recruiters globally.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:05] From losing his job to launching a recruitment business.
• [05:02] Key inflection points in the road to recruitment business success.
• [10:47] Building trust from scratch when nobody has heard of you or your company.
• [15:14] Transitioning from being a generalist to a niche specialist.
• [18:30] Why it is essential to focus on your strengths and hire others to complement your weaknesses.
• [22:02] Pree describes Switch’s building phase and how it has evolved.
• [25:08] What is the 120-120-120 team model?
• [29:30] Discussion on incentives, metrics, and KPIs in the 120-degree model.
• [32:00] Pree shares their end-to-end recruitment process in detail.
• [38:30] Giving back to the community - sponsoring a child with every placement.
• [46:34] How Pree became a thought leader and trusted advisor in New South Wales.
• [54:50] Pree shares the backstory of his best-selling book, Switch.

Inflection Points Leading to Recruitment Business Success

Pree shares an amazing story on how he got into the recruitment business. On the eve of the Great Financial Crisis, he ended up losing his job. Determined to provide for his family, he believed that from that point onward that no matter how dark it was, serendipity can change the course of his life.

The first three months were really hard with two kids under five while being a single-income family. They had just recently purchased a house, and they had to break open the piggy bank in order to survive. I am sure you will be amazed at how one thing led to another for Pree, which can be attributed to his mindset and resilience.

There are four distinct inflection points in his journey that he elaborated on:

1. Learning how to listen with empathy to solve problems.
2. Learning to sell.
3. Learning to lead.
4. Learning to build.

Experiencing difficulties first hand moved Pree to give back to the community by means of sponsoring a child for every placement. They currently sponsor 21 children across the planet and provide food, medication, clothing, and education through their partnership with Watoto and Compassion Australia.

Why Pree Believes the 120 Degree Model Is More Effective

In discussing how Pree built Switch Recruitment, we covered the topic of Switch’s 120-120-120 model, which they find more effective than a 360 model. Pree believes that recruiters must have situational awareness in three areas: who are the companies, what are the jobs, and who are the candidates? With this in mind, there should be team effort involving:

• A researcher who lives and breathes all the data and information.
• A recruiter who is speaking to 20+ candidates all day, every day.
• An account manager who solely focuses on the client ecosystem.

This minimized risks for everyone on the team as the specialization allows each person to embrace their skills and build expertise. Part of Switch’s value proposition is that they offer a “relay race” with three recruiters working on each project resulting in faster placements.

How to Build Your Reputation as a Trusted Advisor

A series of events lead to Pree becoming a trusted advisor in his industry - to the point of being recognized by the Australian government and publishing his book, “Switch”. To summarize, Pree likes having conversations with executives, listening to their problems, and genuinely wanting to solve them even if it may or may not result in a transaction. These conversations built the foundation for him to be more visible, and lead to him published his book, Switch: Stand Out, Get The Right Job And Accelerate Your Career.

When the pandemic hit, the book was really timely as a lot of people needed help. Pree shipped 200 copies of the book for free, and they ran 40 workshops and recorded an online course. They then approached companies offering outplacement support for employees who were losing their job. This lead to Pree being awarded a Certificate of Outstanding Service by the New South Wales Government.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Pree Sarkar Bio and Contact Info

Pree Sarkar is an executive recruiter and career coach. LinkedIn rated him in the Top 1% of Recruiters for Search Excellence and Talent Pipelining. Prior to recruitment, he was a top-performing account executive and sales director with Fortune 500 companies, including Xerox and FedEx.

Since 2008 he has been advising leaders and professionals at global technology companies and pre-IPO start-ups to help them build winning teams and great careers.

• Pree on LinkedIn
• Switch Recruitment website link
• Switch book, by Pree Sarkar

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Is fear and self-doubt preventing you from building your personal brand and growing your recruitment business?

In this episode, you’ll discover how my guest Mike O’Riordan overcomes his tendency to be a perfectionist, pushes outside his comfort zone and gets things done.

Mike is the founder of Blackwater Search & Advisory, a global executive search and advisory firm focused on the ETF and Digital Assets market. I’ve known Mike for almost 3 years and have witnessed his rapid growth from a one-man band with no recruitment industry experience to running a hugely successful boutique.

Get ready to be inspired by Mike's story and learn how to overcome the pitfalls of perfectionism in your recruitment business.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:49] Mike’s catchphrase, “I’m executing the shit out of this stuff.”
• [03:33] What is an ETF?
• [05:20] Why Mike shifted from a decades-long career in banking to recruiting.
• [11:04] Is the negative perception of recruiters justified?
• [19:50] The company’s current size and structure after four years.
• [23:12] The impact of hiring an effective marketing person.
• [28:24] Why perfectionism can cost you millions of dollars.
• [33:10] How digital marketing has been a game changer for Mike’s business.
• [42:47] Why an email newsletter is a good way to start marketing.
• [45:17] Discussion about creating video content - Mike’s journey.
• [48:40] Get comfortable in being uncomfortable - why getting out of your comfort zone is critical to success.
• [54:00] What’s next for the Blackwater search?

Perfectionism Can Cost You Millions of Dollars

Mike and I first spoke back in March 2020, and he was one of the first people who enrolled in my Billings Accelerator program, which has evolved into our Inner Circle community of recruitment business owners.

Despite having less recruitment experience, Mike made faster progress than many others in his cohort. The reason? Mike is someone who implements like crazy. I remember asking him how he was doing that, achieving so much in a short time. His answer: “Mark, I am just executing the shit out of this stuff.” What a catchphrase!

Mike is now successfully running a global ETF and Digital Assets consulting and executive search firm. In retrospect, Mike never would have imagined achieving so much after spending 20 years as a salaryman in financial institutions. To what does he attribute his success? For Mike, it is about just getting it done. It does not have to be perfect. The most important thing is just to do it. You can always improve it later.

I agree with this a hundred percent! I’m certain that perfectionism has personally cost me a million dollars or more. Looking back on my 21 years as a coach, I can truly relate to how perfectionism - another word for procrastination - has lost me so much potential. That is why this interview with Mike is an eye-opener to so many recruitment business owners out there. Whatever business strategy you are struggling to implement, it doesn’t have to be perfect, what matters is you go out and do it.

Effective Recruitment Marketing is a Game Changer

Another area that we explored in our conversation is the importance of having an effective marketing person on your team. For Mike, this has been a game-changer. You will hear how their marketing strategies have enabled them to leapfrog ahead of their competition and win business with clients that are household names.

Some of the marketing implementations that were discussed by Mike are:

• Newsletter
• Market Insight Reports
• Salary Survey
• Video Series
• Podcast
• Webinars

We discussed what changed Mike’s mind about recording videos, as to begin with it was not his cup of tea. Just like most of us, he hated to hear his own voice. But he didn’t let the fact he was uncomfortable stop him from taking action.

Get Comfortable in Being Uncomfortable

A known enemy of success is being too comfortable, which may hinder you from stepping out of your comfort zone. Mike and I believe that getting comfortable with being uncomfortable relates to everything in life. If you are not uncomfortable, you may not be trying hard enough, or not pushing yourself enough.

“When our back sets to the wall, that is when we really realize that there is stuff we can do we never really imagined,” as Mike puts it. The same with a recruitment business, stepping outside of your comfort zone is key to your success.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Mike O’Riordan Bio and Contact Info

Mike has over 20 years Financial Services experience. He started his career in Investment Banking working at Deutsche Bank and RBS before moving to Credit Suisse where he began his Asset Management career. He has worked at Credit Suisse, HSBC, BlackRock, and JP Morgan in various product roles covering Mutual Funds and ETFs. Michael launched Blackwater Search & Advisory in May 2019. Blackwater is a global recruiting and consulting company focused on the ETF and Digital Assets market.

• Mike on LinkedIn
• Blackwater Insights podcast
• Blackwater Search website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Somer Hackley on LinkedIn
• The 12-Week Year: Get More Done in 12 Weeks than Others Do in 12 Months

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#139 How to Grow a Wildly Successful Executive Search Practice, with Somer Hackley

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In the 7th installment of our Recruitment Mistakes series, we delve into the benefits of specializing in a niche market and how it can lead to shorter recruitment cycles, clearer messaging, and increased profits.

By focusing on a specific niche, you can tailor your message, build a strong candidate pool, and become the go-to expert in your field. However, choosing a niche can be challenging. Some recruiters may feel hesitant due to the fear of missing out on opportunities or letting go of legacy clients.

We know that specialists usually bill more than generalists and in this session Leanne and I hope to address any fear or hesitation you may have in committing to a niche market.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [00:47] Clearer messaging to attract the right target audience.
• [02:30] Having a targeted and well-defined niche leads to a shorter recruitment cycle.
• [07:06] What could stop recruiters from focusing on a specific niche?
• [08:45] Dealing with legacy clients when transitioning to niche-focused recruitment.
• [15:30] Steps you can take to define your niche.
• [16:26] Next topic to cover in this series: not tracking your metrics.

The Benefits of Specializing

Specializing, in the long run, can help you shorten your recruitment cycle, leading to more placements which ultimately translates to maximized profits. Consider this: how long does it take for you to fill a job on average? If you’re not focusing on a specific niche, you are starting from scratch every time you take on a new search.

Here is how specializing makes things easier:

• The clearer you can be about your niche the clearer your message and branding can be
• You can recycle your candidate pool.
• Much shorter recruitment cycle - presenting candidates within 24-48 hours instead of weeks or months.

Specializing is a proven approach. We would estimate that more than 90% of the million-dollar recruitment business owners we’ve had as guests on this podcast are specialists.

What Could Stop You from Committing to a Niche?

Some can feel hesitant to commit to a niche for two reasons: psychologically you may feel that you are turning down profit because you may feel that you are missing out on other opportunities, and you feel that you can’t let go of your ‘legacy’ clients.

If you take a second and think about it, the fear of missing out on other opportunities is quite the opposite of reality. Being a specialist means you will make more money. Although it feels like you are reducing the amount of business you are considering, focusing on a niche gives you more opportunities for repeat businesses and becoming top of mind when it comes to your specific field.

We are not saying that you forgo your legacy clients and leave them behind. A workaround is having a transition period and setting the right expectations with your existing core clients. You can still work with your legacy clients without compromising your commitment to a specific niche.

What Are the Steps That You Should Take

In our coaching program, we guide you to define or re-define your niche through our market-mapping exercise. Thinking about the parameters of how to define a niche, we use the acronym FILL (Function, Industry, Level, Location). Look back over your last 12-24 months of placements. Where have you been the most successful? That is a good starting point to decide your specialty.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

People and Resources Mentioned

• Leanne on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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No one is immune from challenging economic downturns and it is certainly the case for my special guest, Michael Pietrack. Making his second appearance on the show, Michael humbly shares his experience of dealing with a severe slump in his market.

Michael’s shares his strategy for surviving tough times and emerging as a market leader. In this inspiring interview, Michael explains how he navigated past recessions and his approach during the current climate. There are lessons for leaders and recruiters alike, including how Michael keeps a healthy mental space for himself and his team, remains relevant and brings value to his customers in a downturn.

You’ll discover the proactive steps to overcome a slump, including best practices and strategies for MPC marketing and cold-calling. You will also hear about Michael’s new book, Legacy, which is about values that guide the choices we make in life and in business.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:41] Michael gives a realistic picture of the current climate of the market he serves, which is medical affairs in the pharmaceutical industry.
• [03:18] What to do when companies are downsizing.
• [08:07] Having an agile mindset - changing the roles of your team members to address the needs of the business.
• [10:21] Discussion on MPC strategy.
• [17:30] How to position yourself during downturns to take advantage of the upswing that always follows.
• [21:00] Michael shares his cold calling and voicemail strategy.
• [23:36] Michael explains how to keep a safe mental space for his team.
• [28:35] The power of telling stories to communicate and engage with your team and clients.
• [32:43] Michael discusses his newly published book: Legacy.
• [38:28] Insights on being noble in the recruiting business.
• [40:38] The challenges Michael had to overcome to publish his new book
• [49:00]

Focusing on Doing the Right Things During a Downturn

Since last time I spoke to Michael, the market he serves has contracted significantly.

“The market in our particular industry totally flipped. We went from the healthiest market you can imagine in 2021, and it just started to nosedive. The business just evaporated. We went from having 99 recs down to 9 as a firm. We carried over 9 from 2022 to 2023.”

The current economic environment for a lot of recruitment firms can pose an unpredictable challenge to owners, no one is immune to what Michael’s team had experienced. If this were to happen to you, how would you have responded?

Michael, being the resilient leader that he is, possessed a healthy mindset on dealing with a business slump. For him, it is important to keep the team busy and remain relevant. Below are the takeaways that he shared:

1. Putting relationships first - bringing value to both candidates and clients. Not only from a long-term financial ROI perspective, but Michael and his team sincerely believe that this is a good time to build good relationships.
2. When talking to Hiring Managers - start talking about positions that will pop up when conditions are better. Forward-thinking for when ‘the thaw happens’ can give them an edge against their competitors.
3. Staying Agile - the team had to rotate roles, from recruiting to business development. It can be challenging at first, so effective communication with your team is essential to making a successful transition.

A Business Leader’s Guide on Dealing with a Business Slump

Recruiting can be the best job in the world when things are going well, but can also be the worst job in the world if things are not going great. So as a recruitment business owner and leader, how do you ensure that you and your team are able to stay strong?

Michael shared the proactive steps he is implementing in his team:

• Valuing activity more than valuing the results. Michael shared how they gamify activities by creating contests. Keeping people engaged that way has been working for his team and he encourages other business owners to do the same.

• MPC Strategies. You will hear Michael’s ingenious approach to MPC marketing

• Cold Calling Strategies. Michael also shared his cold-calling strategies and dealing with voicemail.

The most important topic we covered is having the right mindset regarding your business, candidates, clients, and being mentally prepared for what the future holds.

Leaving a Legacy and Being Noble in the Recruitment Field

Michael and I talked about his new book, Legacy: The Saga Begins. This book is an allegory about overcoming fear and self-doubt and finding courage in the face of adversity. Essentially, it’s about values – becoming noble, making choices, and believing in your own abilities. He wrote the book during the pandemic when the world is feeling anxious about an uncertain future. Michael and I discussed how the book’s message is relevant not just for families but also to recruiters - especially as it relates to being noble and making the right choices.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Michael Pietrack Bio and Contact Info

Michael Pietrack is a leading Pharmaceutical Industry recruiter from the US. His firm is called TMAC Direct, the executive recruiting arm of The Medical Affairs Company, which is the international leader in direct hire and contract staffing for Medical Affairs. Michael is known as one of the top five billers in the US, and because of that, he is a sought-after speaker and trainer. He runs a high-performing desk while overseeing several teams. His hobbies include creative writing, Bible study, and spending time with his wife and three daughters.

• Michael on LinkedIn
• TMAC Direct website link
• TMAC Direct on Facebook
• TMAC Direct on YouTube
• Michael’s volunteer work: JW.org website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Legacy: The Saga Begins book
• Jordan Rayboy on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#106 How to Bill £12,800,000 in 14 Years, with Michael Pietrack * TRR#153 Meet The Recruiter Who Survived And Thrived Through Four Recessions, with Gail Audibert

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Recruiters might need to work a little harder to achieve the same revenue as last year.

“It is not gloom and doom but it is also bringing a little dose of reality that we may need to get our business development hats on, and we may have to ramp up our energy and activity levels a little bit more to generate the same revenues or more.”

These are the words of my special guest, Jeremy Sisemore, who joins us for the second time to share his insight on how to grow your recruitment business in the current market. In this episode, Jeremy talks about the science of having a success mindset, incorporating balance into your personal and recruitment growth, as well as how to set your team up for success.

Jeremy is one of the leading IT executive recruiters in North America and he’s been at the top of his field for the past 20 years. Jeremy has billed over $14 Million in his career and specializes in placing IT executives in SAP, ERP, and Cyber Security at all levels up to and including CIO, CTO, CISO.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:33] What’s changed since Jeremy’s first appearance on the show?
• [04:34] Sharing insights on the current market - comparison with the 2008-09 recession.
• [07:00] Discussion of mindset and the self-fulfilling prophecy.
• [14:00] Competitive diving and the concept of balance
• [25:00] Incorporating balance into your recruitment activities.
• [36:23] What is Jeremy doing to create growth and balance?
• [45:36] Onboarding new team members and setting them up for success.
• [54:22] KPI Roadmap and metrics to help team members to be successful.

The Science of Cultivating a Success Mindset

The last time I interviewed Jeremy, he emphasized the importance of inner grit which allows you to turn challenging experiences into stepping stones for success. This time, he shared insights on the importance of having the right mindset in the recruitment industry as the current market and economic climate may present some challenges.

“I think that people might be able to do the same revenue and numbers, but only if their mind is right and they work a little harder. It may not feel as easy to make the same numbers, I don’t think, in 2023 as it might have felt in 2022…

“It is not gloom and doom but it is also bringing a little dose of reality that we may need to get our business development hats on, we may have to ramp up our energy and activity levels a little bit more to generate the same revenues.”

Our mindset is like a self-fulfilling prophecy - if you expect great things, and great results, then you will go after it! You will be creative, tenacious, and resilient which will translate into great results. The reverse is also true.

“There is science behind the self-fulfilling prophecy,” added Jeremy.

You’ll enjoy Jeremy’s story about his experience as a competitive diver and diving coach and how it relates to the value of having the right mindset - for both beginners and experts in almost any field.

The Concept of Balance and How to Incorporate it Into Your Personal and Business Growth

Aside from having inner grit and possessing the right mindset - Jeremy discussed the concept of balance. “Balance can mean a lot of different things - depending on how you would like to apply that into our world - recruitment, talent acquisition, building a business, getting clients, getting candidates…”

Jeremy went on to explain how the concept of balance applies in a variety of areas:

• Balancing work and relationships to address and prevent burnout.
• Having personal balance for personal and professional growth.
• Applying balance in your recruitment business and activities.

You will hear how Jeremy applies this principle - especially in the form of self-talk and reflection as well as having the right mental diet.

Setting Up Your Team For Success

We ended our conversation on the topic of onboarding new team members and setting them up for success, even in a remote setup. Here is the outline of the best practices shared by Jeremy:

• Doing the first four days of training in-person to achieve immersion
• Doing three-way meetings with a client - as a way of osmosis training.
• Doing weekly one-on-one and team meetings.
• Celebrating small and big wins to embed the culture of success.

Jeremy also shared their approach to benchmarking and KPI’s to give each team member a roadmaps to achieving success.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Jeremy Sisemore Bio and Contact Info

Jeremy Sisemore has been one of the leading IT Executive Recruiters throughout North America for the past 20 years. He started his career with MRI and was Rookie of the Year in 2000 and quickly became the go-to resource for SAP & ERP talent acquisition needs nationally. Jeremy billed millions of dollars in placement revenue over 6.5 years with MRI, received a CSAM Certification, and became known for public speaking on “best practices” within the recruiting industry. In his career, Jeremy has over $14 Million in personal production (billings) and has placed IT Executives and Cyber Security talent at all levels up to and including CIO, CTO, CISO levels across all areas of emerging technologies. ASAP Talent serves over 75 major Fortune 500 clients throughout North America and internationally in Singapore, Germany, and the UK.

Today, Jeremy is CPC and CERS Certified and is a former member of the Board of Directors as Education Chair for The Pinnacle Society, a premier consortium of 80 industry-leading recruiters in North America. He speaks regularly at industry conferences such as NAPS, NCASP, The Fordyce Forum, HAAPC, and MASA among others.

Jeremy and his business partner, Erek Gerth, founded ASAP Talent Services in 2006 and haven’t looked back since. Today the ASAP Team of 5 supports well over 75 of the world’s leading companies and generates annual revenues of around $1.7-$2M. Their mission has been to create a boutique talent acquisition firm focused on the highest quality service and to form lasting partnerships with clients that are poised for growth, to be a total solution provider with respect to SAP & Cyber Security Talent. Jeremy writes industry articles and has been quoted in CIO magazine. On a personal level, Jeremy graduated from the University of Missouri where he was on the Swimming & Diving Team. He’s married and is a father to two daughters and a son based out of Houston, Texas.

• Jeremy on LinkedIn
• Jeremy on Twitter @SAPheadhunter
• ASAP Talent Services website link
• ASAP Talent Services Facebook page
• ASAP Talent Services Youtube channel

People and Resources Mentioned

• Gail Audibert on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#35 Inner Grit: The Traits of a Big Biller, with Jeremy Sisemore * TRR#153 Meet The Recruiter Who Survived And Thrived Through Four Recessions, with Gail Audibert

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Posting original LinkedIn content is an effective way to build your brand, create top-of-mind awareness and become the go-to recruiter in your niche.

Yet according to LinkedIn, only 1% of active users create content on the platform. Why aren’t more recruitment firm owners seizing this opportunity? Perhaps they’re suffering from “imposter syndrome” or maybe they just don’t know where to start.

In the 6th installment of our Recruitment Mistakes series, we explain the benefits of posting original content on Linkedin consistently. We want to get you motivated to become a content creator! You’ll also hear some ideas on what to post and how to get started.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:10] Why we advocate posting original content on LinkedIn.
• [04:49] What do we mean by original content?
• [07:04] Top three reasons that people may hold back from posting, and why you should still create original posts.
• [15:02] Original versus curated content.
• [16:00] What should be the content of your posts?
• [21:00] How often should you post LinkedIn content?
• [22:46] Tips and tricks on how to create posts.
• [27:38] Preview of our next episode in this series.

Three Reasons Why You Should Post Original Content

What do we mean by original content? Well a lot of the stuff you see in your news feed is curated content (sharing or reposting) instead of original content. We want you to be a content creator, not a content distributor!

Why should it matter if the content is original or curated? Aside from the fact that LinkedIn’s algorithm will enable you to get more organic engagement via original content, here are three reasons:

1. You will position yourself as an authority in your own niche.
2. You become visible to your network’s newsfeed.
3. People will understand your market knowledge and personality which will build trust.

What Might Hold You Back and Why You Should Post Anyway

Here are some of the reasons that might hold you back from starting or keeping up posting original content regularly, and why the reason can be superficial and must be overcome:

A post won't do well and it might be a flop - There is no such thing! Even if your posts average 500-1000 views that’s fantastic. That means 1000 people have been exposed to your brand and your ideas. If you post 5 times per week, that’s 5000 impressions per week ... 260,000 in a year. Think of the impact that could have on the success of your business.

Feeling Uncomfortable - If you feel that maybe people might not like what you post, or maybe you will get trolled, this should not hold you back from posting original content. I used to feel that way and even felt anxiety when I first starting on posting years ago. But nothing bad ever happened, only tons of good things. People responded and the posts resonated. It took quite a while for the anxiety to die away, but now I don’t think twice.

Impostor Syndrome - Do you feel that you do not know what to say that can be worthy to share out there? Keep in mind that as a successful recruitment business owner, you are doing a disservice to your market if you are now sharing your expertise on the market. You are qualified to help people in your niche, and you can bring value by sharing your own insights and knowledge.

What and When to Publish?

There are different formats when posting, for example a poll, text only, or image. In terms of getting started, a good example is presenting ideas or insights based on your own experience and the conversations you’re already having every day in your market.

Although entertainment posts such as GIFs or memes tend to perform well, just relying on entertainment won’t cut it if you are wanting to be seen as an expert in your space.

It’s best to share a mixture of personal and professional content. Let’s focus on Authority Content - as this should be at least 50% of the content you share. What are the topics you want to be known as an expert in?

A brilliant copywriter in history, Gary Halbert, once said: "Find out what your audience is hungry for and then serve it to them hot."

How often should you be posting? Whatever will be sustainable for you. We recommend posting at least 3-4 times per week. We compare this to going to the gym. It’s easy to be enthusiastic at the start but will you stay consistent 6-12 months from now? Set a pace that you can maintain rather than go all in for a few weeks only to fizzle out.

This is an investment that will pay compound interest over time. You might not see results overnight, but you will indeed see those results in the long run.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

People and Resources Mentioned

• The Top 25 LinkedIn Posts - Ebook Link
• Leanne on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Beyond the Transaction: How to Achieve Growth in an Uncertain Economy

The key factor that ensures successful recruitment business growth while navigating an uncertain economic climate is having sticky client relationships.

My special guest, Greg Hollis, newly appointed Group CEO of Recruitment Entrepreneur, shares how focusing on the 3 Cs (customer, candidate, consultants) and developing a strong client relationship can bring about significant opportunities for growth to your recruitment firm. He shared their practices on how they add value to their clients and establish a relationship beyond the transaction.

Greg has 27 years in the recruitment industry, working across multiple sectors and delivery models, he’s launched and managed several businesses, brought an entrepreneurial spirit into a global PLC’s senior leadership team, and successfully lead many high-performance organizations.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:41] What Greg learned from spending 17 years at Manpower
• [06:30] Greg shares his insights on Vision and creating a high-performance culture.
• [13:24] The 3 Cs of scaling a recruitment business.
• [16:29] The philosophy and strategies for developing client relationships.
• [22:15] What are the specific action steps to create more strategic relationships?
• [30:00] Discussion on developing solution-selling skills.
• [34:30] Greg shares how Project RPO works and how it differs from a retained assignment with multiple hires.
• [41:23] Adding value via Post-Deployment Training.
• [43:30] Delivering added value to client relationships.
• [47:58] Facing the current economic situation - what message is Greg giving his stakeholders in navigating this interesting chapter?
• [51:48] With the current condition of the global markets, is there a significant opportunity to scale?
• [53:38] How do you know when is the best time to make your next hire?
• [57:36] What does 2023 hold for Recruitment Entrepreneur?

Creating a High-Performance Culture and Focusing on the 3 Cs.

Greg has a wealth of experience in the recruitment industry and invaluable insight when it comes to managing and scaling your recruitment business. You will hear his thoughts on the importance of having the core focus on the 3 Cs, which stands for Clients, Candidates, and Consultants.

Greg also discussed what is needed to establish a high-performance culture: it is centered around people with clear goals and expectations. However, the main part is having a clear how. A high-performance culture aligns not only with the objectives but also with learning and skill development.

Critical Keys to Client Relationship Development

For Greg, focusing on the client is a critical factor to scale successfully. Rather than just becoming transactional, it is important to step back and consider your customer base. Some of the factors you may want to consider, as mentioned by Greg, are as follows:

Who are they as an organization? What are their plans not just now but in the next 12, 18 months, 2 years, or 3 years? When you scale your business, do you consider building your team to support your clients as aligned with their plans? On top of onboarding talents into their organization, what support can you provide to take care of their existing talents by improving their unique value proposition in the marketplace? How do we understand the challenges and pain in their processes?

To summarize, Greg says, “By taking a step back, seeing what we could do differently… starting to think: how we can deliver a service to the customer that is relevant to them?”

With the Current Market Conditions, Are There Significant Opportunities to Scale Your Recruitment Business?

Greg also shared his insight on the current market conditions where there is a recessive economy but strong hiring demand and massive skill shortages in many areas. For him, it has been an interesting few years and his advice is to be attentive, agile, and adaptive as we are only able to address the things that we are aware of. But ultimately, get close to your customers by having a sticky client relationship.

Are there still opportunities to hire and scale your business with the current economic climate? For Greg, “the reality is that there are still significant opportunities to scale out there.” It is about focusing on the 3 Cs - Clients, Candidates, and Consultants.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Greg Hollis Bio and Contact Info

With 27 years in the recruitment industry, working across multiple sectors and delivery models, Greg launched and managed several businesses, brought an entrepreneurial spirit into a global PLC’s senior leadership team, and successfully lead many high-performance organizations. Greg now works with some of the industry’s leading entrepreneurs; helping them to grow consistently and predictably, in both new ventures and scaling businesses. With one goal; to turn equity into personal wealth.

• Greg on LinkedIn
• Recruitment Entrepreneur website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Abid Hamid on LinkedIn
• Elain Tyler on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#147 How to Make 40 Placements per Month by Setting High Standards, Speed, and Having Fun, with Elaine Tyler * TRR#124 How to Recession-Proof Your Recruitment Business While Accelerating Growth, with Abid Hamid

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Imagine starting your own recruitment agency with no recruiting experience and growing it to almost a million dollars in the first year.

Sounds unbelievable, right?

Yet that’s exactly what my special guest, Ben Cross, has accomplished in his first year in recruitment. In this interview, we break down exactly how he achieved those remarkable results.

Ben is the founder and CEO of GLOMO based in Dallas. GLOMO specializes in the global mobility industry providing talent search as well as consulting services in sales and marketing plus mergers and acquisitions.

So what’s the secret to Ben’s success? It comes down to an intangible asset that doesn’t appear on a balance sheet – his personal brand. Ben was already extremely well-known in his industry prior to launching his own business.

In this episode, you’ll learn how Ben became a micro-celebrity within his niche using the 3R formula: Reach, Relevance and Relationship.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:55] Ben’s background and his journey as a startup recruitment agency owner.
• [06:28] Ben explains the 3 R’s of personal branding - reach, relevance, relationship
• [08:01] The LOVE + RELO podcast - Spreading love and community building during the pandemic.
• [11:28] What is Global Mobility?
• [18:26] How setting up virtual conferences led to ‘unintended good stuff’.
• [24:58] What motivated Ben to start his own recruitment business?
• [28:35] A critical ingredient for recruitment business owners when starting or scaling.
• [33:52] What GLOMO has achieved this year and what key success factors?
• [42:07] Why should you consider raising your rates?
• [50:00] The value of meeting people in person to build personal relationships.
• [51:28] Failing daily! Ben’s biggest challenges in growing a business.
• [56:27] Things Ben would have done differently.
• [01:04:14] New offices in Dallas and challenging the work-from-home (WFH) setup.
• [01:08:21] What is next for GLOMO?

LOVE + RELO - Hosting Daily LinkedIn Live Streams During the Pandemic

Ben is a genius when it comes to personal branding - a skill that has translated well to his recruitment firm’s success. Ben has been creating content on LinkedIn since 2006. When the platform rolled out a Live Feature, he was one of the Beta testers to utilize the feature. It became his resolution on January 1st, 2020 to go live every day!

You will hear how their program - Love + Relo came about. It’s a LinkedIn Live stream for the Global Mobility industry where they interview leaders while responding to audience questions. In retrospect, his timing could not have been better. When this pandemic hit in March 2020, people were seeking that sense of connection and community that LOVE + RELO provided.

Ben’s live stream attracted speaking opportunities and invitations to host virtual conferences (and later in-person conferences) for trade associations in the global mobility space.

You will also hear about their Get Talent! Podcast - which has been a valuable way to connect with both clients and candidates. Ben explained the 3 keys when it comes to personal branding: Reach, Relevancy, and Relationships.

Secrets of Starting a Successful Recruitment Agency

How did GLOMO’s startup recruitment business perform in its first year?

Ben revealed, “We're coming on the end of the calendar year 2022, I think we are gonna be in the $950k range, I am proud of that.”

There could be several explanations for Ben’s rapid growth. For one, GLOMO was founded in June 2020 as a consulting firm. So Ben was adding recruiting and executive search to an already established business. Secondly, prior to launching GLOMO Ben was the VP of Sales for a moving company so he has a deep knowledge and understanding of the industry he serves. But that alone doesn’t explain his outstanding results.

Here are some of the factors that Ben attributes GLOMO’s success to:

• Leveraging his Personal Brand and the momentum of his LinkedIn content
• Hiring the right people, including an experienced and reliable fee-earner
• Giving to the community: creating meaningful content for their industry.
• Raising their rates above their competitors and overdelivering.

We also get into the nitty-gritty of starting a recruitment agency, from getting an ATS/CRM, building the systems and processes, LinkedIn Recruiter, and more.

Ben’s Perspective on Failing Daily

I asked Ben about the challenges and struggles he encountered and what he would have done differently.

What really resonated with me is Ben’s perspective on the importance of failure: “We fail daily, like every day, all day… If you are not failing, you are not trying. As business owners or professionals, we think that success is avoiding failures. It is not. It is about embracing them, learning from them, and even memorializing them in our mind palace and saying ‘I'm gonna pay homage to this ridiculous epic failure that I had’... We are really big in celebrating failures.”

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Ben Cross Bio and Contact Info

After 15 year career in the moving and relocation industry, Ben Cross quit his job to start a consulting and recruitment firm called GLOMO. In his first full year of recruiting, this small startup has billed over $1 million US dollars. Over the past three years, Ben has hosted over 400 episodes of his podcast "Love + Relo" which has become "the voice of the relocation industry".

He has also co-hosted a recruitment podcast called the Get Talent! Podcast which shares recruitment insights for hiring managers.

Ben's approach is to build reach, relevancy and relationships through Linkedin Live streams and hosting in-person events where he and his team build their personal brand's social capital. He also hosts conferences within his niche industries and speaks on numerous panels.

• Ben on LinkedIn
• GLOMO website link
• LOVE + RELO streaming link
• LOVE + RELO on YouTube
• Get Talent! Podcast link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Danny Herskowitz on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#150 How to Self-Destruct a $4M Search Firm and Re-Build on Stronger Foundations, with Mark Phillips

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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If you’ve ever tried to grow a recruitment firm, you understand the crazy balancing act of being an effective billing manager. It’s extremely challenging to hire, train and manage a team while at the same time maintaining your personal production.

That’s why I’m especially excited to share this interview with Darwin Shurig.

In addition to building a team of 11 people, Darwin is personally responsible for over $1.2M million in 2022. Darwin founded Shurig Solutions Inc. in 2015; based in Plainfield, Indiana, specializing in recruiting regulatory affairs, quality and engineering talent for the medical device and pharma industries.

Darwin was listed as an MRI Top 10 Managing Partner for 2020 and is the number 2 cash biller for revenue as a franchise owner within the MRI Network in 2022. Prior to joining the recruitment industry, Darwin has a clinical background of over 20 years of sales, operations and management within medical devices, diagnostics, medical distribution, and sleep therapy.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [04:48] Joining the recruiting game - what motivated Darwin to join the industry after 20 years of medical device distribution experience?
• [12:06] What is your WHY? Darwin explains the purpose that drives him.
• [15:11] Enormous success in a short period of time - critical success factors.
• [25:20] Darwin describes a typical day when he first started his business.
• [26:55] The value of content marketing when scaling a recruitment business.
• [31:00] Focusing on your DIG - discipline, industry, and geography.
• [34:14] The benefit of hosting webinars for your industry.
• [44:06] What is the expert interview strategy?
• [49:10] Darwin shares the most significant challenges he faced when growing his business.

How Darwin Achieved Consistent Growth in 7 Years

Never in a million years did Darwin imagine he would eventually become a recruiter. He joined the industry relatively late in his career - after 20 years experience in sales, management and operations roles in the medical device industry.

Darwin’s success in recruitment is astonishing given that he only joined the recruitment industry 7 years ago. Since 2015, he has incrementally increased his firm’s billings to $2.2m, with Darwin personally contributing $1.2M in 2022. At the same time, he has grown a team of 11 people.

I asked Darwin what he considers his success factors. Below is the recap of what he shared:

• Utilizing Digital Media and Automation
• Bringing value to other people that is not tied to revenue.
• Focus on your own skillset and what you can control - Attitude, Effort, and Focus.
• Clarity on your identity and sharing your value proposition.

The Importance of Adding Value to the Industry You Serve

Darwin mentioned one of the challenges in approach when joining the recruitment world is whether he wanted to be a generalist or a serious subject matter expert within the industry. He obviously went for the latter which resulted in leverage to scale his business. This is how he puts it:

“I think that is so important - you should never make decisions solely on money… You are bringing value to many people and I think that the Pinnacle Society is a great example of this… It is about what you can bring to the table and the value that you bring.”

Darwin shared how he started the SSI Educational Webinar Series as a way to add value to his ecosystem.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Darwin Shurig Bio and Contact Info

Darwin understands the key qualities that companies look for in candidates to grow market share while enhancing their positive culture and team environment. He has a clinical background of over 20 years, including 15 years of sales experience within: medical devices, diagnostics, medical distribution, and sleep therapy; 8 years in sales management success; 3 years in operations; and extensive experience in negotiations and business development before starting SSI. He founded Shurig Solutions, Inc. in 2015; Darwin is responsible for business development, contracting, marketing, and recruiting strategy, personally responsible for over $3.8 Million in revenue generation, created the SSI Educational Webinar series, created the “Candidate Experience- Best Practices Prep”, is a conference presenter for Talent Management Best Practices, a member of the esteemed Pinnacle Society, and leads the SSI team in daily marketing, BD and recruiting activities. Darwin was recently highlighted in the Creative Classics book “The American Entrepreneur” published in 2020, was listed as an MRI Top 10 Managing Partner for 2020, and is the number 2 cash biller for revenue as a franchise owner within the MRI Network in 2022. When Darwin is not in the office, Darwin loves sports, music, nature, charity, traveling, and spending time with his 3 children and wife, Jamie. He additionally has a serious addiction to anything with Peanut Butter!

• Darwin on LinkedIn
• Shurig Solutions Inc. website link
• Shurig Solutions Inc. on YouTube
• Shurig Solutions Inc. on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• Wes Ashworth on LinkedIn
• Sharon Hulce on LinkedIn
• Cathy Stewart on LinkedIn
• Joe Mullings on LinkedIn
• The Pinnacle Society website link

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#132 How to Break Out of a Slump and Bill an Amazing $420k in 5 Months, with Wes Ashworth * TRR#28 Recruiter Midlife Crisis: Boredom, Burnout and Reigniting Your Passion, with Sharon Hulce * TRR#142 How a Former Music Teacher Created Her Dream Life as a Top-Producing Recruiter, with Cathy Stewart * TRR#80 How to Use Video to Attract Candidates and Grow Your Recruitment Business, with Joe Mullings

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In this episode, you will hear how Emily Rushton grew her recruitment agency from start-up to $1M in profit in its first year and is on track to reach $3M profit in its second year!

What’s her secret?

There’s a clue in her company’s name - the keyword here is “integrated.” Emily is the Founder and CEO of Hire Integrated, a fast-growing recruiting agency based in Utah. They launched in January 2021 and in less than two years have scaled to a team of 20 employees.

In this fun and informative conversation, Emily shared how specialized recruiting at scale and client integration were key to their success. She also shared how their proactive approach and continuous evolution give them a positive outlook despite challenging market conditions.

Emily started her career in staffing at Robert Half where she ranked among the top 20 recruiters out of 11,000 employees. Since then she has built two other boutique firms and also recruited for Netflix, where she helped them write their now industry-leading playbook with best-in-class practices to help them find and hire new talent.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [04:33] “I didn’t even know what a recruiter was” … How a willingness to cold call helped Emily land her first job at a recruitment agency.
• [09:20] How to excel during an economic downturn; the key mindset shift that enabled Emily becoming a top-producer during a recession.
• [12:53] Client Integration – what it means and why it’s important.
• [16:50] Helping companies hire better: specialized hiring at scale.
• [20:14 Staring a recruitment business - how Emily won her first 3-4 clients.
• [23:30] Key milestones: hitting $1m in revenue by Q3, $1m in profit in 12 months and on track for $3m profit in year two.
• [30:22] What industries does Hire Integrated specialize in?
• [35:51] Service lines offered by Hire Integrated.
• [45:51] Emily’s playbook for strategically developing client relationships.
• [52:52] How to build an account from a single point of contact to gaining access to multiple senior stakeholders.
• [55:27] The Hire Integrated approach - how to integrate successfully with client companies.
• [1:01:30] Emily’s growth plans for 2023.

Consistent Tenacity in Early Days

Emily shared a fascinating story of how she got into recruiting - she had no idea what she wanted to be when she was about to graduate. Following her professor’s advice, she started cold-calling companies to present her skillset in looking for a job. She was at a job fair and she shared what she was doing with a recruiter, which led to her discovering the career of recruitment.

From there, Emily started her career in staffing at Robert Half, where she ranked among the top 20 recruiters out of 11,000 employees. Interestingly, she started her career during the recession. Having an awareness that she could lose her job, she was determined that if it will happen, she will have no regrets knowing that she went all out.

“There was this level of tenacity that came out early on in my career. In every single opportunity I had, I didn’t lose it. I held on to everything so tight and I made sure that I closed it. During that first recession that I ever worked, I made the most money in my career, I was a top performer.”

This mindset of tenacity laid the foundation for Emily’s career as a recruiter and ultimately led to her starting her own recruitment firm in 2021.

Getting USD 1M in Profit in Their First Year

When Emily made the decision to launch her own business, with her own money, she was committed to going “all in” to making it work.

Incredibly, Hire Integrated reached $1M in profit by the end of their first year. Emily outlines the two critical things she ensured to have in place when starting Hire Integrated:

• Focusing on building the brand.
• Putting together an advisory board with thought leaders she can trust.

They did not have any business during the first couple of months. Emily really focused on these two items making sure that the foundation is the first time right. In Q3, they were able to hit the USD 1M revenue.

With the current market conditions, Emily still shows the same relentless tenacity as it was in the early days of her career. “With the current market conditions, we are proactively making some shifts to make sure that if we continue to shift, we are prepared to have our best years. Because we are so new, we have a lot of runways ahead of us.”

Client Integration and Engagement

One key success factor in Hire Integration’s successful trajectory is how they ensure that they understand their clients - offering the best long-term solutions possible. As Emily explains, “As we are putting together these proposals or having these conversations as they go higher and higher in the chain of command… it is hitting on the relevant pain points… We have been successful for a handful of those companies for making it up to chains of command and getting those proposals because we’ve listened, we’ve been more than a recruiter, we understand the evolution to where they are headed, and we put together very appropriate proposals that are going to help them get to where they are going faster.”

Many recruiters find it challenging to engage with the C-Suite, especially if they’re currently dealing with in-house recruiters or mid level hiring managers. Emily shared her strategies and approach to how she reaches the senior stakeholders to present much higher value recruitment solutions.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Emily Rushton Bio and Contact Info

Emily Rushton started her career with one of the World’s largest staffing firms. Rushton quickly rose through the ranks, placing among the top 20 recruiters, out of approximately 11,000 employees. Rushton was an equity partner at a boutique staffing firm with locations in Tennessee and Utah. Her primary involvement was the implementation of their temporary staffing division which provided a substantial revenue stream for the company. Presented with a rare opportunity to join ownership offerings with a local Utah recruiting company, Rushton spent 6 years of her career creating a new division for the company that increased revenue by 185%. During that time, she was featured by Utah Business Magazine as a Utah Forty Under 40 for her contribution to the Utah employment sector. Rushton attended Brigham Young University – Idaho and is happily married with one beautiful son.

• Emily on LinkedIn
• Hire Integrated website link

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Most recruiters say that Equity, Diversity and Inclusion is important but haven’t actually updated their recruitment process accordingly. There’s a big difference between talking about ED&I and making a real commitment to implement it.

This is why a lot of the discussion around this topic is performative while in reality the candidate shortlists recruiters are presenting to clients are largely made up of the “usual suspects.”

In this challenging episode, it was my pleasure to interview a prominent champion of ED&I, Jo Major. Jo brings 22 years of recruitment industry experience and founded Diversity in Recruitment because of her drive to get ED&I on the agenda of recruitment teams. She believes recruiters can influence and lead the change needed to tackle underrepresentation in UK employment.

Through training and advice, she helps recruiters get to grips with ED&I and gives them the insight, tools, and confidence to attract diverse talent, make their processes equitable and accessible, and recruit inclusively and confidently partner with their clients and hiring managers.

Jo believes that a candidate's identity, background, and circumstances should never be the reason they don't make it into the recruitment process. If you are on the quest of helping your candidates, clients, and your own team, to align with ED&I principles, Jo’s insights and practical advice will be of help to you.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [04:37] ED&I - Jo’s insights on its importance to the recruitment industry.
• [08:17] What motivated Jo to focus on training instead of recruiting?
• [13:1]1 How impostor syndrome affected Jo when starting her business.
• [18:18] How Diversity in Recruitment supports recruitment businesses.
• [23:05] Jo discusses the “Performative Tickbox Exercise.”
• [27:58] How can recruiters support their clients in inclusive, accessible, and equitable hiring?
• [34:57] How can recruiters make a difference in the area of ED&I?
• [38:37] Why ED&I complements a retained solution for clients.
• [46:04] The critical role of equity in making the recruitment process more inclusive.
• [49:01] How job descriptions can include points of ‘de-selection’.
• [53:10] The most essential steps on ED&I from a recruitment standpoint.
• [59:25] Can ED&I only be afforded by big recruitment companies?

How Diversity in Recruitment Supports Recruitment Businesses

Jo’s two decades of recruitment industry experience gives her a valuable perspective on how diversity, inclusion, and equity should be aligned with the profession of recruitment. She also has a strong drive and passion for this topic.

This was the motivation behind launching her training business, Diversity in Recruitment. How does her organization support recruitment firms to include ED&I in their agenda? “I tend to take a training and advisory approach rather than a consultancy,” stated Jo. “I am a massive fan of module learning - bite-sized accessible training rather than days and days talking about new concepts to recruiters.” Below are some ways in which they can help recruitment businesses:

• Understanding what is diversity and inclusion in the recruitment setting.
• Understanding unconscious bias, hiring habits, and preferences.
• Practical steps on how to make recruitment accessible and equitable and inclusive.
• How to attract under-represented talent.
• How to package your job differently from the way that you have always done.
• Turning marketing strategy to engage candidates not currently on your network.
• Moving away from the cookie-cutter approach.
• Looking at how to have conversations with clients.

ED&I - Is Making a Difference Really Worth It?

Let’s face it - making a difference can be challenging and overwhelming, especially for smaller businesses. In an environment where recruitment businesses have targets and placements to meet, the task of embedding ED&I in the core of their businesses can seem enormous. So you may ask, is it worth undertaking this challenge?

This is how Jo puts it, which for me makes perfect sense. “This will help you be better at your job. This will help you reach more candidates and increase your talent pools. This will help you win more business. This will help you develop long-term relationships with your clients. This will differentiate you from your competitors. It will get you to think about additional products and services.”

The next question is, how do you help your team to be aligned with the principles of equity, diversity, and inclusion? And how do you support your clients in doing the same? Jo has provided several meaningful ideas that can help you as a recruiter and recruitment business owner.

My biggest takeaway from the interview with Jo is that recruitment leaders must start their ED&I journey with their own internal recruitment process. Take a look at your existing team and internal hiring practices. Before you start advising clients on ED&I, make sure you’ve taking steps to implement it within your own business.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Jo Major Bio and Contact Info

Jo has a twenty-year+ career in the recruitment space behind her. Her work has helped to grow businesses, schools, charities, and enterprises, and has shaped the careers of some outstanding humans.

Jo has developed strategic D&I, Social Mobility & CSR programs that build and improve recruitment team culture, engage employees, attract underrepresented talent and make recruitment businesses better places to work and partner with.

She founded Diversity in Recruitment because of her absolute drive to get D&I on the agenda of recruitment teams, no matter what their size and capacity – Jo believes that recruiters have the opportunity to influence and lead real change

• Jo on LinkedIn
• Diversity in Recruitment website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Ben Broughton on LinkedIn
• Chikere Igbokwe on LInkedIn
• Ann Swain on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#12 The Commercial Value of Diversity and Inclusion in Recruitment with Raj Tulsiani * TRR#57 Diversity as a Differentiator - How Recruiters Can Attract 70% More Diverse Talent, with Helen McGuire * TRR#102 How Recruiters Can Promote Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, with Chikere Igbokwe * TRR#114 Growing a Recruitment Startup to £1.1 Million in Only Five Months

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Many recruiters are feeling anxious about the economy. Are you concerned about how a slowdown might affect your billings in 2023?

My special guest, Gail Audibert, has been a recruiter since 1984 and has survived four recessions. In this episode, Gail shares the steps she took in previous downturns to protect her business and achieve consistent, predictable billings.

Gail is a member of the Pinnacle Society and remains one of the top recruiters in the country while only working 20 hours per week. In this interview, she reveals how she designed her business around her family and her secrets to working less and making more.

Gail launched Gail Audibert Associates in 1988, specializing in Commercial Insurance. She’s the VP of the Pinnacle Society and President-elect for 2023. She’s a former president of the National Insurance Recruiting Association and its current education chair. She also served on the Board of the Connecticut Association of Personnel Services for close to 20 years.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:37] Why getting fired from her first sales job was a blessing in disguise.
• [07:05] How Gail built a successful business while putting her family first.
• [13:34] Key differentiators and success factors.
• [19:52] Doing well during a recession.
• [27:06] Gail’s strategy for winning RPO business that pays a monthly retainer.
• [31:23] Mindset and strategies to thrive in tough times.
• [34:42] The value of joining industry associations and attending events.
• [40:21] Identifying opportunities to offer an RPO model.
• [50:16] Insights on dealing with talent acquisition.
• [53:23] Gail’s non-negotiables when working with clients.

Designing Her Business Around Her Family

Given Gail’s career longevity and success in recruitment, it would be easy to assume that she had been working really hard with long hours, making sacrifices for her business and profession. On the contrary, Gail considers it her success that she is able to build her business around her family. She leveraged the flexibility of our industry to raise her family and be there for every sick day, snow day, and other activity of her children. She never let her work to-do list get in the way.

Gail works 20 to 25 hours a week and still manages to be really productive. “I don’t think I waste a lot of time on things that are unnecessary.” That includes positions that she isn’t confident of filling … “If I think that it is unplaceable, I just drop it. I call the company and tell them ‘this isn’t going to fly’.” Gail also believes that this job should get easier over time because you know more people, explaining “I have a very strong database of candidates or people that I know that makes it easier.”

Gail went on and also shared her success factors - making her a consistent top producer and becoming an esteemed member of the Pinnacle Society. Some takeaways are as follows:

• Building relationships and a strong network in her niche.
• Understanding the benefits of industry associations.
• Mindset, attitude and accountability.

How to Sell Recruitment Process Outsourcing (RPO)

Gail revealed that one of her secrets to survive and thrive during a recession. She explained how she pitched an RPO (recruitment process outsourcing) business model to some of her clients. She structured this in a way that was truly a win-win. It was extremely beneficial for her clients’ cashflow while giving Gail predictable revenue during a downturn.

During slow economic times, many recruiters drop their rates. Gail didn’t reduce her fees but instead let her clients spread out the payments over a longer timeframe. That reduced the up-front cost of recruiting for her clients, enabling them to continue hiring. This was a solution that her client’s CFO loved and gave Gail steady cash-flow as well.

Gail still offers an RPO business model - but only if she firmly believes that this model is aligned with her client’s needs. How is she able to identify those opportunities? Listen to the full interview to hear Gail’s insights and actual examples of how it worked for her.

Doing Well During a Recession

If there is a timely topic that all of us can relate to, it is having the right mindset towards a recession. I have experienced a few recessions myself and although it was painful at the time, those experiences were so valuable and enable me to guide our coaching clients through turbulent waters.

Gail has survived and thrived at least four recessions! It is normal to feel anxious and worried. Here are the golden nuggets I took away from my conversation with Gail:

• There are always opportunities in any market - but you’ll miss them if you’re not actively looking / listening for them!
• Focus on helping your clients and candidates through difficult times to build career long relationships.
• When other recruiters slow down, give up or quit the industry, you must keep going!

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Gail Audibert Bio and Contact Info

Gail has been a recruiter since 1984 (having started before the adoption of the fax machine, Personal Computer, cell phones, and the internet). Her specialty is Commercial Insurance. Gail is a member of the Pinnacle Society and is currently the VP and President-elect for 2023. She is also a former president of the National Insurance Recruiting Association and its current education chair. Gail served on the Board of the Connecticut Association of Personnel Services for close to 20 years and was also a "40 under 40" recipient.

• Gail on LinkedIn
• Audibert Associates website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Pinnacle Society website link
• Danny Cahill on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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When Leanne ran her own recruitment business, she managed to claw back 25 hours of her time PER WEEK by implementing automation strategies and hiring 4 offshore virtual assistants.

When was the last time you reviewed your full recruiting process and identified the recurring tasks? Are you still manually using spreadsheets and doing everything manually?

Doing everything manually instead of leveraging automation is costing you precious time and constraining your growth. In this episode, we will share the top three benefits of leveraging automation, parts of your business you can automate, and the do’s and don’ts when running automated campaigns.

Episodes Outline and Highlights

• [01:16] The downside of doing everything manually instead of leveraging automation.
• [02:40] Three benefits of automation based on our own experience.
• [09:17] Automation should not replace the human touch or personalized approach.
• [13:25] What parts of your business can you automate?
• [15:04] Do you have a consistent nurturing process for your clients and candidate leads?
• [18:20] Steps you can take now.
• [21:21] The Dont’s - automation mistakes that cost you sales and reputation.
• [28:33] Tips on creating a personalized feel when writing messages for automation.
• [30:00] Preview of our next episode.

The 3 Big Reasons Why You Need to Leverage Automation

In our experience, these are the three reasons why you need to leverage automation ASAP:

1. Save time - Leanne personally implemented automation in her business and saved 25 hours per week! Although it did not happen overnight, it was absolutely worth it.
2. Better client and candidate experience - This is counter-intuitive but the time you save by automating certain tasks allows you to provide a more personalized customer. A smooth end-to-end experience for the clients and candidates also increases the probability of repeat business.
3. Automation is key in getting off the feast and famine roller coaster - Automation helps with keeping your sales pipeline full even when you’re busy delivering on current assignments. It enables you to have both your candidate sourcing and business development machines running on autopilot in the background.

We are not saying that automation replaces the more personalized approach when dealing with clients and candidates - picking up the phone, making personalized video messages, and other activities that provide that essential human touch. What automation actually gives you is time to be more personalized as it allows you to invest time in the right areas of your business.

What Can You Automate in Your Recruitment Business

The easiest place to start with by looking at your current recruitment process. What are the repetitive tasks that could potentially be automated?

For example:

1. Recruiting / candidate outreach
2. Business development / client outreach
3. Marketing / lead nurture campaigns

You can start by writing all the steps in your sourcing and recruiting process and look at which of those steps you could leverage automation.

Keep in mind that this is not an email broadcast. These are smaller, highly targeted and personalized campaigns that feel like a one-to-one message.

Automation Errors That Cost You Sales and Damage Your Reputation

We’re big believers in the power of automation to grow your business. Having said that, automation done incorrectly can have negative consequences.

Here are two common mistakes to avoid when creating automated campaigns. These tasks need to be done manually either by you or a member of your team:

1. Make sure you’re targeting the right people!

It sounds obvious, but it’s a complete waste of time sending messages to people who aren’t relevant. It’s essential to inspect the recipient list and confirm that they are relevant recipients before hitting send. Don’t rely completely on automation and get carried away to the point that it loses effectiveness.

1. Avoid these “personalization” blunders

If you get personalization wrong, it has the exact opposite effect. It’s becomes obvious your message is automated and elicits a negative response.

For example, putting someone’s name in ALL CAPS. Or using their full company name - e.g. International Business Machines Corporation, instead of IBM. (Think about it, if you were writing a personal note to somebody, you probably wouldn’t include Inc, Ltd or LLC in the company name, would you?)

You or ideally your VA need to clean up your spreadsheet to ensure that the job title, name, and other data points are correct and natural sounding before adding anyone to an automated campaign.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

People and Resources Mentioned

• Leanne on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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If you believe in providing personalized customer service, you’ll love my interview with Frido Diepeveen.

In this episode, Frido shared his wealth of experience from 17 years in recruitment and how his Dutch-Hungarian upbringing influenced his service-oriented approach toward his clients and candidates.

Born in the Netherlands, Frido trained as a lawyer before discovering his true passion in recruitment and executive search in 2005. That’s when he joined a recruitment firm and helped the founder grow to 55 employees before selling it to Randstad in 2010.

After the transaction, he remained on the board as Commercial Director and helped the new owner achieve 20-30% year-on-year growth. He stayed with Randstad until 2018 when he decided to start a new recruitment firm from scratch.

Frido is now the MD of Diepeveen & Partners, a boutique search firm with a team of 15 based in Budapest, Hungary, and serving clients in North America and Europe.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [04:49] What inspired Frido to change careers from banking to recruitment?
• [14:30] Key lessons that Frido gained from his first recruitment job.
• [17:25] How Frido defines “personalized service.”
• [24:13] How to handle candidates you can’t help and those you can’t place right away.
• [28:49] Frido’s insights on cultural sensitivity when dealing with key stakeholders.
• [31:32] Success factors in rapidly growing a recruitment business.
• [39:50] Can you position your firm to recruit at all levels, from junior positions right up to senior leadership roles?
• [43:05] How Frido has grown a boutique search firm from scratch to a team of 15
• [52:16] Outsourcing to Hungary - how Frido provides candidate sourcing and recruiting services to other recruitment companies around the world

Loving the Recruitment Profession

Before becoming a recruiter, Frido worked in banking - first as an in-house counsel and then in a commercial role as an account manager. It was in 2005 that he found his true calling as a recruitment professional. In 2005 he was asked to join a recruitment firm in a start-up phase, called ProfiPower. Founded by Dutch-Hungarian entrepreneur Ilonka Jankovich, he later became an equity partner and they were able to build the business into a market-leading recruitment firm in Hungary. Prior to selling it to Randstad in 2010, they had a team of 55 employees! What were the factors that led to such rapid growth? Frido shared two factors:

• Service Orientation - they stick to the principle of delivering personalized service.
• The Dutch way of being straightforward - doing what you say and saying what you do.

What Does Delivering a Personalized Service Look Like?

How does Frido define personalized service? Pretty much all recruitment firms will say that they offer personalized service to their customers.

Fido explained their approach, “Many of my clients have become personal friends over the years… Being personal to me means that you should not see an assignment as one of the many but you should consider it as a unique job that you are so lucky to get to work on.”

Frido elaborated on his commitment to client service. For example, he always meets his clients in person regardless of where they’re located. That involves lots of international travel. Why bother jumping on a plane to see a client when he could meet on Zoom or Teams? He explained how his mindset on personalized service builds chemistry and long-term relationships with his clients and candidates which eventually results to repeat business.

Quality Over Quantity

In 2018, Frido started his own recruitment firm from scratch - Diepeveen & Partners International. He leveraged his experience and learnings from his previous organizations. His own firm is rooted in the solid philosophy of quality comes before quantity. This philosophy not only guides the organization on the services they provide to their clients but on how they handle their own employees as well. They ensure that their 15 team members are not overworked and assigned reasonable assignments - improving their quality of work and output.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Frido Diepeveen Bio and Contact Info

Frido is the founder of Diepeveen & Partners. Having obtained a law degree in international and civil law (Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam), he started his career in 1998 as an in-house lawyer at the head office of Abn Amro Bank in Amsterdam. In 2001, Frido moved to Hungary, continuing his finance career at another Dutch financial institution, ING Bank. During this time, he had the opportunity to gain a deep understanding of the Hungarian financial sector and to become fluent in the Hungarian language. After four years of back-office as well as front office positions, he found his true calling.

In 2005, he started a career in HR consulting and (executive) search. From 2005 to 2010, Frido co-owned and co-managed the recruitment firm ProfiPower that went on to become Hungary’s market leader in 2008. In 2010, the firm was sold to a listed company, which has since then become the world’s largest HR services company. After selling ProfiPower, for seven successful years, he continued as commercial director of the newly merged company. He then founded Diepeveen & Partners in 2018. They have now expanded globally and specializing in specific fields, such as SCM, Pharma and Professional Services.

• Frido on LinkedIn
• Diepeveen & Partners website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Abid Hamid on LInkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#48 Recruitment Entrepreneur: How to Start-Up and Scale an Exitable Recruitment Business, with Abid Hamid

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Imagine building a search firm from scratch to $4M in billings. An incredible achievement, right? Now imagine that same business suddenly imploding from 14 team members down to just one. How would you bounce back from such a devastating loss? Would you have the heart and will to rebuild?

This is the story of my special guest, Mark Phillips. Mark is the founder and CEO of HireEducation and in this interview, he shares his journey with unflinching honesty and self-reflection. He takes ownership of the behaviours and decisions that led to the decline of the business. Based on the lessons he learned from both his successes and failures, Mark is rebuilding his business and himself - this time on stronger foundations.

Mark got into recruiting in the late 90s and has specialized in the Education Technology industry since 2006. He launched his firm HireEducation in 2010 and by 2019 he built it into a $4M per year business. That same year, he faced his biggest challenge. You will now hear what he’s doing differently to build an even more successful business that he enjoys a whole lot more.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:34] How Mark knows our mutual friend, Jordan Rayboy.
• [04:38] Thoughts on recruiters as non-conformists.
• [12:47] How to build trust with people quickly.
• [25:26] Growing a firm from nothing to a $4m annual run rate.
• [40:41] The value of hiring someone to do the things you’re not good at.
• [44:23] Overcoming a massive upheaval in 2019.
• [52:40] Learning from hindsight - Mark’s retrospect on his most significant challenges led to him rebuilding his firm.
• [1:06:15] Mark’s core value in rebuilding his team.
• [1:09:40] What is now being done differently in Mark’s second version of his business?

Building From Scratch to a $4M Annual Run Rate

Mark shared the key success factors that contributed to growing a $4m search firm in 9 years. There were a number of challenges they needed to overcome which anyone growing a recruitment businesses will relate to. The two biggest success factors were:

• Market mastery - having an organized approach to his market.
• Hiring in 3’s - as it takes the same amount to train 3 people as it does to train 1 person.

Hire Someone to Manage You

Another significant success factor that Mark mentioned is the value of hiring an assistant. Mark’s longest serving employee, Katie, was originally hired as his assistant and has contributed so much and developed her leadership skills to the point that she was recently promoted to CEO.

What is the added value of his assistant? “Operational details are not my strong suit. I am acknowledging that. When I hired Katie back in 2014, I said ‘your first job is to manage me and your second job is to manage my inbox.’” This actually makes a lot of sense. In our coaching group, we emphasize the value of hiring someone, like a virtual assistant, that can support you on administrative tasks or operational undertakings while you focus on your business’ vision and income-generating tasks. This is how Mark puts it, “Having somebody that I trusted operationally was really key from getting from $1M to $4M.”

Extreme Ownership: Improving Your Results Requires You to Own Your Mistakes

In 2019, Mark’s business imploded, shrinking from 14 people back down to 1. That was a really rough experience for Mark which led to a lot of soul-searching and shifts in personal and business focus. At the height of their success, Mark was really stressed and not sleeping well due to significant issues from his working environment. Due to cultural misalignment, a rift developed between Mark and some of his key employees who he had brought on and promoted to Partner level. Ultimately, this led Mark and his top billers to part ways, which snowballed into losing almost his entire team. It was a truly heartbreaking experience.

In retrospect, Mark is able to analyze the situation and identify his own role in the decline of the business. As Mark described, “When I think about that time, my relationship with those three partners and team members, was not first. Consequently, it was a house of cards… In the end, it was not relationship first”. This lead him to establish a new core value when he rebuilt his business, which is to always protect the team.

You will truly appreciate Mark’s candor and humility in sharing this experience, which can also be a learning moment for all of us.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Mark Phillips Bio and Contact Info

Mark first into recruiting in the late 90s and then moved into the Education Technology industry in 2006. He built his firm from a solo desk in 2010 to a $4M run rate in 2019. As a member of the SanfordRose Network, Mark has coached recruiters to the following accolades: 3 Rookies of the Year, 2 Top recruiters in the network, and multiple top 10 in the network performances. His firm recruits for education companies, not schools, but companies that sell products and services to PreK, K12, and Higher Education institutions.

• Mark on LinkedIn
• Hire Education website link
• Hire Education on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• How to Build an 8-Figure Recruitment Business That Runs Without You webinar link
• Jordan Rayboy on LinkedIn
• Problem Prospecting by Richard Smith
• Rocket Fuel book Gino Wickman
• Joel Slenning on LinkedIn
• Yosef Colish on LinkedIn
• Rich Roll podcast

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#133 How this Top Producing Recruiter is Putting Health, Fitness, and Family First, with Jordan Rayboy * TRR#16 The Mindset of a Million-Dollar Biller During the Pandemic, with Yosef Colish

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It always fascinates me to hear stories of recruitment business owners who succeed despite the most challenging circumstances. My special guest, David Fleming, shares an astounding story of both personal resilience and recruitment success.

David is the Managing Partner of Acuity Partners, the search brand from Stanton House. David established the business this year and is already on track for a 7 figure Net Fee Income in their first full year. Acuity Partners delivers leadership searches for C-Suite and Director level mandates within technology-led businesses and investors. David has 25 years of experience in recruitment and has run multi-million-pound P&L managing teams of over 100 consultants.

In this episode, David shares how having a set of clear values embedded in each team member plays a vital role in their success. Also, you will hear David’s story of resilience and how it influenced the way he leads his team and how it moved him to prioritize taking care of their mental health.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:04] How David got started in recruitment.
• [08:21] From 3 to 8 people in 8 months: FOUR key factors for rapid growth.
• [17:23] The role of curiosity in delivering insight and market intelligence to customers.
• [27:30] Can a young person without extensive commercial experience be successful in executive search?
• [36:06] David talks about Acuity’s values and their impact on performance.
• [42:22] One of David’s greatest achievements as a fee earner.
• [47:06] Excellent customer experience: bringing value to your clients and helping people without expecting anything in return.
• [54:27] Discussion on mental health in the recruitment industry. David shares his journey.
• [1:00:03] Acuity’s “Empathy Series”.
• [1:02:50] What is next for Acuity?

Four Key Factors for Rapid Growth

When David started Acuity Partners in February this year, their vision is crystal clear: To enable individuals and businesses to outperform by relentlessly connecting brilliant people. Starting with 3 staff, they now have 8 people in their team and are on track to reach 7 figures in net fee income. What is the secret sauce leading up to this success? He gave four factors:

• Building a business out of a successful business. His 25 years of recruiting experience with two recruitment businesses enabled him to have a network and client base. As the executive search brand of Stanton House, they are able to build on the philosophies and values of their sister company.

• Developing Expertise - they build deep and narrow expertise on the market they are supporting, which is the growth market.

• Customer Experience - delivering excellent customer experience gives them referrals, picking up business by osmosis.

• Unique Value Proposition - they focus on building a proposition tailored to their market.

Values that Influence Success

David also shared the values that drive their culture and underpin their search methodology. He revealed how their recruiters embody the values and how it motivates them to be curious and interested in their clients. Here is the outline of the values he shared:

• Relentless - “Today's customers expect a search firm to deliver a result... We are committed to doing what it takes to find the global skills for each role.”

• Incisive - “I believe consultants must work hard enough to have an opinion, saying you are an expert in search is not enough anymore, you have to be able to challenge a customer on their thinking, and what can be achieved through the hire to add value and earn your fee.”

• Humble - “Our business is very low ego. We have no hierarchy. We aim to adapt processes to our clients, especially when working with customers who are entering new markets where there is little precedence on roles to work from. Ideas that inform progress must come from everyone.”

Taking Care of Mental Health

David just had their second child when he started with Stanton House. After three months, their newborn son was diagnosed with a condition called Hydrocephalus (water on the brain). The baby required 25 different instances of emergency brain surgery, 6 of which were during David’s first year with Stanton House. David would frequently spend all night in the hospital and then make his way to the office in the morning and try and build a desk, something he hadn't done for 10 years.

This had a monumental impact on his mental health, self-confidence, and ability to bring his best self to work. Seeing his kid battle this over the last 11 years has impacted how David leads his team and how he looks after his own and his team’s mental health. The team at Stanton House created what they call the Empathy Series. It is a program that was launched in their wider business to support their people in understanding each other as they seek to appreciate the anxieties and challenges their people are dealing with.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

David Fleming Bio and Contact Info

David Fleming has been in recruitment for 25 years across two businesses. Badenoch & Clark and since then Stanton House. He started as a consultant placing interim finance professionals into Telecoms clients and quickly went on to lead and grow that team to become a leading performer in the company. Before taking on more teams and running the London business before taking on further regional responsibilities, he was promoted to Director at that time, helped by starting up the Transformation and Marketing practices (multi-million NFI P&Ls) for the company, and led teams of over 100 consultants.

David left B+C shortly after the Adecoo acquisition and joined Nick and Neil at Stanton House. His time at Stanton House has seen him grow and lead many parts of the business (A&F, Transformation, our business in London) before setting up Acuity Partners.

He have always been motivated by building businesses and through speaking to and connecting with interesting people. Setting up the Acuity business allows David to combine working with some exceptional clients who are making a huge impact in the world.

• David on LinkedIn
• Acuity Partners website link
• Stanton House website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Nick Eaves on LinkedIn
• Rob Green on LinkedIn
• Alexis Eva Alvarez on LinkedIn
• Alexis’ podcast: Take the Stage Podcast

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#119 How to Achieve an Amazing Customer Experience for Both Clients and Candidates, with Nick Eaves

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Building a recruitment business in the Middle East and Asia presents opportunities as well as challenges. My special guest, Justin McGuire has successfully expanded his firm into MENA and APAC, becoming very knowledgeable about these markets in the process.

This is Justin’s second time on the show and I am excited to have him again. In addition to providing fantastic insight into doing business in the MENA and APAC regions, Justin shares his experience growing his team from 12 to 30 people.

But there have been plenty of challenges and detours along the way. For example, Justin discusses his failed attempt to open a London office and everything he learned from that experience.

Justin is the CEO and co-founder of MCG Talent - a talent consulting firm specializing in creative, communications and marketing people across the Middle East and Asia. Justin spent 8 years working for well-known creative agencies before jumping into recruitment for the last 15 years. MCG Talent have ambitious plans for continued growth and have set their sights on opening offices in new countries and scaling the team to 50 people.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:11] Dramatic changes since Justin’s previous appearance on the show.
• [05:33] Justin shares what recruiting market looks like in the Middle East and Asia.
• [13:15] What’s the biggest shock in building a successful business in the Middle East?
• [20:50] Dealing with cultural differences - how did Justin make it work?
• [30:00] Managing across multiple countries and time zones - why finding the right business partner was critical.
• [35:20] Learning from mistakes - Why the London office did not work out?
• [40:53] Deciding factors on when to open a new office in a different region vs scaling in the current location.
• [48:25] Business management - key practices to scale your recruitment firm.
• [58:54] Justin’s take on 2023 recession predictions.

Catching Up with Justin - Updates Since His Last Episode Appearance

Justin’s last appearance was a couple of years, more than a hundred episodes ago in which he shared radical ideas on their global recruitment offices and how they get to scale. This time, he brings me up to speed on what has changed since then.

The last time we spoke, Justin was in Singapore. He has since relocated his family back to Dubai and refocused on the markets they excel in - the Middle East and Asia for roles in the marketing, communications, and technology.

He explains, “During COVID we really understood the need for a niche where we were doing well and where people were leaning on us.” This move served them well and they’ve grown from a team of 12, they are now a group of 30 people and still scaling to the 30-50 person stage.

Focusing on the Middle East and Asia Territories

Justin’s decision to focus on the Marketing Communications and Tech niche in the Middle East and Asia regions brings opportunities as well as challenges. For a lot of my recruiters and recruitment business owner listeners, the MENA and APAC region is unchartered territory.

You will be interested to know what recruiting is like in those regions compared to the European or North American territories. What are the cultural differences? What would be Justin’s biggest shocking revelation? But most importantly, I am sure you are interested to know, how did Justin make it work?

Business Management Practices When Scaling Internationally

Justin shared so many important factors to consider, including:

• When to scale in the same location versus setting up a new office.
• The importance of finding the right partner.
• How outsourcing can be a game-changer.
• How to manage cultural differences within your team.

In addition, we discussed how Justin made the transition from Big Biller to Billing Manager to Business Manager. Most owners aren’t able to navigate these steps and get stuck as a producer with a small team. For example, how and when do you come off a desk? If you’re a big biller, how do you replace your production in order to focus more time on growing the business?

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Justin McGuire Bio and Contact Info

Justin began my professional career in London at the start of the digital boom, working in client servicing for a fantastic communications agency. During his seven years in the industry, he had the pleasure of working for some of the world’s most celebrated brands alongside some of the most talented and creative people in the industry, many of them have since gone on to become business leaders. Having reached the Director level, he was charged with recruiting talent for his own team as well as playing a key role in developing the agency’s digital offering and taking it to market. It was at this point that his passion for recruitment became apparent and he resolved to change his career. He joined a headhunting firm based in the heart of London, creating and managing the advertising and media division. It was there that opportunity knocked and Justin was approached by a leading multi-national recruitment company and invited to set up their advertising and media business. Following a thoroughly enjoyable and rewarding two years, he felt that with my experience in the communication industry combined with my recruitment training and market knowledge, he was perfectly positioned to set up his own enterprise. MCG Talent was born in 2010 with a single vision: to connect the best businesses with the brightest talent in the marketing, communications, and digital space, enabling progress for businesses and individuals alike. Justin lived and worked in London, Singapore, and Dubai. He also spent a year doing charity work in Tegucigalpa, Honduras. He proudly invested in diversely.io - a diversity hiring platform and also co-founded and successfully exited a learning and development business called Ampersand.

• Justin on LinkedIn
• MCG Talent on LinkedIn
• Diversely.io - a diversity hiring platform supported by Justin.
• Ampersand - a learning and development business co-founded by Justin.

People and Resources Mentioned

• Helen McGuire on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#57 Diversity as a Differentiator – How Recruiters Can Attract 70% More Diverse Talent, with Helen McGuire * TRR#42 Childhood Friends Who Are Building a Global Recruitment Empire with Offices in 10 Countries, with Dan Matthews and Justin McGuire

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Want to know how a fast-growing recruitment firm generates 40 placements per month with a small team of only 11 people?

Then you’re going to love my interview with Elaine Tyler. She’s the CEO of Venatrix, a London based agency that specializes in recruiting and training SDRs for SaaS companies.

In 2015, Elaine partnered with James Caan and his recruitment venture capital firm, Recruitment Entrepreneur, to launch Venatrix. Since then, her company has consistently been one of the top performing businesses in the RE portfolio and she expects to double her headcount and turnover in the next 18 months.

What are the secrets to her success? Elaine shared so many golden nuggets, from branding and marketing strategies to creating a unique selling proposition that benefits both clients and candidates.

Elaine explained her sales and delivery model in detail and revealed the secret sauce that enables Venatrix to get such high performance and productivity from a relatively small team while achieving a Glassdoor score of 4.8.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:29] Elaine’s first recruitment job.
• [05:17] Starting a recruiting career during the credit crunch in 2008.
• [08:31] Selection criteria when recruiting for Sales Development Reps (SDRs).
• [11:59] Why Elaine chose to collaborate with Recruitment Entrepreneur.
• [17:02] Venatrix’s growth for the past seven years.
• [20:07] The power of hosting events and building a community.
• [25:01] Strategies for building a brand on LinkedIn.
• [31:50] Contributing factors to getting a 4.8 Rating on Glassdoor.
• [36:47] Representing the right clients - how to ensure you select the right partners.
• [39:24] Venatrix’s business model and team structure.
• [45:00] Speed and high standards - two critical success factors.
• [48:00] Elaine shares their operational and quality standards.
• [51:20] How to foster a fun work environment where people feel appreciated.
• [53:00] What is next for Venatrix?

Starting Off with the Right Partners

Elaine started her career in recruitment 14 years ago, during the Great Recession of 2008. She shared her learnings and challenges - which a lot of us can relate to. What I liked about our discussion is her mindset of focusing on things that we can control - it worked for her during the recession, and the same principles are working for her today.

She shared her story of how she had the opportunity to speak with James Caan which eventually led to her founding Venatrix. What made her decide to collaborate with James’ recruitment venture? “I was 29 years old and I had the feeling that something in my career was set to change and I needed a new challenge.” As the opportunity presented, she grabbed the chance! Originally she presented a business plan which she describes as ‘ridiculous’, but Recruitment Entrepreneur guided her to come up with a more realistic plan.

After that, Venatrix was born - and is turning 7 this year. Elaine’s decision of choosing a reliable partner played a critical role in her success.

Building a Brand on LinkedIn

Elain and I also discussed marketing strategies and how the team at Venatrix are building a prominent brand on LinkedIn. Elaine explained how it happened organically: “It happened very organically. I think the reason why it worked so well and the reason why it became part of our brand personality… is that it is so authentic. Nobody told anybody to start doing videos. It just came naturally as part of our energy of business and we all subscribed to it as part of our brand personality.”

Elain also revealed that this ‘energy’ rolls down from the top - “It has to be led from the front, from the leaders and the most senior people from the business. You will see that … we post a lot and have that consistency. So that motivates the more junior people in the team.”

We also talked about another approach in marketing and community building in their respective niche. Elain also revealed the reason why they are rated with a high 4.8 rating on Glassdoor.

Providing a Well-Qualified Pool of Talents for Their Clients

Venatrix’s value proposition is truly unique in that they provide extensive training and support for the candidates they place. This significantly reduces the risk associated with hiring entry-level salespeople. How do they do it? They offer a 9-module Virtual Sales Academy to accelerate the impact of the new hires. On top of that, they organize, sponsor, and host SDR meetups events in London which leads to peer-to-peer networking and learning.

Listen to the podcast to hear how Elaine came up with this idea and how this works for them, their clients, and candidates.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Elaine Tyler Bio and Contact Info

Elaine Tyler is the CEO & Founder of Venatrix, a specialist assessment, placement and training business that identifies high calibre Sales Development Representatives and introduces them to fast growth tech companies. As the candidates are typically entry level, Venatrix supports the businesses it works with by also offering a 9 module Virtual Sales Academy to accelerate the impact of the new hires, plus sponsors & hosts a number of SDR meet ups in London to encourage peer-to-peer networking & learning.

• Elain on LinkedIn
• Venatrix website link
• Venatrix on Instagram
• Venatrix on Tiktok

People and Resources Mentioned

• Abid Hamid on LinkedIn
• James Caan on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR 123 How a Recruitment Business Launched, Scaled and Sold for $12,000,000 in 5 Years, with James Caan * TRR #124 How to Recession-Proof Your Recruitment Business While Accelerating Growth, with Abid Hamid

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Does your recruitment business feel like you’re running on a hamster wheel? That everything depends on your efforts and you can’t ever slow down or stop because your delivery to customers (and your revenue) would also come grinding to a halt?

No matter how talented and hard-working you are, trying to do everything yourself is unsustainable. It leads to inconsistent results, frustration and burnout. But what if you could get a lot of tasks off your plate and free up your time to focus on high-value, revenue-generating activities?

The good news is that you can!

In this episode, we discuss WHY you shouldn’t be the one spinning all of the plates even if you are a solo recruiter. We will also cover HOW to get started with delegating and outsourcing parts of your recruitment process. Our goal is to increase your time spent on high-value, revenue-generating activities, and the parts of the job you do best.

This is the fourth of a series of episodes where Leanne and I will share insights that we have gained from working with hundreds of successful recruitment business owners.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:58] Two questions you should ask yourself to assess the value of outsourcing recurring tasks.
• [03:30] Three downsides of doing everything by yourself.
• [06:14] Where to start - do an analytical review of your processes.
• [08:52] Hear the simple actions you can take today to start on this journey.
• [10:26] Teaser for our next episode on leveraging automation.

Should You Hire a Virtual Assistant (VA)? Two Questions to Consider

Here are the two questions you need to answer:

• When was the last time you reviewed your full recruiting possess and identified those recurring tasks?
• When was the last time you analyzed and calculated the cost of your time per hour?

This is a great exercise - calculating your hourly rate will give you the insight to see what tasks are indeed worth delegating. You may simply choose your billings per annum and divide by 1800 which is the average hours of someone who works full time during the course of the year.

Your job is to figure out how you can spend more time and focus on high-value activities and how to delegate or outsource those activities where you will not be earning your dollar per hour.

The Three Downsides of Trying to Do Everything by Yourself

Why you should not be doing everything by yourself? Here are three reasons why.

• Overwhelm. Wearing different hats and pulling from all directions is not sustainable.
• The Quality of Service. You may feel that you are not providing the best quality of service to your clients because of so many other tasks falling on your plate.
• Focus is critical to be at your best. If your focus is too diluted, you are not going to be as productive.

This is not going to happen overnight, but I want you to think about outsourcing some parts of your business. This will take one step at a time and will be an ongoing process.

Simple Actions You Can Take to Start

The main thing is to not overcomplicate things. Look at your end-to-end process and analyze things you can delegate in the aspects of sourcing, business development, and account management piece. Look at what you don’t enjoy doing, the tasks that are recurring, and what tasks you are currently spending time on that realistically someone else could do for you.

Keep in mind that as a business owner, your focus should be on high-level activities. We recommend that you hire a full-time VA to support you.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Imagine if you were a dominant recruiter in your industry with a portfolio of clients who come to you for all their hiring needs.

That doesn’t happen overnight and requires persistence. As you’ll hear in my interview with Brooke Ziolo, it’s certainly achievable with the right mindset and methodology.

Brooke is the President of Egret Consulting, and has been an Executive Recruiter for 14 years. She and her team have become the Go-To recruiters for the lighting industry covering positions in sales, marketing, engineering, and operations from mid-level to C-Suite.

In this episode, she shares how they became the market leading recruiters within the lighting industry. She describes in detail how they reach out to clients and candidates with a blend of manual and automated processes plus an attitude of polite and professional persistence.

Brooke’s history of how and when she started her recruiting career is a resounding story of resilience, leading to her becoming a Partner of Egret in 2013, the Managing Director in 2016, and purchasing the firm in 2019. She was inducted into the Pinnacle Society, the premier consortium of industry-leading recruiters in North America, in 2016.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:56] Brooke’s challenging first year in recruiting.
• [06:05] Brooke’s mindset and method for building her desk during a recession.
• [11:11] What has changed in Egret’s approach to marketing over the past 14 years?
• [20:20] Would you consider reaching out via cold text? Discussion on combining videos and text when reaching out.
• [25:04] Brooke’s recipe for success - from being a recruiter, a partner, and the decision of becoming a recruitment firm owner.
• [39:38] Brooke’s vision on taking the Egret company forward.
• [41:42] Retaining employee engagement while shifting to a fully remote setup.

Starting Her Recruitment Career During the 2008 Recession

Brooke started her recruitment career in 2008, during the Great Recession. As you can imagine, it was extremely challenging. She only made 2 placements that whole year! But Brooke’s mindset and strategy during that turbulent time lead to her being successful when people started hiring again.

Reminiscing her early days, Brook explained, “The only thing I control is how many calls I make. So if I keep making more calls than everybody in the office… that is all I can do right now. I kept just pounding the phones until somebody told me no or I am sick of you.”

For Brooke, it is all about her polite persistence. She understood the balance of not harassing anyone but staying within professional boundaries to put her name out there even if she was not making many placements. The result? People remembered her! Making all those phone calls enabled her to build her network of industry connections so people thought of her when they started hiring again.

Blended Approach to Marketing and Business Development

Cold calling and polite persistence laid the foundation for Brooke to become a top-producing recruiter and billing manager. But how has her approach to business development and marketing evolved over the last 14 years?

Here are some of the strategies she shared in this episode:

• MPC Marketing
• Monthly Newsletter
• LinkedIn outreach
• Advertising in the trade publication for her industry
• Text messaging

We also shared tips and ways on cold text messaging. Many recruiters are afraid of sending unsolicited text messages and are concerned about receiving a negative reaction from the recipient. On the other hand, texting is a very effective way to communicate and typically gets a much faster response compared to other platforms such as email. Brooke shared how she does it and how much response she gets in doing so.

Brooke’s Success Mindset

In 2019, Brooke purchased the firm from her father who was the founder of Egrit Consulting. Acquiring the business wasn’t something she had initially set out to accomplish. But after falling in love with recruitment and becoming a top recruiter in the firm, she started being able to imagine the possibility of taking over the business.

I asked Brooke’s recipe for success. In addition to her persistence and also being niche-focused, she shared three keys: :

• Positive self-talk and affirmation
• Taking her time and putting one foot in front of the other
• Learning from past experience

I have always aimed to understand recruitment owners’ formulas for success. And Brooke certainly delivered in this episode.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Brooke Ziolo Bio and Contact Info

Brooke Ziolo has been an Executive Recruiter with Egret Consulting for 14 years. Brooke works exclusively in the lighting industry with manufacturers, rep agencies, ESCOs, and design firms. She works in positions in sales, marketing, engineering, and operations from mid-level to C-Suite. She was inducted into the Pinnacle Society, the premier consortium of industry-leading recruiters in North America, in 2016. Brooke became a Partner of Egret in 2013, the Managing Director in 2016, and purchased the firm in 2019.

• Brooke on LinkedIn
• Egret Consulting website link
• Pinnacle Society website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Rob Bowerman on Linkedin
• Michael Pietrack on LinkedIn
• Ring Central
• Refract

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#32 How to Build a 7-Figure Search Firm with a Small Virtual Team, with Rob Bowerman * TRR#106 How to Bill £12,800,000 in 14 Years, with Michael Pietrack

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I’m a firm believer that success leaves clues.

If someone was able to scale their staffing business not just once or twice but multiple times, that can’t be based on luck. To produce those results over and over, they must have a winning formula. That being the case, you’d want to know their formula, wouldn’t you?

Well the good news is that’s exactly what you’ll learn from my podcast interview with Joel Slenning.

This is Joel’s second appearance on the show. Last time, he shared the story of how he scaled his previous recruitment firm, ICON Medical, to $16M before selling it in 2019. I found that story fascinating - especially the part where he started his own business in the middle of a global recession and how he strategically scaled it during the most difficult first year.

This time, Joel is back to reveal the strategies he’s using to grow his new staffing firm, INNOVA People from a start-up to almost $2M in revenue in less than 3 years! Joel talks about his business model, leveraging offshore sourcers, and inbound marketing, and much more.

Joel is the President of Innova People, a healthcare and IT staffing agency based in Oregon. Joel and I run a coaching program together called APEX which is a mastermind group for owners of 7-figure recruiting firms who want to scale to 8-figures and build a business that runs without them that they could potentially sell one day.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:00] Joel talks about his current company, INNOVA People, and what he is doing differently this time.
• [05:15] Building a sustainable model where business development is side by side with the delivery team.
• [14:48] The blend of contract and permanent direct hire.
• [22:26] Leveraging offshore resources and automation.
• [32:31] The 9 Pillars of a Scalable Recruitment Business
• [34:33] Joel’s approach to marketing and generating inbound leads.
• [48:32] The ToMA (Top of Mind Awareness) Model and how to create it in today’s environment.
• [52:58] Joel’s mindset on the economic slowdown and how we should prepare.

Structuring a Very Sustainable Business Model

After successfully scaling and selling ICON Medical Network, Joel is now the owner of a successful IT Staffing Agency, INNOVA People. What he has been doing differently with this new agency is the approach to a sustainable business model, where business development works side by side with the delivery team. He segregated business development from the delivery team by creating a talent acquisition leader for delivery and sales development reps on the business development side.

How does this work for Joel’s team? With this strategy alongside a number of automated processes, the team was able to scale rapidly. Contrary to a 360 model, this approach is really agile and avoids having recruiters having to switch-task which reduces productivity. Each person is dedicated 100% to what they are doing. The business development team is able to fully support the delivery team, which results in consistent hiring and scalability. In its third year, they are pushing close to $2M in revenue.

Joel further shared key factors in his current business model such as leveraging offshore resources and automation. If you are hesitating in employing an offshore team member, Joel’s insights on the matter can be very helpful. What to look for in an offshore colleague? Does location really matter? In his own experience, making the right offshore hire is critical to Joel’s success in scaling his business.

Top of Mind Awareness and Inbound Marketing

The last time we had Joel in the podcast, he alluded to the fact that the majority of his leads on both clients and candidates were generated using inbound marketing. We ran out of time to get into the details of how he does it, and so we are truly fortunate to hear the details from him this time around. Joel shares their strategy for applying the ToMA or Top of Mind Awareness approach in their marketing. Here are some of the practices that Joel discussed in this episode:

• When and who to hire as marketing staff.
• Platforms that they are utilizing the most in their marketing.
• Calendar and timeline on running social media content and posts.

You will enjoy the very practical and no-nonsense approach that Joel shared in this part of our conversation.

Outworking the Global Economic Slowdown

Joel also shared his insight on having the right mindset to deal with economic downturns or recessions. This is a relevant topic to a lot of recruitment business owners who are concerned about a global slowdown in hiring activity. The media has amplified this message to the point that there’s a lot of fear, uncertainty and doubt in the market.

But if there is one thing that I learned from the 2008 global recession and the COVID19 pandemic, is that taking a proactive approach and having the right mindset are the game changers. Joel shared his thoughts on how to outwork whatever potential economic downturns that may come.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Joel Slenning Bio and Contact Info

Joel is a talent acquisition expert, talent strategist, tech investor, and tech startup guru based in Portland, Oregon. With a recruitment career spanning for more than 20 years, Joel has always been a consistent top performer and an award-winning billing manager. He is the president of INNOVA People, a Human Resources Solutions agency that utilizes AI platforms to solve complex HR problems mainly focused on healthcare and information technology.

• Joel on LinkedIn
• Email address: joel@innovapeople.com
• Innova People website link
• Innova People on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• Webinar: How to Build an 8 Figure Recruitment Business That Runs Without You

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#53 How to Scale Your Staffing & Recruiting Firm to $16,000,000, With Joel Slenning

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From professional athlete to 7-figure recruitment business owner, Paul Warner’s journey is quite unique. In this interview, you’ll learn how Paul has gone from a part-time solo recruiter billing $90K per year to building a team that bills over $1M per annum in just three years.

Paul shared his incredible story and breaks down the key factors that he believes contribute to increasing billings by 10x in 3 years including:

• His business model and business development strategies
• How to create a psychologically safe workplace environment to empower your staff
• His passion for hiring the next generation of recruiters - the Gen Z’s.

Paul founded Tamarack Recruiting in 2018 as a lifestyle business that could support his other career as a professional cyclist. He leveraged AI and other technology to allow him to connect companies and candidates quickly in the few hours he had to work between races and traveling. In 2020, the pandemic brought the cycling circuit to a halt, and Paul shifted his focus to scaling his staffing agency.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:49] How Paul started recruiting while being involved in competitive sports.
• [09:12] What moved Paul to start his own business?
• [13:35] Transitioning from a lifestyle business to a high-growth recruitment business.
• [27:45] Tamarack recruiting’s secret sauce to repeat businesses - two key pointers.
• [32:31] From 90k to 1m+ annual billing in 3 years - Paul’s insight on what contributed to this success.
• [34:11] Paul shares their business model and development strategies.
• [39:16] Why Paul is passionate about hiring Gen-Z recruiters and his standards for hiring people.
• [53:33] What it means to empower your people to be successful.
• [1:01:10] After growing to seven people, what is next for Tamarack?

Tamarack’s Key Game Changers

Tamarack recruiting’s growth is so rapid, I really wanted to hear from Paul about the ‘secret sauce’ to their success. From billing 90k to 1m+ in just three years within the pandemic is surely an accomplishment and a feat that thousands of recruiting companies could have not easily achieved. What I observed is his successful sales engine and volumes of repeat businesses.

For this to happen, they had to keep on consistently delivering. What are the game changes that enable them to do so? Paul mentioned two things:

• Creating an emotionally and mentally safe environment to work in means their staff treats clients enormously well.
• When they take a job order, they go into a deep-level discussion with the hiring manager to fully understand their hiring needs.

Paul later on shared how they empower their employees, his passion for hiring Gen-Zs, and business development strategies contribute to their rapid growth.

What Tamarack’s Business Model and Business Development Look Like

Paul shared that they have a dedicated business development resource. The main focus of the BD resource is to set appointments. They are running email campaigns, LinkedIn campaigns, and cold calling campaigns simultaneously.

Once an agreement is signed, they then execute it with a sourcer, the account recruiting manager, and a designated recruiter to work on the process. For Paul, having these three minds work together is a game-changer that enhances the process and brings a better recruitment experience for the hiring manager.

The Passion for Managing Gen-Z Recruiters and Empowering People

“I have decided to go with the growth model of bringing kids fresh out of college to teach them our process and procedures.” Paul’s passion of hiring fresh graduates stemmed from his own experience coming out of college and he felt really vulnerable entering the workforce. He felt that his true potential was not realized especially when he was not treated well, e.g. being yelled at.

This inspired him to create a psychologically safe environment in his organization, even for young people. He is also focused on empowering his employees. The results? He feels that his team is motivated to work ten times harder. He wants to give them an experience that launches them into their professional career, especially for recruitment.

You will pick up golden nuggets in this part of our conversation - actual examples of young people joining their organization full time and doing really well. Paul has clarity on what motivates people - it is not just money but the feeling that you truly care.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Paul Warner Bio and Contact Info

Paul’s role within Tamarack Recruiting is to oversee client development, as well as managing candidate pipelines in the Mountain States Regions.

Tamarack Recruiting's slogan "We stand out" comes from the Tamarack Tree. Tamarack Recruiting provides staffing and recruiting in both the Technical and Financial verticals. They differentiate themselves by having our recruiters putting full focus on no more than three client needs at a time.

Just like the tamarack tree that changes colors in the fall, "We Stand Out" is how they approach the saturated staffing and recruiting market. Now a team of seven, Tamarack Recruiting today uses the cutting-edge processes Paul developed to make impactful placements with a fast turn-around. We have become the go-to recruiting partner for many of our clients because of our track record of success in filling urgent openings with in-demand professionals.

• Paul on LinkedIn
• Tamarack Recruiting website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Jordan Rayboy on LinkedIn
• Danny Cahill on LinkedIn
• Greg Savage on LinkedIn
• The Five Love Languages, by Gary Chapman
• Drive, by Daniel Pink

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#64 The Recruiter Roadmap to Recovery: How to Thrive in a Post-Pandemic World, with Greg Savage * TRR#133 How this Top Producing Recruiter is Putting Health, Fitness and Family First, with Jordan Rayboy

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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One of the core competencies of successful recruiters is influence.

When Cathy Stewart became a recruiter 15 years ago, recruiting seemed like a perfect fit based on her ability to build trust and influence others. In this episode, Cathy reveals her exact approach to influencing people which has enabled her to become a top biller.

Recruiting is actually Cathy’s third career. Prior to becoming a recruiter, she started out as a music teacher before going on to achieve great success in direct home selling, building a multi-million dollar organization.

Cathy Stewart is the Vice President of the Senior Living Division with Jeff Harris and Associates. Since she began her recruiting career in 2008, Cathy has been a consistent top biller and she became a Pinnacle Society Member in 2018.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [2:43] How Cathy went from music teacher to top-producing recruiter.
• [6:31] Exploring the Senior Living niche.
• [08:37] Cathy’s greatest accomplishment as a recruiter
• [11:38] The ‘doctor’ mindset in recruiting.
• [14:10] How to maintain a positive mindset.
• [24:06] How to master the art of becoming an influencer and trust builder.
• [38:17] Cathy’s comparison of contingent vs retained.
• [47:46] Client development and not putting all your eggs in one basket.
• [57:10] Work-life balance and creating your dream life.

The Keys to Success in Recruitment

Cathy is an achiever. Since she began her recruiting career in 2008 she has been the lead recruiter and top biller in the office her entire recruiting career and she became a Pinnacle Society Member in 2018. But what would she consider her proudest accomplishment as a recruiter?

“I don’t see myself as a super special awesome person. I just think that I am really good at the basics,” is how Cathy describes it. Here are the key things that she believes have contributed to her success:

• Mindset
• Influencing Skills
• Building Trust
• Work-life Balance and Creating Your Own Dream Life

Creating and Maintaining a Positive Mindset

A positive mindset is not something you will get from someone else. You must create and maintain it within yourself. Cathy shares this from a recruiter’s perspective: it is about being passionate about your selected niche. It is about having a solid foundation of ‘Why’. Her love for seniors really motivates her to consistently do her best in her chosen niche which is senior living. She also added, “Being able to stay positive is really about gratitude. You can’t feel anxiety and negativity if you feel gratitude.”

Honing Your Influencing Skills and Building Trust

Cathy believes that influence is her “superpower.” How does she do it? As a DISC profiler, Cathy applies her knowledge and understanding of personalities when communicating with her stakeholders. An important key is having conscious self-awareness about both your own personality profile and the other party’s. This plays a huge role when influencing and building trust.

Her sales background trained her to hone this approach when dealing with hiring managers, and interviewing candidates. She explains in detail how she incorporates these influencing skills in the recruitment process.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Cathy Stewart Bio and Contact Info

Cathy Stewart is a national leader in the senior living recruiting industry. From clinical to sales and marketing to operations leadership roles at both site and corporate levels, Cathy has spent nearly 15 years producing top talent for senior living organizations nationally. A native of Greensboro, NC, she began her recruiting career in 2008 with Jeff Harris and Associates and has been the lead recruiter and top biller in the office her entire recruiting career. At the heart of what she does lies her commitment to serving seniors and finding candidates who share that same mission. Despite starting a new career just as the economy was collapsing in 2008, because of their specialized niche in healthcare, JHA not only weathered the recession, but grew as more than 50% of firms across the nation closed their doors. Cathy began to build a team of researchers and recruiters in 2014, allowing her to deliver top talent with unmatched speed and accuracy to her clients in both retained and contingent search. Her commitment to her clients is evident in her determination to identify quality candidates quickly and efficiently. Her team consistently averages between $800K and $1M in annual billings. In November of 2018, Cathy was formally asked to join The Pinnacle Society, the premium consortium of industry-leading recruiters in North America.

• Cathy on LinkedIn
• Jeff Harris and Associates website link
• Jeff Harris and Associates on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• Pinnacle Society website link
• Jordan Rayboy on LinkedIn
• Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance by Angela Duckworth

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#133 How this Top Producing Recruiter is Putting Health, Fitness and Family First, with Jordan Rayboy

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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Where do you find most of your candidates?

If LinkedIn is your primary platform for sourcing and engaging with candidates, this episode is for you. We are not telling you to stop using LinkedIn. But we believe that it’s a mistake to be over-reliant on LinkedIn as your main source of candidates.

In this episode, you will hear the downsides of being dependent upon LinkedIn. You’ll also learn what specific steps you can take now to enhance your candidate engagement and increase response rates to your outreach.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [00:57] The six pillars of a successful seven-figure recruitment business.
• [2:22] Clients versus candidates - which do you need more of?
• [3:31] Why it is essential to track the source of the candidates you place.
• [5:14] The downsides of being over-reliant on LinkedIn as your primary source of candidates.
• [6:47] Why using InMails may not be the most effective method of outreach.
• [8:05] Going further - how to leverage multi-channel communication strategies.
• [10:04] Isn’t a 12-step candidate recruitment campaign going overboard?
• [12:36] Benefits of developing a multi-step, multi-channel approach.
• [13:38] Two more reasons why it’s risky to rely too much on LinkedIn.
• [15:14] Strategies to increase candidate response.
• [17:02] Simple steps you can take to put this into action.

The Downsides of Being Over-Reliant on LinkedIn

LinkedIn is actually the number one source of candidates for the majority of recruiters out there. But there are downsides to being over-reliant on LinkedIn as your primary source of candidates. Some of them are:

1. Your competitors and clients are searching on LinkedIn too.
2. Candidates are inundated with messages on LinkedIn.
3. Not every candidate is active on LinkedIn.

Also, you have to remember that you do not own the data on LinkedIn. The data belongs to LinkedIn and they could at any time just cut you off. They can restrict your account and remove the facility. All the time you have invested in curating that network can be taken away. So we always recommend that you extract data from LinkedIn and build your own database. Then your ATS will become your number one source of candidates in the future.

Going Further and Leveraging Multi-Channel Strategies

We are not saying to stop using LinkedIn. We just want you to go much further when it comes to your candidate outreach and activities. Your goal should be to have a sophisticated, multi-touch, multi-channel recruiting campaign in place - one that leverages automation technology. In this episode, we will be giving examples of strategies you can use to increase candidate response and engagement.

The Benefits of Implementing a Multi-Touch, Multi-Channel Recruitment Campaign

Do not leave money on the table. You owe it to yourself and your candidates to make them aware of the opportunity on offer. As a recruiter, increasing your response rates translates to more placements and profits. Plus it enables you to have a positive impact on more lives.

Here are some of the benefits of utilizing multi-channel strategies:

1. Increase in response to your candidate outreach.
2. Increase the number of quality candidates that you can present.
3. It will shorten the time to fill positions.
4. Save time in leveraging tools and automation.
5. Have a sense of control over your candidate pipeline.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

People and Resources Mentioned

• Download the Job Order Scorecard here

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#70 How to Boost Candidate Engagement and Win the Next War for Talent, with Alan Cutter

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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What’s the secret to scaling a staffing company internationally? According to my special guest Andy Mackin, relationships are a key driver of business growth.

In this episode, you will hear how Andy transitioned from serving with the Irish Navy for 21 years to becoming an EY Entrepreneur of the Year finalist. He shares his story of rapidly expanding his staffing company from six employees to 200 in less than 8 years.

At Mackin Talent, their number one value is “Relationships Matter.” Listen to Andy explain exactly how they invest time and resources to build stronger client relationships. He reveals how they’ve embedded this core value into their systems and procedures from the way they sell to the way they deliver their service.

Andy is the CEO of Mackin Group, which encompasses Mackin EHS & Mackin Talent. They’re an award-winning business services company headquartered in Ireland and operating globally with 200 team members in 12 countries.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [3:47] Discussion on Andy’s process for posting original content on LinkedIn.
• [7:08] Andy’s reading challenge and book recommendations.
• [11:09] Why Andy started a health and safety consulting firm after leaving the navy and how that led to building a staffing agency.
• [23:04] Great life lessons that Andy shares from working as a server/waiter.
• [27:25] Breaking down the stages - growing from 6 people to 200.
• [33:38] The business value of building relationships and treating everyone the way you want to be treated.
• [42:10] How to engage and build relationships with clients with a hybrid setup.
• [48:55] Andy’s strategies for building business roles and framework.
• [50:30] Biggest challenges when scaling a business rapidly.
• [53:56] Andy shares his biggest learning experience from 2014 up to now.

Life Lessons From Working as a Waiter

Andy’s story is interesting and colorful indeed - before setting up his own consultancy business, he served in the Irish Navy for 21 years. After retiring from the Navy, he set up his own health and safety business which led to him setting up a talent and staffing agency.

What struck me is when Andy shared his stint as a server or waiter before joining the navy. He described it as his best 10 and a half months experience in life. For him, the life lessons he learned and the experience of dealing with people are invaluable. It became a foundational step in his journey that he attributes to his success in the recruitment space. Andy shares: “It is all about people. People that you deal with, life is all about people. I think recruitment is a pretty solid industry where it is all about people. How you get on with people, how you react to people, how you react to candidates, how you react to clients… it has served me well.”

How Relationship Building Was the Key to Scaling the Business

One of the keys to the growth of Mackin Talent is they partner with multi-national corporations and support them in rolling out sizeable EHS (Environment, Health and Safety) projects. As a small business, how do they win these major accounts? According to Andy, it’s simple - relationships. Corporations are made up of people. He can form a relationship with one person in a company, land small opportunities, and expand from there. Eventually this leads to larger and larger opportunities. Of course, it is expected that they can deliver, which they do.

To further strengthen their business relationship, they ensure that an onsite engagement specialist is present with their clients free of charge. This investment ensures that the project runs smoothly, resulting in less worries for their clients, and more repeat business for Mackin Talent. This practice enables them to embed themselves within their clients, and deliver excellent service. Their guiding principle is to treat other people how you want to be treated.

The Importance of Meeting Clients Face-to-Face

How much relationship building are you doing remotely versus in person? This is the same question I asked Andy during this interview. Since the pandemic, a lot of business owners are conducting the majority of their meetings virtually. But how critical is face-to-face relationship building when you are looking to scale your business?

For Andy, they still allocate at least 65% in-person relationship building but are on the track of further increasing it to 75%. He spends thousands of dollars quarterly just to meet with employees and clients in person - the creativity and collaboration are just different when done in person. It is nice to speak with people regularly via Zoom, but meeting them in person levels up the relationship.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Andy Mackin Bio and Contact Info

Andy originally hails from Dundalk,Co Louth, in Ireland. The eldest of eight, Parents Roy and Roseleen.

Andy joined the Irish Naval Service at 18 in 1985 and has been in Cork since. He served for 21 years as a member of the Irish Naval Service and, during this time, qualified as an electrician. It was here that he gained his initial experience with risk management and developed his appreciation of Environmental Health and Safety. Andy retired from service in 2006 as Petty Officer.

Andy holds a Diploma in Health and Safety from University College Cork a Certificate in Training and Education from NUI Galway, and has over twenty years experience in the field of Environmental Health and Safety.

As CEO of Mackin Group he has responsibility for the day to day operations of both organisations, Mackin EHS & Mackin Talent and also works with varied clients across all sectors in Ireland, UK, Europe, Asia and the US.

A positive mindset and personal development are key factors in my life to help declutter the constant noise from around the world.

• Andy on LinkedIn
• Mackin Talent website link
• Mackin Talent on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• Morgan Cummins on LinkedIn
• The Compound Effect, by Darren Hardy

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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To build a thriving executive search practice, you need to be good at winning new business. However, my special guest Somer Hackley realized early in her recruiting career that traditional approaches to business development didn’t work for her.

Instead, Somer developed her own way of landing retained searches. Her approach has proven to be highly effective, enabling her to become a top producer at two of the world’s biggest retained executive search firms.

Her strategy involves, as Somer puts it, “doing BD by not doing BD.” I was intrigued by the apparent contradiction. Somer explains that while she doesn’t perform pure business development activities, “everything I do is BD.” In this interview, Somer reveals her top three ways of winning work.

Somer has been in recruiting for 20 years, the last 14 in executive search. In 2020 she launched her own firm called Distinguished Search. Having worked for some of the biggest executive search firms in the world, she wanted to work with fewer clients and offer more personalized service. Somer is the author of the new book, Search in Plain Sight - Demystifying Executive Search which was published in June.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:22] Becoming a published author and a mother in the same month!
• [4:03] How Somer got started in recruiting 20 years ago - we discuss the constant pressure to achieve targets.
• [8:26] The challenge of launching her own firm in 2020 during a pandemic
• [14:00] Business development by not doing business development.
• [19:19] Somer’s approach to recruiting / how she pitches roles.
• [24:34] Somer’s video series: Two Distinguished Minutes.
• [33:30] How to establish trust with people quickly.
• [41:30] How Somer approaches the scenario of candidates getting multiple offers.
• [45:45] How to prep your clients prior to the interview.
• [51:10] Discussion on Somer’s new book, Search in Plain Sight: Demystifying Executive Search

BD by Not Doing BD

“I do BD, you can either say a hundred percent all the time or zero percent all the time, depending on how you are looking at it.” For Somer, business development traditionally was transactional - connecting to the higher-ups of potential clients and setting appointments. This formal approach did not work for Somer as she describes her communication style to be more casual.

When Somer went on her own, her mindset was “I work with people” – she doesn’t think of them in terms of clients vs candidates. She never contacts executives with the sole intent of getting business. “I just reach out to people and I think every time I am talking to a person, this could be a client in 3 months, it could be a client in 5 years. So, how do I position this conversation so that when that role opens, they think of me for that?”

Somer shared her approach to segmenting her clients into three buckets:

• “Candidates that I place, and now they're hiring.”
• “Candidates that I didn’t place, and now they're hiring.”
• “HR execs, internal recruiters that have moved companies and have brought me along in the relationship.”

For Somer, business development is really simple. She focuses on the human connection and ensuring her processes work for her candidates. She finds that when her candidates have a hiring need, she’s the first recruiter they turn to – even if she didn’t place them.

Video Content Idea: Two Distinguished Minutes

Creating video content and posting consistently to different platforms such as LinkedIn is the easiest type of content marketing you can do. It does not cost anything - all it takes is for you to start and eventually more ideas will come for your content. This is exactly what Somer has been doing consistently with her videos - Two Distinguished Minutes.

The idea came up when she watched Simon Sinek’s TED Talk about starting with WHY. She approached leaders in her network with a compelling idea. Will you record a video interview with me and answer the question, “Why do you do what you do?” It’s a topic that senior leaders were enthusiastic about, and because her videos are only two-minutes long, even the busiest executives could make time for it.

I’ve studied and practiced content marketing for 20 years - before it was even called content marketing. So I enjoyed discussing how Somer comes up with her content ideas. I hope it will inspire you to start creating your own original content and positioning yourself as an authority in your market niche.

Search in Plain Sight: Demystifying Executive Search

Somer is the author of the new book, Search in Plain Sight - Demystifying Executive Search which was published in June. In this book, Somer shares a candid view of the world of executive search. I have read this book and it is fantastic!

I am also honored to be interviewed by Somer and be in the few pages of the book (Chapters 6 and 14). I really recommend reading this book - it was really extensively researched with so many case studies and indeed a must-read for executive recruiters.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.cm/vc

Somer Hackley Bio and Contact Info

Somer Hackley received her degree in economics from Tufts University in 2002. She has been in recruiting for twenty years, including the last thirteen years in executive search. She spent six years at the seventh-largest global retained search firm, and later ran the North America Digital, Technology, and Commerce Practice at a leading boutique. In 2020 she started her own brand, Distinguished Search, inspired to launch a firm aligned with her core values: working with fewer clients and offering more personalized services. She has placed executives in companies from Fortune 100 to startups, with a focus on technology and digital positions. The need for transparency in executive search led to her debut book, Search in Plain Sight.

• Somer on LinkedIn
• Distinguished Search website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Search in Plain Sight: Demystifying Executive Search on Amazon
• Two Distinguished Minutes on YouTube

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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If you’re like many recruiters we speak to, you’re extremely busy right now with more job orders than you can handle. However, are you working with the right clients?

Many recruiters delude themselves by thinking they’re “too busy” to do business development when in reality they’re working on low-probability searches. So they end up doing a lot of work you don’t get paid for.

Another common scenario is recruiters who rely on repeat business from the same legacy clients. Sure you’ve got a good relationship, but have you gotten into a comfort zone with them?

When was the last time you reviewed your terms of business with your existing clients? Or asked them for a retainer? Perhaps you’re reluctant to rock the boat because you get a lot of business from them.

If you can identify with either of these scenarios, pay close attention. In this episode, Leanne and I will share tips on how to increase your billings by working with your ideal clients - the ones who are willing to work with you exclusively at higher fees, and who treat you as a trusted advisor and true partners.

This is the second of a series of episodes where Leanne and I will share insights that we have gained from working with hundreds of successful recruitment business owners.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [3:00] Increase your billings by auditing your existing clients.
• [4:12] Indicators that you are working with the right clients.
• [5:27] The benefits of grading your jobs using a Job Order Scorecard.
• [8:11] Common limiting beliefs that stop recruiters from reviewing their terms of business with existing clients.
• [10:52] Actual examples and success stories of recruiters who raised their standards in terms of how they work with new and existing clients.
• [12:07] Won’t you lose clients if you increase your rates?
• [13:07] Three simple actions you can take to re-evaluate your client relationship.

Audit Your Existing Client with the Job Order Scorecard

When was the last time you audited your clients and measured the quality of jobs you are working on to make sure you are investing your time wisely? One of the first exercises we do with our new clients is to get them to do an audit on their existing clients and actually grade their jobs. Failing to do so can mean that you end up working with the wrong clients in ways that are not effective or efficient.

A useful exercise is to look at your job-to-placement ratio. In this call, you will hear a scientific approach to using a diagnostic tool we call the Job Order Scorecard. This tool was designed to audit your existing live job - looking at measurable factors and criteria to work from when starting new partnerships or when analyzing your current clients.

Some of the factors being looked at are:

• How fillable is the job?
• How accessible is the hiring manager?
• Is the role actually within your niche?
• How good is the rate?
• How solid are the agreement and the terms?

If you want to steal our Job Order Scorecard you can download it here: http://www.recruitmentcoach.com/scorecard

Challenge Your Self-Limiting Beliefs

The idea of grading your jobs can lead to better outcomes for both you and your client. However, the fear of change and some limiting beliefs may stop us from taking the leap of faith to switching from contingent to the retained model, for example. Another thing we hear a lot is “In my market, it is very price sensitive, there is no way our clients will pay a higher fee.” If you hear yourself saying this, it may be a sign that there are underlying limiting beliefs that we may need to challenge.

We want you to go out of your comfort zone and look at it from a different perspective. The success stories of our coaching group members should nudge you to overcome the fear of asking for higher fees and more commitment.

Three Simple Actions You Can Take Now

If there are key takeaways from this episode, it is taking action now and doing the simple steps below:

1. Go to http://www.recruitmentcoach.com/scorecard and download the scorecard.
2. Do the exercise and audit - give a score to each of the roles you are working on so you can measure them up against one another.
3. Re-prioritize your time and energy based on that score.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

People and Resources Mentioned

• Download the Job Order Scorecard here

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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My next guest, Helen Plumridge, doubled her revenue last year and is on course to double again this year. But she didn’t achieve success overnight - it’s been more of a marathon than a sprint.

Over a 20 year career, Helen’s experienced her share of setbacks and disappointments including the failure of her first recruitment business startup. Other areas of huge learning include choosing the right business model, hiring the right people and growing into leadership. Plus, the usual challenges of balancing business, fitness goals and family life.

In this episode, you will hear Helen’s story of resilience and how she grew her recruitment business with the right combination of motivation, strategy, team, and partners. She discusses her partnership with Recruitment Entrepreneur and shares the key factors that contributed to doubling her revenue in the last year.

Helen is the founder of King Recruit and King Executive, a partnership-led recruitment and search industry working with high-growth, small and medium sized companies in the South-West of England.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:10] Why Helen’s first recruitment business didn’t succeed and what she learned from that experience.
• [5:08] Looking back at her career, what would Helen have done differently?
• [7:18] Why Helen launched King Recruit after taking a break to have kids.
• [12:50] How Helen won a large account which helped grow their business drastically.
• [16:40] How to articulate your candidate’s ROI to potential clients.
• [30:00] Helen’s insights on scaling her team.
• [34:37] King Recruit’s business model, why and how they partnered with Recruitment Entrepreneur.
• [41:37] How King Recruit doubled their turnover last year.
• [47:07] Managing and motivating your team / the “build a business within the business” approach.
• [51:05] Helen reveals some hiring learning from the past and what their hiring process looks like today.
• [59:04] The pros and cons of hiring experienced recruiters.
• [1:02:00] Helen shares her adventure when she ran the Great Wall of China marathon.

Articulating the ROI of Hiring Your Candidate

One of Helen’s incredible success stories is how they won a large account when they were just starting as a small business. On her 40th birthday, they signed up a fast-growing client with whom they ultimately placed over 200 people. You will hear from Helen how they won that account - including how they got their foot in the door. Helen revealed best practices for marketing your hot candidates and how to articulate the potential return-on-investment when presenting them to clients. The following takeaways were elaborated in our discussion:

• Wordsmithing.
• Use compelling subject lines when introducing your candidate.
• Identifying and communicating the quantifiable achievements of your candidate.
• Putting forth the value and result they can provide for the company.
• Bob Marshall’s FAB presentation (Featur, Accomplishment, Benefit)

How They Doubled Revenue Last Year

Another key highlight of this interview is how they doubled their turnover last year and are on the way to again double their turnover this year, after partnering with Recruitment Entrepreneur. What were the key factors that led to this momentum? “Setting that bar higher,” is how it was described by Helen.

It involves understanding the P&L (Profit and Loss) in more detail, looking at performance per head, and being more strategic by using real-time data. Setting the bar higher and believing that it is achievable is what moves Helen’s team. By joining the Recruitment Entrepreneur platform, Helen also found that it is far more achievable to reach the next level.

A Culture of Building a Business Within a Business

Helen also fosters a culture of hiring highly motivated people and giving them the freedom to run their desk in their way. This culture of ‘building a business within a business does not in any way compromise the King Recruiting’s way of doing things. As Helen explained, “It is not without systems and processes and vision.”

Helen is not a fan of micro-managing. They empower their recruiters in business development, marketing, and client approach so long as it is aligned with King Recruiting’s way of working. This is also one of the reasons why they are more inclined to hire seasoned and mature recruiters - on which we discussed the pros and cons in this call.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Helen Plumridge and Contact Info

Helen Plumridge, Founder, and Owner of King Recruit and King Executive. We're a partnership-led recruitment and search agency working with high-growth SMEs in the South West. I've enjoyed a 20-year career in recruitment, I started my business 5 years ago and last year, partnered with Recruitment Entrepreneur - to grow, scale and exit my business - in the next 5 years.

• Helen on LinkedIn
• King Recruit website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Lisa Dixon on Linkedin
• James Caan on LinkedIn
• Abid Hamid on LinkedIn
• Doug Bugie on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#124 How to Recession-Proof Your Recruitment Business While Accelerating Growth, with Abid Hamid * TRR#68 How to Develop a Managed Service Programme (MSP) and Recruitment Process Outsourcing (RPO) Service, with Lisa Dixon * TRR#69 Recruitment Legends: Leadership and Life Lessons From 40 Years in the Global Recruiting Industry, with Doug Bugie * TRR#81 James Caan on the 10 Characteristics of Highly Successful Recruitment Entrepreneurs

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“I don’t need more clients, I need more candidates.”

“I don’t have time for business developments because I have several roles already and I don’t have the bandwidth or capacity for any more clients.”

Does this sound familiar? Are you relying too much on repeat business and referrals to the point that you may neglect your marketing and business development?

In this episode, my co-host and colleague Leanne and I will tackle the trap of too much reliance on repeat business and referrals and forgetting we must never stop developing new business. We will share insights and strategies on how to avoid this trap and actual examples of our Inner Circle coaching group members who were able to adapt these strategies successfully.

This is a first of a series of episodes where Leanne and I will share insights that we have gained from working with hundreds of successful recruitment business owners. We are going to start with a series about the biggest mistakes we see that recruitment business owners are making.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [2:04] Red flags and alarm bells tell that you are relying too much on repeat business and referrals.
• [4:20] Why proactive is better than reactive. Lessons I learned from the 2008 Great Recession.
• [6:08] You can never have too many clients. Strategies to apply if you feel that you are too busy to get more clients.
• [8:26] How our member, Alexis, was able to successfully establish a business development machine.
• [10:08] Strategies on utilizing business development time via different channels.
• [12:34] Simple actions to kickstart your business development.
• [15:00] Final thoughts for this episode and what to look forward to on our next episode.

Never Neglect Your Business Development

This was an experience I had when I started my business in 2001. I was hustling, doing client visits, and working on my business development. That is when I got too busy and comfortable relying on a handful of clients. The Great Recession of 2008 came, and I lost 3 out of 4 key clients I had. I vowed that this is something I was never going to let happen again. If you realize you are also in this trap of complacence, keep in mind that being proactive is better than being reactive. Never forego your business development - if your recruitment business is a bicycle, the two wheels that should be continuously running at the same speed to gain traction are your candidate and client development.

You Can Never Have Too Many Clients

Do you feel that you already have too many clients and that you should only be focusing on getting candidates more than getting new clients? If that is the case, you have to reassess. One takeaway you should get from this episode is that you can never have too many clients. Employ practical strategies such as client re-assessment, employing offshore VAs, and other techniques to continue the business development side without compromising the quality of business provided to your existing clients.

Simple Actions to Kickstart Your Business Development

If you feel that your business development has taken a backseat, what are some things you can do to kickstart it? Here are some tips:

• Set a minimum of 1 hour per day non-negotiable time in your calendar
• Try something new (different channels, cadence, platforms)
• Revisit and refine your sales process

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

People and Resources Mentioned

• August 15 2022 Webinar: 6 Pillars of a 7-figure Recruitment Business Register for FREE here.
• Alexis Alvarez on LinkedIn
• Watch Alexis’ game-changer video via this link

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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Imagine growing your recruitment business from zero to 10,000,000 in net fee income in just 10 years!

That growth trajectory is highly unusual in recruitment. Yet Sphere Digital has achieved it. I was keen to uncover the key factors that enabled them to scale the business successfully so I interviewed Sphere co-founder, Ed Steer

What I learned is that they always had the mindset and intention to scale, so they set up the company for growth from the very start. Over the past decade, they’ve managed to build a high-performing team of 70 employees but it wasn’t a walk in the park!

Ed generously shared the things that worked, such as a real focus on training and creating career pathways for their people to be promoted internally. He also revealed the growing pains, mistakes and hard lessons they learned - especially as scaling rapidly can present a multitude of challenges.

Ed is the CEO of Sphere Digital Recruitment, a multi-award-winning agency specialising in recruiting marketing, sales, analytics, product & creative talent in the UK, Europe and North America. Winner of Best Small Company in the UK and London at Best Company Awards 2022, Sphere works with clients like Amazon, TikTok, Facebook and a whole host of house hold brands and innovative tech start-ups.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [2:35] How Sphere was conceptualized and started with growth in mind.
• [16:36] Transitioning from a billing manager to becoming a business manager - hear the enablers that made it happen for Ed.
• [25:34] Trust and enablement - practices and development plans for associates, consultants, directors, and beyond.
• [32:50] Challenges in managing a large team during rapid growth - Ed reveals some of the growing pains and learnings they had to go through.
• [37:30] Launching in North America - what made it successful for Sphere?
• [45:07] What are Ed’s biggest learnings for the past 10 years?
• [48:49] Discussion on the benefits of hosting events and building communities.

Organically Growing the Leadership Team with Trust and Enablement

Starting with two founders in 2012 in a small office in London, they now have more than 70 key employees covering not only the UK but also the US market. We discussed the milestones leading up to this growth as we all key success factors that enabled Ed to effectively transition from a billing manager to a business owner.

One outstanding takeaway I appreciate from this part of the interview is how they are growing leaders organically. To retain great talents and put clear developmental plans for their employees, internal growth is in place. You will hear how trust and enablement are practiced within their firm. Ed also shared about PROGRESS - a development plan for associates, consultants, directors, and beyond.

Rapid Growth Has Its Challenges

Just like with other organizations rapidly scaling, there will always be growing pains. This is the same for Sphere Recruitment as shared by Ed. Elaborating on some things that went wrong, Ed said, “Lots of junior managers hiring lots of junior people probably too fast.” He also added, “Maybe expanding the headcount when we didn’t have the job flow to support it.” To summarize, he felt that they were successful in growing but business but did not have the experience or the know-how to make it as good as they were when they were just 10 people.

What did they do to turn it around? Getting back to basics is the key. Focusing on their principles and repeating what makes them successful - business development and training.

The Formula to Success When Expanding to New Territories

Despite being pushed back because of the pandemic, Sphere Digital have recently expanded into the United States with an office in New York City. By allowing a senior member from the main office to facilitate the growth and manage the business in the US, they were able to retain the culture and values to the new office. This interesting approach is the same playbook I’ve observed with companies expanding into different regions and becoming successful in doing so: Having a client base in the new territory and sending someone from the main office to ‘evangelize’ the culture, processes, and way of working.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Ed Steer Bio and Contact Info

Ed is the CEO and Co-Founder of Sphere Digital Recruitment, a multi-award-winning Digital Media, Marketing, and Technology firm with offices in London and New York. Before starting Sphere, Ed worked with PFJ - from a consultant position to being an Associate Director in seven years.

Ed and his wife also enjoy volunteering with Fun in Action for Children, where they work as "befrienders" and mentors since May 2013. They spend one day a week (a Saturday or Sunday) spending time with a brilliant and talented person who needed some additional support, away from challenging home life.

• Ed on LinkedIn
• Sphere Digital Recruitment Website link
• Sphere Digital on Twitter
• Sphere Digital on Instagram
• Sphere Digital on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• Nick Eaves on LinkedIn
• Ann Swain on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#119 How to Achieve an Amazing Customer Experience for Both Clients and Candidates, with Nick Eaves * TRR#90 How to Build a World-Class Talent Development Program, with Ann Swain

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“Everybody struggles. Building a business is really hard.”

“But I’m going to keep listening to these podcasts and I’m going to keep pushing with my business… There’s no silver bullet, there’s no magic recipe, there’s no pill. You just need to keep going and going and going and eventually you get there.”

These are the wise words of my next podcast guest, and valued client, Karen Lloyd. In October 2020, Karen set herself the goal of transforming her recruitment business and coming on The Resilient Recruiter podcast to tell her story. Well, she has achieved her goal and more.

In the last 12 months, she has increased her billings by 300% through her relentless commitment to making small improvements to every aspect of her business, making her systems and processes more efficient and most importantly by never giving up.

In this episode, you will be inspired by Karen’s humility and resilience as she’s bounced back from multiple setbacks and regained her confidence.

Karen is the Managing Director of Armstrong Lloyd, a leading recruitment firm in the technology marketing space. Karen specializes in helping CMOs and marketing directors within technology companies to grow their teams and exceed their targets.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:14] Karen’s story of resilience and how she was inspired by the Resilient Recruiter Podcast.
• [4:20] How Karen started her recruitment career at age 21 and initially felt like a failure.
• [10:54] The steps Karen took to triple her billings in 12 months, and doubled her best ever year from pre-covid times!
• [18:34] What Karen’s learned from co-founding her first recruitment business at the age of 24 and scaling to a team of 20 people.
• [24:15] The huge setback that knocked Karen’s confidence, but ultimately led to Karen to launch her second recruitment business, Armstrong Lloyd, in 2014.
• [30:45] The turning point in her life and the parallels between running / personal fitness and running a recruitment business.
• [35:35] Karen reveals the biggest challenges she faced when growing her business.
• [35:20] Changes Karen made to her recruitment business to accelerate growth.
• [46:04] How Karen leverages content marketing and automated campaigns to get new clients.
• [50:55] Transitioning from contingency recruitment to a retained model.
• [54:55] Deciding whether to stay on your own or grow a firm.

Starting a Recruitment Business at a Young Age and Growing to a Team of 20

“This is something I have learned for myself at a young age. Don’t doubt yourself. Just try it, just do it, and see what happens.” This mindset equipped Karen with the determination to start her business with another person at the young age of 24. It was a challenging feat on its own – given that a transition from being a full-time employee to a business owner can sometimes be daunting. But they managed to grow their firm to a team of 20.

“It was an incredible journey and I have learned absolutely so much,” says Karen. She was involved in the major decision-making, marketing, hiring and launching new divisions from scratch. In this interview, Karen shares her insights and main learnings from this transition.

Bouncing Back from Setbacks

Karen also shared a time in her career ten years ago when her confidence took a knock. This was when she left the company she co-founded and had spent 14 years of her life building. It was heart-wrenching for Karen to walk away, but looking back she now knows it was the right thing to do.

What helped her overcome an experienced that was hard? For Karen, it is learning to ask for help. Karen started seeking support from a coach. This was an eye-opening experience and a game changer for her. Any roadblock she experiences, may it be related to her personal life, her personal fitness or her business, she finds getting help from a coach is one of the best courses of action. “The coaching part has been a phenomenal change,” is how she puts it.

How to Run Effective Virtual Team Meetings

We also talked about the changes that Karen implemented in her team to further accelerate their growth. One of the things that were discussed is running powerful online meetings with her team. Here are the takeaways from what Karen shared:

• Stop being too task-focused. Include time for ‘chit-chat’. Get feedback from your team members via informal conversations.
• Setting a timeline with a clear agenda.
• Have every person speak (sharing something going on with wins, challenges and updates).

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including: funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, backoffice support, marketing and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Karen Lloyd Bio and Contact Info

Karen placed her first candidate in 1996 - someone who she’s still in touch today. Karen has over 25 years experience in recruitment, with 20 years as a board director and business leader. She co-founded her first recruitment company at age of 24 and scaled it to 20 people. During that time, she started up a variety of new business divisions / brands from scratch. She’s now the founder and Managing Director of Armstrong Lloyd, a leading recruitment firm in the technology marketing space. She’s currently scaling the business and has increased her revenue by 300% in the last 12 months, doubling her previous best ever year. Karen’s also a valued member of Recruitment Coach Inner Circle coaching program.

• Karen on LinkedIn
• Armstrong Lloyd Marketing Recruitment website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Abid Hamid on LinkedIn
• Leanne Sara Jones Hunt on LinkedIn
• Mindset: The New Psychology of Success, by Carol Dweck

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#124 How to Recession-Proof Your Recruitment Business While Accelerating Growth, with Abid Hamid * TRR#66 How to Grow Your Recruitment Business by Hiring Top Recruiters, with Leanne Sara Jones Hunt

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Jordan Rayboy is famous within the recruitment industry for billing millions of dollars from his RV. In this interview he reveals that now at age 43 with 3 young kids, he’s no longer interested in accumulation, significance, ego, keeping score or trying to impress people.

Jordan says he’s rebalanced his life to prioritize health, fitness and family. He told me “I try to be the best husband and father I can be, try to be healthy and my work supports the rest of my life, rather than living to work… I’m in a much happier, positive mental place since the last time we talked.”

In this episode, Jordan gives his inspiring take on prioritizing what matters. He reveals how he is able to balance his priorities while being laser-focused on managing his recruitment business. We also talked about the importance of having a peer group, and he shared his thoughts on valuing mental health as well as practical tips on planning and productivity.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [2:52] Jordan describes his daily routine while running a recruiting business from his RV.
• [13:20] How being intentional enables Jordan to balance his priorities while running a profitable recruitment business.
• [17:50] Jordan’s “Power Planning” process, how to eliminate distractions and execute your plans.
• [25:43] Being laser-focused and why you need to have a scheduled planning time.
• [30:33] Jordan reveals what he is prioritizing at the moment and why he quit marijuana.
• [42:25] Insights on current events and his mindset towards recessions.
• [49:30] Why now is the time to keep learning and growing in your respective niche.

The Importance of Being Intentional

It has been around 15 months since we’ve heard Jordan in this podcast. He now shares his latest endeavours: having a new baby, focusing on his health, and prioritizing his family. “Being on the road and living the dream with three little kids and two dogs, still doing it 16 years into the adventure,” is how he describes it.

He detailed what his daily routine looks like, and it was interesting to hear how busy yet balanced it is in terms of quality of life. Jordan is able to rank a lot of things to improve personal well-being and family life while doing well in his recruitment business. What is the key to his success? For Jordan, it is all about being intentional.

He schedules his and his family’s health before scheduling phone calls. He knows his sleep is an important component of his health. He puts his sleep in his schedule. He schedules his time with his family first. Doing so, Jordan is in his best shape when it comes to “ground and pound” and is able to manage his business effectively.

How to Avoid Distractions and the Myth of Multitasking

Jordan is well-versed when it comes to power-planning. But for many of us, having a plan is not enough – the challenge is staying focused and executing our plan. How does Jordan stay on track? Jordan shared two tips:

• Having Open and Closed hours for both business or personal time. When somebody calls or texts him while biking, he doesn’t answer. Likewise, when he’s working, no one can disturb him in his air-conditioned trailer/office.

• Having a good plan allows you to be the author of your own story. It is about being proactive versus being reactive. Planning ahead and focusing on executing your plan can help out in eliminating time-wasters.

• Having a scheduled planning time. Jordan shares that this is the money-maker in the recruitment industry. You will hear him discuss this and why it makes sense.

Focus on the Right Priorities

With Jordan’s success in both business and personal life, what are his current priorities? He believes that he is past the accumulation stage. He has changed his priorities and is now more focused on things that allow him to find balance and happiness. Jordan's top priorities these days are more on his health and energy - both physically and mentally.

He has shifted his mindset to focusing on positive things. I asked Jordan about his feelings on a possible recession and he was able to share very practical tips on how to prepare based on having already experienced multiple recessions.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting up or scaling up and exiting your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Jordan Rayboy Bio and Contact Info

Jordan Rayboy has always taken the road less traveled. He began his recruiting career with MRI in 2000, and by 2005 was ranked Top Ten globally out of 5,000 recruiters. The following year, Jordan struck out on his own, forming Rayboy Insider Search – the nation’s leading executive search firm in the cybersecurity, data storage, and data center infrastructure marketplace. He joined the Pinnacle Society in 2009, and has served on their Board of Directors and as Member Education Chair.

Being an impatient type-A recruiter, Jordan long ago abandoned the deferred life plan (slave, save, retire). By building an effective virtual team and leveraging technology, Jordan has run his firm for over a decade while traveling full-time in a tour-bus RV with his wife Jeska, their three dogs, and their daughter Ryder. They’ve covered the majority of the U.S. and Canada during their adventure while living their dream every day.

• Jordan on LinkedIn
• Jordan on Twitter @jordanrayboy
• Rayboy Insider Search website link
• Rayboy IS on Facebook
• Rayboy IS on Instagram
• Rayboy IS on YouTube

People and Resources Mentioned

• Joel Slenning on LinkedIn
• Mark Phillips on LinkedIn
• Cathy Stewart on LinkedIn
• Rich Roll podcast link
• Atomic Habits by James Clear
• Indistractible by Nir Eyal
• The Myth of Multitasking by Dave Crenshaw
• Rich Dad Poor Dad Robert Kiyosaki

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#46 How to Run a Million Dollar Recruiting Firm From Your RV * TRR#53 How to Scale Your Staffing & Recruiting Firm to $16,000,000, With Joel Slenning

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“Turning around worst ever billing through the pandemic, to record-setting results currently.” In this episode, my special guest Wes Ashworth shares his story of the proactive steps he took to overcome a perfect storm of business during the height of the pandemic. He also explains how he went from 100% contingency to 100% retained!

Wes is the Vice President of Executive Search at Lee Group Search, and specializes in partnering with packaging companies nationwide to find the talent they need to grow and scale their business operations. He joined the company in 2014 as an Executive Search Consultant and was promoted to his current position in April 2020.

I’m especially proud of this episode because Wes credits The Resilient Recruiter as being a “lifeline” during the toughest period of his career, and helping him access the motivation, strategies, role models and resources he needed to turn things around.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [2:27] How Wes finds the Resilient Recruiter podcast value-adding.
• [4:30] Wes shares his story on how he came into recruiting.
• [6:45] Why 2020-21 were the worst years for Wes and how he turned it around.
• [19:02] Key changes implemented to shift from the worst times to the best.
• [25:18] “The world belongs to askers,” - how moving to the engaged model drastically changed Wes’ recruitment results.
• [33:15] Great ways to pitch the engaged model to your existing contingent clients.
• [39:30] Turning around the worst ever billing through the pandemic, to currently record-setting results.
• [42:05] How having a peer group to pace yourself against can give better results.
• [46:00] How to develop your messaging approach to stand out in a world of noise.

From Worst to Best Times - Key Success Factors

Wes’ recruitment journey is indeed colourful in terms of successes and learnings. He joined the industry around 2014, and three years later he was stable and was billing $550k with his own book of clients. He had high hopes for 2020 and he even got promoted to VP.

Then suddenly in March 2020, Wes’ high hopes came crashing down. Due to the pandemic, businesses and clients started to go away. His personal production plummeted and he was feeling the pressure. Being newly promoted, he had to carry his team’s performance which added more stress. Like with many others, the negativity brought about by the pandemic placed a great toll on Wes both personally and professionally.

Wes was never a quitter. With the support of his wife and the proactive actions that he took, he was actually able to turn from the worst times to the best times of his career. This is a story I am sure you will want to hear. What are the key factors that enabled him to overcome this colossal challenge? Here are some takeaways from our conversation:

• Revisiting his business development and quantifying his efforts. Wes discussed how doing so made him realize that he lost around $600k+ in billings.

• Transitioning from 100% contingent, to 100% engaged/retained. This was not easy, but as Wes discussed it, he had to “put his stake in the ground and don’t look back”.

• Listening to the Resilient Recruiter podcast and reaching out to those whose stories resonated with him.

• Having a peer group - applying for and getting accepted to the Pinnacle Society.

Wes discussed each of the above in this episode and even shared other best practices.

The World Belongs to Askers

One game-changer that contributed to Wes’ success is how he transitioned from 100% contingent to 100% retained. This was not easy at the onset as he had to be willing to walk away from businesses. Initially, Wes focused on implementing this approach to his new clients. How did Wes transition from pure contingent to engaged? He is a firm believer in the advice that “the world belongs to askers.” Asking the right questions enabled him to apply the retained approach to new clients and to some legacy clients as well.

Wes is confident that he made the right decision, saying “honestly there is nothing in my mind that can convince me otherwise to do anything different.”

Aside from the outstanding results profit-wise, he found that it makes more sense for him and his clients. With this approach, he is able to foster a working relationship based on trust. To Wes’ realization, if a client would not want to pay an engagement fee, it could be that they don’t trust you. He believes that if a client does not trust you, it will not be a good working relationship and best to move forward.

How to Stand Out in A World of Noise

Wes also shared his best approach to improving his messaging. There is a lot of noise out there at the moment, so how did Wes change his business development strategy? His approach is more niche specific. He also utilizes LinkedIn automation. He explained that it is not overbearing, it’s important to come across as a normal person. His messaging leans more on being raw, real and relevant. You will hear how he turned his messaging upside down and generated better results.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

We’re excited to announce that Recruitment Entrepreneur will be sponsoring the podcast! If you’ve dreamed of starting up or scaling up and exiting your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Wes Ashworth Bio and Contact Info

A member of The Pinnacle Society, Wes continues to find success through his strong belief in doing the right thing, caring about people and fostering close relationships with both the company and the candidate.

His proven process to align talent to grow businesses starts with taking the time to deeply understand what a business needs, the culture they’ve created for their team members and what type of candidate will help them grow. It stretches into getting that same level of understanding from the candidate. This work goes beyond a traditional meet and greet or interview. It’s more than a job description and more than a resume.

For Wes, getting the perfect fit is the name of the game. Finding the candidate that fits the company and the company that fits the candidate are both critical. Only with a carefully evaluated fit will a candidate be positioned for success and find fulfillment in their job. In turn, companies benefit from an engaged employee who is a top performer over the long term.

Wes’ laser focus on fit and long-term success has served him well. Recalling a client who turned to Lee Group Search with a job opening that several other agencies could not fill after more than six months of searching for candidates, Wes took the time to learn about the company and get up to speed on the nuances of the specific job requirements and culture of the organization. Within a few weeks, he was able to fill the position with the right candidate who went on to be successful with the company. Today, Wes counts the company as one of his most loyal clients.

When he’s not matching candidates with positions, Wes enjoys spending quality time with his family and being around the water – piloting his kayak, catching a fish, or simply relaxing at the beach.

• Wes on LinkedIn
• Lee Group Search website link
• Lee Group Search on Facebook
• Lee Group Search on YouTube
• The Pinnacle Society website link
• Danny Parch’s PMC (Cause Wes wishes to support) website link
• Experience Camps website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Joe Rice on LinkedIn
• Rich Rosen on LinkedIn
• Josh Braun on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#67Think Like a Big Biller: How to Get Repeat Business and Referrals, with Rich Rosen * TRR#55 How to Build (or Rebuild) Your Recruitment Firm to 7-Figures From Scratch, with Joe Rice

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If you want to make more (and better) placements, you owe it to yourself to study “Performance-based Hiring.” The creator of Performance-based Hiring is Lou Adler, and I’m excited to have him on the podcast to learn from his four decades of recruitment experience.

In our interview, you will hear Lou’s philosophy on figuring out the “performance objectives” for each role, instead of simply focusing on the skills that are needed. Lou’s models, examples and anecdotes are rich with insights for agency recruiters who want to gain the respect of hiring managers and get better results for their clients.

With over 40 years in the recruiting industry, Lou's company ‘The Adler Group’ has trained over 40,000 hiring managers and placed over 1500 executives for many of the fastest-growing companies with clients including Disney, General Dynamics and Paycom. Lou has over 1.4 Million followers on Linkedin and is one of the top bloggers on LinkedIn’s Influencer program writing about the latest trends in hiring, employment, and recruiting. His articles and research have also been featured in Inc. Magazine, Business Insider, Bloomberg, SHRM, and The Wall Street Journal.

Lou is the author of ‘The Essential Guide for Hiring & Getting Hired’ and the Amazon top-10 best-seller, ‘Hire With Your Head - Performance-Based Hiring to Build Outstanding Diverse Teams.’

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:24] Lou’s fascinating story of how he became an executive recruiter.
• [6:46] The concept of “applicant control.”
• [9:30] How to become a thought leader in your recruitment niche.
• [12:46] What is the “One Question Interview?”
• [22:30] Get the respect and co-operation of hiring managers and other stakeholders with the Challenger Sales Model.
• [33:45] Lou shares his insights on Performance-Based and Evidence-Based Hiring.
• [37:00] Lou discusses the one-question interview with the analogy of peeling an onion.
• [43:01] How the performance-based approach can increase candidate engagement.
• [48:40] What is the most important piece of technology in recruitment?

The Sherlock Holmes of Recruitment

Lou has had a diverse experience in his career, from becoming a nuclear missiles engineer to running manufacturing companies as a financial analyst. It is in recruitment that he found his calling. Lou’s background gave him a unique perspective when he joined the industry. This led him to invent what’s now known as the ‘Performance-based Hiring' model. In this interview, you will hear out-of-the-box ideas that you may find useful in your own recruiting practice. Some of these are:

• Performance-based Hiring
• Evidenced-based Hiring
• The One-Question Interview
• Challenger Sales Model

His insights are invaluable and I am sure you will find them beneficial.

Ask the Right Questions

Lou is famous for the concept of the “One Question Interview.”

You will hear the interesting story of how Lou came up with this idea. The logic behind it is very straightforward - how would a candidate identify broken processes? How would the candidate solve it? What has the candidate accomplished comparable to how he responded to the two previous questions? Lou used the analogy of peeling an onion when describing this approach which is the basis of the evidenced-based and performance-based hiring. In fact, the process can be outlined as follows:

1. Figuring out the performance objectives
2. Having the candidate present what they accomplished
3. Having the candidate present evidence of what they have accomplished

It does make sense that this pragmatic approach can increase the probability of hiring the right candidate by focusing on accomplishments without emotional bias.

The Most Important Piece of Technology in Recruitment

You may also be intrigued with Lou’s perspective on the most critical piece of technology in recruitment. With Lou having around 1.4m followers on the platform, is it LinkedIn? Is it high-end CRM platforms? Here is what Lou said:

“I did my last LinkedIn Talent Connect where I have thousands of people there. They talked all about this great technology. So I spoke in the afternoon to a sub-group… and I said ‘you know there is one piece of technology that nobody talked about. As far as I am concerned it is the most important and nobody… it is right here. It is the phone. You got to talk to people. To me, high-tech is not going to cut it. You got to combine the best of high-tech with high-touch.”

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting up or scaling up and exiting your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Lou Adler Bio and Contact Info

Lou Adler is the CEO and founder of Performance-based Hiring Learning Systems – a consulting and training firm helping recruiters and hiring managers around the world source, interview and hire the strongest and most diverse talent. Lou is the author of the Amazon top-10 best-seller, Hire With Your Head (John Wiley & Sons, 3rd Edition, 2007), The Essential Guide for Hiring & Getting Hired (Workbench Media, 2013) and the Lynda.com Performance-based Hiring video training program (2016). His current “Diversity Hiring without Compromise” initiative is focused on developing a colourblind hiring process that ensures the best people get hired regardless of race, religion, age, sexual preference and physical challenges.

Lou is one of the top bloggers on LinkedIn’s Influencer program writing about the latest trends in hiring, employment, and recruiting. His articles, quotes and research can now be found in Inc. Magazine, Business Insider, Bloomberg, SHRM and The Wall Street Journal. The company’s new mobile-ready learning platform – Win-Win Hiring Learning Systems – provides instant access to all of the tools needed to find and hire outstanding talent.

• Lou on LinkedIn
• Performance-Based Hiring website link
• "Almost Daily Recruiting Show" podcast link
• The Essential Guide for Hiring and Getting Hired
• Hiring with Your Head - Performance-Based Hiring

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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There are significant advantages to being known as the premium brand in your market. For one, you can charge higher fees than your competitors. Secondly, your job as a recruiter is more fulfilling because you’re focused on delivering exceptional client and candidate experiences.

Rob Bowerman is President and Executive Recruiter at The Bowerman Group, focused on recruiting for specialty and luxe brands. As you’ll hear from Rob, earning a reputation as the premium recruitment firm in their market has been a critical factor in their long-term success. Rob’s background in the retail sector gives him credible insights and perspectives on the topic of delivering outstanding customer service in the recruitment field.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [2:21] How The Bowerman Group are winning more retained searches and increasing their average fee.
• [9:33] Customer experience - lessons from premium retail brands that Rob has applied to recruiting.
• [14:54] Powerful questions you can ask your clients to assess their specific needs.
• [16:26] How to partner with HR while having access to the hiring manager.
• [21:13] Rob reveals their processes for ensuring a positive customer experience for both the candidates and clients.
• [27:48] What defines a positive client experience?
• [39:11] What could stop a recruitment firm from delivering a positive client experience?
• [43:49] How to consistently deliver a great experience to candidates even if they are not moving forward in the hiring process.
• [47:00] Rob reveals the burning issues discussed at a recent Pinnacle Society meeting, including preventing and handling counteroffers.
• [56:20] Why it is a great time to be in our industry.

How The Bowerman Group Increased their Average Fee by $6,200

The last time I collaborated with Rob in this show was two years ago. It was indeed an amazing conversation (link of the episode below) and as the head of the Pinnacle Society, Rob also introduced me to other members who became guests of this show. This kind of support brought tremendous value to our audience and I am truly grateful. What has happened in the last two years? As with all businesses, the last couple of years were truly unprecedented. Rob shared a lot of learnings and strategies.

You will hear how they intensionally focused on higher-level roles. The benefit of this has been twofold - winning more retained searches while also increasing their average fee from $21,800 to $28,000.

The success of the Bowerman Group can be attributed to how they value client and candidate experience, which became a core topic in this episode.

Becoming a Premium Brand in Recruiting Through Client and Candidate Engagement

Coming from the Retail and Merchandising industry, Rob learned a great deal when it comes to customer experience. From his standpoint, a customer is not only your client but your candidate as well.

He recently did a LinkedIn post (link below) about notifying a candidate that will not be moving forward with the recruitment process. The main theme is, “How can you not approach recruitment - either as an internal recruiter or external recruitment partner - without empathy and appreciation for the candidate's work in the process?” This post got hundreds of reactions and responses. It amazes Rob that since we are in the people business, the reactions and number of reactions were indicative that it is a massive issue within our industry.

In this episode, Rob gave a great analogy on what defines a great customer experience. He then shared their process of engaging with clients and candidates consistently. He also gave insights on what could be preventing a recruitment firm from providing the same positive customer experience to its clients and candidates.

The Bowerman Group Difference

So what makes the Bowerman Group different from other recruitment brands? How do they consistently ensure positive customer engagement from both clients and candidates? Rob elaborated on the following pointers that I am sure you will find valuable:

• How to ensure that you’re giving candidates feedback within 48 hours
• Doing the Job Intake Call effectively
• Asking the right questions to assess the client’s culture
• Partnering with HR and Hiring Managers
• Process for preparing both candidates and clients for interview

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

We’re excited to announce that Recruitment Entrepreneur will be sponsoring the podcast! If you’ve dreamed of starting up or scaling up and exiting your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Rob Bowerman Bio and Contact Info

Rob started The Bowerman Group in 2009 after having been a successful Executive Recruiter since 1994. He discovered his passion for Search following a career in merchandising and shares his love for the industry with his team, clients, and candidates every day.

Carving out a unique niche that focused on speciality and luxe brands, he has developed long-standing relationships with many respected American and European designer apparel, accessory, jewellery, and home furnishing companies. Rob had a vision of creating a boutique firm that matched the unique profile of this niche—excellence, brand heritage, and an unwavering dedication to quality. This vision has manifested itself into a dynamic group that is experiencing consistent year-over-year increases in successfully completed searches within TBG’s unique niche.

Rob currently serves as the President of The Pinnacle Society, the premier consortium of industry-leading recruiters in North America. He is proud of his association with this group of the “best and brightest” within the search profession as well as honoured to be the only “retail guy” in the organization.

• Rob Bowerman on LinkedIn
• The Bowerman Group website link
• The Bowerman Group on Facebook
• The Bowerman Group on Instagram
• The Bowerman Group on YouTube

People and Resources Mentioned

• Rob’s LinkedIn post on following through with candidates
• How to Gain Access to Hiring Managers Without Alienating HR
• Michael Pietrack on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#32 How to Build a 7-Figure Search Firm with a Small Virtual Team, with Rob Bowerman * TRR#106 How to Bill £12,800,000 in 14 Years, with Michael Pietrack

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Last time Paul Taaffe came on the podcast, we heard how this former CFO has enjoyed extraordinary success running a boutique search firm. He revealed how he managed to bill €4,000,000 in revenue with a small team.

Nearly two years later, Paul is back for his second appearance on the show. You’ll hear fascinating insights on how to gain an advantage over the competition and outperform even the biggest search firms in the world.

Paul’s philosophy is about providing “return on energy invested.” He and his team provide an efficient service without compromising quality by leveraging their relationships and market knowledge. You’ll learn how he achieves market mastery by carefully cultivating his network so he can deliver a shortlist in 30 days or less. On multiple occassions, Paul has made a €100,000 placement fee in 7 days!

Paul is the founder and CEO of FINANCE People Solutions (FPS) based in Frankfurt, Germany. Prior to starting his business in 2014, he was either a CFO or CRO for US global corporations as well as high profile private equity funds and their portfolios where he mastered various change management challenges, from turnaround and restructuring to the implementation of new growth strategies.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:43] Paul shares the latest developments at his firm, Finance People Solutions.
• [6:15] FPS’ focus market, revenue stream, and marketing strategy.
• [10:35] How to choose the right client to work with - and when to walk away.
• [15:30] Coaching your clients on their recruitment process
• [16:53] Paul’s top tips on how to market a candidate.
• [20:36] FPS’ new Benchmarking Products as a differentiator
• [23:30] Why Paul launched his own podcast.
• [27:26] Why ‘head-hunting’ is an outdated term and Paul prefers ‘resource matching.’
• [33:58] How to build your brand on LinkedIn.
• [43:01] Paul reveals what he learned from working for Phil Knight, Nike’s co-founder.
• [51:00] Why Paul likes to hire students when building his team

Choosing the Right Clients

Paul is a fan of positive energy which means he is selective of the clients he works with. He only works with committed clients, no contingency, only retained or exclusive. In our interview, Paul shared his criteria in client selection and when to ‘fire’ or let go of a client.

“If we do not enjoy working together, if the process is not good, in this day and age if you get your hands on top three candidates or two or even one for this matter, we never say we are going to produce a shortlist, we will produce at least one … and the customer is not coming back, not setting up appointments, not picking it up, that is no good we are wasting people’s time,” is how Paul described it. He shared concrete examples based on experience how in some cases it did not work with some clients.

Also, given the current situation in the market where recruitment needs to adapt, how do you coach your compatible clients on improving their recruitment process? Paul shares his best practices.

Marketing and Brand Building Best Practices

Although Paul’s background is in finance, he is actually excellent at marketing. In this interview, you will hear some of his marketing strategies including:

• FPS Benchmarking Product
• Podcast
• Partnership with FINANCE Magazin
• LinkedIn content

Paul believes US companies are the best at marketing and says his experience at Nike helped him to become a great marketer.

Why Head-Hunting is a Term of the Past

Another interesting topic we talked about is the term “headhunting” which Paul believes is outdated. As Paul said, “The difference for us is we have relationships with these people… That is why I don’t like this term head-hunting… I call it resource matching. We match resources. We don’t headhunt people, we have them already in our network. So it is about what is the best position for these people. So it is an evolution from the old headhunting.”

Paul doesn’t need to “hunt” because he’s already mapped his market and curated a strong network. Since he already knows and has relationships with the vast majority of the candidates in his space, he is able to move fast without compromising quality.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

We’re excited to announce that Recruitment Entrepreneur will be sponsoring the podcast! If you’ve dreamed of starting up or scaling up and exiting your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Paul Taaffe Bio and Contact Info

Paul is the founder and CEO of FINANCE People Solutions (PFS) in 2014. He has been in the recruitment business since 2014, and prior to that, he was either a CFO or CRO for US global blue-chip companies such as Pepsi Cola, Nike, Lear Corporation, and Dell as well as having worked in Private Equity. He founded the PE Finance Organisation Benchmarking company, Taaffe and Partners in 2011.

• Paul on LinkedIn
• FINANCE People Solutions website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Joel Slenning on LinkedIn
• Shoe Dog, by Phil Knight
• Finance Magazin website link

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#21 The Former CFO Turned Finance Recruiter Who Billed €4M Last Year, with Paul Taaffe * TRR#53 How to Scale Your Staffing & Recruiting Firm to $16,000,000, With Joel Slenning

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Want to attract inbound client leads and convert them into engaged search assignments, where the client pays part of the fee up front?

Then you’ll love my interview with Skip Freeman, founder of Smart Buildings Talent. Skip shared that he’s currently working on 13 engaged searches simultaneously at 25% fees. Of those 13 searches, 12 of them were inbound leads meaning the client approached Skip instead of the other way around.

Skip reveals some of his most effective tactics and strategies, including a detailed masterclass on how to be “prominent and visible” in your chosen niche. You’ll also hear his fascinating story of resilience - from building a business, overcoming prostate cancer, and restarting from the ground up.

Skip is the Founder and President of Smart Buildings Talent, specializing in Buildings Automation and Smart Industry. Skip graduated from the United States Military Academy, West Point, in 1976, with a bachelor's degree in Mechanical Engineering and has almost 20 years of experience as a recruitment business owner.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [2:22] Skip shares how he became a recruiter and the latest accomplishments of Smart Buildings Talent
• [9:24] How to become a specialist and find a super-focused niche.
• [15:06] Global Acquisition: Key factors that made Skip’s firm attractive to a global brand.
• [22:09] Steps to becoming prominent and visible in your chosen niche.
• [36:38] Skip’s tips for consistently creating and posting content on LinkedIn.
• [44:49] The importance of systems - Skip reveals his “sequence of recruitment operations.”
• [55:00] Skip’s process for closing engaged searches including the ingredients of a winning proposal.

Finding a Super-Focused Niche

A recent achievement that Skip shared is when a global IT consulting and contract staffing firm, Emerge360, reached out to acquire his brand, Smart Building Talent. This is an outstanding accomplishment for a business of its size - and what made it possible are three things:

• Finding a critical niche
• Having a systematic approach
• Building a brand

On the topic of finding a critical niche, Skip’s background in mechanical engineering served as a foundation to look at focusing on automation and discovering the talent behind this industry. He then focused on his mastery in this specialty which was a critical game-changer in his business. Skip also revealed what made him prominent and visible in his chosen niche.

Your Recruitment "Sequence of Operations"

Another topic that Skip shared is the system he discovered, which he refers to as his sequence of recruitment operations. “A system is going to be a consistent process that everybody understands, and you have the tools as well as needed. Every time you get a job order, it enters into the system,” is how he describes it.

Inspired by Mike Pietrack and Scott Adams, you will hear his four major steps to the job order fulfilment process:

• Find
• Attract
• Qualify
• Land

How to Be Prominent and Visible in Your Chosen Niche

Choosing the niche and area of specialisation is the first step, but how do you become prominent and visible in your chosen niche? How do you generate inbound leads? Skip shared how he does it. From his experience, he explained how he attends trade shows, creates articles and content specifically for his industry, and how he has become a “community leader” on LinkedIn. You will hear how to use polls to your advantage and how to generate inbound leads from LinkedIn.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

We’re excited to announce that Recruitment Entrepreneur will be sponsoring the podcast! If you’ve dreamed of starting up or scaling up and exiting your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Skip Freeman Bio and Contact Info

Skip Freeman graduated from the United States Military Academy, West Point, in 1976, with a bachelor's degree in Mechanical Engineering. He served in the US Army Corps of Engineers, more specifically the Combat Engineers, after which he moved into industry as a chemical sales rep for a major speciality chemical company.

He progressed from field sales into sales management. As a Sales Manager, Skip had started using one particular recruiter for all of his hiring needs. That relationship began with none other than an MPC marketing call. And while that candidate wasn't hired, many were over the next several years.

Then Skip's firm was purchased. To stay with the company, he was going to have to relocate. That not being an option due to family reasons, he called his recruiter this time saying, "I don't need a candidate, I'm going to need a job." After some contemplation, his recruiter said, "Have you ever thought about running your own business? Skip said, "Tell me more..." and that's how Skip's recruiting career began.

With some of Skip's recruitment work helping to hire chemists and chemical engineers, he was contacted by an agency in Washington, DC, which led to an interesting parallel journey. in which Skip recruited for the CIA for 4-years.

In 2013, he started building a recruiting firm and his wife joined him in the business. His firm reached a size of 8 people when he suffered a personal setback, prostate cancer, which, more or less, took him out of the game for 3-years. One by one everyone in the firm dwindled away or needed to be fired until it was just Skip again along with his wife.

Since then he’s completely rebuilt his business as the founder and president of Smart Buildings Talent, focused on buildings automation and smart industry. Today he is back with an exciting story that illustrates perseverance, discipline, and a will to win.

• Skip on LinkedIn
• Skip on Twitter @SBTrecruiter
• Skip on YouTube
• Smart Buildings Talent website link
• Smart Buildings Talent on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• Michael Pietrack on LinkedIn
• David Perry on LinkedIn
• Shield Analytics website link

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#106 How to Bill £12,800,000 in 14 Years, with Michael Pietrack * TRR#26 Canada Day Special: How the Rogue Recruiter Closed 1100 Searches, with David Perry

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“For those out there that are starting a firm or for those recruiters out there thinking about starting a firm… when people really will look at the mirror and understand what their capabilities are, and where there are gaps and they work on that, they will then become a better leader.”

I am very much looking forward to sharing this episode with you. My very special guest, Bert Miller, with more than 25 years of leadership experience in the world of work, has been very generous in sharing golden nuggets of wisdom. Hear his fascinating insights on the “Great Realignment” and how it impacts our recruitment business today. You will also hear major trends in the recruitment industry as well as effective techniques you can use to warm up your leads.

Bert currently serves as President of Protis Global, plus President and CEO of MRINetwork, a network-centric recruitment organization that offers consulting, training, contract staffing, and community building to over 325 search firms worldwide

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [2:05] How Bert started as a recruiter leading up to him becoming President and CEO of MRI.
• [8:06] How recruitment firm owners can future-proof their business.
• [10:30] The 10-4-2 strategy to engage people on LinkedIn.
• [16:32] How to effectively use LinkedIn to warm up your leads using the headline approach.
• [26:25] What is the “Great Realignment?”
• [31:50] Bert’s principle on ‘storytelling your North Star.”
• [37:35] The importance of empowering your recruiters to have their own personal brand.
• [42:29] Circling back to the Great Realignment, how do recruitment business owners ensure that they are in the forefront?
• [45:13] Bert shares the biggest mistakes he sees recruiters making: from rookies to long-term veterans.
• [48:39] Success factors for owning and growing a recruitment firm.

LinkedIn Strategies to Warm Up Your Leads

How are you using LinkedIn as a tool to find potential candidates or clients? You will be delighted to hear strategies shared by Bert on how to warm up your leads using this platform. How do you connect with an executive? How do you make your presence felt with insightful engagement? Bert shared two techniques:

• The 10-4-2 Strategy and
• The Headline Approach

The Great Realignment

A fascinating insight shared by Bert is about the “Great Realignment”. In his words, “What happened in the last two and a half years only accelerated something that is already underway… The power of individuals coming in to play… The dynamics coming into play about the hybrid model, working flexible… I think companies that do not react or respond enough on the last several years to the individual… those organizations are now stepping back.”

With this transition, how do recruitment businesses remain in the forefront instead of being left behind? Bert placed an emphasis on rehiring your people all the time - keeping the ones you have and storytelling your North Star. You will hear a more elaborated explanation about it in this episode. Also, key areas that would need to be addressed are:

• Proper planning
• Learning what is going on in your sector
• Going deeper in your ‘dig’

Bert’s Success Factors in Owning and Scaling Your Recruitment Business

With over 25 years of leadership experience in the world of work running Protis Global and becoming President of the MRI Network, what are the success factors that Bert can share to all our listeners?

“I find myself at 60-years-old continuing to learn every day. I know that I am not there. My team does that too. So having that humility and vulnerability does not make you weaker as an organization, it actually makes you stronger.”

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

We’re excited to announce that Recruitment Entrepreneur will be sponsoring the podcast! If you’ve dreamed of starting up or scaling up and exiting your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Bert Miller Bio and Contact Info

With over 25 years of leadership experience in the world of work, Bert E. Miller currently serves as CEO of Protis Global, Ace Talent Curators, and President and CEO of MRI Network. MRI is a network-centric recruitment organization that offers consulting, training, contract staffing, and community building to over 325 search firms worldwide. Bert also co-founded Protis Global, an award-winning search and recruitment firm specializing in the F&B, CPG, cannabis, and hospitality industries. Bert is an active speaker, mentor, advisor, and investor. He hosts the MRINetwork Podcast and his new video podcast series, "Beyond the Bottom Line," features interviews with CEOs and leaders from across categories on issues impacting the world of work.

• Bert on LinkedIn
• MRI Network website link
• Protis Global website link
• BCC Media website link
• MRI Network on Facebook
• Bert on Twitter
• Bert on Instagram
• Bert on YouTube

People and Resources Mentioned

• Joe Mullings on LinkedIn
• Building a StoryBrand, by Donald Miller
• Chris Voss on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR #80 How to Use Video to Attract Candidates and Grow Your Recruitment Business, with Joe Mullings

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Are you putting up with companies who aren’t your ideal clients? Does the thought of asking for a retainer or increasing your rates scare the hell out of you? Do you have a mind block to being more specialized or refocusing on a niche that’s truly aligned with the direction you want to take your recruitment business?

In this interview, my special guest Jackie Rothschild shares how after years of struggle, a change in approach and mindset enabled her to attract the right clients – clients who were willing to work with her as a true partner. You’ll also hear Jackie’s inspiring story of resilience, and how a health crisis was the catalyst for renewed determination to succeed and no longer being willing to settle.

Jackie is a Human capital advisor and retained search executive for PBMs (pharmacy benefit managers) and Physician practice owners who want to grow their business and hire the most qualified PBM, healthcare executives and clinicians.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:46] Jackie’s journey from being a licensed pharmacist to becoming a recruiter.
• [10:09] Jackie reveals her struggles and lessons when starting her recruitment firm from the ground up.
• [16:26] How you should define your niche if working in a broad industry.
• [21:30] How to identify the best client you should be working with.
• [26:23] Training a Virtual Assistant from administrative tasks to making placement - how Jackie developed her VA
• [32:46] Jackie’s recent biggest challenge and how it defines resilience.
• [49:58] Getting off the hamster wheel through retained business.

From a Successful Pharmaceutical Career to a Starting a Recruitment Business

Jackie shared her successful career as a licensed pharmacist when she worked in the Pharmacy Benefit Industry (PBM) for 15 years. Being a friendly person, she built an extensive network of connections. Her friends made her a point of contact if ever they needed to hire a specialist in the industry. This made Jackie realise that recruitment is something she should try. Even with no prior background, she took a massive salary cut, took a risk, and started her recruitment career.

She was then assigned to build a branch for her staffing firm which became a huge success. This is when her husband encouraged her to start her recruitment firm. It was a strange idea in the beginning since she had no business background. She took a risk and started Acclaimed Staffing. At the onset, things were okay but were not clicking. This is where her story becomes interesting. She shared her struggles and learnings. You will hear instances of failures and adversities, but what will resonate is her journey of resilience.

COVID Setbacks and Surviving Cancer

An astonishing revelation that Jackie shared in our interview is how she was able to overcome a series of devastating events. In 2020, Jackie’s business was affected by the pandemic. At that time, she was also diagnosed with a very rare type of cancer with which very few medical professionals in the country can deal with it. As she was recovering from surgery, her husband had a heart attack.

Those were trying times for Jackie and her husband. What type of treatment did Jackie have to endure? How was she able to manage her business? How is Jackie doing now? I am confident that you will be inspired by her story of grit, resilience, and courage. Her husband calls Jackie a badass, and once you hear her story I think you’ll agree!

Getting off the Hamster Wheel Through Retained Business

Jackie shared how she learned to filter the best client when she shifted to the retained business model. For her, it was a change in mindset. This enabled her to walk away from new clients that are not really a good fit and made her focus on her partners or clients that stood by her. If you are contemplating whether you should consider shifting from a contingent to a retained search model, I highly recommend hearing out how it became a game-changer for Jackie.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

We’re excited to announce that Recruitment Entrepreneur will be sponsoring the podcast! If you’ve dreamed of starting up or scaling up and exiting your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Jackie Rothschild Bio and Contact Info

Jackie is the owner of Acclaimed Staffing and CEO of Rothschild RX.

Acclaimed Staffing is an Arizona staffing agency that specializes in the healthcare career placement of all aspects for ambulatory surgical centres, clinics, medical offices, hospitals, imaging and radiology centres, nursing homes, home care, hospice, and other healthcare facilities. Jackie and her team have been trusted business partners for over 7 years servicing many medical offices, health plans, home health and assisted living facilities in finding mid-level and executive clinicians and ancillary staff.

Jackie is a licensed pharmacist since 1995 and worked in the PBM (pharmacy benefit management) industry for over 15 years. Based on her deep PBM roots, RothschildRx was formed in 2021 to specifically service the PBM (pharmacy benefit management) industry.

Recently due to their successful track record, the RothschildRx team is being awarded an exclusive talent sourcing agreement with a leading mid-market PBM.

Originally from Brooklyn, NY, Jackie is living in Arizona where she lives with her husband, 2 children, and 4 “furry children”.

• Jackie on LinkedIn
• Acclaimed Staffing website link
• Acclaimed Staffing on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• Joel Slenning on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#53 How to Scale Your Staffing & Recruiting Firm to $16,000,000, With Joel Slenning

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An ironic fact about the recruitment industry is that we have a very high attrition rate and so much churn, which can often translate into a massive drain on profit and can be an impediment to growth. My special guest, Mark Skinner, shares how they set up a work culture which has led to their recruitment team having an average tenure of more than eight years.

Mark is the Co-Founder & Managing Director of CSC Recruitment, a construction recruitment firm founded in 2005. CSC has 25 employees with 3 offices and specialist teams dealing with freelance, permanent, and executive search with a thriving international division. Mark began his recruiting career in 1998.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:56] Why Mark started his own recruitment business.
• [5:52] With an average tenure of 8 years, Mark discussed how they take care of their people.
• [15:29] How to set up an achievement culture for your recruitment team.
• [27:13] How to track and create an inventory of your team’s achievements.
• [32:18] Best practices for taking care of your team’s mental health - how to make them feel okay to share if they are not okay.
• [42:05] Mark shares their greatest accomplishments
• [50:50] CSC Recruitment’s approach to partnering with clients.
• [55:29] Key factor in CSC’s success in winning businesses: consultative and solutions sales approach.

The Key to Having An Average Tenure of Eight Years

If there is a secret to having a sustainable and profitable business that grows over time, holding on to your team members - especially the ones performing well - is important. Mark and I discussed how they take care of their people leading to their average tenure of eight years. Some of the key highlights of our discussion on this topic are as follows:

• Having a management mindset where people come first
• Covering healthcare and prioritizing mental health
• Recognize your team’s efforts with celebration and praise even on small wins

The last item is a very interesting topic we covered which is about building a culture of achievement.

Building a Culture of Achievement via Company Conferences

On top of hosting sales meetings six times a year to recognize top billers, Mark’s company also do what they call ‘company conferences’. Over 17 years, they have done around 40 overseas trips where they take everyone. These conferences are a testament to how they value the contributions of their respective teams. The basis of where they are going or how expensive the trip is going to be will depend not only on individual achievements but also on overall group performance.

It Is Okay Not to Be Okay - Taking Care of Your Team’s Mental Health

Another theme that stood out in our interview is how Mark is taking care of their team’s mental health. “Let’s face it millions of people said it before, the stigma is about it, a lot of people don’t understand it… when we found people that we think are happy go lucky… and you found out, hang on one second, they’re not and you try and help them. When the business was new, we didn’t have a lot of things in our toolbox,” is how Mark described how it was when they were just starting their business. Their commitment to their principle of “people come first” ensures that they have sufficient support from professionals. They made it possible for the people in their team to have someone to talk to 24/7 and if needed, therapists to give help.

What if people are not covered by their healthcare provider because of pre-existing conditions? Mark’s company pay a significant amount to help that person.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

We’re excited to announce that Recruitment Entrepreneur will be sponsoring the podcast! If you’ve dreamed of starting up or scaling up and exiting your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters who they can invest in. Start a conversation here: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Mark Skinner Bio and Contact Info

Mark is the Co-founder & Managing Director of CSC Recruitment. He spent four years with Hays and Hill McGlynn (now Randstad) before setting up a construction division for a boutique agency and then establishing CSC 2 years later. A graduate in Economics and Politics from the University of Kent, Mark founded CSC Recruitment as a consultancy-led construction business to work with clients looking for a recruitment partner rather than a supplier.

• Mark on LinkedIn
• CSC Recruitment website link
• CSC Recruitment on Twitter
• CSC Recruitment on Facebook
• CSC Recruitment on Instagram
• Brain Trust - a non-profit organisation that Mark fully supports: website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Leanne Sara Jones Hunt on LinkedIn
• Craig Paisley on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#31 Protecting Your Team’s Mental Health While Scaling Your Search Business, with Paul Hallam

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Are you concerned about what is going to happen when the current growth in the recruitment industry starts to slow down?

While the recruitment industry is still enjoying the momentum from 2021, propelling it forward through Q1 and most likely Q2 too, it remains a cyclical industry. Sooner or later, economic growth and hiring will decelerate.

In this episode, Abid Hamid reveals the biggest concerns and hot topics on the minds of recruitment business founders and CEOs. The information that he shares in this interview can make a valuable contribution to any size recruitment business.

His advice is to prepare right now for when the next slow cycle comes around. This could be in 6 or 18 months from now and nobody can predict the exact date for the change in direction. The only certainty is that there will be one again and this should urge recruitment business owners to take the necessary steps to protect their businesses while still scaling and growing.

One of the ways to do this is by creating and sustaining sticky relationships with your clients. He explains all you need to know about how to do this in the next hour of conversation.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:38] Abid explains the importance of sharing ideas with like-minded experts in your field
• [04:00] What are the hot topics in the minds of recruitment CEOs?
• [06:17] What’s the definition of a client? What does a sticky client relationship look like?
• [09:50] What is the cost of the business you have and is it something you want?
• [13:00] Abid expands on payment terms and how to collect your accounts receivables faster
• [17:45] Abid’s thoughts about the next 12 months in the recruitment industry
• [21:46] How to protect yourself while continuing to grow your business
• [24:00] These are the characteristics that Abid looks for when hiring recruiters?
• [27:00] What is a Risk Matrix and how does it come to play in your business?
• [31:50] Abid’s plans for the US recruitment market
• [33:15] Why are there so many small recruitment businesses that don’t scale?
• [38:50] Understanding the process of scaling-up with Abid’s help
• [43:20] Why your business isn’t attractive to buyers – even if your billings are good
• [47:07] Abid shares some of Recruitment Entrepreneur’s success stories
• [50:55] How to allocate time to work on your business to scale rather than working in your business to earn an income

What Are the Three Hot Topics on the Minds of CEOs Right Now?

Abid states that currently, the thoughts of founders and CEOs centre around the current state of the market. He then breaks this down further, referring to what this entails. The first point to consider when you take a look at the entire market is how to build cultures in businesses where there is a flexible environment. Another point is how do you attract the right people in the market that is so heated when it comes to salaries. The third point of interest is, how do you create more sticky situations with your clients?

He says that in these cycles, it is evident that flexibility in the workplace is here to stay and what is becoming vital now is how you manage this flexibility. For example, if your teams work mostly remotely but do spend some time at the office, you get teams to come in at the same time. This still allows for some collaboration on the sales floor.

The Risk Matrix - What Is This and What Does It Mean To Your Recruitment Business?

What are the characteristics that Abid looks for in candidates when recruiting internally?

“For me, slightly out of the norm is good. Slightly unhinged is good…Slightly unhinged in the sense that you really, really know what you want because people who are passionate about something, they are slightly different,” Abid states before explaining what the Risk Matrix is that he is looking for in candidates.

The Risk Matrix is the built-in barrier that we all have that determines our decisions regardless of whether we purchase something or make a phone call. While he sees the perfect candidate to have a bit of an unusual side, the Risk Matrix must still be controlled, making them prepared to go to the edge of their experiences, constantly expanding on what they are capable of and getting comfortable with.

Why Are There So Many Small Recruitment Businesses That Don’t Scale?

The recruitment industry has an abundance of small recruitment businesses and there are many reasons why the majority of them don’t scale. According to Abid, creating a successful business and an exit-able business are two different things. You need to know how to exit and plan for that in advance. It is also important to understand that many of the solo recruiters or boutique firms don’t want to scale as they’re only interested in a lifestyle business. That’s perfectly fine, so long as the business is providing what they want, and that they’re not letting fear hold them back from scaling.

Abid further emphasizes that it is important to distinguish between generating an income from recruitment and building a recruitment business that you can exit from at a later stage. The latter is what Recruitment Entrepreneur helps their clients to achieve.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Abid Hamid Bio and Contact Info

Abid is trained as a lawyer, worked in corporate banking, and has been in the recruitment sector for the last 20 years mainly in management and leadership roles. He had worked globally within the recruitment sector and is a highly experienced business leader with a wealth of experience in various industry sectors and difficult geographies around the world. Abid had held various board positions from start-up to FTSE 250 Listed company and is currently Chairman and NED for 19 companies.

• Abid on LinkedIn
• Recruitment Entrepreneur website link
• Recruitment Entrepreneur on LinkedIn
• Recruitment Entrepreneur on Facebook
• Recruitment Entrepreneur on Instagram
• Recruitment Entrepreneur on Twitter @RecEntrepreneur

People and Resources Mentioned

• Armed Forces Covenant website link
• Doug Bugie on LinkedIn
• James Caan on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR #48 Recruitment Entrepreneur: How to Start-Up and Scale an Exitable Recruitment Business

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Have you ever dreamed of starting and scaling up a recruitment business to the point that you could achieve a successful exit? If so, you’re going to love my interview with James Caan, who joins us for his second time on the show.

In this episode, James walks us through how to successfully launch, scale, and exit your business. His insights are backed up by his track record as the founder of Recruitment Entrepreneur, the world’s leading private equity firm specializing in recruitment start-ups and scale-ups. RE has been successfully operating in 60+ countries and has currently invested in 45 recruitment businesses. You will hear a case study of how one of Recruitment Entrepreneur’s partners was able to launched, scale, and sell their business for $12m in just five years!

James is an investor, a serial entrepreneur, and a former panellist on the hit TV series Dragon’s Den. He founded two recruitment companies with combined revenue of £1B.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:41] James shares his perspective on the recruitment market of 2022 compared to 2021.
• [5:08] How Recruitment Entrepreneur helps recruiters build scalable businesses.
• [10:05] From $220k to $2M USD in billings in five years - James shared a Recruitment Entrepreneur case study.
• [22:08] Why is James now expanding Recruitment Entrepreneur to the US?
• [27:36] What is meant by smart capital and how it impacts the recruitment industry.
• [29:16] Expanding beyond the US - why Recruitment Entrepreneur is going global and why it makes sense.
• [35:35] James’ mindset on creating value for their clients. Also, hear James reveal their ‘secret sauce’ for their success.
• [40:55] How James’ team consistently helps enhance the value of businesses prior to exit events.
• [42:46] What buyers are looking for in a recruitment business that they may want to acquire.
• [47:45] How Recruitment Entrepreneur supports businesses in their portfolio to attract good talent.
• [54:44] How training and development can easily assimilate new joiners to your business’ work culture.

Launching, Scaling and Selling a Recruitment Business for $12M in Only Five Years

Since its founding in 2014, Recruitment Entrepreneur’s goal is to help founders and owners of recruitment businesses to globally, launch, scale, and exit their recruitment businesses. James shared a superb case study on how they worked side by side with James Absalom, CEO of Walter James recruitment. Below is the chronology of his success:

• James launched his business with Recruitment Entrepreneur
• In year one, he earned $350k compared to previous years of earning around $220k in average.
• By year five, he had 15 consultants with annual revenue of $5m and $2m in profit.
• Recently acquired by ZRG Partners for $12m

You will hear James walk you through the process - what do you need to start? What is the thought process in deciding when to scale? How do you grow the billing? How do you attract talent? These are a few of the golden nuggets that you will hear in this episode. If you are strategizing on launching, scaling and exiting your recruitment business, you will enjoy our interview.

How to Create and Enhance Your Recruitment Business’ Value

James’ recruitment and entrepreneurial experience bring invaluable insights when it comes to enhancing businesses under their portfolio. You will hear James reveal specific key pointers for success. How do they create value and further enhance recruitment businesses to set it up in a profitable exit? “The single factor to success and scale is having the ability to attract and keep people,” James stated. He further elaborates on specific focus areas that founders would need to work on to make their business scalable and successful.

James added, “First thing is, we don’t back markets, we don’t back sectors, we don’t back products. We back people, and that has been the mantra of my entire working life and it has never failed me yet.”

Must Haves to Make Your Business Scalable and Exit-Able

If you plan to scale and exit your recruitment business, you will hear the following key takeaways from our discussion:

• The importance of having a stable workforce by attracting and retaining the right people.
• Establishing a culture of coaching, learning, and development.
• Having a clear strategy for developing your brand.
• Having an international mindset.

You will find James’ take on the above elements definitely insightful.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

James Caan Bio and Contact Info

James founded private equity firm Hamilton Bradshaw in 2004 and joined the panel of heavyweight investors for BBC’s Dragons' Den in 2007. His main focus is on charity work, current investments, growing Hamilton Bradshaw and mentoring entrepreneurs to help ensure their success.

With a passion for building businesses and backing talented people, he has been building and selling businesses since 1985 and thinks it is important to invest in people rather than products or businesses. James is a great believer that it is people who create a successful business through their passion and conviction, with a firm belief that “It’s your attitude, not your aptitude that determines your altitude”.

• James’ website link (You may find and download his audiobook via this link)
• James on LinkedIn
• James on Twitter @jamescaan
• James on Facebook
• James on Instagram
• Hamilton Bradshaw Group website link
• Recruitment Entrepreneur website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Abid Hamid on LinkedIn
• Doug Bugie on LinkedIn
• Walter James website link
• ZRG Partners website link

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#81 James Caan on the 10 Characteristics of Highly Successful Recruitment Entrepreneurs * TRR#69 Recruitment Legends: Leadership and Life Lessons From 40 Years in the Global Recruiting Industry, with Doug Bugie * TRR#48 Recruitment Entrepreneur: How to Start-Up and Scale an “Exit-able” Recruitment Business, with Abid Hamid

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I am always fascinated by hearing how recruitment business owners navigate their journeys through difficulties to grow their practices. That’s why I am very much delighted to share this episode with you on how my special guest, Doug Baird focused on four strategic pillars to successfully grow his small contract recruitment firm into a leading consultancy group today.

Doug is the CEO at New Street Consulting Group (NSCG), a people advisory firm that helps their clients find, assess, build and accelerate teams and leaders who are as good in practice as they are on paper. NSC has been ranked as one of the best small companies in the UK, previously ranked in the Sunday Times’ Fast Track 100, and Doug himself has been a finalist in the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur Award.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [2:40] How Doug started his recruitment firm leading up to the foundation of New Street Consultancy Group.
• [9:30] NSC’s approach to offering client solutions via meaningful strategic conversations.
• [13:50] Growing through acquisitions - Doug shares his thoughts.
• [18:54] Doug’s Four Strategic Pillars for growing his recruitment business.
• [24:10] How to use the sense of dissatisfaction to achieve more in your career.
• [29:54] Discussion on some of the biggest challenges that Doug had to navigate through.
• [32:26] Sharing best practices to find the right people for your recruitment business.
• [34:35] What is governance and what does it mean for your organization?
• [37:11] How to balance your team’s structure when bringing in talent.
• [44:12] Utilizing technology as you scale your business.
• [49:43] Looking back at his journey, what are the things that Doug would have done differently?

The Four Pillars of Success in Growing Your Recruitment Business

Doug shared his story beginning in 2003 when he started Interim Partners. They started off as an interim management provider and contracting recruitment business. In this interview, you will hear how he was able to lead his company to growth which ultimately led him to establish a professional services consulting firm, the NSC Group.

I asked for his critical success factors and you will certainly enjoy how he laid the foundation of his business growth on four pillars: talent, structure, governance, and technology. You will also hear us discuss each of these and I am confident that you will be able to pick up several golden nuggets of wisdom to use in your own journey of scaling your business.

Using the Sense of Dissatisfaction to Your Advantage

Tony Robbins once said that being dissatisfied is one of the best ways to achieve more and stay motivated. This is definitely the same with Doug. He believes that having a sense of dissatisfaction and having the courage to walk away from what you are famous for can work to your advantage. He revealed how this mindset gave him a clear vision of his end goal. Related to this idea, you will hear from this interview why growing your business via acquisition makes sense in certain situations.

Strengthening the Pillar of Technology to Scale Your Business

We also covered utilizing technology to effectively manage your recruitment business. Doug shared how they had to let go of some legacy systems they were using and how they adapted by using contemporary technology. We were very specific with some tools such as SalesForce, Bullhorn, Marketo, Cascade for HR, and others. An interesting thing that Doug shared is how they are using Salesforce and Bullhorn at the same time despite the potential overlap. You may be able to relate with some of the technologies mentioned.

What Would Have Doug Done Differently?

What I consider to be the best part of my conversation with Doug in this episode is when he responded to the question of what he would have done differently. “I would probably have tried to have held onto people, some of them that I’ve had at the very beginning,” is how Doug puts it. When you listen to this part, you will hear Doug’s sincerity as he further elaborates on what he meant.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Doug Baird Bio and Contact Info

Doug has 25 plus years in recruitment and professional services where he created and managed companies operating within Interim Management, Executive Search and Leadership Consulting. Outside of work, his four children keep him busy. With his family, Doug loves traveling, skiing and cinema. He enjoys rugby, plays golf badly and loves learning new things - fortunate to be heading to Harvard in May.

• Doug on LinkedIn
• Doug on Twitter @Doug_NSCG
• New Street Consulting (NSC) Group website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Katie Howard on LinkedIn
• James Caan on LinkedIn
• Greg Savage on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#15 How Katie Howard Cross Empowers Women in Recruitment to Excel * TRR#81 James Caan on the 10 Characteristics of Highly Successful Recruitment Entrepreneurs * TRR#64 The Recruiter Roadmap to Recovery: How to Thrive in a Post-Pandemic World, with Greg Savage

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“Leaving people in the situation where all their major needs are met. For us, that is what a truly employee-centric model is. It is putting our people’s needs first so that they are at their best, and in turn they will make sure that the service they are providing to our clients and candidates is also at its best.” This is how my special guest, Saira Demmer, explains their approach to creating a culture of high performance. If you are looking for strategies to increase your employee engagement and individual performance, I am sure you will enjoy this episode!

Saira is the CEO of SF Recruitment Group, a specialist recruitment firm located in the Midlands. Since 1998, SF Group has placed over 40,000 people and they’ve been recognized as one of the Top 20 companies to work for in the UK. Saira is passionate about employee engagement and since joining SF has introduced a new people-centric business model which has delivered an increase of over 60% in individual employee performance and reward.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:45] From corporate to a big investment firm to recruiting - Saira shared how she fell in love with the recruitment industry.
• [10:54] How employee engagement is promoted at SF Group.
• [19:02] “Work where and when you want” - learn what this means in SF’s way of working.
• [26:10] Is it possible to enable people to measure and track performance without imposing KPIs?
• [30:23] The SF Experience and how it creates an environment where people can be successful.
• [34:08] Promoting intellectual freedom with a culture of coaching and guidance.
• [37:37] SF’s efforts in developing seniority and compensation to enhance performance.
• [40:42] How SF celebrates and shares success stories within the business.
• [46:53] Saira shares their plans for SF's expansion.

How to Create an Environment of High Performance Recruiters

SF Recruitment was listed 18th in the UK's 'Top 100 Small Companies to Work For', securing a place in the Top 20 for the second year. Their commitment to employee engagement has not only garnered them local and national recognition, but it is reflected in their performance as well. After joining SF, Saira introduced a people-centric business model that doubled productivity. Saira’s insightful take on KPIs may nudge you to re-think your strategy in terms of performance management and employee engagement. Here are some key pointers that Saira shared which I encourage you to focus on in this episode:

• The work “where and when you want to” approach.
• Promoting intellectual freedom among recruiters in a coaching environment.
• Backing up performance with an Employee Ownership Scheme

The SF Recruitment Experience

To show the level of commitment they have for their employee experience, Saira came up with a business model called the SF Experience. This is an approach wherein they are able to build a high-performing culture through autonomy and flexibility. Benchmarking of packages and earnings is regularly done. In fact, one notable achievement by Saira is achieving a 0% gender pay gap at SF three years after reporting a 23% gap in 2018! This combination of benefits indeed results in better profitability and employee retention. Listen to this episode to hear the specifics directly from Saira.

An Insightful Take on KPIs

I am a firm believer in knowing your numbers. Metrics and key performance indicators (KPIs) are incredibly valuable in order to manage and optimize your performance. Interestingly, Saira mentioned that in SF, they do not impose KPIs. I asked Saira to what extent they enable people to measure their milestones resulting in placements and billings? Be sure to listen to this interview to discover her answer.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Saira Demmer Bio and Contact Info

Saira is CEO at SF Group, a specialist recruitment firm headquartered in the Midlands. Saira joined in 2018 having previously been UK CEO and CFO at Ignata where she played a key role in building the group to over £40m of turnover today. Her knowledge of recruitment and talent solutions was honed during six years spent in Deloitte’s M&A strategy team, where she was involved in a number of high-profile deals in the recruitment sector.

Outside of the boardroom, Saira is also a dedicated adventurer, she previously climbed half of Mount Everest and loves to travel the world to pursue her love of open-water diving.

• Saira on LinkedIn
• SF Recruitment website link
• SF Recruitment on Facebook
• SF Recruitment on Twitter @sfrecruiters
• SF Recruitment on YouTube

People and Resources Mentioned

• James Caan on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR#81 James Caan on the 10 Characteristics of Highly Successful Recruitment Entrepreneurs

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Best results come from the best talents, and the best talents can be found in the best places to work. How do you make your recruitment company a top place to work? My guest, David Cathey, reveals their standards and practices that made his firm, Unity Search Group, amongst the Dallas Business Journal’s Best Places to Work for three years running.

David is a Partner at Unity Search. He oversees Unity's finance, accounting and tax consulting/contract, Unity's IT division and Unity's practice development, including training and development of our core team members, along with client development, relationship management and candidate recruiting.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:24] How David and I got acquainted via podcast.
• [03:45] Discussion on training and why it is important to approach different learning modalities.
• [08:50] David reveals Unity Search’s ‘train-the-trainer’ approach and how it builds a supportive environment for newly hired recruiters.
• [14:30] The advantages of growing your own talent versus hiring someone with years of experience.
• [19:30] Hear best practices when hiring rookie recruiters.
• [24:22] Know more about Unity KPIs, standards, and how they build a culture of accountability.
• [29:33] Great ideas on gamifying your KPIs to drive a self-managing culture.
• [35:06] Distinction between micromanagement and helping your team to be successful.
• [41:30] Are client visits still ‘fashionable’ for recruiters?
• [50:05] The problem with Vendor Management Systems (VMS) - and how to avoid them.
• [53:55] David shares his battle with the ‘impostor syndrome.’
• [1:02:00] What is next with Unity Search?

Continuous Learning and Establishing a Culture of Accountability

In our conversation, you will hear David shared Unity Search’s approach on team development focusing in the following areas:

• The importance of continuous learning and approaching different learning modalities
• Best practices in hiring inexperienced recruiters
• Train-the-trainer approach
• How to get consistent results by establishing a self-managing culture and accountability

Why It’s Time to Start Doing Client Visits Again

Because of the pandemic, most recruiters stopped or drastically reduced the number of in-person client meetings. The advent of technology also made it possible for recruiters to engage via Zoom or MS Teams which brings us to the question: “Are client visits still relevant when it comes to recruitment?”

Dave shared how client visits are one of his team’s KPIs and how meeting clients face-to-face is more relevant than ever, now that pandemic related restrictions are getting more lenient. He shared his philosophy behind it, “You are not going to date someone long term and develop a long-term relationship if you haven’t seen them face-to-face.” David explained that the pandemic really took that in-person element away because everybody was working remotely. He then elaborated, “What ended up happening at least for our business … is your client visits turned to just phone call check-ins.” Now that restrictions have been lifted, David is making sure his team is taking the opportunity to get back out there and get in front of them.

If you are running a local desk, this is something that you may want to look at to further engage with your clients and establish more connections. As Dave shared, “Sometimes meeting them for a cup of coffee, they love that because they are going out of their house.”

Are You Struggling with Impostor Syndrome?

If you are experiencing persistent self-doubt on your skills, talents and accomplishments, you may be suffering from impostor syndrome. This is like an elephant in the room that talented recruiters and recruitment business owners may be hesitant to discuss but it is something that everybody feels every once in a while. David courageously shared his battle with the impostor syndrome and how he overcame it. “I’ve really worked on changing my attitude towards impostor syndrome” David stated. You may be able to relate on how it can hold you back in your career or how it can make it difficult to engage with a client. David realized that it is actually rooted in fear and not getting out of his comfort zone. He then shared how he turned it into a benefit for him and the steps he took to get out of that comfort zone. I hope that you too can appreciate the nuggets of wisdom in this part of the interview.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

David Cathey Bio and Contact Info

David’s experience includes over 15 years of executive recruiting on both a direct hire basis and consulting/contract recruiting basis. Throughout his recruiting career, his primary focus has been in accounting, finance, tax and information technology.

After spending time as a Financial Analyst and Senior Pricing Manager for a large multinational organization, David began his recruiting career with one of the largest, US domestic recruiting firms, working in the Dallas/Fort Worth market for over 7 years. He established himself as a top performer in the organization, earning multiple incentive trips throughout his time as a producer.

At Unity Search, David’s focus remains in development of core information technology, accounting, finance, and tax recruitment and consulting for (and with) our clients. David’s focus on being relationship driven and process oriented allows Unity Search to service our clients at our best.

• David on LinkedIn
• Unity Search website link
• Unity Search on YouTube

People and Resources Mentioned

• Bob Marshall on LinkedIn
• Joe Slenning on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Many recruiters claim to provide excellent customer service. Certainly, nobody sets out with the goal of delivering bad service. But is customer satisfaction built into your recruitment process, and most importantly do you actually measure it?

My podcast guest, Nick Eaves, is the Chief Customer Officer of Stanton House. As his job title suggests, customer experience is something they take very seriously indeed. They’ve made customer satisfaction central to the way they engage with clients and candidates.

Nick believes it’s a key differentiator and one of the secrets to their success.

The results speak for themselves - Stanton House is one of the UK’s fastest-growing recruitment companies. Since launching in 2010, they have scaled to £35m and a team of 80 people with offices in the UK, Singapore, Hong Kong and the US.

Episode Outline and Highlights:

• [06:48] Candidates and clients are both customers
• [09:47] Nick explains their systems and processes to enhance customer experience
• [12:30] Being a hero at Stanton House requires more than being a great biller
• [15:34] Nick shares examples of how they differentiate their brand
• [18:20] What does their customer experience look like?
• [21:20] How to create a narrative with your customers in a customer-centric environment
• [26:50] What training do they provide to ensure that their team delivers excellent value
• [31:50] What motivated Nick to co-found Stanton House in 2010?
• [36:00] The switch from recruiting to starting a recruitment business
• [38:50] What are the success factors driving Stanton House forward?
• [41:40] How and why Stanton House has evolved away from the 360 model
• [46:50] Employing experienced recruiters vs developing professionals with no recruitment experience, which is best?
• [52:10] What characteristics do they seek in their team members?
• [53:50] The Pathway Program - how it promotes diversity internally and for their customers
• [57:55] Stanton House’s international expansion

Candidates and Clients Both Deserve Outstanding Customer Service

“When we started the company, right from the start, the one thing that we were adamant was going to be different about Stanton House was that we are passionate about the customer experience and that was going to be the heart of everything we did. It is part of the DNA and it remained true until today,” Nick expands on how much value their brand attaches to ensuring that both clients and candidates enjoy the level of service they deserve.

He states that the recruitment industry often treats clients very well but not candidates so much. Yet, both are just people and the investment that a candidate has with a recruitment company has a far greater impact on the candidate than on the client.

Therefore, Stanton House has a comprehensive system in place to ensure that they always deliver on customer satisfaction and this is the foundation of their success.

Exploring the Factors that Contributed to Their Success

When Nick and co-founder Neil Wilson founded Stanton House, they didn’t have any clients and could only rely on their networks. They were determined to make their venture a success and create a brand that values customer service.

One challenge was that neither had actively run a recruitment desk for a while. Their solution was to get funding from investors so they could hire excellent people from the beginning.

Nick highlights the following factors as the keys to the success they enjoy:

• The vision and the ambition to scale
• The desire to make a statement to the industry that if you operate with integrity, you can still win commercially.
• The culture, vision and values are the backbone of the business. Therefore, they hire people who share the same values as they do.

Why Experience Isn’t the Most Important Criteria When Recruiting Recruiters

When hiring internally, values fit is essential. It is why Stanton House often employs people without recruitment experience and then provides excellent training to give them the skills to be successful in the industry.

Nick states that one of the most important things they are looking for in candidates for internal employment is the ability to overcome adversity. They prefer candidates who had to face severe challenges in their past and managed to overcome these challenges. They’re looking for individuals who will care about the customer experience and are not only concerned with making money.

Work ethic and shared values are what bind their team and not age, gender, background or experience. This is how they manage to remain a team that achieves greatness.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Nick Eaves Bio and Contact Info

Nick Co-Founded Stanton House back in 2010 and has played his part in building the Business to the 80+ people it is today. Stanton House operates in the UK, Asia and the US in a range of professional service verticals and the vision for the Business is to Achieve Outstanding Performance through exceptional customer experiences.

This balance of ambitious business success, a focus on the Customer and a true commitment to strong values go to the heart of Stanton House. As Chief Customer Officer, Nick is the custodian of measuring and enhancing that customer offering.

• Nick on LinkedIn
• Stanton House website link
• Acuity Partners website link
• Just Giving website link
• Stanton House on Instagram
• Stanton House on Twitter

People and Resources Mentioned

• Mark Farris on LinkedIn
• Katrina Collier on LinkedIn
• Robot-Proof Recruiter: A survival guide for recruitment and sourcing professionals by Katrina Collier
• Steve Beckitt on LinkedIn
• Sourcebreaker website link
• Romney Rawes Recruitment Growth Accelerator Course
• SenseHQ
• Neil Wilson on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR #98 How to Partner Successfully with Human Resources, Talent Acquisition and Hiring Managers, with Katrina Collier

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How resilient is your recruitment business? What will you do the next time there’s a financial crisis, like we experienced in 2020?

In this interview, my guest Lauren Stiebing describes the experience of her pipeline evaporating in March 2020. She goes on to reveal how she used that setback as an opportunity to create new service offerings that complimented her core business. Best of all, the new Mentoring program she developed aligned with her passion for and commitment to championing gender diversity.

Could you recession-proof your recruitment business by creating multiple revenue streams? Listen-in to Lauren describing her process for researching the market, creating a “minimum viable product” and sales strategy leading to a very successful launch. She also shares how she uses “video sales letters” as part of her fresh and innovative approach towards marketing.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:50] Behind the scenes of a podcast and overcoming nerves.
• [03:50] What happened at LS International in the last two years?
• [06:45] Don’t panic! Lauren’s key lessons learned during this period.
• [11:03] Had no searches to work on, so she used the downtime to develop a new service offering
• [12:22] How the need for female talent in leadership roles led to a new venture
• [16:04] Find out how creating an MVP (Minimum Viable Product) can prevent paralysis by analysis to stop you from proceeding on a new venture
• [20:03] Lauren shares why they are not planning to grow the mentoring business too quickly
• [22:50] There is value in taking a step back from your network and seeing with whom you can partner for future ventures
• [24:30] What did the marketing process look like and how did Lauren include selling through teaching?
• [25:57] What is a “video sales letter” and why should you create one?
• [31:33] What is the value of a landing page?
• [36:50] Change required that Lauren steps out of her comfort zone, what did she learn from this?
• [40:00] How to use podcasts to your advantage to build trust with your audience
• [42:45] Can you hire less experienced recruiters and develop them successfully?

Female Mentorship - Answering a Need In the Market

When the pandemic hit in March 2020, Lauren suddenly had no searches to work on. She was coming off a record year and had money in the bank, so at first she didn’t panic. But as the months went by without any signs of improvement, she realized she had to try something new.

“Always analyzing the market, analyzing what is happening and when you see a gap or a need, to really create a minimal viable product and see how the client reacts,” is how Lauren describes her process for developing a new service offering.

What Lauren realized is that there was a need for mentorships for female executives. Her clients often struggled to recruit female talent into leadership roles. So rather than recruiting outside talent, companies should invest to develop and advance their own female employees so they could promote them internally.

This is how LS Elevate, Lauren’s mentorship program came into existence. Her initial goal was to sell 10 mentorship programs in the first year. However, the sales and marketing campaign exceeded her expectations and she ended up selling 27 - more than double her original target. Now, in the second year of the program, she is ready to expand but is cautious about growing too quickly. She would rather enjoy sustainable, long-term growth instead of over-extend herself. Especially since her search business has picked up again.

Podcasts Are The Perfect Way to Present Yourself As An Authority

Lauren has published roughly 60 podcasts and states that these podcasts play a vital role to earn the trust of potential clients and candidates. When she already has a rapport with these people when they meet for the first time, it makes discussions and negotiations so much easier.

Lauren is also committed to constantly trying out new and different marketing ideas to see what delivers the best results. One of her most effective marketing strategies are “video sales letters.” In this interview, she shares all you need to know to create your first video sales letter.

Plans for Growth and Hiring for Attitude Over Experience

Lauren is growing her team once again and I asked what she looks for in a potential hire. She believes that “learning, agility, and curiosity are what is going to make someone successful.” comes Lauren’s words infused by her own experiences and the many mistakes she made as a young recruiter. Lauren is highly committed to the learning and development of her team and wishes for them to step outside of their comfort zones and to explore wider horizons on the constant journey of self-improvement.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Lauren Stiebing Bio and Contact Info

Lauren is a small-town girl with big dreams. She has a degree in International Studies from Louisiana State University and Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam. Her passion for head-hunting, top-notch networking abilities and being a skilled judge of people made her an experienced head-hunter. She is the founder of LS International, persevering, hard-working, resilient and has high personal standards.

She is dedicated to the success of every client and candidate with a burning ambition to transform executive search. Lauren specializes in finding the best people for Sales, Marketing, and General Management positions in the consumer goods industry across the USA, Europe, Middle East and Asia. Her relationships with candidates and clients give her a broad and deep knowledge of markets and people. Both clients and candidates acknowledge that they love working with her because of her unique ability to craft solutions that balance client needs with candidate interests. Extensive international travel allows Lauren to pursue her hobbies of collecting currency and attending electronic music events.

• Lauren on LinkedIn
• LS International on Twitter
• LS International website link
• LS International Podcast

People and Resources Mentioned

• Larry Weinberg
• LS International Blog Article - How to Increase Female Promotability by 66%
• LS International Careers

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR 10 How to Build Your Personal Brand As A Recruiter

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Recruiters everywhere are experiencing a surge in demand for quality candidates combined with an increasing quest for diversity and inclusion. Traditional approaches and outdated processes are proving inadequate to meet these challenges. Consequently, many recruitment firms are failing to capitalize on the huge potential for growth.

My next guest, Natasha Makhijani, has managed to transform these challenges into an opportunity to revolutionize the recruitment industry. In this episode, Natasha shares how her team has developed their own mobile apps to increase candidate attraction, engagement and diversity. She also reveals how they ensure much greater diversity and how they’re pioneering the use of Amazon’s Alexa to stay at the cutting edge of executive search.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [0:30] Why I invited Natasha back for the second time on the show
• [03:38] Inclusion in the Queen’s Platinum Jubilee - how did Oliver Sanderson earn this prestigious recognition?
• [09:28] How technology helped the brand to grow despite the pandemic
• [16:55] How Natasha creates employee engagement and provides practical and emotional support while working remotely
• [22:49] The benefit of having a dedicated research / market mapping team
• [25:46] What are the three types of recruiters the brand employs?
• [30:00} Natasha’s role as Co-Chair of the HR Section Group at APSCo
• [31:20] A revolutionary approach to diversity and inclusion
• [35:00] The charity focused on helping to uplift emerging talent and overcome the challenges faced by marginalized professionals
• [39:46] How the Snapp CV app brings technology and search together to increase talent engagement in a candidate-driven market
• [49:40] Using effective video content to grab the attention of high-level professionals and get them into your recruitment process
• [51:30] New ventures - Natasha’s success in finding investors for a radical solution taking the recruitment industry into a new direction.

Being a Part of The Queen’s Platinum Jubilee

Across the UK, plans are put into place to celebrate the Queen’s Platinum Jubilee. 2022 marks the 70th year since her ascension.

For the Oliver Sanderson team, this is an even more thrilling event as the recruitment business has been chosen as one of 70 companies across the UK that represents the values of the British Monarchy and what they stand for.

The brand is the only recruitment business that has received this honor and the team’s advances in the field of technology and taking the recruitment industry to a more digital world is what they are being recognized for.

“Alexa: Find Me a Job”

When it comes to advances in technology, the team at Oliver Sanderson is at the forefront of development. Their Oliver Sanderson OS Executive App – brings digital innovation to the executive search process.

Natasha explains, “when we go out and map the candidates, once we’ve got a long list of candidates whom we think are of interest. At that point, you can either just reach out to them or you can send them a link to an app which allows them to watch a little video.” If they like what they see, they can proceed from there onwards but you already got them to the point to make a small commitment. The app is proving to be a highly effective solution to combat the challenges of a candidate-driven market.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Natasha Makhijani Bio and Contact Info

Degree Qualified from City University and a Masters in HR from the USA. Natasha began her professional career with Hays Logistics on their graduate scheme. She set up the Victoria office with her manager, and within two years, the Victoria office and the staff of eight were the top-performing office in the country. She was offered the opportunity to work with Michael Page and Robert Walters. She started with Michael Page Human Resources, and she became their top biller within HR during her first year. She helped set up their St Albans office and then moved to London to set up permanent recruitment for the Public Sector. Later, Natasha was promoted to Managing Consultant and contributed to the growth of the Public sector office. She considers herself lucky to have had a revelation to an entrepreneurial community from an early age, and she believes this helped her to shape into somebody who is vibrant and enthusiastic and with a keen interest and passion for business.

Oliver Sanderson is a dynamic brand in Executive Search & Selection that looks after Perm and Interim assignments to FTSE 100 & 250 clients. They offer retained, exclusive and contingent end-to-end recruitment in a variety of disciplines and serve major UK & Global sectors. They also provide cutting-edge service solutions to customers, ensuring the needs are met in tune with the changing marketplace. As the market changes, so do the needs of candidates and clients, and the expert team at Oliver Sanderson ensures there are strategies created around new topics matters, IR35 and BAME, to name a few, to satisfy client and candidate needs.

Oliver Sanderson offers access to new products such as their mobile job app from candidate attraction, to Drag & Drop to 1st stage video interviewing platform through their sister company Snapp CV Group PLC. Devising an alternative method of recruitment through their technology strategy has helped to move forward in the recruitment space, and they are excited about developing the digital side to recruitment through the use of Artificial Intelligence with new products.

• Natasha on LinkedIn
• Oliver Sanderson Group PLC website link
• Oliver Sanderson Group PLC on LinkedIn
• Oliver Sanderson Group PLC on Instagram
• Oliver Sanderson Group PLC on Twitter @OliverSanders9
• Oliver Sanderson Group PLC on Facebook
• Snapp CV website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• APSCO website link
• Ann Swain on LinkedIn
• Diversely website link
• Helen McGuire on LinkedIn
• Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini
• Gary Vaynerchuk

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR 30 How to Open Doors and Build Relationships at C-Level
• TRR 90 How to Build a World-Class Talent Development Program
• TRR 57 Diversity as a Differentiator How Recruiters Can Attract 70% More Diverse Talent

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Would you like to generate an average revenue increase of 30% per year? In this interview, Simon La Fosse shares how La Fosse Associates has achieved this every year for the past 15 years.

When Simon founded La Fosse Associates, his focus was on creating a values-led company and treating people well – including team members and customers. He firmly believes that the core values of Caring, Ambition and Humility have been a huge factor in company’s sustained success as they scaled to a team of 250 people.

Simon also expands on why La Fosse Associates give share options to everyone in the business and 40% of the company is owned by the employees. He explains how it has benefitted them not only with staff retention but has also created a culture where everyone is extremely motivated to contribute to the company’s consistent growth. Their commitment to looking after the people on their team has earned the brand several awards.

Another more recent but highly exciting addition to Simon’s portfolio is Futureproof. This venture is completely revolutionary and has the potential to set the recruitment industry off in a new direction. Through innovative thinking, Futureproof is a solution that overcomes the demand for more diversity and also addresses the severe talent shortage in technology.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [3:00] How does La Fosse retain their culture over multiple offices for so long?
• [8:35] Designing your company culture
• [10:50] Find out how care, ambition and humility are pillars in their brand
• [13:20} What does care look like in the recruitment industry?
• [18:56] How to use different ways to celebrate success
• [25:02] Can you measure a culture fit during interviews?
• [31:50] Simon shares details about their share options and how it impacts their success
• [39:42] What are the secrets behind the commercial success La Fosse enjoys
• [46:50] Can you effectively measure the office vibe and what to do with the results?
• [49:29] What are the KPIs the management team focuses on?
• [53:30] Futureproof - a radical evolution in recruitment

Why Do Values Play Such A Vital Role In La Fosse?

“The better I treated people, the more successful I was,” this is the observation Simon made as he looked back on 15 years in the recruitment industry before he founded La Fosse Associates. Back then the recruitment industry was very competitive and income-driven, making his observation quite profound for the time. However, it was this wisdom that he took with him as he felt that it was something that would give his brand a key strategic advantage.

Today, the brand still operates on principles that celebrate care, ambition and humility as determining factors to their success. It is by upholding these principles and giving it space in everything they do that the brand manages to sustain its value-driven culture for more than a decade. Through sustaining this brand culture, it has earned several awards but even more importantly, La Fosse has been able to show 30% growth year on year, for the past 15 years.

At La Fosse Associates, 40% of the Company is Owned by the Staff – Why Is the Share Option Scheme Open to All Employees?

The first characteristic that differentiates the way that La Fosse gives share options is the fact that the percentage of the business that is reserved for share options is much larger than usual. I’m not aware of any other recruitment company that is 40% owned by the employees. The second is that they don’t only offer share options to the senior management team and the highest billers. Every employee has access to this opportunity.

“I started the business and I took the risk but you know I am one person amongst 250 and I don’t do much billing anymore. So, you can see where the value is being created and it is not me. So I think to say 60% seems really fair to leave me with,” Simon expands on how they came to the point of offering as much as 40% of the business to share options rather than the conventional 5-10%.

The longer you are part of the team and the more you progress in the level of role you fulfill, the larger your share option grows, but essentially everyone, even those who just started as fresh graduates, has access to this opportunity.

Futureproof - Helping to Address Diversity and Talent Shortages in the Industry

As the recruitment industry can be very stagnant, the foundation of Futureproof came as a breath of fresh air. Simon admits that it has been an expensive venture, but it represents a major transition in the recruitment industry. It allows the team to select the best of the pickings of graduates before putting them through relevant training and placing them in the workplace for two years. The academy enables them to present their clients with a diverse group of junior candidates. As students don’t have to pay for this training, it allows access to training on the basis of how good you are rather than whether you can afford to pay the fees. The result is fairness and diversity when it comes to the selection of suitable candidates they can present.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Simon La Fosse Bio and Contact Info

Simon is the founder and now Chair of the technology recruitment business La Fosse Associates. He also more recently founded a rapidly growing subsidiary business called Futureproof; a diverse and free-to-learn tech academy.

Everyone’s a shareholder in the group and the mission is to continue to rapidly grow a purpose-driven business with the hope of positively impacting the whole recruitment industry. La Fosse Associates has won a few awards for growth and the way they treat people, which they keep at the heart of their ethos as they continue to expand.

La Fosse Associates is 15 years old, over 250 strong, has a number of UK offices, and established operations in Los Angeles and New York

• Simon La Fosse on LinkedIn
• La Fosse Associates website link
• Futureproof website link
• La Fosse Associates on Instagram
• La Fosse Associates on Facebook
• La Fosse Associates on Twitter
• i-intro on Youtube

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Are you ready to progress from contingency to retained recruitment services but aren’t sure how to pitch it? It is often a lack of confidence in what truly differentiates your brand – and the value you can deliver – that keeps recruitment business owners trapped in a position of earning less than they deserve.

As the COO of i-intro, James O’Brien has helped hundreds of recruiters transition to a retained recruitment model. He’s also a champion and advocate for recruiters, a true thought leader who is committed to sharing knowledge and insight to benefit the recruitment industry. In this podcast, he shares many helpful tips and offers valuable guidance to make the shift from contingency to retained services easy. He provides ways to overcome a lack of confidence and how to distinguish yourself by effectively differentiating your service.

James has more than 30 years of experience in the recruitment industry and understands all the pain points of recruiters and he has the solutions to help them overcome this with outstanding success.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:15] The obstacles to generating video content - and how to overcome them
• [07:02] Why and how to create authentic videos that build your personal brand
• [10:30] What equipment do you need to create valuable video content? The answer might surprise you!
• [13:55] James’ career transition from running a large executive recruitment firm to jumping into the world of “rec tech” with i-intro
• [19:13] Why retained recruitment isn’t just for executive search assignments
• [21:00] How can you earn a better return on your efforts and triple your income?
• [24:10] How to present yourself with confidence as someone adding value to your clients
• [32:20] Teaming up with the right people to take your business to the next level
• [35:20] How to pitch the added value that your service delivers in the form of ROI
• [37:23] What are the “three promises” James makes to clients that enable him (and i-intro users) to get paid up-front payment?
• [40:00] How James uses a “bad hire calculator” to show clients the true cost of staff turnover
• [42:35] Clients only see recruiters when they have a problem - use it to your advantage
• [44:00] Exploring the different solutions that you can present to your clients
• [45:30] Steps on how to distinguish your brand by differentiating your service

Escaping The Grip of Limiting Beliefs

Creating videos or podcasts is one of the most powerful tools to establish yourself as an authoritative figure inside your niche market. Yet, many professionals still shy away from capturing themselves on video or audio because they can only see and hear their shortcomings. They convince themselves that the value of their message is overshadowed by these imperfections that are so prominent in their eyes.

James disagrees: “If you are saying something that is going to be useful to somebody, then people do want to hear.” He believes that people “appreciate the realness of who you are,” and will overlook a less-than studio quality production. This belief that you are not capable of doing it is merely self-limiting, holding you back from achieving the success you deserve.

How To Tripple Your Income

“I am not here saying that retained recruitment is the only way to deliver service. But I am someone who says that retained recruitment is not just the executive search assignments,” James states his belief that this is the way to increase your revenue without increasing your efforts.

He explains that by opting for retained recruitment, you can increase your conversion rate from 20% which is the norm for contingency recruitment, to 60% or more. It means that you can triple your income without working harder. You will also be able to work smarter with your clients and candidates and have more fun doing so. The secret is not in working harder but in being able to convince a client of your value of your service.

How to Convince Clients to Appreciate You

“There is a perception of what a recruiter is and what they do that the market has and they have that for a very good reason…but if you hold yourself and have your self-worth and believe that you are worth it, then you should have the confidence to tell your clients what you do,” James states.

He says that you should refrain from positioning yourself as a recruiter for you deliver much more than merely sourcing a few CVs. You should be able to differentiate yourself from the rest by being able to express to your clients what you truly offer them and how hiring you will benefit them. He explains some of the practical steps that will help you to do this with great success.

Are you ready to make the transition from offering a contingency service to the position where you can rather enjoy a fair exchange for your expertise through a retained recruitment model?

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

James O’Brien Bio and Contact Info

James O-Brien has been the COO of i-intro for the past six years and during this time he grasped an in-depth understanding of the challenges that recruiters face when they transition to retained recruitment services. During his career, James trained hundreds of recruitment firms and helped them to fully understand and be able to utilize the i-intro platform. He was an early adopter of the i-intro platform and process while he was still running EO Executives, an international interim management and executive search firm. James’s career in recruitment dates back to the 1980s. During most of the past 30 years in the field, he has been involved in coaching and training recruiters as well as being the coalface of the industry.

• James O’Brien on LinkedIn
• i-intro website link
• i-intro on Instagram
• i-intro on Youtube

Connect with Mark Whitby * Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call * Mark on LinkedIn * Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby * Mark on Facebook * Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR #43 How to Transition from Contingency CV Supplier to Consultive Retained Recruiter, with Plamen Ivanoff

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Want to grow your recruitment business more rapidly? In today’s podcast, you’ll hear the remarkable story of how Ben Broughton managed to grow his start-up, Primis, to 21 staff members and revenue of £1.1 million in just five months. Primis specialises in recruitment in the field of technology and serves the UK and US market with a vision to expand into Europe soon.

Ben started his career in recruitment in 2000 at SThree where he ran and set up offices across several locations before moving onto Premier Group in 2006. Here he spent 14 years as managing director, taking the company from 14 people to 110 and growing the revenue to £30 million and £10 million in Net Fee Income.

While the core focus of Primis is the field of technology, the company and its success are centred around diversity and inclusion, giving everyone access to shares and putting people first.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [2:23] How to build a start-up to 21 staff in only five months earning £1.1 million NFI
• [3:50] Aiming for 50 heads and £3.5 million NFI by year-end
• [4:18] Touching on diversity and how it fits into Ben’s idea of success
• [6:41] Ben’s vision to become the fastest-growing tech recruitment company in the UK in three years
• [7:33] Access to shares - giving everyone a piece of the pie
• [8:43] What are the success factors resulting in this exponential growth?
• [10:25] Ben’s take on future-proofing the business
• [11:00] Taking diversity and inclusion to a new level
• [13:46] Offering clients multiple solutions depending on their needs
• [17:49] Looking at such rapid scalability from a practical perspective
• [22:00] Partnering with recruitment clients
• [23:20] Having a personal relationship with your leaders is vital
• [25:16] Sharing insights into breaking into the US market
• [28:16] Employee Management Incentive Scheme (EMI) provides staff with global ownership
• [32:55] The big lessons learned with scaling a business
• [36:10] Balancing work and life as a start-up owner?
• [39:50] Don’t micromanage - let people do what they do best
• [46:30] People do business with people - it is vital to nurture client relationships
• [49:00] The biggest challenge Ben had to navigate
• [53:50] Find out what is next for Primis

Making The Most of Shareholding

“Give everybody access to shares in the business. I think for me personally, I currently have 80% of the organisation but if I end up with 60% and the team has the other 40 but we’re worth four times as much, then that is just a no brainer for me,” Ben explains that they want everyone to feel like they have a piece of the pie, to promote even greater success for all. One of the reasons why Ben left the Premier group was because he didn’t have enough control to make the changes he desired. Thus, shareholding is something that is not only important to him on a personal level but also as a vital part of his success. Coupled with having the right people on board, success comes much easier. Ben states that ownership is key to creating a space where staff feels they belong and the outcome is that they deliver even greater results.

Getting The Right Practical Aspects In Place To Obtain Such Rapid Growth

When you are starting a business to grow it at a rapid pace, it does require that you have certain measures in place to ensure that everything happens at a certain pace. How did Ben do this?

• As he has been in the industry for quite some time, he had access to a strong network.
• He trusts his team of managers with whom he has relationships outside the office too.
• They empower these managers to operate more independently and this helps the growth of the business.
• Primis partnered with two rec-to-rec partners
• The team is launching their training academy to ensure recruits get the proper training to hit the ground running.
• They are creating an environment of inclusion and diversity
• When it comes to clients, they offer several service options
• They ensured financial backing in advance.

What Are The Mistakes Ben Has Made Along the Way

As a large part of Ben’s success at Premier Group was the large expansion he delivered on, taking the recruitment team from 14 to 110 people, he can share some lessons learned. The following are all things he mentions to ensure rapid expansion

• Take care to ensure work/life balance
• Don’t micromanage your team
• Clients are your partners and it is vital to build personal relationships

These and many other insights that Ben brings to the podcast can help you too to speed up the growth of your business.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Ben Broughton Bio and Contact Info

Ben’s career in recruitment started in 2000 when he joined the team of SThree. Here his primary responsibility was to set up and run offices for the company across Birmingham, Leeds and Reading.

By 2006, he moved on to Premier Group. After successfully expanding the contract function of the business he continued to open offices for the Premier brand in Manchester, London, Birmingham, New York and Austin. During his 14 years as managing director, he led the company to expand from 14 people to 110, reaching revenue of more than £30 million and £10 million NFI.

As founder of Primis, Ben scaled the business to 21 employees since September 2021. Ben’s mission is to grow the Primis brand into a leading technology-focused recruitment business that puts people first.

• Ben Broughton on LinkedIn
• Primis website link
• Primis on LinkedIn

People and Resources Mentioned

• Steve Beckitt on LinkedIn
• SourceBreaker website link
• Amoria Bond website link
• OneUp website link
• Steve Wynne on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * How Recruiters Can Promote Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, with Chikere Igbokwe, Ep #102 * How to Build a High-Performance Sales Team and Skyrocket Your Growth, with Ian Moyse, Ep #83

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Looking back on the past two years, how would you summarize the impact that Covid-19 had on your business? For most companies, this was a devastating time and an even worse period for the individuals who worked in these firms. It was no different for the team at Cubed Talent Management, but they opted to turn the cards into their favour and can now look back on two records years. Added to this success, they are confident in predicting a 35% increase in the budget for 2022.

What Steven Street, CEO of Cubed Talent Management, brings to the table is much more than 25 years of experience and exceptional skills in the industry. The insights he is sharing is much more profound as it speaks of a deep understanding of how to take a calm approach amidst global chaos. Under his guidance Cubed Talent Management could revert back to basics, set certain vital systems in place and excel beyond expectations

“Without sounding like I am fetishizing the pandemic which was terrible and truly a crisis for too many people. There was something strangely exhilarating about the whole thing where there was little we were completely in control of and I think it had a bit of a levelling effect,” is Steven’s take on the first couple of weeks after Covid-19 became a very relevant reality. In this podcast, he shares how his team managed to turn what could have been a disaster into profound success.

Episode Outline and Highlights:

• [0:28] Introducing Steven Street
• [3:24] How Covid-19 illuminated the need to live by your company values
• [9:48] What is CIRCLE and how did it create a launchpad for new growth and success?
• [14:00] Freedom regarding working conditions ensured productivity
• [15:25] 1st of June 2020 became recovery week 1
• [18:00] Lesson #1 from the pandemic - keeping it simple
• [25:00] Redefining key markets to include sustainable sectors
• [26:30] What were the most prominent changes ensuring record-breaking years?
• [28:13] The benefits stemming from looking at the business from a different perspective
• [32:25] What is a pre-registration storyboard and how to use it to differentiate your brand
• [43:13] Hosting virtual events for clients helped to improve the team’s success in converting more candidates into placement
• [53:02] Effective implementation of “doing more and talking less”
• [58:50] Addressing increased personal productivity and improved behaviour

How Cubed Talent Management Managed to Turn Covid-19 Into Two Record Years

“What the pandemic taught us was really was to flatten and simplify and we went back into direct drive. For every input, for every hour worked, for every pound spent, for every effort expended, we’ve got to see the wheels turn and they’ve got to turn quickly and they got to turn and take us into the right direction to the next destination which was recovery, consolidate. grow and then scale.”

Steven explains how they realized when the pandemic stripped away the numbers they were used to and all the comforts and certainties that come along with success, all they had left was each other and the values they shared and the bonds that tied the team together.

The platform they could use to gain traction again consisted of basic human needs of association, community, security and a sense of belonging. The result was a record two years in the business. As they had no choice but to change, they opted to go at it “really hard and radical.” They realized that they went through the typical enterprise maturity cycle and that they need to take on the mindset of being a startup again. This was how they could attend to the tasks that really mattered and made a difference to their success. From here they could proceed from recovery mode, to consolidate, grow and scale. This is where they are now and the foundation that allows them to put an exciting but reasonable growth expectation in place for 2022.

The Values That Served as the Glue Leading to Success

CIRCLE - what does it stand for? Steven explains what these values are what they were holding onto. He also emphasizes that for values to be the platform of your success, you need to do more than claim them, you need to live them. While value statements are mostly written manifestos of what your brand stands for during times when all is well, their team has experienced that their values became even more tangible when all bets were off due to this immense disruption of lives the world experienced during especially the height of the pandemic.

Lesson Learned - Keys to Lasting Success

Cubed Talent Management showed themselves as exceptionally successful to manage their in-house talent optimally during a time that might as well turn out in quite a different manner. What did they learn during this time?

• Simplify procedures
• Redefine key markets
• Be more productive
• Be more discerning about what communication is necessary and when
• Revert to doing what a start-up does

These are only some of the aspects Steven believe will enable a recruitment firm to enjoy an unexpected level of success.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Steven Street Bio and Contact Info

Got into recruitment on the ground floor - fortuitously, with Larry Gould's business Link Up in June 1993 - followed by a successful stint with Pertemps (which would have been my forever career - had I not launched Relay Recruitment in 1996; subsequently sold in 2011. Now working with an amazing handpicked team at Cubed Talent Management.

As stated on my LI profile: a human Swiss Army knife, problem solver, acquirer and nurturer of World Class talent, therapist, wine drinker, believer in a brighter future and, most importantly- lover of dogs. 🐶 Yorkshire born and bred - dragged up in Bradford.

A vociferous enemy of mediocrity, shabby service, average aspiration, poor standards and negativity.

My own personal mission is to launch a community enterprise supporting young people with Autism, Aspergers and other additional needs into dignified internships, work placements, work experience and ultimately, quality career pathways.

• Steven Street on LinkedIn
• Cubed Talent Management website link
• Cubed Talent Management on LinkedIn
• Cubed Talent Management on Twitter
• Cubed Talent Management in Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned:

• Non-profit Org that Steven Supports: Martin House Children’s Hospice
• Fundraising and Creating Awareness for Martin House

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy * TRR #51 Disrupting the Recruitment Industry: Radically Rethinking Our Client Relationships, with Steven Street

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Imagine starting your own recruitment business with zero experience in recruitment and only 10 days later the world comes to a standstill with 9/11.

This is how the story of Mark Brown, co-founder and director of Worldwide Recruitment Solutions (WRS) started. However, this wasn’t the last obstacle in his way. Their niche field was financial institutions with a specific focus on the mortgage market when the 2008 financial collapse took place. From there they transitioned their business into serving the oil and gas industry and 2014 came along, seeing the oil industry plummeting.

In this podcast, Mark expands on how they still managed to grow WRS to revenue of £56 million and EBITA of £1.7M with 4 international offices (UK, Singapore, Iraq & Uganda), becoming the 3rd fastest growing recruitment company in the UK.

Episode Outline and Highlights:

• [1:24] The journey from call centre manager to founding a recruitment business
• [4:51] 10 days after launching 9/11 rocked the world
• [6:15] The urgently search for a new niche and stumbling into the world of finance
• [9:50] A career of surviving and thriving the worst of downtimes
• [13:55] Expanding internationally
• [15:22] Sep 2008 - started World Recruitment Solutions (WRS)
• [16:27] The motto of “Cash is King” helped them weather the storms
• [20:42] The simple model that proved effective in following their vision
• [25:10] 2011 WRS entered the oil and gas industry, the cash cow they needed
• [27:50] How to grow your business from 5 - 30 people in 3 years
• [29:50] The secrets to enjoying a 90% staff retention
• [37:48] And then the oil industry plummeted - surviving another crisis
• [46:43] Solving infrastructure challenges with the right tech stack and automation
• [54:00] Winning the Sunday Times Award for Best Small Company to Work For
• [55:48] Why creating a respectful environment is so important at WRS
• [59:35] Where is WRS heading the future?

Cash Is King

“You talk about systems but there weren’t any systems. The reality was that this was a decision that I’d taken on the back of good advice. I think the advice I was given besides that cash is king is to make sure you’ve always got a minimum of 6 and ideally 9 months worth of working capital, business as usual working capital so that you can keep the lights on,” Mark explains how they managed to survive and thrive through 4 major global financial crises.

How to Scale Your Business to 30 People

In a matter of three years, WRS grew from 5 to 30 people. On top of that, they also have an employee retention rate of 90%. Mark compared their system to that of Jack and the Beanstalk where they had four department heads and added new team members underneath each one.

The following factors all influenced their success in hiring the right people to fall underneath these heads:

• An organizational structure that allowed them to bring in individuals to work underneath a certain line manager
• They employed trainees
• They looked for a certain DNA in these individuals
• WRS had an excellent training platform
• By appointing a learning and development manager
• Employing outside experts to fill knowledge gaps

However, what added more value to the business was the high retention rate that sometimes was above 90%. As WRS always gave their staff the perfect runway to grow within, staff would very seldom leave the business. Mark also pointed out that they created a clear path for everyone joining the firm and they offered a space without any glass ceilings and where the opinion of employees was respected.

Why Did WRS Win The Sunday Times Best Small Company to Work for Award?

Mark states that even though the company has grown tremendously since its early days, they’ve maintained the same kind of culture. The management team, the L&D team and the culture of the business never changed. “I refer back to respect, fair environment, an environment where people feel they belong, feel they have a voice, feel they have an input, they understand the purpose of the company and the direction of travel and that is through constant communication,” Mark shares why he believes they won the award for being the best small company to work for.

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Mark Brown Bio and Contact Info

Mark Brown is the co-founder of Worldwide Recruitments Solutions (WRS) and has 20 years experience as a recruitment business owner and CEO. Involved in the start up of two recruitment brands - KCMB (2001-08) & WRS (2008 to date).

WRS is a global recruitment consultancy and workforce solutions company serving the oil and gas, mining, marine and power industries. In 2021, WRS achieved revenue of £56M with an EBITDA of £1.7M. The brand has a global presence with offices in UK, Singapore, Iraq and Uganda. They currently have a headcount of 65 (peaked at 120 in 2015).

WRS was recently named by Recruiter Magazine as the 3rd fastest growing recruitment company in the UK. He and his team have a long list of awards that includes being the Sunday Times Best Small Company to Work for, WRS enjoys a place on the Version Fast Track List and they’ve received the Queen’s Award for Enterprise and International Trade.

Mark brings expertise in international trade and global expansion and is an advocate of technology innovation and digitisation to improve business process and efficiency. Married for 20 years, he has twin daughters (aged 22). A keen supporter of football (30 years a season ticket holder at Man United) and horse racing as a spectator sport.

• Mark Brown on LinkedIn
• Worldwide Recruitment Solutions website link
• Worldwide Recruitment Solutions on LinkedIn
• Worldwide Recruitment Solutions on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned:

• Profits First by Mike Michalowicz
• Workr https://workrgroup.com/
• Francis Dunleavy on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Episode Outline and Highlights