Gut Check Project: Recent Episodes
KBMD
Improve your health & quality of life, find the truth between natural and medical science. Join Ken and Co-host Eric Rieger on the GCP, and get an unfiltered approach to your health as they host guests from all over the world. Nothing is off limits. Step in and get your gut checked...Ken (Kenneth Brown, MD) is a board certified gastroenterologist that turned his private practice into a hotbed of innovation. Ken has long been intrigued on how to best care for his patients. He challenged big pharma and developed an all natural solution (Atrantil) for bloating and symptoms of IBS. That lead him to dig deeper and find more answers and uses for polyphenols. Then he began to help his patients that were suffering from inflammation, not only in their guts, but their entire bodies, including neuro/brain & immune issues. Dr. Brown has tackled serious issues with natural and proven methods that his patients love him for. But he is not finished. The Gut Check Project exists to find better answers for you in all aspects of health. Experts in all fields of study, industry, and interest will be found on the GCP. Eric (Eric Rieger, CRNA) is Ken's business partner and actually met Ken while delivering anesthesia to his patients in 2012. Eric saw first hand the passion that Ken had for his patients, his support staff, and for the answers that could improve people's lives. Eric enjoys science and research swell, and has a passion for helping people find sensible means to take care of themselves, but always armed with the best information. Join the GCP and SUBSCRIBE AND SHARE!!!!
How do you protect your brain? If you play sports you may say “I wear a helmet”…
But how do you give your brain the tools to clear out debris from damage and to rebuild lost neuro connections?
Alzheimer’s, CTE, memory loss and more can almost always share a link with injury and inflammation that caused the trouble. Our bodies are built to recover from these inflammation episodes.
However, when the brain doesn’t have the tools to eliminate the trouble and then repair, chronic disease becomes the norm.
Join Ken & Eric as they dive deep into why a lack of flavonoids may leave people that should be able to recover, injured and with neurodegenerative problems.
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Weight loss is far too broad without specifically targeting the issue of fat loss.
Can supplements actually make a difference?
In short… YES!
Join Ken and Eric as they explore how to engage with supplements and a strategy for losing fat while increasing energy and preserving muscle and bone tissue NATURALLY!
Be sure to join GCP RAW for full access, ability to ask guests questions, and more! Use code “HERO” for a free month.
JOIN GCP RAW TODAY!
Shari Guess is the host of the “Heavily Metalled” podcast. Her inspiration for starting her show was realized from her near death experience as her body waged a significant war against the metals used in the hardware from her surgeries.
In this episode Shari explains what she experienced, how she found answers to indicate that it indeed was metal sensitive and allergic reactions, and how the removal of most of that hardware has allowed her to escape being bed ridden.
Not everyone will suffer this outcome, but for those that do, the true cause of why some people may not seem normal could be related to metal exposure or surgical hardware from routine procedures.
Join Ken & Eric as they host Shari and learn more about her story of returning to normal!
Be sure to join GCP raw for full access, ability to ask guests questions, and more! Use code “HERO” for a free month.
Gutcheckproject.locals.com
No more need for high cost access to physicians that can visit with their patients for more than 8 minutes.
“Doc” Brad Fagile, MD is the correct-founder of Endo Direct care. He tells Ken & Eric how he changed his patient care model from liter herding over 30 patients through his office per day with very limited contact to a caring and relaxed scheduled time to visit and connect with his patients and their families.
No more unnecessary labs or treatments. A better understanding of the lives his patients desire to live. Doc explains how his Direct Primary Care model membership model delivers better care for every single patient, and costs less time and money.
https://www.ensodirectcare.com/
Join Ken & Eric on the GCP, be sure to check our GCP RAW for uncut content around the hurdles that Doc faced upon his departure from leaving the ACO.
Having educated over 1 MILLION healthcare professionals worldwide,
DrBeen is on a mission to help medical and nursing students become great professionals.
So you can imagine, that after being trusted to reach and teach so many, the complete surprise to DrBeen when he faced threats of physical harm to himself and his family. He stood firm and he credits the strength and support of his wife for him to never give up on behalf of those that need solutions to their struggles with covid and treatment injury.
Thanks to DrBeen, inanition to some of the more controversial repurposed medications, he is now educating providers on the success and mechanism of action of methylene blue to defeat long-covid complications and other problems.
A medical doctor, software engineer, presenter, medical artist, and speaker, Dr. Syed is the CEO and founder of DrBeen Corp, an online medical education platform that aims to democratize medical education for all.
Dr. Syed’s dedication to teaching began at Horizon Medical Institute. During the pandemic, he has reviewed more than 10,000 studies and presented over 1,500 lectures on YouTube. His videos have been viewed over 70 million times. A core contributor to FLCCC’s COVID-19 protocols, Dr. Syed also hosts a video series for FLCCC called ‘Long (COVID) Story Short’, which focuses on making the latest research accessible to all audiences.
Join the Ken & Eric of the GCP as DrBeen tells how he endured harassment and fought back while speaking
at the FLCCC educational conference 2023.
DrBeen https://www.drbeen.com
Twitter @drbeen_medical
FLCCC 2023 Educational Series & Lectures
https://covid19criticalcare.com/courses/conference-2023-spring-basic/
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If you ever want to ask a question for upcoming guests, just click here and give GCP RAW a try on us:
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It’s no news to you, cancer treatment is a very serious matter. It’s complicating enough for the patient, the family, and the effort of the healthcare team.
Now healthcare professionals around the world are witnessing a marked increase in cancer frequency, and it is affecting all ages. This aggressive change has Dr. Nathan
Goodyear not only referencing the cancer of today as a turbo cancer, but the dawn of anew delineation. Cancer before and now cancer AFTER COVID.
Dr. Goodyear shares why the biggest obstacle for effective treatment is obfuscation, and the best remedy is truth and open dialogue amongst caregivers without threat
of suppression.
Dr. Goodyear is the medical director at Brio Medical, Board Certified in Obstetrics and Gynecology and has practiced Integrative Medicine since 2006. Dr. Goodyear is a Fellow in Functional and Regenerative Medicine and served on the board of the American Functional Medicine Association. He is dually licensed by the Arizona Medical Board and the Arizona Homeopathic and Integrative Medical Board in the State of Arizona.
Join the Ken & Eric of the GCP as Dr. Goodyear describes the cancer virus threat
at the FLCCC educational conference 2023.
Brio Medical https://brio-medical.com
FLCCC 2023 Educational Series & Lectures
https://covid19criticalcare.com/courses/conference-2023-spring-basic/
Please LIKE & SHARE and use code “HERO” for a free month of GCP RAW!
If you ever want to ask a question for upcoming guests, just click here and give GCP RAW a try on us:
https://gutcheckproject.locals.com/support/promo/HERO
Have you felt alone in trying to improve your overall health? What about when how you look doesn’t really represent how you feel?
EVERYONE struggles to maintain the optimal health, no matter what the appearance may be.
As a long time fitness model and former body builder, Rachel Scheer shares her impactful story of how her gut health was being compromised as she worked overtime to maintain physique and performance.
Rachel has an incredible perspective and drives the relative perspective for all of us, regardless of where we find our current health, weight, or mood.
We are so fortunate for Rachel to have dropped in to share with Ken & Eric and become our first TWO TIME GUEST on the GCP!
Please Like & SHARE, and thank you for supporting the GCP!
Rachel’s Podcast “Scheer Madness” https://scheermadness.buzzsprout.com/
Rachel’s Homepage https://rachelscheer.com/
IG @rachelscheer @RACHELSCHEERNUTRITION @SCHEERMADNESSPODCAST
Were you aware that every 68 seconds, an American suffers from sexual assault?
It’s a sobering statistic that knows no boundaries from race or even sex. Females are most often the victim, however males can be subjected to the horrific act as well.
Layne Garrett, LPC joins Ken & Eric on The Gut Check Project to discuss the barriers to helping those that may need an escape form the tortuous burden of having been a victim of a crime that they never deserved.
Layne’s service is a noble cause, and one that we all probably may underestimate the scale of the actual number of people that need help. A former teacher, Layne has rededicated her career to hellion those that suffer in silence.
But nobody needs to suffer alone, and there is hope to overcome the trauma. Making yourself aware of the clues might even provide some insight and you may notice a loved one of your own might need to talk with someone like Layne.
There are all kinds of pathways to healthy living, and being consumed by the stress stemming from trauma is worth addressing.
How prevalent might these scenarios be? Here are some numbers to consider:
§ 70% of sexual assaults are committed by a perpetrator known or related to the victim (1)
§ 2 in 5 women in Texas have been sexually assaulted (2)
§ 1 in 5 men in Texas have been sexual assaulted (2)
§ 6.3 million Texans have experienced some form of sexual assault in their lifetime (2)
· 1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed, 2.8% attempted).
· About 3% of American men—or 1 in 33—have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.
· A majority of child victims are 12-17. Of victims under the age of 18: 34% of victims of sexual assault and rape are under age 12, and 66% of victims of sexual assault and rape are age 12-17.
· 9 out of every 10 victims of rape are women.
Join Layne with Ken & Eric as they discuss what sexual trauma therapy looks like, what goals can be attained, techniques like EMDR, and why there truly is how for a better life for all victims of traumatic events.
CONNECT WITH LAYNE:
cultivatehealing.net
layne@cultivatehealing.net
Please LIKE & SHARE, and THANK YOU for joining the GCP!
If you’ve ever looked at the snot dripping from a cow’s nose, and it made you think of becoming “frisky”… well, as strange as that sounds, you are not alone! (This story shows how wild ideas become meaningful science.)
Ken & Eric hit the ground running in the early days of COVID, and over time, it’s actually demonstrated that long time accepted reasoning and application of physiology concepts actually paid off. What did the inflammation of COVID or even the mRNA vaccine do to the public’s microbe? What can we do to improve our current state of covid struggles?
WWYMS… What Would Your Microbiome Say? An easy question to practice asking yourself before you embark upon a meal, an activity choice, or a stressful situation. It might even condition your decisions to ultimately be more beneficial for a healthier life!
Quick hit topics on this show, covering a good amount of ground. Join Ken & Eric on this episode, and PLEASE be sire to LIKE & SHAREthe GCP!
Did you know that negotiating the cash pay cost of your prescription drugs could possibly be determined if you simply have insurance!?!?
Mark Cuban has a new approach to reducing the red tape, the bureaucracy, and the ultimate barriers too access for many of the prescriptions that Americans need.
How does a Pharmacy Benefit Manager affect your pocket book? You won’t like the answer!
Also, if enjoying an occasional alcoholic beverage sometimes comes with a cost of a hangover (or worse) what might be the cause, and could there actually be a remedy by preparing your body for the libations themselves?
Tune in to the Gut Check project and listen as Ken & Eric address these popular topic suggestions from GCP viewers and listeners JUST LIKE YOU!
Please Like and Share and THANK YOU for being a part of the Gut Check Project!
Ryan “Birdman” Parrott was a trained sniper in his SEAL team. After transitioning out of the SEAL teams, there was an assumption that they were safe, back home on American soil. On January 2nd, 2019, Birdman received a call from a teammate, stating that his SEAL team partner David R. Metcalf had taken his own life. As he navigated his own grief, Birdman was inspired to do more than simply mourn. The issues facing war tattered and battle worn veterans is far beyond just a label of PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder).
Birdman recognized that despite the well intentioned non-profits to help these vets, we continue to lose thousands of military members and first responders every year.
Army Veteran Daniel Somers wrote this in his suicide note in 2013: “I am left with basically nothing. Too trapped in a war to be at peace, too damaged to be at war.”
As with Birdman’s observations, Daniel’s words suggest that there is a whole body element to post traumatic stress that is being missed. Birdman reached out to a physician to discuss human performance in people with trauma. His hypothesis was to test these individuals on a physiological level and obtain a baseline.
Birdman has assembled a world class team of Physicians, Ph.D.’s, Phycologists, Physiatrists, Sports Physiologists, and former Special Operators to make up the Human Performance Project. The mission is to create a manual to guide the tactical population, enabling them to thrive upon entry, during and post service. Ken & Eric are honored to host Birdman on the GCP.
Please LIKE and SHARE and be certain to check out the links below to find out how you can not only learn but contribute to the mission of healing these heroes. YOU MIGHT EVEN WIN A TRIP TO ALL 7 CONTINENTS!!! Stay tuned!
American Extreme https://www.americanextreme.com/
Legacy Jump Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmP-rxpZcSM
Friday Frogman channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH2UIMEKkGOScxwDUb4QxDg
FB/IG @BirdmanActual
What crosses your mind when you or someone that you love experiences dizziness, random mouth sores, mood changes, muscle weakness…? It could be something as basic as a virus. It could be a vitamin B12 deficiency or folate issue related to Methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR).
All of the way from Australia, Joanne Kennedy BHSc was kind enough to join the GCP and address some the most perplexing metabolic issues that we face today.
In this episode you will hear so much more about the intricate science, presentation, symptoms, and treatment around these imbalanced vitamins and amino acids. If you’ve every been concerned about homocysteine, folate, B12, anemia, and related issues, this episode has a wealth of knowledge that you can use.
Join Joanne, Ken, & Eric on the GCP, and please LIKE AND SHARE the Gut Check Project with your friends and fam!
Connect with Joanne!
The ultimate Guide to Histamine Intolerance https://joannekennedy.com.au/ebook/
www.joannekennedy.com.au
Follow Joanne on Instagram @joannekennedynaturopath
Follow Joanne on Facebook @joannekennedynaturopathy1
What in the world do all of these subjects have to do with each other… well loosely, quite a bit!
Ryan & Rob place a bet with each other over getting a colonoscopy.
The FDA has recently had a large drop in public trust and their funding may play a big part in that decline.
Methane and even hydrogen sulfide production in the gut is normal, but can quickly get out of control, but what you should YOU know about it?
All of this covered in this episode of Gut Check Project.
Please Like & Share with your friends and fam, and THANK YOU for being a part of the GCP!
Glyphosate (often referred to by the popular trade name Roundup) has been approved for use on many crops… But at what risk?
What value does the assurance of a Non-GMO food come with, and how important could it be for a baby and their setup for long term health?
Also, out of Stanford, a synthetic microbiome has been developed. How will it be used and what could it mean.. bot good and bad?
Join Ken & Eric on the GCP as they address concerns regarding these and other developments…
PLUS Eric is put on the spot to sing a song by Ken… PROTECT YOUR EARS!
Please Like and Share this episode with your friends & family, and thank you for joining us on the GCP!
Were you ever told that eating turkey was a solid source of Tryptophan? Well it is.. and so are so many other foods!
And that is GREAT news for all of us. Tryptophan is an essential amino acid, meaning that YOU NEED to consume it in order to achieve optimal health.
Join us today as Ken also walks us through how Crows have a real mourning ceremony for their fallen and why IPAs may not be just the beer that brew enthusiasts enjoy.
Join Ken & Eric on the GCP and PLEASE LIKE AND SHARE with your friends and fam!
We’ve covered A LOT in the space of longevity and health span… BECAUSE YOU ARE WORTH IT!
In this series finale, Ken and Eric give context to supplement choices and a wrap on the series covering your ability to live your life longer, more full, and healthier than you may have thought possible.
Join Ken & Eric on the GCP, today!
Be sure to like and share this episode, and thank you for being a part of the KBMD Health family!
Stop wasting time & money. Supplement stores offer all kinds of options. But are you using supplements to improve your health?
How informed are you for what you actually need and know that works?
The GCP longevity series has covered a lot of basics. The basics have to be addressed for health span success.
So IF you are already working to achieve the basics for your own health, be sure to tune into this episode of the GCP and learn what unbiased research shows your next steps to consider are for health supplementation, AND LEARN WHY!
Ken brings a host of ideas with the science to Eric for you to make the best decisions for your health.
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Eating well, sleeping enough, and controlling anxiety are all things for you to do for longevity… but why???
These things are just setting the stags for optimal performance in YOUR microbiome.
The microbiome is intricate, complex, and essential for good health.
Join Ken & Eric on the GCP and learn how this magical organ keeps you living well and healthy!
You know the importance of fiber, right? So many digestive issues could be improved or even avoided with the right amount and type of fiber consumed.
But where do you get enough? Can great tasting WATER actually be source of fiber?
Martin Ruette is the founder of Vibi+ fiber water.
Martinis a serial entrepreneur and in this episode he details his near-death experience from a perforated diverticulitis infection! Martin also discusses his long recovery and ultimately how it led to chronic digestive issues.
Realizing that he needed more fiber he was in a constant struggle to consume enough fiber because of his digestive issues.
He knew that he needed to find a solution in order to actually improve.
For the next 15 years he worked with scientists in Brazil, Europe, and the US to ultimately develop Vibi+ water with a prebiotic called polydextrose.
Join Ken and Martin as they discuss Martin’s WHY and PURPOSE to help others avoid what he went through.
Ken also addresses how this prebiotic has been shown to improve microbial diversity, increase short chain fatty acids like butyrate, improve colitis and even help prevent colon cancer.
Thank you for hanging with us on the GCP!
https://vibiplus.com/
https://vibiplus.com/our-story/
You, as a human, are by nature a social creature. That doesn’t just mean that you have the ability to meet people and congregate. In fact, it is ESSENTIAL that you seek and develop bond with other humans. Your very health depends upon it. But how exactly does this work? And what will it do for you? You most likely know that smoking is bad for you. Well, being lonely is just as bad to your longevity and health span. Simply, we are hard-wired biologically to socialize and there is evolutionary reasoning. There are ways to increase your social circle. And in this episode we feature a call during the show with Delaney Shiu who is in med school and she explains what her med school is doing to make sure they develop social circles for long term success!
Join Ken & Eric on the GCP for some socializing and friend making!
Have you voluntarily avoided eating for a purpose? To “fast” is to do exactly that.
Maybe you had a surgical procedure and you were instructed to not eat for several hours. Maybe you have participated in a fast for a religious exercise. Or possibly you’ve attempted fasting to lose weight.
What you may not have known is that there are direct benefits to your health by utilizing fasting and adhering to the exercise itself.
From water fasts of no food for multiple days to intermittent fasting by only consuming all of tour daily calories within a specific amount of time each day, there are tangible benefits to for someone that implements fasting as a part of the health maintenance.
Most importantly, you can use fasting as one of the no cost tools to improve your health span in order to achieve optimal longevity.
Join Ken & Eric as they discuss the many avenues of fasting and what health gains you can achieve on the GCP!
Supplement companies, exercise groups, religious & spiritual organizations, and clean food experts are only SOME of the people that are talking longevity.
But what does it mean to YOU?
Living long is not the same as living well, comfortable, and healthy. Lifespan should be best matched with your HEALTHSPAN.
That means giving you the best quality of life possible. What’s great is that every single group that is talking about longevity is also describing key elements to improve your healthspan.
Join Ken & Eric on the GCP to kick off this topic as they break down the categories and pillars of healthspan and longevity today!
An episode 74 we have Rich hagadorn, a 25-year combat veteran, senior non-commissioned officer and inductee to the Nebraska national guard Hall of Fame, and most importantly childhood friend from over 40 years ago.
Here's an infectious storyteller and recounts what it was like during the first Gulf war
Since he has retired from the military on his off time, he works with disabled veterans and take them out into nature and guides them and hunting and fishing.
Now Rich is co-owner of soldier valley spirits which is a veteran owned veteran, run Spirit company, making great bourbon, whiskey vodka and rum and winning many national awards. But more importantly their why is to give back to non-profit organizations that support veterans. With every sale they give a portion of each sale back to non-profit veteran organizations.
We are honored on the Gut check project to have a combat veteran who now is the co-owner of a business that gives back to less fortunate veterans.
It's a little less sciency than we normally do, but it is entertaining
For more information visit https://soldiervalleyspirits.com
Shouldn’t businesses have your best interest for their services? How do good companies stay grounded to sound principles?
Everyone can use guidance and feedback. Also, people seem learn the most about themselves when they give.
Ken & Eric have been members of a group which facilitates building these opportunities and relationships throughout the year.
Join the GCP as these two shed some light on their most recent meeting in Croatia with Baby Bathwater Institute!
Wellness Mama https://wellnessmama.com/author/wellnessmama/
Dr Emil https://www.doctoremil.com/about-dr-emil-hodzovic/
Chris https://www.tridentmindset.com/
Itimar https://itamarmarani.com/
flow research collective https://www.flowresearchcollective.com/
“Gimme your poo!” Not a typical request, but evidence is mounting regarding using other peoples healthy fecal matter to heal the sick.
It’s officially called Fecal Microbial Transplant (FMT), and it may sound wild, but some direct results have demonstrated success.
So can anybody just swap poop for health???
NO! The knowledge isn’t quite there yet, but what is known is that almost any biological process of one person can be transferred. However, that includes the good AND the bad.
What about Inter-species FMT? Funny, Eric tells of his own personal experience doing exactly that!!!
So clean off the bottoms of your shoes and be careful as you step into this episode of the GCP with Ken & Eric.
To follow up our health benefits discussion in episode 70, you need to know how to make Yerba mate safe for you.
Does organic matter? Do people that drink mate actually increase their risk of cancers? What method is the best way to prepare mate to avoid danger?
Join Ken and Eric as they break down some demo data and discuss how you can safely approach enjoying this South American specialty drink with your friends and family!
Please be sure to like and share and thank YOU for joining us on the GCP!
Yerba Mate is a name that’ll grab your attention, and it’s much easier to say than Ilex paraguariensis, which is the plant that it is made from . You have probably seen Yerba mate listed on a can or two of an energy drink, and it’s no accident. This natural drink packs a lot of potential benefit.
It’s not exactly coffee, not exactly tea, although it’s very similar to both.
Having roots in ceremonial gatherings of friends and family, this cold brewed drink is steeped in water, and then enjoyed with quick slurps from a guampa or porongo (cup made from a gourd) with a special bombilla (straw) usually made of wood.
Well who in the world drinks this stuff? For almost every country in South America, the consumption of Yerba Mate or just mate is a daily occurrence. And although highly consumed, what many may not know is that when consumed safely, Yerba mate is very healthy and can potentially supplement the consumer with great polyphenol and other benefits.
BUT… there is a RIGHT and WRONG way to consume mate, and the method can actually determine if the drink is more friend or foe for those that drink it!
Join Ken & Eric for episode 70 to be formally introduced to mate and understand why this small custom might become a part of your routine.
Please be sure to like and share and thank YOU for joining us on the GCP!
The Gut Check Project is BACK! All new set, new sign, and new plans for the show!
So we’ve been quiet for a bit, and wouldn’t you know… shipping delays apply to materials for building sets and new signs.
Happened to us..
But we cannot wait to see YOU joining us back here on the show!
So much to get to, and the relaunch of the GCP is finally here.
This quick episode is a rest to catch everyone up, cuz things are about to take off.
Thank you all so much for the email and calls and kind words.
Looking forward to continue building a great show for YOU!
Be sure to like and subscribe, and soon, the BONUS portal will be opening so Stay Tuned and stay Healthy!
Kiran Krishnan is a microbiologist that has made huge waves in health and microbiome science. Well beyond concepts, Kiran has helped engineer, create, and study Spore probiotic delivery systems. It is incredibly unique in that before Microbiome Labs' data, there was almost no conclusive evidence to demonstrate probiotic efficacy en vivo (in humans/living animals). Kiran shares with GCP the basics of natural vaccination that we all should be doing everyday.
Are puberty blockers safe for children? Exactly who is talking to our children about these drugs? It is a situation that not a large percentage of parents ever really have to face. Or do they?
Chris Elston (AKA “Billboard Chris”) joins the GCP for this episode to discuss why he has earned his nickname, and why he is working so hard to educate the public in the western world about his frightening discoveries.
Chris is a father of two girls and he decided to take a stand. Chris explains that children should be free to be who they are — not indoctrinated to believe they were born in the wrong body. The indoctrination is the biggest issue where Chris has identified a danger that parents may not know exists.
Puberty Blockers are the first step in a medical pathway that brings physical harm to children. Chris demonstrates that activists have not been transparent regrading the effects of these drugs, and the cross-sex hormones which almost always follow. In addition, there are many instances where supervisors of children such as teachers and counselors are given authority to initiate gender transformation without parental consent or even knowledge.
Chris highlights that children are to be protected by their legal guardians, and that they should be protected from lifelong potential health damaging decisions, which are irreversible, especially since they are minors.
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What in the world is microdosing? Can “tiny doses” actually accomplish anything?
The rate of young professionals and lay people turning to psilocybin and other similar natural substances to attempt to bring balance to their mood and brain health grows annually.
It’s no secret that storied institutions such as Johns Hopkins are involved in serious research surrounding the psilocybin and psilocin molecules and how serotonin mimics may actually retrain our brains for the better.
What’s really intriguing is the modern day dosing schedule followed by so many known as “microdosing”. A practice of consuming relatively small doses in successive days to effectively stimulate seretonin receptors. What’s more interesting is the last of cost against the economy of neurotransmission in the brain to make this happen.
Join ken & Eric on the GCP, and LIKE AND SHARE!
Thanks for Listening!
You have no doubt heard some debate on the health benefits of coffee. But what exactly can coffee do for your mental health?
Coffee is naturally constructed to actually help your brain protect itself from inflammation and possibly Alzheimer’s disease, among a few other health issues.
Coffee is actually healthy for us. But can we have too much of it? Sure. But that is not much of an answer. You can also drink too much water, eat too much food, sleep too much, etc… Excess of almost anything can be harmful.
So that leaves us all wondering, “What is within coffee itself that could bring healthy benefits to our lives?” And how much coffee will bring the average adult benefit?
Join our two resident coffee drinkers Ken & Eric and learn why coffee is awesome and why you should embrace your coffee habit!
Please LIKE & SHARE, and thank you for joining the GCP!
Eric Rieger 0:00
Hello gut check project fans and KB MD health family, I hope that you are having a great day. It is now time for a new gut check project episode and guess what? Brain FM is in the house. That's right. Brain FM ceo dan Clark and chief scientist, Kevin Woods. Join us on the show today to talk about an incredible application of sound improving your life solving anxiety, sleep issues. Focus just an incredible tool that I can personally say I've used now for well over a year so as my family so as kids who has kids family, and so have several of our patients, they love brain FM so I don't want to spoil a single thing is an awesome, awesome episode. So let's get to our sponsors and get straight to talking to Dan and Kevin. We of course are always sponsored by atrantil. My co host Kenneth brown discovered, formulated and created atrantil to give to his patients to solve issues that are similar to IBS to give them all the polyphenols that they need for their daily lives whether they be athletes or they have gut issues or they just want to stay healthy. Go to love my tummy.com That's love my tummy.com Pick up your daily poly phenols today and of course unrefined bakery, let me just say some unrefined bakery. My wife is gluten free eater. She's got celiac disease. So I stopped by there and I picked up from unrefined bakery for my wife's birthday. I nice pumpkin pie. It was delicious. You would have no idea that was a gluten free product. It just tastes like awesome pumpkin pie. So go to unrefined bakery.com If you've never ordered from there before use code gut check and save 20% off your entire first order they deliver to any of the connected 48 and or you can you can just stop by go to unrefined bakery.com If you happen to be in the north Texas Metroplex area, and I think they have four locations. So just check them out and they got awesome stuff cupcakes, breads, various snacks that otherwise you may think I have to remain keto or I have to remain gluten free now. I can't have these awesome foods. That's just not true. Check out unrefined bakery.com today use code gut check for 20% off and last but not least go to KB MD health.com. And soon we will be featuring the signature package of course which includes atrantil CBD and of course you can also get not only CBD and atrantil there you can also pick up so if you're feigns That's right, Brock elite and broccoli pro exclusively available from physicians and guess what my co host he's a physician so we get to sell it and we bring it to a cost that you can't get anywhere else. So check out KB MD health.com Today Alright, let's get to some brain FM right now.
Hello Gacek project fans and KB indie Hill family welcome to episode number 64. I'm your host Eric Rinker, joined by my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. And honestly you got a an awesome intro to make here for everybody.
Ken Brown 3:52
Yeah, so we're super excited. This is something I'm extremely passionate about because we have the CEO and the lead scientist for a product that I believe in. I love I have my patients use. I have my staff use I have all my family use, and it is called Brain FM, this if you have any trouble focusing if you have any trouble sleeping, if you have any trouble with anxiety, there is a really, really cool way to correct this. And we've got the owner and CEO, Dan Clark here, and Kevin JP woods, Ph. D. Super smart, and they're going to explain to us why well quite honestly why it's so effective on me why it's so effective on my patients. And one of the most exciting things we've been trying to do this for quite a while now pre pandemic, we realised Eric and I realised that when we tried this on a few patients at the endoscopy suite, not only did patients have a better experience, they were calm going into it. They woke up quicker and almost you vigorously every patient loved without question. And so I'm so excited because they're here in town visiting from New York because we're going to end up actually doing an official study where I think it's going to be groundbreaking. I think we're going to be able to change how people feel about outpatient procedures like colonoscopies decrease the anxiety. And it's not just anecdotal. It's because there's science behind it. There is a growing movement with this, and I am just absolutely thrilled episode 64 is probably going to be our biggest episode, ever to date.
Eric Rieger 5:33
I would imagine so and I don't want to take away time from you all feeding in but just so that y'all know, this is 20 months in the making, I mean, Coronavirus, COVID hit, and derailed all of our effort to really we should, we should be 20 months further down the road of actually implementing this. And it's really for patient benefit, which is what we talk about here all the time. This will enhance the experience, I believe, for people who come through and have procedures. So, Dan, Kevin JP, what's happening?
Unknown Speaker 6:02
Yeah, glad to be here. Thanks for having us.
Eric Rieger 6:04
Well, thanks for coming all the way down to Texas. How's Dallas, amazing, amazing. Not
Unknown Speaker 6:09
my first time in Texas, everything is enormous. The streets are three times as wide as they are in New York. I tried across the street, and I just keep on walking. Keep on walking.
Eric Rieger 6:19
Well, awesome. So yesterday was your first time to join us at the GI suite? And for honestly, I don't want to steal anything. But what was your impression that you thought you might see on an application of your technology? And then how do you see it fitting in kind of how Ken and I have been trying to experience it ourselves?
Unknown Speaker 6:39
Yeah, sure. So first, let's maybe tell everyone what the technology is. And then we can talk about how we jumped in and started this whole process. The backstory is actually interesting. So basically, brain FM, we make functional music designed to help people focus, relax, or sleep better. And mostly, we have a consumer product, where we have 2 million people that use us to jump into focus or switch into relax, or help them sleep. And we've been having really great success there. We have papers and some things in review in nature, which we're really excited about. So it's evidence and science backed. There's some really novel ways which we use music to basically switch you into that state. And I'll let Kevin, jump into that maybe come back to that and some of the science. But what's interesting is while we're chugging ahead on that, what my girlfriend actually she starts going to get a tonsillectomy. And she's signs her life to me, we're dating for six months, I now know we're in a serious relationship. And, and I realised that I'm terrified, and I'm not even getting surgery. And she's very scared. She's never been under before. And I realised at that point that we can use the same things that we're using science to advance on our consumer angle, we can use it in relax in a medical grade setting. Remember calling up Kevin and saying, Hey, can we do anything? And he starts looking at the literature, he starts looking at other things. He goes, Yes, I actually think we can improve it a lot. I pitched that to you guys. When we met. Yeah, like I think we met probably three months later. Just a coincidence. And you'd love the idea. And that's when we became here. So it's really cool. It's been definitely long time in the making. But it was amazing. When we were doing it some some yesterday. And then one gentleman woke up. And he was so he was so he was almost emotional. He was so happy. He's like, every single time I wake up, this is like the worst or most traumatic thing that can happen. And I was using this music and I woke up. And it was it was it was fine.
Unknown Speaker 8:46
And I've done this several times before without music. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 8:49
And that's the thing that we're trying to do is how do we help people relax into surgery, and then wake up, non groggy alert, and in being able to get on with their lives without, you know, making this traumatic, because a lot of people are so scared. And I know for me personally, it was really cool to see you guys doing the art form that you have, because I was able to see that it isn't scary. There's this there's this almost like divider between people that are non medical and medical have and for being able to cross over it and bring a bridge, using some of our music, I think is really what we're set up to do.
Eric Rieger 9:27
So it's interesting that that, honestly, it was really awesome. I think that the first person that y'all got to see feedback from was somebody who was so engaged and immediately wanted to tell you all about it. And I only just want to just so the audience understands exactly what Dan's describing because it was awesome. So kid, I saw this multiple times before they even got here when we use brain FM as an experiment, but essentially this particular patient, he wasn't high high anxieties per se for him his singular case, but he had a history of waking up erratic very emotional, hard to console, not very comfortable in his surroundings as he was emerging. He even told you all, he feared how he was going to wake up. Yeah. How would you describe that you saw him wake up.
Unknown Speaker 10:12
My goodness, he was he was happy. He looked straight in the eyes. And he thanked us on a personal level. And that meant so much. And just knowing that he had those prior experiences, and that he saw such an enormous difference, and I remember him saying, How can I recommend this to people? How can I tell people? Whoa, hold up, we're not ready for that quite yet. But yeah, he was ready to tell the world he was just so excited. And the
Eric Rieger 10:38
credit, the greatest thing is, it's non invasive, meaning that I don't have to inject a new drug brand doesn't have to use a new scope tip or something new, gigantic piece of equipment. I mean, this is something that we can apply. It's practical. And it's gave us real results in appreciable results. And
Unknown Speaker 10:57
it's enjoyable to absolutely. And that's the thing about music is it is familiar to people, they understand it. And yet we have this music with a scientific twist on it. Right? We have a dive into the science later. But you know, it's not exactly the music that you know, but it still is entertaining and fun to listen to. And as something that can distract you, while you're you know, lying there maybe worrying about the procedure you're about to undergo. So, you know, it's art and science coming together in a really special way. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 11:25
yeah. And I think what's cool about it is, to Kevin's point, people for 1000s of years have always used music, right to be able to control their environment, right. And, you know, there's been people that have tried with this in medical settings. But it's, it's always lacking some of the results, some of the things that are proven in science that this can make a better experience, what we're really trying to do is combine both worlds between, you know, auditory neuroscience with Kevin's background, and with a product that can be brought into these experiences that isn't, is more than a placebo. It's something that is shown to have an effect, and it makes everything better. So it's a win for the patient. It's a win for the the clinic, it's a win for everyone involved, because everything just becomes a little bit easier with something that everyone's already used to, which is music.
Eric Rieger 12:20
Again, I know that whenever you've had to had conversations with patients before they come in for their very first colonoscopy, the level of fear and anxiety for somebody who simply has never even endured a procedure before it can be very real, and oftentimes occupies a lot of the time in the clinic for either you or Megan, or one of the nurses or the MA's to really kind of talk them off the ledge. So what have you seen incorporating something like brain FM so far?
Ken Brown 12:46
Alright, so my personal experience, before we even get to the patients, I would say that, but what I really liked is that my day begins. Every every morning, I start my day, I switch from the evening brain FM sleep, because I go to sleep with it. So my day begins was switching it to focus. I come down, I do my French press, which I say French press because Eric gifted me this French class, he's like, dude, quit, quit using drip coffee. It's like French press is the way to go. That's why boil the water, I have my brain FM on, I'm in the focus mode, I put that in focus, because I know within five minutes that my brain is ready to really do this, I'm put the coffee on. I do the French press fire up the computer. And then I start looking at my chart. So within 15 minutes, I am literally ready to roll. Because there's a lot of stuff I have to do. I then go to work to go work out, do whatever I do in my day. And then when I come home, then my wife and kids know this. And everybody has. We all use brain FM we all use it for the exact same things. My kids use it to study, I use it to get my day going, and I use it to put myself down. So I'm such a big believer. And then when we had our first what 30 People that we did at the endo centre, yeah. It's very easy to say, hey, trust me on this. I've experimented with it. All my employees use it. I use it, my family uses it. And what, just like you said being on the other side of this medical experience, even will today Nasreen was talking to these guys. And she said, even though I've scheduled 10s of 1000s of these when it was my turn to do it, I was nervous. And we gave her brain FM to do and she said to you guys, that immediately I calmed down. And now she's had several different procedures since then, and she doesn't care at all. She's like, I know, I'm gonna get in there. I know, I'm gonna wear this, I'm going to calm down. I know I'm gonna go to sleep, and I'm going to wake up and it's going to be refreshing and I'm going to feel good. So she can now tell my patients that she's like, Don't worry about a thing. Because one of the things that really and you and I talk about this all the time and we've had several podcasts, colon cancer is the second leading cause of cancer death in the United States. Colon cancer comes from colon polyps, we have a cure. And you saw that yesterday you are with us, we have a cure. So you and I have this urgency that if you're anxious about having a done, if you're scared, if you know somebody that had colon cancer, if you know somebody that complained about their colonoscopy, anything to get you into the clinic to get those polyps removed, because it saves your life. So now, when we have this opportunity to offer something, to make it a more, a more pleasant experience, not only more pleasant, because we're going to get into the site, we keep saying we're going to get into the science because that's coming the thing, that's the coolest thing. And I'm I want to thank both envision healthcare and and search, that they're being open minded about this. I'm really excited to get all my partners in G IA, looking at this, because I really kind of feel like this is a win win win win. We spoke with Dr. Ackerman, who's been co host, multiple, multiple times, when we spoke with Dr. Ackerman. He said it he's like, yeah, he's like, you just it's it's a no brainer, it's zero risk, potentially might help. And this is somebody who hasn't used it yet. When he realises he's like, Oh, when I said potential, I should have changed that word. He's like, it'll help. And that's what we're gonna end up trying to figure out. So what I love about it is it is just a way to say, look, get it done. Any worries you have, I'm gonna take one layer of that away, the second you show up. And that's what I'm excited about. Because ultimately, it's just a way, if you're worried about it, just make the appointment. We'll handle everything else. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 16:45
I think it's it's interesting, too, because a lot of people that at least from my experience, right, the first time you're going to something like this, you focus on these negative thoughts. So you're trying to push out of your head by using music, which we're used to. And again, we'll get on the science last time we hear that, but it's something that we can focus on something else. So instead of the fears or something else, we can focus on the music that we're listening to, and know that we're in really good hands at a centre that's willing to invest in technology, and try new things. For better patient experience.
Ken Brown 17:20
I would like to just comment on that right there a centre that's willing to invest in technology. You're exactly right. Because when you've been meeting with people, they're saying, you know, we would like to be the Apple version of delivering health care like this.
Unknown Speaker 17:33
Yeah. I mean, well, it's interesting, because if you look at Apple, right, why, why do people want to be Apple, it's because they do things more, they're not the first to do things always. But the first to do things extremely well and extremely thought through. So they take their time. They they're not, you know, first to market sometimes, but other times they are and they when they are they're the dominant factor. And I think it comes down to really finding solutions that truly do work that truly do make a difference. And that are long term solutions rather than the not right. And when we're talking to other people that are looking to be the apple of healthcare, it does take an investment, it does take a chance, like a leap of faith into trying something new. But I think that the the return on that are exponential in patient satisfaction and repeat visitors, people that are actually showing up for appointments because they're less scared because we have a solution for that. But but more with with all the other things that we're learning on as byproducts like efficiency and helping so that's the stuff that we're really exciting, because it's still focused on patient experience first, but there's so many other things that come from patient experience being better. Let me
Ken Brown 18:49
get your take on this real quick. Since you guys did see this from the other side. Yeah, you saw what happens with me and my partners with the staff with the camaraderie how everyone there really is there for one ultimate goal and that's to take care of people to help in any way we can, meaning that we can fix diseases. I just want your take on the how the patients felt and where they came through. And certainly when we started using the technology, because people do need to hear it's easy for a doctor to say oh go go get this done because you should but I love that you're like this is the first time I've seen this and it's it's it's beautiful to watch how you guys as a team. Yeah, everyone.
Unknown Speaker 19:32
Well, I think it really comes shines through that that's true and everyone it has a great teamwork. I went from my perspective, it looks like everyone's there because they're like we have to be a players because we're saving people's lives. And that comes in from the RNs that we saw from the people in the lobby from from how you guys are showing up and and giving great bedside manner joking around everyone's having a good time. because you guys are in a great line of work where you're, again, saving people's lives, and even just talking to some of the the nurses there in our ends, you know, they're not just trying to make the experience where they're processing people, I thought that was really great. Where it's not like, oh, let's get this person with an IV and all these other things as fast as possible. It's like, no, like, Okay, you're sensitive, you've never gotten a needle or an IV or whatever. Let me figure out how to make it. So it's less obtrusive, or less intense. And I thought that was really great. And that's when why we're so excited. We're trying to say, hey, we're gonna add this brain FM thing into it. And they're like, that's gonna make our job even easier. And that was, that was really fun to say,
Eric Rieger 20:43
I love the fact that that's what you said, because what I see brain FM being, I know that it's for the patient, but truly, the person who's going to see the benefit repeatedly is going to be the nurse who's already trying to be exactly what you said, to make sure that it's not a cattle call for the GI centre, or really any surgery centre. Yep, that wants to be appealing to the patient, but at the same time, allow their staff to all be really really good at not everybody is great at talking or, or joking appropriately with a patient and make them come down at ease. But if you could have something that was somewhat of an equaliser, yes, yes, that's been proven and tested, etc. That looks to me like something like brain FM could easily fit that mould really decreasing the burden on the staff that's checking.
Unknown Speaker 21:31
Absolutely. And we were talking earlier about the fellows that we saw yesterday that had this great experience coming out and said that, you know, in previous cases, that he'd come out crying and distress and you think, not only the stress on him, but the stress on the nurses that would have to, you know, deal with them in that situation and calming down, and how that loads day after day on nurses that have to deal with that. Right. And, you know, to be able to relieve some of that burden is just absolutely enormous. And by the way, and what I saw at the centre yesterday was, you know, not only the nurses clearly care about people, but also just extremely efficient, and how quick the process was people with people going through, you know, and I had never been to a GI centre like that before, did not know what to expect. We were struck out. Yeah, how fast the whole thing was, it was amazing.
Unknown Speaker 22:17
Yeah, I think investing, you know, in something like this is investing and also your employees, you know, they see that we were talking to believe it was Alexis. And she's like, this is ice 1000 People wake up a week. And I'm just today I can tell you that those people are waking up faster. And that's, that's something which, when, especially now trying to hire people in the in the world that we live in right now, you want to work at a company that is leading the charge and is something that you can feel really good about working there, because not only are they taking care of you, but they're taking care of everyone else. And I think that that really shone through yesterday as well.
Eric Rieger 22:56
I think we're really lucky honestly can have G IA in this position to help us do this. Because it seems to me like this this lot. And we've talked about this on the show before but this company wants to be a an innovator, not just some big Gi Group. They want to help establish what should be some some good norms instead of some of the the throwaway old norms they want to be the ones that emerge southern think this is this is only going to pay a compliment to that.
Ken Brown 23:23
Yeah. And I want to point something out when you're talking about the efficiency and all that, you know, let's what you did see is the efficiency in the preoperative and post operative, but you saw in the room that it was consistent, it was Eric and I focused. My technician, Mackenzie, we you guys saw that. It's just it's right there. It's the same process. And so by not worrying about the patient's concerns, or the concerns are alleviated when they come in, and I know that they're going to wake up in competent hands, I get to focus 100% on taking care of what I'm looking at with the endoscope. Eric gets to focus 100% on making sure that that patient is sedated and I work as a team and you saw how that is that the the flow of the room. And that's what's beautiful about the centre there. We're at that, although it's the efficiency sometimes people think oh, well, that that feels like you're moving too fast. No, the spot where we slow down is in that route.
Unknown Speaker 24:22
Right? Yep. Yeah, we definitely saw that. Yeah, by efficiency. I just meant as a as somebody coming into the centre for procedure, I would be out of there in less than an hour, which was amazing to me. I always thought that outpatient procedures and you know, my take all afternoon I'd be sitting around all day, did not see any of that. It was really amazing.
Eric Rieger 24:41
Yeah, it is a whole nother dynamic. Beyond that and why this is a good setup. But I do think it's a great setup because we huge exposure for something like brain FM so we can really prove this concept. So let's get into it. What in the world is brain FM? How does it work? He's rubbing his hands together.
Unknown Speaker 25:00
Here we go, here we go. All right,
Ken Brown 25:02
before you even get into this, let's at least can I, I love being around I love being the stupidest person in the room. And yesterday, I'm by far, I just felt like I'm just like playing catch up with Kevin all day long. It's just that you are wicked smart, and certainly have the credentials to prove it. And the way your passion towards this you the whole story. So before we even get into the science, oh, I was out last time.
Eric Rieger 25:35
I was trying to follow the flow here.
Ken Brown 25:38
How in the world? Did you become a PhD in this? Like, what is the path?
Unknown Speaker 25:43
Sure, sure. Well, let's see. I was first interested, I think in the study of consciousness, I want to understand subjective experience. Why it is the case that we should experience anything at all rather than nothing? Why isn't it the case that humans are simply zombies with nothing on the inside, but you know, objects in the world, that kind of thing? Well, it turns out, it's hard to make a living as a consciousness research researcher. But it is possible to make a living as an attention researcher. And of course, attention and consciousness are very closely linked, at least in the sense that you tend to be conscious of what you're paying attention to. So I went into attention research in neuroscience. And within attention, I went into Auditory Research. Being a lifelong musician, just interested in sound in general, there's something magical about sound, right? It's ephemeral, you don't see it, it's in the air. And yet, it's so important to our daily lives, as you're experiencing right now. And so there's this magic about it. And I want wanted to understand, you know, the principles of how do you attend to sound in the world, right. And often, we're in these situations where we're trying to listen to the person talking to us in front of us, but there are other people talking around us, right? Or maybe we're on a busy street corner. Or say we're listening to a piece of music and just trying to hear the guitar part, but ignore the drums. And so there's this notion of a spotlight of attention in listening to things, right. And with the eyes, it's simple to understand how that happens, because you can move your eyeballs around, and you can point your eyes and things right? Well, we don't point our ears at things. We do that with our brain, right? And so if I'm sitting at the dinner table, and I want to listen to the person next to me, instead of the person in front of me, I don't have to turn my head to do that. I do something in my brain, right, that changes the spotlight of my attention so that I'm eavesdropping, right? And what is that process? How does that work? So I became very interested in that. I studied it in undergrad and then then went on to grad school, and did my dissertation on something called The Cocktail Party Problem, which is exactly the problem I've just described. And again, you know that the eyes being a two dimensional sheet, objects already arrived on the retina separated, right, but the eardrum is not a two dimensional sheet that your drum is a one dimensional receiver where you just get pressure over time, sounds mix in the air before they arrive at the ear. And it's the brains problem to unmix those sounds right? This is absolutely fascinating computational problem. So I study that for seven years. And in the process of doing that, I developed some methods to do online auditory experiments, which hadn't been done before. And long story short, you know, the, the old guard in auditory computational neuroscience would have said, Oh, I have have to bring people into my sound attenuated chamber, I have to make you wear my calibrated headphones. And therefore I can only run two subjects a day. Well, it turns out that if you do things online and use the right methods, you can collect 100 participants that day. And the date ends up being roughly the same, you know, with a few more participants, you can even out the noise that's otherwise introduced, but slightly messy online methods. It turns out, it's a massively more efficient way to run experiments. And one day, by chance in the supermarket, I ran into an old colleague of mine, so excited about these methods, I went on and on and on. And she had just hooked up with brain FM. And in that she was a consultant for them. Wow, bright brain FM, this, you know, wonderful company, they're doing functional music. And they really need somebody to, as you know, as a team of one to run lots of lots of experiments, behavioural experiments to figure out, you know, what is the ideal background music for doing, you know, XYZ. And I jumped on that immediately. I started consulting for brain FM, even before I defend what yours is,
Eric Rieger 29:27
do you think, Oh, this
Unknown Speaker 29:28
would have been 20? Nothing? No, no, no, no. 1819 2018 Oh, yeah. Yeah, bless. Yeah. Say I defended in 2018. Yep. And so six months before that, I was I was consulting with Brian FM and, and I remember the day that I defended my dissertation, I signed the employment contract with Brian. Nice, very, very happy day.
Unknown Speaker 29:49
snagging right out.
Ken Brown 29:51
any room at all? And the
Unknown Speaker 29:53
rest? Yeah, the rest is history. And it was gone to do some really incredible things. We got a grant from the National Science Foundation to look into music for ADHD. Out of that has come a this beautiful piece of work that has behavioural experiments has fMRI brain scanning and has EEG, and another method of looking at brain physiology. And we combined all of these methods to essentially show how our focus music works. Yeah, the results are really great. The papers currently in peer review at nature. We're really excited to see how that goes. Yeah, so that's currently currently where we're at with brain FM. Super excited to explain how it actually works. But maybe, since Yeah.
Eric Rieger 30:41
We have to round out and ask Dan. Dan, you mentioned maybe on this podcast, my memory is already fuzzy, but you didn't found brain FM but you hopped on it. The moment that you saw there was an opening so why don't you to go over how you got here?
Unknown Speaker 30:56
Yeah, so I have a very interesting story that's different than Kevin so I, I started making websites when I was 13. I loved it. I thought it was like a nother kind of video game that you could play. And I am a sucker blackbelt. So I made martial arts websites made the first one for my school, and they went from getting 30 leads to 130 leads
Ken Brown 31:19
sorry, somebody that's done martial arts his whole life. What second degree and what? Mixed martial
Unknown Speaker 31:23
arts so it concentrated in jujitsu? Krav Maga, Muay Thai and Cuba.
Eric Rieger 31:28
Sweet. Yeah, Lucinda Drew.
Unknown Speaker 31:32
So yeah, so I did that for a while. And I went to make martial arts websites because I made it for one person. He's like, can you make it for all my friends. And before I was out of high school, I had 20 clients were dropped out of high school, ended up having, you know, 40 clients at one time. And so my first business when I was 20, travel the world and came back and I said, I wonder if I can do this again. Maybe I got lucky. And I started working with businesses and bringing them online and building lead generation businesses and started doing more and more complicated things like POS systems, I started doing digital advertising became digital director of a company at a like 24 years old. And from the outside, I made it you know, I was making more money than my parents, you know, like travelling around the United States selling million dollar contracts. But I didn't I hit this point where I didn't feel like I was as really like helping people like I did when I was teaching martial arts. Because we used to use martial arts as a vehicle to take a kid from being not really confident or sure of himself into a leader into being someone and I'm I'm an effective that I was really shy, I got bullied on mercilessly in fifth grade. I was a little chubby and, and martial art transformed me. So even though I made success, you know, financially, I didn't really find success success personally. And, you know, I had this life or death situation, which is a whole nother podcast to talk through. And I realised I need to quit my job, quit my job, I came across brain FM, like three months later, when I was looking for what I should do, I knew I wanted to work in tech, again, to help people. I remember using it the first time and being blown away. Because I used to work from 10pm to 4am, because that's where I could find my flow state, right. Like, I could find that magic zone where I could just jump into things. And I remember taking my headphones off the first time and being like, this is too good to be true. This is no way this is working. I was super speculative. And I was I was this is just music, right. And I remember trying I save 24 hours and then used it still worked. My diet still worked. And it was it was perfect. Because it was something that allowed me to switch into focus whenever I wanted to. And from then I was like this is going to be something that changed the world. I called the people that created the company like 12 times, I actually started working for free and absurdly the tech team becoming CEO and then purchasing the company. So wild ride, never never intended to do that. But along the way, you know, obviously Kevin, Kevin and I are together as well as a lot of other great team members. We're really trying to use brain FM as a tool to help people be their best self, their best best version of themselves. And while we are doing that consumer you know now we get to do it in the medical space and help people have best health that they can have. And that's something that's we're really excited about is
Eric Rieger 34:40
awesome stories it y'all linked by passion, which I find really endearing for the process.
Ken Brown 34:46
So we're doing so at at atrantil and certainly with the practice and everything we really like to discuss what is the what is our collective why what is my why? What is the the companies Why if we're all on the same way, what I'm just hearing, I'm just writing little notes here. I'm like, wow, both you guys driven by the Why have you have this knowledge, Kevin, that you are like, wow, this could really, it's so I come from this music background and I understand this and I can do this. And Dan, you have this incredible like, this is where I came from I, I need to I'm it's not a money thing. It's a The why is how do we get everyone else on the same page. And we hooked up because we're in that car that one day, we were being shuttled to the to the meeting we're going to and the why was wow, that sounds like that could really help my patients and you're like, the more I think about I think I can and I like when the y's align. And you can move that forward and get more people doing it. The beauty of brain FM is that you can teach people that they are capable of their Why suddenly they can unleash that. So when I meet with so many people that have irritable bowel syndrome, and which is associated or small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, SIBO, Crohn's, ulcerative colitis where they're kind of consumed by negative thoughts and anxiety. And there's that brain gut access, that Kevin's nodding, because he's like, that's definitely the cool part. So I want to affect the brain by protecting the gut. Kevin knows so much about the brain that we realised we're kind of meeting there were so I think that this collective why if we could expand this circle of why into okay, we now know that am Serge and envision is getting the why they're like, yes, we can do this. And now we can get the why going with the doctors going, we all can have this collective why, which is one thing, how do we get more people to have a better experience in healthcare and ultimately, collectively improve the health of everyone? You guys are doing it to the brain? I'm trying to do it through the budget.
Unknown Speaker 36:58
So yeah, well, that's.
Ken Brown 37:03
So I love hearing that story. I didn't know that. I mean, we've talked to me for hours and hours. I did not know that's a really, really cool story.
Eric Rieger 37:10
Just a brief primer on, on how we all linked up there, because you just barely hinted at it is we you and I had met in snow skiing together, you have snowboarding on snow skiing, had a great time. And then we decided to ride together for the summer meeting. Yep, to the same group and share a shuttle. No pretence at all, we just got hopped into conversation about how are things going. And it probably took about 10 miles or a 70 mile ride. Before we determine, wait a second, there's something there is something here. Yeah. And so anyway, that's that's just my short version on how I showed up here today.
Ken Brown 37:49
I love it a lot.
Unknown Speaker 37:50
So I guess without further ado, should we talk about what's here and talk about some of the science?
Unknown Speaker 37:54
Yeah. Finally, all right,
Ken Brown 37:57
now we're gonna get into some cool stuff. All right, this is if you are, if you're listening to this, get a pen and a piece paper out because this is cool, cool, cool stuff. This is not just listening to music, I love that.
Unknown Speaker 38:09
And so the trick with this is always to make it you know, straightforward and understandable. And hopefully, you won't need pen and paper to understand what's going on here. So simply put, a lot of neural activity activity is rhythmic, right? These rhythms, slow, fast, everything in between. And the rhythms in the brain support, perception, cognition, and action, essentially, those three things that the brain does. One that you may have heard of, are delta waves when you're sleeping, that's probably you know, the most common widely known one. But their rhythms are all sorts of different speeds that support pretty much you know, anything that you're doing in your daily life. And the idea behind brain FM, is, it's music that's specifically engineered to drive these rhythms in the brain called neural oscillations, or if you'd like brainwaves to drive your brainwaves in targeted ways, right? To support whatever you need to be doing, right. And so for example, we know what brainwaves in the focus brain look like? They're at particular speeds in particular regions. And so what we do is we say, okay, let's use the odd, let's use the auditory system as input for neuromodulation. Right? And so how can we use an auditory input to drive your brainwaves into the state that we know supports focus, right? And so we figured out that out and that's what we have our paper that's coming out shortly on, but because the principle is using the auditory system as a neuromodulator it's not just a one trick pony, right? So we can support focus, we can support relaxation, we can support sleep, and now we're discovering that we can, you know, support people going under and waking up from anaesthesia as well. So it's really it's a delivery method for you know, driving your brain into whatever state you need for, for what you need to be doing. Right. And so again, this is, you know, it's what we call functional music, which we'd like to make the distinction between that and, you know, what you might call art music with a capital A. Right? Which is that, you know, in modern times with artists and albums, there's a conception of music as something that primarily exists for self expression and for beauty and to connect to your audience. Well, things haven't always been that way, right. And if you go back 500 years, 1000 years, it's not about artists and albums. It's about music that is designed to do things for people, for example, you know, a lullaby a lullaby is a perfect example of ancient functional music. Because the point of a lullaby is not to sound beautiful. Maybe you also want that, but the point of a lullaby is to put a baby to sleep. Right? And similarly, you know, you have music that was used to help people do physical labour, right? Or music to march to if you're in an army, right? And the point of marching music is not to sound beautiful is to make people walk in lockstep, right. Another good example is dance music, right? And dance is a perfect example of this principle of rhythms in the brain and rhythms in the world. Which by the way, is called entrainment. That's a concept that you may be familiar with, which is, rhythms in the brain reflect rhythms in the world?
Ken Brown 41:22
Yeah, what threw me off a little bit. Sorry.
Eric Rieger 41:24
Just to catch up on everyone on on the vocabulary. I want to hear your just brief explanation of neuromodulation Sure, I've entrainment is another might have been one more, but just just to keep everybody on the same? Sure.
Unknown Speaker 41:35
Sure. Sure. So neuromodulation is just a broader term that refers to, you know, inducing a change in the brain through an external stimulus, right. It could be a magnetic field, it could be electrical currents. But it could also be sensory stimulation, right? In this case, auditory system. And treatment is a form of neuromodulation, where you're providing a rhythmic input to induce a rhythmic response from the brain, right. And so you have this oscillating system, neural circuits of the resonance frequencies. And so you're basically pushing on this neural circuit in a rhythmic way and a response in a rhythmic, rhythmic way. And because the brain has this property of training to things around it, then you can drive the rhythms in the brain to help support what you need to do. Okay, which is, yeah, we're where I started. Yeah, it's pretty straightforward and simple example of that coming back around as dance, right? That's one that everybody understands. You hear the rhythm and the music and your body moves to that. And that's entrainment and what's called the auditory motor system, right? And also, by the way, if you want to know, how quickly does it take for brain FM to kick in, which is a question that we always get asked, I asked back, Well, how long does it take between when you hear dance music? And when you want to dance? Yeah, right? The answer is, it depends on how closely you're attending to the music, right? It depends on how intense the beats are. And all that's true for brain FM as well. But you know, the real answers, maybe 30 seconds, maybe a minute, if you're not really listening, if you're in the right mood, maybe 10 seconds, right. But that's the sort of timescale and ballpark timescale when you're talking about rhythmic entrainment in the auditory system. And interesting thing about dance music, right, is that the functional properties of dance music are completely dissociated from the aesthetic properties of dance music, right? Yes, you can listen to music that sounds terrible, and still makes you want to dance. And that's a perfect demonstration of functional versus art in music, right? And so what we've done in brain FM is we've said, okay, you know, we know entrainment is the thing, but instead of, you know, relatively slow rates that you will bounce to, you know, you can actually drive the brand very fast rates that support focus, or very slow rates that support sleep. And that's anything in between, and everything in between. And that's the principle.
Unknown Speaker 43:47
What's really cool about it as well is in addition to all the things that Kevin is saying, we're also able to do it through sound, where it's something that is not obtrusive, or it stops you from what you're doing. So for example, in focusing, it's it's not something that you have to watch, or like meditation, you meditate, and then you focus this is as long as you are doing the activity. So what's nice about it is usually our work is visual, to why adding music to it, it's allowing us to focus better and work like we normally would. And the same thing in hospitals, right? And in the clinic that we were just at is this is music that you put on top. And it doesn't take away from the experience. People can still you know, hear what you're saying instructions, it's not something that they're putting over their eyes. One interesting thing about music compared or sound compared to light is what like one out of 18,000 people are epileptic,
Unknown Speaker 44:47
right, the light can occasionally induce epilepsy, but music will not. Yeah, sound induced epilepsy is not only extremely rare, but it's also not due to rhythms. It's triggered by you know, things that have to do with your past. So the sound of a car crash or something might trigger trigger epilepsy for sound. Whereas with light, it's a very automatic thing where once you hurt once you hit a certain frequency of light flashing, you know, if you have that kind of photosensitive photosensitive epilepsy, it'll set you off. Not so with music, so it's extremely safe. Yeah, so,
Unknown Speaker 45:19
so sound is really this perfect medium to apply to things that we're already doing, whether it's relaxing, sleeping, or going through surgery, but it's also something that's incredibly safe. Because we have all of these things that we've evolved to have that protect us from sound, the worst thing that can happen is maybe it's too loud. That that's, you know, very, that's, that's actually not even probably going to happen because of the way commercial headphones are made. You know, it's a very safe thing to add to your regimen.
Eric Rieger 45:51
So what do y'all call this particular technology? And then how did you arrive at this technology? Because I know it's not the first iteration of utilising sound, you've even said, you know, it's been years ago from the lullaby to now. So what's this call that we're bringing in uses? Sure.
Unknown Speaker 46:06
Well, I think we like to call it brain FM. It's it Yeah, it is. It is unique. We have, you know, patents on the process that we use to make this music because it is so unique, you know. Let's see. There are other methods of training the brain for example, you could flashlights that people like we were just saying, but you can't get your work done. If you're having lights flashed at you. Right? There's there's a conflict there. So Sam is really a great way to do it. Yeah, I don't think we have a really good name for the technology
Ken Brown 46:40
there. Let me ask you a quick question. So I'm somebody that I own a different centre someplace else, like, oh, yeah, I heard this podcast you know what we're gonna do? I love Coldplay, so I'm gonna make everybody listen to Coldplay as they get in there. Because Coldplay does it for me. Explain the difference?
Unknown Speaker 46:55
Yeah. So before we do that, I think so obviously, brain FM as a company, you know, we do have patents like, like Kevin saying, I would just say that every time we the reason why we call it brain FM is because every time we learn more, we actually grow and build and change brain FM. So it's an ever evolving thing, where brain FM was five years ago, and where it is now. And our understanding of the brain and even the music we produce different. As far as this of what we're making for health care. This is really brain health, that we're really focusing on as a pursuit, and it is different than our consumer product. And Kevin can share some of the things that we arrive to it. And it actually it's funny, because Coldplay was one of the control groups that we did that dimension. So when you when we first started talking about, hey, I think this is something that we could do. I think I share that story of my girlfriend. We were saying, I remember telling Kevin, I was like, Hey, can we make relax? We just play a relaxed music. And he's like, Yeah, we could but let me check to check. And he started finding all this free search, which I'll just like Kevin say, but it was just incredibly exciting. Because from that start, we were able to eventually build a product that blew the wall to off everything that existed so far, we can see that with science.
Eric Rieger 48:14
So that's that's kind of where I was going. So I when you and I very first got engaged with this topic and what brain FM was. I think one of the first questions that can ask is how does this compare to some someone utilising binaural? Beats? Yeah, and then that that's really kind of what I was getting at is that that is more or less in, correct me if I'm wrong, but static in where it is. And just as you described, y'all have been evolving and finding new applications for brain FM proprietary applications. Whereas by neuro is a great discovery. However, y'all are evolutions
Unknown Speaker 48:55
on Yeah, I'll start and then I'll give it to Kevin. So you know, this, like we were saying before, it has been tried to be done forever. Sure, functional music lullabies those existed for 1000s of years. And then a lot of people are familiar with music that they they play to elicit a response. So when you go to spas, you hear the waterfalls and the relaxing, you know that because you're trying to have a relaxing experience. What we've done is we've taken that to another level. Now, to your point, binaural beats isochronic tones, those have existed for a long time. And that's when for anyone that hasn't heard about this is when you play one frequency in one year and one frequency in the other. And they basically combined in your brainstem, right? And that creates entrainment in your brain. But it's not as precise as what we're looking for. It still has effects but they're diminishing or they're not. They're not as rigorous as we'd like to know that this is 100% effective. So when we were creating brain FM, it was well this is something that's there but how How could we make it more effective? And Kevin, I'll share in a second, but the difference between is instead of modulating frequencies, we actually modulate amplitude. Mm hmm. Kevin, you want to explain that?
Unknown Speaker 50:12
Sure. Yeah. So I can talk about by now binaural beats specifically. And Dan is absolutely right, you have two different frequencies coming in the two different ears. The difference between those frequencies creates beating in the brainstem, essentially, that if you were to take two sine waves of slightly different frequencies, sum them together, what you would end up with is amplitude modulation, basically interference between two very similar assignments. So for example, I've 400 hertz and one year 410 Hertz in the other ear, in the brainstem, I'm creating a 10 hertz amplitude modulation, okay, right dude with some of those things. Now, the issue? Well, there's several issues. One is that the brainstem was limited and how strongly it can pass those modulations up to the cortex, right, the cortex has a high level of the brain where all the interesting stuff happens. So even if you have, you know, it doesn't matter how loud those frequencies are in your two years, the the level of modulation created in the brainstem will cap out at a certain amount. But if you put that modulation directly in in each ear, instead of relying on the brainstem to produce it, you can get a much stronger response from cortex, right. So in terms of the strength of entrainment, and binaural beats is also about entrainment right? It's about producing this modulation, that then in trance cortex, the strength of that entrainment is much less than binaural beats because it is produced, because modulations produced by the brain instead of existing in the sound signal, right? A practical issue is that with binaural beats, you're limited to listening to tones. So when you listen to binaural beats, what you're hearing is, and one year and and the other year, I love that song. Exactly. No one loves that. Right? And so what we've done in brain FM is we found a way to insert modulation into music, right? So that it's enjoyable, and you get those effects as well. Right?
Unknown Speaker 52:04
Yeah. And we can we can send over a demo if you want to stitch it to the end of this podcast so people can see here. Well,
Eric Rieger 52:11
that's honestly one of the coolest parts is is the fact that y'all can y'all can put the effective portion of brain FM inside the genre that anybody wishes to listen to. That's right. It's one of the coolest things because I was even asking you when you were first describing Oh, is it? Is it country to go to sleep? And is it hard rock to wake up? And he said, actually, it's whatever you want, for anything that you want. And I thought that was the coolest explanation, because you're not limited to some type of genre, just simply because that's how you need to feel.
Unknown Speaker 52:42
Absolutely. And to be clear, you know, most music is rhythmic, and therefore most music has amplitude modulation in it. But it's not targeted in the way that brain FM is, right. It's it's a byproduct of the artists doing their thing. So if you're listening to Coldplay, right, they have a mix of whole notes and half notes and whatever, you know, musical things are going on and do that they have amplitude modulation at all sorts of different frequencies happening, right? If they're at, you know, 120 BPM and they're playing whole notes, then they have, you know, one hertz or whatever it is maybe two hertz. But with brain FM, what we're saying is, okay, we know the frequency that we want the brain to hit. So we're going to directly insert amplitude modulations, at exactly 16 hertz, or, you know, whatever it happens to be, and make those the dominant modulation frequency in the brain. Whereas with music, you have all these overlapping frequencies. And you know, the, the target is to make it sound beautiful not to drive the brain into a certain solitary state. Right. And so, by the way, with Coldplay, we did this very large online study, we had 200 participants in this, we gave them a standard questionnaire called the profile of mental states looking at, among other things, tension and relaxation. And we had Coldplay as a control. We had brain FM, we also had another piece of music very fascinating. That was made by music therapists and was hailed as the most relaxing song in the world, it was used in multiple studies, it was shown to reduce blood pressure to similar extent as benzodiazepines to for people undergoing surgery. And we found that we beat that would be called Les by a mile. And we beat that song as well. You know, error bars were small relative to the difference between them highly, statistically significant. So that was very cool to see.
Ken Brown 54:21
So the last part again, one more time, because it's based on science. And what I said Coldplay, kind of jokingly because I like Coldplay, and that didn't realise that they actually studied that. And so this was compared to a scientifically or supposedly scientifically derived music considered the most relaxing music in the world and I guess you paid yourself you like you went you just went immediately to the deepest water you could find
Unknown Speaker 54:46
that's exactly right. We we did the hardest tests, we always try to give ourselves the hardest test. By the way, it's a track called weightless by Marconi union is extremely Google will you'll find it was CNR CNN article written about it, and we said okay, if this is the king of the hill, We're going to beat it. And we did. Wow.
Unknown Speaker 55:03
Yeah. And we do that from some of the things that Kevin was talking about earlier, which were there's online experiments. So think about it, you know, we can actually test 1000s of people, and we know all the knobs to play. So not only are we doing these neural phase locking these amplitude modulation, we actually do other things in music, like 3d sound. So when you're in some of our relaxing music, we actually shift some of the sound from right here to left here, almost like you're in a hammock, sometimes, we have different BPM rates, different kinds of genres specific to make you feel more relaxed. And as we learn more about you, and what you prefer, we can actually have even a better response. And, you know, getting back on track on some of the stuff that we're doing with you guys, and hopefully more people in the future. We started looking at this from a science based procedure and saying, Okay, this is what the world says is the most relaxing music in the world. Let's beat it. And I believe it would be like, like 50 50% or 5%. It's a pretty pretty demonstrable, especially compared to,
Ken Brown 56:08
just to clarify that was like, first iteration, you guys continually improve what you're going
Unknown Speaker 56:13
Oh, yep, yep. And now it just comes down to so we have improved sense and now it's comes down to doing clinical trials with real people to say okay, we've improved as much as we can outside the environment. Now let's make it better in the environment and continually test
Eric Rieger 56:29
one or something else that that you mentioned, Kevin, that I feel like is, is maybe even just glossed over as we're talking about comparing it to Coldplay or or waitlist, is you said benzodiazepines also. So now you're talking about comparing sound to a drug and a bit of die as a pain, of course, is what we use, if you're curious, that's verse said, that's out of and that's value. These are things that people religiously take for, as an analytic try to stop that. So the fact that you didn't just go to the deepest water and sound, you went straight to the heart of what we use and anaesthesia, chemically to allow people to alleviate their anxiety, and that's quite measurable.
Ken Brown 57:11
Alright, so let's bring that up because you said religiously tape. But the reality is, is that benzodiazepines have an extremely addictive potential as well. Correct. So people that suffer from anxiety and using those medications to try and get through that there are tremendous rich,
Eric Rieger 57:27
so in before we hit on that just just the array of benzo and benzo like drugs. I mean, it doesn't just stop with those three, you're talking also about Xanax, Ambien, senesce, those, all of those fit at some level to be maximum GABA agonist. So when you say that what you have by comparison is something that's effective. We don't know this today. But potentially y'all could be unlocking a way for people not to be dependent upon taking these drugs to to get better sleep to alleviate their anxiety, etc. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 58:02
I mean, this is definitely a road that we see could be possible. Obviously, there's a lot of work to be involved involved right now. But we do have testimonials of users that, like reach out and they say, Hey, I haven't slept well in 10 years. And I tried brain FM a lot last night, and I've been on Ambien, I've been on Lunesta, and I slept better than any drug I've ever taken. Right. And now we're I'm not here saying that this is a cure or treatment. Yeah. But this could be an alternative approach where maybe you can take less trucks, or you can do this before you try drugs, or, you know, whatever. And, you know, I think that gives someone more control and freedom.
Ken Brown 58:41
As someone who tries to incorporate different lifestyle modulations to improve my life to try and incorporate these different things with my patients. When we talk about let's talk about benzodiazepine addiction, we can get into the fact that benzos works similar to alcohol. So I work with a lot of patients with liver disease, and we try and get over that. Well, the beauty that I really like about this is that just like you said, when you meditate to try and focus, you are meditating, and then you're going to try and have focus. What I love is I'll actually stack this kind of stuff. I will and Eric's a big sauna fan also. And so I will put my brain FM on I will go into the sauna, and I will do breathing exercises all at once. And I love is absolutely you know, it's I'm, I feel like I'm focusing on my breath. I know that I'm getting that neuromodulation that's going to happen anyways and start stimulating that area to try and do that. And I'm getting the benefits of the sauna that's there. And so just we're not saying that one thing does something or other but when we start on my lifestyle modifications, this is like one of the easiest as the other stuff you need a sauna like when I tell my patients I'm like you know sauna therapy is good. I don't have access to it. Okay, do you let's do some breathing and some meditation. I can't I'm super busy and whatever. Okay, how about just putting some headphones on? Yeah. How about that? Let's start with that and see what happens.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:11
And it's something that, you know, one of the reasons why I was so attracted to the company in the beginning was, it isn't just for, you know, people that it is for everyone. It doesn't actually matter if you speak English or not, none of our none of our music is created with lyrics. And one thing I think we glossed over is actually we have in house composers that are makeup, that's gonna be my next question. Yeah. So we have people that have toured with some of the greatest bands ever, which, you know, I don't know if we can disclose, but some really great talented musicians. And they're, they're taking this in making this from a functional approach, where it's music that sounds great, it's music that has all the scientific effects, and all the knobs turned the right way to have the effect we're trying to, you know, get for the user. But it's also not necessarily music, that is going to be your favourite song. Because that's not the goal, right? The goal is to make an effect that can be measured in your brain, and is not just sometimes it's every time, whether you're trying to relax, you're trying to sleep, you're trying to focus,
Unknown Speaker 1:01:13
and it's music that will sit comfortably in the background. So for example, with our focus music in particular, you know, a lot of people don't realise that. If I'm a music producer, normally, my job is to grab your attention. My job is to make music punchy, and make you sit up and distract you from whatever you're trying to do. Right. And so we've we've flipped the script on that, and we say, Okay, well, we know the tricks they're using to make music punchy and grabbing your attention. Let's do the opposite. You know, what can we do to make music still sound good and be entertaining, but help you work by not distracting you? Right? And because we have a different target than everybody else who ended up making different music than everybody else.
Eric Rieger 1:01:50
So figuring this out, you some people say they're an audio file, I would say that You are the supreme audio file doctor. Yeah, no, no. But not not only that, you also play guitar. And we talked about this briefly yesterday. So when you have when when y'all team up with your composers to come in house to build stuff? Just just how does it happen? How do y'all know what sounds good for it to match together? And you're like that that'll work here? I mean,
Unknown Speaker 1:02:19
absolutely well about it. They're much better musicians than I am. For starters, my job is to annoy the heck out of our musicians by saying, that's a bit too good. That's, uh, you know, that that melody that you made, it's too catchy, you know, oh, that that percussive part as normal music, it would be totally awesome. Yeah, right now, you know, we're not trying to grab people's attention. And so just sort of to remind them of the science and the target and that kind of thing. But,
Eric Rieger 1:02:47
so what was the session? Like for them? Are they there for like, four hours, and they're cutting one track? Or?
Unknown Speaker 1:02:52
Oh, they make enormous quantities of music. They're so good at it. In terms of a session, so they work in Ableton, you know, okay, yeah. So they have DAWs we have proprietary software that plugs into Ableton that helps us layer the science on top of music, essentially, that's what what's happening. And the principles of composition they use from the ground up, are meant meant to support whatever mental state right? So, you know, even though it was talking about modulation, that's the layer that's added on at the end, essentially, but they'll start from a place of, okay, we want to make things fun, but not too exciting. You know, we want to make things slightly repetitive so that they'll blend into the background. We want to, you know, not have a bunch of symbols and bright distracting things, you know, maybe we want to slightly lopat, you know, bring up the bass and cut down the treble, so it's not to distract people. So they have all sorts of production tracks, that, again, are pretty much the opposite of what you'd normally do if you're a pop composer.
Eric Rieger 1:03:45
And so for those who just listening, you said Ableton in DAW that you're basically saying that they use a digital audio workstation exactly when they're collaborating from I'm assuming all over? Yes. And to do that, okay.
Ken Brown 1:03:57
Let me ask one quick question. I use the term we have proprietary software to integrate the science into the music. And so like as a, as a clinician, I can competently look at my patients and say, it doesn't really matter what you're listening to. It's the science has been built into that just choosing what music you like.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:16
Exactly, right. Okay. And that's why brain FM works on top of pretty much any genre because it's about layering the science on top of the music, right?
Unknown Speaker 1:04:24
Yeah. So from a non musical side, I like to think of metaphor as a skyscraper. Right? So imagine you have a skyscraper where you have, you know, the structure of the skyscraper, right? You have the different floors, and then you have the facade, right? And what happens is that the really important things about the skyscraper is really the structure and how it's built and how the floor is how strong the floors are, right? That's actually all of the science that we're putting into it. And the facade of the skyscraper, whether it's it's black, or white, or class or not, is the genre that we applied. Really At the end, right because it doesn't we can make the different different sounds of all these different kinds of music and how it is expressed. But it still has all the core technology is really holding the skyscraper making it strong and eliciting that effect in your brain
Eric Rieger 1:05:15
is one of the coolest parts. I really do just because you can, like I said earlier, I'll reiterate it's people can just choose what type of music What style of music they wish to enjoy and still get the benefit. Exactly. So it's really really cool.
Ken Brown 1:05:29
Yeah, I mean, obviously, I'm a huge believer I now I'm a bigger believer. I now actually understand it. I'm just been doing it and going wow, this stuff works. Yeah, but now I'm like, wow, okay. Um, how many times when you're making music does somebody want more cowbell?
Unknown Speaker 1:05:49
Oh, all the time? I'm always advocating for more cowbell, right. No, I'm my job is to say less cowbell. Less.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:57
very distracting events.
Eric Rieger 1:05:59
Do you ever cut you ever cut time with any of you musicians in and I wish
Unknown Speaker 1:06:03
I'm not I'm not at their level now. They wouldn't
Unknown Speaker 1:06:06
have been very, very busy on other things.
Eric Rieger 1:06:08
Dances know what to do here.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:11
Take me an hour to do what they do in a minute. Yeah,
Eric Rieger 1:06:14
no, that's, that's very, very cool. Oh, it'll come back to me.
Ken Brown 1:06:19
Okay. Well, I was just gonna say, I mean, I find it really fascinating. You know, there's that I listened occasionally to it to the podcast how I built this. Here these people were that but the story that came into it. To me that's super fascinating. That's why I love talking to guys like you getting the history I did not know that history. I love that where your emotional drive guide you and your past where you're going your intellectual desires with your ability to incorporate the music brought us together. Like I don't think that or maybe it would be just a wouldn't be as amazing as it is. But the the union of your guys's circles coming together, and then doing this and the ability to have that. I'm listening to it. And I'm like, man, they're just getting warmed up. Oh, this is gonna be the standard of care in our field.
Eric Rieger 1:07:15
100%. And another thing to consider is somebody wants to utilise brain FM, it's not in before we get into how to find brain FM, etc. Desired equipment to listen to it on. You've got everything from noise cancelling headphones, you've got earbuds, one of the bone rockers called that we use. Well, we
Ken Brown 1:07:36
were using these yesterday, which is the the these are well, these are actually mine radios. Arrow Plex shockwaves are applied shockwaves, which is really interesting because they actually don't go in your ear, they actually vibrate the what can you explain really quick how these work?
Unknown Speaker 1:07:53
Sure. So the bone conduction devices. And the idea is that you can transmit sound by vibrating your skull essentially into the cochlea, which is the organ of hearing. And you can bypass the eardrum essentially what's happening. And it's fascinating that they work as well as they do because the the transfer function, the skull imposes his spectral shift on the music. And so what they've done with those headphones is that they've shifted the spectrum in the opposite direction. So after being filtered by the skull, you hear music as it should be heard, which is fascinating. I hadn't used them before yesterday, I'm totally sold on them. I
Eric Rieger 1:08:30
had never seen them either in the patients seem to love that. And conveniently it allowed them to lay easily on their side. Yes, they weren't obstructive,
Unknown Speaker 1:08:38
and to hear what's going on around you, you're important. So yeah, you're
Eric Rieger 1:08:42
exactly right. We were still able to communicate ask them appropriate questions, but they were if we weren't engaged with the patient in conversation, they were immediately back into utilising the the sound yes to the benefit. Exactly.
Ken Brown 1:08:56
I discovered these because my partner Dr. Adnan Bader, who works with us great gastroenterologist, he was wearing him and I'm like, what, what is that? Oh, I read this article, read this article that the earbuds they trap bacteria and people are getting you can have this potential to alter your microbiome in your ear and he doesn't have just this I do this and now i i bought it for my father my uncle's my business. We just bought a bunch of them and just mailed on all his family members. And I was like, I'm in I'm just like, classic Amazon Prime addict. I was like, what do they call like? I've already ordered it. I'm just like, you know, bought like, because I know I'm gonna lose some so I bought like three
Eric Rieger 1:09:33
it's very cool. So what is the best way for lay person while we are getting things set up in the in the clinical trials, etc. To learn more and engage with brain FM?
Unknown Speaker 1:09:43
Sure, so someone can go to our commercial app, which is brain.fm or website are iOS and Android and download our apps. We give everyone a three day free trial to experience brain FM for themselves. I always recommend for trying it for focusing if you can, but also just relax extra sleep, finding what works best for you. And again, we're so confident in our technology that that's why we give three days for free. Because we want people to experience it and integrate this into their lifestyle.
Eric Rieger 1:10:15
Fantastic. I mean, it's really, really cool technology top to bottom. I'm just so excited. Y'all came down in the we had these kinds of responses that we were able to replicate. But I will say something, which I thought was really funny whenever we did our very first experience with allowing the patients to relax, and then wake up y'all sent Ken and I, these gigantic briefcases of all these headphones. Yep. And we were trying them. I think for three weeks or two weeks, by the time we decided to check in via email with with a Dan. And so I was on my hair actually. Yeah, that's I tell you lost all your hair.
Ken Brown 1:10:55
Oh.
Eric Rieger 1:10:58
And they, so basically, Dan, and Kevin wrote to us, and they asked, How are things going? And of course,
Ken Brown 1:11:06
we'll hold on these are really nice headphones. Oh, yeah. It came in these like crazy cases, which like gun cases. Yeah. They're like, like, and people that like, have guns. Yeah. Oh, that's a such and such.
Eric Rieger 1:11:18
Yeah. I thought it was a badass case. If that's all you said. But these were all pre programmed noise cancelling headphones. Probably a few 100 bucks apiece, I don't know. They looked really cool. But so they asked, How are things going? And you and I already do, they're going well, and we decided to write back. They're going awesome. And I can't remember exactly verbatim what it was. But
Unknown Speaker 1:11:40
like, can we get more headphones? Because we gave them all away?
Ken Brown 1:11:42
No. Was it? It's working great. Patients love the headphones, please send more very polite way you're like, huh, we can do that. But that wasn't
Eric Rieger 1:12:00
these were not single use headphones. But we quickly bonded at lead in I think that Kevin realised that no, we are oftentimes bullshit. Yeah.
Ken Brown 1:12:11
I'm glad that they saw that pretty much everybody we work with this fellowship. Everybody, everybody. Yeah, maybe it's a Texas thing. It can be
Eric Rieger 1:12:22
but I thank y'all so much for coming down. And being part of embracing everybody endo centre. I think that I really think that the staff enjoyed the fact that y'all are on something. So cutting edge. So innovative yet it means enough to y'all to come and just really set yourself inside the environment, feel what it's like. And thank you all so much for doing that, that
Unknown Speaker 1:12:45
we've learned. We've learned so much. It's been wonderful.
Ken Brown 1:12:48
My, my feeling is that your passion to see how this can actually help people is fantastic. And that's why everybody saw it. Yesterday, you were talking with the staff. The nurses came up to me afterwards. They're like, but like that guy owns this business. And it's like, yeah, but it's he like is legitimately wanting to see how this can affect general health care in this environment. And it's the same passion that we have. You guys have I just like being around that kind of energy
Eric Rieger 1:13:19
almost forgot something. There's some really important and you brought it up yesterday, and I had never heard it before. And this is for all the practitioners that are listening and could be interested. You had mentioned specifically that the sound was now comparable to another drug to essentially possibly cut down on wakeup time, maybe as it pertains to pro football. So let's talk a little bit about that. Because that's actually a really, really cool feature that I didn't know until you said yesterday. Sure,
Unknown Speaker 1:13:45
sure. Sure. What I'd mentioned is that it was my understanding that propofol was an agent that had very few reversal agents, but one of the things that does reverse the effects of propofol is methylphenidate. methylphenidate, of course, also known as Ritalin is something that's used to treat ADHD. And of course, brain FM's bread and butter is treating focus or aiding focus, particularly in people with ADHD. And so we're speculating that there might be, you know, something going on there in terms of the mechanism of action in the brain of our focus music that might work particularly well for propofol.
Eric Rieger 1:14:23
So knowing that, and it is can only be considered anecdotal to this point. But what we had yesterday were a couple of patients that we had to carry heavier. And I tried to describe that as we're doing that from case to case to case. But then we had to carry heavier or in other words, I'm using more propofol than normal and the amount of time from the time that kids finish with the procedure to our time to go and wake up. Normally, I would expect that patient to take a little longer to be fully arousal. That really wasn't our experience. And there were even those times that I would show you it's Look, I'm just not going to try to physically arouse or engage the patient. Let's see what happens when we get up to the pacu, the recovery area. And you can say you can even attest to it, but patients just woke up very smoothly, there was no wait time, by the time the recovery nurse was there to take it. The patient was ready to engage, talk, discuss if they wanted something to drink, and they're well on their way to having the IV D seed, as well as getting out of the end of centre, that doesn't just benefit the patient that benefits the person who brought the patients and now they're not waiting longer. And the endo centre or surgery suite, whomever it is, it's caring for this patient, they've now got less time occupied by patient that could be used for someone else who may need it. Or you might actually have to spend as long doing all the cases. All right. So I thought that was fascinating that that was the postulated idea that
Unknown Speaker 1:15:59
absolutely and with what we know about how protocol affects oscillations in the brain, there's a theoretical basis for why this would work as well. So I think it works on all levels. We'll have to see if that's actually the case. But I think there's a good chance that there's something real there. And as you say, it's a win win win win for everybody all around.
Ken Brown 1:16:15
Yeah. So I mean, you heard it here first. I mean, when we get the study finalised, and when the study gets published, it'll be pretty groundbreaking, pretty cool. And if you're listening to this, and if you happen to be somebody in GI a or an am surge, or envision or somebody that has an interest in this, you're hearing it, we have already shown on a pilot study that the patient has a better experience, the doctor has a better experience because it is a patient that comes in the CRNA has a better experience, post op the centre movement, it is literally a win win win. So wow, this is I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm excited to incorporate this on a daily basis. And I
Unknown Speaker 1:16:55
think the coolest thing is it's super approachable. So it's not something as we said in the beginning, that it's another drug or another thing you have to do that's scary. It's Hey, if you're in a brand new environment, a lot of things going on that is scary. But what is one thing that everyone is already familiar with? It's music, it's just music 2.0 with science involved, that helps have these effects. So the people that are willing to try it, it's going to be a very high likelihood, and they're going to get the effects then what we're trying to do
Ken Brown 1:17:23
if there's one thing that I really liked about this was Kevin's comment where he's telling probably some super accomplished musicians. Hey, that's a little too catchy. Can you tone it down a bit? Cuz like I stayed up all night doing that.
Eric Rieger 1:17:37
Yeah, it'll be I'll save the the awesome tracks that you can't use anyway.
Unknown Speaker 1:17:41
I'm terrible with
Ken Brown 1:17:44
money. You're like yeah, no.
Eric Rieger 1:17:49
Well, that is awesome. Kevin. Dan, thank you so much for joining us today. Brain FM for lay people soon to be for healthcare providers. And this is episode 64. Please like and share. As always check shownotes will have all the details how to connect with brain FM, Dan and Kevin and as well as some examples I think that we'll be able to incorporate and references hopefully you're updated in nature when that publishes absolutely all this
Ken Brown 1:18:19
is real. So if you're a provider, gastroenterologist, ophthalmologist and orthopaedic surgeon, anybody that does these different procedures as an outpatient basis. Take a look at this. If you're somebody who has anxiety, if you're somebody who has trouble sleeping, take a look at this. If you're somebody that knows anybody that has either some attention issues, anxiety, sleep issues, everyone can benefit from that. Just share it. Let them know.
Eric Rieger 1:18:45
Alright, that's gonna do it for episode 64. And we'll see you next time.
Unknown Speaker 1:18:48
Bye bye
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Suffering from PTSD, depression, looking to stop smoking? Ken asks Eric about his talk he delivered in New Orleans earlier this month and they discuss the economy of neurotransmission.
With so many therapy clinics now utilizing Ketamine, Psilocybin, MDMA and more, people can actually prepare their bodies for the best experience AND recovery.
This episode of the GCP is set with getting people up to speed on a few current events as well, so LIKE AND SHARE, and THANK YOU for supporting the GCP!
Hello gut check project fans and KB MD health family. I hope that you're having a great day soon to be joined by my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. It's time for episode number 61. And today's episode, I'm just going to ask everyone, no matter what part of the spectrum that you come from, come with an open mind on this episode. This is a fantastic episode very, very informative. Our guest today is Marcus ruark. He is the lead strategist for only one of three licenced medical cannabis companies. Good blend medical cannabis. And yes, that is THC, which is utilised as a medicine for specially designated criterion. And they update it every single year. So September 1, which we just recorded this right before September 1, there's actually a whole new list of medical conditions, which are now legal to be treated by medical professionals. And believe it or not, they have a network of already over 500 positions throughout the state of Texas since 2018, which are licenced and actively dispense medical cannabis. And good blend is one of those companies. So Marcus joins the show today to really answer some fantastic questions. And Marcus's an amazing person in his own right. He's, he's got a an electrical engineering degree from Stanford as well as his master's he served in the US Air Force, he led a team at National Security Agency, the NSA. I mean, this man is no slouch, he came to this profession to this company. By no mistake whatsoever. He simply doesn't want to just do good. He wants to do great by the citizens of Texas and simply help people live a better life. There's a better way for some of the elements out there and he has a very, very strong passion for helping out our veterans and the Veterans Administration. So I don't want to give away everything in the episode because Miko does a much better job of articulating all of that stuff. So let's get to our sponsors, of course are trying to they've been a sponsor for every show and I imagine they always will be because they were created by my co host, Dr. ken brown are trying to get your daily poly phenol is love my tummy, calm, stop the bloating, stop the abdominal discomfort. If you're an athlete, you need paly finos every single day. And I don't know maybe some of us are worried about a virus and I don't know maybe you're interested in things that function is natural zinc on fours. Well, polyphenols are natural zinc ion fours. So anyhow, without saying too much draw your own conclusions at what this awesome natural product can do for you, but go to love my tummy.com load up on your daily polyphenols today. Lovemytummy.com artron deal. And of course, KB m d health.com. You want to learn a little bit more about Dr. Brown learn a bit more about his philosophy. And of course connect with his own branded KVM D health CBD go to KB Md health.com. Use code GCP save 20% off of anything in the store that includes Brock elite that includes the signature packages of CBD artron teal, and rock elite, you can combine the whole thing in there KB Md health.com. Sign up for our newsletters. It's KB MD health is actually growing quite a bit. And we've got some new things in store this fall. So keep in contact with us. And of course do you like great food? Do you like food that tastes awesome? Do you have to sometimes worry about though what kind of diet it fits into? Maybe you're paleo maybe you're gluten free. Of course. I'm going to mention unrefined bakery. They've been a longtime sponsor, unrefined bakery.com go to unrefined bakery. And if you think that just because you suffer from celiac disease, that you can't have an awesome cupcake. Or you can't have some awesome tasting bread or some trail mix that you can trust pie crust, check out unrefined bakery, they My wife has celiac disease This is her go to. And it's just incredible food you'd have no idea that they were all specialty foods to fit specialty diets, unrefined bakery go to unrefined bakery.com you can get 20% off of your entire first order. By using code gut check again your entire first order. So low up on bread load up on pie crust load up on cupcakes, are you selling cupcakes are just incredible. No levy cake, I mean like cake and they got great cakes or cupcakes there and I love the unrefined bakery.com check it out. Use code gut check 20% off your entire first order. Okay. Love those sponsors. they've kept the show going But what really keeps the show going just as much is awesome guests like Marcus ruark coming up next episode number 61
though KB MD health and gut check project fans, I hope you have a great day. It is now time for episode number 61. I am joined by my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. And we got a special guest today, Mr. Marcus ruark. Ken, why don't you go ahead and fill us in.
5:38
So it's gonna be super exciting show. Today we have Marcus ruark. And this is something that is very, very important. It's important for my patients. It's important for anybody that deals with all kinds of diseases, but I'm thrilled to have him here. thrilled to be here. Marcus, thank you so much for coming in Marcus ruark is president of good blend, Texas, which is headquartered in Austin, Texas, and proudly sells cannabis products that are cultivated and produced right here in the Lone Star State as one of only three state licenced medical dispensaries. Now, Marcus, I saw your bio, this is super cool, you have a very interesting background. And prior to joining good blend, you received your electrical engineering degree from Stanford. Then you received your master's degree at Stanford and I keep saying Stanford because Eric and I both have kids which are applying for college. And when I see Stanford, that's the sort of crown jewel that most parents want their kids to go to. And they like tennis players. And they like you received your master's degree at Stanford in management, science and engineering. Following this, you went on to serve as a captain in the US Air Force, where you lead your team in the National Security Agency, followed by advanced Systems Division of us Space Command. That's crazy. Following that, your bio discusses a lot of other really fascinating things that I want to get into. But before we get into that, I want to talk a little bit about what's not in your bio. Okay, tell me about you. Family. What's going on with Marcus?
7:21
Sure. Well, we just had a big week in the ruag family took my daughter to college, which you just alluded to a little bit ago there. She's going to San Diego State nice, pretty excited about that. But also, you know, it's a little bit anxious and first first kid out of the nest, so to speak. So that's exciting. And then my son started up eighth grade first time back in school since spring of his sixth grade year, right when everybody went home for COVID. So very exciting there too, and he's trying out for football. So fingers crossed,
7:49
right on, right on.
7:51
That's a plate right there. And so San Diego State that's Trojans, she's a Trojan Aztecs, Aztecs. Yeah. I'm learning too. Nice. All right, that's a Southern California Nevermind. Sorry.
8:02
So the family, your background, there was this huge section in your bio, we're very clearly you have an entrepreneurial spirit, you have leadership skills, you are willing to push the boundaries a bit and try some different positions technologies. Can you give me what led you up to this?
8:24
Absolutely. So after I got out of the Air Force, I was very interested in joining the the high tech scene that was happening in San Francisco. So did that ride around? Actually not the best time for that because it was right around the bubble here is where there was a big crash back in 2000. But that being said, really got interested in bringing new products to new markets, and bringing new benefits to customers who maybe hadn't seen those benefits before in the past. So very exciting, did a lot of startups founded a lot of companies. And then at some point I crossed over into healthcare so a startup in the healthcare space and it hit me then that as rewarding as I thought it had been doing startups in high tech to do in healthcare it was even more special because not only are you starting a company but you're actually helping people right we were helping doctors treat patients better we were helping patients have better outcomes in their in their hospitals stays. So it was really rewarding. And at some point after that, I was able to join a company called Fluence which you probably saw on the on the resume, but they were in the LED lighting space. And I started there to help out with the customer experience for their customer base. And I learned that the customer base was primarily in three segments, customers who are coming to a growing produce companies who are growing flowers, and then cannabis companies and can imagine which one of the segments was probably the fastest growing it was their cannabis customers and so that was entirely new to me the cannabis world and I as you guys have I dove deeply into it the endocannabinoid system the the benefits of cannabis and learned about cultivation and Creation of products and distribution, all that kind of good stuff. And right around, I guess was the spring of 2017, Texas announced the grant of the first couple of licences for the Texas compassionate use programme. And when, you know, I reached out to one of the companies and say, I think I can help you guys here in Texas. And so I came on board as president of goodwill in Texas at that time.
10:21
And that's fascinating. So I mean, obviously, it was just natural as a natural progression. You ended up seeing that there was a need, it was certainly new to you. Sounds like maybe correct me if I'm wrong, but you're inspired by things that you don't know enough about, but seem intriguing could help people I'm still learning
10:35
and so much to learn in this space still, but but it ends up it's a great match for all that because it's it's technology, right? It's, it's horticulture, and it's it's helping people within today, right was what was what we're here to do is help Texans.
10:48
So it's an electrical engineer, I get that you were drawn to the LED space, but then getting drawn to healthcare and now more of a I mean, what would you describe your position at good blood?
10:59
I, I'm leading the entire Texas team here. Everything from cultivation, to product development, formulation, packaging, distribution, working with physicians, working with patient support groups, so pretty much everything setting strategy product roadmap and trying to build a great culture for the team here.
11:18
So one of the things that we talk about in our company is the why the why the underlying reason why all this is happening, because if you don't have a solid, why then what you're describing, nobody else really will believe in that. But it sounds like you found your y even if you haven't defined your y statement, you found the Y
11:37
Well, I can define it for you. It's we are empowering Texans to find their well being right through natural medicines that our patients say work. And it's, it's, it's so rewarding. Now, we have a we have a group of we have a role the company called mobile wellness coordinators, and these are the folks it's probably one of the hardest jobs at the company, you have to be knowledgeable about cannabis, the endocannabinoid system, talking to patients, so you have to be bit of an extrovert, right? It'll talk to patients. But you also have to drive across the large distances of Texas to deliver medicine to patients doors. So you also have to be a bit of an introvert there to be happy listening to podcasts while you're driving. They have the best job in the company, though, because when they're making that second delivery to a patient, they get to hear how that patient did they could hear the patient testimonials, and they're incredibly rewarding. And it's I feel really almost envious that they get to do this. But they're they're so nice to come back and share their stories with us after they've had these amazing conversations.
12:38
So where are you with the company before they ended up having their first dispense of their certified? Yeah,
12:45
I've been with the company since 2017. We served our first patients in early 2019. Okay, and what
12:52
was it like? What was the anticipation like to get your first patient that had been referred in and and bringing those physicians on board to do that here in a state that didn't do it before?
13:01
Well, I think predict my answer was huge and hugely rewarding. Like I said, it's this, the testimonies we hear are fantastic. And as we've come to market with even a wider set of products, different ratios of CBD to THC, different terpene profiles, were able to help more people were able to give prescribing doctors more choices, and patients more choices on how they how they help themselves.
13:28
But it just seems like it would be a really cool opportunity to paint a picture of how you feel like you're going to be able to deliver something that maybe a physician doesn't feel like they've got a total grasp, because that's why you would offer an alternative. And then now you've recruited them to go now then just a new novel way, but prior to your launch wasn't really necessarily well embraced. How hard is it to get that message and get physicians to want to buy in to do that?
13:54
It is still a challenge today. Sure. And one of the reasons I'm so excited that you invited me here today is because one of my number one missions right now is to try to get the word out to increase awareness. I suspect. We don't have a random text in here right now. But if we grabbed one walked outside in the heat, and ask them if cannabis was legal in the state of Texas, most likely they're gonna say no. And even for the patient groups where it is legal right now, most of them don't know that it's legal. So our number one job right now is creating awareness growing the number of Texans who are aware that they have this treatment available to them. And I really appreciate being on a show like this to help get the word out.
14:32
What I think is so cool is that somebody with your pedigree has chosen to do this and now finding out why you chose to do it, which is you got into healthcare, you had the opportunity to do these, these other companies where it could have just been about financial reward. But once you got in and saw the impact that you can have that then you chose to do this with that message of we're going to empower people to take, take their health over what was your statement again,
14:57
you're going to empower empower them to take charge with Their own wellbeing,
15:01
empower them to take charge of their own well being. That's something that I try to do as a physician all the time. And so many times, it's limited because of the insurance plan because of lack of funding because of lack of efficacy. Sure. So I'm thrilled that Texas decided to do this because we've been waiting to see this happen. I've talked to my colleagues and other states, where medical cannabis is legal. And they tell me about the success that they're having with their patients. As a gastroenterologist, when I looked at, let me just pick a patient population, like my inflammatory bowel disease patients, I'm open to discuss things I I'm more of a functional type person. So I will ask these questions. And if somebody has Crohn's disease, and they're between the ages of 18 to 40, I just say, Are you using cannabis for your health? And they'll stop and be like, yeah, how did you guess? Yeah, I mean, they just go, yeah. And because they're on forums, they're talking. And I said, well, it's pretty exciting, because I think we're headed that way with Texas. And I think that we can make this so that you don't, so that you can have control over this so that you can actually empower your own health with this with products that are meticulously cultivated that have Certificate of analysis that you don't question, which is what good blend is doing. Right. Right.
16:23
Well, the other the other message I'd like to get across and it ties into what you just said, is that it's actually easy to do, it's easy to get into the programme. So right, not only do they do Texans not know what exists, but if they do, they probably think it's incredibly difficult to get a prescription and to get product and to be able to afford it. And that's another message I would like to leave with folks is that it, take a look into it, right? Go to good blend.com because it's actually easy to get signed up and get to be part of the programme.
16:48
Oh, we're gonna get into all of that. I have a feeling I want to like, where do I go? I love I love talking to people that have been there done that, that have degrees, like you have that have seen so many things. I want to know, you know, what Goodwin does where it is. But I think one of the most important things that people have to realise is that you've got very, I've been to a programme and I've met the doctors that showed up to the programme. And I've talked to paediatrician, psychiatrists and pain doctors here in Texas here in Plano, not just I'm not going very far out. And they told me the effects they're having on their patients. And these are smart people, somebody like you, also extremely smart, we start validating this whole industry and start shedding that kind of negative feeling that people have carried over over the years, obviously, other states are a little more advanced. But even my patients today, we had a 65 year old woman that is quite miserable from an autoimmune disease. And she just said flat out, would you care if I started smoking weed, and I'm like, not only do I not care, but I'm going to send you to a doctor because one of your diseases qualifies you, at least right now on this fairly limited set. And we'll talk about the different programmes, which are easy to get into and all these other things. And she just completely was like, You're kidding. I'm like now and these are, then you start briefly talking about ratios. And it's not about you know, smoking yourself, so you can't move on the couch. I just
18:22
want to add to that, because where she is and where she finds herself. And this is why I think what company like good blend really bridges a gap that needs to be bridged. And that is, the reason why she asked or was hesitant to bring up the use of marijuana is because probably up until a certain point she felt shameful and trying to find a solution. And finally, she worked up enough nerve to finally throw it to Ken and say, do you mind if I do? So how long had she been sitting on the fence before she finally worked up the nerve, because we've seen it before. She's not a stranger to the clinic, to work up enough energy to be able to do that. And what I think is great about a company like good blend is stop waiting, we want you to feel better. And there's actually an easy pathway to do. So it's kind of how you see the the access there. Absolutely.
19:10
It's it's one of the reasons that we try to have a vast selection of products that feel a little bit less intimidating. Right? So we'll probably get into that later too. But everything we can do to help folks out I mean, I'm actually kind of feeling bad for this person. Right? Because like you said, How long have you been sitting on that and not sharing that and she could have been helped a lot earlier. So yeah, and Texas is making really good strides there. Every two years. I have a legislative session and every two years we've been expanding the programme so I'm I'm very optimistic.
19:43
It's if you are knowledgeable about this, so Eric and I got heavy into the CBD. Yes. area when CBD was still people were being arrested in Iran a foreigner here Yeah, Marin County. Over in Fort Worth. They were getting arrested. And I'm like I call Eric I'm like there's another person like what are we doing here? endocannabinoid system. This is perfect. And when you start talking about I'm like this person has an Endocannabinoid deficiency. They've got these chronic diseases, we are just putting band aids on all of these things, including pain meds. If we can get their endocannabinoid system back to balance, it is something that they need. If I have an asthmatic that shows up and they're wheezing, and I say you the only thing that that that is allowable under your plan, the only thing that's allowable in this, I'll take it back one second. Simone Biles, oh, yeah. Alright, so Simone Biles, this is and this was shared, I didn't I haven't talked to her. But it was viewed on a couple different articles that seemed pretty credible. It makes sense. Regardless, it different countries have different rules. Japan does not allow ADHD medication to be taken. She's been on ADHD medication for most of her life. So she goes to the Japan Olympics. And nobody's discussing that she couldn't take that it's a banned substance in the country. It's an accepted substance in the Olympic Committee, because it's an exemption, because they understand that. So she goes there. And everybody's like, what she's lost her train of thought and everything. So imagine if you can't get the drug that you need or the product that you need, and it's available right there. But somebody is putting a wall that's right there, if you're an asthmatic, and you're wheezing, and I can't give you ventolin inhaler to open up your Bronco airways because guess what? ventolin and bronchodilators. It has to be an exception. If it's if you're on the Olympics, like you have to get it exempt. Otherwise, it's considered a enhancing thing. There's things like that that are on that. You know that that's why you get NSF certified for different things, right things. So this is one of those deals where I'm like, if you're a diabetic and you need insulin, or if you need Metformin, and you can't get that, when I look at some of my patients, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, a beautiful balance of your endocannabinoid system may correct 90% of what you have going on, and we can take these eight drugs away. That's what I'm excited about.
22:14
Yeah, so I have, I have a theory on this, which is that well, and partly this may end up being preaching to the choir, but it's my understanding that the endocannabinoid system is not well taught in med school, if at all. And if that's true, that means you have to learn it after you graduate. But it also means you may have some scepticism about it, it was only discovered in the 1990s. Yeah, I mean, how can we couldn't do better and discover before them, but that Okay, so it's discovered in the 90s. It's really important, right? And I've heard you guys talk about it a lot. But it is the I call it the it's like the conductor of the symphony. So it is conducting all the other systems in our bodies. And it's telling you that when to get a little louder, or that when to slow down. It keeps everything in balance. And a word you guys use frequently is homeostasis, right? It helps maintain that. And yet I was in a doctor's office the other day with my daughter had to get a COVID test before being allowed to go to San Diego State. And on the wall, this doctor's office you guys probably have to is the systems of the body. Right? It's got the skeletal system nervous system. And I look pretty hard on that poster, it could not find the endocannabinoid system. So to me, that kind of said, everything
23:23
is that surprising. And it's unfortunate because it The end result is what we have now. It just simply becomes ignored. And then it becomes taboo. Because if it's being ignored, then maybe it's not acceptable to talk about and it's not acceptable to talk about then you have patients who are fearful for bringing forth an idea for a solution and then we're just slowing recovery when in fact, I mean, I'm not an advocate saying that THC is going to solve everything for anybody. But that doesn't mean it won't work for someone.
23:51
We've talked about this before that I believe I'm a gastroenterologist I focus on the gastro anthological system. There are neurologists there are endocrinologist cardiologists, we will have an Endocannabinoid ologists because that is something that people have to get on board to get on board with. There's when you like First of all, a quick side note I suggest everybody after this is over go to good blends website that website is great. It is filled has so much information. So much great information about the history about why it became sort of tucked under the rug about how it was manipulated on a political level and then ultimately about how all these other cannabinoids are involved. So it's I don't know if you can't see it, it's way over there. But I purposely put I put a terpene in there we got lemonade being diffused right now so we can stay mentally clear. You know, terpenes being involved in all this. So as an induction as an Endocannabinoid ologists we're going to get to the point where we'll be like okay, well tell me what your Oh perfect. Sounds like You need some assistance with this. This is probably the blend that you need. This is more of you need a more CBD front heavy with immersing terpene to calm down and one thing in the morning. Yes, absolutely. And the fact that it's all natural and and does that.
25:19
You want to repeat that. Just fixed my. We knew it didn't pop right back. I
25:25
know what? No, I just said that. I think an Endocannabinoid ologists will eventually be able to fine tune what people take based on the terpenes. And Jen, and you mentioned,
25:38
you mentioned maybe one thing in the morning, right to get you ready for your day and another thing in the evening to help you get ready for bed.
25:44
Absolutely. And if we could get to that point where people are doing this, then they're like, okay, or as needed. The delivery systems. It's like, Okay, I'm a little overwhelmed right now I'm feeling really anxious. I just did a little something to cut this off. And non addicting all these other things. And Eric can attest to this. When we see these patients and we cringe every single time how many people show up young people. You look at their med list and you're like holy cow that Xanax, that's three different antidepressants. You got a muscle relaxer. How maybe Ambien will frequency so much Ambien, so much other sleep medicines. But let's look at the addictive potential of some of these medications, ultra opioids and benzodiazepines almost criminal, what has happened with these addictive medications that we know they're addictive, but without anything else to give them and you have a patient that's there. And as physicians and healthcare I ultimately want to help people and I have given opioids and I have had the discussion with them. Like I understand you're in a tremendous amount of pain, I need you to sleep. I'm willing to give this to you for a very short period, because I feel like if I can get you to sleep, your pain will be markedly better. And we can stop these other things. As somebody who the world's now not that recent, but five months or so ago, I had my first real neck injury where the pain was an I've redefined my pain scale kind of thing. People go, Oh, that's an eight out of 10 I really thought stubbing my toe. redefine it. And we've talked about him before but Wade McKenna, an orthopedist, you know, he told me he's like, Listen, I'm gonna, I don't I don't like, you know, hitting you with a bunch of opioids and stuff like this, what we really need is to call the muscles down, I'm going to give you a long acting, benzo for days, take it for four days, stop taking it after that, because your muscles will calm down at that point, there was a plan, there's a plan to get me on as a plan to get me off. And he purposely said, I don't mess with these opioids. Are you kidding me? As an orthopaedic surgeon, and when if we could sit there and say, okay, you a patient comes to me, I'm a, I'm a primary care doctor, and somebody has a significant injury. And so tell me what the biggest thing about this. It's the anxiety of knowing that I don't know what's going to happen, okay, then you give a blend, which is more effective on the anxiety, tell me what's happening here, the pain keeps me up. Okay, let's do this, we now have the opportunity to treat these symptoms that ultimately may or may not need some other intervention. But we know it's not addictive. We know that it actually has. And now we're going to get into the science of it. But we know that it actually has these different properties that help decrease the inflammatory processes by blocking p parganas. by blocking these different pathways, g couple proteins, we can get all sciency about it. But the reality is, I don't do that with my patients, I say, Tell me what it is that's bothering you the most. Let's see if we can give you something for that. That's the beauty of what you're doing right now. Good blend has the ability to take these natural molecules in different ratios to help in different scenarios. Totally agree.
29:15
I mean, that's actually hit you reminding me it's kind of dissonant disheartening to look at a patient's med list when they come in. And there's a bunch of things kind of like what can just describe, and we're almost used to the polypharmacy or the or the multiple meds that are all listed there. And truly, knowing that a natural alternative could probably reduce that load. So we're playing less of this chemical warfare with this patient because it's almost a new we're kind of hinting at it earlier. It's almost like you're taking one thing to balance out the other thing that I've just gave them this new thing, and you're almost always chasing rather than actually treating and then and letting them be themselves.
29:59
So we are getting that feedback from patients which is that once they've been on our medicine for a while they're their drug list is decreasing. Tell us I've we've had we have been able to stop these three things and now I'm down to these things I've been able to reduce the dose of these things. And if you I'm not, I'm not asking you to do this, but if you want to go Oprah on me and ask for patient testimonials I I made, you know, their tear jerker is really, in terms of helping things we're able to do with people.
30:25
Well, you know what, yeah. Do you want to do it? Brian? Yeah, yeah. Tell me about one word, somebody, it made such a profound difference in their life that they couldn't hold back.
30:34
Yeah. So there's a there's a patient we have that has terminal cancer. And that was a hard just that you guys have these conversation. I don't, it was a hard conversation for me to have. But he had a great outlook on his life. And he started taking our medicine, and he was able to cut back on his opioid use. And the way he described it to me was, it's not just good for me, it's really good for my family. Because on opioids, I'm a zombie. And with your medicine, since I've been able to decrease the opioids, I can be myself around my family my final days. So they're hard stories, but happy stories. Another mom said to us, her son had so many seizures a day that, and he had so many anti seizure medicine. He was kind of just there, right? But on our medicine, he was able to stop taking some of his anticonvulsant medicines. And he said, how this is when it gets me he says to us, one day, Mom, I have feelings.
31:34
Wow.
31:36
That's, I mean, what a What a crazy thing to have to lose as a kid the ability to basically participate in life because it's being taken away from you by a chemical that up until now was necessary, because you you obviously can't just sit there and suffer from seizure activity over and over again, that's, that's dangerous in and of itself. Right. But not knowing that there's a better alternative is honestly criminal. It's criminal, not to know that there's a better solution than just taking anticonvulsants to control I'm assuming epilepsy or something similar to
32:09
right. So that's, so that brings up a really good point that mom, I have feelings. These medications have side effects, and the side effects that most people don't talk about as the pharmaceutical medicines, the pharmaceutical medications. Correct. So I get so many of these patients that are on polypharmacy, because so many of them have anti parasympathetic, meaning they affect the gut. Almost all of them do one way or the other. Oh, I have diarrhoea. When did that start? Six months ago, I see you're on Zoloft. When you start Zoloft. Seven months ago, huh? I have so much conversation What's going on? Oh, you're on the opioids? Oh, I've got a date all there. I'm fully aware that there's completely these are necessary drugs. But my job when I during residency. Some of us were chosen for basically treating older people. So I went to the older people clinic. And so my the technical term for it, that's the tactic. The older people,
33:21
obviously, yes.
33:23
Yeah. The layman's term is gerontology. But yeah, but we call it the older people. OPC. I would sit there. And as a resident, I'd looked at these lists, I'm like, you're 90, you're still here. Why do we care about your cholesterol that has this effect on this? And this? Why are you on this? Right? My sole job I viewed in that clinic, was to just get people off medicines, because the side effects at some point are just completely Yeah, outweighing that. And that was just a lifetime of going to this doctor that doctors cardiologists going to give this guest route, they just keep adding up. They just keep adding up him. Somebody shows up with a list of this. None of these drugs have ever been conducted in a trial, where they're all together. What happens then? We don't know. Well, I'm dealing with that now. And I've got a nine year old person and just every time they'd come back, they'd be more alert more. If you made it to 90. You're a baller. You've done it right. You deserve to drink, what's your mama smoke,
34:28
what you eat what you want, do whatever it is. And they would love that by the time they were there. Yeah, they start having fun again, and it was just about getting them off their drugs. You got to hit on something, though. And maybe you seen this because you said you've seen a show or or two but something that we've had we have hit on is lifespan, and life expectancy is just a number. But what's way more important truly, to enjoy those numbers is to have a good health span. And to be able to function and participate in life if you're going to live it. You may have It'll be involved in it right? How do you How does? How does your company view healthspan? In relation to to that?
35:09
I would say it's similar to the the things we've been talking about, which is if you can, if, if there's, if there's an opportunity to live a higher quality life, right. And there's a natural way to do that, and to get off some of the pharmaceuticals that maybe are causing some of the side effects, and you can live a happier higher quality life. I mean, that's, that's what we're here for. Right? It's kind of what I talked about well being that's exactly what we're here for.
35:36
So if you gave two quick testimonies, one, obviously about someone with epilepsy and one from somebody who was suffering from terminal cancer, yes, what other what other ailments to kind of focus on as it stands right now?
35:51
The so there is a treatable conditions list on Texas. And it is, it was created by statute. As you know, it started out in 2015, as intractable epilepsy, that was the only treatable condition. In 2019, the programme was expanded in a significant significant way where a lot of new conditions were added. So terminal cancer, autism, ALS, Parkinson's, spasticity, a whole giant category of conditions under the headline, incurable neurodegenerative diseases. And that has a list of about 300 things underneath it. So it was pretty significant expansion. And I would say across all those, all those treatable conditions, we're hearing positive testimonials.
36:36
That's fascinating. And actually, I had glanced at it, I don't think that they cannot have spent any time on it. But I did notice that there was autism. And I don't know that you do you have a testimony or not. But it's definitely something that's near and dear to this guy in our research, just to polyphenols but he's made he's made no mistake about it. There's a play there with with cannabinoids as well.
36:59
Yeah, I'll give you my I'll give you my take. In fact, we work with a great asset. She's been on the show before Angie cook. And she wrote up an incredible which I've yet to publish, partly because at the time, people were being I mean, Texans don't even I, I can go around right now and talk to my patients about CBD. And I've got CBD all over my office. And they will be like, Oh, boy, no, I'm not into that. And I'm like, let me explain that to you real quick. And let me explain this. Do you have any chronic condition, whatever, like, Well, yeah, totally do well, and then they end up, you know, purchasing it and saying, yeah, it made a huge difference. And it comes down to that rebuy rate. So as a business person, we know that I've got a almost 50% rebuy rate on Tron teal. And this is like, you know, worldwide. We know that that works. Because as if anybody's ever been in the pharmaceutical industry, I prescribe a drug and they come in and I'm like, Did that work and their trials that you know, the studies show? It's 8% better than placebo, whatever. So it all comes down to does the person want to come back and purchase more? That's To me, that's the that's where the rubber hits the road. My move towards autism became very personal. When I had a patient that brought her son in and he had become I'm an adult doctor, he had moved on from paediatrics to adult. And she said he's becoming almost impossible to take care of when he eats. He cannot communicate. He flailed he gets almost violent. And he's, you know, he's 16. Is he just becoming a young man, and this is getting really bad. I said, Listen, I don't know a whole lot about autism. But I do know that. You said when he eats, let's treat his gut. Let's fix his gut. And I'm just now getting into something where I believe it will play a role. And I put them on CBD. And now looking back, we're going to look at this, I'm going to be sitting in a lecture someday and an endocrinologist will have the exact thing to give that person. But right now that was best I could do is your mother shows up three months later, crying. And her son is communicating, not high level, but she's like, he's like, Hi. And he's talking. And I'm like, How do you feel? And he's like, you know, good. And she's like, This is crazy. It's been 10 years and I have not seen this person. And like, I don't know if it was the fix in the gut. I don't know if it was the CBD regardless, I think it's both. And that's where it came in. So then Angie did this incredible write up and maybe we can team up with your people to get it published, but it's like 50 pages long. It's super sciency. It's all about autism and the effect on the endocannabinoid system. And when I go to my colleagues and they say there's no science on this, we share a Mandalay capability, what Mandalay is. So we share this, the repository of journals that are out there are published and we've got a whole folder on There's a whole folder on CBD a whole folder on cannabis and cannabis. And the sciences, they're animals to humans. The problem is the science in the United States is not here the science that is recognised by our journals here, because, and we talked about this, that people don't realise that it was approved if you're going to study cannabis, and Michael Pollan was talking about this, the author Michael Pollan was talking about this, that the cannabis, which is approved by the FDA to be used in studies. It comes from one place, one place some crap lace, it's like 60 years old. Yeah, it's been around, and kind of just
40:40
shit marijuana. It just it's not indicative. It's not similar to the kinds of Medicinal Products that you're gonna get.
40:47
Yeah, exactly. This
40:48
is what it is, and correct me if I'm wrong, but this is, this is what all sanctioned and allowed us research is done on is basically just this one lot. Correct.
41:00
or from a federal perspective, I believe that's right. Yeah. Having said that, very exciting news in this most recent legislative session. Nice. The statute that they added to the statute that Texas can start its own research programme. So the department State Health Service real for real so yeah, they're they're writing the rules right now. And yes, it's very exciting. So Texas cannabis research. Does part of the Texas compassionate use Berg did not know that did not know that. And it goes beyond the treatable conditions list. For sure. do research, the research, whoever the research institution is picks what they want to study,
41:40
I need people to hear that said a little bit close with money. Which part the?
41:46
The research so the Texas compassionate use programme is introducing a research element. And the department State Health Services is writing the rules right now. I think they're even posted for public comment. And it's gonna happen. And so the research, whoever the research institution is, and they provide a list of who can qualify, you pick the condition you want to do research on. You do have to find an IRB. But it's sky's the limit. Oh,
42:12
my gosh, that makes me so excited that just that turned into hope for my IBD patient. Yeah.
42:20
So just to click and you
42:21
get to use our products. You don't have to use the federal cannabis.
42:25
Okay, I have been that is exciting having you on just for that one thing. I hope my partners listen to this because ga right now is we're getting close to 1000 providers strong. And in the state of Texas, basically everybody in the state now as part of this one group, to be able to power a study like that could be fan tastic. I have just, I thought that it was completely prohibitive. And Gotta love Texas. Gotta love. We're gonna do it in Texas if the feds don't want us. That's awesome.
42:59
No comment on that. Your point about autism, I've had the I've been very fortunate to be able to attend a to medical cannabis conferences in Israel. And then one was in LA. And there's plenty of studies out there about autism and THC for
43:14
sure. And that's what this 50 page review that Angie put together, put a lot of sweat and tears into it. And it's something that we should probably team up with some of your scientists to update it because it's about two years old. Yeah. But I was shocked reading it, the level of science, the level of information out there, and the amount of benefit that you can actually do and the correlation. So for me as gastroenterologist the correlation that when the endocannabinoid system is off, it affects all systems. But in my opinion, all health begins and ends in the gut. If you don't have a healthy gut, you ultimately affect the brain. And we've got we've done podcasts on this where we can show that neuro inflammation or chronic inflammation affects f h, which is the enzyme that breaks down your own endocannabinoids. And when you lower your inanda mind, which is the one that you know is your low level keeping you there. It's your body's own equivalent to THC. It's your body's own equivalent. And then on the flip side, when you have to a G which is the spotlight if that's getting turned on all the time, that's your that's like a that's the other portion of the endocannabinoid system. The difference between a Stanford grad and a simple country but doctrine Nebraska is I've used the same example the endocannabinoid system, but you referred to it as a symphony conductor. I refer to it as a traffic cop. Yeah. They're both good. I could say mines. You know what? I won't say. Yours is more elegant to start using that from now on. Yeah,
44:52
elegant was exactly the word I was gonna say. So I'm glad you said it is refined and yours is quickie, Martin.
45:00
To your point about the importance of the gut. And if you haven't checked out this research, please do. I think you're gonna find it very interesting. There's one of the leading researchers in the field of cannabis is a Dr. Ethan Russo. And he has a I think he calls it. I may begin this wrong, but the grand unified theory, but of course it spells out gut, but it's all about the the brain gut connection and with the endocannabinoid system as a key part of it, and you've you've addressed this in previous conversations, but they're all tied together.
45:33
One of my problems that I have had, and I'm curious how you and your sales people have dealt with this, it's the person that I know how to say this. I'm enthusiastic. And it took me a long time I've read vitamin weed, which is a great book, forgot the Michelle Ross, Michelle Ross. That's it. Michelle Ross wrote that she's a PhD. You know, there's Goldstein's book. These books are great. But I had to read them a couple times. The first time I started getting into it before you start going because it's it's a different language. It's that's why I think we're gonna have an Endocannabinoid ologists. My problem is when I have somebody, it's that the vomit of knowledge that I have to keep myself from doing when somebody is like, what's that? And then you start getting into it, and you're like, what's the endocannabinoid system? So I've always I'm a little bit curious, from a business perspective, how you as a company, get into that naive, let's just start with the naive doctor
46:38
that says, Why don't know about this? They start with the, you know, yeah, you know, I'm kind of curious. He may not want to divulge everything, but I really kind of want to know how many practitioners throughout the state are actively participating in this programme.
46:50
So the state publishes some data about the programme. The most recent date is from July, and there were over approximately 500
46:59
Oh, wow, it's much
47:00
bigger than I thought. And to be a prescribing doctor, you have to be a board certified specialist, as you are. So it's, it's not every doctor, you have to write you have to be board board certified. And then the patient, the patient count as of July was right around 7070 507,500. That may not sound like much, but it's growing 10% every single month. Well, it'll be one of those things every single and this is in the in the official kickoff was 2019. Right. For the first patients. The first patients were actually served in 2018. Okay, not by us, but okay.
47:38
So that is so tip of the iceberg because as a clinician, I went on once I found out you know, one of your sales people that had has known me for a long time as a friend and they got involved with this knowing that I'm involved with CBD and understand the endocannabinoid system. So first thing I did is I tried to sign up well, my specialty is not listed. So as a gastroenterologist, I'm not listed as currently interesting currently, because when I did the whole thing and went through it and tried to I couldn't find that. And then for me, it was a little daunting to say, Well, I'm internal medicine is there on board certified internal medicine, but I really practice 100%, gastroenterology. And I did not want to false under any false pretences as this is, because it's just a matter of time. It's better a short time. So discussing that, from a business perspective, what can I do? As a physician who's very interested in this? help some of the legislation, bring in other let's start, I've got a tonne of questions about that all these little things, but help bring in other specialists are there? I mean, I don't I don't even know I don't even know, like committees are?
48:55
Well, hopefully, a discussion like this helps. Right? For starters, right? It was one of the reasons. I mean, hopefully doctors watching this who are board certified specialists who are intrigued and have heard how much this can help will apply to get the programme. It's very simple for doctors to get in. You, you just provide your Texas Medical licence number, I think and your board certification number and the Department of Public Safety checks those two things. And that's pretty much the extent of it, you become registered and at that point, they very much leave things up to the doctor. That's one of the great things about the programme is Let's trust the doctors.
49:33
So in this case, not knowing enough about that. I'm like, Well wait till my specific specialty, it just there was neurology, oncology, pain, internal medicine. There was a lot of specialists so if there's a physician listening to this, go check it out, because more likely you're there. I'm just saying that gastroenterology was one of the few that was not listed.
49:55
I can I can certainly bring that up with them and ask, you know, we can get If we can get that specialty added, I'm surprised it's not on there.
50:02
That was eight months ago, nine months ago, something like that. Maybe it is I haven't checked recently. But I thought, well, it should
50:11
be one of the things I think you should be is. And I actually learned this from you in our very first phone call. One of the treatable conditions, which I don't think I listed before is called spasticity. And it is unlike everything else on the list for your very intelligent audience. They know as soon as I say that they're like, which one is not like the other spasticity is a symptom, am I correct, and everything else is a sort of a disease or condition. And you informed me that much of what happens between the mouse the top and the bottom, you know, by the way, for those who don't know, if you get on a phone call with a gastroenterologist, it can get like, it was unexpected. I was not expecting to have that conversation. In my day. I'm on the phone. I'm like, Whoa, because we went top to bottom, or you did, but apparently, it's all a lot of it's muscle. And there can be spasms in that muscle spasticity in the muscle, and that is a treatable condition.
51:03
It's nerves innervating muscles and the muscles if they go into spasm create tremendous pain. And if you're ever worked in ER, and you ask an ER physician, what's the what's some of the most common complaints, it's abdominal pain. Now that can be all the way from a perforated bowel appendicitis. But a lot of times people just get labelled, Oh, you've got a bug or IBS, and then they get sent out. That's it's a huge chunk, because it covers so much territory. So yeah, for spasticity. If we can get the spasticity handled, I can help so many people, my cebo people. So if you have small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, one of the reasons why you have so much pain is because the bacteria produce gas, which stretch the intestines, in a reflex, the intestines trying to track back, that's a spasm, this is reminiscent of our phone call together. except you're eating at the time. When somebody poops like this, you want to make sure that
52:06
I'm kind of curious about if if, in the new, you put it in these words, if a if a interested position, or one on the fence, even we're, we're considering this, and you've already talked about what it takes to get approved. So let's talk a little bit about what's the experience like to be that practitioner. For one, you write a, an opioid, or what something has a highly addictive property, or even if it's classified that way, it's called a controlled substance. And then in Texas until recently, we always came with the paper, triplicate, I mean, there was a there was a form to do so. So what's it like? What's the process for the writing of the prescription? And the experience going through your company? And what is the physician See? How is it dispensed? What's the fall ill insurance your ongoing?
52:52
Sure. A challenge for a patient can be finding a doctor who can prescribe we've tried to help with that by we have we have a virtual clinic on our website. So if you go to good blend calm, you can actually see a doctor through telehealth, it's one of the very great things the state of Texas has done is enabled telehealth for this programme, which is super exciting. You can see a doctor through a telehealth appointment or you can go to a doctor's office and see them there. They're either either the doctor will diagnose you with one of the treatable conditions, or you bring your medical records from a different doctor who's, for instance, if you had a patient and in their chart, and you'd put spasms of the gutter specificity, or they could actually take that chart to another doctor and get a prescription.
53:37
That is fantastic video. So as somebody who's learning and I'm risk averse, and all these things, I just don't want to I want to make sure that I follow the lay of the wall, which is why I stopped when my own specialty wasn't there. That is fantastic to know that I can say look I can right now I'm not comfortable doing it. But I truly believe that you could benefit from this, please go to this website. Set up a virtual visit. Show them this note, fax them my clinic note 100% Oh, that's
54:08
easy fan. TAs this, that's awesome news because it actually allows a physician on the fence or is worried about blowback from maybe their own partners, they can now safely dip their toe in the water and say, Look, I've got a pathway for you to get we have doctors that do this all the time.
54:21
Oh my gosh, that is great. You're exactly right. When I first started doing CBD, one of my partners grabbed all my all my pamphlets and said brown wants to sell weed in our clinic. That's fine, but I'm not taking part of it. Not a joke. So and then if I actually,
54:37
you know because there's just this much misinformation and and the people don't educate themselves. That is awesome. Because what are we talking about here and you said it you started off this interview. We want to help people and the people we want to help as the patients and you don't care if you're getting the credit as the doctor who is being in this position to do Do that. This is about the patient who comes in and says I hurt or I can't get over it or I as you said with the with the kiddo I can't feel. Let's get them on a route to do so if you're uncomfortable doing it's fine. Let them take what you found with them and then and then head over to G website
55:18
not to digress really quick. But when you said that I can feel for the first time imagine your child who you love dearly that has never been able to express love can then express that because of this because you got them off these meds as living that's living. Yeah. That's, that's awesome.
55:38
Yeah, it's fantastic. Oh, and I know you didn't mean to digress, but I am curious though. Yeah. Once they rot
55:44
that continues a journey for Yeah, sure. So that everything the patient record for the programme lives on a Texas website. It's the it's called curtsy u RT, the Compassionate use registry of Texas. A prescribing doctor would go into it's it's an online service, but you go into you log into that service. And then you create a new patient profile for your new patient. And then you create a prescription for that patient. And so your prescription you have they give ultimate flexibility for how you want to write this prescription. The ones we recommend are flexible to give the patient flexibility. So you would specify here's the milligrammes of THC, I think would work for you over a an X day period. So this prescription is going to exist for 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, we recommend 90 days, because I think one of things we've learned from the the, like the CVS is in the Walgreens of the world is that you can write that longer prescription you're going to get better compliance for for the second round of dispensations, but so 90 day prescription, this much THC and milligrammes and then you have to specify the means of administration, you can get very specific with that you can say, it's got to be tincture, or got to be a gummy, or there's a box that says, I think it says other any means other any means. And then there's a notes field. And so what you could say to a patient is, so you do all that. And you could say I recommend you start with this in the morning, this in the evening. And if you want to dabble with your, you know, try, try this and see how it works for you, you can try that too. So that all exists in an electronic record. The next step then is for the patient to contact, good blend. And then we they tell us their identifying information, we pull up that patient record and that prescription and we're able to dispense against that one opportunity for improvement in the programme. And some doctors do this some don't is you think about it, when the patient leaves that appointment. You know how this goes, I can't I can't remember really half what a doctor says when I leave that appointment, cuz it's a high stress, time. And when you get home, I have trouble remembering what the doctor said. So we do recommend you give the patient something that says, here's what I'm prescribing you, or you send them a follow up email and says, here's, here's the prescription I gave you, otherwise, they don't remember what you're prescribed. And then we're the ones reminding them, Hey, your doctor prescribed X, Y and Z. But that's the process. So you see a doctor doctor interest, the prescription into the compassionate use registry of Texas patient contacts us we dispense against that in terms of getting the medicine and products to patients. We offer a lot of different ways to do that. We started out as 100% a delivery model. So we were delivering to patients homes. We've recently added the the ability for patients to come into certain doctor's offices and pick up their what they've ordered. And even more recently, we've added the ability. It's almost like a miniature retail experience. But we bring unassigned product into the doctor's office, and a patient could walk right out of your appointment. you've entered their prescription and occurred and we can they can shop right there and buy what they want. And then so a one stop shop.
58:50
Let me clarify that really quick. So you're saying that a physician can actually have product in their office and they can sell it directly to the patient.
58:59
We do the selling? Yes. Okay. We are there in the in the lobby or wherever, wherever we are and patient comes in and they they see what we have to offer and then they buy what the prescription says and sorry, pharmacy extension, essentially essentially I'm okay. Okay,
59:13
so just one small caveat on this journey, so far, so much like, just so that people don't think that a physician is just guessing what the milligrammes are, whenever a new minute, whenever a new medication comes out that isn't cannabis. They utilise representative representatives to go and educate a physician. I doesn't matter if it's a new blood pressure medication. Every blood pressure medication that you've ever taken has had a representative go in and basically detail a physician on that. So I would imagine that there is a detailing process on best practices, things to look for cues. Correct. Thank you for bringing that up.
59:51
Yes, we as you would a physician would not be guessing. We have we have dosing guides. In For instance, if you want the prescription to be 90 days long. And you're thinking about prescribing x, we have a recommended daily dose and just multiply by 19. Put that into the prescription. So yes, we, we provide all those sorts of collateral educational material and that
1:00:09
kind of stuff. I mean, that's, that's not unique just to cannabis. I mean, we do that literally with every single pharmaceutical that has ever been rolled out. Physicians practitioners need to be educated on it. So this, love this because this is no different. And except for that it is because people have worried away from it. And I think it shouldn't
1:00:31
be different, right? And we're getting to the point where it's not sure I got here, you one other way, it's similar to the way prescriptions work in the pharmaceutical side is, if a patient were to call us or, or ask for something that was slightly different than what you prescribed, then we have the ability to contact the prescribing doctor and say, Hey, the patient is interested in this slightly different than what you prescribe. So for instance, let's say you, you check the box for tincture, and the patient decides they want to try our 12 ounce beverage or patient wants to try gummies might be in the same ratio might even be the same dose, it's just a different means of administration, we're able to contact you and say, Are you okay? If the patient gets this instead, and then we just write the note into the look like a little hamster typing there. We just write the note into the, into the prescription.
1:01:21
But I mean, that happens with generics and name brands and regular pharmaceuticals, too. So I mean, I think I think it's awesome that y'all it's it's completely your legitimising something that should have been legitimise a very, very long time ago. I love that you'll have that in your model. Yeah, it's
1:01:36
transparent. Yeah. I love how that's, that's well. And also, let's, since you brought it up several times, let's talk about these different means of administering. If you have examples, like what what are some of the things that you that you've seen your practitioners have success with that some of the clients the patients seem to like, because a lot of people don't realise A lot of people think oh, I, I don't I just have to smoke it. Right. That's the only thing that that it's there for it. So this is a medicinal product. What are some of the ways? Sure, sure.
1:02:06
So we started with started with tinctures back in the our first first couple months and and that was when the programme was in early days of the programme. I should back up a second say. One thing to note about the Texas compassionate use programme is we are capped at a THC maximum currently of 0.5%. by weight. If you know your you know the world of cannabis, you're thinking that's a very small amount of THC. It goes up to 1% starting September 1 based on most recent legislation, but one of the things we realised is that if depending on what the product is what depending what the means of administration is 0.5% can actually be a lot right the heavier the other ingredients are. The more you can get in there more THC you can put in the product and still stay below the 0.5% limit. So we had tinctures for a while and then we moved on to Los Angeles. We were the first company in the state to come out with an edible product like that it was lozenges meant to kind of dissolve in your mouth and for absorption of the cannabinoids after lozenges, we came out with gummies we're the first in the state come out with gummies we have one to one CBD THC ratio gummies and we have five milligrammes THC straight up. And in those gummies we've got different terpene profiles, we've got a sativa profile and indika profile that that's getting our doctors from prescribing flexibility we see you know, common common prescription might be take the one to one gummy, that's sativa in the morning, because it can be more stimulating and it's not you know, it's a one to one CBD THC so you have those working together. But when you're getting ready for bed, take the five milligramme indika gummy which can can be relaxing and can help you sleep. So those gummies really helped with prescribing flexibility. We then came out with lotions. So we've got some topical products, which now again you have to have one of the treatable conditions. But if you also have some other symptoms that could be helped by our medicines, then you're in the programme. Sure you have access to everything once you're in the programme. We launched medical capsules, which is a really nice, very precise dosing product for doctors. And then most recently, we were the first. By the way, all of these were first in the state. We most recently launched our 12 ounce beverage cannabis infused beverage, which I guess I have since I brought pot props, I might as well show the prop. It's empty because right now we don't have a prescription. But all these are getting great feedback I'd say are
1:04:47
the most popular. What are some of the other products that you brought. These
1:04:50
are all empty, of course there's our gummies here, these are the Texas Orange City, the five milligrammes I got one of our lotion, one of our topical lotion jars, here. Sure. Thank you for asking that question because one of the things I should mention is one of the things we did launch, this is our dream tincture. So it's it's designed with a terpene profile for evening use. Yeah, but one of the things we also did with this tincture, and it's a different bottles that we added, lowers, they can go to our website and see a nice rendering of the bottle. But one of things we did with this launch of the dream tincture is we had a companion tincture called dream plus CBN. So we were the first in the state to come out with a cannabinoid that was not just THC or CBD. But we also added CBN to the mix. And the best way to describe that is it's the sleepy cannabinoid, it's known to encourage sleep. So you get some THC CBN, great product for if you're having trouble with sleep onset or sleep duration. So
1:05:51
one of the things that I asked all my patients is no matter what, if you're coming in to see me you got an issue, how are you sleeping, and it's incredibly important, a holy cow, it is the biggest, I'm going to call it a life hack. If you're not getting proper sleep, then you are not able to number one, clear your brain because you're setting yourself up for dementia later in life, you're not able to have the motility in your intestines, you're setting yourself up placebo, you're not able to down regulate the inflammatory cytokines. So you wake up with pain. Multiple studies have shown, which is one of the things that pisses me off about hospitals, you operate on somebody and then you poke and prod them all night, you don't let them sleep and all the pings and the beings, all the things in the beings and everything that my wife just went through a procedure. And that was one of the things I told the nurses, I was like, here's what we could do. That'd be really cool. Let's just turn off everything. She's totally healthy. She's not going to shut down on you, you guys have her monitored at the nurse's station. Why don't we turn off all these alarms here? Yeah. Because if she can sleep great, then we know that that's going to help so anything to help with sleep. That is not, you know, you brought up Ambien in the very beginning. We know during sleep studies, if you look at Matthew Walker's book, he describes how Ambien doesn't let you get the proper sleep. You think you sleep but you don't. And when you have something natural, which Mother Nature has that in the whole plan, that if you just increase load of the CBN I think that's brilliant. That's actually the first time I've ever heard of a product adding that and that's really exciting.
1:07:24
So, as you alluded to the getting my time at college was a long time ago, but one of my favourite courses in college and this is probably gonna sound lame, was a class called sleep and dreams on its face. That probably sounds like a pretty easy class. It was taught by Dr. William demand, the discoverer of REM sleep. And we learned all about the as you can imagine, he was very passionate about sleep, including various theories that it might have been behind the challenger or the Exxon Valdez, right. Lack of sleep can cause big problems. And so ever since I've been very passionate about sleep.
1:07:52
Oh, that is awesome. That is one of my huge things. We talked about the products and he just kind of had a random question about manufacturing. But when y'all have any it's homegrown here in the state of Texas. So when y'all get your cultivation, crops vary from from crop to crop, how easy or how difficult? Is it to number one, make certain that you've got good clean? No pesticide product number one, number two, the milligramme count, that's going to change probably I don't know if y'all do an indoor grow or an outdoor grow. Just kind of speak to that if
1:08:24
you don't Sure, sure. So you are correct. Everything we do is grown here in Texas, we have a variety of different genetics that we grow, we then extract the cannabinoids from the cannabis plant. And I, you may be able to correct me on how accurate This is. But I like to think of extraction as similar to how we get coffee, right? If you're making coffee and a Keurig. You're putting the beans in there, right and you're running hot water through it that's similar to what we do we run supercritical co2 through the dried plant material, we're extracting the cannabinoids out of that. There's a lot of steps after that to purify and distil it. But essentially, we're left with a lot of different base ingredients, all natural that came from the plant. And then we can mix and match those to create these formulations, the different terpene profiles etc. And then we run everything through a wide variety of tests as specified by the Texas compassionate use programme.
1:09:18
Now that makes that makes sense. I mean, it's beautiful. In fact, since we started in once we came educated on how we wanted to source our own CBD back several years ago. You already mentioned it yourself cleanly extraction or I'm sorry, cleanly extracting is is is important. If you care enough about the health of the end user then you need to make certain that your process is clean.
1:09:38
Yeah, and you referenced reference pesticides, we, we use plant based natural oils. And even more interesting perhaps to your audiences we use what what are called beneficial insects. So there is a company out there that ships us live bugs, specifically designed to guard the plants And they can live in the soil that can be flying around. But they these these beneficial insects, they kind of kick butt and they kill anything that might be bad for the cannabis plants. So it's really natural way to
1:10:11
visit a symbiotic relationship do they thrive just simply because they're around cannabis themselves?
1:10:16
I'm not aware they survived because they're eating the any bad bug.
1:10:20
Oh, yeah, it's just the lure
1:10:24
is so cool. There's a lot of that going on in mycology right now also, where they're trying to find, you know, different fungus species, protect plants and things like that. I love that whole natural protection by a warfare, get rid of those pesticides, get rid of those fungicides and use use natural things that is really cool.
1:10:44
I'll say this, though our head of cultivation when that when that box of beneficial bugs shows up. He's like, we got to get that inside out of the Texas heat. Right. So but it's they survived, they survived the shipment, and we get them in there in the plants and they protect them. Nice.
1:10:59
That is cool. I have a couple business questions for you. I was thinking about this. As somebody who and I know it's probably not your job, but as you being president of this division, you have to talk to somebody who's doing this in something that is still considered fringe, because I struggle right now like everybody else. I'm trying to hire people from my office. And it's hard to find good top talent for different positions. When you're in an industry like this, we're in Texas with still a little bit of edge. You can't just go on indeed and say, you know, Cannabis,
1:11:34
we actually do you do? Yeah, we recruit using indeed. And then all the other recruiting services and
1:11:38
people see it and go, that's the company I want to work for. Absolutely. Wow, that's awesome. I thought it'd be more difficulty with Well,
1:11:46
you you have talked with our provider advocacy team, you know, they are elite. But a lot of times they're ex pharma because they wanted to get out of that world and be something natural that can still help patients. We as we were we get a tonne of potential employees who want to be in this industry. And almost almost all of them say they want to do it because they've heard stories, or they have friends in other states, or they've moved here from other states. And they've seen how beneficial it can be.
1:12:12
I mean, the reason that we met Marcus was because Seth was motivated exactly like that. Yeah, exactly.
1:12:19
Yeah. 100% Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, that is so cool. I think there's a couple really key things here for me that I took away. Number one, the research thing is so exciting. I cannot even contain myself, because that is something that we just said
1:12:37
that walked out.
1:12:40
Grab this mic and be like, it's not just research pi.
1:12:45
Sorry, because stanza thing where you hit the joke, and you just yeah.
1:12:50
Yeah, like how you worked in a television or movie reference?
1:12:54
Are you saying it that you didn't know. And I heard it was a requirement. I was told, prepare some of those markers.
1:13:01
The other thing I was gonna throw out sorry, Ken. But is I was interested in the fact that you were have been so open. And really from top to bottom on how this process should feel somewhere new. I didn't know if I was going to be able to expect it from someone who formerly worked with NSA, because he
1:13:20
was warning me a little bit. I didn't know if we were just gonna sit there and you're just gonna smile the entire time? Well,
1:13:25
I'm sure I came across a little bit nerdy, but yeah. Can't talk about much about the NSA. No, no, don't worry, they're still probably listening to me making sure I don't
1:13:35
like how you say probably.
1:13:39
The other thing that is really cool as a physician, which I want all of my colleagues to hear this is that we you can write the note send it to an experienced doctor. And I say that because there's going to be a lot of my colleagues, I mean, Dr. Item, Dr. Malik, who really want to get involved, if they're like, I don't know enough about this. I'm like, well, this is the doctor. I mean, like they would say things. But in me, I would say this since I'm, I'm all about CBD, I'm learning about THC and combinations, I would love to send it to an experienced doctor that says listening to your symptoms, I feel comfortable that you need this THC amount. And the CBD This opens up a whole world of other doctors being funnelled in to somebody that has more experience, saying this is just like you said, I would like you to take this in the morning this at night, just like I do when I do supplements. And when I do things for any type of gastrointestinal symptom, I've got a unique way that I like to use this, that those two things, the research and the fact that I can lean on somebody with more experience is very cool, right? And as as if you start doing that, you'll get to hear the returns coming back from your patients and
1:14:48
that'll give you more confidence that you might one day to yourself,
1:14:52
right for sure. You're basically and this has happened with just about everything. I think every doctor should do this. I think anytime that you utilise a special You should read the note and you go, Oh, that's how now I'm feeling more comfortable. I'm seeing the pattern that's going on here. And now I have my primary doctors call me, Hey, I noticed that you treat CBOE with this, I treated this person, they're not getting better. Should I try something else before I send them to you, or, and that's what I'm going to be doing to these people. That's great. Yeah, if you put specificity in the note, they'll be good to go. That opens up a lot, a lot. And so if you have Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, the stuff that I like to treat and share it with your friends, tell them that this is an option. Because this will be really, really exciting to help people I've got, after we get off here, I've got about three hours worth of calls, the patients that have had stuff happen that I need to get back and see how serious it is. And I'm going to tell them all like man Hang in there. Because I think we've I think we're going to turn over a new leaf here real shortly. It's
1:15:56
really good point about sharing too, because the main reason why we have is available now in Texas is because there's been patient demand, and there's practitioners willing to find something new. So if either of those describe you and you want to find something new for your patients, or you've been suffering, or you, your family member or a friend of someone else who has this, this message needs to be heard and needs to be shared and understood.
1:16:18
And I would be remiss if I didn't add another huge change that's coming September 1, this may not be as big a while for you as the research programme. But starting September 1, PTSD becomes a treatable condition. And all cancers, treatable condition Oh, whoa,
1:16:33
this is this is Oh, you mentioned I'm a veteran. So this is huge for me personally, that that's coming September 1. There's a lot of excitement around this. And I did I bury the lead?
1:16:45
No, no, that's actually a really big deal. Because awesome. That's huge. So I treat a lot of cancer. Clearly, not as much as the oncologist. But as we can start, I work with whenever I find a cancer, and unfortunately, we're finding cancer in younger people. And this is not something that I want to be involved with, and I want to be able to help them. And if I can get my colleagues, I got my little team, I got my colorectal surgeon, and I've got my oncologist. And we just kind of share these people, a lot of times I find them and they go around if all three of us are on the same page with this, and I know that will be that's a big deal. It's the the comfort zone of doing that. And then the comfort of having, maybe we find somebody that we can funnel into here locally. And we all learn from that one person and watch what they do. If that's
1:17:37
changing On September, the first and I really I even wrote this down is one of my early notes, I didn't want to go there just in case it was going to really put you on the spot in this type of arena and then stop me if it does. But I'm passionately concerned about the people who have given their time and put their lives on the line to fight for our country only to go to a system which I believe fails the multiple, multiple times. And that being the VA when they're just they deserve better. So can you speak to a little bit about maybe what the VA will begin to consider in this arena. Or if someone happens to be a veteran in Texas specifically, I don't really know.
1:18:19
I can't speak to the VA in general, I know that we're we are getting and the prescribing doctors we talk with are getting a lot of calls from veterans. And there's a lot of excitement around this. And there's even there's even patients getting signed up. We just can't dispense till September 1. So this is happening. Anecdotally. And I can't know if I mentioned this in the beginning but one of the other states that we operate in is Florida. And Florida is the biggest medical cannabis programme in the United States. So a lot more opportunity for testimonials coming out of Florida. And it's a bigger treatable condition with actually Crohn's disease is on their treatable conditions list in Florida. We hear amazing things from veterans but also that they appreciate that they can enter a programme like a medical cannabis programme to improve their health span their quality of life over maybe what they had gotten from prescription drugs.
1:19:16
That's the goal. I mean, because oftentimes in the VA, my ID, I should say anecdotally, but the experience that I encounter with patients that do suffer from PTSD and they happen to be a veteran is it's almost always trying to be solved by a pill. It's very rarely a one on one consultation for them to get counselling and, and be able to understand why they may be suffering through what they're suffering through. And in certain instances, it sounds like they may even be threatened that if they happen to utilise cannabis on their own then they simply are forgoing some other type of therapy or whatever. Knowing that this is going to be an avenue opening up i think is a huge win for people who deserve better period. Absolutely. That is awesome.
1:20:01
That is so cool I, I feel your passion in this, I can tell that you fairly low key though. Now it's it's a, it's a very distinct slow burn that you that you're really going to make a difference here. I appreciate and you you know the science, you've got the business acumen. But most importantly, you realise the difference in making in people, you see what you need to do. And I feel very comfortable with where this company is going and structure, what you've laid the foundation you're making it the model that medical cannabis should be. And as somebody there that's been kind of waiting to do this, I feel way more comfortable. Really getting involved in and and obligated to help my patients if this is available. Just I'm don't want to be a hypocrite here. This is something we set up before. Just like you said, when you see the difference that it makes, I know patients that need this, I've just waited for the right time to do it. And I think meeting somebody like you that has chosen to leave some lucrative fields to take this on to get this out. Because of all the lives that can change, including veterans, including people with pain, including opioid addiction, including all these things. polypharmacy we covered a lot of ground here but I just want to thank you for doing that. I want to thank you for taking this on and coming on the show and being very genuine being very open and honest. And I'm really proud of everything that you've done what's the what's the preferred route for people to look at more
1:21:39
about good blend for you
1:21:41
go to our website good blend calm or you can go to TX good blend calm if you go to good Burnett calm we'll ask you to pick your state. And also say you're older than 21 tx good blend.com tx dot good blend calm, you're able to see all of this stuff. You see this? Oh,
1:21:54
yeah, by the way, these hats are cool. So in addition to some of the products you're doing, are you coming out with a whole clothing line or something and we're gonna be able to
1:22:04
when we have some good stuff, so stay tuned. Stay tuned. And thank you for all the kind words that was really, really nice of you. And I'm, I'm very honoured to be in this position and to have this chance to lead such a great team of individuals who, who all are trying to make a difference. And every one of us is trying to make things better for Texans in need. I'm just so thrilled to get that chance and and really thank you for having me on the show because I I can't wait for your listeners to hear this because it'll help get the word out. And I really appreciate that.
1:22:35
Absolutely. And as we say, this is really important. This is really important stuff. If you know anybody that possibly could benefit from this, please like share it, share it with your friends and family. It's really important. I believe that this will make a huge difference in so many different disease states. And you have an obligation if you're listening to this to share this
1:22:58
100% that's going to do it for Episode Number 61 Marcus ruark Thank you so much. Marcus ruark from good blend, Texas, and this also hat that's going to do it for this show. Please like and share. And this is probably one of my this is definitely one of my top shows.
1:23:16
Yeah, this is definitely top show anything you want to say as a parting shot. Marcus.
1:23:21
Just thank you. Thank you for setting this up. Thank you for sharing all this information and thank you for sharing so much about the endocannabinoid system.
1:23:29
Absolutely. Bye everybody. Episode 61
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Hello gut check project fans and KB MD health family I hope that you're having a great day. It's now time for episode number 60. Soon to be joined with my awesome co host Dr. Kenneth brown board certified gastroenterologist and we are digging in to my colony Yes, kicking it off to fun guys talking about fun Gus so let's get straight to it. I think that you will really like the series which we are about to kick off So with no further waiting let's get into the people that pay the bills are trying to get your daily polyphenols and artron to go to love my tummy.com slash KB MD. Get your very own polyphenols from artron to love my tummy calm today. Second, of course go and feel like great food. Don't forget that you can always head over to unrefined bakery calm or you paleo eater. You can't tolerate gluten you want just some great bread but you're worried about the way there's gonna make you feel unrefined a bakery, take 20% off your entire first order it unrefined bakery.com use code gut check and save 20% for your entire first order unrefined bakery.com And last but not least, head over to KB m d health.com. For your very own Dr. Brown signature packages artron teal CBD from KB MD health as well as the only professional curcumin added to broccoli. That's right so if you're feigns for you, your health use code GCP for 20% off of any order a short intro because we're kicking off an awesome series here no guest today so we're going to get straight to the to the information for about mycology and fungus. There's over a million different types of mushrooms which you may or may not be aware of, however, does tune in Episode 16 starting now.
Hello KBMD health family and gut check project fans. It's time now for Episode Number 60 with my awesome co host here, Dr. Kenneth Brown. I'm Eric Rieger. Dr. Brown, I think with this episode number 60 we must be a couple of fun guys.
that's a that's a pretty good pun. Because today we're talking fun guy.
We are talking about
mushrooms. So we're it's pretty exciting. I was watching on Netflix of a show called fantastic
fungi. logs. It was talking about that.
Yeah. And so a lot of people if you get a chance go and take a look at this. Paul Stamets I learned about this pre COVID when Paul Stamets went on Joe Rogan. And at that time he was talking about it and they're trying to raise money. So I rent or I purchased the movie, sure through Amazon Prime or one of those and watched it. Because they're supposed to go to various locations and show it at theaters like yeah, like in like in really cool locations, and outdoor theaters and stuff like that COVID hit, didn't get a chance to do it. And now it's on Netflix so you can see it. It's great. But what it does show is just how complex fungi are and the whole kingdom of fungi, which includes the mushrooms, which everybody thinks of them as mushrooms, and we're gonna get into that a little bit. But today we're gonna talk about that and not just kind of what they talked about. I mean, there's a lot of stuff in the medium right now about magic mushrooms and different things like that. But we're gonna talk the nutritional aspect, because an article just came out recently and I think you're gonna start seeing a big push of people discussing Well, how do we use this as a functional food, and that's what I want to get into today.
That's huge and interesting, because growing up, I think that my only exposure to mushrooms were if they happen to come in a soup or if it was a you know, a portabello or a baby Bella or just a traditionally a white Texas mushroom and really didn't know much else than if they grew in the yard. And of course your mom was like, don't touch those are probably poisonous. So I I think it's kind of amazing how people kind of transitioned on this is actually something that can be very, very beneficial given the right circumstance.
Absolutely. It's so cool. There's so much science with it. And you're right like it could be poisonous. Unfortunately, a good friend of ours, Dr. Rusev, Ron, a gastroenterologist in San Antonio, if you're anywhere in that area, make an appointment with him. He's amazing. His chocolate lab ate a skullcap I believe in cause liver failure. And his poor dog is really close to his dog and so that happened to our pig.
Oh, that's right. Snoop hoggy, hoggy,
hoggy hog you have pig we
did and Snoop Doggy hog a to death cap and it's very sad but it literally followed the the timeline of what happens when a mammal
eats exists. skullcap or death tap is a call to death camp.
I was assuming skullcap was another one I didn't really know but
I'm barely getting into the one You can eat, let alone a boy,
but you're not supposed to. So they, I think the death caps, at least in Texas, they'll follow the tree roots of oaks or post Oaks. And we've got a lot of okay. And so we're where we lived at that time. And so he was kind of lethargic for a day or two. And then there was about three days where he was really energetic and hyperactive. And I hated to see it, but it's almost like there's this turn, it's about a six to seven day rule. There's not a lot he knew.
Regardless, I was just sitting there this morning, actually, this morning, I was doing the like news feeds. And of course, something always makes it up on Reddit. There's a woman in Taiwan where her landlord won't fix the leaks. And she was showing pictures of her bedroom, where the leaks are coming down to the wall. It's becoming a whole wall. It's a mushroom growing apartment, Natalie. Yeah. And she was just showing it's just like strips of mushrooms. And you know, it was getting a lot of comments, like if you you know, is that this will, if that's that, then you can eat it. And that's good news. And other people are like you're just breathing in spores. Pretty sure. Not the best place to have mushrooms all over your bedroom, but it is part of it.
I don't know if it is or if it
isn't. We'll get into all of this about the beneficial aspect of mushrooms. This is not a show about what what mushrooms can kill you. We're going to talk about how you can utilize mushrooms for your overall health benefit. And I was blown away by how healthy these are like people aren't talking about it. I always thought mushrooms were just something to add texture. And she didn't really think much about it. No. Now, this is really cool, because we're going to even sample a mushroom dish that has the nutritional value of this is pretty cool.
Yeah, I'm excited to sample it again.
Speaking of cool, yeah. I want to give a shout out to the wonderful Dr. Christian mill vilem you're that's how you say
Oh, yeah, last guess. Yeah,
yeah. Kristin. Well, she did something really cool about this now, and she sent us signed copies biohack your brain your Eric says right there dear Eric, left a little message for you. biohack your brain on our last episode Episode 59. Dr. Kristen, it's it's spelled Willem here. It's pronounced the villa Muir, PhD super smart, fantastic woman she sent us both signed copies of biohack your brain. And I think she's gonna end up coming out with addition to after she hears this episode, because I think we can help even biohack your brain more with these mushrooms.
They are amazing. Thank you, Kristen, this is this is a very, very nice gift. And I mean, the feedback from that episode alone is really kind of amazing and ongoing. And people are are wanting to learn from her book because we referenced it. But yeah, she's
a smart cookie. And a study just came out today, sort of verifying everything she has in this book study just came out with a huge, huge number of people that showed those people that eat flavonoids, which she discusses correct in her book, significantly decreased dementia later in life. Oh, we talked about polyphenols all the time. But today we're going to come off the whole polyphenol thing and talk a little about mushrooms because I'm just excited. I feel like we're kind of pulling the lid off of this whole mushroom thing, the way that we did with polyphenols, and we keep getting deeper and deeper. Let's
do it. I'm ready to learn.
Yeah. Let's go ahead and jump in. Before we jump in really quick. I was just thinking about this. I I have not seen Mac or Murray around. And just it's odd not to see them or they did everything going okay with Mark and Murray. They are alive. Okay. And they are not in the country
wasn't as in the United States. They are in a country. So everyone is I mean, everyone's susceptible, I guess. And as a family, we took a trip to Panama the country on
average on the news, those vacation trips look amazing, man, that
is great trip. I mean, it really wasn't wonderful family vacation. And we, we we weren't trying to go around crowds. Unfortunately, we we did have to go through an airport. So I'm assuming that possibly that's where the infection took place. But I don't I don't know. No one knows. But all four of us flew in to Panama City, we immediately get to a rental car. And we drove five and a half hours deep into the jungle down to this whale peninsula. There we served had a great time. And then we set up a test for us to be tested outside of the Panamanian International Airport at the tocumen Airport and we were advised that Be sure and do it outside of the air. Because if someone happens to be positive, you can then quarantine yourself, and then schedule your own subsequent tests to come back. So we did that. The other problem was is when they called to give us our results, we were already in the airport, we didn't realize that there was that caveat. So when informed that Mac was positive on his antigen swab coach that I said, well, do we need to leave? And they basically, we were informed Well, you're already on camera. And you're there. You got to stay. So essentially, Mac was was COVID positive, the pain could have any symptoms. 00 nada, no, no fever doesn't doesn't feel bad. But he and since he's only 17, and not 18, that meant that a parent had to stay. Fortunately for us, Murray does all of her work digitally, almost. And she's able to stay with him. But they are in a hotel room until the end of this week.
Did they get to choose their hotel room that sounds neat wasn't necessarily a choice.
Wasn't a choice at all. And they are only in the room and Reid and Mack both deserve huge credit because they've kept a great attitude. I don't think I could have pulled it off. But she she took some funny videos when they first got there because when they get their meals, they either flash the lights in the room or they buzz their room and tell them that they can go down the hallway. And this is a this is a very nice hotel. The hotel is not old at all. It's very brand new. It's brand new.
It's so it's a Panamanian, COVID Hotel, that's where their quarantine all visits
are seven nice hotels that are quarantine for visitors currently. And they they didn't have to walk down the hallway and then an unmanned elevator appears with their food Emory took a picture of is a very Stephen King. Yeah,
it sounds like a horror film. Yeah. They're waiting for two little girls and triceps
to shine. And I think I think if only for you know, five days, it would be kind of funny. As we're approaching 14 days, no one's really laughing much. You come home,
I say on the news, because all my employees I showed up to work and they're like, Hey, we saw Eric's family. And like you didn't see the whole family.
Yeah, just just just half. But does read it and re gave him pictures. She was contacted from a local affiliate, because I think it could be wrong, but I think she has a client who has a connection. They reached out to them and, and Mac and Maria, both good sports. And they went along with it. And I want to say just like they did, the Panamanian people, wonderful, this is very little to do with them. We're not above anybody's protocol, we went with exactly it happened. We thought we were being cautious. And, you know, we're we're still going to enjoy ourselves as a family. That's what this is the risk that we took.
I think it's and I think that's great. I think the lesson here is if you're when you come into a country, you have to be COVID negative, and we're all getting used to taking those tests before we go. And then when you leave at least do it a day or two before so that you don't have to be part of the governmental process. Yeah,
it's there's a couple of lessons certainly in there about the way to handle it, just simply because of the the way the bureaucratic rules are. And it's it's no one's fault, who's who's necessarily down in Panama. However, that being said, you know, would we have traded in the vacation in the time that we guys are family to tonight ever have those experiences? I still say no. Yeah.
And so when that those, those pictures were amazing. The Panama just looked absolutely beautiful.
Yeah, it was nice.
anything going on with you personally, sides spending all your time trying to figure out how to get stuff to them in
Panama. Oh, man, that was not very much fun. Everything is kind of pales into comparison. where lots of work and that's enough. Self well, because you got something coming up with you got a young one that travels.
So this is relevant. So Lucas had a really good showing at one of the largest tournaments of the year called the qaiser tournament in Kalamazoo, Michigan. him and his partner, Nico godsick won the doubles. Awesome. And then he made it to the finals unfortunately didn't pull it off because the winner gets to go to the US Open. So didn't quite but still huge bracket 250 some kids the best in the country. And he made it to the finals. So super proud of him.
But your son also overcame in the semi finals, a six one loss in the first to come back and win the next two. Correct?
Correct Yeah, so in the semi finals, he came out a little but it just shows the caliber of play that's out there. If you don't have your game face on, you can or if you're just not firing on all cylinders, and you know he's playing two matches a day, every day for whatever seven days in a row. pretty wild and really cool to see that that level. We'll play they streamed it online. So I was able to watch these matches and you know, and love that my son was able to give a very gracious and appropriate loss post loss speech afterwards where they kind of hand the mic to you and you kind of get the you understand what it's like when you you miss out on something you want so bad, they're like, okay, that's great. Hey, what do you think about that? Put a mic in front of it, I think if the Naomi osaki stuff that's going on, and how the media stuff but so super proud of him. And we'll see what what goes on. He's gonna be doing some international traveling. And so we had a long talk about what makin Maria going through and how we're going to do the testing now and how to make sure that you cover your bases and how to prepare that if you have to stay for an extra two weeks,
I will say gauge when we when the news broke that, that some people were going to have to stay because of quarantine gage was obviously negative. And he looked at us and he said, Well, I'm getting on the plane. So he is back at his back and luck attack and getting ready for the fall semester. He's looking forward to just having a fall semester where they actually go to class
like it like a real college experience. Yeah, yeah, totally. super proud. Carla's taking tennis, serious enough that now she's going to do online school. So she's joined the what I guess the more competitive group at the legs where they practice in the morning stuff. And so she's doing some fun fitness. This is the only thing she came home. And she was like, yeah, that had this fitness guy. And he's talking about fast twitch muscles in doing this and explosive power. And we're doing all the exercises that you make me do. I'm like, I'm telling you. Yeah. You guys think I don't read? I mean, I'm not telling you. Just because I'm a country, but doctor doesn't mean I can't at least read some stuff on sports performance. Yeah, I'm
learning that parents don't always get the same credence design.
So Well, I think Dan is up to speed here. That's been an interesting week that you've had. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk mushrooms that. Alright, so I want to talk a bit about the nutritional value of mushrooms and the effects on the microbiota. We always talk about the microbiota and I had no idea that mushrooms and factories very little in the literature about this, about the effect on our gastrointestinal health, okay, through mushrooms, we'll eventually get to that. Before we do that, we got to talk the mushrooms, the beautiful mushroom that everybody thinks about which is the fungi. The actual thing is, this right here is the cap. Mm hmm. Underneath the cap, you've got these gills underneath that you've turned a mushroom over and seeing the little lines that are there. And then below that is the is the basically the stock or the stem. And then beneath that you have the mycelium. What you'll learn if you watch fantastic fungi is that it's all about the mycelium, this that we eat that we think are mushrooms. This is basically a sexual origin, as they call it, fruiting fruiting. It's the fruiting body. underneath those gills right through here is where all the spores are made. And I remember what was his name that we had in the podcast that knew everything about mushrooms. Oh,
that was early on.
Cooper Reed Cooper read, talked about it like it just flowed off his tongue and I was like, what's he talking about? He used the word gills spores mycelium and I'm like what? Well, the mycelium is fascinating because that's basically without the mycelium. We don't exist. The mycelium is it's so cool, just watch fantastic fungi. But we're going to talk about the fruiting body right here. Because this is what we know more about mushrooms about what's going on. underneath here are the spores. They release trillions and trillions of spores, you actually breathe them in. Whether you know it or not all the time. We live in harmony with this organism. It's not a plant. It's not an animal somewhere in between. and we exist because of this. Yep. And I had no idea that this fruiting body is so good for you in so many different ways. So that's what I want to talk about.
Let's do it.
Alright, from a nutritional standpoint, you were we were working today and you're like you know, I hear all this stuff people throw out names and you hear things and gnocchi should tacky and you know, criminy and oyster and all these other names of mushrooms are some really cool names also Reishi Reishi lion's mane, but then there's like, I mean, just really wild ones. If you watch the Netflix special, he just starts rattling off purple headed dragons and things like that. It's there's over, I'm gonna get it wrong. I'm gonna get all this wrong, but 1.5 million different species that we've identified.
I do not know that. It's
like some crazy number like way more than plants and everything. So from a nutritional standpoint, that's what I want to talk about today. And because we don't want to have a few other experts on to discuss some of these other aspects, but I've always kind of viewed mushrooms as just this filler that you just put into soups. Yeah. Or Whatever it is you want to do salads, it just adds a little bit of texture to things. So I pulled the nutritional facts of a few mushrooms very, very common ones, brown mushrooms, also known as crimini mushrooms. total fat is zero, total cholesterol is zero. Total carbohydrates is four grams. Protein is two grams. And the fiber content is point five grams, which is 2%. So four grams carbohydrates, but point five of it is fiber. Then you go to pataky mushrooms, which you'll find in Asian food all the time. And same thing about cholesterol and fat. That's the same process. This one also has two grams of fiber 12 grams of carbohydrates. And then oysters, oyster mushrooms, it's got two grams of fiber as well protein three grams. Now the aspect which I was unaware of, is the incredible micronutrients in it, it's one of the only ways to get vitamin D. Outside of Sunlight, sunlight, wow, it has a significant amount of selenium. In fact, a small serving of crimini mushrooms which would be like five small mushrooms is 31% of your daily Selenium that you need. And we have a hard time getting Selenium in our diets. That's actually why I eat like a Brazil nut three times a week just a pecans, yeah, to try and get that in. And then other nutrients like copper that you don't think of zinc, potassium, thymine. All of these things, and even iron are in slightly different, very slightly different concentrations of these different mushrooms, they're all slightly off. But the micronutrient component of this is incredible. Copper is one that I don't really pay much attention to. But then I realized, well, it's part of a cofactor in a lot of different things in your body it is. And so that is the mushroom content, or some of the nutritional values of some of the more common mushrooms. So if you're going to take these mushrooms, make a stir fry or a soup out of it, all you got to do is put five of these mushrooms, five of each kind into whatever it is. And what you're going to end up with is a total of 100 calories, no fat or cholesterol 4.5 grams of fiber. So that's 70% of the fiber that you need in a in in your whole day. six grams of protein. So for me 200 pounds, somewhere around point eight grams per kilogram, so slightly north of 70 grams of protein, I get six grams just in the mushrooms nice. And that's kind of what I aim for is around 72. But the real key to these are the micronutrients. It's like 64% of your daily Selenium 64% of your daily selenium, a ton of vitamin D and a lot of B vitamins that I didn't talk about before, along with copper, like we're talking about. Okay. So learning about this. We had a little bit before we started the show we Diego couldn't resist honestly, what we did is we made a basically it's kind of I don't know what would you call it a saute of. Number one, it
tastes incredible.
So with this in this, let's let's call the stir fry. In this stir fry, there is half a pound of grass fed grass finished meat, we have half a bag of spinach. There's those mushrooms that we discussed in those ratios. And what this comes out to is that with the grass fed meat, the spinach, and this doesn't include the nutrients from the onions and the other things to add a little bit of flavor onion, garlic, the zucchini, you're going to end up with 30 grams of protein, you're going to have 6.3 grams of fiber. Well I should break it down the meat is 30 grams of protein, you add the spinach, that's 6.3 grams of fiber, eight grams of protein and 50% of your potassium. So you put the mushrooms end with this and this little bowl here, which we're gonna take a bite of altogether is the bowl with a little bit bigger when we started. It's 500 calories, 11 grams of fiber 45 grams of protein and like 90% of the micronutrients that you would need in a day. Mushrooms, spinach meat, so take a little bite here.
It is quite tasty. I'm gonna let him bite so that you're not just sitting in silence while we chop. But kids has a little bit of hot sauce on the top which I had some earlier with it and it's also delicious. But all I can say is it's fantastic. And I'm a creature of habit I can easily see myself doing this
every day. So I would like to take credit for this. All I did is add the mushrooms but there are this is kind of a Kind of a staple in the bodybuilding world I didn't realize I started reading about this is what people will do this is they'll put spinach and meat. And they will use this for the whole week because then you add the mushrooms and now you've got the micronutrients. This is essentially a two bowls of this and you're done with all the protein that you need, all the micronutrients that you need and all the fiber that you actually need.
So and to be fair, I would say for some eating mushrooms sometimes is an acquired taste. And I don't I don't know that feeling because I don't remember a time of not liking mushrooms. But I would say that this is this is a dish that I would say is not heavy and mushroom flavor. When you when you agree like the way that it's kind of salted and put together definitely
it's almost hard to distinguish what is mushroom? Because they're so finely chopped. What is mushroom? And what is me every minute. You asked me
to kind of describe what are the and then you throughout the stir fry. But it's almost kind of like a super healthy stroganoff. It's kind of like a beef. stroganoff taste. Yeah, without strong mushroom tastes at all. And
I mean, I don't know, I think it's delicious. If I were to sit there if you're trying to watch your weight, and want to make sure that you eat healthy or even if people with intestinal problems. A lot of people can't handle gluten and a lot of people can't handle some some starches, which can result because of what we work in CBOE IVs. That can make it worse. This can be a very tolerable thing. And one of the things I really like about it is that you can get your body used to a certain thing every day. Yeah. And then you can start expanding your diet a little bit.
Yeah, I mean, it's really good. It's very, very clean. Like it's the the fullness that you get just from the the natural fat and protein that's in there is is noticeable. So you, you probably won't overeat it, you'll feel satisfied, and you won't have a letdown because there's not a bunch of high carb sugar content inside.
So let's talk about that. Why is this so satiating? Well, in on the Huberman lab, he talks about how your body your vagus nerve, actually sends an immediate signal that when it has reached a appropriate fat and amino acid content, that's the key here. So when you have a food that has a high amino acid content, and then in addition to the micronutrients, there is a immediate signal that sends to your brain and it turns on a hormone called leptin, leptin tells you that you're full, it's the exact opposite that happens in the food industry, which very highly processed packaged foods, they purposely make it with the emulsifiers, that it actually with the most fibers that make it shelf stable, but the emulsifiers actually do micro damage to that nerve. And that signal gets lost. So instead of turning on the unfold hormone, it turns on the I'm not getting enough nutrients called ghrelin, and you get hungrier, which is why you can eat a whole bag of Fritos or whatever your whatever, your crappy chip crappy chips or anything. Yeah, they the food industry hires PhDs, to figure out how to make it so that you will eat more of what they're making. If you're still hungry, you're still buying more products, because you're rifling through whatever they just sold you. So really simple way if you're fighting, I'm not gonna get so far as saying you're fighting food addiction, because I think that's a whole separate deal. But if you are somebody that fights cravings, a really good idea is to have something like this on hand, eat a cup of it, and then wait 15 minutes, then open up whatever device that you feel necessary that you have to do, because you're gonna end up eating less of it, because you've already turned on this hormone that says we've had enough.
Yeah, I agree. It makes sense. I mean, quite honestly, when I was much younger and coming out of college, I didn't have the best eating habits. I would say I was I was falling into the pattern of being an overeater because I wasn't satiated. What was
that crap that you would you would eat like a Yoo hoo. When
I was in college, yeah, it was called a milk jug. milk jug and a fried pie. I can't believe
mill, chugging fried pie and now we're talking
about chugging a five pie or sometimes I get a package ding dongs. Was that was the pinnacle health.
So the package ding dongs are there to make you eat more ding dongs that is for sure. And the nutritional value is essentially that's that So today, we were you were like we're gonna talk mushrooms. I'm like yeah, I want to talk mushrooms. let's get let's get into this. And first thing you said is you know, I hear these names, but I don't Is there any science on this? Or is this just people saying oh, you should eat Reishi or Lion's Mane or, or whatever. I think Chagos is another one that people always talk about in all these different ones. corta seps as one.
Sure. And how are we quantifying how I quote Find what we're measuring, and how do we qualify that the data is real. And it's we do that a lot.
So it fit in perfect. I'm so glad that you asked that today, because one of the reasons why I wanted to do this particular topic is because a study just came out not too long ago, like a few weeks ago, on in the Journal of functional foods, and the title of the study is the role of dietary edible mushrooms in the modulation of gut microbiota, right in our wheelhouse. Definitely. So how do these mushrooms affect your gastrointestinal tract? And how do they affect your microbiome? So that's what we're going to cover today. And it's really cool, because I learned a lot. They they're so powerful. And I mentioned earlier how we pulled the lid off of polyphenols. There are so many similarities in a different lane. Nice. So we talked so much, we've got so many episodes where we talk about the innate immune system, we talked about the adaptive immune system. In relation to polyphenols, we talked about the how the polyphenols will increase the diversity of your microbiome, how polyphenols get broken down into post biotic, anti inflammatory, anti aging products. And this is all based on the science of these PhDs who've shared with us their brilliant work, right? This is when I started reading this, I'm like, Oh my gosh, they're saying something so similar by a different mechanism. So let's just jump right in. This is a super sciency article. So I'm, if I get too weird with it, you know, dumb it down and come back because it's, it's really complex. It's equally complex as the first time we were discussing the policy and also Yeah, if you look back, we did an episode with Sylvia, Sylvia Molino, and her research was just insane. It talked about how she took these complex polyphenols that are in our trunk to the kabocha in the horse chestnut, and she showed that they get broken down into smaller phenolic compounds like ecgc, which is green tea extract and light course attend and these different things. They didn't get into how the mushrooms do this, but I suspect it would be something quite similar. Yeah, through a different arm because these aren't polyphenolic compounds, the same ones that we're talking we'd have to find a fungus Silvia, we would have to find a fungal equivalent of Silvia correct. So it's very sciency. I'm gonna try to cover just some highlights of certain types of mushrooms, some of the more common ones that you may have heard of, and they're it's very complex, but these mushrooms have a wide range of constituents like things called glycoproteins polysaccharides phenolic compounds, and tri terpenes. Okay, so we're talking about terpenes when we're talking about CBD and cannabis and things. Yeah. Alright, so the first one that they covered was Reishi. Now Reishi has been well known for its anti inflammatory, anti tumor, something I didn't know acetylcholine esterase inhibition. So we talked about that when we looked at the the the episode with Angie, what was the title of that one? Anyways, when we talk about dysautonomia, acetylcholine has a big role. If you read biohack your brain she's got supplements to increase your acetylcholine, they do that by decreasing acetylcholine, esterase. And ratio has significant anti allergic properties. So what these team of scientists did, and this is out of China, where mushrooms have been used for ever, so it's it's more widely accepted that that is a functional food. These guys summarize that Reishi influences the gut microbiota by improving the intestinal barrier, okay, improving the intestinal barrier function, increasing microbial diversity. And it does a shift where it reverses bad bacteria and increases good bacteria very specifically, Reishi consistently would decrease bacteroides and increase from from from acuities for MC teas anyways, for me, Curtis, remember, I'm gonna mispronounce it might get all over me for doing the the reservatrol versus resveratrol. So let's just assume that I mispronounce a few things once in a while. Alright. So what it does, by doing that is that significantly increases the short chain fatty acids and anti inflammatory post biotics. They don't describe it as that what they do describe is molecules are then converted from the polysaccharides into anti inflammatory constituents also, they're describing post biotics while using the term. So all of these things in the literature has been shown to help with sugar control, lipid control, weight management and immune regulation. So when you said earlier, is there any data on these guys that's what they did in this article, they summarize the data on Reishi and showed this is what it's used for. This is how it does that. And this is why it helps with sugar weight management lift an immune regulation.
Now well, I mean, you can even stop with this it'll Coleen be able to increase by stopping acetylcholine esterase. And that would be a benefit even by itself.
So that's Reishi. Lion's Mane is another super common one that you'll find in supplements. It's one of the more popular supplements for mushrooms. And it's mostly due to lion's mane. Some studies were shown, I think it was in the 90s. That Lion's Mane can actually help with nerve regeneration. So it's been used a lot in the neurology world. And the reason is, is they believe that the beta glucans that are in lion's mane, show an anti aging and neuronal regeneration property, the prebiotic component of the lion's mane has been shown to have a positive influence in changing the pH in the colon, which increases the ability of other bacteria to produce butyrate. And in inflammatory bowel disease models, ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease. It decreased the inflammatory cytokines intraluminal, that have been shown to cause the damage and we've talked a lot about cytokines and a ton about cytokines. While once again, it improves the microbial diversity. And specifically, it has been shown to control the amount of Clostridium difficile that has been produced c diff is something really bad. If you don't know what it is good. If you know what it is. I'm sorry, you probably had it. That usually takes place when your microbial diversity gets shrunk down due to antibiotics. And then the C diff takes off unchecked. Now studies also show that Lion's Mane proteins are similar to immunoglobulins, like ag G. So structurally, these proteins look a lot like well, you might know it as SBI or colostrum. That's the immunoglobulins. And so those are the things that your body produces to help fight infections. Correct. So it looks like that. And this can result in this anti allergy anti tumor effect. And so there's so many studies going on with Lion's Mane right now. Not so much in the Western world. But there's a lot of studies going on in the Eastern medicine world looking at that. I mentioned shittaka earlier, do you have something to say about life? I was
gonna say I mean, we've all young gone in to and both from Reishi to lion's mane, there's a little crossover. And when you mentioned neurogenesis possible neurogenesis with lion's mane, it reminds me there's there are other mushrooms, too, that we're not going to cover today.
Oh, no, no, no, we're gonna cover all of them. We only have 1 million for a really long episode. But it's cool though, just like just like traditional plants that we that we're that we're used to talking about, there's going to be some crossover and benefit from the way that certain fungi performs. I guess what I'm trying to say because there are other neurogenic or Yeah, neurogenic properties of other mushrooms or other acetylcholine boosters and other mushrooms. Anyway, I just kind of point that out there. There's absolutely complimentary aspect. And they kind of get into that in the fantastic fungi about how there's this symbiotic, sometimes competing, depending on what needs to be done. Some mushrooms will augment each other, some mushrooms will repel others. And this is kind of what it's showing that from a nutritional value these things do kind of the same thing in a slightly different way. Yeah, well, they're all kind of doing it. Like for instance, shotoku mushroom in colon studies, is a potent anti inflammatory specifically, the studies that they referenced, it showed that it decreased interleukin six, TNF alpha inducible nitric oxide, and we know that these are all things we've talked about in prior episodes, usually related to polyphenols and Cox two, while it increases the anti inflammatory cytokine called interleukin 10. Very similar to what the polyphenols have been shown to do, they've just been studied a little bit more over here.
So Cox two just as a reference, if you've ever taken aspirin or anything similar to aspirin, you're, you're you're basically blocking coxy with that this is a this is nature's way of at least injecting itself into stopping that kind of inflammatory process.
Exactly. So she Taki also, what's really cool about photography is that the studies have focused on its effect on the brain. More specifically, multiple studies have shown that it can help with anxiety and depression. Now this is through something that you're very familiar with. It increases BDNF brain derived neurotrophic factor. Yeah, brain derived neurotrophic factor and decreases something else. You're very familiar with. Nf Kappa beta?
Oh, yeah. Are you talking about those two?
So these so NF Kappa beta is like the first domino that starts a whole process of inflammation. And if that's always being tipped, that's chronic inflammation. BDNF is a Protein mood says it's a factor. So let's just call it a protein. Yeah. So it's a protein that crosses the blood blood brain barrier, and helps decrease inflammation in the brain and helps clear out toxic aspects of it. So BDNF is one of the reasons that have been shown that eating a diet high in polyphenols increases your BDNF. Now we've got a shotoku mushroom here that actually has been shown to do something similar. That's super cool. It's really wild. Now as well, it increases nerve growth factor. So Dr. philomela will love this because she has a whole section in her book about nerve growth factor, and increases neurogenesis in the hippocampus. In biohack. Your brain she explains what the hippocampus does, and how important it is and how relevant it is to memory. And how you can regrow these nerves and people didn't think that we could forever I was taught in med school once you once a nerve dies, you're done.
So what are we dealing with today with our aging population increase in incidence of dementia? So possibly an early intervention with shotoku mushrooms could be could be something that could be arming your body to help that.
Yeah. The one another one that they discussed, which I'm unfamiliar with, but it was listed in this nutritional roundup that I found on mushrooms, it's called my Taki. Otherwise known as hen of the woods. You've heard of Yeah,
all of the time. My dad often talked about my turkey. And I always knew he was talking about his hand that was always stuck
in the woods. While he named his hand, my talkie.
Yeah, well, he didn't want it to be your talking. So yeah, something like that. Terrible, stupid joke. Really, you
know what? It's okay. You don't have Mac around to listen to your bad dad jokes. It's okay. You can call me out mostly just by complete disinterest. So in other words, your dad's talkie. Yeah, show that it was it's it's Richard and phenolic compounds. So it actually has some of these problems. Not the ones we talked about ones that I've never heard of, but they're phenolic compounds nonetheless. And it has high levels of these beta glucans, which are very unique to cell walls, but it's the beta glucans that make these mushrooms functional foods. Studies have shown that has an increased and profound effect on increasing anti inflammatory microbial species. So basically, they show that it will increase the species of your microbiome, which will keep bad bacteria in check, right? It's kind of that whole yin and yang type thing. And increases short chain fatty acids producing species of bacteria. So it was really cool about the my Taki is that it seems to focus more on the surrounding environment of bacteria, so that these other mushrooms can let those bacteria break them down into good things. So it's all about signaling and getting the bacteria to grow, kind of like we talked about with spore based biotics, where they signal to have more of these less of these, it's it's trying to manipulate this stuff after after we get further and further into it, trying to say, oh, we're going to turn this into a drug. So it does this one thing, you start realizing this is way more complex than we could ever single handedly manipulate 100%. So basically, it still works as a prebiotic, and it helps produce all these other beneficial bacteria. So we're not actually going to cover the other 1,000,499 94 or whatever we did. But to summarize, these were the only ones that they actually looked at in this article, because the articles thick and they went into tremendous detail in each one. But to summarize it, edible mushrooms like this have a very positive effect on regulating dysbiosis. So your microbiome, maintaining the balance of good to bad bacteria ratios, increasing short chain fatty acids, specifically butyrate. The searching fatty acids result in all kinds of benefits across your body, including blood sugar control, blood pressure control, weight management, and brain health all of this together. So now, if you think about this, these mushrooms work different than the large stable polyphenols, like I was saying, but there's a lot of overlap.
Sure. So it's a compliment. It's a compliment.
I'm starting to see this beautiful Venn diagram. So our food right here, amino acids in the meat. We've got a bunch of polyphenols, colorful plate being in there with the spinach and the zucchini and then all those mushrooms are in here. That is a Super Bowl.
Yeah. And it's it's super good. Period.
So that is our first take on mushrooms. We've never done a mushroom episode.
Now we haven't and I'm just gonna go ahead and reveal it. We've got a series of some pretty awesome guests lined up to come in and really kind of school us on some really cool deep aspects of mushrooms, the applications, how to find out what to look for If you're utilizing mushrooms to improve gut health are similar.
So this whole mycology world is really neat once you start showing a little interest. There were, I mean, we've got people were emailing people right now like I would love to come on the show, can we talk about this? I'm like, wow, that's wild loved fun, eventually work our way through to whatever. And if you guys have any things you want to find out, like, you know, talk about what the How would you go about? What's the best way to things? I'm thinking about? What's the best way to learn how to find mushrooms in the wild, what's the best way? What are the best supplements that would, you know, augment if I'm trying to achieve certain things? What are the side effects? Yeah, so we've got a great natural path, who's dealt with this a lot uses mushrooms as a consultant. And he goes, I would really like to talk about some of the cons because all you hear is, you know, the pros. And that's great. Also, I want to get into that we've got all kinds of stuff. I think
it's really cool that we're catching up on this subject matter, too, because actually, when we did have Cooper on it was fascinating. And at the same time, I felt just really inadequate to keep up on the subject matter because he was he was a completely different country. And we were stuck here going, I'm not sure I'm following every single thing that he's saying. But
all the way just from him saying, remember, it's the mycelium. It's the mycelium, and I know we're alive at the time. So it's like
yeah, it was it was like that. And since that time, we've we've actually were inspired by Cooper to kind of really start digging in deep, and it's paid off. And it's, I'm excited to have the next two, maybe even three guests. Join us here.
I mean, eventually, if I can talk you into it, I want you to get another pig and we're gonna go truffle hunting.
Oh, can we truffle hunt here? I don't know. That that's what we're gonna have. We're gonna have a truffle expert. Join our Yeah, I don't really I don't know enough about
I mean, the way I see it, if you're if you're thinking about this, you're like, Okay, I've never really thought about mushrooms. If you're like me, never really thought about mushrooms. Now I'm realizing, if I've got my poly phenol ring here, and I know quite a bit about the endocannabinoid system over here, you need to fill that in. And now we're going to bring into third circle to form this Venn diagram kind of feels like they all augment each other in different ways in synergistic ways.
Definitely, yeah, no, it makes sense. The The proof is in the pudding. I think that the choosing the right things to complement what you eat and how you live your lifestyle, of course, still getting good sleep. But what's crazy is when you eat right, you select the right kinds of foods to eat, sleep actually becomes easier. functioning throughout the day, becoming more productive becomes easier,
for sure. And even when we've met with other experts, like the owners of four sigmatic and stuff, I didn't know what to ask. Yeah,
yeah, that actually that's that was really funny also, because we, we had just had Cooper on the show by the time we met Marcus. And I can remember I sit there Go, man, this is fantastic. What do we say to him?
Well, because we've heard we've heard all these people like like for SIG Matic for SIG Matic did a great job of advertising on different podcasts.
Yeah. But then, but they brought value
in doing it. Yes. 100%. And then I'll even hear Rogen talk about different, you know, defenders, there's mushroom coffees, and all this other stuff. This is the stuff I want to know. Yeah. Like they want to, like this is the stuff that you say, just go Do you want to improve your microbial diversity? Do you want to decrease inflammatory markers? That's not making a claim? Now, that's referencing studies that have been done? And I'm like, Well, yeah, I do. Yeah. So that makes sense. I'm going to start using so grass fed meat. Bag of fresh spinach, some spices, onion, zucchini, garlic, zucchini. And then really, every any mushroom you can get your hands on. Yeah, it adds bulk and adds micronutrients and picks that up and you got yourself several meals,
maybe pretty soon and I don't think we'll have it in time for production. We should throw the the recipe of and one of the show notes or something like that. Just to get some feedback on what people think of it.
Yeah, and you know what we'll do we'll hit up Gabrielle Lyon. Who, who's she's a great, brilliant doctor. I heard her on cell dinos podcast, and then her and I were talking one time where I was like, Hey, man, I heard you talk about that. She does this but without the mushrooms
now okay. She's a bodybuilder.
She's bodybuilder in great shape. And yeah, so yeah, if I can just take the time to do this. It's just a just I love it. It tastes so good.
It does taste very good.
And it's got the fiber in it and it's got the protein content and the micronutrients once again the fiber fiber fiber we do not get enough fiber in our diets
now now and this this is an easy way to make it
almost like a sneaky way to make it happen. It's like the anti food industry meals like Haha, yeah, you think it tastes good? You're not getting anything out of it.
You don't have to keep buying anything from you. Yeah. Well, that's gonna be it for that's going To be all for episode number 60. Be sure and tune in for our follow ups like and shared kin, anything to add.
Yeah, so we're really gaining some traction right now and having some fun, it would really mean a lot. If everyone just go to iTunes and like it, share it. Make some watches on YouTube because that getting some traction, there's a big deal. At Spotify, we're having some great guests lined up. And it's because we're getting a little attraction and I learned a lot from this. I love the questions that we get. So fire him our way, and we can help out. I know somebody is gonna ask, Well, wait a minute, I thought you're gonna talk about mushrooms. You didn't say anything about hallucinations or anything like that? No, no,
they are some of the 1.5 million that we haven't gotten to. Yeah,
just one of the 1.5 million. That's all y'all Great Day.
We'll see y'all soon. Have a great one episode
60 stay safe.
Eric Rieger 0:00
Hello gut check project fans and KB MD Health family. I hope you're having a great day. It's your host, Eric Rieger, soon to be joined by my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. It's Episode 59. And we have an awesome guest. This is Dr. Kristen Willeumier. She is a neuroscientist. That's right. a neuroscientist. She has groundbait goodness can talk groundbreaking, science driven plan for revitalising nourishing and rejuvenating your most essential asset, your brain. And she is the author of biohack your brain how to boost cognitive health, performance and power. It's essentially the first book to outline a strategy for COVID long hollers including those dealing with neurological issues. So you can see this is going to be an incredible episode. Let's get to our sponsors. Of course, it's artron to go to artron to calm or easy enough. Just go to love my tummy, calm and get your daily polyphenols. Guess what? This neuroscientist Dr. Wilma? Yeah, she says it's a great idea to do it for your brain. Also, we're not even making it up. So head to love my tummy, calm, pick up your own artron to today, not just for yourself, but for your family for your kids. Get them on it, protect them, given the polyphenols that they need daily artron to love nighttime e.com and of course, you can get Incredible Food unrefined bakery.com That's correct, unrefined bakery.com get 20% off of your entire first order. Just by using code, get check. That's the show that you're listening to get check 20% off your entire first order from unrefined bakery. It's incredible food. It's doesn't matter if you're keto, paleo, gluten free. And you're like me, I don't know if I can ever have an awesome tasting muffin again. Guess what they have developed incredible food at unrefined bakery. I don't know why I'm giving y'all such weird pauses in between zone my words, I guess because I'm looking at my notes and we're falling down regardless. last not least go to KB Md health.com kB Md health.com and use code GCP to take 20% off of any order, anytime. from Dr. Chris Brown's CBD or his combo signature packages, you can take 20% off of any order at any time at KB MD health calm. So just so you know is we had an episode number 59. We do an intro several minutes into a discussion with Dr. Willa Meyer. We started recording and just didn't want to lose some of the exchange that we had at the very beginning. So without further ado, here's Episode 59. With Dr. Kristen, will, Mr. neuroscientist.
Unknown Speaker 3:10
Oh my god, I had a patient last night who has ulcerative colitis and fainted and just got sent to the hospital. So she's in the hospital as we speak. Her colon is horrific. her brain. When I imaged it, it's it is off the charts anxiety. And so she's sort of the perfect illustration of, you know, the gut brain connection. And was it her anxiety that led to you know, the issues with a colon in the gut? I think so. Because she's very lean and fit and thin and healthy. But I said to her last night, I'm like you need to stay in the hospital, because she didn't she didn't want to stay but she fainted. And her her colon and her. It is it is a scary, you know situation that she's going through and and then I have a patient when I found out about your supplement, who he has horrible gas and bloating. I'm talking horrific. And he follows a lot of the dietary and nutraceutical recommendations. I mean, I've he's been a patient for my god almost a decade. But I'm learning about yourself and I'm like, wait, he needs to try this. So, you know, I was curious about the efficacy and yeah, I mean, I hear I'm like oh, I have questions for you.
Ken Brown 4:32
Oh yeah, we'll send you will send you our resorts and all that stuff. And yeah, the whole backstory of that what's really hilarious is because I'm I was going to do the same thing to you. Okay, because I am giving a talk to the ataxia society this Saturday. Oh, wow. I had off the record. I had sort of forgot that I committed to it and yeah, happens to be the person that started this is a very good friend of mine actually was by a med school roommate. That She allowed her to. And so her why now in life is yes, try and help those that have a taxi. And so that's why I applaud her. It's not to let you know it's a small population of people, but it's, you know, horrific for people who are only present. But the beauty is because of your book when talking about the total volume of the cerebellum versus having 50% of the neurons. So the whole talk I'm, I'm, if you don't mind, I wanted to ask before I do this, I would like to quote you in the book and sure, do some stuff and put it in the talk specifically, I would love for sure your supplements and your brain health diet and all that other stuff,
Unknown Speaker 5:43
I would be honoured. And the beautiful thing about the book, you know, sometimes people ask me why I wrote it. It's like, you know, there's brain health books out there there. People know about supplements, you can go on the internet, but I am, I am blown away by what I have seen using neuroimaging. So it's like the book was really guided by what we've seen clinically with imaging. And as you saw, when you read in the book, you There was a time I didn't believe in supplements, like, Oh, my God, these really weren't yet right there. Right. Yeah. It's, it's, it's amazing. So I think, you know, probably both you and I, when you're in the profession, and you actually, you can look up all the research papers in the world. But when you see the changes in patients, and you see it, the measurable changes, whether it's imaging or whether it's your labs that you do you know, I'm a huge fan, so So, yes, please go quote, I'm happy to help you, you can email me if you have any questions.
Ken Brown 6:49
I love that. Because I think that when I read your book, I was like, holy cow, we are speaking the same language here. Yeah. And the whole gut brain thing. And you know, what we should do is what that will just flow into this. Because Yeah, I think you're giving away a lot already kind of talking about everything. So here's what we're gonna do. I'm gonna Eric introduce you, but the podcast actually started about six minutes ago. Perfect. So if you're tuning in now, rewind it and do this. So
Eric Rieger 7:23
a very late introduction. This is taken away, Eric. Thank you. And this is episode number 59 of the gut check project. And if you've tuned in now, you've heard an awesome guest. This is Dr. Kristen Willem your she is a neuroscientist and she created this awesome book that that will actually she wrote this awesome book that Browns been holding up here. This is biohack your brain.
Ken Brown 7:49
Yay. And look how much handsomer I am with the book over my face. I love it. Okay, yeah. colour. Colour coordinated to the book as well, which I love.
Eric Rieger 8:05
Definitely, he definitely has. And basically this is biohack your brain and it's how to boost cognitive health performance and power. The first book to outline a strategy for COVID long hauls, including those dealing with neurological issues, cognitive decline, and brain fog. For years. Dr. William year has worked alongside with Dr. Daniel Amen. Rahman. Amen. Amen. who published over 30 books 70 articles just to just to prove the importance of brain health. Dr. Christian, William, your thank you so much for joining us on the gundry project. And I mean, what an awesome this is the probably one of the most unique coolest kickoffs of any podcast we've had yet. Amen. Amen. Amen.
Unknown Speaker 8:52
Well, well, first of all, thank you, too, both of you for inviting me to come on the podcast. I love talking to all things brain health, and gut health. And truth be told, I am a huge fan of gut health. I think brain health begins in the gut and it begins with every single item of food that you are putting into your mouth. Now, Eric gave a lovely introduction and I I should also share with your listening audience. So my background, I was the director of research for psychiatric clinic, outpatient psychiatric clinic, and I ran their clinical neuro imaging department. And so I have seen 1000s of brain scans are, by the time I left the clinic, we had over 130,000 scans. Why I love taking care of your gut and gut health is in psychiatry. One of the foundational principles we have whether we're addressing ATD ADHD, autism, anxiety, depression, OCD, PTSD, by Polar issues, the first thing we have to do is work on the eating patterns. What are the things that you are putting in your mouth? Because a lot of these psychiatric issues have inflammatory components. And where does inflammation start? in the gut? Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. That's right. So it's really such a pleasure to come here and speak with experts today, you know, in this field, and we can have a nice sort of melding of the minds of things that you've done things that we've done to really help support people's long term health.
Eric Rieger 10:35
Well, I was fired up whenever can ask if I mean, we always talk about guests we're going to bring on in. And we've been really fortunate to have some some awesome ones. But essentially, when he brought up your name, we began to delve into it the we've talked about gut brain access for real really since episode one.
Ken Brown 10:54
Yeah, it's just I think
Eric Rieger 10:57
it's Cornerstone as a
Ken Brown 10:58
gastroenterologist. So Alright, so let me tell you a little bit about how I found you. Oh, wait, love. Okay, please. Oh, my family is a tennis family. But and I mean, like tennis family like the family is in Florida right now playing and clay court nationals, I got both my daughter and my son doing it. And we got into this huge discussion with Naomi Osaka and the French Open, said that she was going to just sit out because the anxiety of doing the press conferences and all this stuff. So it became it became a dinner table discussion with my family, because the pressures that go on with the individual sports and this and that, and so I like I do, I'm like, oh, man, I gotta like help my kids. So let's up. How do I biohack sports performance and a PDF of somebody that did this interview with the Montana State Bobcat magazine. Like, this is a great article, and I didn't read your name until the very end, you know, you know, the interview performed by Kristen Wilmore. And I was like, Who is that? look you up and I'm like, holy cow. She's got a book called biohack. Your brain just came out. I'm all about edit all about working with professional athletes. And so then that turned into I actually have a very close friend Jr, who played for the San Francisco 40 Niners for 12 years and was, was the NFL player representative for CTE for a few years. And he's still works with Steve Young, and he had his he had his zoom 50th birthday party not too long ago, and the whole, there was like 40 people on there, and it was just Hall of Famers all over. So I called Jr. And I was like, dude, you should have done this whole aim. inclement thing. And oh, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 12:43
yeah. It's I'm still taking care of football players from I started back in 2009. You know, where we did our work with the first 100 players. But my God, we've had hundreds of players come in, and I've watched them over the course of time, some of them are getting better. Now, unfortunately, if you play collision based sport, and you don't really proactively take care of your brain health, you know, some of them now have ALS, Alzheimer's disease at younger ages than we see in the general population. So we start to expect to see these diseases of ageing and your sixth decade of life, seventh decade of life, but in the professional athletes, we're seeing them in their fifth decade of life. And the reason why it's not surprising and this sort of goes into my background as a neurobiologist was sort of the first 10 years of my career, I'm in the academic setting. And I'm a neurobiologist, studying things at the level of the single cell and working in Parkinson's and understanding how neurons communicate with one another, and also having a great concept of synaptic plasticity, right. We read about it in the literature, but I've actually watched my beautiful neurons make contacts with their neighbours, it's, it's really extraordinary when you have the the perspective of what synaptic plasticity is, and and the ability of these beautiful neurons, one single neuron in our central nervous system can make between 10,000 to 40,000 connections. And that's 86 billion neurons we have.
Ken Brown 14:18
I just want to clarify one thing. So like when you we hear about this like, and there's been a lot of discussion about neuroplasticity. Huberman has his podcast and people are talking about it. Could you just define that?
Unknown Speaker 14:31
Yeah, neural plasticity is just the ability of a neuron to make additional connections with its neighbours. So what As I was saying, one neuron can extend a branch out dentre and dendritic branch out and connect with other neurons. And the way that we sort of increase our brain capacity over time is to be able to make as many of those connections as we can. This is why as we get older, this concept of synaptic play density or neuro plasticity is just the ability of, again, a single neuron to continue making branches. And how does that happen? That happens when we learn new information. That's why it's so important to continue to learn as we age, because that's how we grow these connections. Other ways to grow new connections is through exercise. But I like the new learning piece. Because the one thing that people don't realise, and I know I tell a lot of these fun little I call them fun facts, but they're really important. Because the brain reaches full maturity around the age of 2530. After the age of 40, our brain volume, right starts to decrease about 5% per decade. So your brain volume can get smaller. And you know, that's one thing that could concern people, but it the synaptic plasticity can continue on throughout life. So that's why, you know, there's certain interventions we can do to help maintain brain volume, which is where the exercise is important. omega three fatty acids are really important. And then there's things we can do to help maintain synaptic plasticity so that we retain our memories, you know, and we have the ability to live and be centenarians and still be happy, like Betty White, who I love bringing up because the woman is 99 years old, actually, she she comes and visits people in the building that I live in here in Los Angeles. And she's beautiful, right? So I see her often. She just turned 99. And she thanked her agent, because her agent continues to give her scripts and continues to get her job. So this is a woman who is still memorising scripts at age 99. So that's somebody who is able to retain her memory. So when people who were in their 60s are like, Oh, I forget where I put things. She's actually working her memory consistently because it's a part of her job. So this is something that all of us just need to remember to do. Maybe we should all start memorising scripts, or grocery list or memory.
Ken Brown 17:11
I thought you wanted to be I thought you you wanted us to become an actress. I didn't know. We've already been told that we have faces for radio. Oh, that's right. Oh my gosh. So I heard I digress. No, I love what you're saying there because the new synapses. One of the coolest, Michael Pollan, and you quoted him in his book, The I don't remember all the books he's done, but he did did a series on he just came out with a new book about some anyways, how plants interact with our synapses and stuff. He quote, he said something that kind of made sense what you're talking about, he goes, it's been described that if you imagine a, a hill, that guts that had snow on it, everybody starts to sled on it, if you if you go down enough times, eventually makes a groove. And then you sat in that groove. And by doing certain things, you need to lay some new snowdown so that you can find a new path. And that's kind of what you're describing.
Unknown Speaker 18:15
That's what new learning is. It's creating new paths. And then we're, I apologise if you're hearing the lovely fire. Can you hear the fire trucks out there?
Ken Brown 18:28
It's la bursting in your door, we're gonna we're gonna raise the bond money for you
Unknown Speaker 18:33
might actually hear the Sons of Anarchy out there as well, sometimes. motorcycle gangs
Ken Brown 18:39
are a little different right now. We didn't quite have the effect in LA in New York. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 18:46
But no, he's absolutely correct. It's, you know, in neuroscience, we have this phrase neurons that fire together, wire together. And it's the circuits that get repeated the things that we do every day, the thoughts that we think the the information that we take in whether we're reading or learning something new, it's all our brain is a dynamic organ that is continuing to grow and change every single second with every input that we get light sound, what we read, right, what comes in through our visual centres, everything. So part of why I wrote this book is to make us more consciously aware of the things that are in our environment that are impacting our health and our well being and our brain health. And because most people want to figure out how to retain their memories as they age, that was another reason for the book. But really the biggest reason you you noted it is working with the athletes who are really struggling with brain issues at very early ages. And the fact that we saw we could restore brain function through various Simple dietary and lifestyle modifications that anybody listening to this podcast could do. I mean, there's, you know, we've got all the bells and whistles in the clinical setting the neurofeedback, the current transcranial magnetic stimulation, the hyperbaric oxygen therapies, you've got the IV therapies. But even doing all of those, everybody still has to do the lifestyle piece. And that's as important, as all of these other technologies that we have that for some people could be cost prohibitive, which is why I, you know, I put those things more towards the back of the book, but we can still talk about them, because a hyperbaric oxygen chamber can actually revascularize the brain. So you can grow new new vasculature. And if you think about participating in a collision based sport, like football, now, I was an equestrian. So I spent 10 years showing horses falling off of horses. So when I speak about working with athletes, they're very much I'm very connected with them, because I've had my fair share of head impacts. The difference being in football, you know, they've put accelerometers inside the helmets. And I've studied how many impacts football players are taking in high school in college. So on average, do you want to take a guess? This is kind of fun. Since I have you too. I'm going to average so guess the average number of impacts a high school football player is having per season,
Eric Rieger 21:37
I would imagine it's gonna be a few 1000. I don't know though.
Unknown Speaker 21:39
It's actually lower. So it's around 650. So per season. And then college is about 1300. So then, if you're talking about a football player who's played four years of high school, four years of college, you're getting about 8000 impacts. But then you've got the G force.
Ken Brown 22:02
So that so the impact is now you've got bigger, stronger people. So the impact is much greater at the college level.
Unknown Speaker 22:11
at the college level, exactly. So the average g force in high school is around 28 G's per impact. So you can say anywhere between 10 and impact could be as low as whatever note 10 G's as high as 150 G. So they're lower impact and high school in college, they were averaging around 68 G's.
Unknown Speaker 22:33
Yeah,
Eric Rieger 22:34
I got a quick question on that. I think that long ago, I heard that. Not only is obviously the increase in the impact, obviously can be more damaging, but the sheer repetitive nature of it itself is quite damaging. Even if it happens to just be over and over again, it's kind of like water torture,
Unknown Speaker 22:54
you hit the nail on the head. So that's the biggest issue. It's the repetitive sub concussive impacts that are damaging the individual cells. So you get the shearing and the tearing of the axons and the cells. And they now need the time to, you know, restore back to, you know, sort of try to get back to normal function. And, of course, if you're playing a game where football players are hitting, you know, every play of the game, the lineman might have three or four impacts per play. There was a paper that came out that actually not only measured the number of impacts, but measured the linear and rotational forces. And it was I think, across both high school and college, the average linear acceleration in G forces was 188,000, g forces to the very delicate neurons in your brain, the rotational acceleration was over 3 million, like radians per second squared. So you know, somebody can go through a whole High School and collegiate career and maybe not have a diagnosed concussion, because the concussion is just a temporary alteration of mental status after an impact to the head or chest with or without the loss of consciousness. So, you know, 10% of the people might have, you know, a loss of consciousness or amnesia, but they recover quite quickly. But it's all those repetitive sub concussive impacts that you're talking about Eric that are causing the damage at the level of the neurons that are then causing the tauopathy. That's what the chronic traumatic encephalopathy is, it's just a tauopathy right, an accumulation of this misfolded abnormally folded tau protein phosphorylated tau protein, they're starting to see it first stage one CTS in the frontal lobes. And that shouldn't be surprising because football players hit the front part of their head right? The that's why they're spacey at first in the frontal lobes then stage two gets into the temporal lobes. And some parietal lobe stage three gets into the deeper cortical structures like the amygdala, hippocampus and Toronto cortex. And then stage four is now getting into the brainstem
Eric Rieger 25:12
changed since then, but I mean, I can remember playing and you didn't know to complain, unless, you know, unless you're injured, you know, Are you injured? Are you hurt? And that was kind of the, the thought process, you know, almost 30 years ago was to make certain that you don't complain unless you actually could show an injury. But nobody was really doing anything about brain injury that at that point in time, and I know that it's improved somewhat, but unless I'm falling down and throwing up or they feel like the spots, nobody ever stopped,
Unknown Speaker 25:45
you probably went back in the game after you throw up because I've watched you watch men play sports, rugby, it's like, Okay, I'm ready to go back. And plus, you have the adrenaline. I mean, I. So I was a competitive show jumper, I had several horses, one of my horses was a thoroughbred, off the racetrack, and I the fences, I would jump were four foot three, four foot nine. And I would race at them. I mean, I was a crazy, sort of, I was a maverick, I loved it. So I and I've fallen off hundreds of times. The differences, you know, the differences with football, that's a game where the impacts are coming. You know, you've got repetitive impacts on every play. Well, you may not you may only play 12 or 14 or 16 games a season. It's also the practice games. So you if you start to read the papers and say sometimes there's 95, practice games, and then 12 games in your season. So that's actually a lot of impacts that are happening. Now. You know, I don't I don't know what is going to happen with football. And there are certainly people who you know, have an extended career. I mean, we've worked with players, one of the players that was in our study, played 12. So he went to UCLA defensive lineman, his name's Fred McNeil. He played for the Minnesota Vikings was a first round draft pick, I believe pick number 17. Played 12 seasons on the Vikings played in a Super Bowl, they never won. When he left the NFL, he went to law school, I can't remember where he went. He went to law school, graduated valedictorian of his class, then became a partner in his law firm. So here's somebody who, right high school, I think he had a 22 year lifetime, sort of risk of from playing football, so 22 years in the game, but still was able to go to law school afterwards. It was clearly really smart. At the age of 57, is when he came in to our study, and he just came in to see what his brain look like. And when we did the brain imaging, the scan showed Frontotemporal dementia. So we saw low blood flow in the frontal lobe and the temporal lobes, he did not know he had that. But he knew he was struggling with depression, he was having memory issues, but he was still working. So then we sent him to the neurologist worked with him for seven years, he ended up getting diagnosed with ALS, and passing away at the age of 63. The reason why I share his story is he's the illustration of somebody can play football, and then have a 20 year 25 year period where they're just living their life. And then all of a sudden, you have the degenerative disease hit quickly. And we know you know in the world of neurology and neuroscience and neuroimaging, we know degenerative changes happen in the brain 1520 years at the cellular level before you have a symptom. So that's what's happening with the players. It's just happening earlier, which is why I think anybody who plays a collision baseboard should be on a brain health protocol. And that's just about being really mindful about the foods you eat. You know, I really wouldn't recommend drinking a lot of alcohol. It's not great for the brain. I mean, there, there's a lot of very intuitive things, and I talked about that in the book. But you have to be serious about it if you don't want to spend your 6/7 or eighth decade of life dealing with these issues. And because I was in a psychiatric clinic, we also worked with the underlying psychiatric problems, right? That they have a greater risk of depression and anxiety. So getting those things treated, is really helpful, and sort of having a better quality of life.
Ken Brown 29:38
So I just want to say this. After reading the book, I want to eat your brain right now. Because what you're talking about is so cool. But in your book, you do a step wise process to prevent this from happening. So anybody that's listening, even if you're not into the science that we're going to get into because it's it's it's beautiful. Well, I think that the, that when a neuroscientist like yourself comes from a background of research and you, you're wise to protect the brain. And my why actually, and we've talked about this is if I had one goal that I can do in my lifetime would be to prevent dementia. And the reason is, is that I believe that memories have no price, I would prefer to buy a memory than buy a thing. And I gotta teach my kids this that yes. And so as we live our life, if those memories get stolen from you, in my mind, that is, that is a life wasted in your own mind, although it isn't for the others around you, but in your own mind. So if I could do one thing, and what we are seeing in my world is gastroenterologist is that when we see Alzheimer's, dementia and Parkinson's, present with gut issues 20 years before.
Unknown Speaker 30:53
So you see the 20 year language, you see the 20 year note you saw, and I wrote about this in my book, my father ended up having Parkinson's. And you will appreciate this. And I didn't really go into it in the book, but you know, he, so he's a combat helicopter pilot in Vietnam, two tours, but exposed to Agent Orange. And then was a pilot for Pan American. So of course, there's all of the exhaust and things that you're exposed to and was a fireman. But my dad six for healthy, lean fit, no issues, no Parkinson's in our family, no psychiatric issues in our family. So I found it interesting about the age of 50 is when the tremor started coming on. You know, he was diagnosed later in his 70s and then passed away at 78. But he ate very healthy My dad was one of those people who is juicing and clean eating, I feel the glyphosate, whatever, the roundup whatever's in the Agent Orange, I feel my dad's issues really stem from that. And that all eradicates the healthy bacteria in your gut. And so I really for him, I feel environmental exposure was, you know, predominant in his parkinsonian issues. And, you know, I'm, I'm really about how do we help people live their healthiest life. And in the book I go into when it comes to food, I really talked about the Mediterranean diet with a plant based, sort of, they call it plant predominant, you know, it's, I still would allow for people to have meat, but really when I was working with the player, so I talked about running a brain directed weight loss group for football players, which is really quite comical, because when, when Dr. Ayman said I was doing that I thought he was crazy. I'm like, these guys are elite athletes, they already know how to work out be lean, but they actually weren't lean. When we were working with them, some of them work because they were active players. And some of them were older, so I had to get them slim. So it would help their brain health because we know excess inflammation in the body damages the brain and we publish research on that. But where does the information come from? It comes from the food. And it comes in the gut. And this is such a great teaching moment. And I'm here because I would love to learn from you. I mean, the meat What can I just ask you? What is your stance on me?
Ken Brown 33:37
My staff. So I've tried to be open minded about everything. And it's like all things. So when game changers came out on Netflix, yeah, like that's it. I'm all plant based. I'm going to be an elite athlete and I did the stupid thing which was I tried to do the meat substitutes and stuff like that, which I didn't possible burger. I didn't even well not that but whatever it was, I mean, and so then I realised that in there so I'm a big I'm gluten intolerant and didn't realise that they use gluten as fillers all sort of stuff. So that was I Eric will laugh at this pretty much everything I do I will just dive into an obscene levels now pretty much.
Eric Rieger 34:23
Pretty much that's just the male brain I applaud that.
Ken Brown 34:28
They come out with these scars be like don't do that. But like don't do it that way. I actually believe the way that I try to eat is mostly I'm okay with me. I tried to do grass fed grass finished beef. brasco originally, so it would My my, my dad would roll over in his grave. He was actually a butcher so it would be difficult to actually deny.
Unknown Speaker 34:56
a butcher Okay, I find okay. This is really fascinating. Your dad was a butcher and your gastroenterologist, and you read books like The China Study, which talk about the inflammatory nature of meat, and how it can release the bacterial endotoxins in your gut, and that can be inflammatory. So do you recommend that people keep meat down to one meal per day? limited to once per week.
Ken Brown 35:31
So this is a great jumping off point and spotlight off me real quick, because one of the things I loved in your book was chapter one was pretty much or maybe it was chapter two, where you're like, if I can ask you to do one thing, it's quit eating processed food. Yep. Yeah. So yes, I'm the same way. So when you say what do you tell your patients I, I struggle with? Let's avoid high fructose corn syrup, and saturated fatty acids. Let's get rid of those emulsifiers everything that you talked in your book? Yeah, that's hard enough to do. That's people doing that. So once you get into the it's like, a comedian was joking about it. He's like, yeah, my, my trainer neighbour was saying, maybe you're eating too much fruit as I was eating a doughnut, like, that's the problem.
Unknown Speaker 36:19
Right? The more fruit gets thrown out. And I'm like, No, you need the fruit. My God, you we need the antioxidants. As you know, in your supplement, which is polyphenols, right, we need our brain needs antioxidants, we need them from the diet, I feel it's the number one way to help preserve your long term brain health. Because the there's such a delicate balance between free radical production in the brain and antioxidant capacity. And free radicals are produced just by you know, metabolism. So we need to make sure our diet in our diet every single day, we're getting antioxidants. And I sort of made when I taught the Mediterranean diet to the football players and the patients in our psychiatric setting, it was very prescriptive. And I outlined the prescriptive nature of it in the book I I should have gone into it in more detail because people really seem to like it. But I make it like a pilot's checklist with people. And I just say, Hey, here's the things that I want you to get into your diet every day. We can modify, you know, if you're loving me, you know, well, meat can be inflammatory. And people, I'm going to find a really creative way, because I want them to stick with it for a lifetime. So I have a really sort of fun way of doing upgrades, but making it work for them. But the I really had a checklist for people, it was like, you know, three green leafy vegetables per day check, you know, one orange, red or yellow vegetable
Ken Brown 37:52
that was that was your adaption to the it's the mediterr.
Unknown Speaker 37:56
It's the Mediterranean diet.
Ken Brown 37:59
But but this is but this was your adaption when, in the part of the book where you said, This is my brain health diet. And yeah, you're saying that it's the Mediterranean with a checklist, you
Unknown Speaker 38:10
I gave it sort of in a prescriptive way. So people knew, you know, because like you said, everybody's unique, and they have the things that they love. And if you make it too difficult, they're just not going to do anything. And so sometimes the initial barter was, you know, if I was trying to limit somebody drinking too much coffee, and I talked about coffee in the book, because coffees a vasoconstrictor. And in the brain imaging world, we don't want to cause too much vasoconstriction. So I would make a barter, I'd say for every cup of coffee, I'd love for you to do a fresh green juice. And I would actually make it or I have, you know, sometimes they come in the clinic if I'm teaching it to a group of patients and be like, here, here's what it tastes like. You got to make it fun and accessible. So that's what I would do with following the diet. The The point being I need to get more clean, healthy nutrients in and let's try to get some of those processed foods and sugars and the things that you're very sort of used to eating out. And
Ken Brown 39:15
while I was just gonna say that what's interesting when you say used to eating as zero scientist, we know that if you look at the food industry, they hire very intelligent scientists to make junk food work on your brain. I've met with food chemists, I met them. Oh, yeah. Can you expand on that?
Unknown Speaker 39:35
Well, I just when we were designing supplements, sometimes you you know, you meet with people who are hired for that specific reason. And what do people love fat, sugar, salt, you know, it's very easy to put all of those things into, you know, a packaged food that's gonna sit on the shelf for however, you know, however long to be on the shelf, one of the most important things I would teach people, if anything, sometimes you just got to get down to the basics, right? Because if I can help somebody change one bad habit, we're already going to make progress. You know, sometimes my, the one habit that I would have everybody do is change how much the amount of fluids they were consuming in water. That's why I actually dedicate one chapter to water. It is so important. And I have my glass right here, you know, cheers. It's, you know, before food, sometimes I think the hydration piece is the piece that always gets lost. And when I made people chart there, how much water they were drinking, this was so fun. As a scientist, I charted everything, because I can't help somebody change something if I don't know what you're doing. And you might say, Oh, yeah, I drink enough water. And I'm like, Oh, I bet you don't. So let's, let's track how much water you're drinking and make sure you're drinking the right amount. And I would we, in my groups that I taught, I would say, let's not drink our calories. So let's get rid of all the juices, the sodas, let's just do water. And it's amazing how people who love soda, if that was the only thing they got rid of in one year, they could easily lose 20 pounds. So for me, for Burbank brain health perspective, if I'm getting you to just drink clean water every day with even if it's from your tap with a filter, fantastic. Let's get it out of a plastic bottle, because the BPA you know, from the plastics are not going to be great for your gut health. Number one, let alone your brain health. So let's try to have it in a glass. And, you know, I talk about I now get water bottled water, you know, that's actually a hyper oxygenated and slightly alkaline, I mean, you know, I can't help myself being in this field, you sometimes know too much. So you're going to go for the best. But I clean up the water, I try to get more of the green juicing in, because we know how important vegetables are. And if somebody just does not want to have a vegetable, a lot of times I can get them to do a fresh green juice that has lots of great enzymes. And you know, and we can get fruit in there. So I was really working on how do I unwind some of the really destructive habits that people just do repeatedly, you know, multiple times a day over the course of weeks, months, years, that are not really serving you. And that was I think that was the fun part of teaching those groups. It's like, Oh, my God, I Wow. And not only do I change their habits, then they're dropping weight like crazy. That's why I put a bunch of stories in there about people that had lost over 100 pounds. With me not. That's not even my area of expertise. And it was just happening because
Ken Brown 42:47
I mean your areas to change habits, which is changing brain, that's
Unknown Speaker 42:52
my area, my area of expertise is brains and brain imaging. But I you know, it was this really fascinating experience of watching people change their diet and very quickly lose weight. And seeing people who were in their 50s and 60s who didn't even think they could lose 10 pounds, lose 60 pounds in a year. Like, wow, I just shifted a few things in your diet, you just you I'm a cheerleader, probably like you. So I get really excited for people success. So I'm sure there was a synergy between myself and the players and the patients I work with and the you know, let's help you clean up the foods you're eating. And you know why they're important, especially because everybody that I work with, you know, to psychiatric clinic, we're also working to improve their mood. And the only way we can do that is by cleaning up those foods. Right, bringing the saturated fats down trying to bring down the saturated animal fats, bringing in more of the mono and polyunsaturated right healthy fats from plants and marine based, you know, omega threes and just it's about fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts and seeds, Whole Foods. It's not hard.
Eric Rieger 44:09
I got a quick question for you. Yeah, mentioned the green juice. Yes. And the you've mentioned also a few times that there may be technologies that may not have access because of cost. And for some people even time, right, you've mentioned green juice a couple of times what was an ideal green juice for someone to make at home.
Unknown Speaker 44:28
I love that. You know I mentioned green juice so much I started doing it 20 years ago. So I'm 4848 Now, every single day I've done some kind of green juice. Now I throw beets in it as well because I think it's an easy way to get a red you know something red in there. But I tell people just think green you know the base is typically celery or cucumber. And then you add kale, parsley, spinach edge, all throw in. I love pear So I put in a boss pair sometimes I put an apple in, sometimes they put a red bead in. The reason why I mentioned it is not only is it hydrating, so I drink usually 32 ounces of juice. So this morning, I start my day with two eight ounce glasses of water. The first is a water is clean water the second I usually put a little lemon in, then I do my juice, which is 32 ounces. So I you know the hydration is really how I like to start my day. And I feel that the juicing over time and I'm asking you the gastroenterologist and I've read about this, I'm actually priming my gut with these very healthy, nourishing enzyme rich fluids because the polyphenols and the vitamins and the nutrients that are in the greens are critical for your gut health and every single food you eat. Correct is helping to populate either good or bad bacteria. Dr. Brown?
Ken Brown 46:04
Yes. Read in your book when I told my patients to do this. And they said, What do you mean by green? I'm like, I don't know if it's green. Just do it. And so then they were like I'm doing green m&ms. I'm doing green Skittles with this
Unknown Speaker 46:16
Skittles.
Ken Brown 46:16
So maybe I should have looked more into what you meant by the greens. Thank you for asking that question, Eric. Yeah, I
Eric Rieger 46:22
just wanted to set you straight because I knew this was a problem.
Ken Brown 46:25
My patients were gaining weight, and they're just like, I'm like, so what are you doing now? They're like, I do one sprig of spinach, one sprig of kale and green m&m.
Eric Rieger 46:33
Yeah, I was doing today. green juice out of a sour patch. And I got diabetes. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 46:40
I'm coming after you, Dr. Brown. Yeah. You know what, I had fun having the football players do it, they all the coolest thing about working with pro athletes is they will do anything you tell them. And because they trust me, so I'm like, Come on, guys, here's what we're going to do, right, to get them to lose weight, I had to the volume of food that they were eating each day was around 4500 calories. So first of all, we're, you know, we're not at training table anymore. So you know, bring that down. And I did sort of the creative thing where, you know, if you can keep your meals from 500 calories, you know, if you can, you can have a burrito, that's 2000 calories. That's, that's a whole day's worth of calories in one meal. So I would creatively say, hey, whatever you're eating at noon, let's cut it in half and have your first part at noon, I say, you can have your second part at 130. If you're still hungry, and I did that at dinner, I said dinner, you can have your dinner, whatever at seven, and then at 815, if you're still hungry, you can have the other half. So you have to get I just had so much fun being creative with how in all my players were losing weight, so players were losing weight. And my mentor was like you're teaching this in our psychiatric clinic, I'm like I am okay. And it just kept going. It was this really beautiful. Because watching people change their foods, their bodies change, I knew their brain health would change for the better. And then we used the nutraceuticals. For the for the pro athletes, really to help support blood flow to the brain boost certain neurotransmitters, right? that are really important in memory. Because most people don't realise after the age of 40 is when our neurotransmitters, systems, we don't tend to make as many and that's how we start getting diseases like Parkinson's, that's the dopamine, you know, system is not functioning as optimally as it could and, you know, all simers, you know, we're talking about acetylcholine. So, you know, I mentioned in my book, you know, everyone over the age of 40 would probably be smart to take a whole food multivitamin, just for your brain health. So there was a nutraceutical component here. That was again very helpful for the players, but the goal being to really help improve perfusion to the brain and, you know, help to you know, omega three fatty acids, for example, are really important in building the cells, the neurons in your brain and for that synaptic plasticity, you need to have the building blocks which are in the omega three fatty acids.
Ken Brown 49:25
Yeah, and in your book you do a fantastic job of describing these are your basics. This is the the first line starting
Unknown Speaker 49:32
lineup starting Yeah, kind of made it a fun word analogy, like starting lineup where you know, here six, basic nutraceuticals pretty much everybody can take them. You know, I always tell people run this by your doctor. I mean, I was the director of nutrition in nutraceuticals. So not only was I responsible for helping to create and study the efficacy of these products using brain imaging, but I worked with our psychiatric A population who is trying to get off of medications and using nutraceuticals as a way to support their, you know, manage anxiety, depression add. So this is why I really became a fan of them because I saw how effective they could be. And if we could do a nutraceutical approach versus a medicine that has more side effects. A nutraceutical approach is sort of a wiser way to go. But then you started to see, okay, here's your starting lineup, the basics everybody could do, I did what I call all star team. So if you want to take your nutraceuticals to the next level, here's, you know, five other things that I think are really important. And then what I did what I call the injured reserve, which is, these are the nutraceuticals, we use for patients with brain imaging, or I'm sorry, with brain injuries, or say you had chemotherapy, and you have chemo brain, you know, or we're working on, you've had a toxic exposure, too much alcohol, these are the things that can help to restore blood flow to the brain.
Ken Brown 51:06
What I loved about it is that you addressed initially, that you understood that people may not have the resources to get these, right to get these supplements. And then in addition to that, at each end of the paragraph, this is what you need to look for in the supplement which was awesome. Also, I was gonna do this. Yeah, look for GMP look for this, you if you're going to get a fish oil, look for the symbol for non mercury and this and that, that was beautiful. so that people can do their homework and not just walk into target, and go, Oh, this is what I'm going to grab our Walmart or whatever, and I'm right. But um, you know,
Unknown Speaker 51:40
thank you for that. It's, you know, it's really hard. You walk into a whole foods and you have just sort of the shelves that are lined with nutraceuticals. And you just don't know, what do I take? What don't I take the you ask the person there who's working there? Hey, which one's good? And I because I've seen how these things work in our patients and know the levels. You know, it's very nuanced. And, you know, prior to being in the brain imaging space, I you know, I wasn't really using nutraceutical so I have a very, I really appreciate how they work in the brain. And a consistent use of certain nutraceuticals over time can really support brain health. And I think more people, even those who are on the fence. I've watched some doctors who work more in that sort of traditional medic Western medical world who I know a lot of them still aren't on the nutraceutical bandwagon. But I've seen the older doctors who are in their 70s or 80s, pretty much everybody starts taking a nutraceutical at some point for their joints. I mean, omega three fatty acids and our NFL population when we started just giving them they had a minimum of two grammes of fish oil per day, they started to have less joint pain. Because omega threes are anti inflammatory. They're like, Wow, I didn't even know that. So it's some of these little things that I think are really very valuable.
Ken Brown 53:14
Absolutely. There's one thing that I do want because I need your help on this. Yes. After reading your book, so I'm a I'm a morning habit person, and I'm an evening habit person. Yes. And my OCD wife nuts that I will do the same thing, which well,
Unknown Speaker 53:31
really, I would think she'd like that as a person of ritual.
Ken Brown 53:34
ritual. It's how I how I end the ritual that bothers her. So for instance, I have tea every night, I've candle meal tea, but I hate enormous Amazon mug, and I will make it and I will sit and after a long day and we'll try and watch some TV. And inevitably I'll start dozing off and she'll fall asleep. Just go to bed and I will drink about this most of the tea. And then she gets mad at me. She's like, you waste all this to you after reading your book. I'm like, No, no, no, no, no. Dr. William, you're said after a night of sleeping, you have not had anything to drink. That's when I'm going to get up. That's why I make it so I can wake up and then I chugged my tea in the morning. So that's where I start my hydration process. You do i do do the Kevin meal tea in the morning as well. I do that. Not a health reason. But just because I don't want to be yelled up on the wife. I love eventually I will drink that.
Unknown Speaker 54:27
I love how she's like, okay, we're gonna make sure all of this tea gets drunk, do not fall asleep and not finish that tea. And I love it that it works very well for you as a sleep aid.
Ken Brown 54:39
Well, I think working really hard throughout the day, we're probably well, you know,
Unknown Speaker 54:45
I'm so coming from psychiatry, like more than 50% of people need help with sleep. It's just such a common thing. I was like, oh, it really works well for you. You're just exhausted. But they came a meal teas probably helping to
Ken Brown 54:59
say Hearing scientists and writing books and everything you just fall asleep. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 55:06
tell you something in our household. My husband is the real sensitive sleeper. He was super like, wakes up. He can wake up with me breathing like I could breathe too loud. He's like, Uh huh. And I fall asleep anywhere and everywhere. It's like a full shutdown.
Ken Brown 55:23
You know, what I think is going on with your husband that maybe you could comment that is okay. Your book? I believe? He has a large amygdala. Oh, yes. He probably. Yes, that chapter on that. And the whole amygdala thing, because I have Eric. We watched free solo with Alex hormone huddled hahnel. Three. Oh, have you seen free solo? No. Oh my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Okay. So basically, it's a movie about a guy who climbed El Capitan, with no gear at all, totally free solo.
Eric Rieger 56:05
He does it all the time.
Ken Brown 56:06
First person ever do it, and he just completely. But what was amazing is that he fell one time and it was a documentary. So his friend was, Oh, my, they didn't, you're gonna love this. They did an MRI on him. And they found that he has a little tiny amygdala, I no fear. No fear
Unknown Speaker 56:23
can probably if I'm probably impulsive, like there's that in our frontal lobes, you know, I think having a lower frontal lobe function might make you more impulsive and more of a risk taker. We see that with firefighters and police officers. I mean, what, what sane human being wants to run into a burning building like my father or, you know, be a chopper pilot in Vietnam? And, you know, yeah, I'm just going to go down and, you know, drop some people out picks up people, or a police officer or a free climber who has no gear and feels perfectly comfortable in that position. Somebody who, well feels very, you know what, that's somebody who does not fear death
Ken Brown 57:09
100% now? Uh huh. So he's a complete, unique individual. But in her book, you described how cortisol affects the amygdala can you get into that a little bit?
Unknown Speaker 57:21
Well, and how cortisol affects our brain, in general, my God, too much cortisol. So we have glucocorticoid receptors, a lot of them on our hippocampus, the area of the brain that is critical to learning and memory. So when we have chronic, unrelenting release of cortisol, like probably like most of us have done during the global pandemic. You know, our big our hippocampus can shrink. And we were talking about neuroplasticity, and synaptic plasticity, that that absolutely stops. So you have lower amounts of what we call BDNF or brain derived neurotrophic factor, which is what we need to help grow new neurons. Or that's
Ken Brown 58:07
another question, we're gonna talk about that next, just grow new neurons, neurons, because that was new to me. I was taught in med school, we can't do that. Okay, sorry,
Unknown Speaker 58:15
course you were taught in med school. No, but now we know the hippocampus, you can grow new neurons until you're 90. And I'll tell you, we need them in the hippocampus By that time, because, you know, I've seen a lot of, you know, we do volumetric, MRI, hippocampal, MRIs on people who are older with dementia, and you see that, you know, they shrink to the 14th percentile or fifth percentile. And then you wonder, you know, 100%, is where we want it. And, you know, as we age, that structure shrinks. And, you know, so I know, I'm getting off topic, I'm talking about the hippocampus, it's really important, because if we, if we don't maintain the hippocampal volume, we aren't going to be able to take all of the things that we learned during the day that are in our short term memory, all the new things, when we sleep, we take that information, and we consolidate it into our long term memory, but it has to go through the hippocampus. And so it's really essential that that region of the brain, we want to continue to work it and continue to do the things to help those neurons grow. And that's exercise and new learning. Those are like the two amazing ways to do it. But back to our friend who's the free climber. So you're talking about stress and he clearly has
Ken Brown 59:32
well i was i always joked with Eric that I feel like when we watched him do this and I'm just like he's got no I feel like my amygdala is like, pushed it's like it's so large. Yeah, pushing my cerebral low because
Unknown Speaker 59:44
emotionally You're right, that amygdala gets activated during emotionally charged events. And that's what what makes it grow. So the amazing thing are the people who are able to find their centre are to be calm and to keep, you know, cortisol levels down. And my I will tell you my father was the combat helicopter pilot, he used to tell me when he was younger, he never feared dying in Vietnam, the only thing he feared was that if he died, his parents would have lost their only son. He loved it. He absolutely loved being a pilot loved it. He's like, I wouldn't even know all the death that he saw and getting shot at. And his funeral actually said, my dad took the you know, they give you the vest that you wear the bulletproof vest, he folded it sat on it, because all the firing was coming up underneath the chopper. Oh, but here's, I wish my dad was lead because he's so lovely. Just had just the beautiful spirit kind heart. And he taught me about not being afraid. He just, we can decide how we want to view things in life. I think the gentleman who's the free climber was probably not afraid of death. If he fell, he would he would fall doing something he loved. So I just think he, in his mind, his perspective on things such that, hey, I'm going to go out and have fun. I love doing this, right? It gets my adrenaline going. It makes me happy. It's my joy. It's my passion. And so, you know, he had no fear any trusted himself. He's done enough climbs with all of his gear, that he's like, I've done this, right. He's repeated the pathways. Remember you were talking earlier about Michael Pollan talking about what's you know, synaptic plasticity, and it's like going down the, the fresh snow and the sled and you keep repeating that, you know, event so that those tracks are really strong in the brain? Well, this gentleman clearly had done that as well. And he had confidence in himself. So it's more his levels were probably down, but
Ken Brown 1:01:57
it's so on that same line, when we're talking about repeating yourself and the tracks. Yeah, in chapter eight, you have a great chapter about controlling your emotions, both negative and positive thoughts and rumination and preventing that rumination? Can you talk about that, because that was the first time I've seen a neuroscience approach to what I would almost consider some form of meditation.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:20
It is what you know, most of us don't really reflect on the thoughts that we have, you know, and thoughts. Some of them come from internally, and some of them, you know, we just get from the people that were around. That's why I also think it's really smart. As we get older, we're selective on the people that we keep company with. Because sometimes, you know, there's the people that make us happy. And then there's the people that don't write that irritate us. You get that thought cycle. And you're like, ah, but in I write the chapter on thoughts, because, again, I worked in the field of psychiatry, and what is what do we tell people have anxiety or depression, you know, anxious, people are fearing the future. depressed people tend to be thinking about the past. Oh, put rumination, ruminating thoughts. People who have ruminating thoughts, sometimes those are the ones who have the OCD, right? There's, there's a neurobiological wiring in certain people's brains where they can't get off the feedback loop. And what I've learned, this is why I talk about meditation. If you are one of those people, with there's many ways to help address thoughts. I mean, you can talk to a therapist and sort of talk through them, you know, you can take them out of your head and write them on paper. That's why journaling works for some people, or the meditation process, the whole goal of meditation is to it's, it's like observing a thought it's, you're supposed to just let the thought come through and leave come through and leave not hold on to it. We've got techniques like EMDR, they're different therapies that we can do to work with people to help them resolve a trauma or get through a negative thought. Because if you're a firefighter, and you know, you've lost a comrade, or you've, you've watched somebody die, I mean, that's a traumatic experience your amygdala is going to get, it's going to it's going to grow, your cortisol levels are going to be up and you might have a form of PTSD. And you may relive that memory. It's why sleep is so important, because sleep is one of the times our brain can actually work through those emotions. We actually does it while we're sleeping. So we're able to then get up in the morning and be able to sort of process it. So thoughts are really you know, they happen, you get 50 to 70,000. And they're just happening second by second by second. It's what we hold on to which thoughts that we're going to hold on to or let go. So meditation is the process of allowing things to just flow and to be in the present moment, not worrying about Future, not worrying about the past being here like I'm here with you to right now and fully present completely engaged, totally entertained to her awesome. And that's what we have to teach people to do is to live more in the now and not fear the future or stay stuck in the past, but I have, I have such compassion for people because sometimes there's the neurobiological wiring of the brain keeps people in these certain patterns. For example, you might have in your family, you might have OCD, or anxiety disorder. So to tell somebody with an anxiety disorder not to let your thoughts bother you. Well, that's, that's a wiring that they have. And we may need to do use some supplements like gamma to calm that region down. We might want to use some neurofeedback to help teach your brain to kind of calm that wiring down. Um, there are certain foods that you can eat, right, that can help release gabbeh that can calm that down, you can work with a therapist, so we have all of these modalities to help people redirect their thoughts. But the most important thing and I think you've probably learned that from the chapter is that our thoughts impact our body impact our physiology, right, our thoughts can increase our cortisol levels, like I could be sitting here talking to you right now and be super nervous. I'm not because you're, you two are so lovely. And it's a lot of fun. But in my mind, I could work myself up and get myself anxious and my heart rate goes up and my blood pressure goes up, my cortisol goes up, and then my gut could get all, you know, butterfly. So that's the power of our mind. And
Eric Rieger 1:06:44
I was gonna ask you, do you think because what you're outlining when you talk about somebody who suffers from anxiety, or really any type of issue? Oh, do you think they're we're going to get to a point where when someone goes in for an element of depression, or anxiety, etc, it's going to be more mainstream at some point, that we begin to go through their diet history, their exercise history, and you said to yourself being present. So when you're with someone, are you putting your phone down all of these different things, before we leap into a prescriptive measure? Because it seems as if over the last 40 years, reaching for the pill, is it's just been the easy, quick fix. And in ultimately, what we're learning over the last four decades is that's
Ken Brown 1:07:31
That's no way to live. Before you comment, I just want to say what's happening right now in the medical world is that in an intake evaluation, when you go to a primary care doctor, they are obligated to, to check certain boxes so that they can Yeah, when is this depression questionnaire? And if they score a certain amount? Yeah, they'll address it in the addressing is always or I shouldn't say always, almost always are often when they score a certain number if you if you're meeting certain metrics you against it. And the way to address it is by giving an SSRI, you are you obligated to do that? So it's like a DSM five. This is more of the primary care thing. So I see these when they come to me because yeah, as as you've already, you know, as you've already pointed out, I I the backwards, I don't think I ever treat a gut without treating a brain and the brain without treating the gut. So well. Yeah. But what Eric is saying is exactly right. So I just before you commented, I want you to know that the medical industry is sort of encouraging this pharmaceutical approach,
Unknown Speaker 1:08:41
I have compassion, and I can sort of put myself in everybody's shoes. You know, I have a unique perspective, because I worked in a psychiatric clinic where we do brain imaging on patients. And the reason why is the kind of patients that were coming into our clinic have complex comorbid psychiatric disorders. So they've typically failed. Three previous psychiatrists, they have on average, three to four psychiatric diagnoses are on five to six meds, and they're still struggling. So we use quantitative eg, and, you know, functional imaging to see what's going on. How is their brain working? And how can we use the most natural approaches first, and we can see based on the way the wiring is, which medications are going to be better? Do they need an SSRI? Do they need an snri?
Ken Brown 1:09:32
I'm so sorry to interrupt you, but what you just said is fascinating to me. You said based on the imaging, you can choose what corrections Oh, yeah, you count. That's a whole nother podcast. It was gosh, oh, yeah. And I really didn't have room in the book to get into that. But that raises the book.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:52
Yeah. The book is about inspiring people to take better care of their brain health and talking about what we did with a football player. And how we were able to restore some function in their brain. But this is, yeah, I have compassion because I understand doctors who see patients, you know, there's the standard anxiety medications. There's the standard psychiatric depression, anti depressant medications. And you're basically just trying to figure it out, like which box Am I ticking, right? If you want an snri, you want to give that to somebody who has a DD symptoms, and depression, right? Because you want to stimulate and calm the brain simultaneously. Whereas an SSRI you want to give if we're just working on calming the brain, like if somebody who has OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder has too much activity and the anterior cingulate gyrus, which is in sort of the front part of the brain, the frontal lobes, and it's just working too hard. So we want to calm that down. And an SSRI can do that very well. However, if somebody comes in and they're depressed, and they have low perfusion in the frontal lobes, an SSRI could actually decrease perfusion even more decrease, and that could, that's what leads to the suicidal issue. So you have to be really mindful, and that's where the neuro imaging can be so helpful. And again, you know, we think about how do we really help the patient? How can we get their diet, you know, structured in a way to create the neurotransmitters, right? That's, that's going to help, you know, omega three fatty acids. I don't care that we care whether you have ADD anxiety, depression, any kind of mood issue, you need to have an omega three fatty acid, we're starting to see in the medical literature in the traditional medical literature, like JAMA, published a paper that showed two grammes of an omega three fatty acid can help people with clinical anxiety. And that's, you know, coming from, you know, a very prestigious medical journal that's really advanced.
Ken Brown 1:12:01
So I want to comment on that, because right now, the omega three fatty acids or fish oil, for whatever reason, there's, it's this movement, that large, meta analysis regarding cardiac health, it does not show that and so my patients I quit taking it, because I heard that study that they talked about on Good Morning America, one study, yeah, the one study and I'm like, Look, I don't care about that for your heart. I know it helps your brain so get back on.
Unknown Speaker 1:12:28
Well, how about how about just as a blood thinner, I mean, how many people are taking 81 milligrammes of baby aspirin, right as a prophylactic to help keep their blood thin? Well, omega three fatty acids are great, you can do a vegan omega if you do not want to, you know, eat fish, if you're vegetarian or vegan, do a vegan EPA da ha, the thing with fish oils that I found very interesting as we would measure omega three fatty acid levels in patients and we found them to be very low. So most people aren't getting enough in their diet. They're just not eating enough. You know, chia and flax seeds and almonds and walnuts. I mean, I do every day. But it's like I'm a brain health person, I actually know how crazy they are. So I pretty much eat them every day religiously, plus take my omega three fatty acid supplements. But I think cardiologists should like them as blood thinners. And, you know, neurologists should support them, because they help maintain brain structure. They don't feel right now that they're helping cognitively. But we know it helps literally at the level of the single cell, the cell membrane, it helps with the stability of the membrane, it helps with the receptors that sit in the cell membrane. And we know, you know, a lot of them cell membranes in the brain and retina are comprised of da j and it literally grows brain volume. There's published papers on this and if you don't want to take a supplement, because you're not there yet, one serving of baked or broiled fish every week will do the trick. So get your fish and you know, just put it on your like, I call it my pilot's checklist, okay, you're gonna get your fish and you know, each week it's just really smart
Ken Brown 1:14:22
to do what I love. Now we're just sitting thinking I was like, Oh my gosh, my hospitals in Ohio so I'm part of a large nationwide hospital network that I have privileges. I'm not. I don't work a whole lot in the hospital. Eric seen it. They have a physician lounge where they give free food to the doctors. Oh, yeah. Oh my. No, my lats gross. It's so gross. And it's and everything you're talking about. And then when people talk diets, they always want to say oh, this is the fad diet to lose weight. Oh, this is the you want to go keto here. You want to go vegan here. What you're talking about is a brain health diet. That actually does all of that. That's how come your brain health diet was able to help people lose weight
Eric Rieger 1:15:04
it was and that's that's another thing is you don't have to eat for your brain you don't have to eat for your gut, you don't have to eat just because you want good nails if you're eating the right things. Everything is I mean they were everything changes
Unknown Speaker 1:15:18
everything. If you eat clean, healthy foods, everything changes, your gut is happier, your brain is happier, your waistline is slimmer, you're sleeping better. And that's why it doesn't have to be hard. But I've realised working with 1000s of patients right over the past decade, and making them do the food journals. Usually I have them do the journal for about 10 weeks, 12 weeks. So if we're stumbling somewhere, I can take a quick look and see where we're, we've gone awry, and get them back on track. But you saw the stories I put in the book, my God, people stay on them for you. Literally they stand them for years, I could have somebody come on the podcast with me and they can just rave and go, Oh my god, I you know, I got my little food scale. Everybody does it a little differently. But it's funny, you can have many ways to get to the same endpoint, which is great brain health.
Ken Brown 1:16:11
So the book is fantastic. And I don't want to take up too much more of your time. Because your time is, this is so fun. Well, I really enjoy anybody listening, the bio hack your brain. What I love is you open with the easiest thing. Yes. You get to the point where it's like, Look, this is this. And if you don't want to overthink your diet, I'm going to give you a checklist to do. Yeah. And then towards the back. You threw a couple things out and one of them while I have you here. Yeah, it was like a paragraph and URL visual training. Yeah. What is that?
Unknown Speaker 1:16:50
Yeah, that's so cool. It's funny, I learned about that with the professional athletes. And they are starting to do that now where you can go and train. There's a thing called the Dyna vision board there. It's not cheap. But you can, a lot of the pro athletes do it, where they the board will have things that light up. And you have to very quickly, you know, as quickly as you can hit the lights, right? And then they it's, it's actually really fun. I wanted to buy one for myself just to like work on the information processing speed and efficiency in my brain. And the football players use it because the game moves so quickly. And you have to see things in your peripheral vision as well as frontal. So not only can they do the board with the little pegs lighting up and you have to sometimes you do left handed sometimes you do right. Sometimes they'll put little cognitive games in there, like in between. So it's it's extraordinary. And of course, you know, pro athletes and athletes are always fake trying to figure out how do we up level our game, just like a lot of pro athletes know that the hyperbaric oxygen chamber is pretty amazing. And they're what's fascinating about hyperbaric oxygen, I will tell you because we studied it in our players and have published in it. One of our colleagues got the cover of the Journal of neuro trauma, we showed what hyperbaric oxygen therapy does to the brain after one session versus after 40, which is sort of what the standard recommendation is for somebody who has a traumatic brain injury. Even one session of hyperbaric oxygen helps increase blood flow you saw globally throughout the brain, you saw little increases all around. By the time you've got 40 sessions. I mean, you've really regrow new vasculature throughout the brain. And that, you know, I looked at that I thought to myself, wow, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, not hard to do. It's it's not inexpensive, it can cost 150 to $250 per died, you typically have to do 40 dives. No traumatic brain injury is not one of
Ken Brown 1:19:06
its bones. But you know what your your your brain is worth it right? Because it helps to drill it literally
Unknown Speaker 1:19:14
um, it's really like epigenetic. So it can upper down regulate up to 8000 genes, right? Down regulate pro inflammatory genes, you know, up regulate read expense, a hyperbaric
Ken Brown 1:19:28
chamber and a and a neuro visual training centre to the company. If we can have that. Maybe we can have Dr. willamina come down to Dallas and teach you how to use Yeah, I mean, be fine. These things sound I hope none of the invite or listen. You know, I've
Unknown Speaker 1:19:44
just it's funny, I've just seen too many cool things like I'm clearly a brain nerd because I love you know, I love the technologies. I love seeing what we can do to help strengthen our brain support our brain. It's not hard and I will tell you that hyperbaric oxygen therapy, it's not one of the, you know, 14 indicated uses for it. You know, you don't have a diabetic foot wound, you know, no carbon monoxide poisoning. I mean, there's really indicated uses for that. But I will tell you, the evidence is now increasing for its use of both acute and chronic traumatic brain injury. Because there's very little downside with the exception of cost. And it can cause issues with the eye, like people have glaucoma or cataracts. So you have to be careful, because you're, it's 100%, partial pressure, oxygen, usually about 1.4 atmospheres are greater, you have to do for 60 to 90 minutes. So if you have people, you know, with the eye issues, that's just a lot of pressure and can cause problems there. But for the most part, you know, we've had hundreds of players that have done it, you're starting to see these things pop up in locker rooms, you know, the sports teams know about it. So when we talk about higher level or, you know, out of the box, therapies that athletes are using, probably like LeBron James, you know, they they find out about these things, and are using them for their their health. And it's amazing, again, for the brain, anti inflammatory. It's great for people done hyperbarics pre and post surgery. So if you do a session before a surgical procedure, it can help. It can help prevent any infections during surgery. Woman post, you can use it for wound healing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So
Ken Brown 1:21:38
putting it all together, if we can develop some sort of hyperbaric chamber that like drops supplements in you, while you're hitting the visual training thing. You do eco microbial Transplant at the same time. So he,
Unknown Speaker 1:21:52
here's what you have to do you do the IV therapy. So you do the IV glutathione before you go into hyperbaric chamber, or the IV vitamin C before you go in the chamber. So we've got you there. Wow. And then when you're in the chamber, you can watch any movie you want. So it's actually quite relaxing. It's fun, it's fun. It's fun.
Ken Brown 1:22:13
I want to try it also. I'm telling
Unknown Speaker 1:22:15
you, I had no idea. And that was just the epilogue those little things in the epilogue because my publishers like we don't want anybody to you know, we want this to be really accessible to people and it sounds like you've read it and it
Ken Brown 1:22:29
is awesome. So there is so many cool things in this and what you did is a fantastic job of describing it and leaving so many loose ends that if you want to go deeper, clearly you can go deeper, but you gave a guide to the to the general person in a truly as it fits the title biohacking. So I think that term bio hack really resonates with people that just want to get to the point and just do it and you did
Unknown Speaker 1:22:55
the bio hack piece, you know why we call it that is if you can change the brain and show through measuring objectively show with neuroimaging, that there is a change. To me, that's a bio hack.
Ken Brown 1:23:08
I got one little thing that I want to talk about a little bio hack related to the Harvard study that I pulled the article and looked at that regarding eating blueberries on a daily basis. Yes, since your brain age. Yes, that's all related to the proanthocyanidins. Well, Eric, I've done multiple podcasts with other PhDs describing how those proanthocyanidins work. And that's kind of our world with that. So we love we live in that world, we actually have a study out of England where it says that you can eat four bowls of berries or two doses of the type of proanthocyanidins that we haven't tried to so I could go on another hour about that. But that was awesome that you put that in there.
Unknown Speaker 1:23:47
So the entre on trying to first of all, I have patients that need this, like I have somebody who if this works as well as I think it could would come on your podcast and
Ken Brown 1:23:58
rave we're gonna do is I'm gonna send Eric to your clinic. And when somebody is in a hyperbaric chamber, he's like a funnel like a beer bomb and has run Asante on it. Yeah, it's
Eric Rieger 1:24:09
a it's poly phenol flog. Wha.
Unknown Speaker 1:24:12
Well, that's what you were saying. Let me just ask you. What is the first the name of the first thing that you have in it? I have never heard.
Ken Brown 1:24:20
So this is beautiful. So we had a PhD named Sylvia Molina on okay kibra Colorado, and this is her deal and how I actually figured this out. I did clinical research on IVs and stuff. Well, the Colorado happens to be the largest, most stable tannin which is a large polyp. It's a large proanthocyanidin input together. And so by doing that, it really does not become absorbed and in her research, this will blow your mind. Okay, when it gets to the colon. If you ever have proper microbiome, it will break down the temperature on the chestnut into smaller phenolic compounds that more people are familiar with, like curcumin? Yes, of course the 10 egcg egcg green tea extract. So everybody thinks it only comes in green tea. The science of this phenolic compounds is super complex. And oh yeah,
Unknown Speaker 1:25:12
this particular compound, you're telling me breaks down into all of the individual compounds?
Ken Brown 1:25:17
Why it's so cool, so cool, like a giant building block. We have a whole podcast on it, where she where she lived in Spain. She came on a podcast and English was her eighth language. She's she knows a few words. It was a fantastic tacular, one of the most lovely people. And she's super into all the stuff that we're talking about, by the way, all these we've had the who's the PhD for Colorado State? Oh, that. Van Deaton. Charlene Van Buren was also doing this. So I had this fantastic that's kind of like when I stumbled on I was looking for something about Naomi Sokka found your thing that I found your book and I was just like, Oh my gosh, I love is when you're this deep into something you have such a passionate Why? Yeah. It's so yeah, so we found. So I developed this for IBS. And then she's telling me Oh, no, it's way bigger than what you think
Unknown Speaker 1:26:10
you actually, I'm gonna have to listen to her podcast episode. And I just I have, you know, certain segment of patients that I work with that are still struggling with gut health issues that are doing the green juicing. And some of the thing I know they're sneaking in their bad foods, too. So I was curious,
Ken Brown 1:26:29
maybe that's all my protocol, but by adding the green m&ms, and
Unknown Speaker 1:26:33
he might be on the green m&m protocol. So I really you know, I'm all about experiments, I kind of feel like everything I do is a big experiment. And now that I know about this, I am I've got a couple people that have to take this and if it if it changes the gut health the way you've described, I mean, the blood centre
Ken Brown 1:26:53
the size will send you samples to help some of your people and like all things. If it helps one person great if it you know if it doesn't, and we're just trying
Unknown Speaker 1:27:03
to help older doesn't hurt, right? poly phenol, it's like how can you go wrong with that? We need more. We need
Ken Brown 1:27:10
that as a as a as a Yeah.
Eric Rieger 1:27:15
You just made our pay that on YouTube. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:27:20
But it's, it's true. No, I speak truth. And I love to see the science behind it. And man, what a pleasure meeting both of you today. What a fun conversation. Thank you so much. First of all, thank you so much for having me on. Thank you for getting the book and reading it so happy you loved it.
Eric Rieger 1:27:36
Honestly, just kind of incredible. Going through the book. And now talking to you what I've, I mean, I feel like we've got like 74 episodes more than we need to book. There's just so many different things that you have. But this book, gut check project family, check this out. biohack your brain. This is Dr. Kristen, will in New York. And she's, I mean, honestly, you're incredible. Thank you so much for joining us today. I do want to things. Yeah, well obviously have a link in our show notes. But where should people connect with you? And where should they buy the book?
Unknown Speaker 1:28:09
Well, thank you so they can connect with me on my website at Dr. Willa meyer.com. Dr. wi, LL EU Am I er. And you can buy the book wherever books are sold Amazon Barnes and Nobles, your local bookstore. I mean, it's everywhere.
Ken Brown 1:28:28
And you are literally the sweetest person I've ever met. Because we're an hour and some end of this and we've been mispronouncing your name the whole time. It's really minor not willing to hear Oh,
Unknown Speaker 1:28:40
you know what it actually has? Its volumi A and French and Dutch. And so suddenly, oh, yeah. Let
Ken Brown 1:28:47
me show that from now on. Like, how did you read Dr. Dr. Wilson years? Dr. William, I'm like it now. We're friends. It's valuable.
Unknown Speaker 1:28:57
It's that you know, it's funny anybody from a foreign country. So it's in the books in German and Russian and Chinese and a couple other languages. So when I speak for with foreign countries, they say sort of the proper pronunciation but in America, people say Wellemeyer. I'm,
Ken Brown 1:29:14
I'm good with whatever your thank you for joining us. We'd love to have you again.
Eric Rieger 1:29:23
Thank you so much. Oh, yes. Really fun. You guys are great. Well, it's awesome. And thanks for taking time out of your day to to hang out with Ken and I anything, it's
Unknown Speaker 1:29:33
my pleasure. And I love to send you an autographed copy of the book. I'll send one for both of you. And then you can
Ken Brown 1:29:40
chat to someone in the French version so I can practice. I read in the book if you learn a new language. It helps neuroplasticity
Eric Rieger 1:29:50
and I learned in this podcast that you live in a fire station.
Unknown Speaker 1:29:55
I live very close to the firehouse which is good being the daughter of a former firefighter that's
Ken Brown 1:30:01
a really good thing, right? So it's probably comforting.
Eric Rieger 1:30:05
Yeah. You just go to sleep. It is so your dad. This is our home.
Unknown Speaker 1:30:13
I hear I hear sirens and I smile. I was like, Oh, that's my dad. Trust me. I take care of a lot of firefighters. That's one of my passion projects. So football players, firefighters, people with degenerative diseases and psychiatric issues.
Eric Rieger 1:30:30
Wow. Well, Dr. Kristin, thank you so much for joining us, everyone. This is episode number 59. Check us out show notes. We've got all the good stuff and we will see y'all on the next trip around.
Ken Brown 1:30:43
Remember, buy the book biohack your brain
Eric Rieger 0:00
Hello gut check project fans and KB MD health family. I hope you're having a great day. It is now time for episode number 58. And of course we got an awesome guest. It's Dr. Sabine Hasan, who is she a world renowned research gastroenterologist, she is based in California, and she is an expert in faecal microbial transplants, FMT trusted it fast. I couldn't do it. Anyhow FMT. So essentially you're taking healthy poop from a healthy person, and using that microbiome that's inside of there to be transplanted into somebody else who may not be doing so well and could have all kinds of disease etc. Regardless, she's at the forefront of finding real solutions that can be accepted by our bodies to make us better make us well even help you lose weight. That's right. Could poop because somebody else's poop Have you lose weight, and earmuffs in case you have any young kids in the car, but she wrote a book and it's called let's talk shit, although the AI is upside down like a exclamation point. So regardless, let's get to her interview. And well first got to pay the bills though of course brought to you by artron to artron to get your daily polyphenols that are Tron teal.com or just go to love my tummy calm get your daily polyphenols. That's right. Developed by my partner, Dr. Kenneth Brown, gastroenterologist, these polyphenols are terrific for you. Whether you having digestive issues, maybe you have symptoms that are similar to those of IBS. Or you're just an athlete and you want to be your best artron to love my tummy.com use code. gut check and save I believe 20% Next, of course, unrefined bakery they've been a longtime supporter, unrefined bakery.com excellent, incredible food, regardless of your specialty diet that's unrefined bakery.com if you are keto, paleo or vegan, they've got it in that is desserts breads, etc. pie crust yeah pie crust, do you think that you are gluten free or celiac disease and you can't have pie crust, unrefined bakery.com use code gut check and save 20% off of your entire first order delivered to all of the lower 48 states and last but not least go to KB Md health.com to get your very own KB MD health CBD and Brock elite which has severe veins or ultra until you can get the signature package from Dr. cans Brown. kb Md health.com. Now it is time for oh I'm sorry, KB Md health.com. Use code GCP to save 20% off of any order. Now it's time for episode number 58. Dr. Sabine Hasan
Ken Brown 3:03
Hey, what's up everybody? Welcome to Episode 58 of the gut check project. Ooh, today's a really, really cool one. We have Dr. Sabine Hasan, who will be our very first gastroenterologist as a guest. So I'm a gastroenterologist, but she's way smarter than I am and does all kinds of really cool stuff on read. What's that? Cool stuff? Yes. Cool stuff. Indeed. It's awesome. So I put together a quick little bio for you. I apologise that I don't have your probably standard bio. So I hope I get some of this stuff, right. This is Oh, and you'll notice there's an empty seat here where my co host, Dr. Eric riegert crna, who's usually here on time. Don't do that. It'll make it blurry. It'll make it blurry. It'll get us out of focus. He almost photo bombed us. Dr. Hayes in this is Eric reser. We've already been talking and we practically had a whole podcast before this podcast. You missed it. Sorry. Oh, that's
Eric Rieger 4:05
okay. Another topic that I'd like to talk about is promptness, and being on time, that's another thing that really well, apparently I wasn't very good at today.
Ken Brown 4:14
So I'm really surprised. You know, what is what's interesting, and I hope it's something that we can comment later is that Eric got a round of antibiotics. And ever since then, it's so weird. He's just always late for everything, and I'm blaming it on the microbiome
Unknown Speaker 4:26
100% I think we should test this microbiome. I'll send you a kit. That's the first thing I do.
Ken Brown 4:34
Alright, so Dr. Sabine Hasan is a Board Certified gastroenterologist and avid researcher. She has a thriving practice in Ventura, California, and she started her own clinical trial company 16 years ago called Ventura clinical trials, and has been principal investigator and sub investigator in over 150 clinical trials. Now you say that number but I'm in like, For, and it was exhausting. So 150 Holy cow. Alright, so during this period, she became an expert in the microbiome with an interest in cdiff. Clostridium difficile. So through this process, she became one of the world's leaders in faecal microbial transplant. And through her research and expert, and through research and experience, she realised the unmet need to dive deeper into the microbiome. And she founded progenitor biome. So she is the founder of her own company, progenitor biome. And most recently, she published a fun, easy to read book for the lay person called let's talk shit. And I got it, and I read it and I laughed a lot. And it's really good. Written in a great lay, lay person point of view. And I loved it. So Dr. Hayes, you want to talk some shit? Talk?
Unknown Speaker 5:57
Let's talk shit, for sure. Oh, at least finally a podcast that's like willing to go there? Like, oh, I don't think we should talk about it. Or we should say another word. And I'm like, Are you kidding me? I've seen half the books that are out there. The Art of not giving a f EU Oh, that's number one bestseller. But let's talk shit. We can't even say the word shit. Since when is the F word more acceptable than the shit? Come on?
Ken Brown 6:28
This is true. Unfortunately, I think I use the words quite frequently, both of them often. So I really do not discriminate.
Unknown Speaker 6:36
I named it that way. Because too often, you know, we sugarcoat microbiome, right? We made it pretty. But I think we're entering in a world of microbiome, we got to tell the public and the consumer what it's all about. And that's why I wanted it. First of all, I thought it was funny. I mean, this is like a tough topic, right? People come to us as gi doctors, bloated, gassy symptoms of you know, bowel changes, etc. And so we hope to, we have to explain to them and how do you explain a topic like the microbiome, without, you know, a little bit of humour to digest it a little bit better? My opinion, that's what I that's why I named it. So to give it full transparency. And then the other thing was to, essentially, you know, make people smile, because there's so many jokes you could say about it.
Ken Brown 7:30
I heard you on another podcast where you're exactly right. As gastroenterologist, we have no problem talking about it. But I have the same issue with patients. They're like it was so embarrassing. I don't want to discuss this. I'm like, we have to discuss this. And then that goes from that to Okay, well, as long as you're comfortable with it. Here's some pictures.
Eric Rieger 7:49
Not all the time, like no pictures, please. Okay, sometimes randomly the nurses they showed up with the bag.
Unknown Speaker 7:58
Field great. I mean, you know, you probably know Neil Stallman, right? Yeah. So Neil, when I was a fellow at University of Florida, and I was presenting my research on visceral hyperalgesia, which was super clean, would come to me and say, You better start getting your hands dirty, because we're going into the ship business. I said, No, please, they call me Gucci girl in the GI lab, because if it's dirty, if the colonoscopy was not clean, I was out of there. I'm like, sorry, we do the prep, come back next week. I'm not cleaning the patient, right. And then the mere mention of having to actually play with tools and putting it in there was just something I never ever thought that would even happen to me. And, um, you know, when a patient is about to die from C diff, and you tried everything from, you know, antibodies after antibiotics to, you know, clinical trials, and that was my, my path, right? I was doing clinical trials, and Neil was doing people transplants. And we met when I was doing a clinical trial on faecal material in a capsule because every time I would do a clinical trial for pharma, if the pharmaceutical product didn't work, I would do faecal transplant, because I would say, Well, you know, the patient trusted me to heal them. And whether they got placebo or the drug didn't work, it's my obligation to make sure they're fine. So I would do people transform them. And then I discovered all these things. And of course, I you know, I blame Neil in a way for stepping into this because I've stepped in fully and every day I play with it, I can tell you the first time I I was, you know, looking at collecting stools, I think I almost passed out. But then you develop you know, that survivor or that, you know, warrior mentality that you're like, I can do this, I can do this. I went into gi I'm tough and blameless goes I can do this. And that's what happened.
Ken Brown 9:59
So I'm really curious about your history. Can you just give us a little background about like your family and where you came from who you're married because I find it all really interesting. Your, your past is fantastic to where you are right now
Unknown Speaker 10:13
increasing the volume. So I'm I was born in Morocco. My parents, you know, my background is pretty much a mud like Spanish background German, you name it. It's all mixed in Italian, I was happy to see on 23andme I have some Italian blood and Greek. So I'm a mutt. And essentially, my parents immigrated to Montreal, I was raised in Montreal, went to medical school in Nova Scotia. My siblings all went to McGill and wanted the McGill route. And I went down housing because I didn't want to, you know, in my family, you had to live at home if you're going to college in Montreal, but if you go to college elsewhere, then that's the only exception to moving out of the house. So I said, Okay, I'm going to Dalhousie and Dalhousie was, was fun because it was you got into the rotations of, of medicine right off. You know, from day one, you were seeing patients. So that was kind of fun for me. And then I was gonna go back to Montreal, and I had a cold and I was interviewing for positions for internal medicine and gi for internal medicine, I don't even think I was going to be a GI at the time. And I got an interview a University of Miami Jackson Memorial Hospital, and they paid for my plane tickets, because they love Canadians back then. And they paid for my hotel. So I said, Oh, free trip to Miami. And then I show up in Miami, and I'm interviewing, I'm doing the interview. And they're telling, they're showing me like a room of 10 CAT scans, and you know, just like beautiful hot. I mean, you've been I don't know, if you've been to Miami Jackson Memorial, it's it's a city in itself. And back then, I mean, we had one CAT scan and the whole country of Canada, I mean, show up in my app, and you've got like 10 CAT scans in the room, and it's like, and then they sell you on Miami, and they're like, Oh, you could live in, you know, on the beach. And then you could go to the hospital, like, I'm there. I'm coming. So I showed up. And that was during the, the world of HIV. You know, that's when HIV was really, you know, really starting and all right, I remember here I am this, you know, kid that my parents kept like in a, you know, protected and clean environment. And then I'm the move, I'm moving to Miami, and I'm dealing with, you know, HIV, like 12 HIV patients a night and patients are like throwing blood all over the walls. And you remember the, I don't know, you're probably much younger than I am. But, you know, this was this was war, right? And so, me and Neil and my colleagues from Miami, we we trained under those circumstances of patients coming and crashing from HIV, kind of what we're seeing with COVID. Right?
Ken Brown 13:04
It does have some and yes, I did have that we had our aids Ward where you would have to rotate, and then you have to make sure because their CD forecasts are so low that you you know, so you didn't want to give them any microbes that could hurt them. We just didn't know back that
Unknown Speaker 13:20
you didn't know. And we were so scared, right? We were if we got pricked by a needle, we, you know, you'd hear the residents like chopping their fingers. You know, going into a room of a patient that was altered mental status and being dressed like an astronaut going into space. And I met my husband, by the way, in Jackson Memorial first day of internship. And we became best friends because we were on call together. And it wasn't like scrubs or er, although kind of, but it was kind of fun. We were together we like work hard and do call and then we'd go party after on South Beach. So we met under this circumstances, and I think some of my best friends and you know, I've been married to my husband almost 30 years. So I think that really that environment really, you know, bonded us forever The memories, my colleagues because it was really survival. And he used to joke because he used to say, you look like an astronaut going into space. Going to see these spaces are like I'm not coming because we had TB resistant TB and HIV. We had all sorts of infections in that hospital. So it was really Warzone. And at the same time, you're treating these patients that are swallowing bags of cocaine, and in condoms, right and you have to like wash the bag evacuated. So it was really it was intense. I mean, we were I was taking care of your HIV patients criminals. I mean, it was just it was a interesting times but it forms you and makes you you know, a top doctor that you can do survive, you know, helping people no matter who they are. Right. So I think that that was it was great for me. It was a great education. It was great. And then in Miami and residency, some guys said, because we were, my husband wanted to go into cardiology, and I said, Well, maybe I'll go into cardiology. And then some guy said to me, you know, we don't take an eye and I said, how's gi his gi a good feeling looks kind of fun. I mean, it's like surgery but without doing surgeries, and he said, we don't take women in gi so don't bother well. That's all it took.
Ken Brown 15:40
In there on challenge taking you ripped off your space suit room is roomful of AIDS people vomiting blood me like I'm gonna do gi
Eric Rieger 15:52
the lion You sound like you're talking shit. Let's talk shit.
Unknown Speaker 15:56
So basically, yeah, and back then gi and it was actually a miracle because back then gi was like the the flexible StG where you're like, touching your like, baby, you train with that. You were still you were probably kaleidoscope. I
Ken Brown 16:12
am actually a few years older than you. And so I went through everything you're saying I'm 100% dead. But I will say this, you've got way more guests than I did. I interviewed at Miami. And I went I looked at the volume and what was wrong because Miami had that they had more than a bigger HIV population, tonnes of age, lots of trauma, all that stuff. And I'm like, I like the warp. So I was training in Nebraska and I just got sick of the cold. And so I just moved south, I just drew a line from California, Arizona, across and it basically Texas is like Midwest but south. So I just but Miami I was I remember thinking, Oh my gosh, if I do residency here, you're just you're just not gonna sleep.
Unknown Speaker 16:53
And actually, I was sleeping because I came out. So I was a Canadian train. So we trained with like physical exams, right? you examine the patient, you actually say, oh, gallbladder problem just by doing, you know, Toby's face and percussion, etc. So, you know, it was much faster for me to take care of patients. So me and my husband used to have like, gone, you know, he would, he would come in the column. He's like, you're sleeping, I didn't sleep. And I'm like, Oh, you know, and then we would have this competition of who would discharge the patient and treat the patient the fastest. So there'd be a board. And it'd be like Hasan and Steinberg and HIV patients and I'd be like, I'm giving them this, this, this, that and that. Okay, they're fine out of the hospital one day, and then it'd be like zero. He's in 20, Steinberg and then
Ken Brown 17:42
eventually he just made everybody DNR and just flowing out.
Unknown Speaker 17:48
He was it was a you know, it was it. We do things for challenges, right. I mean, we do things. Why do you go into medicine? Otherwise, if it's not the treat, that's what bothered me with this whole COVID is like, was the idea of doing nothing. I the patient's having shortness of breath, oxygen, the SATs and you do nothing? I couldn't understand that mentality because you have to try.
Ken Brown 18:12
So I have a feeling that this we're just going to go all over the map here. So I'm going to get right off because there's something I was super impressed that you did, you gave a lecture on COVID and ivermectin way back. So now ivermectin, now, all these things were being said, are now coming to light and going, what the heck, why don't we? Yeah. How did you realise ivermectin fairly early.
Unknown Speaker 18:36
So it was I started the protocol with the hydroxychloroquine, which went completely political. And my idea was, well, makes sense, right? That's kind of like what we do with H. pylori, multiple drug combo. So I thought, well, hydroxychloroquine azithromycin would be killing the virus and then vitamin C, D and zinc would boost the microbiome, right? So in other words, you kill but you boost right? So you we we bring the balance. And so Dr. Berg when hydroxy glow. At the same time, Dr. Brody said you know what, I think ivermectin is a better solution, because he was investigating himself. And you know, Dr. Brody is the man we all follow for his leadership on faecal transplant, but also he was the one the brain behind H. pylori and triple therapy. So he was the one that said combination therapy, and he's big on combination therapy. I mean, he's used combination therapy for two patients in Parkinson's, he published on that. So, basically, for me, it was following his direction. And he said to me, you know, what we need to do ivermectin, doxycycline zinc. And I said, Yeah, but you got to add the vitamin C and vitamin D. Nothing should be done without vitamin C, and D because you're killing the virus. And in fact, the microbiome is going to tell the story, and it's going to be amazing, because I showed the data to Dr. Ayman quickly, and you know, Dr. COVID,
Ken Brown 20:02
right. The Godfather of probiotics,
Unknown Speaker 20:05
yes. And and by the way, he was like fantastic data. Fantastic. And he's on my paper that's coming out. So yeah. So I got I got Dr. bozkurt from Turkey. I got Dr. Brody, of course in the paper and even quickly, so and it's basically blank, blank, blank susceptible marker for COVID-19. And we know we're going to show in the microbiome why ivermectin is working. Oh, that's cool.
Ken Brown 20:39
So both Eric and I are big fans of the podcast. Brett Weinstein the Dark Horse podcast. Yes. And he had the critical care doctor from New York, pa Corey. Yeah, up here. And I was just floored because, you know, like all of us. We, we there's only so many hours in the day and we do quite a bit of research and I'm and ivermectin caught me off guard. I went, I was like I was, I was behind the curve on that one. I looked back and went. How did I miss that? How did I miss ivermectin? That's why I was so impressed that you were on it right away.
Unknown Speaker 21:09
Yeah. And by the way, when you see what is doing to the microbiome, it's going to be as clear as life because what happened is because I have a CR O, and I'm able to put these protocols through pipelines through the FDA. And by the way, I did it because I had enough of pharma. You know, I had enough of putting these products and then you saw with the Alzheimer study, this Alzheimer drug goes into market, and the benefits are like, you know, what's going on there. So I said, we need to have doctors lead the path for pharma. In other words, doctors come up with these solutions, and bring them to the FDA. And so I kind of started this with COVID was more of a lead to show it Look, I'm taking combination therapy, and I'm putting them through a pipeline, I wrote the protocol and I submitted to the FDA and the FDA approved it right off the bat. Then the FDA then had second thought, because they said, Well, you need to have a placebo, and I said a placebo and COVID in the middle of a pandemic. I'm like, that's like. And I said, we're in the middle of a pandemic. Rome is burning. Are you asking me to use a bucket that doesn't have water? On the fire?
Ken Brown 22:30
Okay, the house is on fire. I'm going to give you a bucket. Yeah. And you're gonna get a bucket. Now go put it out. Yeah. And then walk one of those bucket was gonna have water and one's gonna have nothing makes gasoline. More than anything, because we're talking about COVID here. I mean, it's like giving a placebo is like giving gasoline.
Eric Rieger 22:48
Okay, so some burning Sinan fire truck. And over here sim school bus?
Unknown Speaker 22:52
Yeah. So that's basically what happened. And then I started, when I submitted these protocols, I said, Okay, find the, the placebo is going to be a vitamin. So we did vitamin versus the other thing. But what we discovered is when we started looking at the microbiome and looking at we found COVID, in the stools, whole genome sequencing presented at an american college of gastro and then it got published, took six months to get published on gut pathogen, because they couldn't believe it. Right? They were, what is this real, we had to like submit, it was sent to the who I mean, it was just too ridiculous, you know, long term time to get that paper published. And so when we started looking at the microbiome, we discovered something in the microbiome. And we discovered something in the microbiome of those that were super sick, compared to those that were not so sick, compared to those who never got COVID to begin with. But yet we're exposed to patients with COVID. So we said, Wow, if this is a susceptible marker, so it was so basically became like a susceptibility marker, right. And so we determined that if we don't know the baseline of the microbiome in a patient, and we're giving them placebo, and that person has those microbes are super high. In other words, where's your immunity in your gut, right? And your immunity at baseline is super high, and I'm giving you a sugar pill? Well, of course, it doesn't matter because you already have like super strong microbiome to survive. COVID So is it fair to compare a placebo to a person, you know, that doesn't have a good microbiome? You know, you're comparing like an athlete running a marathon to a person on a wheelchair. Unless you know, the microbiome, you're really doing placebo controlled trials useless and COVID in mind,
Ken Brown 24:47
you're bringing up something that is, I mean, could be a complete game changer in how pharma would do and type of research in the future. Yes, because what we're saying what you're saying is, if You do not have. And we've discussed this kind of stuff on the on other podcasts. If you do not have a diverse microbiome, are you able to take full advantage of these medications that we believe are helping because the FDA determined that there's a safety profile on it, therefore, it goes to the second trial. And then just like you said, in phase three and four trials, you're 6% better than placebo. So because of that, it's now a $14 billion drug that got bought by a bigger company.
Unknown Speaker 25:26
Yes, absolutely. And we are entering into a world of research now, that is no longer research. In my opinion, medicine is no longer an art, it's a business. And that's scary to me, because that's not why I went into medicine. I'm sure that's not why you went into medicine. We're all individuals, we should all have an individual treatment. We have the technology now, especially with what we do with Regina biome, to understand with precision, these microbes of the individual, and the future is beautiful, because it's going to be a readjustment of microbes to attain that precision medicine. We need to get there, we can't be stopped, because roadblocks is what stops innovations and stops answers. And we got to keep asking questions and say, is this is this correct? Is this safe? Why are we doing this? Why are we not? The moment we stop asking questions, we stop science, we stop research, we stop finding answers. And then in my opinion, humanity is lost. I mean, you're talking about diversity. Look at the diversity of microbes. Over the last 100 years, we've gone from diverse microbiome to now an diverse look at 1980 the rate of autism was one in 2000. Now it's one in 20. In New Jersey, something is happening in the microbiome that we have to pay attention to and is it the herbs we're giving? Is it these vitamins that are over the counter and supposedly have the vitamins right? Or is it the probiotics? Is it the right probiotics, the wrong probiotics? So I think all that we need to fine tune a little bit more.
Ken Brown 27:06
fine tune is an understatement that
Unknown Speaker 27:09
sure, like people come to you and say, Doc, I want I'm on this probiotic. And you're looking at this bottle and you're shaking your head, right. Probably. Dr. Hasan,
Ken Brown 27:21
have you met Kiran Krishnan from microbiome labs? Yes, yeah. Very, very, very smart microbiologist. We had him on the podcast and we discussed this exact thing about the fact do you know if it's alive, do you know that you can get a a railcar, you know, like one of those big giant crates for like $2,000. From who knows where and then anyways, we went into the whole aspect of probiotics and how easy it is to make your own probiotic. Yes, put your label on it, but you have no idea if it's gonna do that, you know, you have no idea if there's data it's gonna survive. So absolutely on the same page. bacteria in the gut that's live is dangerous, in my opinion. Yeah. And that's in your book, your offices. It's funny, because in your book, you you had a brief segment about how people in the desert when they would get I don't know, dysentery, they would eat Kagame. And Kiran brought up that exact same thing. oil based, soil based people figured out early on that somebody got sick, they would eat the camel dung, and they would get better. Yes. And you brought it up there, which was fascinating.
Unknown Speaker 28:27
To the soldiers were stuck. I forget where but they they had Calera and that's how, you know, the Bedouins told them. Just eat the apples from the camel, which is really the poop from the camel, and they cure the colour all of a sudden.
Ken Brown 28:45
Isn't that crazy?
Unknown Speaker 28:46
I know. We're not going to go into that because I don't think people want to eat that. But I think we can understand the microbes that are play. Right. So that was my thing is we're heading up.
Ken Brown 28:58
I just saw Eric trying to order a camel off Amazon. No,
Eric Rieger 29:02
no, no, I've got a coupon for camel apples. Oh, that's what it is.
Unknown Speaker 29:05
I already trademarked sisters of Camelot. I was in Jordan with my sisters. And we were on camels. And of course, you know, they're pooping all over. And it came to me. I said, I need to analyse the stools. So of course, I took my eye because I did bring some kids with me. And I'm taking it. I took it home and looked at it. So I said, Okay, we're starting sisters of Camelot. But we're not going to start that because I'm my plan not to make people eat pizza because
Ken Brown 29:36
of you. You're the reason why when I'm coming back from a from a country and in customs, they're like, Did you bring any animals? Do you have any food? Do you have any camel dung on you? And I'm like, why would I have Canada? No.
Unknown Speaker 29:50
It was me. It was me. Actually one time my husband brought in an apple to an island and actually we got fine. I think they got the memo. They were like Dr. Hasan's come in, there's probably some microbes in there, stay away. $200 fine.
Ken Brown 30:07
Alright, so we got so many things I would love to talk about. But I do want to really hone in on progen ibiam for several different reasons. Number one, I am also trying to run a different company and you know, have all this stuff, you've got a lot of stuff going on, we got a lot of similarities and how your enthusiasm and your need to keep your curiosity forces you to start other companies to sort of meet the need that you're trying to find. So can you please tell everybody what progetto biome is?
Unknown Speaker 30:36
So progenitor biome is a genetic sequencing lab, what does that mean? It basically looks at the microbes, the genetics of the microbes, so the fingerprint of your microbiome, kind of like your DNA, but the DNA of all your microbes that co exist and cohabitate in your gut. It's so when I explain this, we have a choice. When we look at the microbiome to look superficially, it's kind of like scuba diving and being at the ocean, in the top of the ocean and seeing guppies or going super deep into the ocean and seeing the life and so we go super deep with every patients. So we can look superficially and do a lot of patients with that cartridge. So when we do genetic sequencing, you have to take that stool sample, which is the size of a fingernail, and then we have to tag it and do library preps are called and then we put them on these cartridges, and then essentially the cartridge we have a we have a choice, we can use the cartridge and do multiple development and see the surface. Or we can go deep, deep and use that same cartridge into the depth. So we go into the depth of the microbiome, to look at the microbes a species because that's what we want. We want species of microbes because we as doctors understand species, you know, to the rest of the for the forever the world of microbiome has been from acuities bacteroides. Right? But that's very superficial. So if you remember microbiology you go phylum class, order family, genus, species. I don't want to be at the phylum phylum is like looking at Planet Earth, right? I don't want to be at the class. That's like looking at London. I want to be almost at the family to say Mr. And Mrs. Jones, but I really want to see the species to see the kid of Mr. And Mrs. Jones, who has autism, the species tells the story, right? Because when you see mycoplasma for the first time, which is a cellular doesn't have a cell wall, and you see 40,000 sequences or 40,000 mycoplasma shapes into the microbiome. You say this kid has mycoplasma, and that's the cause of his problem. Maybe, right? Because then the next step would be, well, what is mycoplasma succeeding, and is mycoplasma. So creating something and therefore active in that patient, or it's just a dead organism? But even if it's a dead organism, why does that kid have so much relative abundance of that? So really, it's looking at the species and understanding the species yesterday, I was excited because I had a Crohn's patients. So remember, for Crohn's, I'm always looking for mycobacterium tuberculosis, right? Because that was Dr. Brody's idea. That map is the cause of Crohn's. Right? But when, but other scientists have come in and says said, well, you're sending your your sindhya and turistica is the cause of Crohn's. And then others have said, malice sees your firfer. And so you look at all that and you go Well, which one is it is a mouse, he's your first and your semi analytic as a map. So it's important to look at the species. And when you look at the species, you start going, Wow, this patient has a lot of eco lie a lot of Shigella, a lot of demopolis. There's definitely a dysbiosis there, right, because we know that these microbes have been the culprit of problems E. coli, chronic urinary tract infections, you know, Shigella, you know, all these bugs. So when you look at the species, and you see the species, and you can kind of make a correlation, it helps in the diagnosis and helps guide you with the patient. And so, to me, that's what it was basically. So that's why I started 42 clinical trials, we're actually up to 59. Now on every diseases, because it was that look, every time a patient comes in with Crohn's, we would say, Crohn's database going there, but what we discovered from the beginning with progetto biome when we looked at everyone, and that was something that made me think, you know, what's out there like you biome is not legit, because they're comparing individuals to others, but we're all different. How can we be compared? So what we so the first thing we discovered Regina biome is we're all different, which, you know, I know, you know, by common sense, right? We all have different fingerprints. How can we have the same microbiome? and Why would my microbiome that was in Jordan, B compared to someone that lives in Greece, right? Completely different microbiome. But why am I healthy with this microbiome? And this person is not healthy with down microbiome, right? That's the million dollar question. So we started noticing, well, if we are all different, how do we compare? How do we understand the microbiome, so the only thing that you can compare is really within the family. And then the other thing that you can compare is within the individual. So whenever you have a product that you want to give it, you have a patient with Crohn's, and you attain a cure. And that was my thing that I would speak about at conferences, attain a cure, understand the microbiome, right? Because if you attain a cure on the same patient, and you see the microbiome before and after the cure, you know that something changed in the microbiome, and what was it that changed that obtain the cure. And so that's basically my bath is, is looking at families. And then from there, once you have like a group of microbes that you've identified and said, Okay, well, that makes sense. This is the bugs, these are the bugs that are related with Alzheimer's, because I've improved the patient's memory. And now these bugs have disappeared. Now, let me look at other groups and see if those bugs are in those patients with Alzheimer's, and let's come up with an essay. That's a formula. So ideally, what I want is the dictionary of all the bugs with diseases.
Ken Brown 36:43
Let me back that up just a little bit. First of all, it's super fascinating. And there's a lot going on here. But as the as gastroenterologist, and I know that my colleagues get this, I get second opinions. And so they'll come in, and they'll just hand me this pile. And in evitable, II, there's some sort of stool analysis. And then somebody will circle things and then say, you need to take this supplement for this, this supplement for this this supplement. And I've always just flipped it over and said, I'm sorry, just because we can analyse it doesn't necessarily mean that we need to make recommendations on this or that we can manipulate it. You're saying, just to clarify is that progen A biome your company is doing a much deeper dive and making the association with diseases, yes, with the person that comes in so that you can at least develop a trend and start to predict how or what I need to do for it.
Unknown Speaker 37:43
And the other thing we did is basically we created an assay that we felt were the 25 actually 15 most important microbes for disease. And we validated that. So what does that mean? We took microbes that were cultured, we bought them, and we put them through the pipeline. And lo and behold, see this was seeded because we had the microbe. So that's validation process, right? The second thing we did is we verified the validation process. In other words, let me repeat that to sample Am I getting the same value? And then let's reproduce it right. So let's reproduce it at month one that's reproduce it by someone else, another technician takes on the same standard operating procedure of how we develop this asset. And basically, we produces the asset. So I was very vague at the beginning. And I hired a genetic sequencer, PhD physician, who is actually behind the bracket gene. And his genius, who developed the essay for me with me. And I said to him from the beginning, I said, Listen, I want to be able to give you a stool sample, and I want you to be able to reproduce the same thing. In other words, I give you my stool sample today, tomorrow, next year, it should be the same fingerprint, the same exact colours. Because if you I'm giving you a stool sample today, and in a month, I'm giving you another sample, but it's no longer the same colours, and the same fingerprint while you're comparing apples and oranges. And that was the whole problem with all these sequencing lab because I remember and again, you'll see them and I would call them because like you I was getting patients that would bring me Sue samples, and I would say what does that mean? I mean, like bacteroides in your gut, what does that mean? And I would call I would call Neon is like nothing, it's all bogus. And I know there's a whole holistic path out there that has looked into this, but you know, they have their vision but unfortunately, you know, we need to bring the holistic and we the idea that holistic healers have achieved and bring in into gi to understand it with the microbiome In my opinion, right. Bring everything that's out there and say, Okay, well, we all see this from this guy and this from this guy. Let's put it all together to say, yes, this is accurate information. This is valid, verified and reproducible data, because everything in science, you have to reproduce it right? If I do faecal transplant on a patient that's has alopecia areata, and my patient grows hair like Dr. Colleen Kelly. Then I've just reproduced Dr. Colleen Kelly's data. And I can say, Well, I did this ABCD like Dr. Kelly, and I got ABCD the same thing and my patient blue hair, right. So reproduction of validation, verification, and reproduction of data is very important in research. But, you know, the problem is just too many we live in a world where people want to just fast, fast development of products fast sell, you know, like sell a probiotic, sell this sell that. And we've stopped the research because it takes time to do research, but it doesn't have to take time to do research.
Ken Brown 41:06
Where you're gonna say something? Yeah,
Eric Rieger 41:07
I had a quick question is, so you've talked about the microbiome. And obviously, you've been able to look at different diseases and then figure out where they match up. And whether the same somebody it's kind of interesting to me, though, is that locally, that makeup of that microbiome, of course, is at the local level in the colon. But they've all looked at the second level and tried to map out that it also matches not just in the makeup of the microbiome, but what those post biotic metabolites would look like. So that the systemic responses are also the same to mimic what what the makeup is
Unknown Speaker 41:44
absolutely an excellent point. There's so the microbiome is different at every location in the coalmine, that what we're doing is really a beginning of seeing what it's looking like at a deep level. The next step that we're going to do, and we're going to be working with a company that developed a capsule that is guided that takes a sample of Seoul, from every different locations, where we can show with precision that the stomach microbiome looks like this, the small bowel microbiome looks like this, the seachem looks like this, the transverse colon. So that's going to be coming because that with that technology, hopefully we can deliver precision microbes to those areas to achieve cures in the future. And, you know, capsule endoscopy, I was the first one Well, one of the first doctors to start using it. And that was the first time that we saw that I saw myself a parasite floating in the small bowel. That was a revelation, right? When you look at the, the sequencing of the microbiome, and you see all these microbes, and I said that I found c diff in my gut, um, you start going, Wow, this there's a mystery there that needs to be figured out. Yeah. Because the microbiome is everything. You're you're born with a lot of good microbes, you die with very little good microbes, right? You live, and then the microbes consume your body and put you back into the earth. So from the earth to the earth. I mean, we're proving that with the microbiome. So even on a and I think for me, the biggest lesson about the microbiome is really that diversity is key to life, key to health. And I was just speaking on the microbiome at a farm polyface Farm that's really big on regenerative farming. And so they believe in diversity of farming, they believe in, you know, coconut, you can't just put like avocado trees, you got to put the avocados with the blueberry trees with the tomatoes with everything. And it's the diversity that creates the beauty of the soil and the amazing, you know, matrix of microbes underneath the ground that feeds us really.
Eric Rieger 43:55
So yeah, they they try to discourage monocropping now, because it will destroy the soil. They wanted, they want to switch it up. Yeah, right.
Unknown Speaker 44:04
Well, you see, Amazon jungle, they tried to do that they tried to utilise things from the Amazon jungle.
Ken Brown 44:11
So one more time in your book, you're you're not discussing the examples that you have in the book. But I was just thinking you had that great section on we should be doing green burials because what we're not doing is giving our microbiomes back we have micro biomes are trillions of microbiome we should give them back to the soil so that then other you know, it'll fertilise plants. We shouldn't be embalming ourselves. We shouldn't. We should be green burying and let that happen.
Unknown Speaker 44:42
We should, we should. So that's what we should be doing. I have someone at the door but I'm gonna ignore them. You can go get him. You can.
Eric Rieger 44:49
I am on bring him on.
Ken Brown 44:51
Let's listen, we have some reach. Maybe Dr. Brody saw this and said I'm gonna fly over there and see Right or Yeah, that would be great. Do you have one quick question about progetto biome and then I
Unknown Speaker 45:12
talked to Dr. Brody like every day two to three times a day times on love the man will have to
Ken Brown 45:19
genius I've never personally met him obviously read tonnes of his tonnes of his work even quickly I've met a tonne of times and you know he's just so nice and so approachable and everything. Quick question for you not for Dr. Hasan but to Sabine is it Sunday now you're sitting clean, it's fine. So being the how I built this aspect. So as a as somebody that built presented by him, how did you think about organising like that stuff? That's that was really intimidating to me. How do you how do you build a business?
Unknown Speaker 45:51
You know, I built it basically, I just my attitude with everything in life is I just jump in, and I just expect, you know, to find something. So I basically jumped into it. I saw, you know, it was it was during the Woolsey fire, the whole backyard burned. And I was in communications with Dr. Feingold, who was the father of bacteria in anaerobic bacteria in the gut, he actually wrote the book anaerobic infections. And I was in communications with him because earlier on, I had done a faecal transplant on a patient who had Alzheimer's and he remembered his daughter's Date of Birth six months later. So to me, that was one of those, you know, and Dr. Brody likes to call it Martians. It's one of those Martians that comes in your front door and you say, wow, there's life on Mars. And so I called Dr. Feingold. And so what am I seeing? When I change the mind? Which microbe Am I seeing when I changed the microbiome in a patient with Alzheimer, and he remembers his daughter's date of birth. And Dr. Feingold said, You're seeing this bacteria that I cultured for so many years, nobody wanted to take on the study and to support it. So I'm giving you the protocol. Get yourself a next generation sequencer machine gets yourself alive, a scientist, and he showed me the path, right? He was 97 years old. And he showed me the path he gave me the paper. And then he put I put it in my Sage because I said, Well, I'm not going to start a genetic lab that's like, you know, at least a couple million. And so what happened is he passed away during the Woolsey fire, my whole backyard burns. And the family calls me and they go, Dr. Hayes, and we want to give you like all the books of our dad, and he signed all his books. So I had like, I have about 1000 books in my I picked up I took a pickup truck, and I picked up the books. My husband thought I was crazy. It's like, our house is burning. And I said, Don't worry about the house. I don't care. This is more important that this is like a seat. This is his work. I wanted to take it on. And I felt like and I felt like it was like tag you're it right. And about a month later, I started communicating with Dr. Brody because Neil had introduced us at ACG and said, oh, by the way, Sabine also cured Crohn's disease with faecal transplant. And he said, what he took my card, and then called me in December, and I said, By the way, I got the paperwork from, I got everything. And I found a couple of patents with you and Dr. feigl. You guys were communicating together those wonderful man, wonderful scientists, brilliant mind. And I said, Well, we got to continue this. And then he said, by the way, I'm working with Dr. Adams, who's publishing a data on autistic children post faecal transplant. So I said, he said, Be ready. You're gonna have the flood. This is Dr. Brody. I'm autism, I don't even know anything about autism. No way. And then next thing, you know, I start my lab. And I told my husband, I said, we're not rebuilding the backyard. I don't care about the house. I'm building a genetic sequencing lab. So he goes Sure, honey, and my if you know, my husband, my husband's a great guys, cardiologist. You know, hi, doctor. Amazing. And he's like, yeah, sure money, do whatever you want. You want to analyse shit, go for it.
Unknown Speaker 49:15
I said, Okay, I'm buying a machine. So, and it was kind of at that point in my life where, you know, my, you know, you your kids are growing up and you've done the raising and they're blooming on their own and you're, you know, at that point where you say, Okay, well, what is my life mean? I'm no longer a mom. Okay, great. I'm a GI doctor, I do research for pharma. But now farmers getting into the shed business, and we don't even understand it. So I saw this light and I just said, I think this is my path. And then lo and behold, everything was just opened up. I mean, my first case of faecal transplant was a patient with metastatic melanoma. That I submitted the protocol to the FDA, the FDA thought I was crazy for wanting to put stools in a woman's body Hold on who was dying, but her haemoglobin was seven. She wasn't eating anything. She was dying. I had to fight with them to let me do it. And I saw her starting to crave chicken nuggets after the faecal transplant, the same cravings that her grandson had. So that was an open an eye opener for me. She ended up living a lot more months than she was supposed to, to to begin where she should have died within the month. But I think the faecal transplant really helped her and I think we're seeing that with, you know, MD Anderson's work with faecal transplants, and chemo, etc. So I think that was the path. I didn't really think of money because people always ask me, Well, how do you support it? How do you venture and I said, Well, let me create a nonprofit. So I created a nonprofit. And then next thing, you know, I wrote the book was shali. And, and everything, like even Shelley came to me in my office, it was just like divine intervention.
Ken Brown 50:56
Shelley? Who is Shelly, I don't know her.
Unknown Speaker 50:58
So Shelly is an author, she writes, you know, she writes books. And she, her husband, was a friend of mine. And we started talking, he's a pilot. And he said, you know, and I said, I need to write this book. And he goes, one is why don't you have Shelly, I'll pay you. And she puts it in the book. And she wrote, I helped Dr. Hayes and get her shit together. Because this is what happened. I gave her all my stack of papers. I said, this is chapter one. Let's start chapter one. And then she started. So as she was building, and we were building dog book. And then Dr. Brody, of course, every time we had a chapter, we're like, what do you think is that said, it's like, I like the quotes I like, you know, because he's very much into, you know, quotes and old quotes from, you know, people in the past. So we started, you know, writing. And then at the same time, I started building these protocols. And I had a team of writers that I basically, I had my, my, my main writer that I said, you know, let's start writing these protocols. And little by little, it was built, and I and Andrea showed me from day one, a patient with Crohn's disease. And he showed me the microbiome, and I changed the microbiome, I played with it with certain products like you that I believed could change the gut. And I was able to reach a cure in this kid, and I was able to see the cure in the microbiome. So before and after. And so when I saw that, I said, I have something. And then I saw see this in 17, the first 17 patients, I saw c diff, and all of them. So I said, you know, maybe we're wrong about C. diff May, and I and I actually challenged the industry, the infectious disease doctors, because I said, maybe we all have C diff, and maybe it's what we give our gut that kills off all the microbes, the diversity, that causes c diff to start succeeding, it's toxin, right? And so, you know, infectious diseases are very pragmatic. They're like, well, if you didn't call to it, then it's not there. And I can't say, Well, how do you culture a dead bacteria? How do you take a tree that's dead and expect to plant it? It doesn't work. I mean, you almost have to culture it anaerobically, right. And so I said, well, but the next generation sequencing shows the whole genetic sequence of the microbe, right? And then when we did RNA pipeline, which is the you know, so we have a bunch of pipelines when we look at microbes, right? So we actually can do a DNA pipeline that looks at our bacteria, or we can do an RNA pipeline, which looks at the bacteria reproducing. So if you see a microbe is reproducing, and you see it high in the messenger RNA pipeline, then you know that this microbe is active.
Ken Brown 53:48
That that's that's a game changer. That's awesome. Yes. Nobody showed it. Nobody. Nobody's ever said that before. Because I remember mark, you know who Mark Pimentel is and cedars? Yes, I know, Mark. So I remember Mark was describing Well, when we're doing these stool studies, where basically it's like going into a neighbourhood and looking at the trash, and then making these assumptions about what's going on inside. That that's just trash is what you're looking at. Oh, the mRNA that's huge. That's big fish.
Unknown Speaker 54:18
Yes. And then the metabolomes is the next step, right? Are those microbes to creating something like the sofa Vibrio in the gut, right, then we know that sofab embryo was linked with autism from Dr. Feingold. So he thought that the sofa Vibrio or Clostridium perfringens could play a role with autism. Well, when you see the sofa Vibrio in a family in one kid that has autism, and the rest of the family doesn't have autism, and don't have it, but the kid has 40% relative abundance of the sofa of embryo you don't even need to do metabolomic studies on that because you know, that there's that The problem most likely, and then that good faecal transplant would be a solution. Oh, that's, that's so cool.
Ken Brown 55:06
I talk to my patients that, especially people with certain food cravings are battling their weight and stuff. And I'm like, well, it could be that you're not really it's not really you and controlled your microbiome, would you discuss briefly your two daughters? In your experience?
Unknown Speaker 55:20
Yeah. So. So I took antibiotics, my young, my old, my oldest also, and, you know, I have a hard time I used to eat like, in Miami, I used to eat the whole tuna subway, and you know, would not gain a pound naito cucumber, and I get a pile. And my little one eats 5000 10,000 calories. Sometimes she'll eat like a one o'clock in the morning, the whole pizza, and then an apple pie doesn't gain weight. She's a toothpick, right. And so we looked at the family microbiome, and actually, there was a group of microbes that is potentially the obesity marker. There's also a group of markers that are potentially the cholesterol. And so this is a new world, right that we're entering. So even with Alzheimer's, we're seeing similarities in the microbiome. So we need to understand, but more important, I think, then understanding the microbes isn't is understanding the environment of the microbes. Because you saw studies when they do so we know that when we do faecal transplants, we are achieving improvement in patients, right. But you saw the studies where they remove the faecal material and they just had the liquid then they implanted it and they still got improvement, right? So something in the substance, something in the environment, the substances, I think, make a big, big difference. It's all gonna make sense to you. When you read the paper with ivermectin.
Ken Brown 56:44
I'm so excited. I just I'm literally like thrilled.
Unknown Speaker 56:49
Vitamin C and vitamin D, because I'm going to be writing Linus Pauling was right.
Ken Brown 56:54
That's coming. I agree. With everything you said. I have a couple quick comments. Number one, your doorbell rang. And he did tell you that emotion would show up on your front doorstep that could have been, and Oh, well. And then I got a I have a I have a quick story for you. Yes, that we were interviewing a fellow. He was from Yale. And this is gonna be about eight to 10 years ago. So before faecal microbial transplant FMT was being discussed. We're out to dinner with them. I've took them to a nice steak restaurant here in here in my city. And I was asking him about his research. And he goes, Well, what we're showing is and he's talking, and the waitress was there, and she was like, This is interesting. And she was listening. And she was a little bit obese. And he goes, Well, we're taking stool from skinny mice and giving it to fat mice. And those fat mice are losing weight. And then vice versa. Right, like, no, that's so cool. Because like the first time I'd ever heard of it, he was doing the original research on this. And then the funniest thing happened. She was once again I said she was a little overweight. She looks over at this busboy who's all about six for 120 pounds. She was Bill, you are the sexiest person in this restaurant, right? Cuz he went on to say that if you live with somebody, you end up sharing the microbiome. Yeah, and she yells to this poor guy was probably like, 17. She's like, you want to move in? You want to move in? A little premature, but I don't know. Maybe she wasn't. So
Unknown Speaker 58:25
hey, you know what I do every day as a routine. I take my little one my 17 and I rub my face to her. I'm like, I want some of that microbiome on my skin. That's the best lotion right there. I mean, I don't need to put lotion on my face.
Ken Brown 58:38
Your I'm scared that I'll ruin my kid's Mojo by giving them my kids,
Unknown Speaker 58:46
my little one who actually is a hyper metabolizer. That's what I call her. I asked her to donate stools from me. I said, you know, your skills could be worth a lot of money, because that could cure for obesity. And I said $1,000 for one sample Scarlet. She's like, Nope, not giving it I'm not going to grab it. She's like, I'm not going to be a rat lab. Mom, she gave me one sample. That's it. That was all.
Ken Brown 59:10
That's it. And this is this is not hyperbole. In your book you discuss about how the marathon runner they took his store he gave it to mice, and the mice immediately with no extra training could run 13% more
Eric Rieger 59:21
than they could before. Before we publish this episode we need we need to get shit studying calm. have it ready to go?
Ken Brown 59:31
Well, I will give you credit. A lot of the things that come across you do trademark it's like you'll just like call your trademark attorney and they're just trademarking everything.
Unknown Speaker 59:41
Yeah. Because so yes, it's it's kind of funny because I, you know, in medicine and you know, you come up with an idea. A businessman takes an AI takes your idea and make something out of it. And then you're like, wait a minute, that was my idea how many doctors have I seen over the course of my career that have come up with cures, and a businessman came, took that cure and made it a business and the doctor now, you know, Dr. Feingold, his book is the beginning of so many pharmaceutical companies, because that was without his book. Without that foundation, none of these pharmaceutical companies, you know, existed. And, you know, the fact that he had to struggle to get money for his research and keep putting all his money into his work. It was just not okay. And so when I started this, and I started the company, I said to myself, first of all, I'm trademarking everything. And I learned from the best Dr. Brody, because he said, patent everything, trademark everything, because they will always say, somebody will take your idea and try to make something out of it. So the man is genius on multiple level. Yeah.
Ken Brown 1:00:57
And the fact that you actually are doing what people don't realise is that you're going down this microbial path, a speaker microbial path. And to get these studies done, you have to file these nd eyes, these new drug sounds like that. Yes, I end that's it. Yeah, I end in Yeah. And that's, it's super expensive. And they make it they make it difficult, or maybe they do on purpose or not, I don't know. I mean, obviously, as as an investigator, where we have to deal with that a little bit with our supplement, we kind of skirt the FDA, but we still have to walk such a careful line, you want to talk science, but if you start talking too much science, then you have to file that ind and
Unknown Speaker 1:01:40
and I think, you know, it's not hard to file it's not hard to do it. I think this is where doctors need to join forces because really, um, you know, we lose when we don't work together when we were in residency and internship we were collaborating together to fix you know, what happened with COVID was really sad to me because the collaboration disappeared. All of a sudden, the media is telling you how to take care of your patients, and the politicians and the whole time it was like, wait a minute, the moment the politician can tell me what the Latina does in COVID, or Rosa Yuria or fasula, bacterium, press neiti let alone they should probably spell fasula bacterium proxy, never mind what it's doing. The moment a politician can tell me that, then I will respect what they're saying or immediate person. But the reality is we're entering a world of microbes, I think we should let the people that are in the microbiome world, lead that path and lead the treatment. At the end of the day, achieve success listen to the people that achieve success. You know, those doctors on the front line that realise different methods to to meet, forget ivermectin, let's talk about others, right. kosha seen, you know, cheap solutions be that cyanide, you know, eliquis all these I think those were hints right? When when I have a patient that's oxygen saturation 73%. And I'm freaking out because the patient doesn't want to go to the hospital, but I know he's gonna die on my shift. And I don't want him to die. I'm going to do everything in my power. So I'm going to give him everything I know. And then I'm going to call, you know, my buddies. You know, Brian Tyson say, Brian, what did you do with this? And then he would say, you know what, I've this. And then Peter McCollum. What did you do on this? And so I think this is where the collaboration of physician comes into play. Because we are the ones on the front line, taking care of patients. And at the end of the day, who do you trust with your life? The doctors that guided you this way? Right. I trusted with my life. Tom perrotti. Let me Yeah,
Ken Brown 1:03:50
I just want to ask a quick question on this, because I saw that you have done presentations you have submitted for different trials. You've done this, have you? A lot of the doctors that have had the guts to do this have had backlash. Did you receive any backlash from social media, from the media from anything?
Unknown Speaker 1:04:07
So I'm because I'm working with the FDA oversight. And right now we're doing actually clinical trials with the Department of Defence sponsoring it, which is another product altogether? I've not had the backlash as much, I'm sure I've had backlash when I tried to advertise to get patients. You know, definitely my there were criticisms and you know, and I always try to stay under the radar as much as possible talking about treatment. I'm more the microbiome girl and I don't think anybody really knows about the microbiome and if they want to go one on one with me and start trashing me, bring it on the ship is going to be caught starting. And I call the book and in January because let's talk shit because I said Look, I couldn't be full shade or I could know my shit. But I think I know my shift
Ken Brown 1:05:02
to that is awesome.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:04
So we'll see. I mean, it's a it's a path. It's a, it's a discovery path. It's, it's, it needs to be done. And I think I say to people, if you stop the innovation, you're going to be the patient coming for an innovation that's not going to be happening. You know, right now we get how many patients do get probably as much as me that wants faecal transplant for Alzheimer's, for Parkinson's, for autism, etc. You can't offer it. We're not there yet.
Ken Brown 1:05:31
So let me ask you this. So you've got your lab set up to do a really good job. We were doing it heavily. A guest standing for this podcast, Dr. Stuart Ackerman, him and I did a few of these super intelligent doctor, my colleague who trained in New York, we were lucky enough to steal him and bring him over about five years ago, he jumped all in on the on the faecal transplant, and he signed up, he did everything. And then like overnight, he said, Well, this was like, in between the FDA saying it's a drug and this and then he was able to get the frozen capsules. And then it was like overnight, it became cost prohibitory because something happened with the lab. And we just quit doing it because we couldn't get it approved insurance wouldn't pay it suddenly, it was super expensive. Right?
Unknown Speaker 1:06:17
So that's the peer pressure and the lobbying power, right? of lobbyists that basically, and I'm gonna say it out there because I think it needs to be told, you know, there is a lobbying movement that is basically stopping these, these drugs, these, these cheap solutions. And I think we need to stop that we need to fight as physicians for that because the moment we stop, you know, trying to do what was right for the patient, faecal transplant being one of them. I think all of us that were doing faecal transplant join forces in the microbiome meeting, the Malibu microbiome meeting that you probably saw, because of the fact that we saw that our ability to help patients were being cut. We were doing, we were helping patients we were doing using a bank that was good. And that ability was cut. I think, you know, the onus is to go from that product that was sold of open biome to go to Finch, right, which is now a pharmaceutical product, then, you know, that's fine, as long as you know, the data shows that it's working, etc. But I think you know, stopping the right to try and doctors from doing faecal transplant or scaring them, you know, I still do faecal transplant, you know, who's gonna stop me? I mean, the the FDA, you know, has said you can do faecal transplant for C diff, provided you do all these things. And even if you want to do it for autism, you have to submit an ind, well, I just have to write the ind, I have to follow the protocol and follow the guidelines. Nobody's gonna stop you if you're doing things the right way.
Ken Brown 1:08:03
So you don't have to wait for them to approve the ind. Just
Unknown Speaker 1:08:07
wait for them to approve the ID. But for C diff, you can do faecal transplant. You just have to follow you don't need an ind for faecal transplant procedure.
Ken Brown 1:08:16
Yeah. So I got a few questions. So when a few of our listeners heard that we were going to have you on they submitted some questions, not easy questions. Okay. So one of them is unfortunately, somebody had urdal bow like symptoms or probably see, though, went to a doctor in her country in Europe and received a faecal microbial transplant. And she didn't feel very good. Two weeks afterwards went back. He said, Well, we just need to do it again. And it's from the same super donor, he has this what he called Super donor. And she got it the second time and she spiked a fever started feeling really sick. And then the third time, he said, Well, we just need to just you just need more of it. That's what's happening. You're not taking it. And unfortunately, it did something that you have mentioned, even in your book, you mentioned it, it appears that it turned on something, and she has developed some autoimmune issues, alopecia sjogrens, things like that. And so the question that she had on this is, we know that there are some adverse reactions, you've discussed that there have been a few deaths, and I think that they they've figured out why. But in this case, what are your thoughts on the proper pre transplant, immune testing? That should be done on either the donor or the recipient? And that's tough to answer.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:38
Yes. So as I stepped in understanding the microbiome, I'm noticing that obviously, if you've got a donor that has a lot of prepatellar, you already have a lot of prepatellar. So the process of faecal transplant is more complex than just putting microbes, right. It's understanding what was it the baseline, what was the culprit of the problem? What was the microbes that were altered? And then, you know, what? Cause what problems did it cause in the colon? In other words, is there an overgrown growth of something on the colonic wall? That is difficult that the microbes don't implant for example, right. So there's three step process, right. So donor selection, first of all microbiome analysis, I think, as we get into the world of faecal transplant in the future, it's going to be microbiome analysis, right? What does your microbiome look like at baseline? What microbes are affected? Who is your donor? Is your donor, a family member, or a bank? And how do you do the procedure so that you can maximise implantation? And then how do you sustain implantation, right? So there's four different steps and all those steps are very important than very complex in their own rights. The first one, I think, the baseline understanding the microbiome, you have to compare with everything that you've seen that I have seen in the database, for example, so we're not there yet, right? To have a fingerprint of what Alzheimer's looks like Parkinson alopecia areata, to say to a patient, look, you're taking stool donors have a patient that has a risk of having Alzheimer's in the future, or Parkinson's because we saw some microbes in the stools that are potentially Alzheimer's or Parkinson's, right? You need to tell the risks versus benefits of the patients, right? So am I swapping see that if for potential of having Alzheimer's? Am I swapping Siebel for potential of having alopecia areata? Those are the real risk? When you think about it? Am I swapping c diff for rheumatoid arthritis, you know, ALS, MS, etc. So, obviously, that's, that's part number one is that discussion with the patient because right now we do not know, we when we take tools from a donor. And so even though I would love to take my little kids stools in me, and start losing weight much faster, or eat, you know, garbage so that I don't gain weight. Unfortunately, I have to be conscientious that I could inherit something that is not matched with me and could give me something else. So until we know what we're doing, I think in the microbiome space, and what those microbes are doing, I think it's a dangerous way. Of course, if the patient is dying, and he has a grandchild and his choices, you know what I'm going to use a grandchild or I choose to use a donor from a people bank. But I know the risk because I'm dying, I have Alzheimer's, I've als optic, I have Parkinson's, I have a debilitating chronic problem, that I'm or I have autism as a child, then those, those kids, those parents, those people that have those debilitating conditions, I think would take the risks without knowing right. But at the same time, we have to be careful in how we do it. Because it is so risky. The other day, I was talking to the FDA, because we were trying to improve faecal transplant for autism on 30 kids, we got to prove one kid that we're doing already. Of course, one kid doesn't tell you much. If the kid doesn't respond, probably it's because he's too old. You know, this is a kid that's 19 years old. The microbiome has already said he's got the neurological problems from it. So you know, am I gonna achieve success? Maybe, maybe not. If I choose success, great. But we want to do 30 kids, right? And the FDA said to me, Well should do placebo trial, are you going to plan to do a placebo controlled trial, and I said, I'm not gonna put a kid through a colonoscopy and give him placebo. I'm sorry, I draw the line there. And that's why I think the research that's coming out on COVID is really going to be a game changer to start saying, we need to relook at this placebo controlled trial. We need to start saying let's do precision medicine. And let's see what's happening with the microbiome before and after. So, you know, the beauty that we have in our in our lab is right now we're working on developing a validated assay. verified reproducible. We're seeing the data we're publishing it you know, the the the DD W is accepting my poster ACG is accepting my poster, you know, you're validating my work, you know, so the data is being validated by my peers, because they're seeing the data. I think we need to use that technology that was created of this asset and we need to get insurance companies to approve it, so that every doctor around the country can start understanding the microbiome, but also develop the The same protocol that Dr. Brody used the same protocol. Neal stohlman, US calling Kelly, Paul fears that Alex throats, you know, these giants that have been doing faecal transplant and have achieved 92 to 99 success in C diff, we need to use those doors protocols. I think the problem is that too often people are in a rush, they want to have the solution right away. They're not willing to wait for the proper research to be done. And then they go to people that promise them an answer, and they charge a lot of money. And then what happens is they ended up worse than they started off with, and that's not okay. In my opinion, you know, because safety is number one, you know, all disease begins in the gut. Hippocrates said that, and I think you've heard me say that, but also do no harm came from him, right? We have to be careful, we have to be cautious with what people transplant with the microbiome world. And if there's a better solution, which is a you know, a microbe, that's, that's only that's in the earth, you know, then maybe that's a better solution. You know, if what we need to go back to basics,
Ken Brown 1:16:10
I absolutely cannot tell you how much I love hearing the way you're describing this, first of all, the way you described why you did it is your why you go we have to be able to help we have to first do no harm. And the way that you're describing it is almost like well, if somebody finds a better way, I'll adapt to that. That's no big deal. I'm not putting this is not to start a business. This is not to know you do have a business, you do have this incredible stuff going on. But the way you're describing it as you're willing to keep an open mind. You have it on your own research, which is yes, that's fantastic.
Unknown Speaker 1:16:42
Yes. And listen, if I see that I'm I think though they have to respect me, and I've worked with them for years, they've been in my office, they've audited me for clinical trials for pharmaceutical companies. And I think the FDA respects me because I'm the kind of person who is very transparent. I, if I'm right, I'm right. If I'm wrong, I'll admit that I'm wrong, because that's what science is all about. Right? It's, you know, what we were doing and wouldn't be called science, Albert Einstein
Eric Rieger 1:17:09
said that being wrong is just an opportunity to learn. I mean, it really is it being wrong doesn't mean that it's over. It just simply means, oh, this isn't the correct way, let's go a different way.
Unknown Speaker 1:17:19
You learn more from being wrong than from being right, you learn more from the mistakes. And I think even the mistakes need to be published, because that's where you learn, well, I shouldn't
Ken Brown 1:17:30
be doing that. And you're doing that right now at this stage of your career sends a message to your children, which is so important. That's what I always try and talk to my kids about, and he talks to his kids, that it's okay to fail. If you're not failing, you're not trying enough.
Unknown Speaker 1:17:46
I failed so many times, and I you know, and you learn from the failing and you make mistakes in life, right, then you fall down to the rock bottom, and then you climb up again. And that's life. So, alright, I
Ken Brown 1:17:59
need you to give some hope to a big group of people that there's a Facebook group, a closed Facebook group, where it's the colonic inertia group. And one of the core members of that group emailed me and said, Please tell me that she may have some data on FMT and colonic inertia, do you? Have you had any experience with that?
Unknown Speaker 1:18:19
So Dr. berty, is working on an amazing protocol. He has seen some improvement with his patients, patients are going to him, you know, in Australia, they can do faecal transplant over there, and there is hope coming into the future. So colonic inertia might be a microbiome dysbiosis as well. So let's,
Ken Brown 1:18:42
let's hope. Awesome, awesome. Yeah. We already covered that. We already covered that. Oh, one thing about the adverse reactions, do you feel like in the future, you will have a protocol when someone has adverse reaction? reactions from people from the from faecal transplants, specifically, this one person that seems to get worse after each one? Is there a way to
Unknown Speaker 1:19:09
take something I think the first step is understanding what's in the microbiome, right? So understanding and we say we're research, we're willing to go into the research with them. So we do give people consents, and we give them still kids, but we may not find anything. And the problem is, once you you break something, how hard is it to me put it back together, right? So you know, once you damage something, can you bring it back to the same shape? And that's the hard part, you're working with trillions of bugs that have been damaged? And once you've damaged them, can you put them all back together? And is that the right method for that coin? So it's complex?
Ken Brown 1:19:54
Good answer. Do you have any other questions?
Eric Rieger 1:19:58
I think you've pretty much addressed everything. thing that I could possibly want to say about the microbiome, but I mean, honestly, I think it's it's a brilliant mechanism. I'm more intrigued by what is driving you to find these answers because it just resonates so much with what I think I've learned by working with Ken and what we've been able to find as we keep trying to find correct purpose and like you said, sometimes incorrect purpose in what we try, and it's great, honestly. So honestly, thank you. Thanks for really putting some some meat behind what it means to analyse poop.
Ken Brown 1:20:34
Well, let's let's let's talk about putting some meat behind this. So I'm part of a really big group now. Yeah. And Jim Weber and company and hairy sorrows. And everybody that's doing research out there in my group, Jai Lyons. rupt 700. Let's back, Dr. Hasan here and help her just have Yes, dump trucks full of poop to show all over the country.
Unknown Speaker 1:21:01
In fact, it's funny because I had a GI doctor from Santa Monica. And he came to look at my lab and he was kind of, you know, wondering what it was all about. And then he saw my lab and then he called this buddy and he goes into four she gave me a kit to analyse my food. I want to see from all over the world. I want to see China's people that live in China versus people that live in America, Chinese, you know, Japanese, and you know, I want to do 23andme of the of the gut, and that's really my goal. says, Yeah, doctors,
Eric Rieger 1:21:32
yeah, you're you're individualising medicine by knowing exactly what it is that this patient needs. And I mean, that's just we don't do that. When we say, Here's so and so x, y&z milligrammes of whatever. And it's really just an anaesthesia for instance, it's all done by either ideal body weight or actual body weight, there's a lot more to what somebody is going to go through than just their body weight. So no, I think it's fantastic. Yeah, this is
Unknown Speaker 1:21:58
how he says if he wants to be to do anything, just give her a challenge, and a challenge. And for me, it was not really that hard, because, you know, I said to myself, well, eventually I'm going to be that patient. What if I have Parkinson's that was gonna help me and so I've got to figure it out now while I'm like young ish, and and and figure it out for my future right? Or what if my grandchild becomes autistic you know, I mean, everything we do in life every action leads to a reaction and I like to think that if I do good then goodness comes back to me and I've been fortunate you know, in my life and and and and that I have to give back this is my way to give back. So I I'm very happy to have all you guys the biome squad needs more doctors. So we need all you guys picture biography. We'll
Ken Brown 1:22:52
put you on the website. I'm all about man violence mobile. I'm gonna go ahead and recruit within my group. I'm sure we got some we got doctors now and all owners of many, many different states. Wow, Dr. Hasan, this was an amazing podcast, my honour to be the stupidest person on this zoom call. That is I love doing that you are clearly brilliant. And my I want to call up the University of Florida. They're the Jacksons Jacksonville, Jackson Memorial, Jackson Memorial. And thank that, that person that said that they don't take away because they did a huge, huge service to the future of medicine. I literally am hearing this and I'm just going we're gonna analyse people's stools before we put them on a high blood pressure medicine. Because we may believe that maybe that interacts with it. The the most rudimentary thing that happened to me was I have really bad allergies. And they're just I just nothing was helping him Claritin D standard release and all this stuff. Well, I were doing a little thing where I was gonna do my colonoscopy wide awake. And we had cameras there, we put it on YouTube. And when my partner got to my SEACOM, there was a totally intact tablet that I had taken like, like long time before. And it was I'm like, well, that's why my allergies is so bad. This thing isn't even disintegrating because it's, it's a long, it's a whatever. Yeah, extended release. Now I have better results because I bite it. So I'm like, you
Unknown Speaker 1:24:21
know, I know it's the same thing, all these drugs. And then it's also what are these drugs doing? Like? I think one of the things Neil and Colleen Kelly, Nils Coleman and Colleen Kelly, want to do, and they had the brilliance to start the Malibu microbiome meeting, to bring all these doctors to educate themselves on the microbiome because as we learn things, we need to teach the doctors to bring them on. My thing was never a consumer product or it was a research to bring the doctors because exactly, if I teach you what I learned in the lab, then you treat your patients you know that's that's really my goal and my role. But one of the things they wanted was to bring pharma to our, to our world, to precise to do precision medicine to make sure that these new drugs don't affect the microbiome worse. And then to follow the microbiome of, of patients to make sure that, you know, the patient is fine, but then long term because we saw from antibiotics, you give antibiotics to patients, they're fine for their they treated their pneumonia, but then later on, it starts the chain reaction of diversity is lost now. And with loss of diversity, you know, microbes and viruses penetrate and definitely we're going to be showing that so long once the papers are out. I'm going to be calling you and saying
Ken Brown 1:25:46
let's do the podcast because you're gonna love it. Sure. Absolutely. Love it. Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. listening to everything you do. I'm gonna quit complaining how busy I am. I'm just gonna just suck at it. Because you're you are an absolute machine. And I love your energy. I love your honesty. And I love your why that is fantastic.
Unknown Speaker 1:26:09
I think we have to ask why. And I have a chip on my shoulder. You know, it's never good. It's always like questioning. So when people challenge me, I just like, keep going. So I'll show you watch me.
Eric Rieger 1:26:20
Those are my two favourite words. Without Sabine Hasan, thank you so much for joining us on episode 58 of the gut check project. Sorry, I was late, but completely why the day lose of information. And I just looked over at Ken's phone. We've been going for over an hour and it feels like well, it feels like we've been talking 15 minutes. This has been incredible.
Ken Brown 1:26:42
Yeah. And there's I unfortunately, I feel like I can go another two hours. I've got a lot more notes. But I realise that everybody's time is valuable. And we still have to do your second podcast once you publish the paper. Yes, yes. Those questions then. Oh, much.
Eric Rieger 1:26:54
Thank you so much. We'll have a ways to connect with Dr. Hasan in the show notes and anything else? No, that's great. Absolutely. Fantastic. Thanks, Dr. Hayes. Oh, you bet.
Ken Brown 1:27:03
Oh, one last thing. I mean, seriously? Oh, yes. Get the book. Let's talk shit. It's funny. It's good. And a lot of the stuff that she talks sciency here, she brings it to a lay level in the book. I thought it was great. Awesome.
Eric Rieger 1:27:17
Thank you. So 58 we'll see y'all next time. Bye, guys.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Eric Rieger 0:00
Hello gut check project fans and KB MD health family. I hope you're having a great day. This is your host, Eric Rieger, soon to be joined by my awesome co host, Dr. Keith Brown. It's Episode 57 of the gut check project. And today's topic is kind of, well, it's a few different things. Let's just put it that way. We let our guard down a little bit, we get a few emails say don't be so tight. So we're not. And Anna, if you're listening, thanks for the feedback. She's an awesome technician that we have at the GI center. So without further delay, let's get into the sponsorships Of course, are trying to get your daily polyphenols that are trying to calm it's a lot easier just to go to love my tummy.com slash KB MD. Get your daily polyphenols It doesn't matter if you're an athlete, or if you have IBS, like symptoms, or if you just simply want to make certain that your body has the tools necessary for your gut microbiome to give your body things like your living and course attend etc. It's all inside the large cup broncho poly phenol molecules and I slowed down there for a little bit because we talked about it quite a bit. But again, the cook broncho poly phenol molecule specifically and almost exclusively found only and I'll try and do so get yours today. Love My tummy.com and of course unrefined bakery, unrefined bakery.com amazing food doesn't matter if you're keto paleo gluten free vaid got it unrefined bakery.com that's on refined bakery.com they delivered to all 48 states continuous sorry, Alaska, Hawaii. They just don't have the means to transport. Some of these very perishable yet delectable items. They're far away. So what's that say? It says that they only want to deliver fresh, great tasting food, go to unrefined a bakery.com use code gut check and save 20% off of your very first order. And last but not least, KB MD health comm go there and get your very own CBD endorsed by my partner Doug brown as well as his baby artron deal and also Brock elite you can get all three of those at KB MD health calm around the clock because it's online. It's an online store very very easy to order. Use code gene CP to save 20% Okay, let's get into it. It's Episode Number 57
Hello, go check project fans and KB MD health family. I hope you having a great day it is now Episode 57 This is my awesome co host Keith Brown. I'm Eric Grenier what's up Ken?
Ken Brown 2:58
Oh man, I'm excited Episode 57 so we did our little three part series tried something interesting but didn't want to make a three hour podcast over one topic erectile dysfunction. That seems like it'd be a little heavy after a little bit.
Eric Rieger 3:10
three hour Boehner talk.
Ken Brown 3:14
There's, there's some science behind that one, maybe a little too sciency. I don't know. That's, uh, I feel like sometimes I go down rabbit holes. And I apologize if I'm too much of a nerd. But you know,
Eric Rieger 3:24
we're gonna call this episode two scientists one lab.
Ken Brown 3:30
You're doing a reference on the two bears one cave.
Eric Rieger 3:34
Bert kreischer and Tom Segura our get familiar, but we're going to try to not get too sciency today, have a little fun with some health science and probably show a little bit more of just how we talk in the lab. That's really what.
Ken Brown 3:49
Yeah, so we're sitting there scoping and one of our great texts on I was sitting there saying, hey, sometimes you guys get a little too sterile, like you're too eager to talk about the science and I'm like, Okay, and then you and I got to talk and because this past weekend, it typical things. I'm driving Lucas, up to Melissa, Texas, which is like 45 minutes north of where we live. And my son 16. Lucas goes, Oh, on this great podcast. I had never heard it. So I'm listening to two bears. 1k with Bert kreischer and Tom Segura. Just like, This is nuts. I spent like hours preparing these guys literally are like, I'm gonna get out of bed, not brush my teeth and show up and there's a whole episode on just that not brushing your teeth.
Eric Rieger 4:35
Kind of pisses me off a little bit because Joe Rogan and all of his comedy guests talking about how hard stand up comedy is, and what I see them do is just stand in front of a microphone and
Ken Brown 4:46
like, whatever thought pops in their head does that. Sorry. Anyway, so Okay, so we're two scientists, one lab, two scientists one lab,
Eric Rieger 4:52
at least for Episode 57. Email us as we go through here, and let us know what you think. Oh, just do a quick recap. Though, Episode 55 through 57, pretty, pretty awesome. Talking about certain viral infections and erectile dysfunction if you haven't seen 56 or 5556 57 get caught up. And I think we're kind of being shadow banned a little bit by YouTube. And suddenly,
Ken Brown 5:18
because now we're looking at these different podcasts like,
Eric Rieger 5:23
everywhere we go.
Ken Brown 5:25
It's fascinating because now we're seeing all this stuff. When you look at Dark Horse podcast, Brett Weinstein's, and he is blatantly open, he's like, I'm gonna put this up, it's gonna last for a little bit, and then it's just gonna disappear, because what I'm talking about is controversial. And we were talking about some viral infections, that can actually cause inflammation, resulting in long standing, erectile dysfunction, which I think is extremely important, because we're going to be seeing a lot more of this, even if it's not important, irrelevant to you at least hope that this can be passed on to a urologist in the future that looks and goes, Oh, this is why I'm seeing younger men with this. But it's really interesting because I tried to search it in different ways, and it's not popping up, then you search our poly phenol ones. It's like, well, right there.
Eric Rieger 6:04
Yeah, man before, before the pandemic, hey, you can search any of our topics on the show, and it will pop up immediately. And that's, that's, that's what's happening. So if you like what you hear, just try to like and share share with a friend. And then obviously, we just we're just wanting to share information. It's not it's not medical advice. It's just, it's just stuff that we read. And we feel like it's important. It's how we talk to the patients when they come to the clinic.
Ken Brown 6:27
Yeah, exactly. You and I both did something recommended by Mike Logsdon. for business. We both read the same book this week. This is almost a book club right now. Yeah, start with why by Simon Sinek. So I'm gonna ask you everything that we do. And it's really fascinating, because so much so that Jr. Actually texted me and said, Hey, you should consider getting this for your family. And you should for yours also. But really, it plays into everything. It's a book by Chris Bosh that says letters. For a young athlete,
Eric Rieger 7:03
something like that. But that's the one that letters through young athletes. Pat Riley in it. Yeah,
Ken Brown 7:07
it's Pat Riley, it's letter three athletes. What's fascinating is that the guy was on a podcast, the author and he was discussing. When you go into something, whatever skill you're trying to do, there has to be a why because eventually you achieve what you want. If you're an athlete, if you're a pro athlete, you get the fame, you get the money, you get that but if you don't have the why, then everything falls off as a physician. You go into school and you say I need to get four oh, I need to get four oh, I need to get through high school. To get through college. I need to get into med school. I need to get in good residency, I need to get into a fellowship. And then all of a sudden you're there and you're like, I'm here. Yeah. What's my Why now? And I think that that is it was such an interesting read because it's a business book. But really, what is your WHY? Your why to do things? What is our why for doing this?
Eric Rieger 7:52
Oh, this this podcast? Yeah. I can't believe nobody even watched I think one of the coolest why's is each week or each sometimes every other week. But we are kind of just forced into immersing ourselves into new territory, which is awesome, because it's actually the part that drew me into healthcare in the first place. How can I help? How How can we help it's not just me, it's it's a collaboration, you get a lot of information, you do the research, read things online, you talk to patients, you get the feedback you you see what works and sometimes, unfortunately, see what doesn't work, but we're just we're forced to learn so that we can hopefully help someone get better. And that's it.
Ken Brown 8:33
Yeah, that's the bottom line. Like I've realized how much I've researched how much I've learned how much we're unearthing and today's episode will be just like that eventually when we get to the but that's what happens when you show up to two scientists one's lab
Eric Rieger 8:45
no yes all the time. Now logs in had a good idea that read that book and I liked it because it had you separate what why is because sometimes you may say oh yeah no why is why is I need to get down the road No, that's that's how that's the how Yeah, you've got to figure out what the goal or the purpose really not even the goal the purpose of a goal could just be a mile marker but the purpose of what you're doing and why you're doing it and yeah logged in good find
Ken Brown 9:17
I love it because I believe that everything about my life has been about a why including developing on Tron to including getting into the CBD world including trying to do yeah, there was always a why behind it. But if you're not always thinking about that you get bogged down by the ones.
Eric Rieger 9:34
As a witness I can remember if you never set out and said I want to get into CBD. You said I wonder if CBD will help the patient and we you came up with I won't go through all of them but a few different scenarios. And it was never we need to shoehorn CBD in to help make it work. Yeah, it was never that which I found to be. We set it on the show before I actually thought that we would be led down by the use of CBD. I was like Man who knows I hear people say all kinds of stuff. Suddenly the lie was more or less realized just by sticking to how do we best find the right people to do this with? Yeah.
Ken Brown 10:10
And then even like without try until the why was I need to find something in a natural way to treat people that there's no pharmaceutical solution. Oh yeah. And now the wires become holy cow. There's so much more to this. And there's so much untapped potential of these beautiful molecules. And if you look at other episodes where we hit you, Sylvia Molino, Charlene, I will then hit and then beaten Charlene rambutan brilliant scientists, PhDs. And they're teaching us about stuff that I had no idea about a molecule that I'm wrapping, you know that I'm going all in on on this, and we've got it. But when you get away from the why, then it becomes the wire sales like this this month, why don't you know and you just go, Okay, let's just take it let's take a step back. That's the what that is a focus on the why metric is what your metric is, uh,
Eric Rieger 10:59
what you know, what's cool is he can come back and benefit you directly. And I'm just gonna use your most recent example. You hurt your neck. And you went in to go see Wade McKenna. And I would say the now you're feeling great are much, much, much,
Ken Brown 11:14
much better, much better.
Eric Rieger 11:14
That being said, if we hadn't been on the pursuit of that, why, how do we help people? How do we share that information? I don't think that you would have been nearly as gung ho to go and see someone like Wayne.
Ken Brown 11:25
Alright, so bring that up. The only reason why I knew to call Wade is because he came on our podcast. Why did Wade Come on the podcast? Why did he take a day off of a busy schedule? You called him up and said, Hey, do you want to come on? And it's uh, you know, doesn't matter how big you're doing something. But when somebody has a why his Why is to educate about stem cell? Oh, yeah. When he gets an opportunity, he took the time off his day, showed up at our studio, and just kicked some crazy knowledge, the most knowledgeable guy in stem cells, I'm going to put my I'm going to say it. He's been if you watch the podcast, you go, yeah, I could see that. Outside of maybe a couple doctors in Germany that have a few more liberties on what they can do. Wait is one of the most intelligent people about stem cells. And by the way, spoiler alert, that's what today's eventual science podcast about will be stem cells and how to improve your ability to have a better response, which I found out when I went so I got my third and IV infusion, one injection, three IV infusions, great team over there, had a long talk with Dr. Philips, his his associate that helps doing the IV infusions, and we get to talking about how can you make this better? How can you make it so that if I'm going to spend this kind of money that I get a absolute perfect response? And they have not developed a protocol yet to do that? There are no protocol exists? Got it right here. Yeah. So if you're gonna go get stem cells, or if you're somebody that has a doctor that does stem cells, they need to listen to this episode.
Eric Rieger 12:55
I think it's awesome. And it's just another point of collaboration, like, Wade will never tell you that he has all the answers. But he will take great information and see how he can incorporate it to basically just help all the people he's that he's trying to help patients and otherwise, so yeah, I think it's, it's a lot like the podcast.
Ken Brown 13:11
Yeah. So yeah. So anyways, what's going on with you in the family? How's everything?
Eric Rieger 13:18
renovation? I don't really want to talk about that. It's not any fun. Wait, you wait for deliveries, because there's just certain parts of the country that aren't even producing stuff. And I'm
Unknown Speaker 13:29
making glass and I'm making tiles, so you just sit around in any way. So we're doing that. We can't get glass for the windows, but we can't get tiled. Would you mind if we put tile up?
Eric Rieger 13:40
Actually, this point, we find the heavy window no sunlight. But, you know, gaging Mac of both to kind of flex in some of their entrepreneurial spirit this summer. They're building, building some smaller companies. We'll see how they do. Maybe we'll talk about in some time, but haven't quite gotten that point to do that point, excuse me to get it all off the ground yet, but it'll be interesting. Emory's very, very busy. That's, that's pretty much what's happening. Summertime. Yeah,
Ken Brown 14:10
totally. Oh, so typical stuff is a big tournament season. So the kids read a lot of tournaments. I got to tell you a funny story, though. So Lucas, got into this unusual tournament where if you win, then you get into this next level, like a Junior Pro tournament. And it was in Little Rock, Arkansas. And so loida and Lucas drove a Little Rock, Arkansas, and I had the funniest conversation with him. Because the first round he went pretty easy second round. And to hear Lucas tell it, it was great. And I loved hearing the way that he's trying to mimic the accent everything. He's like, Bobby Bobby, he's like, he's like, This is so funny. I literally lost two. I lost two games because I was laughing. That he shows up as tournament and this guy shows up with two rackets and Water Bottle, which is usually people have a bag and they've got a hole in it. Yeah, like it's level. Yeah. He said the guy had a little belly on the whatever. And it sits down. He's like, yeah, me and my friends we were drinking and they said, we're gonna buy an entry into this thing. I didn't think I'd win, but I won that first round. And now we're going to play you. It looks. It's laughing he's like you were you were drinking and your friends and rodeo and he's just like, Yeah, he's like, they parently think I'm a good tennis player or something. Which makes it funny because he probably was like, some point like, like, like an elite tennis player because look, as I just said he played really well. Yes, out of shape.
Eric Rieger 15:35
15 years a Daedric it'll do that to you.
Ken Brown 15:40
Because it was like it was the funny thing. I couldn't stop laughing. It's like I would I like a song a few times. And he goes yeah, if y'all if he can just slow that down a little bit might be able to get get one of them back. Okay.
Eric Rieger 15:54
This was mocking him or not mocking Oh,
Ken Brown 15:57
yeah, Lucas was imitating good old Little Rock, Arkansas. He goes on the changeovers, the guy comes over and goes, goes, Hey, how old is you? 16 is like shit. I shouldn't ask that. Now. I feel even worse.
Eric Rieger 16:12
But he's there.
Ken Brown 16:12
Yeah. Buddy show up there drinking beer behind the fence. Lucas was about ready to serve serves today's and here's one of the guys go. Yeah, he's legit. Love the story. I could not stop laughing. And he goes up because you had lost these two games because I did a body serve. And he tried to get out of the way and just kind of like instead of, you know, didn't get hit and somehow blocked it with his frame. And it was a winner. And I looked at him and I was just like, he was Wow, great shot. He's like, Oh, come on. Now. I didn't mean to do that. It's just a funny, cool story. Then the next round he played a really elite kid that from the division one player and they went for our match for our mouse Lucas loss and a third set tiebreaker real close. If he would have won that one. He would have played a guy named Sam Harrison, who is a ATP tour player right now ranked a little lower due to injury but he was ranked 35 in the world. Yeah, he was Lucas was looking so forward to trying to just at least see what it's like to get served by guys.
Eric Rieger 17:17
I'm gonna I'm gonna steal a phrase from some Arkansas people and say, Hey, boys, legit.
Ken Brown 17:22
That boys legit. Carlos and Lloyd are touring everywhere doing things? Oh. I, because of our last three episodes, I'm trying to leave my own science behind this. Remember the article where we talked about how Argentine plus CBD synergistically opened up? If you look at that, what happens is Arjun Nene is what's needed to make nitric oxide, which veza dilates. vasodilation helps. And so I was looking at it from a workout perspective. So I do I do what I do. And I ordered an excessive amount of arginine and citrulline from Amazon shocking. Yeah. I started doing arginine and citrulline every night like so I do. I do l leucine for which is for muscle memory I'm trying to get I'm trying to gain back the muscle that I've lost since my neck injury. And oh my gosh, I wasn't putting two and two together. And I started having the worst heartburn. I immediately turned into one of my patients where like, I wanted to like call somebody and say fix this. Now some reflux, some reflux, nausea, just felt just
Eric Rieger 18:31
yeah, that does not sound fun.
Ken Brown 18:33
And I do have acid reflux. And I do take medicine for it. I've tried to get off the medicine for years and years, and I just can't and I've accepted that. And that is what it is. So it was a last week. Last week. I'm sitting there. I'm just like, God, I'm talking to an architect. And we had a cancellation. And then the way that I do things too extreme, I was like, go ahead and load up a scope. She's like, No, don't do it. Like we got to try. Well, I've
Eric Rieger 18:56
already heard about,
Ken Brown 18:57
I'm worried that I've got like, like, like, I think I've cancer. Cancer. Like you don't have cancer that round. You don't have cancer. You just have some. And I'm like why in the world would I suddenly have all this reflex and then she points out? Did you do one of those weird things where you want some weird supplements. But that can't be it. That can't be it. Just go just go get a scope. So I took the endoscope and I'm staring at our monitor. And I'm trying to get this thing in and I'm holding it like this. And it's like right there. And she's like watching it she's going cuz I was like stop my eyes are watering just goes hard. This is why we sedate people, right?
Eric Rieger 19:43
No, no, no can.
Ken Brown 19:47
I eventually just got it down and I did my own enough.
Eric Rieger 19:52
So those are never seen one those are as big around as probably what a pinky probably maybe a little bit larger than a pinky. Imagine that going all the way down your throat, not you, you don't have to imagine you just did.
Ken Brown 20:04
eyes water looking at it, and I got an over here just gonna I'm gonna throw up stop. And I'm like
Eric Rieger 20:12
this may be the last two scientists one lab.
Ken Brown 20:17
Yeah, I think it is. Speaking of science, do you see what's going on with that? acetylcysteine?
Eric Rieger 20:25
Yeah, I did. I don't really like it. I think it's ridiculous. And I hate the category of conspiracy theorist and, you know, tinfoil hat thoughts, all of that kind of stuff. However, for a supplement in acetylcysteine, which is acetylated and acidulated amino acid. Two have been on the market over the counter for almost a full 60 years. 60 years. Yeah. Two weeks ago, the FDA declared it a drug. Now there's a bunch of different pathways that can happen efforts to Claire to drug it can remain a drug over the counter, much like Tylenol, or what the fear is, is that it will then slowly migrate over to just being prescription or at least controlled in the way that it's dispensed, like ephedrine or anything else like that. And it doesn't quite make sense, other than the fact that you've got MSC doses, the Mac in August or September, I think there was starting to be some leaked research about any acetal cysteine was actually proven once again, and it made sense. You know what lay back a little bit further. About four months or five months before that news came out, we put together a protocol of supplements that we felt like could benefit people who were suffering from COVID,
Unknown Speaker 21:45
Episode Three, I think, or something. And in acetylcysteine, or nak, was was a part of that.
Eric Rieger 21:52
And it makes sense, because just a quick refresher, instead of cysteine, you take it and the body converts it to glucose ion ion is basically your body's you making now your body's best antioxidant defender it scavenges rrs, or reactive oxygenation species throughout the body. And when it does that, as we've covered in many different episodes, you're stopping long term inflammation. Inflammation by itself can be incredibly
Ken Brown 22:24
necessary inflammation necessary long term chronic inflammation
Eric Rieger 22:27
not That's dangerous. In fact, it leads to many, many things disease and cancer etc. So in a single system that was being highlighted, because the issues of the lung, turn into cascading inflammation. And that's why the way in the early days of COVID, people were rushing, putting people on ventilators, they're losing them. However, the problem became that it was just out of control inflammation, and it almost became a point where the inflammation was beyond the acute infection of the virus. Now it's the body just attacking itself. And it is in a single system was seen or observed to be a part of a recovery mechanism by helping your body produce enough glutathione and basically getting the lung tissue to not be so inflamed. nak is known as both a pulmonary protecting as well as as well as a hepatic protected and you know a lot about this, of course you can speak to it. People who have acute Tylenol, toxicity or people who are long term alcoholics. It's recommended. Well, that's what
Ken Brown 23:33
I think that's what the FDA is hiding behind. After 60 years of being over the counter. The FDA says Oh, no, this you this actually started out as a drug. And we're gonna make it a drug again, 60 years later, because n acetylcysteine is it's it's a great antioxidant increases your glutathione. We could do a whole episode on glutathione. It's an amino acid. It's an amino acid. It's It's incredible. But then they came out and said this, so then they immediately pulled it. So I want
Eric Rieger 23:57
to be clear, Amazon did, Amazon Amazon did and maybe a couple others. There are still Walmart still actually did this morning. Walmart still has neck available. I just wanted to
Ken Brown 24:05
add that. And then I talked to one of my patients who's a very high level pharmacist and she said, Yeah, I believe that. It appears that some drug company may be using it in conjunction with something else. So they're trying to get it so that they can garbage. I man I panicked. I totally panicked. And I'm like, Look, I use it for so many things that I need to get my hands on a bunch of N acetylcysteine. So it's the first time I've ever done it. But I went to the dark web. You flirted with the dark web? Yes. What's the dark web and I ordered a bunch of an acetal system. And I give it to my employees. So I gave it to his green who's who's my medical assistant, fantastic employee. And amber came in grabbed me my other medical assistant and she's just like, Hey, can you come and look at this. And I walked in and is was just holding the phone. It was just caressing it. And she was just like, Remember, you are loved and we can't wait to do your colonoscopy? No, though. That's, and I was like it. She's really friendly. But that's way too friendly, and way too friendly.
Eric Rieger 25:10
And then amber goes,
Ken Brown 25:13
can you go look at the bottle you gave her? was right. I, it's my first time on the black web or the dark web, whatever it's called. And I ordered her MDMA for Molly or ecstasy. Oh, yeah. Thinking it was an acetal cyst. It's not. It's not. It's the opposite. Now, here's the real dilemma that I'm in my life. My patients loved it. I know. Yeah. So many great Google reviews based on that.
Eric Rieger 25:39
Yeah. Unfortunately, they hung out in your waiting room for four hours.
Ken Brown 25:45
Yeah, she only that was surely up to one patient. I did get a bunch of bad reviews, and everybody else has done. So you know, that's my bad on the whole and acetylcysteine. So probably shouldn't I probably should not just randomly knee jerk stuff. As Anna said, you just seem to overdo everything. And don't always push the Buy Now button. I did not do that. Please. I did not drug my employee. I just thought it was a funny story. When you were just talking about
Eric Rieger 26:12
this. This is what happens when we break character a little bit or actually, this is exactly what how we talk.
Ken Brown 26:21
I actually told news, I was gonna do this. I was like, I'm like, I gotta prepare for this podcast. She's like, what do you talk about? Like, I don't know. And I'm like, you were really nice. That last patient and then my mind just went there. Yeah, I'm gonna talk about that. I'm gonna pretend like I bought you MDMA. And she looks at me and she's like, what is in your head? I'm like, you just heard what was in my head. You got to start hearing.
Eric Rieger 26:45
Well, that was interesting. But I do think it's, it's kind of wild and you referenced him earlier, the Dark Horse podcast. they've, they've been amassing tons of information, not on an industrial 16. But on ivermectin and how more that they had an incredible guest on two days ago. His name was
Ken Brown 27:10
Cory Horry, pure core
Eric Rieger 27:11
and he is a medical doctor who is infectious disease and has served on multiple boards where they deal with protocols for viral outbreaks and pandemics and has served on the COVID board. And, dude, he's got incredible data on how ivermectin not only works, he's got the scenarios he talks about why he doesn't understand why it's been covered up. And he gave scenarios in Mexico, multiple people, these aren't small, one off studies, multiple people their 1200 healthcare workers 1200 healthcare workers, I'll leave you this 700 something 700 change of the 1200 agreed to take ivermectin all of them, highly exposed to two COVID 100% of the 700 and change, never diagnosed with COVID. The other 500 and whatever is leftover of the 1200 healthcare providers 58% 58% of them developed COVID COVID symptoms, etc. And they didn't take ivermectin prophylactically so we'll go down that rabbit hole. Check out Dark Horse podcast with Brett Weinstein and appear Cory it's it's great. I think the publish date was June 1. If
Ken Brown 28:26
there's anything to say about those two guys, they have a why. Death Row Weinstein's? Like I have to get this stuff out here. Yeah, that guy pure Corey, his wise. I'm, I'm the guy in the trenches. I'm a, I'm a critical care doctor. Why in the world is a politician telling me what to do?
Eric Rieger 28:42
I don't I don't understand. I eat politician or not. We're standing in the way of we've heard for a year now trust the science. I want to trust the science. But trusting science doesn't mean stop asking why?
Ken Brown 28:56
Oh, and that doesn't mean that in what they were talking about is exactly this. We bring up a lot of studies, and I'm going to do it today. Yeah, that is not this large, randomized drug funded study, because that's the only way to do a study that big that randomized that multicenter all that stuff. But he did so much better. He said, there's so many other studies that you can make a meta analysis out of and he said when he started talking about that he's like, the data is there. And yet, the government saying the data is not there. Like every time if you look at any of our podcasts, it's it's completely based on studies. Everything is based on studies from it is it is not conjecture. It is not opinion. It is. This is the study. Yeah. And that's what we do. And that's what he was saying.
Eric Rieger 29:44
I think that's the responsible thing to do. I mean, if we're going to if we're going to talk about subject matter, and it has, and there happens to be hypotheses around them or what's going to happen. Let's talk about what we actually know or have observed. Then you man, yeah, sometimes you're going to find a paper that later on is going to be found either wrong or not exactly on the nose. But as long as the data in there is, is honest, it's worth talking about, and what's crazy is vaccination or not for for COVID. I think that's a personal decision. And they talked about it on there that you take a risk analysis. And, and there there are some people that it may be perfect for there may be some that aren't. And Brian, I'm getting into that today. However, the the narrative from the government or politicians specifically seems to be trust the science, get the vaccine. And then when you turn it around and say, well, I've mentioned has this high safety profile. And it may work also, their retort happens to be, there's not enough data. But there was never enough data
Ken Brown 30:54
on a brand new MRI. I mean, I don't want to turn this into that. But this is stuff we talked about, called day long. We talked about it constantly. Like look, why why can you say there's not enough data there, but then you could say that, you know, just do this, and I get it, we have to get our country back working. And I get that we all have to have some assemblance of comfort. And by saying that you've What did I just see? I just saw something that you can, like so many places are saying the mask mandate is still in effect unless you've been vaccinated. If you don't wear a mask, we're assuming you're not vaccinated that you've been vaccinated. Like, this is like the new rhetoric everywhere. Yeah. So it's basically saying, Well, I'm, anyways, I don't want to go there. But it's just weird. It's just weird. Yeah. It's plain weird. Doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense. It's like give me given your employee, MDMA. Molly, instead of N acetylcysteine. Or some weird part of someone doing what else is weird? Since we're talking podcasts. So I was watching Joe Rogan not and he had on his I actually liked the jujitsu podcast, I know that you kind of prefer the the non MMA stuff. I kind of like that where he'll have john Donahoe and these people. Well, he has, he had this guy named Gordon Ryan. Gordon Ryan is currently the world of the world, world, and many people consider the best and nogi Jiu jujitsu submission specialist. He gets on there and starts talking. And Joe's like, Oh, so Gordon, tell us about your gut issues. He's like, like, had a bad staph infection, like, you know, a year ago, and I took like, rounds and rounds and rounds of antibiotics. And then I just started developing the severe gi issues. And now I've been diagnosed with this thing called gastroparesis, and which is your stomach doesn't empty. And it's horrible. Because every time I eat I bloat like crazy, and I stay full for hours. And it's like, and I've been all over, and they just tell me, well, that's just part of, they say, I have irritable bowel and things like that. And Joe's, like, if there's any good gut doctors, let us know. And I was just screaming, I felt like that stupid, progressive commercial with flow in them or on the beach and seeing that now, it's really stupid. We have a Roku now, and you can't fast forward the commercials, you know, on some of the shows. So it has the whole progressive team hanging out on a beach and flow sitting there. And everybody's like, yeah, it's nice to not work and just hang out at the beach. And then like, there was a man and a woman talking and she's by her boat, the other guys by his camper. And she's just like, man, I love my boats. I love my camper is like, Yeah, but, you know, I just wish I could put them together like in a, like in a bunch or something. And she's gonna, it's called a bundle. It's called but like, she couldn't hold back and she ran out and tried to sell insurance. And so that's how I felt I was like, I'm screaming into the thing. I'm like, this could be CBOE Gemini. I'm
Unknown Speaker 33:47
talking about CBOE yet. You
Ken Brown 33:48
haven't even discussed it. That's what's causing your gastroparesis. So when you have gastroparesis, it could be if you don't have diabetes, or another neurological reason to have it. It could be that your small bowel when it dilates, because you eat and it becomes distended. It tells your stomach not to empty. Yeah, I have all kinds of patients that actually are diagnosed with gastroparesis. I treat their CBOE and then the guest presses goes away. That's nice. And so I was just sitting there and then on the most recent episode, I just cringed, Joe's like, yeah, my friend Gordon Ryan was on here and and he's gonna go somebody stepped up to the plate to help them. Even though I know that Mike logs and tried to offer him I'll try and do it a seminar once, and I dm them on Instagram, and haven't heard back yet. But anyways, so he goes, Yeah, my friends. what they're gonna do is stem cells, and BPC 157 peptide. We'll we'll eventually do a whole show on peptides. And I was just Saturday I went because of that statement. I'm looking at this and I'm like, stem cells for gut health, which could be fixed by taking polyphenols. What is the relationship huh? What if we developed a protocol pre and post them? So is there any science on it? Yeah, we kind of kicked that around a little bit. And that's where the two scientists in one lab comes in. Right? So I got some pretty cool stuff to talk about today. So even if you're gonna ignore my dm Gordon, you should at least at least listen to this part here. Because if you go get stem cells, I can make it so it's better for you. So alright. Stem cells, which we've talked about for my neck, which we had one of the world's experts on Wade McKenna, if you go on like DuckDuckGo, or someplace where it isn't really kind of controlled, you'll find studies on Alzheimer's, autism must, multiple sclerosis, congestive heart failure, erectile dysfunction, liver disease, hypertension, pulmonary issues goes on and on and on and on. And one of the things that I was looking at, and then you go to the FDA, and you're like, Why in the world? Is this not being talked about more? Why in the world? Is this not being discussed more? And you could look at the political reasons as to why because stem cells, and I won't get into that today. But if you go to the FDA website, what they do state is there's no science behind it. And then the one thing that even Andrew Huberman talked about on his podcast was stem cells. The problem with stem cells is they can also make cancer cells grow.
Eric Rieger 36:25
Yeah, there's a caveat to that. But yeah,
Ken Brown 36:26
so that's what I want to talk about. So what is the biggest risk of these stem cells? Now if you look on Netflix, there's one of those documentaries where they discuss how stem cells caused infections that all came out of one lab and it was 18 people, millions of stem cells done, so I'm not going to throw the infection thing out there. So let's just address this whole thing of stem cells, and how can you make them better one? And how do we decrease the risk of promoting tumor growth? Okay, so that's what today's podcast really is, after we've discussed a lot of random things. So, Wade, and any other person that actually does stem cell therapy, listen up very carefully. If you're somebody who's going to get stem cells listen very carefully, very easy, based on science once again. Alright, so let's look at this, I found an article where it looked at condensed tannins from cinnamon, where what they did is they showed that by taking condensed tannins, cinnamon tannins, like cube rochow, it promotes migration of stem cells and accelerates wound healing in mice. So what these guys did is that they showed that the it's called mesenchymal stem cells, which means the stem cells from the bone marrow, this is an exogenous bone marrow stem cells migrate in accordance to the location based or aided by the condensed tannins. And what they do is they analyze the effects of the cinnamon tannin on mesenchymal stem cell migration in vivo, meaning that they unfortunately caused an injury in a mouse. They caused a skin injury. And then they demonstrated that the mice that got the action, I think they stimulated stem cells, they did something where they could show that stem cells did this, either they gave it to him or they stimulated it. But they showed that in the mice that the stem cells from the bone marrow more readily went into the blood and then accumulated in the area where the injury was okay, more so than the mice that did not have the cinnamon tannin given to him.
Eric Rieger 38:42
So just a second, follow exactly what you're saying. Obviously, if you're trying to heal an injury with stem cells, you want to make certain that they concentrate where you where you want them. And you're saying that using a natural tannin enabled the stem cells to aggregate where I met
Ken Brown 38:58
where I wanted to increase the stem cell production and mobilization even better.
Eric Rieger 39:03
So I got more of them more in the right area and more efficiently.
Ken Brown 39:06
Exactly. And what they what they showed is that once in the animals that they give the cinnamon Tannen to, they showed that following the condense 10 and treatment, there was more angiogenesis increased blood flow, blood flow increased blood not just blood flow, but that led vessels granulation tissue formation and remodeling were accelerated during the wound healing process. And what they believe is that the cinnamon tannin promoted tissue regeneration attributable to the mesenchymal stem cell induced tissue repair. So in other words, they believe that the tanan resulted in greater stem cells going to the proper area. Which is exactly why when I got my neck injection I did a five day fast leading up to it followed by eating and I took condensed tannins the entire time and continued to take them So I'm super excited to see this. So the conclusion of these scientists were, the results demonstrate that that the cinnamon tannin promotes mezen kaimal, stem cell migration in vivo and accelerated wound healing. And the key here is that the structural features of the flavonoid that type of poly phenol is the key, it is critical to their effects in both the migration and the location of it. So, not just any tanam, not just not just any polyfill. But it has to be a flavonoid comprised of proanthocyanidins. In other words, groups of flavonoids, we say it all the time, large stable poly phenol helped wound healing Yeah, through stem cells
Eric Rieger 40:47
Make sense? Once again, it's a it's a demonstration, I believe, of your gut bacteria, taking apart the large molecule and using the the aquaponics the the post biotics as the body needs, correct?
Ken Brown 41:03
Yeah. Make sense? The sciences are very congruent with where we then here recently. Yeah, I know. And I can just see somebody that's in the stem cell medicine just standing up and screaming at us. Like I screamed at Joe when I was like, it's just like, but you can't give it to everybody, because that'll just increase the effect. And the stem cells will migrate to cancer and the cancer
Eric Rieger 41:25
grow more. Oh, I bet you there's something more to that.
Ken Brown 41:29
But wait, there's more. So Wow, that's amazing. But let's get back to the whole cancer thing. Why would you augment the stem cells, if you could potentially augment the growth of cancer Make sense? So I went down this rabbit hole or mouse hole or whatever hole you want to call it. And so then I found this great article called the therapeutic effective anti cancer phytochemicals through suppression of cancer stem cells. The why on why we do this is we learned a lot we learned a lot that nitric oxide Oh yeah. And the nitric oxide synthase are different version. They're
Eric Rieger 42:02
three different ones.
Ken Brown 42:03
So it turns out stem cells, not a stem cell, there's actually something called a cancer stem cell, which I did not know. So, we cancer stem cells are tumorigenic, meaning that they make tumors tumors grow. And cancer stem cells are unique in that they have a very high potency for initiating tumor growth, tumor, neurogenesis, cancer stem cells are postulated to be different than traditional mesenchymal stem cells, and that they proliferate with unlimited potential exhibit high resistance to therapy and have the ability to fuel tumor regrowth post treatment. Now, think about that for a moment. We're talking about why do tumors come back? Why do I have lots of cancer doctor friends, oncologists? I guess that's a good way to call them cancer doctor.
Eric Rieger 42:58
cancer doctor friends.
Ken Brown 42:59
Yeah, cancer doctor guy. Yeah, this is about cancer, Dr. cancer doctor, friend, oncologist, I have a lot of friends who are oncologists. And I've never once said, Well, why do tumors come back? Because, you know, it's like, oh, just if you get a tumor, it comes back, we believe, and you can go into all this other stuff, p 453. Gene, blah, blah, blah, cancer, tumor gene, whatever. Whoa, wait a minute, what if your cancer, your cancer stem cells, I keep trying to do this. So you have AI nos going on, you have inducible, nitric oxide producing bad nitric oxide or not, it's the same nitric oxide, but producing information is in the wrong spot. So this is really interesting. There's, there's cancer stem cells. And they did this whole review in this article where they looked at the influence of phytochemicals, surprise, surprise, as it turns out, when they refer to phytochemicals, they're talking about complex polyphenols, on cancer cell populations. And what they did is they highlighted the importance of those known to selectively inhibit the cancer stem cell. Wow. Think about this for a moment. Yeah, we talked about this, but these guys showed in a lab. As it turns out, that large poly phenols actually target cancer stem cells in multiple different ways, such as inhibition of self renewal, induction of differentiation into mature cancer cells, and sensitization to anti cancer agents. Wow.
Eric Rieger 44:30
So so that makes them more susceptible to the drugs that
Ken Brown 44:34
are more susceptible to the drugs that we use. Wow. Now, the article is nauseatingly thick and was a lot there. Oh my gosh, it's super sciency. Yeah, super complex, but it's so complex that the bottom line is they showed multiple different ways in which large stable polyphenols can turn off cancer stem cells in multiple different ways. It was so wild. So polyphenols are good polyphenols. Good. And then I never thought about that, that when we talked about stem cells. cancer stem cells are different than mesenchymal stem cells.
Eric Rieger 45:15
Yeah. I hadn't thought of that at all. didn't know that.
Ken Brown 45:19
I know. And so but I know that maybe not the same guy cuz he's already I don't know, what did you do? Throw it on his glass and scream it scream at his TV, phone, whatever, the scientists that I'm playing it out in my head or somebody's yelling at us right now. Like, that's it.
Eric Rieger 45:36
Okay, I just caught up with the rest of y'all. Okay.
Ken Brown 45:43
I just have this image of this, this guy, because all right, it's podcast day. And I'm just gonna have a whole bunch of breakable glass here that I will just keep smashing glasses when I get a car. Oh, what's the matter? Alright, so I can just see him going. But that doesn't matter. That's not in real life. What about real cancers? So as it turns out, there's studies on real cancer. For instance, our old friend, epic gala, epic Gallo, catechin, three galley, otherwise known as green tea extract, we talked about all the time in green to extract egcg, Eg GGC, whatever, one of those egcg. But also, we know that that is a component of kabocha when it gets broken down into its various components. So which is a good way to get it bioavailable, which is a good way to get a bioavailable. So green tea extract is a bioactive poly phenol from green tea. It's been studied a ton. It happens to be. So we've talked about these other ones that have been studied before. It's like studies perpetuate more studies. I would like to just sit there and just send everybody, all the scientists go, you can do more with a bigger, more stable poly phenol, but that's but I'm just happy that you're writing about poly fit. So they've already shown that it can help block tumor including significantly bladder cancer, which I was unaware of. But the mechanism of how it did it has eluded scientists. So these guys went out to say, let's figure out how to do this. And the title of the article is green tea extract inhibits bladder cancer stem cells via suppression of Sonic Hedgehog pathway.
Eric Rieger 47:17
We've heard mentioning this before, and I don't know that I recall. It's a
Ken Brown 47:22
Sega video game dude.
Eric Rieger 47:27
Know I Know that I got that part down.
Ken Brown 47:33
Alright, so there's, there's gonna be a great backstory to that I'm sure that the developer of that had bladder cancer and then survived it and then said, I will make my next game. Sonic Hedgehog. So anyways, so they actually found the place where it actually happened. And so what they what they showed is the mechanism actually remains by blocking this sonic hedgehog pathway, ultimately, down regulated stem cell markers, cancer stem cell markers, so it controlled the cancer stem cell in the bladder. Wow. Yeah. Wild stuff. So the effect of the green tea was mediated by this what's called the sonic hedgehog signaling pathway, and normally wouldn't even bring that up. But I just love saying that. And, and if they upregulated that pathway, it negated the effect. So that was clearly related to that one thing. So that's how I just love how sciency they get. And I like I'm finding these these are not like this wasn't published last month. This is like a few years old. I'm just like, this is crazy stuff. So what they did is they showed that Taken together, the results indicated that green tea extract could be an important natural compound against bladder cancer stem cells, okay, and provide new insights into the effective molecular targeting of cancer stem cells. Wow.
Eric Rieger 48:55
Yeah. Why now we need to find out if there could be other body areas where other stem cell cancers could be turned off.
Ken Brown 49:03
I mean, what Give me an example of like a really common cancer,
Eric Rieger 49:07
a really common cancer. I don't know colon cancer. Breast cancer.
Ken Brown 49:14
Breast Did you say breast?
Eric Rieger 49:16
Yeah, you say give you a common one.
Ken Brown 49:18
Yeah. And breast cancer is really common. And the anti cancer effect of polyphenols against breast cancer and cancer stem cells, molecular mechanisms. That was another art. Oh,
Eric Rieger 49:27
really? Oh, you're
Ken Brown 49:28
not making that I'm not making it up. I was just waiting for you to say breast.
Eric Rieger 49:31
Oh, yes. It was on my mind.
Ken Brown 49:34
No, but for real breast cancer, we know is a huge, huge issue. And well, I think one of the biggest things is when people when we have a lot of people all of us have had people very close to us that are dealing with or have dealt with breast cancer. Right? And is a very serious thing. This is interesting because looking at the therapy of Going after these cancer stem cells, maybe a really interesting therapeutic approach. So these guys what they did, and I don't know these guys, girls, whoever. This was ridiculous. It was like a 50 page review. So this one wasn't so much. It was like a meta analysis. Like we discussed meta analysis is a compilation of this. It was a review it's like it's somebody Opus clearly because they spent forever and I mean, this thing was detailed. So I just laughed because the opening paragraph says this. In this review, we will provide a brief overview of poly phenol structures and classifications as well as the carcinogenic process of breast cancer brief included nauseatingly. I really, it's like it's that insecurity a dream, I always have like a calculus test that when I'm like, super stressed, I'm like, I'm like, I'm back in math class. What that really got into and so to summarize it, and this is, if the person that wrote this article, listen to how I summarize it, they're gonna grab that glass and just smash it. And I suggest that you wear safety goggles, if you're gonna be breaking glasses that are podcasts. Yeah,
Eric Rieger 51:15
yeah, yeah, don't you should do that.
Ken Brown 51:17
I don't want anybody getting hurt. Alright. So what they did is they looked at the interplay between a toffee G and A pop ptosis in the anti cancer activity, polyphenols. And in addition to that, the potential polyphenols to target cancer stem cells, the various mechanisms. The next 49 and a half pages, we're discussing all those mechanisms. To summarize it. polyphenol research is considered a very promising field, we have discussed this. And I really do think that the future of medicine is heading towards these polyphenolic compounds, definitely, in the setting of a proper microbiome. Sure, if you have dysbiosis, you may not be achieving the greatest result from eating a very high vegetable fruit diet. If you have a proper and very diverse microbiome, all of these things can be achieved can actually be achieved if while having enough of these polyphenolic compounds. So these are a few of the things that they showed in tremendous detail. So each one of these things actually includes several pages of mechanisms, modulation of reactive oxygen species. We've heard that word modulation of inflammatory and inflammation related factors, okay. We've always talked about it as inflammatory cytokines. Here's why my when I say information automatically just go inflammatory. And what are we gonna talk about with the inflammatory what's causing the inflammation, modulation of estrogen receptors and aromatase inhibitors? That's one, which is really interesting, because that could be one of the reasons why polyphenols are good for sport, because you actually increase your testosterone production. If you're blocked in the aromatase, which converts testosterone to estrogen. Interesting. Yeah, that was kind of neat. modulation of a pop ptosis you always define a pop ptosis on this podcast that
Eric Rieger 53:13
is programmed cell death
Ken Brown 53:16
program cell death, modulation of signaling pathways related to cancer stem cells, which took up about four pages of this article describing very specifically, how these polyphenols suppress the cancer stem cells from proliferating and causing what they do is important, super important. And then I know these guys know their shit, because the final one was modulation of the hedgehog signaling.
So that's for anybody who's thinking of doing doing stem cells. This one is specifically for Wade. So for any manufacturer of stem cells, this is pretty cool. This is I'm going to kick it up a little bit and get a little bit more sciency. But the way the stem cells are currently done is that they actually grow them and they it's the number that makes the most important thing Wade talked about the quality of stem cells that you get is super important, how it's grown, how it's harvested, how it's done, all this delivered and delivered. Yeah, for sure. So, these guys showed that reservatrol another poly phenol enhances the functionality and improves the regeneration of mesenchymal stem cell aggregates, specifically cell aggregate or cell sheet engineering. And what they wanted to see is that if you actually bathed these stem cells in reservatrol, that it showed reliable and extensive rejuvenate rejuvenative activities that have received increasing clinical attention, and what they uncovered was that reservatrol enhance the functionality and the numbers improve The regeneration of mesenchymal stem cell aggregates, mesenchymal stem cells would be when I did my bone marrow harvest, Dr. McKenna took my bone and mixed it with stem cells so that it would be there. So what they wanted to show is that they were able to unravel a novel method for using what they called pharmacology, but it's reservatrol based cell aggregate engineering to improve the functionality and facilitate the regeneration of these. So in other words, you can take in older So the whole idea is that the older you get the probably your bone marrow is not as good for stem cells, right? You can make it younger by according to these guys bathing it. So like if you're a 50 year old guy like me, and you do this, you bathe it in some reservatrol and some polyphenols. And that's just one that they looked at reservatrol I'm saying that maybe it could be a whole lot better if you do the, the the equivalent of a large stable poly phenol that has been broken down. But that's it's just it's fascinating science, the why the why of why these guys do things. It's cool. So to summarize, when if you're reading about stem cells, one of the main concerns is that it could stimulate cancer growth. It is a pluripotent cell, meaning it could potentially go where it needs. What these articles kind of summarize is that if you have an injury, and you take polyphenols, and you get stem cells, it goes right over here. We want all the stem cells right here. And by the way, we need more, and get them into the bloodstream to get them over here. Yeah, that's one. And then the other one is, if you're worried, at least according to this, that while I'm really scared, because I don't wanna have stem cells, and then develop a cancer. Well, one way to, at least according to these studies decrease that risk is to take these polyphenols so that you can actually suppress the cancer stem cells themselves, right? So like me, I got my stem cells, and that was actually brought up to me by several people. They're like, Oh, aren't you worried about getting cancer? And I'm like, Am I worried about getting cancer every day? Because I'm a doctor and I see cancer. And every time you do it, I remember talking to one of my cancer doctor friends. I'm calling oncologist I remember asking him, I was like, dude, how do you do this? Like you find 45 year old men all the time with pancreatic cancer. He's like, Oh, I get pancreatic cancers five, six times a year. Because it's your exposure. You're like, Oh, my gosh, that's me. Like every time you see something, it's like, oh, that's eye. Blue. Scary. Yeah. So anyways, I just thought it was really interesting, because when we talk about this, I really believe that there should be some sort of protocol, if I'm a stem cell doctor, I'm putting people on a complex poly phenol blend, like I'll try and do while you're doing it. Why? So that you get the most out of your stem cells. And we know that it's going to go to the area that it's needed. And there is at least some rationale that it could suppress tumor growth. Think of
Eric Rieger 57:51
it like this, I after hearing all of this, I already kind of put it in this what I think is an easy to use box for a metaphor. If you're going to do something, let's say that you've committed to being a sport. And you know that in order to compete on the day of competition, that you need to make certain that you have a good night's rest, and that you've trained that you probably know a little bit about the opponent regardless of what it's going to be. You do all of these measures to optimize your ability to win. If you're committed on the other hand to get stem cells for a particular injury, or whatever it is that you're trying to improve. Give yourself and your body the best chance to do the best that it can with stem cells. And basically this is prepping your body. To do that.
Ken Brown 58:38
I was thrilled are why for this podcast is if I can help one person get a better benefit from their stem cell. That's my why
Eric Rieger 58:45
I think I'm 100%. I think that stem cells has a gigantically bright future. Just from people that not not just you, but people that we my mom, my mom gets stem cells from wait for her knee. And she's doing fantastic. And Mom, sorry, mom, not athletic. Okay. So it's not like that. She went out of her way to
Unknown Speaker 59:03
do a bunch of you've seen her Instagram recently? Yes, it is ran at 1100 meter 11 second 100 meter squat and 2700 pounds. Yeah.
Eric Rieger 59:11
But, but there are there are some anecdotal and then there's some some large scale studies around stem cells, they do some great, great, great work, but like anything, it's new. There are things to find out how and they're always going to try to find out how can you make it better Wade? specifically talking about how some people were screwing up by utilizing lighter cane on the injection whenever they're they're placing the stem cells. Well, he doesn't do that. That's an improvement. In the therapy. This is an improvement in the therapy potentially, potentially. Yeah,
Ken Brown 59:44
yeah. I mean, I'm well, I'm the first one to say that. I've had a I would. I've no pain. Now. I'm wondering I'm like, Did I really recruit all the stem cells that I got that day and have gotten and continue but As I continue to take my polyphenols Are they really just kind of go into the area of injury because I've had a pretty remarkable recovery for such a serious injury that I went to three doctors that said you need to get an operation sure like now
Eric Rieger 1:00:11
no one and you know the idea behind any physician or health care provider that's going to have a therapy they're going to give someone you want to do your best to try to induce the best outcome for the patient and mitigate either the well obviously the bad ones but the the outcomes that just don't show any improvement at all and if this can help them do that, right huge
Ken Brown 1:00:33
so Gordon Ryan's gonna go get stem cells at least contact us Yeah, dude, I can get you like a $5 coupon on my tummy
Eric Rieger 1:00:43
calm Gordon. Man given you the friends and family discount five bucks off Yeah, man phytochemicals rather, it gets up
Ken Brown 1:00:54
to scientists the the first and only
Unknown Speaker 1:00:57
last
Ken Brown 1:00:58
two scientists one lab two scientists
Eric Rieger 1:01:00
no coats one lab. No beakers. No Bunsen burners.
Ken Brown 1:01:07
You could continue to grow that on every single episode. Episode 1022. Two scientists one lab no coats. Don't you just go on for like eight minutes,
Eric Rieger 1:01:18
light switches? No audience, whatever. No one listening anymore? Because I spent an hour doing this.
Ken Brown 1:01:25
Yeah, so that's awesome. Well, anyways, so we've covered a lot of ground here. But I believe in this stuff that we're talking about. If I'm going to get stem cells is what I do. If I'm a stem cell provider, I'd listen to this. I'd share it so Oh, like always, we always have to say this. This is I am a doctor Eric is a healthcare provider. crna we do treat people but we are not your doctor unless we are actually your doctor. But But what this is for entertainment, only everything that we talked about is not medical advice.
Eric Rieger 1:01:58
Thank y'all so much for joining us like and share don't shadowbanned us and share us with anybody that you think might be interested in these kind of health topics.
Ken Brown 1:02:06
Yeah, absolutely. And if you want to know what it's like to accidentally take a bunch of MDMA instead of N acetylcysteine. call the office.
Eric Rieger 1:02:15
They are still enjoy the call, but they will not give you a real they got so much. It's Episode 57
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Eric Rieger 0:00
Gut Check project fans and KBMD Health family. How are you doing today? It's your host, Eric Rieger, soon to be joined by my co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. This is episode number 56. And if you've heard 54 and 55, which we've gotten plenty of email about, thank you for all of that. You know that 56 is kind of the combination here. So we're talking about issues around erectile dysfunction, and more or less kind of the catalyst that causes it as it pertains to inflammation and systemic disease and certainly virus infections. So that being said, go ahead and dive in here to 56 I think that there's a lot of hope here. There's a lot of things that people can actively do to stave off some of these manifestations because that's what erectile dysfunction is it's it's a signal that something else is happening. So without further ado, let's get to our sponsors. Of course there is artron to get your daily poly females that are trying to go to love my tummy calm again. It's love my tummy, calm us, slash KB MD and get your daily poly phenol today developed by my co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. Dr. Ron teal is chock full of polyphenols does not matter if you have gut issues if you suffer from IBS or related symptoms or you're just a a an active athlete and you want to optimize your daily health so that you can be your best you need polyphenols, there's no way around it. So are trying to go to love my tummy.com slash KB MD. You got great tasting food, unrefined bakery go to unrefined bakery.com because it does not matter. If you have a specialty diet or not. unrefined bakery can make things available to you that maybe you thought were now impossible because you are celiac, or because you're paleo, or because you're keto? No, they have cracked the code using all natural ingredients. Go to unrefined bakery.com Get yourself some bread, get some tasty, tasty bread, knowing that you're both celiac and paleo. You can do it there. And it's gonna taste great, so unrefined. bakery.com use code, gut check and save 20% off of your very first order. They delivered to all of the lower 48 states even though they're based here in the DFW Metroplex of North Texas, so unrefined bakery.com Last but not least, KB and D health.com. kb MD health calm is the home of the gut check project. That's where Dr. Kenneth brown makes available his own CBD as well as broccoli and artron. teal, so check out KB Md health.com. Use code GCP and save 20% off of any order at any time. Okay, without wasting any more of your time. Let's get to episode number 56.
Hello, Gut project fans and KB MD Health family hope you having a great day. It's me Eric Rieger here with the awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. It's Episode 56, a continuation of 54 and 55. So, Dr. Brown, why don't you kind of set the stage for us?
Ken Brown 3:32
Yeah, so this is part three of what we didn't really realize it would turn into a part three series, right? That part one of this particular series. So Episode 34, was that I was seeing so many patients that were coming in. And because of the job that I have being a physician against neurologists, they're willing to talk about certain things. They're young men that had never had issues were showing up with erectile dysfunction. months, like eight months after having COVID. They want to know if there was a correlation. Well, because of that, I started looking into things. And then we actually did find that there's some studies going on with this. And so it's going to be much bigger than what people think we're just a little ahead of the curve on this. So Episode 54 was about how it's doing it. Episode 55 is a natural ways to try and protect yourself and Episode 56. It's a continuation of that. As it turns out, there's tons of science on this. And if you just look and you know where to look and you have access to people that can get these articles. It's fascinating. fascinating, because what we're talking about is not just a reptile health, we're talking about overall health. Every one of these topics that affect Well, if something affects your penis, it's probably affecting other parts of your body.
Eric Rieger 4:44
Yeah. If that were to happen, it would probably affect your mentation, your mood, your drive to do a lot of things. So yeah, it definitely it's everything is universal. Everything that seems local is really universal. Yeah, vice versa.
Ken Brown 4:58
Yeah. So it's We're gonna go over some really cool stuff today.
Eric Rieger 5:02
So just briefly personal Eric anything cool going on man we're still remodeling kids are fine. Marie's on a, she took a trip to Montana she's on her. They were hired her social media conglomerate that she built is the Montana filming awesome stuff that probably looks different than a GI sweet I kind of wish I was looking at it.
Ken Brown 5:23
That's awesome. For me. Same stuff we're remodeling, no big deal only issue is is that with some countries in some states having different COVID stuff, my kids want to start traveling more, but I don't know if that particular country would is going to cancel the tournament. And I'm trying to rearrange my schedule to go and book flights. It's just so annoying. And what a privilege to say that the what not, I mean, honestly a privilege to say it's annoying that I'm trying to plan a trip, although I'll be extremely important for my kids. We're in a position here in Texas where most of the economy is opened up. Oh, yeah, yeah, there's still places where everything shut down. So if you're a restaurant owner in New York or California, it's still super difficult. And I'm kind of complaining about the fact that I can't book a trip because I don't know if that country is going to, you know, do some blocking have
Eric Rieger 6:18
been talking about this today. But before you walked into the room with one we had a patient from Canada, originally from Canada, so as a sister who lives there, and she was sharing with us that they are still you it's almost like textile blue laws out there every day. So you can't go into a Walmart and shop on the side of their textile
Ken Brown 6:38
blue laws. Me. Ah,
Eric Rieger 6:41
so then in the old days, and I think even a New Jersey, in this, it's changed, it may still be the same. On Sunday. You can't buy certain textiles. Really? Yeah, it's just a blue law. I mean, I don't I don't know. I don't I don't want to talk out of turn there. But back in when I was really, really young, you couldn't couldn't go into a mall and shop at like a dillards was closed on Sunday. So yeah, I we don't do that anymore. No,
Ken Brown 7:07
we don't cuz that's like the only time I'd be willing to go to a mall, like, really early. But, but really, Mother's Day anniversaries come on? Yeah, I have the moles that are, you
Eric Rieger 7:20
know, no one in my household. But what was interesting is she said that in the Walmart, for instance, is kind of a universal way to break it down, that they have blocked off or quarantined off, anything that's not food related. So you go into the store, and you'll see everything rubbed off, you cannot go over there to make a purchase or anything like that. And that's it. That was in Ontario, Canada. So I don't know if that's universal for the entire country. She just knew what her sister was relaying. And so if you're watching this, this is recorded. May 19 2021. It's starkly different here in Texas, where our governor released here recently that we're at the at the low, and everything's pretty wide open,
Ken Brown 8:06
it's pretty wide open mass are no longer require they're suggested. And I don't think we're seeing a big bump. I talked to the doctors at my house. And they're like, no, we're not seeing a big bump COVID. Now, of course, I
Eric Rieger 8:17
live in a more rural setting in you do. And as far as what people say, is wide open, quite frankly, 1010 miles west of me is, I think has been wide open since a year ago.
Ken Brown 8:30
It's just it's fascinating. Because we're gonna look back at these things. We're gonna look back at our first COVID episodes. Oh, yeah, we were with everybody else. But I felt like we were looking at the data ahead of the data that was being discussed on national news in Fauci and all these other people, because, shockingly, we were pretty spot on the whole time. And I think I hope that people when they walk away from this podcast can realize that this is not a politically motivated, or really, I think that a lot of things that we come to we don't know what the answer is going to be, or are certainly open to the we're going to change our mind.
Eric Rieger 9:05
I think in a moment, you're gonna ask me a little bit about cbds, kind of the heads of he gave me but I'm not really sure where we're going. But years ago, you and I both had doubts if it did anything. And now I would say that we were open enough to try and you've got to be able, I think, to be intellectually honest with yourself when you have something new or information to make sure that you're receiving it, and you're evaluating it and not just putting up a wall because it disagrees with where you are currently.
Ken Brown 9:34
100% I mean, I think that that is when you talk about the cognitive dissonance, or Oh, yeah, how's your views are different than mine? I'm going to shut you off before you're we did a whole episode on anger or agreement and how much of your brain gets occupied when you disagree with somebody and you're trying to combat it? Because you one of the things I notice, in fact, I noticed this with this podcast, because I heard I heard Joe Rogan talking about it, you know joselyn To be a really good listener. I mean, one of the flaws of what we do here is that I have all this science, I want to make sure that we get through in a timely fashion. And sometimes when we're talking and we can have like, great conversation, I'm kind of looking at my notes going, Okay, well, we need to make sure that we cover this because this is this was on my agenda. Sure. I'm listening to you. And now just realize that I do that I'm going to work on that I'm gonna work on listening, as his most recent guest said, We teach in school. reading, writing, arithmetic, and speaking and listening, but not listening. Yeah.
Eric Rieger 10:37
All right, I certainly younger version of me definitely could have been a much better listener. And I think it's active. I mean, I'm not even trying to be funny. It just, as I've grown older, I've learned that listening is a skill, listening to someone tell their story. And even though you feel like you have a story that relates to them, if they're really airing out something, don't try to match their story, just listen to them. And that's, that's I mean, quite honestly, it's been difficult for me growing up because you feel like you're building a common bond. Oh, that happened to you. This happened to me. But you can see where that goes. When you're really young. It turns into a one upsmanship. And then eventually, you're like, well, I don't want to tell them anything. They just tell me what they did was 10 times better than what I did.
Ken Brown 11:21
Yeah, I'm really, really guilty of this, as pointed out when on my 50th birthday met Jr. and Brian, and it was the running joke was me storytelling. It's just like, oh, you went 10 minutes without talking to your boss. Like, oh, yeah, I'm
Eric Rieger 11:40
gonna work on that for now. Hey, man, but the greatest thing is, it's not that you did or didn't do it in the past, it's in everybody can do it. And it doesn't have to be about storytelling. It's, what is it? Who do I want to be? And how do I get there? And what things can I improve to make it easier?
Ken Brown 11:54
And as we're always doing the show, all these things are mental improvements that people do. But there's so many times when people have health hindrances that have pain, or they're not sleeping well, or that is the least of their concerns. Definitely, you know, I mean, I try and control my diet, I try and meditate, I try and do some breathing exercises on a daily basis. But it's because I have the luxury of not having severe health issues. That is not the primary concern, right, because I went for about two months, as we discussed last time, where my primary health concern was my severe neck pain. And that just shut everything down. And the only thing that I could really wrap my brain around was okay, you need to figure out how to not panic, right. And by practicing those things leading up to this, when that happened, I felt like it kind of helped me get over the acute phase of it. And now I'm into this kind of new aspect of now we're rehabbing so
Eric Rieger 12:55
and I don't want to derail that. analogies are just something that I've always liked. And we You and I both build on these throughout every single episode, we find an analogy, but something that was realized that occurred, I can remember being young, and we were complaining in elementary school, it was it was something really silly had to do with participant participation, and how you could earn to be the first one out at PE or something like this. And there was someone in our class who I didn't feel like it, several of us didn't feel like it earned the right to do it. And then quietly, our teacher pulled us aside and said, this is the best thing that's happened to her because she doesn't have a home. Like what you have, and I started thinking a lot was wanting to get to PE first she just wanted a place to sleep. And when you're young, that kind of context is important because I mean, yeah, it was kind of shoved in our face, but it shows you that your I don't know I don't know how to put it the immediacy of what you think that you need or want. Sometimes somebody else may need or want that same thing but at the same time they don't even have you said your health so that you could do the exercises to feel good sometimes you don't have the base things that allow you to Oh, Peter, just do whatever. Oh, let's
Ken Brown 14:17
talk about I mean generosity feeds right there. 100% I mean, generosity feeds Ron Kobani feeds kids that normally only eat at school, those are the only meals that they get when they go home on Friday. They don't eat until Monday. And recognizing that need and spending his life to correct that one. small niche is just amazing to me. 100%
Eric Rieger 14:43
and shout out to Ron generosity feeds
Ken Brown 14:46
Yeah, and we're we're avid sponsors and have been for the last couple of years and I'm just so blessed to have met people like that, that inspire me to be a better person.
Eric Rieger 14:54
Yeah. Now didn't want to derail But anyway, that just popped in my mind. Yeah. You know, you got That's what this that's what I think that we're talking about though how do you get to the point where you can make better decisions for who you want to be and how you want to be there and a lot of that comes from take care of your if your physical health and it will allow you to do that.
Ken Brown 15:14
Yeah, that and you know, be open minded that the maybe your initial ideas as you grow and experience them What if
Eric Rieger 15:24
when they can't be open minded because your physical health is bad. And
Ken Brown 15:27
one of them that's today was today was open minded lesson I came across it You and I were we're scoping today and I came across an article, which I thought was entertaining. And then you became academic on me, which then now I'm like, Oh, I just want to gloss over right now. As as, as a fellow there's, you know, you go to residency and then you go to fellowship. So you do three as a residency three is a fellowship, depending on what you do. And it became a running joke between all these people that I basically did. I don't even want to compare it. But as we've discussed before, when you rush or go through basic training, or you do residency, you get very close to these people, because you're all have this common bond. Oh, yeah, you're kind of getting beat down a little bit. But you're doing it together, but you're doing it together. Yeah. So in residency, I had friends that became cardiologists nephrologist. I'm a gastroenterologist. And there would always be this running joke about who has the smartest organ, silly, nerdy arguments, the kidneys smarter than the GI tract, and so on. And I would always go will the anus is the smartest thing, it could actually determine, can your organ determine the consistency between a gas liquid or solid? No other organ can do that? No. So I've always said the innocent, smartest. And I was gonna joke around about how a new study just came out that basically makes my system the winner. And it starts with, I kid you not, it's a bunch of new sites that have come out citing a scientific study out of Japan, saying how mammals, mice and pigs at least have the capability of breathing. They said breathing through their butts was the title. I had to stop and looked at it. And it was an Associated Press article, or a BBC or a New York Times, they're all jumping on this, because it's a bit of clickbait. And you and I were talking about it today. And I said, Yeah, basically, the rectum, or the distal rectum absorbs is anything that's put in there so readily, that this, the scientists figured out that they could hyper oxygenate the rectum, while not allowing the animal to breathe. And the animal stayed alive and corrected, its hypoxia. And then you started asking all these scientific questions as an anesthesiologist should?
Eric Rieger 17:51
I didn't know, I was just curious if oxygen going in is a very, very important part of the process. But at the same time, what's the vehicle or the means for the waste gas, co2 and other things to be blown off? Because as co2 builds up, you become more acidotic? And that's where organ systems can, you know, this is a gastroenterologist, they can fail. So they become too acidotic. And that becomes a problem. However, it turns into, I think that that question we were like, like, this isn't just a joke topic. This is something that Yeah, so
Ken Brown 18:25
I came in with a joke, I was gonna make fun of it. And they asked me questions. So then I had to do the thing that we do. And I tracked down the original article. And it's thick, and it's beautiful as the scientists should not be made a joke of which is what their bit what's being done. I guess any press is better than no press. But it's quite elegant. And I would like to discuss this in the future where you walk through this article as a, a expert in the acid base physiology due to your anesthesia training into how you can oxygenate, but it is kind of an interesting phenomenon where maybe we could use something like this instead of making fun of it and look at that and say, Look, in certain situations, maybe some form of rectal oxygenation hunter says, You and I talked about, because we're really into rectal delivery of other things. So which, which, honestly, decades or centuries ago would have been odd to think that you can actually give a medicine through the rectum. That doesn't make sense, right? Yeah. So
Eric Rieger 19:31
someone did it. They demonstrated that it works. So obviously, they may be getting made fun of today. But who knows, if somebody has an injured lung? Maybe this is a way that you can help someone who's in distress. And I can't imagine one's going to do it voluntarily.
Ken Brown 19:46
Why No, I mean, like, I mean, who knows? 50 years from maybe they will 50 years from now you may walk into a hospital code saying where the patient's crashing, and it's just like we need mouth to buy Right now
Eric Rieger 20:00
I won't work. I will not work there. I've been called things where maybe people have thought that I must breathe through. Now
Ken Brown 20:10
that is, so that is an example of just being I came here to make fun of it. And then you started questioning the science. And I went, you're right. Whoa. So we'll talk about that some other time. I changed my mind, I'm I am accepting that. I should not hang on to certain ideas, because our knowledge changes our experience change. And if we as everyone should not just completely hang on to idea because the idea is not you. It's just an idea.
Eric Rieger 20:42
Yeah, that's, that's a really good point. And I would also add that if in 10 years, I have all of the same beliefs and whatever that I do today, that I'm not grown. I've
Ken Brown 20:55
learned nothing. That's a Mohammed Ali quote. I wasn't really Yeah, it really is. It was he? He's, he's a boxer. No, I think he was actually quoted as saying, Do you feel like you're the same man now than you were whatever, there were there. Were kind of implying that you're, you're 40. And it was 30. And his response was, if I'm the same man, I was then then I just wasted 10 years.
Eric Rieger 21:17
Oh, yeah. Oh, I've heard that. Yeah. But I'm sure that's subconsciously in there somewhere. But no, I feel that way. Because I'm not the same person that I was 10 years ago, or 20 year old me, probably and I hate I wouldn't be free. Anyway, so what's up?
Ken Brown 21:35
Alright, so let's get into some other cool stuff. We're gonna, we're, you know, this is the part three. It's there's a little bit of science here, but it all makes sense. And I want if you're listening to this, when I keep talking about the different aspects of either reptile dysfunction, or the CNS, or the endocannabinoid system, picture, how it works everywhere, it's not selective. That's the key to this. People are not putting this together, they're not realizing that you can take control of your health in a natural way. And it's not conjecture, it's based on science. So that's what this is. Okay, so to recap, in part one, erectile dysfunction, we showed that inflammatory damage from COVID actually causes erectile dysfunction by affecting the endothelial cells, which is the lining of the blood vessels. Part Two was how effective poly phenol zz are in working as a potent anti oxidant and blocking inflammatory pathways, which ultimately increases nitric oxide, and also activating the cert one pathway. So after we get done with that episode, okay, you and I went to the next room, and you started asking me all these questions about nitric oxide?
Eric Rieger 22:55
Yeah, I did. Because you had, you had initiated, something I didn't. I didn't know. And I don't even know that I fully understand it. But that nitric oxide can exist in different forms just as the compound itself.
Ken Brown 23:08
So as it is, it's like, shit I didn't have to answer. And so I'm like, Oh, my gosh, now I got to go down this, this, you have to lay the foundation to be able to understand everything else.
Eric Rieger 23:17
Yeah. And just to add, you had labeled nitric oxide, and essentially, there was neuronal nitric oxide. I've already forgotten the other two that
Ken Brown 23:27
I'll go through right now for you don't even worry about it. Because I think that's what that is the really cool thing. So when people talk about nitric oxide, one of the things that I have heard before and in our adaptive or in our innate immune lecture, we talked about how nitric oxide can actually be a pro inflammatory. And so meaning you can cause inflammation. So now I figured some stuff out. To make nitric oxide, there has to be an enzyme called nitric oxide synthase. These are a family of enzymes that catalyze what they do is they're the thing that makes the reaction happen to produce nitric oxide from an amino acid called l arginine. So nitric oxide is a cellular signaling molecule and it helps modulate tons of stuff like vascular tone, insulin secretion, airway tone, peristalsis, which is gut movement, and it's involved in angiogenesis, which is blood vessel growth, in addition to that neuronal development, meaning your neurons, and shockingly I did not notice it works as a neurotransmitter as well. So basically, we're talking the whole body. It does unique things in unique places. So as Eric was mentioning, there's three main types. There's inducible, nitric oxide, I nos. So I nos is a pro inflammatory nitric oxide synthase enzyme. So what it does, it helps acute insults so if you get infected by a virus infected by bacteria, your ionos will go up. And during an acute infection, it helps get rid of everything there
Eric Rieger 25:09
does want to clarify, you're saying that's the enzyme not nitric oxide, I nos is the enzyme,
Ken Brown 25:14
yes or no. So as it turns out, an imbalance of nitric oxide will result in oxidation. But we're going to get into this. And this is where it gets really neat. The AI nos has a specific role in making sure that there's an inflammatory process that happens. Okay, so I'm just saying that nitric oxide synthase. So if you're out there buying supplements, and you're like, oh, man, it's increases nitric oxide. You want to know, how is it? Yeah, arginine is at the substrate. Yeah, because if you're somebody with chronic inflammation, tons of inflammation that's going on, and you start beating yourself, Argentine, theoretically, you could be feeding your ionos. Because, like an acute infection with a bacteria or virus, you want this to happen, because you want to squash that. But if you have chronic inflammatory cytokines going on, it will actually induce more eyeness. So in other words, if you're chronically inflamed, yeah, taking Argentine could be fueling the fire that's doing it. So if you have chronic inflammation, I nos has been been associated with creating more of the inflammatory cascade, which results in more ionos, which results in a vicious circle. Ultimately, I nos is been implicated in being very high in autoimmune disease, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, multiple sclerosis, and even strokes. So when we talk about nitric oxide, it is all about the balance and about where it's happening. And Angie sent me a really cool article explaining specifically about how certain cytokines will induce ionos. But that's irrelevant. Bottom line is, if you are chronically inflamed, and your eye nos is using this against you, so it's using your fuel against you, you have to stop the chronic inflammation first.
Eric Rieger 27:05
That makes sense, though, because the probably the most notable activity of nitric oxide on its surface, regardless of where it comes from, is basal dilation and a key part or key component of an inflammatory process just like carrying away anything else is recruitment, recruitment of cytokines or whatever needs to be so it makes it makes sense.
Ken Brown 27:26
Yeah, that that actually makes sense. And that was surprising to me, because I did not know about this until I started researching for this. The second type that we talked about on the second episode is endothelial nitric oxide, e nos. This is found in the lining of blood vessels. This aids in tissue repair, regeneration. And the key here is it enhances blood flow, and I did not know this. It dissolves plaques. Hmm. And it will dilate the blood vessel. Yeah, so we talked about this during the poly phenol episode. And it does this by several different ways, but it dramatically activates endothelial endothelial, nitric oxide synthase in us. And so that's one of the ways that does it. And another really simple way to do it is to have is to go exercise when you exercise, you release enas. And that's what allows for the blood vessel dilation and everything. Okay, I bring up the plaques because as we sit there and talk about if you have coronary artery disease, and you're put on Plavix and things like that, nobody's discussing this. Now. How do you turn on your emails, it gets rid of plaques increase the blood vessels. It's doing what these pharmacologic agents are hoping to do without the side effects of a cerebral bleed are these different issues? Interesting something to think about? If you can turn on the enzyme, which does this, then you can do it through exercise and or through various things. We're going to get into all of them.
Eric Rieger 28:58
Something just popped in my head. Of course, we've talked previously, you've probably year and a half ago, about different diet intervals, fasting and intermittent fasting, and how those have been shown especially like water fasting for over 72 hours, I think it is, can demonstrate or they've shown that you can I think valter Longo talked about you could initiate the decrease in plaques and stuff like me. Is that related, do you think to enough? Actually,
Ken Brown 29:30
I absolutely think that there is something about that. I think that there's some other components to it. Dr. William Davis discussed how as a cardiothoracic surgeon or cardiologist remember what he is. But he said that he's taking people that had 90% plaques and put them on a five day fast and then redid their AMG grant angiogram. Yeah. And it was clean. So there is something to this. So if you're going to do this, and if you have fast you turn on, I mean, I'm speculating. Now if you turn on your stem cells and you increase The nos, you're going to you need something to clear the plaques. Yeah, dilate the blood vessels. So you don't cause a clot. Think about that. It dilates. And if you've got plaques there, it shifts them off, and it's in a big pipe, so it doesn't stick. Yeah. If those plaques shear off into what we discussed in the last episode, where it creates the bumps, hung up is the thumb over the hose thing. It's the thumb over the hose. It'll just block it. So enough, very important. Interesting. Now, you and I are always about the brain. So now let's talk about neuronal nitric oxide and nos. This acts on the brain in the nervous system enhances the ability of the brain and nervous system to adapt to change, and enhance the communication between neurons and to recover from insult. So enmasse modulates neuronal function through release of neuro transmitters, when you said earlier, is that the nitric oxide, they have actually proven that and nos can do things directly. Okay, I nos can do things directly. He nos can do things directly independent of nitric oxide. Wow. Okay. And they get turned on for different reasons. So this has been shown to be involved in long term prevention of depression, and improved memory formation. So when you have en nos going on, and it's also part of the neural plasticity and regeneration. I'm a big fan of the Huberman podcast and he, his whole, his whole theme is neural plasticity. And this guy hasn't even talked about this yet. talks about everything else, but I'm like, calm and start talking some and so if you if you know him, or whatever it's yell, you know, you're not even talking in nice, man, you're just scratching the surface. But um, you could say it like that also. Alright, so here's the part that we were confused by. Okay. So your question to me was, I don't get how nitric oxide functions differently in different places. And I just stared at you blankly after our episode not
Eric Rieger 32:06
clarified not just as a molecule unless it's being contained, or specifically only releases certain time that that was that was our discussion.
Ken Brown 32:13
Yes. So as it turns out, nitric oxide is nitric oxide. Okay. So it's not like there's different nitric oxides that we know of right now. But the different nitric oxide synthase is caused different responses. So first would be the amount of nitric oxide produced too much, and you can't clear it, it becomes a pro inflammatory,
Eric Rieger 32:36
oxidized, right?
Ken Brown 32:36
It'll oxidize, okay. That's the first thing and the second that each type of these enzymes can actually have a direct effect on the cells in the local area. So like, in the case of ionos, it can actually increase oxidative stress through superoxide production, or en nos can have direct neurotransmitter capabilities. So a lot of science just there. It's all
Eric Rieger 33:02
brand new, but that that brings some clarity that
Ken Brown 33:05
it brings some clarity, which which will bring clarity to all these other studies I'm going to bring up and we're going to go through really quickly and by all I just made a few, but it it reiterates that what we're talking about and what you can do for your health is based on science
Eric Rieger 33:18
now that's fantastic.
Ken Brown 33:20
Okay, so while I was figuring out all this nitric oxide stuff, this is actually where this went down a rabbit hole. I kept finding studies that they kept discussing the endocannabinoid system and nitric oxide. And I ended up going down some rabbit holes and discovered some studies on how cannabidiol CBD and the endocannabinoid system is involved in this whole process. And ultimately, how it relates to erectile dysfunction because if you're like this is part three of erectile dysfunction. I haven't heard anything about that yet.
Eric Rieger 33:52
Yeah, well, it is where we talk to them as part of an inflammatory process check jack and is the ECS and have a problem with with too much inflammatory process? Yes, yes,
Ken Brown 34:03
sir. It does. Alright, so ECS? endocannabinoid system. Eric, can you just recap what it is? Oh,
Eric Rieger 34:10
no cannabinoid system we have it all throughout our entire body. It basically is the copyright strikes the balance between reacting to something but not overreacting. Let's see here. You got to get some some cannabis. Or I'm sorry, I'm gonna say the right the neurotransmitters that we have or the cannabinoids, endogenous Canada in the largest
Ken Brown 34:31
category
Eric Rieger 34:33
was tripping over my own words but so you've had an and amide into ag. There's the two main ones and then to augment that activity, you can take exogenous which means you consume it. cannabinoids, THC and CBD with CBD being the one that we legally use to attenuate or lessen issues of inflammatory process, absolutely
Ken Brown 34:56
by increasing your own endocannabinoids and probably a little bit of direct stimulation as the science becomes more but yeah,
Eric Rieger 35:03
see it so and like everything in the body, you know, neurotransmitters are consumed by enzymes. And so what CBD they think does it doesn't necessarily replace an end of mind, for instance, but I think what it does or it can do is it will stop some of the hyperactivity of the enzyme that gobbles up an animal.
Ken Brown 35:24
Correct. So I think that's pretty much what you I think that's exactly what I want to hear. Yeah, that's, that's exactly. Alright. So knowing that the endocannabinoid system, if you've not read about that, or if you've heard some things about CBD, that it's shocking how much science there is on all of this, and how nobody really talks about this. And it changes and it changes. And it changes when scientists do stuff. But let's talk about this. Alright, so I found some really cool stuff going down this rabbit hole. At first, they were talking about three studies briefly out of the same university in Egypt, because I think that they knocked over the first domino and went, well, what happens when this happens? What happens when this happens? And it's actually really cool because it applies to humans directly. So the key to all these studies is how the nitric oxide synthase pathway was regulated, and it's regulated independent of the colon nergic pathway, which in the episode 54, we went into great detail about Yeah, so in other words, it's another way to stimulate nitric oxide synthase these guys figured this out. Okay, so the first paper that they published, looked at how the CB one receptor interacts with enough endothelial nitric oxide synthase, they were able to show that the how the effect by increasing a Nandha mind, the endocannabinoid that Eric just talked about caused relaxation in the corpus cavernosa. corpus cavernosum are the spongy, blood filled vessels in your penis that allows for interaction. It was not through us through acetylcholine, which is how every other urology book describes erection. Yeah, now one medical book that I've come across actually talks about CB one doing this. So this is fascinating about this. So and it is doing this by actually increasing inas, the endothelial nitric oxide synthase. So by stimulating CB one through an and amide, they could actually show an increase of the e nos. And this resulted in increased corpus cavernosum blood flow.
Eric Rieger 37:33
That's impressive. For a lot of different reasons. Number one, that no one's really glommed on to it or captured it. It's understandable that while you were in training that it hadn't been discussed at all, because I don't think that the the idea that an ECS existed until the 90s, so that that's okay. And so now you've got to figure out where all these functions are. But what what I found already and what you said is a change in science and really changing the way that I'm approaching it is I thought that for the most part, cb ones were in the CNS, or just the, you know, the brain and spinal cord.
Ken Brown 38:08
That's a really good point. Yeah, because we've always been taught that they say that CB one is or I'm sorry, we haven't been taught in the most recent books have been published that discuss how CB one is more related to the neurologic aspects. These guys are showing that now send your penis also.
Eric Rieger 38:21
Yeah, I don't even just started. Sometimes what we get accused of thinking with
Ken Brown 38:27
anyway, I gotta study for that also. So then the same group said, Well, wait a minute, we've just discovered something really cool. So they said, Well, what happens in disease? So they took some rats and they gave them cirrhosis? I'm not really to really get into the details, whatever, get into the, you know, like the methods of the study. Okay, so I picture a bunch of really cool rats hanging out at a bar for hours on end. They're like, Hey, man, we're just talking about we got this great lab gig and they didn't know that there that they were causing cirrhosis. I think it was done in a very different way. But I don't think I imagined it that way. Yeah, that you can imagine that way. I'm gonna imagine it that way. So what they did is they cause cirrhosis in rats, and then they were able to demonstrate enhanced relaxation of the corpus cavernosum those spongy tissues. In other words, they showed increased blood flow, when the CB one system was activated once again using an and amide then they wanted to have the cause and effect. And what they did is they blocked the CB one receptor, and there was nothing happened. So it was definitely related to the endocannabinoid system, not some other weird thing that we haven't figured out. This is the cause and effect of this receptor stimulation. So the unique thing about this is even in a disease state like cirrhosis, it helped these little rats to have directions directions. Yeah. Which is interesting because they're talking about cirrhosis. And remember the episode that we actually debunked how the FDA came out and said that CBD causes cirrhosis? Oh,
Eric Rieger 40:04
yeah, I recall that. And it was completely erroneous.
Ken Brown 40:08
Yeah, it's completely erroneous. And it didn't make any sense at all. Where is that we got one of those apps. I don't even know what episode it was. But we actually talked about that. And this is an example of Look, this is a way to take a certain disease, which generally has severe erectile dysfunction and they're like, now if you stimulate this looks like you can overcome it in different way. So that's cirrhosis, but you're like, ah, only a small percentage of drunken rats gets a very small percentage.
Eric Rieger 40:40
But unfortunately, that's not true either.
Ken Brown 40:44
But there's a there's a much higher percentage of donut loving rats that have Yeah, so they got so excited after that first study that they did a third study where they looked at the endocannabinoid system in diabetic rats Okay, then they showed on this study that the first thing is once they made the the rats diabetic, their baseline endothelial nitric oxide synthase, Enos was lower than all the non diabetic rats Think about that for a moment, okay, by having diabetes, your e nos is lower. In other words, your ability to produce nitric oxide becomes less
Eric Rieger 41:25
Yeah, and and all the ramifications that you talked about what he nos actually does vascular, you're losing that ability, you're
Ken Brown 41:32
losing it, it's not just in your penis, you're losing it everywhere, and nobody's talking about that aspect, which is, why don't we focus on something to increase the e nos. Alright, so by adding a Nanda amide, directly, they showed increased vascular activity in the corpus callosum and increased nitric oxide consistent, proportionally to the increase in nitric oxide synthase or enas. Now this part is really cool. When they added Argentine l arginine, which is a substrate to make nitric oxide, it synergistically went up. Make sense? So if you have a proper diet, and you are have a balanced endocannabinoid system, even if you have diabetes, your ability to have an erection is should go up based on these animal studies. And you know, we're not making any claims here. I'm just saying, based on these studies, it's super interesting to talk about.
Eric Rieger 42:26
Yeah, no, it's it's, it's fascinating. I mean, and let's, let's call it what it is the the meds that have been approved to treat erectile dysfunction, they essentially they got here, we talked about the five different ways or the five different things that have to happen for an erection to occur. Essentially, what viagara is doing is it's stopping the phosphate arrays from breaking down. So this is what that that was a valid mechanism to address. This is yet another, in my opinion, valid mechanism to address
Ken Brown 42:57
Yeah, so viagara doesn't work until you've arched actually formed the nitric oxide, right. So once you form it, you can have a longer sustained direction due to not breaking down the nitric oxide. man you got to get it started someplace. Well, one great way to do it looks like is to make sure that you have a balanced endocannabinoid system.
Eric Rieger 43:16
Yeah, no, that makes sense. And I've never heard that before. And right now,
Ken Brown 43:20
all of this is, all of this is new to me. I've got to be totally honest. And it was all sparked off of you asking you a question. I don't really get the whole, why you can act differently. And then this led to these things. Thank goodness. And that's what I love about hanging out with you is that you ask questions. You got to I mean, there's times where you're not been there and you're just like, Why is the sky blue? And why is why do my feet feel so heavy and I just have to look up everything.
Eric Rieger 43:48
I can't even come up with something ridiculous.
Ken Brown 43:52
Alright, so then, here's another interesting study by a totally different group. They were looking at it in a more indirect way. So your response of which head is actually responsible for the sexual function. These guys took some of this information and I bring this up, because this is looking at the end neurone the end nos process or the neuronal nitric oxide synthase. They looked at how the endocannabinoid system helps improve neuronal and Nos. and in prior studies, it was shown that a NAND amide helps not only form and nos, but it also works to drive the nitric oxide into neuronal cells. So and amide goes, Hey, and nos we need some more nitric oxide. They produce it and then of my grabs, it shoves it in a neuron.
Eric Rieger 44:47
Maybe I'm leaving too far ahead, but this sounds like neuroplasticity could be enhanced simply with a healthy ECS
Ken Brown 44:56
100%. So in this study, what they did is they took neuronal cells. And they showed how stimulation of the CB one leads to a massive increase in neuronal nitric oxide. Now, if you say massive, Well, isn't that inflammatory? If you have something that puts it in a cell and puts it to using us, it's been you. Yeah, it's not accumulating. Yeah. So the CB one receptor and the N nos protein have been shown to be in close proximity. So, and randomize here, cb one receptors here, I'm sorry, the nitric oxide synthase stimulation is here, a Nana Midas or the CB one receptors here. And when they're together, this is where nitric oxide will help not only the neuron that they live in, but since it can move over, and it is nitric oxide, which is a gas I guess. It moves over and it can work in what's called a parrot grind function. In other words, it can help its neighbors. So if a cell gets injured, yeah, and sends a signal and your Endocannabinoid is healthy, it'll stimulate en nos and say, let's get some nitric oxide over here Help Help my friend who's just been injured. Fascinating,
Eric Rieger 46:13
very, and that's the first time that there's been any of this is very superficial, but it's the first time I've ever felt like there's context or who was it that was talking to us about CBD, and that they were studying it for Ms stuff. Because if you're thinking about how ms functions and the breakdown, a lot of that comes down to the schwann cells file and and she's breaking my own sheath. And so you're you're losing transmission, you're you're leaking it's there's no insulation on the long nerve. So what if that role of CBD in part is that not only is it staving off inflammation, but it's actually allowing other neurons in the area to donate help to one that is distressed? I mean, we're leaving here. We don't have that in front of us. But I'm curious.
Ken Brown 47:05
That's pretty much what they're saying though. Yeah, that's pretty much what they're saying, at least in this animal model that interesting. So yeah, so this is where nitric oxide can help the neuron that it's in, in the neurons that it's nearby. So because the two receptors are nearby, that's how they actually do this. And then this is the leap for the indirect erectile dysfunction. This kind of surprised me also, they actually act on the so this is we're talking about the endocannabinoid system, cb one receptors and act on the gonadotropin releasing hormone. So the endocannabinoid system can help with both the neuro component of erectile dysfunction as well as the endothelial component. So by releasing gonadotropin releasing a by stimulating gonadotropin releasing hormone that results in an increased testosterone.
Eric Rieger 47:57
That's fantastic
Ken Brown 47:58
or estrogen because it's again, a trouble releasing Yeah, everything's in balance. Everything is not black and white is the yin and yang of the body and you need enough of everything. That's the beauty of the endocannabinoid system. It's our great balancer. Like you said it was the it's the traffic cop that says more or less
Eric Rieger 48:15
Yeah, as fans. Fascinating I've never heard this stuff.
Ken Brown 48:20
It's I was pretty shot. This is this is what's fun about doing this podcast is that you pose a question and then I'm like, dang it. I'm definitely not staying up because sleep is super important. If you don't sleep, you screw it up. But I will wake up early and go, Well, I'm not gonna work out today, I'm going to go down these rabbit holes. All right. And so oh my gosh, there's so much more research out there that we can't even get into today. But like, like this title of this article that was published recently, cannabis dial induces on top of G to protect neuro neural cells from mitochondrial dysfunction by up regulating cert one to inhibit NF Kappa beta and notch pathways. That's the title. So we've talked about all these things, and it sounds super complex, and nobody would probably ever read this, but it's actually a really good read because what they showed is that CBD protects neurons by turning on the cert one pathway, which we talked about last episode, causing a toughie G, which is programmed cell death in old and sick cells, while down regulating inflammation through the NF Kappa beta pathway. Sounds freakley familiar to how polyphenols do it.
Eric Rieger 49:34
Yeah, it really does. I mean, and you can throw in there the cuz I think that last week, we labeled NF Kappa beta as the black hat cowboy. Oh, yeah. And then we said that the white hat cowboy would be a nerf to NRF two. And so it, it seems to me like these are simply complements that we are uncovering that could Be a far more natural way for your body to determine. Look, just give me the tools for the tool chest. I'll figure out what things go
Ken Brown 50:08
100% another article I gotta read this title because these scientists need always in the titles
Eric Rieger 50:17
that
Ken Brown 50:18
they need a marketing agent. Let's get this know that that breathe through your bot is all over the news.
Eric Rieger 50:27
Yeah, that's a click. That's a clickbait clickbait
Ken Brown 50:29
and it's way more than that these guys put a title that says CBG CBD Delta nine THC CBN CB g a CB, d A and delta nine t. h ca as antioxidant agents, and they're in intervention abilities in antioxidant action.
Eric Rieger 50:48
It's important stuff and no one's gonna read that. Bob, do
Ken Brown 50:51
you want all that in there? Yeah, I want it all. We're all out of seas. Yeah, we're all out of seeds. Alright, so the title is too much. But basically what they presented was that they reported the antioxidant activity of CBG, CBD and all those other ones. And they present a data to prove that all the examine cannabinoids named exhibit potent anti oxidant activity in their ability to scavenge to scavenge free radicals to prevent the oxidative process. So very last episode, we're talking about how polyphenols are potent antioxidants. nobody's really discussing how CBD and THC and CBG are potent antioxidants. But they the whole study is how they actually do it, how they scavenge free radicals.
Eric Rieger 51:44
And it's brilliant, honestly. And it just, it just lends more credence to why it's important to have a healthy ECS. I mean, I know that those are all exogamous that you read off, I think for the most part, but they from what I understand that ECS to date, they really serve complement to your Endocannabinoid. So exactly
Ken Brown 52:03
an exhaust meaning these are the ones that we take in through our diet, or through smoking or whatever if, if it's that, but these are the ones that we ingest that actually do that.
Eric Rieger 52:13
Yeah. Fascinating.
Ken Brown 52:14
It's totally fascinating. And then oh, my gosh, one last one, because this one blew my mind, as I'm sitting there looking at these different articles, and you're reading through them. And it's the sad part is, as we're preparing for this, there's only so much we can actually talk about right here. But like, I want to call people I'm reading I'm like, Are you kidding me? This is nuts. Like I want to call the guy that made that title and be like, here's the deal. Next time you do a paper, let me write the title for you. And it'll be clickbait all the way his scientific colleagues will just be like, what kind of title is that? And it's just like, CBD causes you know, decreased baldness and it's like, but that's not really what it's about. It's about the telomeres and it's about you know, the the flu avian cells and he's like, Yeah, but and this guy said baldness, and I just want to Pulitzer. Yeah.
Eric Rieger 53:03
I mean, that's really what it comes down to. You've got to get it language that someone's gonna read 100
Ken Brown 53:07
Exactly. Alright, so we did a whole episode on Brock elite. We did. So love broccoli. It's on the KVM the health store. And broccoli is the really world's only stable sulfur fame product. We did this with David Roberts and dr. john Gill de wickedly smart people, both of them. That's Episode 44. highly suggest that you go take a look at that. Because of that knowledge that we learned on that show. I was I came across an interview quite a while ago actually with a doctor Jed Fahy who, what's her name, Rhonda Patrick. And he was discussing how his research was showing that a there was some similarities between a isocyanate called more engine is similar to sulforaphane not quite but similar. And his reasoning for this is that it's actually it's a tree that's very abundant in subtropical regions. And they should be looking at this for adding it to diets of certain things. Then remembering that I came across this article, which led me to start looking at various things. And this thing popped up anti inflammatory and antioxidant effects of CBD and more engine and lipid polysaccharides stimulated macrophages. So lipid polysaccharide is a protein on the outer. It makes up the outer shell of a bacteria. It's what our bodies react to. And it's also what causes inflammation. So what they did is they looked at how do macrophages, part of our innate immune system respond to stimulation when they're exposed to these lipid polysaccharides? In other words, when you feed a macrophage a piece of bacteria, what does it do? And they wanted to see how it reacts to pro inflammatory markers like TNF alpha interleukin. Sex etc. And they wanted to know how exposing the macrophages to CBD in one arm Morrigan in one arm, and then what happens if you put both of them together and see what happens. So remember that CBD has already been shown to have anti inflammatory anxiolytic anti cancer capabilities. More ringan is under this class of glucosinolates, like sulforaphane, and these molecules, these molecules are potent anti inflammatory regulators as well, in this case, it's called an isotherm cyanate meridian from the poly phenol Moringa. Okay, you see how it's all coming together here. Alright, so bottom line is the results are pretty cool. The pretreatment with either CBD or meridian resulted in significant decrease in anti inflammatory and antioxidant effects from CBD and more ringan separately, with decreases in TNF alpha, interleukin six and all the other inflammatory cytokines that we talked about. But when combined, they showed exponential decrease in inflammatory markers, while increasing NRF to white hat and good cytokines like interleukin 10. So the combination also enhance the nuclear intracellular level of antioxidants. So it KVM D on our store, we had the biohack combo, which is atrantil, CBD and broccoli. They did a study on the biohack combo. Yeah, they did. This is crazy. And it doesn't mean that you're not gonna be able to mount an anti inflammatory response. It's that living in the Western world, you're exposed to chronic inflammation. Yeah, chronic inflammation leads to all these things. So lots of articles, lots of rabbit holes to wrap up. We started with COVID, causing a reptile dysfunction and affecting endothelial cells. Then we went to how do you protect that by increasing e nos and decreasing inflammation with polyphenols? And now we've wrapped up with how CBD can help with this. And ultimately, the combination of sulforaphane plus the polyphenols and atrantil plus CBD, according to these studies, likely protect both your brain and your endothelial cells, ultimately, protecting your penis.
Eric Rieger 57:22
Yeah, ultimately,
Ken Brown 57:23
that's a lot of science to say, don't let COVID take your penis. Yeah, it's
Eric Rieger 57:29
a lot of science to say exactly that we probably didn't even need to have you science to say just that.
Ken Brown 57:36
Probably that one statement alone. Be like a T shirt.
Eric Rieger 57:40
Yeah, we could have just said that, and probably called it a day. But now that, honestly, all of that is fascinating. It's informative. But it makes it makes sense. And even though it feels like that we go to like a local focal point to john Miller gets address interest. It just, it forced us to find out, like you said about nitric oxide and the different uses. And really, it's it's still universal. It's still universal throughout the entire human body. These are things that we need to be concerned about. And yes, we're talking about a penis today. But that process is happening there. It's the same thing that can be used to protect your brain, protect your heart, protect the rest of your organ systems, so that you can do what we were talking about the very beginning of the show, which is what kind of life would you like to live? How do you get there?
Ken Brown 58:28
So I guess if we were to talk about the mission of this podcast, I would say that, you know, we've always talked about healthspan. But now I've got this whole new process, you cannot truly develop as an individual if you're being hindered by day to day aspects that prevent you from leading a normal life. Right? So it's really hard to say you should meditate when you don't have food on the table. Yeah. It's really hard to say you should go exercise when you have heart disease, and you can't, you can't exercise. I mean, there's all these aspects. So I guess the goal of the gut check project is to improve the health span.
Eric Rieger 59:13
Now how 100% I mean, yeah, it's You're right. I like those examples telling, telling a homeless person to take in more fruits and vegetables. That's exactly a weird thing to
Ken Brown 59:24
Yes, they need those but there are other pressing needs so that they'll need to address so that they can tell you a parent that was two jobs to the weekend that they can't be home and they don't have food to give their kids to make sure that their kids don't eat cheap food. That's whatever it it. Just it doesn't happen that way now, and if we can, if we can do something, something because
Eric Rieger 59:49
maybe maybe people who watch this show or share the show. It's not necessarily that we're talking only to you but if you share with someone else And you are on your pathway to becoming healthier so that you're more vibrant than maybe that's kind of where it starts. I'm talking about myself too. I mean, I need to be healthy so that I can help take care of people that I'll take care of same for you. And same for anybody who's watching or listening. So you can't help somebody if you can't help yourself.
Ken Brown 1:00:18
Yeah. And this is a good example that if you follow the show, or if you have a question, the questions turn into. In my mind, all of this is new to me. If it's not new to you, then you're way ahead of the game. As a guest, right now,
Eric Rieger 1:00:37
yeah, yesterday.
Ken Brown 1:00:39
But if this is new to you, as well, then please like share, we will always do the disclaimer that everything I've talked about today I am a doctor Eric is a certified crna. But we are not giving medical advice, while all we're doing is trying to show that there is some science behind all of this. And we are passionate about trying to make people healthier, ultimately, not just physically healthy. We're not talking about looking good. We want you to feel good. And we want you to be mentally healthy as well, because all of it is tied in together. And that's what we keep doing almost every single time is we're like wow, every time we want to separate. We want to do a three part episode on the penis, it ends up being the body
Eric Rieger 1:01:23
100% brain, we want you to stay healthy, mostly so that you can stay around long enough to ventilate through your anus. So we're
Ken Brown 1:01:31
gonna get to that one. I want to make fun of it. I'm just gonna Heckle you the whole time. You have to show me the real science about why it's valid.
Eric Rieger 1:01:40
Okay, that sounds great. I hope it's in there. But no, I'm excited that they're gonna be a good episode.
Ken Brown 1:01:45
So
Eric Rieger 1:01:46
that's Episode 56. Thank you all so much for hanging with us from 54 to 56 on this particular topic, it's very interesting. Hopefully, it's helpful. We've gotten not surprisingly, lots of feedback on anything discussing erectile dysfunction. Now I know why Pfizer cares so much about war. So anyway, thank you all for writing in and we'll see you Episode 57. I don't think it'll be a continuation
Ken Brown 1:02:11
conspiracy theory. Pfizer also came out with the first vaccine knowing that COVID can cause erectile dysfunction is the vaccine only partially is not where we need to buy. Bye, everybody.
Eric Rieger 0:00
Hello gut check project fans and KBMD Health family, I hope that you are having a great day today to host Eric Rieger soon to be joined by my other host, Dr. Kenneth Brown, and Ken Brown KB MD, he's the reason that we get to gut check project. So let's talk a little bit about this episode that's going to follow these announcements. And it's episode number 55. It's continuation of Episode Number 54, where we talked about men's health, specifically how inflammation from various diseases and, and viruses, for instance, can cause erectile dysfunction, and what can be done about it, maybe to recognize it. But what 55 is going to talk about specifically, is the continuation of what we talked about in 5474, we, we kind of delved a little into, you know why inflammation can cause such a problem when two people are trying to be intimate. And now in 55, we're going to talk about what actionable items you can take to hopefully avoid these situations. And if you're experiencing them, maybe you can try this and get over it instead of just always having to turn to pharmaceutical. So anyhow, of course, this is an informative podcast, so we are not your direct healthcare providers, but
just definitely want to share the information. So without wasting any more time, let's get into our sponsors, of course are trying to talk to kids browns, baby, and artron deal is where you're going to get your daily polyphenols, we talk a lot about polyphenols and for good reason. It's what the bacteria in your microbiome in your gut, what they not only wants what they need, in order to provide the post biotic materials and compounds that your body uses every single day to stave off inflammation to stave off disease to give you more energy to protect your telomeres. Why because that can actually be an anti aging mechanism. So regardless, polyphenols are what your body needs. artron teal just happens to be chock full of some of the most stable polyphenols known to man instability matters, because that's how the bacteria is going to get them to break them down and give you what your body wants. So are trying to go to love my tummy.com that's love my tummy.com slash KB MD. Pick up your daily polyphenols today. And of course, unrefined bakery, we've talked about it. And for good reason because unrefined bakery has incredible food and it does not matter if you need to avoid bread because you are a gluten free eater or you're a keto eater or you happen to be paleo. They specialize in those types of diets. And they make the right kinds of breads, desserts, treats, packs, snack mix, all of the things that possibly you thought you couldn't have any more why you adhered to a specific diet, unrefined bakery has unlocked industry and they shipped to all the lower 48 you can go to unrefined bakery.com that's unrefined bakery.com and use code gut check at checkout, save 20% off of your entire first order. Like I said, it's just great food doesn't matter if it's keto, paleo etc. They've got all of the different diet specialties spelled out on there, but they will deliver or shipped to your house. And, you know, check them out unrefined bakery.com delicious food, use code gut check at checkout save 20% Last but not least KB MD health name for Ken brown MD. And this has not only the store that features the three products that Ken has absolutely no problem standing behind Brock elite as well as adriaan deal in KB and D CBD. But you can leave us a message you can inquire a little bit more we're trying to build up a little bit of the content that we have on there but a lot of that's going to come from what it is that you want. So shoot us some more messages I know the way we produce the podcast but we're looking to see if we can't expand on some of that. So go to KB MD health comm check out the store as well as the archived podcasts and if you have any questions or just a comment to say shoot us an email from the button on there and we will do all we can to get back to you as soon as we can. So without wasting any more time go let's go to what I mean go to I'm taking us there we're gonna go to Episode 55 right now on the go jek project
Hello gut check project fans and KBMD health family. It is great
And I'm here with my awesome co host, Dr. Ken Brown, what's going on, man?
Ken Brown 5:04
We got Episode 55, which is part two of the prior episode that we did regarding Men's Health and some erectile dysfunction stuff. And it was really good timing because we got some pretty cool research to go over today, and it's all appropriate. So sit back, learn a little bit about how to protect your penis naturally,
Eric Rieger 5:27
naturally. And so that's what Episode 55 is going to be about a continuation of Episode Number 54. But before we get into that, I think that we, we need to touch on some things that I know that you've been doing with someone who was actually on show.
Ken Brown 5:43
Alright, so we always do a little personal stuff. Yeah. So what's been going on in my life? I got my stem cells. So shout out to Dr. Wade McKenna and his team, which by the way, his staff is awesome. Yeah, they are. They are absolutely amazing. So it's the first time I've ever been sedated. And so I've had two colonoscopies three and das cuppies, two of which I did on myself, which was, which was a gag fest. And I've always been the owl that we put people you put people to sleep right all the time. First time I've ever received propofol. Wow, it was amazing. It was like the coolest thing ever. It's like I just like suddenly two hours labs and Dr. Jerry Lewis shout out to him, it's a way brought him in and they were able to actually float a catheter into my foraminal opening, and I got pictures of this. And injected stem cells after doing a bone marrow harvest on me. I don't remember any of it, no pain. And quite honestly, I'm feeling really good. And it's only the beginning because I'm doing IV infusions now.
Eric Rieger 6:47
So the crazy thing is, is working with you and st talking everyday like we do at work, etc. I saw when you had true deficit, like you really could not extend your right arm, the the tricep really was not responsive. Literally, Brown is standing while we were scoping, you were kind of positioning yourself to work the scope differently than you just normally would, because you'd lost basically faculty in your
Ken Brown 7:14
yard. So what happened is, is that with the disc bulge, it actually compressed the nerve. I've got foraminal which is where the nerve comes out. I've got foraminal stenosis, and I was the swelling that took place from the disc bulge was compressing the nerve, and I didn't have all my usual strength and one of them being these six, seven when I saw Wade the first time Yeah, he was like all here's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, you're not gonna have tricep strength, you're gonna lose your medial pec Rouse, which is exactly right. And he goes, that happened to me years ago, and this is what I did. And Dude, that guy is such a stud. He had a back thing where he did his own bone marrow harvest taught his colleague, because he's the only guy that has done it this much said, this is exactly how you're gonna do it. And did his own bone marrow harvest, made his own stem cells and then had him injected in him? And I didn't want to say that was like 10 years ago or 11 years ago that question, yeah, you know, and he's, he's done well, so if you're somebody that has knee injuries, shoulder, for sure. Knee, low back shoulder, they do this all the time. Neck for me looks like it's going to be a really good success. I'm no pain right now. And I'm gaining function back. It's really it's a it's a humbling experience to go to the gym. Yeah. And be proud that you like can you know, we're usually dumbbells would be? It's this. It's my ego getting in the way. But normally, it would be like, Yeah, I did you know, 110 and each each arm dumbbell incline dumbbells now, I'm just like, sweet. I got 20.
Eric Rieger 8:48
Yeah. In your left hand. And five in your right. Yeah, exactly.
Ken Brown 8:51
Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, so shout out to him. So if anybody has any issues, please. In fact, you You did a revisit of the episode. I did. Yeah. So you did a Facebook post and Instagram pose,
Eric Rieger 9:04
we tried something new. So if we have, we have a different studio now. And honestly, the audience has grown significantly over the last two and a half years. So some of the episodes that we had the old studio there, we didn't really have the network. We didn't have Paul helping us push out things more on the internet. We were more kind of internet radio based back then which we had a great audience there. But now we've kind of got a new or a lot of new viewers. So what we're going to try to do is do some revisits when we can or when this last week, we're both super busy and just couldn't film an episode. So check out the revisit number one, which actually features Dr. Wade McKenna. And we were prompted to do that really, because of what you've been doing.
Ken Brown 9:46
Yeah, absolutely. And if you want to learn a little bit more about stem cells, there's number one look at that episode, because, wow, I did not realize that this has been Wade's background his entire career. And you can look at some TED Talks. With some German doctors because the rules are a little bit more lacks over there. So they've been, they've been researching stem cells a lot longer than we have. It's incredible. I think it's going to be how we're going to treat disease in the future for sure.
Eric Rieger 10:12
100% so I've known Wade for almost two decades. And when when I was covering for him in the O r, it was nothing for him to have a research project going on having someone in the room simply taking samples from the patient that would be spun down and he did all kinds of I mean, he's one of the first doctors to utilize PRP. I mean, it goes back a really, really long time
Ken Brown 10:33
ago. Yeah. For anybody that's wondering, anybody that's worried about anesthesia, I will now get my first hand take on it. I gave my first hand take on what it feels like to get a colonoscopy. I'm so angry at myself, but I believe my crna his name was Corey, Troy. Troy
Eric Rieger 10:49
now try is Troy's. Wade's PA, it's probably Cory. Cory it's
Ken Brown 10:55
probably Cory. Anyways, great guy. Great crna knew you because you guys trained together at some point he trained he trained under you. He told me, he goes, here's what's gonna happen, we're gonna they they got the IV in, because we're gonna go ahead and lay down the gurney here. We're going to harvest the bone where you're going to go to sleep and then we're going to wake you up. You're going to hop over on this floor, oh table go facedown. Then we're going to go ahead, the doctors will come in, they will then float the catheter get in there. Jerry Lewis is going to assist Dr. McKenna. Once they get in the right position, though, inject it, then we will stop the anesthetic and roll your over your wake up and you're going to you're going to do great. I said, awesome. So all of a sudden, I remember being Chuck a little bit now. I'm like, Okay, so we're gonna do that. We just did the bone marrow. Awesome. And I tried to go, where's the flow table? They're like, you're all done. Like, you're all done. I looked up. I'm like, it's been two hours. Holy cow. And I was like, euphoric and felt great. And sort of, whoa, I gotta do this more often. You're not more stem cells anymore.
Eric Rieger 12:04
Just Just relax. Just relaxing
Ken Brown 12:06
anesthesia. Yeah, exactly. Personally, what's going on with you?
Eric Rieger 12:13
We are still remodeling the house. It's interesting to not be in our normal home and having to go back and watch them kind of do demo, etc. But gates just came home from college yesterday. So it's very, very exciting Mac core, still swinging at basketball, and they just finished a big tournament down in San Antonio. They want three or four to get to the championship. So he did great and Murray's social media companies
Ken Brown 12:38
really taken off. That's awesome. As far as my household, Karla won her tournament last weekend, so shout out to Carlos super proud of you did great. The Lucas his last tournament, Costa Rica hurt his heel. And just to be just because I'm a worrywart. I ended up taking them to direct orthopedic care, which actually was kind of impressive. They got us in right away, and they x rayed him and did all this he were in a boot for a week. And now his foots better. Fortunately, nothing was broken. And then same thing with you remodeling. So loida spending a lot of time with my wife loida, looking at white paint. And she keeps asking me, which white should we use? For what room where it's going to go? Yes, what shade of white and honestly, it's all the same to me. I honestly think I'm white colorblind. I clearly see just white. Well, isn't that what it is? Well, not loida. She sees nuances kind of like, kind of like a dragon fly would see like an ultraviolet light or something. I think she sees the nuance of weird whites that I don't get. So I'm just nodding. And I'll just be like that one. And she's like, Are you kidding? That has hints of gray and Oh, honey, that
Eric Rieger 13:53
one is the one.
Ken Brown 13:55
That is not what I want. Right? That we're gonna Yeah. So no,
Eric Rieger 14:00
I understand. I just, I agreed with Marie, that she should pick out all things aesthetic. And she said, Well, you don't want to help. And I said, why would I want to do that? I don't know what we're looking at. And so that's pretty much
Ken Brown 14:15
part of the thing I've been doing for my neck is I've been going to North Dallas Spine Center, where I've been getting traction on my neck. And so I lay down in one of those traction machines where they hold my neck table. Yeah. And they have a TV above me and they keep it on HGTV. And it dawned on me that if you've got nothing going on, HGTV will give you a home renovation. So pretty sure that my daughter Carla and loida can have their own HGTV Home renovation show because that's what they do. Can like you talked about Marie, it's like this tile, that tile looked at this look at this, and it's just like, Oh, this is gonna accent this and it is dizzying. Oh,
Eric Rieger 14:55
it's a specialty and it's a specialty that I have no special skill and
Ken Brown 14:58
no at all. None of All so well that's awesome. So you get it? Yeah. All right. Oh my gosh, I totally forgot about this. I am so pumped. Oh, yeah, that is not so pumped. An article recently came out. You know, like when you're always posting Jeff's have like a guy falling off a skateboard, like a bunch of times, like screwing up. And you're like, isn't this guy awesome? And then I'll post under that. No, Eric, he's not awesome. He really needs lessons in a helmet. And then you'll respond with like, lol. And I just look at that and go. Is he saying lol? Because he now gets that the guy's bad? Or is he saying lol? No, it just adds to a lot of confusion. Well, what does lol mean? Well, it's it's laugh out loud. And it just but you know how you always do that all the time. And I'm always doing that
Eric Rieger 16:00
I know how I always walk into these scenarios that I learned about myself.
Ken Brown 16:06
Anyways, fortunately, shout out to university Central Florida, because we don't got to worry about these confusing social media exchanges that you and I have. Yeah, frequently, all of the time, all of them. So a study was just published may 8, in the Journal of entropy, where University of Central Florida has developed thank goodness, okay, to save our podcast relationship, a newly developed artificial intelligence algorithm that can accurately detect sarcasm in comments written on social media. Yeah,
Eric Rieger 16:44
I want to challenge it now. The
Ken Brown 16:47
dough Miami man or Florida man, I should I shouldn't just key in on Miami right there. Alright, so computer science, researchers at the University of Central Florida have developed a sarcasm detector.
Eric Rieger 16:59
How can that even work?
Ken Brown 17:01
So social media has become a very dominant form of communication for not only people but as it turns out, businesses, companies are always trying to sell products and services. And somebody is always assigned to respond to the comments that people do properly understanding and responding to the call to the customer feedback on social media platforms is critical for success. airgo somebody needs to invent something to help those people understand that your customer is being sarcastic. Not
Eric Rieger 17:31
I don't, I don't know. I mean, I hope that they make a lot of money moving this app out. But who cares? But it's well
Ken Brown 17:37
anyway, so I got really into it because of our exchanges on social media, as I've said multiple times. That's where something called sentiment analysis comes in. This University of Central Florida team developed a technique that accurately detects sarcasm, and social media texts. Effectively, the team taught the computer model to find patterns that often indicate sarcasm, and combine that with teaching the program to correctly pick out cue words in a sentence, that were more likely to indicate sarcasm, they taught the model to do this by feeding it large data sets, then checked its accuracy. And I believe that our exchanges were probably fundamental to their research.
Eric Rieger 18:21
Yeah. Actually, after hearing that, I think I think this is actually really, really important.
Ken Brown 18:28
So I think it's super important also, and I was so interested in this, that I actually contacted the scientists themselves and wanted to speak with them. And I contacted another sarcasm expert. Oh, yeah, yeah, to get another take on the whole field. And so so your wife, Marie commented that sarcasm isn't always easy to identify in conversation.
Eric Rieger 18:49
That's weird that she would say that, because I'm never sarcastic at
Ken Brown 18:52
home. And then the scientists are quoted as so you can imagine. It's pretty challenging for a computer program to do it and do it well. So my own research on this has determined that sarcasm is a difficult thing. And doing it on letting your computer decided is hard.
Eric Rieger 19:12
Yeah, again, I just want to reiterate how important I think this is yes,
Ken Brown 19:17
sarcasm has been a major hurdle since sarcasm relies heavily on vocal tones, facial expression, and gestures that cannot be represented in text. It's important science super important.
Eric Rieger 19:31
This this makes sense to me.
Ken Brown 19:34
In a quote, detecting sarcasm in textual communication is not a trivial task. Dr. akula is quoted or maybe it was Marie, I don't remember which expert was quoting. Now she's often given many lectures on sarcasm, I'm sure that
Eric Rieger 19:52
it could go either way.
Ken Brown 19:53
That's why I went to her and asked her I wanted to interview her. So kudos to University of Central Florida,
Eric Rieger 19:58
and we're getting ready to Get on to this awesome.
Unknown Speaker 20:03
Very important science super important.
Eric Rieger 20:06
Incredibly. That is the weirdest thing that we've ever done. I
Ken Brown 20:12
saw that article and I was like, Oh my gosh, real scientists are spending a lot of time trying to pick out sarcasm and I'm like, wow,
Eric Rieger 20:21
yeah, it sucks that they don't get it.
Ken Brown 20:27
Alright, enough of that that was but it's it's real. You can look it up. It's to me, it's to me. It's just hilarious. That's why we have emojis, you know, the little gestures that people do. Alright, so let's just jump into this episode, Episode 55. To more important, more important topics, health. So remember that last episode was all about how I was seeing more patients, post COVID young patients otherwise healthy as I would start discussing things with them, they would ask me very honestly have Is there any relation to COVID and having erectile dysfunction, because after I've had COVID, I've been having issues. So we started looking into that. And that's what that episode was actually about where we covered how there is this plausible reason for this and how certain studies are showing that they're aggregating some data where people post COVID the long haulers are actually having issues with erectile dysfunction. That was last episode. Check this out. This was just published two days ago.
Eric Rieger 21:32
Oh, wow. So definitely new information since our last episode.
Ken Brown 21:35
Definitely new information. And this is why I said instead of you know, go Florida man go Miami man because out of the University of Miami to Florida studies, one episode out of the University of Miami researchers report COVID-19 found in penile tissue could contribute to erectile dysfunction, really.
Eric Rieger 21:53
So we're like, corpus callosum? What are we talking?
Ken Brown 21:58
Great question. So basically, it's a very small case series, but it is pretty interesting. a urologist out of the University of Miami published this, that COVID 19, or SARS cub to let's say it that way, it can present in the penis tissue long after men recover from the virus. So the widespread blood vessel dysfunction, or endothelial dysfunction, which is what our last episode was all about, right? And that results from COVID-19 infection can contribute to erectile dysfunction. According to this study that was just published in the world Journal of men's health. What this urologist did is he was implanting penile implants, okay, in patients with refractory erectile dysfunction. He had a few patients that were post COVID. And they develop this afterwards. So his idea was that the SARS cov to virus can affect the endothelial and create inflammation, which then can result in erectile dysfunction. What's crazy about this is that we know that you the endothelial lining is the lining of blood vessels, and outlines origins as well. So it can be anywhere in the body. What is really crazy about this is that he took these people that had this prior history COVID and then he took a subset of people that did not but we're coming into the same issues, right? So severe diabetic or somebody that that is having reptile dysfunction, that is, it's devastating enough that you're going to go have surgery for it and have an implant on. So it said this isn't like a big deal. This is. I mean, it's one of those things that I guess, you know, a lot of pharmaceutical money's made on it. A lot of you know, snickering is done with it. But the reality is if you get an infection, and then this affects that it affects your relationships, it affects your mood and all this. What was fascinating is that he did biopsies of the corpus cavernosum cavernosum sorry, yeah, the of the corpus cavernosum. And this is nuts that he sent it off to a research facility where they did electron microscopy on it, and they found a bite virus sitting in the corpus cavernosum consistent with it being SARS cov two hanging out in the corpus cavernosum in patients that had recovered eight months before from COVID-19 and had antibodies,
Eric Rieger 24:27
so it hadn't really gone anywhere. It was basically sitting there dormant that's causing long term infection and problems
Ken Brown 24:32
we don't know that part it this is possibly possibly I should say that Yeah, possibly. And I guess you know, like one of my questions I got a lot of questions for that guy is are you sure that SARS cov two shirts on another virus? Are you sure it's not whatever is your co infection with all these other things, but that is crazy, because that means you clear the virus and you got SARS cov two hanging out in your penis. Well, it's
Eric Rieger 24:56
let's go the other way. He just at least identified that It's possible that there was a virus that happened to look like SARS. But inevitably, it's inflammation that is causing the reptile dysfunction. He thinks he believes that's the connection. So it in essence, it doesn't just have to be SARS, cov. Two, it really could be, how are you going to protect yourself from long term inflammation? Right?
Ken Brown 25:23
You're exactly right. And that's what we're going to talk about today. Okay, this is exactly what we're going to talk about today. Because on so many episodes we discussed, almost, it seems like somehow we get into the fact that inflammation, right chronic inflammation, acute inflammation, it's good chronic inflammation band can create all different kinds of problems. So today, we're going to talk about how to protect your penis naturally. Okay. And I have not heard this anywhere. And so to me, it's a very, very fascinating article about how we're going to do this naturally and using Mother Nature's secret weapon. So let's just recap really quickly the physiology of from the last episode of erectile dysfunction. So if you remember, your brain somehow becomes aroused in any one of the centers, it becomes aroused. And then it releases acetylcholine, where acetylcholine leads to the conversion of arginine to nitric oxide via something that we're going to talk about nitric oxide synthase. The nitric oxide causes vezo dilation of the blood vessels in the corpus cavernosum, which are the spongy tissue in the penis, which then allows for an erection. Ultimately, when you don't need the erection anymore, another enzyme called PD five breaks down the nitric oxide and you go back to your normal state, the etiology of of erectile dysfunction can be psychogenic neurogenic, hormonal, or vasculogenic. And so when you look at all that, keep in mind that almost all of those have an underlying common theme. And that is chronic inflammation,
Eric Rieger 27:09
right? And all of those have to be working for it to work to work.
Ken Brown 27:12
Exactly, exactly. So that's that's what we're gonna look at. So if you have any, if I suggest everybody go look at the last episode, because we went into significant detail about this. And and and we were theorizing almost that getting COVID can do this. And now we just have an article that just came out two days ago, actually showing on biopsy that it's that it, it's not only plausible, but it's probably likely Wow, man, it is really, really wild. I know it's not. So this got me really thinking. After seeing this article, I started thinking about the whole aspect of how do we, after the last podcast if this is going to be a more common theme for so many people or you know, have been infected? Then what can we do from a natural perspective. And today I want to talk about the role of dietary polyphenols in the management of erectile dysfunction. In fact, a very brilliant article was published in 2017, out of a research group out of Africa, where they specifically looked at that, and what they were really looking at is the mechanism of action. And these guys go into great detail about erectile dysfunction, noting how many things can cause it, but also that one of the main underlying themes was inflammation at its root. Okay, so when I get articles, so Angie, and I exchange articles all the time, and when I get articles, I'll briefly read through the abstract. And when somebody says that in the abstract, I'm like, this, this group is speaking our language, right? So what that's what we're going to talk about today is specifically the inflammatory process, and how it leads to this Xay, we're specifically looking at reactive oxygen species, meaning the underlying cause of inflammation is free radicals that can be caused by so many different things. So it doesn't matter if it's arterial, it doesn't matter if it's the hormonal bottom line is if you have inflammation in tissue, how does that cause it? And how can how can it be prevented? Am I making sense?
Eric Rieger 29:28
Yeah, you're making sense essentially, what you're saying his long term inflammation has this byproduct called reacted or I'm sorry, reactive oxygenation species? Is there something that we can do to help clean up that mess so that we can have a better chance of achieving things where inflammation is getting in the way?
Ken Brown 29:43
Absolutely. So when you think about this when you because we always hear about antioxidants? And and people talking about, oh, take this antioxidant, it's a superfood, it's whatever. Yeah, what does that really mean? Well, specifically, inflammation from reactive oxygen species leads to increased production of free wrap. radicals, which ultimately leads to lipid peroxidation, meaning breaking down fat that kicks off more inflammation, protein oxidation, meaning breaking down protein, which kicks off more inflammation, DNA oxidation, which means you actually break down your DNA. And so that's the epi genetic component of some of this stuff. And then decreased synthesis of nitric oxide, and upregulation, of pro inflammatory cytokines.
Eric Rieger 30:32
And that actually is a double whammy. So if you are stopping and just correct me if I'm wrong, but if if you are stopping the production of nitric oxide, you're now decreasing blood flow. And by decreasing blood flow, you're actually allowing whatever happens to be in that area to linger longer. And if you are increasing cytokine release in that area. Now, not only are there pro inflammatory markers now in the area that we don't want them, it's going to take longer for them to be flushed out because there's just simply not enough blood flow.
Ken Brown 31:05
Did you speak with the researchers?
Eric Rieger 31:07
I didn't, because that's
Ken Brown 31:09
spot on. Okay, well, with a little more detail, but it's almost like you had a phone call with them.
Eric Rieger 31:16
After we talked about the sarcasm meter.
Ken Brown 31:23
All right. So you're exactly right. But what's really cool is the actual mechanism and how these polyphenols can help in this process at different stages. So reactive oxygen species cause oxidative stress, because you had an imbalance between the pro oxidants and the antioxidants in a cellular system. So once you tip that damage to the DNA, proteins and lipids and proteins, like I just talked about results in a massive increase in inflammatory cytokines, right? Yes, like you were saying. So in theory, anti oxidants could help protect the endothelium the lining of the corporate cap of the corpus cavernosum by shifting that inflammatory cascade someplace else, the most potent natural anti oxidants are in the form of poly phenol. So this study really reviews the dietary polyphenols and the role they play in the management of erectile dysfunction. From an inflammation perspective.
Eric Rieger 32:33
It's it's fascinating. And then when our most of our viewers know that if you're addressing inflammation with polyphenols, you're not just addressing it for Ed, you're actually going to be addressing it systemically. This is what your body needs to balance everything out.
Ken Brown 32:47
I'm blown away that the more that we do this podcast, the more that I keep uncovering research that has existed, this is 2017 never even heard about this and like holy cow. And it was so good. It's like when we had Charlene on with the celiac stuff correct? Holy cow. Really quick, can you just explain in case somebody is turning tuning in for the first time what a poly phenol is
Eric Rieger 33:07
poly phenol, so the easiest way to find them are knowing that they are the compounds that you find naturally in fruits and vegetables, which are responsible for the colorful fruit, or I'm sorry, the colorful visualization visualizations that you see in you know, green broccoli, or red apples, etc. But what they do when you consume them is they are really what your gut bacteria want for food. They've got specific functions by the time that they get there they arrived, your bacteria know exactly what to do with them. And then they can turn into beneficial products after they're consumed so that you can protect yourself from inflammation, you can give yourself a better chance of anti aging, the bio products of poly phenol, metabolism, I guess you could call it and your colon really pay long term dividends. It's the reason why we've always been coached to drink I'm sorry to drink to eat fruits and vegetables daily. And they're they're the workhorse inside fruit vegetables.
Ken Brown 34:09
Exactly. So what you're going to see in the future, I'll say in the future of research, followed by the future of the market, is that there's a shift going from the probiotics that we're now learning are probably not as quite beneficial as initially touted, and there's lots of marketing behind it. And most research or a lot of researchers are moving away from probiotics to studying these poly phenolic molecules. And you summed it up perfectly, and that's awesome. It's like when I hear you, I'm just like, man, he's so smart. Why would he comment such a silly thing about that skateboarder?
Eric Rieger 34:47
I don't know. I don't know why did that on that social media exchange that we never had.
Ken Brown 34:53
Alright, so what these researchers looked at initially, they said, well, we're gonna we're gonna pull a bunch of studies and And what they looked at was something that that is very interesting to me as well is that they realize that all the studies really involved large, stable polyphenols like pro anthocyanins
Unknown Speaker 35:13
interesting. I think we know a little bit about prime we know a little bit about that,
Ken Brown 35:17
as Eric mentioned, pro anthocyanins are the polyphenols, which are found in the fruits and vegetables with the most vibrant colors, the blueberries, berries and things like that. So that's what they were looking at with these studies, not so much that they were trying to select those. It's that what other people had published. So this study that I'm talking about is like a mini meta analysis. And what a meta analysis is, is when a research group will take data that exists small studies, they'll congregate it, and then they'll do a review and say, This is what the data shows when you put all the data together. Okay. So if you have a couple case series, then you put those together, and that's what so this is like a mini meta analysis, looking at several studies, not several, like many studies. For instance, prior studies have shown that poly females exert their action directly on the endothelial lining of blood vessels. One of the studies cited sums your whole message up where it goes all over the body. This is really true. One of the studies cited found that they radio labeled poly phenol metabolites. Okay, so and then just to break it down, that's what the that's the compound that would exist after the bacteria has taken up all the phenol and broken it down to what it knows is beneficial, right, exactly. So by radio labeling the large poly phenol once it gets broken down, then they can see wherever it goes. And the reason why I say that is because To their surprise, nothing was excreted in the urine. But they did find these polyphenol metabolites in the brain, heart, kidney, spleen, pancreas, prostate, uterus, ovary, Mary glands, testes, bladder, bone, skin, and highly concentrated in all endothelial linings.
Eric Rieger 37:09
So essentially, every organ in all of our blood vessels are highly dependent upon these metabolites.
Ken Brown 37:14
Yeah, and none are essentially none were being excreted through the urine. So as we sit there and talk about this, and we've talked about this, this is when these polyphenols, you take a large, stable poly phenol, right, like abbraccio proanthocyanidin. And if you have a diverse microbial base, your microbiome will break this down into beneficial metabolites that find their way everywhere.
Eric Rieger 37:38
Why if it weren't important, and if your body didn't want it, it would be doing all it could with the reason why you brought up urine is it would be doing all that it could to eliminate them, but it's not doing that.
Ken Brown 37:50
Well. It's not doing that because if it was, so I guess you could think about this, if it were absorbed correctly, you'd pee it out, right? Because all urine is is filtered blood, right? And if it's not absorbed at all, then what you would see is that radio label tracing in the total
Eric Rieger 38:09
Yeah, and still Yeah, yeah.
Ken Brown 38:11
So it's, it's pretty wild. So these authors want to know, well, okay, knowing that it's going to go everywhere. How would this correlate in erectile dysfunction? And more importantly, what are the mechanisms and how it actually does? Okay? So, knowing that these polyphenols can work directly on the endothelial lining, and that inflammation can cause erectile dysfunction. What studies exist to explain how these polyphenols can help directly with erectile dysfunction, so I admire these guys, it's a really thick articles. It was I had to read it like 700 times or something like that.
Eric Rieger 38:51
I think the sarcasm meter has alarmed us that 700 is probably inaccurate. Hold
Ken Brown 38:57
on, let me check the computer. Oh, you're right. The AI says that I was being sarcastic. That's awesome stretch. All right. So first, they referenced many different studies showing how polyphenols have been found to have a direct anti oxidant effect. So when people think about polyphenols, they always refer to it as being potent antioxidants, preventing this oxidative stress. But a more important role that they have determined is that there may be very beneficial indirect effects. And we've talked about these indirect effects on multiple episodes. Absolutely. And so one of these that they went into tremendous detail is a pathway called the n f Kappa beta. Nf Kappa beta. We talked about this on the immune episode. We talked about it when we had the when we had david on broccoli on Yeah, the sulfur fans we've this NF Kappa beta is the is the first domino that gets turned on. So it's almost like a puri trophic phenomenon where it sets off This huge cascade. So if you want to know more about that, and about the cascade, go to our episode on the immune system, because that is where I just drew it all outward shows how complex it is. But basically, to sum it up, it causes this release of inflammatory cytokines just blood turns it all on, polyphenols control his process by controlling the NF Kappa beta. Okay, so it doesn't let NF Kappa beta come in and just say let's throw a party, it's as well hold on, just calm down. It's what down regulates that pathway. In addition, and this is something I did not know, poly phenol is regulated regulate local enzymes that are pro inflammatory, like something called ionos, which is inducible nitric oxide synthase. And I just shout out to Angie, because she said if you're going to do an episode follow up, she sent me a full article. She's like, I've always been confused about this, because sometimes people refer to nitric oxide as being part of the inflammatory cascade. And I'm like, but it's always there. And she's like, this is a great article that summarizes it. As it turns out, there's eyeness, Enos, and US and US is neuro nitric oxide synthase. Wow. Okay. In US is endothelial nitric oxide synthase. I nos is inducible. Okay, so inducible is very important when you have an acute inflammatory response.
Eric Rieger 41:33
Yeah, it's, it's being induced to respond
Ken Brown 41:35
to being induced to respond, okay. But when you turn on certain chronic inflammatory issues, I nos, actually is an enzyme that converts nitric oxide into an inflammatory type molecule are really super cool. So anyways, polyphenols, block, the enzymes like that. And cyclo oxygenase two, or Cox two, right? Do you've ever seen any commercials, we just have commercial all the time about Cox two inhibitors, right. And so it blocks these two enzymes, which, to me is super, super fascinating, because I did not know that it did this on a local level as well. While it's doing this, it's increasing anti inflammation pathways like the and our F two pathway, which we've shown that that is the exact opposite. If you want to think about good guy, bad guy, yeah. And RF to, you know, the old cowboy movies wearing the white hat, the NF Kappa beta is the bad guy wearing the black hat. So you know who's good and who's bad. That's the old timey movies, I remember. That's how that I bring that that's really dating myself, but I'm bringing that up, because that's how I was taught during pathology, about how to read. You're looking at slides. If it's cancer, it basically has all this chromatin staining on top and I remember, my mentor, Dr. Brady would say, look, remember this, when you see a slide and if it's really dark on top, that's a black hat. That's a bad guy. Okay? And if it's darker in the middle, it's it's okay. You have a polyp. It's not cancer yet, but once it does that, so it's just always think about that. So basically, NF Kappa beta, bad NRF, two good pathways that do. One does a whole pathway a bad one does a whole pathway of good polyphenols decreased the bad pathway, and they increase the good pathway, nice and increases inflammatory cytokines or anti inflammatory cytokines like aisle 10. Okay, so that's part of what they get into, which is, which is really, really cool. And then instead of they go into tremendous detail about how this information or the rat of oxygen species creating this inflammatory process, actually, once the NF Kappa beta is turned on, it creates a pop ptosis in the endothelial lining. It's a big word. You
Eric Rieger 43:57
know what that is? It's when cells automatically die, or they are, it's like programmed cell death. They are to they're told that they're, they need to terminate,
Ken Brown 44:05
yeah. So when the NF Kappa beta gets turned on, it goes around, it tells healthy endothelial cells to kill themselves. Yeah, so to speak, which results in cell dying, which then leads to denudation, or sloughing of healthy blood vessel cells, which now needs to be replaced and repaired, which needs to be replaced and repaired, which sometimes that inflammatory process then leads to either scarring or plaque buildup or things like that. Yeah. So if you don't block the inflammatory cascade, it's just a vicious cycle. So this is going to lead to inflammation and fascinating what these guys showed in multiple studies is when you have this a pop, ptosis and denudation. The other thing that you're getting rid of His endothelial nitric oxide synthase,
Eric Rieger 45:04
which is going was going to form nitric oxide, right?
Ken Brown 45:08
Yeah. So its job is to form the good nitric oxide, which helps dilate blood vessels, you actually decrease the amount that's even available.
Eric Rieger 45:17
Now, it's unfortunate, that's not what you want in this particular instance.
Ken Brown 45:20
That's not what you want in this instance at all. And that is not sarcasm. That it No, that is true. That is the truth. Yeah. So anyways, that's enough. So basically, you have you decrease the nos or decrease the amount of nitric oxide that you have. If you stop and think about this, and you know that it goes all over your body. We need blood vessel dilation to keep our blood pressure down to increase the blood flow to our brain. You we have strokes because you blocked the blood flow, we have heart attacks, because you blocked the blood flow, you can have erectile dysfunction because the blood flow is decreased. Correct. So it's all making sense now. So without nitric oxide, you have increased adhesion. So now you have a lining of a blood vessel, which has lost its endothelial and smooth pathway. Yeah. And then now you've got these like ridges, yeah, so as platelets, and leukocytes is your white blood cells and your platelets come swimming through, they're like getting hit and they get, they get hung on, and they get stuck. And this actually causes a release of something called thromboxane. A to because they're like, oh man, we get we need to get out of here, we're stuck. thromboxane a two is a vasoconstrictor. Because if you think of plumbing, you have a big pipe like this, if you're getting decreased flow, if you constrict the pipe, you'll have higher pressure. And so the body's going oh my gosh, I got platelets that are stuck there. Let's release the strongbox saying, Yeah, that's exactly it. I read this, I was like, Oh, shit, yeah, all this stuff is going on with COVID. And people are having strokes, heart attacks, clotting. Now it makes total sense 100%, the inflammatory process is using up your nitric oxide synthase, so that you don't have as much nitric oxide, and then your body's producing a clotting mechanism to overcome that. Yeah. Nobody has discussed this that I've seen. I haven't seen Fauci or anybody talked about that I keep hitting my mic. Get all excited.
Eric Rieger 47:29
Now, I've not seen anyone talk about it from that approach whatsoever. Granted some of this information, some is new as it pertains to COVID and the pandemic, but that the actual process of this though, is not new. There. What they're doing is they're applying some relatively recent knowledge and saying, guys is the same process. We have to get out in front of this.
Ken Brown 47:50
Yeah, absolutely. And I just saw, we've talked about this, but I just saw that the guys that we work with it. And I'll try until they just filed for their they're finalizing their study where they're actually using polyphenols in hospitalized COVID-19 people. So it's public now nice. we've kind of been hiding it. I've been known. I've known about it for over a year now where that's is what they've been trying to do. But they they have their data done. And so now it's public knowledge that they have petitioned to be able to publish this. The data is out publicly yet, but they've at least shown that this is what they're doing. Right. And now it's making sense. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. So to recap, this oxidative stress leads to inflammation, which leads to decrease nitric oxide, and eventually vasoconstriction and clotting. So let's pause for a moment because I feel like I'm just throwing a ton of stuff out there. Well, there's
Eric Rieger 48:49
a lot of stuff. But ultimately, the takeaway through all of this is make certain that you get rest, and that you have polyphenols on board, because that's what your body needs. Really breaking down is why, why do we need this? Why does it work
Ken Brown 49:03
exactly as
Eric Rieger 49:04
you referenced earlier, and it's to bring our attention back? We've been told that we needed probiotics 25 years ago, but they didn't really know why that is, knew that we wanted, or not. Even more importantly, how, yeah, how does it work? We knew that we needed bacteria in the colon, but we didn't really know of taking probiotics was going to really give us the diversity in the colon that we needed to give us the byproducts of the metabolites that our body was wanting. And what we're seeing here with polyphenols is that we know not only why we need them, how they work, and where specifically with erectile dysfunction, we can see that it could actually correct some some damage.
Ken Brown 49:52
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, well said. Alright, so we're gonna keep moving on because that's not it. It's done. Actually just stop there. Oh, no, there's more. There's more. Do you remember when we had that patient? Who was he is a cancer researcher, okay. And he was talking about how the research he's been doing was looking at blocking arginase enzyme to help as a cancer treatment vaguely. So, essentially, there's and then I had another patient who's a cancer. He's an MD, PhD, and I asked him, I was like, Hey, I had a patient that said, he was Oh, yeah, we've known about that. So he's MD, PhD. So in the research world, they've known about this for a long time. Okay. Basically blocking the enzyme that breaks Argentine
Unknown Speaker 50:42
down, okay.
Ken Brown 50:44
helps your body heal itself.
Unknown Speaker 50:47
Wow.
Ken Brown 50:48
Okay. And I thought that was fascinating, because they're basically, they're basically developing a drug that which is more of like a dietary supplement to treat cancer. Fascinating.
Eric Rieger 50:59
Yeah, it is
Ken Brown 50:59
super cool. So lots of research is going on in the cancer world regarding arginase inhibitors, and then doesn't take long for the pharmaceutical industry to realize there's money and other things. Sure. So there's lots of research going on in the world of erectile dysfunction, trying to use arginase inhibitors for erectile dysfunction. Big money, definitely big, big money. So as it turns out, there are studies out there that have shown that Polly females actually have a strong arginase and Ace to inhibition as well.
Eric Rieger 51:37
And I think this is important, though, to point out because there's a big distinction, at least in our experience of the motivations behind pharmaceuticals, again, is to just find something to block that one enzyme arginase. polyphenols are really the far more natural way for your body to have the things at its arsenal and its disposal to use when needed, which is a much different approach, give your body the tools if I if if I needed a lug nut taken off of my of the wheel, so you change the tire, that'd be great to have that lug nut, you know, wrench. But then later on as a screw comes loose in the car, or I need to any I need to get my spark plugs or something else like that, I would much rather have the toolbox that had the lug nut wrench, the gap for the spark plug and the screwdriver. Versus well now I've got to try to fix my spark plugs with this wrench, and it's not gonna work
Ken Brown 52:36
100%. So think about this, if you develop a drug that is purely an arginase inhibitor. Yeah, but you don't have any nitric oxide synthase. To convert the arginase to nitric oxide, there's,
Eric Rieger 52:47
there's no there's no balance in what you're what you're doing. There's no balance at all in that give your body the fuel to make use from the tool chest as it needs.
Ken Brown 52:58
Absolutely. There have been studies that have shown this, they cite several different studies. But one in particular that I just want to bring up is a polyphenol called Moringa. I'm only bringing this up because we will be discussing Moringa on a future episode. Because it ties in I'm just I love doing this podcast because I learned a lot. I love it when anybody else listens to it, and they comment on it. We do get a lot of emails, and I'm loving that. But the reality is that it's fascinating how many things just come together? Yeah, when you're like, Oh my gosh, nobody's put this to this. Nobody's put this to this. So when I say that we're gonna talk about Marina in the future. Like in the very near future, I got some really cool stuff that I've come across. But there's, we can't, there's only so much we can discuss and on one episode at a time. So when we're looking at all this, and we said in the very beginning of this episode, that inflammation is the root cause. Well, you have to bring up will then address some of that, like, Are there any studies that show when somebody has chronic disease?
Eric Rieger 54:08
for erectile dysfunction, there's tons of that, like diabetes
Ken Brown 54:12
for Oh, for instance. There was a study where it looked at how a poly phenol from a lactic acid, improved erections and diabetic rats. And they were able to demonstrate in these diabetic rats, they induced diabetes in them that this was done through an inhibition of the reactive oxygen species directly and locally in the corpus cavernosum. So diabetes is one disease, okay. There was another study that ingesting pomegranate polyphenols improved penile vasodilation in rats, that they caused severe arterial genic erectile dysfunction, so vascular disease, and this One, after administration of polyphenols they documented increased intra cavernosa blood flow. So increased blood flow to the penis, compared to the untreated rats with the same vascular disease, in other words, coronary artery disease. And the key point in this study was that the decrease in reactive oxygen species allowed an increase in nitric oxide to stick around long enough to override the lack of blood flow. I'll say it again. Wow, the that whole process that I just talked about, where you have inflammation, reactive oxygen species leading to the inflammation, causing the NF Kappa beta to turn on, which leads to vasoconstriction. As it turns out, by giving the poly phenol it allows the nitric oxide to stick around long enough and go like Braveheart hold. I was able to hold open the vessels and be like, we're gonna get an erection one way or the other. Just paint my face blue. Let's go. Let's do it. Yeah, no,
Eric Rieger 56:01
I get it. Hey, I find that interesting, though, too, because it's once again, it's the antithesis is how we got to the problem in the first place. You mentioned COPD, or coronary artery disease, which also include probably similar diseases like peripheral vascular disease, having a problem but what inevitably do they think leads to those, those deposits or those blockages NCD And usually, it's long term inflammation processes, and it can be kicked off by anything can be kicked off by long term sleep apnea, etc. But you end up being deficient in molecules that your body wants to basically control that inflammation. It happens every single time. It's the
Ken Brown 56:45
tipping point, right? When you don't have enough antioxid antioxidants and the pro oxidants turn enough on the NF Kappa beta. Oh, you're on the wrong way.
Eric Rieger 56:56
And then that's a long explanation in and of itself. I'm just highlighting that. That that is ca D is just another instance where what we needed to control systemic or even local inflammation is deficient in the molecules needed to prevent that accumulation that blockage.
Ken Brown 57:13
Do you remember and stepbrothers when they, after they, when they met up at the Catalina wine mixer and he goes, are you still? Are you still? Whatever he said karate chop and watermelons. Whatever he said, he goes, No. And he was but I am taking a daily aspirin. He's like, that's the smart thing to do thing. Yeah. Somewhere in there was the whole enterprise rent a car, they teach you to be your own boss. But anyways, so the whole idea of taking an aspirin a day? Is it because it blocks the the cyclooxygenase pathway? Or is it the antiplatelet pathway? Or oh my gosh, really? aspirin is an anti inflammatories? Yeah,
Eric Rieger 57:55
that's exactly what it is. And it does. It's an anti inflammatory because it was blocking Cox
Unknown Speaker 58:00
Right. Yeah.
Eric Rieger 58:01
So what is polyphenols do
Ken Brown 58:03
co x by the way? Yeah,
Eric Rieger 58:05
yes. It's we're on that subject are we highlight the early in the show? Have you heard him say that's nuts twice? I heard that. So.
Ken Brown 58:18
Yeah, so let's think about that. Like, like, my, everything was just going off in me. I was just like, wait a minute. That's why what we showed that taking an aspirin antiplatelet activity of Plavix. Why do we put people on Plavix to be antiplatelet without treating the underlying inflammatory process?
Eric Rieger 58:37
Yeah, I mean, I think our society just become really accustomed to turning to the drug, which really is only targeting one small thing instead of giving your body the opportunity to correct the more universal problem. Because let's face it, if you're on a antiplatelet therapy like Plavix, of course, it can be saving your life if you had a standard etc. I'm not saying don't take Plavix. However, you do have side effects that come from that that you you can bruise easier. you bleed out you have a scrape. I mean, it's just it's fun.
Ken Brown 59:10
Alright, so we know that you have to if you have a cardiac event, cardiologist goes in get a lot of Cardiology friends and they place a stent open up your artery increases the blood flow problem is the stent has little ridges on it. Yep. And that's where platelets can it he's exact same thing is happening when you do a nude. Oh, yeah,
Eric Rieger 59:29
vessel. That's right.
Ken Brown 59:30
Yeah. You create little ridges, that platelets will stay 100%. Yeah. And then that's all from inflammation. That's all from inflammation. And then finally, in another study using a poly phenol combo from grapes, apples and saffron, they demonstrated that an indirect mechanism in this case, by activating the sirtuin one pathway, we haven't mentioned that yet, but we've talked about it before the sirtuin one pathway which resulted in decreased apoptosis of the endothelium and resistance towards oxidative stress. If the cert diet rings a bell with anybody, that's because a Delta the cert diet lost a bunch of weight and everybody kept talking about the cert diet. It's a poly phenol that yeah, it turns on the serotonins, which basically function to block this stuff that we're talking about a pop ptosis denudation, reactive oxygen species, definitely. So super. Alright, so the bottom line is polyphenols are badass in the natural prevention of erectile dysfunction. And it was shown to do this by multiple mechanisms. Let's just go over the mechanisms super fast. Number one direct anti oxidant effect, right? So it is the antioxidant to protect the pro oxidants that are going on reactive oxygen species. It increases nitric oxide by decreasing the enzyme inducible nitric oxide. So that's the bad one. And it was actually shown to increase nitric oxide synthase because that goes down with inflammation. Correct? Number three, inhibiting arginase. So
Eric Rieger 1:01:14
we didn't talk about this earlier, I think we're gonna get sidetracked. But why is arginine important for nitric oxide production. So if we break down arginine before it has an opportunity to be used by by nitric oxide synthase, then obviously it's just done a fuel or components to make
Ken Brown 1:01:32
nitric oxide correct 100%. So in the prior episode, we talked about it in detail where acetylcholine turns on this ability for arginine to get moved through an enzymatic pathway using nitric oxide synthase. that converts Argentine into nitric oxide, right. So that's why it's so important. So if you don't have enough Argentine, then even if you're doing well, and your body wants to have an erection, it needs this substrate. Yeah. And if your body is breaking it down all the time, because arginase goes up during inflammation, then you don't even have the substrate to do it with
Eric Rieger 1:02:08
just not enough fuel.
Ken Brown 1:02:10
There's not enough fuel, that's that's the best way to put it. Number four, it blocks pro inflammatory pathways like NF Kappa beta. And that, that just leads to blackhat. That's the black hat that just leads to decrease in TNF alpha and interleukin six and all these other inflammatory cytokines. Then it also turns on anti inflammatory pathways through the NRF two pathway, which is the white hat, which turns on the shuts down NF Kappa beta and turns on a whole host of other anti inflammatory processes. And then finally, number we're on six it activates the cert one pathway leading to less a pop ptosis. And it also helps with protecting the reactive oxygen species a pop ptosis creating the bumpy lining the denudation. So Mother Nature secret weapon new and improved for erectile dysfunction. We talked about it for other things, but we didn't really discuss it. Regarding this.
Eric Rieger 1:03:11
I mean, at this point at this point. If you've been on the fence on Should I take polyphenols but you're not on the fence if if you like to have sex? And the answer is yes. If the answer's no, then I mean keep keep skipping. But if you want to protect an intimate love life, then polyphenols are critically important when they just aren't and they always have been it's this isn't new.
Ken Brown 1:03:37
Well, this isn't new, and we just discussed the study out of Miami. We're now we're gonna start we're gonna see a lot more people younger people showing up saying I have erectile dysfunction. What's going on?
Eric Rieger 1:03:47
Yeah, it's gonna be more devastating. The younger that you Oh, one is it's not normal.
Ken Brown 1:03:53
That's not normal. The 100% and it's just one of those things. Nobody. Well, not well, no, I'll say nobody wants to talk about it. Yeah, nobody talks about it until Mike Ditka went on a Viagra commercial. It was like wolf ditches talk about it, then. I guess we can talk about it a little bit more. Oh, yeah. Remember that?
Eric Rieger 1:04:08
Yeah. And then it thank thanks to them honestly, because it broke the barrier to where they became commonplace. I don't remember anybody talking about
Ken Brown 1:04:16
it publicly. No. And then if you're sitting there just going okay, you're done with these polyphenols. Which one that I talked about? You talked about grape. You talked about pomegranate, you talked about Moringa. The bottom line is the larger the more stable poly phenol you have. It will be broken down into the metabolites, the post biotics and we talked about on a prior episode with Silvia her research was she's PhD from Spain. Shout out to her for English being distant second language I think she speaks four languages also. But English being her last to learn and she came on the show and discuss it. Her research show that when you take a large table polyphenol like abbraccio and chestnut, your colonic bacteria, she fermented it, she digested it and fermented it, meaning that it was the metabolites, you kick off all these different smaller phenolic compounds that people try to study like allergic acid, like root and like reservatrol, like curcumin. It's incredible. You give your body what it wants you and we always talk about, you know, get it in your diet first. So eat a very colorful plate, you're going to get that. But to get the same amount of polyphenols, proanthocyanidins in five bowls of berries, it's equivalent to two doses of autoruns. Hill, it's correct. So from poly poly phenol content to poly phenol content of proanthocyanidin. That's, that's where it comes in. Yeah, and that's why I'm so passionate about it and
Eric Rieger 1:05:49
poly finos we made a reference or I made reference earlier to having having a toolbox. So certain polyphenols individually, they're great, they're great for you. But that may just be a small tool bag. And a larger molecule poly phenol like a pro anthocyanin is really like the entire tool chest. Regardless, you're giving your body all of the tools that it needs or several of the tools that it needs in order to make the right metabolites that you're in need of.
Ken Brown 1:06:15
Yeah, so awesome. Do you want to recap this real quick? Because it's that
Eric Rieger 1:06:22
man do I want to do it right now?
Ken Brown 1:06:27
So I got one last question. Which which white? Do you like better?
Unknown Speaker 1:06:37
here
Ken Brown 1:06:37
Why would you choose that? works at all? Yeah, Episode 55. In the books we covered both sarcasm and directions
Eric Rieger 1:06:46
we did we covered sarcastic directions. Thank y'all so much for joining us and we look forward to Episode 56 and that's actually a mystery we're gonna find out what that topic Yeah, that
Ken Brown 1:06:58
one's gonna be a bit of a mystery. So as always, everything that we're talking about on this show, I am a physician Eric is a crna we do treat people on a regular basis but we are not your doctor and unless you are my patient and you're listening to this. So please do not take this as medical advice. This is a show it is for entertainment. And we are also trying to educate so in that light, we would love it if you would share this if you would subscribe. And if you would, you know like it post a comment whatever, so that we can run it through our AI software to find out if you're being sarcastic.
Eric Rieger 1:07:31
Definitely do that we want to run it through our AI software. I thank y'all so much please like and share. Honestly this type of topic kind of gets shadow banned on certain platforms. So if you're ever going to share an episode, please share this one and episode number 55. And of course check out our first ever revisit with Dr. Wade McKinnon because this guy here went and visited him for some stem cell treatment. Thanks everybody. Bye bye.
Dr. McKenna has successfully treated an incredible array of diseases, inside and outside of orthopedics with stem cells. McKenna has been on the front line of stem cells and their clinical application for decades. If you have ever wanted to know the vast array of proven applications for stem cells, do not miss this episode. What stem cells are, how they work, where they are and are not taken from, why cord blood and PRP are NOT the same as stem cells technology used today, the issues of the FDA, his association with RMI (Riordan, McKenna Institute for stem cells with Neil Riordan), treating Mel Gibson and other celebs & lawmakers, the future of research in stem cells, why all SC healthcare providers are not practicing equally (or ethically), why Panama & the Bahamas are used for advanced stem cell therapy and more.
Hello Gut check project fans and KB MD Health family I hope you're having a great day This is your host Eric Rieger soon to be joined on my awesome co host Dr. Kenneth Brown. If the audio sounds kind of funny on this intro, I'm just having to record it while doing a little traveling and regardless, it will not take away today's episode will not disappoint. This is about erectile dysfunction. What can be done about it? Who wants to deal with it doesn't matter if it's male or female. You don't want to have to be dealing with erectile dysfunction it you know the inappropriate time. So let's not waste any more of your time and get straight to the podcast. But first, our awesome sponsors artron to get your daily poly finos and ultra and to go to love my tummy.com slash KB MD. Love My tummy.com get your poly phenol calls today and of course unrefined bakery incredible food, go to unrefined bakery.com if you are a keto eater, a paleo eater, a gluten free eater or you just like great food that happens to be healthy for you. Go to unrefined bakery.com felt like you had to avoid good tasting cookies simply because you have celiac disease. Well, don't worry, they are certified gluten free and all of their products and get 20% off your entire first order with code. gut check that's unrefined bakery.com use code gut check and save 20% off your entire first order. And last but not least, go to KB Md health.com. If you'd like to check out the podcast and all of our products that we offer, then you can do so just head to KB Md health.com. You can find the home of the podcast all of our previous recordings from gut check project and you know get to know Dr. Brown and myself a little better and shoot us a message. All right. On to episode number 54 the reptile dysfunction
Hello gut check project fans and KB MD health family. How are you doing today? I hope it's great. I am here for Episode 54 with my awesome co host Dr. Kenneth brown and today's topic. I think it's actually pretty popular even though when people have it. They don't like it.
I was gonna say it's not popular. It's common. Oh yeah. Popular.
Yes. No one really? Yeah.
No. Today we're talking about erectile dysfunction Ed, and I'm doing this as gastroenterologist because we're seeing that the pandemic may have a strong effect on this but probably not in the way that you're thinking. So today's episode is going to really look at the rise in erectile dysfunction in younger men that are otherwise healthy. That's what we're going to talk about the rise in erectile dysfunction pun intended.
Yes, apparently that is funny wording for you. But nice. So erectile dysfunction Episode 54. I don't you told me there's going to be surprised. Yeah.
Yeah. So lately what I've been doing when I get Latin when I latch on to a topic, I pretty much don't tell Eric what we're gonna do. So just kind of see him. And so I thought today would be really funny to see how many times he giggles at the word reptile. So if we count it, it could it could turn into a drinking game. I'm not sure.
Yeah. Okay. Well, fortunately, all natural, sparkling wine. So
that's what we're gonna talk about today, reptile dysfunction. So before we jump into that, I have an ask of anybody who's listening to this. Okay. All right. So this is my ask for the public. I have an amazing team at my office and one of my amazing team members. It gave her two week notice and she's leaving for reasons like all people do, she's getting better opportunities. And I'm proud of her to do this. She helps her deal who is my scheduler work with my patients, and she helps these patients and it's been working really great. So what I'm asking is if anybody listening happens to be super cool, nice, loyal and wants to work with a great team. Or if you know anybody who happens to be super cool, loyal and wants work with a great team. I would like to find somebody to fill this role. There is no medical experience necessary. I'm just looking to hire the personality. So we're just trying to find these cool loyal people go to KB Md health.com kB Md health.com and just hit the Contact Us button. If you know of anybody. Sign up your friends family, we just I really am very proud of my team. I'm very proud of the way that my team takes care of my patients and I'm really going to fill this pretty tough void so I'm reaching out to everybody. Yeah, and if you're watching this show, from far away from Plano does not include commute travel expenses or per diems. So you're probably going to want to be in the area of the clip probably want to be local. Yeah. On your way. And if you're thinking of moving the plane over for Go anyways, I would go ahead and do that. And so, all right, let's do the usual Eric, what's going on with your life?
We're about to renovate our house we moved into about a year ago. And actually today after we finish filming, I've got to go to a builders meeting. And so this is a this is a first a true renovation of a home that we that we live in and feeling that anxious but gonna be displaced for a little bit so I'm not super excited about it, but at the same time, we'll be okay.
Yeah, I mean, I would just to ease your anxiety if you learn more about homebuilding Oh, then you'll feel more comfortable. So I'm gonna recommend a movie called the money pit with Tom Hanks.
That is not the movie.
Showing long and Tom, you'll learn a lot about that. Yeah, I'd say never heard of this movie. Doesn't he say home crap home. As far as me, I've got Lucas in Costa Rica. Today's international tournament right now is in the quarters currently playing. Lucas, let's give it to him. And Carla will be playing out of town this weekend for a large tournament as well. So we got the usual thing going on. And I'm getting my stem cells next week.
You are you're getting stem cells. In fact, he even came down with a little bit of extra pain yesterday in your neck.
I did. Yeah. So it's interesting. I'm really excited to see what this will do. I hurt my neck. surgery was recommended. I've been really trying to avoid surgery. Dr. Wade McKenna was a guest on our show early on. And he's really one of the world's leading stem cells. Definitely. I just happen to be fortunate enough that he's in the DFW Metroplex. So, him and Dr. Jerry Lewis are going to work their magic and I'm going to get a stem cell injection plus a stem cell infusion. And what you and I were talking and yeah, so everyone. So as I do scopes, everyone saw you a little pain, I'll be like, it's I'm still gonna do it. We were talking, you came across some literature, which we will do a whole show on after I do this. All right, about how polyphenols can augment the stem cell stuff, right? Yeah.
So there's a handful of them and kind of on a whim, just knowing that we're research based and wait is certainly research based. And we've talked many times with him about how can we complement each other? Because that way, it's very altruistic. And if you have, if you don't know that, just listen to the episode. And you can learn a lot about what he's given up just to give his patients the best service. But knowing that I was really curious on what do polyphenols do, they could augment what it is that Wade McKenna does at his office. And I mean, it's a simple Google search turned up a lot of articles about, well, I don't want to get into it and give it all away. But yeah, it's it's there.
Well, it's interesting, because you and I both do intermittent fasting. And we know that intermittent fasting causes a tapa G and fasting long enough turns on stem cells, and we know the polyphenols are fasting the medic molecule, correct. So that at least we know that way. But we're gonna do a whole show on that. And we might even be able to get one of these cool scientists come in and talk about it, you know, like we did with Charlene and Sylvia, which I still get a lot of feedback from patients about that. No kidding, is
deep, but I was I'm really proud of our audience that we have. Because y'all, you stick to it, and you really dig in deep to the to the material. And I mean, how many times do we in the show going, man, I hope that wasn't too thick. And the next thing you know, we get email and patients coming in saying that they love the episode had no idea that such and such worked. And sometimes I'm like, did we say that? No.
Is that what they told us? Yeah, we're getting emails from really all over the world, which is really cool that we got people listening in all different kinds of places. Sure. Um, last episode, we talked about what month is this what day it is, and as it turns out, April right now is stress Awareness Month. Oh, nice stress Awareness Month. And interestingly, we just got our paper published, we just got our study published in the clinical case reports and reviews at the beginning of COVID. To try and help the frontline workers manage it. The title is gastrointestinal symptom and stress recall survey in frontline health care, healthcare workers after consumption of combined quebracho conquer tree embell Salma a wild extract, what that is, is that's the generic term for atrantil. So this will talk about this study on a different date, but I'm very happy that it got published because it was really good results. And as we're gonna get into further into this episode, and then further into the next episode, right, we're gonna get into how maybe polyphenols are really affecting your stress level and different things. Yeah. So and I know what you're gonna do before you interrupt me, I know what you're gonna do. You're like, hey, it's not just stress Awareness Month in April, I realized that April is actually national Awareness Month of a whole bunch of things, like a whole bunch of things like Autism Awareness Month, which is very important, very important. And then and I'm not kidding here. It is.
National safe. Digging month is that we have to call test dig before you hit a line. I
have no idea but I know
you dug deep on that.
I mean, I can just imagine this, you know, I mean, like, for God's sakes, Bill, you're just such a reckless digger. It's April, this is the one month where you got to not do that. It's April. This is not reckless digging. It's safe digging bill. So I just imagine conversations like that happening. I,
I'm not kidding, I think you dial 311 and you find out if they can send someone out to your property and tell you if there's a line or a pipe or something like that before you dig.
They must get inundated in April.
Well, I must have to hire like they couldn't have done it. late February because we were iced over. That's true. So now now's when people I remember being snowed over and you are like, don't you just wish this was all thought? Dig? I
thought for sure you'd at least wonder who bill is and why such a reckless digger. You know? Well, I thought everybody knows who bill is. I know Bill's my pet badger. So Bill, and I've been at odds for a long time about his digging habits at my house. So I'm just hoping that
Well, hopefully Bill's calling 311
I don't know. I'm not. I don't know, Bill. I got him because he was supposed to be the sweet badger. It's called a honey badger. But he's not sweet at all. Oh, not even Nice.
Yeah, no, he's not they never are. Did you have skunks are a badger is a form of badger. I
didn't know that. Yeah, well,
not honey badger. They do not smell like honey whatsoever.
So Bill causes a lot of stress in my life digging everywhere without calling 311. Before doing this a national safe digging month. Why do we even care about stress? Stress affects so many things? Oh, wow. Yeah, super important. Because stress can actually those headaches, you're having the insomnia that's going on this severe fatigue that you're having, you're going to these doctors seeing stuff when actually it could be stress. So it's important to pay attention. And I got to add another layer of stress here. Okay, hate to do this. This is already a very, very stressful time in the pandemic, everything's going on. There is new evidence coming out that COVID is now causing chronic erectile dysfunction in younger men who were completely otherwise healthy. That's terrible. I know. It's like it's not a bad enough virus already.
But so do do the link this back to stress.
And where we're going, we're gonna get into this. So actually, this has actually come up in my clinic several times. So you know, we did the episode about hemorrhoids last time, I do treat a lot of hemorrhoids. And once you're doing that with somebody, I think that they feel comfortable enough bringing up other potentially difficult topics like erectile dysfunction. So I've been seeing a trend of younger men asking me questions about erectile dysfunction. And after the first one mentioned that this kind of all started after they had COVID. I started asking, and most of these people have had COVID. Interesting. Yeah. So this is why we're doing this episode, I went down a proverbial badger hole. And we're gonna try and solve this
just trying to sort kind of our categories here are these same men? I guess you mentioned hemorrhoids. Are these same people also afflicted with hemorrhoids? If I do hemorrhoids, what's going on there?
Well, it's this is an interesting topic also, because that's something else that I want to look into in the future, there is some correlation with large hemorrhoids leading to what's called venous Steele syndrome is a whole separate topic. It just happens to be that the people I treat are also the same ones that are coming to me for hemorrhoids, right? So if all you have is a hammer that everything's a nail, Cheryl, I'm trying to think outside the box and go, Why in the world would this do this? And so I started researching it. And lo and behold, a new report was just published, which confirmed my suspicion. So a study was just recently published out of Italy, showing that COVID-19 increases the risk of developing chronic erectile dysfunction, nearly six fold. I must say that again, if you get COVID, and you're a young male, you may have thought that it was perfectly smooth and easy. And you got through it. You have a six fold increase in developing erectile dysfunction. It's terrible. And then they backtracked with the data a little bit. And then they realize that those that were already diagnosed with erectile dysfunction had a five fold increase of contracting the virus. That works now both ways. The second part makes a little bit of sense, and we'll get into that, but this study was led by Dr. Giannini, who is a professor of endocrinology and medical sexology at the University of Rome. It was published in andrology. I just liked the idea of being double board certified and sexology and endocrinology.
Yeah, I didn't know that was an option.
I didn't know it was either. I'm gonna go get double board.
That's it. I mean, it doesn't sound like it wouldn't be entertaining.
This was just published just last month. In this paper, they explained that ultimately, the underlying issue and erectile dysfunction is endothelial dysfunction attorneys gonna keep coming up over and over. Okay? Now this is a super complex process. And I'm going to go into this in in detail in just a few minutes. But basically in their study design, they did an online survey early on in the pandemic. So they discovered this very early. We don't know what these numbers are now that we're a year into the pandemic. And they compare to erectile dysfunction. People that fill out the survey versus non erectile dysfunction groups EDI for short, and accounted for other variabilities like psychological stress locked down financial stress, they took those out, they're looking strictly at COVID at COVID on this one. So they were able to get 100 adults, and they use what's called a logistic regression model, which is why you hire statisticians to do these kind of papers for you.
Yes.
And they came up with those numbers, that after getting COVID, the likelihood of developing EDI was six fold higher than those that were not infected. Wow, I crazy, right? And their conclusion is that erectile dysfunction is all about the endo phillium. And those are the layers that line the blood vessels right now it's starting to go, that makes sense. Because we know that COVID creates a lot of different problems. And so that's when I went, Oh, my gosh, this makes sense. So, in there, Dr. Giannini must have a sense of humor, because in the paper, they actually said you should, it gives a whole new meaning to wearing the mask mask up to keep it up is what the doctor said. So I guess, somebody that's double board and endocrinology and sexology can make jokes like that and still get published. Yeah, respected journals. I tried that there's no way to be accepted. And so what he's saying is wearing the mask could potentially prevent you from getting COVID and also protect your prevent you from getting sexual dysfunction. And they're plausible mechanism by which COVID-19 may impact directly on the endothelial cells, leading to a reptile dysfunction. So in the paper, they go on to describe we're now seeing all these COVID long holders, right seeing patients that show up with neurologic complications, cardiac complications, pulmonary complications, we also know that people were having cardiac events, and they're having strokes. It all comes down to the inflammation in the endothelial lining the endothelial lines, all these origins, but more importantly, it lines the blood vessels supplying the organs. So the concern specifically is that the virus is directly damaging these endothelial cells. And this is how some people feel the virus causes long term damage, not just to those origins, but if you're otherwise healthy, it could hurt it could cause long term damage to your penis.
I don't want that. No,
this is I mean, this is kind of shocking stuff to think about it, but it makes sense because we're gonna get into the physiology of the penis. Here. Oh, by the way, I'm just got my master's in psychology. I'm not a doctorate yet. Not double board certified, but I just got my master's.
I don't know when you had the time
an hour ago, when I was preparing for this podcast.
That does not sound like an accredited school.
I is one of those online things. And that's one of the really reputable hard to get into, like University of Phoenix. I mean, it was, you know, Danna college, online school. So interesting. Yeah, we'll see
what it we'll see what you learned.
What I thought was interesting that somebody for 400 bucks, they gave me the title and then I Danna is where I went to undergrad. They close,
they are not around anymore.
So then another study. So then I started going down, and I looked at this and I was like, Okay, we got one study that looked at the actual a pool of people that had this. And then another study recently conducted, what they did is they made the correlation between COVID and erectile dysfunction. And their conclusion was that they assumed that the increase in cardiovascular and pulmonary complications is what is driving the erectile dysfunction.
I mean, it makes sense it, I guess, I guess what I'm what I think you're leaning to or that this information is leading us towards is that COVID basically kicks off this systemic inflammation problem. And that being the case. inflammation, once again, is the root of long term and chronic disease. And knowing that erectile dysfunction happens to be one of the manifestations of
and so that's what I want to get out here. You're exactly right, local or systemic inflammation, because all inflammation starts local and when it leads to a cytokine release on whatever episode that was that we did the innate immune system. Do you have any idea of why we believe that the end endothelial cells with a blood vessel cells are so ravaged by SARS cov, two or COVID,
probably because of angiotensin converting enzyme receptors, Estill receptors.
That's exactly it. So in this particular study and another one in the Journal of endocrinology investigation, what they said was that we had to be very careful because we know that SARS cov, two binds to the h2 receptor to get into the cell is access. That's its access. So the final conclusion of all these articles is that we now know that COVID can have both a direct and indirect effect on your penis. It's terrible. nobody's talking about that now, and this could just be the beginning. Like we don't really know like this. The data they published six fold increase was a very small number of people because it was early on in the pandemic, right? I mean, kudos to Dr. Giannini, who was thinking about erectile dysfunction when we didn't even know that SARS cov. Two was, yeah,
I mean, I'm amazed continually who hopped on board early to know that these were things to be testing for so early in the game.
Yeah. So the so the study that we just got published, we were working on this way back in April. I know we're working on
a Yeah, working on in April, launching in May.
Yeah. Working on an April launching in May, finalizing June, July, August. And then you go through all these revisions and so that, I mean, he really, he really worked hard to get this out. So more stress for stress Awareness Month. So I'm gonna, I'm throwing a lot at you. Let's just recap. Because right now, this is stuff that nobody's talking about.
Yeah, no, right. I mean, I don't know where to begin with the recap. But I do believe that what we need to talk about is how can you prepare your body to successfully harness and Okay, let's just say that someone gets COVID. Yeah, I don't want them to worry perpetually, that they won't ever be able to imagine a life without EDI. And in sorry, for the moment, I'm gonna give you all play by play. Ken is on the ground. He's looking for a cable. Yes. And he just found it. And he wants, he wants me to keep talking. But what he's doing is quite dangerous. He's touching things, he's unplugging things. And I can guarantee you he did not call 311 before he started to dig down there, and then that mess of wires. Alright, however, he's back, I think you're muted. So that was really bad. So what I was saying is, is I think that regardless of what causes or triggers a cascade of inflammation, even if it happens to be COVID-19, you want to be certain that your body is prepared to not allow inflammation to run out of control.
Absolutely. and protect your endothelial lining everywhere, right?
And long term inflammation will be destroying that your healthy cells will be competing with out of control inflammation to 100%.
So we're gonna eventually talk about how to protect yourself. Okay, but not on this episode. This is part one, part two, we're gonna be getting some cool science. Yeah, I just learned that. I know. Okay, but you're but you're on the right track your your level two Polly phonologists. So we're gonna be talking about that. But to actually understand this, I don't think many people really know what erectile dysfunction is. I mean, it gets talked about all the time. There's commercials and all this stuff.
Yeah. Well, okay, where do you Where do you want to go?
Let's start. Let's start with the definition. Okay. By definition, erectile dysfunction is defined in the medical literature as the inability to achieve or maintain an erection sufficient for satisfactory sexual performance.
Yeah, that sounds awful.
Yeah. very vague from medical definition also.
Yeah, because that's how medical things are written.
I just imagine this, this process with your with your partner and cheer he or she goes, you know, really should go see somebody about that. And then your responses, why we just had sex for two hours. And then shear your partner goes, That's not enough. I need at least three hours and by the medical definition, I'm not fully satisfied, therefore you have erectile dysfunction. You got Ed.
I don't think that we're a good match.
The definition was sufficient for satisfactory sexual performance. What is your satisfactory 100%
not everything written in the medical journal is tested for for common communication I had
and I'm not making So when I did residency, I worked in the geriatric clinic so you do internal medicine, you get assigned to clinic. I love doing the geriatric clinic, as I spent most of the time taking drugs away. 85 year old male 83 year old female, super smart. They came to the clinic. Because her complaint was, Oh, yes. Her complaint was that something is wrong, because they're only intimate three times a week. And for the past 60 years, good. There was awesome. I'm like, Oh, my. And so I went and when when you're in residency, you have to present it to the attendings. And every attending was like a maintenance couple. No kidding. Yeah. So they're apparently at 85, three times a week was considered EDI, in this case, because they had a different expectation, then everyone. Come on, man. Post stemcell. We don't even go to Padre anymore. I'm freaking 90. It's like, you know,
14 days always going to bed at two three in the morning. He won't even stay up and dance.
Is this. I'm gonna I'm sorry, ma'am. Why are you here? He's like, Bill just doesn't want to rave anymore. It's because bills and
bills shows up a lot.
Bill. So anyways, I just think it's funny because whatever your definition of EDI, it's kind of like what your definition is. But I think most people can agree that the inability to achieve interaction or lose interaction is a big deal, right. And prior to COVID, it was projected that 322 million men worldwide will have significant erectile dysfunction by 2025. My prediction is that post COVID this may be a much, much bigger deal. We may be seeing a ton more.
That worldwide, worldwide. Okay. That's a lot. It's still quite a bit, but just south of 8 billion people. 322 million seeking care. Oh, seeking care. Wow. That's good point. Yeah. Wow. That's awful. Yeah. A lot of people. That's a lot of unhappy couples, for sure.
Yeah, for sure. Alright, so you're ready to talk some sexology it's good. All right, we're gonna talk about the process of an erection.
Okay, so it sounds to me like we're gonna be talking about blood flow and what stimulates that and how those things work.
This is kind of a PG episode. Yeah, because we got it because it's just off the topic, but we're gonna be science is the topic. Alright. Remember that? The process of an erection is very complex. Actually. I forgot how complex this was. It's multifactorial. You need to have a balance of psychological hormonal, neurological, vascular and anatomic factors. any alteration anywhere can actually affect the whole process.
Yes, no penis, no erection.
This is true. No. Unless you're like, mentally on a different level.
No blood. No. I mean, we're picking up what you're putting down what's going
on down here. I have a penile gland erection. I've achieved enlightenment. I can make my pineal gland. your pineal gland is in your brain. I'm sorry. I'm assuming Everybody knows that.
Yeah,
maybe you do gland is also pronounced but
yeah, that's that's honestly, I just nodded. I didn't know what the hell you're talking. I was
trying to make a pun.
Yeah. It's called the third eye. But it's up here. Yeah.
So anyways, a lots going on. This is super complex. Alright, I'm going to go Bill Nye science guy on you. Okay. And so I built a prop before you got here.
This will be interesting. I hope that if you're not, if you're one of the 1000s that are online, you just go back to this part of the show and look at whatever the heck is
planed. Everyone what's going on here and we will walk through a reaction. I thought we would do.
Yeah, it looks like that's what we're gonna
do. But can you describe what I just put on the table there It looks
to me like to dish sponges with a two retractable those little squishy key ring holders holding the two sponges together. And on one end, you have a long hot dog balloon filled with water. And I can only imagine that what we're going to do here is show what happens when blood flow arrives in a typical man's penis. You are exactly
right. So what we're gonna do here is Oh, yes. So let's walk through the process. Okay. So first step, your brain,
which is probably on this end,
somewhere way on the other end of that way over here, okay? So your brain find something arousing They could be anything for anybody, okay? And that arousing that arousal without knowing it, a signal is sent through your nerves, okay? To a nerve in the endothelial cells of your penis, and we're going to talk specifically about that. And what it does is it releases a chemical that we're all that we talked about all the time. acetylcholine, acetylcholine Yeah. And then what acetylcholine does is it actually hops onto the endothelial cells, the lining of the sponge hops there. And the acetylcholine actually creates this calcium mediated conversion of Argentine to nitric oxide. And people talk about nitric oxide all the time about vezo dilation. We've talked about it before on different episodes for sports using polyphenols for sports, right? So they see the Coleen calcium mediated channel opens up arginine gets converted to nitric oxide, and then nitric oxide is the key to this whole process. Okay. So nitric oxide, what it does is, it goes through this very interesting process of turning on something called the cgmp, the cyclic guanosine monophosphate, which opens up potassium and calcium channels. And what that does, is that stimulates increased blood flow represented by the balloon, notice that my hand is trapping the blood flow there. So right now the nitric oxide stimulated by acetylcholine turned on by the brain has opened up blood flow to these spongy areas here, known as the corpus cavernosum. The corpus cavernosum is filled with blood vessels and so blood rushes in. And then these swell up and it actually traps the blood, right? And this is the actual process of having an erection. So you need the mental component. You need the proper amino acids you need the proper health and the nitric oxide. Why is the nitric oxide so important? Because in the next episode, we're gonna talk about what COVID does to this whole process, okay, and as it turns out, affecting the endothelial cells is the key. Because when the endothelial cells don't do this process, you cannot achieve this, okay? So, when you are done being aroused, the cgmp is then broken down by an enzyme called phospho. diaster, Ace, five, PD five. And then the blood is slowly allowed to leave the cleaners, and you go back to its natural state. And so that fossil diaster race is important also, because once you achieve arousal, and once you're no longer aroused, the penis goes back to its normal state. That's the thing that created that made Pfizer into a multi multi billion dollar business, some scientist was trying to work on a high blood pressure medicine, to increase nitric oxide to vezo dilate the blood so that you drop your blood pressure. And if you remember the history of that one, they were doing a clinical study and none of the men returned their unused samples unused. And then that's when, you know, some poor scientists is like my life's work is ruined, I'll never fix high blood pressure, nobody ate something much better
here again.
And that is what is now known as Viagra, it actually blocks that enzyme that allows this to be released. And so this is all happening on the endothelial cells. And so once that enzyme gets blocked, then you can actually maintain an erection longer and all the other things and all the other TV commercials regarding those whole class of medicines. Now, there are phosphodiesterase five inhibitors, one little enzyme is what MIT turned it into a billion dollar industry. And so this is all happening right there to endothelial cells. So if there's any inflammation or damage to those cells, this whole process can't be achieved. Yeah. No matter how much you want to will it right, like there's more going on than that. So would you like to recap the process? Wow, that is a lot. And you don't really have to say the sciency words I just want to see you squeezing the balloon
I can see. So essentially arousal, if endothelial cells are now stimulated, so that they can be dilated and that occurs because arginine is then converted into nitric oxide, which then of course has cgmp. And suddenly now we have a place for this high pressure blood flow to go. And I see I'm having problems. Probably more the reason why you want
to be so anxiety can also I'm very nervous isn't working.
But anyway, so now we have an erection because what we have here is the positive. Well all four all four measures were met. And our endothelial cells are allowed to becoming gorged, and then suddenly now phospho diaster race arrives, because we're finished, and blood flow returns back to normal, and
you're good to go. 100%. So let's look at a couple health issues that tend to have more reptile dysfunction. So diabetes, definitely Oh man, poor
vasculature,
poor vasculature. You can have neuropathy, you don't have the nerves traveling secreting the acetylcholine, you have some vasculopathy. So your arteries look like the tail end of this in the middle. So there's things that can happen with that. hypertension is another one chronic hypertension. Definitely. So chronic hypertension, it can lead to issues with erectile dysfunction. Both of those have increased h2 receptors in the endothelial cells. Yeah.
So you got better access for that COVID if you happen to be infected, so now you've got it's kind of like, multiplying the damage.
Yes, exactly. And which also makes sense why people with prior reptile dysfunction had a five fold increase in developing significant COVID. Kind of makes sense.
Yeah, it does. It's just more Ace to receptors present. Yeah.
So you know, it's a very crude model, Bill Nye science guy kind of thing here.
Oh, I think you really hit it on the park.
I imagine walking around the studio trying to find things that I can like, you know, what I really want to do I want to do, I want to find something that that signifies the corpus cavernosum. It's a spongy, like smooth muscle sponge. Yes.
Yeah, like that. I don't remember anybody talking about the key ring holder. But I mean, regardless, it works. Trust me. I
thought of a lot of different ways how to make sure that the sponge is bad, though. I
mean, that's kind of how tissues functions.
Yeah. Yeah. So you have this. This is a smooth muscle. So anything that affects smooth muscle can actually affect this. Yeah. So that's how come we always talk about increasing sports performance, increasing nitric oxide, having the proper diet, all these things play into a role. So having the proper diet, maintaining healthy lifestyle, exercising increases? Oh, here's a great example. I was thinking about this. I was like, why is exercise so important? Well, exercise increases BDNF in your brain, oh, decreased neuro inflammation, allowing for more sensitivity allowing for more acetylcholine to go through. We know from Angie's Angie being on a guest. On the episode, she discussed how TNF an inflammatory marker decreases acetylcholine. So the more chronic inflammation you have, the higher likelihood you will not have the proper amount acetylcholine. So there's something else there, then we get into the vascular aspect of this, with regular exercise in good sleep, you have increased or improved vascular tone. So it all kind of plays into this
is something that we didn't talk about in the breakdown on on the stimuli for where acetylcholine is coming from. And just a brief thing, but if I remember correctly, I think that the parasympathetic nervous system is actually the catalyst right for the release of acetylcholine. And if you can't rest, and you don't have good vagal tone, then you then just like you said earlier, you won't have the correct neurotransmitters to make this happen. That comes with great rest, which helps lower your anxiety. How can you get great rest you exercise is a cyclical thing. You're
You know what? I'm so glad you brought that up, because this is something we learned in med school. And I forgot to because it wasn't discussed in any of these articles, and I kind of stopped at that. But you're exactly right. To achieve an orgasm. I need the parasympathetic system to get that acetylcholine to start on sorry, to achieve an erection to achieve an orgasm, you need your sympathetic. Yeah. And so that sympathetic drops all these things maintaining this, which is why you go back to your normal state post or in
your phospho das races now present. Yes, yeah. phosphodiesterase is released, you break down cgmp blood flow is allowed to leave. And that's a really cool, fascinating thing, which is that people who have great vagal tone generally are exercising and don't have chronic anxiety. They usually have great rest, they typically eat well. Good. When we have patients who show up in the clinic or at the procedure, the procedure suite, they'll have a low heart rate. They generally have good physique and are healthy. They're either runner, cyclers lifters, crossfitters, whatever happens to be but today they're active, they vigorous lots, lots and lots and lots of diggers. But But I guess I'm just saying it augments in order to prepare for something like, like COVID you really just want to be in shape. You just want to take care of yourself. You want to give yourself that health span. We've we Sitting on services.
Yeah and this this can be done through a lot of different ways. Just getting up and getting some. Oh my gosh. So while I was waiting for you to come over I get done with clinic a little early turned on. Brian Reagan has special at Red Rocks. Oh nice. I didn't know there was one. Oh, it's he's just I just you know he's just good. We're both big fans of stand up comedy huge big fan of stand up comedy. It's called Reagan on the rocks. And I'm I'm didn't look it up. But it the way you describe it. I think it's red rocks in Colorado. Oh, it's
gotta be it was outdoor. Yeah,
yeah. And it's like this amphitheater type style, outdoor rocks. And he was like, he was Yeah, I'm at that age. I'm going to doctors all the time. My doctor said, Brian, you need to quit being so sedentary. As he goes, right? Then I promised myself I need to get a dictionary. And never got around to it. I just lay around the house all day. So but I thought that was funny because he's never I just get out and do something, just get moving a little bit. you increase the blood flow, increase your body's responsiveness, your vagal tone. And then other issues that you may have problems with. The interesting thing is how many people how many men will avoid other health issues? Until erectile dysfunction comes up? Yeah. Which is, which I think is you ask a lot of people yeah, that that'll be the thing. They'll drive into a doctor? Yeah, I
think guys are just generally just I don't know what it is. But guys are just generally that way about health care in, in total. Agreed? Yeah.
So this is part one, because I didn't want to go on for way too long. This is still I think we're, we're having a decent time here. We're a little bit shorter than we normally do. But that's probably Yeah. But that's probably a good thing, because maybe we try and pack too much in all the time. So part two is going to be what can you do to make sure that you protect your penis, okay? How polyphenols on a molecular level work to take care of it, prevent it. And it all comes down to everything you're talking about inflammation and how it does it the amount that you need to take, how do you increase your nitric oxide all of the above. And spoiler, it is going to be all about inflammation. And I'm just I'm looking at the products that that are near and dear to my heart. I tried to polyphenol blend CBD didn't find anything directly related to nitric oxide. But there's a lot of evidence that CBD decreasing anxiety definitely allows a greater vagal tone and acetylcholine release. And of course, brockagh lead with sulforaphane in it decreasing NF Kappa beta, which we'll get into, which is all about inflammation. So
that awesome episode, great introduction to what people struggle with and shouldn't be ashamed to go and seek help
now. And I think that we'll be able to explain how to protect yourself from this, which ultimately is protecting your overall health, which ultimately protects you from COVID. And if you've been a maybe a little bit Cavalier towards COVID. Yeah, this is one of those things that kind of gets you thinking twice a little bit. Yeah,
definitely no awesome episode.
Yeah. Hey, this is I mean, I don't know if you want to try this at all, but it is a little
bit soothing to move the water back and forth. Do you remember those those, those little things that used to have the inverted water below the water? Snake? Water? Snake? Yeah, you try to hang on to it and go all over the place? Yeah, that's similar to that.
It is similar to that. But so anyways, I've submitted a patent as a teaching tool once I get my psychology degree. So I was told to tell you, you're not going to get that.
That is going to be Episode 54. Be certain to turn in our are we going to do the follow up on 55?
We're going to develop on 55. Yes. So 55 is going to be all about the science and what you can do to protect your penis, protect your health. And we're going to continue with, you know, battling COVID by prevention, not just when this happens, you know, it's this thing that we talked about what we've done, I don't remember how long that was vitamin D and all the usual stuff. I don't know either. But it's all it's funny how this is just becoming this multi circle Venn diagram and everything's landing right in the middle. And that middle is inflammation all the time.
Definitely. Oh, almost forgot, this show is not meant for medical advice. So if you have any issues with erectile dysfunction, or any other health concern, please consult the doctors that you know, and this is technically just a show that we just talked about things that happen to be in health.
It is it's just a show. But the other thing is that the whole point of the show is to also try and help one person so if somebody is having an issue, and they agree checked out because of this because they found the weird sponge thing, entertaining or not entertaining, then we've done our job.
Absolutely. So Episode 54. No joke. Not one from you about car 54 I'm shocked with all of your your lame dad jokes. I honestly expected you to show up with like a cop hat and a spinning red light or something like that.
I took my because my employer was put it two weeks and I took the staff out. Yeah, we are at a restaurant. And of course I'm throwing out and the waitress, same age as all my employees. they impart that my employees apologize, so he's gonna throw these out all night. She's like, Oh, don't worry, I'm totally down with that jokes. I'm like
my boys have it doesn't matter how funny I think a meme is. I send it to them and they but they just type back seven years ago. It's all I get back.
It's all you buy for both Mac engaged. So tune in next week for more dad jokes, I
guess tons of dad jokes. Alright, that's gonna be Episode 54. Thank you so much for liking shared, certainly if you have a concern, rewatch and then tune in for Episode 55 or get some follow up on what can be done to naturally protect yourself from hopefully,
yeah, and and and in all seriousness, if you have a friend or anybody that has discussed this with you or something like that, make sure that they listen to this because it could be an early sign of something else. Definitely that could that could save their life.
Thank you all very much. We'll see you next time. Bye bye.
Hello Gut Check project fans and KBMD Health family. I hope you're having a great day. It's your host Eric Rieger soon to be joined by my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. It's time for Episode Number 53 and this is a really informative episode about what causes Hemorrhoids and believe it or not, would you maybe listening to this podcast on could be making your hemorrhoids worse? That's right The phone anyhow, how is this possible? We'll just check out Episode 53 it's it's very light but really informative and without wasting any more time let's get to our sponsors. And as always, I'll try until formulated by my partner Dr. Ken otter ideal chock full of polyphenols go to love my tummy calm doesn't matter if you're an athlete trying to protect your gut health. If you just want to protect your body from systemic inflammation, trying to daily go to love my tummy calm that's love my tummy, calm slash, KB MD get your polyphenols today, and of course unrefined bakery, great food, regardless of your specialty diet. If you need to be paleo or keto or certainly gluten free, head to unrefined bakery.com use code, gut check and save 20% off your first order. This is just great food, great groceries delivered to your door unrefined bakery.com use code gut check and save 20% off your first order. And last but not least, go to KB Md health.com. And you can peruse the three signature products that Dr. Brown endorses his own CBD as well as Brocelite chock full of severe things and of course auto deal. So go to KB Md health.com. Use code GCP and save 20% off of any order anytime. Alright, let's get to it. Episode Number 53 what is causing my hemorrhoids every day?
Hello Gut Check project fans and KBMD health family How are you doing? I'm Eric Rieger flanked here by my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. It's Episode 53 What's up, man? That's
awesome. It's Episode 53. And you rarely refer to me as awesome. That's why I'm gonna use it three times in the same sentence. That's an awesome sentence. Usually it's I'm I'm here with my adequate co host, Dr. Ken Brown.
Yeah, I've never said that. And y'all will never use awesome again. That's probably not even true. So what's what's shakin here for Episode 53.
And this is exciting because Episode 53 it's gonna be all about hemorrhoids, hemorrhoids, hemorrhoids and Roy Roy. Yeah, this all came about because I was treating a patient in their mid 20s. And that person asked if it was unusual for me to be treating a person that was they felt that this was an older person's disease. And I said no, actually, I treat a lot of people in their 20s. And I started thinking about it. And I went, you know, I do treat a lot. And that person said, Why is that? And what I have not paused to think about and he goes you should do a show on it. Yeah, and I went absolutely. And as suggested we're doing a show on hemorrhoids. So I am declaring today officially national hemorrhoid Awareness Day. That's very
ambitious. I actually you're not you're not gonna believe me, but I actually believe that there is a hemorrhoid day. And there's actually a hemorrhoid month the hemorrhoid days October 19. And hemorrhoid month is November and I don't want to take it away from you. Maybe this could be hemorrhoid
30 minutes. Yes, yes. We all know this. Everyone knows that October 19. Everyone knows and it's also national clean your virtual desktop days national Kentucky day. National seafood bisque day 10 National LGBT Center Awareness Day. hemorrhoids gets buried under all that so I'm pulling hemorrhoids out and declaring today national hemorrhoid day.
So we're shining the light on him right. I'm changing. Everyone likes to have their hemorrhoids eliminated. Oh,
I emailed the national hemorrhoid committee and found out there is not one I made myself president. And by doing so. I voted. I was I filled a quorum and I was able to change it this morning. Today's national hemorrhoid day quit arguing with me. So I'm done. And I'll just go ahead and move on to I like the fact that you use the word quorum and they were using the words hemorrhoid because both of those are kind of hard to spell. Once you give me you were telling me you were second runner up in the deck. cater local spelling bee in 1978 was it
yeah much like your impromptu declared hemorrhoid national day I was the only one who showed up and I still came in second.
Alright, so before we jump into hemorrhoids man what's going on with your life? What's going on with the Rieger household?
We are preparing to actually follow your footsteps we are about to renovate the house and sweeping changes about to move everything out today to the house the one that we just moved into so we're going to really just
is upgraded did you do the renovations? Like we did? Did you flood the house first? No choose to renovate it. We
tried to order a freeze and it didn't quite work out. But now in about a week and a half we get started should take about a month. I don't think it's nearly as extensive as what you're doing. But yeah, we'll update some stuff. Mack is back in the throes of offseason basketball. Murray's got her new company up and going gage is back out finishing up his first full year in college. So you know, they're doing well. How
about you? That's awesome. Oh, the brown households doing well. Lots of tennis going on. I think Lucas is playing on that ITF circuit and both Carl and Lucas have tournaments this weekend. So that's, that's cool. love to see everybody healthy out there able to do that kind of thing. You know, suffering through a little bit of a small neck injury that I now i i appreciate when you can get out there and play the sports that you want to play and have fun the way you want to have fun. So
definitely check that what episode was was Wade McKenna,
who early on very early. Yeah, that was back in the original students how we even did this that was back in the spoony studio.
So his episode was specifically on stem cells from his perspective. He's one of the world's leading experts.
You throw a little y'all bro. Yeah, I'll throw a little information out there. Right. So I injured my neck. And which is a really, really common injury and there's typical traditional medicine that people do. And one of our read one of our guests maybe guest number five or six
Wade McKenna,
he's Dr. Wade McKenna happens to be a world expert on stem cell. So I texted him and said, Get an act thing going on. I want to I don't want to play around with this. I went and made an appointment with him. Super cool guy. Super cool staff absolutely phenomenal out at trophy club. He spent a long time with me. And we went through everything and I'm going to do stem cells. We're gonna see what happens. I hear Joe Rogan talk about stem cells all the time. Yeah. And honestly, there's varying differences with how people respond to it. But if you're gonna do it, you go with the person who's been doing it the longest that does the most the person that that Rogan had on to talk about it was who Wade used to open up his Panama clinic with Neil Riordan. Yeah. Neil Riordan.
I'm pretty excited. And we won't spend too much time because this is about hemorrhoids. However, I think it's really cool on that episode, if you go back and check it, you'll learn that lots of stem cell failure is due to people not knowing how to even even the physicians themselves may not be using the best technique for sure there's there's
handling of stem cells doing things but he did on our podcast, he explained how he did research as a residence. He has been doing this autologous bone marrow use with stem cells, which nobody, which people are now just scratching the surface. He's been doing it for a long time and even had the Panama clinic where because the laws were a little bit more relaxed, and he could do some things that he had been doing research on. So I'm excited. So I'll keep everybody updated to what happens because if it if it goes well, and I imagine it really well, I'll be really excited that I can if I look 20 years younger, not that I took 10 bottles of Toronto at one time for the anti aging polyphenols. It's because those stem cells are kicking in but you know, we'll see. All right. This is kind of cool. I didn't even realize this. This threw me off. I'm really excited. Also, on episode 35, we interviewed ron paul Bundy. Oh yeah. Yep. generosity, generosity fee. So Eric and I, my family's out of town. Eric brought his family we went and we participated in one of generosity feeds, making campaigns or what is it? Yeah, we
did the food baking campaign where we packed all of the lunches for over I think that one was 11,000 meals that we did for kids who essentially just don't have a means to eat during the weekends. Yeah,
it's it's absolutely shocking. So what Ron on that on that episode explained, is that how many children rely on the school system to get the only meals that they get right? Even in like what you would consider affluent areas, there's going to be people that still need the assistance. And so what they do is they have teamed up with a nutritionist and stuff that devised a very, I guess you would call it healthy, nutrient rich meal. Definitely that is sustainable. And so what we did is we packed rice and beans and seasoning and everything's all they got to do is you just give it to the child when they walk out the door, right and then they get there. We're able to eat over the weekend until the school is able to do it. I think it's a phenomenal thing and the fact that they're in so demand so anyways, it's been a year dude. And party on purpose is up again and we're gonna be sponsors again. So last year we helped sponsor What what? what Tim power setup with Austin down and yeah, it was a year ago. We were just
wondering that pandemic stuff. That's
what we were doing the pandemic, everybody was like this weird thing that's happening what's going on? Yeah, it was one year ago. So we're going to be sponsors, again, a party on purpose. And I would like everybody to take a look at Episode 35. And just see the special work that generosity feeds is doing and robbing Ron club Andy and his passion for it is really amazing. helps a lot of kids who just don't just don't have a voice, and it's pretty awesome. Yeah, so we've had some really sciency shows recently, a couple maybe a little too sciency. And, you know, I'm feeling like we're not doing good justice to the other arts. I went to a liberal arts college. Did you know that?
I did know that. Yeah.
My mom taught there and I went there. Good. Old Danna college that no longer exists.
So you're not going to the reunion. So what what is it about that and it reminded you of your college?
Well, I was gonna jump into the science of hemorrhoids. Oh, it's really cool stuff. And I thought, Wait a minute. No, let's, let's bring in some other arts into this. Let's be a full spectrum podcast.
Okay. I'm excited.
I'd like to kick some history. Okay.
Let's find out.
Yeah, let's kick some history. So I was sitting there preparing for this. And I'm, specifically I want to talk about the history of the toilet.
Ooh, yeah. Okay.
I mean, we take it for granted. It's something that in other people's worlds, my favorite thing is when patients come to me and they're like, I don't want to talk about this. But no matter what they're gonna say, I'm like, I talk about this all the time. Yeah. No, you can't say anything, but I'm not gonna go. Oh, yeah. So specifically the toilet and quick trivia quiz. Okay, first documentation of a toilet. Do you have any idea of when it actually took place? When when we when historians believe that there may have been the beginnings of writing about a particular thing that could have been a toilet? I'm just going to guess because of irrigation? Maybe in Rome? I don't know. That was interesting. 3000 bc and Scotland?
No kidding.
Yeah, that's what they that's what archaeologists believe was the first plausible thing that is a toilet, but it wasn't written about and you're exactly right. You're exactly right on this, but they think that the true record didn't start taking place until 315. Ad by the Romans. Okay.
Make sense?
Yeah. And this is kind of fun. Okay, because it's gonna play into what we're going to talk about later. All right. But the toilets at that time, were actually public toilets. And they were situated like in a square next to each other. And it was considered a social event to go poop. Oh, with the community.
So could that be considered the first buches?
They sell beaver nuggets?
Oh, my gosh, that explains so much. Because I was looking at these archeological digs. And there was these little carvings of like this little beaver with a hat. And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, the Romans actually started the first buches. But anyways, so they build these, these toilets in public locations where people would gather, and they would socially poop next to each other, right? Men and women, just just kind of part of it. And then there would be a stick attached to your toilet with a sponge on the end with which you would clean yourself.
Hopefully, you're
the first No, yeah, well, hopefully you are. But you're never the first because once it's there, it stays. And then you dip it in water and shake it off. And some historians believe that that is the origin of I'm not making this up of getting the wrong end of the stick. Wow. Well, trivia for you.
Yeah, I never knew what was the right end of the stick was thrown out. That's a really good point.
So if you're a private pooper, and Tim poop in public, remember that Romans would rather be like, Hey, I'm having a dinner party and a pooping party. So let's all eat and then we will go gather in the pooping room together and use the sponge that we've others have used 1000s of times,
the Romans had a lot of ideas, wrestling
things so thank goodness, during the medieval times, people became way more dignified, I mean, way more dignified. Sure. So they started pooping in private in a pot. Okay, which and then they would poop in their pot and then they would go to the window and they would throw it out on the street.
How pleasant
that's what they were doing. Yeah. So, yeah, the medieval times they would throw the contents out there. And then in 1560s, sir john Harrington developed the first flush toilet a pipe that went straight down john Harrington, where john Well, this is funny because sadly his invention would go ignored for 200 years. Wow. That's like one of those things where you're like, you invent something that is really novel and exciting. Yeah, they didn't have social media back then try and promote it. You can take out Facebook ads and know that so john was out there, here, you here, you can poop over here. And, you know, it was documented that he did it. But then in 1775, so 200 years later, Alexander Cummings took his idea put an S shape at the bottom it was a pipe Yeah, and then that controlled the fumes that were coming back out Sure. Which made a world of difference and POW it took off and I mean, it literally took off the poop took off unfortunately, Alexander Cummings didn't think it through too far because then it just went through an S shape and then into a pit. Okay in and so in 1848 everybody was using these toilets and Britain had to Britain actually required that homes be built with an ash room a s h Okay, not bathroom ashra Ashram Okay, where the waste would be collected in a pile of ash. And who knows? If you think you have a bad job where night soil men that was the night soil night soil man would come by and empty your ash room
say that fast.
can't apply for that job. So tell me Eric, what makes you qualified to be in Knight soil man,
I'm good at nothing else.
Who takes that job? So if you're if you're upset about your job, remember, you could have been paid Knight's oil man. And then of course the one that everybody remembers here. And so you this lead up to it was funny because I always thought this guy invented in 1861, a guy named Thomas crapper patented a series of toilets and then the whole expansion on plumbing took off and this is what you now have in your home you sit in your home. I bring this up because I don't really think that we can talk about hemorrhoids without on national hemorrhoids. I'm going to keep referring to this as national hemorrhoids. I don't think we can talk about hemorrhoids on national hemorrhoid day without discussing toilets because it all plays into it. Okay, so that's my history lesson for you. I don't think we've ever done history before.
Not well not about toilets. No, not quite like that. That's interesting. I actually always thought that with crappers first name was john. I didn't know as Thomas crapper. That's funny.
Yeah,
but it makes sense. No, no, you did say that. But the earlier the first guy was john Harrington. I guess they just overtime they kind of morph those two together. I think it's pretty
Thomas crapper. Funny. Yeah. Isn't that interesting? I'm gonna head to the john. Yeah. Take a crap. You're right. Right there.
Yeah, there.
There it is. That's how you want second place indicator spelling. Alright, so now back to the original question. Can younger people get him?
Absolutely.
So this is really intriguing. I went down some rabbit holes on this one. So as it turns out, recent data is showing that there is a significant increase in hemorrhoids with late Generation Z and millennials. Okay. And the real question is why? Me? There's
only because we've, we've talked about that long term sitting, can do that there must be something that's drawing people to either sit more frequently or more importantly, sit longer.
What do you think you are? 100%? Correct. On a prior episode, we did discuss a funny study. We thought it was kind of funny. We're in 2012. They did a survey in 2012. Right? 75% of the people admitted to taking their smartphone into the bathroom, the other 25 are lying about it. And then Verizon saw that as an opportunity. And they did their own study. And granted, it's from Verizon, June 2015 90% of the people admitted to it.
Well, they know where yours they probably definitely know.
Yeah, and there's an actual study ongoing right now. It started in 2018. I looked it up on clinical trials.gov where they are looking into the actual correlation to make it more scientific, interesting. And what they're saying is that as we continue to move forward, Generation Z, taking the phone into the restroom is basically built into the DNA. So I did I did a survey this morning, and I took a poll of Generation Z people around me now. Yeah, 100% of them said yes. 100% Use a phone. I believe that other estimates, maybe other regions, not in my area where 95%. But 100% of the Gen Z people that I interviewed, right said that they use their phone that way. So
this is important, because I think what we need to ask you is how many people did you ask my son? There's wine.
But that is 100%. It's a 100%. Yeah. So that's just shows to make sure that you look at the actual study design and data whenever something like this all the time, it's all the more time. So necessarily, the podcast is sponsored by these apps. But my medical practice is sponsored by these apps. Yeah, so I would like to give a shout out for our sponsors, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, tick tock. Yeah, somehow Reddit got left off, but I believe read, it should be on there. So there's all these articles now talking about this. And there's certainly lots of opinion pieces. And there's lots of blogs and stuff where they're interviewing colorectal surgeons and gastroenterologist and asking their opinions. And they what they actually talk about is that it's probably not about the app. It's more about the time sitting on the toilet. And I believe that's part of it. And that's what I want to get into with this guy. Because I believe that there's more going on than that. And I have a theory as to why those apps in particular, cause more damage. You'll notice it like candy crush isn't on there and things like that. When people really spend time they tend to go to those apps and I'm going to explain that later. Okay, so let's start with some basics. Alright. Alright, you fire questions. And well, let's talk you know, just as much about this topic, as I do. So let's just say what are hemorrhoids?
It's when vessels of belief can becoming gorged people will probably notice them when they are external. But there are external internal hemorrhoids, you'll probably want to delineate between the two of those typically, oh, it's the number one reason that people notice bleeding, rectal bleeding, correct. They can become painful at different things like that. I don't remember how many vessels it is, can become a gorge two or three, typically, and, but if caught early enough, can be treated by a gastroenterologist and pretty much eliminated.
Yeah. 100%. So it is a natural collection of veins. And I remember talking to a colorectal surgeon, I use all the time, Dr. Macaluso, and he goes, Hey, keep in mind that this is an arterial venous connection also. And I only say this because this reminds me of a story what early on in my career, like really early on I was in the hospital, I get called to go see an ICU patient that was crashing, absolutely crashing cirrhotic patient that was crashing, and blood was shooting out of this person's butt. And they were just running bags, and his pressure just kept dropping. He's like, Hey, we can't we have no time to wait, you got to come in here. It's probably variceal his massive bleeding. I scope him up top. totally clean. No viruses. Yeah. And I'm like, well, and he's still bleeding. And I'm like, either he decompressed them. So I'm like, we had an emergency call and flip them around. And this is all bedside and I'm early on. So if what I mean by that is I guess over time, you start seeing more and you kind of, you know, shrug stuff off and go another one of these this was like, out of left field. Like on a like a Monday afternoon. They're like you need to cancel clinic and go to the ICU right now. And so I, I end up scoping this person in blood is throughout the entire colon. And I'm like, I can't find the source. I can't find the source. I'm coming back. And there, I come back. And I retroflex this is before I started treating hemorrhoids. And I'm like, the rectum is just feeling full of blood. Uh huh. And I I said call. Like, I apologize, forgot his name down so many years ago, but I said, Call this guy get them on the phone. He's a colorectal surgeon that had just left the university and had come over and was joined the group that Dr. Macaluso was at. And so I said, Man, I got this guy, whatever he goes, this could be a massive hemorrhoidal bleed. People forget that. It's an arteriovenous connection connection. Yeah. And he's like, Are you comfortable banding it I'm like, I've never done it. And he goes, just treat it like it's a virus. Like it's a variceal bleed. I'm like, okay, anyone describe what a virus sees is their sees when people have liver failure. pressure builds up and actually when the blood tries to go to the liver, it backs up, fills up and then it the spleen gets big, the spleen fills up and then you end up shunting blood. It's all applying up to the gastro esophageal veins. These come up this way. And those veins can dilate and they can actually pop. Oh, yeah. And unfortunately, people will bleed a ton when they actually have that. And so what we do is we go down with the camera and then we do a rubber band ligation on the various hillbillies. So at this point, he's like, I'm gonna come over and see what's going on. And I loaded up a banner. I put one band, and it's like a scene from a movie with the clouds this. Birds start chirping blood pressure comes up one band and I was like, Wow. So that's so although they can be a nuisance in very, very, very rare circumstances, they can be like a really big deal. And that particular time it was a really big deal. Yeah, it's a big deal. So, yes, collection of veins and they weren't like shock absorbers. So all of us have hemorrhoids. If you don't have hemorrhoids. You're an alien. Yeah. Or Ilan musk.
He lives Ilan.
I don't know. Yeah, I'm thinking he doesn't have them. He's, he's not of this world. He's not of this world. So and they look like shock absorbers. But when you build up too much pressure, then they will fill up. And they're it's a it's a vein that can actually stretch. Yeah. And if too much pressure builds up, then it goes into the extra hemorrhoids, then the extra hemorrhoids get big. And that's when people really notice them because they hurt because there's a line called the dentate line, where you have pain fibers below it. No pain fibers above it. So frequently, I'll get people that will come in when they have an external thing. Yeah. And then we realize well, it's the internal ones feeding the external so if you've ever had an external hemorrhoid it's probably because your internal your internal hemorrhoids have grown and it's created a diversion for the pressure over there. And it hurts bad over there. And you're right, they can bleed edge pain thrombose. incidence, how many people do you think have issues with hemorrhoids?
I don't know. How many people I've got no idea. It seems like it seems like it's it's really often for those that we see in our line of work, but that you know, that's that's a kind of a skewed sample size.
is a little bit skewed. Yeah.
I don't know. I'm just gonna throw a number out there cuz I really have no idea. One in more than 20. I don't know.
- Okay.
I have no idea. It's probably bigger than that.
Well, this is interesting, because on up to date, which is supposed to be the most up to date thing that I subscribe to I pay service to the incident is a study show that up to 14% of us people had hemorrhoid issues. And that seemed really small. And I realized that I'm skewed on this. And then I started researching more. I went and found that study, it was done in 1989. Wow. The only study that was published on the incidence of true hemorrhoids was done in 1989. Now looking back and other studies where people are mentioning them on colonoscopies and such Yeah, it's way more than that more recent data is that one in three people have issues and that incidence is going up. That's one in three people seeking the care of a doctor interesting. And then I started looking at the number of people that are or the amount of money that's being spent in over the counter medications. It's in the hundreds of millions. So it's gotta be way it's gonna be even more than one in three. I would even say that most people at some point in today's society may have a hemorrhoid issue even if they don't realize that it's a hemorrhoid issue.
Yeah, wow. Yeah, I was I was off by at least three to five fold. They're
not close. So like but but you're exactly right. In my world. Everyone has a hemorrhoid. Yeah,
I feel like I've rescued because we see, dude.
It's like that. That time in Nebraska when I was running the the free STD clinic. And I got interviewed. They're like, how many people have committee? I'm like, all of them. All of them. Everybody does.
I was skewed. I didn't realize that there's I'm wearing my silver x suit.
So I am a hemorrhoid doctor or I treat hemorrhoids. So everybody seems to have it right. Or at least they funnel to me. I probably should remember that time and I did that free STD clinic. But anyways, alright, so why did I even bring up him? Why did I even bring up toilets? In the beginning, when we're talking about hemorrhoids?
Oh, because we're sitting. And on top of that, not only are we sitting, I know this, we're straining, we're gonna applying pressure. So applying pressure sitting for longer. I think when you're reading through your statistics, it sounds to me like the incidence is rising. So now we're going to start looking at what could potentially make us be sitting longer. In a spot where we are increasing our pressure,
we think 100%. So what people don't realize is, and it's funny, because this particular patient asked, Do you think that we're seeing more hemorrhoids because of COVID? Because people are sitting instead of? And yes, and then I started thinking about it. I was like, but why is the toilet different? Like how does this support, there's no support hole. So what you've done is they've put a hole there so that the your rectum is now lower, you form a king, the blood pools there And sure, which is why sitting on a toilet scrolling through your abs is one of the reasons why more blood can pool in that area.
Okay, so there was some context around that. So essentially sitting on the toilet seat is actually more conducive to forming hemorrhoids more rapidly than just sitting
somewhere flat. Correct. Okay. And then this is one of the things when we talk about the evolution of the, of the toilet. I was really funny because I was googling this. And then what came up was a blog that I wrote in 2011. About the angle of dedication. Yeah, angle that we poop at our Western toilets, actually are not conducive to proving right. And one of my biggest pet peeves is in the older population. They make the toilets very high, so that they can get off of it easy the wrong way to go. Exact wrong way to go. Because as you change from a sitting to a squatting position, yeah, squatting is how we're actually supposed to be moving. Yeah. Which is why if you go to Middle East, certain Asian countries, the toilets are on the ground. Yeah, that's really the way that you should be. Yeah. And they did a study, the blog that I wrote was a Japanese study where they took med students which is I just thought it was a funny study. And they did they put barium paste in these med students. And then they made them poop. multiple different angles. Yeah. So it was like, you're like, there's there's labs that do this where there's like an audience watching and you just kind of like I mean, that's just yeah, we're
the modern day ash. shovelers are
the descendants of the ash, soil man. What am I call night soil?
Well, people really sure it's not a job I'm going for No,
it's not but certainly the descendents night soil man.
They do now.
Dr. Satish Rao who runs the anal rectal lab, and I got in Georgia, he's probably gonna look this up and go, great, great, great. Night soil man. You can read some of the work that he's done on this Dr. Rouse done some most of the work on the anal rectal movement. I remember watching him in a lecture and he showed his lab which is a barium toilet. And then our panel of people that watch on a large screen as a cameras there. And he said john, unfortunately designed it a little bit wrong shift and walk up a couple steps and sometimes people they can't hold the Wow. Because the whole time I mean, I'm just like watching this as a gastroenterologist. I'm like, that is a profoundly invasive thing. When you go I'm gonna go to the doctor, what are you gonna do? I'm gonna I'm gonna go poop in front of an audience. Yes,
Ma'am, I'm missing my appointment.
Sir, you're 15 minutes late, we're gonna have to reschedule. Oh, shoot. So anyways, squatting is the best. So toilets contribute to it in its own right. Sure. And it's called the angle of dedication. Basically, you have a muscle that wraps around when you stand. It's there so that it kinks it. So that when you're walking around, you have several safeguards. So you don't put yourself right. Internal sphincter, external sphincter and even this thing. And that thing is always tight. The people retells muscles, so as you sit, the angle becomes so as it's, when you're standing, the muscles will tighten. And as you sit, the muscle relaxes, and then it allows for a straighter, straighter shot. Yeah. So that's one of the reasons the toilets are an important part. And then if you spend more time in it, so if you're wondering, the best way to poop, lift your knees up. squatty potty style. Oh, it's fine. Yeah, it's a product, but you can do it with anything, get your knees up above your hips lean slightly forward. And that's the best way to poop. So let's talk about prevention of hemorrhoids.
Well, since we were talking about toilet seat whole while ago, I was going to make sure you weren't going to say you should just poop on a flat board. So I'm glad that wasn't one of the solutions. Just sounds incredibly messy. So prevention, find things when number one probably find a way to to consume the foods that allow you to make good stool to come out. Be certain that you're not doing activities that make you want to stay on a toilet longer, walk around smoking, the new sitting.
Oh, explain that real quick. smoking's the new settings you through that our settings in settings, the new smoking, sorry, setting, sitting sitting, the new smoking
settings, the new smoking, there was a there's been a handful of different studies, but most recently, I think it was almost two years ago, there was a study where they showed that the comorbidities that people can develop over time was commensurate with how many hours of a day they were sitting and as people begin to sit longer and longer. throughout the day. They had more incidents of obesity, hypertension, just on and on die, diabetes. I can't remember what else lifespan, lifespan latwon lifespan and lifespan if ik quality of life,
the quality of life so the your likelihood of dying is equivalent. If used a certain amount of hours a day is equivalent to smoking like a pack a day. Yeah. For like 30 years.
Yep. Something like that. Yeah.
That's wild. Yeah. So
any and actually, they say that if you did that routinely, you actually couldn't overcome it through rigorous exercise. That's right. Yes. It was almost like there wasn't a way to combat the long sedentary periods of the day or something like that.
I remember exactly. You're making me Can you hold on the podcast? Well, I
mean, podcasts aren't two hours anymore.
We read that study. Back in the early days, Eric and I were doing marathon podcasts were like Joe Rogan gets that many views with three hours. Let's do six hours. Yeah,
I decided I didn't want to be a smoker.
So you're exactly right. Don't sit too long on a toilet. If you're sitting there for a very long time, then that's just gonna lead to hemorrhoids. And what you're talking about proper diet. So eating fiber, actually 20 to 30 grams of fiber. just published a blog yesterday, on getting enough fiber does have this Yeah. So go to Kenneth Brown, or go to Kenneth Brown, MD. com. You can see these you can see this blog. But basically, it's how to get 20 to 30 grams of fiber and soluble insoluble. The distinction. The distinction is, it's To me, it's a lot of overlap a lot of gray, I think you need both. Basically, if you're eating your veggies, in having some fruit, you're probably you're probably pretty good and getting your fiber. Yeah. So 20 to 30 grams. And then the question that everyone's gonna ask is, well, are there any supplements that I can take for this?
supplements for hemorrhoids, for hemorrhoids? I think there is one key ingredient within artron to that has research behind it and the horse just not
Yeah, so wild. So I just assumed that there would be like five or six that have. So I signed up to examine calm, shout out to them, because they actually go through the effort of doing everything research backed, and they have what's called a human matrix panel, where you can see what the human studies are. Alright, so it's the human matrix. So there's, there may be animal studies. And shockingly, the only one that showed any evidence of decreasing hemorrhoids was horse chestnut, or the extract and horse chestnut called asen. And I'll read exactly what the the one study that actually that they referenced on this is that supplementation of three times a day of horse chestnut, 40 milligrams asen, for over the course of a day in a short period of time with somebody with hemorrhoids was associated with this significant reduction in symptoms, bleeding and improvement in endoscopic evaluation. I didn't even know this. And what they showed is that there's a 32 response in the placebo arm, but an 82 response 82% response in the arm that actually got the horse chestnut, and most benefits were apparent within six days. So it's not like you have to take it forever. Wow. Now, what's really interesting is when we're talking about something like I'll try and steal that may help you go to the bathroom easier, and it's got a horse chestnut in it. I haven't even been having my hemorrhoids. Patients take it because I just really kind of use it for the polyphenol effect on those that do not have bloating. And if you have bloating, I'm gonna recommend it. Right. But now we're looking at a whole new aspect here of horse Jessa being for him, but
yeah, I remember when you first found that study, it was just kind of a eureka moment. I, I didn't know that.
Yeah. So now speaking of eureka moment, here's mine about this topic. So every other colorectal surgeon and gastroenterologist on all these different blogs or interviews or TV spots and stuff like that. They were there said, well, it's not really the phone that's doing it. It's just the time on the toilet. I want to disagree with that a little bit. And I'm gonna I'm gonna see if you agree cuz this is purely theoretical here. But there's something called pelvic floor dyskinesia, okay? pelvic floor dyskinesia is when the muscles down below. They are not responding the way that you want them to respond. Okay? It's very common in women who have had babies. And so I'll bring people in. And it's typical of the person that says, I get the urge, but I feel like I've not fully evacuated or it takes way too long to get the stool out. Yeah. And that's when I have my discussion about squatty potty and, and lifting your knees up above and leaning forward, making sure there's enough fiber the fiber will bind the stool together so that hopefully, it brings moisture in along with binding it so that it all comes on at once. The typical person that has something like this as they struggle to go and when they go to the restroom, it's small, uneventful stores, you know, they talk about it being just like small rattle millet, rabbit pellets, things like that. So now knowing that pelvic floor dyskinesia is associated with some emotional response, because it's muscles they tense up. And they believe that they are relaxing the muscles when in reality, they're tensing them. So when I examine somebody, I'll go, can you relax your anus for me? And they'll frequently, many times can't do it. I'll be like, contract your anus for me. And they'll squeeze their butt cheeks, but the anus doesn't contract, right? And then when I say try and expel my finger, like you're having a bowel movement, everything clamps down. And I'm like, does this and then I can get them to relax. And that's what Satish Rouse Dr. Satish Rao's whole lab works on is this and there's Laureen forgot her last name. lorien is a physical therapist that specializes in only this, and I spend a lot of patients so we're gonna have her on the podcast at one time to really deep dive into this one top pelvic floor experience, pelvic floor expert. And yeah, because it's not just deputation, it can, it can lead to dyspareunia, which is pain during intercourse, it can lead to spasms in the bladder called
status, it can lead to a lot of other things and that without with the poor, and that could be way off here poor pelvic floor tone can lead to the need for like bladder slings and stuff like that, for
sure. All of that over time leads to that. So the more you keep doing this, that's what a rectal seal is. Yeah, that's what prolapse happens from and other things. So it's not something that if you're having these issues, so if you're like the twin, mid 20 year old that's doing this, we got to correct these things now, because if you continue to let this happen over time, the muscles start relaxing the nerves start thinking it's normal. And then that happens. So my theory is this. Number one, you're on these particular apps, okay, these apps can be associated with an emotional trigger shares all imagine going into the bathroom sitting down, you hit Facebook, you're trying to go poop, and you realize that you weren't invited to a dinner party, a party. Yeah. And then you start going on, you start scrolling through the pictures. And it's emotionally upsetting. you hop on Instagram and see a very, or Twitter and see a very angry political posts that get you riled up. As you do this, your sympathetic tone goes up, which is the fight or flight, and you will tend to contract muscles. So I would love to do a study on that, in particular, like you get to use your phone in the bathroom, but you can only I'm just I'm have a great idea. We're gonna hold on and I need your help on that. Okay. Okay. So basically, these particular apps in general, put you on the toilet longer, but then you can actually become emotionally invested in what you're looking at. I think you and I should design an app. Okay. How would you do it?
probably find something that would make me completely relax. And well, actually, we we know people who have technology to have scientifically backed data to to help one relax, and possibly utilize a mobile device.
Yeah, we need a bit. So you're about brain.fm? Yeah, yeah. Dan Clark CEO. Interesting, very interesting. Imagine having we need to set the brain.fm has a patented technology, which is called neural phase locking, where and I'm going to, we've talked to their PhD. Oh, yeah, super smart. And I'm not going to pretend to explain it. But basically, you can increase the activity in a certain part of your brain so that you can focus when you want to focus Mack and sleep when you want to sleep. You can relax, chill,
anti anxiety, yeah, anti
anxiety. We got to sit with him and be like, let's team up.
awesome idea.
Let's do a pooping app where we're going to stimulate an area and then we'll just we'll combine that with the headspace guy. Have you ever listened to headspace?
Is that the guy from New Zealand or Australia?
Yeah, it's huge. headspace is huge. Yeah, you know. Hi. Welcome back.
Yeah, yeah,
we're gonna talk today about emotional stress it just hot Welcome back. I see that you're on the loo.
Don't stay here too long.
I'm going to talk you through this. Now make sure your knees are up. And you are leaning slightly forward. Please know while this app is running, no other apps can be opened.
You are stuck here until you're finished.
And at at a certain amount, you will be required to stand up walk around. And then we'll make it so that the only way to turn it off is the sound of a flushing toilet.
Yeah. Then that actually is not a terrible idea. Not
a terrible idea at all.
I'll tell you what was funny though. I got to confess some because I was laughing a little bit earlier before you got to that. In case y'all don't know, this guy, and I hardly ever been This guy does not use social media apps and watching you struggle for what people are looking for in Twitter. And what else did you mentioned Facebook and Instagram. That was awesome. He has no idea what makes you mad when you get on those apps. You're trying to find out.
But all I know is every day I get on my MySpace page, and it's just blank. I don't know why
people don't like me, man, you treat your your laptop like a Solitaire machine.
I actually believe that. Well, fortunately, I'm a total nerd. So I would rather actually read some journal articles. Yeah, no, totally.
Yeah. 100%.
Yeah. And I mean, shout out to everybody that's crushing it out there. Like, you know, Tony yuans. A friend and his Instagram is just chilling. Well, he's,
he's actually on it.
Yeah. He's doing a good job with that. Yeah. And I admire that. Yes. That's awesome. But yeah, but anyways, I think we should do it. We should get into the app business and figure out how to and obviously we can't afford the headspace guy at this point. But I think what how is your accent? Let's hear
no, now it's not very good. I would have to think about the
always starts with Welcome back. Yeah. And it's really cool. very soothing. Welcome back.
Very rarely get described with a calling voice. Eric is not really what happened.
You were starting to sound like the NPR SNL episode of Alec Baldwin.
That's the only thing I do.
Alright, so anyways, that's that's my theory, pelvic floor dyskinesia. So if you've ever been on the toilet and realize that you're looking at something that may be emotionally may be an emotional trigger, that may be causing some of the issues. Yes, that's my theory. And that's why I think that the advent of the smartphone is doing that. So now treatment, other than some prevention, so treatment, there's lots of treatment out there. That is a whole separate episode unto itself. Yeah, sure. And to do it justice, we will bring some serious experts in here that do like like a colorectal surgeon that does surgery and understands the anatomy inside and out. But the treatment that I do, that's a whole separate episode, of course, but basically, if you have them, speak with your doctor, I want to say one thing for sure. If you see rectal bleeding, it is never, never, never, ever, ever normal. Even if you're saying, Oh, it's probably just hemorrhoids. Now you need to have it checked out no matter what. Yeah, and as always, our little disclaimer is that this is a medical show, but I'm not your doctor, if you have anything, anything at all that you're concerned about, please discuss it with your doctor. And if this gets one person to go in and talk to their doctor about it, and we can remove a polyp or or you can prevent colon cancer. Yeah, that is a huge deal. And if it is hemorrhoids, you want to get them treated early before they become too big. Because the reality is that hemorrhoids come in different stages. Yeah, so in internal hemorrhoids, they're one through four. So internal hemorrhoids grade one, they pop up, they can bleed some times. But you don't really notice hole at grade two, when you go to the bathroom, they pop out. So frequently, patients will come to me and they're like, I felt something that I was going to the bathroom. And now I don't grade two hemorrhoids, they pop out spontaneously because you're in that position. And once the pressure is relieved, it goes back in grade three, you have to manually reduce it. And grade four, they stay out all the time. So if you're having any of this, if you're having any symptoms like that, the sooner you get it treated, the more likely you do not need surgery surgery, trying to avoid surgery at essentially all costs. The type of treatment I do is called is a modified banding procedure. So if you talk to your parents, and they say oh, I had hemorrhoid banding done, it hurt really bad. It's come a long way and the old way of doing it was to grab the hemorrhoid itself plays a rubber band and Remember when I said earlier that there's that dentate line below it is pain above it is no pain. The way that this works is the type of banding that I do is the reagan ligation right go up above where the dentate line is place a rubber band above the hemorrhoid. And the reason why is so that the vein that is supplying it, you actually create a little scar and it decreases the blood flow. So it isn't so much cutting out the hemorrhoid. It's just over time getting it to calm down. And I treat a lot of these. It's one of my favorite things to do because I get such good response from patients in a very quick amount of time where you do it, they come back and they're like, wow, I'm already better. That's fantastic. It is the safest, least invasive and most effective way to treat these symptomatic hemorrhoids. I got some videos on this. You can go to Kenneth Brown, MD calm and take a look. I'm a big big proponent, but mostly if you're having any symptoms, go talk to your doctor, get your colonoscopy done. We did a whole episode on colon cancer. Definitely. And so that's the really important thing.
random question and maybe this will help someone if you're sitting on the fence. What is the possibility or probability that a hemorrhoid will just suddenly resolve itself?
So that is a great question. Because remember, in the very beginning was said that they are shock absorbers. Yep. So they can actually increase in decrease. And there's a bunch of risk factors for hemorrhoids sitting a long time. pregnancy is one of them. So I have a lot of women that will say, Well, I got them with my first child, I got them with my second child, and then they and then they go away, because the pressure is relieved, and they can do this. People that modify their diet, they're like, it was really bad. But then I changed my diet, I increased a lot of fiber, and there is a chance that they can go away. So we always recommend first line is to try to do the preventative stuff. Let's change your diet. Let's change your lifestyle with the toilet. And if it doesn't get better and continues, and then we can actually treat them so yes, they can go away. And I think by the time this is why I think that the incidence is really underreported. Yeah. Because by the time somebody actually comes to me, it's never like, Oh, this this happened once a week ago. It's always like, all right, I've been dealing with these for a long time. They seem to keep getting worse. Because of my hobbies. I like to work out jujitsu I get a lot of people that strain a whole lot. It's just the nature of it because when you're straining a whole lot you're gonna have that I get a lot of you know, people that are in vigorous jobs that do that so it's it can happen any age, any lifestyle it can happen some of this is genetic also. So we do know that there is a genetic component where whether it's the elasticity of the veins or not that's all kind of been figured out but so yes, they can go away so by lifestyle modification, maybe even you know, supplementation according to the one study unexamined calm did help.
Yeah. Interesting. That's a lot of information about hemorrhoids well, and we never got to it. We
have spell hemorrhoid. Oh, let's see if we can do this is National hemorrhoid day and we are at the National hemorrhoid day spelling bee with reigning runner up Eric Rieger.
were no first place participant in that particular spelling the reigning runner up. He mm r h Lidy All right.
Let's do it in true spelling bee format.
So hemorrhoid hemorrhoid can you use them to sentence
my hemorrhoids are killing me today. hemorrhoids
go origin
of the Spanish origin the emulator IDs which by the way, this is really important we're gonna have to translate everything ever since our Silvia podcasts were huge in Spain right now. Huge Yeah, no toy these Mr. Ortiz? Okay. him Roy which I think would be Latin in origin.
It's gotta be hemorrhoid h MMR. h od?
Yeah, no, he m o r. Every time I do every time that's what made you lose back in 1978. No,
that's not what made me lose.
So anyways, I'm trying to make light of something that a lot of people are embarrassed to talk about. That was kind of the goal of today's podcast, but it's super important and easy to fix. so common that now we have 20 year olds coming in worried that they're abnormal and we've got very fit people thinking that's abnormal and it's it's really just something that's part of our society now and treating it and getting it treated early is probably the key to this.
Definitely. Well get yourself checked if you see any anal or bleeding when you wipe etc.
See the toilet go view so there's a few other diseases that cause bleeding and one of my favorites is ulcerative proctitis ulcerative colitis, I'm a big inflammatory bowel disease fan. We're working on some stuff for our inflammatory bowel disease patients. In the meantime, if you suffer from any bloating or change in bowel habits, remember artron to go to artron to calm and take a look at that now that you realize that there's horse chest in there right there on the label and you have some hemorrhoids I'd be curious to see if it affects them according to this one study and of course KB MD health calm for CBD and broccoli, the biohack combo of artron to CBD and broccoli.
For our for on camera like that.
Oh yeah, probably not.
Yeah. So this is broccoli. There we go.
We did a whole episode with the founder of broccoli and their PhD. I just love it when there's like minded people that are sciency and everything and so we'll say I don't know. Let me know if you take all three and your hemorrhoids you better be curious to see.
Absolutely. Well, that's gonna do it for episode number 53. Thank you all so much for joining us please like and share. And of course if you know anybody who suffers from hemorrhoids or you do Reach out to your gastroenterologist or your health care provider and they can point you in the right direction.
Now if you're in the neighborhood, I'd be happy to talk to you.
Alright, take care
Hello Gut Check Project fans. Welcome to Gut Check Project and KBMD health family. I'm Eric Rieger here with my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. We have another special show.
We just keep we just keep outdoing ourselves with smart people. I'm like I normally I've well I'm becoming very comfortable being the stupidest person on these zoom calls right now this is like this is the new norm, me being the absolute dumbest person on the screen right now.
If you're the well, that's thank you. That's really weird. And and if you're the dumbest, then this is gonna be a really, really intelligent show. So today, Episode Number 52. We have a special guest. This is Dr. Charlene Van Buiten. She is an Assistant Professor of food science and Human Nutrition at Colorado State University. Hello, Charlene. How are you doing today?
I'm doing well. How are you guys
Doing great. We're doing great. I'm not going to introduce the paperwork that we're going to get into. But what I am interested...before we get into some incredible information about your research around celiac disease, and how essentially people can stave off long term inflammation. We always like to get to know a little bit about you. But we did print off your resume. And it looks to me like from all of the stuff that you do in the CV, that you started sometime in the womb getting things done.
So you've been like publishing papers in utero somehow.
Yeah, yeah. It's it's a really rare skill. So.
So where are you? Where do you Where are you from originally?
Originally I'm from Connecticut, grew up there. And then did my bachelor's degree at University of Connecticut in nutrition.
Nice. And how long have you been at Colorado State?
I've been at Colorado State about a year and a half now. So I got about six good months before everything shut down. Still happy to be here. It's a nice place to be locked down in at least.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. The northern part of Colorado. It's it's definitely beautiful up there. So before you read Colorado State, let's see where else you were a postdoctoral fellow, obviously. And then, is there any other stops along the way that really leapt out to you and ended up pushing you into Colorado State to do you know, good nutrition for human?
Um, yeah, I would say probably the most important step in my whole academic journey was at Penn State where I did my PhD in food science. That's kind of where all of the research that we'll talk about today was really conceived. It was just kind of a one off idea that my PhD advisor and I had just one day, you know, oh, what if we looked at interactions between gluten and tannins, and then, you know, I kind of went back to my office, first year PhD student really excited. And all of a sudden, it was like all of these ideas just in terms of the chemical interactions and what this means for nutrition just designed this whole project. And in a really rare case of circumstances, everything I had designed in my first year of my PhD ended up being what I eventually did over the course of the next five years. I don't think anybody is ever that lucky. Yeah, and the project turned into what you all were able to read before inviting me here.
We will definitely dive deep into that. But I'm really curious. So I've, we have the CV here that shows your academic pursuit. I want to know why Charlene, Dr. Charlene, Dr. Charlene decided to do the study of food science and nutrition. Let's just start from there. And then I get the passion once you've latched on to something, but I'm always curious how people find their way like, like, how you how you got there.
Yeah, I think I discovered Food Science a little earlier than the average person. Most people will get into it in college, having followed a path of chemistry or biochemistry, and then realizing they can apply all of these concepts to food. But I actually was in the Future Farmers of America when I was in high school. And I thought that I wanted to be a vet, and then realize that I was not really into like blood or sick animals or anything. And one of my teachers was like, we have this competition. It's called food science. you design a food product, you talk about safety and everything. And I was sure sounds cool. And the first day that I met with that team for this competition, we got a textbook chapter on canning. And I was reading about canning, and I was like, I was really interesting. Like, if you can something it'll last a really long time. Or if it's done incorrectly, it can be so dangerous that it can kill you. Kind of dichotomy there. I was like, food science is crazy. And just from there was like obsessed with it. And, yeah, I was for nutrition, grad school for food science.
This kind of reminds me of the whole mycology thing that we were talking about before. Where like you might find a brave food canner and you might find an old food canner but you won't find them in the same person. I'm going to just dabble in some aggressive food canning and see what happens. They don't walk around anymore. We were we have Paul Paul Stamets was talking about that. And then the other mycologists, we've talked to mycologists that actually discuss that they feel the same way where it's like, look, you can have a mushroom that will save you. But if you prepare it wrong, or eat the wrong one, you're gonna die. If you have food canning, you can have food forever. But if you do it wrong, you can die. Well, that is awesome. So reading your article, or reading your paper, which is a review of your thesis, which tells me that you know this essentially better than anybody in the entire world because you did a thesis on something that I have been searching for for a very, very, very long time. I developed Atrantil to help people with bloating and irritable bowel syndrome. And then we started learning I late started learning about these effects of polyphenols came across your article, your review, which is titled gliadin sequestration as a novel therapy for celiac disease, a prospective application for polyphenols. This is the thing that really I've been looking for for a long time, we've known the benefits of polyphenols, but you're the first person that has been able to explain why I'm gluten sensitive. And once I start, once I started taking Atrantil whenever I would eat gluten, I didn't have issues, and I really couldn't explain it. We've had patients that say, when I, you know, when I take these large polyphenolic compounds that are in Atrantil, I can eat wheat. Why is it I didn't know I couldn't actually say from a molecular reason. And then I came across your paper. And this is absolutely fantastic. It's 32 pages of incredible material. And 185 references my goodness, you put some work into this congratulations on putting together what I think is the most comprehension review of polyphenols in the setting of celiac disease. So once again, if anybody listened to this, know somebody that has celiac disease, or has a family member, or has celiac themselves, this is something that really we need to share as a community. We need to get this out there and your work is really pivotal to explain the science, which is so cool. So let's jump into it. Because it's awesome.
Yeah, I don't even know where to start. Because you you described multiple different mechanisms of action on why polyphenols begin to work. So what drove you to to put these two associations together? Why celiac disease and why polyphenols?
So at the time that we came up with this project, I had recently joined my graduate advisor Ryan Elias at Penn State, I joined his lab, and he was doing a lot of work on wine quality. So as a food chemist, you know, we're looking at oxidation of polyphenols, how that can affect wine astringency, etc. And so I was, you know, showed up to grad school thinking I was going to work on wine. And then we found these papers that were studying protein polyphenol interactions using tannic acid with peanut allergens. And so that was an interesting paper doing a little bit more reading, thinking about that. And then thinking about, you know, still wine. And I came across these papers that were using gluten as a fining agent and red wine. So fining is the interaction between polyphenols and wine and a protein that will actually precipitate those polyphenols and take them out of wine to kind of soften the mouthfeel. And so I saw that and knowing that gluten is this immunostimulatory protein, I was like, why are they doing this? That seems crazy to me, and Is it hurting people and you know, it's not labeled, because it's something that's not technically in the product, because it's falling out as a solid. And that was just sort of the the end of the string on that ball of yarn that we kind of started to unravel. Um, and looking at that in terms of a food processing aid, I thought, what if we looked at this from the perspective of a nutraceutical? So if we know these interactions are happening already. Can we flip this around and put it in the human body? Can these interactions still occur? What is happening to the protein? How does that affect the actual mechanism of the disease? And, you know, we just came up with all of these questions from there, but it really started with gluten as a fining agent in wine.
That's incredible. That is a that is a lot to peel back as you're starting your sort of academic career to take this on, and then suddenly go down a rabbit hole and you end up over here with a disease. That is, and thank you. I mean, that is crazy to take on that. You just discussed layers and layers that I imagine you were looking at an article that then led to another one led to another one and then you finally went, oh, this is way bigger than I thought.
Yeah, there's 185 references on the paper. It's just like the tip of the iceberg.
Well just to reset for everyone to those who suffer from celiac disease, obviously know about gluten and want to avoid gluten, but maybe not everyone understands why gliadin specifically, is what it is, is what we're concerned with with its blog. So why don't you explain a little bit about gliadin itself
to ours. So gluten is a heterogeneous protein made up of two subunits. So we have the gliadin, as well as glutenin. And those two proteins will come together forming inter and intra molecular bonds in order to form this gluten protein kind of as a whole. But it's the gliadin that has these repeat motifs in its amino acid primary sequence. And it's usually a prolene. That's one amino acid away from a glutamine, that's going to get recognized in the human body by an enzyme called tissue transglutaminase, or transglutaminase. Two, and that gets a deamidated. And then that's the area of the protein that's recognized by antigen presenting cells. So it really comes down to the amino acid sequence in the gliadin, versus what's typically seen in glutenin.
So step back, what you just described is exactly what happens to 1% of the population because celiac disease is the most prevalent autoimmune situation, or autoimmune disease that's there. And what you just described was the amino acids, the prolene, and the glutamine actually form the gliadin. My hearing that right, so those two forms of gliadin.
Right, so they're found within the structure of gliadin. So gliadins really are a class of proteins. There's alpha, beta, omega. And then within that alpha one, alpha two, alpha three, there are so many types of gliadins. But sort of this consistent pattern that we see in those gliadins is a really high percentage of prolene, as well as glutamine.
Okay.
So, in your article, you did describe something that I was I wanted to clarify on this, you described the prolamin glutamine residues and the sulfurus component a pro amine assisting in the ability to find these disulfide bonds, all of that, is that why gluten makes things spongy, because of these disulfide bonds is used in so many things.
Yeah. Yeah. So disulfide bonds are formed within the structure of gluten over the course of hydration, oxidation and mechanical kneading. So that's what you see when you're making like bread or pasta, and that dough sort of starts to really come together. That's a result of the formation of disulfide bonds.
Nice.
Which is what makes it yeah, which it's that texture that everybody that we're that's which is why when you get gluten free bread, you're like, no. Not the same.
Yeah, it kind of forms that balloon structure to leavening.
Yeah. So I'm gonna I have actually sent back some some gluten free pasta. Can I have some more disulfide bonds in here?
Yeah, they don't have that in a shaker Ken. It's not there.
That is that is impressive. So what why why gliadin. Why gliadin because we know that gluten is formed of of these two different proteins. But why gliadin being the more problematic protein in the in the gluten molecule.
So gliadin is more problematic, because as I mentioned, that higher frequency of the amino acid residues, the prolene, and the glutamine just found in that particular order prolene, something else, glutamine is what's going to make it more recognized by the body. It's also this high amount of prolene results in almost like an unraveled protein structure. And that is something that's recognized structurally by the body as being a problem, it's more difficult for enzymes to break down gliadin because of all of those prolenes, because of that unraveled structure, and then that unraveled structure allows it to be it allows it to interact with that tissue, transglutaminase enzyme as well.
So let me stop you right there. So you said something, and that's kind of what I wanted you to say is that gliadins are resistant to digestive enzymes. So you have this thing that your body can't readily break down. So as a scientist, my patients ask, what's the deal? Why is celiac on the rise? Why is it exponentially in the rise? Why are more people saying that they have gluten intolerance, whether or not comedians will make fun of that like, like, it's like, it's something that's in your head, but I am very gluten intolerant, but I don't have celiac disease. So why do you think we're seeing more of it?
There are quite a few ideas as to why we're seeing more celiac disease and I know that one of the prevailing hypotheses is kind of based on exposure on whether people have been exposed to gluten at certain times in their life, it's also associated with an overall increase in autoimmune disorders worldwide. So I think that there's probably a link there for sure.
So you talked about this, and I'm jumping ahead, but you did show how gliadin can actually create some paracellular leakage, so, so to speak, or that so I see a lot of my patients that will have celiac disease and then show up with another autoimmune disease. So the question is, do we really is one of the reasons why we're seeing so much autoimmune disease like Crohn's and ulcerative colitis could it be precipitated by an inflammatory process in the gut, beginning in the gut? And I just bring this up, because maybe you're at the tip of the iceberg on possibly one of the causes of why we are developing so many autoimmune diseases. What's your theory on as on how we raise these crops, and how gluten has sort of or the wheat has changed over the years from the amber waves of grain to short, stocky plants?
Well, in terms of the molecular profile of the gluten itself, I'm not as familiar with that research as probably some other more agronomy focused individuals are, but in terms of actual food products, so what we end up seeing in bread and pasta, the overall gluten content really hasn't changed over time.
Really? Okay. That's actually something that I think I was, I've told my patients wrong. I've told them that we're probably getting more gluten, which is one of the reasons why we can have that
No but I found it interesting, though, because you did reference the alpha beta and omega different gliadin subunits. And then even from there, there's sub sub units of one, two, three, and four, possibly, and as you said, I don't want to press you on this. But maybe maybe the the expression is just simply different from all of those different units over time, depending upon the mean, GMO, or not GMO or hybrid, or, who knows, it's hard to it's hard to say.
Yeah, it's also difficult when considering whether there are differences based on those individual gliadins. Because that prolene x glutamine pattern shows up in all of them. repeatedly. Yeah. And in my, in some of my papers, I've focused on alpha two gliadin as one of these specific proteins. And that one just happens to have many, many overlapping at the topes in terms of recognition and celiac disease, but it's certainly not exclusive to just that one subunit.
Can you comment on these different subunits? And in your paper, you discussed the the starting point of causing an inflammatory cascade with interleukin 15? I believe it was 15 Have you? Can you comment on that, and that's in the relationship for my gastroenterology colleagues, to lymphocytes because we always look for intraepithelial lymphocytes. And I think you show the mechanism through IL 15.
Right, so in the celiac disease inflammatory cascade, we start with the recognition of gliadin by the CXCR3 receptor on intestinal epithelial cells. And that's one of the prevailing hypotheses in terms of pathogenesis is that the CXCR3 receptor will stimulate the release of zonulin zonulin will then trigger that paracellular leakage that you mentioned earlier. And as the gliadin passes through the laminapropria, then we see this release of IL 15 from the intestinal epithelial cells and that IL 15 is what's going to recruit those intraepithelial lymphocytes. And so that infiltration of those lymphocytes into the intestinal barrier is one of the Hallmark one of the Hallmark traits of celiac disease from the clinical perspective, as I'm sure you're very familiar with Marsh scores. For example,
Let's back that up. Because that is a key, everything you just said. But I want my colleagues to understand this because as somebody who is a strong believer in intestinal permeability, aka leaky gut on Google, but intestinal permeability, from talking to my colleagues leading to other things, let's let's walk it back. You discussed how gliadin binds to CXCR3 which is fancy and everything but dumb it down for me really quick gliadin leads to this which leads to zonulin which leads to this so that I can tell my patients and my colleagues can tell their patients. This is this is the process of why I want you to avoid or to avoid gluten to avoid gliadin.
So I guess what you would tell patients is basically that their intestinal lining is extremely sensitive to this individual protein and when they take in this protein their body is it's it's mounting a response almost as if there is an invader an immune response to this protein if that is helpful.
And you showed it is helpful because zonulin is something that I look for I actually found a lab that can order that so I can look and see, okay, I believe that you do have some intestinal permeability. We know that infection, bacterial overgrowth, and in talks that I've given, I say that high ingestion of gluten does this lead to increased zonulin. I didn't have a mechanism how it did, but now we realize it. You just explained it. So it makes it like every time you dial it down a little further, you're like, no, I believe it more now. So I've been saying that for a long time. Yeah, that is really cool. So yeah, so you, in your science have shown that zonulin leads to intestinal permeability.
I was not the person to discover that. But there there is a I believe...
You have the opportunity to own it right now. Nobody else has stuck their flag in it.
I'm not gonna take credit.
You can credit for everything you want. Until somebody else calls me right now and says "that's mine!"
Brilliant, man. Yeah, yeah, there there is the mucosal immunology lab at Massachusetts General Hospital, Dr. Alessio Fasano who headed that work. Yeah, I would love to take credit for it, but I think that would follow my career in a negative way.
Alessio Fasano basically, I would fly and just listen to him lecture and then leave the whole rest of the, you know, the lecture yet Alessio Fasano is one of my heroes. So yeah, for sure. That's that that's why I thought it was funny. If you claimed it. He seems to have relaxed a little bit over the years, he needs to get back at it. That is awesome. Um, let's talk a little bit about the whole section that you have on treatments, because you did a great job of summarizing different treatments that pharmaceutical companies different people have tried to do. I'm very keen to well, anyways, I'll let you get into it, because he did a great job of reviewing all of it and to show what has promise what doesn't what's there, what has failed in clinical trials, before we even begin to discuss the polyphenols because then the rest of your paper is about, I believe that this is probably the best mechanism. So do you remember some of the stuff that you have in the paper about a few of the different mechanisms that different pharmaceutical companies are looking at?
Yeah, for sure. So they can kind of be broken down into two major classes. So I think of them really as patient focused versus protein focused and the patient focused therapies are going to be kind of your immunomodulators things that are affecting the individuals the individual's immune response, that inflammatory cascade through for example, Nexvax was a vaccine that was I think it got to phase two trials and then eventually was, was shut down. We have larazotide acetate, which is a zonulin inhibitor. That one is in I believe, phase three trials now, which is pretty exciting. And those that target the immune response. I also I have to mention my favorite, which is the hook worms. So a hookworm infection can actually mediate immune responses, then take down what would be this overactive immune response and celiac disease, immunosuppressive effects of hookworms have been.
So we have looked at trying to use worms for Crohn's disease for the same for the same reason. How does it do it in celiac disease?
So in celiac disease, it just dampens the immune response. And what they've shown is that in vivo, individuals who've been infected with hookworms have a decreased IL 15 release upon stimulation with gluten.
Interesting. That's the thing where we always say that in third world countries, you don't see autoimmune diseases. A lot of us argued that as to why.
Yeah, so that's probably my favorite that I haven't done. But then we have the the protein focused therapies, which I think the most notable are the enzymes. So if you're orally taking in an enzyme that will help break down gluten further, that's one that's been shown to be effective, also some antibodies that will bind to gluten and prevent its digestion. So it's kind of a similar mechanism to what I talked about with polyphenols and those protein focused are basically going to either break down or further sequester. gluten from digestion. .
Yeah, you got into a little bit about how these proteins bind and how there's different mechanisms with polyphenols really quick. The nexvax, was that, was that ImmusanT? Do you know the company that was doing it?
Yes,
So years ago. So Bob Anderson is a guess is a PhD gastroenterologist out of Australia. I had hooked up with him when we were just beginning the whole concept of using polyphenols to treat IBS. And, and it shows how difficult it is to really take a concept. And take it all the way through to something you can get through the FDA because it was like 8, 10 years ago that he was working on this, and it started a company. And then when you said that I was reading your paper, I was like, oh, it didn't work. That guy put his life. I mean, put his heart and soul into it. And so shout out to Dr. Anderson, who really kind of, I think, hopefully his next version will be able to do this. So we can have a vaccine. Everybody's talking vaccines right now. So we'd love to have the old vaccine.
It's a hot topic.
That's awesome. You wanna ask anything about that?
About all of that? Yeah. Man, you must be tired. Thanks, Ken. That was awesome. No, I find it incredibly interesting the way that you've had this pathway to to figure out what proteins are the biggest threat. I was surprised from what you had written specifically about hookworms. And I was just thinking about the, you know, those who who wouldn't have an inflammatory issue because they weren't wearing shoes. Isn't that how you transmit hookworms is through the soles of the feet?
I do not remember my parasitology right now, do you know Charlene?
I'm not sure I'm pretty sure they were orally administered, at least in the studies.
I'm sure in the study they were. My version was the was the old version.
We're gonna see if hookworms work here, everybody take your shoes off. That vat right there has placebos or that vat has hookworms just jump around and see what happens.
So remember before we recorded and started this episode, we told you we'd leave all of the all of the mistakes in that joke didn't work. And that's fine. It happens occasionally.
But I think it's really important because leading up to that you're discussing all these different ways that pharmaceutical companies are trying to do it and people are trying to figure it out use it's really not always like the hookworms oral ingestion, not soles of the feet. But I do think hookworms happen because you get exposed to it. So then this is when you propose why polyphenols. So now this is the peeling back where now you're going to discuss polyphenols. So looking at all those different mechanisms, why do you 30,000 foot view, why do you think polyphenols will be beneficial, and then we'll dial down to the different steps, you've got some great charts and steps A through F on how it works and some incredible science on everything. So why did you think the polyphenols would do this in the very, very, very beginning?
So in the very beginning, it seemed like there was probably a pretty good chance that polyphenols would be able to be beneficial because we knew from those studies with using gluten as a fining agent in wine, that there would be an interaction between gluten and these polyphenols. And then we have sort of this added benefit of knowing that polyphenols are generally safe, you know, people consume them every day, as long as they're eating fruits and vegetables. And we know that they have these other beneficial effects for so for example, they have these antioxidant, anti inflammatory effects that are occurring when these compounds are not interacting with protein. So we know that they're already generally a pretty good thing. And protein polyphenol interactions are just kind of this natural phenomenon that we see all the time in many different contexts. So just starting out it seemed like it was probably going to be a slam dunk.
That's awesome. All right now, oh, where was it page for this page 19. That little picture sums ups a lot of important things that little picture right there sums up about 15 or 12 pages of material. So this is the your graph here shows stepwise why you can demonstrate how a and then we'll get into this after you go through this but a large polyphenolic compound with more branches can do some of these things. So this is kind of the steps A through F on how these polyphenols may help us deal with gliadin. So on your first part right here, can you please explain the physical sequestration of native gliadins.
So with native glutens that's going to be your gliadin before it interacts with any of your digestive enzymes in your gastrointestinal tract. So that would be the form of gliadin, that's going to show up in, for example, a slice of bread. So these are going to be higher molecular weight proteins that are fully intact and haven't been digested at all. And these are able to interact with polyphenols through a variety of molecular mechanisms. So we see a lot of hydrogen bonding, we see ring stacking, one of my earlier papers really gets into the weeds in terms of the types of bonds that are formed from but we see these interactions and the formation of this precipitate and solution. So if you were to combine a solution of polyphenols in a solution of gliadin, you would see it actually form a solid and start to fall out of solution, which is a pretty good indicator that there is a physical interaction going on. So it's kind of the first step. And we see that also with gliadins that have been digested by pepsin and triptan which are two digestive enzymes.
What what polyphenol did you start with specifically, what type of polyphenols?
So I specifically first was interested in Epigallocatechin Gallate, which is the primary catechin found in green tea. I was interested in egcg because because of its prevalence in green tea, and we know that it has all of these other beneficial effects, it was being studied, in terms of its anti obesity and anti inflammatory effects by another group at Penn State at the time. So it seems like the one to target and some of my later more applied work used green tea extract. So that would also combine other types of catechins and smaller phenolic compounds.
Nice. We're gonna get into that and a little bit here. All right, then in your beautiful little graph here. Step two hydrolyzed gliadins.
Yeah, so what I just mentioned hydrolyzed gliadins, that would be those which have encountered pepsin and triptan. So breaking those proteins down into smaller digested fragments. And we see the same sort of precipitation forming the same kind of haze formation when we combine those in solution.
So basically, we're talking about a larger gliadin molecule versus a smaller one. Regardless, the polyphenols are going to suck up, grab it, and sink down to the bottom. What was that called in wine again? Would you consider this fining also, even though it's not in the wine industry? Can we use the
It is the same molecular mechanism. But it's, I mean, fining I think, refers more to the processing. But we do see protein and polyphenol interactions similar to this in a lot of different areas of science. So again, in wine, because it's sort of the root of this project, we see interactions between small prolene rich proteins and polyphenols in astringency. So like if you take a sip of red wine and you kind of get that drying sensation on your tongue, that's actually the polyphenols from the wine, precipitating your salivary proteins, which are also rich in prolene.
So that was I always wondered that also. So okay, so quick question, which is interesting. So if it well, I'll save it for later because I want to go through the mechanisms first. So that's two mechanisms, but I got so many questions for you related to all this stuff. Then there's the aspect of digestive enzyme inhibition.
Right. So um, this is actually I think one of the one of the really interesting parts of this study is polyphenols have been noted for anti nutritional properties and the prevention of protein digestion, and a few different studies in the past, showing that individuals have a high intake of polyphenols, they actually can sometimes have issues with protein absorption. So one of the reasons is the direct interactions with protein like we just mentioned, between the polyphenols and gliadin. But another is the fact that these polyphenols can directly inhibit the action of digestive enzymes through either binding directly to the enzyme and kind of changing the shape of the enzyme preventing it from being able to preventing it from being able to hydrolyze its substrate or binding in that same binding pocket for the enzyme and preventing the substrate from even getting in.
So that's fascinating. So there's there is a little bit of a debatable thing because when working with scientists in the cattle industry, there's actually some data to show that when you give sheep and cattle large like tannins, they actually have improved nutrition and but they're ruminants and then people try extrapolates the ruminants over here. And then we've worked with some scientists that have actually said, well, the binding, if it binds to the protein, not necessarily the protease or the lipase, or whatever pancreatic enzyme it is, that when it gets since the actual large tannin does not get absorbed, it stays intraluminal, the body can digest the protein off, and then the tannin keeps going. So there's it's interesting because I think that there is some debate a little bit where like you have people like Anna Hagerman that are talking about how it can be an anti nutritional thing. And then you've got these other people in sports nutrition saying no, actually, you can improve the overall nutritional value of foods by taking it with a polyphenol. And so it's it's a fascinating area. And I think that it's kind of a moving target we have seen in clinic in my clinical practice, and in the studies that we've done, we've seen beneficial results using polyphenols. And I think that's why it can do some different things like work as a fasting mimetic molecule and things like that. That's That's really interesting. I did not know that it has the potential to bind to the digestive enzyme. I had not come across that before wild. So...
Yeah, because enzymes are proteins.
The next one, improved barrier integrity and transport and decreased transport.
So um, there have been some studies that have shown in individuals with leaky gut or intestinal permeability, that polyphenols are able to just directly affect intestinal barrier function. And I showed in one of my studies actually, in our untreated controls that we saw an increase in barrier integrity, when we just use green tea extract, compared to the control, so in the absence of gliadin, we still saw an increase in transepithelial electrical resistance,
Improved leaky gut, do you have a mechanism for that when it's not related to gliadin?
Um, so in terms of improving it, when it's not related to gliadin, it's most likely just related to the inflammatory cascade. And, you know, the gut is kind of just always in flux, and always producing, you know, interleukin 6 810, just everything and kind of mediating that response, I think, can expose potentially some underlying permeability, that it can then reverse.
I love that you say that because we talk a lot about other things that create intestinal inflammation like high fructose corn syrup, polyunsaturated fatty acids, like soybean oil, and things like that, that have been shown to create an inflammatory response. So you said something really interesting. We're talking about gliadin here, but you this also shows that it can help with the leaky gut, intestinal permeability, whatever you want to say, when it doesn't even it isn't related to gliadin it can actually do that related to the inflammatory cascade, and we talk a lot about inflammation on the show all the time. inflammation is good when you need it. Bad when it stays there all the time. And unfortunately, our diets I think that we tend to keep it inflamed, if you eat the typical, you know, American diet, the sad diet, you're gonna you're gonna have an inflamed gut, you need to protect it.
Definitely. And you haven't gotten to zonulin yet have you?
We talked about Zonulin a little earlier.
No, like during during the cascade that you had written down with your hand. The reason why I say that is because you had long before in conjunction with the leaky gut protection. You had mentioned that zonulin contributes to leaky gut. And since we had mentioned it earlier, and he hadn't put it on there, they're probably controlling the, or keeping the decrease of zonulin, after having enough polyphenols would also lend to
Well, now that he brings it up. So you wrote that gliadin binds to myd88, which ultimately releases the zonulin. So does it prevent the binding to the myd88? Is that how it prevents zonulin from from being released?
We don't know the precise mechanism in terms of what interactions it's actually preventing. So where it's really targeting that inflammatory cascade, it would make sense based on our data, that the polyphenols are sequestering the gliadin and preventing it from binding to anything else. But in terms of studies where we actually pinpoint that mechanism, those haven't been done yet. So I think it would be really interesting to do some of this either in vitro or ex vivo if we were able to get tissue cultures to see how that affects really the zonulin release because that's kind of the the linchpin in that mechanism.
So that's fascinating. So I've had you know, I've always I treat a lot of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth SIBO patients and I will check them and they will have increased levels of zonulin. I assume it's related to the bacterial inflammatory cascade and we treat it and it goes down. Treat them with Atrantil and it goes down. And I'm assuming it's I got rid of the bacteria, but you just brought up something interesting. There may be something more nuanced going on.
Or SIBO I mean a lot of a lot of different options.
Yeah. So that's, I think that's, that's another angle. It just shows how much I think there's so much cool chemistry, cool physiology, cool applications of this, that you're that you're really tapping into. And you're, you're bringing up your own questions, you're gonna have a long career chasing your own thoughts. So. And then, we already talked about the anti inflammatory activity, NF Kappa beta, and things like that, that you basically discussed, which is the overall decreasing of the inflammatory response. And then the final one that you discuss in this in this in this figure is the transglutaminase downregulation. Can you explain that that one I was struggling with.
Yeah, so that actually is from a really recent paper by a group out of Louisiana State University. And they found that when treating intestinal cells in vitro with Coco polyphenols, they saw a down reveal a down regulation of tissue transglutaminase. So when we have this exposure of gliadin, to our intestinal cells, transglutaminase is released kind of as a response to epithelial damage. It's an enzyme that is found in everyone's body that's associated with wound healing. So when the intestinal when your intestinal barrier is kind of infiltrated by intestinal epithelial lymphocyte, intestinal lymphocytes, sorry. When you see that infiltration, and that damage that's occurring, that's when transglutaminase is released. And what they found in vitro was that we're not seeing that release of transglutaminase when polyphenols were added to that culture.
That's super cool.
You probably don't have a direct MLA on that yet, but it's definitely been noticed as a as a decrease. Is that what you're saying?
Right, yeah.
Okay. Now that that's very, very cool, though. I don't think I'd ever heard that before at all.
No, that is really cool. And the mechanisms that how you're going to all of this is just absolutely incredible. Alright, so let's dumb it down real quick, for me. I need my prolene and my saliva. And now I understand why, so can you tell me how fat...so like if I eat a ribeye and then take a big, bold Cabernet? Why the Cabernet doesn't have that astringency while I'm eating a fat I've always wondered...
Yeah, so fat will coat your tongue. And it's basically creating a layer between the proteins that are in your saliva and inhibiting that binding.
So it's, it's making the tannin just slide over the prolene is what you're saying?
Um, yeah, you could explain it that way.
Well, that's, I'm gonna explain it that way to myself. I'm not gonna get more complex. I'm just gonna go you're just doing this to let it slide over.
I liked the way she said, "you could do that."
Alright, so in theory, we have done I mean, it's, it's not fining because it's the but but you need to come up with your own term when when polyphenols bind gliadin and sink to the bottom. So shining, Charlene fining and it's Charlening. So when you're Charlening gliadin down in there and then if I take so if I put a bunch of gliadin in this cup and then I put a bunch of polyphenols in there and it it Charlenings it down Charlenings, can I turn that into a verb?
Yeah, you did. You just did!
So when I'm Charlening the gliadin to the bottom of the cup, and I mix it up and I swallow it. This is the other concept I'm trying to think of does the body then it goes down. I don't feel the astringency because it's already bound to the gliadin or whatever. It's I'm not getting that but will the body then break off? Will the enzyme since the polyphenol is tied to the gliadin? Will my body break off that Charlening molecule? In other words, will it can it still digest the protein that is attached to it?
So in terms of whether it can still digest the protein, our data says that it will not so doing an in vitro digestion of polyphenols and gliadins that have been sort of pre combined before all of the pH fluctuations before the introduction of pepsin and trypsin. We've found that that complexation will prevent The digestion of gliadins of native gliadins. And it will prevent the formation of the smaller molecular weight fragments that stimulate the inflammatory response.
So since it binds so strongly to the prolene, glutamine aspect, if you have a protein that doesn't have that, do you think that there will be less affinity and it will come apart?
Well, that's definitely something we're interested in, in looking at. Now that I have some grad students working on this project, we're really interested in seeing how kind of the matrix effect of everything else in the gut can affect these interactions and affect the stability. So one thing that I think suggests that we'll still see some success with this nutraceutical treatment is the fact that polyphenols generally have a greater affinity to bind to proteins that have a high frequency of prolene. And the high frequency of prolene that we see in gliadin is is fairly unique. We don't really see that much in other food proteins. So it's something we'll need to investigate, but there's definitely a chance
What are some other high prolene foods that we typically eat?
High prolene foods that we eat? I think you got me on that one. But in terms of the kind of major food proteins that we study, in the lab, so I remember doing some sort of preliminary work with like beta lactam globulin and some casein when I was in grad school. And just to kind of look at precipitation, those definitely have less prolene than than gliadins do. In terms of others that have high amounts of prolene, I'd have to look into that.
I remember looking once as to why everybody did why there's a lot of soy issues. And I did see that soy has high prolene compared to other proteins. And so I'm wondering if that's one of the reasons why a lot of people have issues with soy also. I don't know,
I that's definitely something that's that's worth looking into. Because it is the high prolene content that kind of gives gliadin that unraveled structure that makes it difficult to break down enzymatically. That's definitely something to look at, but not something I have I've heard or read.
You've been slacking Charlene
Poor CVs only 17 pages long.
You know, you sit there you, you come up with the term Charlening, and you're just resting on your laurels making money off that Trademark. All right. Now my favorite, favorite part of this whole thing you said in your article studies into mechanisms have shown phenolics with large branching structures with greater potential interaction have greater affinity for interacting with gliadin. So that's something that a lot of people don't really understand is that these polyphenolic compounds come in varying shapes and sizes. I this is I'm setting this up, because the scientists that we've been working with in South America, the quebracho Colorado is one of the largest stable polyphenols that we the original research I was doing is because it's both acid stable, and its basic stable, which means it can stay intraluminal in the in the intestine, and then the scientists we've worked with one of them in an in vitro digestion showed that when this becomes fermented, in other words, with our microbiome, that it actually she did a gas chromatograph and showed all these different molecules that came off, one of them being egcg, and other one being quercetin and another one being rutin. And you're like, holy cow, wait a minute, these large building blocks actually have all these smaller phenolic molecules in it. And all the studies have been done on smaller phenolic molecules, because the prior studies were done on that. And you're going to grab a molecule that's already been done. I forgot his name but the but the gastroenterologist that uses egcg to look at ulcerative colitis, and then that guy, because somebody else did it, and that's the proof of concept. What is really interesting is this whole science is using these large if I gave you the largest, most hydroxyl bond, you know, molecule, would this be the thing that would work that I guess your paragraph implies that,
Yeah, so it's actually really interesting. And some studies that I've completed that we're kind of working on getting out there at the moment, sort of take this idea of size versus actual shape. So when we talk about polyphenols and their and their structure, we're taking into consideration the molecular weight, but also the branching like you mentioned. So if we compare molecules like Thea Flavin, which is found in black tea versus egcg, which is found in green tea, they have relatively comparable molecular weights. But egcg has this hydroxylation that almost makes it from like arms. And it has this more flexible bendable structure.
You lost me though. Would you show that one more time? What does it do?
Yeah. So it kind of has these arms that are almost able to wrap around a protein whereas Thea Flavin has, if you look at the structure of this Benzotropolone ring, which is just as large, bulky, sort of ring structure, and it doesn't have sort of that same flexibility as egcg has. So even though Theo Flavin actually is a little bit larger, egcg is able to bind better. So it really comes down to the structure dictating the function of the molecule, which kind of brings it to my lab and my fascination with all of this the food structure and function lab. Yeah, figuring out how structure can affect the function of these molecules with...
Oh! That's why you called it that. Food structure and function. Your website. I was like, that's an odd name for website, foodstructureandfunctionlab.com. And now it makes sense, not just the food, or the structure, but it happens to be that the two combine to make a function.
Those are really interrelated and biochemistry and
Food structure function lab. Sorry, I want to make sure everybody hears that food structure, function lab.com
Structure and function lab.
Okay just say it one more time.
Foodstructureandfunctionlab.com
There we go. Sorry to interrupt. I just want to make sure that people
No you're fine. But yeah, conceptually, that is something that I just think is so fascinating how the structure can really affect the function in terms of health. So
So as a, butt doctor, the thing that's going to blow, take that all up to another level is how the microbiome is involved with us, then we're, like, everything you're doing is fascinating. It's so cool. And then you start fermenting it and seeing what happens, and some pretty incredible magic happens. So
Right, yeah, so fermentation, but then some of the work that I did, during my postdoc at Rutgers University, we were looking at alternative mechanisms for polyphenols to affect the gut microbiome, because we saw with, um, I believe it was cranberry polyphenols, as well as Grapeseed, extract someone before me, and found that supplementation of those polyphenols to an individual with diabetes resulted in the increase of this growth of akkermansia ophelia. And so we're trying to look at how this can why this happens, you know, like, what is the mechanism? And so one of the things that we really got interested in was the potential for polyphenols to act as radical scavengers in the lumen. So whether they're being broken down by the gut bacteria, whether they're scavenging radicals, whether they have an antibiotic capacity, I mean, there are so many options, and it's so fascinating. So, yeah, sorry to go off on that tangent,T
That's pretty much the world I live in because I see my goal. What we have seen through fecal studies, actually, is that when my patients take a either a diet large and polyphenols, or they supplement with Atrantil we have seen an increase in microbial diversity. And then once you have an increase in microbial diversity, you start having different species of bacteria which can do these beneficial things like the anti diabetic, anti obesogenic and then you have the anti. And then people are now looking into that. And that's sort of this whole new field of science called the postbiotics. It's like, what does the so we're almost describing that these become prebiotic, like, we're just something that is not digested and then your own microbiome, but what we're seeing is, is that it's not a one to one, you have to have a diverse microbiome to get the full benefit of these polyphenols. So you can have the structure and function but you also have to have the ability to produce these postbiotics, like have you ever heard of a molecule called urolithin urolithin a urolithin B, you know, things like that. Lactic acid gets, you know, kicks off and we know that that helps, you know with apoptosis and Mitophagy and there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff to uncover. This is a lot of really cool things. What do you think? Alright, so just sum this up. Sorry about that. We covered so much material. So to sum up your whole paper here and in just a couple sentences, because there's a lot that we just talked about, and I want to hear it in your words. How would you describe what you just what we just talked about in just a couple sentences?
So overall, we are focusing on developing a nutraceutical approach to treating celiac disease via the natural phenomenon of protein polyphenol interactions, and keeping gliadin from being digested and being recognized by the immune system.
She did it in one sentence Ken.
Yeah she did. Wow. All right, what's your lab gonna do next? What are you guys working on?
We are continuing to pursue this project. It was kind of on a hiatus as I did my postdoc working on a different project. But now that I have my own lab, but I have a couple of graduate students who are really targeting that sort of structure and function angle, we're looking at extracts from different polyphenol rich foods for their ability to basically elicit the same effects that I observed with green tea extract. And we're also trying to kind of target those downstream mechanisms that I discussed in the paper. So what is the impact of polyphenol supplementation on for example, the activity of tissue transglutaminase? What is the impact on the recognition of these proteins by antigen presenting cells? I'm kind of trying to go downstream and sort of look at this. The potential of polyphenols from really every angle of celiac disease.
That's awesome. You said you have two graduate students working for you right now
I actually have four right now. Yeah, I have a few that are working. I have two that are working on the celiac disease project. And then two more that are working on another project based on protein polyphenol interactions. We're looking at using novel plant proteins as delivery systems of anthocyanins.
Oh, wow, that's awesome. Can you do me a huge favor and subtle debate between me and Eric? Can you just take two of those and have one of your graduate students swallow hookworms have the other one just walk around on hookworms to see
We haven't even had a hiatus to have this debate.
I have a student who an undergrad who really wants to work in my lab, so I'll pitch that project to him.
Poor undergrad doing anything. to get into graduate.
Hookworm internship. Nice. Well, Dr. Charlene Van Buitin. Thank you so much PhD as Assistant Professor of food science and Human Nutrition at Colorado State University. I can't thank you enough for coming. Oh, yeah. Without I want to repeat your your website foodstructureandfunctionlab.com correct? Everything will be listed in show notes will have links to your study as well as your own personal website and Ken, any closing remarks?
Your social media hashtag, there's no way you're as smart as I am. Do you have any social media or anything? Do you want to get out there?
I'm on Twitter, cbvanbuitin. If anyone has questions or is interested, I don't share that much science on there. Mostly insight to working in academia. But yeah, that's that's really all I'm on.
So if you want hard hitting political opinions. Go to her Twitter account. Not at all. Thank you so much. Don't go anywhere once we wrap up the show. But gut check project fans, that is going to be episode number 52. Be sure and check show notes. So you can connect with Dr. Van Buiten. And, again, if you have anyone in your life or yourself suffer from celiac disease, we think that this information could be of just huge, great consequences for you and your family.
100% and this is why we do this this is we get an opportunity to meet brilliant people like you, thank you for taking the time to do this. And hopefully this will this will get somebody to call you lab. Hopefully we'll be able to do some sort of collab, I would love to collaborate with your lab. We can we'll talk more about that. But maybe another scientist goes, Oh, this is a little piece I was looking for. This is how we help each other as a community. I'm a clinician, you're a bench researcher. I'm going to apply whatever you tell me and see if it works and just thank you for doing everything that you do.
Thanks. Thanks so much for having me.
Absolutely. That's episode number 52. We'll see y'all next time. Like and share. See you next time.
Bye bye.
What is the most preventable cancer? How can you help your body protect yourself from it? March is colon cancer awareness month, and Dr. Ken is loaded once again with data to help you avoid serious disease!
Check out the show, this one is very important, really at anytime of year, and if: You are 45 or older You are experiencing a noticeable change in your bowel habits (any age) You think you are seeing blood in your stool (any age) Inexplicable abdominal pain Frequent diarrhea or constipation oddly shaped stools (example ribbon like) Go see a gastroenterologist, and check out episode #51 today
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Link to CDC Zombie Preparedness Page https://www.cdc.gov/cpr/zombie/index.htm
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Eric Rieger 0:00
Hello gut check project fans and KB MD Hill family. How are you doing today? This is your host, Eric Rieger, soon to be joined by my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. I'll be feeling great today. This is episode number 50 halfway to 100 What does that mean? I don't know. But I can tell you what we've got an awesome show. Our guest today is the author of healing CBOE. Shavasana. That's right, the same one who founded CBOE SOS community online. shavon, has written an incredible book. And I wish that we had had our hands on just essentially a publication like this to share with our patients years ago, so that they know that they're not alone. shavon has written this book, and you'll hear a lot about it here in the episode, that essentially, if you're new to suffering from SIBO, or you've got a a family member that just got unsolvable gi issues, and they they think it is SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. This book is for them. It's not overly medical. It's actually written from the patient's perspective. Why? Because she avans that patient, she dealt with struggling to find her solutions for CBOE 40 years. She can tell you how she thinks that she developed it, what stressors caused it, who she talked to how she failed. And then ultimately, what she began to learn by connecting the dots and talking to a bunch of different professionals. And then tell you a little bit about not only how to heal from CBOE and how to maintain that status, and most of all, how to improve your quality of life. Because it's all about healthspan it's not just about lifespan, and health span is critically important if you're gonna live long, live long and healthy. So let's get to it. Our sponsors today are of course all trying to go to love my tummy, calm, love mydomain.com slash KB MD guess what is in Shawn's book. I'll try until That's right, is right. She suffers from CBOE and she helps direct several people who deal with CBOE and she openly recommends artron to what do you know, polyphenols go to love my tiny.com slash KB MD. Get your own polyphenols today are trying to gigantic proanthocyanidin polyphenols in there. That's right. So love my tummy.com forward slash KB MD and of course, unrefined bakery, get fantastic food and if you have a specialty diet, it's keto paleo, gluten free or otherwise, and you want some of the foods that you felt like you had to avoid. Go to unrefined bakery.com use code, gut check and save 20% off of your entire first order. That's unrefined bakery.com Last but not least, get your very own signature products from Dr. Keith Brown. It KB Md health.com. That's KB MD health calm, especially the CBD. And here pretty soon to be a new product rolling out so definitely check out KB Md health.com. See what we have to offer arm our year for 2020 one's going to change quite a bit as we grow the community and kind of have some really awesome revelations in terms of health and discovery. So check us out KB Md health.com. Check out the store, use code GCP and save 20% off of any order any day all the time. Okay, let's get to it. Meet shivan Sarna, She's the author of healing cebo, founder of Siebel SOS. She's a delight. I think you're gonna love episode number 50.
Hello, project fans. Family, I hope you're having a great day. I'm Eric here with my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. And again, for our 50th show. We've got a we've got a guest we've known for a long time
Ken Brown 4:10
well, so this is awesome. We've waited for this. And it just so happens that it coincided perfectly. That one of our favorite people, one of the people that is so knowledgeable about something that we are passionate about happens to have a brand new book, and she waited to release it till our 50th episode
Eric Rieger 4:31
that was very nice of her. What's up chevonne
Unknown Speaker 4:34
Hey, anything for you guys. Thanks for having me. And I'm very thrilled and honored 50th episode and my new book that I've been working on for what feels like 50 years.
Eric Rieger 4:45
Heck yeah. What I mean the and you're you're so much bigger than than just that book. I mean, you started CBOE SLS. You mean you're literally the founder. You've been working with Dr. Allison c Becker for quite some time. I'm going to forget something in here. Oh, and she has a cat named Belle.
Ken Brown 4:59
She Tennant Bell, I would actually I would venture to say that shavon because of your passion, because now that I understand your reasoning, why you're passionate about it, because the book is phenomenal. I loved it. It was it's a, it's a really easy read, it's really awesome. I'm gonna recommend it to all of my patients, because not only did you really expose yourself on a very personal level, so that you can show how, and all my patients are not alone. I mean, this is like what you actually explained in the beginning is exactly what my patients say. But then you got into the science and you interviewed so many of the world thought leaders on this, and then ultimately, you ended it with Look, I'm not just going to tell you about this, I'm going to tell you how to eat. And the last half of the book is a really cool recipe book about how to do it in the one thing, which is you're doing something unique. It's how to heal your Siebel in 21 days, and I'm covering your name their Shavasana beautiful Shavasana one of our favorite people and I'm gonna say that you are the voice of Zeebo. There's lots of scientists out there, Allison cvac, or Mark Pim and tell Roussel all these people that you've interviewed, awesome, we know them, well, we love them. They're great people. But you have a very unique history in that you have the ability to write, produce, and do these different things. So we need people like you to be the voice of this. And that's what you really are becoming with this book. Congratulations on the book.
Unknown Speaker 6:34
Thank you so much. It's been a dream of mine, my best friend told me while I was going through all of these treatments and discoveries, you know, you really need to write a book and I would like bring my notebooks into the doctor's offices and appointments and they'd look at me go, you know, you really need to write a book. I really got to know. And I, I, you know, writing a book is not easy. This little baby like looks like a one and done. Oh my gosh, it was very laboris but I am a TV person. So I did the CBOE SLS summit one, the CBOE SLS summit to the IBS and CBOE SLS summit, the microbiome rescue summit. And now it'll be my mother had lymphoma back in the 90s. No one knew anything about anything it felt like and I'm just working on the lymphatic rescue summit. So I really took everything from those digestive summits and put it into this book. And I have interviewed hundreds of people about the topic, including you. And I wanted to give everybody a book that was inexpensive, because 20 bucks for all this is crazy good. And sometimes Amazon has already put it on sale for 18 bucks, which is also crazy, probably won't stay that way for long. But I'm thrilled. And I, you know, I wanted to get everybody a book that I wish I had had, because I was doing like Dr. Google and you know, staring at the incredible website, cebo info.com, which is Dr. C. Becker's website. But I needed everybody to know that they weren't alone. And if I could share a couple of stories and some recipes, and how to get through the day more easily plus the science. Then as I was talking to God and the universe and the angels begging for help. I was like, Look, if I have insurance, I have a brain. I have a great computer, I have a little bit of time on my hands, because for the first time my husband was studying become a CPA. And so I actually had some free time while he was studying. And I was like, Look, if I'm having a hard time figuring this out. I know other people have to be. So I told the universe, I was going to help them as I got helped. And here it is.
Eric Rieger 8:44
You know, I think all of that is awesome. And I don't want to steal any Thunder from Ken as he goes over the various aspects is he's he's gonna, I'm sure pull some quotes and stuff from the book. But the thing that I liked is that and C Becker says it from the foreword is it's written so that anybody who is new to this game can pick up this book and feel like they're learning the what's happening to me, what's kind of the science behind it, and let's give you some how on how you can begin to work your way out. It's a it's an awesome manual. And honestly, it's a tribute back to when we very, very first teamed up with one of those CBOE summits that you did, and it's been great for us and that connection for altran to to the CBOE community has, it was really was a launching point for our product as well.
Ken Brown 9:30
Well, what I love about this is that I can I can hand this book to people that have come up to me, because when we do the CBOE when I've done the CBOE summits with you, you have such knowledgeable people that join this and the questions are in depth and they're there. And that's not what I'm seeing in clinic. What I'm seeing is your forward. Yeah, you said my story. Yeah. And that's what I see. I see the people that come in and they go I went to this doctor, that doctor said I do want to open with a quote, because this is basically how your book opens. And if anybody relates to this, I need you to go by healing CBOE by Shavasana. Like right now, because this will grab you, and this is your writing style. This is beautiful. This is what makes it really cool. You make it personal, and you make it sciency. But here it is. I was in the bathroom sweating. When I finally got out of there, the waiter looked worried. And my poor boss, a polite man in his 40s asked me if I was alright, I mumbled body functions and shrug my shoulders. I thought that was the funniest opening line, you basically described yourself in the toilet opening line. That's awesome. That's so vulnerable. And so cool.
Unknown Speaker 10:51
You know, I'll never forget that moment. And I in touch through Facebook with that boss who's no longer my boss, but and I can't wait for him to read that. I don't even know that. You're in line. He's like, let me just get the book.
Ken Brown 11:10
You're the polite man in your 40s.
Unknown Speaker 11:14
It turns out he wasn't in his 40s he was in his 30s. But I didn't realize that.
Eric Rieger 11:22
Better. Hey, I don't know if you know this or not. I don't know if you have an audio version of your book out. But actually, Ken was just only doing that because he wants to be.
Ken Brown 11:30
I did not know. Yeah. So I was sort of auditioning for the audio version. Do you happen to have an audio version yet for your book?
Unknown Speaker 11:39
I actually do. I didn't realize you were in the market. But I do. She is an amazing actor. award winning. And she's actually done the audio books for some of the most famous and influential people on the planet. And I didn't realize that when they were like, what about this person's voice? I was like, that sounds amazing.
Ken Brown 12:01
I'm just gonna go back to
Unknown Speaker 12:03
song. Yeah, right. Anyway,
Ken Brown 12:06
doctor and do my thing. I will try an audio book person anymore. But that's awesome. So you already have an audio version of this. That's incredible.
Unknown Speaker 12:14
And Kindle? Yep. It's It's really good. Actually, when they told me they were gonna do an audiobook because I was I am so new to the book game. I was like, really? And they're like, Yeah, of course. I'm like, Okay. I mean, it was it was really exciting. This has been an exciting process. For me, it's something I've always dreamed of writing that book. And then I never thought I'd be writing it about this. But I am. I'm very proud of it. And the fact that you like that line makes me feel really safe and good, because I was, you know, this is like, really vulnerable stuff.
Ken Brown 12:49
Well, I think it's the reason why I really like it, honestly, chevonne is it's number one, it's, it's great reading, because it hooks you immediately. But that is actually the conversations that I have with my family. And it's a very real thing. And people hold that in until they find a doctor that they can communicate with. And I hear that and I just say, hey, you're not alone. And now I can sit there and say, not only you're not alone, but it's actually people have written books that have experienced similar things. I talked to patients that turned down jobs because the commute is too long. I talked to people that, you know, they they they won't eat for two days because they have to go on a trip and so on and so on. And you've been there and you basically described that. I think that what you have done and I you know, I mentioned this in the beginning that you have become the voice of CBOE, you know, teaming up with people like Dr. C. Becker, who we all respect a ton and you've done these summits in his Facebook Lives. What you've done is that you have made CBOE front and center. And I'm gonna challenge you that I think that this is just the beginning because so few people really know what this is. But you may have to continue to do this to keep it front and center. Oh, so that people are
Unknown Speaker 14:04
like, in a way, it's we've had over 2 million views of the summit's, which is just like scratching the surface. So thank you for that challenge. Challenge accepted. I'm not giving up I am doing a lymphatic summit and I'm doing a biological dental dental summit because I think those are two things that are not talked enough about but my heart is always going to be here with CBOE because I have a big heart. I can talk about other things too, but the CBOE is So, look, from the age of five, I've had it so yeah, I just figured it out. That's been a whole lifetime of obnoxious feeling. So I absolutely am going to continue I was just doing I just did six radio shows yesterday. NPR in Utah, Kentucky, Hudson Valley in New York. It was so cool. And I'm not I'm not stopping I'm not gonna be like, oh, launch now. It's all over. I'm just not gonna Yeah, if it doesn't it, does it. No, no, this is going to be like book launch every single day. I am totally totally thrilled to have it all here. And and also like those summits ranged anywhere from 59 to 200 bucks. Here's 20 bucks people on here.
Eric Rieger 15:11
And yeah, like I said earlier, it's just so easy to read. And I think that sometimes people get a little turned off when they only read things that are written medically and didactically. Like it's, it's about someone it's not from someone who's had that journey. And your book is definitely from someone who's had that journey. I mean, do you want do you want to learn the pathway to, you know, to happiness from someone who's done it or someone who's read about it said, I think it's that way? Well, yours is definitely one of someone who has suffered, like many do and who's had their schedules compromised, your plans, sorted, etc, simply because of CBOE. And you walk us through exactly why you think that you ended up there and what someone can do about it. And that's really what people want to know when they come to the clinic. Absolutely. And
Ken Brown 15:59
what I love about your book is that you have certain aspects, which are the little gray boxes, yes, which are just kind of pearls. And more importantly, you say how to use my book, like this is how to use the book. So you have this way of saying, This is my story, if you want to get into it, that's fine. This is what I recommend. This is what the experts recommend. This is the science part of it. So it's it's almost a guide that people can go back and forth to so it's, I want to read it once get the story. And I'm going to go back and use the book as a guide to help me get through this.
Unknown Speaker 16:35
I really appreciate that observation, because that is exactly what I was intending it to be. And on page 111. There is that protocol or the algorithm that Dr. Pimentel created that Dr. Sanford Lewis added to and Dr. C Becker attitude I even added to it. And this is we call it the Siebel recovery roadmap, which is also the name of the course Dr. C. Becker and I created and it takes you through everything where to test when to treat, what if that didn't work? Go back to you know, it's like a game right? Not really. But it this is the guide. So that is the whole book is based on that the whole course Evo recovery roadmap is based on that as well. And, you know, 21 days, people, it's gonna take longer than 21 days. Okay, I'm just gonna tell you that right now, we were given a really good start. And you can make a plan in that 21 days. So
Ken Brown 17:25
this is not a spoiler alert, but it is kind of a spoiler. Alright, so it is a spoiler alert, if you're, if you're going to read the book, just press mute here because the the book, I mean, it grabs you right away. And then it really, really peaks and just nailed you on page 47. That's probably my favorite page. by far my favorite page on 46. very bottom of 40. A book completely peaks at 46. And does a good job of maintaining From then on, but really, at 46 is really when
Eric Rieger 17:58
we get to print, we have a pre Super Bowl party just to sit around and read page four.
Ken Brown 18:03
Yeah, we're gonna read page 46. That's when she mentioned my name. So
Unknown Speaker 18:07
I was Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 18:11
You're gonna go to page 46. And about Asan to Eric, I'm your name. I'm so sorry.
Eric Rieger 18:18
That's okay. That's okay. I really want people to come over to the house before the game and talk about
Ken Brown 18:25
that was not really a spoiler that was just thank you for mentioning me in your book. That was very, very kind of you. That was very sweet. And actually, that's, there's many, many other highlights in the book besides page 46. But go to page 46.
Unknown Speaker 18:40
I should have made it longer and bigger. There it is. Um, yeah, I think you're also on page 220 as well. Oh,
Ken Brown 18:49
I missed
Unknown Speaker 18:50
219 Oh, gosh, I hope so. I hope you're in there. Yeah. Dr. Ken Brown.
Unknown Speaker 18:54
There we go.
Unknown Speaker 18:57
So what can I say?
Ken Brown 18:59
All right. So one thing that I would like to do because you're the voice of CBOE as far as my world, all my patients tell you, oh, oh my gosh, I had a patient today that I telemedicine visit. And I said, Yeah, this is really exciting. We're going to be interviewing Shavasana and she goes, Oh, I was on her summit, and she told me to make an appointment with you and she lives in Texas, so she could do a telemedicine. So because of you She made it a point with me and she got so excited. Like, like, I was like this celebrity whisperer. She's like, you know, shavon I'm like, Well, yeah. And she's like, Oh my gosh, this is so cool. I'm gonna watch this. It's gonna be really neat. So what I really what I really liked was the beginning because honestly, you and I have worked together for a few years now and it's always been in the medical aspect. I loved your story. Would you mind just telling who Shavasana is and why you ended up here.
Unknown Speaker 19:58
Okay, so There are many aspects to Shivani Varna one of them the multifaceted jewel that she is. Well, basically, you know, my parents are my dad's from India. My mom is Irish and Welsh from upstate New York. And they met in the 50s. And in a New York Times ad, because this is relevant to not just like my life strike, because my father ran this incredible business called the Bell's Sarna. And if you're of a certain age, you know what they are. They're the brass bells that the hippies loved. And I have an incense named after me and yes, man, I, you know, I like I've already arrived the incense, you know. That is like, wah, wah. Anyway. My mom was upstate New York. She went to work. In the big city, she had a merchandising background. He wanted her to run his showroom back then, and she would not work for him because he was not going to pay her, which I love and his family legend. However he did caught her and they did get married. And he was 30 years her senior and of another culture and was older than her mother. And father's is very, yeah, he was born in the 1800s. Okay, so I was born when he was 69 years old. Oh, my, oh, my 30 year age difference anyway. So we would go on buying trips to India, they would and I would obviously, as a little kid, get schlepped along and I would go and you know, I've been to India a bunch of times as a child. I got really, really sick. And as you can imagine when my little baby microbiome, and you're drinking water buffalo milk and just Who knows? So anyway, I got really sick. I just
Ken Brown 21:55
want to stop there for a second Eric said sure. Like, of course water buffalo milk. Why not?
Eric Rieger 21:59
Is that not something you saw? Yeah,
Ken Brown 22:03
I just thought, Wow, there it goes. Sure. Yeah, of course. indicator. We do water buffalo all the time.
Eric Rieger 22:09
Oh, no. Do we do dry buffalo? Okay,
Ken Brown 22:13
go on. sighs
Unknown Speaker 22:14
Why? Anyway, then I came back, right? A little kid. We lived in Manhattan. We went on field trips, right from this fancy Dalton school. I went to like super chic school. Anyway, we would milk the cows like little city kids at this farm in upstate New York. They had us drink some of the milk just like a sip, you know, no big deal. But man, I got so sick. Really? Oh my gosh, it was so sick. And like things weren't the same. They just were not the same. And I remember my mom had a poster with a quote on it in the bathroom like as a decorative thing. And it was the first thing as a person that I'd ever memorized because it was bottom line is my father being Indian asked my mom like cheban going enough, you know, because like, there are a Vedic perspective, you gotta be going to be healthy. And mom was like, all of a sudden really worried. And that was the first time I experienced shame around the bathroom. Because like they were just a little bit too invasive enough. Five years old. I'd like it you know, mind your beeswax. Okay, get out of my does. But that was the first memory I have of that. And then it has just been like, I'm not great the rest of my life and I'm a skinny person and in college we would call my stomach Buddha belly, all the guards and perspective Buddha. But it was just like a thing like skinny person bloated belly. And I used to also see those posters of Sally Struthers you remember her and she would like save the child and they have these little kids with these big distended bellies. Right? Be like, look like that. Like, yay, what's that? Am I okay? Anyway, not that not as severe, of course. But I fast forward, moved into a sorority house at the University of Florida and realized that my patterns were definitely different than everybody else. But I was doing okay, got into life got, you know, career, big career on TV 20 years at HSN home shopping network for those of you who are not my demographic and and you are not my demographic. And, you know, I was starting to get really, really sick towards you know, the past like seven, seven years or so. And I was like, the slimware was not working to hold the belly and the bloat in and I was really getting concerned like I started to think maybe I had cancer. I just didn't know. And I insisted, thank goodness, he listened to me in a way my gastroenterologist I like begged for a What do they call, you know, endoscopy? No the other one and asked the colonoscopy stupid. Yeah, this is me doing a demo of a colonoscopy.
Ken Brown 25:04
I begged for him to play a violin and
Eric Rieger 25:09
I wanted him to conduct a
Unknown Speaker 25:11
mock up. So anyway, um, so I begged him to do this because I thought I was dying. I thought he's gonna go in there and he's gonna see something and it was like the day before Christmas Eve, it was like right before Christmas. I got the last appointment beforehand. And I thought, Oh, well, this is the year I find out that I'm dying. Something something's clearly wrong with me. And you know, after the colonoscopy and you're like, all drunk from the prop the proper fall. He's like, not I just saw nothing. It's fine. I'll see him like five years cheban I'm like, how is that possible? And why is it that I'm upset that I don't have a diagnosis right now? That is messed up. messed up. You should be thrilled. Answer That's awesome. Oh, I you know, I just kept trying to find the right doctors and the several I went to were like, here's an antidepressant You poor thing. Wink wink bless your heart run three miles like I can barely like get out of bed much was run run three mile I
Ken Brown 26:15
love that that you refer to that guys the run three miles doctor for several chapters.
Unknown Speaker 26:21
Yeah, I really don't even remember his name. I just remember that. He's retired now, which I think is best. So I did. Finally I was talking to my girlfriend at work. And she and I had this passing conversation because we were the weirdos who were gluten free. And you know, now it's much more prevalent, but like we really like got flack for being gluten free. Just to show you how like backwards. The situation was. And she's like, Oh, yeah, this really intense antibiotic right now for my gut. I'm like, What? And she goes, Yeah, breathe into these test tubes. And then I'm on this serious antibiotic and like immediately here, serious antibiotic and your brain shuts down and I go, I'm not gonna do that. But I couldn't get it out of my head. I called her. I was like, What are you talking about? She told me to the best of her ability. And I asked the doctor for a breath test had the breath test for CBOE they interpreted it wrong. It literally said negative and I could see the handwriting scratch. No, it said positive and it was scratched out. And new handwriting was there that said negative, which is totally wrong. It was positive. But I lost 18 months, right? And you know, when you when you're in this quest mode of trying to find out what's wrong with you. Knowing what you're not dealing with is just as important is knowing what you are dealing with. So I was misinformed for those 18 months. Anyway, I finally got the right person and did another breath test. And it was so freakin positive. It was, you know, irrefutable, and started treatment and was never told that you might have to do multiple rounds. So here I am taking my Rifaximin I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna get better. And after the two weeks, 10 days, I was not better. I was not better. I was confused. And I'm like, hey, it didn't work. I've never had an antibiotic, like not work. And then I got I was like, wait a minute misinformation. I'm not getting the whole story. I'm gonna have to do some research here. And that's really what I mean, there was a lot of research beforehand. But when that first round of antibiotics didn't work, I realized something, something's wrong here. Like, I'm gonna have to become my own advocate. So I started printing out the studies, I would like walk into the appointments with them, I'd be like, Look, here's the treatment right here, you need to give me another round and I need some neomycin as well, dear. And my doctor was amazing, was very open. And now he's basically a sumo expert. And he has a mixed emotion about all the patients that go to him at from my family with a lot of really difficult cases now, but that's so that's it, I took the IBS smart test, I found out that I definitely had post infectious IBS, which was a relief because I do my pro kinetic religiously. And even though I have the underlying cause of post infectious IBS, meaning that from food poisoning, I have thebault the fact that I am dealing with it and treating it with my mo Tegrity pyrokinetic I feel percent better and that's part of the message that is really important is like you might not be cured on paper. It's a different mindset. But if you're managing your condition, you can feel 100% better than a than a condition on treated and you as medical professionals know that but I just want other patients to hear that
Eric Rieger 29:50
man that's awesome, honestly, because when you tell that story, it's it seems it is it's very unique to you because that you're the one experiencing it. However For the patients who come through with long term CBOE, they when I hear the stops, and I didn't know, and I just wanted to find out, even if I found out what it wasn't, it's almost like everyone who starts off with CBOE or severe IBS. They're just a long line of hurdles, that for years, you just simply had to jump over or push down to finally get to some kind of answer. And that's, that's, that's who ends up in our clinic. 100%. And that's why I wanted you to tell your story, because I felt that your intro of the book was it although the names are a little slightly different, the timeframe, slightly different, but every one of my patients has such a similar story. I'm usually the third or fourth doctor that they come to see. And they have that they have that response, which is that they feel that they are being dismissed, they're being placated. It's, you know, and they're moving on. And
Ken Brown 30:54
the interesting thing is that much like you and intelligence, strong person that, you know, is successful, they know that something's wrong. And they're like, Look, I get that you're a doctor, but I'm telling you, it's like when it's like when a mother knows that something's wrong with their child, you don't argue just okay, I'm missing something, right. And that's how I feel about that. So when somebody comes up and says, and it is an I challenge you and everyone in this book that's involved with this, because this is going to be a moving target, that we all have to continue to evolve and move through this because you covered so many important things in this book. So that's your story. And then you get into I just want to go over the book a little bit. Because if if somebody's listening to this, and they're like, Well, I I was told I have irritable bowel syndrome. I mean, how do I know that I have this? Well, the first chapter you have is really basic, what is CBOE period, and you just, you just cut to the chase, which I love because I'm very myopic. By the time I see people, they've already done their homework. They've already been to your summit. They've already heard this, but you took a step back and you're like, Look, this is what is CBOE. I'm going to tell you the basics here. So we're going to cover the basics. And then not to like get too far ahead in the book, but then you went through and you covered things like some pretty intense stuff, relapsing remitting CBOE pots, stuff like that. So what I really love is that you tell your story, and then you said, Okay, this is my journey, this is what I learned. I'm just gonna lay it out there. And then these are what the experts say, in the gray boxes, you said, I interview this person, this is what they suggest.
Unknown Speaker 32:38
Yeah, I, you know, we're very clear that I'm not a medical professional. I mean, I'm medically oriented in my brain, and I'm a yoga teacher. So I know some about the body. But this is for I wanted to write it for people who had never really taken the time to think about their intestines before. And I one of the NPR interviews, the person asked me, like, why is it that we don't pay more attention, like we feel unwell, maybe we have a round of diarrhea, we take our Maalox or whatever, and then we don't do anything until it happens again, and then we just get on this, this whole vicious cycle. And I've, I've really thought about this a lot. If my intestines were on the outside of my body, they would be so pretty. Alright, I wouldn't be like have the prettiest, I'd be so proud of them. Everybody would be like showing theirs off. And you know, they put hats on them and different colors and tattoos and who knows what else it'd be decorative. So the fact that they're on the inside of the body much like your teeth, right? You'd like you see these students back there? What's going on with your tonsils? Like that's, I don't think people think about that, because we're not staring at them. The way we are on the outer of our outside of our body. So I wanted to really write this for people who hadn't thought about it. And there's a section on learning how to prove Yes, there is a better way to do it. A tip for being lovers.
Ken Brown 34:00
Can I can I just stop you for a quick second, talking about if my intestines are on the outside. As a gastroenterologist and I know that you'll agree with this. Here's the deal, our outward presentation are outward, brain health are outward, everything is a reflection of our gut health. So if you're somebody that's battling rosacea, if you're somebody that's battling acne, if you're somebody that has brain fog, or these different things you covered in your book, so although you say if my guts around the outside, really we do manifest our guts on the outside, in the way that we interact with the world. So
Unknown Speaker 34:36
brilliant, Lord, He is there. It is there, but we have to make the connection. We have to make the connection. And you know, I'm sitting here talking to you and I don't have brain fog right now. But at one point, my brain fog was so bad and scared my husband so much because I could not speak it wasn't for a long period. of time, it was just a couple of times where I literally couldn't talk. And it scared the crap out of him. And it scared me. And then I was for a small period of time also memorable. stuttering, because I just, it just couldn't come out. And I speak for a living. So that really scared us. But it, it's real, you guys, it's real, you're not crazy, you are absolutely in have every right to good medical, you know, assistance, you are just a message to other patients, you may have to drive the bus for a while.
Eric Rieger 35:36
And I love the fact that you just use the word that you're not crazy, because so many times we see people who've either been told that that's what they are, or that they are overly anxious or they are severely depressed. And that happens to be the route that someone goes to. And truthfully, they may be experiencing anxiety or depression. But just as both of y'all just said, it's really just a manifestation of a, it's there's an oven down there. And it's it's creating inflammation everywhere, and it's affecting the brain. And it's unfortunate because we need to begin to heal by taking care of the gut. So
Ken Brown 36:12
on our previous podcast, we interviewed a well, as soon to be PhD, who her specialty is in looking at gut inflammation affecting the brain. And what we can show is, and you actually talked about it in your book with the lipid polysaccharides. And things like that. Brain fog is actually a result of TNF alpha different inflammatory mediators that cross the blood brain barrier. So when people go, and they they beat themselves up, and they say, you know, my gosh, I, why can't I do this? Sometimes it's out of your control. And sometimes it's because you have an inflammatory process starting in your gut, crossing your brain. So when you say, somebody that is a TV personality that struggled to find her words, that's your livelihood. That's not a fake thing you like that was real. That's scary. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 37:05
What was it very scary. I happen to have been doing it on my day off. So it wasn't like I had to go into work that afternoon. And I have good history of like, being able to sleep it off. Like if I don't feel well, I take a nap. I'm often better. Because that's just like, my body does a lot of work when I sleep. But it Yeah, it's Look, if you're in a banking situation, or you're a nuclear chemist, or something, you have to be thinking about, and you've got to have clarity. Not to mention, it's so hard to show up, right? It's so hard to show up for your loved ones and for yourself. And, you know, the thought of running three miles or even like doing some fitness for myself at that time was practically impossible, because I was just like surviving. Now, it did have something else going on at the same time, which I didn't realize until later. And that is that the television studio was infested with mold. Oh, yeah. So that is my opinion. That has not been proven. That is my opinion. However, I definitely have mold poisoning. I definitely have that. And so that made everything worse. And I think I ended up getting a lot worse with my CBOE and having those extra brain issues temporarily as they may have been, when the mold really started to you know, the bucket over was overflowing with that.
Ken Brown 38:28
Well, in your book, you also described the hours you're working, the stress you're under. I mean, it was the perfect storm, immune system to an end, everything comes down to inflammation, everything comes down inflammation. So if the inflammation is in your gut, it goes to your brain. If your body's reacting to mold, mycotoxins same thing, it's you, you unfortunately, were put in a situation that your immune system could not handle and yeah, or over handle. Let's put it that way over. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 39:03
exactly. That's when the psoriasis came and all that I have other friends that work there that don't don't have any symptoms of mold whatsoever. I have other friends that are like, you know, they walk in and their eyes are running whatever the situation is. But it's interesting because they're definitely people who are not impacted by it.
Eric Rieger 39:23
But chances are, wouldn't it be something that would be important that if you don't have a healthy gut, and let's say that you do suffer from severe IBS or cebo you are now compromised, you will not be able to handle circulating mycotoxins otherwise had you had your gut been healthy and where it needed to be optimized. You may have never even noticed the compounding aspects of mycotoxins.
Unknown Speaker 39:47
Exactly, exactly. So it was the perfect storm. But you know, I, I want everyone to know there is hope there are answers there. You know, I think I do think Pimentel is gonna come With a cure, I really do, or at least, you know, big, big advances. I'm sorry, love a stat and didn't seem to work out. But we do have natural alternatives as well. Thank you very much. I'll try to.
Eric Rieger 40:13
You're hoping that
Unknown Speaker 40:14
what is that?
Eric Rieger 40:15
That looks pretty?
Unknown Speaker 40:18
Really cool. This is one of those incredible stories that some friends of mine have developed from a conversation about a cow. Tell us that story. Dr. Ken Brown, please.
Ken Brown 40:30
The conversation involves a cow and Dr. Pimentel and I'm gonna go I'm gonna throw it right back to Dr. Pimentel. I mean, somebody that can take the concept of irritable bowel, which is a trash can, and then figure out that it comes down to bacteria. I love that guy. And I think you're right, I think he's gonna figure it out. And because him and I were working together, I was involved in the original studies ends I faccin. Trying to do it naturally is sort of my goal. And so everyone has their mission, I want to try and figure out how to heal people naturally. And the tannins in Toronto have been shown to help with bloating, irritable bowel and CBOE also, and which is why we got page 46. And page 219. Go read the book. It's amazing. Probably the best part of the whole book, because that's a whole separate discussion.
Eric Rieger 41:20
Is there a reason why we didn't bring up water buffalo, and we're only talking about?
Ken Brown 41:24
But so chevonne, a couple of the things that I found really cool about your book, which my patients struggle with. And I love that you had a chapter on his cebo controlling my weight. Yeah, if I have one complaint, it's that patient say I'm eating less and still gaining weight. And you had a whole chapter on it. And I admire you for taking that on because you covered it in a very scientific way. I love that. Can you comment on that?
Unknown Speaker 41:52
Oh, thank you so much. You know, there are two parts of that. One is that and I had never really thought about this until someone in my facebook group wrote me an email that said, Hey, Sean, you're talking about overweight a lot. You're not paying attention to those of us who are underweight. And you know, ours is, you know, not a vanity issue, we could die. And it was a big wake up call for me. So in this chapter, I do address underweight for those of you who are listening. I mean, my heart goes out to you 110%, please don't give up. For those of us who struggle with our weight on the other side. Dr. Pimentel, his wife is also a researcher. And she is doing a lot of studying about how methane actually a methane dominant or IMO, actually, those little ARCA rkip, okay, are absorbing your calories at a higher rate than other things. So you could be eating the same thing someone else is eating, you could have a twin, assuming all things were also equal. And if you had IMO, and they didn't, your little guys would be absorbing more calories than someone with a different microbiome. And so that can lead to weight gain, which I found fascinating and deeply depressing, by the way.
Ken Brown 43:13
Well, it's it's really interesting, because there's lots of fecal microbial transplant studies. Yeah, twins have had that do to ulcerative colitis and things I actually have a I actually have a patient that the twin got the FMT from the non ulcerative colitis. And then the twin started gaining weight developing, acting, developing polycystic ovary disease, things that she didn't have, that the other twin did, it did help her colitis. So it is really it's a very complex thing, the whole microbiome and the environment. But you did a really good job of explaining in the book about how complex it is, and how it's so much of this is out of our control. So please don't get frustrated. That's not what I really got out of your book. Don't, don't blame it on yourself. A lot of this is out of your control. Try control the environment, the epigenetics, and the doctors that you go see.
Unknown Speaker 44:11
Exactly. And that if you don't find the right doctor right away, keep going. I do here in our Facebook group, which you know, has over 17,000 people in it, and it's just it's an amazing community. I do hear sometimes despair, and just an unwillingness to do the next thing that they actually logically know is the right thing to do next, but they're exhausted. And they aren't even acknowledging their exhaustion. They're just like, I've tried everything I spent $10,000, which I can totally relate. But Dr. Steve Becker has this thing which is very simple. And she's and it's in the book I know. And it's Have you tried really everything like everything. It's very rare that someone's tried everything you could possibly do. And there are other options and don't quit before the miracle, right? You hang in there, keep at it there. What if we only have like one thing or we didn't even have, as I Faxon or Shawn deal to deal with it, we have a variety of choices. The herbal antibiotics have been studied, the pharmaceuticals have been studied elemental diet, to be miraculous for you are drawn to is miraculous for so many people. So the fact that you have all of these choices, I think is huge, huge, huge, huge. I'm not trying to be Pollyanna, but I am just trying to do a little bit of perspective change. And, and, and just encourage you to keep going keep keep I we call it spinning the plate in the industry of when like my my family and the gift registry, you spin the plate like well, you have the mashed potatoes, now you gotta sell them the peas now you gotta you just have to keep going.
Eric Rieger 46:01
I think you just described it, it's CBOE and IBS, they, they're complex problems. And complex
Ken Brown 46:07
problems require some complex solutions. It didn't generally happen overnight. And, and addressing all that is is incredibly important. So one thing Shivam that you did hit on on your book also that I'm seeing a whole lot of, even if you're a super tough person, and you just brush off all of this and say whatever so I'm bloated, it is what it is. I got a family out of I got to work I'm going to do things. I'm seeing that the inflammation caused by this can lead to a domino effect. Ultimately, which could be autoimmune disease, but also I'm seeing this this constellation of what you what you tapped on, which is this dysautonomia pots, probably, you know that the whole thing leading and so I'm seeing this constellation of Ehlers danlos people that then they started with cebo, then suddenly were diagnosed with Ehlers danlos. And then they go see a cardiologist to diagnose him with pots, and then all of a sudden, we're talking about maules syndrome, medium arcuate ligament syndrome. And it's this constellation where you're like, wait a minute, you were normal. Five years ago, yeah. And now we're talking about this crazy constellation of symptoms. We need to you know, it's that whole thing of a walk it off. No, you need to rest you need to figure it out, you need to fix it before this becomes something more like an autoimmune disease.
Unknown Speaker 47:41
Right. It's it, you know, I have mild Ehlers danlos, like, you know, legitimately diagnosed by a specialist. And you know, I can do this whole thing with the thumb. And you know, it's I don't have I know, people have, some people can't walk from it, it's really an insidious scenario. But if it started to feel like oh, I've got psoriasis, I've got a list and loves, I have the mold, I have old Lyme, I have old EBV. So I can totally relate to that, that there is a way forward to at least feel better, right, at least feel better. And you do have to take really good care of yourself. And the other thing, you know, you're also teaching other people how to treat you by how you treat yourself. And there are two things I wish my parents had done. And my parents were amazing, amazing. I wish they had taught me how to save money. And I wish that they had exercised regularly and made that a habit for me. And those are the two things. I mean, it really obviously, look, if that's my biggest complaint, I'm doing great in terms of my early childhood, but you have to teach other people how to treat you and you have to take time to do the things that you weren't taught. So maybe that is doing the yoga class or just like frickin 15 minutes a day of a walk or shutting the door or whatever, or meditating or playing your favorite music and dancing in the living room. I really don't care what it is as long as you really claim it and use it as a healing tool for yourself. Because in that quiet, that's when that super thinking can happen. Now I'm a big meditator and that has definitely saved my life. There's no doubt about it. And I talked about some apps and some places on the web where you can learn how to meditate. But even just that act of cleaning 15 minutes a day is so powerful and I believe it starts a velocity of other positive things.
Ken Brown 49:37
I would say I love that absolutely love that and I get made fun of by my family. I get made fun of by my friends. But the one thing that I'm teaching my children is that do not discount any idea until you number one researcher number two try it. So I will come back I'll be like other beautiful Cast and there'll be a random packages showing up from Amazon heard a podcast we're gonna try this now. So it's become a running joke in my family. But it the the nonsense sits down and the gold kind of stays up top and we saw no we call that we breathe, we do stuff and I'm and I'm I say this not so much for me and my kids I say this to my colleagues, don't just pat somebody on the head and say the scope was negative, you're fine because I've learned a ton in the last I've learned a ton from you. Yeah, I've learned a ton from you know, Dr. C. Becker, Dr. Russo, Dr. Pimentel, all these fantastic people that have taken the time to learn things and then put them in a readable format, so that we can all learn from it. Traditionally trained gastroenterologist like myself, I run into my colleagues that their initial knee jerk is, oh, there's no science on that. Well, there is you just haven't taken the time to look at it. So my, what you say is what I wish my parents would have taught me. You're, what you did is you took everything great that your parents taught you, and you took it to the next level, which is, which is the legacy that you're doing, and you're doing an amazing job of that what I'm trying to do is teach my kids. I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but I'm having an open mind. And just believe and try it. If it doesn't work, no harm, no foul.
Unknown Speaker 51:35
But those are great steps in the right direction. For sure. Thank you guys so much for having me. Don't forget to pick up your artron tail at CBOE SOS comm slash shop, we have one of the best prices in the world.
Eric Rieger 51:49
So I'm gonna say it again, go to CBOE sls.com. To link up with chevonne. And then in shop, we should go ahead and say it's one of the best deals that you can get an electron to period.
Ken Brown 52:01
Alright, so chevonne has been a huge supporter of us from day one. And we are a huge supporter of her. So if you're gonna buy ultra until this is,
Eric Rieger 52:11
and this is, you know what, while we've been talking, I just thought about it. It's not just how to heal from CBOE This is really how to improve your quality of life. If you're a player. I mean, you said it yourself it sometimes it comes down to management until something better comes along. But each day, we only have so many days. And if I can improve my quality of life, and this is something that is affecting me. This is how I improved my quality of life. And we talked about we talked about healthspan and healthspan versus lifespan you want you want good health for as long as you're alive.
Unknown Speaker 52:46
Yeah, that is
Ken Brown 52:48
very worried. Sorry, interruption on I just want to add that if if if if you're sitting here and you're like, well, I can't eat anything really. You can't eat honey macaroons which are dairy free, gluten free, not free. Yeah, there's a recipe for that bad boy. You've got some, some killer recipes are really, really good.
Unknown Speaker 53:07
They're really good. And I did, I created them with Christie Regan, who has written like two or three CBOE cookbooks who's a CBOE nutritionist who's a fantastic human being. And I would eat her food when I would go to Portland, Oregon. And because that's where she's located. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I really need your help with this cookbook. And so we've created these together, and she made sure they tasted really good. And then I have the blessing of a woman who's helping me the house right now, because I'm trying to do these other summits and do a couple of other products. She's been helping me with creating some of my food. I just handed her a book. I'm like, here, I need this food. This is it. And I've been re tasting it. And I've been thrilled and very relieved. It is delicious. A long time ago, I just had that Green Goddess dressing with a slab of celery, yum. I mean, it's legitimately really delicious. But I promised I would not say that. If I did mean I'd be like, Okay, fantastic.
Ken Brown 54:07
One last thing I want to I want to talk about your book, which is really awesome. Not only do you have a bunch of recipes to do this, but you really do have a 21 day plan where day by day you go through and you say this is what you're going to do. And you're going to walk people through just as if you were like a a personal trainer, and you said you're gonna have this on this day, you're going to eat this. It's amazing. So it's like it's basically a no brainer. People are going to read the first part, they're gonna go Okay, now I understand it. And then the middle part, you're saying, This is what you're going to do to fix it. And then the back part, this is what you're going to do to keep yourself healthy going on. It's great. It's a great book. It's awesome.
Eric Rieger 54:47
Gentlemen, thank you so much. chevonne for joining us, this is Shavasana healing CBOE and you want people to buy the book at Amazon. Correct.
Unknown Speaker 54:56
Amazon, wherever booksellers you know, find booksellers Barnes Although there are tons of places, but if you do buy it on Amazon, please do leave a review. And be sure to come to see Bo SOS calm to get the best deal on auto scale.
Ken Brown 55:08
And remember if you leave a review just mentioned that page 46 is the best page in the book.
Eric Rieger 55:14
Yes. Big fan. That is Episode 50. gut check project fans, thank y'all so much for joining us. shavon. Thank you so much for all of your support, introducing us to have you introduced us to and I'm certain that we'll do this again. So,
Ken Brown 55:28
absolutely. So where do they go to get entrepreneurial from them
Eric Rieger 55:30
go to CBOE sos.com. And of course, we'll always have it in our show notes so that you'll know exactly where to go. And you go to the shop button. If you happen to go to the homepage and you can find it right there.
Ken Brown 55:44
That's awesome. shavon I once again, thank you much love. You are the voice of CBOE and I feel like you're just getting warmed up. Awesome.
Unknown Speaker 55:53
Yeah, baby. Thank you guys so much. Bye bye.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Bienvenidos Ah, this is where no, sorry, I screwed it up. So I got really nervous. It's like the lights came on. Okay.
Remember, we're actually saying that Yeah.
Okay, there we go. Three. You ready? Oh, yeah. Okay. Three, two on bmnh Oh, god check project. Your soy, Eric. Esta Dr. Brown,
Dr. Brown Como estas Morgana, grassy asmita story super emotional o por el podcastone tenemos en invitado fantastical. gephi ancestors that podcast story.
Sylvia done this style of video.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, guys, I can't speak English. Oh, okay.
Oh, thank goodness cuz I'm pretty sure that's all the Spanish Eric knew. And banyo I got that down too. So why don't we Why don't we start over and just take it from the top in English. Now that we know that our wonderful guest who lives in Spain to learn all about That's right. actually speaks English. Okay, probably should have figured that out. Before we started the podcast
guys. I'm gonna start all over. So welcome gut check project fans and KB MD health family. It's now episode number 49. I'm Eric. This is my awesome co host Dr. Kenneth Brown. And today we've got an incredible special guest that I tried. I you know, I can't I tried Spanish.
I tried. You did so Eric. Eric dusted off his eighth grade Spanish. He was trying to impress Silvia you know, I mean, we're both a little nervous because what what we have on the podcast today is super special. Everybody has heroes in their life and Silvia is my hero because she is a poly phenol expert. She's getting her doctorate in specifically the polyphenols that we use on Tron teal. So she knows more about it than anybody I've ever met. And I'm so excited and nervous that we actually tried to speak in her native her native language.
I'm just embarrassed that but there'll be a welcome to the show. Welcome to go check project. Thank you so much for making
videos.
She said y'all she's trying to
learn some Texas now first of all, Silvia get us up to speed you're living in Granada Spain. What is going on there? You You WhatsApp to me You guys got a little earthquake situation right?
Yeah, we were we were we were that weights. But now where? We stay better here. Fortunately, visitation is is better.
You said it so calm. When you just WhatsApp you're like, oh, things are good. Here. We're dealing with a lot of earthquakes. Thanks for asking. Tough in Spain.
We used to.
So this is this is super cool. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I have followed your work. Some of the work that you have done as the lead author I have used we've discussed it on multiple podcasts. If you've seen Episode 47 Episode 46 multiple other episodes, we always refer to the large stable polyphenols and how they get broken down by the microbiome and the purse that articles that always reference. This is the author of those articles. Sylvia Molino, who is I almost called you doctor but you're almost a doctor, right? almost almost.
Nice. Nice. Hey, so
why don't you tell us a bit about your background how you ended up there? What's going on? Everything Everything about Silvia Molino.
Okay, so I am a biologist. I got my master's degree in Italy. But I the my train sheep here in Granada, where we started working with embitter. And they're just in implementation. And I fell in love with this argument. And then in one Congress, I met Michaela Battaglia is the CEO of silica team, that Britain is a b2b company that produced what the word leader is producing tannins that are polyphenols, sure, and he got interested in my work. So we started collaborating and and then we had the idea to create a new project to investigate the application of tannins in humans. And so I just started with my PhD working on that, and I'm still working on that and we have continuing on that
Yeah, that's awesome. So when you when you first hopped into it, were polyphenol something that drew your interest in their immediate applications for for health or is it something that just kind of just happened over time? What was it that drew you into wanting to study about polyphenols?
Well, um, I ever I always have been interesting in polyphenols about more in general about nutraceutical okay, because I believe that we could treat some diseases or some dysfunction with natural product, because actually, we are using a lot of synthetic treatment, but they were discovered from studying nature. So sometimes I think that we could go back to the power of nature. And in this case, 10 is
absolutely Well honestly, the timing really couldn't be better and where we find ourselves not just in the United States, but obviously all the way around the world for us to find and escape from synthetic solutions to what otherwise are just natural problems. And if probably we were consuming more polythene hauls as a you know, for the entire earth we would be in better shape. Yeah.
Repeat that.
Eric was just saying that you're exactly right. We have always we have a we have felt that the consumption of polyphenols is what what we're lacking in the western American diet. If we had more polyphenols we would have better health.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah,
I was just gonna say you use the word nutraceutical, which is, which is interesting because we've, we've coined that term, but what does nutraceutical mean to you as a scientist?
Wow, it's a hard question for me and you're just starting over is a solution that could be assumed for from a person by person. Like it will be a part of the natural diet like it will be a tude. Okay, so something more natural.
Okay, so a functional food, nutraceutical interesting, a molecule that can have health benefits, but it's found in nature?
Yeah, exactly.
And so you through your research, you found that these beautiful molecules called polyphenols have hold all this potential to be bioactive and possibly a nutraceutical for humans. So, for anybody that has not heard this, can you explain in your words what a poly phenol is?
Well, polyphenols are molecules if we can find in a network, obviously, the name derives from the chemical structure and they are well known for the multiple by activities beneficial by activities. First of all, they are antioxidant, they are what non antioxidant. And this is a super important characteristic of them because they help us to counteract the action of the oxidative stress. The oxidative stress is a normal events that we have that happens in our bodies, and can lead to a lot a lot of diseases and a lot of problems.
So leading to like inflammation, is that kind of what you're talking about there with long exposures of oxidative stress?
Well, can you repeat, please?
Sure. Are you saying that oxidative stress leads to inflammation, like more inflammation around tissues? Is that what you're saying?
Yeah, for sure. Well, normally we our normal metabolism, I produce free radicals. Okay. And this normal normal process of power rally, but what happens if we produce a high amount of, of these free radicals, and it's normal to breathe in sometimes to produce a lot of free radicals. And the causes could be external factors, such as stress or bad diet, for example, we have some endogenous mechanisms of our body to counteract these production of oxidative stress done by the free radicals, but these are not sufficient and are not not the most of the times. So we need to intake somehow. From from external hub. And in this case, we have to take antioxidant. And antioxidant we can find, for example, polyphenols, other one on the oxygen, for example, our could be vitamin C, Vitamin E. But from our study, for example, we could discover that time knees, among other 43 years has exert a higher activity than this well known molecules, such as vitamin C. So we could, in this case, it is a smaller amount of external external compounds and not enough to not have to have the same effect. So it's so great.
Okay, now it makes it makes a lot of sense. Very congruent.
Yeah, it absolutely does. So when we talk about these polyphenols and you brought up tannins, which is what your research has been in, we know that people that are discussing polyphenols, the molecules that make vegetables colorful, there are different sizes and different characteristics as a researcher that you have figured out, can you explain the differences in sizes, characteristics and antioxidant capabilities? Just real grossly and then we'll talk about some of your research because I think it's so cool. Getting the foundation like this.
Yeah, I'm on point he knows Wait, what polyphenols are a huge group of molecules. Among them we can find tannins and tannins are one known for the characteristic to the capacity to bind and precipitate protein alkaloids and carbohydrates among other molecules. Among tannins, we can have hydrolyzable tannins and condensed hominids, the realizable Chinese are called like that because they are the they are either realizable, with a lot of facility with weak weak assets. Among these group, we could find Gulf tannins, and a lot of tannins, depending on the different structure nucleus that we can find in the in the in the compounds. And when we don't have a generalizable tannins we have so condensed tannins destructors are characterized by the presence of Brandis entities that can form a big big structure like with with bending blocks. Just explain in an easier way. And sometimes we could have also an association between advisable timings and condensed tannins. And so we have complex diamonds and the name was explained the complexity of the molecules because they we have in this case, big big big molecules.
So
the these molecules that are larger Danny's the alternates, and the contents on this are characterized by the presence of a lot of hydroxyl groups. And these groups are responsible of the antioxidant, the great antioxidant capacity of the planets. So it's also so important.
So let me pause you right there. So you're saying that the what makes these polyphenols unique the polyphenols under the big umbrella, or the large polyphenols proanthocyanidins which are in the class of tannins. They have tremendous antioxidant capacity because they have the hydroxyl groups, a bunch of them all around the hydroxyl group is the oh ah that you'll see in those chemistry structures are always there, hydroxyl. So you're saying that the the amount of hydroxyl groups is very important to the antioxidant component?
Yeah, definitely. And they can exert they are different activity in different way. For example, and thanks to the hydroxyl groups, they could they have the capacity to come in the free radicals. But in other cases they could have, they could have also our endogenous antioxidant system, for example, they can use the production of antioxidant enzymes that we can produce.
Like, is that like super oxide? dismutase? Is that one of them? The anti turning onto what is it? What is an example of a endogenous antioxidant enzyme that the tenant turns on?
Well, well, what I was saying before what what I was what I was explaining before About our endogenous response to the oxidative stress, we produce some antioxidant enzymes, okay, for example supersedure, dismutase, or catalase, okay? So we know that tannins among all therefore the females can in us increase the production of these enzymes, so reducing that oxidative stress in our body.
So it's twofold. It can basically bind to these weak acids, as well as make our bodies produce more of the enzymes to help basically combine these free radicals.
Onto production. Yeah,
that's awesome. And I think that once we get to your studies, we're gonna find it. That's not that's just the tip of the iceberg. That's
just tip of the iceberg. So everybody, so over here, Sylvia, there's shows like Dr. Oz, or he's always talking about different diets, and they're always talking about different compounds. They rarely discuss it as a polyphenol, but they'll have a show on green tea extract egcg, or they'll have a show on reservatrol. Or they'll do these different things. But these are all polyphenols. But what people don't understand is this complex science that you're an expert in, which is what I love, because I can sit with my patients, and explain to them why these these particular polyphenols whether in diet, we always ask everybody during their diet or through a supplement, do multiple things. And the tip of the iceberg is the potent antioxidant.
Yeah, totally. Because the the oxidative startles then could lead to multiple diseases, that will be chronic diseases or chronic inflammation. So in this case, we can counteract a lot of problems. Systemic levels, or at local level.
Now, the research when you when you teamed up with Michaela, had you been doing research on these polyphenols? Or did you take some of the research that Silva team had done with the animal studies? Because they've been involved with cattle in the wine industry for so many years? Was this? Was this a hard step to move from some of that research over to the data that we're going to talk about with your different studies?
Well, they have a great experience with with animals, they were they are working with animals from 15 years, maybe more or less. But it's true. Try to start working with with humans is always different, because the information that we have in animals could have, but it's not a reality is not a
translate, just because it happens in an animal doesn't mean it will happen in a human.
It's true. I wanted to say that. Okay, thank you. So, we're here, I started working with an in vitro system, just to study in the deep in the, in this Moore's more particles, because I wanted to know, how these molecules are acting and how they are metabolized. Because there are a lot of literature about tannins, but there, there still be big lack about the information because it's totally new this argument, this issue. So I first started working on the antioxidant activity of different extract. And then I proceeded to digest and ferment in vitro, just simulating that the digestion of the human body to try to drain to discover what's happening in our body when we intake tannins,
so I'm sorry, no, no. Well, how long have you been then working with Mikayla and Sylvia team then because what I'm curious about is since you started doing your research, and kind of what your observation is, or how you've seen the world's view possibly change or be influenced by powerful studies regarding polyphenols and their benefits with health what what have you seen while you've been working with Michaela, and has the has the are people more receptive to that idea?
Well, I started a six years ago, okay. And when I started, I have to be clear, I didn't know anything about tunings. I knew just the tunings about wine, wine, I'm Italian It was a total discover for me. Um, yeah. From my studies, I think that we discover a new product that could resolve a lot of problem. Above all, I think this is a great way discovered about InDesign. It is, I think the solution for all the problem, I don't know, maybe could be strange to understand. But I discovered a lot a lot of properties of time knees, because fundamentally, they have a prebiotic action. So they function like a fiber, they help our digestion, they can modulate the composition of our microbiota, and through that they can regulate our inflammatory status, our oxidative status, so it's perfect.
I think that's so incredible, because what we always hear about is just the antioxidant potential. So here from a marketing standpoint, a lot of people try and sell supplements, they go, this is an antioxidant, this has the highest antioxidant capacity. What you have discovered in your research is, these beautiful large molecules do so much more than that, which you just touched on right there, which is it functions like a prebiotic, meaning that it feeds our own microbiome. And we know that when we have a diverse microbiome, you end up having a healthier body all around. So when I started treating my patients with our combination of the cabrito, and chestnut, and we were seeing incredible results, I knew what was happening in the short term when we were getting the bacteria, the bacterial overgrowth. That's why we developed it. But so many of my patients felt better and better while remaining on it. And now I can explain to them because of your research, what's actually going on. And that's what's so cool. And that's what's so neat that most of the research that is done and you've You know, this are done on smaller phenolic compounds, those ones that we talked about. So they always talk about the same ones over and over course, the 10 reservatrol curcumin those, you took a step back and said, Wait a minute, let's find out what happens when we look at these larger molecules. Definitely. And you use the really cool term because I'm going to start using this building blocks the molecules just a large building block. Yeah. Which is awesome. The when, before we get into your research there, I had to plow through trying to trying to prepare for a paper and some and a podcast of really big article called the immunomodulatory, anti inflammatory antioxidant effects of polyphenols a comparative review on the parental compounds and their metabolites. It's like a 50 page article where all they did is show that no every time you take one of these polyphenols, it does more and it gets broken down into more things. And it was like really thick. And then you I found your article, which do you have more questions? Because I think one of the coolest
one of the things that you said that we've said on the show multiple times is you said the word prebiotic, and that's still not really a commonly used word here, at least in the States. Would you mind Silvia kind of explaining what you view is a prebiotic?
Yeah. Normally people know that term probiotic. And sometimes there's like a mistake between pre and probiotics. So I could explain it a probiotic. It is like a strange this, our bacteria normally are beneficial bacteria that we can intake. Normally with yogurt or the products. A prebiotic is something that is before the bacteria. So if something is a substance, or for example, fibers that could act on the on the composition of our microbiota. So we are not going to change the composition of our microbiota by taking some external strain of bacteria, but we just want to moderate what we have with prebiotic
makes sense. So basically, it's it's almost like the perfect food for the bacteria that we already have. Right? Yeah.
If we give to our microbiota, like a good food to to grow well, right.
What generally speaking since you've been doing research on this over here, probiotics. It's a massive industry. But just recently, a lot of data is coming out that probiotics probably don't do as much as we used to think, mainly because many of these probiotics that we purchase, don't make it to the colon where your microbiome is, what are with through your research? I'm just curious what your opinion is on probiotics in the use in humans? Well,
I think that each person has his own microbiota, and each person needs a specific strain of probiotic. And it's so difficult to do that. Because normally, what we can find in the supermarket is like last bifidobacterium more lactobacillus but is so general, we don't know if that strain is the right strain for us. In the other way, it prebiotic always is good, because it's helping our our on microbiota. So we are going to solve the problem for sure. Well, and then there are other technical problems, for example, the probiotics are not so resistant. So sometimes we can intake a product with probiotics, but they don't have done work. So good.
That makes sense.
Yeah, that's we've we've done a little bit of research on this, my personal belief is, is that when, when we look at probiotics, we at least know that certain things like a spore based probiotics stays in the spore form. And there is clinical data to show that it can make it to the colon where then it wakes up. And if it's got the prebiotic like a polyphenol with it, the combination helps both of them improve the microbial diversity, or basically they work together.
Actually, there's a paper that is in publication. So then I can send it to you. I always working with in vitro, they just send fermentation, I could demonstrate that the intake of tannins caught it improve the diversity of the of the microbiota.
It's perfect. That is huge. Hey, out of curiosity, if this paper since you've been doing some of that research, is it possible that not only will the tenants improve the diversity, but will it help raise good bacteria and lower the type of bacteria that we know can create problems?
Yeah, we have to know that tannins are really our molecules produced our secondary metabolites from plants. And these metabolites are produced from plants as defense. So these cues are produced to counteract the action of bad guys, such as bacteria, bad bacteria, or other other external factors. And and if we intake tennis is up in the same field. So they are able to detect the bad guys, the bad bacteria. And I don't want to say to kill them that reduce the amount or the activity. And the other part on the other part, they can increase the activity and the functionality of the code guy or the good bacteria.
That is awesome. Nobody has said that before like that.
No, they haven't. And in fact, it makes perfect sense, because it's not like and Sylvia said this earlier, it's normal for us to have reactive oxygen species, right. But in small amounts, what do tannins do, they keep us from having too much. So you're saying it's not eliminating all of the quote unquote, bad bacteria, it's more or less delivering balance, where we need balance
is a modulation.
That's beautiful. It's allowing mother nature to do what it's what it wants to you. We hinted at it at the beginning of the show, but what happens in the pharmaceutical industry is they go, Oh, we want this molecule, let's make a drug out of this tiny molecule and not taking into account that when you give the body what it wants, it will use what it needs to make sure that it keeps you in balance.
Yeah, I think that the great thing about the extra toe I'm working with from siba team is that they are Phyto complex. We are not working with just one specific molecule. We are working with a group of molecules so we have multiple action and multiple effect.
Let's say you have I have a paper on this specifically and and it really, really piqued my interest. And the reason is because you illustrated and then essentially gave the How to on why a larger parent molecule, which basically would have more of these smaller polyphenols is actually what your body wants, because simply, it begins to pull apart the polyphenols as it needs to use them. Is that is that right? Is that how Am I understanding that correctly?
Yeah, yeah, it's correct. and here we can find it another super characteristic often is because we can see that they could art at a local level in the InDesign as big molecule. And these big molecules are the molecules that are that are going into in contact with with a good microbiota. But when they are metabolized, they could give form to smaller metabolites. And these modern metabolites are the responsible doses possible of the systemic effects. Okay. They could pass them through the intestinal barrier, and then extra day they fashion and system 11 in the audience, there isn't
that kind of what you called post biopsies. So
yeah, that's we're referring to those metabolites as post biotics. So it's the post biotic or the metabolites or the break? Absolutely. So can you do me a favor? I'm, can you explain, I don't know if you can see that. But your little summary, the diagram, but this is what's so cool. And this is what separates Silvia from everybody else, she developed this super eloquent model, can you explain what you did with this, because it's so neat. With in vitro digestion?
Well, the in vitro digestion and fermentation are two basic steps. First of all, we have the digestion. In this case, we are mimicking what happened, what's happening in the mouse in the stone much and during this time, we mimic the temperature pH, enzymatic condition that we find in the in the mouth, and then in so much and then in time, okay, then what we obtain from the digestion we take apart, and we put it in contact with the microbiota within inoculum. And then we'll add a permanent state. And then from that, we obtain our sample that we are going to study. So from from these records, we have a resembling matters of that of the human digestion.
So in your diagram, so cool, you mixed one to one in the oral phase with salivary fluid, salivary amylase at a certain pH, then you mix it in the gastric phase with gastric fluid pepsin. So a digestive enzyme at a certain Ph. And then in the intestinal phase, you mixed it with intestinal fluid, including pancreatic fluids, like trypsin, and bile, that's fantastic. So all three phases of digestion, then you separated those, and you took one of them, and then you fermented it, to show what happens in the colon.
So this part is very important, which is is important to us. And we wrote a paper, I think, in a few days will be published in, in natural protocols.
That's incredible. So then you took this fermented you first of all, you took the digestion part, and then you analyze that and then you took the fermented part, you analyzed it, when you say analyzed it, what did you do to analyze it?
Well, we could perform every type of analysis, I dedicated my studies about the antioxidant activity of of tannins, just to see how can the digestion and then the fermentation could affect the antioxidant activity exerted by by by tannins, and then I try to understand how these big molecules could be metabolized by our body. So how the structures could be affected by the action of the enzyme enzymes or digestive enzymes and then how these molecules could be affected by the action of the gut microbiota.
Okay. Makes sense. So essentially, she was just trying to show the what's going to happen all the way through the entire phase of having a polyphenol.
Yeah. Which is so cool because nobody has done this yet, looking at the literature, this is the one thing that I've wanted to see for so long. What happens with these large tannins through digestion and through fermentation? So after fermentation? What did you notice? Like What Did you see when these large building blocks were digested and then fermented?
Well, after digestion, and it was a bit surprising that the large molecules, they're still there. But then, after the action of that gut microbiota, we could have said that a lot of small molecules a small metabolized were forming, thanks to the action of the of the of the bacteria bacteria. Okay. Yeah. So we could see the formation of smaller molecules, typical from the idealized Bhutanese or from the combat standings. So we will see an increase in the presence of Corsetti in a gcg, galley kassig, or ellagic acid.
This is this is awesome, because just not to veer far. But right now stateside, what people are hearing about on podcast trying to find solutions for people maybe who can't get access to a vaccine, or they have difficulty because they're overly exposed to public, they're getting lots of guidance on utilizing certain polyphenols, like course attended cetera, to function as zinc on a force. But what I'm hearing you say is that you can actually still get that same course. And they'll have your body disassemble a much larger parent molecule or parent poly phenol. Yeah. And your body will essentially pull apart exactly as much as it needs. Is that right?
Yeah.
Can you do that?
Yes, no, no, it's fine. I What I'm saying is, is that your what you illustrated in here, you were able to find these metabolites of the bacteria was able to make use of the poly phenol. Yeah, some of those included the corset in which, over here stateside, now people are hearing about corsten. And its ability to help people with antiviral activity. And what I'm hearing you say, from your research, you can actually get plenty of course it in by having a larger poly phenol that actually has it inside. Is that right?
Yeah, actually, we know that our extracts for use from from Suba team are very effective for antiviral activity. And we started to with a big trial clinical trial in Argentina, and what does is trying to give a supplement to COVID patients. And we have the first results, we don't have all the results, but we have the first results about that. And we could have served at first that the passion supplemented with tunings Beside that, then the typical therapy registered and a decrease of the inflammatory status, we registered the crease of for example of some indicators like TNF alpha.
That sounds very familiar. And again,
very, very, very familiar. Still doing what's really interesting is that this is the first time that anybody has discussed the fact that over here, there's lots of supplements, and the supplements are Oh, get this green tea extract, oh, get this ellagic acid, which will help produce your alisson get this course written. And so I have so many patients that have 20 different bottles in front of them. And they're doing this and then when we realize that no, once again, that's almost a smaller version of what the pharmaceutical companies are doing. It's like, Oh, this molecule was studied here. So I'm gonna go buy that molecule. But when you give the large stable molecule, Mother Nature's secret weapon, then your microbiome will kick off these smaller molecules like this corseted. Now, something that's interesting, I did reference that first study that was really thick. What they did is they did, they did mass spec on these different polyphenolic compounds, including reservatrol, including quercetin and including tumeric. And what they showed is those are poorly absorbed, and they end up having to be broken down also. So it isn't like taking the smaller molecule is a shortcut, it still has to go. The beauty of using a large tannin like this is the prebiotic effect which improves the microbial spectrum. And then the broader the microbial spectrum, the more of these beneficial, smaller phenolic compounds are going to get 100%.
And this is just like a bi directional relationship between tannins and microbiota because tannins in some way, we could say that feed the microbiota as prebiotic, by then the other way that that feed, the Fed microbiota is going to metabolize them.
A bi directional relationship bi directional relation tannins and by the micro. Yeah, it makes sense. They need each other.
Yeah. Frequently, I think of tannins in the microbiome, like the bidirectional relationship that Eric and I have in our friendship. Yeah, I need him he needs me.
If it weren't for him, bringing AGI patients, I would just be putting people to sleep for nothing.
Yeah, they would just go to sleep and nobody was doing anything. This is what's so cool about this is can you just explain really quick, just so that people don't take your word for it yet, you ended up doing some pretty cool chemistry to determine what molecules were there. So what did you do when you did the fermented how you were able to show that quarter 10 was kicked off that your lifting was kicked off that egcg was kicked off
what I had to perform before an extraction of the polyphenols. And when I had the sample, I perform an analysis on a uplc ms. That is a huge instrument that allows our allow us to identify exactly every single molecules.
So the detectable so she had definitive proof that they were there.
That's awesome. Right there. I'm looking at her mask. Right there. Got it in the article.
Mass Spectrometry. Yeah,
yes. I love that. That is what's that's the thing that I think is going to be the biggest game changer understanding that through your science, really, you can get these other beneficial products through one parent molecule, the building block. And that's what I try to tell my patients like, Well, why don't we take the largest, most stable tannins, right, put them together? And then as you take that, that will not only feed your microbiome, but you'll also produce these other things. And then the metabolites, the other metabolites like, oh, short chain fatty acids?
Yeah. Because we don't have us only just the metabolites deriving from the receptors of the big structures. We also have the other secondary metabolites that arise from the action of microbiota. We know from my researches and from other scientific literature, that tan is good in us both microbiota to produce short chain fatty acids. These small molecules are so important for us because they exert a lot of activities, they will be absorbed, and they their main activity is an anti inflammatory effect. But also they are super important for them. Past military maintenance of the sad part of what leaving what been leaving for this house. Yeah,
I mean, we're basically on about item number 17. on why polyphenols daily are critically important. And Silvia put it in here in a paper that anybody can read. I mean, this is awesome. 100%, when when you did this article, this is the thing I've been trying to explain to patients for so long. And you showed it very eloquently here, you also have another published study, which is pretty eloquent in itself. And this one is a little bit more related to the thing that we're both very passionate about, which is the brain gut access. Yeah, my my goal as a physician, eventually is to make it so that we protect the brains of people we know that inflammation results in all kinds of different diseases. And you actually published a paper as the lead author, polyphenols in dementia from molecular basis to clinical trials. How did you decide to do How did you decide to do a review article on dementia? That's really cool. That's right in our wheelhouse also, definitely.
Well, at the moment, I was working in a lab in Italy. They were specializing in dementia, and they wanted to publish something about about that, and they proposed me to write a paper. And I think that I had inside already that the love for pony feels. At the moment I was working with polyphenols of grapefruit,
grapefruit. Oh, yeah.
So I started searching something and then I just decided that it's dementia and polyphenols, I started to find a lot of source. So interesting literature and then I could find also clinical trial. So I decided to construct the paper from the molecular basis to explain exactly what's happening and its molecular level until to the clinical trials. What happens in the passions?
Well, it's a it's a powerful piece, because essentially, you're outlining that somebody who has had dementia, it's probably have long exposures to inflammation. And then in the paper, you're essentially showing how or why I guess polyphenols are critical.
So So in this particular paper, you were looking at the literature. So this was a review. So the literature that was available, looked at those different molecules that were already talking about reservatrol, curcumin and things, and I have to I love how you address this head on you said that the bioavailability of curcumin tumeric, which everybody talks about all the time is very low, because it is poorly absorbed and rapidly metabolized them eliminate and eliminate it. Here one study that talked about this, you go in to describe how reservatrol has very low bioavailability. Everything that you're talking about is exactly what this other article did, where it showed that even these smaller phenolic compounds do that. So we know that there's evidence to show that this can help in dementia. How does it help in dementia, though, let's just so when in your review, how did you figure out that it helped to prevent dementia or assist those people with dementia?
What the mechanisms are with are always the same. First of all, we have the antioxidant activity and anti inflammatory activity. What I can say now, after some years, I could say that could be related also to the modulation of the microbiota, because we know that almost 70% of the immune system is in the in dangerous time. Okay, so by regulating the microbiota, by maintaining maintaining a good status in the intestine, and reducing the inflammation there, we could then regulate also the inflammation all over the body and also reducing for sure, the inflammation that can lead to dementia. So it's everything is related.
So she used some pretty common terms that you and I have talked about quite a bit, right. Um, thing about Oh, NF Kappa beta. Yeah. CRP lippo, polysaccharides cyclooxygenase. pathway. So that is that definitely summarizes Do we have this thing, open that up real quick, like Sophia, this is what Eric and I did last time. That's all about inflammation and polyphenols and where they help.
Yeah, so we I, I drew first and then we realized how bad it was. So we found a young child, a kindergartener walking down the street, better than I did, so we paid them to do this. So it's done by some children.
It was another one of those bi directional relationships.
bi directional relationship. So this is this is so exciting. Here's why you're doing research, you have shown that the cause of dementia is actually due to inflammation, which we talk about all the time, all the time, diseases, inflammation, cause of cancers inflammation, we have, I have a lot of friends that participate in a lot of combat sports. I have a lot of friends that are former football players. So I have this whole community of people that have had traumatic brain injuries, which I think could really benefit from stuff like this. We know that because of the diet, people have a pro inflammatory diet correct. And you know, when we look at this, that the group of people that I treat a lot are people that have intestinal inflammation through bacterial overgrowth, poor diet, one of the most common things that they talk about or if I asked them is brain fog, or fatigue or anxiety. Yeah. And now we know
the reason I found in nature tour I can I can send it to you to interesting papers talking about some products that have been developed with tannins for the productivity for the mentality. Oh, Gordon, explain why but I guess it we could do it.
But I mean, isn't that something though, they probably stumbled upon it. Not really knowing. And quite honestly, it's your review and some of your other research that's starting to show people the why, which is critically important. Why, you know, why does someone want to do what it is that we're doing with polyphenols and Sylvia's? Honestly, paving the way on on the why it's very powerful.
we all we all have heroes. Sylvia, you're my hero, you are proving the things that that we have been trying to I've been trying to explain to my patients. And then now I can go low. I'll refer you to this article. This is why this is also why I think it's important to have a good diet, but also the long term strategy of the longer that you allow your body to access these tannins. Definitely the more your microbial diversity, the more you will block the inflammatory cascade. Yeah,
well, inflamed inflammation long term is not an overnight thing. So in order to repair our bodies, you need to consume healthy polyphenols for a long period of time. And then your body gets used to having the tools that it needs to provide your body with the short chain fatty acids or the Euro lessons or the course it cetera, for you to repair and control inflammation it makes, it makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, totally.
Okay, Sylvia, so I had, I did clinic this morning, and I have a series of patients, and I told them, I said, Don't worry, I'm having one of the smartest scientists in the entire world on the show today. This is an interesting thing, because of your research, I think we can help some of these people. I have a series of patients that have had their colons taken out for various diseases, either, that, for whatever reason, they have no colon. So now they have no microbiome. So now, in fact, I had a patient. My last patient said something really interesting to me. She loves she loved taking artron teal, she said she'd never felt better. And then due to some adverse events, she has an ileostomy so that she's not connected to her colon. And she said today, she's like, I just don't I don't get it. I'm not feeling as good as I used to. And I'm like I do. Because we're not, we're not breaking these down. We're not fermenting them in the way that they should be. So my task to you, how do we develop something for people that do not have the capability of fermenting foods, tannins, prebiotics, to have these beneficial to handle this opportunity to decrease the inflammatory cascade? What do you what pops in your mind of how we can figure something out for these people that don't have access to the microbiome? Am I saying that right?
Well, just to understand your question, you are meaning don't have access to microbiome in the senate don't have a white coat microbiota, or
no, they have had their colons removed completely. No, yeah. So no large intestine Yeah.
Okay. Okay.
One of our
one of our prior guests, one of our prior guests, Angie, she said, You got to figure this out with I'm gonna call you Dr. Sylvia. Because you're you're almost
you can go me almost doctor
Well, does he go Tada, Silvia de la luna Casa gasi. Dora, that's almost doctor, I'm catching
up.
No, but it's something with with your with your research that shows that people with a colon will have a a more beneficial response to prebiotics and to these polyphenols. So is it possible that fermenting them first and then giving that as an absorbable
this could be a possibility. We called what the product should be developed. But it's, it's okay. We could do it in laboratory The name of this product are post biotic as we were saying before, sure. So we could generate directed the metabolites from from Danny's from the big structures in laboratory by fermenting them with an old microbiota outside the body. And then give the to the patient the post biotic so all the fermented Tell the lights
be interesting to at least try. Because if without having the colon, you have to kind of wonder though, if the passage is quite the same when it comes to only having a small battle. That makes sense.
It's extremely, it's extremely complex, and we're seeing it more and more. And so I'm just wondering how, you know, figuring something like this is it's a small community.
I can't hear you anymore.
Oh, that's because he was on mute. I'm sorry. Well, I was just saying that it is a small community, but people that it's insult to injury, if you have a disease, ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease, a severe dysmotility, whatever, and you have your colon taken out? That's hard enough. Yeah. And then from then on, how do you make sure that you are able to produce these metabolites, which decrease your inflammatory pathway? Sure.
And you need them systematically?
Yeah. It's just something that I dealt with this morning. And I said, I have the person has the answer. How long do you think it'll take you to develop this product? And then get it back to me so that I can start helping my patients? I told him, I told him about a week. Yeah, cuz gosee looked at I Silvia can do anything.
As soon as I finish my thesis, I can start with the project.
And nothing doesn't do it at all. Well,
this is exciting. This is super cool. Yeah. Sylvia, your your research is incredible. I think that you're just getting warmed up, I think that you have shined a light in an area that many of us can start looking at and start talking about in a very scientific way. And it isn't just Oh, go out and buy this marketing product over here. We want to we want to educate people through science. And that's what you're doing over here. So 100, right.
And I just think it's so cool that you are able to where people are already turning to polyphenols, and we mentioned ecgc and in quercetin before, and we've all been trying to compete on how do we get our body to use these nice, awesome poly phenol molecules. And really, you just took a step back and said, Guys, you really want this bigger one. Because by using this bigger poly phenol, your body is actually going to get a better bioavailability of everything that you think that you need. And it's, it's, it's awesome. And it put it into practice. And quite honestly, this is a theme that we've seen before, over and over and over again, where we tried to give women who are who are in need of a folic acid, and they put folic acid in a little, a little pill. So they're while they're pregnant, that they don't have, you know, some some birth defects. But the truth is your body wants full eight, not necessarily folic acid. So once again, it's it's the bigger molecule that it's natural that your body wants. And what you did is you just basically took that same science and just blasted it into polyphenols. I think it's awesome.
We're going to, we're going to get you hooked up, we had a meeting with the author of the cert diet, which in your article, you actually describe how these polyphenols were turned on the sirtuin pathway as well. And so that is a whole nother aspect of almost an epigenetic process that goes on with it. But the other really cool thing is you talked about how these polyphenols increased nitric oxide both Eric and I like to exercise so we take our polyphenols for the nitric oxide capability. So all right, Cassie dotata Silvia does Michaela let you do anything. What do you like to do for fun when you're not always working on your thesis?
You You talked to us?
Because that's because I'm speaking Spanglish. gasi Dr. Sylvia? Yeah.
Are Spanish or English.
We, I want to know does other than working on your thesis and working from a Khaleda? What do you like to do for fun?
This is my phone.
My phone?
Well, I in my free time, I'm an athlete. I'm a triathlete. Oh,
yeah. Are you taking your polyphenols while you train and recover?
Working on me to develop new supplements with Thomas.
Oh, look at that. Nice. Yeah.
Yeah, they are so useful. So for first of all to people, because for sports that requires a lot of exercise like triathlon for example. The the body is always always trust and the development of oxidative stress and inflammation is huge. So We are used to take just supplements with carbohydrates or proteins they are giving us just micronutrients but they are not thinking about macronutrients or polyphenols, some some molecules that could help us to reduce the fatigue and to help us to recovery.
What's the most challenge? What's the most challenging event that you've done in a triathlon? Have you done like an Iron Man or
I'm sorry to interrupt you so
you can fit those in a little bit quicker to understand.
I come from autism I before when when I was young, I was a sprinter. So for me, an Olympic distance of triathlon is just like a mortal now.
I think that your research is really important because Eric tried doing some triathlons also. And he understood the power of polyphenols. But the only one that he had read about was reservatrol. So he was drinking wine the entire time that he was doing the triathlon
data, remember?
Before to cycle in, it's not the road.
Well, I don't remember any of it. So it's okay.
Well, Sylvia, thank you so much for joining the gacek project. This is exactly what I wanted to talk about. You did an incredible job. Your your research is amazing. And I feel like you're just getting warmed up. I feel like she's going to continue to uncover a lot of different things.
Yeah, what an awesome show to have you join us and and for all of you as a gut check project, like normal, we will put Sylvia's research in the show notes so that if you would like to see her own articles yourself or some of the others that they can reference. That way, you know, that we're not just we're not just speaking, it's, there's there's lots of powerful information in here. And I just can't thank you enough Sylvia, for making time to hop on with us today. It's
been it's been awesome. And if you're, if you're listening to this, as always, you know, share this with people, it's super important information that this is an incredible opportunity to have somebody like sylviane explaining this intricate science. So if you know somebody that has intestinal health problems, if the autoimmune problems, inflammation, possibly risking dementia, things like that, this is really important stuff that they all need to hear,
definitely. Or if you think that you're in the market for trying some type of new polyphenol or course it's in or you're going to green tea to get ecgc maybe just reconsider re listen to this particular episode. And I think that we can help you with artron to find a much better larger poly phenol, that Believe it or not, Silvia here has researched thoroughly. She knows it very, very well. So,
Sylvia, can we be can we be a sponsor for your next triathlon? I'll try to just give her the whole logos everywhere. And
I think that the corporate office is gonna love the fact that you've already committed so I guess we're
working for my new uniform so we can talk about it. Oh, I'm
sorry. I think we're a little mistake. Oh, and I mean, sponsor, the only sponsors we get are people that actually get tattoos.
Yeah, yeah, you we. He wants to give you a tattoo of altro until it's kind of a permanent sponsorship.
That's awesome, Sylvia. So much. Hey, don't hang up yet. But everyone else thank you so much for joining. Gotcha project number 49. And like I said, we'll make everything available to everything else to answer it.
No, I'm just loving it. Loving everything. I thought it would be. All right.
Thank you all very much, Silvia. Don't go anywhere. Bye bye.
0:01
Hey, gut check project fans and KB MD health family. This is Eric, I'm here with my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. And this is Episode 48. I don't have a clue what we're gonna talk about.
0:12
Well, I think that Okay, so if you did not see Episode 47, we put a lot of work into that one. Yeah, we've gotten a ton of great feedback on that. And it's just the beginning, because because of that episode, we've been contacted by a lot of other scientists, a lot of people. And we're gonna be having a really special PhD on to describe her research soon. And it's, you know, thankfully, it's pretty cool. Yeah, it's
0:34
really, really cool. We actually got a lot of feedback not only in the traditional sense, thank you all for who've been emailing in and messaging. But the two patients who came through and watched it right before we scoped them, I was impressed to how many of them tried to do what you did to me and made me list everything out. And so that was that was pretty interesting. So
0:53
just a recap of 47 it was important because we've uncovered a lot of important research showing how the polyphenols like polyphenols in atrantil can actually help your innate immune system. And it's, it's the tip of the iceberg because I've been contacted by out both allergist epidemiologists, some PhDs going wow, that is exactly what my research is in. I'd like to talk about it more.
1:16
What about just this morning, we had that discussion with somebody over in the UK who is specifically utilizing guess what polyphenols for athletes and elite athlete training. Never met the guy before has an incredible program. What do you think of that? Oh, that's
1:31
great. It's actually Aiden Goggins. And he he wrote the cert diet, which is the I believe it's the diet that Adele lost all her weight on and it's all about the benefit of polyphenols turning on these sirtuin pathways. He's he agreed to come on the show also great guy super smart. That was awesome hanging out with him this morning. So what's going on with you? Let's let's get let's make this more casual this time. The last couple of podcasts have been so intense with the immune system and stuff. Let's change it up a little.
1:56
Yeah, man. I chatted with gage this morning. He scores out of tech he's loving School, which is great. And you know he's he's enjoying his time as a freshman. His most college kids who are freshmen should be doing Mack is in midseason basketball. He loves it. He just He scored his 106 point where this basketball team is last week. He's super pumped about that. Okay,
2:20
let's let's clarify that. So he scored his 106 documented point or he scored the 106 I
2:25
scored the 106 which is the high watermark for his current code. That's awesome. That's awesome joints. He joins his brother who was the first person to push a coach over 100
2:34
Yes, that's awesome. So the reader brothers doing proper to the basketball team.
2:39
Their dad's terrible. I know.
I got a shiner got a little shiner. Here you go look at the camera here. Yeah, look at the mirror image of me. Yeah, we're doing little remodeling on the house. And unfortunately, the middle of the night I tripped over a box and face planet. So as I was telling my patient I walked in and we're gonna put him to sleep. And he's like, Whoa, Doc, he's like, do a get a little tussle. And I'm like, no. And he's like, well, it'll probably only affect your modeling career for a bit. And I'm like, Well, I'm actually a hand model. So that's why I protected myself with my face. Yeah, why don't you show that finger
and see how good of a handball you are?
3:16
Well, I played I play the before picture and all hand model. A bunch of Orthopedic Surgeons jabbed me they're like, hey, yeah, can I use that in an ad?
3:26
I specialize in ring finger. Yeah. We're gonna straighten it out.
3:32
Oh, guess what I signed up for what? I signed up for the Wim Hof breathing. Wow, awesome. I'm doing the Wim Hof if you don't know who Wim Hof is, he's this crazy guy that has this incredible breathing course which we're gonna talk about that I read. I read James nesters book called breath, the site the lost science, and everything is all over there. Oh, dude, it's because we're all just like, Whoa, you can change your life by breathing. And that's what the Wim Hof Method is just breathe. And it's so I've been doing this every morning for we're going on two weeks now. And the problem is it also involves cold exposure. So every morning instead of waking up and doing my Yani coffee and warm hot shower, I'm breathing a ton and then jumping into a cold shower so we'll see
4:16
feedback on it. Okay, well, just real quick, since I don't know where we're going with today's show. I'm just gonna go ahead and ask is this one of those things from Wim Hof where he is having you breathe in at a certain interval breathe out a certain interval so that you can achieve something and then it can you can you shed a little light on them?
4:32
Yeah. So the Wim Hof Method in a nutshell is a cyclical breathing where you, you over inflate and then you exhale to atmospheric pressure. So you go above atmospheric pressure to atmospheric pressure. You do this in a cyclical way, almost like a wave and you train yourself to breathe in a cyclical way. And what that does is that increases your oxygen saturation of the cells decreases your co2, and I know where you're going because last time we I started talking about putting physiology, we ended up doing a whole podcast on that. Check out COVID episode three or four. But what that does is that actually raises your pH because the co2 retention will increase the pH. Okay. So in this book, in breath, I got really into that because we realized that in our stress society and the more stressed you are, we tend to shallow rapid breathe, which actually is the improper way to do it. So when you want to relax, you breathe six seconds in six seconds out, that should be the proper tempo. This is a different method. This is to supercharge your parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system interesting. And then you do 30. In this case, you can do like 30 cycles of this. really deep breathing and then it on number 30, you exhale, and you hold your breath. So you and you time it and it's really funny because I'm following him on the course. And he's this very, he's been on Rhonda Patrick show and always been a me Joe Rogan. And everybody and so he's so funny, because he's the same all the time. I think he's always Wim Yeah. And so he's been on Ben Greenfield and stuff. And so he's, you know, you feel like this bond, because I'm like, holding my breath. And he's like, it's okay. You're good. You can do longer. You're,
6:12
I mean, the guy is a physical walking experiment. He's done everything, especially when it comes down to this controlled breathing situation.
6:19
Yeah, he holds like 20 world records and stuff. Yeah, but but it's all but it's all based off science. It's not like and that's what he tries to tell everybody. He's like, anybody can do this. So that's what I'm, that's what I'm going to experiment. We'll
6:28
see if I can interesting. I'm curious how how they're explaining to lay people because that's probably what this is written for. From lay people all the way down to the science. So maybe that would be a topic that we will get into after you experiment with it a
6:40
little bit. Yeah,
6:40
I'm really interested.
6:41
But we want to keep this episode light. Okay, this is just gonna be a fun, easy episode. Or we're just gonna relax. Gosh, I was sitting there with Dr. Ackerman in the office. And I got a quick question for you. Because uh
6:56
have a quick question for me after talking to Steve
6:57
Yeah, okay. Because it says cuz Stu, and I kind of disagreed on something. And I was like, Are you insane? We got in this discussion about carbonated water and he actually likes Waterloo over Bella VB. Like more like I couldn't even believe it. I'm like, Are you insane? Okay, well, wait, who's
7:15
insane? He's insane for liking for liking Waterloo.
7:18
Like how can you like Waterloo? Over Bell v. I mean, it's a apparently, well,
7:25
I never questioned the fact that you are a doctor until right now. Because apparently, Stu is on the right side of history. And you're on the wrong side of history.
7:33
How can you even say that? I mean, the bubbles in this are more effervescent, the flavoring is better. I mean, I have
7:40
a feeling that you're way more prepared for this talk than me. I'm just going to tell you that Waterloo kicks ass. Because I think Waterloo labor looks really cute
7:48
is delicious. We can argue about this calories,
7:50
no sugar. I don't know how many of these are crusher day, but I think they're awesome.
7:55
I don't want to spend this whole podcast arguing about which carbonated beverage is better? I do I do have a real question for you. Okay, because I was totally forgot this. And I know that you and I've done this. Would you mind explaining to me? Because I know you're really like theoretical mathematics. Can you explain to me again, the Yang Mills existence and mass gap in mathematics?
8:15
I would but it would take way too long. Okay.
8:17
So I mean, you're super smart. And I realized that that would normally be just like a no brainer. I don't want to tell you that Yang Mills I love not being patronized back. Alright, so the whole reason for that set up. Was I I've been talking to a lot of patients and a lot of patients that have had COVID are having lingering symptoms and brain fog and things like that. And so you call them the the long haulers. Well, I see that all the time, because we see that people that have gut inflammation, end up having other things going on. So I was like, wow, you know, what, what, what is happening there? And then I started going down a little rabbit hole and Angie and I looking up articles and then you know, found this article where we thought Oh, when we initially when COVID first came out, it's like oh COVID infects the brain. And then I think you and I even discussed the possibility of the vagus nerve being a conduit where viruses can get up and it was all theory and everything. And so then I started thinking Wait a minute, if we end up with all these long hollers, what's the effect on the brain and then on the effect on the brain, I went down a little rabbit hole. And then I'm like, Well, wait a minute. If we end up with lots of neuro inflammation, how does that impact our psychiatric help?
9:34
Health health? Yeah,
9:35
because I'm, I really believe that we're gonna end up in another pandemic. So many people are suffering from depression and anxiety. And we may end up you may end up in a situation where if you had this infection, you could end up having a little bit more anxiety, OCD, different things. And so neuroinflammation then that got me thinking, Wait a minute, how does how will this affect spouses and families and things? Because divorce rates through the roof and I'm like, What if whoa, wait a minute, what if all this inflammation and the stress is leading to psychiatric changes, but not even something really tangible that you can sit there and label a DSM for diagnosis on? What if it actually affects your cognitive ability? And so then,
10:20
let me just stop there. How could it not?
10:22
Right? Totally agree, except this is this is a podcast where we try and make sense of things. Sure, that that are like that. So that's the rabbit hole that I went down. And now I'm going to bring it back. So what's interesting is I did I do want to discuss one article that looked at damage in dissected brains and people that died of COVID. Okay, and it's not as straightforward as you think. Okay. And then I started thinking, well, if there's the inflammation that's there, then I found an article that actually discusses neuro inflammation, psychiatric illness, followed by here's what happens in our brain when we disagree. And ultimately ending up on disagreeing takes up a lot of mental real estate. So that was a really long setup to ask you a mathematic question, to pretend like I tied up your brain arguing over carbonated water. I'm sorry. I was trying to figure out how to set up how we're gonna talk about today's episode, which is all about the brain. Okay. It's all about neuro inflammation, the brain and the fact that we're still in the middle of this pandemic. It really wasn't to bring you on the show and argue about water and then ask you a theoretical math question that I just googled 30 seconds before we came on the air
11:35
live is fine. I'm just glad that I wasn't up for the challenge, either.
11:39
You would have freaked me out if you would have noticed.
11:42
It is would have been a random Google experience to be interesting. So if I understood what you just said that you're saying that we we probably waste far too many resources metabolically and over our brain trying to disagree with someone. Well, it's Yeah,
11:58
that But let's get back to the inflammatory process. Okay, Episode 47 was the innate immune system. And it makes sense why we have all this inflammation. So I guess what I'm saying is, let's prepare ourselves for the possibility that more than the usual number of people may be behaving in a way that they may not, or they may behave an extreme way, because I just heard a podcast this morning on med cram, that he was discussing that an article came out on the online version of ama, where they were looking at these, they surveyed, like a bunch of 170 people, and a shockingly high number had residual symptoms, three to six months after actually being diagnosed with COVID. And of this group, they were all really mild. And so what, what we're now realizing is, is that we may end up having a lot of these young people that had really mild COVID end up having symptoms of they're just fatigued. Brain fog is super common. Sure. shortness of breath, it's common. Sure. So I think that we need to start preparing for this, I guess, is what I'm getting not only preparing for, here's, here's something that we don't know. So you just said three to six months. I mean, the the full on onset of COVID, still wasn't even one year ago. So if we're looking at that number, there, we're not even looking at like a threshold for this to end, right. Because we don't know that yet. There's not enough time has passed. We're saying three and six months, because that may just be as long as that infection has existed for
13:32
that number of people. 100%. So
13:34
let's jump into these articles. But I like where you're going with this. Because this is what I want to do is prepare for what makes sense of things before it actually happens. I'm actually quite proud of something. And I've heard this from several people that whatever, nine months ago when we did COVID one and two, I'm sure yeah, we actually still stood the test of time. Yeah. Because one of my friends was actually talking about this, the fact that he's hearing he's going back and having fun looking at podcasts at the beginning. And now it seems absurd the things that were saying, and I got scared. I was like, we're totally absurd. And we were actually pretty pretty spot on.
14:10
Yeah, but I mean, I think quite honestly, in a lot of this has to do with the way that people who've communicate with us we, what we approach it isn't politically motivated. It's, I think that we're trying to always lean on what research says, and what research means. And so you can actually filter off, sometimes the stuff that's just noise. And that's what we try not to do here is deliver noise, we want to see if we can bring some context to what we think is real.
14:37
So what I would like to do is let's talk about this and let's look at this from a future neuro inflammatory process. And it all comes down to one thing that we've said a million times on this show inflammation. Sure. All right, so the first article that I came across, and these are all obviously very recent articles, some of them just a few days ago actually. Study uncovers blood vessel damage and inflammation in COVID-19 patient brains, but no infection. So this is a surprise that they did an in depth study and how COVID-19 affects patients brains, and they consistently spotted hallmarks of what they consider damage in an MRI while the patient was living, okay. And then they ended up taking a sample of 19 patients that actually died, and then they did an autopsy on them, okay, assuming that they would find necrosis clots. Because we've been talking about clots during this, oh, you're gonna have these thrombosis factor five lied and gets kicked in, and then you're gonna have you know, clots happen. And so what they found was now the exact opposite was happening in these brains. What they did is they found these bright spots contain blood vessels that were thinner than normal blood vessels. Yeah, they gave up integrity, didn't they, they gave up integrity, they had leaky vessels. And this appeared to leak proteins, like fibrinogen, the brain, which triggered an immune reaction locally, sure. microglial cells, these spots were surrounded by the innate immune system T cells trying to control it. And what that ended up happening was that the brain's own immune cells, tried to shut this down, created inflammation, which ultimately led to the neuro inflammation seen on these MRIs.
16:20
Yeah.
16:21
So the fascinating thing about that is controlling the inflammation may have prevented these lesions from forming. That's not why these patients died. But it does give us insight as to why people will be having brain fog in the future.
16:33
Without question, then guess what? That processes, even though it's specific right now about COVID-19? These things cycling out of control that that's not new, though, right? I mean, people have had these kind of problems before. And it's just like you said, it all goes down to inflammation. So what can we do to help control inflammation that doesn't get out of control?
16:54
So what you just said, This isn't new? Yeah, you're exactly right. An article in 2013, in the Journal of neuro inflammation, shows that there are multiple lines of evidence to support the pathogenic role of neuro inflammation in psychiatric illness. why that's important is because neuro inflammation can lead and then they go on to describe all these psychiatric illnesses. Now, one of my friends had a recent zoom, 50th birthday parties, a football player and some other football players were on there. And so, you know, you start looking at all these, the players that played a career in that, and that's what I was thinking. I was like, you know, neuroinflammation, how do we protect all these? And then I started thinking about, you know, veterans and things like that. Looking at this article, we've known that inflammation does this for a very long time. So I'm like, well, recently, let's see what's happened. Let's see if they tied it to very specific diseases, do a Google Scholar shirts, and you will see that there's a link between neuro inflammation and depression, aggression, fatigue, obsessive compulsive disorder, addiction, anger, chronic pain, all of it. The the scientists return to today, he checks inflammatory markers in his athletes. Yeah, he trains a lot of MMA fighters, a lot of pro boxers and things,
18:09
guess what he's checking, TNF alpha, interleukin six.
18:14
So we already know from prior podcasts that eating functional foods will help with inflammation. So what I want to do is take a different turn. And like I was kind of prepping, let's prepare for the possibility that we may be dealing with more people that have neuro inflammation. So how do you handle it, there may be more mental illness coming towards us. Sure. And mental illness can be a spectrum, mental illness just might be a few. If you've ever suffered from anxiety, even a little bit of anxiety that that can incapacitate you. And that goes all the way to complete debilitating, OCD or schizophrenia and things. And it looks like it's all coming down to inflammation, let alone now we're just talking about the short term, let alone dementia, Parkinson's, and so on, which is, once again, inflammation is the cause of that.
19:09
Yeah, absolutely. And I like that at the very beginning, you were at the very beginning. But about a minute and a half ago, you were talking about how do we protect these people like you saw on Jr's zoom call? But also, what do you do for those who are sustaining an assault right now or inflammation right now to heal them to help bring them back? Because I think it's both of those things. Let's say that someone's having an anxious problem, long term anxiety. Do you really think that having a long term poor diet along with that is going to help them with their mental state and recover it's not you still have to give your body the tools to give it I mean, a mechanic can only fix the car with the tools and you have to give your body the tools to help your brain heal.
19:55
So when you have inflammation, there's a possibility that you are Maybe have a little more anger, which could lead to arguments. So now let's get into the physiology of arguing. I mean, I could see how heated you got when I was insulting Waterloo there. And I know. So this is a study that actually was published in in the Journal of nature and neuroscience. Basically what they did is they looked at people during an argument, right, and they tried to see what actually goes on. And so in a heated disagreement, generally speaking, you may lose respect for the person that you're talking to, you know, whether it's about something real heated or whatever, but if you're passionate about it, you will lose respect and whether you feel appreciated or not, a lot of times what is described as that the other person is ignoring them, or they feel ignored. And so there's a concept here where you're passionate about your thing, I'm passionate. When when I walk out of the room, I feel like I've been ignored, like you have not heard anything, and you feel the exact same way. And then there may be some truth to that. There could be Did you ever wonder what's going on in the other person's brain that could explain that? So understanding when you're looking at somebody, and you're like, I'm talking but you don't really seem like you're hearing me?
21:12
Can I kind of guess on what you heard this may be going? Sure. So as a as a younger person engaging in an argument, I oftentimes would find myself, let's say that you and I were having a true disagreement. And that your your first approach to me was to tell me why you felt something that I was doing, or that I thought was completely wrong. So the first thing I hear is, he doesn't like what it is. And while you're talking and making that point, I'm really just fortifying my position. Really not even listening to anything that you would have said, however, as a, as an older adult, I would imagine, and you learn this as a parent to really go to the child or the person you have a disagreement with. And try to find an area where we already agree or even compliment the other person. So that you're really beginning to build a bridge and make it look like your point of disagreement is you're arriving at it that there's a problem that we have together.
22:14
That is correct. From the top. Okay, now let's talk about what's actually going on in the brain that leads to that. Okay, so to get to that point, so that you can take control of it. So have you ever been in a heated argument? All right. So what they did is they took 21 pairs of volunteers, and they asked them to make financial decisions, decisions in particular, they each had to assess the value of real estate, then they had to bet money on there a second. All right, so each volunteer, terrible, I know, each volunteer laid in a brain imaging scanner while performing the tasks, so that the scientists could record and the volunteers had to agree on the price of real estate. If they agreed, each of them became more confident, and they bet more money on it. Which makes sense, because that's the tribalism if you affirm what I'm believing Well, yeah, we're both right. Are you kidding me? You need to buy some GameStop.
Yeah, then we get really excited.
23:27
I love this Reddit group.
23:29
That's, that's exactly what it is. Yeah. So stop and think what Reddit is, when you do a sub group, you've already positioned yourself in a tribe. And when you say something, and you get up voted, you're just like affirming exactly what's going on. So that's totally cool. So I agree with you that I'm more sure that I must be right. Now what's going on is the activity is in the brain region called the posterior medial medial frontal cortex, which is also known to be involved in cognitive dissonance. And it's the part that will track the confidence level in the person that you're with. So there's a section of the brain that lit up when they agreed. And it was associated with the fact that they were agreeing and they had more continental cortex. No, no, no, it's not. It's the posterior medial frontal cortex. Okay, so wherever post posterior medial frontal Let me think about that. neuroanatomy is ridiculous. It's hard. It's like where is it? It's in the back. Middle. upper part. Yeah. On the lower. I mean, southwest corner. Yeah. All right. So anyways, so they found that the more competent one volunteer was, the more confident the partner became and vice versa. It and once again, it gives the feeling of why we joined tribes and why we seek out people with similar opinions. Okay. However, the interesting part is this when people disagreed, their brains became less sensitive to the strength of others opinions. Remember that the posterior medial frontal cortex when they agreed it tracked the content So I'm sensitive to exactly what you're saying. So what they're saying here, when people disagreed, they became less sensitive to the strength of others opinions. And after agreement, the post your medial frontal cortex cortex, could no longer track the partners competence on the scan when they disagreed and went, yeah, and went away. Consequently, the opinion of the disagreeing partner had little impact on people's conviction that they were correct. Regardless of whether the disagreeing partner was very sure in their assessment, or not at all, they doubled down. They went, Oh, no, they disagreed. So this one shut off, and perceived no lack of confidence in the other person. Does that make sense? Like it's, it's, it's not even a conscious thing going on very much sense. Blood went away from that part of the brain. And so pretty interesting. When they tested the volunteers memory, so a lot of times you'd say, Oh, they just didn't listen to me. They just didn't, they didn't remember it. clearly didn't remember. Because I feel that way a lot when you walk away, and you're like, well, they didn't listen, they won't remember anything. That's not the case. They actually tested the volunteers memory of their partners assessment and bets. Rather, it seemed that contradictory opinions were more likely to be considered categorically wrong. And therefore the strength of those opinions was unimportant. Yeah, that's right. So you can understand how we end up in this polarizing society, if that's going on. It's super complex, multi layered reasons for all this stuff. But how can we increase our chances, you said it best right there. So the end of this article was, well, if this is going on, do something First, find someplace to agree on first, because when you get to an agreement level, if you and I are agreeing, then I assess your confidence, and I automatically a part of my brain gets turned on. If we're finding the common ground, then I'm that part of my brain is ready to see if we can do this. So it's a subconscious thing. We don't know what's going on, it's going on on a physiological level, that that part of the brain kind of gets lit up. And so in the midst of a heated disagreement, just take a step back, find a common ground, and be like, Hey, I know that you're super passionate about Waterloo, and you're part of that subreddit, our Waterloo kill all other, you know, bubbly, but you know what, you know, what's really good? Doesn't matter the brand. I just like the effervescence, right?
27:26
Yeah, it's all about the effervescence, as long as it's waterloo.
27:31
So I'm the one that found the common ground, so I was prepared to accept your opinion. But you didn't, you didn't join me on that.
27:38
The way it started 20 minutes ago.
27:41
So the whole reason why I asked you the math question. So, um, it started out with Oh, my gosh, we're gonna have a lot of people with neuro inflammation. Oh, my gosh, they'll be arguing How do you prepare yourself for these arguments? How do you tell, like many things, I do better when I know, oh, I'm behaving like this. My body's doing this. I'm tachycardic. My blood pressure is rising, because I'm letting my emotions have a physiologic effect. Okay, so same thing. So you get an argument go, Oh, why am I being so dissonant here? It could be because blood is going to the wrong part of your brain, instead of where it should go. So that's step one. And then the reason why I asked you the math question, because this is the article that came out on January 14. disagreeing takes up a lot of brain real estate. This one is fun to me. Because much like the adage, it's easier to smile and frown. disagree, is exhausting mentally.
28:36
I mean, think about it, you you have a great encounter with a friend, it feels good. And you don't want it to end if you're locked into a disagreement. Think of people sweat sometimes when they're when they're just having a verbal disagreement. And I've got Yeah, that's not even surprising. It's it's not surprising, but
28:56
what is always surprising to me is when scientists can prove it, and they have tests to do it. Oh, for sure.
29:02
Sure, your brains lit up on that one. So
29:03
this one's really cool. So they is defense though, right? Well, we're gonna get into it right here. Check this out. It's more than just defense, something really unique. And it's fascinating. This comes out of Yale. So Yale, researchers devised a way to peer into the brains of two people simultaneously, while they are engaged in discussion. So when two people agree, their brains exhibit a calm synchronicity of activity focused on the sensory area of the brain. I'll say this, again, a calm synchronicity in the sensory area of the brain, okay. This was the sensory area. They didn't get into the exact place but it could be the amygdala, it could be you know, various areas. However, so many other regions of the brain are involved in higher cognitive groups. But when they disagree, so when you're agreeing, you synchronize in the area of the brain, that is the sensory area, okay? In other words, I can feel and see your social cues. Okay? So when we disagree, however, many other regions of the brain involved in higher cognitive function become mobilized as each individual combats the other's arguments. So say that again. So if we're arguing, instead of me just sinking into almost a Zen state of, we're in the sensory area right now, my brain knows that we're arguing. And so my brain shifts blood to the frontal cortex, where there should be higher cognitive functioning, and it's trying to prepare and figure out how we're going to do whatever and come back at it. And so it just, it just lit up and these people, so our entire brain is a social processing network. However, when you disagree, you lose the social processing cues, because you get away from the sensory aspect. I believe that so it becomes all trying to wrap your brain around the logical thing, why in the world, would you like Waterloo, and I'm, you know, so it becomes this, the state and you don't have any, any control over it. So to test their theory, they looked at 38 adults, and after they match them up, based on their responses that the researchers used, they put them in this really cool imaging technology called a functional near infrared spectroscopy. And what they were able to do is record their brain activity while they're engaged in face to face discussions. So remember, the last one, they were kind of in this functional MRI, and they were kind of arguing over a thing. This one specifically allowed them to do real time where two people could like, get in their face and be like, are you you know, like a argument or whatever it is. And what they found is pretty cool.
32:04
Yeah, so if I am.
32:06
So if we agree, we are in sync? Sure. If we don't, then I'm trying to use my brain to figure out how to get you to do what I want you to do. So when they were in agreement, the brain activity was harmonious and tended to be concentrated on sensory areas of the brain, such as the visual system. thought this was super cool. Okay, think about when you used to date. And you could tell we're all of a sudden, it's like, the data is going well.
32:33
Why is she walking away?
32:39
So your date, your dating life? Was that bad that she actually showed up? You're like, oh, when she's leaving, or she's leaving to
32:47
what am I doing?
32:48
Well, you're, you're not in sync with the sensory areas. Yeah, learn that. But I thought this was fascinating. But the visual system as a sensory area gets in sync. And the visual system, presumably in response to the social cues from the partner.
33:03
Okay. Makes sense, though. Because you're almost trying to complement what it is that the person there is doing. Right? That's Yeah,
33:09
exactly. So like, I just think it's interesting. When you're like, man, I really, it's that classic thing. Oh, yeah, I know that person. Yeah, we had a great, really cool, we really connected or, you so easy to get along with or, you know, it's
33:21
seen as kind of a bad thing, whenever, whenever it's highlighted, because a wrong decision ultimately is made. But there, I think it's just somewhat natural for people to long term when they are jiving with someone else to develop certain confirmation biases. And it's not necessarily always wrong. The conclusions, it's just highlighted when a confirmation bias turns out to be the wrong decision. Doe s that make sense? Because maybe when people are agreeing, and they're working together, it's actually fostering teamwork. And people need other people, wolves are in packs, etc. It's like part of that has to happen so that people feel comfortable working together. But if they're disagreeing, it's like you said, I'm your brains working this puzzle? How am I going to effectively remove myself from this guy's opinion or this thought? Because it's not working out for me. So you really don't care that the visual cue is telling you that the other person is uncomfortable. So you don't you're not tuning in to the fact that they're wanting to pull away? In fact, you're kind of glad.
34:25
Yeah, that is totally true. The first article showed the activity, the blood flow, sure, this art or I'm sorry, that basically the blood flow, this article shows the actual activity and however they do it. So it makes sense that once we start disagreeing, I start shifting blood to the the cognitive region of my brain, and it just starts bouncing around trying to figure out how to do that if two people are
34:47
agreeing, you're almost allowing yourself to trust the other person to help you in figuring it out. So you're a little bit more relaxed, it's not requiring as much as you begin to disagree. I just wonder if this plays into Little bit of biology like, Well, look, we're in disagreement, we're not working together, I've got to assume more responsibility of this thought this process this conversation.
35:10
And then you know, these these guys looked at that, and they're like, well, meanwhile, if they're disagreeing activity, increasing the brain's frontal lobe, your home of higher order executive functions and filtering, and but that's a necessary evolutionary response. Yeah, because if I'm actually in a disagreement, like my like this could escalate, I need to start thinking and planning ahead. The problem is when you start having disagreements over stupid stuff, or things like that, or you have the same disagreement, let's say with a spouse, like you know, I don't know, it's really random, but like, clean up your bedroom, you're so messy, when you come home kind of thing, just random. And fortunately, since I disagree, I'm able to cognitively avoid that. You know what, never mind I realize I'm just going to go home and be in sync from now on and just be one with my mess. Sure, and just allow it to happen. Yeah, or I don't consider it a mess. Yeah, just said, I actually don't consider it that. So what knowing that we've got this synchronicity when this happens when two people agree that brains exhibit calm synchronicity, focused in the sensory areas of the brain, and discord, the brains engage in emotional and cognitive resources. Now, here's the cool part, if we're both disagreeing, and this is both going on, when we're in synchronicity, we're playing a symphony together. When we're disagreeing, and your cognitive functions doing this, and minds doing this, we're both playing symphonies in our heads, but they're different. Trying to play him at the same time. It's
36:36
like a jazz band.
36:40
So you're, you're equating jazz to cognitive dysfunction.
36:44
drummers playing one song bass players playing another. I love jazz music, but it's wild.
36:49
So the bottom line is, when you're actually in agreement, you have less cognitive engagement, you have more brain power to do other things. I thought about this, because when you're really like, well, like when we scope like, when I'm scoping, you get into this flow state. And things are good, just, it's just things just your brain just goes. And
37:08
so over the years, we've worked together now several, I mean, really, I think the first time that we worked together as in 2012, and in that time, we've seen certain technicians in the room, right, come through and and work with you right now. And we, you've had several great technicians. But over the years, I've seen us where maybe you didn't have the one that caused them not that they were bad, but one that didn't compliment the way that you scope, or the pace that we have in the room, something like that. And right now, we're really fortunate because pretty much every technician that we have right now is really, really, really good. That being said, interesting, that when we're all on the same page, and we can have a we can have a day with several patients, but we catch every problem. patients feel great. They wake up awesome. turnover. Time is awesome. And we're all
37:58
we're never behind. Oh, all those things still happen regardless, but we're just smiling more in those days. Yeah.
38:05
Thanks for a great day other than I'm out of here.
38:08
You know, what's funny about that? Now, that really brings up a good point where I have, I have a lot of surgical friends that do really kind of like neurosurgeons and things. Yeah, and wow, at what I would consider now where I'm like, man, they're so sad. They gotta have that same anesthesiologist, they gotta have those texts, they gotta have that certain music going. They gotta have that. That's not OCD. That's them getting in sync.
38:28
Yeah. But it's, but it's kind of a home, right? Because everyone's agreeing with this environment. This scenario, and I do that same thing with Eckhart, when I'm doing is eyes, you know, I mean, it's, we've got a great pace. But some of that, honestly, it's kind of overused term, it's kind of curated, right, we have a playlist that we listen to, that the patients will relax to, but it's good for us.
38:50
Yeah, that's gonna be a whole separate thing about the what happens when, you know, you played certain music, and they'd like now now knowing that you can, like examine the brain while they're doing you don't have to be hooked up to things. I don't know how this test was done. So I just thought it was kind of interesting thing, I went down a rabbit hole where I'm very nervous about the possibility of varying degrees of long haul or symptoms. I don't like the term long haul. Because we've seen this with other viruses. I see it all the time. I mean, we've seen it with EBV, we've seen it with,
39:19
which is really new. And we don't have enough data, especially because you said it from the very beginning. They got people who've been exhibiting these symptoms for three to six months. And if you look at the timescale for how long this has been out, that could technically be for as long as they've had the problem.
39:34
And then if you're one of these people, you're like, Hey, you know what I had COVID and nothing's happened. So I'm sure I'm clear. That's cool. be on the safe side. Do the thing that we I was talking about eat functional foods. Take in polyphenols, avoid fasting. Yeah, avoid fast food. And, you know, if you do find yourself in an argument, and you're like, Hey, you know what, this person probably has a lot of brain inflammation. find some common ground, get a box of Atrantil set it there and be like we both need to calm down. I need to improve my microbiome and you need to block that neuro inflammation that's making you so mean towards me.
40:06
Yeah, they'll totally be receptive if that's the first thing. I'm sure.
You look angry.
40:14
You look angry. Have you had your ? That should be a commercial? We do. Yeah. Two spouses fighting. Somebody shows up.
40:21
I mean, anyone loves being told that it's your significant other The first thing out of your mouth, how was your day? You look angry. Everyone responds to that.
40:31
You look like you. Your frontal posters. cerebral anterior cortex is not firing. And
40:37
yeah, just start off with a cotton that just anything nice shoestrings today?
40:42
Well, thank you find that common ground.
40:44
Yeah, start start with the shoestrings and then see if we can grow from there.
40:48
Alright, so you can disagree. So So the moral of this podcast is that, number one, find yourself in an argument, first of all, give somebody the benefit of the doubt that, hey, they could be having some inflammation going on in their brain. And if you've heard this podcast and understand that, then you can stop and go, Okay, now I understand that blood is being shunted someplace else. So it's going to be very difficult to continue this path. Let's take a second, find some common ground and start there and see if you can work your way back.
41:14
It makes sense. And it doesn't have to just be COVID. If you have someone that's in your life, and you're they struggle with anxiety issues, and you always wonder kind of why they're on edge, it may not really be their fault.
41:25
Yeah, I mean, it all comes down to the inflammatory process that's going on. And if you've got neuroinflammation because of God because of other things, it's from a science standpoint, it's always real you can I think it's easier to see the other person's perspective when you can, when it's easier for me to always understand somebody's perspective, if I can break it down to a soul level, you're short of breath, that means that your co2 is you know, like, I can go Okay, that's cool. I'm not gonna say why are you short of breath? We only ran one lap.
42:04
Yeah, it's this is what's going on. It's so weird to say to somebody. Yeah, well, I think it's a really good point. And I'll, I'm gonna pull the curtain back here a little bit. And it's not exactly just an anxiety, inflammation of the brain. situation, however, it is a brain situation. And it was somebody who was close to me that started acting a little strangely. And for a while no one really knew. But my dad, who was always happy go lucky. For a brief period in his life, there was 24 months or so where he was irritable. And nobody really knew why, however, me included, everybody, unfortunately, hadn't had an exchange with my dad. This is several years ago, where we would probably have like an argument where I'm never even heard just the guy growing up, really. And it turns out, he had a brain tumor. And once we got a treated, and he was back to us back to, you know, normal dad. But oddly enough, I'm just thinking of situations where you just have to have enough empathy that if you feel like someone's on edge, I love the way you said it, give them the benefit of the doubt, find common ground. If you've always been running into recall, someone just find the common ground, because who knows, you may actually help them. You'll certainly get further in your conversation. And I wished it. Did I known that even back then. I mean, of course, it we were we were over it quickly, when we all figured out what was what was going on. But it was something that he couldn't control at all. And but yeah, it's worth giving someone a bit of a doubt.
43:44
The brain is so fascinating to me, because when you say that he couldn't control it all whether it's a tumor or whether when people I was listening out, man, that fighter that's on Joe Rogan's most recent episode. Oh, what's his name is? Justin Ren. Justin read.
44:01
Yeah. Is it just an idea? He does the in Uganda? Yeah.
44:06
He does such an incredible job of explaining addiction and depression. He's been through it in a way that you're just like, Whoa, yeah, like I did not know it got like that. And even Joe was like that. I'm just the kind of guy that can walk away from things. And guess what, some people could have walked away from everything that he struggles to walk away from. It's just not how it worked for him. And it's how his brain is wired. And it helped him to understand he actually said that flat out he's like, once it was explained to me that I have less dopamine going on. And once I take this, it hits me different than it hits other people. And finally learning that allowed me to realize this is not a mind over willpower kind of thing. This is strictly when I do this. This is what's going to happen. If you're a diabetic. And I'm like, Eric, I got the greatest donut. You're gonna love it. It's amazing. And you look at that and go well, if I eat that my blood sugar will spike and I will end up Possibly, you know, an hyperglycaemic crisis. It's that makes sense, right? Yeah. But we never talked about the brain, we never say, oh, if you drink the day before, maybe the following day, you may end up with your GABA receptors depleted, and therefore you'll have increased anxiety. And that can lead to panic attacks. Yeah, things like that.
45:19
My cousin, psychiatrist and years and decades ago, I remember him telling me that one of the most difficult things to deal with in psychiatry is that it's not like orthopedics, you can see a broken bone and want to fix it. You just can't see the brain, you just see the resulting things of people's behavior. And that's kind of hard, because it's all when you're little, you're told to behave, Oh, of course, behave, do the right thing. Whatever. If someone misbehaves so many times, it's attributed Well, they've chosen to act poorly. But maybe, maybe some things are just in a process of inflammation where they're making. Yeah, they're making bad decisions, but maybe they're arriving at the decision, not really, how they wanted to get there. And then, you know, we
46:07
talked about what we've, I mean, CTE is a relatively new thing. But CTE is now showing up. And not just in football, it was discovered there. But now we're seeing in MMA fighters, which we thought MMA was safer than boxing, because, you know, you didn't get hit 20 times. But now we're seeing some of these fighters do some different things we talk about some of the very, you know, some very sad and horrific suicides, and some things like that have gone on with people that have had long careers in professional wrestling is one and that and you're just like, Whoa, and people want to block your players.
46:39
Oh, really? Yeah. head butting? Oh, yeah, knocking that
46:43
knocking the ball around. It's great. It's crazy. And so it all comes down to inflammation. And so it's it's sort of, it's sort of my life's mission, you know, the brain gut access, decrease the inflammatory process in the gut, and the brain and the same thing, and we can do it all the time. You know, increase your NRF two pathway, decrease your your TNF alpha, your interleukin sector and liquid ones. And those are those are fancy words for just saying, Let's stop the inflammatory process.
47:09
Yeah, that's it. It's crazy. But it's all it's not it's all but so much of disease and chronic disease is just tied back to inescapable long term inflammation.
47:20
And that's so good. Circling all the way back to the very first thing that I said the whole Wim Hof thing as I started reading about it, actually one of my patients who's suffering a lot from a multitude of symptoms, kind of like a systemic inflammatory process. And it's really kind of struggling to come out of it. And we've tried a lot of different things. He's like, he's like, Doc, it's like, I've been doing this thing called Wim Hof Method now for a couple months. And I was like, I'll try anything. And then as I started looking at it, it actually, because you control the parasympathetic system, which is the vagus nerve, which is the great highway from the gut to the brain, you actually do change the whole, well, I don't know the exact aspect. But if you're affecting the parasympathetic nervous system, you're going to decrease neuronal activity in areas that you don't want it to be hyperactive. So breathing, that's how come calming breathing increases parasympathetic, exhaling, and that's how come there's so much meditative yoga. And there's so many things like that there's a physiologic thing that goes on if you do it, right. Which also brings up an interesting point, because I just thought of this, just now, every time I've ever done yoga, like a yoga class, and I've done quite a bit, it's mainly just to kind of get it out of the way. It's like, I'm gonna go do my stretching thing. And when they say home, and they do this, and I had cognitive dissonance, I was like, I was gonna argue the fact we don't really need to make these weird sounds, can we just stretch? And now I just realized, and here I am, I did that. I went in there with a disagreeing attitude of why we have to do these other things I just wanted to get my stretch on. And I'm at fault for that. I just realized, I just noticed that there it is,
49:03
you know, even when someone's intubated in surgery, in your right eye when you're applying the yoga and the humming or whatever, because basically, you're creating resistance for the air to leave the lungs, etc. The hyperinflation of the lungs. Well, guess what we do someone's intubated and we need a valsalva maneuver, we basically just hyper inflate the lungs, but we're just doing it mechanically. And it's because it's been proven time and time again that that is going to stimulate the vagus nerve and get the acetylcholine from the Vagus,
49:34
man. See, this is what I liked that book so much. They went into that where they said that if you slow exhale while humming through your nose, you actually increase nitric
49:44
oxide in the blood as well. Yeah, because you need the veza dilation to bring in blood that's been metabolized or the blood it's been bringing the metabolites co2 back to the lungs be breathed off. I mean, it just goes in that cycle over and over again. And it's kind of cool because this is This is really why I want to do this show, I think because later after you do some more Wim Hof, because I'm really curious on how they explain it to the layperson. Maybe we could lay down a little bit of physiology that way that if someone's sitting there, sitting on the edge of Wim Hof, or nesters ideas, we can actually show physiologically why what they're saying,
50:20
actually makes a lot of sense. And there's a lot of science on this. I think that a lot of academic institutions have used him as a guinea pig because he allows it because he's not only a believer, he is the example he Yes, and then they can show all these different physiologic changes, but it's really cool. So like, I'm thinking, you know, practice, practice what we preach here. I don't know like next time I find myself in an argument with somebody have something locked and loaded, that you can agree on just so that you can almost like press the reset button. Possibly. Yeah. Oh, wait, hold on. I know that you're doing this. But if you're noticed, and then just something that's kind of that everybody will agree on me. Of course, everybody likes Jolly Ranchers. Yeah. You know, that's high fructose corn syrup. Yeah. I was just thinking of things that people would normally like. Yeah, normally.
51:11
Yeah. Honestly, in today's climate, I don't know that there's any one thing other than you could say oxygen is good to breathe. And Sun is good most of the time.
51:20
I know that the Lord is gonna call you up be like Eric, what happened? Every time that I want to tell him to go clean his room or something? He says that that don't you think that my hair looks pretty? It's it's become a weird tick. I
51:35
think we need to scan as bright as the common
51:39
that's common ground.
51:40
Yeah. Well, man, awesome. Awesome. Surprise there. I love I love the topic.
51:47
But we're good. We're gonna get sciency Yeah, we're gonna have some guests on that can can kick some knowledge on their books and on the on the research that they're doing?
51:53
Yeah, keep an eye out for Olivia and Aiden to be joining the podcast here really, really soon. Sweet. I'm excited about that. And we're still not finished with the installments on on the immune system, literally. Keeping up with the email over the last episodes, as well as preparing for a couple of other things. Just the new year is etc. We've had a really bizarre shake up in our schedule at the info center. Whether we're full or not full of random times. There's news. Yeah, life still goes on here too. Hey, we
52:26
got a new president of the United States.
52:30
Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot about that.
52:32
So there was immediately executive orders, which were like, Oh my gosh, how's this gonna affect us? And
52:36
did you know what we have to work? We still have to put gas in the car. So take care of the kids. Ultimately, all politics is still local. I still gotta be nice to everybody around the house. You know, you said
52:48
you put in order gas in the car then kids and I know deep down USA stuff to work got to buy my Waterloo. Oh, Bill, the gas
52:57
that's given. It's like taxes,
52:59
Episode 48. So next time, if number one, hopefully you will never get COVID if you do get COVID and it's mild. Keep an eye out that there appears to be a low level inflammatory response which could lead to other things so control the inflammation by controlling your diet eating a very colorful plate. Top zinc Yeah, takes a vitamin D. The polyphenols in our trunk to have been shown to help with the innate immune system. See Episode 47 your sleep? Absolutely. pillars. So any parting words hurt
53:30
now? Thank you all for for I mean, seriously, the the last two episodes the amount of email sharing. Thank you. Yeah, and I appreciate it.
53:40
Yeah. So please, like subscribe, the usual stuff, share it. We want to try and get the word out and if there's any questions or anything, email them, we try to get to it. We have Angie Coker secret weapon who will find any article anywhere in the world at any hour.
53:57
Yeah, he gets some sleep.
54:01
All right. Thanks, everybody. Bye bye. It's
54:02
Episode 48 till later
0:00
Hello, everyone, welcome to the gut check project gut check project fans, KBMD health family, how are you doing? It is now time for episode number 47. I'm here with my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown.
0:13
What's up Episode 47. This is part two of our immunology. So this is I'm pretty excited. Because just this morning, you said you better check out Joe Rogan this morning because Dr. Mark Gordon is on there. And this dude was saying everything that we've been talking about, but I feel like we even have it to the next level. So we're talking to scientists that understand the whole concept of functional nutrition, functional things that I felt like he was saying, everything that we've been talking about now for quite a while like yours
0:45
is no doubt the coolest thing is another thing that we'll we'll get to it in a moment. But it's it's all about eating right. having great nutrition, he used an incredible example of India, where Let's face it, a lot of people don't have the economic means that we do here in the United States. However, they're facing COVID, they have the same health issues that we do here, roughly, and they've got a large population. So when comparing apples to apples are talking about nutrition, and there's some specific things in that nutrition when you say,
1:17
oh, and we're gonna get into that, in fact, I got an article here that we're gonna go over and I'll spoiler alert for you. But it's exactly what what what we're talking about right now. So we got some feedback. I apologize to everyone the last podcast we did, we were trying some unique things. And we didn't have such good sound quality, but that's what you get when your sponsor is lousy Lavalier comm so we had LousyLavalier.com Yeah, so we dropped them. And so I'm happy to announce that we got a new sponsor, which we did get a new sponsor, and this is awesome. It's actually a hot dog company. They're called diarrhea dogs. And their slogan is, we're not sure what's in the dog, but we know it will give you diarrhea. Yeah. who's who's betting our sponsor?
2:05
The cool thing is, is it's a it's a host specific sponsor, so I'm looking for you to tell me how I
2:11
know seriously, who in the company is? Is it Mike? is Mike getting sponsors for us, Mike, because I've already cashed a check. We got to keep talking about diarrhea dogs.
2:18
It's, I can't this can't keep happening.
2:20
We had lousy Lavalier as a sponsor, then we followed up with diarrhea dogs, yeah. Oh, my goodness,
2:25
this is not working out.
2:26
We're gonna have a little talk with Barry Weiss. How you been man?
2:30
doing well, so we're into a brand new year now. What brief amount of time had a great vacation with the family? And it really just in time, right. I mean, there's, everything's kind of limited on what you can do. Yeah. But we it was, it's good to always have the older son come home spend time with him. We started building some furniture over the last couple weeks. So it's a great bonding experience with me and the boys. And of course, Maria is telling us what she wants us to look like. So trying hard to make it. Yeah. But you know, it's it's been a lot of fun. Mac is in the swing of basketball. And so life, normal life is starting to take on a new meaning. But it's it's good.
3:09
Yeah. What about you? Well, for us, um, you know, the, the whole COVID lockdown, you start looking at your house a little bit. And so loida kind of convinced me that maybe we should start considering making a few little changes. And it started out with the master bath. And she's like, you know, shoot, can I do a few other things? I'm like, Yeah, absolutely. So I'm really busy with work and come back. And then you know, next thing I know, the builders or the contractors there and he's like, Look, okay, so this is what we've designed. Here's the plans, bla bla bla bla bla, and, you know, he's like, we're gonna buy the neighbor's house and we're gonna, you know, tear, tear this one down. But I mean, it was just I'm like, Whoa, we're doing a lot of work here. So I'm already in it. We're gonna be in this house for a long time. It's a great area. You notice everybody's moving to Texas. They definitely dragons bringing everybody down here. So following him. So at
3:54
any point, did you have a spreadsheet that said, redo house or simply burn house?
4:01
Well, then it's like one of those shows. Like once you see the plans, you're like, Oh, yeah, I want it to look like that. But you know, and oh, guess what I did today was that guess what I did? 30 seconds ago. Oh,
4:12
I know what you did? Yeah, you got into crypto.
4:15
So as we're setting up to do this show, we started having a conversation about cryptocurrency and Bitcoin and people have been telling me to get involved. So in a spur of the moment, while Eric was setting up the mics and everything I bought some Bitcoin Yeah, go Bitcoin.
4:29
Yeah. And and we need to probably have a disclaimer that we know nothing about cryptocurrency. Oh, absolutely. Nothing nice. But yeah, it was really kind of cool to watch you do it.
4:36
Yeah. So we've covered our sponsors. A little word with the person that's choosing them in the future. And so let's jump into the immune episode part two. So even if the audio is a little bit off on that last one, I encourage everyone to look at our last podcast, because I do a detailed explanation in or at least detailed for a simple country butt Dr. That's living in Texas for the innate immune system, and I actually rewatched it when we were getting the comments great information, audio bad. And at the very end, I go, so that covers the adaptive immune system. I'm like, No, I should have no it was the innate, we did not cover the adaptive yet. There's a reason why that's coming, because then we're going to lead into the vaccinations for COVID and things. Right. So that was the innate. But here's what's really cool. We're gonna talk about what Dr. Mark Gordon was talking about on Joe show. And it's super cool. Like we've been on top of this the whole time. It's been it's it's actually huge, huge news for everyone.
5:36
I think a lot of people can learn a lot about what they can do just to protect themselves. And let's small preface, you don't have to just apply the knowledge that you'll pick up today to COVID. COVID actually can begin to fit into other viruses with this talk that we're going to have today.
5:52
Yes. And specifically, this is not a COVID talk. We're not saying that at all. What we're saying is we're gonna talk about how to optimize a well running immune system. Yeah. And so when I talked to some of my colleagues and people discuss different things, Angie, and I were talking that she's like, have you looked at our Mendeley account? So Mendeley is where we put all our articles, and I just did a quick look. We have over 1000 articles regarding immune health and how to optimize it through nutrition and lifestyle. Yeah. So even that is science backed. Everything we're talking about here is completely science backed. In fact, one of the things I wanted to discuss because I think it's really cool is this article that just came out in 2020. It's called the antiviral functional foods and exercise, lifestyle prevention of Coronavirus. That's a very boring title. And those are the kinds of things that I read. And it was published in the Journal of nutrients. What's fascinating about this is that they discuss the things that other people are now just finally starting to talk about. Yeah, so I want to review this article really quick. Then I want to get back to the whiteboard. And hopefully sound a little bit better.
7:06
We're gonna use headphones today.
7:07
Yeah, we're gonna try and use headphones. I got a new mic attached to a hemorrhoid bander because I feel very comfortable holding hemorrhoid banders. Yeah, so that is dry tone right there. That is right there.
7:20
that's almost as good as the Bob Barker microphone from the remember the little skinny one that he had on
7:28
the show? Yeah, when they tell you to go spay and neuter your dog.
7:31
Yeah. spay and neuter your dog spin the wheel. Drive. I can't wait. I had a hard time of that. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Great show.
7:37
So basically, on this article, it's really interesting. Not actually not interesting. For us. It was it just reiterated everything that we've kind of base talking about. What they looked into was functional foods. They called it functional foods, and physical exercise. So the exercise part was a brief part than 90% of the article was talking about functional foods, which they described as functional foods being polyphenols.
8:02
Incredible.
8:02
So the functional foods are polyphenols because of the various mechanisms that they do in the body. We got contacted by an author of the sirt diet. That's sirtuins. And he noticed that we've been talking about polyphenols and said, Wow, you guys are on that. So the whole thing about Adele's diet that she lost all that weight, that's called the sirtuin diet or the sirt diet. And then I've watched it on Dr. Oz. And I was like, there's something about polyphenols, polyphenols. And the reason why is you're gonna see on this whiteboard, how many different ways a functional food like a poly phenol can benefit you definitely. And so the cert diet just means that you turn on certain genes, it's an epigenetic thing. So really quick on the exercise. No big surprise, as it turns out, exercise is pretty good for you. Sure. So they looked at different aspects of it. And what it does do is it does activate natural killer cells, and will induce monocytes to become antigen presenting cells like dendritic cells. If you go I don't know what that is. We talked about that on the last episode. And we're going to get to it again here. So don't worry. That being said, super extreme exercise, which we have talked about this can actually lower your immune system. So many times when people train super hard, and we're talking about like, marathons and triathlons and marathon running. I've had so many patients that get very sick after they really train for something, they go all out, and then they get sick. And it's because I didn't even realize this, that you produce so many reactive oxygen species. This damages cells, which leads to inflammation, you're gonna hear this term over and over again. And then it actually adversely affects your white blood cells ability to fight off infections. Yeah. So the real idea is that regular exercise is really good for you. It gets rid of old immune cells that don't work very well. And you actually stimulate young healthy cells that can actually have a young, healthier immune system. It has been shown that highly conditioned athletes have a much better functioning innate immune system, as opposed to sedentary people. Yeah. So when we're sitting in a viral season, and if you're sedentary and you're overweight, and you got diabetes and high blood pressure, your immune system doesn't work as well. And there's reasons for this in this paper. So then they kind of went through that they're like, yeah, okay, so exercise is good. And then they go into 90% of the rest of the article is discussing polyphenols and the multiple areas that these functional foods benefit our immune system. Okay. And, oh, we're probably jumping ahead. What's a polyphenol?
10:40
Oh, what is it polyphenol?
Yeah, tell everybody what a polyphenol is
little compounds that are found. And fruits and vegetables. Generally they are what can be responsible for the coloration that's inside those fruits and vegetables. And they they're naturally occurring. Some of them are large, or small. But in essence, our bodies love them.
10:59
Absolutely. So I always refer to them as mother nature's secret weapon. This particular article goes into great detail about how the flavonoids, terpenoids alkaloids in the polyphenols, so they can go into that are actually bio active, they can influence genes have peptide qualities, and are broken down by our microbiome into potent anti aging, anti inflammatory, anti cancer metabolites.
11:25
Right. You know, I was thinking about this, how do we bring validation to this part of this study, or the I'm sorry, the discussion, I guess, whenever we're talking about this to people, because I started thinking about, if someone years ago when you were when you were young, and someone said, you probably need more calcium to make your bones strong, you didn't just go to the store and buy sack of calcium, you generally just started drinking more milk or something similar. Or if you were an athlete, and you knew that you needed to make sure that you didn't get cramps, you ate bananas, or ate spinach, all of that stuff, you didn't go and just buy the little element, those elements are naturally occurring in something that you're eating or drinking. That's essentially what we're trying to talk about with polyphenols is there are small little things in there that your body craves, just like your bones want calcium, the these are the vehicles, these are the foods that will deliver what your body wants to maintain health and keep you healthy 100%. And they mentioned how versatile polyphenols are.
12:24
Oh yeah, meaning they function in many different ways. Number one, they can have potential influence on your gut barrier, where they improve the immune system of the gut barrier, the first portion of that, then they actually have epigenetic phenomenon. Most important is that your microbiome will break these things down to beneficial products. And that's going to be something that we've talked about post biotics before, I'm very excited. We've contacted this a PhD in Argentina, who has one of the most amazing articles describing the post biotic effect. And they actually demonstrate that the larger, more complex polyphenol is the best way to consume it. In other words, yeah, you don't want to take the one little molecule. So that's pretty much what they said about polyphenols, because we're gonna talk a lot more about that. And then it kind of like briefly go over Oh, and then there's vitamin D, which is pretty good for y'all. So vitamin D deserves its own show, because it's more like a hormone than it is like a vitamin here. And then they look at a couple other things like vitamin C and stuff, and they kind of gloss over it. And then they come back to the polyphenols. And they're like, and then they reference to the viruses. And they show how there's so much information out there about how these polyphenols actually influence the destruction of multiple viruses like influenza, Zika, virus, HSV, and Corona.
13:45
And there's a mechanism to and there's
13:47
a mechanism for each one of these. So the conclusion is, and this is, I hate to say Joe Rogan, for the third time in about first five minutes, it'll validate what we say. He's always said, why aren't we discussing ways to improve our immune system, prevent ourselves and do this, these guys end the whole article, and by the way, it's thick 20, some pages with references and everything they end it with the conclusion is, this is a pretty cheap and simple way to improve your immune system or optimize, get some exercise, eat some polyphenols and get a little sun. Yeah, that was the combination of it. All right. And and these people put a lot of work into that. And that that's a spoiler alert.
14:31
I think I might have said though it's really, really important is that there's a lot of work. There's a lot of research, there's a lot to take in here. However the solution if you really think about it, it isn't that difficult to adhere to this to keep to keep people healthy. That's actually the coolest part. The summary of it all is polyphenol, sleep exercise. You're off to an incredible start just with that and don't i don't think you should shy away from Rogan at all. He supports tons of other podcasts gives huge mentions to other people. They're doing the same thing. When I heard Dr. Mark on this morning with him, I just I liked it because it not only was somebody else talking about the same subject, but he was doing it in such detail that we like to talk about it, that I encourage you, we're not the only ones who have this level of research and are seeing these kinds of results with people.
15:22
Oh, it's so cool. And now because we're in these circles with these PhDs, I'm getting preliminary data on different studies where it's humans, where they're looking at what I'm going to talk about here. Yeah. So what I thought we could do is try and do round two, you put some headphones on,
15:37
I'm going to have to,
15:38
I'm going to grab my Bob Barker mic right here. I'm going to turn this one
15:46
that was kind of quiet. And now I'm going to come back like this. There he is. This is why we have headphones. This is
15:52
why we have headphones. And now I'm going to switch the camera
probably should have you looked at the computer to make sure that I'm in focus and everything. And now, let's do a recap of the last. And that's not a window of the last podcast that we did. This is a kind of quicker version of what we did. And this is to get everybody up to speed because when we talk about polyphenols, we need to make sure that you understand exactly what's going on and why there are functional food. So just to recap, the innate immune system is your response to any type of damage, whether that damage is through physical damage, whether that damage is through infection, whether that damage is through repeated poor diet choices, your body is going to try and repair itself. So let's walk through what happens. The first step, step one, let's just assume that you have an infection. If you have a virus or bacteria, what it will do is it will attack a cell. So that cell no matter what it is, sounds an alarm. And it notifies its neighbor, which is kind of its bodyguard, the mast cell. The mast cell then releases what is called braided cinan. This is really neat, because if you ever sprained an ankle or done anything, this is what's going on. The braided cinan send different proteins or cytokines to the blood vessel. First step is the blood vessel. And what it does is it actually normally the blood vessels have very tight seals, what it does is the blood vessels pull apart a little bit to allow fluid to come out. Well, the reason for that is is that you want the swelling to contain whatever's going on. You sprained an ankle, you go oh my gosh, look at my ankle, it's so swollen, well, it's there for a reason, because that fluid is trying to concentrate what your body needs in the same area. So the fluid starts coming out step to these braded cinan, and different other cytokines send up little flags, just like Velcro sticks. And these are called intercellular adhesion molecules. And what they do is they grab white blood cells that are swimming by so these white blood cells have these little hooks and they get hit and they stop and they go, Oh, what's going on all the fluids going out that way, I'm gonna go out that way. So then the white blood cells join this little party over here. This is what ends up causing redness, swelling and pain anytime you have any type of infection, anytime you have any type of injury. So now we have these white blood cells, what they do is they go, Oh, that mast cell told us to go that way. And so the white blood cells head over to what's going on. And then this allows your body to fight the intruder that's doing this. So that's step one. So now these white blood cells come around. You heard me say in that other study the antigen presenting cells. So one of these types of cells, which is a phagocyte, will actually first thing it does is it swallows the invader, bacteria, virus, fungus, whatever it is, swallows it, and the reason why does it it digests it, and then it breaks it apart and goes, Okay, this is what it looks like. So it puts wanted posters on its outside. So this guy said, I know what's attacking us now, this, this guy right here. So these antigen presenting cells, put it on the outside, and then they do something else. They release cytokines, specifically, multiple cytokines, but the important ones are TNF alpha, interleukin six, interleukin one, interleukin eight, and you're going to hear a lot more about this, because I'm talking to scientists all over the world. And people are now studying specifically how we can use functional foods to control this response. So TNF alpha, does a lot of things. It's a pro inflammatory cytokine. And so we know that TNF alpha is used in very expensive drugs block that for rheumatory arthritis for Crohn's disease for ulcerative colitis for all of that. So TNF alpha does something kind of interesting that I found unique is it actually goes to the hypothalamus and it increases your core body temperature. So when I say these are bad, they're really good for you in small amounts, it's when it becomes too much that it becomes bad. So TNF alpha hits the hypothalamus increases, and that's how you get fever, interleukin six, it goes to the bone marrow and increases the white blood cells. So this is why you have that achy feeling if you've ever had the flu, or if you're gonna get a vaccine, and you go, Oh, my gosh, I had a vaccine, that kind of hurt, I feel like I have a low level flu. It's because the bone marrow is producing more white blood cells. interleukin one goes to the liver to produce acute inflammatory reactance, which goes into something called the complement system. But that inflammation is what we measure in people. In fact, cardiologists use this all the time they look at C reactive protein, yeah, because when you have inflammation, the liver produces this. So people with coronary disease will have increased levels of that, and then interleukin eight.
Fascinating, it basically produces more of those little Velcro hands. So then we come all the way back to the blood vessel. And now we've got dilation, fluid coming out. And every white blood cell that's coming through gets grabbed. So when you have the white blood cells producing here, you've got the fever, which increases the amount of blood flow heart rate is faster, everything. It's an phenomenal and just beautiful little system. Yeah, it is. And when it works great. It's exactly what we need. It's exactly what you need. In the acute phase. Definitely the innate immune system is here to protect you in the first phase. So now step three of the innate immune system out of you, but that's the antigen presenting cell, the one that we were talking about over here, sometimes they sometimes they get overwhelmed, and the virus actually wins. So the poor little guy dies. It's that's a good cartoon. Yeah, so the poor guy dies here. So the antigen presenting cell dies. So it leaves rubble, so it's comes out and the body even gets that. So reactive oxygen species are left behind, that's known as oxidative stress. That's good in small amounts, because that will kill other things around it. Assuming that this guy got overwhelmed when he dies. Maybe other cells are being overwhelmed, and then that oxidative stress will kill it. Yep. This is known as a reactive oxygen species or reactive nitrogen species. But when that goes on for a long time, that's what actually causes chronic disease, like heart disease, cancer, aging, this is actually why we age, reactive oxygen species, autoimmune disease, dementia and obesity. Nobody ever thought that you can become fat because you have low level chronic inflammation. And I've talked about this on other episodes.
22:56
Definitely.
22:57
So final step here is the thing you didn't know about, which is the toll like receptors, right? Okay, so toll like receptors is just another layer of defense, where if these toll like receptors are actually activated, they do very specific things. For instance, the toll like receptor number seven, is very specific to release certain things to fight RNA viruses. You can go through these others, there are ones that are built to fight bacteria that are flageolets flageolets. Yeah, I think we're both saying that wrong, but that's okay. fragilities, flageilities. And they also do something that we have talked about before, I want to say we talked about it. On at least three episodes, I can think of the epigenetic phenomenon of nuclear factor Kappa beta NFKB. So when the toll like receptors turned on NFKB goes up. And NFKB is the one that we talked about with the broccoli episode, right? with David Roberts and john gilday. On Yeah, this is the one that actually has a what's called plio trophic phenomenon. So it affects many different things. So when NF Kappa beta is turned on, then you go through a huge surge of our old friends, TNF alpha, interleukin six, right? So he has more inflammation with inflammation, the common theme of inflammation, right? So inflammation, what does inflammation lead to? Oh, this dementia, autoimmune aging, cancer, heart attack na, so this innate immune system is here. The other thing that I did not mention was that when the toll like receptors get turned on, like this toll like receptor number seven, which is for viruses, one of the things that releases is interferons. interferons, actually, are molecules that directly destroy cells that have been infected with viruses. So if you were to get a virus, you breathe it in through your nose, let's say it goes to your lungs, a cell is being attacked, it can actually send a signal to a healthy cell says We're under attack, you need to be ready for this. And that's the little cell that waits with a gun at the door. So when the virus rings, the doorbell goes and shoots it. That's not proper technique and how you shoot it. We've
25:21
seen actual footage of this going down at a microscopic level. So yeah,
25:24
it's it's fascinating. Yeah, absolutely. It's like watching an old Western, just like oh, my gosh, and the. And it's totally true. Because the viruses that show up, they always wear black hats every time every time. Yeah. So that's a recap of very quick recap of what we talked about last episode. Yeah, I get it a little bit more detail. How's it? How's the sound quality?
25:47
The sound is much better than last time.
25:49
Okay, good. So hopefully, we'll continue with this. So how do we describe how functional foods work? Because our big thing last time was improve your immune system do this, but nobody talks about how, why?
26:05
I've got a question for you. So when we look at this, and I think this is a reasonable question, you look at it, and we're talking about all the bad manifestations that happen. When there's too much TNF alpha, or aisle six or aisle one, we have too much row s, or I'm sorry, reactive oxygenation, species, ultimately, too much inflammation. But I needed all of this to happen. So, Dr. Brown, what is it that I'm missing? That would help me not have the system that I need? That keeps me alive and safe, run out of control? And basically, ultimately destroy me anyhow?
26:42
Absolutely. So what we're talking about is how do you optimize? Yeah, well, running immune system. Definitely. One of the theories right now is that why do younger people not get sick with the current virus that's going around, is because they have a very good innate immune system. As we age, as I mentioned, as we age or you become sedentary, possibly, this happens. And so you go, Oh, well, I still don't get that. We'll imagine this. Imagine quietly, this attack happens, virus, bacteria, anything, and your innate immune system is kind of slow to react. And by the time it realizes, Oh, my gosh, something's going on. Many cells have been infected. Which means when these cytokines go up, it's a huge amount. If you have a really healthy innate immune system, you catch it at the first cell. Yep. So let's talk about functional foods. functional foods, functional foods, polyphenols, so I'm going to use these little brand. These little hexagons. Yeah. Demonstrate functional six added. Yes. Excited. Whatever you go.
27:50
All right. Now hexagon, you're
27:52
right. This is all based off of science. All based off of very detailed documented, I want to thank every PhD out there who goes through this kind of trouble and probably gets no recognition. Because this is Sony. And, you know, we're talking about so when Dr. Mark Gordon was on his show today, he didn't really understand why course it's an or why tumeric does this. Let's talk about that. Let's do that. All right, step one. So this will represent the different stages that it actually happens. Step one, intestinal gut health, intestinal gut health, that's your first barrier. Anything that comes in, you're going to make sure that you have a good healthy working gut, healthy work in gut. Step two. We know that it has potent antiviral activity. I mentioned earlier in the other article about how these functional foods can actually destroy viruses on contact.
28:52
So we've got gut and the virus itself.
28:54
antivirus itself step. If the virus makes it past that, inside the cell itself, is the M protease that allows the virus but bacteria do this also. It has to attach to the cell. Well, what does it do? It prevents it from attaching then, oh my gosh, this is a really tough virus and it made it through all these lines of defense already. Yeah. Well, as it turns out, bunch of foods polyphenols actually work zinc Ionafores and prevent the replication
29:35
Hmm. Blocking replicase
29:37
replicase correct. Nice actually blocks the replication.
29:42
So So right now we have four tags up and we're still on number one of the innate immune system. That's
29:47
why it's so important to understand the innate immune system. Yes. And why nobody's talking about this. I'm going to keep going. Yeah, and this is not once again, this is not my opinion. Yeah. We've got 1000 articles to To show all of it, right? Okay, so now we got our friend, the mast cell over here and everything that I'm saying is not an on or off switch, it's the optimized way to do it. If your body needs it, these functional foods help it ramp it up. If it doesn't, it does it. Alright, so the mast cell that releases the braided cinans that go to the blood vessel, oh, the mast cell actually gets stabilized by functional foods, polyphenols, nice. So it doesn't overreact or under react, then it's almost like, really, truly Mother Nature's secret weapon, then the blood vessels which release the fluids, there's something called or I forgot what the actual enzyme is, but it actually attenuates the enzyme that creates the leakage. So it controls the amount of fluid that comes out. And in the same line, what it does is it actually controls the amount of the adhesion molecules, so all those little hooks that grab that, right, it actually does the optimum amount for that. Okay. So getting back, this is why Dr. Mark Gordon was like, Oh, we have shown that it helps with inflammation, I'm going to tell you exactly where it helps, right whole pathway. Okay, so we've now blocked the little adhesion molecules so that only the right amount of cells come out, only the right amount of cells come out. And remember, when I said that it monocytes become our antigen presenting cells, it helps them mature. Oh, it's like steroids for those guys.
31:35
So it activates them. It's a growth hormone, right? So we're allowing these phagocytes to now do their role. And by having the right amount of polyphenols available, it's going to do it quicker.
31:45
Exactly. So we're now heading to step two. So what does it do? Oh, yeah. It helps the antigen presenting cells, taking the vacuoles and put those different proteins on the outside quicker, because it's already made these more mature. And then we get to the real important part, it tells the antigen presenting cell, yo, be a little careful how many cytokines you send out. Hmm. So there's multiple studies looking at each one of these. And so I'll do this real quick. While you're
32:19
putting those up there, I'll just add that Dr. Gordon spoke today specifically about how high circulating cytokines lead to insomnia and an inability to rest enough because it causes neural inflammation, which is just building on it. That's
32:33
right. He did, he talked to specifically about that. And that's that brain gut connection and percent inflammation, that's what we always talk about. So as it turns out, it tells the antigen presenting cell, Hey, be careful what you do, then just to make sure as another safeguard, it specifically will control how much TNF alpha, how much interleukin six, how much interleukin one and how much interleukin eight is actually necessary. And these are all documented on specific studies. And I know that these are being done in humans right now, because I'm getting preliminary results. And they're showing very specific in vivo, meaning people that have this kind of situation, actually decrease these different cytokines. So it's not just a total decrease. It's the right amount. So if you need more white blood cells, then there's no reason to shut it off completely. Right. Like we just can't You can't be smarter than Mother Nature. Yeah, comes down to Okay, how am I sounding sound good. All right. Now, let's go to it's a lot better than last week. So so let's go to Step three, the antigen presenting cells that do this, also do another job, briefly, which we will get into in some other episode, or will bring a better person to do it. Some of those cells go to the lymph system, where they then activate the adaptive immune system where they form antibodies.
33:56
Very, very important,
33:58
relevant right now, because if everybody's running out getting a vaccine, that's what you're working on worthless unless you have this optimal.
34:04
Yeah. 100%.
34:06
So we won't get into that. But guess what functional foods polyphenols do?
34:10
Oh, you don't even tell me that. They also work on that side. They also work on that. It's almost like your body wants polyphenols.
34:16
It's almost like your body wants polyphenols. And of course, while we're at it, I mean, it's like it's almost like no, no, now he's just going overboard. No, no, I mean, it's, trust me, I read every article. It's like I feel like I'm making stuff up. Now. It helps produce interferons. It helps control the toll like receptors.
34:43
So means you're just a side note. interferon if anybody's ever dealt with early stage, melanoma, I mean, there are various cancers that you actually had to end up getting injections for interferon.
34:54
I did I really thought you're gonna go if anybody's ever dealt with herpes. Now I'm dead serious. Yeah, like Libya isn't interferon?
35:02
Absolutely. It isn't interferon. I'm just saying I guess what I was going is, is that
35:07
if you've ever dealt with herpes, you kind of looked at me like, no.
35:11
That's how I felt.
35:16
But this is true. So drugs do this. You're exactly right. chemo drugs and drugs like a cycle of beer. They're their interferons. Yeah, because they block viruses. So polyphenols help increase the amount of interference when it's necessary. Correct. And by blocking the toll like receptors and controlling that. They actually decrease nuclear factor Kappa beta nfkb. We had that talk with Brocelite. So polyphenols and sulforaphane block, NF Kappa beta. So
35:46
I was making sure that you're making contact with the people in the room. Do you think I was I was waving over somewhere else?
35:52
I thought you were having a hallucination. So all right, so we blocked NF Kappa beta, which ultimately we know does the most major thing inflammation. So we've been saying a long time that the Mediterranean diet is an anti aging, anti inflammatory diet. Yes. This is why when Adele did her sert diet, this is why it works. You decrease overall inflammation, definitely the whole process. And because, oh, I skipped a little step here. But one thing that we always talk about is the potent antioxidant effects.
36:33
Yeah, I'm glad you're getting this part because we're going to augment this little section here, too.
36:37
Yeah. So tell me what you got to say about antioxidant.
36:39
What is it immediately takes me back because ROS is something that Joe botel and we've referenced her on the show multiple times. But when she was talking specifically about long endurance athletes and how they get injury, and how certain people who are high performance athletes get injured and have a difficult time recovering, it's often because they don't have good control of their RMS or reactive oxygenation species. you're pointing at something, but I'm not on camera. Oh, I am now. So there we go. I didn't know that. There's no red lights in here, by the way. But I find that to be a really big key aspect about rlms. And what polyphenols do because she specifically said to it to decrease healing time and increase optimal athletic performance, high polyphenol concentration, or normal amount is a must, and that our bodies are simply waiting on enough polyphenols to do this job.
37:34
Yes. 100%. So now the final part here is more of a vague, you get a picture camera now to fix the camera. You can't take me by surprise anymore. I mean, we can hire Mike to find our to find our podcast sponsors, but we can't even hire a good audio visual guy.
37:50
I don't think that hot dog company comes with that.
37:56
Alright, so we get down to this last thing here, which is chronic disease. So what we talked about low level inflammation. This is how you can protect yourself against heart disease, cancer, aging, autoimmune dementia and obesity. And I put this one up as a general one, because we mentioned it a little bit, I want to talk about it right after this, about how large stable polyphenols I found an article that showed the more hydroxyl bonds on the outside, more beneficial is. That's why when we initially were developing Atrantil, and Dr. Bruce Burnett looked at this and said you picked the perfect poly phenol to be the most bioactive and most diverse.
38:37
That's all he does. There's there's more points to do stuff. It's like more surfaces. It's more
38:41
surface area. Exactly. And then in addition to that, we know that in all these articles, so if you're somebody you're like, Oh, I already take tumeric. I already take quercetin and that's awesome. Keep doing that. Yeah, keep doing that. But you have to understand something tumeric and quercetin don't get directly absorbed, they actually have to go to the microbiome where they get broken down into the metabolites. I've got articles to show what is the effective metabolite, of quercetin. So when Dr. Mark was talking about that, I want to tell him, that's awesome. But you better make sure that you have a good microbiome. So what this represents is the prebiotic ability of polyphenols to diversify your microbiome so that when you take these things, you're getting the appropriate we're gonna call them the appropriate metabolites. I call them post biotics, but we're gonna call him the appropriate metabolite.
39:31
It's a honestly it's kind of like if, if you look at the way that he talked about ecgc, and, and tumeric, and trying to enforce it and etc. He broke all those down and talked about their beneficial natures as it pertains to inflammation. But what you're describing, if I can kind of put it into layman's terms, it's almost as if that is great. And you can get an Uber to have that delivered to somewhere and you hope it's a great car and you hope It gets you there comfortably. But in order for it to be effective and get there on time you want a private car you want the limousine. The limousine is the larger molecule, the all natural, larger parent molecule, if you will, kind of like what's in Atrantil and abbraccio to do that,
40:17
exactly. So what you want to be able to do and what we're saying is not just supplements. Now, this is why you want to have a very colorful plate. That's why you want to have lots of fruits and vegetables. Yeah, continue to do that. Try to do every non GMO foods and vegetables. But when we're talking about polyphenols, very few things concentrate polyphenols, so when you're like, Oh, I heard Dr. Oz talked about reservatrol polyphenol. Oh, I heard someone so talk about Kirsten, polyphenol. Oh, but you know what? I drink green tea, polyphenol. Yeah. And they all get broken down. Here's what's fascinating. And I can't wait to do this. When we have Dr. Sylvia on her research is showing that you can produce quercetin egcg, which is green tea extract. You can produce the metabolites of curcumin and all these things from larger tannins. Yeah, that's what I mean, this is so fascinating, and your body knows how to do it. And you know what? I mean? Do me a favor, when you get done watching this, go to COVID? episode number two, because we did that in March. Yeah. And we were right, because we talked to scientists all the time. We're always doing this. So Sofia said, You know what, I'm gonna challenge you not to we will share the mic even though the You and I both been tested, like yesterday. Yeah, for COVID and we're negative, can you walk through and just explain what each one of these days does really quick,
41:30
I'm going to try Okay, so that a right there is going to prevent the virus itself that a if there's for the gut microbiome, that a I believe is going to prevent it from binding to that set of cells, that one is going to function as a zincionafor prevent or allowing zinc to go in and stop the replicates that is a mast cell that's going to help control the number of goodness gracious, I guess those little inflammatory markers that are going to go to the blood vessel braided cinans kind of There you go, and then be circulated which of course, we're going to regulate the amount of fluid that's going to leave the bloodstream and we're going to stop the amount of flags are gonna pop up as appropriate. Orders one, Oh, that one is a phagocytes, that's going to improve the the maturation of the phagocytes the one just below it is going to help the phagocytes since they are maturing more quickly, it's going to allow the them to display quicker and then it's going to regulate the number of cytokines which is TNF alpha, IL six, IL one and il eight. And I don't know if I'm gonna go through the mechanisms of those but that's okay. Oh, yeah, good, quick. TNF. Alpha is for the brain. IL six is for the bone and it's because of white blood cell maturation IL one is for infection and inflammatory things that come from the liver and i l eight, is what is going to basically start the cycle all over again, where the fluid is, is being summoned and redness, swelling and pain.
42:55
Excellent. Stage three.
42:56
Okay, that's the presenting. Yeah, it is. And that's where the cells dying, we get to oxygen a oxidative stress. Yeah, it says that. But we need to control our ros because it's not the RO S is bad. Too much ros, though, can lead to long term heart disease, cancer, aging, autoimmune dementia, obesity, and adaptive antibodies, we aren't going to go all the way through there. But essentially, aside from the innate immune system, we need help in the adaptive immune system as well.
43:28
It would be fascinating to see what the antibody levels of people that are vaccinated if you're scientists out there on your on your cool study will supply you with some big polyphenols and see if people mount a better antibody response. If it lasts longer. These are all just fascinating questions. What's this?
43:45
So when we get over here to TLR, we this is what is going to function as another flag zone, where we're going to signal the liver to then produce interferon, which functions to fight cancers and all kinds of different things like that. And then we have NF kb. We've talked about this extensively, whenever we had Brock elite on the show, both john and David was gonna say, Robert, but it's David Roberts on the show. And essentially, what we want to do is not have this gigantic burst of TNF alpha, and IL six because it's just going to turn into more inflammation. And again, Polly finos once again, aren't going to abandon you. They're still going to work even on that end. Okay.
44:32
You're so much smarter than I thought you were. Nice job.
44:36
I just remember a lot.
44:38
Can you hear me on this one?
44:39
Yeah, yeah, that was never good.
44:41
You can probably take the headphones off now to show everybody. So did that make sense? I
44:47
think it makes a lot of sense. I mean, it's a lot of information. Not everybody is going to just readily walk away, like we just did from it, but watch it several times. I think though, really what we're trying to show here is that We don't want to just say that we don't want to just say that polyphenols they'll work with with viral or bacterial infection. This is something that I wish more people would do you tell me that something works. Just explain how show me how how do you know that it's going to work? And I'm not saying that people don't have markers or blood enzymes or circulating things that they measure, they see things go down. That's important that lets you know that we're on the right track. But this kind of stuff, this kind of research that you've been sifting through with Angie, is just awesome. Because now it's almost like putting a name to the face. We can see how it's working.
Exactly. So I think it's important.
45:41
And this doesn't just stop here because you know, Angie's episode, people, it's really being shared a lot. Oh, yeah, just people if you have pots or Ehlers danlos or CBOE or anything, people thousands of downloads on the podcast, by the way. Yeah. And she describes how when you have NF Kappa beta up, yeah, you're gonna have decreased acetylcholine when TNF alpha like this is all the balance in that. Yeah. The key is to see the colon whenever Yeah, but that's a whole separate conversation. This is strictly on the innate immune system, right. And so I find it fascinating. I find it fascinating that when I listen to another doctor talk about this, and I'm like that I very much like, very much like me, like, I'll listen to stuff and the patients will ask me, they're like, hey, do you know about this? And I'm like, I don't have the bandwidth and the time to do it. That's awesome, which is why I kind of tasked or I didn't task. She did it on her own, which is why Angie learned so much about dysautonomia, like I just don't have that in me right now or the time to do it. And she crushed it. Yeah. And one of the what we've been emailing, she's been emailed by so many people, she's gonna keep going, she's gonna end up writing a book and probably saving a lot of people. And so this is this is first step, innate immune system. I tell all my patients, let's exercise a little I don't care what you do, just get up off the couch and move around, right? Doesn't really matter what, don't eat highly processed foods, like high fructose corn syrup, soybean oil, anything, you're open in a package, read the label, because that breaks down that Mary, Mary Mary first step, which is gut health. All health begins and ends in the gut, definitely. And then get your polyphenols, get a little sun, get some sleep. Do you do that? That's better than what's better than most are doing.
47:32
I mean, it really is. And it's, it seems complicated. And but in the end, the actionable items really aren't that complicated.
47:41
I mean, when we're in some weird times, I mean, let's be honest, we're taping this episode. The day after we had that weird thing that happened last night or yesterday where
47:51
you didn't get your change back at the store. I didn't
47:53
get my change back. I'm still upset about that. The lady was clearly distracted, because apparently our government was overrun by
48:02
Oh, yeah, that was a big deal. Yeah.
48:05
And so these are stressful times. Yeah, we got to keep the inflammation down. There's nothing to cause inflammation. Yeah, don't, don't bring it upon yourself. Don't eat bad. Don't lose sleep, and make sure that you get your polyphenols.
48:17
To my knowledge, polyphenols won't directly help bad politics, but maybe those politicians could use some more polyphenols and they wouldn't act so crazy.
48:26
Oh my gosh, don't even get me started. Because what I want to do, and I believe that this will be the future we're gonna be sitting here 50 years from now we're gonna look the same because of the anti aging qualities of polyphenols. The 50 years from now we're gonna be like, wasn't that great that they put psilocybin in the water so that we all treat each other nice. You know? It's so you're just gonna pull up instead of Starbucks, you're gonna pull up to MDMA cafes? And I'm not kidding. Like the research on that is like, we're gonna go there also. Yeah, there. Somebody joined at baby bathwater Dr. Raven, I was reading his profile, really cool. And we're gonna I'm gonna try to bring him on here. But he's got a device called an Apollo device, which vibrates when you're not breathing appropriately, which means if and we're gonna do a whole episode on breath work, and we got our we just got all kinds of cool stuff to do. But you can't, you can't leave this hanging like, this is important. Look at all those. Look at all those one last time here. Let's just look at the amount of places.
49:29
Places I'm just counting right now. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 19 20 looks like there's almost 20 things out there
49:40
that I found in a guy like Bruce Burnett, sitting at home, he's like, there's 38 you're missing the critical ones. 38 on line one. I know. Well, this is this is what you get when you let a doctor try and try and try and describe this.
49:54
Yeah, but seriously, I think the takeaway here is that we can put there's no Muscle behind the message there, it really does work. And this is not specific to any one virus or any one bacteria. This is what your body needs in order for your immune system to work efficiently just so happens, that it works really, really well for what a lot of people are concerned about.
50:18
It does and you just came up with a whole new idea. But as we close this out I think I'm gonna attach this next time I do a hemorrhoid on a patient so we can hear
50:27
the hemorrhoid. Be sure that requires some type of consent. But yeah, I think it's awesome.
50:34
All right. So thank you, everyone, for listening to this. I hope that this is something that makes some sense, please share it, subscribe to the YouTube channel. Subscribe to the I guess all the other platforms, iTunes and Spotify and
50:52
we are honestly the run on Atrantil at the KBMD store has been kind of intense over the last two months. So number one, thanks for everyone for sharing all the information here recently we're doing all that we can to bring that part back online but we'll have an associated discount probably with this particular show. Just in general with with the immune system. Yeah, and as soon as that rolls out, then we'll make that available and all the show notes etc.
51:15
Totally and thank you diarrhea dogs for this episode go to diarrhea dogs.com put in code Mike for a 98% discount.
51:26
I can't wait to find out what people email in and say what's it diarrhea dogs.com.
51:33
Remember, it's code Mike, for 98% discount.
51:39
I think it's probably gonna do it for us. Thank you all for joining us on the gut check project please like and share and we will see y'all with 48 with some continuation on the immune system. Talk to you then
51:49
bye bye. Thank you.
Immunity, immune system boosting, vaccinations, and more… What does it mean to “ post your immunity”? TV ads and news personalities tell us all kinds of tips, but is their advice just being repeated without understanding? The immune system has become a bio-celebrity and it doesn’t look like that is going to change anytime soon. In this episode you can begin to learn simply the basics as we address how the innate immune system functions. We will follow up this episode with further discussion to better give you the tools that you need to understand what your immune system is and how to protect it. Join us today, and like and share with a friend!
Eric Rieger 0:00
All right, everyone, it is now Episode Number 45 Hello KB MD health family and GCP gut check project fans. I'm Eric here with my co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. We've got an incredible show today. And well, this guy's always referred to a special secret weapon and I'm gonna let him unveil it here in just a moment. But I'm gonna go ahead before he talks about why this secret weapon is a secret weapon. Let's just talk that here in just a moment. Angie cook is a registered nurse. She has some issues such as dysautonomia, miles Ehlers danlos, colonic inertia, severe constipation, all of these different things that she's got experience with that she could actually share a personal story. So, Ken, what brought us here? All right, so
Ken Brown 0:53
this is what Alright, so this episode is very dear to my heart. And people that don't experience this, you're going to go out? That's kind of an odd topic. But I'm telling you, you want to listen to this. Because we know that there's a connection between digestive health, gut inflammation and the possibility of developing other symptoms, other issues, like dysautonomia, and before you just turn it off? You're like, what's that? Like? Whoa, that's what Angie is going to tell us about today. So Angie, I've always referred to her as my secret weapon on the podcast, you can go back to almost one of the first episodes that we've ever done one, Episode 45. And first of all, Angie, thank you so much for your incredible diligence to researching and backing everything by science. So I get emails from all over the world. And people say, Hey, can you help me with this? And I will email you and say, is there any chance that you could find this article, and then you find me 50 articles related to that, and we sift through them. So one of the most impressive things is that you're a patient of mine, that has gone from having some symptoms, to learning so much about it, that you've actually gotten your master's in nutrition. And you realize that part of this process is that you and I are now a team. And I've gotten to the point where I'm relying on you for information. And this is my exposition of us saying, look, you know so much more than me about this, we need to get this out to the public. And this is what I want to do. I did Chris kresser, his podcast a couple months ago. And immediately him and I ran to the same conclusion. It's not about the bacteria. It's not about this, it's about the motility. What do we do about that? What is it and so what we're going to talk about today is the motility about everything. And your history is incredible. Because if you're somebody who's ever felt frustrated, by the lack of attention that maybe you've gotten in medical community, if you're somebody who's felt frustrated that you're being blown off or anything like that, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna go from Angie's story about what she has gone through. And then we're gonna geek out on a level that I am so impressed by. So if you're shavon Sarna and you're the CBOE summit person, you're gonna want to listen to this one if you're Chris kresser. I got an email from Ben Greenfield just today or yesterday. Yeah, today asking about what different help with some CBOE people I feel like and what I feel like because this hasn't been done is because you sent me 30 pages of that, I know that you figured this out. This is like the first time ever, these puzzle pieces have been put together. And I'm so excited. So I want to say first of all, I'm honored to be your doctor. Secondly, I'm disappointed I didn't figure it out. And I have not figured it out yet. Thirdly, I'm super proud of your resilience, of your drive and of your determination to not only help yourself, but ultimately share it with other people. So I'm thrilled about this podcast, we have Angie cook on the podcast, Rn, a nutrition Master's in nutrition and just beginning her road to helping lots of people I know this and I know that you're gonna end up writing a book and I know that you're gonna be the motility expert, and that's what we're gonna talk about today. So, welcome.
Angie Cook 4:42
Thank you, no pressure there.
Eric Rieger 4:46
I just want to say that was the most detailed introduction we've ever done for anybody
Angie Cook 4:54
i know i kind of want to run into the other room and hide under a cover
Eric Rieger 4:59
in Episode 46 sakes, what are we talking about the stuff that we just did in the introduction.
Ken Brown 5:04
But in all sincerity, it's that important to me. And it's that important that you help me. You teach me so that I can help other people. That's why we're doing this. Definitely.
Angie Cook 5:16
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Ken Brown 5:18
Absolutely. So I'm gonna throw it back at Eric and let him kind of lead. And I'm just going to try and pop in occasionally, because I'm a huge superfan of you. So I'm going to try not to interrupt every 30 seconds.
Eric Rieger 5:31
Not a problem, not a problem. So Angie, whenever we are dealing with issues of motility, not everyone necessarily understands what the problem is. So when you began to experience problems, and not really even knowing that it was a motility issue, what did you first experience? And then who did you go to to try to find out answers? And then also you take it from there,
Angie Cook 5:55
right. So I'm to share a little bit about my story. My problems started about eight years ago. And so what happened was at that time, I was actually pretty healthy. I didn't have any kind of diagnoses, I didn't have any medications, I didn't see a doctor on a regular basis for any kind of ongoing reasons. And over a very short period of time, I had sort of what I described as the perfect storm of things happening, and they sort of seemed a little bit unrelated. But the first thing that happened was I started having abdominal pain. And I did have a little bit of trouble with the bowel movements. But my main issue was I just started having really severe pain. So I started by seeing my gynecologist, and I went to him and they found a very large ovarian cyst. So I had surgery right away to get that taken care of. But I still had problems, I still had pain. So then he sent me to another doctor who was a surgeon. And they thought maybe I had appendicitis. So I ended up I did have a problem with my appendix and they removed it. But after that surgery, which was just 30 days after the first so I had two surgeries within 30 days. Both my gynecologist and my surgeon said, Well, we think you're just constipated. And I was shocked. I was like, What do you mean, I'm constipated. I've never had a problem with bowel movements. I've never taken any kind of medication. It's never been anything that has been an issue. For me, it's always been a non issue. Even though I've been having a little bit of trouble, I didn't really consider it constipation. And so I found out very quickly that I did have constipation, and that the pain was relieved when I took medication. But the problem was that I needed a lot of medication. It wasn't just like a normal laxative over the counter, I needed very high doses. And it took my body a very long time to do anything once I took the medication. So they told me to go find a gastroenterologist. And that's when it came to you, Dr. Brown. And all of this happened within about six or eight weeks from where I thought I was fine to where I was severely incapacitated.
Eric Rieger 8:10
So in that, at that point, when you when you end up going to obviously see Ken and you go to his clinic, I've gotten to know a little bit more about your story, just simply because not only do you experienced this issue and do a lot of research on it, you do tons of research for for both of us on various topics. So we we've exchanged quite a bit. I've seen you though, as you've moved through and and hit roadblocks and challenges. So this isn't just as if you went to Ken's office, and then Oh, you've got constipation, allama gi, this must be pretty easy to fix. In fact, you've probably encountered a much different scenario what was
Angie Cook 8:49
right. So when I first started, started seeing Dr. Brown, we did all kinds of tests. And you know, I mean, Dr. Brown, you've been amazing, because a lot of patients with motility issues when well let me back up. So what we ended up finding out was that I was diagnosed with colonic inertia. So basically that is a diagnosis that is very similar to constipation, but it's the most severe type of constipation you can imagine. So basically, what happens is your colon just becomes paralyzed and nothing moves and it causes severe pain. Severe bloating, can cause nausea and vomiting. And it can be even a really dangerous issue because if you can't move anything, you're at risk for obstructions and other complications and things like that. So early on, I knew that my problem was really severe. I started seeing Dr. Brown we went through all the usual tests, and then I got this diagnosis. What's interesting though, is that I found later on that I didn't realize it at the time, but I had some things going on with my neck. So about a year or two after I was diagnosed We realized my neck problems had progressed, I actually had several spinal cord at several discs on my spinal cord that were herniated, but I had one that was actually herniated, and it was pressed into my spinal cord. So it was causing severe myelopathy. So I really think that that probably triggered some of my problem and contributed a lot to trigger this kalinic ownership, you know, starting so.
Ken Brown 10:25
So Angie, let me just stop right there when you say it caused myelopathy, which is different than when if somebody's listening, they're like, well, I had a bulging disc, I didn't have constipation. Yeah, explain briefly what you mean by that.
Angie Cook 10:37
So I actually had three discs that were a problem, my see four or five disc, the five, six and the six, seven. So the way I found out about it was I had a lot of left upper extremity pain, numbness, it was just I felt like maybe I had torn my rotator cuff. But I was also having all these gi issues. And I even thought maybe I had a mess because I couldn't feel my legs very well. So what happens is normally when a disc herniated it herniates to one side or the other, and that's what causes Radiculopathy. And you can have that in your upper extremities or your lower extremities. And that's when you get that pain and the numbness and tingling and all that. But my disc at the top does the C four or five discs actually herniated back instead of to the side. So it was pressed halfway through the spinal cord. And when I ended up having surgery, The surgeon said it was very bad that anything like a simple slip or fall, that disc could have fallen or could have been pushed all the way through the cord, there would have been no forgiveness that could have been paralyzed. And he said that it had been pressed into the spinal cord for so long and so hard that when he removed the disc, and actually there was a hole on the spinal cord, it started gushing spinal fluid everywhere. So it was more than just like a simple disc that it's herniated to the side causing problems. That was the problem with the two disc below. And that's kind of what alerted me. Something's going on. I need to see a doctor. But the main problem was the desk that was pressed into the spinal cord.
Eric Rieger 12:10
And so you feel like this was probably a catalyst that ended up resulting in, right.
Angie Cook 12:15
I mean, once this happened, I could look back and see that there were several warning signs, I didn't have an injury or anything like that. Probably what happened is I had very severe osteophytes, which are bone spurs, and they started pushing the disk out of alignment. And I was having headaches, I was having migraines, I had started noticing that I couldn't really feel things. Like if I was shaving my legs and I cut myself I couldn't feel it. I didn't know it until I saw myself bleeding. But by the time that I realized that it was a problem, and I was having all the other symptoms it had progressed to the point I was actually having trouble walking. And I couldn't feel anything below my waist. And I was actually having the fecal incontinence at night in my sleep. So it was very severe.
Eric Rieger 12:59
Man, I am so sorry that you had to go through really any of it. Just Yeah,
Angie Cook 13:04
so I'm sure that that probably contributed to the colonic inertia. But really, at the time that this happened, I didn't know much about any of this. I was a nurse. I'd been a nurse for a long time, I'd never heard of it. I when I got the diagnosis, I started going on Google to try to read and I just got very frustrated and hopeless. I felt depressed because there really wasn't a lot of information out there. And every time I asked someone Why did this happen? You know, no one could really explain it. They just kind of said, Well, we know motility issues happen, we just don't always understand why. So it was it was very hard. But since then I have joined several discussion groups and support groups online and met a lot of people and when I read stories, one thing that I do see is that generally people with motility issues have one of two scenarios. They either have always had motility issues that just progressed to the point where now they're severe, or they are like me where several things happened. And it could be different things, not necessarily the same things that happened to me, but several things happened with their health. And somehow those issues are issues that we know can create intestinal inflammation or increased permeability, and that that probably caused the dysmotility.
Eric Rieger 14:25
So with this, basically a physical manifestation is what we're talking about. And it's very mechanical, we have a disc herniation. And then you're saying that it's do your best estimation that ended up leading to the GI issues. And we haven't talked about it yet, but I bet you that you're probably going to talk a little bit about maybe food selections and different things like that was a was a road that you went down to see if you could correct constipation. It's a very natural thing for people to do. Do you feel like that you were able to get anywhere and maybe why you weren't and I'll let you take it from there.
Angie Cook 15:00
Yeah, so the one thing about colonic inertia is that it isn't the same as constipation. A lot of times people have constipation. You can have them maybe increased their fiber in their diet or, you know, people have CBOE they'll they'll try all kinds of different diets. But colonic inertia doesn't really respond to any of that, in fact, if you try to increase your fiber is severely exacerbates the pain and the problems I mean, even to this day, I can't eat as much fiber as I would like, I have to be very careful, even if I'm making a smoothie or juicing something where it's still liquid, but it has a lot of fiber, that's going to mess me up. And that's very common. People with colonic inertia, or gastroparesis, which I also have developed, will will say the same thing.
Ken Brown 15:48
So let me interrupt you right there, because of the path that we were going down when I was doing my research on SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth of bacteria grown where it shouldn't be. And that was a recurring thing between you. And I'm like, why are you not responding to anything? Yeah, this is like, I'm crushing it with my other patients, they think I'm amazing. And you're like, nothing. And that's where we kept going. And so this led to you not giving up me not giving up and then saying, Okay, what else is going on? So when we talk about colonic inertia, you're saying the word over and over, but what do you really mean by that?
Angie Cook 16:31
So again, it's like a very severe form of constipation, it basically means that your colon is paralyzed, it's not moving. So what happens is, when you eat, your food goes to your stomach and your small intestine, so you can digest and absorb it, but when it gets to the colon, it stops moving. So you have this buildup of waste. And if if you can't do something to get that to move, then you're going to end up with an obstruction or something like that. And that's very common with patients like this. They get in very dire situations, I can say, one of the best things that you told me in the very beginning, the best advice I received was to always take what I needed to take to make sure that I was going every day. And I took that advice to heart. And that was sort of my, you know, my guiding principle that I used. And I learned very quickly, what was normal output. And if anything changed, then I knew I needed to change, I needed to stop eating, go on a liquid diet, increase my medications, I needed to do something right away to get that corrected. And unfortunately, I see a lot of patients that you know, and of course, this isn't to their fault, because this is a very, very hard problem to manage. But it is not uncommon for patients to go a week, two weeks, three weeks, a month, and they have not had a bowel movement.
Ken Brown 17:55
We talked about this that my wife loida is she's on sabbatical now for 16 years. But it's she's a rehab doctor. And so they deal with spinal cord injuries, one of the first things that they address when somebody has a spinal cord injury, which essentially is what you're describing you had a spinal cord injury because it herniated into the desk, which is you need to stay and you need to essentially make sure that your patients have bowel movements, because the nerves are not telling you. So colonic inertia is essentially a nerve issue where you're not having the peristalsis.
Angie Cook 18:33
So Exactly. In fact, I actually worked in a rehab when I was in nursing school, and I worked on the spinal cord injury floor. So I helped patients every night with their bowel program. So it's very familiar with that. And patients who do have spinal cord injuries, they have a bowel program where they will have some sort of regimen that they follow. It's usually either every night or every other night, but it's all about doing some kind of intervention to make things move so that that's a regular, you know, just a regular regimen they follow. And basically, I had to do the same thing, I had to go on a lot of different medications, very high doses. And for me, because I work during the day, I made the decision that I came home from work, I took all my medications, and then I was in and out of the bathroom all night long. And sometimes, you know, all evening as well as all night long. I did sleep a lot. And I did that for about seven years. And then unfortunately, when people have colonic inertia, it's so severe that when you fail all the medications, the only option is to remove the colon and that's what ended up happening to me is that even though I was trying very hard to manage it, I got to the point where the medications were not as effective. I was having a lot of side effects. I was having a lot of electrolyte issues with low potassium, which is pretty serious if that continues. And so about a year ago, I ended up I did have my colon removed.
Ken Brown 20:01
So I just want to clarify this for anybody who is dealing with even constipation, just simple constipation, and they don't want to talk to their friends about it, they want to do anything you mentioned a couple things we've, we've packaged a lot right in there. One of those is support groups that you do online forums and things like that. But it shows that how important it is that digestion is not just the absorption of calories, it's also the elimination of waste, which is a necessary process. So when I talk to my patients, it's like look breathing out co2, you know, if you want to think that, that pooping is embarrassing, or whatever, guess what happens when you can't, you can actually die from it. And what what we were dealing with during that period was oh, my gosh, this is crazy. We're throwing everything in the kitchen sink, and your colon is not working. So if anybody's listening to it, and they're maybe blown off by their doctor and such This is it's a very real thing, which is why I was so excited to have you on and tell your story. It's really,
Angie Cook 21:07
it's really hard and you feel very alone, it's not socially acceptable to talk about your bowel habits, it's always considered taboo and you know, too much information kind of thing. And so no one can really understand this unless you've actually been in that desperate situation. So you feel very isolated and alone and affects your quality of life. And every way imaginable. I know that for me, personally, my social life was greatly affected. You know, anytime that I wanted to do anything, like meet a friend for lunch, or, you know, go out to dinner, I actually would plan ahead, I would fast for, you know, two or three meals. So then I could go to a restaurant with someone and actually eat a meal, and then come home and then fast again. So I mean, the impact on your quality of life, you just you can't describe it. It's very isolating.
Eric Rieger 22:00
You find yourself just basically planning life around regular life. It sounds
Angie Cook 22:05
Oh, absolutely.
Eric Rieger 22:06
Yeah, that sounds that sounds not ideal. So not too fast forward. But what I feel like that you've really done an excellent job at summarizing is that the traditional way for you to try to find relief for constipation, which would be increasing fiber making certain that you've had enough fluids and, and the normal things that we would tell most people, if they're having a constipation issue, you just choose better food, essentially, it obviously wasn't working for you. And so we're now going into a situation where you talked about basically it's a it's a paralyzed movement, or lack of movement of a food bolus, especially by the time it enters into the colon. So talk a little bit about that. Once you discovered that your situation wasn't going to have an easy remedy. And it really is more or less going to be affected by a mechanical structure, nerves. It really changes probably the landscape on what you Angie we're going to do for yourself to figure out, okay, the ballgame is different. I'm not just not eating fiber, I'm not just not selecting the best foods, my body essentially is not responding the right way when there is something in the colon. So what did that do for you when you kind of found out or discovered?
Angie Cook 23:29
Well, definitely, when I started realizing that this was my new baseline that, you know, I wasn't going to ever go back to the way things were that at some point, I was going to have to manage this in some way for the rest of my life. And that's when I really started getting interested in gut health and doing research, I became a complete nerd started spending a lot of my free time, you know, reading journal articles and trying to learn to educate myself, I had heard that, you know, all gut, all health begins in the gut. And I wanted to understand more, what did that mean, specifically, and I knew that this was something I was going to have to manage. So I knew there wasn't a lot of great answers. And I just figured that there was it, it just figured that I needed to understand it as much as I could myself to help myself because nobody else had that much motivation. So it really kind of made me turn into this nerd. And then of course, I got interested in nutrition and that's why I went to get my masters. But it was all because I knew that this was going to be my baseline that I had to learn somehow to live with it.
Eric Rieger 24:30
Okay. And then knowing that you had to find this new place to live in what what did you find that the deficits were now you know, it's not fiber lack and and and you've prepared yourself on how do I support myself and others like me with nutrition? kind of walk us through what you began to discover on like, what the issue actually was, where it wasn't, it wasn't just a lack of focus. I'm sorry.
Ken Brown 24:55
Well, yeah, let me just clarify this because you mentioned something in passing. You had your colon taken out. Hello, yeah. Since we had my colectomy so I mean, that's pretty big. I would like to like read probably on the podcast now because then you were cured, right?
Angie Cook 25:07
No, no.
Ken Brown 25:08
Uh oh
Angie Cook 25:09
yeah. So um, you know even that that was my first symptom somewhere along the way. I did start developing other problems. I don't have all the problems that you listed at the beginning of the podcast. Yeah,
Eric Rieger 25:21
may have misspoken in there. But yeah, that's our shot of time together. But
Ken Brown 25:24
But your because of your research, what I really want is anybody who has CBOE or pots, or Ehlers danlos, Ehlers danlos, or mast cell activation syndrome or malls. And if you're like, I don't know what any of those are. Don't worry, if you don't know, consider yourself lucky. Because if you do know, you know, you're suffering. And so we're gonna eventually get to the science of where everything you did, I believe has found this puzzle piece to get there. But I just want everyone to know that you had the surgery, but you weren't completely fixed.
Angie Cook 25:59
Yeah, no, I'm not. So at some point, during the years, I did start developing symptoms of gastroparesis, which is basically the same thing that I was describing with the colon, but it's with the stomach. So your stomach becomes kind of paralyzed, where anytime you eat food, or you drink anything, it just stays in your stomach for much longer than it needs to. And it doesn't move and it causes a lot of pain, it can cause nausea, it can cause vomiting. So I developed that and actually for the last several years, the problem with that is, it's aggravated by position, so it has prevented me from eating later in the day. I usually try to eat everything I'm going to eat by the middle of the afternoon. If I eat like a dinner, then I'm taking a chance that when I go to bed at night, I may wake up no 234 hours later in pain or even vomiting. So like the last several years, I've actually kept a bowl next to the bed, because I'll wake up and I'll already be starting to vomit. So I develop gastroparesis. I also developed several symptoms of dysautonomia, which have come and gone throughout the years. It's not something I deal with every day, but I'll have flare ups where I'll have a lot of symptoms and then and a little while, kind of get better and then it'll kind of come back again. So I have dealt with quite a bit of that. And when I had my colon, I sort of just lumped it all together that Okay, my colon doesn't work. So I know I have all these other problems but it's all just kind of related. And then when I had my colon out, obviously that part got better because now I don't have a colon. I don't have to take as much medication I'm not you know, having to do the things that I did before. But I still have the gastroparesis. I still have some overall slow motility in my stomach and my small bowel and I've had issues with dysautonomia off and on this year, I've learned more about dysautonomia and really recognize that there are some symptoms I've had that I never recognized before
Ken Brown 28:03
can you define dysautonomia,
Angie Cook 28:04
dysautonomia basically, your autonomic nervous system does everything in your body that you don't have to think about. So it controls like breathing heart rate, your digestion actually, gastroparesis is considered a symptom of dysautonomia. But when you have that, one of the things that can happen is I've had pots type symptoms. So the definition of pots is basically postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, which all that really means is that when you stand up, your heart rate goes way high. But it's really more complicated than that what happens. And what it's like for me is I can be sitting here where I'm at right now working doing my job, and I have a little Pulse ox, I'll check my my heart rate, it'll be in the 60s. And when I'm having a flare up, I can get up and I can walk to another room in my house, get a drink of water, come back. And I will have felt like I had just ran a marathon. When I checked my heart right now it's gone from 60 to like 131-140. And you just feel like you're swimming underwater, and it'll stay high for maybe 30-45 minutes. Another symptom is heat intolerance, which I've also had for several years, but at several episodes this year, where it's not just been that I'm uncomfortable when it's hot, but my temperature actually will raise it'll go higher several degrees and then I can't, my body can't cool itself off. So another problem that goes along with that is people with dysautonomia will lose the ability to sweat. So when I realized that I'm thinking back, I don't remember the last time I sweat. So that kind of goes with the heat intolerance. When you get hot, your body can't cool itself off and you know my face look at Red and my temperature will go up, but my body can't cool itself back down to normal temperature and things like dry eyes. Dry mouth, dry skin, I have all of those almost every day. And those are all because the autonomic nervous system controls all your glands and the way that it functions. And when you have decided Nami, you can have problems with that.
Ken Brown 30:14
Is there any people with dysautonomia that have worse symptoms that are life threatening?
Angie Cook 30:20
Oh, absolutely, you can progress, it can be very severe because you can't regulate your heart rate, or your breathing. So there are people who have it much worse than I do. The other part of Potts is that there are people who struggle with dehydration on a daily basis and require IV hydration every single day. Along with that, you can also have symptoms just taking a shower can be overwhelming to your system and take a long time to recover from. So yes, it can progress to where it's life threatening.
Eric Rieger 30:53
So just by description, and a little bit more technical, the symptoms that that he is describing that you're describing Angie is just it, it allows me to think of on the autonomic nervous system, we're really talking about one side that's really becoming deficient, there would be the parasympathetic side. Yeah, the autonomic nervous system. So of course, we got fight or flight, and we have rest and digest, we really depend so much on rest and digest really, more for better function throughout the rest of the day, when that is not being I guess, in tuned, if you will, for the better part of the day, we can suffer like this, and our glands don't work. And we don't, we don't sweat when necessary. And our heart rate does raise so yeah, it. Unfortunately, it does seem like it all comes back to one side. And from all the notes that you sent over, it seems like that's what you spent a lot of time drawing the parallels and tying it back to, to one specific source, do you want to kind of go down that road?
Angie Cook 32:02
Sure. So, um, like I said, I had my colon removed about a year ago, and then when that when I had that done, and then I started realizing I still had problems, that's when I started thinking, Okay, these problems are continuing, I need to start figuring them out. So I started researching different areas. And I'm going to kind of say, it's almost like an onion. So like, when you start peeling back one layer, then there's another layer, and it just kind of keeps going. But um, the first thing I started looking at was small intestine dysmotility. And I actually found several studies, where the researchers use the model of a post operative alias, to study what small intestine dysmotility is all about. So when you have surgeries, particularly an abdominal surgery, the intestines are manipulated. And if you're having intestine surgery, then of course, they're cut, and your body perceives all of that as an injury, and it creates inflammation. So what I learned was that in all these different studies, I looked at that inflammation always causes pro inflammatory cytokines to be released, which you want your body to do that whenever there's inflammation. But specifically, what I found is that, even though there was a number of different cytokines that were released, that were creating inflammation, that all of them seem to down regulate acetylcholine, which when you're talking about the parasympathetic nervous system, that of course is controlled by the vagus nerve. And you need acetylcholine for the parasympathetic nervous system to function. And so as a result of all those cytokines down regulating acetylcholine, then the person developed an alias, which is basically your small intestine is going to freeze up, it's not going to move and you have dysmotility. But then in all the studies I read, what I found is that the researchers were looking for a way to reverse that. And so they were using different medications. And all of the medications they used, reversed the alias. And even though I found like three or four different studies, and the medications were all different, the common thread was that all of the medications had a mechanism of action that actually increased acetylcholine. So that kind of was an aha moment for me because I realized there's a connection between inflammation driving these pro inflammatory cytokines, which can cause dysmotility and down regulate acetylcholine. But if you can replace this, either citicoline or you can somehow increase that, then your motility can be restored.
Ken Brown 34:42
So this is where I, I feel like I may have failed you eight years ago when your inflammation started. If we describe it as a nerve thing from your neck, and you change the motility of your intestines, then it is quite possible that Let's say a bacterial overgrowth acebo creates low level inflammation. And so your cells that protect us go, That's not right, they start sending out what you're calling inflammatory cytokines, which just mean your immune system has a very complex process where it says, we need to recruit more cells, we need to do this and they start sending out these different cytokines like TNF alpha, which, that's tumor necrosis factor, which is good if you're fighting a virus or a bacteria or you're doing things, but it actually, you found some great studies on how some of these cytokines have a direct effect on acetylcholine. Can you get into that?
Angie Cook 35:52
Yeah, so um, well, first, let me explain another part of this that I found that's really interesting and that adds really some important information is that when I was looking at gastroparesis, I found a couple of different studies that were describing how gastroparesis and let me back up for a moment. So gastroparesis is basically when your stomach is not functioning, and it's a nerve problem, but most doctors identify gastroparesis as being a complication of diabetes, because in diabetes, what happens is that you can have nerve damage and so a lot of people who have diabetes and have nerve damage will develop gastroparesis, and it's actually a barrier or a problem that a lot of gastroenterologist don't realize that you can have gastroparesis and not be diabetic because I'm not diabetic, but I have, I have it. So, what I found is that in people who have idiopathic gastroparesis, like mine, where, you know, I don't really know why I developed it, that and those people who also seem to also have dissident naamyaa, because gastroparesis is considered a symptom of dysautonomia. So it's really highly likely you're going to have other symptoms as well, that in those people, what they were finding is that they could trace it back to where those people had had either some type of virus, like epstein barr virus, Lyme CMV, or maybe they had gastroenteritis, and we don't really know what caused that that could be. Usually it's viral, but it could be bacteria, too, that they had some sort of illness that preceded the development of the gastroparesis and the dysautonomia, and that when they ended up treating them, they would treat them with different kinds of medications to help reverse that immune process, things like ibig. And I think one study I saw it was a very, very small study, I will admit, they used intera gam, which is a medical food but it's I GG, but when they did something that helped the immune system recover, then that actually improved gastroparesis and dysautonomia. So that was kind of another aha moment that, okay, so when you have these things develop, it could be that there's some sort of pathogen that actually started this inflammation, that the inflammation is just continuing. So it's driving the symptoms, and until you're able to control the inflammation and deal with it, then you're going to continue to have problems. But if you can deal with it, then you might resolve the symptoms.
Ken Brown 38:25
This is well, this is so interesting, because we talk about all these people that certainly seek out functional functional medicine doctors, because they get so frustrated, it's the chronic Lyme person. And the reality is the chronic Lyme person has the fatigue, they've got the gut issues, and they get told, you know, no, you don't have the Lyme titers, you're not there. But what we're saying is that a virus can start the inflammatory cascade and doesn't quite get turned off. And now we've got an inflammatory cascade and an acetylcholine imbalance that came with this,
Angie Cook 38:57
right. And actually, so the next part was I started looking a little bit more specifically into the macrophage. So there's a lot of research right now about how the macrophage can drive a lot of intestinal inflammation and other problems in the intestine. So what I learned is that the macrophage actually comes from a type of white blood cell called the monocyte. And what happens is that when that monocyte enters the tissue or the Oregon and there's some kind of pathogen, it then becomes the macrophage. And it's a cell that its job is to try to help you attack or defend yourself against some sort of pathogen or inflammation or whatever might be going on. So what I found out is that one of the main cytokines that the macrophage releases is that TNF alpha, which can cause inflammation anywhere in the body, but specifically an intestine. It's a really big problem. So Dr. Brown, I know you treat a lot of patients with IBD and That's sort of like the model of the most extreme severe type of inflammation you can find in the intestine. And one of the types of medications they use for patients like that are TNF alpha inhibitors. So they're specifically targeting TNF alpha to try to lower that cytokine, because that's what's driving the inflammation. So then when I started reading about this, I also read some articles that were telling me that TNF alpha specifically can cause to sudden naamyaa. So I thought that was really interesting. And then when I started getting further into it, what I found was that TNF alpha and acetylcholine have sort of this really interesting relationship where they oppose each other. So TNF alpha will lower acetylcholine, but then acetylcholine also lowers TNF alpha. So I was a little confused, because it's sort of like what came first the chicken or the egg? And if one is opposing the other, then why do we have a problem. But what I was learning is that when you have too much TNF alpha, then it actually down regulates to see the coaling enough to where you don't really have acetylcholine, and then that, in turn, allows the TNF alpha to to remain and persist and continue to cause all these issues. And the really interesting part of this, it's kind of getting a little bit more into the geeky science, is that when I started studying how this works with the vagus nerve, so we talked about the vagus nerve, and one of the most important functions is that it helps regulate the autonomic nervous system.
Eric Rieger 41:31
I just want to say something really quick. Because we've mentioned the vagus nerve. But I think, just to clarify that Vegus nerve is the biggest nerve it's going to be releasing as you're pulling, correct. Okay, I just wanted to clarify.
Angie Cook 41:45
Well, it's the biggest, longest nerve in the body. And it is it does need to citicoline. Correct.
Ken Brown 41:52
Okay. So just just to clarify that vagus nerve 10th, cranial nerve comes out, and actually innervates it's the grand highway. So innervates all the organs when your vagal nerve doesn't have its nutrients. So it responds to acetylcholine. Am I correct? In that words, need to see to Coleen to conduct itself. So,
Angie Cook 42:13
right, right. So it's the the nerve that connects that whole gut brain pathway, no.
Ken Brown 42:25
Brain all day long.
Angie Cook 42:28
So what's interesting about the Okay, so what's interesting about the vagus nerve is that not only does it help to regulate the autonomic nervous system, but it also has a huge anti inflammatory component. So there's something called the colon nergic, anti inflammatory pathway. So started, yeah, so I started reading studies about this. And basically, what the research is explaining is that in the model of sepsis, which is when your whole body is fighting an inflammation and infection, that typically the spleen is the one where the macrophages in the spleen are releasing all these cytokines. And that if you were able to stimulate the vagus nerve, that, that acetylcholine will help lower that inflammation. So like they've done some studies with sepsis, where they've tried to treat it with Vegus nerve stimulation, and it's helped to control the inflammation, reverse the sepsis and, and, and help the patient get better. In fact, there's actually studies right now on COVID that they're doing that is along the same lines. So then we also I found out that it's not just the spleen and the vagus nerve that have this colon ergic anti inflammatory pathway, but you can have it between the intestines and the vagus nerve as well. So this part is where it gets a little geeky, I'm gonna try to explain it, I'm gonna do my best. But basically, the macrophage releases the TNF alpha, which, of course is going to can be communicated to the vagus nerve through that gut brain connection.
Ken Brown 44:08
Let me just clarify one thing, the macrophage the way that it works, is it is it phagocytosis. In other words, it's it eats and goes, Oh, my gosh, we have an invader. And so it just goes help help help. And it sends out this signal, which is TNF alpha. Right? Oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh, help, help help. I'm holding this guy. We've got a burglar, we need help. And that's the start of it. Okay.
Angie Cook 44:34
Right. So this is where it gets a little geeky. And I'm going to admit, I'm not a Vegas nerve expert. But there's something called the preganglionic pathway. And that's basically when you have that signal coming from the gut to the vagus nerve, and that's when you can have that TNF alpha being communicated to the vagus nerve. But then you have the vagus nerve that is going to try to send a signal to say, Hey, we want to release acetylcholine and as you It turns out the macrophage specifically has a receptor and it has a really long name. It's the alpha seven nicotinic ganglionic receptor or acetylcholine receptor, something like that. It's very long name. But basically what it is, is that it has a receptor that specifically is sensitive to see the cooling. So if I see the calling is released, and if it is, so that postganglionic nerve is going to be really close to the Oregon and really close to the macrophage, if it's going to release acetylcholine and it lands on that receptor, then it's going to tell that macrophage, Okay, stop with the TNF alpha. Everything's okay, lower the inflammation be okay now.
Ken Brown 45:40
So a negative feedback loop where the vagus nerve tells the macrophage chill out, we got this handled is basically what it's saying, right through this anti inflammatory acetylcholine receptor likes inhibitor thing or whatever, right?
Angie Cook 45:59
So what's really interesting, though, that is, if you don't, if you have too much TNF alpha, then you don't have enough acetylcholine to oppose that. So then you can continue having all this inflammation
Ken Brown 46:13
for chronic inflammation begets more inflammation, yeah.
Angie Cook 46:16
Right. So if you have too much TNF alpha, then then all of a sudden, there's not enough acetylcholine to fight that. And then that's where the inflammation can persist.
Eric Rieger 46:29
So then, you're good.
Angie Cook 46:31
So then the goal is that you want to somehow help the vagus nerve or help help support acetylcholine in order to where it will help decrease that inflammation, and then it restores that parasympathetic function. So like, for example, this was a big aha moment for me. So TNF alpha is a direct inhibitor of intestinal motility. So, if you have too much TNF alpha, you're basically lowering acetylcholine. But if you take pro kinetics, which most pro kinetics, the mechanism of action is going to do something to increase acetylcholine, then that helps restore the motility. So that was kind of an aha moment for me because if you think about CBOE experts, they're always preaching will even after you clear the CBOE, you need to stay on a pro kinetic. And now to me that I understand why that makes sense.
Ken Brown 47:27
How does that affect the migrating motor complex?
Angie Cook 47:31
Okay, that's something completely different
Ken Brown 47:37
talk to us about the meaning of life and what you get us
Angie Cook 47:45
all about motilin and all of that, but there is something called Tributyrin. That will help that. And as a matter of fact, before I forget, I want to give a shout out to a friend of mine in a discussion group. Her name is Rachel. And she and I have been going back and forth on a lot of this issue. So she's been helping me and find ideas of what to research. Well, thank
Eric Rieger 48:05
you, Rachel.
Ken Brown 48:06
Yeah, right on Rachel.
Eric Rieger 48:07
That's actually really awesome. Well, that is I mean, it. I'm just impressed that honestly, that you've pieced together so much about the dependence that we have specifically on this Vegas nerve. The acetylcholine that essentially there are lots of yin and yang opportunities. Biologically, we talked recently about oxytocin and vasopressin. I mean, there's lots of different opportunities there where biologically, we have things that go back and forth. So
Ken Brown 48:41
yeah, this is what's interesting. Clearly the body has its checks and balances everywhere. And the common theme that I'm hearing is that when you have too much chronic inflammation, acute inflammation, we've got these things built up to protect us from acute invader. What happens is when we end up in this chronic inflammatory state, then things get out of whack. And what you're describing is this Eliot model from Well, in my world from CBOE to dysautonomia through acetylcholine in the vagus nerve, am I right overgeneralizing that?
Angie Cook 49:18
No. And so there's one other part that I'll just throw in there, if you'll be okay with that,
Eric Rieger 49:23
go for it like that.
Angie Cook 49:24
So,
Ken Brown 49:26
I mean, you're joined as a vampire, I love it.
Angie Cook 49:31
Okay, so another thing that I learned this year that I had never heard of, um, well, let me back up. So I had heard I had heard a few years ago, that there are some doctors that are now recognizing that when you have dysmotility, that this is an autoimmune issue. Like you can have autoimmune gi dysmotility. And personally, I never really thought about it or wanted genders and not that I didn't want to understand it, but didn't try to understand it, because I didn't really see that that was going to apply to me I kind of figured I knew why develop dysmotility. But I learned about a condition this year and it's called autoimmune. autonomic ganglia. Obviously, I'm going to have to refer to my notes. But it's that's a really big word. And it's a big mouthful. And it actually you can just abbreviate it by ag. But it's an autoimmune condition. And what was really interesting to me is that it can actually be, it can actually happen after an event it can happen after a virus after an illness after surgery. It's not something that you necessarily have to have your whole life it actually can develop it can be acquired, and typically there so I'm going to just read you the list of symptoms. The symptoms include dysautonomia, as well as extra autonomic or outside of the autonomic nervous system manifestations. It can include diffuse gi dysmotility, which includes both gastroparesis and colonic inertia, orthostatic, hypotension, pots, dry mouth, dry eyes, dry skin, urinary retention, or some type of difficulty voiding, difficulty regulating your temperature. And you can also have CNS symptoms, which are those of like the brain symptoms like things like anxiety, depression, cognitive difficulties, which we call brain fog, sometimes. And it's also usually can co exist with other autoimmune conditions, including fibromyalgia, and hashimotos, which is a thyroid. So I thought that was really interesting, because I hit on a lot of those. And so they're actually antibodies that you can test for, it's a blood test, and it's was initially developed by the Mayo Clinic, but you can now get it through other labs, and they will test for the antibodies. But the interesting part is that only about 50% of the people who they consider to have this will actually test positive for the antibodies. So when they when you have this condition, the way they treat it, is things like ibig, steroids, there are some immunosuppressants they do plasma exchange, it's kind of some pretty heavy duty stuff. But it's all to target the immune system. And the reason the antibodies matter is because even if you don't test positive, if you're considered sero, negative and you don't have the antibodies, you can still they show that you can still have improvement if you do the same treatment.
Eric Rieger 52:31
So just because it's done to take doesn't mean they may not have that problem.
Angie Cook 52:34
Correct. So what's really interesting, and this is something that my friend Rachel had taught me about is that her theory is that maybe because she's, she's aware that there have been cases where people will test positive for the antibodies, and then later they'll test negative. And so it's very inconsistent. And so her theory is maybe the antibodies are detected only when you're at your worst, or when you're having some sort of like, major flare up. I don't know, we're just speculating, we're just wondering,
Ken Brown 53:07
that's a super interesting theory. But yeah, let's liken that to celiac gliadin, my seal TTG antibodies, when you're eating a lot, your antibodies go out, when you back off, your antibodies go way down. So if you're having a lot of ganglionic acetylcholine receptor antibodies, which are detected in the blood, for whatever reason, due to inflammation due to the trigger, I mean, what were this onion that I think you're starting to peel back, Angie, and you're doing an amazing job explaining this is, this is so high level, that as we're peeling this back, we may end up getting to record where there could be a trigger that we could avoid. So that this doesn't have that,
Angie Cook 53:50
thank you for mentioning that because I forgot to mention that the antibody that they're testing for is an antibody to the acetylcholine receptor, the ganglionic acetylcholine receptor coming
Ken Brown 53:59
back to your original thought that it all comes down to a super colon effect in the vagus nerve, the inner balance between TNF alpha and acetylcholine, and now we're talking about people developing antibodies to prevent the acetylcholine that's floating around to even attaching to that receptor.
Angie Cook 54:17
Right. And it actually made sense to me, because when you go back, so when I was reading about aiag, so you know, basically, you've got somebody with gi dysmotility, and obviously saw the dysautonamia and and all the other things that we know sometimes go along with it, and they're treating it by things like ibig, or plasma or, you know, some sort of immunosuppressants. It kind of went along and was consistent with the studies I found on gastroparesis, where they're saying that this is triggered after a viral or possibly bacterial illness, and that it triggers the gastroparesis and the dysautonomia, but the way they treated that was also with IBIG, and things like interrogate anything that was going to help reverse that immune response. So like, if you're getting to where you're actually thinking, Okay, this sounds like something I could have, then to me, there's two ways to think about it. You can actually support this either coaling by doing some things like pro kinetics, and there's certain supplements, but thought,
Ken Brown 55:17
after the restroom really quick, we're going to talk about treatment, you guys are gonna recap that aspect and make it palatable. And I'll just be,
Eric Rieger 55:24
we're gonna recap this aspect to make it palatable. So,
Angie Cook 55:29
okay,
Eric Rieger 55:30
how do we what kind of salt and sugar do we put on this thing to make this more palatable that he he leaves and laughs at me as he or no,
Angie Cook 55:39
right?
Eric Rieger 55:44
No, no joke, though. Angie is, as Kim was pointing out this amount of research and really pacing and building, he says, peeling the onion back, but we had to put this onion together. I mean, there's linking all these things together, as is I find very, very interesting. And actually quite, I don't know, built on common sense the Vegas nerve is, is I think Vagus is vag us and is Latin for wandering, is not such a big as it basically means it's everywhere. Our parasympathetic nervous system is essentially run by that 10th cranial nerve to basically keep everything in check for us. So you piecing this together, and finding all of the common pathways back to how it relates to your situation. And yeah, it is a gut paralysis issue. But it seems like that we've simply just lost the the autonomic function of one very delicate, yet incredibly important nerve, which services, everything throughout the body. And you've been able to not show us that. Yeah, these are symptoms of something that's failed. But this is what's happening. And this is how we can actually overcome it. Because no one's ever talked about, how do we build back kind of this wall that's fallen down lots of times, I think people just are just kind of shoved to the side because you don't always have somebody in your corner to help out and work through that problem with you there.
Angie Cook 57:20
Right? Exactly.
Eric Rieger 57:22
So,
Ken Brown 57:23
so palatable, was the wrong word. Did you guys choose salt? Lawrys? would you do it?
Eric Rieger 57:27
It tasted great. While you're gone? The conversation?
Ken Brown 57:30
I can't talk about parasympathetic this long without my bladder going on parasympathetic. Okay, so the really cool part is you put a lot of thought into potentially helping this process, what are your thoughts on this and you're not being held to it because this is all in, there's not enough research out there, which is probably something that we got to figure out as a team, what to do. So what are some different things that you have found to try and help increase the acetylcholine?
Angie Cook 58:02
So I think first of all, pro kinetics, and I know there's a lot of functional practitioners that want to hear about what kinds of things to try but all of the prescription pro kinetics actually work by increasing acetylcholine with the exception, I think of a rethrow myosin, which is the MMC. But I think that's important because that'll help promote the motility and now that I understand kind of why acetylcholine is important for motility, and then how it can be impacted by things like inflammation, then that makes me understand even more that those pro kinetics are important. I actually also found a supplement this year called huperzine. So I've been taking that and that's an a colon esterase inhibitor. So it basically prevents the enzyme that's going to break down acetylcholine, which also helps the port having those levels something like vitamin B five, I think that supports I think some of there's some other ones be one also might I think they're in the pathway of synthesis seratonin I actually read or actually five HTP rather,
Eric Rieger 59:15
which that's the building block to build serotonin right? is five ht I'm sorry, that's the building block that our bodies use or can use to to build more serotonin correct. I kind of like a precursor, right.
Angie Cook 59:28
So I'm losing my notes, but I do remember so serotonin, our five HTP helps to build serotonin. And then so your five ht four receptors, we haven't talked about that, but five ht four receptors are in the gut, and that's the target for the pro kinetics. But five HTP will also target the those receptors and those receptors once they're activated. That helps promote us. See the colon as well. So it's a long winded way to say that five HTP can help. Um, but the other thing that's really interesting is that's all to try to help promote acetylcholine. But maybe there needs to be some more work on getting that inflammation down to begin with. So maybe, you know, I don't know something like entera gam, or there's some over the counter versions that I think are similar, SPI and things like that. Maybe we talk
Ken Brown 1:00:32
a little bit greater on that. So there's what you're talking about is taking in colostrum, IGA, G, things like that, that we might experience using some of those things in gut health has not been very successful in the sense that I think it's you need to hit it from a multi angle approach and decrease in the inflammatory aspect. Your situation is a little bit different in that you, I think you had a neurologic event which led to this whole cascade, but we have so many people that eat a very pro inflammatory diet. And if you're listening to this and you're waiting in line in a fast food restaurant and a drive thru or something, please understand that when you have that high fructose corn syrup, or you have those poly unsaturated fatty acids, like corn oil and soybean oil, right, that is a pro inflammatory thing that could potentially lead to some intestinal inflammation, which then leads to a macrophage getting turned on, which then leads to TNF alpha being spread around which then leads to acetylcholine dropping and Oh wow, Angie just figured out how intestinal inflammation can lead to pots dysautonomia, which is something I treat so many patients with this, and I share patients with a well known doctor here in town, Dr. Suman who treats pots we share these patients. I'm like, why am I sharing patience? With this cardiologist? I think you just figured it out. I think you did an incredible job of walking from A to k. And I think we can go from cadence. Yeah.
Angie Cook 1:02:10
But it has been very eye opening.
Ken Brown 1:02:13
It's incredible
Eric Rieger 1:02:15
what a bit it just simply makes sense. We've been talking and he you've helped us with with the research on some of the other shows we've pieced together, but high fructose corn syrup, soybean oil, Saffron, safflower, safflower oil, all of those different ingredients. Unfortunately, they get subsidized, which means that they are in everything we see, we've seen these numbers of people who have dealt with just various gi issues. And unfortunately for Angie, hers is definitely one of the more extreme circumstances but it just comes down to where is all of this new information coming from Why is the American Western diets such a culprit. And it's not just because people just want to eat these substances inherently, could just be bad and perpetuating this inflammation that you're trying to run from. And if you can't recognize, just like you said, Angie, we need to find out what's causing the inflammation, because we can keep trying to patch it up. But if the flood keeps coming in, it's going to
Angie Cook 1:03:19
be looking at TNF alpha one thing. I'm not an expert, but I know that there's a lot of research about toxins in our environment, and how they can impact you. So like just something simple, like BPA, I found an article that says that can increase TNF alpha. Yeah, so you know, I mean, I'm guilty of it. I drink water bottles all day long. But you know, maybe that's something I should rethink, I don't know.
Ken Brown 1:03:43
Well, this is gonna be a moving target. And there's a couple things I want to make sure that we get out there. First of all, thank you so much for coming on the show and talking about this. I believe that this is just a high level introduction to a lot of things that I'm trying to wrap my brain around and I can only imagine that it's it's a lot of information for people to try and grasp what's going on. But for those people who are struggling, this is a huge, huge opportunity to at least start heading down a different path. Which means and that path I'm talking about is many of my own colleagues gastroenterologist. I get second opinions all the time where they go to a doctor and they say, I don't believe in CBOE, here's an antidepressant. Now, we're going to go one step further. We're going to go I believe that if we don't fix your CBOE, your intestinal inflammation, your diet, then you can end up in this situation and right now, I've got so many people with pots and malls and you know, and we didn't even touch on the Ehlers danlos epi genetic phenomenon, all that that is next podcast, so you have a week. To learn.
Angie Cook 1:04:57
Add I will just quickly add a no master list. Something that is also really common with all of these symptoms. So I didn't really have an opportunity to I haven't gone deep into that. But it was interesting to me what I did learn is that so typically when you think of mast cell, you think the mast cells releasing histamine. mast cells actually also released a high amount of TNF alpha. And then the macrophage, you know, we're talking about how it releases TNF alpha, it actually also releases a high amount of histamine, histamine. So it kind of is like adding fuel to the fire. I mean, it's all it's not just one cell and once one inflammatory cytokine. It's kind of like that whole generalized and immune response.
Ken Brown 1:05:40
So I want to encourage anybody who's listening to this, that even if it didn't quite fall into your wheelhouse about what you have, but if you have know anybody who has bloating or digestive issues, or autoimmune issues, or anything related to pots, dysautonomia, or CBOE, share it with them, because this is a community that Angie, you're involved in multiple support groups, and you're crushing it right now. And I feel like your life struggles are going to make a difference in hundreds of thousands of lives. And I appreciate you not giving up I appreciate you saying, I'm going to learn more about this, even though I got a bucket next to me for the last seven years that I vomit in, when I don't time things right. Because these nerves don't work. I think that's number one very brave of you really cool. And then you've become you kept saying, I'm not an expert, you sound like a dang expert to me,
Eric Rieger 1:06:41
I would definitely defer to you. I can't thank you enough. Thank you for coming on. It's just so much information. But it's it's all so relative can be used immediately by by many and something else that crossed my mind. Whenever you were talking about what do you do to avoid inflammation we, for decades ago, we talked about the dangers of smoking, right? We talked about you shouldn't smoke, you should inhale because it's going to cause these elasticity issues with lungs and people could you know, one to one, everyone can admit that smoking is bad. Well, not understanding the dangers of the things that are coming into our food and causing the tops of long term inflammation. That's that's the new problems of like smoking, because now what he is doing is showing us that you have to get the triggers that are causing your chronic inflammation under control. Or just like you said, Can someone who has IBS or CBOE if you don't address it, and we don't find out what it is while we're trying to get your acetylcholine back into balance. And you continue to have these these inflammatory episodes, you may find yourself with a much much more severe situation.
Ken Brown 1:07:56
Yeah, I guess that's the thing I want everybody to take away here is that just because a doctor pat's, you on the head and says, you'll be fine, we're now showing that if you leave the chronic inflammation going, now, not only does it lead to possibly the typical things that we talked about chronic inflammation, which is cancer and autoimmune diseases, but this kind of stuff, which is life altering, debilitating, shut you down, make you depressed, make you isolated, and it takes quite honestly, Hero like you to just step out of that and go now I'm going to talk about it. Definitely, we're gonna throw it out there.
Eric Rieger 1:08:35
So thank you very much, Angie,
Angie Cook 1:08:37
thank you all for taking the time to dedicate to talk about this. This is I feel like I'm very passionate about motility disorders. And one of the reasons I am is because when you talk about digestive health, there's a lot of attention about IBS or IBD. But not very many people talk about motility disorders, they don't really know what it is. And when you're a patient, it's very isolating. And so I love anytime that we can do anything to promote awareness.
Ken Brown 1:09:02
So your notes for the podcast, breathable publication, yeah, they were just saying, I think that we're gonna have some people if you want Angie to publish this so that you can digest it, journal and make it formal. So you can walk into your doctor's office and slap it down and be like, Look, that's me.
Angie Cook 1:09:23
Like months of research, just doing it and then coming back and then doing it again. And then kind of revisiting it all it takes a long time.
Ken Brown 1:09:32
Isn't that interesting? Because the articles that you send me will look at stuff and I'll look at 50 pages of references and you're like this person put their life into it, right? And that's what it takes when somebody gets passionate enough like this, that you just go No, I'm going to put this out there and the first step is just talking about it a little bit superficially like this. We didn't even nearly get into the detail that you have in here which is awesome, just like this podcast. There's like five podcasts here. Yeah. And so hopefully a, you know, I'm gonna hopefully, Chris kresser will listen to this and he'll have you on and then you can go into more detail with him. His audience is a little bit different. And then you just keep working your way. And then next thing we know, we see Angie on Good Morning America the session,
Eric Rieger 1:10:18
we can watch. Well, it may, who knows? Because I mean, I think that there's a lot of people who could just simply be helped by this. And not only that, I think there's a lot of researchers who will probably see this and say, that's the connection that we need to make. And ultimately, this whole show isn't just about learning and sharing experiences, it's about helping people. And that's,
Ken Brown 1:10:36
I mean, we start Yeah, we start moving away from Oh, um, let's use osmotic laxatives to Oh, let me check to see if you have a G. If you do now, I know that we need to increase your acetylcholine. And if we do that, we need to at first make sure that you do not have a chronic inflammatory state, and do not have increased levels of TNF alpha. Right, then once we do that, then I can start giving you some pro motility agents and things like that, because we're going to try and correct the background buzz, the background noise that's going on. And as somebody who I'm into this, and I didn't know any of this. So I know my colleagues don't, there's probably a few people at the Mayo that work in the motility clinic. And, you know, some people at Northwestern and a few people that that I've, I've read some stuff, but they're going into this kind of thing, like now, I think you you have a moral obligation to put this out there, so that other researchers can then run with it and say, didn't see it from that angle. Everybody gets so myopic in medicine, I mean, they just sit there and just you're like, this is what I'm looking at. And you forget that it's more than just the thing they're looking at. And I'm guilty of that. 100%. Having doubt in yourself and being open to other ideas and angles is the key to medicine. It's the key to growth, human growth, not just in medicine, but in love and relationships and everything.
Eric Rieger 1:12:04
Submit your questions to Dr. Kenneth brown about love and life.
Ken Brown 1:12:09
And I will forward them immediately to Angie cook.
Eric Rieger 1:12:15
Angie Thank you so much. I think that's gonna do it for episode number 45. And this is definitely not our only show with you because I have a feeling won't be that much longer until we're going to build out another podcast and it's just another just great angle of some Yeah, I'm
Ken Brown 1:12:31
gonna hoping that once we start sharing this with some of our audiences that they'll come up and go, Okay, yeah, let's talk about Okay, so now I'm like that. Now do a whole show on how to fix the problem.
Eric Rieger 1:12:43
Definitely.
Ken Brown 1:12:44
So but I think that you telling your story is very, very genuine. It validates where you come from, it gives hope to other people. And I want to thank you for being so candid about it.
Angie Cook 1:12:57
Thank you for having me.
Eric Rieger 1:12:58
You bet. Thanks, Angie. All right, what episode was 45? Please Like and Share gut check project fans. We appreciate you joining us today. Special thanks to Angie cook, registered nurse and Master's in nutrition for joining us today and sharing her or just incredible journey, her story and most of all, her research and her willingness to to look out for others.
Ken Brown 1:13:25
So absolutely. So please email us and tell us to make sure that Angie, publishes this.
Eric Rieger 1:13:34
See you next time.
Ken Brown 1:13:36
Bye everybody
Angie Cook 1:13:37
Bye
0:00
Hello KBMD health family and gut check project fans welcome to episode number 44. This episode's very special because we have is many of y'all know with my co host here, Dr. Kenneth Brown, he's only selected three products to be a part of his own store Atrantil, and CBD Of course, which has his own KB MD CBD label on it. But today, we're actually only going to talk about one. And that re ally was shot through seeing. So see that but this is
0:32
Broc Elite today.
0:33
It's all about Broc Elite. These are stable sulforaphanes. And we are joined with David Phd. No, David Roberts, John Gildea, saying that's why that's why I have a co host. That's why he has me one of the to David Roberts and John Gildea, john, good day being the PhD for Broc Elite. And Welcome, gentlemen, thank you all so much for meeting us this afternoon.
0:56
That's your tip.
0:57
It's good to be here. Thanks for having us.
0:59
So john, is if you're looking at the YouTube is the first voice that you heard in the purple shirt. And then David is the one in the buttoned up. So hello, there's David. So, Dr. Brown, you want to take us into the fourth year of introducing these two?
1:13
Absolutely. So all the only reason why I have three products on my website is because it's three products backed by science we do certificate of analysis and all these things we were introduced to Brock Elite through baby bathwater networks. And we had our first zoom call many months ago where I have been so excited about sulforaphanes as a supplement and finding out that these two brilliant men figured out how to actually make what I tell my patients is the world's first stable sulforaphane developed in science and been able to show clinically and through laboratory testing that you can increase the NRF two pathway. Now you and I did a whole episode on NRF. Two, in anticipation of trying to get these two guys together. Correct, which like typical entrepreneurs, and typical PhDs, they got a lot going on. And john did inform us I'm sorry, john, do you go by Dr. Gildea? Do you go by john? Do you just go by Dr. Brock elite?
2:23
My dad was a physician. So I I'm fine with a PhD John. Not a physician. So yeah, the doctor.
2:34
So when you write that when you write PhD, John, do people come up to him and go, John, John, your appointment is now available?
2:44
Yeah, some some some of my students call me dr. john. But that's, that's just them being kind of silly.
2:50
Well, this is something that is not silly at all. And what I'm really excited to talk about is how you guys got here, how you guys got to know each other. But I know that we have a little bit of limited time with you as the PhD. What I want you to at least explain while we have some availability with you, is why you decided to help David, develop this product and the lab that you have that?
3:21
Yeah, absolutely. I think the at least the crux of it was that when, during a commercial adventure that we're trying to do to figure out how to do personalized medicine. We have an arsenal of of compounds that we would try by culturing the cells from New grown from the person who had the cancer and then and then putting these bevy of pharmaceutical compounds on the, on the cells. And pretty soon after we have been doing that for a while. Sulforaphane kept on coming out really high on on the on the list, and it's because it attacks a specific type of cancer, cancer stem cell. And I know that's not even on people's minds right now. But that is the cell type that goes on to create metastasis. And we're all surprised that there wasn't a sulforaphane product out there. And so that combination of seeing this gigantic need, working with people had these cancer stem cell driven, driven cancers. We weren't we we knew that you know, you can buy the $650 for five milligram sulforaphane from from Sigma but that way, you know, one treatment would have been, you know, 1200 dollars to give person that. And so that was when we started trying to figure out how to make it and stabilize it. We grew up broccoli sprouts for a long time, got really good at that. scaled it up enough so that we could help help out one person at a time really. But, you know, from that we started down the journey of trying to figure out how to make it into a pill. Because a lot of people can't can't eat, you know, the, the cup of broccoli sprouts, that's necessary to get the right dose and, and so worked on that for a long time and then and then figured out how to stabilize it.
5:30
If you don't mind just to kind of paint the picture here. If everyone's not caught up. Brock Elite i derives its name because it's from broccoli sprouts, and it's elite because correct me if I'm wrong, john, but you essentially have the only stable so fear of fame delivery system available in capsules, in other words, and in other terms you can find so if you're a fan of different supplements, etc, on various platforms, some that rhyme or sound like a jungle, and they probably aren't the same. or certainly don't perform actively, like what we would find your broccoli does that correct?
6:09
Yeah, so the this sort of, I would guess the marketing hitch here is that they re coined an old name. The precursor to sulforaphane is called glucoraphanin. Correct. And so they changed the name of that to
6:29
sulforaphane glucosinolate. Yeah. Okay.
6:32
So that is the new marketing term, okay, because we're gonna I went, when I tell my patients, the first thing that they do, I say, Listen, I really think that for whatever reason, and I have a bunch of medical reasons why I want their NRF two pathway to go up. First thing they do is go I went on Amazon, and I found this sprout product that's $12. And I'm like, that's glucoraphanin and then that takes me down a rabbit hole. Can you just explain really quick, why glucoraphanin is not the same thing as so perfect.
7:00
So glucoraphanin is stable, and it's waterside long. It's relatively easy to isolate. And has been available for a long time, but you have to convert it through an enzymatic reaction. In order to make sulforaphane but then the sulforaphane is unstable. So you can make it all you want, but it's only going to stick around for you know, a day or so. So you can't put it in bottle and package it and get it out there. So that was that was sort of the magic because it is making the stable sulforaphane. And also along the way we were we're testing lots of other cruciferous vegetables and sort of the the added benefit was that we found that process that we landed on actually stabilizes all the, the isothiocyanates that's the term for all of the ingredients in in these cruciferous vegetables that are good for you. So like, you know, bok choy and, and watercress and, and cabbage, they all have their own individual combination of isothiocyanates. And so we found in testing in the laboratory that sulforaphane and another isothiocyanate from watercress called PITC act synergistically. And we basically used the most stringent test that you can do in order to measure for synergy. Just dilute the dilute the one compound sulforaphane until you see no response. And then you you dilute the PITC. Until you see no response. And then if you combine the two, and you see your response, you know that it's synergistic. So actually, the two primary compounds in our product acts synergistically. So even if someone else had a for fame, stabilized product, ours is going to outperform it.
9:05
That's awesome. So the beauty of this is we're leading with the science first because we're going to spend the rest of the time talking to David about the history how this all came to fruition and everything, which I find to be a very fascinating story. But it's a rare opportunity to talk with somebody with your knowledge about how you discovered to do these tests, and which is what I it's just it's so exciting to me that I could sit there and say you did these tests, first in a lab. So as you started to do this, did you have access to the lab immediately? Did you build anything as the business was being developed? How did you augment from a scientific standpoint, the whole process to try
9:49
probably ferret out within more but
9:52
we have a lab in my house.
9:55
I really get really
9:58
not That's
10:00
actually Eric actually makes propofol in his bathtub. And that's what we use to sedate our patients so fully understand that. That's not true as a joke.
10:15
It does not say that on the permission slip.
10:19
We actually, when we were doing wanting to do personalized medicine and not the shotgun approach, we purchased a decent amount of equipment we had in order to do cell base studies. And we did this actually moved all of my boys, my boys play room, they were three and five. And we moved their toys out in the lab in the playground. So
10:51
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, David. JOHN, just real quick, I know that I just wanted to grab you before you left. But chemically and speaking as a PhD, obviously, the reason why you've turned to broccoli and other cruciferous vegetables is because of what they had inside of them. Correct. And so if people consume broccoli, or cauliflower or Brussel, sprouts, etc, they essentially are a part of that same family. But what happens specifically, if someone were to want to eat them, whether mature or youngest sprouts, and then whether they be cooked or raw? And then tell us a little bit why it's kind of an incredible discovery to be able to put sulforaphanes into something like broccoli?
11:37
Yes, there's a lot of papers that delve into the try to optimize getting sulforaphane from broccoli, where, you know, they talk about how many minutes in, in a, in a microwave or, or steamed for a certain amount of time and things like that. And suffice it to say it's just a, it's a give and take. So the enzyme that will create sulforaphane needs a bunch of cofactors for it, and there's that forward reaction, but there's also reverse reaction, and you're always in a compromise. So it's being created, and it's being destroyed all the time. And, and sort of without getting into the specifics of it, we figured out how to make it only go to the right and, and and then afterwards, it's it's stable. So anytime that you're eating any cruciferous vegetable, you have to crush it and eat it so that you're releasing the precursor glucoraphanin to get in contact with the the enzyme
12:52
morosa burns from Myrosinase
12:54
Marissa. And then. And then the problem with that is that as soon as you eat it, they're your digestion will destroy the enzyme. And that's the same problem with consuming a pill that has the enzyme. And the precursor is that you know, a good portion of that enzyme is destroyed, because it's a protein and most proteins are digested in during digestion. So there's not much Myrosinase around to convert into glucoraphanin precursor into the final product. So yeah, that's the that's sort of the Battle of everyone is is doing and you do get some and but it's it's that reverse reaction that's kind of really blowing it for everybody.
13:44
Well, something that sounds really interesting to me is is that I know from talking to you earlier that y'all basically put put it to the test where we can theorize how things work in vitro, but you're able to deliver and use broccoli and tell us about how you're able to actually test the levels of the bioavailability of severe things. That way, we know that it's actually getting to where we want it to work.
14:08
Yeah, I've read at least I think I've read just about every paper out there on sulforaphane. And I never saw a paper that actually shows that it's working in a person, you know, other than whatever the clinical study that they're using. They saw, you know, changes in the clinical study. But the actual about chemistry test is to see that the interest to the active molecule is to accumulate NSL and translocate into the nucleus. So the test that we did was we took just a normal dose of of our Brock Elite product, and then in a couple of hours, we isolated cells from the cheek swab and then did beforehand and after after taking the product. And measuring by immunofluorescence, the cumulation of NRF, two in the nucleus and showed that the dose that's in our pill actually caused an induction of NRF. Two in in cells and a person. And the nice thing about it was that you can take those same cells and do an invitro assay in a dish, and then put on the pure sulforaphane, you know, the $650 per gram, five gram from from Sigma. And then do this thing, do a titration. And say, how much sulforaphane at that cell creates this response. And actually, the, the amount of sulforaphane that was put on the cells, five, Mike, five micro mole produced the same amount as our oral Brock Elite that we took. So we actually know that the amount of sulforaphane that gets to the cell, or the sulforaphane equivalent is at five micromolar, which is an amount that has been shown in you know, thousands of papers to be functional.
16:14
So in essence, they were able to show that they could activate NRF2 pathway.
16:17
Yeah, so dr. john, let me ask you, when you did these studies, and I, I know that you even tested yourself when you were taking it and you checked it, what was the timeframe like the the area under the curve when it finally popped up? And you were able to show that so I'm thinking from a gastroenterologist standpoint, where does it get absorbed? How much it's broken down? That kind of thing?
16:38
It's been it's been a little while since I did it, but I think it was, is either two or four hours, two hours. And from the literature, you people have measured sulforaphane in the bloodstream. Fahy group has done it from serum a number of times and measure the actual molecule in blood. And, you know, its its peak is around, you know, two to four hours. So we knew that that would be a good place to start. And so we saw a really robust response. And the first time we did,
17:15
and I don't remember if it was a fakie article, or one of your articles, but you did show that the second dose had a more, as you say, robust response. Can you discuss the big dosing?
17:29
Yes. So the notion behind that is really interesting. There's a number of mouse studies that show that not only just get interrupt to induction through, you know, the separation NRF two from keep one, so that it's it's enough to become stable, or it's blocked from being degraded. But one of the things that people don't know is that NRF two, regulates its its own gene products. So when you get an RF to induction, it goes and turns on the transcription of NRF. Two, that's a It's a unique molecule on that, when NRF two is turned on, it goes back to its own promoter and self promoter. And even beyond that, after you get this induction that stays on for as long as 72 hours. There's even another level on top of that, which is epigenetic, just kind of where the name of our lab came from. episodul ABS it's an epigenetic I mentioned. Nice. Yeah. interrupt to stays on as long as as much as six months after taking it for
18:43
weeks. Just really quick. Just explain what epi genetic response means.
18:48
Yeah, so genetics is, in general, what you would think of is, say you had a mutation and Gene, you get a phenotype in the DNA? Well, a lot of biology is actually created by the expression of the RNA of the whole plethora of genes expression in sort of the orchestra of what a cell is supposed to do. And epigenetics is the maintenance of transcriptional on and off states of a cell. So you can change the, the on and off state of a whole bunch of cells for the long term after you stimulate sulforaphane for just a matter of weeks. So that's kind of one of the brilliant things about NRF two.
19:35
So you had we had discussed this and you use the term I believe it was pleiotropic. we're describing because it almost seems too good to be true. But now when you say it's an epigenetic phenomenon, when you turn your NRF two pathway on, there are lots of downstream positive effects that can happen. And do you believe it's the epigenetic phenomenon or is it just turning Get on with the body, then does the it has so much it's um, you know, the NRF two pathway, we did a whole episode on it because it is it. It's something that nobody's talking about you guys are discussing it on a cellular level, which is amazing, which is why I really like everything that you have done, you started with a lab with the science working your way back, and now it's become a product in a bottle that I can give to people. So the whole aspect of my saying it right, pleiotropic? Or is that the right?
20:34
Yes, pleiotropic is a term used to cover this idea that NRF two turns on numerous classes of genes. So it turns on a whole bunch of genes that regulate detoxification, and it turns on a whole bunch of genes that are antioxidants. And then yeah, there's there's numerous groups of genes and, and then inflammation as well. So NF Kappa b. So being able to turn on those three different pathways that are all in all three of them are involved in many, many, many, or maybe all chronic diseases. This is sort of the magic and the juice. And that I think the other the other aspect that a lot of people don't realize is that, you know, the reason that reactive oxygen species became famous was that it did long term damage, and everyone knew that it was involved in chronic disease. Well, now in sort of hindsight is when you get hydrogen peroxide, or a lot of these reactive oxygen species being turned on I it at times, like viruses are known to turn off interested. So the actual thing that is broken, that is causing the chronic disease in the first place is low NRF. Two, and then turning it back on, obviously should should help a lot of those states.
22:03
And I love that you describe the whole how you figured out that murasame as the the enzymatic pathway can go forward or backwards, very similar. If there is chronic inflammation, it can shut down the NRF. Two, when really when you have chronic inflammation, you got to figure out how to get that up to stop the chronic inflammation. So I have this discussion with my patients that have either the propensity for autoimmune disease, or they have an autoimmune disease. And I try and explain it that I really would like a combination of a polyphenolic blend plus Brock Elite so that we can tip that scale back. So your NRF two can come up. So that it's sort of the seesaw of that. So that's the way you describe them Ross is going back and forth. It's a fine line. And as a society, I feel like we're all chronically employed.
22:53
Yeah, that's for sure. And then that that balance that's going on, that's pretty well established in the autoimmune disease world is that there's, there's some event that precedes autoimmunity. And whatever it is, whether it's you know, have a season without sleeping, or you have a viral infection, or you're, you know, someone in your family died, you know, they're all manifests the same way they it's, it's a genomic instability, inflammation, in all these processes that are involved in basically every chronic disease progression. And what's interesting is those those exact things are the things that you have to address to reverse any chronic disease. So, you know, a good baseline to start from would be to activator and f2. And like you said, you know, probably just following it would be NF Kappa b and inflammation.
23:58
One One quick, hopefully, it's quick, but it may not be. There was a paper or study that came out last year that the Ken and I both ran across that talked about that some cancers, try to essentially commandeer the NRF two pathway to basically kind of shield themselves from from destruction, and that way they kind of hide what kind of role would so if you're a vein supplementation, play in this where the NRF two pathway gene, or that expression is somewhat mutated, is there? Is there a role where severe pains can basically return us or? I don't know You take it from there.
24:40
Yeah, I've thought a lot about that. That role in general is, you know, the selfishness of a cancer. And, as opposed to a normal cell, which is, you know, thinking globally, it's, it's, it's trying to protect the whole organism that you surfing of f2 is, is basically, if you can ramp up your detox of a single cell, basically, the reason that that is, is such a bad thing is because you're throwing toxins at it to try and kill it. But if that cell is now robust, in that, you know, those two man, you know, detox machine at that point, then you know, those toxins that that's how you define successful, you know, treatment of cancer is that cell is, is not killed by the thing that you're throwing at it. That's how you define it. But basically, you know, we haven't found a cell line yet that if you throw so forth, and added it doesn't kill it so so that that specific scenario that you're describing is very true. And, and is part of the mechanism of cancer progression. But it isn't, it isn't this in a holistic way, NRF two works in a normal cell. So all the normal cells are going to be fighting to get rid of that cancer as well. So now on both fronts, it kills the cancer and it's making the cells that normally are working against the cancer, or better your immune system, your support cells,
26:21
especially the cells that are not tainted are the ones who are able now to better defend themselves by having a stronger interest is mutated on
26:30
that whole, that whole business of, of, you know, hijacking, blocking the immune system from getting to the cancer. So is also another aspect of of, you know, having a really brilliant immune system if you're trying to fight cancer.
26:46
Sure. No, that makes sense.
26:49
It's interesting, because as I've been using this in patients, the comments that have been told to me, so I'm trying to tell my patients you've got you're at risk for XYZ, cancer, autoimmune, and then I've had people come back and they purchase more, because they're like, you know, it's really interesting, giving it to my husband who has early dementia, and he appears to be doing better with it. And I'm like, that's interesting, okay. And then I can say, well, that would make sense from an if you increase in RF too. And once again, we're not saying that if you take a supplement this happens, but we do know that if you can increase a pathway known as the NRF, two pathway, then this can do certain things. So I'm seeing success with my patients in neuro inflammatory processes, which is a lot of things. I kind of got a giggle a little giggle out of this, because I heard David on a podcast, and he was talking about sleep and increased dreams. And I am a total believer in that. It's part of my sleep routine. And I'm putting people on it for sleep. And I don't I don't wear my aura ring anymore. I used to but because now I just I wake up and I'm like, Whoa, those are some cool dreams. Yes. And so they're asleep. And I'm like, how in the world does that play into that? And then from a gastroenterology standpoint, I've got two patients that failed multiple rounds of heavy antibiotics to treat H. pylori. And then ultimately, I'm like, Look, if you want to try something natural, and we do atrantil to plus Brock Elite, I'll try and teal is a poly phenolic blend that has some antimicrobial activity. And then broccoli when I heard who's the guy he just mentioned at Hopkins, that Fei Fegi, he had discussed that they have done some research on directly with H. pylori, and I've got two people that failed multiple rounds of traditional antibiotics that are now clear. Oh, okay, this is really cool. Like, this is some really neat stuff that's going on. And as I'm listening to you, I love it. Because although it may be it may be a little overwhelming for somebody hearing this or it's just like, okay, I just want the public to know how much work and how much science went into it before it ever became a product in a bottle. And that's so commendable. And so cool. And I, you know, you are where'd you get your PhD? It was a school heard of John's Johns Hopkins? Is that hope instead of college? I think they've, I don't know, I'm not really sure if they play football. I'm gonna have to look at that because of a football. So you're so so you got your PhD at Johns Hopkins, which is no joke and all the people that have done a lot of the research on sulforaphane like fe II have done a lot of that and when you were talking about the cost of stable glucose, stable sulforaphane, that even they admit that they can't do a whole lot of studies on it because it's just cost prohibitive. So what you've done is you've put lightning in a bottle and Very impressive. That is so cool. And you guys continue to do research on this, right? I mean, thinking of synergistic molecules to put with it. That's nuts.
30:11
Yeah, so definitely, always, always marching forward slowly. And definitely that target of NF Kappa V is a big one. We have our our list of compounds we really want bioavailable. So,
30:26
just really quick, you've said NF Kappa b a couple times we hear about NF Kappa b when it comes to inflammation, and certainly in this pandemic, that we're in NF Kappa b plays a big role, can you just explain what NF Kappa b does downstream
30:41
instead of NF Kappa b is the is the master regulator of inflammation. So inflammation is important in fighting, fighting a know your bacterial invasion, you get you you recruit your entire immune system to to attack a site and take care of an infection. The problem in the chronic disease state is that you get NF Kappa b. Induction, which leads to this cytokines released. And so even though there isn't an infection in this chronic inflammation state, your immune system is going and and invading that organ. And so the way the immune system works in that, in that case is it does a lot of damage just does bystander damage, inflammation and fiber optic response as well. So that's the that's the target is to try and keep this inflammatory state the chronic inflammatory state at bay that needs to be pushed back slightly. And sulforaphane does inhibit NF Kappa b. We measured it in, in urine and a clinical study measured interleukin six, which is a canonical target for NF Kappa b. So supporting does inhibit NF Kappa b, but there are molecules more powerful. curcumin is kind of high on high on our list.
32:19
Yeah. I can talk more about that. I we should probably let John go. Given his
32:25
Yeah, that that that we only have john for five minutes turned into a 20 Minute. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I
32:32
don't want to get him in trouble.
32:33
Yeah. So much. It was great.
32:36
JOHN, it was it was great. Again, thank you so much, and super impressed with all the work you're doing. And I love that you too, have teamed up you and David to produce something which I think is going to do remarkable things for people. It's certainly doing incredible things for my patients. So
32:50
yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's, it's a, it's something that fell into our lap was the correct circumstances, where, you know, it's always comes from, you know, a need, and then someone who's precious to you, and I mean, a lot of powerful things happen from that.
33:07
That's awesome. It's PhD john Gill day. Thank you, PhD, john. We appreciate it. And we're gonna hang out here with David with with rock elite as well, and certainly appreciate it. We'll have you back on again here shortly.
33:21
Thanks. Awesome. Thanks, john. Appreciate your time. Yeah.
33:24
Well, David, I've just been sitting there all quietly I know.
33:27
So now this is the now though. Now the backstory? Yeah, let's figure out how in the world you got that guy to sit next to you in the first place.
33:39
We're gonna be situate
33:45
around centering the camera. Nicely done. Done. So David, all that science didn't happen for no reason. Yeah, here there is that there's a large story that brought you near and dear to what it is that you did to to basically found what is now Brock Elite. I don't care how far back you want to go. But just
34:06
yeah. And and just for the record, I can't I do have a background in science, not like John's, but I can talk probably a decent amount about about Sulforaphane. But from because that's we talk about all the time, so and the backstory. My wife was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2012. And she was very determined to to treat it naturally. And at least not doing chemotherapy. And so we did a lot of reading and actually met john the first week, some of providentially and would talk to him regularly lay about papers I was reading. Anyway, fast forward. In March, our Mars cancer spread. And we're realizing that what we were doing wasn't working. And so we really decided we can't like, we get an excuse, we can't do a kind of a shotgun approach, we needed to know that something was working. And so we end up getting some cancer cells growing them in this lab we put together and and then john created this battery of supplements, to and what he would do is he put the supplements on normal cells, the renal proximal to the cells that we purchased, and then also the cancer cells that he was able to grow. And the goal was to kill the cancer without killing the normal cells. And so and so, yeah, software affine was was a top three and killing Maurice steps cancer, went to buy it, and then realized it didn't actually, it wasn't out there. So that was when we started growing. A lot of broccoli sprouts, brought broccoli By the way, Eric, you said, it's broccoli sprouts that we that that brought broccoli comes from the seed, so we don't actually sprout? Because it's, it's a it's a pain. Yeah,
36:46
I've actually tried to grow it and it makes your whole house smell like.
36:49
Yeah, it's, it's crazy. To be committed. So. But anyway, yeah, so. So we did that. And we would do some actually. So we have probably enough, we had enough sprouting material to probably 10 families. And so when you would use them with carrots and ginger and Apple, probably not Apple, but but everything was fresh. We threw some we actually all the the seat seats that we sprouted, we actually sprouted radish too, because it's back and radishes high and naturally high moroseness, which converts it. Yeah, everything converts. And then. So yeah, we did that for a long time. And, and, and it's kind of John's goal had been to stabilize this because as he says the literature was crying out for a stable form of the molecule. And so he kind of you would meet for lunch regularly. And just like, yeah, I think I have a stable form of it. And so can we get a test? I was like, yeah, so we get it tested at a third party lab, and found that we had it, you know, that he had stabilized it. And at that point, my wife was still alive and was like, we gotta, you know, this is amazing. We got to get this out to people because she knew how, you know how many people really needed it. And so yeah, that was that's kind of a, a portion of the backstory.
38:40
So thank you for sharing that with us. So in 2012, Mara, your wife, yes, diagnosed. And then as you were trying to treat as a team, meaning husband, wife, she said you need to keep doing this. And during the, during her cancer process, you were trying to figure out this stuff. That's pretty, it's pretty emotional and pretty tough.
39:05
Yeah. She did banned me from bringing journal articles to bed. I did that for several weeks. And she was like, Ah, so But yeah, I mean, you know, I have a science background. So it was it was it's, you know, she was going to she want to do it that way. You know, I wanted to support her the, our promise to each other was that it had to be backed by science. It couldn't just be loosey goosey. And and so, yeah, and that that's kind of how actually the our, our first supplement company or store was was founded, because we met the doctor who gave it to us and, and we were like, he was like, take this and like, well, what is it? It's like water. I don't know. But it's good for And I'm like, gosh, like, you know, I don't I just met you. So, so actually, john was able to figure out what it would what it did. And so we I bet it would be, first of all that what wasn't poisonous, you know? And then second of all, that actually is really good for you. So that was that was kind of the genesis of that as well. So So this all your endeavor into the whole supplement industry started with that, or were you part of the Restore company before or stars founded through what I just said. So basically, it wasn't even a story. It was a it was a, it was a white, unlabeled bottle that with a sharpie worked on it. And there's like, take this, and I'm like, dude, like that this goes against what we promised each other. This is like, there's no science. Sure, you know? And so, you know, you, you sound nice. But I'm going to figure out what this does before my wife takes it. Yeah. So then we found out that it was actually amazing. And then actually, that that comes with that company was formed.
41:27
So were you the CEO, that company
41:29
net. Okay, were you invited on personally, and then hope to get it off the ground.
41:36
Because I also on a, there's there's a scientific aspect, which is really fascinating. To me. There's the emotional personal aspect, which is equally fascinating. And then as somebody who also is involved on a business side of a supplement company, that's also intriguing to me also, so the, how, how I made this sort of thing is exciting. from that aspect, going from there to here, going from there to have this that I can hold. Yeah, there's always,
42:08
but yeah, we would. We would, you know, so you you got sprouts, they're strong, they're bitter. They, they're awful, actually. But they're potent, right. And so they're really good for you. And we would use them. So it wouldn't just be like a little it would be like, a ton. of and so it's like a massive dose. And, and once John, you know, figured out how to stabilize it, we would basically make these little basically would have a 15 lm a it was it was a liquid first. It was and and like a shot. It would Yeah, 15 ml, and this liquid extract, and then we put 15 ml of Lime juice and a packet of stevia, just shake it up, and then just down it. Like, I mean, and then we had actually another friend of ours, really could have benefited from that. I mean, she was really sick and couldn't take it. Mark could she could she could take it for the longest time. And then it just it but it's just, it's It was awful. So we knew we had to transition it into a capsule. But unfortunately, that happened after after Martha died in September of 2017. So we at that point shortly after that, you know, after we were kind of shell shock, kind of got it together and then figured out how to dry it and stay you know, in a stable risk. Yeah. So yeah, if you guys come to Charlottesville, you have to see a walk in and walk through when people walk through like, like, no, like, we made everything out like nothing. It's it's all unique. So
44:19
so that's what makes it so unique and hidden sort of the proprietary thing and how it's stabilized is because you guys actually develop the equipment to do this and figure out the process and all
44:30
that more process and piecemeal equipment it's already around Yeah.
44:37
First of all, I'm sorry that your wife passed away and I'm commend you to sticking true to your path and having this as her legacy and the millions and people that you can help because this all started. Yeah, out of out of the goal to help.
44:55
Yeah, I mean, we're we're hopeful that people are getting helped. And we do get a lot of testimonials not probably as many as you guys, but they they're starting to come in and yeah, and it's just like, Alright, that's, that's, that's really amazing to hear people and what they, you know what they, how it impacts them.
45:22
So Brock elite itself, you're talking about the number of testimonials, the brand the label the the name when did this actually take foot in and get into this bottle for to be available?
45:35
Yeah, that was we went to market in April of 2018.
45:41
Okay. So roughly two years we're is we're in the late part of 2020 on this particular recording. And so in two years, you've, you've obviously linked up with with Brown and his clinic we've got, I don't know how many patients who've begun to take it now. sleep better, feel better. Do better top to bottom? What where do you see? How do you see getting the message of broccoli and the importances of sulfuric veins as it empowers one's NRF? Two pathway? Because it's a lot. I mean, it's unfortunately it's a it's a lot of it's a lot of words and letters and not everybody talks about.
46:21
There's a we talked about this, there's so many similarities where first you have to explain a very complex, unique pathway that people aren't talking about. And we talked about this today, we're like, Why in the world? Aren't we talking more about the NRF two pathway, especially in the setting of immune health. And then the second thing is how in the world you climb over this giant wall of 2000 supplements that claim to do it. But we know just like dr. john mentioned that glucoraphanin is not a stable sulforaphane. So that's hurdle one is I need to explain why this can help you hurdle two is I need to explain why the $6 bottle from XYZ company is really not the same thing. And then hurdle three is this is a long play for you. So it isn't that your immediate ankle pain will get better, which is it's the Society of immediate gratification. So there's lots of similarities when when I deal with medicine, and I'm trying to get patients to stick to a regimen or something for a long time. From a business perspective. I'm curious how you're approaching that.
47:35
Yeah, well, I mean, the great thing about broccoli is a lot of people take it feel the difference. B and john alluded to the kind of clinical a pre clinical trial we were doing where we did on aisle six. And so basically, we did a three day study, we did baseline, day one proceeded to, and then broccoli, day three is is blinded. And to fit your ends into basically from in, there's no change in our six levels from baseline to placebo, but there was basically 24 hours from taking the one dose of Brock Elite, a 30% decrease in Aisle six, in 24 hours. So that's enough, you can feel and that was one dose
48:31
one goes decreased. So aisle six is interleukin six, which happens to be an inflammatory cytokine, which sets off a cascade Yeah, that currently, many pharmaceuticals are trying to block in this pandemic that we're in because we know that that could be the first cytokine that can set off a cascade. So it's fascinating that by increasing the NRF two pathway, it just puts everything kind of in balance.
49:00
So So yeah, it works. I mean, they're they're, they're related, they're but they're two distinct pathways. So it works with NRF. Two, what does work with NF Kappa b as well and which is upstream from or downstream from IO sticks. And so, yeah, it works in both and but that's in the literature. And you know, we we have done our own internal but the great thing about so karafin is all the little I mean, there are already 2000 articles out there so it's like we don't have to really do anything I'm unlike with store, we had to we had to do everything you know, but with software event, it's already out there. And so you don't have to, you know, believe us we just can shoot we just Schmidt our main portal is showing that it's actually we have so paraffin in the in the bottle and the capsule and from you know from a marketing standpoint We're about to get over I think we've, it's, it's, we don't have a lot of the product because it's really backbreaking hard, it's hard to make. It's and that's why it costs so much, because it's we're kind of what we do most everything by hand. And we're transitioning as we grow. But, you know, it's, it's hard, it's difficult to make and, and stabilize, but it, but yet we're doing it and we're slowly figuring out how to scale it. But right now, like, we don't want to market time, because we can't, we don't have enough. You couldn't even supply our city, let alone and you know, and so. So yeah, right now. We are, you know, making it as fast as we can. And, and so yeah, the the drying process is is is for going through, look at the solid is difficult, and we think we've cracked the code on that is not a patented process. It's we decided to keep it traces trade secret ID six trade secret process. So that's hopefully was a good decision. But we figured, you know, it had been around for a lot of smart people for a pretty long time. So it's probably pretty safe.
51:36
So something else to think about. And I don't want to make you talk off label about the brand, because we know that's not the kind of trouble that anybody wants. So let's just talk about sulforaphanes specifically. There is a different product, I believe it's used over in Europe, correct that they use for prostate, prostate cancer. Yes, prostophins. And then there's also some, some pretty deep studies that talk about lymphoma, there is the diffuse B cell lymphoma, as well as follicular lymphoma, which actually I've got a cousin who was recently diagnosed with that. So if your offense have been shown in repeated different clinical trials or studies to essentially activate that NRF two pathway to help those who basically have a managed cancer status. Is that something that else that kind of drew, maybe John to it whenever he began to test those cells, the cancer cells with the normal cells to make sure that so if you're if it was one of those compounds,
52:44
is that what your question is?
52:47
Kind of rambling? I just don't realize that. Like that.
52:51
All right. Let me give the backstory today. We were sitting there talking, a cousin contacted him it was recently diagnosed with follicular lymphoma. And then his initial response was, Oh, my gosh, can taking sulforaphane help that Ben we found some articles which said specifically the treatment of certain Hodgkin's lymphomas and flicklock almost not not non Hodgkins. Sorry, non Hodgkins lymphoma. They have looked at sulforaphane looking at that. And so then it was one of those things. It's like, Oh, so I called up a couple oncology friends. And they were unaware of this. They're unaware of that pathway. And so for a friend being there, and it just it, it gets us, you know, talking where it's like, wow, this is something that the literature is out there, you just have to go digging a little bit somebody has done it. And it's, it's, as in this space, with the FDA regulated type thing. It's as you know, you cannot say certain things, but the, but the pathway is there, you're not
53:56
doing laughing because he knows that it's hard to get rid of talk. This is what leads to rambling questions. I'm just gonna help Ken out, because now he's rambling
54:06
down and you're like, why don't you? Yeah.
54:13
So, you know, I can say that every cancer is different. And that's the bottom line. You can have two non Hodgkins lymphomas, you can have two, you know, breast cancers which are described medically the same that are completely different, right? They just are I mean, and so you know, John's put, you're talking about still purifying as a chemical that he got from Sigma Aldrich and then talking about cancer cells, not people you know, he's put a decent amount of stuff sheriffin Cancer cells and, and they typically it's not 100%, but they typically respond pretty well. And, and pathway wise. You know, there's, when you have cancer, you feel really bad, and there's a lot of inflammation that's going on that canister is shedding. And just just from that product that can help with inflammation would be great. If that was just it. That would, that would be it. You'd feel better, you know,
55:34
really like how you said that reset each cancer, even if it has the same name can behave completely different because oncology friends, they've got protocols, and it's, you know, this is this protocol, oh, this person got cured, this person did not do another protocol, oh, this person did this. And then you start going down. I've never thought of it that way that just because we're calling it colon cancer, not all colon cancers are going to respond. And so you're exactly right. Each individual is completely different. I love the way that you guys started the business as a cell specific line. And can we make it as an individual treatment by taking the cells the fact that you took more cells, put it there with the renal cells to make sure it's non toxic first, then let's see what works. That's brilliant.
56:23
that was John. So yeah. Yeah, I call John the cell whisperer, because he can grow like nobody, nobody, I really believe. I mean, this is not an overstatement. Nobody can do what he can do. And that the fact that he has a, he's just kind of manufactory. Yeah, to coat people swab and measure. And after he came up with that, you there's no nobody like you can read about NRF two be measured. But if you read how they're doing it, it's like an ordeal like, and he has a very quick, quick procedure that he came up with. He came up with the, his background before he went to Hopkins. He actually, if you guys remember the anthrax scare back in the early 2000s,
57:13
mailing of the an anthrax,
57:15
it came out he himself designed the five minute anthrax test, you could try, you can measure it. So that's sort of his, what he enjoys doing what he's good at is tests. So
57:31
what do you enjoy doing?
57:34
Wow, I love what I'm doing here. People are like, What's your dream job? This is it. I love the science, I love doing something that's worthwhile. And we're kind of peeling an onion, you know, because we know a lot probably, you know, we know quite a bit. But we're learning every day, every day about sulforaphane and you know, different things that we want to be doing with it.
58:12
Instead, it's just very exciting.
The smartest people are always on a quest for knowledge. It never stops. Yeah, never ever stops. But I will say, I'm going to pull the curtain back a little bit here, David, and that is that for every guest that we have on the show, we send out a questionnaire and ask various things like favorite drink and favorite band and different things like that. David left both of those blank. So I'm going to assign that your favorite drink is flavored Waterloo, which is mine also. And just simply because of John's work, I'm going to say your favorite band is anthrax.
Yes.
58:53
Awesome. So as you're peeling this onion recently went to your website, you got a few other products pretty cool you guys using similar technology and a few other which would typically be very on absorbable molecules, you're doing something cool. We got the perk elite, the berberine elite, and my missing one.
59:19
Those those are ones that we're we've been working on. We're just plying for the patent for the curcumin one. So that will hopefully it was approved, your patent will start releasing that it's currently not for sale. But then, yes, and that that's really exciting. And the berberine so Berg leads, which I think we're going to rename but we'll see is a burn as with that because that but it's for you know, blood glucose. So you know people Kido just from my background with Mara, I was like the sugar Nazi. I mean, every bit of sugar was counted, you know. And so the goal was to have less than 20 grams a day. And so we early on people hate stevia, but, or stevia how everyone loves it. But uh, yeah, we, and we didn't like it very much. But now it's just like, it's what my kids have grown up with. And we don't just no sugar, no sugar, so the sugar is evil. So we're, we're just the berberine, especially at night is important because melatonin blocks your ability to if you have a night meal flexibilities for the, for the glucose to process, so that I'll just drop it. And so that's, you know, exciting. So we're, we're actually had that on the market and are doing some more testing to refine it right now. So it's not currently for sale, either our a little bit
1:01:11
cellularly you're referencing sugar isn't? Didn't they say that? They don't have to gene actually can be mutated more rapidly with with refined sugars being present, isn't that correct?
1:01:24
I've not read that. So yeah, I don't doubt it. I'm just saying I'm not. I'm not familiar with that study. So, so yeah, I mean, it's pro inflammatory. A lot of the refined sugars, if people ask me, there's one, you know, because the cancer with my wife, if there's one, one food that you just one that you recommend, stop eating and love, and I get that an ordinate amount? Like, I love the question because it's quick. It's just like high fructose corn syrup.
1:02:09
high fructose corn syrup
1:02:10
there's corn syrup, the one thing I would say if you worry about cancer, don't don't eat things with high fructose corn syrup. And a close second is soybean oil, soybean. And that's in everything to so that today I just had ordered a organic hamburger from one of my favorite places and trucks. So I said hold the muster or hold the Manet's and hold the pickles. Pickles have hyper source corn syrup Manet's is made with with soybean oil. If you the reason why salads are so bad for you, it's not the lettuce, it's the dressing dressing less, it's organic, it's made with soybean oil. And so when the question comes, you know, I give them one thing, but I also go through things. And the reason both of those items soybeans, and corn from Tim, that makes high fructose corn syrup are genetically modified, the jag modification is there so that the plants can receive a roundup and not die. And that kills the weeds and allows in theory for a better yield of the plants of the crops. And most of the glyphosate gets washed away in the rain and stuff, but trace amounts get left on the plan. And that actually, because, you know, if you if you have one small amount of glyphosate, it doesn't matter, but it's in everything. And so there's this bio accumulation effect from being exposed to it non stop, and it actually your gut, your gut guy. It's insidious with the gut. A lot of actually had some friends move from Lebanon. And now that was like, watch out what you eat here. Because the food that you eat here, even though it's called the same thing, you're going to have got issues and they did. They're like, David, how, and then they get got issues. And then I'm like, seriously, and so they actually started watching what they're eating and refined. But glyphosate, the amount of glyphosate you can get in one fast food meal. It can drop your inner tube pathway 30% we mentioned that boom, that 30% basically turns off your ability to detox. So glyphosate is basically the mother of toxins that makes every toxin more toxic. And so That's, that's one of the pieces of research that john did. Like I said, also, we're talking about the ability for cells to connect, and, and can communicate through gap junctions. And each cell in the body is connected to other cells through a communication network called gap junctions, those gap junctions allow cells to be functionally coupled, they act like an organism versus individual cells. And so that's when cells lose their way, and become cancerous and that sort of thing, those cells don't communicate, and they lose their ability to act like in the organism. And so john also showed that the glyphosate reduces the ability of the gap junctions to communicate by 30%, or 30%. So that's enough that that lack of communication, all sorts of things can go wrong.
1:06:11
So we don't need to eat anything that's GMO, we don't need to eat anything with high fructose corn syrup. We don't need anything with soybean oil. These are things that essentially what you're saying, David, if I understand correctly, these are things that could exacerbate or even introduce or stimulate cancer growth and cancer cell. The the the oncogene gets activated, basically, when we consume these kinds of foods.
1:06:37
There's a Yes, yes. Yeah.
1:06:41
It's bad. It's bad news. Yes. Well, David, thanks for fighting through about three technical difficulties on here. And thank you to Paul for who put all this together and make it seem seamless. What What an awesome product, I couldn't be happier for this to have been only product number three that we've brought to KB MD health. And it's something that I know that can I both firmly believe in? We love what it does, for those who who use it, including me and my family. And just thanks so much for the time, and thanks to you and your wife for having the the passion to do what you did here.
1:07:20
Yeah, well, it's my pleasure. And looking forward to coming back on another point I do want to throw in, I will be talking about glyphosate. The reason we're doing that research was to show that sulfuric fen actually negates it brings or brings in our to back. So let's say depresses enough to but if you do play the glyphosate and so parafin brings it back to normal level.
1:07:57
So if I go to McDonald's, and I say, hold the pickles in the mayonnaise, and then I just opened capsules of Brock Elite over the actual hamburger, I should be cool, right? No,
1:08:12
no, we're not gonna but but and then also with gap junctions, that communication is reestablished with software offensive that the gap junction function gets re established so the that's the reason we were doing that those studies was to show the the insidiousness of the state but also that not to use it the way you just described that is actually a big deal. So but yeah, it's great to be here. Thank you guys so much for what you are doing in promoting health too and it's a it's a
1:08:49
you know, it's it's really fun to talk to bench researcher like dr. John to talk to you that has an extreme passion to get this out there for the right reasons doing the right science behind it with the right motivation and then me as a clinician getting to see the one to one responses that I get from my patients it's it's it's an honor for me to look my patients in the eye and say, I know these guys did their homework. I feel like we at KBS research really try and science up the whole nutraceutical thing and make sure that otcs have a lot of science and you are both you guys are shaming me because the science you guys do is insane, Wow, yeah, that is awesome. I want to thank you for everything. Where can where can people connect with you? Where can they find Brock Elite, and so on. Yeah.
1:09:44
So BrocElite.com and can go on there and we have an online store. So go ahead and buy it there. And we'll it's the best way to do
BrocElite.com
1:10:06
Yeah. And so I will tell everyone that's listening that as a clinician, I see tremendous effects with this. I am a little bit scared when you were saying it's a laborious process. And when you invited us down Do you intend us to put us to work when we come visit? Like you invite people to help with the laborious process?
1:10:26
No, no, we'll just take you to some, some of our favorite restaurants that have clean eating,
1:10:32
nice, clean eating and no and no mayo. Nice.
1:10:36
Yeah, man. So yeah, and hopefully, as people are listening to this, maybe we can do a coupon code we talked about that as well.
1:10:48
Absolutely. Yes. If you're if you're catching this podcast through video, or just if there's someone shared it to you go to KBMDhealth.com. Or just gut check project calm and you can connect not only with us, but David and dr. john Broc elite. We'll have all of those things available both in coupon redemptions, more information, data, data, data is what drives everything that David and John do. David, thank you so much everyone, like and share gut check project, Episode Number 44
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
0:00
All right gut check project fans, it is now time for a very special episode. I'm joined here with my co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. And we're here on episode number 43 with the 2020, libertarian vice presidential candidate Jeremy Spike Cohen spike, thank you so much for joining us here today here in conroe, Texas.
0:16
Absolutely beautiful. conroe, Texas, Eric. Ken, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
0:20
It's an honor to have you This is so exciting.
0:22
Absolutely. And sorry, for the brevity, we're going to have to move kind of quick because a lot of people want to talk to spike. So we're gonna get straight to it. Okay, if you were elected, and you have the opportunity to change the way that we handled lobbyists, specifically the corn lobby, the corn farmers Association battles to make certain that we keep high fructose corn syrup in all of our foods, we know that it can lead to disease. What is your position on how to handle things like that?
0:47
Well, the short answer is the government shouldn't be picking winners and losers in the market, it leads to this very type of thing we need to look at corn is a perfect example high fructose corn syrup. And the corn lobby in general is a perfect example of cronyism leading to actual death and harm as a direct result. So why is corn so heavily used in our foods? Why is high fructose corn syrup so heavily used in American foods and not really heavily used in other countries foods? It's because in the 1970s, the Nixon administration was approached by the corn lobby, which is a very powerful lobby, because they're based in Iowa, which is the first state that has primaries, in every election cycle, they were approached with an idea of stabilizing and lowering the cost of food in this country and the fluctuations in the change of the price of food in this country. By heavily subsidizing corn products. Corn is a hearty crop, it grows year round, it is a great way to provide an ever steady supply of food. Well, here's the problem. High fructose, high fructose corn syrup, is a great way to lead to larger rates of obesity, and diabetes and other issues because it is not processed the same way as other sugars. It is a very, very concentrated form of fructose, it can potentially lead to autoimmune issues, I have multiple sclerosis, I have not been eating corn or corn products for quite some time. And that's a big part of it. Anything that is high in carbs like that. And in general, this is another perfect example of what happens when government has the power to choose a winner and to choose a loser instead of the market. And which in this case would be consumers of food and health consumers deciding what is safest and healthiest for them and creating demand for that thing, which would mean an increased supply of it. Instead, the government goes in and says, No, everyone's eating corn, we're gonna lower the price drastically, it leads to those who have the least those who are the lowest income having to eat more of that because it's what they can afford. And it leads to what we have right now, the poorer you are, the more likely you are to be obese, the more likely you are to have diabetes, the more likely you are to have autoimmune issues, the more likely you are to deal with depression, the more likely you are to deal with a host of health issues that are directly related to the diet, and that the harm the poison that it's caused.
2:57
That is exactly what we just talked about. Wouldn't it be fascinating if on a more local level, we could subsidize fruits and vegetables? Get those farmers doing that?
3:07
And while that sounds good, here's the problem with that you're now picking another winner right? True. And so while that may be better than corn, without fail, you know, here's the thing. Fruit also was high in sugar. So I could very well conceive you know, a situation where now we're eating Apple syrup, or some other type of high fructose syrup that's coming from another fruit as a direct result of what was originally a well intentioned idea. This thing with the corn lobby, the I fully believe that the politicians who signed off on this Yes, they were getting their their you know, campaign coffer kickbacks from the corn lobby, they also probably thought it was a good idea. They're probably also thought that it was a good idea to be able to stabilize the food, in food pricing in the food industry in this country, it's led to massive harm. We don't know how many hundreds of thousands, millions, possibly 10s of millions of lives have been prematurely ended. And and and and the quality of life been reduced as a direct result of just another bad crony policy, what we believe is free markets, we believe that when people are empowered to be able to make their choices based on their best informed consent of what is the best way for them to eat, we're instead of trying to artificially lower the price of this and artificially increase the price of this. You let people make their choices with their themselves, their families, their health providers, what works best for them, and allow the market to dictate pricing and the market to dictate supply and demand, then you end up with a much more equitable, fair and healthy situation.
4:28
So while we're talking about lobbies, we can't ignore the fact that when we're looking at the corn refiners Association, and of course you have the sugar Producers Association, which includes RJ Newman, Archer, Daniels, Midland, Cargill, etc. They obviously have a big push to do sweeteners and then sometimes they work together and sometimes they battle for their own piece of the pie of this of these crony dollars. So with all of that said, so we know that there's this lobby for sugar, but we can't ignore the fact that there's Monsanto and Bayer so they have a lobby also, in essence, what is it that a liberal herion platform or a different platform, our ideal platform for that matter would look like handling lobbyists that essentially make us dependent upon things that are inherently bad for the core
5:09
issue here is that you have lobbyists and cronies stepping up to the federal trough to write themselves blank checks of your money that is stolen from you. The answer is to look at the root problem was the existence of that trough to begin with, get rid of the trough, give you your money back stop the cronyism at its core. And the demand for this these crony favors goes away. If the government can't give away crony favors, if they can't pick winners and losers, not just in the health care market. In the energy market, the corn industry is pushing for more and more higher levels of percentages of ethanol in your gasoline. And we now know not only is that know better for the environment, it's actually worse for the environment. It also was corrosive to car parts, which means it makes your car die faster. It makes your car require maintenance faster, turns out to corrode your insides too, right. So here's the situation that we have. This entirely exists because of the lobby system that is built around cronyism around the government's ability to hand out favors in the form of regulation subsidization taxes, mandates, and other red tape and bureaucracy and lobby favors that they create for their favorite cronies that by and pay for them to be in office, the libertarian platform across the board, whether we're talking about health, whether we're talking about education, whether we're talking about energy or anything in between, we are talking about completely dismantling the system and putting the power and the money and the freedom that was stolen from you back in your hands so you can make better choices, better energy choices, better health choices, better nutrition choices that are clearly have been made on your behalf by craven pandering politicians who often have no idea what the hell they're even talking about. And cronies who have a vested interest in pushing their own supply, even if it hurts you.
6:42
So that's that right there, in its essence, is how the lobby is affecting the way that legislation is handled, because there's no limit to terms of people who've been there for a very, very long time. Yep. But there's an institution inside being the FDA, which my my partner here has had to deal with specifically on a product that he created. Can you want to talk a little bit about how that's affected us with the FDA? Of course,
7:06
well, so being a doctor, I've got so many patients that can't afford their medications. I mean, there's medications that have been around for 50 years, and suddenly, it's 1500. dollars
7:15
for patent protection,
7:17
patent protection. So can you comment on that, because I think that is something that is directly affecting me as a physician, and my patients, that's my pain point. I've heard you say all the time, I'm going to meet you at your pain point, or I'm going to meet you where you're at. Yep, yep, this is where I'm at, I need to figure out how to get drugs to my patients.
7:32
So here's the thing that would when it comes to patent protections, I have been across what 30, almost 35 states now on this campaign, at almost every single stop, I talked to at least one person who tells me that they cannot afford epinephrine, or insulin. These are drugs that have been around for decades, insulin has been around for over 100 years, because of the weaponization of patent laws in this country. You have large crony big pharma companies that make negligible nothing changes to their formula, and then repatented and re, get it recreate a new patent for that, then they have new regulations passed at the government and insurance level that makes it that that new version is the only one that anyone will cover, right. So here's what happens. Because the price equilibrium, equilibrium has been removed from healthcare. And because they've cut out all of their competition, because they're the only ones that can can make it thanks to the patent protection, they can charge whatever they want. Because you're not directly paying for the app, their consumers are not the people that are actually or they're the people paying for it or not the consumers, nine times out of 10, who's paying for it is Medicare, Medicaid, the VA or government mandated insurance, which means they can charge whatever the hell they want. Because they've cut out their competition, and the third party payers have to pay whatever
8:47
guaranteed to get paid,
8:48
They're guaranteed to get paid. And if you're one of those poor, unfortunate souls who doesn't have health care, that doesn't have health insurance coverage, or doesn't have Medicare or Medicaid. You just have to die. And this is life saving drugs that on other countries cost pennies, which is why it's illegal for you to go to other countries and get it it's the same damn drug. It's the same damn prescription. Why on earth would you not be allowed to import it from somewhere else? Because it would make the cronies not get as rich as they are? All of these regulations need to go. All of these laws were created for two reasons to make your life harder, and to make you suffer and to make billionaires even richer and they all need to go away.
9:26
What is horrible about this is because it is a person over a barrel, they have no choice. If you have MS and you have a drug that can get you out of a wheelchair and walk. Yeah, but it costs $10,000 do you
9:36
want eat $20,000 every six to eight weeks?
9:39
Yeah, this is insane. And so what Eric was getting at is that I personally look at functional ways to treat this and there's many natural ways to do this. But we could never compete on a research level on to go to the FDA because it'll cost $20 million to do it,
9:53
which is the which is the purpose. The FDA was originally created to stop the snake oil salesmen, the people that were going around literally Selling snake oil and saying that it would cure everything? Well, it turns out that one thing that isn't talked about a lot is when the FDA was created, they kept selling snake oil, they just had to add something saying that the FDA didn't approve it for that. That's the thing that isn't talked about a lot. Here's what it also did. It created a cottage industry where if you want to create a drug or a treatment in this country, it better damn well be a pharma based drug. And you better have some good connections in the in government to be able to get the taxpayer subsidized 10s of millions of dollars in research and development and testing costs. All of this is built around again two things, making your life harder and greatly benefiting Big Pharma, Donald Trump was diagnosed with COVID. And within a week, he was out and being told that, that he was doing great and wasn't even contagious anymore. And this is from Walter Reed, he got at least three different treatments that are not approved by the FDA that if you tried to go and get them, unless you were able to pay big money out of pocket for it, you're not going to get that care. And yet he was able to get it. We believe in not just right to try laws, but completely dismantling the whole idea of scheduling the entire idea of the government deciding whether something is or is not safe. That has been a failed model that has made made consumers less able to get the treatments they need that has suppressed treatments. And I want to say, I know I've never heard of this treatment. I am not endorsing it. I don't know if it works or not. Yeah, I just want to be clear on that. But I have a feeling that there are many products like this that work a lot better than the stuff Big Pharma is selling you and the insurance companies would love to cover it. But they're not allowed to it costs less, it works better. It has a better safety profile. But they're not allowed to thanks to the FDA and the and basically the HHS, Health and Human Services and the entire system of cronyism, they've created
11:43
a question I don't want to ask you. I've been out here talking to these all these people who have shown up to absolutely support you. I am shocked at how many veterans are out there. Yes, I've met so many. Can you just comment on my aspect of it, which is the Veterans Administration in health care
11:57
if you are a veteran in this country, and you've sworn to protect the Constitution and the American people against all enemies, foreign and domestic. And then you were sent overseas by those domestic enemies to fight and kill and potentially die on behalf of military contractors and foreign dictators, and, and central bankers. That's a whole other subject. But now you've fought in those wars, you come home, you're often dealing with PTSD, you're dealing with traumatic brain injuries, you're dealing with chronic health issues, often chronic health issues that takes several years to manifest, because you were a kid when you were out there. And it takes a while for it to manifest itself. And now you're dealing with these issues, you were promised health care, you go to the VA, and they tell you, you better spend the next several years, possibly couple decades proving your percentage of disability, before they give you even the first visit to the doctor or the first course of treatment that you need that you earned. And if you do qualify for it, you have to wait months, sometimes years to be able to get it. And you have to go to one of a handful of locations across the country. Sometimes I've heard people that have had to travel five and six hours just to see a VA approved doctor, it turns out government run health care sucks. So what we have found is that it would actually be more affordable to scrap the entire thing and give you give veterans the money to be able to get your own health care to be able to get your own whether it's through a health insurance, health sharing an HSA or some combination of those things, have your money that you earned, to be able to go get the care that you need, you're no longer spending years to prove your percentage of disability before you can actually get any treatment. No longer having it ration how how often you can get it and where you can go to get it you can get it anywhere anyone else as health insurance or an HSA can get it, you get the care that you need. And it turns out that actually saves taxpayers including veterans, who are also taxpayers billions of dollars a year. That is our plan for so
13:47
say that one more time. So this will not cost our veterans more and it will actually save taxpayers more
13:53
veterans won't be paying a penny out of pocket and it will save taxpayers billions of dollars a year. It turns out that government sucks at everything it tries to run, including health care.
14:00
Ironically, it wasn't that long ago, about three years ago that we started seeing overflow from the VA for them to be seen in our private practice clinic because they simply could not justify the waitlist that they place is, as you put it, the veterans who've already volunteered their lives for us to finally get care. Yep. And they had been waiting well over 18 months for things that otherwise would have been emergent at least urgent. Yep.
14:24
Yep. Which, which is why VA hospitals are so over utilized. They often can't get care until it's at a crisis situation. And they end up in a hospital where they wait hours, sometimes days to get treatment. Oh, yeah. And sometimes they're handed like NSH. I've heard some of the most nightmarish stories of people that clearly were dealing with health emergencies and were given like, Advil, they were given nonsense and told to go home. They were told, oh, you know, this sounds like this is a big one, a psycho Soma, that it's psychosomatic, it's in your head, it's you're just you're just stressed out. That's what the problem is Go home and rest it. You're telling people to walk it off people that are coming in With obvious issues, some of those people ended up dying days later, because they had an actual problem. And the doctors just didn't have the wherewithal to be able to actually provide them treatment because of the bureau bureau bureaucratic state they put in place, and many of them end up committing suicide, we lose 23 veterans a day to suicide in this country, it is several times higher than the national average for non veterans. It is an absolute travesty, these are people who signed up to protect us and our constitution from anyone who would harm it. And the government that they signed up to work on behalf of who promised in the care that they need promised you the care that you need, lied to you, and instead is rationing it. And it costs more to ration it than to just give you the damn money that you earned. That's what Joe and I propose, give you the money that you've earned scrap the VA and let you get the care that you deserve the minute you need it.
15:50
It's interesting that you talk about it from the VA, because it seems like they don't stop screwing you at that at that intersection. And I would imagine that an administration that was run by Joe and spike, obviously would want to get in and then obviously reform to to dismantle is certainly the VA as it exists. Now. That being said, that also leaves a big eyesore with the CDC.
16:12
Oh, yeah,
16:12
back when COVID the pandemic began.
16:16
Have you heard of COVID? By the way,
16:17
I have heard it briefly. I was I was I was updated on it when I was walking.
16:22
Ken and I, I obviously were out of work on the on the private practice side on how we would see people for elective procedures. So we had almost a full eight weeks where we didn't see one. But we we were intercepted with an opportunity to begin early testing. And we had all of this opportunity. And we had friends of ours who had been working and had been found tests that were used all over the EU, in South Korea, etc. And then for some reason, they could not get what is called the EUA and emergency use authorization for us to use it otherwise, we would have risked our license to have administered it to our own patients. What can be done about that
17:00
for two months, for eight weeks that the virus was here, the government, the CDC and the FDA did not allow doctors and nurses and medical professionals to test covid patients, what is it we hear every single day that the most important way to slow the spread of this or any other virus that typically can spread asymptomatically, which means the majority of people will have it don't even know it, it is crucial that test test test test test test everyone, test everyone as often as possible, don't just test them once, test them as often as possible set the moment someone has it, you're able to contain them, you're able to do contact tracing, you're able to be able to try to slow the spread potentially even contain this thing. And for two months, the federal government forced the entire healthcare sector to sit on their hands, while sick people came into their offices and said, Doc, I'm scared I have COVID. And they would say we can't test you the few results that we knew back in January and February, positive results that were in this country, they were tested illegally. These were people that engaged in civil disobedience, tested people illegally and released the results. Otherwise, we would have been under the false assurance that no one had it here. That is what has happened with government and control of your health care. And of course, we didn't need a pandemic to tell us that government sucks at running health care, you can ask any veteran or poor person what their health care is like. But here's the situation that we have. We have a government that even today has not approved the majority of test kits that are out there. These are test kits that are being made in the United States of America, they are approved for use in almost every other country on Earth, and they have to sell them overseas, it would be illegal for them to sell them here. It would be illegal for you or your medical professionals to be able to buy those tests or to use them or to make their own tests. It is absurd. And that's before we get into certificate of need laws, patent protections, all of the bureaucracy and red tape that makes it increasingly difficult for medical professionals to save lives. Government doesn't save anyone's life. Government does not protect anyone government makes it harder for those whose job it is to protect people to do that job. And I will completely dismantle the system and put the power back in the hands of the health care sector to save lives.
19:09
One of the interesting things is that all the research that was coming out on we did multiple shows where we were looking at different different things. It all came from other countries. We couldn't do any of the research here because it was illegal because it's illegal it
19:21
was illegal to do here's what we told you, we have to find out as much as we can. We're working with incomplete data. And it's crucial that we test anyone and if any of you do it, you'll you'll lose your license. And if you keep it going, it will throw you in jail. This is what the government told us No wonder the richest and most prosperous country on Earth has the worst manifestation of this outbreak of any developed country. They literally forced the entire sector to sit on their hands. We already knew that this health care system sucked in the worst of times, and the best of times, it meant massive cost overruns. It meant you and your doctor not even knowing what the price of your services that they were that they were providing to you were for months or weeks or sometimes months. It led to us paying something like four or five times more than the average person does in the developed world. And in these types of times, it means hundreds of thousands of lives that could have been spared. And so what is their answer? Everyone stay indoors. Even though the reason that cold and flu season is the worst in the winter is because everyone's indoors during that time. And if you don't stay indoors, then for your safety will throw you in jail, where you are almost assured to get COVID-19 for your safety
20:28
as an ancillary ancillary topic here, because it affects the way that we're able to research and find out new developments for people, both in the medical sector and as well as what I would consider unnecessary incarceration, the drug war, what do what do spike and Joe want to do in regards to the drug war? And I asked this question, because we talk about the dangers of illicit drugs, right. So when we look at models that have moved to complete decriminalization, there's over 25 countries that have done so most notably in 2001. Being Portugal who has moved in that direction, they've actually seen a decrease in drug related and certainly drug cause death, has seen a decrease in long term drug use and active use. What is it that a Joe and spike platform or administration would do to help in the drug war
21:15
to schedule all of the drugs at the FDA level and end the drug war free people from the cages for engaging in victimless and voluntary commerce, expunge their criminal record so they can go back and rebuild their lives, we have seen what prohibition does like Like you said, we've seen what the decriminalization and legalization model has done, addictions go down because people are able to get help without fear of going to jail, criminal elements lose their source of income, so the streets get safer and governments become less corrupt because they're not getting bribed by criminal cartels anymore. Every single metric that is used to determine whether or not this is working, every single one improves, we've seen what the prohibition model leads to. We saw it with the prohibition of alcohol and we're seeing it with the war on drugs. Now, addicts, there are more addictions and more overdoses and more deaths, because addicts are not able to legally get help without risking going to jail. Criminal cartels are handed multibillion dollar industries that they have the market cornered on, which allows them to become incredibly powerful, and engage in gang warfare to fight over their turf and pay off corrupt police and government officials and put their favorite government officials in place to allow the flow of their drugs to continue, which leads to massive increases in corruption. It leads to an increase in distrust between the police and the government and the community that they're supposed to serve. Every single thing gets worse, we are less safe, we are more prone to addiction, we are more prone to abuse, we're more prone to other social and economic ills that come as a result of that everything gets worse, the government should have no business telling you what you should or should not be putting in your body, the war on drugs needs, it needs to end it has criminalized entire communities, the entire thing has been an absolute failure, unless you're a military, military weapons contractor, or you are a prison contractor or you are in a corrections union, or you are a contractor for police services, or you're a pandering politician who wants more control over people's lives. If you're not any of those things, this has made your life worse. We end the war on drugs.
23:06
It makes sense. I mean, it really does. I mean, the model, and this is not this is not a political endorsement. This is a model that's been in action for over 19 years.
23:14
Yep.
23:15
And we've seen not only the decrease in death, and addiction, but they actually spend one third the money that they used to spend on incarcerating and prosecuting those same people. And now they have rehab models, where
23:28
you save a fortune you save to have government run rehab. Now Meanwhile, we think that's best handled by you know, charity, and mutual aid and churches and things like that. But you could have a government run rehab center, universal rehab for anyone who wants it, it would cost pennies on the dollar, what it costs to lock people up. That doesn't include the opportunity cost loss of people who could have otherwise had a productive life if they had been able to get the care they wanted and then be a productive member of society. Instead they have recidivism, they're stuck in jail when they come out. They're criminalized. They don't know how to how to live outside of jail, they end up having to live on social services. Because they are unemployable thanks to their criminal record or unemployable in any real way. They can work some bit job for nothing. They end up becoming a wage slave and making next to nothing and still being on social services. It costs hundreds of billions of dollars a year to keep this thing going. It's time for a day.
24:18
Not to mention it also stymies research in those drugs. They determine our schedule one No, we can't do anything with them. cannabis
24:26
is I have talked to so many people who in hushed tones because in their state, it's still illegal. Tell me I was on opioids and thanks to cannabis, I was not only able to get off of those opioids, but it is effectively treating my chronic pain. It is effectively treating my PTSD. A lot of veterans who are dealing with this, a lot of other people who have trauma like all of this stuff ends when we end the drug war allow people that do what they will making informed conscientious choices for themselves with the help of their medical professionals.
24:54
Right now. Johns Hopkins is doing all these studies on MDMA, they're looking at psilocybin and the only reason why it's there is because private funding is supporting that they're supporting their whole program. Right. And they, they had to do such an uphill battle to go to the FDA to get this approved. But because it's Johns Hopkins, because it's powerfully backed, that's going to be a future like why is that considered a drug when, I mean, I'm totally with you.
25:18
And when that happens, they'll go through the FDA process. And now LSD and psilocybin will cost 10s of thousands of dollars, but
25:25
that's a lossy, they'll do
25:26
they'll synthesize it so that they can
25:29
make an accident, they will not perform nearly as well as it would have in its natural form. But
25:33
it but it's patentable.
25:34
That's right. That's, unfortunately, I think that people are waving us and saying,
25:39
wait, I just have one thing I'm, I've listened to you, I'm watching you. And on on the drive down, we came down from Dallas here, there is a poem called the Second Coming from Yeats and 1920. Anyways, it's, it's relevant now. You have to look at it. But part of the poem says, the best lack conviction, the worst are fueled with passionate intensity. It's a poem about how society implodes. And I think it became very popular because the worst are filled with passionate intensity, meaning that the people that we have a choice, the duopoly that we can choose from right here, yep, I'm looking at you. And I'm like, I'm glad to see you having both conviction, and also passion. There seem to be a candidate that is that has both been passionate about what's going on here and still having logic and conviction.
26:28
I can't not be passionate after talking to everyday people across this country and hearing their stories, how their lives have been ruined, or conversely, hearing stories of how simply being allowed to live their lives have greatly greatly improved things, people that move to a state that just allowed recreational or medicinal use of cannabis either, and they were able to stop having seizures, they'd have their whole lives, get off of drugs that have you know, had terrible safety profiles, all of these things that I've heard people being able to get care that they need when the government just lets them go and seek it. people being able to actually do what they need to do and save lives when the government just simply allows them to do it even temporarily. And then conversely, seeing how people's lives are ruined when government doesn't let them do it. Let's be very clear on something when government is telling you whether or not you can do something this is not your betters. This is politicians who often haven't worked a real job in their entire lives, much less run anything whose job it is to pander, receive money from cronies and then try to convince you that it's a good idea. They are good at pandering in line. You are being told by cronies who have a vested interest in their profit. You are being told by bureaucrats who just keep growing this bureaucratic state your betters, are you and people who have a vested interest in your health, your medical professionals, your family, your loved ones, people that care about you, that is who along with you making your conscientious choices should be able to decide how to live your life, not just in health, in business, in every single aspect and safety in your education in every single thing. You should be empowered with the power and freedom and money that was stolen from you. You are the power and you can fix this. And we will fix this together when we dismantle this disgusting, thieving, murderous system and put the power back in your hands where it always belongs.
28:06
conviction. That was awesome. That was awesome.
28:09
This is Episode 43 of the Gut Check Project and incredible episode This here is a an incredible guest. Mr. Spike Cohen, Vice President can't You can't say I'm sorry, vice presidential candidate 2020. Stay tuned. Thank y'all so much. I appreciate it.
28:25
Thank you Episode 43
28:28
thank you so much, brother.
28:29
Thank you, man. I appreciate it. Thank you
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Eric Rieger 0:00
All right, we are here at gut check project. Welcome KBMD health fans and family. We are on location in Conroe, Texas at Southern star brewery with my co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. I'm Eric Rieger Dr. Brown. It's Episode 42. And this does not look like our set.
Ken Brown 0:19
This is not our set. And this is very special. First of all, shout out to Southern Star Brewery, or letting us do this. Now we're here for a reason, a very special reason we are. This is going to be a really cool episode where we're going to talk about something really important and how it impacts the health and the future of everyone living in the United States. We're gonna talk about high fructose corn syrup. And there's a reason for that, because the next episode, oh, man,
Eric Rieger 0:42
It's huge if we won't give it all away. But if you're tuning in for this episode, you're missing out. If you're not watching the one that comes right after this, we've got a special guest. And it's the whole reason that we're here in Conroe, Texas, Southern Star brewery just north of Houston, you can hear the sound in the background, the music's going crazy, but it's all worth it.
Ken Brown 1:01
And the really cool thing is Southern Star Brewery, I just spoke with their brew masters, they do not use high fructose corn syrup. So we are in a perfect place to do that
Eric Rieger 1:09
We are in a perfect place to do this. So Dr. Brown this particular episode, we're going to really get down to the meat and potatoes we normally don't do, quote unquote short episodes, even though we try to do that. But today, we have a topic that we really kind of discussed that we needed to cover before we had our special guest on. And this is an election cycle also. So of course, the next guest the next episode is definitely I would say political when you say it is definitely political, but also like minded, very like minded and really much very interested in your health. So let's get straight to it. high fructose corn syrup. That's what's on the table today. Why don't you kind of steer us where we're gonna go.
Ken Brown 1:52
So we were planning on doing high fructose corn syrup, regardless. And then yesterday, a patient of mine sent me an article said, Hey, check this out. And an article just got published out of the University of Colorado, okay, where they looked at the lows. Yeah. And they, they were able to associate that symptoms, ADHD, aggressive behavior, and bipolar disease can actually be linked to high fructose corn syrup, not just Oh, if you drink this, this happens, scientists figured out that the reason why is that when you take in high fructose corn syrup, you are actually starving your brain. Your brain thinks it's starving, while your body's getting fat. And so because of that, your brain goes into what is called a foraging mode. It actually turns on remember when we talked about orexin and things like that when when you go into a forest? Yeah, guess what your brain is going Yo, we got to get some food here. Even though you're drinking mountain dews. And you're opening up, you know hohos and stuff and you are morbidly obese on the outside, your brain is starving for energy. And they're attributing that this could actually be the the reason why you have hyperactivity, creating ADHD, aggressive behavior, and bipolar disease. When you have foraging mentality, your brain tells you to go out and do something. So you end up with impulsivity, aggressiveness, and reactiveness. And I just want, there's no way a patient just sent me this article. It came out yesterday. And we were already planning on talking about this beautiful timing. So this is just one article. I mean, that just showed up yesterday. So that is, if you are interested in high fructose corn syrup, and you happen to be somebody who suffers from anxiety, ADHD, or impulsivity, listen,
Eric Rieger 3:41
well, another thing to take away here is where do you find high fructose corn syrup? Oh, I don't know, almost everything that's processed with sodas, breads, treats. It is a sweetener, per se. And a lot of people have even told me I remember when I was younger, that it was just like sugar. Well, it's sweet. And that's pretty much where it ends. We've already talked about the dangers of just even sugar exposure. Believe it or not, it's worse. It's truly worse. We're gonna get into it today, but Coke's, Pepsi's sodas, if they're sweetened. And I mentioned breads and treats. But in sometimes you'll find high fructose corn syrup and things that you don't even perceive as sweet. Which is the problem
Ken Brown 4:23
100% we're gonna get into that. Now, one of the things we do here on the gut check project is we want to bridge the gap. A lot of people always say, Oh, yeah, I've heard the same on high fructose corn syrup. And in this climate right now, it feels like everything could be politicized. Yes. And I feel like even bringing this up could turn into some sort of political argument. That's not what we do here. We're just gonna talk science. Let's, let's talk objective data. So I'm gonna throw this at you. You're better at the historical aspects of things. Let's just briefly go over how did we end up with high fructose corn syrup in everything.
Eric Rieger 4:57
I think if I recall the story, somebody What correctly, we needed number one to have sugar or sweeteners available, we wanted to see if we we mass produced products that the shelf life could be extended. And in doing so we also had farmers that had grown a lot of corn. And so you have the I think it's the Corn Growers Association or corn refiners Association, CRA that essentially functions as a lobbying agency for corn growers. And what they found is they could compete in the sweeteners market by mass producing high fructose corn syrup. And this process was, I don't know if it was discovered accidentally or on purpose. But ultimately, it's a two step process, which one phase of it is somewhat, I guess, naturally occurring if you force it, but it's not a natural thing to have.
Ken Brown 5:52
It sounds like you're describing a Labradoodle?
Eric Rieger 5:54
sorta a Labradoodle of sugar.
Ken Brown 6:00
Kind of natural, but it was forced. Yeah.
Eric Rieger 6:02
It's kind of like a liger. You're not supposed to have them.
Ken Brown 6:08
Did you ever see Dan Cummings? Chocolate squirrel doodle?
Eric Rieger 6:13
Oh, the comedian.
Ken Brown 6:15
He does a whole set on this exact topic. Yeah, mixing animals that shouldn't be missed. Anyways, off topic already, wow, are are super fast episode. on time, DeRay. A lot of the time. Everything you're saying is true. Let's just put a little historical context into it. So basically, since the 1920s, there have been farm subsidies. So the US government has said, okay, we need to help out. We've got a great depression going on, let's make sure we have enough food for everybody. And then, through a series of events, which I'm not an economist, but basically the 1960s. During the Nixon administration, there was a series of events like a couple bad harvest years, and then we made a bad decision to sell millions of tons of grains to the Soviet Union. And all of a sudden, we ended up with a shortage. This shortage, of course, led to the overcorrection, which happens in government at the federal level a lot. It's like driving down an icy road, you turn a little bit here and go well, and then you overcorrect and now you're spinning out of control. Yeah. So in the 1960s, they started this subsidies program where they were going to subsidize farmers and ultimately, the most abundant crops were wheat, corn and soy. Okay. So then this was started, because through a lot of different reasons, those were the ones that were subsidized the most. And then in 1996, it was discovered, oh, we've way over corrected, we've got way too much of this stuff. So the federal government put in new mandates, which then said, Okay, we're not going to subsidize this anymore. But since we were doing it for so long, everybody that was subsidized gets grandfathered in, at the rate that we've been doing. And since the major crops were corn, wheat and soybean, they got subsidized. And they were grandfathered in whether or not they grew, the crops paid did not grow anything Hey, did not grow. And guess who wasn't getting paid at all. The farmers that were growing fruits and vegetables, they got squeezed out immediately. So, so now you've got these farmers that are being paid with our tax dollars to make more of a grain that we don't even know what to do it.
Eric Rieger 8:20
I know we're gonna get into it. But you're telling me that essentially, we have a food additive that is being subsidized. So now it's already somewhat less expensive for not only a producer of foods, but even the consumer to get its hands on now. Right? So we've reducing the threshold of normal people to get their hands on the substance. Surely, since we weren't doing that with fruits and vegetables, it must be better for us, right?
Ken Brown 8:47
So what happened was, we have all this corn. And some Japanese scientists in the late 90s figured out that when you add a couple chemicals, natural enzymatic chemicals, you produce this high fructose corn syrup, since we're already subsidizing it. And it's really easy to make, then it's 70% cheaper than standard sugar cane or standard cane sugar. So automatically, you've got a 70% advantage. So then they realized oh my gosh, it's also two times as sweet as sugar. And look, it works as a food preservative. We just found the holy grail of the food industry. So it just exploded. And in fact, since then, or since it was discovered how to make high fructose corn syrup 1,000% increase in our consumption has taken place. It's ridiculous thousand percent. So our ancestors would normally take in. I don't remember the exact numbers let's but I think it's somewhere around 20 grams of sugar in a year.
Eric Rieger 9:53
Now we're in a bit just just to categorize that's not including just fruits and stuff. You're talking about just raw sugar and and another Think just for context, today's standard is just try to consume less than 22 grams of sugar a day a
Ken Brown 10:08
day. So in other words, right now, without even trying, most of us are consuming what our ancestors did in a year, in a day. So you said, Surely it must be better for us. It's not and quit calling me surely I don't know how many times we've talked about
Eric Rieger 10:25
airplane.
Ken Brown 10:28
Alright, so real briefly, we're gonna get a little sciency, then we're gonna do a quick deep dive and then come right back out. So just hang in there. But the whole point of this is we don't want to make it political. But it is impossible to not discuss some of the political aspects of it, because it's because of the subsidies that we're here on. Let's be clear, and if you identify as either right or left, believe me, both sides are involved. This is not exonerated either side whatsoever. All right. So why do you even care about fruit dose? Well, glucose, which is the sugar that we always talk about, right? table sugar is sucrose and glucose combined, and then all of a sudden we start throwing then it's fructose right about now a bunch of people are just going that's too many else's, like I agree with you. So let's focus on the one else. fructose. fructose is the only sugar which is metabolized in the liver, it does not need insulin to drive it into the cell. Glucose is used by every cell in your body, fructose goes straight to the liver, right. And it's when it goes to the liver, that it has to be broken down and then metabolized. That doesn't happen with that. So we've got this very cheap sugar that is metabolized in an unnatural way, right. And it's not used for energy. And we're going to come full circle here. But basically, we now know that fructose consumption has epidemiologically been connected directly to the diabesity epidemic that we have. And now I can tell you in a little bit on a cellular level, how it actually does that. But we've already mentioned that you said it lasts longer. So if you're going to go out, and you've got a granola bar or an apple, and you go Oh, the granola bar is healthy. That's nature made set it is that commercial showed hikers there and sure the commercial doesn't show somebody pulling an apple out of the backpack because an Apple has a shelf life, right? The granola bar can sit there forever, and it sits forever because they hide the sugars in it. Right? You don't even think of that now. And then we talk about other foods that are there. So when we're sitting there taking this for people that are like, Oh, I like this food better. I like this bread better. I don't know if you saw that, that an Ireland, they they won't allow subway to call in a sandwich. They can't call it.
Eric Rieger 12:37
I don't think they can call it a
Ken Brown 12:38
brandy. They can't call it a bread because the sugar content is five times higher than what bread should be.
Eric Rieger 12:43
Yeah. I mean, that's that's alarming. Like, it's not like, Oh, I can't believe they don't let us call us bread. Well, they can't call it bread because it's not bread. Yeah.
Ken Brown 12:51
Um, the interesting thing is that it is actually extremely addictive because it is two times sweeter than sugar. So you condition your body to watch that sweetness. Sure. And then we can get into exactly why all this is going on. The irony of it all is that actually makes people hungry right? Now I just told you about an article where you have ADHD because your brain cells are starving. Sure. Now, we know that when you take this, what does that mean? Tell me one benefit, other than it's cheap, and you can sell more products, but you get no nutritional value out of it. And you actually cause damage as you take it. Like it's like if you start with that they wouldn't allow it to be made ever.
Eric Rieger 13:34
I mean, quite honestly, it sounds to me like every advantage is somewhat sinister. It's it's there is no advantage about this. There's not a direct advantage that I'm aware of, for the person that's consuming it. And I think that's that's really what we need to be concerned about. Because we're consumers we
Ken Brown 13:51
Yeah, we do. And fortunately, we're consumers that are doing a podcast that a microbrewery that uses all natural ingredients, and they're very conscious about not doing that. We're consumers that are in the health field. Correct. And unfortunately, the burden of diabetes high blood pressure and death in the poorer socio economic areas is much higher than the general population. Yes. And then when you start reading about it, they consume they being people in poor social economic neighborhoods and in cities, they may not have access, they may not have the money nor access for healthy foods. I don't mean healthy. I mean just something that isn't fast food or in a package
Eric Rieger 14:35
right and most fast food is going to be made with high fructose corn syrup and other additives don't don't get me wrong. There's others out there. It's not by itself, but we're talking specifically about high fructose corn syrup today. And you're you're correct. The subsidy has made it to where that's what is obtainable. That's what they can eat because it's cheaper for the producers to Make it because it's a subsidized product because it serves as commodity. It doesn't make sense. We are making it easier for taxpayers to subsidize people who don't have money to get sick and stay sick. And they have this anxiety. It's a horrific cycle. Because if they're trying to climb out of poverty, guess what? They don't feel normal. They're not thinking, like they should be
Ken Brown 15:21
that article that discuss the impulsivity. Yeah, that really got me thinking, right? I mean, we always blame we try and blame so many things on different aspects. Oh, we're obese because we're not getting enough exercise. And I can get into a whole different aspect of this where the Corn Growers Association hired scientists to put out public statements that basically said, high fructose corn syrup is really good for you. You're just not working out enough.
Eric Rieger 15:49
Yeah, it's ridiculous.
Ken Brown 15:50
And then we're looking at this, you're like, wait a minute, areas that have the highest burden of obesity, and have high blood pressure and diabetes, which lead to this huge cost burden in the United States have the highest consumption of high fructose corn syrup. Yet, there's people out there saying, Oh, it's not related. They're just not getting out there jogging enough. Now, that is, I'm going to give you cellular reasons why this is wrong. But if you don't care about it, and I know that we're going to talk some politics on the next episode, if you look at the pure numbers, since high fructose corn syrup came on the market,
Eric Rieger 16:26
right.
Ken Brown 16:27
And we're taking 1000 times more than we used to, it is estimated that right now, 60% of the adult population is overweight. The prevalence of insulin dependent type two diabetes, that means diabetes that didn't respond to medications, and you eventually have to go to insulin is 9.3% of the population. Pre diabetics is through the roof, they're estimated that about 30% of the US population right now is pre diabetic. It's sad. 60%. It's, it's sad. It's also really expensive. Yeah, I'm gonna put you on the spot. How much do you think the burden of this cost the US annually? Thank you for putting me on the spot. And I will say eleventy billion dollars, because I don't know the number that is very close to 327 billion, because it's, it's encompassing the health care costs of this, that's ridiculous. If we could fix one thing if we could fix obesity and diabetes. Sure, if you take out diabetes, just the causes, just the morbidity of obesity Sure, is like 192 billion. And if you look at diabetes, 327 billion, that includes loss of work when people get sick, and you know, all the other weird numbers they put in there. 320. Okay, so imagine if we could sit there and get roughly 527 billion off the tax records off of our tax burden. And all we got to do is take one food subsidies. So we're paying taxes that are now going and making people
Eric Rieger 17:56
sicker. And it's by it's by design, if you just step back and look at
Ken Brown 18:00
and then right now in 2021 of the hottest topics and always is every election year is healthcare. What do we do with health care? We need Medicare for All we need this. We need that. Now. How about taking one thing that we're already paying for his tax dollars, converting it to something that the European nation is actively trying to ban 100% they're out, they're gone. We don't want to do this. And then what's really sad is when you introduce high fructose corn syrup, and I'm not trying to pick on anybody, but it's a soda company that ends in Ola. Ah, Mmm hmm. It's couple of them. Yep. You pick which Ola you want. Alright, so they've so they've looked at this, and one of the older companies did a real big campaign paid for their own studies, and got it introduced in Mexico. And now Mexico is almost caught up to us and diabetes, and obesity. And somehow, same thing happened in China. I mean, China says, FU to everything whenever they want, but somehow one of the older companies got in there, if you want to learn about that watch Patriot Act, because Minaj Hassan did a whole thing on this where he was like, How in the world can we not negotiate with China, but the older company just went in and said, pow do it. And now they're running into the exact same problems. He showed different commercials that they're running. And they had they, they gave them articles which show the same thing. Coca Cola has their own research institute, and they come out with things that say high fructose corn syrup is actually good for you. And you just need to exercise more. exercise more.
Eric Rieger 19:37
Yeah, I mean, it's ridiculous. If if you wanted to make certain that your bank was secure, it would be a bad idea or policy to get the robbers who are going to heist you later to check your security system, because that's exactly what's happening here. It doesn't make sense to take the data from somebody who is wanting to sell you what they're telling you is safe just on the other side. Yeah. They're the only ones who have the data that show that. Think about it. If you're hearing that high fructose corn syrup is okay for you, who is putting together study? And what did they study? Interesting? Is there a study? Or is it just a kind of a? We feel like it's, it's okay, was there actual data that showed a reproducible, less than 0.5 p value?
Ken Brown 20:26
I went down a little journal searching rabbit hole, because I did that thing you're not supposed to do when you read the whole thing. And at the end was, there's no way that studies so I started going through our Mendeley account and stuff, and then it said unpublished data,
Eric Rieger 20:41
so they don't believe in it.
Ken Brown 20:43
So they brought a PhD to stand up and go, it's good for you. We did a study on that. Trust me, it's right there. Right there in my brain. didn't even get it published.
Eric Rieger 20:53
Yeah. I mean, if you come home and your newspapers torn up and the trash is out, and you ask the dog, did he do it? And they go, No, he did it. The dog did it. It's the same thing. They did. The the study is not real. They're just saying it.
Ken Brown 21:07
Yeah. That happened to me when I was a kid once and I yelled at our dog, it actually was a raccoon.
Eric Rieger 21:12
couldn't believe he didn't call me up or dog saying no.
Ken Brown 21:17
All right. So even if you're sitting here, and if one of those scientists is listening to this, and he's like, no, I looked at the data. It's there. That's fine. Let's back off all that. Let's back off speculation. I want to talk about an article that was just published about two weeks ago. The title of the article is the negative and detrimental effects of high fructose on the liver with special reference to metabolic disorders published in the Journal of diabetes and metabolic syndrome. It's a lot, we got to teach these guys how to write their name. Because I got tired Listen, just kind of reading through the title. But what I just I'm gonna just go over the key points to this. Yeah. And then you make your own conclusion about this. So what this article looks at is let's talk about the cellular mechanisms. This isn't speculation anymore. This isn't taught let's just look exactly what's going on on a cellular level. Okay. So what actually happens is, we may have to put the nerd glasses on, I always carry him around in case it gets too nerdy when you go, you need to back off,
Eric Rieger 22:11
Clark.
Ken Brown 22:12
so got the nerd glasses on. Basically, you already know that fructose is metabolized in the liver. So I'm going to go through a five step process, okay, have a two part reason why high fructose corn syrup is messing you up. Okay. Okay. So we know since it's metabolized by the liver, step one, the liver tries to metabolize all this fructose that it's getting in, and it quickly cannot do it. So the liver converts it to triglycerides, or fat that so you start having these fat depositions in your liver, step two, the fat starts accumulating, and we call this fatty liver disease, right, the fat starts accumulating, and as a result of this, fructose becomes harder to metabolize. So in other words, the fructose is going, Hey, I'm here, I need to be metabolized. And these fat cells are just going like, man, we don't know what to do. Sure, because we're not built to do this, right. So then you end up with this snowball effect. And then that fructose that's sitting around starts impairing other processes, one of them being something called a beta oxidation process, where if you're a medical student, they go, Oh, that's how you break down fat. So you impair the ability to break down fat. So you impair the ability to break it down. And what that means is, is that it can't metabolize fat, so it leads to fat just sitting there, and it starts creating other problems. So step three, is a decrease in ATP, adenosine triphosphate. That is the energy that our cells you, you have to have it, I'm going to throw it back to the article that my patients sent me yesterday. So what happens is you get a decrease in ATP, which is the energy for mitochondria, that's the powerhouse in the cell. When this happens, the body increases and expression of an enzyme which I'd never heard of, and nobody's ever taught me this. So it almost feels like a cover up called fructokinase C. Okay, fructokinase C. So when fruto kinase c starts ramping up to get rid of the fat, all this other thing, it actually destroys more ATP, as it turns out, fructokinase C is a bad thing for around in your body. Sure. So it actually starts breaking down what little ATP you're making. And then this increases something called uric acid, which leads to a very vicious cycle of the fat not being able to metabolize, and then more fat comes up and then you start decreasing the cellular energy and now you've produced uric acid. And this vicious cycle actually creates severe stress on the cell, which leads to reactive oxygen species. I don't know if you Remember a few episodes back we talked about how one of the leading causes of obesity is oxidative stress. Yeah.
Eric Rieger 25:05
Rs
Ken Brown 25:07
Rs right there. And then guess what's happening. There's this battle going on, fat is just showing up because they don't really care. The body's trying to get rid of that. ATP is being used to try and offset this fructokinase C. And then you've got a mitochondria that are sitting there going, yo, we have no energy here, right? I've got no energy. And the brain cells go we have no energy. I'm gonna go forage. impulsivity, ADHD bipolar. So not only are you actually putting on weight, but you're starving, like there isn't. There's it's a lose, lose lose situation. Right. Does that make sense? Can Can you summarize that really quick? Because I feel like I got a little too deep in the woods.
Eric Rieger 25:50
Sure. I think while we have someone here, briefly announcing this behind. Not really announcing us behind this makes no, it makes no sense. It's even throwing me off. But I do think that I could somewhat summarize what we're talking about.
Ken Brown 26:04
I, I'll tell you what, I've been listening to what he's saying. He's like, Listen, everybody, if you're, if you're if you're here. Now, I just learned a lot about high fructose corn syrup. I want everybody here in the audience, too. And so I love that, that he's actually doing that for us. Thank you. I mean, I like it when we make that big of a difference that quick.
Eric Rieger 26:20
Yeah, everybody's on board now. Yeah. So I what I do, when I hear is they bring in high fructose corn syrup, we don't know how to metabolize it, or our cells don't know how to metabolize it is now giving us too much uric acid, which I actually made me think of. There's a close association between high fructose corn syrup consumption and gout.
Ken Brown 26:38
Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And
Eric Rieger 26:41
beyond that, when your body doesn't know how to handle this, you're just going to keep storing fat. And when it didn't have the energy, because you're destroying adenosine triphosphate, where you can't break it down to ADP, your cells can't, then essentially, it's going to keep looking for food. While you keep packing on fat. You're going to keep looking for food. While you're packing on fat, consume more high fructose corn syrup, pack on fat, keep looking for food, because you're not feeding yourself. You're not gonna keep burning the brain because the brain needs what it's not getting.
Ken Brown 27:13
Yeah. So now part two of this vicious little cycle that's just going on in the liver. So as it turns out, the liver in its attempt to get rid of the fructose just produces tons of this Fructokinace C. Oh, can I see that then floats around and goes to my special origin, the small intestine? Oh, yeah. Where What does it do it inactive. It makes the cells insulin resistant. So this made total sense to me where that study that we've talked about before I've talked about with my patients, where people that drink diet, cokes, have a higher propensity to develop diabetes right? Now that makes sense. They're taking in high fructose corn syrup, even if it is in the form of some artificial sweetener and things like that. I'm always always like, man, how's that happening? Well, bacteria break it down. And ultimately, you end up with fructose and the liver has to, you know, do this insulin resistance, the fructokinase c creates insulin resistance through a process called glute five, and all those other imacon get as nerdy as you want on this. Because I don't want it to be an opinion piece. I want it to be like, Look, this is what's happening. Sure level. So then fructokinase C gets into the small bow where data causes leaky gut.
Eric Rieger 28:29
It just is a never ending cycle. I have not heard one of the redeeming qualities. You told me you were going to tell me about high fructose corn syrup.
Ken Brown 28:36
I thought we were just gonna do the usual Oh, it looks like it's associated with this. And I found this article where they're like, no, it actually does this little tiny thing here that leads to this that leads to this that leads to this. So now, I mean, we always talk about how bacterial overgrowth can cause leaky gut or intestinal permeability. We talked about how glyphosate does it. Now, if you're taking in high fructose corn syrup, you're developing intestinal permeability, which allows the endotoxins to actually get absorbed directly, which then go to the brain. leaky gut, leaky brain. That's right. So one of the things that I always tell my patients, we want to avoid gluten, I want you to avoid products with glyphosate. I actually mistakenly have not been saying the most important thing to take out of your diet is high fructose corn syrup. I've been harping on certain molecules. Now I realize oh my gosh, this could be the root cause of a lot of the problems. Okay,
Eric Rieger 29:31
so this is a this is an important intersection, I think right here. And I think it's it goes for everybody go it went for me. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. We weren't told that because we weren't meant to find out about it. This was something I mean, our own federal government does subsidize corn. And the corn refiners Association presses hard every year they they compete with the Archer Daniels Midland. It's Edra, who run the sugar lobby, they, they fight over who gets the sweetener lobby money. I mean, and then they they're strange bedfellows they work together in, in in advocating sweeteners in certain foods. But the moment it comes down to which sweetener is going to go into your food, trust me, they fight over that. And Archer Daniels Midland who represents and Cargill who represent lots of sugar cane growers, they fight with the corn refiners Association. And I hate to say it, but in this instance, I sided with sugar, because at least it's somewhat natural, and our bodies, at least know what to do with it.
Ken Brown 30:37
So imagine if I'm producing this, and I'm selling this to a large corporation, I came up with a molecule. When you eat sugar. You need insulin to drive it into the cell, right? When you have insulin in your body, it gives you the sensation of being full. How does it do it? Because when insulin is there, a hormone called leptin. Yep, a hormone called leptin goes up and says, yo, we've had enough to eat. So if you're somebody that really struggles with your weight, and you're over there going, I'm trying I do not know. And people talk about sugar addictions. And yes, we know that sugar can have the same effects as cocaine and things like that high fructose corn syrup will, will do the exact same thing. Oh, icing on the cake, high fructose corn syrup, blunts the leptin response. Yeah,
Eric Rieger 31:30
well, I mean, it's already blocking what insulin does? Yes. So it now you're giving me a sweetener that doesn't let me know that I've technically had enough food, even though it didn't give me any calories that I needed in the first place. Exactly.
Ken Brown 31:43
And so you've got the situation where it is the perfect storm, if you're a corn grower, or if you manufacture high fructose corn syrup. Or if you are a manufacturer of something that is processed foods, right? Or if you're an insurance company, or a hospital, or anybody that benefits with the detriment of health. It's crazy. It's like you cannot, it's all it's almost like a biological weapon.
Eric Rieger 32:13
pretend for a moment, you're a junk food manufacturer, I'm going to come to you and I'm going to tell you, okay, Listen, I've got an ingredient, it's going to replace that sugar that you're putting in your foods. And at first, you're like, Well, why would I want to do it, because it's going to give you a longer shelf life, it's going to keep people coming back, they're probably going to consume three to five times as much as they normally would. And on top of that, it's inexpensive, because the government is is paying down the cost. Sold right sold because you don't care about the person who's buying it, you're just wanting to sell it. That's what they've done to you. That's what they've done to the public.
Ken Brown 32:52
If you eat any fast food, high fructose corn syrup, if you're opening a package, high fructose corn syrup,
Eric Rieger 32:59
go to you know, the other day, we're talking about ketchup, and we need to give credit where credit's due. Okay, so Heinz 57, ketchup and see it and all the grocery stores. If you go and look in most shelves, now they actually offer a natural, or organic Heinz ketchup now. And if you look closely there, it says, advertises no high fructose corn syrup, it's regular sugar. There's a reason behind that because the word is getting out. And if you want more choices like that, then make the correct choice for yourself. So with this show, we want to arm you with the information. This isn't really a joke, look at a picture of people gathered on the streets hanging out in the 60s and 70s. Again, just simply compared to today, I won't tell you what you're looking at, just look at a group of people. And then look at a group of people today. It does not look the same. And you can't blame it on laziness. I wasn't wanting to say this to laziness, there have been lazy people around for generations for centuries. They're lazy people that existed back in the 70s that have way worked out or whatever else. We still didn't look like this. It doesn't make sense.
Ken Brown 34:05
I think we just gave a pretty compelling argument of so much of it is not your fault, right? And I hear that from my patients. They're try and then even well intentioned people going well, I meeting mine, I don't want to I have not done the due diligence to look, but let's just pretend like it's a Lean Cuisine or something. The fact that it's got a shelf life probably means it's got some high fructose corn syrup. Yeah. And if it's got some high fructose corn syrup, all this stuff is happening to you. And at the very top, it's you're not going to get full, because you don't have a hormone that says you're full, and then it just starts dripping down. Oh, your brain is going to be starving. So you're going to be more anxious, you're going to have anxiety, you're going to have impulsivity, oh, and then all of a sudden, you're getting fatter, your liver can't process it. Now you've got intestinal permeability. And then the one thing that is my passion, that probably is the least relevant to everybody out there, it affects the microbiome, you decrease your microbial diversity. It's not. It's literally poison.
Eric Rieger 35:09
It's poison. And I did challenge yourself. So you'll notice they're like, I don't mind giving these guys a shout out, Justin, Justin's little peanut butter chocolate.
Ken Brown 35:19
Yeah.
Eric Rieger 35:20
So what makes Justin's unique if you pay attention to it, they are made with real sugar. And so all of the different flavors of Justin's peanut if they have something sweetened, because they also have just like nut butters and things like that. But they're Almond Butter Cups, peanut butter cups, a walnut Butter Cups, or cashews, whatever it is, but they're all made with regular sugar. And then they may be slightly more expensive, but just go and compare that to your standard gas station candy aisle. I'm not gonna have to say any names. Just go look, the first ingredient is going to be high fructose corn syrup. It's cheaper, they don't care. And of course you want it. You want it because your brains been programmed to want it. That urge just make the leap and start fun. I'm not I'm not at this point. I'm saying avoid sugar, just pick the right time. And it will at least start allowing your body to react appropriately to the sweetener.
Ken Brown 36:13
Absolutely, you can you can retrain, you can do this. We, I feel like I tilt at windmills, you know, the Don Quixote style, I feel like I tilt at various windmills. I just I don't know how I missed this. It's, it's like it. It's been camouflaged. Yeah, out there. And I'm like, that's the truth thing that we need to make our mantra here.
Eric Rieger 36:36
Another thing to think of to kids, if you're making your kids lunch, check the bread. In our I purposefully went through the grocery store that we have close to our house here recently, and just checked all the different breads, there's a I think I counted, there was a 47 different kinds of breads and bread brands to, to mass produce bread brands had a line, not even all of the lines had a line that didn't have high fructose corn syrup. And like their wheat bread, for instance, the rest of them do,
Ken Brown 37:10
don't buy that. Well. And then the other thing, they're catching on to this. So I started looking at labels. Also, it goes by a bunch of different names. Oh, almost made up names by the food industry, where they and I wrote them down someplace because I was like, so annoyed by it. It's like they when you look it up, you're like, Ah, that's high fructose corn syrup. And they call it like something else, like whatever. And other countries are starting to do this now where they'll name at different things. So it's like, okay, to avoid it, try not to open packages, refined foods, try and eat those whole foods on the outside of the grocery aisle where they really want you to walk in, go down that middle aisle, they want you to hit those cookies right away. Because that's it's cheap for the grocery store. They know that you're going to buy them it's hard to not buy it that go on the outside, get some whole food first. And then really try to because once you start that path, it's it's super, it's super hard. So I don't know, I it opened my eyes to be honest. I mean, one of the reasons why I love doing the show is that we I get the opportunity to take a few moments to look at something where I normally wouldn't. This is one of them.
Eric Rieger 38:16
Yeah. And I love the show because we get to get into subject matter that just like you said, it's it's bringing something to your attention. I think that this is a topic that maybe I've kicked around with family members or friends but I even at times, I don't know how seriously I took it until I decided to do the research myself I my last soda, my last sugared high fructose corn syrup soda was several years ago, but that was buying. That was on purpose. It was by design, I wanted to stop consuming that stuff. It wasn't easy, but doing it, I feel better doing it. And I want I just really want everybody else to have the same opportunity, same information. There's no reason for us to keep in this crazy cycle. We only live once of feeling sick, not feeling our best. I want you to enjoy your life. There's
Ken Brown 39:06
no reason to do this, the idea that on a federal level, we're paying taxes to produce this to make us sicker. I mean, if I were a politician, if I were in charge, I'd be like, subsidies are now shifted to fruits and vegetables, corn, you've had your run. No more grandfathered in subsidies. You can't just have excess corn you don't know what to do with. So you're gonna, you're gonna convert it to high fructose corn syrup. We're going to feed it to our animals. We're going to do this. I know that there's a role for it. I also know that it's, oh my gosh, I was trying to do some research on this. And I discovered a Netflix video called corn or something like that. Okay, this is this is wild. It was in Iowa. These guys from Boston, found out that they had relatives generations before and they wanted to see what it's like to farm corn. So they got a one acre plot and then they kind of lived in this little Iowa town. I'm about halfway through it, but it's really this is really awesome. So they planted their corn, and then weeds started coming up weeds. And the guy pulls it up. And it's hemp. Oh, wow. It's hemp. That's how much hemp is wants to grow. It's like I want to be here. Yeah. And then what do they do? Very good, glyphosate, whatever thing and they just kill everything in between the corn. And then all of a sudden, you're taking high fructose corn syrup, and you're adding glyphosate and chemicals and stuff to it. And so we're taking poison, I'm going to give you arsenic, and then you're going to mix it in gasoline and drink it.
Eric Rieger 40:35
It's funny the same as getting gasoline, because they also make ethanol and all that excess corn. Hey, yeah. I mean, just, I don't know, this episode is a great, a great introduction for our next show.
Ken Brown 40:48
Absolutely. That's the whole purpose of doing this, that we understand that, you know, this is a lot to be thrown at you. But just take a second to look at it. And look at least look at the various names are called
Eric Rieger 40:58
One last thing I wanted to call back on a recent but previous episode, we had one two shows ago, I believe might have been three, where we talked about the increase in gi cancer in people. There is another study that we can't get to today, it's very, very in depth. Well, it's not just one size, there's several. But there's one that really ties together our current day food additives, including high fructose corn syrup and the increasing incidence of gi cancer. It's not a joke. It's not something that we're just trying to say, Oh, don't eat sugar to not get But no, in fact, eat real sugar. If you have to have a sweet tooth, the study
Ken Brown 41:35
results were pretty simple. The equivalent of one can of soda a day resulted in increased cancer in mice.
Eric Rieger 41:42
Yeah. It's It's not good to say it's and it's horrific that our that our government subsidizes it and you mentioned it earlier, you can change the name of how you see them the label, you know how hard it is to to put an all natural product and what it is on a box. It's actually good for you. The FDA is really hard on this.
Ken Brown 42:02
Yeah. So in case your Eric's now holding up a box of atrantil no high fructose corn syrup, and I'll turn to no so no additives, no additives, so it's
Eric Rieger 42:11
a little annoying. Well, regardless, I'm pretty
Ken Brown 42:13
pumped about our next show coming up.
Eric Rieger 42:15
I am too so be certain to check out 42 right. This is 42 next one's gonna be 43. Thank you. Paul Rogers went on the road with us by the way. Yeah,
Ken Brown 42:24
this is a special thanks once again to Southern Star All natural brewery. Southern Star here,
Eric Rieger 42:33
the whole thing. But seriously, so Episode 42. I think it's gonna do it for today's show, or for this
Ken Brown 42:38
particular show. Yeah, I'm proud of us in so many levels. This is the shortest show we've ever done. How many
Eric Rieger 42:43
minutes is that? We're at like, 42. We're only 12 minutes over. Well, thank you so much. This Eric Rieger with my co host, Kenneth Brown. that's gonna do it for episode number 42. Be sure and check out the show notes. We've got information on getting in touch with Southern Star brewery as well as a think we may end up adding after we published some information on where we can find some of the studies specifically on high fructose corn syrup, and it's dangerous to you.
Ken Brown 43:10
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for tuning in and definitely tune into the next one.
Eric Rieger 43:15
All right, see y'all then
Eric Rieger 0:00
All right, it is now time for the gut check project with the COVID file installment number 11. I'm Eric Rieger, with your co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. Dr. Brown what's happening today?
Ken Brown 0:10
What's going on Eric? I love you sticking to your roots and the hair just keeps getting bigger and bigger this COVID do that. Yeah going on it's starting to starting to really rock right now.
Eric Rieger 0:20
You can you can see roots you can see some gray Kevin but yeah, roots. Whatever it takes.
Ken Brown 0:27
How have you been? What's going on with the family? let's get let's get caught up on that stuff. We're not doing enough personal stuff lately.
Eric Rieger 0:33
Man family. It's funny. You mentioned that. Yeah, considering what we're going to talk about. But this weekend, I get to go and see my oldest he is in his first semester at Texas Tech. He's loving it, but I'm not seeing him in over a month can't wait till this weekend for us to say hello to each other and youngest Mac has got basketball this evening. They're doing tournaments. And of course, both of them are having to do this readjustment obviously around COVID. And Marie, I couldn't be more excited to to obviously go and watch the boys play. And then go watch or go catch up with gage this weekend. And she and I just remain busy. So it's a it's it's the world we live in now. It's prefaced by my COVID. What about yourself?
Ken Brown 1:23
things are going really good with the family. We're trying to figure out how to get back at some of these tennis tournaments, as they put them on, and they cancel them and so on. So talking to mom a lot and trying to be very proactive about speak with mom trying to figure out how I can get my 79 year old, very Spry mom who's feeling better now than she did when she was 69. So and then 59. I think she's feeling better now than she has in 20 years. And so I started thinking about that I started thinking about family and how important that is. And this is what I want to kind of get into today today's I kind of threw you a curveball, I initially said we're going to talk about something and then I started going down these rabbit holes of research. And rather than rabbit holes, I'm gonna call them vole holes, the prairie vole holes. Alright, I'll explain how that ties in. But when we're looking at this, I'm sitting there talking to my mom, and she sounds great. And we're trying to do this. I've got, you know, we did some some zooms with some other friends around the country. And I'm like, wow, this is an interesting time. And I then started thinking about my practice. And I'm like, and my practice is really busy right now, like people are really struggling, and they're very desperate. So I started down this whole path. This is where it began. And this is going to end up being Angie Cooks podcast, because she's going to come on and I'm challenging her to be the expert in this, because I just got done doing Chris Kresser's podcast where he agreed, we need to bring this one thing out in the open. What we're seeing and what I'm seeing with patients is a consistent deal where if people have some sort of gastrointestinal problem, specifically CBOE, I can trace it back. And then you have these people that are showing up with dysautonomia, they've got pots. Ehlers Danlos and which comes first chicken of the egg did something cause that, if those terms don't mean anything to you, good. If they mean something to you, then you know what I'm talking about, because it's this. It's this constellation of symptoms that nobody has put together before, which is gut something happens to your gut, then suddenly, you're diagnosed as having Ehlers Danlos. And then it's postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome called pots. So for all those people that have this, and there's actually way more than we realize, that's what I started with this, I was like, Oh, I'm going to do a, I'm going to do the preface, the the sort of general 30,000 foot view of why we have this and then I started thinking, Wait a minute, why is this why are we seeing more of this now? Why are we having more gastrointestinal issues, which conceivably can lead to chronic long term stuff. And then I had a wake up in the middle of the night moment where I went COVID people are recovering from COVID. But then they're having chronic issues. And it's really all over the map. Now, cardiac issues, pulmonary issues, some some nerve issues, are we going to end up with a whole new wave of almost post Lyme, chronic infection type things that the immune system is turned on? So then that got me thinking, I'm like, Oh my gosh, we got to figure out this whole motility deal. And during this really busy time, I've got all these people and then I got a article was sent to me by the Journal of American Medical Association, this month, September 2020, that signs of depression have tripled in the US since COVID 19 pandemic So 28% of the people surveyed had at least one symptom of depression, you compare that to 8.5% pre pandemic. So it's not just the number, but the severity of depression is increasing tremendously also. And there's actually a significant number of people that have been diagnosed with serious depression. When you fall into that category, you start really worrying about suicide, you start really worrying about breakthrough of other problems. And it usually requires a ton of treatment and different things to try and get this under wraps. So there's very little research going on right now discussing this. So we've got this COVID problem, even if you don't get COVID. So if you get COVID, it's possible, you have to worry about a long term consequence. We know it can infect the gut. And then even if you don't, we're seeing the next wave of impending pandemic of depression that we're going to have to deal with. So
Eric Rieger 6:00
No joke. I was just going to add that the I guess the the syndromes that you're describing Ehlers Danlos, and POTs, etc. It is reminiscent to the time when you were addressing IBS and bloating, okay, because those were somewhat seen as throwaway trashcan diagnoses. And that's really kind of stealing a lot from you. That's what people felt they're like, well, I don't know, it's IBS, I don't know. It almost feels like it, we're we're now sustaining a wave of POTs and Ehlers. And we're seeing these people come through and they don't really know who they can turn to. And little bit by little bit, it seems like maybe we're making a little bit of headway. So drawing this connection really pulls me in, and others who may actually have happened to suffer from this, or who have witnessed family members suffer from this kind of stuff, because there has to be a way out. And there's usually a cause and just kicking it under the rug and pretending like it's not there is not really going to work. And if we know that COVID is setting us up to experience syndromes similar to this, then more than likely, we can walk backwards and figure out what was it that COVID did to put these things in motion? And what can we do about it? If we become infected to hopefully either curve it or not experience it all together?
Ken Brown 7:23
Well, I think one of the biggest things is that if you are in a situation, you cannot have a healthy immune system without a healthy gut. So what I'm saying is that we do have evidence now that when you have a something that affects your gastrointestinal system system, like an h2 receptor, where spike protein can bind to it, and then that's where the, the whole disease starts, that could lead to a domino effect of more chronic problems. And so I'm sitting, I'm just like, wow, okay, this is daunting, my practice is full, we're getting all these people showing up with these, I don't, I can't give them a good answer. On the whole, you had got problems. Now you've got these other long term issues you have to deal with, and this JAMA article comes out. And so this is where I start going down some balls, like man, I really want to be able to help, like, what is this connection, it says there. And then I started looking down this and I was like, wait a minute, let's look at this. Depression essentially is a form of reaction to some sort of stress. Stress, we know causes a sympathetic response in the body, right? We understand that a fight or flight response is the sympathetic response that affects intestinal motility. And we know through all of our other podcasts that we've done, and and other people and guests that there's a tremendous brain gut access. So as your co-host of the gut check project, co COVID, files number 11. I'm at least gonna try and do my part, which is if all this is going on, let's at least protect the gut. And we know that if you were to change the motility, you can develop cebo then you can get leaky gut, and then you can develop these other problems. So I was like, Okay, wait a minute. Now we're seeing that these covered people are having heart issues, brain issues, there's all different kinds of things. I'm like, I can't just get on there and say, well, we got to protect the gut. So I found an article published this month, and I went, Oh, this is what this episode is going to be about. It's going to be about give your neighbor and Atrantil and a hug. Give your neighbor just a little bit of powerful nature's polyphenols and a hug, huh? Yeah. Kudos to Chris Kresser. Because he mentioned this study, in which he went Oh, did you see that thing? So that means like, this study just came out like last week and I was like, Man that stays on top of it. Yeah, a recent study. This is where we're gonna end up. And this is why giving somebody a hug could be very important for your gastrointestinal health. Okay, this is what's gonna be about it given to you in a hug. Okay, so a recent study with rats looked at gastrointestinal motility in the setting of stress. So what these researchers did is they showed that when rats are exposed to acute or moderate amounts of stress is that they were able to show that the rats developed gastroparesis, they did not go into why gastroparesis is slowing of the stomach. I'll explain to my patients that when you go through amount of stress, the sympathetic nervous system slows your intestines down. And were to develop bacterial overgrowth, you have a reflex from your small bowel to your stomach, that slows it down. I get all these people diagnosed as gastroparesis. And when we fix their cebo, the gastroparesis goes away. So these guys were saying, okay, we know that these rats when we expose them to stress, they develop gastroparesis, but we don't really have a way to help them. So then one of them, I really like to see how they decided on this one particular thing, then they decided to check something that has not actually ever been reported before. Someone was that somebody had the wherewithal to say, let's check the oxytocin level. You familiar with oxytocin?
Eric Rieger 11:24
Yeah, I am familiar with oxytocin and, and or pitocin. oxytocin, I think is the endogenous form of pitocin. Correct?
Ken Brown 11:33
Correct. Yeah, it's also known as the hormone that mostly is associated with pregnancy and giving birth. Right, the pitocin part of it, you as a crna. You, you know, you do the epidural and somebody and then you start the pitocin, drip and it and there's lots of contractions,
Eric Rieger 11:49
causes uterine contraction, you get the baby If someone's been induced, and that's what we're doing is we're giving them that hit or pitocin through their IV.
Ken Brown 11:59
Yeah. And so the way that I learned about oxytocin was mostly through my gynecologic rotations, where you're looking at stuff like this. Well, as it turns out, it's a really cool little neuropeptide slash hormone, you made it dead and just have one use that we isolated for our own convenience doesn't just have the one use and then everybody thinks about it. It's been, it's been labeled as the love hormone, the cuddle hormone. It's what helps moms develop their lactation when the baby cries, it's an oxytocin response, all this other really cool stuff. These guys said, hey, what if we got their oxytocin up higher? conceivably, what if the stress decreased their oxytocin raise their vasopressin. And maybe that's why they're having GI issues. Nobody's ever put the link together before where it's like, Look, we just say that, oh, when you're under stress, you're you have gut issues. How, hence the vole hole. So what they're able to show is that these rats with higher levels of oxytocin recovered from the stress and improved gastric motility. their guts recovered when they can raise their oxytocin level. Okay. And then they took these knockout rats and what knockout rats and mice are is that they genetically raise one that is incapable of producing something that they want. So then they raise these rats that were incapable of producing oxytocin, and their gastric motility and their GI tract was horrible. So their data showed that oxytocin directly influences the neural pathway of the stress response. Why is that relevant? Because when we have Angie on and we do our motility, deep dive, maybe a couple different podcasts, and Kresser agreed with me on this one, it all comes down to motility, we have to fix the motility. And this is a particular it's known as a neuropeptide. A lot of people refer to it as a hormone that actually affects the neural motility.
Eric Rieger 13:59
Right
Ken Brown 13:59
And I went, Oh my gosh, I have not heard of this before. So now what we're talking about is oxytocin as a stress adaption that could actually help motility. So rather than just immediately build a cuddle room in my clinic, where patients come in and they get rain and Amber and Andy and my all my other staff will rotate cuddling with patients to improve their oxytocin level. I thought I'd look into the science a little bit more before I just jump into that. And then I it got me thinking with not only is COVID creating all this depression is it is some of the problem because we're isolating ourselves. I mean, I still want I mean, I still don't like the zoom way that we're doing this, but at least we have some interaction but is it conceivable that one of the reasons why we're having so much depression so many of these other issues that are we ignoring our oxytocin?
Eric Rieger 14:58
Hey, you know, I had to quick things one is quick. And that is, I think that now we've established especially with the with the mice or the rats, that oxytocin is not a gender specific marker or a hormone, right? So males and females are going to benefit from this. But a side note long, long ago, I was watching a special and they were talking about some of the side effects that happen to people who happen to be imprisoned, and who were put like into isolation, for whatever reason, you know, down in the hole. And one of the early issues that occurs with them is GI distress. So I kind of feel like, maybe we're going, I mean, beyond the depression beyond the the the things that could just simply drive someone crazy in their own mind by being isolated. A lot of it was just simply inability to have normal functioning GI tract. So
Ken Brown 15:56
anyway. And so let's, let's just keep on that for a second. You have stress, you are able to muscle through some of your gastrointestinal issues. Instead, just have to have to keep the stiff upper lip and keep moving. What you don't realize is that if you're not taking care of your gastrointestinal health, then this could lead to a cascade of other inflammatory things. So how do you improve the inflammatory aspect of everything? That's the really, that's the really interesting thing. Now we have talked improving your immune system by mitigating your inflammatory response using polyphenols. We've talked about improving your NRF two pathway which decreases the inflammatory response. So now I'm going to give you the trifecta of let's go down some vole holes and talk oxytocin. And why do I save vole holes? Because I found this incredible scientists. She's a neurobiologist named Sue Carter. And she's internationally recognized as this behavioral neuro endocrinology PhD. She is the director of the Kinsey Institute, which looks at this and all her work has focused on oxytocin. And she found the what was presumed to be the only mammal that had a monogamous relationship, the prairie vole. So when I say I went down vole holes all the research on oxytocin has actually been done on Prairie voles by this badass scientist named Sue Carter. Yeah, and her work is really cool, because when you read some of this, she studied oxytocin and voles. And the reason why is because they were they were presumed to be the most social mammal and monogamous and they really don't care about their environment. So you can take two moles that love each other, and put them anywhere, and there'll be just as happy because as long as they're socializing, they're, they're super cool. And her first discovery was, voles are not monogamous. In fact, female voles will actually go and mate with a random male vole, and then fight with them afterwards to kick them out to basically come back and be with her lifelong mate. So they have lifelong mates. But the vole will actually go out. And she explained that this is probably it's not like it's a super what's the term for when somebody sleeps around a whole lot? And but the appropriate term is going promiscuous.
Eric Rieger 18:34
Thank you for rescuing. Yeah. None of which we're going to be appropriate for today. But yeah, good save.
Ken Brown 18:43
So it wasn't that these that these female voles were promiscuous, it's that there's a genetic reason for doing this, that if you can have a genetic pooling, where you have more genes, but it's the family rearing aspect, and so what she was able to show is that it doesn't have to be the original Mother/Father, as long as there's a family unit or some sort of unit. And then, you know, she references a lot of psychological studies in humans, which this has been shown multiple times that, you know, this is where it's at. So the vole has a very similar oxytocin response to humans. So it's the perfect mammal to actually study. And at this point, that's why I'm going down boltholes. Now we should probably define really, what oxytocin is on a little more scientific level. oxytocin, it's an evolutionarily ancient neuro modulator, and hormone produced in the hypothalamus where it's pumped directly into the brain and into your circulation. So very complex way to say this thing has been around since the dawn of time, to help us adapt to our environment. And in fact, oxytocin, which is the love hormone is known as the cuddle hormone. It's associated with childbirth and women. But now we realize it's in everybody. When it goes up, that really means that you're in a time of abundance, that means that you're in a time, this is a time to love, this is a time to do things. And when that's up, it actually does all different kinds of things. And we'll get into that in a second. But one thing it definitely does is it improves your immune system by decreasing inflammatory markers, very similar to how the NRF two pathway functions. When there's types of stress, All right, now, your oxytocin goes down, your vasopressin goes up, and you send signals that you're under duress. Does that make sense?
Eric Rieger 20:46
It does. And so basically, if you it just sounds to me, like if you're under a lot of stress, it's hard to love. And if you aren't receiving love, you're probably going to find yourself in a lot of stress.
Ken Brown 20:59
Yes, so here is the thing that nobody's talking about, we've got a massive amount of depression going on, because of COVID. And then we're saying everybody stay away from each other. Yeah. When the reality is what we're going to do at the end of this podcast is talk about how we can increase our oxytocin levels. But just to show how important it is, what was she was able to do just a few of the things it enhanced memory production. It has been shown to increase muscle mass. So it has been shown to help heal wounds quicker. So they can show when your oxytocin levels up. You have less serious infections, you actually can learn things better. You can develop more muscle, it's like kind of a, it's one of those like, that does too much. Well, it's that important. It's one of these homeostasis type hormones. oxytocin vasopressin, she was talking about all different kinds of studies that perhaps one of the reasons why there's a cycle of teen pregnancy in certain lower socio economic areas. Could be that when a mother is stressed, she sends a signal to the baby that's in her. Oh, hey, we got hard times. Yeah, baby. Down regulates its ability to produce oxytocin. Oh, my. So it comes out. guns blazing, not ready to cuddle? Yeah, baby has been sent a signal that says you are being born into hard times. And when that happens, then you can end up with a sequence of events. And it's just tip of the iceberg about where she was going with it. And she showed it with these prairie voles, she had certain moms that were under stress, well, then the baby would have lower oxytocin levels throughout its life. They go so far. Yeah, it's really wild stuff. Super, super wild. Because I'd never really thought about oxytocin before. I've always thought of as a pregnancy thing. And now I'm like, whoa, wait a minute. So what it helps you do is it helps you adapt to a changing environment. I was thinking of a Time Suck. With what? Dan Cummins, Dan Cummins. And I just had to laugh about it. Because he he almost describes this when he was doing the Genghis Khan, he's just like, Yeah, can you imagine being born in this is a kind of like, you're born into this horrible world, and you're just about money. And I'm like, oh, that oxytocin was really low in poor Genghis. Yeah. And yeah,
Eric Rieger 23:29
it really, really was.
Ken Brown 23:31
And so a lot of the oxytocin levels in a community can be manipulated by the strength of the community, and learning from others. So part of what makes the oxytocin go up a little bit, is the reward aspect also. So when you learn from somebody, and you don't have to fail a bunch of times your oxytocin goes higher. So each generation, if done right, should have slightly higher ability to have the oxytocin because you're learning from the next group in front of you. And then it it's, it's a safety thing, the more control you have, the more abundance you have the higher abundance, meaning you're not fighting for your life, not Lamborghini, whatever, I'm pretty sure that, you know,
Eric Rieger 24:20
in a weird anecdotal way, if you think about just growing up and being in a classroom, it seemed like that, in certain subjects, you would have friends that were just more adapt and and better at listening and getting instruction. And so as a lesson progressed, they didn't seem to stress about subject matter. So their ability to relax and learn and take in information. They had a comfort zone with that. So they may have had some amounts of oxytocin being released, which allowed them to take up the material and then they didn't stress as the material is reintroduced. They were tested on I mean, it's, it's a cycle, right? So it's probably there's probably a pattern there, too. Where we can, we can help our young kids and children, etc, by learning how to get comfortable learning, learn how to learn.
Ken Brown 25:07
Yeah, absolutely. Now the good news, Eric, you don't have to worry about this at all, because as we've discussed in multiple different ways, Big Pharma is super excited to be involved in the oxytocin rush here.
Eric Rieger 25:20
Yeah, I'm sure that they've, they've got our best interest at every dollar.
Ken Brown 25:24
So they've got multiple animal studies showing that you can kind of manipulate the oxytocin in an animal. They've got nasal sprays in Europe with just straight oxytocin, we've got this synthetic one pitocin. Well, she's also got a ton of ton of work about how that will never work. Now, it will never work. You cannot play Mother Nature in somebody's body with something so intrinsic and delicate and complicated. So unfortunately, at least in human studies, when they have tried to do this and develop a drug where you just take a shot of oxytocin, and your immune system improves and everything, your body, surprise, surprise, starts to down regulate some of the oxytocin receptors up regulate the vasopressin receptors, because it goes this is weird. This is something's odd, and so then the body automatically offsets it. So then when you stop, you've got all this vasopressin, which is your fight or flight, workplace and when you began
Eric Rieger 26:21
gonna be stressed out to the hilt, it's it's it's no different than when someone over for a long period of time consumes steroids, and then they don't produce their endogenous steroids anymore. I mean, that the adrenal fatigue or they shrivel up, they don't do anything. So it's a it's a real problem.
Ken Brown 26:38
Yeah. So here we are, in this pandemic, the vole hole was I'm I'm worried about chronic conditions, and dysautonomia, and gi issues, which then led to finding the study on the rats, which then used oxytocin to look at. And so here we are, in this pandemic, depression is super high, we're socially isolated. We know that when we're stressed, we're going to have lower levels of oxytocin. It's that seesaw. If you're really stressed out, you're basically telling the vasopressin to go up and oxytocin goes down. Easier said than done, right? Don't be stressed, you'll be fine. So we know that right now everybody's stressed. So your oxytocin is lower, this can lead to my perspective, the GI tract will be affected. So a neurologist will tell you what it will do in the brain. a cardiologist will tell you what it will do in the heart. But we do know that oxytocin affects gi motility. Gi motility, in my opinion, is the underlying reason why all these chronic conditions are actually developing. So you're gonna have poor intestinal motility, you feel bad, which actually leads you to want to be more socially isolated. So a lot of the stuff when people are like, man, I just, I'm unhappy. I'm depressed, but I don't want to be around anybody. Yeah, give you a neuropeptide reason why that is your oxytocin is low. Your vasopressin is saying this is not the time to be cuddling. You know, we are flight thing going on. Right?
Eric Rieger 28:10
It is getting to these, there are many, many examples it seems in life where we you can easily fall into these catch 22's, where you're, yeah, you're heading this one way. But for you to recover, you almost have to break the bounds and force yourself to do something that will allow you to get better. Otherwise, you're just going to stay unfortunately, in this cycle.
Ken Brown 28:31
Yeah. So if you're listening to this, and you do have a little, any type of depression, any type of anxiety, we need to get your oxytocin up. If you have irritable bowel, if you've got cebo. If you've got any other gastrointestinal issues, we need to get your oxytocin up. Oh, if there's a slight possibility that you could be exposed to a virus. You need your oxytocin up so that your immune system reacts appropriately. Now let's get to oxytocin and the immune system is that oxytocin does exactly what our NRF two pathway does. They all work together, polyphenols, decrease interleukin six, which helps mediate your response. Yeah, it turns out oxytocin mediates the body's response so that you don't overreact. It's all about the thing that we talked about the endocannabinoid system, it's about being in balance. So oxytocin actually helps your immune system, which could be one of the reasons we said it during the NRF two, podcast but you can almost say, well, maybe a little bit of oxytocin's taking place because when you're NRF two is down. That means that you have higher inflammation. Once you have higher inflammation, that means your oxytocin will go down. So it's that you're exactly right. You got to break a cycle here.
Eric Rieger 29:50
Yeah, you got to you've got to go against intuitively what's Unfortunately, the pattern that feels like that, that you're on the path that you're on, right. You ever think about it? When you've got your friend and you're, you're growing up and your friend, he just broke up with his girlfriend, or if you're a girl, it's your girlfriend, or boyfriend, they're really sad. They don't know what they want to do and feeling really down, but you convince them to come and hang out with the friends, etc. And almost every single time, by the end of the evening or the outing, whatever it is, that particular person is ecstatic that they were, they're surrounded by people that cared about them, they loved them. It sounds like it's a lot of this community that you're describing, because it helped them get through something, right.
Ken Brown 30:34
So this is the crazy thing. So I've talked to patients that been going through a lot, they start going through depression, they start gaining weight. They're like, I don't know, I'm even now I don't want to be around anybody I've put on, you know, 40 pounds, since it's COVID. Oh, I hate to break this to you. You're gonna put on weight if your oxytocin is low. Why? Because your vasopressin goes up, which is your fight or flight, which is your cortisol. So every time that you said, Well, I'll start mingling, once I lose weight. So as a weight loss product, we're going to tell you how to get your oxytocin up. In fact, I was talking to a patient today. Wonderful, just love to see people when they round a corner, and they're just really happy. Yeah, a patient of mine I've had for 17 years, and looks phenomenal. Did his COVID hair looks great. And it's his disease, underlying disease that he sees me for is under total control. And I start finding out, got remarried, has a new social circle. They have a they have a process where they, every Sunday, they have dinner together every whatever. And I went that is it right there. Because in every single medical study, listen to this one more time in every single medical study, a support system and social interaction will outperform drugs and diet. Now, there's a lot of people that would go No, no, no, no, no, you're insane. But if you look across the board, and you start really realizing that and you start teasing out some of these factors, actually people that do have a support system, and it was always theorized, oh, well, they have a support system, because their family members help them make sure they stay on their drugs. Oh, they have a support system, because they've got this and that could be oxytocin. Yeah, it could be this one thing that nobody's talking about?
Eric Rieger 32:29
Yeah, definitely. No, I agree. I mean, just take an inventory of the people that you know, best. And not I mean, probably not every time someone will have a different example. But usually, your happiest friends, your happiest family members are those who are in touch surrounded by not only support, but they give support and they receive it. And I'm just thinking of just several people. Yeah, that's who they are.
Ken Brown 32:56
So the oxytocin's every night, this Volvo was really big this that Sue Carter has dedicated her whole career to it. And the science behind it is all her data. And it's really big. It's the first time I started looking into it. But of course, I got to do what we try and do, which is bridge some bridge some gaps. So we will try and give you some tips on how to increase your oxytocin naturally. But I also want to look at a couple other things, we always seem to find that when you start looking at Mother Nature, secret weapon polyphenols, is there any data with this? So I really struggled to find a direct one to one, but there was a couple small studies looking at breast breast milk production, through the elevation of oxytocin. And this particular study showed that the combination of two different polyphenols, one of them being reservatrol, increased milk production through oxytocin release. So that was one of the only times that actually found that polyphenols directly increased oxytocin. And they were looking at it to try and stimulate more milk production. Okay, and then there was one randomized trial on delivery. And they were looking at, interestingly enough deal extract and its effect on oxytocin. And they showed that it actually showed a randomized trial where when you added the dill extract, which is a polyphenol, then it improved the delivery process. So smooth muscle contract, contractility, etc. And then I found this one, which is a little bit interesting, it makes a little bit more sense. Because we know this, we say this all the time. This article comes from the journal of probiotics and health, microbes, oxytocin, and healthful longevity. In this particular tastes, they showed how our microbiome interacts and through decreasing what they believe are different inflammatory mediators. We know that Do it has a direct effect through the vagal nerve directly on the hypothalamus to oxytocin levels. So, all of this is kind of extrapolating Dr. Carter does most of her work on these voles and amazing on family units and stuff, that one right there that nobody's really looking into as do these polyphenols also have an effect on the oxytocin level couple small studies, but we do know that these polyphenols increase the microbial diversity. So the reason why I said take out Ron teal and give somebody a hug, is because we know that the polyphenols, stable large molecular polyphenols, increase the microbial diversity. And we know when you have that, that a lot of other beneficial things happen. These guys in this paper showed a direct vagal mediated oxytocin response, meaning the vagus nerve, the great highway is a motility thing, we keep circling back to the same things. So other than make sure that you do the usual stuff that was talking about get some good sleep. I believe that polyphenols probably increase x increase oxytocin levels. And we know that at least in a couple small studies, that you can increase oxytocin through several different smaller polyphenols. And then this final one was that if your microbiome is diverse, you will produce more oxy tosun. That's really cool. That's really nice. Here's what's the best. It's called the cuddle hormone for a reason.
Eric Rieger 36:39
Now, hugs
Ken Brown 36:40
let's quit being so sciency get our accion. Oh, no, no, don't I actually googled that. And I started to type in how to increase oxy. And it was like cotton levels were to get. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Eric Rieger 36:57
no. Yeah, yeah, you don't you don't want that of your teenager how to increase your oxy acne wipes, you know, so.
Ken Brown 37:07
But it's kind of interesting, because you because you, you look at these little voles, and you realize it's probably, the more the more that you love and share, the more that you open up, the more that you allow your body to increase the oxytocin receptors, so that they can be saturated more, and you're getting away from that sympathetic response. So what's your favorite way to raise your oxytocin?
Eric Rieger 37:30
Ah, man, I can tell you right now a hug from a from wife and or family member friend. And any of that it sounds to me would be the most fun way. And then favorite way to to raise my own oxytocin. Alright,
Ken Brown 37:46
so there's lots of ways to raise your oxytocin. And this is a this is a quiz for you.
Eric Rieger 37:53
Oh, no.
Ken Brown 37:54
Yeah. So we know that exercise raises oxytocin. Okay. We know that listening with your eyes, meaning real eye contact with somebody can increase your oxytocin being intimate with someone will increase your oxytocin. Okay. And basically, the whole cuddle aspect is there. So if you can incorporate all those different things, is there one particular act that would really knock the socks out of the oxytocin ballpark? If you could exercise be intimate? be close with somebody share a moment? Oh, oh.
Eric Rieger 38:37
Probably, man. It's rolling dice here. All those are things that hopefully everyone's getting the opportunity to do daily. I would say getting close to somebody would be the one that raises the most, maybe
Ken Brown 38:50
you and I think differently.
Eric Rieger 38:55
I guess you're about to break out a barbell not really sure.
Ken Brown 38:57
No.
Eric Rieger 38:58
Okay.
Ken Brown 38:59
Exercise, being intimate. Being close. Having human contact. sex. Sex is amazing for raising oxytocin. So
Eric Rieger 39:08
Oh, yeah, no, I mean, um, maybe, maybe. You're what? Maybe I was getting too g rated.
Ken Brown 39:17
I'm just saying that, that do not underestimate the power that that being intimate with a close partner. A company accomplishes all those things at the same time.
Eric Rieger 39:26
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I get it.
Ken Brown 39:29
You say another way. Another way to increase oxytocin is to have an orgasm. So okay, having but you know, but they've also shown that by having a close intimate partner, the oxytocin goes up much higher. Your body knows you can't fake it, you know? Sure. It's so that's so alright. So, exercise, social gatherings. Listen with your eyes, have sex. Oh, give a gift. being generous will actually bump your oxytocin
Eric Rieger 40:00
Interesting now that that actually is is is awesome. So sorry but I guess the the noble rewards in life tend to tend to be associated with doing good deeds right? Because you share love with someone and that's so good deed you're letting them know that you care about them you you know you foster your relationships with with your friends then that that's that's a good deed you're helping them out. So yeah, I mean to me it makes sense. Yeah, it's funny you didn't you didn't mention that, that using businesses as a reason to screw somebody over increases oxytocin. You didn't mention that theft or isolation increases oxytocin, it's all of the it's all of the opposite things that we all say that we want to do for Yeah,
Ken Brown 40:48
so next time you're in traffic and somebody kind of a jerk and cuts you off. Don't just sit there and get super upset. Just go, oh, that person's oxytocin is low. They're not doing the things to cultivate their oxytocin levels.
Eric Rieger 41:01
Yeah, put your car in park and then look at them and listen with your eyes.
Ken Brown 41:04
Yeah, listen with your eyes.
Eric Rieger 41:10
Maybe not. That may not be the right.
Ken Brown 41:12
Yeah, maybe that's not the right way. You could also I had to laugh. So a deal I was I was talking to her deal yesterday, my, my, my wonderful Scheduler. And I was trying to describe what I want to talk about today. And I was like, hey, do you know that like, heading a dog has been shown to increase oxytocin levels? And what about a cat? I have a cat and I was like, No, no, never.
Eric Rieger 41:35
Not a cat.
Ken Brown 41:36
No. Only dogs. I think cats also i'm not sure the study was done on dogs. So it just got me thinking I'm like, Okay, look, we're in this COVID environment. There's so many things against us. And yet we have a few things under our control. So listening to music, playing music can also raise that but waking up every day and saying, Okay, I'm going to try and figure out how to raise my oxytocin, which means that I'm going to try engage with somebody a little bit more, which means that I'm gonna try and take care of myself a little bit more if I'm going to be easier on myself. Because when you're hard on yourself, you raise your vasopressin level, which decreases your oxytocin. So give yourself a break. If anything, do it for your intestinal motility. Say, I'm, I'm going to make a concerted effort to which is why I said at the very beginning of the show, I'm trying to call mom more because we need to keep each other's oxytocin up, but you know, she lives alone. And I want to make sure that, you know, she's able to keep that oxytocin up. So this is a this is the vole hole called How to Increase your oxytocin kind of out of left field, I started down a motility path and we're going to come full circle because once we start really hitting that motility, this may become standard of care for a gastroenterologist to help patients.
Eric Rieger 42:56
I mean, kind of a cool intersection now, I mean, we do a lot of things whenever people come through and use everything from diet to behavior to recommend exercise, why not just start saying be sure that you give a hug to your family members everyday or a close friend every day? Yeah,
Ken Brown 43:13
and that's the problem is that we're in COVID. So that was one of my theories, that the isolation could be controlled Yeah, massive increase in depression, no doubt.
Eric Rieger 43:25
No doubt at all.
Ken Brown 43:27
got me thinking. So I would like to check oxytocin levels on you guys that do jujitsu because there's there's lots of hard cuddling going on during jujitsu if you call it cuddling, choking someone, for instance, which I think has kind of a has an oxytocin bump, but also a vasopressin fight or flight going on. I'm wondering if jujitsu people I'd need to check with Ricardo Abreu and see we just need to monitor his oxytocin levels as he's as he's smashing people
Eric Rieger 44:04
as he is if he uses the same tone as he aggressively went after you as a polyp. I don't know that I want to help him raise his oxytocin levels.
Ken Brown 44:14
Yeah, that's true. Maybe it's Yeah, maybe it's low. So um, you know, we we keep coming back to the same thing we keep coming back to intestinal health is the root cause of all health. And now we're finding these different things that are really subtle that we can do in a holistic approach. You can increase your NRF two levels by doing certain things, you can increase your oxytocin. And all of this will play into the immune mediated aspect. I start thinking of people that are diagnosed with a pretty serious, you know, chronic situation, and it's depressing and it's sad and they're maybe in pain and all that just keeps lowering that oxytocin. If you could just get that back up. Maybe it'll break the cycle and you could start on a road to recovery.
Eric Rieger 45:01
Yeah, I don't know, either. But it would make sense. I mean, maybe having people isolated in a hospital, for instance, especially during COVID where we're not allowing people in there is actually stunting their ability to overcome disease. I mean, think about that when how many people and stories have we heard of firsthand so and so had to go in for surgery, we don't really know how they're doing that but they call and said that they're just going out of their mind you're stuck there and it's taking longer for them to to be released from the hospital. I mean, it could have a profound effect as we're trying to stem the the the spread of the virus, but at the same time, we're not allowing other people to heal. You know, at the rate that they should, I don't know, it's it's pandemics present lots and lots of problems that are
Ken Brown 45:49
not been trying to figure out there. There used to be there was a gastroenterologist in my community that when he retired, he, he loved dogs. And so he had like these show dogs, he would bring them as animals and just allow patients to pet the dogs. Yeah. And now I look back, I'm like, wow, I'm like, let's take it up a notch. I mean, if we know that these prairie voles really raise their artsy tosun levels, then maybe we should have some variables and just like let them bite people and just inject the oxytocin and I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to talk to Dr. Carter about that one. I'm not really sure that's gonna work. Yeah, you just made oxytocin a venom. So the hard part is you got to get the prairie voles super happy and comfortable, then you gotta piss it off enough to bite your
Eric Rieger 46:35
budget. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, I don't I don't think that's the avenue but that's okay.
Ken Brown 46:41
And I do believe that they have the full science on the half life of it also. So it's not like it happens. And then unlike the NRF, two pathway that stays elevated for some time, the oxytocin is much like an Endocannabinoid like, like an amide. It comes out and it works and it comes back. And it just is as needed when it comes. So what I'm saying is you got to get that parallel the prairie vole to bite you really quick, because I think the half life is only like 30 minutes. It's gonna be hard.
Eric Rieger 47:10
Yeah, I it's, it's going to be hard to, to prove to even see your ideas worth anything. You know, I don't know.
Ken Brown 47:19
What we're doing here laughing a little bit that's raising our oxytocin also. So even if just at least make some jokes about prairie voles, and maybe that'll raise your
Eric Rieger 47:28
venomous prairie voles. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of jokes in there. But yeah, that would be weird and strange. But, yeah, maybe you'll get happy out of it, too.
Ken Brown 47:40
So that's the vole hole I went down. So can you summarize all this for me really quick, because I realized I was kind of all over the map on this one. But that's not I think it all
Eric Rieger 47:48
over the map at all. I mean, he just gave more reinforcing evidence that the fact is, is that can paint the reason why we don't like being isolated is because we're not supposed to be but one of the many reasons that a pandemic really stinks and, and not being able to see your friends why people are longing to get back and seeing their families because we're meant to be social. So when it's safe, and you can figure it out, by all means be as social as possible. Find the people that you care about the most embrace them, tell them that you hug them, it's it's not just enough to see them on camera, it's not just enough to, to just hear them on the phone. You You really want to go embrace and hug and let somebody else know. And then I like the other one, too, listening. Look at someone hear them. That's one of the most empathetic things that you can do for someone is just be quiet, don't talk over them. And let them voice whatever is on their mind, happy, sad or indifferent. And it's actually going to work to your benefit to do it. kind of crazy.
Ken Brown 48:53
Are you actually talking about oxytocin or the fact that I do interrupt all the time, and this is just a polite way to tell me to just listen,
Eric Rieger 48:59
so you didn't do it? Right. You're supposed to sit there and just keep staring in one of these days. I'm just kidding. Yeah, now? I do. I do think it's kind of cool. There's a lot of lessons in there if you just want to be happy and healthy. Scott Golden Rule stuff, treat people as you want to be treated. You want to be hugged, give you you need a little help do some charity. Yeah, it's it's, it will all work to your benefit. Well,
Ken Brown 49:19
we know that giving a gift works. We know that improving your microbiome works. So your sign behind you your bloating relief, it's what we do. I'll try until what you should do is buy a bunch of Tron to and give it away as a gift and hug that person. And then you're going to bump your oxytocin way up and you're going to help that person bump their oxytocin.
Eric Rieger 49:42
I don't see how you can go wrong with that. You can't
Ken Brown 49:44
go wrong with that. Give Atrantil and give a hug. That's awesome.
Eric Rieger 49:50
Yeah, that's a much better summary summary than what I was working towards.
Ken Brown 49:54
Now, I didn't have time to look into how the endocannabinoid system plays with oxytocin but you know, that's tied And also, because this is all this just shows how complex humans are tied in, we'll eventually get to how improving your endocannabinoid system. But it seems like everything that improves everything that I just said for oxytocin actually decreases the sympathetic response, we get back to the same thing over and over and over again, inflammation creates disease, inflammation does is the root cause of the disease process. When you have inflammation, your NRF two pathway goes down and your oxytocin goes down. So you at least need to take the reins, stop some of the inflammation through a proper diet, eating polyphenols, taking a proper CBD to improve your endocannabinoid system, and then maybe your body will adjust by rising these other systems, these other molecular processes.
Eric Rieger 50:49
Yeah, oxytocin, ultimately, not just a pregnancy hormone or peptide. It's quite important for us throughout our entire existence. So unfortunately, I mean, we mostly in the medical community, at least allopathic Lee only talk about oxytocin as it applies to the maternity ward. So way more important than that,
Ken Brown 51:10
it's way more important to that. And you know, that we really can't have animals in the endoscopy suite. But I'm gonna ask a small favor since your hair is really grown out. Okay. I think we should let stressed out patients just pet your head as they're waiting to go back for their colonoscopy.
Eric Rieger 51:24
Yeah, day after hand sanitizer, I guess. Again,
Ken Brown 51:29
or somebody that's super stressed out here. Would you mind letting them pay?
Eric Rieger 51:34
As long as I don't have to lay down and kick my leg several times across?
Ken Brown 51:40
Well, that's awesome. Yeah. oxytocin, we just keep throwing curveballs at you.
Eric Rieger 51:44
Yeah, well, hey, listen. For the listeners out there. I think that we keep hitting hinting at it but pretty soon we need to dedicate a series or a show to the vagus nerve and we have actively been looking and talking to a few different people will have a vagal nerve expert on here pretty soon and I'm excited about it. It really ties into exactly what Ken is talking about with oxytocin and everything that we can do to help out our parasympathetic nervous system which is the relax the love the feel the the rest and digest mode, I guess, if you will, for our bodies. Yes, it's quite a bit I think
Ken Brown 52:26
we're gonna end up so we're gonna let Angie run point on this because she has done so much research on the dysautonomia, which is the the dysregulation of your neurologic processes in relation to different organ systems. And that's the whole Potts, maules, cebo relation, Ehlers Danlos, and all these other things. So we'd start with that. But I think if we can figure out the motility aspect, it helps so many people, it's all it's all connected. And it's an it's almost like you can't just do the one thing, you can't just, it's like you got to do it all. You got to get socialized, and you got to feel good about yourself, you got to be happy or try to be happy. Anyway, that works for you meditate, everything start working on that, though, you will start losing weight, then we can start the healing the gut it all, it's all coming together. And if we could develop some sort of really nice rationale why people are having issues they are. And I think that alone helps people to start on the road to recovery. Because just being told it's all in your head is doesn't cut it.
Eric Rieger 53:43
No, not at all. Not at all. Well, Ken, I think that the instructions are hopefully clear. Go hug somebody. Go hug somebody.
Ken Brown 53:53
Yeah, so as always, this is a medical show, but I'm not giving medical advice. I'm a medical doctor Eric delivers anesthesia for a living. But just speak with your doctor. If we said anything that looks like you need to question it, but we're in social isolation. So don't randomly go up and hug people. But you can certainly you can certainly improve your oxytocin by sharing this episode, possibly liking this episode that will increase your oxytocin level.
Eric Rieger 54:24
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I can share I can share. This is obviously code file installation number 11. I'm Eric Rieger here with the awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. Thank you all for the continued email and shares that we get. I don't know. I'm amazed every single week that we have more and more people who write in and say, Hello, thanks for doing the show. So as long as we get those will, will keep meeting up and hopefully we're we're covering topics that they interest you
Ken Brown 54:53
know, I want to send it when we send this email out to let people know that we've published this I'm going to send a virtual hug know what virtual hugs Come on back at us just just take just just just take a little video of you just hugging.
Eric Rieger 55:04
Oh, yeah, yeah, hugging. Oh and quick shout out to Sheila Unger, she she actually you asked about the family earlier she sent a a free complimentary sample of a Texas Tech face covering out the gauge. That's awesome. Cool. Yeah, awesome.
Ken Brown 55:23
So they're right there. She raised her oxytocin level he did
Eric Rieger 55:26
that was that wasn't a charitable gift. Absolutely. Okay. I think that's gonna do it for this episode. We will see you all next time. Stay safe. Give a hug. Listen to people. And don't forget to like and share and we'll talk to you all soon. Right on
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Eric Rieger 0:00
Hello gut check project fans and KB MD health family. Thank you so much for joining us. This is episode number 41. I'm Eric rigger here with my co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. How
Ken Brown 0:11
are you doing Dr. Brown? I'm doing great, Eric. Episode 41. We're back to check project we kind of dabble between COVID this one is not it's not a COVID episode. This one's gonna be a very informative episode. And it might not be the most lighthearted topic. It might not be something but it's going to save lives. So I want anyone who's listening to this to realize what we're going to talk about is something that's pertinent in the in the media right now, and we're going to help people and that's a little teaser.
Eric Rieger 0:44
Well, so a couple weeks ago, what prompted where we are today is Chadwick boseman. Young man actor. He succumbed to colon cancer now. He has a different story that talks about how he kept it under wraps and really No one knew that he was sick and he battled this issue after being diagnosed with stage three colon cancer. He dealt with it for four years. And really it's kind of remarkable how he just wanted to go on living a normal life and and you know, Godspeed to to him and his family. What a what a hard thing to do but what a soldier he was for him and his family to carry on and try to live a very normal life. But really what it did for me being that I'm I'll turn 45 this year. It made me look at myself and my friends and just be reminded that young and younger people are being diagnosed with colorectal cancer. And it's happening at a large clip far more frequently than it did decades ago. And we'll use and I think that you will also will use around 1990 ish is kind of a marker or delineation of when things started to change in these trends. But why don't you tell me Can what you think whenever you've begun to notice the trend of younger and younger adults showing up for colonoscopies and we've, we've, we've found cancer, we found cancer together with some of our own patients.
Ken Brown 2:18
You know, you and I were talking about this and All right, so first of all, Chadwick boseman. I think one of the things about his very tragic death is what a badass. Okay? This is a guy that can act at a level that very few can get to. This is a guy that I mean, the the movies he's been in the people he's portrayed, he's been amazing and then to find out later that he was actually dealing with some of the stuff while it was going on. Absolute badass and leisure. While he was essentially dying. He was doing charitable work going out meeting with children. We're dying and everything and never once was like, Hey, this is what I'm doing. This all came out after his death. That is so amazing. And you and I were talking and I'm like, Oh my god, I did this article came out this article came out and you told me you're like, Hey, I was listening to the radio. And they were talking about Chadwick. And I really feel like he was a gastroenterologists and me as somebody that puts these people to sleep. We have to do this. And I was like, Yeah, but everybody was doing it. And you're like, No, we just need to do this because it's there. And now when I sit there and look back at how I have been trying to fight colon cancer, I'm like, wow, one of the greatest people that could move this topic that we're going to talk about, which is why in the world that a 43 year old man died of colon cancer. I want to give a why to that. Yeah, we're going to talk about today
Eric Rieger 3:58
without questions. So it's there's really no right way to set the table here. And so forgive us here on the show if we kind of jump at different ways on how to approach this issue or colorectal cancer has been appearing far more frequently in the last two and a half decades for younger people and by younger people. It's not or it wasn't, it wasn't normal for people to have colorectal cancer before the age of 40 at all. And and now, we've seen in the last few years where the screening age has moved basically for all insurance carriers from 50 down to 45. And this is to basically capture those who need preventative intervention before it's too late. And go ahead.
Ken Brown 4:44
Oh, no, I was just gonna say that's exactly it. You and I live this world. We talk it all the time. And now because a super likable, lovable person that was taken before his time brings light to something You and I talk about every single day, we screen people young, we find young cancers. So for me, it's like, that's, it's horrible that that happened. But we want to prevent it. And that's what this show is about. It's about finding the science, it's about talking about it. And maybe even if just one person sends their child to go get screened sooner, even if just one person listen to this, says, you know, what I've been ignoring the symptoms of my stool looks a little different, meaning it's narrow, possibly, there's little bit of blood on the toilet paper, possibly, there's something else well, then everything that we do is worth it because we have one person to go ask their doctor and say, I want to make a change. Chadwick boseman, was a tragic death. But the problem is, is that this is a trend of a growing number of people below the age of 50, who are developing colon cancer, and he had stage four colon cancer. This is horrific, it's horrible. And as two people that prevent this cancer. It's, it's, it's a timing thing. And that's what this is about.
Eric Rieger 6:08
No question and this isn't isolated and he's not even remotely the first high profile person to die at a young age from colon cancer. If we all know who Katie Couric is her husband, James Monaghan, he died at the age of 42. In fact, I think the the GI Center in New York affiliate with the Presbyterian Hospital, there's actually named for him cheap, donated quite a bit of money to help them advance the research not only for colorectal cancer, but to start the trend of people starting to detect it earlier. So honestly, kudos to Katie Couric and and the foresight that she saw that my husband should not have died from this and he shouldn't have. We just didn't know that someone is at that age at the age of 42. Back then, which has been over 20 years ago. Yeah, that could have that could have happened. So let's get down to some of the many different things that maybe could contribute to why someone wouldn't go get checked, I'm going to leave the science part of discovering the colon cancer to you. But as someone who's 44, what are some of the reasons why someone might not go when they should go. And we'll get to the symptoms a little bit, but there's just some, some normal or abnormal things that have had have occurred over the last few years that may be contributing. Our sources of food have continuously changed quite a bit as a person who was born in the 70s. And a kid of the 80s best food was normal in learning about GMOs. Who knows no one's really made all of the connections and of course, there's a lobby that wants is more or less to somewhat ignore some of the things that could be the the key factors to allow Our body to grow these tumors etc. So, there's no doubt though, that if you were to compare my childhood with my parents who their generation does not have a high incidence of colorectal cancer, when they were in their 40s, there's obviously some type of environmental change, somehow. And I would say that food may have played a part and then there's some other things. One would be males. Traditionally, males just don't go to the doctor when there's signs and symptoms that should be sending them there. I mean, we know that here with with artron to our biggest purchasers of artron. teal, are women. Even if it's for the men in their lives, they actually are the ones who purchase are drawn to more often because they recognize the symptoms and they know that something number one should be done about it. And number two, we'll do the investigation to find out what can be done. It's just it's just facts, but something else that happened was really, really eye catching and a lot went back to that radio program that we were listening to.
Ken Brown 9:04
Yeah, so let me just stop right there because this actually started it. Tell me about the station you listen to and what they were talking about you showed up to work. So one of the beauty I was gonna say one of the beauties I should be one of the beautiful things that happens with you and I work together in one job where we take care of patients and we work together another job, but we've got this business, right, we're helping improve longevity, health, anti aging, all this stuff without trying to but when you showed up that day, you're like, hey, on the and I'll just let you run with it. Because when you start talking about it, I went,
Eric Rieger 9:42
Wow, that's cool. So I often hear in DFW Dallas Fort Worth, I listen quite often to the ticket. It's a long time standing sports radio station. However, if you're passing through if you've never listened to before, it's quite common that it's really just guy talk and They of course have Yeah, they they have sports that they feature on there but for for I would say most of the programming it's really just funny stuff that guys find funny and or interesting. But on my drive in sounds like cast. Yeah. does sound a lot like our podcast
Ken Brown 10:22
but on my drive into work they make fun of my vlogs a little on their on the ticket because we do that occasionally.
Eric Rieger 10:28
Yeah. Mike if they knew you, you know they would so or if they covered jujitsu, they could probably have have Mike on there. I've got a story
Ken Brown 10:35
about that related to this. So yeah, I'm gonna we're gonna tie all this in. It's all coming in. It's all gonna come
Eric Rieger 10:41
together. A lot of loose strings here, folks, but we're going to pull this together I promise. So all my drive into work. Then users, which is the early morning program, Jr. Miller, who's one of the hosts happened to be reading about how blown away he was. A Chadwick boseman his demise and he is One who has openly expressed that he's dealt with various digestive issues. He's a super athlete. He's a cyclist, a long distance runner has been for years very, very, very fit. But he has always been very, very in tune with what he perceives his body does best with diet, sleep, exercise, etc. Well, he began to read through a few different stats and statistics and most of them weren't that surprising about the mail about the changing in our food, but one of them was just in arguably, it's like, we've got to do something different here. We've got to tell people to go and get help. What he mentioned was a study that they had done over thousands of different patients on the average time from the symptoms. So that could be bloody stool or diarrhea, change in bowel habits, etc. And I'll let cannot let you get to that in a moment. But when the onset of symptoms First occur to the time of diagnosis. They used a marker at the age of 50. So if you were younger than 50, the time from the first onset of a symptom to the day of diagnosis was roughly 217 days. So let's just say that on the first day, there was a there was blood in the stool. It's on average, which means some people go much, much longer, on average, 217 days for someone under the age of 50, to go and see a doctor, then be diagnosed that they actually have colorectal cancer. Now, just compare and contrast that to 50 and above. It's just under 30 days, it's like 29 point something days. That amount of time is critical. It's almost one full or it's almost one or 10 times The amount of days over it's like roughly eight point something times. And in that amount of time cancer is that's just allowing cancer to go and recruit more cells and area for to continually grow and become far more cumbersome and unfortunately spread. That's when it becomes dangerous. So when I've told you that number, I can remember you looking at me this was just a weekend half ago, two weeks ago, looking at me saying, Wait, what did you say? And I said, they just said it. That's what's on my mind. 217 days versus 29. That's, that's really life and death. And it's just an amount of time where people didn't take the symptoms seriously enough to go and seek help from the right person. And then the next thing What if they did go and see a doctor? And what if they didn't happen to go to a gastroenterologist right away, but now you've got a smaller caveat that still some people Certainly don't mean any harm, but it's just not normal for someone to show up at the age of 34 or 29 stained, they've got blood and stool. Oh, we had a small interruption there regardless. So, in essence what we have are these people are young adults, and they have been ignoring symptoms, but now they've gone to go and find someone to help them. There's another caveat here. Sometimes the person they go to may not be a gastroenterologist and is probably just not used to seeing someone who is young, having cancer. So oftentimes, when a young person goes, What's contributing to that high number that 217 days, they may go to a doctor and say, I've experienced some rectal bleeding. I think I've seen some blood in his stool. Not always, but sometimes Someone may say, Well, you're 29 you're, you're 33 it's just not normal for someone your age to have cancer. Let's see if this resolves. Let's, you know, check a blood level to make certain that you're not anemic, etc. But it's just one more small thing that will delay diagnosis. And that's the problem. And can you know this if it's, if it's going to be more time, unfortunately, it's just more time for the cancer to take hold and be more difficult to combat.
Ken Brown 15:21
Alright, so you're exactly right. And this just shows that sharing information. You heard this on a radio station into work to work with me, right? We talked about it, we're like, oh my gosh, so I started looking into this. And it's estimated that 12% of all colon cancers will be in people younger than age 50.
Eric Rieger 15:40
Wow.
Ken Brown 15:41
Age 50 has been the screening recommendation. For many years, the screening recommendation, spoiler alert has now been moved to 45. And so we'll get into all of that later. But the most important thing for me is that that means that 18,000 people will end up with colon cancer below. The age of 50 this year that may ignore symptoms. And when we talk about different races, unfortunately, African Americans are at a 20% higher risk,
Eric Rieger 16:14
correct
Ken Brown 16:14
into a lot of different things about health care, availability, about different things like that. But this is our job is to prevent that. And then now there's studies showing that younger people have much more aggressive cancer also much more aggressive cancer with a worse prognosis. A survey was published in 2019 that found that 67% of colon cancer patients saw at least two doctors, many saw four doctors before a colonoscopy was recommended. So everything that you're saying is totally backed by science. Patients will often ignore the symptoms as well, as the doctors will downplay the symptoms that were reassurance which Generally, is the way I was taught. But now we're seeing the shift. Now we realize the youngest person I've ever diagnosed with colon cancer was 19, the oldest person was 89, where it was treated, meaning we treated it and cured it.
Eric Rieger 17:16
Right?
Ken Brown 17:17
So I have a 19 year old kid with rectal bleeding. And I said, Hey, we should just take a look anyways, found rectal cancer, and 89 year old, I was like, we really shouldn't do this at your age. But,
Eric Rieger 17:29
and let's highlight something really quick. You don't traditionally see anybody who's under 18. So the margin of how low that could even go for you is one year. So you've basically hit the entire span of your patient population that you routinely See, which is thousands of patients a year. You basically seen colon cancer as young as they come. And it should be alarming.
Ken Brown 17:54
It's it's super alarming because think about this now for if you're an individual is what it is. If you're a healthcare provider if you're an insurance provider, oh yeah, you're part of the healthcare system if this trend continues by 2030, so nine years from now, we're going to end up or 10 years from now, but somehow had 2021 of my I'm just trying to get rid of 2020 so fast, I just done with it,
Eric Rieger 18:31
understand and do.
Ken Brown 18:33
So, in 2030 32% of all colorectal cancers diagnosed will be in people younger than age 50. If we allow this to continue, now, if we allow this to continue now, three years ago, do you remember that when Ricardo Brey so Ricardo Brey was a good friend, he has a jujitsu gym, he's a he's a world champion in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I was so taken Backed by a study that was published in 2017, that showed for the first time ever, a younger generation was developing cancer in higher proportions than their parents. And so Millennials are having more colorectal cancer than their parents. that's never been seen before in any other generation. I went so far as to bring Jiu Jitsu mats and we brought Ricardo Brio. I encourage everybody to go to my YouTube page, Kenneth brown MD, where you can see Ricardo basically kicked my ass in the name of colon cancer, which is if if you're watching it, he throws me around like I'm like, like 90 pounds. At that time. I think I was 215 I mean, I'm 215 now so I was a little bit thicker. I was like, stronger back then I was working out more because COVID got in the way of things, but I was solid 215 220 back then, and he picked me up like I'm nothing. That's what we want to do. We want to cut out polyps like they're nothing so that people do not develop any type of cancer and that's what something like this so if you're bored even if you don't enjoy talking about colon cancer you can see me get my ass kicked by Ricardo so
Eric Rieger 20:10
well and it was it was a it was a fun taping and I love the way that that Ricardo was screaming out and not calling you can or Dr. Brown I just kept calling you polyp as he was chasing
Ken Brown 20:20
you. Yes. kept calling me polyp. So you're exactly right you show up listening to this very unfortunate Chadwick boseman passed away of stage four colon cancer, our job, literally Our job is to prevent this. That's what we do every single day.
Eric Rieger 20:39
And and just to put it into context, it's not your exactly run about the more aggressive nature because sometimes in some instances, some people may say that, well, there's an increase in cancer but but not so much death if this is not the case. There is a belief set from the American Cancer Society there's a 51% Increase, and young cancer patients under the age of 50. Since only 1994, it's only 26 years ago. And knowing that the death rates in this group are also rising death rate meaning more good notes with cancer ended up dying than those who are but a per per person per diagnosis are dying versus those who are diagnosed in the pool 15 above. So much of that is just timing. They are more aggressive. So it's just that much more important that we figure out the first onset symptom to go to someone who will be aggressive and making certain that you don't have something more sinister or serious than
Ken Brown 21:48
I can believe it's up to you. So the people that have attention deficit disorder and want to get off, what are the symptoms they should look for and if you have any of these symptoms, just talk to your doctor. I heard a podcast where even if your doctor says Don't worry about it, I'm gonna worry about it send me to a gastroenterologist. What
Eric Rieger 22:06
are those symptoms? No, it's always going to be blood in the stool. And that could be a dark Tari stool out of out of nowhere and sometimes honestly, they kind of steak bleeding from in and around the rectum. So bright red blood on the toilet paper or in the air or in the stool, definitely, and abdominal cramping. So sometimes if in Tell me if that's wrong, but I think sometimes when we've had folks they've had kind of unrelenting cramping and they don't know how to describe it. And I've often seen you start with them before they are before we actually do the procedure and try to get them to kind of localize it or show you where it is. So abdominal
Ken Brown 22:47
discomfort is is something so bleeding, abdominal discomfort, and talk about the stool. ribbon stools is what I'm getting at
Eric Rieger 22:54
here. Yeah, ribbon stools, and basically it's basically a change in the shape of the stool. itself because it will come out kind of flattened or something like that it's mechanical, it means there's a polyp or something causing an obstruction and pushing on it.
Ken Brown 23:09
And then if you're a family reunion and you bump into aunt Betsy, who says, Yeah, just had like colon cancer removed.
Eric Rieger 23:17
Yeah, if you've got a family member, and no more than two removed, you definitely want to be checked out and early. Don't wait.
Ken Brown 23:25
So these are all Googleable, but this podcast is about trying to figure out the next level. So the question is why. So the study that was done in 2017, the authors of the study, you know, the the main finding was that millennials have higher incidence of colon cancer than their parents. Their conclusion was, we don't understand why.
Eric Rieger 23:46
Sure.
Ken Brown 23:47
So I started looking at this when you said that about listened to the ticket. So why, and I started thinking you said at the beginning of this show, our diets have changed, things have happened, whatever. So Let's talk about that. Okay, let's talk about possibly why. Now, this is not my research. This is me looking at other scientists that have done this. But as we always do, if it makes clinical sense, and physiologically I see it that the body can do this. And then anecdotally, I see it in my practice, I feel very strongly that these kind of things correlate. So even if somebody says, well, there's no large randomized placebo controlled trial on this, and that, if it makes sense, and we see it on a day to day basis, if I had the time, I would publish the two together. And that's what we're doing right now. This is a unpublished study in the form of a podcast, where we get to look at your beautiful hair while we do
Eric Rieger 24:53
I mean, debatable, depending on who you're asking. Alright,
Ken Brown 24:56
so you got me thinking about this. And so I started finding some different studies. And so I thought A study that really looked at younger people that ate high fat food and high carbohydrate food. So whenever we talk about the standard American diet, the sad diet, it's, it's it's the two together. It's not that one is bad or the other is bad. But somehow when you combined refined carbohydrates with poor fats, it's a it's a recipe for disaster. And that unfortunately, is what most of the food that is easily accessible for a lot of people. So high fat, high carb study in younger people showed something kind of interesting, significant dysbiosis meaning it affected their micro biome. So their micro biome.com got changed and became very narrow. On other podcasts. We talked about the microbial diversity, meaning you want to have a lot of different ones when you eat a high fat high carbohydrate refined diet, you narrow your microbiome, they linked this to causing obesity. In the original 2017 study, they tried to say that maybe it's obesity causing the cancer. And so the key is that the dysbiosis can alter an epigenetic phenomenon. And what that means is your microbiome can turn on genes in your body. Keep that in mind. So the microbiome is super important. And then I started thinking, well, is this just a US phenomenon? Found multiple studies in other countries where they're having increased risk of colon cancer as well with that? So this got me thinking. And at least there's a clue to all of this. If the microbiome plays a role, and we know that when you disrupt the microbiome, you epi genetically predisposed to forming pre cancerous lesions, right? polyps. So that's what you and I do for a living, we remove polyps and that effectively cures colon cancer. A really interesting study came out in 2019 in March where they looked at mice and you and I talked about this because I threw a fit that one day at the endo center where we offer sodas, pops or cokes depending on your vernacular and what part of the country you're at. If you're in the Midwest, I guess it's a pop sodas northeast coke South Georgia, Georgia southeast Yeah.
Eric Rieger 27:38
Oh, and just so y'all know, this is this is just water. This is Waterloo. Yeah.
Ken Brown 27:46
Yeah, I'm pretty. I'm pretty adamant. So if you're a parent and you're listening to this, pay very close attention to this part, because nobody's discussing why Millennials are having higher colon cancer and I'm trying to figure it out. One way The hint is it affects the microbiome. I'm not feeding your microbiome, the appropriate thing it predisposes you to polyps. Then using that logic, a group of scientists took mice that were knockout mice, meaning that they were predisposed to having polyps. And then what they did is they gave them the equivalent of one can of soda of high fructose corn syrup. So basically the amount of high fructose corn syrup and one can of soda, they get to the mice daily, not like a whole can to a mouse, the equivalent of a tiny little can to a mouse relative to what a human would drink if they drank a what, however many ounces how many ounces is that Waterloo, that you're in that eight? Well, thanks 12 Yeah, so 12 ounce can and so they figured out that polyps love high fructose corn syrup cancers And polyps then when I say polyps What I mean is early cancer. So that goes with all cancers, colon cancers, the thing we're talking about today, this goes with all cancers. Cancers love sugar, they love the fuel, they grow quicker than your other cells, they need that fuel. So these guys showed that when you give high fructose corn syrup, the rates of cancer and polyps was super high compared to those that did not get the high fructose corn syrup. And they even thought about the whole obesity thing. And they said, No, we're only going to give one can these mice will not become obese. We're just going to see what just the high fructose corn syrup does. And what they showed is that when you eat fructose, unlike glucose, glucose is imported into the cell through a glucose transporter frutos is passively absorbed. through what's called the glute five transport system. Why is that relevant? As it turns out, you can overwhelm the glute five transport system really easy. So if you're like, Ah, he's been too nerdy about this stuff. If you happen to be a triathlete or a marathon runner and you're on your run drinking guru trying to give yourself energy, because it was always shown that fructose can be absorbed quicker, and then you'd end up having diarrhea. After the second or third pack of this. You've overwhelmed your, your fruit dose absorption ability. problem is when you have high fructose corn syrup, which is a refined form of fructose, which is a whole separate discussion on how maybe that is the root cause of a lot of our, our metabolic syndrome probably. Yeah, so this blew my mind when You drink too much. And it's not very much at all. I'm talking less than a can a day. That fructose doesn't get absorbed. The high fructose corn syrup doesn't get absorbed and goes to your colon and digested where they showed. That's where polyps and cancers adapt. They love that stuff. And they say, bring it here, bring it here. I want that. And so now we bring the microbiome back in. Now we've got a microbiome that's being fed high fructose corn syrup, they start sending signals to the brain that says we want more of that. The polyp is like, Oh, yeah, we want more of that also. Oh, yeah. And these researchers showed that the that the fruit dose gets converted into a fatty acid that promotes tumor growth. In fact, it'll actually read wire the polyp to the point that it will prefer high fructose corn syrup. So if you are doing this on a regular basis, you're setting yourself up for a serious problem. They have shown that there's actually something called the Warburg effect. And the Warburg effect increases something called glycolysis, which leads to increase fatty acids in these tumors, which promotes metastasis. Remember, so metastatic disease is the spread of a spread of cancer. Yeah, spread of cancer. So it's the beginning of this. We're talking about a very young, incredible actor who developed colon cancer and then we said that it's more aggressive. And then the studies where they looked at it said, we don't know why. I don't know if they have Not looked at this yet. Is it possible that part of the standard American diet, which uses high fructose corn syrup, not just in sodas, oh, everywhere, every read, it's in freakin bread. If you open a package, you're getting high fructose corn syrup.
Eric Rieger 33:17
Yeah.
Ken Brown 33:18
So if you're a parent, and you're listening to this, for gosh sakes, don't allow your kids to have sodas, pops, coach, whatever it is, that is your vernacular. Stop that right now. Because what you're doing is you're allowing your, you're allowing your kids microbiome to change to want more of it, which then tells the polyps, they change, to preferentially metabolize that grow and spread. When we sit there and say that we're, it's Think of it as a parasite power In cancers are parasites, do you feed the parasite to allow it to grow? Or do you starve the parasite? So it goes away? We tend to feed these parasites that grow. And if somebody says, Oh, well, it's probably because the obesity which is the whole thing, everybody goes back to obesity. Oh, it's obesity must be because Americans are are overweight. There was a 2019 study that published that showed overweight obese teenagers had a depletion of beneficial bacteria. And they had dysbiosis. Yeah, I personally think as a gastroenterologist that what we're doing is we're self selecting bad bacteria narrowing the microbiome, and then that microbiome gives us clues to go out and have more of this. They send signals to your brain that says we want more sugar. The easiest quickest sugar to get is high fructose corn syrup. So It's kind of a trick because I'm sitting there, we started out talking about young people having colon cancer. And then the question was always, how does this happen? So, I truly believe that if you protect your microbiome, and you avoid some very simple things, and then you go, oh, when I start looking at labels, it's a whole lot harder than what it looks because if you're if you're OPG, if you're opening packages, you're getting high fructose corn syrup. And it's I just found it interesting because
Eric Rieger 35:35
it's sad. It's sad that it's that it's crept into our normal normal eating habits. I mean, it really really is and not we're not innocent in our house I I try in most cases we're successful with the boys that they don't consume it but you it's it's difficult and what's crazy is I think that my both of my sons incidence of consuming high fructose corn syrup is a fraction to probably their peers, but it doesn't really matter. And then you put it best when you said, should you feed the parasite or deny its ability to grow? And what's kind of crazy is that I think that even in the back of our minds, some people have justified allowing an action thinking, well, if there's ever a consequence, there'll be so much further down the road that things may be different at that point. This is the bell. People are getting cancer much earlier and is in a system that they never had it before. So things are different. If you have a child.
Ken Brown 36:41
I don't care how old that child is. And you look over right now and they're sticking a straw in a juicy box. They're cracking up a soda they're doing over grab that thing. Look and see if there is high fructose corn syrup in it. Because or even sugar, lots of sugar but the sugar is The kicker about the high fructose corn syrup is that they these guys figured out that what ends up happening is that the, the polyp in the tumor prefers it and they end up converting it quicker of these very detrimental molecules. You're better off doing straight sugar than y'all are doing high fructose corn syrup in regards to colon cancer in probably all cancers, because it Now the one thing that is really unique about this study is that if you overwhelm your body's ability to absorb it, then you're going to preferentially feed the colon polyps because it's going to go to your colon,
Eric Rieger 37:42
it's leftover you leftover. You can't use it, the cancer will love it. And make no mistake when at least the way that I've always understood tumor growth. It's it's growing. It's growing rapidly. It's it's a high metabolism set. Have cells which are doing all they can to grow and expand. And what they're also doing is creating more pathways for blood vessels to form called angiogenesis but blood vessels so that they can get their hands on free energy. Guess what high fructose corn syrup is? It's just free energy to them, and allow them to even grow faster, to grow bigger.
Ken Brown 38:25
And oh, it's not free energy. It's turbo. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's terrible. It's what they want. They're like, Yeah, let's do this. So if you happen to be African American, you have a higher risk. If you happen to have anybody in your family first or second degree generation that had polyps or colon cancer, it's higher risk. So if you're turning around right now and you had a colonoscopy, you're like, I'm fine. I'm 50. You look at your kids and you go, they're at higher risk. Holy cow. I had my colonoscopy. I'm a responsible adults. I'm 50 years old, had the colonoscopy, and I look over at my 15 year old I'm like, Oh, no. Wait a minute, they're at higher risk than I am. Yeah, this is nuts. We've never had this discussion with kids before.
Eric Rieger 39:07
No, No, we haven't. And and I'm do so by the end of the year I'm doing I'll be 45 I hit the new threshold. Thankfully, they've moved it back five years and I haven't had any symptoms that if I have I mean, guess what, I wouldn't be any different. I would have been someone who's ignored and not paid attention or, or something like that. But I don't believe that I've had a symptom yet. I haven't had a close family member yet. That's sad. But all that being said, I am keenly aware that my environment my food supply is honestly it's it was vastly different as a young person than what my parents had fast foods. and different things like high fructose corn syrup are far more abundant.
Ken Brown 39:55
What was the whole thing you were talking about the original Dr. Pepper that that one town in Texas we were just talking about?
Eric Rieger 39:59
Oh, Dublin. Yeah, Dublin, Texas had the, to my knowledge, the last location of where Dr. Pepper was still made with real sugar at least domestically, right? Yeah. And they produced it and Dr. Pepper ended up shutting them down I guess about six or seven years ago. And it was because they began to distribute what they called the Dublin Dr. Pepper to other retailers and they didn't want them to do that because essentially it was competing with with the the main source licensed bottlers. So Dublin still produces sugar containing sodas, but they don't use high fructose corn syrup. I don't drink sodas at all, so directly doesn't affect me, but I'm with you. If you're going to still consume sodas, number one, limit them but number two, try to find somebody who doesn't have high fructose corn syrup.
Ken Brown 40:56
I'm guilty of this in the sense that I don't drink sodas but if I But if i put a condiment on something, a hamburger or something I'm eating I don't I don't look at the label and go oh my gosh, then you start looking and they all got it. They all got it. They all got it like okay, just know every single time it's okay everything you know we get the back to the moderation thing but just know if you got a critter grown in ya, if you got a little parasite called a colon polyp, and you're doing that it's loving it and growing.
Eric Rieger 41:23
And definitely Oh, you know, it's gonna be I know what else inside knows some of your favorite brands. If you said comment on burger This is perfect. Some of America's favorite brands like Heinz ketchup, for instance, they've actually been listening. And it's not the biggest seller yet but even even it on the shelves of Walmart, they oftentimes will feature either organic or no high fructose corn syrup ketchup. So some of these brands really do want to help make the change that the truth is until more people buy them and consume them. They're not going to produce them. They are a company like anything else. They want to see the numbers. They want to see if it latches on. If it resonates with people and that thing, oftentimes people don't. They don't appreciate that there's a new choice out there and how important it is to be made aware of why there is a healthier option offered a job, because I'm like this.
Ken Brown 42:20
Yeah, let's just reiterate. let's just recap what just happened on this because I think generally you and I joke around a little bit more on this podcast, but this is not a joking matter. Now, you got a situation where a cancer a generation before is now having higher incidences of a cancer that we thought was an older person's cancer. Yeah. Why is that? Who knows? I believe that there is data to suggest that consuming certain foods affects that. One of those things could be high fructose corn syrup, and making sure that you have proper microbial diversity meaning feed your microbiome. what it wants with polyphenols, insoluble fibers, the stuff that we talk about every single show. Now we're talking about here's how to save not just your life, but the next generation,
Eric Rieger 43:15
your kids without question your kids. Well, what a, it. I'm glad that the ticket had this topic. This is something that we will probably even have to touch on again. But it's Make no mistake. It's always alarming when someone comes through and they're on their follow up colonoscopy with us because they've just beaten cancer and you look and their age and I'm thinking of someone in particular is only 26. It doesn't. It's It's It's not fair, but I'm glad that that person didn't ignore the signals from three years ago. And that person is more than likely and wasn't out of shape wasn't obese. You don't have to be obese. You don't have to do a lot of Things Oh, I think
Ken Brown 44:00
that's what I think that's what took everybody back with Chadwick. Yeah, this is a is a solid fit Dude, that got taken down by stage four colon cancer. And you know, it's part of our humanity to say, well, it's not going to be me but as a physician and you in healthcare that puts people to sleep, we see stuff and we just go it's it can happen to anybody. So why would you stack the deck against yourself when it's so easy to do a couple simple changes. So we're gonna do this. Just don't drink sodas. Please do me one favor, just don't drink sodas.
Eric Rieger 44:41
Challenge yourself, see how good your pantry see how many things may you go to throw everything out but be conscious of it whenever you go shopping again. I mean, it's it's, it's hard. I mean, it's not easy to go and tell everyone to turn over all of their their food inventory. But for The most part eating fresh vegetables and meat, it may sound boring, but there's there's a reason behind it. And yeah,
Ken Brown 45:05
yeah, you're for it. And so I had this argument with somebody who just woke up and post off of this week actually, we got the same discussion. And she, she said, Can I have my Can I have my diet Doc, Diet Coke, whatever. It doesn't matter what brand. I think it was Diet Coke. And then I was like, ah, just as bad. And that's another thing that people don't realize, remember when I was on my microbiome? Oh, yeah. now realize that people that drink diet soda. So if you're over here going, Oh, thank God, I don't have any of the regular stuff. Guess what the preservatives and the sugar sweeteners in there, you don't absorb your microbiome breaks it down. And you have a higher incidence of getting obese and having type two diabetes, if you do the fake stuff, so you're not getting out of the woods on that one either. Not only that
Eric Rieger 45:56
you actually and completely not even gi related diets. Is contribute to the imbalance of phosphorus and calcium in the body. You actually can it can induce early stage onset of osteoporosis. I mean, it's, it's not your friend, I don't know. Tell us to say it. It's it's not you're rolling the dice
Ken Brown 46:18
when we sat there talking about this if you were if you were submitting a diet soda to the FDA is a drug you're like, Ah, this drugs you know, they were rejected and say you're gonna cause more harm than good
Eric Rieger 46:30
unless their lobby was really strong. Well, hey, Ken has always certainly appreciate it. That's really all that we have for young people and colon cancer get. Don't ignore the symptoms. Again, those symptoms are blood and stool bleeding from the rectum the abdominal cramping. If you have a family member blood family member that has had colon cancer problems like that before
Ken Brown 46:54
or polyps or polyps.
Eric Rieger 46:56
Uh, yeah, polyps Thank you. Don't ignore it. Don't ignore It
Ken Brown 47:00
ranges to caliber abdominal discomfort if you have this it is your right to talk to your doctor about it and it's also your right to go I'm I would like this evaluated because peace of mind and Oh, totally forgot my colonoscopy is on YouTube we put it there so that you can see that it's not a big deal. So I would like to put to the audience there. How should we do Eric's colonoscopy? Should we fill it live? Should we do it with lubrication Should we do it with sedation? Let's uh you know, I see you as the David Blaine of colonoscopies where Yeah, well I'm gonna make a
Eric Rieger 47:40
I'm really glad that we talked about all of this stuff beforehand.
Ken Brown 47:44
I think that we could top David Blaine's little holding on to the balloon thing we could do it 15,000 feet possibly
Eric Rieger 47:54
chair that imagine will probably live streaming on some platforms. I'm not familiar with like Myspace. A Snapchat so we'll just see what happens.
Ken Brown 48:05
Regardless, I think I'm doing for my colonoscopy this year your do Dr. ackermans. Do a guest you know the, the Yeah, substitute co host. He's do we should have a colonoscopy Palooza someday where we just show. I mean, we both try to practice what we preach. And I try for the most part eating healthy, unfortunately. Oh my. Did we comment on my tie dye shirt here? Yeah,
Eric Rieger 48:31
not yet. But you is that does that done by the famous Carla
Ken Brown 48:35
as some of the famous Carla who also happens during COVID to becoming a badass Baker. And so I sit there and say that I practice what I preach, but when I come home from work, and she's like, Look, Bobby I made lemon bars and you know, it's your daughter offering it to you and you're like, Okay, I'll humor you and you're like, oh, they're so good.
Eric Rieger 48:54
is with real sugar
Ken Brown 48:57
with real sugar, which is also something that I try to actively avoid but when your sugary little daughter offers it to you and she worked hard at it, you'd it's hard to ignore. And then you're like, Oh, it's got a shirt. She's like, Can I tie it? And I was like, Yeah, whatever. I'll throw it out. I'm like, Oh, it looks awesome. I love it. I'm gonna wear
Eric Rieger 49:14
a Carla in your daughter should also know that you get comments every Friday that you wear those tie dye scrubs, everyone loves them. Those are awesome. Well, I think that'll do it. Please Like and Share. If you've got a younger family member that you just want them to be aware of this, send it to them, send them this video. Hopefully we can just get through to them. It just takes a little bit of time. They don't even have to watch the whole thing to start getting the gist of the information. But anyhow, so gut check project, Episode Number 41. Young people, unfortunately was showing up with colorectal cancer too. If you get symptoms, go get checked out like and share, check out our sponsors, Dr. Brown anything else?
Ken Brown 49:54
No, that's it. I just think that it's a I consider it an honor that you and I get The opportunity to save lives the way that we do I consider it an honor that we can be on a platform like this and tell people because once again, one person thinks of something and says, You know what, I'm gonna go ahead and do that, then it's all worth it.
Eric Rieger 50:14
Yep, absolutely. We'll see y'all next time. That was Episode 41. Take care.
Ken Brown 50:18
Take care.
Eric Rieger 0:00
Hello It is now time for the gut check project KBMD health fans and those at the Ken Brown clinic. I'm here with my guest host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. We've got an incredible special guest with us here today Dr. Tom O'Brien joins the show. Like and share of course, Dr. Brown once you take it away and introduce our awesome guests.
Ken Brown 0:19
Well, I'm so excited because Dr. Tom, you and I have been running in similar circles. And every time I bump into somebody including different lab companies, including different mindshare people, everybody's like, Hey, you and Dr. Tom need to hang out. I'm like, I keep missing him. I'll go on a summit and he'll be like before me or after me. And then I'm just like, Oh, this is awesome. So we finally got you, wrangled in, you've got so much stuff going on. You're an author, you're a doctor, you obviously do some incredible deep dives. And what I love about you is everything that I've seen you on a webinar on a summit is science backed and that's exactly what we do. So I'm just thrilled I I have no agenda for this. You got a ton of information. If we ended up talking about something that I need to learn about, I'm just going to peel off and say, Wait, explain that. And that's, that's for me. So I'm not trying to question you, but like, sure, where I've read some of your stuff. And it's pretty cool. We're talking the same stuff, fix your brain through your gut, that kind of thing. That's all about us. So, welcome. So excited.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 1:18
Thank you. Thank you so much. And I'm thinking a place to start if I may. The Alzheimer's Association came out last year and said one out of three elders dies with Alzheimer's or another dementia. So that means between the three of us, one of us is going down in our brain function, and it ain't gonna be me.
Ken Brown 1:42
It's gonna be Eric. It's gonna be Eric.
Eric Rieger 1:43
This is unfair.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 1:44
I feel like I understand. But that's a reality check. And with a reality check like that, whether we like it or nobody likes to talk about brain function, no one does. You know, we all know someone that had a heart attack and survived. They changed their diet, they started exercising, they lost 25 pounds, they look better than they've looked in years. Most of us know someone diagnosed with cancer that went through the recommended protocols. And they're doing better than they've done in years. No one knows anyone diagnosed with a brain deterioration disease that's doing good. It terrifies us. And so we avoid the topic. So I want to talk about first the reality check that our healthcare system is not quite working the way we want it to and more people are getting sicker, especially if we talk about the brain and kids with autism and the numbers are skyrocketing and all that, but how can we look at our health care if our bodies aren't working the way we want them to right now? What's the big picture view of that? How do I get a big picture and I want to suggest this concept because I have found that this works really well. When I moved from Chicago to Southern California in 2010 I needed a map. How do you get from Chicago to San Diego? You need a map, you know, and I may know how to get to Denver cuz you just get on I 80 in Chicago, it takes you to Denver, right? You know, I may or it actually doesn't, it takes you close and you have to go up and 94. But I don't know how to get to San Diego, you need a map. When your body is not working the way you want it to you need a map. You can't just look for a better form of vitamin C, or what brain nutrient Can I take to help my brain function better? We have to have the map and what is the map in healthcare. The map is understanding at a layman's level, how I got to where I am and if we don't. To understand how we got to where we are right now, we are just like a dog chasing its tail trying to get somewhere else. So the question about brain dysfunction, or the question about auto immunity is, why is the immune system attacking my own tissue? Why is my brain not functioning the way it's supposed to, and you have to do a deep dive. And you don't need to be a geek and know the science because there's lots of information out there now. But we have to be willing to be uncomfortable for a little bit of time in being overwhelmed with knowledge. And we take it just one step at a time. That's why the subtitle of my most recent book, you can fix your brain. The subtitle is just one hour a week to the best memory, productivity and sleep you've ever had. And it's not cutesy subtitle It is the only way to be successful at changing the direction your brains going. Because as you learn more and more about the things that you didn't know, you mean that little bit of mold on my shower curtain there, it secretes spores into the air every time I take a shower, and I'm inhaling those spores and they go right up to my brain. And the number one type of Alzheimer's of the five types is called inhalation Alzheimer's, meaning what you're inhaling is causing the inflammation in your brain killing off brain cells. Yes, change shower curtain, you know, or whatever the trigger is. People don't know what the trigger triggers are. So they don't know what to do and they're hoping for a magic pill. You need the map. How did I get to where I am, so you then can make the corrections over six months to a year that turn your health in a new direction.
Eric Rieger 6:00
I agree with that. I think that with where you're where you're beginning here in our discussion, many of the things you listed there, there's a lot to unpack, but many of the things that you listed there are, I think some huge tenants that that we discussed here on the go check project. One of those is that gut brain access, Dr. Brown talks quite a bit about the relationship for brain health and how it begins really with systemic health, which obviously originates in the gut. And then you're talking about issues of, of nerves and obviously the brain is a bundle of nerves but neural health and so what is it specifically that we need to do to protect our bodies from I would assume you're getting to long term inflammation what what the caveats are there that are initiating those inflammatory responses? So is there something that you wanted to kind of peek at there were
Ken Brown 6:51
Yeah, so love where you're going with this. I'm um, as a gastroenterologist what I'm seeing is an exponential growth of autoimmune disease, Crohn's all sort of colitis are those celiac disease. Those are the ones that I deal with. And we're seeing this huge exponential growth. What you're describing is one in three people getting Alzheimers, we are seeing that autism is increasing. there's a there's a common theme here. And it's this upward hockey stick that's going on with chronic diseases. I love everywhere you're going and you I'm my bandwidth is only so large, where I have to kind of focus on how do I improve your gut to improve your brain and now you're talking other aspects. I want to get into that, but I want to know more about the guy. I'm a real big fan of how I built this. So I want to know more about the guy, the doctor Tom, how did you end up deciding that you were going to go down this path? I've heard a lot of your lectures so I know that you're super smart. I know you're very well read, but I don't know you. So let's talk about you for a moment.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 7:52
Sure, sure. When I began my medical education in chiropractic school, very first week, the very first week I knew absolutely nothing. You know, we're working on a cadaver. I've just seen a dead body for the first time learning how to work with cadavers and genetics classes. There was a sign Dr. Sheldon Deal. Mr. Arizona was coming on campus to give a talk on Wednesday night. My very first week. This was the first week of January 1978. And I thought I'll go listen to this guy, Mr. Arizona bodybuilder, he's going to be a healthy guy. So I go to the talk. He has a color television on a stand in the room and back then color televisions were pretty new. And so to see all those colors, you know, he had the television on but the volume off
and he walked over to a desk opened his briefcase to pick out a bar man, an iPhone, walked up to the color Television holding the iPhone like a flashlight you know policeman holds a flashlight up Hi, walks up to the color television with this bar magnet, the picture turns upside down and walks away. It goes right side up and walks towards it goes upside down. walks away it goes. Right? In attic pollution does to your brain and your nervous system. It's called neurological switching. These are people that say right, when they mean left, they write the number three backwards. they they they just are confused. And it was the first evidence in my mind the first introduction to electromagnetic pollution
Ken Brown 9:51
1978 he was talking about in 1978. That's crazy.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 9:55
Yes, because he he was talking he was talking about batteries in a watch and because they were fairly new, and when you put a battery next year body and this was a watch that it can for sensitive people, not for everyone but for sensitive people. It can be the straw that breaks the camel's back. And it impacts on their neurological organization, and how their their brain and their nervous system functions. Nowadays, we take it for granted Of course, we wear watches with batteries, and we put ear pods and our years we put batteries next to our brain. And, you know, we're using headphones that are remote wireless, so more batteries next to the brain. You know, I'm a strong advocate that we never put a cell phone next to our head. You either use the speaker or you use a corded earphones so that you're not putting especially for children whose skulls are thinner and these electric magnetic waves penetrate through a thinner skull of a child. And now there are so many studies on that. That's why in the book, you can fix your brain. I talked about the pyramid of health. Remember, we're still looking for a map here. How did I get to where I am? So in a pyramid, we think there's three sides to a pyramid. No, there's four. There's also a base. So the base is structure. That's the home of chiropractic and osteopathy, and massage and pillows and orthotics in your shoes and is your car seat tilted back. So you're driving like this all the time. That's, that's structured the base, then there's the biochemistry, the one that we all know about. And that's what we eat and drink the air we breathe. Then there's the spiritual or emotional and then there's the electromagnetic. So whenever you have a health concern, you have to look at all four venues to see, where are the triggers that are contributing to my body not functioning the way it should. So that was my introduction in January of 1978, to healthcare. And from that, I started looking in the literature and I found some children living within a quarter mile of high power tension wires had higher incidences of leukemia. That was 1979. I think I found that first study. And by the early 80s, mid 80s, there are many studies coming out about high power tension wires, and people's health if they live near that. So that validated for me, that for some people, electromagnetic pollution was a problem. Not for everybody, but for some people. And the same is true about structure. For some people. That's the problem. For some people, it's stinking thinking, the emotional or spiritual side and You can see the studies on stress hormones inflaming or triggering type one diabetes and triggering autoimmune diseases was what we think that or how we respond to stress and the hormones we make that set that up. For some people. That's the trigger. It's all about finding the map. So my entire career has been based on always asking my first mentor, no, my second mentor. My second mentor was Dr. George Goodheart, the founder of applied kinesiology, the muscle testing that some doctors have seen. Practice night have hundreds and hundreds of hours with Dr. George and he would always every weekend in our seminars, and usually they were at the Marriott Hotel at the airport in Detroit. So people fly in from all over the world to listen to Dr. George and the the podium that he's stood on was a wood podium. And he would do this all the time. He would say, lift up his right knee and his right arm and go, Why doctor and slam his foot down really hard. So we all kind of jumped in our seats now, because that would stage would just like bounce a little bit. Why do they have what they have? Why is your patient complaining of dot dot dot? And he would consistently drill into us Why? So my entire career has been based on why is that happening? You know, for example, why is it? We've all heard that it takes 20 minutes before the hormones in your gut. Tell your brain that you've eaten enough? How come you don't feel full right away with the volume of food you take in? How come you have you eat a little bit more and they say, Oh, I'm really full. How come that messaging is delay. I don't really know. But doctor Ken , you might, you know, we could have some discussion about this. I just made this up. But I think it's because we have the same body as our ancestors thousands and thousands of years ago, bodies function exactly the same. And a primary concern for our ancestors was getting enough food. They didn't get three meals a day, they ate when they found food. So even when they're full, maybe they should eat a little bit more because they might not get it next time. And so they get an extra few 15-20 minutes of eating the berries or eating the nuts or a little more meat on a harvest they made because they might not get a meal for a day or two. And I'm just making it up as to why I've never seen anyone write about why that is that that happens. But that's that was my thought about it, but always why. So I've been asking why my entire career.
Ken Brown 16:01
So the why this is really interesting. So the when was 1978? The How is these mentors that have come to you? And then the Why is how do I do this? So then the how I built this, where did you go from? Okay? I am learning a lot from these experts, I have decided to shift my career focus and put in you've put a ton of time into developing summits into writing books into I mean, your your website is just got blogs that are just stacks and stacks deep. So when did you make this decision to go, I'm going to really commit to this aspect. And I'm going to become a thought leader and a teacher about these kind of things. Because clearly, you're passionate. But the as, as a physician myself, it's finding that time it's saying I'm going to take this, this leap off this dock, say I'm going to commit to this. I feel so strongly about it that I'm willing to put myself out there.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 17:01
My third mentor was Dr. Jeffrey Bland. Who I heard Dr. Bland first talk in Chicago in 1978. And he is the Science Guy.
Ken Brown 17:15
78 was a big year for you.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 17:16
It was a big year. It was a very big year, married in 77. Went to school graduate school in 78. met these incredible mentors. You know, I think my angels just guided me to these guys. It was unbelievable. And but Dr. bland would say now this doctor in the New England Journal of Medicine said this and oh here three years ago, in the British Medical Journal, they said this and right here last week in the Journal of American Medical Association, they've said this, do you see how these pieces come together? And Dr. bland has always been about asking why and understanding at a deeper level why things can occur from a science level. So Dr. Goodhart was all about clinicians and being a clinician and finding out how things work. And sometimes he made up the reasons because he wasn't as much of a science guy, as Dr. bland. so bland is talking why from the science goodheart is talking why from the results. And so what happened? Was I just with every patient, I just kept looking to see, why is that happening? Or if they're not getting the results that I think they should have gotten? Why is that not happening? What am I missing here? What am I missing? And so I kept I keep looking and looking and looking. I'm not content when they feel better. And I mean this with the greatest of respect, I don't really care how they feel. They don't come. They come to me because of how they feel. But they're really coming to me to have their bodies function better so they live a long and vital life and how they feel is transient. So whether I get them feeling better right away is secondary to identifying the mechanism behind why their body's not functioning properly,
Ken Brown 19:11
love how you said that, so that how they feel is transient. And the first thing I thought of is how many people come to me. And they're on multiple anxiolytics and multiple antidepressants, right? And I read the notes from the other doctors and they're like patient reports of feeling less anxious. Plus, check. Beautiful, there it is. But now I'm dealing with side effects of eight different drugs. And so I like how you said that how you feel is transient. I need to know why. I love
Dr. Tom O'Brian 19:38
Yeah, yeah, and of course, all of these drugs, the antidepressants, the anti anxiolytics. They're all approved and designed to be used for a short period of time. None of them are approved for the rest of your life. But they're given to people so they continue to feel less symptoms.
Ken Brown 19:56
They're approved to be given for short periods of time, but the pharmaceutical and I'm not passing the pharmaceutical industry. Many of these drugs if you try and get off of them create a tremendous amount of their own side effects. So knowing that, so Eric Eric's former life, the way that he paid for his crna school was actually as a drug Rep. So he's got some pretty interesting stories about how to make sure that you move some product.
Eric Rieger 20:19
Yeah, no comment, but I don't work there anymore. So that's probably the most important takeaway. No, but I do agree with that. And I do think Dr. Tom, one of the biggest issues that I never liked about certain aspects of pharmaceuticals, which were intended for short term, to become long term is they're missing a very, very important piece. Once I've taken this to alleviate whatever the symptom or the feel, as you put it, there's no exit strategy. There's no way for me to break this dependency that I've now formulated to make me now feel this new normal. And that's, that's something to fear. I would, I think, to engage long term with a pharmaceutical that's just simply going to function as a feeling band aid. is taking care of the issue.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 21:02
You're absolutely right. You know, and we've got so many cases of people on high blood pressure medication or on antidepressants. And we always say at the very beginning, now look, here's what's going to happen. There are some side effects to the medications you're taking. And you may have heard some, but I'm just want to make sure you know, these are the potential side effects. But we're going to address why your body has high blood pressure right now. So it's great to be taking these medications. You absolutely take them when you need them, and you need them right now. But as we address the underlying why your need for those medications is likely to go down, which means you're going to stand up and you're going to start getting dizzy because your blood pressure is too low, because you've got too much medication now. So I want you to call your cardiologist or the doctor who put you on that medication as soon as you start noticing any symptoms like this, this, this or this and say, Hey, I'd like to come in, and you come in and you say, you know, I'm getting a little lightheaded when I stand up now, and I never did before, but I've changed my diet. I'm exercising, I think I need less medication. Can you monitor me and we meet down when you think it's appropriate and safe. But just gradually wean me down so that I don't have any complications as my body's getting healthier. And every doctor is willing to do that every doctor and if they're not find a new doctor to monitor your medications.
Ken Brown 22:36
So I'll stop you right there. And this is more for teaching me and with your style of practice. You have somebody that comes in you know that they've got the diabesity triad or whatever. And you look at them you go Okay, we need to start someplace. Do you start diet do you start environmental toxin do you start sleep, because I think those are kind of the three pillars might leave least knowledgeable aspect of that is environmental toxin because it's just something that I've not gotten into yet. And when you mentioned the breathing in the spores, I'm like, Yeah, I've got a lot of patients that got really sick when they moved into an older home and they renovated and then they've never been right. Since I've definitely believe that mold has a big role, but it's just the amount of time. So when you look at this, I'm challenging you to say this is where I start first, where is it?
Dr. Tom O'Brian 23:25
Really easy, really easy. There is a great program that's been developed called the living matrix. And the living matrix is a, I don't know 30-40 page questionnaires. And it's going to take you, Mrs. patient, it's going to take you a day or two to fill this out. You'll come back to it and fill out some more of it. Someone's going to say how is the health of your mother during your pregnant pregnancy with you? And he will say, Oh, I don't know my mother passed. That's all right. Call your aunts. Call your aunts and find out. Did mom take any medications during the pregnancy with me, you get as much information as you can, and when you have a completed living matrix, this is the computer model, the program sets it off into eight different categories. And it becomes obvious which categories are the most out of balance. And that's usually the place that you start. And we'll start with maybe two or three of those categories, depending on the individual. Some people, it's clear, their auto immunity happened within three months of their divorce, or within three months of being sexually abused. And it's clear, they've got to deal with that energy. And so that person needs to include in their protocol, a therapist that they feel really good working with about this particular topic, because that's not my category. But if it's not address, it's going to thwart the progress radically.
Ken Brown 24:59
That is so interesting. That's that insult to injury that I have to have that discussion with so many patients where I have somebody that comes to see me and they're like, yeah, it's unfortunate. I went to this horrible divorce. And then I started bleeding out my rectum and then I diagnosed them with raging ulcerative colitis. So like, what is the bad luck? I'm like, I hate to attribute it to bad luck. I attribute it to a sequence of events.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 25:22
Yeah, exactly. Right. I agree. Yeah, that is totally agree fully agree. And and the tool called the living matrix of every patient fills that out. I have lots of people, you know, we we did a docu series called betrayal, the autoimmune disease solution. They're not telling you is that out yet? Okay. It is it is. And we've actually had over 600,000 people watch it. When I make the living matrix available to people and I think probably four to 6000 people have filled it out. You know, it's great because it's hard to read until you understand how it works, but it gives you a lot of information. And all of our patients fill it out before I'll ever see them if they don't fill it out, or they fill it out halfway. I don't see them. If I if I see that it's only half done. I call my staff because I'm virtual now, you know, so I do virtual consultations. But as I'm looking at the results here, and I'm looking at the screen and living matrix, you know, if it's not filled out, I call my staff and I say rescheduled or they put the time and I'm not putting the time in until they do if they do it half ass, I'm not going to do it half ass, and so cancel them, and don't charge them just cancel them. And if they want to come back, do it right. You know, you just don't put up with that. And I talk on stage all the time to doctors. You can't put up with someone who's putting their toe in the water. They're either going to do a deep dive with you, whatever your skill set is or they're not and in our practice, we represent that our goal is to help them see the map of what's happened to them. And so if they can't, they can't see the map. If I don't know the history, it's not possible.
Eric Rieger 27:16
Well, that's actually pretty, pretty impressive because in a different in a different way when we've had patients who've come through the clinic, and then we've, we've prepped them to, to scope and I'm addressing anesthesia and of course, Dr. Ken over here is discussing with them what to expect as they continue on their journey. Something I've heard him address is, it doesn't matter necessarily what led to where you are right now, whether it be your fault and all of them or none of them. But it is your responsibility to engage with the change that's going to make you better. And you've had that conversation with with plenty of patients and it really just doesn't matter what to this point we can identify the triggers, which of course helps finding the solution. But ultimately, there's going to be self responsibility for one's own health. And you've got to be able to commit to whatever that change happens to be. And I would say that really the the gut check project that this whole the whole reason for this podcast was, we felt that there are better solutions than just taking the old didactics from the pharmaceutical industry and antiquated medic medical school iidx to solve problems. Mother Nature has lots and lots and lots of tools that we don't all, you know, use which are free available. And if you just have the discipline to stick with it for your own interest, you'll find in most cases, a better health, healthy living style, I guess you could say,
Dr. Tom O'Brian 28:48
well, you guys are in a unique situation that you have to do the tests to identify where they're currently at. You've got to be able to clearly say you've got ulcerative colitis, it's at this stage and it's in this area of your colon and Okay, so we need to calm down this fire, calm down this inflammation while we look to see where it came from. So you you guys have both areas that you have to address and I do this on stage a lot and you know doctors laugh at it, but I've had a number of people come back to me years later and thanked me that they implemented this. When I I tell patients that my favorite patients are the ones that say I've been to Mayo Clinic and they don't know what's wrong. And I'll say that's great. Congratulations. And they look at me kind of startled. You know, they heard I'm a nutcase. But Congratulations, that means you don't have a disease. Because if you've got a disease, Mayo Clinic would find it. You've got dysfunction, something's not functioning right. So the test we're going to do or not the same test that we're looking for disease, we're going to do functional tests. And I hope that we find some functional tests, and people will and sometimes their insurance won't pay for it. And then some patients will say, Well, I can't afford that. And I say, Okay. Oh, okay. And then I write down in their file. Patient refuses this recommended test due to finances? And please sign this. Well, why? Why would I sign that? Because you're asking me to work with one hand behind my back. And I'm going to do everything I can to be of service to you. I will do my very best, but I'm not responsible anymore. If a problem occurs that I miss something, because well, no, no, that's okay, Doc, I'll sign it. Okay. Or no, no, no, I'll do the test. I'll do the test. Okay, good. Because I've seen so many people that say I can afford it. And two months later, I see him in the shopping they've got a deep tan because they just spent three weeks in Mexico, on vacation. It's just a priority thing. And if someone really can't afford what they need, well, our services will always reduce our services for finances if it's true, but we need patients to take ownership and responsibility to be actively involved with us. as we're going through this process.
Ken Brown 31:28
When you started this, you open with Alzheimer's and it's funny because I kind of do that with my patients where you said that one in three people will now develop Alzheimer's. And then you tell me Alzheimers Association says that Alzheimers Association, so and then you talk about a patient that cannot afford to do X, Y and Z but you see them with a deep tan. So I use the let's fix your gut to protect your brain later in life. Because I'm I personally and I try and teach my kids this. I've got a 15 year old, a 13 year old. And my wife and I are on the same page where I personally prefer to purchase memories, as opposed to things. So I'm perfectly willing to take us on a trip, have some incredible meals, have some great pictures that we'll revisit. And rather than purchase something else, and what I mean by that is what is that memory worth? That memory is worth so much more than that object to me. And then if you were to say that I'm going to take away all those memories, meaning I'm going to take away your life, that's the panic moment with me, that's when I want to sit there and say, I want you to change your diet, I want you to change your lifestyle, not even so much is it so much a physical thing. It's not so much so that you can have the Beachbody, it's not so much you can do this. It's so that we protect your brain later. It's so that the same concept of osteoporosis prevention in your 30s so that we're not dealing with it and you're 60 so you're not busting a hip in your late 60s. And then now thing, what you're talking about, it's so true that you, it's hard to get people to think big picture like that. But you've always done this. So 1978 you have these mentors that do this. When did you decide to really say I'm going to be part of the movement? And I'm going to develop this website? I'm going to spend, I mean, you've been prolific. You've written books, you lectured you do some crazy summits. Man, you're gluten summit. Some of the people you have on that are like my heroes. I mean, Alessio Fasano, I mean, I've been following that cat since you know, early on in his career and a lot of you get some some pretty heavy hitters. That's pretty impressive. How did you go from, I now need to make a difference. On a greater scale, I guess is what I'm saying. You've mentioned multiple stages and stuff like that. When did you go it's less from one to one it's more from one to many.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 33:53
January 2013 my friend, I think our friend I believe, you know, JJ Virgin. I've known JJ for many, many years. And she used to call me or I'd see her and she said, I just went to this weekend seminar was fabulous. You know, they're talking about this marketing concept of how to get information out to people in sales. He she said, You should come and say, Oh, yeah, thanks. Thanks. And then she hired a consultant, Allie, and he called me and said, I just signed the contract and I'm working with Allie. I'm gonna learn how to do this at a bigger scale. Come do it with me. Yeah, how much? $10,000 it ain't happening here. It ain't happening. Right. And then JJ grew and she grew. She applied to Princeton.
Ken Brown 34:45
JJ is pretty convincing. when she gets passionate predicaments.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 34:49
Yeah. And then she called me and said, Look, I'm having a seminar. I'm having I'm hosting a seminar, you're going to be there. I'm going to hire somebody to come grab you by the nape of your neck and bring okay, okay. Okay, welcome. So this is January 2013, dropped my jaw to hear how the participants there would do one thing that they prepare a webinar or something. And they would have 200 people attend, or 400 people attend just drop my jaw of the impact factor that was magnified by learning how to use the internet. And so I made a declaration that weekend. I said, you know, I'm a geek, and I just read a lot of science and I know these guys are I've been in their seminars where I've seen them at symposiums. I'm going to interview a number of geeks from around the world. And I'm going to put it online. Would you everyone here in the audience helps support me in this by send out announcements. And they all said yes. So my first interview, you'll really appreciate this Dr. Ken. My very first interview ever was Professor Michael Marsh, and our the marsh Godfather, the Godfather, celiac Marsh one Marsh to Marsh three, the Godfather, and he and no one had ever interviewed him. He was 74 no one had ever interviewed and he took me by the arm and walked me around Oxford and said, Tom, that's, that's right, right where I stood, and that and I received my medical degree in 1962. So that's great professor or took me down in the bowels of the library from the 1800s and that's where he sat to study every day. And you know, so Marsh, the Godfather and Professor Fasano, Harvard and so many others from around the world. Umberto Volta chairs the celiac Society of Italy. And I interviewed all these people. And everyone who's a JJ's event, sent announcements out to their people. We had 118,000 people attend Luton summit in November of 2013. It was the first online. The first online health summit ever was the gluten summit. And we made it up.
Ken Brown 37:25
And that was when 2000 what?
Dr. Tom O'Brian 37:27
November 2013.
Ken Brown 37:30
I mean, thousand of those people were still doing dial up. Yeah.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 37:35
That's right, you know, and the weekend I came back from making that declaration, I mean, I was fired up. I get a message. And this guy emails me and says, Hi, my name is Bob Roth. I am the social media director for the University of Chicago celiac center, and I'm out in California. I'm wondering if you did have time for breakfast, and I said, You i'm sure so we had breakfast and Bob said, you know, Dr. O'Brien, everyone's University Chicago thinks you're a nutcase. You talk about you talk about gluten sensitivity outside of celiac disease. And but I watched one of your presentations was recorded, and you're just talking science. I said, Yes. You said, you're actually correct. And I said, I know. I know. He's and I said, Listen, Bob, I just made this declaration. I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to travel the world. I'm going to interview these guys. I know who to interview. And I'm going to interview them. We're going to put it together and we're going to do this thing online. Come join us. So Bob left the University of Chicago celiac center, and came to Southern California and was our social media person. And then we found a guy to who knew how to run this program I learned about in jjs weekend called InfusionSoft, which puts puts all the data together into one package and sends it online. And we hired Bobby from Tennessee. And we put on the gluten summit. And the next day, I mean, so many of my friends call him said, How did you do that? What did you do people like Deanna Minik and Mark Hyman and so many other my friends, how did you do that? And I said, Well, my friends helped me here. And they said, Oh, can can are my staff and we just made it up. When there was a problem. We made it up. And they said, can I talk to your staff. And I said, Sure. Then my staff came to me and said, Hey, Doc, they they want us to do this for them. We should start a company to do this. And I know man, that's not my thing. That's not my passion. You guys go ahead if you want to. That was the formation of health talks online which is hosted 10s of millions of people in the last seven years in different summits all over the world, they of course, that's where it came from.
Eric Rieger 40:09
Sorry about that. I didn't mean to talk over you. But of course, you wanted to have people that were interested in what it was that you were offering. You also find some inspiration in the fact that there were that many like minded people who were essentially as you probably assumed, but now you confirm they're kind of starved for that information.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 40:27
Oh, I knew I knew from the day I opened my practice about the frequency of weed related disorders outside of celiac disease. I knew it. The testing was just not accurate enough at the time to confirm it. But I put people on gluten free diets and they get better again and again and again. But it was a component of a treatment program, not just gluten free diet, but it was a prerequisite you have to do that. Sure, guys, I see that the battery on my computer's at 5%. I have to run into the other room and get the charger So I'm going to come right back to you. So
Ken Brown 41:04
we're gonna love this. I love this conversation. So what's really cool about Dr. Tom is just how honest he's being. He's just like, Hey, I met this guy. He taught me something. I met this other guy. He taught me something, I met this, JJ comes up to me and says, Hey, come over and do this, and just pulls the trigger and says, I have a message that I interview out there. And the digital marketing era was really in full swing. Right then.
Eric Rieger 41:30
the thing I felt the reason why I asked Darshan that last question was, to me it was it was eye opening, even when we met JJ is just seeing how many people were now gaining access to topics that simply were not being addressed when when we were young, or going through school, etc. And basically what I feel like Dr. Tom just illustrated here is technology has allowed us to take what has been either ignored or hidden messages out to the masses and then helping people where they couldn't find help before.
Ken Brown 41:59
Yeah. Are you back with a Tom?
Dr. Tom O'Brian 42:02
I'm back with you. And as, as, as you were talking about technology absolutely correct, you know, for years and years that they thought I was a nutcase because I would talk about wheat related disorders outside of celiac. And now we have the testing available that's very, very accurate 97 to 99%, sensitive and specific. And so with those kinds of tests, the test is called the wheat Zoomer, could you zoom in on problem? And with those kinds of testing, people see for themselves that their immune system is trying to protect them, whether they get sick when they eat it or not.
Ken Brown 42:43
So you've said this three times now, which means that it has clearly been a part of your career you said they said I'm a nutcase. They said I'm a nutcase. They knew I was a nutcase. So you've stuck by this, but will you explain a little bit when you say that, they say I was a nutcase. That meant that as a chiropractor discussing these other aspects infringing on people's territory, was it that you were just so far ahead of the curve that nobody was discussing? I want to know why you feel why you Dr. Tom feels that other people viewed you as a nutcase?
Dr. Tom O'Brian 43:20
Oh, it was obvious. It was spoken about. But the the point in that is, you know, when when you know, that science is on your side, but technology just hasn't caught up yet to confirm it. And you know, it's on your side, because you see the results again, and again, and again and again, and you keep seeing the results, but you the technology just hadn't caught up yet. Then either you go by the status quo, with all of these unexplained applications, and people Don't get well, they're the way they're supposed to, or are you willing to break new ground and say, you know, oh, no, as is negative, when they give up wheat, they feel so much better. Why don't you try it for three weeks, and let's see what happens. Well then, and they get better. Their their child's attention deficit gets better. And the teacher say the new drug, you've given your child's working really well. And it was just a gluten free diet. The other parents say, Oh, we, we didn't give them any drugs. So he's on a gluten free diet. And you see that again and again and again. I can't let what other people think of me get in the way of the service that I can do for my patients.
Ken Brown 44:50
Because you took a really bold let's, let's dissect what you just set about that. You knew that certain people in health care, we're not saying the nicest things about you. And then you dove in when you said I don't want to treat a patient that just sticks their toe in the water, you dove into a digital marketing world where keyboard warriors love to play also. So you went from I know that some people are going to say not nice things, too, I'm going to embrace it on a level that nobody ever has. And I'm gonna teach online, which is a very, very bold thing, because not a lot of people have the guts to do that right. To be pushing the envelope. I mean, it's, you know, I mean, you talk about I've been talking about zonulin for years before we test it. And you said we'd Zoomer and that's how I got involved with vibrant wellness. I was like, Ah, you guys figured out how to check zonulin? Yes,
Dr. Tom O'Brian 45:49
yes, yes.
Ken Brown 45:51
Yeah. And when I talked to my colleagues, I mean, even when I talked to gastroenterologists, they looked at me like you're What are you? Are you one of those? nutjobs talking leaky gut. You're one of those weirdos talking gluten sensitivity. Um, you know, fortunately, I fortunately did not discover the internet early enough so I didn't have to put myself out there and have a successful career writing books and doing stuff like that. Fortunately, I still have to stick my finger in people's butts to make a living and occasionally interview somebody who's smarter than me that decided to put it out there on the internet and do things and do summit so that's a but it takes guts to do that. So are you there. Dr. Tom?
Eric Rieger 46:35
Did he freeze
Dr. Tom O'Brian 46:37
sn
Ken Brown 46:38
you froze there for a little bit.
Eric Rieger 46:41
We can hear you. Okay. You guys go. How about that?
Ken Brown 46:45
Okay. There we go. Okay, back now.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 46:47
Okay. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, you're absolutely right. You know, you asked me why and how did I do this? A home that I have in every one of treatment rooms. Can Can you hear me? Okay?
Ken Brown 47:13
Yeah, you're going in and out a little bit, but I think it's all right. Oh, we should go ahead and muscle through it. That's right.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 47:19
Okay, okay. There's a poem that I when I read it I just resonated deep deep in my being. It's by George Bernard Shaw. This is the true joy in life, being used for purpose recognized as the Mighty One. The being a force of nature. Instead of a selfish, feverish little clod of ailments and grievances complaining The world will not devote itself to making you happy. I am of the opinion that my life belongs to the whole and it is my privilege to do for whatever I can, life is no brief candle to me. It's sort of a splendid torch that I have a hold up for the moment and want to make burn as brightly as possible before passing it on to future generations. So that's my creed.
Ken Brown 48:18
I love it. I love it. It's awesome.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 48:20
And and from that place, if you know about zonulin, and you know about leaky gut and you think a patient's got it and you don't address it, because of what our peers may think, in my mind, it's Shame on you. And I do that on stage with doctors all the time, who cares what your peers think? I'll give you an example of that one, and you'll appreciate this one 1986 Australia. gastroenterologist says, You know, I think that sometimes ulcers are caused by a batch said you are a nutcase. Everybody knows ulcers are caused by too much acid and you have to give antacids so what did this guy do? He does an endoscopy, puts a camera down into his stomach takes pictures of the healthy pink tissue of his stomach. And then he drinks a beaker of beaker of a bacteria called Helio backer pylori. waits for days until he's as sick as can be, does another endoscopy takes pictures of the many ulcers that are starting in his stomach, and then he takes the antibiotics to kill the bacteria waits about a week until he's feeling better, does another picture of the healing of the ulcers. Then he publishes that paper, then everybody knows he's a nutcase. But he proved the under shadow of a doubt sometimes, ulcers are caused by a bacteria and the World Health or I thought that was so important. They sent that paper to every medical society on the planet. Why? Because at that time, stomach cancer was the number one cancer killing people. And it often comes from a helium backdoor infection. So, this guy didn't care. You know, he didn't care. He done his work, and he still was kind of thought of as a weirdo out there. Dr. Barry Marshall. 21 years later, he wins a Nobel Prize in Physiology. And the Nobel committee says and this is the exact quote, who with tenacity, and a prepared mind challenged prevailing dogma and that's what every one of our patients needs.
Ken Brown 50:49
a prepared mind. I like that exact word mind if you if you're tenacious, but you do your homework, you burn the midnight oil, the prepared mind with tenacity is an unstoppable force. That's awesome. That's love that
Dr. Tom O'Brian 51:05
is just one hour a week. That's tenacity every Tuesday night after dinner every Sunday morning after services whenever it is, but every week, you're going to spend one hour learning more about reading the map of how you got to where you are just one hour a week. And in six months, you've changed the way you think you change the way you live your life. You challenge prevailing dogma, and your health is the benefit that you get from it.
Eric Rieger 51:34
I love that.
Ken Brown 51:35
I love it. I
Eric Rieger 51:36
mean, it's interesting that you use Marsh as that example, because when this guy sitting to the right of me developed Atrantil and went on to talk about why polyphenols are so incredibly important. I guess we're going on six years ago now. He used that example. And that it's okay to think outside of the box which is essentially what he was saying to challenge dogma is to go outside of this box that we have built around ourselves. If it weren't for someone venturing outside, we never would have made innovation.
Ken Brown 52:08
And the beauty of the technology that has allowed you to have this stage where 600,000 people sign up for summon at one time, also allows us to share globally information in a way that we couldn't before. So when I sit there and meet with some of my colleagues, and they're like, oh, there's no science on that. I'm like, Oh, really, let me pull up my Mendeley account. Really, here's 8000 articles on what we're talking about. Why don't you start reading that and when in my world traditional medicine world especially in Texas, I think that different states a little more progressive, like California has always been a little more open to the functional medicine side but Texas, not so much coming around. But when the drug rep to my left over here when doctors say there's no science on that what they're saying is somebody is not brought me lunch with a detailed piece explaining what I'm supposed to say. That's really what I'm saying. And we're all really busy. And that is what it is. But it just happens to be just like you. You go, um, you know, I'm tenacious, but I'm armed with science, therefore, I can walk into this battlefield and hold down, even if they even if they call me crazy.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 53:17
Yeah, cuz that's exactly right. Last week I did an interview for a neuro psychiatric psychiatry group. And the doctor who coordinated the interview, she said, you know, Dr. Brian, I heard you speak three years ago at our conference, and you yelled at us on stage. No one's ever yelled,at us on stage before your neuropsychiatrist they're the cream of the crop in their own mind. You know, they're legends in their own mind. Right. And
Ken Brown 53:48
voices in their heads.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 53:50
Yes, right. Good, catch. Good, good. But what I said to them if you aren't spending one hour a week, reading the current literature Cutting Edge literature in your field of expertise, shame on you. You're outdated, one hour a week. And nobody's got time for any of this. But if you don't do that you're outdated within a year. Yeah. And, and she thanked me. She said, You know, I took what you said to heart because it made sense. I didn't like how you said it, but I liked what you said. And the result is I've completely changed my practice in three years. Thank you so much. I really want to acknowledge you here on the microphone in front of all of my colleagues, that was such an excellent recommendation to us and i and i say that to everyone. Whether you're a general public, or a health care practitioner, one hour a week. That's what it takes to have 10 that's tenacity and then prepare your mind to challenge the way you think so that you can read the map of what's happened to your body so far,
Eric Rieger 54:58
don't you one of the reasons why really enjoy doing our show is that I'm a better doctor because of it because I prepare for different things because I have to research a lot of stuff. When we talk about topics. You're the exact same way you have gone. You started with the gluten and the you went to the brain. You're looking at this now you've got different you've got the whole erm.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 55:20
bottle immunity
Ken Brown 55:21
Yeah, but what's the name of the of the program again?
Eric Rieger 55:25
betrayal,
Ken Brown 55:26
betrayal, betrayal. Yeah, I was I was trying to think of that. So when you do that you automatically your passion will have you read this. So I'm going to ask for your help. Maybe it's not you. Maybe it's some other people that you meet, but we're running into something. So when I say my Mandalay account, I have a graduate student that I work with and she finds everything If you need anything, let me know just email me She will find it and get the articles and so we can sit there and look at some of this but I'm seeing something and I think that you're probably seeing it also and it is This weird it becomes down to a nerve, dysautonomia motility type situation that can be the underlying cause of a lot of gastrointestinal issues which then lead to neuro inflammation. And now we're getting to the vagus nerve and we're talking about this I've got some really sick people that come to me and they're they've all been to the Mayo Clinic they've all been to the Cleveland Clinic and they all have been told that it's functional this and that, that it's in their head and they all say you should start taking Prozac but these are really intelligent people really type a people that had very successful their attorneys or accountants and this and that. I'm seeing a trend here that the chronic disease is affecting the nerves that is it acetylcholine Do we need to start working on the you know, the, the vagus nerve, I don't know. But I it just feels like more and more people are showing up there. They're really trying what's your what's your take on that? Because if we can figure this out. That's it.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 57:00
This is this is a PhD discussion that we're now getting into that is at the core of the answer to your question. Arguably the number one journal in the English language for children's health is the journal Pediatrics put out by the American Academy of Pediatrics. They published a policy statement, which means it's not an author, you know, if I were to get an article published in pediatrics as an author, I've scored top tier difficult journal to get into I've really scored but this is a policy statement. That means it came from the board of the Academy of the American Academy of Pediatrics, and they said the toxic substance Control Act failed miserably to protect our children and princes and adults. And it is The governing legislation at the federal level for all chemicals introduced into our environment. This was passed in 1976. It's still the regulating guidelines for all chemicals introduced into our environment. It the the guidelines are so cumbersome, that in 40 years, they've only regulated five chemicals or classes of chemicals in 40 years. Because the lobbyists were so successful in paying off the senators and the representatives to pass this legislation that has no teeth. The legislation says you have to show that the amount of whatever chemical a person is exposed to is toxic to them. When you pump gas and fill your tank with gas, can you sometimes smell the gas? Sure, of course. you're smelling benzene,
Ken Brown 59:09
right? Oh, yes.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 59:10
Benzene going up your olfactory nerves right into the brain triggering inflammation killing off brain cells right now. Right? It's killing brain cells. But there's no evidence that the amount of benzene it's inhaled while pumping gas is toxic to humans. There's no evidence you can't. There's no evidence that it causes a problem. But give me 30 years of smelling benzene once a week and how many millions of cells you've killed off. I'm warming up now. 2017. papers published that came out of Chicago 346 pregnant women and the eighth month of pregnancy They did urine analysis they measured Phthalates five Phthalates Phthalates are chemicals used to mold plastic. Most of us have heard of Bisphenol A or BPA Corona is one of the chemicals. They measured five chemicals. There are hundreds of chemicals but they just measured five. they categorize the results into quartiles, the lowest, the next, the third and the highest quartile. They then follow the offspring of those pregnancies for seven years. When the kids turned seven years old, they did Wechsler IQ tests on the official IQ test. There's not much in medicine, that's all or every This was every every child whose mother was in the highest quartile of Phthalates eats and urine and pregnancy compared to the children in the lowest quartile of Phthalates and urine and pregnancy. Every child in the highest score tile, their IQ was seven points lower than the kids in The lowest quartile of Phthalates seven points. That doesn't mean anything to anyone until you understand one point difference is noticeable. A seven point difference is a difference between a child working really hard getting straight A's, and a child working really hard, getting straight C's, right this kid in hell because his brain never developed properly. And then just go to Google and type in Phthalates and neurogenesis, nerve growth. Here come all the studies, how balades inhibit nerve growth. And you see this and you wonder why Autism is going up and attention deficit is going up. You see this and then you go back to the pediatrics article and you read that is 247 pounds of chemicals manufactured or imported into the US United States every day for every person in America 247 pounds, that's 27 trillion pounds a year, take the population of the US multiplied by 247 times 365 days, it's 27 trillion pounds.
Every newborn child in America has at least 200 chemicals in their bloodstream at birth that aren't supposed to be there. Many of them are neurotoxins, brain time. You wonder why we're seeing this increase in disease. We all are walking sewage dumps, excuse me, but we are we all are because it's in the air. You if you sit in a room and you can see the sunlight coming through the window, sometimes the right time of day the angle and you see little dust in the air. That's what you're breathing. That dust is the family lychee From the plastic lines in the windows, they leach out family chemicals into the air for years. It's the scotch guard on the sofa, leaching out those chemicals into the air for years. It's the formaldehyde in the kitchen cabinets. If they're not solid wood, they're pressboard. They're soaked in formaldehyde, and the bathroom cabinets leaching out into the air for years. And we were exposed to all of this, all of that and we're walking sewage dumps. You wonder why degenerative diseases are going, why Alzheimer's and the number one type of Alzheimer's is inhalational Alzheimer's, it's what's your breathing. This is so overwhelming for people. When you get when you look at this map. When you see what's happening. It is so overwhelming. That's why you have to operate from the platform of one hour a week. Yes, because and so one week When you learn that the leftover chicken from dinner, you put it in a plastic storage container in the refrigerator. The next day the chickens got phalates in it from the plastic. When you learn that one week, you take that hour you go into my book and there's the three URLs to order glass storage containers, and you go to miles, kimball.com and Amazon, whatever the third was, Oh, I like those. And yours three round ones in two square ones and one for the eyes. You pay with your credit card, you hit send, it took an hour, you're done for the week. Like that. Never again, will you poison your family with minute amounts of foul aids from leftover food in a plastic storage container. Now, there's no evidence that the amount of families that leach out of plastic storage containers is toxic to humans. That's how they get away with that crap it is. That's how they've gotten away with it. And it's the it's the The indoor and just read the science indoor air pollution is much worse than outdoor air pollution in most areas of the country. Because we don't think about our homes we don't think about the formaldehyde, the benzene, trichloroethylene that we're inhaling, then you go to my book and there's the study with the graph that the study from NASA that shows to six inch house plants, and there's the list of all the house plants that do it to six inch house plants and a 10 by 10 room absorbs up to 70% of the toxic chemicals in the air.
Ken Brown 1:05:37
warmer times. This is the front so now you're scaring the snot out of me, but now you're giving me a solution. So you're saying when your book can got
Dr. Tom O'Brian 1:05:43
a Kleenex, hand him a Kleenex to get the snot and to six inch houseplants, and there's about 12 or 14 different types of houseplans six inch houseplants absorbable To 70% of the toxins in the air in a 10 by 10 room, they're absorbed through the leaves, they go down into the roots, the microbiome of the soil breaks that stuff down. They produce oxygen and put oxygen into the air to 10 by 10 to six inch houseplants for a 10. By 10 room
Eric Rieger 1:06:17
solution.
Ken Brown 1:06:18
Yeah, it's a solution I'm all about so and so your book is not just teaching people what to worry about, but you're like, this is the solution. So the one hour a week is I'm going to give you one hour a week solution. And if you continually do that, by the end, you're going to be a healthier person.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 1:06:35
You know, everybody wants solutions. Nobody wants to hear about the problem. But there's no way you will have the tenacity to do this. And at a pace that you can do it and not be overwhelmed. That's why it's one hour a week understanding. You are going to be overwhelmed, but you're going to do bite sized pieces pieces of this. And in six months. You've got it. You've changed your life. Your husband Using the Tupperware containers to store nails in the garage, right? I mean, you've got all the the dishwasher, you'd never run the dishwasher during the day. Because the toxic chemicals that come out of the dishwashing detergent, when they get heated up to 160 - 170 degrees, they leach out of dishwashers are not airtight. They're watertight, they're not airtight, and those chemicals are in the air, you're sucking those fumes. You only run the dishwasher at night when everybody's sleeping. And you've got to learn all these little things because the paradigm that we've accepted the prevailing dogma that we've accepted about the way to live life and about our homes is killing us. It's slowly killing us. This is why your patients are coming in with more confusing results is because they're loaded full of all of these toxic chemicals. How many of us have been watching the chem trails? For years to say, Oh, that's really something you know that that's too bad. Yeah, I wonder what that stuff is. And we've never done anything about it. We're sucking the fumes of all those heavy metals that were being spewed into the air.
Eric Rieger 1:08:12
Yeah, well, I do want to add something here. I know that we've been it didn't seem like until just looked. But we've been talking for a good while. And I need to also give you some praise since you were the first to utilize the digital internet to reach so many people. You also have one of the most kick ass URLs I've ever seen. Yeah, so what is it? We do? So
Ken Brown 1:08:34
we haven't ever joked about this? I was like, how in the heck did that guy get that URL?
Dr. Tom O'Brian 1:08:39
1996
Eric Rieger 1:08:42
the URL to link up with this very Dr. Tom O'Brien is the doctor.com and I want to say that one more time the doctor.com but you have the Dr. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, you're the Dr. calm. So Dr. Bri ER doctor abbreviated v dr.com. dr.com will connect you with Dr. Tom O'Brien. But you also also have two specific programs for our listeners. One is to do that with a / betrayal to get on to the train of exactly the training that you're talking about and the other one, and I'll put, I'll put this in show notes, everyone, but the other one is thedoctor.com/kickstart. And if you want to do a quick rundown on exactly what kickstart is, that way, everyone in our universe can hop over and learn a little bit more from that from that with from you. Just tell us a little about thedoctor.com/kickstart.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 1:09:36
You bet that Thank you. The kickstart is a number of handouts for you. They're going to talk about how to detox your house, how to reduce electromagnetic pollution in your house. What are the house plants that will suck up toxins? There's there's a handout for the kitchen there's a handout for the bathroom. There's a handout for the bedroom, all a number of different handouts so that you've got Steps to implement right away and you take them at your own pace, you'll get the plastic storage containers out of there, order glass storage containers, things like that.
Ken Brown 1:10:10
Dr. Tom, I want to interrupt you real quick because you've hit a nerve with me here this is I just don't have the I'm always I spent a lot more than just an hour a week. But I spent an hours a week looking at the stuff that I'm interested in. And I have a blind eye to what you're talking about. And what you just said is I'm going to give you solutions. You can put a handout up, you're just going to go do this, this and this, because I believe you and I, I don't want to read a whole book about why I should get rid of my plastic just Just tell me how to how to fix it. That's what I like. kickstart seems like a really cool program for that.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 1:10:46
Oh, thank you very much. And if you were my patient, I'd be all over you. That you can't do that because it's wanting solutions that has gotten us into trouble. Oh, gotta understand. All of you. The map of what happens
Ken Brown 1:11:01
this where you start yelling at me like you did on stage.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 1:11:06
Because if you don't understand that mold can be a huge problem for Mrs. patient. When you go on vacation for a week or two, when you come home, you have to open the windows to air the house out. Oh, yeah, you got mold. You have to have the house remediated, you have to have a professional come Well, I don't have a problem. When I'm here. I don't feel anything. It doesn't matter if you feel it or not. If you're inhaling it, it's going up to your brain. And it's the number one trigger for the development of Alzheimer's is in halation, Alzheimer's, it's what you're breathing. So if your brain ain't cooking the way it should be, it's cooking in the wrong direction, you're too much on fire. You have to identify where it's coming from so you can get all the house plants you want. But if you still got mold in your bathroom, well it's not too bad on the tiles there. You know, it's just on the grout in between the tile that's not too bad. We'll Put that on your tombstone. It wasn't too bad. You know, it's critically important that we change our paradigm so that we understand what our individual map is, what has gotten us to where we are, because that map is going to change, you're going to get better because you implement the things in the handouts. That's great, you're going to get better. But a year from now, two years from now, you're going to get hit with something else. Because the handouts aren't complete. There's something else that's there for you. And it's killing off cells, killing off cells killing ourselves, and it'll manifest in your kidneys and your gut in your brain and your joints in your skin. It'll manifest somewhere. So that's why the investigative aspect of one hour a week is so critically important. Just one hour a week of reading my book, just one hour a week of listening to shows like yours and go back and listen to it again, and take notes on some of the things you know, but You've got to be willing, you have to find your level of uncomfortableness, or awkwardness with the information that you can handle and keep functioning in life really well, right? So you take in too much information, you get overwhelmed and you don't want to do anything. You're immobilized, like a deer in headlights. So that's what one hour a week, you just take one little piece at a time. And you address that the next week, you address this the next week, you address this, and over time in six months, you've got it. That's the critical component. That is I love that.
Ken Brown 1:13:38
You avoid the business term that you just described, which is paralysis through analysis when you have so much information that you do nothing.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 1:13:45
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.
Ken Brown 1:13:48
Oh, man, I love your message. I love it.
Eric Rieger 1:13:50
Dr. Tom O'Brien, everyone you can catch so much more information and from what I just got from your latest explanation is understand why You're doing the things that you're doing. And that way you always stay abreast of what is most important and keep up with it every single week, go to the doctor.com. That's th e dr.com. To learn more, from our very own Dr. Tom O'Brien, thank you so much for joining us today. gut check project number 40. And in the show notes, you will find both the direct links to doctor the doctor.com forward slash betrayal as well as forward slash kickstart Dr. Tom any last words for for today's show.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 1:14:36
Godspeed to everyone on their health journey.
Ken Brown 1:14:39
Awesome. Well, I tell you what people like you're out there. Number one, you're learning it your passion of learning it and clearly it is because once we start hitting on certain things, I feel like we could talk for another five more hours. And then your ability to do the work to get it out there because I mean, even doing this taking the time to get on a project. and discussing it, it requires time requires work. And more importantly, when I'm really excited is is that I know my space. And I don't know the stuff you're talking about, I'm going to tell all my patients get your book, I'm going to be like, Look, we're gonna do this together. And so that'll be kind of an interesting journey. Because this is just stuff I just have not quite honestly just haven't thought about. I'm kind of embarrassed.
Dr. Tom O'Brian 1:15:21
What what in what an excellent idea as a physician to have a chat room with people went like a book club that everybody's in the same book. And that questions will come up and you'll say, you know, I don't know the answer to that, but I'll look into it. And, you know, you'll call me or whatever, you know, we'll, we'll dial it down.
Ken Brown 1:15:43
It's really funny because I didn't really get deep into gluten until I met. You know, we got Rob Wolf and Chris Kresser. And these guys writing the paleo solution and so I read their books and I was like, holy Cow. You know, we exchanged some podcasts and stuff and They got me seriously thinking about it. Like I didn't even I was just kind of going through the whole motions. And I'm like, holy cow, these guys are making sense. So educating other people so that your voice has branches and it keeps going out. JJ brought you in. You then extended that it's it works. It's it's that her phrase is, you know, a rising tide lifts all ships and I think that you're certainly emulating that. That's awesome. Yeah,
Dr. Tom O'Brian 1:16:26
exactly. Right. Exactly. Right. Thank you so much, guys.
Ken Brown 1:16:29
All right. Well, thank you for your time. Dr. Tom, everybody, go to thedoctor.com and you'll learn about all this stuff. This is awesome.
Eric Rieger 1:16:36
Thank you all KMBD health family. We will see you on the next episode. All right. Take care.
Ken Brown 1:16:41
All right. Take care.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Eric Rieger 0:00
All right, welcome back to COVID files. This is actually an extension of COVID files number nine, so we used to call them 9.5. When we brought in Dr. Ackerman, we just call it nine plus,
Ken Brown 0:12
man, I think we ought to call it COVID file 10. It actually deserves its own thing. Now I understand that you've gotten some, some listeners that maybe were a little bit dismayed by how we ended the last podcast. Can you go ahead and get everybody up to date in case they didn't see it?
Eric Rieger 0:28
So there's there's actually a lot of things to attack number one, we had covered phone number nine, and COVID File Number nine, we talked specifically about the NRF two pathway. And we laid it all out there leading people up to the fact that how do you supplement the NRF two pathway because of how beneficial it is. If you've missed that. Don't watch this episode yet. Go back check out episode number nine. It's going to really lay the groundwork for this episode of COVID file number 10. Second thing, this is our first time this is my co host by the way
Ken Brown 1:00
But why don't you can write a long time since we've been together this close without without a mask on? We work together with a mask
Eric Rieger 1:05
No kidding.
Ken Brown 1:06
But you know, thank goodness, it's easy to get tested now. So at least I know as of this moment your test was negative. My test was negative, we can be this close together.
Eric Rieger 1:13
at least for as good as the test was. Yeah, it says that we're negative.
Ken Brown 1:17
And I'm super excited that you're able to multitask during this podcast.
Oh, yeah.
With you being so Eric, as you can see by the headphones, that he is a dual timing is a air traffic controller. Is that correct? You're getting feedback there. Is that why you're wearing headphones? And I'm not that is why I'm wearing them. Go ahead and raise your altitude.
Eric Rieger 1:37
Bet Yes, that's we're doing a little bit of double duty. Here we are in the studio. But we're all alone. We don't have anybody helping us. Paul is still doing a fantastic job of doing the production after we get finished recording. But for right now, we're keeping our exposure to a minimum because this is the first time that we've been this close.
Ken Brown 1:54
Yeah,
Eric Rieger 1:55
We've got a mask on
Ken Brown 1:55
It really is. And you and I have worked together this whole time. Yeah. Several times a week. But we have a Had a 95 mass on and so at some point you got to start to, you know, push the boundaries a little bit, we've got to get the studio, let's go ahead and do this. And why do I feel comfortable about this because what we're going to talk about today is an extension of last podcast, check it out. It's about the NRF two pathway. We'll recover that really quick, just briefly go over it. But I'm going to tell you how the NRF two pathway can be very effective in overall health right in multiple ways, but also the possibility that there is compelling evidence to show that if you do not have a healthy NRF two pathway, then you are at risk for getting COVID-19
Eric Rieger 2:39
Yes.
Ken Brown 2:39
So you and I are trying to do everything in our power to make sure that we have optimized our bodies in case we get exposed. Last episode we talked about how Joe Rogan's always saying why don't healthcare workers talk about how to prevent getting it that's what that whole show was about? Definitely. So it was about the last episode we talked about the NRF two pathway. And so today, what I want to discuss are some papers that I have found that show how to use certain natural products to improve your NRF two pathway. And that's right where we ended, we ran out of time last time, but specifically how this could be a new target to actually prevent SARS cov. Two, which is the virus that causes COVID-19 and reduce oxidative stress and inflammation while improving your immune system overall, and down regulating these two receptors, so it's kind of crazy, because it's like the panacea when we start talking about this pathway. And I started looking into these different papers. I'm like, why isn't anybody talking about it? Right? And I think that frequently, you and I have kind of pushed the boundaries a little bit and talked about stuff before everybody else was because we're, well, because we're just two turntables and a microphone. Because we have the access to some microphones.
Eric Rieger 3:52
It's just yeah, access to microphones. But even more importantly, it's science based. What we're doing is we're staying true to the whole order. Have the origination at origin ation origination of the program which is we're finding compelling evidence to talk about as it applies to not only our but your health
Ken Brown 4:10
yeah and so I think something that we have the ability to do is that been in healthcare and having access to wonderful people that help us out like Angie cook where we can get these articles that say Angie I want to talk about NRF you know, just unloads incredible articles on me and then we go through and sift through this. It's essentially what we're not making any claims. We're not saying anything to run out and this is what's what you should go do remember the disclaimer is, although I'm a doctor, or crna, we are not your crna and your doctor if you do have anything unusual going on if you have that weird rash or if you believe that you need to dogmatically look at something that we're talking about here and say I'm gonna do this, it's gonna protect me that's not what I'm saying. Talk to your doctor. What we're giving you is information. We're giving you science backed information. You do with that what you want. Ideally, I want you to take it to your doctor. And say, look, these guys are talking about this right? We should be talking about this. Right? So that's sort of the disclaimer right there, but it's all based on science. So, recap. We did talk about the NRF two pathway and we discussed how ridiculous the acronym is the acronym is nuclear factor, e two factor related related factor. I'll say that one more time nuclear factor, e two factor related factor, hence the f2, which is really funny. All right, it's the master regulator of cellular health, and it detoxifies all your cells. It stimulates cellular defense, and if any type of insult starts happening that protects the cell, specifically when we're talking about SARS, cov two, it actually down regulates the h2 receptor which allows the SARS cov to to attach and I'm gonna throw in a new term that we did not talk about last time because now it's relevant. The in normal conditions your NRF two pathway remains suppressed and kind of controlled like a cage using something called the cytoplasma repressor protein keep one that is the KE AP one. Talk about bad acronyms that's ever decided the NRF two decided that the keep one. The acronym stands for kelch like erythroid cell derived protein with CNC homology associated protein one cannot make that up. Like whoever was discovering this did not go to any acronym training at all. Now, we thought the NRF was bad. Now I'm going to tell you that there's something called the keep one protein, which doesn't allow your NRF to become activated. This is going to be relevant when we get into the next interesting. And so in response to any type of damage or attack or oxidative stress, the NRF two will actually separate from the keep protein which is controlling it, dive into the cell, hop into the nucleus and then turn on On 250 jeans, that's what makes it so amazing. Wow. So it says one thing that does this. That's why it's the master regulator. So in the last episode we discussed about how the role of the NRF two pathways beneficial in brain inflammation, cancer prevention, autism, environmental toxins and pollution, all based on studies and we discussed all that anti aging, dementia. In addition, we discussed about how if you do not have a properly functioning NRF two system, this can lead to obesity, diabetes, hypertension, and we know that if you are obese, older have high blood pressure or diabetes, you're at significant risk of having a bad outcome from SARS COV2 COVID-19. Yeah,
Eric Rieger 7:45
And don't forget premature aging
Ken Brown 7:48
and the whole premature aging I thought. On our last episode, we discussed how obesity comes down to cellular oxidative stress. You may be a little overweight because your cells are struggling to get rid of the oxidative inflammatory process early on, right. So all right. So we also discussed how SARS COV2 make ourselves more vulnerable, because that nasty little virus, the pandemic that's screwing us up, actually works to suppress the NRF two pathway, it knows that NRF two is going to kick its ass. So it does this whole thing where it tries to overwhelm your NRF two pathway. That's why we believe that certain people are at higher risk for having bad outcomes. It it's a bully it picks on you know, I'm going to find somebody with a weakened NRF two pathway.
Eric Rieger 8:38
What was the what was the analogy? We came up with cutting the phone lines before you break into a bank? Basically, we're stopping the ability for the rescue mechanism to work. We're not allowing it to work.
Ken Brown 8:49
Yeah. So the biggest question we have here is that all these people are being exposed. Why do some people go through these horrific things? Why do some people have long term residual bad outcomes like pulmonary fibrosis and stuff, right. And now I'm learning step two that nobody's talking about. The virus seems to do this much more effectively and have much more deleterious outcomes when people have these other diseases, which could be related to the NRF two pathway. So in other words, NRF, two super important, and now we're going to bring it into 2020. Right now, during a pandemic, how does this affect us? So
Eric Rieger 9:25
that's a lot,
Ken Brown 9:26
but it's that's what the whole episode was about before.
Eric Rieger 9:28
Yeah, that was just the summary. So we just crammed
Ken Brown 9:30
a full hour into just there. So Alright, so now we ended the show with saying, Okay, this is your NRF two pathway, hopefully, you listen to it. If not just know that it's super important. You can keep listening to this, the NRF two pathway master regulator and will at least have some built in mechanisms to fight viruses that are going on. So I want to talk about two natural ways to keep your NRF two pathway in great shape. Okay, let's do it. All right. So first one. This is very very dear to me. This is why I like how everything starts coming together at some point. first topic sulforaphane, sulforaphane. I have talked about sulforaphane for years. Yes. All thanks to Rhonda Patrick and a YouTube video and her going on Joe Rogan and discussing it. I've gotten super into sulforaphane. It is one of my favorite topics. Briefly, sulforaphane. If you're a geek, and you want to really know what's going on is an isothiocyanate. And what this is, is the molecule that is found in cruciferous vegetables, broccoli, cauliflower, things like that. And when these cruciferous vegetables are in their sprouted form, meaning it's a little teenager, a juvenile, okay, a juvenile broccoli, they tend to have much higher amounts of these precursor of the precursor that our bodies can then make sulforaphane and we get in So this was actually really exciting discovered by doctors at Johns Hopkins in 1992. Since then, thousands of articles have been shown documented the beneficial effects of sulforaphane and they have shown 39 distinct health mechanisms including blocking inflammation, like we talked about promoting brain health, promoting anti aging, General glossy things, but there's so many studies on this. The problem is this. The precursor to sulforaphane is a molecule called Glucoraphanin Glucoraphanin and then become sulforaphane. When the broccoli sprout is chewed, it releases an enzyme called murasa kinase. So basically the broccoli sprout sitting with this molecule called Glucoraphanin. Okay, when you eat the broccoli sprout, you release this enzyme called murase kinase, which converts glucoraphanin to sulfur a thing. Easy enough right? So far, so Bottom line is we have known that the second that sulforaphane was discovered by Johns Hopkins, people have been chasing that idea because they're like, that's something that nobody else has tapped on.
Eric Rieger 12:11
It sounds to me like what we're alluding to is a little bit of a stability issue probably long term and how to deliver this if someone isn't going to directly eat juvenile or adolescent broccoli sprouts, right?
Ken Brown 12:24
Correct. So what has been shown by the Johns Hopkins people is that the amount of glucoraphanin which can actually be absorbed to then be converted, right, so now we're talking about just absorbing the glucoraphanin and then converting it is somewhere around two to 15%.
Eric Rieger 12:41
Okay,
Ken Brown 12:41
so extremely poor bio availability. And the biggest problem is that sulforaphane is extremely unstable. So you can't just get a bucket of sulforaphane and just put it there. Yeah. So if you go to Amazon, and I've done this, because when I was looking at sulforaphane got super excited until I started listening to a bunch of other doctors describe all this in scientists, you're gonna find a ton of products out there that say broccoli sprout extract, or they're gonna say sulforaphane. You read the label, it says gluco raffin. Right. Some of them will throw in murasenase and so on. And Johns Hopkins did testing on a lot of these. And Surprise, surprise, most of them did not have even glucoraphanin, let alone sulforaphane. So they came to the conclusion that it's really, really difficult. And we've got these products that are out there, but probably people are wasting their money on most of these
Eric Rieger 13:36
breaking this down. Isn't it possible that maybe even some of those companies that wanted to have the rossin Ace and the gluco would have always butchered
Ken Brown 13:45
glucoraphanin
Eric Rieger 13:46
glucoraphanin. If they wanted to have those available in a delivery system, the instability of these delicate molecules, even if it was tested and shown, it wasn't there, it's probably already changed. It's probably just not stable enough to survive the packaging.
Ken Brown 14:01
Correct. And so even these guys even went so far as to say, Okay, well, maybe the rate maybe they're trying their best maybe they're raising the broccoli sprouts and then they started looking into the broccoli seed business.
Eric Rieger 14:11
Oh, okay
Ken Brown 14:12
oh yeah super cool on this one also. So, Rhonda Patrick goes on a YouTube video and describes all this and says you need to make your own broccoli sprouts. So everybody ran out and started doing this. Awesome. I've even done it myself. Try to do it. And then you find out that Oh, a lot of broccoli seeds that are out there. Don't even have any. They're even not broccoli seeds. They're actually like alfalfa, sprout seeds and really cheap ones. So it comes into that whole thing again, one more time, the supplement industry when you talk about this, unless you're doing third party testing, and looking at that there's a high likelihood that what you're taking is a marketing ploy.
Eric Rieger 14:47
That's unfortunate.
Ken Brown 14:48
Yes, super unfortunate.
Eric Rieger 14:50
It's wastes a lot of people's time. They're trying to get healthy and they're given the wrong thing. Yeah. Now what we want to do here,
Ken Brown 14:55
all right, so this is what gets really exciting. So now really cool. So all of this has been going on up until 2017. So there happens to be one stable sulforaphane product in France called prostu Fein. It is considered a drug and it is used to treat prostate cancer. Right? So in 2017 the only real way to get sulforaphane was to eat broccoli sprouts. Now we have a mutual friend David Roberts, who unfortunately, he is extremely intelligent man with very close ties, but his wife Maura got breast cancer,
Eric Rieger 15:29
yes.
Ken Brown 15:30
And so he took her breast cancer cells took it to his good friend john Gill day and I won't get into the story of this because we're going to have them on as guests right? So I'm just gonna say briefly, why this got developed. It was developed in the most altruistic and cool way they took her breast cancer cells, and they realized that what natural molecules could actually help curtail the cancer, what could kill the cancer and one of the molecules they found was sulforaphane, right? So then it was that's great. So David went out and did the same thing that I would have done he bought a bunch of them. And then since he has the capabilities, he tested them and found out that none of them had sulforaphane. Right. So his good friend, PhD, john Gill day, figured out a way to make the world's only stable and bio available sulforaphane product, which is on the market. And in fact, they have shown through third party testing, that is exactly what they say. They have done this with every single batch and they have the ability to check. This is what I love about this. They have the ability to check on themselves on coworkers on anybody that will come in what the effect was in the bioavailability was and so john, when we met with him, he said, Oh, no, we were checking the dosing, I would just check to see what my NRF two level was. And it would go up within an hour which shows the bioavailability of this. It's doing what you wanted it to do. And what's so cool about this is that it isn't like oh, I took it. It isn't like caffeine where you take it and get an hour's worth of bite. Hit. They showed that when you turn this on, it stays on.
Eric Rieger 17:03
Yes.
Ken Brown 17:03
So what it's like a sinusoidal type wave where you're going to keep this thing going as long as you start supplementing, so that was amazing. And then they started looking at individual markers. So when we talked to john, we said, well, what else have you guys looked at? He's like, Oh, we looked at interleukin six. interleukin six is one of the cytokines which starts the cytokine storm in COVID-19. is like it actively decreases this and we checked it in many different ways. It lowers something called NF Kappa b. Nf. Kappa b is the start of the inflammatory process by controlling that you don't allow a cytokine storm to happen. Obviously, they're looking at things which are related to inflammation. Sure, and then he threw out one little curveball there he's like, Oh, did I ever tell you that it increased BDNF, brain derived neurotrophic factor another dear to my heart molecule,
Eric Rieger 17:51
definitely neuroplasticity,
Ken Brown 17:53
neuroplasticity, and they were able to measure the rise in NRF2 directly at different dosing at different times. So the science is just absolutely beautiful. And then if you start looking at sulforaphane regarding COVID-19 It is well known that sulforaphane, specifically down regulates the docking protein called tmprss two, regardless, the docking protease because right now we're talking protease inhibitors, right? What sulforaphane has actually been shown to do in vitro definitely in vitro is that it can actually prevent if the virus sees the h2 receptor, and it comes here, it has to get close. And then it needs this thing called the TMPRSS to to actually touch the virus and then dock it to the h2 receptor. It Down regulates that.
Eric Rieger 18:53
So it gives the virus less opportunity to infect the cell.
Ken Brown 18:58
It gives the virus less ability to Land, right? It's just like the virus is going around doing this. So keep that in mind because it's super cool. So when the NRF two pathway is on, then you have all aspects of your innate immune health, meaning your immune system starts paying very close attention. So if you have an invader, it knows what to do immediately. So it increases your immune health. It mitigates the cytokine storm by decreasing aisle six, NF Kappa beta and all these other things, right? And that's how you end up protecting your organs. That's how the when the NRF two pathway goes up, this is so cool. So the NRF two pathway sees it and goes, wait a minute, this virus is attaching to the h2 receptor. Everybody downregulate h2. I mean, you want to talk about like a cool sci fi movie. Yeah, go down, follow the NRF two pathway into the cell. It's almost like the Star Wars style where it's like they're actually we are being invaded. We have got tie fighters coming in. They are all able to enter through the h2 receptor downregulate, always to receptors.
Eric Rieger 20:05
So part of the problem of getting sick is when a bunch of cells, they encounter a pathogen quickly, right? And they all become inflamed far quicker than the body can effectively respond, right? That's when things kind of spiral out of control. Correct. So I could I could if we could all picture like the new Dallas Cowboys Stadium, we call it new, because it's 10 years old now. But all 100,000 people want to go inside. They all need to get inside, they all have a ticket. They're ready to go inside. But suddenly, let's just pretend that the stadium is the cell and all of the people come in to watch the game happened to be the virus. Suddenly, the Cowboys say, No, no, no, all of these people might get sick. Let's shut down all of the gates to maybe one or two. And now if you had to funnel all 100,000 people, not from the 60 gates that are all around but just through one or two doors. That's downregulation that's what What our cells are doing in NRF? Two is taking away the availability for that that virus to get into the cell.
Ken Brown 21:06
Yes, that's exactly it. So now imagine you're in a stadium, and you've got 10 entrances, and there's 100,000 people trying to come in. And the stadium happens to be somebody that the stadium does not have a properly functioning NRF two pathway, which means before the game even happened, the stadium probably is bloated and obese. Sure, with some hypertension, sure. I don't know stadiums could do that. And then this one does. And then so what ends up happening is instead of having just 10 designated entrances, yeah, they've just got holes everywhere everywhere.
Eric Rieger 21:39
There's no one's taking tickets,
Ken Brown 21:39
no one's taking tickets you just walk in whenever you want. That's what it is. And that's why when people have unregulated amount of h2 receptors, then that's how you can end up getting so sick so quickly, so fast. So your I love your analogy. The first episode was cutting the the phone line to a bank and this one is football. I don't really know how your mind works, but that's just all
Eric Rieger 22:01
I don't know either. No one knows how this mind works
Ken Brown 22:04
I'm so getting, you know, kind of like I mentioned we're gonna have David and Jonathan we're gonna let them really geek out about this
Eric Rieger 22:11
Great guys too
Ken Brown 22:11
Great guys but the bottom line is that is not sulforaphane is just a molecule that I love. They developed a product called Brock elite BROCELITE which I need to talk to them about that because I recommend it to so many of my patients, and especially when I'm doing telemedicine visits, I say I really need you to just pick up some BROCELITE we need to do this. And without fail, they'll be like okay, Dr. Brown told me to get this broccoli How much do I do? And I'm like no, it's Brock elite. I need to talk to those guys but Brock pause elite Yeah. So but we're gonna have them on to talk about that. So what I love about this show, Eric is that we do these shows and I just start going down these rabbit holes but I'm I'm a better doctor because of it. I learn a lot more because of this. Angie sends me just by Get some buckets of articles. And so I can go through this. So it just got me thinking, like, wait a minute, whenever we talked about the NRF two pathway, whenever anybody's ever talked about it, it's always sulforaphane.
Eric Rieger 23:13
Is there anything else that could help that NRF two pathway?
Ken Brown 23:17
I'm really glad you asked. Because if you didn't, then I'd have nothing else to talk about.
Eric Rieger 23:21
Yeah, we can talk about golf, because you teed it up.
Ken Brown 23:27
Alright, so no more dad jokes. All right, so, um, and so every single show we learn more and more with this, but then I started going down the NRF two pathway and working backwards and deconstructing this, found this incredible article that talked about and this is the actual title of the article published just last month, the potent anti viral effects of the NRF two pathway and how to naturally raise it using polyphenolic compounds.
Eric Rieger 23:55
Okay.
Ken Brown 23:56
All right. So what this article showed is that they first and we've done discuss this on the show. They looked at the potent antiviral effects of polyphenols. They looked at compounds like quercetin and green tea extract. Specifically, they wanted to know that although these polyphenols we've shown multiple times do amazing things to mitigate your immune system. They too are anti aging molecules. And they actually are potent antioxidants. They said, Well, what if some of the benefit of polyphenols is actually due to the NRF two pathway?
Eric Rieger 24:27
That's interesting.
Ken Brown 24:29
Yeah. Interesting. I'm over here. Everyone's looking at sulforaphane. And these guys are like, well wait a minute, which we just got done describing anti aging effects, anti blah, blah, blah, of the NRF two pathway. And what if some of the benefits that we're seeing with these other molecules like polyphenols, right can actually increase the NRF two pathway so these guys looked specifically at that. What they wanted to know is if these polyphenols can increase the NRF two pathway, which will help fight COVID-19 bold statement, love these guys. It's huge. What these researchers were able to show is that these polyphenols can increase the NRF two pathway by blocking the keep one repressor protein. In other words, they allow they get the Think of it this way your NRF two is tied up by a security guard by I don't know, your your the analogy guy, what would it be here?
Eric Rieger 25:29
It just seems like that this is now a second instance of where polyphenols have demonstrated that they run. They're blocking they're blocking for things to continue to happen beneficially, because it also blocks that that particular enzyme that breaks down CBD and or I'm sorry, Nandamind, right.
Ken Brown 25:52
Oh,
Eric Rieger 25:52
and so if we're blocking there, we're also blocking this.
Ken Brown 25:56
Oh,
Eric Rieger 25:56
this little guy here. Keep one.
Ken Brown 25:58
Oh, so cool. I'm glad that you made that leap so quickly. Your mental agility sometimes just impresses me, and just just sports sports analogies. Alright, so I'll say this again, these guys looked at it and they said it does definitely raise the NRF to pathway. We believe it does it in a different way that sulforaphane does. So for fame directly releases NRF two through this crazy biochemical wave. And definitely it is the most effective way to turn on the NRF two pathway. sulforaphane, but these guys showed, hey, when you add polyphenols to it, they take care of the security guard that's holding on to your NRF two and they go, Hey, come here, and they hug they hug the security guard. And so it allows the NRF to to get free, hop in the cell and turn on 250 genes. That's right. When you're under stress, chronic stress, you have more security guards you have more keep one, the more inflammation you have when it Hips, the scale, a little bit of inflammation turns on your NRF to too much inflammation. And for whatever reason the keep one doesn't let the NRF two out. So you spiral downhill quickly.
Eric Rieger 27:11
Interesting. It's almost like a medical term. It's called a negative feedback loop. It's almost enhancing the bad effect, almost enhancing the bad effects.
Ken Brown 27:20
And in addition to the antioxidant properties that they showed with the polyphenols, by keeping the reactive oxygen species lower, that negative feedback loop doesn't happen because the keep one protein doesn't realize that there's chaos going on. So in other words, the polyphenols go, Hey, come here, go ahead and give me a hug. And then the other polyphenols go clean up the mess, clean up the mess. So this guy doesn't get all eager and be like this over aggressive bouncers, security guards.
Eric Rieger 27:48
What a great compliment though, so now we not only know how to enhance the activity of the NRF two, but now we also know how can we allow the NRF two wants the pathways activated to do its job. Better. Oh yes.
Ken Brown 28:01
So if you haven't put it together yet, I'm giving you a secret recipe on how to turn on your NRF two. So once the NRF two is turned on, it'll maximize the effectiveness. And especially when the polyphenols are around and they take care of the antioxidants, the NRF two doesn't have to worry about that. And it turns on more cells saying just go down. Let's let's get all these cells in line, let's really ramp it up, we are ready to do battle. So in conclusion, what they said was the author said that we should be taking certain polyphenols to work as both a direct antiviral, a direct anti inflammatory, and for the first time ever written in literature directly increased the NRF two pathway. That's amazing. It's the first time I've ever come across this. Ultimately, the authors are quoted as saying these results may provide a new method for discovering NRF two activation.
Eric Rieger 28:57
It's just it's quite impressive because we we are feel like we're pressed for information right now because we're living in a pandemic. And we're all trying to find our ways to return to normal. But this stuff doesn't end with the pandemic. This is this is protecting your health and your life and the cells from over inflammation. Anyhow, it just so happens that they're saying, keep this system in your body enhanced, it still works for you do these things. It's still here to protect you.
Ken Brown 29:23
Absolutely. So that was one incredible article. So kudos to those authors. They said, Hey, does does the NRF two pathway help with COVID? Yes. Oh, what are other things that we can do to take this? because very few people even understand that brocelite exists, right? So you've got all these people buying broccoli sprout extracts, which is doing nothing. And now they're saying okay, since now we've got this ability to have a stable so for pain and now we have this ability to have this polyphenol which can actually help free up the NRF too. So it got me thinking, is anyone else looking into this? And as it turns out, I found another super cool publication. Specifically on I'm gonna love this olive oil and wine polyphenols. And it's modulation of the NRF two pathway. That's nice. That's good. That is awesome because these guys showed significant increase in the NRF two activity from the polyphenols in olive oil and in wine. These are the polyphenols that that we work with because they're large, stable polyphenols. The first article was looking at smaller phonology compounds, meaning they're looking at very little small branches, coarse attends a small branch of a larger polyphenols, right, and green tea extract. ecgc is a smaller branch of this large green tea molecule. These guys said, Hey, you know what? We're seeing the same thing. The conclusion is that it's not just the antioxidant effects of these polyphenols that make them incredible, but it's the ability to turn on the NRF two pathway is a novel and new concept that needs to be further investigated. I kind of feel like we're saying stuff. Like, I don't think other people reading these articles because this is nuts what I just said, I just said that large stable polyphenols can turn on your NRF two pathway. Nobody has ever said anything like that to me.
Eric Rieger 31:15
No, I haven't heard that either. But it made me think of something though. We talked about what constitutes a high level CBD source. And one of the things that we've that we've not only talked about, but we've seen clinically, is that full spectrum. CBD tends to be the best method. This is almost like we're endorsing a natural full spectrum, polyphenol source.
Ken Brown 31:39
Ooh, we're gonna get to that. All right. So now at this point, I'm just like, there's no way I'm preparing for this show. I could stop right here and say this is the mic drop, pow. There it is. But I'm like, No, no, there's when you start going down these rabbit holes of research. Then you start looking at the references that other people do and then you start looking at the author's and then Andrew will be like, you're not going to believe it. Check this out. Then she sends me this one, that she found an article looking at alcohol induced liver damage in mice. And if improving the NRF two pathway will help attenuate that. Now this one is relevant. It's relevant for this discussion because although it's not about COVID, these authors are looking at improving the NRF two pathway to improve a chronic disease, alcoholic liver disease. So what these researchers did is they did the same thing that most researchers do when they look at polyphenols they looked at using curcumin curcumin is a polyphenol well known and Baicalin and BAICALIN. Bruce Burnett, which is a PhD that has worked with us. That was one of the molecules he worked with. He's probably saying you're saying it wrong. Probably saying that. Sorry,
Eric Rieger 32:49
sorry Bruce.
Ken Brown 32:50
Yeah, baicalin. I don't know. Whatever. It's something. Those are two small polyphenols and what they showed is they were able to induce alcoholic liver injury tomorrow. And I don't know how they did it. I know what you're gonna say is, I don't know. I don't know what they like to drink. I don't know if it's tequila 512 probably tequila 512 the favorite, the favorite tequila of mice. So tequila five one to check it out. That's Eric's other company. So, what they did is they looked at this and they were shocked to see that each one of those increased or, number one, the mice that received the polyphenol compounds had protection against liver disease, from the alcohol, huge. Then they said, Well, is it the antioxidant effect? Or is it the NRF? Two, then they checked NRF two levels, and the ones that had the most protection had the highest rise of NRF. Two interest huge, then I'm so glad this researcher did this. What if we use both of them? Yeah, so the nine they combined, and guess what they saw better exponential growth of the NRF two, exponential decrease in inflammation and this comes back to something that you and I have talked about so many times, whole plant versus molecular pharmaceuticals.
Eric Rieger 34:07
It's been we've seen it time and time again from from isolated pharmaceuticals, on and on and on. And now we're talking about really just small natural derivatives but still better in their larger state. Right.
Ken Brown 34:18
That's exactly what it is. And so we have talked about this, that we have a very hard time beating Mother Nature. Yeah. And you know, and I realized that the pharmaceutical industry continually does this or they say that molecule does this, we can mass produce it. And I think that in many ways, it works extremely well. And in other ways, I think that we have we're just not smart enough to do this. This is a great example. So I'm gonna throw out a concept here that I don't think a whole lot of scientists are thinking enough about this. The whole plant or the large stable poly phenol. So the large stable poly phenol, knowing that this other study looked at two smaller polyphenols, they said hey, what if we put them both together? Hey, there, we have that look. A study that looked at Whole olive oil polyphenols, which contains many of them whole wine polyphenols, which had tremendous increase in the NRF. Two. So we've got a friend, Sylvia, who's a PhD in Spain. And she published in her thesis, this incredible article where it looked at large table polyphenols like to borracho and then chestnut, to bracha and chestnut. And then she showed what happens when it becomes digested. And then she took those same polyphenols and she put them in a, I guess, a theoretical microbiome. She fermented them, right allowed bacteria to do this. And then she did a mass spectrometry. I'm saying that right about the molecules produced. And it's really cool because guess what happens when they have a large stable polyphenols, you end up producing ecgc which is green tea extract, you end up kicking off course at the end, you end up kicking off these larger tannins which then get broken down in other words, give yourself body, the largest template, let your body decide what it wants to do with it. And so that's kind of my take on this. So kind of kind of thrilling. I think the future of this research is going to be large, stable polyphenols, let your body do what it wants. And it's going to increase the NRF two pathway.
Eric Rieger 36:18
I think that's awesome. And it makes sense. And it just so happens to continually fall in line where Mother Nature knows the answer. They know she knows the way.
Ken Brown 36:27
So here we are, we know that the NRF two pathway is the master regulator and probably one of the major defenses against COVID-19. And we are slowly meeting a whole lot of very influential, important people in this field and one of them is friends with Dr. Fauci. And you said, Man, we need Fauci on here, I want to pin them down and be like, Why? Why aren't you talking about the NRF two pathway or something like that? Just you know? Just why aren't we talking about IVF
Eric Rieger 37:00
idea. It's unfortunate that it took until the last year and a half for us to have these kinds of discussions. Yeah, I mean, but it's it's technically a relatively new discovery compared to other things that everyone's more familiar with. However, I think it's a critical discovery on how we control disease going forward.
Ken Brown 37:19
Yeah, right. And you've probably looked at me like why did you just throw in that weird sort of Southern accent like you don't really in what I like to do around much smarter people is just really hit the I just want to just act like I know absolutely nothing, so I don't have to live up to anything. Yeah, so if Fauci ever came here. I'd be like, wait, why aren't you talking about the NRF pathway? He's like, What in the world? This guy's a doctor.
Eric Rieger 37:40
Yeah, it's interesting how you turn into ross perot.
Ken Brown 37:44
Alright, so anyways, we know the NRF two pathway is a master regulator. It may significantly help fight COVID-19 sulforaphane directly stimulates NRF two polyphenols stimulate NRF to buy in. I didn't Spoiler alert, where you're going there, blocking the inhibitor protein called keep one. Then I went into more detail because I just went down a quick rabbit hole. Guess what else it does was that it up regulates the keep one esterase enzyme that breaks it down. Okay? So just like when you brought up FAAH Yeah. Where polyphenols decrease that this one increases that. Like it's crazy how smart Mother Nature is just crazy. So bottom line is we've got sulforaphane, which directly stimulates NRF two pathway, we've got polyphenols which decrease the inflammatory pathway, same, same sulfur thing. But the polyphenol goes oh look there. So first thing, I'm going to tie up the security guard and let sulforaphane do its job and allow the NRF to to go up. In other words, my question is this. What is my NRF two levels I would love to call up john Gill day Say, let's check mine because nobody's done a study. I just showed two three different studies on polyphenols. Nobody has shown a study on what if a guy like me who's been taking regularly atrantil which is stable polyphenols, and I take brocelite, which is a stable sulforaphane. What is my NRF? Two level? Pretty excited to see what that would be? Because theoretically, I'm, I'm, I've got it ramped up.
Eric Rieger 39:30
What a crazy concept. It kind of made me think of something like an application, you made the reference to the protection of the liver. Right? And for people who have alcoholic induced hepatic issues, so what if, and I'm just throwing this out there, college kids, for instance, what if part of a wellness check was to keep tabs on a college kids in our future? pathway knowing that they if they've already admitted they probably consume alcohol, but you're giving them a barometer saying, look, I, we know that you're young and you're doing this partying, but you need to make certain that you are having this level of protection. Because it seems like a lot of a lot of people understand to protect your liver. Don't don't consume too much Tylenol, for instance. Well, knowing that whatever in your back pocket you also knew, okay, yes, I do hang out with friends, right? enjoy an occasional drink every now and then it may actually consume a little too much. But I need to know that I'm giving my body the defense's, it's necessary to protect my liver that maybe it'd be interesting to use a test like that and make it where it was just the same as checking blood pressure.
Ken Brown 40:41
Oh, I mean, I like where you going with it. But I'm just going to take you to a grander scale right now. Everybody's going back to college. Wouldn't it be amazing if we had some sort of rapid NRF to test and it's like, hey, look, your NRF two is really low. Yeah, I Why don't we Why don't you or before you come to Why don't you Why don't we work on getting that up because you will stand a better chance of not having a significant bad outcome if you were to get exposed to source code to
Eric Rieger 41:10
say it's like a pandemic seatbelt almost it's almost like it's it's it's your it's your shield to go back out into the world and give yourself the best protection possible in addition to the mask.
Ken Brown 41:21
Oh, speaking of best protection, pross possible you were hinting towards the FAAH, FAAH? Ah, we've done a whole podcast on that. That is the enzyme that breaks down your body's own inanda mind right, we can get into that so Oh, yes. found an article went down another rabbit hole now. Yeah, as it turns out, an annamite into ag guess what they do, they turn on the NRF two pathway.
Eric Rieger 41:43
So we want that
Ken Brown 41:44
we want that. So you need a properly functioning endocannabinoid system. You need some polyphenols to help the sulforaphane do it. I mean, if you were to take theoretically, if you took it Broccoli, and KBMD health CBD. It's almost like a great bio hack.
Eric Rieger 42:08
It's not like a great bio hack. I think it is one. I mean, it is anecdotal but everyone I know that takes those almost daily doesn't have COVID
Ken Brown 42:23
to truly truly anecdotal but now all that being said, I mean think about this. So just to sort of recap this the first episode was about how important the NRF two pathway is. And it is super important and we get into the science of it. This one specifically discusses natural products which even if they didn't affect the NRF two pathway are extremely beneficial for you they're extremely or other anti aging anti inflammatory antioxidant we can get into the the polyphenol aspect of how it improves health performance. He increases nitric oxide. Oh no time on this one here but yeah found some articles how certain polyphenols increase BDNF in other words all polyphenols that are checked increase BDNF, BDNF we're going to do a whole episode on that because that's another one of my favorite things to talk about that is something to improve everything's about brain gut to me in everything is burned out if you protect the gut, you protect the brain. And you know, we're going to have a you know,
Eric Rieger 43:24
it should do and we were we've been pretty good about doing this but yes, we do. We do know quite a bit about artron to broccoli and KBMD CBD, but to be fair sources of getting sulforaphane obviously, just like he said, natural real broccoli sprouts, right. The next thing for polyphenols you can get it from fresh fruits and fresh vegetables, polyphenols are those really colorful or the things that make your fruit really, really colorful, and then of course, a reputable CBD. So what I'm saying here is even if you don't use any of the stuff, take that knowledge, find those to supplement your diet daily so that you can arm yourself and be safe. If you can't find one of these for some crazy reason, if you're listening this you should be able to but if you can't find the foods that Mother Nature is providing us all with. And really what we're trying to do is make certain that you're getting your daily dose of all three of those things. Yeah,
Ken Brown 44:19
so if you're sitting there if you have a rainbow light plate, and some sprouts, by the way, sprouts are super easy to grow. This is so if you're not into supplements, you're into the food. A lot of people have great evidence. A lot of people have great tutorial videos of how to make it. I've done it, it's super easy. You just have to make sure that you get the right seed. If you go to the Brocelite.com website. They actually have seeds that they have tested. So they can tell you which brands if you want to get to this kind of a fun thing to do. You got to cut them at around nine days I believe. And that's where it's at because of my lifestyle. I try to eat a healthy diet, but I also understand science like this. So Ah, augmented a little bit. And I try and just push the needle in a healthy direction by taking certain supplements. And the supplements that I take on a regular basis are polyphenols, atrantil, and broccoli, and a few other things that we've discussed on the show to help for viral illnesses, illnesses and such. So the cool thing is that everything that we're describing, about five or six months from now, somebody else will talk about, and then it'll be novel. Yeah. Is it the same thing that happened early on with when I went on wellness Mama, and we were talking about all that stuff? And it was so novel. Yeah, cuz I was like, Oh my gosh, I feel like I'm saying stuff that nobody else is talking about. I'm gonna be this pariah. But I'm standing behind the science and just, it's all about science. I'm not saying Atrantil to Brocelite or KBMD CBD does anything. What I'm saying is the molecules of sulforaphane and poly phenol have been shown to increase the NRF two pathway. That's what I'm saying. What does the NRF two pathway do? Whole lot watch the last episode that we did.
Eric Rieger 46:02
Yeah, I mean COVID file number nine. incredibly important, and honestly, probably we should revisit it post pandemic and just dig even deeper into NRF. Two.
Ken Brown 46:11
I wish we had deeper pockets so that we can just go to certain like right now with all these students going to college we could just show up and be like, well, this college all got Broc, they'll get the biohack combo. And
Eric Rieger 46:23
I'll just compare like a large scale campus just
Ken Brown 46:26
yet just because right now we're seeing all these kids go back to college and they're being sent back home UNC Notre Dame saying that it's anybody back but they're making them basically do the, you know, dorm schooling at Texas Tech, I just wrote a check. So if you want to offset some of that, just by asking us to participate in that, that'd be really cool. I just had a student or I just had a patient that goes to tech today and she said that they had a bunch of cases. So she's not going back Texas Tech is gonna have to every school is gonna have to do this. They're gonna have to play this game.
Eric Rieger 46:56
Wow. Yeah, it's gonna be kind of wild. Hopefully we can just do what we can to give, give ourselves and our family the best opportunity to not get sick.
Ken Brown 47:07
So recap this episode for us, Eric.
Eric Rieger 47:12
Number one, watch episode number nine. Number two, we need our n NRF two pathway to be fully functioning and healthy, just like we talked about ECS hundreds of times, in order for us to be in the best position possible to fight off disease, specifically things similar to COVID-19. And essentially, with a highly functioning NRF two pathway, we can stave off that disease, we can decrease the inflammation and we can actually shut down the ability for things like COVID-19 to make its way to infect our cells. In addition to that, in order for the NRF two pathway to work well. You have to make the conscious decision to take either the supplements or the correct foods to arm your body to give it the tools to make that an Our f2 pathway work. Yeah, really what we said,
Ken Brown 48:02
we're going to be talking to different guests, we're going to be talking to Dr. Tom O'Brien about different diets to protect your gut to protect your brain. What I really like is that our messages is not new. It's not unique, and people are starting to starting to realize it.
Eric Rieger 48:16
Yeah, definitely.
Ken Brown 48:17
So, alright, so part one and RF two, part two. Oh, boy, we've got Natural Ways to Increase your NRF to new to me super excited that I have this information now. And I hope it's exciting for you all. I think it's really important that everyone should share this, please, that we're getting into some very scientific I get that I get it can be a little difficult to listen to, but the gist of it is you need your NRF to improved to lead a very healthy life, you stand a better chance of undergoing some sort of insult including a viral insult. Your body will deal with it better if you have a proper functioning NRF two, so like, share, get this out there.
Eric Rieger 48:58
Wait the way you kind of just said that. Maybe You think of this, we can't sit here and tell you that they a fully functioning NRF two pathway augmented by poly phenol. So if your veins and CBD is necessarily going to stave off all your disease, but I can tell you quite confidently that if you don't have a well functioning enough to pathway, your chance of being really really sick when you're exposed is probably significant.
Ken Brown 49:22
Yeah, and it's significant and if you don't have a functioning NRF two pathway, then your chances of becoming diabetic becoming hypertensive becoming obese, developing cancer, although they definitely do.
Eric Rieger 49:33
So.
Ken Brown 49:34
Awesome. Well, I'm glad that we close this out. Now you have different ways to increase your NRF. To read more about this look at the polyphenols and ultra until these are the stable large polyphenols that we talked about. Look at the science behind Brocelite. That is the world's only stable bioavailable sulforaphane, which we know that we trust these guys. They do third party testing they do everything that we do with atrantil. So that's how come we become Good friends with them and hope to continue to utilize their science they can utilize ours we can help each other we're going to augment everything
Eric Rieger 50:07
Raka lead also has a professional version which is only available if there is a physician on board and it just so happens that at KBMD health this guy is the KB and the KBMD. He is authorized to distribute the professional version of Brocelite. So if you go to KBMD health.com go to the store, you'll find everything that Dr. Brown has laid out available as a supplement to help you build up your NRF two as well as your ECS at KBMD health.
Ken Brown 50:36
Yeah, and the broccoli plus they're smart guys, they actually have another isothiocyanate in there that they figured out helps absorb and they threw in curcumin, polyphenol, right so like when when john hears this, he's just like I've been talking about this for 10 years.
Eric Rieger 50:53
Thank you, john.
Ken Brown 50:55
But that's awesome. Everybody, take care stay safe and yet like share Just get this word out. We, our biggest thing is if we can help one person if we can. I hear it from my patients all the time. Like I feel way better. I'm like, that's awesome. I love it. Absolutely
Eric Rieger 51:10
like and share. That's it. That's gonna do it for COVID number 10. And, well, sorry for the break between also nine and 10. Lots of information. He really was on call last week for the hospital. So when we broke, it just happened to be at that point in time. Anyhow, we'll we'll see y'all next time around.
Ken Brown 51:27
We're good. We're good. Everybody. Stay safe. Much love. Get your sleep, eat well.
Eric Rieger 51:32
Oh, yeah, sorry about the weird offset here. Again, we're in the studio by ourselves. So obviously, it looks kind of odd to me just kind of off the side, rock and fade in and out. But we'll be back next time.
Ken Brown 51:41
Well, fortunately, if you're watching this on YouTube, what you will see is what looks like a mane of hair coming into the picture and then eventually a face joins because Eric has yet to have a COVID haircut. Now I'm not going to
Eric Rieger 51:53
wait to see what happens.
Ken Brown 51:55
All right, everybody. Take care.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
How are you able to stay healthy with the pandemic situation not going away? Maybe your NRF2 pathway loves you that much! Immunity, obesity, and aging... be on the right side of these issues everyday by loving your body and this incredible mechanism that makes a healthy life possible. Join Dr Ken & Eric as they break down how your body is actually fighting to keep you healthy everyday, and what you can do to keep it that way!
Ken Brown 0:00
Welcome, everybody to gut check project, Episode Number 39. A super cool one because my co host is also our guest, the expert, the person that we all love whenever Eric goes out of town on a mountain biking expedition, which is what he's doing right now. So we have the super smart, super well trained Dr. Stuart Akerman as both our expert guest and our host, Dr. Akerman, thanks for coming.
Stuart Akerman 0:27
Ah, thanks for having me here. I was more than happy to pay for Eric's vacation so that I can do this.
Ken Brown 0:33
You are pretty sly like that. That's pretty interesting. You're sort of, you're sort of pushing him out. And so I think that's, you know, he thinks he's having fun.
Stuart Akerman 0:41
I made him think it was his idea. I mean, that was really what came down to.
Ken Brown 0:46
Well, in today's episode, this is really cool because when I said that Dr. Ackerman is both the co host today and our expert is because we're going to tackle a topic that a lot of people have and it is diarrhea specifically related to something called a epi exocrine pancreatic insufficiency and you're like, Huh, I saw a commercial on that. What's that? Exactly. That's what all my patients say. They're like, what is this? They come in and talk about this. So usually whenever Eric and I before we start, Dr. Akerman, what is going on with you and the Akerman family anything personal you want to share?
Stuart Akerman 1:20
Yeah, could share all kinds of things. It's been definitely interesting. And the quarantine life as we now gear up at the end of the summer trying to figure out what do the kids kids are sort of excited to go back to school not sure what they're going to do, but I never thought they'd have this problem that they've actually watched all there is to watch on TV and they need something else to do.
Ken Brown 1:44
That reminds me of I think I saw some funny video where somebody was sitting in front of in front of his computer and it goes, you've done it. You've reached the end of the internet.
Stuart Akerman 1:54
It's kinda like that. There's nothing. You only have so many subscriptions, I guess.
Ken Brown 1:58
Exactly. Yeah, well in the brown household. I took Lucas to a tournament pretty cool. in Wichita Falls, it was a well run tournament. So kudos to the tournament director out there. It was a college tournament. So Lucas out, unfortunately lost in a tough third set tiebreak to a really good player. And you know, we just kind of move on. And we got so excited to talk about what he learned from that. And then by the time we got back to Dallas, they had canceled the national tournament, which is why he was doing this to prepare for the next one. And so we're dealing with that where we try and make plans and keep these the passion up. So
Stuart Akerman 2:37
And you know, when we were talking the other night, I actually realized after we hung up that I wanted to ask Lucas, I mean, I know that it's a junior tournament. So there's no betting and things like that. But there must be some sort of handicapping system right because they are rankings. Where was he ranked in comparison to this kid who's several years older than him?
Ken Brown 2:58
Well, this was actually a college tournament. So it was for college players. And so he's 15 he played a 21 year old and actually they're just on ranking level is they were both on par so the two he's Lucas was the number one seed in the tournament. And that man was the second was the number two seed so it worked out perfect the bracket got the what I consider the two best players to play in the end. And funny you bring that up because him and I were in Panama right when COVID hit because we had to bust out a Panama he was doing what's called an ITF. And I happen to have a friend there in Panama who lives there and has been doing sort of digital marketing and all this stuff. And he was running a betting website. And he goes it's not he goes people from around the world will bet on anything. And then we started talking tennis and he goes the most rigged sport, like for betting where people like there's all kinds of junior level sports that people bet on because they know that they can kind of tilt the odds one way or the other.
Stuart Akerman 3:55
Oh my gosh.
Ken Brown 3:56
There's yeah, it was a whole new world for me. So like when you say that I kind of cringe because I was Just like oh, no, you know, we've got we're going to start like hustling you know peewee baseball and stuff like that.
Stuart Akerman 4:07
I thought I thought about how he took a, you know, someone who's I think five years or six years older than him to the brink and almost beat him.
Ken Brown 4:15
Yeah.
Stuart Akerman 4:16
But has such a competitive spirit to be upset by that.
Ken Brown 4:20
Oh, totally upset, like, on the way home just, you know, I had two match but he had two match points. I had two match points. I just, I just would have you know, I'm like, I know. I know. It's, it's life and what's really cool is that you know, you move on and do that. So I apologize a little bit if I'm a little nasally. I do not know what blew into town, but it is killing my allergies today. So and I, it's not COVID I smell great. Also two things. I don't smell great. But I can still smell things.
Stuart Akerman 4:48
Smell things
Ken Brown 4:49
Smell things. So let's get back at this. So before everybody's like, well, they're just gonna talk about their family the whole time, I want to reiterate something so we stole Dr. Akerman four years ago, three years ago.
Stuart Akerman 5:01
Five years ago.
Ken Brown 5:02
Holy cow time passes fast. We stole him from New York because he is a specially trained expert in advanced endoscopy. So he does the things that most of us have not been trained in. And a lot of that involves the pancreas. So you and I got to talking and we had a patient recently who showed up to have her endoscopy done and she said, Hey, do I have this? And I called you in and you looked at that unlike epi exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, I'm like, man, if these drug companies are spending so much time advertising for it, we better just address this head on and let's just have an episode you're a pancreas expert. I'm more of a lumenologists is how I like to consider myself and so the lumen I like colons and I like stomachs and and hemorrhoids but you are an advanced trained person that everybody if you have a pancreas call up Dr. Akerman and make sure that your pancreas is okay. So hat you know, that's what I'm saying.
Stuart Akerman 5:58
Yeah, so this is definitely something that's getting a lot of press. And, you know, if you look around TV, internet, I mean, it feels like the ads are just constantly jumping at you. And it's something that it gives everyone pause that has diarrhea. And, you know, there are different estimates, but more than 5% in a conservative estimate more than 5% of the population deals with chronic diarrhea in some form. And you know, 5% is a lot of people and not everyone gets to the bottom of what's going on with them and gets that relief and that, that feeling that they know exactly what it is and how to deal with it. And for years, pretty much we knew about inflammatory bowel disease and knew how to evaluate for it and rule it out. And then there's kind of a short list, you know, all we look for what we have, you don't have any of that you probably have IBS.
Ken Brown 6:51
Oh the famous, you probably have IBS, so that's my world where everybody comes says, I have IBS and if you're somebody if you're 20% of the population that suffers from irritable bowel syndrome. It can be diarrhea, constipation or mixed. And you may be one of those frustrated people that you go into your doctor, you have an endoscopy, colonoscopy and some bloodwork you get pat on the head and you go good news. It's just IBS you leave and you're still miserable. And I think that's why there's so many commercials going on here where it's like, look, maybe we're not thinking hard enough on some of this stuff, my world is SIBO bacterial overgrowth, your world is pancreas, and so that's why you're the expert on this. And so, let's do let's not make this too sciency. I know that we all you're still in the office. I love that you just got done doing telemedicine. And if anybody, doc, go to Dr. Akerman's website, set up a telemedicine visit if you're concerned about this, because he's the expert. So let's hop right in. I'm going to start interviewing you less as a co host more as an expert. So what is your standard workup? I'm gonna start from the beginning on diarrhea. Somebody comes in and said I've had diarrhea for two weeks, do you care? Do you like that you call that chronic diarrhea versus the person says I've had diarrhea for a year?
Stuart Akerman 8:07
Right. So that's actually a great way to start the question because what makes something chronic? And it seems to be accepted that if it's four weeks or longer, you're dealing with chronic diarrhea. So the first thing I want to do when a patient comes in, I want to get a sense of what this means to them when they say they have diarrhea. That means 10 different things to 10 different people. And that could be part of the reason why it's so difficult to get the right workup. It's it's trying to fit a square peg into a circle hole. And you got to make sure that everything lines up. So one of the most important things to do is get a sense from the patient. What's bothering them, what does it mean to them? Are you saying you have diarrhea because your stools are loose? Are you saying you have diarrhea because you go 10 times a day? How does it work? Is it when you eat if you don't eat you're fine? Do you go no matter what you wake up five times a night to go to the bathroom even though nothing else has been going on? These are things that you can tease out that might send you along different paths in the workup.
Ken Brown 9:10
And when you say tease out, that's the art of somebody that understands their craft really well. This is why we can still do telemedicine and be effective because that history, the patient history tells a story, you have become a detective. And you're going to get to the bottom of this. All those questions you just asked, are all things: have you traveled? Has this happened? Do you wake up at night? Those are all the same things I ask. So you start kind of moving to this area. So all right. So I'm going to play patient, I'm going to say I've had this for six months. I don't wake up. I use the restroom afterwards. And I just feel like I'm not absorbing things.
Stuart Akerman 9:50
Right. So that is definitely a classic paradigm for epi. And, you know, I think it's important that we kind of define what that means if you have exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. I thought about it this morning. And I was trying to think about what would be a good way to explain it that would really resonate with our viewers as to how you might have epi. I think, I think the classic reason to have is you burnt out your pancreas, you have chronic pancreatitis, the pancreas is very scarred, it can't work. I think it's very easy to understand that if your pancreas is impaired in some way, that the function of it isn't going to be that great either.
Ken Brown 10:32
So let me let me stop you right there because we're going to get into that in a second because we're gonna start with step one. Step one is you're a pancreas expert. Why are people using this acronym epi? Because the pancreas does a lot of really important things. It has the endocrine function, and it has an exocrine function define what those two are.
Stuart Akerman 10:52
Sure. So the endocrine function is essentially your insulin. So if your endocrine function is impaired, that means You have a low insulin level. And that's actually what type one diabetes is, right? You're not making enough insulin. So the answer is how do you fix that? Take insulin, right? If your pancreas can't produce it for you, you can take it and essentially help it out. That's the endocrine side. The exocrine side when we talk about pancreatic exocrine insufficiency is related more to direct digestion of carbohydrates, fats, and to some degree proteins. And those are what are called lipases, proteases and amylases. And there are varying concentrations of each of them that are spit out by the pancreas in response to stimulus which is eating.
Ken Brown 11:42
So I eat something I eat a hamburger, I've got bun, meat, cheese, eat it, swallow it.
Stuart Akerman 11:50
Well, that's you. I wouldn't have cheese in there. But that's me.
Ken Brown 11:54
But so we've got protein, fat and carbs and through really beautiful complex signaling the pancreas then releases these digestive enzymes.
Stuart Akerman 12:04
Correct.
Ken Brown 12:05
Known as the execution portion of it.
Stuart Akerman 12:07
Correct.
Ken Brown 12:08
Okay. So exocrine portion. So if I have an exocrine insufficiency, meaning maybe I'm not putting out enough enzyme,
Stuart Akerman 12:18
Right? So either you're not putting out enough, or maybe you're not getting to the point of the bowel where you would do that, for instance, in surgical procedures that bypass the area where you would spit out the exocrine pancreatic enzymes, you'll end up with an insufficiency which essentially boils down to a mal digestive disorder.
Ken Brown 12:45
So a malabsorption. So people don't are not getting these nutrients. So we've got an exocrine pancreatic insufficiency: epi. So when I do my workup, and I go, you know, Dr. Akerman, it looks like there's some unusual things going on with this patient that I think I need your assistance with. They are low on their vitamin K, their vitamin E, their vitamin D, they've got, they're describing oily stools. That is how I've been classically taught what epi is. What the commercials are saying is they're casting a broad net. They're like if you've got bloating, abdominal cramping, and change in bowel habits, ask your doctor about epi. And I'm gonna close this out as to why I think they're casting such a broad net in the end, but we're going to still talk about the physiology pathophysiology. So it sounds a lot like irritable bowel syndrome, these commercials.
Stuart Akerman 13:42
Right, and and there's tons of overlap. So if I had to say, what's the single largest diagnosis or the largest swath of patients with a specific diagnosis that are going to overlap, it's going to be irritable bowel, right. You're bloated, you're gassy. You're having loose stools. You don't quite feel good after you eat. These are all signs of both irritable bowel because of a sensitivity issue when you eat, but also a malabsorptive this issue at the same time, so those symptoms alone won't quite make it. What you alluded to is someone who has fairly advanced disease so that when they eat, they really aren't producing any enzymes. So everything's going to come out in particular fat. So those fat soluble vitamins A, D, E, and K, are going to be more susceptible to deficiencies, and you'll actually sometimes see what looks like fat or oil droplets in the bowl with the stool because you can't absorb the fat appropriately.
Ken Brown 14:44
Yeah, exactly. I and this isn't just an issue of a gastroenterologist when I was looking this up I got on YouTube to see like what other people have said about this. And my friend and author Rob Wolf, he, he was doing a whole thing a q&a. And that was a question. I'm seeing all these commercials coming up on this on his YouTube channel. He was like this is coming up a whole lot. And so he addressed the exact same thing and discussed the endocrine the exocrine. So shout out to him for taking that on because it's, it's clearly reaching the masses right now. So, we just want to demystify this, talk about now we know what the symptoms are, which can be pretty broad. Let's talk about some causes. So you were getting into the causes before. So let's talk about causes of what can actually cause true exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. And then we'll talk about non pancreatic causes, and then talk about diagnosis and then ultimately, the treatment. Sound fair?
Stuart Akerman 15:41
Right. Yeah, that sounds great. So pancreatic causes probably the single biggest cause would be chronic pancreatitis. So chronic pancreatitis is an issue where you start laying down scar tissue within the pancreas. And, you know, it doesn't in general happen overnight. I mean, you could theoretically get a major inflammatory episode or a trauma, that that could really give your pancreas a hit all in one fell swoop. But, in general, this is something that happens over time. It's kind of like laying the groundwork and the scaffolding and eventually it keeps building up. So...
Ken Brown 16:19
Why...you deal with the pancreas, you deal with pancreatitis. What is pancreatitis? And why do I care about that?
Stuart Akerman 16:26
So there's two kinds of pancreatitis. There's acute pancreatitis and chronic pancreatitis, and they're not the same thing. And they're often confused and they're actually distinct entities. They can relate to each other. But the mechanisms are different. When you have severe pain, and you show up to an emergency room and they do a CAT scan and tell you oh, you got acute pancreatitis. What that means is your pancreas is inflamed. It might be swollen, there's a lot of fluid around it. It's an inflammatory process. But when you have chronic pancreatitis chronic pancreatitis means that it's scarred, it's shriveled. The word they use a lot of times is atrophied, or sometimes calcification. Now you can have both. You can have chronic pancreatitis and have a pancreas that's a little bit shriveled and then gets inflamed. And we call that acute on chronic pancreatitis and it may make your threshold to get acute pancreatitis a lot lower.
Ken Brown 17:25
And people that have ever had this are nodding going, that's not fun at all. pancreatitis is a very serious issue.
Stuart Akerman 17:31
Yeah, we don't wish it upon anybody.
Ken Brown 17:33
No, not upon anybody. Okay, so that's what pancreatitis is. As a gastroenterologist that deals in this what, what are some of the causes of chronic pancreatitis? Actually, I think that I mean, acute and chronic, the causes are the same. It's just the repetity of insults correct.
Stuart Akerman 17:52
For the most part, I'd say you know, the, the two most common causes for acute pancreatitis in America are Alcohol and gallstones. And if you continue to get like you said if you continue to get acute injury is acute pancreatitis, you're going to keep developing more and more scars as a result and you'll end up with chronic pancreatitis. I'd say one thing that has not really been shown to cause acute pancreatitis, but is very much in the conversation for chronic pancreatitis is smoking. We have patients who have chronic smoking over time. Never had an acute pancreatitis episode ever develop EPI or chronic abdominal pain and in the process of the workup are found to have chronic pancreatitis and the risk factor they have is chronic smoker.
Ken Brown 18:42
That's something that I've never actually come across and do you have an etiology of why you think smoking does that?
Stuart Akerman 18:48
So it's tough to say but I mean, we do know that physiologically, smoking does lead to scar it's been seen in many organs.
Ken Brown 18:56
So hold on, let me write this down. So smoking is not good for you. Is that what you're saying?
Stuart Akerman 19:00
I think it's something I'm pretty comfortable putting my stamp on as a physician.
Ken Brown 19:04
I mean we're in a really political environment. You better feel strong about it.
Stuart Akerman 19:09
Yeah, I don't know. I don't want any of the big tobacco companies coming after me. I'd say from a from a medical perspective, there's not much good that comes from it.
Ken Brown 19:20
Okay. So mostly from just the inflammatory process.
Stuart Akerman 19:23
It seems to be, it seems to be, but it's been it's been linked to many cancers and various organs that are unrelated to each other and chronic scar. We've seen that too the pancreas being one of them.
Ken Brown 19:36
Okay, so pancreatitis of the acute can lead to chronic correct. So if you have an acute episode, you may end up with a slightly chronic one. If you continue to drink or smoke, you can end up developing this. Are there any other disease states related to chronic pancreatitis?
Stuart Akerman 19:55
So there's a there's a viral states we have something called tropical pancreatitis not really seen so much in North America. More more seen in the in the eastern countries. One of the autoimmune disease. The pancreas is one of the organs that can be affected by autoimmune disease. So patients who already have one autoimmune disease be that autoimmune thyroid disease, rheumatoid arthritis or other arthritities these are always more susceptible to getting a second autoimmune disease and the pancreas and sometimes the liver are the ones that we deal with. And then actually high triglyceride levels. That's actually the number three it's a distant third in comparison to the first two but that's the third most common reason for recurrent pancreatitis is hypertriglyceridemia or high triglyceride levels and you know, I'm not talking like you know, you got a little bit of an elevation and your doc tells you that you probably should cut down on the fast food and maybe exercise a little more but significantly elevated sometimes in the thousands,
Ken Brown 21:01
So my experience has been and you've seen so much more of this, but it seems like these are young people with a some sort of genetic issue and they have these hypertriglyceridemia. And it's usually really bad that first episode. Have you seen similar episode or similar findings?
Stuart Akerman 21:18
Yeah. And occasionally, it's so bad that we actually have to do almost a dialysis type procedure to get the triglycerides out of their blood, just so that it stops inflaming their pancreas and they can get over it. And then from there, we can try medications to keep it down. But yeah, sometimes it's just so overworked that they're just in the throes of it and we just have to break that cycle.
Ken Brown 21:43
And then last thing is that I have a large inflammatory bowel disease, population Crohn's disease, and it has been associated with that. Is that just part of the autoimmune process that you were just talking about?
Stuart Akerman 21:52
Yea it seems to be that there's some some part of the autoimmune cascade there because we do know, you know, as much as we know so much about Crohn's disease. There's so much that we don't know. But it's it's fairly clear at this point that there's an autoimmune component in addition to environmental ones. And it's possible that that overlap is where the elevated pancreatitis risk comes because we do see what's called igg mediated which is another way of saying autoimmune disorders of the pancreas and bile ducts and liver in relation to Crohn's and ulcerative colitis.
Ken Brown 22:26
The infamous before you arrive. Dr. Goldsmith, make sure you're checking igg four on that person.
Stuart Akerman 22:32
Yeah.
Ken Brown 22:32
Subtype that could potentially affect the pancreas.
Stuart Akerman 22:34
There's a method to it.
Ken Brown 22:36
Yeah. All right. So now I'm worried. I've got some I smoked a cigarette yesterday. I had had a drink of my buddies. I go poop and my my stool is floating. This is kind of a trick question. Is that pancreatic insufficiency?
Stuart Akerman 22:55
Not necessarily. I mean, everyone's entitled to have floating poops every once in a while. More commonly, it's actually related to just some gas that's stuck in the stool and therefore it's not truly as solid as it may look. And it's floating, any kind of, you know, malabsorptive issue, even if it's transient, like something you ate that you didn't quite digest well, or maybe you had a passing viral illness can cause very similar symptoms. So the chronicity establishing that this has been going on is a really major piece of the puzzle before you go down that road to worry about it.
Ken Brown 23:27
So I throw that out there because I was traveling and I got called by some men's health or something, hey, we're doing this article on stools. But we want you to comment on what is floating stools mean, so I had to like sit in an airport, you know, log into their Wi Fi and then like type this response and it was about air. And because of that I came across an article when when we were preparing for this epi that a very fun I call this my fun stool fact it's that many people believe that floating stools is related to pancreatic insufficiency or malabsorption. The reality is stools sticking to the toilet bowl have been more associated with steatorrhea or more lipid or more you're passing oil and fats. So I thought that was kind of fun.
Stuart Akerman 24:09
It greases that adherence to the bowl.
Ken Brown 24:11
Isn't that funny? So I have all these patients go I saw my stool floating and I'm like, okay, that's right. All right. So...
Stuart Akerman 24:18
I'm curious to know what your Google searches look like now that you did that in a in an airport.
Ken Brown 24:23
Oh, forget about the Google searches. You got to see the ads I'm getting. I'm being haunted by some really scary ads right now. But the good digital marketers to profile me and then track me down. So so we know what pancreatic insufficiency is. I want to know, are there some other things that can cause similar looking symptoms before I make an appointment with Dr. Stuart Akerman to really determine if I have this are there non pancreatic causes that can do stuff like this?
Stuart Akerman 24:58
Yeah, and that's the idea we talk about when you see when you see any kind of provider about building what's called a differential diagnosis. So differential diagnosis being these are the, all the things in the realm of possibility might be going on. And we need to have a plan of attack to figure out which ones make more sense and which ones don't. And in this situation, you got to think about IBS, you got to think about celiac disease, you got to think about bile salt diarrhea, then there's your sort of very random ones, like neuro endocrine tumors, IBD doesn't really play in usually, in most cases, but if you have some mild Crohn's disease of the small bowel and may be essentially causing a malabsorptive problem, the symptoms might overlap. And that's where the art of medicine really comes in. You know, rather than saying, well, why don't we just test for everything and see what sticks. You really sit there and take everything into account of your patient. So that you can make a more focused differential diagnosis. How often are they going? What does it look like? Is it waking them up at night? What medications are they taking? Is there something new or different that might be causing the problem? Have they recently traveled? And you take all that into the hopper and see what comes out.
Ken Brown 26:18
Now that is an absolutely great answer. So there are non pancreatic causes. So if you're having something like this, go to a very experienced board certified gastroenterologist to ask all those questions and figure out where, okay, so now the patient's seen you, you've asked the questions, you're still very suspicious. What do you do with the patient then if you're still concerned that this could be epi exocrine pancreatic insufficiency?
Stuart Akerman 26:46
So nowadays, there's actually a really nice, really easy test that you can do as sort of your gateway for epi evaluation, and that's called a pancreatic elastase. It's actually a stool study. To sort of say it in a quick blunt way, if your pancreas is working, you should be making so much excess enzyme that you should be pooping it out. And we would love to test that. And basically you send a stool sample, they check for this pancreatic elastase. And your levels should be really, really high if things are working well. You should be doing so well, your your pancreatic elastase rich. But if that number is coming down, if that number is lower, that's a sign that you're just not functioning appropriately, you're not able to produce enough to meet demand. And that's where the concern for epi comes in.
Ken Brown 27:40
So a couple things I love about that. Number one, you said we would love to test that. So for everybody listening, when you see a gastroenterologist, and you go, oh, I'm so embarrassed about talking about this. No, we love to hear that because when you go, doc, I don't want to. I'm super embarrassed, but when I go poop, it looks like you poured olive oil in there, I'm like, yes, do you have a picture of it? That's awesome. Let's talk about that. So when you say we love to test that, the beauty of elastase the test that researchers have figured out is that it remains essentially intact. Elastase one remains intact through the digestive process. So your pancreas puts it out and you can look at that. So when you're low, you're definitely low. It's not like your body's absorbing it. It's that it should be in the stool, one particular part of the elastase. So pancreatic elastase. That's awesome. Because for boards, meaning like when all of us take our medicine boards, they always ask the really hard questions like, hey, you're worried about chronic pancreatitis? Should you do these other invasive tests? So you've been trained in all these invasive tests, one of the few doctors in the DFW Metroplex that have I think there's just a handful or however many of you guys exist, which are the advanced endoscopists have actually been taught this stuff. So in case you're at an academic center in case you get an elastase, which is up is there ever a reason to do one of these invasive tests?
Stuart Akerman 29:03
So if the elastase is up, that's normal.
Ken Brown 29:05
I'm sorry. Low, yea low.
Stuart Akerman 29:07
Yeah. So just to just to clarify that, so if it's up, that's where you want to be, right? Like I said, you want to be elastase rich, but if it's a low, because the most common reason for epi is chronic pancreatitis, and often on the standard cross sectional imaging studies like CT scan, and MRI, the only way they're really diagnosing chronic pancreatitis is if you have some of the signs of full blown advanced pancreatitis like shriveling of your pancreas, or calcification, so if you don't have those, it just means that you we know you don't have advanced chronic calcific pancreatitis, but it's a spectrum of disease. And we don't know if you've got mild or moderate disease just based on an MRI or CT and that's where endoscopic ultrasound comes in. Because endoscopic ultrasound where we're using endoscopy with an ultrasound probe attached to the bottom allows us to look at the pancreas from the inside sort of to get almost to...
Ken Brown 30:09
Let me clarify here so you've got our standard endoscopic equipment. And on the very end, a very really cool special tiny ultrasound. So if you have ever had an ultrasound on your gallbladder from the outside or if you've ever had a baby and they ultrasound, you're taking an ultrasound inside the body which is...
Stuart Akerman 30:31
And you say it a lot more eloquently than I do. I usually just say it's a endoscope with a little nubbin on the tip. That's an ultrasound.
Ken Brown 30:40
Well, I mean, the reason why I think you always downplay this particular aspect but even me as a gastroenterologist, I call you up all the time and I say, hey, I've got this does this warrant an endoscopic ultrasound and I would do that with some other partners in our group, Dr. Goldsmith, Dr. Bob Anderson. People like that. I'm like, hey, I have a young man for no reason developed pancreatitis doesn't warrant an ultrasound. And the reason why I bring this up because a lot of people never talk about this. It's a very relatively safe non invasive procedure compared to other things to do.
Stuart Akerman 31:13
Yeah, when I speak to patients, I pretty much tell them the risk profile is no different than having a regular endoscopy. There's no risk to your pancreas from the ultrasound waves. They're just sonic waves. So we don't have to worry that by evaluating we could potentially cause trouble.
Ken Brown 31:31
Yeah. So when I see these commercials ask your doctor about epi. The next thing they should say is either I'm gonna learn about epi, or I'm just gonna send them to Dr. Akerman so that he can figure out if it's something that needs an eus or not.
Stuart Akerman 31:46
Yeah, and I love talking about it. I you know, it's not to say that every single person who walks into the office and says, do I have epi. I'm going to go say, well, let's run the gamut. Let's do every test. Let's figure it out. You need an endoscopy before I can answer that, I'm gonna sit there and talk to the patient and get a sense of is this diarrhea or not? Because probably one of the more common scenarios is they don't actually have diarrhea. They might have some mild bowel habit changes, that to them feels like it's diarrhea, but you can tease out right away. Maybe it's a supplement, maybe they're taking a sugar substitute that doesn't agree with them, and they're mal absorbing it. And if by pulling that out, all of a sudden, magically, their stools are better. You know, there's not not every time is the diarrhea warranting of this large workup. But the flip side to that is patients who have carried this diagnosis of IBS for years. Well before we had good endoscopic ultrasound, well before we had pancreatic elastase and some of the other stool tests that we use nowadays, it might be that in 1995, that was the best we could do to say hey, you have IBS. And now, in 2020, we have a lot of a lot more tools at our disposal to maybe fine tune that and get them the right diagnosis and therefore a better treatment regimen that's going to make them feel better.
Ken Brown 33:12
Absolutely. So I have these people that come in and we, I ask all those same questions and we go through that, did you have a significant change? Remember that some of the other non pancreatic things like bacterial overgrowth, SIBO can actually cause...also. So now this kind of comes to the point of okay, we've talked about what it is we've looked at how to diagnose it. And now I'm, I'm my question to you, because I'm obviously biased, and it's a leading question here. Why are the drug companies spending? I'm gonna say, I mean, we advertise and I know what it costs to advertise, I'm gonna say 10s of millions of dollars, saying ask your doctor about epi, why are they doing that?
Stuart Akerman 33:53
Well, I mean, you know, death to leading question. You know, there's money to be made, right? Anytime. There's money to be made. But I think one of the biggest reasons is, is that it's been so low key and under diagnosed for so long that the potential for a patient base that doesn't even know they exist, is I don't want to say infinite because there's only so many people, but it's vast. So all these people who may never have been brought to get one of these pancreatic enzyme replacements, and therefore not spend money on a therapy that potentially could help them, all of a sudden, now the curtains are drawn, right, the doors are open, and they have this whole new potential patient base to help.
Ken Brown 34:41
Absolutely, much like celiac disease where we said, Oh, it's so rare, and then we realize, Oh, no, we went from, you know, .04% of the population to 1%, to oh, possibly 3% and so on and so on. So I agree with that. I also did a little experiment here. The pancreas, the pharmaceutical pancreatic enzymes. which are available can be a little expensive. And that's something that I think it needs to be addressed here. Because if doctors go oh, this sounds like I think my opinion is that these commercials are drawn to say if you have change in bowel habit bloating, talk to your doctor about epi. That's a loaded question. You're telling the patient to drive the doctor and say, well, I don't know what the heck, let's try it. So on good Rx, if you pay cash, the starting dose of the major pancreatic enzymes, which are porcine and bovine derived, meaning pig, and/or cow derived, this was a little shocking to me, it's basically about averages to about $10 per pill. So if you start out the starting dose, that's going to be $2,700 a month, if you go to the maximum dose, that's going to be $5,400 a month, cash price, lots of things involved. Fortunately, we both work with these companies and they do amazing jobs of trying to give refunds and things like that. So kudos to that. I'm a little bit scared that they're going to get a bunch of doctors that knee jerk and say well try this and see what happens. That's one of my issues.
Stuart Akerman 36:07
Yeah. So I do think it's important to have a diagnosis to be working with, rather than the let's throw it out them and see if it works approach, specifically for that purpose because it's expensive. But if you know that it's going to get your patient the symptom relief that they need, you're going to fight for that patient, you're going to talk to their insurance company, you're going to talk to the pharmaceutical company. They do like you mentioned, they do have robust programs for patient assistance, but that doesn't cover everybody. If you're going to them and saying, hey, I want to see if it works, it's going to be hard to justify spending $2,000 a month on that. But if you go to them and say hey, this lady has a pancreatic elastase that's super low. She's got all the right symptoms. On imaging. It looks like her pancreas doesn't quite look right. She's got mild or moderate chronic pancreatitis, this is your patient. This is the patient that's going to derive benefit from your drug. They want that because it does cut both ways. Right? You have a patient that does really well, that patient is going to tell everyone about how awesome they're doing on this drug because they got the right diagnosis. That's gonna help them just as much as any marketing they do on Facebook or Google.
Ken Brown 37:26
Yeah, absolutely. Now I'm gonna ask you a question that I don't think there's an answer because I tried to look this is more of a opinion. I get asked all the time by my patients. Well, do you want me to try this I do a lot of sampling and pancreatic enzymes because I believe that there are other these extra pancreatic causes which can actually affect your pancreatic enzymes. And they will say oh, I'm already on this life extension digestive enzyme. Look, here's the label it has it says it has lipase says it has tryptase says it has amylase I have contacted them. I've contacted the pharmaceutical companies and I'm like, can you please give me a statement to define plant based digestive enzymes versus the pharmaceutical bovine and or porsine? Have you ever thought about that before?
Stuart Akerman 38:17
So I have, and I can't answer it. It's gonna it's gonna sound like I'm skirting the issue. The short answer is I can't. But what I can say that I've seen with many of these, when patients come to me and say, oh, I have this naturally derived one that I'm using, very often, the amount of enzyme that they're taking is significantly lower than what we know they need. So we talk about standard dosing in the order of thousands 70,000 100,000 units with each meal. And in many of these, they'll show me yeah, I'm taking a hit. Four capsules, and each capsule has 1000 or 3000 units. So they're getting significantly under dosed. And this is not unique to say, oh, you know, plant based ones are just not quite as strong as some of the other ones that are produced by the pharmaceutical companies. I get this from second opinion and third opinion patients sometimes who say, I have chronic pancreatitis, I have pancreatic insufficiency. The enzymes don't work for me, what am I doing wrong? And eight out of 10 times nine out of 10 times the answer is really simple. You're under dosed. Because we're not trained as as as patients to think I need to take six or eight or 10 pills a day for this problem. We want the one pill or the one pill twice a day. And that's how we're conditioned to think is a standard regimen which is true of most medications. But in this situation because the problem is every time you eat you mal absorb, you need to take something every time you eat. And if we gave you the correct amount of enzyme in one capsule, you'd choke on it because it would be huge! So we got to break it down and give you smaller capsules. But it's just math. So you got to take enough capsules to give you the amount of enzyme you need with each meal.
Ken Brown 40:26
That is great. That is a great answer. All right, Dr. Akerman. I think that we have taken on a pretty big topic and done it in a relatively quick expeditious manner. I want to thank you so much for taking the time. Where can people contact you because they're right now going, I have that somebody's sitting on a toilet, eating a hamburger smoking a cigarette going, it's sticking to the bowl. Oh, man.
Stuart Akerman 40:50
Living life.
Ken Brown 40:53
How do they find you?
Stuart Akerman 40:55
So the easiest way is to go through my website. It's www.stuartakermanMD.com. And there's a an appointment tab and a contact us tab. Either one works great and my staff will get the request and contact you right away.
Ken Brown 41:14
And I will say that we are part of a great group digestive health associates of Texas and we funnel or at least in this area, everyone funnels these tough cases. Dr. Akerman and you're obviously getting a great idea of his personality and he treats all his patients phenomenally but he's also endoscopically fantastic. I want to do a quick shout out once again, I mentioned him earlier but Rob Wolf, author podcaster and influencer. He, I loved that he did a whole episode on epi but more than that, I want to shout out to him because my son at this tournament in Wichita Falls, it was 103 degrees. The heat index is 110 and my son uses his lmnt element, electrolytes while he's out there hitting. So maybe that's one of the reasons why a 15 year olds taking on a 21 year old so thank you at Rob Wolf. And finally go to kbmdhealth.com. Download a free understanding your endocannabinoid system, even if you don't want to understand that the reason why is because then we can stay in touch. And you can ask questions like this like, hey, can you ask Dr. Akerman should I be worried that there's pancreatic cancer in my family? Hey, can you ask someone so we have access to experts, we can do this. Can you ask Rob Wolf, I want to do a keto diet. What do I do with this? So these are ways to stay in touch we want to interact. As always, whenever we mention anything, we're two doctors, but we are not your doctor. So this is for advice for entertainment. If you do have any of these issues, please discuss with your doctor. We are not giving medical advice. And finally, much love to everyone that listens to this, watches this. And please share, like, do a little thumbs up on wherever it's supposed to happen, like all the podcast platforms. So all in all, I think this is a great way to clarify something that has been very vague in the mainstream media. Thank you once again, Dr. Akerman.
Stuart Akerman 43:13
Thanks for having me.
Ken Brown 43:15
Bye, everybody. Stay safe.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Hello gut check project fans and KBMD health family It is now time for COVID believe it or not episode installment number eight. We can't escape it. It will not go away this this is going to be probably the most controversial episode to date that we've ever done on on COVID. Your co host here, Dr. Kenneth brown along with me, Eric Rieger. Ken, what's happening?
Not much, Eric. I mean, this is this this episode the way that we're getting into some murky waters. Now we're talking about some controversial things here. And, you know, after watching that video of that Scottsdale woman, barge into the target, and tear apart that mass display. She was wearing that $40,000 watch and it really got me wondering, What is she doing shopping at target with a $40,000 watch on I mean isn't that more of a Neiman's thing or she used to be tearing apart the mask station at Neiman's or I don't know.
You'd think you could use that watch to get somebody to go shopping for you.
It's just such an odd world we're living in. All of this stuff is being captured. And it's not like somebody filmed her. She sent out front filmed herself said this is what I'm gonna do. With a $40,000 watch on. I'm gonna go into this target and I'm gonna destroy this mask display because masks. So Eric Rieger this episode is controversial. What are we going to talk about today?
Well, it sounds to me like we're going to be talking about Karens on Reddit. Is that right?
No, not even close we're gonna be talking about.
Honestly you know what I'll get we got some fans out there and I know two friends of mine whose names are Karen and I think that sucks that they always have to be under fire for a good name.
Oh, your poor Karen friends. They're taking a beating right now.
Ridiculous. But regardless, so no, Karen's on Reddit, what are we going to be doing?
Well, we're gonna talk about masks, and we're just gonna kick some science like we always do. So this isn't a political thing. This isn't a controversial Well, it's controversial for some people. And I don't really understand why because I just want to go over the science of this. So before we get into that, let's talk about what's going on locally. And certainly one thing happened that you and I could not participate in, and it's our good friend, Nick and Jessica's wedding that happened on Friday. Why? Because big shout out to them. Congratulations. That's awesome. Nick is one of our most valued employees. He started the company with us. Love the fact that he got married and I hate the fact that you and I couldn't go.
Yeah, unfortunately, the procedure center that we do all of the endoscopies at...we had a confirmed at least two cases of people that came through we were advised as healthcare providers that we needed to be diligent for at least five days and make certain that we did not insert our presence into crowds of more than 10 publicly and that was, I mean, not to be able to go and support someone that we care a lot about such as Nick and then his new wife Jessica was no fun at all. But on top of that, it also led to doing next to nothing for five days over the Fourth of July weekend. So our freedom was basically sit at home and just trying to get people sick.
That's exactly it. I've got a great firework display of me with a one of those little sparklers in my backyard alone.
Yeah, that's that's about as far as is it gotta be here. We fortunately I live in the country. So there is a handful of folks who shot off fireworks but that pretty much concluded the Fourth of July weekend for 2020.
A quick shout out to my mom just turned 78 on July 4th, got a bunch of pitches from her love the fact that she's still kicking it staining her own deck staining her own deck, taking care of her own yard. 78 mom Happy birthday.
Happy birthday. Diana Brown. That's awesome.
Um, so this is a really interesting thing. I'm a little bit shocked about the whole way that we're kind of approaching this whole mask situation and all these other things right now. This is July 2020, we're in the middle of a pandemic, we're having a resurgence of everything. Everybody's flipping out again, we had the first flip out, and now we're having flip out number two, and everybody's wondering what the government's gonna do, but I don't blame them because we're six months into this pandemic. And there's so many things that have had misinformation from organizations that we traditionally would say, Oh, they said it, it's perfect. So like the CDC and the who the World Health Organization. Let's just go over a couple quick things. And if you look back at the earlier episodes of gut check project on COVID. We've been ahead of the science the whole time, and we've really just tried to talk science not conjecture, not scary, nothing like that. So this is initially, the who said, there's no evidence that this has human to human transmission. Wrong, learned that very quick, that was very wrong. And then the CDC came out and said masks don't matter. And wrong. Now they're mandatory. And we were told that hydroxychloroquine plaquenil was a panacea, it's gonna fix everything. It's gonna cure everybody. And then this article comes out and it says, no, it's harming people. And then everybody retracted articles from the Lancet and the New England Journal of Medicine and said, what are we doing publishing this, this crap? And really, an article came out last week that said, no a much more refined, well done study actually shows that it saves lives. And then when they looked back and looked at the original study, that it was probably poorly done, and they didn't equate for certain risk factors and stuff. So it's really hard to know what to actually do this is, this is unprecedented times, this is not something that we have ever dealt with before. So it's okay to be wrong. just own it and know that you're wrong.
It is. And I do want to point out something before we get too far if you're watching this and you feel as if something's going to be presented from a political slant, trust me that is the furthest thing from what Ken and I want to do on this topic whatsoever. Science should be agnostic to any political affiliation. And I think what you're going to hear from Ken and I as we move forward, is just utilize data. That's what science is about. And that's how we save lives. It has zero to do with a with a political party whatsoever.
Dude, this totally reminds me This is deja vu for me, though. I mean, you have to understand remember, I take polyphenols every single day. So I remember back in the 1940s and 50s when seatbelts were first proposed Getting in huge arguments with people. Oh, yeah, just like yeah, seat belts. It aroused heated debates, despite increasing scientific research. It was between, I think it was in 1947 I get in a huge argument with somebody that affirming that the this actually saves lives. And among the arguments put forth against the seat belts, there were all these other things. And they were all disputed by researchers. But the opposition to seat belts remained in place and it took all up to the 1980s to actually make it so that you all cars had to have three point seat belts. And I don't even know when the law went into place where basically you get a ticket if you don't so, I've been through this before I've been through arguments for science tries to win. And so I remember 1948, that was tough.
That's it's amazing how young you look for having been around just after the World War Two and old enough to have that kind of conversation. So my hat's off to you for being around in the 40s. And, and and really just kind of keeping it together and passing for a 40 year old yourself now, so that's kind of weird.
You know it. It's odd. It's a little bit odd.
Yeah, it's really, really strange. I mean, like, seriously, you were so far ahead of the curve on polyphenols alone that, well, I don't even want to go through it. But regardless, that's amazing that you were there for 40 for four decades, just to...the 80s.
But isn't it funny because we're going to talk about masks here for a second and the seatbelts went through the same not quite with the, with the, I guess, emotional power that's going on. But a lot of people fought seatbelts and said, that's my constitutional right. If I want to die, I can die. And it took forever, from 1940 to 1980 to actually make it that it was a mandated thing in cars.
My grandmother was one of those who was vehemently opposed to having to wear seatbelts so much so that she had talked about that she was going to sew something that looked like a seat belt on to her shirts just so that she wouldn't have to have one on, but.
Not to put you on the spot here because I know how much you loved your dad. But tell me that story about you driving with your dad in the car.
Oh, in the 70s Yeah, some of my earliest memories of riding with my dad. We lived in a small town and there was a lake nearby and I can still remember my dad and his buddy Jim. We it was commonplace, I guess for us to go out to the lake. Well, occasionally, dad, let me was probably about three or four years old sit in his lap, and, you know, work the steering wheel while he worked the pedals and he would hang his left hand up the, at the window, so he could ash his cigarette, you know, it was all the good stuff.
Was that was certainly that was certainly the time so. So now it's, it's 2020 I hop on Reddit, you know, the front page of the internet, whatever. And I see all these public freak outs and a lot of them are over this whole mask issue. So I just wanted to talk some science. I don't want to make it political. I just want to have some fun dialogue about viruses, and masks. And I found three studies that are pending publication meaning they've been accepted. They're not in print yet. They just came out like last week that I just want to talk into that I just want to talk about a little bit.
Let's do it. I mean, this is this is what it's about. Let's get into some data on why we would believe one thing or another.
Yeah. So all right, starting one article from China, which is really interesting, because when everything first came out,
Hey Ken your sound went off.
Oh, my goodness. It sure did that. Sorry about that.
Sorry about that. You said in China just start over you're good.
Yeah. So in China, so this article comes out of China. It's it's pending publication here. What I thought was really cool is that they went back and they looked at the very beginning. And they said, well, let's do a deep epidemiological dive, it's a hard word for me to say, of a cluster of people. And so they looked at a group of people in the Zhang province, which next to the Wu Han area, which I forgot what the province is called, has had a very, very high concentration of COVID. But they're going back to the beginning of covid. So this is like early January, that kind of thing. They tracked down a person that came from Wu Han, so he was probably exposed there. And then he ultimately very quickly infected seven other people, then what they did, it's really cool because this has not been done yet. They tracked out who ever they had contact with. Primary contact, secondary contact. So we've been speculating about a lot of different things. And what they're able to show is that these seven people had contact, direct or indirect, meaning close or not close with 539 people in a very short period of time. So that's shows how much we interact with people, even though we don't really realize it. What they what they were able to determine. And all these people, the seven people were asymptomatic. So they didn't had no idea that COVID covered was just breaking on the scene. It's all this other stuff. And what they showed is that all these people, if they had close contact to somebody, almost 30% or 29% of the people actually contracted COVID-contracted it: proven positive and had symptoms and all this other stuff. The secondary contact, meaning no direct contact, and what I'm talking about is people that did have never actually talked to the people that they talked to the person that talked to the person that may have done that, or maybe it was a waiter that delivered food, that kind of thing. It was .6%. So this is the first article to come out and actually delineate the exposure to risk of infection. So .6%. So what this does, is this strongly highlights a droplet theory because I remember, and I remember having like very early on Mike Logsin asked me He's like, Hey man, is this aerosolized or is this droplet and that's what we're gonna talk about today. Because it's terrifying. If you start talking about this being aerosolized, this kind of thing, and this is what all this is about. So what this highlighted was a droplet theory, meaning that if you're close to somebody, then you have a higher likelihood of getting infected. The US published a very similar article to this and this is why the CDC said it appears that it could be droplet transmission, as opposed to aerosolized. Now, a couple interesting other caveats that we won't get into because I think it should be its own show, is the median incubation period was seven days of these people to develop symptoms. And the people that actually had it, almost all of them initially had negative PCR tests, and then they continued to go back and then they'd started then they go back and they look and they go, Oh look, you had an elevated CRP and an elevated ferritin. And they kept checking them and then they got a PCR positive. And what I mean by this is, maybe when we're sitting there saying go get tested. So I recently had a patient that was PCR negative on one day PCR negative two days letter, because you're like, man, she's gotta have COVID this is crazy. And then PCR positive three days later, which is very odd in the sense that you develop a seven day incubation period, your viral loads peaking at that time, that's why you're having these issues. And two PCRs were negative. So hanging your hat on the fact that it's a PCR meaning that nasal swab where they poke your brain, it's it even happened in this study. So I don't know what your thoughts are, but definitely, the odds are way higher than what the R not meaning the number of people that could be infected. If it's a close familial unit, what they showed is when you're in close contact with somebody, you have a very high likelihood of contracting COVID if you take the necessary precautions. And they were they weren't even taking the necessary precautions at this, but the secondary to secondary transmission. So this brings up the whole idea that if we can squash it before other people are carrying it makes a huge difference because this is early on in COVID. I don't think you'd see those same numbers if they did it again.
No, I totally agree. And what you just described for the patient isn't, I mean in and of itself as what could be seen as anecdotal. However, there's a couple of different stories that have played out exactly like that. There's a there's another anesthesia provider that you and I both know. And she experienced the same thing after coming into exposure she had two PCR negatives only to have really bad symptoms set up. I think it was three days between the first two and then three days after she had the next test showed up positive because she had bad symptoms, and sure enough, she was COVID positive at that point. So that that's not really that big of an anomaly. I don't I don't think at all.
No, I don't think it is either. And, you know, we did a whole show on antibodies and we are still sitting on the, we're still waiting to determine what is the best antibody test. And we really at the data that we had, we were so confident. This is what it's this is what we were going to do. This is how it was going to be. And it was gonna be so exciting. And now that is pulling up. So all we can do is just kind of look at the data that's here. So this article shows that if somebody has it and they're in close contact, they can easily infect seven close family members, those seven family members have contact to 529 people or 39 people really quick because they went to a wedding which is why you and I didn't go to Nick's.
Precisely the reason we didn't go
Yeah. And so what they the now the the critique that I have of this article is that what they did is they they did a great job of tracking down 529 people or 39 can't remember what it was. 539 sorry, 539. And they just called him up and said, Did you have this? Did you have that? So and So, and they didn't. So those people that didn't have symptoms, they said they probably didn't get it. And we know that's not right anymore. We know that a lot of people are essentially asymptomatic, or they just blame it on allergies or whatever. So the point of this is close contact. Proximity makes a difference.
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure it does. And knowing that proximity matters, what do they call the, and maybe one of the studies that you're gonna reference today shows it but not the...graph, that's what shows the displacement of air whenever we breathe in, but there's, there's these UV light and infrared light scanners that show the airflow that comes out of your mouth when you're uninhibited, right? And then you can see distance etc. But having an object even if it happens to be really crappy cloth really does drive down the distance and area by which your droplets can travel.
Yeah, that's awesome. Next time you do that, say spoiler alert, please, because that's all we're going to talk about for the rest of the show.
Just so y'all know, he never tells me which studies he's gonna reference. I'm learning as we all go.
You know what I always like about this is this is why you always ask great questions because you're a healthcare provider, you're super smart. And you know, and that's exactly where we're gonna go. But we're not just going to say, Oh, do this, I'm gonna get into the science of it. So now let's talk about the second article. All right, so we already have an article from China that shows close contact makes a difference. We believe it's more droplet than aerosolized meaning in the air. And an article from Germany came out two days ago, actually, and they looked at the effectiveness of mask wearing after masks were made mandatory countrywide. So there is a general perception in Germany that public wearing og face masks reduces the incidences of COVID-19 significantly. Now this perception came mainly from one city. So one city named Jena spelled jena Jena immediately said we should all wear masks, which was really cool of Mayor there to say let's do this. So they introduced mass on April 6 2020. And the number of new infections fell to essentially zero. So based on that one city, the country of Germany said okay, we need to make it compulsory in all federal states, and it started on April 20, and worked its way through to April 29. That all the all of Germany has to wear masks. The conclusion is that the introduction of face masks reduced the number of new infections over the next 20 days by 25%. Impressive 20 days 25% drop. Then they compared this to a synthetic control group so they had a control group where they could actually look at this, it was, admittedly, it's a lot of science, epidemiologic manipulation and stuff like that, because you can never have a control group where you say you can't wear a mask. But what they did is they synthetically did it. It's pretty easy to do that because you can look at certain states in the US where the majority people don't wear masks and you could say, what is the rise? So, the conclusion of the authors was that they believe that the reduction in the growth rates of infection, were at least between 40 to 60% is the best estimate. And then they stressed that if you use the model like Jena, that 40 to 60% reduction in viral transmission is really lowball estimate. Because if you would have started it earlier, you would have decreased the number of people that had the virus, the R not meaning the number of those people that they could have infected would have gone down significantly. So we have a country like Germany that looked at one city and said It's down to zero. We got to do what they're doing. And they immediately jumped on it. And that's pretty impressive. So I think it's if we're arguing whether or not masks work, it's pretty easy to look at other countries like Japan and Germany that were very aggressive about this. Now, Japan has always had a pretty liberal roll of masks. It's it's part of the culture. So it's not a big deal. Germany didn't. Germany, it's not like people were walking around wearing masks. But they all collectively agreed to do this. And it is just if you looked at their worldometers, their cases are just plummeting. So I just want to say those two articles. So one from China talks about close contact two from Germany, where a country that isn't used to doing that clearly is showing a significant drop in this. And so the third article is all about how and why that's it.
No, that makes sense. And then when you reference the fact that you have Germany being a country that didn't typically wear them. I think historically, when you look at the way they apply engineering, the way they utilize the base stem, they probably embrace the idea that science is at least supporting a reduction in transmission only to see it play out, as you said, I think you said 20 days a reduction of 25%. That's awesome. Probably not accounting for non compliance and some probably pockets of people that didn't really embrace it as a whole. So that would probably be that would equate at least to a trigger on why there was still some transmission afterwards.
Yeah, it's just it's super impressive. We'll get into why a lot of this is going on. But so now I found this super cool article. It's pending publication. And it's the article is actually titled COVID-19 and aerosol's point of view from expiration to transmission.
Whoo nice. I like the crowd noise there too.
For everyone listening the studio audience is all wearing masks so they're actually just a little bit so this is really cool because this is you know, we have these people that are flipping out but let's let's talk about the physics of stuff. Let's talk about what's actually going on how, what masks do what viruses do. So this whole article is about that and it's I just found it super interesting that it's, it gets in all this stuff. I don't know what are your What are your thoughts?
No, I that's this is the explanation This is why I think that we can remove the the politics behind the use of a mask and the oddity of of using a mask and then start getting down to the explaining of why a mask and it hopefully this makes sense to those who may be on the fence. It'll be less of a I don't know your your heels in the dirt right. You'll be more open to like, whenever you're going into a communal area, just throw on a mask, at least you're not going to be contributing to the problem. Totally.
Hey, Karen, can you not? Can you not? All right? Let's just be quiet for the show for now. Okay. That's the last time I do a live audience. Alright, so anyways, let's talk about a few things for you to become infected. For a respiratory infection to happen there needs to be a sufficient amount of virus, you need to have a viral load. Now, here's something that's interesting when you read the literature, when they discuss when a virus is outside of a body, it is referred to as a verion. So the verion is being car is being carried in an aerosolized vessel which is a droplet. So we know that h2 receptors you and I did the original podcast on how co on how SARS cov2 infects us and becomes COVID-19 on the h2 receptors, those h2 receptors are located in the lungs and in the GI tract. They're heavily populated in the posterior pharynx. And bronchus, which you know, much better than I do, because you did the whole episode on the lungs. But that's the conductive zone and then the respiratory zone, the alveoli is the gas exchange area. So that's further down in am I saying that right?
Yeah, pretty much. But does those h2 receptors of course they affect if y'all remember correctly, pneumocytes, there are two types of pneumocytes in your lungs. And one of them in particular has more ACE2 receptors, and it happens to be the ones that help us breathe. And so when these things get disrupted, we don't breathe through those pneumocytes anymore.
That's right, go back to that COVID episode because Eric goes into crazy detail about surfactant and all these other things and why we get so sick and that was back early on when we were trying to piece it together and you know fortunately I think we found the right literature that makes sense. Because it's true.
Yeah definitely I believe that.
So what you're describing is when you get down into the alveoli, and what I'm talking about is the conductive system, which is your trachea and the main bronchus. What we're talking about is, what size of aerosol meaning if something is in the air is important on making this virus infective or how do we control it? So who the World Health Organization says that the virus is primarily spread through droplets from sneezing and coughing, when these droplets reach a person's nose, mouth or eyes, pow. Now you have an infection. And then the indirect way is when these droplets land, then they land on something called a fomite. Fomite is a fancy term for anything that a virus lands on. So this pen could be a fomite if I sneezed it. And if you touch it and then touch your eyes, you could potentially have an infection. So, right now, don't touch my fomites. All right?
Hands off your fomites for sure.
Hands off my fomites. I think one of the reasons why people are fighting the mask thing is the confusion on what the CDC said early on on this COVID-19 pandemic. And basically, they almost implied if you don't have an N 95, that fancy mask, then are you going to be safe, and we didn't know all that stuff. And so now we know quite a bit more about this. And the CDC essentially was saying that to protect healthcare workers, I don't think they really understood it. But in this is unprecedented times in a pandemic, they have to sit there and land on a stance, and it's okay to have a hard stance to try and make sure that we have enough protective equipment for everyone out there. And then it's okay to retract. So at one point, they're sitting there saying, the masks don't help. And then they're saying now they're mandatory. And I think that's why we're having this emotional response. So
Well, I think an invasion into anyone's normal everyday activity with a poor explanation, which, if we're going to be honest, in the early days of all of this, things, things happened quickly, but it didn't. I would say, for many people, it didn't appear as if the right information was always readily available. Everything seemed very ambiguous and with ambiguity, you, you allow people to breed some elements of content, and they just weren't, weren't excited about what they were hearing. And then when you go back and forth, I think that people, they they say, Well, once you told me this, and now you're telling me this, without a full understanding that sometimes the things change, and they were they require just just different things from people to do different activities. So it there's there's definitely some vitriol from people who don't want to give up more of their liberties, I think is probably a big piece of the issue
100% we're going to get into that about all this. This is not trying to shove it down. You're not trying to placate one side to the other. This is the science of what's going on. And what we do know is you're like, Well, why do you care if you touch my fomite well, you would be shocked at how many people touch their eyes after they touch something you're always scratch your eyes. That is a that is also a point of entry, which this article did not get into. But that's how come we say we're
I'm guilty of doing it on this podcasts already. I mean, I know I've done it.
It's it's super hard not to so it's alright, so one of the things is that airborne transmission when it first came out, it is somewhat terrifying to think that this thing could be just floating around in the air. But when Mike asked me, is this aerosolized or is this droplet what I'm going to say is airborne transmission is through the air. So they're both airborne transmission and that that is another part of the confusion that the that the news media was saying this is not transmitted airborne, but it's transmitted through droplets. I'm saying that a droplet is that. So droplets and aerosolized are airborne transmission, it just comes down to size, which is the definition of it. So a respiratory droplet is saliva and secretions expelled from the upper airway, posterior pharynx. nose. And this happens with sneezing, coughing, talking, even breathing, you're going to be expelling some of this. Generally, they are considered to be between five to 10 microns in size. And this is just relevant for the masks when we start talking about that. But due to the size, they are brought down by gravity after shooting out, so when I cough or sneeze, they get shot out. And you could say, Oh, well, how do you know that? Well, the reality is in 1934, a doctor named Dr. Wells came up with this really cool wells, evaporation, falling curve, which I always find interesting as a scientist. So you could I always think it's funny when these guys do these things. The I joke around like somebody named the fever that you get with malaria is called a double quotidian fever of not Nagle. I always have this funny vision in my head that somebody walks into doctor not nagels lab because you're never amount to nothing, you're worthless. He goes screw you. I'm gonna name this double quotidian fever of not Nagel, and this is kind of what I feel about this. So like, I'm gonna prove to that when I sneeze. My droplet has a predictable mathematical equation on when it evaporates and when it lands. In other words, when does it become a fomite? And when does it become aerosolized, and there's actually a math equation on this. So once the wells curve has evaporated, the droplet is now a is now a verion, and then that verion is aerosolized and it can hang out in the air for an hour. We can kind of explain that. So there's reasons why this is relative. So if it's less than five microns, then it can hang out in the air for up to an hour, up to an hour. So all right, so my question to you, Eric, is, we're hanging around, and then I want to know how far back you should stand when I do this.
It sounded like a sneeze. And then how far back should I stand? When you sneeze, I would say probably just knowing how hard people sneeze, probably, at least 10 feet back would be the beginning of the edge, it seems to me I mean, there's lots of turbulent flow that happens once it exits the body. And that's by design believe it or now but at the same time the virus is is smarter, quote unquote smarter than what we give it credit for. They know why they want in mammals because they want to be transmitted. They want people to sneeze. That's how it gets passed around.
Yeah so that's, that's better. I thought you're gonna say I thought you're going to use the old CDC rhetoric of six feet away now, but if I sneeze, my particles can be in the air droplets. Large droplets can be in the air for around 19 feet a little over 19 feet.
Wow so tens not even get enough wow okay.
Yeah. So that's that was little shocking to me to find out that because we talked about six feet, and then a droplet nuclei. And what I mean by droplet nuclei means that in the wells evaporation curve, you've got these big droplets that land on a fomite, right? And then you touch your eye and then you get infected, or in a dry area evaporates and becomes less than five microns. And then it floats and it can actually travel almost two miles. Yeah, so two miles. And that is a little bit scary in the sense that we think about that. So now, why? Why isn't it worse? Because, I mean, you're talking about the fact that I can actually sneeze if I'm outside or cough and I have COVID-19. And it's dry, my verion will be carried in the air and travel up to two miles. And they've actually documented this it isn't it isn't. It isn't specifically related to COVID. It's related to all viral protocols and things like that. And so what you were referring to earlier are those either heat or laser or different ways to show the transmission of different things but when you get out when other studies have been done, and these are studies from 2004 studies from 17. That's pretty wild. Oh shit, we're screwed if I can infect somebody two miles away. So now what we have to talk about is that's the physics of the virus. Now let's talk about how do we get infected? Are you up to speed on yours?
Yeah, hundred percent. I would say that small caveat would be, even though we know that the virus probably can travel up to two up to two miles in a really dry environment, etc. back to what you said earlier in the podcast, it's in all likelihood, it still requires several strains of RNA to all basically kind of be there wants to overcome mucus, saliva, different things that actually our body's always producing to prevent invasions or infections like that.
So hundred percent. And so now let's talk about how we actually get infected. So there's several. So this is not all. Now this particular article is directly in relation to COVID-19. But the references we have the data from other viruses and things like that. So several factors do play into the infectivity. So the virus characteristics we know that SARS cov2 is unlike anything else we've ever faced the fact that the infectivity due to the Furin protein, the binding furin protein that won't get into it but Weinstein talks about about how it's inserted there. And then the ACE2 receptor, which is a ubiquitous receptor, would explain how easy it is to get infected. You get infected through your GI tract, through your eyes, through your nose, breathe it in, get it in the back of your throat, all you got to do if you if you're 18 feet away, I don't know you and you sneeze and I go. I could be infected.
You could be that easy. Absolutely
It's crazy. Alright, so we know that the infectivity of this virus is exceptional in the way that it is exceptionally good at infecting other people. Now the other thing is the host the sneezer. So what if you have the virus and let's depend on your viral load. So this is why I brought up the original article about the epidemiologic study out of China. If your viral load is really high, and you're a powerful sneezer, you're going to send a lot of virus out in droplets, where it's going. And so the hosts themselves could potentially have a high viral load. And we know that it took up to seven days or the mean of seven days before they started showing symptoms, which means six days and a half. They're sneezing, coughing, thinking, it's just allergies, it's nothing. And there, that's where the R not are the other people that could be infected. So that's the other thing. So there's the virus characteristic. There's the host, the sneeze, are we going to say something? Sorry? No, no, I completely agree with that. And then the really thing that nobody's talking about is the transmission, the big drop or little drop, and that's kind of what you were getting at right there. Before we get into this
Yeah. Now when you have a big drop are we gonna want to talk about the number of RNA viral strands all in one drop, that's kind of the concentration of the vehicle.
We're gonna get into that. And then something else that nobody's really talking about is that the victim, I'm going to call them the victim. So you're the host of the virus, your sneeze. several aspects come in play also. The victim's breathing patterns play a role that nobody's talking about yet. And I just I just got the book by Nestor. His last name's Nestor heard him on Ben Greenfield podcast about breathing like, we're apparently breathing wrong, but anyways, breathe through your nose helps. If I'm breathing deep and fast, I'm creating an environment where I'm bringing in further air there. So the victim's breathing capacity, meaning if you're breathing big, you're getting in more air you have the you have the possibility and then of course the victim's immune system. And we always say healthy gut equals a healthy immune system if you are under stress, you're not sleeping well, you're, you're a target. So imagine being a stressed person. And somebody with the virus is 19 feet away, they sneeze, you hear the sneeze, you're already freaked out and you start mouth breathing, bringing in posterior pharynx, the conducting system of the lungs, the trachea, tons of ACE2 receptors. All you need is a couple the viral load coming in, gets there. So my recommendation if you're out in public, you're not wearing a mask. That person is not wearing a mask. You see somebody sneeze, shallow, control breaths through your nose is at least a physiologic way to not back yourself into the corner. So...
No without question, you know, and maybe someday just go over the we could we could even talk about the physiology of breathing and we have these little bitty structures in our nose called turbinates and they are specifically designed to make it Air swirl so that the mucus which is already in place that doesn't just protect us from COVID. It protects us from all kinds of stuff. It's really there to trap things like a virus, and.
You've got IGA sitting there. You've got IGG sitting there IGM sitting there, those are your antibodies. So when you take in a big breath, we should all be nose breathers, not mouth breathers. But anyways, that's a whole separate. That's a whole separate discussion. So these are several factors that play into it, the host and the infected person play into it. Now getting back to what you're talking about, which is really where masks come into play. big drop, drop top, cooking up drugs in the crock pot. Is that right?
Hip hop show.
It's really hard to try and throw a little levity into a discussion that's...
Into disease and pandemics. Yes.
All right, so big drop. When you have a big drop the big droplets, when they come out, you're exactly right. They're a drop and they hold more virions, meaning they hold more virus more virus to infect you. Big drops deposit in the upper airway, and the pharynx, where there's lots of ace2 receptors, droplet nuclei, which is the scientific term for little tiny virions. So what happens is, I sneeze, cough, talk, droplets come out, and in the wells evaporation curve, big drops carry these viruses down and imagine them splashing, microscopic splashing down and then that fomite could be there. worse. I sneeze and my big droplets go 19 feet and you inhale a big droplet. That's super dangerous, the evaporation curve when the big droplet starts to go down. As it evaporates with speed, now you have a tiny little droplet called a droplet nuclei. This has much smaller amounts of virions, the so if you inhale one of these droplet nuclei, the ability of those virions to infect you is much less than a big droplet that just you're taking a bolus of something. So, keep that in mind because you're exactly right, smaller amounts of virions, you have to expose yourself to higher levels of these droplet nuclei to infect. Now, the downside is that they're so small that you can inhale them into those type two pneumocytes which is a whole separate deal. Yeah, and once again, I keep saying the same thing. We're going to get to this because it all just kind of ties up together. So the who states that droplet transmission is the primary way of infection. But if there's enough concentration of these droplet nuclei, then your infection rate goes up. Hence the health care workers that are our frontline people that are sacrificing their lives. So a nurse that's taking care of an ICU patient or not an ICU patients not ventilated, not in a closed loop that is just continually breathing out these droplet nuclei. Well, it's hard to get infected by them, but if you put enough of them in a concentrated area, you can be infected. So the who is not completely right on that, but it's the best that they can do for the general public. And it has been shown that exhalations, sneezing and coughing have droplets, but also this is interesting what you're talking about why viruses want to infect mammals. One of the reasons why is because they come out with a cloud of mist. In other words, the humidity surrounding it. you sneeze out your own little clouds. And that is an evolutionary thing that keeps the humidity up. So that the viruses do not disperse immediately. So big, the virus wants to be in a big droplet. And as we do this, our bodies end up doing this through evolutionary reasons. So it keeps this cloud of mist that keeps the humidity up. And it's looking to delay that evaporation curve. Because it's survival is best if it either goes in somebody right away, or if it lands somewhere. And we know that SARS CoV2 the causes COVID-19 can live on like plastic for what what do we say 96 hours or something like that?
Yeah, something like that. A couple of days anyway.
Yeah. All right. So now, what's finally unmasked how masks play a role into this by wearing a mask and this is this is the easy part of the podcast. So it shouldn't be too difficult, but I think it's really important to understand the physiology because when you understand it, maybe public freak outs will slow down a little bit. So by wearing a mask, we introduce a resistance barrier to the droplets. And this is exactly what you said in the first five minutes of the show. You're exactly right. It doesn't have to be an N95 you produce resistance to the droplets, the mask will reduce the expired air velocity. So as I'm talking to you, if you're sitting across the table from me, and I'm shouting, or I'm singing, or I'm doing things that create a lot of air, that is the viral that is the velocity of the air, which can shoot a viral load further out. So just by creating a little bit of resistance, and I have worked out with a mask, and it is a little it's a little you know, I mean, I like it personally because I feel like once we get out of this, we're all gonna be like, you know, phenoms aerobically, because if you go out for a jog with a, with a mask on, it's a, you're like woo, it's it's a, it's a little bit harder. So the mask will reduce the expired air, thus slowing the, the droplet down, and it will essentially fall quicker. So it's like, think of that your pitcher throwing a really fast 90 mile per hour, you know, fast pitch and me throwing with my left hand, you know, just barely making it halfway to you know, home plate, the virus is gonna drop. And as long as we're using proper contacts, fomites stuff, and there's some new evidence to show that maybe the whole fomites transmission and we can talk about that later. is probably less important than we initially thought. So putting it there, if you have it, you're not gonna put it out there. You're not gonna be able to eject a virus so far and it will shrink the radius of Where the virus goes. So we know that on those different laser type shots where they show where a sneeze goes, it's like a cloud. And it just goes and kind of covers this big radius. Well, when you do that you actually control the radius. So it comes like here and here. So that's at least does that now the droplet nuclei, the tiny little micron things are now moving slower, which means they evaporate quicker, so they can't join the droplet. Yeah, although it seems dangerous that you're like, Yeah, but you said earlier that the nuclei can travel two miles. But what I'm saying is that those nuclei, they have to gather in sufficient amounts, otherwise, your own immune system can kick their ass, and that's what you really want. You want to be able to fight something as opposed to being overwhelmed by something. Now, the mask wearer also has something which is really interesting and this gets back to the exercise your your reduced inhalation velocity. So you're 19 feet away. you sneeze. I'm wearing a mask I breathe in. Well, I'm only breathing in air that I can that's just nearby my mask. It protects me also. So it's all physics, about how when you're wearing a mask, you're decreasing the velocity and you're decreasing the velocity out. Which is why a lot of people are flipping out with a like I'm having trouble breathing. I'm like, that's okay. Any type of mask is there trouble breathing if you breathe through your nose and you do it controlled, you get enough oxygen in it is I understand there's a million reasons why people feel claustrophobic and all this other stuff but you know, the six feet away thing that makes sense. If everybody's wearing a mask that makes sense because your my ability to inhale your virus is decreased your ability to expel your virus is decreased. Now, the who World Health Organization got everyone all scared and felt If you don't have an N 95, then you're completely screwed. This is not true. And that's part of the problem is that and I've, I'm part of it, I go to the hospital, I wear a surgical mask. And people say that's doing nothing for you. And I actually had this conversation with a couple doctors. And they're like, I'm not wearing a mask because I don't have an N 95 not true. from day to day standpoint. Any barrier helps, I don't care, any barrier help you pull your shirt up, wear whatever, but the more layers, the better. So they did do this show on ABC, where they show different ways through a laser of how far a sneeze goes. And definitely the N 95 is the best and then followed that would be like a multi layer with some sort of filter in the middle or some sort of quilt. So that's awesome. So let's get back to the frontline workers really quick. They still need those in 95 because if someone is shedding droplet nuclei in a room, the overall amount of virions goes way up and the longer that healthcare worker is sitting in the room Have a statistically higher chance of becoming infected through these aerosolized or droplet nuclei. So that is, if you're an extreme environment where you're treating COVID people 12 hour shifts. Yes. But if you're going to the supermarket, it's so easy to block this Germany showed us.
Yeah, without question. I mean, what you're talking about is I love the way you use the word extreme, because what we're talking about here is environmental air turnover time. If I'm, if I'm in an enclosed environment in a closed room with somebody else who is sick or infected, and they're sneezing. There's obviously a high concentration probably, of trends of virions, right? All in the air suspended, falling on objects, etc. It's kind of all around me. But if I'm in a grocery store, where doors are constantly opening up over and over again in a gigantic, you know, 30 foot ceiling, air turnover time is actually rather rapid everywhere that you stand, and there happens to be airflow or you're outside. So really open air space, not closed in environments, avoiding people who are sick. Having a barrier. All of these things play a role. It's it's really just physics. It's not
It's physics. This is not politics. This is not a constitutional or any of that. It's physics. The physics and ineffective process just makes sense to wear something around other people. Not only to protect others, but it's also to protect yourself. So I've heard from people, I've had several patients where I've talked to them, I'm just like, hey, out of curiosity, are your friends wearing masks they're like no. And the answer usually is because they've not been directly affected, which is something that we've heard and what what I think we're seeing is burnout of the information. And so what it's what's happening is intelligent. Fact somebody that you know, then it becomes important again What I'm saying is, it's not a big deal wear something cover up anything, and you can make a difference. So this is this isn't I don't really understand how it's become. Well, I think nothing of putting on my seatbelt now. And at one point that was a huge political and constitutional thing. Do you wear a seatbelt?
Absolutely, definitely do because if I were to be in an accident, I want to survive it. I've got a family that I still want to see. I mean, I I assume if you don't want to or if you're okay with being mamed then don't that don't buckle up. But that's not where I'm at. I like buckling up.
Yeah. And so it's it's just it's just that I don't know. I really, I hate seeing other countries do so well and controlling it and I hate being in this position right now where we're we can't go to weddings because we're being exposed where my hospitals 99 percent full. Houston looks like most of the ICU beds are filling up scary just because it hasn't happened to you or a friend doesn't mean that it's not actively going on. So I don't know just physics don't make it about you know, let's get some assets just physics.
You just real quick I know we don't want to keep the show going going too long specifically on this but what are your thoughts on on people who probably more or less just don't want to wear a mask but they they've heard other rhetoric I guess you could say over I have asthma or I have some type of breathing condition and I probably can't, can't stand wearing a mask just for me personally, we you and I have several colleagues and co workers that have asthma. And just like us they wear a mask all of the time when at work and have for years long before Coronavirus or COVID issues whatsoever. So I don't know, I hear the excuses. And it's unfortunate because I feel like that it's that's it's it's a it's a pathway that's not really genuine. And it drives more angst than it does solutions.
You know, I don't know if I totally agree with you, because I think if somebody has that feeling that is genuine to them. And I think if they educate, then they can do this, then they might be able to tolerate the mask a little bit better. So if somebody were to have, let's say, I'm going to go through different scenarios. I have, I have claustrophobia.
And I didn't, I didn't say claustrophobia. I was just talking asthma.
Yeah, I'm just I'm just thinking of arguments by having a background as to why and the protectiveness and the fact droplet versus droplet nuclei and an understanding that educating yourself to understand I'm going to put this on, I'm not very comfortable. You and I have to wear N 95s at work and we both frickin hate them. They hurt.
They give you a bloody nose. I mean, they do lots of really cool stuff.
All kinds of stuff. So I'm just thinking of I'm just trying to think of different things. So somebody may be claustrophobic somebody may be I'm trying to think of anything physical, the asthmatic, the the person, just something away from the political stance, because I don't think that I think anybody that's doing this from a political perspective, or a constitutional perspective probably has some cognitive dissonance. And I don't really want to address that what I want to address is the person that has, let's just address the asthmatic person, so the asthmatic person is already at risk that if they get exposed, then they have a higher likelihood of having a bad outcome. Right. If you have asthma and you're listening to this, what I suggest is you continue to pursue the type, any barrier, any barrier that you can tolerate, just find some sort of barrier. It doesn't have to be the thing. That face shield where face shield that helps a ton. That stops those droplets realize that those droplets are coming out. We should I mean, I'm, I'm a I'm a very salivary person. Can't even imagine what's on this microphone right now. So I, you know, I mean I'm animated when I talk and stuff and I know that I'm probably causing lots of saliva and things to come out a face shield. That's a great example just a simple face shield, if you're asthmatic. Do me a favor and just wear a face shield, because that's not for, yes, you're helping other people. But that's also for you. Because if you were to get it, then you have a higher likelihood of having a bad outcome. The claustrophobic person should probably do well with the face shield as well. And I don't know I'm.
I guess I guess my point was there, there are alternatives versus trying to find a subversive way to get around what some are seeing as a rule rather than a measure of public safety and really for your own safety, if you're already subjected to respiratory issues similar to asthma or even asthma, then you're right. You're actually already at higher risk if anyone should be taking some cautionary measures it's you and let's let's talk about ways that that if a mask is going to work for you, that's fine then then 20 feet is something that you may want to examine and a face shield or some kind of alternative. But the takeaway is, just because you have a reason where there may not be a suitable fit for a mask does not eliminate the need that you need to watch out for your own health.
Just want to reiterate, we had one study from China that just got published last week showing that close contacts have a very high likelihood of if you're talking to somebody, we have a study from Germany, which shows that the effective decrease in viral transmission countrywide. It absolutely was completely proven. And now we're looking at the physics of this. It just makes sense. So just look at the science. Look at the physics of it. I don't want your big ass droplet landing in my upper airway.
That's right. Well, you know what else, we have something special and an email will go out. We've got a patient. And I should have brought the mask and we will show them next time, but we have a patient who actually showed up and made masks for you and I so for Miss Unger, we will. We'll add a little place where if you would like a designer mask, she'll make you one that'll look cool.
Gave you a Texas Tech mask and I got myself a Nebraska Cornhuskers mask.
Definitely and they're really really cool and might I add far more comfortable than the ones that we get when we're working at the endo centers. So But anyhow, yeah, so there's there's all kinds of alternatives, I guess is is the takeaway and we'll definitely share that with everyone so that they can get outfitted if they'd like.
Yeah. And so if you're listening to this, you know, we try and make a little bit of science fun we try and talk about some different things go to KBMDhealth.com, we've got some downloadable we've got a great downloadable ebook because I personally believe that you need a healthy endocannabinoid system to have a healthy immune system you need a healthy gut to have a healthy immune system all the above we're offering you know these free downloads so just go and take a look at it to try and augment your life.
Yeah, so as we as we put together all these podcasts Ken is exactly right. Be sure and send people to gutcheckproject.com or to KBMDhealth.com it's technically right now go to the same spot anyhow to our homepage, but start showing people that they can begin to build their knowledge base. So many of you who write to us every single week, we certainly appreciate it. And that's really why we're producing this particular one. both in person and online. We've been asked, okay, y'all are in healthcare is a mask really going to help? And that's exactly why Dr. Brown put together the research, etc. on why we're talking to everyone today specifically about this, because it's a burning question, as cases kind of took a dip and are hitting back up, we got tons of email questions, phone calls, like I said, in person, is this really something that I need to be doing? So we want to build upon that go ahead.
Yeah, I just gonna say I think if you get one thing out of this podcast out of today's episode, the one thing that I really learned, if you ever want to own a $40,000 Rolex shop at Target not at Neiman Marcus if you don't know what I'm talking about just look at the news.
And major apologies to all of our Karen fans out there. For Sir, we know that you all did not pick for that name to be the brunt of bad behavior in public. But unfortunately, that's just the way it's going at the moment.
Alright, so I convinced myself that I will always have some sort of barrier on when I'm in public.
Oh without question. Without question.
I hope you feel the same way. And I it just makes sense. If somebody says, Why are you wearing a mask? I'm gonna be like, Oh, it's all about droplets. It's all about virions. It's all about the distance that I can hit you with my droplet and so on and so on. It just there's science makes sense physics.
Definitely science. Definitely. Well, what an awesome episode and keep the emails coming. We as we as we keep trying to shape up the the next the next topic. A lot of this stuff is driven by we've got an influx of questions just like we did over the last two weeks, let's hear from you. This is what we're here for. So thanks to all of you who wrote in and wanted to hear a little bit more about masks and none of the thing we got to controversial, but at the same time maybe for some, it's it's a, it's not exactly what they thought that we would say, but that's okay. Because it's not like we we contrived the message. This is what the data says.
Yeah, and I'm not gonna raise a big ruckus if I go to Costco or something and somebody isn't wearing a mask rather than be six feet away. I'm gonna mean 19 feet away.
That's exactly right. that'll probably do it then for installment number eight, of the COVID files for gut check project. Thanks for bringing all the info. That was awesome.
All right, Eric. Thank you so much. And as always, you didn't even have to read the articles. You knew the answers before I even started so strong work.
I don't know if that's an as always, but yeah, we'll see.
Everyone, everyone like liking share, please. We're really trying to get some of these messages out there. If you have any questions, please send it to us. We will try and contact if we don't know it. If we can't find the literature on it, we will at least find an expert on it. And like, share, subscribe, whatever it is all the other things people do, go to our website, download that ebook, because it is very informative. So.
Stay safe everyone. See y'all next time.
Welcome, everybody, KBMD health family and gut check project fans. We are back now with episode number 37. And we have an incredible guest. This is Gabrielle Grandell. She's gonna be joining us here in two minutes. But of course, this is the gut check project with your host, Dr. Ken Brown. Can you want to introduce Gabrielle for us?
Yeah, absolutely. I'm so excited about this. We were introduced through a mutual friend Gabrielle Grandell. She is currently practicing at living well Dallas, a certified health coach certified in functional med as well. And she calls herself an integrative dietitian. Why am I so excited about this because I would love to be sending her people like all day long. This is so cool. And my goal is that she has enough fun that she's a recurring guest slash co co host, because I think she's gonna really elevate all of our games and fill in a lot of gaps that that I need some education on because even though I got a degree in gastroenterology, we do about this much nutrition and I'm learning about it a ton. So thank you so much for joining Gabrielle.
Hi, everybody. Glad to be here. Thank you guys for having me on. Looking forward to chatting today.
Definitely. So Gabrielle, you are at living well Dallas, correct?
That is correct.
So tell us a little bit about what it is you do at living well Dallas because I have a feeling that with your experience, something that Ken and I've talked about is how we see there is a stark difference between our allopathic ideas behind nutrition and the approaches to nutrition. But really, there's this whole other world that's really started to gain steam, even though it's been around for a few decades. And that's the functional medicine approach to nutrition and how to help out with patients who have some some pretty hairy questions. So kind of tell us a little bit about living well Dallas and what you do there.
Yeah, thank you. So living well Dallas is the first Functional Medicine Center in Dallas. Oops, I hit some thing here on my screen.
It's okay. We all, sometimes we always do things.
So it's the first Functional Medicine Center in Dallas. And so functional medicine, right is is about thinking about the medicine sort of why. Why are things happening? Why? Why are these symptoms talking to us? And not just what is going on? But why is it happening and what can we do about it? And so functional medicine is, that's, you know, there's lots of different providers in the center that offer help and treating the whole person because it might be different, different things that they're dealing with, that they need support in. But where I come in is helping people with showing them how nutrition and what they're eating, their lifestyle, their environment, how all of that is helping or hurting them. And so most of the time, what's going on with these folks, whether it be digestive concerns, or headaches or hormonal issues or blood sugar dysregulation, we see all different kinds of people. But the different symptoms that they're experiencing, are usually as a result of what they're putting in their body and what they're putting around them, right, which is nutrition and lifestyle and you know environment. So I help people we have when they when people come in, they fill out a good deal of paperwork, which gives us a really good understanding of their history, kind of their goals, their readiness, we have a readiness assessment, which is really nice to try to gauge where people are coming from in terms of if they're ready to change their diet or their exercise or their sleep patterns or whatnot. We have them fill those things out. That gives me a good understanding of how they came to us and what they're ready to do what their diet history is like. Again, their environment, relationships, things like that purpose. And so we have them fill those things out. And then I'm going to go through that with them in their first visit. And we're going to talk about all the different ways that their body is speaking to them. What has worked before, what hasn't. One of the main differences, I think, between allopathic and functional for what I do is the amount of time that I'm spending with people. So before I was at the center, one of my other positions was at the hospital doing Clinical Nutrition and seeing, you know, 25 to 30 people in a short period of time, all over the hospital,
Which so you were in a major hospital
BUMC at Baylor University Medical Center. Yeah, in Dallas, which
So, I love this. So you went and the reason why is Eric's heard me complain about this. And I've talked to my patients about this. Whenever I do hospital work, I am just absolutely shocked at how many bad things we do to patients. Like, let's not let them sleep, let's check their blood glucose at 2am. And no results. Let's do vitals just so that we can check a box. And then somebody that's in the cardiac rehab unit, they're eating their cardiac diet, which consists of pancakes, syrup, you know.
But, it's low fat!
Oh, it's just as long as it's low fat. Yeah, exactly. So that's awesome. I did not know that you did that. This is this is fantastic. Okay, keep going. I didn't mean to interrupt, but that is that that shift of being a nutritionist in a hospital system to doing what you're doing is you cannot get more polar opposite.
And Gabrielle before you have to go too deep on on why I completely feel like the association for what Ken's looking for for his patients. And then what it is that you provide the audience may or may not realize that allopathic medicine itself is just traditional medicine as we view it today. And even though the word itself means scientifically based, I think that what has really appealed to Ken and me and others, like, like all three of us is that functional medicine has not forgotten the ideas behind applying new science to improve upon old methods. And the intake that you're talking about, traditionally, 15 years ago, there wasn't always a nutritionist who was experienced that took the time to one on one walk a patient through what's affecting them generally. I'm sorry, specifically, they were more general in approach.
Very yeah, nothing was was individualized. And you know, I think that I don't think there should be really a monopoly on who can provide health information and who can help people right...their their husband but hopefully that changes as time goes on. So yeah, so doing the doing the intake paperwork and taking the time is very different than at the hospital where we'd see 25 or 30 people and we'd, you know, it's almost, you know, no disrespect, because I know that there's a lot of dietitians and there's a lot of people in the hospital that are making a difference and, you know, really helping out but it's almost like glorified lunch ladies, like we don't we're talking about calorie counting, we're talking about, you know, tube feed all this stuff is important, but what about the quality? You know, there, there's not enough emphasis on quality of food and again, an individualized approach. And so, so I think that's number one. One of the main differences is just the amount of time so it's like 90 minutes for a first visit. And then after that, which sounds like a lot, but really once you get the people talking and you know you are understanding what's going on And then you start talking about their, their goals and things. Time goes by really quick. I often, you know, struggle with keeping it to that time.
You have...sorry, Eric really quick, just one of the best quotes I've heard in a long time. What I do is I find out what the symptoms are talking to my patients about you said the symptoms talk to us. Way different from my perspective, where you have a symptom, I treat it, it's saying something and we're ignoring what they're saying many times.
Exactly. Yeah. And you know, if our hormones I'll just use as an example are talking to us as ladies around our cycle. It's not is the answer to take birth control pills, you know, and suppress that, or try to figure out what else maybe we can do to get things in balance in our in our lives, you know, and there's a lot of examples like that, I think,
Well, I was going to say that there's also in addition to the client base focus, I would say that even in addition approach that a functional medicine or a functionally trained nutritionist is already approaching certain patient subsets differently than they did traditionally. Ken, the one I'm thinking about specifically how you talked about all of the most recent data that we know about what can make a heart disease patient, or someone more susceptible, and how the type of diet has changed over time how we care for them. Yet when we go into a hospital setting, or specifically what you saw, most recently, you you can't believe what there's sending somebody who's status post CABG, and it's all of the things that we wouldn't be feeding them anyway. It's it's in essence, a an inflammatory diet, and I was kind of curious Gabrielle do you find your training generally prepares you to handle either a neurology patient or a cardiology patient, different than the allopathic training?
I think, right, I think over time what I've been learning, you know, because I've been blessed to really work alongside some pretty intelligent mentors. And you know, I've been blessed to go to conferences and learn from a lot of a lot of people. I think that what I was taught I've had to expand it quite a bit, you know, and sort of unlearn some of the things that I was was taught right. I mean, biochemistry is the same and things but but we I never realized how much influence big Ag and big food and pharma has on the dietetics industry,
You know you're right there because the reality is that as as an allopathic physician, it seems like when I talk to my colleagues, unless in my field unless a drug rep shows up and hands them a detailed piece, there is no literature on that. But then when you go look at it, and you realize there's so much literature on this and then when we look back, my son and I were talking about About how we have our diets have changed, like over time as we evolved, and we have developed these different problems based on different food changes based on different things. And then you could see it track over hundreds of years of what's going on. I was just listening to a podcast on on breathwork and breathing and that kind of thing and about how so many of us have, you know, poor ability to breathe, and it's because of our anatomy is changed because of the food that we did. It just gets really complex. But the one thing that we have control over is what we put in our mouths. And, you know, we're telling people from at least in my perspective, when I see people I don't do this big intake thing like you do, but it is pretty funny every once in awhile walk into when we used to be able to see patients in the office and somebody will have a McDonald's cup right there. I'm like, yep, there's the problem. Don't even know who you are, what you're here for. I don't care. That's the problem right there.
It's contributing for sure. Yeah,
How in the world you go from the hospital and say I'm gonna make a complete change here and be a holistic or basically an integrative dietitian.
Yeah. So it just wasn't as rewarding as I had anticipated it being you know, I felt it was, it was I was making a difference, which is part of why I chose to get into nutrition in the first place. I was making a difference with some of these people, but to your point, they their families, and you know, they bring back McDonald's and fast food to these people and the diabetes, you know, people they'd be in there the next month, and then the next month, and it's just anyway, so it became less where I felt like I was really making a difference and that anyone was really listening to anything about nutrition and it was such an emphasis on surgery and such an emphasis on medication and my role was very seemed more like data entry almost. And so I just wasn't making the difference with the clients because I didn't have enough time to help them out and really talk through them. And, you know, we get trumped by those other things in the hospital. And so it was a good experience. But I just started looking into just started reading and started looking found functional medicine and thought this is really interesting. This is really, they're really getting to the root of what's happening, which often is there's people's diets, you know, there's these other factors of course, but this is really cool. And so back when Craigslist was kind of a thing. I recently got on Craigslist and was looking for a job you know, I had a job I was fine, but I thought I want to see if there's anything else out there. And I came across a position in a small boutique functional medicine office working with the MD obgyn, who had her private practice. And the idea was always that I was going to do nutrition consulting, but I kind of started off doing more office kind of running her office and helping explain things to clients and stuff. And then she ended up taking off into a bigger center and I started growing more skills and was able to take these consults on and learned, you know, by shadowing and stuff, I learned a lot of how to interpret tests and you know, help people with, with how to, to make those changes that they needed to make.
That's awesome. Just to let you know, I just got on Craigslist right now and there's no jobs for functional...
That was totally a godsend thing. Like, I didn't even look very long. I think I was one of the only people she interviewed like it was meant to be. It was meant to be but it's funny how I found it.
You also have some, some experience with functional lab testing as well. How did you how did you make that leap to do that now not all functional dieticians do that.
Yeah. So it really you know, it's just as again a blessing of kind of shadowing these doctors and these, you know, people that have been doing this for a long time, they really taught me a lot of what I know about interpretation. I didn't learn it in school, or any of the certifications, you know, that I've done, except for one that's kind of more recent. So I just started shadowing in on appointments, and listening and learning and taking notes and studying and understanding, you know, that these are the actual ranges that we want to look for from a preventative standpoint, and why and how conventional ranges are based on sick population of folks and for the most part, and that there's a lot more that we can look at, versus just some blood tests. I think blood tests are valuable. You know, and urine tests can be valuable, but there's so much more that we can explore and understand through looking at the function of the body, you know, because the body works really hard to keep keep the blood clean, and you so looking at urine and looking at its stool test and looking at saliva to lesser extent really opens up a lot of a lot of areas and helps it be that much more individualized and focused. So that's the other really great thing is that with functional medicine we're always so with functional medicine, we we get to make it personalized and by asking all these questions, and diving deeper into their life and what's going on, helps us determine what direction we want to go.
Okay, so I have a patient and I'm treating them for this is whatever I'm treating the for anything, ulcerative colitis. I say you know what your I don't think that your diets on point I think your whatever so I send them to you what would be some typical labs that you're talking about that you would want to look at that, that me using the do ologies of quest lab or lab core, you know, the two largest ones that have the standard ranges, you're saying that you can dive deep Just give me an example of the, the elevated care that you can do from at least a lab perspective.
Yeah, so like, if it was a digestive patient, you know, and they hadn't had any stool tests done anytime soon. I always like to look and see what they've got what they had done, right. So we don't rerun something that we don't, you know, is not necessary or helpful. But I would want to look at a stool test and beyond what most stool tests show, which are just some of the pathogenic bacteria or some of the pathogenic parasites or something maybe pretty limited, you know, and with a stool test, we can actually look and see who's all living in there, right, because we know how much the microbes play a role. So it's bacteria fungus viruses, worms, parasites, all those things plus digestive function. So looking at, you know, bile acids, pancreatic elastase looking to see how those organs are functioning, and then and then also inflammation and different markers from the immune system, I think is really helpful to put it all together and then use nutrition and supplements and lifestyle like mindful eating and, and whatnot, you know, to help them to eradicate those things. So like a colonoscopy or endoscopy or biopsies can be helpful, obviously, you know that and for structural findings and different things like that. But with a stool test, we can most often figure out Where's that? What's that is the source of the inflammation, you know, a lot of times so what, how can I help kind of coach people through understanding that they can have all these things going on without even having gut symptoms your person but you in your recommendation, you know, obviously would, but there are several people that I see that that I, I do stool tests with because what we know about the connection with immunity and neurotransmitters and you know, just overall health and in vitality metabolism, so that would be one might be, I might want to look at nutrient and vitamin levels through blood and urine. So, there's a really cool test from Genova called a Nutri eval. I don't know if you guys have heard of that before. But it looks at vitamin and mineral levels. It looks at a snapshot about neurotransmitters so some of the organic acid metabolites. It looks at heavy metals in whole blood. So that's kind of cool, you know, to show people cool i guess is a relative word. I got a lot of mercury.
Any chance that you've been eating paint? Bad news? Good news. I figured it I found it.
Hey, I've got a question for you Gabrielle when in utilizing these functional medicine tests because I think that we all know that they are on they're on the the early stage of really figuring out and they're learning each month on what new parameter matters most and then and we've all three of us seen where they thought the emphasis would be here and sometimes they dial it back only to find out that it's actually in this direction. Have you seen or ballpark? I guess I know you've seen it, but can you ballpark about how many people do you have an initial study on that after good guidance, good counseling and obviously adherence or compliance to what you lay out for them...how many how many or what what percentage roughly come back and then in six months or 12 months have shown an improvement a desired a desired improvement in those tests?
And then before you get to that, also, if you can figure out what happened to Eric there, we had that Pettit mal seizure where he slowed way down and then sped way up. You could fix that also.
Is that is that not something that y'all wanted?
We're both staring at you in slow way down and then.
Yeah, yeah, I dialed all of that in.
So I don't know. You know, I wish that we had something a little more concrete, you know, to offer. No one's doing any real research on any of that in our office. But I would say I don't ever have anybody not get better. It's just to what degree did they get better and how fast so yes, I like to kind of set the stage of depending on what's going on. Most people are not going to fully eradicate the situation, you know, sooner than six months. But they're going to start feeling better within a couple weeks if they really start changing their diet,
You could say an improvement in those at least correlates you're seeing correlation between improvement in quality of life happiness. And I would assume that certain symptoms would always include the general anxiety, sleeplessness, etc. as those things begin to improve, even though this is somewhat relatively new science, you're seeing a correlation to improving the quality of life, as well as an improvement in these these essays or these deaths.
Right, more so what I'm kind of measuring is this Yeah, the conversation that we're having what they're telling me is going well and you know, what their mood is, but I also have a symptoms questionnaire that people fill out that rates different body systems and different symptoms within those body systems. So like, there might be mind or emotion or digestive or skin or whatever. And so then they put a number out next to the side of it, and I'm always looking when they come in for the next visit. Did those symptoms go down? Right, did they get better? That's always the goal. And then if there's an outlier that didn't get better, right, like their sleep still stinks or something, then we're going to talk about that, you know. But so yeah, I think everybody is always getting better. Just some people need more therapies or more intense, you know, surgery or medications or something that absolutely happens, you know, but, but more often than not, the folks that are coming to see me are people that have actually seen a lot of other people with no to no avail. Because no one was really looking so much at their nutrition and lifestyle, because that's really where the money. You know, that's really where the money is, for most people. When they can change those things and get ahold of them. Things get better. Did I answer your question?
No, totally. I mean, because I think that it's such a relatively new approach and a new science in Canada. I've had some pretty extensive discussions on even something as, I say simple but people talk about all the time. It's fecal testing, and what out of all of the different things and there's various different labs that come and pitch his clinic on the services that they can provide. When it gets down to it, there are certain elements that people feel very, very dialed into on what those results may mean and a lot of the others, I think you were very honest, it's it's new, it's it's how are we collecting this data to make certain that we're heading in the right direction? Ultimately, a patient who doesn't feel well once they begin to feel well, you're at least solving some of the issues if they're sleeping better than you're solving insomnia, if they have decreased anxiety, then we're at least solving their anxious issues. So it makes sense to me that if we're starting to find correlating trends, then we're there we're at least beginning to crack the code on a lot of this functional medicine testing there, frankly, 15 years ago just did not exist.
Let me ask you that question from a from a clinical standpoint, so what I get away I get a lot of second opinions and a lot of people have actually found me through a functional medicine route, where they went allopathic. And then they went through a bunch of functional medicine style. Like all practitioners, there's good bad, there's things and then they end up spending quite a bit of money. And then they'll show up and they'll have five different stool studies from different places, Genova vibrant, wherever, and they'll just hand this big packet to me and go, what's this? And I remember listening to some different practitioners talking about stuff like this, they're like, look, we can analyze the stool, how we manipulate it is kind of or how we get it better is sort of the hard part. Being able to get a genomic sequence is the easy part. The hard part is what you're going to have to do with that. So what would you typically do? And I said, I was turned on to it. You know, we developed Atrantil for bloating and stuff like that. And I remember I was asked to give an IFM talk, the local Dallas IFM group and Betty Murray was there and a bunch of the other functional medicine doctors were there. And somebody had mentioned that they checked stool studies. And then what they wanted to see afterwards they checked it after treating with Atrantil which has the polyphenols, like in your little Facebook post great. And they, they said that it increased the microbial diversity. So from a integrative dietitian, what would you do with those stool studies? Because I'm flat out, I look at my patients, and I go, I don't really know what to do with this. So how would you and it's almost always the same thing, dysbiosis gluten intolerance, candida overgrowth, and then you have a disproportionate growth of these different bacteria. You know, we have 100 trillion bacteria there. So it's always it's always hard for me to look at somebody that's spending $800 on each one of these stool tests, and go I don't know what to do with it...yet. We're learning first step is being able to, to look at it. Second step is figure out how to manipulate it. So how would what would you do with those stool studies and this is less of an interview question, more of an advice.
And I think it's really great to that you're just you have mentioned that we don't know everything that we're always learning, but everything is always growing. You know, I think that that's a real sign of intelligence. And something that functional medicine kind of prides on is is evidence based and just continuing to grow that one size doesn't fit all, right. And so yeah, I think that there's some of the similarities that would happen across the board from different stool tests, no matter what it was, and you mentioned several of them. So, depending on what we find, you know, we might, I'm going to use supplements and food and lifestyle. So let's say, you know, again, if it's an overgrowth situation of bacteria, and if they're having gas and bloating and distension type symptoms, then I may offer the low FODMAP, you know, food plan, which you guys are probably familiar with, just you know, looking at particular starches and fibers that helped to starve out those bacteria and try and work with them on that. If they...
How long would you let somebody be on a low FODMAP diet?
That's a good question. I really don't try and do it very long. I really try to do it at least for a month. But I don't do it much longer than that, depending on their situation. Now, if they're not somebody that's compliant with taking some of my antimicrobial supplementation or gut repair supplements, or they're not doing you know, a lot of other things then I might keep them on it longer because they're probably still having the symptoms. And I think at least we're starving out those bacteria. But where I'm trying to meet people where they are because another thing to always think about when you when you're giving food plans, or diet protocols around stuff is people's ability to make that food, write their resources, their flavor preferences, their schedules, etc, etc, right and so I can show them this FODMAP plan and say this is, you know what, why this will work and here's the foods and you know when to eat those foods, but then I'm going to take that time to really break down how they can make that happen. And that also determines the timeframe of how long and whether we make any exceptions or not, you know?
So this gets into your so that you're the integrative dietitian, but then you have to put on your hat.
The coaching hat, yeah.
Then you have to do that, because you have to change habits here.
That's right.
You got to educate and then get them to believe in it. And
Yep, educate them and tell them the why and then figure out what their why is and then help them do the things you know. And so, like I like to say it's biology to behavior change. So, you know, depending on what we find.
Do you own all these cool quotes that you're throwing out there. Like have you trademarked them? I'm about ready to make some t-shirts.
I haven't. We can all use them. We can all share them. You make a T shirt now that you can you can have it that'd be cool. So, as long as you let me wear one. So what else would I do supplement wise? It depends, you know, because it depends on what we're dealing with. But it's Yeah, it's it's helping them to, to take ownership around what they found here and how it got created and then try to help them see that it doesn't. changes can happen without all happening at once. They can happen as the people are ready. So it's all on their on their timeline. And I can give advice and I tell them, I'm never going to steer them in the wrong direction. But they're in charge. Right. And I think that's where the coaching, the functional medicine specific kind of coaching comes in. And why I decided to, you know, to do those certifications and then become national board certified because I really believe that functional medicine, just health coaching in general, but specifically functional medicine is going to be really where the life change happens for a lot of these people, because skill sets like your skill set would be more utilized in doing the actual procedures, explaining to them about the results, you know, and but then they need, they need help doing the protocol to address the results. And so so that's why I think coaching is so vital because it's going to really allow for practitioners to partner with coaches to be able to help the client with their success and their their health because a lot of people just don't have the time or, you know, that really, a lot of times it's the time to take with with people to really invest in that as much as you might be interested in it. You know, you're you're busy doing this and you're doing this and then. So partnering with a coach is can be really helpful to help hold that space for the client.
Yeah, I think that's amazing. And I I'm under utilizing health coaches right now in my practice, and part of it is just because the, the demand, that's the, you know, it's a high volume, I get very, you know, second third opinions where we're trying to go through some different stuff. And so as a, as a coach, what I, what I at least tell my patients is that I try and take some of the burden off of them, because what you have is somebody that feels guilty about how they're eating fast food, and they're driving home and they're, they're tired, and I try to explain to them that sometimes it's not you. It's the fact that you've cultured these microbiome that are sending signals to your brain to do a follow up on that. So what I want to know as a health coach are one of the terms that I are one of the things I try and do with my patients is create friction on the bad habit. Meaning let's find a way to make it more difficult for these kind of things to happen. That's kind of how we got people to quit smoking. We just tax the snot out of it and people stopped. So creating some friction. Do you ever have you found little techniques to help your clients overcome? Because it's that first hurdle, that sugar crash the way that I mean, I, I truly believe that a lot of those people, they intellectually want it. But it's it. That's how they grew up. That's where they're at. It's I mean, we can talk about different cities. I was just in a small town in East Texas and my son and I were trying to eat healthy and that was not possible. Just period.
Right? Yeah.
What are some of your tricks as a coach? Some of your secrets that you win?
Um, I think my secret is being mindful and intentional and really trying to be there and present with them to hear what it is that they need. Because everybody is truly different. I really don't even like if we use the sugar craving, you know example. There's probably about 10 different reasons I could come up with right now that people have for why they have sugar cravings. So I think it's taking the time, I think one of the tricks I have is taking the time with them, to build that rapport, to help them understand that they can trust me, that I'm authentic, that we can be honest with each other. That, that I'm going to give them informed consent. So I'm going to tell them pros and cons about things. But I want to understand more about like you said, they intellectually might know that they don't want to eat this, you know, cookie, but then they keep finding themselves coming back to the cookie. Well talking through their day and what else surrounded that and kind of helping them to let me in a little bit to the scenario helps me figure out where I can guide them where I can coach them. It might not be you know, while I think it's helpful to share with them that maybe their yeast overgrowth is contributing to their sugar craving, I want to also spend time talking to them about how what we're doing is helping to get rid of that that threat. And what other scenarios can we do in our life that that also could contribute to sugar cravings? How can we kind of be proactive about not putting ourselves in that situation? So it's kind of similar, where we create a friction, we make it hard for them to do that, that habit, sometimes I go that route, but some people need other types of encouragement or there might be, you know, it might be that really, the reason why they go to that cookie is because they had an argument with their spouse that they have almost every night. You know, and so what needs to be addressed over there? Or is it that they didn't eat all day long, you know, and maybe that's why or whatever, you know, there's various different things. So I don't know if that's the kind of a long answer to your question about what are my like specific tricks because everybody I just try to kind of feel them out. And I probably have a couple of one liners as you can tell, you know, that I throw in and mix those in. But I just want them to know that I'm there for them. And that help is really a cool thing where it doesn't happen in a black and white all in or nothing kind of scenario. It's all every step you take helps you get there, right and figuring out why you're doing it and then coming playing back into that motivation can keep them on track along with education.
It seems to me like that such a such a key part in so many things on changing one's daily habits into better habits is just simply recognizing what puts you where you are. And you hit the nail on the head. We've we've talked about certain different things, maybe not necessarily in terms of just health coaching, but I completely agree with you Gabrielle, if you can identify what is triggering you to do something that you already don't want to do, then obviously, that's not the way to deal with the thing that you don't want to do. So it's, it's more or less, can you improve a different part of your life...it sounds to me, can you improve a different part of your life or change your routine that's going to allow you to not necessarily feel the need to, to break the trends, is that kind of right?
Yeah, I think and I think we all need partners. I think we all need help and coaches and support and guidance. You know, I don't think any of us have anything all figured out 100%. So, the coaching can come in and help you shed light on on things that you may not take the time, or have the ability to break it down and see it that way. You know, see it from a different angle,
Eric's pretty close though about having everything figures out.
Well, that's pretty obvious. So we can all learn a lot from from Eric. I myself. I don't have it all figured out.
That's a ridiculous claim. But thanks for playing along with Ken. That makes me feel really well.
I mean, are you kidding? I said in the very beginning, I'm learning how to breathe. I haven't even mastered that and I've been doing that for almost 50 years, so.
Okay, so I've got something I've got something that Gabrielle shared in our intake Ken and I'm just curious if you can name any of her so we've heard the way that she scientifically thinks through a few things, etc. Ken and I, whenever we scope together we have different days different playlists, we try to listen to pretty much everything. Can you just out of thin air pick one of her top five bands, she's listed five on here I believe no actually she listed six. She doesn't follow rules very well, but she listed six and none of them didn't debut before the year 2000. So all of these looks like they were in in in the 90s. And all of them are are bands I listen to can you name one of them Ken.
Yeah so this this should be pretty easy because everybody I've ever met that serves Craigslist loves Metallica.
So close but no not even there not even not there.
See? She threw me off with the Craigslist thing.
Yeah. I know.
Her first band listed and I love this because we were just...last week is rage against the machine.
Oh, that's awesome.
Cake is definitely
Cake is a good one. Yeah, Metallica is a good one too.
Eric and I are big I basically well we basically always have music going at all times. And so it's a it's just part of our existence. It helps the patients patients come in. If you're a patient listening to this, you know that there's always some music and then it's funny. Because I've had patients for so long that they'll come in and be like hey, you had like whatever hardcore rap playing last time and now you've got some some funky soul going on and I'm like yeah I evolve
Yeah right like we should
Yeah but check this out, her span is large really because even though these are somewhat related to actually they hit a lot of stuff it's it's Rage Against the Machine she listed Soundgarden which of course is that great Seattle sound then you have sublime, which is a huge...
Are you kidding me? I don't like the Santeria buddy
And she gets into some quest love and she she put on here the roots, then the fugees and no doubt so I
Holy cow if I just actually would. I was trying to be funny about the Craigslist, but I probably would have said those
We're all in good company here. Absolutely. And there's a lot out there. So you know it's just I was saying trying to think bands specifically right I feel like there's not.
This is perfect this is inside these are to me these are not throwaway band names This is they you didn't you didn't go with in the last 20 years you were with people who typically write their own stuff. Lots of bass, heavy, very talented bands. So no, I'm into it. I think that's awesome.
Cool, me too.
Well, Ken did you have anything...
I got I got I got one of the things I want to throw this at you Gabrielle what are the top three things you tell your coaches or that you tell your clients as a coach, non nutritional that you have them do to their lifestyle?
Mm hmm. Well, I talked about quality, quality of air quality of water quality relationships, quality of food. But I tell them to move, tell them to move their bodies find something that they like
I thought you said you need to move out of your house
You need to move. I tell them to move because it's toxic. And they gotta get out of there, I tell them to move their bodies go outside, get in the nature. If they can do one in the same with that, then that's really, that's really a sweet spot, to get some sleep, to know their worth.
That's awesome. It actually seems like it all augments on everything else that you're trying to teach them.
I hope so I hope that's the message just to empower them. That's really what I want to do is I want to empower them to know that their choices are super significant, to live a healthy, happy life that they're proud of and show up in the world the way they they want to. And hopefully I can help them you know, accomplish that.
You've said the word empower several different times. And I like the way that you're talking about this because you've talked about relationships a few times empowerment a few times, self worth. So I'm seeing a theme here that how many of your clients coming to you, and they do not feel good about themselves. So therefore, it's hard for them to treat themselves well.
Yeah, I would say a good percentage. And it doesn't always come out in the first visit. Sometimes I have to dig dig around and I find that but it's not just females, it's males too. And the younger the, unfortunately, some of the younger generation of kids. Yeah, some teenagers that I see.
Yeah, so that's that people like you are so important. And clinicians like you are so important, because what I'm seeing a ton of right now is I get people with irritable bowel, Fibromyalgia, fatigue, and they're on four different antidepressants. They're on anti anxiety and they're 22 years old. It's very hard for me to sit down, look at that and go over the side effects of your drugs alone are going to be the uphill battle of how we get you feeling better. So I think that more people are taking that approach is awesome. Were you going to say something Eric?
Yeah, actually, I think that's what I'm gonna build upon what she said what you just said. And when you you listed specific In fact, you listed four different things. But the last thing you said was know your worth. But the first three things were actionable. And knowing your worth is a hard thing to do, because now there's instructions on how to know your worth. And then when you ever you said young people in Ken said that your position is very important. I'm just curious if you're trying to coach someone who is young. One of the newest devices that is effective is the cell phone. And do you ever have to find yourself telling someone hey, possibly, if you're looking at your screentime registry per day, which is I think on iPhones, you can set it so that each week it tells you how many hours you've spent average each day on your phone if possibly driving down the pervasive or social networking thing might help them get over some of the driven anxiety or different things like that. Is that something that you ever have to coach someone on?
Totally yeah. And so not only from a comparison standpoint and constant stimulus standpoint, but also from a Wi Fi you know, radiation standpoint too. All of that stuff can be contributing to their to their mood. Yeah. So we talk about it from both angles.
Hold that thought, I'll be right back.
Hey, while he's stepping away, I was gonna say did you did you happen to see that there is a US representative or senator but here recently, they Just came out with a clip where they are introducing legislation to ban Tik tok, for instance, from being used on any governmental devices, especially for anybody in the Pentagon because it is an addictive app that is essentially recording keystrokes, everything so now they're they're cataloguing your passwords. They're cataloguing what you do all day. And it's it of course, it's it's preying upon your emotions, your anxiety, making you feel as if you have to use it over and over and over again.
Yeah, they say data is the new oil. Right? So we're everyone's looking to capture as much data and the more devices we have on us all the time, you know, the easier it is for them to do that.
So I'm late to the game with the whole EMF thing because Eric and I've been part of several, I don't know what do you call them entrepreneur groups, and there's a lot of functional doctors part of it. About Wi Fi EMF. I got myself a volt meter.
Oh yeah. What are you finding?
Well here's why I'm trying to do some earthing and some grounding. So I got a silver embedded sheet that I'm now doing it, I can, I can plug this with my volt meter and I will grab my phone and the volts just go up and you're like, ah! And then I was watching a video where some guy walks closer towards a power line and it just starts going up.
Off the chart.
Yeah. And I'm like, Oh, so I need objective data. So that's kind of my thing. Like if you say that you go EMF Oh, that's quackery. And then I go get something to prove or disprove it. And you're like, oh, man.
Oh, wait, there's something to that
Wait a minute. There's something to that now I start thinking about putting my phone in my pocket. I'm like, that's a little too close to the nether.
Right. Yeah.
It's it's funny because when I talk to my colleagues and stuff, and just it just, we're inundated with so much information and you're right, the phone is certainly one of them right now. But when you're talking about this stuff, it's like, if you vomited all that at once at somebody, then you almost discredit yourself. It's like they're all over because you do get a lot of people that that have this passion and when you have a lot of passion about something I do, I tend to vomit and talk about it all the time. I'll listen to a podcast Eric will hear me talk about we need to breathe everybody cover your right nostril, now your left nostril we're gonna. But your ability to develop the relationship with your clients is what's really going to make the difference and your ability to take the time to explain these things validates the actual field. So thank you for doing that. That's awesome.
Yeah, my pleasure. I really feel blessed to do it. And it's nice to, you know, see people's people that people to be able to step into, you know, what they want to be and what they're kind of called to be. Not that I'm, you know, my guru healer or something, but I think we all play a role in that and it feels really nice to to encourage people in that way.
Well Gabrielle I know that what if people go to livingwelldallas.com that's livingwelldallas.com they can find you as well as the clinic itself is there. What else can you tell everyone about how they would like to connect with a Integrative Health Coach like yourself?
Um so I'm on all the social media platforms as well under Gabrielle Randell and then I have a YouTube channel where I have some some videos on there some helpful tips and I plan on continuing to add to that and and yeah on the website you'll be able to see my information and then my email is Gabrielle@livingwelldallas.com.
So what I would really like to encourage this was more of a get to know you. Let's just showcase Gabrielle we've got this incredible person in our city. Hopefully we'll able to reconnect in the studio and be more in person. What I would like to see is anybody listening shoot some questions related to this and then maybe we bring her back and it's like a ask me anything episode. We get her kickin some knowledge and stuff like that.
Ama. Ama Gabrielle Grandell with ama on GCP. It sounds really good.
Yeah, I'd love to come back.
Well, that'd be awesome. That'll be easy, easy to do. We'll have all of your connectivity stuff listed in the show notes. Of course, in today's show be listening on the audio platform just go over to gutcheckproject.com. Look under Show Notes for this episode number 37, with Gabrielle grandell, and you can connect with her as well as shoot us a question and we can set up the AMA. Let's see here.
You had one of those Pettit mole seizures again, that's so funny.
It sounds It sounds so normal over here. And I guess over there, it doesn't at all, but I can tell whenever y'all are laughing halfway through me talking that something is happening.
Well, we kind of look at each other through the whole zoom. You know, like when you kind of get an idea of where you're looking on the screen. And so yeah, that is that is awesome. I love where you're coming from I we're speaking the same language, I have a lot to learn. So and that's kind of so i'm i'm excited every time we do something like this, we'll learn a little bit more.
Yeah, well I was excited to be here and talk with you guys. I wanted to mention that not only do I see people in my private practice, I also work with other practitioners that utilize me as their health coach. And so I have people in other parts of the country that that have health coaching as part of their program that people have purchased and then they have set amount of appointments with me. And so we do those over the phone or via video using the doxy website right now.
Thank you so much for coming on. This is is going to pretty much conclude episode number 37 This is Gabrielle Grandell. Thank you so much integrative health coach and living well Dallas and I say that correct, right livingwelldallas.com?
Uh huh that's right.
Livingwelldallas.com and we will more sooner rather than later have Gabrielle on for as Ken's already announced an AMA episode which who knows how long that's gonna go
Yeah we got to figure some stuff out go to kbmdhealth.com look at the information we have the products we have there, and then eventually we're going to get Gabrielle to give us some sort of coupon code for our for our listeners to get to ama or coaching or just just sweet vibes from her just put, just put it out there some self worth VA makes you feel better about yourself.
Oh, hey, last thing Ken you Ken you have to do the disclaimer
Oh, I keep forgetting to do that.
Doctors.
Gabrielle as it turns out, we're talking about a lot of medicine and things like that. But if you do have any unusual symptoms perhaps a weird rash, please do not use this show for the treatment of that we are not here to diagnose or treat. We are here to give some information and have some fun. Go see your doctor if that rash does not clear up. Anything else?
I agree.
That's our disclaimer.
That's a very official disclaimer. All right, folks, thank you. gut check project and KBMD health community. Gabrielle thank you once again, that's Episode 37. We'll have everything up with show notes if you'd like to connect with her and we will see y'all next time. Thank you.
All right Right on.
Thank you guys.
Hello gut check project fans and KBMD health family We are here for what we think is going to be the last installment of the COVID files Episode 7.0. I'm here with your host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. And I honestly we, we got to a point where maybe we've just kind of COVID'd out. So we're going to book in this with some very important information simply because it's stuff that just came up. So what do you say Dr. Brown?
Absolutely. I mean, I think a lot of people with everything that's gone on recently, it is just absolute overload. Part of the overload also is the amount of literature that's coming out regarding this whole COVID situation. We hear one thing we...you know, something else happens we know that all of a sudden, there's articles being retracted now and we're going to talk about that and then there's articles where this and that now it early on, if you look at our original COVID files, I really felt like we were doing a great job of staying of informing our audience and we stayed way ahead of the mainstream media. We were saying things quite honestly a couple months before stuff started getting out. And now we're finding out that okay, everybody's now starting to get or everybody you can get a preprint done, which now you can look up and you can do this and that's what we're going to talk about. I do have a kind of cool preprint whether it's true or not, but now it's almost like you have to put an Asterix next to scientific studies that are being put out there. And that's what we want to talk about today. Because as of this week, the who unfortunately got put under fire a little bit for saying some things and we want to talk about that. We want to then hopefully move on, get back to gut check project, get back to talking about food, nutrition, health, lifestyle, biohacking, all kinds of stuff that's a little bit more in our wheelhouse, but we I think we did a really good job of addressing the COVID attack that came on but I think it's, we just have to wait and see how it plays out now and then re circle back when everything's open.
I'm in no, no joke. So let's let's just get straight to it. So and I'll preface only by saying this COVID file 7.0. And then we've had the half sessions where fortunately, Dr. Stewart Akerman has joined Dr. Brown to bring pertinent information for tests and interpretation. We've we've really kind of slowed down on trying to dive in much more on COVID because there's just been so much information just like what you said. And then what occurred earlier this week with some probably more misstated information than misinformation.
Misstated is the way to say it, yeah, yeah, for sure.
It's the World Health Organization which, by which full admission from my end you sometimes you kind of have to wonder what all of their motivations are. However, I feel that in this particular situation where Maria Van Kerkhove or Kerkhove I could be mispronouncing her name completely. I don't want to butcher it.
Yeah, well, I've got yeah, I wanted to talk about that because her and I are actually pretty good friends. Yeah, I mean, like the press refers to her is Dr. Van Kerkhove, but I know as Maria Rosanna de Joseph Van Kerkhove and that's how I address her because we're close like that.
That's cool, she sounded like she was from Nebraska. There's no doubt
Maria Rosanne de Joseph Van Kerkhove. There's some Latin influence we've got some Italian we've got some I think de Joseph is what is de Joseph if you have a D if it's a MC, something McClanahan then you say Irish a de Joseph a D, with a little E. Large J what is that?
De Joseph? I'm not really...
Van seems somewhat Dutch. Kerkhove seems
Scotch Romanian.
Scotch Romanian Yeah, yeah. So, but it's funny because this this poor woman was at a press conference and was asked a question and she said something to the effect of basically oh, asymptomatic people probably can't transmit or it was just off the cuff. And literally, within minutes, reporters were tweeting the statement, which then became virally shared on social media, which then was immediately put on the news networks. And then we've got poor Dr. Fauci coming on going aye you know he probably call it i'm sure they're friends he's like, and I'm sure there is good enough friends as me and her are so Dr. Fauci called Maria Roseanne de Joseph Maria Rosanne de Joseph Van Kerkhove. I think and she just went I know Dr. Fauci, I'm that was at a press conference and I was just talking to a colleague. So
So let's let's break down what she said she she basically interpreted and she has backtracked, but initially she made it sound as if acement....asymptomatic people or people who are not showing symptoms, even if infected, rarely transmit disease. Now this is this was big news because the reasons why we worked so hard to actively flatten the curve was because there was a threat of you may be spreading disease and having no idea. So in essence, what she initially said or the way it was interpreted was, well, what we thought was this massive threat. It's not that it doesn't exist. It's just not quite to the level that maybe we first were describing. And even I when I heard that I turned to you, I was like, did you hear what they just came out with?
Oh, no, I mean, that's part of the problem. We're still socially distancing. But as soon as you heard her say that and you got the tweet, you drove the hour and 10 minutes to the studio and I was like, whoa, I'm like, what are you doing we're socially distancing? You're like, didn't you hear what the who said? It doesn't anymore! I'm symptomatic. We're fine. And, you know, unfortunately, you know, I was masked up wearing my body suit and stuff and I sprayed you with the hose, get out of here, go back, go back to Decatur. because we're still socially distancing. Hmm.
Well, I think I just offended Eric, because he apparently dropped off this zoom call. So we've lost him for a moment. But it is true. What he's saying is that the who statement that Dr. van kerkhove mentioned off the cuff was essentially I apologize to our audience that I think I offended you when I said go back to Decatur because you you fell off, I apologize. I'm just saying will you please accept my apology and remain on this podcast with me?
Yes, I will.
Ok thank you.
I was really, really hurt there.
You're very, very forgiving man. So I was just, I was just reiterating that the doctor said an off the cuff statement that asymptomatic people. But what's really what the reason why Dr. fauci had to get involved. And the reason why it suddenly became spread through the news networks is because everything seems to become political. So that was why did we close the economy down? Oh, my gosh, let's get out there. And, you know, we were just talking on the last call that we just had with our partner, Mike logs in about how he was given the numbers in Texas. Some of the highest hospitalizations that we've had. I mean, I didn't see the article. Did you? Take a look at it? Actually,
I did. And I'm going to butcher the last two digits. But essentially, the high watermark I think, was 1900 hospitalizations within one day. And the numbers that they came up with this morning, I believe, is they closed business yesterday was 2500. And change. Yeah, so significantly higher percentage wise, probably for a state of, you know, several million. Still a low percentage overall, but regardless, it's it's climbing and what's very, very important healthcare is trends, because trends are what guide us in what it is that we have to treat. So numbers, maybe not huge percentages. Certainly noticeable but the growth and the trend is is what you need to keep an eye on and currently, we are technically on an upward trend and I and by the way, I'll add that the last three weeks temperatures have been higher, which is something that was thought to be something that would help tamp some of the transmission and infection.
That is, that is a great observation because, you know, a two months ago, that's that was a whole thing. China was putting publications out that showed in regions where it was warmer, the disease spread was less. And so we were all like, oh, all we have to do is make to spring and then summer's here, and it'll flatten the curve. And now we're seeing high numbers. And it's like 90 well, yeah, it's somewhere in the 90s. In Texas, at least where where we live, which is kind of northern Texas, in the Dallas area, or, and then so that I mean, I don't know, it we're all learning all of this, so.
Yeah. And to be fair, I guess you could still go back to what we've also agreed with, which is the incubation time could be as long as around 14 days. So maybe the transmission happened back before it really began to warm up and maybe maybe with the sustained temperatures high temperatures over 90 in our area will, will help will help to tamp that down. But it's again something that we won't know for another two, possibly three weeks and and in addition to that, something else that's reasonable to expect we all kind of thought numbers would go up because we began to open the state up for business. So maybe this is more than an acceptable number of hospitalizations given that we've more or less begun to open up some regular commerce allowing people to get haircuts, although I haven't gotten one. And you know, different things like that
Quarantine quarantine hair going on right now. Otherwise known as late 80s hair if you compare my I look like a super stressed out version of my senior photo right now. Yeah, just wow, that looks like brown. This guy looks like brown with wrinkles. He must have served a presidency term. You're seeing all those pictures where they show everything all the years later.
I feel bad I look and I look like I'm just as disheveled as I was in eighth grade right around on 10 speed.
Um, a couple quick things I did want to talk about before we jumped into some of the data about the who and why Dr. fauci was a little upset and everything. We did something really cool recently we did a webinar on the endocannabinoid system. And thanks to everyone that joined with that we had kind of a huge turnout on that one. It was super fun. But the endocannabinoid system we're gonna put a link in the I guess down below somewhere where people can look at that and and take a look at the webinar. No you're you're grimacing, we don't have to put a link there.
I think we do. I just want to make certain that it happens and that it's functional so
I like to throw you out there and just say Eric's gonna handle this and Eric will hand deliver your products.
I can say that by next week we will have a page dedicated to all educational series webinars so that if you it will always be free to register and and view the content. We just simply want to be able to communicate with people who find benefit from using the information. So if you wish to share it with someone, all they have to do is become a part of the the KBMD health community and they can access and watch everything. I think that's awesome. And I just want to say that the new plan with Atrantil is that Eric will be hand delivering all orders both online Amazon and if you need it for retail, it's curbside pickup. If you see a very handsome man with a beard and large 80s hair.
Much like we're trying to guess at what COVID numbers will be in two weeks. I'm going to guess that here shortly satisfaction scores for Atrantil are really gonna go down.
Alright, so, that being said, super cool that we did this webinar. I'm glad we talked about something called the endocannabinoid system which can actually help boost your ability to handle stress. Watch the webinar if Eric ever figures out how to do it, if he finds time between delivering the hundreds of thousands of bottles of Atrantil so this, this poor doctor, dr. van kerkhove was at a press conference said something and Dr. Fauci. Now let's talk about let's look at the numbers. Evidence shows that 25 to 45% of infected people do not have symptoms. 45 almost half of the people getting COVID don't have symptoms. And then if you look at the epidemiologic studies, the study where disease happens in various regions, we know that you can transmit the disease without symptoms. Here's the really fine line. how thin do you want to make this slice? What is a pre symptomatic person and what is an asymptomatic person? That's the key to this thing because pre symptomatic, you're highly infective, asymptomatic, you have no symptoms. This is the really hard thing. And this is why the who statement was a little bit difficult because if you're pre symptomatic, you're very infective. If you're asymptomatic, you're half of the people and we know that epidemiologically you can still transmit this virus. So what's the difference? And now they've been going on this significant campaign to try and retract some of those statements. So we've got Eric back. Thank you, Eric, for joining us again. For anybody that's watching this on YouTube. Eric has horrible add and he'll just like space out log out and be like, oh, I was doing a podcast better come back. You got a little issue with the internet there brother?
Man we've not had any issues. issues with our conference. In fact, you and I just had a meeting just before this, and we didn't have these interruptions. I'm, oh, well, you know what we knew what the topic is going to be. So I feel pretty confident in it.
No, it's awesome. I just I have abandonment issues. And every time you leave I. All right. So we were I was just explaining that the Chinese study mentioned that four out of five infected people don't know that they had it. And they don't know where they got it. So it isn't like they're around somebody that was coughing and all this stuff. And you had mentioned just a few seconds ago about how the SARS COV2 the virus that causes COVID 19 has can have a lengthy incubation period, you start talking about pre symptomatic versus asymptomatic. It's a very blurred line because you can have up to two weeks of no symptoms, and then cough a little and all of a sudden you go and get checked and you've got COVID or the average duration is five days, which means for at least the majority of people, five days, they're walking around shaking hands, saying hi doing whatever, which is why the social distancing was such a big deal. And so the whole who thing, you know, kind of threw a little wrench into what was going on because there's been like three major studies that looked at viral load of asymptomatic patients are similar to those who develop symptoms. Say that, again, the viral load in the back of the throat of somebody with no symptoms, that was diagnosed with COVID. So they were PCR positive in the back of the throat, and then they ended up developing or I'm sorry, that group did not have any symptoms, versus the group that actually had symptoms went in and got it. The viral load was very similar to that, and so, to say that the who was referencing that possibly asymptomatic people are non infective. They've come back since then and have really the doctor Dr. Maria Roseanne, de Joseph Van Kerkhove, has recently over the last day come back significantly and said, look, I was referencing this is the key here. This is the key to this. She was referencing three preprints studies. And that's where I want to go with this. She was not doing anything wrong. She was saying, Oh, I saw some studies kind of like you and I do on this podcast. Oh, we read this study. That it implies this. Does this make sense? Does this follow the trend does whatever. So it's very interesting that she's come back and said, yes, they were preprints it was just said in passing in a press conference probably shouldn't have been treated. It's not who policy it's none of that. So I just
Actually she was even in a press conference to when she said it, I think that she was kind of more or less trying to satisfy a question that was kind of pulled off sides. In fact, Archie john from Harvard Medical, said that he feels that the scientific arm of the who is very, very, very smart, very intelligent in fact he says they put our own government's decision making kind of to shame However, he said, what they are bad at is conveying information. So he, he's basically saying that their PR department doesn't necessarily coach them well on how to make what they are examining in terms of science without, I mean, this was a firestorm, at least for those who are paying attention.
Yeah, think about this. She's an epidemiologist. She's a PhD, she's an MD. I mean, this is probably like a wicked smart person. I...and you know, just got pulled off sides a little bit and just went nuts and then became a political thing. So it's a it's, it's one of those deals. So the bottom line is, basically, if you don't have symptoms, you're still infective. And it can be 14 days before and if you're pre symptomatic, and then I want to throw out a new term. Remember how we always talk about probiotics, prebiotics, post biotics. I'm gonna do the same thing with this topic. I'm gonna say that you are asymptomat...no, you're pre symptomatic, posy symptomatic and asymptomatic. So when you go back and look at this, it may be that a lot of these people said they were asymptomatic or posy symptomatic me, allergies are bad today. I would never think that if something were to happen, they'd be like, hey, you have you have antibodies to SARS Cov2. Have you ever been sick? And I'm like, yeah, because I would think of it as my normal allergy symptom. That's the posy symptomatic person.
That's cool that you bring up that delineation, because even some of the fodder on some of the articles written where they were trying to differentiate between pre symptomatic and asymptomatic and it's such a I mean, that's a that's a that's a lost cause unless you have a crystal ball and knowing that you eventually will become sick, you would have no idea that you're pre symptomatic. I mean, it's, it's, it's a weird, it's a weird thing to try to predict.
It's, it's super weird. And one of the terms that one of the doctors use, which I thought was really interesting, because I kept thinking about that how thin you slice the salami, never heard that term. Never thought about it before. Never thought about making a close call. How thin do you want to slice the salami, and clearly it was part of the vernacular of this person because they say it all the time. You know, that's a close call that's a thin slice salami right there. Where do they get that?
No, but so, honestly, we still need to be cautious. You still need to be careful those who are highly susceptible, though, I think that we're reaching that point where we've talked about it multiple times on what type of body habitus, etc, is going to be most at risk that hasn't changed. The elderly, the obese, those with comorbidities, the risk factors for those people, especially if they become infected has not changed. If you're going to be responsible in public, you need to be conscious of doing your part. And trying to do all that you can to not infect someone: social distancing if that's that your thing wearing a mask if that's your thing. And you're also going to get to a point where people are going to become complacent with not doing some of those things because people are willing to accept certain elements of risk. That's just the truth.
It totally is. And so let's I want to talk about two things. One, this hydroxychloroquine backlash that's been going on. So this is a great example of what is happening here. So there's been two hydroxychloroquine articles that have now been retracted from very prominent journals, the Lancet and the New England Journal of Medicine. And they've been retracted and they've been used much like the who statement and like a political way, a bipartisan, let's let's just say it what it is. The bipartisan way is that there is a lot of people in the current administration that believe that hydroxychloroquine is very effective. And these two articles were retracted, which is now being used as a political motive to discuss that. Here's the deal is that when you dive deeper into it, both both authors of these articles in The Lancet, and in the New England Journal of Medicine, were using one repository of data and that company has not had a third party audit of this. So don't know how much you can actually trust the data. But the author's if I'm a, if I'm a gastroenterologist doing a study on something, and I say, I need I want to publish a study on the incidence of gastrointestinal symptoms on COVID. Well, there's companies that all they do is just gather data, so that I can go in there and say this. And when that happens, I trust them. Because I'm not the kind of person that would spend another two months vetting them hiring a third party company, nobody is. So you have these two articles that were retracted, and I feel bad for the doctors that's probably spent a ton of time writing this going over it graduate students, I mean, hundreds and hundreds of hours to get a study out and then it's just yoink and it becomes some sort of manipulative pawn in this whole process. So if you read about that, it's basically that this company called surgisphere, a healthcare firm behind all the data would not allow an independent review of its data set. And because of that, the articles were pulled. And they, I looked further into them, and they would not allow it because the people that allowed the data to be given, it's a confidentiality, HIPAA, blah, blah, blah, blah. So it's very, like, I could never let a third party come in and do a third party company outside of my organization that didn't sign all the appropriate stuff to come in and look at any of my patients' stuff. So it's, it's as gray I mean, it's so gray. On the surface, they say ha, those articles were retracted. hydroxychloroquine kills people. And then you start going further and you're like, wait a minute, we still don't know. Wait a minute. the chinese were saying, we're seeing benefit. France, was seeing benefit early on. That's why we went with it. And now, when data's being published, it's retrospective analysis on data that's collected by this company that now is being put into question because nobody has looked at their data. They may be completely fabricating everything, they may be behind some huge giant political thing. Or maybe they really can't share the data with anybody with a third party person. And this is all that we got somebody's doing the work to do this. It's just this is where it becomes COVID overload, dude, I'm just like,
Well, you know, I mean, it's interesting, you bring it up, and you kind of describe it that like that, because and just for the record, I think I feel the same way. But let me see if I can summarize what you're just conveying to me. We're out here just a...you as a healthcare provider, you just want to know all that you can so that when presented with an issue, you can most effectively help a patient find a favorable resolution. Unfortunately, it's more than obvious that at certain intersections, politics will force either some information to be covered up, or the wrong elements of information to be pushed out. So that some other agenda or something else can either be satisfied or just temporarily delayed until something else occurs. And I'll only say that it sounds that way to me because I'm not necessarily a fan of any party view, if you will. But I, I just don't think that Trump has it in him to make up a drug name and just randomly assign it to a disease. He's lots of people already don't think he's fit the bill for certain things. I'm just going to tell you I don't think he's ever heard of plaquenil before someone told it to him.
Yeah, exactly. So somebody somebody said do this. Now it's being thrown at him. This phenomenal I'm just gonna say phenomenal because I actually looked up her credentials and she is just a badass, like, where she went to school, she went to flew to England to study and all this other stuff, you know, she does an off the cuff off the cuff remark, and now it's being used against her. And, you know, we've got these poor authors and I say, poor in the sense that you know, time money, you know, all this stuff everybody's trying. And as a scientist myself and as a bunch of articles that I'm waiting to publish that I'm trying to, you know, keep moving. I just can't find the time to do it if I carved out this ginormous amount of time to do it. And then it just gets drug over the coals because of something that was completely out of my control. I just feel for I just feel for them. And, you know, I got that being said, I want to talk about one other thing. A cool study that I created. Just came out. It's a preprint It's awesome. But I got it. I'm trying to hold on one second. Let me this is a got a little CBD going on here I'm going to do something
It's weird that you have some on you.
I know, it is weird, hold on. Everybody's gonna start doing this after I tell you about this article by the way. I just gargled my CBD.
He did.
Did that pique your interest at all about the article?
It's not the way that you normally have told or instructed patients to take CBD.
No, we have talked other ways of doing CBD and we're gonna do some serious studies on that once I can gain a little ground on how else CBD can be applied. We're gonna have some fun with that and we'll be talking big time for people but so, um, it's, I mean, it doesn't matter to you, because you got vaccinated for COVID but with me oh, weren't in the White House meeting room when
Yes okay for the record I did not so please don't email me that is not something that occurred this is not a hot mic I'm quite I'm well aware that this thing is on.
You're the one that showed this to me. Tell tell everybody about a bit.
It's a little over a month old but there was I think it was gah I don't remember what news agency it was. It was either CNN or Fox they picked up some guys getting ready getting ready for a press briefing in the White House press room. And one of them was overheard saying something I'm paraphrasing but we can remove these masks, etc, etc. Everyone here has already been vaccinated anyway. And of course, when I played it for you we both just stared at each other and said even if in jest that is really really weird, that's a strange joke.
I know, I what I think is funny is that the hot mic got it, and then they put it out there. But there was I well, I mean, I rely on you to show me a lot of this kind of topical stuff that's out
It was very Wizard of Oz the way they explained it, they're like, oh, no, no, that's just how we always joke. And I'm like, I know, you know no one jokes like that...
It was a joke. That's funny. We'll just call it a joke. All right. So this. So this preprint that I found, and what preprint means is that right now, more than ever, if you're a scientist, you can get some sort of traction on a journal article, before you have been peer reviewed. Once you're peer reviewed, then you get accepted into a journal. Usually they send it back to you to say, make these changes because we believe that that is hyperbole we believe that that is not you know, in reference one of our editors, one of our experts, and so that's what these that's why we say a peer reviewed journal. So this has not been peer reviewed yet. Hopefully it makes it because it's pretty awesome. The basically what they're looking at is does a full spectrum they they actually are using true a little bit of THC and they use varying ratios of THC but does a full spectrum cannabis plant and they also used below point 3% meaning so I interpreted that the title as does a full spectrum CBD product help with COVID-19 gateway tissues that was the title of the article or and does it modulate the actual title was does a full spectrum CBD modulate ace2 expression in COVID-19 gateway tissues and very, very interesting because there is a group in Canada and what they're able to do is they're able to acquire tissue human grown tissue from a company in Massachusetts that sends that uses this for studies. They took airway tissue, oral tissue and intestinal tissue, hence the gateway tissue. And basically the ways that you can become infected oral back of the mouth, which is why we swab it airway, the lungs and then intestinal, the gut. We've been talking about this and this is how this is where the majority of ace2 receptors are located. So then what they did is that they took those tissues and they caused an inflammatory response in them using TNF alpha and other inflammatory mediators and this induced inflammation. They checked the ACE two levels and they were up regulated meaning during an inflammatory process, or if you are fighting an infection, your ace2 levels pop up, which is exactly what you don't want with COVID 19 because the SARS COV2 virus looks for those, there must be some sort of beneficial effect to upregulate, ace2 and other environments. But during this pandemic, it's considered, you know, a detriment. So then they irritated these tissues, the gateway tissues, how you get infected. And then they exposed the tissues to like 22 different strains of CBD, or cannabis with CBD with varying ratios of CBD to THC. And because in Canada, remember the whole country is legal so they can they can play with THC and do stuff like that. What they found is that there was a consistent trend that the higher the CBD content, the more effective this was at both decreasing inflammation and down regulating Ace two receptors. So my whole tongue in cheek gargling CBD according to this study, in vitro, not in vivo preprint. And if you're gonna go, well, how did they figure out the ace2 levels? Pretty scientific. They did RNA polymerase for the dress. Yeah, they can actually see the ace2 receptors. And they showed this. And so they had me up to this point. This is awesome. So they speculated.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is a dismount.
Yeah. Well, it was because it's, it was super scientific. And then you realize that there's always a motive, or not always a motive, but there's a motive and, and as a entrepreneur, and as a doctor, I would have left this last statement out because it's basically showing the cards or whoever there whoever, because this was not done at an institution. It was done at a yeah, it's basically a cannabis company renting space at a lab. They said, therefore, further research has to be done. But speculating, looking at the ACE2 down regulation, developing a CBD mouthwash to gargle on a regular basis may be of benefit. Like, I wouldn't have said that. Yeah, you just said your business plan.
No joke.
So that's why I gargled but there's a really good example of a preprint I mean one week from now, if this if this gains traction and people start talking about gargling CBD mouthwash, remember it's a preprint. And it has not been peer reviewed, and there's probably a lot more that we need to learn about it and blah, blah, blah, blah. But it's at least I mean, you got to encourage the science you got to encourage everyone to get out there and try some stuff and say it.
I think it's a great heads up and true and truly back when we were even talking about lung infection as it is related to inflammatory markers, and COVID I guess it was four or five weeks ago, knowing all of that and and the circulating cytokines and TNF alpha, and in the presentation of Ace2 receptors being associated with that. What we're saying is is not really that big of a deviation to that controlling inflammation with a healthy ECS is still paramount.
100% which is, which is why the article made total sense to me because during that webinar, we talked about how your endocannabinoid system regulates your immune response. It makes sense that if you now what the what they did get into they just had a tremendous amount of great science in there in this article and they were talking about the full spectrum the terpenes, the polyphenols, the flavonoids that all have a inflammatory cytokine balancing proportion. And so this is another great example. They said, This is why we believe that a CBD isolate will not exact the same response, and I I like seeing companies say stuff like that, because I believe that Mother Nature grows it better, than we can actually produce in a lab so
And that's not even just a shot across the bow. That's just the truth. I mean, in my opinion, the the natural, the natural compounds that we typically consume, they're probably assembled that way, by nature for a reason.
Yeah, exactly. So kind of an interesting thing. We always want to talk about the science on the show. Um, I think that next time we get on here, we're going to be talking something different besides COVID.
We shouldn't shut down COVID all the way. But I do think we need to tell the audience that we I feel that we have given the most pertinent information without a new revelation possible without just drowning everyone in the same the same news over and over again.
Yeah, exactly. And it's it just becomes COVID fatigue. Yeah. And we've got we still have to help people I'm still doctor we still got to do a lot of things we got a lot of things that we're working on we got a lot of things that we're looking up we've got I mean, I want to talk to you talk about subjects in the future here I want to talk gi motility valle nerve activity, how to sleep in the best way to get your glymphatic drainage the best glymphatic I did not miss pronounce. I'm looking up articles where you can prevent dementia by sleeping in a certain position. And there's we got all kinds of stuff. So what I what I would really like is ideas. And we're to the point now where we start calling experts to help us out like we did with the post biotic lecture like we have with a few other people have been reaching out to us. We've had a handful of very nationally recognized people going I like what you're doing. Can I talk about my thing? Yeah, absolutely. Your thing is cool. That's that's where we want to go. So if you've got an idea of something, let us know we've got a repository of journal articles that is massive, unlike any other time in history that you can keep that many journal articles and it'll be fun to look back five years from now when we've got thousands and thousands and thousands of COVID articles and then you can arrange them by topic and then show the it'll be fascinating to write an article on the evolution of scientific data on COVID everything is a bell curve where it's just like the it's hot now it's not.
I agree. I agree. Well, man, we actually did it. We stayed well under an hour for a whole episode, so I'll let you know what else, yeah kind of amazing.
I've been writing some poetry Can I go get it and fill up the rest of the hour?
Tune in next time on the Gut Check Project when we have poetry and prose with your doctor Brown.
Just not now gonna hang up. Hey, thanks for thanks for staying on the longest you did on this podcast without like leaving so.
Yeah at the end yeah I wanted I wanted to stop ducking out for certain be certain everyone to like and share like and share the podcast we are ready to get back into the mode of gut check project. We definitely appreciate everyone telling us your stories how you stayed safe and so many of y'all written back saying that you are finding new safe ways to get back out and about and I couldn't be happier for all of you to resume your normal living and lives and continue to stay safe no doubt.
Absolutely. And as always, I'm a doctor Eric is a crna but we are not giving medical advice on this show. We are strictly doing this to try and entertain try and educate do not take any this information that we give as true medical advice, or, as it's always fun, always speak with your doctor.
Oh, and just to add, we are having today's episode and it is in the midst of the seriousness that has fallen out from George Floyd. We do not take any of that lightly whatsoever. And our thoughts are certainly with all of those who are struggling to handle this unfortunate situation, top to bottom and I'm hoping for some meaningful change that benefits everyone. No doubt.
Absolutely. It becomes very hard to every time that George Floyd is brought up, it becomes extremely hard to really think about anything else. And then the events that followed and we are no mine, or no way undermining any of that. There's no way that we're belittling the situation. And honestly, I'm encouraged. We're a few weeks out now. It seems that there is a movement that's going on. And one of the things that you and I both really like is we like music. And when you when you look throughout history that voter reform, women's voting rights workers unions, or workplace things, everything had a protest that sparked the interest of people that then resulted in a change. And I'm really hoping that I have a 15 year old boy and a 13 year old girl that we can look back at this in a very short period of time I was gonna say this large number of I hope it's next year that we can look back and go remember when things like this happened. Now they don't we've made changes things are better.
Without question, you and I, I think have very diverse histories while we grew up, and so I think Sometimes, even though I definitely wouldn't characterize either one of us as having race relation issues, even sometimes those of us who don't, we have to be aware of the complacency that that may occur, and then strive for better change. And that's what you really should be doing that with everything in your life. That's what part what this program is about, we don't want to become complacent in healthcare. We don't want to become complacent with social issues either. So,
Yeah, absolutely. Which is we've talked, you know, we work together and so we talk and it's it's just one of those things that it's disbelief. It's just disbelief.
It really is.
And if it and, you know, if I'm sitting around with somebody that went through World War II, like yeah, this is I thought about that. If I'm sitting with somebody went through the civil rights movement, they're like it was we were in disbelief then also. Like every time that a major change is gonna happen, disbelief happens. So I don't...
If the topic is a little uncomfortable, but the truth is, if it's making me uncomfortable, it's gonna motivate change. And that's okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
So well, again, everyone thank you so much for your support, like and share. Please support our sponsors, unrefined bakery Atrantil and of course, you can always check in with us at KBMDhealth.com. We have the new webinar educational series page that'll be popping up. And there's KBMD CBD, that Dr. Brown's holding up.
Look at that webinar series. And then of course, order your Atrantil and have it hand delivered by Eric.
That is not gonna happen. Thank you, everyone. Y'all have a great day.
Hello gut check project fans and KB MD health family, it's time to get back to the gut check project. This is episode number 36. With your host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. I'm Eric Rieger. Dr. Brown, how are you doing today? I'm doing
fantastic. We thought that we would get away from the whole COVID burden for a little bit, because it's Father's Day coming up. And you and I are both dads. You and I both had dads. Yes. And I'm very, very particular to the whole Father's Day thing, because unfortunately, my dad died 28 years ago, but I was very close to him. And I had a very close bond. And unfortunately your dad died three years ago, and three half years ago, yeah, three and a half years ago and we talked about our fathers a lot. We talk about what our fathers taught us. We talked about how our fathers helped us, and we tried to share those messages with our kids. And because of the show, we also try and share health hacks and so today's episode number 36. What should we call it?
This is going to be the 2020 Father's Day. biohacker special, we think of that
bio hacker special I like that the Father's Day bio hack special. That's actually called our hack special. Yeah, Mother's Day bio hacks special bio hacks special okay before we jump into it because we're getting into so many cool things that help your dad with and if you're a dad, you're like, I'm gonna want to do that. Remember this is for information only it's not intended to treat or diagnose and all recommendations here are for your information. And as always, if you have something weird going on, talk to your doctor. Eric, that goes for you stop showing me those weird rashes. I'm here for information and entertainment only. But seriously, get that looked at at some point.
Think that you just broke HIPAA regardless.
You're not officially my patient. That's the point. I'm here for information only. You're not officially a patient. You put my patients to sleep and he doesn't have a weird rash. If you've ever put sleep I just realized how weird that sounded.
Yes, it's not a weird rash. It's completely common everyone likes to see it. It's not a big deal at all. So
it's actually a very, very beautiful rash. So if you Whatever it is, it's it seems to be helping you don't
wait, let's, let's talk about something real quick before we get into it because I do get a lot of questions about the products that we have on the site and they're all very, very good. Occasionally people want to know, why do you only feature just three products would you consider carrying and it fill in the blank doesn't matter. They want to know if we have certain other things that we'd like to carry and not that we never would. But currently right now KB MD health. What we want to do is offer products that we know our top of the line and categories that could be relatively new, because what we want to do is help enhance your life and give you the science on why shopping for these specific products with Katie and D health is going to help you so obviously we have KB and D CBD. We've gone ad nauseum over how CBD works, but what we love about KB MD CBD what we branded is that it is Seo a all organic sustainably sourced and extracted the way that we need it to be so that we don't harm you and we deliver the best product possible with KB CBD. Of course we have our Tron deal that Ken brown here is the one who invented it. It's the world's only polyphenols source powered by Colorado, Colorado. That's important because it is a very stable large tannin or poly phenol that works in the small bowel to do what it needs to do. And it's available on KB MD health. And as far as I'm concerned and what the studies prove it's the best in terms of a polyphenol blend used for not only gut health, but systemic health as well. The last thing that we just most recently added was broccoli or actually broccoli Pro. Now broccoli is all natural, superior things and you may read about that. Fear of things. But broccoli is actually the only company that US has been able to demonstrate that they have a stable form of Sofia things that they can deliver to you. There's lots of different Sofia things and actually if you really look close, different concentration levels you can see them on on various websites. There is a reason that broccoli uses what they use and they combine it with curcumin which means it's only available from a physician. And can brown medical doctor KB MD is the one who makes it available for you to purchase. So the reason why I bring this up not only that people ask questions, but today today heading into Father's Day 2020 we put together a brand new combo package now available on the website. It's the biohack package. And essentially, you can choose it either with natural flavored CBD or Senate flavored CBD and you can get all three of those in a minute. is a tremendous savings already but we actually reduced it. Believe $42 off of that. So you can either get the signature package, which is our 20 on CBD, or you can get the biohack package which is all three with Brock elite. And they're both significantly marked down and darker brown anything to add to that before we get into something
yeah significantly marked down as a complete understatement. You and I were talking and we got to describe a we got to talking about our dads when we were working together retelling stories, and we're talking about what the memories of your dads and then how we share them with our kids. And then we said we should just do some sort of Father's Day special. And then we started talking about the discounts and I just kind of let I we're pretty much breaking even on this thing. He's like it's for our dads. He's like we got boys. We want to show everybody that that what we're going to talk about is backed by science and the things that we want to make sure Is that dad stick around, because we're going to get into all the science here. But the only thing I can add is, holy cow. We can't run this very long because this is truly a Father's Day special. You're a dad, I'm a dad, we love our kids. We miss our dads. That's the biggest thing. We miss our dads. If we could have intervened 20 years before my dad died 20 years ago died of complications of diabetes and a post kidney transplant. Had I known what I know now, I think I could have intervened on that. That's super important to me. Your dad died of cancer. Yep. Had we've known a few other things we could possibly have interviewed 20 years earlier. That's what we're trying to do right now. We're trying to make sure that we can be the healthiest that we can be. We looked at all the science so yes, it's going to be a very temporary discount and probably a once in a lifetime because ultimately it kind of hits our pocketbook so but we love it because we love dads and dads are super important.
Hundred percent can couldn't say it any better. In essence, I would say that today's 2020 Father's Day biohack special is not just about lifespan, but it's about one of your favorite words healthspan. We are going to see what we can do to talk about how do you actually expand your health span today? And I think we've got some solutions. So well, Ken, wherever you're ready to start. Oh, yeah,
I'm like you would totally expect. Let's start. I want to start talking about science study study published in the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society. And I want to talk about corvids. Do you want a Corvette is
AI? Well, Chevrolet makes them now
the Corvette? That's very close. All right, so corvids, our group of birds that include Jays, ravens and crows study just came out This is super cool. They're known to be one of the most intelligent genus of birds. So they're they're capable of using tools recognizing human faces and even understanding physics. Some researchers believe that crows may rival apes for intelligence and smarts. So this study looked at the fact that why in the world can a bird be that smart. So they looked at a database looking at thousands of different species, including more than 120 Corbett's. They compare them with other birds and they found one unique thing about corvids. They spend more time in the nest. They hang out with their dads and moms more than any other bird to the point that they actually stick around to help feed the offspring. They help feed their brothers and sisters. They don't leave the nest they learned from their parents. And the scientists showed that when you have a tight bond, a tight familial community that to grow apart Brain, at least in the animal community, it requires more food because the brain can actually take up a lot of energy. Does these birds have the biggest brains of all other birds? They learn hanging out with their dads makes a huge difference. So when I saw this study, that's what I said. And this just came out last week. By the way, it's not like I'm making this up. This strongly suggests that parenting helps shape their brains. Hanging out with your dad teaches you to learn certain skills that carry on and it grows bigger brains. So the only way that you can actually do this parental investment is through time teaching work, and the parents have to be around the parents have to be healthy. So this episode is about biohacking about being a dad, because being a dad is important. Let's look at the science and the Ways to fight aging, beat chronic disease even fight baldness. Let the corvids leave this example of a bird genus, with different species that they all have one thing in common. They hang out with their parents. And by doing so they learn. So we want everyone to listen to this podcast to understand that we're going to hack aging. That's the thing that we're going to do. We're going to hack aging and I'm going to take on several aspects. Aging can be intrinsic extrinsic. Basically, intrinsic is your hormones, the issues of metabolism, regulating bad genes. extrinsic is what you expose yourself to. You want to smoke all day you're doing this you got UV radiation, pollution, chemicals, toxins, you have control over both. Everybody thinks that they have control over the external environment. Well, I don't smoke and this and that. Now we're going to talk about that. It all comes down to inflammation. inflammation is the root cause of all disease and how it affects our bodies. So I thought what we would do is tackle a few dad issues, so to speak, and talk about how polyphenols endocannabinoid system plays into all of this. So that's kind of where I want to go with it, and how to help your dad or if you're a dad listening, how to biohack these different age aspects. That's where I want to go Where do you want to go with this, Eric?
I think that sounds awesome. If I if I knew how I could have loved how you started off by saying, if we could have done or intervened earlier with our fathers, if we could have found a way to have you know, Dad around longer it would have been incredible, but not just around around unhealthy and that's something I'm going to learn is how I can make certain that I'm healthier for longer so that I can hang out if my kids are both not boys, independent kiddos. I want to not just tell my sons They, as they get older and, and build families and go on and have their careers and do whatever it is that they do, I want to be able to, you know, hang out with grandkids all the same and, and be able to interact,
you know, so let's, let's be all Dave Asprey on this stuff and talk about how your great great grandkids are behind you on the ski slope when you get done and you're like, waiting on great grandkids. I mean, you know, you're gonna be 110 still skiing. I mean, this is what this is what we're going for. It's, it's the whole life hacking aspect is kind of what this is. This is all about and hopefully, this all plays out. We all try it. There's so many aspects in life right now that seemed like it's difficult to make it to that point, but I like taking control of certain things. So many things are out of your control. If you go and you know what Or a car accident or something is out of control. But if you choose to decrease the inflammatory process through different ways, if you choose to heal your gut, then maybe that plays that's the long term play. And you it's it's me, you and Dave Asprey sitting on a mountain waiting for our great, great, great grandkids to come down. Who knows? No jokes about him being 110. So,
yeah, no and I know that he's joking but and not to sidetrack either. But you mentioned a car wreck is something that you can't control it. Obviously, there are different severities in automobile accidents. But I mean, in the hospital time and time again, those who come in in the most stable health condition, regardless of the of the injury, those who are healthier at time of incident just recover faster, they, they make it through more quickly, their their prognosis is generally better, even though they've had this physical accident that they couldn't control. So I need you to give yourself the best chance possible, I guess is what I'm trying to say.
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So I just wanted to tackle a few organ systems that I think dads would like to hear a little about number one, skin health. And most dads we like to talk about skin health, but that actually shows your aging right there. Let's let's look at our presidents. There's all these pictures of presidents for eight years after, where they were that that stress on their face. So we're gonna talk about skin health, we're going to talk about exercise, we're gonna talk about testosterone, we're going to talk about exercising. And I think the most important thing you've heard me say it's time and time again, the gut brain access. Let's say that you live a wonderful, beautiful life and you've got kids. And in the last 10 years of your life, you don't remember any of it. That's the thing I want to protect. So we're going to look at all these hacks that possibly we can prevent any of that from happening.
I love that. And I mean, it's, again, it speaks to the idea of healthspan because I think that there's certainly is an Debate if if you're not participating in the life that you're living, is it really living? So do all we can to raise their quality of life for as long as you're as you as you're around?
Absolutely. Alright, so let's start with skin. So it seems superficial, but all kinds of assumptions are made about skin. Oh, you look younger Oh, you look like you're stressed or whatever all this other stuff. A lot of people go out and they buy things like vitamin C and retin, a and etc. But let's hack the microbiome on our skin, because you actually have bacteria in your skin. And the inflammatory response actually happens because of the inflammation in your body. So although you have a microbiome on your skin, it's not that easy to manipulate it, but in my practice, if you have intestinal inflammation, then you can also have skin issues like rosacea and eczema and acne and when I treat their gut I've seen so many patients that their rosacea clears up. I've had patients that have come back to me to tell me to put a blog out about how they've had rosacea for 30 years and retreat their gut. To me, it's second nature. If you have inflammation, you can have skin inflammation. When you have intestinal inflammation, this leads to leaky gut. And this causes body wide and inflammatory response, which triggers oxidative stress, leading to rapid aging and DNA damage. That's what I mean about the President's the presence and go through tremendous stress. You see it, it's that oxidative stress and DNA damage that prematurely kills the cells and that's what makes us age. And you're going to hear this common theme throughout this whole podcast. Inflammation equals disease. So if we can stop the inflammation, then we can help. So from my perspective, the skin Heck, if you're a dad, let's hack your skin. Number one, eat a colorful plate with no processed foods. This gets more polyphenols in your body. These are the molecules that give fruit and vegetables their color. polyphenols do lots of things. And they are potent antioxidants and anti reactive nitrogen species molecules. These reactive oxygen species are what caused the DNA damage. So in other words, oxidative stress, meaning when you have inflammation, it results in reactive oxygen species resulting in oxidative stress affects your DNA that actually makes you older. That's the kicker. So my hack for this is polyphenols, block that response and there's all different kinds of things to do for skin health. But everything you read about talks about the outside you, our good friend Tony Yoon has the anti age fix great book. Love it. A lot of it is on the outside. I was shocked to see that he's got a whole chapter on the gut. Get for you, my friend. Yeah, but he talks about that. So the skin the first thing that everybody talks about is Oh, you're looking great. They're looking at your face. Like your face right now with this weird light you have going on? This is awesome. Yeah, you still look great. You know it is good to look good, better to look good than to feel good or whatever that thing that Billy Crystal did back in the day. So yeah, so skin is the first thing we can protect the DNA damage by doing all that you got anything to add about skin?
Yeah, actually, you mentioned eczema, and I told you long ago that I'd suffered from eczema and it actually kind of coincides whenever IBS kind of started affecting me. And the last four years I have seen a significant decrease in my eczema flare ups which generally begin in the cold, cold weather months. I mean, it's it's it's nothing like it was six years ago before I started really taking my gut health seriously. So I'm back this last year I don't even think I even had a true outbreak, which is phenomenal considering I've been dealing with it for about 12 years. So
yeah, so if anybody suffers from psoriasis, eczema, rosacea, acne, and you go to your dermatologist, ask them about gut health and what they know about it. And we're going to be putting out some webinars and stuff about this in the future. But challenge them on that because if I fix your gut, then a lot of times a lot of these skin issues will correct themselves as a dad, not only if you don't have eczema on these different things, we're protecting the DNA damage. As long as you take away those EXO toxins from the world. Let's not expose ourselves to a ton of UV light. Let's not Change smoke and have oxidative stress all the time, let's try and do a lot of those things and avoid some of the the actual toxins that are out there. You can protect your skin and hopefully look younger than what you are by taking in these polyphenols. And at the very end of this, you probably like or get polyphenols and everything. Well, that's kind of why we have only three products there. And all of this that we're talking about, ideally should be done through the diet. Sometimes it's difficult to do it. And we'll get at the very end about how supplements can actually help with some of this
right now. And our bodies are all connected systems, right? And generally, in order for someone to have really good looking skin, and a great appearance, it's it's usually because the rest of the body's health is is doing well it's in check. And you think back to why people look a certain way and then how they are attractive in a primitive part of the brain. What what you're telling the other people in your species with a good looking skin etc, is that the rest of me is healthy. That's that's the outward appearance of something that's healthy, to not agree with you more and it's pretty exciting. So I got some more information coming later explaining pheromones and different stuff.
So, um, so as a dad, man, i'm john creeping on 50 right now. So the hormone that I care about that everybody talks about at my age is testosterone. Because as a male, we keep losing this over time. This seems to happen more in Western societies. There's a theory called the gelding theory it's GLD. It stands for gut endotoxin leading to a decline in go Natl function. gonad will function as our testicular function. It's a theory but it seems to make quite a bit of sense. Why do we see testosterone testosterone clinics everywhere around here. And if you go to Spain, I was in Spain a couple years ago, I didn't see one t clinic anywhere, whatever we can get into that. But the basic premises with a bad gut, bacterial endotoxins pass into the bloodstream through leaky gut, or intestinal permeability. This forces your body into this low level chronic inflammatory state. And these circulating white blood cells and cytokines we hear a lot about cytokines now at this time of year, because of what's going on with COVID. That tells the body that hey, you know what, you're sick. In a sick state, we don't really need to be reproducing right now. So I'm going to redirect our energy away from making testosterone and we're going to try and correct whatever's going on over here. So your body cuts back on testosterone. Usually BO A Did you outside don't add. Did you see that article about Diego, the hundred year old tortoise in the Galapagos that just retired.
Now I did how does a tortoise retire?
So as I'm sitting here saying that our testosterone decreases over time, there's 100 year old tortoise that was shipped from the San Diego Zoo to the Galapagos Islands. And he has sired over 800 babies in his hundred years. And apparently, they said he's retired or he just basically said, I'm done. I don't know. I'm just done. Back San Diego, I want to be with my other retiree friends. I don't know what's going on. But Diego, the tortoise over 100 years, and he sired his last child, that dude has not been taken in toxins. He's been eating a lot of polyphenols and he's been taking his testosterone up. He's at 100 years. He's at 800 babies and essentially repopulated a whole species rock on Diego. But so it kind of comes down to it's not survival of the fittest. It's survival of the healthiest. So they made sure that the Aygo had the most perfect diet. They made sure that Diego's testosterone was up not through exoticness ways, but he was just a healthy tortoise. And by being a healthy tortoise, as we age, it should not be accepted that we lower our testosterone. These t clinics popping up everywhere this idea that as we age, we should do this, we're seeing it more and more in an inflammatory state. Remember that there's this brain gut access, we talk about it all the time, the gut and the brain. When inflammation happens in the gut, inflammation happens in the brain. When the brain is inflamed. You're gonna affect your hypothalamus, pituitary gonadal axis basically your pituitary gland your hypothalamus sends hormones signals to your adrenal glands and to your testicles, gonads, to say, Hey, we need testosterone. You're a young, virile person, you're healthy, this is the time to reproduce. But when you have inflammation, cortisol tells your hypothalamic access goes, whoa, we're fighting something else. We don't need sex hormones. We need to save this individual so that he can become healthy enough to then reproduce. Problem is in Western society. We're inflamed chronically. So we've got cortisol going up. When cortisol goes up, then you have anxiety, obesity, diabetes, depression, and decreased testosterone. So in this gelding theory, a healthy microbiome can actually convert the cortisol being produced into testosterone precursors. So in other words, even if you're experiencing stress If you have a proper microbiome, that's your second line of defense, they'll take that cortisol and they'll be like, Alright, you're a little stressed out, I get it, your boss is yelling at you, yet the kids, you're on quarantine, you're worried about your job. Cortisol is through the roof. But if you're eating a healthy diet and a proper microbiome, meaning a diversified microbiome, your microbiome can convert that cortisol into testosterone precursors, and make up for the deficit. So it's a fascinating thing that if you many researchers believe that a healthy microbiome can actually and this is what you're talking about before with the whole skin thing. Many researchers believe that a healthy microbiome can actually increase pheromones and testosterone in men to make them the more ideal mate. So twofold thing you have a proper microbiome. Even if you're stressed, your microbiome will make your Skin looked good, and then put out a little vibe to the chickies that you're a hot mate. So that's how important it is. So this is what I call a hormone hack. eating a diet high in polyphenols will feed your microbiome increase the diversity. So even if you're laid off, bosses yelling at you everything chill out and go, You know what? I've got to stress. My hypothalamus is producing cortisol, but I know that I eat properly, so my microbiome will convert it to testosterone precursors, I will produce the pheromones and I will still be the sexy man that I am dad hack. The law right there.
Yeah, no, that's, that's actually really, really awesome. And it makes sense to me, especially when you're talking about disease. So the body is very, very smart in the way that it will. In medical terms, we call it shunting whereby directing blood to us specific region that needs it more than the others everything is about demand in the body. And simply put, you said disease versus pheromones and the manufacturing of testosterone. It's a day to day thing that we do is when you eat, you get a little bit tired because your body needs to use that energy energy to digest. If you were to run around on a full stomach, it would fatigue you a little bit because your body still has to hang on to this food that it doesn't have the resources because of you running around or whatever else. And finally, when you settle down, it's going to rest and digest and it's all about the shunting of blood. It's the same principle
that if you have chronic disease, you're essentially always shunting the blood away from your ability to take care of your skin to be attractive to have the the natural testosterone etc to get the results that you want. I mean, I see it all the time with my patients. They're like, I don't know what I'm doing. Suddenly I'm having, I'm gaining weight and things are going on. And then I asked about their lifestyle and I say, look, are you protecting your gut? Is there any chance that we can have intestinal permeability or leaky gut? Are you eating processed foods? Are you getting enough sleep, weight, and exercise? We're going to get into that next. But if you think about it, if you're taking the proper if you're feeding your microbiome, if you do not have control over your exogenous stress, like we talked about, in the very beginning, you have your internal aging process, exogenous aging process. If you can't walk away from the I keep saying the boss that yells at you, and that's being unfair if you can't walk away from whatever it is that stressing you out. You can at least say okay, well, I'm gonna, I can't emotionally handle this right now. So I'm going to take in the stress and I'm going to let my pituitary produce the cortisol, but I'm going to make sure I at least eat in a way that my body can handle that stress. converted, and I will still win. I'll make sure that I'm not going to have these cortisol effects diabetes, high blood pressure, obesity, anxiety, depression, you can be in control. Yeah, hack, the great hack of that. So,
no, I totally agree. I mean, those are those are just things that you have to take charge of. I mean, if you if you want more out of life, you just got to give your body the opportunity to repair itself. And that's really what we're talking about.
Yeah. So when I, when I talk to friends and patients about this, they're like, you know, I'm, um, I don't care about that. I'm gonna go to this testosterone clinic. There's like one right around the corner, I'm just gonna have pumped me full of testosterone, and I'm gonna get around that whole inflammatory cortisol thing. So I see him everywhere. We had mentioned that in the beginning, I see t clinics everywhere. And this is not exactly the complete solution and here's a reason male pattern baldness. So we talked about skin. Man, if there's something else that men are willing to spend money on, it's keeping their hair. You can always I mean, I assume because I see commercials everywhere. And I paid a lot for this hair piece. My quarantine non cut for months.
Yeah. I told I asked Marie today if I was if I was looking like I was back in the 70s because I just I'm sorry.
I this is the longest my hair has ever been in my entire life. And I just cannot get myself to cut it, because I'm having fun with it. So I just want to see if I can get it. I mean, I see guys with like long hair and rocking it, you know, especially some of those guys in baby bath where I'm like, dang,
how they do that, like how they get it past the awkward stage to like, Cool stage. And that's what I'm trying to see if I can get there.
But I'm just using the pandemic as an excuse. I don't have no idea if it's gonna look good or not, but I'm just talking about so far.
All right, so let's talk about male pattern baldness though I've got a lot of friends that have baldness got a lot of friends that you know, have worried about it. And some guys say spirit, they just shave their head and they look just great. Not it's, if it's something that you're worried about, the thing that people don't realize is when you go on testosterone therapy, and you just say, Well, I'm going to augment with testosterone. Well, the problem is testosterone has its own issues. What happens is, is that this gets broken down into a hormone called dihydrotestosterone, known as DHT. DHT causes the regression of hair follicles. So when people take this so you'll find that bodybuilders are perfectly cool with this. they fully understand that when they're taking high dose testosterone for shows and stuff and they cycle on and off. It's just part of the game. They're all bald look on stage like the massive dudes, and I've talked about it builders, like dads just kind of accepted that. That's what's gonna happen when you're doing this this kind of level of steroids. So I found a very fascinating study in 2016. It was on mice that showed and I don't think David Roberts noses the CEO of broccoli that showed that sulfur fame stopped this process by increasing the enzymes that break down dihydrotestosterone and the mice that were given sulfur Fein it significantly enhanced Hair Regeneration in these mice. So the thought that sulforaphane accelerates the degradation of dihydrotestosterone. In other words, what it does is it increases the enzymes in the liver, that breaks it down, much like in our Endocannabinoid webinar, if f h breaks down an atomizer and polyphenols block that so for fame blocks, or actually does the opposite rises, the enzyme that breaks it down. So a fascinating study that I've never come across because I was trying to think about How can we help dads that are balding? Well, this is one way sulforaphane actually prevents DHT from being produced DHT has been shown to cause this follicular regression, which means that you won't grow the hair. I've never come across this before, I was fascinating. One of the things I love about doing this podcast is we have to research for it. And we learn. This is something I've never seen before. I love it.
I think it's incredible. I think that a lot of people would love to find out what they could do naturally. Just offset and who knows, I mean, if you happen to be a bodybuilder and it could be worth a shot, if you just want to see if you could hang on to here, I don't really know that's a no one's ever accused me of trying to stack on a lot of the muscle weight.
But at the very least, if you have a mice, if you have a mouse, I shouldn't say if you have a mice, if you have a mouse that is concerned about their hair loss, give them a little sulfur fan. We've got studies to show it works in mice. Great. So we're assuming that it may work in humans as well. But that's kind of a cool little hack that I came across because we're going to get into reasons why you should be on sulforaphane anyways. But that's fascinating to me because male pattern baldness is something that really affects a lot of people. And it's something that may actually slow the process down so inflammation and male pattern baldness
now I think it's awesome that's a it's a very very unique find and but it to me with with Sophia things if you're a dad, that's only the tip of the iceberg would be the superficial part of the hair and I know that you're going to get into it here in a moment but rock elite combined with without trying to and CBD I think has got a really, really special interlocking key here that I think any dads who want to remain involved for a long amount of time will be interested. Oh, and if you happen to be sharing this with your dad, this is something because you care about them. If you're watching and you have a dad or your husband's dad, your brother's a dad you want them to have a story. information. Obviously, this applies to both sexes, by the way, just Father's Day special, but this is great information. We're just humans in general on what you can do to protect your health. So why don't you take that part away?
Yeah, so this is this is all stuff we're talking about just biohacking on Father's Day biohacking for your dad, helping them and we just chose different aspects that we can get into cardiovascular disease, hypertension, blah, blah, blah. we're choosing things that I think that dads can relate to, which is, you know, we're talking about going bald, we're, you know, we're talking about skin we're talking about things like that. Another thing and one of the I'm gonna quiz you what is the second greatest life hack next to sleep?
Wow, the second greatest life hack next is sleep. In we've not rehearsed this. No, we have no
I do this a lot, too.
I know and I feel like I'm going to fail this one, but that's okay. If I were to be getting enough sleep this, the next one would probably be something that would eat either decrease anxiety or to decrease inflammation and I don't know the answer.
Yes. So what can you do to do both? That's you have control of, but it's not sleep that will do that for sure.
And you can obviously daily supplement with a CBD.
Well, okay with supplement. All right, it's exercise. The second greatest thing you can do for your body every single day is exercise. All right? That's right. You're, you're you're too smart. You're going into it. You're just like, I'm gonna think about the DNA methylation. I'm gonna talk about mF RT t dub. Okay. Now it's just exercise. So exercise I consider as the is the second greatest life hack next to sleep. And I say that because I was somebody that would sacrifice sleep for years. To make sure that I got to CrossFit at 5am. And I realized that probably the most important thing I could do was actually sleep in and find the time to exercise when when I did that. So, sleep, I'm going to say Trump's exercise, if we're going to talk about a poker hand, whatever it is, it's four aces versus four kings. They're both super important, but get your sleep. But exercise is the second greatest life hack. It helps with mood, inflammation, just like you said, circulation, bone strength, the list goes on and on. And ultimately, both our goals are to remain strong and healthy enough that we want to roughhouse with our great grandkids, not just our grandkids, we want to be able to have fun with this. We want our kids to feel totally confident that say, you know, grandpa and grandma or you leave our kids, we're gonna go and we're gonna have fun with them and you're gonna be able to do stuff. That's the key. So the key to stay mobile to Cheetah stay healthy, not just brain health, not just looking pretty on the Outside, not just having a robust hormonal system, we want to make sure that you can exercise and we can improve the exercise because as we exercise, there's something called hormesis. So what ends up happening is that hormesis is the process of stressing your body and your body's ability to recover from the stress. And as we age, this ability becomes harder and harder. Everybody says that, oh, you know, after I turned 50, it was harder and harder. Now we can we can hack this exercise causes reactive oxygen species reactive nitrogen species, and micro trauma. So there's some easy hacks now. I'm gonna throw this in your wheelhouse. I'm gonna run and take a quick bathroom break. You're going to talk about how how polyphenols help with exercise balls in your court. I'll be right back.
That is interesting. So there goes can how polyphenols can help though with exercise is that Number one, it's all natural. Number two polyphenols have been demonstrated, especially by Joe Votel, who did tons of research out of Exeter University over in the UK, that they actually assist the body to naturally produce nitric oxide. nitric oxide will naturally dilate our vessels, allowing for more blood flow to the tissues, which does several things and while deliver more oxygen or nutrients, second, it actually will carry away the lactic acid that is naturally formed from exercise I'm sorry, metabolism of the the muscle cells. So by doing that, a few things happen. That's that's the micro level. A few things happen on a grander scale one, you get better performance, you better performance in a measurable objective vo to max. Number two, your recovery time actually decreases. It's not that you don't end up Stressing these muscles or that you would never have to relax and take time off. But if you happen to suffer from an injury or you overstretch a little bit, or you really press hard and an activity, the time to recover has been demonstrated time and time again with high levels of polyphenols taken that it decreases. So something that's kind of difficult to figure out whenever you're talking about natural hacks is, what's the volume, how much do I have to take to get this result. The great thing about Joe Votel and the research that she's done, she's been able to show that at least 1000 milligrams or one full gram of pro into cyanogen. polyphenols, which is exactly what ultra and teal is, per day, can deliver those results, especially when taken consistently, three days before the day of in three days after a hike Event now if you play football and you play on on a Friday, you're three days before and then the day of, and then three days after, guess what? It's a full week. So essentially what she's outlining through science is that one gram of polyphenols daily minimum, lead to better athletic performance, better recovery time, objective increase in vo to max and overall better status of the athlete So anyhow, and kids back to the bathroom,
so they get out. So quick little thing about the bathroom break right there. That's not because of prosthetic prostatic hypertrophy because I take broccoli, which actually helps the prostate health. That sounds bad I had to pee. I've been holding it for like a long time. So that's an awesome I was listening to the bathrooms right over here. So I listened everything you said totally agree with everything that you just said right there. That's awesome. The athlete. I do want to say one other thing about Exercise. You need to improve your endocannabinoid system. There was an article that was just published in the molecular aspects of medicine and it looked at the endocannabinoid system and exercise related to pain and the path to health and slow aging. The actual title was that it was ECS exercise pain and path to health and slow aging. They looked at the circulating endocannabinoids. during exercise, they found those people with a higher functioning endocannabinoid system that had higher endogenous endocannabinoids had less joint pain, less perception of exercise induced pain while they were doing it, and they had an overall better mood. So improving your endocannabinoid system. If you don't know what that is, we got a webinar on it. I guess we'll put some sort of link to it at some point can help maintain your exercise regimen. So polyphenols and improving your understanding Benoit system will allow you to continue to exercise and workout and don't let age be an excuse. I'm at this age and this is where it's at. Because we're trying to help you hack through this and you're going to be the greatest dad ever. And if you want your dad to be great, just make sure that you show them this podcast. So we talked about skin. We talked about baldness, we talked about hormones, we talked about exercise. Oh, the most important thing that I care about the brain. That's what we want to talk about and end this podcast with the brain. Protect your dad's brain if you're a dad, protect your own brain. Alzheimer's and dementia is at epidemic proportions.
Our mission at KB MD health and it KBS is to help people age well, but also access all those millions of memories that make up your lifetime. When it's all said and done. It's not the crap that we have. It's the memories that we have. You and I have talked about this, I prefer to spend my money on buying a memory, as opposed to buying an object. That's just my personal preference. I've talked to many psychologists who say those people that do that tend to lead happier lives. If you are trying to fulfill your life by buying objective things to say, I like this, I want you to take a step back and go instead of spending the money on this. I want to take my family on a trip. And then I want to talk about that trip a year later, five years later, 10 years later, when I'm playing with my great grandkids, I want to be able to tell the story about how I took my mother which I posted, Sandy, her own deck 78 years old when she calls my family. All she loves to do is say, oh, let me tell you about the time that we took your father to this. And it's a wonderful thing because now my kids are old enough to ask ask the questions. How old was he? Oh, he was in fourth grade. Oh my gosh. And now they're older than I was then. And it's just great. In my opinion, the most important thing and the greatest thing that we can do for everybody is to allow dads to protect their brains because if you protect your brain, there's a common theme. And that is the memories represent who you are. And one thing that I am learning one thing that we are starting to see is that gut inflammation leads to brain inflammation. Dementia is a result of chronic inflammation. It's a preventable thing. We know that polyphenols help heal your gut, but studies have shown that polyphenols can exert their anti aging effects on the brain through already discussed antioxidant, anti reactive things, a reactive species blockade and different things like that. But polyphenols also allow your microbiome to produce Something called post biotics, post biotics, post biotics, post biotics, you heard me, right? Post biotics. This is the thing that everybody's gonna be talking about in the future. These are molecules produced by our microbiome that have beneficial effects on our bodies. For instance, polyphenols can increase a short chain fatty acid called butyrate butyrate travels from your gut, where your my your microbiome breaks down these polyphenols produces butyrate butyrate travels all the way to your brain, and it increases something really cool called BDNF, otherwise known as brain derived neurotrophic factor. Brain derived neurotrophic factor is one of the only things that allows your brain to grow nerve cells. When I went to med school, we were taught that your brain cannot regenerate. Now we know that if you have Enough BDNF, your brain can regenerate. So if you have trauma, if you have a stroke, if you have age related dementia, we can start to regrow that. That's the key. But the path of this whole process shows that these polyphenols don't just do it through BDNF. They do it through different modulation cascades, and this gets super sciency. But basically, the polyphenols will affect a cascade, meaning a process called the sirtuin pathway. This is a pathway that controls the aging process. And the NRF two pathway. You're nodding because you've heard NRF two before so if you're dozing off going on and what what are these guys talking about now, sir? Two and NRF? Two I know it's weird names. Bottom line is it. We now know the science It creates an anti aging aspect in your brain. And then this NRF two pathway is pretty frickin cool because speaking of NRF, two, this deserves its own podcast in its own right. But in a nutshell NRF two pathway is a regulatory pathway of potent anti inflammatory and anti cancer. It is a potent immune modulator. So, the most potent NRF two pathway controller is not polyphenols, but it's through getting sulforaphane. So you can see the overlap here, this whole biohack data episode. makes total sense. Now when we're talking about we only have three products and there's one reason there's a reason why there's three products.
The three products that I take my family takes my staff takes because I know the science behind it, you take it your family takes it, everyone that you're around, I know the science behind it. The one thing that I want to Make sure that I protect, I want to make sure I live long enough. But I want to make sure I protect my brain. I want to look good doing it. But that's secondary to this because I felt like the best shape I've ever been in. I was sacrificing other aspects because you're not, you're eating to look good as opposed to eating. So there's been times where I've been bigger and more muscular, leaner, whatever. I'm feeling pretty good right now. I'm feeling happy. I've got my kids, I can do anything that I want to do with them. And I'm pretty. I'm going to keep tuning in. I'm going to keep biohacking this. So, so first thing in the brain, an article published in 2018 showed that as we accumulate I'm sorry, so I was digressing a quick second, this is actually the whole brain health is where all three come together. So for a feign is what is in broccoli, and we know that sulforaphane modulates the NRF two pathway which is a potent anti inflammatory, anti cancer and help with BDNF. We know that polyphenols are a potent anti inflammatory pathway and will help modulate BDNF. As I'm going through this, I found this great study in 2018 that showed that in people with dementia as we age, we accumulate iron in our brains. And this study looked at mice where they had iron induced dementia. So they gave extra iron. I say this because every dad that's on testosterone right now, one of the side effects is iron accumulation. You'll notice that when people take exogenous testosterone, I said that one of the side effects could be DHT male pattern baldness, if you take testosterone, you're going to you're going to absorb more iron. And this can result in brain dementia later on in life if there's too much iron a few minutes here. So they took this group of mice and they gave one group cannabidiol CBD And the other group they didn't. And then they were able to reverse the negative effects of the iron in these mice. so fascinating. So the theory is that CBD has neuroprotective effects by function to stop cell death caused by iron. It blocked the a pop ptosis caused by iron. So in my world, protect your dad. make him look good through the scan. Make sure that his hormones are good. Make sure that he's exercising appropriately. Make sure what were all the organ systems that we cover are missing one make sure his brains good, but that's the last one. That's the most important one.
You said scan.
Stem hormone.
Rain gut brain gut.
male pattern baldness.
Oh yes. Yes, sorry.
And that's that's a little bit more of a vain one because the other ones are so important. So you know what this podcast is about having a science backed dad hacks we're gonna call the science back dad hacks for anti aging and multiple ordinances skin baldness, testosterone exercise improvement and the most important one, in my opinion is brain health. Who I read a lot to get through that,
man that's a solid put together though and truly if you do care about longevity, this is an incredible combination to be used along with a normal regimen of good sleep, as well as exercise daily. And if you can just do that, and make certain that the foods that you select every day are, for the most part, healthy following something similar to a Mediterranean diet. I feel like and speaking from experience, you'll find lots of stability in your health, which just allows you to decrease anxiety and just focus on the things that you find most enjoyable in life and It we've all had those pitfalls where you find yourself getting into not the healthiest selections for foods, etc. But it's never too late to turn it around. And if you're going to get a little bit of help,
yeah, that's, that's key. If you're gonna do that once in a while, then you're gonna have to supplement you're gonna have to help yourself a little bit, you know, make sure that you can, if you want to cheat a little bit, if I'm gonna cheat with gluten, I'm gonna have a little tool on hand at all times.
So no doubt and and another thing, just just the idea of not wanting it. Why does it Why do people fear getting old? It isn't just because it's o LD, it's not just because of that word. It's because you don't want to be debilitated. You don't want it who wants to get older and not be able to do as you described roughhouse with the grandkids, not be able to go and enjoy a vacation not be able to remember going on vacation. This, what we're talking about. It is Isn't it isn't some kind of a crazy scenario? What we're talking about are discoveries. It's science on how can we help you through the research that we've dug very deep into? How can we help you achieve a better aging process where you're healthspan matches your lifespan.
And, you know, I mean, we've we've worked, we've walked in these circles, we've walked in circles with Ben Greenfield and Dave Asprey and you know, we kind of run in similar groups and there's 1000 things that they're doing. I like to really pare it down to just very a minimalistic approach. I'm just want to make sure that my brains healthy, I want to make sure that I can exercise and ideally I would like to make sure that my internal process is healthy enough that it shows on the outside. So those are the so that's why we're calling this the big special. The dad biohack combo because to recap it Polish Females like our Tron to have been shown to be anti aging. They improve exercise they improve brain health. CBD like the KVM D health CBD has been shown to help with exercise and brain health also. And sulfur fame like broccoli has been shown to help with male pattern baldness, brain health as a potent anti inflammatory anti cancer agent. So if you're going to do, you can try everything you can an eye tech while you're laughing because you're like, Well, yeah, you do those things, but you also will try anything else. I listen to a Ben Greenfield podcast yesterday about breathing and I've been trying to hold my breath for seven minutes, I get to two and I just pass out. I'm like, how are they doing seven minutes?
Yeah, you know, just for the listeners. I gotta tell you yesterday, we're working together and he asked me if I'd heard of what, what was the was there a title? Or did you just tell me how it was done?
Because Well, there's the Wim Hof breathing method. He like breathe people out and then walk them up Mount Kilimanjaro in their underwear. Yeah, no, and they don't get cold with a jump and ice water and stuff. That's one method. I just don't know enough about. I'm just, I mean, next time I see Ben, I'm gonna pin them down and say, all right, tell me how to do some of this breathing type stuff. And then, like, I'm getting into like, oh, man, I just talked to somebody about earthing and grounding yourself. And so now I'm a bit I don't wanna get off track of this, but we're gonna go through all of this for you. So there's, you know, these great biohackers. Like, like Dave, I mean, they're awesome. I like to get their science and then I like to dig a little deeper and try it on myself and go Well, yeah, let
me just let me just say for the audience, you have no idea how many things have not even come close to being mentioned here that he's trying, because they don't work. As the coolest thing about the guy that you see on the screen opposite is that he he has as long as I've known him Puts whatever it is to the test through the research and if it doesn't measure up and does it produce reproducible results? It's it's not,
it's not worth it. The one thing is, is that we've got Angie Koch on our side, our researcher who she's coming definitely great ideas. And we've got this Mandalay account where we looked at the we looked at the journal so I'm a hacker, but I'm a hacker based on science. And I think that these other guys are also they're super smart. And you're kind of a hacker. My, what I love is that my wife can't stand when these Amazon packages start showing up and whatever. And then she thinks I'm crazy. And the next thing I know, through diffusion, and osmosis, suddenly, the whole family's doing all of it. And I'm just like, yeah, I didn't get an argument. You just kind of did it on your own after you did your own homework. And that's kind of how it is so, but this is our dad's special Father's Day Special shout out to every dad that's out there. Remember the corvids study That it's the one genus of birds, that they spend more time with their kids and they consistently have bigger brains and they learn more and teaching your dad a stupid thing. I'm like I'm not much of a handyman I talked to you about this. I'm realizing that I'm choosing to do a little bit more change the battery instead of having the car towed or whatever, like stupid stuff like that Ramos like, yeah, Lucas, let's just change the battery. I've never done it. Let's go. And let's just do it. So that kind of thing. So
now, and that's those are the great experiences that that you end up having, and they'll they'll turn into good memories, especially the fact that you had to YouTube how to do all that stuff to make it happen. And that's, that's the manual of the modern man right now to YouTube and figure out how to take something apart. Sure.
I know, my poor dad, when I'd asked him questions, and it was just like a long pause. It's like ask your mother. Now, it's like hey, Google. What's this?
Well ladies and gentlemen of KB MD health, please head to KB Md health.com. Go down to the store first four items are all on sale for the Father's Day biohack special. It includes the signature package, but it also includes the bio hack package. They are both significantly discounted. This sale I believe last all the way through July the fourth Independence Day course.
Now you and I argued about that because this is a we're essentially this is a wash for us. So we're doing this for dads, so take advantage of it. Take advantage of it while I'm emotional. While we're talking about how we miss our dads and how much we like being dads. We're being emotional, and we're not true businessmen, we're emotional. People in health care. We just want to help people and we just want to see people get better.
Was it a big shout out my dad his birthday this year would have been the same day as Father's Day which is the first day of summer and he would have been 70 I miss him dearly, but you know, US approaching it like this, this is what he wants me to do for my kids, because he would have wanted to have been able to have done it for himself. So treat yourself Take care of yourself, visit us a KB and D health calm. We're just sharing the science. Yeah, if you help.
It's funny that you said that because I have a lot of patients that will COVID has brought up a lot of stress to patients before COVID. And what something really interesting, they've been forced to stay home when normally they spend a lot of time on the road. And they're realizing they would really like to stay home more and a lot of things are out of their control and stuff. Well the one thing that you can make sure that you do for your kids is take care of your health. Definitely so just because you can't be home, you can FaceTime with them and say what are you gonna do? I'm out for a walk. I'm sitting here. I'm not attached. I'm on a business trip. I'm out for a walk. I'm doing this for you. I'm getting my BDNF up because of exercise. I'm gonna take some broccoli, take some I'll try to do a little CBD. Protect my brain. How are you doing, kiddo? What's going on? Tell me about this. Put your sister on the phone. Let's talk about this what's happening in school? that those are the memories that I want to protect for everyone. Not what did it feel like to get in your Ferrari and drive around, that's just not my thing. Because it's the memories in the end that are worth the gold. So
just to wrap up, don't forget, you can always go to love matambi calm and of course if you haven't visited unrefined bakery, you need to go there. So unrefined. baker.com use code, gut check, and I hope that you all have a fantastic Father's Day with your father, your father with your kiddos. With your grandfather's with the great grandfather's. Enjoy the weekend. The summer is upon us. Take care Have yourself still, you know, avoid, avoid too much crowding right now.
Yeah. And so let's say this also, if we are still in the COVID epidemic, we're having some of the highest cases right now our state opened up. If you feel like you may have been exposed and you have a grandparent that you want to reach out to your obligation is to reach out to them in a social way, like FaceTime, zoom, anything, but you may be a carrier and you need to protect your grandparents, who may be at risk, most of it, for sure. And loneliness is just as dangerous as smoking. Reach out to a dad, an old college roommate, a friend, anybody now's the time where there's, there's no barriers. We can just sit there and say, Hey, I haven't heard from you in 35 years. This is the weirdest time we've ever had in our lives. Just thought about you and just want to see what's going on. There's a way to reconnect with no social stigma, do it and protect your grandparents. If you feel like you may have been exposed say, hey, Grandma, I want to come over, let's have dinner together on zoom. But my friend's parents, apparently one of them was just diagnosed with COVID. So um, for the next two weeks, I'm going to chill. And then I'll come back over and start eating with you and stuff like that.
Oh, I think that's sound advice. I really do. But that is the 2020 Father's Day biohack special. Thank you all for joining us here on the gut check project, we get to say gut check project again. And actually, this is the first gut Git project episode ever on zoom. Just so you know. Oh, that's right. Yeah,
I know. And we were talking about doing the whole in the studio thing again, and we just can't you know, morally, we just can't do it. There's too many cases going around and we have to lead by example. So
Yeah, we're getting back to we're getting back to a guest schedule coming up. So we certainly appreciate all the support the ton of email. So anyway, everyone have a great Father's Day. Thank you all very much. That's Episode 36. We will see y'all next time. Happy Father's Day. Happy Father's Day.
Welcome, everyone. It is now time for COVID Episode 6.0. We have an incredible special guest this time, of course, I'm Eric Rieger with your host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. But today, we have Aubrey Levitt. She is the CEO of Postbiotics Plus. She's very much into research and an incredible entrepreneur certainly knows a lot of the people in the scientific community that have inspired Ken and I to dig deeper to look further. Without further ado, Ken would you like to say hello to Aubrey, and we'll get started.
So you can imagine my excitement when I found somebody that was discussing postbiotics also. So Aubrey, thank you so much for coming in. Eric, do we have any...we need to shout out to our sponsors real quick?
No, we don't have to do that. We just did that. You're all you're all here.
So Aubrey Levitt. Oh my goodness. This is so cool. I felt like I was alone on an island discussing post biotics and then I have this little routine. I'm a very routine type person. I like to work out and go to the sauna. And I do a little mindfulness meditation. And then I just kind of scroll for the last little 10 minutes on podcasts and I just typed in postbiotics and I couldn't believe it. The CEO of postbiotics plus I'm like, not only does she know about it, she's an entrepreneur. She's smart. And she's got like, and then I went to your website, I'm like, she's got like six PhDs working for her like, holy cow, we have got to track this woman down. So I apologize that I stalked you. But thank you so much for coming on the show.
No I was so happy about that. It's so nice to have somebody else on this island with me. Yeah, we put our stake in the ground like postbiotics and then echoes for a couple years, just looking back but no, it's very...
So we're calling this COVID episode 6.0 because although we're gonna talk about the microbiome I want to let you in on something that you're doing. So congratulations to you and your desire to go through science first, hire these PhDs make something effective because you're going to change the world like I believe that we're helping to change the world. A article just came out this month, discussing the gut, the actual title is this gut microbiota and COVID-19 possible link and implications. And then another one just came out that said a comprehensive review on the effect of plant metabolites on Coronavirus. Plant metabolites means postbiotics and then somebody that we will get you in contact with is a PhD that we're working with her name is Silvia Molino, she did it to get her PhD. Her postdoctoral study is so cool. She actually looked at invitro digestion and fermentation of stable polyphenols. So she was able to do an in and of course, invitro means in a lab. So she was able to show the postbiotic effect once through digestion and then once the microbiome comes in contact with it. Absolutely brilliant and so cool. So COVID you're making a difference!
Yeah. All across the board. No, yeah, I just want to say that one of the things that started this fascination for me was you just look at fermented foods, right, which are full of postbiotics and how much of a role they have played in every culture. And we may not have known why in the past, but when we're looking through the lens of the microbiome, we can see maybe a deeper into what's happening here. You know, I know people know probiotics and they know prebiotics of fiber. But when the probiotics eat the prebiotics, then this magic happens. And that's what's also happening in your gut, right if you have all those elements working.
Yeah, totally.
And I think why and what I've seen also why it directly relates to COVID is, you know, people are getting are at risk for secondary infections. And also people are getting antibiotics and whatnot. And that directly destroys the microbiome as we know, which leaves them vulnerable to being populated by whatever's there. And, and weakens them.
If I'm knowing that kind of research and listening to the PhDs while y'all are constructing the studies, and or the clinical trials to find out what is actually going to work. What are some of the endpoint measures that you that some of your PhDs are examining? Is it because they're looking for what the bacteria will do with the things that you present like postbiotics, as you mentioned before, and how do you measure that, is it like short chain fatty acid stuff or what...
We were looking specifically at one thing and just diversity overall, so we were looking at a point of injury. So the one because we wanted to kind of pare it down to. Okay, we know, we're researching the microbiome, and we're looking all these various things, but it's a complex ecosystem, right. And the one thing we do know is that when there is a lot of diversity that always correlates with health. And so we really pared it back to that of okay, but in our modern lifestyle, we have many, many things that affect that diversity and really, you know, strip it. So we looked at antibiotics first in our first study to say antibiotics is one of the harshest things that wipe out gut diversity and leave us susceptible in this window afterwards to either an opportunistic, you know, pathogen taking over or maybe just not recovering to the diversity that we had before. And so we did a study our initial study was to look at these antibiotics because think about it, also, people are coming in for maybe a sinusitis. So having their gut wiped out is a, you know, side effect that is not intended. It's a consequence that's not intended. So we gave them a fermented herbal product, which is full of postbiotics, because essentially, we put probiotic bacteria with the herbal components and it's breaking them down with we gave them that with some live probiotics as well. And we had a control group and we we took their stool samples to see if we are protecting their diversity. So right when they got the treatment, and then you know, all throughout the treatment and 10 days after, and we saw Yeah, so the endpoint was gut diversity is looking to see if the ecosystem was intact.
I couldn't agree more and Brown we've talked about this in the past. And of course, we've seen this in the hospital. Oftentimes when people are given really powerful antibiotics and they come to the hospital. Unfortunately, the end result is often c diff, and it's exactly what it does. It goes through it wipes out all of the bacteria we and it tears down all c diff is all that's left in incredible diarrhea which persists forever so that you're certainly speaking
I think that bringing up c diff is probably the most extreme version of lack of diversity because you wipe out everything but one particular bacteria that then populates so it's almost like having a neighborhood where only one family dominates and they decide what happens well c-diff kills people. It's very serious. I'm a huge as a, as a gastroenterologist, I reluctantly ever try to put anybody on antibiotics and I see So my research was in bacterial overgrowth SIBO, which is, which is a consequence of antibiotics all the time. My classic patient would be somebody that said, I got a sinusitis just like you said, five years ago, took this big round of antibiotics and I've never been right since. And that's that's the patient comes to me as a gastroenterologist.
Yeah. And I was that patient because when I was a kid, I had antibiotics probably every week for years and then I had to go in and have two weeks straight of antibiotics, because I punctured a lung. And so they put you on IV antibiotics. And you know, ever since then it was just sort of this imbalance that couldn't get. I couldn't figure out how to right. And I didn't even know because that was sort of so early on. It was just this uphill battle that I wasn't aware of. So that was one of the things behind of like, you know, I could do everything perfect, but the moment too much stress would come on or whatever else would happen, I would fall back on my resiliency wasn't there, the normal resiliency that you would think you would have.
So I could talk postbiotics all day, but now you just got me super intrigued about Aubrey Levitt. And how I built this, how does a woman this powerhouse CEO doing this? You just said you essentially had a very traumatic childhood, what was going on?
Well, you know, it's a bit of a layered story, but it was I think it started also with this more, you know, trauma when I was a baby of someone had broken in and I actually had a memory of it, which is even weirder, you know, with a gun, but it put me on this hyper vigilant, very stressful response for years after where I was watching the window and the door couldn't sleep. And you know, this leads to an increase in illness where I was having strep throat probably every week. And I'm only putting these pieces together now actually looking backwards retrospectively, but you have these series of illnesses that which lead to pneumonia and then lead to puncturing a lung. And this is all pre second grade, you know, that happened in second grade. So you're on, you know, just a massive amounts of medication, and not compared to maybe some to what some other kids are having, but it was a lot for me at the time.
I mean, I would argue that getting antibiotics that often could be one of the most traumatic things that somebody could do because you will never be able to rebuild this microbiome.
Yeah, it becomes and then you only realize later how much it's really affecting you. It throws off your hormones, it throws off your immune system throws off, you know, all sorts of things that were just out of whack with without a real explanation. You know, you'd go to see these various doctors and they couldn't pinpoint what was the root cause.
Wow, how are your parents through this whole process?
You know, I don't think anybody thought anything of it at the time, right? They were actually very healthy and very conscious of all these things and did their best. But, you know, what are you going to do when your kid has 104 fever every other week? Right? I mean, you just don't really have a choice.
Yeah. Wow.
And that is wild. So I would, I would even couple that did on top of that. On top of the biodiversity that's being eliminated through long term antibiotics, you've also got, I mean, the stress of anxiety, which is obviously something that you're referencing, if you're staring at a door or window as a young kiddo, and it persists for days. I mean, the time to repair is constantly being thwarted by your body's vigilant state of trying to always be in fight or flight, there is no repair time. That's pretty wild.
Yeah, and I don't think people realize how much stress wears on their, their immune system and their body and just like you're saying, it doesn't give you that rest and digest time to recover, which is very essential, you know, to bounce back. So. And I think also that got me very interested in like the gut brain response and how that vagus nerve talks between the two because you're just always reacting. Right?
Okay, so we're both smiling because this is just right up Ken's ally. This is exactly what
I just think it's hilarious. This is the first time that we've actually talked. And you're literally mimicking everything that we say. We are a kindred spirit here. We've been on the same island...studying the same stuff.
Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, even when we when I created this first product, I think one of the issues that I was finding is that okay, I would take these herbal remedies, I would, you know, eat these great foods, but I still wasn't able to digest them properly or really utilize them properly. And because I wasn't seeing the results I wanted and when I fermented these herbs, what what was very interesting is I actually even felt a focus and a mood difference right away, which is how I got into this post biotic work because I thought, wow, they're like, I think there's GABA or something in here that is different than what was in here when you started with the original product.
So you felt it almost immediately.
Yeah, I did, I did. And I felt the difference. And so then I went and tested and that there was GABA in it. And also too, if I was actually feeling that and because it was a small amount, I mean and I can't be sure that's just a assumption on my part, but that got me really interested. I started talking to these guys out of corp, you know, Ted Dinin, and they were studying this essentially how the gut communicates to the brain through the signaling molecules and these neurotransmitters that are released through this fermentation process, even if it's in your gut. And so I just went down this rabbit hole and ended up partnering with the scientists out of Memorial Sloan Kettering. Now he's at NYU, who, who was also interested in the same thing of these metabolites. And not only they also signal to the other bacteria in your gut, so there's just this constant communication going on between everything. Not not to get too in the weeds,
No, totally because this perfect, this is the conversation I have with my patients all the time, is when pharmaceutical companies and I'm not putting them on blast, but when pharmaceutical companies try and do something they tend to focus on on a molecule that they can patent. And what we're learning is that the microbiome is way too complex, where we're at right now with our, with our research, so you can do these giant stool studies. And so I get all these people that come from functional medicine doctors with these, these gi DNA analysis, and they're like, Yeah, do something like that we can do the test, you don't really know how to manipulate 100 trillion bacteria.
Exactly.
And so what I tell everybody is, we do know that if you can diversify, they will figure it out. Meaning they when you have a proper diversification, a proper signaling mechanism where they will keep control of each other, and they send signals to your brain, we now know Eric and I did a whole episode just on the negative effects of short chain fatty acids, when they're out of proportion, meaning butyrate being real good. But yeah, if you have too much acetate, if you have too much propionic acid out of proportion, that crosses the blood brain barrier and creates that that gut brain situation. So it's all about just let your body let those microbiome, figure it out. We're not going to out think them.
Yeah. And that's, that's also something that really excites me about this whole field is the ecosystem approach, I think is really an opportunity to look at medicine differently than how we've been looking in the at in the past, like this lock and key approach is doesn't work as you're saying. It's sort of the it's very complex, it requires more systems medicine approach of looking at how, if you touch this point, it affects this whole area around it. And I think it's also to me, the one area that's speaking to all different fields, you know, it's speaking to Western medicine, allopathic medicine, speaking to functional medicine, and it's kind of everybody because we don't know exactly what's happening here. But we all agree, it's important, and we all agree it matters. And that that hasn't really happened before. I mean, you guys are the you're the doctor, so maybe you could speak to that more but that's, that's what I see happening. And it's also saying we can't outsmart it. We have to work with it.
Yeah. And that's where the whole, that's where I got really interested in the whole postbiotic thing because that's when I started doing. We started realizing that when, when you start decreasing the inflammatory response in the body by eating a different type of diet, I start asking why. And then that's when I started meeting scientists that said, Oh, it's because you're producing, urolithin or you're producing, you know, now a GABA. I didn't realize the GABA. So that's what's so fascinating. So I'm a doctor. And I imagine you've got what six or seven PhDs that you're in this postbiotic thing. What is how did you end up you were sick and then then you sort of jump forward and said, then I started this company. How did we get from there to here?
Yeah, God, it's been a windy road. So I you know, I was a, how do I say this? So i i got obsessed with the science part because I always do have to measure and kind of look at...okay, starting with an idea of something that I may feel in myself or that matters to me, but I wanted to look at, okay, how can we measure this in a larger population? Like, it's not enough for me to I didn't want to go out there and just create a product and see what happens? And I guess Okay, so one step back, I do have a background in pharmaceutical advertising and marketing or whatnot. And so it started there. And I was working those jobs and I thought, okay, I, this is not what I'm going to look back 40 years from now and be happy with what I created. I wanted to go out there and solve a problem. And then once you create that solution, then I have to go back and measure and make sure it works. So that's what led me down the science path. And it just it wasn't necessarily the intention of starting a company. It was always coming from solving a problem and wanting to find the answer that didn't already exist. And if you're looking for an answer that doesn't already exist, then you have to test that answer multiple times before you go out there and offer it to somebody else. So, that's sort of the windy road there, I guess.
Well, I'll tell you what that is, is that's you've when we you've said several times, allopathic and naturopathic boy, if there's ever anybody who I would not believe would somebody with a marketing background in pharmaceuticals that came up with a novel idea, usually its market first we'll worry about the science later. We're going to make cash on this thing.
I've gotten a lot of flack for that.
No, not flack at all. I'm giving you so much props you lead with science first. I mean, that is amazing. Especially because you come from a marketing background, holy cow.
But to me the best marketing is truth and honesty. Right? And that speaks for itself. And so I was not interested in this...okay, you have this end product and you put a shiny package on it, and you hand it over somebody it's like how many of the layers can peel away so that you really have a clear understanding of where something starts and what the thought process is behind it and you and you just communicate that clearly at the end of it. And that's that's where I think things are going even on a marketing standpoint, but he you're just telling a clear story of why you did it and then what it is and why it works.
I could not agree more I think the most stable marketing is knowing that your story is true, can be proven, can be reproducible. Generally, those who just flash in the pan the the charlatans are always revealed over time and then it's just it's just a trend or a fad that fades away but what you're doing is very much in line with what what drew me to work with Ken it's this is what I believe we'll figure out how to tell people about it later, but this is what's working and that made a lot of sense to me.
And and even if it does, if it works the other way, do you is that something you really want to be a part of or like is that like I would lose interest over time. So doing it for me more than anything. And then I had to turn around and be like, okay, now how do I find a business story around that that other people get behind? Because I want to do the science for me, because that's what I need to move forward. So it really came from that place, read more than anything else. And to say, Okay, how do I get scientists that are smarter than me that are gonna think they're gonna challenge me? And then we're going to do the research around it and find some answers.
There's so much similarity here. You being a CEO now, I had no business background, and now I'm in the throes of essentially, you know, I mean, it's a five year startup and I realized that Apple was a 20 year startup and
Right, exactly
20 year startup and all this other stuff. So you you get that that side of it. I was super impressed with your team. I mean, you are just filled with PhDs and a couple MDs.
Yeah, yeah, we got really lucky of and at this point, everybody's kind of donating their time. Like they've got on board out of passion. And that's what I think is even more exciting is that they believed in the process and we just kind of found scientists that were really obsessed with what they call this ecosystem science and looking at how these interactions happen in the microbiome. And
I love the idea of ecosystem science that encompasses so much and it actually flies in the face of what Ken and I both kind of find challenging with, unfortunately, the pharmaceutical world which is just trying to find that one little bitty active molecule to try to solve all of the issues with that because it doesn't generally work that way. That being said, what are the goals with the company and utilizing ecosystem science? Where do y'all want to go? What what is what are some some pinnacle finish lines for y'all?
Yeah, I mean, what's so there's two things that we have really exciting on the horizon and one we we are working now. We just talked to a doctor at Memorial Sloan Kettering and what the research they've done at Memorial Sloan Kettering is a cancer hospital. And they really looked at how diversity affects cancer patients. And that's been something that was, you know, a long term almost impossible thing for me and and the fact that we're actually pursuing being able to do that is exciting. And what they found is that so they did some FMT studies there. And they really found that if a patient comes in and they have higher diversity, then you know, when they go through their chemotherapy, and then their antibiotics and the most severe treatments, for the third, specifically working with bone marrow transplant patients, the patients who have the higher gut diversity do better. They surv...they're more likely to survive, it actually affects survival rate, and it reduces complications. And so this has sent them down the path of really looking into what can they do to protect the gut diversity and help these patients and so one of the questions they asked which I found fascinating is okay when you receive high doses of chemotherapy and antibiotics is there really anything you can do, or is your gut so destroyed at that point that it doesn't matter? And what they found was actually even a little bit helps these patients and helps their survival rate. And what that means is even if there's no intervention, so they may just happen to be someone who bounces back better than somebody else. And so, and they bounce back to a just slightly higher level than the other patients whose guts destroyed that slight increase in diversity, they do better. So that means even if they eat a better diet, they're potentially going to do better, which is to me huge because you can come in with something that is a more dietary or intervention and improve their outcomes. And so again...
Very, very interesting and very congruent, Brown, with what, what you've been talking about even back to the inception of Atrantil. We, we have what we think are these incredible polyphenols this polyphenolic blend to feed bacteria. But, you know, the opposite needs to be true. Also, if if the correct bacteria aren't there to be fed in the right ratios, then we're just not going to have the byproducts, the postbiotics that we need for the body.
Yeah. So Aubrey, so I'm sitting here listening to you, and I'm thinking, okay, so we talk about bio diversity and all this stuff. But the reality is, is that the bio diversity leads to this complex cascade of things that happen.
Yes.
And if I've got in my world, gastroenterology, I've got patients that have their colons taken out due to ulcerative colitis, due to cancer, due to different things. And we've actually talked, we've got one of my graduate students, actually, Angie will be very excited to know that you came on. I've got a graduate student that Eric and I work with carefully, and we started discussing this that well, what happens nobody's talking about If you don't have your microbiome, how can you make sure they have sufficient amounts of butyric acid? How can you make sure that there's urolithic come out there? How can you make sure that now Gaba and now we know that are they getting the appropriate amount of vitamin K, are they getting the glutathione things that we know that the bacteria break down, nobody's talking about that. And the ability to say, okay, during this acute process of getting chemotherapy, I would almost think that your particular product should be the protocol to ensure that there is something.
Well, and that's what I think we got passionate about if there's nothing done to support the body to recover better when certain treatments or therapies are given and why not. So it's, you know, I mean, I think it brings me back a little bit to this COVID situation, what what's your best defense, your immune system, your own body, you know, and I think that no matter what you have, no matter what treatment you're given, your own body's going to be doing some of the legwork to get you back to where you want to be, or at least even to be able to handle the treatment better because a lot of these treatments are so harsh that they're also taking a toll on your own immune system or your own body in various ways. So, and we're not doing anything to help mitigate that or support the body as it's recovering. And that seems like an easy place to intervene and have because it's, it's gonna fall back on that on your body anyway.
You know, I'm sitting there thinking about you as a young girl looking out the window, being hyper vigilant with the sympathetic nervous system, and then I'm thinking about a cancer patient that wakes up and goes, oh, shit, I have cancer. That thought sympathetic nervous system goes up.
Exactly.
Then a nurse comes in says, Remember you have chemo. Oh my God, I'm gonna have diarrhea, and nausea and vomiting. And I mean, you cannot think of a worse scenario, then and my, I mean, we've treated a ton of cancer, and the thought of the sympathetic nervous system going overboard the worries that are going on the financial stress, all this other stuff, it's very similar to the COVID situation. So similar,
And that's our lifestyle these days, is this a high, heightened, stressful situation is we're constantly under stress. And so, and I think why, until you get something more severe, a lot of times, we're not thinking of what the effects of this are. But really the goal would be anytime you're sort of hitting a heightened stress, how do you balance that with also protecting yourself? And we're not really ingrained to think that way yet. You know, because it's having one round of antibiotics, we should be doing something to build ourselves back up to protect our gut microbiome. So that's why we looked into that in the study of like, how do you protect the diversity and make yourself and help yourself bounce back, right? Because that directly affects your immune system, which is suppressed during that medication and it's going to need to bounce back, you know, the microbiome helps with that. So that should be when you're in a stressful period when you get you know, because then we may not have it cascade into these larger problems, we start looking at it early. But then again, when you have the most extreme problem even then it helps you bounce back. And I, I just keep seeing this also vision in my head of the COVID situation of what happens when the whole world takes a break for a little bit. You saw how even like nature bounced back so quickly, right? Like the amount that we can all bounce back is actually incredible. If you just give a little bit of help...for a second.
And I love how you're saying that because there's I have so many patients that when they they do something that let's say that they are...well, we've seen this. So Eric and I, we've we launched a program, Aubrey that we call the frontline program, because we believe so strongly that gut health, you cannot have a healthy immune system without a healthy gut. Because health begins there. And so we have launched a program where we're just giving away Atrantil because I know that it increases diversity. I know that it actually has anti pathogenic activity. I know this and we discussed it as a company, that we have a moral obligation to at least help the people that I'm with like I could, the thought that I could go to my hospital and find a nurse that maybe, you know, if somebody died, that maybe we could have just given them something to help, then that, that really that that drive starts getting me thinking about all the stuff that you're talking about, which is like, why can't we start doing protocols at a hospital that are essentially harmless, which is what you're talking about. There, the risk to benefit ratio, and it's insane the hurdles you have to go through. Like you had to find somebody at Memorial Sloan Kettering, you had to sit down, you had to go through meeting after meeting after meeting he had to then get passionate enough to go to the IRB to go to that. I mean, I've been there. And you're like, for God's sakes!
Right.
I mean, we're on the cardiac floor. The cardiac diet is pancakes and syrup and...
Right, right. Yeah. I in and it's, it's kind of like Why not? You know, it's as you're saying it's why not do something that is going to do now it may help it may not in some situations, but why not?
Yeah, we're going so far as we're giving away. I mean, we're losing a ton of money doing this just trying to make sure that if it does, if it can help, and we learned that it helps later, then I would look back at myself at this time and go you're a jerk for not at least trying to tell people.
That's really great. That's really great.
But it brings a question to my mind, Aubrey with your PhDs and we kind of set the stage here a little bit. So medicine in its early day was all it's all predicated. All the information we have is predicated on people doing experiments it's how we, we came to find everything and then ultimately which seemed like that we're at this intersection where innovation which might occur outside of, you know, the small little nucleus of companies or a handful of doctors is just summarily rejected until finally, over time, it's finally accepted because it happens to work for for someone else, or it's disproven and it doesn't work at all. But what inspires your PhDs to work with a company that's essentially helping challenge the status quo by using natural solutions? Because I know what works for Ken and I, it's because we see people smile and get real relief after trying for so long. So that's an easy one. But what is it about the PhD at that level who's like, you know what, I'm going to go to work today and keep challenging this because why?
You know, that's great question. So I think a couple things I do think the microbiome has really opened the door to it's almost looking at it through the lens of the microbiome being complex, and not necessarily as much what the input is, because when you're looking at postbiotics, it kind of takes it one step away from like whether it starts as a natural product or not. I also think this next generation of scientists is they're very, the ones I'm meeting now are very interested in how can I make a difference? How can I not just stay in the lab? And how can I put something into the world and see that research be realized? And I think I happen to meet scientists that were passionate about, okay, this approach of taking the one missing bacteria, or this group of missing bacteria is not going to work. And they were willing to kind of stand on the edge and say that and my co founder who I work directly with, he did some research in Japan and you know, overseas, so I think it really opened up his eyes to hey, there are these things that have been studied for a long period of time that have been used with patients, but it just wasn't under a scientific rigor. So what happens if we look at that information and we start putting it under the lens that we look at other scientific remedies, what will we find? And it's more of just an openness to asking that question, and not really saying, okay, let's pick something more natural. It's more just like, okay, let's open our door to this wider range of things, whether it's natural or not. Let's look at what works.
You know, I love how you say that. Let's open the door. Because what I've run into, which I'm sure you have run into, is what I I call cognitive dissonance. If somebody believes something, and they don't want to think about anything else, you described it as opening the door, just look outside and see and keep an open mind about that. That's really cool that you found people like that because when you get up a team, one thing that has been really neat about this whole COVID-19 issue is the collaboration of the scientists around the world. People are running with...people are just sharing data. And they're just saying, hey here, just what can you do with this? And this is, I think that the collaboration that's going on right now with you and your team is so cool, because this whole idea of opening the door and saying natural solutions and what is natural the most, you almost it has this implication that, oh, I'm going to try something unusual. And what you're saying is no, we're going to use our body and we're just going to feed it what it wants and allow the bacteria to do what they do, which is the most basic fundamental thing you can do for your health. I love that.
And it's also not looking at the two extremes, right? I think, you know, just because something's natural doesn't mean it's healthy either. I think that's that's pretty clear as well, I you know, that there's, we can't jump to an extreme on either side of this. It's like okay, we can have a wider array of what we're looking at to support the body and then we test it and that's it. So what got the scientists I'm working with fully on board was our first study, we had a control group and we had results that were surprising to all of us because we went in saying, we don't know, maybe this could work. And then we got the results from the first study. So that's really what sealed the deal. Not not any kind of hope around it. Right?
Yeah. Let me pin you down a little more. I know that Eric poked you a little bit here. But I'm going to take you one step further. So well, I want to know the because I'm, I'm much like you I'm into the science, but also own a company. And so I'm curious where Aubrey sees the business side of this. Where do you see that going? And you already said that science. You're correct. You're helping people. So morally, you're on the right place, but you also have to pay these six PhDs you also have and, and the beauty of having a successful company is that you can hire more people, more people can can can get insurance more people can, you know, there's nothing wrong with taking a beautiful scientific idea and turning it into a successful company.
Yeah, yeah. And I and I tend to think of I prefer building a company where maybe there's a bigger hurdle upfront. And then hopefully, once you get over that, you're gonna have an easier time rather than sort of getting out the gate and meaning if you do the science, you get the credibility and you'll get people behind me and that could be your marketing that you go out the gate with. So what we're hoping is to get this next study done, which we hope we can get this study done with these cancer patients, which is more extreme scenario, right, and then we could put it as a medical food and that would be the hope and then you can also use it as an adjunct when these other medications are given because it's essentially 24% of medications affect your gut microbiome negatively, right. So really want to pay attention to when you're taking these medications, how do you protect it and I think also in these stressful situations, so the idea would be to get it as a medical food and then also take it when you take antibiotics and other things. And so it's not kind of it's when you need it right now like an ongoing every day sort of thing.
Well, I see it as a not to have death by 1000 cuts, because I'm seeing going to my company, digestive health associates of Texas, I think that you have a relationship to Dr. Rogoff, one of my partners.
Yep.
Don't you?
Yes, I do. He's a great guy. Yes.
So we've got a Research Division that does pharmaceutical research. My background was in pharmaceutical research. That's how I went from that's how I discovered a a hole that they were missing and that a natural solution could fail. And that's very similar to what you did pharmaceutical marketing. Well, it would be really interesting that you got me thinking that I'm like, wow, we could easily do an inflammatory bowel disease study. And people that have had colectomies and see how they feel just a quality of life scale something super easy. Now you really got me thinking like, are they? Are they living their life with one hand tied behind their back? Because we took out their colons?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, that would be that would be very interesting to do. I would love to do that. And I think, you know, here's the other side of it if we find something really interesting in one of these studies too to be able to take a collection of metabolites to say to really look at what are what are the predominant ones that are sort of the this lever for the inflammatory or the immune response is is a way to go, you know, because I think we can dig even deeper into so my interest is not looking at okay, these bacteria are the ones that are responsible but which metabolites are responsible in which collection metabolites that can potentially trigger the system?
Yeah, fascinating that you say that because I've met with scientists that are actually working for pharmaceutical companies trying to get the one metabolite. And they're trying to get the patent on that. And I just laugh because I'm like, so you get this so does it survive in the gastrointestinal tract? Does it is it the actual one that the bacteria can you have, like we talked about on our show, Eric, you can have too much of a good thing. Your everything has to be in balance. Eric frequently will hyperventilate when I work with him because he thinks that air is good for him, and he'll just do too much. He doesn't do that.
One time I realized that shoes made my feet more comfortable. So I just I just covered myself in shoes. Really, really bizarre. Well, hey, I think that, undoubtedly and away from even just this, this, this COVID interview that it's obvious that we could find some synergy between efforts, but for everybody who's listening, anybody else who's interested in postbiotics plus, how can someone else become involved, get in touch with and possibly even help you find what your goals are as well?
Yeah, I think the easiest way is the websites postbioticsplus.com and send an email through there and anybody that's interested in helping us move this research forward, that's that's sort of our biggest goal right now or yeah, that's that's the easiest way to do it. I think we're trying to do it in an organized way with a formal study and then we'll go from there, so
We will try our best to do that I have an ask of you though.
What...oh no
There's gives and asks, I don't remember his name, but you've got some badass person at Baylor that's head of virology and micrology, microbiology on I saw that on your team on his page. I would love to get in touch...
Oh Joseph. Yeah, okay. Okay. Yeah.
You've got, I mean, from an academic standpoint, you've got a pretty heavy hitter page. That was a...
We've got a good group.
Yeah, I mean, like, I'm a I'm a nerd through and through. And so I was like, oh my gosh, look at this. Oh, yeah. And I start looking at the research. I'm like, oh my gosh.
Yes, yes, we can. We can make that happen. We can make it, have you talk to him, so...
Cool. Cool.
That is awesome. Aubrey. For those of y'all who may not know she's the hardest working woman in postbiotics because we're talking on Memorial Day morning. So.
Oh, yeah. Thank you so much for doing this.
Yeah. Thank you so much for carving out time to visit with us. This was an incredible discovery of synergy between efforts and it's I mean, to me, it's just it's not only a relief, it's exciting to find somebody else who also realizes that there isn't just one solution and to find solutions, it takes a team effort and it's different than
Now we have a club.
This is awesome. So so let's start a Facebook group and other things that clubs do I'm not much into social media, but okay, we'll try it. It'll just be awkward staring at each other.
Secret handshake.
How did this work again? Yeah. Awesome. Thank you guys for having me.
I love the work you're doing. Thank you so much for everything Aubrey Levitt postbiotics plus. We're gonna try we're gonna stay in touch. We're going to collaborate like crazy. I've got some scientists you need to meet around the world, some crazy smart people doing very similar things. I'd like to meet some of your scientists, so on and so on. And I don't think that I think that maybe a collaboration between us could probably help out this crisis that we're going through right now eventually. Not in a not in an arrogant way. But yeah, I believe that you see it also that immunity starts in the gut.
Yeah, can it can I say one last thing? I know we're, but there's a study. I mean, when you think of collaborating, there's a study. I think it's at Columbia right now that's looking at fiber and inulin, of how it can prevent secondary infections in this COVID thing, and I think there needs to be one in postbiotics of how we can look at.
Well, the article that, that that that Sylvia did was really wild because she showed the increase in butyric acid, and it was tenfold. It was 100,000 fold, it was nuts, that I had no idea when you start looking at this where you can actually show this and then we start to I've got this, do you have a Mandalay account, the repository of literature?
No.
I'll hook you up with this. In fact, we probably team up I've got a I've got an enterprise level Mendeley account where you can just put literature, download literature and put it into files so that you you can search your what you want. So I could like go right now and type in postbiotic you know Sloan Kettering and your your stuff would pop up. It's really it's just it's just a way to collaborate with other scientists that I've really enjoyed so that we can do stuff like this.
Great, great. Sounds good.
Ladies and gentlemen, that's, that's COVID Episode 6.0 Aubrey Levitt postbioticsplus.com thank you so much for joining us and thanks to our sponsors atrantil.com of course ilovemytummy.com KBMD health and unrefinedbakery.com Aubrey, thank you so much. Ken-any last words?
No, thank you so much for taking the time and and on Memorial Day you know not being out on a boat using proper social isolation taking the time to do a podcast.
Thank you guys.
Have a good one.
Bye. Bye.
Talk to you soon, bye.
Oh, she she jumped out.
What's up everyone? Here we are, again, we're on episode 5.5, I had to bring back my favorite second favorite co host, Dr. Akerman, because what we're going to talk about today is really interesting. It's the thing that everybody has been discussing in the news. It's how do we test people? Everyone needs to be tested. And then people go, Oh, well, there's these bad tests out there. Oh, with a sensitivity specificity. Nobody's explaining any of it. So as it turns out, Dr. Akerman is really smart at this stuff. And we've been working with a company because we want to introduce rapid testing here in North Texas. And Dr. Akerman has actually helped this company a ton in the type of tests that they're doing, how to explain it. And we're talking sensitivity, specificity, negative predictive value, positive predictive value stuff that I struggle with a ton, well as it turns out, the other guy on the side of the screen here is super smart at it. So Dr. Akerman, can you comment on that real quick?
Yeah. First of all, Make sure you don't burn any bridges with your first favorite co hosts.
Yeah, right.
And, and you're right. I mean, we've pretty much turn on the TV go on the internet, and we're talking about, you know, testing, what kind of testing, is it available, how much do we need? And then you kind of hear from the other side that there may be tons of tests, but too many, and they're not as good. And, you know, you sort of take that all at face value. But what does that mean that the test is no good, what makes it a good or a bad test? And I think that's where, you know, maybe we can do a better job of explaining it to people. And you're right, it's it's super confusing. So...
We did Episode 4.5, where we talked about different the mcas and the antibody testing and things. So we kind of hinted at it. But now we're getting to this point where we're saying, Yeah, but what does all that mean? Nobody's talking about it. You You and I got in a discussion John Oliver. You watched a show on that.
Yeah. So you know, I don't want to sort of rehash I don't think we're going to do it justice. John Oliver with his extensive medical degree, did an excellent job last week explaining some of the differences between the tests and some of the pitfalls. But I think where we can add a little value to the discussion is to discuss why. Why is it that the test you might go get at your local, you know, minuteclinic, or doctor's office or anything, why that might not offer you the value that you're really looking for.
Yeah, and we can we talked before about the pros and cons of that. We don't know that. But what we're going to talk about today is why that's why getting a test may mean something different if you're in New York or if you're in Plano, Texas,
right? And you want to know the characteristics of the test the characteristics of the disease process, where you are, and what you're trying to get out of the test. And that will determine whether or not it number one makes sense for you to get tested, and how you can get a better result.
Yeah, so we've been seeing that the FDA is saying that you have to apply for this and then you have to achieve a certain. Let's start with the basics, a certain sensitivity and specificity, sensitivity, my friend.
So actually, what I want to do is I'm gonna I'm gonna share my screen with a couple slides here. And, you know, I want to I want to go over some important definitions. There's tons of stuff and you don't need a degree in statistics to figure this out. But it can be confusing. So I think if we sort of write it down, and might it might hit home a little bit better. So
I'm still impressed that you actually left New York I really because you seem like somebody who would be teaching at NYU or Mount Sinai or something like that. So, thank you for joining our group.
I wanted to have more time for podcasts.
There we go.
So a couple six definitions that I want to I want to go over here. And the first you alluded to sensitivity and specificity. The best way I would explain sensitivity is what percentage of patients that actually have the disease will test positive. Right? So the true positives coming out of the, of the test. And the specificity is the opposite. It's the percentage of the patients that don't have the disease and will test negative. So the patients who appropriately test negative for this disease process. Those are intrinsic qualities of the test itself. So you can apply the specificity and the sensitivity to any different population because the test characteristics don't change. What does change and this is the difference is the positive and the negative predictive values. So the positive predictive value, are the percentage of those positive tests that are accurately positive, and the negative predictive value is the percentage of negative tests that are accurately negative to say it another way, when I get a test, if it tells me I'm positive, what are the chances that it's right? That's what I really care about. I want to know If I think I have strep, and I go get a strep test, and it's positive, should I be taking antibiotics? And will I get better? That's what we're really asking. And it is different than the sensitivity and specificity, which I will clarify in a second. The other two really important definitions are the incidence of disease and the prevalence of the disease because these are two different things. The easiest way to differentiate is the incidence are the proportion of people who actively currently have the disease. The prevalence is how many people were affected, not necessarily currently infected. So when you talk about it in terms of the test that we're talking about the PCR test looking for active viral replication, that's looking at the incidence of disease, who's got it now. But the antibody testing, looks at who's got it or who had it. And that's more a test for the prevalence of the disease.
Well explained. Okay, yeah.
All right. So the classic way we look at this is using this, it's called a two by two table or a two by two plot. And you basically up on the, in the in the top bar here, that's the disease or the process that you're looking at whether you have positive or negatives. And then along the margin here, you're talking about the test characteristics, a positive or a negative test. So when you want to calculate the sensitivity, you're looking at this row right here. So the people who have true positives over the total number of positives, so 80, excuse me, if you've got 100% of people ten, let's say people who have a positive test and only eight of them actually have the disease. That means eight out of ten or 80% sensitivity for that test. When you look on the, the the right column here, that's where you're gonna figure out your specificity. That's your negative side. It's the total number of true negatives, people who actually don't have the disease and tested negative over all the negative tests that's going to tell you your specificity.
So I remember...
Sorry?
Go ahead. No, I was just gonna dumb it down to a level that this...I just remember that when I had somebody explained it to me that think of sensitivity and the specificity. If you were to look at these graphs, think of it like a car alarm, that if you make everything so sensitive, so that you could catch the person trying to steal your car. That means that a horn or a loud noise will set it off. If you make it super specific, that it only means that one method of a car being stolen. And so you have this issue of you have this trade off where you have the you want a car alarm that's super sensitive and will catch everything but you're going to get false positives all the time or do you want a specific test that only catches but every once in a while, they're gonna be able to steal your car a different way.
Right. And the ideal test is going to be high at both. It's gonna be really great at ruling people in and great at ruling people out. And the question that often comes up is how do you know the sensitivity and specificity? And the answer is you have to validate every study against the gold standard test ones where you know the numbers and see how it performs. The positive and negative predictive values are different. That's looking across the rows. So if you have the percentage of positive tests accurately positive, now you're looking at of all the tests you did and all the positives you got, how many were right, how many actually are getting positive for a person who has a disease as opposed to missing it, right. So to say it a different way, the percentage of positive tests that are accurately positive, because it's how many people in there have it and showed it versus how many have it and you missed them. The negative predictive value is the bottom row, kind of similar, how many of the people who the tests that are negative, actually are negative, and you've missed and got these false positive results and people who actually don't have the disease.
That's so fascinating, because once you got me thinking about this, and I've learned this for every board exam, and then I've kind of forgotten it, and then I have not applied it. And then I started thinking about this, you got me thinking, we need to be using this type of logic in the area they're at with the incidence prevalence. It's got me kind of rethinking how to look at this whole thing.
Yeah, and it doesn't this is not something that's unique to COVID testing. This is true of every single test that we do. If you get flu swab if you get a strep test, a culture, everything...
Oh a UA for a UTI, I mean you name it, we're you're gonna use this on every single test. as clinicians we tend to move away from this a little bit because well, we're just treating symptoms and we're kind of moving on but this is such an it's such a fun exercise and if you're...if anybody's listening to this, and they've got a child, niece, nephew, friend, anybody who's in med school, this is a great way to learn it. This is not how they teach you in med school, they teach it way harder. That's why it never sinks in.
Yeah, well, I've had time to think about it and marinate for a bit. So I just want to finish this without leaving too many slides here. But what I want to do is I want to show now how the disease prevalence how much disease there is in the population that you're testing will affect the positive and negative predictive values. Okay. So to say it a different way, the more prevalent your disease is, the more chance there is of having a true positive, and therefore your positive predictive value will go up. Whereas when you have a lower incidence of disease, it's more likely that the random person you test is negative, so that's going to favor having a better negative predictive value. Okay. So as I said in the beginning sensitivity and specificity, that doesn't change that's inherent to the test. So if I tell you that there's a 10% incidence of disease, and an 80% sensitivity of the test that we're applying, eight people will test positive who have the disease, two who have the disease will be missed and test negative. For the specificity I'm using in this test, an arbitrary value of 94% I'm just telling you that that's the parameter of this test. 90 people because it's a 10% incidence disease 90% don't have it. So 85 will test negative based on a 94% specificity. And five will test positive, even though they don't have it, they're false positives. So looking across here, eight out of 13 people will test positive and have the disease that's a positive predictive value is 62%. That means if you go today, and you go get tested, and it's positive, almost a flip of a coin, if that test is accurate for you, whereas it does a great job of telling you you don't have it if it's negative, so you can feel a lot more confident in that negative study than you can in the positives. When you flip this around, and you increase the disease incidence, and instead you got 20% of people now, the sensitivity and specificity didn't change, you're using the same exact test. So I know that the sensitivity and specificity are 80 and 94 doesn't make a difference.
Just to clarify. So to get the sensitivity and specificity it's usually Done where they have the known disease negative known disease positive, they go to a clinical lab and they run it. And then they can show, okay, because that's what's going on right now.
Right, they compare it to a gold standard. And that's one of the issues here. We don't have gold standards, but we've got good ideas. And we know that people who are positive with the PCR testing, that's the time to check people because that becomes our gold standard. And those have a very, very high sensitivity and specificity. The assays that we've been using for PCRs, have sensitivity and specificity of 98 and 99%.
Of the test, but then we can talk about technique, which is a whole different thing.
Which changes, and can lower your sensitivity...part of the problem. So here in this in this example, we're gonna say that 20% of the people that you're testing have the disease process. So now, up here 20% 20 people out of 100 habit 80 don't so now 80% of them 2016 20% is for on the flip side here 75 test negative don't have it five do. So now when you calculate the positive predictive value, because more people around you have it, there's more of a chance a positive will be right. 16 out of 21 increases your positive predictive value to 76%. But the flip side to that, since more people have the disease, there's a slightly lower chance that a negative will catch you appropriately. So now 75 out of 79 give you a negative predictive value of 95%. So to summarize that one more time: the higher the prevalence of the disease, the higher the positive predictive value, the better a positive test indicates true disease. In a lower incidence population, there's less disease there. The test is much better at giving you a true negative result and ruling the test the ruling the disease out for you.
Got it.
Hope that makes sense. I mean, I think that...
Let's, let's play around with a little bit I went ahead and pulled up an Excel spreadsheet. And if you'll let me share real quick I'll do the same thing. Let's play with this. Let's say that there's 100,000 person population. And we can change these parameters. Let's say that it's infected by SARS CoV. There's 2000 not infective. So the prevalence we are now in where are we...Plano? What do you think? What do you think our prevalence will end up being?
So tough to say but there's actually data in Dallas, and our prevalence is somewhere between 11 and a half and 12%?
Oh, really? Yeah, that is way higher than when I was thinking.
It's published data by the Dallas department of health.
Okay, so who let's say that there's a 1% prevalence, then what that means is just like you were explaining, if we have a sensitivity of 98%, and a specificity of 99,
So a very ideal test.
It is the ideal test. And so if you have this, the positive predictive value is literally a flip of a coin. That is, with the best test you can have. That is fascinating with what you just showed. And then of course, the negative predictive value, just like you explained is 100%. So let's say and you're part of the solution, because as we talked about last time, and as we've been working with these companies, we want to be part of the solution. We want to be able to do rapid point of care, IgG IgM tests, and we want to get that data and we want to show it but let's say that here in the state of Texas we are at 12%. That positive predictive value goes to 93% So the more that we know about how many people are infected, the more that we can help these companies with their testing, and the more that we can say things. So I want you to explain this. You have a patient that says, Dr. Akerman, I watched your podcast. And let's assume that we're going to split the difference or whatever, somewhere around 5%. So I got a positive test. What would you tell your coworker, patient friend that did this looking at that?
So which tests are we talking about?
Oh, we're talking about, I thought I had COVID, two months ago, and I tested IgG positive.
Right. So if you've got an antibody test, that's positive, assuming all these characteristics, I'd say there is a very good likelihood you in fact had the disease but if you tested negative, I will tell you almost certainly you haven't had it or been exposed.
So let's get back to those tests there. I'll stop my share. The value of doing antibody tests. Everybody on the news is talking, we need to get tested, we need to get tested. nobody's talking what type of tests, the FDA tries to say, sensitivity specificity, you just showed very clearly that it really depends on where you're getting it done. So we'll be able to gather some of this data. And as we start doing this, what are you going to tell your patients that do test positive as we're gathering the data? So that's, that's an ideal. We can play with the numbers. We don't know what the numbers are yet in each segment. So what would you say to that just so that everybody is very clear about what an antibody test is.
So right now, the only thing that we can tell you if you're If you have antibodies is whether or not you've been exposed. The assumption is that there's immunity because that's how immunity works for all kinds of viruses. But the The X Factor here, is that what that means for each virus is different. How much do you need for immunity? How long does that immunity last? Can you lose that? Will it wane over time? And these are all the questions that we can't yet answer. So if you're going to get tested, it doesn't help you so much at the moment, because we don't know what it means for immunity, but it helps the population because it helps us better define how prevalent the disease is and that starts helping us then figure out well, when are we going to get closer to herd immunity because we know a certain a certain amount of the population needs to have been exposed. Right?
Can you just define herd immunity really quick because that gets thrown around a whole lot by the media. But the reality is herd immunity is a very definitive or it's not a definitive thing. It's a theoretical thing. But...
Right, so if you have the disease, and you're walking around, and all these other people around you that you could potentially, infect, that's not going to be great, right? And that's kind of what happened in the beginning, right? People were walking around, they didn't know that they were infected themselves, and therefore able to infect other people. But if enough people walking around you are for lack of a better term at the moment immune so they can't get infected, then the fact that you have the infection isn't as big a deal. And that's what herd immunity is that if enough people around you are immune, your ability to affect the population as a whole goes down. And that's the idea behind immunity and vaccination to create this herd immunity.
Yeah, think of it like you're at a bowling alley, there's 12 lanes, 12 people the lane one person has the virus, they give it to lane two, lane two gives it to lane three, lane three gives it to somebody who has been vaccinated. It stops. Lanes 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 do not get this. So that's that's what the herd immunity is. I don't know what the it's based on R0 number, the number of exposed, I think I read someplace, it's if we can get 70% of the US either vaccinated or infected. It basically is wipes out this disease.
I'll admit I've heard the same number but I don't know. I don't know the data behind it. But I have seen that quoted.
Now you got me questioning data all the time. Now, you know, I'm looking at it's oh my gosh, I'm getting I actually I'm gonna take a break Eric and I worked with Eric today and I was like, dude, can we do a non COVID podcast? Can we do I don't really care what we talked about. Eric brought up, Mike Tyson looks like he's training again. And at 53 he looks like he could just wreck shop. So I'm like, let's talk boxing or something, anything but COVID right now, because the data is just bruhhh, all these non peer reviewed articles that then get chewed up and shredded by statisticians and other doctors. It's, it's hard. It's really hard
It is and it's confusing. And, you know, I think when it comes to all this COVID testing, you know, some of the things you got to remember, as a patient or someone who's looking to get tested, there's tons of tests available now, tons, and all of them have different sensitivities and specificities and because of that, their ability to tell you whether you do or don't have the disease or in the antibody testing, whether they whether you have or haven't been exposed. are gonna vary, right? And many of those tests were recalled already by the FDA and the FDA is starting to crack down on it because they, they sort of opened the gates a little too wide. And because we don't know yet the incidence and prevalence of the disease, it makes it a little more challenging to calculate those positive and negative predictive values. And we know that geography plays a role in this because the incidence changes, right? While it definitely is higher in Dallas than we initially thought, we haven't thankfully gotten anywhere near what the incidence is in New York where in some areas it's gotten over 20%. So the same test might might tell you different things depending on whether you did it in Dallas or whether you did it did it in New York.
And you know, you said it best right there that if we do this when we get our tests in because you're an integral part of this, and you're gonna, you're gonna help us try and figure this out tests that we're looking at, will upload to the CDC to help them have real time history. We're gonna have a snapshot of our area, it would be so cool to we're all in this together kind of attitude. Well, let's bring the data in together. I did have a very interesting discussion which you and I have talked about with the manager at our surgery center today, Chris, and he was like, but what do you do if you start testing employees does do you have to shut up? I mean, then all of a sudden get into these ethical, theoretical, where do we go blah blah blah, like you just just go down rabbit holes. All I know is we got to start getting some data and we can start doing it between you and I we can get our patients involved we can get people coming in if you want to get a finger prick and find out if your IgG positive. I know I will feel more comfortable going to the hospital I know I'll feel more comfortable hugging my wife. If we're both IgG positive whether I'm wrong we're just going to learn over time but there's no way to test it.
Right and and some of this, you know, information that we're going to gather now, you know, will be available later that we can look back at and reanalyze. So we've got a, we've got to build that data set. And that's kind of the pitch that I would make to our patients and the community at large. You know, if someone says to me right now, should I get tested for antibodies? You know, is there value to it? I would say there is you just have to understand what that value is. And right now, there's a little bit less of a value personally, although there's definitely some, like you just said, but there's a big community impact that we can we can have.
Okay, so you always end up with some great little nugget. Say that one more time right now.
So, as it stands right now, you'll have some information for yourself. I can't tell you if you're immune. We can tell you if you've been exposed, which is on the mind of many people. I had that illness two months ago, they tested me for flu, it was negative. But now that I know that I know more about COVID why couldn't I have had COVID at that time? This can answer that question. But it can't tell me if I'm immune. But on a population level, it can start telling us what that prevalence of disease is, it then can feed back and make our tests better. Because now we know what the prevalence is. It has ripple effects,
This is usually the stuff that's discussed in an academic institution behind ivory tower. Now we're just like, we're all in it people let's all do this. That's, that's what's cool.
Yeah, and, you know, two months from now, three months from now, whatever it is, when we find out what immunity means, and what what thresholds we need for immunity, we might be able to look back at this now and say, Well, we've got all these patients that are already tested, and this is the threshold in this test. Maybe these patients are immune and now we can go back and tell them that, you know, sort of remains to be seen, but I would say that there's value in antibody testing, you just have to understand what that value is and I would also suggest that and we've discussed this as part of the parameter that we're going to employ. If a patient has a positive test, you know, partially because we don't know yet how strong that positive predictive value is, and also because IgG starts during the illness, so we don't know if you're a had a disease person or have a disease person, we're going to get, we're going to have all those people get follow up testing immediately for PCR, because if your PCR test is positive, you're actually in the disease starting to get over it. And you're going to you're going to self quarantine, and we're going to let you know and you're not going to expose anyone. And now you're going to know that you had it. And that's going to help you later on, not just now.
Yeah, yeah, I know that if I when these tests come in, and I and I get tested, and I'm IgM for instance, calling up the wife and kids and I'm saying see in about three weeks go get a hotel room. Not even coming not even coming home. So...
And, you know, I'll go one step ahead of you there and sort of shift gears just a little bit on my soapbox. But, you know, we had discussed a couple recent articles, you know, offline here, one of them being that article in Spain that tested all the health healthcare workers and one of the hospitals where they had really strict PPE. And they found an incidence of the disease that was almost identical to the general incidence they have in population. And it's interesting, because we both we both came to the same conclusion, as did your favorite co host, that it wasn't that the incidence was lower. It was that PPE works. And you know, you can have your own opinions. And I'm not saying there's right or wrong about the economy and all these other things that are going on. But there are ways to meld both of those ideas together. And as we start getting out of our homes and reopening the economy, and we're more available and we have more face time with people, we shouldn't lose sight of that. And these principles that that are working to decrease transmission should still be employed.
Yeah, a recent study came out where it looked at ER physicians in Utah and very similar, like the incidence was much lower than you would think. What we're doing works the hand washing the masks everything. So yeah, well, that's awesome. Well, I tell you what, this is a tough topic that nobody's talking about. I appreciate you taking the time to do the PowerPoint. You've got it sorted out in your brain to help thicker brains like me get it kind of figured out. Because when we started realizing that, yes, when I talk to my patients, this is the incident. Six months from now we can say, oh, look, as it turns out, Plano's at 15% or North Texas or whatever, we can say with a certain certainty, this is what it is then. So thanks for helping the companies that we're working with. Thanks for taking the time to do this. And yeah, this is an ever evolving thing. And I think that we're in it, we're part of it, and the beautiful people behind you, and you're seeing there, this is why we're doing a lot of this stuff. So
Yeah, I agree. And I would encourage anyone watching these videos, to, to ask us questions. You know, we were, we're guessing based on what we're hearing and what we're seeing what it is, that's confusing, and we can help explain and, you know, disseminate the information there. But if there's specific questions, let us know. That's what we're here for.
Absolutely. And as always, please like and share, go to Dr. Akerman's website, go to my website. We got our sponsor Atrantil. We know that a healthy gut leads to a healthy immune system so everyone stay safe. Dr. Akerman once again, thank you for a fantastic point five episode.
Thank you.
Hello gut check project fans, KBMD health community. This is Eric with your host, Dr. Ken Brown, installment number five COVID file. We're here to, well, you know what, I actually I'm not gonna say what we're here to do because what Brown said he said do you know what I've got in store? And I said no, not all the way he goes good, cuz I'm not gonna tell you so
So this is COVID files number five 4.5 was me and Dr. Akerman and I love our little part time co host Dr. Akerman that is a smart dude. He challenges me to tear apart the literature and it is and we're gonna do more with him because it It allows us to critically eval the literature and he is very academic in his brain and he's an incredible doctor. But the point five is kind of wearing me out every once in a while I just need like a whole number. Really bad at math and, you know, so this episode, we've been so busy doing so many things and we'll get into that right now. But this episode, I realize I'm talking to all my staff. We're talking to patients. And there's an underlying theme here across the board. And it is I'm stressed, I'm worried, how does that affect my gut. And that's what I'm gonna talk about today. We're going to talk about ways to cope and be happy. This is gonna be a fun, you know, self help episode that based on science, always based on science, everything we do is based on science. So that's what I want this to be. I want this to be all about the tricks, tips to stay healthy, to stay healthy and get happy. Because if you're happy, then your other systems like your gut and your immune system are going to be better performing. So you didn't even know that we're going to do this episode, but that's what we're doing today.
Yeah, well, you know what, I'm pretty excited about it, and I can tell you one thing just off the top. Once we started doing the COVID recap, we kind of stopped a little bit as we got a little bit more serious and we abandoned a little bit talking of patients I mean our families I'm sorry, family and catching up and stuff like that. I gotta say, I know it's a pandemic and and hearts out to everybody who's suffered but for us personally been home, I got a senior who's graduating, we got to put in a lot more family time. Sophomore kiddo in the house is hilarious, wife and I got a lot more walks and bike rides in. You know, I didn't work for weeks didn't make any money. But at the same time, I feel a little richer just by some of the extra family time.
So Stu keeps sending videos. So he's gotten into the whole fact of taking some videos based on doing some stuff with us. And he's got his kids doing stuff. They're doing the Akermann News Network, he's keeping them busy. And I realized I'm like, wait a minute. Both you Eric and Stu, have found a way to remain happy, keep your family engaged. And I'm like, that's what this episode is gonna be about. Because you guys did it intrinsically, you naturally are able to find that and that's what I want to talk about. But more on kind of a science level. So it was very hard to sit there and do some of those episodes when the pandemic was starting. And we're like, hey, Eric, tell me about your family. And it's like and then the next line is 1 million people have coronavirus this many people have died this. We're getting away from that a little bit now, because we realized we were in a pandemic, we're in this thing, but now it's time to realize this may be a very slow exit from here and what you did and bracing your kids and what Stu has done, where he sat with his family, and they've, he's turned little movie stars out of his daughters and they're, he's absolutely screwed because they're gonna want to go to acting school now and all this other stuff. But that is the kind of stuff because when I sit with my employees that are stressed to the hilt single moms, they're like, I'm waking up with panic attacks. Dr. Brown, how can I do something and so I was, you know, we're starting to open up the economy here in Texas or open up, your governor Abbott's letting more people get around each other. Now I'm getting all these patients calling me going I'm terrified. I have this disease. My employer now wants me to go back. How do I have to go back but I'm having panic attacks. What do I do? Well, let's do a podcast on that. That's what I thought.
This, to me, I think it'd be a great idea to do exactly that because inevitably we've got to move on. We can't sit around and you just don't want to get lost in watching the counts on television or keeping up with the next the next latest fad on what was one of the crazy things I heard someone saying using a hairdryer shoving that up your nose to blast away Coronavirus? I mean, we need to be practical.
Can I stop you right there? Is that seriously a fad? Because I've been doing that.
Well, I want to let you know that your nose hairs are...they're beautiful.
I know at the very least I've not been clipping them so at least saves them back to a presentable level.
Yeah, I think we're gonna have I think we're gonna have some new fads come out of this thing. I think that some of the 70s hairstyles are going to come back. I haven't had a haircut...
Oh my gosh, I am absolutely loving the crazy hair. I mean, this is awesome. My kids. Well, we'll get into it. But basically you do these workouts you get sweaty and you realize how long your hair is. I'm just like, oh, this is awesome.
Well, you know, I've seen more and more people who've been wearing the mask in public Of course over time. I'm kind of curious if there's are people who generally snack it while they while they walk or why they do things. But now that they're in public, they had this maybe they'll who knows maybe maybe maybe weight loss will be inevitable because people will have a social covering where...
There's all kinds of things. So one of the things I want to try with this episode so that people are looking at this and go every time you do this get so bogged down with science, and it's an hour. I talked to Stu about that. He's like, man, I love doing this, but are we capturing the audience? I'm like, I don't know. Let's try and do a little quicker and see what happens. I don't know. I personally just like sharing information and being totally honest about this this is not about trying to develop it. I mean I want my audience to be happy and we're gaining a significant amount of traction but in this particular case, let's see if we can not get too off track because you and I I do you're always perfect but I always get off track so
It's kind of hard but we'll we'll see...thank you though for...
So I'm gonna throw this out to you tell me something a little personal now that we're not going to get too heavy what's going on with the fam?
Fam is doing great. Gage is still bracing himself they he's headed up to Texas Tech for this fall will be his, his first year in college. The orientation was moved to virtual orientation they have to do that. The level apparently trending in Lubbock currently is as it is apparently flattening out and for right now coming back down. So he'll have an online virtual orientation. Mac is is wrapping up his sophomore year at school. And he just left the house to do a bike ride and for how far who knows? Or who cares. He in his in his brother have taken off and traded out their their terms to to get some bike riding in and that's what they've been doing. Marie's remained busy for her in her business, social media is people still keep up like that. So she actually saw a boom in business over time. And then...
That's awesome.
Yeah. And actually, I went to work today for the first time. I didn't think it was the first time in seven weeks it was nice.
Did the patient flop around and scream the whole time and be like, I'm not out.
Yeah, it was a little bit of a learning curve to remember how some of the buttons work but it wasn't too bad.
Well so family's doing great. We also have been doing pretty well during this whole quarantine. We've small setback, which is where the unrefined bakery comes in. Unfortunately, Loida was enjoying playing around with the kids a little bit and she hurt herself. And so we had to add a little small setback on that, but she's doing awesome and...about it and won't be able to drive for about six weeks, but we're getting through it. I thought it was really cool. I walked into the garage and Lucas was with his computer with six other of some of the top level tennis players with a trainer there. And he's watching all of them and he's training them and he's saying they're they're all in different parts of the country. It's zoom thing. And Lucas is you know, I just took a picture of it. I thought that was just so beautiful that all the all these kids are still working out the trainer still riding them. And then I go back inside and my daughter is turned it so Lucas is like doing this virtual athlete thing. And Carla is sitting on the couch. She is the world's greatest quarantine person. She was like cross stitching and becoming like a old grandma. I'm gonna just we call her. It's really funny. So she is having no problems just sort of chillin with the school online school and all that. Yeah, so and then me personally, you and I have been busy I mean levels of busy that I have never done. For instance I did wellness mama podcast shout out to wellness mama and their team. Wow, that was cool.
Nice. Definitely
Did that one and then you and I've been doing some other cool stuff you want to tell everybody about that?
Just tons of research. I mean there's there's always been the idea of what you wanted to do on researching polyphenols or even just other natural compounds and how they can make a difference. And ultimately, we were just forced into a lot of free time that we just didn't know that we were going to have that we needed to dedicate to work and keep up with different things but it just turned into immense research, thrusting us all the way to just yesterday. We just received our first sample of what a point of care antibody test.
Oh so because of all the stuff that we've been doing and shout out to Angie Cook I mean
Angie Cook, without question...
She's working as hard as we are and stuff yeah so because of this we have access to unique people that reach out to us like people that have a legit SARS CoV2 antibody test right there and what this is what is unique about this is there's a lot of bad press going on right now. But these guys teamed up with a software company called remedy and what those two QR scans are that's unlike anything else. So you can imagine it comes with a kit like this, I just poke a finger and then we can determine if you're IgG IgM positive, go back to COVID 4.5 to learn what that means, but then we get it scans straight to the CDC and that is a game changer and because of all the work that we've been doing and the contacts that you know, we are in a position to work with a company that may frame what this country is going to do when they come back to work. So I'm super excited. And we're always working really hard to do this. And there's pros and cons to it. Please listen to 4.5. That's what I love about Stu. He's a scientist. And he says, And me, I say, we will we have to be the people that are going to help develop some of this data that everybody else can do, somebody has to jump over the fence. And traditionally, you and I have been fence jumpers. And sometimes we get bit sometimes we do right. So...
You know who else is fence jumpers, and really, really a lot of fun is going to be those that are on or that are part of the patient base that you've had that make up most of KBMD health that watch this show, because they've always been so, so energized of wanting to get involved, and this is going to be yet another opportunity to do exactly that. Hopefully
When we get these and when we're cool with this, and when we're ready to do this, we'll do a zoom with my staff, we will all have this, we'll do a point of care. They'll all be in the office. So it is at an office, we'll do a thing. All you do is pop this off, prick your finger, put it in, wait 10 minutes, and then it shows if you're IgM or IgG positive. We don't know yet if the IgG positive makes you immune. We're hoping. SARSCoV1 in 2003-they were immune. But if we can start being part of the solution, that's the deal, Eric, is that we're trying to get past this. We're working with scientists all around the world. We've had zoom calls with people at the same time. I mean, technology's amazing. And that's what we're going to talk about on this show. Is that yes, we have this thing going on, but we also have all this crazy technology. We had a zoom call with like 20 people We had people in Argentina, we had people in Spain, we had people in Italy, we had all these people in United States and everybody is sharing knowledge. They're just dumping it there. What can you do for this? How do we set up a protocol? How is this and everybody on that call had a little piece of the puzzle that led to a protocol that now the Argentinians and the Italians are having a protocol using polyphenols to potentially see if it can help COVID-19 and it was accepted by both Ministries of Health. They would like us to try and do something in the United States. It is just an honor. That, yes, my job stopped. And I became busier and made zero money. But I'm thankful that I have people like Angie cook on our team. I'm thankful that we have the rest of the team on KBS, Brandy, Anthony, Mike, Chuck, to trust us that where we're heading is an incredible place. And the ultimate goal is that we may make a difference moving forward, might not, but we've got some science to back us. So that's what I want to talk about today. How do we have science to back our mood? So that's where we're at.
Yeah, I love it. I love everything about it. And the cool thing is, is if we can be a part of even just the information gathering, you're not gonna get anywhere without information. And the coolest part is we've got so many willing participants who have said I would like to partake in that. Great, I want to be a part of it too. So it'll be a lot of fun.
You mean like on KB MD health Instagram, where I asked Paul to post your picture holding it and then you've been bombarded by instant messages.
They wanted to know how they can come and get their hands on a on antibody test and and I think everybody should call Ryan Frye. So if you're a friend of mine, you should call Ryan Frye. That's exactly you should call.
Alright, so let's let's jump into this because the ultimate thing is I want to make sure that if anybody's having any stressful times over this, we're going to talk about a few things and I've been looking at it I've always tried to talk, or I've always tried to teach myself a bunch of different things to try and control my anxious brain because I run it a little higher anxiety level than most people I would say. And time like this would be overwhelming if I didn't have techniques that I've tried to employ. And so some of the things I've been turned on to somebody called Laurie Santos, who has a podcast but she also has a Yale courses, you look at our videos, and it's all based on science. I'm a big fan of reading a stoic philosophy books like Ryan Holiday, and then ultimately trying to stay logical and finding techniques to do this. So that's what I'm talking about today. We all have setbacks. We all have things that happened to us, but this particular period has turned everything upside down. People are feeling overwhelmed, they're angry, they're alone. So let's do this podcast on some tips, tricks to reframe the perspective and gain control over your own brain. That's what I want this one to be about.
Let's try it. Let's see what happens.
Exactly. Let's try. Alright, so I wanted to do it in a couple, three different broad categories have been successful for me, right? So I'm not a psychologist, I'm not a psychiatrist. I just want to tell everybody what's what's kind of helped me a little bit. Okay, that's all that's all this is. So number one, learning from the Greek stoics. Now, I've mentioned a few times on the podcast that I'll reference Ryan Holiday in the daily stoic and things like that Ryan Holiday's an author who has been on he's getting written multiple books. He's written the book, the obstacle is the way and the daily stoic. I have the daily stoic where next to my bed where when I wake up, I try and read something and start my day off that way. There's a guy named Bill Irvine who wrote a really cool book called the stoics challenge a philosophers guide to becoming tougher, calmer and more resilient. Now in this time, we're having to postpone things and we're having to, we got a text from Nick where he's gonna be married, so are you gonna be able to get married. Do you make a plan? Do you do this? Do you have to postpone the wedding? And that's just one stressor for somebody that's going to get married. Now what about the guy that loses his job or the man or woman that loses their job? When Loida got hurt, in the hospital, they don't allow loved ones. And, you know, she's, she's tough, she's gonna be fine. She's in shape. But what about the people that are dying of cancer that can't see their loved ones because of social distancing? I just started thinking of all that, but about all of that. And then the stoic philosophy is not about ignoring the emotion. It is about skillfully avoiding negative emotions. So a lot of people think that stoics just don't feel anything. That's not the, that's not the thing. It's about avoiding the negative emotions. We have a lot more control than we think and ultimately, you've heard this a ton of times it's been said, since we've been on Earth. Worrying about something that is out of your control is a waste of time. But we do it all the time. I do it all the time. I mean, it is so hard. And then I started thinking about that. And I remember jack aloka, the PhD that is in our group who I admire so much. He keeps referring to when your reptilian brain takes over. And what he means by that is when your logical brain gets overwritten by the reptilian brain, we have our reptilian brain, our brain stem, which tells us and keeps us from getting killed. Sometimes it becomes a wrestling match between your prefrontal cortex trying to tell you hey, dude, it's all good. And your reptilian brain going no, it's not we're gonna die. We gotta run right now. And it becomes this wrestling match. And so it's this battle between the evolved brain and where we've come from maybe 1000 years from now the reptilian brain becomes nothing. But right now we still have to deal with it. In other words, that's the fight or flight. So if you're listening to this and you're like, yeah, I'm stressed out, it's because your fight or flight is taking over. So let's talk about how we can maybe get the reptilian brain to calm down a little bit and let your logical brain kick in. Are you following me?
Yeah I'm totally following you.
Alright, so we have about five seconds, generally speaking, to reframe any situation that you're in. So if you get angry, then you have about five seconds to get control. So for instance, you're working in your garage, drop a hammer hits your toe, what do you do, Eric?
First thing is, wow. probably say words I wouldn't say on our show
And you should, that's the cool thing. You can do that for five seconds.
I'm not gonna stop, I'm gonna do it. And younger me I think would be kind of miffed older me now I'm I was looking at...and I kind of assess the situation on how did it fall? I mean immediately because I want to find out if it's going to keep falling or something else is coming.
That's awesome. Yeah, so that is your cerebral cortex suppressing the reptilian brain that's awesome.
I hope that happens that when I was younger, younger me didn't do that younger me was very emotional getting kind of upset and want to move everything out of the way. Taking it out on a lot of inanimate objects, because it probably the desk is friends with other hammers that also have it in for my toe. And but now it's now it's far more logical I don't I it's, it's probably something neglectful that I did. And if not, I probably won't put myself in that situation anymore.
See, you automatically have these skills. So you know, like think about road rage and stuff something happens, escalates. Now you're in a different situation. Now you're in a worse situation. There's a Buddhist philosophy that if you get hit with one arrow, then you ask yourself is getting hit with one arrow bad? Yes, it is, is two and three arrows worse? Yes, it is. Typically the second and third arrow are under our control. So you what you just said is fantastic. Younger you would have thrown the hammer through the window. Now you gotta fix the damn window, you hit the cat, the neighbor's cat. now you got to deal with that. So that is one of those things. So it's like this is training for life. I love that you literally have developed these skills without ever thinking them. You said a younger me would have done this, but me now looks for reason.
Oh, yeah. Younger me was was not very well equipped to handle hammertoe.
Alright, so here's the two techniques. So if you're listening, if somebody's going, I don't really care how Eric handles dropping a hammer my toe because I still throw the hammer. Here's the two techniques. Stoic philosophers describe two very common techniques to help you. The first one is called framing. And framing is when a situation happens give yourself five seconds to throw those curse words out to be the, the let the reptilian brain out there, but you'll be five seconds because more than that, then it becomes an emotion that you can't control. Five seconds then frame it immediately when something happens. And there's two very common frames and I'm not a stoic philosopher, obviously, but these are the ones that I use. Remember, this is how I try and control my my emotions. One is comedic framing. So if something happens, figure a way that it's kind of funny. Even if it's not you, it's somebody else looking at it that'd be pretty funny if somebody else saw it. If I saw Eric accidentally drop a hammer on his toe. I would be like, dude, you're okay. And you're like, yea, like, dude, you're so dumb you had like Vaseline on your hands and grabbed the hammer and you swung it, then it becomes funny immediately. Doing a comedic frame helps with that. And then the other one, which is much more in line with my personality, it's easier for me to do. It's called a story timeline. So basically, we're in a situation so the comedic framing is really good for an immediate of that hammer drops on your toe, you figure out how to fix that. You figure out how to make it funny for yourself. But we're in a pandemic. If you're in a war. If you're in a period, then this you can't just make a joke of it and move on and be logical. And one of the things that the stoics have done is that they say focus on the story timeline. How will I be able to tell my grandchild about this event that's going on right now. I want to be able to on the other side of this, how will I be perceived? Once again with my office when we sat and had a meeting, we're like, do we furlough people. And Dr. Akerman said, before we even talk about that, how do we want to be perceived when this thing on the other side, we want to be known as bosses that treated their employees well, so let's start with that, and work our way back. This is exactly what this is. This is how, how will I sit there and tell my grandkids, how I handled the war, the Stockholm paradox and in the book, good to great that you and I are reading in business, he was a prisoner of war for seven years. And he said the people that died were the ultimate optimists. He was an optimist, but a realist. In other words, I know I'm gonna get out of here, eventually. How am I going to tell my children about this story. That brings a certain amount of distance. And it allows you to have control of where it is. So when you want to give up...when you want to say I want to panic, just go, how will I be telling my grandchild...because I will get through this. How do I tell my 12 year old grandchild, that I went through a pandemic, and I lost my job, and I had friends that died. But this is what I did. And I kept going. So the stoics, use two different framings. If it's a short term, use comedic if we're going to be in it for a battle, a war, frame it so that you, you describe who you are older, telling your children that, which I thought was pretty cool. What's your thoughts on that?
Actually, that is kind of transcendent to a bunch of different scenarios. I mean, I can remember before, before we had kids, right? You just thought there's the idea the concept of kids these little people that you have no idea you don't think of them really necessarily as a piece of you because they don't exist yet. They're just it's a concept. I'm a kid, I'm a kid to my parents, right? So then suddenly you have them and you go kind of through a little bit. I think most people do a little bit of a panic phase, like, what do I do with this very, very fragile thing? Then when the interaction begins, you kind of learn a little bit about each other. You quickly realize that you're creating memories. And I thought back to my parents, and how I wanted to be able to tell my kids how cool my parents were to me. But I started thinking, I want them to say how good of a dad I am to them.
So you automatically so you you're you're a very funny guy. So you automatically comedically frame things and you automatically have this story timeline. And you did it with two generations. That's awesome. Think about my dad. How I was perceived by that? I want my kids to do this. You do it naturally. That may be one of the reasons why you're you're perpetually happy.
I don't know, I guess so my, my parents were both kind of like that they can they can both tell stories about their families from two or three generations back as if they were almost there. And obviously they weren't right. But they and it's usually the funny stories that make its way up. Right. No. And who wants to tell the the bummers? They if those people are part of this narrative they usually probably don't show up that much. But it make yeah, I don't know. It's kind of weird. But you you begin to frame things around the idea of what do I want them to carry forward because that ultimately will shape the way that you're handling the situation of this.
100% so that comes very natural to you. Now I'm going to tell you one that probably is not natural to you, but is intrinsic to me, which is interesting. We've both had some loss, and for whatever reason, this particular practice grounds me and the stoics call it practice negativism. So what you just described was this positive thing I want to create this thing. It's much harder to think about, but when you get really down on something, or if you get or if you're starting to get down on something, then imagine that it's not there and what your life would be, but not like imagine a little bit like get deep into it. So imagine what it would be like if my spouse died. And just go, no, not like, but like, think about like, it's a form of meditation is what it is. So you stop for a few moments and you think about this. I hate my job. What would it be like if I was unemployed? What would it be like if I was broke and had no job? I'm really upset at my spouse. What would it be like if your spouse was deceased, and that person did not exist? And it's an interesting thing because what it does, if you, if you really think about it, then when you see your spouse, you're just like, loving you like because every day could be the last day sort of philosophy. And you this is something that a lot of people don't like, but for some reason it resonates with me because I've had loss. And I sometimes think, you know, the job was tough today, but what if I didn't have a job? And oh shit COVID showed up, but I didn't have a job. Now I'm like, I miss my job. I miss it. I want to go back.
No, that that is I don't, I won't say I have never done that. But you're right. That does not come quite naturally to me to just basically you're saying to find something that's bothering me today and just okay, well, now it doesn't exist at all. Now, where are you?
Yeah, now Where are you? Cuz you'd be surprised because a lot of times that person that you think is annoying is really important in your life. That job that you are frustrated with is necessary in your life. Regardless, the goal here is to reframe so that you can take control, even if you don't agree with it. All it is taking a step back and going, these emotions are making me stressed, anxious, and so on. So that I'm gonna take a step back and I'm gonna reframe the stoics call this reframing so that you can control that. So that is the stoic philosophy of how to do this. And, like, the stoic philosophy that I have garnered, that helps me.
Sure. That makes sense, though.
And you're already doing it, which is interesting.
What can I say?
Yeah. All right. So one of the things that a few employees approached me and there's some people that are, well, they're having straight up panic attacks, straight up panic attacks right now people are flipping out and so I want to talk about why panic and anxiety is bad and as somebody who probably has a mild form? Or it could be a horrible form of panic disorder, but I have always been on the curve of having more anxiety than just being a chill chill person, let's put it that way. I think you are a little more chill. I'm a little more on the uptight, anxious side. And so I want to talk about that, like why panic and anxiety serve zero purpose.
Right? And they, and they do, I don't, I really don't know what to make of them. It's not something that's really not something I've ever been accused of is being overly anxious or panicky, or someone who gets unnecessarily worked up. That's not really my thing. I don't know.
Yeah. And that's a wonderful thing. And I was talking with one of our employees on Wednesday, and she was telling me that she has panic attacks and her daughter is starting to have panic attacks. And she would I loved it because she's like, I'll handle mine. But watching my daughter have a panic attack, I need to find some ways to get her out of it. So that's how come I started thinking about this. I'm like, I'm gonna do a podcast on this and we're gonna
And I believe they're legitimate. No doubt it's it's, uh, I just wish I wish I had more sympathy, not only empathy for the position because I don't really, I don't know. I think that when I feel something kind of getting a little out of control, then I well, my dad got sick. I knew what was going to end up happening. But I prepared myself for the bad parts of what was happening with my dad is he was dying from cancer. And I compartmentalized the bad part of being the biology of cancer, and how he couldn't out run him and when we're, nobody would outrun it really where he was. The flip of it was is it left me with all the good parts which were just hanging out with him and talking about the times that we had together the memories and just kind of reliving some things together, which was great. But I didn't, I didn't associate my time or my conversations with him while just constantly thinking about his cancer, we, we just talked about the fun shit that we had done.
So I truly believe that your father had that framing mechanism in place because I know that he was in pain, but I know that he probably met with you and said, I want to be remembered like this. I don't want to be remembered in certain ways. So when you would tell me about that, even in the last few days, you guys had a great relationship. And he grew up remembering somebody else he grew up remembering tell the story so it can be told again. So I think that's cool. But for somebody that doesn't have this and if you have this I feel for you because been there. I looked up a guy named Ethan Cross and He is an expert in this and he is an expert in how emotion regulates planning. So we're in an era where a lot of people are experiencing anxiety that they've never experienced before. And it's new to them. So when you have anxiety what happens is you will over focus on something and have poor decision making. You're less logical. It's one of the reasons why everyone else brought bought all the toilet paper. I mean, what the heck, that was crazy. There's just no reason for that. We don't have a shortage of it they're there. But they didn't sit there and think, oh, in the pantry, I'm lacking this and this and this. They panicked, they went there. And this is what happens. When you're over focused on a threat there's no mental space to work on a higher level. So if you're all which is good, if you're being chased by a saber toothed tiger, it's bad if the threat's not leaving. Does that make sense?
100% I mean, so, in an instant, it's okay to have quick panic. But but prolonged panic is dangerous. I agree with that.
Prolonged panic. Prolonged anxiety does one thing and you know this and we've talked about this on other shows. It's the fight or flight system, which means your sympathetic nervous system kicks in when the sympathetic nervous system kicks in, that leads to chronic inflammation, chronic inflammation leads to biological systems shutting down that leads to your immune system wearing out so if there's anything you're gonna get out of this, it's that when you're panicked, you're predisposing yourself to the things that you're panicked about.
What do you think that what do you think the correlation then would be between somebody who's experiencing chronic chronic anxiety or I don't know, frequent panic attacks and a lack of sleep? I mean,
It's all of the above. So that's what this is about. That's what I want to talk about is as somebody who's had significant anxiety, I mean, I grew up as a stutterer. I had I answered a question on a Reddit thing where somebody said, If anybody's ever stuttered, what have you, what would you recommend? And I was like I, I did for the first 20 years of my life, and I worked through it, I tried to do it. And my anxiety led to stuttering. And then I realized I can, I will never stop stuttering unless I get control of the anxiety. And the anxiety is a thing because ultimately, you have to have emotional regulation. Everybody's flipping out right now you have to have the ability to align how you feel to how you want to feel. So if you're panicking, you need to have the skills to say, I'm panicking. I want to be in a better place. You're not trying to turn it off. You're just trying to reign it in. Like right now, it's almost impossible to shut it off completely. You can't be that like we were talking earlier about the stoics. They're not turning off their emotions. What you're doing is you're trying to make sense of it. What this is doing is having some skills to try and have emotional regulation. Because having some anxiety is important. If we didn't have some anxiety, we would have zero social distancing. And we would have a pandemic beyond any proportion. And we know this is bigger than anything that's ever happened in most people's lifetimes. So having some anxiety is important. It helps us help each other. But I want to talk about two really cool techniques. I'm going to call these brain hacks backed by science. So these brain hacks backed by science. So the first one that this guy Ethan Cross has written about is psychological distancing. And I think this is super cool. Because you and I do it to each other all the time. When we work together. We show up we're like, hey man, what would you do with this? And it's a problem that I can't fix. You're out that I throw it to you. You shopped work, and you're like, I'm kind of torn with this MAC gauge this what school blah, blah, whatever whatever thing that you're emotionally tied to, you go to a third person, and you're trying to get a different perspective. And so it's that it's that, that third person perspective, because the person you're talking to, essentially is somebody that doesn't have or they don't have the emotional baggage associated with it. So going back to the original thing, when you're anxious, you can't use your full prefrontal cortex to make a decision. Part of your reptilian brain is going, ah, I don't want my son to go to the wrong school. Ah, I want this ah, or anything, you know, everything that you're emotional about. So you go to a friend and you go, oh, I never thought of it that way. That's odd.
What what's what key thing applies to everyone all over the place. planet who, who ultimately will go and get advice on it, and that is finances, financial advice, our emotion is tied up with our belongings, our ownings, our homes are things that we want to invest in our vacations, etc. But the reason why over more and more time financial advisors have become such a great person to help us is because they can look at your finances without bias without emotion. And they can help you actually probably achieve more of what you want, actually, emotionally by showing you logically, how to move and utilize the money that you're bringing in. That's a really cool thing that you just highlighted there on how you wouldthrow that to a third person. That makes sense to me.
It makes total sense, right? So they've done incredible studies on this. So this guy Ethan Cross is the head of the emotion regulation department at University of Michigan, and they've done lots of studies that you're not going to believe this. When you mentally refer to yourself in the third person, you can be more objective. They did studies where they took people and they said, we want you to apply for your dream job. And you're going to be graded, you're going to be evaluated by a team of judges. But they took half the people and they said, I, they had no idea what they were doing. They signed up for a volunteer thing. Apparently, public speaking is more stressful than pain. So like you don't shock people or things like that. So they were, they said, you have 10 minutes to prepare a public speech. You're going to go in front of judges, you're going to be filmed, and you're going to be critiqued on this. They took half of them and they said we want you to start with I am going to give a speech which will determine the course of my life. The other half. Eric is going to give a speech or Ken is going to give a speech you refer to yourself in the third person. All right, Ken, you're going to give a speech. It's going to change your life. Let's see if we can do this. Shockingly, they did an incredible job when you can separate yourself and refer to yourself in the third person. So even though you go to somebody else, psychologically, linguistically, when you say Ken, how am I going to handle this COVID crisis? Okay, Ken, you're on call. You just got 10 consults. We got this using these words. internally. Don't say it out loud. Because people will find you weird that's the only thing
What are you doing here? I'm here to watch Eric do some stuff. He's pretty good guy.
Yeah, just out loud. Be like Ken's scoping like a beast now watch Ken take this polyp out. Yeah, no, yeah, don't do that. But it is certainly a technique. And so there's something that's kind of cool about that. Where it you separate yourself and you take control of your emotions. I am not experiencing this. Ken you're going through this problem? How are you going to figure it out? It's a very unique psychological thing that has been proven in multiple studies. So little hack. When I start when things start getting way out of control, mentally, it's all right Ken, we're sitting in this podcast and this thing is shitting the bed. What do we do now?
No I do I find that to be useful. It makes sense to me, but I won't say it out loud kind of like you recommended I think.
Yeah please don't but you can actually do that with like, he was talking about like in children's learning. If you have a child that struggles with doing homework and stuff, don't go up to them and say, why aren't you able to do this? Just go hey, how would Batman handle this?
Let me ask you a question. So when when you were an intern and you are working, I know that you did er work do you remember how you watched yourself run your first code? Remember that?
Oh yes, yeah, totally.
I kind of remember getting into a system where it wasn't that I wasn't present, but it felt like I was watching myself do the training right? And systematically just calling for the things just as I had learned, but and really more of how I memorize to go through the own algorithm they taught us to do and so when I asked for things where I needed someone to chart something, or if we needed to met or we needed to change team members or anything else like that, it's a really calm conversation. It's not really heightened. It's not screened, I think we've both been a part of some, some codes that have not together but codes to get that have been kind of in disarray or kind of crazy. Yeah, those those are not desirable. you need you need to be able to have someone kind of run the code that knows what the next part is, is being that part or playing that role for I kind of just saw myself doing it rather than I'm doing it. Does that make sense?
Oh it makes total sense. My first code at the VA when I was an intern code happened. A little voice next to me was just like, you know, you got this stay calm. It's time for Epi. All right, let's go ahead and do this. And let's do that. And I thought it was me. But it was the it was the senior nurse next to me the whole time. I was like, my inner voice is awesome. But basically, it was a cool, established VA nurse going do epi do this.
Was it a guy or a girl?
No, it was a girl. It was Janice and she was awesome. And I learned early on that they knew way more than I did. So I just did what they said.
Well I didn't know if you thought that you just had a really sexy voice to...
Alright. So to make sure that we stay within the 30 minute time zone here, we got to keep moving. All right. So technique number two, is temporal distancing. We kind of heard about that last time the stoics use this, basically don't think how you feel now. But how will you feel two years from now? I mean, we're in this COVID crisis, right? If I look at you and Eric, I'm like, Eric, we're gonna get through this. There's going to be vaccines, there's going to be herd immunity. There's gonna be antibody testing. We're gonna be able to fix that.
You're gonna be there are gonna be answers.
Yeah, there's going to be answers. The stoats took it to a new level where they said, think about the next generation and how you're going to tell your grandchild. Ethan Cross is talking about no, just think about it, like in two years from now. So you can integrate the both so right now what I'm telling myself is, Ken we're going to get through this in two years we will be stronger. So it is a we being all of us are going to be part of this. Ken, I'm talking to myself objectively and we know that this language is a conduit to control your emotions. The language is a conduit to control your emotions. So my final hack on how to do this, so we went through the stoic philosophy, we went to the Ethan cross, how to do these linguistic things in your head? Well, then I put it all together. And I realized, you know that I've been trying to have a prior to all this whenever we when I actually had free time, when I was working full time and had more time. I tried to teach myself some neuro linguistic programming NLP, right, and that's what Tony Robbins does. That's what some of these great motivational speakers do. And one of the things is that if you are prone to panic attacks, then you have the ability to linguistically train your brain to bring yourself back down and there is a technique called anchoring. Do you know what anchoring is? Did we ever talk about that?
I do remember, the gentleman that visited with us in Arizona briefly talked about that, but that honestly, I don't know anymore. Oh, wait, wait. It's an emotion that you tie back to a sensation or something like that, like you pinch something when something occurs or maybe you make tap yourself on a knee. It's like a Pavlovian thing with the...something is that right?
Look at the big brain on Eric. Yes, absolutely. So as it turns out, it and you can do this if you're listening to this or any of my panic attack listeners. You this is another slightly meditative technique, but it is a mind training technique. And so if you can think about an emotion so Eric, tell me about a happy memory.
Oh, tell you about a happy memory. A goodness gracious. I remember.
I mean a deeply emotional happ...like when you think about it, you just immediately just go, man, that was awesome. Yellowstone. I mean, you've you've told me so many stories.
Like I don't want to give too much credence to one of...the young one I can still remember without question when I when my dad and my mom got me a drum set. My dad taught me how to play drums and then one, one Christmas Day, then I had one and I was pumped. And I knew that I was tying myself to that instrument forever. And I loved that moment.
So if you practice and you stop and meditate on that moment, and what I mean by meditate, it's not like a difficult thing. Just stop, cut everything out and think about it. And then put a physical tie to it and I'm not an NLP specialist, but this is what I've done. So when I want to get amped up and get happy, I hit my chest, which is what I believe Tony Robbins does. So I have a particular memory in my head where when I'm want to get myself revved up, you're going to go on stage, you're gonna give a speech, you're going to do something where you want to be really revved up. I hit myself in that emotion because I've practiced it allows me to amp up my my mood immediately no matter what I'm in, because you've trained your brain to do that. So when you sit there and think about this, and you just go okay, I'm a little down now, I want to be up, then you they talk about anything, anything you do that is not too obvious. So the neuro linguistic people talk about touching their fingers together. They talk about that I hit myself because I want to make it obvious to me. So when I want to amp up, I hit here and my memory is of a very exciting memory. That's called anchoring. And if you want to calm down, then you think of another memory that is very tranquil. So my memory when I want to calm down is me and my family in Barcelona, Spain, eating at a Michelin star rated restaurant with young kids and we're killing it. And every single time I get super stressed, and I just think, oh my god, it's overwhelming. I can't do this. I rub my thigh and I just see my family in front of me. And we're eating this incredible meal. And we're in Barcelona, Spain. And it's really hard to be anxious and calm at the same time. And if I'm not there again, so that's what anchoring technique is. So it is something that has to be practiced. Yeah, I'm not saying anchoring. Like wolf of Wallstreet, like, umbaumba, that was a little too much anchoring with some. I just realized I was hitting my chest and I was like, that's not a little Matthew McConaughey right there. I need to step it down a bit. Not that I mean anchoring in a different way, where like I rub that. So if you're anxious and prone to panic, there's this technique called anchoring. And if you need it now, then there's these, these are the things that I use physically in moments that I try to make sure that if I'm aware of it, and then there's the whole breathing techniques, meditation, exercise, emotional gratitude, all these other things that are out there. But those are all practices. Those are all things that seemed general. What I wanted to do today was say, this is what I do to try and stay calm that anybody can do. And that's kind of where I'm at with it. And what I want the next episode to be is for our soldiers, our frontline workers.
Oh, yeah.
Because the next episode will be about long term safety. I want to dedicate the next episode to our frontline workers. Eric, would you please describe what we're doing for our frontline workers right now,
Man, it's as this is incredibly exciting. So just huge kudos to to you Ken because for a really really long time, you've known the benefits of polyphenols. And we've had all this research just kind of sitting on the fringe and huge thanks also to Angie for always giving us new updates. But the the pandemic just thrust us right into the middle of we've got to start swimming through this information. And then as you began to assemble it, suddenly with the help of of Angie really digging through and finding some cool stuff. We found that the polyphenols themselves actually function as great natural antivirals and anti microbials. And it just so happens that we have polyphenols and Atrantil and it just so happens that we want to give back to people that are fighting hard for all of us. So we have a pilot program where for the people that are working in a role where they happen to be a frontline worker or frontline healthcare worker, they can simply go to Atrantil.com/frontline, let us know that. And then they tell us where they work. And we'll send them a complimentary bottle for a month. But even more than that, keep them up to date with the latest in research out applies to them, and then hopefully begin to recruit some other healthcare institutions. To help us spread this it's this is not an opportunity for us to to make money this is an opportunity for us to hopefully keep healthcare workers available to us, not just for COVID if it happens to come back, but in the future, when the next pandemic occurs when the next new virus makes its debut. We want to see if we can't make a difference and help people naturally and what better way then to arm the people they will take care of the sick.
Yeah, absolutely. And once again, we as we always stayed on this show this, this show is not about to give medical advice. We're not here to tell you what to do. Talk to your doctor about everything. This is a show of information. And what we're trying to say here is we are not making any claims. We are not saying that we can do anything but the science speaks for itself. We are talking about the class of molecules called polyphenols. And these polyphenols have been shown to improve immunity. They've been shown to improve gut health. They've been shown to decrease inflammation they've been shown to mitigate cytokine release all these other things, which is why we sat there as a team, the KBS research team that developed Atrantil and I was very honored to be part of a company that I'm very honored to be part of an office that didn't furlough anybody. I'm very honored to be part of a company that said we are willing to front the costs on this and help the frontline workers. Because I'm on it. My kids are on it. My staff is on it. And we're I I have a motral obligation to say why and the you know, the reason why is because we've got science that backs it. We're gonna have this polyphenol page that will actually show it. So, next episode is going to be dedicated to the frontline workers and we're going to talk about cool things like what's your decontamination routine? I'm asking everybody so if you know anybody that is in healthcare or if you watch this show, hit us up. Tell me what your decontamination routine is. I know that Laura your your partner crna she's got a cool thing which comes in the garage and she's got a robe there and she gets naked, puts the robe on, puts the clothes in a bag, shoves it in the wash, doesn't hug her kids goes to the goes to the shower decontaminates and does this and there's a whole process a decontamination station. We want to put everybody's best advice together. Next episode will be our frontline worker heroes episode. How do we help you to help everyone else because you guys are amazing. Oh, shoot, Eric, you're amazing. You're a frontline worker, Look at you.
Yeah, I don't want to take credit like that. I mean, because because Laura still spins significant time in the hospital system also. And full disclosure, I really don't have to do that that much anymore. I did for a long time and you know, avenue different avenues take us different places and then it's number one, thank you, but you actually put in a little bit more time in the hospital. I don't want to take credit away from those who are actually getting just, you know, much much more exposure and braving much choppier waters than myself.
Oh dude, Stu and I were talking about that, you know, he's from New York and he's got, you know, when his friends do rotations and they think they might be exposed, they don't go home to their spouses, they go get a hotel room. That's brutal. I mean, that's, that's honorable, but when you're in it, I mean, you know, I'm just it's, I'm just happy that maybe we can at least improve somebody's gut health to improve their immune system. That's what I'm hoping for, maybe, because I'm seeing data from Argentina and Italy and different places that these molecules can do more.
Definitely. That would be it would be, it would be awesome. We have a long way to go before we get to the end of the road on what's to be discovered in natural supplementation and how it can actually benefit us.
Yeah, it's super cool. So this is awesome. This is our first abbreviated podcast, we went. We were aiming for 28 minutes, we went 32 minutes a little overboard. So it's, it seems like you and I can't do anything with that, but it's important. It's an hour's worth of material. Because I'm looking at the clock and I'm like, wow, we're an hour. So it is what it is. So just to recap Episode Five is all about coping and being happy. Learn from our Greek stoics. There's different techniques, you can listen to the episode on that. You can also sit there and reframe things, make it comedic, make it timeline, practice a little bit of negative negativism, so that you will miss the things and if you're anxious and panicked, you will not think right. And ultimately neuro linguistic programming will help you stay calm, a little different from what we normally talk about, but I think it's important.
I think it's important to most of all, be safe, like and share. Come back and see us. Hug your family. Tell them that you love them. And we'll hopefully see you soon with some great info. Thank you so much for tuning in.
Absolutely. Eric, thank you so much for everything that you do as a crna because you're you're intubating people and stuff you're right there. So thank you for what you do.
Well thank you for what you do and making certain that we have have awesome opportunities to explore some science that may just benefit everyone. So I appreciate it.
And I want to thank Angie Cook for everything she does for us.
Heck yeah and and you know, while we're giving shout outs are going to be home. You were talking I know we're going a little bit longer here, but you were talking about stuttering.
No, we're pretty much doing our normal time.
Yeah, we're doing our normal stuff. Since since Ken brought up his stuttering if anybody was paying attention we lost a great icon. Right the very beginning of this pandemic and that was Bill Withers and he had a stuttering problem growing up also. And if you're just interested in just want to get caught up on his story, go to Amazon Prime I know has it you can probably find it somewhere else if you don't want to shop with Amazon. But look for his video version of still bill documentary. And that's named after one of his albums named still bill but. Incredible recap of this man who did not care about the fame as much as he just wanted to make great music he just wanted to write songs I mean he was...an awesome documentary. So still bill fought until the day that he died to help kiddos who suffered from stuttering and just really, really cool. So great pick me up anyway.
All right, everybody, Episode Number COVID five a little more lighthearted. Thank you for everything that you do all our frontline workers, tune in next week. Share this with anybody who works in the hospital system because we're going to go around and work diligently to figure out how to protect everyone.
Alright, y'all take care.
Bye bye.
Hey, what's up everybody? Here we are on our COVID files 4.5. That means a point five we have our recurring super smart guests, my friend and colleague, Dr. Stuart Ackerman. Dr. Ackerman, would you please introduce yourself?
Sure, Ken. Thanks for having me again. It's my name's Stuart Ackerman. I'm a gastroenterologist with digestive health associates of Texas. And we're glad that I'm here again to discuss more COVID type stuff.
So on Dr. Ackerman and I did a COVID 3.5 Episode three and a half episode where we looked into the role of COVID in the digestive tract. Today, we're going to look at some journals and discuss the role of COVID-19 testing specifically the role of antibodies, and you're going to be hearing a lot about this. And so a lot of the shows that we're doing, we're a little ahead of the media. So that's what I'm really happy about is that every time we do a show, and then later the media kind of catches up, so. The one thing I do want to address and if you're watching this on YouTube, Dr. Ackerman, you've changed your look a little bit. I mean, you had this very beautiful luscious beard, you know Wolverine like and it's a little different is that because you're getting all the notoriety from the show or what's going on?
Yeah, some sacrifices have to be made. So, as part of my practice, you know, although there's some restrictions because of COVID on doing procedures and seeing patients in person, I still I still have a significant number of emergency and urgent procedures that needs to be done and part of the protocol as recommended by all of our societies is that you've got to wear PPE these protective equipment and some of that is an N95 mask and an N95 mask when it goes over your your mouth and your nose, it doesn't fit to securely if you've got luscious locks like I did. So sacrifices needed to be made.
So Dr. Ackerman did this really cool video where he's basically explained the whole process of this, and how certain sacrifices have to be made. So I suggest everybody go to his website. What is your website?
It's www.stuartakermanmd.com Stuart Akerman dot com
You posted the video on your website, I hope.
Yeah, it's posted on my blog on the website.
That's awesome. I love the video. It's so cool. All right. So when you and I were discussing about doing this, and what I like is that you and I talk all the time. And we discuss journals and we do stuff and we kind of debate a little bit and we poke each other and you were you were discussing that, you know, hey, we should do a show on this. Do you want to do like a point counterpoint kind of thing where we should debate and I laughed because I immediately thought of airplane the movie from 1980 you're way too young for this but the airplane.
I've done I've googled it.
They were doing point CounterPoint. And you know, the whole point of the show is to be so obscenely on either end where the one guy so, a CRNA Jack Kerry that I'm not sure if you know him. Have you met jack? So jack would always laugh, he would use that quote whenever something would happen in the in our endoscopy center. If maybe the scopes weren't ready or a patient showed up late or something got off track, he would always say the same thing which I started thinking about about this. In the point counterpoint in airplane, the CounterPoint guy was like, they bought the ticket, they knew what they were getting into, I say, let him crash. This is not going to be quite like that. Because I think you and I will end up in the same spot ultimately when we're discussing this. So that's kind of where I thought where you and I were hoping to have a kind of a point CounterPoint. But I think we're gonna end up in the same spot. You kind of agree?
Yeah, I agree. I think that it's, it's good to sort of flush out both sides of the argument so that you're more well rounded in your discussion. And I think that's kind of how we approach it, you know, that, we're we're looking at the same data. We're drawing our own conclusions, and sort of coming out on both sides of the argument. I think that's, that's good for any kind of evidence based discussion.
Totally. And what we're going to talk about today is something that is super important, because it is how do we get the economy back on track? How do we use testing to do it? And we're going to take a look at the evidence based approach to this. And in fact, this is coming so fast that this morning I woke up, and I saw a couple different articles that that came out this morning. One of them was an article on a homeless shelter in Boston. And what they decided to do is do PCR testing on everyone in the homeless shelter, and what they found was that 36% of the people were positive at that moment, and we're gonna discuss what that moment means. So 33% were positive, but only 7.5% admitted to having a cough and only .7 even had a fever. The conclusion was in this article was holy cow, we need to do mass testing so that we can see who's really been infected. And then almost on cue, a New York Times article came out today, where it was a journalist that he opens with a with a classic Mark Moran. I'm a comedy fan Mark Moran line, where the the journalist says, "I know a guy. And because I know a guy and the connections I have, I was able to get my hands on a rapid antibody test. And I took the test, and I was negative. The problem is, I'm not sure it was a valid test." I'm like, this could not have been in a better time this guy did this. And that's what we're going to talk about today. You and I know guys.
Yeah, we know people and this is the national and international discussion. Now if you've at all been watching the news, or reading papers or going on Reddit, you know that Italy, Spain, the United States to some degree, they're all discussing this idea of how do we figure out who has immunity? Is there a way for us to figure out who can safely come out of their homes, go back to work, and sort of jumpstart the economy again and jumpstart life? And it sounds dystopian. It sounds like it could be a great idea, it could be a terrible idea and anything in between. But what we don't have is we don't we don't necessarily know the details yet. And I think that's, that's what gets everyone confused, because there's no shortage of media outlets touting this as you know, the next great idea, but is it? I don't know.
Well, we're gonna we're gonna get into that I there was an article written by I don't remember who wrote this, but it was just this just happened in the last couple days about ending the lockdown. And they interviewed a Harvard epidemiologist, and he said, well any of the lockdowns are going to be an effort with trial and error. There is no scientific evidence to this, he's like the best I can say this is we're all in a life raft. I'm not sure how we get to shore yet. What we're going to talk about is possibly how to get to shore. Because if you think about it, governments around the world, they need to triangulate the health of the people, the freedom of the population, and there's no scientific consensus. So what I wanted to do today with you, because you're a super smart guy, much smarter than me, let's kick some science. Let's go over some articles, and then play the pros and cons of each side of it. So I'll throw it back in your court. Where do you want to start with this?
So I think, you know, we, we have a few articles that we definitely want to discuss as the basis for the arguments about immunity. I think before we jump into it, just to get a better sense for our viewers, we need to explain some of the terminology and the differences between the testing methods to understand what best to use to acutely diagnose someone with COVID-19 versus how do we tell that they're no longer infected, they're no longer sick and whether or not or at least to start that discussion of whether or not they have immunity.
Absolutely. So let's start with what is the standard test being done when somebody shows up with a fever to an emergency room?
So the standard testing when you're trying to figure out is this person currently infected and sick or...not sick, we know they're sick they're there is something called PCR testing. So in PCR testing, we actually will try to replicate the virus, right? The implication being that you gotta have virus in order to replicate it. So a negative test means there's nothing there to replicate. And therefore, you might have a fever, you might have some chills, you might have a cough, but you don't have COVID-19. On the flip side to that, if you start replicating virus, the virus has to be there. By definition, if a virus is there, you have viral infection. So PCR testing has been considered the gold standard for diagnosis of COVID-19 at this point.
And let's talk about the what we did talk about on our last show the kind of pros and cons of that, because what we're learning. And what is fascinating is we're here today, what is the date? April, April 16, to April 16 2020. I mean, we may be eating crow tomorrow, because everybody, this is all changing. But what we're learning now is that a lot of people, I was listening, I don't remember who the virologist was, but he was describing the actual process. If you've had this swab done, it's not very comfortable, they get in there they try and get the cells that try and do this...it...there is some sampling error issues with this and possibly it's not in the back of the throat. We discussed how possibly could be in the stool. So there are some limitations to that particular PCR testing, and a lot of the studies we're going to refer to look at comparison to PCR.
Correct. And so with this study is that in order to mitigate that risk for false negatives, they'll swab multiple areas and multiple sites to try to decrease that risk of missing a potentially positive person just because of sampling error.
It's funny you say that because now after our last episode, and I'm pretty sure that they listened to our episode and this is why they did this because...
I can only assume
I can only assume that, that there's a Chinese doctor that saying that we should probably swab the anus and those that have recovered to determine if they have PCR positive. So before somebody is released from the hospital swab their anus,
Yeah, right, I think fewer people are going to go to the hospital. We probably shouldn't publicize that.
Um, you know, so the PCR testing now explain what the antibody testing is.
So, when we talk about antibody response, and you might have heard a lot about this, you know, the buzz words are IGM and IGG. These are the two immunoglobulins that we talked about with infection. And once you have an infection in order to mount a response, that's really what we're talking about. And IGM is the immunoglobulin that comes up first. That's kind of the, the acute fighter for you to try to get the infection under control. And then once you're sort of getting to a point where you're starting to go towards recovery, you start creating idg and idg are more like your your memory, right? That's what that's what reminds your body and how to fight something. So when we talk about vaccinations, where we're actually providing immunity to people, what we really are doing is either providing directly IGG or giving what's called a live attenuated virus a small kind of stunted virus so that your body will see it react and create its own IGG. If I have encapsulate this in one sentence so that you remember the difference between IGM and IGG? I would say that IGM is what wins the battle for you. But IGG is what wins the war.
I love that. I've never heard it. Did you...did you just, I mean, Is this yours?
Yeah, that's a shower thought.
I love that. You're exactly right. So, a lot of people if you've ever been checked for epstein barr virus, which is a very common thing. epstein barr virus will usually have an IGM and an IGG and people will realize that most of us are IGG positive, we've been exposed, which means you saw the virus and you carry these antibodies throughout your life. That is a I love the battle war thing that is awesome.
I just think it's an easy way to remember it. And you know, similarly, you know, if you go to have a new patient visit at a primary care doctor and they say to you, well, have you been vaccinated for hep B? Have you been vaccinated for varicella, which is chickenpox. You're like, I don't know, I don't have that little card from when I was five years old. They're going to run some blood tests. And those blood tests are just checking for the varicella IGG and that and certain Hepatitis B IGG is because if you've got them, you're you're good. And if you don't you need either vaccination or boosters, right, because sometimes you might be immune, but that immunity can wane.
We're seeing that with varicella. So we're seeing people actually, co host Eric Rieger developed shingles.
Oh, wow.
And it happens. It's happening to a lot of 40 year olds, a reoccurrence of varicalla, it's happening and so that we got into a long discussion about that when him and I were in Hawaii because he were in Hawaii, and he had a bad shingles outbreak which sort of limits going to the beach.
Yeah.
But it was all it was all kind of related to that. So yeah, that is a great explanation IGM wins the war. So basically, your your innate immunity The virus comes in your body reacts to it cytokines, they send white blood cells, they kill whatever, hopefully they kill whatever it is. And then they take it back to memory cells that say, look, next time this guy invades the house, make sure that we kill it before it causes any damage like it did this time. And that is initially they go, okay, we're going to send out some early troops, IGM, just in case it's out there, just look for this guy, they get a card, they have a picture, and they go out and then they mobilize the IGG which says you guys are our reserves that you will remember this picture, hopefully for the rest of your life. And if this invader comes back, you go out and handle it.
Yeah. And you know, now that now that we understand that I think we can we can jump into some of these articles. And I think...yeah sorry.
I was thinking...before we get into the deep aspects of these these other articles, I I was very impressed with when I threw out the Macaque study at you, and you're like, yeah, did you really read it? I'm like I read the abstract. This is a great example of what I did scientifically poorly, which was I read the abstract, and I've been quoting this article. And then you're like, yeah, read the whole article. So in the abstract, and not to sabotage where you were going, but I just want to do this that this is why we need to dive deep into the journals, because in the abstract, they described recently has been reported that discharged patients in China and elsewhere were testing positive after recovering. However, it remains unclear whether the convalescing patients have a risk of relapse or reinfection. So what they did is they gave COVID-19 to Macaque monkeys, they don't say how many they don't discuss anything. What they say is after the symptoms were alleviated, and the specific antibody tested positively, that positively the half of the infected monkeys were re-challenged half of the infected notably neither viral loads in nasal pharyngeal and anal swabs along timeline nor viral replication in all primary tissue at five days post infection was found in reexposed monkeys. And then you said to me yesterday, why don't you read the rest of the article?
Right? Because if you I mean, we'll get into this in a little more detail in a couple minutes. But, you know, sort of a spoiler. This is the study. This is the study that's been quoted as the basis for immunity testing and talking about giving people immunity cards because it it's a it's a solid proof that immunity exists and you can't get reinfected. And if you read the abstract and you listen to all the pundits, you would think they they herded every monkey they had in China and created a cohort of thousands. In reality, when you read the study, they had four monkeys.
They reinfected half.
They reinfected two. So, not to say that the data is not valid, but you know, you have to have it with a grain of salt the size of the Rock of Gibraltar, you know?
Yeah. So after I read it, I was like, oh, man, he wasn't kidding. And then they reinfected the two. And then they sacrificed them. And they call them adult Macaques. So then I went down a rabbit hole, typical Google rabbit hole. As it turns out, Macaques can live 20 to 30 years. The average age of these adults were three to five years. So
Right younger, you know, theoretically healthier,
Theoretically healthier, much younger, preteens or teen style adults. And I get it that we don't want to sacrifice a whole bunch of macaque monkeys. I'd rather not sacrifice any animal or anything and have some sort of other way to test this. But this is just a great example of the media using this article me using the article and other you know, when Eric and I were talking on another episode I was bringing this up, I'm so thank you for pointing that out to me because that has to be you have to look at the articles and that's what we're going to do today is let's let's dive so I'm gonna throw it in you wherever you want to go with it, run with it, and I'll try and keep up.
Alright, so before we hit that study, and we definitely want to talk about that because it's the it's the basis for the whole argument. There's there was a study or data set really published by the Chinese CDC, about the Wuhan experience, and I think it's good just to just to hear the numbers. So basically...
Is it this one?
Correct.
Okay, great. Yeah. So this is the viewpoint characteristic of and important lessons from the Coronavirus 2019 outbreak in China is the title of the article.
Yeah. and these and these numbers are current as of February which is at the end of the curve in Wuhan so they are completely valid numbers, you know, that they published. So they had 72,314 cases of COVID-19. And, you know, 62% of those were confirmed with some sort of testing. You know, a lot of those numbers came from people who just had the right clinical syndrome because, you know, much like us, they didn't have enough testing to go around, they weren't able to get all the testing at the same time. So, you know, some of those numbers are the people who were admitted and treated and may have been on ventilators but didn't have a confirmed diagnosis. But it seemed pretty likely that that that they were sick with COVID-19 and 3% of them were in advanced age of over 87. An 87%, though, fell into that 30 to 79 age range, with only 8% of the confirmed cases being younger than 30. So, you know most people fell into that fat part of the age distribution, with a very small percentage of them being on opposite ends of the young or old spectrum. Of the disease and this is where it gets really important. 81% of the cases were mild, right? So you might have had some sniffles, you might have not felt so great. But you didn't end up right, we get worried, right? We talk about ventilator shortages, we talk about, you know, overrunning the capacity of the hospitals. But the vast majority, four out of five, didn't really have much symptoms, if any. Severe cases-14% right, those are your hospitalized patients. And critical the ones that are new upper ventilators are 5%. So you know, if you break down the numbers, it's a very, it's not insignificant, but I think much like is the case in general we sensationalized the worst cases, and we got to be careful about falling into that trap.
You know, just for that. I mean, right before we hopped on the call here, I had a friend call me because his father is very sick with COVID-19. So when we say that 80% of the people don't get sick If you're if you have a personal relationship, or it's you, that's 100% of the most important thing that's going on. And that's what's scary is the high infectivity rate of this. And in this in this article, the thing that stuck out to me was COVID-19 rapidly spread from a single city to the entire country in 30 days. And now we have a worldwide pandemic. So even though it's a small, the majority of people will have mild symptoms. But when you take into the account of the people that do get sick, that's how come we're taking it so seriously, but where you're going is how do we get that 80% back to work?
Right. Right. And and also just having that knowledge that you know, we'd much prefer you don't get sick, but if you do, don't panic.
Yeah. Yeah, everything is everything in the media right now is really bad. I've been talking to a lot of people. The New York Times article, the thing I didn't get into Was that the guy actually thought for sure he had COVID. Because a month before he had the classic symptoms, high fever, whole nine yards tested negative for the flu, and his antibody test was negative. So is it a valid test or not? And there's a lot of people that are like, you know what, I got sick in January, I got sick before we start talking about it here in the US. Has it been around? Has it been, basically, did it come to the US sooner? So who knows where this is all, we're all gonna sort this out.
Right. And the case fatality rate in Wuhan was 2.3%. So 2.3% of the confirmed cases, you know, passed away, but 50% of those were critically ill patients. So it does sort of pass through that the sicker you are, the more serious it is.
Yeah. And then that's coming out of China. And we have all this new data showing the people that do do worse, and we're starting to you know, partion everybody out. We know that the Italians have a much higher death rate. And then if you look at their demographic, they're older and all this other stuff. It's, we're learning. We're learning that in New Orleans here in the US, we're having a higher fatality rate higher, sicker rate, because of multiple different reasons. And you can start to predict where you're going to need more healthcare resources based on these based on these demographics,
right. I mean, there were there were two specific issues that came up in New Orleans that may parallel the Italian subset in that it was a high density area with you know, Mardi Gras going on. And, you know, a lot of the case fatalities happened in a nursing home population, people had advanced disease living in close quarters, you know, so, this this may not be a new paradigm, it may actually be the same paradigm playing out in a specific way. Your audio is out.
Sorry, what's your what's your take? What's your summary of this article then?
So my summary of this article is that there's a really high number of people who got infected pretty quickly. This is a high infectivity virus. But of those, the vast majority of them did not get that sick, thankfully. But of the ones that did get sick, there are significant number who became critically ill and some who unfortunately even died. So it is serious. We do have to take it seriously and maintain social distancing and do all the things we can to flatten that curve. But if you do get sick, there there for most, you will you will see the other side okay.
Yeah. So the other articles that you chose to talk about how does this play into this one?
So the second article is answering the question of what is the true denominator? Right? How many people actually are infected, right? We're talking about these rates of infection. But the problem is in just about every spot in the world, we're choosing to because of limited resources, we're choosing to test people who are high risk- the patients who come in with significant symptoms, right? It's not just simply that you show up and say, hey, I've been coughing for a few days, I want to get checked for COVID. If you do that, you're gonna get turned around and told to go home and self quarantine, right? The ones who are sick, having trouble breathing, high fevers, those are the ones that are getting tested. So unfortunately, we're creating our own sample error. And this is this is playing out the world over so the natural follow up question is, what's the true denominator how many people actually are infected and they there's a study called the estimates of undetected rate among SARS CoV2 infected using testing data from Iceland. And they chose to look at Iceland in particular, because they have a sort of a dual phase program. They have the same exact setup as we all do, where they're testing nationally high risk individuals through their national university hospital system. But most of the population again, so they do throw in there, there still is a little bit of sampling bias, but most of the population is eligible for voluntary testing from a private company called deCODE genetics. So because they have a much larger sampling size, this became a good spot to try and figure out what that true denominator is. You know, like I said, there are some limitations because even though most people did fall into the ability to get or eligibility to get tested through this private company, they didn't get everybody. But they did get some nice demographic data. 44% of the people who went and got voluntarily tested had some mild sort of cold or flu symptoms. So these were not asymptomatic individuals by and far, many were, but not all. And based on their data, the results of both the national testing and the private testing 88.7 to 93.6% of infections are undetected infections. They're the ones that we don't know about.
Say that one more time. Slowly.
Yeah, so they created a range, they didn't have an exact number, but somewhere between 89 to 94% of all true infections. were being undetected to sort of flip that around the other way-we're only diagnosing about 6% of the true infections. So we're, we're leaving a lot on the table by design.
Yeah. And so and I have to believe these guys. Now I know that your undergraduate degree was in economics, correct?
Yeah, among others,
Among others. Well, I got the biggest kick out of reading this article because looking at the math that they're doing, this is basically my insecurity nightmare. I'm like, I'm not walking around whenever I'm like really stressed, I don't have nightmares about being naked. I have nightmares about trying to take a calculus test or something. These stats are stunning. I mean, it almost looks like artwork, what they're doing, so I have to believe them that they're right. Because, it's pretty crazy.
Yeah, it took me a little bit to read it and make sure that I understood what the numbers meant. And that and as we discussed it, the the first time around when we're talking about this article, I actually overstated what they were trying to say. Because I misunderstood some of the numbers. So after reading it two, three or four times, it made a little more sense to me. So...
Well, I'm glad it made sense to you because it just I just looked at this and it just looks like I'm, I'm, I feel like I'm on goodwill hunting with that chalkboard and trying to solve the, whatever equation it is these things are they did a lot of math on this to extrapolate this to a nationwide thing, which means they had that they had the test. They showed how many people were being missed, and then they extrapolated it to their census.
Right, and just to explain what I mean by numerator and denominator in this situation. So the numerator or the number above the line are the number of people who have COVID infection. The denominator is the population, right? So one point of bias in a study like this, that you have to understand whenever you're reading this, is you have volunteers by people who said I'm going to go get tested. You might have plenty of people who said, I'm fine. I'm not getting tested. I don't want to know.
I'm not getting paid. So why should I drive over?
Yeah, exactly. Maybe I'm gonna get exposed because I'm hanging out with all these people. So the true denominator, the population might be underrepresented. So even though we're saying that 6% of the people are the true and 94% are being undetected, might actually be a smaller number. But I think what you can take away from this is that we're only seeing the drop in the bucket. The question is, how much is that drop?
So we have to figure out how much of the population has already been exposed. Because what it comes down to is what this study is telling us.
Right.
Yeah. So how do we get to the denominator here? What are some different ways to do it?
So probably one way to do it, which hasn't been done yet, but is under discussion is random testing, right? Because if here you're saying the selection bias is in that only certain people are coming to you...well, maybe if you go to them, you'll be able to get a better sense of a smattering or a cross section of the population. And this has been one of the discussions now in the media, about in the United States, in particular about certain counties, getting access to testing, and setting up random testing protocols. And some of the discussion has been about mobile command centers, right, going out to people so that you decrease that selection bias.
So if you're going to do something like that, it has to be a test that is easy has to be a test that is sensitive and more important to be...
Gotta be cheap.
Yeah.
Gotta be cheap.
It's gotta be cheap. You have to have a certain level of sensitivity and specificity. Can you explain to everybody what sensitivity and specificity is?
Sure. So harking back to my medical school days, I remember this little, this little memory game that you play to try to remember the difference between sensitivity and specificity. And we call it spin and snout. So when you talk about sensitivity, sensitivity is the number or the percentage of ruling out the disease, whereas specificity is ruling in the disease right, so we want to talk about it. In other words, or another part of that is, if you have a positive test, do you actually have it? What are the chances that that that's a true positive, and you actually are infected? And on the flip side to that, if you have negative exam, how confident are you that you don't have it and we didn't miss the fact that you have it?
Yeah. If you want an update on this, I went to Peter Attia MDs website and he does a whole thing on how to get people back up to speed with this epidemiology and in stats kind of terms, because it is confusing, but bottom line is, if you have a high sensitivity, high specificity, it's a good test.
Right.
Is what it comes down to.
Yeah, any screening test you want to have, you want to know that it's picking up the right people and casting away the right people and not telling people incorrectly that they have something. And also not letting us lose the ones who truly have who we don't know.
Yeah, so think about this: if we do a test, and it says that I am positive for the antibody, meaning that i have IGG, and it is a false positive, then I go around the world thinking I'm, I'm bulletproof, and I could be infecting people. And then I put myself at risk. If we take a test, and it is a false negative, then we're putting people in saying you don't have this yet, go back in your home, keep quarantine, you can't go back to work and all this other stuff. And that's kind of what we're going to get into right now.
Right. The risk of it is it's the antithesis of social distancing.
Yeah, yeah. So you pulled up another article, or this is the diagnostic value and dynamic variants of serum antibody, Coronavirus disease. What was your take on this article?
So it's an interesting article for sure, but I would caution that when you read it, kind of similar to the monkey article, which we'll discuss next, the numbers are small. And you always have to be careful whenever you're trying to interpret data in a small data set, because the smaller it is, the higher the risk of bias, the unintentional but but bias in the numbers. So it was the first published data that compared the PCR testing, versus well, rather, they took a bunch of patients who were all being tested for COVID with PCR, and the ones who tested negative and therefore were known to not have COVID right? We might walk around thinking we don't have COVID. But we don't know whether we do or don't since people can be asymptomatic for so long. These are patients who we know don't have COVID and use them as the control group compared to the PCR positive patients who are known to have COVID. And what they did is they then looked at those patients, and tested IGM and IGG to know who makes it how much and whether or not that can happen in the control group as well, to say it another way: if I'm infected with COVID, and I make IGM and IGG, but somehow someone in the non COVID group does it as well, how valid is that to know that I'm immune?
Yeah.
Right? The idea is that only the people who have been exposed and therefore can protect themselves should generate that immunity or should we should be using that as a marker for the immunity so a couple interesting things are that some people that's an important point did not make IGG. And on the on the control side, three people did make IGG. However, a big caveat in that is that they made it a much lower titer. So they had a they made some IGG but less IGG than those people who were exposed to or had active viral replication. So another point I'll make is that this is a it's a very interesting article, and it's been discussed a lot. It's a journal pre proof article. So it does mean that it hasn't been published yet. But the journal has accepted it for publication. It's already been through peer review. So this is still a very legitimate publication. So there were in the two in the two sides, there were 43 patients with PCR positive confirmed COVID-19 and compared to their control group of 33 patients who were these rule out patients, patients who came in they, they thought they were sick and potentially had COVID, but the PCRs were never positive. And another good point I would make is, these patients have multiple testing points. They were tested at multiple times. So to decrease...
Multiple times in the same location, though right? Nasopharyngeal swabbing.
Right. So so they're trying to control for that. Well, what if there, we missed it the first time, right? So then they're going to repeat it again a few days, which gives you a trend over over time. So but but I agree, the point being that it was all nasopharyngeal swabs, I think oral too nasal and oral, yeah. So limited to one type. So you can still you still have that bias of did you not do it adequately? You would hope it's only and they don't mention this, whether it was or not, that's it only a certain few people who are doing the testing, so that you're controlling for variables of maybe some who do it better than others. And maybe get better sampling. So they don't mention that but because it was all done in one site, you have to assume for the moment that there's only a few people who are doing the testing, so they know what they're doing. The sensitivity, I'm sorry.
Oh, I was just gonna say what I found interesting in this is this suspected infected patients were discharged from the hospital once the results of two time molecular tests in 24 hours were negative. So basically, in my interpretation of this understanding, now, the limitations of the testing, they may have sent people out that were not PCR positive, that could later develop IGG and IGM. So when you get into the sensitivity and specificity of this, it is this is this is as good as we can get. But it may change as we gather more data.
Right. Right. So the sensitivity specificity for IGM and IGG to diagnose an infection was 48% and 88.9% of sensitivity. So IGM was 48 and IGG was 88.9 and 100% and 90.9% specificity, right? So, in other words, if you had IGM, that meant that you had the infection because it's an acute marker that would only happen if you've been acutely infected. But if you didn't have IGM, it did not mean that you weren't infected. Right? So just to sort of wrap your head around that it's really really good as a marker if you have it, but if you don't have it doesn't give you a whole lot of confidence.
I love how we're doing this because the media just glosses over it and just confuses people. My patients are calling me all day long asking all these questions.
Yeah, it's important to understand what it is right and the media doesn't kind of give you a primer to explain the background of what they're talking about. They just give you a two minute soundbite and you're sort of left on your own to interpret it.
Exactly. Sorry to interrupt go on.
No no problem at all. So they found that as you would expect, given that IGM comes first and then IGG follows IGM titers would rise and then they'd fall because as you get over the acute infection, you no longer need your IGM. But the IGG titer would rise until they were 100% in those people that produced IGG, right, so the ones that were making IGG made them. It was always higher, for whatever reason, and this, this is not clearly explained, but the titers of IGG were always higher than the titers of IGM. I think it's just something to sort of keep in the back in your mind just because we don't yet know what titers means. So it's just getting all the data you can and trying to figure out what it means going forward is important. The IGG positivity rate was over 90 was up to 90%. And it didn't really change it once...from the time that you were virus positive with PCR to your post infectious viral negative state. But the titer of IGG was almost double once you pass the infection, which that starts giving you that glimmer of hope about immunity, right. Because as you're fighting the infection, it's not as important to remember, you need someone who's actively on the front line. And that's where your IGG IGM helps you. But once you're done, you want to you want to remember that you want to be stone cold, you want to know that if you get any kind of exposure again, your body is ready to jump into action.
I mean, this is just getting back to your analogy, what you have are some special, we've got special ops that have a picture of something and they say when this thing shows up, kill it before it does anything. And all they do is wait. That's what the IGG is doing is waiting for the possibility of seeing that and they just get after it.
Right. So just to sort of talked about the the the sort of underside of this, three of the 33 patients in the control group are IGG positive, right. So that that makes you step back just a little bit in saying that, well, if you got the IGG, you're good, right? But the important thing is that the titers were lower. So they talk about the the units, the units of positivity for this assay, were 1010 units per milliliter, and those that were in the control group had no one higher than 15. So they were sort of a low kind of weak positive compared to those in the active group, who all had much higher at least twice the normal titers. So that might be an important piece of information, right that not only figuring out who is IGG but how much maybe there's a threshold value that confers immunity. 27 of the known COVID patients has IGG testing during the infection, three of them didn't make any IGM or IGG, so whoever didn't make IGG also didn't make IGM. It's interesting because the way I look at this is probably different than almost everybody who reads this article. I'm sure everyone who looks at it and it's valid is gonna say certain people don't make it. What I look at it is that's kind of an amazing thought. 10% of the people didn't make IGM or IGG and still fought off the virus somehow. So there's some sort of mechanism of secondary mechanism to be able to successfully defeat the virus beyond this, the typical virology that we know about.
Well, I okay, so point CounterPoint. What if they're catching this person at a point in time where the IGM is dipped down and the IGG is coming up? So you're going to have two overlapping...
Right you're in a window right?
You're in a window. So did they check them at the wrong time?
Right. That's a great thought. The catch is they did this at least three times separated over several days, going all the way out to 28 days post infection. So I suppose it's possible, but given what we know about the curves of IGM and IGG, even if you think maybe you were shifted over in time, you should have caught it somewhere. And maybe you don't get one maybe maybe you only get one, maybe you don't get both. We should have seen something.
So what you're describing is that people that had an innate immunity, but they did not develop the adaptive immunity. In other words, their body's initial response may have been effective enough, but they did not develop. So those people, the question is, can they be reinfected? Will they have a possibility of the virus, having a resurgence and come back and hit them again? Interesting.
Yeah. So that's the discussion. The discussion is do these people have immunity now, right? If you're making the supposition that you need IGG to have immunity, and these people can't make IGG, are they subject to reinfection? I would argue it goes even deeper. We're trying to get serum right draw blood from people who have had infection, to look at IGG titers to understand how much is needed for immunity. How much is enough? I would want to know about the serum of these people. What makes it different? Is there something is there a different way that we could be looking at this to confer immunity? Is there something else that maybe can work in concert?
Hmm. So here you have the subset of people which is a significant amount and it's small study 10%.
Right.
So a subset of people that survived did not produce the antibodies, and going forward and some sort of weird society where we have to have immunity passports to go around. Peter Attia was talking about when you get bracelets for people to show I'm this I'm that which is gets a little bit big brother-ish and it gets real scary thinking about that. But there could be a subset of people that will not produce antibodies, but their innate immunity prevents them from getting infected. And we can't withhold them from going to work. We can't stop them. That's a fascinating observation. I did not see it that way. I was I was of everybody else that read this article and just went 10% didn't produce it. So...
Yeah, but it's going back to what you said. I mean, this is this is why you gotta analyze articles and you got to have multiple people looking at it because people can read articles and have the same data and draw completely different conclusions.
Much like everything else.
Much like life. Let's, let's jump into the sort of article the day before we start talking about the pros and cons of these immunity badges or licenses. The we want to talk about the the Macaque monkey study. And...
What's the only reason why I threw that out first not to describe it, but it just shows why you have to pay attention and read the articles yourself and have two different people interpreting it differently.
Right. So it's a very small study. It is pre-publication, and it has not been peer reviewed. So it is being touted as kind of the be all and end all for the discussion about immunity. But it is a very much in the pubescent stages of research.
It's fascinating because I heard Dr. Fousey on a CNN news thing. We believe that because of the macaque monkey study, and then I heard Dr. Hotez go on Joe Rogan. He said we're we're sure that we can develop immunity because there was a macaque monkey study and everybody just keeps saying the macaque monkey study the macaque monkey study. I don't think there's another one out there. I tried to look I didn't find one. This is the one that I found.
Yeah, no, I did the same. And, you know, like I said, it's it's fascinating but has to be taken with a big grain of salt. So let's, let's jump into it. Yeah. The whole reason why they did this study, it was prompted by reports of patients who have been discharged and considered cleared from virus and then they were coming back with reinfection or raising that question of is this a relapse or reinfection? You know the difference being relapse, that you have the same infection you did and you just got sick again, versus reinfection that you actually got sick a second time. And it implies that there's no immunity.
Big difference.
So they followed four rhesus monkeys. And they infected all four of them. They actually gave them inoculations of the SARS CoV2 virus and they developed a lot of those typical symptoms that we're seeing in people around the world. Once they the symptoms were alleviated, and the viral replication as judged by, as you said, respiratory and animal swabs and PCR had all subsided, all appropriate antibodies, so IGM and IGG and there's actually a whole bunch of other ones we didn't even touch on. They were all there, right? So they sort of validated the subset of the four monkeys by saying these all created everything appropriately and therefore, we can look at them for some information. They euthanized one of the monkeys from the start. And they basically took various organs and tested the organ tissue to see if they would be PCR positive and they found evidence of viral replication all over the body: nose, pharynx lung, gut, spinal cord, heart, skeletal muscle and bladder all displayed PCR positive COVID at the time of infection. Two of the Monkey so now you're down to three monkeys. Two of the monkeys were then re challenged, where they inoculated them a second time with SARS CoV2. So again, this is talking about reinfection, not reactivation. All the monkeys. So all three monkeys were then tested for viral load. And none of them were found to be PCR positive. So the one monkey who was left as a control and the two monkeys who were re inoculated, none of them had PCR positive disease at this point. They then took one of those reinfected monkeys euthanized that monkey as well did the same kind of testing, looking at all those different organs and trying to see if they were PCR positive and found that they were negative in the tissue
In all of the tissue and that's pretty shocking how disseminated that virus was in the first one. So that's impressive.
Yeah. So very interesting data very interesting information throws out a lot of very positive possibilities here now for infection and the ability to fight off reoccurrence. But, gotta gotta to be very skeptical, right? I mean, for monkeys, you know, they all displayed antibodies. And from the last study we looked at, we know that that's not true, right? If you have those 43 patients, you know, sort of looking at that and say, if I only took four of them, and looked at those four people, and they all made antibodies, I draw conclusions from the study. Well, I guess everyone makes antibodies, but we know that's not true.
Yeah, that is a that's a very interesting analysis on a study that's being thrown around in the media like crazy. Nobody's talking about that. And if you read their abstract, I'll say it one more time, like I did. It seems like they had 1000 monkeys. So great job on interpreting that and getting into the details and you know, having the time during Passover and stuff to go into detail like that, because...
Yeah, I mean I just got a cup of coffee, got some matza just sat down and went through all these studies.
Well, you're better than me because it's it's like drinking out of a firehose, I try to sort through which ones I'm going to take a deep dive in. And I like doing this with you. I like doing these point five episodes where we do do deep dives. And, and you challenged me to look at some of these studies. So I had a long interview yesterday with Matt Atwood, who's the CEO of a company that has access to rapid point of care IGG, IGM testing, where they actually have the ability to take a finger prick like a glucose stick, and then you can see if you're IGM positive, IGG positive. And it's interesting because you had also sent me that study and he sent it to me about the Laredo was it El Paso or Laredo?
Laredo yeah...
Laredo. Yeah. Why don't you go ahead and tell everybody about what kind of a fiasco that was?
Well, the short version is best intentions for sure. The city of Laredo ordered, I think half a million testing kits to try and stimulate their economy, right? They wanted to...
Just to clarify, it was half a million dollars for 20,000 kits. So they spent half a million dollars.
Oh, thank you. And they basically wanted to go out and test everyone and see if they could figure out who's IGG positive and say that those people can go back to work and sort of get Main Street running again. And it turned out that the kits were not quite up to snuff. And unfortunately, it was a bit of a loss for the city of Laredo.
So people are asking like, well, how is this happening? And I just want to just clarify this a little bit. It's what happened in China is exactly what President Trump is doing here. When they realized that they were behind the curve on this, and they needed masks and gloves and testing kits, China went to facilities like toy manufacturers, and they went to different manufacturing companies and said, you're going to stop production on that. Here's your parts to make masks, here's your parts to make test kits. And here's how you're going to do it, figure it out. So these were not already pre designed medical locations. They were doing what the government told them to do. And then they made a bunch of these things. They shipped them out, the US bought a bunch. And then we realized...a lot of these things are not effective, and they shipped them back, discussed possibly suing this and so then China had to step it up and be like, well, we can't just force you to do this. Well, as it turns out, there's a bunch of that stuff still floating around in the US. And there are some companies that are saying, well, I'll just repackage it and sell it. And that's kind of what happened to these guys. So for instance, our group, I got an email from somebody in our group that said, we have access to these IGG kits. And I looked into it and as it turns out, I, we contacted the manufacturered for company and they're like, yeah, we got a bunch of those kits that are not valid because they're not certified. So a company out of Houston bought us. And then they contacted our group and offered to sell it for dirt cheap. And it's, you get what you pay for, I guess.
Yeah, I mean, it definitely was a great deal. They were super cheap, but...couldn't really do much with them unfortunately.
And then from as doctors, imagine, if we tested people with an unreliable test, and we said look, the we all you and I carry liability all the time, but at least we can say this test was FDA shown to be this the sensitivity specificity, so there is a 95% chance that the information I'm going to give you as correct, you're going to assume and I'm going to assume that there's a slight possibility that it could be wrong. If you're positive, then what we're going to do is send you for another more distinct test, which costs a lot more money, it's going to be serum and that's kind of where I think this needs to go. You do mass screening, like we did with well, quite honestly, HIV, I remember we did the rapid HIV and then you do the the Elisa test or whatever it was afterwards to try and really determine what's going on. So we have these people that if we can screen them and get the IGG IGM and then do a secondary test and prove that they're that they have antibody. Then now the next discussion is alright, Dr. Akerman. We've got IGG people running around with their badge saying I can work I can do things. What are the limitations of that?
Well, I think there's there's some issues that are...and I want to be clear, I, I agree that we need to figure something out. And this opens up a world of possibilities. But we're in the infancy because there's a lot of questions that haven't been answered. So first of all, do we know are there specific titers that confer immunity? Because if there are, a simple little blood test that just says yay or nay might not be enough, right, we have to make sure that all the manufacturers are assessing at the same level to call that positive. Right? If we know that you need titers of 20, let's say, and you have a test that calls it positive at 10. Right? You're creating a ton of false positive results. So you got to be really, really careful about that. And, you know, again, we haven't answered that question just yet. Is there the possibility of reinfection? So what does immunity mean? Right, we have all this data now coming out of South Korea because they've had over 100 people come back who were discharged from hospitals being told that they've cleared infections and that they're no longer sick. And they've actually come back and have retested positive by PCR. But what does that mean? Does that mean that they've gotten the infection again? Does that mean that maybe they were kicked out too quickly? Maybe that their viral loads had dropped? Or they simply had sampling error. Right. When they got tested the day before, maybe they just didn't pick it up in the right spot.
Exactly. So the other articles that you talked about bringing that up, but it is fascinating, because this is just case reports coming out of South Korea. And everybody that looks at this nobody wants to believe that you can get reinfected like like that is like the the that is a doomsday prediction. So we're going to say, look, the macaque monkey study which you've kind of already said take it with a grain of salt, the size of Gibraltar and then this the IGG so it's the good news is looking at SARS CoV from 2003...they those people have been looked at years later a decade later, and they've maintained their immunity. Now, I challenge that there are some possibilities that these tests, although they're COVID-19 specific, what if some of these people test positive because they have IGG to SARS CoC? That was right. That was an argument that a PhD brought to me. Because he did...I was on the I was on a zoom call yesterday with a virologist who did the original research on that and he's like, doing this he's like, well, we're seeing that some people can develop antibodies which made a mistake that being said, I don't know that these fingerpricks there was a article that just came out today, that detection of SARS CoV2. They found the binding protein to be specific so the test you can still do a test specific for SARS CoV2. And I'm not sure if these IGG IGM are can actually do determine that. So more studies are gonna have to be kind of vetted for this.
Yeah. And I think that, you know, it begs the larger question, what do you do with those false positive results, especially if you don't know that they're falsely positive? Right? Again, like you mentioned earlier, patient could be walking around thinking that they're bulletproof. And it turns out, not only are they not bulletproof, they might now get the infection and pass it along to everyone. It becomes part of the larger discussion about herd immunity, right? Because if we're getting all these people that now are immune, and we're putting those people out in the population, then the people that they're coming across are not as at risk. Right, but we don't know what that critical number is to create that herd immunity.
Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot to discuss and clearly you and I can get together and try and vet some of this stuff as the literature comes out. I appreciate you taking the time to do that. Unfortunately, it's starting my telemedicine time right now. But where can people find you Dr. Akerman?
The easiest way is to check out my website. There's a lot of information about my practice there and I've been trying to update my blog with useful information. And that's at www.stuartakermanmd.com.
Yeah, so clearly this is a super smart guy watch his videos he actually has a pretty good sense of humor and has some pretty interesting stuff and his the videos you're sending me your kids which we will not discuss today was pretty pretty funny also so quarantine in the Akerman house should be a some sort of big brother type thing where it's just funny it's hilarious
Yeah, we're thinking of pitching it to the networks in the near future.
Alright buddy, I appreciate you taking the time so go to stuartakermanmd.com You can reach me at on Instagram at kbmdhealth and kbmdhealth.com for the website. We are currently oh good news, we now have brought a leak on our website. So BrocElite, Atrantil, and CBD. We're having some pretty good results with that we can get into that later but today was much more of an academic discussion. Thank you so much, Dr. Akerman for joining now I got to get to the real job.
Thanks Ken. Have a great day.
Alright buddy. Have a great day.
Hello everyone it is now time for gut check project COVID file number four. We have an incredible guest today with joining your host Dr. Ken Brown. We how now have Mr. Chris Austin from Waxahachie, Texas. He is here with sea long medical and you may have seen some of his incredible essentially their vent hoods they are hyperbaric vent hoods that allow people to breathe better. Chris, thank you so much for taking time out of I know is a very busy morning as you prepare for for more work at sea long medical down here in Waxahachie. How are you doing?
Oh, we're doing well. We're, we're we're feeling good. Oh, no. And first of all, I need to apologize a little bit. It's starting already. My voice starts to go away. Early and earlier every day because of so much talking and stuff we do but anyway, we're doing well just not much sleep and a whole lot of talking but it's all it's all great. It's all wonderful. People are being so, so supportive, it's just I can't even get my head around it still.
Well, no, it's it's awesome. We're obviously in the middle of the pandemic here with the with the COVID crisis but can you want to speak a little bit about what it is that you saw on the TV and why you called me and how I ended up reaching out to Chris.
Absolutely. I may sound a little different because the internet went out of the studio so I'm doing this by phone so that's yeah, so you and I are feeling the same thing here. So I was watching and I kind of joke about this that I've actually become my dad and I like 60 minutes now so a lot 60 minutes.
My granddad so don't...I'm with you there.
And they did this incredible segment. First of all, they they lead up to it with this with the the stress that the New York doctors are under followed by nurse segment, which was just incredible, and I don't want give anything away but I just sat down with holy cow, he's a neighbor. We're here in Dallas, you're in Waxahachie, Texas, and fortunately, like a like a good Texan you woke up early and agreed to do this interview just because you're a nice guy, so it's pretty exciting.
Well that's I appreciate all that but I we're up, we've been up working here for over an hour already. We've been starting at six because of the crisis and staying here til two in the morning the other day, I was there till four in the morning day before yesterday. Just the way it flows go. So, but thank you very much.
So Chris, before we started the interview, you let me know that sea long medical has been around basically doing these hyperbaric helmets since 1985. But you ended up acquiring the company and moving it from Kentucky down to Waxahachie, Texas back in 2016. What drew Chris Austin to sea long medical and then to bring it down here to Waxahachie?
That's good question the, the whole thing started because we have a mutual friend who lived up by Lake Possum Kingdom. And he manufactures hyperbaric hoods does a company called tekna industries and through mutual friends and something like that we became friends. And I have diabetes. So I have neuropathy pretty bad. And was having a lot of problems with my legs. Can you say, Chris, come up here. Let's do some dives. Let's fix that and I didn't really know anything about it at the time. So I said I wanted to come see him anyway it's a beautiful area up there. I went up and staying awhile and took took some treatments, a week's worth of treatments and it's It was incredibly incredibly life changing what happened. I could drastically reduce my insulin. The...neuropathy I'm sorry, it's just went away for not not forever it was gone for about a month. So it was definitely a you know, a changing event for me. I mean it was a whole bunch of other things happened that some people say doesn't happen but my eyesight got better my hearing my sense of smell. You know, it's like a Popeye when I ate this big can of spinach kind of and I said, you know what last getting off track here kinda I used the sea long hood. That's what I use for my treatments. And because that's what he uses. He wasn't he was pretty good friends but pretty good friends with the previous owner and after a while I've gone back and done several more and same results. And he called me. Philip called me and said, Chris, I need to talk to you. So okay, great. No problem. Got up there and did another treatment. And he said, you know, that product you're using, that's hood. Yeah, that's pretty cool. He goes, it's probably going to go out of business. The owners have been around a long time, and they're ready to, you know, retire and move on. And nobody has taken up on his offer to buy the company. And he stated that the company is so important and the product is so important. I really think you ought to buy it because I had just retired after 30 years as an aerospace engineer.
Nice.
Oh, wow.
That's what we did.
Wow, that is incredible. So I'm actually far more endeared to the story. You are drawn to it because of your own personal experience and benefit. You knew you needed to save the technology so that other people could have that benefit. That drew you into it. You were in retirement, you said that this is something that we can do. You had no idea that there's gonna be a pandemic, though around the corner in 2020, did you?
Not really? But I'll tell you a huge cascade of events in my life for probably three or four years before that, Up to that time, and significantly after that time, made this all possible. No, it mandated it that this was going to happen. You know, we knew about the the aspects of the potential for a great life saving product for non invasive ventilation. And it just spoke, spoke to my heart and my mind right there said, this is what we're doing. This is our destiny. And that's why we're here.
That's incredible. Wow.
So You, you said that there was a gentleman who was at sea long. Was sea long medical created simply for the...the manufacturing of the hyperbaric helmet?
Correct. No, no sea long...he, see here. That's a big, big story. But Hill-he previously owned a very large injection molding corporation.
Okay.
And a man by the name of shorty long, who was acquaintance of his, who was a professional deep sea diver said, I need something like this and it doesn't exist. They drew up a sketch on a napkin kind of thing. And the helmet was born. And shorty long said I don't I'm a diver. I've got a big diving business and stuff here. I don't want it...you run with it. You've already got all the equipment and all this. So I did.
Well, you kind of hinted at it already because of your own revelations on how you began to feel better. I had a question written down which was to ask you before the COVID situation if if beyond the helmet being an intermediary step before or hopefully saving somebody from intubation, if there were specific diseases that it worked for but you already mentioned, retinopathy and diabetes, do you know if anybody like with sickle cell anemia what...are those are those types of patients that also benefit from this type of hyperbaric helmet?
Well, as you guys know, in the medical field, there's there's a lot of things we have to tread lightly on as far as what we say.
Oh, ok.
No, I'm gonna say it. I'm just giving you that caveat up front. Because the vast vast majority of the indications that we have...I can't even count how many...people have told us this. Plus as we are so became so close to the industry and the and the the process I've personally seen been there and talked to amazing things. children with autism, PTSD course an incredible array of soft tissue damage. Incredible, incredible positive results for traumatic brain injury. And one of them in particular if you look up Joe Namath, you know, the famous New York Jets, quarterback, and few more, but he's got all kinds of stuff on the YouTube and various places about him telling his story about his whole life was changed due to 100 dives in a hyperbaric chamber. completely correct...completely corrected all of his brain damage. I can go I can go on with this kind of statement for hours and hours, just one after the other after the other.
Chris, can I clarify something real quick, so does the helmet act like a hyperbaric chamber?
No, it just provides well in the hyperbaric chamber, it provides the pure oxygen that works with, you know, the atmospheric pressure to about 3 ATA, or 60...70 feet you know something or something like that. And the pure oxygen coming into the respiratory system gets supercharged in every single cell in your body. Every cell gets this this amazing product that the cells know how to use to do their job. So all of a sudden, they start doing their job better than they ever have, and, you know, doing all kinds of great stuff in in cells, that a lot of people have said, no, you'll never regenerate these cells. Those cells are once they die, they're gone. That's not true, least for a vast majority of them, like brain cells and heart cells and things like that.
And that's
Plus one thing I forgot to add probably the most important part is during the process of the hyperbaric treatments, your body starts producing a huge amount of its own pluripotent stem cells. So those cells now are happy and fed, they start grabbing all the stem cells and just go into work repairing stuff.
Nice. Now that all of that all that makes makes complete sense with the way that we've tried to help and repair people neurogenically, etc. I've got another question for you and Ken and I debated on how how clinical that we wanted to get on this particular series, but where you're taking it's, it's almost inevitable. Part of the problem that some of the people are worried about, or the physicians are worried about with the patients now with COVID is that some of their red blood cells may actually lose a little bit of the oxygen carrying capacity. And they've decided that they may need to look at things that are hyperbaric and different different types of modalities that do exactly what you just talked about supercharge extra extemporaneous. I'm mispronouncing that word, but the extra cells around them. Is that something you found with the helmet that could work?
Yeah, that's what it's for you bet it could work.
That's awesome
It does work. It has been working for that for 35 plus years. But one of the most important things too...I keep saying that but everything so they're all important is that...angiogenesis in your body starts forming new blood vessels and in getting blood to places that may have been either either starved due to previous conditions, or the body senses that nope now these things need to be repaired. For whatever reason it may be that you know the the virus could have done damage...just whatever reasons.
So before the helmet came along, people were scrambling in the the word of street was we were going to run out of ventilators and everybody knows that usually in the ballpark of 10,000 12,000 is the low end on the amount of money that they'd have to spend per unit. Tell us a little bit about what the the helmet cost the medical community and where you've moved the price since then, Chris.
Well, the the helmet before all this happened was $162 and 70 cents, and it's still $162 and 70 cents. That's the basic model, which at the time, we produced and provided that based on usage before, like Dr. Chris and others who were doing the testing, but once this, the COVID-19 epidemic started, we became much more popular and a larger number of doctors started using it and people started figuring out there's different things that can be done. There's different accessories, particularly Dr. Chris Patel, there's different accessories that really would help us. And they would send us videos and we'd correspond. And then we would go, we have a great team we pair with called impact. They would 3d print the stuff I'd sketch it all out on a piece of paper or something, and they and they would make the design and we come back and like we liked it, or we didn't like it, we'd send it to Dr. Pel, Dr. Chris and Dr. Patel, and they'd, you know, critique it and if it was a good product, we'd make it right there. We could have made in a matter of hours. Well, the 3d printer, ship it back to him. And we've made a bunch of improvements. So long story but we've got a significant number of additional accessories. And that's what makes it possible to use this without a ventilator or any type of equipment. All you need is wall oxygen and wall O2 and a special part that we created to plug that into the system, and a peep valve, and you can do all this with no equipment.
Oh, that's incredible.
That is incredible.
That's the holy grail because in third world countries have people lined up in the halls, which is already happening in New York, Boston, New Jersey, Pennsylvania. You can treat them all with just just three quarter inch lines.
Wow, that's great. Hey, when I saw the interview on 60 minutes, you did tell a very unique story about how somebody may have helped you infuse a little cash into the company.
Yeah, talking about George Whitesides and Virgin Galactic. Been a locks up maximum no cash per se, which is another complete story. We've had no assistance from federal state local dog catchers nothing.
Dog catchers.
Which is good because Charlie, our security she'd be...no she's not good for a dog catcher. Oh, we were on Wall Street Journal first. That was first one to really contact me and Mr. Whitesides, who was the CEO of Virgin Galactic, called me up somehow he got got a link to me. Why do I get to a man named? Well go there, but uh, he's the Chris. I really liked what you do. What can we do to help? And we talked a little bit and I said, really what I need sir, is more RF welding machines. I mean we have a great partner in a company called Selectric up in New Jersey. Walker, the owner built four machines for us at risk, which means he didn't have any funds because I didn't have any money. He built them all...they were sitting there ready, all shiny, polished up ready to load into an 18 wheeler to bring down here and I still didn't have any money. So when I when I talk to Mr. Whitesides about that he goes, what's this guy's phone number? Gave him the phone number. We chatted and went our separate ways and about two hours later so Walter calls me and said somebody just called and paid your entire bill.
That's awesome.
So you know, praise God. Two days later they were here.
And that's fantastic.
And they're now up and running. Really first day with the full crew was yesterday. We've been slowly training people as they come in. Primarily most of them are all volunteers from very, very close locally to our location. Because we know we can't rely on someone who has a long commute or you know, we had to verify their their lifestyle. They don't continue to run around out there and go to Walmarts and all these places to get a potential for contracting the virus. So it took a little while to get the whole, get the whole crew. But the first day first full day was yesterday. And we hit our goal spot on for how many we created and was able to provide them to Pennsylvania. And who else? Several people that we really wanted to get them to the hotspots in saying that they shipped overnight yesterday.
So how many you're able to produce in a 24 hour period with this full crew?
Sorry, the, you know the first phase are always more difficult. These are new operators. We only had one experienced operator, which is our son, Chris Sr. And he was mostly spent training. So that that caveat is this was very slow training brand new people who had never done anything like this. So we still got over 200 out in one day, which was a good start, but we need to be and we will be. At least by next week we'll be knockin on a thousand. So that's our goal.
That is amazing.
Heck yeah.
I have a quick question for you since I didn't realize that that was that I thought there was more equipment needed.
Ventilator. All that kind of stuff, hooks on it too.
Oh okay. Is there do you see any with your engineering background is there any way to modify it so that people with a C pap machine at home could use this in any particular way?
We already do. C pap, bi pap, you know, ventilators, anything like that where you can control your positive pressure. But you don't need to do that. I'm looking for...all you need's a peep valve to control the outflow to maintain your desired pressure inside the helmet. And that's all you need.
So you're gonna...you'll dial up the atmospheres basically what's going to be inside of the bariatric helm...the the helmet
Happens to me all the time.
Yeah, that's all the words, but you'll dial up the atmospheres or the amount of pressure that you want in there with that peep valve. Correct? And then...
Yeah, and the source as long as you have a good clean viable relatively consistent source for the inflow, which we're finding new sources for that all the time.
Sure.
You just control the outflow to maintain the pressure inside.
Well, you know, a lot of the patients who end up having problems with pneumonia lung collapse, for instance, it's because they lose that alveolus. Right? And it seems to me like what you've got here is something that Ken and I talked about in our last episode, which is how do we give someone positive and expiratory pressure? And one of the ways to do that is obviously by having a good steady form of peep. And this is far more comfortable than either a tube down the throat or a big face mask like a C pap or bipap mask. This just seems far more convenient. It allows the patient to not have something directly on their face. It's it's pretty incredible
Is there any chance you have the...
The masks leak. I'm sorry, cellphone delays I'm used to this...masks leak, as you apply all of this pressure, they want to push it away from the patient's face. So you really can't get any kind of a ensured pressure. Unless you just strap the thing on like a you know, what is his name from scary movies, which is very uncomfortable and things like that. And they still have a large potential for leaking around the nose, and there's nothing against them. They're fantastic products. It's just not the best suited thing for this kind of positive pressure.
I agree. Well, Chris, I see that you have turned your shoulder a little bit, and you might even have some equipment back there that you could probably show us on how it works. Unless, unless you're you know, unless you're embarrassed. I don't know but it looks like a pretty awesome piece of equipment to me. would you would you mind showing us how you apply it?
Sure, hold on a second.
This is great. I love this guy.
What a cool situation. He just said I liked what this does. I'm gonna do this at home.
This is the peep valve I know I had one sitting over under my chair.
Oh nice.
Well, that's kind of the...the hood itself...it has been for a long, long time, is basically a bubble I saw a space helmet. Clear trash can whatever you want to call it. The key is that this is made out of a very robust yet soft and clear material because we can sit...squash it down like this and I can easily ship and store and if I push them in like that, then we have the next sealed part, which this one's already been cut for me, you get a cut template way to measure your neck with a little tape measure and then when you cut this out and look closer you might see some graduated rings on it...well the instructions say okay, if your neck is 17 inches you cut the third ring from the top or something to that effect. And then once you have it cut for your neck and the cut rings apply an interference. In other words, people we've had a problem with people saying okay, well this is cut from my neck if I'm a 17 I cut it to this line that says 17, it won't be tight enough. So I need to cut another line to make it tight on me or loose on me. Don't do that. That's all figured in there.
Right?
Well, that's kind of one of the problems we have. People say oh, I leaked I leaked. I go, how did you do it? No, don't add or subtract cut it the way the paper says,
Hey, while we're talking about that, what about somebody...and what about a woman with really long hair because you have to pull it up or a men with a hairy neck would we want to shave that or if they have like a central line, you just kind of go ahead and stay with the same cut just try to keep those things out of the way?
No, it has to be out of the way it's dry. You want to do it for intubation, you have to do it. It's like people who are firefighters or other type of the profession and they use masks they have to shave their neck. So it's the same thing. So and this ring has two ports, which doesn't matter which one they're they're not directional. So you put the inflow and the outflow, into these ports. And that's the standard part. Oh, one thing this one's called accessory port. It's a tapered hollow cone per se with the same graduated lines. So if you want to put a feeding tube or another O2 line or sensors protecting oxygen or carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, sorry we can do all that for you there. And then this is put on the patient's head, which I will do. And I'll just say that this is the easiest one there, to put on somebody's head, so first of all, it takes two or three people. Make sure it's got a good seal. Now it's on.
Oh wow.
That fast. Not exactly straight, but you get the idea.
I do.
And then this has got a big seal.
Oh wow.
And then you also have ports here. Or feeding lines here. It's not an add to it's kind of an instead of because some patients are more comfortable with it up here, some doctors like it here or say that, you know the where the host comes from. So from here from here below...
I saw how quickly Chris, you're able to apply and then even more importantly, how fast you're able to disassemble it. So a concern of a patient that needed to be accessed, you know, like their airway would be it's incredibly rapid. It looks like to me like yeah, that's pretty effective. Nothing to it, nothing to it at all.
And there's, because of this usage, we provide this type of a clip, which clips the two parts of the helmet together. So other larger pressures, they won't separate and it goes underneath there arm and one hooks in the back one hooks in the front and you have one under both arms so it folds it down very secured. And there's a quick release feature you can't see the little pin right there. All you gotta do is go pop and and the lines and everything separates. So it's basically virtually no delay still under three seconds.
So do you have, is there a Is there a maximum pressure that's recommended for the helmet?
Oh, that's depending on the respiratory therapist and the physicians. But we test every single part every single part to a half psi, which is far above anything they would ever need.
Okay. And then what about like in tidal co2 measuring the respiratory rate do y'all have like a device or are you are you able just to use a normal sera port line to make that happen?
Normal stuff. Yeah.
That is incredible.
I want to ask you a quick question about the University of Chicago study. When I was reading that it was stopped early because it was proven to be so much more effective that the mask that they that they didn't even need their number to actually completely enroll. It was so successful that they stopped early. How did you end up getting University Chicago involved?
Well, they came to us because they knew they knew of the product and it was made in the USA and they like the the multi ports and several other aspects of it. And we also have a product we call multi patient. It actually has a different design, which you have the neck sealed part like this. See this comes right now, fully assembled ready to go. A seal sealed together with an O ring inside it so it's it's unable to leave. We have another one, that this part can be taken, taken apart after the fact. And then the patients only need their own neck seal portion. So you can reuse them over and over and over. And he really liked that, that aspect of it. So that's that's what he wanted, we were the only one that has that. So, but for this horrible virus, we have to make as many parts as possible, which is an unbelievable task. So we streamline it used to have a lot a complete line of a bunch of different things. And we've ceased production on on virtually everything except what you see right there. So we can pump out more of those. Because once you get rid of all the other stuff, we concentrate on just a small number of parts we can you can get much more
Man that is...that's an incredible piece of equipment. I wish that we'd we'd had that and been trained on that back in the anaesthesia education days. That's pretty awesome.
This has gotta be one of those things that when when we show it to medical students 10 years from now, it'll be a revolutionary change and how we we treat people with ARDS with pneumonia with everything.
No joke.
And people are finding things it seems like every day but pretty much monthly, different applications, different benefits....exciting things that we find out, especially when we found out about autism, PTSD, brain, I mean brain damage I could go on and on and on several autoimmune diseases and the only thing that it really got used for prior to this because we can never get any traction at all with other than Chicago and a couple of other places that have been doing studies, like Mayo Clinic and Johns Hopkins and some pretty prestigious places and people got it. But we just couldn't get traction with with certification. But now that's kind of changed.
Yeah, it's kind of changed.
Just a little bit, just a little bit. Well, Chris, Ken, did you have any other questions for Chris, this is incredible.
One question for you, Chris, how can we help you...
You know really, I've said this over and over and it sounds kind of shallow, maybe but we need money. We have to buy more tooling to increase the flow for our raw material providers. We ha...have to. We're going to go through certification and stuff to make sure things were on where we need to be for our paperwork for FDA stuff we need more equipment and more people. And we need a bigger building. Because right now we're working out of our home. This is my living room. So that's what we need. And people have been doing so many amazing things right now with at the grassroots level. We have quite a few corporations helping us like Virgin Galactic, GM, some things like that, but you know, they're doing what they can for keeping us propped up or actually pushing us up, helping us keep going. But and at the at the suggestion, almost at the command of a whole bunch of people who said you need a GoFundMe page we want to help you know, we only we get it, we know what you're doing and where, where you're going. So I just stuck up a GoFundMe page that there's a link to that on our website. I'll just go ahead and send you the URL to that it's, it's gone so much. I can't wrap my head around it and it just started last Friday or Saturday, I can't remember.
That's right.
Well, we'll we're gonna push it out also. Definitely.
And we're gonna be giving updates via the web page right now we haven't really had you know, I can't do it myself, my son or myself would normally do it, but he he's making the products and leading the crew back there. So we don't get as much information on there as we like or on our web page but we've got some friends from church church helping us now so hopefully we'll be able to get the latest and greatest.
Man, that's it's just an incredible story and I'm so obviously I wish that you didn't have to suffer with the diabetes and the retinopathy but I'm so glad that you had it and that you found somebody at Possum Kingdom to show you everything. It's just awesome.
That's that's some of the events that happened. My previous career that I wanted to retire in, and God is good, that's the best thing I can say so many things, and so many people, and any one of those things we wouldn't have been on this path. So...
That is incredible. And the fact, you're probably working harder in your retirement than you ever have.
I gotta go back to my career to rest. But I would never do that. I would never do that. This is this is what we were supposed to do. We just didn't know it yet.
I believe it I looked at you and I realized that this your life was built to be right here where you are in this moment. And I...you're going to change the destiny of so many people, and I want to thank you for all the work that you're doing.
Well, thank you. It's not just us. It's people like yourselves that get the word out and get it. You know, you see it as a professional in the industry, but you also see it as an individual, and this is...that's, that's a big, big plus is to see the look. And if you got time to tell one story yesterday, we were working like crazy. And I can tell you untold numbers like this. And we've had to secure the facility here, because we were having hundreds and hundreds of people just show up to try to help, which is great. But it's, you know, the publicity and stuff. And they'd be knocking on our doors all day and all night. So I just drove from, you know, Wisconsin, here I am. great people, great people in that. I mean, we'd all be just tearing up and falling from the stuff these people would say what they wanted to do, and some of them are still here, by the way. Showing up in their campers who said I'm here to help as a volunteer, whatever do you need? Anyway, this lady shows up. And she says, I just came from Chicago directly. And because of the sheer volume of phone calls we've been getting, people aren't getting through. Internet as you know, those down phones are just completely clogged up. Emails, yeah I've been getten close to 1000 a day. So she couldn't get through. She said we we have such a dire need. I mean, I have people right now that need this. So I just jumped on a plane and flew down here hoping I could just see you. So our people at the gate, let her in and came and found me and she told her story and just started she start crying and balling and stuff. And we'll just say we were able to help her in she's headed back home today.
Man that's a fantastic story. Chris, as we close out, don't hang up. But I do want to thank everybody here at gut check project. Do us a favor, just share the story. It's an honor to have Chris on with us today from sea long medical. This is Chris Austin present and owner of sea long medical in Waxahachie, Texas.
I said, not owner just president. My wife and my daughter in law who's a Doctor of Physical Therapy. They're the owners.
Oh, nice. So he knows the owners pretty well at sea long medical.
That's right. I sleep with one of them.
Chris, you might want to talk to the owners about how hard they're making you work.
Yeah,
Hey Ken, anything to close out the show. Like I said, hang on, hang on to the end. Everyone, episode four like and share like and share. Chris law, Chris Austin of sea long medical. Let's get the word out. Let's work together on on this COVID crisis and we're gonna pull through together. We'll talk to everybody soon.
All right, gut check fans and everybody at KBMD health. Thank you all for joining us again for a third installment of the COVID file. Dr. Brown and I are here to talk a little bit about the physiology and kind of how people actually get sick. And Dr. Brown actually asked me to do a little role reversal. So can you want to explain a little bit what's going on here?
Yeah, so this is COVID files number three, and we got a lot of feedback when Dr. Ackerman and I did 2.5 we're all we did is talk about the gastrointestinal stuff. Then everybody else is in the news is talking about respiration, pulmonary stuff. And so we got a lot of questions about that. And I just happen to see that like, a world renowned infectious disease doctor, Dr. Peter Hotez was on Joe Rogan. And Joe was asking all these lung questions in detail, so I realized that you know, you're an expert in this your training is a crna. This is right in your wheelhouse. So I thought that we could just do some of that. Even on some of these other shows, they're interviewing virality and they're interviewing epidemiologists and they go really, really into the science. What we know that calm is contagious. And we know that the more information you have that can actually calm you down. And that's what we're trying to do in this show. We're trying to get people through this crisis. But I do believe that if you understand the physiology, then it makes sense why some people can get really sick and it makes sense why some people get better. And so you being an expert in this is just perfect. And we're getting questions like this like from a Mike Logzen from Texas. Interesting. We have one of those working for us also.
Yeah I know, names like that. Just keep popping up there's Mike Logzen one, Mike Logzen two I wonder if there's a Mike Logzen three.
I know, so Mr. Mike Logzen and asked what are your thoughts on why younger people and healthcare workers are getting hit hard as this disease goes on? That's a great question. And in fact very relevant. Newsweek just did an online publication that I received this morning, where it said the over 100 healthcare workers have died from COVID-19 So this is this is an important question. So really what we're going to do with you today is talk about the pulmonary physiology and what happens and when people say, oh, this can affect you, and you get this rapid progression that can be very frightening and different things like that. But just understanding what's going on, I think is the real important thing. So, I just want you to take it away. I'll interrupt. I'm hopefully not too much, because I have a tendency to do that. And if I am just gonna wait I got a slide on that. We'll get to that. So
A couple a couple of quick apologies that we learned in technology since we are all practicing social distancing and Dr. Brown or Ken is, is addressing his patients over in the Plano area I'm trying to help out over here in the in the Denton area. We actually are not together obviously, it's while we're recording like this, so I had to make some really bad drawing slides. Ken, you're gonna love these they are they're really, really artistic. And as I share them with you gonna pull our faces down from the screen. So bear with us, it's not normal. But we'll try to take some breaks in there, we've learned we can't put them all up at the same time at least we're not smart enough to do that. And Ken if I go too deep, if you feel like I'm losing votes just going back, hang with us though. The goal here is to show you how the disease itself is probably going to affect your lungs. And then to get to a point of showing you how we think we can work through it. I'm going to show you the tough parts, but at the same time, what it is that we're hoping to do to really get people through it. So that's
Really even if this is not relevant to you, I I do know where we're going to go with this. And right now, the mayor of New York City is thinking about bringing in a doctor draft where basically they're going to pull doctors out of retirement, they're going to ask doctors in different specialties to try and help out with these pulmonary issues. So you can even forward this to your doctor if you have family or friends that are in the healthcare field. This is something you could forward to them. Because if I happen to get called in, I want to be informed on how to treat people with their pulmonary situation, not just their gastrointestinal. So this this could also be very relevant for healthcare workers, our frontline people.
I agree, I agree. And I'm hoping that we can make some make some light of not necessarily light but bring some information that gives some people some comfort. So you'll see here my very first drawing right off the bat did not load the way I wanted it to. So that's a little bit of humor there. And that's about as good as these drawings are going to get. So I'm sorry, these are loans. That little green arrow is pointing up to a diaphragm, just a quick refresher, as a diaphragm contracts, it pulls down on the lungs, giving a negative pressure or pulling air into the lungs. And that's important when you're healthy. You're pulling air in, you're not necessarily having it pushed in some but what you need to recognize is that the lungs are made up of five different lobes the left lobe has two the right lobe has three and every single one of those lobes has tons, literally over 300 million alveoli per lung. So you a 70 kilogram average adult has around 600 million alveoli and that gives you tremendous surface area for oxygen and co2 exchange. That's what keeps us alive and that's what the oxygen keeps us alive in the co2, of course, is our waste gas that our body is pushing out. And if you were to spread it out flat, that equals to roughly a little bit larger than a tennis court, so Ken.
Wow, and so the analogy I always thought about this is a tree the main bronchus is the trunk, then you get split, and then it keeps going into smaller branches where the leaves could kind of represent the gas exchange or the alveoli. Do you visualize it like that?
Yeah, tree is exactly what they call it. It's a tracheobronchial tree and it runs all the way out. There's actually I believe, 23 generationss of tubes getting smaller and smaller and smaller until we get out to the alveolus itself. So alveoli is all of them. Alveolus is a singular one, don't hold me to it, I often interchange them myself while talking about them. So one particular alveolus. I've just drawn an arrow, it's in the lungs, it's everywhere. But I'm making an arrow and a draw here, because this is what we're really going to get started with on how it all functional I'm sorry, here's the heart. We'll we'll talk about this a little bit later in positioning but know that the heart lies anterior towards the front of your body a little bit, and a little bit over to the left. So but that's where the heart is located as it receives blood pushes it to the lungs receives the blood again and then pushes it out to your body. So let's look at that alveolus. The alveolus right here, you'll see inside the circle, that's actually the external air that we've just breathed in. So that's where our fresh air oxygen, oxygen rich air will come to, and it will be taken up by the capillary. The capillary is the blood supply that's bringing up the gas that needs to pick up oxygen and let go of excessive co2 carbon dioxide, that's the waste gas.
So that's the exchange, the oxygen goes in carbon dioxide goes into the little alveoli, then we breathe that out.
That's exactly right. And you'll notice, even though my drawings are poor, you'll notice you'll see the capillary here in a moment is going to start to kind of pull away in distance and that just makes it harder for that gas exchange. Inside the alveolus there are two specific cells that we have in there pneumocytes. So site means cells, pneumocyte one offer gas exchange pneumocyte two are there for surfactant, they make surfactant. Now, granted, the there are more pneumocyte twos than there are pneumocyte ones, but the pneumocyte ones actually take up far more real estate for gas exchange but the pneumocyte twos make that very important surfactant which allows the alveoli to expand without collapsing. And that becomes a problem for us as we as we move along. What we've returned to you here in this particular drawing, I've only drawn a pneumocyte two because that's where the infection occurs with the current virus that we're addressing the coronavirus.
We'll just say Remember, a lot of people were talking about the ACE two receptor, this is what they're talking about on the news, the these type two pneumocytes have a lot of these h2 receptors. So that's the target.
That's correct. I didn't throw that on there. But that's, that's a definite point. H2 receptors are located right there on that type two pneumocyte. The little blue dot at the top is going to represent a Coronavirus. And it's going to attach to this type two pneumocyte. So next what happens we're just going to be reminded here that surfactant is important. It breaks the surface tension. Without it, the alveolus will collapse. Very important. I'm going to remind you a few times about that. So now, the little blue dots inside of the type two pneumocytes represent the replication or basically the the increasing number of viruses that have just now been transcripted. They're they're multiplying, and now it's infected the cell.
So just to go back to our very first COVID episode, the virus gets into the cell hijacks, it gets the cell to produce more of the virus. That's why they're growing inside the cell itself.
They definitely are. And then this is not what the cell is programmed to do. So unfortunately, the cell is going to rupture and die, and the virus is going to escape to the alveolus. Now I'm going to stop real quick and remind everyone. Remember, I said that there are type two pneumocytes actually out number the type one. So the problem is it's not just one type two pneumocyte in this particular alveolus is is infected, probably most, if not all of them in this alveolus certain thing. And so this is happening all over this alveolus. Well, not only is new virus going to escape. These little red dots I just added in there represent inflammatory mediators, and they carry a message. They are searching for help. And not only that we now have a ruptured and dying and dead cell. So you'll notice I've drawn in here, Ken, what would be inside an alveolus like this? What are these things called? You remember?
Yeah, I believe you're going to talk about macrophages now.
Yeah, macrophages. Exactly. They are the janitors of the immune system. And he's there to just generally clean up regular debris and cellular debris and then take it in and then basically, it usually gets ushered out or absorbed by left, etc. But what we have now is a crisis situation because it's not just happening at this time to new massage. It's happening probably to most of them. They all begin to be picked up these inflammatory mediators are picked up by the macrophage itself, and that's going to activate it. It now knows it needs to release some messengers of its own to call for help. And right here is the beginning of something they've been talking a lot about in the news, especially for young people. And that's the cytokine storm. Because these interleukin one, interleukin six, and tumor necrotic, factor alpha are all cytokines. And they are going to be released and picked up by the blood supply the capillary right down here, and they are going to have some immediate local action. And as this is happening, remember I said there are up to 600 million alveoli throughout the throughout your lungs is this begins to happen in this section. Imagine all of the interleukin one, six and TNF alpha that will be picked up by the blood supply and now begin to spread throughout the body. So you can see now they've made their way into the capillary bed, and a few things are going to happen right off the bat. Once they first enter the capillary bed. The capillary itself is going to dilate. That's going to lower the blood pressure, but it's going to increase the blood flow. This happens with injury all over the body we we have an injury, you have swelling, it's very, very normal because you're bringing in other things to help repair. But when this happens over and over again kind of an uncontrollable situation like we're going to talk about, that's why we know that we need to manage this particular situation. The permeability of the capillary itself is going to increase that's going to allow for some fluid to escape the capillary bed, and then begin to infiltrate the alveolus itself. So fluid, also known as blood plasma escapes to the interstitial space, which is the space between the capillary and tissues, and then also goes into the alveolus.
So, the permeability or now we've got a leaky capillary bed. Permeability is not necessarily something that is in response to it it is because the capillary basal dilation is stretching it too much, are you aware of how the leaky capillary happens?
In a, in a really microbiology term, I think what happens is that those cytokine, if I'm recalling correctly, the cytokine mediators activate endothelial cells, which are the cells inside of the capillary. It actually caused them individually to constrict which makes holes. So if you can think of two large men and suddenly they become skinny men without moving their feet, there's now space between them. Does that make sense?
Yes.
That's kind of that's kind of how I remember it anyway. But that allows the blood plasma which is normally contained in the capillary bed to then escape go into the interstitial space migrates into the alveolus. And this is not what we want. I'm going to reiterate that surfactant is important. It breaks the surface tension of liquid. Without it, the alveolus will collapse. Well, we just had those type two pneumocytes that were producing surfactant. But now they are beginning to be damaged and not produced surfactant at all. And when they were producing it, they were producing the correct ratio, which meant that for the fluid that was there, remember, when we breathe in it's 100% humidity in the alveoli. Once we don't have surfactant, now we don't have enough in the ratio to help keep it open. So losing cells that produce surfactant, and then we dilute the existing surfactant that is going to increase our surface tension. And the potential of collapse of the alveolus is inevitable.
So the surfactant the way I've always kind of thought about it when you don't have surfactant, the alveolus they will stick to each other they cannot slide and open up and so it becomes a very in the dumbed down terms like it like a stuck balloon that's that can't expand.
That's correct. Now written consolidation up here, it may be a little premature at this point. But we will return to it. This is the method of how consolidation occurs. Like I said, forgive me for my drawings, I just did these and snapped them and loaded in the computer. I knew, I knew I couldn't draw and talk at the same time very well. But regardless, you'll see that fluid's beginning to build up. Little red dots in there represent cellular debris. Also, some virus is still trapped in there. Some proteins which are broken ours are still stuck in there. But remember, I warned you earlier, the capillary beds beginning to pull away, right, the interstitial space is also continuing to fill up along with the alveolus. That pressure outside the alveolus and in the water on the inside of the fluid on the inside, will basically make this alveolus you have the potential to collapse it will not expand nor contract with each breath. It basically just kind of floats as a membrane would between two liquids. I've also drawn oxygen up here at the top and co2 still in the capillary bed. The sheer distance for the diffusion is going to render This alveolus is incapable of gas exchange. That's that...
So in this picture, just to clarify the oxygen that you breathe in hits this fluid, because the alveoli is filling up, and it's not getting to the other side where it needs to go.
That's correct. It cannot just really won't diffuse that even though macroscopically may look like a short distance. It's it's still far too far for efficient gas exchange for oxygen and co2. So remember, this is what it should look like the oxygen will come in you right next to the alveolus to the capillary co2 goes, goes out O2 comes in. No big deal. That's just not what's happening right now. The next step that happens and takes us to full consolidation is going to be the summoning of these neutrophils another part of our immune system, they normally would come in, and in a healthy IV alveolus would more or less be able to target viruses and other pathogens that could be found within the lung. But in this particular situation, especially with the amount of fluids taken on, they actually become a little bit indiscriminate. And they use two agents primarily: the reactive oxygenation species and various proteases. And instead of a targeted attack, with the dilution here, inside the alveolus it actually just becomes kind of a, a wide away, wide array spray of attack. And not only do they grab ahold of some of the proteins that don't belong there and some of the cellular debris that needs to go. They'll also end up attacking indiscriminately against healthy lung tissue, healthy pneumocyte ones and pneumocyte twos.
So when people talk about a bacterial pneumonia, this is the beginning of having a super infection in addition to the damage that the virus has already caused.
It is it is and again, Brown and I are not telling you any of this stuff so that you become panicked. But really it's the opposite. knowing what's happening may help you understand number one, what it is that your health care provider needs to do to keep you and your family safe if you happen to find yourself in this situation. And number two, I think here in a moment, as we wrap up some of this, this discussion, you'll see maybe some things you could do at home to outrun some of this.
Yeah. So what we're doing, what you're doing is you're setting the stage work that you if you understand the physiology and the pathophysiology, then you can start doing some modifications to try and improve. And that's where we're headed here.
Definitely. And again, this is called consolidation at this point. This just basically establishes it's just a word that says that this side has been consolidated, it's not functioning, air will not be exchanged here, we will not have oxygen pick up nor co2 blown out by this alveolus. Now you kind of have to picture not just this alveolus but the entire portion of the affected lung is now experiencing a portion of consolidation. So let's talk about what's happened so far. We've lost type one and type two pneumocytes: one is how we breathe or the gas exchange two makes the surfactant to keep the alveoli open. Our gas exchange, of course is going down. Our surface area, our tennis court size of surface area for us to pick up oxygen is being decreased. And our diffusion distance at the alveolar level is increasing, even for those that haven't been consolidated, right. So we have a decrease in gas exchange. You'll see this little abbreviation I've debated on whether or not to put it up there, they'll PaO2. That simply just represents the pressure of oxygen in the artery. Big P means pressure little a means artery. O2. So that's just a cool shorthand that medical workers use to identify the partial pressure of the oxygen in a particular location. Inevitably, it just means that we have low oxygen and that gives us a word called hypoxemia.
Low oxygen.
Yeah, low oxygen.
Can you just on that note right there because we use pulse oximeters all the time, and even get them at Walgreens, can you explain the difference between the number on the pulse oximeter and the PaO2?
That's a, that's a great thing. So on a pulse oximeter that really is only reading the percentage of the red blood cells that are fully saturated. So there are actually four binding sites on a normal red blood cell for an oxygen molecule to bind on to an iron molecule. If all four of the sites are occupied before the red blood cell has delivered it to a tissue, and it will be counted as one that's saturated. So if you have 98% saturation, that means 98% of your red blood cells have all four sites occupied before they deposit one. This is a little bit different. This is actually the carrying capacity of, of the red blood cells and how much of the oxygen is actually present to make a difference. So SPO2 talks about how well the red blood cells are actually picking up the oxygen to take it somewhere. But let's talk a little bit about this. Ken you said that your son went to play in in I believe was in Mexico?
Yeah it was Mexico, very high altitude. He was there for four weeks, I think. Yeah, very high altitude. So essentially it was high altitude training in several tournaments.
We can use that kind of an example, when he was up there, do you think for one second that his oxygen saturation was ever at risk? Probably not.
No.
He was saturating them just fine. But what he didn't have was a high enough oxygen pressure. So his body sensed that sensed the decrease in oxygen pressure and begin to produce more mature red blood cells to become more of the bus carriers to pick up more oxygen and take it out. So we probably remained at 99% saturation the entire time, but he actually just needed more oxygen molecules themselves to sustain it because there's just less atmospheric pressure at 7,000 feet.
Yeah, and that's what we had to come to that conclusion because when it came back, we he got to work up by his pediatrician. And we were all a little bit alarmed to see that his hemoglobin and hematocrit had jumped way up. And it was in response to being in high altitude. So it was the body's adaption to it.
Well, that's I completely agree with that. And that's actually you guys, that's actually a normal thing to have happen. You have a higher red blood cell count at a higher altitude.
So now you're going to talk about the thing that's, that's the hard part, which is the work of breathing goes up.
It definitely definitely work of breathing goes up fighting this tougher distance of diffusion losing a portion of your lung capacity to move gas is going to increase the work of breathing and then throughout this theme Ken, you're going to see the word work pop up because it works in the complete opposite direction of what's happening in the lungs for someone to more or less recover on their own. So cough is going to set in if it hasn't already, that's going to increase the work of breathing. And don't forget these viruses are pretty smart. That's actually going to help spread the virus. So that's a, that's no good either. Work by the body requires more oxygen again, that's why I'm going to highlight that and just kind of think about that for a moment. If I'm decreasing my availability to get oxygen, but the work and the demand is going up. I've got an intersection of a problem here. And if not recognized soon enough, it could just get worse. So let's talk about why the why hurting your lung and recovering from an injury is probably more important than just hurting your ankle now. This is Mike Logzen's number three. This is his ankle.
Yeah, he sent us a picture. He said you can use my ankle as an example. Thank you.
Yes. So Mike number three thank you for sending in this photo. And Mike is into jujitsu and he showed me after one of his injuries that he has that ankle twisted, and he said ouch. But the good thing about hurting your ankle, okay? You do get edema just like what we're having up here, the fluid buildup in the lungs, you could get edema have a swollen ankle. But the good thing is I don't have to breathe through my ankle, there is no mouth there, I'm not going to have to draw any air at my ankles, so I can just lay up and rest. The problem with having adema or fluid buildup in the lungs is we're compromising our ability to simply recover. And so that's why it's such an urgent situation. And I didn't I don't think we mentioned this before we moved on here Ken. What we're describing here is a acute respiratory distress syndrome. And so that's ARDS. You may hear people in the news reference, acute respiratory distress syndrome or ARDS. This is kind of more or less getting to the point where we're spiraling a little out of control as far as the lungs are specifically. So let's look systemically or all over the body. Remember interleukin one and interleukin six. Well...
Those were the the initial inflammatory mediators set off when the virus attacked the type two pneumocyte, then the response of that is to release these inflammatory mediators.
That's correct. And they were picked up by the capillary beds. And now remember, they're not just working locally. If we have a large portion of the lungs, releasing these same mediators, they're going to eventually make their way to the central nervous system or the brain and spinal cord. They're going to trigger the hypothalamus, which will then release prostaglandins, that raises your body temperature. And guess what, that's what we end up turning into a fever. And unfortunately, fever is just going to be more work. It requires more metabolic work for your body. So we are still yet increasing the demand for oxygen. We as we referenced earlier, PaO2 remembers just a simple shorthand for the pressure of Oxygen or the number of oxygen molecules in the artery. It's low. So this is hypoxemia. Now the trigger that Lucas had whenever he ended up producing red blood cells was they his chemo receptors, noticed that they were a little bit low on oxygen carrier, so they produced more red blood cells. The chemo receptors here are going to try that. But in the interim, they're also going to trigger the sympathetic nervous system. And when they do that, that's going to set off anxiety, getting people a little bit worked up, but it's also going to be don't forget the sympathetic nervous system is your fight or flight response is going to increase your heart rate, it's going to increase your respiratory rate. That is just more work. The demand for this oxygen just keeps going up.
And all of that just on that last slide there, Eric, remember that the heart rate is that that's compensatory, because it says we're not getting enough oxygen. So if I pump faster, we'll at least get more oxygen around if I breathe in, quickly I'm hoping to bring in more oxygen in the heart tries to pump it fast. And that just becomes a bit of a slippery slope. And that's where you're going to get into right now.
You're right. And think of healthy lung at this point. If we were simply just had healthy lung at just this point and these are the triggers that high heart rate and a high respiratory rate would basically put everything at ease because hypoxemia would be solved. That's not what we're dealing with at the moment. So this is obviously a progressive disease, we have this increase in cytokines, interleukin one, six, TNF alpha, you can have what they call SIRS for short or systemic inflammatory response syndrome. Then this is kind of interchangeably been used with cytokine storm, but essentially, this is what's happening. These cytokines are triggering all levels and manners of other problems throughout the body. And what we have because of the dilation everywhere, is we have a decrease in peripheral vascular resistance, that's just the resistance that we have at the edges of our of our water, right, we have an increase in permeable capillaries that Dr. Brown described earlier just means that they become more porous. That's where we're leaking that blood plasma, the fluid when we leave that fluid that decreases our blood volume. And we have this systemic all over the body vasodilation, so all of the vessels have lost this resistance. And it's because all of the vessels are trying to get more of the blood flow, that basically we're running out of that amount of blood.
When I did Critical Care Medicine, the way to think of that when the body's when the body's trying to compensate by trying to get more blood to everything. If you open up the arteries, or if they vasodilate, and you can keep up with it. Then you get more blood flow where it needs to go. But if you can't keep up with it, imagine a hose. You know the hose that has a little nozzle on it. You can run water and that the smaller the hose, the higher the pressure it goes through. If you keep putting on bigger hoses, then it just comes out as like a little trickle. And that's what's going on and that's what creates this hypotension or severely low blood pressure.
Now it's a it's an excellent visual. Yeah, it's a high pressure with a garden hose. Same amount of water through fire hose. Not so much pressure.
Exactly. Yeah.
So just like Dr. Brown just described, we now are hypotensive. We don't have that pressure everywhere. So now we're systematically hypotensive. That comes with its own consequences. It's going to retrigger the SNS as if we didn't need more agitation.
SNS-sympathetic system: fight or flight.
Thank you for batting clean-up there. Sympathetic nervous system, there poor profusion of organs. This is where things begin to really kind of spiral out of control if we didn't get there soon enough. Okay. So we we have the lungs that's that's a set of organs right? But we've got brain, heart, liver, kidney, also very, very important. If we have poor perfusion we risk getting multi system organ failure or msof. So kidneys liver and heart. Here's here's the the reason why I'm highlighting these is these are the ones and almost in this order which will begin to throw off markers that we can we can sample for with laboratory with laboratory work and see the status of a patient. As kidneys begin to lose perfusion, they will increase our blood, our blood, blood urea nitrogen will begin to increase as well as the creatinine and it's simply because the pressure is not great enough for to be cleared by the kidneys. And the problem is is those are toxic at high levels. We don't we don't need those circulating like that. The liver itself will begin to sustain some acute damage because it's not being perfused and the wastes aren't being carried away. So we have an increase in AST increase ALT and an increase in bilirubin We also may end up detecting later as we progress an increase in C reactive protein. More interleukin six, just in case we didn't have enough of that circulating around your, your liver guy here is going through us and interleukin six as well as possibly some fibrinogen. And then if we get to this point and the heart begins to not be able to perfuse, the myocardium or the heart muscle, the heart could begin to throw off some chaperonin or CKMB markers, very similar to what we would test for for somebody who's had a heart attack. Or they may also, unfortunately be at the point that could suffer uh...
Looking at this looking at multi system organ failure. When I was a resident or when I was a medical student, you'd show up and you have to do rounds. And so you'd have your patient the attending would show up. You'd go 24 hours, what's gone on the last 24 hours you tell them you're like okay, well we've got blood pressure has consistently been dropping, we either try and keep it up or we keep an eye on it. BUN has gone up creatinines gone up. We've got a slight bump in the liver test. So far troponin is normal. And that's almost how you would say it because you're like, we're heading there. We have to stop it before. Because once that heart once you start having a heart attack, that's your last. That's that's the thing that's going to really give up, so...
No joke. There's there's a, and let's reiterate, before we get to this point, this is why we want you to know what's happening. We don't want to get to this point. We're going to reiterate what we want to steer away from.
This is why whenever they talk about the healthcare resources, why it's so important, because one thing that I want to get out there right now, because we're learning data about COVID19. And now it looks like we're getting close to 30%. I've seen some studies when you're looking at the data of young people getting it not dying, but needing hospital facilities to stop them from going into multi-organ failure. So it is no longer just very old and sick people, they just have, they already walk in before all this starts happening with some other underlying problem. We believe that's why they go into multi-organ failure quickly. So this is relevant for everybody, that this is why we need to make sure that we continue to practice social distancing so that we do not overwhelm the health care system 100%.
That's, that's what we're trying to work against, for certain. So let's look at this patient right quick. We've had a decrease in oxygen. Remember, our lungs are damaged. And I've kind of just made a summation of the workload, these are the demands, we've increased the work on the work of breathing, the fever, the heart rate, respiratory rate, the anxiety, not to mention, the organs are starved for it. We've got hypotension everywhere. We're in a little bit of trouble here. So come in, whenever, certainly when it's appropriate, and you have the right signs and symptoms which we've addressed in in the COVID files one and two and two and a half. But what will happen if you end up getting managed in this particular situation, first, they're going to try to find out how much fluids that can give you to resuscitate some of that blood volume. And it's not just as easy just giving you what's missing because remember, we have permeable capillaries, giving too much of fluids. This is a delicate balancing act, giving too much of the fluids could actually exacerbate or make the problem worse with some of the interstitial fluid bonds. So we'll be using some medicines as well. Some medicines that will help what we call pressors to bring your pressure up some diuretics to help pull off some of the excessive fluid. So there's there's a significant balance there, but
It just shows why people like you get subspecialty training and ICU doctors and pulmonologists that anybody that works in a critical care unit. That's why it's so important. They're really good at this and there's an art to it, and it requires definite increase learning not just this is what's a little bit scary. If they ask a gastroenterologist like me to come in and say, hey, look, we're losing people, we need your help in the ICU. One of the reasons why we're doing this is because as a health care worker, I feel like I need to refresh myself on things that I've not done in a long time.
That's a really good point, because a lot of what you do is a long term solution as you take care of the patient and a lot of what I do both in anesthesia and then whenever we were doing critical care is, it's very acute. It's very short term. Most of the medicines we use are, I mean, they're they're instant, they're in and they're gone, right? So it's very much like that. So what happens after this is fluids and medicines aren't going to do it. Well we need to ventilate, which is how we breathe, duh. But if you can't do it on your own, we're going to look at mechanical ventilation. That essentially means that we're going to have to insert an endotracheal tube to control the airway now. Ken at a later time or if we have enough time today, we can talk about some of the alternatives between just breathing room air to this but for this particular episode not to get too far, let's just go straight to ventilation if that's okay.
Absolutely, yeah.
Okay.
Because that's that that's what everybody's been hearing on the news also is just we're gonna run out of ventilators.
Well, yeah. Very, very good point. So some of the other stop gaps in between the cpap, the bipap and in high flow in the tents over the head. Those are all great if they work. I mean, goodness gracious, high flow nasal cannulas absolutely but there's there's peculiarities with each one of them. The critical part here is we just don't have enough ventilators if anybody gets pushed to this area. So we're going to have to connect that endotracheal tube to the ventilator. And you're gonna love this drawing. I mean, anybody would obviously recognize this anywhere that's that's definitely a ventilator, or a flux capacitor.
Yeah, I was gonna say it looks more like a flux capacitor than a ventilator but...
The blue represents the endotracheal tube that goes down through the trachea there, but I want to call your attention to one small thing, that little bitty red circle represents a balloon. We...after we put a tube into someone's trachea, we actually inflate this little balloon, and it secures the tube in place. And it gives a true closed circuit meaning air is not breathed around it, we can now control the ventilation. And in this particular case, with such a contagious virus, we can prevent the spread of the virus from coming out of the lungs and through the mouth of nose because it's closed.
That was the that was the big argument in the very beginning. Is this just droplets or can this be aerosolized and in the beginning, it felt that possibly if you don't have a closed circuit, then you're allowing somebody to aerosolize it in a room. And now we're putting healthcare workers in a room with higher amounts of virus and so the likelihood of getting infected without proper protective equipment. I think that's why health care workers are our frontline people and they're putting themselves they're heroes because people taking care of these patients especially in the beginning, that's why so many Chinese doctors died when they didn't realize what they were dealing with.
Yeah, it's it's a pretty hairy topic all around and the intermediary steps to getting someone from, you know, being able to walk around to the event, where do you stop and is there enough...is there enough PPE for the others outside of this little bitty ballooned cuff to handle that? Some things that we're going to do with and I don't want to get too deep here, but some things that someone would do when they when they put somebody on a ventilator is they would have to look at small measurements, one called tidal volume, that's just the amount of air that you're breathing in and out with each breath. If the if, for instance, the average 70 kilogram person takes in around 500 to 550 milliliters or cc's of air, which with each breath and blows it out at rest,
So that that's just your normal breathing. So everybody that's listening to this, their breathing normal, that is your tidal volume. That's what you normally do.
Correct. And the amount of times that you breathe in a minute is just a respiration rate. At rest, relatively healthy people, adults about 12 to 14 times a minute. So you can see something here though the bottom two minute volume and PEEP, those are those are our calculations and and therapies that are specific to a ventilator and minute volume is simply the respiration rate times the tidal volume. So if somebody breathes in and out 500 cc's, and they do it 12 times a minute, their minute volume would be six, six liters. Does that make sense?
It does. And I think the key here is the PEEP because this now the physiology that you taught in the beginning, pathophysiology. This is where the PEEP becomes really interesting.
Yeah. So let's, I'm so glad you said that. So everybody remember PEEP, we're going to address it. This is what the vent can do for us, and that we can't do with without it, okay. So just just looking at what we would do with someone who happens to be sick and dealing with an ARDS situation acute respiratory distress syndrome, we've lost some of the lung availability, so we can't put in the same volumes as normal. So we're gonna have to turn it down. But we want to maintain a relatively close minute volume. So we're going to increase the respiration rate to make that equation somewhat balance out. Now, that's just to get us started. Granted, we will be able to check what we call arterial blood gases and make certain that we're doing it the right way. And we can check our therapy but at the same time to get someone set up. These are some of the calculations that we would make, but what we're going to do is begin to apply PEEP, okay, and I'm going to break that down here in just a moment. But first, you may wonder why am I seeing people on TV or why do I see someone that I know who's being treated for ARDS or specifically COVID ARDS in this prone position. Prone means face down spine to the sky laying on their abdomen or stomach, and getting respiratory therapy. If you recall, I drew the heart earlier in one of the earlier slides, and I showed that the heart is located a little anterior, so towards the front, and a little bit over to the left. But essentially, when you lay on your back, that gravity is still pulling down on the heart, you're you're kind of occluding a good portion of the lungs that lay along the back part of your body. Does that make sense?
It does and I think that this is something that we need to get through because this may be early intervention. We're seeing a little bit more of this, and here's why.
Yeah, so that's exactly right. And something you can actually do at home, even if you're not feeling great. Recruitment I've written on here, increasing recruitment, recruitment just simply means I can make use of these alveoli all those allow the alveoli everywhere else. If I can use them, I'm recruiting them to be a part, right. So if the heart is more anterior and I'm getting more exposure to more lung tissue that's still healthy, I'm increasing my recruit. So we're going to have to monitor for status after we get onto a ventilator. Like I said before, we're going to look at arterial blood gases. These are just figures that we look at. I'm going to show you the numbers but you don't have to memorize them of course.
You make it seem like it's a test.
I know, I know, I want everybody to write in email. If you can recall this you can recall this slide. Normal pH which is how we measure our acidity or bass or alkalinity is 735 to 745. CO2 is 35 to 45. That's that's what we breathe out. HCO3 is bicarbonate. Okay, that's what our kidneys are doing to help give us balance. But remember, they're not being perfused so they're not really making it like they need to in our PaO2 we've referenced it several times, but that's the pressure of oxygen in the arteries. It's normally for a healthy person. 80 to 100. Well, this is what it looks like when we run the first ABG, we're going to be acidic, because we're not getting rid of waste gas, and we're not producing enough bicarb. Okay. And so our oxygen is really what we're going to have to get control of first. And then we're going to work towards a better acid base balance as we as we treat the patient.
So for non healthcare workers. This is an arterial blood gas. This is a measure when somebody is in the ICU. And these numbers tell a story, depending on what's happening, they say if you're getting slightly better, slightly worse. And by the time what's really cool, as I'm looking at all of this, usually there's involvement of multiple specialties, helping out which is why one ICU person can occupy possibly a critical care doctor, possibly infectious disease, possibly a nephrologist-a kidney doctor, and they all look at these numbers and make decisions and tweaks on the patient. This is just shows how complex a patient in the ICU really is.
Without question. Positive end-expiratory pressure.
This is our PEEP.
This is PEEP. So we drew attention to the few slides back. And if I've done a little bit better job of putting them in the correct order, we would've hopped straight to this. A healthy person when we bring them into, to the OR, and we end up having to use intubation or something like that. Super healthy, you may not have to give PEEP at all. Generally, people end up having, you know, two, three, and all the way up to five. A healthy person can have up to five centimeters of water of pressure and just represents pressure, but just look at the five. And what that does is that holds open the alveolus after you've expired gas. Now this is kind of important in that when we breathe and you're healthy, remember at the very beginning so your diaphragm pulls down, you're pulling air in your chest wall, is expanding out. It's literally pulling an external force outward to create a negative pressure to pull air in. Well, that doesn't happen with a ventilator, we're having to force air in. So we use people and healthy people, just so that we can keep recruitment up of healthy alveoli already. Well remember, right now we're not only fighting the fact that we're pushing air in, we're actually fighting the fact that we've got fluid trying to leak into our healthy alveoli. And if we lose an alveolus to consolidation, it's 99% chance that we are not going to reareate or re-recruit that alveolus we end up just losing it. So somebody who is already in ARDS, we're going to start start at 10 to 12 centimeters of water pressure for P and that's a healthy dose of P and does a few things for us for certain it keeps the alveolus open. It allows us not to give too long of a period of time of high flow oxygen which is 100% oxygen and that's a whole that's a whole 'nother issue. But it really will allow us to save good good parts of the lung. And I should say here Ken, there are possibilities of applying PEEP, where you're not necessarily intubated somebody with a cpap or bipap mask on this solely secure. You can still experience PEEP in that particular situation or even I think some high flow nasal cannulas are credited with some some portions of PEEP.
So yeah, so just the whole PEEP thing was always confusing to me when I was studying it, but the way the way that you're describing it, we know that when these alveoli start to go through that whole process that you talked about in the beginning, capillaries start dilating. Well, these, it starts to put pressure on the alveoli. And by the PEEP, you can actually force that alveoli to try and maintain at least some gas exchange so that the leakiness and the fluid creeping in doesn't win. It doesn't completely close off the alveoli.
100%. It's this, the PEEP is...you're exactly right. The peak is literally there, not only to keep the alveolus open, but in this particular situation on an ARDS patient, we've increased it because we need that extra help to help keep that fluid at bay in the capillary bed. We're not we've already lost the part of the lung right now during this disease state that we can't re recruit while it has fluid in it and is going through its consolidation phase. We need to maintain what we still have. So I wrote right here, increase area recruitment, maybe. It's a really, really, really slight, maybe. We're doing that but by proning and turning down. We're doing that by oh, and Ken you've seen these beds before, there are beds that actually are are specific for ARDS patients where you lay them in prone, but they actually turn them from side to side and move them around. And that's literally to increase and maintain the area of recruitment,
And those are very high level high specialty beds, specifically only for this type of patient. And there's if we are, we have few ventilators, we got even fewer of those real specialty beds.
That's exactly what I was thinking. But we our main job here with PEEP, our main job here with the ventilation is to preserve the area of recruitment. And of course with the PEEP like as I mentioned earlier, we want to decrease the need for 100% O2. Some people have even even to ask why. Why would you want to do that? The here's the danger of the fine line here working through mechanical ventilation. Yeah, so to higher pressure. So we want to be able to dial in and give someone enough of the air that they need to ventilate. We've lost part of the lungs, so that's going to increase the pressure if we don't dial back the volumes etc, etc. Just remember, if we are apply too much pressure, we can actually spread ARDS because we're causing damage to healthy tissue. If we give 100% oxygen for too, for too long, we can actually spread ARDS because it leaves reactive oxygenation species, which is exactly what the neutrophils were using to destroy what remained of the virus and unfortunately, healthy tissue.
I know this is not ventilators are not like the way I treat a microwave which is just on high every time and just turn it on and let it roll. Ventilators...it's such a it's such a nuanced art. And, you know, and nobody's discussing that on the news where they're like, you know, we're going to run out of vents Well, we're also going to run out of people like you that know how to run these vents. So, you know, and I, this was not to scare anybody, this is not to get too sciency. You and I talked about this. I feel that here on gut check project COVID files, we see that there are going to be some doctors. And when I was watching the Joe Rogan show, they were they were talking about how doctors are stepping up, they're switching and trying to help out in this area. And I know that there are probably some doctors like me that are like, okay, I want to help out. There's going to be or if we get recruited to get in there, then I better do a refresher course. And all I have are a bunch of, you know, really old textbooks that will take a long time to get through. This is just the beginning of something so that they can at least go talk to a family member maybe so that maybe other people will go oh, I understand why my grandpa's on a ventilator now, not necessarily to COVID. This is just what happens. So I really appreciate you taking the time to do that. I think this is the opportunity to teach a lot more people about this kind of thing. And hopefully this will spread with some healthcare workers. So it will make them feel more comfortable.
And when I told you that was a a because you only asked me a couple days ago if I could, if I would consider, you know, kind of throwing these together and, and I threw something by you. I said what, what would you think if somebody kind of had an idea on something they could implement that actually would be positioning, but not necessarily related to ventilation? And then you threw out the idea of what how did you say if you feel like you're getting sick, and you're not feeling well get ahead of the curve, lay down down on your stomach...why you kind of talk about...
Well, it was just one of those things. So an ER doc did an observation. And he he published something where he showed that he actually published it on Twitter, of a patient on there in the prone position on their phone, kind of said when she was on her back, she was struggling. So when when she rolled over, she could breathe easier. I think one of the problems is when we feel real sick, and we're just laying in the same position the whole time by rolling around and at least laying on your stomach for a bit...then you could switch to your side and back to your stomach. This is the same thing you're talking about this could actually help recruit. And in the early stages might be able to buy a little time. And maybe ER doctors watching this would understand, okay, if somebody comes in, put them on their belly, then we can do some of these other things like high flow nasal cannula, or this this particular guy was looking at it and he was trying to give a whole flow gram of what he's been doing, and preventing people from going on ventilators. So it's a it's a really cool concept. And by understanding the pathophysiology that you explained...now that makes sense, why that could be a way to help people out.
It's interesting that you say in that in those terms, too. And what it is he's doing with the flow gram because it reminds me back when I first started helping manage some, some ARDS patients. We were told that it's just not common to have to get into this. It's not commonplace to have to always do ARDS patients. It's usually your larger hospitals that really kind of encounter those right?
Yeah.
So being reminded of that, I will say that the one takeaway I had from well over a decade ago is whenever somebody is in ARDS, they can't be proned fast enough. They they cannot be proned fast enough, nobody will say that's too early, you know, actually getting ahead of the curve. Recognizing that you're having a loss of gas exchange real estate built, get some for yourself lay down on your stomach begin to breathe. It doesn't matter if you look a little funny. So what saves your life. But if you began to feel sick or have shortness of breath while you're waiting for someone to go and seek help for you, get yourself in that position so I mean, ER, home, waiting to get a ride,, whatever it takes.
Because well, yeah, I mean, so if this actually pans out, this may make a big difference, especially if what what he discovered. So we have a lot more cpap machines available and bipap machines, which are just the same thing that many people have obstructive sleep apnea. If what he's suggesting is that he's seen people he'll put prone put them on a bipap or a cpap machine, increase the PEEP. Basically that's what they're doing is increasing the PEEP, put them on a prone position and saving them from going on a vent. There's a lot of people with cpap machines next to their bed including this guy right here talking. I've got apnea, and I wear a little nasal pillow. I know I'm not alone because Chang Raun did a social media post about how people if you have sleep apnea, then you're going to be at risk for developing something, also. So make sure you wear your CPAP machine if it's dusty in the closet.
Yeah, that article. I found that really interesting how, how well he described being able to do some of the intermediary steps to cpaps the high flow nasal cannula. I don't disagree with the thing that he's saying the and he even addresses it in there. If you could just simply answer the question of the danger of the aerosolization of the disease versus preventing someone from having to get some mechanical ventilation, but the one thing he uses that several people still do is the rocks equation know the threat. But essentially you're taking some status measurements to see...okay, are we beyond any of these intermediary steps, do we need to move to a ventilation? But I think I think that his piece is...it preserves equipment, it still requires people that don't feel well, they feel like that they're beginning to lose their breath to go seek help now.
Yeah, that's, that's, that's the key people are like, well, when should I go in? And, you know, the ERs are trying to say, well, if you've got a mild fever and see if you can ride it out if you can do this, but the second any shortness of breath starts happening, I think you got to get in and get some of this equipment on you to prevent you from going into ARDS. It's almost like you have an obligation to get there before because it's becoming a slippery slope, then.
Hey, you know, Mike wrote that question over to you and I and he was asking specifically about the healthcare worker, and younger people, you and I kind of have similar takes on what we think and maybe maybe slightly different. Did you have an idea on what you thought could possibly total theory but just could possibly be lending itself to younger people or healthcare workers?
Yeah, I mean, my my view on the healthcare worker is just repeated exposure and repeated exposure and repeated exposure. You took a little different take on it on the workload. So tell, go ahead and tell me your take on that one.
I mean, I number one, I completely agree with repeated exposure. I think that somebody who's healthy and they're a healthcare worker, they probably can fend off a couple of small assaults, right. But if it's continuing to attack other healthy pneumocytes, kind of what we laid out today that you're going to initiate a cytokine storm, unfortunately for somebody else who had they just small, you know, had a small encounter probably wouldn't even notice that they have been contaminated. But yes, the workload, ultimately, that's, that's the sign of failure for really any organ system is their workload, and there's just not enough supply whatever that supply happens to be for any one of our organs. So when the lungs just simply cannot produce and share enough oxygen for the rest of the body, but the rest of the body is churning and it's programmed responses to basically kind of amp up. It's a tough scenario to work out on one's own without some medical intervention for sure.
Mm hmm. And that's it. So that's a really good point that maybe the healthcare workers themselves number one, repeated exposure, but number two, are still yeah, they're still running around still, you know, busting their butt and, you know, maybe subtle changes in that tidal volume like you're talking about is really what what starts the downhill, slippery slope. So, but it's so you know, the whole point is to educate on this and hopefully, if a healthcare worker gets something out of it, that's why we're doing this one. Normally, I think you and I try to be a little bit more lighthearted and jokey but I asked you as a favor to me to refresh my memory. So thank you very much for doing that. I've I'm dusting the cobwebs off, but I think that...
If you have any specific questions and if I can answer them, shoot, I don't mind answering questions about vents or any of that kind of stuff. So any questions about any of the episodes you know, you can always email us at kbmdhealth.com go to contact us and let us know or gutcheckproject.com same thing. Well, probably...
You know what, I mean I think that's thing once we get on Instagram, I have a I would like if anybody is a healthcare worker, a respiratory tech or an ICU doctor and ICU nurse and we got something wrong let us know because...
Oh, yeah.
This is this is not you know. My specialty is a gastroenterologist so this is a learning curve for me on this one, but yeah, I think we did. We're right at about right at about 55 minutes or so. So we try to keep this around an hour we you know, and see what we can do and you covered a lot of material in an hour, so that's awesome. That is absolutely awesome.
Hey, man, my dry erase board is worn out.
Yeah. Oh, Yeah, because you would have to erase...oh, you only had one.
Man it was it was it was draw, take a picture and then wipe it away. Yeah and unfortunately I didn't have I didn't have Gauge or Mac available to help me kind of sketch those out because those are really really rough Picassos I just threw together.
Yeah and you know what it looks like your drawing skills were just starting to improve if you would have done a little bit started looking like real lungs.
If only you knew how long it took me just to print the words I used.
Well, that's awesome. All right, well, I'm gonna call this our COVID-19 file number three in the books. Share it with somebody if you think that they could benefit from this information. So great job, Eric.
We'll see y'all next time. Thank you.
Take care.
All right, welcome to the gut check project. We're going to call this episode COVID two and a half. It's going to be a shorter form. And in lieu of my regular host, I have asked my gastroenterology partner, Dr. Stuart Akerman to join us. Because what we wanted to do is go over two recent journal pre proofs one of them being accepted in the journal of gastroenterology and the other one with the American College of gastroenterology both actually augment each other and I think it's a great opportunity to look at something that a lot of people may not realize. Dr. Akerman, thank you so much for joining me on this lovely Sunday morning, March 29 2020.
Thank you so much for having Dr. Brown. And as you can see, we're both in our respective social isolation bunkers. While we have a conversation over the internet to talk about these two interesting articles, you know, the data coming out of China is fast and fast and loose. It just more information comes out every day and thankfully people are aggregating it and analyzing it so that we can get a better plan of attack against this viral pandemic.
Exactly. Right now, to date 683,641 people have COVID19 32,144 have died worldwide. Unfortunately, the US numbers continue to go up. We're at 123,828. 2,229 people have died from COVID 19. So I really admire the scientists around the world. It is like drinking from a fire hydrant at times when you go down these rabbit holes. But fortunately, these scientists put together data in two journals that you and I know it's very hard to get into, very highly respected the American Gastroenterology Association Journal and the American College of Gastroenterology. So I'm in...
And I just want to point out, you know, in case people are starting to feel like maybe things are turning here in the United States, you know, we're still very much in the thick of it and this is applicable every single day all over because, you know according to our current analysis, cases are getting diagnosed and doubling at a rate every two days. We're very much still in the thick of this increase in the curve
100% and one thing that we're going to be discussing today is we may be missing a lot of these people. And we may be missing a very important route of how we could be infecting each other. So let's just jump right into this because the science is well for you and it's pretty interesting because it really involves us if you're wondering why two gastroenterologist are talking about a virus. Neither one of us are virologists or infectious disease doctors, who are most of the people out there talking Well, now we got to play a big role in this. So let's talk about the first article. The title is COVID19 gastrointestinal manifestation, and potential fecal oral transmission. This article is out of Shanghai. Dr. Akerman, I will just throw it to you real quick that, can you give us an overview of this article?
Yes. So this article is, like you said, coming out of Shanghai, it talks about patients that were tested for COVID19 and found very positive and that even after discharge, so in other words, they did well, they thankfully recovered. And this is not, you know, similar to what's happening to us. This is not someone who, you know, was sick for a day or two, they may have been ill possibly ventilated in the hospital for weeks on end, discharged, and still displaying evidence of virus on stool specimens that were taken to culture.
Absolutely, because right now, the way that most people and certainly at the time when China was doing this, everybody to try and detect SARS, CoV2 the virus that causes COVID19. There, you're doing throat swabs. And what they're looking for is the viral load right there and I will say that on a prior episode, we discussed how this is 1000 times more contagious than the SARS 2003 outbreak, and they're actually showing much higher viral loads in the back of the throat. So it makes sense that that's where we're going. But now there's evidence that non respiratory routes like you're talking about include the digestive system. Now one of the theories behind that is is that the same receptor that the virus binds to called the h2 receptor, is heavily concentrated in the gastrointestinal tract, and also the lungs. And so once the virus comes in, it sees this receptor, it gets integrated into the cell. And then once it's there, it hijacks the cell, and that's how it replicates. So the implication that the gut is involved is huge. So what's really I think, fascinating is that these guys figured this out and figured out a test to actually look for in the stool.
That's right, and there are two. There are two laboratories in China that are currently successfully isolating it from the stool using PCR techniques. And hopefully we'll be able to commercialize that in the near future to have it available for water distribution. You know, it's a big deal to be able to isolate the live virus because evidence of virus is not the same as viral activity or active infection. And what they found in this study is that they have essentially proof of live virus and if live virus is shedding, that means that the patients can still be contagious can still give it to other people and act as vectors.
100%. In fact, there's we're probably missing a lot of people because this article goes on to say that this appears to show this fecal oral route the next article goes way deeper into it, and that's where we get into the nuts and bolts. They did reference in 2003, remember that this virus is very similar in structure to the SARS 2003 virus, that is the coronavirus so when they say novel, coronavirus, it's it causes a different type of infection. But a lot of the data they do look back and go, oh, SARS 2003 did this. What they did show is that some of those people had liver damage. And on liver biopsies back then they showed hepatitis. And they were questioning whether it was due to drugs or whether it was actually due to the virus. And the next article, the next article we get into really goes a little bit more into that. These guys even implied that if it binds to the h2 receptor, then there's h2 receptors in the GI tract, but also in the liver, which is something that you're very familiar with and even the bile ducts or cholangiocytes, can you explain everybody what that aspect means and that part of the gastrointestinal system?
Yeah absolutely. So the liver is an organ that we have it sits in the right side of our body and it helps kind of like a filtration system. And there are many, many different injuries that can happen to the liver. I think the most common ones, we think about our viral illnesses like Hepatitis B and Hepatitis C, we talk about fatty liver disease a lot lately, and then probably the most common is alcoholic liver injury, right? If you drink either enough or enough over time, you start damaging those cells. But the liver has different kinds of cells there or the liver, liver tissue cells themselves, which are called hepatocytes. And then there's an intricate bile system called the bile ducts, kind of like a tree where all the branches are sitting in the liver and they drain down to the trunk, and that trunk exits out of the liver goes through your pancreas, and then empties into the small intestine. So when we talk about digestion and bile flow, we're talking about bile which originates in the liver and the cells that line that are called cholangiocytes. And in reference to this article, they found that h2 expression is significant in cholangiocytes in about 60% of cells and hepatocytes, maybe a little bit less, only about 3%. So to be more specific when we're talking about the potential for liver injury, yes, liver injury in general, but in specific, a lot of bile duct injury, also called cholangiopathy, or cholangitis.
So I want to clarify the Dr. Akerman this is actually his subspecialty. He is trained extra for one particular thing, which is to do this invasive procedure called an ERCP, which is a life saving procedure for some people, where he actually goes into this bile duct and can remove stones and things like that. While you were talking. I was thinking, wow, if it's upregulated, there were gastroenterologists we may be more exposed than we actually thought you may be more exposed than me. Now after hearing that, yeah, we're doing really...
Yeah and unfortunately there's not much PPE that we can use for things like that. We have to be extra vigilant to be sure that we're not being exposed, or at least the least amount possible. While we try to help people with emergencies.
I know as soon as you said that, I was saying thinking oh my goodness, how many people can come in with elevated liver test etiology unclear? Is it COVID and we're gonna get into the next article, which really gets you thinking about how many people may be may be missing. So just to summarize, this first article was really just showing kind of the basis that look, there is a potential way that the virus can get into the gastrointestinal tract. The next article, which in my opinion is a little goes into some really cool data about different things. And then this is where after that I want to expand on some different ideas about where we think this is heading on a gastrointestinal standpoint, what are the implications of all this? This one has been accepted, it's a preprint that's been accepted into the what we call the red journal, which is the American College of Gastroenterology. The title is clinical characteristics of COVID 19 patients with digestive symptoms in Hubei, China, a multi-center study. So long winded title, basically these guys, and I really admire them for doing this. They just keep going back looking at the data, this same group had published something earlier in the month, I mean, in one month to come out with two different articles is pretty amazing. This is what they're doing is they're looking in an aggregate of patients, and they looked at 204 patients with COVID 19. And of course, most of them presented with fever and the usual things, but then they started going, wait a minute. Now let's go back and start asking questions. Let's go back and look at their charts. So this is sort of a chart analysis. This one I think, is a little bit more interesting. Why don't you give just a quick overview of your take on this article, Dr. Akerman?
Yeah, so I agree this, this was a little more nitty gritty and looked at actual patient data analysis and provided a lot more information. So in this study, they looked at 204 patients, the average age of the patient was 53, which I think is a really important piece of information because we keep talking about how patients over 60 over 70 are high risk patients. But you know, an infection sometimes doesn't know age. And most patients almost almost all presented initially, or at least presented for their COVID diagnosis, I would say, with respiratory symptoms, but when they looked at their overall symptoms, not just focusing on their cough and shortness of breath and things along the respiratory side, they found that 50% of the patients had digestive symptoms as well.
Stop right there. Say that one more time.
Yeah, so in addition to the respiratory symptoms, nearly more than one in two patients had some sort of digestive issue as well that they were noticing with the onset of their symptoms,
And we won't we're going to get into those digestive symptoms, but I thought something very interesting that when they looked back 78.6, almost 80% of the people had anorexia. Meaning they were not hungry, and that there's a relevance to this. And I'm going to I'm going to piece it together later. But yeah, you're doing a great job, but it didn't mean to interrupt there.
Okay, no worries. So, yeah, like you said, you know, almost as 78% of patients had some form of a lack of appetite or anorexia, a third of patients had diarrhea. And several of them also had abdominal pain and vomiting. You know, things we don't necessarily associate with a respiratory illness like, like a pneumonia or bronchitis.
100% I do want to point out that the diarrhea, this is what's really interesting, because, I mean, this is something you and I deal with every single day people come in and they this is this is our bread and butter. What I was shocked on this article is that the diarrhea was not that severe. And it was actually three loose stools a day on but as the disease got worse, the diarrhea got worse. So I would not even think I'm not as a ER doctor ICU Doctor, I wouldn't be going, oh, do you have diarrhea? and somebody's like, listen, I'm feeling pretty bad here. Yeah, I guess I got three loose stools a day. How long has that been going on? I don't know, two weeks. Now think about that. This is what I'm implying that maybe that because the other really interesting thing about this study that I found incredible was all the people with gastrointestinal symptoms, or the majority presented after having symptoms for 8.1 days, as opposed to the people that just presented with respiratory symptoms that presented earlier, which means these people were out in the community longer before they came in. So is it plausible that the gastrointestinal symptoms were there and they were ignoring them? And then it became pulmonary, which then brought them into the hospital?
Right? They make that comment to that effect, and it seems that there was a delay in diagnosis and the patients who had gastrointestinal symptoms, and you know, you can make the argument that it might be like you said, right, someone called and said hey, you know, I've got this vague abdominal discomfort, I'm not really that hungry, my bowel habits are starting to change, I'm getting a little bit of looser stool and, you know, someone might say, you know, we've got other things going on, you know, try some Imodium for a couple days, take it easy, you know, give me a call back if you're not feeling well. And then two, three days later now also you got the pulmonary symptoms, and you know, everyone that is on top of that getting tested and, you know, seeing who needs isolation who needs to be admitted and treated. But the one of the wake up calls from this article is, maybe we have to start paying attention, maybe those patients that call and they're having new onset symptoms, you know, not someone who has maybe chronic symptoms that get exacerbated, but someone who hasn't been having any kind of abdominal discomfort or has bowel regularity, and all of a sudden they're off. You know, do those people have to be in a heightened state of awareness and say to that, well, they don't necessarily have to run to a hospital. But maybe you say to them, you know what, I need to follow up with you in a day or two because I needed to know if those symptoms are evolving, and if we have to take this in a different in a different route.
So can you imagine that the first article that we discussed, we talked about companies developing a rapid acid to see if there's viral shedding in the stool? So now we're gonna I mean, mark my word once it becomes easy, this will be the norm for us. Just as like when somebody has significant diarrhea. We do our C diff testing, we do our stool culture. We do fecal leukocytes, lactoferrin, calprotectin, all these things that we do as specialists, we're going to end up looking for SARS CoV2 coming out in the stool with this if we can develop a rapid test.
Yeah, I mean, I think the possibilities are I don't want to say endless but but there's, there's many, you know, Dr. Brown and I utilize the services of a large pathology lab in the East Coast that has currently had to close down production of their stool tests until we figure out what's going on in COVID because of these two studies that are showing the potential for special In the fecal oral route, because they don't know if all the samples that they're processing might have COVID in them. But imagine if there was rapid testing. And they can add that to their one day turnaround test for acute bacterial and viral infections. It could be a game changer.
Yeah. And I actually admire them for taking the aggressive route of stopping business because there is the potential that they're exposing their employees to this. And then of course, part of me is just like, no, you're the one person needs to keep going and help us figure this out. But we're all learning as we go here. So now, this is also something in this study when they looked back. Well, first of all, let's talk about how the people that that had gastrointestinal symptoms tended to have more severe disease, those that had liver issues needed more meds, and anti microbials and things like that showing that once it somehow affects the liver now whether it's the drugs or whether it's the virus attaching. The one thing I'm a little bit disappointed in this study is that they did not list what the alkaline phosphatase was. And just explain that because in the first part of this, we talked about the cholangiocytes.
Right so, you know, this is, this is how it works in the medical field, you know, when you publish, you know, you have a lot of a lot of effort, a lot of sort of sweat and tears that go into analyzing and publishing your data. And then everyone kind of gets to sit around and then reanalyze it and ask all the questions, and it's
Gee it's almost like a lawyer looking at a medical file, isn't it?
Yeah, it's, it's kind of similar. So you know, we have the ability to look at both of these studies to get all that data together, and then look at it and analyze it. And now that we have the data from the first study, which, you know, tells us how this preferential expression of h2 in the cholangiocytes in the bile ducts, it'd be more interesting for us to know, okay, well do the signs and symptoms, meaning the laboratory values of cholangiopathy and inflammation and irritation of the bile duct, do they go up in preference? So when you look at we talk about this a lot and patients here saying, oh, I just need you to go get your liver tests done. What does that really mean? What that means is there's a panel that pretty much every lab the United States does for us, that looks at several different markers. And some of those markers reflect the liver tissue itself, the hepatocytes, some of those markers more reflect the bile ducts or the cholangiocytes. And in this study, they really focused more on the hepatocyte markers than the cholangiocytes markers, and it might be an opportunity for us going forward to look back at these patients who are COVID positive pull their liver test, and in particular, look at this alkaline phosphatase and bilirubin levels, which are more reflective of the cholangiopathy and see, does it go up? Is there a specific value does it go up two time's upper low normal four times five times is there a correlation that we can make with the severity of the disease?
Okay, quick side, rabbit hole here. This is what happens when you do a podcast with somebody with ADD. You just got me thinking about something. So a lot of people that are dying in the ICU, they're dying and multi organ failure and sepsis, obviously pneumonia, we've been blaming the pneumonia. What if there could be a component of some colangitis, for instance, causing this colangitis is the infection that can happen in the bile ducts where it it can't get out where the basically the bowel can't get out. Now, I just thought about something wild and this is this is your I'm challenging you to do this as...on the fly. Could you imagine? So what Dr. Akerman does is he gets into the bile duct and frequently he places plastic stents or stents to open things up. They I just got an article which showed so you know, my world is this molecule of polyphenols. That's where I do a lot of research. That's where we see, we now realize that these polyphenols have antiviral activity, they have antimicrobial activity. I just was sent a pre proof on possibly making polyphenol masks and polyphenol disinfecting cloths because it's that effective. In fact, we're talking about a rapid test on last on COVID to show there's a German company that actually is doing an asa rapid asa to do a filtration, what's called an agglutination test where they put the SARS CoV-2 virus and then they put it in with quercetin and luteolin which are polyphenols, and then they tag those and if it clumps, they know that that's doing it. That's how strongly it binds so just thinking like that coding stents with possibly hydroxychloroquine possibly polyphenols, possibly other anti things that could be really interesting, because if the concentration of virus is in the bile duct, you may end up having something to directly combat the virus,
Right, it's almost akin to placing radiation beads for local tumors where, instead of treating the entire body, you focus your efforts on the one area that's problematic and just try to focus on it instead, you know, kind of like just to localized therapy and sometimes that works better than the systemic therapy.
I, I'm really proud of you as a, as a clinician to not tell me to stop recording and get up and go, I'm gonna go work on this right now. This could be my thing.
Well, hopefully enough people see this and enough bright minds are getting tasked to it right away. I know,
That just just hit me coding a stent with an antiviral in because one thing that we're going to learn about this, these numbers are are there but until we come up with a true vaccine, which is not going to happen for quite a while, these other treatments are really good. This is not going to be a blizzard and then we're done. I feel like this is going to be seasons, it's going to come and do this. It how infective it is. So maybe starting to think about something like that is really cool. That was quick side note. So.
Yeah but you know what? It's relevant, right? Because the reality is right now, we're focusing on isolating the individuals, and then essentially treating them with supportive therapy, right? If you can't breathe, and we have to put you on a ventilator, that helps you breathe to give you time to fight the virus, right? I mean, we there's a lot of talk about, you know, plaquenil and chloramphenicol. And then these, you know, other azithromycin and all these drug combinations that may or may not have benefit. And, you know, the reason is simple. We don't have a treatment currently, which is true of many viruses, right? Many viruses. There are some that we have antivirals for and they have specific actions against that virus like HIV and hepatitis B and hepatitis C, but we don't have direct therapies right now. We're really, you know, sort of playing defense rather than on offense. And if we can figure out a way to, you know, figure out which individuals would benefit from specific therapies and then have those targeted therapies available. It could change the entire landscape of the disease.
Oh, it could totally like if we realized that I mean, we could do this in our hospital where we're at we're kind of a funnel hospital we get a lot of the people are not a lot but if we could look at those charts, and say somebody has presented with a fever and cough they now imagine the flow of this. Okay, so somebody comes in says, I have a fever and a cough. I'm not feeling well I've got myalgia. Okay, let's do a SARS test throat swab. Next thing is, Do you recall not wanting to eat we're going to get into that in a second. Do you recall having a change in your ability to smell? Have you had any change in your bowel habits, then it becomes test the stool while they get it admitted, alkaline phosphatase is up. And then it's like Dr. Akerman, we needed to get in there we believe this person is going to have a worse outcome. Because it is now in the liver. It is in the cholangiocytes, we believe we know that they have COVID 19 your role could be a play something which is really cool.
Yeah. And it's interesting. You brought that up about the sense of smell or anosmia. Actually, it was my sister in law, Dr. Rachel K over and Rutgers University who started noticing that about some of the COVID patients and just relentlessly looked into this and found out that that is a significant symptom that is a common thread across all these COVID patients.
Absolutely. And so when I saw the anorexia and the first article published at the very at the end of February where they were discussing gastroenterologist perspective on COVID, I don't know if you remember that it was it was with our Neal Brannon and a few of our other of our, you know, well known academic publish...
Published in GIE.
Yeah, yeah, they were talking well, gi issues are not a big deal. And they threw out the anorexia, which now I'm throwin' it back in because I see people with a disease called dysgeusia, which is chang in taste. And we frequently get people to come and go, you know, I'm just not smelling right. And we check their vitamin levels and all this other stuff. So I believe that that is a gastrointestinal symptom, it is an EMTs symptom as well. So I when you look at that, I think the sense of smell and that is become kind of sensationalized right now in the news, for some reason people find that fascinating to write about, but that's impressive that your sister in law was paying attention to that, which is exactly why we should be paying our fields to be paying attention to the mild diarrhea type thing, but we should be really paying attention to the anorexia, anosmia, which is what that's called, which is lack of sense of smell.
Yeah, and you know, that might be a method for us to triage patients right based on their symptoms because like you said, we see diarrhea all the time. This is this is what we do. Right? If you have diarrhea, you talk to a gastroenterologist so how do we, as sort of the gatekeepers figure out, you know who we can just say, you know what, just stay home it's totally okay. And who are the and you can see my daughter in the background here this is what happens when you do it in the in the home office rather than doing it in the studio, but this is how we have to figure out maybe...
Well, this is funny because I'm you know, we're all watching a lot of news and it's just, it's a lot of people are recording from home and stuff like that. Just out of nowhere, a cat will jump on somebody's lap and be like oh, look at that, live shot.
Just play it off.
Yeah.
But, you know, maybe we need to have a little mental checklist right? If a patient comes to you and says, You know what? I started having some diarrhea the last few days. I'm a little worried. I've learned about some of these things. He's You know, we've been talking about it in the press, do you think that I have COVID? You could say then, well, ok, what are your other symptoms? Do you have any kind of change in your appetite? Do you have a change in your smell? Have you had any abdominal discomfort, nausea and vomiting. And if you've got kind of enough of those things stacking up, you know, we don't have enough resources right now to go tell them to go get COVID testing, right? We can't send every single patient that has the symptoms. So how are we going to figure that out? Maybe we check liver tests, right? Maybe we send that patient and go get a pretty simple, easy blood test. And if their liver tests are abnormal along with it, maybe that index of suspicion now goes higher. Maybe we say to them, you know what? Maybe we're catching this before you get your respiratory symptoms. Let's get you swabbed.
Yeah swabbed or fecal tests we can do this. I want to talk I want to finish up this article. And then I want to talk about a few other things because this is an ever expanding deal. I have actually spent all week I did three shows this past week with doctors with specialists, and I've been reading, I'm just nau...I'm not nauseous because I don't want to sit there.
Yeah we don't have to worry about putting you through the algorithm right now.
Yeah, we don't want to do that. But alright, so I thought, well, this is very interesting. Some interesting thoughts as what I'm going to call it. Most people in this study could not recall a clear exposure. So it's not like, oh, I was in and this is a Chinese study. And so it's not like I was in Wuhan, my brother came back from Wuhan, because I got I have other things that we'll talk about that average time the hospital was 8.1 days. So it was beginning of symptoms that they could track back. So they're asking the gastrointestinal symptoms 8.1 days, imagine I'd love to sit with your sister in law and say, what if the anosmia the sense of smell starts going away before that? Different theories to that Ear, Nose and Throat doctors have been showing that that happened in SARS 2003. I just got an article here sent to me this morning that shows that it could be related to the microbiome. And we'll get into that next. But there it appears that this virus could have a partner in crime called a Prevotella bacteria, which may be causing the severe pneumonia. Separate, very detailed thing to talk about. Here's something else that I was surprised about this. Everybody's like, well, people are dying. But, you know, the...China didn't know what to do. Did you see that? 90% of these people received antiviral therapy. China was all over it, man. They were trying everything.
Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, their pandemic response, you know, after getting caught a little bit flat footed in 2003. It was nothing short of amazing. Right. I mean, they shut borders. They shut down cities as quickly as they could, and you know what I mean? That's why that they're finally falling on the other side of the curve.
Yeah. And they had, you know, 7.8% of these people went to the ICU with a death rate of 17%, which is much better than what we initially saw where it was, like 87% of people that went on a vent died. But I don't know if if we're as aggressive to throw drugs at people as possibly they were, I don't know if we have our hands tied here by the FDA. I don't know if our physicians are just trained in a different way where it's like, that's not standard of care.
Right. Some might just be culture, right? We're more focused on diagnostics to sort of say, rather than throw everything in the kitchen sink, let's figure out what makes sense, right. I mean, especially as we get into this era of antibiotic stewardship, where we're worried that a lot of our, you know, older generation drugs are losing their efficacy because we've used them too frequently, and there's resistance that's built up. I think we've all sort of gotten on that train, where we want to make sure that we're not just using it to use it right. You get this a lot when you see the primary care doctor and you've got a cough, and you say to them oh I just need an antibiotic. And they say, Well, you know, 90% of these are viral and antibiotics not going to do anything. So, you know, let's wait and see how it goes. And sometimes that's frustrating as a patient. But, you know, by not taking that antibiotic, you're kind of doing your your public health initiative on your own, that you haven't created more resistance.
Even if it's not a resistance thing. Every time you take an antibiotic, you're just disrupting your own microbiome, and you need that microbiome to keep you healthy. It keeps your immune system healthy. Yeah. You did mention flattening the curve, the average hospital stay was 17 days. So we frequently talk about this everybody's like flattening the curve flattening the curve. What that means is that's an epidemiologic term called R0 R, little zero. And that means that at least I have not looked at it in the last week but at least a week ago the R0 in the United States was one person gets infected can infect three others that's what the R0 means and the reason
Yeah 2.5 to 3 i think is the current numbers.
And then with a hospital stay of 17 days, when I listened to Peter Addy as podcasts where he had an infectious disease doctor from New York on there, they did the math on when we will run out of beds. And that's the scary thing. Because if you need some sort of respiratory support, if you need some sort of IV treatment, there will be no beds to do that. That's why we all have to do our part and have remote podcasts here where we have special guests in the background. So
Yeah, and I think anyone who's been paying attention to the news is not immune to what's going on around the country. I mean, you might not live in New York, but you're gonna be well aware of what's happening. I mean, there are hospitals that have run out of space in the morgue, and they have to set up external refrigeration sites in their parking lots. I mean, it's, this is this is real, right? And we have to do what we can to try to flatten that curve, right. Both On the healthcare provider sides figure out, you know, who needs help quickly? How do we isolate them? How do we prevent the spread? And from from everyone else, too, right? I mean, we talked about staying at home and avoiding spread. And it goes to exactly what you just said, if you have the virus, and you might have it for 2, 3, 4 weeks, there's some data to say that there could be an incubation period, longer than we thought, right? We keep talking about two weeks and self quarantine for two weeks. But there's some data that's come out that shows that it might be as long as 28 days. So you might be completely fine, feel great. But you're shedding that virus and you walk around and you go to the grocery store, and you come in contact with 15 people, right? Doing the math, those 15 people now can infect another for another 45 and those 45 and so on and so forth. And, you know, sometimes people it's hard to see if someone's not ill, right, it's hard to internalize that that can be happening.
So let's let's talk about that analogy that you just said about going to the super market now in the first article, we discussed a fecal oral route and everybody's like, I'm not exactly at risk. Well, here's, here's how you're at risk the viruses. If you're shedding shedding it in your stool and you use the restroom, and you don't effectively clean your hands, then anything you touch may pass it. And I just thought about going to the supermarket and picking up the pi...the grapefruit or whatever, looking at it, holding it, putting it back, getting a different one. That could be a transmissible thing,
Right? That's exactly it. Right? Most people and I don't know the numbers on this, but let me just look around what happens what what you yourself do, right? You might look at a box and try to read the ingredients and you're like, you know, maybe this isn't what I want right now. You put it back on the shelf. And you know, I think a lot of times when you say fecal oral people think I don't have stool in my hands. It's not an issue. That's not what we're saying right? Effective hand washing, which is 20 seconds. Getting between the fingers getting under the fingernails using hot water. You might be in a rush, you might not do it, maybe you don't know that you need 20 seconds. So you've got these little microscopic particles on your hands that are now touching the doorknob touching the handles touching the inside of your car when you go and you know, you could just who knows where it's going.
Speaking of who knows why in the world, did everybody went out and get all the toilet paper? I'm still confused by that. As a gastroenterologist I did not understand that.
Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure but I would definitely recommend that if someone needs that much toilet paper, they should get evaluated by one of us.
if you were hoarding and you're going through that, please, it's time to get checked. Something else fascinating in this that they speculated something really tied to our field, which now may change our interactions with our critical care Doc's and our pulmonologist. Did you see that this these infections may affect the microbiome and I say the Prevotella bacteria may be contributing to this, and they refer to this as how does this affect the gut lung access? I was talking about the gut brain access. Now these guys were referring to gut lung. Is it possible that by not having a healthy gastrointestinal system, you're then predisposing yourself to possible lung injury? Fascinating thing that they brought up.
Yeah, it's it's a very interesting point, right? Because you sort of think of immunosuppression as a global or systemic issue. Right? You're either immunosuppressed or you aren't. But does maybe poor gi microbe or gut microbiome health lead to sort of a cascade of events that ends with, you know, susceptibility to lung injury and infection as well.
I mean, I have talked when I did Dr. Chang Raun's summit with a bunch of other doctors like Dr. Mark Hyman. We talked about the possibility that having a gastrointestinal tract which could be more permeable could allow infections to take place and allow it to get into your into your bloodstream and get into and turn on your immune system, since the get people with gastrointestinal symptoms tended to have a worse outcome, or at least they were sicker. Is that possible that the cytokine storm that we talked about starts in the gastrointestinal tract sets off the inflammatory cascade? So that's the little things that we that we're thinking about. I have...do you have anything else to add on this particular article?
No, I mean, I think we talked about a lot and excuse me, I do think, you know, again, the take home points are that, not that we want to, you know, raise any alarms, we don't want everyone to worry that if they've got a loose stool that all of a sudden that means that they've got COVID, it's more that we want to raise awareness, you know, both on the side of continuing to stay at home, to encourage good hand hygiene, social distancing, because that's another way for the virus to spread and you know, take it seriously right? Wipe down all the surfaces, make sure you're washing your hands. And if you do end up having some symptoms, touch base, right virtual medicine is completely changing the way that you can see your doctors, you don't have to...
I was just going to say that the both you and I are really doing a lot of telemedicine. And I love your idea that if I get somebody and I'm going to ask those questions, how's your smell? How's this? Then the next thing I'm going to do? I'm going to check some liver tests. To make sure and we can start gathering some of this data to you know, ourselves. So if you're, I think right now initial visit has to be in state. So if you live in the state of Texas, both Dr. Akerman and I can see you virtually and talk about these different things. I don't know if that's going to change anytime soon or there can be interstate. Am I wrong on that? Is that correct?
Yeah, I know. CMS is discussing it in regard specifically to Medicare coverage, to try to get more physicians available for their Medicare patients, but I don't, I don't believe it's been passed yet but currently you have to be an in state resident they have lifted the restrictions about establishing the doctor patient relationship so it can be done via telemedicine. And you know, the nice thing about it is because it adds so much flexibility, there really is a lot more room for us to enact some of these protocols, right to say, okay, well I saw a patient on Monday, and they've had these symptoms and I don't want to raise alarms, I want to see how you're doing. Let's have you go to the lab, which is considered an essential business and it's still staying open. You go in, you get your blood drawn, you know, we get it back in a day or two, have the patient follow up again for another 15 minute visit. A quick visit on Wednesday is just check in and say okay, let's review your lab test. How are you feeling? Have you developed any new symptoms and then kind of go from there.
Alright, let's do it. I do the same protocol for the anosmia as we see our patients. So if somebody says, you know, I've kind of had some loose stools and stuff like that, let's have the same protocol where we say I would like...do you have any oranges in your house? This is my theory, cut it right now in front of me smell it, does it smell exactly like an orange should smell? Or I was just saying orange, it could be anything that has a distinct odor.
Right. That that that is universal. So everyone knows what it should smell like,
Yeah, just think about that. Maybe you and I can come up with a little protocol where that'll be part of the physical exam or part of the history.
Yeah, that was a great idea. Just another way to, you know, triage the patients and get everyone the excellent care that they need.
Yeah, absolutely. So we're done with that study. Since I've been reading so much. I just want to bring up a few other different studies that kind of tie into this. There was a study out of China that showed a case report of a 25 year old woman, and this is early on, that her brother was in Wuhan came back. She that was her contact. She was hyper aware of everything, and then ended up developing fever myalgias everything went into the hospital had a very severe case. With a CT showing the bilateral infiltrates doing all of that, and so she had a pretty rough, absolutely classic COVID 19 with the CT exposure and her her progression,
And am I remembering correctly that she had more mild imaging on presentation, but it's sort of blossomed very quickly into significant Pulmonary Disease?
It did. And what's fascinating is over when they swab or it was a negative, and then somebody was smart enough to do an immediate PCR in her stool it was positive, and then they swabbed her three more times over a seven day period. All her throat swabs remained negative. The stool was how they were able to confirm the COVID 19 even though her presentation was classic for it. So that's something that's fascinating to me. It is one case it's a case report.
Right and you know, you have to take it I don't say with skepticism because it's you know, it's real information, but you sort of have to take it for what it's worth, right? I mean, the value of data is typically an aggregate and it is a case study. But it proves our point from what we were discussing with these two articles that, you know, fecal oral is another route that we have to really be considering. And, you know, we do this for other things too. In our daily practices, we talk about h pylori treatments and evaluation. And there are multiple methods for how you can diagnose and find it. And sometimes it makes sense to do it with a breath test, sometimes with a biopsy, sometimes with a stool specimen. And you know, each test has their limitations, one might not one might come back negative where the patient actually has the disease. And if you have a high index of suspicion, you repeat it with a different asa, and you find this positive you can isolate it and treat it.
Yeah. 100%. And then another one, which is probably going to be beneficial, but also scary. And I don't remember this I don't remember the number of people but somebody was looking at once they decided start looking at story. Somebody published a fecal viral shedding five weeks continued after pulmonary viral shedding stopped. So they got better. They didn't have any other viruses in their lungs, and they continue to shed the virus for five weeks. fecal now, just like you said, take that with a grain of salt. Very small number one person's take on it. But something to keep in mind also.
Yeah, definitely. And I think the biggest thing to take away from that is that when someone hopefully, you know, successfully overcomes the illness, they're not totally out of the woods, right? They still have to make sure that they're practicing social distancing, that they're still adhering to all these recommendations that we discussed earlier, because they might still be a vector for spread to other people.
Yeah. And that's, that's why I feel like we need to continue to try and educate as much as possible. This is not going to just go away. It's not like you know, it's that one thing like when do we lift these social restrictions? When do we allow these businesses to open up? And are we going to see a resurgence selling when that happens? Because all these people that said, Well, I socially isolated I had a mild cold. I don't know if it was that or not, but I'm sure I'm fine. And then ultimately, we need to continue with exactly what you're talking about. I mean, look, everybody should be washing their hands after they go to the restroom. And this is one of the reasons is that you don't need to see stool on anywhere on you to have the pathogen on you meaning the virus could be on you, which is you don't see the droplets coming at you. But yet there's virus coming at you. So
I would even go one step further with recommendations, you know, sort of borrowing from what we suggest to patients who develop a stool infection that we deal with a lot of pretty significant one in the United States called Clostridium difficile or C. diff. If you have a patient who tests positive or even suspect that they test positive, you tell them to go into contact Isolation in their own home, you know, what does that mean? It means that they have to use their own bathroom if possible. So if there are multiple bathrooms in the house, they should really be just using one everyone else in the family should be using a separate bathroom and just be super vigilant with wiping things down even if possible. And now it's a little bit difficult with a lack of resources but using Lysol wipes bleach wipes. In those situations, hand sanitizer doesn't help. Thankfully here it seems that COVID is responsive to hand sanitizer, so there is that sort of feather in the cap that we can use that also to mitigate spread. But it might be a good idea, you know, patients who have some of these gi symptoms and aren't necessarily displaying the typical or classic COVID symptoms, maybe need to isolate even a little bit further than just their normal social isolation in order to try to prevent spread.
That's true. And one I'm just gonna, this is just planting the seed because I need to read more about this. I've got a bunch of articles I need to get through, but there's new evidence coming out that this Prevotella bacteria may be associated with SARS, CoV2 infection, and Prevotella can cause both severe pneumonia and GI tract issues. Which is fascinating to me because one virologist published this really cool article that I, I wouldn't even do it justice trying to explain it, but basically that the virus can infect the Prevotella. And then it can use the Prevotella to replicate the virus and the Prevotella converts it to DNA and blah, blah, blah, maybe one of the reasons why we're getting negative tests. It was that was his theory. So it's a totally moving target.
Right. Yeah, I mean, more data gets published every day just enhances our ability to fight us.
So I hope everyone enjoyed this. I hope that wasn't too nerdy. But this is a slightly different gut check project where it's just Dr. Akerman and I talking about his particular specialty and my specialty. I think that as we go forward if there are other journal articles like this being published, or actually we both have access to pre publication. I think that we should do this on a semi regular basis where we can get in front of this, interpret the data, and then hopefully do some things like we thought about on the fly. We were thinking about how we're going to get over these telemedicine visits, that we can maybe have a, a smell congregate of data where people where I can ask them that maybe we this is the beginning of setting up a possible stent with some sort of anti viral thing. So it's it's discussions like this that sort of peak, the peak the boundaries of out of necessity breeds invention.
Yeah, I think the more the more of the discussions happen. The more the gastroenterologist, the pulmonologist, the ear, nose and throat doctors, the primary care doctors, the emergency physicians, you know, the allied health professionals, you know, everyone has this continued discussion. It breeds more ideas and more ways that we can be looking at the problem to try to problem solve.
Yeah. So I think that what this particular episode should be called is, you know, COVID 2.5, or COVID 3, share with your doctor. So if you look at this, I think this is very relevant for healthcare professionals to hear and a lot of us are just in over our heads right now with trying to keep up with the expenses of a practice because you can't do your procedures. But if you're doing this, what you can do as a service is like and share this with anybody you would like to but it'd be really interesting if you started sharing these with your doctors now that you're doing telemed and things like that. This way we can get some of this out there and get I'll get the healthcare community out in front of it as well.
Yeah I agree and you know, I appreciate you having me on the podcast and and you know, hopefully as more information comes out, we'll be able to discuss it further and disseminate that information to the masses.
Absolutely. All right, everybody stay safe. We're going to try and give any information we can practice all the things that Dr. Akerman just said. And if you'd like we both accept telemedicine appointments. More importantly, let's all just get through this together as a country as a world as a world.
As a world. Stay safe.
Take care everybody.
Okay, welcome KBMD health fans and gut check project fans, it's time for COVID installment number two. These are the code files where essentially, myself and Dr. Brown, a co host we're going to address the latest in research for coronavirus as it applies to healthcare and our community. Dr. Brown, how are you doing?
You know I'm doing is I'm doing well considering the state of how a lot of people are probably struggling through this process. Once again, the COVID files I think you and I really enjoy joking around and stuff, but this is not something that I want to joke around with today. So the show right now we're becoming much more sciency than we've ever been. And it is because I want to make sure that anything we discuss has a reference to it. So let's begin by saying that this is a show and not intended to treat diagnose anyone. I'm a medical doctor. With the current state of anxiety I'm trying to sift through hundreds of articles being published daily because this is a global problem. And I am fortunate enough to have our secret weapon which this week I was on Dr. Chang Raun's in Darrel Hill summit with Dr. Hyman and some other incredible people, Dr. Pompa, Dr. O'Brien and all these people and I, I told them all that Angie Cook is our secret weapon. And then on the CBOE SOS summit yesterday with Chevonne Sarna, I let it drop again. So Angie, thank you so much for working hard and diligently with me to try and get through all of this literature. Cats out of the bag. She is a certified nutritionist and Rn one of the smartest people I've ever met, and she sent me this email right before we went on. Today the numbers are staggering and the stories of what our healthcare workers are facing is heartbreaking. Please be careful. So what we're going to talk about today is mind blowing, to be honest. And I'm just going to be honest. In the sense this is no, this is not opinion. This is not based off of anxiety, or based...this is strictly the science. And this is not the time that I want to, I want to be perceived as I mean, because one of the concerns Eric, you and I've talked about this, I want to shout everything that I've learned from the rooftops, but I don't want to come off as somebody that's saying that I want to try and make money off of this particular crisis. That's not at all what I'm trying to do here. What I'm trying to do is show you the science. So that being said, I've got so much new information. Last time on our COVID one files, we're going to say how we're going to talk about what you can do with lifestyle and supplements. We're still gonna do that. Absolutely. And I actually learned a lot from being on Chang Raun's summit. You can look that up. It's Raun, Chang Raun. Some of his experts are functional medicine experts that understand the supplements better than I do. And I took notes while I was there. And I was a panelist on that. And the stuff that I talked about was really well received by his panelists as well. So everything is a moving target right now. So this is going to be I'm calling it a mic dropping show. Because if I don't get too geeky, and that's your job, Eric makes sure that I don't go into the weeds and be a nerd because I am a nerd to the nth degree. Angie and I have been nerding out crazy, like hair, you know, like reading articles and your hair just stands up because you're like, oh my gosh, there's no way this is here. Nobody else is talking about this. So if I come across here, and you're like, I've never heard of this. I feel like this it's because you're not spending 12 hours a day with the...a beast like Angie and I. She's uploaded over 20,000 articles to our Mendeley account. So I remember Dave Asprey when I listened to one of his podcasts. He's like, let me log into my Mandalay. I'm like, I wonder if his Mendeley is as big as my Mendeley, which is a repository of journal articles. So I'm super excited to get into this show. So that's my initial thoughts. That was my ramble. And I will, I will have everything else will be scientific data from here on out.
Well, let's go ahead and start there. So we last on episode one. Basically, we broke down the various aspects of what is coronavirus? How is it directly affecting and we even talked about the stresses on resources. But now on today's show, not only do we want to leave everyone kind of with an idea on what they can do to supplement their own diet and the day to day things that they could be doing to basically improve their immune system as well as basically weather the storm better. Well, let's get a little bit more into the science of what's been some of the more recent data that I know that you and Angie shared because we've we've had a lot of conversations between last show, you going and doing now virtual clinic, me going and having meetings on transitioning the ASC over to possibly new ICU rooms, which is something we've never had to do before. So I'll let you kind of take it away there.
Yeah. So you know, this is this is daily. It's hourly changing, let's be honest, and this is a global problem. So there's so many studies coming in what I think that makes us a little bit unique on the gut check project, is what we're doing is we're looking at the the data being published right now. 2020, late March, everything's been published, but then because of trying to link it to the 2003 we are able to look at articles back then also, because the SARS COV-2 virus structurally is extremely similar to the SARS first virus the COV. So a lot of these articles are a transitioning like that, where you can say that this is this and then because of that the links allowed us to find other things. So, a lot of what I'm going to talk about is preprints, meaning that I have access to articles that aren't even in publication yet. But the scientists are so passionate about it, that they're just sending it out. A lot of it comes from China because they have the most experience. I believe that when we did our first COV files last week, I don't know what was their 160,000 cases, something like that. I don't remember.
Yeah, they confirmed and that's that's a pretty important thing. So we talked about that last week to confirm just because we're increasing confirm number doesn't necessarily mean Doomsday. It's just that we're able to actually confirm that a number of people actually have it. However, it does become a data point that we need to reconcile with.
And we will yeah, we can we can get into that. But I just want to tell you I just looked about an hour ago and right now, the confirmed cases are 577,495.
Mm hmm.
That has jumped a bunch. There has been 26,447 deaths. I'm getting a lot of emails from healthcare workers who, when these patients are funneled to one institution, like my hospital, that institution, those health care workers are putting themselves on the front line. They are, they are the heroes. They are defending all of us by taking care of this and I just want to say thank you to every healthcare worker that is working shiftwork, that is in hospital, because you are the frontline of this and many times you don't even know if the person you're treating has this extremely virulent virus virulent being very contagious. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah, without question. Thank you.
Now, I this is not a doomsday podcast at all. In fact, to the contrary, what this is going to be is a complete bright light on this whole viral pandemic. I feel like we have spent this whole time figuring or looking at data and piecing together things that will bring hope to everyone. And that's what this podcast is going to be: how do you actually protect yourself? This is based off science. This is based off a bench research. I understand that some doctors would say, well, we need a randomized placebo control trial. We are not in an era right now where we need to do that. I understand that that is ultimately what we want to do. But in this I just want to protect people with things that we know have been around a long time. It doesn't have a whole lot of downside. So I have a moral obligation to do this and to share it with everyone here.
Definitely, without question.
All right, so let's let's talk about transmission, some of the newest information that's been learned. So everybody if anybody's new to the show, if anybody's wondering like, Why in the world is gastroenterologist talking about COVID19? Well, everyone's talking about cobit 19. So, doesn't matter if you're human, you're talking about it, but it's actually specifically relevant to me. And some of the newest information is this is that we now realize that the virus can be passed both through droplets in your respiratory system, and it can infect your gastrointestinal system. As it turns out the h2 receptor that we believe the virus attaches to that most have agreed to that the highest concentration is in the stomach and the duodenum which is the first part of your small intestine. So if you are eating food, that somebody has cooked for you or that, or maybe you've well, somebody else has to have cooked it for you, and you eat it, the virus can then get into your body through your gut, we now realize that somewhere between 30 to 48% of the COVID19 cases are actually starting in the gut. And 85% of those present with anorexia, or they're just not hungry. What's fascinating is that when you and I were talking, and we were going over those numbers last week, I was like, why is that and then the very next day, articles have come out and it's made the news now, but we were talking about it last week, about how one of the early signs of this could be Anosmia, which is lack of smell, right? Ageusia which is lack of taste. So my theory is that those people that have that that precedes the symptoms by a long time, or not a long time, we don't really know but it certainly is one of the preceding symptoms. So when I'm walking into my hospital and they have to scan me and see if I have a fever, first question that I'm asking is, how's your sense of smell? Because that is now a screening tool. So keep that in mind. The letter there was a article published from my college, not my college, I went to but the American College of gastroenterology, which is the society that I belong to. There was a report from China reporting that cases with someone who had contact with her brother from Wu Han, so a woman shows up with a fever to a hospital. Her brother had come from Wu Han to stay with her. She gets a fever she shows up says my brother was in Wu Han. I've got this they do a CT on her. And she has the ground glass appearance of the classic COVID19
Right.
tested negative four times on the sputum. One of the doctors was savvy enough to go test her stool. They did an immediate polymerase chain reaction a PCR. Her stool is positive, her sputum was negative.
So the sputum technically you're saying that they the margin, there was a she basically was a false negative, correct?
She was a false negative on the swab that they did. They did a total once they got her diagnosed, they knew that they were dealing with COVID19. So then she became sort of a case study where they did like five more swabs on her all negative. So what we're what we're talking about here is that the gut so as a gastroenterologist, I'm telling everyone right now your gut is your first line of defense. And we need to protect that you can do all you can for barrier to avoid droplets to get it in your eyes, your nose and everything. But you still gotta eat and all these people that are ordering takeout and everything. somebody's preparing your food That's a route of admission. And then this is not to create anxiety. This is just so that everybody understands this. And then I found another study, shockingly, that showed that there was viral shedding in the stool. Five weeks after viral shedding in the lung went down. So they recovered from COVID19. And then a group of physicians tracked these patients and they kept checking their stool. Five weeks after being normal, they still had virus in their stool. And on the last show, we did talk about the fact that the virus can live three to four days on steel and plastic, it can live in the air for hours. So if you've got maybe what we're talking about here is fecal oral. And I hate to say that because everybody cringes when I say that, but that's how all gastrointestinal bugs get passed.
Well, I think we should address it you know, you're talking about science to layman's terms. So If we're addressing things like, keep your six foot distance, etc, that has a lot to do with the droplet transmission. Everyone's been told and we've learned as children growing older that we should wash your hands after going to the bathroom. But specifically, if you're going to the bathroom and and you've, you've had a bowel movement and you certainly if you've known that you've had exposure to Coronavirus or COVID19 be certain to be diligent about washing your hands after you finish the bathroom, even more so than in the past. So if you've always been washing your hands great, it's now's the time to make certain that you're diligent in the process of washing your hands, keep your hands clean, because the fecal to oral transmission is a real, is a real problem.
I got called by a doctor today who wanted my opinion. Very intelligent doctor and he was like, hey, man, what's going on with this? It's it's all hype, whatever and I I started telling him about this kind of stuff. I said, no, it's this is this is real. We all need to...education is the key to controlling your anxiety. Remember that we're not here to cause anxiety. What I'm trying to say is, the more you know about this, the more you can control it. And what what we're going to do is talk about how to protect your gastrointestinal tract. Yesterday in shavon saunas CBOE SOS summit, I discussed how unfortunately, my theory is that if you've got CBOE bacterial overgrowth, or any other gastrointestinal problem in your upper small bowel, you probably have a compromised tight junction that will allow easier penetration. So my job is to let's fortify your gut. Let's make sure that your gut is strong. So when somebody comes knocking, you don't open the door. That's all you have to think of it.
Just a quick reset it when he says tight junction is being breached. He's basically talking about the barrier in your GI tract basically, it can become permeable allowing you to become more inflamed or, or ill. So basically he's saying if you have this issue, what we're trying to do is protect it so you don't have that problem.
So you're gonna do this a lot for the rest of the show. Basically, I want to say things that because I have been so into the weeds reading just super sciency stuff
like what he says when he says into the weeds, he means like he's going to drill it, no I'm just kidding.
I just it's just rabbit hole after rabbit hole because you hear a term and you're like, oh my gosh, what is that gonna go down over here and this and that. Alright, so I'm just going to talk about one of the coolest things coming out of Germany is there are some scientists that have a new rapid test to diagnose SARS COV-2 remember SARS. COV-2 is the virus that causes COVID 19. SARS COV-2 is the coronavirus the coronavirus is a family of viruses, this is the ridiculously tough, virulent, you know, bad one that's creating this pandemic. So some brilliant scientists realized that certain flavonoids, or polyphenols have a very high affinity to attach to the SARS COV-2 spike proteins. So you always see that picture of the, of the of the virus they always had it shown with a bunch of those little spikes all over the place. That's how come, Eric, you told me this earlier that's why they call it the corona because it looks like a
Looks like a sunburst. That's what it is. That's how I learned it long ago, but it was called Corona because microscopically It looks like a big, big sunburst.
Yeah. So normally, the way that these tests are done to try and determine this, what they're talking about is a diffusion test or what's called an agglutination test, but what these researchers showed is that two polyphenols luteolin and quercetin have a very high affinity and an inhibitory effect on the SARS COV 2 virus, I'll say it again, basically natural products, natural molecules in nature have the ability to attach to the virus. And what these guys proposed is that normally, when you have a test like this, you have to have an antigen, which is a protein that the antibody has to buy into or in this case, what you would do is use a very expensive antibody against COV-2. So they're trying to do tests like this, but they're taking blood from people or animals, getting the antibody and then if you put your sample if the antibody attaches, then you know that you've got SARS COV-2. These cats figured out that natural polyphenols attached to it. So what they do is they put the sample in, they put some polyphenols, there luteolin and quercetin and then if it clumps, then they go, that's positive. If it doesn't, then it's just chilling. That's, that's mind blowing.
Yeah. So essentially, what you're saying is, is these polyphenols made the SARS COV-2 virus nonreactive. The antibodies had no, they didn't discern it whatsoever. So it was a negative test.
No. So what it is, is they didn't necessarily make them reactive or non reactive. All they did is they could show that they surrounded it and smothered it. So when they found this in clumps, they knew that they had SARS COV-2. So this is just a preliminary test to say do you have it or do you don't, you can extrapolate that it can be both diagnostic and therapeutic. Meaning you can look at this and say not only can you diagnose it, but there's a very good chance that this same type of polyphenol may treat the virus. And that's what these researchers basically said in their conclusion. And what's awesome is they said this could probably be done with a lot of other viruses because of the antiviral activity. So
it's very, very interesting diagnostic, I'm almost certain whether it's therapeutic or not remains to be seen. It certainly is a natural compound to, at a minimum run interference for the SARS COV-2 virus.
Yes, so you're probably wondering, Well, why in the world did you bring up some obscure tests that isn't even out yet? Because what's awesome is, these are all like preprints. These are scientists sharing stuff around the world. And I can almost follow when one guy references another guy, and then they do a study. The studies that I'm going to talk about in the beginning are all bench research that is called in vitro. When we describe something in vivo it's one we give it to a human. Right now, the virus is so new the novel Coronavirus is so new, that everything has to be done in a lab first to see what could be potentially effective in a human. So keep that in mind because that's that's an argument that a lot of people will say is oh, well, there's no randomized placebo controlled trials on humans blah, blah, blah, we're not we're not we need to stop something first. Need to control this and then we can flatten the curve. Get that R0 watch this, watch the first episode because we get way into the R0 thing get that R0 down, and then we can go there. So, dude, what I'm going to talk about is absolutely nothing short of extraordinary, extraordinary. And these are drugs that President Trump is telling all these private companies. I think there's like last week there was 35 different companies trying to produce products against this. There's a lot of them are called protease inhibitors. A protease inhibitor is an antiviral drug that we, that got discovered during the HIV era, where what they do is they block the virus's ability to grow up. So in other words, a virus tries to release his buddy. And then the protease inhibitor says, nope you're gone, and then they kind of kill the new viruses being produced. This is, and this, this prevents the viral cells from growing and maturing. And according to the scientists that are looking at clinical trials, they're trying different protease inhibitors to block SARS COV-2. So there's clinical trials going on with protease inhibitors that we know So, the first article that I want to talk, this is the title of the article, and I will let you, layman for me.
Okay.
All right. This is the actual title of the article. It is a pre print article. So it should be what we're talking about here. When I say pre print is I'm giving you information before way before it's going to make the news way before. So this is why this is a hopeful podcast, very hopeful podcast. Potential inhibitor of COVID19 main protease empro, from several medicinal plant compounds by molecular docking study.
Okay. Well, let's see, it sounds to me like what we're trying to do is use a naturally occurring substance, to eventually stop a virus.
Through the protease inhibitor method,
Well you said layman's terms last time my neighbor said protease was never.
You're right. Yeah, yeah. You and I have different neighbors. My neighbors and I talk protease all the time. I'm surrounded. All my neighbors are infectious disease doctors. So
I know it. That's, that's what my takeaway is from that is, we are going to find how nature can allow mammals, humans to consume a natural compound and stop a virus from spreading.
Yeah, so correct. So what they did is a researcher in China was able to successfully figure out or crystallized the COVID19 protease, that's the key step. And these guys took that person's science and said, okay, what is a potential target, to stop that protease? And they develop this very complex, cool study where they could show the binding energies. So when they say docking, the cell has to dock onto another cell. And then if it infiltrates, then if you give a protease inhibitor, it can't move. So they want to know how tight it binds to that protease enzyme. And what they figured out was they looked at three HIV protease inhibitors and 11 polyphenols.
So and then just to reset into layman's terms, if you're trying to keep track of the the words, the way that I kind of have charted this together is a virus uses a protease like a key. The protease is the key for the virus to infiltrate and then deposit this mRNA so it can replicate what Dr. Brown is talking about doing is how can I stop their key from working? How can I make it so that this virus can can't use the key the protease to where the virus is using that protease to break down the protein so it can inject its RNA?
Yeah. So the viruses, like we talked about before, are amazing parasites, they have to get into a cell, they have to replicate, they take over the cell, and then the virus starts going around. So these guys knew that there's three they looked at three HIV proteases. And then they realized that there's naturally occurring molecules in nature called polyphenols. And they demonstrated that the drugs and these 11 polyphenols appeared to have potent attachments to the M Pro with the M Pro is the protease on COVID19. Therefore preventing the virus from replicating their fin...their final conclusion was like all good bench researchers. Further research needed to do human trials.
Sure.
So they have a model with the virus and these polyphenols bond tightly. Super cool.
Yeah, no without question. So essentially, they're saying if we can find a way to stop impro from unlocking the cell, then SARS COV2, or the coronavirus cannot infiltrate these cells.
Yeah, so that was really cool. And then mic drop. Another study comes out of this one's out of Turkey and Pakistan. And I'm going to reach out to these researchers. They were kind enough to list their cell phones and emails on this study. I'm not sure that they meant to do that.
Doesn't happen all the time!
I'm gonna I'm gonna hit them up and I just gotta find somebody that can translate for me if necessary. We're going to do this. Their article title is identification of potent COVID19 main protease. Now you know what a main protease is empro. These guys took the research from the person that discovered it and did the exact same thing as these other guys did. So identification of potent COVID19 main protease inhibitors from natural polyphenols. And in silico, strategy unveils a hope against Corona. What? These guys saw that study and went, wait a minute polyphenols seem to be the way to go. This could be a new hope for Corona. This is what these guys are talking about. It's out of two very prestigious academic centers in Turkey and Pakistan. These guys are absolute beasts, I should say, guys, I'm just assuming there's probably women on the team also, that's rude of me to say these guys, but these scientists are beasts. So since its main protease was figured out, and remember I'll say it one more time, the protease allows the virus to grow and replicate. That is why we figured it out for AIDS. So they did a study where they looked at 26 polyphenols and one prescription protease inhibitor called nelfinavir.
Okay
So these guys had the guts to say let's see what happens when we compare polyphenols to the current antiviral therapy that we use for AIDS. These results are absolutely shocking, Eric, this is I cannot make this stuff up. This is where my skin my hair just starts bristling. Basically 24 of the 26 polyphenols bound tighter to the COVID protease, then the prescription drug did. I'll say that one more time. It bound tighter than the drugs that we're thinking of using.
Nice.
And I'm really having a hard time trying to not be enthusiastic here and try to be scientific. I said it's gonna be very somber, scientific thing, but I'm just now um these are lab people. And these these guys, I could tell by the writing that their that excited I mean, when, when the title says, you know, exciting new treatment for Corona like these are bench researchers that if the numbers make sense. So this is not something to say that 100% this will work in humans, what we have is bench research stage one, stage two is to work to a human pilot trial, stage three is to do a randomized placebo control trial and so on. But this is so exciting to see that this is proven in a lab that these 24 out of 26 polyphenols and what this tells me is certain polyphenols did slightly better than others, as best they could tell. But the molecular mechanism is very similar it all is and then what they determined was it was a dose dependent, so you had to have enough of it to do it. So pretty wild.
I don't want to jump too far ahead. But questions that are popping up in my mind are going to be number one is binding for the most part, preventing the virus from carrying out its activity. Because, you know, you don't want to just bind and be happy that you are bound, and the virus can go on. And the other question would be, what, what are the categories of polyphenols that happened to perform better than others? And do they all still you said 24 out of 26. So we know that two probably aren't ideal, but what were the categories?
No, no. 24 out of 26 outperformed the prescription drug. The other two just were about at the level of the prescription drug.
Thank you for the correction. So 26 bound.
And I just want to clarify one thing I'm you and I are not virologists. The concept of protease I think, is more of a replication thing than a that's how come it works so well to stop the virus. I think it's more of a prevents the virus from replicating as far as binding. There's some different science with that. So just and I'm not a virologist, I'm a butt doctor. So um, so then of course that starts, you start going down some crazy pathways. I found another article that identified myricetin and scutellarein or something like that, which are polyphenols. Somebody else did a study as a novel chemical inhibitor of the SARS coronavirus. by blocking the helicase. The helicase was described as something needed to replicate.
Yeah.
So what I meant by I've just been exhausted is I read these articles and then of course, you stop. And it's like, I gotta go look that up. And then you end up going down a helicase pathway and I was just like, oh my gosh. The science doesn't matter. What I'm saying is there's people that are now looking in 2020, because they're doing the same thing I'm doing, they've seen the data from 2003. And now they're trying to see if that works on SARS COV2. And it appears it does.
Well, is it a helicase? Isn't that an enzyme? Yeah, we hear about the double helix or whenever you see DNA after it's been scripted, and you see the winding, you know, mirrored image. Helicases, the enzyme that allows the assemblage of the mirrored DNA if I if I remember correctly, I could be wrong on that.
So that is, that is med school year two USMLE. was done with that. As long as it passed. Um, here's another super
I think I get pulled a gene like they pulled the gene out or something like that. Sorry, I don't wanna get sidetracked. I'm just kind of like...
I don't know. I mean, dude, it's like clearly We're gonna have to get a virologist on to explain all the terms just say you guys are idiots. You're using the terms incorrectly. Let me explain it to you cool. I I welcome any virologist to to help us get through this because this isn't our thing. I'm trying to figure out how to take care of my patients. That's all I'm doing right now. Speaking of that. Another study titled small molecules targeting severe acute respiratory syndrome, human coronavirus. These guys looked at over 10,000 compounds, including over 500 protease inhibitors, 200 drugs, 8000 synthetic compounds and 1000 traditional Chinese herbs. Of all of them 50 were found to be anti SARS COV not COV2 anti SARS cubs. So this was a study done after the original SARS outbreak.
Okay.
Two made the best cut, one being a molecule called Aescin-AESCIN, the extract of horse chestnut.
Horse chestnut. Yeah. Wow.
And the other is a drug called reserpine which is a high blood pressure drug used in Europe. Huh 10,000 different compounds and Aescin the extract of horse chestnut is there. Okay, that's cool.
Yeah, it's a polyphenol,
that is a polyphenol/saponin. And we know a lot about that you can go on atrantil.com and learn about Aescin and if you want. Pretty wild. So that's my this is where this is going to go. We're going to be able to figure out how to optimize the appropriate polyphenols to protect your gut to protect your health. Those are astounding studies. It's I mean, I'm just fascinated. Alright, so everyone knows this. We developed atrantil. Atrantil are three polyphenols I have been into the science of polyphenols for over 10 years now. So now that I'm looking at this, this is not a sales pitch. This is a oh, my goodness, the molecule that I've been studying for 10 years, which is super complex and all this, I'm finding scientists around the world studying it and having positive results. That's what this is about. Nothing more.
Now, here's here's the interesting part, though. So if it happened to only be a prescriptive drug or something that were synthetic, it would almost be completely imperative that that multiple rounds of trials and testing be carried out. Simply for the safety profiles so that they can be safely used somewhere. The exciting part to me is that what we're talking about is something that is already naturally occurring and is safe for us to begin to utilize as kind of like internal PPE. That's how I think about it as a frontline worker...
Say what...say what PPE is
Oh sorry, personal protective equipment. So that was...
Yeah, so one of the issues that if you're not in healthcare, the term PPE is being used because we're all running out of gowns, masks, gloves.
Everyone is and it hasn't even hit our area nearly as intensely as it has like the northeast or the west coast, we're we're running out
And you you as essentially, somebody who controls airways and you have to intubate people, you aren't so in the line of fire, so to speak, you're on you're that frontline person. You're one of those if you're an ICU nurse, if you're an anesthesiologist if you're a respiratory tech salute all of you, because you guys are right there getting into it. Now, some would say, hey, you spent the first half of the show talking about gastrointestinal issues. Yeah, I salute my gastrointestinal colleagues as well. Because it looks like we're in the fight now also.
Definitely. It's just it's the takeaway, though, from those those studies, those reviews that you just had, though, Ken, don't you think that the exciting part on top of we think that we may be onto something is that people can begin to take action now with at least the data that is applicable, it's safe to use it worst and at the bare bones worst if someone happened to just simply start eating more polyphenols that they would take in from fruit yet, if it didn't work? Well. They're still getting great fruit and fiber etc. There's there's really no downside to applying a little bit of this, this reviewed science as we as we wait to find out that these are actual adversaries to the coronavirus.
Correct. So polyphenols if somebody's like man they've been talking about polyphenols this whole time, what does that polyphenols are the molecules that make vegetables and fruit, colorful, it's on the skin. Those are the molecules found heavily in the Mediterranean diet. And those are the molecules that we now believe are anti aging anti inflammatory molecules. That's how come that we've been studying this so much. So I've been using it for gut health. So if at the very least, when you eat, make sure your plate is colorful, everything should be colorful. If you can imagine when you go to McDonald's and get your whatever it is. thing you lay it out. It's got a monochromatic tan across the...
Very yellow...very yellow plate.
Very yellow plate. You want to have green reds and purples and When you're doing that you're getting your polyphenols in knowing that the polyphenols could potentially help this. So that's super make sure that you at the very least do this. We know that they are very potent antioxidant, anti inflammatory antibacterial and antiviral. Yes. data to show all of that.
Yeah, definitely. No, that's that's it's just a great takeaway to know that you can actually possibly be taking some serious action for your benefit and your family's benefit today.
Yeah, totally. Um, so let's kind of get away from polyphenols and talk about what else you can do. But you're gonna hear a recurring theme here. It's, it's or fortunately, Mother Nature knows how to do this. And you got to take advantage of that. So let's talk about something so I've been getting tons of emails and patients calling in everything, what do I do for this and that, so let's talk about zinc. Why is everybody saying zinc? Why did they get buy get bought off the shelves? Why is it there? Well, zinc, if you're low, then your immune cells won't function well. And intracellular zinc can block the enzyme that allows the virus to replicate, which is an RNA polymerase enzyme. One more time, you take zinc in, very small percentage of it gets put into the cell, where the zinc then just goes, come on now, and they just starts working on the virus's rep replicating system. That's how it works as an immune product. And so zinc is an essential mineral that we need to take in, but you got to get it into the cell. So some scientists realize that we have to figure out how to get more zinc, intracellular. I got to quit touching my face, I just realized I'm messing up my hair and I...
I've been doing it the whole time.
Yeah, I'm realizing just I mean, I just get I get, I get excited about this. We know that zinc can inhibit, specifically Coronavirus, RNA polymerase activity in labs, but it has to be intracellular. The problem is that once it's in the cell, it can do that. But it has to get in there. And that's difficult to do. Scientists have realized and I keep saying scientists have realized I'm just referring to other smarter people that have done these studies is what I mean. So other people that are smarter than me have figured this out that it needs something called an ionophore to get in. So it's like a fast pass or it's a it's there's a security guard at the cell door, and zinc like a my humans eating all kinds of zinc. I'm here to help out and the security guards like you need to come in with somebody you need to have a VIP with you. Well, they're looking at different things that work as VIPs and as it turns out, flavonoids which are In the class of polyphenols, not only act as antioxidants, but appears in this particular study that they drove zinc into the cells, then they showed that with mice, they could actually show a rapid increase in intracellular zinc, when the zinc was taken with polyphenols, or if you're taking polyphenols. And also taking zinc doesn't have to be the same time. And they did this through very complex fluorescent staining. So that is super wild. You need zinc, but you need intracellular zinc. So really pretty, that one kind of blew me away also. So I just got done talking about two bench studies, where they work as protease inhibitors. And now I just showed you how polyphenols can work as zinc ionophores. That should be like enough, and we actually have more stuff to talk about, which is nuts. So
So just in just a quick aside if if you have a diet that's comprised of good Healthy meats. What else? Beans probably seeds, nuts, various nuts. That's where you'll find naturally occurring zinc or...
Cashews. Cashews are a big one.
Definitely there's there but there are definitely some zinc supplements out there. So as a as Brown lays out different things that you probably could take at a molecular level, I'm going to try to keep up and say, places where you can find them so that you can incorporate them into your daily intake of foods.
Yeah, so unfortunately, I'm just geeking out on this. So if you if you figure out how to say, Well, if somebody's sitting there going, Wow, where do I get it? Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you for doing that. Um, something else. There was a study that came out of Korea, which showed that by certain probiotics in vitro, they could actually stop the hearing metabolism which this particular virus uses to get energy and one step further. That was in vitro then I found an article that showed that polyphenols work as an antioxidant by blocking xanthine oxidase which is part of the pureeing pathway. So the energy gets taken away from the virus as well. So that's super geeky. It's like, wow, it's like almost like every time somebody chooses to do a study on these polyphenols, they're finding a positive effect. We have gotten sicker since we have become industrialized, and we have refined foods. Having soil with rich and minerals and everything and eating the seasonal vegetables is probably a very effective way to protect yourself from a lot of illness. Not trying to say specifically COVID19 but doing that is probably a great way to protect yourself from a lot of things.
Definitely hundred percent. I don't have a whole lot to add to that.
Alright, so I'm tired of polyphenols, if I could ever say that I've only been talking about 'em for 10 years. So, alright. We did say on the first one that I want to give some recommendations about things that I'm telling my patients that I'm doing that my kids are doing that everyone that I think there's some science backing this. So other recommendations I'm telling I'm a big fan of fermented foods. I don't understand why but Germany continues to have this profound or I haven't, or a very a much lower death rate than the rest of the world. And I always laugh because I'm like, Is it the sauerkraut? I just keep coming back to them because the sauerkraut is it the beer. What is it, but so fermented foods, especially those that have Lactobacillus plantarum and bifidobacterium and lactobacillus generally will actually have been shown to have some antiviral activities. So now's the time to go out and get that kimchi now's the time to go out and eat that sauerkraut and that kind of thing. As you know, I'm not a huge fan of probiotics based on the science because not that it's there they're bad. But the science just isn't there and I don't want people spending a whole lot of money on things that don't work. I'm a big fan of polyphenol wrapped probiotics, kimchi, sauerkraut, things like that, because the insoluble cellulose, in my opinion probably works as a vehicle to get that bacteria to the colon. So, fermented foods. I'm kind of a fan of right now. We discussed zinc and vitamin C is an essential micronutrient that works as an antioxidant. What you will hear online right now and in forums is that studies in humans are extremely conflicting. So you have to go a little deeper than that. And that's the knee jerk that every doctor will say as well. The studies don't show that. I want to say this. Angie and I discovered an article with mice genetically grown, that do not have the capacity to make vitamin C. And then they took mice that are normal and they exposed...they exposed both groups to influenza, those without vitamin C died. Those who had it had a lot less inflammation and a lot less inflammatory cytokines. Right now in China there is an ongoing study where they're looking at giving IV vitamin C. So if you want to compare old studies that talk about the rhinovirus and does vitamin C help, what we know is looking at animal data, vitamin C is extremely important. And the reason why it's important is that we know it down regulates and inflammasome, inflammasome called NRLP. What that is, is we know that people are dying from what's called a cytokine storm, which is where your immune system overreacts to the virus. It starts with an inflammasome and then it becomes a domino effect. And just start turning on all these cytokines. So it also helps regenerate glutathione, which we're going to get into. And one of the only problems with vitamin C supplementation is if you take too much it can create some gi upset. When I was on Dr. Raun's summit, Dr. Lundqvist, who went on before me who's an expert in this did discuss something really cool, which I was unaware of when you are sick, you increase what's called your glute one receptors. So you will absorb more vitamin C that you take in, so your body knows when you're sick. So if you're not sick, and you're taking tons of it, you're probably gonna have some gi upset. If you're sick and you take a little extra, you'll probably be fine, which I thought was really cool. So I love learning from other really smart doctors. Next product everybody goes on vitamin D. Yes, we know that most people in the United States are vitamin d deficient in a systematic review, vitamin D appeared to protect individuals from acute respiratory infections. Vitamin D is expressed on both B and T cells, which are our immune cells. And what it does is it can modulate your immune response. I'll say that again, it can control your immune response. So it almost works more like a hormone in that it tells your body to not overreact, which is something super important. And low levels are associated with increased autoimmune disorders and increased infection rates. So looking at a different study, it looks like that taking high dose vitamin D on a weekly basis, which is what many doctors recommend, is not as effective in this particular case as taking a daily vitamin D supplement. So I would recommend somewhere around 1000 milligrams a day. Most supplements come in the 2500 to 5000 range but I'm on it and my family's on it as well. So super important to do that
Thing here so vitamin D foods are lot of your oily fishes, dairy milk cheeses and I think some of the greens like collard greens and mustard greens I think have vitamin D and of course don't forget you need to convert it. Get sunlight, get sunlight every day.
Yes, go out for walks. walk your dog Get out right now is a great time to get out. And yeah, thank you for saying this. I should have started with everything. I'm not saying get out. I should have started from the very beginning. Don't go out and buy a bunch of supplements. Try to eat the diet that has these ingredients in them first. Supplements supplement a healthy lifestyle, but is no substitute a healthy lifestyle. So that being said, Yeah, so thank you for bringing up those foods. And I will throw this at you now. A diet in healthy phytosterols. Phytosterols are vegetable oils that appear that they may block the binding site of these different Coronaviruses. In other words, the ACE-2 receptor that they keep talking about in the news uses cholesterol to bind to what is called a lipid raft and then that lipid raft of the virus binds to it and then it kind of slides down. I always think of it like the way that they describe those inflatable rafts when a plane lands on the water they come out and people come out that's how I think of it.
Don't you want to get into a situation where nobody gets hurt but you get to pull it I always wanted to inflate that stinking thing.
So a diet high in phytosterols. So things like you know what I'm gonna beat you to this one because I had that I actually had to look this up phytosterols isn't something phytosterols are very high nuts, legumes, grains and fruits and vegetables. It's a common theme here. We keep saying the same thing over and over. I mean, don't eat at McDonald's, eat your fruits and veggies, and healthy fish and things like that. And two more. And then this is this rounds out my list of science backed supplements that I can, I can at least lean on some data. Because there's a lot of things out there that people talk about. That is not my specialty is not my that I have not had a chance to get into. But n-acetylcysteine is something that I'm a big fan of, n-acetylcysteine (NAC) has some mucolytic properties. And in a 2017 meta analysis, meaning in 2017, they took all these studies, they found that treating patients with NAC NAC and n-acetylcysteine led to shorter duration of ICU stays in acute respiratory distress syndrome, which you geeked out on on the first episode explaining all about ARGS. So go back and watch the first episode because this is Eric's specialty, keeping people alive with that kind of problem. So salute to you for doing that kind of stuff. And Chinese protocols right now Chinese hospitals are using n-acetylcysteine as standard treatment when somebody comes in with coronavirus. It also does something really cool it increases glutathione levels. Glutathione is one of the most important cellular antioxidants. So what that does is it is a potent cellular antioxidant, and we need this for cellular health, cellular health kind of funny the guy that went on after me was Dr. Dan Pompa, who I who I love and his his whole his whole mission is cellular health, which is cool. A study looked at people with community acquired pneumonia, and they randomized them to either conventional treatment which would be antibiotics, and...conventional treatment antibiotics plus NAC. And what it showed was the NAC group healed quicker and had lower inflammatory markers. I'm currently taking like 600 milligrams BID, the dosages were all over the map in all these studies, but wow, okay. There's studies out here that show this and they essentially are you and I have talked about how NAC helps with alcohol metabolism, but this is a whole separate method. This is getting the glutathione and then ultimately, I'm recommending melatonin as well. Melatonin is a potent antioxidant. But one of the reasons is to make sure that you have everything functioning well. You got to sleep. During these very stressful times. You've got to get...try get eight hours of sleep. Please, please, please, please, please. And this is nuts. Kids don't seem to be affected by this virus and one of the speculative things is that kids have much higher melatonin than adults as we age we decrease our melatonin so over the age of 70 you have much less melatonin. I read an article describing how the higher melatonin that you have you in your NLRP3 inflammasome.
inflammasome yeah.
Is down regulated by melatonin
Nice.
You have your highest melatonin traditionally between ages one and five. And as we age it decreases and if you do not have a high melatonin you are susceptible to a cytokine storm cytokine storm as we talked about is your body overreacting. So one last time did you write those all down Eric? Can you...
I did.
Tell everybody what what what I feel science backed things may help during this pandemic,
In addition to a healthy diet of polyphenols or supplementation with polyphenols and of course we know where you can get that with Atrantil. There is strong science to suggest that you should couple a polyphenol diet with zinc, vitamin C, NAC or n-acetylcysteine, vitamin D, phytosterols, and melatonin. You can get zinc and NAC from meat, eggs, etc. Your vitamin C obviously comes from great citrus fruits and vegetables. Let's see here phytosterols there's tons of plants and seeds that have that in it and of course, if you don't produce enough melatonin that is a very common supplement. However, I will say though, that you want to be selective on probably where you where you buy melatonin that seems to be one of those.
Oh yeah, yeah we that's a whole separate show. I actually pay to belong to examine.com and consumer labs.com. I'm a user because I go there and I have them do the analysis. That's a third party analysis. So any of these supplements make sure that they're third party analyzed. So those are the ones that I can sink my teeth into really deep and go, this clearly looks like this. Now, there's other things that a lot of other people will be like, oh, well, what about this? What about this? What about that? I'd like for instance, broccoli, broccoli, or sulforaphane? Sulforaphane comes in broccoli sprouts. I found some articles that show that coronavirus may decrease your NRF two pathway which is the pathway that leads to inflammation and that so I'm also taking that we know that that actually has some antibacterial effects. Shivan and I got kind of deep into it yesterday in the CBOE summit, where we talked about how I'm using that in my CBOE people as well. I'm having pretty good results. So that would be one that I can't really say, I've looked at the science, but I'm seeing anecdotal evidence and it's probably good for you anyways. So if it has some ability to help with this infection, that would be awesome. And we know that like, CBD attenuates the immune system, so it at least gets you back to balanced immune and neurologic systems. So I'm obviously a big fan of that. And that's you can go to our website and take a look there. I'm not saying not recommending it, that this is any type of cure treatment or benefit to this particular pandemic. I'm recommending to make sure that you're doing everything you can to try and improve your immune system.
Definitely, if you're if you're a frontline health care worker, just be certain that you're doing all you can to take in a good diet. Be certain to get your exercise and know that you're probably hustling all over the hospital floor or OR just taking care of patients even if they don't happen to be COVID patients. You want to be certain that you're keeping yourself nice and healthy in that environment, get sleep, no matter what just prioritize sleep, your immune system just will never be as strong as it possibly can if your body is not getting rest, so sunlight, sleep in addition to a good diet, it will make for a much better outcome in the long run for certain.
Definitely, we and we won't stop these installments for the COVID talks until we we more or less feel comfortable that we're heading that direction. I will say that we've been put in contact with an infectious disease doctor in the Department of Defense that actually he probably can't join us live or recorded on the next installment of of the COVID file. However, he is going to vet some questions that Dr. Brown has sent his way. Basically just just read his responses back.
Yeah, absolutely. And we want to, once again, thank everyone who's worked in the hospital systems working, shift work, or EMS people. You guys are the true heroes because you are doing shift work you affect your sleep cycles, you're getting a lot of stress. I know I've talked to some emergency room physicians who are seeing other issues with this shut-in like, unfortunately some more domestic abuse going on and things like that because people are forced to being you know, the finances are tight, and the the quarters are tight and everybody is you know, struggling but hang in there. We're gonna get through this and what I just got done telling you even if you even if you're sitting there like it's been like what I like turning it because you guys like to joke around what do you do? I was just nerdy. Just bottom line is, it looks like we're heading in the right direction for figuring out how to how to stop this.
That's perfect.
Got a little bit different perspective as an ID doc, as well as tending to the pediatric side in combination with ID. That said, though, it probably won't be a full week until we come back with the next installment simply because we're finding some more time to dedicate collecting research and kind of really getting it organized. We certainly appreciate everyone sharing the last installment. Hopefully, we'll do the same here. And when the show notes for this one on the YouTube YouTube presentation, we'll be sure and list all of the supplement lists that that Ken laid out for you. And I don't know, it's a pretty powerful episode. I hope that people can begin to arm themselves and I think that the next time we're going to have some some good feedback and start rounding the corner to better days.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, appreciate everyone tuning in. appreciate everyone staying home. It is real. We still have to practice at least right now. What's the you know we're in March. We're still practicing social distancing.
I almost forgot and I'll put this in show notes also, if you're looking to just make a difference in your community, Ron Lynch is a really close friend of Dr. Brown and I his name as name is Ron Lynch. He just started intellihelp about a week ago or a week and a half ago and intellihelp and intellihelp.org
Intelahelp
Help. HELP. Intellihelp can be founded intellihelp.org. And intellihelp is intellihelp on Facebook. What it does, it's a very free service if you are available to give and help in service in any way. They've done really, really well over the last almost 10 or 15 days of if a woman needs diapers to take care of her kiddos and she doesn't want to leave the house. She just basically posts it someone who happens to be coming back from grocery store drops it off someone that kiddo needs to have an availability to have a free lunch dropped off because they're not getting lunches from school. Yeah, intellihelp is there to serve those people and to give you the ability to give back to them and trust me, if you feel a little bit down in the dumps, you'll feel a lot better once you're able to help somebody else and you feel like that you're not
That's awesome. That's awesome. So how do we prevent like a you know, our partner Mike Logsdon from gettin' on Intellihelp said I need a Guiness delivered to my house right now.
There's no way to prevent that from happening because because Mike may need that Mike may need that Guiness.
That is true.
I have a feeling that as close as you live once you get on intellihelp Ken you'll be...
Loyda goes where are you goin'? Mike needs his Guiness again.
There's nothing I can do. I'm going to drop off some diapers and some can some some black aluminum cans at Mike's house.
Yes. I love that. Awesome. Well, Ron Lynch, kudos to you. That is badass. Awesome. Thank you for being part of the solution.
Definitely, definitely. All right. Well, I think that's the the end of second summit will be like I said it won't be a week until we get the third in. And we'll get a little bit more regular, a little bit more frequent as more news evolves. We're just kind of setting the stage here. But yeah,
And if everyone can just comment, and let me know if you want it this sciency not so sciency. I mean, we're, we're, we're all learning as we go during this, because the because everything's coming out by the hour. Yeah. And we have the ability to go as deep as you want. We have the ability to find stuff that is not in print yet. And that's what I like when we're talking about stuff. And then three weeks later, the news we were talking about the anazmio well before it even made the news.
Yeah. Well wondering if it was true, right. Remember that you said have read this. I have no idea if this is even accurate. I mean, between that and people shoving hair dryers up their nose, we didn't know which direction to go.
True. Heat up the nose. That's right.
Don't do that. It's terrific idea. All right. Well, ladies and gentlemen, thank y'all so much for tuning in and sharing a next installment here rather soon and they may not all be nearly this long, we may have some shorter...
How long was this?
Right in an hour?
What?
Yeah.
It felt like 10 minutes.
It's just a lot of info. Well, thank you Ken and, Paul, thanks for of course for putting everything together. We will see y'all next time on next COVID installment. I'm Eric Gregor. That's Dr. Ken Brown here with a gut check project. We will see y'all next time.
Stay safe, everybody.
All right, welcome KBMD Health and Gut Check Project bring you COVID Files, episode number one. It's a little bit different setting right now. I am not sitting in front of or next to Ken Brown my partner. What's up, Ken?
What's going on Eric? Yeah, you sound a little bit different, but that's all part of it. We are practicing some social distancing.
We definitely are. Brown does have a nice brick wall behind him. And I've kind of got one back over here. So if you happen to be looking on YouTube, you can see we've got a wild lamp.
Yeah, just in case just in case somebody accuses us of lying. There's two brick walls.
Yeah, there's there's definitely two two brick walls. So Brown is...Ken you're sittin' what about 60 miles from me? And but we both been having to stay up to date with the facilities that we served the anesthesia you and gastroenterology you could call it a hospital that's actually handled a patient.
We had our first death two days ago from COVID 19. So this is a real thing. I was working in the hospital. This is something that I felt like, it's time although I'm not a virologist, you're not a virologist. Neither one of us are epidemiologists, we do have an obligation as healthcare workers to try and describe everything that we've been reading to get it out to people. So this is something that we cannot ignore meaning as a opportunity and a platform to give some information. Hopefully, we can give something that anybody watching this will at least clarify a few things. That's my goal here is to discuss some of the definitions get into what we're going to look at, should we panic, should we not panic? where's this going? All the things that I asked? Because I spent a lot of time looking at literature, we've got graduate students working for us, we've got nurses working for us, that look up a lot of things. So that's what I want to do in this show today is try and discuss all of it out there. Because the more informed you are, the more that you will be part of the solution. That's the important thing, and realistic, and a healthy amount of fear is appropriate. But not freaking out is the key here.
I agree 100%. And something else I've been home just like you have and in between taking care of work and then keeping up with work. And then obviously, having a great amount of family time while being in a social quarantine, you end up consuming a lot of different information. So what I don't want our show today to be is just the personal emotional things only really we want to do exactly what Brown said. And that is move into information that you can use. Top to bottom, we want to explain things from the top level down so that we can we want to get everybody into understanding. There's unfortunately because it's a new novel virus. There's lots of misinformation in terms of what does it do? How is it affecting us and rather than take a guess I think that what Ken has for you here today is lots of up to date information, we're going to try to put it into a, a mode that you can use, accept and improve and protect yourself.
Because I think what ends up happening is a lot of people, especially people that are trying to quarantine themselves, or they're staying at home, they do binge social media mediaing Is that right? Where they just kind of get on social media and just binge all of it? And it seems like if you look at that, there's going to be two camps of people. You've got the oh, what's the big deal? Nothing's going on. And I see these videos in Florida where people are playing tug of war on the beach, and there's hundreds of people and I'm just like, ph my goodness. And then it's the no, we're in a zombie apocalypse and they, you know, take all the toilet paper and hand sanitizer from the stores. So the only thing I've learned from that is that apparently zombies really hate toilet paper is the best I can tell about that.
They can't stand it.
They can't stand it. So the zombie apocalypse if that's the case, throw toilet paper at them. Unlike Walking Dead where you have to like smash them in the brain apparently toilet paper is the biggest defense that you can have against zombie apocalypse.
Yeah, we don't this is not this is not an avenue the COVID File Episode One is not an avenue to drive people to go and make a bunch of unnecessary purchases or to go in and hoard things that your neighbor needs. So this is let's stay factual. And honestly, Brian, I'm going to kick it off to you and let you kind of lay out the template now outline on how we're going to address the different things and
Yeah so you know, normally, I mean, one of the things that I really like to do on Gut Check Project because, you know, joke around and make light of things but I'm having a really hard time making light of this particular thing. So I am neither in the camp that this is oh, what's the big deal and I'm not in the zombie apocalypse, but I do really think that we all need to take this particular thing extremely serious, and we need to get into it. One of the things that I've noticed is a lot of people have trouble with the different terms that are being used in the news. I mean, they get on press conferences, and they just throw these terms out. How is this changing the world? I mean, there are single moms that are waitresses that their restaurant it has been closed. And this is there's a lot of things going on like that. And I've actually, I knew that we were onto something when I've been trying to get an infectious disease doctor to come on the Gut Check project that physically come on for it really kind of ramped up here in the US, and a few of them were like, nah, I'm good. I think I'm gonna lay low and try and separate myself. And, you know, they basically said, you're on your own on this and I'm like, okay, so this is, I'm gonna have to learn about this myself. And I just want to share the information that I have uncovered about my concerns. And so my concerns are what are all these different terms after we get that, you know, how do you actually present? What's going on with the numbers? What are these numbers real? How infective is this? And then I want to get into some good news about what's going on. And that's where a lot of the research is happening. So we can talk about all these things. Because when I asked my nurses, hey, these different terms, what do these mean to you? Most people don't really get it because CNN, and Fox and these different news stations, they interchange all these names. And so let's start with that. Let's learn the four virus related terms so that everybody's on the same page, because when you read medical literature, they refer to it as one way when you listen to the news, they refer to it, and then they lump everything into COVID19. So let's just start with this. So the definitions, SARS, CoV2, so when people when scientists talk about this, they always talk about as the SARS CoV2, you'll hear infectious disease doctors refer to it as that. It is a type of Corona virus. In the beginning when everybody kept saying this is a Corona virus virus you Google it and I remember I've had friends and stuff go, what's the big deal? It causes a cold like symptom. Well, the thing is, that's a family of viruses, the Corona the reason why when they first came out, they said this was a novel Corona virus, which was not the word that they should have used. That is the word that infectious disease doctors would say they should have said we have a scary Corona virus here. That would have been catching people's attention a little bit more but novel Corona virus meant that it was a different type of coronavirus. So in that family this Corona virus is the SARS CoV2 two because it is a SARS meaning as severe acute respiratory Syndrome type Corona virus like SARS CoV nothing in 2003. That's how come these names are so confusing. So it's SARS CoV2 is this virus, which the closest thing we can relate it to, is SARS Cov, which was in 2003. So that's the virus. The current virus is not called COVID 19. COVID 19 is the infectious disease caused by this virus. So SARS CoV2 is the actual virus, and it owns it basically owes its name to its genetic similarity to the original virus, the SARS CoV. So that is short for severe acute Respiratory Syndrome Corona virus 2. So that's the definition that's the actual virus. Corona virus. Corona viruses are this big family. SARS CoV is the 2003 one SARS CoV2 is the novel Corona virus that we're dealing with. So that's the guy that we're actually dealing with. COVID19 is the disease that you get from this. Currently there are seven Corona viruses that can cause human disease. With the three most severe being the SARS MERS, which is the Mediterranean one and then COVID19.
And just for clarification, the D itself does mean disease. So it is CO for Corona VI for virus and then D for disease and then 19, I believe is assigned because it was first discovered at the end of 2019.
That's exactly right. So this is exactly what like what we're saying when we first discovered human immunodeficiency virus, and then you would develop Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome AIDS. So it's very similar to that where you can there's the virus, it causes this disease, and so CoV...so COVID19 is the infectious disease caused by the SARS CoV2 virus. What's alarming is that as a much higher fatality rate than the flu, so a lot of people were saying I don't really understand more people died of the flu, more people died of the flu because the flu is more ubiquitous. If this thing takes off, then you're gonna have a much higher mortality rate. What the people don't really well, now everybody starting to understand and...so I mean, by the way, everything changes daily. I've listened to a lot of experts. And they're like, as of March 19, this is what we know, because they're freely admitting that as of March 22, we may have something new information on this. So what we do know is that it's the incubation period is quite long, which is why it spreads so easily because you may not have any symptoms. And then you're out there looking and feeling healthy and not taking any precautions, and then you get in contact with somebody, and we're going to talk about that a little bit later. Same reason why we're doing the social isolation, we both feel great. We're not doing it because we have a fever or we have a cough or anything bad's going on. We're doing it because we understand that you can already be infected and keep spreading it. So we're gonna sit there and do this. So I'm gonna now I'm going to quiz you because you've been doing a lot of reading. So how does the typical presentation happen when somebody is exposed to the SARS CoV2 virus?
Typical presentation, and I guess you're asking me if somebody happens to have been infected, and now they're complaining of symptoms, is that what you're talking...?
Correct. What is what are the typical symptoms people should be looking out for?
The first thing, or most common, I believe is just a mild fever, followed by a little bit of discomfort and malaise. If they then later in developing something along the lines of a shortness of breath is going to be a key player, which hopefully at that point, the person has then decided that they need to seek help, but unfortunately, the way that I've been reading the timeline, oftentimes people are just simply not going until the progression grows. And if I understand correctly, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but what we're looking at by the time that symptoms generally set up is about a five day play out from the first time that somebody experiences a fever, and unfortunately waiting until the fifth day before seeking to find out if the cause of the fever happens to be related to this particular Coronavirus may be too late for those who are somewhat compromised, because the development of shortness of breath is the early stage of and we'll get into it, but the inflammation and bring it down to the lung tissue. And that begins a small little snowball that turns into a big avalanche of different things that we'll get into here in a moment. But it's interesting and I don't want to walk backwards here but you said what is the presentation the unfortunate part is the once someone becomes infected and then becomes contagious to the world around them before they show symptoms, that that five day stretch could take off after the second day they've been exposed, or can wait all the way until it looks like the 14th day. And unfortunately for the human race, we may be those particular people may be infectious or contagious to the world around them for up to 14 days without ever knowing it, spreading the virus.
Absolutely. So we're gonna get into that because then we're going to talk about the epidemiology and why this is a little bit frightening if we all don't do our part, right. So the bottom line is you're exactly right sore throat, malaise, fever. In 80% of the infected people we believe right now, that symptoms include this kind of mild situation, we're going to call that mild so a lot of people think they had a small cold or they had the slight flu or whatever. 20% of the people, you're going to end up with a 20% of the people, you're going to end up with a more serious respiratory infection, which is pneumonia. Now approximately 2 to 3% of those people will will die. And if you end up with a severe pneumonia, and a severe inflammatory reaction, then what will happen is that if you end up getting bad enough to go on a ventilator, we're seeing that 86% of those people die. So the people that do get sick get really sick. So, yesterday, I was actually preparing this and this is one of the things so when I sit there and watch these videos in Florida of people saying, man, it's not a big deal and I say Florida because somebody sent me a video of people in spring break in Florida. I'm not trying to bash Florida in any way. So I get on a website where I can sit there and kind of track these things sort of real time. Yesterday, March 19 the Corona virus cases were 236,728...236. Today, 266,000. 30,000 people have been diagnosed since yesterday.
It's a logrith...it's a logarithmic growth.
Oh, yeah. And we're gonna get into that why because I think that's where the real it's not that the science the science of the of the virus and everything is super. If you're a virologist, it's interesting and everything, but when you and this is an epidemiologist's, nightmare slash, the thing that they went to school for. So a lot of them are geeking out, they're doing all these modeling and all these other things that are going out there. So there was 9,828 deaths yesterday. Today, we're up to 11,186. As far as the US yesterday, we had 11,348 cases today, 16,000, 5000 cases 16,491. The death toll went from 171 to 224. So the US here's the good news is that up until just about a week ago, the US fatality rate was around 3%. Because and this is kind of what's going to happen when we diagnose more people. Now it's down to 1.5% what that means is rescreening more people, people that normally wouldn't even go get screened are going to do this. So but you contrast that to Italy, that over the past three days, the death percentage was around 6%. And then just yesterday, it was 8%. You were gonna say something?
No, no, that's I was just pointing out I mean, it's unfortunately their, their rate versus versus diagnosis is actually moving in the wrong direction over the last 48 hours.
Yes, it is. And so Italy is and the the really scary part is, is I sent a graph to all our team members that we were outpacing Italy with our cases, at the at the day to day rate, and I get that we have a higher population and all these other things people can argue that but it's
But I will say in the balance and it is hard. Just as you and I wanted to always present things in balance. The hard part is we have a limitation of testing capacity just as much as we do carrying capacity. And the hard part is is where are we going to get to the point of growth in number equals the sample, and by the sample the number of people in the United States, so it isn't nearly as alarming to me and probably not to you either Ken to watch the number of diagnoses skyrocket it probably on the on the on the front end? It's just that we're testing more people. It's just where is our ratio and our rate going to fall for morbidity and unfortunately, also mortality? Because I don't know. But testing is going to be imperative for to grow.
We're going to talk about that because some new data has come out about the testing. As I said, day to day Remember, this is a world wide issue. So every single day scientists from China scientists from South Korea from France from Spain from Italy, Everybody's collaborating, and everybody's pulling their data. And we're learning more and more and more on a daily basis, but we're going to talk about the testing. What we do know is that the doctors in Italy described that most patients displayed this bilateral interstitial pneumonia. So unlike getting a pneumonia, where you have it, so typically what happens is if you have pneumonia, it's an infection, it will, in fact, a portion of the lobe of your lung or a whole lobe, but basically you have the rest of your lungs to compensate. Here, it's both sides, and it's in everything. And when that happens is bilateral interstitial pneumonia, meaning that it's on well, I'm not going to get into the pathology of it, but basically, the cells get infected, they die and then we lose the ability to produce surfactant. Surfactant is the lubrication that allows your cells, your alveoli to exchange oxygen, and this is a little bit more in your wheelhouse with your anaesthesia. Why don't you comment on that?
Yeah, no, it's, it's it's exactly what I had some experience managing for several years early on. And oftentimes people that fall into this category long before Coronavirus lent itself to, to this epidemic here there was a situation or a diagnosis called ARDS or acute respiratory distress syndrome. And typically, the way to best describe it is it's almost like a localized immune autoimmune disease for your lungs. It happens because as the cells begin to break down and we all have these little bitty finger like cilia on our lungs, right, or to help with gas exchange and to hold a surfactant to break down the fluids, so that we can exchange it. The surfactant is breaking you down what happens is is that are immune cells which should.
Eric, just really quick backup to right before you said Sir fact that you froze on me and I missed what you said, what were you saying but right right before the surfactant thing,
Sorry about that it's surfactant level, it should be breaking down the fluid to allow for better gas exchange. And what's happening is our immune system in this particular state of ARDS is breaking down cells faster than they can be carried away. And when that happens, we have fluid buildup, it dilutes the surfactant and I don't want to talk over anyone's head. But essentially, our immune system begins to attack both bad cells and good cells, allowing for too much degradation or breakdown of our lungs and the tissue that we exchange the gas with. And then things begin to build up. And essentially you begin to drown from the inside we think of drowning or, you know, bringing in water and being being submerged not being able to breathe this being an awful existence. But imagine the fluid building up from in your lungs, you you're not consuming the fluid. It's here it's inside. So, pneumonia itself is kind of like that. But just as Ken said, if we catch it early enough, it's it's isolated. That happens in one lobe or one area of the lung with ARDS, which is what this could turn into, it happens all over the lungs all over the body. And what we do with an ARDS patient, is we tried to ventilate them by putting a tube in, we secure the airway, and what we tried to do is more or less force gas exchange by using what we call positive pressure ventilation, by blowing air through the tube, and so that we can force it into the lungs and then it can be exchanged. And then what ends up happening with those same patients is, is we normally would think of laying in bed on our backs and our head slightly raised. The lungs themselves can become damaged if the fluid is allowed to just basically sit there for a while. And the only way to keep the air movement in there is to rotate the bed. So oftentimes you'll see an ARDS patient who is intubated. And there'll be on their back side that they face down. And they have to continually be rotated to preserve the integrity of the lungs and actually to facilitate to facilitate good gas exchange. And I'll stop there with the management of the ARDS patient because you and I both know somebody else who does even the next level, which is the ECMO and we can get into that.
Yeah, we well...so here's the problem with all that is that we know that from the account from the Italian doctors and our Chinese physicians, even young patients were developing this interstitial pneumonia and they were developing very dramatic, shocking pulmonary situations with this bilateral interstitial pneumonia. Now, the mortality of the critically ill patient of a SARS CoV2 pneumonia is extremely high. If you end up on a ventilator, it's 86%. Now, Eric, what you're talking about is the highest level of care. We're going to get into why almost nobody is getting these very isolated, very unique beds that can actually do this. And we know...
I'm glad you said that. And well, what do I want to I want to just restate what you just said, what I just described is if you happen to be the most serious, that would be the optimal situation that you would be fortunate enough to end up in.
That would be there's two, maybe two beds like that in a hospital in a large hospital. And when somebody is at that point, you call up for that bed, and you walk in and you watch this incredible science going on where it's the physiology and the pathophysiology at this battle. But we're we're going to get into this and that is the real issue is that getting the appropriate care to everybody. Remember that a lot of these Chinese doctors that first well the whistleblower that first discovered it other doctors. 40 year old doctors were dying from this. So this is and there were doctors in a hospital dying. So this is this is actually very that's what kind of perked my interest several weeks ago where I went. And I admittedly was the person that was like, why are we all getting all worked up about this because I know and I was trying to defuse the situation and be like, this looks like A Boy That Cried Wolf by the media. It's not a big deal, quit running out buying, you know, all this other stuff. And then I started reading about stuff going on in China and I'm like, holy cow, wait a minute, doctors and nurses are dying. So this is a big deal. So one of the things that I really started looking into, I'm like, okay, the only comparison we have to this is the SARS of 2003. Now, the reason why we didn't have to really deal with that, except pretty much stayed in the we're gonna call it the eastern side of the world. So a lot of these countries like South Korea, that have been so prepared for SARS CoV2 is because they...this is round two for them. They they saw it coming. They had testing kits, they did quarantine immediately. And they really put this thing on lockdown because they've already been through this, because the thing about SARS 2003 is that the mortality rate was really high. It was like 20% it was brutal. But we have now shown that this SARS CoV2 scientists believe is 1000 times more infective than the SARS 2003. And this is due to a lot of different reasons but due to the high mutation rate of the spike proteins, everybody's seen the example of the little spiky ball protein that the the media loves to play. This virus is showing a pattern of much higher infectiousness so a study released in released by some scientists in Germany on March 8, in 2020 found that this particular coronavirus could be found in the throat well before symptoms...well before symptoms. So what they're seeing is that there could be a huge increase in viral load in the back of the throat, way before any symptoms show up. So upon taking throat swabs from these patients, then they tried to show that all the results from day one to five tested positive for COVID19. But the high viral load from these early throat swabs indicated potential viral replication in the upper respiratory tract earlier. This means that you can have active viral replication in the throat during the five, first five days, and it will continue just like you explained for 14 days, which is why if people are going around, I feel fine. And I'm, you know, by the time we're asking if you have a fever, we're learning this is why it's there. Now, everybody's like what makes it so inffective. This gets a little bit hairy. And Eric, you and I have talked about this because we've tried to figure it out. I was just on PubMed looking at some different studies and one of the studies was discussing specifically the ACE-2 receptor. And people may be talking about this, but it appears that this particular virus binds to at least the H2 receptor, and possibly a Furan receptor. And the names of them are irrelevant. But the thing that's interesting is that both of these are kind of ubiquitous in the body, but they're heavily concentrated in the lung, and in the GI tract. So now we're seeing that you can get this both through your upper respiratory system and your gastrointestinal tract. One of the things a study just came out, Dr. Idim and I were talking about this this morning, because I just saw it this morning. This is how fast it changes. You get on the news and you're like, oh my gosh, it appears that 20% of people with COVID19 will actually gastrointestinal symptoms before they actually show the upper respiratory type symptoms. So this is what I mean. And it was no joke in the beginning when we were talking, protecting your gut is super important. So this is why a gastroenterologist is talking about COVID19, I at least have a role to protect your gut to make sure that that line of defense is taken care of. So what will happen is, is that this virus super tricky, will bind to this H2 receptor, and then it kind of knocks on the cell door and then the cell lets it in. And then the virus comes in, and basically hijacks a cell and lets the cell become the manufacturing plant for its own mRNA or its own RNA. And by having that happen, then it can develop more viruses. This is actually how the virus works. And so people argue, is it a living organism is not a living organism. I think most people have always felt that they're not living. But the fact that they can do these things they just need. It's the classic, or the most perfect example of a parasite. They hijack a cell, they get the cell to do what it wants. And that's how these viruses work.
They're just kind of brainless. I mean, they you said it best, the mRNA the RNA is what is taken and replicated. And not to get too scientific. But I've always learned that viruses, although we don't say that they are completely unliving. They're not really living organisms. They're just, they're just RNA in a strand, they're not even DNA. They're just programmed to go in and disrupt a cell and basically hijack the replication capacity of a cell and make it to what it wants to become, which unfortunately, is usually to the demise of the cell itself.
Yeah. And so in the most simplistic way, imagine the cell attaching to a lung to a lung cell and it does this then that lung cell gets taken over and it starts producing the virus. Well eventually that cell dies. And then that's where the cell dies. And it can no longer produce the surfactant can no longer do the other stuff that we're talking about. And then enough of that happens, and then you have this demise of the lung tissue and you cannot aerate. Well, something else happens. If it gets into other tissues, or if it does this, or if you have a healthy immune system, we now know that young people can actually have something called a cytokine storm. So what happens is your body overreacts to that, like your body goes, this is nuts. We've got this viral invasion, we have to get rid of it. And this may be one of the reasons why younger people are having this massive thing. So the only comparison to that is the Spanish Flu of 1918 of the reasons why it was so deadly, is because it actually created the cytokine storm in the most of the people that are infected. So what that means is that people with the healthiest immune systems died-that was 18 to 25 year olds, that's what made that particular flu so devastating.
Yeah, I even saw a bar graph, it specifically addressed that almost every pandemic almost on the ends. If you're an infant or very, very old, it's almost where the highest mortality rate is. And for Spanish flu, it's kind of interesting. The ends are spiked. And then it goes down in the middle, it comes right back up into a spike, where we generally have our healthiest population and it was for precisely the same reason you described, it's, it elicits a cytokine storm, which is just people who happen to be in shape and the immune system doesn't know what to do. So it unleashes everything. It's almost like just self destruction.
Okay, so that's our basic science class and I'm sure we're gonna get some calls from some neurologists to be like yeah, you missed you almost had it right. But whatever, but this is not we're not getting deep into the science. What we really my my other thing is why do we need to is this a time for some serious caution. And this is the part that I'm gonna get into that is a little bit scary. I'm not the first one to be talking about this. I have been looking at this for quite a while. But now I overheard Governor Cuomo talking about this people, the politicians are discussing all of this, and it's not the death rate. It's the need of the hospital system that is the scary part.
Yeah, definitely and needs to the hospital system. And we can get into it. We can get into the specific numbers here just in North Texas. And just to use it as comparison, I think around 80% of our audience that's watching and or listening happens to be in this area. So we'll get into some hard numbers on bed availability, ICU availability, what it is that we currently use without the issues of COVID19 and then where our resources get reallocated if we happen to experience which unfortunately, it looks like we most likely will a surge of patients.
Yeah so, so this is not this is not my opinion. Like all things we let's let's talk about some of the science that's out there. So I was listening to Dr. Grewal out of, I think how you say his name out of New York City, and he did some quick calculations. This is actually on the on the Peter Attia, a podcast when he was there. And he was talking about how if they calculated the ICU beds in New York City, and at a growth rate that we're at right now, which we'll get into it, which is called the R-Not, I'll explain that in a second. In two weeks, all of the New York City ICU beds would be taken. Taking it further, a study came out of USA Today yesterday or the day before. It was an analysis that showed if the nation continues to grow at this rate in the effective mount, what R-Not is in epidemiologic terms, it's written as R-0 so you may see it as that or it's pronounced as R-Not that means that one person can infect three people. Right now our R-Not is being described somewhere between 2.8 to like four, let's just say it's three to be due to be a nice round number even at three, if we don't stop this and so whenever people talk about flattening the curve, what they're talking about is the R-Not because we have to change that. So a USA Today analysis show that if the nation continues with this R-Not that we have, there could be almost six seriously ill patients for every existing hospital bed-think about that. Six people needing that hospital bed. Then they got into the whole analysis of based on the data from the American Hospital Association, the World Health Organization is being fairly conservative. It assumes that all 790,000 beds would already be empty, but they're not. Most hospitals are already almost at capacity, with the other stuff that we deal with like heart attacks and strokes and diverticulitis and gallbladder disease and everything else that happens to humans. Car wrecks, trauma. You know, and so then I saw a really scary one, where somebody was saying that if this continues, then we could have essentially 17, including the beds are already counted already there. We could have 17 people waiting for a bed in the whole United States. Now, Germany just published the paper yesterday, this is how fast it changes, like I mean, you just get on and you're like, whoa, they said that they haven't R-Not of two. If it continues like this, that'll be over a million people and they will lose all their ICU beds in 100 days. So if we sit there and say, well, the mortality rate of this and it will continue to decrease as more people get diagnosed, but then if we utilize the health care system, then the mortality rates going to grow exponentially, because the usual stuff can't get in then. So that's two thirds that...I mean, we could literally have 70 people competing for an open bed. And this assumes that we continue with this are not the are not, is based on our social lifestyle. So the reason why we're doing this podcast this way is because we're trying to do our part to break this R-Not of 1:3. If we can get to 1:1 or something less than that, then what we're trying to do is buy a little time by slowing the curve. We need to buy a little time to allow the medical infrastructure to catch up, be prepared or whatever it needs to do, because we are doing a lot of cool things. So you wanna say anything about that?
But just in terms of application, so as a young person and even even back when you and I were probably questioning the the seriousness of the new novel Coronavirus or COVID19, however you wish to phrase it about two and a half weeks ago before it really started to get our attention. So in that, in that element we somewhat dismissed it as flu. But the progression of somebody who's sick with flu does not require near the resources. And on top of that, they're, they're contagious stage is usually commensurate about the time they begin to show symptoms so that they know they kind of should remove themselves from public exposure. This is the opposite. And when you find someone who is young and healthy, who most likely will not have terrible symptoms or even know that they are necessarily infected, the younger that they are, here's how it can affect you. Or it can it can affect you not infect you but affect you. So Ken just laid it out why we have all these hospital beds and the different resources that will be made available to somebody if the R-Not continues at a factor of three. Here's some hard numbers with DFW for instance. So in the DFW Metroplex, we have roughly 7.5 million people give or take. And that's that's the rough range, right? In this area, though, and all accounting and not including surgical centers, but high level hospital beds, we have roughly 15,000 beds. Well, that sounds okay. But right now before Coronavirus or COVID diagnoses have been affected or played a part in that. Already, two thirds of those beds are being used. Yeah. So we have less than 5000 beds total. Now that does not include Intensive Care Unit beds. So as it begins to break down the numbers, what we're looking at is roughly 80% of the people that will present and being diagnosed with COVID will be what they call mild to moderate. Even some of those moderate cases. I think it's around 40% of moderate cases will require some hospitalization. Okay, well, that plays into some of the numbers. How long is it hospitalization, roughly two to four days, then you move into the severe that makes up roughly 14% of everybody else who gets diagnosed with COVID. 14% of those people require supplemental oxygen and check in. Their hospital stay typically is lasting almost seven days. Now, that's a week. So 14% of the 80% of seven and a half million we're really starting to press, press out against what we have for a resources. That's not even the worst of it. If you are critical, meaning you get diagnosed with respiratory or organ failure requiring a ventilator, we typically only count an ICU room is one that has the capacity to handle a mechanical ventilator. That's less than 2,000 of those beds. And I can't remember what the current census count is on our ICU beds that are taken right now but I think it's 60%.
Did you see how long that if you have COVID19 And you're put on a ventilator, what the average length is?
It's almost two and 2.8 weeks, isn't that correct?
Yeah, it's somewhere between three to six weeks.
So the sad part here is, is it doesn't necessarily if it were in a vacuum and one person were diagnosed with severe COVID, and we could take them and do everything that we were talking about with a typical ARDS patient, we would have the best chance at a great outcome for that particular person. But that's not what we're up against. Now we have, let's just use some some fake numbers, but we have 1,000 beds, but with 5000 people that need them. And as people begin to pile up, even if someone gets there on a Tuesday, and then you get diagnosed on a Wednesday, you're going to have to wait three weeks for that bed. That's where the resources become incredibly stressed. And now how it comes back to those same people who said, well, it won't affect me, I'm too young. If you're in a car wreck, or you happen to be in happen to have just a completely different issue where your gallbladder is is giving you fits or you end up with diverticulitis, or you suddenly have a rectal bleed, or you suddenly get knocked while you're playing sports or whatever. And you require the ICU bed or that high level of acuity, unfortunately, COVID19 now is affecting you or loved one because it's not going to be available.
I love how you say that because when you when when people are saying, well, it's not you know, it's not going to bother me, you know that President Trump keeps talking about how he really needs the millennials to be part of this because they have higher or according to him, they're not taking it serious enough. But you're exactly right. If you've got, I mean, I have all my patients that have Crohn's and colitis that are like what happens if I get a flare? What do I do? Well, it's gonna, and you're exactly right, putting in those terms. You're going to be squeezed out. I mean, it would be it would be one of the most horrific tragedies to have somebody die of oh something let's just say. Let's just take it out a little ways here. You said diverticulitis. diverticulitis is an inflammation of a diverticulum, which normally is easily treated. But if it doesn't get treated quickly, then it can form into an abscess then it can perforate, and then you have peritonitis, which leads to septicemia, which leads to death. So something that is completely preventable gets pushed out two weeks to try and get evaluated. And then well, that's a that's now we're...so I hope the whole point is not to do the oh my gosh, it does sound like a zombie apocalypse. But everybody needs to take this as serious as we're making it sound because the numbers when you listen to experts, these epidemiologists talk, they do not sugarcoat and they get very, very real, like the numbers you're talking about. Those are easily, you know, extrapolated and you can look at it, it's not like it's not Eric Rieger's opinion. This is just what's out there.
No it is what's out there and those are the resources and in fact, when we were doing an inventory of what could be made shift ICU beds just to kind of give a glimpse on what what's being discussed in terms of people who typically do elective procedures, I do elective procedures predominantly, one of the surgery centers that cover happens to have four ORs. Each one of those ORs has an anesthesia machine. A lot of people don't know that's an anesthesia machine really is just a big ventilator, that has the ability to entrain volatile agents to help keep people asleep. Well, those four ventilators now, we now have makeshift ICU beds that's becoming a part of the count, which has never been a part of the community count of ICU beds before. So some of these surgery centers will be makeshift, more than likely COVID patient care units are where we will be able to monitor these people and give us more capacity, but it still won't be enough if we're not all on board to help stop the spread.
So that is a lot of heavy science. That is a lot of doom and gloom. Let's get into some good news. So because I'm yeah, I'm hopeful we are going to get through this. This is a worldwide problem. And you've got some of the smartest scientists in the world collaborating together for the first time. So here's just a few of the things and this as golly I don't remember when I was this is a few days ago so who knows what's all going on right now. But I just mentioned that the US death curve went from 3% down to 1.5%. So that's awesome. China has flattened their curve as of yesterday, I believe that they did not report any new cases. So today is March 20th. Um in the Peter Attia podcast that I listen to, they were discussing that it could be that the corona test could only be 68% positive. And they were really scared about how devastating that would be if there were false negatives going out. A study just got published out of China. So a lot of this data that we're getting is the Chinese scientists doing retrospective studies and the Italians and the in the Iranians that have are now being able to look at the data that they have, and they're giving it to the world. There's, nobody's saying, oh, well, this is our information. And so but a study just published out of China was reporting a false positive rate of close to 40%. So the good news is, if that is true, what that means is that we're at least telling many people that you're positive quarantine yourself for two weeks, and so you're giving them a stamp of you have to be isolated. We don't like false positives or false negatives, but if you're going to have a poor sensitivity test, make sure that it is a It is a false positive in this particular case. So that people self quarantine. I believe that there are multiple vaccine trials going on. I think that US had its first human participant, and I believe Israel has human participants. Everybody's saying, when's that gonna happen? Well, as you know, as well, as I do that, you know, these vaccines probably are not going to be available for a long time. So that isn't something to hold our breath. But there are a few other things that makes it somewhat helpful. It appears that there are the President has been, well, not just the president, most government leader or most countries are really encouraging the private sector to get involved. And I think at least in the US, there are about 35 companies and academic institutions that are racing to create a vaccine, racing to see if there's some sort of treatment. So we know that there are studies being done on animals where they're looking at antibodies. So there's a lot of really exciting stuff. Now, some of the things that are going on, very hopeful is that some countries are using a drug. I believe it's by Gilead that was initially made for Ebola called Remdesivir. And they're combining that with a very old drug called hydroxychloroquine, which is called Plaquenil.
Plaquenil yeah.
Yeah. And they're seeing some success which is awesome. In fact, University of Minnesota is doing the first trial where they're going to do prophylactic hydroxychloroquine, called plaquenil versus placebo, and people that have had passive exposure. So that's another exciting thing. So if we can get people on this earlier, we may be able to take COVID survivors COVID19 survivors and spin down their answers. antibodies and give antibodies to other people so that you can do that they're doing that right now with macaque monkeys. I saw that that was going on. But all of this, the reason why that that's hopeful is because we need to buy time. And the only way to buy time is to you have to have this social isolation. I don't want to use the word social isolation. And we're going to get into that as the next part of this. Because what you need is the social or you need the physical quarantining. We know that social isolation, now I'm going to use that in a negative way, can also lead to, we've done we've talked about this on the gut check project that loneliness can be as deadly as smoking. And that's why I want to make sure that we end this on kind of an up note, and we know that social isolation can actually lead to inflammation. So we went through the science of it. We talked about the epidemiology. We talked about some of the doom and gloom we talked about some of the new things coming. I want to now discuss the fact that you and I are self quarantined. And as much as we can as healthcare workers, we cannot be completely self quarantined. I've been working in the hospital all week, tried to get in I've got I mean, I've, I, I've made sure that I've got alcohol wipes on me so that I can wipe down my phone I make sure that I've got I'm not hoarding, I'm not hoarding. I'll go to the hospital and say, give me a few alcohol wipes and give me a some some bleach things. I'm working really hard to not put the phone to my face and trying to do Bluetooth thing so I can talk that's another really important thing. We know that the everybody's talking about social isolation, but your phone may be a vector because we know that the virus can live from 72 to 96 hours on steel and plastic. It appears to not survive very well on porous material, like cardboard. And they can live in the air for up to three hours. So, you think you wash your hands and everything and then you put your phone down on a on a metal table. And then you pick it up, put your hand on it, put it right to your face, that's just like shaking someone's hand and slapping your face. So keep that in mind. Our phones are a vector of vector being something that can carry this,
You know what's kind of interesting is that self quarantine allows you to let your guard down if you are in your same environment all the time with your same immediate family etc. You really can get to the point where you've been around the same people so really self quarantine with your home is going to allow you to not to overthink that kind of stuff so that whenever you leave, you become vigilant in the period of time that you run out to the to the grocery stores. Don't feel like that, just simply being you that you have to completely change and I've got to rinse my hands every three minutes before I go this direction. No, limit your exposure to the outside world. And that's when you would be on the most heightened alert. And it was interesting. I was listening to a radio show yesterday. And my wife and I were laughing because he was talking about how whenever he had to run to the grocery store, he found himself having to go to the bathroom. And I thought this was very keen. We've always been taught how to use the bathroom to wash your hands. But he said, as I walked into the bathroom, I realized before I touch the button on my jeans, wash my hands smarter and do my own pants because I'm going home with these pants. And so it's that kind of level of breakdown. And he even admitted had he not been practicing his own quarantine And then on the high end alert, he just would have been doing the same routine that he had been doing all along. So.
That's a that's a really good point. We're gonna...I want to get into this but I want to play this because my friend, my childhood friend Brian Abood, it's his birthday today. So we're going to do a virtual birthday party and celebrate his birthday. She sent this to me and it's a I think it's going around social media. But basically, let's, let's hope it plays well.
Because of Corona virus, you are going to be quarantined, but you have a choice, you A. quarantine with your wife and child, or B eaten.
She didn't allow me in so I thought it was kind of funny. So she was saying that that's pretty much.
Pretty much all there is to it.
And I'm sure he was implying that Brian said that but that makes sense. Wash your hands before you touch your your jeans. So alright, so we're gonna end on a happy note. So I was listening to some other podcasts and I was reading the Washington Post article. And the the main weapon to combat this disease is social distancing. But that doesn't mean that we have to have social isolation. This is where I want to engage with everybody that listens to this, so that we can come up with ideas to try and make it so that you're not socially isolated. Because, you know, we...on social media, we see all these negative things all the time. But the reality is the majority of people, most of us are compassionate people. There's something called a carnival of compassion when there is a tragic event. You see it people after a hurricane people come out for volunteers, they want to help their neighbor, they want to help people they don't know. Carnival compassion, generosity feeds, with, you know, feeding kids and things like that. Most of us really feel that and so, the paradox when there's a tragedy is that we ultimately want to help and we have this impulse to be near somebody and hug them and say, you know, I want to help you, but that is exactly what we cannot do. So this, the other thing is, is that when we are in this social isolation there are people that may have some long term stigma from this social isolation like psychological fallout, so to speak. So there, like I said, there's studies showing that you can have increased inflammation, we know increased inflammation, you can have increased brain inflammation, which can lead to anxiety and depression and things like that. So I think here on the Gut Check Project, we want to end with trying to figure out a way that we don't have to make quarantine lonely, if you know what I mean.
I do, I do know that I've got I've got a couple ideas that I haven't even told you about already.
Well, I want to hear him here. I'll just finish up on kind of the science that I was looking at. People are people that are most physically susceptible to COVID19 or to SARS CoV2 are the same people that are most susceptible to loneliness. And so it's that double edged sword. So I purposfully you know, I called my mom today she's 78. And I was like, are you quarantine are you doing that? And she'd said, it's all these other things. So, you know, this is the thing that we all have in common now we all have this in common with everybody around the world. Don't get into this idea of panic scrolling through social media and overwhelming yourself, we need to intentionally interact. So I told you that today, I'm going to have a virtual birthday party. So that's how I'm going to intentionally interact. So I'm going to make sure that we that me and my friends stay connected. It's his birthday. Let's do this. I've got a green screen that will I don't want to take down my brick wall. That thing's I just had that thing put up a few months ago. But I'm gonna do a green screen, maybe put a little club back there, you know, and we can pretend like we're doing bottle service in Vegas or something. But anyways, that's kind of that's kind of what I want to do. And I want to see if our community can help us figure out how we can intentionally interact. What was your idea?
Two things. One, you and I are communicating through zoom. So zoom.us, they're not paying us a penny. But if you ever just want to connect with a neighbor or get a bunch of different people on, it's free. If you want to have a conversation, I think up to what, 10 minutes or 15 minutes.
40 minutes on the free account.
Yeah, so 40 minutes, you can just invite whoever you want.
Limited limited number of invites is the only thing about that. So I think you just have a few here we've got our business account. So we can this is what I'm going to do when I host my birthday party with Brian here shortly that we're going to, you know, invite however many people you want. So
The other thing is is and I just discovered it today. So I'm going to place a couple of orders through Amazon to get a couple of small things that I'm missing but I'm a musician and a want to link up with some other guys. It'd be fun to jam with and we can't go to each other's home but there's a service that also isn't paying us a penny. It's called jamkazam.com. If you're a musician, you can actually link up and it allows you to real time jam and play music with people as long as you all have a good hard wired connection so I can't wait to get the stuff that I need to plug into the computer and and do that. So find ways to make community happen and in fact did you happen to see in Italy there were some people that a week and a half ago they're in their village, they were standing out on the balconies keeping their more than six foot distance banging tambourines and seeing I mean, singing
Yeah, it brought a lot of hope, brought a lot of hope.
Absolutely.
Yeah. So we want to do so anybody that's that's listening to this, please hit us up. And certainly, any ideas if you're like, you know what we're going to host a, I want to host a virtual coffee shop thing or whatever, but book club, we can do whatever. You know, I went on a quick side note, I read, let's pr...Steven McWilliams gave me a book to read when Lucas and I were in Panama. We were Panama the country and I read a memoir book with not medical, not business, because that's the first time I've read something non medical or non business in a long time. And it was called Let's Pretend This Never Happened. And I was laughing out loud. And then him and I were talking, we were doing a business call on zoom. And he had read the book, and then suddenly him and I were joking about it. And I'm like, oh, book club, virtual book club. There's a great way to go with it.
No, that's awesome. Earlier, I was listening to Panama, by Van Halen. And that's kind of all there is to that story.
Well, you can do that on your jamkazam, you can rock out some Panama there. So it would be interesting to bring the casual. So a lot of times and you and I do this with the show, you know, we kind of stress the show a little bit. We want to make sure that everything is tight and fine tuned, but in human interaction. It's never like that the casualness of the interpersonal play. We could start doing this. As we get better at it. We can start doing this virtually just kind of sitting there and you know if I have dinner with somebody where you don't have to be talking the whole time and it just be like, you know like you would with your, with your significant other or whoever you're not always just sitting there telling the coolest story ever. You're just taking a moment taking a bite. Look, I'm going broccolis good. Yeah. What did you do here? Oh, I added.
Now that's awesome. Well, this is the first installment of COVID19 file for Gut Check Project. There's going to be plenty more to come we'll, we'll keep updating we didn't want to get out too early from the gate feeling like that we we wanted to have enough information to navigate the waters. There's been a lot out there before. I feel like that Ken and myself don't comfortable passing anything along. So let us know many of y'all have been keeping in touch. Just got three emails today from people who enjoy the fact that they could order What they could order obviously keeping your social distancing, but order or not does not matter. Let's keep the conversation Well, if you have questions that you want to know specifically or if you have a story, let us know. If it affects you directly, let us know. How are you handling it? How are you managing? So rounding out like.
Well, yeah, the only thing that I want to add that I didn't want to get into today because clearly there was a lot to cover. This is the first foundation, but like something else everybody wants to ask me, what supplements are you taking? And I'm oh, as always, let's do a little disclaimer. I am a physician but I am not your physician. And so any advice we give here is strictly just an opinion and you're not to take my advice as medical advice speak with your physician about this and whatever it is that the the the typical jargon that has to be said of this is a show this is for entertainment, but it's also for information. So whenever reach...I think very clearly your your research, my research, these are not really our opinions, these are based off of us digging through a lot of research, at least during this period on these kind of things. You and I do have very strong opinions about a lot of other things. But we're not gonna do that here. So what I would like to do is a show based on the science of what supplements have been shown to affect different viruses and things like that is it a one to one translation? Nobody knows it's too early, but there's some different things that I think we could be doing.
Definitely. Now, that'll be a great show in and of itself. And we'll back up everything that we say, with external science. It won't just be coming from, from Brown or myself for sure.
Yeah. So hey, Eric, I appreciate you taking the time to do a different format. We're on the zoom. I do. I do miss your empty chair right here. But fortunately, I have a large cutout of you that I did that I printed a big picture of your head sits right there.
That's okay. Because you're in the periphery. You can't see anything around me but my son's right here and he's trying to be really funny. Over here
You think you're funny.
I do think I'm funny.
A boxing nun.
That's what happens that's what happens away from the camera.
Well, you could go ahead and let him know that I don't find that funny at all because I grew up Catholic and I've had some nuns punch me.
That's gonna do it for the first installment of COVID files. It won't be long till we get the next one out we'll keep touch through email. If you are not a member already of the KBMD community just head up to gutcheckproject.com like and share you can sign up to have emailed information out to you. As more stuff becomes available through the weekend and into next week. We will definitely keep you abreast of all this information.
One other thing also is that we're doing I'm really ramping up my telemedicine practice. So if if you happen to live in the state of Texas right now, I think they're opening the borders but we we are doing a lot of telemedicine and so just to recap because kind of scary. The virus is real. We need to do our part, there's a lot of really good things on the horizon, we just need to buy some time on this. And the only way to do that is to do what we're doing, which is stay your distance away. It is a highly infective virus. But we're going to get through this, we're going to get through it as a country. And when we come out the other side, we're going to learn so much more on the science of everything. There's never been such a collaboration of all scientists worldwide. Just saying here, what do you got? This is what I got. I think we're going to come out so much better as a human race as we get through this.
Yeah I certainly hope so. I really do. So installment two, there is no schedule we're having Paul push this out as soon as he can get his hands on it. So we'll just keep 'em coming.
But the biggest thing is, please stay in touch with us. If you've got questions. We've got we've got access to a lot of great scientists, a lot of good literature and I want to hear, I want to see you know what I'd like to see, I'd like to see people sending us pictures or small videos of them doing social interaction during quarantine.
Yeah, send us your ideas.
Even if even if you just spend all day playing with the boxing nun.
I didn't get I did not get Mac's permission to do that but right, well, that's gonna I think that's gonna do it for this particular chapter. We'll be back in the next one we'll go through the science of keeping yourself safe with supplementation, etc. And then we'll just do another update to see where we're at.
Let's do it. Stay safe, everybody.
All right, it is now time for episode number 35. We are here at the Gut Check Project. I'm Eric Rieger with your host Dr. Ken Brown. We've got someone special here today right between us.
Well, we are in some place special.
We are.
We're not in our home base.
We aren't in the home base.
We are in a basement in Austin.
We are.
Because we heard that this special guy, Ron Klabunde, the founder of Replenish Foundation and Generosity Feeds which you and I are huge fans.
Definitely.
You took your family to go do that. We went and did that. And what he's doing is amazing. And we decided to do a mobile show here. We had the opportunity to track him down. He's busy. He's an important person.
Ron. Obviously we're going to introduce you-the founder as Replenish Foundation as well as Generosity Feeds but we came down here specifically for an event that you're hosting. Without further ado, Ron, just kick it off and then we're going to after you tell us what we're doing here today, we're going to back it up on how you even got here.
Sounds good. So tonight, we are bringing the who's who of Austin together highly curated group of 100 people. And basically we're going to party on purpose we call it POP Austin "party on purpose." Too many parties happen it's just a party, right? What if we bring some meaning to that because all of us are looking for more meaning in life. So we've got the top people in Austin coming together to party on purpose. Obviously we know when the right people are in the room magic happens.
Definitely.
Happens from a business standpoint happens interpersonally. And then there's the purpose side. So tonight, now what you guys don't even know is that you're showing up and everyone there is going to have a chance to create about 2,500 meals for local kids struggling with hunger.
And then flow in the middle of the party.
Oh, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
And then on top of that, we're working to raise $60,000 tonight to help to help feed 50,000 children across America who are struggling with hunger and empower 64,000 volunteers that we're already working with, as an ongoing force for good. So there's our purpose side: party on...
Say that one more time. So tonight, this party that we're all gonna have fun at, everybody's...
Live band...everything.
It's gonna be entrepreneurs coming together, talking, sharing ideas, but you're going to feed how many people you're going to raise how much money and this is a party on purpose. I love that.
Yeah, yeah. So there will be about 2,500 meals created tonight throughout the course of the night. And then, and then we're raising money to help feed 50,000 children in 29 states across America, and then empower our 64,000 volunteers is an ongoing force for good.
So we can't emphasize this enough here. So Ron and...Ken and I met Ron around a year ago through the Baby Bathwater network. And not long after we ran into each other you invited Ken and I to participate in the Dallas Generosity Feeds and we looked at it and we thought, have no idea what this is. And just like Ken said, I was able to get my family-his was actually out of town playing tennis. But loaded the kids up, met Ken. My wife and I we got together and we packed 11,000 meals in about an hour and 20 minutes.
That's dead on.
And it goes to it went to all those kiddos who simply correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't get meals on the weekend. They happen to be on a free lunch Monday through Friday right? But they don't have anywhere to turn for the food so kind of tell us a little bit about Generosity Feed.
So, Generosity Feeds is kind of our...it is our premier initiative. It's what gave us influence and credibility across the country. It's It's why we have 64,000 volunteers today and we've helped feed over 170,000 children across America. I mean, it's crazy what's happened in...with this deal. And I can certainly give you the backstory on how that even started at some point here but but yeah, you came to our event in Dallas, by the way, our first event in Dallas.
Oh, nice.
Oh, was it?
Yeah, our first event our first event there with you. And 11,000 meals created in less than two hours. You probably had about 300 people at that one event alone.
That was...we were packed.
So that was the thing that I was super impressed. I showed up. Everybody there showed up kind of deer in the headlights like, what do we do? And you just you have one thing in common? We're all here to help. So people are like, Hi, I'm Joe. Hi. I'm so and so. These are my kids. This is my wife. He's like, yeah, we're here to help feed some people. Everybody had the same mission. It was so cool. Because suddenly you have a purpose.
Yeah, a shared purpose.
A shared purpose. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, and the beauty of this is it's these 300 people are coming from all aspects of the city. This is the business sector coming together with the nonprofit sector coming together with the local schools. And you probably even had some, some some politicians standing in the room. It but it goes further than that. Then you have people of all ages. You have kids with you-kids as young as three, sometimes moms or dads carrying the child on their chest, right as they're creating meals. And then we've had we had a lady up in Washington State 97 years old, helping start so it's crazy, right? But then it's beyond age, then it's it's the social economic difference. Because Ken you very likely were standing next to a single mom, whose child three weeks later was going to receive the meals that you were creating.
Really?
Yeah. And you didn't know it.
Did not know I talked, everybody that was standing next to me. We formed now the beauty is Generosity Feeds does a great job of the logistics of getting the food that's there. This is how we're going to pack this how we're going to do it. It's a well run business.
Absolutely.
It's a very well run business and we're going to get into this because to have a good nonprofit...
You better have a good business.
You better have a good business.
Well and I'll even add that it's good business for businesses to be a part of and I think I've shared this with you in the past and Ken you knew it but when we went to go and be a part of Generosity Feeds and of course I'm gonna say this several times because if you're ever interested and Generosity Feeds is appearing in your neck of the woods. Gather your friends and your family and go be a part of it. You'll spend two hours helping out tons and tons of kiddos who just simply need a meal.
Having fun. Music.
Yeah, music.
Dancing.
Dancing.
It was fun!
But, I had never been to a Mod Pizza and mod pizza happens to be one of the sponsors, title sponsors of everything Generosity Feeds does. Because of their involvement and the the fun and the giveback opportunity we had, I've been to Mod Pizza now probably eight or ten times in the last year and I'd never been there before. So I connect with the the business aspect of wanting to be a part of something good. And suddenly I found a good and worthy business that actually has gluten free pizza that my wife can eat. Because so it's, there's there's lots of reciprocity, if you want to be a part of an organization that gives back so if you're, if you're a company, pay attention, Ron's who you need to hook up with if you're interested.
That's why that's why we're here. Atrantil KBS research as a company, we're here to support you. Because we are trying to heal people's guts. Yeah. And you are trying to feed people.
And keep them full.
And keep them full. And we want to be involved with a company like you. And I'm very honored that we're sitting here. I'm very honored that we have the ability to be in Austin, that we're going to be part of this. Thank you for inviting us. But I'm also honored that we work for a company that decided to do this together. So shout out to Chuck and Mike and Brandy and everybody and Anthony, everybody else on our team that said yes, go down to Austin. We're going to support that
That's right. Absolutely. So, we've talked a little bit about generosity feeds and I believe you said it's a subsidiary of the Replenish Foundation.
Correct.
But there was a Ron Klabunde long before Replenished Foundation and Generosity Feed. So, where are you from? How did you get to...?
Where my rear end is.
Yes, yes, yes.
That's where I'm from.
Oh, yeah. So Ron is hilarious with with lots of cheap jokes where his rear end is where he's from. And, but Where, where, where do you originate from? How did you get to where you are now I know that you have a history of being a pastor, etc.
So so yes, I was a pastor for 21 years. And in my own journey, as I've shared with you, I just became a little disillusioned with how local churches were talking about loving God and loving other people, and yet really weren't partnering with businesses to make a difference or really, I mean truly partnering with church, schools to make a difference or even other nonprofits they they tended to want to keep doing ministry on their terms. And I'm looking at this and I'm going, this isn't about what a church should be doing to for in a community. It's what a church should be doing with a community, based on what a community needs. Why are churches inviting people to come to them to meet their needs on the church's terms, instead of doing what I saw Jesus doing, which was going out and meeting people on their terms?
Could you say that again, you said to what a church shouldn't be doing too.
So a church church is so focused so much on doing ministry to a community in a community or for a community, that the moment we use those words, right, it's all about what it's about me and what I want to do to give, it's not about the other person. This is about with that, that it's what we get to do together.
Right.
That here's the principle behind it. Thanksgiving and Christmas, right? Your families you might be thinking, well, this Thanksgiving, Who should we who should we go serve?
Sure.
Or what nonprofit should we go serve with as a family? Right? Many families in America do this. That's a good question to start with, who are we going to serve? It's not the best question to start with. Because and here's why. That's an addition question. We are going to go serve them. That's one plus one. The better question is, who am I going to serve with?
Say that again? Who am I going to serve with.
With because, because if I want to if I want to make a difference in someone's life, then I need to be inviting you because now I get this relationship and my desire to do good begins to rub off on you. You come with me, and we together, go serve and something ignites in your heart. And now you're changed. And then you're like, you know, that just felt good. That was right. I want to live a more meaningful life, more purposeful life. We all want to do that. And so what do you turn around and do you go find another friend and you're like hey, you need to come do this with me. And so the power of the power of generosity is not found in what we do. It's found in who we do it with. It's about the relationship.
You lead by example.
Yes.
You lead by example. You're not telling people to go do things. You say, follow me. I'm going to show you we're going to do this together, and we're going to make each other better.
What he, what he's saying is not even just a theory, and I didn't get a chance to tell you this yesterday. So Ken had to leave the procedure facility yesterday earlier than I did because he had a he had an interview, and I stayed a little bit longer. We have a new center director, his name's Chris. So big shout out here to Chris. I told him while we were coming down here for the weekend, he thought it was it was an incredible opportunity. I said, Well, we'll have another Generosity Feeds event in Dallas. You may want to see it, the rest of the endo center would like to come be a part of it. He immediately said, what a great team building exercise for all of us to go down and give back to the community I mean, it bled from you encouraging us to meet your team. I just happened to mention it without any prompting from you. And now...
Because it was just lift.
Yeah, I think the center's gonna have next time
That's a great idea a company like Digestive Health Associates of Texas and AMSURG these companies that we're affiliated with.
Yep.
We've got KBS doing it now we can just keep working our way up to the bigger and bigger companies that we have access to.
Yeah.
To help out.
That's right that's it's pretty powerful message to to be able to go and serve with versus you're just going to go and serve.
Yeah, well even take it take it to the business level now. Sure. Think about what's happened in business over the last number of years. We had Tom's come up with what the one for one model right. And it's it's all about a transaction you buy this we'll give this and that's as far as it ever goes with the customer. And then you have the companies that as you just said, this is a great team building opportunity. Let's bring our employees in Salesforce rocks it out with empowering their employees to go serve in the local community and the things that they're passionate about. But where's the where's the model? Where now as a company, you can invite your customers to come serve with you. And you're not just there, they already love your product right there. They're buying from you because they love your product. But what if you're inviting them now into your value system? And you build a relationship with them around your value system of giving back of doing good as a company becoming a force for good. The moment you do that, you turn customers into raving fans of your brand.
Sure.
That's the power of this. It's the power of with.
Yeah.
The power of with.
And the interesting thing about that is that it cannot be faked.
No, no.
You, you either live it you say look, we're gonna we would love our customers. I would love everybody who's ever bought Atrantil to be part of something like this. But I want you to do it because you just want to do it. I don't want to do it for that you're not going to gain anything other than you're going to be part of a community you're going to serve, you're going to find purpose, where we want to be one of those companies that actually helps with something like that. You can't fake it.
No, but you're inspiring something in people that's beyond a product.
Definitely.
We were talking earlier that there was a study when you stole the car earlier. We're...a study came out that millennials prefer to purchase from a company that they feel is doing good for the for their community for the world, whatever, because it's a very jaded society now we realize that there's just a lot of for profit things we're going to get into this because a nonprofit for profit the only way you're going to be successful is actually making a profit one way or the other.
Was it Hollis or somebody else at Baby Bathwater that one time was talking about the best way for someone to have a good good experience with you and may I can't remember if it was Hollis or not but they essentially said your customers are always looking for the community net positive. Now I can't remember exactly who wasn't said that at the last meeting but they were talking about if I make this purchase then I know I'm getting this product. But what if I'm supporting a company that's also either helping the environment or helping my fellow man they're looking for the net positive with their interaction with the company because if I buy a pencil over here from let's say a name of a store but it's all about the transaction well it's it's only as cold as the money went here and I got...walked away with a pencil but maybe if I spent I don't know two or three cents more over here and they encouraged me to do one more thing in my community that brought somebody else in or made a piece of plastic.
Man, I love where you're going with this it never even occurred to me that part of our follow up post purchase email should be something charitable like this. Yes, we should sit there and say not not now that you purchase this get on cuz you know it's business. It's post purchase email hope you enjoyed it we want to turn you into that promoter.
You want to subscribe?
Yeah do you want but but everybody's doing that. I want to do this and we're going to do this with KBMD and KBS yeah say thank you for purchasing this hey we teamed up with Ron Klabunde who has opened this thing if you are so inclined go look at it one time one email no more follow up though if then funnels this. No, just check it out. I like it you should check it out.
So this concept of wanting to do things with lead you to basically change the way that you handled your approach to being a pastor.
Correct.
And then so when it when are you getting to the point where Replenish Foundation and Generosity Feeds and the other companies that are enveloped within begin to form on the horizon? How did that all come about?
So I'll bring us back to the beginning.
Okay.
My wife and I were living in northern Virginia and this is pertinent to the story and that we were living in the wealthiest county in America.
Okay.
Okay
Is this outside of DC?
This is outside of Washington DC, okay. And so we wanted we we realized that people in Washington DC wanted to serve. They wanted to teach even their children the values of generosity and service, and all comes back to this. No one wants their kids growing up being an asshole. No one. And so we figured, but here's the problem. The problem is, it takes time to find a good nonprofit. It's even harder to find a good nonprofit that will let children serve because of insurance liabilities. So that's a huge thing.
Never thought about that.
Barrier entry point for families serving together. So what we did is we decided, well, let's create something that has a low entry level. Let's partner with the local school because the local school already has more influence than any other organization in the community.
Sure.
So This school is promoting it, people are going to come. So now I don't have any marketing overhead. Yay. And so then we go that we went to local businesses and we said listen, the local school we're doing this event with them. And in the wealthiest county in America catch this. There were 12,500 children struggling with hunger, the wealthiest county in America. 12,500 children struggling but the hunger back in the day. So we looked at this and we went, business leaders listen, why don't you come with us on this but also bring your employees with you as a team building opportunity. Let's just do this as a community wide and collaborative. It's a school it's the businesses, nonprofit sector, a church here or there.
Can I slow you down?
Please.
Because I love and we've we've talked about this. I love how people end up where they get there. And clearly you saw the need.
Right.
I want to know even before that when you're sitting with your wife and you guys had the AHA moment you went, hey, maybe we should consider doing something like this. Because it makes total sense that you know that all these kids need to eat. It's it's those, it's those moments that build that can change the trajectory of a life.
And did mine. Absolutely. We were we were, we were innovating ways to create easy entry levels for people to serve. So we tried a number of things before we got to Generosity Feeds. And we were sending kids we were doing food collection before and sending kids that who weren't going to eat over the weekend. We were sending them home with 20 pound backpacks of food. Now imagine imagine a six year old trying to get a 20 pound backpack it doesn't work right so we made some horrible mistakes in the journey, horrible mistakes. And eventually we innovated to this to this idea and and we mobilize 600 people. Event one.
Wow.
Wow.
600 people showed up to create 40,000 meals in less than two hours.
You and your wife plan this.
Yes.
That is so cool. The logistics of that is so cool.
Just the supply alone.
Yeah.
To have that.
Yeah.
That's pretty incredible.
Now you see the community now is coming around this idea because it's an easy entry point who can't show up for two hours at the local high school to help create food for kids in that school and that school district.
Yeah.
Who would go hungry otherwise on the weekend?
Now your experience in the church did did you kind of already know or at least somewhat predict that because it going through the Generosity Feeds event, and just like Kim described it, it was lots of instant team building with the people that were there.
Yes.
Did you kind of already know looking for your range in this? Yes. And I know there's there's wisdom in there yea.
There's wisdom that I gleaned sure the years and there's there's a reason that every packaging station which you were both at is between 12 to 15 people There's a reason for that because we're seeking to create community. You can't create community with 600 people in one room. But if I take 600 people and I break them down into teams of 12 to 15 they're going to naturally build relationships with each other and that's what I want. I want everyone leaving with a new friend that shares the value of generosity and service.
And the other thing which I thought was really cool at least when we did it was this fun competition.
Yes. Yes.
They're like yeah, this tables crushing it here I'm like, Come on guys, we're not gonna let them win, we have to do this. It's it's it's the human nature.
That's right.
Everybody was really excited as each one we would pack the boxes I can't remember how many food packs went into each box but regard...
25
Okay, so you get to 25 and then basically your your tables excited because we'll we've we've sealed another one. But of course it's it's a victory for the kiddos who are gonna end up getting it in the end.
So as a gastroenterologist the other thing that I was really pleased with...
Yes.
You guys chose a sustainable food source you had a good protein fat carbohydrate ratio. So you're not like putting Fritos in a bag and saying go home.
No! Um. Here's where that came from. Um, in our family we eat as all natural and holistic and organic as we can.
Nice.
And part of that is my wife has autoimmune issues. I don't I don't think I've shared that before. And so she's also gluten intolerant and thyroid issues and before I give the whole medical thing that's going on with her, right? Well, here's what my wife said to me early on. She said there is no way that we are feeding millions of children in America what we're not willing to feed are own children.
Good for her.
So cool. That is so cool.
That's the standard. And so everything we did was go out and find the healthiest we created the product but create the healthiest product we could that was lightweight.
Sure.
That could that a six year old kid carry home you know? Yeah, that was lightweight that could be created by the masses that could be a mobile manufacturing plant that would create community bring all the aspects of community together and could be a dance party when we wanted it to be.
That's an absolute brilliant idea. Yeah, I mean, talk about a win win win. You around very clearly are not only a very generous person, very altruistic person, but pretty damn smart.
Yeah.
Because that is cool. You're a good businessman.
Yeah. You could take you could take the letters, PDS sense PDGs already been taken.
Yeah, yeah.
That's right.
Well, it was also it's not just infectious for the the event that we went to in Dallas
We're in coronavirus season, we don't use the word infectious.
Oh, sorry. Let me let me shed some light no shedding disease. No but I think two weeks before we did our event Lavich and Hollis had participate in the one was in Colorado and a very similar experience so y'all are obviously replicating all of the good parts building upon and improving.
Absolutely.
I'm looking forward to the to the next event we'll obviously be there but I don't want to steal the thunder we'll get to that in a moment to Generosity Feeds how people can look it up but so now you've you've gotten to the point of my wife and I have decided that we want to do something different like she's thrown down a great edict: we want to feed kids the same things that we would eat your piece it together. The first event had 600 volunteers you had 40,000 meals made. Now what?
Within two weeks, I started getting phone calls from community leaders around the country going we heard what you're doing in northern Virginia. We need your help, will you come?
Wow.
And so they
same state?
I mean, oh, no. Across the country, were calling me
Oh, across the country. Sorry. They were...
How did they find out about it?
I'm well networked. Okay, so because of just because of my background I used to...
You're an Instagram model.
You just got my mouth to close!
So not that kind of networking, okay.
No, um I used to and now I'm back at doing keynotes around the countries I teach leadership development around the country and so because of my earlier years of doing keynotes I'm just I'm well networked into the business sector and into the even into the kind of the faith sector of our culture. So people know...people are watching what I'm doing. They they saw, they knew and so within one year of that event, we were coast to coast.
Holy.
That's great.
And that was the ah-ha moment-going back to your previous question. When was that kind of that that wake up moment?
Yeah.
When we were When we did our first event in Eugene, Oregon, as far as you can get away from DC. And it flew with all the same outcomes as we had in Washington, DC, my wife and I looked at each other and went, holy shit. We just started a national nonprofit that can go to any community in America.
Yeah.
And then it was just a matter of leading that to growth.
Sure.
Because growth doesn't just happen, you have to invest in grwoth, and so we began investing in the growth of the company. The other moment that was really big for us, is obviously it takes capital. It doesn't matter what we're starting in life, for profit, for purpose, nonprofit, it takes capital. I remember walking in my living room. And I looked at my wife and I said, listen, I need to write a $15,000 check to the foundation, so that this thing has a chance at living. Can I write the check? And I said, by the way, I think I'll have it I think we can pay ourselves back in eight weeks again. Keep in mind, I was a pastor. I was getting paid almost nothing. So 15,000 for me, you're going to know in a moment how close that was to my end.
Wow.
She says, yes. 10 weeks later, I walk back in the living room and I go, honey, I haven't been able to pay us back on that $15,000. I need to write the last $15,000 we have to our name. Can I do it? And my wife goes, "write the check."
Holy cow. So just to clarify. Nonprofit, you took all your savings.
Dumped it.
Dumped it in there.
Yeah.
With the mission of saying we know we're onto something.
Yes.
But we're losing money right now.
Yes.
That's guts.
Well, it was.
Holy cow.
It was this vision. It was the it this is a painful point to to be honest with you is that I had the we had the vision for feeding millions of kids who across America struggling with hunger but I was writing the last check not knowing if I'd feed my own.
Oh.
Goodness gracious.
Oh my goodness.
That's the level of commitment.
That's the line.
Dude. That is coolest thing I think I've ever heard.
Yeah.
I'm willing to take food out of my kids' mouths knowing that if I do this right, I can feed millions.
Yes.
And your kids did you sit and tell them that?
Oh, they know all this. They're in the game with us.
That's so cool. So cool.
They knew.
I know that you and I have a son, sons that are the same age. So my my youngest is 16 and I think yours is 16
16, yeah.
And then how many other kiddos you got?
18 year old girl.
Oh, that's what I have also.
And a 15 year old girl.
Okay, nice. I've got 18 year old son 16 year old son. You are 15...
15 and 13. A 15 year old boy and a 13 year old girl.
Nice.
They they eat a lot. Both of them. If I sat with them and said I'm not gonna feed you for a week because I'm going to try and feed a million kids...actually I take this back, actually my kids, both Lucas and Carla are amazing kids, they will probably look at me and be like, you need to feed a million kids.
Sure.
We'll go forage. There's and that's that's, that says a ton about you that you went out on that kind of limb. And man, I'm so glad that you did. Because we saw the effect.
Right.
That you're you're doing and we only saw it on the local level. You see it all these other places we're going to, we're going to explode it tonight at this Party on Purpose.
Gonna be amazing tonight.
So how long ago was Eugene, Oregon's first event?
That was eight and a half years ago.
Wow.
So now you hit Eugene, Oregon, you say to your wife, we are definitely in something that we can replicate in city to city.
Yes.
You're going to take this nonprofit worldwide. It's going to grow we talked about you need capital.
Right.
Where does Replenish Foundation Generosity Feeds began to take shape?
So, we had some very wise councillors, advisors on the front end. So when we were even looking at this first event with 600 people, they said you need to start a nonprofit that is a um umbrella organization so that you can create an ecosystem of nonprofits underneath it. Because I don't want to lead six initiatives that all have their own 501C3, that's six different boards. It's too much management. It's not efficient. So far better off creating one nonprofit that can house various initiatives. So Generosity Feeds is a DBA of the Replenish Foundation. And that allows us now to be creating additional initiatives that all play off of each other.
Sure.
And are now working collectively to establish generosity as the new gold standard in America. That's what we're after.
I know that Generosity Feeds is one of your biggest DBAs under the Replenish Foundation. What what DBAs do you have?
Yea, the other one is Generosity Serves. So as of today, we have 64,000 volunteers across America. Remarkable number. Here's what's happening at events now. Oh, and we also partner with other nonprofits.
Oh.
So, so when we go into a community and all these meals are made, we don't do distribution. We bring in other nonprofits, we promote them at our event.
Nice.
And then we give them the food. So here's what's happening. These nonprofits are now coming to us going, you got 400 people from our community to show up at your event and we can't get 40.
Okay.
Would you be willing to mobilize your local volunteers to serve with our organization? Well, of course, I am.
Sure
This is about doing good. This is about becoming a force for good. This isn't about competition in the nonprofit sector. This is about helping these other nonprofits soar.
Right.
So Generosity Serves is a platform now where with our nonprofit partners across the country we can go into our database and begin to mobilize these people to serve with these other nonprofits in the rhythm that works for their family.
Oh, wow. You haven't...you haven't you have built an army of generous people.
Yes. That's where we're that's why we're seeing that we're seeking to change culture. Because we know if we can change the dial of generosity in America, even just three notches, three degrees from our present trajectory. Together, we can begin to solve every social issue that exists.
I believe the timing is perfect. Also, I think I think the pendulum is swinging back away from that social media obsession and people are going I am done. I am unplugging. I want to be with somebody I want to talk I want and I think it's an incredible timing. I think that people are seeking this which is why they, you've been able to do this. Well, you've been able to do it because you're very organized and you did it the proper way. And you're very charismatic and there's a lot of reasons why your particular thing, but that's the platform that other people can go with. You know, we're doing KBMD is sponsoring Linda's Nebraska ataxia for the for the fourth year in a row. And I was just thinking the whole time when you said we team up with other nonprofits, she does, she is my med school roommate, been friends with her forever and she developed a type of ataxia. And meaning that she, it's, it's, it's like Lou Gehrig's disease, but she has the resources and she found a physical therapist that analyzed her and was able to put a vest on her with weights. And it actually allows her to walk without the vest. She can't walk.
Oh my goodness.
Yeah, so then so she decided on her own dime to do a Nebraska Ataxia foundation and all they do is buy them and given to people and there's just video of video of people in wheelchairs and they show up and give them a vest because that technology exists. Yeah, it's like this. There's kids not eating on the weekend. You can feed them and you can eat them good food and they're gonna they're gonna become great members of society. It's just that easy. It isn't like you're going and given some weird obscure drug. It's like oh my gosh and so like I'm just we need to get you and Linda hooked up with that or she needs that you have any events in Omaha Nebraska?
Not right now.
We'll set that on the through her but she's got a big network and we can we can do that.
That's right. We did. I don't know what podcast that was but he came on our podcast and he taught Eric and I about toxic charity, how you can cause more damage, trying to do good by throwing...
You know, it's so cool as we've had a handful of different charitable folks drop in on the gut check project and one of them that always comes to mind right off the top is another BBW guy and that's Robo Hendrickson with a I mean, he truly is...in but the way that he describes the passion behind why he does what he does transforming communities is very similar to what you're talking about. But even more to the point the way that it's not what you would consider what Robo termed was toxic charity.
Throwing money...the fact that you y'all have yet another subsidiary, just simply called Generosity Serves shows that you're, you're enabling a community to feel comfortable and more community by serving together find and you even said it yourself finding ways to make it fit your schedule. And you're doing it without competition between people who are trying to do well, it's like, let's lift each other together. In my own small town. I told this to Ken we there's a man by the name of Ricky and he works through a church but he invites the entire community at least one Saturday a month to simply come and staff tables where we hand out food. That's all that we do. A lot of the different food producers in the North Texas, they donate it, they know there's going to be a big line. People come from all over. But regardless, they get shopping carts. They come out there in the parking lot. We load them up, and then they've got plenty of food for a couple of weeks. It's great. And it's giving and it's things like what you're talking about all we've ever needed as volunteers to help make it happen.
So, side note, but this is a shout out and mad props to every single parent out there. Dad or mom Loy and Lucas spent two weeks in Mexico touring doing tennis. I had to try and figure out what to do with my daughter. Like pick her up from school, get her to her events, cook dinner for her. I want to say it was the two most stressful weeks I've had in my entire life because I'm trying to work. Now. I'm the boss. I started thinking, Wait a minute, I'm the boss and I do okay, financially. What happens and I started looking around my office I'm like, I have a lot of single moms working for me.
Oh, yeah.
Oh my gosh, I have a lot of single moms that are going to get fired when they show up late again. And there's, and they're they and I just I had this. Am I that big of a jerk that I have not until I lived it...
Yeah.
That's frickin hard. Yeah. And then when you don't have enough money to give your kid food on the weekend, the only food they're eating is at school. So then it's insult to injury where you're you're trying your best.
Yes, they are.
You want to give your kid food. And then something like this, where they just come home with a backpack and the food's already there. No questions asked. Nothing being said and it's healthy.
You know what makes that story even better, is when that kid was at that school event, help create the meal and three weeks later, they open their backpack and it's sitting there and they kept their dignity because they helped make it
Oh, yeah.
Take it to the next level.
Yeah, that's cool.
Then that's that's the epitome of not a toxic charity. Because what Robo talked about is it doesn't do me any good to go to a community because just like you he's serving with them. He's teaching them how to take care of their animals, go get an education, give back to the people learn how to grow the food mill, it's very much the same thing you've removed the stigma of someone just gave me this to I created this for me and for some other people who are in similar situations. That is a pretty incredible full circle, give back.
I didn't even think about that to the people that we were building these.
That's where that's where I said, you very likely had no idea you're standing next to a single mom. You'd have no idea because the moment we unite ourselves around shared values, nothing else matters.
You're right.
Your wealth doesn't matter when you're united around shared value.
This is...we do this, Eric puts my patients to sleep. I stick a camera in people's butts, the one thing that we see over and you may be a super rich guy, you may be this buff person, you may be old. We all have the same inner workings. We're all the same. That's what we totally forget. We're all the same. And I see that because I stick cameras and I'm like, your stomach looks like it looks like his stomach. We're all the same.
That's right.
And when we sit there and realize that if my kid was hungry, thank God, they have never had to experience that. But if we had something that I could, I mean, to be able to go and be a participant say, honey, we're going to go and we're going to pack some food and you're gonna have food for this week, but we're going to earn it. That's so cool. Non toxic charity.
That's right.
So we started off in northern Virginia.
Yes.
And then we've we've gotten to the point now where Replenish Foundation functions is a large company with a handful of charitable subsidiaries.
Yes.
Now today, you're in 29 different states with events correct?
That's correct.
So what what is Generosity Feeds is doing now? How can people that are tuning into Gut Check Project figure out where they fit in to learn how they can begin to serve with?
Yes.
In, in and around their communities with their neighbors at? What What can people do?
So let me hit the business side of this first.
Sure.
So we work we work with over 600 businesses across the country. And you it's very possible that your that our listeners today have heard of something called corporate social responsibility.
Corporate social responsibility.
It's called CSR. And this is often used by the larger companies. Now, here's the problem with CSR. It's this. Its responsibility. No one wants to do a responsibility, something responsibility is something you have to do. Right. And yet these larger companies, most companies are looking for CSR. What's our corporate social responsibility going to be? No, we're throwing Corporate Social Responsibility out the window and we're saying listen, don't do a CSR. Do CSO, corporate social opportunity. Let us help you as a business, create a philanthropic strategy that engages your product, summit a piece of your profit, whatever you want your employees and your customers, and that customer pieces a huge piece. And so one of the things that we're doing now with companies is helping them develop their their CSO, corporate social opportunity, because when a company does it right, it's going to accelerate their business. I was talking with a very large business owner in Salt Lake City this last week, and they just dumped a lot of money into a nonprofit initiative. And I said, you know, you're about to open 25 restaurants around the country. And you're going to drop about a half a million dollars on every one. I'm sorry. $500 million on every restaurant. to open it said I would imagine what...
500 million?
500 million is what typically it takes to open these larger scale restaurants okay?
Holy cow.
So 500 million. When you when you open a restaurant, are you going into that with a strategy and a plan? Yeah, well, of course they are. Anyone would. I said, over the next 10 years, you're probably going to invest 200 to $300,000 in philanthropy. Do you have a strategy for that? And she's like, oh, I get your point. Why in the world would you take $200,000 of your profit and invested in, in nonprofits without a strategy?
Right.
Like, let me help you design a strategy with your marketing team that's wrapped with your values, so that so that you're doing your philanthropy with a with a purpose. So you can see the outcomes in a way that actually accelerates your business.
I love this because what I'm hearing is that charity and giving back is not checking a box.
No, this is this is about nonprofits.
Yeah.
And for-profits working together. And here's the here's the statement, not it. The linchpin is this, for profits that have the heart of a nonprofit, need to find great nonprofits that have the mind of a business.
Say that one more time.
Okay for profits, businesses, businesses that have the the heart of a nonprofit...
Love that.
Need to find great nonprofits who have the mind of a business.
And you're allowing this so I'm like the fact that you said that this is a corporate social opportunity. You are figuring out how to do it well. You can come to a company like KBS and say you are leaving your customers in a position where they don't know that they can give back. And we all win.
Yes. And I can coach you through I can guide...and here's the beauty of this, this isn't about the foundation. Because at the end of the day, I want your company doing what you're passionate about. Not what I'm passionate about, this is about your value system. And so if these companies choose to work with us, that's great. I mean, that's going to help accelerate what we're doing. That's not the point to this. The point is, if you're aligning your profits and your values and your employees and your customers with a great nonprofit that aligns with all of that, then guess what? You're doing good. You're becoming a force for good and that's all I want. That's all I want.
Yeah.
And so that's the end game. Like, why because we're seeking to establish generosity as the new gold standard. That's not about me. That's about you.
You wrote your last $15,000 check, told your kids we're out of money. And you went from there to I'm now going to teach large corporations how to do it better. And it all revolves around generosity and you lead by example that day when you wrote that check.
Yes.
So cool. That is so so cool. I'm excited. We are leaving we are completely because we now we know everybody at KBS we're there. We all do charitable things, your donate money I do the thing that you're saying, which is you know, I, whatever, you know, I try to donate, like, even like Linda's foundation and stuff like that every year I sponsor, I'm not taking advantage of the fact that I need to spread that message because all it does is help everyone get in their lane and oh, this is where I need to drive. That's that's basically what you're telling people to do
It's the power of with.
Yes, power of with.
Now, that's a pretty powerful message all the way around. It just seems like that lots of corporate responsibility did turn into the checking of a box. We should be doing this. So let's be sure that we do it. And Carol, you're over there. Did we do that thing? Did we send the check did but there's there's no personality behind that there's no touch in there, you're really not seeing it.
Well let's take it one step further as a pastor tithing. I grew up Catholic, right 10% Where does it go? Who cares? I don't know. I'm just giving it. It's right. Right.
It's what they said we had to do.
That's the world I was in too.
Now, and it...suddenly just enters a world of obligation. What what was probably born as a as a good purpose. It's lost. Its lost touch. It's lost feel. There's no texture to it. It's just this this, this money is spoken for, and it's gone.
So now I'm super intrigued as a business owner. I come to you, Ron. And I say I have a I have a business. We're growing. I want to get my company in this corporate social opportunity. What would be the first thing that you would do? What would what would you do with me?
So the first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to I'm going to send you an assessment. I'm going to have you assess your own company as to where you're at. And that's going to do two things. Number one, that's going to help you understand wait a minute, we're not all bad. That's the first thing it's gonna do.
I talked to I talked to Tim and Patrick about this that like we're doing the whole we've all read the book Traction.
Yes.
And so you know, you do like that, you know, you start that you start thinking everybody's bad. You're like, this is your this is your score. Eric, you're a two this week. You are a two.
No, so you're gonna get some good news, right? Yeah, but you're also going to evaluate where you want to be when it comes to CSO corporate social opportunity. And then I'm going to walk you through a process of blueprint of helping you close that gap. It's that simple, and in a company your size. Four hours, you will walk away with a blueprint of going, oh my God, is it really that easy? And it is. And so if this is not rocket science, I don't need to consult your company for three months. Let's just sit down, I'll put you through the assessment. We're going to walk you them through our blueprint that aligns your social, your social good with your value system, your product and some of your profit, and boom, you walk out the door going, oh my god, here's who we can partner with. and here's how we can tie our business and our customers into it and everyone wins.
We have when we launched our product, we know consistently because our research when we did the clinical trials, we know that four out of five people are going to get better, like really get better. Sure. And we when we launched we either had one star on Amazon or we had five which is not a placebo. Either we worked or we didn't.
Yes.
And fortunately we are four stars and close to 1000 reviews. Every single one of those people that we helped, we can say if we made you feel better, I'm going to ask a favor of you now. And then we do your process.
Yes.
Because you have somebody that Yeah, I do feel better. You changed my life I want you to pay it forward and be with and we can make a difference and grow this network. That's so cool. Corporate Social opportunity. Did you coin that term?
Yes.
That's awesome.
Only because CSO doesn't it doesn't work. It's it again. It's a check a box. It's it's not the heart.
Right.
And we're we're seeking to pull out of people, the values that are in them, the values in there. It's just letting them come to the surface and begin living.
Isn't that so interesting? Because you can see how many people want to have that pulled out of them. Because we think that everybody's own superficial stuff, but the reality is, when we went and when we did Generosity Feeds, that was an enthusiastic, it's not like...
From the moment we walked in.
Oh my gosh, everybody the energy was amazing. Yeah, people want to get off of this superficial thing. They want to be part of something. And if they know that they can, it just comes to them. I mean, I'm the same way. I mean, I was so excited. I only found out about it because Eric said, hey, one of our Baby Bathwater people does this. I'm like, Okay, what are we doing? I was on call that weekend and everything. And I was like, Okay, I had no idea. Yeah, loved it had fun. And I'm somebody that is perfectly willing to give back and try and help out wherever but it doesn't. Since it's not being fed to me. I'm busy. I forget. Now, if we can sit there and develop some sort of process where and we can get other companies, like some of the other companies that we work with,
You know, it's kind of interesting is it KBMD Health, but also just in the direct patient contact that we have. We talk about diet, we talk about exercise, we talk about different things that people do to improve their own health. And since I was a kid, I've heard that many times just simply giving of yourself will reward you even more than than whatever, but you hear it. You don't always get a blueprint on how do I effectively give back and it sounds to me like probably what you're really doing is, it may sound elementary, but you're just helping people rediscover the new way to find their purpose and then suddenly you begin to feel better. Suddenly depression issues aren't nearly as bad as they used to be. Because if you think about a gym, do you think gyms existed back in the 1800s? Could you imagine in the 1800s telling someone, we're going to have this building, and there's going to be metal bars, and we're going to put weight on them. And we're going to lift them, and we're going to put things over our heads. And we're going to do some stuff like this, and we're going to do some stuff like this. You're gonna look great, you're gonna feel good, and some cowboy would have shot you between the eyes and go that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.
Have you ever heard that whole Jim Gaffigan set where he's just like, what in the world? How do people develop a Stairmaster? Hey, I got an idea. You know, people love walking up stairs. Let's make one that's never ending.
But, but people, they they've gone to do that because that level of exercise for whatever it is, is keeping them in shape and helping them feel better. It just seems like what you you're doing is reintroducing people back to what they've become this...they became disconnected from your core. It's why people do yoga. It's why people do meditation it's to return to who they are. This is not that different.
I have an idea for you. I think you should make the food much heavier like 20 pounds. Put it on the kids Yeah, give him a little workout.
And then let 'em do squats.
Do Memorial Day Murph For Memorial Day you go to Generosity Feeds get your 20 pound pack. Go do some air squats.
Oh my goodness.
That That is so cool. I'm just I'm I'm loving the idea that we could sit there and send a post purchase email sequence that just says hey, it's time to give back time to give back if you got better great if you didn't get your money back because we have 100% money back guarantee. Yeah, you didn't get better. Here's your money back if you got better now you need to pay for it.
But not you go give back. Give back with us.
With us. relationship. Everything's relationship.
Let us know how you're giving back also, I mean, just
Whatever it takes.
But it's not you know, I mean, what I like what you're doing is you go, I'm a company your size, I need four hours, I've got the process, you very clearly are a very detail oriented person. You think through all these things, you've got 64,000 soldiers, that got your back right now. That's what we would need. I mean I want you to come to me and be like, here's what you're gonna do. That's what I love about traction. It's and you can do this, this, this and this. Now for your charity, you're going to do this, this, this and this, not write one check every Sunday.
Yeah. And walk or interplays with what you are doing from the book Traction. Because again, when we talk about our, our body and our health, it we're holistic beings, everything in our place, right? Same thing in it, same thing in business. What you do in the philanthropic side of your business needs to completely interplay with what you do in the profit side of your business. Let them intertwined they're not two different silos, and that's what we're bringing together.
Yeah, man I love what you're doing I absolutely love what you're doing and I just I like hearing the story how I built this because people look at this they're like oh yeah he's charismatic guy, he's a coach whatever know you wrote a check with the last money in your bank and you went...
It hurts.
Yeah, just just to reiterate, in case you're joining us late in the podcast and you're just joining in because somebody else...
If you're joining us late just rewind and start over cuz it's all really good.
Generosity Feeds does not handout, cheap meals and sweet tarts. This is legitimate food for kiddos that don't have an opportunity to eat and don't have an opportunity to get a good meal on the weekends and you've stepped in and you've allowed people into your vision to serve in a serving with you, which I think is awesome.
You know what I really like also having kids our age, Eric made it a point to make sure that it was a family involvement. Gage brought his girlfriend. Yeah, it was it was we're going to do this. I'm going to lead by example. I'm gonna put the hairnet on. I'm gonna put the gloves on. Yeah, you're gonna see your dad do it first. And then follow my lead. So it's the same thing you lead by example. You teach others to do that they teach others to do that now we're all with it.
And the car ride home was was filled with smiles. It was rainy that day. Yeah. It was rained hard that day. But I mean, everybody was like, man, it felt great.
Yeah. And then is the conversations as a parent, reinforcing the experience.
Sure.
That's the power. Definitely no curriculum needed.
How do people find you Ron? How do people help out?
Easy. Email me at ron@replenishfoundation.org that easy, different ways to help out. Look for an event in your area. That's one If we're not there yet, that's fine.
How do they find that? Is that on Generosity Feeds?
Go to generosityfeeds.org.
org, o.r.g.
Yep, generosityfeeds.org go to locations, you'll see what's coming in the next usually four months. And in we're already booking 18 months from now. Whoa, it's crazy. So that's but that leads to part two. If you're if you lead a business that is wanting to do good, or you're a community leader, have it, call us we'll come to an event with you, like will coach you on how to mobilize your entire community and work with you and support you in this because it's all about the width. So break. Let's do this in your community. Let's do this together. So that's the other pieces go to generosityfeeds.org and just contact us and we'll, we'll help get this going in your community.
Do you hear that Linda? Nebraska Ataxia, hit him up. Omaha is gonna be the next place to do a Generosity Feeds spot. And then we're going to team up two charities that I support.
29 states covered right now, which means there's 21 left just in the US alone. So knowing that if I were a corporate person who wanted to be a corporate partner, and I know that we said that you don't just want to write a check, but you do need supplies.
We do well, and we have national level funders, that are helping advance the mission. So you have we have local people who support the local events. And then we have the national partners, which you guys are, that are helping mobilize us into new communities across America that are helping us empower 64,000 volunteers, because the idea needs to be needs to spread.
I just thought about something here. So if I'm a I'm not a I don't know how to say this in the right way. But if I'm a a family, yes, that is a tight on budget, right. And it's just easier to spend $8 at McDonald's to feed the family, is there I just don't know how to say this. But I would almost like to tell my patients for instance. Because I hear this from my patients all the time. It's very hard for me to shop at Whole Foods or whatever, or it's just easier that I can get McDonalds and you know, and I try and get them off of that. Is there a price point? Can anybody be part of this? Can anybody use eat it? I mean, basically, I would I would tell my I would tell my patients, go to Generosity Feeds, pack your own bag, make sure you eat this on the weekends and don't eat that crap that you find cheap.
At our events when people come to at the end of all of our events. Here's what we say if you are here today, and you need food, just come see us privately. Because you're going to walk away with food. So it's that simple. Yes. Is the food already designated to the nonprofits that are going to distribute it? Yes. That doesn't matter. Someone when someone comes to an event needs food. Just come talk to one of our team members. We're going to hand you the food that you just created. Walk away with it.
So DHAT my company. We need to do something with this also as a gastroenterology as the gastroenterologists for all ages that are the premier gastroenterology group in the country, we need to lead by example, we need to do stuff like this.
Definitely. I think everybody be on board too. This is another one of those things where you just delivering laser focus to a lot of people who want to serve, they just don't know how to do it, or how to do it together.
Well, sometimes it's the conventions, like Mod Pizza, as you said, is a title partner with us-national partner with us. So they do a leadership summit with all their general managers every year, guess what we do? We go in and catch this. This year they're creating 50,000 meals, they'll do it in less than one hour with 2,000 people. Like so. So we can come into these conferences and conventions and and we do this. We're working with Microsoft right now. Like, the coolest thing ever.
Who are they?
Yeah, I don't know. I think an up and coming company to buy some stock. So again, it's In those are private events where it's just that Corporation but it's like you so cool. You got this group around the country, the doctors come together. You put them on. So many companies talk about doing good. Let's just do it will bring it to you
Don't talk about doing good.
Well, just and I'm sitting there thinking we've got my company, I'm just thinking how many of these single moms that work for us that probably would be relieved that they could go home with some food. Because I found myself running out of time not cooking for Carla for those two weeks and ordering food and we ate like, well, we'd like crap per our standards chair. Um, it's, it's relative, right? I mean, it's, you know, read a lot of Thai food and whatever, you know, which I like. But um, but I wasn't cooking whole food. I wasn't doing the stuff that we normally would do.
No, I agree with that, and probably the epitome of a lot of the people that want to give back, who aren't always in the best position to give back happened to be those same people. I would never know who actually truly struggles, it is walking amongst us until sometimes they kind of hit a wall and they just like, for the last number of weeks, I've been dealing with this I'll look and I'll say I had no idea. But that same person, whomever that would happen to be, I'm certain would jump at the opportunity to help a neighbor or friend. And then of course they would have the opportunity to benefit and take something back to their kids. That would be kind of incredible.
Wow, I want to thank you so much for coming on. Thanks, Ron. I want to thank you for you lead by example. You're certainly gonna make a difference with us. We're gonna we're going to jump on board with KBS KBMD DHAT. We're remembering we're going to have the corporate social opportunity be our new motto.
Yeah. If you're only watching us on the YouTube you may have missed we are down here in Austin, Texas for what they call the Austin POP the Party on Purpose yes event where we have a handful of corporate entrepreneurs who've come down here to Austin basically to help Generosity Feeds and Replenish Foundation mobilize to more areas throughout our country feeding kiddos that just needs some good meals. So Ron, I can't thank you enough for just bringing to life an incredible vision for a lot of people who just needed it. So it's, yeah it's awesome.
I appreciate it great being on with you guys this is honestly just been a lot of fun.
Oh, good, good.
And I'm sure it has been for everyone else too.
I hope so!
Well, hopefully this will kind of spread and this is a great example of leading by example living by example. Corporate social opportunity Generosity Feeds Generosity Serves everything you have said is just makes me feel like I'm kind of a bad person and I need to do more.
That's probably going to do it for Episode Number 35 Ron Klabunde here from Replenish Foundation and Generosity Fees and Generosity Serves look him up everything in show notes of course, check us out, like and share Gut Check Project KBMDhealth.com. Dr. Brown, anything else?
Yeah, I'm going to task everybody with a personal social opportunity. Definitely like and share this particular episode, because it goes way beyond the Gut Check Project,
Send it to your boss.
That's a great.
Send it to your boss, find something that where you work or with your team. If you haven't been an entrepreneur, how can we begin to work together? This is your team building exercise. It costs you nothing, and it gives everything.
Here we go. I'm going to I'm going to share this with Loida right now, my boss, my wife.
Thank you! Tune in to Gut Check Project. We'll see you next week, don't forget we have a giveaway Dr. Brown's signature package Episode 36.
Find a “Feeds” event near you https://generosityfeeds.org
Organization Info on the Replenish Foundation https://generosityfeedsportal.org/uploads/images/prospectusreplenishfoundation_email.pdf
Eric Rieger
Alright, we're going to get down to the gut check project starting on episode 34. It's gonna be a quick one, but you're gonna love it.
Ken Brown
Yeah, we're gonna try and do this a little bit quicker because what I've gotten some feedback is when you guys get all sciency that sometimes it's it's cool to hear the fun stuff, but the reality is that the science gets a little geeky and it gets almost like a lecture. So I apologize to everyone out there if I've been some weird professor but so my only thing so let's do the personal stuff is your family good?
Eric Rieger
Family's Great! Awesome.
Ken Brown
My family's great also awesome. And that's up for the personal stuff. So like I said, I was called by a good friend, Tim, our good friend his father had...
Eric Rieger
Tim Power been on the show.
Ken Brown
Yeah, Tim power been on the show. His father had a stroke. And he messaged me and he said, Hey, man, my dad had a stroke, and they don't seem to be talking diet. They don't seem to talking supplements. He's in rehab. He's getting better. I'm doing my own stuff. I'm trying to fix this. But do you have any recommendations? And rather than just knee jerk and go, Oh, I'm going to go ahead and yeah, just do this and this and this. I started thinking about it. I went Holy cow, my hospital. Medical city Plano.
Eric Rieger
Right.
Ken Brown
Is a level one trauma center and is designated as a magnet hospital for stroke, acute stroke rehabilitation.
Eric Rieger
Okay.
Ken Brown
So they have a whole team that if you show up with a stroke, it's just like a heart attack. They're badass. Yeah, they show up with like this team of interventional neurologists, and they get in there and they do all this stuff. So I'm sitting there. My quick side note, I'm picking up my family from Mexico, because Luke was just playing tennis. You know, that was the the personal part of it that we didn't get into, but just assume it's tennis.
Eric Rieger
Assume it's basketball.
Ken Brown
Yeah. So I called. I called the stroke rehab unit. And I spoke with them with the nurse. The manager, nurse and she was so cool. She's like, She's like, hey, yeah, blah blah blah Yeah, we were our rates are this. This is the protocol. I'm like, what's a protocol for diet? We don't have one. What's protocol for supplements? We don't have one i'm like, Oh my goodness, let's look at this. So I called our secret weapon. And I started to get into it and it's a much bigger bite to chew off then we can do in this sort of quick episode. So this quick episode, I want to just focus on the endocannabinoid system and stroke. Because what we do with stroke victims is that we basically do everything wrong.
Eric Rieger
I believe it.
Ken Brown
In the hospital.
Eric Rieger
Yeah.
Ken Brown
And when I asked him, like, what is the typical diet? She's like low fat.
Eric Rieger
What's the science behind that?
Ken Brown
Exactly. And we know that the carbohydrates increase inflammation and this and that. I'm like, Well, what else and she's like you had traditionally everybody gets put on a Staten, which causes some brain inflammation, because we're chasing numbers on cholesterol. Anyways, keep listening, because we're going to end up doing another episode on we're going to develop a protocol that I hope everybody adapts, and the nurse was like, that would be amazing. nobody's talking like that. Because everybody has this hammer. I mean, we bring these people in, they have a stroke. And one of the most important things is sleep and what do we do just disrupt sleep, check vitals blood sugar, and all this other stuff. So basically, we focus up we focus on all this stuff. So I called a couple neurologists, and was like, Hey, man, what's the or Hey, woman? I don't want to be sexist here. I'm like, Hey, what are we doing here? What's going on with the you guys are crushing it. So basically they focus on the awesomeness science of clotbusters like tpas and blood thinners. And then they rush in with this incredible technology that is amazing. Where they get in and they do like cardiac clot, like the same thing that the cardiologists have been doing. That they end up just sort of extracting these clots and they just crazy stuff. It works, but then they don't think about anything else,. So here a gut check project. I feel like we check our egos at the door and we look and go, how can we do things a little bit better? I feel like that this conversation that we're having could be the beginning of something bigger. Sure. I feel like we're missing a ton of stuff. This is not to bash traditional medicine at all. This is just a glorious example of how medicine save lives. But unfortunately, if all you have is a hammer then everything's a nail. So we're going to go ahead and look at that today.
Eric Rieger
Let's do it.
Ken Brown
I'm gonna do one brief thing. Because we always do in in the news, we always do our personal lives in the news, mostly because it's a win for me. So I'm just whenever I find news that is pertinent to me, I'll talk about it. And I'll just kind of, like most people just sort of ignore the stuff that bothers you. Bottom line is a study just came out. Looking at coffee.
Eric Rieger
Oh, I love coffee.
Ken Brown
So February is Heart Month, right?
Eric Rieger
It is.
Ken Brown
So everyone talks about Heart Month, and we're strokes are almost parallel to heart. So the same vessels that can ruin your brain can ruin your heart. You're gonna die either way. Let's start fixing it.
Eric Rieger
Yeah.
Ken Brown
So a study came out this last Thursday. So just a few days ago, in a journal called PLOS biology that I follow, which always looks at like new and upcoming research, as it find it. As it turns out, we know that coffee is good in 2017. There was this big meta analysis that show that help with diabetes. And also helped with cardiovascular disease and different things like that. But we really never, we always thought it was the polyphenols. So these guys looked at this and they took mouse models. And what they showed is that the caffeine plays a role.
Eric Rieger
Nice.
Ken Brown
Yeah. In case you haven't guessed that I drink just tons of coffee.
Eric Rieger
I didn't have to guess I see it all the time.
Ken Brown
Alright, so anyways, they took mouse models, and what they showed is that when you drink four to five cups of coffee equivalent in caffeine, you actually improve the mitochondria in the heart cells. They even show that the mitochondria is that you know, it's the powerhouse of the cell. It's what makes you walk around. It's what drives every single cell they found a protein called p 27, which is stimulated by caffeine. And when they gave heart attacks to mice, and then they gave them coffee, the mice that got the coffee, or the caffeine equivalent, recovered quicker, knockout mice that they took away the P 27 protein or whatever, they all died of heart attacks. So quick little thing in the news, coffee good, helps diabetes helps heart disease. And now we realize that it improves mitochondria. So I got to thinking and I was like, wow, the whole mitochondria is our aging thing. I found an article where they looked at old an aging mice, the more caffeine that they took in during the day, the more that their mitochondria were younger, and it was an anti aging molecule. So polyphenols plus caffeine, it looks like.
Eric Rieger
it's really interesting, brief note, and maybe we should even do a show about caffeine and the systemic effects because during anesthesia school, we talked about why caffeine does what it does, and the jitters. And essentially, the way it was explained to us and shown to us is that they didn't know the exact mechanism, but they could tell that the threshold that it took for like a neuron to fire was lessened. So what it does is it lowers threshold to elicit an action potential. It would make sense that somebody who's a little bit older, basically you're taking down the barrier. And now you've got demand making the mitochondria useful. I mean, it's...
Ken Brown
Yeah, I like where you're going with that.
Eric Rieger
It's all kind of systemic, we'll get to that. That sounds like a an interesting...
Ken Brown
So that's just basically in the news Heart Month now we're doing this...
Eric Rieger
And if you think this episode's fast, wait til we do the caffeine one.
Ken Brown
So this is just one of those things where we're, we're trying some different stuff out but one of the biggest problems I had is I called the stroke center and they do not have a protocol. And then when I called the neurologists and and I said one thing I was like, have you guys ever thought about the endocannabinoid system, in your specialty.
Eric Rieger
No, they haven't.
Ken Brown
Not only No, it was a hard no with that BS.
Eric Rieger
Sure. Yeah.
Ken Brown
So rather than get an argument and like, we'll just do a show on it.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, we will.
Ken Brown
So this show should be titled the anti bs side of endocannabinoid system and stroke.
Eric Rieger
Let's do it.
Ken Brown
Alright. So, once again, geeky sorry, we've done two geeky shows in a row. We're gonna have to start having, you know, just playful things. We have to have a comedian on like Joe Rogan or something like that.
Eric Rieger
Eventually.
Ken Brown
Yeah. It's probably a little premature. Alright, so let's talk about the endocannabinoid system really quick. I'm gonna throw it to you, and I'm gonna let you just to describe to everybody what is the endocannabinoid system.
Eric Rieger
The best application that we know today that I understand is it basically functions as a great communicator, between our nervous and our immune system. So you have these two systems and basically it functions as the regulator. It's the one that prevents one from being overstimulated and driving the other one to do something that you don't want it to do.
Eric Rieger
100% So the way that I describe it to my patients, our endocannabinoid system is like any other system in our body, you have a cardiovascular and neurologic. The endocannabinoid system works like a traffic cop. And what it does is it says we need more inflammation here. Whoa, you're overreacting. Why don't you just calm down right over here? So keep that in mind, because as we talked about the endocannabinoid system, now we're going to talk about how does the endocannabinoid system relate to stroke. So unfortunately, we got to talk a little bit about strokes. And I like history you like history. So, Hippocrates, the father of medicine first recognized strokes over 2400 years ago, we got 2400 years to figure out how to fix this. At that time, they called it apo Plexi, which means struck down by violence. So 2400 years and to this day stroke still kill 140,000 Americans. That's one out of every 20 deaths.
Eric Rieger
Wow.
Ken Brown
Someone in the United States has a stroke every 40 seconds. That means every four minutes someone dies. Every year more than seven Well, let's just call it 800,000 people in the United States have a stroke. About 87% of all strokes are ischemic stroke. Which means it's decrease of blood flow. And $34 billion are lost every single year due to strokes. Stroke is a leading cause of serious long term disability, stroke reduces mobility in more than half of stroke survivors. So the, if the actual death is not shocking enough. It's your health span is reduced. And you and I always talk about lifespan versus health span...be healthy. So what I'm going to talk about right here is crazy that this is not being implicated. This is not are not implicated not not being used in the traditional sense.
Eric Rieger
Gotcha.
Eric Rieger
All right. So, right now, the cool science going on is that we've got all this intervention, we got labs, we got stroke centers. We did we're, I feel like we can do a whole episode on just the diet, the supplements, everything around lifestyle on a stroke. And we're going to do that just like we're gonna do the butyrate episode coming up and just like we're going to do, every time we get into a topic, we start digging deeper, and we learn a little bit more. So today, the fact that these neurologists are saying, oh, food is Bs, well, I'm just taking on the big 600 pound gorilla. I want to say, Well, I want to know what you're not even thinking about endocannabinoids are you? And they're like, that's really bs. Now we're gonna get into it. So it is there's tons of research in the animal model of how to target so this topic of this podcast is the endocannabinoid system and strokes. Holy cow, there's tons of data on this and we're not even talking about it. I'm at a, a world class Stroke Center. Where we save more people than like anyplace else. We've been given national recognition. If if you're the CEO of who owns our house, the old colombia The HCA HCA if you're the CEO of HCA, pay attention because I can say more people for you, because as it turns out, there's lots of confusing data out there. And I took the time to go ahead and look at some of this. It's really cool. Basically, we've already reviewed the endocannabinoid system. Now in this endocannabinoid system, there's two primary receptors. We're learning that there's more for the Wil Clydens of the world that are super smart, and they understand that there's a lot more than that or the Chris Kressors and people like that. But for the general public, there's two receptors, cb one and CB two, there are the traffic cops, right? So that's what we have to realize. So as we alter the endocannabinoid system through different things, we know that the endocannabinoid system is associated with Parkinson's disease. It's associated with Alzheimer's and multiple sclerosis. The only drug approved is epidiolex for seizures. This is part of the problem. It's the confusion of what's going on? People say what does the FDA say? Well, did you know that the FDA just missed their mark to present to Congress on February 20? No?
Ken Brown
Yeah, they missed it. That's another news article. They did not come up with a consensus statement on CBD when they were mandated by Congress to do that, because everybody's so confused.
Eric Rieger
Wow, you know, I didn't know that we should look into that.
Ken Brown
And we know that in those studies of epidiolex, there was 86% side effects and all the things. So what I'm going to get into is the full spectrum, what we're looking at here, so stick with me here I know that I'm kind of bouncing around. What I'm trying to do is set the stage that the endocannabinoid system is intricately related to the disease known as a stroke or the event known as a stroke. So knowing that the endocannabinoid system is important in Parkinson's and in Alzheimer's, dementia and such like that, what we want to try and figure out is how is the endocannabinoid system related to similar things which is Parkinson's and dementia are inflammation in the brain. Well, the stroke is immediate inflammation. Alright, so CB one receptors. I say this only because the argument will come up will be like, well, I found some studies that showed that there were some studies looking at CB one receptors were when you had knockout mice, they did better. Other studies show that they did worse. Some said that this and that. And so I was going through all this literature going, this is silly. This is we don't really have a conclusion. So the bottom line is, think of it this way. And I will use a Will Klyden quote, it is a symphony. It is not one instrument. When you are looking at the endocannabinoid system, if you are just going to focus on one thing, which unfortunately researchers do because it's impossible to account for all the other variables, all I can say is CB one is intricately involved and it may be involved in a negative way. When it becomes a stroke. So if Your endocannabinoid system is not in tune. It can make it worse. Just like a symphony where you have the brass section which is just screwing it up. You've got the rest of the symphony playing Mozart and you've got some other people just kicking some cake.
Eric Rieger
An orchestra with only symbols is not very entertaining.
Ken Brown
No, it's not. So I bring this up because when you start trying to read it and debate it and look at it, you can be thrown curveballs. One of them is that and, but then you dig deeper. And there's all this literature on this instrument called CB two. Cb two is the other instrument, cb one, cb two are the two receptors. Now we're learning more about the endocannabinoid system, the data is much more straightforward on this. Basically, multiple rat models have shown that when you give an agonist or a CB two activator, both pre stroke and post stroke you decrease the amount of damage, so you can actually prevent what's going to happen. And then once it happens, you go, Oh, we need to stimulate that. Keep that in mind. Because to prove a point further, when CB two was blocked, the rats had tremendously more damage and they had residual effects. So just by saying the endocannabinoid system, and they're like, oh, it involves CB one, cb two, which is the top level that everybody talks about. The interplay is way more, you gotta let the body do what it wants to do. can't shut one off, you can't turn one on. You can't encourage you have to be able to let the body do what it wants to do.
Eric Rieger
No, definitely. And that's, that's really not that different than lots of different drugs which they thought they pulled them out of racemic mixtures. And then what racemic mixture means is you've got two different variations of the same molecule and one's active and one isn't But then they learned that sometimes if you do one and try to isolate it, you actually caused damage. Whereas before, if you had them together, you didn't have that damage. And it's played that multiple times.
Ken Brown
So clearly CB two receptors play a very key role. What I'm trying to prove here is that when we take these animals and we mess with these receptors, we either increase the damage or we decrease the damage. So the theory is that the endocannabinoid mediated modulation of the inflammatory process is the reason why people get better. So in other words, we always talk about inflammation. Now they're realizing that the CB two receptor mitigates the inflammatory process during an ischemic event.
Eric Rieger
That's pretty important.
Ken Brown
It's really wild. So now what actually interacts with these receptors? So if somebody's never heard these terms before, they're like, man, they're talking weird stuff. They're talking CB one, cb two, don't worry about that. Cb one, cb two are just two likeminded things that are trying to make you better. As it turns out, we can say this about every single system in the body there's going to be interactions, downplaying in the gastrointestinal system. Histamine will stimulate a cell which will produce gastrin, which will increase the acid production blah, blah, blah, we know this
Eric Rieger
But histamine could, the same molecule on a different receptor could cause a completely different
Ken Brown
100%. So why would the endocannabinoid system not be different than every other system?
Eric Rieger
It's it sounds to me like it's very normal.
Ken Brown
You know what I keep saying? We're gonna have Endocannabinoid ologists I'm gonna be the first endocannabinologist. I'm gonna get myself a title. So somebody had to be the first black belt or something. I mean, why don't I just rushed to be like? I'm It! I'm it!
Eric Rieger
I'm the BBECS.
Ken Brown
Yeah. Alright, so there's two endocannabinoids. What I mean is you make your own CBD. And those two things there's we're learning that there's lots of them. But for the basics it's anandamide and 2ag. So knowing that you have these two endogenous meaning two endocannabinoids that stimulate CB one and CB two now we're just learning what they do. Okay. So 2ag goes up dramatically following a stroke.
Eric Rieger
So trying to do some damage control.
Ken Brown
We don't know...
Eric Rieger
We don't know...
Ken Brown
We do know that when anandamide is the soft light that is always on when you go through a stressful event 2ag turns on switch the flashlight. So the feeling is that that 2ag is the fight or flight Endocannabinoid.
Eric Rieger
Oh, okay.
Ken Brown
Yeah, so when you need it, It ramps way up. In situations where there's cell damage, it doesn't know the difference that there's cell damage possibly it's ramping up because it's like we're in fight or flight mode. We're dying here.
Eric Rieger
Where's the inflammation?
Ken Brown
Yeah, so these guys are postulating that when you block 2AG, the stroke damages less. My feeling is well, what if it's doing something someplace else? Like, what if you needed that 2ag burst? So when you have fight or flight, you need it for different things. Sure. Some people would say, oh, you're having a fighter flight. You're being chased by a saber toothed Tiger your blood pressure's up. We should give you blood pressure medicine. No, it's the right thing that should be happening right now. Yeah, I need the blood pressure to pump the blood. So we know that that to ag is your fight or flight Endocannabinoid think of it that way the flashlight Anandamide is the one that you want up, that is the
Eric Rieger
Parasympathetic, your rest and digest.
Ken Brown
It's the it's not quite the parasympathetic one, but it's the one that is your baseline that should always be filled, that anandamide tank should always be filled. 2aG. We're gonna learn more about it in the future because we haven't studied that as much. But when you have 2ag around, blood flow gets reduced. So the damage is worse. And this is really interesting because when your baseline anandamide is low, your 2 a G will overshoot.
Eric Rieger
Okay.
Ken Brown
So they work like a seesaw. So if you can get them in balance, we always talked about balance and in sync. When your anadamide is full and your 2ag is full, they never really mess with each other. In a situation where you're depleted in your endocannabinoid system, then you will have the propensity to have too much 2Ag and your anandamide is in fight or flight and your endocannabinoids will keep producing the two AJ,
Eric Rieger
That is very, very interesting. So in other words, what we want is to never be in a position where our our ECS is low on what it needs to function.
Ken Brown
100% so anandamide we're now learning is probably the baseline Endocannabinoid that controls the day to day response that you're having. 2ag turns on when you need it to turn on. So, although the animal models show that 2ag increases significantly causes vasoconstriction and all this stuff, we're learning that okay, maybe, maybe this is my theory, the stress and the chronic disease. Listen to this one more time here, the stress and the chronic disease that led to a stroke. Meant that your anandamide was being depleted and your body was getting ready for the event. You're 2ag going up. So stress, lack of sleep, diet, all have been shown to decrease our anandamide levels, stress, lack of sleep and diet have all been shown to be linked to cardiac and stroke and every other event that we talked about
Eric Rieger
Time and time again.
Ken Brown
So when I grab a neurologist and I say, Have you ever thought about the endocannabinoid system, the religious stroke and they're like, that's BS. I'm being nice about how they said it to me. Are you kidding me?
Eric Rieger
Well, it's...
Ken Brown
we're missing this huge, giant piece.
Eric Rieger
It's kind of sad because the research isn't it's not one paper. This is it's ubiquitous, it grows every single day. I think people have over the last 50 years have forgotten that innovation brought us to where we are now. I mean, we used to not have TPA we used to not have kumudin and we used to not have these things I mean it those were also new introductive things for us to figure out.
Ken Brown
I was talking to somebody yesterday and they were like you know what's really skewed when you look back at like the the average lifespan when you when you factor out the deaths at birth people still live to like 60 and 70. Like, like, but there was so many things that killed babies
Eric Rieger
Oh, you mean long ago,
Ken Brown
Like long ago. So when I say that Hippocrates was describing strokes, and you know, 2000 years ago, whatever. But this is so fascinating because think about this, if you keep your anandamide levels optimal like adding Atrantil which blocks an enzyme that breaks down your own anandamide levels. That is something that we can look at, and I think that's part of the next episode. But when you take CBD, so our CBD product here, when you take a good quality CBD it doesn't even bind directly to CB one or CB two. We know that a full spectrum product has many cannabinoids and other molecules that bind to certain receptors. We also believe that CBD will play a role in helping the body to produce more of its own Endocannabinoids. So what I tell my patients is that if you take CBD, you're going to increase your own anandamide levels. You take CBD plus Atrantil, That's the signature package and you're going to make sure that you block the enzyme that breaks down your anandamide
Eric Rieger
So it lasts longer.
Ken Brown
So it lasts longer and the neurologists like there's no science in this. Okay? So I had to dig deeper, or our secret weapon dug deeper for me. In rat models, infusing CBD into the brains of rats significantly helped to decrease the amount of damage and help recover in stroke. Really CBD does nothing? They actually injected CBD into the brains of rats that they cause strokes. And it actually blocked the ischemic event. One to One. Crazy!
Eric Rieger
That's noticeable. That's a reproducible event.
Ken Brown
Then in another study, they showed that the blood brain barrier sealed its tight junction and decreased brain swelling post stroke when you gave them CBD,
Eric Rieger
Which is huge. I mean, I know it sounds really, really technical, but trust me, that's not nothing.
Ken Brown
Remember the whole reason that I'm even talking about this is because our friend Tim just called me and said, Hey, man, my dad's in rehab, and they're not saying anything. Well, it was shown that continued oral administration post stroke at one week, and one month reduced the volume of infarct and improved neuro behavior on autopsy. So they're taking this it showed that CBD reduced white matter injury reduced glial response, meaning that the cells did not react to it. And it increased BDNF.
Eric Rieger
Which is what you need for repair.
Ken Brown
You need that for repair. Shit! This is nuts. Yeah, we're over here saying that CBD isn't do anything where the endocannabinoid doesn't have it and I'm finding article after article and these guys are finding amazing data BDNF. If I the first thing I would do would be to the first thing I would do would be to put people we're going to come up with a whole protocol. And I'm gonna go to HCA and don't be like, everybody that has a frickin stroke needs ABCD and one of them's gonna be frickin CBD. This is ridiculous.
Eric Rieger
We've got some opportunity, though. And not everybody's closed, we could probably find a couple of neurologists around here in the area that are at least willing to fairly examine data and dive in. And that's what we'll have to do.
Ken Brown
We're gonna end up having to go into this. I mean, the fact that I called my own Stroke Center, and the nurse sheepishly said, Well, you know, they do the usual things that put them on a low fat diet, and I stopped her. Which, by the way, it's really cool, because when I called up, I was picking Lucas up and I was like, yeah, hey, it was nurse manager. And she's like, Yeah, and I said, I said, Yeah, this is, this is Dr. Brown. Do you have moment to ask couple questions. She's like, sure what patient is that? Regarding? I'm like, now I just wanna ask some questions. And she stopped. She goes the GI Doctor said, Yeah, she's like, oh, like, what do you mean uh Oh, she's like, I've seen your show. I'm a little scared what you're gonna ask. I'm like alright and so that's how we got this talk. So right now new models are looking at immediate administration of CBD and hyperthermia. So somebody out there is saying, if we make them cold and give them CBD, and it seems to be a synergistic effect
Eric Rieger
Wasn't that long ago, people thought that making the body cold was a bunch of Hocus Pocus crap, too, right? It really wasn't that long ago. And so now we've returned to its natural element, all we're doing is reducing body temperature. But however long ago it was, I can remember people saying, Well, you know, they're trying the cryo, and at first like, hey, maybe it works. And then suddenly, we saw lack of decrease in loss of neural function, you know, make believers.
Ken Brown
So I want to play devil's advocate, and we talked last time that we're going to do some sort of like contest. Here's the contest, for the listeners. All right. There is a reference when I was looking at all this stuff, one reference, there was an article on stroke in cannabis ingestion, where they said that cannabis ingestion increases the incidence of stroke. So and then I went and found the article and realized there's a lot of other factors associated with that, much like the FDA article that we did on liver failure. It's very much like that. But the FDA is using an article like that and ignoring everything that I just said. And they're using that. So what I propose is and you figured out, you're the you're the techie guy, let's do some sort of giveaway where if somebody the first person that messages us in one way or another email, Instagram, Facebook,
Eric Rieger
Paul we're gonna need help with that,
Ken Brown
yeah, snail mail, whatever, I don't know. That references the article and puts the author's names down because the author's names you'll you'll really, you'll You'll definitely find the article when you find this author's names, that I think we should give them a signature package
Eric Rieger
Signature package if you find the well hidden, gem about marijuana, cannabis smoking and stroke causation, right?
Ken Brown
Yeah. So spoiler alert. So I'm going through a whole Rick and Morty Phase I should do.
Eric Rieger
If you're not watching Rick and Morty, that's one way to decrease anxiety.
Ken Brown
All right.
Eric Rieger
This episode is brought to you by Rick and Morty.
Ken Brown
I cannot believe it's took me this long to find that show I am I come home and that's 20 minutes of just complete giggle time, just total giggle time. Alright, so lots of cool animal data. I just explained what I think shows that the endocannabinoid system is intricately related to strokes and how we can improve it and in some ways if you try and mess with it, make it worse.
Eric Rieger
So let's I know we did a quick episode but let's just do a quick rundown to make sure that everybody who's listening or watching can make their own crib notes. So, essentially, before and after a stroke, you can prepare your body for better recovery or prevention of the stroke itself that comes from having a healthy endocannabinoid system your ECS. How can you fortify your ECS? You make sure that you have enough sleep, you make certain that your diet is rich in polyphenols, which of course you can supplement with altrantil, and you make certain that you have the correct macronutrients for your ECS to lift up which you can get with a formidable or reputable CBD which kbmd health has both of those things. So in essence, if you want you don't know how you're going to get hurt, a lot of people don't know that they're going to have a heart attack today had a patient today. 172 pounds
Ken Brown
I thought you were gonna say 172 years old and I was like wow
Eric Rieger
Six foot one Well built man. 172 pounds 49 years old, has been doing jujitsu and Taekwondo for 30 something years. Heart Attack had a heart attack back in 2012. Undiagnosed cad, the guy's got, which is coronary artery disease, the guy has two stents in. My point is, nobody knows you don't know when you're going to be susceptible to something. So if you can, he was doing what he could, right he was exercising. So he was doing that part, right, but maybe something else that he could have been aware of...
Ken Brown
I'm telling you, we're going to learn that the endocannabinoid system plays a much bigger role in this and we have seen diseases start happening earlier and all that stuff.
Eric Rieger
KBMD health GCP code GCP save 20% on your signature package.
Ken Brown
100%. So the bottom line is that there's tons of supporting evidence that exists for the involvement of the endocannabinoid system and the pathology of a stroke. Now clearly, this is super complex and we're just getting into it. And these researchers that are coming up with conflicting data about trying to block CB one or trying to agonize CB two, don't, don't do that what we really need to do is just make sure let your body do what it wants to do, when there is sufficient anandamide, which is the one that we know really kind of helps out, it will work like a traffic cop and keep the receptors in check. 2ag is probably necessary for certain things. So if we're doing this show, and you start to well, like I'm like, okay, bottom line is if I'm looking at you, and you're talking to me, and all of a sudden you start slurring your speech and half your face starts drooping. Yeah, you look like you're having a stroke. First thing I'm going to do is run and grab a whole bottle of KBMD CBD and I'm gonna shove it down your throat because at least we know in animal models, that makes a big difference. And then I'm going to go get a bunch of other supplements that we're going to do a whole nother show on that should be protocol for every single stroke center in the US. So much like the butyrate podcast, we got another one that we're getting into and I'm gonna bring a neurologist on and I want to bring an expert so that we can talk about it
Eric Rieger
Small request, if I'm having a stroke and you're going to do all that CBD also get a speech pathologist to make sure I can swallow.
Ken Brown
Yes, we will do all that if you're having a stroke, but I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, but we're going to finish the show first.
Eric Rieger
Cool.
Ken Brown
So, I mean, if it starts happening, try to do it towards the tail end of the show. You know, do you know that I've had four heart attacks since we've started this. This whole podcast show but I just suck it up, move on. I've had all kinds of health issues.
Eric Rieger
That Believe it or not is going to go down to the books is our first short episode.
Ken Brown
Well, we want to do a short episode because I feel like we're getting a little too sciency and I want your feedback. I mean, quite honestly, do you like the science you not like the science? Do you want the guest? Do you not want the guest? But when I find stuff like this, I have to let it out. And if you gave me Two hours, I'd be talking for two hours. So this is just a way to control the amount of vomit that I do right here. But it's so cool. How are we not doing this?
Eric Rieger
I don't know. But I think I think will change though. And thanks every single week and thanks to Paul. we're gaining viewers. We're gaining listeners. This last week was a huge spike in the last seven shows. So thank you.
Ken Brown
And you want to know what people are reaching out on their Insta they're messaging me on Instagram and they're asking medical questions. I love that I'm we're going to do shows on that stuff. So if you've got questions, let's do this.
Eric Rieger
Definitely. that's gonna do it for episode number 34. That was strokes and the endocannabinoid system. We will in the show notes, go ahead and add unrefined bakery, their offer is still good. So save 20% if you want to have keto friendly, no gluten, paleo friendly, whatever kind of meal that you're after, and you feel like you can't have bread, they've got the solution for you unrefinedbakery.com use code, gutcheck and save 20%
Ken Brown
Yeah,so once again, please do us a big favor. What we're trying to do is really spread this message of functional health. share it with everybody, get people calling in, get people asking because we've got the resources. we're gaining a little bit of traction here and this can be really fun. This was such an eye opener for me. Endocannabinoid system and strokes. All because somebody said my dad had a stroke
Ken Brown
and Tim power thanks for reaching out. certainly appreciate it. gut check project. In the books go to gut check project. com share, like and share and we appreciate it.
All right. Welcome back. It's gut check project, Episode Number 33. I'm here with your host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. I'm Eric Rieger. Dr. Brown. What's happening In a day?
Not much I tell you what, this is really cool Episode 33. It's you and I know guest because we got to cover some serious science.
Yeah, we do. A lot of people want to know what happens whenever you take certain things that works as post biotics, not just probiotics, but what do I do to feed my bacteria? And is that even number one? Is that even a real thing? What's a post biotic? Do I care what happens with the foods that I eat and what my bacteria does with it? And if I do, what's happening? so I'm going to, we're going to deep into deep into, we're going to dive in deep into some awesome science about what happens when we take care of our bodies, bacteria.
Well, the reason why I wanted to get into this is that we got tons of feedback on the fecal microbial transplant episode. And then of course, when we had Panez on here talking about Crohn's disease. Yeah. So one of our viewers, Don sent me a message that basically said, so I'm more confused than ever. What do we do now? I started looking into it, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, now I know why so many things happen to poor Heli I, we're going to talk about that we're going to look into this, and hopefully clear up a few things. But I love the fact that we have viewers that are calling in be like, great episode, but now I'm more confused now and you know, follow it up. So that's what we're going to do today we're going to follow it up and talk about how Heli and Panez that has groans and Ellie, with her horrible autoimmune disease and everything like that with her fecal microbial transplant. I'm now starting to put the pieces together. I'm moving this big bubble of Venn diagrams, and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, this is here. So that's what we're going to do today. Your job because I mean, when I mean, I got excited, like, I my hair started going up in my arms. I was like, it's there. We're missing this. What I'm going to do right now is talking about some stuff that probably should have been put together before or maybe it has been maybe, but I looked at a lot of research I spent I just went down rabbit holes, and I'm kind of excited to talk about it.
Well, it's awesome. It's easy to do. I can tell you that I would imagine that we're probably going to talk about not only post biotics, but some really cool names like short chain fatty acids, right? We're going to head that direction?
We're going to talk about that ..Polyphenols
We're going to talk about SIBO, its IBS, all that stuff.
Polyphenols
This is gonna be a great episode. If you if you if you're truly interested in gut health, you cannot ever stop expanding your knowledge and understanding why people say, health begins and ends in the gut. If there's a reason why that people who change your diet feel better, and this is what we're going to talk about today, so..
Yeah, totally. But you know, but before we get into that, we're not just, we're not just podcast nerds. I have a life.
Okay.
I'm pretty excited. I went and I did Rachel Sheers podcast, Sheer Madness. With her little Frenchie thingy Bulldog, yeah, called Lily. And so we went and did that. That's gonna launch here pretty soon, but you can see pictures of that. So that's cool. Um, and I also feel like I've been working too hard and people ask me, they're like, you know, do you have a hobby I'm like, wow, I'm..No so I was watching 60 minutes and I don't know why I'm turning into my dad. We're now I watch 60 minutes on Sundays and rather enjoy it. But I'm gonna pick up falconry. In fact, I've picked up falconry.
That's amazing. You've already done it in such a short amount of
Yeah, specifically Golden Eagle falconry.
Okay
Yeah. So basically I watched a 60 minute episode and Mongolia Nomads depend on animals to get other animals because they have no agriculture. So what they do is they make this bond with golden eagles and they use them to hunt other animals for them. And they've been doing this for thousands of years. Well, there's a woman named Lauren McGough. She's a PhD, she traveled to Mongolia. She's from Oklahoma.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, like, imagine having that conversation with your dad. You're like, I'm gonna go to Mongolia. But she's from Oklahoma. She found this old book on Eagle hunters. And she's like I'm gonna go do this. So she figured out that this is such a unique way of living where you live in unison with the animals. So she went there, she captured her own Golden Eagle bonded with it, and then became part of their tribe and hunted with this thing.
Wow.
And then has come back and it's been like, you know, a conservationist and she's a PhD and she lectures and all this other stuff. So these things, she owns her own eagle and what they do is they there's, they describe how you actually get it, but it's safe and everything in the ego bonds and then they let the ego go, like you're back out in the wild. I'm done with young either, you know, do you want to leave like when the ego wants to leave, it just leaves, but it hangs out so they can fly 50 miles an hour, and they can see seven times better than a human. And then they let it go. So anyways, I got into it. So I got my first Golden Eagle. And I've been trying to do this, but it just keeps bringing the neighbor's cat to me.
Yeah
It's not working the way it did on 60 minutes.
While like he keeps bringing the neighbor's cat so it's unharmed, which is really really sweet.
Totally unharmed. It's it's a completely loving eagle, the cat loves it. I just pet it for a little while. Yeah. Then it delivers it back to the neighbor. I don't know where the neighbor is.. Could be different city who knows? Travels 50 miles an hour.
It's common knowledge of birds of prey just don't ever hurt anything. They just want to show it to somebody.
So that's my hobby.
Yeah, interesting. I can't even match that. So probably not going to the boys are about Star basketball playoffs. So that's what we're getting fired up to do. weekend was nice. Did some camping Saturday, Saturday evening. Woke up to beautiful sunrise Sunday. It was it was awesome. And that really kind of what we did this weekend is can take it easy. So..
Good for you. Taking it easy is good. I want to bring up one in the news article that I saw because pretty cool.
Yeah.
All right. You're gonna love this. Just published this month, actually. It was published the February 14th. So in the news, the American Heart Association published a study out of Northwestern on peace. With peripheral artery disease PAD, also known as PVD, peripheral vascular disease. Now peripheral vascular disease or arterial disease is a narrowing of the arteries that reduces the blood flow from the heart. So the further away from the heart. Imagine you have coronary artery disease. Same thing happens all over the body... But the further away it gets, it can actually affect people where you can't walk very, very far and it affects over 8.5 million people 40 years of age or older nationwide. It's a big deal. Sure. So this is so cool. In a small study of 44 people at Northwestern University of patients over the age of 60. They gave them a beverage drink containing flavonoid rich cocoa.
Interesting.
They gave them cocoa and then they added some epigalic tannins to it.
Hmm, sound familiar?
Thats polyphenol people right there polyphenols, they gave people polyphenols the American Heart Association is now starting to catch up they're, I think watching the podcast.
I'm sure they are.
I think they are. So basically what they did is they showed that people that took this three times a day for six months, which shows that it is a supplement three times a day in a cardiac diseased laden population, ... no side effects... three times a day, six months, and they improved their six minute walking test compared to those who drank the same number and type of beverages without the supplement.
It's funny you say that because people who have serious complications with diabetes that ends up with PVD or PAD, oftentimes, they end up doing that walking test, especially if they have numbness in their feet, or they notice that they have sores on their toes that they're unaware, but a family member sees, right?
Yeah
So just a side note, if you happen to have diabetes, it may, it may behoove you to keep up with your polyphenol intake daily.
And it also may behoove you to listen to the rest of this podcast because I'm going to get some cool stuff but so look at this.. so you're like, Okay, well what does that mean? So if I drink cocoa notes cocoa enriched with epigalic, tannins, same tannins that we have in Atrantil the right part, those are the polyphenols. So those that drank this, they improve their muscle function over the placebo. But what's really cool is they showed that they did muscle biopsies and they showed increased mitochondrial activity. It improved the mitochondria increase the blood flow through through..
The mitochondria what are you saying?
No, no, it increase the blood flow because of the polyphenols through..?
Arterial
Dilation, because of nitric oxide production.
Okay
Everything that we've been talking about.
I know he's teeing me up folks, I really hate them. Because there was lots of through there and and
Yeah, I'm just just follow this basically.. We now have scientific reasons why polyphenols improved sports performance, okay. It affects mitochondria and it increases the blood flow.
Now we're into a much better realm. And I understand the categories that we're in because we've multiple times referenced the studies that Joe Botel from from England was talked specifically about increasing nitric oxide, specifically in athletes to increase blood flow, increased performance, etc. So sorry, I didn't see the T up there.
Well, this is what's so beautiful. We always talk about, you know, athletic performance. Now we're talking disease. Now we're saying that, okay, yes, if you're a triathlete, or if you're a marathon runner, but there's a whole lot more people, you want to see how many people actually have peripheral vascular disease. Go to the airport. I remember and this is a man, this was a I remember when I was flying. I think the flight was going to Florida. Oh, and so there was quite a few people over the age of 60. They were all in shorts. None of them had leg hair.
Oh, well, and circumference right..
Circumference.
All the way ... So just so you don't get along because I'm one of these if you still have hair. On one side of your leg, but on the other, that's not what we're talking about. But if you have a, there's like a line of demarcation... And then suddenly the hair stops you, you probably need to at least be checked out because there's a lack of blood flow.
Yeah. So what ends up happening is is that the blood flows to go from the heart all the way to the toes. And so the micro vasculature starts decreasing before the macro vasculature meaning you're going to sacrifice the skin, blood flow to protect the muscles and the joints and the cartilage and all that other stuff. So that's how many like I looked around one day and I was like, Oh my god, I truly believe that almost everybody here has coronary artery disease slash PAD. Now we're looking at this going they all need to be on a polyphenol..
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's really, really interesting. And that's crazy. So yeah, so these these polyphenols definitely will help naturally benefit and produce nitric oxide so that you can increase your blood flow. And if you're already compromised help your body out.
Do it never even thought about the whole mitochondria thing.
Now? Obviously I didn't either, because I just sat there and stared at you. I said
Yeah. Now the question is they didn't get into why they're actually asking in the article at Northwestern. They're saying the etiology, or the the physiology of how this is accomplished has yet to be determined. But we know it increases nitric oxide.
Yeah, we do.
I'm going to get into some stuff here shortly where I'm going to tell you that it's all about the post biotics.
All right
It's nuts. So for the next so I'm going to that's, that's it. That's our that's our fun part of the podcast.
Now, that is fun, though. Honestly, if you've got circulatory issues, at least, you know, there could be a natural solution that will at least help. Number one, give you some more time. Number two, give us an idea of what you can do to improve things for yourself.
So I mean, if there's one reason to do this podcast, and I keep saying this every single time, but I'm getting I'm learning I'm getting better. We've got our little secret weapon that keeps sending me articles and I'm just like, Oh my gosh, this one ties to this this one ties to this. So this is going to be a review of short chain fatty acids and you're like, I don't own any of those. I'm gonna get off. No, you need to hear this. Basically if you're a mammal on the planet Earth, this is a really important podcast for you.
If you can understand the words he's saying that is you... yeah.
Unless you're a flat earther
Yeah, well they probably still should take they still take polyphenols..
Should I shouldn't take that back question discriminated against. Unfortunately, I just watched that Joe Rogan episode with the astronauts. I'm all about space right now.
Oh, yeah. Well, it's funny just the other day I passed the flat earth mobile in Denton, Texas. Yeah, it's pretty fun. On the back it says the earth is flat and you pan down to is buffered it says and motionless, which I think is awesome. But whatever. Well, so let's get into short chain fatty acids post biotics. Let's, let's get into some some awesome science here and, and let people know why it's so important.
Alright, so I mentioned the very beginning that this was sort of brought on because the viewer Don said, Well, what next and then I started going down this rabbit hole, then I started Heli. If you watch the episode where we do the fecal microbial transplant This is that mean that she's not an actress, she's desperate.
Sure.
And things are happening to her and they're happening fast and she is panicking. We had Pannez that is at risk for all these things that we're talking about, but it's super complex. Ultimately, it all comes down to the microbiome. Unfortunately, As Americans, we disrupt our own microbiome by our lifestyles, like eating crappy diets, taking antibiotics, lack of exercise, and probably poor sleep are the biggest deals. And this is going to result in a decrease in diversity. You're going to hear this term over and over and over again. People always talk about I'll just take probiotics and improve this. No, it's way more complex than this. We're going to get into it. But basically, you need a true diverse microbiome, to aid in your health. Researchers are now showing that neuro degenerative issues like dementia, Parkinson's, anything that affects your brain. And you know, Eric, we've talked about this a bunch that my goal as a physician right now is to figure out a way to stop dementia.
Yep.
Because we come on the show and we talk we talk about our kids or about our wives. We talked about stuff. Imagine if all of a sudden it's gone. What was your life, ultimately, your life becomes memories and those memories are what forms your personality and all these other things, and then they affect stuff. The thought of taking away my memory is, I mean, people people don't really think about how, how difficult dementia really is.
I mean, it's it's a it's a hard one. I've had friends whose parents have faded that way? My wife's grandmother, I mean, we wonderful woman and went through just honestly her own living hell not being able to relate to the people that she felt like she knew around her. And just it's no good.
No. And so if we can sit down, start piecing things together.
Yeah.
And not only the neurodegenerative things, but now researchers are starting to look at this. I mean, I just gave that article about the American Heart Association looking at a polyphenolic complex. That means that the traditional medical complex is starting to look at this stuff starting awesome
Starting.
Now there's evidence to show that heart disease, heart attacks, strokes, diabetes, obesity, so if you're like, Oh, I don't know anybody with dementia. But do you know anybody with obesity, ever had a heart attack? You have a family history of anybody with diabetes? Any all that stuff is the real question is how and why?
Yep.
Why didn't Heli develop all these autoimmune issues after fecal microbial transplant? My theory I'm not I'm not a smart enough to be a flat earther that has cool bumper stickers like that. But so my theory is just looking at all this and looking at my patients. I'm not a I'm not a PhD bench researcher, but this is what the world needs is bench researchers coming up with stuff having animal models, clinicians out here, slugging it away, and weirdos getting on the air and talking about it yet try and figure it out. Yeah, bridge bridge the gap between traditional medicine and natural solutions. Alright, so my theory is that our microbes, our microbiome, the most important thing in your body that really helps regulate everything. Do we live for them? Do they live for us? We don't know. But it can be symbiotic. Meaning you can work together. They're fed by the food we eat specifically fibers and complex polysaccharides. polysaccharides are hard to digest starches, right? So through various mechanisms their, these bacteria break them down, they eat it. And then their waste products or basically what they leave over. We use .. So their compost is our fuel, right? It's a fantastic thing that we've never really thought of before..
Their compost is our fuel. That's that's, yeah, it's nice.
Yeah, so that's what we're now calling post biotics
Right?
And it's not a bad thing at all because what they produce in general post biotics, you can describe post biotics by their composition, like is it a fat, short chain fatty acid? Is it a complex molecule that we don't really know very much about it? Or does it do like your religion is one of them, your religion that creates the Mito con the mytophogy, right affects old and sick mitochondria.
And if you're keeping up that's also known as the anti aging post biotic
Produced by bacteria that breaks down these things a post biotic or the physiologic function that it causes. So we know that there's certain things about to reproduce that we haven't been able to label yet. There's been 800 post biotics, and they create all kinds of different diseases
Again, 800 post biotics
That scientists have at least discovered
Right. And it's just to be fair, it's much like the ocean, there's just because we have 800.. I don't even think we're near the end. I mean, there's lots to figure out and the combinations thereof anyway, I don't want to sidetrack
No, totally sidetracked the whole time. In fact, your sole job, because I'm like, when I mean that we discovered a topic here that I was like going, Oh, my gosh, we're, we're piecing things together. So when I start going down a rabbit hole too much, interrupt immediately and go, you don't you're not making any sense
Sure.
Just stop and start me over here. So this all started because of the fecal microbial transplant thing with Heli. And then Don says I'm more confused so that I started looking into it. And now I started realizing that these post biotics there's 800 of them, but let's Focus on one that we've done some serious research on, which is short chain fatty acids..
Okay?
Now short chain fatty acids are fatty acids that are really small. They're like fewer than six carbon atoms, meaning that it's very tiny. And they're made by our bacteria in our colon from undigestible, or from indigestible foods like fibers. And I always thought of them as fuel for the colon. That's how I was taught during my fellowship and residency in medical school, that they're, they're local. But the reality is it goes way beyond that, way, way, way beyond that. So these short chain fatty acids do include in to the geeky part, names like butyrate, acetate, propionate, and lactate, don't get hung up on the names, but in particular, butyrate is one that everybody talks about..
Right?
It's super important for gut health, and it's also known to help with gut motility corrects leaky gut, it works locally to heal the lining of the colon. But we now know that the other short chain fatty acids can actually be absorbed systemically as well. And we have not been paying attention to them. And they can influence the body in all different kinds of ways, depending on the host genes..
Right?
So you and I may react differently to these short chain fatty acids, depending on your genes. That's the epi genetic phenomena, right? That's how come Heli he developed all these issues when her donor did not have the issues. So that's a separate rabbit hole. But what I want to talk about is butyrate is so important that most nutritionists and scientists study this molecule that is its own episode.
Okay.
I'm going to talk about the black sheep of short chain fatty acids..
Which ones at that?
Oh, everything else but butyrate it okay. So if butyrate just know it's good, and you want butyrate? Yep. Now we're going to go into everything else and I want to explain how my patients like Pannez may have developed her problem, and we're going to bring it all the way back to short chain fatty acids like acetate and lactate and talk about that. So, the rest of this is I'm going to show you the model that I've never been able to explain up until right now. Okay. For instance, every time somebody sees me with SIBO small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, or irritable bowel syndrome, IBS, or inflammatory bowel disease, IBD, Crohn's colitis, I like to ask them a question. I'm like, Do you ever feel like you're in a brain fog? Do you ever have anxiety? Has your mood changed? You have sleep disturbance? The first thing I do is go right from the gut to the brain
Right?
And I asked because I've seen this correlation. And I've always said, Well, it's because of the inflammatory process. haven't really gone that deep into it because all the articles I was reading about that all showed that a inflamed gut can lead to an inflamed brain. Now let's dive a little bit deeper and find different reasons how these post biotics actually lead to that.
Okay
So if you're somebody that suffers from anxiety, it may have nothing to do with your brain. It may all start in your gut. And this is really wild. So step one, something happens.
Okay
You get back bacterial overgrowth, SIBO you have an infection, eat a crappy diet. This leads to leaky gut, or intestinal permeability. Now, new research is showing that this will actually once you develop intestinal permeability, it actually allows acetate and lactate to get absorbed more into the bloodstream.
That's not really what we want is it.
It's not what we want. So once it gets absorbed into the bloodstream, these short chain fatty acids have this incredible mechanism to cross the blood brain barrier through its own transport molecule. So in the past, we've always talked about leaky gut leaky brain. This actually has its own transport, it doesn't even have to be a leaky brain, it's got a little bridge that these guys ride.
So, in short, if I think this can be beneficial if you have a transport mechanism at the cellular level, basically, that just means that there's a little protein that's allowing passage or exchange of something to be taken from one side to the other. And I think that what you're explaining here is, we don't really want these molecules crossing over to the brain, but now that they are rapidly being absorbed through the gut, that they're more abundant in the brain, and that's not really what we're after.
So these guys finally get out of the gut. They got a VIP card. Yeah, they're like, whoo, VIP card front of the line, let me know the brain. So that's what's really fascinating. So acetate and lactate, once it gets in the brain. They can actually directly influence neurons. causing a series of effects. said again, it's a direct neuro transmitter. Nobody's ever said this that I've learned this in neurology..
Yea me either.
So lactate and acetate can cause a direct influence on the neurons by stimulating sympathetic nervous activity. What that means is..
Excitability..
They turn on the fight or flight.
Yeah, interesting. Well, guess what? Yes.
So this can cause a rise in blood pressure, heart rate and the opposite effect in the gut. When you have a sympathetic effect in the brain. You have a parasympathetic effect in the gut. What I mean by that is, I always tell my patients, the more because they're like, oh, man, I've been so stressed. I built constipation. Like it's a physiologic phenomenon when we were evolving. If you're being chased by a saber toothed tiger, you don't want to have sex or take a poop. Right as you're getting giddy.
Yeah. So you have to think fast and run.
Yeah, it's really funny. So like, I'm always thinking about that, like from sex. To actually have an erection. You have to have a para sympathetic response. wants to have an orgasm you need a sympathetic response and to actually have a bowel movement you need a parasympathetic. So parasympathetic is the opposite side of the fight or flight..
Right.
So now we've got this thing. I'm like, Oh my gosh, wait a minute. So, when you have SIBO, I'm just going to keep using the SIBO patient because, for the first time, I could say, oh, Heli on the interview, kept saying, I just am so anxious and just in and remember, I took a two hour interview to 15 minutes. I really kind of had to get her back focused the whole time. She was just like, I'm just wired and not wired like Robb Wolf. Alright, so then this becomes this really wild, this sympathetic effect causes a rise in the blood pressure, heart rate, and then the opposite effect, where then the motility gets messed up leading to more leaky gut. It becomes a vicious cycle.
Yeah.
So then while all this is going on, more inflammation happens. In the gut, the leaky gut then turns on the inflammatory cascade. So then that becomes our normal talk. That's I've given lectures on this part where I can show interleukin 12 and other 23. You know, cytokines blah, blah, blah, histamine..
These are all inflammatory markers.
Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh, what if the very, very, very, very beginning of it is too much lactate acetate getting into the brain that then tells the brain to turn on the gut, or to turn down the gut to create more inflammation. And now you've got this process going on. So we've talked about this for SIBO in years, but now I'm saying oh, my gosh, we gotta fix the post biotic situation before we can fix everything else. Yeah. So now you may be thinking, Okay, this is crazy. I don't have you know, it's, it's interesting. I don't have anxiety, I dont have depression, I don't have bloating, I don't have gut issues. I'm going to turn this off dope because Oh my goodness. Now we're going to look at some different things that these post biotics are actually linked to certain diseases..
Okay.
And now we're going to get outside of the gut. And I'm going to give you mechanisms about how these things affect or can create diabetes, blood pressure, dementia, all kinds of stuff.
Before we jump too far ahead. Can you give us an idea on what type of foods are used by these bacteria to create the post biotics that we don't want?..
To create the post box that we don't want? That's that is a great question. What we do know more is that the foods that produced the post biotics that we like are fibers, and digestible starches are resistant starches, things like that, right? overnight oats, you know, whatever type of fibers, polyphenols, the skins of vegetables and fruits. What we do know is that when you eat a diet high in processed foods.. you end up creating more bacteria that produce more lactate and acetate.
They're the things that I was kind of hinting at. And I kind of cheated a little bit but the things I was kind of hinting at were unrefined, our refined sugars. Yeah. And things like oils that we're not really supposed to consume like high, high pressed vegetable oils and different things like that they, they believe that those may be the the foods that allow the bacteria to produce the postbox that we don't want preservatives, foods that shouldn't be sitting on a shelf for months at a time and suddenly they're just fresh because they're in a package. Those may they don't know this for certain, but they think that those may be the kinds of foods that would lead to a lot of this lactate and acetate.
And nobody's talking about the post biotics doing this. And spoiler alert, I'm going to get into it a little bit. But basically, once you start producing more of it, you're it sends signals to those bacteria that are like we're winning..let's keep doing more. Yeah. So they end up propagating more or they end up colonizing more. whatever word you Want to use? Then you end up with more of that. And then they're sending brain signals to eat more of that. And that's that whole thing where now you're out there wondering why you're cracking open a bag of Oreos?
Well think about it if if I post bodek is influencing the way that my brain thinks she would have to draw the assumption that if I'm suddenly addicted to sugar, and I'm always craving sugar, whereas maybe I didn't before but now everyone my friends would know me as someone who just really likes sugar all the time. That could just be the the lack of that post biotic influencing the brain who's now told me Oh, you need to quickly go get this fix to make you feel this way.
Oh, I'm so glad you went with sugar on this one.
Nice.
Let's talk about diabetes.
Okay.
All right. So I found an article that basically looked at diabetes in a rat model. This research showed that diabetic mice fed a sad diet, a standard American diet, and this diet which is high sugar, high fat, high fats not bad, right? High. I think high sugar is always bad, right? You combine the two and it's a, it's horrible. Basically, they fed us they fed these diabetic mice a sad diet, and they showed immediately that the acetate level jumped right up. This rising acetate caused an acute rising glucose leading to the pancreas to secrete excess of insulin Yeah, then it should have and then this rise in insulin led to a huge rise in a hormone called ghrelin. Ghrelin..
Hungry.
Yeah. Can you go ahead and explain to everybody what ghrelin is. So,
Ghrelin is the the mechanism by which your your gut, your GI tract tells you that you're hungry, and you're going to want to go out and eat. And you really want leptin to kick in and whenever you've not, or when you whenever you don't need to go out and get hungry, basically. I mean, so whenever you see the commercials for what was The name of that lipitor or whatever it was, it was making people feel like they were. They were full. They were they were basically trying to mimic leptin.
Really?
Yeah, to make you feel full. Never saw. Not only works, but
Be around.
But regardless, grillin is the opposite. Ghrelin is the one that drives you to go and seek food to go get nourishment. But it's funny because they started to think and you could be, you could correct me on this, but ghrelin it certain instances, like for the sugar lack, that if you get low on sugar, then suddenly your brain is now programmed. Well, we'll raise ghrelin whenever our sugar load gets low, right?
Yeah. So what was so cool is that these guys looked at, usually somebody will look at one thing, but they're like, okay, our theory is this, we're going to look at the post biotic acetate and see what its effect does. And those that have higher acetate levels are showing higher insulin, higher ghrelin levels. And so then those mice became voracious. They want to eat more than what did they do? They produced more and their desire to eat the crappy sugary type stuff because the ghrelin is saying get the cheapest, easiest calories.
Yeah led to higher acid..acetate.
Yeah, wait. Just Just a side note. This is also the argument that a lot of dietitians have on why it's important to have what they call high density foods. So a refined sugar is not a high density food at all. It's short lived in terms of the satisfaction, and you're going to always want to keep consuming whereas if you eat the foods that you should eat, you the fibers and the polyphenols, etc, you you fill up and it leaves lots of work for the bacteria to produce the types of post biotics that you want.
100% so I have all these diabetic patients that struggle to lose weight, but really, it could come down to the bacteria and the bacteria that are producing acetate. I mean, maybe the future treatment. I mean, American Heart Association just got done doing this studying peripheral vascular disease. Maybe the encrinologist will start looking at changing the bacteria to help with diabetes instead of just throwing drugs at people. because quite honestly, once you get put on insulin that it's it's erases your ghrelin everybody I talked to they're just like, man, I take an insulin shot. Bodybuilders take insulin so they can eat more and their growth hormone goes up.
Yeah, kids don't do that. That's not the reason.
So diabetes, I don't care about diabetes. Nobody. My family has diabetes. It is what it is. That's what somebody out there saying, Man, this guy keeps talking about anxiety. SIBO IBS had an effect me or anybody in my family. All right, I'm telling you that. Now let's talk about blood pressure. The silent killer.
Definitely How many? Honestly, side note how many times do we have patients come through every day? We have a full load. I would say probably 20% of those on a full load day. We probably have to inform them about a blood pressure issue right or wrong?
Oh, we've seen more than 100 million people in our clinic. Yeah. Wrong. That's that's wrong. That's 100 million people have high blood pressure in the United States. Okay. Yeah, we seen 100 million feels like 100 million.
Yeah, I didn't know what that number was going. That sounded like an awful lot. But, but we do, but we do have people who for the first time ever, it they say feel fine, no meds. And then suddenly we look at their blood pressure, and it's 170 over 98. So not normal.
And I've been pre hypertensive for a long time. I've changed my diet. And you know, I'm knocking right on 49 right now. So I'm pushing 50 here, and my blood pressure is better. It continues to get better as I focus on my diet
Right?
And I've always like, Man, that just doesn't make any sense. Why would because, you know, I, you know, I'll sit there and I'll fly off the rails and cheat and pizza and stuff. Now we're going to get into some of this stuff. So the American Heart Association says it over 103 million US adults have high blood pressure.
That's a lot.
I still think that there's more people that they don't even realize.
100% because there's only what 300 I'm guessing here. 340 million people in the US something like that.
Yeah. And so high blood pressure leads to stroke, blah, blah, blah, blah, everything else, you know, it's that whole syndrome x thing. Yeah. So Oh, by the way, you know who does a really good job of explaining the whole syndrome x, the ne ne coined the phrase, it is Rob Wolf. Diabesity.
Diabesity
Diabesity. In his book, The Paleo solution, yeah, he actually describes this whole process of what I learned a syndrome x he's calling diabesity. And how once you get into this pathway, what I'm going to say is maybe this pathway, this shift is now we have a mechanism that these post biotics are actually creating this whole diabesity issue..
Wow.. they could be and this would be obviously a step in the right direction.
So do remember the whole thing that I told you about the sympathetic neuron activity so acetate and lactate get in there, their little free pass VIP card. Yeah, and then actually poke on the nerves chair and they turn on the sympathetic system. Well, researchers showed that young pre hypertensive rats exhibited leaky gut protein expression. They were pre hypertensive, and they were looking specifically at leaky gut. I don't know if it was zonulin or whatever they were looking for. But they found it before they were hypertensive. Starts in the gut..
Definitely
Crazy. Now, the more signs of leaky gut, the more sympathetic output these rats showed, increasing the permeability led to increased brain permeability. And they showed that acetate and lactate stimulated an area of the brain called the hypothalamus,
Very important master gland
Master gland super, super crucial thing. Now, this actually increased the sympathetic signals leading from the hypothalamus down and blood pressure started to rise accordingly, as asked lactate levels went up
That's a no one's really built that, that that pathway. I've never seen anybody do that.
It's, I mean, I read this and I was like, What? How are we not describing a treatment for high blood pressure, diabetes, obesity and thinking more about the our microbiome than just throwing? I mean, how many of my patients have six, seven? I mean, you take a beta blocker, what are the side effects of that fatigue, depression, erectile dysfunction, then you take calcium channel blocker, and you've got cough, and you've got ankle edema, and we're throwing this stuff, and all of a sudden, we've got rats where we can show if we decrease this. More importantly, they show that the sympathetic shift, altered the microbiome, which led to a less diverse microbiome and increase in lactate and acetate producing bacteria. One more time it got into the brain, the brain sends signals to the body. That is you're in fight or flight.
Yeah.
And because and have, you can logically try and work your way around this. But basically those same signals, tell more of those bacteria just like you talked about with the sugar..
Right
Now more of the bacteria are being signaled to grow. And now you've got a cascade of high blood pressure type stuff.
Unfortunately, it sounds like what what we're doing is building a friendly utopia for the bacteria that we don't want, right? And then they're basically telling your brain to go and get some more the food that will allow them to build more of the byproducts or the post biotics that you don't need that are going to make your problem worse. And just a side note, so overstimulation of the sympathetic nervous system. It's really funny how we're talking about diabetes, we're talking about high blood pressure, we're talking about insomnia, we're talking about anxiety, all of those things are just simply going to compound and make the same situation worse, the diabetes gets a little bit more out of control and the insulin goes up and the ghrelin goes up. I'm gonna keep eating. And by the time I keep eating and I post biotics make my anxiety level go up and I can't sleep, that's only going to perpetuate more of the same and you can only I would assume, correct that by getting the right bacteria to eat the right. the right food, so that you have the right post biotics, right?
That's exactly it. Just that easy Eric.
That's all you got to do. All right, well I guess thats it..
Mic drop spoiler.
But it just it's it's scary, though, that that quickly, you can escalate while you actually have no idea that it's happening to you. You just don't know.
You're not in control.
No you're not.
So I mean, here we have this deal with a rise in lactic acid acts like a positive feedback loop to create its own little lactic acid factory.
It's self serving. It's not in here for you
No, those bacteria, everybody We talk about an ego centric society and everything. Well, as it turns out, I'm learning more and more that bacteria are truly egocentric. Also
You gotta keep them in check.
You know, C. diff would love to just run rampant and do this. See that being a bacteria that when you wipe out other bacteria due to antibiotics, you end up with horrible diarrhea. That's something we deal with all the time. They just be they have this they throw this big party and make you really sick.. so the bacteria themselves, they have a self serving need to keep growing. They're not looking around going. I need more diversity here. Everybody wants to win. And when you have lactate producing bacteria they want to win. That goes back to the whole Satish Rao article where he gave SIBO patients probiotics, and they produce more lactate. He checked the lactic acid levels and those people that had higher lactic acid levels had higher depression and anxiety.
Damn, that's not good. That's not what you're after.
So what we're looking at here is microbial dysbiosis micro dysbiosis is the term that the natural path to use everywhere. And really what that means is a lack of diversity is not dysbiosis. It just means that there's an imbalance in your microbiome, you have too much of something and not enough of another. They showed with rats that those rats with a lack of diversity tended to have higher levels of the lactate and acetate.
And, again, not the post biotics the short chain fatty acids that we want.
So understanding that knowledge, these researchers started to look at stroke and dementia. And getting back to the brain. Yeah, so using that model, they were able to show that acid and lactate can cross the blood brain barrier, which we've already discussed. Then these guys focused on one unique thing I already discussed how they tap on the neurons and do this. Well. Something else that that these post biotics short chain fatty acids do is that they actually lope they actually dropped the local Ph. So this local drop in pH caused inflammation At the neuron level, this inflammation led to increase in certain markers of inflammation like human necrosis factor, and it causes cell death.
So just in layman's terms, why that matters is if you drop the pH and basically you are creating a more acidic environment. And just a side play, which we haven't even mentioned yet that actually creates more work for your respiratory system to basically correct that. And by you know, I'm saying because you have to blow off the acid your blood, but your blood buffering system is going to have to produce more bicarbonate just to basically take care of the neurons that are now in a more acidic environment. This is exactly why whenever you're an athlete running around, you breathe heavier, right? Because the acid formed by the activity throughout all your muscles is dumping into the bloodstream so that you can breathe out co2, well, if you're not running around, you don't really want to be dropping your pH systemically. So that's That's a big No, no, that's not what we're after.
So once you have a cell die, that leads to oxidative stress... which ultimately leads to inflammation. Those rats develop dementia.
So chronic inflammation..
Chronic inflammation. So we've always talked about chronic inflammation. This is first domino effect.
Yeah.
The first domino effect is this we're getting into a cellular level. They even took normal tensive rats, so rats with normal blood pressure, and they gave a microbial transplant fecal microbial transplants on mice that were genetically prone to have high blood pressure and strokes, okay. And the rats who received the transplant developed high blood pressure and had strokes. So watch the episode where we talk about Heli. Like once I'm getting into this, I'm like, why would we do fecal transplants without knowing all of this?
So let's break that down real quick. Basically, what you're saying if I understand correctly They took the bacteria that was somewhere else and put it in another rats colon. And they were able to replicate that these bacteria when fed with the wrong stuff being the wrong count of bacteria wrong diversity count, right? They gave off post biotics that lead to more damage to the rat itself.
So the so the rats that they euthanize when they saw that they had strokes or that they had dementia, they show that they had much higher levels of acetate and lactate, the rats that lived surprising, not surprisingly, at all, actually, now after looking at this, right, the ones that did not develop high blood pressure or have a stroke had higher levels of all short chain fatty acids, but they had higher levels of butyrate overlapped.
So they had but they had they had the right concentration. Right?
They had the right concentration.
It's not that lactate and acetate should never be produced. It's that they're they're being overproduced at the expense of what's healthy for your body.
And so one other thing one other brain disease that I want to get at and then we're actually done with these diseases. But I hope you're seeing that we have diseases that are specifically related to this.
Yeah.
So can you smell me and tell me if I Parkinson's? Hang on a second?
That is not something I can detect.
But somebody can because you sent me that article.
I did. Yeah.
Tell me about that.
Well, there is apparently a woman who has a, I can't remember what the study is you kind of put me on spot here. But basically, she was able to show all but less than 3% of the people she was able to identify disease states in them and one of them was parkins by a smell or an odor they put off which I found fascinating. She was able to accurately diagnose people by the the odor or the the pheromones or whatever it was that she detected. And then of course, you did a little bit deeper. They talk a little bit about why so..
Yeah, so as it turns out, so this woman, her husband, died of Parkinson's, and when she was in support groups, she remembers her husband smell started to change like a decade before. Then he started developing symptoms.
Oh, you know what, I'm sorry, quick shout out my youngest son Mac. He's the one who showed me an article did it
Really? .... Cool. So it's, I looked at the they believe they've discovered what molecule she's actually smelling through mass spec. But that's kind of irrelevant, because what's happening is is now I'm linking that to this. Because evidence is now showing that dementia and Parkinson's begins 10 to 20 years before the brain is actually affected.
And if I remember correctly, further down the article didn't they say they were experimenting with her to try to find alzheimers?
Correct, correct. Yeah. So everybody's like, Oh, this woman's got this magic skill. What is she's smelling?
Yeah.
Acetone when I go into ketosis.. I have acetone coming out of my breath. Right Haven't you you've actually smell different what you're breaking down. It's ketoacidosis
Severe diabetic
Or severe diabetics
fruity acetone, head on.
They have the fruity acetone..
So we definitely put off different smells and different, you know, chemicals builder. So this is interesting Parkinson's, these diseases have build up. So Parkinson's specifically has a buildup of proteins that are actually seen in the gut first. So when they look at the proteins that create the Parkinson's disease, right now, researchers are looking in the gut, and they're finding that protein buildup in the gut before it builds up in the brain.
And just so you all know that this is not made up pseudoscience, just a completely separate example, GI bleeds, going through a hospital, you can almost always tell a patient that's dealing with a GI bleed simply because I mean that that smell is unmistakable right?
Oh, yeah. I mean, I think that I think other third world doctors rely on their senses visual smell.. to really try and diagnose a patient.. And they get a little bit more deep in it kind of thing.. So that you know, there's the when I did gynecology, you did what was called With test, which is the pap smear when you try and smell a fishy odor and things like that, so we don't do that much anymore because you said it to a lab, but..
Yeah, hard to do.
So these, these diseases Parkinson's could actually develop early on. Now what's really interesting is that Parkinson's could be related to the Vegas nerve.
Parasympathetic.
Causing the inflammatory buildup of these proteins.
Interesting.
So rats given a fecal microbial transplant from a Parkinson's rat immediately showed an increase in acetate levels. Then when they followed these rats, they slowly developed motor function problems. In humans, we now realize that those people with Parkinson's have a dysbiosis I'll say it one more time. Now we're starting to look at all these chronic diseases and researchers are going let's look at their microbiome. Almost all Parkinson's people have a dysbiosis
Wow.
So people would say, Oh, well, if you have Parkinson's, you're sick. You have a dysbiosis. I'm saying no, the dysbiosis caused the Parkinson's.. we have to prevent that. Start there. So to answer in a very long winded, complex way to answer Don's question, shoot, it's so complicated. But I think we are now seeing a starting point. I think that if you keep your microbiome diverse, plenty of bacteria that can produce butyrate and other short chain fatty acids, and in my opinion, now thinking about it, that fecal transplant, getting a fecal transplant may carry more risk than we ever thought looking at these animal models. So Don's question was, Well, what do we do? Is fecal transplant good or bad and only in that we know for certain as if you have a complex microbiome, a diverse microbiome, and you feed it, what it needs, then you're going to produce the appropriate amount of post biotics, which will keep you healthy.
Yeah, well, that makes that certainly makes the most sense. And to your point where you kept resetting for people who may not have known someone who has high blood pressure, dementia, diabetes, Parkinson's, anxiety, insomnia, if you exist, where you don't know anyone else like that, thank you for making this podcast, the only thing that you do to connect with other humans, because that's impossible.
They're living in this utopia.
It's just impossible not to know someone who's at least affected by something like that. And so I mean, it's kind of crazy to think that it all comes down or it could possibly all come down to the bacteria that we have naturally inside just simply need to be fed the right things at the right times and in the right amounts. You can make The case of I don't want to look obese I said together so not don't eat fast food. Well, the truth is, you look, you have those kind of manifestations where people aren't happy and stuff like that, because that's not the food you should be eating all the time. You've got to take care of yourself. Polyphenols is an easy way to get started.
100% So, the now I'm gonna have to do a whole episode on butyrate because I went down
Well, we should though.
I started go down butor and then I found all these great articles. There's articles looking at different polyphenol supplements in the butyrate elevation that they are. Watch the plant based episode with Dr. Juan. Yeah, because he gave me his Neo greens as a sample and we showed it there. I looked at it. If he thought about this, then he's I mean, he's a super wicked smart guy in there. It's he's got probiotics, fermented, fermented vegetables, probiotics, with polyphenols in there, which means that possibly, spoiler alert, again, is just it's too much. But there's, there's there's people out there that are combining polyphenols and probiotics to produce these short chain fatty acids, right and ratios that they want.
And maybe not fully understanding why.
Not understanding why not understand if it gets absorbed, not understanding if it's a natural way to do it, I don't know. But it's at least a step in the right direction.
I'll even reverse that. The answer oftentimes, when people only add, let's just say they're only adding butyrate that's probably not the answer either. You still need the healthy ratios of butyrate along with acetate and propriate. And, and lactate, it would be odd to only produce butyrate because that will probably yield something else that nature has a great way of having Governor's on certain systems, right. So I would imagine that there's probably going to be a healthy balance a healthy ratio, which is why you want the bio diversity in your gut.
I'm sure 40 years ago, Dr. Ian Quigley, the godfather of probiotic sat there with a petri dish and went his hair stood up. And he went, Oh my gosh, this, this live bacteria is doing amazing things in the gut. And then 40 years later, we're still trying to figure out how to get probiotics to people. Because in a petri dish, it does amazing things in the human body, giving one strain and now we're up to whatever who knows. 50 strains of 50 billion units. Is it really doing anything? We don't know?
Is it even getting there?
Is it getting there? We don't know. And this could be the exact same thing. So the knee jerk reaction would be, oh, I'll just take more beer right and then I started looking at different there's a ton of different butyrate supplements much like sulfurophane where a lot of people are trying to you know, jump on the marketing bandwagon of broccoli sprouts... And so there's very few of those that are actually viable. Yeah, now now we're which broccoli is one. That's what I like to recommend Brock elite. But I am so excited because I feel like because of this podcast, because Atrantil to because of what we're learning and the scientists that I'm meeting, it's all starting to come together and truly I feel like we are changing the health landscape of anybody who purchases Atrantil to and our whole separate episode of kicked him out neuroinflammation acetate touching this and that don't even get me started on how the fatty acids in a full spectrum hemp CBD product
Sure
Cross the blood brain barrier and start mitigating some of that
Yeah
I mean if I if I had Elon Musk money and I could just sit there and look at different things. I mean, like, I want to know what what this CBD product does on acetate levels in the brain.
Yeah
And just start asking questions like that. Each one of these studies was somebody who had a question, and it just happened to be that they were looking at short chain fatty acids, the effect and the effect it had systemically and props to these people to start doing that because that's hard work.
So in short what should someone do? Who hears, okay, I need to have great bio diversity. I want to change the way that I'm approaching stuff. I want to be able to feed my new bio diverse microbiome correctly. Dr. Brown? Where would I start?
Well, just I'll tell you and I don't ever tell people to do things I don't do
Sure.
So and I don't ever tell people to stop things that I still do. So be careful what you ask. Number one, we need to increase the diversity of the microbiome. The best way to do that is to increase your fiber. So the fiber that means soluble and insoluble fiber, two different kinds of fiber one soluble mixes in water that's like Metamucil insoluble, it's like the skin of vegetables. What we are now realizing is that skin of vegetables has this other beautiful molecule called polyphenols at what makes vegetables colorful. So I try to take in a certain amount of fiber I try and I've now because I read this. I went to Carla and I went to Whole Foods and I got some steel cut organic oats. And now I'm just soaking them in the fridge. So now I have cold oats. And the reason why is oats are a resistant starch. If you cook them and make oatmeal, the way we do it, you make it more easy to digest by making a resistant starch. I'm going to increase the type of bacteria that produce more butyrate.
Wow
Yeah. So now since I've done the research on this, I wake up and I just take a couple spoons of these oats that are just soaking overnight. And now when I tell people that watch Dr. oz and stuff, they're like, yeah, overnight oats. Where were you in 88 when Oz talking about whatever he started. Like really, people were talking about that they didn't know why they were talking about now. That's the kicker. So one of the problems that I have is that if you tell me to do something, I need a mechanism of action.
Sure
If I can explain the mechanism Then it works for me.
Now I'd say that I would say that I'm open to ideas also, but I don't want to change this because you say it's great.
Exactly.
Just tell me why.
Yeah, tell me why. So, increase your fiber, increase your resistant starches. You can do the resistant starches a lot of different ways. green bananas or plantations. Lloyd is Puerto Rican. So we do a lot of plantation nice. So that's a that's a paleo friendly, definite starch.
Shout out to Bubbas sells. green bananas. That's what makes Oh, yeah, they are well designed by a guy who had Crohn's disease. Right. You talked to him? Yeah, it's so Bubbas Fine Foods, you can check them out. So if you're looking for a safe snack, there you go.
And then now I've got all these articles words, people are actually starting to look at that the American Heart Association at the beginning of the show, I talked about how they're using polyphenols to help with peripheral peripheral vascular disease. I know that one of the best ways to create post biotics and I wasn't even thinking short chain fatty acids. I was thinking more along urolithin and these complex molecules that these other scientists talk about, there was an article that actually showed a molecule similar to Atrantil had an increase in butyrate, a whole separate show, because that's going to be a, that'll have to be a two hour show about how to increase your butyrate levels
Definitely.
But the beauty is, it isn't like you're just increasing butyrate levels you're going to eat, you're going to increase the diversity of the microbiome and allow it to happen. And then ultimately, polyphenols, fibers, resistant starches, and I'm going to now go down the pathway of why so many of my patients feel better on CBD. I think there's something to do with these short chain fatty acids. I just did. I have not gone there yet, but we've got our secret weapon and she'll find something out there.
So ladies and gentlemen, if you want to start to work on making your gut a little bit more diverse and healthy, go ahead and get your soluble insoluble fibers supplement with good trustworthy polyphenols. There's nothing wrong with controlling inflammation systemically with a good CBD a good diverse whole foods diet that's really coming down to and I'm about to try your idea for overnight soaking oats I've never done that before
I just started doing it. And if you don't have, like if you're lacking diabetes, you don't have enough high blood pressure. You're not obese enough, then ignore this whole podcast.
Yeah, do whatever you want. That's awesome. That sounds great. What lots of knowledge day on the show. Thank you all so much for watching and listening, Be certain to like and share if you want to go back and check out the episodes with Heli, with Pannez, or Dr. Doug won. Just go back to gut check project.com You can find all of our episodes cataloged on there on the page this we're improving it all the time, be sure and sign up for the newsletter. Starting tomorrow, everybody who is in the KBMD health universe will be reminded of the latest published show. So if you ever get to catch up with the shows, just sign up, you'll be notified each week, every new episodes, we release it
Go to KBMDhealth.com. Right. And one of the things that I get that I see the most common is rectal bleeding. And we went through the trouble putting together a little rectal bleeding free book that So download that you get a free book. And then we can keep you updated to these shows. One of the things if you can like and share this, the more this grows, the more that we get access to scientists, the more that I can take deep dives into stuff like this. If you're still listening, thank you. This is like that person that actually reads the whole I saw some some Reddit deal with some woman got $10,000 because there was like a 10 page like one of those weird contracts for like a nothing that you're supposed to sign like, like an iTunes agreement or something. Yeah. And there was a little tiny fine print in the bottom. If you're the type of person that's reading this fine print and you send us an email and you're the first person to do it will send you $10,000 they send it $10,000 so if you're actually still listening after all that nerdy stuff that I just talked about, we can't send any money..
Be the first one in the subject line to write the word butyrate spelled correctly and you will get a free altran to bottle and CBD of your choice.
Butyrate so the first person to send in an email to.. no they have to download the book.
Yeah download download the book.
Yeah, they have to download the book title the book and then reply with a type butyrate
Yeah, type butyrate just spell it correctly. Look it up and send it to us. It'd be awesome. You be the first one you get a free Dr. Brown's signature package. Let us know if you want sentiment or natural
Does that mean I sign the box of Atrantil that the signature package
So much extra stuff you want to do its not going to work out? Thank you so much like and share like and share. Remember, this show isn't intended to treat or diagnose. If you have a health issue, be sure you go and check it out with your physician. We will see you at Episode 34 coming soon. Thank you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Although Dr Brown is a real doctor, the Gut Check project is here to inform, discuss and most of all have fun.
The show is not intended to diagnose or treat anything.
So if you have a new mole, grew and extra toe, and cant figure out that weird rash, we recommend that you go get checked out by your healthcare provider.
So sit back , free your mind, and get ready to think and step into the gut check project.
Eric Rieger
Alright guys, here the gut check project. It is now Episode 32. We have an incredible show today if you've ever suffered from ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease, or anybody that you know has ever dealt with an IBD and inflammatory bowel Disease this show is going to be incredible. We have a special guest today and let's knock off a couple of our sponsors for today we have Atrantil, you can get your own Atrantil at lovemytummy.com chock full of all natural polyphenols you will not find a more comprehensive natural collection of polyphenols to address your bloating, your IBS symptoms etc Dr. Brown you know a little bit about Atrantil.
Ken Brown
I know a little bit about it and you know what I want to do to offer everybody you said lovemytummy.com I'm going to add a little something if you want your beneficial policy and also we're going to get into that with inflammatory bowel disease Crohn's ulcerative colitis, just put /KBMD you'll save some money.
Eric Rieger
Save some money go to love my tummy calm /KBMD Dr. Brown is exactly right. Treat yourself treat your gut treat your life Atrantil your bloating relief, it's what they do. Second thing of course here at KBMD health we have the gut check project at KBMD health we also have KBMD CBD and you can go to KBMD health.com and find your own physician vetted co2 all natural extracted, coa of everything that comes out and basically anything that you want out of a CBD we've got Dr. Brown
Ken Brown
Well the thing is is that everybody's kind of buzzing about CBD and I know even the Crohn's and colitis community people are talking about it but it's been studies have shown that over 80% of the CBD that people grab, don't have anything that is actually on the label. And what that means is you don't really take anything or you could be taking olive oil or whatever. Time and time again today today we treated people this morning and they said wow, I was on like three different CBDs and when we started the kBm the health CBD I'm actually noticing something
Eric Rieger
Happens all the time. So if you want reputable CBD, used clinically by gastroenterologist, check out KBMDhealth.com. Get your own CBD today and use code GCP to save 20% on your purchase
Ken Brown
20%
Eric Rieger
20% Next, our final sponsor of today's show is going to be unrefined bakery. If you want to get gluten free keto friendly paleo vegan, they've got it if you've ever wondered I need to adhere to a special diet and I'm afraid that the food's gonna taste bad guess what unrefined bakery makes great food get just so happens to fit your special diet
Ken Brown
You know it's nuts every patient that we had this morning
Eric Rieger
Yeah
Ken Brown
Knows of Ann & Taylor
Eric Rieger
They definitely do
Ken Brown
They love them like these like they are true celebrities watch that episode. It is awesome unrefined bakery, gluten free. They can do all the other stuff just watch a show it's it's fun
Eric Rieger
Based here in the Dallas Fort Worth area you do not have to live here to get your own unrefined bakery goods. You can actually go to unrefinedbakery.com use code gut check, and you can have yourself some 20% off I believe on your first order and then right 20% off anyhow unrefined bakery. com use code Check, save some money on your first order. So make it a big one,
Ken Brown
One impromptu sponsor.. and just keep watching the rest of the show to figure out why.
Eric Rieger
Yes
Ken Brown
If you are a reader and you enjoy novels, go look at a book called in the end written by Dr. Michael Weisberg. In the end. He is an honorary sponsor of this show and for reasons that you will soon see later on.
Eric Rieger
Yes, absolutely. As I hinted at before we got to the sponsors. This is a dedicated show to ulcerative colitis and Crohn's. And we're going to be visiting with a special someone who will tell us a little bit about her story, her journey, hopefully to relate to anybody that either yourself or a loved one on what it's like to face these kinds of challenges, but Weisberg is a fantastic supporter of the ulcerative colitis and Crohn's foundation. He knows a lot and he's, it's awesome. And he has a book like that available. So ..
Ken Brown
In the end
Eric Rieger
In the end
Ken Brown
Honorary sponsor.
Eric Rieger
All right, let's start The project. So now we just wait a little bit and then we're just gonna start talking. And I don't want to mispronounce your last name. Okay. Okay. eyeball 321
Eric Rieger
All right, we are here on the gut check project. It is now episode number 32. I am here today with your normal host, Dr. Kenneth Brown, and we've got a special guest. Paneez Kahkpour. Oh, you know what we had her and now she can talk.
Paneez Kahkpour
Am I back? Hello Everyone. Nice to see y'all.
Ken Brown
Well Paneez has been my patient for over 12 years. What do we have 14 something like that.
Eric Rieger
Awesome. Thank you so much for coming Dr. Brown. You have a monikor for her already that you just annoyed her with. What is that?
Paneez Kahkpour
12-13
Ken Brown
Something like that I've always referred to her as the Persian princess. And so she is the she's Dallas's own Persian princess to the end here to the Persian community. This represents you My life the Persian princess. So sweet. She went to Iran of what about three years ago and brought me back a hand painted? What was that? It was art, but it told a story.
Paneez Kahkpour
Yeah, it was. I'm trying to remember what it was. I'm pretty sure it was. Maybe it's like an old fairy tale. It's like a couple. I think it's called Laylee Imagine. I think it's their story, and it's the picture of them.
Ken Brown
Wow. So.. really beautiful. I took a picture of it and send it to my friend Reza, who's who's a gastroenterologist in Florida, whose Persian also and he goes that's that's really expensive. Be very careful with it was like,Oh, okay.
Eric Rieger
You're hanging out the window of your car.
Ken Brown
Using it as a fly swatter
Eric Rieger
Trying to direct traffic in Denver.
Ken Brown
Yeah I was. Let's go over here. These Atrantil ads Don't stick on it at all.
Eric Rieger
So you've had Crohn's Correct, yes. For how long?
Paneez Kahkpour
16 years
Eric Rieger
16 years, you've been a Crohn's patient. And today, I think that what we really want to do is get your perspective on what it was like to be diagnosed to learn about what it was. What led you to go seek help in the first place? So back at the clock a little bit. And what did you first experience that drove you to go? In fact, you didn't go to Ken first you went to another gasterologist.
Paneez Kahkpour
I was. I saw pediatric gi doctor in the beginning, I was 15 at the time, all right. Yeah, I just had all the symptoms. I couldn't eat anything anymore. I was just constantly going to the restroom. And every time I went to a doctor or you know, General doctor, they said I had the flu. They'd give me antibiotics. Send me on my way. A couple days later, I'd be feeling terrible again. And that lasted several months. I went to the ER multiple times to get IVs, but nothing seemed to help. It was it wasn't until it was probably my like sixth or seventh ER visit and my grandma was like, You're not going anywhere you need to stay here. Someone needs to see you. I called an old pediatrician of mine. His name was Dr. Shams and he ended up. I gave him the symptoms over the phone and he said, I think I know what you may have. Let me call in a specialist. I was hospitalized at medical city Plano and then did a colonoscopy. And here we are.
Eric Rieger
lLet me ask you. So you said you're 15 .. So freshman high school.
Paneez Kahkpour
I yeah, I that would be freshmen
Eric Rieger
So as a freshman in high school going through this, I mean, your peers that age adolescence, what is it like trying to navigate that you internally you already know that you don't feel normal? So what were you having to do to?
Paneez Kahkpour
I wasn't ever eating lunch. I you know, everyone thought Something's wrong with her because she's not eating. And at that time, you know, it's something super embarrassing. You don't know what's happening with you. And so it's not something I really talked about. Just because I, I didn't know it was happening, and I didn't have anyone to really talk to at the time. And it wasn't until I was diagnosed. You know, when someone finds out you have something they know a friend of a friend. And I ended up speaking to a girl who was also someone who has Crohn's disease, and she really helped guide me kind of through the initial process of everything, and it was very, very helpful.
Eric Rieger
Wow. So when once you found her and so at this point, you probably found her after you've been officially diagnosed. Yes, correct. Yes. So what was it like? I mean that it doesn't sound like it, looking back 16 years, but there's probably at the time seemed like an eternity of not knowing
Paneez Kahkpour
Oh, yeah.
Eric Rieger
So what was that like?
Unknown Speaker
And it was, it was very hard. You know, when you're young, all your friends are doing all these fun extracurricular activities and you just don't have the energy Because I just, you know, was constantly sick. It was very difficult, and very, very lonely. Even though I had someone who had some experience, it was still it was just that one person who wasn't who didn't even live here. So it was pretty difficult.
Ken Brown
You said a word right there that I think this resonates with a lot of my patients, you felt very lonely. The Psychology of a disease like this is unimaginable for you. And for your loved ones. Would you just describe the loneliness a little bit?
Paneez Kahkpour
You know your entire family, the ones who know and who really understand are there for you, but I mean, they only know so much. They can only help so much because they can only empathize to a certain degree. And so, you know, when you just don't have anyone to talk to it feels really difficult to try to even begin like know where to begin and who were to go who to talk to, but I was able to find some people And find my way through the Crohn's and colitis foundation that took me a few years to even find I had no idea about it. No one told me anything.
Ken Brown
Why did it take so long to find the Crohn's or colitis foundation?
Paneez Kahkpour
You know, I just don't know if it was back then it was still something super new, you know, no one really talked about it, it. It's even still now it there's a stigma. It's, it's embarrassing. It's gross. So no one really talks about it. But it took me several years until I knew that there was such a thing as the Crohn's and colitis foundation. But after it took me a lot of googling, lots of lots of googling until I was able to find it.
Eric Rieger
So but leading up to that you you get this diagnosis and as you're trying to educate yourself and you haven't found the foundation yet. What type of changes did your pediatric gastroenterologist ask for you to make? What were you? Did you have difficulty with compliance? What was it like to step out of there and say I've got this diagnosis and now kind of have an idea of what I'm going to do. What How'd you handle that?
Paneez Kahkpour
I mean, it was hard. You're 15 and you, you know, don't, you're not usually on some type of regimen. You just kind of live your life as normal as can be. But when with this change, I was taking 15 pills a day, when I was barely even taking a Tylenol before that, you know, I struggled taking pills. And then yeah, he just told me I had to, you know, watch what I eat, see what my triggers are. Beyond this, you know, diet of pills, you know, it's pretty much I was what I was consuming and so my entire day was spent taking medication and so I didn't really have time to have friends really go out and do anything because I was at home taking medication or going to bed.
Ken Brown
I it's it's weird because I smile when you say this because I've seen you progress over these years and become this and tremendous advocate, super. I mean, healthy you you radiate this energy right now. And that is to bring so much hope to a parent that has a child who was recently diagnosed. And that's what I want this episode to be about your story. What I love hearing the questions that Eric is asking you are the wait a minute What is this because as a gastroenterologist, and this is probably what you experienced, it's like, Look, this is your disease. It's either 5% no seniors all sort of, these are our options. Where do we go from here? He's asking life questions. He has an 18 year old and a 16 year old. Yeah, it's Max 16
Eric Rieger
Eh two weeks
Ken Brown
Two weeks Okay, it's getting real close. So he's asking it as a parent Yeah, well what happened this and that. I'm listening to this and I'm like, I asked it as a clinician. So I always keep going, I love I love where you go with this.I love it love it
Paneez Kahkpour
It took me many years to get here. It was definitely a bumpy road and I had lots of highs high and low moments. But you know, right now I consider it being a really high moment. I feel good. I'm in a good place. But you know, with all the struggles goals and all the things I had to get through with, you know, taking medication every day having to be doing IVs every six weeks like that was insane like, what 15 year old does that you know like that's it was a whole new territory.
Eric Rieger
So making a change. You talked about that he said, watch what you eat and pay attention to your triggers. My wife was recently diagnosed with celiac disease and for her there's, there's an interface, right? We used to enjoy just sipping on a cold beer every now and then that and that's gone. So that's not the end of the world. But the changes obviously for her are more stark when you family gets together or you want to go on a road trip. There's just certain things that were cut out what was it like to you to discover? These are my trigger foods? These are the things I can't do. I've got my circle of friends that may or may not fully understand what I'm dealing with. How did you integrate back to I've got at some point you're gonna get a crossroads I gotta get my social life back in.
Paneez Kahkpour
Right.
Eric Rieger
So what did you do?
Paneez Kahkpour
Well, first I educated all my friends. That's the big step because if they don't know what you're going through, if they don't understand what the disease is and they have Zero empathy for you. They don't really understand
Ken Brown
What did you say to them?
Paneez Kahkpour
Well, I have Crohn's disease and they look at me guys go cross, like what is that? I'm like, well, you know, it's a digestive disease. I try to use words as simple as I can for them to understand. I'm like, basically, I can't eat lots of things because my body rejects it. And half the time I say, if you want to know more, just go Google it because I don't want to get into the nitty gritty, all the things I just go look it up. But that that helped. And then finding out which friends were, you know, there for you and which friends were not that was really helpful. And then with diet changes, and just lifestyle changes, I had to I learned that had to be present for the things that could be present for and if I couldn't, then I had to listen to my body and say no, and really just crossing my fingers and hoping that my my friends would be empathetic to that
Eric Rieger
So for Paneez. Think about the ones Small advantage that she did have was turning her friends to Google. Because think of someone just a decade before that having this type of disease trying to share that experience with their new diagnosis with their friends, like, go to the library and look whatever up if you can. And thats just not going to happen.
Ken Brown
As an adult doctor, I have the advantage of sitting down with somebody that has either been handed off to me by our pediatric doctors .. had has some incredible ones in that Whitney Kendall Brown, john Baker, jack and they've got incredible doctors. So I get the pre prepared family. And now at this stage of my career, my patients are their, their children are starting to show up we're seeing more of this disease. So when I said you have what did you say because I don't know how much to vomit on somebody.
Paneez Kahkpour
Yeah.
Ken Brown
And well, quite honestly, when I met you when you came into the hospital as a flare And the only thing I was thinking back on my Paneez on and she'd been my patient for a long time. And you're an incredible patient, you do everything that you're that you're supposed to do, and you're an advocate, we're going to get into all of that about how you've been giving back, and how important people like you are coming on the show and doing this and being part of the Crohns Colitis society. I remember one thing I remember your mom crying. That's all I remember about the whole impatient experience, because it was too much.
Eric Rieger
Well, maybe, maybe she maybe your mom was curious about the challenges it was going to be to you. And I'm going to ask you about that in a second. But the second, the second thing I was kind of curious about that may lead into why her mom would would cry because I think that that's anybody cares for the kids going to be upset. But what was it that the physician said would happen? If you didn't make these appropriate changes? And know what, what did you begin to learn the risks would be if you didn't become a compliant patient, because at some point, for some patients, it doesn't matter. They just kind of like I don't really care. I'm just gonna keep living and yeah suffer the consequences. That's not the route that you took. So what did you hear that made you decide? I'm gonna do this.
Paneez Kahkpour
It was mainly how I felt. I didn't want to feel terrible anymore. I was very tired. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. You know, that's what I remember telling myself when I was really young, as I'm tired of feeling this way. And my doctors at the time, they just said, Listen, if you're not going to do this, you're not going to get better. You're just going to get worse. You're going to have to have surgeries, you're going to have to do all these other things. And mainly, the surgery is what really scared me. Especially being so young, because most people don't have to go through that stuff. But it was mainly just really not wanting to feel that way anymore. And I must say there was a period of my time where I wasn't compliant. And that's when I met you. And that was really what changed everything for me is because a doctor changed my medication. And I didn't really take it because it was a pill. I was on IV before and then it changed. And I got super sick and I was in the big, big flares when I met you. And after that, I was like, I never want to feel like this again, like it was not worth it.
Eric Rieger
Was the risk of a collective mean or anything else like that kind of on your radar? Did you think that that might ever happened to you?
Paneez Kahkpour
Thats always in there like the backburner. I always think that like in the back of my mind, like there's always a chance for all of that.
Eric Rieger
Sure.
Ken Brown
Yeah. So let's, for everybody else that's listening this not familiar that. I mean, our audience is getting pretty broad right now. And for those people that don't know what Crohn's is, that's why I wanted to say, what did you tell your friends what Crohn's is? And you said, I couldn't eat certain things.
Paneez Kahkpour
Right.
Ken Brown
Let me rephrase it now that you're, you've had it for a few years. What would you tell people what Crohn's is?
Paneez Kahkpour
I would just say it's a digestive disease is an autoimmune disease. And so basically, my body doesn't know what's happening. So it's attacking itself. And with that comes all these terrible side effects.
Eric Rieger
Yeah.
Ken Brown
That pretty much sums it up.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, definitely.
Ken Brown
That is beautiful, everybody Makes it too complex that So you went from. I'm talking so what you are gifted with is the ability to understand what your peer will will will hear which is I can't say automated. I can't say all this. I'm just going to say what I struggle with as a doctor is how much do you want to hear about this? Right? So when you were 15, you said like, the bottom line is I just can't eat certain things, and I may get sick. Now you're like, Look, here's the deal. Yeah, my body's attacking my own intestines. That's what Crohn's is. We're gonna leave it at that.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, definitely. So do you want to get into to mom? Because this is something that just for the audience, this is something before you even got here Paneez that came was like, the thing I never forgot is how resilient Paneez was and how much your mom apparently and I've never met her but was concerned about your future.
Ken Brown
So we each every single episode regrow and we we find new ways we find new science and I become a better doctor because of it. I mean Eric sees the patients he puts them all to sleep. And when I asked you to come on the show is because of the emotional aspect of being a parent. It wasn't so much that you because you're amazing. I mean, like you persevered and we're going to get to the Oasis camp where you've been a counselor, we're going to get to the fact that you're a speech pathologist for underprivileged autistic kids with so you are up here. I just always thought, did your mom know you were going to do that when you were diagnosed?
Paneez Kahkpour
You know? I don't think so. I mean, you have all the hopes but there was a time where the disease was all that I was and that very much defined defined me and my life. And I think that was a big struggle for her. Because you never want to see your child sick and in a hospital bed with hooked up to all these wires and IVs. And that's just a terrible site. She struggled a lot. My entire family did. My grandmother, my brother, my dad, but a lot my mom because she was my main caretaker, she was there for every step of the way. But I don't think she ever thought that I'd be doing all these great things and being, you know, self sufficient.
Ken Brown
It's a story of perseverance. It's a story of giving back. It's a story of sharing and caring and doing this kind of thing. It's so we were at the Crohn's and colitis annual gala, where my partner, Dr. Mike Weisberg was being honored as Person of the Year and gave an incredible touching speech, or keynote speech, I should say, where I thought it was just I mean, I admire public speaking, because just like you're doing right now, being on a mic is not so easy sometimes, but you're crushing it.
Eric Rieger
Well, not only is he a gastroenterologist, didn't he? Didn't you tell me once before that his one of his kiddos has RBD of some kind?
Ken Brown
Yes. So leading it up to this, and I want to ask a favor of you Paneez because it's going to take a few minutes. So I actually called Dr. Weisberg Dr. Mike winesburg last night and I said, Hey, I'm gonna bring a Crohn's patient on and I know that your son had Crohn's because you discussed it in your keynote speech. And I'll tell you what, I've worked with him for 17 years, and I had no idea this was going on. And so it was like, it's like the duck with the, with the flippers, right? You got to keep your game face on go to work, just like you've probably done a million times. Yep. You feel like, you know what, and you're
Paneez Kahkpour
Pushing through
Ken Brown
Push through. I got to tell you that. I'm just a quick side note, before we get back to that really quick. Crohn's patients. I have to tell them that they're sick. They're like, No, no, no, I'm good. I've been worse, i've been worse. They're tough as nails like Crohn's people just like at some point, they just start sucking it up and they're like, No, I'm just gonna deal. Screw you. I'm not I feel sick, but I'm sick of being sick.
Paneez Kahkpour
Yeah, you've done that to me. Actually, before
Ken Brown
I have. I keep trying to make her sicker than what she is. I'm like your bloodwork.
Paneez Kahkpour
I know I remember one time I was I was very, is during my second flare and I came in to see you. You had my bloodwork and I was, you know, I dressed up for the day trying to make myself feel good. You know, if you look good, you feel good type of thing. And you made me walk to the emergency to the hospital and it put a gown on because you're like, you're very sick. I didn't know it because I was like, I'm fine. I'm strong. I got this. And I wasn't.
Ken Brown
So when I called Mike last night, I was I just wanted like, hey, what was it like being the parent of Crohn's patient and so as it so happens, Dr. Weisberg, whom I admire very much, he's been my partner for years he was awarded Person of the Year for the Crohn's and colitis society. He is also an award winning author of two novels, the hospitalist and in the end that we discussed as an honorary and rather than just sit there and throw, you know, two lines Oh, it's it's tough being a parent of a..wrote a little bit and if you guys would humor me, give me just about five minutes. This experience is something that I want every parent to share. If you have a sick kid, I would like people to realize, because what he showed here and he just wrote this in an email, and I read it this morning and I went, holy cow, so you wrote it last night. So I'm going to read it. And this is from Dr. Weisberg verbatim no changes
Eric Rieger
All right.
Ken Brown
When I think back 13 years to when my son Reed was diagnosed with Crohn's disease, my mind flooded with vivid scenes and emotions. I will try to relate some of them to you in the next few minutes. Reed had never been a very active child. He was never one to ask to go out to play football or ride his bike. We just assumed that he was a laid back kid, a cerebral kid who enjoyed playing on the computer and playing video games more. At age 12. We decided To send him to sleepaway camp, which is not Oasis, a traditional camp sleepaway camp for a month over the summer, along with his nine year old brother Brent, in order to go, Reed had to have a camp physical, which my wife and I thought was routine. I was working that night when my wife called me and told me that the physical exam revealed that Reed hadn't grown an inch in the past year, and had actually lost two pounds. Plus bloodwork showed that he was severely anemic. I felt guilty that I had not thought of this as a cause of Reeds easy fatigue ability and avoidance of strenuous activity. But as I thought about it more I realized that night that Reed may have Crohn's disease. I had suffered from a related disease called Iritis, which is Crohn's disease of the eyes. And my sister had been diagnosed with Crohn's several years before. I knew that chromes presented and reads it Group and that all his symptoms fit this diagnosis at 730. That night I drove frantically to the pediatricians office wanting answers and I pounded on the doors of the locked offices for 20 minutes until I realized that it was futile. Since I was a gastroenterologist treating Crohn's patients, I knew what a devastating disease it was. And I became terrified. When I got home that night, I personally examine Reed and found that he had an anal fissure, which he hadn't told anyone. He'd been having rectal bleeding read younger brother went to summer camp alone that summer because Reed was too sick to go. My wife was too upset to drive Brent to the airport, so she stayed at home with read while I drove Brent and dodged all the other parents questions about why Reed wasn't going. I met my wife in a park in between our home and office one day at lunchtime, and we just sat talked, held hands and cried. We had no idea how extensive and severe Reed's disease was. But as his parents, we felt so sad for him and what he had been going through and what the future would entail. I personally felt tremendous guilt. I felt that I had given my son this disease and it was my fault that he was sick. I talked to my wife and several friends who told me that if I took all the blame for Reed's illness that I must also take all the credit for his admirable traits, such as his intelligence, his sense of humor, and his willingness to work hard to achieve things. For a very long time. These arguments did nothing to assuage my guilt, and it was only after Reed felt better that I quit being so hard on myself. We took Reed gastroenterologist who did his colonoscopy while I stood in the endoscopy room watching, I saw all the damage the Crohns said done to Reed's intestines on the telly Vision screen as a scope made its way around the colon. Afterwards, I had to go to work and even though I felt depressed and upset and guilty, I never missed a day of work or miss treating a patient due to my grief. Reed was started on enamoran and we waited for him to get better.
Ken Brown
Instead of getting better Reed worsened and he had more fatigue and high fevers his liver test went through the roof the Emoran was stopped just as we left for a family reunion on Amelia Island in Florida. I talked to his gastroenterologist the night before we left and he told me it was okay for Reed to go, but to take him to the hospital first for two sets of blood cultures. I drove Reed at tea at 10pm to my hospital and had blood cultures done. The trip to Amelia Island was a disaster. Reed was sick had high fevers the whole time, and I finally found a doctor in the box where they were willing to give him some antibiotics. Reed love to fish but the day of our deep sea fishing trip he was sick the entire time he lay in the boats cabin and vomited into a pail where he lay. I could go on with memories forever overall, until we took read to see Marla Dubinsky and IBD expert Los Angeles. He was constantly sick with pain, fever, diarrhea and anemia. Marla did testing put them on Remicade, which he took for six months until developing an anaphylactic reaction. I was scoping at the time that he had this in the same building I was so I had to run and see my son go through an anaphylaxis reaction. I had Remicade stopped and Dr. Dubinsky switched into humera, which he was on along with methotrexate for 12 years. He stopped the methotrexate last year and is now only on humera shots every two weeks. It was hard giving my son a shot every two weeks, but he was so brave and never once complained. I could tell you that I felt depressed devastated and guilty, and that the light in my life had been turned off. That is until Reed started getting better. Boy did he ever he started to grow and gain weight started having a physique that resembled his classmates instead of a skeleton. He went into remission grew to a normal height and weight. This summer he will graduate from medical school and start a residency in internal medicine. I am extremely proud of all he has accomplished but even more proud of the person he is. He never complained, never cried why me, but instead has met each challenge head on, and fought until he won. When I asked him why he wanted to be a doctor. He told me that he wanted to be like me and help make people better. He wanted to be a healer. The light in my life is back on and I am certain that I will be alive the day, a cure for the diseases is found an impromptu thought by Dr. Michael Weisberg when I just said What's it like being the parent of a Crohn's kid?
Eric Rieger
What why so short? Why no detail?
Ken Brown
There's a reason why his books are so good.
Eric Rieger
Now seriously, Dr. Weisberg, thank you so much for the submission that's it that's an incredible story.
Paneez Kahkpour
Yeah.
Eric Rieger
How do you think your your mom would relate to that?
Paneez Kahkpour
100% like the feeling of guilt I think that my mom and my father felt that for many years and I still think they sometimes do still to this day you know, I don't think that ever really goes away. But yeah, the the guilt the depression just feeling helpless that you can't do anything for your child.
Eric Rieger
Did your parents have to watch you try like we've seen a lot of Crohn's patients do the the drug hopping from Enamoran to Remicade to humera etc. Till you finally found some mix. It works for you and then I mean, did you did you have to endure anything like that?
Paneez Kahkpour
Well, luckily, no, not really. I was on a bunch of like I was on Enamoran and all these other things when I was first diagnosed, but I was also started on Remicade, and I've pretty much been on Remicade ever since I took a year off, and that's when I met Dr. Brown because I wasn't complying with the medication I was taking, but I've been able to go back and Remicade and that's pretty much all I've ever really been on. Luckily, knock on wood.
Ken Brown
One of the coolest things here is in we forget we take the burden of everything but the fact that Dr. Weisberg noted that his friends and family and his wife said, hey, there's a lot of great traits. There's a lot of great traits do. I mean, it's so hard as a parent to go I mean, except for Eric every time Gage scores, thats my son. That's me out there.
Ken Brown
But it's so funny because his parents, that's what we do as parents is we just say What did I do wrong? How could I have changed something Because my child may be sick and I don't think it stops at Crohn's or colitis I think it you know anything juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. I don't want to get into the, you know the cancers and things like that everybody says what could I have done different and it was fascinating to think that it's exactly right the same characteristics that Reed, developed, or at least had all along allowed him to now he's gonna be a bass doctor, a real badass doctor, and I've met him and he's taller than me. I mean, he's a stud.
Eric Rieger
I live vicariously through everyone I know.
Eric Rieger
Nice.
Ken Brown
Yeah, you met him at the Crohn's and colitis foundation didn't?
Paneez Kahkpour
actually knew him through camp Oasis actually.
Ken Brown
Oh, we need what is camp Oasis says,
Paneez Kahkpour
Well, Camp Oasis is a camp for kids with IBD Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis to come for about a week to just live like a normal kid and have fun at camp. It's probably the best thing I do in my life every year. I've been going for I think about seven years are so best time of my life.
Ken Brown
I thought your doctor visits for me with the best thing?
Paneez Kahkpour
No, Yeah, that's it. That's like neck and neck.
Eric Rieger
So, Camp Oasis, if I remember correctly, there are 12 states that have a location that routinely host these kiddos with you see your Crohns. And then I think the one here in Texas is what outside of Bruceville?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, now it's, um, it wasn't Bruceville and now it's some place called. I'm not sure. You know, Texas, so many little town. Sure. Not really sure. But yeah, it's some it's like two hours outside of Dallas.
Eric Rieger
Okay, nice. Yeah. And so, but it's directly affiliated with the Crohn's and colitis Foundation, correct?
Paneez Kahkpour
Yes.
Eric Rieger
And so, supporting the camp oasis. It's, you're going to have the latest research, the latest techniques, the the best, quote, unquote, training for a kiddo to learn how to deal with the situation right?
Paneez Kahkpour
Well, you know, they have it's basically a week where They can feel like they are heard or noticed. They have other friends there who also have the same disease they have right. And most of the counselors who are there, not all of them but most of them also have IBD. And so it's just like everything you could possibly want in life and a week.
Ken Brown
So somebody feels comfortable. They say my belly hurts that's..
Paneez Kahkpour
Oh, yeah, we have a whole med staff everything like you were mentioning we have we have a whole med staff nurses, child life specialists that called everything every everything they would possibly need. They have their
Eric Rieger
So would you say by attending a camp like that having this disease affliction that you began to learn? I can have a normal life.
Paneez Kahkpour
Yeah
Eric Rieger
These people are making it or I remember when I felt like that you probably serve as a mentor if you just happen to be further along than somebody.
Paneez Kahkpour
Definitely. I mean, I feel I wish I went to camp as a kid. But I didn't so I'm lucky to be able to go as an adult. But yeah, they they see all these adults doing all these wonderful things like Reed going to medical school, and they see Oh, I can do that if they can do And they have the same disease I have, and they have had surgery, they've done all the things I've done, I can do the same thing. And its wonderful.
Ken Brown
What was your first year like as a counselor, because it had to bring back a lot of memories of what you experienced.
Unknown Speaker
I mean, it was, it was sad, in a sense, because you just see all these kids, like, I don't remember myself, you know, as a child, like dealing with all these things. We just see them and you just see how strong they are and how happy they are and how they, like you say they persevere. And I'm like, how even though I was the same, but I just, you see, and you're like, it's incredible. And every year I go I cry because some kid says something super motivating and inspirational. I'm like, I don't know if I'm doing anything for you. Because you're the one helping me like feel like I'm there to live a better life. It's all it's all them. It's really wonderful. But yeah, the first year was intimidating. I didn't know anyone. I'm meeting all these people with Crohn's and colitis, like that's super cool. But at the end of the day, you you leave with a family and we've all been together ever since.
Eric Rieger
That is awesome. How many times have we heard things on this show with from guests that giving is the best getting that you can do?
Ken Brown
Absolutely.
Eric Rieger
I mean, it really is.
Ken Brown
Absolutely. When I'm curious as there's a doctor, you said that there's a doctor that runs this every year?
Paneez Kahkpour
Well, yeah. So it's, it's the Crohns and Colitis foundation sets it up, and then they have a pediatric doctor come along, just because if there's a flare if a child needs medication, we they handle all the medicine, everything. They they do it all and yeah, there's a pediatric gi who comes along and does everything.
Ken Brown
Just the whole idea of just being a normal kid, and still experiencing your normal symptoms. And it's not like blown out of proportion. It's not like overreact. It's like Okay, come on over here. Let's go over. Yeah, you're not going home. We're gonna we're gonna make you feel better.
Paneez Kahkpour
Yeah
Ken Brown
That's cool.
Eric Rieger
Absolutely. And you can I noticed on the website, that Most people can volunteer if they wish to. And you can donate, obviously, directly to the camp through the Crohn's and colitis foundation. So it's obviously an incredible resource for people who are young and newly diagnosed.
Ken Brown
I'm going to put you on the spot. But it was there ever a time that you ever were this I'm really put you on the spot because because I think it's like a healthcare provider if I'm in a camp with people that potentially can get sick on me, you know, I'm like, worst case scenario person. So were you ever in a position where you felt that you were worried for somebody?
Paneez Kahkpour
Um, yes and no, yes. Because they weren't feeling well, or they, you know, have been vomiting a lot or something, you know, because a lot, it's in the summer. So, there's a lot of heat. But no, because we haven't fully staffed with all these smart doctors and nurses who come and help the kids. So like, there was never a time where you're like, Oh, this is not going to be good because they're fine. They're in safe hands.
Ken Brown
That's awesome.
Eric Rieger
That is awesome. Well, what can people do if they wanted to connect with someone from Camp Oasis? And let's say that they have a child that they want to get enrolled, but they may not live close, they're a particular resource or a way for them to get in touch with counselors to do that?
Paneez Kahkpour
I would say just going to the website would be the best starting point.
Ken Brown
Crohn's or colitis or the Oasis?..
Paneez Kahkpour
Because that will take you to the camp, website. And m depending on where you live, you can see where the closest camp is and then I think there's always an email or phone number for the director who like sets up sets it up for every state.
Ken Brown
Man i'm sitting here thinking I'm just like, wow, it's, it would be really cool for like, I'm hearing this like I learned about Camp Oasis from you. Yeah. And I'm like, Oh, I I feel like like a jerk like I have not been involved sooner than that. And then I went home and talked to my kids lil bit about it. They're just like, Wow, that's great. And I'm sure that there's a lot of different camps for different illnesses.
Eric Rieger
Oh, yeah
Ken Brown
I didn't realize that there's a lot of people giving back all over.
Eric Rieger
That brings me. That brings up my next question. I'm glad you brought that up because not that far from here for juvenile diabetics, there's a place called Camp Sweeney. And when people go and that was it, I was a maintenance man there when I was in high school, but..
Ken Brown
He was the janitor.
Paneez Kahkpour
Come a far way.
Ken Brown
She's over here going, Wow, you've come a long way. I had Crohns almost died and I'm doing this but you..
Eric Rieger
I guess you got out of your truck. But the thing that I found kind of interesting is almost and I'm kind of curious if it's the same for for camp oasis. The first time that someone came to camp Sweeney, sometimes there was a chance. They were reluctant to get out. They didn't really know why they were going. They really didn't know what they were going to get out of it. They kind of had to be talked into it by their parents. And then when they got there You saw it within the first 24 hours. Oh my gosh, these are my These are my people. Yeah, they understand what I'm doing so I guess I'm just saying that for someone who may be new to camp Oasis, you have a kiddo you get them get them inoculated, get into around and to talk to someone.
Eric Rieger
That's awesome.Well..
Paneez Kahkpour
Yeah I mean, it's super helpful. I, I, I've seen kids who are newly diagnosed come into camp for the first time crying because they're like, I don't know anything. I don't know anyone. Like I'm super nervous. They leave crying, but not be because they're happy that they met all these friends, and that they're sad to leave, they don't want to leave. And so everyone starts crying. What are they? It's, it's the best. I mean, you know, whoever wants to apply to be a counselor. I think for the Texas camp, it's open. So come hang out.
Ken Brown
Well, no, we have a whole new topic that I want to get into. Oh, yes, because I've known Paneez the Persian princess for a long time.
Eric Rieger
This is..Eric has no idea what you know.
Ken Brown
Yeah. And I've watched Well, she has gone on to not only be a camp Oasis, Counselor, but she's doing something which I think is fascinating. It's huge. And now we're going to talk about something else. That is a passion of mine, which is autism.
Eric Rieger
Oh, yeah.
Ken Brown
Yeah.
Eric Rieger
So I did know that sorry.
Ken Brown
Well, you give a little background about your education. And now what you're doing because if you want to talk about the one two punch of giving back, Camp Oasis, and wow, that was just the jab. Now we got the right cross coming. This is cool
Paneez Kahkpour
You know, gotta do a lot. So I actually I went to University of North Texas here in Denton, wonderful school. I studied speech language pathology, pathology, audiology, so I have an undergrad degree in that. So technically, right now, I am a speech pathology assistant, but I'm working on my grad school applications at the moment.
Ken Brown
You speak better than us. So you're, you're the master in this room.
Eric Rieger
Thank you. Pretty good.
Ken Brown
Pretty good. Speak English real good.
Paneez Kahkpour
You know, lots of practice. But yeah, so I work with most of the kids I work with right now have autism. And it's it's quite a job. It's actually pretty fun.
Ken Brown
But it's not just autism. It's actually autism for a lot of underprivileged kids.
Paneez Kahkpour
Yes. for underprivileged kids.
Ken Brown
Yeah. And so what? So So Penny's and I were talking about this, because autism, I'm a huge advocate of the gut brain access, and that if you heal the gut and you feed the gut, then it will heal the brain and we got into a discussion so you asked all those questions at the beginning of the show. What did your pediatric gastroenterologist do? What did you recommend for diet recommendations? What did he do this and that? So I'm sitting with Paneez in my office and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, that's so cool. Can you get them to go gluten free? Can you get them to go Whole Foods? And she's like, Well, let me tell them my patient population first. Yeah, has described what the typical person lifestyle is and They're, they're home life.
Paneez Kahkpour
I mean, most of them are lower income. And so with that brings just difficulty and buying just healthier foods, and having access to a lot of stuff. I was talking to a parent actually, who had to take a child to the doctor, and they waited eight hours. So I'm like, they still have access to a lot of things. And so they're not eating as well as they should, or they may not be doing the things that you know, you and I have easy access to. So that's what makes a little bit harder.
Ken Brown
So, a couple episodes ago, Episode 28, Doug Blonde was on here and I challenged him with the same thing he is in. He's a medical doctor that it's an advocate for whole food plant based. And I said well, the problem with that is is that when you say whole food plant based you think of going to Whole Foods and spending a lot of money.
Paneez Kahkpour
Yeah.
Ken Brown
And I and he told me that no, you can do it really cheap and he gave prices he discussed the price of doing lentils versus as long art..My gosh, I can go down rabbit holes on this one, our secret weapon, which we'll reveal one day he sent me some incredible articles on manufactured fibers or fibers that that are added to foods to augment the plant based diet and to do things like that and the inflammatory process that it actually causes. So if you're opening up a package mean just that means that they put stuff in there which will pause an inflammatory reaction in your body. I know that that leads to intestinal inflammation resulting in brain inflammation. So on Doug's episode, we discussed how you can buy for pennies on the dollar foods which will supply thymine, which I mean he's got the vitamins down, he's got the fiber down. So the misconception is that you can actually take a parents say don't go through the drive thru McDonald's, it seems cheap. When if you can just go to the periphery of the grocery store, it's always the periphery. It's not the middle, not the middle. Do not walk down the aisles, just walk around the outside, you'll be able to fill your cart with sustainable foods which provide most of the nutrients that you will need. And you can do it in a cost savings and it, it hurts my feelings that I mean, I feel like you're doing an uphill battle right now camp Oasis is awesome. That is like you crush it right there. Now you're going and you're helping autistic kids that when they go home, probably the parents are not educated enough or Well, nobody is it's America. Nobody's educated enough on how to properly eat.. Well I'm not I'm learning.
Eric Rieger
Well think about the challenge that you said about the mom who has to wait with the kiddo for eight hours. That's a work day for her. It's a work day for the dad. I mean, they're sitting there doing that they're negotiating. I'm going We are going to have to do without because we have to go and do this. And we're going to waste all day waiting.
Ken Brown
So let's go back to the parent perspective again. So now you have an autistic child that you are trying to work on their speech capability to express their emotions. And a parent shows up and says we need to pick them up. What's your interaction with the parents?
Paneez Kahkpour
Um, it's not too much. It's usually like, every time I see their child, it's maybe like a four or five minute conversation. So not a whole bunch just because in that conversations is, this is what we did today. These are the things you should try to do at home and see you next time. That's basically as much as we really get because most of its spent with that child. So it'sa little hard.
Ken Brown
I could just imagine what happens with somebody who is worried about paying next month's rent.
Eric Rieger
Oh, yeah.
Ken Brown
And they have a trial that it has some trouble communicating on the Autism Spectrum Disorder it's the the ability to become empathetic to that situation. You have that ability because you have Crohn's disease, and you have muscle through it and you chose a career which could be one of the more difficult uphill battles to change a the underprivileged autistic community. And I commend you on that.
Paneez Kahkpour
Thank you.
Ken Brown
That is awesome. That is it is a bold, bold thing. Definitely, but I could totally see. Man, it's a hierarchy of needs. I have a I have a patient whose they actually corrected their their child's autism but they also have the resources share the intelligence they I mean intelligence, meaning they're both like super educated, and deep dive and didn't stop at the traditional medical thing. And they started looking at all kinds of alternative therapies like hyperbaric oxygen chambers, which then they purchased for their house and they, I mean, stuff that I mean, whenever they come out, I don't know why they even come to see me. I'm just like, so what do you want? What have you read? You're gonna teach me I got several patients like that run like we should probably meet at the coffee shop I learn from you. But..
Eric Rieger
What's it like to have to have a kiddo who who has a breakthrough after the training, so maybe you have somebody who's been non verbal, and then suddenly they..
Paneez Kahkpour
It's greatest like every, you know, if someone else looking at it may not seem like a very big change. But from someone who doesn't say anything to like, give me a sound is just incredible. It's, you know, it's those little baby steps that make it a, you know, a big change. And so those baby steps are the big ones.
Eric Rieger
I'm curious as a parent when they see like this one little victory that helped them kind of buy into the process that Okay, we've got this little victory here. This isn't time wasted, my child's doing better. And maybe they expand their acceptance of things that you're yeaching them to do at home.
Paneez Kahkpour
Yeah, I mean, I think so to a degree. Yeah, they, especially the ones who, because I do home health as well. So the ones who see are in the sessions or they can hear they're like a, you know, earshot away, they can hear it. I think it's super helpful. Because, you know, they see like, how much time is spent. And then you get that one little like, like, vowel sound, or like, you know, kid thing more or something super simple that we take for granted, because, you know, we never had any issues with that. But yeah, it gives them hope it gives them you know, like a light at the end of the tunnel.
Ken Brown
So, like I always do when I just think what's going on what's going on at a cellular level, how is this happening and you're dealing with the end product of this which is necessary, which communication is the key, so I've never told you this. But anyways, I grew up I was a really bad stutter. And so my ability to communicate was really limited. Like for the first six, the first six grades, and I was put in remedial classes, because they just assumed that I was stupid. And what I did is rather than stutter I did a type of stuttering called blocking. Right? I could see the word coming. And I'm like, I'm gonna stutter on that word.
Eric Rieger
Really?
Ken Brown
Yeah, no, yeah, it was bad. And so I would block and then I could not get the word out. And then it just became this facial contortion thing. So I'm extremely empathetic to the fact that communication is how you're labeled. So if you cannot articulate yourself, oh, he's so articulait he's must be intelligent. If you cannot verbalize what's going on, then so I'm really well, I went to speech pathology for years and then when I.. So I didn't learn Spanish as a child, I learned Spanish as an adult in med school and went back to the same speech pathologist that I went to when I was a child. And he was just like, crap, you're greedy. He's like you how bad you were. Now you want to like not stutter in another language, because it all kicked back in and then tremendous anxiety and everything. So the ability to actually communicate and a speech pathologist role to help somebody do that, whether it's somebody's post stroke, whether it's somebody that is autistic, whether it's somebody that stutters, is incredible because we're judged by how we actually articulate. And it's the social norm. And I love how you're saying that if I can get somebody to just acknowledge I can see that they're getting it.
Eric Rieger
Yeah
Ken Brown
That's what's cool. There's something in there. And I want to my my passion is the gut brain access, and I believe that autism is really no different than dementia. It's over activity, it's really no different than stuttering its activity in a certain neural complex, which prevents you from having the appropriate connection. It's all electrical. And there's some really cool stuff. Johns Hopkins is going to do a study on a molecule called sulforaphane coming up, too, because they're showing some deep some improvement with that, if we can find this. And so, the reason why I think it's so interesting that we talked about diet because I've seen in my own practice, autistic their 16 year olds, because that's the earliest I can see him. When we improve their gut health, their brain health improves. So to anybody that's listening that has an autistic child, I think that people like you are making a huge difference. And I think that we have to continue to realize that, that there are people out there working on a cellular level and there are people out there working on the functional level, and that's what you're doing. You're changing the moment. It's great if I say Oh, hang in there. for 10 years, there's a drug or a new study that will come out, but you're grinding it out. That's what I love.
Paneez Kahkpour
Thank you.
Eric Rieger
That's awesome.
Ken Brown
What's your favorite thing in that job?
Paneez Kahkpour
No session. No days the same. You're always keeping you on your toes all the time. Keeps it fun, and you get to play with kids. It's great.
Eric Rieger
Sounds creepy when a guy says it.
Ken Brown
So Eric, Eric actually tried to be a at home speech pathologist. But I mean, for some reason showing up in the windowless van.
Eric Rieger
Kind of.. just said candy on the outside. They asked, Why do you want to do this? I just want to hang out kids. That's awesome. Thank you, Paneez so much for coming.
Paneez Kahkpour
Thanks for having for having me.
Eric Rieger
Absolutely what an incredible show.
Ken Brown
You know ...I just love it. I mean, I just admire you so much. You. This is like, like we talked about the whole show. It's a story of endurance. perseverance of being open and vulnerable. Last episode, we talked about being open and what makes people that way. And every characteristic that we talked about you absolutely show the willingness to see new ideas. Try, just get out there. And if you don't succeed, just keep adapting slowly.
Paneez Kahkpour
The only way..
Ken Brown
So where are you? I'm gonna put you on the spot again. Where are you at? 10 years from now?
Paneez Kahkpour
10 years from now, hopefully still in remission..Hopefully, I mean..
Ken Brown
She said that she kind of looked at me like, well I don't know keep me in remission..
Paneez Kahkpour
That's on you. Hopefully in remission, you know, hopefully I went to grad school and accomplish that because, you know, working on that right now. Maybe working in a hospital, maybe have my own private practice something, something along those lines.
Eric Rieger
Now, I don't know you didn't prompt me because I don't know but I don't know if Paneez is one of the Crohn's patients that we have currently that is taking Atrantil and CBD combo is that
Paneez Kahkpour
I was just on the CBD
Eric Rieger
Just on the CBD. So I okay, yeah, that's what I wanted to give us your perspective and what you felt. Did you get more control over?
Paneez Kahkpour
Yeah, I mean, so the thing is I overall I felt great, but because not going on again. Thank you Remicade. I've been feeling pretty good.
Eric Rieger
Sure
Paneez Kahkpour
Majority of the time I don't really have too many you know, issues maybe a little tiny players here and there but nothing too big. So overall, yeah, I just feel good. I sleep well. You know, no complaints.
Eric Rieger
No, that's that's the awesome part. I get to see the patients when they come through just like you've been through and there's a handful that have just verbalized. I don't worry so much about taking, whether it happens to be Remicade or anything else like that as often They're able to space it out just simply because they feel like they've controlled their inflammatory process. They don't have the flare ups like that anymore. I mean obviously they're adhering to a specific diet for them. But it's it's curious because it CBD to me four years ago I didn't I didn't believe the hype at all. I had to wait till we proved it clinically before I thought there was anything to it.
Ken Brown
Well, we this is this is where I want to end up in 10 years I want to end up with the ability to heal people's guts and their intestines so that we decrease neuro inflammation and it all comes down to overactivity your Crohns is because your immune system is overactive. All we got to do is ratchet it back a little bit. And fortunately, Remicade figured out by doing it in one particular manner that worked really well which really well for you. I got a lot of patients it doesn't and I'm not bashing Remicade at all We love all and that's why we tried these different biologics. That's why Reed had an anticlimactic shock and he had to go and humera and his doctors you just sit there and you'll Wow, contrary to what people think we really all want to cure for this.
Eric Rieger
Sure.
Ken Brown
We really want to care we I could sit here and do if I had my 10 year goal is just Well, this show is huge and we've got you know, we're having fun doing it still in 10 years
Eric Rieger
Yeah
Ken Brown
Cuz I like doing it and then I leave the show and I do like 20 Hemorrhoids and then I just go home
Eric Rieger
Wow
Ken Brown
I love hemorrhoids
Paneez Kahkpour
Sounds like a good line.
Eric Rieger
Big goals
Ken Brown
Big goals, has nothing to do with you know..
Eric Rieger
Someday I'll have a full tank of gas
Ken Brown
I'm a.. maybe I'll have a new pair of jeans. I don't know. Yeah, no.
Eric Rieger
It's a little thing.
Ken Brown
It's dude, keep your I mean live the dream just keep the dream real accessible.
Paneez Kahkpour
Attainable goals.
Ken Brown
Attainable goals.
Eric Rieger
Weird way in that episode, but yeah.
Ken Brown
Well I want to..Well, we're almost done. I want to ask one another thing here. Just let's do a shout out to your mom because she suffered a lot through all this.
Paneez Kahkpour
She really did. I love you, Mom, thank you for everything.
Ken Brown
Wave at the camera.
Paneez Kahkpour
Thank you. Love you. The best mom ever.
Ken Brown
Can you say I love you mom and Farsi?
Paneez Kahkpour
....Mom.
Eric Rieger
Big shout out to all the parents of all all kinds of diseases like that. I mean, you are your kids champion.
Ken Brown
This is the look at the camera one more time. This is this is the beautiful face of Crohn's disease.
Paneez Kahkpour
Think of Crohns and see my face?
Ken Brown
Yeah, and this is the beautiful face of a janitor at a..
Eric Rieger
Camp Sweeney.
Ken Brown
Camp Sweeney
Eric Rieger
It's been a while but yeah. Well said it.
Ken Brown
I think that is a great episode. I think it's very touching. I want to thank Dr. Mike Wiesburg for telling his story. That is very compelling. Go over and Get the book in the end. You can see by the way he writes that and that was like five minutes. Yeah. Like I mean, you know his his novels are incredible. I want to thank you so much Paneez for coming on and sharing I know that it's like really personal and stuff but we just need to get the word out to the Crohn's and colitis foundation camp Oasis thank you so much for everything that you guys do for all of this. And ultimately, I'm hoping that through some polyphenols like Atrantil and CBD, we can start making people feel better heal their guts heal their brain, stop the immune system and we will eventually get to the point where we would talk remember that time when people used to develop Crohns?
Eric Rieger
Yeah, that would be a great day to get to in fact, you can help them get to that day by donating to the Crohn's and ulcerative colitis foundation and if you go to gutcheckproject.com check the show notes for this show. We will be certain to have the links to you can check out camp Oasis how to be a volunteer how to give to Crohn's and UC, it's it's, it should be a goal.
Ken Brown
If you go to KBMDhealth.com and put in a code Persian princess but has to be in Farsi, you get 120% off.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, good luck getting that keyboard
Paneez Kahkpour
I have it, i'll go use it right now.
Ken Brown
Eric we're losing money!
Eric Rieger
It's not gonna work.
Ken Brown
Don't do that. Okay, nevermind. I retract the Persian princess code in Farsi.
Eric Rieger
Thank y'all very much for tuning in again, check project Paneez. Thank you so much for making time for us today.
Paneez Kahkpour
Of course, Thanks for having me.
Ken Brown
Awesome.
Eric Rieger
See you all later.
All right everybody It is now time for the gut check project. Let's talk about some of our sponsors for today's show, Episode Number 31. Of course, we're going to start it off with Atrantil you can get your own Atrantil at lovemytummy.com/KBMD chock full of nature's best defense against IBS and bloating polyphenols. Dr. Brown, what do you want to add to that?
One of the things is that we know that the future of protecting our microbiome and if you listen to this podcast, you will realize that we're it's all about health span. It's all about protecting your health. And the microbiome is the most important thing that you can actually augment Atrantil augments the microbiome. If you happen to be somebody that has IBS and bloating well we fix that also. So in other words, if you have issues take Atrantil. If you want to protect your health span take Atrantil.
So Atrantil, not only for your gut health protect your lifespan lovemytummy.com/KBMD, lovemytummy.com/KBMD. Don't get it from, Amazon. Get it directly from the Atrantil manufacturers themselves.
You know what, because you need to just get on with this, I'm going to correct you on this. You said lifespan, I said healthspan. Two different things. I want you to be healthy. That's the bottom line. Doesn't matter how long we live. If you end up with Dementia, Alzheimer's Parkinson's, and things like that healthspan, my brother.
That's why we get Dr. Brown on the show and not just me. So lovemytummy.com/KBMD. Now talking about KBMD, we also have another sponsorship, KBMD CBD. KBMD CBD is all organic CO2 extracted and has been used clinically where we gotten results correct?
Correct Absolutely. So one of the things is everybodyis talking about CBD, CBD these days, but getting the proper CBD is the key here.
If you cannot get direct access to a Certificate of Analysis, you're starting off on the wrong foot. All KBMD CBD lot number to lot number. Every single run, has an associated Certificate of Analysis so that you know that inside that bottle is exactly what appears on the label. And everything that we've ever or the Dr. Brown has ever found as a benefit from CBD has been tested in his own GI clinic and not just with himself with many of his own colleagues. So KBMD CBD, you can get your own at KBMDhealth.com. And you can also find the Dr. Brown signature protection package, which includes CBD and Atrantil. Now why would someone want to do that?
That is great question Eric. And the reason why is because when we've been talking to scientists, we realize that when you take Atrantil with CBD, it actually augments your own endocannabinoid production. Meaning, you explain that please.
Well, if you enhance your own endocannabinoid production, what you're going to do is give your body all of the elements that it needs to balance your immune system along with your nervous system. And by having that type of balance, you begin to decrease the, the negative effects of over inflammation. Or you could find out that you could sleep a little bit better that you just don't say have the same aches and pains. Essentially, there's a great reason that we're discovering that CBD is essential as a micro-nutrient that we could consume every single day.
I'm so proud of you.
Thank you.
You've learned so much.
I've learned so much.
Go to KBMDhealth.com, use code GCP save 20% on anything that you wish to purchase.
So ultimately, what happens is that the polyphenols Atrantil actually decrease the enzyme that breaks down your own endocannabinoids and that's how come I started getting into the science of this and I realized that every time everybody takes the KBMD CBD with Atrantil they do better. It augments, it meaning, they work together.
20%?
That's on top of the discounts that already come in the...
Sounds like i'm going to lose money on that.
What's important, is that everybody can rest assured you will not have money as a barrier to entry for your health.
You know, that's exactly it. I don't even care about that. So we're gonna lose a little money on this, but you guys get healthy. I'm on it, my kids are on it, my staff is on it, you're on it, your kids are on it, everybody's on it. Everytime you get in front of somebody. Our job with the gut check project is to promote health.
100%
And this is one way to do it.
Speaking of promoting health, we have our first external sponsor that we'd like to go ahead and talk about that is going to be somebody who made it a an appearance on episode number 30. The Unrefined Bakery so unrefinedbakery.com, unrefinedbakery.com. You can use, code gutcheck to save 20% off your very first purchase. And it doesn't matter where you live, even though they are based in the DFW Texas Metroplex, anywhere you live, they can ship to you. Gluten-free, paleo, keto compliant, whatever you're after in your special diet. That's what they specialize in. Low sugar, breads, cupcakes, mix. It's incredible food, that just happens to be gluten free. What do you think of the of the foods that Unrefined Bakery made this week?
Absolutely amazing. They were absolutely delicious. But, here's something else I want to say. I had a patient that just came to me, and they went to the Mayo Clinic they were Cleveland Clinic. They were like desperate, right? And they were told by their gastroenterologist that gluten sensitivity is not a thing.
Weird.
Guess what? Gluten sensitivity is a huge thing to me. Because every time I eat it, I'm pretty much stuck in the bathroom. So Unrefined Bakery. I love the fact that we brought them on. We had Taylor and Ann. And they, they crushed it. They're super smart.
Definitely. They're dedicated to their customers without question.
Dude, they have the same passion that we do, which is ultimately just promoting health, that's it.
Absolutely.
So I know, I had to laugh. This patient came to me and he goes, Yeah, my doctor told me that gluten sensitivity was not a thing. Like it, really is because I live it.
Yeah, absolutely. Unrefined Bakery, unrefinedbakery.com, use code, gutcheck, save 20% off your first order. Make it a big order. So save 20% off a bunch of stuffed.
20%? They're losing money also.
Absolutely. If you walked away thinking you can't have bread anymore, start here. They sell bread, they sell bread dough, they sell cupcakes, they sell cookies they sell like I said.
Can you get on the rest of the show, because I'm gonna drive there. Right now. And go get some cupcakes.
Unrefined Bakery.
You're doing too good of a job of selling this, holy cow.
We may not have a show, this may be it. This may be Episode 31 right here. So unrefinedbakery.com. Be sure and check them out. Use code gut check. And now we're onto the show. You're gonna love Episode 31. Dr. Brown is going to dive pretty deep and we'll get started here in 3,2,1.
Alright everybody is now time for the gut check project. It's Episode 31, we got a special topic here today that Dr. Brown is going to cover. Has anybody ever thought about fecal microbial transplants almost screwed up the way I said it, just then.
No, no, no, you can't screw up poop.
You can't screw up poop.
You can't screw up poop.
No, so I didn't. It's like. It's like everything's fine.
Yeah, I want to try something completely different here. So what, what happened and the reason why I'm to do this show, you and I is that I were surprisingly getting some reach. I got reached by somebody, instant messaged me from Sweden.
Someone from Sweden, Sweden.
Because they actually had GI issues developed bacterial overgrowth, SIBO. And then, in her desperation, she did a fecal transplant. In other words, she took somebody else's poop and put it in her body. So if this sounds weird, it's not that weird. It's something that's like gaining a ton of traction. And then she reached out to me because she ended up feeling way worse and developed several autoimmune issues. And that's what I want to get into the fact that FMT, Fecal Microbial Transplant is not a totally benign thing. And if, Are you open to maybe having me interview her?
I think it'd be fantastic if you interviewed her. There's nothing like real world conversation with people who have real world elements with real world answers.
That's so awesome. Because one little thing that I want to discuss is a recent article was sent to me in the Journal of Psychology
Okay?
Where openness to experience is linked to several things. So I would like everybody listening. The gut check project is about checking your ego at the door and being open to different things. So one of the things that I'm really proud of is that every time we do this show, people reach out to us we get a lot of email, we get a lot of people talking to us, and then I have to address it. Well, this particular show where I interview Helly, I want to make sure that if you have IBS, if you have SIBO, bacterial overgrowth, if you suffer from anything. Watch this because what I'm going to do is put a face to the disease. And she was so kind to reach out to me and say, film me, and I want everyone else in the world to know. So the Swedish person, who was very open about everything. She has exactly what I do in clinic, every single day. So what you're going to watch is what I do with her. It was a two hour interview. I cut it down to 15 minutes
Right?
So if you know anybody, please refer them. If you actually wants to sit there a little little bit more, we have our friend, Shivan Sarna.
Shivan Sarna, with SIBO SOS Summit. SIBO SOS Summit, yeah, absolutely.
SIBO SOS Summit. She's interviewed all the experts. I actually directed Helly over there, but more importantly, be open. So if you're like, if you're about ready to go ah, no, I'm not into it. What I'm going to tell you is, a recent study came out in Psychology Today, that talks about openness.
All right.
And the fact that you said open, makes me super excited.
I hope I'm as excited when this is all over.
I love how we show up. I hold papers and you're like, where are you going with this?
Sometimes you give me papers I don't even know they're there.
Alright, put simply.
Okay.
Openness is the drive to explore novel aspects of human experience. Okay? Now, here's what's fascinating. This article did this whole interview where they looked, and 95% of Americans feel that they are more open to new experiences than other Americans.
Well, Wow, that's amazing.There's only that 5% that everyone's competing with.
I know. So it's funny, because as we sit there and look at this, we realize that 95% of these Americans responded that they're more open than everybody else. But, as it turns out, when they actually went through the rest of the questionnaires, they're not.
Okay.
As we age, we become very entrenched in our own habits.
Familiarity, I'm sure is probably already 100%. It's gotta be.
I love the fact that I threw a curveball at you here on the show. And I'm like, you look I'm gonna we're gonna do a zoom with a person in Sweden. So that's pretty much our gas this time.
Sweet.
So, anybody who is open to experiences, they have shown that the people that are more open to new experiences tend to be financially better, tend to have better relationships, and they tend to be happier.
Okay.
So as much as you sit there and say, oh, well, I have my routines, being open and jumping off bridges and that, I don't mean that literally.
Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah. The figurative.
Figuratively because you and I jump off a lot of bridges, figuratively. But doing that more, actually results in a more prosperous life.
Doesn't that make sense though, because whenever something's new, it expands your mind. You have a new experience, and doing the same thing over and over again. Look what happens with people who have quote unquote, "stale relationships." They say we did the same thing. And if that happens, then you people always use the term spice things up. Where does spice come from? Spice comes from, from change, right? So embrace the change and take, take what's coming at you.
Embrace the change. So what we're going to talk about today is a couple simple techniques. So this study, and then we're going to get into the interview. Okay? And then I'm going to, I mean, I wish I had some way to geek out like some signs. It's like, Okay, I'm going to geek out now because the article I'm going to get into..
Yeah, geek out, like now we're gonna geek out. So I mean, I find myself I had a patient in that was a PhD, and I was sitting there, tell her about some stuff, and we started talking and next thing I know, it's like 30 minutes and we're way beyond the actual issues that she came in to see but I'm like, I'm like eating her brain about what she knows and, and she's like, Oh my gosh, hey, if you do this, and this and this and this and this. Like the inner connection of what we can do when we start pulling our mind power together, is really amazing. Yes, it's kind of what this is about. This is being open to new and novel things..
Maybe Paul can put a little sciences geek out.
Alright
So I'm going to tell you how to be open.
Okay
So rather than argue whether it's good or bad.. so the number one nudge the edge of your comfort zone, ..
Okay
So it has been shown in human studies that the more that you push things, as we grow older, we tend to confine ourselves more and more and more and more.
Yeah
As kids, they will push themselves. And you know, they'll just try anything.
There's no established boundary.
There's no established boundary. As adults, we tend to say this is my boundary, so I should not do that. I am not going to dance, because that's not who I am. I am not going to be silly. I that's I guess that's why I love comedians. They just get up there and just throw down.
Sure yeah, I love my grandpa or my granddad, used to have funny little sayings. And one of the things he always said is "you otta throw it against the wall, see if it sticks."
I love it.
You know, you turn, turn the key and see if it starts anything like that you he's basically just using metaphors for trying things out.
We have one shot at life and we tend to limit ourselves because of the fear of the unknown.
I would agree with that.
Quit doing that. Nudge your boundary, push your confidence to levels. And guess what? It's okay to fail.
It is okay to fail.
That's the thing. Number two, the number two way to actually become more accepting in that to openness is prototype over perfection.
Prototype over perfection. Kind of interpretation of that would be it doesn't have to be perfect to be used. Doesn't have to be perfect to be tested. Right?
That's funny how you interpreted it that way. Because the way that I read it was Eric Rhaegar. And Ken Brown, we are prototypes over perfection.
Quick, get some microphones and a camera. And let's see what happens.
Now, so Thomas Edison made 1000 unsuccessful attempts at making a light bulb.
Yeah.
And he actually was asked, how did it feel to fail 1000 times. Edison's response was, I didn't fail 1000 times the light bulb was an invention with 1000 steps.
Absolutely.
So whatever it is that you're doing, whatever it is that you're trying to do, you're not failing.
No.
It just becomes a step in the process. Be open to more things. Hundred percent.
Yeah, I couldn't agree with that more.
And when you realize that people like Edison failed 1000 times. Step up. Yeah, no more excuses. And then this is my favorite, right? The number three way to be more open. Follow your curiosities, not your passions. So you have two boys Gage and Mac.
Correct?
And you know we always sit there and tell people follow your passion, follow your passion. But the reality is, a passion is a very weird and personal thing.
Yeah.
And curiosities. Are, can be stimulated in many different ways..
I agree with that.
Curiosities can be built from different angles. They can be built from experiences they can be built from whatever follow the curiosity the curiosity will lead to a passion.
I'm gonna brag on my oldest here right quick, because he does play competitive basketball and they both do Gage and Mac both play competitive basketball and Mac hasn't had this opportunity. So this story is really just about Gage but he has or had some opportunities after he graduates high school this year to go and possibly explore playing basketball in a smaller school setting, etc. But as much as he enjoys playing basketball, he, he doesn't think that's what he wants to define him. He wants to keep his passion as his hobby, and be inspired by being a traditional college student being able to discover because he's afraid that for him, not for everyone, but being a collegiate athlete would basically wall him off from his ability for exploration. I mean, that's almost verbatim how he described it. He wants to be able to be a young man to still explore beyond the boundaries of a basketball and I think that's completely awesome would have been a lot cheaper, on everybody play basketball but that's that's not we all live once and that's not what was going to make him happy.
Is that fascinating? Because I know that I mean, we've talked a lot about Gage, Gage explores his curiosity..
Sure.
He plays music he artist does artists, he does video editing, he does different things. My kids do the same thing where I just didn't cure. I want to encourage the whole curiosity aspect of it. And I didn't even realize that that is what makes you open.
Sure.
When you're curious, you're open when you're open, you accept other ideas. When you accept other ideas, you accept other people, you can see that there's a whole path here. You eventually by being open, you have empathy.
Oh yeah.
You end up saying, I get where you're coming from. I could see what this is. You don't wall yourself off.
Yeah, absolutely. Now I'll brag on my younger one Mac Mac is often times with his large massive collection of friends, which spans about eight years in each direction. He, he often times refers to them from their station in life if they've had like a struggle or big win I've heard him say, they must be feeling this because this looks like that this would have felt good or bad and then kind of gives their you know, their environment perspective. So yes, I agree with that that the curiosity would would breed empathy like that. That's really cool.
So this particular doctor when they wrote this article, they said while passion is fickle, and high voltage curiosity, on the other hand is deep and abiding. When you approach something with a curious mindset, you're seeking growth and newness, for the sake of novelty. So stay curious, my friends.
Yeah. And it sounds like somebody else who said that.
Yeah. Somebody else I'm sure we can reference it because
Not supposed to.
So I just, I think it's interesting that and in this particular show, we're going to do something unique or we're going to put in a video of me interviewing a patient, but being open to new ideas being curious.
Sure.
That is the kind of stuff,so as a physician, when I'm curious, I went down some rabbit holes on this particular topic event.
I bet.
And I loved it. I love it. I'm a I'm a better doctor. This shows makes me a better doctor, this show is going on Shivan's webcast makes me a better doctor, I have to prepare for it. I have to do different things. I mean, we all have to sit there and realize, okay, I am going to be curious about this topic. I'm going to learn it, I'm going to do it. And then all of a sudden it opens up a new door and you're like, we haven't thought about that.
No.
That's what this shows about. So if you ever heard about Fecal Microbial Transplant, meaning poop transplant, that's what this is about, and there's a lot of hype around it. If you haven't heard it. I listened to multiple podcasts on this. Dave Asprey had an expert on I mean, like all people that I like to listen to.
Sure Ben Greenfield.
Ben Greenfield did this. Everybody did this? I'm going to sort of rock the whole ship here. Okay, today, I know. Let's be open everything. Let's be open. The fact that if you're open, you're going to be open to ideas. You're going to be open to different perspectives. But the reality is it's gut check project, check your ego at the door. What we're going to talk about is SIBO bacterial overgrowth, IBS, and if you want to watch somebody spilled their guts and really be genuine and be open. I have an interview here that we're going to play in the next few minutes. With Helly from Sweden, nice and she was open and cool. And you're not alone. If you have any digestive issues, you're not alone, and that's the bottom line. So she the story is this. She got sick then she was not right. Then in her desperation, meaning like she had the typical SIBO stuff. She got a fecal microbial transplant, she went to a doctor, he did a colonoscopy and placed poop from another person into her. And then she got sicker. Oh, that wasn't what they were after. That's not what they were after, right? And then she went back to the doctor. He's like, well, let's try again. And let's try again, and then she contacted me because she developed a multitude of autoimmune issues. Interesting. And she is essentially, she feels like she's dying.
Hmm.
So I would not normally respond to a message but she said, Hey, I need your help. I'm like, Look, here's what we're going to do. I don't know if I can help you. But if you're willing to share your story, we'll play it and we'll learn together. So what I want is everyone, every doctor, every patient to listen to this and say we're going to find something new to fix people. That's what that's what this is about. So let's go ahead and turn it over. This is my interview with Helly from Sweden, who reached out about having complications from a poop transplant, Fecal Microbial Transplant.
All right, tune in.
So tell me a bit about yourself.
Okay, I'm 36 um, I've always been healthy until 2015. But after Flagyl everything my health went downhill. I started it gave me horrible panic attacks, I started getting depressed in movement. This is this sounds strange, but I could actually feel it in my stomach. It was like a nervous kind of feeling. You know, when you have butterflies in your stomach, but it wasn't like a good feeling. You're like you don't have an appetite. It was just like that. Yes, brain fog and the worst thing I had ever felt in my life was something called the realization. You know, when I had nausea all the time all the time. For two years I had not imagined you have a stomach flu that goes on every single day, every waking hour for two days, for two years, that's what I had. And I lost my new job that I had gotten a week before I got Flagyl so I couldn't stay so I it for three years this brain fog and, and my my, because my also my bowel movements. I mean, I had never always gone to the bathroom every day. I got maybe once every two days or something. But after Flagyl my my stool wasn't the same horrible horrible fatigue. I the brain fog I couldn't focus I couldn't I was always panic this this panic was the worst. I wouldn't I mean, if you have panic attacks.
So essentially 2015 you get the antibiotics. You start with this down this path you are you eat specially carby foods, you get very bloated. And then you ended up having quite a few beginning with neurologic issues where you had the brain fog, panic attacks and depression some sleep disturbance out of frustration. You had, insomnia, you you went to several different doctors One of them was an advocate for FMT, known as Fecal Microbial Transplantation. And you got ultimately over over a course three different fecal transplants. First one being with a colonoscopy. Second one being with an enema and then an enema again. Okay, so both, and after each one, you had a reaction to it where you had what you felt like the flu and you had lymph nodes that got big. And then since then, you've had very significant skin and scalp issues with Alopecia meaning your hair's falling out. You've had biopsies which are permanent. And now the really unusual one is the hypermobility and the feeling like your joints are getting slightly bigger. And, that is something that seems to be progressing with you right now. Is that correct?
Yes. Okay. Yeah, it's in jaws, back. It just pops and pops everywhere.
Okay.That is quite the history there Helly. And I'm very sorry, you're going through all of that. Let's try and make a little bit of sense. I don't know if I can help you. But I do at least want to try and explain a few things just so that you're, you're very intelligent. A ton of reading, I'm going to share my screen real quick. So one thing that we do realize when we talk about, this is a moving target as you can see, and so you have a history which is very consistent for somebody to develop bacterial overgrowth. We know that SIBO can happen if you go through a stressful event. If you take care antibiotics are having an infection. And you kind of had all three happen at a similar time. We know that that can affect the motility and all comes down to motility. So you've already learned the basics of bacterial overgrowth, a SIBO and you understand that it's a can be population of bacteria growing where it shouldn't. So when you eat the bacteria break it down. These are just some recent studies that we've been looking at that kind of show how these different gases can affect things. So this is the effects and mention of how methane affects ileo-motor function. And if you listen to Dr. Pimentel talk, what he discovered in his lab, is that what the methane does, it doesn't just shut it down. It actually makes your intestines do an uncoordinated contraction. So it's like it just sort of spasms. And when it does that it doesn't move anything, thus allowing bacteria to continue to grow. Now we know that you drew out both hydrogen and methane. And we do know that when you have hydrogen, if it can actually bind and produce hydrogen..
..But more hydrogen. Yes.
More hydrogen. So what what I see in my practice is that it is the multi biome. It's how these different organisms interact with each other, including fungal organisms producing possibly CO2 or the or the methane back background. Now hydrogen sulfide is a big deal, because what we do know is it's it can actually, the cysteine residue that normally reproduce on our diet gets absorbed and gets converted, but when you have bacterial overgrowth, it produces hydrogen sulfide, which leads to inflammation. Ultimately, inflammation is the root cause of all of this. And so what I think we're seeing in you, yes, that you have root causes the inflammatory process. You're exactly right, that when you had your your Genova stool test, that when you had the fat in there, you are mal-absorbing fat now are you mal-absorbing fat due to bacterial overgrowth, it could also be pancreas and we do see this overlap with that. But it is completely linked all these different things that a lot of times other doctors say well, you just have chronic pain, Fibromyalgia fatigue, migraines, but your initial presentation was all about the brain. The thing that I think you'll find it interesting is that once we know that we set this inflammatory cascade off, I want to show you this arrow right here. Yes, new data has shown that when a mass cell gets stimulated, it'll release histamine and serotonin proteases. But the histamine itself will actually stimulate the enteric nervous system, which will go straight to the CNS. So when you mentioned earlier, I do know that there is a gut brain connection vaguely? Well, it's mediated through the entire nervous system and it is very, very, very sensitive. So have intestinal inflammation, there is your gut brain connection. So if you look at this, the new evidence is now showing that this gut brain connection is in all different kinds of Dementia, Autism, Anxiety, ADHD, you know, the newest term it's really fascinating is leaky brain, because what they've done is that they've actually shown that you can soak colonic tissue in inflammatory mediators. And then they soaked blood, the blood brain barrier, and they show that both of them become permeable. So know that there is no doubt about it. It's not in your head, that whole depersonalization, that anxiety that depression can all be related to leaky brain. I do I am getting into quite a bit of research and cannabidiol or CBD. And there is there are some in vitro studies where they actually looked at how they can improve the blood brain barrier, which ultimately helps with all that so my fear is that these kind of things will continue. Like like you're already worried, continue to progress to lead to more autoimmune issues to lead to more things like that. So the whole FMT thing is really fascinating to me, because we got very excited about it. And then the FDA came in, and then and then they basically pulled the plug. And then we said, no, it's very effective in clostridium difficle infections.
Yes, I know that.
Yeah. And so that's what it's really only allowed for here, though, the whole concept of just saying we'll just take somebody's super donor a poop. Getting back to the how we prepare it, you may have a super donor right here, meaning you have a diverse microbiome. But once we process it, you may decrease the viability of that even if you do DNA analysis, you don't know if that bacteria is viable. So what I'm getting at is I think it would be very interesting to, in somebody like you, let's say that we advanced the science of this we can go oh okay, Helly, I think that unfortunately, we this particular donor did not have enough of butyrate producers bacteria. How do we get more of that in that? I am a big fan of spore based biotics. megaspore biotic.
Megaspore?
Yeah, so if you want..
That's a probiotic, how can I take that?
So I want you to go to our show, I actually we actually interviewed their their CEO, PhD, ..., and beautiful how he explains the science of probiotics. And it's incredible how he explains how the spore based biotics send signaling to other bacteria. So one of the things that they can do and the reason why we're teaming up is because we realized that the polyphenols and Atrantil can actually help feed the spore base bacteria. And what it does is it goes through and doesn't become out of its spore phase until it gets to the illeum at which point signaling goes it goes, Oh, we're gonna end up in the colon. Then it gets to the colon wakes up and starts tapping other bacteria and goes hey guys, we need to diversify a little bit. And they've actually shown that they can deliver vaccines this way and stuff. So the whole concept of spore based biotics is, is really fascinating and new barnwood spore based but so..
But can I just ask you Atrantil I have there sir, I know that three ingredients. One is from peppermint, which is fine. I just don't know all that much from about this bark tree thingy.. is it?
Well, you know that all really good questions all extremely complex. So, the bark you're talking about is Quebracho, Quebracho Colorado. That's the thing that makes us so unique is because we actually are the only product that has this. Quebracho Colorado is a proanthocyanidin or a tannin. So it's the tannins are proanthocyanidins combined into a large molecule. So the thing that we needed to help with SIBO is that we needed Atrantil to be a poorly absorbed molecule. So when we were talking about scientists, then we looked at all the animal data that had been done. And so what we do know is that in animal models, sheep and cattle that are fed this tend to have a much healthier microbiome, they tend to produce better milk, they tend to have increased weight gain and things like that. So from an animal perspective, we've been feeding cattle for a long time. from a human perspective, you're getting it in a lot of different sources that you didn't really realize, for instance, wine. Things like that, you're getting a lot of this. polyphenols, yeah, but polyphenols is a huge umbrella. Before every time somebody does some research on it, it appears that they are beneficial in ways that can that can become very complex. So this is that whole post biotic conversation that when you take a polythenol and or an undigested polysaccharide that gets to the colon, bacteria can break them down into different things. There are different molecules so that bacteria can break something down, and then produce a molecule called eurolithin. Eurolithin signals old and sick mitochondria to die. So that is my topic. So this is this is the kind of complex signaling that's going on.
So when they die, those new mitochondria that does the body produce more or?..
Yes, so it's like autophagy. Autophagy...
Yes
It's mytophagy. It's just the signaling to say, hey, you're an old and functioning powerhouse. And we need a new one over here. So okay, so then the big argument if you talk to in vitro scientists or bench researchers that look what they know is that these polyphenols like reservatrol, like berberine, like, all these molecules are similar like quercetin like tumeric all these. They'll say, Oh, well, one of the problems that Is that it actually creates a little bit of stress on cells. And so that's that antioxidant thing that you're talking about, which is too many antioxidants, then we don't know what it does. in vivo, I think what's happening is is that that is a version of hormesis. Actually, I think there's a term for it. It's called xeno- hormesis, meaning you're outside of hormesis is the adaption to a stress. So the reason why you work out and the reason why exercise is functional is because that's, that's a hormetic response. The reason why Oh, you're in Sweden, you guys are loving saunas, right? You guys are a big sauna society?
It's more Finland. But yea.
I'm a huge sauna fan, because that's a great example of turning on, heat shock proteins. And so what that does is you stress your body a little bit to make it adapt more. So you get this bigger, this bigger response. I think that the whole emerging role in the US were we're really limited by the research that we do is usually funded by pharmaceutical companies.
Yes.
Here that's what that's really what I'm trying to do is try and bridge this gap and say, okay, how do we look at some of this consistent research that's been done in the lab done in animals, some small studies in humans and say, can we translate this to benefit somebody like you? So I want I what I will tell you all I will do is I'll try and dive more into the FMT thing ask around if they've had some different challenges like this. And in the meantime, I hope that this helps you discuss a little bit more with your doctor and..
I will..
You know Helly, I think we should probably wrap this up. But..
Yes. So what's the next step? You will you will get in touch with me when you've found someone and then we can set up a meeting for, for them for the new thing for the new recording. The show or what..
Yea, we need to heal you and bring you back on so that we can heal? .. Next step is for you to tell everybody to watch the gut check project so that maybe one FMT expert will see it and go, okay, I'm willing to talk and then we can pick their brain.
Okay.Perfect. Thank you so much. So. So..
Hang in there. I hope that this..
I will.
I hope the zoom at least helps you to relax a little bit. And we know that people are still trying. There's a lot of scientists out there working on a lot of these things. The joint thing, I'm a complete loss. I've always thought of the EDS as a genetic thing. But then again, we have this whole epi genetic field where yes, you carry a gene, and then something happens that turns it on that's another process. So.
Yeah, yeah. So it will be interesting to see if I have that gene. I'm going to ask for investigation in that too, because if I don't have it, then it really really is proof that it it's something with SIBO or from the gut. Yeah, and I would know.Yeah.
Fascinating. Yeah..
Yeah. Okay. Dr. Brown, thank you so much for your time. And..
Helly thank you so much for allowing us to share this with our audience. A lot of people realize that you put a face to a problem. A lot of people feel alone when they're doing..
Yeah, yeah. Yeah they do. Hopefully we can figure this out? Yeah. Okay. Dr. Brown, thank you so much I don't want to take much more of your time now. Thank you. You too.
Keep in touch okay?
I will. Thank you. Bye.
Alright, so we're back after the video. Hey, I get to see you at the procedure setting whenever we do the colonoscopies. Is it like that every day in the clinic side because we don't have those kind of interactions with the patients whenever we have them come through so I mean we just heard about the Hashimoto Ehlers-Danlos and screwed up how to say.
Ehlers-Danlos.
Thank you, but so we hear that that's what she said.
Alopecia.
Losing hair. Yeah.
I mean, this is a beautiful woman who's this has disrupted her life. That's why I wanted it, you know, and thank you to Helly for letting us do.
Thank you Helly very much.
Yeah, you're right, Pedram.
Yes, it actually adds a face to the disease. This is what I do every day people come in and they're desperate. And I want to talk about something unique that nobody's putting this thing together. Let's do it. And hopefully, people like Shivan Sarna can spread the message about what I think I uncovered. When I was preparing for this, with with Helly and listening to her like, Oh my gosh, wait a minute, I think I know what's going on. Because the key to Helly is so it was a two hour interview and I cut it down to 15 minutes. So there's a lot that's left out. Okay. Much like Shojai Pedram, what's his name?
Yeah. When when he interviewed me for his Netflix movie, and we did Like 30 minutes of filming, and I got like 30 seconds of airtime.
Well, the goal is not through everything. Not all golden hills.
Pedram Shojai. Yeah. Pedram Shojai. Yeah. So he's got he does this docu series.
You said right the first time he did it with a with a last name comma first name.
Oh. So yeah, that was a you end up on the editing floor and I remember like to love it said why don't you just be more interesting and you'll make it into the actual film..
Love it holding back.
Alright, so anyway, so it was a two hour interview that we that I clipped down so that the thing that people want to hear and if you're that person, and if you have SIBO or IBS or autoimmune issues, there's a high likelihood that some of what she talked about is relevant to you.
Correct.
Which the thing that kept resonating to me is the anxiety. So she can deal with most of it, but the anxiety and the depression and the panic, never had in her entire life and just something happened. So that's what I want to get into post fecal microbial transplant. She ended up having all these issues.
Yeah and your right, having anxiety basically takes away the ability for the coping mechanism to deal with the other present problems. And it's just a it's compounding the issue.
Yeah, it's like insult to injury. Yeah, yeah. So you can have gut issues, but now you're having brain issues.
And I can't even reason through it without feeling kind of terrible.
Well, I want to explain all that. And I started looking into this. And then I started doing some Google searches, on FMT, which is fecal microbial transplant. Sure. And one of my partners that I was gonna interview Dr. Ackerman, who's actually done a bunch of this. We started talking about the consequences of this, and hey, we don't really understand exactly what's going on. So if you Google it, it looks Looks like it's the panacea. People are offering this for autism, Parkinson's or Alzheimer's. They're saying I have the cure to this. But I'll let you know right now that the FDA is regulating this because there's been recently two deaths on fecal microbial transplant. And so the FDA is getting involved. So a lot of these different clinics and stuff are doing in outside of the US.
Yeah, Mexico, Mexico, and Central America, Bahamas. Exactly.
So patients always ask me about this. And if I had a way to say I'm about ready to geek out, I'm gonna geek out. So I want to go into a deeper discussion into the science and talk about improving the risk and improve the beneficial effects of fecal microbial transplant. I remember I've had so many friends call me up and they're like, hey, my mom has Dementia. Do you think a microbial transplant ? If you've never thought about it, it seems weird. But once you're desperate, it seems like the easiest thing that you can do.
Sure.
I'm gonna take my poop from this good, healthy person, but in somebody else, and people are discussing how it affects all these other diseases. This is an example of how somebody did it. And it unlocked diseases in her..
Interesting..
The epigenetic phenomena. epigenetics means that you have genes in you. And then when you have an environmental shift, you end up unlocking these genes and they become relevant. It's super complex. So in my own practice, I've actually had twins that had all sort of one had ulcerative colitis, and they gave a fecal microbial transplant from the healthy twin to the the one that had ulcerative colitis, and they did it multiple times. And so the colitis better.
Good. Interesting.
She also took on the traits of the twin. She ended up having acne, she ended up putting on some weight, she ended up doing some different things. Fascinating. Yeah, think about that. I can sit there and put this. So then I started looking into it. And then there's mouse studies where they have looked, and they have shown that if you take a mouse that has Parkinson's, and they can genetically modify mice to have that, and then you give a non-Parkinson's mouse or a non Parkinson's mouse and you transplant, they end up developing Parkinson's. And that happened with blood pressure, diabetes, stroke, obesity. traits get transferred in the bacteria, it's nuts. So we sit there and go, Oh my gosh, that's like a big deal. So The original studies that have actually been done have looked and humans have shown this, where when they do a microbial transplant, nobody's writing about this. Everybody's saying it's a fantastic thing.
Sure.
There's this biome.org thing where they're collecting poop and they're given to people. What I want to get into is why I'm not saying it's good or bad. What I'm what I want to discuss is the science of how bad things can happen...which is very unpopular. Like, everybody wants it to work. Everybody wants it.
So do we.. we'd be awesome. But..
So like in Helly's case, she developed, I really think that she developed Ehlers- Danlos syndrome from it. It's nuts.
Yeah, that is nuts. And just just as a caveat, this is not to undermine the research the application of FMT whatsoever. It's just basically just what gut check projects for let's discuss everything that's applicable here.
So in a recent review, so FMT, I'm just gonna refer to as FMT, fecal microbial transplant has emerged as it legitimate treatment for the FDA recognizes it for C. diff infection, Clostridium difficile infection, which.. which is real bad. What happens is if you take antibiotics, you can actually wipe out all your other bacteria in one lives, and then they just sort of colonize and create habit. So we do know that it works very well for that. But in a recent review, 2 to 6% of people that have actually done FMT had very serious adverse events. Infection was noted in 2.5%. One of the problems is that the current screening process is very similar to blood. So if I'm going to take your poop put it in me, I'm just going to say do you have had a, b, c, AIDS.. you're good? Because we're treating it like blood, but it's not blood. It's not blood. We don't know enough about it. Yeah, so the current process is that this is what we're actually doing. And then I started looking online, and I found out that there's all these DIY, I do it yourself. Hmm. websites that tell you how to do it. So they're not even screaming for that. They're just saying fine.
Now that I do not know, there's DIY websites for how to do an FMT on your own.
Dude, I got so deep into the weeds in this thing, the fecal microbial transplant thing everybody wants to say it'll fix I mean, it'll fix everything you name a disease, somebody saying that it fixes it. This is what I want to talk about right here. This is why we do this show. The problem is that right now, a super donor, which is what Helly had. So her doctor gave her a super donor, which is a somebody that has no infection that they could find, okay, and they had a broad microbial species is more important than anything else.. What we don't really take into account is how does that super donors bacteria that that person developed their entire life. And they interact in an epigenotic way, meaning that they actually interact with your body. Why would that be the same as you?
I don't know. Because, you know, it being a.. because it essentially a micro environment that's inside, what if you don't live in the same region of the world that I do? What if you don't participate in the same activities that I do?If you don't eat the same foods that I eat? It's there's a lot left open to interpretation and understanding, it seems to me.
Totally. And then as it turns out, one thing that we're not even discussing is the byproducts of bacteria.. So when I say byproducts, I don't mean that as waste. What I mean is that the bacteria, the bacteria that we have in our bodies, that our micro biome produces certain beneficial thing..
Urolithin and all kinds of cool stuff like that..
Post biotics.
Post biotics.
Well, I I love it because when I gave the lecture at natural grocers, I was talking about post biotics and one of the dietician said, Well, what about short chain fatty acids? And I thought on a local level butyrate, which helps colonocytes? And I said, Well, I, I don't consider that a post biotic. She's like, I think you should reconsider, because the reality is that those short chain and then guess what she was 100%. Right.
She was spot on.
Spot on. Yeah. So props to natural grocers to hiring super smart people and teaching me and as it turns out, the short chain fatty acids probably pay a huge role in this whole process. Sure. It's a byproduct of bacteria. And what happens is when you eat vegetables, or complex polysaccharides, or prebiotics, or polyphenols, they all kind of do the same thing. They basically go to the colon where your bacteria then break them down.. and they produce certain short chain fatty acids, these short chain fatty acids interact to the body in different ways. So it sounds really chemistry, but it's one is called butyrate, which as it turns out is fantastic for your body sure what it's called acetate. Oh, acetate, is that the thing that develops when you workout really hard and deplete your ATP? Yes, same thing. So, as it turns out, that crosses the blood brain barrier.... And creates inflammatory process... So these short chain fatty acids, what I'm getting at is I'm going to take somebody else's poop, put it in you, and we're hoping that it all works out. This particular article looked really deep into the different short chain fatty acids that are actually produced.. And in Helly's case, even though she got her transplant from a super donor. I think that one of her issues is that her body's own micro biome may have interacted and she produced more lactate producing bacteria interesting, which crossed into her brain which caused her panic attacks.
So lactate of course, is something that we measure on somebody who has over activity if somebody has a rhabdomyolysis, and then there's all kinds of implications of too much lactate, and of course, that's related to lactic acid. You get that whenever you're fatigued, so she has bacteria, you can only imagine if they're over producing that, that that would, of course make her fatigued and more inflammed, right?
Absolutely. Satish Rao, who's a gastroenterologist all over gusta George's, the SIBO expert. I think Shivan interviewed him actually Satish. Yeah, yeah. He published a study which showed that if you take a lactate producing bacteria, that those people that take a probiotic with SIBO, they end up with more anxiety and more depression. And it all fits.
Interesting.
So Helly if you if you want to Interview Heloise like the thing that bothered me the most was my anxiety and my panic. She even talked about a deep personalization experience, where every time she she's like, I don't get it. I've never been like that. I'm telling you that the bacteria produced lactate that cross the blood brain barrier that resulted in brain inflammation that resulted in your anxiety.
The behavioral change.
A behavioral change.
Yeah, just from bacteria. That's, I mean, it's, it's wild, but it's, it's probably true.
I mean, micro biome has evolved in the gut together, and it's very complex. They signal if you watch our show with Kieran, he talks about how the bacteria talk to each other.
Definitely.
So when we sit there and say, oh, we're going to wipe this one out, or I'm going to give more of this one that may adversely affect the chain downstream.
Well, it's probably all the more reason why a DIY FMT is a is a poor idea. Your there's some much more research needs to be done.
You know, the whole FMT thing is, is scary because well, it's just because we just don't know what to do know.
We don't know enough yet.
We don't know enough. Yeah, Peter Aditya said it past where he was like he goes, we have the ability to test tool. We don't know what to do with it.
Yeah, he did.
He's the first person just blunted it down.
But he said it several times. And I agree with him. Yeah.
So the one thing we know is that we do need a high diversity.
Correct?
So the more diverse your microbiome is, the better. So now here's sort of the cool part. In a healthy individual, the colon is predominantly, gonna get geeky, ready?
Ready.
The colon is predominantly dominated by obligate anaerobes.
Obligate anaerobes, okay.
Do you know what that is?
Lack of oxygen.
Lack of oxygen.
Yeah. They need to exist in order to proliferate with a lack of oxygen. Correct?
Correct.
Okay.
So they need to, they will proliferate in an article oxygen free environment.. names like bacteroides infirmities and these different phylum that we talked about. This allows for a higher production of butyrate, the short chain fatty acid.
Which is beneficial to colonocytes.
Which is beneficial to colonocytes. And as it turns out, it's beneficial to all intestinal tract stuff.
Colonocytes just is a fancy way of saying colon cells. So just so you know.
You're so nerdy. Yes, you're right. A lot of sites are colon cells. Alright, so our friend Dr. Pimentel, he's actually described how when he's been treating people with SIBO, bacterial overgrowth, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth that he has shown that there are blooms..
Oh okay.
Of facultative anaerobes and he uses the terms blooms.
Facultative anaerobe.
What he means is somehow the SIBO people end up with more facultative anaerobes in the colon. So, SIBO is small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, bacteria growing where it shouldn't. And then when we try and look at them, he's got the technology at Cedar Sinai, just show that they're colonic bacteria. They have an overabundance of facultative anaerobes. Meaning.. what? What does that mean?
I don't know. Because when you use obligate anaerobes, it's almost like an interchangeable before I didn't really I'm not really used to the adverb, oblogate and facultative so kind of explore that. This is new to me.
Yeah, it's awesome. So basically, it's a badass bacteria that can swing both ways. Oh, if you give it oxygen, it will.
Different result?
It will say I can deal with oxygen. I prefer anaerobe.
Wow.
So if you take the oxygen out, I will do better but in Oxygen environment, I'm going to proliferate more, but meaning you have this balloon. So Pimentel describes it as a bloom, meaning we're producing too many facultative anaerobe..
Interesting
Oh it's super wild.
So just as an analogy, what we're saying here is there are some freshwater fish and there are saltwater fish, but you also have those fish that can basically change the way that they handle their respiration and their, their salt water content. And they can exist in both brackish they can exist in brackish water and go back and forth between fresh and salt. So this is kind of like what a facultative..
You know what, thank you for making that analogy, because I wasn't thinking like that at all. But yeah, you're exactly right.
The transitional bacteria.
Yeah, it's a transitional bacteria that will adapt to the environment.
Interesting.
This is really interesting. So what he has said is that when you have these blooms of facultative anaerobes these bacteria will prefer an anaerobic environment, but they will switch to oxygen and grow quickly. This may be the root cause of dysbiosis. So this could be the reason why I see the SIBO people. Yeah. And they're bloating, it's better but they're still constipated, they're still..
So the problem is just adapting.
So what was it turns out is and we're going to get into it a little bit. We may be promoting the facultative anaerobes.
Okay.
And this is why it's a chronic condition. So if you're somebody that is suffering with SIBO I think that maybe your diet choices could be singularly selecting a facultative anaerobe, which does not produce butyrate.
So when you're doing current, we need to take things that encourage butyrate production that we're getting to?
That's exactly what I'm doing to. So I'm circling around everything where I'm like, we are not producing enough butyrate or body.
So knowing and I don't want to jump ahead, but just to bring the audience along, knowing kind of that we want that and that that is typically a byproduct of the bacteria that we already have. I would assume the most natural way for us to execute this is to give those bacteria the tools to make butyrate correct? Is that where we're going?
You're spot on. You're a smart Dude, you don't know about that?
But I think that I want my, my colon bacteria to produce butyrate.
So this is all a lead up to this one particular article, this to my knowledge. This is the first article to address how the actual process of FMT may affect what we're doing to people.... And when I think back to Helly, I'm like, I think this happened to you. Yeah. So currently, if you take someone's poop. What they do is for a fecal microbial transplant, you take someone's poop, you screen it for the typical pathogens. So you're going to look for AIDS, Hep C, whatever, the same stuff we always do for, for blood and they're gonna say, look, it's it's not there. And then they will label them as a super donor if they have a huge diversity.. so now your proof is actually worth something if you actually want to, I know that you donate a lot of plasma and sperm and everything else that you do to raise money.
It's, it's all I could do to get here today.
Yeah, I know, it's for gas money. But now, if you actually have, if you're a super poop donor, you can you can label that one on there.
It just sounds like another 30 minutes of my day.
So a super donor, somebody that has actually a broad diversity of, of bacteria. And so in Helly's case, what she did is that she received a colonoscopy when they were they did there and then she did two enemas afterwards. Okay, so they did a slurry. So I started getting into it. And I started looking at this. And this particular article made total sense to me. I'm like, why would Helly have such horrible issues when they've used this stool? So this particular Institute in Sweden uses this super donor all the time, they found what they thought was a super donor. These guys showed the problem is, is that the process is to take someone's poop. And you mix it with sterile water.. and then you blend it.
Okay?
You blend it...Meaning that the blending process draws oxygen into the compound.
So now you're facilitating not the action that you wanted. And there's going to be oxygen dissolved in water.
It's the first time ever that somebody has thought about this where they said by the blending process by the actual process of what we're doing for the fecal microbial transplant, we're automatically promoting facultative anaerobes, not obligate anaerobes.
Wow, interesting. And it's in I would imagine by proxy, now you're decreasing the byutrate production of these exact..
100%.
Okay. And that's exactly what we don't want, right?
Yeah. So they actually propose that if you're going to do this, so these, by having the facultative anaerobes means that we're going to have less butyrate. And we're going to have more of the lactate. .. the proprynate and these different short chain fatty acids, which by the way, they have shown that they took mice and as I mentioned earlier, where they when they transplanted, but one of the really cool things is that they show that the level of lactate not only affected the brain, but it affected insulin resistance and blood pressure.
Has to if you think about the way the body responds to high exercise and fatigue, yeah, because that's what we do.
So we're sitting here giving drugs to people were like, wait a minute... is the real way to health to feed the microbiome so that it produces more butyrate? So what they did is they took a mouse model, they went Holy cow, is there a way to produce more butyrate producing bacteria. So they did a fecal microbial transplant test where they did anaerobic slurries.
Okay
I don't know how they do that. But they basically kept oxygen out of the blender somehow.
Okay.
And then they stored it with prebiotics.
Interesting, oh, and allowed them to..
And allowed the bacteria..
To build some butyrate.
To build some butyrate.
Nice
And then they transplanted the butyrate concentration in the mice that they did that with went through the roof.
That's, that's what we want.
That's exactly what we want. So then they looked at that and went, well, what What actually produces the most butyrate and I looked at prebiotics. Prebiotic is and an undigested fiber. And then I started looking at different studies. And as it turns out, people have done this research already..
Polyphenols man.
Polyphenols, so as it turns out, polyphenols, same ones, and Atrantil actually get the bacteria to produce more butyrate.
Shout out to Joe, Joe Botel out in Exeter University in the UK who was doing the research on athletes and talking about butyrate just the same. That's that's exactly why she said that anthocyanidin polythenols were so, so powerful and helping athletes. So anyway, just to piggyback on that..
Our little superweapon just sent me an article this morning that show that proanthocyanidins are extremely protective against Alzheimer's disease through the mitigation of rat reactive oxygen species. But I would counter that and say I I think this is all a big venn diagram. I think it's butyrate ROS or RNS, which is reactive nitrogen species and everything.
That's so funny because that's what Joe was talking about was the ROS. side. And now we got your example with Helly, where we're trying to reduce lactate all the while producing butyrate. Correct?
Correct.
So you're exactly you're right. It's a Venn diagram on why the correct prebiotics to allow the right microbiome to break them down into the beneficial products that your body needs is important. And that's why having enough polyphenols would be essential.
All right. So let's tie this back in what's the point of reading all these articles if you can't sit there and apply it? So one of the things I said at the early the first part of the show is that I love doing this because it forces me to be open.. I just told you why being open is important, right? It forces you to be open to accept new ideas and new Now let's apply this particular article that talked about FMT and how blending it creates oxygen, which leads to the wrong type of bacteria growing
Correct.
We do this in our SIBO people, we tell them to eat low fodmap. We tell them to do SCD we tell them to elemental. So we're trying to protect our small bowel.
So we should increase fodmap.
Well, in the reality, we're starving, the obligate anaerobes that wants to produce butyrate.
Yeah, we're changing their environment..
We're changing their environment!
They're response is to not make buytrate.
This is the aha moment that I had. I went, Oh my gosh, I'm sitting here looking at this we bridged the gap. That's our job is to bridge the gap. Now I've got you know, the low fodmap diet. Yes, it'll make you feel better. But guess what, maybe that's why Pimentel goes now we have blooms. This is tying it all together. This is why now it's a chronic issue. So I'm sitting with my patients going Know what? So when we had Doug Wallen on the show, yeah, Episode 29. him and I talked afterwards and he said when he first started doing a plant based diet to get super bloated, when he powered through it, he's never felt better. I believe we're doing something wrong by telling people to restrict their diet. I think we should muscle through it. I think that we should tolerate the bloating. I think that we should take Atrantils, ifaxim, and neomycin whatever you're going to do carry out that exact thing in the small bowel. But you have to feed your bacteria so that you have the proper bacteria to produce butyrate and decrease the inflammatory response.
That is really interesting. You know, I like analogies. So if you had if you had a dog in the backyard, okay. This is how just kind of picture.
I know you love analogies, but sometimes your analogies I'm just like, what?
Yeah, you got a dog in the backyard right? And you're supposed to be feeding him.
I'm looking at you right now. I kind of feel like Rick and Morty.
Yeah, as long as your Morty. Here we go hop on the spaceship. Let's go. Yeah. So, but I just think of it like a dog that's in the backyard and you're feeding it and you're feeding it and feeding and suddenly one day you don't feed it anymore and you have this nice wooden fence all the way around. That dog doesn't want to die. That dog is going to chew a hole in that fence and destroy your nice little fence and it's going to go and find food somewhere else now that that holes the breach that hole is the illness that hole is the overproduction of lactate that's kind of the..
You're exactly right.
It's it the dog is the bacteria wants to eat..
It's going to survive, one way or the other.
It's going to make its adjustment because it doesn't want to die. And so feeding it the correct meals. The prebiotics is probably a much better avenue than just avoiding everything that it was after.
So expanding on your analogy, the way that I would view it is a little bit like this that you have I'm horrible analogies, I would say. Okay, so you have the same fence. You have the same yard.
Yeah, you're really original.
And you have two seals. And one dog. Okay.
No water.
Yeah. So there's so there's, there's a pool. So that PETA doesn't come. So there's pools so the seals are hanging out, and every day you out there, and you throw fish at the seals and the dog, and the dog doesn't like fish.
Right?
So the dog will chew its way out.
Correct.
The seals are like, Let's have a party, they get on their cell phones and they call more seals.. And then you end up in a backyard full of seals. And now you have to keep feeding fish. So the analogy is similar, but basically you're, you're pre selecting.
Yeah
By doing low fodmap all these other things. You're not you're not having a diverse microbiome, the ideal backyard would be a harmonious zoo.
Right? I'm in a menagerie. Yeah.
Much like your own backyard.
That's right. So many animals.
Would you please explain what a menagerie is? And why..
You could go back to some other episodes and like going back that far, like menagerie is a word for a collection of a bunch of different animals. That's all you need to know.
Yes. So it's, it just got me thinking, I'm like, I'm gonna change how I do. I'm gonna change how I treat SIBO, what we need to do is we need to get rid of the bacteria. And then we need to feed the bacteria. How can we do that? Oh, Mind blown. That's why I think Atrantil has worked over time. So as it turns out, I found a bunch of articles, mouse articles, human articles, movies, other things where I would have people that would come to me and be like, you know, I've taken it for like three months and now I'm better I believe that we fixed SIBO and then we fed the bacteria every single day.
That's I mean, in all honesty, pulling the curtain back, that's not the way that we've been studying the polyphenol effect from the beginning. This is very eye opening, it actually is still, I mean, I can still see how FMT is could probably still be incredibly beneficial, but it has to be delivered and prepared the right way.
Oh, these authors went into a whole different deal where they were trying to figure out how can we improve FMT? And they thought about, like, putting it with antibiotics to decrease certain bacteria, and then what they realized is, you can't play God..
That's a mess.
That's a hot mess.
That's like chemical warfare.
An that's how come they said, why don't we just throw a bunch of prebiotics in there and see what happens.
Let me ask you, so what you described earlier in this example was the slurry so that you know, basically you're taking a solid and your mixing it up or blending it with a bunch of water? is would you say that after reading that, that possibly the delivery where people were using the frozen capsules? That would be a little bit different because the preparation is different and isn't requiring the blending activity or are those capsules prepared that way?
They're to my knowledge are actually all prepared the same way they freeze them. And then they take it.
The the insult is occurring long before the preparation of the delivery. It's, or i'm sorry, is occurring in the preparation, not the delivery.
Yeah, so Dr. Ackerman, my partner, he's done a bunch of these. And we talked about the different methods that he is found. So what Helly will describe what she described in her interview was that when they gave her the enema, she pooped it out right away. They created severe cramping and all this other stuff.
Yeah.
So what my partner Dr. Ackerman does is he goes down with what is called an enteriscope and he goes through the mouth..
Wow that's a long one.
And goes as far as he can go in small bowel. And then they run the fecal slurry, that what he did is he would order super donors, and they would send capsules and then he would melt the capsules and put them in the slurry. And then he would just push it down to the small bowel. Because what you want is to not have that, that urge to poop right away, evacuate. Yeah. So there's all these different ways of doing it. So the reason why I said that she got the colonoscopy the first time and then enema two other times, I'm not really sure that it's stuck. It's so much more complex than we're actually thinking about.
Yeah, it's just but it's wild though. Just thinking that something as simple as the exposure to oxygen doesn't kill the bacteria. It just changes their orientation on what they're going to be doing.
So first time ever I've thought about that. I'm like, man, we just can't take somebody's poop..
And it seems so silly, but it makes the most sense because they're in an anaerobic environment will naturally we're trying to help them but alter it, right? And this is filled with almost 21%, or a little more than 21% oxygen, right where we're sitting right now. So when we do this prep, and we're not keeping it from that if the bacteria doesn't die or doesn't turn dormant, it's going to make an adjustment. Right? So it makes sense.
It's, it's absolutely incredible that these bacteria when you change it when you listen to Helly's story, and very clearly, it's all bacterial related. She had an epigenetic phenomenon which turned on certain genes.
Sure.
These bacteria are communicating with your body. Do we live for them? Or do they live for us?
I think we're vehicles for those little bit of guys.
It's crazy.
Yeah. So you better take care of them. I mean, they're gonna be and if you don't.
I listened to a podcast with Dave Asprey. We had a my microbiologist on from Stanford, and the guy was like, it's like, Look The thing that we don't really get, and this is I mean, the guy lives and breathes, colonic bacteria. This is his whole life. He goes, the thing that we're, it's dizzying that when you change one volume of a bacteria, they send signals to others. And we're learning that downstream signaling affects something else. So you think that you want to take one probiotic. No.
They're going to make adjustments.
They're going to make adjustments and they do this. So I asked, Dave asked him, he's like, so what do you do is I dude the key is just eat a healthy diet. I mean, it sounds so stupid, but one of the smartest microbiologist in the world is like, I don't know what to do. Just eat good.
Yeah, yeah, but I mean, it sounds simple, but it probably makes the most sense.
So here we have the situation where there is If you have the wrong type of bacteria I've got so many studies in my head right now that I don't want to vomit all of it out right now.
Sure.
But there was there was a study which showed that when you have an overgrowth of facultative anaerobes they will actually produce higher levels of ghrelin. Oh, what's ghrelin?
So you've got, ghrelin can wait, I'm sorry, I'll make sure don't get this backwards and the drive to eat and then the filled, so your drive to eat will go up.
Your drive to eat will grow up, you'll never be full.
Right?
They produce frickin ghrelin.
So that's going to lead to some instances of obesity. And then of course, when you can't find enough food, you end up making poor food choices. We know that. And then if you end up making poor food choices, and you're never being satiated, or you don't have satiety, you continue to consume low density, caloric foods and it's pretty much what happens with the overproduction and ghrelin, right?
Yeah, absolutely. So what happens is ghrelin, so there's a hormone called leptin, which tells us that we're full.. and there's a hormone called ghrelin, which says that you're hungry. And now we're showing that certain bacteria produce it. So you have these people that are like, I'm not .. ghrelin does more than that. It tells you that you're hungry, but it also lowers your basal metabolic rate and doesn't feel.
Oh yeah.
So you have all these people that are like, um I'm, I'm eating less, I'm gaining weight, and it all comes down to bacteria. So there's a whole lot to be said about. Okay, now we need to if I can increase your diversity. So now I'm getting into the science of how do I combine the polyphenols with the proper diet to increase the butyrate maybe this can work its health span is the important thing. But people are on short term basis. So if you're gaining weight, maybe it's a bacterial change.
Fantastic information, but it makes sense.
It's crazy.
Truth is we're truly going to get into the science of how but if you already buying into the idea that your microbiome is important, this is this is just the precipice. This is the very beginning of why it's important. It's way more than just I just need a healthy colon. It's your entire body.
Oh dude, don't even get me started here because now I went down a rabbit hole where I found out that these different short chain fatty acids actually affect something called the vagus nerve, which is the grand highway between the gut and the brain for sure. Definitely. I want to find a vegus nerve expert. Let's bring him on. And let's talk about that because I think that the vagus nerve being stimulated may be a way to control all of it. It's the master regulator. Sure, it results in motility issues that results in mood it results in all these things. I'm I thought that I would like end up with a conclusion here and now I have more questions and I started with.
Well, just a side note because I don't want to have any more questions if this is the first time you ever heard of the word vagus nerd, v a g u s not like Las Vegas, it's vagus. And if I remember right, that is Latin for wandering, and it's because it innervates or it touches so many different points all throughout our body is cranial nerve number 10 of the 12 cranial nerves, so vagas nerve, wandering nerve and it handles basically your rest and digest. So it is a lot more than that too.
So for odd fact, a minute from Eric wandering nerve. I didn't know that.
There you go. That's why that's why it's called vagas. v a g u s It just means that it goes everywhere.
So this is for everybody out there that is struggling with SIBO struggling with if you have digestive issues, heck, if you have mental issues, maybe it has nothing to do with your what we thing which is serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine.
Yeah, that's right. We think yeah.
We think, maybe it comes down to your bacteria. Maybe you need to feed your bacteria so that we can get everything back in balance. Yeah, it's, it's crazy. I've been to I mean, every conference I go to nobody's talking like this. nobody's talking.
No Heck, I didn't even heard of..
Dude, because we sit here. Nobody's doing the research like you have to dig deep to find this one little obscure article where they went, we blended it. And we showed this.
I can't wait to try out Google to see if anything comes up on facultative anaerobes that's not something that I've ever really been presented with.
I feel like this kind of stuff needs to get out there. I feel like this is why we're doing this. I feel like this is why we mean I love gut check project because it makes me a better doctor and makes me more open to new ideas.
Definitely.
But this is this particular thing blew my mind. Poor Helly in Sweden, is like many of my patients. She did not She did something a little more extreme, which is the microbial transplant and then she ended up with these different diseases. that's legit. This is disrupted her life. If you're catching the tail end of this show go back and watch somebody desperately seeking for help. And I'm going to fix her. Well, I'm not her doctor said multiple times on the on the two hour interview. I'm not her doctor.
We're gonna work to help other people.
We're going to work to help other people help her.
That's right..Well, fascinating, really all the way through fascinating..
Nerdy huh?
Yeah, nerdy but uh, for those that are nerdy KBMD health we do have in development, three research pages that people can turn to one specifically for CBD one soon, specifically for rectal bleeding. And then the last one is going to be just for dedicated research where we will keep a lot of this information. So that pretty much does it while I'm looking at can look at a computer.
Oh because I'm just I'm OCD and because my lactate levels are high in my brain right now. Yeah, I just want to make sure that we're actually like doing everything filming correctly because there's something on the computer that's not normally there and I'm, I'm worried that everything we're doing is not working.
Well that's kind of scary. Well, hey, that's going to do it for Episode 31.
Now, you know what I'm gonna do with that. I'm gonna go feed my obligate anaerobes and increase my butyrate calm down and assume that the computer is doing what it's supposed to do.
That's what we're gonna do.
And not worry.
No, no worries here. Thank y'all very much for Episode 31 on fecal microbial transplant. You got something to add?
I'm gonna do one, one more thing. Okay, so everybody just goes to Amazon, but for real, for real, for real. Go to lovemytummy, lovemytummy.com/
/KBMD.
KBMD. Why? Because it's a huge discount there. And we need to start showing people that we're going to come together as a community, we're going to help each other. So that's why.
Guaranteed two day delivery from there also. No kidding.
No kidding.
No kidding.
I want to get on there right now.
Yeah for sure. Thank you very much Episode 31 in the books.
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Welcome to gut check project. It's episode number 30. I'm here with your host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. Eric Rieger here sitting now with the founders of unrefined bakery in the DFW area. It's Anne Hoyt and Taylor Nicholson Thank y'all so much for joining us today.
You're welcome.
Founders? We got the stars of unrefined bakery here!
The stars of unrefined bakery.
The stars!
We're glad to be here, y'all.
I feel like every single show we just keep taking it up a notch. I'm like, how are we gonna beat this and you go I know how we're gonna beat it. We're gonna bring Anne and Taylor on.
People that bring cupcakes.
Yes, yes. cupcakes that won't make you sick.
There you go.
Yeah. And that is no joke. We're going to get to that obviously later in the show unrefined bakery being an incredible place that honestly it's great food that happens to not make you sick. I don't care that they feature that it's gluten free. And that it can be soy free or corn free. They have all of the things to take care of people who have food allergies, the fact is, the food is great. It just happens to be made of awesome stuff.
Well, I'll be totally honest Eric, Eric loves your store he's been eating your get your food I have not heard of it. So this morning I'm in clinic and I had a bunch of people and I said well I'm unfortunately have to keep moving here I have to get to go to a show and I explained who I'm doing the show with it. Oh, I love unrefined bakery I go every time I go to a vegan conference through there every time I do this every single patient talked about you guys and I'm like Okay, we got some rock stars showing up today. I better have my game face on.
Yeah,
Well so quick. We just have to do it to pay the bills right quick. Don't forget that. Every gut check project it's sponsored by Atrantil lovemytummy.com/kbmd to get your discount of course it's polyphenols created by the gentleman right across the table from here Dr. Ken Brown. Anything to add for Atrantil before we talk to the ladies of unrefined bakery,
Only thing to add is that everything that you guys tell your clients we also tell our clients which is we're trying to develop a healthy gut which leads to a healthy lifestyle which leads to anti aging which leads to health span. It's no longer about lifespan. It's about health span. How do we live a happy, healthy life where we share in this with everyone? And the relationship that you two have is so similar to what Eric and I have. I'm actually Eric father, and we started a business together.
You look great!
It's the polyphenols.
It's an anti aging molecule.
It's working!
Well, you want to know what's really cool. Eric's a grandfather also. Yeah.
You're a great grandfather.
Great grandfather.
That's amazing.
It's news to everyone.
So great. Breaking news! Here we go with it.
I think that the I think that teaming up with unrefined bakery and discussing the issues of gluten and celiac disease is so close to my heart. So what I thought we could do today is I want to talk about celiac disease. We always geek out a little bit and clearly you to know your stuff on some science. Your sister's a physician. Yeah, so so you guys talk science at home. We'll talk a little science. We'll talk a little about celiac in general, get people up to speed get everybody's like, celiac. Do I have a wheat allergy? Do I have celiac disease? Do I have gluten sensitivity? Oh, it's all BS. Who cares? That's all just Hollywood stuff. We're gonna get into all that?
And something to add a part that Ken doesn't always get to see is whenever we refer a patient to visit with our dietitians here locally like Susan linky unrefined bakery is always a stop that she's continuously recommended for the last several years because when people tried to bridge over to enjoying foods that they can then safely enjoy. Unrefined bakery has been a great, you know, beacon that you don't have to give up things that tastes great. You really don't. So let's start with the science. I mean, y'all y'all been a great savior for a lot of people..
Yes, I'm gathering that. You've passed that down.
We're gonna let we're gonna let you guys go into the whole story about this talk about food but because this is the gut check Project, our whole motto is you check your ego at the door, and we can talk about anything. So today we're gonna talk a little bit about celiac disease I just mentioned in clinic everybody knew you guys. One of the things overview, it's a common autoimmune issue. If you're listening to this show, and you're like, ahhh celiac, blah, blah, blah, I'm not going to do this. Basically, what happens is your body starts attacking your small bowl, but pay very close attention to this show. Because as it turns out, the prevalence is increasing. A lot. We used to think it was like one in 3000. The most recent studies have shown that it's like one in 184. That was an Italian study that just came out not too long ago. We now know that 15% percent of new celiac diagnoses aren't people older than age 65. So you were quoting Alessio Fasano right before we started this, I had a patient today that said, you know, what, is it possible that you can develop this later in life and I'm like 15% of the new diagnoses are happening at age over 65. So if you think that you don't know or you will never get this. Pay attention to this because there is a chance that you could have this. So you may have celiac not even know it. We're going to get into that. This is not an allergy by definition. It's and it's a little bit different than gluten sensitivity. We're going to talk about all that and clarify it. But before we do this Eric is a huge history buff.
Learned it from dad.
So Oh, one other quick thing we always forget to do this. Although I'm a medical doctor, you're crna and you provide medical care. The show is not intended to treat diagnose or do anything that they should but we're just not just this is for fun. Yeah, but you're gonna learn a lot.
If you have a funny looking toe get it checked out.
Yeah, if you've got some unusual growth, go to unrefined bakery first.
Do go to unrefined bakery first. We're gonna make you feel better. Buy a cupcake and feel better.
You know what, that's it. Recommendation if you do happen, this is not diagnosing or treating, but it will make you feel better if you notice an unusual growth swing by unrefined bakery before you go to the doctor to get that diagnosis of it as you're munching. Oh,
Take one to your doctor and bring some for their office. they'll treat you better..
All right. So what I would like to do is our first ever history quiz. I'm going to sign awards and points on this one. So we're going to do a little history quiz. So the this is going to be about the history of celiac disease. All right. In 1888, celiac was first described by this person, Eric, you get first crack at the answer. 1888 celiac was described by this person. I don't know his name. I just assumed that it's Oh, you're pointing at something.
Oh, it looks like was it Samuel? Oh, you want me to say Bernie Sanders.
But so my son is horrible at improv. Just absolutely horrible.
I thought you wanted me to guess. So I was thinking...
You probably would have guesseed Bernie Sanders...1888.
Well, he was there,
Right Trump is happy with that answer.
Tylor what would be your answer in 1888.
I'm probably going to go with Samuel Gee the English pediatrician. Sorry.
Yeah, little closer there.
Okay got it.
The English pediatrician. And what's your thoughts on that?
I mean, Articus Decapidocious in 200 ad.
Wow.
Just saying I actually knew that.
She did know that.
And why do you Why do you know that?
I wrote a paper for the Baylor journal in 2014.
Nice.
We've got some Smart people on the show today Eric.
Definitely say it was a Greek physician, correct.
He was Yeah, he cut open the stomach and was looking at how wheat interacted with it and didn't totally understand it, but knew that it definitely caused trouble called it coeliac or something.
Second century AD. They were already realizing and we have people today going that's BS.
Right? Right.
Yeah. It's crazy. But I mean, you know, humans have only really eaten gluten for 12,000 years, probably. And so, I mean, bernie Sanders was there too. Yeah. Poor, Bernie,
He probably invented the paleo diet.
Eric, I have a question for you. Okay. Something occurred in the second world war that allowed us to realize that celiac disease was caused by gluten. Eric, why do you think that is?
Well, Ken, is this when Wonder Bread donated millions of loaves and the Allied forces shot the Germans with ultra refined white bread causing diabetes,
It would have worked and would have delayed the end of the war. Good guess i'm not saying you're wrong.
That was really organic.
You know, I know.
You know. And so all right, Anne I'm gonna I'm gonna throw to you.
It was the shortages, the food shortages and the incidences of gut disease went down. In the absence of eating the food they previously eaten right that cause trouble. So without eating the food they were accustomed to eating their gut troubles went away and absence of food so
yeah food allergies discovered for sure.
We're not just Baker's
No.
Oh my gosh, we have. So one last question before we do it, but if you have any history questions or history buff, make sure you pop into unrefined bakery, and throw out random questions,
make sure you're asked for Anne on that one.
Alright, so it was actually a Dutch doctor that noticed that his patients were getting better during that. So the last question, this is not going to be completely academic session. The last history question, Eric, how did this Dutch doctor figure out that gluten was the cause.
I believe he locked his kids in cages and gavaged them with pretzels. And that's just wanted to see how sick they got.
Okay, so we've had several shows where we described how animals have been gavaged and so Eric really likes the word gavaged.
Especially when it's written out for me. I love it a lot.
No, you're wrong. So I'll throw it. I'll throw this one to Taylor.
So pretty close to that.
Thank you.
He did. He did take these kids. And he gave the celiac children and he gave them wheat. And then he just weighed the kids poop. And he looked for fat in it. See if they were passing that fat.
Yeah. Did you know that?
I did not know this.
You didn't know that part?
I didn't came up. Didn't came up.
Yeah. And then so...
that's awesome. That was said.
He figured out that the toxic part of the food was it was alcohol soluble, and then they figured this out. So it's very fascinating that it's been growing for a long time. And now we're finally at this point. So celiac disease now with it, we know the history. I just want to give a quick recap as a physician about celiac disease so we can get off the science and talk about the goodness that is sitting on our table right here.
Absolutely. So just to introduce, reintroduce again, it's Anne and Taylor, her daughter I was exposed to walking into unrefined bakery a couple years ago in Frisco. And it was awesome. My wife is gluten free. And I just happened to stop in I grabbed a few treats. I was like, man, I hope hope this is good because you don't always get a great tasting product whenever it's gluten free.
That's so true. That's the common occurence.
When I took it home it was instant delectable delight for for her. She's like this tastes fantastic. Are you sure it's safe? Right? They said it was. She felt great. Came back. We've we've been customers ever since.
Great. Do you shop in our Frisco location? Mostly?
Mostly because it's the closest one to our GI center.
Awesome.
So it's, it's just up the road on Preston for us to get to it. So yeah, it's great. So Ken you want to ask them how they got it all started?
Yeah, absolutely. So celiac disease. We already kind of mentioned that. It's super prevalent. It's an autoimmune process that's happening. How do you guys know so much about celiac disease?
Well, we're kind of science nerds to the core and Taylor's little sister Aaron got sick. In college. She broke her ankle and got got mersa in her bone marrow. And the treatment for mersa was very harsh. And once she got over that, which was awesome, she got just sicker and sicker and sicker, had strep six times one year and mono twice that year and was really failing to thrive and then began bleeding internally. took her to a doctor. He was amazingly efficient and asked her her heritage, and we're Swedish. And he's like, let me check for celiac disease. Sure enough, he biopsied her, and she had it and then we read about it. And I was like, Wow, you've been symptom taylor's been symptomatic since birth And I've been symptomatic since about 18 or 19 years of age with it really increasing after pregnancy. So we just were like, well, it's just food. Let's just stop eating it. So we did.
And I was diagnosed with milk protein intolerance as an infant where I was taken off breast milk and put on solids by what eight months, eight and half months, roughly something like that. I mean, I had quite a few gut troubles. I'm surprised she had more children. Honestly, I had extreme colic. Right. So she'd been off a dairy for ever. And then Aaron, like said been symptomatic forever and we all went off gluten together and never truly never looked back to see what was just a remarkable change in all of our bodies.
Did you have trouble getting pregnant?
I had eight miscarriages.
Interesting.
Isn't that so interesting? Yeah. 800-900% increase in miscarriage.
I don't even have to kick any science. They're gonna do all the science for me. That is actually one of the things that I asked my patients. Have you had miscarriages Have you have trouble getting pregnant? And
I did not. But I've been gluten free long before I had my children. I've been gluten free for I mean, and obviously that never came up like never came up.
So when you said that your daughter was bleeding internally, you mean that she was anemic and they were doing the workup for anemia or she was actually actively bleeding.
So, yeah, so we just took her right into it to a gastroenterologist that did a biopsy. That's the first thing you did. So she got...
wasn't in her infectious disease doctor first who passed her on, given her heritage. I thought he looked at her and was newly out of school and was like, you know, your doctor from
her doctor was newly out of school and asked
her heritage, you're so blonde and blue, oh, you're hypoxic. We need to get some air in you.
You know, Northern European.
But it's different now. With with getting wheat across the world now it's equally distributed across the globe.
But this is mean, right? 15 years ago. They knew a little about it.
Super interesting, so we didn't even hesitate. We just went off gluten.
Let me let me ask you a question as a mom because I have a 15 year old a 13 year old Eric has an 18 year old and 17
almost 16.
Almost almost 16 year old. When you see a child that's sick that it just it takes everything out.
You just see it like I see or I see kids that I'm like, Oh, you have celiac disease. Like I can just see it. I know what Aaron looked like as a baby. And her eyes were always Like terrible circles since she and Taylor always had like skin you know skin stuff and Aaron was just her hair didn't grow right like it just she was just pale and not well, and once she went off gluten it just it just changed. It was just it was just remarkable for all of us but more so she was truly she was just wasn't okay. She had I mean we I was symptomatic since birth but I had different different symptoms that my sister had and you had pretty much self selected already. Like you just didn't eat bread anymore. I wouldn't. I was kind of self selected as a kid. I was like, I don't like that.
So you knew that it was making you feel bad.
From a very young age young before I probably could even correlate it together. I know that I stopped eating those things and she'd be like, why don't you one pizza as I kid.
Because we lived on it before you loved pizza.
Erin and I ate more. Like a lot of people you eat. You eat more of what is making you sick because you don't understand it. You know your body kind of craves that thing.
That's not uncommon so Aaron and I extra bread and pasta.
We seem to we seem to see both sides of it. And with our customer base like we'll talk to moms whose kids have, you know, are celiac but also maybe have other combined allergies and she'll say it's really weird. He stopped eating these things even before we knew he was allergic. And I was like, well, we kind of have used the term self selecting for that because we see it's really frequently like kids, like my older son doesn't tolerate dairy. Well, he doesn't eat dairy. He doesn't choose it. He doesn't eat it doesn't have an allergy. No, but he just doesn't tolerate it well, so it's interesting how they you already sort of know that it's not a doesn't jive well with your system. So you avoid it. I did the same thing without even knowing it.
Well, that's kind of how my wife started. She She was like, I, I feel bad and I don't know why I feel bad. And then suddenly, she starts drawing associations to whether having to be enjoying a beer or bread or pizza. Then suddenly, like what what do all these things have in common? I need to go get checked out.
But back in the day because I can remember seeing a Dr. Phil Donahue show. And they had somebody on like way I don't even know
The other Dr. Phil.
Yes, like so long ago. Oh, he wasn't a doctor. He was phil donahue. My bad it was the Phil Donahue show.
I put two generations together. Anyway, a long time ago probably in that
Which one had the mustache?
Donahue? No, they both do right?
Did Donahue have one?Did Donahue have one?
I don't think Donahue had one.
He just had white hair at the age of 20
They were talking about it wheat allergy and I can remember thinking well, who would be allergic to bread like it was so not in our consciousness. You know, like I just what and with her with her colic. I was I remember for me, I was eating a lot of eggs and lot of dairy because food is good for you. Right? And, and I ate a lot because I was nursing her. And I kind of cut it out for a week and she got better. I thought, well, it can't be that. So I didn't keep it going. Because it just never they that was 1982 and three Like it are three and four. They just they weren't talking about this stuff back then. I mean they were but it was, you know, there were some diagnosed cases of celiac disease than as there were, you know, in the 20s. And earlier but not, not in the mainstream.
I would say people that still don't quite understand the seriousness that can happen from high gluten exposure to people that have celiac disease, they still dismiss it as it not being a real thing,
Right. There are patients with celiac disease who dismiss it as not being a real thing. 'm sure you see it often. They'll be like, Well, last week, I just say whatever I wanted. And I don't even feel bad. I'm like, well, then you must have asymptomatic celiac disease, but your gut hates you. Right? Right. I mean, I don't tell them that but that's what I think.
So everybody has a story about their gluten and I mentioned mine so my researcher that helped me develop Atrantil. So, you know, our whole thing with Brandi was that she was working for me and she had enamel problems she kept going to the dentist and having teeth issues. And then we were going to enroll her in a study and her liver Tests were up. And she was in she was sick and she had his weird rashes and she'd been worked up she was came from Iowa where the Iowa doctor said, Oh, you're fine, it's IBS. It's all fine. And then we're trying to enroll her in the study she had increased liver tests, ended up testing or figuring out she has celiac disease. So then I, out of courtesy, after we diagnosis, she started feeling better, I would go to lunch with her and I'd be gluten free, I wouldn't have these other issues. So and I checked myself with my least blood test, I don't have celiac but then I just started thinking, Wait a minute, this whole concept of gluten you can call whatever you want gluten sensitivity, gluten intolerance, all the other things. So when you say that the spectrum, and anybody that's listening to this, it says you know I have celiac disease, but I cheat all the time. Well, you have the risk of developing all kinds of stuff. lymphoma, you have the risk of developing osteoporosis you may not be running to the bathroom all the time. You may end up with UV itis which is an infection in the eye. This can trigger and Here's the biggest thing that I tell all my patients, you have one autoimmune disease. Now you are at risk for every other autoimmune disease, we have to control the one right so that you don't end up with thyroiditis, autoimmune hepatitis, ankylosing spondylitis, and all these others. So when people come into your store, and they're like, yeah, yeah, I like your cupcakes. But I have celiac that I don't tolerate it. My answer to everyone that I talked to is do you want lymphoma? Do you want to develop ankylosing spondylitis? And now we're seeing in the future, that if people carry this, it leads to inflammation, we know that inflammation leads to dimensia, things like that. So protect the gut, protect your body.
But people will come to that in their own time in their own way. You know, you can't I don't preach gluten.
Well, we obviously don't. I mean, we're not doctors. We're not offering medical advice in our stores. They ask our experience and what we've seen from our customers and we give them you know, stories and tales of what has helped us or some of our other customers, but we're obviously not going to tell them well What we may do is say, Well, you know, we have an awesome pizza crust that you can take home and make your life easier to where you don't feel like you need to order out. And you can still stay gluten free. We tried to just let them know about the options we have, because it is very challenging. I mean, I think my mom and my sister and myself approach being gluten free from a perspective that not everyone does. I think we looked at and we're like, Huh, well, celiac disease, probably probably the best disease you can have. It's completely manageable. It doesn't give you bad side effects if you do it properly. And it's not that difficult to wrap your brain around, doing it properly, at least from how we approached it. I mean, you have to accept that it is what it is. and food is medicine to us. Right. So
let's look at it beyond and not being the worst disease. You turned it into a pillar of a great business.
Yeah, but But even before we didn't do this for about four years like, one guy came in he goes, isn't this the worst thing that ever happened to you? And I said, No. I said long before we started this company. No, it was the best thing Because look at what it did. I mean, I was what I thought was just super healthy 48 year old like I was, I was in great shape went off a gluten and I was 20 within two weeks
I mean you weren't you still shad fibromyalgia and other things and joint pain.
It all went away.
Well once you were gluten free Yea.
Yeah. right but i mean i think relatively speaking at 48 compared to other 48 year olds, I was remarkably healthy and then and I thought it was just age I'm like, Oh, I'm aging wasn't aging at all to heck with that.
So why why would you eat something that making making you sick? Yeah, yeah, you know,
I try not to.
As I drink my Dr. Pepper still every now and then.
I mean, I know we will talk about that. We're gonna get into that. There's a there was a podcast that I like to listen to as a as entrepreneurs as people podcast called how I built this.
Love it.
I want to know how you guys built this
Awesome. So my background. So my grandfather, mom's dad had a franchise of restaurants that he started in late 50s that he became a franchisee for in the late 50's. So restaurants are sort of in our blood, but never something I thought I wanted to do. Restaurant hours were not something I had an interest in.
I've been there done.
I studied finance and accounting and I used to do litigation consulting. It was what brought me to Dallas. She came to Dallas shortly after I did. My sister graduated was, you know, off at college and beyond. So she moved. And well got out.
I hated my job.
I did not hate my job.
She denied her job, but it was grueling and I hated my job and I'd always begged and
what was your job?
I came down here as a banker I'd been working with my dad had been a stockbroker, previously I have an econ degree. But I hated my bank job that brought me to Texas but I loved that I came to Texas and I was like, I'd rather die than keep this job like I've got to do something different. And so she began making these food bars for Erin in college because Erin's now celiac and needs food grab and go food well back then
If you believe it it was before there were bars on the market
You were making the bars?
For my sister. i always cooked.
So she was making food bars
She was tired of just eating you know, nuts and dried fruit juices all she had available. This was years ago so Lara bar did not exist.
So she Taylor then she packages them and gets this cute little gold T and then she puts a label on the back and I was like, and then she gives him to people as wedding gifts as well. What's it called? I don't know whatever get all. Yeah, so then I said what it was my idea to start a bakery She goes, we'll do it. Because if you don't, I'm going to do this. And I was just terrified to bake I had tried several recipes and they had just failed miserably. One day I did like four different recipes of cornbread and a several recipes of brownies and they were just the worst things ever. And I've been baking since I was little and I have been throwing away food since like 1963 or something. So anyway, I was like fine, I will learn how to bake so I just really jumped into it started reading about the different properties of the different flowers. Different flowers have different properties. And I figured out about some blends by looking like stealing some recipe ideas from a lady. And then I took that recipe and I morphed it and took some of the ingredients out. And then we just started baking, I made some bread that I thought would work and it worked. And it was a great
So we we adapted old family recipes that were passed down from grandmother's that she had quick breads and dinner breads and things like that and just adjusted them to being gluten free and dairy free. Once we figured out how to do the flowers
I've always been dairy free and dairy free since I was diagnosed dairy free at like, you know, eight months. So we started adjusting all the recipes, and we realized, hey
so you're able to take old family recipes and convert them.
That's exactly how we did it.
Our first 19 recipes. Were family recipes.
They were sort of our original, we still have almost all of them.
That's nice.
That is so cool. There's legacy in this there's tradition. That is awesome.
Like my mother baked her mother baked her mother like it's just been my whole mother's whole side or huge bakers and then my dad's side are super bright, smart. Academic kind of people. And it just works. She and I are kind of the combination of both sides, which is
I actually don't like to bake, which is comedy considering it's my business in fact. I love. I love helping people and I love serving others. And I love our product. And I love what we stand for. But you're the nutrition side.
Yeah. And I like to make everything healthier. And that's definitely of interest to me and always has been so she took family recipes, and then I would adjust it, we would make it vegan or we would cut the sugar we would increase you know, whatever it is that we were doing.
So I would make sure that it tastes like if it didn't taste good. Like it had to be good and gluten free first. And then if we could decrease, we could take out the dairy. And she got she was so good at it that nothing has dairy in it anymore, but we just got great at taking the dairy out, but it and then we lowered the sugar significantly. But if it doesn't taste good, you're not going to eat it. So there's that balance of Yes, it's gluten and soy and dairy and corn free and 50% less sugar and it's organic, but does it taste good? And so you have to draw that line and having Enough sugar that is still palatable while knowing that you don't want people living on sugar. So we're really good yin and yang of making sure that the nutrition is is acceptable. While it's still really satisfying.
Optimal while edible.
Yeah. Could be a T shirt and find optimal while edible. Edible while we will.
Yeah, sure. So we started we started just the two of us
What year was that?
August 2010. Well, March March, we started subleasing space of 2010. January through March, we sort of worked on the website, ordered labels, things, things of that nature.
You did what I'm sorry?
Our first customer came in and we literally went, so we were subleasing. 6 days a month. So...
We were subleasing space from him. She would like a private chef. He did South Beach diet. I mean, this is a long time ago. I don't even think it's still a thing. I mean, nobody even knows what that is today. But so she was she wasn't a gluten free facility. But she was.
I mean, it was
She was free because she was happy. She didn't do any grains. So we sublease space from her one day a week and then two weeks,
Every other Friday,
Two days. So six days a month is when we started. And that was the end of March of 2010. I think the second week we were there as somebody walked in.
Yeah. This tall thin guy and we're like, but he's like, I this is this where I can buy gluten free products. And we were like, what? How did you find? I mean, we have a website but..
Let's back up a little bit. I'm super into how businesses are built. So are you guys sitting in your kitchen, making this stuff together and then taking it to this place?
I was in my kitchen doing most of our recipes and she was in her kitchen doing the food bar and we honestly thought the food bars were going to take off and that the other stuff wasn't because she found outlets. She sent food bars or hand delivered food bars to a lot of people they weren't podcast back then
no food blogs,
food blogs, so she wouldn't in a food blog situation for I don't know 15 years, right.
So we did That and then we did. We went to a celiac support group in Dallas and then we went to one in Fort Worth or North Richland hills
North Richland hills,
and brought our food. And at one of those two interesting things happen there. The first question they asked was, are you soy free? And we're like, Huh, am she and I never had had an issue with soy and really weren't paying attention to things besides dairy and gluten. And we're like well no but we can be because it happened in both groups that we met with, so we figured it must be important. And then at one of the meetings, a blogger for the Dallas Morning News, mom's blog was at one of the meetings. So then she came to us and asked if she could interview us,
and she's celiac.
Nice.
Yeah, she's celiac. So she came in, she interviewed us and did a story in the Dallas Morning News, moms blog, which got maybe the most hits they'd ever gotten on a story,
That's what they said comments.
It had like 80 comments on the story. So then Nancy Chernin with the Dallas Morning News.
Well Hold up. So we were baking in our original kitchen separate on our very own kitchens, we had already quit our jobs. We quit our jobs at the end of 2009.
Is that was that a real difficult decision? You no, because you wanted it out was this for you?
So I got married the end of August Excuse me, I'm sorry.
You can always a hit that we have little we have Eric and I always do that.
Sometimes.
So you didn't you didn't teach me that? Now, I know
I was so much more interested in the history quiz.
So I got married august of 2009. And I quit my job in November, I think in my husband like August 29. So I mean, we're talking like a month later. And my husband's like, Yeah, I am. I'm not sure if I've married a banker. Like last I checked, he were doing litigation consulting. What happened to that?
Yeah, but your hours were horrific.
No they were there was it wasn't something we wanted. It wasn't sustainable to have a family. So you know, I quit my lucrative job. And now I'm an entrepreneur and I work all the time. So It's even better,
Make less money and work all the time.
But I love it so and it does it. It fills me
Do you think like you're helping more people suing them or feeding them good food?
Undoubtedly we are making a huge difference in people's lives. And it's awesome. So we baked in our own kitchens, yada yada, yada. end of March we started subleasing space. That blog came out maybe in April?
It came out was super, super soon,
Super quick. I mean, we tried to put ourselves out there but this is kind of this is before social media. I mean, Facebook existed, but it was like a college. But you know, it wasn't even for the general public. So it was a totally different situation. Which is even hard to believe today. But so then, in June, the people we are subleasing space from
No, no, no, we came out in the Dallas Morning News on a Sunday on the back page of the Sunday edition of the of the whatever you open the newspaper up and we're the were the full page on the back page, titled building a better bakery like i'll never forget it. On that Tuesday, we sell out Oh my god, people were so excited. Wednesday they tell the lady releasing from that she loses her lease. And we're like, what? They won't let us put a note on the door. And so suddenly she's closed. Luckily, we had already at leased a second space.
We had seen the success already. And we're like, okay, we just want to we can do this. So we were Yeah, we wanted to just prove ourselves. So we were baking one day a week, we would bake, we would freeze.
And we were so tired. Do you remember, we were so tired. We thought it was so hard.
It was all it was. And so then we we went ahead and signed the lease and started started construction and all of that on our first location. And then we lost our sublease because they lost their lease the day after we came out in the Dallas Morning News, crazy. And we and we were closed for two months, because we had nowhere to go. So the timing was awesome.
This is like with Atrantil we get knocked off. Yeah, we've been like knocked off Google after we did like a big podcast and you're like, Oh, look at that. Everyone's looking for us and you can't find us.
Yeah, wonderful.
I remember years. years later, somebody came in and said, Oh my god, you're still in business. We just assumed that you'd gone out because it happens all the time in new startups, and especially like there have been several gluten free bakeries that have started and stopped. And it's, you know, starting your own company is there's nothing easy about it.
It's not easy.
Definitely no easy.
There's no rules.
So we opened our we opened our first what we call our flagship, it was called White Rock. We used to bake there, and we had a retail presence. We were open Tuesday through Friday.
No, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, at first
We're like we have a specialty
Just You two?
Yes.
Still?
We might have hired one person by then our first girl was Anna, who came back us after 3 culinary degrees.
Anna is still with us and we love her.
She came back to us.
Wow.
I know she's massively overqualified. But she's awesome.
But it was us for quite a bit and then Anna came on and then we gradually started just hiring people. And then a year later, we doubled that space.
We took over the lease next door and expanded ourselves. So then we had, you know, more retail, more seating
That's when we add coffees and tea's and smoothies and sandwiches.
We doubled our freezer capacity so something we do which is no secret within about an hour of production every product we make is frozen. It's packaged and frozen. So gluten free products on the market are sold frozen This is no mystery. If it's not sold frozen then it has a lot of stabilizers in it which is not something we believe in so we don't do that.
say that one more time because...
So if it's sitting on a shelf...
It's full of junk.
It has a lot of stabilizers in it. stabilizers preservatives
chemicals
bread is bread, you know bakery sell day old bread, bread is not meant to sit around for weeks because it's it molds it has
or it gets dry and it's hard and nasty
they sell and they sell daily bread for a reason. day old so we freeze all of our product as soon as it's cooled so it's perfect for you. It to enjoy for you know we say a year. I've definitely found product in my freezer from several years before that that we consume in my home.
Now do I say that to our customers should you eat your product three years later? I mean do what you want. We say it's great for a year. So, but we freeze all of our products so by then we needed another freezer so we doubled our space. And then...
Sure.
From a business perspective, sorry to interrupt but I love the idea of the entrepreneurship. No No, no, I just, it's as somebody who's an entrepreneur that is in the throes of it I just bogged down by the like, I want to know like what the relationship was, did you have to have somebody analyze the food after a year to say this is safe for a year.
No, we did our own I'll take this part when we we used to bake something we would put it on the counter, we'd wrap it and put it on the counter, we'd put it in the fridge and we put it in the freezer, we would date it and then we would watch to see how how it landed you know and see how long it stayed soft and whatever on the counter and it always got hard long before it molded. Now like now, a sweet bread pumpkin banana bread. It'll mold before it gets hard because it's so moist, but we figured out how it would hold. And that's how we know like we found something in my freezer three and a half years later that was dated and we knocked the ice off of it and ate it and it was amazing.
It's just sort of a interesting trial personally i mean
but we did so we haven't had anything like we're not gluten free certified because we're dedicated gluten free and like who was it that said well I mean they say they are. We've just developed this reputation where people know that if we say it's this then they believe it is.
But we also don't have cross contamination in our space with gluten and soy. It doesn't exist.
It's dedicated.
we built out. It used to be like a retail facility that is our production facility. And every product we buy is a certified gluten free product and by product i mean a raw gradient like organic brown rice flour, organic almond meal, like these things are already certified gluten free on their own, and that's everything we purchase. And we're in dedicated gluten free facility and what most people don't understand these certifications for organic or non GMO or or gluten free our per product they're not..
I was gonna have eric comment on this because this is the stuff we would would you just tell the audience really quick, so you don't have gluten free stamp on it. And there's a reason you don't have the non GMO paleo friendly keto. explain to the audience what these mean,
You have to pay a license to even have those monitors applied to your label
Per product.
And then some of them if it's what does it do the wheat foundation of celiac Foundation, not only do you pay the license fee, you pay 1% of all of your sales on top of that, because they..
I mean it's prohibitive for us,
especially, especially with the number of products we have if we if we were just trying to distribute five products across the US. Absolutely, they would be certified gluten free. And if and when we ever go that direction, they will be as well. However, am I going to certify all 15 types of cupcakes we sell on a daily basis? Absolutely not.
Or all 8 sandwich breads.
We're a dedicated gluten free facility. We will never have an issue of cross contamination with gluten, gluten, it's never going to exist or happen and we have literally Not had an issue with customers caring about that. Yeah, you know what I mean?
Or getting sick?
Well, they never could get so we only purchase certified gluten free raw ingredients like it. We have strict protocol, we have signage it on our doors that asks you to not bring in gluten containing items into our stores.
We ask customers to leave Sure.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Because of customers are sitting there at one of our kids tables, and they Oh, and they are their kids might not be gluten free, but they open a package of goldfish. It's going to make my next customer sick. So...
And it could make somebody like we're like, it would just make me sick for a couple of weeks. But it might it could send somebody to the ER like people can have huge reactions to it.
So we just ask people to be respectful and they absolutely are. I mean, they look we have people especially in some of our center, our locations that have like sort of a real walkability factor. If they're coming in with a sandwich as they're walking and shopping. We'll just politely ask them to leave it outside because we're gluten free facility and we take it very seriously our cars our staff cannot eat outside lunch.
So I just want to say One thing that I love the fact that your reputation precedes you and you are above these, these different labels and stamps and things like that, but these labels and stamps had to come about because people were skirting the system and they were lying. And that's what the supplement industry and that's what the food industry will do. So another industry was built upon it so that they could at least monitor it and you guys are like, No, we got it figured out.
Every so often they share facility right? Most people don't build out their own production facility. So some gluten free cracker on the market is being made and another packed cracker distribution facility. So they have to test for parts per million because they're using the same machinery because that machinery is hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars. So they go through a rapid cleaning process, whatever they do, and then they test parts per million to make sure it's under 10 to certified gluten free because it's on shared equipment. That's that's not something we're dealing Right because we're our own facility.
I would also say that I'm not sure that I think that people are skirting the system or lying. I think that like if I'm let's say we don't have this great business and I'm wanting to buy gluten free stuff because my kids are super sick I probably wouldn't have done it for me but I would actually do it for my children right which is a lot of what we see at our stores is that's for the their kids often. I would I would need something that said it was certified because Am I going to trust blow Joe from you know, whatever town in some state that I can't get to, you know, we've earned this reputation because we grew organically pardon the pun, from area to area to area within the DFW area. So we're still in a small area even as we ship nationwide.
But I also think there's a lot of trust within that dedicated gluten free facility I believe somwhere that's dedicated gluten free.
Definitely.
I will not eat a cupcake from somewhere that just sells a gluten free cupcake. Nope.
Because it's probably next to the gluten cupcake.
I've been burned on it so many times.
You should see what our facility looks like. Like we've built out a dedicated room in our facility now to do the mixing because flour goes everywhere. And after one recipe, there is a...There's just a shrowd of flour all over everything within within Oh 20-30 feet
Her point to that is that if it's a traditional bakery they're getting that flour everywhere you can't you can't all of ours are gluten free so we do it for cleanliness and right various other things. What did you get out of the machinery? You'll find gluten everywhere.
Everywhere. It just it just goes up in the air. You can't help it. Like, people sometimes get upset that we have sprinkles, right? But some kids they can eat it so it's no trouble so if they can't eat gluten, soy, dairy, corn, eggs, peanuts, tree nuts, but they can eat our cookie and our cake. And they want to feel like a kid by having sprinkles on it because you know, Sally gets sprinkles on her cake from whatever bakery. By golly, we're gonna have sprinkles. It's not going to cross contaminate. Just don't we won't get sprinkles on your stuff like it's okay. But gluten and it flies. It flies. Yeah.
So ya'll have the first store and it's now August 2009. We've gone...
2010.
2010 and then suddenly, when did you start to realize hey, we've got something successful. And we might even grow to a point where we have more than one location.
We knew it from the get go.
Right. So I think it's more of could we keep up?
Oh Okay,
So we knew that the demand was there immediately.
Sure.
So we doubled up our location, we built up a triple size freezer than what we initially had.
This is at the White Rock location?
And then as soon as we doubled up White Rock, we then were like, okay, a lot of our customers are coming from the north.
Hour and a half away.
Why are people driving from so far north from McKinney, Frisco? You know, now it's little Elm and prosper, but then it was like Alan,Richardson, McKinney, Frisco. So we started looking up north, and we opened our Frisco store in September of 2013. So it was our second location. Now we'd already doubled our initial location, but it was our second location. And then we opened. We opened our third location in November of 2013. But that was unusual. He would traditionally never open a store that quickly Back to back
But now we've done that two more times.
Not two months apart.
Yeah, we did we opened medallion in in March and we opened Fort Worth in in June.
So are you guys? Are you are you all self financing this whole time?
We are that we're all self funded.
So that is that's bold.
Impressive and awesome.
We are crazy. I like to say we are just crazy.
That's part of what that's part of what our I wouldn't say delay, but it's not like we have immediately bombarded the whole market, but we see companies do this all the time. And it happens constantly, especially in this healthy eating space. There's multiple name brands that you can look at across DFW that have done this they have popped up 25 stores and they close 22 of them close in three years so it's happened time and again in this healthy eating space. I mean happens at restaurants especially but in retail
When you expand it just out of curiosity obviously going from whiterock up to the Plano Frisco McKinney area probably made sense because you could tell what People were driving from like you said.
Plus we were trying to spread it out. We didn't want to monopolize ourselves
within a doable distance. Like we didn't go to Austin because it would have been too hard to control.
I understand,
You know, but we felt like we could control from and whiterockrock to Frisco and we could.
And we didn't feel like the Frisco market would cannibalize our White Rock store either. So that was our initial goal in our growth kind of market and we looked at some of these other healthy eating space brands that have popped up all over and we looked at where they were and we looked at where our customers are coming from, do we pay and have studies completed? No, we didn't. But we looked at our our customer base and where we would want to shop because we are our own customer.
That's interesting, because there's there's a friend of mine from my hometown and he started taco casa. And the way he decided on where he allows people to have a franchise and open up the places he will look for a taco bell and or a McDonald's and then see what the traffic is.
They've already done their due diligence.
So I'm thinking your store in fort worth if I remember right is on Hulen.
Yes.
Is that correct?
It's underneath Central Market.
Yeah. So not far from Central market, but it would make sense off of hulen to be in a place, so is that kind of how you piece that together because your Frisco location makes sense.
We grew up in the business, we've watched, I've gone with my dad to look at site selection with the National franchise group. So we and she grew up running the stores. So we kind of knew the brains behind that. But also, we're a destination location, whereas most restaurants are not most restaurants. It's a cluster location, but we're more of a destination. We're very unique so that that's why we could open up our first location was probably in an ABCD spectrum. It was probably a D location or a C location.
I think it was it was technically classified as a C location.
But it didn't matter
Like never like today, we would never put a location in aC location, but it was our original and our Flagship.
There are things that we look forward to had parking, which is a huge thing to us, like
Parking is huge for us are, you know, soccer moms are a huge part of our clients. Oh, I am my own clientele. My kids are both gluten free.
So I just want to comment on this because you said something really cool. We could have paid the money to have market analysis, but we knew who our clients were,
We know our customers. We are our customers. So that's we have we have baked for ourselves the entire time, which I also think is why the quality is different than most gluten free places. We'd literally eat our own food. And if I don't like it if I don't like it, we don't make it.
Love that.
Because I've got she calls me a super taster. Like, it's gotta have enough sugar but not to much.
It's actually really annoying. But it's great and you know, both sides.
Yeah, I just asked if it doesn't taste good. Why are you going to eat it like it's baked food is comfort food. It makes you feel good. Like the first gluten free bread I had after we got diagnosed was a I'm just Can I say that? No, don't say the brand. It was a white hamburger bun. See look I filtered filtered. That has never happened. Put it on the calendar. Never happened. It was a hamburger bun that was shelf stable for a year and it was on the counter. And it was just like almost like eating styrofoam.
How delicious Do you think that was?
Not very.
You know, and I was like, so we didn't eat bread like I literally none of us ate bread till we really started baking because we just let it go. Because it wasn't worth the calories like to me like carbs are a happy calorie and if it doesn't taste good, then why are you going to eat it?
But it's true, like we will dine out and my kids will say I'll ask them all ,buddies. Do you guys want a hamburger bun today? And my oldest boy, he'll say, well, who makes it? Who what brand is it? And he's like, discerning He's like, well if it's that bad I want that one. He doesn't want to he doesn't like it. It's not his it's not
it's just not worth the calories.
Well, that's not how a 9 year old thinks.
That's not how he says it but that's what he's thinking it's just not worth it.
He's like, I don't like it. I'd rather have more french fries.
So he's already made but he's making those choices without knowing that he's making those choices.
By right we so back to your did we pay for market analysis but we're also not necessarily answering to anyone either. We are we are our board of directors we are bank we are loving we have the ability to make those decisions where you know the larger companies they might have to answer to their investors or whoever else and
Well they would have to.
Right this is why they want to put something somewhere and this shows that.
So when I when I read about different successful companies one that comes always pops into my head is Southwest Airlines. And the CEO you know the name of the CEO I always forget.
Gary Kelly.
Just keep her around. She knows everything.
It's a because we have to deal with this real like you cannot please everybody. And it's the whole story where a woman was complaining and would send an emails about how she didn't like this, this and this, which are all standards for Southwest like you're gonna wait. You're going to get in Group A, B or C. And he wrote back. Thank you for being our customer. We hope you enjoy the next airline you fly. Basically we're not catering. This is who we are. You don't have to cater The people that want to come to unrefined bakery, they know what they're going to get. They don't need a stamp on it. And you built this with your model with your convictions with your money and so you don't answer to anybody. And you can do this unapologetically. If somebody says that the super taster did a bad job tasting doesn't matter, she's the super taster.
There you go. But, but on the flip side of that we do very much listen to our customers. And that I think has been probably our most pivotal point of our success, right, is that we listen to what our customers want. Do we listen to their complaints? I answered them all personally,
She doesn't let me come close to those.
Every single one of them. We have very, very few complaints are our customers love us people cry in our store. It's actually part of our training for Front of House staff is how to deal with the crying mom, because it happens.
Really?
All the time. weekly in every store.
Give me an example of how that would go down.
Okay, I wanna give one.
Sure you give one and i'll give one.
A lady comes in years ago her husband's with her she's got, it's from when we were in White Rock,
but you can repeat this like every week in the store.
Every week. Yeah.
Kids in tow and they're all like got Cheshire Cat grins and she walks in and she goes, What's gluten free? Happens all the time. We said everything. And her husband and kids knew that she didn't know it was like their gift surprise to her. And they brought her because she I'm gonna cry. And she just started crying. She did. And normally it's the parent crying for the kid. But this was the mom that was celiac. And the family had done this for her and brought her to us. And it's just, it's why we do what we do. Like it's why it's why we've grown. It's why we've put the money back into the business to get into the market as best we could to make sure that we'd be successful. Because if we didn't grow like we did, somebody else would have come in and grown
People have come in and some people have already left.
But we needed to saturate the market as best we could with our own limited funds. Because we we think we're the best in the country. What we do, we're we're organic, we pay attention to the ingredients we do as little sugars we can't we do as the least harm that we can with the best ingredients that we can to bring you the best product that we can. And I think that we succeed. I mean, I think it's good food.
As a customer, I could say, I trust everything that you're saying delicious.
And we really care,
We won't ever make sacrifices in terms of the quality of our ingredients. If anything we have we not acknowledging we have simply improved the quality of our ingredients. We never started being as organic as we are. We're basically 98% organic. There you know
We started off being about 50 or 60%. Like when they were kids, I tried to buy healthy food as best I could within the realm of what I knew back then. We started off being gluten free and then immediately went soy free, and then quickly started taking the corn out because people say can you take the corn out? And we're like, well, even and we didn't even use organic corn at first. And then we're like, well, we can use an organic corn. But even then it's just a starch and doesn't really add value. So what's causing people trouble?
But it just snowballs. I mean, the more you The more we know the better we do. Like that's how we have grown
And we're better at making recipes now like everything's better.
How hard is it to when somebody says can you do something without soy I can do something without corn? How hard is it to redo these recipes, the familial recipes.
Oh it's hard.
it was very hard but it's it's complete. So we're not there's nothing more to change at this point. Today we we've kind of focused more on growing our Kido line that's been our largest so these days not only are we a gluten free bakery, and and, you know, an allergen bakery in general that's sort of how we're known but we're also known for just catering to special diets. Whether that's and I don't mean diet isn't Oh, you're on a diet. I mean, diet is in this is how you fuel your body. So whether keto,vegan,paleo, those are all diets, we cater to tremendously vegan because by eliminating dairy and eggs, such common food allergies, we have vegan products, and then keto because we already it's difficult keto baking is intrinsically Difficult as is paleo baking paleo baking is easier than keto baking.
We need to back up paleo baking is no grains, no sugar, no dairy, no legumes. Keto takes it further they don't want even this sugar from say the bananas that we would use in a paleo muffin to sweeten so they want an alcohol sugar to replace the sweetener. So the body doesn't take it as a sugar and they want
and no starch
And no starch so you can't use the tapioca or era root.
20 total carbs per day.
So you're baking predominantly with eggs and seeds, nuts and seeds and a lot of people do keto in a very 1990 Atkins way where they're supplementing with cream cheese and other things that they're baking with but our keto was all organic and dairy free, which is highly unusual
Super hard because when I tried keto it was basically do cheesy eggs in the morning cheesy eggs for lunch and cheesy eggs for dinner.
Butter bombs, you know, little butters cream cheese and
don't eat too much avocado because you know it has too many carbs.
You have to Be really careful.
It's awesome because what I Hearing though is you're meeting your customer where they're at but doing it with your standards.
That's exactly right.
We we know that...
We won't change our stores.
Yeah, our people come here. And I hear that you're wanting this. We're going to try to meet you. But we're going to do it this way in the most ethical way possible. I think it's fantastic.
Somebody said to me, Well, I had a keynote cupcakes the other day, and it was better than yours. I was like, that's awesome.
That's great.
And, and they emailed me the ingredients to it, because they thought we should make it and I was like, well, none of we don't use these ingredients. We you can't even pronounce these ingredients like this is not this is this does not meet, unrefined's way of doing anything. It's not organic pastured eggs, it's I mean, we're just not going to sacrifice our kind of core competencies and core beliefs to make a product that she thought was more palatable. She's Welcome to buy their cupcakes
And just to clarify, the reason we do it that way is because we really think that the the junk in the food The reason it's called junk, you know, the chemicals and preservatives, the additives, the colorings, all that stuff, we believe to our core That that is part and parcel of why people are getting so sick. It's not just the gluten and it's not just the dairy. It's not just the sugar. It's the combination of all of that junk.
I couldn't agree more.
Well, I mean, so everybody sits in so I get this all the time where patients will will tell me Oh, yeah, I don't know, I feel a little sick when I have gluten, but I know that's just a thing that doesn't really exist. And you start looking at Okay, it's not just the gluten. It's the amylase trypsin inhibitor that's there that the that's the GMO wheat that allows it to be pesticide free. Now we know that creates intestinal inflammation. That's a very simple thing. Now we know I had a patient today where she was talking about being bloated and she had her pocketbook out and a protein bar was sitting right there. And I was like, do you mind if I look at this and I pulled sugar alcohols Winner Winner it said no, it said non dairy, non gluten but it was making her bloated like crazy sugar alcohol.
That's awesome for your gut.
Yeah. Exactly and then yeah, and so it's it's funny, you're exactly right once it gets put in a package can sit for a year on a shelf. There's all different kinds of things going on with this.
So y'all, y'all are y'all just opened your seventh location?
Seventh retail locations.
Seventh retail location. And ya'll also do special packaging and shipping for people who are on the contiguous 48.
Yeah, yeah, we shipped to all 48 lower states. You know, the 48 contiguous. Yep. And then we also have a pretty large wholesale business
Hold on and one special customer in Alaska. I'll just say one special shout out to my son
My brother lives in Alaska.
We used to ship him cookies in Iraq so
Yeah we did
Alaska is nothing compared to Iraq.
Wow, that's fantastic. Y'all do cold pack shipping i guess?
So we ship with dry ice across the US, but it's not required for everything. So some of our products especially locally within like a UPS ground delivery system within a day, which is Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, I mean a pretty good chunk of the regional US that we're in is next day so most of our products can ship next day no problem I mean we asked for you to freeze them to prolong shelf life and but they're not going to go bad in a day so a lot of people opt against the dry ice shipping but then things like our cakes and our cookies we require dry ice shipping for sure. So a lot of people add that plus their breads and other things to their cart and checkout.
Or pies. Yeah, we ship our pies
Pies are fantastic By the way
Can you giveme since I've met Eric his seasoned with your stores, but I've not been into one of yours which I'm going to do probably tomorrow. Can you tell me that that you'd like a brief list of the types of products that you carry or that you make?
Yep. So when you walk into our stores, we kind of act as though the freezer section of the grocery store you shop at whether it's central market or whole foods or Kroger or anywhere else. You look in the freezer section of the gluten free staples you have your sandwich breads your dinner breads, your hamburger and hot dog buns all your various muffins and your
pizza crust
pizza crust is in our top three most popular products
Pies.
I mean
Y'all have dough's too.
we do.
Pie dough and cookie dough.
Pie dough and cookie dough cookie dough so we I like to say we make everything gluten free with exception of pasta and crackers. So pasta and crackers are not items we make nor will we make people like oh you should make that I'm like why never made it before I'm I don't have the equipment for it.
We stick with our with it our expertise
So pasta and crackers are never going to be something in our wheelhouse it just doesn't work with our model but anything baked whether it's quick breads or you know and then obviously all of our cupcakes and cookies and custom cakes, custom cakes are huge for us
Custom cakes?
Anything like 50% of our sales.
No kidding
Shut the front door.
That is that is so labor intensive.
Well it is but our but where else are they going to get a gluten free dairy free soy free corn free peanut free tree nut free.
Where else are they going to get a cake that tast tjhat good and that every recipes a custom recipe for that item like not like we use a mix. Like every recipe is different.
Do you go so far seems like wedding cakes and stuff like that?
We do. Absolutely.
Wow you guys do not hold back.
That is all her area
I make it taste good and she helps people make it pretty.
So we have a cool thing that are you know unrefined loyalist follow for us. We have our cupcake of the week or our cow as we affectionately call it the launches every Friday. I believe this is the
Cult following
seventh year we've done cow. So we've been doing every week for seven years, a new cupcake of the week, launches every Friday morning at 9am on social media, and then it hits all of our stores that day, whatever time they open, and they last until it sells out and it's always a custom flavor. And we bring back our favorites like what's today, Thursday. Tomorrow, Oh no! First time ever.
Oh wait. Is this like an early leak late for the cow.
Tomorrow's our cookie monster will go nuts for so it's like a chocolate chip cake and it's filled with a chocolate chip cookie cream and it has a whipped vanilla buttercream to with chocolate chip cookie crumbles. And its people just love it.
You are going there tomorrow.
Oh yeah.
The best one is the overload the chocolate overload which is my favorite.
Chocolate over it. So we have like probably five most requested cows, the overloads one of them, it's a chocolate cake. It has our fudge brownie bakes into the center. And so it kind of is gooey and then crispy on the top. And then it's topped with chocolate buttercream and dark chocolate ganache. We do that in, in what we call. And we have fun naming them late like early on. We contests for people to come up with new ideas and like our what our signature cupcake is called a loaded monkey. And that way one of our It was one of our early cows, maybe our second or third and people loved it. And I was like oh well we could just this could be our signature cake so it is it's our
So we have a cake with a peanut in it.
That's our signature cake. But but so our production facility is peanut free. It's a peanut free facility. But our retail stores have peanuts and they but they don't have peanut for anything that's packaged so anything that's packaged never come in contact.
And can I just say the wonderful yin and yang that happens with two people that are equal owners, right? And first of all her friends are like, it's so nice that you let your mom work with you. My friends are like, it's so nice you let Taylor help you out with this. Like they are completely convinced that the other one is just, it's just along for the ride, right? But Tyler comes to me years ago and says, I think we need to do a new cupcake every week. Kind of spice it up. And I said, No. We have vanilla. We have lemon, we have carrot and we have vanilla with strawberry that is in chocolate. Like who needs more than that
Who needs more than a five cupcakes of variety?
They were great, right? We have more than that now.
Oh, she is single handedly with this cupcake of the week. I could never do it. Like my brain doesn't think that way. I'm the one that gets in and spends 52 hours nuancing a recipe to make it perfect. Which she would never she'd be like oh tasted fine three weeks ago like
Visionary, implementer.
We're just different. We're just different. She's super creative and the cupcake of the week it's just been
You watch the YouTube video of that of that little chimpanzee eating the fermented fruit falling off the tree and you're like loaded monkey. That's our new cupcake right there.
We did a contest for that name.
That's awesome
That's awesome. Anyway, that's thank God whoever feels the most strong wins.
Before we get into that really quick, I just want to talk science again really quick. So celiac, you can diagnose it through blood, and also biopsy and treatment, I have a new treatment. What I'm going to recommend is if you get diagnosed with celiac disease, you will move into an unrefined bakery for a minimum of three months and just lay out just...
Perfect just like realize that you're not gonna lose your mind.
You guys should start doing inpatient rehab for celiac.
You can tell when somebody comes in new you can it's like that orphan annie deer in the headlight look, and they literally we can spend like 45 minutes with a new person. And we'll walk depending on what they're allergic to. We'll walk them through we recommend we sell gluten free for dummies or living gluten free for dummies just because people they just they're so overwhelmed by it and we remember what that felt like.
And food is so intrinsic to our culture like when you're told that you or your child specifically can no longer have the sugar cookies for Christmas there used to decorating with their grandmother or the birthday cake or cupcakes they can share with their friends or just a peanut butter and jelly sandwich that they The only thing they'll eat in their lunch. You know, I mean, we're talking celiac here and not necessarily other food allergies, but it's so overwhelming for people, just people, most people don't approach it. I felt like with the same level of Okay, well, now we're going to be gluten free that we approached it with. And we realized that I think we approached going gluten free with a gusto that most people don't.
We always talked about the fact that being lonely is just as dangerous as smoking. Do you find that people when they walk into stores suddenly find a sense of community?
Oh, absolutely. And we hear their story, people love to talk about their history and what brought them to us and what brought them to gluten free and how being gluten free has changed their life. And it's no joke and it is a community like people. Everyone talks to each other. They'll come in, they'll be six people in at the cupcake and they'll be like, Oh my God, have you tried the Have you tried the retro, it's my favorite. I buy 12 at a time or....
They immediatley have something they can connect with. That is so cool.
It's so cool. And people love it and everyone talks to each other in our stores, which is like customer wise. I mean, it's super cool. We love it.
That's awesome. So your life does not end if your food allergy or diagnosis and your healthy life begins
totally, you're gonna feel so much better
Even if it's any of the major food groups that's in all the processed food, gluten, soy, dairy, corn that's in everything. Like if you can't eat any of those items, you just suddenly it's a different world, and
Especially if you've eaten a sad diet, standard American diet. It's very sad, right? And you're told you need to go like gluten, dairy, soy, or even were dairy free. It's so overwhelming. Sure, because people don't understand that if you're used to being a drive thru goer. It's going to be really hard for you to adjust to cutting out one of those items.
That's why I think that we should start the unrefined bakery inpatient rehab, because if you check yourself in, these are a few of the things that you're going to be exposed to.
A hundred percent.
Would you like to talk about this?
Well, it's one of our first 19 items. People literally take it and they come back and they say, what you put in that
It's called the mix.
It's called the mix it they apparently can't duplicate the spices in it, because they try they're like I try and I tried, I tried and I tried and I can't get it. And I literally I sat down to watch football game and next thing I knew it was gone. Like What Did you put in a crack? We've, for 10 years that's been the description of this food. It's our only
People love it.
Is it rude to eat live on the show?
You go!
I want to try it man.
It's our only item that has conventional grains in it. But again, it was one of our first 19 items and people would kill us if we got rid of it.
Oh i've had it.
Oh you have?
Oh yea its great!
So it's like it all the Eatzi's carry it. It's one of Phil Romanos favorite products in Dallas.
Oh Eatzi's carries it?
Oh yea They've carried it for 10 years, 9 years.
Dan McDowell talked about that on the ticket.
They were super early.
So I would normally mute my mic here but I
No you shouldn't it's crunchy and awesome. It's a good bar snack.
So kids of all ages. How you thinkng Dr. Ken oh he's shoveling more.
It's so good. So people love the mix that's you know, it's unique it's it's definitely doesn't necessarily fit our profile in general for what we do. It's just, it's just a fun snack.
So we have a box here of some of the treats. I haven't seen them yet but I will say that one of the coolest things beyond even the food is your logo and your colors. I think the boxes are cool, so when you gift things which my wife and i've done it looks awesome. It's not just some throw away box it looks cool.
Anybody has a pink or white box right?
We put money into branding right from the get go like that's one of the things we did
Oh in here.
That looks so good.
We have some incredible delectibles.
Well, as you do this exists, all that we know it's gluten free, is it?
It's all gluten, soy, dairy and corn free.
This is blowing my mind no way,
so I'm gonna hold this one up.
Sure. So that's that's our loaded monkey.
That's a loaded monkey.
The loaded monkey.
Heat that thing up for like 10 seconds in a microwave. Oh my lord it is unbelievable
So it's a banana chocolate chip cake and it has chocolate peanut butter fudge filling in a peanut butter on butter cream. So this is probably one of our cupcakes I'm the most proud of and I think and probably as well. So this this happens to be one of our cows it was last week's chocolate Raz so it's a chocolate raspberry cake. But what I'm so proud about that cake. So that chocolate cake I think is the best cake we have. And it is free of every food allergy I mean obviously you could technically be allergic to anything but it's free of gluten dairy, soy, corn tree nuts, peanuts and eggs.
It and it's literally like 60% less sugar. People aree like well what what is it what's in it like unicorn tears and pixie dust?
All of our cake is about 50% less sugar I literally just chop the sugar and you can see how small the icing is true and it's not because we're cheap. It's because we're by it's by design, right? We think you just need enough. But you know, it's it's fat and it's sugar. You just need enough now the icing is awesome, but like most cupcake places the icing is like this tall.
It's organic fat and it's organic sugar.
Yes, that's vanilla.
Yeah, this is a vanilla cupcake.
like we really try.
I like this new role that Eric's doing this is a vanilla cupcake.
so that's.
Are you Vanna?
Sort of, just Van.
that's our carrot with butter cream. So our standard icing is called un butter cream, which is just our butter cream, but it's dairy free. Un butter cream.
So just out of curiosity is that ghee or no?
No, it's it's a blend of oils. That the secret is how we make it.
Is it? Is it a spoiler alert if I asked what kind of flower you're using in that one?
No, they're all different though. Oh man Anne go back to when you put the rest of it together.
Carrot is White rice, tapioca and sorghum.
Oh, good job Taylor.
Oh, this is no joke. You guys were like really experimenting back in the day because if you're combining all it's usually Oh, that one's almond flour. Oh, that one is...
They're all at least three if not 5,6,7 flours.
This is what makes it so successful.
That's what maks it work and then this one the white one has I totally threw away the book and started over on that one because it's super good. It was it was too dark Taylor's like people say it's too dark. I need a white cake. And I'm like one organic bakery with brown sugars and brown flowers and you want a white cake?
Yeah, so when a whole wheat I mean,
but let me say eat white rice, sweet rice eret, potato starch and sorghum. Well, I think and tapioca
You're like a chemist!
Yeah, that's what took like 52 hours
Is this just called chocolate?
That's just our classic chocolate.
Classic chocolate.
That was that same cake.
The last one in here.
So that's our fudge brownie when we put it in the big cup, so doesn't fall over.
Gotcha.
So that's our fudge brownie. Have you had our brownies? Eric?
I have not had the fudge brownie.
Does your wife like chocolate?
She she's actually kind of on the fence on chocolate.
Okay, well then so my talk it's really not my jam but it is like fun G and rich and has a nice it's awesome
one lady years ago
It has five ingredients the cake the brownie itself and
In 10 years one person has said Oh, I didn't care for it and I said you didn't care for it and she goes, I said, Can you tell me why? And she goes, Well, it's really gooey on the inside and it's crispy chewy on the outside. I said, Yeah, that's right. She goes no, I don't like it. I'm like, well, but that was what we intended.
So you wanted a cake like brownie get a cupcake.
the yin and the yang of chocolate. So those are just some treats.
Thank you all so much for bringing all the stuff y'all are the very first ones on the gut check project Episode 30 to show food to anybody
and did we know that there was video in this? No we did not. We thought this was radio.
Ya'll are not the first ones that we surprised we even do a podcast.
I was like is it radio? It's podcast, right? So then I googled it and found that I'm like, it's a podcast, which my mother would be very happy about. Because now she gets to listen to it. Cuz she said, How can I listen? I'm like, let's hope it's a podcast. I'm like, it is so you can listen to it.
Like, like all things. This podcast sort of started out as just, we were we were with spoony radio and then then Eric, and I decided that this is really a way for us to learn some stuff. And man, I love your story. This is so cool. This how I built this. This is a fantastic story.
Shout out. If it were me, we would have gone under years ago with the best product ever. Luckily, it's not just me. And she has kept us alive, kept us afloat, done the book.
Thank God you wrote your daughter help you out in your business venture.
Thank God, I let her sit in the corner critter in the corner.
I'm so proud. So proud. Yeah.
So I don't I don't want to lose anybody. I know. We're getting the show notes. We'll have all of the links that you sent over, etc. But where can people Find unrefined bakery online and then find your location
So you can go to our website unrefinedbakery.com, and then locations we have across Dallas Fort Worth. So we have one in Fort Worth one in Frisco one in Rockwall, and then we have four in Dallas proper. So we have our brand new uptown location that opened a little less than a month ago.
Oh, that's not going to do well at all.
Yeah, terrible.
It's right off the park. It's right in Pearl and McKinney, pretty awesome location. We have our medallion center location, our Preston center location, and our lower Greenville Avenue location.
And as we referenced earlier, everyone can order online of course for shipping no matter where they are correct? Of course.
All right.
Yeah, we gave a little discount code to your followers.
Yes. Oh, you'll see it in the in the show notes. And if you happen to be looking at gut check project. com gut check project. com If you're only listening on the podcast, I or Apple player, gut check project. com Go to the show notes where we've had unrefined bakery, it's episode number 30. And then you'll see the link with The discount code specifically from from us we'll probably also make the code available at the GI clinic.
Yeah, that's awesome.
We could even do we can even do we, we do a lot of research and so but our background we always try and find things we should do the whole unrefined challenge where it's basically if you're making an appointment with me, it may take a little while Anyways, I'm going to challenge you that I need you to eat 12 cupcakes, log, your bloating score come in with the empty box and then tell me how you feel like you probably have celiac.
Yeah, that'll be awesome.
And don't forget that it's not just cupcakes.
Oh right. breads, doughs...
Yeah, we make the staples that you that you need in your life. The cupcakes are fun, but you need to have cakes for the first year like literally we were a bread and food bar bakery. Nice.
So knowing that, like whatever 10 billion chicken wings we get people the Super Bowls coming up here we got the what is the unrefined pick for the Super Bowl here coming up and everybody needs to get a bag of the mix. For the Super Bowl.
You should probably get more than one box
and a tray of brownies and pizza. Oh in Uptown store selling pizza.
I'm gonna give you a hint take the Chiefs cuz mahommes is from Texas.
Oh yeah, yeah, the Chiefs Oh yeah. And it's been what 50 years
So if you're only watching us for the first time because you're fans of unrefined bakery check out gut check project like and share like and share this is what we do all the time we talk about health topics we talk about food topics
and please connect with us when you go and do the cupcake of the week the COW and you have ideas and we we want to start intermingling our our groups together super proud of what you guys have super proud that you offer food for my patients because I have a huge celiac group, huge food sensitivity group. And now I'm going to just start funneling it I'm thrilled that we have this show for one reason one reason only that I can get one of my patients to walk in your store and start crying.
Yeah.
Tears of joy,
That would be awesome. Well Taylor Anne thank y'all so much for hanging out with awesome show
Can we do this a couple more hours.
Oh, come back more bring some more Bread. We'll do anything will bake a pizza whatever it takes
perfect.
Well that'll do it for Episode 30 Dr. Brown anything else?
No, this is awesome. Thank you so much once again a mother daughter team team, not
Team equal partners.
Equal partners rockin I wish you both the most success you come from a place of love. You come from a place of caring and it shows everybody can taste it in your foods. Congratulations and Wow, great job.
See y'all next time!
Bye
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Remember, I am a real doctor Eric is a real crna. We do do real medicine. But this show is not intended to diagnose or treat. Please, if you have any issues like rectal bleeding, go to our website, kbmdhealth.com. Download the E book, learn about it, but make sure that you talk to your doctor about it.
Ken Brown
All right, here we are with the gut check project, Episode 29 a super special episode because we have a guest co host, Eric Rieger was unavailable. And so we had a guest co host today it is Dr. Doug Won, who's here. Welcome to the studio, my friend.
Dr. Won
Thank you so much for having me here. Truly an honor.
Ken Brown
Well, I think that this is gonna be a really really cool show. You're doing A lot of functional things you're really big into treating the whole person. Your background, I think is really cool. I am gonna warn you though. I hope you're a pretty smart guy because Eric's a smart guy. You got some big shoes to fill in. So why don't we at least find out like if you're, you know, like where you actually came from and everything. Tell us a little bit about yourself?
Dr. Won
Sure. I'm from South Korea, immigrated to Irving, Texas when I was 11 years old and went to elementary, middle school and high school in Irving MacArthur High School, go Cardinals. And then after that, I went to Northwestern University. I majored in biology and biomedical engineering, and then went to medical school at utmb in Galveston, and once I was done with the medical school, pursued orthopedic surgery at Washington University in St. Louis, and did spine surgery fellowship in Michigan, and then came right back to Irving, Texas, to treat my friends and family members and my local community and Irving, the city that I love, I went back to it and been there ever since.
Ken Brown
Yeah, you're way smarter than Eric. Yeah. Of course right now he's probably arguing I didn't hear anything about Texas Tech. So you know, so in his mind, you didn't go to Texas Tech. You're not nearly as smart. But I guess you did say a few other things Northwestern, double major biology, biomedical engineering and everything. So, yeah, I think that I think the show is going to be really great. What I want to do with this show today, you have you and I have very similar passions. We're really big into the functional medicine side of things. I want to cover some anti aging stuff. I want to talk about how supplements and nutrients can actually augment a lot of these different things that talk about your past. Now. You are one of the most accomplished orthopedic spine surgeons and I can I have to pick your brain before we even jump in. I was actually talking to a very difficult patient of mine and I wanted to throw out a disease and just see if you've ever dealt with any of this. I believe That we have somebody who is smoldering into ankylosing spondylitis. Now this actually happened to one of our co workers, but now I'm treating somebody who's acting a lot like she did. She spent about two years just sort of, you knew something wasn't right. And then pow it just kind of all popped up. Have you had some experience with autoimmune diseases and stuff like that specifically as ankylosing spondylitis?
Dr. Won
Yeah, absolutely. In our spine clinic, we used to see a lot of patients with ankylosing spondylitis. And then also patients who didn't quite have the the conditions, but they were HLA 27 positive, and they were brewing the different types of symptoms and conditions. And then we also deal with because I also deal with lifestyle medicine. We've actually seen a lot of different kinds of patients with autoimmune disease. And what we usually tell patients is that your genetics and genes may load the gun, but you actually pulled the trigger through your nutrition and lifestyle.
Ken Brown
i like how you say that. Yeah, totally. So one of the things I just want to get this out of the way that you You're a very accomplished orthopedic surgeon. You're currently involved a little bit of a legal situation that you're appealing. What I think is amazing what you have done is because you have to put your surgical practice on hold for a little bit. Yes, you have shifted, and have still taken on the role of being a doctor, helping people and being an educator, you have not slowed down at all, you are the embodiment of resilience of moving through. I'm super, I think that's really, really neat. And why did you decide to kind of shift gears, I mean, you were going from scalpel. And I get that you have to take a little break from that. But a lot of people like you would just say, I'll use this as a break to go tour the world and say hi to things and you went I'm gonna use this as my opportunity to help more people.
Dr. Won
Thank you. You know, helping people and making a big impact was my passion. That is a reason why I went into medicine and went into medicine because you know, my father suffered from back and he had four back surgeries, and his life was ruined for about 30 years with severe pain and in life You come up with so many different challenges. Either you can crumble or or decide to just sit back, and then the life continue to punch you, or you can stand back, you know, stand up again, and continue to move on forward. And what got me going was as long as I can make an impact and help all the patients, and my passion was biohacking, which I've been doing, you know, all my life. And what I realized was that in medical school, we really didn't learn how to cure the disease. We learned to manage the disease. And through this experience, I really learned how to better manage and then in many incidences, and cure the patients, and wanted to continue to make an impact and help patients. That's what gets me going and that's what's getting me up every single morning. And no matter what anybody says, as long as I feel good about you know what I'm doing and continue to practice medicine in different way. Through health coaching, and, you know, even approaching and these days, I also teach a lot of doctors in Africa. How to treat chronic disease.
Dr. Won
You teach doctors in Africa?
Dr. Won
Yes.
Ken Brown
Okay. I got a segway out of that for a second. What? Tell me about that?
Dr. Won
Yeah, so I came in contact with a physician who was really into preventive medicine. He's a personal doctor to the president of Cameroon. In Africa right now, they're facing so many different chronic disease. In the past, before the Africa became developed, there was no such thing as heart disease, cancer, diabetes, or obesity. But as the countries are becoming wealthier, and countries are becoming more developed, they're now importing American disease such as heart disease, diabetes, cancer, Alzheimer's, and they obviously can't afford to treat the patients with American medicine. So they're looking for ways to treat the patients naturally, and also the citizens most of the people in Africa are still hesitant about Modern medicine. So we got in contact through a mutual friend. And we decided to teach the the physicians there, how to reverse the disease naturally. And then also importantly, to prevent them.
Ken Brown
Wow and so are you doing some sort of zoom with them? Do you have a lecture series? How are you doing this?
Dr. Won
Yeah. So every Saturday morning, I connect through them through zoom meeting. Thank goodness for technology. I don't have to physically be in Africa. I would love to visit the continent, sometime soon. When things free up, but utilizing the technology, we provide the lectures, mostly to physicians, but also just about anyone who's interested. And we open it up to the whole community. And at one point, we had people from seven different countries connecting seven different countries in Africa.
Ken Brown
Oh, wow. That is that is fantastic. So even before you had to kind of take this little hiatus from actually cutting on people and doing spine surgery, you've been thinking about this for a long time. You've been working towards the changing, changing the disease progress, you made a living for many years taking care of the end problem of people having wearing their bodies down, then you as the spine surgeon go in, and you take away their pain and you help them. But even then you were thinking, and what can we do to prevent this?
Dr. Won
Yes. Oh, absolutely. So we've been giving free seminars on how to prevent and reverse chronic disease naturally, for about three years. I initially did not necessarily want to give the seminars myself, I'm not a good public speaker. And so I wanted to set up the infrastructure and then invite one of the physicians to do it. And he did it in a couple of times, but it took him away from the family. And it takes a lot of effort to prepare different topics. So I thought this was so important. And as you know, when we're in medical school, maybe we had an hour or two hours of lectures of nutrition, and how to reverse the disease naturally. Well, actually, we didn't learn anything about how to reverse the disease naturally in medical school. We learn how to just manage the disease. And so once I saw the light, I said, I have to share this information with everyone as many people as possible
Ken Brown
Even as a gastroenterologist when I trained as a fellow, it is called the division of gastroenterology and nutrition. And I think we got like, half hour a week on nutrition. I know that it's supposed to a split the title. Gastroenterology and nutrition.
Dr. Won
Yeah. And look at the hospital. You know, once I had a patient after a very big surgery, and he had a mild, MI you know, mild heart attack. And the next morning when I went up to the patients for patient had eggs, bacon cheese, for breakfast and lunch, I said, this is wrong, and then go to any hospitals, whether it's Dallas or anywhere else, go to the cafeteria, the hospitals are serving disease causing food in the cafeteria and to the patients. I said this is wrong, right. That is the true crime. And I said, you know, it was one of our mission to to really empower the people and teach me How to Prevent and reverse the disease themselves.
Ken Brown
We should do a video where you actually come to my hospital to the doctors lounge. They give free food to the doctors and you walk around that doctors lounge. There's bags of m&ms. I've taken pictures of this. There's m&ms there's, this is really funny. There's actually bowls of like gummy bears. And I'll watch and people will just go by just grab a head. Start eating on the way out. I'm like, there's so many things wrong with that. Not just the food, but a lot of hands been in that bowl.
Dr. Won
Yeah, actually, I got in trouble with that one of the hospitals here locally in Dallas I actually took a picture of what they were serving at the doctors lounge and then post it on the social media. Oh, and then I got called into the principal's office. The hospital CEO.
Ken Brown
Oh, before we get called into the principal's office, since I'm not good at this part. This is what Eric does real well. One thing disclaimer both Dr. Won and myself are real doctors yet this is not intended to treat anybody or give any medical advice if you have that unusual rash or joint pain or anything, this is not here to cure or treat you. But this could help cure whatever it is or not, or at least reverse what's going on by lifestyle changes, not through medical advice. And the other thing that we always need to do is really give love to our sponsors. Our sponsors Atrantil my baby, my little polyphenol complex, which we're going to get into a lot of stuff about this because Dr. Won is a whole food plant based doctor. And those vegetables all have polyphenols similar to what we have, in Atrantil. And we do know that that actually can work like the Mediterranean diet, and do all different kinds of things. And of course, the KBMD health CBD, I'm a big fan of cannabadial, we get into the science of it, we're going to learn more and more. I don't know if you've gotten too much into that. But the one thing that we talk about a lot because I start meeting scientists, like we have discussed before when you have when doctors say there's no science and then you're meeting the bench researchers that are out there. There's gonna be a field like you're an orthopedic spine surgeon you're a subspecialty of a subspecialty. I'm a gastroenterologist I'm a subspecialty of a sub specialty. I guess yours is sub sub sub because you did spine after orthopedic. Your your next level, even though you didn't go to Texas Tech, we're gonna forgive you for that.
Dr. Won
Thank you.
Ken Brown
Yeah, that's, this is just for Eric because he gets so upset if we don't discuss that. But even when you're sitting there as a sub sub specialist, we've got all these people with knowledge in other fields, that then you start realizing you could be a sub sub specialist. So I've met researchers that I call Endocannabinoidologists because they understand so much on the molecular basis of the endocannabinoid system, which I think eventually we're going to get to, but I think all of it gets corrected if you eat right and live the right lifestyle. So our little disclaimers go to Atrantil.com or go to KBMdhealth.com and take a look at the CBD. So that's usually a Does that a whole lot smoother? That's not really my...
Dr. Won
I think you did great.
Ken Brown
We have to get that out of there. So, all right, getting back to you, because I this is a rare opportunity to have somebody with both your background, your your skill set. And now this this continual pursuit, this continual change. I'm very similar to you, I've realized at this stage of my life, that moving forward is what keeps me happy. Always trying to see okay, what what can we do? What can we do for the next thing? What can we do for the next level? I try to always talk about a recent news article or something and I want to bring this up. Not to put you on the spot. Dr. Won, How old are you?
Dr. Won
I am 48 years old.
Ken Brown
You don't look it 48 years old. Awesome. An article just came out out of the National Bureau of Economic Research, which takes on the myth that life begins at age 40. This is kind of interesting, according to this very large study, that they looked at over 257 different countries, different socio economic stages and all that. Fascinating that you're saying that Africa is now getting these Western diseases
Dr. Won
Yes.
Ken Brown
So it's it's, it's impervious to everybody. The whole world is having the same crisis that I think we face. We just got there a little quicker than everybody else.
Dr. Won
Oh, absolutely.
Ken Brown
What they looked at is that there is a U shaped curve for happiness. And as it turns out, it bottoms out at age 47.2. And the reason why I bring this up is that there's a lot of people and they were trying to figure out why is it genetics? Is it that the stressors are too much? Is it that disease start setting in right about then you start realizing your own mortality and all these other things. They don't know exactly why, but they were able to account for education, marital status, all these things. And they did show that although it bottoms out by 48 49, people are able to find their way out and they can usually do it through community and through purpose.
Dr. Won
Yes.
Ken Brown
So both you and I are beyond that now. So now we're in the happiness zone. And I think that you've done exactly that you got through a little curveball and you're like, I'm just gonna keep moving. and I'm going to do this through community and purpose. And what it sounds like, is that the first thing you did is say, I'm going to give free lectures. Tell me about that.
Dr. Won
Yeah, so we've been hosting a free seminar, teaching people how to prevent and reverse their chronic disease, and through whole food plant based nutrition. And there's a it's not just in nutrition itself, but it's a whole lifestyle. And that's why we don't like to call it you know, plant based diet is a plant based nutrition and lifestyle. And what I realized was I started going into plant base once I lost a few of my colleagues to cancer, they're physicians, and I myself, always thought, Hey, you know, there's a chance that I might die from cancer and the reason for that is because I've done a tremendous amount of a minimally invasive surgery and use two interpretive X ray machines and, and got significant amount of radiation exposure.
Ken Brown
Just explain real quick, minimally invasive and why you would have to be using an X ray machine
Dr. Won
So a traditional spine surgery, you would make a big incision, right and then open up the spine, take away the, you know, the fat, the fascia and the muscle and then strip all of them off and gain access to the spine. And the whole concept of minimally invasive surgeries, not disrupting the soft tissue, you would make a very small incision, and then utilizing the X ray machine at the time. Now these days, you can use imaging guidance with minimal amount of radiation. But when we were first starting out 15 years ago, it was the typical X ray machine. We were protected with Lead But still, we got a lot of exposure to radiation. So I used to joke around saying I'll probably die of cancer someday. But what I realized was that I don't want to die of cancer Who does? So I started doing just a lot of research how to prevent cancer. And I just, you know, went through about thousand different papers, scientific papers, I realized we all have cancer cells, every single one of us have cancer, so we have cancer. So when we're diagnosed with cancer is a clinically significant cancer that we which we can prevent In many times and reverse, even the study from the MD Anderson state state study showed that number one cause of a cancer was diet. Number two was the tobacco. Number three is obesity, which leads back to the diet, right? And then the genetics makes up the smallest percentage, you know, no more than five to 10%. So we actually have to control
Ken Brown
Use your analogy one more time with a gun. I like that.
Dr. Won
Yeah, it is the gene or genetic loads the gun, and then the diet and lifestyle pulls the trigger. And so in that we now with better understanding of epigenetics, that the the genes are like the light switches, depending on our nutrition and lifestyle, we actually have the ability to turn them on and turn them off. So So through that approach, I discovered whole food plant based nutrition, which has worked wonders for me, instantaneously, within six weeks, I lost about you know, 25 pounds, and after age 40. They said if you do exactly the same activities level eat same thing. You're going to gain about a pound or 2 every single year, if you know then within 10 years, that's additional 20 pounds. And so starting 40...
Ken Brown
I'm sorry to interrupt. I just want to clarify this one thing you chose to go plant based Whole Foods based on the thousands of articles that you researched.
Dr. Won
Yes.
Ken Brown
So you were not like watching Netflix and stuff. I'm going to I'm going to follow this what the health diet or I'm going to do the game changers This is based you are not influenced you did it all on your own correct?
Dr. Won
Yeah. So I actually did it before all those documentaries came out. And the researchers were there. And and what happened was one of my friends from medical school, he came to visit me at one time and then he gave me a book called China Study. And I thought, maybe because he knew that I was also into business. This was about economics book. I didn't even see the cover. And then I kind of put it in the bookshelf and I forgot about it for a long time. And then once I started doing the research, there's a The China Study kept on coming up. And I said, Wait a minute, I think I have a book called China Study. Written by Dr. Campbell from Cornell, and now pulled it out, read it cover to cover, along with other studies, and then realize you can actually reverse the disease. And this has been the studies been going on, you know, there's been studies since 1950s. And so I was convinced I said, You know what, I'm going to do this for myself. And without even trying at first thing I did was wait is, you know, important, but not the most important thing, but I instantaneously lost 25 pounds. And I was back at the weight when I was in high school. And you haven't seen many you know, you don't most people think there's not too many, you know, overweight or obese Asians? Well, in America, there are plenty not and maybe not in Asia, and I was becoming one of them. And so instantaneously, I was back into my high school weight. And then I started exercising on regular basis, and I felt so much better and now I'm I feel better and stronger than when I was in high school. And until about, you know, three years ago, I couldn't even do a single pull up. And and now I can do quite a bit and my goal is by the time I'm 50 I'm going to be able to do muscle up.
Ken Brown
Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, I got to actually Eric super into CrossFit. So he can teach you the whole technique on that.
Dr. Won
That'll be great.
Ken Brown
We can sit there and do that. It was on last week's show of the week before we actually discussed the fact that when coke really started penetrating China, that's really when their obesity problems started the high fructose corn syrup and all that
Dr. Won
Oh, yeah. Yeah, all the the processed food, right. And then, you know, along with the, you know, meat consumption, and as a developed countries are getting wealthier and wealthier they're eating just like American Standard American Diet, right, all the processed food, all the sugar, all the the, you know, high fat animal products. Even in America, average Americans consume about 250 pounds of animal products every single year, which is a tremendous amount, right? And so, and then the China's Study...
Ken Brown
How many pounds?
Dr. Won
250 pounds. I thought that's a that's a lot right? That's average Americans since I'm I don't eat any somebody is eating 500 pounds of meat every single year right?
Ken Brown
I'm gonna look at that cow and go. I'm gonna eat half of you this year. The whole cow.
Dr. Won
That is a tremendous amount. I think they said also during the Superbowl, I don't know how they come up with the numbers. Every every year during the Superbowl people consume about 1.6 billion chicken wings. Oh my god.
Ken Brown
1.6 billion chicken wings. Yes. For the for the Super Bowl.
Dr. Won
Super Bowl.
Ken Brown
All right. Yeah, that is a lot of wingless chickens running around.
Dr. Won
Yeah, absolutely. And, and you know that the chicken these days doesn't look anything like the chickens from let's say even hundred years ago, because they're genetically modified, you know, and they have so much more antibiotics. They have so much more chemicals, growth hormones, and so people are so concerned about eating food that's not Genetically modified but most people in America don't know where the food comes from. And they don't really think about it especially when it's in a hamburger or chicken sandwich which they really do need to pay attention whether you're plant based or not, you should really know where your food comes from.
Ken Brown
You know, I mean I love having you on here because even as gastroenterologist and even though I think like kind of we want to treat the whole body I've I have not spent that much time really going over the whole diet thing because I naively am like okay, this is the weight I want to be. This is kind of what I want to look like when I'm when I'm at the beach is you know, if I start not seeing the the ABS or we go from that six pack to the four pack to the two pack to the no pack. Then I just start working out more. Yeah. And I got a little rude wake up call. Last week I went to I have a functional medicine practitioner. His name's Kevin Wilson. It's smart wellness now. And you know, they they do real Like deep dive into the blood work so it isn't just HDL LDL, it's you know, it's LDL, C it's Apolipoprotein B, it's all this. And my cholesterol went up. I'm feeling better than I ever felt what? And he's like, yeah, you're doing something wrong, buddy. Yeah, and you know, and quite honestly, I'm pretty much paleo so i don't i don't really do dairy or gluten, but I will mowdown some meat. Got to eat my 500 lbs. So you got me rethinking. So he's given me three months to try and reverse this. So I'm starting a little bit slow and so I'm not I'm gonna start watching your videos for sure. Because I did the thing that most people do. I went and watch Game Changers on Netflix and and which is a very fascinating documentary in the sense that that got more traction than what the health and knives over forks and all those other vegan propaganda ones, because I think that they were talking about performance.
Dr. Won
Yes,
Ken Brown
What you're describing is exactly that you're you this is not an ethical thing. This is not a a conscious choice. You were like, No, I did my research this, I can be healthier.
Dr. Won
Yes. I mean, I did this because for my health, and you know, I always tell people that I want to live until 120 years old, I may have had a better chance if I actually started when I was in my 20s.
Ken Brown
You know, that will just be you. And Dave Aspy having tea together because he says the exact same thing on his podcast.
Dr. Won
I think he says he wants to live forever. And so I don't know if that's possible yet. But they said he, if you do it, right, the kids who are born today have a potential to live until 150 years old
Ken Brown
A hundred and 50 years old, have the potential?
Dr. Won
Have the potential. But but the sad thing is the kids you know, between age 10 to 12 years old, what percentage of the kids actually have early signs of atherosclerosis? 75%
Ken Brown
What?
Dr. Won
75% of the kids between age 10 to 12 years old, have already fatty strix.
Ken Brown
No!
Dr. Won
They all found that the...
Ken Brown
That's nuts there's no way!
Dr. Won
Even the fetuses are now showing up. unfortunate event because, you know, whatever, you know, may have happened. But when they do an autopsy on fetus, even the fetus, some of the fetus actually have, you know, some fatty Strix, depending on Mother's, you know, a vascular system. Right? So, you're starting at life already having early signs of cardiovascular disease, what is that? Right? And so when mom said, you know, I'm really, you know, sensitive to listen moms who are pregnant, and then also parents, they have such a difficult, you know, challenges, you know, feeding their kids, but they're not really thinking about what they're serving them, right. And I cringe when I go to a breakfast, and then you know, next table, you know, parents are serving their kids bacon, or hotdogs, and the kids and the food that is known by World Health Organization as a group one carcinogen, right. So I think we need to really step back and educate the public and help them see what they're putting on their, on their table. And when I saw the article where the kids, you know, between 10 and 12 years old, 75% of them had already have signs of, you know, cardiovascular disease. I mean, that's terrible. We're not doing something right. And we spend so much money on managing the disease, which we don't do very well. But and, you know, completely forgetting about preventative medicine because there's no money in preventive medicine. Right? That's that was our mission is to actually go to community and and teach them how to eat properly. And so, so we've done not only lectures at our clinic, but also if anybody wants to hear us talk. We'll go and give a talk. And we've gone down to the south side and then the African American churches to church in Richardson at Methodist, you know, pretty much 99% Caucasian, you know, congregation. Or you know, community centers who wants to learn about...
Ken Brown
You still have the guts to go to a nice Korean BBQ establishment and give a talk? I like Korean bbq man!
Dr. Won
Yeah, you know, for whatever reason Koreans were known for Korean barbecue, but in Korea actually. Their health is declining like in China because the meat consumption has increased processed food, and then their lifestyle is changing. But you know, they used to be one of the healthiest country in the world, because they were too poor to actually eat meat. It wasn't available. Everyone wants to eat. So if you look at all the countries, all the cities and along the Blue Zones, the the cities that have the most amount of centenarians, most people are poor. So by being rich, yeah, you may have money to spend it, but you're actually ruining your health.
Ken Brown
Alright. So I was going to ask you this, and it's a perfect it's a perfect segue right now. So I was talking to one of my patients today that she's going to be a guest here shortly what happens to have Crohn's disease and gives back to the community just like you she works as a counselor and does all this and she happens to be a speech therapist for underprivileged kids with autism. So part of this, you know, they, they send them with the with the school system. And so her and I started talking, I started talking about how last week we did a whole show on a chemical that makes plastic flexible, called DEHP you've been exposed to it a ton as a doctor. So have I that's what IV bags are. That's what the tubing is, all the catheters and tools that we use to be flexible so that we're not puncturing where we don't want to use this chemical dehp. And when you said in utero, they're finding stuff as it turns out in utero, if a if a woman is exposed to it, it just goes to the fetus and causes all kinds of stuff.
Dr. Won
Oh, wow.
Ken Brown
So what her and I talked about is I'm like man, well, what can what can you do to circumvent this autism at you know, I mean, basically epidemic She's like they're too poor to eat healthy.
Dr. Won
Yeah.
Ken Brown
So now you just said that when countries were poor, they ate healthier. So let's talk about the cost of, of living your lifestyle. Is it possible if I don't have a high income to eat a plant based whole food diet?
Dr. Won
Absolutely. When people are thinking Whole Foods plant based, I think a lot of people get that confused and they think it's vegan. And then and they get meat replacement products, which are actually quite expensive. Right?
Dr. Won
So when you do...
Ken Brown
This guy did that when he watched game changers and it didn't work out well.
Dr. Won
Yeah.
Ken Brown
Because I think the either the fillers or the soy or something may be very inflamed.
Dr. Won
Yeah.
Ken Brown
So I backed off.
Dr. Won
So one of the things I really you know, it's also talked to the vegan community is that you know, they've already given up the meat which is the one of the most difficult thing for a lot of people. However, they also need to get away from the processed food because most of the the meat replacement products are processed. So when you're eating a whole food plant based, you are eating non processed or minimally processed food. And so the best place you know, and the best pharmacy is actually with F, you know, FARMACY right Farmacy is in the produce section, that is the medicine, that's where people need to go shop. And so if you get dried beans, it costs pennies, right? Versus, you know, getting ground beef or getting chicken breast. So actually eating whole food plant based can be very, very inexpensive. That's why and along the the Blue Zones, the you know, like nicoya, Costa Rica, Okinawa, Japan, you know, Sardinia, and aquaria. All those countries, all those communities, people were relatively poor, they're not wealthy at all, even especially like nicoya they were eating mostly beans
Ken Brown
Where's the Nicoya?
Dr. Won
Costa Rica.
Ken Brown
Okay.
Dr. Won
Yeah. And it's one of the cities and Blue Zones that has the most amount of centenarians, right? And and there were most they're all 98% eating plants because they were too poor to eat meat. And they're living beyond and then they didn't necessarily go to the gym, you know, or CrossFit or 24 Hour Fitness, because they walked every day everywhere, they didn't have cars, right? So they're moving their body every single day. They're eating mostly plant, and because that's all they had available to them. And then they had sense of community and, and they had sense of purpose. And you mentioned purpose earlier, I think that is so critical. You have to have a reason for living, right? You have to have why, as long as you have why, and sense of purpose, no matter what challenges are in front of you, you can overcome them. And that's how powerful human beings are. And if you decide to just give up, that is a failure. And no matter how many mistakes you make, how many, you know, failures and debt that you face, as long as you stand back up, and then continue to, you know, pursue your purpose and your why I think Most people will be very, very happy.
Ken Brown
Yeah, I think that you saying that you came at 11 years old, you started your journey, probably not the easiest time in your life.
Dr. Won
Not at all, I didn't know how to speak English. And but all our family, you know, including my parents, we worked as a janitors, you know, don't want to get my parents in trouble. But when we're 12,13,14 years old, we used to go help our parents, you know, clean the toilets in the building and then I still pass by one of the buildings we used to clean when I was 14 years old. And and that's what we did as a family. And then they, you know, open to the flea market store. My mother was shot at, you know, twice when she was working at the flea market store when she was being robbed. Right. And luckily, they missed, thank goodness and then where my parents lived after I left for college. There was a drive by shooting at my parents house. They got the wrong House, it was supposed to be the next door. But my parents were asleep. And then fortunately, their windows were shattered. And so, you know, we grew up very humble. And a lot of people think that, you know, you're a doctor, you must have come from a doctor family. That wasn't the case at all. And we live in the government assisted housing. But, you know, our parents always gave us you know, good foundation, and always, you know, taught us to have purpose in life. And that really, you know, sunk in with us for you know, since we were little child Yeah, and, and in always the life force, you know, living the life with purpose, and, and that was our mission.
Ken Brown
So, you come over here you go through this kind of hardship. Now, we kind of tongue in cheek, talked about how I hope you're as smart as Eric obviously Eric's a very smart guy. He's my crna and he's he could he's still continues to do whatever he wants to do he has entrepreneurial spirit very, very like minded like us. He's very big into purpose into raising his kids the right way and all that stuff. But your your academic background is super impressive. I mean, you know, just for the average person that says, Oh, that's a doctor. Now there's levels of doctor, there's levels of med schools, you gotta really work to get into some of these places. And I, I'm just so impressed that you basically have to put your career that you were worked so hard to do, and you went awesome. I'm gonna work on this now. I love that. I think that is the coolest thing. And I'm learning for you. So I want to ask you a couple quick questions.
Dr. Won
Yes.
Ken Brown
Because these are the arguments that I get. So the community that I'm in I'm in fact, I should. We'll we'll talk afterwards, but I've been part of some really cool entrepreneurial groups, where it's just like minded people that all they do is sit around and say don't step on this land mine. I blew off my left, you know, theoretically, in a business sense, I blew up my left foot doing that I wouldn't do that, try this software instead try this thing and you know, you read books and stuff like that. Well, a lot of these people are the Paleo community, and they're really smart people, Chris kresser, Rob Wolf, you know, become friends with them in these groups. And what what I'm hearing is, is that in Kevin Wilson, my doctor is not plant based. He's very big into paleo and all these other things. So a couple curveballs towards you.
Dr. Won
Sure.
Ken Brown
All right. Let's talk about the thing that I get asked a whole lot. Lectins. So you said Dr. Beans do this, what's your thought on lectins? Do they create and then that's going to lead us into the microbiome and and eventually into your entrepreneurial spirit where you continue to grow? So that's where I want to head with this. But can we talk about lectins real quick?
Dr. Won
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a you know, very interesting topic. And so if you think about the Lectin especially in the beans, no one can eat them being raw. You don't eat dry beans, you can eat it, you can't digest it, and we don't recommend it. Right? Because if you eat it, you're going to get nauseated, you're probably gonna throw up. However, if you cook them properly, right, all the lectins are gone, right? And so lectins are there so that the plants can protect itself and so a little bit it's actually healthy for you because you're stressing your body. However once you cook them...
Ken Brown
Hormesis.
Dr. Won
Yes, absolutely right.
Ken Brown
The term Hormesis means that you stress your body a little bit so it adapts.
Dr. Won
Yes
Ken Brown
That's why we exercise that's why we fast that's why we do things.
Dr. Won
That's why you know, we get exposed to heat that's why we take cold showers right?
Ken Brown
I don't take cold showers. I refuse to go that route. I'll sit in a sauna but I will not do a cold shower.
Dr. Won
You should try it you know maybe 10 seconds first and you know 15 seconds in the beginning you hate it. But you'll learn to love it. But the lectins...
Dr. Won
We're gonna get to elections really quick. Just Just this reminds me my late father in law passed away a few years ago, we were watching a show on navy seals. And a Navy SEAL actually did a obstacle course, where he first soaked himself in warm water, and then did the course. And then they put him in ice water. And then within a sofigel probe, they show that he dropped his core temperature and then through various Navy SEAL techniques, he raised his core temperature. And so my father in law, this is on Christmas, this is about 10 years ago, goes you know, it's Dallas, it's not that cold, but it's cold enough. It's It was like 30 or 40 or something. He goes, I bet you can't even get in that pool. I went out there with my son and my father in law and I jumped in and like a total weenie jumped out in about 10 seconds. So the whole cold thing I think that's funny, but all right, that's the whole point is is that lectins can do this. Let's get back to lectins
Dr. Won
Yeah, so but once you actually properly cooked the meals, yeah, I recommend soaking them at least for eight hours or even 24 hours.
Ken Brown
Soaking the beans first?
Dr. Won
Yes, soak the beans minimum of eight hours. If you have a pressure cooker you don't need to soak them you just dump it in there and you cook it
Ken Brown
Do can beans qualify?
Dr. Won
The can beans are already cooked so you don't even need to cook it you can just open it and start eating them.
Ken Brown
Do you find can beings unhealthy or do you always do whole food?
Dr. Won
At the house we have both dry beans and canned beans because to make it a little bit more convenient, right. And the can beans are, the studies have shown that they still retain just as much nutrients. And so when I'm really busy, I would open up a can can beans with the my whole grains and mix them up along with different kinds of spices and then along with different greens, but once you cook the bean most of the lectins are gone. So there's really nothing to worry about. And so you don't need to take Lectin you know, supplements or anything like that. If you properly cook the food, then there's really no issues with lectin and if you think about it, so beans are the most known for lectins right? Every single one of the cities, right? There's one common theme among Blue Zones, five cities that has the most amount of centenarians, right? The research by Dan Buettner from National Geographics every single one of them that the common theme was Beans, beans, beans, beans
Ken Brown
Shut up! Really?
Dr. Won
Every single one of them there was their main source of protein was their beans.
Ken Brown
Dang. And I've actually been avoiding them because I'm trying to you know, I've just kind of go with the no grain thing.
Dr. Won
Yeah, so the beans is one of the healthiest thing one can consume. Not only it's a great source of protein, but also it's also has so many fodder nutrients. And I consider them as a superfood really, really cheap. Super food,
Ken Brown
What are your favorite beans?
Dr. Won
All of them, but we have at the house about 10 different kinds of beans. And then when I make grains I usually mix like black beans, pinto beans, white beans, navy beans, kidney beans, along with let's say buckwheat brown rice, wild black rice, barley, mix them up, and then that's how I make the rice and so rice and beans. I don't you know we definitely avoid any refined grains such as white rice,
Ken Brown
Oh you do?
Dr. Won
Yeah, I we avoid any kind of white anything that's white right?
Ken Brown
Okay, so I hope that helped my wife is listening my wife's Puerto Rican.
Dr. Won
Uh huh.
Ken Brown
So i mean...beans and rice. Yeah, it's just pretty much it's whatever. I'm like, Honey, what are we having? She's like salmon, and beans and rice.
Dr. Won
Yeah. That's good. And you just got to put in some greens.
Ken Brown
But but but but you avoid the white rice
Dr. Won
White rice. Yeah. So the...
Ken Brown
As a Korean you still avoid white rice because we love I mean, that's actually our favorite. If we're going to globalize our cuisine for my family, I got a 15 year old a 13 year old and we essentially eat Japanese in this order. Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese, Chinese almost anytime we get a chance to eat out.
Dr. Won
You're inner asian.
Ken Brown
I'm we are definitely Yeah, it's a it is it is definitely our favorite cuisine. So we end up eating a lot of rice.
Dr. Won
Yeah. So interesting fact is that the, the in Asia, you know, while back the white rice was you know, it's extra process right? So this was actually for aristocrats or the wealthy individuals, all the poor people ate brown rice, which is less processed it's unprocessed. Right? And so the the poor people actually live longer they were healthier than rich people, right? Same thing happened 100 years ago, the rich people ate white bread, right? And then the the poor people ate the whole grain bread. And guess what it was a poor people who are healthier, right? So you know, grains, especially white grains, they're extra processed. And so and also raises your blood sugar level much, much faster and raise you know, increases more insulin production or release of insulin. So we try to avoid anything that's processed. So including the the grains. So if you eat you know, brown rice or you know buckwheat barley, black white rice those are the grains that I would recommend that I say it's whole grains not grains, whole grains,
Dr. Won
Whole grains?
Dr. Won
whole grain.
Ken Brown
Beans, beans, okay lectins get destroyed when they get soaked and then followed by cooking and or canned.
Dr. Won
Yes.
Ken Brown
And then...
Dr. Won
Because canned beans are cooked.
Ken Brown
Can can beans are cooked and as far as the grains, so yeah, the This works really well for you. And I know right now that there's, you know what I've seen with diets, especially when people make a living like if they have a book or so I mean, I hung out with Rob wolf, the guy looks amazing. He's been keto for 10 years. And Chris kresser is essentially you know, straight up paleo and, you know, I know his blood work is amazing. We've talked about that. And so there are, you know, the the things that actually work it's not working for me. My doctor just told me that's why I'm like, Oh, yeah, we need to we need to call Doug, I need to I need I need to eat his brain and figure out what's going on here because maybe my genetics, so you use the term epigenetics a little while ago. Explain what epigenetics actually is, because there's some confusion around this.
Dr. Won
Yeah. So just to simply put it way I like to explain it is our gene is like a light switch. Right? So we are born with certain genes, unfortunately, for some people, and they may have a greater risk of developing certain type of disease. But just because you carry the gene does not actually mean you're actually going to develop those disease. But there's a lot of external factors, environmental factors, including the cancers, right. And so by a proper nutrition and lifestyle, you actually have the ability to turn the genes on or turn them off. So what that tells us is that you actually have a full control. So you know, like Elizabeth Blackburn who won a Nobel prize from UT Southwestern for discovering telomeres did a study with the
Ken Brown
She's the one that discovered telomere races?
Dr. Won
Yeah. So along with the telomeres, and that's what she, she won the Nobel Prize,
Ken Brown
Did not know that wow, out of here, out of here in Dallas
Dr. Won
Yeah at UT Southwestern.
Ken Brown
That's, that's impressive.
Dr. Won
So she did the research with Dean Ornish, and they got group of patients who had early stage prostate cancer. And then when they did the genetic study, all the over 500 cancer genes were actually turned on. And then they spent three months changing their diet and lifestyle. And then they did the the genetic study again, all the genes were actually cancer genes were turned off over 550 cancer genes, Uncle genes are turned off. So you only took them three months o so especially prostate cancer, right? Especially if you catch them early stage, you really want to treat them with diet and lifestyle change. They said the the traditional surgery, whether it's a chemo or the surgery does not prolong only one out of 49 people actually live longer after getting traditional, conventional medical treatment.
Ken Brown
Well, when you start looking at some of this, I listened to a podcast called medical reversals. It was on Freakonomics, the Freakonomics podcast. And they they actually had some doctors on there. And they and if you look back at all these medical reversals, so basically your doctor says, do this, and then we go, Oh, no, that was wrong, because now we've looked at our cohorts of 10,000 patients over 10 years. We can go on and on about that the estrogen replacement therapy, one of the things that's been brought up and I brought this up to my doctor because my cholesterol is statins and statins have not been shown to improve lifespan. And so the question is, do they actually decrease the incidence of events, but it has not been shown to improve lifespan. So now I start. I'm at that stage in my career in medicine where I'm starting to question so many things. I'm having patients come to me, and well, let's throw this one out with autoimmune disease. And you and I were talking about this I treat a lot of Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis. I use drugs like Remicade and humera. Have you had any experience with as an orthopedist you're going to be exposed to rheumatoid arthritis, you're going to be exposed to ankylosing spondylitis. Poly arthropathy from these other things. Have you had any wins with using your method?
Dr. Won
Absolutely. So some of them are my patients and some of them are attendees to our free seminars. And I gave an example of Denise she gave us a permission to talk about her. And so she came to us suffering from severe rheumatoid arthritis and she's been on multiple medications, even methylstrexate as in the past and humira. And humira costs 25 to $50,000 a year. Right? And one of the side effects is heart failure. And she began to have a severe heart issue. So they had to take her off. And and she she was in severe pain. And so I said, you know, you got nothing to lose. You tried everything else. So why don't you try a whole food plant based nutrition, and that's what she did. She did that. January 1, 2018. Within two months, she was in remission. All the pains were gone
Ken Brown
On her alright rheumatoid arthritis?
Dr. Won
Rheumatoid arthritis.
Ken Brown
So rheumatoid arthritis is an autoimmune disease. Autoimmune means you something turns a genetic switch on and your body starts attacking yourself. In gastroenterology, I see it with all sort of colitis, Crohn's disease, celiac disease, autoimmune hepatitis. In your field. You see it with the joints.
Dr. Won
With the joints rheumatoid arthritis, but we also I've seen patients with multiple sclerosis, right? And actually, this was another patient who walked in or not walked in, came into the clinic on a wheelchair and had multiple sclerosis. So we actually...
Ken Brown
In a wheelchair?
Dr. Won
In a wheelchair.
Ken Brown
That's very advanced MS
Dr. Won
It's pretty advanced. And and the patient went whole food plant based, and was six to eight months later, when they came back for a follow up visit. He actually walked out walked in with a cane. So he still had weakness, but it got him off the wheelchair and now he's able to strong enough to actually walk with a cane.
Ken Brown
Just diet change?
Dr. Won
Just a diet change. And he was off to all the medications and he's not the only one and there's a one lifestyle medicine physician even up in New Jersey, a good friend. She was initially infectious disease doctor and during her residency or fellowship, she woke up one day completely paralyzed.
Ken Brown
What?
Dr. Won
And that's how she discovered she had multiple sclerosis. And to a point she was walking with a cane and she was bad to get on a wheelchair. And she made the she discovered she read an article about blueberries, right? She said No way. There's no way and this can't be and she starts researching and really realized the autoimmune disease starts from the gut. And she needed to find a way to decrease inflammation. And she needed to once she healed her gut, and she changed her complete, you know, nutrition when whole food plant based. 10 years later, she ran a marathon.
Ken Brown
I'm sorry, I don't have any Kleenex. Do you have any Kleenex because I have tears of joy. I just had an orthopedic surgeon say that. Everything starts in the gut. Oh,
Dr. Won
Yeah. We think that you know, a lot of the the lifestyle medicine physicians and believe that autoimmune disease may be in a different sort of autoimmune disease, whether it's rheumatoid arthritis, Hashimoto thyroiditis, multiple sclerosis, maybe it disease, it all starts from the gut. And then it manifests to a different disease based on our genetic makeup. And so our treatment method whether it's, you know, lupus, multiple sclerosis, you know, Hashimoto thyroiditis, it's all pretty similar. You know, they may, we may make little bit of a different protocol for them, but overall as a whole food plant based, and many of them improve significantly.
Ken Brown
Wow, that is. So we've actually, that's actually a common theme that we talked about, we have brought some people in, but my thing is we've got lots of data to show that when you have an inflammation in your gut, that leads to an inflammatory cascade that can cause this epigenetic phenomenon. And so somebody sitting around listening, so I want to talk about what else you have going on, which means that you've taken it to the next level, but I everything about, about this show and about what we want to do is talk science first. Clearly, you're a brilliant And you know, you're, I'm a, I'm a gut doctor. So you know your s-h-i-t. So I wanted to throw this article out at you because it's fascinating that we can talk disease. And I could sit there and say if you've got rheumatoid arthritis if you got ms if you have anything, but there's also one underlying thing that happens to all of us and you keep talking about the Blue Zones. A recent review article, my little secret weapon will eventually be able to disclose who it is, but she sent me an article yesterday. And with you coming on it is a review article on the new insights for cellular and molecular mechanism of aging and aging related diseases. herbal medicine is a potential therapeutic approach. So in other words, what this title says is, yo we're all aging. And why do you want to load the gun faster than it should be loaded? So what this article looked at is they go into the background A little bit where 900 million people in the world are over the age of 60.
Dr. Won
Wow.
Ken Brown
And you just pointed out that it doesn't matter where you live now it looks like it's it's pretty much spreading everywhere. So aging, which can be divided into both pathologic and physiologic. So if you are perfectly healthy, you're going to physiologically age if you choose to load your gun faster, that's pathologic aging. And this article gets into really cool geeky science about the complex biological processes and the decline of tissue and origins and structural degeneration and then they go into telomeres and then they go into the fat, a common thing keeps popping up. And it is reactive oxygen species or oxidative stress.
Dr. Won
Yes.
Ken Brown
So stress at a cellular level, or inflammation at a subtle level leads to aging.
Dr. Won
Yes.
Ken Brown
So if you didn't care about anything about the fetus having a heart attack or a 10 year old having coronary artery disease, We spend a lot of money trying to look younger. I just got done talking about the other article that said that at age 47, maybe that's when men look in the mirror and go, Oh, I'm I'm there. I don't know. It all comes down to reactive oxygen species. This leads to they can actually get into the actual mechanism. So one of the things I run into that we have discussed, which is I'm sure you've run into because I think your field is a little bit less holistic than gi, which is probably because the gut affects so many things. But I imagine if you're trying to talk to one of your colleagues at a conference and say hey, plant based they probably look at you like what?
Dr. Won
Yeah, I'm I don't represent typical look of orthopedic surgeon right? So if you imagine orthopedic surgeon those of you who don't know like in medical school, we are like the cords pedic surgeon smart jocks, right? Everyone's hitting the gym, you know, bone broke me fix. Big guys, ex-thletes, right? And then somehow I snuck in as a nerd, right?
Ken Brown
So I have I have a friend who played football for the San Francisco 49 years played at the University of Notre Dame. And we have or he's very good friends with orthopedic surgeon named Brian rhadigan. And he played linebacker for Notre Dame, and if there is ever the avatar of what I thought this guy was just jacked, and you know, and he's an orthopedic surgeon now for Notre Dame.
Dr. Won
Wow.
Ken Brown
But anyways, yeah, so yeah, you you are talking different than the typical orthopedic surgeon.
Dr. Won
Yeah. And so but yeah, but I think even with orthopedics, and also especially in spine, some of our patients, after if they choose to follow our diet and lifestyle modification, they came back even with herniated disc, most of the inflammation was gone, pain was gone, and so they they would cancel the surgery. I said Congratulations, right. And so if I can help patients, that surgery is definitely the last resort.
Ken Brown
Say that one more time you got paid to operate and you were happy when you didn't have to operate?
Dr. Won
Yeah, absolutely. Because there's plenty of patients who's not following the lifestyle modification and who is in agony, who failed all the conservative treatment, who's going to need the surgery. But you know, what I would love to be able to do is to prove to the medical community that so many of the surgeries and procedures that we do are completely unnecessary, because if people are willing to make the lifestyle modification, if the physicians actually know and teach their patients, how to make the modification, because most of them do not know. Right, then I think, you know, many people can avoid significant surgical procedures, whether it's a cardiac cath open, you know, open heart surgeries, which we know that does not extend anybody's life, right. And same thing with spine surgery. And, you know, orthopedics is a little bit If you break a bone, you broke a bone and you need surgery to fix it right?
Ken Brown
Don't try to hobble into whole foods after that skiing accident.
Dr. Won
I don't think that whole foods is going to fix that broken bone, but it may help you heal faster, but you're probably going to still need surgery. And so that is one of my mission and I get a great enjoyment out of it. And you know, I remember one patient who walked in who had a thoracic herniated disc. And you know, in order to do the surgery, we have to do a thoracotomy. So basically cracking our chest open the compress the lung in order to get to the spine from the front. And I said, you really don't want to have this surgery. We can do it if you want to. However, why don't you give me three months make this changes come back in three months. If it doesn't work, then we'll go ahead and do the surgery. She came back to clinic and three months along with her husband, she lost 40 pounds. He lost 60 pounds, right? And she said her pain was gone. And she said doctor, I don't need your service. anymore awesome congratulations. So I think it is very possible and you know once once you have seen that I just get a kick out of it
Ken Brown
I'm feeling like a little jerk right now because we did a show on using cell phones while there people around the bathroom doing social media posts and I I told everybody to keep doing that because it creates hemorrhoids so they can come see me. I feel like a jerk. I'm over there encouraging, sit on the toilet longer and make an appointment with me.
Dr. Won
That's funny.
Ken Brown
Oh, you're making me look bad man. I want to talk about something about this article because I we use the term reactive oxygen species all the time. Now one of the things that they got deep into this article is about a lot of the end origin disease that kills most of us. cardiac disease strokes. dementia. A lot of it comes down to blood vessels. Yes, the endotheliam meaning that as our blood vessels, all this inflammation leads to endothelial dysfunction, and impaired activity and arterial stiffness. And the reason why I bring this up is because I'll plug this the polyphenols and Atrantil we do know that they actually improve the most polyphenols when taken in. There's literature for this. But when we first launched Atrantil we did it strictly for people that bloated and then we had all these people that kept staying on it. And that's when I started backing up because I was looking at one little problem then went, Oh, this is actually it's sad that it's that I'm now learning because all I've been doing is doing plant based, but I started with a pill and now I'm working my way to lifestyle. Yeah, which you're doing lifestyle. And you realized, Hey, I can help people in different ways. So you noticed immediately that endothelium is really important. And when we talked before and you brought me some gifts, I would like to talk about what else you have going on here because very clearly, you have put some serious thought into this. And then I came backwards. I started with a plant based product to treat something and now I'm learning about a plant based lifestyle. Yeah, you did the opposite. You started plant based lifestyle and said, I'm going to produce the best product for that. Yeah. So tell me what you got here.
Dr. Won
Yeah, so one of the things that we developed was, is called Neo Nox is a nitric oxide booster,
Ken Brown
Neo Nox
Dr. Won
neo neo, no x, no x, and this product was developed without intention of developing a supplement company. what we realized was as I was doing research, even as a physician, we knew that heart disease was a number one killer, but I didn't realize how severe it was. It is actually the number one killer of both men and women worldwide. Right? And, you know,
Ken Brown
Yeah we start seeing once women go into menopause. Yeah, they get the same risk as men.
Dr. Won
Yeah, exactly. And, and so and a lot of women just getting neglected and they think it's a man's disease. And but women develop a cardiovascular disease just as much as the guys and, and one in three deaths in us is related to vascular disease. So pretty significant amount. And it all comes down to endotheliam and nitric oxide, what I realized was the most important molecule in our body because it saves endotheliam, and is produced it within our endotheliam. However, as we age, by the time you're 40, you lose about 50% of your ability to produce it. By the time you're 60 you lose about 85% of your ability to produce nitric oxide
Ken Brown
Say that one more time.
Dr. Won
So by the time you're 40, you lose about 50% of your ability to produce nitric oxide, which is the most important molecule in our body.
Ken Brown
Why do why do we do that?
Dr. Won
So a few things number one is produced in your endotheliam. Right intercellular is basically the inner lining of your artery. And so, as we age, we develop atherosclerosis, we damage the endotheliam. So therefore, we lose the ability to produce the, the nitric oxide, but along with that...
Ken Brown
So the inflammatory process damaging the endotheliam does not allow us to produce the one molecule to repair the endotheliam.
Dr. Won
Exactly. And so and not only the nitric oxide, is that the strongest vasodilator that lowers of blood pressure, and then also vasodilate the vessels so they're more nutrients and oxygen can be delivered to the end organs, right. It also stimulates the stem cells and activates the stem cells and mobilizes the stem cells,
Ken Brown
nitric oxide does?
Dr. Won
Nitric oxide, and that's how we really actually got into the nitric oxide because we knew we needed to boost the nitric oxide to our patient when we're doing orthopedic stem cell therapy, right to to help them prevent either You know rotator cuff tendonitis and tear surgeries
Ken Brown
We had we had weighed with 10 on our show the orthopedist.
Dr. Won
Yeah.
Ken Brown
From Fort Worth that had the the Panama stem cell clinic.
Dr. Won
Yes. Yeah.
Ken Brown
We deep dived into stem cells. That's some cool stuff. Yeah.
Dr. Won
And but, but most people are looking for that magic pill. They want the injections, right? And the stem cell therapy, but you need to activate them and people who needed the most are typically 60 Plus, right, sometimes 40 Plus, but most of the patients we have arthritis are 60 Plus, but they can't really activate their stem cells because they don't have any nitric oxide. That's part of the reason why people develop cardiovascular disease. people develop diabetes, right? people develop erectile dysfunction, which is a vascular disease. Right. And so that's, that's why the even Biograph Cialis only works on 50% of the population.
Ken Brown
So one of the reasons why game changers has been so much more well received is that they have a whole segment on nighttime boners Yeah. And how eating a plant based diet actually improves erectile dysfunction.
Dr. Won
Yes.
Ken Brown
And so and not just erectile dysfunction actually improves nocturnal erections I should say. Yeah, boner seems a little bit unprofessional.
Dr. Won
You are a doctor.
Ken Brown
But um, yeah. So that's, that's one of the things so it's, it's when you talk anti aging or you talk sexual performance, that's what people spend all their money. Yes. They don't sit there and go, Oh, I'm going to have a heart attack. Yeah, when really, it's all the same process. It's all the same thing. The thing that's making you look older, the thing that's making you not perform as well in bed is the exact same that's going to kill you!
Dr. Won
Exactly. And, and, you know, the dementia, which are mostly now we're realizing that is a vascular disease also, because you're just not getting enough blood to your brain, right. And so, and also lack of energy, you know, after age 40, everyone's fatigue suffering from fatigue, lack of energy, because mitochondrial biogenesis is actually initiated by nitric oxide also. So it helps nitric oxide stimulates the production of mitochondria, which is the energy source.
Ken Brown
There we go. Yeah, so that's the that's the energy source of every cell. Every cell has a little power plant. Yes, it's called the mitochondria
Dr. Won
And mitochondria dysfunction is one of the major problem that people face, especially 40 plus. So there's so many different things and even diabetes and insulin resistance. Without nitric oxide, nitric oxide depletion will increase insulin resistance also. So so there's so many nitric oxide is serves also as a messenger. And you can all it also is gas you can almost think of it as hormone. And so it's so critical that we decided and we were initially looking for nitric oxide products to to give to our patients, especially the stem cell therapy patients, but we couldn't find one that was you know, with the high quality product. Most of the products unfortunately are made for younger group of people who are working out at the gym for that, you know, extra pump.
Ken Brown
NO Explode! Get your pump on! Do this go to and then you find out that 99% of them have nothing in it
Dr. Won
They have nothing in it, they have a lot of caffeine different stimulant that gives them energy, but it's not really delivering more oxygen and more blood to where it needs to go. So we decided that, you know, we're going to produce pure nitric oxide booster ourselves initially just to give to our patient and that was part of the package for stem cell therapy.
Ken Brown
Oh, really. So like that was like, Look, if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna go through the trouble of either injecting you're operating on you, then you're going to walk out of here with at least a bag that's going to help you recover, improve and have I don't want to waste my time is basically what you were saying.
Dr. Won
Yeah, because we we were encouraging to change their diet and lifestyle, encourage them to eat for for patients with the current severe cardiovascular disease. Our protocol is having them eat dark green leafy vegetables six times a day, right because this green leafy vegetable that contains most amount of nitrate that gets converted into the nitric oxide. And so we also tell them...
Ken Brown
How does it get converted?
Dr. Won
So when the nitrate actually gets converted initiated by the bacteria is in the posterior third of your tongue, right? So so that's why we strongly recommend people not using mouthwash, right antiseptic mouthwash, because not only kills bad bacteria, but also good bacteria. So the mouthwash is actually associated with the cardiovascular disease. So so that's the first thing to you. Yeah. And then also...
Ken Brown
Dude you're blowing my mind! You're like the smartest orthopedic surgeon I've ever met. Once again, we'll get back to it. In medical school, our big job was you take the it's really hard to get into orthopedic surgery. You take the smartest person from med school and by the time they an orthopedic surgeon they're the dumbest, you have done the exact opposite man.
Dr. Won
Yeah cuz you don't really have to think about it right. And and, you know, once we're in we're at the VA hospital, during the residency. We had a patient you know, who hadn't you know, MI We got an EKG, we're getting a medicine console. And then they said, oh, we're too busy with consoles. You guys are, you know, residents, you take care of it. And then we said, Well, I think the patient have St. Depression Wait a minute, I think we got the EKG upside down elevation, and then the medicine residents that will be right there. So we try to forget about the medicine but but...
Ken Brown
Yeah, so that is so i i went deep into the whole nitric oxide thing, because I like to work out. I did it strictly because I was like, Oh, yeah, I'd like to get some more. And I was freaked out that it starts out that the bacteria has to convert the nitrate
Dr. Won
Yeah, nitrate into nitrite. And your saliva contains significant amount of nitrate. And so and then your bacteria on your tongue converts it into nitrite. And when it goes into your stomach, your stomach has to be acidic enough in order to actually convert it into nitric oxide. So when patients are also on proton pump inhibitors, they said that One of the most disservice that's done to the large population, and people are Nexium Prilosec, because it doesn't make your stomach acid acidic enough. But also the the proton pump inhibitors actually stimulates the the AMDA, which is inhibits the nitric oxide synthase, the enzyme that actually produces the nitric oxide. So the proton pump inhibitor also has a strong correlation with the heart disease.
Ken Brown
Oh my god. So that's why there's the correlation.
Dr. Won
Yes. It's because it inhibits production of nitric oxide. That's where the correlation comes from.
Ken Brown
Dude! I'm on ppi's. I've tried to come off. I'm like all my patients.
Dr. Won
I was on it too.
Ken Brown
I end up with horrible heartburn.
Dr. Won
Yes.
Ken Brown
Like I will sit there and just go oh my gosh, screw this. I don't care if there's a slight risk of dementia or have a slight risk of corner, coronary artery disease. I'm in a lot of pain, pain trumps everything.
Dr. Won
Absolutely. I was actually at one time. I thought I was having a heart attack in the middle of the surgery.
Ken Brown
You had a reflux?
Dr. Won
Because I had such a bad reflux.
Ken Brown
Wow.
Dr. Won
And so and then you know I would stop surgery anesthesiologists would have to give me antacids so I can get back into surgery. And, but once I went a whole food plant based within three weeks, I used to sleep with three pillows. Within three weeks, it was gone, my seasonal allergy was gone. I lost weight, and then my reflux was completely gone.
Ken Brown
If I can figure out a way to get my patients and myself off of a PPI that it's funny, there's always going to be one trigger that will get somebody to pay attention, right?
Dr. Won
Yeah.
Ken Brown
And it's the it's the thing closest to home. Yeah, I, I, I steal the samples that they give us. And I just I get terrified. The one thing I do whenever I travel, it's like, Okay, I need to make sure that I have my contact case, my glasses, my PPI, and then everything else is kind of secondary. It's like, yeah, I'll buy underwear. If I forget underwear. I'll do whatever but I need those Three things I need to be able to see and I do not want that heartburn to come back. Wow. But nitric oxide?
Dr. Won
So the one of the patients, the group of people, we definitely recommend nitric oxide supplement. And the booster is people who are on PPI who can't seem to come off, but they really do need to make an effort to do whatever is necessary to come off of it.
Ken Brown
That's interesting. So what why what why can't I just go to Walmart and just buy no explode? what's what's unique about yours?
Dr. Won
Yeah, so it's well balanced because there's a two main pathways nitric oxide gets produced. Number one is the endothelial pathway. And so you have to balance that along with the the nitrate nitrite pathway. So you know for endothelial pathway may work well for if you're young and you're endotheliam is not damaged. So most of the products that you see in the market is really just geared towards endotheliam it's not balanced between the endotheliam and nitrate nitrite pathway. So we were able to come up with a formula that balances the two and so that you can actually elevate the nitric oxide through the nitrate nitrite pathway. And then so then you can increase the endothelial progenitor cells. So by also you know eating like dark green leafy vegetables, use this as a supplement and then in a nutritionally increasing the, the nitric oxide that will help start to repair the endotheliam once you do that, then then endothelial will function properly. So, so it's balancing the two and most of the products out in the market are really geared towards young gym goers, you know, who wants to grow their muscle, and then a lot of times they don't even make nitric oxide. That's ...
Ken Brown
Yeah,everything is either arginine or citrulline.
Dr. Won
Yeah, so it have to be and we now know that arginine really doesn't work
Ken Brown
Yeah, I was listening to a podcast on that where I went, Oh my God, I've spent so much money, because I have been taking I'm that I'm that the the I'm gonna call myself an idiot. I will research the heck out of something for my patients. But I will knee jerk if I'm like, Oh, cool. I can work out harder. Yeah, yeah, I'll take that. And not do my homework on it.
Dr. Won
They say the doctors are the wrong and the worst patients, right?
Ken Brown
Yeah,
Dr. Won
But the, we use the Arginine does get converted to citrulline and makes the nitric oxide, right. So, in the beginning, most people thought, okay, if we give them arginine, it would work. However, in order to make enough nitric oxide if you had intact endothelium, you have to each serving has to be about 10 grams. If you have 10 grams of Arginine, most likely you are having diarrhea. And so, you know, yeah, you may boost the nitric oxide a little bit, but you're having diarrhea at the same time. I think that would be a pretty significant side effect.
Ken Brown
It's gonna affect the workout.
Dr. Won
Yeah. It's gonna definitely work out. Yeah. Yeah,
Ken Brown
You want get that PR on that deadlift or that squat. Oh, no you don't want that!
Dr. Won
And so the better method would be boost. With the citraline, that it goes to the urea cycle. And so you don't have to have a high dose and then that actually gets converted into arginine. And then that would actually make the nitric oxide but you also want to have the proper amount of cofactors so cofactors such as a methylfolate. So the metallized activated folate ascorbic acid. And then those you know, you We also put in the pine bark extract which actually stimulates the...
Ken Brown
I'm unfamiliar with that.
Dr. Won
Yeah nitric oxide synthase, which owns and actually produces the nitric oxide also can pass through the blood brain barrier, and so that it actually stimulates the nitric oxide synthase within your brain also, and so that increases the blood circulation in the brain as well.
Ken Brown
I have never come across that. I mean, I try and read a lot on this stuff. So Alright, so that's interesting. You put a lot of thought into your nitric oxide booster you don't use citrulline or arginine, what do you actually use in there?
Dr. Won
So we we do have citraline in there.
Ken Brown
Okay,
Dr. Won
Because we also want to stimulate the endotheliam . pathway along all along with a pine bark extract and also we have the the ingredients to stimulate the nitrate nitrite pathway along with the cofactors so we have all the ingredients and then also antioxidants important because the the nitric oxide is unstable a radical and so so then therefore we need antioxidant to allow it to stay in there longer. And then one of the cofactor is actually a bH4 which actually gets stabilized by curcumin, the in the studies have shown so we actually have curcumin in turmeric in the our neo nox product as well.
Ken Brown
Oh, awesome. So we've got the nitric oxide and what else what else do you have?
Dr. Won
So we also have a new antiox. As you mentioned, inflammation is the root cause of most of the disease. And so we want to help people keep the inflammation down, as well as you also mentioned oxidative stress, right? And so people need to consume more antioxidant most of the antioxidants are in plants. And that's why you know, plant based
Ken Brown
Polyphenols!
Dr. Won
Polyphenols right? And so what we have found was one of our main ingredients is amla, Indian gooseberry powder, which is the most powerful...
Ken Brown
So I just wanna clarify. amla is indian gooseberry?
Dr. Won
Yes.
Ken Brown
Oh, I've always thought of them as different things. Yeah, I have read about gooseberry and its ORAC potential. And amla because we use that I put that in my subscription box because of the anti diabetic insulin resistant effect.
Dr. Won
It's the same thing. So you mentioned ORAC score. So we all know that blueberries it has a high antioxidant capacity, right? And so ORAC score wise is about 4500. And then the ginger which we also know it has high antioxidant capacity as well as its anti inflammatory, which is about 49,000 and tumeric, which we know it's like the king of superfood, right, but it has about 120,000 or ORAC Score, indian gooseberry is about 265,000 so it is by far the most powerful antioxidant food on the planet there's really nothing that's has more antioxidant capacity. And so so we included the emla which is an Indian gooseberry powder along with tumeric curcumin which is the active ingredient. But you know turmeric has about 300 active ingredients and curcumin is the most well known and most studied and but the studies have shown that you want to have not just curcumin because that's a one active ingredient. You also want to have the turmeric powder as well.
Ken Brown
I love that you put some thought into this as somebody in the supplement industry. You've put a ton of thought into it. That's exactly what we did when we researched every single ingredient for Antrantil three ingredients we source it, it's pure, I look I went to your website, I saw that you do all the things that we do also which is GM, GMP facilities, made in the USA, you know exactly where you source it.
Dr. Won
Yeah, and these are all we also have physician advisory board. And so this this is produced with the the thoughts and advices from all our advisors, and there they all practice lifestyle medicine, anti aging, longevity medicine. And they're all you know,
Ken Brown
It doesn't seem like you need a whole lot more than you, you seem to have the stuff figured out.
Dr. Won
Yeah, but definitely we wanted to do it with as a team effort. I definitely want to give them the credit that they deserve as well.
Ken Brown
That is awesome. And then what else did you bring some Neo greens? What are those?
Dr. Won
Neo greens, and one of the things that we recommend to everyone is at least eat 30 different kinds of plants every single week. So then you give diversity to your gut microbiome. And as you you probably know, so much more than I about the gut microbiome and gut health. And but one of the things that we recommend to people is eat 30 different kinds of plants every single week in order to maximize the diversity of gut microbiome. And I know it's difficult with busy schedule. In average, Americans consume about 10 to 15 grams of fiber per day, right? We recommend eating 70 grams of fiber per day.
Ken Brown
70?
Dr. Won
70.
Ken Brown
Because it's not just I mean, you've got soluble and insoluble. So just saying fiber. A lot of times people will be like, I can't do that I'll get so gassy. You have to realize there's two different kinds of fiber
Dr. Won
Two different kinds.
Ken Brown
And the vegetables really offer the insoluble fiber which does something different.
Dr. Won
As well as soluble.
Ken Brown
As well as soluble.
Dr. Won
Yeah.
Ken Brown
And then they both do different things. They feed, they feed the bacteria, they help you go to the bathroom, they do different things, but they lower the cholesterol, they do all that stuff.
Dr. Won
And and most people initially will feel bloated, that's already a sign that they have, in my mind, poor microbiome, right? Poor gut health, and they don't have the right type of diversity, right type that bacteria. That's why they're getting bloated, they have to get over that phase. So if they're bloated, we tell them slow it down. Just go easy, right? Don't go from 10 grams to 70 grams overnight because you're not going to feel good. But also one of the starter kit for plant based is actually toilet paper. You will go to the bathroom. Quite often, and which is actually good for you, right?
Ken Brown
I want you to listen to so I mentioned a few of these people, but I've been on there. I've been on a lot of these podcasts, which is how I become develop relationships. Chris kresser had a Mayo Clinic gastroenterologist on, you have to understand that the whole concept of the microbiome and dysbiosis and leaky gut, it's the last people to show up are the academicians of my field. So he actually had a Mayo Clinic gastroenterologist on where he said, He's like, well, the whole concept of bacterial overgrowth tseebo may not be that it's as simplistic as bacteria growing where it shouldn't be. It's probably more relevant that we're not feeding them what they need so that they can diversify in the way that they want to be. We are limiting that. And when you look at the the the plasticizer that we're talking about DEHP, they have linked that to a higher incidence of a Clostridium species which produces chemical or a protein called p kressal, which has been linked to autism. So then we keep coming back to the same thing it's, if your microbiome doesn't do what it should it can do bad things against you if you feed it bad things so if you give it the diversity so this Mayo Clinic guy, he blew my mind because it was they're doing like Mr PCR analysis and all this other stuff and he said maybe we should be feeding the foods that people think are causing them the bloating and maybe eventually the bloating will go away. That's exactly what you just said.
Dr. Won
Yes.
Ken Brown
That's crazy.
Dr. Won
Yeah, I mean, that's that is done the main cause. So initial bloating doesn't mean you're you're allergic to the plant food or, or beans or whole grains. You just don't have the the diversity of microbiome in your gut, and but it can be changed. So that's why we recommend people eating 30 different kinds of plants, and not everyone can do that consistently. And so so that's why we developed Neo greens which has about 35 different ingredients. It also has a pretty biotics has a digestive enzyme. But most importantly, it has, you know, fermented organic fruits and vegetables, so they can digest it easily. But, again, I always stress that this is a supplement, but we want people to eat real food, right? Eat the real fruit, vegetables, whole grains, and beans and nuts and seeds. And then they will begin to repopulate their gut. And so our gut microbiome looks completely different than what it is and you know, the Indians in South America, and then also Africans, right? It's because those countries, they eat a lot more fiber and more, and they have a diversity of microbiomes. And that's why they don't have heart disease, diabetes, all the things are changing now, especially like in Africa, and then obesity is rising heart, you know, over 10 years ago, heart disease was not even a top 10 cause of death. Now, it's number four. Stroke is number five cause of death, and that diabetes is rising, tripled over the past 10 years. And so That's why we're importing all these disease to all these third world, developing countries. But, but if people would go back and then stop eating processed food, if it comes in a box has more than few ingredients, you should put it down. Right? And then shop along the edges of the the grocery store, right? And eat real food. Right? And then and not too much, right. And so that's one of the best way to to live long is you know, decreasing the the calorie intake each day, right?
Ken Brown
Dude, I love everything you're saying. So what's the name of your Netflix special? So I can watch this?
Dr. Won
Oh, well, this this podcast.
Ken Brown
No in all seriousness, your your the name of your New York Times bestselling book that explains all this?
Dr. Won
We'll be working on it real soon.
Ken Brown
So how can anybody connect with you? Oh, and by the way, you're going to give us a code. So anybody that's watching this can try some of your stuff.
Dr. Won
Yes,
Ken Brown
Put in code GCP gut check project GCP
Dr. Won
GCP and then everyone would get 15% off
Ken Brown
Awesome. Well how can anybody find you? How can they connect with you?
Dr. Won
Yeah, so our website is Neo Gen nutrition com. So as N-E-O-G-E-N nutrition.com,
Ken Brown
Awesome. Alright, that was a chock full visit. Let's go ahead and close it down.
Remember, I am a real doctor Eric is a real crna. We do do real medicine. But this show is not intended to diagnose or treat. Please, if you have any issues like rectal bleeding, go to our website, kbmdhealth.com. Download the E book, learn about it, but make sure that you talk to your doctor about it.
Eric Rieger
All right, here we are. It is gut check project, Episode Number 28. I am here with your host, Dr. Ken Brown. What's up Doctor Brown.
Ken Brown
What's going on Eric? Episode 28.
Eric Rieger
Episode 28.
Ken Brown
Lots of energy 2020. We're just wow.
Eric Rieger
We're so close to 30, it's what, six more years. seven more years. We could run for president release the show.
Ken Brown
It's so weird when I'm sitting there doing colonoscopy recalls. And I'm like, come back in 2030...gah! It's weird.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, that's good news for those. Everybody. One unique thing. everybody complains about the prep. So if you if you have to have a colonoscopy and you're not looking forward to the prep, you are not alone. Nobody likes it.
Ken Brown
You know what, there's a video that I have on my website, Kenneth Brown, MD. com. That's more for my my clinical practice, but I've got a video that can actually talk you through how to get through that prep and a few little bio hacks to do that. I've been through a couple preps myself. I've taken them all. So when patients are like, you have no idea I'm like, No, I do know. I do know,
Eric Rieger
I'm fully aware.
Ken Brown
Yeah, you can actually go on the website and see it or you can go to YouTube and see my bare bottom there for the world. Because I mean, the one thing that you and I do do we do...
Eric Rieger
You just said, doo doo.
Ken Brown
Okay I did, yea you're right. I am a gastroeneterologist but the one thing that we do is we live it. I mean, we We will last week I was fasting. I did a five day fast.
Eric Rieger
You did? And you did well.
Ken Brown
I did. I I liked it man, that erexin erexin is a hormone that kicks in that creates energy. I became euphoric again. I was just chatty Cathy run around loving it.
Eric Rieger
It's a wild thing to see play out the erexin. Having done it myself, it's it's when you're not expecting it especially.
Ken Brown
Yeah, totally. And this time I kind of did sort of the fasting mimicking diet where I kept the calories down. It was almost exclusively just water. But I did cheat a little bit, but not cheating. I kept my calories down. I allowed myself to choose some celery once in a while. And if you look at valter Longo's data when he talks about the fasting, mimicking diet, they allow you to have up to, you know, whatever 800 calories and you can still trick the body into fasting. What I really enjoyed was my family's getting more used to it so they weren't like I like I was a little irritable at some times and you know Loyda was cool with it. She understood. She's like, well, you're fasting. And, you know, so it was there and so the kids were kind of making fun of it. But when we sit there and look at it, and you realize that I'm trying to turn on some stem cells and all these other things, I really felt like I'm gonna make this a regular part every three months. I'm gonna try and do a five day fast. Sounds really daunting. But when you look at the data, if you get a chance, there's on amazon prime. If you're an Amazon Prime member, there's a documentary called fasting and they interview what I consider the fasting experts. They've got Jason Fung, they've got Sachin Panda. They've got Valter Longo and they all talk about the different types of fastings. And what you achieve with each one
Eric Rieger
Yeah, no, I totally worth it. Very low cost. It's something you can do and there are tons of benefits. We probably should do a fasting reset episode, just specific to what we can find and then we've had nurses and different technicians that we've worked with who've decided to implement fasting as part of their own healthy regimen. who already seen lower blood pressure and different things like that? So it requires really no true investment. It just requires a little bit of discipline.
Ken Brown
Yeah, and it's a it seems once and I remember what was the conference live it to lead it Conference. I was lecturing and I that that was the first conference where it was a fasting conference. And they purposely did not serve anything
Unknown Speaker
No.
Ken Brown
We went all day.
Eric Rieger
All day.
Ken Brown
Everyone in that conference about 400 people.
Eric Rieger
But you're all in it together.
Ken Brown
Yeah. That that is Dr. Daniel Pompa. And he's the one that really kind of got me thinking about fasting. And he's, if you want to check him out, he's he's awesome. We know we know Angelo, his his. who's the CEO right now? Anyways, we're always doing business with these guys. They're amazing people. Dr. Dan Pompa. Check it out. I did his podcast and we and he is somebody that is extremely knowledgeable about fasting realizing that that turns on cellular health.
Eric Rieger
Definitely. Well, let's do a quick reset so we can get down because we have actually quite a few topics to get to today. So episode number 28. It is the gut check project. I'm Eric Rieger here with your host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. As always, still sponsored by Atrantil, Atrantil chock full of pro anthocyanin, polyphenols, polyphenols, you don't have to have gut distress to benefit from Atrantil do you Dr. Brown?
Ken Brown
You do not. We're learning a lot and I'm going to get into some literature today and get into some data explaining about how this is actually super important because what we're going to talk about is something that is affecting your health, and it is screwing all of us up. So if you are a human living on planet Earth...
Eric Rieger
Most of us.
Ken Brown
You need to listen to the rest of the show. I'm gonna geek out a lot this is gonna be some serious science, but it's super important because we got stuff going on in the world right now that is affecting you and I can tell you how the polyphenols actually help protect you against what I'm going to tell you about that's everywhere.
Eric Rieger
Go to lovemytummy.com/kbmd lovemytummy.com/kbmd to learn more and get your own Atrantil
Ken Brown
Atrantil!
Eric Rieger
And then also go and visit our brand new website it KBmdhealth, KBMdhealth.com. You can get your hands on Atrantil there as well as Dr. Brown's signature package which includes Atrantil as well as CBD. So why in the world would somebody want to combine Atrantil and CBD?
Ken Brown
Well, that is a great question, Mr. Eric. And one of the reasons why we learned through the science was as I was developing Atrantil I started talking to a lot of different scientists and contrary to what people think there's tons of science on CBD cannabidiol tons of science on the endocannabinoid system. As it turns out the polyphenols in Atrantil, actually allow your body to produce and keep around more of your own. endogenous endocannabinoids, meaning you produce your own CBD like molecules called anandaminde and 2-ag. And I know you're going to talk about that a little bit. We'll get to that. Yeah. But basically, you can like it's, it's a exponential growth of your own endocannabinoid system. I started looking into this because when we were first treating people for their gut health, I couldn't believe how many of my patients said, you know what I'm still taking Atrantil my gut feels better, but I just feel better. Everything's better. And then I had to start looking into it. I went, Oh my gosh, the polyphenols, the post biotics the microbiome, and the endocannabinoid system is just one big Venn diagram and they all interact with each other.
Eric Rieger
They definitely do.
Ken Brown
And we're going to talk about that a little bit later also.
Eric Rieger
We that's something once again, you alluded to it earlier, we actually work in a clinic and do procedures. We see people all of the time that take those things combined also with a healthy diet that just simply are feeling and living better, which is great. So kBmdhealth.com. You can find the store, you just pan down the page and the brand new website, which soon will have some repository for CBD information research, we're going to talk about Oh, here soon we will have the repository on rectal bleeding. So if you've ever worried about somebody who may have seen spotting in their underwear suddenly use the bathroom and look down and they saw a little bit of blood, we're going to try to help people stave off the panic and yet find good solutions and answers for them so they can stay healthy.
Ken Brown
Yeah. So if you're wondering why in the world, we just did the right turn towards rectal bleeding as it turns out, that is the most search term that people get super worried about.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, it is. And we get the most questions about rctal bleeding.
Ken Brown
We get the most questions about that. So if you've ever if you have a family member, if you ever seen blood in the toilet, it's scary. And we're going to take that head on and I'm going to tell you how that you should not ignore it. Never ignore it but we put together a really cool ebook that's very informative. I think it's very entertaining, I'm very happy with with Drew Parker helping us out with the graphics on that he's a fantastic digital graphic designer, and I think it's going to help a lot of people and if I can just get a few people in to get checked out so that they don't worry. Much like we see with my colonoscopy video i get i get comments all the time, where people like thank you for doing that video. I went in and I had several large polyps. I never would have done it had it not seen that. That's the same thing. We're here to help everyone. I just want to see people get healthier. Everything that we talked about on the show is some way to augment your life. Sometimes it's gut health. Sometimes it's lighting discussions. Sometimes it's just whatever we think you and I learned something we're like, we're going to share this with the world.
Eric Rieger
Yep, definitely. So be sure Stay tuned. We will definitely make an announcement. If you are not a member of the KBMD community already, just go to KBMDhealth.com pan all the way to the bottom, just give us your name. It'll allow us to have your email and then you'll be looped in as soon as we have the rectal bleeding stuff that you can share with anyone, and anyone coast to coast. If they need help they could use this information, it would help them out.
Ken Brown
Yeah, and we're trying to grow this. We're getting some really good feedback. If you have any questions, if you want us to talk about anything, we have access to experts. That's what I ultimately want to do, if we're going to talk about so today's show, let's talk about the short term. Today's show, we're going to just kind of get caught up on a few things. And I really want to dive deep into this science about things that are hurting you that you can prevent one particular thing in the environment that I know that we can help people with. And then going forward. One of the exciting things that I want to do is I'm going to start bringing in some seriously geeky experts so that we can get to some of the science that's out there, that most people don't even understand that we have a community of PhDs surrounding us of the MD's surrounding us. And they're doing some crazy stuff, but they're not out there promoting it. They're not on Instagram or Facebook and other stuff. You gotta dig deep. You gotta bring them in. And oh my gosh, you'll learn so much. That's what we're gonna do in 2020 this thing is going to be a home for if you have a question, we're going to find the person to answer it.
Eric Rieger
Yeah. And we're already starting to fill out that fill out that that schedule. So this this year should be quite exciting.
Ken Brown
Yeah. And if, if we can't find an expert, and we don't know the answer, Eric is gonna make it up.
Eric Rieger
Sounds so confident. that's a really good selling point. Let's get into it. This last weekend, I left I haven't even told you the story. I left the clinic headed home wanting to go and make the boys basketball games that were up in Wichita Falls. I got about 20 miles from home and suddenly, torrential rain going sideways hail. My phone goes off tornado warning. What in the world and it couldn't see couldn't see anything. And then finally it all passes everything's fine and to my knowledge no one was was hurt. There was some wind damage and a tornado spotted somewhere I didn't see it. But then the next morning Saturday, I wake up snow three and a half inches everywhere
Ken Brown
But it was like 70 degrees when that tornado was happening.
Eric Rieger
No Joke.
Ken Brown
And the very next morning, it snowed.
Eric Rieger
It was 24 degrees. The very next morning beautiful too. I mean, it was snowed very, very hard. And then by the time the afternoon came all melted, pretty much gone. I mean, that's amazing. Living in North Texas, especially. You just experienced a lots of different fluctuations in weather. There's no health story here. But it is kind of a treat sometimes you just kind of see everything.
Ken Brown
It is I watched last night as a family we watched because Rafa Nadal was on 60 minutes. They were interviewing obviously, we always talk about tennis and we'll get into the whole family thing but Rafa was on so the family wanted to watch the 30 minutes and I remember I used to watch 60 minutes with my dad growing up.
Eric Rieger
Yeah me too!
Ken Brown
Yeah. And I actually really enjoyed that. I didn't A lot of it I didn't understand. It was political and stuff like that. But I'd be like, 10 years old watching 60 minutes. So last night we were watching and they were looking at Florence, Italy. The canals. Dude. Up a lot. I mean, come on. We this weird climate change. We got Australia on fire. We got this going on. And they're there they're having hundred year floods, like every month.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, they're not hundred years anymore.
Ken Brown
No.
Eric Rieger
yeah, it's pretty wild.
Ken Brown
It's crazy.
Eric Rieger
I can't remember who it was. It said that they were there before the the water started. And like as they were leaving. And someone told me I thought it was some of you and I knew I've already forgotten. But anyhow, yeah, they were there and the last day of this day was was the first day that the water began to creep in towards the hotel. So that wasn't that long ago. But really interesting.
Ken Brown
It's It's crazy. I just saw an article today, where if we actually tend to have this, this climate change continues in this this pathway. Where now people are pretty much open to it now. Now we realized that okay, things are happening, the level of violence. So some epidemiologists were looking at if with each degree of worldwide raise in temperature, violence goes up and due to a lot of different reasons, and they had all these different reasons as to how that happens. But basically, we can become a more violent society with global warming. It's crazy.
Eric Rieger
Wow.
Ken Brown
I know. It's nuts.
Eric Rieger
Man, I don't even know how to answer that. That's wild
Ken Brown
I don't even want to get into it. Because I just kind of looked at that. And I said, I'm already a little bit scared of where we're headed. I don't need to know that all of a sudden, we're going to become more violent due to it. That's like the last thing that I needed
Eric Rieger
No, no. Yeah.
Ken Brown
I generally chill out when it gets warm. I like to you know, I mean, I like the heat. I sauna all the time so.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, we'll usually see people on the beach and their just laying down. I don't know. I'm not really getting it.
Ken Brown
This article described how we're just going to go around and violence will increase so...
Eric Rieger
Yeah it's unfortunate Well, do you have anything you want to hit on quick before we Oh, I've thought of something else but I'll go ahead and let you go first.
Ken Brown
Well, I was just gonna give a quick update with the family. Because this never happens in my house. We were all here. We did a whole lot of nothing. We...
Eric Rieger
Did y'all all know each other?
Ken Brown
We did.
Eric Rieger
That's good.
Ken Brown
Yeah. So the the kids at the last time that they're at they had one of those big giant Connect fours and so they ended up playing like the boys would play these are like, like the nation's best tennis players at that age and they're all were gathered around to connect for like an old school Connect Four that was like, like five feet tall.
Eric Rieger
That's awesome. I love Connect Four.
Ken Brown
So I ended up playing the kids a lot. In Connect Four on the on the computer. We ate out we found some new ramen places, and we chilled I slept 10 and a half hours last night.
Eric Rieger
That's not bad.
Ken Brown
I loved it. Heck, yeah. That's my weekend. How about you?
Unknown Speaker
All weekend boys had basketballs out is that talked about earlier Saturday night. I'm just getting older friend of mine, his daughter who I remember when she was really young. She got married. Really cool. Yeah. Whole family went and it was, it was a lot of fun. So shout out to Savannah and Rex. Just a great gathering of some folks, these these were really close friends of ours that he was transferred to Japan. And so he'd been there and I hadn't seen him since he been transferred there and his daughter gets married. And my brother was there my brother's close to this family also and it was it was a lot of fun.
Ken Brown
That's awesome.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's really cool.
Ken Brown
You love seeing it maintaining friendships and relationships that far that you're seeing your your friends kids...
Ken Brown
And he just got transferred again. You know where to? Aww poor guy...Hawaii.
Eric Rieger
No awful for him. He and his wife are just hating it.
Ken Brown
Yeah. I finished the book Traction by Gina Whitman.
Eric Rieger
Yes. Nice.
Ken Brown
I took notes. I think I even sent you a copy. My notes are 28 pages.
Eric Rieger
You did. I'm behind you and I can't say that I know what all of your notes mean. But I think that they'll be good cliffs for someone who's gonna read it.
Ken Brown
What I love is every one of these people that in our entrepreneurial group baby bathwater every time I say Traction, they've all read it. They're like, absolutely necessary. So if you're a small business owner, try out the book Traction, the most updated one.
Eric Rieger
Sure, definitely, yeah.
Ken Brown
What were you gonna say?
Eric Rieger
So, I told you that I wanted to talk about 2-ag just briefly, but the reason is, and I, I can't remember exactly what study was, but that's not what's important. What's important is they were breaking down. Why do people smoke cigarettes whenever they become anxious?
Ken Brown
Cigarettes or marijuana?
Eric Rieger
Or was the marijuana?
Ken Brown
Marijuana I think. Yeah, because they're looking at the endocannabinoid system.
Eric Rieger
Marijuana cigarettes is what I meant to say. But that's what that's what they're talking about. But anyway, regardless, they're smoking marijuana, and why would they do that if they become anxious, and it has more to do with the increased production of 2-ag than what they had realized. It's not the only thing. It's just that they noticed that you increase your endogenous 2-ag and of course, if you're just tuning in anandamide and 2-ag are the probably the most prevalent endogenous cannabinoid we have.
Ken Brown
Certainly the most studied. Yeah so we make our own endocannabinoids and they're called anandamide and 2-ag. 2-ag stands for 2-Arachidonoylglycerol acid so 2-ag is easier.
Eric Rieger
Correct. It is that's why that's all that I ever say but I just want to pointed it out to you right before we started you said yes I think I saw the same thing. So what are your thoughts on that?
Ken Brown
Well, I just think it's so interesting because we always meet all these people are like, oh, there's no science on CBD. Oh, there's no whatever, no people we have an endocannabinoid system. We have been neglecting our endocannabinoid system and the articles that I'm going to bring up later probably show why in our endocannabinoid system we're deficient. So what this article looked at, is the fact that people are self treating. Now we know the molecule that goes up, that helps them deal with their anxiety. You know, it isn't like a it isn't like, oh, you're just running away from your problems? No, you're balancing yourself out by doing that.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, another interesting part though I thought about that particular article that I was reading there was referencing the study is that it was almost as if they were talking about 2-ag as just a substance, and then later talked about it as that it is it is an endogenous cannabinoid. But it, they presented it as if it was a newfound compound. And just just because of what we do, and I didn't really take it that way. I was like, well, you're kind of behind the curve. This is
Ken Brown
Isn't that funny?
Eric Rieger
It's been a long time!
Ken Brown
Yeah. Because Yeah, I actually didn't read the article you called and told me about that. I'm like, that's funny, because they're acting like they discovered something. We've been talking 2-ag and anandamide for years now.
Eric Rieger
Right, right. Maybe Maybe it's just the way I interpret it. But that's the way it felt it felt like that they're talking like it's something new that they were trying to show correlation of this, this increase of this mysterious 2-ag and in truth, I felt like it was really just kind of establishing the importance of a healthy endocannabinoid system, which is really what I felt was my takeaways like hey, look, this is just yet more proof on why a healthy ECS is a great balance for somebody who is suffering from anxiety or, or something like that. You want to get that in in you want you want to keep your ECS healthy.
Ken Brown
Yeah so the endocannabinoid system what's interesting is that I'm I'd be curious to see if they did the exact same study with just pure CBD cannabidiol maybe you don't even have to smoke the marijuana cigarette as you say. And you just take CBD and then your body will adapt to that as well. Whenever people say oh, I take CBD and it helps with XYZ Well, one of the things is, I mean, we got a lot going on and I looking back in my life I've always run very anxious. Well, ever since I started doing the KBMD, health CBD, my anxiety 100% has been much more manageable, much more in balanced and I realized that Oh, that's probably one of those things as I'm running around anxious, my 2-ag is down possibly my ananadamide is down. All this is allowing me to do is just get back to my baseline.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, no, I agree. That it's something I didn't, I wasn't able to ascertain. Excuse me. You said I wonder if CBD could do that more than likely so and I was also kind of curious is what the mix was, you know because there's different strains out there for marijuana. And so I didn't I didn't know what they were referencing I highly doubt that it was probably one of those super efficient high level Maui Wowie things that everybody's clamoring for when they go out of a state that doesn't allow it to go and buy I really think that probably really like anything the more natural that something were to exist is probably where they're getting the benefit from but I don't know they didn't really...
Ken Brown
Isn't it so fascinating we just lump everything together. That's like saying hey, Eric, tea is Good for you.
Eric Rieger
What kind of tea?
Ken Brown
Exactly? So are you gonna take Elong which is going to have different black teas in it? Are you going to take chamomile which is going to calm you down.
Eric Rieger
Is lipton light green?
Ken Brown
Exactly.
Eric Rieger
It's not.
Ken Brown
It's you know, are we are you going to put a little packets of peak tea? Which our good friends peak tea, which They have polyphenols in there also and they promote that a lot. So I don't know why we discuss the marijuana plant like that because it could be that varied just like tea leaves. It could be so varied the cannabis plant and when we start lumping things together we just become ignorant to the whole process. If I say that to you will put you to sleep and you do a good solid green tea and you're up for hours. You're like, Well, that didn't work. I'm like no, no, that's not all tea puts you to sleep certain teas. Well, certain THC CBD combinations do certain things.
Eric Rieger
Definitely. Someone said I like apples. They may be a Washington Apple could a granny smith apple. It could be a Fuji. On and on and on. There's just a bunch of different apples.
Ken Brown
Now. Let's be I mean, let's let everybody know. I mean, you did your thesis on apples. I mean, I think it's I think you've been waiting forever. to unleash your knowledge of apples on everybody.
Eric Rieger
I can't wait until we dig into apples. Granny Smith for the win. Or honey crisp, those are great.
Ken Brown
You're just gonna give everybody all riled up? Let's move on politics and apples we don't talk about man.
Eric Rieger
Now we don't.
Ken Brown
You know, last week we talked about cell phones.
Eric Rieger
Yeah.
Ken Brown
We talked about people using cell phones while they're on the toilet.
Eric Rieger
We did we social toilets.
Ken Brown
Social toilets, how social is your toilet? Well, I just saw an article that just came out where a recent study looked at how people that take selfies, so they did a cohort study where they looked at people and they had them self evaluate. So it isn't like a randomized placebo controlled trial, but it is kind of very interesting, because we were talking last week about how people will post Instagram pictures and things like that. This study was really interesting, only in the sense that it makes that it's like, oh, duh. Because we always talk about how social media can actually lead to anxiety and depression. This study looked specifically At instagramers and selfies, and what they did is they interviewed It was 164 female students at a public college in the southeastern United States. And what they did is they surveyed a photo manipulation and selfie tapes. And what they realized is that these women were having this body surveillance issue where they wanted to have the best picture the best selfie that they put up there. And most of the participants reported taking between two to five selfies before publishing the one, many of them or I shouldn't say many, but a large proportion that actually had depression would take up to 20 pictures before posting the one. And there's so many filters that you can do now you can take out blemishes, you can augment certain body parts, you can do different things. And what they showed is those who took more selfies or manipulated he pictures had significantly higher levels of depression and anxiety.
Eric Rieger
It's not that...
Ken Brown
Isn't that interesting?
Eric Rieger
It's interesting. But is it really that surprising?
Ken Brown
Well, that's the thing. It's not that surprising. And when you sit there and look at this, and when people go, oh my gosh, she's so beautiful. Oh, she's got all these likes or whatever. The reality is, you can't run from yourself. There's a certain disingenuous portion of you that knows you kind of manipulated it.
Eric Rieger
Yeah. Without question. And here's a, just a quick side caveat here. Remember, before we had the digital availability of photos, and we just had film, there wasn't the instant gratification of going over and making certain that the picture that was just taken was perfect. You just took it. And then you went to the photo mat at some point. And then it was exciting to go and get the envelope with the pictures and you could thumb through them. And you always wanted it before the girl who might also be in the pictures because she's gonna discard the ones that she doesn't like. Remember that? I mean like you would say, let's go get the pictures. Oh, I'll go with you. And then she grabs them and I can remember, you know, people grabbing the photos like, oh, and then keep that one. What is that? Oh, you don't wanna see that? That's the old way of discarding photos that you didn't want seen. So now you can take them without with it doesn't matter. Does it cost anything take more pictures. So interesting that technologies actually probably lent itself as a as a tool for someone who may have anxiety or depression to kind of make the situation worse.
Ken Brown
I mean, I challenge everybodythat if you're gonna post a selfie,
Eric Rieger
just do it.
Ken Brown
Just do it. Make it real. Do the funny face everything because we spent so much time trying to show this curated life that I have. I want you to believe that my life is this. I mean, one of the fun things about doing this show is we don't edit anything.
Eric Rieger
No!
Ken Brown
It just happens.
Eric Rieger
I just said cigarettes and I meant marijuana. So yeah, no, he did that. But that's not really I promise you, your friends like you. And if you're listening this your friends like you because you're you not because you, you practice or rehearsed a line before you saw them, they just want to hang out with you. I mean, and you should be, you should be confident that that's what people are after.
Ken Brown
So this, this particular study essentially just showed that even though so here's what's happening. You have people that are taking multiple selfies, they're trying to find the perfect one. When they post it, then all they do is wait for that dopamine rush of a like, of a like of a like, and then if this one doesn't get as many likes as the other one, then what do I do? Do I go back and do this? The bottom line is we want to be part of a community. We know that deep down when you want that like it's because you want to connect with somebody. Unfortunately, when we have these social media platforms, it really waters it down so that you feel that you get a little dopamine release but you don't get the serotonin which is your true happiness molecule. Dopamine is your pleasure molecule. So you cannot have both going on serotonin and dopamine, because that's how come the whole rock star phenomenon you keep chasing that dopamine high. So what I want to offer to everybody here is take a selfie, don't put a filter on it, send it to us. Connect with us at KBMDhealth on Instagram or on Facebook with a gut check project.
Eric Rieger
Gut Check Poject on Facebook
Ken Brown
Because I can tell you right now that if you are lonely and you are not connecting with people on a one to one level, it has been proven to be as dangerous as smoking. Smoking the cigarettes. Like you were saying earlier.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, I got things inverted there.
Ken Brown
The cigarettes...So it's I just find it so fascinating that we have this so you just got done telling me a story about how people smoke or they they seek out marijuana and Now we realized that there is an Endocannabinoid that they're trying to compensate with with 2-ag. Well, dude, any type of stress like that any type of thing. So now we know that by doing selfies, and waiting for that dopamine kick, you're creating anxiety and depression, probably related to a depletion of 2-ag as well.
Eric Rieger
Interesting. It really is. I don't, I wonder, I wonder what could be done for somebody to kind of wean themselves of, of hunting for the the digital likes, I really just ignore social media for the most part, certainly on a personal level, I don't find it rewarding. In some instances, it's kind of depressing. I like going to social media when I feel like I want to catch up with someone or that honestly, we need to find a new way to to make sure that our audience or our patients is are getting the right information for Atrantil etc. But I don't, I don't look for it to give me any type of gratification and but I think that I'm maybe the anomaly for someone who's connected like that there's maybe even my kids who don't necessarily maintain their Instagram. I know that they keep up with their friends on it. And they see pictures, and people share them. So how would you wean yourself from that kind of that kind of environmen if you already didn't have the biological systems in place to help you do that?
Ken Brown
Dude, that is a great question. I'm not much of a social media person. So I'm not really down with that. We're gonna find a psychiatrist or a psychologist that specializes in this. There's that great YouTube video, where I told you, you made your kids watch it. I made my kids watch it, where it's a Harvard psychologist discussing the fact that when we give kids phones and they get into social media that that dopamine release...When somebody has a hard time at school, your seventh grader has a hard time at school. They come home And they're upset about something and then you let them have their phone. That is exactly like giving them the keys to the liquor cabinet. You had a tough day. Why don't you go cope with it by having a few vodka sodas or whatever. And we think that's crazy. But we don't think anything of let your kid go to the room, sit on their phone and go into a spiral, because they're not part of the Snapchat group that that they were excluded from because X, Y and Z. It's, it's really from a parenting standpoint, it's really hard to sit there and walk that fine line between I don't want my children to be the weird kids that don't have any social media involvement. But I don't want to allow that giving them the keys to the liquor cabinet, where they're just trying to supplement their dopamine kicks with how many likes they have because there's a lot of science going on with this.
Eric Rieger
Yea and true confession I think that we screwed up its parents that I'm talking about me and my wife. Well, we, we gave the phone the phone breached in probably far too early. I mean, that's just that's just the truth. We've done a good job of monitoring how well I say we're doing a good job. Maybe they'll maybe they'll hear this and they'll laugh.
Ken Brown
I don't think you guys. I don't think he has waited too long when I saw gages...His,you know I went to his one year birthday party and you gave him the iPhone 2. That's not early!
Eric Rieger
He's not quite that young but yeah. But, I mean, looking back, I wish that we had had held off longer than we did. I don't think that we did anybody any favors by doing that. Heck, I wish I had never gotten into a smartphone. It's almost like a weird codependency issue now, like, I want to get to the point where I can just go back to a flip phone and no phone at all. But...
Ken Brown
There's always Yeah,
Eric Rieger
Like most I mean, I don't think that I'm alone. I mean, I know I'm not because we see it every day with the patients just before we take him back to let them go to sleep. They want to they want Want to take that last time before they go to sleep? And before they stow their phone? That's it's very common every single day.
Ken Brown
But we're just keep seeing new and new data like this particular study. Everybody else that looks at those pictures probably goes Oh, she's so pretty, she's got an amazing thing.
Eric Rieger
And the person who's in it probably hates the picture
Ken Brown
And the person who's in it is just critiquing themselves and they're becoming and having more anxiety and depression.
Eric Rieger
Oh, yeah, it's and it's it's, it's unfortunate. It's not fair.
Ken Brown
I had a remember our guest with short path wealth. Tim Tim power. He he posted something where it was like the next time you're having a bad day. Remember this is going on. And it was a picture of 250 Amish men carrying a barn
Eric Rieger
Yeah. Yeah,
Ken Brown
I'm like there's easier ways to move that barn. But that's cool.
Eric Rieger
There are and they're not doing it, but they're probably not nearly susceptible to depression.
Ken Brown
I looked at that and I was like, that's community. That's coming together that's busting your ass that's getting out there. There's a certain amount of okay. Yeah, there's easier ways to do it. But okay.
Eric Rieger
The initial reaction is to laugh. The truth is they're probably pretty happy. You know, isn't that wild, but it's just true.
Ken Brown
Yeah. I thought that was interesting.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, it is. It is interesting. So what else you got?
Ken Brown
Nothin? Um, we can get into a few things. You got water?
Eric Rieger
I'm having a little austin texas Waterloo,
Ken Brown
Ah a little Waterloo. Would you like to sip from it from this cool, straw.
Eric Rieger
I mean, I traditionally don't use...
Ken Brown
No don't do that at all, because that's what we're going to get into right now.
Eric Rieger
That is rude as hell.
Ken Brown
That almost killed you.
Eric Rieger
I did not know that.
Ken Brown
Ah, well, let me tell you what. So we uh, we have the distinct advantage of course we have our little our secret weapon.
Eric Rieger
If you're just listening. He just offered me a straw and threw it across the room just so you know.
Ken Brown
Well, here's why. So You know, we have our, our amazing graduate student that always helps us out. She sent me some incredible articles. Two of them came together. It's super geeky, hang in there with me, please. I'm going to get into what's gonna sound like a lot of crazy words, but this will blow your mind. I cannot believe and she sent the email. She's like, this will blow your mind. I cannot believe that. We have not talked about this yet. And I'm like, okay, two articles recently published that holy cow Hang in there, because it's gonna sound like, well, pretty much you're screwed. But I'm going to give you a solution at the variant.
Eric Rieger
I can't wait.
Ken Brown
All right.
Eric Rieger
Yeah.
Ken Brown
And probably most relevant for you, Mr. Eric, Mr. crna. I'm telling you, you probably need to hear this more than anybody more than anybody, anybody more than anybody. More than anybody more than anybody.
Unknown Speaker
I'm all ears now.
Ken Brown
All right. So, all right now we're getting into some serious science. You know, I love to geek out about this stuff, and hopefully I'll be able to hopefully I interpret it well enough. And hopefully we'll be able to make some sense of this. But what we're going to talk about is a recent review on the toxic effects of Di-2-ethylhexyl phthalate.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, that usually doesn't come up very often.
Ken Brown
Or DEHP. Which From now on I will refer to as DEHP. As inJohnny Depp, but it's DEHP, so before you sit there and go, Oh, I've never you know, this doesn't pertain to me. Oh It really does because as it turns out, DEHP DEHP is the most common member of phthalates. Now, phthalates are mainly used as plasticizers.
Eric Rieger
Here we go.
Ken Brown
There's substances added to Plastic, specifically PVC to increase the flexibility so that death straw that I just tried to offer you filled with DEHP. Okay, what it does is it softens the PVC so that anything is flexible.
Eric Rieger
Okay.
Ken Brown
So you start thinking well, like due to the ubiquity of plastics everywhere. The majority of people are exposed to some level of phthalates. For example, the CDC actually took a large cohort of people, and they looked for the metabolites of ballots, and everyone had them in their urine.
Eric Rieger
I'm sure. I'm sure they do.
Ken Brown
It's almost unavoidable over 2 million tons of this stuff is is produced worldwide. And I don't know why. I don't know how we've not discussed this already. Why this has not been talked about. Do you know anything about this?
Eric Rieger
No, I don't know anything about specifically this particular compound. What I'm really thinking about right now is the abundance or ubiquity of all of the plastics that are are flexible now I mean, I'm just thinking if we're going to panic, your water is certainly in a modern home is is usually channeled by PVC. And that would be I mean, it's...
Ken Brown
well as long as it's PVC until it becomes flexible. You're not getting DEHP.
Eric Rieger
Okay...
Ken Brown
But this is why it's really relevant to you.
Eric Rieger
Oh okay?
Ken Brown
And to me but more to you.
Eric Rieger
All right...
Ken Brown
Guess what? Tt's especially used in medical devices.
Eric Rieger
Oo like endotracheal tubes?
Ken Brown
Oh way more than that endotracheal tubes, IV bags. Yeah, keep going. You're getting it.
Eric Rieger
Goodness gracious IV tubing IV bags, you could the catheters that we start the IV. Man, the anything that would do seldinger technique with is going to utilize that right?
Ken Brown
100%
Eric Rieger
Holy crap.
Ken Brown
Holy crap. It's everywhere in the medical industry.
Eric Rieger
Probably the non latex gloves that we have to substitute for people who have latex allergies.
Ken Brown
All of a sudden you start looking this you're like, whoa, wait a minute...
Eric Rieger
Nasal canulas!
Ken Brown
Nasal canulas. There you go peritoneal catheters, you name it, you know, typical catheters, urinary catheters, anything, because everything we use on humans has to be flexible. It has to be able to be malleable and stuff. So as it turns out, you and I are exposed to tons of this.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, every single day, every single patient
Ken Brown
You more than me,
Eric Rieger
Yea probably so.
Ken Brown
And then we're sitting there doing this with a patient. So.
Eric Rieger
Interesting.
Ken Brown
Yeah. But you know, what, if everybody's listening, and they're just like, well, I don't work in the medical industry. Too bad as it turns out, packaged foods, those bags that are flexible, so it's not a stif little thing. packaged foods, it's in packaged foods, it's in mattresses. It's in cosmetics, personal care products, high concentrations in fatty meats, and even bread.
Eric Rieger
Why is that?
Ken Brown
It's just it gets concentrated in fatty environments. And so when they when they had the plastic bags around the bread, the bread soaks it up. Now we're eating it.
Eric Rieger
Hmm.
Ken Brown
So when we take in this DEHP, the only thing cool about it is that it gets converted into something that I'm going to start using as my stage name from now on, it gets converted into Di-n-octyl phthalate otherwise known as DNOP.
Eric Rieger
DNOP.
Ken Brown
DNOP now, DJ DNOP coming on.
Eric Rieger
Here on the Gut Check Project here's your host DNOP.
Ken Brown
Yeah. So why do you care about DNOP? DNOP coming on! Well, as it turns out, look at what this little molecule actually does to our bodies.
Eric Rieger
Uh oh.
Ken Brown
Uh oh is right. I mean, when I was when I was reading this, I'm just like, What in the world? We are, and this is a worldwide thing. This is not US. This is not race dependent. This is not anything. Now. I'm going to spend little time here and I'm just gonna tell you what, well, I'm scared for you because you're around IV catheters, you do this all the time.
Eric Rieger
A lot yeah.
Ken Brown
Yea. All right, DHEP. It's best known as an endocrine disrupter. What's the name of the mindshare? Jolene?
Eric Rieger
Oh Jolene Brighton?
Ken Brown
Yeah. And then yeah, so anyway, so that yet, I'm sure that she's probably going, duh, we know about this. This is one of those things where you're just like, I guess the bandwidth is only so big, but we can get. I bet you a lot of functional medicine doctors are just like going, Oh, my gosh, we've been talking about this forever. So all right. It's an endocrine disrupter, what that means is it will alter the function of the endocrine system exposure in utero. So this is what's really crazy. If you're pregnant, and you expose your fetus to this, it does tremendous things. One of the things that it's that it does is it actually decreases testosterone production and messes with the estrogen cycle. In fact, they have studies that have shown that exposure in utero leads to lifelong testosterone issues. They have taken adult rats, and they looked at them when they were exposed in utero. And they have shown that their testosterone is markedly lower, just from one exposure in utero, for their whole life.
Eric Rieger
I wonder if it blunts like teste development and that's probably why interesting.
Eric Rieger
Interesting.
Ken Brown
They have all kinds of different reasons why like this, these articles are super sciencey. And they get into the molecular mechanism of it all. And I'll get into a little bit more about this, but I'm going to show you this thing is going to blow your mind because what they did is they they looked at this and they showed persistent low testosterone in adult rats studies. Now rats fed a diet with DEHP also have serious lifelong thyroid issues. So the theory on this is it's an epigenetic phenomenon. So in other words, if you expose a fetus in utero to DEHP, which is everywhere, then it can turn on an epigenetic phenomenon, meaning that there are certain genes that get turned on. And then that becomes the new norm. That's how come they proved that you can sit there and have low testosterone for the rest of your life. That's how come you can end up with thyroid issues when you become older, because that transcription of the genes has been turned on.
Ken Brown
You need to that's the epigenetic phenomena. Epigenetics means that you have genes you're predisposed but then if you have an environmental factor that comes in, then that actually turns that gene on. Well, as it turns out, DHEP does this to people significantly in utero. So they looked at elderly people and it suggests that insulin resistance is actually due to DEHP or DEHP sorry, so insulin resistance so diabetes. Chinese studies have looked at children and their BMI goes way up when they have higher levels of this metabolite in their urine. There's all kinds of studies on this where it's like, oh my gosh, you mean the incidence of diabetes incidence of thyroid, the incidence of hormonal issues is going up? So that's one example, endocrine disrupter. So I thought about this when I read this. I thought about you when I read this.
Eric Rieger
Okay.
Ken Brown
What you think would happen if I give homage to do you remember the article we did about liver failure?
Eric Rieger
I do remember gavaging CBD Yes,
Ken Brown
Go back to our episode 26, go to Episode 26. And we talked about garaging which means that you're going to stick a tube down a mouse and put in copious amounts of...
Eric Rieger
The title was CBD causes liver failure,
Ken Brown
So they gavaged some poor rats. And can you guess what happened to them?
Eric Rieger
With that?
Ken Brown
Yeah, with with basically DEHP. DEHP I'm I'm just going to call it DEHP from now on.
Eric Rieger
Well, I think that if you're going to gavage DEHP and since nothing is sounded like it with the favorable I would imagine they exploded that they turned into robots, but maybe not as bad.
Ken Brown
No, it's worse.
Eric Rieger
Oh, okay.
Ken Brown
It's worse. What it did. Cause testicular atrophy just shrunk their testicles.
Eric Rieger
Wow.
Ken Brown
Basically made them not men. So I was. I mean, you and I've talked about this, but if you ever end up in a situation where your testicles are too big.
Eric Rieger
Oh yeah.
Ken Brown
And I find you chewing on some IV tubing, I'll know why.
Eric Rieger
You'll know why Yeah.
Ken Brown
I'll know why. Because you're trying to control the size.
Eric Rieger
You don't want them too big. It's craziness.
Ken Brown
You just sit there nawing on some IV tubes.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, yeah, it's gonna get some some space in the pants.
Ken Brown
I mean, think about that you they can actually show that it causes such a disruption in the testosterone pathway and the hormonal access pathway that you will actually end up with testicular atrophy. You will not have testicles.
Eric Rieger
What's interesting is I'm curious how, how prevalent is it beyond the those of us in the healthcare environment for people to be exposed to DEHP
Ken Brown
So glad that you asked that. We're going to go through and now we're going to talk about so so far I've kind of focused on the thing that that concern me Sure. testosterone and you know, the
Eric Rieger
Work environment?
Ken Brown
Yeah, work environment. But it also looks like it. It does all kinds of stuff. It'll mess with ovaries. This is really interesting. It seems to increase endometriosis.
Eric Rieger
Oh, wow.
Ken Brown
Yeah.
Eric Rieger
That's terrible.
Ken Brown
So I see a lot of patients that have a ton of pain. And they did a study where they looked at Indian women and that had endometriosis. And they checked their DEHP metabolites significantly higher than their non endometriosis counterparts.
Eric Rieger
Goodness gracious.
Ken Brown
Yeah. And it appears that the reason why that happens is due to our old friend oxidative stress.
Eric Rieger
Wow,
Ken Brown
Just park that one and let's Let's come back to that for a moment.
Eric Rieger
Okay.
Ken Brown
So it's due to oxidative oxidative stress. Oh, this is this is really fun. This is neat. So as it turns out, it's nephrotoxic.
Eric Rieger
None of this sounds good.
Ken Brown
It's Nephrotoxic.
Eric Rieger
That's bad for your kidneys.
Ken Brown
Holy cow. Now they decided to look at dialysis patients. Guess who gets exposed to all Kinds of medical tubing?
Eric Rieger
I mean, they're getting they're getting new tubing every time they go in.
Eric Rieger
Every single time and most dialysis patients are three times a week for four plus hours each visit.
Ken Brown
How did I not hear this? They've looked at this. dialysis patients have some of the highest DEHP levels metabolites.
Ken Brown
Think of that dialysis setup and all of the tubings that go into the cartridge. Remember the cartridge that goes on there with the new membrane, all of the flexible tubing that's on there.
Ken Brown
It's crazy my dad did peritoneal dialysis and I mean my gosh, it's it's tubing that's in there. You're bathing yourself in this And I'm just telling you that it can already mess with your endocrine system, it can already be nephrotoxic. So if you had any chance of recovering your kidneys, then you're just you're stacking the deck against yourself.
Eric Rieger
Okay? And maybe we'll get to solution here in a moment. But at the moment, I'm curious, what are the alternatives outside of what we're doing now, I guess.
Ken Brown
We will get there. Okay. And that's something that we're going to do. We're going to develop the KBMD bubble to be like the bubble boy. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna launch that. We're not gonna do that. We're gonna we're gonna get into all those. All right, but let me if you're not already scared enough. Yeah. And you're just going, Okay, well, you know what? Screw that. I don't really care about my testosterone. I don't care about endometriosis. I'm not on dialysis. Not a big deal. Well, there's one thing that we all have. There's one thing that you and I talk about all the time, the gut brain access. Yeah. So as it turns out, we all have a gut brain. Yep, your brain takes a hit Also.
Eric Rieger
I'm sure.
Ken Brown
Your brain takes a hit also, essentially If it's exposed now I'm going to keep saying the same thing over and over. The younger you are when you're exposed, the more damage it does. And I'm going to get to this because spoiler alert autism. We're going to get to that a little bit. But so your brain takes a hit. Also, it can disrupt the normal fetal brain development, it appears to mess with the hippocampus. So the hippocampus is the area of the brain that's super important for memory and spatial recognition. Very important. And it's, it's for the spatial navigation. So if you can get through the fetal exposure of it, then throughout your life, the more exposure you have to it, so in other words, the more flexible plastics you're exposed to it does something really interesting. It decreases your BDNF.
Eric Rieger
Oh, no.
Ken Brown
Yes. Do you remember what BDNF is?
Eric Rieger
The brain...goodness gracious I don't remember exactly what it stands for but it's exactly but that's exactly what we talked about for brain plasticity.
Ken Brown
Correct.
Eric Rieger
Yeah.
Ken Brown
Its brain derived neurotrophic factor. That's right.
Eric Rieger
Sorry about that.
Ken Brown
No, it's but you and I have we've always talked about this because remember when we heard David Perlmutter give a talk at Helio Fx?
Eric Rieger
That's exactly who I was thinking about.
Ken Brown
He was talking about how coffee fruit had a very small study where it showed it increased BDNF. Well, as it turns out, BDNF can be increased by a lot of different polyphenols. BDNF is the protein in your brain that allows new neural connections.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, all the DEHP I've been exposed to made me forget what BDNF actually stood for.
Ken Brown
And we also believe that one of the reasons why there's a lot of dementia is because we lose our BDNF and we do not grow new cells, right. So as it turns out, BDNF decreases. Oh, it appears that it decreases because of reactive oxygen species developing in the brain leading to oxidative stress.
Eric Rieger
So it sounds to me like what DEHP is if I'm connecting the dots here is going to be catalysts for oxidative stress. And so what we're going to need to do is if we can't eliminate DEHP from our environment, what can we do to mitigate the oxidative stress? Correct?
Ken Brown
Correct. We're going to get to that. All right. Yeah, you're you. You've already you've already made the links. So if you're, if you're still listening, and you want to learn how to do that, what Eric just described is exactly what I want to tell you how we're going to do that. We talked about depression and anxiety. They looked at a study, I mean, I just cannot believe how much data is on this stuff. They looked at a study at pubertal females they did some mouse models and then they correlated it with some human studies as it turns out, the more DEHP DEHP that you're exposed to you have more anxiety and depression.
Eric Rieger
Golly Man, what a it's a large manifest of a bunch of different things. And I don't know that you can escape flexible plastics. We just you just said if PVC were flexible, then maybe would have it actually was reminded, as I thought about that in our last home. When we, when they ran the cold and hot when we built the home, they ran flexible tubing on off of a big spool blue for cold and red for hot because they don't run pipe through foundations the same way anymore. No down here in Texas.
Ken Brown
oh, because it shifts.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, it can shift
Ken Brown
it can bust yeah
Eric Rieger
So many times they run it overhead through, you know, the whatever they call it the attic or whatever. But essentially, that's flexible plastic. And if you're drinking water from home, it's going to I would imagine it's leaching in there, correct? That's how it's happening.
Ken Brown
Well, once again, the CDC looked at people and almost everybody has the metabolites in the urine. It is and it's not it's worldwide. Um, alright, so we'll finish up with I mean, clearly it's already scary, right. So...
Eric Rieger
Yeah, definitely.
Ken Brown
There's also the article goes on to a molecular reasons why how it messes with the liver and it messes with the heart. And, oh, it's linked to autism. The autism and they Kind of briefly talked about it in this article and fortunately, our graduate student knew that I'd be more interested. So she sent me a follow up article recently published even, I mean, these things are all being published like a week ago, like we get them in, like pre transcript. She's amazing. And so she sent me another article that actually talked about this specific thing. But now it's right in our wheelhouse, right in our wheelhouse. So don't be scared. Because now we know that we have this ubiquitous plasticizer that clearly is very toxic. We know it's toxic, we know what's there. And it's used in healthcare all over the place.
Eric Rieger
Everywhere.
Ken Brown
So right now there is a movement currently going to try and get rid of this, we know that it's bad. So over the past 10 years, people have been trying to do this, but since it's everywhere, it's gonna take some time to get out of there. And it's sad because as you know, sometimes medicine is not the fastest to change for some of this stuff, because of contracts and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So we're always trying to find so right now there is this movement to try and use PVC free alternative polymers like polyethylene. So there's hope we're moving away from it. So when you said, Well, what, what can we do, but while we're here, I'm going to try and help you out with this. So I wanted to dig deeper in this because we know that autism is such a hot topic. If you're a parent with a child with the autism spectrum disorder, ASD, then you'll do anything to try and try and help...
Eric Rieger
It's your kid.
Ken Brown
It happens to be a passion of mine, or at least a passion in the sense that my aha moments of seeing some of my autistic patients improve mentally when we went when we fixed our gut. Yeah, I mean, I see it and so I'm very passionate about this. Here's what's really neat, this article. I mean, I just, it's almost like some of these. It's, it's like, I want to go and hug some of these scientists. So the whole article goes into how DEHP predisposes and leads to autism spectrum disorder related to drumroll. The microbiome.
Eric Rieger
Microbiome!
Ken Brown
Yea.
Eric Rieger
Nice!
Ken Brown
So we've we've these articles hit on everything that I love to talk about.
Eric Rieger
So heal or protect yourself and the damage DEHP by taking care of your gut.
Ken Brown
So this is so cool. So studies have shown that exposure in utero, in utero to toxic chemicals can lead to dysbiosis in the fetus. Dysbiosis by definition is basically a change in the microbiome, but not for the better. So you can have too much of one thing not enough of another, you don't have enough diversity. dysbiosis by definition just means it's not right. your microbiome your microbiome is super important. In fact, a recent study showed that children with autism spectrum disorder had higher concentrations of DEHP DEHP, but more importantly, they also looked at fecal samples of these kids with autism, and they had higher levels of a metabolite called P kressel.
Eric Rieger
P Kressel?
Ken Brown
This is how dialed in, we're getting into this. Now. Now we're talking about something that they looked at these autistic kids. And they said you have more of this plasticizer in your body. In addition to that, we're going to look at your microbial content, you've got dysbiosis, and you've got this one metabolite called p kressel. So as it turns out, when you have this dysbiosis, the bacterial composition can either be harmful or beneficial. So these scientists show that the link between bacterial metabolites and neuro developmental disorders are taking place. So they actually then use that knowledge, took it to mice, gave them DEHP, and then analyzed their microbiome. So the whole shift went from, oh, it does all this end organ damage. So I just told you that if you gavage yourself, you're gonna end up with testicular atrophy, I just told you, you're gonna have endocrine disruption, you're going to end up with liver problems, heart problems. Now these guys are looking at it going well, wait a minute, we're exposed to this all the time. Why do some people get it? Why do some people don't?
Eric Rieger
Yeah, they're controlling their inflammatory.
Ken Brown
They're controlling their inflammatory process. Super cool. And so what they did is the most important thing, when they looked at these mice is that the older mice with a more diverse microbiome were completely protected from the effects of DEHP.
Eric Rieger
Interesting.
Ken Brown
The most important factor was that and they showed that there has been studies in autism spectrum disorder, where an overabundance of a Clostridium species was linked to autism. So possibly by not having the age protection where you developed a diverse microbiome your entire life, and not having a full microbial diversity to do the post biotic metabolism, of these in virus mental toxins. That may be why when we expose children to certain things that could turn on the epigenetic phenomenon, or more importantly, these bacteria are now producing this P kressel. Which then shows that they're being exposed to DEHP, which could lead to autism spectrum disorder.
Eric Rieger
Wow.
Ken Brown
It's the first time I've come across an article like that. I'm like, holy cow, how in the world that I just read this article on plasticizers. And she found this incredible article linking the microbiome to this. I mean, I mean, this is, I mean, it's really hard to not geek out on this. We know that the bacteria your microbiome, actually does an incredible job of breaking down toxic metabolites of all kinds of things, including DEHP. Now we call these toxic metabolites and we call these different things. xeno biotics, that's spelled with an x xeno biotics are molecules that get through your body and then your own microbial background, your mind microbiome breaks them down. And if you have an appropriate microbiome, then you can, your body can be exposed to some stuff and handle it, right. But when we start exposing kids in utero, you're stacking the deck against them right off the bat. That's what's super scary. So one of the things is that you can show a dose dependent process where they even took these mice that were that were impervious to some of the effects of it. But at some point, the bacteria got overwhelmed. And then the DEHP cause dysbiosis and then they got sick. So once you took enough of it in, then you couldn't keep up with it. It's really I mean, it's, it's, it's dose dependent. So you can't just say, Oh, I'm gonna let my microbiome do everything. You still have to realize that at some point, you can overwhelm it. So just keep that in mind. So taking together DEHP can be neutralized in a mature diverse microbiome. So if p kressel is produced this has been linked to autism and they showed an overabundance of a particular Clostridium will actually convert and they even went so far as to show we've determined that the amino acid tyrosine will be converted by p Kressall by this Clostridium species. Whoa! Thik stuff. I'm sorry, I threw all this at you, but I just got super geeked out when I was reading it, and I just found it fascinating. So just to summarize, flexible plastic like that straw that I tried to kill you with has a compound in it called DEhp. DEHP gets converted to D NOP! D NOP. And that hurts you. And what we do know is that most of the end organ damage happens because of oxidative stress.
Eric Rieger
Wow. But you can control that.
Ken Brown
We can control that. Yeah. How would you control it?
Eric Rieger
Well, you you hit on a few things. You want to make certain that your microbiome is certainly well diverse.
Ken Brown
One!
Eric Rieger
You could do that with a reasonable diet, you can do that with making certain shift good exercise you could also do that by giving your body the appropriate level of polyphenols that it would help make that happen. Just so happens Atrantil I think, would be a great proanthocyanidin polyphenol to to assist in that. You also want to be able to handle the stress load. So handling the stress load the oxidative stress. Allowing your body to not be overstimulated from stress would be something that you could do to to do that. So polyphenols, by some level, handled that directly but not having your body overstressed to be something that you would want a healthy endocannabinoid system. And that way you could handle stress and oxidative stress wouldn't play into more of a cascading effect that turns into an inflammatory process for your organs and tissues. So starting with those three things diet polyphenol intake exercise and actually four CBD, I think would be a good start.
Ken Brown
Yeah. You're exactly right. So while we're on it, one of the things I'm super proud of, is that
Eric Rieger
Oh, look at that.
Ken Brown
We have the KBMD health subscription box. We do. Let's unbox it. This is this month box just arrived Sarah Jean sent this to me. I actually subscribe to my own box. And now you're gonna fairlight I'm gonna let you just pick the ingredients out here. This is the box. Your health has arrived. We'll start out with our main products here. So basically, the box comes like this. My kids were making fun of me because the writing is too small according to them, and I need to make bullet points but I really want to get my point across has
Eric Rieger
Oh yea there are a lot of words on there.
Ken Brown
There's a lot of words but basically I explain why we have each item in this box. So I'll let you hand me an item. First one, so every single month. So what happens is this particular box is well over $270 and you are almost $300, I think in this particular box, and you end up getting it $147. So we're able to get, oh my gosh, speaking of real quick, there's that 23 year old young woman that got a liver transplant from taking a supplement here in Dallas.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, but they're trying to attribute it to that supplement.
Ken Brown
They're trying to attribute it to a supplement. But the bottom line is if she got it off Amazon, you don't even know if it's actually coming from the actual supplier. Anybody can do that. So so basically the first ingredient here Atrantil my baby, we know that it's good for gut health, but the polyphenols in it have actually multiple articles have shown about how it decreases reactive oxygen species leading to improved oxidative stress and we just got done talking about that. Here's the beauty of it when you pair this with megaspore biotic I love megaspore because that's the one probiotic which has been shown to be able to reach the colon. Well, as it turns out, the megaspore feeds on the polyphenols and they send signals out to increase the diversity. If you want to learn more about that we had Kiren Krishnin, Krishnin?,
Eric Rieger
Krishnin. Yeah,
Ken Brown
Krishnin on the show where he got into geeky detail about that. That's fascinating. So we're going to increase the microbial diversity. We've got some polyphenol intake, those two go together. I'm a huge fan. We just got done talking about tea right? Well, we're gonna put some peak tea in this month and the reason why Peak tea is awesome is it can be hot or cold. But here, they actually show on the back, I love this, they show the caffeine, polyphenol and then any other ingredients. So in this case, this one is Jasmine, where they got some L theanine in there because of the jasmine tea. So the polyphenol content in here so once again, this is synergistic, polyphenol from the tea polyphenol from Atrantil, and I love this omocha turmeric and ginger. So turmeric has been shown to decrease the inflammatory process in almost all diseases
Eric Rieger
Correct.
Ken Brown
What I love about this is the amla and the Ginger that are in it. The amla works as a prebiotic to feed the microbiome so that now your megaspore biotic can proliferate, the prebiotic has been shown to help with insulin resistance. Ultimately d3. I told you I just got my blood checked and I'm low and D, vitamin D. That just tells me it's crazy. I'm out in the sun.
Eric Rieger
Yes.
Ken Brown
I eat a good diet.
Eric Rieger
You should be converting.
Ken Brown
Well, one of the reasons why is look, we're always inside we're never being exposed to ourselves. So most all I would say almost all my patients when I checked their their vitamin D levels, they're low. So vitamin D has been shown to mitigate the inflammatory process. It's been really good in this in the field of IV. I'll come back to this What else we got?
Eric Rieger
Let's see here.
Ken Brown
Ah, the jigsaw Alaskan cod liver oil so cod liver has high levels of omega three and dha. We now know that a recent study just came out as a gastroenterologist that showed that high levels of omega three intake actually improve the chances of polyps developing into cancer. They looked at cancer markers. So from a gastrointestinal health that's one of the reasons why we why I want to encourage that. I like it because the omega threes have been shown to be beneficial in a lot of different reasons. Most it always came back with cardiology, but now we're seeing that it's beneficial in the brain. Speaking of the brain, my Zen blend,
Eric Rieger
Yes, mushrooms,
Ken Brown
Mushrooms. So this has a series of mushrooms and we're going to we're going to end up having some more mushroom experts on the mushrooms here. Actually, if you listen to Joe Rogan's podcast where he had what's his name on?
Eric Rieger
Oh, my goodness, the mycologist
Ken Brown
The mycologist. Super smart dude.
Eric Rieger
Stone Star Wars no not Star Wars we'll find it
Ken Brown
Yeah, I forgotten but he gets into these...
Eric Rieger
Paul Stamets!
Ken Brown
Paul Stamets. That's right. He was talking about why you want to take certain mushrooms that increase BDNF
Eric Rieger
Yes they do.
Ken Brown
These actually increased BDNF which means that you have neuro cognitive healing. I take my Zen blend when I go to bed at night because it calms me down and I realized that those are micronutrients that are there. And then of course we have the KB MD health CBD. If you become a member of the box you get significant discounts on the KB MD health CBD go to KB MD health calm and
Eric Rieger
You can find the box and CBD.
Ken Brown
Yeah. So the reason why I say this last thing, what I love about member box, the company that we've teamed up with with Stephen Izel and Sarah Jean and Danny and everybody. So Sarah Jean said, I really want you to consider putting in some raw coconut oil. Like Like, I'm not much of a chef or I'm not like to cook but that's not really our brand. I mean, my brand is really, I as you can see, I'm going to increase your microbiome diversity. I'm going to decrease your inflammatory process. I'm going to protect you from the evils of flexible plastics. She said well, we got caught contacted by this company called dignity raw coconut oil.
Eric Rieger
Okay.
Ken Brown
I went into their story and I was like Count me in. First of all, you cook a lot with coconut oil, right?
Eric Rieger
We do.
Ken Brown
Yeah. So this is a raw coconut oil. It's their bottling source the way they get it, they don't damage it at all. It's like cold pressed. I don't understand all the issues about it. This is this is what sold me This is so cool. The guys that started this company, they purposely built the plant in one of the poorest Filipino communities. And what they did is and they realized that they could probably make more money doing in other ways. They hire local people. And their main thing is they donate to their vision is that if they can give work to the local people, that it will stop the sex slave trade. They still donate money.
Eric Rieger
It's awesome
Ken Brown
but they put the money where their mouth is?
Eric Rieger
Yeah.
Ken Brown
They built a manufacturing plant in the poorest part in some remote rural Filipino village. And they're giving people jobs.
Eric Rieger
It's very Robo Hendrickson of them
Ken Brown
Very, yes.
Eric Rieger
Non toxic charity, mobilization of liberation for the people that are working there. That's awesome.
Ken Brown
Robo Hendrickson is one of our guests that came on and he was talking about a non toxic charity where basically you can't just throw money at something because it can be more toxic to the people you're trying to help.
Eric Rieger
Absolutely. So they came up with the full bucket health situation this sounds very similar
Ken Brown
Full bucket health so these guys shout out to dignity raw coconut oil company and and you know, thank you for member box for finding people like this because I initially was like, I don't know about that. Then I'll read their story. And I was like, Yeah, absolutely.
Eric Rieger
They're making a difference, not just in your health...
Ken Brown
Sign up for the KBMD health box. You end up helping communities like this.
Eric Rieger
That's awesome.
Ken Brown
And you can go on their marketplace at member box and you can add it to your box. Or you can, you know, do this. I think that's so cool. So it's I'm very, very proud and the reason why I wanted to show this one last, coconut oil has been shown to help with the microbiome coconut oil has medium chain triglycerides, which go up to your brain, and your brain can use it directly as fuel. So there's a lot of beneficial reasons to do this. Mainly, yeah, yeah, I do want to help people and I don't want the sex slave trafficking to go on. And if it's creating jobs and doing that right on!
Eric Rieger
Yeah, man, that's awesome.
Ken Brown
Isn't that cool?
Eric Rieger
Fantastic. Man, what a....
Ken Brown
There's a lot.
Eric Rieger
What a show today!
Ken Brown
I'm sorry. You know what, it's, I always have all this stuff. And I want to talk about we're going to get back to having some cool guests on I think next week, we got something really cool.
Eric Rieger
We do! If you like to eat food, but you want to eat healthy or without triggering something next week is going to be a treat, especially if you're in the North Texas area, but really for anybody.
Ken Brown
Yeah, so next week show is going to be really cool. We're gonna change it up. I have a couple wonderful guests on that are going to talk about well... How to
Eric Rieger
How To Cook without without any of the things that may be triggering like gluten and nut allergies different things like that they these two women have got it down it's a mother and daughter.
Ken Brown
Oh really? Yeah.
Eric Rieger
And you can look them up if you want to before they get here unrefined bakery.
Ken Brown
They don't grind up any flexible plastics and put it in their food do they?
Eric Rieger
Not on most. No, I don't believe they do.
Ken Brown
So they have the testicular hypertrophy muffin.
Eric Rieger
To control your man. Have him have some of this muffin. No i don't think that's what they do. In fact I think that's, that's not at all what they do, but they do make some incredible desserts, foods, breads, etc. for people who don't traditionally get an opportunity to eat foods and breads and and foods, but muffins, and treats and snacks. It's really cool.
Ken Brown
So I want to encourage everyone please, we have a we have a great time finding a lot of literature. I get feedback all the time. From we're getting some feedback from some really like remote places now it's really cool. Yeah, hopefully we'll get a Filipino following now that we've got I want to find some people that are actually working in that working in that manufacturing plant. But please share, tell you can look at us on all the typical platforms.
Eric Rieger
Yes you can but I will encourage everyone now that we have the new website up you can go to KBMDhealth.com or to get directly to the page that features the podcast like and share us from gutcheckproject.com. It will take you directly to the show all of our shows, you'll see see all episodes underneath the picture of of Ken and I and under each episode, I'm trying to make certain that that they add show notes and links to everything that we're talking about that's pertinent so from today's show, for instance, will feature the box probably features something specific about dignity coconut oil, as well as how to protect yourself from inflammatory processes from DEHP Atrantil links etc. You'll be able to go straight to the show notes and find things from our guests how to find Connect. So gut check project.com like and share, like and share like and share. And wow that was...
Ken Brown
What can you can you give a quick summary of this podcast we covered a lot I feel like I did all I did way too much talking. I'm sick of hearing myself.
Eric Rieger
A quick summary of this podcast. Let's see here. So smoking marijuana cigarettes may actually increase 2-A G. The weather in North Texas changes pretty quickly. The next thing is is flexible plastics may be causing you inflammatory processes, especially if you're a kid. So the best thing that you can do for yourself since they're everywhere, is make certain that your body is armed with the appropriate foods, exercise and polyphenols to protect yourself from the inflammatory processes from going out of control. Otherwise, you can get really sick and outside of that if you don't like hard decisions on trying to find products that will supplement your diet to keep you healthy KBMD Box.
Ken Brown
Third party tested. Third party tested vetted. We get the science behind it that's what's really cool.
Eric Rieger
Yeah if you wish you had a doctor walking with you to help you pick out supplements and that didn't waste your money. And that actually worked. And they were from reputable sources. kbMdbox.com kB Md box.com. You can also find the link at KBMdhealth.com. And you'll see the iconic box down at the bottom right.
Ken Brown
That's awesome. And we always want to thank our live in studio audience so everybody! Thank you from coming.
Eric Rieger
If you want to know why there's a lot of a rumble and why. Why Brown just sound like is far away from the microphone. All he did was manipulate his microphone so he could pick up his computer speaker for his audience.
Ken Brown
I've been wanting to Do that for so long. Press that button.
Eric Rieger
All be it funny. It's the worst reason ever.
Ken Brown
Do you like how I waved to the studio audience?
Eric Rieger
I do. There's no one here.
Ken Brown
Oh my gosh, I forgot to say this. But Paul, make sure that you put this in in the show notes in the beginning. Remember, I am a real doctor Eric is a real crna. We do do real medicine. But this show is not intended to diagnose or treat. Please, if you have any issues like rectal bleeding, go to our website, KBMd health.com. Download the E book, learn about it, but make sure that you talk to your doctor about it. And also if you have that weird rash. Well, this is not what the shows about this shows for education and fun. And sometimes it's fun. Sometimes it's educational. Sometimes it's just me rambling, which is what this one was.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, we just want to bring attention to things that you can investigate for yourself but not meant to treat or diagnose certainly go and seek out professional help if you have an ailment. So that's Episode 28
Ken Brown
Episode 28 in the books, thank you so much, and when Once again, please hit us up. Tell us what you want to hear about. We will find the experts on it.
Eric Rieger
Yes. and tune in next week because we have a great show next week with some people who actually know a lot about what it is that they do.
Ken Brown
Right on .
Eric Rieger
All right on episode 28. Thank you gachet project like and she'll talk to you soon.
Ken Brown
Bye.
Eric Rieger
All right, you have now joined the gut check project. This is episode number 27. I'm here with your host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. I'm Eric Rieger. It's 2020.
Ken Brown
We're in a new decade. This is unbelievable.
Eric Rieger
So that's interesting. Some people will say that the decade does not begin on years that end in zero, because when the calendar started, there was no Year Zero. It was let's have a year this is year one. So lots of people end up saying technically a decade doesn't start to the ones but nobody talks that way. When you say the roaring 20s it started 1920. So I'm on board with you. I think this is the beginning of a new decade.
Ken Brown
How did you...I mean, how could you say when you were born when it was BC, were you like I'm minus 20?
Eric Rieger
Yep, that's pretty much what they did.
Ken Brown
Is that what they did? Yeah, they'd just walk up...
Eric Rieger
In 745 years they will begin to count. I think that's how it went down.
Ken Brown
Is that how the whole the whole calendar went down? Like All right, everybody, we're starting over.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, y'all are gonna love this. There's gonna be a Messiah. We're gonna start counting it's gonna be great.
Ken Brown
I love it.
Eric Rieger
Well, today's episode of course is brought to you by Atrantil developed by the guy right across the table from me Atrantil is a daily source of polyphenols to address issues of symptoms related to IBS, as well as definitely bloating.
Ken Brown
You know what I'm really getting into also is all the new information coming out with polyphenols in sports performance. Talking about how polyphenols actually can improve blood flow by increasing nitric oxide. I can't wait till we can start working with some endurance athletes and start testing them to see if we can get some new prs and some of these people.
Eric Rieger
Hundred percent!
Ken Brown
If you're running some marathons. If you think about it, if you're an endurance athlete, like a triathlete or something, you know, I got my good friend Ron Tribendis who has his own podcast also tremendous chiropractor and he's like high level performance and all that he actually sells Atrantil. But we were talking about that, that, you know, he gets so many of his clients that he trains and that are his patients that when they start training for these triathlons and marathons and they're taking in all that goo and the high fructose stuff to try and or not even just the fructose based sugars to try and gain fuel from it. That's when they start having gi distress. I feel like we can help all those people.
Eric Rieger
Definitely it's interesting that you bring that up right off the bat because at CPSDA and the reason why this is important is Atrantil is chock full of polyphenols. That's where the magic is. So that's why discussing Atrantil leads us to talking about athletes and when I was at CPSDA about a year and a half ago. Joe Votel
Ken Brown
The PhD
Eric Rieger
The PhD from Exeter University over in Europe. She came over and they've done extensive research on multiple different research opportunities where they've shown that daily polyphenol intake and athletes will decrease recovery time, increase blood flow, just as you pointed out, increase nitric oxide production. These are things that serious athletes love to know. And it's, it's natural. Even more importantly, though, you can always say, get rest, or eat polyphenols or have some fruits. But ultimately, when someone wants to do it, it's how much? And she was able to show that pre no, I'm sorry, proanthocyanidins, at 1000 milligrams per day was an optimal dose for active athletes. So anyhow...
Ken Brown
If you want it to get that, I mean, what would I have to eat? If it was like cherries or something.
Eric Rieger
If you wanted to have that. This was her example. It's awesome. She showed that you would probably have to have four to five bowls of cherries or blueberries. Good fruits. Unfortunately, there's a lot of high fructose or not high fructose. There's a lot of fructose that's in there. And serious athletes oftentimes don't want to over load their daily sugar even if it happens to occur naturally now-separate debate. But she she quickly pointed out that if you could consume proanthocyanidins that did not have high fructose content, you'd have something magical and just so happens that Atrantil four capsules roughly equals 1000 milligrams of proanthocyanidins...
Ken Brown
I've actually had a lot of patients tell me that they do better. Oh, one thing we're going to start doing in 2020, and we're going to go back. Let's just do a little disclaimer here. Although I am a real doctor.
Eric Rieger
Yeah.
Ken Brown
Do not take this as medical advice for that weird rash or that unusual, extra toe growing out or something. Go see a doctor, don't listen to us. We're here to have fun, possibly educate a little bit but more importantly, help everyone to discover some new things because that's what we want to do. We want to find new things in the literature, new things that are coming out and make sure that everyone can biohack in the way that we have tested on ourselves. So
Eric Rieger
Definitely. So find Atrantil at antrantil.com or lovemytummy.com is much easier to remember, forward slash kbmd Atrantil lovemytummy.com/kbmd. Not just for bloating, it's also for athletes. It's really for everyone.
Ken Brown
It really is. And so that's how I mean it's...this is fun. In fact, this brings me up to something so I just shot a video for this. We have a new website that has launched
Eric Rieger
finally,
Ken Brown
Finally! So go to kbmdhealth.com. Check it out, give us your feedback. There's going to be a video there where I kind of get into the things that I like the things that I like our biohacking CBD, I'll try and deal with polyphenols and making sure that you can have access to some of the best vetted supplements meaning a lot of the stuff that people are buying may not actually benefit you or may have something dangerous in it. In fact, there was um, I need to find out what she had. But there was a news article here in the DFW Metroplex, a very unfortunate 23 year old, who was taking some woman's multi weight management. They didn't say the name of the product or what was in it.
Eric Rieger
Sure.
Ken Brown
But unfortunately, they believe that that actually caused daily drug induced liver injury. So that's one of the things when I've had patients come in, and you find out that they're on a supplement, but that supplement is not third party tested or that supplement is coming in from someplace else. Anything can happen to anybody. I understand that you can have a bad reaction, you can have an allergic reaction to something but make sure that you're at least if you're going out trying some different things to make sure it's third party tested, which is why we have the kbmd health subscription box.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, we, definitely you can find that health subscription box prominently located on the right side of the new kbmchealth.com.
Ken Brown
I think it looks so nice. You did an excellent job.
Eric Rieger
I did not do that. That was was the help of Stephen and people that understand how to build websites. So our bad website that we had before was me. And we moved over to a real one.
Ken Brown
Which is an awesome website for CRNA.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, that's exactly right. So if you want me to build a home, and you want to say I got a home built by a CRNA, and it may or may not have a door that closes, you should totally ask me to do it. But otherwise, no, Stephen and Drew and Mark did a great job I think putting together a pretty cool, easy to understand website. And just so that everyone knows there are new pieces going to be added as time goes along. We have a large repository of CBD information that's going to be added to the website. We've got ways for people to access videos where they can get educated on on things that may not have anything to do specifically with polyphenols or CBD we there's a lot of things they're going to add to the site. They'll be easy to find.
Ken Brown
This is so exciting because we've done so much background work of trying to set the store up trying to do different things now we can start to really interact with everybody. We want this to be a community. One of the things that can lead to disease is the feeling of loneliness. So if you're feeling lonely might as well join this community, hit us up, say, Hey, I read this article on this, can you look into it? And that's kind of what I want this podcast to grow into where we can sort of play. We can vet stuff, we can get new stuff out there, we can get people communicating. Look at all our patients that show up and they're like hey I watch your show. I would like to come on and talk about this like, yeah,
Eric Rieger
Yeah, happens happens more often than I would have expected, especially as early as we've been doing this.
Ken Brown
Oh, you wanna know. Another way we're going to get a lot more people here...our friend Dan Clark. brain.fm. Yes. So we we have this we have been fortunate enough to meet this incredibly intelligent CEO named Dan Clark, who was named I think 30 under 30 in Forbes. Yeah, well, they have a app that when you put headphones on, does something called neural phase locking neural phase locking, which some people confuse it with binaural beats like I did, but what it does It stimulates various areas of your brain so you can calm down or wake up. I actually when I actually use it to go to sleep, and I use it to wake up, and that's when you and I were talking, and we're going to start out seeing if this can help calm down my patients before colonoscopy, and help them wake up quicker. So if you're listening to this, and you need a colonoscopy, you can be part of something really cool. No, it's it's just headphones and music. So it's not dangerous, it's going to be really cool. And we're going to get some really neat data out of this. When we tried it on our first eight patients they all loved it.
Eric Rieger
They all loved it. There was it wasn't just an absence of complaints. It was really just robust compliments and thanks so much for letting me be a part of it.
Ken Brown
Can you imagine if you're sitting in the waiting room of a of a dentist's office or something that you really don't like or your gynecologist or whatever it is, I'm using doctors but this could be the IRS or whatever, putting some headphones on and taking yourself down and calming from the brain which will then tell the cortisol to decrease and everything will calm down. It will be all good. That's it. That's a whole new level of science, which I'm super excited about. Because there's really no side effects. It's music.
Eric Rieger
It's just music. And it's actually really, really cool.
Ken Brown
Based on science. Music based on science with functional MRIs and everything. They've got some studies where they showed a the relaxation scores of people that have listened to the most "relaxing" music are having the most relaxing and then the control was Coldplay, which I thought was really funny in their study, and then they had them listen to brain.fm and unequivocably all the people that had brain FM felt much more relaxed. So there is some really cool science to this. Now we're just going to add some objective data. And maybe we'll be able to get some patients that absolutely love it. This is this could be the future of what we're going to do. You use less medicines. My patients are happier and it's a win win win for everybody.
Eric Rieger
Anything that we can do to make the experience of going in for an elective procedure or any really any stressful situation, but if we know that we can help people feel better, why not try it and it's just sound so we know we're not causing pain or harm.
Ken Brown
So I'm going to like I'm trying to get my kids with this where if they are getting ready to like so my kids play tennis, which is where the family is right now they're in Florida winter nationals. In fact, Lucas i think is in the throes of a match right now he's still in it. They've been there since last Thursday.
Eric Rieger
Right on.
Ken Brown
Yeah, they've been there for four weeks. So the you know, you go home when you lose and he did he's out of the main draw. He'd lost in a really tough third set battle but mentally came back and has won three more matches which is which I think is the coolest thing when you lose to not just let your give up right there but and so he uses he actually uses my account at brainfm. Don't tell Dan that we're sharing an account. He uses my account for whenever he studies and so he likes it so yeah, I think that that's it I think it's super exciting. So what's going on? Oh, how were your holidays?
Eric Rieger
Holidays were great. We had we had family in town for for Christmas to come visit we cooked steaks we chilled out we I mean we saw everyone we saw everyone on my side of the family, on Marie's side of the family it was it was a lot of fun. The boys the last obviously just like Lucas and Carla, they had basketball tournaments. Mac had a great tournament for the junior varsity. They really played up for the JV. They played bigger schools, they ended up closing out their last game they won by 30.
Ken Brown
Won by 30?
Eric Rieger
Yea. So they were really happy with being able to close up the tournament with that. Mac and his whole team. I mean, they're really preparing to next year they'll all be on varsity. So he he and his brother get along great. He just wants to be able to contribute just like his older brother did, who actually competed in one of the nation's longest I think the top four or top five longest running high school basketball tournaments and that's the Whataburger tournament and Gage's Decatur Eagles, second year in a row, won the whole tournament. And Gage was named all tournament.
Ken Brown
Woo, woo. Go Gage!
Eric Rieger
Yea. He played. He played really well. Super proud of both of the boys. It's I mean, it's just It's fortunate to have to have these opportunities with your kids. I wasn't an athlete like that. So it's just so much fun to watch them work so hard and achieve and they do it as a team for them.
Ken Brown
You're not concerned that gage is going to try to be like Al Bundy sitting on a couch talking about his 2019 glory year of basketball when he's like 45.
Eric Rieger
We talked about it every night. To make sure he doesn't do it.
Ken Brown
Don't be Al Bundy.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, we use the brain FM anti Bundy music track.
Ken Brown
Yea, we have to make sure that he continues to succeed in other areas. He committed to Texas Tech so that's a good start.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, he's gonna play there...intramural, but he'll play there.
Ken Brown
There we go.
Eric Rieger
There we go. Well, let's let's get into it. So
Ken Brown
Yeah, well, I got one other thing that's super cool over the holidays. Oh, by the way, I'm one and a half days into my five day fast. I'm starting the year with a fast.
Eric Rieger
Nice. Good for you.
Ken Brown
Yeah, so we're that's where I'm at to get my get my water tea broth kind of thing. Just going to try and do that to liquid fast. So we'll see how that goes. Speaking of fasting, got a really cool contact. Do you remember Melanie Avalon podcasts intermittent fasting podcast
Eric Rieger
I definitely remember Melanie
Ken Brown
Super cool person very smart you know crushes it on the on the whole podcast scene. Well, she contacted me and she has a new app out. Oh no. Yeah, really cool an app called the food sense guide. I need a favor from you.
Eric Rieger
Okay.
Ken Brown
It's a searchable comprehensive guide to over 300 plus foods for general levels of different things like the amines, fodmaps glutamates, gluten, histamine, lectins, oxalates, salicylates, sulfites, and so on. If you don't know what any of those are, it's because you're very fortunate, and you don't have to worry about what you eat. But that world is my patients. They come in and we talk about diet. So now this is gonna be really cool. I'll be able to help Melanie out, put my patients on it. Unfortunately, it's not on Android yet. And I got a Google Pixel. So I'm going to have you download it and then we're going to play with it and then we're going to post a review for her. And if anybody else wants to download that, it's the what did I say it was it's the food sense guide on the iTunes it's for iPhones only now. So take a look at it if you've got food sensitivity or anything like that, or your doctor said, try fodmap or you just want to try some different things. It's a great start.
Eric Rieger
Food sense guide. Sense?
Ken Brown
Yeah, food sense guide.
Eric Rieger
Food sense guide. Yeah, download that from Melanie. She runs a great podcast, actually two different podcasts. And she does an awesome job of keeping her audience up to date with the latest information. So I'd feel completely comfortable in going ahead and recommending it as we try it.
Ken Brown
Absolutely. And we'll get to we'll eventually get a code for everybody that maybe we can get a code so that they can get a little discount or something. Who knows. Let's start the new year out. I want to ask you a question.
Eric Rieger
I'm ready.
Ken Brown
I want you to be honest.
Eric Rieger
Okay.
Ken Brown
Do you use your phone when you're in the bathroom? Much like our mascot here? Gutsy. Do you use your phone like him when you're in the bathroom?
Eric Rieger
As much as I want to say no, that's not true.
Ken Brown
Well, as it turns out, you are not alone.
Eric Rieger
I didn't think it was.
Ken Brown
Different studies have shown that up to 75% of Americans do this. So, next time you're scrolling through on your Instagram, and you see that sexy Instagram model picture, there's a good chance she's sitting on the toilet while doing that, while she's posting. Think about that for a moment.
Eric Rieger
That's where the work that's where the work is done.
Ken Brown
That's where that's what they're saying is that many a lot of the Instagram posts and everything are probably done when people have a little alone time when they've they've taken their photo shoots and then it's time to upload it.
Eric Rieger
It's funny, they say probably with a with the GPS stuff that you give up just by using those apps, they probably know that that's where you
Ken Brown
Well, they certainly know for sure. On 20% of the people to do it because 20% of Americans have admitted to dropping their phone in the toilet.
Eric Rieger
Oh, and I've not done that.
Ken Brown
20%
Eric Rieger
Yeah, I'm in the other four out of five. I have not done that. And I don't know that I would reach in to grab it. That just may be it.
Ken Brown
I think that's why I think that's why the new iPhone is bragging so much about being waterproof. That's what that's what the commercial should be. It should be an Instagram model that drops it in the toilet. She's like, eh, grabs it and pulls it up, keeps going.
Eric Rieger
Now I don't think it should be that they may make one like that.
Ken Brown
Now, wait a minute. As a gastroenterologist, I encourage everyone, to when you sit on the toilet, I want you to snap, tweet, Facebook, Insta, play Words with Friends or whatever it is that people do buy Atrantil online through, you know, through the website, and you can do any of that. Because when you sit on that toilet for a long time, you're going to create hemorrhoids. I love hemorrhoids. I love treating hemorrhoids. So I encourage everyone to go ahead and do that. But almost everyone, almost, I'm not gonna encourage my employees to do it.
Eric Rieger
No No you probably wouldn't, because that would run up a bill on the opposite end trying to care for it.
Unknown Speaker
Well, it would also run up the It would also decrease the productivity.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, probably so
Ken Brown
And leave it up to the Brits to figure this part out.
Eric Rieger
What's that?
Ken Brown
Well, this is all leading up to a study, I was actually going somewhere with all this. I know you're looking at me like why are you focusing on the phone in the toilet so much?
Eric Rieger
Well, I mean, I was but I was I was genuinely interested.
Ken Brown
So let me ask you, in the UK, it's estimated that the lack of productivity due to extended toilet breaks, is costing the United Kingdom $7.5 billion dollars a year.
Eric Rieger
7.5 billion?
Ken Brown
Yeah. So you're the chancellor, Emperor of England. Is that Emperor now? or What is it? It's a...
Eric Rieger
Guardian?
Ken Brown
Guardian?
Eric Rieger
Yeah.
Ken Brown
Okay.
Eric Rieger
Something like that.
Ken Brown
That's beacuase I'm wearing my guardians of the galaxy shirt.
Eric Rieger
That's exactly where I got that from.
Ken Brown
All right. I want to know, Eric Rieger. What would you do if you were president of united states and you say, we can We can improve our our overall bottom line by getting people to get off their phones while they're in the bathroom.
Eric Rieger
What would I do about it? Oh my goodness I if I honestly I just don't even have a smart alec answer. Scramblers? Not really sure.
Ken Brown
Well, I was thinking about that also cuz I'm like, where's where's this article going? Where they're talking about people $7.5 billion being lost like every time you know, you go to the bathroom, you just go to Cha-Ching.
Ken Brown
Seems like a lot seems like overkill and it seems like thers... So as it turns out, there was a who is now CEO of a company, a British designer was waiting to use the restroom at a truck stop while waiting for stalls to open up. And what he noticed is that all these guys were coming out holding their phones, and he was getting super annoyed because he had to use the bathroom and everything was taking a long time. Yeah. So it occurred to him that this is probably going on at work. So he designed a toilet that slants eight to 13 degrees down.
Eric Rieger
It seems like a lot though.
Eric Rieger
You know what I saw this.
Ken Brown
You did?
Eric Rieger
I saw the design, it looks like it was very uncomfortable to sit there for a very long time. is that right?
Ken Brown
They purposely built a toilet so it's uncomfortable to sit in. Actually, what it does is and you can choose so if you're like, if you're a nice boss, you just do eight degrees, you do 13 degrees and what it does, it makes you kind of stand up so your quads burn. So you have all these now you can start seeing all kinds of Instagram models with giant quads and just big legs. It's gonna move from the Kardashian bottom to the to the Insta thighs that look like a good leg press. 1000 pounds, but so it's making them uncomfortable. What's your thoughts on that?
Eric Rieger
Man, I don't know. It It's interesting, I don't think that you can. I think what we, where we are right now is we've just identified a in terms of the employer. A time waste is what they feel like. But I feel like that people have been finding ways to waste time since the dawn of time. I don't know that you're really gonna curve anything. In fact, I would say that there are probably some who's still trying to remain productive by answering email. I mean, I don't know what they're calculating. There's 7.5 billion on that of those who just can answer text or email. I'm just throwing that out there.
Ken Brown
Oh, yeah. That wasn't taking into account maybe it's more productive for some people.
Eric Rieger
Yeah. I mean, it probably really could be better.
Ken Brown
But you're saying like since the dawn of time, what were those people that would send Telegraph's Do you think the guy would like take it into the bathroom and go?
Eric Rieger
Yeah, you got an extension here. Little extension cord is one in there.
Ken Brown
And it's been going on since the dawn of time.
Eric Rieger
Beedle E Beat where ever he was to do that. Is that the correct word for it? From Western Union?
Ken Brown
Yeah, exactly. It's the Western Union person I'm thinking. That's exactly
Eric Rieger
I don't know. I mean, a slanted toilet though I mean, for those who don't waste time in the in the bathroom, it seems like a disservice to them to have to be on an uncomfortable toilet.
Ken Brown
So it got me thinking a little bit. So I just found the article kind of funny. And I thought it'd be interesting to talk about here. But now let's science it up a little bit. So the reality is, what they're doing is they're actually, so there is something called the optimal angle of defication
Eric Rieger
Wouldn't that be undoing that?
Ken Brown
It's undoing it. So it's going to be counterproductive. Yes, they might be off their phones, but they're not going to have an effective bowel movement.
Eric Rieger
Sounds to me like they won't evacuate as well.
Ken Brown
And it'll take them longer to evacuate leading...
Ken Brown
Multiple trips, leading to more Hemorrhoids and things like that. So the whole concept of Oh, I'm just going to make this uncomfortable, is going to completely backfire. In fact, in 2011, I did a whole blog on this. If you go to Kenneth Brown, MD. com, I did a blog on the angle of defication. And what they did is some Japanese scientists, they took people and they well, it's unfortunate, but they took medical students, and they actually put radio paste in their bottoms, so they can watch them deficate. And then they had them do this multiple times with various angles. So they did it was like an engineering type thing. You can see the perfect angle. And the reason why we need a certain angle is that we have muscles down there, one of them called the puborectalis muscle. And when it doesn't completely relax, well, you can end up having a very ineffective bowel movement. So when I talk to my patients, I say, do you get the urge to go to the restroom? They say yes. When you go to the restroom, do you feel that you are fully evacuated? They're like, No, I have to strain a lot. Are they constipated? And by constipation meaning are you just not getting the urge but when you have the urge, you can't get it out. In my mind. That's not constipation. That is an evacuation issue that is pelvic floor. Dis synergy is what the actual medical term is. Wow. So there's little tricks to fix that. And it's the exact opposite of what this toilet is. The first trick is you actually get your knees above your hips. That's how squatty pottys making a living they're getting people to do that.
Eric Rieger
Multiple trips.
Eric Rieger
That'swhat they do.
Ken Brown
And then if you lean slightly forward, what they figured out is you get that muscle to kind of come out of the way. One of the things is, I started really thinking about this the reason why I wrote the blogs because one of my patients said, Hey, whenever I go camping, I don't ever feel constipated. Why is that? I'm like, do you dig a hole in the ground? She goes, Yeah, yeah, cuz like, Okay, she goes camping a lot, she's like, and you dig a hole in the ground, you're squatting so we're one of the few countries well now England for sure. But we're one of the few countries Well, I just take it back. Western countries use toilets, but most of the countries that don't use aboveground toilets do not have hemorrhoid or constipation issues.
Eric Rieger
No they're in optimal defication pose.
Ken Brown
They're, an optimal defication pose so I just thought it was kind of interesting that somebody would go around and and purposely build a toilet. And I started thinking of all my patients that have like serious issues, Chrone's, colitis, irritable bowel, bacterial. It's it was described by a couple people on Twitter as a dystonia, dystonia era in the bathroom.
Eric Rieger
Yeah. I mean, somebody's always gonna go a little too far. Yeah. I mean, so what were alternatives be, I've noticed that there are certain bathrooms that maybe only have like one or two stalls, and oftentimes because they aren't frequented, they'll have the motion detector. And I've heard stories that people saying that they they knew they were in there too long because the motion detector timed out and they were in there in the light went off. You know, so, I mean, I think there are other there are other ways that won't actually hamper your natural ability to use the bathroom, but maybe we'll get your attention that you've been there too long, whether it be lights off, you know, clicking off or maybe a bell with a lock on the stall doors been engaged for too long or who knows?
Ken Brown
You know what? Something that might work. Also, did you see that YouTube video of Mark Rober with the exploding glitter bomb for the porch porch pirates?
Eric Rieger
Oh yeah I did it the the parcel box it just basically shredded and sprayed
Ken Brown
And sprays glitter.
Eric Rieger
Yeah.
Ken Brown
For people that that actually steal it. It's I mean, he's gotten tons of notoriety. Yes, he's been on Jimmy Kimmel a bunch of other things, just little mini little things and have a timer that some people walked out they were glitter on their face. Ahh a little too long huh? It's the Mark Rober bathroom bathroom optimizer?
Eric Rieger
Yeah. I mean, it seems. Again, it seems aggressive for somebody who may actually have a legitimate issue but I mean, you probably could be a little bit more inventive than creating a disadvantage for everyone that needs to use your your toilet.
Ken Brown
Yeah, I thought that was kind of an interesting way to start a year. You show up to your job. And you're like has anyone seen those toilets yet?
Eric Rieger
Well, when I saw that, I mean, I almost think it was a YouTube TV news story or something like that. Because when regardless, it doesn't matter. I saw over the holiday, but I thought it was a joke. So I didn't think it was real. I saw better I saw them showing the plane and then the the angle down of the toilet drawn there but I had no idea that was a serious solution proposed by somebody I thought it was other than being silly. Yeah, so it is pretty silly anyway
Ken Brown
Lead line them so you can't get Wi Fi or phone signal.
Eric Rieger
Yeah I mean that that would probably be the quickest expediter and would filter the right people out right?
Ken Brown
Oh, they'll die from lead poisoning eventually. That will filter them.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, but I mean you would definitely filter the right people out because you wouldn't have you or at least have a scrambler because you could the people who are legitimately need to be in it for a long time are going to be there no matter what. And the people that were wanting to play on the phone couldn't access their phone.
Ken Brown
Yeah, but in in all seriousness, it is. It is a really big deal in my field hemorrhoids rectal bleeding if you do this, go to YouTube and take a look at our rectal bleeding video so that you're not too concerned. And then we can if you're local, make an appointment to fix those hemorrhoids
Eric Rieger
We got a cool e book coming out here pretty soon they'll be able to make public yeah That'll be not only will it have a couple of suggestions for solutions that you can participate in, but pretty soon it will have more than one option and I can't really talk about it today, but I'm excited about that.
Ken Brown
Awesome. What else you got on your mind?
Eric Rieger
I really don't. I mean, we're starting off a new year, new year for everyone and it's 2020 I think it's got a lot of cool plays on on words. It was pointed out to me earlier this morning that just as a quick PSA, if you're writing a check, or something that requires the date for you to have written in normally in the past, you may have written October 3 2019 is /19. You probably want to go ahead and write out the 2020. Okay, somebody else could miss date for whatever advantage that they may have. If you happen to run a 20 somebody else could follow in and put a one eight or 190 Yes, a trailer on there and possibly do something to a document just a little anectdotal has nothing to do it today. But then again, it does. So maybe just to protect yourself right out 2020 I don't know. I have no idea there's any legitimacy to that or not, but it's interesting.
Ken Brown
So we that is Eric's public service announcement of the day. I wish I had one of those little shooting star things that you know
Ken Brown
Yeah. The more you know.
Eric Rieger
The more you know,
Ken Brown
Eric's The more you know, segment
Eric Rieger
Maybe Paul will give us a little wind chime or something right there.
Ken Brown
You want to get nerdy for a moment?
Eric Rieger
Let's do it.
Ken Brown
Alright, so there's a there's been a lot going on in the news. A lot of stuff has been published. We haven't a chance to talk about. Something I came across that is a passion of mine, you know that one of my big things. I there are epidemics going on right now. And we know that autism is an epidemic,we know that autoimmune is increasing. Well, the other one that I'm you know, really want to fix because I feel like you spent a whole life loving, hurting, living seeing things collecting memories, and then dementia and Alzheimer's sets it. To me, that's one of the most horrific diseases that are going on. And it's exponentially increasing. And there's a lot of confusion as to or there's a lot of reasons as to why. But a recent study just came out of the University of Berkeley, it was in December 2019. It came on out of the Journal of science and translational medicine. What they did is they looked at essentially senile mice, and they're trying to figure out what made some of these mice and they were given them different markers to see if they could create neuro inflammation or brain inflammation. Well, as it turns out, even if they looked as the mice aged, almost all of them started having decreased cognition, especially fed on the typical human or Western diet. Yeah, the American diet.
Eric Rieger
I think I know where we're going.
Ken Brown
So very Interesting what they did is they talked about this in a very unique way. I've never heard of scientists going down this path. And this is University of Berkeley. This is you know, these are these are legit people that are finding something they had their aha moment that you and I've talked about a bunch. What they found is we used to think or the trend right now not we used to because the current trend is is that the aged brain ages in the same way that everything else does. You have neuro degeneration, you have less nerve cells, you've got decreased capacity to learn more and all these other things. There are some people that believe it's micro infarction, there are some people that believe that it's amyloid plaques, but either way, your nerve function is decreasing. So age involves loss of function and dead cells, generally speaking, which is how we age. But there's new data to tell a totally different story about why the aged brain is not functioning well. It is because of the fog of inflammatory load.
Eric Rieger
Make sense.
Ken Brown
And my we always talk about this patients that come in with irritable bowel bacterial overgrowth. They're like, Man, I'm not right, I'm in a brain fog. Now we realize that that brain fog could potentially be an inflammatory load in this mouse model, they're showing that. So when you remove that inflammatory fog, they call it the inflammatory fog. When you remove that inflammatory process within days, the brain starts acting like a young brain.
Eric Rieger
That's impressive that they've been able to kind of morally morally more establish this connection because it wasn't that long ago that we were before we even started the podcast having a discussion that if you have a leaky gut, more or less, it's probably correlating with a leaky brain, right? So if you have permeability issues in your gut, chances are it's a systemic issue, and it's occurring, what they call the blood brain barrier, which protects your brain
Ken Brown
100% I think it is interesting you brought up morally because unlike the gavage study that we talked about a few weeks ago about the CBD, just gavaging tube down the mouse and just pouring buckets of it. These guys are actually waking or like helping these mice out there like, hey, look, you got a young brain now. So, more and more research is showing that with age, the filtration system, that's that blood brain barrier prevents molecules or infectious organisms from the blood leaking into the brain. This is the blood brain barrier, like I was saying, over time. In fact, they were showing that after the age of 70, it becomes more and more leaky, letting in chemicals that cause inflammation and a cascade, which ultimately creates this brain fog, which ultimately does lead to cell death. So after age 70, nearly 60% of adults have leaky brain barriers. I'll say that again. After age 70. Nearly 60% of adults have a leaky blood brain barrier and this is according to some really cool things. This is a MRI studies where they're looking at this, this is functional MRI studies. So it isn't just, you know, we can't really get in there and biopsy the brain and do these different things. So the inflammatory fog induced by leaky blood brain barrier alters the mouse's normal rhythms. And in these mice, this is fascinating. And I'll say it again, because my patients come in and they're like, I'm not right. I just feel like I'm just not firing on all cylinders. They showed in these mice, the very first signs of this are micro seizure like events, little tiny little seizures. It's not a total, it's not a total seizure, where your body does just in these little areas, like momentary lapses in the normal rhythm within the hippocampus.
Eric Rieger
Interesting.
Ken Brown
Alright, so now think about this. We talked early on about the neural phase programming, or neural phase locking. So the brain is an electrical impulse, everything comes down to this. This study shows that when you have leaky brain caused most likely by leaky gut, that you're going to have an electrical impedance problem, which they're detecting through eeg, or different processes as micro seizures. So everything comes down to electricity in the brain. So it's it's really interesting that I wonder if the science and neural phase locking could get to the point where you could counteract some of the seizures that are going on. That's a whole separate discussion, but it just gets you thinking. It's like hmm.
Eric Rieger
It does get you thinking, but it also makes me wonder, a couple of different questions. One would, how would a lay person be able to identify they had a micro seizure? Two would be how do I control inflammation because it sounds to me like concentrated inflammation is putting me a risk of developing these issues are being a part of the 70% over 70 having these problems, right. And then three, the people that don't or the mice that didn't show that they had these breakdowns in their blood brain barrier were they without significant inflammation universally. So were they comparing these two and showing that we had people or mice that didn't have inflammation and they didn't exhibit these problems, see what I'm saying?
Ken Brown
Oh, yeah.
Eric Rieger
So or and then I guess the fourth would be would that number be as high in a country that didn't consume a traditional Western diet every day? And maybe had more polyphenols or Mediterranean style diet?
Ken Brown
Very interesting fact. I will just look at this not to get off topic. I'm going to finish this. Yeah. And then we're going to talk about that because I watched a Netflix thing and I want to just briefly hit on because i'm really confused.
Eric Rieger
Was it the office? No? Okay.
Ken Brown
When you have this these little micro seizures, what they found in this mice is it produced some of the same symptoms seen in diseases like Alzheimer's and they were able to show with EEG's, really sensitive EEG's. That's what neurologists will put the, all those little wires attached to a head. And they can see if somebody's seizing, they could see this and really tiny little levels, they revealed very similar wave disruption, or they were showing a paroxysmal slow wave event. Literally, the inflammation was slowing your brainwaves down. Yeah, all my patients that go, I'm just not on, something's off. Their brain is being slowed. It's like trying to go through molasses as it's trying to conduct a current. So in a normal human with epilepsy with cognitive dysfunction, they can actually show that there's mild cognitive impairment. So even if you're not having the seizures, they can actually show that you could probably function at a higher level if you can get that fixed. So what's really cool about this paper is you were saying how do I know that this is happening? Right? This is the first time ever these The reason why I think this is a seminal article is because the papers give Doctors, two biomarkers. These two biomarkers are leaky barriers detectable by MRI and abnormal brain rhythm detectable by eeg, what they've been able to show is even in humans, young brain, old brain, they can show the leakiness of it or the permeability. And then they can show where that's happening, that there's increased micro seizure activity going on. really fascinating because what this allows it to do is it is a tool to say, Oh, I mean, that would be awesome. If I could, my patients were to come in, and I'm like, Look, we're trying to figure out if you've got leaky gut due to bacterial overgrowth, or whatever. And remember, nobody's been saying leaky. I mean, I've been saying leaky for five years, and people were laughing at me and now you've got people like at the Mayo saying leaky gut, now you've gotten these guys saying leaky brain. I mean, clearly, we're just defining something that inflammation is bad if you can keep inflammation out of your brain in any way possible. And that includes trauma and that includes drugs, alcohol, all that stuff, you're just going to be better off
Eric Rieger
Hundred percent I can remember we we tried to find five years ago if if leaky gut was anything that anybody was searching for. And at that time, the answer was no. And nowit's everywhere. Yeah, so it's applicable.
Ken Brown
Yeah. And so what's what's really cool is, you know, you can imagine if I could take these, I could take a patient and say, Oh, you're you're having leaky brain, much like checking a low density lipoprotein or, and all the other cholesterol markers that we do to try and predict if you're gonna have a heart attack, if I can get in there and go, okay, you're having some leaky brain and some inflammatory process going on in your in in your brain. You're 40 years old. We need to stop this. And we now have a marker where we can do this through change in diet, protecting your gut, taking the polyphenols, things like that. Then we can show that that's going to decrease and then you do in a preventative thing for dimentia. Yeah, super cool. Now these guys are going to take it one step further. And they're not, I don't blame them. But they're, they've come together and raise some money and they're going to try and develop a drug to seal the blood brain barrier.
Eric Rieger
Okay?
Ken Brown
Make sense? I mean, you figured that out, they want to slow and reverse this, they have started this company to develop a drug to heal the blood brain barrier for clinical treatment. Now, that being said, I'm a little bit biased, because I believe that the inflammation doesn't start in the brain it can't. It's not like the something has to be out of the brain. Think about this for a moment. And they didn't get into this at all. They didn't talk gut at all. To cross the blood brain barrier, you must be coming from outside of the brain. So the blood something in the blood is inflammatory goes into your brain, and your brain reacts to it and then you have the fog or the heaviness of inflammation.
Eric Rieger
This is not an just just for the listeners. The blood brain barrier itself is not a new concept we have drugs that we know that do and do not cross the blood brain barrier that apply to all kinds of different diseases or anesthesia that we use with patients.
Ken Brown
Yeah, as an anesthesia provider. This is this is your world. Because your job is to get those drugs past that so that you can calm the brain down.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, I mean, there there are some Anticholinergics that we know that do and technically do not cross the blood brain barrier. But every now and then, and then aged patients, some of those that we felt like shouldn't cross the blood, the blood brain barrier I can, I can still remember looking back and it's going well, we didn't think we would get that response with this. But we also weren't talking about leaky brain a decade ago. We weren't talking in those terms. And it's kind of exciting because I think that we're rounding a corner really understanding the systemic effect of bad gut health and how it actually affects the entire body.
Ken Brown
What'sso one of the one of the problems I run into in traditional medicine is when I talk to my colleagues, I'll be like, Oh, I haven't seen a study on that. You want some water? Yeah. They'll say, Well, I haven't seen, I haven't seen a clinical trial on this. And the, the only way that clinical trials can get done in these kind of things, is to go through either a huge NIH grant to have a big pharmaceutical company pay for something like this. But what you need to do is look at the objective data, like this mouse study here. We're not talking whether a drug can do stuff, what we're showing is that there is a comparative analysis between a young mouse and a young human, and you do this functional MRI study, and an old mouse and an old human and you show the intestinal permeability, or I'm sure you show the blood brain permeability, and you can show that there's a cognitive decline. So we can agree if we can agree that and if I'm talking to even a skeptic, they'll be like I don't believe in that the blood right, but we know you just said the blood brain barrier is a selective brain barrier. Yep. The gut blood barrier. So the gut barrier, the tight junctions is a select permeable barrier permeable, its job is to let certain things in, keep certain things out. When you disrupt this, it can allow too many things in. So let's start with the gut. And let's just assume that you have something happened infection, drugs, bacterial overgrowth, and it causes an inflammatory response. Different things like zonulin show up which lead to some intestinal permeability, then that turns on your inflammatory cascade, and now you've got these little inflammatory markers floating around the blood. These guys believe that they can develop a drug that will actually block TNF beta. I think? Because that's what they're going to go after, so they're gonna, they're gonna try and chase the inflammation in the brain. I'm opposite.
Eric Rieger
Let's just stop inflammation.
Ken Brown
Let's just stop the inflammation. So there was that one study, I think you're making small reference to where they actually looked. And they took human intestinal tissue and then they took a blood brain barrier tissue, so cadaver tissue, and they did an impedance study where they soak the tissue in some inflammatory they started. And what they did is they took the normal tissue, and then they did these different size molecules. So one way to determine if somebody is having some leaky gut is that let's assume that our dung beetle here is a is a certain, whatever kill adult I don't even know what size there but it's like the really tiny. And so they use these molecules where they can sit there and show and what they'll do is they'll soak the tissue and then the dung beetle can't get through and so just moves on. Then they soaked the tissue in inflammatory typical inflammatory cytokines, meaning the stuff that you're going to produce with all disease, TNF alpha, interleukin beta, like all these different CRP, CRP, you know, stuff like that, so they did it specifically. And then what they showed is the dung beetle went straight through, so then they found the dung beetle on the other side. He was going around, they're like, Uh Oh, so then they did the exact same thing with the with the blood brain barrier. And the first time they went through the blood brain barrier, blocked it, they put it in the exact same inflammatory cytokines. And it just opened right up. And then he's had a little party.
Eric Rieger
Well the cells, maybe in two different locations, but they are very similar both in structure and function in the way that they protect what they're there to protect. So it's not really that surprising. And you don't have to think that hard to understand that the blood is simply just a vehicle to spread markers all over the body in different parts of your body going to respond in different ways. There is no, to my knowledge, there is no set assignment for a marker to only go in one direction down one vessel to reach one destination. It just goes everywhere until it lands where it's gonna land. And so that's kind of how the brain gets affected. It's your gut is sick. Yeah, I mean, if you're gut is sick, chances are other parts of your body is going to be sick as well.
Ken Brown
It's so then this kind of gets into this part. So now we're having these discussions. Finally we're finally seeing in the literature discussion about leaky gut leaky brain. But we're what we're talking about is these things cause chronic condition. And it seems to be getting worse. So I made either the mistake or a brilliant move. I think a lot of people have talked about game changers. Yeah, Game Changers the end. So I took it a step further because I was on I was on hospital this whole week. My family's out of town. So when I had a moment, I was watching some Netflix, sitting on the toilet, you know,
Eric Rieger
texting?
Ken Brown
Texting. No. I watched what the health and I think you had told me about this years ago.
Eric Rieger
That one's a real kick in the gut man
Ken Brown
That one. Oh, my goodness, that one's...
Eric Rieger
That if you don't like game changers don't watch that one.
Ken Brown
Yeah, that's worse. That one's next level. And the problem is, is that it's, there's just an I get that all of a sudden you guys I youtubed afterwards and rebuttal after rebuttal and all this other stuff, but you know some of the stuff you're like, Oh, no. What if I love meat!
Eric Rieger
Well, I will at least say this. I think that the game changers for the most part, the producers, and the writers probably believe a lot of what they say. I felt like what the health was just engineered to mask. I mean, I felt like they were they were bad da withholding evidence through a lot of it. It just did not. It did not pass the smell test.
Ken Brown
I could see how it could it could go around. So I had my annual doctor appointment this morning. And so it's with its with Kevin Wilson at smart wellness now, and he's a he's a functional medicine practitioner. And so we were I was asking him about this. We're going over my labs and everything and he is a strong, I guess, a paleo style. You know, autoimmune paleo style lifestyle here kind of thing. He looks great and he's got no fat on him his and so we talked about his blood work. You know his typical diet is six eggs with ham and cheese in the morning and then some leafy greens with some grass fed meat and then have a little bit of carbs like that sweet potato with a smaller meal and we're talking about his labs and his cholesterol is perfect and his you know, insulin levels are perfect his hemoglobin A1-C. And then so we started talking about different things. I tried the whole plant based diet but I think I did it wrong. And I went get all the the fake packaged sausage and chicken and everything and I got really inflamed. I don't think my body went with that. Then we started talking about differences in his patients and what he's seen and so he had two patients that went on the carnivore diet and one labs completely improved and the other one didn't change at all. And so you just start looking at these different these different movies and stuff and you go Okay, what is let's take a big step back, getting away from the whole thing of plant based slash veganism or carnivores slash paleo, you know, those are I guess, those are the The the diets that people will really be kind of passionate about because they're kind of on the extremes over here and go, okay, is it possible that we're all genetically meant to have a slightly different diet? Is it possible that you know, there's a lot of different so like in my blood work, I'm very surprised I my LDL has crept up a little bit. Fortunately, my HDL is still real high. Yeah, my inflammatory markers are nothing. And so we're trying to figure out well, why did your cholesterol go up a little bit? Well, I do play around with my diet a lot. I'll go into extreme. And I think it kind of throws my body for a little bit of a loop but then it got me thinking, I started looking at different countries with the highest incidence of coronary vascular disease and, and you look and it's, it's Russia, Germany, it's the US and then you come down and then there's Spain, Italy, Japan are that are the healthiest right now is that crops is that lifestyle is that the polyphenol content, you know, I always think that it's diets really based on the polyphenol content and then I watched Patriot Act patriot act with oh we're gonna have to look that up Hassan the comedian.
Eric Rieger
Oh yeah the show?
Ken Brown
The show. Yeah so I think the his last show of the of the year was looking at how America is making other countries fat and it really targeted one particular company, really Coca Cola. High fructose corn syrup when they have shown that high fructose corn syrup is brought in and some of these countries like China, Mexico I'm trying to think of all these other countries but just India, country after country that starts getting exposed to this then that's like the window to come in. And then it ends up being that you have these fast food places and stuff like that. And without a doubt everyone is definitely becoming more obese. So is it this all started. Oh, that's all I did not know this. It's gonna be blamed on Richard Nixon. As it turns out, yeah. When the economy dropped and he goes into explain it, obviously he's a super smart guy. Yeah. And he's funny, but he's really make sense. Yeah, he was describing that Richard Nixon did that for a bunch of different reasons. And Hassan actually says that he goes, there's a bunch of reasons here for like, economics. I won't get into them if you want to pause it right now and write these down. But it basically goes into why richard nixon did some sort of farming subsidy to allow the increased growth of corn.
Eric Rieger
Okay, yeah.
Ken Brown
And so it was some sort of subsidies to keep the economy up and all this other stuff. And so then they had this excess of corn that then became high fructose corn syrup. It's then as in everything,
Eric Rieger
Yeah, it is.
Ken Brown
That's where you start. That's I apologize earlier, when I said that the track athletes take high fructose corn syrup. They take straight fructose, which is the sugar in fruits. But once you convert corn to high fructose corn syrup, that may be the culprit. That's what's in all the sodas. That's what's in everything. You just got me thinking that if we're over here saying our plant based it's carnivore diet. I don't know. But I do know that if you're opening a package, probably like what happened to me, when I tried to do my whole vegan diet for a week where I was trying to subset I was trying to substitute every meat that I would normally have with some sort of meat substitute. I got super inflamed. Yeah, I don't think it was toxins leaving my body,
Eric Rieger
Probably not in every instance. But it seems like if things are compounded to withstand or extend shelf life, more than likely, it's probably not the best way to consume whatever it is you're eating.
Ken Brown
So I'll give everybody an update. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna change my diet a little bit. I'm going to be actually I've, I just, you know, just dabble in different diets and have, you know, fun with it and go on the extreme and whatever. And so, Kevin and I talked, it's like, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna put you on an actual regimen. You're actually going to be a patient now and you're going to like, actually do what I say. And so I had to laugh. I'm like, okay, no, I don't really do that. We're gonna see what happens. I mean, it's the good news. You know, he's got he's got a lot of his patients where he wants to get their hemoglobin a one see below four.He doesn't play around with that 55-56-57 range that a lot of people are happy to be in. He wants him below four. And not really even looking at body fat, stuff like that, because then what he's looking at is inflammatory markers, sed rate CRP, different things like that. And what is really kind of interesting is that my cholesterol went up and we were trying to figure it out. And what I had been doing, which is a little bit of a curveball is you know, I do intermittent fasting. What could be and then we looked at my genetic profile, I'm a cholesterol hyper absorber genetically. So, it I may be the small subset of people that should probably have just strict three meals so that my body isn't absorbing. Because, you know, because that first meal I'll just rawr, yeah, sure. You know, and just ravenous don't know, it's just it's another little caveat. It just gets, it gets back to the whole thing that maybe there isn't one thing for everybody and everybody has to take a step back and maybe go see a really smart guy like that. That looks at your blood work, looked at your genetics and says, Okay, this may be better for you.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, no, maybe it does make sense. We are all very much the same, and also very, very different in all of that's, okay. There's another, I would throw a monkey wrench in this train of thought. But there's even a subset of folks that talk about the natural eating should really mimic what is naturally available during the season, where you're at, for you to optimally be absorbing the right kind of nutrients. Like if you're eating a fruit that shouldn't really be available that time of year that probably isn't best for your body. I've not seen science behind it, but maybe there's something to it. I've no idea that's a whole nother topic, but it's interesting because that's how a lot of people try to figure out how to get healthier.
Ken Brown
That's Why anytime any celebrity comes out with a cookbook, somebody's gonna buy it or anytime some new diet is because we have not figured out exactly what the ideal diet is. And I will give what the health credit that they did show that there is lots of lobbying lots of money. To try and make sure that our US government, the FDA, the USDA, things like that, that are looking out for our best interest. Really, there's, I was a little bit shocked to see the people that are funding some of these charities like the American diabetic Association, the American Heart Association, and Susan G. Komen. A little surprised. There's a lot of money accepted from fast food companies and things like that.
Eric Rieger
Probably not really interested in the results. This more or less the continuation of lots of customers,
Ken Brown
Although I will say that for the right price. I could just see you and I year from now and be like, Eric, this is the new Big Mac sponsored by McDonald's.
Eric Rieger
I don't think so patna. I'm not going down that route.
Ken Brown
Oh, I almost died number of the time you're telling the whole story of you were trapped when you almost died? Yeah. Your near death experience.
Eric Rieger
Oh on the run the rock.
Ken Brown
Yeah, where you almost got waved to death.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, yeah yeah that was almost the end of Marie and I for sure yeah.
Ken Brown
And I gave you my near death story of wrong turned into a McDonald's drive through.
Eric Rieger
Yours was scarier. Yeah no i don't i don't see us being sponsored by McDonald's,
Ken Brown
I want to try this if everybody gets a chance to do this number one, if you look up fasting, specifically a prolonged fast, it's remarkably healthy for you on a cellular level. It's not there to lose weight. It's not there to do anything but it's the turn yourselves on. When I'm fasting. And I'm like walking by a TV. I want to say 80% of the time it's a food commercial. It's Pizza hamburgers or fried chicken or something here is I'm paying attention. I'm hungry. Wow, just all the commercials visually are just coming at us with food.
Eric Rieger
What's weird is it's more appealing to me to learn what restaurant or eatery features are really good tasting salad with good lettuce. And I know that's not how I thought when I was a teenager as a teenager, I wanted the fried chicken or in every stomach is fried chicken tastes great, right? I mean, it's, it's good. But as I've gotten older, and I my body doesn't just accept anything that I put into it anymore, where I'm just happy and I'm sure a lot of our listeners feel the same. I've been conditioned that I want to know where I can get a great tasting meal that's going to be healthy for me. So how long would it be until that becomes more of the norm in what the advertising gets the market is for people to gain attention because I always say that I feel like it's going to change 15 years ago, 20 years ago, especially if you didn't have the restaurants like modern market, unrefined bakery, taco deli, which talks nothing about except for we have all organic ingredients. For all of our tacos, but that stuff is becoming far more popular,
Ken Brown
Far more popular here, Bella green things like that.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, Bella green.
Ken Brown
Let's go to Galveston. Let's go to Corpus Christi. That makes it so it's super unfortunate that there is and I think in different socio economic climates you're the options to eat where was I that's just south of Oklahoma took Lucas to a tournament.
Eric Rieger
Wichita? Is that right?
Ken Brown
Bob Burnett? Is that right?
Eric Rieger
Oh Burt Burnett.
Ken Brown
Burt Burnett. Yeah. I drove around trying to find something to eat that wasn't what a burger. It was nuts.
Eric Rieger
Brahms and What-a-burger.
Ken Brown
Brahms and water burger. Yeah. So in these, you know, smaller communities that's just not happening.
Eric Rieger
And it's not like that there's anything wrong with an occasional what a burger and an occasional Brahms. drive through. That's not the point. But that can't be your core diet. That can't be your only core offering. And I would like to be optimistic and think okay, well, everybody else is eating great food at home when they're not eating out, but we know the stats that's not really at today's people live You don't have options like that though.
Ken Brown
Yeah. And that's when when you see these extreme shows like that, whether it's the plant based when you have the exact anecdotal differences where people are strict paleo and they're in great shape and they're, you know, they've their cardiac calcium scores nothing and stuff, you're like, Okay, well wait a minute, you know, and so who knows, but it was just it got me thinking that I'm going to really try and focus a little bit harder on working on a few things be a little more disciplined and not being so reactive. Watch whatever show I'm watching and then it's a watch Joe Rogan. We're going carnivore, Eric.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, I love meat, but I couldn't do that either. That would that would be really really hard. Who's it Shaun Baker.
Ken Brown
Shaun Baker was the carnivore
Eric Rieger
And he's all in and Jordan Peterson and his daughter to escape autoimmune issues went I think they're almost all carnivore isn't that right? Am i remebering that right?
Ken Brown
Yeah. I think they are. I would just be curious. You know, one of my Friends, a cardiologist, Mordecai Klein, he completely went plant based he feels like a change his diet as a as a cardiologist, one of the few cardiologist discussing that we should have him on the show to talk about it.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, I'd be interested in that. You know, I, there's probably nothing wrong with taking a break from meat. But I just don't think that a long term diet for success or somebody exists without meat. But that's my opinion. I just don't think so. Sounds really hard. If you're taking a bunch of supplements just to make up for the nutrients that you're not getting, or the fact that they can measure it. What is he saying you can measure a food by its certain protein content, but the difference is, plant based protein is not nearly as bioavailable as heme protein from an animal in certain instances. I mean, that's important.
Ken Brown
And there's all kinds of things with that. There's what Kevin and I were talking about today. He said, If you eat raw spinach, I think the iron is 30% bioavailable and iron reproach and remember what it was but once you sautee it, it, it releases things and then it's more bioavailable. Yeah. exact opposite of broccoli For instance, if you want sulforaphane, once you cook it, that molecule dies and that's really super important molecule. Yeah, we'll do a whole show on one time.
Ken Brown
Yeah probably going ot be soon.
Ken Brown
Because I'm a pretty pretty big fan of sulforaphane. So this is the the first start of the year we covered pooping on toilets while using your phone. We covered leaky brain, Melanie Avalon, new app that lets say one more time there go ahead and take a look at that. It's called the food sense guide
Eric Rieger
Food since guide, Nani haven't given her give her a review if you download it.
Ken Brown
Yeah, absolutely. And so I think we're going to have some really exciting things. I think one of the things what are your goals for 2020? Regarding strictly this podcast.
Eric Rieger
Strictly this podcast, really, everyone could help with this and it's free. Like and share, like and share. I want to see if we can grow our audience by tenfold by the time that we talked at this point a year from now.
Ken Brown
Where do they like and share it at?
Eric Rieger
You can go to KB MD health and our new website and you will see podcast it takes you from the top straight down to the middle of the page. You can like and share us at YouTube gut check project. Same thing on iTunes. And I believe that soon on the website will have the other podcast availabilities like Stitcher, etc. They'll all be listed on there you can like and share us it all the platforms, but we just want to get the free educational word out there to people so that that hopefully there's a resource and send your questions send your questions to us because we want to cover the topics that are meaningful to you.
Ken Brown
Where do they send the questions to?
Eric Rieger
You can go to KB MD health and go down to the podcast and you can see the form or you can send us a question and inquiry whatever whatever you want. We get we get them we get questions about CBD about polyphenols. We had several follow ups for several months ago on photo bio modulation on how do I get in touch with Dr. McKenna about stem cells. I mean, on and on. We want this to be a two way street. We can give you service as well as our topics of education. So This is your podcast as much as it is ours.
Ken Brown
We're going to get into the I totally forgot that the in a follow up study where they showed the leaky gut leaky brain, then they soaked both of them in PEA, and CBD. And it actually decreases the ability of our little dung beetle to get through. So we do know that these natural molecules can actually help heal that inflammatory process. So there's a we're just going to be doing a ton of stuff on the science of CBD. Let's make it so it's real. So people aren't just throwing out just random things, but we're basing it on some studies and some science and stuff like that. I personally want to We are very fortunate. Right down the road here is UNT. And I was doing some research, I was looking at some articles, and I'm like, wait a minute that says UNT right there. Then I found out there's a whole brain Institute of scientific research. They got an anti aging arm they get an anti inflammatory arm. They've got a social arm like buildings, the whole departments.
Eric Rieger
Is it UNT or UTD?
Ken Brown
UTD. I'm getting it backwards.
Eric Rieger
Okay good because that wasn't where you sent me the other day. I wasn't really sure.
Ken Brown
You You were you went way north. It's right by the studio.
Eric Rieger
There's Nobody here!
Ken Brown
So one of our patients has already volunteered to come on and talk and he's got some cool stuff. It's a it's stimulating the Vegas nerve so that you can actually stop Parkinson's. There's stuff like this that's going on. And one of the reasons why I think that we want to get everything out there is hope.
Eric Rieger
Yeah, people need hope.
Ken Brown
I mean, if you're frustrated and you're sitting there and worried about different things, there's stuff coming. For instance, like I'm now I have to actually have my readers kind of nearby once in a while because if the lighting isn't perfect, I'm just to that point, my sister over the holiday, Claudia, that she had some dry eye thing whatever. And her vision was going off. She went in and they put a bifocal lens in one eye. She's had glasses. Since she was like second grade and a far vision and this one brand new lenses pow done no contacts no glasses done and read upclose and far away wow different than lasix This is actually putting a new which means she's completely protected from cataracts from now on the rest of the life.
Eric Rieger
Yeah cuz she did the whole lens replacement.
Ken Brown
The whole lens replacement so so like when I'm looking at these glasses going oh no, here it is. I'm getting old. I'm like no, there's hope. I'm gonna go get my lenses replaced.
Eric Rieger
Man That's impressive. That's pretty cool. You didn't tell me that from before. That's that's good for her good for Claudia.
Ken Brown
Yeah, I actually went I surprised mom. I flew up for 24 hours in Omaha, popped in and said hi to her and we wouldn't get her hooked up with a new computer and I got our Amazon Echo and she's been playing music.
Eric Rieger
Well, I can share us gut check project. We wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you. So we sincerely appreciate all of the folks and certainly all the feedback the like and shares with all your friends and family. I think 2020 is going to be a big year for us.
Ken Brown
Let's crush this year. Let's crush this decade claim the whole decade. Yeah, let's just change the landscape of health everywhere. Let's grow this community. Let's help each other on super pumped and there's no health topic that's off the table if we need to have something that's completely unrelated to gut health trust me, we want to have the expert that appeals to you on the show. Yeah. Any questions. All right. Welcome to 2020! Episode 27!
Eric Rieger
Y'all Take care. See y'all soon.
All right. Welcome to the gut check project. I'm here with your host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. I'm Eric Rieger. This is gut check project, Episode Number 26. We're going to wind up 2019 with some awesome info. What's up, Ken?
What's going on Eric? How are you doing, man? Episode 26.
Unbelievable.
I apologize if I'm a little too sexy today because I'm just coming off of a small cold.
I think the hottest people are those that are sick.
Well, I'm not sick. I'm post sick. Remember, the viral prodrome. The reason why we always like pass so many viruses is that you tend to pass the virus before you even know that you're sick by the time you're actually sick. You're probably okay
Yeah. At that point you can go back and say I heard you might be sick. I was too back then.
Yeah, exactly.
Good to see you?
Well, today's episode is going to be pretty awesome. We're going to tackle number one, we've received tons of email in your clinic because you also sell the KBMD CBD at your clinic, you get these questions. These have been coming in Fast and Furious over the last little over 14 days. And it's questions about the safety of CBD oil and its application. So we're going to tackle that I do need to tell everyone. Thank you. We're on episode 26 because the first 25 shows were so well supported by all of you who've been keeping up with a gut check project. We grow every single day. Paul, the guy who's helping us put together the production now and helping us spread the word. We just hung up the phone with him. We've gotten more and more downloads each week. So thank thank you every single one of you for liking, sharing, emailing, telling your friends about it. We sincerely appreciate it.
We learned so much about it like today we have a new a different guests we do Instead of gutsy our little mascot or green frog, but since we do film on a green screen, he gets blocked out did not know that didn't even realize that. So now we're going to go with a dung beetle, right here?
Yeah, yeah, we did. So that's Dilbert, the dung beetle,
Dilbert, the dung beetle. So one of my favorite things is whenever we're bringing any patients back and somebody sees you, and they're like, hey, you're Eric, I watch your show that just warms my heart. So if you happen to be a patient and show up and you watch the show, if you say that it just makes us both feel really, really well...needed wanted, appreciated.
Yeah. At least outside of me putting you to sleep. Take five or six good deep breaths.
Exactly.
Today's episode is sponsored by Atrantil. Your bloating relief, it's what we do. So go to Atrantil.com or lovemytummy.com/KBMD. Today it's also sponsored by KBMD CBD oil. You can find your own KBMD CBD oil at kbmdhealth.com which of course, the initials KB, Kenneth Brown, it's endorsed by the guy who's sitting across the table from me. So Ken, why is...
What does MD stand for?
Well, I'm not really sure.
I thought it was your buddy Mike Doyle, but I don't know.
Yeah, it's probably. So tell us a little bit about KBMD CBD.
Alright, so KBMD CBD oil. I got involved with the science of CBD because I saw the beneficial effect with my patients when we developed Atrantil I then learned that the science of Atrantil the polyphenols in it actually augment CBD. So I'm seeing this combination do incredible things for people. So this particular CBD is one that we have researched, I've seen it work clinically. And we know that it comes with a certificate of analysis. It is organically grown, it is naturally extracted with co2, so it meets all the criteria that you want in your CBD because this is important. The rest of this podcast is going to be all about the dangers of CBD.
Definitely and It's really interesting since we do have so many people who have begun to purchase CBD find benefit. It's really kind of weird what's occurred over the last two weeks. And what I would say is a little bit of misinformation. But it's more or less probably just misunderstood information and or or misapplied information. But regardless, the benefits of CBD used correctly, have been undeniable with the people who've come back through the clinic with people that we've scoped, and how well that they are doing. And so, hopefully today, we're going to provide some context on why more or less the dangers that you may or may not have read about in the news recently are really a little concerned. But we'll, we'll see. We'll see how far along we get in at the last. The last thing. Our last sponsor is the KBMD health box. You can find KBMD health box by going to kbmdbox.com. Now last week we did a full unboxing which is something I think we're going to try to do at least once a month. But essentially, if you want almost $300 of physician vetted supplements that can help you benefit your life and get them for only $147 which you would spend, not you would spend more than $147 worth of time driving somewhere to pick them out for yourself and having someone handpick them for you. Go to KBMDbox.com. What was one of the things that we had a patient come through just earlier this week, who showed us his lab results that he took to his primary care physician?
So we're starting to make a difference in the landscape of health here in the DFW Metroplex and different places. I've been getting emails and calls from people around the country that will actually hear the podcast and then they'll want to sign up for the box. And what we're seeing is that these vetted supplements actually are making a difference with both subjective how they feel and objective the labs. So the reason why I chose these things is they all have third party analysis. And they all have some scientific background that actually explains how they're going to help you. So much so that I'm thinking of ordering my household, another box. So although it is the KBMD Health box, I actually I love the fact that I can get these things that I'm going to purchase anyways, they come into my house, so my whole family's on it. Now we're running out of stuff. So I'm gonna end up having to double up on everything. So it's one of those things that I feel really good that we can look at different aspects. And when somebody says, Oh, I tried X, Y, and Z, I didn't notice anything. I'm like, oh, did you try one that had a third party analysis? No. And then they do and they're like, Oh my gosh, big difference. Same thing with CBD. I mean, a lot of CBD out there doesn't really have what's on the label. And we're going to get into that because we're going to talk about what the FDA thinks about it. We're going to talk about the different media and what they're doing, and hopefully get into all that but that's the whole point of that box is I want to deliver these vetted things to your house monthly so that you can continue to improve your health.
Hundred percent. So without further adieu, be sure to like and share the gut check project. We certainly appreciate all of the support to date. We're going to hop right into it. So what we've received here recently is a lot of speculation and concern from people who have said, Hey, I'm interested in CBD. I know that you and Dr. Brown have heavily studied, been entrenched with CBD and its application over the last few years. I just learned that the FDA is associated or made public a study that says that it may be hepatic toxic or bad for my liver. It's, unfortunately, it's a weird jump off point. So I'm going to kick it to you. Because immediately I had lots of different thoughts and instead of getting emotional, what did we do? We went and tried to find the sources of where this information came from. We want to backtrack on how they got to that conclusion. And I think that we can put a lot of questions at ease and even help people learn how to be a little bit more critical with the data that they receive when they receive it. Because let's face it, lots of stuff that we see on the internet, or that we hear on the news or reading the paper, it's basically clickbait. It's basically things to keep you engaged, whether or not the actual substance is worth the headlines that are written so...
So what you're referring to is recently the FDA put out a statement, a consensus statement in the news and it's making all kinds of traction in the news that they're saying that CBD is not as safe as people think not only that it can be harmful. Now this has bled onto TV and my patients have been asking me about this FDA statement. Then there's been other news articles like the one that Forbes published, read said that CBD causes liver failure.
Failure.
That was the title liver failure caused by CBD. I want to get into all that I wanted to take a really deep dive into the science of all of this as a gastroenterologist, I'm board certified gastroenterologist, which means not only am I a simple country, butt doctor from Texas, but we actually have to learn liver disease, hepatology, I'm not a hepatologist like some of my other friends where I send like really complex things, but we at least have to understand the liver, how it works and what it does. So a lot of these articles discuss this but they don't clarify so many little things. Because and they shouldn't it's a it's a journalist writing an article they want they want it to be shared. And anytime you mentioned CBD, anytime that that is thrown out there, you're going to get some clicks, you're going to get a whole lot more clicks. If you say you're going to die from taking CBD. It reminds me of the I remember Jerry Seinfeld was on Saturday Night Live one time and they were making fun of the nightly news where they always do the promo at like three o'clock. Like five household items that are guaranteed to kill you, tonight at six.
You're like what?
If it was so important, they probably wouldn't make you wait.
No, I'm gonna die before you put this on the air. So what I'd like to do is talk about the briefly the science of the endocannabinoid system and CBD, then do a little bit deeper dive into the liver. So everyone's going to get a primer on the liver 101 here, because these studies don't make sense unless you know, some of this knowledge. It's just sensationalism. For some of it, some of it is a little bit unfair. I think some of it is for what the FDA got, and it's there. But I just want this podcast today to be something that can be useful for industry people that can be useful for patients or people that are thinking about taking CBD and it can be useful for a subset a small subset of people that may be should not consider taking it.
Yeah.
So all of this is kind of, you know, for the future of this podcast, It's almost going to be a bit of a rebuttal. Not necessarily a defense of hemp derived CBD. But let's just buckle up and kick some science. This might be a little bit I don't know how long we're going to go where we're going to go with this. We're just going to feel it out and see what happens. But I at least want to be able to explain why I still believe that a lot of people should be taking CBD even though Forbes is like you're gonna die from this.
Yeah.
It's not arsenic people.
No it isn't and I think another cool application here is there are people out there who have been on the fence on whether or not I should try CBD or is this something that's good for a family member for me? And unfortunately, there you hit this intersection, where a news headline is written that CBD causes liver failure. Well, if they've been on the fence, that's a pretty big No, no, right? So now you've taken away maybe an avenue that they were considering to help them out. What I hope that we can do with this particular episode is basically let's temper and let's see things in context. I think context is a word that as you get into sensationalism is something that is kind of the rescue item. If I could put something into context, then at least I'm giving someone a fair chance to understand the information that's before them. I don't feel like sensationalized headlines do things like that. Then again, I also don't feel like someone who shakes, hand picked or cherry pick studies is doing that either. So what I think today that we can do is fairly evaluate and talk about the process of how the liver works, and why some of these studies are or are not applicable to the nature they were presented.
Absolutely. So the first one we got to discuss is what what what the heck did the FDA say?
Sure.
So the FDA came out and they mentioned that they've got several issues with the safety of CBD. The two main ones that they're really concerned about are potential for liver injury, and interactions with other drugs. What they actually said is that they're concerned that people may mistakenly believe that trying CBD can't hurt the agency wants to be clear that they have seen only limited data about CBD safety. And these data point to two real risks that need to be considered as part of the drug review and approval process for the prescription drug containing CBD.
Interesting.
Now, what I say this is because the FDA is referring to the data that was presented to them by GW Pharmaceuticals, who has a epid... eipdi..x you know?
E-p-i-d-i-o-l-e-x
Yes, which is the first FDA approved prescription CBD isolate,
Right,
for seizure disorders.
It's important to point out that is not full spectrum.
Correct.
That is not full spectrum. And there's some that's important because here later in the podcast, and think we're going to draw some comparisons and just if you're listening, just remember, epidiolex is a CBD Only isolate it is not a full spectrum product.
So let's talk about what the FBA what the FDA actually does. So the FDA has a really daunting task. The Food and Drug Administration is responsible for protecting the public health by ensuring the safety, efficacy and security of products. So it is super daunting because there's a lot of products hitting the market, and the FDA has tried keep up with this to try and protect people. And let's be honest, let's look at the elephant in the room. The elephant in the room is that there are a lot of bad CBD products out there.
Yep.
In fact, in a jam article 2017 showed that 70% of the CBD products that they looked at did not have what was on the label and what was there could be higher levels of CBD could be lower levels of CBD. So it's a gamesmanship that's going on right now. So it is totally true that you need to make sure that you've done your homework on what type of CBD that you're actually taking. There currently is little to no regulation in the CBD industry. There is the President and CEO of Natural Products Association NPA. His name is Daniel Fabricant. He's a PhD. I love this quote. He's quoted as saying it is well past time to bring science into the equation, as federal rules require safety and Consumer Protection must come first.
I agree.
And we all agree with that.
Sure.
And I think that all companies that have reputable CBD companies, they all want that. Problem is when you have these different stories leaking out, which gain much more traction, it just starts creating a little bit of confusion misconception, and then people don't really know where to turn. So the feeling is, is that possibly statements by the FDA saying that it creates this narrative that questions the safety of CBD overall, strictly to address a few number of companies which are producing quite frankly, some crap products.
What was the number that we learned the last time that we were in Utah at meeting I believe it was one out of every 23 to 24, I could be off it was definitely in the 20s. But every to every 23 or 24,25, CBD labels available for retail purchase. One is seen as a reputable well marketed or correctly labeled product, which means that even if it happens to be off a little bit, you've got 23 or 24 other labels which are just not truthful or probably not correct, don't have a certificate of analysis or are blatantly, just not even what's in the bottle.
100%. There's a lot of people out there trying to take advantage of this wave that's coming. So I do not. I believe that the FDA is doing their job by looking at the data that was actually presented to them
Agree.
So let's take some time and break all this down for the consumers, health care providers, industry personnel. Starting with the question, does CBD cause liver damage? Unfortunately, or fortunately, because I like science we really need to talk about what the endocannabinoid system is. Because if somebody's listening to this, they're like, Well, I was thinking about taking this but I'm worried becasue it can cause liver failure. I don't know why I'm taking it. Why in the world should I be taking it? So let's do a quick one minute discussion of the endocannabinoid system.
Let's do it!
All right, the endocannabinoid system. The endocannabinoid system is a system which was discovered in the 90s that we now realize it's probably everywhere in the body. There's primarily two different types of receptors, but essentially, the way that I try to explain it to my patients, it's concentrated more so in the neural areas, nerves, brain and the immune areas. Although we now know it's in every single organ, that's where all the original research was. We now realize that its job, the endocannabinoid system is to produce these products called endocannabinoids. Which work as traffic cops. They just kind of get your body to get back to an area of balance. If you've got too much activity, they go Whoa, slow down a little bit. If it's not enough, they go, come on. Let's go ahead and get some more going here. So you have this fantastic system in your body that really just tries to keep balanced. Think of it that way. And you're going to hear a little bit later why I think most of America is out of balance. I think most of America needs some replenishment of their own endocannabinoid system. So that's the important thing is is that there's a dire need to try and get us all back to a certain balance, because the reality is we're getting sicker as a nation. And one of the causes could be that we took hemp derived foods out of our diet and out of our livestock diet. And there's a theory on that, that possibly that's one of the reasons why we're having more autoimmune diseases, why we're having more of the other problems that we're seeing,
Well at least contributing factor.
Certainly at least a contributing factor. So keep this in mind. So the the primer on the endocannabinoid system is if you're, if you have ears and you're hearing this, you also have an endocannabinoid system, and you have a higher than likely chance that you are out of balance with that. And if you are out of balance with that, then you probably could benefit from some of this.
Sure.
So right now you're going well, I'm out of balance, I'm going to probably benefit but I'm going to go into liver failure if I do this. So let's talk about what liver failure means. You have a genius living within you. You probably have multiple geniuses living within you.
Thank you. That feels great.
Sometimes the voices in your head don't say to do bad things.
The evil genius. Yeah.
Well, one of the geniuses living within you as this beautiful origin called your liver. So you have this and it's amazing. So to understand where they're going with this, let's talk about what the liver actually does. So we all have livers. And they work differently in every single person, and they can continue to adapt, evolve and change. One of the only organs that you can transplant a partial portion of it and it will grow into a full liver. So the nephrologist think that the kidneys, the smartest organ, the neurologists will think that the brain is the smartest organ
The cardiologist says if you don't have blood, you can't think so It must be the heart.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm gonna say, well, for health span, smartest organ in the body is the endocannabinoid system. So eventually, we're going to have Endocannabinoidologists. Because what ends up turning out is that the endocannabinoid system is in all these different organs.
Correct.
They're not completely separated. So let's talk about the liver. The liver is responsible if you ever wonder what the liver does. So do you have any idea what the liver does?
I've got a little bit of an idea...
Little bit of an idea. So the liver is responsible for selective uptake, concentration, metabolism, and excretion of the majority of drugs and toxins, also known as xenobiotics. So let me just say that again. Basically, the liver takes the crap that you bring into the world. And it says, I'm going to convert it to something useful, or I'm gonna get rid of it for you. Yeah, it can detoxify it, or it can say, Oh, you need to be this and then you're useful. That's why I say it's a genius in your body. And it the liver figures this out, it figures out what you need, and it determines if it's a drug, or if it's a toxin, and it can turn into a better form. Now, one of the problems I have with these different articles that I've been reading, is that they discuss that then enzymatic process called the P 450 system, and they just write it like that they're like, CBD has been shown to affect the P 450 system.
What doesn't affect the P450?
So that's the issue. So let me break that down, I bring up the P 450 because in the lay literature without even describing what it is, it is a complex. It's called a phase one metabolism of the liver. Under p 450. It's an umbrella term that has over 60 different genes, that code for hundreds of enzymes to break down anything that comes your way. So the P 450 enzyme is like saying, Oh, I don't even know an analogy, but it's top of the funnel down. It's like you just so generic, that you can't just say that. So but they write it in the lay literature almost as a sounds sciency so I'm sure that it's, I'm sure that it's right. That's kind of my feeling on I'm like, why would and all these people it's almost like these news articles parrot each other. And nobody's stopping going, wait a minute, because as it turns out, the P450 system, not the P450 enzyme, the system breaks down almost everything that we put in our bodies.
Yeah, no joke. So a lot of going back to the pharmaceutical days, I remember that was one of the biggest challenges with with any of the drugs that we detailed a physician on was, how is it affecting the P 450. And that would be something that they would be all salespeople be coached on that before they would go on calling a physician. But the truth is, it doesn't have to be a compound. It doesn't have to be a medical pharmaceutical compound for that to be somewhat important. Something as simple as grapefruit juice. Also, detectibily inhibits the metabolic ability of the P 450. So there's all there's a handful of different drugs that people who are elderly, maybe caution, don't drink grapefruit juice, because it will inhibit your ability for your body to clear this particular drug. And I say that to say this. It's not nothing is inherently just special because it does or does not directly affect the P450, almost everything you take into your body is either cleared quickly or slowly by that same system.
Yeah, so they kind of imply like CBD is the only thing that gets...
Not even close.
...that gets processed in the in the P450 system. In fact, we know that there are multiple medications that can be altered by certain foods. Grapefruit is the most common one, and that really affects like immunosuppressants tremendously and that's where it really came up. When they realized, oh my gosh, you have these different drugs, let's say blood thinners and immunosuppressants, which have a very narrow therapeutic window, you have to have these things like right dialed in. Yeah. And then people talk about grapefruit but you know, other things that have actually been shown to do this cranberry juice, black tea, pepper, even chocolate
Yep.
has been shown to affect drug absorption and they have been shown to affect certain pharmaceuticals. We don't even know the tip of the iceberg on this because you have to do the study on it. You have to do the pharmaco kinetics, the PK is what it's called to actually determine that which is so funny because they say oh CBD is metabolized by the P450 system.
That means nothing.
And so if you take CBD and or chocolate and or drink tea, be careful. I mean...
I think a good analogy a seriously a good analogy is it the P450 being metabolized by the P450. It may be good for base knowledge, but the truth is, is does it overwhelm that, as you put it system, if it is overwhelming that system, chocolate, for instance, for most intents and purposes would be like a single car driving down a six lane highway by itself. It's not really if the highway was a P450 and the car was the chocolate. It doesn't take anything to funnel that that car through.
Correct.
The problem is is whenever you happen to overwhelm that system. And that is important to know. But I would say in terms of context, kind of the way that we started this discussion in context. It's not my belief through what I've read and seen that CBD inherently overwhelms or becomes more than a single car down that six lane highway.
So not only is it just one single car going down the highway, remember that not only foods but drugs, nobody's talking about drug drug interaction.
Right.
So there's a reason. So I see a lot of patients that one drug may be very effective one thing may be very effective, but there's so many variables like for instance, drugs, the sex of the person plays a role, you may have different levels, the age of the person and any diseases can all affect this whole system called the P 450 which produces enzymes. So not only that, but then genetics play a huge factor,
alcohol intake.
Alcohol intake, all of that. I mean, genetically, this may be why some drugs work on certain people and why they don't work and others fact there's a whole field of science right now where people are trying to determine the genetics ato go, Oh, you're going to need a higher level of whatever Plavix which is one that they've actually looked at. Or you can, you're going to take less. So we this is a whole field of this beautiful science where we can go Okay, genetically, you're going to be predisposed to need more medications. So when these enzymes get used up, basically if you've got this one chocolate, which is a car, one on six lane highway, and then you add fluconazole, which is an antifungal, that's an but that's not a car, that's a semi now and then you add alcohol, which is a minivan
could be ccould be a couple minivans
and then you do whatever something else, but you can see that the liver has to try and process this right. So what happens is it becomes this once it becomes a traffic jam. Then people start getting angry, they start honking their horn that is a rise in your what we call lfts liver function panels liver function test Yeah, so AST and ATL are the two ones that we always talk about, that's exactly what the FDA was referencing. So I want everybody hear this. When you overwhelm the liver with multiple cars using your analogy, then honking starts and the honking the warning sign is this rise in AST and ALT. So, for instance, your body can adapt to it. We've seen this all the time. If you drink alcohol on a regular basis.
you build more lanes,
you build more lanes, you get really good at metabolizing alcohol.
Build tollways.
I'll use myself as an example.
Not with alcohol.
With coffee,
Okay.
I always have to laugh. Whenever I go to the my own doctor. They say how much coffee do you take? I just write obscene amount because I've down regulated by receptors or I've had the ability to ramp up my my livers ability to convert that coffee into an inert thing and there it is. So you see it as an anesthesiologist or as a crna. I mean, describe what your experiences whenever you try and put somebody to sleep using propofols, different medications.
Yeah, well, I mean, definitely, if someone says that they happen to be a large consumer of or a consumer of large amounts of alcohol, it generally takes anywhere between 20 and 30% more of an agent to put them to, to sleep safely, say, But back to your point of body habitus, for whatever reason, even just something as simple as someone being a redhead fair skinned, those people generally take more agent to make them go to sleep.
Yeah, let's go ahead and clarify this. This is a well known thing in anesthesia. You're not being prejudiced?
No, not at all. No, they literally just for whatever reason, the metabolism rate of someone who's fair skinned with red hair is typically higher than the average calculation and you can go through any types of weight based medications that we use to bring sedation to someone and generally fair skin redhead folks just take more.
Is that interesting?
Yeah, it is.
So that is more than just anecdotal like they've actually done some studies on this and they've actually shown probably because whatever lineage, they come from Scotland, Ireland, they have a higher P450 to metabolize that particular or a higher subset of the P450 systems. So just keep that in mind. So when you take certain foods or drugs, everything's competing for your liver, to do to just say, hey, fix me, you know, figure out what's going on. Fortunately, it is a badass organ and the liver is tough and it can handle a lot, the largest solid organ that we have in the body. So usually it can handle everything. Now the most common example like we've talked about, if you take grapefruit juice with certain immunosuppressants and things then that particular combo because those drugs need exact or how they were manufactured need exact metabolism numbers. Not only that, did you know that like nutrition plays a big role. So, high protein diet will actually affect your P 450 and malnutrition will affect it.
of course it will.
So those are all of our paleo friends over at paleo FX and such those guys have revved up p 450s. Eating a lot of protein working out a whole lot, they're able to do this. Unfortunately, malnourished people probably can't tolerate as much
No and they aren't they aren't they honestly they don't have the supply to rebuild the enzymes that are that are used within the P 450 I mean it's just malnutrition is going to deplete all different types of systems, not just the liver.
So in the intro, I kind of mentioned that we're getting sicker. And so let's use nutrition as an example. federal policies tightened by the controlled substance act of 1970 essentially banned the production of industrial hemp during the war on drugs effectively we made hemp CBD illegal and put it under the umbrella of cannabis cultivation. Now what were we were talking with Will Clyden of O-hi energetics right, who actually discussed this and he said some cool stuff on this. He back before this when they were they were using hemp and hemp has been used for ever like since we landed in America, hemp has been using hemp has been used in China for thousands of years and all this other stuff that we were feeding because it's a fantastic crop. It's it detoxifies the soil. And it actually works. It grows quick. It's a great crop industrial. What were we thinking making it a banned substance, I don't know, separate discussion. But they've got data to show that when they were feeding chickens, so for everybody out there I had a patient today who said I said Oh, she was suffering from some things and I think CBD would help with and I mentioned Hey, have you ever considered CBD Oh, I would never ever, ever, ever do anything like that. I am not like that. I said, Okay, that's cool. said hey, let me tell you something. Do you know that before 1970 we were actually feeding animals like chickens and cattle. One of the primary things that we would feed them would be hemp, and it's been shown that you can take a chicken egg and it had over 250 milligrams of CBD, right so right now if you're somebody that just spent $200 on your CBD that has 300 milligrams in 1968 you could've just had an egg.
A three cent egg.
I know 3 cent egg. And I looked at the literature and I and I could not find anything that said death by egg otoxicity. It didn't so everybody that's sitting there thinking oh my gosh, no. I'm not going to do CBD. We were having CBD in our diet. A great Great example, to learn a lot more about this and do a deep dive. Our friend Chris kresser had Will Clyden and the CEO of O-hi, O-hi energetics on and he went into this tremendously. It was so cool. It was just like I just it's crazy that we stopped like, and I as a physician have seen that we are getting sicker as a country. So in 1970, we've got since 1970. We've got more chronic disease, we've got more dementia, we've got more autoimmune disease. coincidence, like we said in the intro, maybe it's at least a contributing factor. And now we have the FDA saying that CBD can be harmful yet it was in our food supply up until 1970.
That's nuts, dude.
It is nuts. And it doesn't make sense and if you look at mean hemp seed, birds eat seeds, birds consume seeds, they do all kinds of things where they can they take in product, What's the matter?
No, I'm just looking at I'm trying to make sure we get through everything.
Okay good, but I mean they eat everything and people have been consuming eggs from not just chickens they've been consuming eggs from all different birds on the planet for that long. The fact that we've restricted hemp growth etc has only taken away one of the natural things that birds were eating.
If you're if you're really interested in this like I said go to Chris Cressors podcast where he's got Will Clyden on there is really cool wills smart dude Chris is super smart dude. So those guys those guys kick some crazy knowledge.
Right?
So that is it's weird that we're talking on this episode about CBD causing hepatotoxicity. And we've already shown that the liver's pretty badass, right? It can do a whole lot and we've already shown that the endocannabinoid system is necessary and since 1970, or up until 1970. We are taking in significant amounts of CBD in our diet
Right.
Weird.
It is weird, but it's not so weird when we get down to why everyone's alarmed. So you want to get into a...
Now let's go ahead and look at the studies. So that is sort of the phase one of this podcast because now we're going to start geeking out a lot. So I hope I didn't hope I didn't lose everybody with a but you kind of need that background to understand what we're going to talk about next.
Sure, you definitely that background.
Alright. So what they're talking about is the FDA published this revised consumer update. So this is the consumer update that they put out there for everybody detailing the safety concerns about CBD products. Now, this was based on the studies provided by GW Pharmaceuticals, GW Pharmaceuticals has done multiple different studies looking at different things to get their FDA approval. And I'm going to say right now, that kudos to GW for being the first company to step up and really try and make something for a group of people with intractable seizures have an alternative. Kudos to the FDA for doing their job and looking at the data that was presented to them. What I'm going to do is go next level and say, Well, you didn't look at everything. That's the bottom line here. So I'm not bashing anybody. Let's make let's make certain of this. Sure. So there have been several randomized, controlled and open label trials that studied the effects of epidolex, I'm going to call it epidolex from now on it's just easier, which is a 99% pure oral CBD extract on patients with refractory epilepsy. So this in turn led to the FDA approval for two diseases, dravet syndrome and Lennox-Gestaut syndrome. So if you recognize those names, bless you, because you're dealing with some serious stuff,
It's a serious seizure issue.
If you don't know those. Count your blessings. It's one of those times to go well, no matter where you're at in life. It's like well, thank goodness that I don't have to Deal with a child that has this because that's, that's a really big deal. These are intractable seizures. So they looked at the data on that. And in these studies, the kicker here is I'm going to say it again, getting back to the lane highway, the patients maintained on their stable drug regimen with a median of three anticonvulsant drugs.
That's important.
It's super important. Three anticonvulsant drugs. So when we use the analogy of the car on the road, imagine a six lane road. And three of those roads. Three of those lanes are double semis.
Yeah, that are closed construction...
Or closed, Yeah, that's more likely or closed.
So let's talk about that. So when we're talking about three different agents used to control seizures, some of those agents would be and I'm assuming here, but probably Depakote, probably Dilantin, also known as phenytoin, or fosphenytoin, which is seravex. There's a handful of anti seizure medications and through my knowledge, all of them, all of them have been recorded as raising the enzyme levels used by the liver which of course would lead to ALT and AST elevation, showing that the liver is essentially working overtime to long term process these drugs right or wrong?
Correct. Correct, which is exactly what the FDA is supposed to do. They're supposed to look at this data and go Okay, so let's just look at the study that they're talking about. So the FDA accumulated this data, and they looked at what GW presented GW presented in isolette of CBD, not a full spectrum. And the dose they ramped up to 20 mg's per kick 20 mg's per kick. What that means is a guy like me would take 1954 milligrams a day.
That's a lot more...
of CBD isolate. Now I see the effects, beneficial effects of taking KBMD health CBD 15 milligrams twice a day,
that's 30 milligrams,
that's 30 milligrams.
The exact dose of what makes people feel better is very argued because all the data coming out of Israel shows that a lot higher doses, but I'm seeing effects at these doses
So let's be real quick let's stop for context. So right now at this intersection what we're what you're saying is with a full spectrum and we said this at the beginning of the podcast that what GW Pharmaceuticals has with epidiolex is a CBD isolate and what they've done...
You're saying epidiolex now that's funny.
Yeah, whatever it is,
Well, because I started with that. Then you told me no, that's not how you say it.
I think we should switch it up the whole time. EPA max the way it was edimax. What they did is they were able to establish that almost 2000 milligrams for you would be the ideal dosage however, you...isn't that correct?
That's the dosage that they went for or the dosage that they felt was safe,
Safe. Okay, I'm sorry. So but but on the upper end of...
That was what they were aiming for on everybody.
In essence, though, from where you have had beneficial effects, you're talking 60 times that amount, two months worth, is what they are saying the safe level would be in one day where you're finding the beneficial spectrum. So just just in terms of context, full spectrum, CBD, one 60th of the dose that they're saying it's a it's a safe level is really all that you need from our experience.
Yeah. Now in GW's defense, let's look at the data. So in dravet syndrome, seizures dropped 39% and in Lennox-Gestaut 42%. So...
that's good.
So they probably did their homework and said, well, we need to get up that high to actually help that so I don't know anything about that. I'm not a neurologist. That's where it's at. But I'm just saying that when we look at that dose, no average consumer is going to be able to consume that Much CBD in a single day, unless it comes through this
2 full grams a day is more than most take Yes,
yeah. Now here's the problem 94% of the people had side effects.
Okay
94% at the highest dose compared to 75% placebo, kind of weird. So there's just a huge placebo side effect profile that doesn't get discussed at all.
Did they say what it just had a curiosity do they state with the placebo was for the control,
They did not stay with the placebo was oh, I take that back. I don't know what they use, but basically they left people on the same medications. So, essentially, let's just look at this and say okay, but the good news is, most of it was not a big deal. Most of it was what the FDA also discussed beyond the liver tests and beyond the drug metabolism. They also said Oh, CBD can cause nausea. It can cause drowsiness. It can cause all these other kind of nuisance things. That's what they're referring to right here.
It's interesting though, that have a side effect profile assigned to a placebo that's that exceeds around the 30% range, because that's generally the throwaway number.
Yeah.
So we've gone twice away from the throwaway number. And they've had they've had reported side effects, which I'm not trying to over draw conclusions here, but it could at least indicate that side effect profiles assigned to CBD in this study probably weren't solely to CBD,
Well, you're dealing with one of the highest risk populations you can get your hands on, when I did clinical research and when we would do a moderate to severe Chron's study. The placebo arm would have tons of side effects because the disease is bad. That's what's going on here also. So most was not a big deal, upper respiratory tract infection, somnolence, decreased appetite, diarrhea, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the one that they focused on is the increase in amino transferase concentrations. This once again was a revised consumer update, they put this out to the public and their statement is increase in liver amino transferase concentrations when I just got done explaining what the liver does. Did I ever say amino transferase concentrations?
No.
I said liver enzymes.
right?
frickin talk to the public if you're going to release a consumer paper.
yeah,
liver enzymes. AST ALT.
This is hiding behind scientific garbaly goop.
It's like you're doing half science half anyway. But but whatever. So a patient show up and they're like, I need you to check my amino transferase concentrations. I'm like, Whoa, why? They Hand me this, this, this news article.
Right?
This is what we're trying to address right here. So what they found is that in the higher dose, 20 mgs per kg, there was a rise in some patients in three times the level which is significant, so if your normal is 20. You can be 60 if your normal is 40 it can be 120. When patients come into me and it's three times the level it sounds alarming. Do you know what happens when somebody gets hepatitis A acute infection?
It's way more than that
thousands of times the level when somebody goes into foaming at failure there AST and ALT will go from 40 to 10,000.
AST and ALT have risen for almost everyone who's listened here, way more than three times throughout their lifetime multiple times in acute or in very isolated settings. It happens with illness.
So getting back to your highway analogy, which I think is really cool analogy. I'm glad you came up with that.
Thank you .
Getting back to the highway analogy. 80% of them were taking a drug called valproic
it matters
Depakote
Yeah, that matters. That matters a lot.
It's when you take these medications, which is why at the beginning of the show, I said you're more likely don't have to worry about it. But if you're on certain medications, keep it in mind. Now that being said at the lower dose didn't see this stuff. So there is a dose dependent usage of the P450 enzyme you can if I give you one drink, or if I give you a bottle of tequila 512 which in my opinion is really one of the tastiest, most fantastic tequilas you can ever get your hands on.
It is delicious.
It's delicious. I'm gonna I'm gonna digress right here. Oh my God, Tequila 512...
Also sponsored by Tequila 512
Tt was really good seriously, ummm in every single person with liver test rose.
They went back to normal if they decreased the anticonvulsant or decreased the CBD. So either one it went back to normal.
So it wasn't number one, it wasn't permanent liver damage. More than likely correct they were able to return back to normal. And number two, it was simply A case of an overwhelmed P450 pathway more more than likely.
So you want to get really confusing?
Not really but we might as well try.
I don't want to but here's what's really interesting, then they kind of get a little geeky. So GW presented their their stuff and then they showed that the P450 in this enzymes and they went into will, the CYP to, 2c19 CYP three a four can inhibit the CYP blah, blah, blah.
Those are all just cytochromes people.
Those are all just cytochromes It's under the umbrella of P 450. That's how complex this is.
Yeah,
It is nuts how complex. The highest plasma concentration to CBD occurs within two to three hours after exposure to the Epidolex. With medication, so timing of these medications going to play a role, which actually got me down a weird rabbit hole where i started thinking. We haven't done this much analysis on what happens if you take your Ace inhibiter and you take your cholesterol medicine, timing wise PK analysis on different people and everything. Because when they do these pharmacokinetics, they do it to get the FDA approval, they do it on people that are healthy, that they can understand it.
Let's put this into context again, if you're listening to this you've ever taken tagamet. Have you ever thought about when you take your tagamet, you probably only take it whenever you're afraid that you're going to have acid problems, right?
Cimetidine?
Yeah, guess what? It's also known as a high level p 450 inhibitor if it's over consumed. So I guess what I'm saying here is, there's probably way more alarms being driven over something that yes, is handled by the P 450 system, but is far less invasive or it's much it's a much smaller vehicle on this highway than some of the other things that the alarms are not sounding over.
And then surprise surprise after I just got done talking about the liver and the genetic variability and all these other things. When they looked at the pharmacokinetics there was tremendous variation.
Hmm. Weird.
Yeah. Odd, right? So and anybody that's listening to this that is a, a pharmacist or is a scientist or like Well, yeah, duh. Like I know, duh. But why put out such an alarming statement?
Yeah.
Without context.
Yeah, yeah, you're right. So it for Okay, so it's a little bit of clickbait stuff, right. And so maybe even the journalist who wrote it doesn't understand specifically, the implication, they may have only seen P450, written somewhere turned to a health care provider and said, What is this? Well, that's indicating that things are rising up, they freak out. They write a headline that says CBD causes liver failure. I just learned that from this health care provider. So I'm going to write this piece.
Well, that we're going to get into that. The liver failure. This is still just the FDA.
Oh, yeah.
To the consumer. So I hope that the FDA looks at this and says, You know what? That's right. All that stuff that was just being said it's right. But we didn't have the time to do it. We couldn't sit there put that on paper, we'd lose everybody. I get it.
It's quite true.
We all we all but we all have a responsibility, much like any doctor to try and explain. You and I have this ability to have this forum to reach hundreds of trillions of people.
Yeah. It eflects in our subscriptions on YouTube. They so many trillions of people subscribed, they started his back over to about 200.
Yeah, so every time we got trillions, they start back over.
Yeah.
So So anyways, so what what you're realizing here is exactly what we're talking about. When you put stress on the liver. The liver honks its horn and does a little rise and the lfts goes, Well, hey, guys, maybe not so much. Can we just back off the traffic a little bit and see what's happening here. So additional studies have shown that levels of the anticonvulsant drugs actually caused the daily effects. So now we start wondering that the that the CBD may actually rise some of the anticonvulsants and then you have more side effects from that comes down to the same thing we're talking about how many things do you want to tax your liver, that's the bottom line. To summarize high dose of a pure CBD isolate, not full spectrum, while using a mean of three other anticonvulsants can cause temporary rise in liver tests and affect the metabolism slightly of the anticonvulsant. Of note, it did not happen at lower doses. So one more time, if you are on an anticonvulsant discuss with your doctor and make sure that you stay well below the 2000 milligrams a day.
Yep.
So this whole thing of Oh We're going to block the P 450 the P450 is So frickin complex, it is nuts. So anything you want to add to that, because I'm going to move on to the thing that I really want to, like kind of make fun of
No, not really, I just want to say that I think that the FDA, unfortunately, is a very important and serious organization within our government. And I think that for all of the flack that they take their, unfortunately, with any other entity, there are limitations on what it is that they can do. And I do believe that they try their best to fairly ascertain and address situations as they are presented to them. Regardless of how frustrated that one of this may get is we don't get a result from them. A lot of it is just simply because there's not enough manpower.
Oh, absolutely. They get thrown everything think about, think if you're in an organization where you know that 70% of the crap that's out there needs to be pulled off the shelves and you're limited. It's a government organization. These people making these statements are MD's. I'm really limited fortunately, I have well, we have the show where I kind of enjoy looking up some of this stuff. Fortunately, we have some friends of ours that are that work in the nutrition industry that are fantastic at researching articles. And some of that gets gets brought to me I want to make sure that we all get better this is the whole purpose of this.
Hundred percent.
I want to help the FDA and help GW I want to help the CBD industry. I want to help all of it. But let's just talk about this because something super weird happened. And this is the one that got the most press A Forbes article came out that promoted a mouse study and made the sensational claim that CBD causes liver failure.
Yeah, that's kind of what I was referencing earlier. I may steal the thunder but yeah, you're right.
Yeah, so this is you're exactly right. In the intro, you said it was clickbait. I really after looking at this study after pulling the study, because how many people read that article are actually going to pull the study.
Well is the is the person who wrote this study that well versed in reading studies like that. I mean, that's that's an important thing. I mean, they I think that probably even the author of the article feels like that they are doing a service to the reader, but probably doesn't understand. And if they do, then shame on them, but if they don't, I think that would be a better explanation doesn't fully understand how to read the study and the quality and the qualifications of that study to make a statement like that.
Yeah. And you know, this, this could be an arguable point, I'm sure that the person that that wrote this feels very strongly that what they said was right, the bottom line is the goal of this study was to investigate CBD cannabidiol hepatic toxicity, meaning liver issues in an eight week old male mouse. So they they took a group of eight week old male mice, and then they gave them a CBD that they produced. The CBD that they produced and Will Clyden will just jump up and down when he hears this because he decided Is this on Chris Cresser's podcast. The CBD that they produced was used to extract using hexane, which is a molecule that is known to be hepatotoxic.
Yeah, you're not supposed to have heaxane.
Don't do that! Will Clyden talked about the fact that if you find a CBD with an outrageously high amount of of CB, if you find a full spectrum CBD with an outrageously high amount of CBD more so and the price ranges, okay? Because what they did is they extracted that with hexane in a cheap way and threw it in their bottle and said, there you go. Now you can check that's got 10,000 milligrams of CBD or whatever. And it's really interesting because there's so much going on in the industry like this. So this particular study out of the University of Arkansas, took the CBD, or they made their own CBD using hexane which is a hepatotoxic in itself and in their certificate of analysis. It was there and then they gave it to these mice. Second thing neat
I don't even know there has to be a second but we can hear it. Because I mean seriously, that's, that's like saying, I know your stomach hurts. You should take this Pepto bismol. And then I don't tell you that I've broken up some glass shards and have you drink it and you're like i'm bleeding now! What's going on? I'm like, I don't know.
Yeah, but you only paid half the price.
I made it myself.
Which, by the way, that last batch of propophol that you did in your bathtub is working phenomenally.
I'm sure it is.
Now we do not make propophol in our bathtubs.
Alright, so the second issue. If we have any mice that are subscribers to our show, or listening, I would like you to have your children removed from the room at this moment. Because they took these poor mice, and they gavaged to them. Would you mind defining what gavaged is?
I think it's when you kind of force feed somebody I don't think it's willing. That's your I think gavaged something you kind of threw one at me there I think to gavaged someone you basically introduce a funnel to the esophagus and well you kind of get after it, don't you?
Yes, I'm currently gavaging my mic right now trying to figure it out. I just undid everything.
You're gavaging our ears with your, your microphone adjustments?
All right, so gavage is they forcibly give these mice?
The CBD extract?
Yeah, I don't think it's comfortable nor pleasant.
No typically through a tube feeding or down the throat to the stomach is how they generally gavage things. A quick side note, now because I'm now all of a sudden I feel like I'm living in a glass house when I was an undergraduate student. I actually did my first surgery on a rat and we took out their adrenal glands. And I'm just saying that so I don't want to sit there and pretend like I'm not done mean things to an animal. But that was when I knew immediately I could not be a bench researcher. I did not like that. At all, now I was like, I need to,
I want to heal.
I want to heal. I don't want to hurt these animals, but it's it's a whole separate discussion. So anyways, so they gavage these animals with different doses, and it's really interesting. Now in what they call their defense, they call it allometric dosing, which means they're trying to get the body weight to human weight ratio appropriate. I've read some rebuttals of this article where it is a joke, you just can't do that. And when I read vitamin weed
Michelle Ross?
Michelle Ross, when I read vitamin weed she dis... she specifically discusses why research on CBD versus mice is very difficult to do because the weight basing the endocannabinoid system is different, all these other things. So allometric dosing being said, assuming that they're saying it's right, so the dose would be the equivalent of what they gave and What a human would give So I'm doing the allometric dosing, which I think is actually higher than what it actually is separate thing. They took mice and they gavaged them with zero milligrams of hexane derived CBD 246 milligrams per kilogram 738 milligrams per kilogram or 2460 milligrams per kilogram of dirty CBD.
It doesn't make sense
dirty CBD isolate. So for instance, in a horrible alternate universe where humans are now the test subjects and we have large mice which are running tests on us, and they decided to gavage me with the same thing. That would be the equivalent at the highest dose of 241,080 milligrams of hexane derived CBD isolate. I'm not even sure what the hexane would do it 240,000 milligrams 242,000 milligrams.
No I mean that being the more or less than now at this point, it's just an additive. It's just I mean it's it's not an excipient It's a straight up additive. That would not make sense at all.
Oh, it's crazy.
It's poison.
This article came out in Forbes and said CBD causes hepatotoxicity.
Also hexane causes hepatotoxicity.
It is nuts. Alright, spoiler alert. The mice suffered hepatic toxicity and death at the highest dose.
Shocking... You know what? I also hear it's bad to have breakfast cereal with not milk but drain-o. Just something that I'm gonna go out on a whim. Don't think you're supposed to do that. It just doesn't make sense. It's It's It's not. That is not an apples to apples comparison if you're talking Okay, so we talked about it earlier. reputable CBD source there is no reputable CBD producer that's going to have and Will special shout out to you it's going to have hexane as a byproduct or an excipient in their full spectrum COA approved
which is also why KBMD Health with powered by olyxenol
hundred percent
is does not have that. I mean they do co2 extraction, which is the important thing
which is a reason why we partnered with them to make that product. So we are the one out of the 23 or 24 that is the safe and trusted COA back no hexane etc etc. Doing this study is not an apples to apples comparison on what would happen because who knows? Who Okay,
I don't get it because GW we already did that study. They determined that 20 Meg's per kg which is still a shit ton.
It's a lot.
It's a lot.
Yeah
is the safe maximum dose. These guys went times it by 100.
Yeah, they did.
And see what happens? Yeah, it's it's a bad it's a bad comparison. I mean, yeah, honestly, if you wanted to find out if CBD plus hexane causes liver toxicity at a ridiculous amount, top to bottom, then that's a great study outside of that, since nobody does it, I would say it's a bad study. Speaking of road, that's a road to nowhere.
Yeah. And so study like this, uh, like you had mentioned is essentially it's not science. It's clickbait.
Yeah.
And right now that that author, that journalist is just kind of laughing. He's like, I know, and now you're bringing it up, and I'm going to get another whatever, because that's what people are trying to do. They're trying to get attention at this point.
So at that point, good for you, you got to click but I would be truly interested if possibly that particular journalists would say, you know what, I didn't fully understand it. I mean, that's okay. Let's look reading studies, right? There's there's a study to reading studies. I mean, we heard that we heard the breakdown that kresser did on Joe Rogan is he Twice had to address his approach to completely different topic about the the plant based diet and then how he had to re approach that with the rebuttal. All that just simply to say, there is a science to reading studies and being really good at understanding what is and is not applicable and then how to find studies that you can compare to each other for good meta analyses.
So what we're doing right now is I'm telling you that maybe sometimes there aren't studies, but my anecdotal evidence, I have a busy practice, you hear the patients, we hear them talk I listen to them, when they say that doesn't work. I go, Okay, I'm not publishing it. I don't have time to do that. I wish I did. If I published everything that we're gathering data on, if we're looking at, you know, just so many different things, CBD is just one of them. We've got I love I'm a huge fan of brain.FM for the ability to use sound to change your mood. I Would love to they're unpublished, a lot of studies on stuff like that. There's, there's tons of stuff. So when people go, oh, the studies aren't out there, there is something to be said about the Socratic method, or I'm sorry, the paternalistic method, the way that medicine used to be where the guy in front of you that saw thousands of patients, this is the method that he has. You see me scope, I mean, there's a difference in scope techniques.
So they, although some may even still say it qualifies as anecdotal, I will say that there's objective data in both in a scope, somebody can't just come, anybody can come to you say I feel better. Anybody can even if they don't mean it. But they can't make the disease disappear from the imaging that we see in their colonoscopy, or the the mucosal samples that you take. And that's something that's completely objective data. That we see. So those are the everyday results that we see from these types of applications where you just, look it's not made up whenever we okay full pleasure when we first started looking at CBD, I thought was bullshit.
Who you looking at?
Just anybody who's out there. But when we first started talking about it, I didn't believe it. I was like, man, let's see, because we've been down this road before but we tried new, new without throwing a bunch of things under the bus. We tried new or innovative different things and high hopes. And unfortunately, low expectations and the expectations get met and the hopes are never never realized. The opposite for me personally occurred with CBD over the last three and a half years. And that is it actually stinking works.
Dude, I knew that we were onto something with Atrantil, because after we did the initial studies, everybody came back and said, I want more. I knew that I was onto something or I was not on something. I knew that CBD had a viable place in my practice, because I bought and the story goes all the way back which is why we work with which is why it's powered by elyxenol right now, when we went to paleo FX, and I ordered a couple cases and I just gave them away to patients. That was not cheap. Not because I was sitting there trying to be altruistic, not because I was doing charity. I'm like, I don't know. I didn't. And I told everybody, I don't have a clue. I haven't even looked at this yet. All I know is try this. Tell me what happens. And when about 80% of them came back said I want more. And I went, Okay, we're onto something. And that's when I took my clothes off the deep dive into the science and went, holy cow.
Yeah,
this is crazy
Up until that point, I just didn't know there was a whole lot to it. I mean, it really didn't. And then the fact is, oh, and to clarify, it's not like Brown just handed out CBD to just anybody who came to the clinic. You literally just like we did with Atrantil you found very diseased patients to say and who had gone through a gamut of different pharmaceuticals and weren't finding relief, and suddenly they're like, this is working for me. Tell me more about it. And I was, I was blown away.
So let's talk a little bit. So we're I'm over here going well studies I haven't published and everything. Let's talk about a few studies. So I've got a Mendeley account, I know how to look at PubMed. I know how to get a Google Scholar, I just want to talk about a couple studies have come out recently. And let's kind of compare it and see if it still makes people concerned that they're going to die of liver failure.
Sure.
Alright. So in the Journal of Clinical Pharmacology published in 2019, the this was actually a study, also sponsored by GW Pharmaceuticals, as part of the process of getting the FDA approval that the FDA did not reference the best I can tell they did not reference this. This is way more complex and it gets super cool, because what they're looking at is the pharmacokinetics or how CBD is actually metabolized by that beautiful genius called a liver. In high doses in people with liver disease. Yeah, they went through the trouble to take high doses of CBD and give it to people People that did not have liver disease had mild liver disease moderate and severe. This was ballsy to say the least, because using a product like this in somebody with liver disease is is risky. This thing could backfire and it could shut down the whole process. Here's what's nuts, the pharmacologic and safety of a single oral dose of 200 milligrams of epidolex, which is the CBD isolate. They were assessed in subjects they had eight people with moderate or with mild disease, six people with moderate and eight people with severe and then they had this collection of normal people. Blood samples were collected to check for the pharmacokinetics This is how drugs are looked at. They give you a drug and then they check your levels. Basically, the blood concentration was higher in the hepatic impairment and they describe it in nanograms. So the nanogram comparison is that it's a little bit higher in those with severe hepatic impairment. But this is what's nuts there was no increase in adverse reactions. There was no change in blood levels. So basically, the only adverse reaction that they found was a little bit of diarrhea. And it all happened in the mild hepatic impairment. So the FDA had mentioned Oh, studies have shown that it causes diarrhea. What was really funny about this particular study, it was that all three people were in the mild hepatic impairment, which I don't get it at all And in the severe and moderate, they were all on other drugs also.
Sure.
So it should have done the thing that it did with the anticonvulsants.
correct.
But anyways, keep that in mind. So basically, no change in liver function in people with liver disease. As long as you take a moderate dose 200 mgs.
People who are already compromised didn't weren't made worse by using CBD.
The FDA didn't mention that one. That's weird.
Yeah.
Kind of odd. Oh, and then another one. They looked at the safety and tolerability of CBD single dose epidolex 1500 milligrams, 3000 milligrams, 4500 milligrams or 6000 milligrams. CBD was well tolerated in multiple doses. They even use 1500 milligrams twice daily for six days for six days, and a single dose on day seven, there was no clinically significant findings for laboratory parameters, meaning no change in lfts physical examination vital signs or body weight or anything else. So the FDA has this beef with a mild liver enzyme elevation in the file for epidolex. But even GW has these studies that shows that high levels didn't affect it as long as you weren't taking other anticonvulsants as long as you weren't blocking up the highway. You can handle this stuff your livers good at it. So that's really interesting to me. So even GW has these two other studies that actually show that even in hepatic impairment it did well,
You hate to say it, but I mean, come on, it looks as if it appears as if it's sometimes that to create an advantage, it's a it's certain intersections, people and or companies may hide a test result or a study so that a certain story is or is not said, and then put another one forward. And any one of those could be used in any of these scenarios. I could be wrong. They could have all been available, but it just doesn't.
In defense of that. I did a there If somebody took time they can find articles in 1970, that can rebute this who knows.
So I mean, this can go on and on. This is exactly what we were talking about when we were saying that
It's the quality of the study and is it applied correctly, because I think that this is far more applicable to show that somebody who's already been compromised with liver issues didn't suffer from the use of CBD which is way more important than giving somebody a tainted CBD substance with hexane and then eliciting liver failure
Yeah, in fortunately for them, they did not gavage any of them. All right, so this is this is where it gets really kind of fun. So here's some other articles that I that I pulled up. This is on my Mendeley accounts. My Mendeley is a repository where where our good friend, Rn, and nutrition that deposits all these articles and I can look at these kind of things. And when I get time to do this, and this was really fun to prepare for this because here's an article that is titled cannabinoids and the microbiota gut brain access now you know that I'm a huge gut brain guy.
I do.
you know that the KBMD box is there to protect the gut brain access. The title of the article is emerging effects of cannabidiol and potential applications to alcohol use disorder. Now, we had mentioned that alcohol could be a minivan or bigger than that. It's another vehicle tying up the lane tying up the P450 enzyme. CBD may influence alcohol use disorder symptoms through its actions across the digestive, immune and central nervous system, collectively known as the gut brain access. Notably, emerging work suggests that alcohol and cannabinoids exert opposing effects on this and other words, it doesn't compete with the experience of being a little tipsy. It competes with protecting your liver when you drink.
That's impressive.
So you can still experience liver but in this particular study, they showed that CBD actually hepato protective
hepato protective nuts and small study. I bring the next one up because as a gastroenterologist, I know how important your microbiome is we always talk about microbiome. This study is called the gut microbiome modulates the changes and liver metabolism and inflammatory processes in the brain of chronic, mildly stressed rats. So, fancy title, but basically what it says is that when your microbiome is disrupted, you can actually develop depression and further causes of liver metabolic disorders. So, in other words, a microbiome with dysbiosis CBOE, in other words, can actually affect your liver depression and anxiety. Hmm, kind of odd. So, looking at that, then they looked at a single dose of pharmacokinetic and preliminary safety assessment and the use of CBD rich hemp in healthy dogs and cats. So, I mentioned that the industry cannabinoid system is a cross, I guess I didn't mention in the beginning, it's across all mammals and vertebrates, but they actually showed it to be very healthy in animals. So CBD can be given to animals. So this all leads up to this thing. So now I've just kind of brought up a case where we looked at CBD in the setting of the microbiome, the microbiome in the setting of the brain inflammatory process. Now we look at cannabadial protecting against hepatic and reperfusion injury. So, this is nuts. CBD significantly reduce the extent of liver inflammation oxidative night in nitrate stress and cell death in bacterial endotoxin activation of TNF alpha production. So in other words, if you go into sepsis,
right,
and you go into what we call shock liver,
okay,
the study looked at cannabidiol protecting your liver during that.
Interesting all on also not nearly as bad as the hexane study before right?
And another article you're seeing the pattern here, like no these were brought up in the study Canada dial predicts liver from binge alcohol induced theotosis. Cannabadial has been shown in this particular study to help attenuate weather cannabadial can work as an antioxidant protect the liver from alcohol generated oxidative stress. Steotosis is fat in the liver, right? So breaking it down when you drink a whole lot or when you put on weight or when you have diabetes, you have fat in the liver that fat in the liver can then lead to something called NASH which is non alcoholic steatohepatitis. If you drink alcohol, it's alcoholic steatohepatitis. This study looked at the fact that it actually helped decrease markers and it gets real sciency. But all these studies that I'm talking about, are generally around 5 Mg's per kg. So every other study that we brought up that said it hurt you was obscene amounts!
So it's too much.
Can you give me an example of something that is actually good for you? That can
Oh yeah, I could do that. You mean would you agree that water is something that we all need?
I would agree that water is good for me.
Would you say that good clean water is safe trusted good clean, certified water is something that you would drink. Is that something you would drink?
Certified water?
Yes certified. COA water.
Can you imagine putting that through a gas chromatograph? Hey, I know you're paying for this but it's it's says
We detect hydrogen and oxygen.
So what I'm saying here is that that water is it's okay to drink we all drink water however, did you know that you can actually consume too much water? I mean, so if you have too much water there's there's tons of stories. There's even a handful over the last five or six years that people being hazed by drinking water and hang on a second. This isn't that long ago. I know that in PubMed, there is a specific Hang on. Here it is. It's been back in 2002 2002 in May great year by the way, study here death by water intoxication study in PubMed. So, with recent emphasis on increased water intake during exercise for the prevention of dehydration and exertional heat illness, there's been an increasing cases of hypernatremia which is basically the delusion of existing of sodium from excessive water intake. So essentially, these people were observed by taking too much water to combat their loss of fluids. But they didn't do it with the correct ratios of electrolytes. And they ended up with hydro encephalopathy and they died.
You're blowing my mind. Are you trying to tell me that too much of something that's good for you can actually be bad?
Too much of something that's good can be bad. I know like my kids. I like hugging on my kids but sometimes they're like Dad, I want to hang out my friends. You're gonna have to get out of the car. Yeah, but I mean, it's the same thing. It's Yes.
Why don't the FDA do a whole study on the...
Why didn't Forbes write an article saying that, that you can die from drinking water?
Oh my gosh.
That's the problem, though is we're talking we're not comparing apples to apples here. When we say that. CBD causes liver failure. Whenever we're not we're not disclosing that it's it's somebody who's getting way too much. These these poor mice were being gavaged also with hexane an additive. So same thing. So if you if we were to talk about Flint, Michigan water, that would be like a hexane situation, right? So we wouldn't necessarily consume Flint, Michigan water and say, you know what water isn't so good. Let's stop it. We don't use hexane derived CBD. In fact, for that matter, we don't use CBD isolate. That's not really something that we endorse on this particular show. So the quality matters, amount matters, intention matters and most importantly, context matters when we're talking about these subjects. Yes. I also think that if I were to consume 200,000 milligrams of CBD every day, then my body may say, I that's okay, that's enough.
We saw I was watching a, you know, we're I was watching a podcast on Rhonda Patrick, where she was talking about With a PhD on sulforaphane. Oh yeah. And sulforaphane is an incredible molecule that does amazing things. And he said it right there. He was like, Yeah, but of course you don't want to take too much because too much of this causes XYZ. Polyphenols, same thing. You can overdo the polyphenols
Salt!
Salt, anything you name you pick up anything the fact that you just proved that water is toxic.
Yeah, it is.
But now wait a minute. The fact that we said water is toxic. I do not want this to turn into idiocracy.
Don't drink, don't drink water. The Rondo president Camacho
Rondo.
Oh know you're going they're gonna play it's great. Electrolytes.
Well, the crops aren't grown because you're not using water. What's water? The stuff that we have in the toilets?
You mean from the toilet?
So, yeah, we're not in idiocracy right now. It's okay. CBD is generally safe. Don't consume 200,000 milligrams of it per day, and don't use it with hexane and don't have someone put a funnel down your esophagus to consume it. We don't sell KBMD CBD does not come with a funnel.
Eric, remember that music festival went to.. Hey man, what's going on over there? That's CBD bongs you just get underneath it.
That's our next ad. Our CBD does not come with the funnel. It doesn't. It's unnecessary.
The final one that I want to throw out there because clearly this research is already published. Some researchers looked at cannabidiol protecting liver against high fat high cholesterol diet steato hepatitis looking at different markers. There was that one and then the final one which is really cool. They looked at it was a mouse one cannabidiol attenuates palmitic acid induced injury they gave an actual hepato toxin, and then they had this arm and then they gave the other one seed PD and the ones that got CBD did better. So I just named like five or six articles that looked in detail at how CBD can actually attenuate some of the liver damage in common liver diseases that we experience
And in context with appropriate dosing. Right. I mean, we're not talking about crazy ass...
none of them seem very high. It was always now. Okay, now, don't want to go off on a rabbit hole. But let's talk real briefly about full spectrum. Yeah. So one of the things about this is, is that there's bunch of articles I mean, we could talk for a long time on this, but it appears that the flavonoids, the terpenes, and the polyphenols and a full spectrum, all work to actually protect the liver as well.
Yes.
And so different. I came across an article. Remember altran tales made of polyphenols I came across an article where it looked at how polyphenols were able to attenuate the P 450 system to offset different things. So under the P 450. We've got 50 different genes, we've got hundreds of different enzymes. If you take in polyphenols, it was shown in a couple studies to go, Okay, we're running low here. Let's come up high here. So, Mother Nature once again, in my opinion does it best, we can't just isolate something. And I'll say it again. GW Pharmaceuticals do an amazing job to help a group of people with really tough disease. And they spent a lot of money to get that FDA approval. That's cool. But let's keep everything in context. We there is data out there. So when I talk to doctors, and they go oh, or I'll talk to a patient and be like, Hey, have you ever considered taking CBD for your sleep issues ever considered taking CBD for your neuropathy for your whatever just because that there are and much like we discussed in our episode with with Khiran, about how there are studies to show like the ones I just talked to about you don't have to sit there make a claim. Don't say Oh, CBD, you know, prevents liver failure in this study in an animal model with palmitic acid causing liver failure CBD attenuated that in this study a decrease TNF alpha in this study. That's where it comes back to the science of this. So when we look at this, we can sit there and say that possibly a full spectrum still is the best vehicle to deliver protection for your body. And the whole concept getting back full circle, that CBD causes hepato toxicity. I don't know, have I had I changed your mind?
Well, you didn't change my mind personally. But I do. I do trust the process. I mean it. I believe, again, that that that author saw something that was glaring and seemed like something that they should put in front of people, but the truth is, is that that story was a microcosm and without digging in and understanding what you're reading That's really not it's not what we're it's not what we talked about when we talk about utilizing CBD. It's not even remotely what we're, I mean, when I tell my my kiddos I'm going to teach them to drive a car, you know, they're getting their license. My youngest gets his license here and only two months, right? So when I tell him I'm going to teach him how to drive a car and a vehicle and to be safe. It isn't a NASCAR. Okay.
We're gonna learn how to drive.
That's not what we're getting into.
Dad! There's a cougar in the car.
Yeah, I know Mack doesn't walk up to the vehicle I'm training him in and says, Why are we undoing a net? If we don't, we don't put on helmets before we get in there. It none of that stuff and I'm not walking to him after I'm strapping in and handing him the steering wheel to attach. Like it's all of those things. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about certified CBD. And if the appropriate dosages I'm not teaching my son how to drive over 200 miles an hour on a left turn on the track. No, that's not what we're doing.
Your analogies always crack me up.
Yeah, they're bad. But they're visual.
And what I've noticed is you're really stuck with the whole driving analogy.
Oh, I'm this is we're on a road to somewhere we're not on the road to nowhere. I mean, it's it's rather ridiculous whenever you break it down in terms that this is what I mean because we have people who wrote into the show we've had our patients who have come through, even if we think it's ridiculous The truth is it got out in front of people and it made people think and in a more serious approach. I do want people to feel better whether or not they ever buy a bottle of KBMD CBD to me is completely irrelevant. I want people to be better. And if they can be better than they should be able to do so with the right information and if they choose not to do it with CBD, I do want them to at least have the approach and the availability to have real truthful information. And unfortunately, my opinion that headline is not truthful whenever you take everything and weigh it and put it into context.
I mean, this gets back to and I don't blame anybody because how do you get somebody to look twice at something? You know, you log on there there's clickbait everywhere. Just happens to be this particular clickbait was was done by Forbes and I just think that there should be a responsibility to look into a little bit deeper. I'm a little bit confused as to the author to the authors of the study itself, where they sat there and said, how much how much should we give these mice? Like, give them 10 times the amount, and somebody says, Give it 20 times don't screw that we're doing 1000 times we're going gavage these mice and we're going to see what will happen.
I mean, you know, what could have been a mistake? What if a little time trader ran out of control?
Well, it looks like we had a whole arm of...
Well we don't want to waste the study...it's kind of ridiculous.
Just like...boss what to do with this, like, well, they all died. So
we gotta write something they are they are going to pay for the mice if we don't write something. But I mean, it's...
Jimmy, I'm up for tenure this year. This is this has to be published.
You do begin to wonder, but we could sit there and pick apart motives all day. And then that also is just an in the rabbit hole that leads to nowhere the truth is. How can you learn how to read a study and then if you don't want to waste that time, I feel like that what we are trying to do is be honest in our approach, and give a real dissection and lay people's terms that know CBD is not hepato toxic.
One of the things that really happens in these these articles kind of surmise that it's that to do a true in depth randomized placebo controlled trial on a human, where you have variables to try and take out is it's so labor intensive. It's so expensive. And it's one of the reasons why these drug companies have to invest so much money to get the FDA to say, okay, yes, you've done all the appropriate work. I went through that for, you know, 10 years ago and I was doing pharmaceutical research. You realize how much goes into it? You're like, are they ever gonna get their money back? Some of these companies folded mid study, they ran out of money. And you know it, they were trying to go that route. The other flip side is, and this gets back to what I really want my company D-hat to do I really want to do functional research, we call it functional or natural or whatever, we can put people on different things. I want to know if the KBMD health box over a three month period changes stuff and collect the data on that. What if?
Yeah,
I mean, I'm seeing it, I'm seeing it anecdotally. It'd be awesome. If we could sit there and do stuff like that.
Definitely.
And I want everyone to realize please share this. If you know anybody who's ever taken CBD, if you are in the industry, share this because I kind of feel like we did a neutral job of I mean, once again, I'm not really trying to bash anybody here. I'm just saying that the data can be delved nn a little bit deeper
Let us hear from you go to KBMdhealth.com and head to the show shoot us an email if you have a comment about it I would love to hear about it and if you feel like that there is another study that we we need to break down
probably more...
Let's let's do it.
I want to hear I want to hear if you have any compliments please direct them towards me if you have any arguments or complaints go to Eric
Yea do that. I'm really good about returning the email right away.
I'm just a really sensitive person.
Yeah, I'm not. So I've heard.
But uh, you know, and in fairness to to GW you did talk about the investment of what it takes to to push something through. Whether I do or I don't agree completely with their stance on on how they market epidiolex is is irrelevant. I do recognize that it did take quite a bit of money to fund studies and then to do so especially if you've got people invested in your company or publicly traded you have to make the money back. And so to protect yourself, you need to find something that's an active ingredient that belongs, quote, unquote, to you. And I know that that's more or less what they fought really, really hard to do. In my opinion, the isolate is inferior to the full spectrum. I can give some other examples of pharmaceutical companies that did that one I even worked for that we all thought that it's isolated melatonin was going to outperform naturally occurring melatonin and it flopped. It didn't do that at all. In fact, it was even shown in small studies to be 14 times the efficacy of melatonin it binding to the MT1 and MT2 receptor, but the truth is, it didn't make people sleepier it didn't work. It was just an expensive pharmaceutical prescription that didn't outperform its natural melatonin counterpart. So it happens. They're not alone. So I'm glad that they did the research and I'm glad that they fought hard to bring awareness to hemp products to solve these issues. But I still, I still believe that the natural full spectrum approach is still going to be where the better solution is.
So what that same thing that I tell all my patients because of what the FDA said, I still stand by some of what they have recommended. So if you want a seizure medication that has a narrow therapeutic window. Be cautious before you take CBD. I'm going to tell you if you're like, Oh, I want to buy your, your KBMD health CBD. If you're on a seizure medication, I really want you to talk to your neurologist first. If you're on a immunosuppressant, I want you to do that, just as I would sit there and say be very careful in taking grapefruit juice. Yeah, or eating grapefruits? Yeah, because it can do that. Now that if you listen to the first part of the show, you'll understand that the P 450 enzyme pathway is very complex and it can be affected by a lot of different things. In fact, we should probably have a more in depth conversations with these narrow therapeutic windows. Meaning that if you take a little too much Coumadin a blood thinner, you can bleed out and die. Yeah. If you don't take enough of your anticonvulsant clot and die, yeah, or Yeah, so the Coumadin, if you don't think enough, you'll get a clot and die. If you don't take enough or if you're, suddenly you change your diet. I mean, I just said right there, like I've learned a ton with this
That is spot on. So with Coumadin, suddenly, if you if you take Coumadin, warfarin, you're more than aware of this. Suddenly, now you have to pay attention to how much of the leafy greens that you eat every single day, especially with spinach. Yeah. And
Why is that?
Oh, because the vitamin K.
Vitamin K levels.
And by doing so, it, it inhibits the way that you can consume those foods and if you're going to change it, it's fine. You have to let your doctor know so they can check your INR and that way they can match everything back up. It's just illustrative that it does matter not CBD is so far from being the only item that might affect anything else. I mean, candy canes around Christmas time, we're going to affect the diabetic so they have to take more insulin. I mean, there's so many independent things that that aren't written about in Forbes, I guess is what I'm trying to say.
Exactly. I mean, even if you change your diet to a high protein diet, we realized that that will actually rev up your P450 and it may take more meds, it gets really complex. But the bottom line is, keep an open mind. Sometimes its clickbait it did exactly what it was supposed to do. And you don't want to know what thank you for doing that Forbes because it drove people to my office, I got a chance to look it up, dive deep into this little thing. And then hopefully this wasn't too much scientific information. We didn't geek out a little too much. But if you if you heard this, if you've got other questions about other things, this is kind of stuff that we love to do. This is what the show is about the gut check project. We're going to look at stuff. Check your ego at the door. Take an objective Look, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I get it. And I'm sure I'm wrong on a few of these points, if somebody was an expert and delve deeper, but this is what we have to go with.
Come join us!
And come join us and it just sparks the conversation. Yeah, this is this is just interesting. But all this other data is out there that nobody's talking about. These people that are doing these other studies aren't being discussed. Why not?
No I don't know. If you're ever really bored of the hobby and this no joke. Learn how to read a study. Learn how to learn how to break down a study you you may end up learning. Oh, my gosh, I thought all of this stuff before, but learning how to read the methods of a study will open your eyes to how unfortunately how quickly somebody can take some really superficial data and make an argument that probably isn't nearly as truthful as it looks.
When I was a medical student at University of Nebraska and golly his name escapes me. But for one rotation, I had a professor who initially was an epidemiologist and then became an MD. So he was obsessed with the whole stats. So he came up with a method to analyze a study, where you had to check these boxes he had a little card, you had to check these boxes. Was it randomized? Was the placebo controlled? Was there an intention to treat analysis? Was there? And then you went through and then what you could do is before you even read the study, you can go BS or not BS. Before you even started. It was really interesting because there's I can, you can do a lot with stats and an intention to treat analysis alone as a thing a lot of people hide behind. What do you do with the people that drop out of the study? So in these severely sick people, do you call them a win or do you call them a loss? So an intention to treat analysis is you're supposed to, I intended to treat you and you quit the study, you did something you never showed up. You just got the money. You just took the money and ran. And they don't include those. Like, yeah, well, so I've done studies before where the drug company will take an ad out. And they'll put it in the observer. They'll put it in the Dallas Morning News or do different things and Brandy and I were just getting random people showing up with ulcerative proctitus and they just had rectal bleeding, and we'd scope them it was like, you don't have that. And they'd never be seen again. Yeah. So it just completely skewed the data if they did an intention to treat analysis, because they're trying to recruit more people. And in the process, they're also losing more people. And when you do that, if you're a very honest researcher, it really messes with that because it's like getting, it's the same thing when you talk to your kids. If you get 100 on your test, or you get a zero, which one actually drives your grade up or down more and that's zero, just blahhhh.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, man, that was an awesome an awesome breakdown. I really hope that People like and share. This doesn't have to be the last conversation on how CBD works. Is it safe? Really, it doesn't have to stop at CBD. I think that we can continue to to examine these types of reports, whether they be sensationalized or not. And see where the studies come from the power behind because this this was fun and the types of conversations that we have with the patients who came through the clinic here recently were were about this and this is good.
Yeah, absolutely. So I hope it wasn't too much but it was something I really think it's important. Hopefully this can help some people in the industry hoping this will help the FDA hope it will help GW everybody involved in this whole process. We are all here to help each other. Keep that in mind. Everybody we've talked to is here for the benefit of human health
Hundred percent. Go to gut check project on YouTube or iTunes like and share, like and share. Check us out on KBMDhealth.com and pick your yourself up a bottle of Atrantil at either kbmdhealth.com or go check out lovemytummycom/KBMD and you got anything to add today?
No we're good. That's all good. That's a lot
That's Episode 26 I hope you all have a merry Christmas what do you what do you think?
I think it was great everyone have a very Merry Christmas Happy Holidays, Happy Hanukkah and whatever else that everybody celebrates.
All that stuff.
All that stuff so Oh really, really quick family doing good
Family's doing great.
All right,
We're gonna kick it at home for Christmas. It'll be fun and basketball, basketball, basketball,
Tennis Tennis Tennis
Y'all have a great, great Christmas, great New Year. Great holiday and we'll see y'all in 2020
Adios.
All right. Welcome back to the gut check project. This is now episode number 25. With your host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. I'm Eric Rhaegar. And can today we got an awesome guest, Michael Williams joins us.
Well, like always, one of the coolest things about the gut check project is that we check our ego at the door. And once again, we brought in an expert. And we spent the last two hours being schooled on some stuff that we should have been schooled on a long time. Exactly. We don't know anything about Mike. How you doing?
Pretty good. How you doing? You don't go by my hair. I go by Michael. Michael. See, that's what I did. I did it wrong.
Yeah. Well, the one thing that we've done wrong a lot is the lighting in the studio, the green screen. We're having fun with trying to learn how to do this. So as it turns out, Michael is an expert in video green screen. He has been doing this for a long time, and we're going to get into that. And if you're a podcast or if you like watching this stuff, you're going to understand that everything is not as quite as easy as it meets the
eye. You said something earlier like you know, Eric, one thing I really like is just talking to experts. Regardless of the field and that's what we're doing today.
Yeah, well we had the financial experts on we had CBD takeout we've done Marisol, the queen of Thrones who's interestingly an expert in pooping which but that's very separate from what Michael does.
But well I do that.
Well, interestingly, I know that will do quid pro quo on this. I happen to be an expert in that in pooping, not in lighting. So since if we should trade back in the day, you helped us out with lighting, I'll make sure you poop. Okay.
Appreciate that. Well, awesome. Let's do a quick rundown today. We're going to talk quick update on thanksgiving for all three of us. And then we have a new unboxing that we're going to share with everybody in the gut check project. Then we're going to hop right over to what Michael does best. Absolutely. So Thanksgiving, I I'll just go and start. I went over to my brother's house, Brad hosted we fried Turkey. We baked a turkey. We ate a lot of food. I had a blast. Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday. I don't really have Any crazy details about it we just we played games we hung out my family, his family, my mom, we had a great time. Why is it your favorite holiday? There's no pretense around Thanksgiving. You just it's family coming together hanging out and spending time we we bonded over some some athletic events, football and basketball. We watched on TV. We played games. The entire time we're together. You just eat great food. You get lazy. You wear pajamas. It's
nice. You know what, you're right. It's kind of like there. Michael, how was your Thanksgiving?
It was wonderful. We had our first Thanksgiving in our new house. So we just bought a house in McKinney and you know moved in of mccamey. Peru. Yeah. Okay. But, and we've been there just a couple of months and we had four of our kids there. So for a six right for the six. Yes, we have our six one on either coast, New York and Brooklyn and everyone in Burbank in California. And, you know, we think they could make I think I'll be here for Christmas. We ate you know that all the turkey and the green bean casserole and lots of sweets and then afterwards, retired to the backyard with a single malt Scotch in a cigar. Oh, that sounds. And you know, it's the only holiday that it's really you're expected to watch football so it was kind of fun. Ran
well I decided to not be quite as this particular Thanksgiving I decided that it was my time to take the family on vacation. And so we went to my wife's from Puerto Rico and we went to Puerto Rico but I chose at almost 52 decided to pick up a new sport which is surfing, because I've seen Point Break and you know a lot of others. And so as it turns out, it's hard, man, but it's rewarding now. So cool. So I took the family to Puerto Rico for a week and it was really cool, sat on a beach made some good friends and some Virginia people that were sharing the house. With us, and it was it was exactly what Thanksgiving supposed to be, which is be with family have some fun. It was not relaxing, like watching football, but it was relaxing, like drifting in the ocean. So it was super cool. And I hope that everybody out there had a great Thanksgiving as well.
Yeah, I hope so too. Hey, let's get to it. You want to get to the unboxing?
Alright, so let's talk about the unboxing. So why don't you hold up the box. So we're having some great feedback, what we've been learning. So in my clinical practice, I know that there are certain supplements that can change people's lives. And one of the biggest frustrations that people have is that they don't understand what to take. Well, we took it upon ourselves to vet certain science backed supplements, which have Certificate of analysis so that I know what affects people. So every time somebody comes into my office, they go, Oh, I've been taking this and nothing happened. What have you been taking? Well, let, let me give you the brand that I've researched and then they start seeing some changes in their life. So what we want to do is change the landscape of our community so that people become healthier. So every month, somebody can get a box called the KB MD health box, which is, comes with a little love letter and explains everything just like this. And what we want to do is offer products that can change your life. So Michael, for you, what we're going to do is explain what this box is, okay? And what this does is we want to make sure that certain things, protect your gut, help your brain help you sleep better, and if I can get those three things done, you're going to be a better person, you're going to be able to like crazy studios, you're gonna be able to do your movies and all that stuff at next level stuff. So Ericsson go through each product this month, this is just this month. unboxing. So first product, no mystery are trying to we talked a lot about it on sale. So we talked about that otra until a sponsor of the show our Tron teal is my baby. We developed this specifically for one of the only products which has been proven to help with bloating. But not only that the polyphenols in it helped with anti aging and anti inflammatory processes. So we know that everybody needs to be on this, you're going to be seeing a lot of information about this, about these molecules in the future. We're cutting edge on this super proud to have this in the box. Retail Price Is $40 3995.
Save a lot. And the cool thing that that letters you get to see how much yeah, so
basically what we're getting at here is that the total cost of this box is about $270. And you get this sent to your house every month where we free at a fraction of the cost of $147. Awesome.
Also another core product megaspore
Thanks for probiotics, so megaspore probiotics, so this is very confusing for people everybody comes up and asked me and they go, Hey, I'm on a probiotic Which one should I be on? I'm going to tell you one to be on a spore based biotic and what that means is that the probiotics, almost all of them get destroyed in our digestive tract, right? Because everybody says oh, they're good for me, but they really never make it to where they should be. We met kid on Krishnan who is the CEO and scientist behind this, we actually did a whole podcast with him if you want to geek out and look at this super cool stuff, but spore based biotics Plus Ultra and teal are synergistic, and they actually help diversify your bacteria. Brilliant dude. Next one is upgraded nano magnesium. Oh my goodness. Alright, so nano magnesium. A lot of people don't realize that we are actually deficient in magnesium and it's needed for cellular health. The reason why I love magnesium, because the nano encapsulated here crosses the blood brain barrier, calms your brain and actually helps replace your cellular magnesium, but helps you calm down in your brain so it's used also to sort of wind down at the end of the day. Next one really cool looking bottle. This is the Zen blend. So, Zen blend Zen blend is a fantastic blend of scientifically proven mushrooms. To help do exactly to augment what the magnesium is doing Reishi core topsis and a few other natural cow is in a Zen blend that helps you wind down at the end of the day. And a recent Joe Rogan episode where he had What's his name? Oh, the mushroom expert. Paul Stamets, Paul Stamets was talking about these specific mushrooms and how we all need to be on this for mental health and neuro regeneration. It's a
brilliant episode. This
is a this combination alone is absolutely insane. Because I'm on it. My kids are on it, everybody's on it. This actually helps you calm down deal with the world. Help your gut already and you start regrowing neural regenerative processes.
Next one, turmeric and ginger,
turmeric and ginger. We know that turmeric has been a staple of a lot of functional medicine people people take tumeric all the time. What's unique about the omeka Organics brand that we made a deal with here is that it has ginger omma and a few other ingredients that actually work to increase your nitric oxide, which Veysel dilates and allows you to absorb the tumeric. The ginger allows gastric movement of this and the omma has been shown to actually improve insulin sensitivity. So no joke. We've actually found a company and every one of these companies, we've talked to their CEOs, we've looked at their certificate of analysis, and we know that it's backed by science. If I'm going to take something like this, I'm going to help my insulin sensitivity. I'm going to make sure it gets absorbed. So that's one of my favorite versions of that.
I mean, if you're an athlete, this is looking like a pretty solid box.
Or if you're type one diabetic like I am, Oh, looks
awesome. Holy cow. Absolutely. You're type one diabetic
type one diabetic for almost 40 years.
Yo, you're doing a group Great job of controlling your insulin because, or your sugar I'm sorry, because Type One Diabetes is a tough disease, autoimmune disease where these products we are now seeing that autoimmune disease starts in the gut. So this is one of the things we're trying to do is help all kinds of people but autoimmunity is one of the things that we're trying to fix. Also, believe it or not, we still have three
products left what
the hell we're
done, we are not finished. Live wise naturals.
Alright, so live wise naturals. This is interesting because it's something that I really have not thought about until my practice. Almost everyone I check is vitamin D deficient. And now we figured out that being vitamin D deficient is related to coronary vascular disease, dementia and autoimmune disease. Yeah, yeah. So all my Crohn's and colitis patients, all my ulcerative colitis patients, they all would I always check vitamin D and I always make sure We're up on that and the reason why is because we live in a society now where we put sunscreen on everything we are indoors. We've got fake lighting going on right now and we probably just don't get enough sun and in our diet we're not getting the proper ingredients that are there. So almost everyone is vitamin D deficient.
The next one I believe is straight from New Zealand The Balm of Gilead manuka honey stick
Alright, so this is the one I've been waiting for. And here's why. Alright, so manuka honey has many medicinal properties. But I put this in the box this month because we're heading into the winter months. You can see on my lips I am chat chat chat. So I've been waiting for this one so I can do the rest of the show. Because he's applying it is literally I'm applying it to my lips right now. Because manuka honey, this is straight out of New Zealand and you'll never be able to find something like this here with it actually has real stuff. Remember when you get on and you start looking at Walmart and cheap things. You get what you pay for bottom line, like lighting,
green screen effects and whatever. You know a cool thing is if you order from us and get a kBm D health box, every single stick of manuka honey is applied to Dr. Brown's lips first.
Yes
that is my signature. It's like welcome back this one
that is not true that is a true freshman who got me got a seal on it and everything but the whole thing about manuka honey is it actually has a tremendous medicinal properties. This is actually a vegan version, grass fed all this other things you know, I said these grass, grass fed vegan vegetables
no but it's the distro and take a look at it. It's it's fantastic stuff.
The next one I'm going to go ahead and kind of hijack it because there is my green pills, which is awesome. If you're interested in having healthy products around Your home. My green fills is an all natural laundry detergent refillable laundry wash. So if you don't want to have more waste, you can order mail order from my Greenfield. And in your box you can have your very first container sent to you with laundry wash. And the cool thing is is whenever you need more wash, they just send you just this packet. You save this you just add water in our house Murray subscribe to my green pills almost two years ago. Kids love it. Your clothes smell clean and fresh. That also comes with a rinse. It's it's a beautiful thing. You save water you save a waste, and you basically save the environment we're on a septic system is this basically protects everything that we have.
So two quick things. Number one, I'm probably wrong on that particular maneuver being vegan. I don't think it is vegan. I think it's a tallow grass fed tallow balm. So if you're vegan, it might not be Good for your butt or you want to use it, but that is my that's probably my misstep. But the most important thing is here with my green fells. We know this the CEO of his company, Mr. Stephen is out and the things he does for the world. He has the my angels. Oh, yeah. What is that? The guy, Stephen, I apologize if I screw up the name. But essentially, he uses proceeds from this company and two others that he runs. And what they do is they take some of their money, they have a charitable arm, and they specifically go out and find women who've been victims of the slave trade. they negotiate with their captors, release them and then give them employment. They don't just free them and say, well, you're free now go find your way. No, they they actually will hand so the dryer angels that you write to the function as an all natural fabric softener whenever you subscribe to my greenfields It's a beautiful program. Stephen is a huge philanthropist. And he is Yeah, he started his whole business when he had nothing with knowing that the first 10% of everything that he earned would be going to charity. And now he is actually driving and he's the one that came to us and he's the one that's powering the member box. And that's why we're so honored to be involved with somebody who is so charitable, giving back and helping lives day to day but bottom line is the KVM D member box you if you take this, this is what I take every single day. The manuka honey will probably change out when it comes springtime, we'll find something more spring related. Eventually we're going to get to a point where we're going to have the perfect mix and change the health landscape so that people like Michael, that chronically deal with tight you know, issues like type one diabetes or anything, we can start making a difference in their life
kBm D health box calm that's kbd health box.com you can order your own health box this month. This is what's featured In the in this current month if you were to sign up, like and share, like and share not only the gut check project like it should just this episode to tell someone tell a family member or a friend, I want you to start living better. Check out what this box is about, save some money delivered to your home. You don't have to think about it. Everything's been vetted by position you, Dr. Brown, and essentially, let's, let's start off the year 2020 on the right foot, and we
got one last little bonus with that if you become a member of this. Oh, one other thing that I think makes a huge difference people's lives is CBD oil, yes. or full spectrum hemp. And if you become a member, you get steep, steep discounts. As a special gift to get our CBD oil, you get a code that allows you to get it dirt to
dirt cheap at KB MD health. And if you've been to the website in the last 11 days, 10 days, you've seen that the store is now fully operational. We had an incredible weekend. Thank you for everyone who participated in Black Friday, Cyber Monday. That was fun.
Are we going to start with discounts there? I don't think so. I mean, we want we don't want cost to be a barrier to entry for people to have quality CBD. So one of the things that we want to do and our mission is not to just say, Oh, the whole reason for having this box is so that we can get these quality products out at an affordable level. We just want to make we just want to change lives. I want to be like Stephen as well, and I want to make a difference in the world. That's the primary goal here and I believe that we are all Endocannabinoid deficient. And next week, when we talk, I'm going to get way into this FDA statement where they're saying we don't know if CBD is safe. We don't know this and that. I've got all the data on this and it's really fascinating. You may even be a two part show, but that's going into that so keep in mind that everyone probably needs some CBD. We're going to give you the best quality CBD at the best price action fraction of the price right and all of these things delivered to your home so that we can bring health to your home. That's the first part of the show. Now the coolest part,
our guests, our guests again, this is Michael Williams. Now Michael, you told me before we got started you have your own company called creative eco correct? I do I do based in McKinney, Texas, as to McKinney. So tell us a little bit about it.
So creative echo is what I like to call it a micro agency. So I've been in video production for quite a while when we get this mic in the right place. Usually I have a wireless lava
video guy. I'm a video guy. I'm not a radio guy. But But
why do I feel like he just started the show with I came down here to your really rinky dink
So, yeah, I was sitting there working on the Star Wars set and somehow I ended up here
I like a car battery lights and
So you guys called me to come down to you know, kind of do some consulting because I do a production video production maneuver about 30 years and, you know, back 16 millimeter three quarter all the way through the digital age and now finally file based digital, you know, so I worked as a graphics operator for live news, hated that get type and then became what I call paint monkey I started doing paint graphics and you know, animation doubler paint system, which is eons old, and then got my first Mac and 1988 I think it was the one yeah, it was it was a two X and actually was doing non compressed video in and out of the Mac in 1988 frame by frame, but it was not compressed. Is that still floppy disk and just as it didn't have floppy disk, okay. Yeah, the three and a half floppies. And you know, scuzzy to Loud chattering thing but and then hooked up to a regular tape deck and broadcast tape deck and we go out frame by frame by frame by frame and I was out putting animation from agencies you know all over the US getting them to tape sending them their video tape so they go into video production post production and actually cut their animation into their spot or whatever they were doing. Sure. So you know I did that for a while and then started my company when I got that Mac I was in post production at the time doing the paint work
to back you up a little bit. Were you educated in this at that time?
Yeah, I actually have a Bachelor of Fine Arts in video and film production and
so this is so they actually had that degree were there you were there really hard on the back and all that.
We didn't have Mac I mean the Lisa was out when I was in college but you know we did they were dedicated systems and you know, for very good, but
what is the lead? I mean, I feel like
Lisa is like one of the first production max that hit the market. Okay, and then you get the bat classic the big square box in the two X, you know, it was about this big that all heavies about anchor and you know I had a one gigabyte hard drive and my system had eight megabytes of RAM. So that was awesome back then
I'll just slow Yep,
yeah but i mean i'm sure then it was fast
then it was it was state of the art there's only a couple of these in the country you know with a new VISTA card in it and being able to pull in component video non compressed. So it was a lot of fun. And so you know, I've been in production for quite a while and now I have the what I call the micro agency because I've been given away creative I'm a creative at heart. I'm technical by necessity, but I have a you know dichotomy every morning I wake up and which brain is going to win, you know, the creative side, the left to the right side, you know, and I can set up roll anything technically just about any piece of equipment in production. And then on the other side of the camera and then produce something fun and creative and you know, meaningful that, you know, tells a story. So
when you're doing the productive side, does the creative side start kicking and regrow, I see where this is going to end up.
And without a doubt, I mean, I never lose sight of the creative, you know, the creative vision. And you just technically you want to learn how to augment that vision and make it better, you know, and tell the story better. Nobody's gonna do effects. If it's not telling the story, you hope it's not helping tell the story. So it's like you're
a director of a movie every single time you do any ad roll anything,
pretty much. So I didn't mean to pop that there. But yeah, so I will step in as a producer, a director. I'll get behind the camera as a director of photography, and then I'll pull the footage and avid an added for about 30 years and do all of my cutting, and then do some of the compositing there or jump in After Effects, do some multi layer compositing and turn it out to the audio design. And push it out encoded and away we go. So that's on the production side of things I do a lot of live streaming will go into corporate places and we'll set up set up a multi camera and live switch with video roles, you know audio stingers music I mean a full production and what live switch it and away we go.
So you said that you had if I understood you correctly back when you were in the in the early stages of before you started creative eco You said you did live news.
I worked at Fox News that's where I was first hired out of college was it channel was a channel four then
it was actually down in Houston. Oh down in Houston. Okay, what's a tale 26 Okay, hey, okay. Alrighty. So I'm just kind of curious, leading to what you just said that you've done on the creative side from doing the lighting and seeing the vision. What did you not like about doing live news compared to now doing a full creative production what was what were the limitations and doing a live news broadcast compared to this
alive news by Cast, everybody has a single position and you're an expert, that single position, you know, and it takes a crew, you know of people, obviously your director, your technical director, your producer, your camera guys, your audio guys, your graphics guys, and you know, all of the research that then goes on way before that and leads into it.
I mean,
I do a lot of different things and I, you know, I get bored easy. So if I'm sitting on a camera, I'm gonna sneeze, you know, if it's multiple days, day in, day out. So I like to jump around and learn and I've been learning for 30 years and you know that that was why I got out alive is plus I can't type fast so and I was a Cairo operator, which was doing the live CDs, you know, that show up right here in the lower thirds. But it just wasn't creative enough. And Funny enough, it was the same format, the same grind, just different content. And I like to change things up a bit and have some fun.
So let's see the reason why I was asking that questions. It seems to me that what you did is the evolution of where everyone is intuitively going to get their information. Now, when I was growing up, everybody watched the news. My parents watched the news in it. I don't really know anybody who really watches traditional news like they used to certainly not in the same numbers, certainly not by by percentage or capital, right. So you left the stodginess in the in the like you sent me is almost sound like you were describing a sterile environment for the way things were represented in now you're creative in what you want to do. podcast, people turn to podcasts more than they do traditional new shows. It's it's really interesting that that was what you just did, intuitively, on your own. That's what everyone's doing.
Exactly. And it's interesting because this this kind of shows the level of knowledge it's actually required to do something at the level that you're now doing things. So you have all these people that want to do YouTube videos, you have all these people want to do things we brought you in today, and you start looking at the studio and You just went, Okay. So this is why it doesn't look as good as it should. And you started going into such detailed analysis, which is so cool, because really what I want this show to be, is let's talk about the technical aspects because a lot of people want to say, Oh, I want to have my kitchen show for even my prank, hundred audience, whatever. So let's start breaking this down a little bit. Let's start looking at what we're dealing with here, what you changed up and the simple changes that you made for the lighting.
Okay, so when I came in, and of course, we're using what we have. And we've got some LED lights, we've got four LED panels, they they're probably about 400 LEDs at that at 300. Looking at them, LEDs per unit.
So before we get into that, let's just back up a little bit. Remember, Eric and I, we came from spoonie studio that was all set up. And we had so much fun doing that we got such great feedback from everybody. We're like, let's just keep going but it's been Eric and I tried to do this and Well you know what maybe we should bring in somebody like Michael who actually kind of knows and so he came in and looked at what we have and okay. The greatest thing you said was let's let's work with what you got.
I mean anybody can set up a studio you know he got he got a budget man, you got a real budget you can get, you know, real life real cameras, you know, you guys have great mics obviously. But, you know, on a budget, you can still set up a pretty professional looking studio. You know, if you don't have the money, the hundred hundred 50 bucks per light, sure for the LEDs. You can go to Home Depot, get a lighters, a Pinterest lighting kit, you know the little aluminum with a little clip on and then get a compact fluorescent daylight. That's the keys. You want it to be the same color temperature and 56 K or daylight is what you want. Otherwise, you're gonna look orange, and you know what's the balance of that? But you get one of those bulbs, the brightest one they have you put it in there and get two or three of those, light it up and you can do that for 3040 box you know,
so if I'm a so if I'm somebody that is starting out with my podcast, or I want to be a YouTuber I want to describe something by can go to Home Depot and you're saying Say that one more time it's 56 K.
So what you want to look for is your 56 K is 5600 degrees Kelvin, which is the light temperature of which sunlight is roughly a shade is a little bit lower. And then you go all the way down to the old school, the amber looking lights, you know, your mom and dad's lights as they're watching the news on live TV. Nobody's using but those are, you know, either tungsten or incandescent, but burns at a much lower temperature and it's warmer, brighter, the light, the more blue or white It is so and you can produce in any light temperature as long as they're all the same. If you mix it up then one has color orange or red one parts can be blue, like we set up in here and tuckson and we open the window blue lights going to come in
Reno is the interesting thing that he did. I mean, you gave us credit for thinking about backloading. That's pretty much where amount of your knowledge guessing knowledge stop. And then immediately you got you started drawing diagrams about how you're going to make light angles cross and cross each other to even out. Right. So
the issue we had here is one of real estate, its space sure we don't have the space that we need to, you know, create a nice, your piece of trust or something to hang our lights evenly at the same distance from the green screen for the background. So we had to go to the corners and then light across and to get it as flat as possible so that the green goes away and whatever you want goes there. So we cross the lights and it evens it out a little bit. And there's still some hot spots, we spent maybe less than an hour You know, coming in and looking around and say, Okay, let's make this work. And you know, it looks pretty good. There's a couple of hot spots, but for the most part, that Greedo key out one click, and you put whatever you want back there.
It's pretty sweet it's it's really cool and I think it's pretty sweet when he came in so so where do you guys train at I'm like I'm a button doctor
oh boy calls his wife says honey I'm gonna be I'm gonna be a little later and I thought
I was about so when I leave here
why why this field
my wife asked me that every day because it is not a nine to five job you know we get up at the crack of dawn we drive to a location we set up in we bring the truck all the stuff to set up and then we film all day and you know of course golden hour is you know, really our right after sunrise and you know, the hour right before sunset. That's the best lighting of your shooting outside. So we're shooting from you know, dawn to dusk, and then we gotta break everything down and pack it up and drive back so not a nine to five my wife's like, could you just be you know, a dentist or a CPA or something stay home. Yeah, I
there's Dennis and CPAs going. That's pretty much my
Yeah, so, but
I'm trying to think of jobs now that like are just, oh crna That's it. That's the one job.
But it's a lot of fun and and I tell people, you know, whenever they ask, you know, why do you through a six I haven't worked a day in my life. You know, I have so much fun. I love what I do. It's different every day. The topics are different, you know, I'm worrying about you know, gut check and you know, and that's important to me being a type one diabetic, you know, it's like, everything is based on metabolism and you know, you can't metabolize anything if your guts not working right so you know, it's your I go hang out with a helicopter and film you know, do air to air filming or climb up 200 feet on the tower and 200 feet out on your big crane and, and then heights. No, no, I'm kind of an adrenaline junkie. Oh, and then clip in and lean back and a camera and film The guy talking to me who's out on the Yeah would be fun. That was a lot of fun. And so I never know what I'm going to be filming
so you actually don't actually carry the cameras and stuff. Are you directing it? Are you are you
It depends.
Are you that on wall guy that
Netflix
sat there and I actually
I can't sit idle crew I drive him crazy because I hire crew and then I go do it and but
it's like you're hiring them to come watch you.
I always admired the people that got the camera shot more than the person doing it. You watch Bear Grylls do his stuff.
Yeah,
climbs trip just like there's somebody up there already filming you. That's
fine. Bad is bad. Yeah.
Or they're doing the terrain like down a steep mountain where there's where there's snow ski, and you got
somebody else don't even have poll.
Exactly the real hero to everything is The person that gets the shot
yeah definitely camera man or you know the unsung heroes of production
yeah get to the bottom of the run these posing and you look at the camera guys missing a leg shot
I love you.
But yeah, like I said I started out as a graphics operator I thought I wanted to be a digital artist you know, I wanted to be an artist some sort and when I went into college, I want to be a starving artist. So I got a technical background and then started editing and fell in love with editing because that's where the story is really told you can have horrible footage and a great editor and come out with something that's pretty darn good. And you got great footage and a horrible editor and it comes out like crap that has no job.
So the editing, I actually so I downloaded Final Cut Pro 10 you know to try and do some stuff with ABS and with zero training and oh my gosh, like all things it is it's so frustrating and You just you just get immediate humility. Anytime that I try and do anything that somebody else is really good at and you're like, oh, wow, I know what I can do. I can do a rectal, really good. But beyond that now I don't know.
Yeah, well, I mean, it gives you tired head you look at it and then after a while you get frustrated because it you it's not nearly as intuitive as you want it to be. Right. Right.
And not not right away anyway. Yeah, I mean, there is a deep learning curve on any editing software. Yeah, it's gotten so much easier. It wasn't a past.
Yeah, what you're talking about it with the equipment you were using and what they're able to do. I was thinking about this when you were saying that I'm thinking of movies now that I watch. I was like, Wow, those graphic effects can Assad and you realize they're pretty amazing for the equipment that they had?
Oh, yeah,
a lot of those without an optically you know, with film up until you see, you know, digital was there but not for film quality. And do you know you could get on a flame or fire your discrete logic big system you have the size of refrigerator the computers and onyx in get all in stock frame by frame but you get up to K images. Now we you know take it off a micro SD card drop it in a way we go, you know, a lot has changed and it's got a lot a lot higher resolution and a lot smaller form factor so makes you know, your creative vision easier to to maintain and keep focused on instead of having to worry about too much of the year. You remember Terminator?
Oh, yeah. That was a huge fan favorite for my my friends and I growing up was Terminator one. And then when finally Terminator two came out with the T 1000. And it became it was already animated. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I didn't even know what to think. I remember seeing that and looking back at Terminator one saying I love Terminator one, but I don't know what this is.
And this is amazing. That is a great question. So as somebody who's an expert that has been from the beginning and you you continue to evolve Which is also very fascinating to me because I would think that a lot of your people that were doing it with you back in the day have probably gone on to different fields. You're probably one of the few people that has stuck with the industry for 30 years and grown with the technology.
Yeah, there's, there's more of a thing you might think but you know, a lot of people will move on or just, you know, move into something different. But, you know, technology is definitely definitely changing. You've got to keep up with it. Are you going to get lost?
So as a as an editor, what movie when I asked you what is your favorite movie that you look at and you go from a technical aspect? This is brilliant.
Well, there's I don't have one favorite movie.
But there are there are several if you want to go back to one of the classics, you know, Citizen Kane, I mean, look at the the editing they did the opening scene where they push through a window. How the heck did they do that back then, you know, it's like you know, there's some music videos out there that are single shots. No editing just a single shot the whole time real time Yeah. It's I think was Madonna was the first one to do that. And of course you know Guy Ritchie
all that's rise,
you know her bow at the time and you know, so he was doing some cutting edge stuff, but I don't I don't know don't quote me that he actually directed that but i would assume so but
was the movie I'm sorry to interrupt but what was the movie that had? Was it the Birdman or something that was like no or yes for being it had something special about the way that they filmed it. Michael Keaton Michael
Keaton I'm not real familiar with the verb I didn't watch right
yeah, I think it was one take I think it was one stream or so I don't remember those shots I'm only didn't show
the whole movie but yeah, they really kind of embedded that and you know, it's fun to be able to tell the story and not have to cut away you know, to be able to just because we don't cut we don't blink and Okay, another shot. Yeah, we turn our heads we move. We will as Humans that's more natural for us to see the world that way. So it's, it's interesting that people are finally getting back to the way that human eye perceives reality rather than forcing your brain to take the story you want them to you. So you're cutting away to something you want them to see rather than turning and showing them you know, the way you would normally turn with your head or something like that.
Well, what's also fascinating about this is because of the YouTube phenomenon, the the non commercialize the non the non perfected type videos like our podcast,
yeah. Well, they're there. They can be more authentic. They're raw.
Yeah, they're real and they're not overproduced. Which you know, you can over produce things very easily.
Okay, so that brings up a different point. So with your production company, you probably run into all different types of different requests from customers of all different hills. High End corporate, low end a I just want to make a quick video. Is it hard to explain Blame to the over corporatize customer, hey, you really need to inject some personality here. Whether or not they take your advice could be completely different situation. But do you find that that's that's difficult to do even in today's world where that seems to be what people read
without a doubt, you know, it's all based on their personality, and it's not something they do all the time. They're not a TV personality. They're not a radio personality. They're a CEO of a tech corporation or, you know, whatever, and you gotta pull the stick out. Sometimes, you know, you being that kind of doctor, you got to pull that stick out and let them loosen up. I don't use
sticks in my job. everybody listening, please don't worry that I'm gonna use a stick.
You're pulling out little little loosen up a little bit. Yeah, that's
never loosens everybody up when you go to sleep.
But, you know, you got to get them loosened up and you got to get them to forget about the camera and the environment and then just talk to them. You know, I have You know, CEOs will come in, they'll have a script and they're, they're ready to just regurgitate that script, like, okay, let's read through it. And I'm like, do you know teleprompter here, you know, what's that? Like? Okay, well read through the script one more time. And we're gonna put down. It's like, No, no, no, no freak out like, no, we're just going to talk about it. I'm going to ask you questions, and you're going to respond. And we're going to get the real story, not, you know, something that's been too legal that we have to go through the legal later. But, you know, at least it's from the heart. And it's real. It's authentic.
We were, I've, like we were talking about before Eric, Eric's father. Well, but I didn't actually tell you about this. But the reason why Eric is so good at sound is because his dad was actually involved in radio most of his life. And so Eric was around this and enjoyed it. And his dad taught him and he was a musician and Eric's a musician. And tell me about that real quick. Oh, yeah. I mean, that my dad
was, he was grew up in Gainesville. And my dad when I was by the time I was born, he was the sports Director for the small kgs radio station which is still there today. And he also was a DJ out there at the radio station. He had plenty of friends all throughout DFW there were also in radio, dad played a self taught piano, drums, bass guitar, and he just, he was a true audio file without ever using the word. I mean, he's loved it. And so whenever he would toy around and tinker with stuff and mix with sounds, I just thought it was cool. Didn't have any idea. I was getting an education on it. And then within this opportunity presented itself and there's a lot of fun. So that's something when you when you say things that you never really worked a day in your life playing around with stuff like this, to me is just, it's fun. It's sick people that say like to tinker and this is just Yeah,
and I get to do it. You know, just about every day. It is a lot of fun. And there's a lot of hard work that goes all of
us. All of us are not working but one of us is getting paid.
That's right as consultant
But
so you know, technology has really enabled anybody to, you know, kind of pick up a camera and, you know, do a webcast or podcast or you know, even you know, cut it and don't do it live, you know, you can post it later.
So we, we've got a lot of different experts that they can talk to to help us both with the podcast and in a whole bunch of different facets. So one of the people that helps us with this show Now, of course, there's Ron Phillips, who's been on the show before. And then Paul Rogers is the guy that helps us cut and basically create promos, all the stuff that we're not any good at. And Paul does a fantastic job. He's really been helping give us some different guidance on how to move through topics and sometimes you don't stick to it all the way but we're trying to and but Paul is actually helping put together a package for a small city in North Texas to help, record and transmit their city council meeting. They were ready to throw down something like $100,000 on equipment and Paul's like, okay, you could also save $90,000 and let me help you with that. And it's amazing because you're right, the technology really is not that inaccessible anymore. No, not at all. And it's crazy because people just want to spend the money thinking they're getting the best and
brightest and it doesn't want that. So if I am a I'm an up and coming YouTuber, because I saw this fantastic stat where it's like Generation Y like 30% of the kids want to be youtubers is
there I want to be YouTube famous or famous, Snapchat famous or you know, whatever the whatever. Snapchat so I guess waning a little bit but Tick Tock or whatever knocking whatever is all the rage down, which is musically rehashed, I think but
so it's it's fascinating because Eric's Eric's kids gage and Mac actually were taking classes during high school on Final Cut Pro Which, which is what the class that his high school chose to do. And so now kids are coming out and they're learning this kind of thing. So as an expert seeing all of it, I'm a, I'm a dad. My kid is graduating, they've kind of done pretty well with playing around with different things. I want to give them a graduation present, which would be an audio and video package. Let's say less than $2,000 What would you do
the laptop in that or no, no, no, no, they've
already already got a laptop
and something you know fairly. This just so that you can sit
there like I'm thinking of gates. I'm thinking of the dangerous off to college. He's done a great job. They've got a they've got their the floaty thing, what's the drone?
So they've got it. So the
only thing would be a balloon. Yeah
in my generation anything we got off the ground was a floating thing
that floated a flag that says that's a fly dad it floats defies gravity to defies gravity. So whether you're a drone or a fly, right, throw a rock for all the same. So if I'm going to sit there and give a graduation present, we got Christmas coming up and you say, Listen, my child's really into this. They're kind of doing some small YouTube videos and stuff like that. Where are what would I give them like as a package gift, and I know I'm putting you on the spot here. But like if you didn't get all
your children, I would get a good either DSLR or you know, the new mirrorless digital cameras are awesome. And make sure it's you can change out the lens in that way you can grow into it. My personal favorite, Michael pop and again,
my production never never actually showed up. So
my personal favorite would be At this point in time yo cannon five D but that's more expensive the body on that you know three grand oh but you can get something I mean they shot house several episodes of house you know with the Canon five D and we can put them in places that you can't put the other cameras here the big
oh that makes sense so that like you got this you can come in here
and it's just it's just a great format you know of course I'm a Canon guy I've always loved canon, more so than Sony but Sony makes a great product says Panasonic you know I've got a Panasonic camera that I use for you know EMG production but we get something that if you can has an interchangeable lens DSLR type and they're gonna become cheaper because the mirrorless are out. And so maybe a wide angle or fixed 50 lens. And my favorite lens on the five D is my 7200 L series beautiful lands you get that nice soft that the field gorgeous lands. You know, but again that's a more expensive plans.
No no fortunately we're sponsored by all these products you're talking about. Yes. Yeah.
So just to recap so I would get you know a the best DSLR you can afford with you know, a decent lens and you can get one that is wide enough that has a zoom a little bit so you can zoom in and get different focal length. A good microphone. And you know, you could get a
What do you say good microphone attached to the camera or you mean a lapel mic
on what they're doing, you know, for a podcast, you know, these are great studio mics. If you're out in the field. You might want to get a wireless love or a wire, you know, boom or shotgun mic. You use different mics for different environments for different reasons. But just get road makes a great cheap mic that will hit on the on the hot shoe, plug right in the mini and it's not bad. It's a shotgun mic right on top of the camera. Very, very affordable. And then you know, maybe a light kit depending on what they're doing. They may not Don't need it but lights you know, it's all reflecting light, you don't have light it's going to reflect nothing and you're not gonna see any more black so you gotta have enough light and as we found out earlier that was your issue with your green screens earlier is that you didn't have enough light on the green and you know that wasn't enough. I guess Chroma difference. So is
so is there are there are there light kits that come with multiple lights and you can do different things.
Oh yeah. And you know, LEDs are wonderful. Now we didn't have the luxury of using LEDs. When I was coming up in production but LEDs, you know, it's a small form factor. It's super bright, you know, you can even go to Walmart or Home Depot or any Batteries Plus actually has some great LED panels that are battery powered. And you get a little skinny arm which is you know, a quarter 20 thread that can go in the hot shoe or you know on the camera or clamp on and you can put the light up here and you got to Gun light. very affordably.
Even. That is so cool because if the the number of lights that we have in here right now to get this amount of light back 20 years ago, we would be sweating.
Yes. Oh, without a doubt. Yeah, I mean it would be incredibly hot in here if it weren't because of the heat on the I'm sweating
by the way. So
what is what you say? Yeah, it would be worse
Yeah, I refused to like you know, everybody raise your hand like no no way.
Well, and then wait, final thing. So now Okay, so as a dad,
graduation gift is the expensive camera. You talk to the uncle that says Look, this is this is kind of thing we're dealing with. He's graduating. Why don't you do the lights? Why don't you know aunt Karen, you do the mic. And then what are we gonna do to video edit it.
So there are some good software's out there. You can get some cheap, almost free software. out there some of you know, but you get what you pay for. Probably I would say the best bang for the buck because you get a whole suite would be the Creative Cloud, you know, just do the Adobe Suite, get the production bundle so that you get Premiere Pro, which is a great editing software, you get after effects, you get Photoshop, you get Illustrator. I mean, depending on how much you want to pay per month, you can get the whole suite and do whatever you want. You know, they've got you know, soundbooth they've got, you know, all kinds of different tools, and you're paying like 59 bucks a month or 50 bucks a month for that. That would be the best but to go out and buy something you know, I'm an avid guy, Bill and Avid Media Composer. It used to be $100,000 on a system and then it came down to the price point recently and it was like two grand for the software and they just recently have gone back to The same model Adobe is with a monthly subscription is about 30 bucks a month as well okay? But there are some out of the box stuff depending on your Mac or PC. But the main thing you want to look for, you know is your edit interface you don't want to think about what you're doing you want to cut a story and just kind of have it the you know, just very natural you know, the whole way that the layout is the way you know the premiere let's see your change your your edit desktop, you know, avid wants to change your desktop. I think you leave had some real super cheap stuff, these come with the DVD stuff, and you can cut on that even you know, the iMovie you know, on a Mac, you can do some things there. Certainly from the presets because everybody uses them and you know, my my opinion over use presets and overused graphics just because you think they're cool is kind of
cheapens it thinking what kind of it doesn't have to be graduation gift. I think we kind of a cool thing. It is Your children are going to be using this technology anyways, your children are looking at YouTube, they're already interfacing with this, they're already looking at this, then if you give them the ability to tell the stories that they want to tell, then you can start directing. Hey, we're going so and so's getting married. Why don't you cut some disco and bring your iPhone, just cut some film and then you can edit it, you have the equipment, bring the bring your road might bring your light, then you can start having a documentation of whatever you want, in a really cool way because everything that I have right now is just snippets from from the phone. Right and, and I and I have all these old I mean, I evolved very quickly when things started changing. I've got little mini cams, I got HD, whatever DVDs, and yet I've got, as Jim gaffigan says it's very funny. He does a whole set on. It's like we don't have photographs anymore. We just have hard drives, like Well, there's my hard drive from Disney World. And that's my Wedding harddrive and that that's where we're at right now. I'm like oh, but if you can convert things to little snippets and movies this is the two minute thing because if you're good at it and fast at it when you give a gift like this to a family member that actually uses it yeah you're buying memories.
Oh yeah. Without without a doubt and most of us you know, we you know, probably probably about your age but grew up in the era where you know, is either film or is video Well I know we're
the same age because the jokes I'm saying you're the
so I mean, Christmas morning we wake up and you know, dad would flip on the super eight boom and then the lights come on. Boom. And we're like blind we're getting a headlights Yeah, we'll do something like I can't see any turn up lighting see spots for an hour? Yeah, yeah. Now you know, it's like you can you can if you get the footage and you never use these ever watch it you know it was on film you got to develop it and it's at the in the middle can for years and which is our family and recently a product of five years ago, maybe 10 years ago, digitized everything from my parents 50th color to music and, you know, did one, you know, a little segment for each of my siblings and for myself and then you started my parents and then you know, went through the whole family and all the way through there, you know, from literally black and white shot in the 50s on film, all the way through, you know, digital, almost so he was on that's cool. Hey, you know, and it was fun. It was a lot of fun took forever, never discount how long it will take to edit especially a project like that.
Oh my goodness, a trust me that's that's the thing. That's why learning how to edit it. edit anything in a rapid way is the key. When you sit down to about the equipment when you sit there and say the lighting and everything. That's what everybody focuses on. When everything shuts down, and it's on your computer and you start looking at it. Eric has watched me and Paul will laugh at this who's who's helped me with through this I didn't realize that there's a lag when it comes to the way that we're recording and the audio and I will sit here for an hour and try and move a soundbite a millisecond so it matches so it doesn't look like an old kung fu movie right where Eric and I are talking like I'm telling you that wow
yeah there's I mean depending on how you record and you know, you're recording you know, from your camera and you're running it into your laptop and running it through software and then it's running and running the file to your hard drive. Of course there's going to be some latency there you know, there's going to be it's not going to be real time there might be some audio drift depending on how you're recording and how your format is set up.
So this was the but when when he first showed up and started talking like this, he's like, Oh, I can see what's going on right here. You can have a little bit light drag over here. We need to change this in this room have audio drifted, you can have lighting I just went different language. Yeah, totally different language you have a you have a skill set. That is unbelievable. And I love that you've kept this passion for over 30 years you said yeah for over 30 years and I've thank you so much for coming here and helping us set this up and hopefully be easier for Paul to post edit this and yeah
yeah you probably got some help
so we can you know we set up pretty quickly and I didn't have time to tweak but it should be a lot better than it was and of course we do have some environmental issues but yeah, space
you knew where you were in trouble I was like okay, where are the makeup people?
Yeah, yeah I always carry in makeup mean it's huge because if you're sweating and shiny I mean nobody wants to listen to you you know you're just You look like a shifty you know sweating bullets and you're like nobody's gonna believe so get some you know some corn silk so just a little powder and not know
what's up. Go check projects that shifty as Dr.
Careful,
little power. I mean little things like that go a long way and little cheap
little powder goes a long way. We tried that once with Eric and it all got cut his upper upper mustache here and I'm like, Eric, you don't look like you were trying to hell and then I inhaled I caught it all out.
A little powder. But what's the beard? Right? That's right.
Well, Michael, thank you so much, Robin. My pleasure. This was this is only our 25th episode here on gut check project. But each episode, I feel like we're getting stronger. And now that we've, unfortunately had to try to build her own studio. We're we're learning
Yeah, and let's just go ahead and recap here. So what I think we learned what I got out of this episode number one is that we don't know a whole lot about there's experts in this field. But Michael, what I took away from this is is that you just gave a recipe for every father or mother to say my child likes to watch this. Now have a box that I can say, look, pull away from the computer, walk out into the world and do it yourself. Yes, start interacting with people again. Because that's one of the biggest things as we automate everything, and we isolate ourselves. It just leads to more and more of that depression and anxiety. And even though wherever, you know, even my children, they don't watch TV, but but though they have the YouTube people they watch and they've turned me on to some great YouTube people that I love some science stuff that I just geek out on, like, holy cow, and and of course, I sit there and I don't just watch it. But Lucas looks at me. He's like, isn't that cool? I was like, how did he edit?
Yeah,
I just look at that. Go. What? How did you get that angle? How did they zoom in
like that? That's crazy. Man. That's a cool point, though, too, because the technology and YouTube and these platforms aren't going anywhere. So what basically what you just said what Michael is just described on how to do it with that recipe is OK, so the technologies now going anywhere, how can I help my kids and my family members get back into being a human with
back into being a human with this technology? One great way to do it is to put a mic in front of somebody and say, Michael, tell me about yourself.
Give me Give me your story, your story. And you know, the great thing is that, you know, they're used to being in front of a laptop, and they've got this digital world. Well, they've got their little digital security blanket and a camera, you know, they that's their
digital security behind so cool. It's so cool. You can sit there, give a gift to your introverted child and say, Look, you're really good at this. You don't even have that. People like being on camera. Yeah. So you can take somebody and say you're behind the camera, you're protected. Ask a question. People like to tell their story. And when you start engaging like that, then you can turn that story and you can make them look like a hero after editing and go back to them and say, here you go. Yeah, this is your story. You become the hero you control. What's going on, and you now have the ability to interact with people, people come to you and go, that was so cool what you did. And now as a parent, if your child is being a little introverted and stuff, you can sit there and teach them how to come out of their shell with a camera.
Yeah. And it inspires creativity, you know, have fun thing to do is we gave my daughter I think she at the time was like 10 or 11. If we gave her my my five D, and she said, just go film some stuff. Let's have some fun. And she took around the house and shot all kinds of random weird stuff. And she's like, well, I want to make a perfume commercial. Perfect. Yeah, we didn't have Johnny Depp but we had this random thing. And it was it was awesome. Together 32nd spot and there's a lot of fun to see inside your kids brains. When you're not looking. You know, it's like what's going on in there. I had a lot of fun. That's cool.
My son a few years ago had to do a commercial and you can do it like either written or recorded or whatever. And I came home and they showed me He got my daughter involved, my wife involved they wrote a whole script. And I just came home to watch the end product which was unedited. But it was so funny to watch that and so and it was so well done for an iPhone just right, right clip clip clip, quick time put it together. I was so proud of that. And I just looked at I was like, that is a family moment. Everybody got involved. It was cool. But almost family moment I had to work so that they could afford to do that. That's a whole separate that's pretty much the theme of my life.
I understand that.
But that man, I like that. I like the whole idea that we just came up with right here. Yeah, you know, engage the put everybody so the Joe Rogan recent podcast with Joe Stanek was it? Paul? Paul Stamets Paul Stamets. So it's all about mushrooms and Sol Simon and a few other things. If you don't know anything about that listen to extremely wild. But he said the coolest thing ever, which was, the thing is, is that we are in a competitive world. And if everyone became a little bit more enlightened, a little bit more accepting and a little bit more willing to learn, then we would grow exponentially as a race, as opposed to what we're doing now, which is I'm trying to beat you to the next hurdle, right? But I try $10 think of where we could grow exponentially if everyone had the ability to go you're a really cool person. Let me pull out my digital journal and let let me learn about you
know, which which is well it is it is a digital journal, Colonel. So, one of the things I would recommend is you know, we shoot this and you know, you give to your kid they go to college. What
time they go
now, my phone
That's yours.
I don't know how
we get this turned off. It's on silent.
That's the weirdest thing. It sounds like it's coming through our sound system here. This weird does.
Yeah, I've got nothing running here. It
is coming from here. That is so weird. That's awesome.
Yeah. So the cool thing about video editing.
What mostly happened is my wife got into my Spotify account and it started playing here on Spotify on at home or my daughter more likely into that. But what I was gonna say is that, you know, you could go off to college and you shoot all this footage and they're gonna run out of space, you know, so I would recommend you get a Cloud account of something and have them upload it because then you have access to it. If you give him a hard drive, you'll never see it.
Yeah. Have
them upload it and you're paying for it. So say look, I'll archive it for you and then you've got access to that footage.
Yeah and I think now we're just I've been finally finally got my foot my kids phones. We talked about that a couple episodes ago and you having unlimited storage now with the iCloud is Oh, yeah, dirt cheap. It's it's not it's like, I mean, it's just I don't know where it's all going. I don't know. I mean, I keep thinking that like SpaceX is going to go, we're hitting data, we can't get through it too many pictures, right and stand the whole cloud thing. Someday we're gonna look up we won't be able to see sunlight, right? Just gonna be
a bunch of ones and zeros all over the sky. Right, right. We don't do anything about it. Well, I do know that you need to go. But we've had an awesome show here today. I do want to remind everybody to Like and share the gut check project. certainly appreciate everyone. The new website will launch at some point December we thought was gonna be before Thanksgiving, but that's not how websites go.
And most importantly, we're one of the few places right Now that you can actually purchase CBD online, Greg has there's been, as everybody's probably noticed, they're popping up all over hard like in buildings. But the reason why is because we went through all the meticulous process to actually have the ability to sell a vetted, CBD full spectrum hemp product called kBm D health CBD that we've got Certificate of analysis, I see the clinical benefit with people. And we are giving tremendous discounts because we know people need it. This is much more about us helping people much like you, giving this kind of advice to help people to have great video editing. We want to make sure that everybody ultimately has a better life. That's what the gut check projects about. It's about trying to improve lives.
Definitely don't forget to do you want to connect without drawn to it, you can go to love my tummy.com forward slash spoonie if you would like to learn more about the kBm the health marks go to KB MD health box.com or KB Md box.com. On the above take you there. If you'd like to connect with Michael Williams and creative Echo, is there a place to get rejected?
You know, my go to creative echo.net and you can find out more about what I do and you can book an appointment or you can get my email or any other contact information. So
that's also creative echo.net not calm, creative. echo.net connect with Michael Williams. Thank you so much for being a part of our 25th episode, like and share a gut check project. Thank you all very much. Once again,
thank you.
Thank you. I appreciate it. event.
See y'all soon.
Alright, welcome to episode number 24. This is the Gut Check Project with your host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. I'm Eric Rieger. What's up man?
Man I'm super excited we are going to do this together.
Yeah.
Here we're starting to work the few kinks out we had that really cool episode that we did with SurePath which is just gonna be launched and then Dr. Marisol which got launched last week. We're getting some really cool episodes building up here. So I thought that this could be an episode where we circle back with each other and get reconnected. You know, I mean, I'm still recovering from you abandoning me when Dr. Marisol came here and I was alone.
Yeah, I know. I was I was knee deep in talking to tons of dietitians up in Philadelphia. And so that's okay because up there they like cigarettes. I learned a lot of cigarette smoke and Philadelphia along with cheese steak but it was it was a great episode and of course since we've been at the new studio we have had CBD takeouts Jeremy kender. We've had Dr. Marisol and we've also had Patrick Brewer as well as Tim power of SurePath and now we're going to experiment with having a reconnection and talking about some research.
You know, what was really cool about that having Tim and Patrick on, that they're just so freakin smart at what they do.
Definitely .
And I'm so stupid in that world, that that's, I'm you know, it's just being around people that are specialists in that field. It's really cool.
And that gets me, man, honestly, it's really cool to hear somebody else who has, it really is it's a holistic approach to how you handle your finances and your money. And so many people get caught up in the race of making sure that they have their work, their job, their family items planned out that the last thing they think about is how well am I making certain that my money is not only secure, but working for me. And if you haven't checked out Episode Number 23 with SurePath that is actually a great primer, whether you use them or not, be sure you take care of your stuff. It’ll, it'll take away the stress.
It's so interesting when you start thinking about money and how money can create stress, or the lack thereof can create stress. And in fact, you know, forget that I have a lot of friends that have sold their businesses. And then suddenly the stress of what do I do with this money pops in which most people would love to have that problem, I get that. But even that in itself can be an issue. And so then you have the fact that money plays into this. And any type of stress can affect your intestines, your guts, whatever. And that can lead to dysmotility can lead to all different kinds of things. So we want to act like we have all these different fields and we want to act like that this is my such and such guy. This is but really we all have to be together. Because if my finances are going south, I'm going to be stressed out, I’m not going to sleep well. It’s gonna affect everything. And if your gut isn't good, and you've got the resources, you're not going to enjoy it, because what do you have if you don't have health?
Yeah, no, you're exactly right. And I would even go even a step further when, when I was just getting started off on my own and Marie and I just gotten married and you don't have a lot of money back then. It seems like stress was a little bit less because basically, let's face it, that extra hundred dollars, we knew what it was going to go to, it was already kind of spoken for. And so you, you kind of knew where your money was going. And then as you build your career and you a little bit larger, and you don't really stay in tune with what's happening, that's where the stress comes in. So having someone help you plan where you're effectively using your money, regardless of your income is a huge stress relief. You don't it's never too early to turn someone like that.
It's so interesting that everybody always talks about the simpler times the simpler terms, but when you're in the simpler times, all you're doing is looking forward to the time when you can actually not sweat the next bill. So this kind of comes down to that whole aspect of just living in the moment.
Sure.
Just be true to this. I'm in the moment with you right now my brother.
That's right
Just in the moment.
So we got big news before we even get into research. What happened today?
Oh my gosh, this is so exciting. So in the CBD world, everybody's being jerked around by having these processors where the banks won't do this and we got a website we're having trouble running these different credit cards and stuff. Today we actually got a processor square processor.
We did and and for those of you who have been loyal and allowing us to manually process when your credit card doesn't go through because of various bank rules, it all ends this week. We've got a new website, we've got a new processor, no more of having to chase around to get that kind of stuff going and we got cool things are going to come because of it. Black Friday specials Christmas specials, you're going to be able to get KBMD CBD trusted, certified, etc. at a breakneck cost. What am I trying to say here at a, at a breakneck cost doesn’t make sense...
I always think about breakneck as speed but yes, you can have this CBD sent to your home at a breakneck speed. At a substantial savings because we have been so excited to get this out to everybody. When we sit there and talk about CBD, one of our sponsors KBMD health has CBD, we also have Atrantil, my baby there, the coolest thing is those two things work together. I talked to so many people and every time I meet somebody, they're like, Yeah, I don't really understand that. I see all these stores popping up and I try to explain it. Here's the bottom line. You have an endocannabinoid system. This system, if you live in the United States, you have a very high likelihood that it is not optimized
Right.
All this does is allow your body to bring you back to balance Everybody tries to make it too complex. Everybody tries to make these claims. That's not what we're going for here. My role is to get people to just get back to their balance. And then we can work on the other issues. Because it's an uphill it's a complete uphill battle. If I'm trying to fix your gut, and your anandamide a fancy scientific term of one of your own endocannabinoids is not at its optimal level. You're not going to function that way. So everybody says, Oh, I want my thyroid to be this, oh, I want. I want to make sure that my adrenal glands are functioning and my cortisol, I'm telling you, you're chasing your tail, because if your endocannabinoid system is not optimized, all this other stuff, and all this money you're spending on supplements, probably is not doing nearly what it can be doing for you.
Definitely. And so this particular episode since it's scheduled to be released on a Thursday, that's next week, and that's Thanksgiving. So this is actually going to be released at the early part of this of next week. So this is Thanksgiving week. Tune in KBMDhealth.com. We will have black FRIDAY SPECIALS running through the weekend all the way until What do they call it Cyber Monday? We’ll have specials exclusive to KBMD health shoppers. KBMDhealth.com. Tune in, save money trust the source. It'll be KBMDhealth.com.
KB as in boy, M as in Mary, D as in dog, health.com
That's correct. Go there. Check it out. And well, I couldn't be more excited for everyone who's who's helped us get this far.
This is it is so much fun to have this transition. I personally like the whole live aspect and I think that will eventually go right back to live once we get all the all the kinks worked out because we have to understand that we're we moved the studio Special thanks to all the people at Mojo and Spoony that have come over and helped us and helped us set this studio up but I love the fact that it's so convenient because it's close to my office. And I'm selfish that way.
Yeah, it's the same drive for me regardless. It doesn’t really matter.
But one of the things, I want to start interacting with our audience a little bit more, and one way to get them interacting is to really just give them silly discounts. We're going to unleash this physician recommended CBD at a breakneck pace with a breakneck price.
That’s a really bad adverb I threw in there.
Lots of neckbreaking. I don’t know where...
Cuz I think I'm Busta Rhymes or something. I’m not really sure.
Not a very good not a very good adjective or adverb, whatever the right word for that.
Well, anyways, this is super exciting. This is very, very cool that we can sit there and get this physician recommended CBD in the right hands of the people that actually need it. So that the people that want to hear some science, and I want to, I want to interact with our community, so that you know, share it, share this podcast, share this idea, share this email that we're going to send out If you actually subscribe to us, we really want everyone to start getting back to balance. That's the bottom line.
That is the bottom line. So today what is it? Oh, hey, what are you drinking their?
A little hop tea? We had this last week on the show. I love this stuff. We gotta we have to find these guys.
We do have to find those guys. I think that they're out of Boulder, Colorado. Luvich if you're listening help us out on that. So hop tea. Free plug hop tea. Good stuff. So...
Well, let's get back to this. Just you and I now, we don't have to worry about other people's schedules and things. Dr. Marisol had a plane to catch. And we were running a little late. Our podcast went a little long for a little bad about that. What's going on with the family with you and the family?
Oh, wow. So we're getting ready for we're getting ready for Thanksgiving. Of course. That’s that's coming up. That's going to be at my brother's house. But second from that Marie and I are both super pumped because it's our oldests senior year in basketball and our youngest is now on the JV. They both just kicked off this last weekend playing against a...ok so my boys are classified in their high school as 4A. It’s a top 10 program in the 4A right now.
So 4A means what for everybody that’s listening.
Texas has classification...
So we've got
6A all the way down...
We’ve got NBA
Yes
4A
Right
College.
And then on down.
Yeah it's just between D league and NBA
Got it.
Yeah, it's really exclusive.
Yeah.
So but Gage’s varsity team is ranked in the top 10 for for 4A currently and they were matched up against another top five team at a 5A over the weekend and Mac’s JV team got to play the JV team at the same school. So Mac got to play first. His team was back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. They ended up trailing and losing by 2 at the end. Huge, awesome effort. I mean, for a 4A school top notch to be going against a 5A, it's a big deal.
So then two hours later, Gage, Gage’s team matches up with their varsity against that same 5A school squared off they actually were trailing by almost 10 fought back took the lead, go to overtime. They tied up in regulation ended up losing by two. It was awesome. It was a great sparring match two high caliber quality high school teams, both stacked with with good kids who are who listen to their coaches, great athletes, but more really just kind of pulling the same direction. So it was it was a blast.
That's awesome.
Isn’t that awesome seeing, seeing that many good kids out there and you were just I mean, you look at the level of athleticism that's it's just insane.
Definitely. I mean and the Sulfer Springs kiddos who came to play against Gage’s and Mac’s squad. I mean, you could tell they they are well disciplined. They work really really hard. I'm certain that they'll go far just as their projected so uh anyway for them. That's probably the biggest thing on our news at the moment and Gage, see since we've been on the air, he has picked his school. He's going to go to the business school at Texas Tech.
Yeah, there we go. So It's exciting and he prepares to graduate.
Hook em Raiders right?
That’s ridiculous.
No that’s
Not right...
No, yeah, that's silly, silly all the way around. What's going on y'all?
Well, so we have a November's our birthday month my Carla turned 13 Lucas turned 15 and Loida turned 29 for the 10th year in a row or something like that. I don't even keep track.
Before I forget Marie also has a birthday. Her birthday was was earlier in November also.
So as you you know, I'm and we're going to get into this because what I want to do so on today's show, I know that we're starting out talking about some personal stuff, but I do want to talk with some science. I'm gonna get back to our roots the way we were doing that at Spoony. Geek out a little bit without a guest we've, I've got something I want to talk about in the news. I got a book review that I want to do.
Oh yeah
And we haven't done that yet.
What’s up Tony Yun.
Yeah, we'll start doing that. We're gonna do a book review, and then get into a little bit more really, really cool science and talk about why..Well, really you're wasting your time exercising,
That, that would be news.
Did I just throw you off a little.
Yeah, I was not expecting that.
Yeah, basically you're wasting your time exercise. So we're going to get into that. So make sure that you here because I've got some interesting data. Im always looking at data. So one of the things that I've always talked about is I'm not a big fan of how everybody sits on their phone all the time.
And I had to break down. I because of the traveling of the kids, and because of the way that the world now communicates. Both kids now have phones for the they've been the last holdouts in their school. So both Carla and Lucas now have cell phones, iPhones to be exact. So Loida got an upgrade. Both kids got phones and I'm just sort of dealing with that fact. And so Lucas got his phone. Loida and Carla went out of town. And or I'm sorry, I take that back. Loida’s car broke and Carla went to school Lucas decided he want to go play tennis. And we just adapted and persevered did what every other kid already has been doing for years. I was just shocked that he just did it on his own and downloaded the Uber app and then spent the whole day just sort of ubering himself around for things he wanted to do. Tennis, yoga, he took 4 Uber rides in the first day that we left them alone with his phone. Like, okay, you're exploring the world.
Me either.
Yes. It's pretty amazing though. If somebody went to time travel and see that kind of availability, I don't even think they could comprehend much. That's kind of amazing.
Oh, man. I mean, we can get into that a little bit more. But speaking of Uber, I'm, you know, just something to go off topic a little bit. I heard a really cool podcast this morning. Yeah. While I was on the treadmill.
Okay.
Even though I just said that exercise is worthless. Yeah. So, while I was on the treadmill this morning, I was listening to a podcast, happiness, something rather I'll figure it out but really, really well done. It's a Yale. It's a Yale psychologist that was discussing the fact that we, she interviewed. I forgot his name. Do you know that the inventor, there was a guy who worked. I don't remember exactly where he worked at the story of this is irrelevant, but it is relevant because it's here in Dallas.
Okay.
He was sitting in line at the bank, and it was taking over an hour. He's just like, I need to be back in my office. He's an entrepreneur. He's like we're developing things. Sure. And he went back and said that that is just a colossal waste of time. And as it turns out, he is the inventor of the ATM. Oh, he's 90 something years old. He lives here in Dallas. She flew to Dallas to interview him. And this totally gregarious and cute and his wife has never used an ATM.
How?
Never used one because she said I didn't like how it depersonalized the banking system because I like talking to the teller, and then this gets into socialization and how we just keep putting ourselves in a bubble.
Sure.
And the reality is being antisocial is just as dangerous or not being social with others, or being...Everybody thinks they're being social, but they're not being social on the phone, you're not actually looking at somebody and saying, Hey, how are you? And what they looked at is that multiple studies have shown that, oddly, when you interview people, they say that they really want to be left alone. So for instance, there was a railway system and I don't remember it was New York or something, where they did a poll of everybody and people basically said, I want to be left alone. So they made quiet cars. And this guy did a study. I'm going off the cuff because I just I listened to it just a few hours ago. I'll give the, we can do better show notes on this and I can tell you about it but it's really interesting.
Okay.
Because what it comes down to is the more that we make ourselves, our lives convenient, the more and more we don't know it, but we're emotionally isolating ourselves
I believe it.
And the more that we emotionally isolate ourselves, the direct correlation to happiness starts changing. So to be happy, you have to be part of a group, you have to be part of a tribe. And that's why I think us showing up here and having the KBMD health tribe, be part of it, share it, get people moving, talk to us, because that is a social interaction. They did a study where they took a couple groups of people and they said, I want you to go on the on this train. It's like a commuter train in Philly or New York or something. Don't talk. Sit down to somebody and engage in a conversation. And then sit down with somebody engage and then just listen, ask questions and listen. And so they were trying to see, completely across the board, those that actually engaged with other humans had a much more pleasant experience. And they didn't think that they would, because the perception of humans is, well I don't want to ask, I don't want to say hi to somebody on a random train because they're going to kill me. It's this worst case scenario type thing. So the train took a took a poll, and they decided to make quiet carts based on the pole. But this same Professor went to them and said, you know, what you should really do is make interactive ones.
Yes!
Chatty, ones, whatever. And they said, well, we we actually did something like that we had like a, like a, an interactive car. And it was too crowded all the time. Okay, so you're so contradicting yourself. Humans want to be involved with each other. I only bring up this briefly because with Lucas getting on Uber and doing that, it's just, you know, you're not getting out there again and doing this, the apps are too easy. You can order groceries to your house, not interact with anybody, but just sitting there saying, Hey, tell me your story. I want to start what I'm going to what I'm going to do is I'm going to carry around a journal and I just got done reading The soulful art of persuasion.
Oh, Jason's book? Yeah.
Yeah. What's his last name? Jason?
That wasn't good.
No, it's not good. I just, I just finished this morning also. So I've had a really good a very enjoyable morning, I read and worked out did some work. But what it basically shows is that when you have a story, and you can tell it, people are much more engaged.
Right?
Jason Harris.
Jason Harris, that's it. We're going to need to see him in person. And...
It’s and incredible book.
It’s a great book. But basically, when you can tell a story, you can engage with somebody and get them to. He encourages people to carry around a journal and when you meet people and they get a cool story, write it down. Just write it down. It's an engaging thing. So I'm going to start doing that. I'm gonna sit in line you're waiting in line. Instead of being in line and making it worthless. Turn around, say what's up.
Yeah, you're exactly right. The cool part about Jason's book, The soulful art of persuasion is that it really is just a guideline on how to engage with someone. It really is not about, you know, using subversion to win them over. It's about the human gain trust about being trustworthy, and people will want to interact and do things with you.
We will do a full book review on that one because I took a deep dive on that.
Yeah.
Speaking of book reviews, I think you know this guy.
I do!
It's big Tony Yun.
Our friend, Dr. Tony Yun. I read his book recently. It's called playing God, Anthony Yun. I gotta admit, I was a little skeptical as being a doctor. I was expecting just straight up. Grey's Anatomy style. I did this save this life. This is you know, Blah, blah, blah. What was really, really, really cool was that it's really heartfelt. It shows him from the beginning shows him in in early residency, where he describes in detail being stuck doing but pus duty. He's doing his residency, he goes all the way from having, you know, having to do these but pus things being broke.
Yes.
You know, trouble with that. He's got some really great stories through his residency, like the time that he had his wife come up to the call rooms whose overnight and they tried to get intimate, but it really smelled like blood and poop and people were running around outside and there was lots of yelling and stuff and he kept getting called out and she just basically said, this is never gonna happen.
Yeah.
Which is very different than a Grey's Anatomy episode.
Yeah. Every closet is a place to hook up.
I know. But some really, really, really funny stuff he puts in there, but also he puts some very intimate things. Like people dying.
Right.
Like the time that he was nervous, the time he didn't know what to do. As I was reading it as a physician, I thought it was really cool because I'm like, I get this, this is exactly how I would think he was talking. He was talking about how his phone would ring. And it would be this difficult patient or a lawyer or something in his heart would stop. And it was just Oh, and he had to keep it together and still go through with it. And he was it's really heartfelt.
Sure.
And then ultimately, you know, some wins, where he did some really cool things. And that is pretty much from a doctor's perspective. Yeah, high five to you, Tony, because you're honest about it. He's said everything, the hard work that it takes to get there. And then if you're not a doctor, because this isn't really meant for doctors, I want everybody to get this book, because you’ll understand what your doctor went through to get there.
And definitely and knowing Tony and his approach to life, how this this book isn't just a facade. I mean, he’s a great guy and he puts his patients first, he's definitely altruistic in his approach to how he cares for his patients. And yeah, good job, Tony.
And he, he also talks about a system where there's a lot of doctors that don't think like he does.
Right.
You know, I mean, he's, you know, his trademark is the, you know, America's holistic plastic surgeon. He's a lot more than that. I mean, he's a talented surgeon and all that, but looking at what he went through to get there. It's like, everybody that you see that has a successful business. That only took 10 years to be an overnight success. It only took 16 years to be a successful plastic surgeon.
Yeah, only.
Only.
Yeah
That kind of thing. post-college. So anyways, that's our first book review Playing God. Go to Amazon pick it up, Tony Yun. I actually found it to be a really enjoyable, easy read. And I think it's going to be very important for both people in the medical field to read it so that they go Yeah, I'm not alone. And then everybody who's not in the medical field to go, oh my gosh, my doctors probably been through a lot to get to where he's at.
Definitely Yeah, good job Tony playing God Tony Yun or Anthony Yun, MD. I think you can find the Amazon and really anywhere.
America’s holistic plastic surgeon.
Awesome. Well, hey I was going to tell you briefly about a very interesting documentary that I've got to finish. To full disclosure, I tried to watch it yesterday in preparation of today's show and I fell asleep. It was a it was late in the evening as I turned it on and....
That's what resounding cool review there, buddy.
Yeah, it has nothing to do with the content has everything to do with that was a little fatigued and i fell asleep, but it's called Tell Me Who I Am. And it was just released on Netflix within the last few days, I believe. But here's the premise. It's two twins. I think they're in their late 50s. And essentially, they've grown up and one of them has a pretty serious accident that gives him amnesia. And it's its global. He doesn't really remember much of...
How old was he?
I think he was in his 50s. And his other twin to care for his brother begins to fill in the holes for him. But he learns that his twin that had all the information basically only told us
I think he was 18 when it happened.
Oh, the accident? Yes, I'm sorry. I know I meant the episode whenever they talked about...
I want to know when he was hit.
Sure. No, I think the accident was whenever he was in his teens, you're correct. But he begins to fill in the blanks for him and doesn't tell him about all the bad things that they've been through together. He just tells him the good stuff. And what's really interesting is that as the twin who had amnesia has been filled in, he notices that as he loses his dad and then later loses his mom, that the affinity that he has for his mom and dad is far different than the way that his brother is experiencing everything. And his brother was basically protecting him from basically it was a it was a childhood of abuse, that he didn't tell him.
Oh my gosh, could you imagine that weight on you?
No.
Where you both went through it as twins. You both probably sat there for 18 years and talk to each other about the horrific vents that were going on.
Yeah.
And then you have the opportunity to go, I'm going to give you a new life.
Yes. And so basically his, his twin that didn't have the accident, loved his brother so much. He didn't want to burden him with basically what he was living with. And he's basically in his own little hell there. And coming from I mean, I had a great childhood. I did. And for those of you who didn't, I'm really sorry that you didn't get to experience that but I feel for you because this guy has a real weight around his neck. And he saw...
Did your brother tell you that you had a great childhood?
Yeah, that was it. But you could tell that, that he has this weight around his neck of all this information and he decided for his brother that that's that's freedom. I'm not going to tell this to you. And so now he's going back and just basically processing what has happened but even at that rate he's just processing as being told to him he doesn't he doesn't really have the memory of it. So fantastic documentary to get started on. I'm looking forward to finishing it to see how they round out and basically reconcile the information but Tell Me Who I Am Netflix. It's pretty powerful.
Well, let's talk about that because that means that his world looking seen probably pictures and stuff like that.
Yeah.
Painting this whole thing. He's happy. It's a perception, which shows the power of the mind. He's still although he has amnesia.
Sure.
There's deep subconscious battle scars in there. And it's fascinating that even the subconscious portion of it was wiped clean.
Yep.
And in I like when I hear this, I, I just go, wow, there's two sides of this one is you get a chance to go I mean to let your brother live a completely clean life by letting his brain do it, which shows how powerful the mind is. And then the flip side is that the brother that's still dealing with the regret and all this other things, has the ability. If you're, I mean, if you meditate enough, if you're able to control the thoughts that you can control those negative emotions as well.
Yea.
It's not just you don't, you don't just need to thump your head and have amnesia. You can actually do some different things. There was, I mean, we talked about it before, but I think that's one of the reasons why ayahuasca, psilocybin, and these different studies that are going on at Johns Hopkins right now, because what it does is it gets you to just stop for a moment. And then you get to have control of your brain again.
Yeah.
Because in my opinion, When you have these perserverating thoughts, if you're somebody that's out there that is depressed if you're somebody that's dealing with PTSD if you're dealing with emotions, childhood stuff that we never get rid of, but it gets ahead of you then that dominates your conscious thought. This is something where you can show wiped clean you have total control. He had a perfect life.
Yea check this out. So when you look at the age marks, I mean, the wrinkles and whatnot, the one who remembered everything. He definitely deals with stress on a completely different level. And he's a little heavier. I mean, it's it's all of the things that go along with perpetual stress. This guy deals with it because it's turned into anxiety. He's not happy as we're certainly not as happy as the one is his brother has been liberated of all of these horrific memories, right? So,yeah, it's it's a...
Well it's super fascinating that I realized that that is something that I have to quit saying every time I every time I get around you and I start thinking of different stuff. I always say it's super fascinating but it is super fascinating. Sure. When they've done studies where they look at people and I say, okay, Eric, for the next 10 seconds, do not think of a white elephant.
That's all I'm going to think about.
So these different psychologists have shown that they put bells on the table. And, and when they told a class to not think of a white elephant, just if you do hit that bell, bing, bing bing bells started going off in the more they went off, the more they did, which means that the more somebody did this, they triggered to not think about that, then all of a sudden, you're associating don't do this with the memory that I'm not supposed to do this. I'm not supposed to do this. That's what our brains do during PTSD.
Sure.
They just keep bringing that bell and just hitting it faster and faster.
Well, our lizard brain that's the protective mechanism, right? I mean, you're you learn what danger is before you learn what pleasure is, you because to know what danger is is survival. To know what pleasure is may or may not pay off for you but to know what danger is, is survival. So...
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That is really interesting.
Yeah.
That is interesting. I came across something pretty cool with that. Let's start taking some science now. In the news article just came out. A woman in China became temporarily blinded in one eye because she was on her phone all night.
That is weird.
It is weird. The article describes her staying up all night playing on her phone. And then suddenly she went blind in one eye. Went to the emergency room and scans revealed that she had large patches of blood in her retina, blocking her vision. And she was diagnosed with valsalva retinopathy.
Really?
Yeah, valsalva retinopathy. So this is because I'm trying to picture this now, because I just got done saying that we gave the kids have phone. Everybody has their phones are on it a long time this person was on there all night long and then woke up blind in one eye valsalva retinopathy. So the article actually discusses that it was described in 1972. And I took it a little bit further and I actually found that there's documentation of valsalva issues in health in 1704. Okay, it was the treatment of choice. Basically what valsalva is, is you try and breathe out on a closed glottis meaning no air is coming out. So you're like, oh, man, that's a fancy term, everybody valsalvas if you're going poop you're valsalvas.
Yep, when you bear down.
When you bear down
Yeah, you bear down and...
Lifting heavy things bear down you actually valsalva when you're sneezing real hard, you're not letting it out. Even you can have cough. There's something called micturition, and defication syncope, when people push too hard to pee, or they push too hard to poop they will actually pass out. And that that's called valsalva syncope.
Right?
And so this one is valsalva retinopathy. So in 1704, it was first reported that doing the valsalva maneuver, where you push down real hard was a way to clear out ear infections because it would blow the eardrum and pus come out.
That sounds cute.
I know it's, it's wild, so technically, it's when you're trying to breathe against a closed airway. But what I found fascinating about this one was what was she doing with her phone? That she literally blew out her eye hole?
I don't know. That's what I can't quite wrap my head around. What about the valsalva retinopathy is related to the phone?
That is the funny part they didn't get into it. Like my first question would be like, what app were you playing? What website were you on? What were you doing? What made you so worked up that you're like, aaaghhhh.
It's like really intense Bejeweled? I mean what do you do? I don't even I don't even know that game. I've just seen it. I mean, the connecting dots? I'm not really sure. Facebook really hard?
I know like Facebook super hard or you just you just can't stand that tweet.
Yeah. So you just start
Snapchat.
So anyways, next time you're up all night and you're valsalva or next time you're up all night you're on your phone, and you start getting super emotional. Just breathe.
Yeah.
Just breathe or you don't want to blow your eye hole...
Put the stupid phone down.
I mean that that's crazy. I mean, she's able to attribute the long term use she that's self reported. They don't know that. I know. So what is she doing?
That's why I'm much more curious what she was doing on the phone to create that. Or she was on the phone while on the toilet. I saw some comments.
That's the problem.
Well, I saw I saw on Instagram we posted our Dr. Marisol social media thing where basically you know, I asked her in the first 10 seconds, Welcome to the show how you pooping I'm pooping like a champ. I'm pooping like a queen. Somebody said is awesome. I'm listening to this while pooping.
Yeah. I mean, I think if everyone's full disclosure greater than 90% of the people are opening up their phone while they go in into the throne library.
Well, this is something you know, I love treating hemorrhoids in my office. If you have any hemorrhoids, if you have any rectal bleeding, go see your doctor, but I can fix those hemorrhoids. And we do it painlessly, and have about 90% success rate with using something called the CRH medical system.
Right?
We're gonna bring those guys on the show. They've already reached out to us because they want to start collaborating on a few different things. But wow, I almost feel like I should. Well, everybody already has phones, but had I known how effective phones would be to create hemorrhoids?
Sure.
I would have like, started sending phones to all my patients when they first came out.
What do you think the percentage increase in time is that people spend on the toilet because of an electronic device that will occupy their attention.
Oh my gosh...
It's had to have gone up.
There's, there's there's a famous meme on Reddit cuz you know, Reddit can be a time suck. You start scrolling, and it's one guy does the 3d picture of him holding toilet paper going it's time to wipe.
But it's so true man. I mean, people go in there and they they get to scrolling on their phone and they get into a chat room or they Snapchat whatever they do. And I'm guarantee that people there's a significant amount of more time people spend on the toilets in the because they've got that phone.
Oh, absolutely. We're, I mean, the way that we eat and everybody gets constipated. I mean, I'm actually I'm morally torn. I probably never disclosed this to you before.
Yeah, not about this. I don't think
I love treating hemorrhoids.
Okay.
But the horse chestnut and Atrantil fixing bloating and constipation
Sure.
Takes away some of that hemorrhoids. business.
It does.
I'm torn.
But it's natural.
It's natural. It helps bloating and constipation and change about habits and I'm over here trying to find more people with Hemorrhoids and I'm fixing them so it's like I'm I'm sort of competing against myself here so I'm morally torn.
So get Atrantil and if it persists they can come see you and you can fix it.
There we go.
Yeah Nice.
Yeah so, but anyways, yeah she blew her eyehole.
I don't know how you do that or if there's a Chinese character for that blown eyehole.
I'm telling you I want to reach out to this woman there was no way she did a playing an app she was pooping or she was doing something else that created her to valsalva. I don't know.
Don't you think it's kind of weird though earlier you were talking about the interaction of people. And I was sitting there thinking that a lot of people now when they interact with their friends, they'll do it daily through an app a social app, Facebook or Snapchat or Instagram, something like that similarly. However, if you get texted if you get a phone call or if you get a ding from one of those social apps, I sense frustration in myself when it happens and I happen to be engaged with someone that I'm talking to. If I'm talking to someone and my phone begins to buzz, I'm annoyed by the buzz it because it's interrupting my personal interaction with someone else. I don't get upset with someone who comes up to talk to me while I'm finishing up a text. I will fully put that down. So yeah, let's talk because this is annoying. It really is. I'm ready to get to the point where I can throw this thing in the river. I can't stand to be on the phone. It drives me crazy.
The more that we can interact face to face, the more that we can start realizing that we need this. Humans want to look each other in the eye. They want to smile. The vast majority of people that strangers that you talked to are not trying to kill you. They're not trying to you know the chances are this is funny, the chances are the vast majority of people calling your phone are trying to sell you something trick you into something...
It's all spam calls now anyway.
It's a con it's the biggest con game ever.
Yeah.
That you can sit there you're better off walking up somebody just being like hello.
You know I'm going to challenge KBMD health community do this. Let's see if we can't do this with our our newly launched season as we continue forward. If you watch Gut Check Project, send it to a friend have them watch it, talk about it, begin to watch it together compare notes. What did you learn? Send us topics together. Hey, my friend and I were talking about x y and z after ya'll brought this up. Could y'all address this? Let's make this more the community that we did in the first season that was 1 through 20 and let's let's do this together because what's the point in just consuming this by yourself? We want to help people's health.
Start a social community hashtag Ken's a jerk.
Yeah As long as we know that we don't care. Right?
There's, I mean, people getting out and doing things. In in Jason's book, he talks about a hairdresser who was really just didn't really know how he could give back. And he realized I'm a hairdresser. So he went out San Francisco, I believe, and spend an hour and did somebody hair. A homeless persons hair, sorry, not somebody's.
Oh, wow.
Went out and did a homeless person's hair. And what what he found is, is that he learned about this person actually stopped and said, hey, and the guy had a story. And there's a lot of different like, we're all human. How in the world are we 99.9% the same DNA and we can treat each other so badly. And we can ignore each other and I can pretend like, well, I'm sure Eric doesn't feel bad when I say something or ignore him. I mean, if there's one thing we can start doing is just pulling people in and going, hey, we all feel the same. As a doctor. I love this part. I stick my finger in so many butts and they're all the same?
Yeah.
We're all 99.9% exactly the same on a genetic level. That has to be some common ground.
It's gotta be common ground. I mean, okay, when we're scoping and if you've ever been in to see us do we just wheel them back and then just have them get into position? No, maybe next to never do that. We almost always try to engage with every single patient that comes through so that they feel like that it's it's a conversation.
I don't think you're trying to I mean, I've seen you do it 10s of thousands of times, you're like so what do you do? Where you're from?
Those are my first two questions everytime.
What do you do? Where are you from? And then they get to choose so it's not you know, full I'm because I'm unemployed I'm not gonna say that. I'm just gonna say I'm from Rockwall or wherever, which is I never I never know where they're from. But it's a way to get people to go hey, who are you? What is it? And then later we'll, we'll start talking about remember that guy that will the attorney from Greenville or whatever, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm like, that was really cool. I ended up going to blah blah blah this is how you, this is how the network is.
Yeah.
It's, hi. I'm Ken. Who are you? Tell me something about yourself.
When people come through there I mean it would be so easy. And in fact, we could even go faster through the day if we did not try to get personal. But that to me is no fun. And there's no reward in that.
You know what, let's do this. So don't be surprised if you come to my clinic or you come to the endo center, we should make a poster to put...we'll frame it and we'll put it in my office and over the over at the endo center that says loneliness is just as dangerous as smoking.
Ooh.
Turn to your right. Say hi to somebody.
Yeah.
Find out why they're here. They're all they all have something in common. It's something with their guts. I'm going to do that. I'm going to challenge my waiting room to get off their phones and to just start interacting with each other,
Yeah, no, that would be awesome.
Wouldn't that be cool?
Yeah. And it probably the time would go by quicker. I mean, think about it you, you get to visiting with people, time escapes you because it's pleasurable. It's not and you're actually picking up things you're interacting. It's not hold up when you're simply in this over time you get fatigue. I mean, you do.
Well, that's one of the reasons why we have this show. We love bringing people on.
Yeah.
And learning from other people.
Definitely.
And, you know, please hit us up, let us know what topics you want to hear, broad, whatever, do more on finances, do more on, on supplements, do more on whatever and we can we're now reaching out to people, we're meeting a ton of really cool people that are so knowledgeable, and they're reaching out to us. And they're saying, hey, I want to come on your show and talk about protein because I think people get it wrong. Kind of like the whole game changers Netflix thing that everybody's really controversial with
Yeah
I'll tell you my experience with that. I saw it and I was pretty I was pretty moved. I was like, wow, that's interesting. So Loida and I did it, we did seven days. She still on it, she loved it. I made the mistake like I always do just jump all in and I went to Whole Foods found their vegan section and got every meat substitute possible. Tried to eat for seven days. Holy cow, the thing I kept forgetting, I'm like, man, I am swollen. I am just not feeling good things are just not right. My joints hurt everything. They use a lot of gluten and that stuff and I'm gluten intolerant. And I wasn't taking Atrantil with it because I thought it was plant based and I was gonna do this so that in itself to be a really kind of interesting topic where let's let's bring a protein expert on somebody who knows that
If anybody's watched game changers I'm I mean it seriously I'm really interested in what people thought of the show, and what they think is actually practical. So I don't for one second think that we can't eat less meat or certain types of meat. I honestly I don't know. But I don't think that were made to not eat meat. I mean, I just I don't know think that we had the canine teeth for no reason it just doesn't make sense. Meat tastes good.
This is it's a fascinating that because it's such a well done documentary that it's one of the few things that has really knives over forks that kind of thing I get it food inc. those those are all really interesting.
What was the other the other one was just horrible was what the health that was out of control.
What the health or whatever but but this one is this one shows elite athletes being plant based. I really I mean, I want to be an elite athlete I want to do you know, I mean I wanted to but man I jacked myself up trying to go all in and you know, so there's so for me maybe there's a limit i'm i've done well paleo the last six or seven, eight years, and I tried to just shift it and my body kind of fought back at me I did not feel like it was an anti inflammatory diet with me but I but in I realized I probably did it myself because I think I was doing a lot of the substitutes. Like like a true vegan would be like hey, you gotta like really make sure you get enough protein from your legumes and this and that I just jumped in said, let's just all do plant based.
What's the guy's name? the orthopedist. Shaun Baker.
Shaun Baker. The carnivore
He's all meat all the time. Correct.
Correct.
I don't think that's right either. I mean, it's just it No, that's not good either. Because cauliflower is pretty tasty. I mean, that's the thing. I mean, like it's, it's good. You can have great vegetables and great meats. I think it does matter where you get your stuff from. And it does matter where your food sources are and if it can be trusted, but to totally write off all vegetables to totally write off all fruits and totally write off all meats is is nuts. Just, you just gotta be sensible. Stay away from the genetically modified stuff. Stay away from the crap that you know is crap. Just eat good food and you'll probably be okay and don't eat as much. But the crazy thing is, whenever you end up commiting to eating clean food, you tend to overeat way, way less. And it just, I don't know, it seems it seems silly and dumbed down but that's if you're going to start somewhere start there.
Well, definitely nutrition is super hot topic. People want to get healthier.
Sure.
That's a That's why every time I walk into the gym, I always see a bunch of people sitting there on the ellipticals banging it away.
Yeah. Oh, hey, what about the exercise thing?
Exactly.
So let's talk about it.
So it's really, I'm going to be going on vacation soon, gonna be going to a beach. And like a lot of people that start realizing that, you know, we're sitting in November, I'm like, man, I'm going to be on a beach. And I could probably, I want to shed these 10 pounds right now.
Okay.
And so I started looking at a few things and just kind of saying, Okay, how can I shed this and then I came across a 2007 study, which was really interesting. It looked at...it was in the Journal of obesity, where they took 200 sedentary people, and they had them do what they called moderate aggressive aerobic exercise. They divide them into 100. That said, you keep doing what you're doing, sit on the couch, and they took the other hundred and said, you're going to do 60 minutes of aerobic exercise six days a week, and they follow them for a year.
So 52 weeks.
They got 100 people that were sedentary to do exercise and actually get into a little bit where they said that a lot of the exercise was made for them to come in and do it in person. So they watched
Alright.
Or they had pedometers that they can log in and kind of watch it and see how much they do. And they had these people do it. It was amazing. The weight loss was absolutely incredible. So they had 100 people that were sedentary sitting on the couch and they said keep sitting on the couch.
That's it.
That's it. And then they had another hundred people and said, Get off your ass, you're going to come to 60 minutes of aerobic exercise six days a week.
Was it that machine with a belt that goes around does this really fast?
They actually do not get into exactly what they did.
Okay.
But it was either some sort of jogging or the elliptical or just a typical gym stuff that people do.
Okay.
Massive amount of weight loss, guess how much the average weight loss was in the aerobic group?
Are we talking about percentage or pounds?
Pounds!
In the aerobic group?
In the aerobic group compared to the one over compared to the couch sitters.
10 pounds? I don't know.
In a year.
Well, I don't know!
At 60 minutes, six days a week?
But it sounds to me like that's a lot of fatigue and build up just but i don't i don't see it being a long term solution.
Yeah but they worked out for a full year. I mean, there's a lot of people sitting here listening to this right now that might be on a treadmill. They might be on an elliptical.
I mean, I think old me would think that that would be hundreds of pounds. But I it sounds to me like a lot of stress.
It's gotta be hundreds of pounds.
It's not though.
It's three pounds.
Yeah.
Three pounds.
So and the diet didn't change for either group. This is just adding in the exercise, is that correct?
So it's just adding in the exercise, but there's there's a lot of what is what is the, what is the epidemiologic term? Causality versus correlation?
Okay.
Causality versus correlation. You know, did they lose the weight because they did the exercise? Did they not lose the weight because they did the exercise? Is it true, true and unrelated, and there's just other factors going on? So you gotta take everything with a grain of salt.
Okay
Somebody who's really good at explaining this kind of stuff and breaking down the sciences. Peter Aditya the cardiothoracic surgeon has his own podcast and super smart guy, but he's really big about looking at studies that make it into the media. And then said, well, let's look at the causality versus correlation. Let's look at this. Let's look at the code. You know, the confounding factors. So this has a lot of that. But what it does tell me is, a lot of people are trying their asses off to lose this weight and get on the elliptical because they see everybody else doing it. As it turns out, this particular study in 2007 went on to say, well, in these 200 people, they only lost three pounds in a year...
Of exercise.
Six days a week.
That's nuts.
That's nuts. Then there's a really cool podcast. So then I started digging deeper. I was like, This is crazy. How can you only lose three pounds with exercising like that? So then I found a podcast called Science Versus and actually, the topic of it was exactly this. Does exercise help you lose fat? And so they had a couple experts on it's a very well done podcast, super high level. And they brought in and they looked at a 10 years study. There was a meta analysis that had over 5000 people and 5000 people
Okay, that's pretty big sample size.
Huge. Where they basically showed that aerobic exercise was not very effective for weight loss. In fact, across the board, almost everyone gained weight. So once again, is it correlation versus causality? Meaning does A cause B or are A and B separate? So did they exercise and gain weight? Or did they exercise and nothing happened? Were they going to gain the weight? Anyways, there's a lot of variables, but 5000 people they looked at, and they really couldn't even conclude that aerobic exercise helps people lose weight. There might be a lot of reasons for this. It's pretty hard to burn calories. People don't realize that. So when you were talking about well did the people what did they do? Did they change their diet? Did they do things? Well, it's human nature to go well, I was on that treadmill for 40 minutes for 60 minutes. Then I'm okay with having the doughnut now.
Yeah.
You stop and think about it. A bagel 400 calories? You need to aggressively run like 40 minutes to burn off that 400 calories.
Oh, wow.
And people that we just lose that we just don't you know, we talked about the phone earlier how life gets simpler. All these things you're ubering instead of riding your bike and doing all this stuff, we're making life so much more convenient. But we're also in this calorie excess no matter what you do. I mean, you really got to ratchet it down, you start looking at it. It's crazy. So aerobic exercise. So over this 10 year period, almost everyone gained weight and it wasn't muscle. The type of exercise was variable. They couldn't control that but kind of makes you think because you know, you could argue well, where they do it hit where they doing this, no, it was just typical aerobic exercise show up and do this. So exercise, not a weight loss thing.
I wonder yeah, but I am curious about doing resistance exercise and lifting heavy weights. If that...
It didn't even get into that at all this is strictly aerobic.
Strictly really aerobic, yeah.
So,
Well it doesn't really surprise me though, whenever you look at we've talked about this before in previous episodes and of course just whenever we're spitballing but your your longevity endurance athletes unless they're doing some element of strength training, oftentimes they end up their body habitus changes to basically store fat in weird different ways. They don't really lose weight anymore. And you're, in some instances, your long term runners and your long term marathon bikers, they end up having fat deposits cardiac disease and different things like that because you're under a constant level of stress without the peaks and valleys that from normal exercise that we get.
That is a yeah, so that's going to be a whole separate discussion of how do you the hormetic effect meaning your body adapting to it.
Right.
I think the problem is when you say go exercise people go they get on elliptical, they get on a bike, they're on their apps, their Facebook, they're reading I mean I hardly ever seen anybody read a book anymore. I remember I used to years ago people bring books and set them on there. So your body adapts to whatever you're doing.
Sure.
There's no shock...any type of you're not causing the hormetic effect the hormetic effect is I need you to be under stress and your body will adapt to it. That's what weightlifting is. That's what sauna is. That's what cold therapy is. That's what a lot of these different things that's what polyphenols do polyphenols create a hormetic effect.
Yep.
They actually your body has to break them down and then as they do that, they create anti inflammatory molecules from that so the polyphenols and Atrantil do that. The CBD allows your body to adjust to that hormetic effect so that you can adapt. So if you want to beach body contrary to what all the exercise all the commercials and stuff Richard Simmons sweating to the oldies, you know, shake it off.
Thighmaster?
Thighmaster. I I started to doubt this when I was about two years into my Prancercise routine. And I just realized, you know what that lady in that Prancercise video. I'm not really sure that this is for me I mean she was skinny. That was cool.
Yeah.
If you haven't seen it just YouTube Prancercise
Yeah. She's She's interesting. I didn't know whether to do that at the old Jane Fonda tapes.
Yeah.
I wasn't really sure.
I'm all about anything. I like trying different things. And I think that's that's one of the I think that's one of the cool things about science is that you can always go back on itself. You can have medical reversals and everything. But you do remember that I did say I was on the treadmill this morning.
Yeah, I do remember that.
So before you run out and run up to your cardiologist and say you're a liar and all this other stuff. Really cool stuff actually happens when you exercise. It's just not for what I was looking for. I'm trying to get a beach body in like five days or six days. That's not going to happen.
Let's let's be clear, there's nothing wrong with running. You just gotta of mix it up.
Yeah. So as it turns out some really cool stuff happened. Number one mood let's talk about mood a lot of people talk about. I remember Rhonda Patrick was sitting there talking about how she really likes to go for runs in not even for the anything but it elevates her mood. So we do know that it helps with mood. Unfortunately, they did look at a large meta analysis. And if you're in deep clinical depression, you can't outrun your depression. So it momentarily elevates some dopamine and some serotonin. But it's temporary. So don't think that you can just say, Well, I'm going to quit taking my antidepressants go out for a jog that is not that they've definitely shown that there's probably more complex things going on with major depression, but it can elevate your mood, but some really cool science, some other deep stuff. It does appear to have tremendous effects on cardiovascular health. This all started because they looked at double decker buses in the UK.
Yeah.
And there's one guy that runs around and collects everybody's tickets and has to run up and do the same thing and then run back down and do the same thing. He's does this all day long, and then the other guy drives the bus. They found that usually each one person stayed doing the job. The other one did. They showed a 60% increase in cardiovascular events from the driver compared to the guy running around.
Heck, yeah.
So you got the same environment, you could say ah well, they're being exposed to fumes. They're being exposed to stress. No, it's the same exact day that they're doing. One guy had a 60% increase. So clearly, moving and doing things is good for cardiovascular health. So that's reason number well number one elevate mood number two, cardiovascular health. Number three, it appears to stave off dementia.
Yeah.
In this podcast, they were talking about a study where they looked at people, older people who were aggressively exercising and who are in pretty good shape. Those that were moderate shape and those that were sedentary, striking difference between the sedentary and the really good shape. They actually show that dementia was completely different in these people. So brain health, longevity. They also found that regular exercise seems to turn on natural killer cells, which are cells that go around and they look for early tumors.
ASbnormalities.
They look for abnormalities. They're like they're like the patrolmen in your body.
Sure.
Well, when you exercise, these guys get released from their cages and they go, we're going to go find some bad actors, when you don't exercise and you're sitting there, you got cancer cells that are starting to grow.
And not only just for that, and in of its in this particular study, but second from that is your goodness gracious, HDL can actually increase with good exercise over time. Isn't that correct?
Yeah. So there's all these other this particular thing was looking at the we a lot of people exercise, and they do it for their vanity. I'm saying, I'm going to start exercising more and doing more cardio, but in a way that if I want to actually improve my cardiovascular health my brain health ultimately try and prevent cancer. So as it turns out, it is a great medicine to prescribe to your patients but the media is trying to tell you to do it for a different reason.
Oh yeah, yeah.
That's kinda what I'm getting at. You're not going to or at least in the clinical trials, but there's a lot of people I mean I've run I've had periods where I was in what I consider myself really good shape where I was running every single morning and my total body fat was pretty low. I ached everywhere.
Yeah, I imagine so.
My hips ached my backs ached, backs, I got several backs.
Yeah, well, I've I gave up on just the running only several years ago and I couldn't be happier. It's a it's a hard way to go to me from...
I'm a so today so I'm working out a cowboy fit and I've been getting some low level light laser kind of like what we had with the Thor laser
James
James.
James Carol.
The different so Thor Lasers a little bit different this one it's I'm trying to sound a little wrist injury, I want to go surfing so I need to be able to pop up on my board.
Yeah
So I'm trying to handle that and looking at that I'm like, okay, all of these things are all about cellular health. Everything comes down to inflammation, inflammation, everything. You exercise too much you don't give yourself a break. Constant inflammation. We see these people that do you know marathons, they have a heart attack because the inflammation keeps it up there. There's we're all learning and we're learning about the diet we just come out with this game changer. Oh, you need to be vegan over here. And we've got meat eater podcast and show over here that says now you need more meat and everything. Then we have the media saying oh, this is you need to do your shake weight to get in shape. And, you know, there's just a lot of stuff being thrown at us. I think diversity is the key to all of this. Like all things just like you said. If you only ate cauliflower it wouldn't be healthy. If you only did one type of exercise probably not that your body will adapt.
Definitely. So what this tells me is, there is the media out there with all different kinds of avenues for people to explore exercise. If you have a question about a particular type of exercise, benefits, and or detriments, hit us up KBMDhealth.com. Go to the Connect with us section, shoot us an email and we'll start addressing it here on on the show.
Right on and then I want to start getting a bunch of experts over here. I want to get Gabrielle Lyon, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. Talk about proteins
I think there's an S on the end of that
Is there an S?
I think so. L-Y-O-N-S.
We'll figure it out before she comes off.
Yeah, well. We'll definitely check.
Let's see if we can hit up that Prancercise woman to see if she's still crushing it.
I don't think she's gonna make it.
Jane Fonda's not coming either.
Oh my goodness. So what do we learn today, man?
Man, I learned that you gotta be careful about the way you exercise it. Tony Yuns got a great book out as well as Jason Harris. Playing God by Dr. Anthony Yun, MD. The world's or America's holistic plastic surgeon. And then Jason Harris...
One more plug for Anthony. He's just a cool guy.
Yeah
Like when you read this book, I really felt like I was talking to him.
Yeah
It was written and I know that he wrote it with Alan eyes and stock and helped him write his first book the Age fix. Which I have that one, but this was a really nice fun read. So I encourage everyone to get that Playing God. Go to Atrantil.com take a look at Atrantil. That's our baby right there helping there with the polyphenols. Getting rid of bloating. I mean, nothing is out there fixing people's bloating and we got something we got lightning in a bottle. Have you seen that Key and Peele skit about lightning in a bottle?
No.
It's really funny. Get out, basically, Key, I get them always backwards. He's talking to him. He goes, hey, man, we need to do an app. And he goes, yeah, just a lot of apps out there, but whatever. And he goes, like an app that people buy and they get more and he goes, yeah, but what you're describing is lightning in a bottle. And he is like, oh, I got that. But no, but I mean, it's just it's just a saying it's just it's just a phrase. He's like, no, I mean, I got that. He's got lightning in a bottle.
No i haven't sen that. It's really funny because then it just kind of goes on and on it goes, because this is not he's like we can we can make a lot of money off this. This would be like, this would be like the goose that lays the golden egg. He's like, Oh, you mean honkers?
Of course, you have a goose that lays the golden egg.
So who else we have Jason Harris's Soulful Art of Persuasion.
Yeah, but yeah, but I want to do a full review on that one because that one is super deep.
We'll do that soon.
Yeah, he's got he, I mean very clearly he's, he's been a really good person because he's got a lot of friends that back him up Tim Ferriss, Ryan Holliday, some people that I really respect, read a lot of their books. And, and you know what's really fun I like opening a book I just forgot how much I enjoy sitting down, doing some charts, having a cup of coffee, I'm trying to get into my routine. One of the things that that most successful people do is that they have a morning routine. And I'm going to start making this part of my morning routine, just read X number of pages from a from an actual book hardcover.
It's a lot easier on your eyes than the screen. No doubt good.
Dude I'm not gonna blow an eye hole doing that.
No, no, no valsalva retinopathy here. Getting all the way through that. Hey, last but not least KBMDhealth.com. By the time you're listening to this podcast, we got a real processor.
Oh my goodness, that means that we're gonna we're gonna pass on our frustration and the fact that we've had have been so patient, so we're just going to celebrate, it's going to be like confetti, just CBD bottles falling out of the sky...
There's roughly 1000 of you that have continued to stay with us. Thank you. Number one, y'all have allowed us to keep this show going, but everyone will be rewarded. So thank you so much.
Absolutely.
Well, what do you think?
It's fun. So, you know, we're still working on the green screen. I'm having a lot of fun with this we're just you know, this is a this is a work in progress. And I'm getting some really good feedback from people though.
Yeah.
I've got a lot of my patients that I just want feedback from everybody out there. We want to know what you want to hear about what we want to talk about. I want to talk about, here's some topics I'm thinking about for the future. Number one, let's get back into the peptides. It's pretty wild.
Yep.
Let's bring a peptide expert on here. Maybe the CEO of Tailor Made Compounding. I want to talk about a cool molecule called sulforaphane.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
There's a lot of info there for sure.
Ton of info there. We can get the CEO Brock Elite to come on and his scientists, that's really cool. We want to get the always...A very interesting thing. I realized that when I say life hacking, it almost has this cheating aspect or cutting. That's not it. I just want to do things more efficiently.
Right.
Like that. I don't want to be on a treadmill for 60 minutes hoping that I'm going to lose some fat. I want to be on a treadmill for 60 minutes knowing full well that I'm staving off dementia, probably killing some cancer cells, and helping my overall cardiovascular health knowing that it's changed my perspective on cardio.
And I also think that here pretty soon with things worked out in our favor, it may or may not happen here in 2019. But we may have someone on pretty soon that can help us. How do you articulate messages of health to people in your family, most notably the people that you're raising. So if you're a parent, and you want to get your kids to learn to buy into new messages, and you just call them hacks, but really it's just returning back to the healthy way to live. Right? It's not really cheating and cutting corners. It's, hey, this is really what we need to be doing for ourselves.
Well, that's pretty much what the Game Changers is trying to say is if you go vegan, that's a hack on life. You know, you're going to do this and that and so but I mean, everybody likes to use that word. I know that, you know, Dave Asprey. That's his whole thing on the bulletproof brand is to, you know, life hack himself to be 120. And, you know, it's all about health span, not about lifespan.
Yes, I completely agree.
And one of the things I want everybody to take this, this is the last thing be be social, social, being looking in your phone, create stress, you can below your eye hole, but more importantly, you're missing out on an opportunity to socially engage with somebody that researchers have now shown. If you are isolated and not engaged socially, it's like smoking cigarettes. More importantly, might learn a little something from somebody, you might be able to turn around and the person right behind you in line at the at the bank or the grocery store. Whatever said, hey, what's up, it's kind of fun. I normally don't like I'm changing my attitude. I'm changing my attitude on waiting in line. If you're at TSA, turn around, be like, it's not very fun not having no shoes on is it? Turn around the person and just say, hey, well, we all have to be here. Everybody makes it more miserable by by doing that. That's gonna be my goal. And then ultimately, I want to have this journal where I can just turn around and if I meet somebody cool. Just be like, man, that's awesome. I was eating at a I was having some lunch right over there by KBS headquarters right before I went in for a meeting, met this really cool guy who's former Air Force was in Japan and you just like, start talking. And he was he was our waiter, and he's got great stories. Just amazing stories. Some we had Brandon Brown on our show.
Oh, yeah.
I just met him and I'm like, yeah,
From flower child?
From flower child, great stories. Everybody has great stories. Everybody has a story. I want to hear yours. I would love for people to start sending some stuff. Often saying, Hey, I got a cool story wanna hear it? Yeah, I do.
Well, we're turning this podcast out on the week of Thanksgiving but it doesn't have to be holiday week free to reach out to a neighbor. Check on somebody. So remember, engage with someone Have a good day. And you know, you'll think you'll feel better for it.
2-4 in the books?
2-4 is in the books that is episode number 24.
So let's so let's see, let's see, let's see what happened. What happened what happened.
I'm just playing I'm just playing. So that was dumb. So that's gonna be the end of episode number 24. We'll see ya'll next time.
Bye bye!
Alright, welcome to the Gut Check Project. This is episode number 23. You're here with your host, Kenneth Brown, MD. And I'm Eric Rieger. Let's, uh, let's talk a little about what we got going on Ken.
Well, we're, like always we're trying to push some boundaries. And one of the things that I see as a doctor is that I want to make sure that my patients are very healthy, both mind and body. And when ever my patients come up, and they're going through a stressful situation, they manifest it in their guts. And one of the most common things I see that I can't help them, which is why we brought our guests on today is that when people go through financial trouble or when they're stressed out about their money, they can manifest in their guts. They show up with all kinds of stuff so they end up at a gastroenterologist office, and I can't give them any real advice on their finances and how to help them with that. So like we always do with the Gut Check Project. Let's bring him in. Let's check our egos at the door and let's learn a little bit.
We got some experts here with us today and that is Mr. Patrick Brewer and Mr. Tim power both from Surepath Wealth.
Yeah.
Thank you guys for coming up all the way 35 to Dallas from Austin. How y'all doing today?
It was a joy. Well, we didn't die. Yeah, that's the first step.
We made good time on a rainy Thursday morning.
Now, that being said, I know that you said we didn't die. But Tim said, but if you would have your family would have been covered.
They would have been covered. Yeah, least 3 million. Maybe more than that.
So Surepath Wealth Management. It's far more than just taking care of someone's finances. Correct?
Yeah, I mean, the way we think about it, it's similar to being a doctor, right? And you have a holistic approach and you want to solve the person's problem. And sometimes they present with one issue that they think is really important, you know, they may have some issues with their their stomach or I'm not going to pretend to know exactly all the things that people could present with. I'm sure there's some, some strange ones out there, but they present with a particular problem. And they you know, that's what the that's the problem that thye think they need to have solved but in reality it's it's more than that there's other things that are contributing to the initial problem and making it worse. So our role similar to a physician, I think, is to lay all the pieces of the puzzle on the table and then start to assemble them and really get to know what's driving our clients and or people in general, and just figuring out what their motivations are and what they're trying to accomplish. And then, once we have a good sense of that, just putting it all together and hopefully solving the problem.
Absolutely. I mean, there's a lot of similarities. I mean, people come to you people come to me with very intimate problems. People come to you guys with similar issues.
Yeah,
When people somebody shows up to your office, they're saying, I'm going to give you my world, the world that much like the great prophet Kanye West said, money isn't everything but not having it is. And so when you get to the point where they're like, look, I've got this What can I do to grow it? What can I do to not lose it? That is one of the most vulnerable things just slightly less vulnerable than somebody taking their pants down and letting me stick a finger in their butt.
I don't know. I mean, I think it's about equal.
For some people that can be really stressful, there's some there's a lot of shame around money. There's it's a very intimate discussion, because you don't know the beginning of the conversation, what their experiences have been. Maybe they've made some poor decisions in the past, and they're reluctant to admit those, maybe there's some controversy with them and their spouse, they could view money differently the way they were raised, and the way that they think about money in general about how they could use it in their life or even their preferences for what they're going to do with it and retirement or when they pass away and they want to leave a legacy, do they not? So there's all these embedded psychological and emotional factors that go into how people interact and make decisions about their money. And the first step, similar to being a physician, I think is to peel back the onion a little bit and see what are what are the driving forces here that are actually contributing?
I want to get into all that Eric, can you explain actually that it isn't exactly like we just bumped into you guys on the street. Can you give a little history as to why we have these two super smart guys here on the show?
Sure. So we are a part of a mastermind group and Tim and Patrick both happen to be a part of it. The reason why we joined that entrepreneur group is we're all aligned from the same orientation that we want to be able to serve our fellow man the best way possible for us through healthcare. It's how do we reduce stress and increase health for y'all? It really is, just as you said, Patrick, it's a holistic approach to managing your own wealth and finances. And the great thing that I've seen and learned from both of you all over the course of the last year is you treat your clients like family, because this isn't an opportunity to shame someone with their previous financial troubles, etc. The thing I found really interesting though, is you and I have talked over the last several episodes and over the last several years about how can you help someone reduce their external stressors, right? Because by having that you lead insomnia, you lead to catecholamine circulation from high stress situations. So we've talked about people that regularly see a doctor usually end up decreasing chance of disease they, they come in to see a gastroenterologist, they're usually not going to have a polyp that turns into a cancer because it'll be detected. So what I found kind of interesting is someone who turns to someone for wealth management actually has less potential to gamble. They actually are better prepared for their financial future, obviously reducing stress so they reduce stress, they reduce their risk of bankruptcy, regardless of their income level. And then obviously, their family conflict is reduced. I don't remember what the crazy stat is, but it's well over 70% of marital strife comes in originates from some element of financial problems or disagreements in the first place, simply by having someone that I didn't have someone tell me when I was younger simply by having someone help you forecast and help you put your money where it would serve you better will ultimately reduce your stress and work out better for you and your family. So that's how we met Surepath.
I think we just met on the side of the highway.
When no one knows because you muted your mic.
I didn't mute my mic. I said, I think we met on the side of a highway. But I guess maybe we met...
Well, I mean it. And Eric said I was stupid for standing on the side of a highway with a sign that said, I'm looking for better than 8% yield. And you stopped. Let's talk. Because, and I said also, I'm looking to diversify my risk by hiring 20 advisors. And you're like, yeah, let's have a little talk. Yeah. So one of the things that I was really impressed with is you gave a lecture at the conference we're at , and I wrote down a few notes, which was really very interesting to me because everyone tries to outsmart the market. Everyone tries to do this stuff. We want to invest in America, America.
We're Americans.
You said several different things which were really interesting, like how percentage of stocks in the stock market that is outside of America. Can you get into some of the stuff you talked about in the lecture?
Yeah, for sure. So I mean, with investing, there's so much that you can do. And what I found is that investments that they're kind of like a bar of soap, the more you handle them, the less you're going to have the highest level. A lot of physicians, they, they overcomplicate things. So the biggest thing that I've seen is the desire to have passive income, which I think is great, you should pursue passive income, you work really hard and you should have investments that are working on your behalf when you're asleep, and you're not having to trade your time for dollars or scale up really complicated like multi specialty surgery centers. There's, there's ways to generate passive income that put you in a position later on where you don't have to work as hard. But what I've what I've seen is in our industry, when you start to take things that are really complex, different investment processes that could be really complex and you start to layer them into your portfolio, you start to drive up expenses, you start to drive up something called turnover, which increases your taxes, and you start to drive up your tax and your legal bills, because then people have to figure out what the heck is going on in order to give you advice. So what I've found is that most people, physicians or otherwise would be best served by starting with owning every single company in the entire world. You know, a lot of people just focus on the companies in the United States. And they're like, well, I own a couple stocks or I own, you know, the s&p 500. And when we think about the markets, we always ask like, well, how's the s&p doing? How's the Dow doing? Well, the Dow is only 30 companies, and yes, and s&p only 500. But there's over 12,000 stocks all around the world. And what most people don't realize is that only 44% of the global market cap is in the US. There's actually more stocks available outside of the United States and there's a lot of benefits to holding securities that move differently during different periods of time. So we generally talk to people about international and even emerging markets investments as a way to increase the returns potentially diversify and expose themselves to different areas of the world that might move in different directions in the US.
I just want to make sure that we get Tim in the picture here. He keeps leaning back further and further.
Relaxing back there. Listening.
Great tea.
It's Yeah, this is actually really good stuff.
Well, let's talk about that real quick. So what do you think about this tea that we've had here?
Think I burped three times.
Yea it's really good.
I quit drinking beer three years ago, and I love the taste of this because it tastes like a beer. Yeah.
Yeah, there's not a drop of alcohol in it whatsoever. It's tea with with some hops in there. Thanks to Lovich.
Yeah.
Introducing this.
Boulders finest too.
Yea. Straight out of Boulder, Colorado.
Yeah. So let me ask you a question. So as somebody who tried So I have my own company Atrantil Atrantil go to lovemytummy.com/spoony still are we doing? We are all right, lovemytummy.com/spoony or go to KBMD for your CBD. So as somebody who is a physician that has tried to raise money for a startup, yeah, I was a little bit shocked. And then when you and I talked a little bit where you said, Yeah, well, physicians tend to do some of the most esoteric investments and not be not actually tend to be patient and do exactly what you're saying, just invest in every company in the entire world. And eventually you will win. Yeah, in the long run. So when I was over there out there trying to raise money and like, this is an opportunity. Yes, it's a startup. But it's in a field, you know, it's a you know, we can sit there and do this and we can grow it. I was absolutely shocked at the conversation that I had most of the time was, I would love to, but I lost 50 grand and an emu farm. I tried to do you know, I lost money in three restaurants and I'm like, What are you doing in the restaurant? By the The time doctors get asked to do investments and stuff like that. I pretty much think the good money is already out.
Yeah,yeah. I mean, unless you're like an early mover you have controlling most private investments, the people making the money or the the managers of the private investment i mean if you think about it, right, they've put together a deal. And on average, just take private real estate as an example, you have private real estate investments. There's actually huge public real estate funds and the public real estate funds have way better liquidity. They have the same types of properties. On average, they're better diversified because they have properties across different geographies and different scopes, buying power and they're mark to market so they trade every single day. So you have full liquidity on that. But if you take a private real estate investment, it sounds a lot sexier, like I buy private real estate, and I get 8 to 10% rate of return. But what you don't realize is it's not repriced every single day. It's not liquid, and the people that are managing it are charging you a pretty significant management fee for finding and sourcing these properties and managing them and yes you may get a good rate of return, but why would you expect a different rate of return in a private investment versus a public investment in real estate? It doesn't make any sense to me. So what I found is that our industry, this is not the physicians fault. Our industry has done a good job of manufacturing products that sound really good, that are actually available in a much lower cost more liquid environment, but it's not as sexy. So if you don't really understand exactly how the markets work and how returns are created, and what a fair return is, you can get sucked into these schemes. And these schemes are what keep you locked in your seat having to trade your time for money. So I love entrepreneurialism. I love what you guys are doing here. It's a fantastic product. I take it myself. I think the key is figuring out what lane you want to be in right and how much money is enough like at what point can you say, I can if I produce this amount of income, I can relax and maybe relax to you or any other position or person listening is I want to go out and build more companies. Well, that's great. Well at least now you have a passive income stream that's coming into allow you to do that where you don't feel like you have to put your foot on the gas if you're not really feeling up to it. So I love entrepreneurialism, I think if you're a physician and you're called to continue to build companies and to continue to create jobs and do those things, that's absolutely where you should put your time, your energy and your money, you just want to make sure that you don't get pulled into some type of a scheme that isn't really designed to enrich you. It's designed to enrich someone else.
I think, during your lecture, the way you described, that is first achieve stability, then go for growth.
Yep. Yeah, you want to you want to figure out a baseline, you want to know, you want to make sure that you're protected. You have a sufficient asset protection in place could be insurance, it could be estate planning, trust, things of those nature. And then it's really like what what's the baseline living expenses for you to be able to be okay, and then after that, you can take, you know, strategic investments and growth and that might be in yourself. It might be in your business, it might be in the markets, it might be in real estate, a lot of it just depends on your preferences as far as how hands on you want to be?
Yeah. Let me throw this to Tim. So we, at that same meeting several questions. So the thing I like, let's get back to why I think doctors don't do this, which is the same reason why people come to me. And at times, I'm like, why didn't you come to me sooner? And it's the same thing. It's, I'm, I'm embarrassed. I'm whatever. Like, it's embarrassing to sit down with people. And I'm, I'm technically a highly educated person went to school a long time doesn't mean I'm highly educated.
No, it doesn't.
I didn't go to i didn't i didn't go to Texas Tech. So I'm already starting lower than everybody else.
Yeah, it's not your fault.
You were born in Lubbock, but you ran away.
I know. So you know, had I had I been gifted to be able to go to Texas Tech. Things would be different. I wouldn't be on the podcast right now.
Yeah, you can be the sidekick like me.
Tell us toto.
So, but it is it is really interesting because what I would I'm embarrassed that I have this, you know, whatever, however many years of education and I I'm gonna say, should I get whole life? What the heck is my wife? Simple things like that, that to you is like no big deal.
Well, it is. I mean, it took me years to figure out what was behind the curtain of some of these products that Patrick was talking about earlier. I mean, they there's this incredible sales training to get folks into these products that seem very good for your family, you're protecting your family, you're doing all these great things, but there's all sorts of underlying fees and costs and limitations to access in that money. And so I think a lot of times we we get products pitched at us they sound like they solve a number of problems with one deal so it's great you know, cuz I don't have the time to deal with 15 different things so perfect. This one thing does it all and and then you don't even know really what you're in or why you're in it. 10 years later, you like what happened to this thing? You know, and it's yeah, so it just it's not part of a plan always. It's got to you know, planning has to be part of a plan just like diet does. So yeah. Whether or not you should have whole life term life or universal life. I mean, it really just comes down to what your needs are, how much money do you want to put away, if you've already maxed out all these other areas, maybe you can use some. But it's also a great tool for like estate planning or tax preservation and things like that. Because insurance offers immediate leverage, it kind of buys you time to build up $10 million in assets, you can just buy a policy for $10 million, and you're immediately worth that.
Explain that a little bit.
Yeah, so insurance offers an incredible benefit. I mean, if if, if you are your life right now, as a physician, you have what I would call a massive human capital. So if we were to look at a pie chart,
Look dude, I'm trying to lose some weight. I don't really consider myslef...I'm working on it.
I mean, stressed I got several companies.
You can can barely fit at the table.
You know, I got I got a great solution, but so no, the so your life is part of your investments. And you're a big part of that because you have a human capital, you have a big investment in you and so that's a risk right there. So the rest of your portfolio should be weighted appropriately. Because you don't need to take on a ton of risk because you have a risky profession. And you could have all sorts of liabilities in there. So we look at the whole picture. And if you needed to protect that risk of your human capital, what it's worth call it $10,$20, $30. And you pass away young and you leave your wife and children on the lurch, and they don't have all that future income coming in. You could have solved that problem by buying a life insurance policy and just immediately having a you know, $3 million policy sitting outside or $10 million.
The problem is like when you're first coming out of school, and you're really busy, and you're trying to do a million different things, and you get approached by someone who tries to use a product in order as Tim said, to solve your problems and then you get a bad taste in your mouth because you're like, wow, I bought this product that didn't work for me and it's just it's it's not really the physicians fault and it's not really the financial services person's fault. It's the system. The system manufacturers this because you have someone who's really busy a lack of attention, and they believe that everyone else is about is out to help, which is the physician because that's their out to help generally, right. So they project that image on to other industries. And then you have the financial services industry, which is originally created to monetize people's lack of attention, right? So they find people that...
Monetize people's lack of attention
They put a lot of time into these things, like oh, yeah,
It's like, I'm busy, you know, give me a product and you're like, okay, yeah, we'll manufacture something for someone who's busy, who doesn't want to do the due diligence and doesn't want to do the hard things, right. The way I think about it is, you know, going to the gym and lifting weights consistently and eating healthy versus getting the steroids shot. To me, products are kind of like the steroids shot. In most cases. It's like, I don't want to do the hard things like have conversations with my wife, I don't want to think about where I'm going to be in 15 or 20 years. I don't really want to think about you know, saving for my kids college just like give me the steroids shot and I'll be on my way and then 10 years later, you didn't step foot in the gym and you're like, man, I'm all kind of chunky and I don't look good. Like, yeah, man, you just took steroids and you didn't go to the gym like, of course, you're going to look bad. But it's it's kind of like, it's an unfortunate situation that that is really transpired between, you know, the medical field and then financial services. But I think we're starting to come full circle. And the reason why is there's a lot of really great financial advisors and wealth managers, and a lot of them are in kind of hiding in secret because there's so many advisors out there that say their financial advisors, but there's a collective group, I would call it about 40,000 around the country that are CFP, use fancy words like fiduciary, you know, and they really take into account everything that's going on in someone's situation. So if you're lucky enough to meet one of those folks, it's usually a little bit later in life after you've kind of had one of those situations where somebody kind of burned you with the product. But at that point, you know, you're able to slow down and create enough space and both of the parties at that point are in a position where they can really help each other.
What about for someone who isn't trying to bridge the gap between a high income level such as medical and still knows that they need to seek wealth management or financial management or they happen to be coming right out of school and they haven't even put together anything. How do they find someone to turn to?
That's a challenge.
Yeah, it's a really great question. There's a couple organizations that I'd recommend people check out. There's one it's called NAPFA. NAPFA.org I believe it's National Association of Financial something. But they're all advisors had been vetted out they're generally fee only they tend to do what is in the best interest of the client. So I'd say that's a really good starting point. But choosing an advisor is kind of like choosing a doctor, right, you know, your bedside manner. That's really important. It's hard to evaluate that through a website, you know, or through credentialing. You know, I feel like trust is a fairly simple equation. You know, I've read it in a book it was a couple years ago, but it's stuck with me. And I think this holds true for any service based profession, but trust is really credibility, plus reliability plus intimacy, divided by self orientation. And if you're a physician and you're only prescribing one, one drug, let's say, you know, you have a very high level of self orientation, because let's say that you get kickbacks for that drug. I know you guys, and this doesn't have it's not common practice and practice at all in your industry. But in our industry, like maybe somebody is maybe somebody only has one or two products, right? So they have a very high level of self orientation, which makes it a lot harder for them to build trust or to sustain trust. So I think it's really taking into account based on your interactions with with that advisor or that doctor, like, are you picking up signs of credibility? Are you picking up signs that these people are going to be reliable? And then also, are they doing a good job of asking you good questions and understanding what drives you and like, you know, how you think and what you want, right and creating that intimate relationship?
Well, you bring this up, but it's always like, like everything. It's a two way street. So describe to me, both of you, your ideal client.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's...
Your ideal partner. Because it's really because at that point, it's no longer a client. We should be partners in this situation.
Yeah. And and Tim, you can answer this as well. But I would say from from me and Tim, Tim and I, I think every person is a little bit different in our industry, I really like significance driven people that want to do something be bigger than just provide for themselves. So whether that's their family, where they want to build a business to help others, where they have charitable endeavors, or legacy goals that they want to nurture over time, those type of people light me up because there's more opportunities for advanced planning, there's more opportunities to have discussions about things that are really going to help them and frankly, it's just better for the world, right? There's more humans that we can help if we have bigger vision, so I'm kind of a big vision guy, and then I use financial services as as my vehicle to be able to help folks. So that for me, that's kind of my ideal client, but I know you know, I consult with hundreds of advisors around the country and want to have a similar podcast to this focused on the financial services industry, but every advisors a little bit different, you know, some I talked to and they're like, Hey man, I'm feel really called to serve widows and others are like, you know, I really like people, that are getting close to retirement because I feel like I'm great at retirement income and I can counsel those people, as you know, the markets go up and down. So I think a lot of it just comes down to like, what's your frequency? Like, what what type of people really light you up? And for me, it's kind of that significance driven person.
Yeah, I would say very similar in a lot of ways, but it's almost like the law of attraction. If that's such a thing, but where you feel like you're finding other people that are in a similar spot in life, but you can add a lot of value to them just through your knowledge. So I've always kind of looked at the relationship side of things and just going deep with people and kind of hanging in there. And I feel like similar to Pat, like I do this as a mechanism to be able to stay in touch with so many different people and then continue to stay relevant and help them and just win that trust. And it's like the the financial aspects of it and what we make off it, it's, of course, it's there. Of course, you're always thinking like, hey, we have some things we'd like to pay off debt, get a bigger office, all these different things are of course we're human, help the children, you know all those things, but it's very much more about the relationship and seeing those, the trust, build and then helping them and then making a big difference and seeing their accounts doing what they're supposed to do. And there's tax savings in line with what they want to do. And it's just I don't know, it's kind of a anyone that's willing to be open to advice and values that but also sees it as deeper than that. Those are the people I like working with.
That's actually how Eric and I started working together. I mean, one of the things one of the bonds that we have is that we’re both, well, dude, I mean, we're both really into being dads. And I knew that Eric was really into his children. When I went to his house one time and his son gage was on a unicycle and Mac was juggling. Like these these flame things, they weren't lit yet. And I was like, What are you doing? He's like, in case since he is in the same boat as me, where there's lots of risk and if he dies, the family's dependent on it. He's like, I'm not going to leave my family destitute these kids will learn a circus skill before I get out of here. And that's when I realized we're on the same boat. We're going to take care of our families.
We were in the middle of building the spinning knife throwing wheels.
That’s amazing.
It is amazing. Thanks, Tim. Because what we do our side hustle as a family is circus acts. And it is awesome thanks. So anyway.
But that just shows it's similar things. So now this is why I thought we could have you guys on you don't have to do that anymore. You can actually get insurance.
Yeah,
To help with that.
And we lost we lost a couple...
And now you have to admit to being psychotic.
You have to but and we got a cousin that lost a few digits last week. But other than that, it's okay.
Well, go ahead.
Well, the other really thing, the thing that you talked about in your lecture, the other really thing that's good, that's good English.
Solid grammar. Solid
The other thing that really impressed me with your lecture was the fact that you when you with clients a lot of times the spouse is not involved. And you know we already discussed that financial issues can be a real stressor on on spouses and and I was thinking about that this morning I went to an article on investapedia where spouses don't just the six things that are not discussed that you should discuss with your wealth manager mine yours ours Have you actually discuss what is what actual debt didn't even dawn on me that like people hide debt and then get married. And it's like, surprise, there it is. Yeah. personality type saver versus spender power play children. Do you know that it costs $233,610 to raise a child right now to the age of 18? That's a bargain.
Yeah, that doesn't sound anywhere close.
I was like, I think I spent 233,000 on tennis trips last year. No, I did not. That's been sarcastic.
They start making bad decisions and it can get even worse.
Oh, my gosh.
It doesn't say after 18 what that cost is.
Well alright. Alright. You caught me Patrick. I bet on my kid and I lose a lot. So yeah, you're right. Yeah. But it's funny. And then the thing that really hit me on this is the extended family. So at my age, I'm in this sort of sandwich situation where I've got my mother and my father's passed away. My father in law passed away. I've got my mother in law, and I've got my kids and you start looking at this and you're like, Oh, this is you starting to feel a little bit.
Yeah, for sure.
And this is gets thrown into your guys's laps. And so I was very impressed when you said now you got to sit down and just wow, talking about being vulnerable.
Yeah. Saying look, this is everything I have going on right now.
Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, Tim, do you want to take that? I mean, I feel like you've done a great job with a lot of that.
It's huge. I mean, I think pulling we really don't move forward in a planning relationship unless the wife is on board or the significant other and that matter, so we just make sure of that because even when you got the hard charging entrepreneur type that we're working with, and there's they think in their mind like no, no, my spouse doesn't want anything to do with this and, and guys and girls, I mean, it's sometimes the women driving it, sometimes the guy driving it and their spouse is either taken to hear the kids hanging out, doing other things. They just don't want to be involved. But then you get the spouse talking, and you start finding out all sorts of stuff. They just help their mom who went through hospice, she had Alzheimer's, she was alive 17 years with Alzheimer's, it was this long drawn out, you know, event that they had to take care of. So she's got a whole different set of priorities and fears and thoughts about money. And the other person, the other spouse might not even be thinking that. They're just so focused on on doing what they're supposed to be doing that they lose, you know, they forget to pull them in. And so it's important to make sure everyone's on the same page. And then it's a real holistic plan. And then that way, you're making sure that everything's covered and that they have legacy they have charities they want to give to and you're making sure that the spouse is pulled in on that. So good piece.
Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing is making sure that your accounting for both sides of that that sandwich, right? You know, it's easy to not think about the future and just live in the present and not realize what's eventually going to happen. And it's like, we've had a lot of issues where, you know, we've encountered people too late in the cycle, and they're like, Oh, my parents are moving in with me. And we're like, Okay, well, I mean, based on the projections, I don't think there's a whole lot you're going to be able to do if you want to actually provide care for them, it's going to have to be you because they didn't make the decision early enough on in their life to get something and protect them
Is that a really common thing that you're seeing?
I mean
It's starting to become a little more and more.
Yeah cuz people are just living longer at this point. And part of the challenge is long term care is not a product that people want to buy, you know, it's not like, again, it's not a sexy product.
You don't think about someone's like pulling you out of bed.
I could never lose one of my five you know, core abilities right.
We hear guys say it all the time. Oh, my long term care plan is a boat without an anchor or something. And I'm like, what? And you know, it's just a very bad idea of what it is.
Well it just sounds dangerous and silly.
It does sound dangerous for anyone.
That's not to go off on a tangent but that is something that I'm very interested in because when we discuss lifespan versus health span
Mortality verse morbidity.
Yeah, so when you're sitting there talking about these kind of things so as a as a physician what we're trying to do right now is for myself, I'm like when I think about me working out and stuff I think about my my personal trainer is my 80 year old self saying don't do that. That that that looks stupid. Don't do that.
No more no more back squats. You're done. No, yeah,
Well, I pretty much tell my trainer to you know, beat it. I'm gonna try it anyways. This guy next to me just did and I'm sure I can do it.
Load it up, six plates.
So but it is interesting because right now I'm viewing everything as well. I need to be healthy when I don't want to be in a situation. My my whole our whole message is brain gut. You have to I believe that health begins and ends in the gut and I believe that it affects the brain and we have an epidemic of dementia and Alzheimer's happening. So we're having this situation where a lot of people are losing their capabilities. So even if you wanted to have a long boat ride without an anchor, you forgot it.
Yeah, yeah, it's no longer in the boat and you don't even probably own the boat. Someone stole it, because you left the keys out, ya know, like, it's, yeah, we're seeing that a lot more frequently, as you guys probably have noticed an uptick in a lot of what's called inflammation related diseases, and those come into your brain. And then before you know, it's an epidemic, and that epidemic is going to work its way into the financial side. And we're starting to see the outcomes of that now.
There's the link. That is fascinating. That is exactly because if I can help prevent some of that it can help some of your clients down the road.
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, we used to do, part of our company was helping people with Medicare and it was crazy like the people that would come in that lived in more, let's call them like rural areas where they didn't have good access to food they didn't have good access to you know, good information around diet, their reaction time and their ability to process information and just how they could retain information, even in their mid 60s blew me away compared to other areas that were a little bit more affluent where, you know, they had access to food and that type of information. I mean, those people were, you know, whip smart, and they were able to, you know, have dialogues and remember what we talked about I was I think it's going to be a really big problem and it is now I think it's gonna get worse.
An article just came out today, Bill and Melinda Gates are investing in a company to do micro encapsulation of nutrients they can actually get through in a be absorbed, so they can just sprinkle it as a powder in third world countries to try and help with these sort of micronutrient deficiencies. That when I see when I see stuff like that, when you guys are dealing with people, when you say, you know what would be really cool is to work with clients that can leave a legacy. That's pretty cool.
Yeah. Being Bill Gates is probably pretty cool, too.
Yeah. It's his...
Bill, if you're listening we're open for business.
Yeah. Like or subscribe or both.
Yeah, yeah, it is a big epidemic that's coming I think...
Melinda, I'm gonna give them a thumbs up. Are we cool with this? Yeah,
It's tough too with the one last thing on care the care part of the plan most financial plans don't even think about that, you know, they're thinking so much about right now they're thinking about paying off debt and they're not looking at your family's your mom and dad or your mom down the road and how you're...
The interesting thing is like, you would think our industry would be proactive in solving their own financial challenges, right? You think if you're a financial advisor, I'm sure you have your estate planning done. I'm sure you have all of your insurances in line, I'm sure you do proper tax planning, you know, got your investment portfolio property allocated for my, you know, work and
You didn't say Elvis collector plates, which is what 70% of my portfolios and
Well, I mean, you're a great investor. So, you know, we can discuss that later. But you think that financial advisors would be the probably the first one on the list to get their financial house in order, but it's interesting how many Don't Oh, I've been on the consulting side, prior to starting my own firm and just having conversations with these folks and kind of looking through some of the, you know, the numbers and things in their own practice, it's, it's alarming how many people really don't do their own proactive financial planning, even if they're a financial planner, wealth manager. So I think it's, you know, if you're feeling any apprehension to like coming in and having those discussions, I mean, you're really not the only person. Like, it's pretty common.
I just realized that we share a common spot here, which isbuy health insurance, or prepare for the future. A lot of people have to make this choice.
Yeah. Now it's a good point.
And I didn't even I didn't even think about that, that my parents generation did not really prepare for the future. And it's not their fault. They were post World War or my dad was post Korean War. And I don't know it was just they didn't really plan and so
yeah, Yeah, I mean, Social Security's. I mean, a lot of folks are just retiring. And all they have is Social Security and Medicare. And I mean, it's medical expenses are through the roof, I don't need to tell you guys this, so I'm curious to see how we were able to address this problem, I think there needs to be a big change and, you know, outcomes for folks on the health side, because the health really drives your ability to either create or preserve wealth. And the worse off the average American is from a health standpoint, the more they're going to take from the system. And I just see that number keep going up and up and up. So hopefully, you guys can do good work and solve some problems.
That's fascinating. I think that doctors and wealth managers need to be teaming up more and figuring out how, and be much more much more transparent about every
Absolutely. Because even the way billing and all those things, there's so many things we can do now that are much more better outcomes and better for the client. The one other last thing about our parents generation, it's really tough about it all is that they were also conditioned to be very closed. Not every one of them but man. It's really really hard to talk to like, a dad or a mom sometimes and they don't always tell the children what they what they're doing with the money and you try to help them or different things. It's a, they're not super transparent. I don't know what it is, but it's a little tough.
I think each generation has their own challenges. I think, you know, the silent generation is just like very close to the vest, you're not getting any information from that generation, the baby boomers, it's kind of hit or miss, you know, some of them done a great job with planning and others, you know, not so much. I think our generation like the Gen X, Y, I would say Gen X is the type that is reluctant to ask for advice, because they want to seem, you know, like they're an expert. You know?
Gen X is?
Gen X is, I don't know the exact age cuts, but I would say probably like 37 to 50. So early 50s. You know, and and this is really just kind of a heuristic. And this isn't like actual science or anything but just my observation interacting with folks. And then I would say Gen Y is done a terrible job of just saving in general. You know, like, it's more about living in the moment and travel and those types of...
Gen Y is?
20...late to mid twenties.
So this is, so it's Gen Y millennial...
Millennial. Yeah, Gen X is I think, a Gen X. But I think each generation presents with their own set of challenges that need to be worked through. And that's what I've learned over time as, as people walk in, and we have conversations with them, probably similar to you guys, when you meet with patients, you kind of know, generally what to expect and how to open up the dialogue and how to have questions to help them understand kind of the value of, you know, either good eating habits or good, you know, saving habits, depending on kind of the context that you're meeting them.
You addressed a little bit Patrick and Tim, what it's like to have someone who now has a parent whose outliving or outliving the coverage that they thought they were going to live. So we're talking about the health span versus lifespan situation and whether or not as you referenced they're going to move back home. What about the way that things have changed in terms of inflation specific to people as they plan for college now, probably over the last 15 years, and we've seen reports probably over the Last 10 where more and more people at the age of 18 don't tend to move out of the home. So, in other words, how do people retro actively kind of back plan by coming and talking to you on how they can readjust finances, because oftentimes the pride kind of plays into it. They're like, I don't want to look like I didn't plan for this. But the truth is, it's okay to say, I didn't plan for this. Help me get out of this. How do you approach someone like that?
So just so I'm clear and clarifying. It's someone who hasn't adequately planned for some of these expenses, and then they're coming in and how do we kind of help them get through?
Yeah, the environment changed to where whereas when, whenever I graduated was, whether you're going to go to college or service or just going to go and start your own business at 18. You're leaving, and over the last 15 years, more and more people graduate. They they stay at home. It's very expensive. The rate of inflation both for collegiate education is completely changed. I mean, my most expensive year or semester was 1500 dollars.
Yeah.
And that's obviously not going to happen anymore.
I mean, I think it starts with just an acknowledgement that it's a trade off, right. So you there's only so much money to go around. And you need to rank your priorities. And if you have people living in your home, and that's taking away money that you could be putting towards your retirement. I mean, basically, what you're saying is that right now supporting your kids and making sure that those types of expenses are met outranks the priority of saving for retirement and other goals that you may have in the future. But it starts with an honest conversation about what are your priorities, and it is someone else, whether you love them or not, are they hijacking the vision that you have for your life? And are you okay with that? And I think that's really the first step. It's not really like, did you make good decisions or could you make better decisions, it's more, you know, here's where we're at, and it's not for good or for bad. This is a situation that we're in. Let's figure out what we want. If we can figure out what we want, then we can figure out the best path forward. And I think to add on to that, for people that are starting to have kids or maybe have young kids and you know, at some point they may be sending their kids off to college, should they put money in a savings plan for that, should they not? I think a lot of it just comes down to, you know, just being intentional about what you're you want. And then also, you know, what your, your kids may want too because I think that college will eventually decrease in cost. I think there's going to be, you know, opportunities for people to learn skills, and the workplace is rapidly changing. It's getting more competitive, in general to do business. So I think people are just going to be expected to have more skill sets in college right now the structure of it doesn't really lend itself to that. So I think we're going to see more dynamic learning environment, which should cut costs and be on average better for folks around the country.
It's funny when you said to be saving that my I joked about tennis, but I do have a really big tennis family and I remember my son was 8 years old, and they brought in this consultant from England to talk about growth and adolescence. And somebody actually asked of the kids that you coach, how many of them went on to get a full ride scholarship? These are eight year olds. She lost it. She goes, here's a great idea. All the money you're doing spending on traveling all the money you're doing spending on private lessons, everything. Why don't you just put it into a college fund? There you go. And I just went, oh my god. Yeah, that's right their eight and they're asking you about college scholarships. Holy cow. We are. I mean, completely misguided here. So..
Especially with the college system today in a lot of ways it's pretty broken. I mean, you definitely don't learn anything about real finance. You don't learn how to balance your budget. You don't learn about the tax code. You know?
What if you happen to make it all the way through be a star athlete in football and get paid tons of money if you don't have a financial plan? Someone straight out of Austin, not that long ago, was a national champion quarterback has nothing to show for it and netted over 20 something million dollars?
Yeah, I would say most athletes are just the deck is stacked because they have such a short career span, and you get that rapid rise. And they don't get good advice because the people giving them advice are the agents and it's a very kind of...
It's an industry loan, you're loaning it for 5,7,10 year contract.
Just the way that it's structured.
And then it pays it back to the contract owner.
It goes back to exactly what Patrick said, you have to be intentional. You have to be intentional with what you want to do. So if you want your kids to go to school, do something intentional and save for it. If you're going to make it all the way up, be intentional with this nice, this nice cash sum that you have it because it's not going to last forever. And there's no guarantee that even if your kids good enough that they're even going to want to play that sport when they get to school.
Yeah, totally. You know, being intentional because we're talking we jumped right in and just started talking about all the stuff that we want to be excited about which is health and finances and stuff. But the reality is, how in the world did you guys meet? How did you form Surepath. Let's let's get into the stories now. I mean, clearly you guys, clearly you guys know what you're doing clearly you have the best intention of your of your partners, your clients. Now I want to know how this thing even came about how you built this.
I mean, I I'm from Boston, Pat's from Philly area, and I moved down to Texas in 2013 2014. And so I had had a practice up in Boston and my family was that ended up down here in Austin. And so I was going back and forth just to service those clients. And there was an incredible time I was able to stay with some great families, and Finny Kuruvilla and a bunch of people like that who I only bring up because he's disrupting education right now with Sattler College. Their tuitions five grand a year and it's a fully accredited college Finny's a doctor and everything went to Harvard and MIT. But anyway, so I got to meet a lot of amazing people build some incredible community and things. But during that time, when I would come back to Austin for a few weeks, had a lot of downtime. I was going through a lot of family transition and things like that. So I started volunteering at a prison. And every Tuesday morning for about two years, I would go down there. And, and it was like towards about 18 months in. One of the lead guys in the prison ministries wife was a big financial advisor in town, and she wanted to talk about working together. And I'm like, that'd be great kind of having my practice here. And so let's talk. So, another new volunteer overheard us talking in prison, and they were walking into the actual prison to meet the men in there that we would meet with every week. And the new guys like, Hey, I heard you talking in the lobby, like what do you do? And I'm like, I don't really network at prison, but I will tell you, I do a little finance and things
And then I walked up in a jumpsuit.
That makes total sense why you guys felt comfortable stopping with me while I was holding the sign.
If we can get this guy 10%.
But anyway, long story short, he said, you ought to meet my partner. We do some Medicare things and he's a great guy. He's a CFA and a CPA and I'm like, Medicare CFA CPA. Interesting. So yeah, I'll meet I'll absolutely meet with him. So the next day I went and got a haircut and met with Pat and we just really hit it off. We were at Whole Foods in Austin it's about a coming up on February's of 2016 is when we did that.
Did they give you a release?
A temporary release, I had to wear one of those weird anklets. And I have like a guy following me.
But yeah, so we met there. And then I think really just Pat was unwinding some other companies. He just moved back to Austin. He was doing some stuff back and forth in California another wealth management firm. And where I was at in life where he was at, like we started sharing some clients and ideas and before you know it, he's like, hey, man, here, the new business cards, website, everything like whoa, man, okay, this is awesome. And I didn't realize that he was as hard charging and together as he was, I mean, I knew he was but it was pretty impressive to see what he had already built out. So I left my other practice and full time we started Surepath. That was July 1 of 2016. And so that's how we met just a lot of good similarities in life. He's a bit nine years younger than me or so but about 20 years smarter than me. So it's a really good partnership.
But that didn't prevent y'all from sharing some toilet wines. So that's pretty sweet.
True.
So that's, that's my side. You might have a couple of little details in there. But I think that's...
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great summary. I would say that, you know, what attracted us together I think, was just the the different skill sets. So Tim is like, great at meeting like if you're, if if you're a physician, and you go and meet someone, and if let's say Tim was a physician, and he would walk into the room, he would, every person would like him, like, in like two seconds, they go, Oh my god, I love my doctor. He's great. So Tim is great at building trust very quickly. On the relational side. I am more strategic and analytical. So I like to focus more on the practice and making sure that we're, you know, structuring everything correctly with like taxes and investments and financial planning and just better controlling the outcomes for folks and doing everything we can to deliver on our promise which is to help them reach the goals. So it's just a great combination where you know, I would, I get drained if I have to be in front of people like 10 hours a day, but Tim will be in front of people for 12 hours a day and then he'll go talk to a fence post for another 6.
I'm sorry! I'm aware of that but it's just a...
Alright seven seven hours.
You want me to pull the splinters out or what? I gotta go talk to this dandelion.
You're really going out with that guy? yeah, yeah he's a good dude.
Okay, so great story about Tim is when the last time we were all together we're listening to live music. Remember, Tim took off to go to a friend's wedding up in Boston.
Which shows which which in itself just shows total loyalty. which is...
Total loyalty to your friends because you left that morning to go yeah, what's up Matthew don't know you. But I know this guy loves you. Because he left early in the morning from Salt Lake and then suddenly, he appears late night while we're listening to Christian Mills bands, right?
Yep.
And then...
They're doing a Stones cover I think yea,
Yea Tim rolls up with his with his beanie on and then...
It was cold that night. It was snowing.
Well wait, let's let's go ahead and paint the picture a little bit better. It's on the top of a mountain.
Yes.
Very top of the mountain.
I could barely breathe.
Yeah, high altitude sickness potential
And much like Ron Burgundy here comes.
But it was also kind of set up in a way that the top of the mountain had like different camps so if you want to be down at the campfire if you want to be at the live music, so I was kind of hanging out at the live music for most of the night. And then I just heard it as I was walking by it was loud. I mean, you can hear the on top of the mountain but it was yes. And then I'll stop talking.
You know what, I'm gonna disagree with that because basically I saw your Uber barely make it up to the top mountain. Then you jumped out you're like I told you to wait till I got here.
You pulled your your harmonica out of your sleeve and...
You did jam though.
Do you have your harmonica on you?
You know I left it in the car.
Can you go get it?
Yeah.
While we're sitting here talking a little bit. Just keep the mic on you're good.
Yeah.
Even if it's turned on?
Don't go pee or anything and pull a Naked Gun move.
ooh?
I got you muted until you get back.
All right, while we're sitting here waiting, let's talk personal stuff like, what's what's going on like the wife married?
Yep, married. My wife is Brazilian. So we met about 10 years ago. She is a you know, she she was a crazy story. I wish she was here to tell it. But she, she started as a babysitter. She flew over from Brazil was going to school here. So she's an Au Pair program. And I grew up in Philadelphia, you know, we all look the same and Philly, like, you know, and then I'm out for my 23rd birthday. And I'm like, well, I had a couple drinks. So you know, a little bit stronger than hop tea. I look arond and go, you look a lot different than everybody else. So I walk up to her and you know, 23 years old and I'm like, Hey, how's it going? And she's like, couldn't speak English at that time. So, you know, I'm trying to talk to her and she's like, I can't speak English. And I'm like, that's okay.
Did you ask her can you not speak English? Or am I just really drunk?
Yeah, I think it was a combination.
But no she really couldn't speak at that point. And I was like, Hey, can I get your number? Like, can I get you a drink? And she's like, No, she totally shut me down. I'm like, all right, well, I'm going to go then. So I accidentally, coincidentally rather ran into her three months later, at another place like 45 minutes away, and she recognized me at that point. And she could speak so that's that was the beginning of our relationships. So and she went from that to being like the head of sales for a tech startup in in Austin. So she covers like all of Latin America and is always like kind of in the air and manages a team of sales professionals and blows me out of the water.
Next time she goes to Cabo man, that'd be a great trip for you guys but...
Every time she posts on LinkedIn, like I do a lot of social media stuff like of a podcast and videos or I may post something I get like 12 likes, my wife posts one thing 274 likes, like what, how do I how do I capture some of this start.
She's a great woman.
Awesome. Awesome person.
No she's she's fantastic. No kids yet so we're planning on that soon. And I live in Austin, Texas. So I've been there for ever since I moved from Philadelphia really sitting there for about 10 years.
How do you guys like Austin?
We love it. Yeah, not probably not going to move, honestly. I mean, it's one of the one of the things like we're in an industry and wealth management, wealth management industry where I feel like it's important to be part of the community and like, have a physical presence so that we can actually meet with folks. So I do believe that being in Austin is important for our business, but I also really just like it, you know, it's a great, great city.
I saw the other show are you guys actually in Georgetown. Is that where your physical office is?
We have a Roundrock location we're actually getting hopefully a new office here. Like this week or next week.
We're potentially moving spaces down towards downtown so we have a couple satellite offices and you know, but we're getting the main hub which will be fun.
Yea it's a nice place. You'll have to come down. We're hoping to have a nice little setup like this.
That's awesome. Hey, what was the song that you played?
Oh, it was a was a Rolling Stone song and truth be told I don't play harmonica regularly. I just happened to have it in that bag because when we were in Croatia, the acoustic guy in Croatia was playing a lot of really pretty songs and I was like, man, I wish I brought my harmonica because I know I didn't bring mine too so I said I'll bring mine to the next event. So I had it with me and I didn't know if he was gonna be playing it was Christian Mills and it was the other guy with the longer hair... You weren't there you were in Croatia so that's why I brought it so I just had it on me for that reason.
Where did you get the tombstone style hidden gun thing where do like a little spring loaded thing?
Did I do that you know when I pulled it out?
Yeah.
Yeah. You know, well, I was talking to Christian you know, as musician speak you just kind of ,I'm not really a big musician, but I was looking at him I was like, I held up my harmonica and I just pulled it out and then when I went up there...
you know if you play that we can't, we won't be able to layer it on YouTube.
Oh, that's right. You can't just play other people's I was gonna I was gonna play the same song. And let you kind of rock on with it.
It was the Stones? What was what song was it? It was a I forget the name of it...
It wasn't give me shelter.
No, it was.
Are you able to do that?
Yeah, inverted yield curve? That will probably be you.
Yeah.
Well, I was just gonna say what I want to do is hear a little I want to hear a little harmonica. And one of the neat things that we have here in the studio is we've got a whiteboard and I want to ask, I just want to draw out something that is typically kind of hard for somebody some, I'm just a simple country, butt Dr. from Texas. And so I if I could see it on a whiteboard. And one of the things one of the things you were talking about during your lecture was this inverted yield thing and I was like, I don't know what that is but...
I'll give a little intro for the inverted yeild curve.
So let me go ahead and set that up.
This things kind of a little old so...
Some set up music here by Mr. Tim Power.
Oh there's no reason to stop we're just now pulling the curtain back.
There was nothing wrong with that at all.
If the music's playing I can jump in I play a lot better just on my own it's a little harmonica is a little insolated.
That harmonica means the whiteboard is coming out.
Maybe it was a little higher up than i thought. The air was a little thin and all of us were like...
Well with the band like the Christian Mills it was it was just a no brainer so I knew I could get up there and just play anything and it would sound okay.
Well I'm gonna throw it to either guy but it's kind of interesting because inverted yield. I was trying to talk to.
Pretty weird right?
It is super weird. So we got some markers here. I'm going to bring you a camera.
Tim you can narrate while you draw and then Pat, wait I'm sorry, Pat, you can narrate Patrick.
So Tim if you want to narrate or who's gonna draw?
Yeah whatever.
You just move your chair.
I get the cordless mic. Sure. The director's chair.
The director's chair.
And I might move that a little too.
First time we're trying to move. There we go.
You get that okay? Good enough?
Good enough.
Alright.
We're gonna do a whole little lecture on inverted yield and why this is important to understand that so that as we're looking at investments,
You can just draw kind of a vertical horizontal guy. And so you're going to do Time, time over here, interest over there.
Yeah. So time.
Time is going to be on his x axis, and the interest is going to be on the Y the vertical.
So generally, just to kind of set the stage here, because this is actually a fairly complicated topic these guys gave us absolutely no heads up on the inverted yeild card. But usually what you would expect as you go out over time that you would be compensated by increased rates. So for example, let's say a bank was going to lend you money and they were going to lend you for, you know, 15 years, right versus a year. Imagine, actually, let me back up. So imagine you were gonna to lend someone money and and you could lend them an amount of let's call it $100,000 for a year, or you could lend them $100,000 for 15 years. Imagine why would so why would you ever lend them $100,000 for 15 years, if you got a lower rate of interest, then if you could lend for one year, right? So the weird thing about an inverted yield curve is it's exactly that. You can lend in the short term for higher rates than you can lend in the long term. So if you think about it, from an investor's perspective, there's really no reason to take any risk. There's no reason to go out and lend for 10,15,20,30 years out on the x axis, because you're not compensated for doing that risk and return are generally related. So what you would expect is if you're going to lock up your capital, and you're going to land for 5,10,15,20 years, and you're not going to see that back for 5,10,15,20 years, you're going to want a higher interest rate. Well what happens with an inverted yield curve is you actually get a lower interest rate, which is counterintuitive. So it's the market generally signaling that interest rates are expected to fall in the future.
So where where does that signal come from? This is where I'm confused.
So the way that markets price interest rates are securities, it's kind of there's a number of factors, right? So there's supply and demand. There's people coming to the market and saying, I want to lend and I'm, I'm willing to lend and other people saying I want to borrow, right. So part of that is going to drive the interest rate. So supply and demand. The other thing is market forces, right? So you got things like quantitative easing, and have happened, you've got, you know, just fluctuations in, you know, how how liquid capital is, and how available it is money supply. So there's a lot of factors that could potentially go into the shapes of the yeild curve. But there's really no explanation that is 100% accurate to say how the yield curve is going to shift or change. It's very, very hard to predict changes in the yield curve. So really the only thing that you can do is act based on the information that's available to you. And what this yield curve that Tim has so beautifully drawn up here tells me as an investment manager is, I'm not going to take turns, it's called term risk. There's really no reason for me to go out and take term risk, because I'm not compensated for it. I'm not willing to lend for 10 years for 1%. I'd rather lend for 10 years 1% I'd rather lend for one year and maybe get three to four. Right? There's, there's no reason for me to take that bet. And the interesting thing is, yeild curves, if you look at the data, they can also have some predictive power as far as how financial markets are going to go. This is a this is a, a bad sign, generally a inverted yield is a bad sign.
Yeah, so so we have an inverted yield. And I just sold my business. And somebody just gave me a check for $10 million. And I walk up to you and I say Patrick, Tim, I want you guys to help me manage my money. Here's $10 million. What do we do?
This is I mean, so it starts with figuring out what you want. Right? So this is where that process comes in. Like if anyone gives you an answer that question without first doing a deep dive and saying like, what do you want, you wanna start another business, like where you going to all these this is like a multi meeting process. But let's say we arrive and we figured out what your willingness to take risk is, and what your ability to take risk is. Those are two different things.
So we decide we come up with a plan, we realize that we have a great, a great basis, I've got a great foundation, we're now ready to build. And I'm like, look, here's the deal. I'm not ready to start another business. I have this money. I want to put it in the market. Yeah. What do we do with this curve?
With that curve? So you would take virtually no interest rate risk or term risk? So what you would do and there's another curve that you want to look at and basically the credit spread. So you'd want to see you know, are you being compensated for taking credit risk, because credit risk is different than interest rate risk. So we would look at a couple different factors to determine what your your fixed allocation would be in the credit spreads might say, Well, you know, we're actually being fairly well compensated for taking credit risk, but we're not really being compensated for taking interest rate risk, let's build a portfolio of, you know, medium quality corporate bonds that have really low, you know, duration or term exposure, right, really short term. And, you know, a portion of your portfolio could be allocated that way, right. The other thing is, you know, what's your income, because you're, you know, your wife may be earning a huge income, and it makes more sense for you to be maybe in a municipal bond portfolio, right. So, you have to consider that because municipal bonds, they produce tax free income. So, a lot and in addition to that, you have access to lots of other asset classes. So, you know, you you may not have any bond exposure at all in this environment, you know, if you have legacy goals and your income needs are covered, you know, maybe maybe this is allocated to real estate and, you know, public markets in the stock market. So, it could go a number of different ways, but the way I would use this information to build a portfolio, is I would say, Okay, first how much money needs to be in the bond market? Right? So that's the first decision, like what percentage of your assets should be in the bond market relative to all other asset classes? And then from there, how much should be invested in or where should it be invested based on the available bonds and your your goals and tax preferences? So at a high level with that curve, short term, and then the other considerations will be around credit exposure and also tax preferences.
Now that's really in depth. And obviously, just to reiterate, you're saying if somebody comes to you and has an instant answer more than likely, are they not only interested in your future and what is that you want...
I think a good cut on people's ability to advise you in general is you draw an inverted yield curve and ask him to explain anything about what that is.
I did not. That is that is the naivety of like, like, I'm usually scared when I give lectures. If I give it to med students and below, because they ask the hard questions, they just raise your hand to go. How? Oh how?Yeah.
If there was a way to predict movements in the yeild curve, like it would be, you know, you would start to see a lot more active bond managers outperform. But it's just it's interesting because it's kind of like the stock market, right, you don't know... it's very hard to guess what's the most efficient pricing mechanisms in the world, because it's taking into account supply and demand factors. It's taking into account all public information because people make trades on public information and what sets the price is people coming together in an arm's length transaction and agreeing that this is a fair value, because for every buyer, there's a seller, so for every person that loans money, there's somebody who's borrowing money for every person that buys a stock, there's somebody else selling the stock. So that's what ultimately sets the price and creates those curves. And all that is is really just, you know, what are we pricing these bonds at relative to what people are going to pay for them? And that's what really creates the yield curve and People basically telling the markets that I'm not really willing to take any level of term risk right now it feels very uncertain, uncertain for me to lock my money up. And it could be that there's a lot of people that have are basically pushing the price of these bonds down. Because they are, they're worried about what could happen. So this could be a signal, it could be people being, you know, overly scared about, you know, the direction of the markets, and they've kind of bid up the price of these bonds and pushed interest rates down. So there could be a lot of different things that are driving this. And you know, there's hundreds of academic you know, white papers and research papers that address these topics. I think what a lot of people don't realize with investing is it's very, very heavily researched and studied. So it's really not, you know, the beginners game to like start kind of picking and choosing things. That's why I always when people say I pick stocks, it's like, oh, man, I feel sorry for you, my friend.
One thing I was thinking while we had this pie chart up there too Ken is is that people undervalue what their business is when it comes in comparison to all their other investments, they they know this is an investment and they'll say it all the time we meet with them, like oh my business is my retirement plan or my business is my big investment. But they actually don't have a current valuation. They've never done that. So they're guessing or they're leaving it up to other advisors to do the guesswork. So we strongly recommend this as a foundation for all our business owners to start with this. And then this can inform their other advisors because like with us, we don't always control all parts of the relationship, right? They might have another CPA, they love, an attorney, they love a financial guy they love but they still want our guidance. So we don't want to ruin those other relationships. But if we start with a solid business valuation that immediately wins trust with their CPA, and their a tax attorney. And then it makes they're like, who are these guys that put that together? And they're like, that is legit, and we have a master appraiser that is does these so it's pretty amazing. But then once you know this, that can better inform your decisions on how much you want to tie up other monies into other things. I know you were talking about the sale of a business, but at least this can help you prepare are a little bit better. And a lot of business owners don't have that. So...
That's actually incredible information. And I don't want to put you on the spot before we end up wrapping this podcast up. But there's a different, there's another graph too...
I'm just gonna go on record again, I didn't know enough about that to realize it was a complex question.
He could on a...he can hit like a rain man button.
It's hard. It's harder for me to make it simple than to go into all the weird stuff about it so...
Well then the next one should be a little bit more simple, at least I think, but it's the CCWF value graph. Have you ever done that collectible Civil War figurine graph? We've got a lot of civil war figurines around my house that have been passed down from generation to generation. And what I would like to know is, is you know that we've got two Stonewall Jackson's, we've got, Ulysses S Grant. I mean, it's, these are important for us because we thought about trading some of those in just for some grants or whatever, and you don't know so the graphs like this help us out, and so...
Figure out how to price that amazing figurine.
If I could find a little bit more about the valuation we have on on Tron, teal and KBMD, the maybe I would know where to put a little bit more...
Big time.
Yeah. And it also informs the decision once you have a valuation that numbers, it sets in a little differently than just grinding every single day. So I mean, if you're a physician, you're building your practice, maybe you have a couple other investment interests, and you're like, aw man, I need to really work hard. And it's like, well, what if all your companies were worth $40 million? And you could find a buyer that was vertically integrated that would buy it in like three months? Would that change your your appetite for risk? Would that change your your perspective on kind of what you're doing every single day? So I think the valuation what we've seen is it just provides a more specific kind of number for them to make those decisions.
I think that's awesome. But let's just I just got instant message.
Oh,
yeah?Eric has a Stonewall Jackson?
That's amazing.
Yeah, I do. And I it's it was purchased, I think for 28.95 back in 1988. I know we were really excited.
You're like the coolest guy on this podcast.
Now we're almost up to $34.
I do not, I was just gonna say it's almost It was $33.98 you just got offered, you made you made a profit. eBay is awesome.
One of the things that during the valuation too is like you might meet with a business owner and they're still in an S-Corp because it was more convenient for them to do that more tax efficient when they were younger. Now they're blown up to a multimillion dollar company and they want to sell it, and then the buyer is like whao whoa whoa whoa you're an s-corp, like we have to unwind a lot of stuff here to do that sale. So you want to make sure that you're preparing for an exit if that's your strategy early on. So a lot of what we do is a lot of that kind of stuff, too.
So you guys have it's under one under one roof, some legal consultants that you work with you have tax...
Tax investments, insurance, we can't legally give investment advice as a as a registered investment advisor but we have an attorney that is moving into our office to be able to provide that as a service to our clients. They said we have to bill separately for it.
We can guide a little bit we can't actually give legal...
It's more just the structure of it less on the actual drafting the documents. We have people that help with budgeting, we have people that help with, you know, if you're getting older Social Security, Medicare, pretty much any transition that someone would go through financially or would require a level of expertise. You know, we've tried to insource that as much as possible because it's hard to control the outcomes with outsourcing because you know, our business, you think about it, helping someone reach their financial goals is really just an exercise in good project management and kind of prodding them along right like once you have the expertise, it's making sure that they're doing the things that they're supposed to be doing as in the same similar to your profession. Somebody shows up and you're like, Hey, man, you gotta cut out the pizza. You got like, you got an allergy to dairy and they're like, Man, I'm just gonna keep eating pizza. All right well...
Well then you gotta I have to make sure that we put plastic covers and all our waiting room chairs, everytime you come to the office.
So what is the best way for people to connect with Surepath.
I would say visit our website. It's www.surepathwealth.com SUREpathwealthcom. You can also Facebook and LinkedIn. But I would say the website is probably a good first step.
And Patrick, you also
I'm gonna say the same thing you are so go ahead.
You also host your own podcast and the name of it?
I do. It's called the model FA, it's a little bit more industry focused, because I also do industry consulting, we're actually launching our own, you know, consumer focused podcast in about two weeks. So that's going to be for business owners. Can be some physicians on there
We'd love to have you guys on that. That would be great
But yeah, so the podcast that I host is called The Model FA
Terrific.
Well, that's awesome, Tim?
Yeah. Yeah. Oh to get in touch with me?
Yeah. Yeah. Do you have anything special that you do? I mean, if I mean, if anybody wants to book you as a harmonica player at their barmitsfa or wedding or anything like that?
Yeah.
I'd say that's probably the best use.
No I mean, honestly. My role mainly in the firm is just staying in touch with folks and getting them aligned with the right people. I understand enough of it all to hold my hold my own, but I don't get as much into the weeds, the planters and things. So it's like we have folks that help out a lot with the...
I may have misinterpreted the story earlier, but you do some fence work as well. Is that true?
He just talks the fence posts?
No, I do a little painting on the side, you know, like late landscape stuff and things.
Tim's just being humble. He's, uh, he's got a 15 year background in estate planning and insurance and structuring like complex tax deals. And yeah, so I'll speak on Tim's behalf because he's being humble right now.
Well, this is fantastic for ya'll to drive all the way up and hang out with us all day.
Aw man, we loved it man. Thank you so much for the invite.
I mean, clearly, this is now I feel a little bit better because what you were just getting into and everything we talked about. I don't have to be embarrassed. I don't know that because we all only have so much bandwidth. There's no way I can learn my profession and pretend like I know that.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, everybody's you guys are experts in your field. Clearly.
Yeah, if we suck, we wouldn't have known the answer to that one at all.
I almost for fun want to have set up another episode. And have another advisor you gotta come on this podcast.
Yeild curve we're just gonna draw one up there and talk about...
Except next time we have you back we're gonna have to dumb it down you're gonna be on that side with sock puppets describing the inverted yield.
Yeah yeah I should.
There we are.
Oh it's because I don't have my phone anymore right?
Oh nice so Tim said goodbye to the smart phone and it is a flip phone.
Oh yeah! Where is it?
If you guys if you guys listen to Episode 21?
Yes 21 with Jeremy Kinder.
Yes epsiode 21 with Jeremy Kendra we did CBD Takeout and we opened the show talking about this guy how much of a boss he was because he had his phone stolen when he was visiting and he switched and has stuck to it for what good month?
Seven weeks. Yeah, maybe six weeks now. It's like yeah.
A flip phone and he's loving it. Explain to everybody why you're digging the whole flip phone thing.
Yeah, so it's I definitely didn't start out to make any kind of statement. Georgia? Sorry, my daughter just called by accident I answered the phone because that's one of the things the features on the smartphone on the flip phone is when somebody calls no matter what if you open it, your on. So that's what I just did to my daughter and I just hung up on her at the same time. But yeah, I was just waiting for you guys to go out to dinner...
A little therapy will take care of that in a few years. It's all good.
I put my, put my phone down at a happy hour real quick at the hotel right in Frisco and turned around to get some more iced tea came back and my phone was missing. So I was about to go out to dinner with you and your wife in about 20 minutes. So I knew I had to just keep it cool and things and the next morning I just got a flip phone and then the 30 hours I went without my smartphone. I started to taste flavors again and see colors that I hadn't seen in about 10 years when I first got my smartphone so I was like I actually liked this I wonder if there's a way to just use my flip phone and then I'll get an iPad to do all my like, like, you know stuff that I need to keep count on and things and do FaceTime with my kids and what have you. So the next day the reason why I waited one day is because the next day after got stolen was the iPhone 11 was coming out. So I'm like I'm not going to get a new phone. If the next day I'll just go use the insurance money and get that I did insurance you always want to do that an $8 insurance policy on it and it paid me back the cost of this iPhone x. So I bought a smart a tablet or an iPad the next day and for about six seven weeks now I've been on that system so I love it but everyone trying in touch with me hates it so it's been know it's it's got some limitations for sure. But I think the amount of energy, space creativity, focus in the moment that I've gotten back far outweighs the extra second I might have to put the navigation into my GPS and things.
"Daddy hung up on me!"
I described the story much differently so tune into Episode 21 where I give my third party interpretation of it.
Yeah, it's good.
Well a shout out to CBD Takeout you can still use KBMD 10 for 10% off at CBD TakeOut for any of their products that they have there. Of course go to lovemytummy.com/spoony and use code spoony to save some money of course go to KBMDhealth.com for your own CBD.
One of the things we were talking about. I was thinking you know, we do have our
Oh yeah. The box.
We have the KBMD health subscription box where we deliver vetted supplements, which actually make a difference in your life. And we were talking before we started the show, like you guys can write a little copy and put it in here. We can send it out to all of our subscribers. So not only are we taking care of their gut, but we're going to start doing some cool stuff like this. Like maybe a little synopsis on insurance or
How to use your HSA better.
How to use your HSA better anything like that. Yeah. So this is what this is what we love about like minded people getting together you guys making the effort to come up do the podcast. Love it. Thank you so much.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you to the listeners for tuning in. We hope it was valuable.
Right on. Well, that's Episode 23. Thanks for checking into the Gut Check Project. Check us out. We'll talk to y'all soon.
Take care.
Take care.
All right.
This is super exciting. We have the 22nd episode of the gut check project. And, unfortunately, my co host Eric Rieger is actually at a conference right now. But we have a huge upgrade. We have Dr. Marisol naturopathic doctor, who is now my co host, and my lead guest both, which is awesome. So, this is going to be a super super, super fun show because what we have going on is Dr. Marisol. We're going to talk about pooping. We're going to talk about castor oil. We're gonna talk about bowel habits. I'm just a simple country, butt doctor, she's a brilliant naturopath. So we're going to welcome Dr. Marisol.
Oh you’re awesome. Ken thanks so much. You're so so so so humble. It's amazing but I have to say you're pretty incredible gi specialist honestly.
That is thank you very much but I'm just I'm just thrilled to actually have a different co host so we're gonna let we're just gonna bounce off each other we're gonna let and let everything roll here.
You're just happy it’s a cuter co-host.
Eric’s extremely attractive. If he'd shave i think that i think we'd have a more of a connection but he just won't do that.
I know. I know he could do that whole Mr. America contest. I'm telling you. I keep telling him to go in it. I love that Dallas accent.
Before we even jump in I just want to ask one one question
Yeah.
How you pooping?
How am i pooping? I'm pooping like a champ. Actually, I'm pooping like a queen. Right?
So sure her moniker is that she is the queen of Thrones which is why, now it's not just because you're here. That's actually how I introduce everyone, as I just asked him how you pooping?
I love it.
And I'll go to family reunions and just walk up and say hey, how you pooping?
You know, that is the most important question that we should be asking people, honestly, or at least asking ourselves every day, right? How am I pooping? Because it's so important. It's like your number, you know, they get I always say, you know, poor poor poo, you know, it has a bad job where it you know, got the number two label right? Like, why is it not the number one like, in my opinion, poo is number one, not number two, the most important thing that comes out of your body
And you know, this was completely planned, but this is Episode two two and we've got the queen of number two.
I love it.
This is awesome.
You know, synchronicity at its best. I'm telling ya. Yeah, that's an important question. Honestly. That's what that's what I've been asking myself for the past, gosh, 40 years of my life. Right?
So you did this in utero? You're asking questions.
Oh, you're so sweet. No, no, I'm definitely over forty. But because I poop well, I do look younger and better and I feel better than I did otherwise. Right? And when I was younger I really suffered with digestive problems like constipation. My mother was constipated constantly. You know, my father had IBS it was we were just a bunch of problems in the butt. Tt was just gosh, everyone always a bathroom occupied. We only had one bathroom in those days.
At home was in Ontario Canada?
Yeah, Ontario, Canada, right back up northern Canada. So we were isolated in the very north in the mining towns.
Oh, my goodness.
Very interesting experience growing up there.
Lots of family members coming out of the bathroom going, Oh, that didn't go well ay?
That's right. So for us, you know, that conversation was very, very open. We would talk about it at the kitchen table, we would talk about it everywhere. And then I would remember going to a friend's house. And then I started talking about it or say something to a friend of mine and they'd be like, Oh my God, you're so weird. Why are you talking about poo? And I'm like, I don't know it's interesting, and it's what we talked about. Right? There was a common converstation at our home. It was really it was really interesting. And I keep on you know, what really changed my life though was Oprah and Dr. Oz. Ironically, the the that show they opened, I think Dr. Oz was just going on The Oprah show for a couple of episodes. And he went on in one of his first episodes. And what he did was a huge explanation about what you're poo is saying about you. And that day when I watched that episode, something in my heart lit up. And I was just looking at him like a child in the candy store, like I just was amazed by what he was talking about, and how there was actually things you could find out about your body from your poop, and it just set me on this trajectory on this pathway to really always constantly be looking and investigating my poo and because I suffered with IBS, with so much digestive problems up until I was in my 30s when I finally you know, figured out my formula to fix it. I was looking and learning from my poo, so it was just it's just It's been a really cool ride to get me to becoming the queen of the thrones and what I'm doing now. And the ride on the throne that is.
Let me ask you, so when you watch this episode with Dr. Oz, were you a naturopathic doctor at the time?
No. Oh my gosh, this is talk to that we're talking like 19 I think it could be like 1992 maybe earlier like I was around 11. It was it was early on in my life. Like it was a point, a foundational point in my life where that something just inside me clicked. It was like, I want to talk about poop that seems really important to me.
What were you doing at that time?
So at that time, I was a young young kid I was in dancing in my dreams were to become a Liza Minnelli and a doctor. I wanted to be both of those things. My Liza Minnelli dreams got crushed by a dance teacher who said I didn't fit quite in.
Uh huh.
Right? Which you know was now I look at that as the best gift I could have given been given in my lifetime. Because if I fit in, I would not be here talking about poo, let's face it because it was taboo. Righ?t And so what I wanted to go into was, was being a doctor.
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
And so that was, was that the motive to get you to start studying naturopathic medicine?
100% Oh, because I suffered my entire life suffering suffering and you know, your purpose is within your pain 100% of the time, when you you know, you're dealing with something, you're trying to figure out how to make it better. And you and like someone like me, like I I, I'm always looking how to advanced, how to be better, how to improve, and I couldn't get this part of my life improved, because IBS can be a huge beast, you know, because it's not just only what's going on in the digestive tract it's so much more. So I really needed to look at all those things, and I needed I think I needed to take it into my own hands and take it and that's why that's what eventually led me into naturopathic school.
Oh, that's awesome.
So I'm really blessed.
I mean, I think that one of the most common things is that when people in other fields of medicine and I think there's so many naturopathic doctors that really focused on the gut because they realize how important it is. Yeah, I mean, I'm a little bit bias because I'm a gastroenterologist. I say that all health begins and ends in the gut.
But it really is because what I see in my clinic and I'm sure it's exactly what you see, you can't get away from it. If you have a sore knee, you quit running. You go to an orthopedic, whatever, you get a surgery, something like that. But when you have intestinal issues, it's always there. So.
Yeah.
Always. Yeah, it's always there and it permeates your entire life. You're constantly dealing with it constantly thinking about it. Like I'm still in the habit of when I turned in my 20s my IBS shifted from a constipation more to a diarrhea and I'd have periods of constipation, but it was predominantly like explosive I don't know when it's coming diarrhea. I love this. I've never been able to talk so openly about this. You know, like, I'm just like, this is my love my story.
So I want to get into your I want to get more into you as the person.
Yeah.
You in the history. But I want to tell you that you may not even remember this.
Yeah, eah, yeah.
So I met you a couple years ago at mindshare.
Yeah.
And we were sitting around talking.
Oh i remember.
I myself am gluten intolerant to me a long time. Trying to figure it out. So you know, we developed Oh, little bit of housekeeping totally forgot. This episode's been brought to you by Atrantil. Go to lovemytummy.com/spoony or go to lovemytummy.com for a discount code. I forget that my our own product is sponsoring the show. So sorry Chuck. So I did not realize I was gluten intolerant.
Yeah.
Until the person that helped me develop this,Brandi, who's my research manager, we diagnosed her with celiac disease. So I would go out to lunch during work and I would I would eat gluten free sort of to support...
The people.
And it took me a long time to realize that I would not have to rush back to the office because I'd have to use the restroom. Before I'd start seeing people again and she pointed that out. And I was talking to you. I was like, yeah, it took me forever. I would go out on a run and be like a mile out. And then you have this urge to go. You don't know if you should stop and waddle bad or whatever, and that's when...
Or squat.
And then you told me a really funny story that if you're cool with sharing I'd like you to share?
Yeah, well, gosh, I have so many funny stories like that. Are you talking about my Dominican Republic story probably the one on the bus?
The only one that you told me. No, it's one that you had a route and that you would actually squat in somebody's yard.
Oh, yes. That's Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Cuz I mean, I have a around my house, I have a pond. And you know, it would be that it would be explosive, right? I'd be like, suddenly, Oh, my gosh, what's happening? And so I literally have squated in people's lawns and their back lawns, thank God because it's going heading in butt. You know, like when nature calls, you know, nature calls and when, when, when she's calling in that way. It's not. It's not always a call that you love or really want to answer, but you got to do something about it. And you know what I like to this point, now in my life, it's so funny and I'm re patterning this, so up until now. I would always look and see where the bathroom is, wherever I go. Because of that, right? Because there's been so many times that I've had accidents or what have you like when you're suffering I realized you just don't know when it's going to come and it's it's a can be a scary thing to live with.
We probably share very similar patients and when that the trauma that can happen I mean I have stewardesses,pilots, people that are trapped in a, you know, here in Dallas there's commuters and the thought of that just the anxiety of that can actually trigger something.
Exactly it makes it worse and you know, you know how you say like the gut is it all and then begins with the gut. I agree. 100% like, you can't like digestion is how you are digesting your life. Like there is no other way around it like if things are not good in your life emotionally and hence the anxieties triggering an IBS like an explosive diarrhea. Like emotionally physically what have you. It all has started in the gut,all of it.
So my research in you know, I do a lot of irritable bowel do a lot of inflammatory bowel disease. And we got really into I was one of the first doctors that really started embracing worked with Dr. Mark Pimentel when he was I was one of the people that on this study for Xifaxan and things like that and so I was hearing about bacteria, the microbiome like 10 years before everybody else was and now it's really interesting because even my own colleagues still aren't addressing that but the naturopathic world embraced it early on.
Oh yeah, we're all about the bugs and bacteria right? Because we're all about the ecology and how the body is a system right? In conventional medicine. I mean, I love you guys thank God for you guys thank God for conventional medicine. You know what we all benefit from it the the but you you tend to look at it as like one organ system, right? So but we look at it as our as it as like a garden like we're a garden, right? And in the garden, you need things like water, you need nutrients, there's bacteria in the soil. So for us, it wasn't a large stretch to think oh, wow, we should be using like probiotics in our prescriptions because guess what, it's a garden for us. So just like already our methodology about how we think about the human body, and how like in naturopathic medicine, there really aren't specialists. Really we're all generalists, but we just have a focus on certain areas, like some patients, some doctors and naturopathic doctors might have a focus on you know cancer care you know I have a focus on gi just like you so the majority of my patients I see a lot of IBS Crohn's colitis, but I tend to also see things like autoimmune conditions and cancer but you know what I treat them all very similar really because I still start with the gut on everybody.
So you watch this Dr. Oz episode?
Yeah.
Tell me about your history. Like when does one become a naturopathic doctor? What did you do? Just give me the give me the history of the queen of thrones.
Oh, gosh, so so this is the thing so I watched Oprah Dr. Oz I was in a time of my life. I was rounder you know, I was I was, you know, isolated from society, like not society. But from, you know, kids kids didn't like me. I was the strange little Spanish girl who brought sardine sandwiches. It didn't smell good you know?
We know. So. Up in, you know, that was my life back then and...
Were you born in Canada?
I was born in Canada. Yep. So my father's from Spain and my mother's from South America. Where in South America?
Uruguay.
Okay.
Beautiful, beautiful country like it's...
Se habla espanol?
Se hablo espanol. I'm always trying to get my teenage kids to speak Spanish because you know, it's such a gift to be able to speak Spanish,
I've got my he's soon to be 15 year old, I got my 15 year old who is will only speak Spanish at the house. And there are times I'm like
So that's, you know, that's good though. That's good because, you know, Spanish opens up doors in so many different ways. And you know, like I love coming to this in Canada, where I'm at, I don't run into too many Latinos, but when I'm in the States, especially Dallas, and you know, like the more southern states, it's awesome. I love it because I'm constantly speaking Spanish. It's just like, this is great. I want to move to America. I love the states.
I would say that my, my Spanish really took off when I was in training in San Antonio.
Yeah. Almost every patient i saw...
And you know what I see patients because of the languages that I speak. Many of them come and search me out. It's super cool, but back to my story. What had happened was that I you know, I wasn't living a happy life as a kid. I was, you know, isolated from the crowd and I was also very anxious, right, anxiety was a huge predominant factor because of my isolation from the group, you know, I was I was a different kid. And so I was but I got diagnosed with asthma instead of anxiety. And so the medical system kind of failed me when I was younger. And unfortunately it put me on a series of lots of drugs lots of prednisone, which made me go from a you know, a plump cute to a very overweight teenager and it
Why were you on prednisone?
Cuz was I was having such anxiety and but it would manifest and look like an asthma attack. But the doctor never even examined my lungs he never he never did a physical exam
What?!
There was no oh no yeah, this is back in the day. Yeah, nothing was done. So you can imagine my what I thought of the conventional medical system and family medical doctors at that point in time, right I didn't really have very cause here I was, like, you know, medicating with prednisone to reduce my asthma attacks, which I wasn't really every having them it was all anxiety. So I was I was I was the case I was really mismanaged and it is made me gain more weight isolated me more my anxiety got worse as I got fortunately my mom got to the point where she's like you know what i'm done with you taking these drugs and she just pulled me off of them.
How old were you when this?
I think by that time I was around 15-16 so I remember going into high school and still being a bit overweight and then once appropriate the prednisone was gone. My weight started to go down.
And it's not just that it's not just the weight but the acne the inability to sleep that's a horrible drug.
It's a tough drug it was a tough drug to be on as a. I was, the acne didn't affect me. Definitely sleep was a problem. Like so lots of my systems weren't working very well. Right like I like it. My body definitely wasn't happy.
I like it. I like stories like this because it shows you know you said that your pain is you know, your your pain point ends up becoming your your purpose.
Yeah.
And for anybody that's ever had a child, that's 15 and unhappy and anxious
Gosh, it's so hard.
You know, and then to see you take that and then become really this incredible brand where you really put yourself out there if anybody gets a chance look at her YouTube channel. There's videos of her on the toilet talking. It's really funny.
It's awesome. I love it and I get to be my Liza Minnelli right? Because I get to do it but my own way talking about poo. It's so perfect!
So you're 15 you're going into high school, you finally get pulled off the drugs? What happened?
Yeah, well, then then my life just suddenly becomes much better, right? But my anxiety is still there because that's still not really being managed. And, you know, so but I do lose weight, I'm looking better and being accepted more, which is great when you're in high school, you know, I still have a lot of confidence issues, of course, because you know, you spend the greater majority of your life at that time, you know, being unconfident, unhappy with who you are anxious, you know, it's not not a nice nice, not a nice life. And then you know, someone tells me to go into a beauty pageant. So this is where I've got the queen. And this is actually what helps to build me It builds me up. So I you know, entered it in the hopes of I didn't think I would win it because I didn't think about myself. as attractive or anything or that I didn't like up until then I didn't believe it right I didn't believe that I could achieve anything like that. I but I could achieve the talent because I was very talented I played the piano and I danced. So I went into the competition and and I won the talent and I oh no I didn't win the talent I won Miss Congeniality, which was like awesome to me sounds like at least I want something.
How do you win the Miss Congeniality part?
You're just really pleasant and nice person like I am i guess.
You know what? I'm going to say if this was a Canadian beauty pageant where everybody's pleasant and nice. Winning Miss Congeniality is a serious deal.
That's right? Oh, that's a really awesome way of thinking about it. I need to think about it more that way. That's wonderful.
Yeah, I mean, like you would almost think like in other
Yeah.
Like if you're not I don't want to single out a certain part of the United States. Yeah, certain parts all you gotta do is just be like, say, hey, and you won.
That's so awesome.
Instead of flipping somebody off.
There you go, but it what ended up happening is I actually won it and and me winning it. It was first time I became a queen, and it's one of the reasons why my brand is also called the queen of the thrones is that it just it just built my confidence. So I just needed that one little vote of somebody else seeing the magic that I had inside of me. So that really changed my mindset changed how I was working and expressing myself as a person out here in this world. So that was really cool. And then, you know, took me through travels, I started doing more pageants, more, more, more, more of that and, and then it came time to go into high school into university and I, my mother was like, go be the doctor, go be the doctor. And I was like, I'm not being the doctor. I don't want to be a doctor. Look what happened to me. I was taking prednisone and I was like, 180 pounds by the time I was like, you know, 13 like that. No, I don't want to, I don't I'm not going to go become a doctor and do that to anybody. Because that's what my that's what my paradigm was. I looked at medical doctors at the time, that they didn't help you that they they they just gave you drugs that weren't good for you. And a lot of people think this, you know, and I still want to correct that. Because there's a time and a place for every single medicine. There's a time and a place for prednisone. You know if the patient is assessed properly? And you may need them. Right like in an acute flare up of Crohn's and colitis and you can't manage it. Prednisone would'nt you say?
Oh, yeah, this is what I. Like my biggest problem is as a gastroenterologist is having people that possibly have been mismanaged for a very long time. And then they come in and they've got osteopenia, and they're 30 years old and they've got all these other issues they're morbidly obese they've been on and off prednisone and other options have not been discussed. So the way that I view prednisone is is exactly that. It's a very powerful drug, but you only want to be on it twice in your disease course. Once to see if you go into remission the next one to say okay, now the we pull you off for the second time. What are we going to put you on so that you don't have to back?
Yeah, yeah, see and that's that's that's that's a great doctor. And and that's that's what there are so many great doctors out there. Right? It's like any profession, right? Like there's, you know, great naturopaths and there's not so great naturopaths and there's great doctors and not so great doctors. There's great lawyers and I don't know if that works. Like, no, I know really good lawyers, like I love my lawyer. So, you know, like, they're in all professions, it's like that. So you just have to search and find the one that really resonates with you and just just you need to listen for these key things, right? Like a doctor who is saying these things to you, like, you know, we'll try prednisone, but that's a dangerous drug. Like it's not something that should you should be on, managed for years. Like I was on it for years. So I ended up instead going into languages and business. So that was where my school ended up taking me.
Really?
Yeah. Because one thing I knew that I loved talking, and I loved people, and I figured, you know, one of the greatest platform to do that would be business. And so that led me there. And then I ended up going into actually my first very first job coming out of school was it was completely aligned in the stars was to work for a homeopathic pharmaceutical company from Germany called Heel
Called Heel?
Heel.
Hiel?
Heel.
Heel. And they are an unbelievable force in natural medicine they created this product called Traumeel it's no longer available in the United States they pulled out. But it was available and people out there will understand what if they've ever been in the natural world they've heard of Traumeel, an excellent anti inflammatory actually works very similar to a prednisone, but natural. It's an incredible thing. And there's no side effects to it. So in Germany it's number one.
Yeah, so one of the things like we would as we're launching Atrantil in the EU and stuff, oh, my goodness, though, so we, we have our own. We got recognized in Canada. So we have our own...
That's great. Good
NPI number, whatever it is that you guys do.
NPN. Natural product number. Yeah.
So we got our own NPN. And then we were not expecting the added expense of having to translate everything into French.
Oh, yes.
So that one was that was one of those non budgeted type things. So we're in Canada now. We're bilingual. But dang those Germans. They are strict.
Oh, yes. Oh yeah, they're quality control. Everything is just phenomenal. And that's great. I think that's fantastic. I think anything that we do in our life, if it's worth doing is worth doing with excellence, you know, and and I loved working for that company. I was so fortunate, you know, I was able to train with the best, the best doctors in Europe and Germany and Belgium, you know, sports, medical doctors, like gastroenterologists. It was just awesome. Like, I got the opportunity to see the world from so many different places around the world.
Where did you travel with that company?
how old are you when you're doing all this?
So I would go to Germany, I'd go to the United States, South America, it was just, it was just everywhere. Those are the main main places, but it was it was phenomenal. Like what an experience, but what it did is it introduced me to other practitioners. So that's where I got my first flavor of what a naturopathic doctor was, and a chiropractor, and then it opened up a whole new world to me of a different form of medicine. You know, a medicine that was inclusive, that really focused on from what I knew, really focused on assessing the patient, right because we know up until where we're at only what we have had experience in our lives. And my experience with the medical system was was one of not being well managed, you know, because even then later on in my, in my teenage or sorry, adult years when I started going to things like birth control, you know, I wasn't well advised on birth control and I, you know, went on a different pathway for that. So, so many so many issues there, right, like I was given Depo-Provera, and Depo-Provera just actually aggravated a lot of my digestive symptoms. It also made me bloat on certain points of time, you know, my period was messed up when I went off of it. So, you know, that was my perception of medical system. But then when I saw naturopaths and chiropractors I go, hey, there's different ways to do things. And there always is, right?
I'm about 26 or 27. I'm about 26 or 27. And then I finally like, just something inside me when am I I was back up in my hometown I was as that sales rep. I was speaking to a doctor when my good good doctor clients, and I was teaching him and training him all the methodology of what Heel taught which was something called homo toxicology, the study of toxins within the human system. So it's so phenomenal. It talks about the you know, how disease becomes manifests and how it reverses. And how, you know, first signs of disease are things like discomfort or, or, or discharge, right? Like if in our world, it would be like mucus and our stools are diarrhea. And then after that, it becomes inflammation. And it's just like the different steps of the pathology of how you know how disease manifests and how to reverse it. It was super phenomenally interesting.
That's really cool. I mean it's basically all in, in my opinion, all of disease really comes down to inflammation. If we can stop the inflammatory process, we can stop cells from being damaged and blah, blah, blah, blah. So...
I'm gonna add I'm an add in stress. Because I think to me, it's like a two a two prong thing. I think people will have like, it'll either be the like, you know, chicken or the egg. It's they'll start with the stress and then the inflammation comes about or the inflammation starts and then they have more stress. So then it's just like, and then it's you know that snowball effect down the hill but that big snowball is becoming bigger and bigger and bigger. Have you ever seen a snowball living in Dallas?
A snowball. It's...so
Basically two snowflakes will fall a year and there will be like 700 accidents
Oh that's so funny oh my gosh
That's very it'll it'll snow like once a year just kind of dusting and everything will just shut down. Everything will shut down. It's just like disaster mode.
So funny. Yeah but it's so it inflammation and stress are really really key. And you know, like if I look at myself and even just my history like that, that anxiety I was dealing with was full on stress like that was of course messing up my digestive tract, right it was making making my digestion feel totally off.
So I...
Trying to move your mic here so that we can get a little better picture of the queen of thrones here. So you know, this the whole studios in an adjustment you know this is two two but everybody wants to see the Beautiful, Dr. Queen of Thrones here so there we go.
But yeah, so so it was a great introduction and what an amazing methodology to learn. So I was training at that point, naturopathic doctors who are top in their class, treating cancer, a G like GI focused doctors, it was awesome. And what ended up happening is this doctor in my hometown said to me, he goes, What are you doing being the sales rep, what are you doing? He's like, you need to go be the doctor. You need to go be the doctor. And again, it was one of those foundational points in my life, you know, someone believes in you, and it's just enough, you know, gas in that engine to make you go phoom right, just jump on. So and I you know, when when I get an idea, and when he when he planted that idea in my mind, that was it. I was like, I literally called the company the next day and said I was quitting.
Oh my. You don't play around.
I don't play around. You know, when I know it feels right. It feels right. And that felt right. I just I knew it 100%. So what I what I did is the company actually wouldn't let me go that fast. So they actually prepared my journey to meet more doctors and really made it great. So then I went to naturopathic school at 28. But I didn't have my sciences because I had done a business degree. So I actually had to like read get all my sciences done. So you know, when you go back to school after you've been working, making money, you know, and you have to you have these big mountains you have to succumb to right, like, I literally had like Everest, I had to go back and do my basic sciences. I had a lot to do, right? Luckily, there was ways I could do it faster and get my basic sciences and I did that. And I started school and I loved it. I was just like, this is where I need to be. I had to really focus on the sciences and get really in depth those first few years because they were a little bit more challenging because I didn't have you know, all the years of the science background that that that other people did. And I went in as a mature student, but it was an amazing and amazing experience.
Had school always been easy for you?
No, no, no. And you know why? So let me explain this. I am brilliant and I don't I say that in the most humble way, I'm my, my superpower is really to be able to grab things, complex, complex ideas and simplify them. So I'm very fortunate in that way. But because I didn't have confidence in myself, because of all my experiences as a child and what was happening, I wasn't excelling in school at all. And I don't think that the school system was meant for my mind and how my mind works. You know, like I if if a concept if a simple concept is skipped through, and it jumps to the advanced concept without going through the basics, I get lost. So there was many times in like math class or such, like fractions, I couldn't get my mind into fractions. I couldn't understand the concept of it, right. And so they jumped to the next step, and then I would be lost and my marks would would, would be that way. So I had to work hard.
So going back to school would have been somewhat stressful for you.
Very, very.
I mean, just the idea that I'm gonna quit this job. I'm gonna go back to school and I'm going to revisit a lot of my insecurities. That's impressive.
Yeah. And, you know, to the and thank you for that. That means a lot. The the impetus also to go back to school was also that I was like, you know what I had been to see a lot of naturopaths and I had been to see a lot of doctors. And you know, my gi specialist at the time was like, I'm sorry about your luck. There's nothing you can do. And I'm like, Okay, well, thanks. I'm like, that's not you know, that's not the answer I want but another, you know, another mismanagement.
Yeah, the one that I mean, I always joke around that everybody, all the patients that come to see me and I'm sure you had this also, which is, you go to the doctor, you wake up from your endoscopy colonoscopy, and they're like, great news. It's all normal. You just have IBS.
And then you walk out and you're like I still feel like shit, exactly. What does that mean? Now I just have a label.
Exactly. And you know, even with an naturpaths I had seen before going back naturopathic school, they had none of them had tested my food sensitivities, and they just put me on these diets, for my food intolerances. They just put me on these diets that actually made me feel worse. So I kept on like losing confidence in the entire system. And I was like, well, maybe I can go back and become a naturopath and I can figure it out for me, right because I was that determined because I'm like, there has to be a better way to live. There really has to be a better way to live. And you know, and of course you know, go back into school it was challenging because I wasn't an excellent student, but I did become that but it did aggravate all my IBS symptoms. So during school I was I was a mess again, right and I had to work through it. I had to walk through it and try my best. And then finally someone tested my food intolerances and my sensitivities. And the thing was this is that all the naturopathic and cleansing diets before that time, were all based on rice and almonds and you know, you would take away the gluten and take away the dairy but you'd still be eating the grains like the rice and one of my big I'm Spanish background, you know, guess what I've been exposed to the majority of my of my life, you know, my gut is constantly being exposed to piyaya, maybe and piyaya is made out of rice, and I have a very permeable gut because I'm suffering with IBS my whole life. So what, what what food molecule is going to be elevated?
And then of course the South American component where you can add a bunch of beans to it so.
Yep, love those beans do exactly right.
I love me some piyaya.
Oh man, I love me piyaya too.
But the thing was I had to I had to be stay away from rice for a period of time because I was just over consuming it and it had become an intolerance to me my body was overreacting to it. And that's like, That's awesome, right that I was able to figure that out through school. So that was one of the components. Super like good great experience. I've been really, really blessed in my life I'm so thankful for.
It's really cool and I like hearing the background stories of somebody like you because you've over although you've you've been able to make changes, you make adjustments you pivot, and then you make this life change. And then you revisit some of these insecurities, which only makes you stronger.
Yeah.
And only allows you to continue to grow as a person. So then, you get into naturopathic school. What was that like?
Yeah, so it was a total shit show. I'm not sure if I could say that word on here but...
Ya no, this show you can basically say anything you want.
Oh, fantastic. I've been really like, you know, trying to be very prim and proper here but I really wanted to bring out my bad ass.
When we were on the spoony network or when we're still on the Spoony network, oh that's the label to Spoony right there.
Oh awesome.
Shout out to Ron and all those guys but it was pretty fun and because I was concerned about that also you want to like be normal and everything and so they're like look in our world just do not say GD or the F word and basically everything else is okay.
Cuz I say shit a lot. Patients say shit a lot to me.
Of course they do you know my my first book coming out in the in the spring is called Oh shit.
I saw that.
I cannot wait. Yeah.
That is really cool.
But you know why I labeled it oh shit because I was I used to say when I would be ready to about to have an accident. I'd be like, Oh shit. Like, and if you look at us, what we do is when we have a moment of anxiety, what do we say? Oh shit. Oh shit, right. So that's the whole energy of it. So the book is gonna be really great. I'm super excited for it, but I'm back in school so I'm in school...
Just to clarify so that I saw that the title of the book is doesn't actually say shit you do the...
Yes I do the little star I do I do. I'm keeping it clean. You know, the reality is is that like Northern Ontario you swear a lot like I grew up in Northern Ontario. Like lots of truckers like we said, I don't want to stereotype anybody but I just grew up in a place where I learned to swear a lot right so and the majority of the words I would swear with shit typically so that and you know, and I like I like saying like I'm a badass because I am a badass. You know, but it's it's uh, yeah, I gotta keep it clean you know, got it gotta do those things.
So right now we're in a shit show.
Yeah.
Which we're just kind of bounce around so I love a I've got a little add Yeah, like bouncing around. So we just went forward in time we got a book coming out. We'll talk about that. But now you're at the shit show called naturopathic school or are you going into graduate school?
Yeah, I mean, the school is phenomenal. Like the knowledge and education you learn is great, but you know what the volume is a lot. Because like, it's like we're talking like we not only have to learn everything that conventional doctors learn, we also then have to learn what naturopathic doctors learn. So the amount of material that we have to go through is incredible unless you're constantly being I mean, I'm sure medical school also is very stressful. And it takes it takes a bit of life out of you, you know, but which you regain amazingly, afterwards. But it was a lot, a lot to learn a lot to learn at once. And so and because and because I had been in the past challenged in my learning, I would invest a lot more time than the average person would. So I was taking it to that next level, because I really did. You know, when you go back, a lot of the people in my program were younger, you know, they hadn't lived, they hadn't worked. And, you know, a lot of them just cared about getting good grades on their exams. And you know, the typical mentality of students.
Well, it's a typical mentality of a graduate for sure, cuz they worked that hard to get where they're at. And then all of a sudden they're amongst everybody else. So like in medical school, at least in medical school, I went to, everybody was at the top of the class when they came from undergrad, and all of a sudden to be the top of the class there. It's, it's an ego blow. And a lot of people just view it as a badge. Like, I'm just gonna learn this and crush this and do whatever, but to actually realize no, I'm learning stuff to apply to people later on, is hard to do.
And then like, I remember there was one girl who was like in a we're in a class and she's like, lifting her hand. She's like, Can we just like know, like, what topics you are actually going to be testing? And I like actually flicked her in the head. She was say me, I never because I was like, I looked her and she turned around, she's like, I go, I go, you are going to be a doctor, taking care of people's lives. That is a huge responsibility. And if they're not going to come in with just what you learned on the test, like honey, you I could do that because I was an older mature student, right? She was younger, and we were friends and you know, and she and she loved me so I got away with it. But you know, I said to her, I go, you know, you have a it's an enormous responsibility to be a doctor and you know, I feel so honored and blessed and like you do to Ken I know because we've had so many conversations like this.
That is I want to not to digress from this at all, but this is a great opportunity. I got our good friend, Tony. Just came out with his book and your book, I can't wait to read your book.
But Tony's awesome.
Tony's awesome love this guy, this whole book. It's called playing God, but it's basically exactly what you're talking about. And he brings up an example in there, where there's this star resident, the star resident that's kind of competing with him about this plastic surgery. But Tony got they went and took a test. And he did well on it. And then there was like medical emergency the next day, and he figured something out that and he said the patient's life, and the other resident didn't like it, like How'd you know how to do that? He's like, well, it was on the test, but it's all about studying to apply.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Studying to apply. And It's so important, right? So I would definitely spend like, prob I would say like my 82 Gosh, probably 120 hours I would be I would be studying or in school. So it was intense. And you know, I really I unfortunately really hurt myself in in in that that time and by the time I got to third year moving into my fourth my fourth my residency year, I actually I felt completely ill like chronic fatigue. I couldn't get out of bed I couldn't I couldn't do anything. I was just I was really really stuck.
Really?
Yeah. And and at that time, which was scary was that I was actually doing all the right things. I was eating all the right diets for me, I was taking all the right supplements I was you know, doing all the right things that I could do. And I you know, had a really heartfelt conversation with my lovely mother, who you know, normally was one who just constantly pushed me forward, push, push, push, push, push, but this was the time in my life where she said, uou know what, it's time for you to rest and take the time that you need, so you can get back to being you.
I thought she was gonna put you back on prednisone
No, no, thank God. No, my mom my mom was always trying to get me on to witches brew right it was like she was she already have that latin American you know, let's do like the natural I got some herb.
No I would like I said when I was studying in San Antonio not uncommonly the whole you know, the whole chicken eggs under the bed kind of thing and whatever.
Absolutely raised part of our culture and our tradition is so awesome but and you know what and I did that and but more more importantly than that what I did was this there had been something that was recommended to me at every health food store I had gone to as a sales rep for that natural company, every naturopathic doctors office, every chiropractor I had talked to every every person I had been in contact with with something called the castor oil pack. And I had said no that I wasn't going to do it for the longest time probably about 15 years at that point. Because it was messy I felt like it was too much time it was a hassle didn't make sense to me. I'm like how can this thing that's like you pour castor oil, you know, which is you know what, you know, people that live in the Caribbean people are like oh god don't give me castor oil because they you know take it weekly to you know purge so that they prevent their parasites right this kind of like cultural tradition.
I didn't know that.
Caribbean islands? Yeah, Caribbean Indian Indian culture as well too. They do that weekly one tablespoon castor oil to purge the gut. Right. So So I was thinking like, I don't want to do that like because I had a misconception of it and how is castor oil put on your body topically gonna go in your body? And how is that going to work and help my gut and you know, just miraculously improve my IBS, right? I'm like, whatever. I didn't believe it. That was my like, cuz I was also you know, my sister's a dentist. So I also have that mindset where it's like, you know, I am very, very, very scientific and I am and the woo woo's. I'm into both of them. I don't want to call naturopath a woo woo but you know, that yeah, I mean, it is it's like, you know, Earth medicine and like the herbs and then the homeopathy and all these different things like just different tools, mindset. These are all different tools, and I think they just were I think they work so good together with Science and these tools are now like natural things are also getting a little bit more science behind them which is excellent and and experience helps too but I had to figure out something different I needed to do something different so then what I said to myself was this you know what? I am going to try that that castor oil pack I don't care if it's a shitty mess whatever I'm going to do it I'm going to try it and I'm going to see if it's going to help me.
Now wait a minute. What were your symptoms that you were experiencing at this time?
Well, it was it was severe chronic fatigue including like constipation alternating with diarrhea so I had mono antibodies so I was you know and and and stress honestly like I think to me I think the really the biggest problem was just that it was stress like that the stress was just so enormous and then I was putting so much pressure on myself to be the best that I could be so that I could be the best doctor because I wanted to be no I need no I'm I needed to be the best doctor ever because this was super important to me because of what happened to me as child.
So what I like getting the history of this and I like listening to your struggle because people don't see that and what they do is they'll go on your YouTube video and say, Oh, she's got it all together.
She's so amazing, perfect.
Yeah, and people don't realize that you you had kind of a difficult childhood you turn around and then in your quest to become a really good doctor you destroyed yourself. People don't realize that that's the kind of effort that's the kind of mentality it takes to become the queen of Thrones. And all people see is this end product.
Yeah exactly. You know what we are one of those this quote this weekend one of my friends said, it's like you know, people see in the one minute of success what people have been doing behind the scenes for like 10 years, right or from in anyone's case it's like their lifetime before that like everything that is created who they are up until this moment right now.
There's a saying in the entrepreneur world it only it only took 10 years to be an overnight success.
That's right, exactly that right like and that's the thing is that you know, it's like every like everything I look at my life, everything that every journey every every every shitty point, you know those things shitty points are so bad. And now I guess, I'm so happy I swear this is like awesome. A whole new.You know, all those points, they're all part of your journey and it's so important you have to honor them.
Do you have a favorite spanish swear word?
No, because my mother wouldn't really I know my mother wouldn't really like teach us that right and so because we were in Northern Ontario there weren't too many Spanish people we never got indoctrinated with, with, you know, any of the spanish swear words. My parents were very clean. So we did. I mean, maybe the worst one would be like hijo de puta. I feel bad when I say I'm like my mom, like, no, don't say that. Right.
We're gonna send a clip of that to your mom.
Oh, no. She's seen and she's up in heaven.
Oh that's right! I'm sorry.
She passed way this year. Yeah.
Do you want to talk about that for a second.
Yeah, we can. Yeah, totally. So my mom, you know, she she's also a big driver in why I do what I do because of her suffering with constipation. And, you know, I truly wish that she would have dealt with her constipation earlier on and had the availability of better doctors to be able to get better because you know what people who have constipation for their lives, especially women and overweight then they tend to be highly likely to get some type of hormonal breast hormonal cancers, right? Like breast cancer, right? You have all this weight, you know, constipation, it just it just it's something that can happen very easily. And, you know, my mother's, you know, was one of my very first cancer patients actually, but fortunately she beat stage four breast cancer. She beat it.
At stage 4?
She did comp a mix of we were so fortunate we actually like we're very personal close personal friends with the oncologist at our hospital because they've actually kind of given her nothing's really going to happen. But we were able to get her breast removed we were able to like do both chemo and radiation. And then she she, you know, suped it all up with adding and all the natural stuff on the side with naturopathic medicine and she did awesome and she survived 10 years 10 years and then what end up happening was it was a stroke. A hemorrhagic stroke out of the blue. But you know, we got 10 more years, which is amazing. And you know, you know, but if she is still like to this day if she had worked better on, I think being better at her bowels. When you're better with your bowels Your life is simply better. Like it's it's just it's just the way it goes you feel better when you poop better, right? Like there's no...
Well I think that if you have a if you go to your website, you've got the 50 shades of poo.
I love that. Yes, my fifty shades poo. My nasty little secret.
So she's got her 50 shades of poo, which you gotta talk about that that really, when we see how people are digesting a lot of that actually can come down to as a kind of a window into what's happening in your body. And so yeah, yeah. So I'm so sorry that your mom died this year.
Thanks Ken. Yeah, you know, it has been definitely a huge journey and a lot of it has brought up a lot of different things because she was truly the biggest believer in me, you know, and so to lose that force behind me, but I haven't lost her and that's the thing truly like she's actually here constantly and like, I feel her presence completely. And so I feel guided by her and, and her passing actually just makes me makes me must have this and help more people more, you know, because my goal is to actually reach a billion people and I will do that this is a must in my life. And and the reason why is because, you know, 20% of our population actually deals with like constipation or some form of digestive, like problems. That's a billion people around the world.
Oh, it's huge.
It's huge.
In in certain countries. It's really interesting because when you look at different countries that have digestive issues, it really is the Western world. And now as other countries become more westernized, they're starting to develop these same things.
Latin America.
Latin America. I mean, Brazil is one of the largest IBS populations also. US Brazil, and then we have these different countries and so, you know, we've always been taught that 20% of the US population has irritable bowel syndrome. And there's that is my explanation as to why we have this huge increase of autoimmune disease and all these other things.
Yeah. And the thing is what's really cool is this. So I found stats on constipation, it's 14% in North America 21% in Latin America countries. 7.8% in Asian countries. So it just goes to show right like, and you know, Latin America, like I could say that being a Latin American is that it is it is definitely getting corrupted with a lot of the North American, like the SAD diet, like the standard American diet is really infiltrating into that.
The SAD diet. Stsndard American diet. I have never thought about
Yeah, right. Like, because it's like, I mean, you know, and not all Americans are a SAD die, right? Many of us are like, I feel like I'm an American. Many Americans do live a good healthy lifestyle, right. But there are those people who are eating a lot of packaged, processed, you know, fast food, and that's the majority of their of their diet. And that's the type of diet that will really, you know, like be a detriment to your system. And you know, Latin American countries are taking that all up as well to, you know, and I think just just sometimes too, they do eat a very starchy diet and heavy starches also can be a problem for constipation. So that could be a thing too. But it's it's it's really interesting and this is a must for me now like, really I want to help people because my mom's passing I know I probably would have gotten another 10-15 years had her constipation not be a problem and then her not having cancer and not having those, those struggles to go through in life.
How did your sister handle it?
My sister, so interesting, you know, she couldn't even watch her pass, which was she ended up coming into the room to watch her pass, but she didn't want to. And I found that very interesting, because, you know, she's a healthcare professional as well too, but she's a dentist, so she doesn't necessarily deal with death and dying. You know, I've seen quite a few patients death, and I've been at their bedside for death and dying with my cancer patients. So I'm more used to it so I could deal with it, but my sister keeps on going. That's what she does. So I'm a little bit of the emotional wreckage you know, that like falls apart and is like, you know, crying for months on end. I actually took a sabbatical from clinical practice for six months,
Six months?
Yeah, I've never done that before but I just need I needed time. Because that was that was an important it's it's one of the hardest things that you deal with when you lose a parent. Right? Like, like the only other thing that I think could be worse would be to lose a child. You know, cuz you never want your children to leave before you. But losing a parent is detrimental but it has also given me a lot of strength. So I feel very honored to have been on that journey with her.
Yeah, I lost my dad when I was 21 before I went into medicine but, but I always find it interesting when medical people have to deal with death or illness. And you know, you just start looking at things a little bit differently,
Huge differently. And it's funny, we couldn't do anything for my mother we had no, there was nothing to save her in the stroke being hemorrhagic like is just like she was bleeding like they could have gone and got into her brain but we said you know, what are we doing? Like that's not going to be good quality of life. We don't even know she'd come out and she would be a vegetable. And we figured you know, this is her time. And and when I did see my sister was this is that her and I both tried to become the doctors when our mom got the stroke. Right? And but I, I not so well because I get too emotional. So I'm like, I don't want to treat family like you can't do it was too close to you right? But my sister got into like Dr mode, right? You want to see the scans you want to see this and I'm like thank God at least you can do that and I'll I'll be the emotional support you will be. So we're good team that way. So thank God.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
So getting back to when you finally discovered this castor oil pack. So what did it do for you?
Well, immediately I started sleeping better. And immediately I started noticing that my my bowel movements were better, better formed. I'd had them a little bit more frequently or when I did have them I'd actually go more. So I'd have more eliminate all at once. So I was pretty impressed with that and then and then you know of course I was also doing other things I was getting IV therapy. I was I was doing other things on top of that. Because I wanted to get better and I wanted to get back into my life right. I felt like I was having to take a big pause and a break and I wasn't happy with I really wanted to be back in the joy of what I was learning and doing. And so I started, I committed to myself to do these packs every single night because I wanted to feel better and that's what I did and and and I thought I would have to take a lot more but only and I ended up having to take one little semester and I got right back into the groove of things. And honestly, I feel it was the castor oil packs that really did something different for my body. And and what I ended up learning and researching years later was that it it of course it works on the digestive system and on the guts and on inflammation like castor oil is a well known, you know, topical, anti inflammatory, it does all those things. But what it did more than anything was that it changed my stress state. It moved me from being in the stress to sympathetic, you know, hardcore, constantly wired to be stressed out. And it moved me into the paused state which is like the parasympathetic and the relaxed state. And I think that above and beyond everything is what I needed more than anything, and I needed to be able to sleep better so that I could I could heal better at night, right? Because I wasn't healing good at night because I couldn't sleep. Right. I would spend hours just like in my mind.
I think that that is it's really interesting. And I want to geek out. About castor oil. I'm not very familiar with it, certainly the topical application of it I did a little bit of reading about it. But what's let's get back to the whole stress aspect. It is so fascinating that I have so many people that will go through a profoundly stressful period, and then develop a significant disease. It's almost like insult to injury. Yeah, I'll have people to go through a bad divorce and then they'll show up with crohn's. They're like what there has to be some sort of correlation, all of this with the cortisol and just these inflammatory markers that are all going up. And then don't even get me started. I think that the three pillars of health are our gut, brain and sleep. Basically, we need to make sure that we decrease the inflammatory process in our brain. We need to protect the gut, and you gotta sleep.
See I say eat sleep, poop. But the brain is in there for sure, I think the brain is just an extension of the gut. That's my that's my perception of it.
I've got, I've got a talk that I give and quite a bit of data where I can actually show that they have taken. And so a lot of lot of traditional doctors will not discuss leaky gut. And you know, but if you say, Oh, it's intestinal permeability, maybe that'll be a little bit more, but it's really well known and they're documented does some people say there's not science, I've got thousands of articles documenting a lot of this, something really wild. And this is how I end up telling my patients I'm like, Look, they did a study where they took human digestive tissue and they put it with inflammatory markers. And then I checked the permeability of it. And they actually showed the different things like zonulin like leaked through and stuff, and then they had different sizes. So there, that's an in vitro study, then there's not a blood brain barrier, same exact inflammatory markers, and they, they show that the blood brain barrier becomes leaky. So we've got leaky gut, leaky brain, it's all tied together,
All tied together. And then so this is a thing to talking about cortisol Is that the research that I've looked at is mainly that my focus has been a lot on the stress component and cortisol and and my research has shown that whenever there's an elevated level of cortisol, your gut is impermeable so it goes completely together is that you know like it's that inflammation back to the chicken and egg we were talking about earlier not the chicken under the bed but the chicken and the egg right the chicken and the egg where it's like it's you got inflammation first and then you get stressor you get stress and then you get inflammation so it that's that that whole that's what's playing out there with that.
Alright now let's talk geeking out. You are now going to become a teacher to me.
Absolutely! Love it!
So castor oil. You on your website you have it is the castor oil pack that you wear.
yeah
So just tell just teach me just I don't know shit about castor oil.
Well, I'm going to show you how to shit with castor oil. But not early. So we all know like Castor Oil of course you know that's it's it's approved by Health Canada. It's approved by the FDA orally for use to for bowel movements or for constipation right and actually at the turn of the century castor was one of those oils that was you know, everywhere and all the little like apothecary pharmacies, right and they would use it along with like things like Ipecac and those all those old herbs. So castor oils are super cool. castor oil actually is a plant of vegetable vegetable plants, some water in a vegetable plant and this vegetable plant actually what's so cool about it is that the bean will kill you but the oil that is extracted from it will heal you so the bean is actually used in like warfare. It's like a biological weapons that it'll kill you it'll stop your DNA replication and they'll kill you within like six hours if you take enough of a dose.
The whole been like if you just eat it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the bean I mean can kill you. So it's, like so many patients have seen it on like CSI and they're always like, Oh my god, I heard that on CSI about like the castor bean. It's like a biological warfare. It's neat. But the oil when it's extracted and cold pressed doesn't contain the component that kills you which is the ricin component. So yeah.
Oh wait. Ricin?
Yeah, that's from he castor bean.
Yeah so ricin it kills you right? It kills your ear it like block your receptors.
Oh! I had no idea.
Oh yea it's potent neural toxin. Ricin comes from castor bean?
Yeah. Castor bean yeah ricin comes from the castor bean. So so the castor oil though however does not contain that, but how castor oil actually like if you were to take a spoonful of castor oil to actually have a bowel movement. What ends up happening is it's not the people think that it's the ricin that makes you you know have explosive diarrhea. That's not the way it works. Castor oil stimulates nitric oxide production within the gut, nitric oxide production within the gut which nitric oxide of course is healing Of course, you know, that simulates paracel in it's a speak to me about it. About nitrous oxide.
Oh, nitric oxide. That's that. So nitric oxide, the reason why I'm super interested into it and we know that that is the molecule that stimulates vascel dilation, which increases blood flow. And so we're real big in nitric oxide because we have been working with some sports medicine people without Antrantil, and I'm here once again, plug Atrantil, sponsor of the show. So what as it turns out the polyphenols in there, they actually have been shown to increase nitric oxide. So for sports recovery. And it decreases reactive nitrogen species reactive oxygen species so so we're so we're super big about nitric oxide.
So and this is what one of the actions of castor oil does. And so which is which is amazing. And nitric oxide is also, you know, in other research, they're using it as antimicrobials. So there's some really neat, neat, neat research and they actually use it on catheters and such they'll they'll put nitric oxide on it in order to help reduce infection rates. Yeah, it there's that there's really neat, neat, neat information coming out with nitric oxide Of course, it's a you know, gasotransmitter of the digestive system as well too, but the nitric oxide is one of the mechanisms of action but there's also castor oil also stimulates PGE3 and it's it touches on to the receptors in the gut that create parasol cysts. So that's how it gets your
PGE3 is a smooth muscle receptor.
A hundred percent exactly so so it creates a paracelsus and smooth muscle of the body if you take it orally, so in the digestive tract but then also in the uterus so that's why there's a contraindications so don't use castor oil if you're pregnant unless you are inducing a baby and you've been you know your midwife or someone has recommended to do that. Because castor oil will stimulate any sleep muscle in the body to go to the bathroom so uterus is the other smooth muscle of the body. So that's enough action to go to the bathroom. Then castor oil topically has been compared to capsaicin which is like hot red hot chili pepper, and red hot chili peppers are known as a very good anti inflammatory The only problem with it is it makes it red and a bit burning is called a rubefacient effect. It gets it gets really really red into the skin when you put...
Rubefacient...
Rubefacient yeah, right.
That's a big word. I didn't learn that in medical school.
No well hey...I love it.
These canadian naturopaths are smart!
So that reddening is uncomfortable for people right and then of course you know like think about it you get like chili pepper on your fingers or your hands what happens if you get a close your eyes it's like burn, so you don't want that but castor oil has the same effect in terms of like reducing edema, reducing the inflammatory markers and not and and not oh also reducing substance piece so your pain perception is reduced with castor oil topically and it's an amazing oil.
So it does this topically but that you had a systemic effect. So how does that happen when you put soemthing on topically?
So it has to do with the the triglyceride chains in the oil of castor oil. So castor oil is composed of mainly something called ricinoleic acid which is unique and only available in castor oil and then hold on and then all of oil is another percentage of it which is about maybe like they're 10% of it is olive oil or oleic acid, the triglyceride chain and the and another portion of that 10% is linoleic acid. So, you got your omega six so you got omega nines and you got omega sixes in there.
So the oils are there they do not have to be hydrolyzed or broken down by the body to get the ricinoleic acid?
No, so because look what happens here. So it ricinoleic acid is like is 90% of the oil and it actually has a molecular weight of 258 Dalton's in dermatological medicine a substance needs to be a molecular weight which is lower than 500 Dalton's in order to permeate through the dermis and the stratum corneum which is like but the you know, the the barrier, right the barrier layer of the skin of the epidermis so that you can get into the dermis. So castor oil has the ability to actually permeate through the epidermis and to be in the dermis and then be driven systemically through the body because in the dermis, you have circulation, you have the lymphatic system and all that. So it's one of the only oils that has that permeability of the of the epidermis. It's super cool.
So that is so that is really, really fascinating. I did find an article, there's only one thing I want to ask you about. So one article in 2011 was trying to determine how much of it actually gets absorbed. And what they were looking at was a metabolite called epoxy decarbox, decarboxylic acid in the urine. And in this particular study, they showed that there was an increase compared to the there was an increase in the oil ingestion, not in the topical.
Not in the topical Yep.
Yeah, yeah. And i've done that too not like I funded one in my clinical practice, you know, I always look at that study and I don't know the answer to that because I've just seen so much benefit. And I mean, like, I wear a castor oil pack every night and the oil like there's very little oil left on me.
So what explain. Because clearly, you've seen success with this. And you and I've talked, I mean, I'm the first one to sit there and admit that just because the research doesn't exist, yeah. Doesn't mean that it's not effective. And I think that when we last met at the meeting, one of my big passions is trying to get my group digestive health associates of Texas digestive Research Institute DRI And I keep calling them out that I want them to start doing research on natural things so that we're not just always taking the check from right from Big Pharma. They're the ones that can afford to do this, but it does, it does take money and it does. You know, the two studies that we did with Atrantil you know, I had to fund myself.
Really? Yeah.
I've done just on a quick note, i've played games with different things that are supposed to be topical. And I'll take take tegaderm is that a nonpermeable sticky thing that you can dressa wound with. So I'll take like topical hydrocortisone or Benadryl or things are supposed to be and I will put it on and I will wake up in that same amount is still on my arm and it didn't get absorbed at all.
Yeah, and well if you look too like, like most creams, like Uh, medicine creams like, God, there's so many castor oil is a base ingredient and I'm pretty confident that they put it in there for the for permeability, it's one of them, I think that they would they would have more castor oil it would help with it. The reason castor oil can do it is because on that recinileic acid chain on the 12 carbon you've got, you've got alcohol group. And so then that makes it a different flexibility, different molecular weight, it makes it a bit available in to move around in different in different systems. So I don't know the answer why the metabolite didn't didn't, didn't didn't replicate at when from a castor oil pack to oral consumption of castor oil. There must be some type of mechanism action in the body where it has changed. And there's a different metabolite either that or that it isn't going directly through the digestive tract, right. It's coming in and working through the body.
That's what I was gonna say. I was gonna say that if you're looking at the direct metabolite that probably had first pass metabolism through the liver. There's different there's different methods of excreting different things. There's, I've seen drugs where they go, Oh, it doesn't get absorbed. But the reality is what you're looking for is not the drug there's probably metabolites.
Of some sort that we that we don't even know yeah exactly yeah that's what my feeling is for sure because I've seen you know it's to the point in in my practice where the first prescription I give is the castor oil pack now, like where before I'd be like umm I wonder if they would be willing to do it you know now my note boom first thing you're doing because I've seen like I can like and I know when patients aren't doing them because they're not doing as well as they should be doing this according to my track records in my results, right because what castor oil packs do is they really support the system and and and those base problems the pillars of disease, which are you know, digestion not being good, right like low digestive enzymes, you know, not absorbing your food well because your gut is permeable, right or and not pooping well as well to you. Right, that's a base pillar of health if you don't have digestion, absorption elimination working well, you're you're you're lacking on a base pillar of health. The other pillar is antioxidants. So like your polyphenols and Atrantil, that's really important to get into your system. You know, castor oil also serves as a way to ingest oral oils. If you think about it for people who have, you know, gallbladder problems, right? If you have a gallbladder problem you you are lacking on essential fats in your body, right? You just can't absorb them, your body does not absorb them. Well. Why not take them topically? Right?
Yeah. So even though there's not a whole lot of literature out there. In your clinical practice, what would you say that the effectiveness is? And I don't any, the Global Health scale, let's call it that. You know, a lot of times it's not how many so all the studies that are always being done, it's there was a study that just came out in 2019, looking at how giving castor oil to people that do what's called a capsule endoscopy. So we do something where I'll have you swallow a capsule, and if it doesn't go all the way through, it's an ineffective exam and what they realize is by giving castor oil, you had better excretion without changing the visibility of this. So let me use different things. So in your clinical practice, which much like me, where I think that that carries a quite a bit of quite a bit of weight just because it hasn't made it into the literature yet. It's only because you're a super busy person, you're here in Dallas, you're going to be hopping on a flight here soon. You're gonna be flying around and people are like, Well, you know, Doctor, why isn't there more literature? Well it's because people like you out there on the front line are actually frickin working.
That's right, I'm trying to get and I'm loving my work and I don't feel I'm busy. I feel I'm living my best life ever. I want to make sure I reframe that because I don't want to be a busy person. I want to be living my best life. But castor I mean, there's so many things we could talk about here. It is like in clinical practice. It's and it's not only the castor oil in the castor oil pack that has the effect because the pack actually has a bit of an effect too.
Okay, so we keep saying this pack and it's somebody everybody's gonna eventually go and get on your website. Over there, they're gonna go ahead and look at it but you have pictures of yourself doing it not other stuff. One of the things is we what in the heck is a castor oil pack? We've been talking this whole time. So you've got me convinced that castor oil transdermal it can be good for you. We're, you know, we're sitting here looking at this and then now I'm like okay, I want to get one What is it? How do I do it? It's messy whatever.
So maybe a few more things before...should I get into that or should I talk a little bit more about what castor oil does because there's still more stuff about just castor oil.
Tell me more about castor oil. Let's geek out on castor oil.
And then we'll go from there. So so you get so so you have the ability for like essential fats topically does that work or not the research I'm not sure if they're absorbing it completely but hey what why not if they're not getting oral oral fats try a different way. Then inflammation so we know it'll work on the inflammation pillar of health. Right? Because inflammation is purposeful. I love inflammation if it's in the right quantity, because in the right quantity, it's going to help the body heal, right it It helps stimulate fibroblasts it helps you know change tissues in a little bit, It's good too much then you got wildfires like California bad news. We don't want that.
That is so the term that what I always tell everybody I mean what do you think working out is? What do you think sauna is? It's a little bit of inflammation polyphenals do the exact same thing. It's a term called homeostasis when your body adapts
Love it love it so good. And then also after that then there's the what's super important which is the stress and castor oil packs help with the stress and the oil is not the oils effect is actually the pocket affect that helps us to modulate your stress and put move you into parasympathetic state.
The pack itself does, it's not even the oil.
Yeah, it's not even the oil that moves you into the relaxed state it's actually wearing a compress. So and this has everything to do with neurology and really understanding like the nervous system and triggers and receptors on the skin. So when you wear a compress that and the material needs to be soft so my castor oil packs of the material on the inside is incredibly soft. And there is research on this on PubMed, you're going to love it like it has to do the research was done predominantly for like skincare companies understanding like the tactile perception, and what parts of the brain get lit up when you use different things like velvet on your skin or rough things on your skin. That's really, it's fascinating.
I was just I was in a meeting and a CEO of a company that develops weighted blankets.
Yeah, of course. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
You're supposed to calm you down.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
For anxious kids and stuff like that.
Yeah. So so the work someone is very popular and doing a lot of work with this is temple temple, Templeton grand and she created the hug machine for autistic patients and had everything to do it basically, when, when when certain receptors are are stimulated. So when you wear a pack over your abdomen, specifically like over your liver, you're stimulating some visceral somatic reflexes from the receptors like Merkel's receptors, pressure receptors, all these different types of receptors that are in the skin that then communicate to the parasympathetic ganglion to stimulate that area and the parasympathetic movement. So you then you it's almost like an escape button on your computer moving your body into the relaxed state via neuro feedback mechanisms from wearing a funky little cloth on your belly.
That is awesome.
Isn't that super cool?
It just dawned on me as we're geeking out here. This is like a like when Rhonda Patrick goes on Joe Rogan. She'll go down like rabbit holes like this. It's really cool.
But that's that's like super neat, right? So that's why I'm like, you know, even now in my life, like I really try to always find really soft, beautiful material, because what it does it actually stimulates the limbic area of your brain. And the limbic area is your primordial part of your brain. It's also where you can stimulate dopamine and feel good substances, like you and bonus, you stimulate oxytocin. And oxytocin is super important for feeling good. And also, you know, your body working well, right. It's connection molecule and when oxytocin is stimulated, your cortisol goes down as a reflex.
Oxytocin, the the love
and connection hormone.
Yeah, that would make sense that if somebody developed a hug machine that you can start stimulating the oxytocin so the pack itself with physical application. See that's really cool. And then I think that something like that, just educating to tell people that not only are you potentially getting this medication in there, but we're going to work on you're changing your whole neural process. We're working with a company called brain FM.
Cool yeah!
And Dan Clark. We're gonna get hin down the show at some point but they what they do is they use bineural beats, and they can actually get different parts of the brain to light up.
I've done that so awesome.
Yeah, so this is just a field of science that is just it's just in its infancy
Well, we don't even know the potential of our brain and our nervous system right but what we do know is that our nervous systems are on high stress and we need to practice the relaxed pause state and that was my biggest problem when I was sick was that I was constantly in stress mode and I had no idea how to relax and you know that's why the first time I did the castor oil pack actually felt so calm I had no idea what that calm sensation was cuz I don't think I'd felt it before. And that's why I slept well that night. It was like such an eye opening experience for me, but the pack is partly what does that and that's the Stress mechanism that we have to and and honestly, the thing is this if you look at things that really reduce your stress in your life, like so, if you do exercise exercise is great, but it also creates stress. So that's not always the best one. Yoga is a good way massage therapy will do this as well, right?
So let's talk about that, just super quick. Yeah, how many marathon runners have heart attacks? Because that continual stress you need to give your body a break. It's a little bit of stress, recover, stress, recover stress recover.
Exactly so so you know, you can you can use stress to feel good or like exercise to feel good and you know, pump up those endorphins, but it's not going to push you into a relaxed pause state, the one that you're looking for, for healing, going for massage will do that, which is awesome. But let's face it, how often can you go for a massage? Like, you know, I would do it you should do it every day because you should be relaxed every day. You should be training your body like an Olympian athlete to relax every day. You know, but you can't go to the massage therapist every day and then there's. It's true. Right now in my life I can't go every day but very shortly I'll have my massage therapist with me.
On the way over here I was listening to, to a comedy station. Yeah, there's a comedian named john Melaney. Yeah. And he was talking about how he was trying to relax and so we I went to go have a massage and she said, undress to your comfort level. And he goes so I put on a nice fluffy sweater and some corduroy and it was the most relaxing massage I've ever had. Because for a lot of people actually massage can be very stressful if they've got some body issues they don't want they don't undress and there's a lot of things that go associated with that.
Absolutely. Plus your comfort levels if there's been trauma in the past, you know, for them, it could be an experience they don't want to go down.
Are you into meditation?
Absolutely. Hundred percent. Yeah. 100%. Yeah, like it's, that's an that's another way you can do it. So that's so so doing practicing meditation helps. So that's another way and we want to be doing meditation daily.
This is going to drive my wife nuts. So I'm always, now I'm having podcast guest but usually I'll listen to a podcast and I'll just Amazon stuff. So now I've got my little Infrared Sauna at the house. I'm sitting there with my by neural beads meditating while wearing my castor pack.
You could totally do it in the sauna. Yeah, that's awesome
The queen of thrones castor oil pack.
Yeah! It's awesome. Well, it's such a, you know, to me, it's a foundational treatment and to me it's like and the thing with these castor oil packs too is that you know what they've been around forever. They've been around since the beginning of time.
So this is one of those things I wanted to ask you which is, and I feel your pain. Yeah, this is why you're out there. On this on the beat making vidoes on your mission coming on shows like this talking about it. It's the same thing with Atrantil. Why when people finally get it, they're like, why haven't I heard about this before? And you're like, huh, cuz there's a lot of white noise out there. How do you cut through it? So how are you going to reach these billion people?
So I'm working with so many different influencers, whether it's on Instagram, Facebook, you know, I'm really going to the people because I feel that this is a is the base practice that all of us need to be doing. You know like like this is something that I feel if everyone was doing a castor oil pack if everyone understood like everything that there poo was saying about them they I would I would probably be out of a job honestly because they would have all the tools to understand their body and know what to do to make themselves better right because if you understand what your poo is really saying about you and if you if you're doing like base foundations like castor oil packs, like your system and a lot better shape of course you have to eat well and you know, you got to be you know, focused on that as well to you can't be eating you know, that sad standard American diet and expect to not be at the doctor's office but...but I would be out of a job right because it sets that foundation so strongly. And if you look at history, like history is really great, like Hippocrates loved castor oil and would use castor oil. GALEN, you know, Hippocrates is the father of medicine. You know, they would use castor oil and castor oil packs. GALEN would use castor oil and castor oil packs Cleopatra loved castor oil, traditional Chinese medicine back in the day they would use castor oil packs on inflamed joints IR Vedic practitioners like it's just it's permeated our entire life.
It's super interesting because there's other things that I'm getting into now that when I start looking at the science behind it that have been around a long time, like, and some things have been completely bastardized, and they just become neutral, one of the things I'm looking at is like Aloe Vera, I'm revisiting Aloe Vera because I didn't realize that when it became completely industrialized, and it's a Walmart product and stuff it the stuff that's on the shelves is, is really nothing. It's just water. Yeah. And then you start looking at, well, CBD, I'm a big CBD fan, you start looking at the at the hemp culture and how long it's been around the same thing. And then it becomes lots of lots of not good people getting involved just trying to make a buck.
It's the same thing with castor oil.
And that's so interesting, because there's so many similarities with this and if it works, and once again, if it works, so I'm going to, I want to throw this at you here. I would love to try this in my practice. So I need a discount code and I'm going to buy a bunch of these. I'm just going to give them the patients.
Oh, I love that. Oh my god, that'd be let's let's collect research on that. I would love to do that.
I absolutely am about that.
That would be amazing.
You know what people don't realize is that you don't have to have an FDA evaluation with us because it's a natural product. You just say, hey, here's a here's a bowel scoring issue. Here's a global assessment score. Just make it really easy. And then you just give it what I'm going to call it Net Promoter Score, which is, how likely would you be to recommend the queen of Thrones castor oil pack to a friend?
Yeah, super easy.
I mean, it's super easy. And then what happens is if you get 7,8,9, or 10, you know that you're really onto something because people are just inundated with just too much information. It's just super easy. How likely would you be to recommend the queen of Thrones to be on another show? It's like Yeah, of course. It's easy it's fun and so that's what it comes down to but we put this on some people and then I personally feel like that's yes influencers are things but you know, the proof is always kind of in the poop
It is always in the poop and, you know, it's it's and I want to go back to what you said about the quality things because castor oil has this major issue too because castor oil needs to be in a glass bottle and not in plastic bottle and on the store shelves the majority all you will see is actually plastic especially in the US. Yeah, well because of the permeability aspect right castor oil is a carrier oil and that that ricinoleic acid structure that that alcohol group on that 12 carbon that's going to grab things like a claw and it'll grab plastics, you know, like even if it's BPA free there's still other things and then just BPA and plastic honestly there's like you know, if you if you know anything about manufacturing, there's like sealants that are put or slide agents that are put in the plastic bottle UV UV agents in the plastic, it's like so you know, we need to have castor oil and must be must don't even use it if unless it's in a glass bottle and organic. Because you are bringing this into your body.
That is so fascinating. And you know, you're functioning as co host, Eric and I he's at the the FNCE 2019 which is the largest nutrition conference and one of our favorite people Is there it's Susan Lanky and she was describing somebody she was working with she does lots of food sensitivity testing.
Oh yeah. Awesome.
They actually went to Germany to have a family member tested where they found out that I'll just call PB I don't know but some plastic thing was affecting his mitochondria and the test could only be done in Germany as it turns out he was drinking the water every single day out of a plastic bottle. So clearly we're not...something's going on there.
And oil is even worse than water because oil transports things right oil is it oil, the oil grabs onto things and move things out of the body right like oil is like that. That's just what it does. Like toxins like they're all lipophilic right? So like if excess estrogens zenoestrogens are lipophilic they're so they're fat loving so they love fat so they they attach on to fat and fat is one of the ways that we eliminate toxins out of our body right so super important when you're using castor oil that is in the glass bottle.
So while so while I have you here so we know that yours is...
Glass organic it's actually extra virgin, which means it's a very, very like, like with olive oil. It's a very, very first of the press because castor oils also has good things like polyphenols in it. It has all those extra added, like vitamin E source of vitamin E. So that in itself has some great antioxidants in it. So we want them to be really, really high in high amounts in the first pressed oil.
Alright, so let's go ahead and set up the study right now. What are what are some parameters and all it is is really easy. It's just a score one through 10 or one through five or whatever. What is the first symptom we want to find out?
I would do bloating.
Bloating.
Sleep.
Pooping, obviously.
Now this is just on the external?
Yeah.
We're not doing oral. Okay.
No. Yeah. There there was a good study about that as well so you would compare it to conventional laxatives and what they found was that they found that it's it's they didn't increase the frequency, but they felt more satisfaction more complete evacuation. So it was very interesting and you do it with castor oil.
I read that one. That was in a nursing home.
Yes. Exactly in Europe. Yeah. Yeah, they're they're nice and progressive. It's so so so progressive in Europe. I just love how they go into different things. So we did what we did sleep, we did bloating, we did constipate I would. I would do pooping. And then after that, I would probably do stress levels.
So with the pooping it wouldn't be number which is what pharmaceutical companies always do. Yeah, it would be sense of full evacuation.
Yeah, satisfy like, like, like, like the way that you're pooping, right?
And then what was, so four what was the fourth one?
The fourth one was stress.
Stress.
Yeah, your perception of stress and then I would probably add like a feel better. Like how do you feel overall?
Okay, and just so on your website, how much is a pack normally?
Typically we sell the pack with the castor oil for $60.
$60. How long does it last?
Usually, so we recommend for people to do the castor oil pack daily. And if they were to do that, usually the pack will last for you know three months and you You might want to replace it. Oh yeah, it's great. And then the oil however you will need to replace oil bottle every month. At least if you're really diligent, you probably will need an oil bottle every two weeks.
So this is this is really interesting because we run into this all the time, or I do in traditional medicine. Yeah, these drugs that come out that they pay for these ads. Oh my gosh, it ends up being Oh, I don't know. $700 a month.
Oh, yes.
Xifaxan will cost 1500 dollars.
Oh, yeah. I
f it's not there, so when people hear 60 they're like, oh, but it's like, Look, if it works
$60 That's fantastic. You guys use the rest of the money and go live your life of your dreams and go travelling.
Yea. Don't be busy. Live the life of your dreams.
That's right. Live the life of your dreams. 100%
That is awesome.
Yeah. Yeah, it's great, you know, and that's, you know, that's my my intention is to, I want something to be affordable, you know, because even as a naturopath like when I see patients coming to me like they're dropping thousands of dollars, like that's medicine, that's just what it costs to be and feel great, right? It's the way that it is if you're if you're sick, but like if there's a, this is why I'm on this this this soapbox like I need to get this message out there. This is a must for me is this this is what I need. I need the world to know before I leave this this beautiful planet.
This is awesome. Well, I tell you what, I think that you've covered a lot we geeked we talked about some personal stuff. I love having you here. So you're going to reach a billion people. How do people reach you?
Awesome. So please go to my website www.DrMarisol. That's D R M A R I S O L.com and find me there. I'm super active on Instagram. If you want a good laugh if you want to like talk about your poos. Find me on Instagram at Queen of the thrones. You really need to add that the in there.
Yea I figure that out otherwise you just pull up a bunch of Game of Thrones stuff.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's really funny actually. HBO actually didn't want me to have my branding because originally had branded as Queen of Thrones. And they thought it was too close to Game of Thrones and I you know, my lawyer was arguing, "well she sells poop" education about poop and you know, castor oil packs and while you're like, you know, worldwide syndicated show, it's a little different world. But either way, HBO was really really honorable and amazing. They were cool that I could use it if I just added in "The" so just make sure it's queen of the throne. We have a little bit more power. Yeah, it makes me feel a little bit more queenly.
I have to ask you about your little emblem or whatever that is. How did you come up withthat?
I it was actually from a picture I took you know, you know, as the universe place the right things in front of me. I was doing my first photo shoot for the launch of this company. And we were driving by strange street literally, it was called strange Street. And there was a toilet on the side of the road. I should've used this as my funny story to be in. And this this toilet on the side of the road. I'm like, Oh my God, that's perfect.
A toilet just sitting out?
Sitting out there. It was you know, going to the garbage but like it was it was not even a garbage day. It was just sitting there people I guess had done on the renovations. So my photographer and I were like let's let's go so we ran to it and we started taking pictures. And so my logo is actually a picture taken from a picture of me from that photo shoot where I was sitting on the toilet and posing like a queen. So it just worked out perfectly and you know, my my thing is this is I this is my slogan "Own Your Throne". Because to me I want people out there to own their throne not only their toilet bowl right their potty time, but I want them to own their purpose in their life and their passion and they really feel that you know, when you feel better, and you digest well,you're pooping great like those are really that's a base that's that's that's the pedestals are going to help you to be able to live your best life and and and really achieve that life of your dreams. Right? So I really, my end purpose is that like, yes to get casseroles in everybody's hands. But my even longer long term trajectory is that I want people, those billion people and more if you're awesome and we just want to be healthy to like, jump on board and do this.
I think that is absolutely incredible. You know, I was just thinking about something.
My flight. My wonderful life.
Yeah, we need to get you out of here don't we? I want to uh...
But it's been I've been very blessed and thank you for having me too here.
Oh no, thank you.
Hey, we're finishing up the show here. I wanted you to make a quick guest appearance and say hi.
Oh well hello Dr. Marisol. Welcome to Gut Check Project.
Thank you so much. So awesome. We just had an amazing I I took your seat and I have to say I'm more attractive than you, Eric.
We're detailing the people here on all the benefits of Atrantil.
Awesome.
And I'm glad ya'll were able to connect. That's awesome.
Yeah, absolutely. And what I found is that she's an amazing co host. So every time that you need to do one of these little things, we're just going to fly...
Sounds perfect.
Marisol in so that she can be a co host.
I'd love that.
That's awesome. I just learned by phone I'm being replaced. That's cool.
Only only when you're busy Eric only when you're busy.
We are officially gonna close out. I'm gonna let you close this out. Let me let me do something here real quick.
We are now running the Gut Check Project closing music Eric if you'd like to take us off the air please.
I can't really make out everything you said but i think that i need to say go to lovemytummy.com/spoony to save money on Atrantil. Be sure to check out Queen of the Thrones Marisol.
All right, right on buddy. Have fun at that conference. He's at FNCE 2019
Dr. Marisol, thank you so much. Let's shut this down.
Have a great one, guys.
Welcome to the new location of the gut check project. I'm your host, Eric Rieger along with your other host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. How you doing Ken what's going on?
So well, we've moved from the Spoony studio and we are attempting our first own podcast over here at the new studio at the KBMD Health studio. We are and guess
what, you know we are still on the Spoony network, but I can't express how nice it is for you to now have a studio that's closer to the clinic. It's closer to where we do the procedures. It's the same distance for me no matter what.
And most importantly, it's closer for our guests like Jeremy who just flew in from Austin. All the way from Austin because we got so much closer.
Yeah, thank you guys. Much closer. Awesome. So our first
guest here in the new studio is going to be Jeremy Kinder here with CBD Takeout and I'm going to let Jeremy kind of take it away a little bit about what is special about CBD Takeout here in just a moment. Dr. Brown real quick, do we have any catch up items that we needed to do to kind of put in front of Jeremy to see if he wants to weigh in on anything?
Well, we got like several visual on so first of all, we want to hear the story about how you and Jeremy met Sure. We want to talk about how much synergy there is. Whenever you start meeting people and you start connecting with people. We came back from the baby bath water event and just met incredible people. We had Tim powers over here who we're going to have back on because we actually had the equipment. We were unpacking the equipment when our first real guest showed up and he was kind of helping us just show how to...
like we were like wiring this stuff together. Check this
out. Before Tim came over here, he was over at a hotel and then put his iPhone down to simply turn around and pay a guy at the bar. No, no, no, he was going to turn around and refill his ice tea. Oh fill his iced tea.
Like five feet away at like a Homewood suites are just like some. Yeah, you know, like normal family.
A little hotel. Did somebody grab his phone? Within
like three seconds, three seconds took off. So he was in town. And so me my wife, my daughter, my son was out of town, me, my wife and my daughter, we're going to take him out to dinner. And I pick him up. And this is what we have to do is figure out so now we're, I'm learning how to move the camera. So now we're back on me. Yeah, nice. Sweet. So we're working on that. And I picked him up in like a boss. I mean, like a boss. He was like, Hey, man, what's up? I'm like, why did I have to face you know Facebook you? Yeah, funny thing and he stops in the car, funny thing my phone just got stolen I'm like when? He's like, I don't know eight minutes ago. I'm like, you are a boss. I stopped the car. I'm like do we go to BestBuy? Do we get you a flip phone? What do we do here? This is crazy. So was he calling you
from like an iPad
or something? He sent me and I'm not a Facebooker and so he sent me a message said hey, phones, phones not working. It was cool about it phones not working. message me through this and I'll I'll do it through my iPad. When I picked him up, I mean, he was just like, I would have been curled up in a corner, crying, whatever. And he's like, yeah, let's just go to dinner. It's all good.
Let's go get a drink.
Let's just I mean, he was just cool and super, super neat about it. And then that evolved into a realization for himself and go ahead and expand on that. The coolest thing was is he found how addicted he was to his smartphone.
Yeah, he said he began to sleep better, he communicated better with people that are in front of him. His anxiety level, he said, the first day was palpable, where he didn't feel captivated by the phone constantly vibrating for something for him new to look at.
So, man, I don't know how much y'all want me to talk because I bet I'm a talker I'll throw in stuff on everything. But my wife and I have been talking about how do we decouple from our devices and I've tried everything if you're getting a second device or getting an Apple Watch and you know, all kinds of different stuff and honestly, the thing that that's helping me the most is just discipline you know, but I'm not going to you know get on my device and it's freaking hard I mean it's really like a you know like a drug fix of it My mind is telling me Hey, I need to check my phone go through the cycle of okay check Instagram, check the email check, you know. And then 15 minutes later I've been on my phone the whole time and I I literally don't need to be on there. But that's probably about a year ago we started talking about how how we can improve our lives and have better sleep quality and a lot of that stuff and decoupling from electronics was a big part of that
I don't remember was that Aaron File at baby bathwater who made the statement that there's a box
there's a box..No it was Jack Olocka. Oh Jack Olocka. So it was Jack Olocka . So Jack Olocka...
I’m a little bit echoed here. Is that you know what, whatever we're just we're just gonna run the first one is studio thinking first one new studio figured out. So Jack Olocka . So Jack, so this group that we're with is like, it's like, you know, like when you like meet a bunch of people and you just go oh my gosh, I'm I'm like around a bunch of like minded people yeah well Jack Olocka is a PhD in psychedelics, all his research has been in this and like not like, Oh, I'm really good at psychedelics like he actually has a doctorate on the neuro plasticity and what happens I mean, just brilliant guy. And he gave a little speech there's this thing called a Baby Einstein, we're just going let it echo doesn't matter now. Where the Baby Einstein where everybody kind of gives either an ask or a give. And you know, his give was there's something called a kitchen safe. And what you do is you put your phone in the safe in the kitchen. Yeah. And when you set the timer, you nothing can get that phone out until the timer stops. Like there's like like even if somebody breaks it, it's just pretty much like yeah, you better have a landline going Yeah, yes. You know. And so unless you have dynamite and a crowbar and the reason is is because people are so addicted to their phones and we know that the blue light affects sleep. If you look at the how important sleep is and how affected it is just getting in just shutting your phone off and not looking at it is probably the most important thing that you can do.
Yeah, yeah. My problem though, is you know, I come from the technology world and my house is wired like I have sono speakers everywhere and I have lights that are on smart plugs and all that stuff. And I did all this before I knew the the harmful effects of emf and so now I kinda thinking. So if I put my phone in a safe like I can't turn my lights on or I can't listen to music.
Or turn the air conditioner down. I’m hosed.
Just honey. I can't flush the toilet. Right. My phone's in the safe.
Yeah, yeah. So you know we're talking about how to it maybe shut all that down and all that but
yeah. That’s funny.
So let's talk a little bit about CBD take out that's why you You came up here today we're going to explore opportunities that are synergistic between the two of us. I was going to kick it off by saying one of the things that allowed you and I to get on this wavelength to start talking. So I went down to Austin to join a friend of mine. Marie and I are really good friends with the Leath’s. Rennon Leath is basically the founder of a podcast called Lazy Sundayz Lazy Sunday, Lazy Sundayz and that’s with a Z. So lazy Sunday's podcast. It's really kind of cool. It's four people who got together and have anxiety issues. So they forced themselves to start a podcast to confront their anxiety and now they just recorded their 50th Show and The 51st comes out this weekend. Yeah, so They wanted me to come down and help him see it. They held it at the Tequila 512 headquarters. Thanks to Scott Willis. Oh, can you do me a small favor
over there and hold up that bottle. oh yeah that's the old vintage bottle. this is so now I'm going to change the camera here so this is the vintage bottle. This is the original bottle of tequila 512 that when a they were in a tasting contest according to your buddy there that he said that they call this a shit-tastic label. They did. Shit-tastic.
Once they replaced it with the new and they said yeah old label kind of cool pretty shit-tastic . Yeah,
the tequilas phenomenal . The label is bad. So can you guys hear that?
Yeah.
I don't know. Maybe it? Is it? Is it too loud on me? It's been first podcast.
It might just be the headphones popping?
I don’t know. It's probably something that we did with the microphone.
Ron. So run. Shout out to Ron and Paul, everybody else that helps us out with this that they're going to be dying laughs I'm going to try and put
together Episode 21 good content from Jeremy bad audio from me.
So, anyway, we go down to do the podcast we did it at Tequila 512 casita there in Austin and man great turnout. Yeah, they had what...
60 people? I was running down to the liquor store trying to buy more liquor. Yeah, everybody was having a great time. They
maxed out the what 512 made available to them. Yeah. And then we had to shut the party down at nine. That was the rules of that particular neighborhood. So, great podcast, great turnout. And then Jeremy, I'd heard Jeremy's ads on the podcast previously, I've listened to my friends podcast before and I was really intrigued because your first and second interview specifically talked about what y'all do at CBD takeout is essentially you're going to find CBD on CBD takeouts website. It's been vetted. You've made certain that the certificates of authenticity are real, and that the measurements of everything that's in there, it's real CBD per the label that's given to you now. It was at baby bathwater that we learned that just on the retail side 26 to 28 offerings of CBD to 1 are fraudulent for every good one was 26 to 28, which are not so thankfully for someone like Jeremy and CBD take out. This is a bastion of where you know, everything that you're going to find on there is vetted. And I think that hopefully over time, you'll find the KBMD will be a part of their repertoire.
I think that would be awesome. And so I mean, Jeremy just get everybody up to speed you come from a long lineage of CBD growers. You're the seventh generation of a hemp grower you have extensive experience with CBD, your great great great great grandfather was the first original CBD producer. And now you decided to go digital but am I a little off on that?
No that’s spot on? I guess you read my bio. Yeah, like that couldn't be further from the truth.
No. So my, my career's been is in technology, so I've worked for a lot of software companies and sold, you know, really high end platforms to major corporations and may have had a great time doing it, But I wanted to do I wanted to do something different that I was passionate about. And so at the same time that I was building technology companies and doing all that I just have always had a passion for health and fitness. And I think that that goes back to being a collegiate collegiate athlete. So I was a cheerleader at the University of Kentucky. Oh, yeah. went there on a full ride. That's fantastic. died doing that. Yeah. My wife's also a cheerleader. She was a cheerleader at the University of Texas. So, you know, we grew up as gymnast and so athleticism is in my background. But then about, I don't know, age 21-22 I started and that's really kind of when things peaked I started having gut issues. And back then I didn't mean that was, what 25 years ago, something like that i there wasn't research that was readily available, you couldn't go to the, to the grocery store and find gluten free products, none of that it was really really difficult. You know, I went to doctors and had lots of blood work done and they always came back with your you're healthy, you know, but I didn't feel something just didn't feel right. And so that kind of started me off on this whole exploration of, of diet and trying to find balance in my body. And you know, I've been tweaking that for 25 years and that that's what really led us to starting CBD takeout and and getting into this industry.
Were you ever normal or more did you actually feel that there was an event that took place that changed everything?
Yeah. So when I said that, you know, around 21 22 is kind of when all of that peaked when I started peeling that onion and going back, so I had spinal meningitis when I was six months old. So massive amounts of antibiotics, you know, had IV’s in my head, all that good stuff. And, you know, at that point, nobody really knew about balancing flora, and that, that antibiotics could basically just kill all the good bacteria in your gut. And so I think from, you know, six months old that I was at a disadvantage. And then by the time maybe 15 or so, you know, just like, you know, normal teenager started having acne, and I got on tetracycline, so I took an antibiotic every single day for, you know, maybe two years. And I remember around that 15-16 I remember my body changing not in the teenage way. Just I remember Remember things with, you know, with going to the bathroom and stuff like that, that there were changes, but I didn't know. I didn't know why. So I started having a lot of athlete's foot and a lot of rashes and stuff like that. But so it was there an event? Yeah, I think there was probably a lot of events along the way that then you couple that with a college life style of shoot we were we were sponsored by Papa John's, at the University of Kentucky. I mean, we could call up and get a large pepperoni pie for like four bucks. We were We were rocking that every other day.
I have this image of Jeremy and his buddy catching that one cheerleader that they throw up in the air and she keeps getting heavier as the season goes on. It's like yeah, we gotta find a new sponsor.
Yeah, yeah. What thank God we had ephedrine back then.
That's great. So Jeremy, when when you realize that there was an opportunity there to basically take...Well, no, actually you went to this where you are starting to realize some changes. So what progressed? And how did it take to take you to where you are now?
So back that up to the question? So how did my dietary issues affect? So yeah, I think that that that just spawned a passion within me and starting to research that there were ways to put my body in a position that it could heal itself versus looking to a quick fix of let me take a pill let me you know, kind of that that approach to
this was during college when you were starting to think about this, or when did you start to do this? Yeah, yeah, that's, that's about right. It's really interesting, because everybody that we've met, that we've met in this field, when they start doing that they really get drawn to medicine. Yeah, and you didn’t. Well, I, I mean, career wise.
Oh, gotcha. Yeah. So I think What I really contemplated back then getting into more of dietetics and and going about it from the diet route, but man I am not a scientist by nature I think and and even at that stage that the issues that I was having, that you have concentration issues so, so to follow a, you know, a profession and medicine, It just wasn't in the cards for me So, and plus I like to talk so it kind of led me into more of the sales avenue of business.
You know, Eric puts people to sleep for a living and he talks the whole time so you can still do medicine.
yeah, you can do it, but they don't ever respond to anything I say. So yeah, pretty much.
Yeah. He has full on conversations with all my patients and they wake up happy like subconsciously they love communicating with Eric.
Yeah, it's always a good dream. Yeah.
So obviously then you still pursued, your career, you said that you got into software sales correct? And but you didn't lose the passion for trying to find something that was going to allow you to heal. And I like that you say it that way, find something to heal and not a quick fix. Oftentimes the companies that cater to the medicine world now, it's pharmaceutical, and it's always a quick fix. It's a patch. You know, I didn't know that growing up. I always felt like well, you may be dependent upon medicine that's just the answer. And what I've learned is that's oftentimes absolutely incorrect. You can learn to heal from the inside and get so much better. So what turned you to that for your own personal health?
So the point around pharmaceutical companies and that methodology if you look at foundationally how how they are built, they're not financially, they're not, they're not compensated to heal you, to fix you, they are compensated to get you on a regimen, that you come back and be a repeat customer. If anybody knows about publicly traded companies, the the end goal is to increase the stock price. So pharmaceutical companies, they they don't have and this isn't a political statement, this isn't a perspective of whether they're bad or good. It's simply foundationally they have to satisfy that stock price and if they get people off of their drugs, then that stock price does not go up, it goes down, right? So, from from that perspective, they they are not going to be in the business of healing people.
clear my throat there. It’s alright. So
from the perspective of,
of healing yourself, I come from the perspective that of that we're creative beings and then We, God created us in a way that we should function properly. But what stands between us and that is desires. So does the food tastes this way? Do you want? Are you chasing the way that that tastes? Or do you not want to exercise because you're too tired? So there's the I think that there are things that stand between us living an optimal life, that it comes down to choice. So I begin to peel that onion for myself in my own life of what was standing between me and optimal health. And over time, you know, I have experimented with different supplementation or different diets and so on and so forth.
So that my perspective. I want to expand a little bit about what you just said, because that's never really been addressed before, which is that our health is related to our desires. Now we know that fast food industry we know that processed food industry, they hire, I have patients who are chemical engineers, their sole job, and they've told me this is to figure out how to make the food more palatable, more satiable, more like everything about it that you want more. How do you put a coating on a freedom? So it goes down easier. Yeah. So we have the pharmaceutical industry over here trying to combat high cholesterol, obesity, coronary vascular disease. We've got the food industry over here trying to figure out how to how do I get you to eat more Doritos? How do I get you to eat more Fritos? And I love how you said that because what you basically said is something I've never thought about. We battle our desires, but our desires are influenced by both the media scientist there's some really smart people trying to get us to take certain things.
Certainly
let's go back to the beginning of this conversation was about technology. So I was in the technology business, and the exact same thing that you're talking about of how they create foods so that they're more palatable, they look better, whatever they do the same thing with, with technology. So your, your phone is created in a way that they call it gamification. How, how do they attract you? And it's really like a drug, how did they attract you in a way to keep you using the device? And once again, I'm not saying something bad about the company companies are here to be to be profitable and build a company. It's up to us to choose if if we're going to engage that or not. So it goes back to your desire. Are you do you have fomo right? So do you have to look at your device and start figuring out what am I missing? What am I missing? And I need information or you know what be at peace that you're world and things going on in your life is what's important to you versus everything else.
We're getting super deep, real quick, but I asked just another No, no, I love it. But I want to ask a couple quick things because Eric and I talked about our family and our kids all the time. You have kids, family, wife married Tell me about that real quick.
I’ve been married for 17 years.
Two kids, 14 and 8.
Two girls. They're fantastic. Beautiful.
Yeah. So the reason I bring this up is because a lot of times since I've had kids, so I have a 14 year old a 12 year old about ready to be 15 and 13. Eric has his sons. And when we sit there and you live your life, when you start thinking how do I want my kids to live? It really changes your perspective. For sure You suddenly just go Oh, no, I want and the fomo thing like you don't realize that you're on your phone, but when you see your kids on the phone, you go Wait a minute, and they look at you and go, but you're on yours. That that puts you in check. I mean, Eric and I talked about this all the time.
Yeah, it's difficult. I remember the when Ken and I actually just started working together. Whenever my oldest got a an iPod, they would communicate with other iPods. And I remember saying, Man, this is kind of weird. I don't know if I like it or not, but he does every now and then need a ride because he's going to soccer and basketball back then. And it helps. Maybe it was the lure that conveniently lure at that moment sank its little teeth in and then about three years later, he's got a phone and then suddenly we're like, well, that's certainly certainly is convenient in the younger we didn't have to wait till he was the same age. He actually got one about nine months later and honestly, looking back at it, I wish we had just never jumped off of that cliff. I do think that we both Marie I both have looked back and tried to carve out the time that we just absolutely don't have a phone at dinner when we’re having family conversations etc. But the thing that stinks, is it when it's on you and you're not planning the formal talk with with whomever you whomever you're talking with even if it's your family sometimes you like oh yeah, yeah, two seconds let me finish real quick. That never existed growing up and in all I feel is more fatigue at the end of the day just because of that.
It's kind of weird. So we
somebody shared with me this YouTube video that you should probably share with your daughters. It is a Harvard psychologist which is talking about the affects and I've shared it with Eric before but it's essentially that
the
the fact that we have these desires and things when we get a like or and I say we because we're all human or get a like when we get a share when we get whatever it releases dopamine. Yeah. And dopamine makes you feel good for a quick second.
They knew that when they created it. Isn’t that nuts? For sure that's nuts! It’s the gamification.
See that molecule right there? That’s dopamine, advancement of dopamine because we sit there and look at this, and I just think, wow, I want to actually...when we talk about it, we don't want. We don't want dopamine pleasure, you want happiness, Serotonin is the happiness molecule. And when you release dopamine, you actually reduce your happiness molecule, which is serotonin. So everything that is done, and unfortunately stopped, sorry. Everything that is done is to get people to do more of it. We're talking about tequila companies we're talking about. And the beauty is this is a great segway for us to talk about this, that this isn't a discussion of desires or everything. It's a discussion of how do we start healing? Yeah, well, one way to start healing is is that because of all this crap that's going on, we as a society, have an Endocannabinoid deficiency. And I think that's kind of what you were gonna get at that you were you went from the space of digital to realizing I need to start helping people.
Yeah. Well, I got to this place in my life where
I had enough money to where I could just say, you know what, I'm not going to do this anymore. And I mean, we could go down that route of, should I have done that in the beginning anyway, I don't know. But I decided I'm going to apply everything that I've know that I've learned to this point, and apply it to something that I'm passionate about and giving back to people. So all of this research that I've done, and you talk about not going down the route of, of medicine. I did it in my own way. Right. It was, it was experimental. And, and so I gained a lot of knowledge along the way of what worked for me and I wanted to I wanted to give back so we took that that knowledge especially in the technology space and applied it to I mean if you go to our site it's I'm going to brag a little bit our site is is fantastic. We've got a....
what's the URL real quick
Cbdtakeout.com so we've got a bot on there that readily answers questions now it's about to get an upgrade so he's not perfect right now but we're we're growing and we're we're making updates to the system but technologically we're we're, we're spot on. So we wanted to build a fantastic site that was really easy to use. And then we saw an issue in the market with this flood of CBD products that were unregulated and because I have toyed with supplementation for so long, I there’s so...You can say so much and it's hard to weed through all of that junk and so we wanted to help people by vetting those products and having a marketplace of fantastic products in one place that like you talked about that have the the lab tests and every product has the lab tests that you can pull up and see on our site.
That's awesome. I think it's I love it when people have a success in one industry and then want to give back. That’s essentially what you're saying.
Well, I wanted to do that all along, but it...
No we don’t want to tell our audience that I made you take off all your gold chains and your watches and what you've got like for Lambos out front right?
Right. Not that well. I can just pay my bills. Let’s say it that way.
But it is it's just fascinated because you come from a background of health and there's no doubt about it, dude. I mean, Kentucky cheerleading. I have had friends that have been cheerleaders and they’re like the most. I mean, they're like now CrossFit beasts that I work out with. I'm just like, holy cow. Yeah, these guys like that is hardcore.
Yeah, Kentucky cheerleaders a dynasty. I think they're on their 23rd national title, I lose count. But my my teammates still a coach their Jamal Thompson. And they are, they are beasts. They're fantastic.
It's so I mean, essentially you're a an elite athlete, gets sick, tries to discover his route develops a successful business. And then wants to give back and you're giving back by CBD takeout by trying to make sure that people have access to proper material, proper products, proper supplements. I think that's fantastic.
Yeah, I think the other thing to say there is, we were dedicated to the process. You know, when there's a product that everyone wants and needs, it's very easy to get on the latest gimmick and we refused to do that. We We're taking our time to vet these products to vet these companies and, and really vet the trends. And that's that's not easy to do that takes a lot of time to figure out what is right for for people and what products are right for people. So that's important to us.
I was just looking at something because I don't hardly ever get to correct anybody but I want to have some fun since you went to Kentucky. Kentucky did win a ton of national championships in a row. And they finally were unseated by the Texas Tech Red Raiders this last year. I just had to throw that out there. So welcome to the show.
Which
I love the I rarely get to correct anybody just asked Marie. Yeah, I'm going to use this opportunity even though we're on our first podcast and I'm going to insult our first guest, but I never get to do it. I never get
to do it and do it because
Have you seen Scott yet?
Since we were... Oh no I haven't. Okay well the nevermind.
I'm holding that okay. Yeah okay.
But back to Texas Tech now look them up and see how many they have won. I think it's one.
You're right. We just did it we just did it so you can come on the show.
In fact, you know, they are always...I work for the organization that you know for that competition. Varsity spirit worked for them for a long time. They want someone else to win because nobody wants to go compete because like well, Kentucky's already won and the competition hasn't started yet. So there are they're actively hoping that someone comes and beats the team.
I went I went to the football game this last weekend because gage went out to go visit Tech's campus and when we were there, they talked about how there was finally a school to unseat Kentucky. Yeah, I'll still give mad props. I mean, that's, that's a huge thing. I mean, so it's basketball and cheerleading. Everybody knows that about Kentucky. It's because
the university really supports the program. If you go to other universities, they just don't support the program and I understand cheerleading is a huge liability and it doesn't make any money. Kentucky just really appreciates. I mean that there's there's been a guy there. T. Lynn Williamson he is the university attorney. And he started the cheerleading team at the University of Kentucky. Dedicated.
How dedicated Kentucky is to finding talent, too. He doesn't come from Kentucky. He's originally from Denver city, Texas. Yeah. Yeah. I'm from Texas.
Yeah. How'd you end up going to Kentucky? Doing cheerleading? Yeah, yeah.
So I went to a junior college first. And I got recruited. So the junior college I went to was really good at cheerleading as well.
And you come from a background of gymnastics is that correct?
yes. Yep.
Man that's impressive.
Well, now I'm just old and...
You're not that old.
So one of the things I want to ask you did you have to quit gymnastics after you grew the mustache because the aerodynamics threw you off, or is that something that you can still do gymnastics with?
Actually when you twist it makes this cool whisp.
you spin faster.
So one of the secrets if you guys are not out there the reason why Kentucky wins and gymnastics every year is that all the men have to have mustaches because it actually it actually augments the twists and turns. Yeah, yeah, that is awesome. So you have this really kind of cool background and then you do CBD Takeout and you're doing it for one reason. It's one reason is to source proper supplements. Is it only CBD or do you guys have other supplements or what are you doing?
So it's all CBD in different shapes and forms, right? We've got salve, we've got capsules, we've got tinctures, we've got massage oils, there's quite a few different we stay away from the gimmicks like CBD candles, CBD toilet paper, that kind of stuff. We don't carry that. We want good value for our customers, you know, if you if you can't absorb it into your system, and there's really no value to it, we don't carry it. But, you know, honestly, I've built a business for scale to be able to help as many people as we can to reach as many people as we can. So in terms of direction of will we can carry other products, I'm open to that. Does it help people? Does it increase the benefit of CBD? If there's a product out there, maybe cue Atrantil. That that works together that has a harmonizing effect, we would consider that.
When he and his wife went home, he let me know that she'd already picked up Atrantil from people's pharmacy. Oh, that's awesome.
Yeah. Well, what I love about this is that you're not doing the death by 1000 cuts. You're staying true to one thing. We're going to do one thing. We're going to build a really good website first.
Yep.
We're going to make sure that the thing that I'm good at which is digital, we're going to do it well. And then we're going to offer this. Now you have a calling to this, why do you think it's going to make a difference?
I think in that goes back to you talking about building it in a way that we can execute properly. I, I'm convinced that and I mean there's science behind this, you can talk about this that our bodies need cannabis. And and so I, I think that there's some interesting reasons why people have been have been kept from cannabis for so long. And I'm frankly I'm just excited to be a part of call it a revolution Call it whatever. I think the impact that cannabis can have on people lives because you can remove so many pharmaceuticals, you can aid with cannabis. And then that puts you on a road. I don't think cannabis is the end all. I think that it can still be a crutch depending on how you use it. I think it is. It has the potential to put people on the road to healing. So I think it's very powerful. I think that there is a fantastic opportunity. If we can wade through all of the noise and trust me people there is a lot of noise in the business right now. The the people that I talked to day in and day out. There's some great people that are getting into the cannabis business, but there's a lot of people that honestly it's the the old culture of just drug dealers that have moved one step over to legitimising and they still have the same principles and so we're really committed to the culture of cannabis and representing it in in a proper way and we could spend probably an hour talking about what I think the the proper way to do that but...
Let me just clarify really quick for the listeners here so cannabis what you're talking about right now on your website is purely CBD correc?t
Correct. Yes and we split that up. We have some that are guaranteed THC free we've got a filter on that. If you need something that is guaranteed THC free you can find it easily. But everything is hemp derived so it's all . 3% or less so all federally legal.
And it's so frustrating because when we get into this we understand that the confusion about it. Cannabis where you're knowledgeable about it because we know that comes from the same genus species of the plant, but everybody hears cannabis and they have a connotation of it.
Yeah but in and that's the that's the thing that I'm talking about changing because I believe in the power of THC as well in proper dosing. But here's the thing is we don't even in legal states, the the science has not come along enough for people to get accurate. dosing, time and time again, it's still trial and error. And so while you can't overdose from THC, you know, from a medicinal standpoint where you know, you can't kill yourself, but it can cause psychological issues if you consume too much THC. So that's the culture that I'm talking about where THC has this, this negative connotation because it's been attached to this attitude of rebellion. How high can I get, can I get the strongest THC product available, and I just think that's wrong. And because it's been represented that way, then we don't get the the truly beneficial aspects of THC and and so many people have dismissed it, but then they'll go get, you know, an anti anxiety drug that causes 15 other issues. So how do we move back to this culture of, you know, business people should be able to consume small amounts of THC that are blended with other cannabinoids. So if it's just THC, that's where that's where you have issues with. I'm super paranoid and I'm freaked out. If you were to consume a nice dose of CBD in conjunction with that, it balances it out real nicely. So I just think that the industry is in the elementary stages right now and I'm talking to all of the the entire cannabis industry. I think it's in the elementary stages. And we're excited to be a part of that.
You know, we if anybody's interested in getting a little bit more into this Chris Cresser just had a little client in both friends of ours just had a little client who is CEO of oh hi energetics on his show. And Will went into deep detail about the history of hemp, CBD, marijuana, Cannabis, whatever. And it's been ingrained in our culture for so many years, our genetics actually eat a certain amount of it. And one of the things that's really fascinating to me is that we used to feed our livestock, hemp. And when they would eat that, like a chicken would have an anecdote of 250 milligrams of CBDA in it and then our bodies would convert it. That would be the acidic version of it to get all sciency and stuff. But basically, we were getting CBD in our diet until the US government decided to say. Okay, now wait, this is an illegal product, we're going to ban it and then the farm bill came around just recently in the last five years and started changing things and now it's become more available, but I think you're exactly right. I think that the black and white notion of I'm going to get high or I'm not going to get high I'm going to do this and that am I doing something? No I was testing mine. But we're...Eric you could probably attest to this remember that the Joe Rogan does a whole set about how people have done that they get the little gummy. Eric and I, Eric and I are huge comedy fans. Yeah, yeah, like like he actually takes his sons to comedy shows when they buy and don't like to see what you see. Who the guys you've seeing live?
In the last year we've seen Bill Burr, Tom Segura, Marie went with us on that and we also saw Hannibal Burris.
Yeah.
I mean it's it's a pretty rich and actually gauge for his birthday last week he and his friends went to go see Eric Andre that's off the chain. Wild stuff right there.
Yeah, Who was the comedian at baby bathwater that just wrecked it.
Oh, goodness. What is her name? She killed it.
She's a total amateur and just gets up there and just starts. She was in
She was in between bands on the top of a mountain and when I mean she nailed it. It was like, you gotta have your own Netflix special nailed, really. And she just sat there with her iPhone. She's like, I just don't talk about this and just killed.
Love it.
I respect comedy at that level, just having the balls to get up there and just do it is nuts.
No kidding.
So anyways, I'm digressing, but basically Joe Rogan does a whole set about how the guy gives him a gummy and he goes, just eat the arm. He's
like the arm? What kind of shit are we making these days?
They just are gummy bears.
They just they are.
I can't tell you how many times I hear that story of people. They're like, oh, I'm going on vacation. My wife and I are going on vacation to Colorado. And we're going to eat some gummies so they eat gummies and they're like, man, I got so high. I was freaked out and like what I mean, that's what I'm talking about. You don't have access to how do you dose properly and edibles are especially bad because you're going through your digestive system and how much did you eat before that? How hydrated you are? So you know the insulin uptake yet all of that...
Jeremy, have you ever tried alcohol? Drink this bottle.
Right? Right just chug it.
Yeah.
yeah. Can you guys hear me crackling?
Yeah, I don't know.
What's up with that?
Yeah, I think so.
You know what I'm gonna go take a little pee break real quick. Okay, figure we forgot the crackling you guys keep talking and you're on camera right now.
All right.
Okay so what we'll do is we'll hit here real quick about whenever someone does visit CBD takeout something that's interesting to me. We get feedback a lot about people that take CBD currently and order it from KBMD health. Most of our feedback though, is directed towards people who come to see Ken for gut issues in particular, IBD such as Crohn's, ulcerative colitis, advancing proctitus, even to a lesser extent, a lot of folks who have found issues with celiac disease, but that began to open up a completely different arm of people who have systemic autoimmune disease. So a lot of IBD's are viewed as are viewed as an autoimmune disease in and of themselves, but so is psoriatic arthritis or all the way up to Alzheimer's. Where do you get a lot of your reviews from? Because the thing I really love about your right, your website's great, and I've seen it before, but as I'm watching it scroll now. You get so many athletes on here. Yeah. And Brandon, the host of lazy Sunday'z podcast, has his own CrossFit gym. So the synergy there and your application obviously the way that you're marketing to these folks, where do you get mostl of your reviews and do you see them kind of branch out a little bit?
Yeah. So one of the things that we looked at when we we developed a site was what are the the markets that we want to to support and athletes is definitely one of those you can see that pretty quickly when you go to the site. And the reason that we wanted to focus on athletes is because the CBD's ability to help with recovery is is really, really great. So and what I mean by that is I don't think it's any secret that CBD helps with sleep, sleep quality. So if you can improve your your sleep quality, then your body is going to recover better and more quickly and for athletes that that's key, especially within the CrossFit, CrossFit world. It's how much how much output can you get out of your body, and so recovery is the biggest is a big deal there. And then the other thing is, you've got receptors in your skin, Endocannabinoid receptors and so you can use topicals to reduce soreness. So athletes use our products very consistently. So obviously a group that we we wanted to service. Another group is the aging community that does have issues with specifically arthritis, because, like you mentioned, Eric arthritis is a symptom of, of inflammation. And so CBD has shown that it has the ability to lower inflammation. And so we get a lot of feedback from that group. I think also that group is, I don't know, I feel like they are more open to providing us feedback. We get more more feedback from that age group than we do from our athletes. Athletes are always talking about it when we see them, but that aging community man they give us a lot of reviews and feedback, a lot of emails and we hear fantastic stories, you know, you want to talk about reaping the benefits of creating a company. We talked about this quite a bit of, you know, customer saying, I haven't been able to walk in, you know, six months because of my arthritis. And now I it's changed. This was a word that was used, it changed my countenance I had to go look it up. But it really is helping with that arthritic community. In fact, we've written a couple of blogs on on how it helps with arthritis.
Wasn't Chad Hudson, his father, one of those that..
He was, yeah, he got off of opioids. I mean that that stuff blows me away when we look at the opioid crisis that that we're having in the United States. If if we are directly directly related to helping people get off of opioids, man, I'll keep doing this forever.
That's that's, that's no joke. So Ken, just while you stepped out. I was talking about how we get feedback through KBMD mostly it originates around gut health gut issues, gut inflammation about what we've started to basically branch out and get reviews from people going, I have autoimmune disease, etc, etc. But essentially, like Jeremy just outlined, it all is based around inflammation. So according to their website, if you look at everything and it's it's based around athletes and recovery is where they started getting their reviews, but now, just like what we experienced the KBMD health, you're starting to get reviews from all different facets and it's the geriatric community is pretty impressed I think with their, their access now to CBD. And it's unfortunate that it took until their golden years to start finding something that is going to work for them.
There's a couple of, if I can, a couple of other areas unless you're going to if you're going to change the topic. We gotta goat in here.
We've got a goat. Goodness gracious.
So a couple of other areas that we are focused on on the site. One is, is pets because they also have an endocannabinoid system. And, you know, we hear dogs freaking out on the 4th of July.
I'm sorry, I was trying to time that to open for you. I was going to have a bark and I tried to download an animal sound and it became a goat. So but one of the things that people don't realize is that goats take CBD too. Yes, if you have goats. Let's make sure that...
We have a goat section...look for the goat tab.
So one of the things so I I've actually talked to a lot of high goat athletes that have been going to your site CBD takeout Yeah, yeah. These are elite goat athletes. These are goat jumpers goat runners, and they love it.
Yeah, yeah. We're thinking about rebranding it to just be I mean the feedback we get from the goat community.
Of the animal species they're some of the best credits in there.
Yeah.
And they can they can actually afford high level CBD.
You'll find that selection in your takeout C Billy Dee
I was trying to think of something, something snappy, but that was good.
I'm really good. I'm really good at URLs, man.
Yeah.
So yeah, so um, unfortunately, I have to, you know, one of the one of the addictions that Eric does have is that he buys basically he owns every domain name.
He spends hours on Godaddy.
I got an idea
All of a sudden you'll be like oh, that'll be funny to have like goat CBD athletes but somebody bought that?
I have JeremyKinder.com if you want it?
Yeah.
Just kidding.
20 grand.
I'm sorry.
No, I mean, the same endocannabinoid system so it it helps with anxiety and you know, dogs freaking out on the Fourth of July and if they have arthritis, I mean it's really beneficial. So we've got dog treats and tinctures and all that stuff for cats and dogs and animals.
So let's just really quick because when we talked on the phone, we were talking more like my whole role is science. So not to sit there and a joke about goats and goat athletes and all sort of stuff but let's be honest about something. We we have a system called the endocannabinoid system, just as important as the cardiovascular system, neurologic system or gastro intestinal system, which I'm a specialist in. Eventually we're going to have doctors labeled as Endocannabinologist.
Yeah.
It's that important that it will be incorporated into med school, we will have specialists. And what we're going to need is people like you that are sorting through people that are just trying to make a buck, and you're able to put stuff up there that can actually help some people. So much like I like a website called examine.com. Where they vet products, you're doing the exact same thing for the CBD industry. And I commend you on that. And I want to thank you for coming out of your other other profession and being able to put your digital expertise into something to help people.
Yeah, it appreciate it. You're right. We talked about the mess. I mean, what do you say 22 out of 24 products I don't know.
Actually what they said was 26 to 28 to one yeah, is a fraudulent product.
I don't know if you guys listen to the FDA hearing on CBD, but one of the things that kept coming up over and over and over maybe the most consistent thing was, how many fraudulent products there are out there. And it's it's bad. And I think, I mean, that's where the benefit of having the FDA regulate. You know, what can be said and what can't you know, from a marketing perspective is important because you've got people that just want to make a quick buck and they look for situations like this on a early to market, non regulated product that actually works. It is a quick buck type business person's dream. But you got to balance that with how do we vet all these products out and vet these companies. And that's what we we partner with those companies that we feel like are going to be there for the long term. And, and those are the products that we have.
What I feel I like the most though about CBD takeout and this approach is that oftentimes with something like the FDA, you're right, they may try to put in some tools or mechanisms to prevent something from happening. But what ends up happening oftentimes is they block access to legitimacy.
Yeah.
So really, what Jeremy and his company are doing, I think, is from the inside, you're basically beating them to the punch saying no no no we've got a mechanism here. We can filter out the bad, we want to bring you the good so having a resource like that to turn to say, if I shop here this is where I'm going to find the high quality product it's no different than going to a natural grocers and knowing that every time you buy produce in there it's going to be organic regardless of the supplier
Yeah.
Or going to a whole foods and saying when I shop in the organic section here, I know this has been vetted, it's been tested I can trust what I'm buying here. There's lots of other reputable grocery stores I'm not just singling them out but there's a market for the market itself to police itself and they will rise.
Yeah, you know where I think that's going to be particularly important at where I think that we're we're going to really take off is when the other cannabinoids start catching on when that research research starts showing that CBN CBG and blended cannabinoids because we will have already shown our community that we vet CBD companies and it's going to be the same companies that are doing the research on CBN CBG and we will be able to offer that very quickly to our customers as that comes to market.
For somebody who is a former cheerleader slash digital marketer who doesn't believe that he should have get on a new medicine you are you are speaking like a doctor. And it is phenomenal. You're speaking like a researcher. What you're describing is, you understand the next wave of this. The majority of people don't even have any clue about CBD or anything else like that. But you're talking next level type stuff. Because the way that I envision it is the endocannabinologist will sit there and say, oh, my goodness, you have ankylosing spondylitis with ankylosing spondylitis. What I believe is that you need a ratio of THC of 10% CBD of 30% CBG of x and this is going to be the response you're going to have in order to be able to control your immune system. And we're not gonna have to put you on prednisone would not have to put you on infliximab, but Remicade or Humera, and the future of this is essentially real medicine. And when, because what I would like to do, I mean, when you sit there and say I love the fact in the very beginning of the show, you said, Well, I made enough money doing this other thing that I can focus on my other thing, I would like to make enough money doing my thing that I can sit there and do my real passion, which is research. I love research. I want to be able to sit there and say, Jeremy, I believe that I'm going to do this study, we're going to pay for it. We're going to look at what these different Endocannabinoids do in different diseases, and then I can go to somebody like you that can actually promote it in an ethical, honest way to say that this is the research that's there. If this is something that you believe that you need, that's awesome, but we've done our homework on the products that are there. And quite honestly, if it's OhHi energetics if it's elixinol that CBD line with CBD plus, these are all really good companies. Yeah, we need to get the word out. It doesn't matter who's putting it out there. Yeah, it's Not a competition anymore. It's a matter of let's start helping some people.
Yeah, yeah, man, you're hitting on a lot of a lot of great things that I'm it. I'm wondering how how deep I outta go into this, but you talk about ethics. And I mean, that is a common thing that you hear in business people talking about, we want to do this ethically I'm to the point that if if we can't do it ethically, I'm not going to do it. And that that really becomes a complicated issue. When you look at you gotta pay your bills, you got it, you have to decide, do we make this dollar or do we do this ethically, and I just got to the point where if I'm very solidified in that fact of the company will grow if we are servicing enough people in the right way. And when you talk about doing that research Doing what you're passionate about, and doing it ethically. I just encourage you to stick to that. And things, things will happen to reward that in a way because we need that research from from a humanity standpoint, we're our, our society is so written with anxiety, and I mean, everybody it is, I hate to use extremes, but everybody hates each other because they're on this political side or that political side and I'm just tired of, of our society being that way. And I'm susceptible as well. And and so, I, you start sparking, sparking these emotions in me when you start talking about those things of ethics and what you're passionate about and all those things because, man, our country has, has falsely said that We we were on this righteous pursuit and and we've said it for a long time as a country. And honestly, I don't think that was the deal. I think we were in the pursuit of of making money. And so I'm hoping that we can heal as a nation and go back to, to this place of being responsible and helping each other out even when it might be detrimental to ourselves. And what I mean by that is, okay, I'm going to help you even though that's going to cost me money in a way where I can't pay my bills. So stepping out there in a way to help each other like we should be doing.
That reminds me of the book Atlas Shrugged by Imran.
Imran. Yeah.
The definition of altruism to actually do something where you are not going to benefit. Yeah, that is the definition of it. So...
Big shout out also since we've been talking about CPG to Dan and Kayla Wright from Green Sweet are a small company that is started just out of California and they're going around finding all organic land from California is as far east as Texas to plant basically hemp and cultivate before it grows too big so that they can simply go to CPG. Because they want to do research.
Yeah.
They want they are dedicated research and they're going to work with OhHi. And hopefully us as we go forward.
It's one of those things this is like this is it's it's super cool that we're setting up this conversation because that means is essentially the first time we've met but it's crazy. How many people want the same thing. You want your kids to be healthy. You want to live a healthy life. Yes. You want to be able to pay your bills. Yes, you want to do all this stuff, but the majority of people want society to rise as a whole. Yeah, we really want to help and I think that one way that we can do this is to focus on the endocannabinoid system. Yeah, and just get everything back in balance. Yep, that's my thing that I tell all my patients The endocannabinoid system. What it does is just mediates everything to get everybody back in balance so that you're not over firing. It's not a big nerve that's setting off.
Yeah. Yeah. The cool thing about that is, you know, Eric, you were talking about the feedback that we get. And yeah, I think CBD might be getting a bad rap for all it fixes everything. But the weird thing about it is when you balance your body, I mean, I was talking to somebody the other day that said that they had male male pattern baldness and they said, Well, my hair started growing back. And you could you could save what the CBD is not going to do that. But the thing is, is CBD is putting his body back in balance to do what it was supposed to do. So his body was just out of balance in a way.
Alright, so I mean, not to not to interrupt, but a great example is when I see patients and they're like I've have I'm having weight loss. I'm having a hair falling out having this and that and then we can get to the point where you realize oh, you're not sleeping well, you're stressed. Your your thyroids out, and then we fix that. And then everything starts fixing itself. They don't think anything of that, right? They're like, Oh, well, we got your thyroid back to normal. Yeah, your hair is growing back, you're sleeping better. You're having normal bowel movements. It's all good. They're like, Oh, yeah, my thyroid's back to normal. That's cool. And we did that through nutrition usually, yeah. Because I'm not a not an endocrinologist. So I don't just you know, but we usually do it through nutrition and you know, change in lifestyle. Nobody thinks anything of that and, and then when we do the endocannabinoid system, ahthat can't be true, yeah. Guess what? Yeah, it essentially is like a hormone. Yeah, it's essentially it's a system. The endocrinology system is everywhere in your body. Your neurological system is everywhere in your body. The endocannabinoid system is everywhere in your body. Why can't it just come back to balance and cool things started happening?
Yeah, it can
That's awesome well I think that'll do it for our first podcast from the first studio our first our new studio
Well we want to we want to end with one, okay. We always want to end with something with our guests.
Yeah.
So Jeremy tell us one last time about CBD takeout where they can go to find you where they can find you on social media the usual stuff and why supporting you supports the industry and helps people.
Yep. Right on. So CBDtakeout.com. You can find us on Instagram CBD underscore takeout Facebook CBD takeout you know all the normal stuff you can find this if you go looking for us. We are a marketplace that vet CBD companies and provides the best slash high value CBD products and that has many different forms. You know, tinctures, salves, all that good stuff. And in one fantastic, easy to use website, one place to find that you know, going back to the the benefit of the industry is we're doing the work you know speaking to you customers. We know that you're overwhelmed with trying to find a good CBD product first you're like, what does this do? Second, why is it everywhere in the gas station or whatever? Third, how do I choose the product for me? I would recommend you go to CBDtakeout.com, we're doing that work for you and constantly reading laws, reading science, reading the research and vetting these companies to provide great products for you to use.
It's awesome. I got one question for you. I've been looking for the best CBD toilet paper. Do you guys offer that?
Yes and it's made of goats hair.
No, no mo nomo hair.
There you go. That's great.
So and I wanted to add one of the things that you said when we first met to your website that ya'll wanted to add and the reason why I wanted to get you in and and Ken here together is soon ya'll like to be able feature educational videos. Basically walk people through the application of CBD and what to look for.
Yeah, certainly. And we're about to launch a video series. It takes time, you know, coming from the technology world. I don't have video, well, I didn't have video equipment. I didn't have all these microphones and all this stuff and so acquiring that and figuring out what equipment do we need and, and hiring a good editing company and because if you outsource everything, you guys have probably figured this out, you lose your voice. And and so we figured that out pretty early that if we had a marketing agency doing everything for us and videographers and everything, then they were telling us what to do and they were chopping it up in a way that we didn't necessarily want to do. So we have decided to slow that down. Everything is done in in house and then we we will dictate, you know, hire out certain things but it takes time to build all of that but we are coming out with a video educational series. And y'all frankly, let us know what you want to hear we we don't want to just be talking about stuff that we're interested in. We're directing this to you guys and to educate, educate our customers, so let us know.
Well, I'm going to offer this to CBD Takeout that the thing that we can offer Eric and I, which is science, yep. And so, you know, if there's, we have access to graduate students that look up a lot of articles. I just got into several articles today from our favorite graduate student, and she sent me some crazy stuff on the endocannabinoid system and autism and you just eat it up because then you start breaking it down. What I want to do is I want to say the how and the why that these things can happen. Yeah, for instance, it isn't that oh male pattern baldness gets better with this. I'm going to say, here's the markers that get improved when you take CBD because your own endocannabinoid system will decrease the inflammatory brain markers aisle 12 aisle 23, TNF alpha, TNF beta and it's done in animals and it's done in humans and they look at it and people go there's no research. No, there's tons of research. Yeah, there's tons of research, you just got to put the work in and we fortunately have somebody who's a rock star at finding this kind of information and I get daily emails that when I have my next job when I make enough money and I can do what you're doing into the thing that I really want to do, then I can sit there and spend all day looking at it but that you're exactly right. So our our, our gift to you, we want to make sure that CBD takeout is successful. And we want to help you in any way. So if your if your audience if your listeners ask questions, we want to make videos for you CBD takeouts and not for a product for you that we can offer some help for your listeners and explain different things.
Yeah, yeah, fantastic. I think that'll be great because one of the things I mean, it's why I'm here is there, there are people out there that don't want to be guinea pigs and don't want anecdotal evidence they want science and frankly, I don't blame them and, and so that's one of the things that we want to get better at is providing hard science as it's coming out and being on the cutting edge of all the research we want to be leading with with that information.
Sweet. Jeremy, thank you so much for hopping on the show. So you'll find Jeremy's fine offerings at CBDtakeout.com that is CBDtakeout.com also brought to you today by Atrantil. Go to lovemytummy.com forward slash spoony save some money. But you're giving me hands here.
I'm just giving hands because I'm just like oh wow this is sponsored by so many wonderful things
That's right.
Sponsored by love, sponsored by God, this is sponsored by the world, this is sponsored by...
Yeah, I wanna I want to thank lazy Sunday'z Podcast for bringing Jeremy and I together Tequila 512 casita, you can find about find out more about tequila 512 at tequila512.com. And of course, the new website for KBMD Health should be rolling out pretty soon KBMDhealth.com. If you don't like the current site, you have no one to blame but me because websites should not be built by anesthesia providers. Shitty website.
Right? So Jeremy, so this is this is one of the things and this is this little piece of advice to everybody out there listening. So I have a patient who's an extremely successful business person. And the one of the things he told me was that you want to know the number one reason why businesses fail. I'm going to ask you this. What's Jeremy, what's the number one reason why businesses fail?
I would say lack of execution.
That's much better than me. I said lack of funding. Okay, so he said, they never jump. They never jump off the dock. Yeah, there's essentially execution. Yeah, they never just jumped anf go well, Eric and I are jumpers and sometimes we don't build real build the best thing.
It's a long way down. A really, really long way. Yeah.
And then when you smack, then what do you do? There's a quote from Mike Tyson that that I love. And he said, I'm gonna mess it all up. I'm paraphrasing. Everybody's tough until they get hit in the mouth.
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. That's his classic quote.
Yeah, I mean.
Everybody says I'm gonna do this, this and this
Now, what do you do? So jumping, I'm also a jumper. And I've had to learn over time when you bounce now what do you do? And I've learned to think before I jump a little bit, man, when I was young, I would just jump. Here we go. You gotta jump. I mean, that's how you start, but then when you bounce then what do you do? How do you execute from there on out?
Well the beauty of this is that I'm not a jumper by nature I'm a I'm truly like and it's funny when I think about it I'm truly a scientist by nature I've been Yeah, I've been a nerd my entire life. I've been in healthcare my entire life. And then you meet somebody like Eric and you get inspired and then we developed a product called Atrantil. And all of a sudden you realize that you become a jumper but I'm like, does not necessarily parachute but it's more Mary Poppins. My umbrella is science. Yes, well, I'm gonna jump but I'm pretty good idea that because of what's already been discovered what's already been shown, I'm going to land softly. Yeah, and I'm not going to do a dead cat bounce and, you know, just smack. And that's an old stock term, I think where people would sit there and say when the stock just plummets, it'll have a little bounce and that adds a dead cat bounce. I'm not trying to offend the feline lovers and things like that.
If you are get some CBDs and your cat will feel better.
It's a stock term.
But yeah so I love being around like minded people like you you've got a ton of energy your your mission on CBD takeout is not only ethical but it's going to change lives and we're in the same boat we're here to help people Yeah, I love it. So I want to thank you so much for being our first guest on the show brother.
Thanks for having me.
Thanks a lot Jeremy.
Yeah, that's Episode 21 in the books be sure and check us out KBMDhealth.com and we will see ya'll with Episode 22.
Do we need to do anything with love my tummy or anything?
Lovemytummy.com/spoony you can still save money at lovemytummy.com/spoony. That's where you'll get your Atrntil which will actually enhance the use of your CBD
Now not to steal away from CBD Takeout but our Spoony friends move a little CBD as well.
They are they are definitely moving a little bit of CBD. Thank you to Ron everybody over at Mojo and at Spoony and all the listeners there as well. It's good to be back on the air. We appreciate all the support
Hi I'm Jay Farner CO Quicken loans 30% of Americans who are planning home improvements of $5000 or more will pay for those renovations with a high interest credit card that may not be a great idea a better idea may be to take cash out of your home with the Quicken loans 30 year fixed-rate mortgage the rate today in our 30 year fixed rate mortgage is 3.99% APR 4.08% call us today at 800 Quicken or go to rocket mortgage.com 125% B receive it is not real because of drinking and nobody six and 130 and Haley IRA as they get check project episode number 20 with your host Dr. Ken Brown I am Eric Rager Dr. Ken what's up episode number 20 Lovett sleep now going to tend to time wow I know it's amazing the beautiful spoony studios excellent excellent so no just today no guest today because we can do some cool new low fund that I were to do that were to push the boundaries what we did we talk about today well we have several people have written talked about sleep apnea not only through email but we have people who come to the clinic with people who come through the procedures they want to know what can I do about sleep apnea and it's funny because whenever we have them go sleep for the procedures oftentimes we are able to recognize you may need to go and get checked out for your sleep apnea problem and then they ineffably say I know I had sleep apnea and then many times they end up going getting tested right back and say I did thank you exactly so we always talk about this that the three pillars of health gut brain and sleep sleep is so important that for next month's KB MD subscription box your health has arrived is to be an addition of things to help people sleep better get into a deeper sleep get into good sleep hygiene because it's so important and just the fact that people will have obstructive sleep apnea right like this guy right here so I learned I have obstructive sleep apnea and I've snored my entire life didn't think anything of it and then of course you know we know that my kids by love tennis I took Lucas on a turn at one time and he said you kept me up all night snoring and then he lost the message that is match and I went okay. Checked out so once my friend ear nose and throat doctor Dr. Keith with a knee and he sent me home with an at-home sleep monitor and we were both surprised me he's like a friend and source that there is like you know you just kind of appeasing the family is like do you horrible sleep apnea what I don't fit the profile of no little chubby but the but I'm not and I don't have big thick neck and have those other things but as it turned out I have a lot of redundant tissue in the back my throat right word and address that we got some cool stuff on look at some studies about that because now I realize oh my gosh as we attempt to bridge the gap between natural solutions and traditional medicine there's stuff that has been published years ago very easy to do very life-changing and were to work on that today so if you have trouble sleeping make sure you tune into the show went in and talk about what it is to have symptoms of sleep apnea a lot of people don't even realize why they suddenly feel fatigued why they feel like they're trying to lose weight but simply co-I don't know I think that the most common symptom of sleep apnea is a bruise on your shoulder from the wife punching you all night long I know I know I snore real bad when the shoulder hurts because she's rolled me over on it and then I got a big bruising that's out that's the most common symptom of sleep apnea is the spousal attack as you continue to keep the whole house up so that I'm really lucky because I don't snore and fortunately not my wife does not snore either so it's pretty quiet but my dad did and he had sleep apnea and it was he did not want the machine he did not want to address it but when he did there was no turning back he felt better he had better energy he was glad that he was able to address the issue that he didn't realize was sidelining him for so long my goal for our subscription box and the D had subscription box which I am eating again what they had on Tuesday were to continue to launch as things could be so exciting we will change the landscape of health in the DFW Metroplex and hopefully spread beyond the Metroplex and get way out there and really start looking at some things that's one of the reasons why I think that we can use a subscription box to try and get these aspects of health improved so that everything works when you don't get into your proper circadian rhythm of sleeping your gut motility changes and you can then have got issues which is my primary thing but then we start looking at that that leads to autoimmune disease right let alone the other aspects of increased cortisol increased weight gain insulin sensitivity actually decreases and now you've got this whole recipe of why is a nation we continue to get sicker one of the problems as we do not have proper sleep hygiene one thing that happens also which is that vicious cycle is it when you don't sleep good that stressor decreases and they shown this your two endogenous Endo cannabinoid site known as a nano might into AG Ananda my goes down to AG goes up which is your stress and a cannabinoid in response to the stress it's going on and then because a jury in fight or flight also signed all of the time so unfortunately if you're one of these people you hopefully are listening to this and you're driving to work and if you're one of these people that notices that you get tired on your drive home and everything a lot of this is out of your control a lot of this is a hormonal response due to improper sleep and even if you go into sleep a long time select one of the things ultimate Joe's podcast I've always been a big fan of Adam ruins everything right yet you know that show if your chat site is Adam Conover I think is a really funny guy and if it is a good actor and all this other stuff but what they do is that they look at different things they haven't a team of researchers do different stuff now he sort of taken that show in his own podcast so is bringing those experts on the just little snippets on the show and hold you like a full hour with them will get a sleep expert on and he freely admitted he goes I grew up in a home I think it's a town of Argosy's Irish group at home or having a nightcap is very normal then you will so for years I would work odd hours I would have a drink to get tired and go to sleep and then she said will here's what happens with that yes alcohol is a sedative you go to sleep but what it does is when it wears off you have a spike in energy in it will draw you out of your circadian rhythm and it moves your REM sleep further along so that typically when you're in your RAM is when you're waking up at six or 7 AM yeah and it disrupts the whole process so even though you went to sleep and if you get a good sleep you screwed that up same thing will happen sleep apnea the second you go into an ethnic episode it raises your awareness cortisol goes up pulls you out of that circadian rhythm and that happens so today were going to do some cool tricks on how to help sleep apnea forcibly like me if you get redundant tissue in this different stuff that's really cool the other really cool thing that were to do today is do you remember that kick ass guess that we had named Brandon Brown I do remember Rainer Brandon Brown from a flower power no flower child flower child our child sous chef at flower at the flower child great episode check that out is super cool dude he he contacted us he said you know what you guys as such's something really unique your doctor you there neuron's booty network which is kind of a ghetto chef Patrick's got his show is a catch start doing a little. Today for the first time where you have the tracking with KB MD CBD show it did happen and we have results were going to show how to make one thing and so something that was made already and brought in today but I've watched a lot of the Food Network back one of my patients is a producer for the Food Network site I get the inside scoop on how that action works in and everything so it's kinda cool to always fun to see the backing of the backend of how the stuff gets produced how they do another set it up but I watch a lot of Food Network authority to do that were to do a live cooking show you make some cool stuff today were the new CVD word and talk about that and we also make sure that the study just came out today as a matter fact I just saw where eating flavonoids and polyphenols specifically they looked at that from teasing from brute strength when you had a high risk population a smoking population and people with poor lifestyle significantly decrease the cancer risk wow so that brings up our moment of polyphenol talk and ponder on teal so we develop upfront to forget health overall good health but were realizing that the powerful polyphenols is the only NSF certified meaning if you're an athlete you can take this your doctor to get pop for anything wrong and if this actually has been shown to help athletic performance by increasing nitric oxide to the muscle strength we know the polyphenols do that we know the polyphenols actually decrease the oxidative stress and we also know that the polyphenols go to the Cold War your body breaks it down for anti-inflammatory antiaging molecules that were to call post-biotics that I got some cool news on that also so the fact that this study just came out more and more and more were hearing about how beneficial these molecules are these are the things that make vegetables and fruits colorful right from the Mediterranean diet study just came out that showed it you lead a high risk lifestyle meaning if you smoke or you eat processed foods you need to make sure that you get a significant amount of polyphenols in and one way to do to stake out front to in a really easy way to do it saves money is to vertigo they can go to love my tummy.com/study and use code spinning sinks and money so we will talk more about polyphenols we'll talk more our goal here is Dutch I project is just to make you your best you no matter what your lifestyle is were you did little like tax to see if we can figure out Kathleen speaking on life actually have two things that we need to address on some quick business so we have notified the six winners however I get to that have not heard back from them when we hear back from those to some going to resend the email to those two and confirm with everyone and we can read out the winners names I'll resend that email by tomorrow just be sure and check your email just in case you didn't go through last time that we want to make certain we have the correct mailing address etc. and then we will send out the winning six packages second thing what are they getting by what they are getting Dr. Brown's signature protection package which is a month supply of trying to heal as well as your choice of sentiment or natural flavored CVD KPMG CBD which of course carries its own certificate of authenticity and day means that day you're getting a real CBD product while so the Dr. Brown you call it the signature protection package correct okay also available way better than what I would put together which would've been a beware of $can amaze that's my protection yeah that has nothing to the doctor that you can also order your own signature protection package by going to KB MD health.com that again is KB MD health.com drop us a line and let us know that you have shared and subscribe to get check project in one last thing KB MD box KB MD box.com if you like we've gotten great feedback on the first now six weeks into launching KPD health box most people didn't really realize the value that was going to be in there it's well over $100 in savings it does include doctrine to and when you break it down it is the least expensive place to find out trying to will my deal is it isn't so much on the short-term savings is that if you commit to this and really really do this for me a solid six months to a year were to transform your life or to heal your gut were to get to sleep better to protect your brain and your good do it through vetted supplements that are backed by science absolutely and it's K BMD box.com you can sign up on your own and just to play on that we have a story later in today show that I know that touchdown with you a little bit about what it takes to have a roadmap to success and why road you may be loaded with all of the information that you need to succeed to be healthy to be fit etc. but it always makes you more productive to have a roadmap even if you create it yourself or you use somebody else's crib notes on terms of what it is that you're going to do its best to have a plan in a plan matters essentially KPD box keeping the health box is a plan it's a plan for supplementation that will make a difference for you healthy no wasting money no guesswork this is your baseline to start with some that's funny because yesterday I became friends with somebody is pretty cool he is the owner of Soto weight loss Lesotho San Pablo state-of-the-art state-of-the-art that's right yes I just just happen to be sitting next to Mark Doyle who is the CEO state-of-the-art set out to Hannegan the answer we discussed the talking and over time outrun to you and I was just thinking my gosh with the way that you're helping your people and you given them a roadmap to lose weight and were not sponsored by them or that you just a super nice guy and I've looked at his website I'm impressed anybody who's out there trying to help the general public with her health and one ways certainly weight loss and helping them achieve that yeah you had that in a subscription box you got yourself a bad acetyl package yeah so if you're doing any type of weight loss or anything like that check out outfront he'll check out our subscript and boxer KB MD box and make it although but easier make it happen little quicker we'll the polyphenols I was going to mark this yesterday that polyphenols are a fasting mimetic molecule right other words appear in ketosis or if your fasting to intermittent fasting it actually augments that and you can listen to Melanie Avalon podcast that I did with her legal way into that but so cool that you ran into him so in the end it's been a while since I've looked at what does soda has but it's it's it's it's essentially a proven roadmap two and functional ketogenic diet right that can help explain its personally never heard about it I did know what it was I would actually like that I think I've seen this before just a really nice guy would just sit there talking we start talking that's a cool deacon out a little bit a man and then he's staying up his account UA grandpa belly knees like 10,000 that we can work on that guy well and enough of the pitches so get started how was the house that lasted two weeks been and what's been going on in document household while so Dr. Brown household as we rounded out the summer school started boo-boo but the today I believe that for Carla yeah so so school starting today that summer was a thick thick summer of tennis Lloyd out basically was traveling everywhere around the country taken one or the other child Lucas or Carl around and it last week for the why was little over seven days I took Carla to Alpharetta Georgia for the 12s of hardcourt national championships and little life lesson there she was doing remarkably good and she lost first round to the seated person but then figure it out and then just started doing great one a couple really tough matches was doing playing fantastic will back to the hotel also caught up in tennis and then I got a reminder from American Airlines check into your flight tomorrow hello oh this happen that quickly been there since like Friday and it was Wednesday and I went I didn't anticipate being that long so that I had to sit have a heart-to-heart with my daughter unlike your kicking ass boy somebody getting to work to pay for this yeah so I had to simply go I'm so sorry and then we were trying to figure out that she could play one more match and it was just really difficult and then beautiful loop the cool thing about traveling were all packed up and then Caroline's just sent your flights were canceled though no cancel now the reason why it's a big deals because as you know you and I showed up on that Friday and we had like 20 some patients that that needed the thick day yeah we need colonoscopies and endoscopy's and helping people is out of town and so your growth is panicky like you just canceled my flight and then you try to rebook but everybody on that flight strata resorts would like that was not available that was unavailable arrive at 1 AM start scoping so I would not be getting there so I went to my dual trust to go to which is Southwest right so in the series of events is digressive recited the series of events were Carl and I went we went had breakfast came back with pack every thing up and I'm doing the whole was my phone thing couldn't find my phone oh my computer and zero it the computer says the phone was last years there and I like walking around trying to find it and I have a Google pixel so maybe the iPhones better at find my phone but it was and I found it in the parking lot South kind of panic and run over no I know so find phone come up 10 minutes later American Airlines canceled my flight so Marty kind of worked up here on the matter happens sure so I go through this like we do call him and I really have to get back I can't risk that flights would like it to leg flight to get me back it's all arriving at 1 AM so than those available might benefit just cancel despite that easy anyone 053 canceled even I'm not to build make it back to do my job so get on Southwest I book a one-way ticket for both of us to get back okay sounds good we get through doing to the Atlanta airport pull up to the counter guy was really cool but it was a slight your checking a bit early and now it's only like hour and 1/2 is like no this flight is for tomorrow in my haste I booked the flight for the next day Carla looks at me and the guy was so cool beautiful €20 he's a hoot and he was was your father flipping out today and she was really stressed and goes well and let you take it easy… Put you on the appropriate flight so that's why Kennewick goes but I have one question for you sir just as I why did you ever book with American in the first thought that was pretty cool so that was our that was our travels I was meeting Carla now Lucas Lucas was a beast he went to Kalamazoo which is that it's called gnats at the zoo is a very prestigious term it writes the hardware championships did a pretty good in singles he lost the tough indoor match but doubles him and his partner Aiden Tim they made it to the finals and they did a live stream of that they had commentators and everything there is why such big deals because the winner of that it's an automatic invite to the junior US open in New York he wanted it said Flushing Meadow he wanted so bad unfortunately they did not win it but I am proud that he at least the finalists they were the youngest kids are both 14 playing and you know you can play up till the day you turned 17 so Moses kids a little older and great so super happy about that and no that's a strong family as far as me I think I told you I listen to a podcast Goldmine pump right kind of a fun one at that its 3X bodybuilders/trainers in there they're pretty realistic and kinda neat and I downloaded their own mark at the Idella one of the work of at these different workouts called maps this maps that not a lit map stand for both buying whatever I did the map strong which is they have the strong man you're doing strongmen techniques to really work some different muscles right you know how it is you just getting these routines were you talk about a roadmap on how to do dieting ointment sometimes just have a roadmap you show up and that's what people love CrossFit because there never work out right therefore and I'm doing these workouts but in the heavies videos of forget what the guys name but he's an actual strongman doing front squats with 315#oh my gosh I'm almost there but yeah so anyways I'm in each of those guys a little shout out and tell them one little piece of advice that really makes their workouts stand out way more that way more I think you should start the work out in either go out and buy shirts a size smaller or do what I did with this thing and wash it in hot water because I feel like I'm getting bigger but the reality is just went tighter so that should be part of the protocol berries that's what's going on with me now is you had a really cool week with what would you do we the boys and Marie and I have always almost always vacationed where we do an outdoor adventure of some kind almost never leave town to go stand in a nice hotel or as Mac but it can we just have a vacation where we don't have to get up and start hiking and so Marine I decided to take the boys and in each of them took a friend and we went in Costa Rica's were raised in a NAI nice hotel in Tamarindo and it was right on the beach and honestly we just got in lots of days of surfing drinking great coffee eating incredible local food we did a catamaran tour which show Robert Drysdale the fighter former MMA now jujitsu master haven't heard that name in a long time he was on he was on the catamaran with its and he seemed I really did talk to me just seemed like a super cool dude and that means beautiful wheat we all went snorkeling saw some cool stuff did a oh yeah is a little guy abatement 64 GCA sees not small at all and but we did that did a ATV tour to the dry jungle saw a lot of monkeys solve three humpback whales made it was really lazy and ATV tooth is jungle that is awesome yeah it is it was I guided so they took us up and is really really cool and I mean very relaxing lot your phone doesn't work and a lot of these spaces so yeah it was it was a nice escape and ironically we flew Southwest down to Costa Rica seamless no problems no cancel flight so I'm a big fan of the old Southwest at sublessee will sponsor get we use the word love in our in our love meant to me.com where you so but they know you it was great in the now we've returned our boys that started back to school yesterday had a great day at school yesterday they both are excited date for the most part they actually keep up with their friends at that the summer because they both shoot hoops with with most of their friends they see them but to no great week and 1/2 for vacation yeah sometimes realize you don't get enough time with your family it that was awesome let me ask you some serving questions were you able to try different boards were able to know try and do so once you figured out you get up what did you find to be the easier board well it's funny that I think about a 7 foot foam board for an adult male seems to be the beginner style board but you don't tell him to stay there when you get confident of where you place your feet you can you can really cannot play around a lot and so there happened to be someone renting boards right by our hotel and he had everything we had one it was about a 8 foot board for a kid who came along with us Max buddy who's already 63 I think and it basically looked like a I like a closet door it was just gigantic and it was a little difficult to get up on but once you're up you can't tell he can't fall now and as so that that was a cool board but you the bigger the board the harder to cut right okay they had dad they had some other smaller boards around 6 1/2 maybe 6 foot long and and they varied in material but then the guy and his name is Delbert and Delbert you want to show you probably not you bet Anita but we we used when his cutting boards and strict board so it was about 4 feet long and while that was a half-hour yucky seem to climb and so anyway vertical surface held it to Costa Rica was beautiful dear will learn how to surf you are doing a great environment the waves coming nice and slow the Pacific waters down on Central America are not cold is beautiful that's awesome that's way better what else they can write while you were down there I turned into the euro on Apple TV the red bull channel were they did the big wave challenge like down in Peru was now knocking it was not as that is the first half-hour episode of a 20 to get check project we've got actually some really cool stuff doesn't Monday yeah this is as immigration we still got to Dr. Brown's corner to talk about our clinic review and then we've got some really cool stuff for you to possibly defeat sleep apnea and find new ways of consuming CBD place right the only bit why have thousands of aspiring authors teamed up with Christian faith publishing to publish their blog because Christian faith publishing is an author friendly publisher who understands that your labor is more than just a book we provide authors freedom and flexibility throughout the publishing process professional book editing award-winning design and some of the highest royalty structures in the publishing industry and is always you will retain 100% of the rights to your book I was looking to find a company that I could trust one that assisted in the editing process completely Christian trade publishing will publish market and sell your books in all major bookstores and online booksellers as well especially Christian bookstores call for your free author submission kit 800-978-4812 800-978-4812 800-978-4812 that's 800-978-4812 FastTrack student loans can get your student loans out of the vault stop any wage garnishments stop collection calls and stop seizure of your tax refund give yourself a break to stop the stress and get your student loan payments down to as little as $25 a month based on what you can afford to pay 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 now you can fly anywhere in the world and paid discount prices on your airline tickets flight to date alignment for harassment to read or anywhere else you want to go and pay a lot less guarantee quality international travel department right now low-cost airlines 800-452-1075 800-452-1075 that's 800-452-1075 all right we are now back in the second half hour episode number 20 L get check project just about to touch on Dr. Ken Brown's clinic corner and just a quick call back if you ever want to get yourself your hands on some nice polyphenols which are NSF certified the only ones indicated for bloating and abdominal discomfort love my Tammy.com/spooning as love my tummy.com/miniature daily polyphenols we can talk little bit about why it matters to reduce that kind of inflammatory stuff absolutely by the way so one of the other things we really love talk about is CBD cannabidiol KB MD CBD today were to be having cooking with KPMG CBD our own little segment of the new of that nothing to show that a new segment to the show cooking with CBD were to do that but one of the things we love to do the signature protection package the reason why we put the two together because the polyphenols in trying to actually help you essentially produce more of your own and dodges in the cannabinoids by blocking enzymes that break it down so when you do CBD plus upfront to actually work synergistically it's like one plus one equals four that's a people to think about that's why I was put together that's where all my patients that both ice small side note to just a reminder that I was just talking with the Anthony at arch until headquarters and we are confirmed so we have lots of dietitians I want to show we have on feedback from dietitians and nutritionists fancy the nutrition conference at the end of October arch on teal for the first time ever will be making an appearance and it's in Philadelphia at the end of October this year as we sell yet so it's up to cool deal to write to you doing such a chemical city like I'm actually probably really never ever been there I did give a lecture there for the American culture yes virology does cool five but I was at the Philadelphia brotherly love you or if you go to the Eagles game just brotherly shove yeah little little piece of advice you know they'll have everyone has their favorite cheese Philly cheese steak place a Member with the two major ones are but there's like to churn major ones don't do it I didn't go did you free it doesn't work well in Philly may need you just gotta stop like everybody lined like or dislike about you bro Crichton Philly cheese steak. The reference I say whatever I do it I was the Jack-in-the-Box commercial Jack walks up to the to the new guy is like junk I need you to fill you learn about every mobility cheese statements and six months later could lead with a mullet yellow check all soaked up Philly like a sponge yeah I don't think it's really quite that kind of you to come back with a mullet hello and I hope so let's get down to the clinical work as we get some really cool stuff here and get some cool tie-ins to lead into what we got the rest show yeah so one of things before we get into our you know we always try to do some sort of deep dive into an article but before that a couple to third or two things just popped up in the news yesterday actually really cool salesforce founder the company sales force will have a huge yet and CEO Mark Ben New York Benioff began I owe FFD data saving been with Mark and now Mark market his wife Lynn there to donate $35 million specific to understanding the field of the human microbiota that's a lot of money so cool specifically they want the money to be used to look at asthma inflammatory bowel disease"" other elements of systemic disease from the cell stomach disease from the bowel manipulative microbiology and what they could do there to give the gift it's to be split between University California San Francisco and Stanford University Did that in mind and your quote from them is with a deeper understanding of the human micro biome our generation can unlock new treatments that impact lives around the world so we always taught Michael Banuelos about feeding the micro biome and how important it is to eat for it I was joke around if you see a pregnant woman interceding for two we need to be eating for hundred trillion right and that's what they're getting into they believe or basically he believes wise donating 35 million that were a watershed moment in human biology and our health rests not only on the proper functioning of our own genes but also on the genes and the products of our micro bio yeah so what you feed your micro biome in the products meeting post biotics review that term before this prebiotic switchyard under adjustable fibers there's probiotics which we know are just alive or the supposed be like bacteria and if you if you listen to our episode with Carolyn Krishnan we get into that we discussed the pros and cons of probiotics how the manufactured housing delivered how the delivered actually how probably what 99% of them are being destroyed around it alive and everything so go ahead look at that whatever episode that was a few episodes back but it's what we really get into that it's really cool so I love how they said that not only are human genes but also the genes and products or micro bio same day Stanford discusses a study so this got published I love the fact that they don't need the money I don't know if I knew that Stamper was republishing this or not but they discovered thousands of novel proteins produced by the human microbiologist was just published in the journal cell we always talk about post-biotics like molecules like-year-old Lifton right which you know of someone like Rhonda Patrick always talked about your Lutheran creating autophagy meaning that your aging and dying cells or my tough duty your aging and dying mitochondria actually go away will these guys figure something out that's really cool they used very specific techniques and they determined that there are thousands of previously undiscovered small proteins being produced by bacteria in the human micro micro bio these are all newly described proteins they serve an unknown function but what's really wild is it's a brand-new frontier it fits in exactly what Karen was talking about do you remember when he said we need to explore based biotic did it send signals to kill other bacteria about virulent and when we asked him or like what are the signals that will relearning that I think it's these small proteins guess what they are there sequences of amino acids anywhere between smaller than 50 amino acids wow that's a peptide that is a peptide member how we talk about BPC 157 yeah and what were to have Taylor compounding CEO on I been talking to him a little bit and is really excited with Vince exchanging emails but peptide therapy this is exactly what that is what what Stanford is saying is that our own bacteria are producing peptides that work on a local and possibly systemic level here's what's fascinating once they figured out how to find it they discovered immediately there were hoping to discover a few hundred over 4500 different protein peptide sequences being produced by different bacteria leading to different cellular responses so when we talk about how complex the micro biome is and how important it is to feed what it needs this is a whole new frontier so I was getting so excited and geek out will always want what will I was reading this and the return to how small proteins can be synthesized rapidly and can be used by bacteria as biological switches to toggle between functional states or to trigger a specific reaction other cells of those it can happen that quick why was this is amazing and that went on to outlaw because the last sentence was which could be very exciting for new future drug developments it's clear that's the endgame of everything I but it's fascinating because if you can get to the point where you eat a proper diet and have a systematic approach you could be using your bacteria to produce these things to make you healthier but why wait why wait to get sick to take some drugs and hopefully they develop in the future why not feed your micro biome what it wants right now you know what it reminds me a story and tell me if this is not the right time to bring it up get it from interrupting that the clinic owner but give you her Ryan Carrigan please football okay let's get understand yeah so I just read a story on him I think it was early yesterday morning and written by a writer from ESPN to second Temple that and to think so heavens window yes it is okay so Ryan Carrigan the whatever it what they were remarking on was the fact that he has I think the forest most consecutive starts in the NFL but the crazy thing is is he place for a team which last year led the NFL and number of players on injured reserve's they were curious like wise this guy not being hurt when everyone around him is right yeah and so Jay Gruden is the coach they are member reading stories like but don't jinx it and when they went to bed so they they go in a interview with with Ryan in what he did when he was younger is he read a story about Drew breeze redrew recent gone out and gotten food allergy testing any thought you know what I want to find some foods and maybe I should be eating really did I think one of was milk and a few other small things I decided to begin to avoid it and then as he aged back in 2016 2017 if our member correctly he began to really dive deep into a regimented mapped out meal plan so for instance his diet and there is now every day starts with two chicken breasts 1 cup of oats and diseases breakfast you what did in season and and during training camp every day starts at two chicken breast 1 cup of oats a tablespoon of flaxseed's Chia seeds plus raspberries blueberries and half of an avocado then for dinner and lunch it's heavy on freight on fish protein and vegetables red meat at least once a week and that's it let's go right on that breakfast will quit sure that is a great way to start your day yet so we've got the chicken breast which obviously proteins and have the protein would you need that is a building block to amino acids get broken down at that yeah little bit of fat let's bring it to get that right there right avocado we know that ever since we went to this low-fat diet we just become sicker that is not bad note and an avocado advocate that what that does bring in there is good fat so that you can produce your testosterone through the cholesterol and you can produce other things like and a cannabinoid site so you need the fat to do that other stuff Chia seeds in the raspberries and blueberries of the raspberry blueberry that's all poly polyphenols the Chia seeds are all three prebiotic things to feed the to feed your back. Not yet the polyphenols and the Chia seeds as a vehicle to go down there Ludwig is missing is a spore based biotic and he could kick it up and not by adding little upfront to his amazing so they they they now are looking at his diet and how he's avoided injury easy defensive lineman he makes contact every single play it's not like he's playing safety and only having to dive over one set every three plays or cover know he's he's head-to-head he's he's in combat for every place on the field and he started 120 consecutive games never been on IR injuries that is a topic that you know we bring up occasionally Junior Bryant is a good friend and he's let you know he played defensive line for the census go 49ers for years and when I talked to him about what his what the diet regiment they didn't focus on that fact that now that yeah do they just had he said I'll do that we just have Wonder Bread out and they just didn't know right now we realize that the nutrition is probably most importantly we know another really key aspect of what he does beyond the recoveries big foam roller he's big into doing ice baths after eel hard workouts and things like that all things system down inflammation right everything is to block information but something that he does as a preventative is he never wants to be now hydrated he always wants to have enough hydration so that granted this volume seemed large to me the probably for a guy of his size of things like 290 pounds probably isn't as much since he's active but he drinks 300 ounces of water per day which is 1520 ounce bottles is a lot so a gallon is hundred 20 8 PM as long water I don't think I need quite that much water but it is critically important that you do remain hydrated and you'll function better your body will function better the communication even the post biotic communication happens within your body becomes more efficient with enough hydration and I think we are chronically dehydrated if you look at people when we talk about health sitting is bad for your health we always people who were we read a patient yesterday describing what it's like to live in San Francisco and how people cannot afford to live in the city all my gosh I commute two hours two hours away four out five our five day work week is 20 hours in the car 20 hours in the car now think how much that time look at how bad it is for you number one just the stress of driving number two you're sitting where I feel that sitting for prolonged periods is very bad for you and you just brought up hydration how many people purposely don't hydrate so they don't have to pull over and use the restroom yeah like I will have to be yeah other than that woman who is the astronaut who wore the diaper she she was a trooper yet. She just strapped him to drive in my psychotic probably will after a guy favorite stories ever just a refresher woman chasing man leaves Houston drives to Florida wearing diapers and she has the pullover yeah that would that would be in such an awkward like you like okay what Cheryl what's up why are you wearing a diaper drove all the way over here didn't stop yeah I'm sure you understand the total love boot I think this is gonna work this is gonna work like your tender profile this is wearing that diaper tender profile I don't think that's something you should wear but anyway I'd love to thank you were talking about feeding the microbiota because really when you break down what they're not even referencing that in here but what that this is he's doing he's feeding his micro bomb and it's making what we think is making in health the only thing that I would've loved to see so do I were all about life tax article that I did not the print but I will talk about at some point they showed that vibration plates increase the microbial diversity for the first time ever researchers have shown that sanding on a total body vibration plate as you know kind of into that Asherah into the infrared sauna and the vibration plate something like that and now what would you do next my wife will just absolutely not be able to tolerate potential come out to the garage and I'll be there in the sauna will be on the vibration plate known she just to drive her nuts what she's in the seat next from now on is just to be weird to be doing first cool yeah so so like that's another thing like I would love to grab him have some like that go to you doing a lot that's awesome but is really doing that probably fills up as David might imagine that a little infrared sauna little vibration plate adding note that little extra polyphenols right and you can really you know just continue to kick it up a notch or you can turn into Ben Greenfield were that's pretty much all you do is try to bile hack your life at all times oh tell that story to click about Ted being Greenville because I number one I'm a big fan of him in the fact that he experiments on himself if you will be in Greenfields a great podcast the guy digs deep but the cool thing about then it is honest well so I did not hear Ben say this but one of my sons tennis coaches Anderson is a huge Ben Greenfield fan I and he listens to all his podcasts and he is also really big tennis coach that was big in the Spartan race and yeah so he likes to travel so he purposely went to Colorado because Ben Greenfield was going to do us part racing usually go there a lot of people were good despite race with them and apparently he was a professional bow hunting get the details wrong this is coming from somebody else but it makes sense knowing then and knowing his personality this makes total sense he apparently was on a pretzel bow hunting thing in Colorado and made his own water purification system that he thought would be perfect but he ended up getting Giardia and so had to pull out of the race to fill you told all his friends like that.Giardia couldn't do it sorry thought my filter would work turns out love that also yet I was to find out if that's reportedly hooking up with his CEO and Utah here if you reach him now Angelo have laughed and lamented about what happened so that you know that's and that's a thing Angel said adjustment bends always bet that is not a persona like you and I would patients go your time like this only unfortunately there's no off switch sorry about that good man that is awesome well now I like how all this stuff ties together because what were doing I think is creating a roadmap main and we talked about a roadmap healthcare BD health box and we talked about arch until multiple times over just reinforcing the fact that you can protect your health by making sensible choices my kids don't like it they think that I'm a Nazi when it comes to sugar and what they should be having and sometimes you have to relent a little bit I did need to sway going up but eventually you'll you can hear Crossroads and you'll end up benefiting from simply deceiving better you know it's if you come to my hospital go to the doctor's lounge oh career in word it hurts cringe worthy jars of M&Ms like like those big like Katie does report the lid off reacher handed tonight but I don't go to hospital Holland anymore but it is it is pretty funny to watch that where you like my gosh this is just having that you can get all the sodas you want it's all free for the doctors you want when there's cookies and cracker of the just of jelly bears and everything course beyond the sugar it just seems like that is just a MR essay VRE vancomycin-resistant Enterra caucus just select oh my goodness but that's all there and I remember reading a study where bad I want to say it's UC San Francisco Rhonda Patrick had had a PhD on talk about telomeres which are your chromosomes was a triangular your life like they banned so that yeah they banned soda and as it turned out the employees lost weight improve their hemoglobin A1c like across the board without even trying just getting Minnesota just soda and doesn't include any other sugary snacks our member that story and it was fascinating but not even surprising measures the inflammatory issue that you don't wheat we did the one study that we talked about where they gave mice the equivalent of one soda a day of high fructose corn syrup and there there were genetically predisposed mice to have polyps but they had like 80% increase in polyps and colon cancer and the only variable was the hyper just corn syrup from the equivalent of one Canaday and it's and it's unfortunate that you know I I was in that rut several years ago I just I fell into drinking Cokes and then laugh I walked away from and I still miss it but it's hard to get away from because you have a dopaminergic response yeah you have all that you money on it I'm trying to especially since a marked oil from soda so the impact I got a little extra weight my belly he did the whole picture. You know that's a great marketing technique I am saying that I read it but so I and I'm trying to get away from someone of the things that after listener that Adam Conover deal not uncommon I come home from work it's almost habit have a little dry form online or do anything like that even make a cocktail just a candidate you know that was just you to students, rhythm of doing that I'm like okay were to break that so it's I'm now in like a month of the Lord three weeks of not even having like a glass of wine with dinner which is you know something that kinda did for a lot of notes from the European theater knew my most wanted to know whatever my dad's German and so on corruption the carbonated sodas specifically bubbly now we have.Stu Ackerman I my partner got to get very in-depth intellectual conversation about bubbly flake letter like this one called Waterloo he sent me a picture of it which is funny because we are talking where it just the act of cracking it open sit marriage refreshing and when I was in Alpharetta Georgia with Carla no it's really hot him outside all day she was just laugh at me because I was just just going through cans and can't he just realize it's almost a rhythmic thing to hold something you and I've done that we've gone on business retreats yeah where we were we were one of the mind shares I was doing club soda like you are you just had like 12 club soda note is like I just think you just super hydrated like you say a word you think so are you writing about thank goodness over my diapers wouldn't have a conversation with anyone that's looking to be like you Kayla Mike yeah yeah long I'm good I prepared myself to Jeff to get a quick note to about this sleep apnea stuff do we want to take my before that the break you know what will do I'll tell you the story of the article okay and then were to do some life packs it out on top of the hour go endeavored to get into the KPMG trucking was CBD's pony show that's easier to be a chef today, walk you through a recipe I can't wait I think it's gonna be fun so I came across this super cool thing that the basically I got a news alert that set a five minute workout can lower the risk of a heart attack and increase your sports performance and improve clear thinking I'm in Oregon five and it worked out no lifting weights no cardio and as it turns out it's a very old technique that is just to resurface because somebody decided to do another trial this is the cool stuff that were talking about where there are so many things we can do that maybe have gotten forgotten listen to our photo by modulation podcast to understand that there is data on stuff and you don't know anything about much like the psilocybin research much like a lot of stuff this is one of these things it's so interesting this was an article that looked at inspiratory muscle strength training camp it was developed in the 1980s to improve respiratory muscles in people with lung diseases like bronchitis asthma and emphysema basically inspiratory muscle strength training is strength training for the muscles that you breathe with okay three talking intercostal traps nominate all the accessories as well correct so as it turns out it's all the accessories including your throat muscles okay so in 2016 they found that when you took people and you did destroy muscle strength training that 30 inhalations a day had significant improvement in obstructive sleep apnea which got me to read the rest of the article which was about sleep apnea but then I started thinking about different ways to hack sleep apnea okay so this particular article what they did is they looked at middle-aged in older adults age 50 to 79 with above normal blood pressure systolic blood pressure so there were recruiting hypertensive people They were randomly assigned to perform six weeks of 30 breast a day six days a week 30 breasts that's it and you'd be the Duchenne trial or you got this particular device which is an inspiratory muscle strength training device K which coincidentally I ordered from Amazon today okay so what they looked at is motor in cognitive function was measured at baseline and postintervention with this different cognitive toolbox that I use they looked at a battery of tests and some other standardized measures including significant very aggressive blood pressure monitoring what they showed is that neither treatment altered body weight so wasn't exercising the way that you think what would do this to lose weight sure they did not change the body composition but what they did shows there was a significant reduction in systolic blood pressure with an average of greater than 10 points so if you're walking around at let's say 150 you dropped to 140 you went from hypertensive to pre-hypertensive I just by breeding just by coming into the sky now what is really interesting is that they also show that cognition improved significantly they did memory test some people their cognition improved now what they did not discuss was the effect it is this related to the sleep apnea effect and getting better sleep so the article didn't get into just discussed we lowered blood pressure and their smarter and by the way in the background in 2016 they did prove this work. For obstructive sleep apnea okay so is it the obstructive sleep apnea crating the lower blood pressure in the improvement of cognition or is it just the breathing who cares right is a ship doesn't matter were talking about a non-pharmaceutical way to lower your blood pressure sleep better and improve your memory right I mean like if I gave you a bottle of that you go yeah like five birds one stone it's like five birds one stonefaced weight and cost nothing do Chuck Norris can even kill five stones with one bird but yeah I think that it's okay so anyways the data suggests that this inspiratory muscle strength improving the speed and episodic memory lowers blood pressure and it may be related to possibly sleep I don't know so that's my question so with a minute left on a plant a seed on you I did a show called superhuman radio with Carl Lenora Noriega and we got he's funny because he'll just go off on tangents and we get into a tangent where he said he cured his sleep apnea by doing throat exercises okay using an instrument were they get into that at the top of the hour like like a metal instrument or a musical instrument you know what you get into it it might be a kazoo I don't know basically what to look into this and then I looked at this and I want to tell you while you're practicing the instrument oh some science behind it so that you just realize I'm not to try to make you look silly now you know I'm sure I'll dig right at the top of the hour you're gonna work even though you don't snore more to at least improve your memory okay by doing inspiratory techniques the way that this particular study was done for the in-store thing is it's like sucking through a really hard resistant so this is different this specifically the instrument that were to do with going to strengthen the posterior hypo pharynx so that people like me that snort it'll tighten those muscles like some natural positive pressure be exact exactly so 10 seconds left 10 seconds will basically that's going to be the first hour of the catching project really back in second hour with cooking with Katie MD CVD as well as how can we learn about this mystery instrument to stop OSA this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun clear spoony with our Townhall.com, whiplash on Wall Street stock market with troubled yesterday on recession fears bouncing back this morning with the key average is trading higher and volatility remains watchword on Wall Street Americans went shopping in July Commerce Department says retail sales rose a healthy 0.7% last month following a 0.3% gain in June online retailers grocery stores clothing retailers in electronics and appliance stores all reported strong gains July's figures assign the concerns over slower global growth of Royal financial markets haven't dampened consumer confidence correspondent Jeremy house president from about to take his reelection campaign New Hampshire the president will hold a political rally in Manchester this evening hoping to energize his supporters as Democrats battle in the early primary voting state tonight's rally comes with financial markets in turmoil and concerns about unrest in Hong Kong Mr. Trump is typically use these rallies to tout his administration's accomplishments as well as comment on the news of the day Greg Claxton the White House and lasted almost 8 hours a standoff in Philadelphia saw 1/2 dozen police officers shot and wounded for the 36-year-old suspect gave up Philadelphia police Commissioner Richard Ross thankfully officers wounds were not life-threatening six police officers shot one incident is nothing short of astounding that such a confined space that we have more of a tragedy all of the officers now out of the hospital was sent off again as police tried to serve a narcotics warrant suspect said by authorities have a lengthy criminal record and looking at Wall Street right now the Dow is up about 103 point see S&P 14 points higher and the NASDAQ 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code spooning for your natural polyphenols and all the benefits come along with it feeding your micro biomes in the last half-hour the fascinating proteins are produced by bacteria of the beneficial genome that we have within us the happiness is endless microbiota so we left this last half hour and I'm now curious I've learned that I'm going to put on the spot anything on the spot to do something and it's going to be to cure my sleep at me that I don't have by the way but I'm going to take care of it and you said that I'm going to show how to do it while you explain what were doing correct so we talked last half-hour about this inventory muscle of benefit of breathing to that little thing where you can actually decrease systolic blood pressure that I thought an article inspired by Carl and or superhuman radio about from the British medical Journal to assess the effects of playing the didgeridoo Long daytime sleepiness another outcome related to sleep by reducing collapse ability of the upper airways in patients with moderate obstructive sleep apnea okay so straight out Australia from the it's an aboriginal instrument right yeah so my neighbors Australian I've never played Lloyd a was complaining about me snoring is why would I want to do that is Australia snow was didgeridoo at your neighbor Paul Hogan so of course him and I went around my yard while you that and we had yeah we we we grabbed a branch and we refashioned traditional didgeridoo guide to brand yeah and so what what you do is you carve out the middle of it termites Doolittle that now you know I am what you will notice as these are this is his family crest from my and my neighbor we have yes Hogan I can see yes yes right there so the salamander at that point so I would have you do is I will tell you about the rest of the story and you're going to hold this and learn it because we can have you play the didgeridoo learn learn it yesterday we are taught that sin but let me tell you why it's so important so the this is a randomized placebo-controlled trial which is really funny because I don't know how you do a placebo verse of the didgeridoo were somebody holding something like this and the other guys holding a kazoo or set together banks and obstruct and adjust but so there was a randomized controlled trial were they looked at 25 patients a greater than age 18 with no apnea and hypoxia did also complained about snoring and so this is kind of funny here and so participants in the didgeridoo group practice an average of 5.9 days a week for 25 minutes so you can do 25 inspirations to decrease your blood pressure okay then you bust out your didgeridoo and your practice for 25 minutes and then they compared that with the control group in the de jure group daytime sleepiness significantly improved they did sleep study and apnea hypoxia significantly improved and most important there was a significant improvement in partner complaints about snoring disturbances of throw everything else out vessel and the matters that so if you play 25 minutes the didgeridoo so I was kinda shocked that Carl Lenore was exactly right he was able to fix his obstructive sleep apnea because he played the didgeridoo as a method methodologic response to improve OSA so just where talk about the football player when he does all these regimented past I have obstructive sleep apnea that's what you're holding this that's why me and my neighbor works so hard to craft and out so that I would have one of those what's fascinating is in a self-reported effect of the quality of sleep they did not notice a difference say that again daytime sleepiness improved hypoxia improved the spouse felt no significant difference but the self perception of better sleep didn't take place which is why so many people with apnea don't realize they have apnea okay even though clinically you're getting better right subject would be your like my went to bed I woke up that is interesting but they at least recorded they were more lively or more awake during the day they recorded more lively more weight less spousal complaints and they showed in a hypoxia thing overnight that improved by yeah now that's pretty awesome so even when you think you're sleeping unfortunately many people just simply aren't so the combined analysis of sleep-related outcome should I moderate to very large effect of didgeridoo playing the conclusion is regular didgeridoo playing is an effective treatment alternative well accepted by patients with moderate obstructive sleep apnea so that I started get more into it and I realize that there's multiple studies on this and in fact they did a feasibility study with the VA population with those that have known sleep apnea so they took this cohort of people that are in the VA and that the using resources for their obstructive sleep apnea on the today if you were given a didgeridoo what would be the likelihood that you would at least try and do this for your charges about me and I had like a two third response for this again we want to go ahead and try to so there were try to see if this be feasible to proceed with a large study so they emailed like 300 or the mail 344 surveys so exciting that like 67% of the people expressed interest that they would consider doing something like this so how do you play the so babble I don't know it looks like a wide birthed woodwind instrument and I would imagine it would be similar to a brass instrument and only you can see on the camera on and try point right there you can come see Ellie down it's a big hole this looks like it's the mouthpiece I'm assuming it's more narrow than the big one right so I would give you a six step practice of mastering oh mastering mastering what outbursts were skipping straight at past novice like in three minutes okay I am going to have you actually try to think what song I could get you to play in the did you know yeah I mean anything by the Eagles I'm sure a lot of function is 80 take Seattle chaotic cake yeah they all of those bands often featured injury do I mean most you know I read this note back in the day when via trauma do find the music they all started out as didgeridoo and then they would build that then it would convert to guitar converted to percussion and everything that was that lady said that that that 50 stand on the didgeridoo I know I was still I was really depressed off that Bohemian Rhapsody I mean that's how they started with didgeridoo they can show that Freddie Mercury getting to seem his overbite prevented him from playing I know I know all of that is true so this thing here is that you have to do something else circular breathing okay okay so circular breathing is something work in I apparently and most what instruments I don't know this but the didgeridoo it's centuries it's essential for didgeridoo play maintaining pressure out of the mouth while inspiring to the notes trying 100% you nailed it right there so this is accomplished by storing air in the mouth inflating of the cheeks must be style okay and using this reservoir of air to SP inhale through the nose while air is still coming out of the mouth circular breathing is key to didgeridoo playing because it allows for continuous drones remain unbroken so I believe that if the circular breathing that forces your posterior pharynx to tighten up even you don't really have to play the didgeridoo is good is Freddie Mercury couldn't before he to Bohemian Rhapsody cry but what you can do is race master the circular breathing and then once you get to do that you need to breathe through your nose with inflated sheets I did find a website that described practicing this in the shower where you trying to spit water out while you breathe through your nose that trained you on the exact motion to do it to fill your mouth up with water in your spirit just like a little stream of water wall your breathing through your nose and that is actually circular breathing okay it's I got some YouTube things were I saw some of some different people doing and they can maintain a tone for like minutes just sound like one continuous breath it's really cool so what you can do is you can help your nose exhale through your mouth with inflated sheets now as you inhale to the nose while squeezing the air out of your mouth the way to make that sound is to start out with a like you'd like the yoga breathing were they just do like I love you ever done yoga with a talk about that we do that you should hear the the the guttural throat sound okay they start with that but then to actually make the sound you do the light flickering of the lips like in a brass instrument pension really tight this is opposite… Yeah but it's not person just okay I'm not regular that but just slap your lips the menu and then you try that so basically get on the didgeridoo start breathing, go grab something superquick to watch you play this is fine I'll be right back this doesn't feel audit all advance bids I sell I have been doing it for a long time so if you listen to podcasts this is this is my didgeridoo solo and circular breathing is escaping me I don't believe that I'm lamented I'm not an instructor yet by any stretch I hate the fact that they can ran away there's really no want to talk over it can you hear me breathing but not really effectively done more gas to supply what you visualize this as you've seen these I talk about all the little life because I just know anymore yet so I so I mean this is it's not will be very fun because I think at some point will actually put up with the snoring as opposed to this ridiculous death sound but I can't figure that I will incorporate my didgeridoo practice while I'm in my infrared sauna okay so I will be sitting in the relaxed sauna with my head sticking out just this going on where I'm I'm in the garage trying to do the didgeridoo goes Brown that's so hard to do circular brew that sounds much better than my you are you got the that that the low vibration gas is real learn is that Dr. Brown is family from Argentina Germany and apparently Australia so there is a little thank my neighborhoods it was Paul Hogan exactly what is also Nick Dendy so if you actually do have instructions about it this is no joke were coming to follow this but I am I'm really get a practices in trying to do this so that I can because my snoring happens because of redundant or lacks tissue back there which that's what they do the uvula plastids on so the alternatives larger have you have a sleep apnea machine but this would be really awesome and then you know I do know once I get really good at it put an ad on Craigslist didgeridoo player for bar mitzvahs weddings whatever you do high demand yeah yeah everywhere you know if you could spurn an entire generation of people that are preventing sleep at me about playing his name is may become far more popular this could be really cool tell me if tell if this sounds like the cake song he's going the distance okay 12 writing at the starting line is getting ready I sing the rest of shallots okay let's let's go and try to dentures bumping and raising time something flashes the sum go Bell's gloppy I really close honey I'm really close I am off by little picture just a little bit of the rhythm yet maybe Ron's we had like a metronome or something to get me back on beat unlimited that's what I think I let me look for one.so I tried to breathe runs over there try to spit water out wall wall breathing at the studio is a mess and very very wet so that is our light for obstructive sleep apnea hopefully as we continue in the show keeps going on that I just continue to get better so that someday I can actually show up and play this thing yeah what you just what were talking about sleep apnea there's lots of different things that occur that we talked about some of the easy to recognize benefits of getting your sleep apnea under control but one thing that's near and dear to me from handling so many cardiac anesthesia cases before you referenced multiple times in the podcast today that cortisol levels go up whenever you're under stress and in more than one study they been able to establish that cortisol high circulating cortisol leads to plaque deposits black deposits lead often time to CAD your coronary artery artery disease it's really no coincidence that often long-term sufferers of sleep apnea were it goes unaddressed in-depth unfortunately having coronary vessel problems and 100% I mean we were making fun of this but this is no joke sleep is so important that when you don't sleep well you set up a cascade of events that actually do that so if the coronary artery disease doesn't scare you enough the other a huge side effect that happens is actually erectile dysfunction because of poor vascular circulars after circulation without question so if don't do it for the snoring don't do it for the euro to keep responsibility for the coronary disease but it's hard it's very funny when you start talking about certain things that are very personal at least my patients will do this when it's weight gain balding erectile dysfunction they start to move to do something yeah yeah and and inventor they don't feel the corner disease happening and you don't want to be too late you don't want to always have to be in a rescue mode simply to be healthy it's funny that you mentioned the thing about the doctors lounge at at the hospital and just all of the things that aren't necessarily healthy unfortunately healthcare is just not in the business of wellness it's just that's just not the environment that therein and when you look at coronary vessel disease you're right it's a silent killer and unfortunately many times if you end up with triple vessel disease or something like that the by the time we find out it's often much and simply just too late and there's speaking of roadmaps of who is we referenced earlier beyond the box beyond eating for your your microbiota or having a great diet you can also create a roadmap for recovery before you ever have to get to that point so taking care of sleep apnea learning how to to faster intermittently fast even a they've been able to show thing is called long ago from the USC was able to show or demonstrate that fasting is one of the few ways to naturally break down plaques that exist in the yeah in your in your arteries correct that's huge I heard William Davis the author of wheat belly yet we don't have to wait Bell yet he's cardiologist recorded thrusters I remember one of the two and he actually had a several patients who had 90% blockage given the option of cabbage versus stent and also given the opposite the option of two fast three-month. He watched it go from 90% to a century wide open as a means it's amazing it's a cripple there's all these things we can we do it not everything needs a drug not everything need to drug your body wants you to be healthy your body want you to not have stress and when you're overstressed when you're under slept when you basically cannot manage what it is that your bacteria that are supposed to be in your body need to survive unfortunately is when things can spin out of control absolutely Girl Scout stress me out what's that next to that looks to me now I don't have any sisters but I do you recognize this from some young friends of mine needs easy bake oven that is an easy bake oven we have now entered the first portion of the KB MD CBD cooking show I can't wait yes so the easy bake oven I borrowed this for my daughter and now she's getting close 13 just use it a lot more but the back in the day 56 years old we rock that easy bake oven door busting out because were going to make some CBD dessert as I am right and I think you made some CVD stuff I did so I thought we would do right now is we can start mixing it up we can put it in the easy bake and I were to talk about the science of cooking CBD were to make Ron coming here in sample all the food that we make hazelnut yet so you keep talking per second you the ingredients to make my grandmother's CBD chocolate cake I love the fact that your grandmother had a recipe for CBD chocolate cake she was a pioneer she was you should've heard her play the didgeridoo so what did Dr. Brown is doing I believe is grabbing he did tell me that he was going to have some ingredients for me to mail yard has him yet he measured him that's good and valuable as so it looks to me like you have a ball we have an egg and we have coconut oil and and this is this is over this a vanilla milk extract OL extract and milk out to Kevin I got you okay magic ingredient pleasing yeah nice nice nice so and then on top of that we have what is this cactus Honey I see what we have here is I have a diet packed the ingredients for you and I wrote it all out just like a doctor yeah you did and legible here's what we have going on this you to be very much like the food network challenges yeah you been given a box of ingredients which include almond flour and egg now organic milk with vanilla extract cactus Honey that when was this one okay I anyhow and then has to be this and it is and in the iron Chef style is Brandon TBD Sadie Brenda JBM distributed I was in coconut oil so effectively right now you have four minutes okay to make your cake recipe and get it in the easy bake oven in time to be ready for the bottom of the last half hour okay I will but I think that we have here and I think the timers started the is listening started now you have any utensils having I guess I will get you utensils like I forgot to put those up that you go ahead keep focus is actually measured every thing else you don't really have to take much out just put it all in there all right yeah that's going answer were starting off here with the cactus Honey powder because I don't know what I'm doing but that's what I would start with about on my own and then we have next is the almond flour made from all organic almonds I'm certain because I know where he shops so it also is going in here this will be mixing bowl kcal great that I was like the way it smells and it also is healing in and thankfully Brown has premeasured everything which will cut down on lots of problems oh this looks like this is me being all organic egg and everything is all organic we are doing try to make this thing as healthy as possible as far as a Kate can go okay we've got the easy bake oven fired up ready for that oh you out here. Generous with the cocoa up what you like using coconut oil well it's a it's a great vehicle it's a good fat and handles high temperature without to becoming rancid and is lots of benefits to using coconuts and integrate their renewable source of the good fats and oils the Rios nausea like Alton Brown that's right just as Shepard has mentioned it is a good fat and as were coming down to three minutes of one other thing to note is that it does have medium chain triglycerides which are readily absorbed and go to the brain and increase and we all know that we need fats like this to improve our inner cannabinoid system embodies the whisker this point so old yes so a classic flaw using a plastic knife I'm a little bit worried that Eric Oakley this was he doing over there I was adding more CBD brilliant move absently brilliant decided to read it up and take CBD directly not just put it all in the take excellence of the whiskers there we are now down to two minutes to spend and send an come together nicely to easily mix so power at all what are things that we would like to see is a note Eric thank you for coming on the the first ever KB MD CBD cookoff they strapped me what we're doing I'm just what we will do is eventually is do a Bobby Flay CBD cookoff challenge okay and then we'll just movie over it like I said I do know one of the producers of the network were just a movie around all the shows chopped all that stuff I don't think that the way that I know my way around a kitchen about owning sharp instruments of its figure that yesterday that I should go and his old District just go ahead and put in there that you had put in the baking pan in order to get it into the easy big look at that we have ourselves a quick cake recipe fantastic if you're only listening you should go to the YouTube part at least for this part and you could see how beautiful gorgeous I can't wait to be delicious so dear dear agree that one of the hardest challenges when you're doing with his cookoff like this is actually the time or is it the fact of enforcing to do it with an easy bake oven really was you living on what is to come out well you let you know what he doesn't know he doesn't open the easy big so once again Eric does not have daughters does not have sisters and I think one of the one of the greatest lie did not envision this to be the biggest challenge as if it were witnessing this he's wasting precious time trying to figure out the easy bake oven oh my goodness he's he this is a wasted time but that's okay with you and help them out the fact that he has a no sisters or daughters he does not realize that it does not open you as you stated in one end and it comes out the I've never honestly every order you had put the sin we actually have the easy bake oven on high so hopefully we'll have this ready when we come back from commercial break here and then we will have Ron come in and try our various CBD food products or to talk about the science of CVD and what it does in cooking and hopefully get way more entered in the future all thanks to Brandon Brown from flower child that recommended we do this thank you Brandon will be back here the last half-hour here in just a moment be sure to like and share get check project see you soon got an old car you can donate it whether it's running or not to the United breast cancer foundation and save a life they'll even come and pick it up for free the United breast cancer foundation has saved hundreds of women's lives through their free or low-cost breast screening exams but now they need your help the United breast cancer foundation wants to save more lives through early detection by offering women free or low-cost breast screening exams and donating your old car SUV or truck whether it's running or not helps pay for them plus you get a charitable tax deduction help the United breast cancer foundation save lives by donating your old car SUV or truck call now for free pickup 800-245-0823 800-245-0823 800-245-0823 all right now that number again is 800-245-0823 fast-track student loans can get your student loans out of the vault stop any wage garnishments stop collection calls and stop seizure of your tax refund give yourself a break to stop the stress and get your student loan payments down to as little as $25 a month based on what you can afford to pay 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 now you can fly anywhere in the world and paid discount prices on your airline tickets flight today to Lundy's harassment to read or anywhere else you want to go and pay a lot less guarantee quality international travel department right now low-cost airlines 800-452-1075 800-452-1075 that's 800-452-1075 right on so that is an incredible feedback network is actually emailed me said you are the next Food Network star young enough to do that whole the whole minority learning how to cook metal part L work in easy bake oven any that stuff yeah yeah so we we get that cooking a quick let's talk about cooking CBD as it I try to find some stuff on this and as you can imagine there's lots of cookbooks out there but they all discuss using the cannabis it's not necessarily just CBD so there's a couple really cool things that that need to be taken into account no one of the problems is to figure this all out, or action, figure the exact temperatures and everything I try to find things like windows at the carboxylate at what temperature does it doesn't do what at what temperature because the other thing is when using a full-spectrum CBD knife so as I started getting into this it's not as easy as you think because we got lots of molecules like terpenes polyphenols flavonoids are all can have different melting temperatures different denaturant temperatures basically what I did find out on several different sites looking at this is that light is bad for CBD so this is how come you find most bottles which are to be colored you will find a clear bottle of funny clear bottle it's been sitting on the shelf a long time it can actually really affect CBD right so the most important thing if you ever been trying to work with CBD product is to find a really good high quality product person you need to do is look that the perfect cannabinoid product that you really like like a BMD health has a certificate of analysis we go to church all the boxes it's organic it is naturally it's naturally produced in source to one company so you know what you're getting and interestingly we did talk about this but since it is a fat soluble cooking with fats is actually good thanks the coconut oil to add to that a little bit so that you can do this now as far as controlled temperature several different sites were discussing different things I couldn't find anything in Google scholar and pub med I'm really trying find this I do know that I did download a chemistry of CBD book and I'm really good try looking in the molecular structure using gas chromatograph to see at what point these different molecules denature okay but as long as it is a even heat somewhere between 320° and 356° but going over 356 they believe you can denature the CBD now that doesn't mean that you don't denature the turbines which gets into a whole different discussion about using different essential oil or terpenes with your cooking so you could have different fruits or wait for this cake to come out here once it comes out that one right there we do know that the turbine profile of the KB MD healthy beauties a full-spectrum grade of the flavonoids in there so you're getting a lot of benefit from it and as long as we don't go over 356° for longer time more than likely you're going to get these health benefits from this fund to cook with it and add to unique earthy flavor reusing natural flavor with this now the other thing that people do talk about is make sure that when you're going to cook with it that you stored appropriately you don't really want it in real warm areas don't stick it in your car drive around with it then try cook with it because popular denature but other than that it is just an oiltable it's pretty stable it's just an excellent oil the other big thing is when you do attitude stuff to mix it up really good to make sure that is evenly dispersed amongst the so indicate thing with the whisker that you are doing there were to go ahead and take a look at that and see how that cannot see how it tastes and it's probably better to cook with it than to drizzle with it so the person people say is a limited drizzle and because the flavor can be overwhelming to whatever your energy putting it on okay so when you do attitude fat like let's say like I'm looking at different recipes guacamole perfect pink avocado you get avocado which is good fat you little CBD mix it up real good and you can sit there and do the so there are couple combinations that I've seen people commercially make available that I've kind of wondered how is it naturally being combined and I met saying that they're doing it wrong I'm just curious to see people add CVD to various beers and I know that there are water-soluble delivery systems but the limitation of water-soluble is often that day it does have a rapid onset but it also dissipates rather quickly yeah so we really get into at somewhat religion to the real science all that stuff in and trying to break through all the myths between what type of delivery system and what works well I just do know that what using the most common form which is the only oil very effective with my patients right in order to continue to develop different types of delivery systems and we won't develop important work with the power by looks all to come up with different delivery systems maybe even local delivery systems that really make a difference so I think our cake is done ahead of you to take over the mic yeah sure that we can get Ron in here at some point to try this out on the bus this cake out here and I'm in a it's good little little heavy there in the easy bake oven salt to pull it down to the side here, back I would get a heavy cake it's you be surprised what it does I am unsurprised you talk about it okay so Ron to come in here and also basically weigh in on our first in studio food concoction and do Brown says that the eating made it's a hot easy bake oven and can burning his fingers glad I didn't have sisters look like amount without being careful although he sounds excited all interesting that it came out of that small slit and such a big pan all well here comes Ron and this is interesting I I didn't realize it was ON such a spiraled fashion so much like the Food Network Ron is a celebrity judge yeah Ron is involved so many of you know Ron is been the producer of the show but in addition to that he's the fourth time world champion Lord doughnut Chef using keep going back to Candace keep working out and run with it that was about how this looks good so alright so the the presentation most people like cakes to have a certain form but the easy bake the beauty of the easy bake is it it cooks in whatever mood it's in decided to cook it into a ball to daughters Eric so I'm familiar with allowing so in essence I want you I want you to try that right there and we need your your honest professional judge opinion on okay Irish cooking ability here it's moist like it I have always good good start and you had had all organic vanilla milk all right here goes Ron Onan it's edible apparently and I'll be honest with you that's actually really really freaking good I want to make this up so everybody out there if you'd like right now you should be going home my daughter graduated she's married this bus that we visited easy bags of CBD will figure out it all will all come together yes that's really good got a great flavor and you you can't taste the CBD no I mean that's it but it I taste like it taste like a desert that's what is supposed to be I think it I think it's great that is a review that I did not expect I was not expecting it now Ron I also and Brown I can surprise you a little bit I knew it was going to cook Dave and I prepared something before I got her income mostly because I don't know how to use an easy bake oven just might let you kill an area that I can grab this entailed about while he's doing it so this this recipe that we actually did that that I I'm completely line this is not my grandmother's recipe I actually called the chef at Kenny's burger joint in Plano that I said Howdy has made a great chocolate cake and he gave me the recipe that's what we just did that's fantastic is really good and if and you know I'm a connoisseur of desserts all what you where going on here so what this is is inspired by my wife is gluten-free she spent does not eat gluten but she she's really good at finding some really cool tasting great tasting substitutes before we go on site thank you for sticking with the spirituals theme of today's food so well that what I is are involved in everything I made was in a ball the matter yeah that's a great bacon ball where it doesn't matter what I could not ride in the couch one day just a bacon ball like an apple I just tell you so what this is so many all albeit we do talk about not consuming too much sugar it is you can escape it every single time is miss you talk about dessert Saturday is cooking with CBD and desserts and there is this brand called Malley's cookies and its talk a lot but what it is met Malley's MEL I smell these monster cookies and they've got a bunch of different varieties but the they talk a lot ones are high in protein Siddhartha benefits over their art there is no wheat completely gluten-free ever something is gluten-free it's actually delicious what it does have and it is Oates a little bit sugar and it has some dark chocolate chips and some chocolate chunks of dark chocolate yeah and dabs of vanilla and in natural vanilla flavor and a couple other small little things in there like you said they it's not ideal but for desserts if you are having to steer free of gluten sometimes you do have to find something that's going to allow you to not only himself but what I did do and something that Dr. Brown was talking about earlier in this segment was you have to find something that agrees with the vehicle and so by the vehicle we mean the MCT Oil and by that you want have something to maybe fat so all you have to do when you make this is used preferably in all organic peanut butter which is what I did and then you metal to butter you and some eggs and they they Artie premixed the chocolate chips and nobody oats the serving sizes that I did have measured out by the amount of CBD happened to the mix each one of these little balls here will have around 7 g of sugar which isn't great but not that terrible and will have at least 8 mg of C meeting okay so I'm not even try to get I have no idea what it taste like you can also cook these but because I didn't want to risk targeting these up alimony trying to find out if so, I will try Woody's and so everyone is now picked one up of any coaching tells mine is in a ball hold is with it is dark the Eric St., Eric the presentation is fantastic in his ability to create a spherical form and stay consistent to your brand is beautiful by the the aroma peanut butter fish very peanut – ever those are like that again peanut butter were these peanuts from West Virginia management now know these are these are definitely West Texas peanut West to let Sheldon West Virginia that I remember getting it out to West Virginia designates very very interesting the others that were the steel cut they are still cut and I'm I'm curious at how you how you knew that so well but yeah. So now I want to shift gears and go from Food Network to NPR Eric Boudin people this sounds like the segments with rich office and I live so many jokes get to be quiet so in all seriousness Nancy Beatty's been added to it and we know what the natural CBD taste like I enjoyed but that being said see if it's overpowering which would be kind of the test marker of cooking with seating you think it's overpowering or do you are you able to discern time is taking so strong I'm not getting I'm not getting not getting to be never awesome awesome that no definitely the the the peanut butter of course write the chocolate because the chocolate it's because not melted right it's it's it's crunchy right that I talk in the coming know I don't get any I taste I'm not sure what it is that taste I don't think it's thick CBD it's good all of it great flavor what's really interesting it's always fun for us to be able to find foods that don't contain gluten that somebody else can begin to enjoy and here's something that even when when Marie is talking to other people that have suddenly found out that they also should avoid gluten unfortunately it's like a feeling of doom can't have anything I can't do this any I empathize with them it sucks you feel like you've kind of been closed in on like your lifestyle has been directly changing your really not supposed to have beer of any kind and if you're a social beer drinker both you may identify little that that that aspect is gone you gotta find either a substitute or just a different lifestyle just get used to not drinking in the same settings if you want to continue that part of so you recommend just putting these in water is these little balls than just sipping on that when you're out in social events that was right where I was going to ask is what we expect is lots of bars will all die balls of CBD and all you're doing is adding water it's amazing that you've made these leaps and you know exactly where we going now but it is nice to have something you can share with people who who don't know what they can consuming and find out that there is little hope oddly enough they sell this in our local Walmart on the wheat flour I'll as with the gluten-free section is are things can strange but they have one little shelf the Decatur Walmart doesn't feature a whole identity and but they have one little shelf they put together a handful of small things in a gluten-free free to be able to comfort this reminds me very much of when we were in San Diego and that company did pay Leo treats oh yeah so wrong we were we're at this meeting and they had these pale treats because of failure treats audit and they had little under these little pies were just so good is there a lot of meat protein and ball so I was there I was like why you have as many of these I want right so I grabbed a handful what back to the room watch some TV and just now and they were just like this I write like you could like you eat one you like will want to know I woke up with like five rappers on the ground was kind of blow to the next day and all the it seems like that's a little odd so I was thinking pale truth is much that want know know they are a good 500 cal pop and I just will learn mode through like five of them your full the next day to day trades actually are fantastic for a forceps to desert wrestling with thanks all organic honey yeah they they did they do a pretty good job of providing that but regardless they send us your ideas on foods that you would make with CBD and you can do that a KB MD health.com go to contact us choose an email will see if we can't make your recipe on the air probably now than easy bake oven but we should probably bring Brandon back on perhaps a Patrick takeover somebody who knows how to cook probably get plan to take one of these I might go back in the control room yes these are really good Eric built up well that's probably a little too rich for me but now absolutely thank you Ron well so Dr. Brown what else drew you into examining why you would want to cook with CBD we had people ask about any I know that but what was it the kind of well I I think it's it's a way to demystify something that there's so much confusion around and I think that we know that there is a I would say that every standard American that you to typical American diet lives a typical American lifestyle lack of sleep increased stress medications poor diet they all have an Endo cannabinoid deficiency Chef Patrick brought this up a few shows ago were actually early on where when they started regulating hemp hemp used to be used in cooking baton has use like crazy crap then of course Amanda class one thing were CBD and Hamp they just until the farm bill passed it was basically unavailable we started getting sicker at that same time so is that a situation where we really do need more of the full flower the hemp flower in our diet again to try and raise some of the new cannabinoid levels so when you start looking at this a great way to get people to realize they start paying attention to their diet they start looking at this and then they can start augmenting their own endo- cannabinoid system I think that the whole concept of cooking with CBD is incredible I mean you can look at different things like once we get away from canola oil which I'm not a big fan of right and you get away from all those polyunsaturated ones that are not quite good for you either you start realizing what you cook with avocado oil a good proper olive oil without burning it peanut oil peanut oil very good very well CBD is just another oil just another vehicle to deliver something but what's unique about it is that it does have the medium chain triglycerides and which cross the blood brain barrier and add fuel to your brain and it does have the end of Canada or it does have the cannabinoids in it which fuel your own Endo cannabinoids and I think it just be a really fun thing to start building different recipes as I mentioned early on and show most of the cookbooks are related to cooking with cannabis pure cannabis and has THC which gets away from that and start looking at this is more of a medicinal thing so that you can have some fun easy bake is just kind it was kind of tongue-in-cheek right there because a truly fun you can do this is a family just like you guys do you start talking why we want to choose this particular thing right and why were you looking a look at Howard and the cook why would you pay attention what were eating start at in the polyphenols start improving your and a cannabinoid system and used to start feeling better we know it's kinda interesting earlier in the show when we were referencing Ryan Carrigan in his diet so he if he were to supplement woods simply only be strengthening what would what by most people stand to be a really really great diet for all of us to adopt but this is reality and that is that in the Western diet we consume sugars every now and Imad try to avoid it but I would be untruthful or dishonest I said I never enjoy a treat like this so if you could incorporate a level of protection and cooking things like this where you're going to use in this instance the fat and you know that you have an NCT based legitimate data CBD and KB in the CBD and added it I wonder if you are adding some element of real protection not that you're not exposing yourself to some elements of sugar but maybe you're staving off a little bit of the inflammatory cascade that's to follow by basically having a high glycemic index food or something like okay so let's break this down the reason why said dark chocolate recent study just came out where it did look at dark chocolate and they show that it definitely helps people with depression right was a clinical trial that they did just publish with those eight dark chocolate had less depressive symptoms with the tendency that those that did have a tendency to have depression so we know that the cow and it does something cool that your cow is a polyphenol but dark chocolate is not it's really bad for you at all in fact if you look at max Luger beers book genius foods dark chocolate is one of the things he puts in the right avocado dark chocolate so on so dark chocolate is in this we do have these oats which are fiber the fibers arching the slow the absorption of the sugar so I love it whenever if you can put sugar as long as it's not with a super simple carbohydrate meaning that adjusting to dissolve when you think about the worst combination I think about like a really like a really fresh glazed doughnut you put in your mouth and it's melting your digesting it before it even gets your stomach yeah Joe that despite your sugar up like crazy which is why sodas are so bad let's get back to that when you have a liquid there's linear excretion which means that you just go to absorb it even if your stomach's not moving you can absorb a zero fiber 05 or so what this does is you put the fat here the fat from the MCT from the CBD in addition to adding any other fatty put in full regular grass fed butter what that does is that does something cold and it will break that tells your intestines to slow down because the reason why the ketosis diet work so well the reason why Adkins was so successful is because when your body tries to break down fat it slows digestion so when people a great example is this patient will come to be black I can't tolerate Derek what you drink drink skim milk drink whole milk and the like while I can recall milk the fat in the whole milk slows the slows the process has to break it down a little bit so that the ship the sugars the lactose sugar is sent out in smaller birth so that your body can break it down skim milk is just protein no fat and the sugar goes right through so I'm not famous can obliterate out so we got away from skim milk we got away from fats and people start drinking skim milk when the rowdies want people to tolerate half-and-half and whole milk way better than I can tolerate skim milk because the facet of their so get back to this we got dark chocolate we got our prebiotic in the oats we've got our good fats that are there and the peanut butter as a ton of flavor and a good organic peanut butter brings on protein brings more fat into the picture is kind of a good little snack and if you're going to do something this is a good way to do it I think the way you probably even mean Malays may not may not like it so much that you could probably look at this recipe or what it is they put in here modified just a little bit in terms of the sweetener and really have a solid a solid snag just like you just said is it is high in protein especially with the peanut butter that's in there if you didn't want these peanut butter you wanted use cashew butter and sugar did the same thing I'm sure some people have peanut butter allergies entry could substitute basically I think with the peanut butter you get consistency and flavor all excellent and it was a binder yet as you know I look and said I think it's great it's called Melanie's yeah MEL I as these they get say a mother and daughter that decided to start making foods that were gluten-free to taste good that's, they did really interesting it's also Ron Esther I have a small confession to make this or I may have exaggerated a little bit when I said that the recipe was from Kenny's burger chef there's a Shafter numeric and they make us a chocolate cake actually what I did as well as planning the show I thought to be pretty funny talking with CBD and using my daughter's easy bake oven this was actually a dessert from Kenny's that I unfortunately left in my car and it got squished there was supposed to be a formed actual okay when I showed up to the studios motor with how I pull this one off it's just a big molten glob so shout out to Kenny's burger for hooking me up with some cake having to play a joke what kind of a backfire and I still think that the ball thing worked out yeah I can imagine that it would not encourage anybody that you bust out these because you sent results what one of the what is food to be seen with the CBD added in another wave police we run across a couple of tree to run across a couple of leasing economies but if that have shown up and circulated in our area near North Texas now so but that's one of those things when you start incorporating things into a processed mechanism is that what is that you do the molecule how hot does it get what are they do what preservatives do that but what is that do I mean for me I'm in it I don't need I mean I like the taste of it and I'm regular user of CBD etiquette in the morning at night my kids use all my staff is on it sure basically if you know me, till you get on it and I would say that you know that something works is when you have a 90% rebuy right right so everybody's note likes it and so they come back but looking at different things when you think about if you want that little CD to something great things of these fats so you can add it to anything have a fat like avocado over gluten-free toast right or better yet if you start reading about bread and breadmaking true sourdough bread that you make from starter and you make it home the gluten gets broken down watch a show on Netflix called cooked the episode is air as for parts watch that and explain how true sourdough bread I can actually be tolerated by gluten by gluten intolerant people I don't know about Celia Cohen recommend that sure but probably there and that the I just saw this in the news the BBC they uncovered a some cave archaeological dig where they found starter mix really 4500 years old and I made bread from it so it was traditional or real heirloom they use to when you had your family started yeah you would pass it on generation to generation you would feed the starter like it was looked like it was a living organism plant and then you would use a blood starter to mix with flour let it ferment a little bit that become sourdough you stick it in the bake it imagine fresh sourdough toast with some avocado and CBD oil that's a fantastic with true sourdough's consider superfood isn't sourdough in the issue of gluten intolerance and I could be wrong. Isn't believed that the bacteria are actually given the opportunity to basically break down the Gleaton portion of that was exactly what it does the bacteria use it as fuel yeah that's fascinating that supposedly is eliminating that the protagonist is causing everything and I can I can 100% a test I have I've been experimenting with homemade sourdough bread I have gluten intolerance and it's it's like night daily come in the bathroom kind of thing like you did like it's not like a placebo effect I have no issues Sonny Lovett and I just absolutely love it when you have homemade sourdough bread that is awesome well we just experimented with cooking on I gut check project thank you all for the ideas we waived you made your email that is exactly why we broke into this today so certainly appreciated be sure to like and share our program with everyone that you know you won't hear from us go to get your project.com thank you thank you this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun clear spoony let's say you just bought a house bad news is you're one step closer to becoming your parents you will probably mow the lawn ask if anybody noticed you mowed the lawn till people to stay off the lawn and compare it to your neighbor's lawn and complained about having to mow the lawn again good news is it's easy to model home and auto through progressive and save on your car insurance which of course will go right into the lawn progressive casualty insurance company affiliates and other insurance discount not available in all states or situations you husband and wife may kiss the bride connecting to care whenever you needed like video chatting with the doctor right from your phone so I don't need stitches thank you Dr. United healthcare health plan benefits may vary
Bryan Bradford is a certified health coach and nutritionist. He is also an owner of the Sunflower Shoppe. Sunflower Shoppe is a long tested pioneer of healthy grocery and supplement stores located in Tarrant County (Fort Worth) Texas.
A US Army and Gulf War veteran, Bryan found inspiration to serve his fellow citizens by helping his family business become a stronger resource for health.
Bryan joins the GCP to discuss the process of vetting quality products, the importance of certifications and COAs, the dangers of misinformation, bad labels and chemicals.
The Sunflower Shoppe serves Tarrant and surrounding counties by having well trained staff, fully screened high quality products, and frequent open forum lectures to educate all of heir customers.
https://sunflowershoppe.com
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-healthy-approach/id1444435104
https://lovemytummy.com/spoony
https://gutcheckproject.com
https://kbmdhealth.com
And now an ad from dad save money on car insurance when you bundle home and auto with progressive what is this where did you get this I'm talking to you with the hair yeah where did you get this good stuff so that's another nearly solid stuff progressive can't save you from becoming your parents but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto progress casually intrinsically affiliates and other insurers discuss not available in all stricter situations all right it is August 1, 2019 this is episode 19 the gap check project with your host Dr. Ken Brown I'm Eric Greer what's up can August 1 August 1 does it give a final become summer here in Texas because it's been really mild it's amazing we haven't I don't think it officially which I think official temp records in our area By DFW airport I don't think they've officially recorded 100° day in all July which is amazing if you're not from Texas that does not happen often I was listening to a Jim Gaffigan set on the way over here we talked about living in the Midwest spring just it sometimes it did vanish like louts it's April it's 30° the next days like 90 music well there was spring on every thrill hot pocket juggling hey so it is it is August 1 and for all of the several hundred of you that wrote in to let us know that you have liked and shared get your project back to the month of July for the contest for the signature package from Dr. Brown being a month supply about trying to heal and keeping the CBD thank you thank you thank you so much for the help the growth the the spreading of the word all of the winners will receive an email by the end of this week we were advised not to read off your names here because we need to have your permission which kinda stinks but I really didn't think that that's being new to to podcast and that's why we have a producer to make sure that we don't step on her on her feet that way Ron is like now you gotta get that kind of in writing so you will be notified the good thing is is after all of the success of the present especially in the art inside we don't have five winners of six winners six winter so it's awesome that's over $600 worth of giveaways right there that you make available to everybody so thank you again to everyone we will have more contests and more chance to share more opportunities and incentives on the good stuff coming forward but what a great way to to roll into the summer so absolutely so you have is our guest today guest today is the great Brian Bradford from sunflower shop and some flower shop if you don't know you live here nor Texas you are missing out basically they are they are the pioneers especially here in Tarrant County so it started to bleed by his grandmother run by his father down in Fort Worth they've expanded now they get a gigantic store appear in Colleyville right off of the 121 and you've given to records – on a super impressed is super smart guys certified health Coach got his own podcast called the healthy approach former military veteran really knowledgeable and I've given two lectures at his store with great turnout like standing remotely like people really enjoy going to stores and hanging out little lecture I does the first time that I've had a differing age population right and you know we always hand out cards to see how people react to its first time I got like didn't understand a word like oh I need to remember not talking to healthcare professionals all the bad I want to like redo it for her to drag her house and be like when he does redo this or catch maybe a little science as well but was also pretty funny and some of those responses were great lecture and they circled one so they just backwards on the net on the numeric scale which I thought was funny that all the time whatever doing those online, root reviews through Keith world somebody will sit there and say you amazing that it save my life and the one you calm up joke hey kid you change that formula, ruining the curve yeah it's not first place any five stars is that's funny stuff well out Brian in his store there was so much more than store which is why were having him here they their pioneer in the community what does it mean to choose healthy foods to have supplements that mean something to have someone guide you to something that it's going to actually benefit you that's why they have such a good turnout whenever you went there to get those lectures these people the customers and the clients that they have their date they don't shop there just because it's convenient place to go to they go there because he getting information on how to live better yeah I can't wait to bring about article with him also trying to was NSF certified I do and the polyphenols have been shown to augment athletic performance correct by increasing nitric oxide an article just came out that's Asada warned athletes about rise in ligand role use so the Australian sports anti-doping Authority warned athletes less than a year ago the ligand role was appearing regularly in random supplements so people are putting this in ligand role is a storm a storm is a selective androgen receptor modulator it's a class of compounds that have very similar products or similar properties to anabolic agents have less androgenic properties and so athletes were using this started in the bodybuilding world and now it's ending up in all these supplements and people to realize it so you have these pro athletes that are being stripped of their titles and stuff like for instance Joaquin Noah tested positive for was suspended for 20 games the best ballplayer emits mixed martial arts athletes that have been find money and had to sit out for six months or so and they swear that they were taking it on purpose and it just shows I can't wait to talk to him about how he vets the different products ago in his in his store and how many NSF certified products he has and so on so because that is exactly why we go to the trouble doing NSF I think really be going to what's the nutrition oh were going to fencing and that that is at the house but on my dates incredibly that is the last week of October or the last
regardless it's a gigantic nutrition conference for our registered dietitians coming there they're basically the front line of how we are reaching so many people 100% not sure that Brian will talk little bit about that because I pretty sure they have registered dietitians startled yeah I know that he is a clinical health coach and not Kunkel nutritionist himself so so this is why it's so important that when you have a product that you can not only to help with bloating not only do we help with the note G.I. distress different things like that bacterial overgrowth SEBO but you know we can show that it's NSF certified you knew the polyphenols as a benefit for your athletic performance yet that is so important to somebody who's a nutritionist dealing with clients could be athletes college athletes Olympic athletes professional athletes even right now Lucas is up in Kalamazoo and he's playing at high level you start applying IETF's and they have banned substances that are actually listed there so just that it happens even a really early age so NSF certified optional until go to love my Tommy.com/spoony SP 00 NY and you get a really big discount on this in a minute challenge everybody to commit to do this because we want to get a little bit of a pusher and make sure that we start promoting the NSF certification the polyphenols and the overall digestive relief on your safety and your confidence is critically important you start whenever we started the company you made no bones about you want to make certain that you had a product that worked to make sure that she had a product was healthy it featured polyphenols but at the same time he didn't want cost to be an issue you wanted to be in excess or I'm sorry a barrier to accessing you also didn't want anybody to not be confident what they were choosing was it safe that's funny because eventually have to write a book about the whole process because like when I look back there are some really funny moments like for instance when we were trying to figure out how to get the we knew that Cabral chose you to be our main ingredient type so we contacted a company that we now work with regularly in the fantastic company but I got some terrazzo in the because I'm worried about everything so I better make sure that this is exactly exactly what it is so I called around if you want to hear something funny stay tuned so I called around and asking labs and the like now as it turns out there's only really one major deconstruction lab it's in Kansas I got hold of the owner and I was like hey I need you to freeze I was like no problem send me some of the bar can all do it I would send you some of the bark is a gas chromatograph on if we get one major spike reducing that's that but I can only do that to a comparison just you watch way too much CSI several white bags that tell us what that is but he comes back it is just like out goes actually we have to compare to get something no gas chromatograph it's it's a fingerprint of the molecule right and we did that episode on food pairing to remember that all yeah that was a gas chromatograph you look at different foods with similar gas chromatograph's and the aromas augment each other and as a way to do food pairing we do that we shut Patrick early on but this is this is an example so I send it to them and I'm like I got a flat on Argentina get some tree bark just go to chop it off and send it so that we went through a lot of trouble to make sure that it was everything was pure but I was the funniest thing you watch too much CSI well and and then beyond that whenever you and Brandy or step in interest to try it out because every single thing you've ever turned out the all of always put yourself through the test first and we learned that through without even knowing that but we learned that through Dr. Dryden right out of Kentucky he's a fantastic guesser neurologist full bird colonel I believe he's an obscure himself and we got to talking that there is a Helsinki rule that if the researcher is willing to do it to himself and it's not questionable or anything then essentially you're saying no I believe this is safe and here's my data with that so yeah everything that we've done it's always been on me and Brandy first so so did you have a brainy phone call one time we were at the time this two different types Toronto Roger Blanco and abrazo Colorado which one is in 20 oh Colorado so the blanket was much easier want to get that act as a molecule in the cold your Hindi which can be a stimulant and it's been reported to have different effects including improved sexual function and things like that but that's one that nobody can find in fact that was well when I did Melanie Avalon's intermittent fasting podcast is check that out right the first one I did it twice with over the first one I found her in website that she tried to make out trying to at home and it did work and work and we actually had a long discussion as well it's because it's a totally different type of molecules because it says Toronto doesn't mean that it's it's this dongle easy to get Colorado not not and so we got the Blanco we will try to dose it out what what we thought it would be to state that Brady had to go to a meeting and I dumped the rest on the sink night and then one of the employees came back say the sink stopped up like what I realize that did say it'll just congeal in water and I went so I called up I'm suggest our children water coke out of the once you have a bowel obstruction to have explained that but virtually nothing happened but I member when we first launched also so we called up with some abdominal pain and I worried I mean I took a bunch so I just ate a whole bottle just make sure wouldn't cause like an obstruction or anything patient call back on fine and hassle – it's going well I got time 60 capsules sit in my stomach let's see what happens you like a Kobayashi of the eating contest but that being said we did understand this is it that reckless we do understand the science of this the cool thing about these polyphenols is that they are poorly absorbed so they stay primarily in the small intestine and there have been studies that have shown that the blood levels are essentially negligible but then when they try and find it imprudent find less than 1% of the original molecule which means it's doing exactly what we needed to do goes through goes to the colon where your bacteria break it down into all these beneficial molecules like euro with and things like that which help with overall my coffee G cell turnover carrying a very antiaging then your Litton is if you done any research and you really try to figure out molecularly what you should be interested in your lesson should be of a good trigger word I think over time it's can be more ubiquitous or more prevalent as people begin to talk about what you can do to be as someone is actively antiaging I totally agree the only thing we were talking about this people become O'Brien the only thing that I don't like is that when this research happens everybody's trying to find their angle and so when Morgana was in town talking about this she's a PhD that we work with he we got to talk about the different metabolites in how people try to figure out how to make these metabolites and turn them into drugs or turn them into a new supplement and it just doesn't work that way mother nature knows how to do it just can't completely manipulated like that now you mother nature works in its whole form I made it we've seen that time and time again we we reference that with that even even marketed drugs that are trying to compete with over-the-counter supplements specifically melatonin we go back to the days of Rozerem when they tried to isolate and make this basically Roseann was post to be a super melatonin that was going to be 14 times the binding affinity of of endogenous or regular melatonin turns out it didn't do much anything you just separated a lot of bills that your wallet didn't sleep anymore it's me that's a bit that's frustrating to see this when we have a lot most pharmaceutical start from a plant-based something she made a Mormon weldment form and the agent Jacoby reductase inhibitors the cholesterol medications aspirin and most of them start or what GW is trying to do now with spinning down that CBD specifically doesn't work nearly as well they can charge you how much do we hear that someone is being charged I don't know exactly but it is tens of thousands is what I was told because it's such a rare orphan goes in orphan drug status duvet syndrome and Lenox Gestalt which is unfortunately a severe form of epilepsy in children small gripe and happened to notice that I didn't read this before did you know okay so upfront for those you who may not know whenever you have something it is prescriptive that may have addictive traits then the FDA technically awarded what they call a scheduled class and schedule class I they basically say highly addictive but has no medicinal purpose there's a handful of things that fall in their people usually a default say heroin etc. and you got to which is most of your potent opioid stent nail cocaine etc. have some medicinal use but could be highly abused or had abuse potential as always down to schedule control five I saw on the label for GW's new release that they have a C5 on there which it really hates schedule it's not addicted it's the most ridiculous FDA's allowed to call schedule five which is like drinking water right and then they had all that coming due or just talking six months ago were people being arrested and saying you can't do this it's addictive in all kinds are so much misinformation out there about CBD is think about that they're trying to trying to pair this this connotation it that there's a little bit of fear and if you understand scheduled medications are trying to say that there is an element of addiction associated with and I spun down CBD isolate its insane it is so now now they are there quite worried about anybody even coming close to pairing up a disease claim with the with CVD and this is from the same institution which has allowed the food products that you eat to be sprayed with with Roundup doesn't it does not there's just so there's so many things were heading and a lot of wrong directions which is why we like having just like Brian on we can talk about how shop like some Photoshop can really help out guide you in your food choices guide your supplement choices I mean just look at CB dealing one of the reasons why we teamed up KPMG health CBD we got that certificate of analysis we really want to make sure that you get what you're doing so CBD my wife she owns a wellness studio called body body balance wellness and its indicator and she has all kinds of different people to come to ask questions and she gets asked about CBD also just yesterday she came across an article where yet another celebrities endorsing the use of it so this is it coming for mazes and coming from my Dr. Brown but Michael J Fox is apparently become part of one of the CBD companies and specifically because of the effect that CBD is having the positive effect it's having on his Parkinson's which I found interesting but not surprising knowing how we think that the Indo cannabinoid system strikes a balance between our nervous and immune systems it does make sense knowing the Parkinson's has some elements of inflammation and a course you have the uncontrolled twitches and whatnot would ask which of course would be the your neurologic complex of our bodies, running out of control he's found some elements of improvement in his life by making CBD a daily part of it so basically treating CBD for him and in his words is a micronutrient oh really isn't what I was really really yeah me last week show we did brief we covered three articles but one of the articles we did cover was on the micro biome affects people with Lou Gehrig's disease and how the micro biome has anti-inflammatory markers which which does this order talk a little bit later about how complex these and a cannabinoid system really is and how a lot of things can be affected but that makes total sense and I want to see at some point that were having CBD catered to in you right have ready so scared to say diseases but CBD catered to something with a different terpene compound turbines are the essential oils in it or different flava noise component because we considered okay what are you looking for this for what I have I have a neurologic process I got MS I've got Parkinson's like the circuit we need something to cross the blood brain barrier more so let's try this particular one with a higher content that's right think the sciences had yeah and it's it's put the cart for the horse because you can't make your disease claims or if you like that but at least we can sit there and go okay this makes sense why that's actually happening you know if I was in Norway we can pull that off you what I'm say was that debt Texas oh yeah so today I learned on Reddit sounds good yeah that Norway people use the term Texas as slaying for crazy it doesn't hurt a person but a chaotic atmosphere or state of mind so saying a party was totally crazy in Norwegian would be debts of our help Texas which literally means it was Texas and I'm looking at the comments of those people from Norway going up we do say that is awesome I I think it is also the green to that point it would be that would be pretty pretty amazing what you know what Holly what what movie was that I think it was Independence Day when the aliens were coming down and they showed how different people were panicked but they paint over to Los Angeles and they were all going crazy and welcoming the aliens I could wait to be abducted it's almost like if you want to join us have like a weird connotation Los Angeles is kind of said yeah that's that you could say it's it's only Los Angeles or Texas is now apparently just wild crazy and wild about Israel so I'm not sure helping the families we have in no way right now but the now that forgot his name but my dancing partner when we are rude to the bathwater 000 she's Norwegian yes yes it is pretty nasty yeah he took control of the as a live band and had them play what he wanted them to play those Norwegians there so Texan yeah and I he was he was great he's hilarious so we now with Brian coming on here in our next half-hour old and have a good 90 minutes this guy this guy's got incredible experience long before he decided to get into running the DSM flower shop which he has your which we referenced in locations in Fort Worth often can't buoy your location appear in Colleyville and got another one it's a smaller version over on heritage trace the cool thing that I liked about it is as they've grown they just simply found that people looking for a local answer that has real guidance to get people into the store so what what you think it takes for a community that may be somewhat isolated to began to find out that they may have better access to this type of nutrition and where they don't to turn to just the Internet over the Internet away because if you look at like the span of where a lot of the healthy shots are its economy migrates from the west and Canada tapers down almost a a diagonal line into Texas and as you go to the southeast until you hit some some populate your supply. Parts of Florida you really don't see you don't see a lot of sunflower shops and stuff like that why is I've never really thought about him for when I imagine the West yes because that becomes her but Texas is really embracing it right now sure and a lot of people they want to go to their doctor and they want to talk nutrition and the doctor is busy doesn't have time doesn't maybe doesn't know a lot I freely admit that I'm continually learning more and more about nutrition little account locale even just think in your life how you changed your thought about what the importance of food is any outside of of medical school the growing up in Nebraska me going up in Texas at first I read anything much about us came home and ate and I have a lecture change my pocket I go to the convenience store and buy something but it's not like that it all for me anymore and then nowadays when we think of you'll you'll hear okay this year so-and-so is released the most obese states of the most obese cities are the least healthy whatever unfortunately this statement immediately comes to mind is first Mississippi or something like that and then it is quickly followed by Alabama Louisiana is a great topic to go over with Brian is a social economic is an education thing is it possible to eat healthy on a budget is it possible to to do all these things the highly processed foods that mean we talked about this all the time I think Netflix just has a new thing called fat something I'm seeing it and I'm assuming that either I was scrolling around with Carla try forgot something to watch and it does get into the fact that 30 years Gordon 1970 I think there's a 1.5 million Americans with diabetes I would like 30 million only some crazy jump that just happened under our noses and we didn't even notice it so that is really a lot to talk about the Bronx on policy bills I don't see the business side to see him as a healthcare provider how do we merge the two where would you go with it it's really really cool that's an unacceptable level and rate of growth is just not enough time for many people to have her since we said Carlsbad I'm sorry fat bad maple starter really double down on the carbs and you know the ass oil started taking place watch watch less which episode I really appreciate all the emails about Amsoil where you can guided some of those comments are pretty pretty funny white liquid and be back in just a moment with Brian Bradford of sunflower shop and that of course the healthy approach podcast we will see you here in just a expenses blue yellow pills to charge your sex life are you thinking about what we can promise you the same results for three paying $20 a pair for the other path you're getting taken to the cleaners same results for less than three dollars and $16 account for the same results right now for blue or yellow pills 23 and keeping more than hundred dollars our pharmacy prices right now your 40 4 PM and qualify for free setting over pain, right now 186 473-800-2186 473-800-1864 73 800-218-6473 fast-track student loans can get your student loans out of the vault stop any wage garnishments stop collection calls and stop seizure of your tax refund give yourself a break to stop the stress and get your student loan payments down to as little as $25 a month based on what you can afford to pay 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 now you can fly anywhere in the world and paid discount prices on your airline tickets flight to date alignment harassment to read or anywhere else you want to go and pay a lot less guarantee quality international travel department right now low-cost airlines grade 452-107-5800 452-1075 that's 800-452-1075 although we are back in his 19 year with Dr. Brown your host and I met Eric Rieger today we have a special guest this is Brian Bradford of the sunflower shop here in North Texas Brian how you doing I'm doing well thanks for having me on today thank you for coming down and make time with us of course you are now the host of your I guess somewhat recently launched the healthy approach podcast have a healthy approach but because we distorted that your recently to sober try to get kick started to get into this environment this much you guys are that is awesome I know that when can I were talking last half-hour about whenever he came to do the two lectures up at some flower shop now a course your shop is necessary close to him because he's on the other side of the Metroplex right off shop there for years I was not surprised to turn out the first think and said it was that was amazing the engagement was real direct the room yeah well I think that is what's really cool so you actually have on the second floor a full lecture room old 80% 80 people comfortable 80 people I was just shocked both times I went completely packed and I what I like is the sense of community how a lot of people make this the regular outing they want to learn and you you help them learn and you were asking last half-hour how do we go about getting people to become healthier will it all everything comes on education but it does and that's what we pride yourself and as stump our shop is really trying to give people all the education and let people know who's in their backyard having a lot of people don't notice people like yourself who are open-minded to both medical and alternative nutrition and that's huge because people are seeking this information and people like you got Brown coming in and doing your speaking engagement such a blessing for a lot of people both certainly an honor in your you get out the community and you get to hear little bit what people are saying and after the Q&A is so long because people are questioning oh boy yeah and do that and then you start realizing oh my gosh there's some there's a little mismanagement going on out there know my doctor wanted you X, Y, and Z them like why we try to quit doing that in the 70s that's weird yeah it's about keeping up with the research and I know you're someone is a pioneer in that well the one thing that I'm like very open to I watched a Kimber what podcast it was a Freakonomics Freakonomics podcast had a whole episode on medical reversals and you realize I fully expect that what I'm doing today should be somewhat tweaked and could be a little wrong and may be misinformed just like retirement when white low-fat hi card we became sicker that's right and that was that will spread like crazy you know where people do this I was there is a podcast a listen to this morning holds all bones and it's the doctor that that kinda talks about medical misinformation possibly in her husband it's kind of funny and they were talking about alkaline water about how people want to drink alkaline water and she would just go back over the science of it they do a whole episode on medical reversals also and it's not necessarily that your doctor doesn't know what's going on because most of the time the doctors figured it out for instance when Eric was a drug rep for Xenical when they said that you could block fat and lose weight it didn't take long for the medical community to learn something yes they were introduced to add soil so as it turns out he created a lot of in a leakage of oil could you can digest your fats and yeah the warning was to wear white pants with that right warning on the bus that was at that was the corporate response type hands you're not sick it's completely natural that we can all just realize were losing weight is it's only then he is really only 20 years ago I mean that Danielle Ally still would like still out there as far as I know has everyone Walt Walmart had pallets about stuff like crazy has a fat blocker and that's not that's not the source of your problem it's it's it's it's it's unfortunate I did that start out with potato chips or something this night it did when Xenical was like will board this is not going to around let's just sell the which is still being treated so that both Frito-Lay and all the big giant companies they got it they called olestra olestra and everything in San Antonio was in medical school and a DJ on the edge I was driving and he was like Joe not eat these Doritos is horrified euro detailed graphic incidents about how it just he had no control the student realize was happening and is through upward summary stories about that yet people just started with potato chips on their people come in and say hey these things really upset me big time you know I need something else my bowels back in order again crazy what's crazy how fast they pass the buck to because it did start start off is the generic name orlistat and then they just barely tweak the name and called it olestra and move it into large consumables we just want warm at all now that is going down a surprise attack what you know with some flower shop I find it to be an incredibly awesome store and it was refreshing to me when I first did I discovered I was doing we had Dr. J. Anna was doing anesthesia with him that get here Bedford and then I drove along I saw some flower shop looks like a place I like to go to so did you think it was a floral shop though the very first time I didn't honestly I didn't really know I think this is right when the iPhone pretty much had made its way to me and I was googling a place to find a healthy snack and I was it down in Bedford and it came up with some flour shot you can with some flower shop and when I just sawed off in the distance a light I guess at that I'm headed now it's right but a course I yell or not that far from ignorant traditional big chain grocery storages setback behind you so I walked in and immediately I could say okay this place is different and and there's a reason why it exists and it's a lot because of what you talked about with the change in fat content and how people moved over eating different foods it forced people to have to find a different answer and so your grandmother and your dad started this several years ago in 1970 there was a reason they that long ago get into something like this and that is the aspect that it was considered broody right hours herbs and supplements go but no my grandmother started because her sister was dying of leukemia and just all the horror of course you know what treatments were like back in the 60s for the top of this you know Jesus was looking for better ways and she came across some of the pioneers like Adele Davis and Linus Pauling and so forth and said hey baby or something to this we need investigative mordant so that's really what she sold her moving company with that a moving company at the time sold but gamble everything on a subpar shop now why the name I can't tell you why the name all we know is that you love some flowers so is probably where it started out there but that's really work began in 1970 in Wedgewood Texas you know in Fort Worth area and then it grew to now where were at three locations three generations later my brother and two sisters now run the all three locations man it's in its awesome is something one of the things he jumped at me right away when I very first went in there so it was it was probably not inoculation into a store the sky like that and where you go to a big chain they have to identify if they identify the foods that are there okay and or and or non-GMO and rare we don't have to worry about that because everything and there's been vetted they're not going to put a crappy product in the store so first like the wonders of Abel that's okay this fits what I'm after so what what you think led her to decide you know what I don't like what's offered everywhere else and not only my going to open up my own I'm probably gonna carry a lot of things it really is not comfortable with or doesn't know how a lot about how did she decide and then you fallen your dad fall into the idea I like educating people want to know about the selection comes out that's where it really started was really based all centered around education okay no course we didn't know was much we do down today but it started with the education of just saying hey let's learn more about the body and how you know certain plants and herbs can interact with body the best we do back in the 70s is where she started but she wanted everything is clean as possible she didn't want anything to do with chemicals and in anything that's foreign to the body and spirit that way she was really want to keep things clean as possible now today health is relative to the person she notes that we got something with it for everybody what's good for one doesn't mean it's good for the next person and that's where what we pride herself and in consumer like yourself walks into the store we ask a bunch of questions we want to know little bit who you are where you're coming from what your mission goals are and so were gonna do our best to try to isolate you know even though we may have 20 different vitamin C's on the shelf which one is best for you everybody's a little different for each reason summary very first launched trying to heal and we were talking about where all that we wanted to take it just ideas how do we how do we let people here know I gained a whole new respect or what it takes to get into a repeatable store because we talked about trying to let some flower shop on the first longitude and yellow light well we need to see why you think it works what's the story behind it we had to submit all of our ingredients yell called back ask questions the exchanged information that way it was an easy and it was worth it so basically it filtered it keeps out the noise and it put innocently woke on this we think so but puts in the solid product that's available to your well beyond customers or clients well it's a reputation you know we we want make sure that when you're pick up a product simpler shot but it's a good quality product to the best that we can bet it yeah that's that keyword that because that's what ends up happening with that these big box when we we always reference the Wall Street Journal article that described how when they did DNA analysis then we show that 70 over 70% of the products that I have what was on the label a new study just came out on melatonin were the range from nothing to 500% of what was on the label and so it's still happening all the time all the thing it is it's all the time and here we get hit which all these companies are always want to come into the store and it's like you said it becomes low noise and you gotta be old have some kind of system to filter that down and figure out what what in the product is a good for you no good for you it's got her chip is attested for heavy metals in bold pollutants and all the toxins we get to know those things it's important to try to get the best quality product to the consumer and that's I mean what were talking about that I did want to hit on something so when somebody maybe doesn't have the will to say really air water like a really expensive so were an arrow on in LA ditto like celebrities like to go there and it's note similar to what you have but I think it's probably little pricier jurisdiction only mild horse so how do you that like this put this much work into it and still make it affordable so the people become in our system we got some great people the store really do know exactly what to look for what to ask for the questions that we need to know from manufacturers now on my side of things all even fly out to the manufacturing plants I want to see what whether sources are coming from how the processing is much as we can make sure that the bathtub is clean going to make sure the colloquy was possible Eric always there always places drugs and put one of my patients asleep that he just made that propofol this morning's bathtub the flash works real good you don't know you boys your insurance is bad little humor takes away the head to bad food helps everybody but it is it is it really boils down to the best quality get good there's a lot of junk out there there isn't special I know you're big on the CBD side I mean look how many CBD companies are just popping up left and right we get stores popping up all around us you know how are they now they really betting what their carrion and make sure it's good quality product is an unfortunate since this is just the just another thing that just cannot come in around in it we just have to do a lot of educated speaking of educating Brian whatever we do the show I was trying pull an article and now that you brought up CBD limits I about this article that is really interesting because it it hits home with me so dear have anybody comes and complains of the belly issues got issues that is not complaining about soil probably about 3040 times a day so in the this just got published in the Journal of pharmacologic sciences this looks at the role notes can be a really fancy title all eventually get to the point where it's like this is really what this means but it's exciting for me because it's in my world the role of cannabinoid signaling in the brain over Rex and grown induced visceral anti-nociception in rats fancy title basically what what's going on here is that if anybody's ever had abdominal discomfort you been labeled with irritable bowel syndrome then you know that you have what's called visceral hypersensitivity meaning what they have shown is that when people have got issues like bacterial overgrowth see Bo IBS irritable bowel syndrome that they can inflate a balloon in a normal person and this is been proven in humans and animals that one person at the same when one person like yeah there's a balloon in my rectum I can feel it at the other persons come off the table in pain because the direct correlation of the brought date of the gut brain access actually get that person to feel the pain more we call that visceral hypersensitivity so what they're looking at here is that these guys were looking at two hormones correction which is a fasting hormone and sodas hypo cretin to neuropeptide regulates arousal wakefulness and appetite Eric and I were doing a five day fast one time and basically I made my whole company do it in almost all of us like middle the night on day four day three I don't remember what it was but we were all up just run around wired wired yeah and that the old Rex and is this neuronal peptide which is kicking in man and it's because if you go a certain period of time an evolutionary standpoint it's time to go until something in feed go feed the village that's right and so this all wrecks and does that and what it also does which I was unaware of in this is it actually decreases your abdominal perception of pain very fascinating to me and then growling is the hunger hormone we always badmouth it but it actually also decreases the perception of abdominal pain as well so they were citing prior studies with this where this was new to me but we've got these two direction and grown which do this so now it's well known that CBD cannabidiol has been shown to also help with bowel hypersensitivity and it was I don't my practice as he does benefit all the time I put everybody on trying to in CBD and we just get overall benefit for whatever is going on does your belly feel that yes it does what we've always kind of thought will maybe it was an interaction with the receptor CD1 receptor is in anticholinergic the end of cannabinoid system is so complex would really, learning that attract what this article did is it really it was really cool it theorized that CBD had a direct effect on erection and growl and so they set up an animal an animal model to try and prove what they did is they took various rats and they had these pain perception techniques which were too cruel but not very nice either but everything I remember our animal study it's like doesn't sound Nido sound good to know they used a CD one and CD two agonist meaning they were able to give a molecule to turn on CD wanted CD to which are our Endo cannabinoid receptors then they used synthetic correction and growling to actually kick those out finally they had CB one CB two erection and relevant antagonists or blockers so what they did is they could turn your enter cannabinoid system on that you turn it off they could turn on your grill and anorexia and they can turn it off so first what they did is they blocked the CB one receptors and then they gave the hormones of erection and drilling next they gave a CB agonist with no hormones and then third they just gave the CB blocker less ICBM in the undercabinet system blocker and checked central rocks and Negron levels so what I thought is pretty interesting when the end of cannabinoid system of the CB receptors were stimulated this actually induced improved pain perception from colonic stretch so we have a mechanism of action we can't make disease claims but now we've got a study that proves that when you stimulate BCB receptors then they can tolerate more colonic stretch then the hormone effects were severely blunted when the CB receptors were blocked okay so when they gave Grell and Anil Rex and it didn't work unless you have proper CBD levels so basically we can say that that ECC has health is paramount to all Rex and a growl and performing their job absolutely this is the first time it's ever been associated that this would suggest that that the CB receptor CB wanted to be to they can actually mediate the correction induced effects on paint okay we have a mechanism of action that now says oh it's modulating this hormone that helps out a first time somebody's going to this depth what was interesting is growing was also blocked by CB to but not by CB one so it's just really complex okay they go down some rabbit holes I'm trying to really supply this but it is geeky geeky geeky science so what to suggest is that CBD is involved in the hormone benefits of pain relief in the bowel super interesting because many people believe that CB to is in the periphery but there were showing is it's also the brain affecting drilling that is amazing I know it's amazing because we we don't do complex but you don't want to simplify it too much ego this is all that we know so they're saying no there's a lot of CBT receptors in the brain and its regulating other peptides and hormones so this shows a very intricate interplay of the under cannabinoid system and how it can mediate central hormone effects so in layperson terms if you have hypersensitivity got it if you expect if you want these people that when you bloat it hurts really bad because we don't have pain receptors with stretch receptors so if you have bloating due to bacterial overgrowth or irritable bowel syndrome then you may notice an improvement through couple ways you can check the erection up by fasting so that was something else think about Mike that we should do more long fast right or prolonged style fast if you're low on your own endogenous Endo cannabinoids then taking CBD may increase these hormones get you back to balance and finally if you're not in balance than these other complex processes are knocking work as well so just really complex but I thought this was really interesting that I can say oh I have a reason why you feel better and you don't hurt as much when you're taking a good quality city Sony really I think the take away here is nothing in the body is is in a vacuum they long ago you use all connected everything's connect that's right and it's like whenever you take an ad and anti-inflammatory doesn't just go to where you heard it circulates everywhere you just notice that it's helping you or taking away the pain that Harry with the same thing is for the E CSR Indo cannabinoids system it all needs to be healthy and so balanced yeah it's all this really says is you have to have a healthy ECS if you don't want to have too much pain that's not what you're benefiting from you benefit from extra pain so Brian when I deal with doctors and I'm talking them especially traditionally trained doctors guess what neurologists intro medicine will be like how there's no science on Mike there is so much science I will ship every day there's so much but you gotta like knuckle down and read articles like that okay there's no science that says this cures this disease right but there is science it says on a cellular level this is happening which is probably why it might help or may help or could help or whatever term you want to use because unfortunately I think in traditional medicine which is why they go to sunflower shop to get some advice to get some education most of the doctors or just the busy the referring to either what was the last conference I went to which if you're been on its drug rep sponsored to the hilt and they're just kinda being detailed on what the last person can explain to them or their doing things out of habit so a lot of this there's not a lot of time to get really passionate about this one thing I will learn deep into it and then you start realizing I've got I've said this before but anytime you want any articles I've teamed up with a graduate student and we share this Mengele account we can love it me and I got we got over 10,000 downloaded articles I had to laugh because it's like you know I will never get through that now without talking like 1930 that's right I'm up to date stuff. He published all the time and people say unless it makes it to its sensationalized on good morning America or something most people don't ever hear about a lot of this cool stuff I'll call up some of the scientists and elders before that I read their article on like fascinated everywhere you go with it now oh they lost their NIH funding and they had to close the lab or whatever that but yet the research is just amazing and you know some far sharper lease we personally for sure we try to network with a lot of doctors because we know they don't get time to do those things and that's why were always trying say hey send them over here will educate him or not there to try to sell them something is not were not commissioned were not trying to push supplements on you were to try to educate you when the doctors don't have time to do that is like you said it's your busy the busy so it's important to really get as much education can that's what we pride yourself on our whole steps that way yeah it's the you know it's the frustrating thing to see somebody come in with a whole bag of supplements and it's all from Sam you know I worst enemy Dr. Alden Oprah every time they speak about a supplement we get a flood of people that come in the store and 90% of the time we got a tell of this is it for you this is they think it's a one-size-fits-all just because they said it and so it's a love-hate relationship is for sure but we have to really we turn people away more on supplements that are being touted or marketed from certain celebrities especially sure you know because it's not is not for everybody and that's what we want to make sure that was really one of the problems that we run into when we lots are trying to lose it is so different than the mechanism so unique very similar to the amount of knowledge people have a CBD that when we go to like we go to the IFN conference you know there's a lot of really good functional medicine manufacturers but they're just kind of moving around similar ingredients into whatever fancy name you have if you want a white label that's right so one of the big hurdles is to first educate will know this is the problem you have we can fix it because of this this is doing in a completely unique way and then know the answers I Marta I Marty on a probiotic I just spent 20 minutes explaining about it but I have a searcher to think about the early days of auction deal whenever we number the sum of the first marketing material was explaining what type of bloating because people didn't even understand say people several people didn't understand what we meant by this you true bloating and in and being mediated by methane production or whenever people thought that John Teal would cure all constipation we found that when none and it's actually permitting induced constipation it has actually nothing to do with opioid induced constipation so I think even so Dr. Oz had to go in front of Senate committee yeah yeah, taken to taking the task of blood very well they sure did mean it's sometimes they just talk I don't I really don't know how show operates you know how the elbows products get on the shows but well it's I think all of us in this room realize that like if you're a mean just talk about something so anybody is regular and I'm pretty sure I'm not wake up over the night before I sit with my kids on the bottom are then this morning going over articles which was about on the Reddit looking at the euro Denmark: brings Texas you know Dr. Rogers shows up and he's got people just himself in a dry Teleprompter so there poor guy I mean I know it's not like he has the time either to be reviewing all this literature and stuff that's true but you know it that's what sorta gives our industry a bad rap sometimes because now you got 50 people who were never taken are now taken something that they may really not need and that's technical subissues I get it so well so it's an educational issue I know exactly when Oprah or Dr. Oz says something because that'll be the first to be the 10th question I get that degree and I'm like okay Mike you have to watch the summer have to watch these episodes just so I know what that's what we have to do to get by customers in a day in the Nelson were on the watch Dr. Oz at night to figure out what he was saying and why you saying that word that information is coming from that's exactly right yet I am this celebrity status that will bring something that did to the taillight to the forefront and it happens in all industries all details before Michael Jackson had his issue with propofol I didn't have any patients who ever knew what in the world I was talking about but probably what would you say 25% 50% of the people that we have before I put them to sleep for the four procedure they say oh the Michael Jackson sauce every every day and it's not their fault but that's that's the impression that they got inserted that celebrity influence is real well they and it's not just that I mean there they sell advertising all the stuff so they don't just stop at the show me that he's got his magazine's gesture so this is a big massive machine I was talking to Eric before the sergeants I was in the middle of watching this Netflix special boot the big hacker something like that were chasing well it's it's all about how Cambridge America manipulative Facebook does is why Zuckerberg had to go in front of the Senate committee and all that right you just like oh my gosh we are just little ponds me to manipulate us in that so many different ways so many ways that's so true and that's why it really boils down we start our level is that our main goal is gotta be to educate the client you know as much as possible and you in the end of 5 to 30 minutes that we got spent time with them on the floors try to give as much that's really that's really what I want to get into is how the sunflower shop and stores like it because you we are just here in Tarrant County drink with the sunflower shop but we were talking in the last half-hour why is it that tell you he almost see from the West Coast and almost in a diagonal line down to Texas the proliferation of stores similar to yours and then we move over to the East a few states and just don't see them quite as much and it kinda correlates with where we say some of the worst health is found whenever we do no an analysis of which states unfortunates have the highest rates of obesity etc. there's there's a service that you're providing and a couple other industries are providing that are born out of the lack of good information in there trying to find good places to get good products on talk about whenever we get back your Brian I got to where he got what sunflower shop is doing to fill those holes in the community and foreclose out don't forget like and share a gut check project go to get check project.com you will go and connect us there let us know that you have liked and shared in course you can be entered into the next contest don't forget if you want this last month will be emailing you by the end of the week seen on this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun clear spoony this hour from Townhall.com, the best way forward on healthcare Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden says it's not the plan being offered by rival Pamela Harris there will your paycheck during last night's debate Harris criticized Biden healthcare blueprint for everyone in America you are in your own people people's access to healthcare in America running for president cover send candidates on the CNN stage last night 10 others debated Tuesday night Heritage foundation's Genevieve Boyd says there's one big issue working against any Democrat hoping to unseat Pres. from Mary Ron when people are feeling good about where they are what variables one. Building background want to be able to deepen their family the son of Osama bin Laden said to have followed in his late father's terrorist footsteps is reportedly dead I'm so bin Laden apparently killed sometime in the past two years one person was killed five others hospitalized following a massive explosion and fire in Lincoln County Kentucky overnight natural gas pipeline blew up a Navy pilot still missing after jet crashed during a training mission yesterday over death Valley search for the pilot continues on Wall Street to shower the Dow is off about 72 points the S&P ahead 11 NASDAQ up 66 more on the stories@townhall.com I never forgotten apparel is more than just a premium women's and men's clothing line it's a movement to remind us to where American-made and serve those who serve us our heroes never forgotten apparel gives 20% of their total sales to nonprofits that support homeless veterans and off-duty firefighters and 50% to individual veterans and firefighters in need nationwide checkout never forgotten apparel.com use promo code Matt and ATT and get 15% off your purchase why have thousands of aspiring authors teamed up with Christian faith publishing to publish their blog because Christian faith publishing is an author friendly publisher who understands that your labor is more than just a book we provide authors freedom and flexibility throughout the publishing process professional book editing award-winning design and some of the highest royalty structures in the publishing industry and is always you will retain 100% of the rights to your book I was looking to find a company that I could trust one that assisted in the editing process completely Christian faith publishing will publish market and sell your books in all major bookstores and online booksellers as well especially Christian bookstores call for your free author submission kit 800-978-4812 800-978-4812 800-978-4812 that's 800-978-4812 Dr. Kim Brown here a host of project with my cohost Eric Rieger I've seen in my practice that I'm trying to is a whole lot more than just a floating product yes it is a whole lot more than just exploding because of the polyphenols that you find in Alicante what are some of these polyphenols do these polyphenols help you have more energy and polyphenols are great sounds like it's helping a lot more people than just loading go to let my family.com/I start the second hour at episode 19 get a project with host Dr. Ken Brown Amir Krieger and we are doing today with Brian Bradford of sunflower shop real quick before you get too far don't forget love my Tammy.com/spooning pickup your own the 20 or you go to branch shop similar shop I challenge everyone to this challenging storm to shop and commit to go into some flower shop to go about trying to forgo to let my tummy.com/spoony is exactly right discount we got a little low show special get you can also like and share the program the podcast got check project.com and you can also find us at YouTube search get to project and you can go to the page and liking look it does look at Dr. Brown in the video you can even see that Brian showed up and much nicer clothes and waited for a coat restart episode wanted tuxedos and we've just gone downhill that's where your body right now – we got a costume shop three warrants and they came in just as a hot dog one time to find the episode that is now it is elegiac well I'm quite sure I hate to break this to we did a whole show and silicide and that he thought he was dressed as a hotdog the whole time flow show I was like you. It's it's about suicide yeah oh yeah I didn't know know know know like I could hear sound like and I could that could you not get I wait to hear Seneca to sound even when I'm still there which is which before we get into a lot of questions I have for you about how your journey with this and some Photoshop and how you help your community you know there's there's a lot of stuff there's a really good chance that psilocybin will be either a therapeutic drug or even over-the-counter product and not too long really things early oh there's some really cool research coming out mainly on depression opioids that comes thing for his part for your project we should hook him up with the Dennis even he would mean the applicable science from Hector Institute would be interesting I think in the chemical what was cool about you is that you're also a grocery store teacher so you do a whole show on sulci than the go does this habit you like jet Philip taken the lens billet portobello have a behind-the-scenes GMO products yet what we had we had a mushroom expert on cold Cooper read and he was describing how you can grab the and he was using the different terms of the mushroom and you can tell the silicide and content based on how it turns purple fastening really that is fascinating that I'm so into mushrooms right now not just the trippy mushrooms but how complex have been massive of a kingdom this is it so interesting he forages for mushrooms and he can say which ones are edible which ones are also all the so they don't become an oncologist or at least one professional trading the mycology acumen of exec with a yellow you're barely what he's referring to Dennis McKenna's a few years ago where pale you effectively showed up with microphones and just put them up in the air B&B that we are at just happen to be that the Godfather of psilocybin mushrooms who is a PhD in mycology really the him and his brother wrote a book on how to grow magic mushrooms when they were in college and it's like the Bible still so he hung out with us for like two hours we just did just geek out on mushrooms and fastening the therapeutic side of it that O'Brien was what is what really got my attention and before he came on to tell us even some of the cool stuff was just the data they had some hindrance to the blaze and is in Idaho and they had people smoking cessation for instance one but six months and 91% success rate what was even more astounding was it five years it's well over 60% smoking cessation 60% got really sick 64 – 16 change massive like that is massive like when we talk about the what's the drug that people take to get off that 00 Chantix Chantix that's like 35% at six months really that's what their standard is right now and this is studies are coming well that's the study of the half-truth Institute new studies are coming out of Johns Hopkins looking in the getting very similar results while it's just it just shows that there's a lot of things that we have left uncovered that's for sure and mother nature that probably could help with disease states and their doing the research on the witches are super exciting that it's very exciting survive for you to get where we are at some flower shop today you let us know you were born in Oklahoma they did what town and not a true okay those are unders six months I think you go to because by six so I can still consider myself to be a Texan guy yeah Dr. Tinker Air Force Base my guy was in the Air Force at the time house I was born there in Oklahoma think is $4.36 is what I cost him so to achieve better cost them a lot more later on their dad to remove the text structure that and gosh my background you want to know RB I got the military back in the know 89 to 93 is when I served as holes in the purse go for French Army nice Army yard mighty preservice appreciated the what got me interested I guess really in health of my first duty station was actually military intelligence duty station knew that from 89 to 93 9380 993 so a friend of Rich Hagedorn patriot leaders liquor with eight anyway they started a veterans organizations that are doing pure whiskey vodka held as we have heard okay I were just about hundred first airborne at that exact same time that really is I was and I was in college he was the was doing that one yeah well yeah you do the exact same thing that you did he was paratrooper that's awesome and I was a paratrooper I dumped more radio operator but I got to be stationed in the military told units not love the detective work oh I was there me all the information coming in trying to sorted and disseminate that to the higher command so forth that's what got me interested in going a I wouldn't mind being in the FBI one day guess what I really wanted to educate I think I've always want to be in law enforcement we are not but my second duty station was a medical and so actually when we went to the Gulf War I was in a medical unit we sort of picked up no bodies and things as we went through the way and love the medical side and soft like me don't want to do this so I set soon as I get the military I went through EMT school I went to the police academy and that's I was just driving that way to really be BBB FBI agent one day is my ultimate goal and then that God had other plans for me I guess in the your 9093 my dad was building the store in Colleyville and need some help putting up shelves and so what wells waiting to get on the four Police Department I went over there to help them out and I met my now wife at that point time to and so I had to make a decision on do I want to pursue the law enforcement career or stay with the store in that I actually stayed with the store and the way I look at though is that what drove me in the military of the military intelligence in the medical side it really shake need to become what I now call myself the body detective in the sense of saying instead of trying to catch criminals and investigate the criminal side investigating the body and that's where I turned that attention focused to so I'm in nerdy but hard to as well too I met you I guess you're the bigger nerd I get out I thought I was a pretty big nerd but other data that's what how I got into what I'm doing it now been doing 25 years on a serious note even though I've been raised around all my life my grandmother Kelly is is way more than the business to you because it some of the stuff you chaired Athena passes that you went ahead became a full certified clinical health coach from Nieves Dr. Sears Dr. Sills wellness Institute damning estimate and he does that with his it's him and his son Caray I think his son Primus runs most of it now okay so overseas log things that are out there what's his lesion MD oh yeah Dr. Sears been around for long time to as well to me was when the leaders pioneers lower research it was out there so that's why voice inspected is Institute why chose that when out of the millions of health coaching colleges are all associated passes both UC Irvine and he was out South Carolina yes Southern California and Florida is for the old AutoCAD not sure but he's been around everywhere but I followed a lot of his information through the years what was it like in knowing that you wanted to simply just be a better resource for your customers and basically who became your clients to have someone to talk to what was it like going through that level of protocol and probably going even well beyond what you could even offer to store and then knowing that you take this information back to people what what was it like to to make the transition in a store setting but it was anybody else in the simpler shop doing that at the time know it really wasn't I mean were were always looking for ways to better ourselves a course as you so any training to an information because you know in the health industry there wasn't a lot especially in the early 70s and 80s there was a lot of information going out there you just basically most these colleges who were teaching nutrition were just taken books written by other doctors and we still developed on the pendant around the server so forth it was a lot of factual information even though it been around for thousands of years so it was it was just a way of trying to fit understand how to give the customer the information about how does this work a lot people always asked me say what school did you go to know how do I get into nutrition and so forth and I always say start by learning how the body works first before you learn what vitamin C yeah I think it's so important we don't learn enough about our bodies and our systems may look how much the CBD is plain on all these different systems in our body now if we understood the systems more it makes a lot more sense to why you do this enough that when we understand the body and so I always tell people go do your AMP classes and learned the medical side biology and chemistry learn those things first is once you understand that the environment sees easy trek to the body and what was going on then we'll look at it but so when you watched your dad and your grandmother run the store obviously he said he started in 1970 no scrolling on the shy carpet in the story but she was she was huge and innovative the idea that she wanted to to introduce this to the citizens of Tarrant County and Fort Worth so she makes that leap and then you saw them progressively to the point where you said your dad was opening up now what is gigantic location appearing in Colleyville but then you took it as step further and said okay I I you apparently were able to recognize there was a need you knew the people returning to the people that ran the store for more and further education how did you get the insight you know what I'm going to I'm going to go out seek an external education source and and take this to another level because now my experience a good one and some flower shop is nobody that's not supremely educated especially in section after working in and that sets it apart and if you want to have big grocery store that's it's a stocker and there in a walkie order something is but that's as far as you know Jeff that lie was thumbing I was find it fascinating that the person that gets first crack at most my patients is the whole foods I will personally know Ken this was as really amazed me over the years is that no 1015 years ago we were the last person someone would walk into the store looking for something to help what can be fixed before whether Dr. Starbucks or anybody else we're the last person to see now that whole paradigm is shifted downward the first person to come see before they head out to the doctors and that's that's it's not hard but that's what forces to become more edge cannot was gonna say that that is I mean you have an obligation to make sure that I was right in that store represents you every really well I think that I'd say whole foods because I think it's change the model changeover since I sold Amazon I don't think you have the passionate people don't think you have and you know that's if you can get first crack at him everybody should be called to work at your store which is that job that's right even in our hiring process were not were not focused on necessary just knowledge per se but to me it's about passion to help others to have empathy and compassion to really want to help someone that's what we hire on first is our first priority knowledge we can teach passion can't sure that that's a big thing that's why we we really put herself in her staff being that no compassion to when you walk in you don't feel good you know we work and try to help you do you have what is the most common is complete on the spot what you think is the most common thing that your customer comes in and ask you for asking of your employees undersea digestion digestion is probably still most asked questions whether starts as bloating returns and IBF students was it always that's a great question I would say probably so okay okay in some way or another course food quality which much better way back when you know that it is today sure so I can't say you had probably as much of the upper G.I. she did lower G.I. problems back then now nowadays share without a doubt it's it's from top to bottom digestive issues is probably our number one sought after issues that's really interesting because sewed the non-GMO stat when you think the first time it may be different for you beat being in that industry but was the first time you really took no non-GMO was a move like a late in life like I mean we didn't we talk about this it's not like my parents were talking about I mean my mom with TV dinners occasionally hungry man TV dinner that's right and I how is it so it's I guess that was but something happened because we were talk about this like even in Europe if I go to Europe I don't have the digestive issues of what I'm gluten intolerance will fight gluten him and have some issues I go to Europe and have gluten and it's really kinda fascinating so I don't I'd be very curious to talk to somebody in that industry I don't think our model works the way it does there they have little pharmacies all over the place was no real Walgreens and CVS on every corner because I really need something and I'm not really sure that the market is that is is that big in Europe as it is here like if you had a sunflower shop that would you be seeing the level of people coming through I don't know I mean we even still carry a lot of supplements that are extra still prescription in Germany per se over the week that's releasing the law that come down I actually lived in Germany for couple years in the military and so your write up the homeopathic was a prescription we can bite over the shoulder counter here while so it is amazing that you know their standards are deathly probably a lot better and ours in many ways a minibikes it's interesting note that if you look at developed versus underdeveloped countries so underdeveloped countries may have different types of diseases and things like that that we don't necessarily have to worry about here but one thing that's completely inverted is the rate and climbing growth of autoimmune disease that's for sure and it's specific and almost always ends up starting in the gut right so I was just looking at some stats on something that we were sending out on behalf of John Teal to to handful dietitians that we have contact with and currently the EU and it's all in such prominent every country but it's the EU conglomerate and the United States by far in a way for developed countries lead in rate of growth autoimmune disease 10% by year currently for the EU and 8.5% by year for the United States China is still around 5% and if you compare that with the amount of China's gigantic yes there's lots of areas of China they just don't get high produced foods so they probably not exposed to the refined foods etc. and they're probably getting their growth of the autoimmune explosion in the highly populated areas so their number gets balanced out but the truth is is that the highly processed foods the GMO products are ultimately damaging what it is they were putting into our body exactly exactly I be curious Dr. Brown which would trip you one why do you think autoimmune is increasing here in the US I pulled up something here where were seeing it in the Toradol disease and autoimmune entities it's exploding in India so when I was in medical school and I was a fellow if somebody from India came to you and they had ilio inflammation you had to prove that it wasn't tuberculosis now it's one of the fastest growing autoimmune diseases and so I'll I think it really kinda comes down to that we have well we know that there's many things that can create inflammatory processes and it all begins with intestinal permeability early to get correct there's a lot of information to show that this is what turns on our immune system our immune system is there to fight things and so when it does really get a chance to find anything and everything sterilized but more importantly were spraying and antibiotic on the crops and so you know when you spray glycoside on something and the FDA says well it's safe because we can't find it in your blood what nobody is talking about is that your own bacteria do it's called the circulate reaction and they convert it to something that is not safe so that's well it's one of the problems and then round up the same things considered a class one carcinogen but we don't really care that were spraying all is going to sit everywhere there has to be correlation with that I wholly agree totally. I think that's a big issue including GMO's and everything else I know it's accumulation of many different problems are going on but it's our food supplies doubly toy different than some like you said gluten in Europe is to wait up the good the US right now and we have this thing called epigenetic's where you maybe walking around with the gene and if something takes it on then that's what allows for this to happen maybe the northern European descent of all of us were walking around with a with the higher potential to do and you could flip a switch one day and end up going from your perfectly fine to pursue activities I bumped into a friend of mine which shocked me that I saw him and he is late 50s 60 in his written insulin pump was like oh what's going on is like yeah out of nowhere type I diabetes adult line Delisle onset autoimmune diabetes what yeah so I said and he's like a doctor eats clean and everything is very into health is like what in the world happened totally normal and then just how your body starts producing antibodies to the islet cells in the pancreas and that we always said that a child could never get type II diabetes was adult onset diabetes with a genetic risk factor insulin insensitivity and we always said that if you have type I diabetes you're going to get it as a child that's an autoimmune disease man that anymore at two diabetes happened in third grade and I is the first case of ever heard of that probably happens more often but I never really thought about that was like holy cow that's a fun autoimmune disease basically no autoimmune diseases fun Soto and I think that's last week briefly discuss this that I'm I'm really big into bowel protection big surprise was or why last week we covered a couple different things but one of them that we didn't get into too much detail with with that study will help Pro anthocyanins area which are polyphenols of the complex polyphenols actually were shown to help with intestinal permeability in our learning how it does that now are seeing that grievant tea extract forms a gelatinous film around deleted in so that may be why people don't have as much of a reaction to it so it if you if you're eating a highly processed diet and you continually exposing your body to these things and you continue chipping away at it by having chemicals, sprayed on it how to set yourself welcoming it's it's hard to get away from it but if you have the genes then you're exposed like this then you're kind of set yourself up or something like that but even even then people that are trying to eat clean and do all this can still pop up something there's there's more to it are we to clean that's how Eric was getting at is now to report injuries could point you know they they eat dirt they expose themselves to stuff my biomass while that research is getting booming as well it's Crazy really think about what life is saved and it was okayed by the FDA to use in it just like you said they they presented some markers and say well it's not detectable in the blood or where or whatever tissue right who's to say that they even knew that was the right markers to look for because obviously it wasn't but what's even more scary as the people who authorized him to get to say they clap the sated safe is genuine and generally legislator is not scientifically trained whatsoever may say well they said that the marker that we should be concerned about that what they think is okay isn't there to show that it's being contaminated must be safe that unfortunately is who is driving the decisions on what is and is not safe for us to consume is a public and then it just gets past you guys try and it does and sometimes at some point you know that someone is just not being completely honest on what we actually should be looking for you don't think it's a glyphosate safe it did make my house blow up well it did make house blowout it must be fine but it's not what were looking for so I guess oftentimes I can have you chasing red herring it is a going to be applicable to what could actually damaging to you well yeah and so that's that's one of the important things is that it's not necessarily Army it's capitalism is at its purest amine chair wheat wheat we don't necessarily think or care what is the most healthy and beneficial thing what is the cost of that how are we going to feed the low socioeconomic areas of the country which is kind of that south you talk about where you're like they don't have the sunflower shop so they don't have that is not an infrastructure to support that I just tell my patients looked if you can just not open a bag and eat that would be probably I would go a long way so what you think you have brought me only about two minutes tilted till this next break but what you think would take for some of the states I don't have that, access to have some flower shop in them what what why why do you think it's not prevalent in some of their demand amine education demand that these wearables down to ensure not mean we do not teach anything in school systems about how to be healthy right one. Not even about your body per se be a legacy and AMP Klassen as a sophomore you're a freshman in high school that would be nice I think we should learn to do more of that district this sparked the the attention of kids wanting to understand okay how do we make this body of the system healthier sure I think it starts aground the kid that she going to importune kids or even just like the parents are and so this trend is can we keep going until we break that cycle somehow is most as most of the sugar in the US still produced along the Gulf Coast at his dentist it just occurred to me if you have sugar land upset Houston which was where Imperial started but I mean you get sugar bowl in New Orleans I was thinking that in some instances industry basically takes over the population they also lit a cigarette and a pointer to hear a semi night maybe that's in part you say the education these these types of conversations don't don't arrive there because other dependent depending upon foreign economic livelihood that's right it's the same thing like when you really pinned when Reno living down in Texas or outside of Texas City which is gigantic refinery and only talked about air quality is purely bonding moment I want to talk about certifications and how they choose product of your simpler shops we will be back here and just like a chair to get to project.com if you are trying to quit drinking or doing too many drugs listen to me you don't know me and will never meet I had a problem like you want I drank and used a party a little too much till he got out of control and almost ruined my life I realize I needed help to fix my problem before it totally destroyed me if you tried to fix your drinking and drug problem and you know you can't do it alone you need to call the national treatment advisors they'll immerse you into a 30 day program to replace your old habits with new habits and totally change your life and if you have PPL private health insurance the entire program may 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in terms of health is being driven because people are looking for and that's really what brines said about some bar shop I mean the fact that you said that the paradigm shift is taking place with a start with you now yes then they go to the doctor your fantastic position we are in and that's why were trying to make even more connections with the doctor directly say hey we depending on what the customer's needs are what they are with their path the goal is we know what doctors try to reform out to build Shabbat support system of we can support them nutritionally you do what you are doing the medical side it's a great networking and they like it because they don't have to worry about trying to figure out all this nutrition stuff yeah yeah totally you were talking in between holes that man just go ahead and save that yellow what were you talking about somebody from Ankeny Iowa yes we know's people from Ankeny and one of those that people shared with me that the founder or developer someone had a serious stake in development and use of life estate which turned into round up lives in that area gigantic house etc. etc. etc. and of course that's when they go lots of corn lots of wheat and the first I would say the primary perception of of that achievement was this is great we are building up food sources etc. etc. and I think over time even at same persons I may not of been's the greatest discovery ever and I'm just it's interesting because I think people get insulated by what they know what they're rounded with yeah whether surrounded with it's not everyone's fault but I mean look at that minutes now that Mississippi rivers contaminated with fertilizer and glyphosate and its neighbor paying a price war in the Gulf by the time the water reaches there so it everything comes at a significant cost to the left unchecked will when I was a medical school at University of Nebraska the Nebraska if you look at a map it's called the lymphoma belt where it goes all the way through Nebraska and Iowa and you know we we worked with a nurse from Iowa when she moved down here standard of developing leukemia and that was unfortunate while she got through it so Jesus was the highest cases of lymphoma been shown it's they called the lymphoma belt okay the lymphoma leukemia belt so much so that it was the first autologous blood transplant was done at University of Nebraska and it's at one of the better medical schools to go if you're going to be studying blood-borne disorders and transplant so including liver transplants both but autologous blood transplant where they spent down the irradiate you they take away all of this and they give it back to you that's kind of all started at University Alaska you know out of necessity breeds invention sure that's the lymphoma but right there but that makes sense because it's an agricultural dozer to agricultural states that serve a great purpose make no mistake about were feeding a lot of people were feeding you know animals and everything but your exact right we didn't anticipate that this I pulled up I was talking about that Mengele night when I hadn't took the liberty of just typing glycosides of these are one of 10,000 articles that we have downloaded and it's also you can just see the all these articles are there that's a lot and things like that stuff nobody talk about this comes down to this glyphosate-based herbicide exposure affects gut microbiota causing anxiety and depression in mice while belittling up right there so oh okay report the glyphosate induced cell death through a pop product and auto fabric mechanism so that is affecting our spouse on the silo level it's time to reassess current safety standards for glyphosate why are we still see Impala to round up local hardware store I doubt now is crazy but having a well I get neighbors that don't they don't know what we know trim nearly after just spraying and I got another neighbor is like I can't like they don't only what what I do so in my neighborhood build all these different companies true green in these different to guarantee that your that your grass is green and the to get rid of the weeds and but don't let pets or anybody walk on it afterward on okay will why that doesn't sound like it's safe here with you bring a true green and think that would be a sponsor so not to worry but they might want to bet that we could be like one of those returning to like some crazy political show we are in the hell she is there to smoke at our next Bowser McDonnell will set out out as much about Barbara is like an episode of theocracy watch Pres. Camacho true green did come and service our yard one one summer because he tells them to get the organic package and a person felt really confident in it but I don't I don't now with their organic package I don't know that's because they explain it in the US then maybe it was so you learn they said that if you paid X amount that it was going to consist of this and then we also asked is the question the candidate said no can then can the pets run around on they said sure but even looking back on it as some things have been revealed about that process and what is and isn't the organic lawn treatment and I just don't think that it was as advertised I could be wrong but was even more concerning is they said they were able to trace the contaminants that would happen in an organic package they're using the same equipment to distribute the that's right and howling so that cross-contamination though I feel like I'm compared some my friends are probably hypersensitive trying to find the right answer even economic stakes insist going to build it and add since they just decided that I don't know why we care so much about a fruitless crop anyway we waste on her water on throwing grass it doesn't I don't know if this is true now but I just got on pesticide watch.org so it is that it is the Internet without any real background check with Dr. Google gather nuts they're not too keen on the chemicals that they use will to set that way and well live and learn I don't stick with a better course yet you know say it's it's one of the things I think they could've done a great job back it was all over I kind of felt like I might've been picked on some that really wasn't delivering what they said the return sure so that happens that happens I bet when people come to pitch things at some flat all the time all what you think are the best protocols and what was some of the pitfalls it shall found out weren't working for you on vetting companies that you do business with will mean one of the biggest I guess learning experiences during our years was you know manufacturers are would come into the store trying to pick give users sales pitch our product euros sounds wonderful it's peeling all this is doing the things doing that sounds great but they never could put a certificate of analysis or let things in the label at the time to start wonder you know when you start consumers were actually taken and did get those results what they were claiming that we start asking questions as was long time ago course and we started on what we need to know what's in it because like you said there still all kinds of companies were being tested in their ingredients and they don't have what they say in their they get 5000% of too much of something that could be is like that all everywhere and that's that's a big challenge we told the story about how I sent the original base product Cabral Cho to a deconstruction lab I did leave this part out where he said well it's really interesting because you just send me chemical what we usually get his competitors sending in something and they want me to run for something I said look what you mean is like well like if I get a male enhancement pill and will look at it because I will almost always find you note drugs in it and they just manage substances quote root yellow Viagra sildenafil or whatever your those those drugs civil almost always see that and the girls will see in weight loss product will will find so I don't necessarily do deconstructed him to look for something that is typical found in these and that's what they get to the point so that original article that I brought up today about the bump disarms that that's what they look for the like oh there's a bunch of of different products doing so they start randomly checking it in up bunches of products that were supposedly for health performance had the Psalms in there so it's to the point with bit to go through trends work because of your competition is doing it and then note starts getting the whole really got a business over to bend the rules a little is it really been in the rules are you coming it just gets weird – – and it's it's a wide variety of ingredients are out there I mean a lot people asked why can I just buy this from the grocery store or Costco or Sam's they got some good things there don't get me wrong but there's a lot about things to you just cannot understand what to look for those things and so that's why again some partial prides itself on make sure we got the certificate analysis to get into self quality on labels all that's so important now to protect the consumer how many did you have a lot of product is the NSF label mean a lot to you it does it us but one of her favorite companies Bluebonnet regular sugar land Texas and be there they got some the best no qualifications on their label I've ever seen any company to really a lot of NSF certifications so on the especially for sports yeah that's exactly what we use with you are trying to sell things kicked off to us because we had interest from a dietitian it was caring for players at the Oakland Raiders many resent said that he said I want to start getting out on tip to the coaches into the wives of the players that's that's right what about the players he said I can't do it to get into the survivor's rights and it's awesome what the heck is that and then it wasn't long after that we began really petitioning some Photoshop to carry out John Teal and I never forget that that you and Kim if you said if you have that that's that's a separate building yeah that's a separator it's also interesting is its definite separator to you to separate us but the general public is willing to stand with that little symbol is so if you have an athlete if you're if you know of anybody who's doing athletics you got you tell them to look let NSF certification and it's just it's very bold sits right out say you know we we pay a lot of money to have third parties look at this and make sure that were not doing anything to the survivor support markets actually mean that the it's okay that's not well-known because it's actually only like five or six years old that's right this specific part of golf and so do you see that dad especially so in Colleyville you'll have lots of young parents with kids who are going up very competitive in sports in this area do you notice that they do start to learn to gravitate towards these cutter learnings but is still early on for the public to do understand NSF and what's going on GMO verifications and although the certifications are on the bottles and why they pale a bit more for it because of those reasons sure that's important that you're getting a good clean product the manufactures clean and not sweep things in the bathtub like we talked about earlier so it's it it's forest is very important try to translate that to the consumer is the next big step now it's about the education they look for the certifications on your label because it does mean something it is so interesting that somebody it's funny how we will cut corners at certain times so if you got your super elite baseball player in his high-level high school player and is going to be possibly get a scholarship going to college and then you spent all this money getting up to that point and then going well I can get that from Cosco that is an NSF certified that time to get that creatine from this place over here to get whatever it's like you worked all the way up to this don't start skipping now it just happen to a tennis player I'm tied up alternates on remember what her name was she just got been for two years because they found a substance in a multivitamin she was taken in remission the brand but it's you pray pulled up that is that would they'll be talk about my house yes it's a prominent brand out there and they were they have the sports multi-she was taking had a banned substance was found in a camper within greediness can you find out when you see it but is deftly it was a problem she's got suspended. Holy cow's it looks like it's a but we sold the popped up first she's suing a vitamin firm that is right she gets over this she's an Argentine wow what a main what a crippling thing that she didn't ask for you now and that's that's what happens unfortunately when you take things you can't believe in it certification or just lack certification altogether what yet what walk-ins looking that part of the me ask you you mentioned certificate of analysis and you know that I know you did some of our shop is been on the leading edge of making CBD available to the community high-quality CBD that now we've we've gone through the hard steps of finding a manufacturer we can trust that would produce legitimate COAs what we discovered about four months ago is a high a high likelihood of people imitating COAs what it what has sunflower shop had to do to guard themselves against faux COAs info certification we just do our due diligence chair I really tried on the cover because there's not a whole lot you can really do besides you go test yourselves into the lab and test yourself if you need to try to verify their COAs himself sure that's been done sometimes dry it just we want to make sure we have any doubts but most number always gonna stick with those high quality manufacturers that we have no doubts about that in the CBD world that these longer companies popping up so like up as we haven't heard up and up which is George L should be your CBS morning which looks awesome you mentioned you got to manufactured location yes have you ever offered to go to someone's location there like it's called just now. Yet Italia through a catfish type thing have you ever encounter with her like well give us give us couple weeks and will have it all put together an exhibit in Canada question: all you the minibus we do what the report on top of it because there were no labor standards when they come in or to anyway they're going to build have to present the campers and right there there there is a very good likelihood will never see him again so me that you could have your information pretty fast our buyers again do you know we have a once a month meeting with new Benders or try to get into the store so they go through all that and just today it's crazy you know they're very busy at what they do in the research side of it what about their long-distance customers and consumers of yellow yellow maintained or developed clientele that grip here are lived here in Tarrant County lived away and if kept in touch with you just continue buying from all the time by me not coursing on the certified nutritionist to not have a counseling practice but overall young fellow clients move away so we keep in connect all of the country now we do a lot of mail outs and shipping and so forth are websites getting better were trying to improve it did make it look more friendly friendly now I'm on it now you know why you don't look at artists as the leader of all wet because if you want to see what it what two-minute providers can do when they build their own website obviously just got our day after we start hiring people to help us out you put all these pieces together the the common theme is not bad for a gastroenterologist building a website but it's really bad but that button it's cute but yeah we were still try to connect with customers all across the country now is what we really want to be no outside her bubble was what were trying to do in her next phase and in doing more like this podcast videos you know virtual counseling sessions the whole worksites awesome so that diagnosing podcast topics that you all will do address digestive issues that you address thyroid issues us on theirs's various topics on CBD can't die all the effects and then when you handed Dr. Browning to talk to and into the community outreach lecturing series the thing I really like about is whenever y'all reach out to the people that are on your email list you began promoting right away we got this coming up go ahead and reserve your spot now that kind of interaction it it seemed to make as you can see other spots fill out the whenever you first kind exposed the thought process of how simple our shop worked and you're going to make these things available where you are you nervous were you like man I hope people take it worse she always want to be like to hear his own way I mean we all be right but no is forcefully services that you can hire will outsource all those likes and so is missing that's what my dog's eye contact after zero there there was 700,000 people that attended that lecture he must've been a nightmare horrible yeah it's always a mute spot because we we we try to get back to our local community all the time you would work with large charities and so forth but trying to get let customers know what doctors what healthcare providers are in their own backyard it's it's always been our biggest challenge but it's been our biggest benefit because we network that brings up two things I just just occurred to me so we weave we seen the list that they have at some flower shopping on all different topics I can is hit on it but I want to me I know you have a great relationship with a lot of physicians in the immediate area but have you ever had one where you have a lecture series just for the areas physicians or healthcare providers is to come into to learn little bit just specifically that your store know we really haven't displayed more the judge of the Chamber of Commerce type level out okay done those okay with that I sent you guys were that usually is host at we have done the stores not a bad idea what about the other when they can't depart my mind is what about we were just talking about appearance of athletes I wonder if it would be a good community outreach program to have something where you basically talk about certifications that are applicable to people who have athletes in the family know that that's really all that sure would be me I would know a thing about it if it weren't if it weren't for just being exposed at this level so I had a 50 years ago I had a young man get admitted to the hospital and he was totally jaundiced and look like he was going in the liver failure and what in the world is going on and then start looking at what he did to his dual sport supplements and one of them had hormone and it which is exactly that tennis star got pop for really yeah and so I mean it's it's good not only not only may you be wasting your money if you don't get what's there but there was a recent study that what like 40% of a lot of the load of these different weight loss sports performance and sexual enhancement 40% of those had dangerous drugs in them I totally believe that I really do miss Jesus what category yet so you just know about you but you think as a dad you're helping your 19-year-old yelled go by the O*net income just tell the kids every week we get so many kids come into the store from the high school since were thrown by high school to meet her saying he can get the script and submit it to an educational battle for us in many ways we try to get into the school systems talked me the PTA clubs and eBay who will listen about hey this is way would be to be really educating these kids they don't need to be taken all these red bowls and high caffeine things that dealt dose of creatine not getting the water in their system to dehydrate themselves so into it and it's an educational battle but it's getting there how receptive are they when yellow go-ahead leads the school system itself not too big if we get two more the private organizations that were right I speak more at that were reaching more more glad I think that the school wouldn't be Matt and I'm not even surprised at the answer I was curious why I me I was somebody just to treat high school by teacher in the classroom of nutrition we would talk about health insurance and things which is great were see a little bit of that here they are but you're right as an overall umbrella of nutrition for school the government plate still there that means it as far as the food pyramid that they follow oh well don't believe in that as far as the umbrella in healthcare when I go when I'm working in the hospital and I'm on the cardiac rehab floor and I'm looking at what being served for the cardiac diet is that not amazing holy child crazy it is absolutely insane I went in on I to go early on the weekend couple weeks ago and I'm food-service person is bringing the empty trays out and with regularly collectible I like there's bags of Lays potato chips breakfast don't care who ate that I don't care if we just should not for that that's crazy that I truly agree and I don't want to in any way bashed dietitians on the certify nutrition is not a dietitian there is a difference or Texas but you know dietitians what their logos be placed together based on the food pyramid schemes and that's were going wrong that's not the dietitian's fault per se they have to follow those parameters what is a different string to I'm still confused by that because even as guest neurologist I don't see a big test the bottom line of it is that dietitians are taught that all nutrients can still come from food okay that's the only place we probably need to get them from certified nutritionist know we don't look at approved by the site and of course the food pyramid on top of that we we believe we do need a supplement to what the body is not already getting so that that's probably the baseplate lamest terms should put out there us so there's some great dietitians are open mind about site which is wonderful that don't miss refolded food pyramid scheme but it's just everybody's different in their basic molecular nutrient here and there were just always try to figure out what that is to help the body because supplements vitamins herbs minerals this matter do not heal anything is just the tools for the body to do it on so were trying to but that's why always tell my clients they were not here to treat disease by any means were looking at what systems are breaking down in the body that can cause the disease to happen the first place that that's a big point the big point which must have a funny little story a customer come in a couple months ago from a doctor center in the store and she says I need some sweet potato cream Sweet potato Creek out as to exactly what I said I said sweet potato curry Breck my brain going to Dr. all just talk about something else I don't know if we prayed out of the sweep and to do that so I was like my brain took about 30 seconds before I believed site ask the question what you said for and she goes will struggle my skin from hormones I sounds like all were in Texas sweet potatoes and while dams are the same thing looking for wild yam cream to help and natural progesterone production is what she was looking for a little creepy is what she called so of you know you're in Texas who sweet potatoes while the object through the same thing in Texas and let them know that it is wild wild yam seven estrogenic effect I do that's work that's where most your over-the-counter progesterone actually comes from is the welding fascinating I have little that it is cool and you're right growing up I thought that Ganz inserted was anything so thought they were different for long time I was given I was growing up I didn't know they were the same thing Texas enough but in other states that would hold true now there's actually different species of it yeah that actually inserts laser is a difference between a sweet potato and EM for save in Texas same thing man that whole hormone thing get similar patients are commonly consists it such big business the antiaging hall like they are with you and I'm not really decentered the largest in the US it's crazy because when I've talked to like real hormone doctors they just cringe when you bring that name because it's it's fact are you going to get a shot come back to each get a shot help and that's your body does operate like that you will not at all not at all I don't know what you do about that it's so that's permitted in CVD sales is what they're concerned about that's right I mean I know it just does not add up it all the Dowson round up on top of that gasket a perfect storm I don't know that you see it if it's it's unnatural it probably is this is it can't be good for you it just does not make sense you're right have some round up yourself about T shot and in deep some potato chips with olestra and well said last 4 ounce data I read both of this show now that's that's that said that's interesting will was much I tell people my definition of good health is just doing more good than bad that is that simple to me would know was to be perfect I'm not a tree huggers organic extremist and by any means sure it's about trying teach people just to do more good things in their life is not about having to change her life upside down necessarily but just keep taken steps to get there and that's what health is about it's a journey there always could be chasing it one way or another just thinking just have the thought go through your head real tried to add a vegetable to this exactly so could be that simple simple ending of this is big meant that people think it really costs a lot more to be healthy that's not true the truth is it cost a lot more to be sick it sure does the long side they actually mean if you just going to invest a tiny little bit more for a high quality product your body your life your sleep your everything for the most part is just simply going to be better so I guess you can decide if you want to spread that cost out over time by selecting better foods and shopping at something like sunflower shop or if you want to save a lot of money and then be hit with a big bill in your insurance doesn't cover your hospital stay later clearly at the image of the good Bill Davis's many years ago one of the pioneers of nutrition are camber exactly the exact words but she says every day you wake up with no decision do you want to improve health or do you want to become more sick and every decision about life is about that is that it is just going to better my health nurse is coming more sick what I'm putting on what I'm beating what I'm doing to my active in my city every decisions that way yes and ask you we got about a minute and 1/2 left that with all of the different clientele you come through what is it like when somebody who you saw probably at their hardest and Dave can run for the game it and cannot share the stories before and then suddenly they have an epiphany and Maeve rounded the corner and they attributed to what you've introduced him to do it somehow or not it's an amazing feeling him is is why I do what I do today still is that reward system of seeing a life change for the better you know would like you said there that weathers a switch that flips on weather was a nutrient weather is something heard it doesn't matter where it comes from it is just that if it improves your health but that's a blessing in its own way it really is out I love seeing people like change with the best we could see every day that's the beauty of this job you know we could see it every day of people coming in and say hey you give me this couple weeks ago it's amazing what is done I thought oh it's it's but again it still boils down to education you know just compassion for each other again well I sincerely appreciate places like the sunflower shop I certainly appreciate you dropping by to see us today of course golf golf represent ultra until well for little over two and half years and in one of the early people he deftly and deftly appreciated real quick for people to connect with you it's some flower shop.com that's with MPs and even go so far show.com two peas in any write out a thoughtless way to get a hold of us and then of course she had the podcast which is the healthy approach on podcasts which is almost the platforms of iTunes and so forth so yeah what were doing that to I need to get Joel my show someday will do it when your guy got check project number 19's in the book stuck around 19 great show we learn a lot thank you for doing what you do my math thank you this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun clear spoony are you hungry for the usual today or you ready to spice things up with the new Nashville hot brisket from firehouse subs with kicking up are slow smoked brisket Nashville high season is top with melted pepper Jack tangy slot served piping hot toasted corn bread roll yeah a cornbread roll see time what are your new Nashville hot brisket on the firehouse subs app today firehouse subs enjoy more subs save more lives husband and wife may kiss the bride connecting to care whenever you needed like video chatting with a doctor right from your phone so I don't need stitches thank you United healthcare health plan benefits may vary
Travis is a former collegiate team roper and bronco rider, that has found a career in relationship building and sales.
Incredible science review about polyphenols vs aspirin
Travis' experience and hobby with raising cattle
Team roping
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SERIOUSLY FUNNY examples of medical sales experiences, from erection pills, to pain relief side effects, to unexpected results from an experimental weight loss drug... You will love it!
Nancy husband and wife may kiss the bride connectivity care whenever you need video chatting with the doctor right from your phone so I don't need stitches thank you Dr. United healthcare health plan benefits may vary helps if I need to make their morning live show I was on so that out of the mud you Mary and for Larry where is Jeff when you need him for this is the gotcha project episode number 18 I McGregor with your host Dr. Ken Brown what's happening what's going on up so the writing were already up to this is fantastic were having some great responses I'm even like bumping into people that are looking us up that's a good show gut check project canalboat we are 18 why not 18 years not quite there love my tummy.com just who had knocked it out the bag lobectomy.com/spoony check that out if you would like to get your own Arbitron teal the reason why moving so quickly today is because we've got some studies to get to we've got an incredible gas from an industry that we don't always get to represent on the show that in a course is going to be Travis page 3 of Travis page on he is a drug rep but is also very interesting upward to talk about a lot of different topics but were not to talk specifics of anything know it is to be a general just Pharma thing when I can get him in trouble now is generic company will not be brought up is generic drug won't it's going to be really neutral so there you go Travis yeah Travis will will not reveal his company and I even asked him if I can rhyme it with other words said no idle whiteboard all the guts to hold it up with
he said it won't won't happen so that's about what is a lot of stuff but one of things I do want to talk about is the stories that you had being a grubber the stories that I've had through the years in training what's going on how the drug industry is changed in like this the regulations that have been placed so it's a wild thing because I didn't realize as a young person going to the doctor with my parents what why in our small town to Gainesville occasionally was somebody in a three-piece suit sitting amongst all of the people in the in the waiting room and they always seem to be holding pamphlets and couldn't wait to get in and they didn't have to have their name on the list and they would go back but a lot of things has changed since those days and the way that pharmaceutical representatives have to become educated how they represent to the physicians how they support the positions with their staff and patients etc. so there's so want to get into in a coursers lots of others lots of funny stories to go along with having a yeah a pharmaceutical rep but yes the big news in the big news happens to be in conjunction with the KPD health box and before we forget I wanted you to touch on the feedback that you got this last week and then what you have coming out is a little there's actually an updated change so we did the box opening last week with the KB of the health box but this is a really exciting thing this is a brand-new venture for us and for member box and they did an amazing job and I've had some great feedback my patients were to make big differences you met him boxing is a primary got box yesterday we sat was Sarah Jean and were building next month's box and were making it even better because more vendors are allowing their products to be part of member box you can build your own box once you get going this is really exciting I want to personally change the healthcare landscape naturally and allow people to really start changing things about themselves this pretty awesome because some of the feedback that we got from our patient just yesterday it was scope to received her first box and she said this is amazing I don't have to guess anymore and I thought that was really awesome to have yet another new element of a patient testimony it says this is helping me be healthier and saving money, the biggest thing about the boxes once you realize that there is that study that came out the chilled 79% of the stuff that you're buying at big-box stores or the Walgreens GNC late that article came out which showed that it did not have on the label what was arching the capsules so we took the liberty of going okay you look@thingslikeexamine.com consumer labs and you make sure that things are third-party tested then you realize okay what studies have been done that have actually shown O for instance tumor does do this or trunk teal can help in different ways we get the science to back it and we vetted the products and you're able to get it a huge discount so this particular box hundred $47 for some people that's that's out of range but a lot of people are spending to 5300 on supplements and you may just be throwing it away so hundred 47 to over $250 worth of vetted supplements one of the really exciting things is one of my patients her husband passed away of Alzheimer's disease right and she he was an artist and so she took his original art and she's made cards for basically blank cards thank you cards old-school member like instead of just texting somebody hey thanks that was awesome to catch you write thank you for doing whatever will on the back of it all the proceeds go to the Alzheimer's foundation so were you put that in anybody's box so our office purchased all of her cards and were to put that in the box and I just want it's an opportunity to Cordish to share that message others diseases like Alzheimer's which are really devastating and people you will be reminded of it Mrs. original art that's being sent to restart interact on hey we can put this in your box like that's awesome thank you that is awesome and if you've ever wanted to go and use a physician's recommendation as you move through the aisles of where what supplements actually work which brands are the ones that I can trust and which ones can I save money on to accomplish all of the things that I want to to supplement mount health that's what the K BMD boxes all bouts of KB MD box.com will direct you to where you can learn more to see a video of Dr. Brown on boxing the first months box that'll be replaced here pretty soon when we basically updated and unpack month number two which was very similar to one that always has small little tweaks just to basically improve your health and you can join and you can pause at any time there was never go to the you can go to the the member store and build more build you can deftly build more he can remember boxes getting more and more products in their really and it's all you know I want do is build a box it's based on science speaking of one of our people has member box set me article this morning that I normally would really go to personal stuff here but remember you can little love my Tommy.com/spoony and get a big discount and outrun till you're wondering okay will I don't have bloating or anything like that this article was just sent to me about 15 minutes ago in the article is anthocyanins protect the gastrointestinal tract from a high fat diet -induced alterations blot within burial integrity disposal really fancy these are the molecules are talking about right anthocyanins and what they do they looked at mice and they fed them a typical high sugar high fat American diet and they demonstrated that when they did this that the mice became fat they had insulin resistance they developed steatosis which is fat in the liver and they showed despite Elsa so the bacteria got screwed up and we got then they gave the mice the same molecules that we have and are trying to fed him the same diet and it started to reverse all that process so the science is coming out on this is so fascinating so if you don't if you're not taken Toronto right now because you do not bloated you might want to do it if you're eating a typical American diet leased from the small animal studies so that's and that's in the box and that's one of the main ingredients that's only one more facet in terms of what are 20 or just straight polyp I tried to learn not it's really what polyphenols can do to enhance or protect you and your health so now we know that it works well for gut now we know that tab with that Dr. Bo tells research from the UK from Exeter that polyphenols daily for athletes actually improves performance and tissue perfusion from from blood flow in a course you slow down your recovery time all of that comes from polyphenols not to mention making your endogenous or your your normal CBD your your normal cannabidiol that you have in your body work more efficiently there's just benefits to having polyphenols in your daily diet so we built this box is a gut health box right when you start looking for science to get the polyphenols for performance you get the megastore to increase the diversity of your bacteria so that they can actually use the food that you're bringing in and then the little thing we talked about before was true see that's the micronized hydrogen to improve your VO2 max meaning that you can actually have better oxygenation these are all studies that have just recently come out and of course you get a big steep discount on KB MD CBD oil service it's exclusive to everybody he's a KPMG box number no doubt that will almost all of my patients are on our Toronto plus KB MD CBD because the molecules are trying to augment your own endogenous and or cannabinoids or in other words your own CBD that your body produces and of course taking CBD is like a insurance policy against the world because it's really get you back to balance with your immune system and your nervous system speaking to CVD so I've tweaked my back in the past several years ago a few years ago and unfortunately just this last weekend Gage was out playing basketball up in Kansas and I went to watching and I decided to go engage in a workout and I lifted incorrectly I knew better it's a it's a it's a routine I work at that I normally do but you saw this was Ronnie Coleman 600 pounds on scrub I did 550 550 is from take it easy just be safe though truthfully it wasn't that much weight but what I did I put myself in a in a compromising angle that I don't normally do is in the equipment that usually use I knew better but regardless I did get a small spasm in my lower back usually the past it would take five sometimes seven days to really get more mobility that that injury gets it's a small injury occurred Sunday and you saw me pushing beds yesterday up at the end of center and I'm not 100% but the only difference that I have now that I didn't have the last time I hurt my back from lift is it I take on trying till daily antic CBD now and I think the level of inflammation that I experienced is less now it's anecdotal it's just me I feel great today will Susan feel totally 100% let's go back to that same doing the exact same exercise injure yourself but don't take either that way we have a control group and we have a treatment group you took the words right out of my mouth is exactly what I want to do is drive back to Wichita Kansas Wichita are our lovely and nice has nothing to do that it's just five hours from here to get there so at say it's a long round trip looks like your haircut I did get a haircut and yeah several of them cut several of them I'm such a fancy place what you talking to the person that was chop in your hair I was the hairstylist that's it you you call a woman the catcher here I guess that the hairstylist was cutting my hair and she asked me use it kind of funny in the chair and I say well actually just kinda stretch my back go back I tweaked it but I'm getting better and then she went on to tell me a story about she had been rear-ended by a large truck that erection Torcon on Interstate 35 in Denton and it took about eight months to get back to where she could hold her arms up to cut hair and then you know work at home in the scissors and without feeling fatigued lots of pain so I stress it would all work that she said well I did a few things that the pain doc recommended that do it it stretches but what made the biggest difference for me is when I found a CBD that I could trust and I could take but the hardest part should try several she has rides whatever we value this all the time she said the hardest part was finding one that was reputable that she could depend on didn't break her wallet so the one that worked the best was running her a little over $135 a month and she said it'd always make it to the end of the month even though she was following the instructions on their I let her talk and it was almost like she just walked straight into what you know what it is that you do it sought his ashes what would it have made a difference if you had a physician it said I recommend this CBD because it works clinically for my patients and here's why and she said I would've done in a heartbeat if so what if I could told it would have been about half the cost of the hundred and $35 brain that you are using she said well obviously I would've saved money I would've felt better Chuck told her that KB MD she she went straight to an ordered some so it's it's it's really kind of cool that we remove the access of the cost and that of the worry of is this legitimate CBD and so there was talk about it notes the waters are being really muddied right now. His boots of there's people there's essential oil companies that outrun at CBD there's every try to put it in different things and people ordered off Amazon which right now you're getting hemp seed oil united in getting CBD right is lots of mislabeling and so I think it's really important to have something to trust same thing that you're doing and buy a supplement or make sure that your CBD use is of quality something will happen is also on the topic of that of yesterday I I like it is so Greek salad and turkey patties from from Kenny's burger which is right by my brother my office to tasty Kenny's burgers but Chef Eric said that he was with him on the show under someone holding to it here pretty soon but I was I was Artie talking some people some somewhat regulars there was I googled you and I found you show LOL my guess it's also active on the show because it googled me as a doctor but find it a joke of growth nature and that she was tell me more about the CBD and then just immediately started this whole discussion about passivity was her talk about it and then it went sideways because she goes what you talk about tomorrow Mike that's a great thing am open to looking at different articles a look at what is really interesting one that just came out about a fecal microbial transplant is not effective in irritable bowel I forget that I'm at a restaurant you said that getting said yeah out loud to your class he got real classy records. The never disconsolate that I had to explain the article on the Gladwell will so you take what you slurry it up and put it I'm sorry document can you please leave the stage and a restaurant as I know I was like what yeah okay I'm just as it doesn't get any better not go into detail about how they actually did it which is what I want to do later maybe go to a restaurant that is not does not sell more burgers is Chevron Arcana came out was like yeah let's just move you back in the corner over there and let everybody else eat the burgers no need to wash your hand yes exactly so that we talked about CBD they found us just by doing and then I got put in the corner because I have a potty mouth it's okay well yeah is about a subject hey I just a real real quick reminder for all of our listeners be sure to like and share the gut check project and then shoot us an email gadget project.com under a connector contact let us know that you like and shared we got hundreds of people over the last few weeks so we are still going to give away the signature protection package which is a combination of Tron deal and KPD CBD month supply direct from yours truly Dr. Brown so where are we on the research topic for this week Jess of Unitech before Travis Or Did You Want to Save It's for Now Save It for a Little Bit I Want to Get More into Tell Me What Happened with the Family That's Compacted in Which Delegates You Go That's Great Is His Last Big Tournament As a Yeah Is a Highschooler before He Starts Haskell Ball I Got Have One More Turn up the Rest of the Summer but They Went to What They Call a Great American Shootout It It's Basically Huge Huge Basketball for Kids Who Are in High School to College Coaches Come in and They Watching He Dent the Weekend before down in South Dallas Duncanville and Other Match of Seven in Kansas Were Were Great I Mean They They Were Challenged They Ended up Finishing Two into One Teenage Face Twice They Beat Once in the Last Two Later and but If It Was It's so Good for the Development of This Program for Them to Have That Kind of That Kind of a Set up and It's It Puts Them into a Real Game Environment and That the Boys Worked Hard so It Was A Lot Of Fun and It's Always Good to Get at Town with Any Family Member Where You're Kind of Forced to Sit the Car Talk, but As Funny Subjects Laugh So It's Now I'm Not Really Fortunate Both My Kids Did Have Good Road Trips Exactly in and You Guys Are Sit There Talking You Know He's on His Phone Now Which Due To the Lot Where They Put the IPad the Back Everything Else We Do the Same at like Whatever We Do Road Trips It's You Realize You Hate to Drive Yes but I Have Kinda Grown a Little More Fond of It Because You Gets up and Talk Yeah My Undivided Attention When My Back Was Hurt Then on the Way Back so Gage Gauges Forced to Drive and I Could Even Look down to Look at My Phone) That We Had a Great Trip and Then Abreaction Stayed in Town Because Our Youngest Son Here the Best Will Tournament but Here's the Crazy Thing You Know That I Live in a Small Town or to Such a Small Town of 5000 People Marie Was a Part of This New Concert Series It Happens Indicator That They Would Just Now Starting to Implement and They Had a Large Music Acts That Amos Tony Leroux Who Came to Downtown Decatur Will Have 5000 and Change That Claims They Live in Decatur Property Had over 6000 People on the Square Just to Watch This One… That's so ALSO They Did a Great Job of Promoting and Bring Your Buddy Downtown so It's It's like A Lot Of of Americana in Canada Trying to Revitalize the Old Square and to Bring the Community Together so They Did a Great Job of Bullets People Downtown That's Awesome That's Very Sweet so That You and the Kids Well Okay so Last Week Show so the Both Kids Were Playing in Florida for Clay's For Clay-Court National Site and so Carla Had Just like I Think the Data Redoing the Show She Just Lost It before so She Was out Luke Is Actually Doing Real Real Good He Got Six Place 256 of the Best National Tennis Players in the Country and He Was the Youngest Which Is No Problem and What Was Really Cool Is That Carla Was There the Whole Time but She's Good Enough Now That She Can Warm Lucas up so She Was Lucas's Warm Apartment Nice so Yeah so I Thought That Was Really Really Cool so Last Night so They Came in on Sunday and Last Night They Start Asked Me about the Show Which I Think Is Really Fun so Carl Goes You Know What You Say about Me Tomorrow You Might Hello Point I Would Have Been with You Which Is like I Won't Look Us up so I'm like Okay Then Something I Could Not Do Liberals Don't Ask Me to Do No No No It's Impossible Bulges Flyby and Then Lucas Others Pretty Cool Because the Last Week You're Talking about How the Weeds Grow Everywhere Yeah and He Goes I Found a YouTube Channel Called Great Big Story Just Random Stuff Is Really Well Done 4 Million Subscribers Whatever Okay There Was a Story on That He Said Talk about This So Interesting and Will Get Only Gets up Patrick's Take on a Couple of These Things but It Is a Harvard Law Professor Who Dropped out or Just Quit after Practicing Law Just Said Turned on with This Became Forager So to Speak She Became a Weed Expert Okay And She Just Goes around Collects Weeds and She Takes Them to the Finest Michelin Star Rated Restaurants in New York City Where the Chefs Do Amazing Things with Weeds and Never Last Week Were Taught about the Fact That These Weeds Grow They They Have More Seeds That Grow Were in Inhospitable Environments They Have All These Different Sure Were Probably Looking at A Lot Of Food That We Could Be Dabbling in but I'm Not Encouraging Everybody Run out and Start Eating Everything in Your Yard EE I Remember That Reverent Story Ever into the Wild Right the Alexander Supertramp Who Happen to Eat Something and He Was Bare Garlic Instead of Wild Garlic Which Was Listed on the Same Page the Buckingham Dying in a School Bus in the Wilderness of Alaska but Yes That Moving the Book Is Really Great Actually Acts and Injuring Them in a Book on My Think at the Book and the Action Was an Article in Outdoor Magazine and Then It Was Became a Book and I Became in the Movie but down What Was That We Need That You Said That You Are You Ready Okay so Yeah There so Many Edible Plants but Having A Lot Of Them Require Special Preparation There's One in Texas Called Pulte Salad And down like a Silver Dollar Weed The Problem Is Yes the Boiler like Five Times Boiler Drain It Boiler Drain and Boiler Drain It before It Doesn't Make You Sick and Ends up Just Being Another Boiled Green but My Question Is Always Point How Many Children Did You Make Sick Throat Got up I Will March Me Know Jill's Sixth Mother Let's Try To Boil More Time Drain It in and Try Again I Never like Blowfish How Many Sailors on One Ship Died. I Cut It Correctly Yeah but Having Kids Is Probably Act of Desperation Is to Find out What You Mean at Some Point You're Kind of Force You Do Yeah I Mean and Forging Is a Big Thing Now I've Been Assuring You While the Hunting Wild Mushrooms in I Know He's Actually It's It's Awesome but It's Really Scary Because I Don't Know You Know We Have from Even It Comes to Mushrooms On One of the Episodes We Had Cooper Read on the Atkins We Did a Whole Episode on How to Identify Mushrooms How They Grow Idea That's Fascinating to Me That My College Is Coming I Don't Know How in the World They Can Get That Confident I Can Think You Could Study and Study and Study but Then Suddenly You're out on Your Own Going and That Was Pretty Good Really Want You Try That Make Sure It's Pretty Good Note School Is out Is Morels Have Not There Is No Other Mushroom That Looks like Them That's Poisonous so You Want Hot Mushrooms Be Sure to Learn How to Identify Morel Mushroom and Forget the Rest And 80 Bucks a Pound It's Been Shopping for Where Do You Find Morel Mushrooms and Well All over the Place at Texas Not so Much North Texas Maybe Far North Texas Arkansas Missouri Digits Did You Know That A Lot Of Texas Mushrooms Joke in the Arm of the Supercollider There Are Going to Build Oh Yeah so That the Tunnels They Began to Build Around Here in North Texas That Quercetin Completed but There Are These Gigantic Tunnels They Had to Make That They Made Use of Them And Eight They Cultivate and Grow Tons of the Mushrooms That You Get in Your Grocery Stores in the Old You're Kidding Supercollider Tunnels Yes It's Really Awesome They Have Is Awesome That My Ankle Time I Know That Jerry and Ray They Walk in a Manner like These Big Wheels and I Mean It's like the Perfect Tank No Sunlight Environment for White Mesh Row Ever since Ever since That Episode I Become so Intrigued by Mushrooms Was Even a Netflix Special That I Watched about Mushrooms and How Prolific They Are All the Things That You Do You Know Him As You Know I'm a Big Fan of All the Research Going on with Silicide and the Micronutrients and in Mushrooms Are Me and Can't Get Them Framed from Any Other Sources It Is Amazing with a Half-Hour I'm Looking at the Time I Feel This Is Unbelievable and We Yeah This Is Unbelieving Okay so Coming up Next Generic Travis From the Generic Page Family Talking Here Outline a Cyclical Generics Is Generous Is There's There's There's It's Also Generic It's a Way to Teach You How to Be so Generic That You Will Be Invisible Will Generically Laugh Your Ass off If You Are Trying to Quit Drinking or Doing Too Many Drugs Listen to Me You Don't Know Me and Will Never Meet I Had a Problem like You Want I Drank and Used a Party a Little Too Much till He Got Out Of Control and Almost Ruined My Life I Realize I Needed Help to Fix My Problem before It Totally Destroyed Me If You Tried to Fix Your Drinking and Drug Problem and You Know You Can't Do It Alone You Need to Call the National Treatment Advisors That Will Immerse You into a 30 Day Program to Replace Your Old Habits with New Habits and Totally Change Your Life and If You Have PPL Private Health Insurance the Entire Program May Be Covered Fix Your Problem Right Now before It Gets Any Worse Get Clean Call Now and Learn More 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 Are You Tired of High Cable TV Rates Sign up for Dish Today and Get a $500 Bonus Offer While Supplies Last Loss Locking Your Price for Two Years Guaranteed Call American – Your Dish Authorized Retailer Now 800-570-6630 800-570-6630 – 800-570-6630 Authors Required for the Occasion 20 from Early Termination Fee at the Auto Vein Restrictions Apply Call for Details Fast-Track Student Loans Can Get Your Student Loans Out Of the Vault Stop Any Wage Garnishments Stop Collection Calls and Stop Seizure of Your Tax Refund Give Yourself a Break to Stop the Stress and Get Your Student Loan Payments down to As Little As $25 a Month Based on What You Can Afford to Pay 800-709-4395 800 709-439-5800 709-439-5800 70943950 Projects We Are Now Joined with Mr. Travis PageIs the Generic Pharmaceutical Everything That Was Brought on Correct That's Correct Okay Now We've Just Gotten Legal Permission to Show His Face That Is Not That Generic Is That Some Other Cool Stuff Going on That's How You and I Originally Met You Had These Studies Cattle They Were Doing Anything That That There Were Supposed to Tell Me to Bring the Girls Alert the Cold Court Entered an Elected Mexican Cattle Espanola Yeah I Went to His Ranch in the Rye Had Little I Little Discussion Was like Him He Stood Back to His House yet Is How We Got in Line Had Never Thought about Speaking Spanish I Don't Speak Spanish but the Mexican Guy Needed You to Come over and Help Me out with That Once We Got in Line I Was like Hey I Got a Great Idea I Hope You Want You Come to My Office and Bring Lunch Occasionally That That's How It Works Yeah That's Right. That's Really All There Is It's Almost 90s What Is What You Say 97% of Pharmaceutical Reps Started in the Cattle Industry Oh That Is It's Much Lower Than That I Hope My Way off Bad Stats in Math and so Well We Get Now That We Have Somebody from the from the Farms of the Industry We Wanted to Have Travis Calloway in on Some of the Articles That Were Going to Discuss Today and in the Science Corner From Dr. Brown so Let's so I Got It Norma What Transmittal Do Sometimes I'll Take a Really Kind of a Cutting-Edge Article and Take a Deep Dive but There's Several Different Studies That Pertain to Our Previous Shows I Just Want to Come to Gloss over Them Wanted to Let Travis Decide Which One Were to Talk about First So Very Important You May Just Pick One of Those Pages Are All Negative That Gary Sakata Description First Actually Do You Want to Hear about the Tie between the Jott Micro Biome In a Potential Way to Help People with ALS Pamela Tropic Lateral Sclerosis Is Usually Known As Lou Gehrig's Disease Stress Data Was Choice Number One Choice Number Two Would You like to Hear the Previously Discussed Kenny's Restaurant Poop Transplant Story Choice Number Two Choice Number Two or Choice Number Three Out Of a Canadian University They Been Able to Identify And Produce Molecules in This Behalf Plant That Are Actually 30 Times Stronger Than Aspirin For Anti-Inflammatory Now You Heard Eric Talk about His Back Could Be That CBD Was Doing Something Real Nice We May Have the Molecules Three so This This Is Actually More of a Personality Test For You to See Where You Actually Landed Where Where You Headlined Is Generic Travis Your Job Is on the Line Yeah I I Feel like It's a Personality Test the Number Two with the Poop Would Be like to Go to Choice One with the Got Biome ALS Biome LSO Study Just Cannot Hear with I Looked at the Motor Neuron Disease ALS What They Have Found Is That There Is a Clue That This Horrible Condition and We Had Brandon Brown on Last Week We Were His Dad Died We Went into A Lot Of Detail about the Just Slow Progression of It and You Know We've Had Other People Call in That Event Actually Dealt with Us so Is This What Killed Stephen Hawking They Have Linked Changes in the Micro Biome That Live in Our Gut so They Have Discovered That Micro Biome Will Secrete a Proper Micro Bar Will Secrete Nicotinamide Vitamin B3 And This Appears to Slow the Course of Motor Neuron Disease by Improving the Function of the Muscle Control Neurons in the Brain Now This Is Pretty Exciting Because This Is the First Time They've Been Able to Show How the Micro Biome Will Produce a Neuroprotective Molecule and What They Showed Is That They Took Some Mice and Dooming a Biotics in the No Longer Produce So When We Start Destroying and Dropping Bombs and Not Feeding Our Microbiota We Don't Produces so It Nicotinamide You Made This May Seem Familiar to You Because We Were Working with the Guys That Produce Nicotinamide Ribonucleic Acid Which Is a Precursor of This so Basically What Happens Is Nicotinamide Gets Converted to Something Called NAD Plus and This Converts Food and Energy It Repairs DNA and It Helps the Circadian Rhythm so All These Things Eventually I Want to Try Get Some NAD in Our Box Sure but so It's Pretty Exciting Because Once Again It Comes Back to the Gut Can Affect Your Brain Were All about the Got Right Axis Here And so That Was Kind of Exciting and We Should All Think before We Just Go over to Gazette about Taking Antibiotics to Eat This Crappy Food Because Your Kinda Doing Some Neural Protection Every Time You Eat Polyphenols Every Time You Improve the Diversity of Your Micro Bio/ME I Think That You Could Look at There's Two Inputs to Your Brain and and Its Health One Is the Obvious It's What You're Doing to Learn and Keep Your Your Mind Active but the Other Thing Is Just Plain and Simple You Rest of Your Body Has To Get Nutrition From Somewhere in the Only Way to Get It Eat What You Eat in a Matter I Would Just Shown Time and Time Again That the Typical Western American Preservative Filled the Diet the Preprocessed Food It's Just Destroy Your Health It Really Is We Were Seeing an Epidemic of Autoimmune Disease and Everything Else Which Is Why I Think Everyone Has an Endo Cannabinoid Deficiency We Always Talk about This There Is the Gastro Vessel System the Cardiovascular System Neurologic System Will Have an Endo Cannabinoid System I Want to Be the First Board-Certified Endo- Kanab and All Just out There I Think I Can Because I'll Have To Form the Whole John Ronald to Certify Myself Immediately to Me Interesting Residency for Sure It Will Be Really Interesting Yeah So That the Other Study Were to Talk about Which Is These Guys Figured out These Two Molecules Cannot Live in a Can of Light and Be What's Interesting to Me about This Is That They Are Flavonoids So in a Full-Spectrum Hemp These Are the Polyphenols Which Are Also Was CBD Original CBD Nobody Talk about All the Other Molecules That Come along with It We Talk about the Terpenes Which Are the Essential Oils and We Talk about the Flavonoids Which Are the Polyphenols Right And What They Showed Is These Template and a and B They Provide the Anti-Inflammatory Benefit of Taking a Full Spectrum Interesting and They Showed They Can Show This Is What's The More Interesting They Implied That They Show That These Different Molecules Are 30 Times More Effective Than Taking Aspirin by Blocking Prostaglandins Prostaglandins As Part of the Arachidonic Acid Pathway Okay yet so Just for Those Who May Not Be Completely Aware of Their Economic Acid Pathway You Start with the Prostaglandin and It Moves down I Think It's Either Level I or Level II You Get into the Cyclooxygenase of the Cox Enzyme Correct Correct and That's Where Aspirin and Those Other NSAIDs Would Work so Basically You're Saying That a Natural Flavonoid Will Stop or Prevent That That Progression down That Pathway Earlier Correct Exactly This Is Patrick He Is Just Studio Touching Things Very Range of ZZZ's Adjusting Camera Started out There So So What's Really Actually about This Is That There's No There's Big Business I Mean Back When I Was a Resident There Was Talk of a Farmer Here for Second the People Throwing the Money Out Of Us Were the Cox Two Inhibitors Sure of Who I Can't Member Who They Were but They Got There Pulled off to the Realtor Causing Heart Attacks Afflicted by Vioxx Was One of the so Just to Finish up This Article There Was Really Interesting Because I Was like Wow This Is so Cool and Then I Went These Guys Didn't Discover This in Fact It Was Discovered in 1985 That These Molecules Did This What They Did Is They Discovered the Enzyme to Produce It So They Want to Start Manufacturing Just These Two Molecules And They Probably Will Make It a Drug Sure like They Want to Do so This Is Interesting Because We Talk All the Time That the Full Spectrum Allow Mother Nature to Do Her Thing So No Offense of the Farm Industry but Frequently Though Find Something Oh There Is the Molecule during This Then They'll Manufacture It and Hope That It Works As Well As in Mother Nature but We See It Time and Time Again That It Doesn't You Need Everything in the to Do It and I Did Have Some Fun with This Because I Want on Reddit and Looked at Somebody I Recently Discovered Read about Three Months Ago Yes It Just Started Ready Friend and I'm like Reddit Thing Is Super Cool When You Find That Modems Had a Quick Side Note They Go on I Gonna Read It Funny Pretty Good Way to Start Your Day Just Looked at Cop Arresting a High a Really High Kid and I Don't Know What Happened before Goes the Cop Looks at Him and Just Goes I Mean like When They Make Fun of High People and They Portrayed in Movies You're Mad As Hell Man Thanked Its Front Page Read It for Sure It Was so Somebody Wrote Them Basically What They're Talking about Is That It's Been Known for a Long Time That These Kenna Flavin's a and B Have Been Able to Do This and the Study They Were Referring to His 1985 but It Just Kind of Implies That This Is You Know the Way Things Go What's Really Cool about It Is That There Are Potentially Thousands of Other Molecules We've Not Discovered In These Plants I Made Such a Complex Plant Which Is Why Think It Is so Many Things so That's Article Number Two Article Number Three Is I Get Asked All Time on My Patients about Fecal Transplants and so You Take Someone's Poop Stick and Somebody Else and A Lot Of My SEBO Patients A Lot about Your Mobile Patients Always Asked That Randomized Trial Came to the Conclusion That Now It's Not Any Better Than Placebo the Real Taking Someone Else's Poop Does Not Help Irritable Well Hey Just a Curiosity That Particular Study How Big Was It and Are You I Do Think the Methods Were an Effort to Be Disk and Totally Conclusive on That Element Now I'm Sure It's Not and I Don't Member Lussier Got off Public Results I'm Only Curious Because We've Seen in the past but Sometimes You Can Hundred and 75 People Recruited Okay 75 Now That Being Said It's like All Things for Me and Some Other People Would Go Ahead and Critique Us so They Took the Capsules the Frozen Food Pressure Okay Though Some Would Argue Is It You Know Is It Actually Working to Present to D Have To Go in and Do This so Do Remember Quick Side Note We A Few Years Ago We Were Interviewed We Had This Yale Gastroenterology Fellow We Took A Lot to Eat He Was Considering Joining Us and His Research Was on Fecal Microbial Transplant so Taking My so What They Would Do Is Take a Skinny Mouse and a Fat Mouse and They Would Swap and See What Happened with That Mousey Little Skinny Mouse and They Were Showing That Fat Mice Started to Lose Weight after Getting the Fecal Transplant Skinny Mice Gained Weight So While He's Telling Us This As You Can See I Have a Habit of Talk about Poop and Restaurants Yeah Our Waitress Was like What Hold on to Explain That He Goes into More Details I Guess I Will Publish This in It's Really Exciting She's like He Was Ever Thought about How Their Fat Families Is Genetics or Are They Sharing Their Poop Once You Live with Somebody Long Enough Whether You like It or Not You Sharon Poop and Just to Women with Somebody so She Just Goes Oh My God It Looks over the Water Boys like Six 420 S. West That Just Became the Sexiest Man in This Restaurant Yeah Yeah Yeah I Did So so Anyways Brigham Young University Just Came out with Actually Did a Fecal Microbial Transplant Study on Weight Loss The – Documents and so Is Small Study but It Actually Did Not Show That Improved Weight Loss I Had a Patient That Did a Microbial Transplant from Her Sister and She Ended up Getting The Same Diseases As Her Sister Though She Developed Acne and Hypothyroidism and Put on Weight It's Really Interesting Though Because I Think It Even United Whenever That Study First Came out from Brigham Young That Was That There Probably Are Still Some Environmental or Extrinsic Controls That There Probably Weren't Measured Because Did the Fecal Transplant Actually Have Number One Time to Change the Habits of the Desires the Person Had Now It Seems like There's A Lot Of Different Facets Whenever You're Talking about Essentially a Human in the Wild of the Western Civilization and And All of the Different Offerings That You Can Have for Food Sources Etc. Can Be Reversed So I Thought from a Generic Farming Nice Yeah so I'm in a Really Have To Not Beating in My Scene To Ingest Somebody Else's. Psalm Tanya Seems like There Would Be A Lot More Negative Than Positive to Write Well Will I Think That There's so Much Science Coming out on the Micro Biome We Don't Know What to Do with And There's A Lot Of People Who Are Really Desperate I Think You're on an Island I Think Most People Are Totally into Having Someone Else Do You Think That We Took a Poll I Don't Know It See This Is What He Brings up a Good Point Maybe My Sample Size Is Way Too Small Maybe I Need to Ask More People Than Just Myself Okay That Was No Pun Intended Right Your Sample Size I'm Glad Someone Is Picking up a Ladder Right after L Phoenix on Friday Obviously Travis Does Not Work for a Mixed Good Restaurant Is Awesome Yeah but No It's Believe It or Not It's a Topic of A Lot of Scientific Inquiry Right Now Yeah Microbial Transference the Microbiota What's Going on I Mean This Is People Not Ever since the Advent of the Phone I See More Pictures of People's Poop and I Don't Need to Just Keep It Right There Don't Know What You Can I Got the Good Imagination I Imagine That Is Interesting No and We Did Get Asked about That Quite a Bit at the Procedure Clinic About What You Know about Fecal Transplants but I Think There's Still Time Left to Discover If It's Well so It's the Brakes of Been Put on It Because Just Recently That Study, We Have People Died Two People Died from Getting a Fecal Transplant Because the There Was a Bacterium That Yeah That's What I Was in Salmon There's That Negative Outweighing the Positive Right Because There's so Much Negative from Its Waste Right I Will yet so Technically That's True but That's It Has Your Micro Biome and It Has A Lot Of Dead Things Is a Ton of Waste in It and You Know Poop Is Extremely Complex We Don't Really Quite Understand What to Do with It or How to Make It Better but We Do Know That Your Micro Biomes Your Genome within Your Genome We Need to Start Treating That Accordingly Give It What It Wants You Start Having A High Process with High Sugar Food You're Going to Have Bacteria That Are Going to Proliferate More I Will Start Sending Signals to Your Brain to Ask for More of That so Are You in Control Or Is Your Bacteria in Control of You That's the Interesting Thing Yeah Definitely Has Many Other No Words No That's That's We Just Waited Technically for Quick Studies Today NL Just Came out but Right Now I Got I Got I like Commit to One and Do a Deep Dive on It but We Were Able to Come to Cover the Cover Basis Rather While They Want to Gain It Well Travis Walking the Show Thank You Ashram so You Were Born in Carrollton Texas Correct Yes and Currently Now and of Course We All Teasing but We Can't Worried Asked Not to Totally Reveal Exactly What Farms It Was a Represent What Company That You with but That Won't Prevent Us from Talking about the Journey to Get to Where You Are Now so It Will… Let's Go Ahead and Cleverly Were Microfiber but the Reality Is Is That the Pharmaceutical Industry Has Been under Fire for the Last Decade or so Though Sure That the Regulations What Can Be Said What You Can Be Represented Have Really Been Ratcheted down in Some Part of the Fun I Want to Do Today's Talk about My Journey As the Doctor Where There Was No Limit Free-For-All It Was a Free-For-All to Now Would You like to Know You Can't Say Anything And I Can't Bring You Anything and We Can't Do Anything and Everything's under Tight Regulations It's Morphed A Lot I Mean Definitely over the Last Three Decades It's Probably Not a Recognizable Profession When It Was 30 Years Ago Compared to What Is Now Yesterday There's a Guy That That Worked with On the Primary Care Side That Will Just Call MAC Outright and He Was 60 Something Years Old He'd Been through He Made It through like Eight Different Layoffs over The Course of His Career Right Me Just Could Not Kill This Guy And He Was a Fixture Every Wednesday He's in This Particular Office Right and I Just Asking Him and Talking to Him about What The Industry Was like 30 Years Ago When I Came into It I Mean You I Missed out on On All of That Right and You Know It's It's the Only Sales Job Really That I Can Think of Where It's Not Okay to Take Your Customer to Dinner or Take Your Customer out for a Drink or out to Play Golf or or Whatever the Scenario Might Be I Mean Yeah One of My Best Friends Is His Family Owns a PVC Pipe Manufacturing Company Right They Live on That They Live on Entertaining Their Customers I Mean It's Expected Brian and I Is Not Funny Because Doctors Now Are so Scared Especially with Happen to Some Hospitals Doctrine Hospitals the Stuff That If You Own It If You Do Anything in Medicine I Do Not Want I Don't Take Any Money from You I Do Not Want to I Feel like a The High-Level College Recruit Just like Now What I Will Pay for My Own and Because He Is There so Much Fear on the Doctor and Roots like Look at You Being Influenced And the Reality Is There Was A Lot Of Money to Influence People's Behavior and That's What That's Why the Relations Came around His Right Is Wrong I Don't Know While Internet and That All of the Training and Everything You Get Is a Rat Now Is All Very Patient Focused Right It Is It Is All about Presenting a Case and Paying a Picture of a Particular Patient That Needs Help And That That's Really Our Job at This Point Is to Go Get in Front of the Physician Somebody Has the Capability to Improve Somebody's Life Right by Writing a Prescription or Doing a Procedure Whatever the Case May Be in Just Painting a Picture of the Patient That They See on a Daily Basis but Maybe Get Lost in the Shuffle Are That They Don't Recognize and Try to Paint a Picture of How That Patient Suffering and How You Can Help So I Mean I We Will See the Company Name but I've Been Doing Clinical Research for A Lot Of Different Pharmaceutical Companies and I Work A Lot Assigned to Place on Sears Has Some Really Smart PhD's That a Return to Work This out so There's There's All Different Kinds of Views of What This Industry Is and What It Was What It's Become And Everybody Insurance Companies Have a View of That the Patient Has a View of That the Doctor Has a View of It the Company and There's so Much So Many Moving Parts That Are Continually Moving so If a Drug Company of Or Research Division of the Drug Company Has a Pretty Good Product If It Doesn't Look like It's Gonna Be a Homerun There's Just a Recent Pharma Startup Were There Looking at Something in Cannabis in the Phase 3 Clinical Trial Was Looking Bad And Somehow It Got Leaked Their Stock Plummeted 81% On This The Rumor That the Trial Wasn't Going Well It's Crazy Because He Almost Are Stockholders in Industries like That You're Always Betting on the Future It's Never on the Present Value of What Merely Delivering a Good Service Would Heavy It May Have so Much Weighing on That in Fact If Armor the Number Correctly You May Be Able to Correct near It's Probably Grown since Then but the Late 90s We Were Told the Stat And That Was That so Much of the Money in the United States Of America Pharmaceutical Industry Is Strictly to Stave off the Costs of R&D and the Elements That Go into That to Move That Product Soaked over Told Is That before One RX Is Sold of Any Doesn't Matter All Comers Is Sold That over $1.4 Billion Had Been Invested Industrywide to Create Good Multifarious Trials the Experiments That the Development Of a Said Drug That Would Come with Every Lineage You You Yourself Even Said They Had That Started with a Steady Back in 85 and Now They're Trying to Find an Enzyme to Do Something Will Were 30 Years Removed from That so over That Time How Many People Spent Time Reading That Article so This Is an Aggregate of All of the Time and All the Research That Goes into This and Avenue Where We Can Improve Either an Outcome or What Have You Is Just A Lot Of Money on Top of That Before You Can Turn a Drug out to Somebody You Gotta Go through At Least Three Phase Clinical Trials and Then Moving to the Force Where the Consumer Will I Will Say This Travis Are Here Because Number One Your Atypical for a Drug Rep So How in the World like What Your Journey Man Were to Start College and Appear Yes so It It's It's Really Not That I Complicate Our Plan to Be Here A Lot Sooner Than That I Was a Mean on That Third Show Doesn't Start until I Was Right on Time for That Yes so You Are Talking about My Journey Right so I'm a Third-Generation Sales Guy When My Dad Went through School When He Came out It Was All about Computer Software and Hardware Right When I Was in School It Was All about the Pharmaceutical Industry and so It Was My Ambition Right to Be in Sales It's All I've Ever Done Don't Care If It's My High School Job My College Mates It's Always Been Involved in Sales so I Knew That's What I Was Going to Do in the Hot the Hot Job to Have Come You Know Back in 1999 Was Coming into the Pharmaceutical Industry and It All Went to a Small State University Which Was Mistake Right Great Experience Great Education but Just Not Allowed A Lot Of Alumni Support Board Job Right after You Get Out Of School You Know When and at That Point I Thought I Was Going to Be a I Thought It Was Going to Be a Pro Athlete Right Because We All Do When Were 18 or 19th And so When I Discovered That I Wasn't Going to Be Right I Try to Get into That the Job Market Will Sports So I I I Rodeo Road in College and You Know I Thought That That Was Going to Be Realizing Your Second College Rodeo Yes Scholarship Person That We Got on the Show the Odds That's Where I Show 18 We Had to Know Me That's the Elementary Him Percent Yeah Hendrickson Was a Rather One Robo That's Right Robo So What Would He Compete and What Was His Mostly Bad Ass Surrey Samurai Night Was That He Was a I Think He Was a Bronc Rider It Is a Professional Bronchitis Think He Was a Bronc Rider Yeah Yeah Yeah so That's What I Did but There It Was Very Evident That I Was Not Going to Be Professional at It by the Time I Arrived National Rodeo Person Liquid of the Skills and the Acyl Basically Your Your You're Willing to To Put Your Money Forward and Go on the Relative Absolute Zero Sensitivity in the Mail Nether Region There's That Your Behalf Shopping to Play Smudges As People Think That It Is That Often so We Don't Have To Worry about Being Somebody Runs up and Just Kiss You All of the Terry A Lot Of You A Lot Less People Sign up If That Were the Case Yeah No I Mean It's It's Really You Know It's It's It's One of the Few Sports in the World Where There's No Contract There's Nobody Paying You Unless You Went so You Gotta Be Able to Foot the Bill to Go Compete And Then Yard You Know Basically Sustaining Yourself with Whatever You Went so If You Don't Win It's Not Sustainable Is Basically What the Deal Is so That the First Job Interview I Had a College Was with Copenhagen's Goal Right Okay and so I Go down to the Office There in Louisville Used To Be on Main Street There in Louisville and I Go in There and I'm Talking I'm Talking to This Gentleman and It's a Sales Job and Ides Promotional Job and I Get to Go on the Road All These Rodeos and Stuff and Promote Copenhagen's Goal Might Man It Sounds Fantastic I Said so How You Guys Health Benefits Magazine That We Don't Have That We Pay like 70 Company I Mean Yeah Yeah Your Initial You Will Take Jobs Coming out You Have To Eat so Did You Have Any Issues Taking a Job That Actually Is Harmful To Society yet so in When You're 18 or 19 It Are More Associated with Cowboy Than I Did It Measure Harmful You Know and As You As You Grow up and Mature You Realize That That's Not a Great Thing You Know What I Mean but an 18 or 19 I Just Associated with Being Able to Be Look at How You Look at Look at the Advertising They Were Doing Then It Is Sex for for Your for Your Peers That's Sexy to Be Doing Copenhagen School Started to Happen When I Was 14 Years Old I'm 42 Today Today State Not Today Matt How Is Patrick and with Everything. I Wish It Was My As Long As the Mud Pie We Yeah so Know They Definitely Marketed on the Old You Your Walt Garrison Everything I Mean You To Be What You Had Done to Dip Snuff You Know At Least I Thought That When I Was You Know in Middle School You Know What I Mean so Yeah I Would Not I Would Not Do That Today God's Blessing Because Now You're in Your Center Help to This Said Again Your Products Help My Patients so You Come Full Circle without Definitely and That's It That Is That Is the Most Gratifying Part of of What I Sell Is That You Don't Unsolicited Patients Will See You in a Waiting Room and With This Particular Product That I'm Selling Now at Mean It's a Lifesaver Right so like Literally so Patient Comes up to Me This Is Not a Month Ago In the Waiting Room and Says You Thank You for Doing What You Do You Say My Life I Can Save Your Life Right but It Makes Me Feel Good to Think That I Know Made a Case for That Patient Advocated for That Patient in Front of Physician That Ito Saw Fit to Put This Patient on That Product and It of Their Life Is Improved Because That in Some Dramatic Way so That's the Big Deal with Travis That Was Ablated Not You Just Did Your First Half-Hour with Us on the Guttering Project We Have a Whole Another Hour to Go with Travis We Got Tons of Really Cool Stories about the Pharmaceutical Industry Will Be Back Here in Four Minutes This Is the Only 24 Hour Take Anywhere Platforms Dedicated to Food and Fun We're Spooning Our Townhall.com, Is a Thing or Two about What It Takes to Succeed in National Politics and President Frump Believes the Russia Probe Will Hurt the Democrats Politically in 2020 President Is Predicting That the Democrats Focus on the Russia Investigation Will Backfire in Next Year's Presidential and Congressional Races after Former Special Counsel Robert Muller's Congressional Testimony the President Said There Was No Defense to This Ridiculous Hoax Greg Claxton the White House Horace Johnson Vowing to Silence What He Calls the Doubters the Doomsayers the Gloom Steers You Don't Think You'll Be Able to Successfully Lead Britain Out Of the European Union The New British Prime Minister Is Held His First Cabinet Meeting Later Address Parliament Johnson Promising to Exit the EU by the End of October North Korea Has Fired a Couple of Short Range Missiles into the Sea off Its East Coast South Korea Says One of the Two North Korean Missiles Flew 450 Miles Longer Than Initially Suspected Soul and Set Both Missiles Got to That Distance before Landing in the Walters of the Country's East Coast the South Categorizes Both Missiles a Short Range but It Concerns As to Their Status Senior Japan Official Says If They Were Ballistic Missiles They Would Be Violating UN Sanctions on Charles the Ledesma Party Time in Puerto Rico Protesters Celebrating Afterword That the Embattled Islands Governor Will Resign a Week from Tomorrow Led by Strong Demand for Commercial Aircraft in Cars Durable Goods Orders Rose by 2% Last Month on Wall Street This Morning Stocks Are Lower the Dow Is down about 138 Points the NASDAQ Composite Index All 58 S&P Currently down 14 Points More on the stories@townhall.com Now You Can Fly Anywhere in the World and Paid Discount Prices on Your Airline Tickets Flight Today to Learn This Harassment to Read or Anywhere Else You Want to Go and Pay A Lot Less Guarantee Quality International Travel Department Right Now Low-Cost Airlines 800 452 1075 800-452-1075 That's 800-452-1075 Got an Old Car Donated Whether It's Running or Not to the United Breast Cancer Foundation and Save a Life They'll Even Come and Pick It up for Free The United Breast Cancer Foundation Has Saved Hundreds of Women's Lives through Their Free or Low-Cost Breast Screening Exams but Now They Need Your Help The United Breast Cancer Foundation Wants to Save More Lives through Early Detection by Offering Women Free or Low-Cost Breast Screening Exams In Donating Your Old Car SUV or Truck Whether It's Running or Not Helps Pay for Them Plus You Get a Charitable Tax Deduction Help the United Breast Cancer Foundation Save Lives by Donating Your Old Car SUV or Truck Call Now for Free Pickup 800-245-0823 800-245-0823 800-245-0823 Call Right Now That Number Again Is 800-245-0823 Never Forgotten Apparel Is More Than Just a Premium Women's and Men's Clothing Line It's a Movement to Remind Us to Where American-Made and Serve Those Who Serve Us Our Heroes Never Forgotten Apparel Gives 20% of Their Total Sales to Nonprofits That Support Homeless Veterans and Off-Duty Firefighters and 50% to Individual Veterans and Firefighters in Need Nationwide Checkout Never Forgotten Apparel.com Use Promo Code Matt and ATT And Get 15% off Your Purchase Will Go Back into Our Number Two Check Project Episode 18 on Their Clear Here with Your Host Dr. Ken Brown in the Course Today We Have the Generic Pharmaceutical Rep Travis Page Real Quick Don't Forget to like and Share Gut Check Project Go to YouTube.com Search Gut Check Project Then Be Certain to Subscribe and Tell a Friend Then Go to Get Check Project.com Go to Contact or Connect Let Us Know That You Did It to Be Entered into the Contest Where This Month Next Week We Give Away At Least Five Signature Pack 10 Troubleshoot the Signature Packages I Have Heard You Talk about This but It Is Change the Time Two Cans of Copenhagen's Good for Your Patience I'm Glad That's Better Than That to Be Month Supply about John Teal and Katie Being CBD Paired Together and You Get to Choose Your Flavor like Natural Natural like Sentiment Gets in So It's, like Opening You Choose Your Flavor Yeah Yeah Signature Package, like Copenhagen Be Sure That Is Now like Travis Are Coming on Your Great Salesman Genesis I Was of Delta Here Is a Reminder Ever since the Invention of the of the Phonathon Wonders for My Hemorrhoid Business and That's Why so This Is My Public Service Announcement Don't Red and Poop Because You Get Him Yeah That's Public Service Announcement How Does like the Fact That Friday Nephrology's Toilet This Is Weird That's Gutsy That's Her Mascot Yeah It's It's Cool That He Can Also Articulate His His Hand to a Phone and He Uses the Potty but Now It Away This Is What Amphibians Do Nowadays This Is with Her into Everybody's Evolving Everybody Is Evolving See Evolving so Tribes You Had Quite a Change from You Went to If You Had Mentioned Earlier That Lady Said He Went to Stephen F Austin Kratz Yes Sam Foster State University down in Nacogdoches or East Texas and Currently Now You Live in Crom Which Is Just West of Denton Texas Correct Correct and You Did Not Leave Your Team Roping Skills behind Is Part of Your History You Just Lunch Would Expand on That You Have Any They Do That Anyhow Yes so That in Our Roadblocks in College and We Always Thought That the Timed Event Guys Are Kind of the Sissy Guy I Know I Just Turned out They Were the Smarter Ones Right It Really It Really Does Turn out That Away You Know Your Your Career Is Is Prolonged Quite a Bit You Know When When Your Mount Is Not Trying to Put You on the Ground Hurt You You Know so It It Was Very Much Considered to Be and an Old Man Type Thing by the by the Rough Stock Guys Will Now I Fit That Bill Right Side Zero Shame about about Team Opening It's Actually Extremely Complicated and I'm Rude I Learn Something New Every Time I Go about so It's Some Guys Fish Some Guys Play Golf on Llama Pharmaceutical Rep by Trade but My Hobby Is Timo Days a Week Do You Do T-Mobile or Do You Work on It Yes so It's It's Tough Right Because of You Know All the Resource That You Need to Actually Practice Something I Have You Know What a Dummy If You Will That I Can Roped It Stationary That I Can Do by Myself All the Time but to Actually Get Rigged up and Get on a Horse in and Have a Live Cattle the Rope for Me Not to Be Someone You Have the Cattle Strictly Roof Yes so This We Just Built a House Last Year But before That I Was on a Real Property That Actually Had the Facility A Roasting Pan on It and so We Would Bring Cattle Lisa Basically to This Facility but We Have A Lot Of Space Sure so You Go Online You Start Trying to Leave Lease These Corian Take Cattle What They Want to Lease 100 up We Have Space for 100 Right so We Needed 5 to 10 Generally Be Whole Lot Easier If He Had the Hundred in That Same Space and I Was Going Fishing in Lake Geneva Was Starting Okay That Would Get Really Complicated in a Hurry Bill out Would Be A Lot Of Moving Parts Anyway since We Figured out That You Know There's a Market for This Bird You Know the Small Group of Cattle so My Idea Was on My Little Place to Raise Five and There's All These You Always Have Five Babies on the Ground That Would Mature and and Be Able to Be Leased out to Somebody's Facility and You Drive up down 380 You Know You're from Decatur You Know What I'm, There's All These Little Farm and Ranch Is There and A Lot Of Them Have Team (so That If You and and and Their Alts Smarter Not Hundreds of Acres Right There There 8 to 10 so Not A Lot Of Space to Keep a Bunch of Cattle so That Was My Idea so I Got And Just like Everything Else I Get Myself into a Little More Complicated Than What I Thought You Know It's A Lot Going on This for like I Think Is My Fourth Year and Raising the Yeah Yeah so I Started out with Two Mama Cows in My Idea Was to Breed Him and Then Turn out Babies Will Eat You Can Only There You Can Only Keep Him Permanently If Their Female Right Because That's the Only Way to Make More Cows Right Is to Have Female so If You Have Males That Doesn't Grow Your Herd You Know What I Mean You Can't Bring Them Back to Each Other and I Can't Think so It It's Been an Endeavor Right so Were in the Were in the Process but Yeah That's Another Aspect of the Hobby I Guess You Have like a Career in the Dating Apps with the Yeah Yeah What Side of the Body Corian Table down the Road so You Know Every Every Winter I Take Him on a Date Hello Demo Gals in the Trailer We Take One or On a Day over in My Buddy's Place Even for Them Swipe Right around and Only One so That They Are A Lot Of Choice on a on a Quick Side Note We Talked about This before That When You Have Too Many Choices There Is a Psychologist That Did a Site Psychological Study Were People Who Chooses Many Types of Jams That They Wanted and Had like 40 Different Kinds but You Could Bring Her Back Didn't like It or They Could Choose between like Three And He Showed That the People Had More Choices Were Less Happy with Their Choice or with Their Decision and the Other Ones Didn't That's Exactly What I Think Data Gaps Are I Think You Should Download an App and You Go One of Two Choices That Are You This Guy like That You Pick It and I Think People Would Be Happier Person I Don't Have Any Experience with It so That All I Not One Time Have I Ever Had It I've Always Had You Insane the Natural Old-Fashioned Way Right so I Don't Even Know What This Means This Online Anything I Don't I Don't Get It Never Participated in Also You like Me Look like like the Old Way like like OkCupid Original Apps like I See You Are and You Always Are I Say Something Funny You Know and Then We Dance and Then We Have a Beer and That's It L Next Week and We Go to a Movie like a Real Relationship But I Guess This Is a Real Thing Will Go My Point Is How Unhappy People Are And I Think That Deserves That Foam Well There's Always a Sphere of Zero Something More to Be like You Could Choose You Driving down the Elders Bolted Usually with That Will Make Better You Know Kids with This Was the Swear That That's an Interesting Concept What If If Back before Social Media If People Think of Everything You Give up to Put Your Profile on a Dating App May Not Only Do You Have How You Aesthetically Look but You Begin to Say Your Name or Your First Name out I Assume Sometimes I Do They Ever Ask If You Giggle the Deeper What Your Occupation Is WikiLeaks Which Hobbies Are but If You Just Had to Wear Shirt Just Said Your Name And Then Your Hobbies Where You're from And like What What Area You Live in and Then You Are in a Bar and Then You Begin to Weed out People before You Ever Got to Know Them Just Based on What Their Hobbies Were Never Printed on Their Shirt They Would Bay It Would've Made Things Just a Dating Shirt When You Compare the Hobbies of Everybody and There Probably Not Be Satisfied with the Fact That You May Not Find Somebody like Team Roping And It Just Because It Wasn't Listed on There so the Promo Comes from Looking at All This and I'm Not Seeing My Hundred Percent Match Here If You Have These Small Biographical Details but They've Done I Mean There's a Whole Lot of Evidence We Are Not Becoming Happier As a Society Affect Depression Is This Huge Which Is Why Think Things like Sulci but I Can Make a Big Difference Probably All These Drugs and Everything Probably Just Putting the Phone down for a Little Bit Is a Great Way to To Reconnect and Reset Which Is What I like about What You Do Is Your Hobby You Your with Nature Your Beer Interacting That's Awesome Well in That You Know the Contrast Is My 11-year-old Son Just Turned 12 He's 12 Years Old Now but Now He Is So Not Interested in That Aspect of My Life and When I Was Growing up What a Kid Because I Didn't Have It You Know What I Mean I Ate Was All Indirect It Was Adjacent to Me Was the Influence Was All for My Mom Side of the Family But It Was Everybody a Kind Move past It so I You Know When I Got into It I Can I Got into It on My Own so I Would've Loved My Dad to Be Involved in Something like That and My Son He's a Baseball Player This Thing This Is Not but He'll Pick up the Phone All Day No Enemy Ill Be on That PlayStation but You Know That's It's Just Completely Different from When My Experience When I Was Growing up Totally Can You Explain Exactly Were Saying Team Roping You Know I've Never Watched It I Don't Know Just Tell Me What You Do Okay so I'm on That I'm on the Head Side Right so It Set up This Away There's A Shoot in the Middle Where the Callous Deployed Right in on Either Side I Shoot There's a Box so the Cows Deploy to Get a Head Start Right and Then It's Basically a Horse Race Right so the Guy on One Side Is Responsible for Roping the Horns the Other Guys Responsible on the Other Side for Coming behind and Roping the Feet And Then yet You Dally off Your Saddle Horn and Kinda Stretched Tight for a Split Second They Drop a Flag Not Your Time so It's a Time to Vent Animals and Hurt Not at All Not at All Not All Yeah so There's A Lot Of Controversy Sir Surrounding What They Call Tiedown Roping Where They Use Sprite with a Flip Them over so There's a There's A Lot Of Controversy and Not Just the Way It It Looks I Think Team Roping Is A Lot Less Shocking but You Know That the Bottom Line Is Is That There's All Kinds of of Regulation and That Kind of Thing to Make Sure That That That the Animals Are Taken Care Of and I'm Telling You This Those Horses I Would If I Could Come Back Is on My Want to Be High and Horse Absorbed a Performance Horse of Some Nobody Lives Better Than I Did Have a I Had a Friends Family That They Bread over the Cold Cut Horses Big Big Big Money Big Money Those They Had Staples That Were Asked on Bold Lines Nicer Your House Is No Doubt So That Your Hobby How Did You End up in the Industry That Year and Now Being a Pharmaceutical Representative so You Left SFA And This Is 99 He Graduated It Said 2019 so What's Going on so That the Door to This Industry Was Not Open to Me When I Graduated My First Job Out Of School the First Job That I Took Was with a Pager Company Okay I'm Dating Myself You Guys Remember Pagers Rightly so This Is Just before the Technology of Texting on Your Phone so the Pager Had Advanced to the Point Where You Would That's How You a Text Right Had a Keyboard on It Not Counting so I Would Go Business-To-Business Go up and down Floors of It Other Office Building in Fort Worth Selling Pagers Right yet That I Mean Entry-Level Sales Is Entry-Level Sales Can Get Did That for about Six Months and Then I Got into the Lumber Industry I'm Indeed Still Not Eligible so I Got No Six Months of Sales Experience Right and As I'm Looking I Know I Don't Want to Sell Pager so I Keep an Eye out for These Pharmaceutical Opportunities or Medical Sales Opportunities That Might Present Themselves and It Would Have Job Fairs at a Hotel Right These Big Eli Lilly Companies Write These Enormous Forms to Merck and All These Guys Would Have These Job Fairs at a Hotel So I Would Show up in My Suit Not Kind Thing and There Would They Tend You a Sheet of Paper That Was like Your Application and at the Very Top It Said One of the One of the Requirements Was Your GPA and Then the Other Requirement Was You Know the Amount of Sales Experience a Professional Sales Experience That You Had and Then A Lot Of Them Had a Requirement for Pharmaceutical Sales Expense on My Ever Give You Think of Many Industries Are like That That I Know This Really Is Hard so Hard to Hello That's What I Was Trying to Mean There's There's Requirements It D Hat Were You Had to Have Had Prior MA Experience It Despite of What Works for Me with Your Heart of the Personality Trait of the Hills Well It Innate Side That Was Always My Deal Right Anytime I Could Get in in Front of People I You Know You Need Me How Could You Not Want Me on That You Need Me on That Wall Love I'm Still Saying No Right Right Now One of Those Wills Were One of Those Load Chattels Watching the Show Going Is That like Ties Billable Time I Miss A Lot There That Way and A Lot Of the Time. But Anyway so It's a Happen for Me It Turns out That Whatever Industry You're in and out Do You Guys Have Any Experience in Construction the Any of It Whether It Be in College Did You Guys Ever Work for Construction Company for One Now Work for Legos for a Bit As I Count Does Not Count I'm Actually You Know Some Aspect of the of the Building Industry Is Extremely Fickle Industry Show That the Highs Are Really High and the Lows Are Really Low so II Went into Business with a Friend of Mine from High School That Was Building These Retaining Wall Structures When Not Housing Market Was Just Crazy and We Did Really Well for about 10 Years and Then That That the Bottom Fell Out Of the Construction Kamal Never Forget I Came Back to Work after the Thanksgiving Break and We Had Six Months Booked out and One by One Not Entire Day Everyone Called to Cancel and Sees Huge Property Development Company I Also Usually Only Gone but Why Did It but It Happen That Quickly, so What Was the 08 Yeah so It Is 08 When The Bottom Just Kind of Fell Out Of the AIG and PMI Interest Failure to the DR Horton Saw Those Guys They Had Shut down the Development to Cancel Everything and so All of Our Projects Were Based on This This Large Land Development and Just One by One That Day We Call It D-Day To This Day Me and the Guy So It Basically Shrunk the Company down at That Moment to Where There Wasn't Enough for Both of Us Right Well at the Time I Had a Body That Was a District Manager at a Pharmaceutical Company and He Was Leaving with the Powers That Be the Vice President They Were All Leaving As a Group and Going to Start Doing One of the Startups That You Said That You Spoke of Earlier Right and so In Knowing What I Know Now See You'll Know Anything You Just One in You Just Want Just Somebody Let Me Enter Right This Guy Had a Position in in in North Texas Where You Know I Can Work Denton Flower Mound Louisville All These You My Community Right I'm Homeboy All Men Smart This My Shock Right Knowing Nothing about What I Was Going to Be Selling Knowing Nothing about Who Was Going to Be Selling It to What the Market Was with the Managed Care Was Going to Be I Knew Nothing about This I Didn't Know I Knew I Didn't Even Know Enough to Know I Did Know Anything Sure Does That Make Sense Absolutely so I Called on the Line Do Not Not Not Having to Worry Because You're so Ignorant Is the Heart Rate so I I Thought I Won the Lottery I'm in Right and so It Turns out They Took This Very Old Medication When I Say Old On-Time I like The Birth of America Old Medication Rise like This Is to Be so Listen to It It's It's a Leech so I'm Not Kidding It Was It Was Almost 7 in It so They Took This New Science a Delivery System That Took His Burial Medication Made at Once a Day That Was the Deal I Sold the Very Old Medication If You Go to Your Pharmacy and You Don't Have Any Insurance at All Right You Will Pay the Cash Price for Its Four Dollars K Which Got Taken Three Times A Day to Day with My Medication It's $150 but You'll Have To Take It One Time a Day That Was That Was the Sale Right One Time a Day Versus Three Times A Day This Delivery Sent Your Patient Compliance All This Thing The Longer the Short Is the Whole Entire Company Lasted about 18 Months so My First Experience in Pharmaceuticals Was 18 Months of This Extreme Pressure to Grow the Startup Sure Right Banging Your Head up against the Wall and Then They Fired Everybody in 18 Months Oh I Just Want You Know I've Tried to Raise Money for Trying to I'm Just Huffing out What Kind of Picture, People Invested in This Thing That's It That's a Hard Course What Were They Investing Probably the Delivery System Itself the Cat Yesterday Owned That Technology Right in the Parent Company Owned the Technology and Then That They They Basically Brought in These You Know I Am a Salesforce You Have the Higher Ups of the Sales Force Your VPs and and Directors Not Kind of Thing That Had Been Successful at Another Company and They Brought the Idea Was If We Bring Them All from the Successful Company All over As One Unique Unit Right Then That Unit Will Function for Us Right Will Not If Your Products Crap Right Is What Is What It Boils down to That Is Coming so That's That's Really Interesting Because When You're Selling Something and As an IC I Have People That Try and Sell Me Things That Are Inferior To Another Product That I Have Available Why in the World What I Didn't Consider This an Answer the Question Is When They Try to Sell You Something That Just Doesn't Add up Does It Matter to You If You like That Guy or Not If He's Selling It Right Oh I Mean It Comes down to First Thing Is Patient Care Immediately Whether You Live or Not Patient I Don't Want to Hurt the Pocketbook yet We Can Be Best Friends in Common Hangout but If You Have a Crap Product You Have a Crap Product and That's the Other Thing You Figure out in an End and That's the Thing I like about Right Is That It Is Not Enough to Be a Great Sales Guy Right It Is Not Enough to Be Likable You Literally Have To Have Something That Is an Advantage for The Patient Something Something That's Going to Improve Their Patient's Lives Because He Doubts This Is Why They Started All These Regulations Because There Wasn't. There Was a Conductor down to Hawaii Yes On and Then Suddenly Sales Would Start to Increase Product Was an and People Can Say Oh No That Didn't Influence Oh Yes It Did Yeah That's Why That's What I Did When I Was a Resident They Had What Was Called the Zosyn Hotline So Number Your Broke As a Resident You're Working Crazy Hours You Could Call This Number and a Pizza Would Show up No Questions Asked from Pizza Hut or One of Those Places Dominoes It Was As Though Some Hotline You Would See I Mean All of Us Had Access to so You Would Order Pizza before You Get off to Continue Know Any to That Was That Was What You Can Eat You Realize All of Us Use Those and All of Us Kept Using so Soon after We Got out and Probably Still Would Thousand Inpatient Hospitals As They Develop a Habit Someone Comes up with an Infection That's in America Many Years Now Knew It Was a Defective Antibiotic But They Created a Habit in Us and That's a Psychological Thing That the Former Industry Notes And There Is a Pavlovian Response for You to Just Know That You Want to Use Osan Because It Rewarded Not Only in Helping the Patient but She Got Full Math That's That's Wild but That's Exactly How What If You Could Establish a Pattern in a Training Really Hard to On Learn That Because That's Your You're in a Very Vulnerable Spot Your Teaching Hospital Which Is Why They Really Don't Allow Reps and Most Teaching Hospitals Know Not Not All Yeah and You Know We It's a Big Battle for Us Because You Know When You Have a Product That That Statistically or Clinically Is Superior Right That Doesn't Always Matter Because That Habit That You're Talking about Right They Can Even Agree Yes That Product Is Better Right but When It Actually Comes to Writing It for the Patient It's Just Not Top of Mind Right so They'll Tell You All the Time Man Just Keep Reminding Me Keep Reminding Me Keep Reminding Me Right and It Really Happened Is a It's His Big Obstacle Is Anything Else We Face Will so the World You Know Me I'm From Medicine When We Launch Doctrine until That's What I Thought We Were to Do I Thought That We Were Going to Have a Rep Just Walk out and Be like Look with His Natural Solution That Has This Data That's Really Good And We Could Not Play in That Sandbox at All Couldn't Compete with the Lunches That Were Being Brought Couldn't Compete with the Time in Front of People We Have To Educate and We Learn Really Quick That Is Not the Way for Us to Change Habits in Gastroenterologist Than We Realize That There Were Other Audiences Fortunately We Know That Nutritionists Really Open to Hear New Things and Functional Medicine Doctors and Start to Find Our Niche and Now Are Getting Because Mr. Little Testa Time 34 Years Now Start to See the Casserole Disco Does Work That Henry Can Reverse Engineer the Access so I Think You Hit on a Really Key Point and What the Role the Pharmaceutical Rep Does Play and That Is You Have To Have the Good Ability to Maintain Solid Relationships with Folks Because Even If You Have the Best Message If You Can't Be Heard or Tolerated with Your Presence That Message Will Never Be Heard by the Physician or the Intended Target Presented to Be Educated Make a Mistake about It like It Love It Hate It Doesn't Matter the Pharmaceutical Rep Oftentimes for Incredibly Busy Physician Is the First Level of New or Reeducation Well Technology It's It's Got to the Point That When People Sit There and Say Will There's No Science on CBD Others No Signs on Pro Anthocyanins No I Got 5000 Articles on My Computer Right Now There's No Science on Photo Bio Modulation No It's That Nobody Has Shown up With a Silver Platter While You're Taking Two Seconds to Eat and Go Oh There's the Science Because Nobody I Mean Do Not Looking for the Signs Leisure Doing Research or Dual Report Doing Something like That Well That Blazed by I Really Want to Get into Some Funny Stories That Travis May Have Encountered and You Also Might Have Something to Enter the Story We Could Have Little to Find so We Could Deftly Do Some Comparative Analysis on What Was like Back in the Day That I Rolled into Being a Pharmaceutical Rep Versus What You've Dealt with Today so Sit around Last Half-Hour with Travis Paisley Back Here in Just a Moment Get Your Project Episode Dr. Kim Brown Here Hosts of Check Project with My Cohost Eric Rieger Eric We Can See in Mojo Guys over There and Overhears Billy Talk about Our 20 over Bloating I've Seen in My Practice That I'm Trying to Is a Whole Lot More Than Just Loading Product Yes It Does a Whole Lot More Than Just Fix Voting Because of the Polyphenols That You Find Keen on Trying to Get Your Exactly Right the Polyphenols on Those Molecules We Find in the Mediterranean It Makes Vegetables and Fruit Very Colorful Polyphenols Beware These Polyphenols Can Actually Stop and Nation Help You Have More Energy Thinking Have You Antiaging and Polyphenols Are Great Athletes Sounds like a Hellhole of More People Than Just Loading Tell Me How It Is Taking out Front If You Want to Go so 2002 Capsules Three Times A Day Basically with You Are Exploding Just Want to Polyphenol Intake Everyday Recast Is Able to Let My Tummy.com/Dr. Kim Brown Here a Host of Project with My Cohost Eric Reader I've Seen in My Practice That I'm Trying to Is a Whole Lot More Than Just a Floating Product Yes It Is a Whole Lot More Than Just Exploding Because the Polyphenols That You Find in Trying to Think of These Polyphenols These Polyphenols Can Help You Have More Energy and Polyphenols Are Great Sounds like It's Helping A Lot More People Than Just Loading up My Tummy.com/Are You Tired of High Cable TV Rates Sign up for Dish Today and Get a $500 Bonus Offer While Supplies Last Loss Lock in Your Price for Two Years Guaranteed Call American Dish Your Dish Authorized Retailer Now 800-570-6630 800-570-6630 – 800-570-6630 Offers Required Critical Location 20 from Early Termination Fee at the Auto Phase Friction Supply Call for Details You Your Team over Massa's Have Not Lost That Roughs about Your Bus in the Bronx It's Okay You Could Show Your Feminine Side Dance Little Bit Mandel Yeah Now Get on That Very Last Half Hour Episode 18 to Get J Project and What We Will Talk about the Break We Were to Get Straight to It We Got Some Funny Or Sent with I Think They're Funny Some Good Humor Said Tales of What It's like to Be on Both Ends by the Pharmaceutical Representation Side and Can Absolutely Kick It to You Because I've Heard the Story before and I Can to Look up or Do You Retell an Inlet and a Travesty Not yet so Don't Go Get Her Hopes up It's Not That Funny It's Just That It's a It's a Good Depiction of What Went on When There Was No Reins on the on the Farm Industry so I Was a Resident in San Antonio and I Have a I Had the Three Friends That Were Pretty Successful Timekeeper Junior Brian Brian Was Running One of the First Internet Casinos Which Side Outlook Which He Came Three Wells of Fourth-Year Residents That Had Need You to Come down to Curaçao with Me Defer Residency and Help Me Start This Internet Casino This Internet Thing You Talk about That's Going to Go Away Not a Smart Business Move on My Butt and Junior Was Playing Ball for the for the Symptoms Reported on Time so I Go Visit Him And It Would Just Take Us out and Read up on Drivers Driving Us around in the Great Time Hanging out Players and Stuff Go Visit Brian It's in Curaçao and Same Thing You Know He's Got Everything Set up for Me with the Guy Showed up You Living on the Beach with Those Beautiful Coral Reef Guy Shows up Wakes Me up and You You Can the Judges Come on Bryan's of Them Taking Scuba Diving Have Never Been Any like It's Not That Big of a Deal Just to Go up Go down Breathe in Breathe out so You Know the Tooth Still Live in Omaha the Time and Your Former Roommate and He Was Working While I Was in Med School so He Took Care Of A Lot so I Got All His Pressure the Schedule to Come Visit Me in San Antonio Broker Mike How Do I Show These As a Good Time so Viagra Had Just Launched And I Was Friends with the Viagra Rep and They Had Big Pockets Those Pfizer Pfizer Initially Started with Their Clinical Trials so That Viagra Would Become the Return Work out a Blood Pressure Medicine Due To the Whole Story Donna I Did yet What I've Been Told since yet Absolutely It's a Basically in Phase 3 Clinical Trials the Blood Pressure Wasn't Dropping All That Much When People Returned the Medicine It Was Very Distinct but Most of the Men Did Not Return It Like What's Going on so That Had to Bring Them All Back in with Okay We Are Not Going to Save Lives Via Blood Pressure but We Learn the New Thing That This Drug Does Do That It Became the Little Blue Pill and at the Time That Became Just That Could I Talk to Reps That Just like That You Just Drew the I Mean Absolutely Walked in and They Would Kick Other Reps out to Do It Come Come Come Come on so That in Mind a Calm up And He Is Man Just Set up a Whole Day I'll Handle All Show up at Every Location And Pick up Pick up the Tab so I'm like Okay Were to Do Lunch Here And so He Shows up Is like What's up Guys Meets Everybody Gives Credit Card Goes up I'll See If the Golf Course and Then Went to Lock Inter Golf Course He Was Waiting There Use What's up Guys Wanted and Just Covers Everything He Does Give Mo If You Sleep the Balls Rentals the Whole 9 Yards Were to Put Some Drinks On on the Card Now and Just Cover Everything and He Goes to Know You Guys Are Done Where You Plan on Having Dinner out like a Euro Bob Aceto-Seems Are Currently Either so We Play a Whole Round of Golf La Hunter Is Beautiful and It Was Really Great Day We Go We Need a Pop See Those Then He Shows up Is like You Guys Have a Good Day Yeah and This Is the Thank You so Much Really Appreciate It Picks up the Tab the Whole Thing Then Goes out to His Truck Comes Back in and Gives All of Us a Case of Viagra Mrs. 23,000,009 Yeah It Was a Long Time Ago Still Resident Was the Fellowship and so You Know to Click a Case of My Argument That You You're Young Enough Your Site In Fact I Got Too Many of the Thing That This Thing Happens There Are Causes so What I Need to Realize That You Walk around with Gold for Any of My Friends or Friends That Love like You Got One like Sojourner Truth Said That He Take You Back to the Nine Is like Hello Get This Thing Supposed to Do That so There's Some Low Some of the Players Will Team like Yeah So We Did Our Whole Day We Had so Much Fun We Bonded His Friends I've Had since Childhood and to This Day That's Referred to San Antonio I Got That I Will Not Know but That's a Great Example of the Liberties That Drug Reps Had at That Time That's Deadly before the Farmer Packed Absolute Was Initiated in 2000 Blind or Something like That Were Basically to Big Pharma Groups Got Together That's Really It Is Very I Guess That 25% Marker 30% Mark of Me Working in the Pharmaceutical Industry to and That's When Things Change so When I Was a Drug Rep I Kind of Fell into It I Wanted to Get into Research And Sharing It up Bringing Us on and They End up Having to Reallocate What Words They Were Losing the Patent on Claritin so the Idea of Them Paying for Us to Go and Research They Were like Look We Don't Have a Job for You There Anymore but If You'd like to Be a Drug Rep so That Talk to Some People That It Done It and I Said I Guess I Can Do That the Biggest Selling Point Was There He Lived at Him Mother the Easiest Thing You Just Get up You Find It a Doctor to Make Friends with the Technical Play Golf the Time I Played A Lot Of Golf Is like This Is Great So Basically I Was Being Paid to Play Golf Then Weight the Territory Was Huge but I Met A Lot Of Different People That's Scone on Primary and Family Practice Docs They Don't Get a Whole Lot of Attention by Comparison to Specialists so at the Time It Was Really Easy to Begin to Find Somebody in Each Town and That Time You're Only Competing for Market Share Wasn't What I Learned Was It Wasn't about That Script Count or Have the Volume to Increase It Was Just What Is Your Market Share and Are You Increasing in Your Category Your Share of the Pie for for Our Business and That's That's Really All I Came down to but I Do Have One of the Funnier Stories That Happen to Me Occurred with a Guy Made Friends with A Lot Of News If Any Practice Dog Internist Super Cool Guy and I Liked A Lot And He Was a Great Dock and I Working I'd Been Laid off from Sharing a Went to Go Work for Roshan Roche the Time Had Just Launched Two Drugs One Was the Tamiflu Which It's Still around Today Great Drug Right and the Other One Was Xenical You May Recall It the Generic Name Afford the Time Was Orlistat There's a There's a Small Composited Similar to Cult or Orlistat I Am Sorry That Was It Orlistat in a Way That the Pringles Document What It's Called Outlook You Have Any It Regardless What It Did Is It Blocked the Absorption of Dietary Fat Which Is so Funny Where We Are Now Knowing That Fats Actually It's Missing from Our Diet but This Xenical Was Positioned to Help People Lose Weight There Were over Consuming Fat and Was Going to Block Approximately One Third of the Dietary Fat from Being Absorbed Now Knowing What We Know Now That's It That's Danger Written All over the Little Dress Olestra SIS Was Added to Pringle so It's Very Similar to Orlistat Will Regardless We Were Pitch on This Idea to Take Xenical out to the Masses and Say for Your Patience It Will Lose Weight Just Add Xenical Taken Three Times A Day with Your Meals and It Will Prevent the Absorption of This High Calorie Fat and Your Patience Will Begin to Lose Weight the Problem Was It Wasn't Covered by Insurance Was Running Well over $100 a Month and There We Weren't Really Trained That Well on the Side Effects Will I Go to the Addition That I Had Made Friends with Aaron Lubbock and He Said No I Doubt I'll Give It a Try And Normally When I Wanted to See Him We Go Back to His Office We Exchange Jokes Laugh a Little Bit in E Is a Busy Docking He Had Gone the Rest of His Day One Day I Walked in Probably about the Second or Third Time I'd Remind Him about Using Xenical As a Walking He Sees Means like Hell Khmer Let Me Show You Something Tell How Cool Throwing a Funny Little Story for Me and He Said Hey I Used Xenical in Some Patients like Great like Sword Sorting Great He's like When Were You Gonna Tell Me about That As Soil Oreo I Never Heard of This Compound Word before Amsoil so My Hello What Is It He's like Cool That's What I Said Is He Says I Prescribed It He Named So-And-So and I Was like Yeah and He Said so Was a Small Enough Town That You Knew the Person Now I Know the Person He Does throughout Her First Name so He Said so I Give It to Her and in Lubbock There Is a Young Girl She/He Carries out until United United Market Street He Said She Is in United She's Just in the Produce Aisle Man in Her Own Business Shop in Away and She Took the Xenical and Will Essentially She Thought She Had a Small Little Fark Eric You Know What She Did As I Shorted I Dennis I Don't Know She Blew As Soil All the Weight She Was All over Her Pants and I Said Although She Did to Gift Yeah She Did It He's Laughing You Know Is What You Think You like This Is My Drug Got No Answers and I'm Also like I've Been Abandoned Because No One Told Me This Was Going to Happen and so Is He Begins to Keep Talking about He Said You Want to Know How I Know Is like Dana and so He Said Because She Hobbled All the Way out to the Car so She Could Take off Her Ass Oil Pants and Notice It Also Got into One of Her Shoes and She Brought into Me in the United States Now and I Looked at As I Show Them to You I Don't Have Any Sense of the Really Funny like Why Don't You Get on the Horn and Find out What It Is Were Supposed to Do about This Because I Can't Keep Recommending Something That You Had This Kind of Thing Will Basically Button There Was If If There Was a Graph There's We Launch Is No Complaint It's Flat It's Flat a Flat about Five Weeks after Launch Is Suddenly There's a Spike in Its Complaint and Then We Ate We Got on a Conference Call in a Conference Call All Roshan Buddy Represented As an Account They Said Don't Worry You Need to Instruct All of Your Physicians That Their Patients Are Not Losing Electrolytes It's Just Fact so I Immediately like We're Supposed to Go Back and to Okay If They Blow It out Immediately Played at the Scenario Okay I'm Eating I Don't Know And in a Pizza Place and All the Sudden Eyes Blowout Oilman like Never You Got Diarrhea Nothing to See Here Is a Way His Weight Loss and You're Making Fun of Me so Regardless That Was a Really Odd Scenario and Then Later on They They Basically Had to Recant Their Their Approach with All of That Will with Solaris about That Is I Was Told No You Trying Find the Name of the Product That They Switch from the Drug That the Food Industry Decided I Use at Work and Use It yet Will Make Fat-Free Pringles and so I Googled It and the Person That Comes up Is Pre-Pringles Equals Leakage Excellent Very Disgusting Review of Pringles Fat-Free Potato Chips These Gut Wrenching Olestra Chips Are Awful Now We Know about That in That in the Weight Gain in America Is Once We Stopped Eating Fat Minutes There's a There's a Well-Known Grafted When Butter Consumption Went down In Margarine Was Created People Began to Get Heavier It's Mostly Black and Bad Anyway so What You Know It's It's Really One of the One of the Craziest Tales Where Someone in Your Position and You Have Given Much Different Job Now Could You Not, Primary Care but Some in Your Position Back Then You're Really on an Island and You're Not with Oh I Love the Fact Is I've Had a Reps Commander Also Him and Will Have the Side Effect And Then They Will Come Back and Will Have a Retort to Robert so He Can Call in and Then the Higher Ups How Can They Sit in the Room like Highlights or Have a Little This Know This Ass Leakage Thing Here or You Know Ass Oil Blowout What We Told Reps Just Limits Work I We Were Blown Away That Was the Response a Man like Looking at the Phone like This Is on Believable But It Didn't Really Matter so Cal Is Not around Really Anymore I Don't Think No I Think It's an Over-The-Counter Thing Called Ally Now Took the Same Thing Limit Check Oh Wow Did Not Know so They Take Ally Orlistat Yes You Are Is It Does It List Banal Leakage Is a Side Effect on Their Over-The-Counter Fiction They Don't Have To Lose the Side Effects at $69 at Walgreens 69 Mile Another Thing They Had Us Worried about Was That When They Did Have To Go out There I Now Know That They Did Had the Foresight to Know That You Needed to Make Certain That Your Fat-Soluble Bottoms like ADE and K Were Were Appropriately Consumed Because You're Blocking the Fact of the Way That They Absorb Right so As You Know What It Was Was Still Available I'm Thinking for My Severely Severely Constipated People for the Bathtub This Year. Now That the Reason It's Still out There Is Because There Is Some Female That Going to Florida and She Got Again in Her Bikini and Asked Linkage and All She Going to Do Well Nice Yeah Well That's the Funny Part Because That's the Misconception You Know I've Had A Lot Of Patients Abuse Laxatives Thinking That Thinking That There Having Weight Loss All That Is Just Electrolytes the Reason Why You Get Bloated It's Not Your: That's Because Whenever You Eat the Bacteria in Your Small Bowel Start Breaking It down That's What Causes I BSD Data Instance or You Know You Cannot Fix IBS D As We Learned Earlier But You Know Doing Your Fecal Microbial Transplant He Saw That Look like You're like like Your Ticket around Back All These Things Are Going to My Head like Do I Know Is Some Stranger on the Date Which Is Mars a Stranger Some Do Not Know What I Really Can't Really Kick Shake so This Still Exists Because the Misconception That Fat Is Bad Exists And People Are Desperate to Do Something People Really Want to Take a Pill It's Not That's Why It's Important for Us to Continue to Talk on Shows like This and Trying to Educate Because I Would Hate to Have Somebody Have No past Soil Do An Acyl Show but Just Really Trying to Get into the As I Think You Should Coined That Term Yeah Well I Can't Say He Owns It Is a Trademark That Turned out Okay Well I You Know You Are about to Share Story We I Wanted to Stop Short Because I Want You to Tell It That Fresh on the on the Mic so You Had You Get Some Interesting Experiences As a Reference of Stories As Well It's Amazing How Similar the Story Is Right It Was in The Primary Care Setting I It Was You Described This Is As Being a Doctor Friend of Yours Right Same Deal I Mean This Is a Great Relationship Dock And in the Relationship Is Really Important at Launch Right When You're Trying to Launch the Drug Because Relationship Will Will Typically Eight and It Is It's All the Yacht Is It Has To Be a Legitimate Product and and You My Friend This Doctor Would Always Say That If It's a Legitimate Product and You Can Show Me Legitimate Doubt of How to Get Help Patient Then I Will Give It a Try Right and That's That's What You Get from That Relationship Is That That Initial Trial at Launch Right in This This Guy Would Always Would Always Give Me a Shot Right I Got My New Product in My Bag Anything and Said Right so like I Have Built Right It's a Pain Relief Medication and the Medication Had Been out for A While but They Had Reformulated It to Be in a Nasal Spray Right so Pain Relief Nasal Spray Is What We Got Okay That Were Bringing into to Dock Here so We Were All in There and It's Man I'm so Excited I Got Some New Euphoria… Met the Old Medication Was Not Taken As a Pill Is Taken As an Injection so That's Why It Was That's Why the Nasal Spray Application for Such a Big Deal Was Total so Rhymes with Cora Dall so Anyway I Roll in with My New Spray Application Pain Is Very And Talk at This New Product Here's the Here's the Data This Is Why You Want to Use It These Are the Patients It's Going to Help You Know Going to the Whole Thing and He's like Yeah Man I You Know I Really like That Product This New Application Might Make It Palatable for More Patients I Will Definitely Give It a Shot Any Side Effects Similar to What What What Side Effects Got Her Saying Everything That You Know but That's All the Guile and You Know It's on It's Very Clearly Stated on Our PM Title PCI Here Here Is You Know What You Can Expect Right and to Get to Market the Market Size They Have the List All Side Effects but Remember the Studies That They May Be of Varying Sizes and so and What People Complain about the Tolerance of Different People so Well in To Be Fair This Product Had the Way They Had Measured This Side Effect Was in the Percentage of Patients That Experienced It but They Didn't Figure That the Degree like I Experienced It Only 10% of People Have Soil Right Hundred Percent of Those People Really Blow It out and Select Turn out to Be a Deal Right so I Come Back Really Freaking Excited about You Know That He Try This Product and Commit Hey Doc How Was It and He's Just Laughing Just Laugh and He Is There. What That's Good or Bad Are You Laughing As I Now Know You Got A Lot Of This Is and What Are You Talking about YouTube Video Loaded on His Phone Ready from You Right so He Plays the the U2 City Arts and Film Themselves or How This Will Know This Was Something That He Had Seen Online Rhino Totally so It Wasn't the Patient Any Patient That He'd Given It to You of His Own Right It Was Just Something He Enter He Was Doing His Own Research on It or Whatever the Deal Was This YouTube Video Comes across and so It's This Gentlemen Standing in His Kitchen I Got This New Product for My Doctor Watch What This Does Right like Okay Whatever List I Got This And the Dude Shoots It up His Nose and I'm Instantaneous Is like Somebody Standing across the Room with a Rifle Is No Is Riding around on the Floor in Pain so We Got His Wife I Guess but Essentially We Have a Pain Reliever That Causes More Pain Than What You Initially Had to Take It in the First Plant Is so Brilliant Yeah but We Want to Know While You're on the Ground Did Your Elbow Hurt I Wonder How Many Different Stories like That That Is Crazy I Know What Is It Another Funny Story That I Had Is Briefly Work For Another Company I and Just like You Mentioned I Think Earlier That To to Be Someone Who Is Experienced in the Pharmaceutical Industry You've Got a Gross of Tough Skin on How Long You Let Your Your Team Is Going to Be with a Particular Company Because They Get Acquired They Merged Layoffs Occur Whenever People's Patents Is All Kinds of Different Things so I Had to Move to Yet Another Company Loose A Lot Of Unsorted Rep There's A Lot Of Ideological Moves That Take Place like I've Had Managers That One Lives in Fort Worth One Lives Here They Made Him Switch Territories Even Though Someone Had to Now Manage Fort Worth I Just like It's Weird with the with They Do Not Understand the Formula Either It Often Feels like the Directions Coming from the Northeast Where A Lot Of Them Are Based and Then to Them the South and West Is Just ZIP Codes and They Don't Realize How Large They Are Sick and Switching Them to Be Problem Is Inconsistent to You so You Go from Company to Company and They Don't All Do It the Same Way That's That's the Thing That's Crazy to Me Right Is That It There's Not One Formula for How All These Companies Operate Right You Go to 11 That's Why You Never to Your Point You Never Know What to Expect Them You Never Know What Can Happen I'm Sorry I I'm Sorry I'll Never Know… I Think That Now That the Environment around the Pharmaceutical Reps Are Some of the Farm Acting in the Way There's the Sunshine Act And How Everybody's Enforced The Exchange So That They Can Basically Preserve the Integrity and Representation of the Medications Some of the Environment Because One of the Companies I Started with There Was Two Training Sessions I Was I Went to the Second And We All Heard about the First One Because the First One Everybody Apparently Showed up in That I Have Everything Is in Place in North Carolina in the Research Triangle and They Basically Had New Rules That Were Written up for How They Wanted People to Conduct Themselves at This Meeting They Apparently Didn't Make Clear the Last One so They Apparently Think They Brought in Twentysomething, I Don't Know Fortysomething People for the First Training Session and Ours Is about the Same but I Think Seven of Those 41 Employed Anymore by the Time That We Got There Because They Had Partied Too Hard Fall in the Pool And I and All Kinds Just Crazy Shenanigans All over This Hotel so Course They to Restructure the Way That That What It Sounds like What Occurred before We Got There Was the Product If You Are Gonna Make a Movie about. The Wildness They Can Occur in a Convention like That Are a True Sales Training Session They Had It's about Time We Got There like Were All Eating Here Were All Going to Do This Long I Go to Bed and in Fact I Think It Was Back When the Carolina Hockey Team Was Was in the Playoffs and They Are Dead the Red Wings Are Stained Hotel Reverse Is Pretty Wild But Anyhow so the Environment Changed Quite a Bit But Even When I Did It I Was Able to Take Positions to Golf You Can't Do That When I Did Everything Was Done on Paper I Think Everything You Do Is Tracked Digitally to the Computer How Many Calls That You Do and It's It's Far More of a Science Tell Me about the Story That You Did Where They Were Kind of Forcing You to Spend Your Budget the Much in and in and Maybe Similar yet Still Different so for Me They Measured a Smart Activity on How Involved Were We in Our Territory And A Lot Of That Can Anti-Entertainment Budget You Had a Budget and You Think When You First Got That That Meant Okay This Is My Maximum Number to Spend but That's Not the Game the Game Was If You Not Spend That Budget and Asking to Spend a Little Bit More You're Probably Not Working Hard Enough All My Territories Rural And My Market Share at That Time Was Great and I Really Didn't Have Anywhere to Do It To Spend the Money but I Got a Call from a Manager Eric They Notice That You're Not Spending Everything All You Know Every Month It Leases Court Can Make up Whatever That's What That's That's Ridiculous so I Just Started Going and Buying Tons of Hamburgers Now We Go to the East Out Of Wichita Falls and Hang Them out to People Who Couldn't Afford Food and so I Did the Same Thing in Ardmore I Did the Same Thing a Bunch of the Small Towns I Was Calling on What I Didn't Expect Is One Time I Was Handing out Hamburgers in Ardmore and One of the Docs I Called on the Time Drove by But before Windows Office An Eyewitness Always Liked You Handing out All Those Burgers As I Yeah Is like What You Doing That for and I Told Him Why Did He Said That's the Best Use of the Budget I've Ever Seen You Got Awesome and Then He Moved It Needed Change Classifications He Was Already Using a Particular Type of Medication It Was Just Our Competitor But He Moved over Using Our Stuff Simply Because I Was Using Our Budget to Give to Two People Who Can Afford Food to Be Quite Honest I Do I Get Coming I Realize That My Staff Gets to Enjoy When Companies Come in and Bring Us Lunch Which Is Kind of a Little Pick Me up for the Staff but Benefits Just Me and the Staff That Enjoyed so Much of Be like Look Just Donate the Money Tell Me What You Donated Will Sit down and Talk Yeah Because I Get a Little Sunny and I Was Come on Man I Call the Guy up to Take My Three Buddies out for a Whole Day It's Unlimited Glasshouse Amine but As We Age We Realize While Truly Did You Start Realizing That It Comes Back to Want to Account for the Stuff You Feel Little Weird Were No but Then the Flip Side of It That's a Way to Get Some Samples Where We Can Then Give It to People That Can Afford It All Type Hamburger Thing to Know If You Need This Drug Going with Him Again It Is by Having Somebody Come to My Office I Signed for I Can Help Somebody out That Way Also and You Don't Some of the Cost of It Is Cooked in the We'll Get 30 Seconds Left So Travis What Do You Wear Your Parting Words of Wisdom Die.Thanks for Having Just Been a Blast This Is Fine You Guys Have a Good Time Here Right This Is Great You Guys Keep Doing This Is the Trail We Left on the Show Every 30 Minutes All Y'all Did Was A Lot I Think We Have a Couple First and Show a Team Will Title This One Acyl Will Love It and Be Sure like It Should Get Your Project Go to YouTube YouTube Search You Get Your Project Need to Get Check Project.com Let Us Know He Shared We Will See All Episode 1900 This Is the Only 24 Hour Take Anywhere Platforms Dedicated for Food and Fun We're Spooning Are You Paying Full Price for Gas If You Can Get Cash Back Every Time You Fill up Your Gas Tank the New Get Upside Gaslamp Get You Cash Back Discounted Hundreds of Local Gas Stations You Can Save up to $0.25 per Gallon since the App Launched People and Earned over $10 Million How Does It Work You Open the Get Help Side Applicants He Offers Nearby All Kinds of Brands BP Exxon Shell and More Choose the One You Want Fill up and Take a Picture of Your Receipt You Get Cash Back in Your Account and Can Cash out Any Time Download Again Upside Gas App and See for Yourself Download the Free Get Upside out Now in the App Store or Google Play to Save up to $0.25 per Gallon When You Buy Gas Use Promo Code Auto for $0.20 per Gallon Bonus on Your First Tank That's up to $0.45 per Gallon on Your Next Tank Just Download the Free Get Upside up and Use Promo Code Auto Save Money on Gas on Every Fill up Just Download the Free Get Upside out and Use Promo Code Auto UTO Visit Get Upside.com for Terms Number One Number Two Employee Jamie Jamie This Is Your Daily Peptalk I Know It's Been Rough Going Ever since People Found out about Your A Cappella Group Matt Harmony but You Will Bounce Back I Mean You're the Guy Always Helping People Find Coverage Options with the Name Your Price Tool It Should Be You Given Me the Peptalk Now Get out There That High Note and Take Matt Harmony All the Way to Nationals This Is Sorry The Interest of Any Affiliate by State Law
Brandon Brown is non-traditionally trained sous chef at Flower Child, a top health restaurant in Dallas, TX. Brandon has personal experience in living in dealing with a parent that suffered from ALS, learned how to deliver home health care, and then worked his way up through the ranks of creating incredibly nutritious dishes at a premier restaurant.
https://www.iamaflowerchild.com/
https://lovemytummy.com/spoony
https://gutcheckproject.com
Kiran Krishnan is a microbiologist that has made huge waves in health and microbiome science. Well beyond concepts, Kiran has helped engineer, create, and study Spore probiotic delivery systems. It is incredibly unique in that before Microbiome Labs' data, there was almost no conclusive evidence to demonstrate probiotic efficacy en vivo (in humans/living animals).
Kiran shares with GCP the basics of natural vaccination that we all should be doing everyday.
https://microbiomelabs.com
https://gutcheckproject.com
https://kbmdhealth.com
https://lovemytummy.com/spoony
Hey hi Mandy if you don't know me it's probably because I'm not famous but I did start a men's grooming company called Harry's the idea for Harry's came out of a frustrating experience I had buying razor blades most brands were overpriced overdesigned and out of touch and here is our approach is simple here's our secret we make sharp durable blades and sell them at honest prices for as low as two dollars each we care about quality so much that we do some crazy things by world-class German blade factory obsessing over every detail means were confident in offering 100% quality guarantee millions of guys have already made the switch to Harry's so thank you if you're one of them and if you're not we hope you give us a try with the special offer get a Harry starter set with a five blade razor weighted handle shave gel and a travel cover all for just three bucks plus free shipping just go to Harry's.com and enter 5000 at checkout that's Harry's.com code 5000 enjoy good morning it is that God check project I may agree or hear with your host Dr. Ken Brown what's going on again and we got all kinds of good on this is kind of exciting show because we did a remote location with a really really cool guy Kieran Krishnan get on condition and get on so we ended up taking all of our equipment down to IFN that's the functional medicine meeting and we film the podcast with him and I think it's fantastic it really is some of the coolest microbiology an incredible explanation so the second hour or second hours are to be amazing and it's so cool this is actually really cool because we can look into the future and say we know 100% that we are going to deliver in the second hour because he did an awesome job there's lots of eye-opening anecdotes that I will call them anecdotes they would they were just new in concept the way that he said the but the look back you like it just makes sense it just makes sense he deed he is the backrub microbiologist behind mega spore and it's a spore-based probiotic were going to get into that whenever we have them on the show here and I think if if you have ever been interested in taking a probiotic absolutely have to listen to this because he has a lot of evidence about the industry probiotics how many people are making probiotics that are really not on the up and up and that we know where the product is coming from oh we covered that we covered why a soil baseboard biotic is much better and then with deep dive into the science of how it does so I really really like that that whole podcast that we did with them I did to if you are new to the gut check project this is the gotcha project with your host Dr. Ken Brown we check our egos at the door because nothing is off the table and you may already want to know I saw your post we can Winfrey outrun teal and keeping the CBD so let's just get straight to a doctor can what should they do if they would like to win the signature protection package for signature protection package go to gut check project sign up subscribe share and do they have take a picture of it to get the get enrolled how does it work they want take a screenshot just so that you happen to win when we will draw a winner in the mid part of July actually at least five winners if the if the numbers keep coming in online iTunes like they are now we may have more than five winners which would be great but you can go to iTunes or YouTube search get check project basically subscribe take a screenshot you wish but then go to get your project.com connect let us know that you subscribe and then you're entered that's all there is to it subscribe to let us know get your project.com search for gut check project on YouTube and or iTunes and dad tell a friend about because the more we grow the more giveaway that's all there is to absolutely and if you are enjoying this let us know so that we can keep doing what y'all want to hear about note no doubt so when you reconnect you'll see that you can you can actually suggest guests topics for the show we've already been able to book some in advance with with some of those it suggestion so really looking forward to that today you'll get a glimpse of one of those suggestions they came from a friend of ours named Bridget a little over a year ago when she knew that we wanted to have a show and this this delivers if you've ever really wondered what is it about probiotics that even mean anything and my taking the right one I promise if you're not taking one for mega sport or a mega mega spore a micro biome Lansing to get that right sorry for someone there then you're probably not taking a reputable or a probiotic the can and should prove that it's worth so as we launch the KB empty box we get a lot of feedback from people they will know what's in the box and one of the reasons why you're going to have two really cool things which is trying to heal and mega spore is because in this podcast he explains how the polyphenols not trying to actually augment the spore base biotic and you can improve your health and improve the diversity of your micro biome with that no doubt in on top of that the biggest hang at that you had long ago is how do I even know these probiotics of people are taking are getting to work where I need them to work if you're here ingesting them and their encapsulated in their breaking open the small bowel that the model does cut hole in your billing is pouring a bunch of stuff that is it makes sense he essentially addresses all of that in talks why the science behind spore-based probiotics is the answer so I went on Melanie Avalon's new show called the Melanie Avalon showing I got on Monday and we talked exactly like this that when you listen to guys like Eamonn Quigley who have been studying probiotics for 40 years the thing that he says the best as we can they do amazing things in a petri dish we just can't get them to replicate that in the human body because it's very very complex we get into big detail about how that actually happens how many people have we had come to the G.I. clinic who have said I had G.I. distress or whatever that whatever sentiment was happy but I had G.I. distress and then begin to take a probiotic and it went away for a little while and then after name the time interval for weeks six weeks 12 weeks whatever it is suddenly they returned to that feeling of the symptoms and often times what I hear is it was worse and so basically it's your the idea environment applying what Kant said correctly is that taking the wrong delivery system of probiotics is actually just dumping bacteria would know doesn't necessarily belong so when I see these people with really bad natural overgrowth say hello and they start taking the way worse that gives me a hint of what's going on sure the Cedars-Sinai protocol Dr. Pimentel is a little let the patients take probiotics now to Ron has some great research showing that the spore based biotics can actually help with leaky gut intestinal permeability I think it's funny because patients go oh I've tried probiotics before but that's a lot like when people say oh I tried to CBD before right and the like I didn't get any response Michael CBD is a lot like the supplement industry there's a lot of products out there which they do not show in the manufacturing process is not on the up and up so that's how come we see some of the people to take the KB MD CBD and the like wow I really feel a huge difference and it's because we know exactly with with a certificate of analysis how many milligrams is actually in the and we know we do a whole series of videos about why your body needs CBD tell me about the dosing of CBD so if any of you have any questions about that you have with CBD sent them over so that we can do videos and put them out there and trying to educate my job here is to educate everyone on the science of these different things always know the gut check project check your ego at the door and start relearning everything and that's what I had to do a CBD that's what I'm doing with probiotics right woman launching his boxes as part of it so the first box that were that were launching the ingredients that we put in there the Meigs point out front children work together and there there to begin to heal your gut then I put in life extension comprehend the digestive enzymes so that you can make sure that you can absorb all your micronutrients I want to protect your brain and we put in their organic tumor from Omega and they have is really cool blend of putting an animal which has been shown to help with insulin sensitivity and ginger which is been shown to help with digestive issues so those four things right there and then we threw in something really cool something called truancy try our US II now I recently I replied discover this because my patients were told me about it and member boxers saying that so many of the other influencers were having really good success with its Western look of the science micronized hydrogen as it turns out micronized hydrogen nanoparticles of hydrogen can actually help at a cellular level decrease inflammation so here were protecting your gut and then all these things added upward and thrown a couple of the really cool products a lot of people take apple cider vinegar so we went with Vermont Village organic flavored apple cider vinegar that actually taste good and the special guest from or special gift from me to everyone that signs up in addition to that we should say that anybody that signs up for the KPMG member box we do not have CBD in it yet because there's a lot of regulatory stuff going on but you will be given a discount is that correct they can I resend you sign up you'll get access that nobody else gets on CBD with KPMG CBD being a certified COA product already so you know that it's authentic it's already priced is the best value high quality CBD bits available anyhow simply sign up for the KPMG box KPMG box.com you will then be able to get price access to KB MD CBD that's not available on really anywhere on the web so absolutely and so this is legitimate still the old adage membership has its privileges except that's what were trying to do to be of the community when you get on that you're getting $250 with the product sent to you they are going to get IC work in my patients that's the key to this is that I see these things work or adding a little bit more and it's over $103 savings so you like to be able to find these products cheaper anywhere they come right to you and then with the feedback we get working to continue to evolve organ to get more products and were to be able to add more work to get me it's gonna be really fun in addition to being able to get discounts on CBD just add to it so simply what what I believe can you're saying is that this is an opportunity if you take supplements whatsoever that you're going to get settlements that work going to get them all for a price it is inaccessible to essentially like Costco for healthcare providers is as suggestions right and then we don't just talk about the science or the claims on the label weeks we essentially just tell you all of the benefits that it can be scientifically proven for this product that's in there what actually is happening for you is your benefit correct exactly and then when you sign up you get access to this big marketplace so Rivard had several people that built in addition to what's already getting the writing a few other things and and this is gonna be a really fun exciting time as we launch this it's an opportunity to change the landscape of health I want to see what happens with people I would love to see will go back into the regular doctor and find out that these great things are happening like oh my my insulin sensitivity is improving because we know that multiple products in their actually help with that oh and sleeping better just know that the magnesium in the truancy can help with that working to start doing that and then as we get feedback from everybody were you learn hey can you do something and similar patients of Artie been asking about this hey I have a I take a supplement for my eyes anyway that we can get on their gnomelike reward are working to get that product on this marketplace so that you can get it at a huge discount so it's good to be a really really fun exciting hopefully life-changing experience for anybody that signs up this is essentially an environment where it is totally consumer driven it's done for the benefit of the consumer and it's essentially like walking to the store saying this work for me does this work for me and then turning back to a physician insane I would suggest this one actually I don't know so much about that one and which is really cool and that's what a lot of people are looking for whenever the china shop and then everybody that's involved in this community there's a lot of other healthcare providers we've got gynecologic experts would get functional medicine doctors we got chiropractors we have health nutritionists and were all bouncing ideas off each other so I can find out that's our thought about truth he actually right like now you you have to try this it's awesome and it's incredible to value that were getting on that so this is going to be really neat I just want to see this happening of course percent money back guarantee go to KPMG box.com check it out check it out well to move forward Dr. Brown I didn't want before we got down to the topics I was going to ask you what's going on with the oldest tennis player and your family so Lucas Lucas right now is with his coach in Haverford Pennsylvania playing in IETF which is the International tennis Federation it's the I guess it's 18 and under Junior pro circuit were international people can come from all over it's a grass court tournament so these pictures are just beautiful is it some country club yes were all white just like your going to Wimbledon right Wimbledon has the same rules so they treat it just like that and he's doing really well apparently this grass surface suits his game because he is in the semifinals playing tomorrow he's got today off and then play in the semifinals tomorrow so and the boys can be playing as a is from Thailand okay and he he lives in Florida at one of the at one of the Database and Seleucus knows of him to his boy to start accounted go round is a few years older but the own so hopefully we'll see what happens but I'm just probably got here all the way on grass yet picture that you show this like they're playing on a bentgrass greenhead is out things ready Heck yeah I mean levels doesn't look like a lie would be Arctic adeptly but straight for the whole but yet is that is wild is beautiful with the boys for me are just it's all about taking a break from basketball next week being 4 July just after the listeners we won't have a live show next week because the fourth is on Thursday and have family and I are are going take a break and have two out to Colorado for a couple days to get out of the heat in Texas which actually has been a bad so far this year but I while we were getting ready for the show something I thought was really funny have we been looking at or hearing so much about how people found meat replacements have you seen this in new commercial or for RVs it was on online so we just look this up somebody texted Eric said yeah this is a check out the new Arby's Arby's unveils vegetables made from meat where there they now have meat carrots sort of a fight back against the whole but it's the amazing what's what's everybody doing Usha Patrick what had there is beyond beyond meet an impossible barter that since this is the fight back you have the lease they basically took me shape it is a ^ relevant ^ dusted and cooked it pretty it's pretty it's pretty interesting pretty awesome but Rob Wolf is the one who shared that when I was really fun that is funny so one would also really funny this past weekend that so what it was out of town and while she was out I decided to be a good hobby in those who are your car detailed and so I took it and Mike did the whole just keep it for a few hours they did the inside and out. You know the full on detailing proud of myself I go to pick it up driving home I don't drive a car very often and I clipped a curb or a pothole or something is went white and next and I blew a big old hold that tire nicely as so awesome it's only some found out that her accurate roadside assistance had run out and I had canceled that on our insurance because we have accurate roadside assistance why would I need that right so had neither some told this thing to tire shop on the it was on Saturday night told it left it discount tire whatever was going to fix it the next day will are closed on Sunday and I saw Lloyd arrive Sunday night not only are you mentally cannot brag about me washing the car detailing the car it's I pretty much screwed it up so it's that there will have to do tomorrow hey man it was the intention it matters thank you hope yeah exactly well what he got didn't say in the corner I know that we got you have kicked back and forth a bunch of really cool article this last week and I didn't really know which direction you're going to go today because there's a lot there but once you had lead off with your favorite one so far well usually it's thing there's been a lot of recent news there was Melanie Avalon and I actually talked about this one which I think nobody should lose take take a look at churn and realize something there's two studies published in the British medical Journal were looked at how when people take really, refined diets that all cause mortality increases significantly and there was another study with a look that were cardiovascular events goes up so then they started looking at what it does to the micro bio just just for clarity for for refined diets were talking talking about things where people have refined sugars refined carbohydrates things that have been bleached crack like flour etc. right there were some of the so what they're actually looking at is anything that's that has that been said impacted the happy stabilizers and chef Patrick could probably expand on this but they're looking at that most of these things have emulsifiers in them they have lots of sugar and a very interesting concept they usually decrease the amount of fiber content and the reason for that is is that fiber keeps you full this is and encourage you to keep popping the chinos or whatever so check Patrick do you know what an emulsifier is when they're doing with the processed foods Yemen there and there a lot of that that but it's a binding agent modified food starch is things like that yeah it said there chemically in its natural substance chemically modified to be cheaper – you need less of it so the date they work really well as a thickening or something at texture to to breads or things like that so what they showed as these emulsifiers so those three things the emulsifier actually damages your good micro biome and then the sugar feeds bacteria that allow them to grow more the lack of fiber means that your micro biome does not use that as a prebiotic so you diversity decreases so you don't have the benefit of having your micro biome Hope you so not only do we now know that that definitely increases cardiovascular risk and all cause mortality now we've got molecular reasons of how it messes with your micro bio so it's kind of a fascinating thing because they what they showed is that when these bacteria get hurt by the emulsifier they do not they cannot break down the prebiotic's which then allows the bacteria to produce short chain fatty acids which your body works and uses as fuel in in the colonic cells so becomes this very vicious cycle that replacement of fiber I would imagine would also increase the glycemic index then of those foods making them also more dangerous correct 100% what they showed is by not having the short chain fatty acids float around inflammation in your body goes up tested so they show these animal models that cortisol and CRP go up that the reactor protein yeah and what that does this is your goal of this they showed it was the first time I've seen this that when your cortisone CRP goes out you actually block the information walks your response to leptin growling is the hormone that makes you hungry leptin conventional full so you open up a package of something you start eating and you start get in the habit of doing that on a regular basis you change your micro bio you are not decreasing in not allowing your own bacteria to help you decrease the inflammatory response of anything in short chain fatty acids go down you will get hungrier you eat more of it more of the bacteria that like that start putting out signals and so a lot of times these are when people like and why can't I quit eating this junkfood there's a cycle going on in all of this were now seeing on a cellular level what's actually happening where huge explanation so if you if if you're experiencing already some inflammation you can see it doesn't have to be anything terrible but if you have acne it obviously feeding it more of a refined food diet would simply just be feeding into the inflammation process that you're currently experiencing right exact so you got a child at home maybe this even just these four minutes is worth watching on why you need to steer away from sugary cereals for breakfast or why you need to not come straight home and turned straight to a bag of chips or something else like that because you're going to not the you not to feel full and there the right way and you're just going to can keep consuming really bad calories you wake up and you take in and those cereals that such a great example we talked about that before the show were I grew up in fruity pebbles and stuff like that I cringe at screens where is he striking about it now and now we know that your not feeding your bacteria what it really needs which polyphenols work really well to feed your bacteria we know that fiber does that as well so that you can have a very diverse micro bound the key is to have a diverse micro bio they showed that the more people that eat this they have a much more narrow spectrum so you do not have the benefit of that microbiota you want your left in response so you're always kinda hungry you never really feel full and then let's take it up once that they didn't get into this but I that she had some patients that were food chemists working for I don't I don't member Frito-Lay or some like I actually work on having more likely it's an emulsifier now that I think about it to slide more easily so that the food goes down quicker so that the Fritos go down quicker all that stuff so there's a lot of science being put into it to trying get people to open up bags and then their engineering to make you dependent upon their crappy food and it's not gonna benefit you in the long term it's so weird I mean it's actually nuts like it at some point we have to start getting involved in not letting companies destroy the general health they have the money to take out the money to make beat carrots yeah so you have these companies out there doing that and it's an uphill battle wrist we do know the epidemic of childhood obesity everything else the activities is that will yeah that that is something to do with it but what if were really messing ourselves up on a cellular level that were not even paying attention to it's so hard in the grassroots level if you're not I just like you hug I grew up on really sugary cereals I mean I'm sure if you termite clock of wouldn't want to do that it also it it's like how do you move forward how to educate your kids and for the most part I would say even though my both of my boys feel it's incredibly boring for breakfast for them weight Marine I just don't buy that that Stuff and ironically since the boys it there after the summer they've been earning their own money one of the ways he rewarded themselves they went bought a box crappy cereal you have such a downer when I see it I don't want to me I how I know you can't get Kellan to make some choices still but at the same time I look at my I just don't think they have any idea what the many Dell right they don't they don't know what it's doing Celine I think when you really young you don't feel the effects as much the truth is as much as they play sports and that inflammation they work up it's not helping them heal they are recovering we talked about that that the the original thing a breakfast being the most important part of the day was actually an ad campaign in 1940 when greatness came totally. Today I went without my normal bacon and eggs I felt great so you did intermittent fasting that I did it was also and I was still wasn't hungry until about three in the afternoon I get another really cool little tidbit that I will talk about regarding bacteria and CBD when we come back all right wow that was a quick half-hour so like and share like and share gut check project on YouTube and iTunes we will catch on the back and let us hear from you and catch a project.com if you are trying to quit drinking or doing too many drugs listen to me you don't know me and will never meet I had a problem like you want I drank and used a party a little too much till he got out of control and almost ruined my life I realize I needed help to fix my problem before it totally destroyed me if you tried to fix your drinking and drug problem and you know you can't do it alone you need to call the national treatment advisors they'll immerse you into a 30 day program to replace your old habits with new 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second half hour episode number 16 I think we said that the last half hour episode number 16 episode number 16 can't wait to get the 20 that's when they say the magic happens I know that means but I do know that our subscribers are growing so I certainly appreciate that you'd like to win your very own signature package from Dr. Brown aim KPMG health you can get your very own Arbitron teal month supply as well escaping the CBD simply by going to iTunes or YouTube or both and subscribe and share and then go to get check project.com and let us know that you did it that's all you have to do do all those things Dr. Brown these are things you see I should add that that's the signature package there is what we call the signature package skills what might what I'm trying to do is bridge the gaps and bring traditional science into natural places and right now I think that what were lacking a lot of is just data and science on CBD there's so much confusion about the reason why the signature package is because we know that the polyphenols in front he'll actually decrease the enzyme that breaks down your own and a cannabinoid site and this is that they work together to increase so that's what I was seeing in my practice when people take the CBD and otter until they feel markedly better there was there so many things to get to like there is a recent article were it was looking at how CBD actually is very effective against superbugs better than antibiotics science is pretty thick on that go to KB MD health.com sign up for KB MD box and we were to continually update that site with a lot of science new science and everything but there's another article that I found little bit more interesting than I want to cover and note out let's get to that article just died just for those who haven't done it yet because it grows every single day KPD health.com which is why you find such a project.com etc. just simply sign up for the newsletter over the next three weeks the transition is going to be huge what what kids talk about is that from KB MD were going to be able to put the science were actually the science has been explained behind polyphenols CVD diet it's for you it's for free but it's for you to be more educated spend your money more wisely stay more healthy that's really what this whole things about and we have the ability to find a lot of articles a lot of my colleagues like will there's no science Alyssa Mike no no no no there's so much science on this you just have to know where to look and you have have access to a lot of these articles right so if anybody has questions like hey what can do you have you had any springs of receiving the articles on what it does for skin issues for instance like your dermatologist does as this have any background on things like that psoriasis eczema acne all kinds of different issues oh have you seen any benefit with rheumatology words are from Bruce her arthritis word osteoarthritis will not make any claims here what I'm saying is that working to find studies and see and they had just like we did with the photo bio modulation just like we did with the stem cells we can find this stuff and really saved now this makes sense absolutely I mean really that's that was the whole idea why you started caving to health in the first place is just find a place where people can turn these the same questions that come to the G.I. clinic every single day and so now we got a place where people can turn it start find some real answers speaker questions this morning I was working out poses new Joe Rogan's podcast and he had Bob Lazar on yeah that's a space so there's a there's a new Netflix movie out there word so will trickle UFO and saucers or something I think it even uses his name is UFOs and Balthasar something honest I don't remember exactly what it's called but yeah I lazy and hours avoiding exact figure just to be one of those conspiracy type things but no ma'am he on Joe Rogan the guy sounded like he was looked legitimately scarred from the whole experience in yeah I don't want to be pain but I'll I really, want to talk to Mildred more debt than on TV has any pictures because I thought it was really honestly it seemed it seemed sincere maybe if he's that good at holding that that form for almost 4 decades and while but I mean he's he said the stores were really really long time Dennis really messed them up yeah I mean he's any heat honestly was saying I don't want to be here but I need to get the story out and while he was on Joe Rogan show it was like he was bragging or anything I was weird listening to another podcast Kim of the comedian's name is on XM radio but they were kind of trying to debunk all that and say that he was just is just crazy I'm reading an article that just came out said film on Netflix finds UFO whistleblower baubles are seeming less crazy than ever yeah will admit the funny thing is even just two decades ago and I can't remember exactly what all of them were but similar like bone scans identification systems and the fact that he said that there was a certain isotope of the hydrogen that he knew existed before and they had been scientifically denied but it turns out that a handful of the things that he declared that he had seen before are suddenly now available the bone scan machine that he described exactly as he described it is now available the isotope of hydrogen that he described almost 3 and half decades ago everyone said didn't exist sudden exist now and it's really neat he's basically like I find this is a point of vindication I have stuck to the story and that's all been documented in fact they even say they who have the proverbial they is scrubbed his name as he claims he described his name as being a student in attendance at a few different it's so that's with the other podcasts talk about the light how can you just have no measures only exist they scrubbed his name from going to MIT or something like that it was a and Cal poly Cal poly and MIT on the scrub is named after the service and the like that is impossible somebody would've known him wreck that's how come they think that he may just be craziness in his own story and sticking to it but how is there nobody else saying hey I knew that guy would school with him here she went here that's the weird part is there is there's there's people who assigned affidavits who are listed as all real students who said that yeah he was totally in school with us so it's I don't know it's a very bizarre and promising new nothing about it until I heard that same podcast I nine so I'm starting to put that yellow color online from Alpha Centauri waiting on them back to Nelly I've spent a lot of time watching videos on YouTube no no I haven't any but it's interesting it's a fascinating story he is especially I seen the new Netflix shows that were in the watch that Check Out Joe Rd. in Charlotte is what you are she watched both and I think the Joe Rogan episode is probably more informative findings that the Netflix thing is okay but the hearing Bob is talking his own voice I found far more interesting and certainly in terms the validity would be more compelling and quite honestly fencing the Netflix thing first I don't know how much Otto believed yeah he just need to seem far more genuine than just the longform phone interview Joe Rogan is such a great host he really is he saying to her and intuitive question so that without question well I to change his story over 30 years picture the phone call there yet Patrick can we only got 20 minutes we get Karana on going to hit the yeah yeah I will hit the so much like Bob Lazar said he goes this is the stuff were looking at it just could be that they like to be dumped a motorcycle on the on the street in Victorian times people are to poke around that it somebody may figure out how to turn it on this kind were he was saying that I do know there's so much will in science we do the exact same thing were to talk this next hour with Quran and probiotics in spore-based biotics because micro bombs are really big deal now after until is NSF certified that is certified for sport the reason why that's a big deals because were making sure that we get no doping agents inherent giant athletes pro athletes College athletes there's all this reaction to anti-doping and everybody keeps putting new things on the list I got a new one for you okay probiotics may become anti-doping things really if they can figure this out there so if you had what you're saying is that you can test positive for probiotics there is a chance that I would become a flag there was they were referencing that there was and I don't remember what it was but they whatever sport it was a female had much higher levels of testosterone probably curling up in public but they said for her to continue to compete at the Olympic level she has to actually decrease her testosterone by taking some sort of testosterone blocker because whatever so that there's lots of different things that can be performance enhancers what this study that just came out June 24 in nature what it talked about his elite athletes gut bacteria give Road runners a boost so this group was looking and it's pretty funny to think about the tension with anti-doping I just wonder if this will suddenly pop up on the anti-doping list what they showed is that proportions of certain bacterial species increase after endurance athletes have completed a marathon furthermore this type of bacteria that increases breaks down lactic acid and produces another compound called propionic lactic acid is what makes your muscles tired and sore and weak propionate can be used as a fuel so then I looked at another group of people and this was a series of 15 runners that their look at the Boston Marathon and they found that they look at another group on some a bunch of very elite rowers Ro's of in Olympic trials and they got very similar result basically this type of bacteria called Velma Nella or villanelle at a Tippecanoe increased in both of these groups of people so Bella Bella atypical appears two have adapted in these elite athletes to break down the lactic acid yeah informed that so is it chicken or the egg right are these people elite athletes because possibly they have a higher proportion of villanelle or did they develop develop mellow in response to constantly increasing the lactic acid in the body while so that's what this group is trying to look at so they ended up taking a bunch of mice put them on of little reels treadmills mice treadmills whatever they're called and they were able to show in the mice if they gave them Bella Nella rectally and orally they actually had decreased amounts of lactic acid now I've done that before I've gone and done I went to the to the try shop and did a whole lactic acid to push yourself as far as you can go and my lactic acid just kept going up and elite athletes it will start to go up in the middle drop because it goes back into the Krebs cycle okay so does that happen because they've got more this melanoma or doesn't happen because their elite athletes and their bodies have adapted I don't really interesting so their ability essentially to of work or outwork others because they function better in an anaerobic state the right no no once they going to anaerobic state than the lactic acid gets put back into the Krebs cycle so it can be used as fuel again okay possibly converted to now I'm thinking it's possibly being converted to appropriate okay I so I and others a lot more to it but what I find really funny is the people that did the study have a new startup called fit bionics fit bionics for bionics bionic microbiology okay right so it is really interesting to sit there there's always a go to market something to try and increase the amount of this particular species and what we do learn in the next hours is how complex it is you really just can't say only take this one I'll go back to Dr. Soltis row study were he showed people with bacterial overgrowth they tend to take probiotics that are lactate producing probiotics okay that's what almost all the probiotics you get over the counter and he showed that lactate cross the blood brain barrier which is one of the reasons why a lot of these people maybe have some brain fog it could be intestinal permeability leaky gut it could be that the lactic acid is increasing we may be using the completely wrong species maybe we should be using this species to get rid of the lactic acid and produce this propria night so interesting yeah but it's it's going to be now if you be a race now revisited to others a probiotic for sleep this a probiotic for endurance and once again it still has to make it all the way through the intestinal tract and get Rick and start of dividing more and increasing the diversity you can't just do one memory of 100 trillion bacteria in your colon over thousand species this is what this is little of the marketing hype is been around over to skim through this want you to do all kinds of things that part is a make a lot of sense either that or just to simply take a bacteria or probiotic just for one desired effect of what you would want even for sleep and no doubt that someone will market like that but it all comes down to the biodiversity of that bacteria anyhow could you if you were to load up theoretically on sleep bacteria will then would you just have lethargy all of the times he sensei not exist to make sense it's marketing on everything on every single line so this is a mouse study where they said that so they took humans they checked her poop and they go oh these guys have higher part they have a higher percentage of this particular species that must mean something then were to go to rodents were to give it to we know that trying to replicate in a mouse model in the human models extremely difficult it's the closest thing we can have because there you can't keep humans in cages and you don't control her diet will look all that other stuff so there's a lot of other studies I've seen with a like oh this particular group had higher levels of this and they were skinnier so this is going to be a weight-loss probiotic so it becomes a marketing game with the science being really difficult to prove it is mastered adding that their research that makes sense to keep doing that did you see the article he came out I just was last week were two people died from fecal transplant now some super unfortunates the first time that people have had bad outcomes from people transport you ever get real excited about the microbiota transplants and if you don't know what this is as a whole new field of science were people taking one person's poop and they emulsify it and they put it in one way or the other there's a lot of different ways to do it either through a kaleidoscope or you can go way into the small bowel and push it through more and just dead just to cover the whole array want there some people who taken frozen capsules of the of poop and then and then just basically ingesting it like normal and then that idea was it with all yeah yeah so the idea would be there with thought you'd always through my partner Dr. Stuart Ackerman what he was doing is she was getting he was getting stool from this NIH grants location were there collecting school from people they do all the make sure that there's no diseases or anything in the they bring it back and then they injected it's frozen emulsified as it goes down with the scope way into the small bowel and then just pushes it beyond the stomach acid beyond the pancreatic and where would normally all get killed its way down and there's this part on seeking go and that's what that's what he was doing but that's been shut off because the cost of the poop has gone so high that the nurse on an island or something happened where regulations are coming in the cost to test it for all these other found my game yet became prohibitive so now you know we all have poop and now it's a controlled the FDA is they made it a they wanted when the FNT first came out they wanted everyone start applying for a new drug indication just poop it's poop but enforces a big setback because two people died but apparently the prepaid toxigenic E. coli on it they didn't realize that so they took one person give to other people would use a lot in the hospital for C diff infections okay so if you take antibiotics not only can you just disrupt your micro biome but you cannot actually allow one particular species to dominate yet the dominant cold seat of Clostridium difficile and and if you ever had a relative or you've ever experienced that it is not fun and hard to get rid of the fecal transplants were working very very successful for that so it's it's unfortunate but this the first time that we had no bad outcome so people are trying to figure out how to work with this microbiota it's almost like we have the ability to test but we don't really know what to do with it Peter Peter Addie it was talk about this on one of his podcasts use and yet we have this ability to do this big gene mapping we can do PCR analysis got all these different species and overlooked the runners had this let's do that it's just not that simple at least up until this point must we cracked the code on how to actually figure that part out its own of the game you can you find different things you can detect that learning how to interpret the analysis is as a whole nether probably can alarm just understanding how to apply the science that happens every day so what you think the numbers are if we've lost these two people and they've directly attributed it to the transplant self correct out of how many oh I don't I don't know you rationalize death but the truth is it is a number everything is run through statistics and it's unfortunate that this would be a setback but I say that that we have people who will die today the in several the died yesterday in the day before that from opioid abuse and that's not stopped anybody from administering that so when you when you look at then you put it in in those kinds of of boxes it is unfortunate now we can move forward in and make certain that this doesn't happen but the fact that that really famous kid back in the 80s Ryan White who died from AIDS from a blood transfusion bleeding stop doing blood transfusions because of that we learned how to get better at doing blood transfusions yeah I think that the cycle things if if they can be sensationalized it then it's going to make the moves and fecal microbial transplants are always something that is gonna make the news because people just go what in the world and they want to read more about it than when asked questions about it been in my field for years and years decades we been trying to figure out what actually do without you know there was the their study that came out I believe is out of Yale where they took poop from skinny my scared to fat mice the fat mice got skinny and vice versa than that led to this whole study there actually trying to do this at Brigham Young's University and I will say just got published but it really didn't didn't have any weight loss affects all really desolate it worked in mice got all excited your own fun skinny people got tight trying to poop the other they got all excited that that's what was going happen but it looks like the results of work it's really interesting I wonder what the parameters were around it because I I can I figured it wouldn't be necessary that you just simply metabolize food differently it may have to also it may also include what are you can foods do you desire by having that type of bacteria inside so it is small level where mice don't make a whole lot of decisions I guess you could say they may just eat a little bit less with that fecal transfer but maybe the reason why it didn't necessarily work in this one experiment Brigham Young is because people are still left to their own their own devices or vices whenever they're out there and they can contaminate the sample that they take to buy say love get the bacteria on still going to go to fill in the fast food chain restaurant or I should lose weight I back at the bacterium now that's a really good observation because you would almost have to have them in a cage to do this because just as we talk about your left and still in blunted and do not do your document feel full you may be taking in more cows have ever done it like I did my fitness pal thingy Jack Kerry and I were doing that Bruce was log all the food but it became really cumbersome but I was eating way more calories and I thought yeah like you to sit down and up around 2500 revenues keep adding them up you like, get the handful of almonds that you walk by throw down to hundred percent you look back you try to write off the day like that's the anomaly in the realized that days just like the day before and he put forth that now I'm guilty that Rhonda Patrick just came out with a podcast with her on telomere specials telomeres are the kind of tells our age right that it's the end caps of the chromosomes and as we age they decrease and they were looking at things that directly affect the telomere length stress cortisol sugar refined foods lack of bacterial diversity same stuff that were always talking about actually can speed up the aging process so telomeres can be damaged each time basically that ourselves replicate and what we don't want from all the things you just listed is telomere shortening because that that enables the sales to age more quickly and basically if it is I understand the DNA just does not get replicated in the future with the new the new daughter cells deliver younger cells in there that's another complex thing when we are at I effeminate if you remember that but there's booths were people check your telomere length and have been not only was it real well that's what Ron was talk about when she there's so many different ways of to be affected what lab it is what you going to do with the information and now there's companies out there that are selling products to increase to llama race decreased farmers I remember whatever you think it's increased telomerase which is an enzyme that kinda protects the telomere this and just go off, have gas podcast just it's really a menu notes Rhonda Patrick sure super sightseeing geeky and with that we don't know because sometimes you want shortening as if it's a cancer cell you want that you want the body to recognize that and it'll go away and that way you don't have because cancer cells will grow so fast that you need that shortening to prevent that from happening so we don't know try to mess with telomeres is going to do something like that but the same thing keeps coming around over and over and over if you get sleep eat right you feed your micro bomb what it needs like polyphenols like spore base biotics then decrease the information with CBD then all of that your body will figure out what to do so sometimes whatever we thought articles were people going only wanted this one probiotic and you can run faster really overthinking maybe if we just kind of got rid of those refined foods the emulsifiers in the high sugar and all that stuff a huge take away here is that you can if you step back you realize that there are there are real researchers that want to make things happen that the crazy unfortunate thing is oftentimes a marketer was simply just take the data and then want to be the first to make something happen rather than make certain that the science is solid or a company has a good product and they just won a race to get out and get a second product that doesn't necessarily burying value without having the research back behind it and honestly it's that that's the really cool part of being a part of KB MD health and KBS is that we we've always tried to make certain that the data is solid for eight do no harm be sure that you can help someone before you just turn a product loose now you make me feel bad because I'm actually scratching out abdominal discomfort and putting decrease veil and Ella and then underneath that protector tell me the only product available with you faster and younger trying to get your telesales cereal today exactly that out I don't know it it's it that you don't want to paint a picture of the whole world going dark but each but if you're listening just protect yourself when you if I go to these conferences and you listen to somebody scientist like vulture long ago and these guys are doing the research and like when Rhonda Patrick talks and such and panda it's very well this is what we saw we believe this is this we can extrapolate that it's real great it's not like you see when you're talking to a marketer like privilege and will increase your memory and it's like well and wait a minute's backup was little to the studies these guys are out there and all these PhD's there not that will I find them fun but sometimes is not up on the listen to them cry don't really land on anything the light that we kind of think this is what's happening what image frustrating to the general public and in their pioneers and is probably a lot like a Lewis and Clark they made their way through their just mapping they're not necessarily saying that everything's going to be roses by the time they get out to out to the West Coast right I mean they were just finding their way there they just basically charted as it came along we talked last week about all those medical reversals where they were looking all theatrical reversals they had three they found out in the Lancet New England Journal of medicine in JAMA that when they looked back at trials they showed that 369 straight up medical reversals has taken place like we talked about where we thought estrogen was really good for every woman take a bunch that we realized it was actually increasing heart attacks so it's really complex and it's hard to sit there and say okay let's look at an article this bacteria can increase running and there immediately when I would I guess I would too if I was the scientists are like weeds do a startup right now so during the startup called for bionics but it's no different than the multibillion dollar industry that is probiotics if you talk to Dr. Quigley that's not how he describes it he just says we hope that they they were great when he say they were great in a petri dish that we just cannot seem to replicate it consistently in humans right and that's this policy that leads right into the next thing Quran Krishnan is here to explain the real data in the application in humans on what the correct type of probiotic delivery system can do for you I this is you've heard me talk like this for so long as the first time a microbiologist is going to know exactly know your you're right and here's why right this is and I studied this and so I'm really excited to get this kind information out there and very pleased that were teaming up with them for our member box so that we can put the two together and you'll see why they work together but I think it's really cool be sure to like and share the gut check project if there's anything that you want to take away from you today show you can just show the next hour to anybody who's ever been exposed to probiotics ever whatsoever you'll learn a ton I know they cannot both did Chiron is that these amazing he's very intelligent and he's got real data to show something he probably never hit up a lot of right on everybody enjoy will pick it up in about two minutes rest for this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun clear spoony fifth hour from Townhall.com, drawings could come down at any time now on to the Supreme Court's biggest cases the current High Court terrors whether the trump administration can add a citizenship question to the 2020 census supporters say it's needed to get an accurate count while critics claim it will lead to an undercount of minorities the second case involves gerrymandering and whether Democrats and Marilyn went too far when they redrew the boundaries of the sixth Congressional District slip I get from Republican to Democrat correspondent Wally Hines on the heels of last nights debate 10 more Democratic presidential hopefuls preparing to take to the stage for Tonight Show down Democratic pollster and strategist Brad Bannon calls Joe Biden the big guy tonight's debate I think he's going to be a target in this debate and he has to demonstrate that he can hold his own and that he can't make a slob corresponded Alexander Jaffe in Miami expect some fireworks during this evening's showdown you are federal health experts say the vaccine has once again turned out to be a big disappointment the vaccine did not work against the flu bug that popped up halfway through the flu season latest figures show the vaccine only 29% effective overall stocks 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like what they do with probiotics and it's a completely new way of using probiotics can rethink that well what I think for starters I just got a text from your mom did I'm done she's always listening and I will need to apologize to all investors just in case you don't like the sound level it's because I'm doing it and I don't know exactly how the engineer now here's the really really bad engineer Jeff Chef Patrick sorry as best we can do so were over here at the IFN conference in San Antonio and we you and Eric have met before different conferences I love the work that you guys are doing yellow to start with us who are you so we are a band of super nerds that that are battling the revolution that is going on within the right so we we know that and this is a way to explain it to people all the time if you look at the human construct were essentially a microbial system we are the fancy word for it for those I want to impress your friends as holo- bio hello Viola volume we are super organism were no moral can we think of ourselves as a collection of organ systems of the brain and in her lungs and heart and all I connected by neurons and vessels we are a walking talking rain forest is what we are right we are an organism made up of thousands of other organisms that have to work in concert to perpetuate the health of the collective that's what the that's what all environments make it's like a ring for Savior look at a rain forest the canopy the floor every part has a different ecology and if any of those ecologies get damaged the entire ring for sufferers so we can trace back now virtually every chronic disease to some disruption in our ecology so in our thinking we are a microbial construct were made up of microbes we've taken this amazing microbial constructs and we put ourselves in an antimicrobial world like so we've really shot ourselves in the flick like crazy everything around us destroys our inner ecology and that leads to disease somewhere here fighting that whole problem in revolution of bringing back our ecology ecology fixing the rain forest I love that I was taught I was tell my patients about I've never use the word hole while I say multi-bile talk about just your micro biome there's other things going on your exactly what we are do we live for the multi-biome or does the multivolume live for us yeah you know if you look at the evidence and you look the history essentially we are an accident because of the multifile right so even the human cell is constructed of ancient bacteria write the eukaryotic human cell is basically a concert of ancient bacteria which at which make up our what sort I'm having to bring forth the energy production of the sound might've come in my country is so ancient back arrow essentially individual mitochondria that all came together to form a eukaryotic cell building nucleus surrounded also you guys in a way back we were going back to the beginning of time rice like where all of this started from we don't understand that and how do we understand how the lungs and dutiful nice so just going back to the simplicity of it because as it turns out when we start looking at these unique multicellular organisms that we are when where a small population of what's living in the universe are there in the world we don't know what's living Universalist living on earth most of it are single cellular organisms I'm also living entities are single cellular's will relook at multicellular organisms when we look at how multicellular organisms communicate from one cell to the other all of those rules are written by single cellular organisms you know hormones for example most people are surprised to know that our micro biome and the got produces virtually every hormone or endocrine system can make writing all of the serotonin's ANOVA means all of the stress hormones all of insulin estrogen and testosterone all that is made by Mike Bynum as well in the end the thinking is that that our micro biome actually taught our endocrine system how to make those hormones so the bacteria provided the DNA code to our endocrine system to figure out how to make hormones and accurately using hormones for millions of years to communicate with one another and so we now use hormones to communicate with in our body itself this is so fascinating because in my field the micro biome is a relatively new concept in traditional medicine and here you're talking about that the micro bio actually taught our bodies how to organize how to live in the world how to move that is fascinating because what we think about it the way that other people talk about all it's so complex we don't know that you just dumbed it down to you know it's actually so simple visits and darted yeah with just one cell that you follow Mr. I'm following in what I think is awesome is its way it does seem like it is so simple however it's not just the dumbed down version of what you just need some good bacteria is way way way different in that you have to understand I for long time kind of felt like that we are vehicles for this bacteria yeah and everywhere that you go you're basically being driven guy what is indeed the chemical messengers that you referenced we interpret that but is it really completely hours to interpreted not not necessarily
you know there's evidence of vector making us do things right and and you would think that there is some altruistic reason for them to do it for example there are certain types of bacteria within your my combined that make you more social that make you go out Thanksgiving lead the motivation to go out and meet people and the reason for then you think all why did the back you want me to be more social and that's one of the ways of the transfer from house to house is that if you're not socially antisocial you sit back and back in the Navy set back in your cave all the time by yourself you're really not going up and spreading this Michael this micro bio there are there bacteria out there that connect you change your outlook on life there was a study looking at women who took probiotics versus women that didn't and they took women that the probiotics in the group that didn't and they showed him a bunch of pictures and they were measuring brainwave activity and was showing them like really stressful take pictures things that would bother them normally and they found that the women that took probiotics on a regular basis actually had a less intense emotional response to those pictures so their outlook on life seemed a little bit better than the ones that did you know and so these microbes are dictating a lot of how we even respond to the world around us is fascinating because yes urologist we always I was trying to people to feed their microbiological would eat the diet that your bacteria really should have diverse bacteria and now we have the highest incidence of anxiety of depression mean all were doing is just throwing more and more drugs at it trying to get that to be corrected when the reality is we could balance the bacteria and you know what I really like about this as an excuse for me to go to Vegas with my buddies. Tell me to get out for health that is one of the best places to swap microbial going to Vegas as a sign expression when you all the activity up I have a question though so study which I find please fascinating would didn't matter what the delivery system is in the reason I asked that is because we we often times as you can through the practice we talk about not all probiotics and want to create in general and even more than that the delivery system which is how we not so can't talk about that why does it matter how a probiotic is delivered yeah and let's take yeah so that's critical because in large part you know what we so we started setting provided to the way we even got into the space is valid I just want to know little more the history how do you end up even looking at the bacterial thing so I when I got into the natural space, microbiologist by training and I was ensnared and I had a big interest in all Maxwell space and I would go to places like GNC and I byproduct some about the studies no most products STUDIES in the marketplace and I started questioning companies and when you have more studies and really what I ended up finding out is that it's too expensive to do clinical trials right of vitamin company can afford a half-million dollar trying to figure out about it doesn't work in Pharma companies that all day long may they have one in a thousand compounds that is successfully enter market but they'll spend millions of dollars on those 999 that don't do anything or do something really bad but nutritional, you just can't afford so I sent this can be a way we can change the paradigm of how you do clinical trials to to make it more affordable and make it more functional for nutritional companies number one second all the disease outcomes right so if I have a compound natural compound that can reduce blood pressure if I did $100,000 study on blood pressure the problem with that is I can't talk about it because UNFPA doesn't allow you to go out there and say you know this this extract reduces blood pressure will talk about that weekly also because you know because were in the same space I I like I started as a casserole just doing pharmaceutical research and when you start talking about these products before you even get to the point where you can say what it is go to an IRB and apply for an NDI and all these other acronyms make it almost prohibitive for somebody that's trying to be altruistic and go look at us will know if this works out yeah and the outcomes and I would like what what are we really figuring out and studying here and so what I did is taking blood pressure earnings as an example rather than looking at that the final outcome of reducing the pressure a in the vein when using a conflict anyone else would I look at structural or functional changes in the in the pathway to reducing blood pressure so looking at changes to angiotensin enzyme and so in also looking at structure function change that lead to that outcome rather than looking for the outcome itself and in the FDA allows you to talk about structure function changes in the body right so that's how I figured end and with those kind of biomarker changes you don't need as many subjects all of Lila's studies are smart and we were able to do so I was doing all of these studies with eight 1015 patients giving companies an idea what the product might do in the system with the ultimate outcome might be looking at small changes in the pathways to those products and so are you drawn blood levels of angiotensin young exactly yeah and your attention adjutants and converting enzyme were looking at things like rheological measures on the blood the viscosity of the blood using this machine color rail log then made measures real-time viscosity the blood and what work it takes to pump that blood through through the vascular system where you saw is so then I opened the CRO clinical research organization my mom is a medical doctor I'm she's listening mother for correct pronunciation is mom hi how are you so she's a medical doctor made her my principal investigator and we opened in the Southside of Chicago clinical research organization I started working with supplement companies and saying hey I can design a clever study for you to figure out what your product is doing its cost too much and you can you know if you do a pilot study for 20 grand and you get some idea that your product has a benefit then it's easier to invest 50 or 70 into a bigger study because then you know you can get the marketing benefit of doing that makes the company's just not spent 100 grand right off the bat and figure out the product doesn't do anything so I created clever pilot studies and things to give people an idea and from doing that I started getting companies inviting me to come on their board scientific boards or helping them with product development in the supplement world and that's how I got into the supplement world so it's purely from the backside the research and having this research organization so in a field where there is really little to no research you started with the research was her way into the field work at work it and really I came to immediately find out who the best companies were because 98% of them I like what I'm really interested in doing clinical trial is 20 granted you can figure out whether your products actually making any change in the body we don't really want to know that a lot of it is they don't want to know it is not doing anything well I think a lot of it is and we have we have discussed this before the show that you know they did that analysis with a looked at products that they pulled them off the shelf in DNA analysis show that almost 80% of them did not have what was in the castle on the label yeah so and that and we know that since we've been in process and you know this as well that unless you see where it's being sourced yeah housing extracted how it's moved over there are so many players in the chain when it's a mass commodity that you may end up not having it all what you think you have a you have to tested every step of the way you know one when you bring the raw material in before you blended in with other stuff after you encapsulated every step you have to do the testing again to verify that it's still what you wanted to be but you know there was a large multinational company that that found it and I was working with them in product development and they basically came and said you know they were pretty big provided company to begin with and over they were getting on competition in the retail space of new probiotics coming in a lot of those probiotics are what I call the kitchen sink poetics we just cannot throw everything in it now we just gonna put 19 strains in this in your and I'm sick in these meetings in the wind 19 transit winds typically springs they go our competitor has 17 you probably saw the evolution like I did what started out as like we got 1 million forming units and then the next person stand in the next $20 like we have one really is one job so somebody actually play counting that just marketing all marketing and I would sit down in these because I mention I became part of advisory boards of companies sit down in these meetings whether developing products and they would go we want 15 strains and 50 billion and I and my first reaction is number one why 15 strains why 50 billion like you have some sort of study I'm not aware of that shows 50 billion works in 30 million dozen they go 10 this is the closest competitor they have 35 million someone to be just that much about right and here's where it really becomes bad it's like they have a company that their benchmarking next to and they want to be higher account and that company but they want to be seen principally so your putting more in and you want to be at the same price the more that you pit put in ends up being lower quality because you can't spend as much on it right so now you've got 2025% more ingredients in the higher amounts and yet you have to be the same price point to get to go with a lower value ingredient products so now we've got things like Lactobacillus acidophilus which is number one probiotic strain in any product where you find it everywhere in in providing products you can buy tanker load of it for like three great really Tinker load of it it's insane yeah and so when you're in the probiotic world are not in that world yet when you do start buying the raw materials for probiotics how is that actually does it come is like like a culture bath is it an act are what is so him so that he asked me a question because what we saw that study from UC Davis such that test of the products on the market by DNA right and they show that the vast majority of products that they tested did not have the right strains that will explain the label then you ask yourself how in the world is that happened right like it's like launching a product that says vitamin C and is nothing but vitamin A yes I like how you make that mistake so it all comes back to how you buy probiotics sorry monochromatic company on the particular product I go okay I want these 10 strains in I'll call my ingredient distributor and I'll say I want acidophilus ram notices in a case I whenever the strains are ship me a drum of each it'll come to you as a drum you open the drum is just a powder and there's no way you know that this is actually like this was at Annapolis there is something policy of a significant analysis from the manufacturer that says you have not purchased like Mrs. acidophilus but right that it's a spot where you can't tell in order to really verify that you send that powder to some University or lab to do full DNA analysis in order to verify that actually is but that's not part of the regular GMP regulations so nobody's doing rights to manufacture centered on the powder and they say this is Lactobacillus acidophilus and you go okay yes it is and you put in your capsule and you put the product on the shelf so you know that it's even viable also I've already wanted this because people say is that actually yeah now some companies will do a plate count so they'll take unknown amount of it like like a gram mix it in water and played it to see what actually grows the problem is something is going to grow because there's bacteria in they just don't know what bacteria right so you look at the colonies and you can't tell a record is in the colonies you go all great somethings going it must be fine and then you put in the capsule you put it on the shelf you've no idea what's in the product while no idea so that's how the typical probiotic so that you have something very unique yet relative to Eric's question that he has to totally so so when that multinational company hired us to do research for them we approach the probiotic industry purely from an objective standpoint to do research for them to figure out what is to be the next generation probiotics so we started sending all the stuff in the market and we started to figure out that events with 30 provides the market are dying in the stomach whether if they have bacteria in it the guy in the stomach are basically putting it out eight hours and 12 hours later they're not most of my dying on the shelf even if they even get to your stomachs and then I even had the end of the approach of going to health food stores and just asking people go what are your best probiotics and the clerks always stuff in the refrigerator Ray and I'll go and as a microbiologist and I'm always confusing why the sit in the refrigerator so massive and I go widely in the refrigerator and they say well these are the highest quality their life culture and to keep them as live cult he got a refrigerator right and they say okay and when you buy them take him home and put in refrigerator and I okay so they sat on the shelf they would die and they go yes that's right make sure you keep in refrigerator like 70° in the shop it's 98.6° in the body how is he going to survive their hair we can sit on the shelf at 70° and they never had an answer you know said to me I was like all the stuff that's in the refrigerator makes actually no sense at all and so we wanted to take a completely different approach and we started going where did our ancestors get their probiotics are right we have this really intimate relationship between us and bacteria they conduct many functions for us that doesn't occur overnight so they must be this long term relationship with bacteria and we look at our ancestors they were smart enough to eat dirt I didn't clean their environment in a sterilized environment and so we started focusing on environmental bacteria now the thing is most environmental factor can act as probiotics and most of them will die in the stomach as well so we start honing in on what bacteria we would come across in the environment actually had some special function that could act as a probiotic the first one that we came across of these Bacillus endospores so these are unique bacteria that belong in the got but they leave the got to defecation and when they go out in the environment when they go out in the environment they go into the store for an spore form they put light armor like coating around themselves and then you sound like holding her saliva to the gastric system she have any tasks so going Mr. so as this is is it can you describe us or the first board you guys wanted to show his environment. Special care the result of this for Colleen so that he actually actually survive Texas and we we look at research we went to the biggest best researcher in the store while it's Dr. Simon crying while all away Selah placement site explores anyone's internationals for super scorner and then there's some there's some really interesting stuff that he's doing using scores as a vaccine delivery license Lexus we want your scores that we know function and so license five discourse we look at the function of each one each one different role in the and so we put the first multisport base probiotic the idea that these scores are not alone actually slightly gastric system angle start making a change to the rest of my life so as a microbiologist so the bacteria is in store for me to tolerate whole hi just waits wasn't wait for service waiting for a molecular mucosal cells small the moment you guess right into the water cycle and say good guy and we have in the sectors of the asses or tell them that there is because location so that binding the temperature and then some nutrients will get a divorce but he can remain in the store steakhouse of the body for literally millions of years the oldest war file was filed was found in fossilized amber be in the got to be the whole ancient Beatles fossilized drill into the substrate where they pulled out some spores and he could still plate it was still alive 250 million said sound like Jurassic Park subtotal yeah so this is the way that I'm kind of tell my patients a reason why islands for various is that because that sport can actually survive the Senate environment and it starts that handshake in swingout is really bad to really proliferate really really slow well down there is fully wakes I was like that's almost like time travel pot start to wake up so is making its way through the small how is it makes interesting stops in the small rear yes we always encourage people with food the reason we do that is in the presence of food produced so the spores are the largest commercial producers of protease amylase I mostly find information big commercial enzymes are produced so all and also places the scores are not based yeah so so so most of them are made by patient support for nation I do know him and so they don't know how those hang out for little while and smallmouth would result that is moved to the factors are they interact with peers is mainly T and B cell liberation so they are some of the strongest proliferators of TV sets I read I hate to do this we are up against the break were going to be joined second half hour we don't forget your listening right now to get your project you are looking at care on Christian talking about high needs for based probiotics are the best way if you consume finalize hang on a project that okay break here will come back and do the 2830 starting your total return fire sunscreen additional restaurant is really awesome thank you yeah proceeds check again now that parts going well now nevermind salt just just just trusted most yeah okay so you can start again Ron sitting here bar 796.432 I okay we are back with the last half-hour of gadget project we are joined by Karen Christian who is going to completely change your mind on how to consume probiotics what they can do for you take away because we just were unfortunately crazy break just so your thought about the incredible journey is for the short journey for answer is now so is one of the biggest areas they actually interact with the use of see some of these all express very significantly you see that through are no see that proliferation of cells throughout the body and you get a lot of inflammatory site expression right at that juncture so because the spores are what we call there are so strong and interacting factors
I said before say he's developing vaccines using the scores as this is fascinating so this for vaccine we you stick on the floor and you swallow it this report presents the vision cells you get a more robust patient responses that injecting your armor fire anywhere else you an insulator for example women when they used it as a vehicle for vaccination and they gave him a forward within two hours of swallowing it on anybody's international canal of the female subjects that's how fast it proliferated through the immune system Bonnie Steckel again said this even in places like national canal or the upper respiratory that's how important it is
all people to let his boogers is all these evolutionary behaviors like they have family parties the parties Carolyn each of them when they were between ages three and five are also face a little bit you see them saying so natural for them to pick your nose plotless really looking for and why is the instinct but in your mouth you lose that same time rice sobbing think about while I realize that what is it's a vaccine oral vaccine you pick up viruses mold all that stuff in your upper respiratory tract is now covered with IGA mucus and all that and then when you swallow it goes into your system and the a sample by the and that gives you the community and they had a patient that same with all mucus Hillary elevators designed for you guys part of pullout stuff lungs and swallow it the whole swallowing concept is important all the stuff a sample of the immune system some spores in that way as well so we had success with people in Gary sensitivity or allergic reaction to certain food, and when we eliminate food from the person's diet hello there little bit bring down the inflammation then we have Knoxville slowly introduce the food and really minuscule amounts with the spores this is forcing present the food repair scratches and upregulated your response so you felt little tolerance of so we can react the way our body response things so this is below is the first time I've ever thought about this I want to rewrite a couple things are so a sport based probiotic yeah I'm getting it wrong like you were just just reading your own microbiota we know I we work with PhD at Texas Tech were you trying to develop a probiotic 4C convection mouse model euros it's incredible completely gets rid of that hail yes yes Dr. Hale and he was only just how amazing it was the only problem is work of the work is when the they stuck a catheter and injected which means it wasn't survived: here is used for base probiotics completely different mechanism or else and it isn't like there's populating presenting there truly vehicles down there and presenting to the system so in the apartment small lesson then goes into the: does a lot of important things that are just tires patches which is the cells are presented were you will be 12 this is absolutely one never thought and one for now we've been so silent about slowly tinkering in the lab at all of this stuff and then last year is bringing all this out and talk as well so it is also in the research world is a lot about developing these all of these vaccine bagels with the spores as it does so much with respect to the immune system 1000 TH one Th2 balance so people tend to be very inflammatory and respond to everything and if I'm manner we can actually bring back Th2 one response in those people we see a balance of Luke 10 which is based on your response versus bringing out six in all of these balances of BCC Reese's on my world processes ulcerative colitis as well as talk about that one swallow to always it is happening in your pajamas and stop the drug companies must be this list usually cost 10,000 a month is mother nature still doesn't this is you know millions of years in the making and it's just sitting out here in the environment for us I will say that we were just smart enough so to understand that we should look to nature for what nature has created and then just be smart enough to use it that's all you can be right we can never outsmart nature in the in the infant formula which is always crazy because you know for literally hundreds years a multibillion dollar companies have been working on trying to match his mother's milk we know you feed your baby infant formula versus breast-feeding mothers no there have a lot of metabolic and other immune issues down the road they tend to have high degrees diabetes heart and vascular disease allergies and so on despite the billions of dollars are going to figure out how to create formula we know that you cannot match the millions of years of evolution is nature knows what it's doing to follow be smart enough to figure out what nature is offered is in use next time our focus will ask that is so fascinated the facility my world we'll see autoimmune disease Crohn's and colitis in third world countries the myopic view of parasite there we don't have it here so they have tried multiple times to feed people words in the hopes of tricking the immune system reality is a lot worse for based on then they are parasites because we never really able to actually say okay's parents is probably the spore base is an endless force controlled by we were really dishonest you know we have five states and the biggest question we what just five sanction we need more right and we say no defense what the strings are doing in the system we've always had this idea that the five things and if you get in and significantly change the presence of a lot of when we think of them as the orchestrator's of the microbiota outsource this function to these bacteria is is very little control that we had within our own system to manage the ecology and writing pharmacology goes off it was a single run is very little our own body can do to try to that's all. Thanks so we know that the scores have been in the prescription market since 1952 by the company's axonal treatment is Germany France prescription drugs actually yes 14 dysentery and were pretty because are so good going in using something called quorum sensing where back here read the microbial environment they look at other bacterial Michael signatures vilifying pathogenic bacteria to sit next to they produce upwards of 24 different and aches in that little space to kill off). Right you have the capability of doing that if we have time we'll talk about funny Tamil dog stories of how this is even discovered times we have all the general rule to show to us about it is these micros have the capability of finding and bringing down the levels of pathogenic bacteria if you do the opposite of increasing the good bacteria saluted to say next three months will resolve these spores into the micro bio increases in diversity like 5 pounds 45% find strains bring back the growth of over 300 other stray right and any increases the diversity by two measures one is richness which is how many different bacteria present within the sample and show uniformity actually brings back uniformity my client nothing else is been shown that you will think you can find strength and somehow he strains that work in your gut previously are not there where they come from his wife right and so we don't do that soon and we found out that in certain people these microbes are there such low levels are completely undetectable by her research methods even my things like UPC are we couldn't find certain strains in people and then begin the the next thing you know there hundreds of billions that same area not present in the so they were there just there such tiny amounts nonfunctional in this course will find that the bacteria that are beneficial suffering increase and so forced matrix of the: they actually become part of the crowd in store for you to say which is a growing state so using their lifecycles of what they do is the first one is for form which is how it is one of the city, school form much of the small intestine they are actually in the state which is the active multiplying stated doing all of these functions when the ileum where where the Paris taxes are you go back to the store for because as it turns out they are more immunogenic in the spore form is is fascinating we found that in one of our sites is that they are part of the test and they go where I am the back was for focus are now interacting with the immune cells in the store for and when they could go passively and when they enter the proximal part of large file they go back and say, or forget now when their very end of the larger large file with their terminal and life on the lookout go back to the store as you know that entering the outside world is that it is really environment there things that you remediation so why doesn't every single yeah this is this is: Lucian over millions of years of these bacteria that we've been swallowing inadvertently I think about it is you know the world became cover my bills of the first living things on earth we know that for fact will actually, it's a legal panspermia sound is as interesting as this latest will you reason is the building blocks of life in nucleic acid and protein that started the cellular life must have come from outer space must come from meteorite crashed into the earth because you can find usually acids and amino acids on samples ameliorate your thinking is that word this life for cellular life's from any team during the time of the earth is bombarded with all of these metering say and so they decided to see if there any microbes that exist on earth today negative survived interstellar travel on immediate right from say somewhere like Mars and did a study in the sports great ones and work with survive six years in the summer And actually reenter on your right and be some of the foundations of cellular life this is a published showing so these forcible working we could've been the origins of honor is not languishing in Oso is so fascinating that they've been here way longer than we have we saw that in the notice of the spores in the honey you know that our 250 million years old they found scores in a cave in Southern California salt crystals that they could melt out of salt crystals install program and there were over 50 million years old and are still alive they'd been here since the beginning and you are idea is that we've been swallowing them inadvertently as humans being in this desert because everywhere ubiquitous and then some of them develop this evolution is about being in the survival of the gastric system and then actually start orchestrating the ecology in us which for a long time looked a lot like the ecology was is there is resident between ecology and soil ecology and that's part of why our world is toxic as our soil is that as our food is that I got in so easily orchestrated in the environment is in his years and years of co-evolution they figure out what part of the doctors formulating what started these formulating which part to interact what part of our immune system and then of course they they orchestrate the rest of the population since I never heard about this or never thought about it like this but you're exactly right creators set will survive always there to help you out all word sprays should you told where microbial construct will so you know we have a significant chronic disease right now is not unthinkable when you go 34 years ago 2530 autoimmune disease that we have over so we've created diseases for ourselves to deal over the last 2530 years and so much that can really be rationally tracked back the idea that we continue to use one-way progresses whether it's on our crops in our water in our homes and our food and so your studies using that when somebody is on base for this now determined that they currently can survive up her small hourly drawings as state actors for the vegetative state about_management public soil there have you seen an increase in the proliferation as it comes or they Kate Waller in this environment can reproduce more of these yet it is not we consistent or overloaded with spores to figure out candidate because the people in NASA's old creations or monocultures similarly we don't think what is this is almost natural levels of exposure you're supposed to get from the soil and so we wouldn't have this diverse microbiology that actually happened and so we did testing what we were trying to overload like divine source and we found that they reach a certain threshold level of themselves within the got they don't allow themselves ask the children try to keep it incisor smart smart little critters totally are smarter than we are because they know more about our gut than we do right we can't look at that and go that is off because we don't know what a healthy microbe I'm supposed to look like but they can go and then go yet this is not right and tinker around with things and fix things you know and because of that we the first published study we did was only to get rightly we practice this idea that leaky gut is really a result of this biosensor dysfunction in the bacterial population and so with our thinking that that was forcing go and then fix the dysfunction it should be able to resolve the key got and sure enough we have I think the only published study on a probiotic that shows it can resolve leaky gut in as little as 30 days while totally sealed up tight junctions no more toxins leaking through into the circulation and all of the inflammatory cytokines we looked at all came down significantly in that 30 days, highlight that because there's well over 3300 studies specifically to talk about permeability in the guide and anything that really drew canine to what you are doing mega spore is that research right there is nobody else with a probiotic regardless of delivery system does anything like what megastore does and nobody's been able to demonstrate that you absolutely and we were super excited about it because when we when we prove that then Woodley got and we know that leaking a drive so many other chronic… We said okay if we can resolve leaking with the probiotics then we should be able to fix other things that that are result of leads got so since then we've done a triglyceride study elevated triglyceride we need the studies going through peer review right now clearly published in the next couple months but we saw about a 40 to 45% reduction in elevated triglycerides in a 90 day. Compare that to like a prescription brings on triglycerides maybe 15% act fast enough and of course all the side effects even the prescription fish oil which is a good thing to take but the prescription for shopping center and this is my 25% at best this is over 40% we so we just completed a study on acting because we know of your leaky gut you have inflamed skin we saw a 40% reduction in acting lesion counts in 30 days and compare that to the prescription antibiotic that use Accutane it takes them 90 days to achieve that all of the side effects you get from taking land so yes we have seen all kinds of stuff also when we treat people without trying to it's shockingly good will come up and say all my rosacea cleared up the other nondrug issues that make sense because it's just inflammatory cytokines floating around that is the biggest source of chronic low-grade inflammation and we know chronic low-grade inflammation is the biggest driver of chronic disease the American diabetic Association is doing a whole bunch of studies on and of toxemia which is a kind of leaking that we study and they have at least 15 published studies showing that endo- toxemia is the primary cause of of the onset of diabetes in fact is a study that just published earlier this circle the courtier prep study and it was 462 patients and these are all patients that have high risk factors for developing type II diabetes so there will be a staff history of heart disease all that stuff and they follow these patients over 60 months and they measured all different types of cytokines and inflammatory markers in all that to try to figure out which one of those things with the best predictors of the development of type II diabetes what they showed was leaky got in the leaking of an endotoxin, LPS was the only marker that could predict diabetes triglycerides inflammatory markers that you know you look in six all of that stuff CRP none of that stuff correlated 100% the only thing was he leaking us in the gut and the migration of oxen and so they even recommended that physicians use that endotoxin as is a predictor of diabetes risk so everything often matter as much as that and so we talked about a study that was done at TCU in a couple shows ago were they actually look to people and they induced basically information by injecting LPS yeah and then monitoring them and what they found is the people in the study the nearest to their surprise when you talk about the bacteria in social and all this they showed lack of impulse control emotional mobility and they were very surprised about that and then they actually said that there's a tendency towards addiction because the inflammatory process articles neural inflammation yeah yeah and effect is evident such as LPS from the got leaks through the brain and etching interfere with dopamine binding in dopamine receptors that's fascinating I not seen yeah and so you even though your body is releasing dopamine binding domains are then you're looking for an opening fix and you get into addictive behavior because it most addictive behaviors are driven by dopamine need for dopamine fitness exactly so your interfamily dopamine binding from the sleepiness and you got something I want to bring up one of the happiest animals I've ever met the promise really high dopamine is a camel you know yeah they need to get to the store so it is fascinating so in during World War II the German army had part of their campaign was in North Africa this is super well-documented was documented by a pharmaceutical company started in Germany and what they saw was that most of the German soldiers are dying of dysentery and what the notice was the locals when they would get infections addition. What they would do to stop it was they would find dried camel dung and they would consume the Canada and eating the camel down would stop the dysentery so they took a bunch of the camel back to Germany and you try to figure out what was in the camel and that actually stop the infection and they found this Alyssa Tillis for his which is the same score that we work with and so they launch that as a prescription drug in 1952 to treat dysentery from the camel dung use in North Africa and on that was the first time that the spores we use in the medical world but they been using it in in North Africa and other parts of Savannah for literally thousands of years to treat infections you know in the end so it is also fascinating the NIH recently published a study last year you know we know that where were reaching this post antibiotic worldwide Mercer is a big issue for methicillin-resistant staph they did a big thing was a 500 patient study in Thailand and Southeast Asia they sampled a whole bunch of people and they were looking for the prevalence rate of Mercer colonization of people in different body sites on the scan in the oral cavity and so on what they found was that there was a really high prevalence rate of call colonization by methicillin-resistant staph which is a very scary back care if it starts to in fact it becomes a major problem it was like summer on 35 or 40% of people had colonization by Mercer but here's the thing that was interesting when they look at the people that did not have any Mercer colonization they will try to look at their entire micro bio the entire ecologic and ecological I set up of the body the only difference I could find between people that had lesser composition and did not have it was at the people that did not have it had high levels of Bacillus spores in their system so they can actually see Dr. Seuss board they could see this was a good culture the spores so they could see that the spores were protecting these people against Mercer colonization that's how much they afforded the protection and in and they've been here for millions of years we just have to be smart enough to put it back in our system this is really cool because relaunching the subscription box or the D had subscription box and were teaming up for we got we have one minute left because this is really one of the best deep dive scientific discussions we've had so far on catching so real quick can Ron talk about the partnership between John Teal mega spore and why I don't see why we are excited to be able to show how how I actually heard about you is because I had all these functional medicine doctors you need to meet this brilliant guy who I think has something that can actually augment your product and that's when you ever got in touch and I'm so glad we did very clearly you know your should I not camels it turns out it's a great part because what you guys of development on track tail and the what does in the body is so complementary what the spores do in fact I that that both products would enhance each other's effect you know and when one will be seen that with other things like prebiotic so probably feel as we see and enhance impact so I think the two products in combination will be a true symbiotic which is where 11 product would dramatically Nancy affected the other so I'm totally excited for this partnership because I think it working if both of us are in the family fixing that's now when we combine it really fixing some vets across the board so this is fascinating this is our first roadshow Ron you will always be the first person in every unit along a road show yes gut check project names were Dan San Antonio and I found what is it called AIC member annual international, oh yeah yeah so were down here talking to a lot of functional medical functional medicine practitioners MDs dealers nurse practitioners etc. it's an incredible conference can't thank you enough for taking time to carve out any parting words I just love the nerd out one small that is awesome you think you missed anything you need to go back to how Campbell Joe was the first for transplant sale
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How can Near Death Experiences affect those that go through it? How can superstitions be shown to actually have benefit? What actions can you take to improve your health today? All of that in this month's GCP science reset with Ken & Eric.
Hi I'm Jay Farner CO Quicken loans 30% of Americans who are planning home improvements of $5000 or more will pay for those renovations with a high interest credit card that may not be a great idea a better idea may be to take cash out of your home with the Quicken loans 30 year fixed-rate mortgage the rate today in our 30 year fixed rate mortgage is 3.99% APR 4.08% call us today at 800 Quicken or go to rocket mortgage.com 125% B receive it is not real because it is not that he thinks all I got Jake project episode number 15 gets a project where you check your ego at the door and nothing is off the table we are here with Dr. Ken Brown what's up what's up Eric where you have a really really fun show for I guess this week when second who did you look for I guess it's week old man we got a start become organized knobs to this week we got so many cool topics that were just gonna roll with it because there's a lot of stuff going on in science stuff in the news Edward is learning so much every time we start going to these different meetings which you just came back from a meeting in we've done different meetings recently so which to keep bringing all that knowledge into this room and shared it with everybody and definitely we would so even just this last week number one thank you to everybody who began to ride into a so it seems like were very iTunes heavy in terms of subscriptions and people that are lacking in sharing the show so it was noticed thank you very much in case you happen to have forgotten all you have to do is like and subscribe to the gut check project on either iTunes or on YouTube and then you will be entered into the contest where you can win a free month supply of the signature protection package signature protection package which is all Tron tail and either KB MD sentiment or KB MD natural after you subscribe you simply have to go to get your project.com go to contact choose an email that says I subscribe to GCP we had several hundred last week and thank you for all the comments down there to there's lots people who just want to know more about trying to heal and know more about CBD they say that either or both of them are already working and that's that's great and would several guest suggestions as well think I've ever had the advice to be contacted by several patients who said that they were taking CBD and that after adding upfront feel that they notice that they feel like they are little bit better improvement is a placebo or is there something else going on and actually got some science behind it the reason why we called the signature package once you explain the science well long long ago is getting so I have CBD of course works as a supplementary micronutrient for your Indo cannabinoid system which is something that really we need to get onto the website it's a little bit about the meeting that we just went to Swint's last week talking about how to better convey this information but essentially the way the website looks awesome developed by a cRNA for cRNA doing a website it's pretty dang good yes if for a cRNA doing a website that's right that's basically the way we get away with saying it's a terrible website but were trying to make it better I promise so that was a little bit of the of the meeting that I went to for the last day and 1/2 and dad it's some great people out there want to say hey to donate and to Sarah and to to Brad great group of people out there in Phoenix but in Jake's charging only the Sarah Silverman yeah Bradley Cooper they were all there there into their there into web stuff and Nate McGillicuddy that there there all they are three people yeah I work so hard as you will never know they work there anyway but so the CBD will actually augment or work as an micronutrient fear Indo cannabinoids system and that's it that seriously is like any other system that we have in our bodies it's over 600 million years old evolutionarily speaking through all types of animals if you're a bird of vertebral meaning that you have a backbone you're guaranteed to have any CS so essentially what happens is taking CBD allows our ECS are you know can have annoyed system to better regulate and function as the governor between our immune system in our nervous system you've all heard of those systems so essentially whenever you have chronic inflammation it's either one of those two that's kind of working out about CBD doesn't yeah so I think one of the biggest issues that people are having with the CBD stores are popping up everywhere that I was I have news this and that's going on but nobody really understands why what so I get my patients a command and will say things like oh I've tried to be do nothing happened but I'll just say well here's part of the problem there's a lot of companies out there that even even the people that are making some CBD don't really understand the science behind it and once they try to BMD CVD the electrical back and say oh my gosh I took X, Y, and Z did notice anything now I'm able to my back pain is gone my neuropathy is gone and then I can explain why what's actually happening we all have an Endo cannabinoid system I keep coining the term and end of Caleb and all just because I really feel like the more and more I read about it the more it is really complex and there's some really cool science out there but the signature packages there because all trying to kind of stops in enzyme that breaks down your own endogenous and a cannabinoids meaning your body makes CBD you called Ananda my and that's part of the issues that we start going on these rabbit holes of explaining stuff but it's really easy you just have to realize that when you take CBD presses the reset gets everything back in balance and that's a come I think it's more than adapted you meaning that when you take it in your body will figure out what to do with it that's why you can't overdose on it that's why so many people can have incredible results that's why some people takes longer because maybe you need more of this what would you call micronutrient or an adapted you because I can go by a lot of different terms but people of your left and be my my goals to really try to explain a lot of the science and once I can put together good signature talk that is sort of as we always say bridges the gap between this complex science and natural solutions then were, to get out there and were to put that on the website on this evolving website yeah what you want and nothing's off the table of course so through that research and and I was there firsthand as you began to have patients who used CBD and then use a couple different brands and manufacturers not seen that the different changes in terms of once I finally have a high quality CBD so up I do want to say that what we offer the KPD health is not the only awesome CBD that's out there but what I can tell you is it does check all the boxes so if you're hunting for CVD to make a difference begin with a legitimate COA certificate of authenticity if they can't do that then move onto the next one that's if you can't check that box there is no reason to continue the discussion did you see I saw a news article where somebody got fired from their job because they were drug tested and they tested positive they were fired the personally got fired knew that they were doing anything all are doing CBD that it starts going around that CVD can cause false positives sure that person send it to a third-party analysis and as it turned out and even that particular one so that the amount of THC was none came back actually very high level so unfortunately somebody lost her job over this and now they're suing the CBD manufacturer for all of that so will CLA's can unfortunately date they now are the new fraud document right that's what somebody else is doing there just trying to play off of the something else and oversupplied coattails of somebody else and make it look legitimate that's what the people who commit fraud do they just they do that so ultimately I can say that if you want to trusted product that I know that Dr. Brown certainly endorses KB MD CVD is at least as safe choice in terms of quality price and and what you're after in terms of CVD so speaking of me that's that's that we took the high road with upfront heal from day one trip when we started looking at ingredients when we started looking about where were to manufacture we took at KBS research with our team over there we took off trying to only send it through different certifications one that I'm really proud of is this NSF which is certified for sport reason why I think that is so important is because working to start seeing that the combination of all trunk tools polyphenols helping with both sports performance and helping with sports recovery plus the stress of doing athletic performances automatically can going to deplete your own end of cannabinoids and so that signature package right there I think is going to be really critical in any contact sport making sure that the polyphenols that go through of that what make about her until we we develop trying to yield for digestive health were learning more and more the complexities probably feels like it's a great science in an article today that kinda ties a lot of this together but that's what I think is going end up being such a cool thing the signature package which almost all my patients are on that that combo right there my mom all my staff everybody and with this I can just see this being the future of Howard to start treating trauma Hogan start making sure that anybody a contact sport you prevent the inflammatory response before it actually starts causing some damage and some long-term consequences then this is its awesome information and we seen it firsthand where people have written to us again tons of email even just that as people have signed up and subscribed and shared gut check project it on YouTube or iTunes and just written this little notes I think also much mail trying to heal and CVD it worked great for me even common certainly appreciate them but if you just want to enter to get your own free month supplier chance that we have at least five winners coming up in July so simply go to get check project.com let us know that you signed up under the contact tab and will take care of the rest of your summary of soda purchase to be in the CBD and you just what I'm trying to outrun ~I almost make the fatal mistake that the nobody Arnaz is a writer development and you just want to add the signature pack to increase your own addendum I'd use trying to yield to augment your CBD death even if you don't have got issues even if you're not real interest in the polyphenols in the antiaging and anti-inflammatory effect but you want to make your CBD better go to love my tummy.com/spooky use code spinning saves money so eight Dr. Brown what is on the topic in terms of what happened with you on Father's Day how is Father's Day with his fathers it was also it wasn't found there was no tennis of course it rained like crazy but there is no tennis I did have a meeting there was it was awesome so Saturday great weather did just one of those old school hang out in the pool float I throw the ball we're just having fun and just if I felt like it was no like when the kids were four and five we would do that all day everyday so that was awesome and then on Sunday did something a little different we drilled Lloyd out shoes not too excited to do it it rained all night okay and muddy and everything and she had to laugh because I was wearing some pretty old grubby clothes she's like you to go out like that like area because Lucas and I have discovered kind of a fun little thing we found a cool park with Frisbee golf went out as a family played frisbee golf you have the putter and then that of the different discs for the different shots or is it just one desk per person much like my regular golf game much-needed driver drive no matter what we just use drivers there were some other people in the course in July, we that it's like to you're watching people to really know what they're doing now but would have thought it was really cool so it was a hot muggy and muddy and it was a resume just punch those little things I mean I think that we don't get out enough just do silly stuff get yourself back in nature is really cool park it's over East Plano and just really one of those silly unplanned witches do this not whereby they nobody's looking at phones or just out there slinging a desk have a little fun again no I love unloved days like that and said that's good stuff how was your father's death as it was good it at the one of those things where the actual Father's Day on Sunday namely the boys not to get together on Monday because Kate's out of town shoot hoop that was also in a tournament and it's quite the normative use have busy kids that are teenagers and dad but we did get together Monday I guess nice new kicks which the boys are great at picking out and issues for dad I'm terrible at it and then they surprised me by buying me my first opportunity to go and do a tandem skydive jump so I asked the boys and Marie they wanted to do with me Marie said sure I mean I'm I'm nervous but I want to do it gauges like yeah love can't wait and Max response was nope and I think all three also different different planes of the don't have a good feeling about sales exactly how I would be you guys do that let me know me and macro go catch a movie that only think he wants to come watch e-zines want to hear of it that it's all okay when it's over but looking forward to it I do have to own something when you said you get some new pixels and this is like what happened that I'm I have been on the slight run of losing things, so the family got a really cool wallet had bag two cards got the wallet out that's awesome then we went and did the whole Frisbee golf and got all muddy and got busy and everything have the card sitting there I can't find this wall really yeah so thanks family for dinner three but find it and switch out everything Ireland beat up wallet here so it's a great gift that's a habit of things can turn that things just turn up months later after I ordered three more from Amazon now let's deftly believe also remaining in the show today we got a bunch of topics that people have written about that we decided we wanted to counter framed this particular episode around everything from what what's experience a bit of or what's it like to have a near-death experience and kind of how your brain adjusts is that we with Dr. Brown has a really cool article on point sanded ins and have the get the gun actually reacts to that yet another topic of their also yeah so we had those few things there's I'm in a be doing a live Facebook at 530 today central standard time 630 Eastern with the Siebel SOS crew massive community sure Siobhan Sartre asked me to do this and it's in it are very classic and she laughed about this case you realize how this works you notionally go through usual text your email you you and I'll be working and I'll just go and what yeah whatever sure I didn't realize my commitment to this and how big of an audience this is so I'm doing in our Facebook tonight and then on July 2 second I'm doing a three hour live lecture series followed by Q&A check out SEBO SOS Summit damages Google and SIB oh SOS if you want to catch Dr. Brown this is it said this is a really big group now document a few years ago to get started not not as massive hits you – ugly big group but I'm looking at the other speakers there you got Mark Pimentel Santos Rao Allison C Becker Mike Roos COM and all the big players in this whole Siebel community and I had to laugh because I'm like well I need to learn some stuff that they would talk about them all I think I'm the last lecture in the whole series and so the cycle how to why top any of the stuff that they've done there so try to find some unique things and I did bring an article that will probably talk about tonight was Siobhan because one of the things everybody does talk about are these different gases that these bacteria produce okay so how do you start looking into a little different way if you're unfamiliar with what were talking about see both small intestinal bacterial overgrowth if you get sick take antibiotics or have an infection then you have a chance of the motility in your intestines changing and bacteria can start growing where they shouldn't be stopped the bacteria good or bad the destroyed or they shouldn't. Then whenever you eat that's what creates all the bloating that's why we developed ultra until to help those people that get bloated and we initially were basing on the science behind how methane is produced today's articles really cool about how molecules are trying to interact with hydrogen sulfide which a lot of people have always asked the essence of this community is a very knowledgeable community and so I imagine such as Facebook live somebody's going to say that I'm ready to start talking hundred sulfide and the Pro at the sign additions a.k.a. upfront to ethical thing is it does it just because I think it it what's happened without trying to heal that we've been able to at least begin to address methane production but that's not where is our everything ends so it's it's kinda cool I think to have people see that you've continued the research and we just keep knocking down the hurdles that are that are before us and hopefully start coming up with some better answers is with us and because these other speakers right just completely respects her a lot of them are on the the lecture circuit lot of them or know primarily researchers and knowing what I did pharmaceutical research my office was consistently one of the highest enrolling sites being a private practice office in the Dallas area and when we do this I facts and studies it was Cedars-Sinai Mount Sinai Mayo Clinic Johns Hopkins and you know being number one is not always the best this is how I know that we enrolled most because the FDA said wait a minute what is this little tiny spot Plano to enroll all these people so they came and gave you a good thorough audit for two weeks that was so much fun to have as a redo your car note yes that's I know that so the thing about it is is that we want to bring to the table is real world just completely real world experience of people that are frustrated that they've done a lot of things so it isn't so much saying that this is my protocol this is this because all the others to see Becca protocol Pimentel program protocol there's always people to open protocols sure and know that I meds they really really work for them I can't because everybody has Artie done one of these protocols and shows up just a high-volume practice so when I bring is okay let's be practical about it I don't really want to spend that much more money because you've Artie spent a lot of money we don't need to scope you for the fourth time and if you ever had any issues like this then you can understand what I'm talking about by the time you end up seeing a doctor and so it'll be interesting because I'm one of the few really traditional – are all just talking and this community kind of doing the whole bridge the gap thing try them both sides lease of an active patient pool to yes very activation pool and I'm always learning for my patients and then when I'm in a go on something like this I know they're going to throw some questions will give me curveballs and that just makes me better sure just continue to grow so later in the show we also are going to address we had several questions this last week about while air if you are a member of KB in the health you more than likely received an email it talked about the KPMG health box which I didn't really know that we were going to get to today but it looks like it we have to because we had tons of people sign up and then we've had more people with with statements like this is great but what is X, Y, and Z so in the second hour were going to go straight to what is the KB the health boxes can't touch on it probably won't take up the whole time but deftly kind of the unmask a little bit of the yeah start unmasking that yeah absolutely and of course my baila company digestive health Associates of Texas D hat still going to launch that will work a few kinks up it's a little bit different when you're launching with 90 doctors versus one we already have a community that's listening and we can talk to them in the way that I'm used to talking to them so little learning curve so if you happen to be a digestive health associate patient and you go see your doctor gray ones that box coming up but looked like a little fire under it is asked by many else it's like anything is no one's fault it's want to have the yeah the coined phrase of the of too many chefs now so sometimes you have a lot of input and things can slow down the will we will figure that part out also to add on to the near-death experience talk that'll come lead into little bit about superstitions to talk about about the science superstitions and why humans may actually benefit from them even though there's no scientific explanation on the outset or the perception of them we might have a little bit of it to talk about the woman start looking at these different things ever silicone what in the world where the goal of this will the dealers is that when you can start making scientific sense of things you could start taking control for instance if you if your worrier I was a central podcast this morning about different things you can do to help control the worry how you can sit there and either embrace it control it visualize something different but it all comes down to doing something to get your mind under your control right and that you can call that meditation you can call it whatever but it's a practice we discussed that where I was telling you about the whole NLP were you can do some sort of movement associated with the memory or emotion and you can put yourself in that a motion that's what Tony Robbins does before he goes on stage or visit minutes that's weird she gets on the trampoline or does this routine yeah that a superstition that no neurolinguistic programming all these different things start to make sense when you start looking at it because when we are doing all these things you're moving Marcus Aurelius the yeah the Stoic philosopher I like to read that daily stoic yesterday it was so pertinent because this and you know that now that we've been doing business for little while you you understand my brain works which when you start feeling overwhelmed and you pause be in the moment and stick 1 foot in front of the other and then when Ryan Holliday interpreted that is what he saying is when it looks really daunting look at the one hurdle that you have to get over first yeah and you know that's how my brain works because I'm just like you think about anything until I get this one thing done and then I'll move there's other people that like to try to get half a thing done of many things I'm much more that's what starts bringing in a lot of anxiety and a lot of depression for a lot of people in learning how to be in the moment just take the one step in front of the other I think that that's were CBD can really help people out also work because it actually we showed in one episode how CBD can bond to the serotonin receptors prime directly I think that allows you to really get getting control of your emotions and do that we can talk about a lot of stuff and tie it all together and why all of this is related to gut health yeah I think that today shows it has really cool basically things you can begin to apply to your daily routine to hopefully alleviate anxiety and if you have just even mild depression start finding something some tools that you can incorporate as soon as today speaker tools.org or open up the next half-hour yeah yeah what's that I'm not telling that sound scary gut check project episode number 15 we will be back here in just a moment thinking my chair the expenses blue are yellow pills to charge your sex life are you thinking about everything promising the same results three paying $20 a pair for the other parents you're getting taken to the cleaners same results for less than three dollars and $16 and tell for the same results right now for blue or yellow pills 23 and keeping more than hundred dollars our pharmacy prices right now your 40 4 PM and qualify for free shipping over pain and, right now 218-647-3800 218-647-3800 218-647-3800 218-6473 fast-track student loans can get your student loans out of the vault stop any wage garnishments stop collection calls and stop seizure of your tax refund give yourself a break to stop the stress and get you student loan payments down to as little as $25 a month based on what you can afford to pay 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 now you can fly anywhere in the world and paid discount prices on your airline tickets flight today to Lundy's harassment to read or anywhere else you want to go and pay a lot less guarantee quality international travel department right now low-cost airlines 800-452-1075 800-452-1075 that's 800-452-1075 however that this resort is here in the half-hour magic project episode number 15 Brown said he had something about tools so you are out of town so as everyone knows you do 99% of my anesthesia for all my colonoscopies turned on through the night myself and my patients thank you very much as you do an excellent job at your out-of-town flag I got a chance to work with somebody new for the first time I have a moment oh yeah moment great guy and it was really interesting because you you forget that you spend so much time with one person that don't have a chance to talk but in these if you've never had a colonoscopy anybody or if you've never actually seen what happens basically the gastroenterologist and the cRNA or anesthesiologist are in the same room for eight hours and the lights are off and Everett everybody's pain attached to the: not the butt but the: on the screen and talking a little bit you'd learn stuff about people learn quite a bit about it so Mo and I reset the talk and he didn't really know a lot about me and Connor hinted at something and he said he was you know what you would really like this podcast and super into it I'm like yeah what is it goes Peter Addie had had like yeah yeah listen to several of his stuff and just you know I learned about him through another guy you should meet Dan Ben Greenfield like okay so you are listening to similar projects contents of this led to him asking me all kinds of things as we started to move on is like he was waiting at your end of the stuff so no what you think of this sauna infrared sauna things will onto a sauna topic and we talked about that Charles Rison in his studies with that the finish guy and all the estate so it turned into a bio hacking day while Anna and I started telling him and live pictures of everything and of course I just about bring everything that I try out the X.3 bar vibration plates MiraLAX sauna I sent you bring it all to work and make everybody do it right they want to write well I'm sure that the they have a full say baby I feel obligated yet so then we got to talking what all he's like oh my gosh I need get them what will you be like me were you to start ordering stuff that you do hear a podcast that all of a sudden everything starts showing up at your house think about that I was like wow since you left this is my newest attempt to hack okay I got these BFR bands BF armband blood flow restriction. Okay so the idea behind these are that you put these proximally on a joint and then you do low weight high repetition to increase blood flow and it prevents the venous blood flow from coming back K penetrates deeper into the muscle because the pressure starts build up in there so you not restricting arterial blood flow but not restricted venous blood flow okay and the theory is that this can actually increase muscular hypertrophy increase muscle growth growth hormone goes up but not just in the limb the body has a systemic response really is so that sounds kind of crazy though knowing that that venous blood can I be carrying back that waste gas CO2 the lactic acid so is it is all of that extra dilation and pressure together helping to penetrate the tissues at the idea I think the idea is that it helps to put penetrate the tissue that when you relieve it there is a compensatory dilation can flushes the lactic acid little experiment pair oh that autumn okay yeah that sounds fun so wanted to slap this on your right arm right on it way up and then all you do is just tighten it like this okay so it's like a flex turn okay here is how you can go as high as I can get okay aren't you listening and adjusting band with one arm now on the way Brown has a much bigger arm than the show is all about science were doing to get it if you his attention just if you just lift up will pitch ready so I brought a resistance band you can sit in your chair okay put it on your foot just do a few bicep curls as we keep talking okay were to look and see if one arm is been has that this is a this is a rubbery rope I have is from when you're handing it to me I thought it was so I'm holding here is just basically a yeah a plastic or robbery braided rope and I'm going to apply tension and then begin to to make curls essential while although no doable thoughts on both yeah and so this way we have a comparison we have it we have a placebo are okay yeah you like that placebo are dorky joke okay hold I'm having to flip the hand around because the yeah the the butt of the handles, banging his wrist little bit no yeah I think you have to speak back little bit and do that but I was so go ahead and keep doing that as were going to do this is our Instagram post for the day for sure just great audio so what so what Eric is doing right now some occult blood flow restriction I think it kinda makes its way through different weightlifting circles periodically and the idea is that you can increase venous pressure port your to decrease venous return resulting in increased blood flow to the muscle and so you don't have to use as heavy of weight but then you just do multiple repetitions and you can get some outcome so this all stemmed from me working with Mo we just about bio hacking and different things it dawned on me how much stuff I'm willing to try you try a lot of things I see no idea member that movie tin cup whenever he had anything you know he's got days get a hat on and has the ball hanging down ladies get the medication just walked in here age the trailer can't get him out of it yeah the shakes like a virus well that there is interest is only keep trying to to do this while we have this discussion we look more I just am I'm looking to see if one you deafly have more venous distention and the right arm that's actually that's on has this one has the a lot more actual which call BFR Yep bit well yeah the brand is BFR blood flow restriction okay yeah I mean I can necessarily feel the difference but it it is different so is interesting I actually have leg ones also I put a lot of those doing logistic air squats also stuff to try to figure out skills hey if you do that enough aren't you going to cause varicose veins oh Mike can't stand when a 14-year-old sitting something I'm not yeah I mean there's gotta be a reason but well you know I think it's working why can definitely see basically the bulging here in this particular vein you can see here it's not Councilman Reo here nearly as much so obviously it's restricting return back to the heart in that and one limb so just another little little things I will let you know for from seeing some significant difference here but that's what yeah and just pulled off oh no there's a combination it's a lot yeah I know you get it now see you will very very interesting and I don't know how would we measure that is penetrated better but what kind of parameters of the user that she has studies on this and like but I did look up in his studies on the South Bend strengths if I get you do that live on the UN probably happen again note no doubt well so earlier in the show we we had a few people who rode in and wanted to know about the traumatic events and in having traumatic events we had a couple people who said you know does near-death experience affect me or affect someone who's had it and how does it affect the relationship with other people in their lives and in you and I started talking and then you rent another you reminded me but you brought up that now we've even you and I both have had a couple of the strange experiences growing up as is a lot of different people doing you've asked me to to counter retail this story here will if it was wonder why we went here last week we had Cooper read on correct and we would talk about suicide and suicide is currently being studied at Johns Hopkins for both depression and PTSD right so the stopper got brought up and there note people that have had near-death experiences that is a profound cause of PTSD and people can ruminate on death and it did definitely has in it I can say from my own experience and it stuck with me pretty well and there's there's a couple things my life they were kind of weird whenever I experienced in that the but this one in particular was probably the only time that I actually thought that I was more than likely going to die and what happened in the year 2000 exactly one week to the day before Anne-Marie and I were to get married we were down in Galveston were down some friends Dave and will and another guy named Cameron Cameron lived in Galveston and rain at the time lived just south Houston what we went down to the beach and Cameron had a new surfboard anyone is that you want to show us how how cool it was and how he could certainly gallows to visit Hawaii were now or it takes real skill to get up and that in those low energy wave is I was thinking of Cabo where the word the ocean to be very dangerous with the huge undertone sure you now there are jetties though because it obviously is is eroding the beach and so if you've ever been to Galveston or down towards Jamaica Islander things they call it that had the St. Louis bridge there is there's these long jetties whatever the interval is that shoot out from the beach out to after the golf and we were right next to the area over there was a jetty on our left into our right was the old flagship hotel that you don't believe there anymore and had a really bad storm couple years ago took it out but regardless and in you can see people of it the hotel it was built on top of these peers that went all the way out into the Gulf and son is is that going down and were just standing in water can control my brain if I can go word or not it's one thing out and then I get to that next thing the next week because when you start looking it's about now thigh deep so it's it's not big waves: there is now nothing even think about what to figure out how this is a near-death experience so far it sounds so far as I like hanging out sound like silliest run up with a gun yeah and and they didn't fortunately but that Cameron goes out on his surfboard and Dave and Marine will and I understand it is watching and he's catching some waves and where you just casually drinking a beer to while he's out there doing it and that I do remember looking back that as we're watching Cameron serve that a wave came in it was probably bigger than the others not huge though Andy, wash upon us and then a few seconds goes by and then suddenly I'm not on my feet anymore and I'm underwater coaches and on base I can feel myself just kind of being I don't know's scurried underneath water and water go to my nose in such a huge undertow cam upper exactly what was I not terrifying how quickly something like that can happen it was out of nowhere maybe I had no expectation that there was even any element of danger of us standing there and then when I popped up notes so whenever we were standing on the 81 in the thigh deep water we were only about 20% annual court of the way down the length of the jetty that was on our left and we were good I don't know 4050 yards away from it now to laterally and so the water came it sweat me out and when I popped up I quickly realize that even further out was Dave and Marie there back behind me and were not even where the waves are crashing yet we can be we went underneath where all the waves were crashing up against the jetties and we popped out and you all we have is the waves as they are building up hello there crashing over and I can remember Dave yelling in the distant saying bellringer don't go towards the jetty I might yeah yeah did you say go to the judge's so I am comforted that Marie is close to today but I don't see will anywhere that I have no idea what will is and I keep trying to swim laterally that's really the only thing that I'm I knew away from the Jenny he was doing no good though I just did kidnap power the wave was pushing me and it ends up pushing right to the end of this Jenny rock right at the very very tip and I can remember as well I'm riding a wave and you hear crash the closer you get the louder the sound gets and then the wave pick up any of the crash will then I can remember distinctly that the water in the wave just before the storm to the rock crashes on the edge the very tip of the jetty and it just goes and is it goes down I could see all way down I could see him exhibiting muscles and whatever LOL although the rocks on my and in my mind since Marie now living in southeast and often times on the local news are talking about people who who died on the weekend just hanging out on the beach and I sent in my mind I remember thinking your to be on the knees and you not gonna make it to the wedding your wedding and but they should family together I guess you know and so then the head though the my my turn comes apparently so your watch so you know it's, I there is nothing you could do about it you look at all these rocks and muscles and sharp objects skip looking back on gigantic pieces or red granite stone
like – consider square cube but they deftly been cut right so they could build these jetties so they been stacked along the end and so then my wave comes in a seat I'm thinking it's it's can be head injury now because that you being hurled into jagged large wall so just a big wall of stone I choose so the moment I hit my first surprise is I in him head and then the crazy thing was I then just felt my body being pulled down and I quickly saw the scar from a nominee as quickly jammed my my leg between two of those gigantic stone dry and water is crashing up and basically coming over my head with each successive wave and had to get energy try to think about the timing it really could believe that I was still there and finally as I began to peace together I really haphazard but it worked strategy to get out of there I crested the top and the moment that I get to the top I thankfully I see Dave and then what he's doing is he's retrieving Marie I thought I was a bad spot they actually washed up on close to the the tip of the jetty but actually on the side and that is nothing like a underwater washing machine boat shoes and she every time she tried to step up Dave said she was being sucked you see video having that of tourists and in Hawaii there's a state of the get sucked up and then they can't get out of that little whirlpool all awful Gallic when the crime got crashing and that the big stones and Dr. of I got back a big cliff it's it's very very similar day in appearance the way it looked but think thankfully for Dave he's right there he pulls Marie up and inward which is all cut up right and the week goes but we made it obviously and we found will will have like 11 Nick about his bellybutton Sally have scary and then he got it he didn't get pushed annually as far as we did but regardless we were fine but I still remember having for brief a time lots of thoughts about that eyelids already kind of now should say comfortable but I accepted the idea that was coming it and the weird thing is though you are forced to begin to reconsider your life choices where you what your direction is what is it you're going to do in and I I would say that when you were clinging with your knees right essentially you clamp your knees right really thankful that you have that Suzanne Somers thigh Master yeah down the runway that's the one time readers like I'm happy about that life choice yet there's no saving my life that and the little finger good machine that I had there that I was always now I've done that I don't know that I have a thigh master anymore but I just imagine just clinging to a wall waiting for wave after wave of the way when they hit you just like his heavyweight just one dance pulling down on all parts of your body sent just like your bathing suits everything right and I mean I still wear my my shirt I think anyway being Labor Day was torn and that we are broken up pretty good and read and you know we we laughed it to the third series was behind us we all went on to enjoy each other's company and hung out's, talked about it people in this nobody bar restaurant across the street were looking at us as were still bleeding and yellow came like that you know yeah and and dad but what Marie and I both went through together going through that was comes bombing expansive we made we had several conversations about just that one evening that just that one 30 minutes that said they kinda form the way that we both were able to Kelly Golding and reevaluate where you are in life and then didn't really occur to me until a few years ago day what was what was that coping mechanism what allowed these different things to happen and I'll enough as I began to look through it I learned that Marine are actually fortunate that we did it together because people often times it have near-death experiences alone or away from all of their significant others or close family members they actually end up being not perceived well by those who don't understand their experience I can actually build up a wall lots of times there are people who have near-death experiences that they have a significant other that didn't go through the same sequence of events are the same expense at all and they actually have a hard time relating until the other person has time to recoup from that and I found that fascinating that just by complete block it number one we survived it in number two that we did it together that that wasn't something that became a barrier wall action was a bonding experience and others actually lots of the dopaminergic activity or dopamine release it happens and the realization of the things that you did right you get past the trauma and so which of course not I don't I just think it's fascinating because that is the way that you said that you enumerated note through through life you're going through other things and you you go back you can reflect on that you we came out of that so we can we can fix we can basically get through anything else that's not a life-and-death situation I really think that that's a lot of our veterans feel yes which is why they find community amongst other veterans because you don't look at the Vietnam era look at the rock era were people come back and third misunderstood get the PTSD that got traumatic brain injury all that kind of stuff and if you don't find your sense of community were other people can get it it can be a very lonely an anxiety provoking time without question into make it even more lucky and to bring and they the veterans it is exactly what I was moves on the misers reading through this we didn't lose anybody in our party out of the five of us that were together we all five left had someone been hurt whatever did net the scenario recovery would have been far more different that the same thing plays out people who have automobile accidents they have a plane crash or whatever but when a band of people go through something together it's traumatic and life-threatening with and that's one thing if somebody survives and someone doesn't it can actually really really way and that's what gives way to the survivor's guilt and different things like that so I just had a patient that told me that her functional medicine psychiatrist was at the national of PTSD meeting and in the meeting were a bunch of gastroenterologists around the country no kidding – it's good I was like wow I didn't think and choose like yeah will first of all in the intake for now you know that was throwing some intake form you do smoke do whatever is commendable to address certain things so I think that one of the criteria Medicare now was asking his have you been a victim of any trauma that you start going on the PTSD route and it makes total sense as a gastroenterologist if you are not able to get past an event in your life that's how come so many G.I. issues are tied to childhood abuse no joke and we've learned that forever that when you start looking at these different things that that could really be tied to something like that because the serotonin in the gut there's more certainly got that in the brain and then anytime you have any type of dopaminergic depletion or any type of cortisol rise that affects your intestines so all these kinds of things it's interesting because I'm trying to think about wow if I had the perfect practice it would include both the addressing not just using proper diet not just using some some bio hacking tools right like sauna like CBD but then also offering the environment where meditation can be taught mindfulness meditation so in article just came out this fits right and I just read this were they published that and realize how far you have to go mindfulness meditation can actually help with rumination not food rumination rumination of thought thoughts yeah so rumination of thought you look that many of the way it's that thing where you just go man can't get that out of my head why do I keep thinking about the negative thing why does this happen why am I worried about this why is this it's the rumination it can be OCD level Richard be over here but when you start doing a mindfulness meditation then you can ask you start taking control of some of that stuff and I want to hear I want to talk about how athletes can cope without penalty but my near-death experience okay super quick death I was driving home from but I was out of town knows to head the Google maps on that said turn right and I turned right it was paying attention but I turned right right before I should've and I ended up in a McDonald's drive through what yes that a car pulled up behind me and I was stuck in the drive-through I pulled right up there and she was hate what I get you then I was like panic that it will to do this with Joe I hope KB McDonald's it was in my car thankfully I was able pull over right away and throw it out yeah it's too bad Lloyd when they were younger than together I don't talk about it Donald you weren't there as there alright so let's use that same idea try to control your brain and control his thoughts let's talk about what you want to talk about what they the interesting thing the title of the together is how to get past how do you regain control heady because I never felt out of control in my thoughts and I wasn't struggling to find a happy place treating us like that and don't think that severely severed since just that one incident but it it made me want to kind of explore what is it that people are doing and what kind of routine do they get into and I was reminded just this last weekend while watching the College World Series Texas Tech within and I noticed that one player for instance Josh Young he always talks to his bat before he plays this guy was drafted by the Rangers I think number eight while and absent successful hitter etc. any eve we've all seen the guys are about to batten a buckle and then buckle and the buckle and buckle there are gloves right before they hit and they all have the routine so often times we dismiss superstition as dumb or inexplicable but we just do it and the truth is there's lots of research that shows that establishing a routine actually no matter how silly can allow your brain to administer the right amount of dopamine to where you find the focus necessary to achieve the task and even though it may set expectations unrealistically high for what the outcome is when those achievements don't happened or don't occur the level of depression is is less it's basically like well we can do it again next time but the times of people are withheld from doing their superstitions they almost inevitably always blame the fact that they didn't do the routine there so this all tied back to some really basic stuff that Tim Ferris and several others have said find your morning routine to establish your mode of success and I could start with making your bed every day or your routine for meditation or your routine on how you make your breakfast or just your routine on how you greet your family members but your routine matters you set up your routine you take control of your day that way and then it is you've set it in motion a mean Arnold Schwarzenegger Tony Robbins talks about it superset dilemma super successful people all have his morning routine with a get up and they do the stuff I think that you start using this morning routine and augmenting it by getting out and earth in general being to get outside little bit special with the sun shining start your circadian rhythm going right by doing that you can drink a big glass water start your hydration routine and then if you're capable to be really cool to do a meditation every day before we do the show I was go to the Colleyville lifetime I have got a little routine where I ended it by being in the sauna and during 15 minutes of mindfulness meditation and I think that that is a way to control even if this show sometimes you know we just go okay hope the show goes well least I have control of that portion of having contracts like a grounding it's it's it's as is a level familiar familiarity that you can embark upon something new and you you know that you have just like you said that level of control to move forward and and has encompass so key take away today if you're experiencing even just modest amounts of overwhelming feelings of anxiety start I just mapping out a new routine it's beneficial to you and that you can commit to not how small a really back in the next half hour and as promised Dr. Brown is going to address a little bit of the questions around hitting the box we'll see you on the next out this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun clear spoony our household, Ron Revolutionary guard is brought down a US surveillance drone amid rising tensions in the Persian Gulf says its shutdown of the drone of its own space while American officials say the downing happened of the international space in the straight of Hormuz the different accounts could not be immediately reconciled the minute she had her legs around and fired a missile at another time last week that was responding to the attack on two oil tankers near the Gulf of Oman the US blames Iran for the attack on the ships to Iran denies it was involved I'm Charles the Ledesma leaders of China and North Korea holding talks on the North Korean capital Pyongyang Russians likely focus on the state of stalled nuclear negotiations between the United States and North Korea the Sacramento Police Department is grieving the loss of an officer who died of gunshot wounds suffered while she was assisting on a domestic violence call Sacramento police Deputy Chief Dave a letter identifies the officer is 26-year-old Tara O'Sullivan there are no words to convey the depth of sadness we feel or how how how heartbroken we are for our family of our young brave officer following an eight hour standoff with police in North Sacramento a suspect is now in custody several of Joe Biden's rivals for the Democratic presidential nomination are strongly criticizing the former Sen. and VP saying that the Senate got things done with civility even when there were segregationists in the Senate Biden not backing down from his remarks amid demands that he apologize for the Wall Street is rallying this morning with the S&P heading an all time high the Dow is up about 238 points yes and P better by 28 the NASDAQ up 94 points more on the stories sent Townhall.com never forgotten apparel is more than just a premium women's and men's clothing line it's a movement to remind us to where American-made and serve those who serve us our heroes never forgotten apparel gives 20% of their total sales to nonprofits that support homeless veterans and off-duty firefighters and 50% to individual veterans and firefighters in need nationwide checkout never forgotten apparel.com use promo code Matt and ATT and get 15% off your purchase why have thousands of aspiring authors teamed up with Christian faith publishing to publish their blog because Christian faith publishing is an author friendly publisher who understands that your labor is more than just a book we provide authors freedom and flexibility throughout the publishing process professional book editing award-winning design and some of the highest royalty structures in the publishing industry and is always you will retain 100% of the rights to your book I was looking to find a company that I could trust one that assisted in the editing process completely Christian faith publishing will publish market and sell your books in all major bookstores and online booksellers as well especially Christian bookstores call for your free author submission kit 800-978-4812 800-978-4812 800-978-4812 that's 800-978-4812 Dr. come around here a host of project with my cohost Eric Rieger I see them I practice that I'm trying to is a whole lot more than just the bloating product yes it is a whole lot more than just exploding because of the polyphenols that you find in trying to think of these polyphenols these polyphenols can help you have more energy and polyphenols are great sounds like a hellhole more people than just loading up my family.com/project episode 15 second hour I'm here your career with your host Dr. Kim Brown this real quick is real quick reminder love my tummy.com/spoony love my tummy.com/20 everyone's a winner you can save money on your month supply about 20 and will give a quick shout out real quick to spoony show Trey trays chow down he was just picked up by three other radio stations are now syndicating really yeah yeah good for him absolutely so take the time Dave to check out trades chow down on the spinning at work it's a great show it's a it's a it's a terrific show so anyhow gradually stray and more continued success as the spinning network continues to grow there's a cassette last week just tons of great shows around spinning network and these need to do so if they were taken out so Dr. Brown we had hinted last hour that you are going to address some of the questions we had come into the email that only those have Artie signed up with Katie in the health box but there's a few who like a this sounds great they had some some some more I guess articulated questions the things that you would Artie plan on getting to so before we sent out the email to do some acclamation we figure we went to the show and it will send out later today yeah so were really excited we work on something we brought up a few episodes before about the digestive health associate member box and what this is is a curator a cultivated box where I want to put things to augment your life that have been vetted that I have seen as a physician my work in my patient population and we have teamed up with a great guy Stephen Roselle started this company called member box because he realized that we can deliver health to your house and that's our goal and so we are launching the KB MD health member box what that means is that when you sign up for this you will be able to get physician vetted products delivered to your home at a huge cost savings so I teaming up with member box were able to purchase these things in massive bulk or they are and then you can cultivate the box with the first month is really the month that I'm going to be my boxes to be the the I guess will be the mid-June box stripped and so in this box arrives at your house your health has arrived there what it does arrive make sure that you reuse recycle share very excited because one thing we did was we told everybody to this were to be launching this and a lot of people signed up which is awesome but a lot of you also asked what could be in the first month your fire to have everything so let's talk about right the first month now that being said something we've not been able to talk about in the other emails we sent out right that first month is going to be what I have seen work but a patient yesterday was asking me will you know I take this supplement for my eye health is there anything to be there for Isaac is that something I would like absolutely great question because what you be able to do once you become a member of this very exclusive community you can go on and there's gonna be a store where you can build different things if you need and I think if you want this these are all going to be vetted products and what I mean by that is we know that a lot of a lot of different supplements and things like that such as supplements or some food products and really really really cool stuff through DNA analysis they show that almost well almost 80% of them do not have what they say it has in their so in this box we know that these have all been third-party tested we know that the bees are very reparable companies and I have seen them actually work on people and so that's what's really cool working to be able to deliver health to your house and you know that you're getting something that's actually real and you're getting to huge discount to win win win it is definitely a win and another added benefit that you kinda hinted and hinted about there is that when you go and you you become a member of the KPD health box you have access basically to a marketplace and for lack of a better analogy think of Cosco you don't get to see the advertised prices of Costco but you more or less pay a membership with this one is really required membership the mom that you buy you get if you want to pause your your receiving stuff you just posit however as long as you are a member the KPD health box you can look at the marketplace and you will have basically pricing on goods that they cannot make public and that's why you don't see Costco run ads they have agreements with their suppliers not to advertise what their low costs are same for Sam's Club this essentially is an online more or less avenue for you to not only save money but to get it delivered to your home and then you get to have a physician show your lease and health space these are the supplements that I know have science to back them you can save money on and this is how it works for you and the outcome which you touch on is also there's some things you didn't put in there that a lot of people commonly take I seen when people come through the clinic or the G.I. suite and they say love taking so-and-so and so-and-so what's it doing for me and often times I've seen you say I don't know I don't know what that's doing for you coming, hint on that what's not here yet so this in the first month there's a few things that I don't see really good success with I don't see really good success with your run-of-the-mill probiotics for instant night everyone comes in my clinic is Artie been on five or six different ones and there's some science to show why traditional probiotics over a long-term have not been much more beneficial than than a placebo and a lot of evidence points to the fact that most of those probiotics get destroyed through the stomach acid into the bio and pancreatic issues next week were having a microbiologist to talk about this and probably sounds that sort of work and we hit it that I do see a lot of people that take unnecessary vitamins when I checked her blood recheck micronutrients it's all there not not really something that I would put a whole lot of people on because traditionally the diet a lot of people are taking poorly absorbed ingredients so there, wasting the money my big thing for this is to talk about the science talk about things that have been shown to benefit people get it for a savings and more importantly really get my patients not waste money I mean we talked in the last half-hour about how love the life pack and how I try to get into these different things sure one of those things is really trying that a lot of the different products that I take and see the benefit that I can get from them so that's why we chose in the first month and I will say this that to put it in perspective complete cost analysis on this box and I want to go through all these products and why your digit over $250 worth of product for the membership fee of $147 right so it's already $100 savings that you did anyplace else you can go to Amazon and build the spot you can't go to Cosco and find the six right is a very unique vetted products that are going to make a difference is a big point so when that let's say that you do go to Amazon or that you do go to Cosco you do go to any other traditional retailer that they were all familiar with generally what you see on the endcap which is the other the end there or what you see on the on them on the most visible shelves always but generally what that is it's not about them being the best product it's about them having the most marketing dollars is about them having the best placement in this particular scenario utilizing KB in the health box the physician has gone through and said this is irreparable manufacture and the declarations over the application of this supplement has a real benefit and you was really exciting this marketplace over talk about it's only going to keep growing yeah it's all you keep growing with reputable things I pay certain registration fees so that I can have access to different certificates of analysis like consumer labs is one of them picture I just read a recent one with a look that melatonin melatonin's and almost all of them had varying amounts when I talk to patients just every thought about the first half-hour or tried CBD didn't work 00 I tried melatonin didn't work so I tried this it didn't work it's both probably because what was on the label was 1/10 of what was on the label or vice versa or there's a whole of things we did also talk about that in the certain categories an article just came out warning parents do not purchase items for their teens associated with sports performance weight loss or energy because Racine team death now from supplements and when they analyze it it's because there's a lot of weird stuff in there it didn't and that's that's what this that's one of the many purposes this serves and that is basically to help the end user get real products with a real purpose with the real savings and quite honestly one of the biggest complaints or the worries that we have in the patient's come through the G.I. suite is well I've already spent this money on this and now I added this is this when working is this a good mix the cool thing is is what were putting in here can be taken together and it relieves anxiety so just think I'm not only saving money I'm saving time and I'm saving a trip to the store I'm not having to go in piecemeal all of this together I know that the physician has gone through and see Miss you already trust him with a I with a prescription we trust him with the regimen that you leave the clinic with now you get it with a with a consumer supplement level purchase well yeah so it is it's it's can be a physician this is what I would tell my patients to go drive someplace and purchase it what we do is taking the convenience out of that and so this is not good it's not prescriptions noted on his Christian all its over-the-counter things that I have seen that help me right I have seen it work on my patients and we know that it's it's a recommendation and if it doesn't fit you like man I like four of these items keep those for next month you want that I product yet that I product you you want something else you want to go beyond that and getting to skincare and beauty lots of stuff like that you want to get the advice of a holistic plastic surgeons products that are available there you can do that a lot some books to get there so if if you happen to be someone who says you I like God the way that Dr. Brown suggested this this and this but I actually want this other thing that someone else has in the marketplace you can do that there's nothing wrong and you could still treated like a store it's essentially store that has Dr. Brown's recommendations available and you get to see it but every single thing that's in there comes with the savings in the cool thing is is beyond health etc. the idea of the platform is to move this over to also everyday consumables you'll be able to still be eventually they'll be electronics and other things in there that if you were to spend 100 you probably spent 60 yeah and if you when you go to the landing page you can see that the copy there that what we wrote it was pointed out to me that innards 100% true to what were talking about we talk about Dr. Anthony you write up in Michigan who's on Dr. Oz all the time there's other influencers functional medicine doctors traditional doctors that are all part of this member box community that we have were sharing ideas right so when were looking at this I can go you know Tony has your has your group is your tribe have they done well with with this line of skincare products what is your best years I wanted to feature next month or let's go ahead and do this because we get a lot of feedback on skincare and Katrina tell me about your organic primal dental stuff let's start integrating some of that it's going to be so exciting so were curating boxes but were also sharing information and sharing experience that's what's so cool about this so you can go to KB MD box.com just for a direct link if you'd like to sign up and K BMD box.com going check it out if you'd like to to explore a bit more course you have any questions go to go check go to a gut check project.com and hit contact and there you can there's also a drop-down menu for you to say hey look I got questions about the yeah the KPD health box let's go hadn't mentioned this also that there is this it's limited right now because all you did is this the first boxer starting out there is going to be limited quantities of you would have limited quantities of trying to heal because a lot of the other people that have boxes try to use us so we will make sure there but has the first option in those other first and I can only imagine that like all things member boxes going out on a pretty big limb set up a huge platform worked really hard we work very hard to work with anybody else to talk to people and the getting in on the ground floor is the key to this day because I can imagine that as the marketplace grows and becomes more successful prices are still continued to go up so well and and dad to add to that so roughly 70 something percent of Americans adult Americans take supplements on the regular if they happen to I have any association with AIG I disorder are they going to visit a gas garage that number is now over 85% so chances are if you hearing this message and you're an adult you probably take supplements if you've always wondered hey in terms of my my health and my taking the right things it's worth your time to check it out because I think that the KB MD health box will deftly save you money save you anxiety and time and I will be delivered right strictly door so what's in the first month so this is essentially my box this is what I would say okay for the first month since you have to sign up to get the box 1st right I know that were to be sending big bang for your buck that's the case we want to find things that are to augment each other we can have a big value to this and some pretty interesting novel things that I've had great feedback from the other doctors and influencers and from patients so two things that I have not tried but heard great feedback from this is exciting is why we do this because were to be able to say this and put this out there oh Doc this worked out really well we can do feedback afterwards hey tell me what what you want this next month with a can of tuna sleep boxing note does does our community want this money go scour to meet with sleep doctors were going to talk real fine natural path through our good sleep okay let's find out what works then we go we came up with member box we find the ingredients that we want we we do the research and we work a deal out just like to do with Cosco so they can be in the marketplace so that I can then put it in the box so next month we go to sleep box for all we know nobody's ever really looked at because okay for instance I'm still practicing after all July I'm grinding stuff out I see things that are not being published because I don't have the time to publish I'm sitting here making new bicep curls Thursday morning instead so there is a great example when we go to these meetings and we meet with people in fact the first combination when Bridget Danner who has her own box said hey you need to meet get on Chris nurse and Kristin the medical director four mega spore biotic because I'm killing it with with your product trying to let megastore so that is good we are microbiologist organ have all next week but that is a great example of influencers connecting other influencers and this web grows so if there are people out there who know certain things like while my Dr. functional traditional whatever has me on this and it's working really well will look into it now you start seeing something really cool developing if we can expand this which is what I want do you have to do I want to do that functional armor research right now we've got we can send out questionnaires and say did this work to this company short for instance this got box this is primarily a got box I'm a gastroenterologist but it extends beyond that so let's look when you when you get this and you open it up and you looking to see what's to see what's inside what do you find the first ingredient John Dale my baby wiser than that will because we know it works we know that over 88% of the people that have bloating get better but I also know that after we've had the sound of the market for a few years were still seeing that kind of success right and the polyphenols and it are really important we haven't got your science article yet which actually explains more but until the polyphenols for everyday use essentially those are the molecules in the Mediterranean diet to make a very healthy and because we been able to work out a really good deal from a business model we realize it okay we can get this on the marketplace that's the cool things which can be available to all the other influencers also when I super excited so I'll try until if you're part of the community you probably already understand what I'm trying to lose if not go to love my Tommy.com/spoony putting Coates Mooney for discount learn more about it so watch until now the other thing Virga says before I'm not that big of a fan of traditional probiotics right because if you look at the animal data it even quickly the Godfather probiotics he is a gastroenterologist currently in Houston right yeah but it but he's been around do different places a emeritus professor out of Ireland he's been studying probiotics for the last 40 years were the first guys talk about I saw him at our annual meeting bumped into him and what hey email I got to go on this I have to go to podcast there was one of the dresser will one of a greenfield IQ on the sale of talking about probiotics can give me anything new and he summed it up because there were amazing in a petri dish just can't reproduce it consistently in humans there's a million reasons why because it's more complex sure but after teaming up and speaking with get on I realized oh my gosh this is why some people are doing great taking a different type of probiotic called mega spore mega spore biotic is actually soil-based spore form well bacteria but there is portable right key to this is these guys when they come into the digestive system they survived the stomach they survived the small bowel when they get further into the small bowel they do what he described as a handshake and it starts waking up a little bit by the time it gets to the ileum which is where you have a lot of your immune system right for goes into the colon that handshake allows it to give antigens meaning it takes the outside environment and exposes the body so that it increases its immune system so that it's always prepared to fight the outside world these poor based biotics have been around their soil-based they've been around forever we have made our world to clean so we have produced an immune system that's not used to seeing certain bacteria we are not getting healthier as a country were getting sicker I think one of the reasons is because not enough dirt yeah and one way to do that is to have concentrated spores that as it turns out when it gets to the: then they wake up they send signals to other good bacteria to start reproducing more they send signals to bad bacteria and it gets those bacteria to like the real impact on me and then they love polyphenols so when they wake up the polyphenols are our fuel to them so that's why I tried to oppose Meg's probiotic work so well together because they just augment each other mother nature polyphenols can do any better than that mother nature has a type of bacteria that can make make it to where they should so the science behind it is actually awesome so those two are Key ingredients if you look up the price of those gorgeous in the arty saving money guard said Monday the third ingredient I chose life extension digestive enzymes write and the reason for that is that the digestive enzymes we got some data to suggest that it actually works really well with the type of polyphenols that are in the pro-anthocyanins that are in trying to heal and it has been shown to actually help augment some nutritional absorption so we want to make sure that you get the biggest bang the reason why I'm doing that is because I see so many patients it when I add digestive enzymes that actually improve the third ingredient is really cool worth fourth don't forget fourth is almost organic tumor and the thing I love about this one is somebody out there Gallardo take tumor so the problem with America is that the quality varies a ton and the absorption birds so this particular one is a blend of turmeric plus bio pairing which is black pepper helps absorb and it has ammo which does blood glucose control Ryan Ginger forgot health it improves gut motility so those those four things synergistically to get together but it also decreases neuro- information because of the turmeric then the fifth Ingrid Brown five right I think so okay so the fifth ingredient is Vermont Village Vermont village Apple cider vinegar shots right so a lot of people about apple cider vinegar it's been shown to help with weight loss it's been shown to help with some digestive health and a few other things so many people take it but what's unique about this one is its organic and that you made it taste good and so were to throw some apple cider vinegar shots in there to see what happens and then these six ingredient is one that I've not taken but I've had incredible feedback on this and this is really exciting it's called truancy to your US II this is a huge value actually tried it is actually really really go you yeah oh yeah we did so this is a huge value add this is actually micronized hydrogen plus magnesium York like about titers and what's that will let's nanoparticles of hydrogen so why is it in their mood seems kind of bogus because it seems where they are really cool website it's about the science but I find a bunch more science buried in the literature where micronized hydrogen helps cellular oxidation decreased cellular inflammatory process and they've actually got data to show that they can help with wound healing and it's been used in like burn units and things like that it is awesome you can absorb it through IV through drinking it in the final seventh item and there is a special gift from me to my community and I'm really excited about that not to be a surprise so you can see that the first round what I want everybody to do is get this the kicker is as 100% moneyback guarantee so if it doesn't work for you Southaven real gamble strand outside will gamble tried out but I bet you if you if you do it commit to it make a commitment commit to one month take it and look yourself a goat you know what I do feel better what I really hope that Tammy I'm I'm excited I'm signing it my family I really hope that everybody feels like a disjunct can understand what this is a brand-new concept we got for the last half-hour gets a project episode 15 if you are trying to quit drinking or doing too many drugs listen to me you don't know me and will never meet I had a problem like you want I drank and used a party a little too much till he got out of control and almost ruined my life I realize I needed help to fix my problem before it totally destroyed me if you tried to fix your drinking and drug problem and you know you can't do it alone you need to call the national treatment advisors they'll immerse you into a 30 day program to replace your old habits with new habits and totally change your life and if you have PPL private health insurance the entire program may be covered fix your problem right now before it gets any worse get clean call now and learn more 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 are you tired of high cable TV rates sign up for dish today and get a $500 bonus offer while supplies last blast lock in your price for two years guaranteed call American – your dish authorized retailer now 800-570-6630 800-570-6630 that's 800-570-6630 offers required negation 24 month commitment early termination fee any auto vein restrictions apply call for details fast-track student loans can get your student loans out of the vault stop any wage garnishments stop collection calls and stop seizure of your tax refund give yourself a break to stop the stress and get your student loan payments down to as little as $25 a month based on what you can afford to pay 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 last half hour episode 15 is flown by we've had a couple of topics I think again I get deep on caving the health box I would like to file Jenny's waves and well now really get into the science is the first time we were busted to the head to the last half hour drive-through experience wasn't wasn't good enough for unlike thinking about his hair. His eye as a kind of don't want to bring it up anymore so you know one of the things we do over years were number one we look at medical literature we we talk about all that there is also something that a lot of times people to completely forget about that as we learn more like it's always done medicine is not static it's now always fluid now and just because something is been done the generation before it is nestling in the we need to continue doing correct and that's one of the things about the way that we prescribe drugs the way that we have a lack of using mother nature to help us out right now in traditional medicine so this whole evolution of the functional side coming up in traditional side trying to look at itself a really cool article just came out and it actually looked it was a meta-research a comprehensive review of randomized clinical trials and three medical journals and they looked at medical reversals and what that means is do you remember when estrogen first came out and Evers was built us a drink is a prevented heart attacks and that after sure 15 years or so are bad it actually increases heart attack rate and actually stroke yes one would not put everybody on it right there is a whole dimmer what podcasts it is all fine it there's a whole podcast on it's one of the really big podcast but they looked at medical reversals and economics and I was genomics was on Freakonomics a couple years ago with a look at medical reversals and you start looking at the data the data comes out you get training you like statins great everybody to be honest I have start look about you like I was saving lives here and so to this day if you walk into a cardiologist office and they have their data to show it one of the guys came on said I get that the data lowers cholesterol but we know that to what extent so that what expense are we actually extending is the health span increasing is a lifespan increasing start looking these different things so and the answer still out there I guess sure does I'm articles like this basically it's this here's what they took a look at they did a systematic search of randomized controlled trials in the Journal of the American medical Association the Lancet in the New England Journal of Medicine they identify 396 medical reversals spanning different medical disciplines types of interventions and populations so it is the D adoption of these and other low value medical practices that will lead to overall beneficial cost savings and beneficial health savings and increased lifespan okay so it's interesting that so much evidence comes out then we do something and then when you look back and go wait a minute did that really look at this so this particular article looked at things that they concluded is a randomized trial was very beneficial but then later became reversed like a estrogen thing like that I would bring that up because it's important to know that when we start getting into new fields that things are going to change is really a moving target and all this other stuff so that leads into this topic that when it were reversing traditional randomized placebo-controlled trials since whatever he says right you will meeting oh you don't show me show me the data the I know on the other side the debt is being paid for by somebody right you keep that in mind so kudos to the University of Chicago that just put out a new study which ties in everything that were talking about On so when we had Cooper read on we were talking about suicide in so they just put out the study from a first ever placebo-controlled LSD micro dosing out of the University of Chicago oh while interesting so anecdotally Silicon Valley entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley very very successful people have for years discussed the micro dosing ability of LSD okay and higher dosing of LSD is actually currently being studied for looking at helping with PTSD helping with severe depression so these guys want to know hey what is micro dosing and can we actually doesn't actually do anything so they took a group of 20 volunteers and for once a week for four weeks they gave them 6.5 µg 13 µg or 26 µg atypical dose to get high is 100 to 200 µg so this is significantly less than what that high would be significantly less okay and then they they looked at behavior trends they found they look the behavior trends cognition negative thoughts and a bunch of other parameters all surrounding this and the most important thing that they want to find out is do you get do you hi did you expense any hallucinogen hallucinogen is hallucinogen hallucinations hallucinations word hallucinogenic with some time so they're looking at that and what they found is that surprisingly those that took 26 µg felt a little something okay so but it's a very small group don't really know and what they curiously what they did shows no change in mood no change in cognition and no real change in academic performance the flaw to the study and they openly admit it because this is just dipping their toe in the water right they want to jump in and be shut off the Germans University Chicago bold of them to do this when they talk micro dosing in Silicon Valley it's done every day yeah and they actually discuss that these receptors and things have to be tuned up for so doing it once a week probably doesn't do a whole lot for cognition and energy and also think sure but doing it every day and getting those channels to open up yeah that's what people talk about they say that your your mind opens up to different things you're able to accept new ideas in a much different level and things so their next level study they said you know admittedly we really need to start stepping it up to see if it's to three times a week if it's whatever but it's just exciting to see that were now starting to do clinical trials on these nonpharmaceutical type things what's really interesting that they would so it added 20 subset I don't remember if you said this but none of the necessary were suffering from depression no correct they didn't get into that all know they were just bringing people and most of that is one to see the face yeah are you getting high okay, what are you getting high now is to be a dangerous thing to bring into society don't you think that the probably this this this study really is probably the tip of the iceberg they know that they want to map out the frequency like you were just referencing and move further along my phone cut out here anyway they want to do the increase the frequency to see if that changes anything and then start adding in comorbidities to find out what the yeah well I mean it's it's fascinating because this is you can't really do an animal study go you know hey are you feeling are you feeling are you seeing hallucinations were desired but in all pharmaceutical studies it starts out with animal the yet to determine a toxic level on that thing and then you move from there and then you go to the pharmacokinetics of it so that's the phase 1 then the phase 1B than the 203 than the four that finally gets to market or somewhere between three and four little Alexa go to market to consider this more like the phase 2 portion of the clinical trial we've determined that talk into enough Silicon Valley animals which is like a guest with Erica looking at that enough people have been doing it and been doing it consistently that it's probably safe at this level so now it started in a controlled environment they watch them the whole time so there there would keep an eye on it was like they gave it to him and said no go out shopping to you you haven't here is Amazon cohort so what there'd now have to determine is okay we know that it's probably not hurting anybody how do we continue the momentum not turn it into a drug so that it's unavailable to everybody to a large segment of the population and it is just tip of the iceberg and seeing where it's going so by the decriminalization of psilocybin in Colorado and studies like this I really think that there's going to be a whole future which is good to be beneficial for anybody that suffers from depression evidence of receptor all the research is going into anxiety depression things like that I think it's can be fascinating to see how micro dosing of psilocybin or macro dosing of suicide and micro-dosing as well as the macro dosing because studies are going on now remember were not we had our conversation with Dennis McKenna for of the heftier Institute and course he and his brother Terrence were the ones who really cannot pave the way for educating people on silicide and mushrooms how to cultivate and had to responsibly apply them to different things he joined with Dr. off the Art or Arthur Hester the half-truths to think it's in leave it send out Idaho but they conduct the studies on psilocybin in I remember him saying that psilocybin and LSD have very similar outcomes however the they believe that chronic exposure to LST might be damaging to the heart or something like that were still sobbing he isn't I don't remember and I could be be mixing channels there but I'm pretty sure that that's that's at least what he felt like long term however he still said that there was benefit it while describing what people have gone through to do that and you say that they want to make sure they don't over prescribe her overuse so that is not barred from use I find that crazy and you're exactly right but that's the approach unfortunately of the of the government arm of the FDA to do that because you can find tons of opioids that will kill we in a day that's that is 100% my point that that's why I said looking for look at this were to submit three journals Janet randomized trials and they found 396 reversals like oops we are wrong right sorry hello lot we know that if the traditional FDA route is doing this where we can end up reversing it than there should be more liberties in looking at these other alternative treatments even if it's not perfect we may end up reversing that LSD may end up causing some heart conditions that the Hector Institute has uncovered first who knows but knowing that traditional research is not flawless is the key here on my point with with the heftier Institute is its responsible research is meaningful so if they're able to uncover that and then you have people who are really trying to experiments that they do better wouldn't it be more beneficial that the research is allowed to be conducted and to be paired with the appropriate people so that they can make their own educated choice on the Avenue they would like to to use to get better and it's it's people like Dennis add that the end and now the University of Chicago they're able to put some lags behind that so that's not such a mystery doesn't make it doesn't make sense to keep keeping a cover what's passing because we were I keep saying it's fascinating I just realize that's my repetitive word when I actually am kind of excited about medical literature today so there's so many things are going on so when we were at IFN I met the CEO of Arcturus all oh yeah okay so what this is I was walking by the booth and they had a booth that was just very scientific and start talking to the guy. This particular product which works on the endothelial Gleick okay licks meaning the lining of all your arteries and lines is little small Geico calyx in the lining of pretty much the intestinal lining as well that they have been doing research for over 20 years to figure out how to smooth out the glycol calyx which is what allows the artery to be elastic okay and not stiff the Lord's blood pressure and if it's smooth nothing sticks so they've got data animal and human data to show that when your Geico calyx is smooth the cholesterol looked around that were all trying to get down by given drugs and statins and all these things sure just keeps on going dry cholesterol then gets used to make your steroid hormones to make building blocks that can affect when the like of calyx gets stiff and it actually has little bit of damage in it so it's no longer smooth road Potholes I will then that high cholesterol sticks and that's how you start forming plaques I was like whoa how do I not know about this in the data he showed me was pretty cool they've got electron microscopy looking on it they've got these animal models I met with her PhD that was there that I found out why it was initially going to be a drug yeah and that's part of the problem is when you feel like you discovered something it's it's my my my my mind because I have to get this I've Artie spent $20 million to this point I've got a recoupment I can't have somebody come in and out of the drug companies do coming and they do a slight knock off in a ring when you start looking at the different PPIs that come out wondering we were talking to Daniel from Arizona president Dr. Richard S Rogers she said I see the progression of when Tagamet came out in the Zantac came out in the accident came out and I was like why do we need another one of the same need to write oh because they darted on the math on that they realize that you get a little tiny chunk of it all that the dues make a deal with a couple insurance companies and get paid for that's really what that's really what any drug has to do but eventually it just becomes a race that's why cost so much money would it first comes out in the got seven years to recoup it never goes generic he walks away from insurance companies instructor Hance so here's a great example of they been working on something for 20 years that could be a big game changer who knows about a case, start taking lymphoma blood sugar before my blood pressure must see if I can find any trends sure does like all things I will try first anything that I do know going to recommend to somebody to do all of bile hacks and everything like you have somebody else tried them and I want to try person to happen so we'll see what happens with the start with this arterial soul but there's a great example oh the reason why they can go the drug run leaving something out is that they couldn't the patent would be too easy to be compromised oh really so they get that far into it and they realize only anybody any drug company can just coming to take it just command will be to really yeah so then so that it becomes a battle of yields be squashed by bigger player yeah and that's it just so unfortunate and in and not to just sit here and just bash companies that make devices and in drugs not all of them are bad and not all of the scientists there are not don't have altruistic ideas but the the overall machine is kind of unstoppable right now well it really is when we talk about the healthcare industry is somewhat dependent on itself and its dependent on chronic illness illness yes depend on chronic illness I would love to see RK BMD health box change the health landscape of primarily DFW Metro I just did that will have the hat will be able to fix will be more concentrated area sure would be fascinating five years from now after people start getting diet recommendations we had chef Patrick was tell me earlier your payment when you lost that box goes let me know and I'll put in healthy recipes for free whenever you want absolutely yeah and you we have people volunteer to help out like that so imagine this box changing healthcare and doing it at a bargain price improving people's lives and were actually helping the overall cost of healthcare in an environment which you keep track of that data when the be fascinating and unfortunately the moniker of healthcare itself is has a connotation to where it's it said it's born a different term now wellness care because healthcare is often times associated well with I'm sick I now need to be repaired or I'm sick I now need to be fixed or put on a protocol etc. but really the the best the best medicine is prevention and if we were all to basically adopt the mindset of wellness wellness protection then I think that we will be will begin to see that type of evolution of populations demographics where will this was once a disease thing there but he came in foreign turns out that the trend is beginning to to go down or people show up with this disease but later I put on the spot throw out a few things that you would if you could have a community that you would get them to do for wellness prevention bonus prevention first I don't think that people are that educated and where they are consuming sugar and it's I think that if you start with that and you begin to add up those grams of daily intake of sugar and then all of the sources that your body even interprets that sugar that maybe you don't see it written out and you knew what it was doing to tax your pancreas and the rest of your body and if you have an injury what you're doing to prolong the healing time by consuming large levels of sugar that would be one thing right out but the job just understanding that that readily available Slidell simple carbohydrate is can be incredibly dangerous to you and you don't even know what you still perceive it see don't feel and unfortunately your body definitely knows it's occurring and you're feeding small little microorganisms that didn't love the fact you're taking it in and they're using your body as the vehicle to do what they want versus what you probably want so I would I want to do a couple more Stan Moore sand definitely percent too long to the show and its obtaining description you know what we should should community definitely community a sense of community is super important loneliness is been equated to smoking sidebars that's right so this really I've got the articles I need to get into art are pretty thick and pretty cool but I will actually be talking about these tonight live on Facebook see below zero SOS Summit Siebel SOS summit so if you want to do it it really did you with me and I'm sure a lot of people will be this community that Siebel SOS Summit is a great example Facebook groups like that just like you're saying when somebody keeps going to a doctor and the doctor says your fine but you don't feel fine yeah that's what's creating PTSD right you just get frustrated with that then you gravitate towards community dilute police go me too yeah and so fortunately there's these different communities that have grown I'm not that big of a fan social media but then again there's a lot of really good things to come out of it like that like support their central support groups sure for all different kinds of things across the world the hard part at social media meet everybody's connotation are not to see everybody my connotation is social media is the negative aspects often times forget that there are good things that come out of it you can connect you do you can stay informed unfortunately the moment you begin to give the limited data on what it is that you're interested in then you just get peppered attentive is that it is not is not interesting to me at all and I and and I can't I can't sit there and scroll to Instagram and just look at different photos that I don't care and all it's that's not really my thing so when you're talking like there is sugar so for tonight's and for my three hour SOS zero summit talk have to do I need to talk about stuff that the other docs haven't talked about right so our graduate secret weapon sent a bunch of really cool articles in preparation for this one of them is really interesting that I need to read about 10 more times are but it's the sulfate chronic Siebel got this biosis as a protective mechanism really yet now I do the same veil it that seems like somebody's way off she's very long yeah it's very long it's very off course but now that I'm actually really a couple times unlike in one section here it's really interesting they actually describe is the author I actually think it's a blog by Elliott Overton and I don't really know their history approach looking up at that it's very well written it's very thick very science easily seem to know the science at least maybe we'll get hold of them have them explode better this is really interesting section you're talking about sugar so sulfite is an intermediate and sulfur metabolism you can also ingest sulfides trip they are extremely toxic it can lead to significant oxidative damage so it's important that the body rapidly converts it to sulfate date and okay so the sulfite to sulfate conversion relies on an enzyme called sulfite oxidase which uses a cofactor called molybdenum don't know him mode molybdenum okay okay just to the month if this enzyme is not working properly it can lead to two problems the toxic buildup of sulfite and sulfate deficiency okay possible factors disrupting this enzyme this molybdenum deficiency is caused by Dreyfus my goodness demon of Roundup it is a potent chelator of that cofactor that is necessary so glyphosate substitution for glycine it it is mistaken for Glisan you we been saying all along that this is an inert notices the the whole thing of Roundup this is a reason that I've never ever thought of so the Sue ox enzyme contains critical glycine residues which could theoretically be replaced by Dreyfus it's just so disappointing because now you know it many have associated the glass for safe around up with Monsanto make no mistake a large scale pharmaceutical company Bayer owns Monsanto now so these are the same people that are purportedly doing these health research clinical trials submitting drugs creating medical devices getting them through getting first-hand approval and then being suggested by physicians and these are the same people that still now and under the guise of her going to help out our food supply etc. so that we can produce X, Y, and Z they're just moving product so this could be an example of what you are talking about medical reversals earlier and is using life as a just medical reversal of the differences that it's not a cohort of people it is the population were being asked to so this article continues to on member how everybody I mean I'm busy every guest are all just I know is busy people are getting sicker and they are not worth seeing it's like the same thing are we now seeing gluten intolerance are we just looking for a renouncing SEBO are we just looking for watch this this author goes on to describe a deficiency in sulfite oxidase caused by life of Satan would encourage the growth of microbes that are able to reduce highly toxic sulfite to less toxic hydrogen sulfide we know there's two types of Seabrook methane predominant hydrogen type right now so the theory the reason why the article starts here is this a chronic adaption in other words being bloated and sick with bacterial overgrowth is still better than being toxic from sulfite while so the article that I will not be able to get to that is deep and really cool so this one maybe you know things that make you go then the article want to get into is the Pro anthocyanin the Pro at the sign addends containing polyphenol extracts prevent the inhibitory effect of hydrogen sulfide on human Kalon a site oxygen consumption in other words why do people feel better so we know people ask us about the biofilm and bacteria yeah we realize that the tannins in here actually combust the biofilm also yeah mother nature now it looks like in this particular experiment these guys always give you the quick rundown of what they showed is that when they took human colonic tissue and the exposure to hydrogen sulfide which now we can say is a reaction to the diet that you're eating right hydrogen sulfide lead to inflammation because the enzyme to convert it to get rid of the hydrogen sulfide that can be overwhelmed and then it leads to oxygen depletion in the cells of the colon which then lead to oxidative stress yeah which then leads to leaky gut will is really cool they took the colonic tissue and they soaked it in hydrogen sulfide another trick that same tissue and they did the same thing but they used great Apple and Member one other Vino polyphenol in separate matches and as it turned out it neutralize the hydrogen sulfide while protected the cell actually encourage the enzyme to make it neutral so there's a lot more science into it but you could see if you're eating at a traditional process diet your body you may end up developing irritable bowel is a protective mechanism from the other crap that may happen and so if you're going through this whole process mother nature your veggies that kind of thing get your get your polyphenols and has a way of correcting it all so man what a crazy show today so we promised we would have tips here the tips come with the routine that start at number one number two get enough sleep number three try to eat organic all that you can avoid the life estate before trying to really educate yourself on the shortage taken in and number five delightfully in Galveston don't go swimming in Galveston and get out a McDonald's line please like and share gut check project go to get your project.com let us know that you've done that just like anybody else is done we will interview with the contest for the free John Teal and Katie in the city can see this is a great show I'm glad that we talked covered a lot of ground this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun we're spooning hi I'm Jay Ferner CO Quicken loans 30% of Americans who are planning home improvement of $5000 or more will pay for those renovations with a high interest credit card that may not be a great idea a better idea may be to take cash out of your home with the Quicken loans 30 year fixed-rate mortgage the rate today in our 30 year fixed-rate mortgage is 3.99% APR 4.08% call us today at 800 Quicken or go to rocket mortgage.com rates of 1.25% be received at the real cause of the nation into an automatic license nobody states and was a very progressive employee of the month to go hiking hit me I'd had a new idea for our song with any price tool so when it's like tell us what you want to pay hey hey hey and trombone was my mom why you say well-defined carbon jobs at bejeweled by Jed then we just all the finger 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Influencing I think during Re: did you want to stuck in a bad bundle get a great bundle AT&T vibrant DirecTV and get $100 reward card requires 24 month TV 12 month Internet agreement redemption required limited availability may not be in your area if you qualify.com/bundle AT&T that are subject to change new customers requires a minimum 49 and nine month 12 months after the price hiring secular Internet 25 minutes or higher minimum $40 a month early termination of return taxes fees and restrictions apply, visit.com for full details and it is now time for the gut check project you were here with your host Ken Brown MD I'm Eric Rager this is where you check your ego at the door because nothing got the table Doug can you do it for the person or the few times it is my title there MD so I'm here with my co-third-grader cRNA like that mix it up as you can tell I will do it different almost every single will episode 14 at what we are on episode number 14 that is correct so today we got a really cool desk alone and I'm super excited about this sort of things that you what I have done we get a lot of feedback from people that are been writing in is that we bring just on that were try to learn some stuff from correct and I think that almost everything will episode I become more knowledgeable it is expanded my mind I think today is exactly where we need to be because we have somebody who's a great storyteller that's got some incredible experiences just throws himself out there that's kind of a sort of how work, doing everything right now and if you're new to the gut check project I think it would you find that what can I both want to do out of the guest is find a little bit about their journey that took them to where they are now because life is a journey to find that you you're going to be satisfied once you know more about yourself and how you know what you want until you have exploded morality so exactly so work we have Cooper read on the show today and he is somebody who is really it's a lightning she actually inspires me and other people around him and he just jumps and of to explore different areas different ways of health and easily get into a lot of different stuff but if you're somebody who's kind of stuck in a rut right now this is your show converted to cover novel French stuff that I think is actually something that can change both health and mind yeah absolutely happy at think that Cooper has a great story of just being dissatisfied is where he found himself and decided to do something about it so allowable I'm not going to ruin his story that will get to that whenever he joins us here about just so happens that is doing something about it in a field that I have tremendous interest in and medicine is going that way and I think that we will all be talking about this five years from now as how really to improve mental health without question without question real quick of course if you also knew to get project and even if you aren't should always go to love my tummy.com/spoony where on the spoony network so/Bernie will give you are trying to heal outrun teal at a discount that you won't find hardly anywhere else so what is that all 20 oh that makes it so unique to Brown so this is kind of exciting this is my baby right here in a little shout out to Siobhan Sarna who is the head of the IBS SEBO SOS summit because probably much to her relief I finally got done filming my webinar for the experts on that is so nice and we got a chance to one of the reasons why I was looking at the other of future lectures and she's like you're the last one to do this of Mark Pimentel the psyche shroud it is we've got to know Tom Osborne that that is all these other people and Allison C Becker she's like you're holding up the whole show they yell for those who are into keeping the health and follow us and get the emails that we get every week that we send out just be sure and tune in because what Dr. Brown is referencing is see below SOS some and if you've ever been interested in why certain people suffer from G.I. distress and they can't quite find the answers that's kinda what this whole summit is about not everything is going to apply to everyone but there may be something in there for everybody who tunes in supercool about this particular summit and what Siobhan is put together is that you have people that have had different experiences doing different things right and my experience was in trying to find a natural solution for people with reputable bowel syndrome bloating change in bowel habits and that's how we discovered trying to with two trials which have been published and we been out now for about three years and the reality is worse in the same clinical results that we did in those trials which is 4 to 5 people to get better if you have the classic symptoms of when you meet you blokes now the other cool thing since we launched is that we have since learned through other scientists contacting us that the polyphenols in front your action extremely beneficial for you they work on an antiaging level there's data to show that you are living goes up which helps get rid of old and aging cells this data to show that you increase nitric oxide to the muscles so if you're an athlete so it's really exciting I started this journey to try and help people that were bloated that have bacterial overgrowth and we just keep expanding and knocking down your doors and that's what's so exciting about this I'll try to love my tummy.com/spoony putting code spooning SP 00 and why and you can also experience the so this is my baby show little support at least cash in one coupon that's that's your mission I want everyone to commit to cash in one coupon so that I know that people are at least realizing the importance of both gut health and overall health threat on the battery cell five for a friend or family member that may separate from my G.I. issues so I of course got check project like and share like and share like and share thank you for all of the new subscriptions we reached out to our KB MD health community for the first time this last week to introduce to them the contest where we are giving away to at least five winners the signature protection package of arch on tail whether it be with community CBD natural flavor or sentiment and keep those submissions coming get a friend get a family member to do the same for you like and subscribe to get to project either on YouTube or on iTunes choose an email through going to KB MD.com Sino community health.com and you click on contact sheet is an email it's easy that's all you have to do sign up and then in July we will be drawing at least five winners so the public to be more solid and make you kick the science this time why do you call that the signature package what do those two things blend so well together CBD and affronted absolutely no great thing that you're doing with CVD is that everything that you put behind this and this and I'm in if you're listening through the audio only I picked up both the CBD and the John Teal you have real cases that have come through the clinic and was shown improvement so using this combination is what you found to be the most predictable I guess solution for people who had some type of inflammatory issue and I won't go through all the different disease states but essentially combining the CBD with our Tron tale is the polyphenols and allow the CBD to even work better how does a Duke well there's a little enzyme in there that Decker dates are endogenous CBR cannabinoids like Ananda might for instance name FAH and good polyphenol intake actually prevents FAH from becoming overactive in eliminating the CBD from working were supposed to work exactly and so you're taking a science today but that's on, called the signature package they each make each other better and that's how come we teamed up to have the KB MD health CBD powered by Alexa absolutely so likes it like a chair guy got check project thank you for all the new subscriptions as last week that is that is amazing they tell us it would take at least 20 shows and were doing about episode 14 so we certainly appreciate it so now in a move into Dr. Brown what you have on the news topic for today well so on this topic first of all you couple quick shout out side I am horrible with time zones and we were going to have a fantastic Dr. Dr. Gabrielle Lyons she's a medical doctor in Manhattan she is a fitness expert muscle centric protein expert she did her graduate studies looking at protein she was in a call in and where to talk about peptides because that's my article to talk about little bit later peptides and unfortunately she text eventually gritty role in like oh time zone difference forgot about that and so she is a doctor so we couldn't get her to the work you have her own prolonged show trip organizer bring her here or would you be able to do it she's I think due to have a baby pretty soon so I don't want to have a new mom flying around like that which probably zoom her and but she's super smart and the reason why bring up is because we had one of our listeners asked something and this is right in Dr. Lyons were real house I was a said Trisha's email Tricia called in and said hey can you recommend a Kazen free protein powder now coming up soon in a week or two were to have another fitness expert named Max Fairchild she is super smart peptide expert he formulates nutritional products he's really the one answer that question Chris were to get that to you right away I can look it up but honestly go with the people that have already done the homework they've Artie tested it is the people that have looked at all the formulations were to find the best one for you so keep those questions, and it absolutely and did you have anything to add to video shot you on awesome podcast that just aired early this week I was I was on the intermittent fasting podcast with Melanie Avalon and Jim Stevens I think this is the second or third time a bit on their going on the dance anytime I think yes and yet the second time it's great we talk about fasting the lot more than fast we talked about fasting the medic diets we talk about all kinds of different things and I thought it was a great show and shout out to Melanie she's got a new podcast and I would be going on that on the well go one of the 24th I don't know when should you publish it but she's got so she has a hold of the podcast but that was really cool check it out intermittent fasting podcast and you can hear that episode and we talk a little bit more than just fasting it's those are two really smart people very very fun people talked about that's awesome I did want to bring something up to you I was reading a blog article from Chris Kuester here recently in a reminded me somebody member a little over a year ago there was this new message was being pushed out talking about sitting is the new smoking that's right so never talk about a sedentary lifestyle will if you remember it wasn't that long ago did tell you and I, laugh there's a lot of truth behind what you eat oftentimes you can't necessarily out exercise and what was that someone said you can't outrun the fork you can't outrun the fort that was it that's a shout out to somebody that we do have have in the show at some sometime the name Todd Smith is a bodybuilder trainer out of Omaha Nebraska he'll supplement stores and I heard him say that once like I am still sure what is is a lot of truth to that you know if you want to be healthy a lot of it comes to aware which of your food fuel source is is it healthy for you and what is that translate to so what Kuester was able to illustrate quite well is that if you're sitting for long periods of time throughout the day he can't really out exercise the damage that you're doing by sitting for this law say that again so so and this came in a blog from Chris Chris are who we know well and was your oven is great guy he wrote a blog all about sitting then yes he did any reference to a handful of studies he basically put together he does a great job of always aggregating different things that he's reading pulling great information making easy prey to can I consume but essentially showed that even marathon runners when they're not actively training is another there's other issues that may be going on with marathon running of long-term inflammation exposure anyhow but that aside there actually at more risk according to some of these articles he has and therefore coronary artery disease because of the long periods of times it they're not training and that are not running the marathon site are sedentary and that actually affects their metabolic rate from sitting so then you begin to die little bit deeper looking into sitting while working if you go to in office and you don't engineer of engagement your computer and your having to type for long periods of time you're still sitting obviously you're working you're working hard but possibly examine what would it take for me to get a standing desk or something similar that would give you some variability in fact Robert Hendrickson has a a new a new product that easily come out with rover that we had on from full bucket health that's right after the show he was sure the silver color prototype to have some sort of portable version of that so that you can get away from just sitting all the time you admits it's brilliant anyway it solves a lot of problems of course it gives you a portable office that you want to go but at the same time you now have the availability to not be confined to sitting while taking care of work will essentially what Christer pointed out is sitting for 11 to 13 hours a day and many people may say when I don't do that I get more than that and you may think that but you drive to work and then you put in 6 to 8 hours of sitting you wake up you set out have a cup of coffee and follow up on whatever it is you do you come home drive to work you may work out but that is a matter because they can sit down to eat when you sit frequently and then you sit down to attitude to maybe watch program at home before you go to bed that amount of sedentary non-movement over time as an aggregate the you simply can't out out exercise according to the studies well it's interesting because if you sit for more than six hours it's been shown that your lipoprotein lipase actually goes down and that's what burns fat you can actually have a decrease in your bone mineral density leading to osteoporosis and then ultimately increased coronary events due to high blood pressure and coronary artery disease than when you stop and think about it sitting is not very good. And if you look at how we evolved we really didn't do a whole lot acidic we were always on the move around so let's come up with some ideas right now we want everybody to at least try for the next week to sit there and do the so when you're put a timer on your desk chair or timer on your desk I think about it you can elevate your desk a little bit that there's all kinds of different options out there for you to do it what if you if your teacher if your teacher and you feel like that you are engaging the students on a particular subject maybe change the scenery have a walking meeting don't take the elevator if you can take some stairs what else oh I was just thinking that the first for the whole teaching thing to remember the meeting that we are at in Utah with the bathwater, and one of the moderators before they even began made everybody stand up and shout around guess I just get energy upright just get everybody moving and then that's how she said she starts all her podcast like that she makes her guess do that just to get them up and ready which is really cool so anytime you get up and do that I think that elevating your – we walked Wenatchee had a patient from Veritas the big company that does this trip we walked around my office and looked at different ways different deaths we can do for the employees last of it with this be something you would like and they were all unanimously really interested in that unlike Robo was talking about he thought that would be really difficult the beginning but suddenly he's standing for eight hours doing all his work no big deal at all none at this temperature and it don't you find it days it weaned up having to pound away a lot of computer work compared to the days were doing a lot of scopes are you doing a lot of clinic visits I have more energy after doing all the movement throughout the day than I do when I'm what's up once a month twice a month I just have to kind of pound a lot of work on the computer those of the most draining dates to me in it and I really didn't move I just sitting there panning out on the computer and its signage oil will melt let's just throw one other thing in there so people sit that they sit all day than they come home dad and then they get on their computer the blue light now your jacket up your circadian rhythm and I mean where really try to kill ourselves and like everything that we do in life right now is basically shortening our arches our health time is really what it's doing we have this were doing those other things to try to correct it but these are all easy life hacks that we can do get out wake up one of the greatest depending what time you wake up wake up really early so the sun is out for the greatest things you can do to turn your circadian rhythm is get up go for a walk on an empty stomach with sunlight to convert the vitamin D you turn on your circadian rhythm you're telling your brain were going to do this and it does a couple quick things number one you get your body movement to get out you little sunlight and you not waking up and immediately sitting down which is what a lot of people do and you know what I'm I try to do this I wake up every morning really early and I make my coffee in the French press and I got my little routine habit or routine is pretty important if you like a lot of people like Tony Robbins of the people to say Arnold Schwarzenegger like really highly effective people they'll have a very specific morning routine chair Tim Ferris Joe Rogan all that I will sit there and start regular coffee then work on the charts I took it one step further and I got a vibration plate I tried to stand on it and I should do my truck; unpacking this setting was it turns out it's really hard to do computer work with vision vibrating (32 oscillations per second or whatever so you have noticed in those vibration plates are kinda interesting but if you lock your knees out man at that there really affects model skinny legs I just take the population straight up to my eyeballs I can't hardly see much anything that so just simple access something that will go talk about in the next half-hour is going to be a another hack I was listening to one of the greatest biomarkers of all time Ben Greenfield, he talks about migration place he talks about getting out or talks about the get some sun they were talking about peptides which is really what I wanted to have Max Fairchild on in his you come back on here in a few weeks to talk about peptides and that is another little hat these are all things you can do that aren't that not that difficult to really make a big difference in your life and offset some of the stuff so fierce that they're stuck in traffic or if your sit in your cube: every time you stand up your bosses sitdown or your student teacher says sitdown there's ways to get around it just make sure that when you have it under control you can do all kinds of stuff were going to be talking with Cooper about different ways to engage with nature also data that's another little way to get your brain stimulated to get your circadian rhythm and track and all that definitely ending of these these are things that if you're a member of KB MD health here pretty soon Dr. Brown his mood coming up of the system where we can start putting together some of these small tips that were finding out basically just amassing these studies and how you can take these into practical life managers hearing this morning I work at XYZ I understand it's tough it's up to make a change what we want to do is see if we can help people find easy modifiers to make those changes meaningful to you and a little teaser may be have it delivered straight or maybe have it delivered straight to your home is by building a news coming out about that over the weekend so if you are on KPMG health.com and they are member of KPMG health look this site no later than the Sunday maybe before but probably no later than the Senate would get a really really really cool announcement on something you been working on for well over a year well over a year with some really smart people out there shout out to Mr. Zell of course but there I want to make a difference in my community sure and I think this is a way to do it and I'm really excited to start implementing some leasing's meeting other experts do all kinds of stuff and you would be Sony and if you're not a member of KPMG health aide cost nothing you said to go to KPMG health.com Pan down on the button on the poorly designed website that basically have no about myself and about we are working to prove it we brought in and we have an intern in Internet started this week we have someone who's actually going to help us do stuff thank goodness yes thank goodness that read had to find somebody that's like half our age to do that I am super excited to have someone help us get those things done and he sees already off and running in and helping as the redesign so that will be great speaking which I need to address something you know that the processor is you write yes so several of you and by several I mean a few hundred of you have not have had issues while trying to make purchases through the website on KB MD health and it is truly no fault of ours it's two healthcare people try to run a website but the processor since we do process CBD sales all of the banks collectively have basically come up with new parameters that you have to be vetted and you have to have a right processor they're basically trying to prevent fraud so for every reputable business is about 20 they just aren't there try to weed them out so we're it it's it's inconvenient for us but were were getting through it and I've been kinda forced to handle it in the evening some phone calls from some folks so that we can do some manual transactions not a big deal though and not all bad has come out of it I've met some great people some great supporters some people just have questions knowing you like I could totally see you know it's not bad in fact I'm been invited to several weddings and onto a vacation with whatever whomever they are but I did get interesting call I guess it was three days ago from a Jonah from South Carolina and he's been watching the show because his daughter who lives in Houston found found the gut check projects weight and they been sharing it back and forth they like the episodes well he's now customer of KPD health CBD but he wanted to tell me specifically about what CBD was doing for him and on a moment to full depth on this with you but vagal mediated PVCs that was basically where he was coming from he said that his vagus nerve in his interpretation of it was that over vagal stimulation in even even in that I I'm still trying to wrap my head around it but would elicit PVCs and throw him into a fit and post and say the vagus nerve is a exquisitely complex thing that runs from the brain all the way down so were to have a vagus nerve expert what outpatients that's his work as a PhD he's working at vagus nerve stimulation and what it does and where can go so we can that's good that's a whole separate episode but I love the fact that he called and why do you think the CBD helped him I don't else really good question his his interpretation was that something with the vagus nerve whenever it wasn't performing properly he could have PVCs and throwing himself into a fit but something that he'd found out is that using high quality revocable CBD dose actually prevented him from having a fib episode taken last summer between 812 hours 28. Go in a fit anymore and he had the same experience so far with KB the CBD which I thought was great in a course is anecdotal's are not making a claim but this is what he's found utilizing that he's been in in conversation with his with his cardiologist to talk about that but all that aside I would like to dig in deep with within the course the vagus nerve is it's think that Vegas is Latin for wanderer it's a nerve it is the peer sympathetic nerve is a great regularly because all way down and regulate your gut as well and it's interesting because even in the SEBO form committees and things people really try and make some sense of it they try and figure out how to manipulate the vagus nerve words can bring one of the world's experts on church to do a deep dive real geeky scientific dive into it to make sure that your vagus nerve is hopefully the beauty of CBD it works I can adapt to gents which credit goes where you need yellow you get the faster time goes by that because that's another half hour so episode 14 will be back here after the break with Cooper read in just a moment why have thousands of aspiring authors teamed up with Christian faith publishing to publish their blog because Christian faith publishing is an author friendly publisher who understands that your labor is more than just a book we provide authors freedom and flexibility throughout the publishing process professional book editing award-winning design and some of the highest royalty structures in the publishing industry and is always you will retain 100% of the rights to your book I was looking to find a company that I could trust one that assisted in the editing process completely Christian trade publishing will publish market and sell your books in all major bookstores and online booksellers as well especially Christian bookstores call for your free author submission kit 800-978-4812 800-978-4812 800-978-4812 that's 800-978-4812 never forgotten apparel is more than just a premium women's and men's clothing line it's a movement to remind us to where American-made and serve those who serve us our heroes never forgotten apparel gives 20% of their total sales to nonprofits that support homeless veterans and off-duty firefighters and 50% to individual veterans and firefighters in need nationwide checkout never forgotten apparel.com use promo code Matt and ATT and get 15% off your purchase Dr. Kim Brown here host of project with my cohost Eric Rieger I've seen in my practice that I tried to as a whole lot more than just the bloating product yes it does a whole lot more than just exploding because the polyphenols if you find in Alicante what are some of things these polyphenols do affect these polyphenols can help you have more energy and polyphenols are great it sounds like it's good health: more people than just loading go to let my Tommy.com/and we are now back for the second half hour episode 14 gut check project I am now joined on my ride by Mr. Cooper read digital entrepreneur and social engineer Adaline Cooper doing very well guys I'm happy to be here so you're also a maps advocate as well as the fun I'm going to screw the name of Zenda project I volunteer correct absolutely as in the project and maps organization the multidisciplinary Association for psychedelic studies you have an advocate for that can push that but I really am a volunteer present no projects yet what is what is on the project and the project is a project it's underneath the maps organization they set up the arts in music festivals all around the world and again hold space for people that are having difficult psychedelic experiences that have story after story was the reason why want to have you on so bad is because I really do we we've actually interviewed Dennis McKenna who is a godfather in psilocybin there are in my world there are no FDA studies going on with her looking at suicide but for different things and were to jump right into your history as soon as I countertop but we always try doing the shows at least we get through one academic paper to get everybody up to speed at least on something try to teach something so there just yesterday the US news to know the report where it showed that US death rates from suicide alcohol and drug overdose is reached an all-time high so I think there is no better time for somebody like you being involved with the maps to start integrating some of the stuff because were clearly not doing a very good job were committed suicide more often were dying from opioids and all this so what I wanted to get into on the fringe a little bit is something called peptides so I am not an expert in peptides of Max Fairchild is Gabriel aligned Debbie alliances that we were talking about but so I try to teach myself a little bit about this and so I found an article on a peptide called BPC 157 soap BPC 157 is a peptide chain consisting of 15 amino acid so peptides are just very specific amino acid and Ben Granger was talking that when does a peptide become a pro to Mauritania yet and if there's there's really do know the experts on this can say well it gets really weird because growth hormone is still considered a peptide but it's really that it's a really big peptide so that it's just very specific amino acids put together so BPC 157 although it's considered synthetic it's actually a protective protein which is found in the stomach and it's known for its anti-ulcer effects of the known about that for quite a while Dr. Lyons is the one who told me to start using my guest wrote you practice I'd never even heard of it nobody ever talked about that so I'm super excited that I'm now getting into this aspect so researchers are conducted numerous rodent studies that show that it doesn't protect against of protective effects but it also seems to extend beyond the stomach and intestinal tract so BPC 157 has been shown to benefit ulcer healing the stomach intestinal damage such as fistulas and inflammatory disorders but there is some anecdotal evidence to show that bone and joint healing also takes place what I really wanted to get into is in my practice I talked about the brain got access all the time so I found an article researchers out of Croatia have done rodent studies looking at the influences on the brain got access and this actually comes from 2016 and what they did is they looked at DPC 157 and over a very long period of time they tried to show how not only is it protective in the stomach but it is very useful as a peptide in other areas of the body specifically the brain is funny because their thought on this was the first auditing to think about this when we top of the brain got access in the first one actually show that was Pavlov I have lobby and respond Escher fistula in the dog ring a bell here's it turns on the intestines that's a brain gut response yet is so we all have this and so the main thing that BPC 157 does it is a growth like peptide so it turns on genes that increase blood vessel growth and nerve growth since we were taught to draw ever is if you're like me going what BPC 157 turns on blood vessel growth and nerve growth while that's while it has wild so wild so what they did as they looked at a bunch of different well brain mood issues and I specifically looked at these animals and so how does BPC 157 help with this/want to go through in the articles really Berrigan charity coupons along so I try to go through a few things because if you suffer from any one of these but start talking some peptides okay depression they proved that BPC 157 actually acts on the dopaminergic and serotonergic systems as well as the GABA system member a few episodes back we talked about how CBD can directly bind to serotonin right much like an adaptive gent it's almost like this is adapted and also they show that in these animals they induced depression and I don't I really get into how they actually do this with the animals on and off they served with divorce papers nudging winter jobs only or that you like the big firearm then whatever it something you know I can't sit down for too long so actually induced depression measured all these different levels and they showed that serotonin and open dopamine and GABA all came back to normal levels after being injected with interesting 57 okay super well, this will alcohol withdrawal they showed that it actually counteracted acute and chronic withdrawal as well as healing the liver and the G.I. tract that is very interesting but it makes a lot of sense on why people can't escape alcoholism oh one step further opioid withdrawal allow just kept on saying you with death rates from suicides alcohol drug overdose will result in high and what you're going to talk about as some psychedelics have some great promise I'm learning about this for the first time and I'm reading this albeit animal models but it's very hard to get FDA to approve human studies we know that so there has to start with animal models sure it showed that the opioid receptors would be down regulated after getting it so that they didn't have that yearning with her like demanding the opioids that's that's actually really impressive then it gets into disease states multiple sclerosis BPC 157 effectively counteract the development of brain lesions and MS induced mice traumatic brain injury they actually stimulated nerve growth and decreased brain edema after inducing try to bring injury spinal cord injuries it improved rat tail movement after the end because a spinal cord injury so basically this is what I really consider a true life hack if it difficult this can be put over that's what I want to have his peptide experts on so I have not use the personally I've not given it to my patients yet to them just discovering this but when we start combining these different things sure it's a natural immediate well it's a synthetic amino acid sequence but these peptides the really big in the bodybuilding community the really big and antiaging community which sometimes I've always said that I felt like endurance athletes and bodybuilders know more about nutrition than any gastroenterologist they manipulate the body through sure so what we talk about here and you're going to carry the torch now because what we talked about is some pretty cool stuff like we've covered stem cells CBD photo bio modulation these are all easy to implement things that can make a huge difference in your life so I was looking at the star some Facebook groups that are that are really proponents of peptides and I will set a couple emails on that question to have no like right now whenever for Max and just for us to come to think about something that we have the answer specifically from the research that that we have I know before Shire for 157 but what makes it synthetic and is there a is there a natural counterpart that that does that and the other one would be with all of the the advances are the disease states that we talked about would benefit from what about peripheral diabetic neuropathy if you're talking about our generation and blood flow in an angiogenesis or growth of blood vessels and that's that's ultimately what ends up you got get there poor guys got diabetic neuropathy in his feet and he is sitting too close to floor heater and burns off the ends of ends of his toes he can feel it or or starts taking Lyra cover gabapentin or something and you know all those commercials yeah cause depression above the head falls off to me all those things so what makes it synthetic I did I had to look this up on examine.com it's considered a 50 amino acid sequence it's only considered synthetic because the particular sequence has not been extracted be in the exact sequence it's probably believed to be a large one that gets cleaved that works on the side of protective area of the of the stomach so it's only synthetic because they've not been able to actually extract it in the exact same sequence from a human possible that it lives somewhere even if it only for a brief period of time we do seven found in its whole form yet exactly it's like many things that you know you can either I've had this I've had this discussion with different pharmaceutical companies where when you look at that will say oh it doesn't get absorbed with the be like systemic effects in the argument from the pharmaceutical company is owner but when you take our drug you won't see this in the blood in my argument is when you eat a steak yes he stake in the blood yeah right you break down ESU and amino acid complex and that's that's that's one of the things actually happens to do pharmacokinetic studies they say oh take this is it in your blood doesn't get absorbed okay white why my feet swelling wide what are right I heard or whatever you that since the whole prodrug to active component thing you know it's basely taken in this hold this this is and what's going to the action it's when it's broken down or assembled into something else that is in the doing whatever it is yeah totally so BPC 157 were to learn more about it and when we do have a real expert on about that I'm just can eat his brain and just or her right however the expert is not only messy that's just some work I just subscribe for shares are welcome to gut check the project's mess so speaking messes I don't know while that is even a good segue really at all so I think that we should go ahead and not reconnoiter here and go read and reread and reintroduce Cooper Cooper read I like he said he is a digital and social entrepreneur now that you found use your way there in a completely different career path and where we probably may have crossed paths early before didn't but didn't really get to know each other right right absolutely no born here in Texas I was born here in Texas small town grew up in Paradise Texas tiny little you know I know there's a dot for paradise but it's out of nowhere here in North Texas and then now what where did you find yourself after you are you left. I yeah so died I felt paradise when traveling around for you know I get a plate a year of college baseball Texas Boston University in the know then I went in the Denton and got really to the arts after my baseball careers have over from there I decided I wanted to go into performing arts so went to Dallas got a degree performing arts and from there I got opportunity rip Chicago studying commie and no second city in the improv Olympic up there just to show talking about your your life is one of the comedy cards like you to say offensive stuff and just blame it on the company joined the professional comedy Association it's much easier to get into the actors Guild yeah yes I like what if about you to the cards always want to do it whenever I offend anybody absorb what you say yeah right as it I don't mean it this material anyways and from there I became a father and came back to Texas and had to get a real job and quit bartending in and doing comedy stuff on the weekends got into the surgery technology that assert became certified surgical tech and started my career in Denton and then moved to back home in Wise County Decatur Texas and wise region there specializing in euro spines in Branson orthopedics will you that orthopedic so you know he worked with one of our former guess right would that be Dr. Wade McKenna yes Ashley work in Canada several cases it had II have a very just so many fond memories working with that guy he so good so talented what he does in and then his you to ongoing research and education for himself and just what he does is just awesome I'm a big fan Dwight McCann I like to give them a shout out some point and say hello where he says hi you were actually huge fans also when it when he came on the show I thought that was one of the coolest if you have a chance look at that episode whatever number whatever number that stem cell self there is something that you did look at did you ever do it who did you assist him in any stem cells are to do only just do the open cutting stage and open cutting staff you know and then he would get in and then you'd spin the plasmon stuff in and re-administer that no one's closing was done to help with the healing and think that you know like that after he was doing that in the MLR PRP experiments to hear he had his own centrifuging at using one or two dedicated people there they were just there is basically a mini lab and rail are right in the middle of the signing Alec while we were doing the casing I would be spinning that the PRP and separating all that and then at the end of it it was a know what the assist job or whoever was helping in a close up the case they would administer that for a for you know the healing process and regeneration goes on that is really cool why Nancy was into any course she had added to awesome ortho's there have chronic and repair of the asset I spent lots of time working with Dr. Barrow he's these were my favorite surgeons is a great great position and a great guy and generally you know just anyways those guys and in his first assist is her sister Jacob has been with him many many years is one of my best friends and and I super sharp guy and also super fun and really get another college baseball player yeah yeah so it sounds you had a great environment right there did something happen what you dislike said screw this through down the live trocar or whatever it is take off and walked out or what happened so I really I wasn't I wasn't happy or fulfilled after certain amount of time you know I like I said I was in Chicago studying calmly all the stuff and then I was like okay what I get a real job raise a family do that sort of thing so Jacob Mayberry invited me Dino to his okay maybe should come check it now follow Romero and I in the case and see if you want to go get certifies of something you want to do and so I did that audited today with Barrett Ruth Rivero at Bridgeport and then from there is like a family survive and do this for a while and then you know several years ago I know that for five years and I start to just kind of check in with myself and realize that I'm not not happy now at my home life I'm looking back on now might be a little bit of depression you know I had all these great things going on had a good job is in a happy I like the people I was working with but you know there was just I was tired. He didn't have a creative outlet I didn't have that outlet now you did know if you do the performing arts than comedy you've got that brain that needs to constantly be stimulated like that right right and so when in surgery became so monotonous so robotically you know do insane things and you know I I rose up to be no really good you know in the in the spine and euro area and then and even that you know everyone like I'm helping people you know it's fine brains working on that and that's awesome that's exciting I love it but after a while I just knew that I did what I wanted like my heart was call me to like be out and about and go moving shaking and then but as my my health started deteriorating as well with liquid like to the 50 and that the depression and asked her to gain weight and really was the unhappiness with the way in all not really unhappiness with the way but just like the not being fulfilled and being unhappy plus the weight gain had every check in with myself and figure out what was going on there so start taking steps to get healthy so let's look at that what how you think that you ended up becoming unhealthy in that environment because unfortunately we see a lot of people in healthcare and I think there's a lot of reasons for the hours stress the shift work all different cards think so our healthcare providers sometimes are sacrificing themselves without even realizing it to try to help other people how do you think that process happened with you I'd I mean I agree I think that's what it was he knocked the long hours the unit with its physical work here on your feet you know 812 hours a day that's good thing though now that's a great thing to be moving but once you know that the long hours and just being of exertion with the mental exertion as well you know go and the emotional you're working with people you're trying to save lives here you know and so they take their jobs very seriously so mentally physically long hours that will sale that do you say that standing in one spot you leave your working as the technician and you often times especially in difficult case your holding a pose for a very very long time something being articulated something being cut out and you really are sacrificing a lot get you get aches pains etc. you probably absolutely accurate is this holding these Sina you want to move so understand back when I was a med student we had to do that yeah and you like a member universe aggressor redoing a gunshot wound like 2 AM in your hold his retractors and you start getting fatigue start shaken surgeon starts yelling at you like trying yeah three a little bit of sweat and I hope it's not going to fall into the sterile field you know yet is all kind of distress is that going on yet for sure but I think it's so over a long period of time I think that that that weighed a lot on me just with the stress that goes on with the environment and in that and then justly and not not being out and being active is much being indoors so it putting in those hours and you not try and hit on this in the past but what was your interpretation of maybe this is an institution of health that I'm in but make no mistake it's an institution and it absolutely needs an industry what did you think about the hospital industry where you're supposed to be delivering health and then maybe some of the execution of some of that as it is rolled out right and that's where you have met so morally I saw some things but didn't sit well with me being in that industry right. I saw that that said you have the patient the becomes accomplished someone that's there in the middle right and you have for me in a lot of cases you would have the insurance companies now and the doctors going back and forth and becomes more like an a number you know the patient becomes maybe a number of verses like eyelets really care what's going on here rather than like walking into be like okay who's is insurance what you know what the insurance here you know in and so that for me is like it was just a is one of the minor things but as one things got my attention you know that like it's it's not where the healthcare system is for me is like need to be more focused on you know the patient and patient health patient well-being rather than be no worrying about you know needed the money parts in the insurances and I know that out that all plays a very important role in it all for sure but I just cannot seem like there the patient was kinda being put to the wayside in this I now and so that was for me one of the indicators like I don't know if I'd want to stay in this enough for I make a career lie I know that the three or those that you referenced Rivero McKenna and have Blahnik they all were incredible patient advocate I will as I say so is the hard part I see nothing and struggle with it to it's like how can I deliver the service in can you know this a lot of times it's not even can I do this without insurance it's driving have a place to allow this you try to do a charity case here recently in almost got blocked when you're trying to give up your time and that kind of stuff gets in the way when you're like look I'm just trying to provide a service who needs it we get others who are able to basically start so yeah unfortunately it's super complex absolutely we have developed a system that is an organism that feeds on itself we have developed a system where will I crisscross or talk about all the time yeah we are trying to fix the end organ thing and trying to and then people have figured out how to make a profit on it right I remember listening to Peter Addie a talk one time or he's use a party thoracic surgeon I think is he really felt like he was at the bottom of the hospital and people were lobbing eggs yes try to catch the eggs like when we quit throwing the eggs out the window that and that's kinda what you're getting at where your mind I can see that you are very in tune to your feelings nature and everything and that's really cool that you took a step back and with wait a minute this is not for me write Dr. Bill to solve it so sure not to go to hospital ministration politics and arrive the eye that I was working I was editing blogs for a guy who's really in the sustainability name Rob Greenfield and when I was working with him I was like man how to weep back I would love to try to take on the medical industry and just the waste that they produce the thing I so I'd like to have the ambition again if I like how can this happen but then again you know it's such a he there so many things are going on with it but the act is something that I can't solve I took a step back and said well this I would I would love I know it's going on but I'm texted back and what's best for me and so that led to me I did take one last hurrah as a travel surgical tech when travel took some contracts the United States Tennessee, where my mind was on that oh it's not just wise Kelly not just a problem yeah yeah was there it was there a strong proverbial straw that, I was like you know what this is this the part that is nonnegotiable for me or was it just counted everything together kind of at EL it is all Elkanah came together and it was where I was in life any of these can I felt like a time to move on the I love the people I work with and and you know I was I enjoyed my time doing that but at same time as I was I was ready for more I want to be fulfilled I wanted to I need a challenge I need a challenge titled how old is your son of the sun so I have a daughter daughter she's eight right now so back didn't see you whenever I stopped all this you know she was 56 yeah yeah yeah really and so I imagine that you you left there for much more lucrative investment banking type thing yes so quite the opposite so what I did is I think a little money I did have and I purchased a school bus and herded into the camper and then spent the rest of money on Christmas gifts for the family that year in then yeah converted a school bus into a camper and went roaming around in the mountains of New Mexico and Libya Colorado and no plan really other than I wanted to get in the travel like I'm like now the time to do it I want to figure out a way to make a living no traveling so what do I do I get the school bus converted numb site I start inviting people on these adventures of the mountain second as I get a venture you know pay for gas give me a lecture and not show you great time have connections in New Mexico and Colorado and you know various other places in Texas so that was my first kind of entrepreneurial thing how people find social media yet is utilizing social media I started I became part of this group called superhero Academy I can find them superhero Kennedy.net or anywhere online and get a really good thing going on start learning about social entre nous or ship just how to utilize Facebook and Instagram and YouTube to make a living right to to purchase about their the brand yourself right so this is back in 2015 or so that I started the 2015 716 anyway so far I started that's how I started back the tyro knew like that's that's where I was posting this with my close community friends and family on Facebook and now this were my first few customers came from and went from there to a long bus or short bios have a short bus it was like when it was an old law wasn't it was a 1998 Thomas and it was more the shorter versions wasn't a long one but it was necessary like a short bus I was like one of those admitted weird big block at tween area as I get a big and blocky and now but it only had like 67,000 miles and was a diesel when I bought it from a kid that was moving down to Texas A&M and had it for his buddies to go fishing in and paid 4300 bucks for it and I was like this is a little nugget of gold right here that she sounds pretty awesome like it like your first year just ended up being like serial murderers are you by your Jason is a guy yeah my trash back to him he probably would've lightened up on my trip that we had a good time and that's what it was about that was about getting out and finding yourself in exploring and being out nature and also just the travel experience in the cognitive effects it does have on the mind and just in and just how healthy it I think it I think a lot of our health starts at are in our minor thought process in her brain so that's what I wanted to show people hate get out do what you love but also here's a healthy way to do it by getting outside and pushing yourself challenge yourself let's go skiing let's go snowboarding go kayaking you know let's go hiking up in the mountains so that's really cool that's actually the stuff you do it was a bit was like an adventure bus it was an adventure bus yeah and that's what it was absolutely Jerry problems with that that 98 diesel in the in the cold ever fired up yeah I mean to mean no serious problems there was a couple mornings are there were a couple mornings where if you select slow start but even use a fire right up and this thing was a beast it was it just ran and ran and ran and I think part of it is because it had low mileage and he was just kinda getting broken and you know like a decent run forever and ever and it is getting broken in but now it fired right up in the mountains that is the exact opposite of the job that you are doing is a surgical tech maps act opposite yeah that is a bit just real quick before we have 30 seconds to break but okay did you feel that the moment you began to engage with people on a personal level that suddenly now you're starting to feel an elevated mood versus always seen patients are asleep absolutely absolutely that was my favorite part of actually being in the surgery is like you know commuting with those patients before they were when it went under and in yes when I moved into and started talking people one on one that was where I really start to thrive wherever this Latin is half-hour ending in that joint to begin for the next hour but will be back in just a moment and that's not where his story stop seated at this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun query spoony this our Townhall.com intelligence committee issuing subpoenas for former national security advisor Michael Flynn and former Trump Deputy campaign manager Rick Yates is part of the committee's ongoing investigation of counterintelligence issues raised by the molar report Committee Chairman Adam Schiff says the two have refused to cooperate 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Trump says there is no harm in lessening that's what he tells ABC's George Stephanopoulos who asked the president whether he would accept campaign dirt against a political rival, foreign sources somebody call from a country Norway we have information on your I think I want to hear Mr. Trump insisted simply listening to the information would not constitute outside interference in a US election Dr. higher on Wall Street this our Dow is up about 94 points NASDAQ ahead 51 S&P 500 index up 12 points more on the stories@townhall.com are you tired of high cable TV rates sign up for dish today and get a $500 bonus offer while supplies last loss lock in your price for two years guaranteed call American dish your dish authorized retailer now 800-570-6630 800-570-6630 that's 800-570-6630 offers required critical negation 20 from early termination supply call for details if you are trying to quit drinking or doing too many drugs listen to me you don't know me and will never meet I had a problem 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our number two episode 14 catching project check your ego at the door nothing is off the table where joining Dave I Cooper read digital and social entrepreneur and of course a maps advocate and a volunteer position to project we will get to that in just a moment but let's touch base again in case you've forgotten love my tummy.com/spoony get your discount on our Tron teal today in the big challenge for everyone everybody to commit buy a bottle for a friend or family member use that code Cusick is a winner there and don't forget if you really want to you really want to win subscribe and share the gut check project go to catch a project on YouTube to get a project to channel or search for catching project on iTunes subscribe then all you have to do is go to KB MD health.com or get check project.com connect with us let us know that you did it to be entered and draw at least five winners in July 5 words literally going to get the signature protection package which is trying to heal and KB MD CBD one month supply no cost to you enter as many times as you want the course will to see what happened to me of times you can subscribe so I but will will go that route if you're new to get your project we are hosted on the spoony network and there's an amazing array of shows that they are that dad Dr. Brown and I both have trying to take in as many episodes as we can everything from family meal was chef Mark Conway to know but it's too big to tryst with 20 that's with Alisa Shakespeare in a course the great Jeff Patrick Mosher's on this channel also so tune into this bony network if you ever want to learn a little bit about food it's not just gut check project on here talking about new innovations in health and new approaches it is also a lot about food and food science and improving the way to cheat would just try to make this is about make everybody better and were listening to Cooper talk about some really cool brave changes in his life he saw that his health was heading in the wrong direction pivoted and got that bus/camper started doing things so you start to discover nature and thinks a lot of things that I like to do sometimes with Eric all acts I'll ask him philosophy quotes if he can remember the philosopher who said it so here is the philosophical quote of the day reality is wrong dreams are for review rally is wrong dreams are for it that's that was what Tupac did Jesus talk was a philosopher man like EEA you know like say what you want about it but a lot of people love them but man is some content you just can't new to the game straight to the hip-hop repertoire not as nice Cooper welcome to the show the other episodes but yeah no you don't normally it said said little Wayne little Waylon today but I don't know I think is pushing the boundaries on so it's not it's not it's not silent geez and lasagna cheese lasagna is a boost as a whole website dedicated to little Wayne quotes posted in a wheelchair called a virgin mobile I have yours wrapped that truth that I just liked how what what points are you going to maps.org the new sailor cited writes music would you like to put all some of Everett is leading yeah you do it on the right some crazy. So hey we we left off last half-hour you are talking about that the bus you have any you have any experience in the busted may be didn't go exactly as planned yeah I had a couple know the one that sticks out the most though as we are in Taos New Mexico and it had been yet sounds what now love town elements my favorite so we were but we'd been there for about a week or so was with my brother and my friend Amy Shane we were descending at time of the mountain some other friends were over in Angelfire so we like minute but then down the mountains and it is time to go home and we came in on this like really sketchy like mountain trail it wears like I was I had been there several times and came in like the normal way but for whatever reason the GPS Lake was late go this direction and I like and save you yeah and I was like okay cool working to go this way in the back way in and so naturally like when we left like there was a hit there had been snow in and you know the temperatures drop to about to zero while we are there so we're heading out like go back that direction and see what happens and it was not a good choice we got up I was going uphill on these frozen Rosie on this is Charles all dirt you know this is just rocks and dirt and I might die and you and you a sketchy going up on Mike you know what I was gonna go with it and see what happens and no okay now we start sliding me know and I can't get it under control wind up I am trying to press the brakes at one point words, this incline gives airlines on this bus it and I don't even know honestly have no idea. It really cold yet you know we are just sliding and back back back back you know we cannot almost scan were going off of the mountain side a little bit was like a steep drop off but it would been something I could not of gotten out of so I tried to like steer it back in it just as I was sliding backwards or turn the wheel I turned the wheel and got it like just perpendicular with the road and try to pull out but even even turning in trying to get out of it is made the situation even more and I going into the bank of the road saying on the bus and everyone well after a lot of silence strays silence a lot of you like any nobody has a lot to home of the engine going and being out everyone just quiet like what like why did you take us this nightly understanding about adventure but I like this is not for us and he only is my brother is just back there shaking his head like I don't know how to get out of this is like I understand you got insured for the show exactly know this is go anyway so we go to the bank in the nose of the bus is stuck into the side of the road in the snow and all that so we had to get Dick to the city officials or the Rangers I think that the park ranger showed up in his big old snowplow monster truck looking thing comes out in the tie chain on and yank us out and get us going back the opposite direction back to the safe road is a trail used to make she made down yeah yeah they did they did because the rest of luckily I was like downhill so it is an easy cruise down but but that was a sketchy moment because like we are most went off the mountain backside and we crashed into the bank on the outside so so when you are following this snowcapped thing didn't have a bumper sticker that said if you can read this. It arises you know that I don't know if Manny was like I want to try to go at it that that's not I would not do I would only like Joe will like Mossad I totally admire you from doing that and I think that is what so cool you left this career you jumped in both feet and you start pushing your boundaries exactly including that that's why haven't even having these these events that you got through and you became little better for that's what if you're on the fence on something you worry about failure failure happens I like how you brought along some innocent people for you great friends and that they are their friends today I don't know why but they came with me and they all live distorting until their own versions of the story so and I think that's what I'm about experiences right you know I would love to hear their versions of screaming quiet and is as yet is, the curtain behind the said yeah but that was kind of the most sketchy moment beingon set amount not be able to get up get out there yet but other than that though off on see you know the you you had to buy New Mexico and Colorado you then he told me that you had moved to to contribute to Mexico the right idea is that right after this or that was yes shortly after I was a little bit after I wanted change of scenery had been hit in the mountains hard and it was you know February or so light as subtropical sounds nicer now that the freedom that created the amount of freedom from you know I downsized a whole lot in the process of moving careers and change careers SharePoint minimal guy you know I downsize from a house to look out the spare bedroom and the bus so anyway so I had some freedom and I like a man take a trip down to Mexico I did a garage sale to raise little more funds for that and took $176 with me and spent about seven weeks down to Mexico all around the Riviera Maya region from Eastham Harrison Cancún down to Paladino Carmen down to Tuolumne and back up just on that money just on that money hose on that money now I did have like I had a savings account and so I bought a one-way ticket after 82 bucks when I went down there and so I didn't buy a returning ticket back until late if you like several weeks into that trip you know but I had savings account for that plane ticket back but I just went with 100 times Excel is cash that's all I used them to be in a couple of jobs I was down there staying in hostels using couch surfing.com where people open up their doors to travelers all over the world need a place to stay you get in a pinch by you can get on really get on this website happen to someone there's always someone that will let you in a crash on there like a pallet on the floor or spare bedroom or the couch so couch surfing.com and hostiles is how I forward lot of that stuff friends how my gosh man I met people from all over the world make great friends there's a guy down there right now cello Fernandez and so he comes in a long line of fishermen down there that have specifically lived on Isola Harris Lisa Lemaire's is a tiny little island write up a can coach as beautiful as Bill urges is so prudent it's so great and so he come from a long line of fishermen there and so he was one of the guys that I used on couch surfing.com and he nags head it off buddies he taught himself English I playing American video games and watching American film so so that's how he learned English and so anyway so now he's got his own like little tour guide boat and that he takes people out on adventures for snorkeling is also shy well shark diver and so in June are no July July I'm hoping to go down there and catch up kitchen well sharks not catch them but hang out with them share in the waters down there yeah so cellos want to have great great friend I go down there and visit all the time now and then people from all over the world Italy Sweden Switzerland Argentina mean people like I met people we made these connections while brought their traveling role is Kenneth relaxing in that travel zone and travel spirit you know and so you meet people all on the way in all walks of life and so I people who think invited me to their homes all around the world after connecting with them while traveling to hey anytime you're in our part of the world come hang out so first what what what kind of a job for the 10 years of some of the jobs he had done oh so I have a background in bartending in the restaurant management sure well so there's a part of Eastham Harristown Hidalgo little bit more tourist but it's got a long line of like markets and restaurants in Cantina's and so I found myself bartending for one canteen and bar restaurant and then another when I was a José like that I could speak English and talk to the this English-speaking tourists so I would get people hey you know how to go are you from come on in drug food behind it yet so doing things like that and then for like one job we got is kind of like the the beginning of the digital marketing like homicide like trying to make money doing that you are doing this you just in the digital marketing just to get yourself out of the ghetto would say try give you this money money to go do hop on the bus and do this shift so you just went down there yeah so I was like I was doing a lot of blogging and blogging stuff like that trying to be like one of those like travel influencers if you will so yeah so that while I was down there in about fungi little tight and so there is a little spa company that Rado you know are like a massage company of those old list huts on the beach and so there want to grow their business and that we just ran into them like at a canteen or something like that and is working you bills on the website melena will pay you but you know so my friend Amy and I might my friend Amy who went who's on the crazy bus experience is crazy and Jesus referred she met me down to Mexico she had a week to spend so she came down to Mexico and so we helped build out this website for a little massage company and that was, the first in a little bit into digital marketing they were the first ones in their geographical area to have that I mean for their in their niche are like their spot on their their lair massage yes but you know there are like there were other restaurants that follow them actually fold them this there now massage envy became generally the West man yeah now but yet I was with another way that I made money doing that for little gigantic curiosity did you market to that were going to be potential tourists like say they they know the going to book travel to that region so now you're you're putting their website in front of those particular people rather than just the local right absolutely yeah and so that's I have a friend who's down there you know Sean Petty with everything Isola.com he is a formerly always a family member of mine but I wanted to help him out but also wanted experience of it so I knew that I had a huge group of friends and family here in Texas that need to discover the sum of Harrison so putting Sean on putting his other businesses on sharing experience on my know my branding and my trying to influence travelers and then hope in hopes of getting sponsorships and in other gigs at hotels and hospitals around the world and I was kind of like my hopes of doing all that that's that's were a lot of the why is it as to why did it but yeah I was trying to get people to come down can influence the Isola just really influence travel in general let's also because you are benefiting the island you were benefiting the people coming down the relearning your hope in the locals that isolate another that's great that's a very rewarding and fulfilling thing and absolutely said that's what you did foreclosure downtime like there man downtime was paddle boarding and kayaking and just hang out the hostiles and meeting new people share went die by mention the family from Argentina like they they scooped me up and they I just spent the whole day with him I met there so there were three siblings now there were four siblings four siblings I met them at a hostel called Polk not everybody's marriage got a good poke is one of the oldest and one of the largest hospitals in Central America so we hang out there having drinks and end up running into the brother the brother he was my age we start talking he owns a hostile down in Córdoba Argentina so he not hit it off and he introduced me to his sisters there on holiday with her father and there could their duck standoff like eight weeks or something like that they'd Artie been through like Central America central Mexico and were just traveling along we spent that night together like a in the morning meet us at the beach you can meet her dad so I went and met Cokie the dad gone cocoa cookie and he doesn't speculate speak a lick of English whatsoever was that's thing where is he staying at the time thinking that the hotel room at there like at this hotel room so they so they were saying hostile by choice they were hanging out at the hostel because there's a big open bar I will share Martha's a huge beach bar out there so people come to party there but in there's also like a lot of rooms and bedtime horses stay like it's one of the party spots you know of the island and so that's will remap it and that you know they all end up staying at their hotel there I'm not sure which one thereat but yet that's where he was hang out next morning I met him spent the day on the beach with them and then by the end of it they decide to invite me down to know the next couple stops which happen to be like Lida Carmen and Saloom and down so they just took took me with them Mike said hey come on we like you you want to travel with us and go down more Mexico like I looked at my you know check my wallet like it's sure let's get on the phones but I'm in a make it happen will see what comes of it and had a great it is what I noticed that sibling never finishes with food all just yeah they are super hospitable electric in that was that their culture really a note I didn't I don't know one of things I observed about their little family like anytime they had anything to drink anything like to eat is passed around every single member of the family unlike ladies like share with everybody you know I grew up with a brother and sister yelp family of five it is like think yourself man is my fear is that part of culture was cool go to the was actually my parents met my mother was my mother's Argentinian so one of the things that they do the cultures they have some pickled mop which is a T did they do that yes that is cool it's you have what's called a bumbling and then you put this mop it to you which is of teeth full of polyphenols and I think that's one of the reasons why a lot of the Argentinians at least traditionally that's what they would do but what they would do as you pour it in and you have this metal straw then you sipped the water out but then you pass it on to the next person okay everybody it's a community T that everybody sucks out of the same straw it's it's the culture of coming together around this one thing then also and they really filling my head yes yeah so you know and then there's also a lot of Argentinians will will go to Lisa Harris and so that's why I started seeing as I cannot talk to one guy actually I guy who ended up putting some dreadlocks in my hair mosquito it was as if he was his name but he always had one and he was like really cool intricate design I what you God you say the that bubble and so his is like really cool so off I approached him and found out all about it was a T and so yeah that that they in the chair they just like yeah you know you're here with us your family we share share everything with his particular time of day not that is, random from what I you know, like coffee time talk to you know it's kind of like centered around the that those dies to source really quick little story about Argentina my friend Russell Veronica called in his father died of ALS we do show talking about that about stem cells and all that help with that will Russ and I were invited down to Argentina when I was a medical student we didn't know what we're getting into was inviting us readily and we went down to WW out on one of sorrows and we show up and we have made no plans or anything family invited us there were there were patients universe Nebraska and so this is classic Russ we did and that will actually wear white coaches will wear like suits and is like Dallas to suit so we go in and then the residents came up to us they're like oh we have American med students and he goes to the chief resident is what we do it because I think were to go to a liver transplant like we do liver transplant to Nebraska redeployed Argentina to watch Russ puts his coat back on the hills tell them this is straight like exactly what he said tell them were here to evaluate them for an exchange program so experiments I tell you exit window guy shows up it all discarded just as HEPA boss about Philip about that and said let's have some fun and that was how the next two months what it was just like you just that one moment for us just what I love it I love that man that's a great that's usually the way to bond is to get them out there and shared so we shared it with the cool tradition yeah that also is great so you down you go down and need to travel with them a little bit further south then then how many weeks in our younger seven weeks day that was really early on I was pretty early I like my first couple weeks and there met them socially hard if you make friends on yet so like so part of the reason I ended up using couch surfing.com and in and really spend a lot of time in the hostiles was because I had a cousin that was down you know she used to live down there and shoot sublease or place out don't shoot she would simply sub lease her place out and come back to Texas to to work and then that like for like a week or 10 days and the rest of her time on Isola will she's like yeah look at this place and come crashing to come hang out so Michael replaced Dave's cousin. Well they get their wires crossed missed munication with management and the leasing people and so it turns out like if she ends up leaving to go back and stay in Texas for a month this time so check you how to place yourself and so my great and then like the day after she leaves gets back to Texas is like so I'm so sorry but there's been a mixup with management and they've booked out the air B&B year BRB or whatever it was her bucket out for the rest of time that you're there etc. like a couple days here in a couple days there so being like pushed out my my comfortable little cool spot is to be hanging out enough for couple months yeah end up having to be out try to figure it out like catchup.com hospital so yeah that's that's kinda how that happened but that was down there and it was logging the whole timely if we strata the following at this point absolutely like I did a couple of I did a couple of stories about what Hidalgo Avenue has to offer, like the kind of found that there's a flow there's a flow down there when you start hanging out the nightlife you know they they start off it at one place and go to another it is kind of like that's things close down and slow down you know there's comes flowing Sasha is not talked a lot about that and so just really quickly after a few these blogs and Dino taking pictures with it I got a pretty good following like out of nowhere it just kinda took off what health there was that my friend Sean with Lisa Harris.com he he shared it on his CP said one of my blogs on his Facebook page and so got some traction with that in like within a month or so I had like 750 subscribers like out of nowhere on my blog so so that's where I really started getting into photo journalism and blocking some really good background on you got very interesting past but now we've got about 45 seconds but now were to get into some really exciting stuff where you expanded everything now we go talk about the maps which is the what is map sample the multidisciplinary Association for psychedelic studies Got into That Just Said with All the New Research Coming out from Johns Hopkins I Kind of Ride a Hold in the YouTube about a Whole Lot of Cool Stuff through Paul Statements Dennis McKenna and Terrence McKenna and Really Got into The Effects of Psilocybin on the Brain This Is Amazing Because This Is Very Parallels What You Did When You Went into Mexico Basically on I Was Kinda Curious the People Probably Followed Your Blog Because They Wanted to Know about That and Then Engaged in Now You're Basically Just Functioning As a New Blog for a New Level of Terrorism Believe That the Last Half-Hour Here in Just a Moment Got an Old Car You Can Donate It Whether It's Running or Not to the United Breast Cancer Foundation and Save a Life They'll Even Come and Pick It up for Free The United Breast Cancer Foundation Has Saved Hundreds of Women's Lives through Their Free or Low-Cost Breast Screen Exams Now They Need Your Help The United Breast 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Nonprofits That Support Homeless Veterans and Off-Duty Firefighters and 50% to Individual Veterans and Firefighters in Need Nationwide Checkout Never Forgotten Apparel.com Use Promo Code Matt and ATT And Get 15% off Your Purchase So We Listen to Music That Comes off As Man Is Alleges That I This Is This Is Cooper Impromptu Dancer Hears Nothing Cooper Readably Nicotine the Story so We Would We Left Mexico Down from There for Seven Weeks Have Been Incredible Experience It Sounds to Me like Meeting New People and What I Was Hitting on the Bottom of the Hour Was That It Seems like People Probably Followed Your Blog Because You Were Engaging Them in Something That They Knew They Didn't Know Enough about What They Wanted to Explore And That Kinda Led to What You're Doing Right Now But a Different Kind of a Good Yeah Absolutely so with What the Way the Travel Effects in Our Conscious and Our Mind It Is It Such a Powerful Way It's a Scissors to Stripping of the Identity Really Your Fear in This Place Where You Don't Speak the Language You've Never Seen the Scenery before so Everything Is New Your Senses Are Heightened or Just Taking in All This Information Right so That's Fascinating to Me the Consciousness That at the Aspect of the Nature of Reality and How We All Know How I Would How It Works Together with Our Mind and so That Led Me into Reading More Articles about Consciousness and Things like That Which Led into the Expansion of Consciousness and Altered States And so And in That You Know Going in That Realm I Found Self-Love and Mushrooms in an LSD and DMT Psychedelics I the Knowledge of Them or You Just Started Dabbling I Started to Weld the Knowledge of Them the Knowledge and I Had a Little Bit of Previous Said Dabbling in My Early 20s with It Which Completely Changed A Lot Of Things in a Positive Way Some My First Experiences so with Having Those Experiences and Now Having The Knowledge behind It in the Studies in the Research That's Coming out Now Are Started 1994 Johns Hopkins I Started Just Absorbing All That Information That Content Online and I Found Paul Statements You Know Dennis McKenna Terrence McKenna and Just Kind of Is Also Going through You Know How I Talked Earlier about Want to Be out in Nature so Famous about Nature Lodges for Meditation Meditation Purposes and Just Kind of Health Reasons And Then I Started Noticing Mushrooms around Dino like A Lot A Lot More Than I Ever Really Realize You Can't Come into My My Awareness and so Then Every Time I Look around like Men There's Mushrooms in There Everywhere Then Is Some Different Kinds of Them Too Funny Because We Talked about That LLP That's like That's a Neurolinguistic Programming What Your Brain Opens up to You Will Notice Absolutely Absolutely I like Baby You Know People Play of This When My Good Start Friends Place around Us about Parking Spots Echoes of the Grocery Store He Likable He Has His Word That He Uses but He Does This Going to the Grocery Store and Just like For Open Parking Spots Close to the Store so We Don't Have To Walk Very Far but He Everything on Time like He Finds a Place Anyway so Once You're Aware Start to Show up in Your Reality and so I Searching Mushrooms Everywhere Started, Fallen around and Learn More about How They Spore and so You Know You You'll See Bill You Know in a Mature Little Group You See Your Evergreen Character That They Called Fairy Rings Right There There's a Strings of Mushrooms Because That's How They Spore and so I Really Got into It Only to Find More Mushrooms I Got Several like Books on Field Guide to Figure out Which Ones Are Which You Know Identifying the Species And in and Learning A Lot from Paul Statements on That You Know He's like a Leading Guy and Mushrooms Little While and Edible Mushrooms Any Kind like Whether Their College Is Full-Blown like My Call Just He's Got A Lot Of Great Stuff out There I Think He's Been on Joe Rogan Once or Twice to so You Know That's the Way She's Got A Lot Of Good Knowledge and in He's Got This Whole YouTube Channel As Well Anyway Suffered Lives Really Absorbing A Lot Of His Content Based on His His Love and Passion for Mushrooms Mycelium Kind of Bled over into Me Because I Found Less about Their Months so Much so I Started Emailing to Prints You Know like Taking This This Poor Print and Figuring out Okay As This Poisonous Is As Edible As His Face so What You Do so You Can Take the Caps of Mushrooms and yet Just so You Take the And You Can Lay down Some Foil or Some like Paper and Then But It like the Gills down You Know like That That the Top of the In the Gills down and Leave It There like over Night and You Can Remove the And Then Find out We and Stains a Certain Color like Orange Purple Brown and Based off This for Prints and What Color It Is You Know If It's like Edible Poisonous down Not Know That Your Reminding Me Something That I Completely Forgot and in Little Gainesville Are Boy Scout Troop or Our Cub Scout Troop Did That Yeah and It Was I Forgot All about That Said That Is Really Really Interesting the Other Couple Ways Identify Them That's One of the Main Ways to Do It but Also You Can Pick It up and If You Want a Finding of Psilocybin No Mushrooms Which Is the Magical Kind the Way That They Bruce When You Pick Them up You Can Pinch Their Stammer like and If They Bruise You Know That's the Day the Siletz Stilson Molecule and It Bruises Bluish Purplish and Tell You Know You've Got Something That's Magical and That a Quick Jerry Snoop Dogg So Unfortunately He Had a His Pig Dr. Holly I Can't Believe Scrip's New Pocky Hog Slip Are You Hello Miniature. His Primary RFP Snoop Dogg and Ended up Eating Left out a Death Right Yeah And I've Had Well Russ Lost His Dog to Do the Same Thing at Some Curious How Animals Have Some Sort of Defense On on That Play Fair That Pig Would Not Mean Just I Think Whenever You Have a Pig in Captivity Even If You're Keeping It As a Pet They're Going to Eat More There Going to Be Less Discerning in Terms of What They Choose to Eat I Read That since Then so It Just Saw Mushroom and Rather Than Try to Figure out If It Is Right or Not Things Went Have Any Foil They Imprint to Get Back There in the Lab and Studied a Little Bit in All Seriousness Is That Doesn't Happen in the Wild When I Get That like in Captivity We Probably Brought out Some of These Instincts but Do Animals Eat These Poisonous Mushrooms in the Well Usually It Is Very Rare That It Happens I You Know I Think It They Have They Know You Know They Know Something and They Whether It's the Smell of That That the Mushrooms Are Giving off or Something They Sense It Doesn't Happen in the Wild but Not Very Often That I'm Aware of Its Own Was Always a Domesticated Dog or Another Pet That Ends up Consuming the Toadstool of the Yeah Or Something Yeah Okay Is It Just I Think It's Colors I Will Sing with Him to See Mushrooms Everywhere That I Just Have Never Really Thought about Mushrooms Website This Can Have a Good Time of the Year You Know like What Went with the Rain You Know It's Hot for Several Days and They Will Get Some Rain and the Listings of Pop up Everywhere so This Is a Good Time Here and Also in That Late September Is Also Great Great Tummy Year-Round Here in Texas to Find Mushrooms of Any Kind What You Doing This Research in Your Reading What Led to You to Say Okay There's More to It Then Me Just I Doing Identifying and And Dad However Your Your Mapping Yeah I Know You Didn't Go into Becoming for My Colleges but Obviously Were Drawn to Those Who Are What What Took You to That That Space and What You Want to Application It Will Just It Was so Fascinating to Find out What Mycelium Does Your Mycelium Eye Which Is the Organism That Fruits and Mushroom What You See with Mushrooms Is Just the Fruiting of You Know of the Organism Much like the Apple Is the Tree the Trees Organism the Fruit Mycelium Is the Fungus Is the Organism That Princes Mushrooms so Mycelium Access Is like Underground Network Almost like You Know a Fast Internet System for the Plant Kingdom and so There Are Signals Being Passed across This Mycelium Minute Vertebrate Writ Really Resembles like Brain and Neural Pathways As Well and so Just Finding out That There They Are Communicating and Protecting Each Other EL This Step I'd Had I Did Not Notice on the Picture Yeah Where It Really Shows His Vast Network underneath the Ground Yes Absolutely Yes after the Soil like You Know That It's All through the Soil and so They Are They Are Communicating the Plants Are Communicate and through Mycelium You and Always See Other Mushrooms and in My Ceiling Are Communicating in This Vast Network and so They're Protecting Their Warning off You Know Other What Are Plants That Could Be Encroaching or Animals or Whatever but It's a Sickness It's Open to Learning about That and What It's Doing and Then Paul Statements Did an Experiment With Toxic Waste Today Is like Bunch of Toxic Waste in Their This Issue Came up Exactly Where Was Busy like a Building or Industrial Something That Is Big Pile of like Waste in Trash and It Was Toxic and so What He Did Was He Fermented and in Place Some of the Spores of This Specific Type of Mushroom and It Grew like Crazy and It Decomposed This Toxic Waste in This Trash and Ate It All up so Not Only like You Know That You Have These Mushrooms That Are Good to Eat Good for Us but You Have These Mushrooms That Are Decomposing the Waste and Then in the Toxic Stuff That We Can Hardly Get Rid of These Mushrooms Are Eating It Bring It down Back to Organic Matter Yeah I Will Think It Was That Long Ago You Mentioned to Me That They're Looking to Basically Take Plastics That We Can't Recycle And Then You Put Them into and They They They Function As Fungus Compost Pile Scraps Absolutely Isolated They Just Turn They Returned to the Earth the Way That We Need to Start to Break down Plaster the Start to Discover That They Can Break down Plastic It Really Is Hard Stuff That You Think Man That's Afghanistan Landfill Forever but Mushrooms Are Likes Showing to Decompose Them If They Were Able to Do Something or Discover Some of That Movement Whenever They Thought Their Predicting of How Long a Plastic Grocery Bag Would Last and Landfill and It Says They Started Doing Others Soil Sampling There Doing These Long Cores Are Pulling It out Is Are Discovering That Where They Knew Plastic Bags and Plastic Material Were They Been Broken down into Not Plastic Try to Figure out What It Happened And There Happened to Be Fungus And Most Related to Mycelium in Various Types of Motions That It Helped Break down Absolute Facet I Had No Idea World of Mushrooms Are Just so Fascinating and There They Paul Same It's Really Things That Mushrooms Are Going to Help Solve A Lot Of the Problems Are Gone Right Now with Tech Waste and All Best in A Lot Of Things Eight Health and the Environment I Just so It Is Best Opportunity That Measured Your Start to Show and Prove That Other Capable of so Many Things I've the Feeling That When Chef Patrick Hears This Is like Of Course Is That He's a Chef He Has His Own Show Is I Was There Too Much of What We Do Portobello What Is He to Be No Idea That the Southern Whole World Exist Absolutely and Select Learning about All That and Is Becoming Fascinated with How It Works in Nature like It's Its Purpose in Nature I Thought Well You Know There Has To Be a Purpose Right That It Had to Psilocybin and We Have Psilocybin Receptors in Our Own Brain You Know in Our Brains so the Nature You Know It's a Yellow Hand-To-Hand so I Was like This Got Me Something Here Right so Let's Figure out a Bit More about the Psychedelic Side in the Silicide inside What That Dozen Experiences That That You Know That's Going on There Is That Is That to Curiosity Would Lead You to Mass Yes Absolutely Yes so That's Exactly What Led Me to Maps Because Their Research You Know Starting in 1994 and I Wasn't There Research I'm Sorry but the Research It Started in 1994 at Johns Hopkins University Just There Was so Many Profound Learnings from That Experiment and Then the Patients Going on to Have You Know Wade like Almost No Depression about I Think 76 of Them They Check Back about a Year Later and Anxiety Depression Is Almost Nonexistent And Then in about 80 Five or 86% of Those Patients Said That Was the Most Profound and Meaningful Experiences of Our Life One of the Most Profound Expresses of Her Life so Learning a Bit about That And in Discount What Was Going on There Led Me to Discovering the Maps Organization Multi-This Binary Association for Psychedelic Studies and They Are Raising Money They Are Nonprofit to Continue the Funding of Psychedelics's Position That Tim Ferris Bold or He Pledged $1 Million I Think so I Think to Embarrassed It Didn't Jason Silva Is a Big Advocate for Him to Be Online and If He Has No Ears but He's He's a Really Big Advocate so If You Want to Learn More about like What They Do What They're Doing It with Maps You Can You Know Follow Jason Silva and I Am Not Sure Much about in Paris but He Might ALL the Podcasts That I Will Commit to Donate $1 Million This Year To This Research but It Seems like This Would Be the What Do It] Is Site at Me Because There's a Bit of the Forefront of It Was Founded in 1986 and They Been Really Just Kind of Pushing Forward with This Research for All These Years and They There Right Now They're Doing MDMA Studies and Are Having Huge Success with That in Patients with PTSD You Know like Veterans and Whatnot and Select There in Phase 3 Trials Right Now and It's Will Probably Look like It's Going to Be past for Therapeutic Use Very Soon Just like That at This Morning Marie Actually Brought up If I Knew If They Had Made Any Movement in That Area and We Just Happen to Google and You're Exactly Right That Happens to Be Very Recent Headlines with Her Trying to Be Assigned the Scheduling of MDMA so That He Moved to to Research Specifically for PTSD and Depression Molecule in Ecstasy for S It's Really Interesting Also That He That You're Talking about What Mass Is Doing to Fund Research Because I Believe and I Could Be Mistaken I Believe Have After Institute Where Dennis McKenna Works Founded They Do A Lot Of Research Specifically around Psilocybin Usually They Do a Little Bit at the Other Stuff As Well but Most Know Lucila Sabin and We Were Talking of His Earlier Whenever You Talked with Dennis He Illustrated They Get a Long-Term Running Study Were There Still over 91% Success Rate Of Curing People of Their Addiction to Smoking So You Know This Is Also Excited to Bring You on Is That You Don't Come in with This PhD in This Agenda You Just Found This Journey And You Just Discovered This and Now You're Impassioned to Share It to to Voice This over Anybody Please Subscribe Share in Anybody That Struggles with Addiction Smoking Alcohol Drugs Opioids or If You Battle Anxiety or Depression There's Hope I Really Think That Word Will Be Able to Use These in a Controlled Environment and Make a Joint Enormous Difference Yeah Question Absolutely That's What It's All You Know That's What All Coming down to and so the Decriminalization of Psilocybin Mushrooms and Magic Mushrooms in the Denver Area and Denver and Then in Oakland Also Shortly after Denver Oakland California Decriminalize Mushrooms to so People Start to Become Aware and and Realize That You Know It's Not As You Know Seery We Shouldn't Focus You Know like the Policing of It But Also Is More More Research Comes out You Know That the Positive Health Benefits That Come along with These but These Medicines That I like to Call the Medicines Yet Did You Ever Ask One of the Things That I Listen to a Ted Talk and They Were Describing That It's One of the Few Times That You Can Be Most People Describe a Positive Reaction As a Self the First Time They Became Self Aware Is It's Almost Impossible for Egos To Let Us Dissociate Look at Us in a Very Self-Aware Kind of Situation Once You Can Do That Then You're Able to This Is What Some People Theorize That Then You're Able to Control the Thoughts Easier Because You Seen Yourself In a Different Way and You like Little I'm Actually in Control A Lot Of Times When You Have Anxiety and Depression Feel That You're at the Mercy of This Of These Mental Health Issues and Did You Have It Do You Ever Do It a High Dose and Find the Self-Awareness Aspect of It Absolutely Yeah I've Had Several Experiences in Them so so Terrence and Terrence McKenna Talked about If You Going to Do It You Take the Risk of Doing It You Know Don't You This Is It Something You Do What We Know What the Guys and Gals like Hanging out Going to Parties and Going to the Beach or Whatever It Is like a Recreational Fun Type Thing This Is a Therapeutic Meditative Minute You Know Medicine so Do It by Yourself In the Dark You Know Close Your Eyes and Know No Exterior's Stimulation Going on and so That's the Way That I Chose to Do It by Following You Know so Also You Guys Know Terrence McKenna Is Distant Dennis Brother Brother) so So I He Buys A Lot I Saw A Lot Of His Content and so I Wanted to Do It. This Was Terrence's Gonna Say I'm in It Give It The Test and Experiment so Have Had Several Those Experiences Where I Myself You Learn so Much about Yourself That's What Comes to the Forefront As Your Subconscious You Talk about Me in Our Egos You Know I Got to Work Constantly Were Living off of and Living through Most of the Time Right but Then We Had These Experiences in Our Subconscious What What's Going on under the Surface Comes to the Surface and so You You Really Get to Sit with It and See What's Going on Internally and like You Said Remove Yourself From This from It's a New Perspective Right and so You Do A Lot Of Self Discovery Self Journeying and You Come Away from It Totally like It's Also the Cognitive Cleansing As Well of Cleansing Rate Term Yeah and That and That's What Happened to Know That That's What They're There Saying Happens Because You Know the Brain Lights up You Using All in Different Parts of the Brain Your Ear Dealing Your You're Dealing with Stuff That You've Maybe Been Suppressing You Know That Come out and It Could Come out in a Challenging Experience You Know What People Call Bad Trips Whatever You Know That Could Come out If You Don't Allow It but If You Sit in You Allow Yourself to Deal with What's Coming up and Go through That Experience and Go through That Trip You in You Just Kind of Surrender to That Moment It Passes and You Learn Something about Yourself People the That Are Very Skilled in Meditation And If They Really Get What They Can Do This They Will Experience Something Very Similar If You Go through Very This Just and Then I Remember Reading That They've Done like Functional MRIs on People Where They Can Look and People That Are Very Skilled at Meditation the Brain Lights up in a Very Similar Way with Somebody so It's Almost like Fast Forwarding Yourself to an Area Where You Can Achieve That without 10 Years of Therapeutic Meditative Exercises and Absolutely Yeah Yeah I've Seen Those Graphs in Those Charts and of the Brain and It's That Easy Gary Zaki Right That's It It Said Instead of Meditating In a Cave for 80 Years It Has Some Good News Just like I Have Done It like 20 Years Old and Likes of Drug Everybody You Have Gone There so No Longer Angry at My Father There Is a Friend of Ours Hollis Who Has Think Either Two or Three Times Signed up for It's a Silent Retreat And It Said a Minimum of 12 Days and There's a Protocol Where You Do Not Do Any Talking You Try to Avoid Complete High-Tech Eye Contact for a Solid 12 Days and I Believe That He Said He's Got Experience with Various Psychedelics As Well and Very Reflective Fashion Trying to Find Your Policy Needs Very Very Deep Thinker Super Deep Thinker Supersmart Just like One of These Really Were Successful People but Self-Aware and He Says That the Sign That This Repeat That This Schedule Is Meditation Meditation Meditation Meditation Food Mild Exercises but Meditation and That It's Outside of That Level of Reflection Back upon Himself and What He Wants Out Of Life and Is a Very Calm Calling Presence Is Hollis and He Says Either That It's It's Basically Mushrooms the Yeah The Closest Thing That I Can Come to Something like This Is What I Went to a Very Tiny Small Religious College Was a Lutheran Place Called My Mom Taught Them so What Fruit and Super Tardy A Business Professor of My Do the Whole Religion Thing Is the Reason Why It Was Interesting Was Hosting a Guided Unity and Theory of Meditation Were You Would Guide You through the Was a Big Proponent of It and so I Was like One of the Only Science Students That Showed up in Those Public 60 People in the First Night The Three Hours Long the Next Night It Was like 20 People like That It Was like for like Four of Us That It Did for like Weeks and Weeks and It Was You It's a Stepwise Process Metric Now I Understand Why True Meditation Because You Have To Be Ready to Accept His Skills and What Happened Is That a Couple People Would like Breakup Bawling and Run Out Of the Root And I Will Talk to Them Later and the like Oh My God I I Had to Deal with My Abuse and Uncle Sexually Abuse Me or Whatever and It Just Came And Just Right in the Face And That's That's Exactly What You're Talking about We Have Stuff That Were Trying to Suppress Runaway from When He Turned and Looked at It Then You Can Gain Control of Apps Easier Said Than Done Area Takes Work It Is Practice That's Want to Call It Practicing Meditation into Practice and Now I Started off Doing like Six Minutes You Know to Sit underneath the Tree Just to Get outside and Sit Archery in the Start of Six Minutes and Then Work My Way up to Longer but It's a Practice It's Difficult but so so Cooper Personally like Me the Discounted Note. I've Got A Lot Of Issues so I Was Just Kind of like Jump It All in OT Was Thrown from Hiawassee Maybe Some IPO Day and Have a Little LSD Some MDMA and Then Just Finish That off with the Boat with It Decent Skullcap Do So That's Day Today Right Yeah Is No but They Do They I Remember Listening to Some Podcast and Crisscross Her Where She Had a Doctor on Discussing This Where He Went to a Retreat in New Mexico Where They Did a Guided Suicide and Experience You Have People That If You Start to Go into a Bad Place They Walk You Out Of It Absolutely yet and so There Are Several Large Network of under Ground Guides out There to Help People with These Journeys Because They They Are so Passionate about the Health Involved in and Just the Results That They See the Day They Take That Risk but Their Underground and There Is a Network of These Guys out There but That's You Absolutely Unless You Are No Well Versed in Meditation for Psychedelics You Want to Find a Guide on It so That the Safest Way to Do It Find out I Don't Know How to Do It Exactly Have Never Found a Guide I Was Just Kind of Done My Thing but That Did like I Said Earlier This Isn't like a Party Drug These Are These Are Something That's Recreational You Should Go out and Party on This Is Something That You It's like It's Therapy You Know Its Inner Work It's It's Dealing with the Dino Some of the Dark Stuff Right It's It's Dealing with That and Facing It so That You Can Move on and Have a Better Quality of Life These Guides Help Through That Process You're Going through in Their Kind of Talking You Guiding You through Your Having Your Own Experience If Things Come up You're Able to Can I Go into This Guide and the Guide Is There to Listen to Hold Hold Space and to Navigate Help You Navigate Your Own Journey through That so If There It's Fascinating like That You Brought up the Fact He Said the You You Kind of Educated Yourself and How You Have Maintained Your Journey and It's Obvious That You Taking the Serious Tone of You Want It for the Benefits of the Self Reflection in the Therapy and Something That's Really Popular Here Recently We've Had Patients Who Talk about in the Coming for the Kaleidoscope to the GDS's Have You Ever Heard of Micro Dosing and It Was Something That We Brought up with the Dennis McKenna and He Said That He's Not Necessarily Sold on the Advent of Just Micro Dosing That If You Don't Crossed the Threshold of Having the Deep Experience That Actually the Micro Dosing It's Is Simply Just Not Beneficial over Time Is That Something That You Run across As Well Yeah So I Think That There Are There Are Several Benefits to Micro-Dosing There Are You Get the Medicinal Qualities of Micro Dosages Was a Micro Dressing Is Taking a You Know Smaller Smaller Dosage You'll Probably around like Anywhere from The 10th 10th of a Grammar Are Half of the Grand Looks Really Small Doses of These Mushrooms What Were LSD Just Doing Tiny Doses and They Rather Than Taking a Full-Blown like Large Dose to Rehab the Spiritual or Psychedelic Experiences so Micro Dosing Is Just a Way to Get the Benefits You Know of the Medicine without Having to Go and like Not Be Able to Talk to Anybody for Six or Seven Hours Chevy Shut up and Away but My Producing It I Think That There Are Benefits to Taking a Smaller Doses Just Because There Are like Dark Nero Regenerative Aspects and Qualities till Sieben and Mushrooms so I Think That You Can Get Benefits from Them but I Think As Far As The Therapeutic You Know the True Therapy I Think I Agree with Dennis McCann on That You Have To past That Threshold You Have To Go on That Journey You Have To Go There yet He Was All about That He Just Basically Said Micro Dozers Have a Key Bout of Two Though Is That the Nature Nature Once Again Wins and That Is That There's There's Nothing Inherently Wrong with Occasional LSD to Get to This Point However Psilocybin and Solicitor Not Shown to Have the Possible Heart Effects That Long-Term Use and Exposure LSD Can Produce so Then Is Anybody Much More Experience Than He and His Brother and I Believe It Is but His Mother Passed Several Years Ago but All Terms Yeah, Probably the 2001 Only along That I Think 2001 He Passed Away and Does That That Exposure Though Long-Term Was Still 70 Still Not Shown That There Is Any Long-Term Detriment to Its Exposure so There There's There's Ways to Wait Things out in Mother Nature Always Seems to Know the Way We Say This All the Time to Prove the Mother Nature Seems to Always Do Things Better Drug Companies Try and Isolate One Little Aspect of an Seo Would Be Able to Get a Patent on This Is That the Approval Now This Is Going to Be This in There to Try to Do It Was Old Silent Turn to Try to Something like That Right Now Look at the Treatments That Are Going on for Depression to Realize That Depression Alone Is Such a Burden On That Organism That We Started the Show with Which Is the Healthcare Burden Depression Leads to so Many Things If We Could Fix That One Thing in My Crew in My Lifetime If We Could Do Something to Help That CBD BPC Wanted to Seven Silicide and Whatever Game Church Absolutely Death Well Cooper's Working People Finding out You Can Find Me on Social Media and Facebook Group Read Our EAD I'm on Instagram As Well Cooper__Read Re: 80 Indicator Working As a You Know a Marketing Director and Concentrator for a Real Estate Agent out There so I Get to Go Fly Drones Ran Create Content That Is around That so That That's What I'm Doing What Is a Weekly Guide Well Yeah What's up How Much Time You Have Today Are so 14 to Get Your Project Thank You so Much for Tinian like and Share like and Share Go to Get Your Project.com to Let Us Know That You Done That Can Rachel This Is the Only 24 Hour Take Anywhere Platforms Dedicated to Food and Fun We're Spoony By Bundling Home and Auto Progressive Filing by Ring Send My Condolences This Errors Situations White Make It Right Connect to Care Whenever You Needed Like Video Chatting with the Doctor Right from Your Phone So I Don't Need Stitches Thank You United Healthcare Health Plan Benefits May Vary
Leif Harrison has entered the world of the Hemp business after a multi-varied work experience in both high-level corporate business and post US Navy career. Born in AZ, raised in OH, Leif was a scholarship competitive sailor for the US Naval Academy. He is a trained parachutist, and tells of his religious calling to embark upon a 40 day fast.
Incredible show about resolve and calling, check it out!
And now I thought from Geico motorcycle it took 15 minutes to take a spirit animal quiz online please be the cheetah please be the cheetah and learn your animal isn't the cheetah but before less appealing blog fish come on let insult to injury you could've use those 15 blood fish minutes to switch your motorcycle insurance to Geico Geico 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on motorcycle insurance hello listeners out there it's a gut check project here with your host Dr. Ken Brown I'm Eric Rager and a course I got check project you check your egos at the door and nothing's off the table this is episode number 13 Doug Brown with that number 13 I miss that music bandwidth we actually had to travel little bits we missed last week we did a rerun on that one but I love that music and get my little metal groove I'll never hit him like a word and have some fun today yeah you know it's it you remind me of that you say you miss at music the music that I remembered when I was younger on Thursdays was cost show but were not going to be putting anything anybody's drinks so just mean you great way to open the show will will be, oh boy you will about sweaters anymore is it stepping out about sweaters so let's let's touch on that last week we've been trying for two and half years to you to get to the Institute functional medicine shall and this year we got our first chance to be a part of it I would say it right being Trond Teal trying to and that we were joined by Mike Logsdon and I think the three of us unanimously decided that not only was a great exposure for trying to heal we connected with people that have been using arch on teal for a long time and on top of that I think that we found a lot of new fans who just basically wanted new explanation on how much until could fit into their practice they love the fact it was less expensive was all natural solution for bloating and a course in Canada we can say IBS and Joseph say afterwards a I BSA but not BSC and obviously is IDSA but it was what you think I thought that the exposure to that level of really involved in caring practitioner was cute well so we the I FM this was the international IFN meeting we been trying to get in there for a long time what I learned from that was holy cow there are a lot of very smart doctors who are now adopting this functional approach because the system that we have right now are we just treat diseases it's breaking the bank lately it is a broken system that needs to feed on itself so these are a group of doctors that have flown in from all over the world and there are trying to help people at the base level so that we don't have to get to a point where they're being prescribed opioids or whether being prescribed this were to do this thing and so have a booth there without trying to and then have all these doctors that already knew about us was such a cool experience speaking of all of those positions that were there think about some of the other people that were there talking about their new delivery systems or for instance Carolyn Krishnan and just so everyone knows we can do a quick reset writ right here if you don't mind last week we did have shell so because we were on the road we didn't have the ability to do remote show because we were doing a completely different set up that being said Ron Krishnan of mega spore or actually it's like bio lads the makers of the megastore is a fantastic probiotic and we ended up doing a recording which will be released later this month of thus interviewing with Charon those kinds of innovative minds that's what's all over the IFN it's new ways to deliver health and wellness in a savings to the patient using in most cases natural approaches and they work they have science that backs it up is really super exciting that was so cool so first of all thank you get on yeah for taking us to have future results with amazing Peruvian Asian fusion restaurant and we just had a blast we did and I love being around like-minded people and entrepreneur who's a scientist she's a microbiologist in his training when he came to the house we did the podcast he kicked some crazy knowledge absolutely phenomenal as to why you should be using a spore based probiotic and not a traditional probiotic based on plausible science replicated in the lab that is what is amazing she is all about will that makes sense let's test he is a researcher first entrepreneur second and that's kind of the model we have outrun to you is because really we've got some science to back it and that's why we developed it and that's why think were gonna be able to possibly work together to really help a lot of people using the combination of the two dad hates he says he's pretty amazing in the way that he talks about science it's like he's talking about a friend oh he's just I mean he describes the you have to listen to this episode because it's so into it that it's so cool but we come from bacteria make no mistake about it yet and we have lost sight of that and we have developed a world that kills what he calls the whole mobile which is a term of never heard is a real rain forest when you take out the canopy things die and we have systematically been destroying our own God given reason why were here which is our micro bio and were all about the microbe I'm also talking about polyphenols talk about probiotics protecting Mike by Marissa said he just came out I just saw that yesterday where they were looking at how the micro biome affects aging if you have a healthy micro biome is an anti-aging situation then and it set in really when you start digging into the science that your Acheron and now is butchering his name so Chiron uses to back up where why spore-based probiotics are not only more efficacious but actually more natural and then you begin to look at how the micro biome itself benefits from having a spore base probiotic make its way to the: it's it really the mysteries no longer mystery it makes sense on why you need to care for that for your body and your you're basically a vehicle for bacteria and if you're keeping them healthy and happy you can be healthy and happy it's the signals we talked about what we've always talked on the bottom of this we talked a few episodes ago were in TCU they did the study with injected people would like the polysaccharides and they show that the new information created impulse problems the lead to anxiety all kinds of stuff please brought up LPS that's exactly what he talked about was a better marker remember that instead of just using C-reactive protein and other markers to find true long long-term information in order to find out if you could heal the gut LPS was a better marker and you could speak to distant is that something that current practitioners through traditional medicine are using no traditional medicine does not look at LPS I do have a science article today were really touching a little bit Because when we talked about the leaky got leading to leaky brain right well I got really cool article just published this month 2000 19 June 2019 will real look at how CBD and a cannabinoid like Endo cannabinoid called PEA actually some really cool science on that and that's what we always come back to bridging the gap or to trying take some science and bring it over here John was talking about that the whole time because this doesn't make sense why people are doing this with probiotics when we should be doing this because this makes a lot more sense we want to ruin that episode because I think it is one of the coolest funny nerdy episodes were we get way into it because just like you talk about he talks about the spores like there is little baby that he loves those things yet he does and you're right we don't want it we don't want to spoil that episode because we will release it here in a couple weeks however today on today's episode we have an incredible guest who's got a great journey and his story on how he got to where he is today that's Lafe Harrison now currently he is an executive for director of operations for licks and all and we know quite well from that but he's got so much more depth than just somebody who who lucked into being in a frontier industry in fact one of the coolest things about Lafe and the fact that he's in the hemp industry is this is a man who has a military service in the Naval Academy was in Annapolis he was trained by the Army on becoming a parachutist he's got tactical training not only in the Navy but as a civilian he worked at Boeing am I gonna ruin his whole biography will let him do it but the man has got lots of exposure from the military from a large corporate structure and now working in literally the wild West of a very legitimate industry which needs legitimacy absolutely and that's one of the reasons why we have teamed up with election all because I really think that they are just a step above everybody else we've had Joy Beckerman on that they brought on and she is a procedure and policy expert Christmas song with the marketing he's been involved in that a listen to those two episodes were to have Dr. Paul Blair onward and talk about the science PTSD and all that what we have with Lafe is this business background really smart guy coming from incredible background to say no you need to legitimize this because this is real it's not going away and people need this we talk about healthcare dollars we talk about functional medicine CBD is not going away and we just need legitimate companies producing great products without question so stay tuned life will join us in the next half hour and well let's see here real quick paying the bills go to love my tummy.com if you weren't at the IFN conference and you would like to learn a little bit more about our 2011 my tummy.com/spoony use code spinning say some money and you'll see everything that Mike Ken and I talked about bollard in San Antonio that I have him and we will definitely be back next year that was a fantastic get to that was really cool but seriously I want everyone to commit to this please go to that website support everyone because the supports spooning the supports functional medicine supports upfront Hill which were also doing research were teaming up with the board meeting all kinds of stuff so love my Tommy.com/spoony SP 00 NY last thing forgetting to Dr. King's corners going to be we keep getting responses of people who have now decided to subscribe to iTunes I do want to remind everyone you can also subscribe to gut check project on YouTube where you can enter again and of course if you subscribe screenshot that you have subscribed go ahead and leave its review and in July we will be awarding at least five winners a free month supply of arch on teal as well as KB MD CBD of your choosing either natural or Senate flavor and death funny story about that real quick before I finish out how you can enter and that is we have a friend whose son is he was a bull rider suffered a brain injury and has seizures now so this is completely anecdotal I don't want to make a huge claim here but however is been struggling on what's the correct diet recipe for myself not have these issues has a neurologist that he sees at Wichita Falls and he recently began using KB MD CBD just last night that mom that dad that young man let me know that he doesn't go anywhere without his KB MD CBD now and he doesn't have nearly the exacerbations of his seizure activity absolute love that loving source like that these are real this is not a subjective oh I filled out better this is not a placebo effect is somebody that has objective data showing that they have improvement in something not a disease claim ever get so scared about saying that but what we did learn from note get on is that you can say what it helps but not the disease so if we can decrease neural impulsivity which leads to a seizure sure that's that's really the marker that we can do and that's kind of science we need to get out there absolutely so just to continue if you want to win your own free trying to link a B&B CVD subscribe screenshot share write review send a notification to us that you've done that@kbmdhealth.com or gut check project.com just go under connect you'll see the drop-down menu can let us know that you have subscribed and you will be entered and then you can be a winner that's it everyone wins that's everyone wins so Dr. Brown going on not much so you know we talked about the IFN this really cool I have not been sick to years and years and years and I finally got like my first cold/I don't know what it was bad in years and it's fun so I did not go during the proliferative stage of the virus I made sure that I secluded myself forcing happened on a Friday and I could, hide and let that go but then come to develop the bronchitis afterwards and had to go to a show right when you talk so Nate spurred recipe that we were in beautiful San Antonio fry FM over near it was held at the JW Marriott great little air B&B we stayed out that was cool like right off property so that was me that was nice you can schedule the wrong day so little funny story to the sum of what you tell it because I'm a little embarrassed so I'll throw it back to you you can describe what happened so basically can you tell me that Eric I'll meet you down there I'm flying to your driving or taking equipment down and I did it when checked in and then I went to the location where the home was forced to stay and I rang the proprietor and just as you said I should she's incredibly friendly and she said hey how you doing as I can find to this is Eric reinstate your house he said yeah yeah can't wait see you tomorrow and I I will that's cool because I'm here today and she couldn't of been more accommodating she laughed she got everything ready within an hour home was beautiful so we had that we had a great stay but she was able scramble around everything up and running if you've never done a home share things like Uber I mean the RBL air B&B are both super easy to use and huge house very comfortable and not really expensive for is using for to consider the Princeton hotels under them no because we were correct eventually got you a few people be you and Mike it was pretty funny because that's what happens when you've got two people that are busy doing a bunch of other things and just sort of all you have to put the place yes okay doubled up on you move on and so it probably would be better if we just had somebody to be handling that kind of stuff for so yeah now it's okay if the Internet well out turned out perfect and so we went to beautiful San Antonio like I said Johnson was also a great dinner we had a wonderful time that's a joy to my training so I'm I'm very fond of Sen. that's where I met my wife that's all that stuff so going doctors always find a lot of people there but that was a great great conference I was awesome while I was there quick update on the family Carla actually had a tennis tournament and she killed it in Dallas in the Dallas area she won the whole thing so she started to really hit stride right now really proud of her and you know she's realizing that there's a lot of both physical skill but you in tennis you really have to put the mental with it because Rother alone and she's really hit your group right now and band were to be having some national tournaments coming up with both kids are now playing on the national level so I'm very proud of Carl she did awesome Lucas appears we go through a growth spurt because he did actually nothing just slept the night I don't blame you Lucas and good Alcala network so and then of course myself to him with cold and though you know Lloyd is basically has to make sure the kids get started so how about you guys not everything on our home front is great breeze business sat with her wellness Center continues to grow and Doug Gage had day 17 had his wisdom teeth taken out I guess it was that you have days ago and he's recovering but he's doing well maybe we expect good things I think it will be back to his normal self by about a day or two and then nab Mac we had at several so yard turn in early summer that need new sod around town around Decatur so Mac went out after basketball practice on its was Monday and Tuesday and basically he's visit by he's in a new entrepreneur is nice walking home with 200 bucks a day throwing sod saw death that is not easy I did that when I got my first home in San Antonio so he's pretty pumped about then the little change in his pocket and dad not enough time to spend it's that's the best way to do it and for 15-year-old it said it's not too bad there that's awesome that's awesome now that's it that lets you like the removing all Midsummer that's cool we quick shout out to Melanie Avalon and Jen Stevens because I did the intermittent fasting podcast again love going on their show had a great time talk about all kinds of stuff I want things that we did hit on which I actually had a little research was the carnivore diet told him about it well recordable diet it's basically meet nominate me all right and while doing some homework on that you actually pointed to Jordan Peterson out to me right you how did you find Jordan Peterson and the work he was doing originally actually it is this attribute to gauge gauge is a big he just spends his time reading about different things all the time and he finds Jordan Peterson to be somewhat interesting just as a personality himself just so happens that Jordan and his daughter I believe suffer from his daughter deftly suffers from some autoimmune issues that they should be the most outspoken person with this correct Michaela right at sadly that's her name and so she and Jordan both had at least some type of autoimmune issues they both reset decided to go and try to carnivore dad had been reading about it and according to them they don't have those issues anymore and I think he's 18 months into it or something like that it's around that time on I can't member exactly but I have heard his interview on Joe Rogan and a few other different podcasts where but Rogan is 16 at the most disease has the longest format and it's really interesting to hear someone make that transition I love vegetables I love fruit so I don't know if the carnivore diet is for me did you see the Joe Rogan Sean Baker one the orthopedic surgeon that Stu the carnivore died as well now I know he's quite outspoken also not really on Instagram much but I've seen that he's pretty prolific and basically showing that he likes meat he likes meet similar thing where he went his orthopedic surgeon really smart guy is doing strictly meat is eaten quite a bit of meat so I have my first patient we had a long talk and we tried a bunch of different diets still struggle with some stuff and so I put them on the cardboard I've lost two weeks he feels good really yet so my knee-jerk reaction would be no way like everybody else like every other diet that's out there is a traditional doctor you look at this and you go want what Haley oh no go oh well that's kind of interesting sure OT don't know now Tito I tried you know I'm mostly pale Leo tried Tito I'd I it's difficult for me to say on what I do and we talk about this on the podcast so that comes out next Monday I believe all IFP yeah yeah intermittent fasting contest that she generally set next Monday which are all this but the problem is that a lot of people do like I do his dirty Quito you think your keto in the new country and ruin everything and I cannot screw your base are screwed some things up doing that so we look these different diets will the initial reaction is oh the carnivore diet that's crazy needs bad apples meet your: the John Wayne died with 20 pounds beautiful whatever clearly untrue and there are certain primal lineage people that really survive purely on meet during certain times of the Inuit Eskimos for instance trying to not eating vegetables now it's just strictly meat and then Sean Baker had some examples of some tribes in Africa that really only have meat and they are extremely healthy so I'm looking more into it not succumb only wants to talk about it so we got weird into that little bit that's first time I love going on podcast like that reps do little homework I like to listing every single week we trying to little homework we try and bring everybody up to speed and supercharge a little bit better at something and that's just another example looking into it I got my first patient experience with let's see what happens if you try the carnivore diet out there in your listeners GCP or you know someone has to choose an email I'm really curious to see what it's like in and what that transition is like and how do you feel how long did you do it what is it like it when we talked at Quito diet and doing dirty Quito I can certainly relate and I didn't realize I was relating in the same way out after I come avoiding carbs and avoiding sugars but something that I wasn't taken into account was was offsetting some of that by consuming probably more protein and a should have and you could probably speak this if you over consume the protein in terms the protein ratio to the fat body can actually just go through gluconeogenesis and basically use the protein turning circle and glucose he can for yourself out of Quito itself right yet it sounds sounds counterintuitive but Dr. Sean Baker extra possible disease is a power lifter hold couple records at his age group and he got arguments with other doctors were they said no you and enough glycogen in the muscle to do this with the fact you write on the protein the amino acids and then you for glycogen in the muscles that's fuel so people do Quito but they take to too much protein in and then you actually stored glycogen in your liver and your muscles and then when you work in fact you when you and I were fasting we did a little experiment with you where we were actually working in between patient oh yeah and we did the we have a keno mojo we we checked your ketones right Cheetos were up blood glucose was rewriting yet again 958 some around there and I'm okay let's try something once you do a bunch of squats that and what happened I think to check the glucose again was it 10 minutes later and I was at 76 to correct yet you go to slop in your teachers with relevant Burly ketones is fuel and immobilize some of the glycogen right muscle and so a lot of this physiology takes place and people don't realize that that's actually going on I did remaining in technical ketosis cadets .5 I believe on the Quito mojo hundred percent and so one of the things is to direct you just burn some key tones or did you mobilize like that I think will build both probably length and selection of stuff goes on the interesting thing to have motivated by intermittent fasting just the idea of it and you know this most days that only consume bacon and eggs for breakfast and so I typically stay in moderate ketosis in the morning until we finally get to lunch past the first half-hour was really fast holy cow I got so much more stuff to talk about placing a hopping but we didn't get to the to the study and and I run it by him and see what he thinks and I trust some of the new doing that but anything to add before we take this break I just want everybody to take this break and go to love my tummy.com/booty yeah yeah he should totally do that because it's the summer everybody wins there nothing out of some orders I will be back with Lafe Harrison here in just a moment say to get a project episode 13 Dr. Kim Brown here a host of check project with my cohost Eric Rieger Eric Regency and mojo guys over there and overhears Billy talk about our 20 over bloating I've seen in my practice that I'm trying to is a whole lot more than just a floating product yes it does a whole lot more than just exploding because the polyphenols that you find to and trying to get your exactly right the polyphenols are those molecules that we find in the Mediterranean diet it makes vegetables and fruit very colorful what are some of the things these polyphenols do Eric these polyphenols can actually stop in formation help you have more energy thinking have you antiaging and polyphenols are great athletes it sounds like it's your health: more people than just loading tell me how everybody should be taking out front if you want to go so 2002 capsules three times a day basically with if you aren't bloated just want that polyphenol intake every day to three classes a day will work for you go to love atomic.com/now you can fly anywhere in the world and pay discount prices on your airline tickets flight today to London Paris Madrid or anywhere else you want to go and pay a lot less guarantee quality international travel department right now low-cost airlines 800-452-1075 800-452-1075 that's 800-452-1075 never forgotten apparel is more than just a premium women's and men's clothing line it's a movement to remind us to where American-made and serve those who serve us our heroes never forgotten apparel gives 20% of their total sales to nonprofits that support homeless veterans and off-duty firefighters and 50% to individual veterans and firefighters in need nationwide checkout never forgotten apparel.com use promo code Matt and ATT and get 15% off your purchase all right but I for the second half hour it's getting project episode number 13 and we were talking as we close at the first half-hour about fasting and then I had asked Lafe don't say anymore because he chimed in and said I tried some of that fasting and I was going to think how long did you do it was like for five days like I dig that was really hard and he said no I did one that was how long 40 days and 40 nights that is was it is at the Daniel fast which was no that was just the irresistible call by God the fast route yeah so I just did some quick Internet research on like how to even attempt it and I settled on it was all water with a little bit of organic fruit juice in the morning in a little bit of organic veggie juice at night and I just ran without the hallway 40 days Yep that's the longest everybody doing it… Looking back on that this probably maybe four years ago literally not possible without God really I don't think I don't think a human being can just sit down and knock it out of the room while did you have a regimen of prayer that you are doing with those yes Ramadan the way that the that that is done yes I think it was probably to three times a day I had some note cards of prayer said it written down in advance and I just work through those with with issues I am my family were dealing with at the time we just work through that the whole time that's amazing there is when you look at fasting it's in every single religion really if you look at it oh yeah but in the only person I can remember this even come close to as long as life is that Rita Marie Scott oh that's right she went to and for the almost the same bid the same motivation she went and she went to a rosary uncle resort but is basically a place that they facilitate people that are going to do long term fast and they give them coaching they give them support they make certain that they don't have to move too much while they do it and make sure they have water that are hydrated but she member she said she did four weeks five weeks something like that did you have a die off. Her some. We went through like a keto Fluor that stuff the people to also I don't have any terms for it but you go through multiple stages during the whole process so my experience was probably about every 45 days you would switch from one aspect of it to an entirely new one and so it started out with incredible headaches and then those past and then this is my understanding I don't know if it's valid or not but it appears that may be there are a bunch heavy metal stored up in your body and that in the course of an extreme fast they are there being released and hopefully flushed out but apparently they tend to then collect in the larger muscle groups so you go through things like extreme thigh pain extreme back pain that type of thing and that's the only correlation I can make the why you get those kinds of pains but then again over the weeks of the fast they tend to be the focus and then they tend to move on from that you really selling this like I said it's not something that can be done on your own in my opinion so this is yeah holy cow identified a fast you get a water fast days I've done the prolonged fasting mimicking diet I've done fasting in my opinion is the greatest life hack you can do that what you did is like Navy seal stuff that is that it's tough it's my opinion it's God inspired and God supported so I don't think it can be done on your own and for the for the scripturally sound people out there I'm well aware that the Bible does speaks to this is not something you brag about I only share it because that was just a process I went through and and maybe somebody else can relate to that no is an incredible journey having a need and I don't think you're bragging all the interest it's an experience for so yeah know you're being very honest headaches yeah muscle aches half can only do it if I focus on prayer now that's I mean I think that that is there's a lot of people that need to reset and I I do the fast I fast for the five days usually around trying to do it four times a year and I find a lot of habits that I've developed that I go oh my gosh that's more of a habitual thing of having that snack or having a glass of wine at night or whatever when you start paying attention to it one surprise at the end I did need to come off it mean when I finally hit the goal I I could've kept going but I stopped but I wasn't expecting a part while it is that is that is very impressive and you said a word I like is reset so it sounds to me like life you you are inspired to do it and you had your own motivations one of them that you didn't specifically mention but of course the body being a temple it would only make sense what type of away from the spiritual benefits what type of of the body the improvements did you notice at the conclusion of the fast did you feel healthier did you sleep better did you find maybe even during the faster began to just have better periods of rest and in clarity as countries I don't know that I can speak to any of those specifically know what little reading I did on it leading up to it and then try to kind of understanding it after all all that happened was it you know if if losing weight is a goal of your fast then I'm under the impression that you really don't want to be in caloric deficit more than about 300 cal per day when you're doing an and at that level you tend to compensate for that deficit your body tends to burn way more fat than switch to muscle for calories when you do an extreme one that sort of 9010 ratio becomes more like 50-50 and so you you take hits across the board so it it literally came out to I think I was 39 pounds lighter after 40 days 39 pounds right but a lot I lost a lot of muscle mass in the process sure yeah I'm it's a sacrifice though for you for going for going through it to me nothing like that comes easy but I do think that there's a spiritual reset there's a family interaction reset this did you do with would with your wife was as you will know I I told her in advance and then we as I just I told her it just kept feeling this Paul and this not preoccupation with it but it just wouldn't set aside and then I I targeted the date for the future it started but I was just like I think I'm just going start now so I just wonder because this would be all you know I do know what was common and that would affect you know the family for a good six or seven weeks but I basically just started about a week or two after having it come top of mind and just did it that's impressive because limits are what I've had. During those five day fast each one had different issues but it I want to I wanted to date three you like to get them done you know I want to know this is I am hungry definitely did you go through so both Eric and I experienced there is a hormone called a Rex and that when you get to a certain point your body is telling you to get out there and go do something did you have a surge of energy at some point day for day five of the first know but I appreciate the people would do shorter fasts go through experiences like that so I think mentally I was in this for the long run but to the best that I could be so I wasn't thinking a bit in short chunks plus I was dealing with the fact that sort of various kinds of pain were coming and going up that would really absorb a lot of the moment but I do know that people do three day five day type runs it's almost F it's almost like a runner's euphoria but there's there's there are things that can kick in during that time's up that can make a pretty special and it's hard to access those other ways is not passing because mentally your body your body knew that it had to do this is the reason why the sexy chicks and it's it's it's an evolutionary thing where if you're if you're part of a tribe and you need your get food you haven't had food by day three or four you get this surge of energy and we all day I woke up at 1 AM and started cleaning the closet and it makes sense because this hormone kicks in as it says look you get you need to get food you need to go get a surge of energy when you get beyond that when you get into a longer fast that ends and then you're actually in the starvation mode you actually went to a starvation point yeah what's also interesting is you think about people lost at sea all kinds of situations you know civil unrest something where one food and water become an issue the really do seem to be some hard stops and hard stops tend to be like three days max without water or your you're in serious trouble but you could go 30 days without food and so I don't know I'm sure most people are prepared to try to do that but it seems like physiologically you could do that if you had to while that's just impressive but super impressive and it states and ended not so much the faster the duration it's the commitment did that life was able to put himself into seems aware of your background which is really cool and very clearly or very mentally strong person but you don't own it you say no I can only have done it with prayer and through God yet it was a it was a irresistible Paul was never something I thought about it just happened in that about two weeks later decided to just go for Noah to be more like you from now on I must start with this also to stand up for second look at as an irresistible pull here is an irresistible pull into your quick picture taught that ritualized picture because I would be more like life well Amazon just launched a brand-new thing at the connection started yesterday called Stiles snap and you can look at here is a picture of late that I just took their and then Amazon will build your outfit for me it's called style snap somebody has to find out so I can get there you go Tommy Hilfiger sure I can get from Amazon so basically my wife's been trying this for seven years and was left except that I get some genital pants and I will look exactly like yourself it's called style steps interesting so Amazon has not been very good about breaking through the clothing market assault news article on it yesterday they're just about to walk around the city and be like that person looks cool take a picture and then just order the whole outfit to your house right there I don't know if that's cool or creepy as hell's creepy that mean it is cool as a Tinker that said I could see me at day seven looking just like that be like my muscles my head hurts screw the sun what if you take a picture of somebody who's really really stacked now it doesn't show shortages has a bunch of waits for you to order a treadmill or something like that awful mail through a blender and some protein, videos is very sweet lady might sit in while we will be attacked this week's research topic must do this I so ever so weak we always I was trying to pick up something that's relatively new that I find interesting and most of the time it gets really science you really geeky so I try to dumb it down but this is really cool because a few weeks ago we talked about leaky gut and a lot of my colleagues in the traditional medicine space they don't even acknowledge we can get them say that we can get exist they say that there's no intestinal permeability we really do know that there's a lot of evidence out that the article we describe that time was leaky gut leaky blood brain barrier right now we have some evidence that Alzheimer's and dementia can actually be caused by intestinal health so this article just came out it was published in the inflammatory bowel disease June 2019 very recent very recent and what they actually looked at these researchers some really cool stuff that comes out of the UK and they looked at its action one article including two different studies one an in vitro study which means they do things outside of the body in a lab then they use that knowledge to piggyback it on and in vivo study in the in vivo's when you look at humans and you look at certain and outcomes so this is really cool and what they looked at is that we all know that the tight junction in the intestines it's a selectively permeable barrier you have to be able to absorb and take in calories and you know enforcement, fasting a lot of people with a lot of intestinal disease were they fast you really don't want to because they're not actually absorbing all the food without you taking it right so in addition to CBD that we always talk about right there are other endo- cannabinoid light compounds in the definition of them and we talked about that like Bridges owns one of them right but another one is called PEA or Powell toy less than Nola mind and this is an atypical and a cannabinoid possession found in foods was found in soybeans some found in eggs in our body X produces it it increases your own endogenous and then my levels and it actually binds to certain receptors so little sightsee but it makes sense of this article looked at CBD and PEA PEA is one of those molecules that depending on how you want to use it but it is an entourage molecule so it actually works together with CBD in your own and a cannabinoid system so they have shown that PEA can buy to something called PE part alpha which is just a receptor similar to an end of cannabinoid receptor just keep that in mind. So this group had previously shown that inflammation actually causes an increase in the permeability of the intestine so these guys are on the forefront of leaky gut and have always been on the forefront of this they looked at how CBD in previous animal models could actually help this may publish this big meta-analysis looking at animals on how CBD and PEA can actually correct leaky gut based on this they went down this path and this is the study that they are she just published so when we had to don on the show he geek out like crazy and he deftly did this is my digging out because this justifies a lot of the stuff and why a lot of the reasons why all health begins and ends in the why will become sicker as a society I am working some of that crisscross article that you have it that you got from him and it makes total sense so the in vitro part of this is that they took intestinal tissue human intestinal tissue and they soaked it in these inflammatory cytokines so these are cytokines that your body produces when it's exposed to toxins specifically like TNF alpha interferon gamma and things like that they showed that this inflammation caused an increase in leaky gut and they looked at these very specific cell parameters were they could show oh look this size of molecule came through and they did it in a very elegant study so is this tend to be outside molecules penetrating or inside materials leaving so what they did is they soaked the tissue in these inflammatory cytokines and then they used immunofluorescence to show that it actually was going through from one side to the other so inside to well technically the inside of the lumen crossing the barrier into the inside of what ever that they had this case it was just another medium but it would normally be crossing into the lemon appropriate where your body would react to it so essentially what you're saying is the particles that shouldn't have been making its way to the bloodstream are now being sampled by the lecturer in this piece of fish priceless first time I've ever read an article recently looked at this and said leaky gut does exist when you cause inflammation this actually happens okay so then they added PEA okay the molecule that is cannabinoid -like receptor that is found in a full spectrum hemp product so it's going to be one of the entourage molecules that and they showed that the PEA markedly decreased the penetration of these modules I good so then I said okay will that's objectively try to cool so then they blocked the receptor the PEA binds to copy part alpha so they did that with another molecule the leaking us continued continued impressive so now we know so we sit there and we talked about where's the science in the CBD and cannabinoid industry there's people like this publishing this and nobody talk about this absolutely amazing because they said okay look it's Dr. then we blocked where it works and it happened again development I saw then they added CBD this also markedly improved the permeability stop the permeability then there able to bind the CD1 receptor and it happened again okay so they get a molecular model where they showed oh this is what is happening it actually prevents leaky gut this in my mind proves a subtle level that inflammatory markers alone can create intestinal permeability or leaky gut but now we have a mechanism but I can tell my patients like this is why I like to use these products and the symptoms that you have we now know that when somebody comes in and they got bloating and that hurt to get a bad diet a highly processed diet and they say things like I have brain fog I feel fatigued I've developed Hashimoto's I've got this we know that you've now open this gate in your body is reacting to the outside world specifically to be reacting to bacterial components to antigens things like that so many of these people this is how I got into talk about CBD the first W. Soucy in such incredible improvement sure I don't really know why you're getting better now we have a reason why don't you feel like at these levels of validation in terms of discovering what the NOAA I'm sorry but the mechanism of action is in part is is one of the key pieces that universally the hemp industry just needs for the validation and actually it's not even about the hemp industry that could be the diet industry could be anything where there is applicable beyond anecdotal improvement it's just how do I piece together the science to show that what were doing is going to actually work I think that we can do that with studies like that when you study like that were the plausibility of it makes sense and these guys clearly are deep into the weeds in this kind of stuff this is your passion and they've Artie done that analysis on on animal model so they Had a pretty good idea look we just did approve it on so so then I kicked up a notch in the same paper which is fastening which is basically two different study right and it is pretty fascinating then I decided okay this is cool know if you believe us let's see what we can do in humans so the same group took 30 individuals and gave them high dose aspirin aspirin in itself can actually create it's an inflammatory thing we know aspirin creates ulcers I'll see people commit with G.I. bleeds and know their own aspirin as per the some good things but also increases intestinal permeability okay so the way that they prove this is that they got people they gave an aspirin and then they did what's called a lactose mannitol test it's an interesting old test that mannitol is a very small molecule and it'll go through MB absorbed the depute out lactulose is a big molecule and technically you don't absorb it and you'll poop it up tonight if you have intestinal permeability that lactulose mannitol ratio comes closer so you start peeing some lactulose out night so they get aspirin until people start P lactulose so that was pretty impressive yeah want a good baseline for coming things down I think I followed that I like that they did references, funny they did reference other science articles as to why they use as principles other things in the reference a few trials in Europe were people try to give them straight micro polysaccharides which is bacteria and people and subjects of the so all of this is not an ideal test at the close of you gets up like this so what they determined that they had leaky gut and what they determined that they were peeing out this lactulose they randomly this was a randomized placebo-controlled trial gave them CBD PEA more placebo okay now they did give a pretty high dose of CBD at 6 mg and PEF 600 mg per day yes per day and admittedly said there was sort of rescaling given that docent sure happens they try to base it off some of the ratios that they soaked the tissue in in the first study but they admittedly say were just trying this to see what happened they didn't they did have a placebo-controlled though they did have a placebo correct so they were able to show that the addition of CBD and PEA dramatically reduce the lactulose mannitol ratio okay so in humans they showed that at least with this particular test leaky gut improved they took it one step further these guys are mean it's like it but I would publish the first part sure been eureka and they do this one and the lightweight I wait for it right let's take molecules which of the exact size of bacterial life policy okay without causing sepsis important so they found these text rents called FB for nifty 10 which II just I love science minds work were somebody just goes let's get the exact size because the size thing right and if it crosses then we know that they're going to react to the lie proposed record of the to react to the bacteria these happen to be very similar to the size of E. coli and I commend what sucker with the other one was basically very common G.I. pathogen okay that we would actually act both CBD and PEA reduced the FD four and FD 10 transfers well so people were paying that so they're using it like a lactulose mannitol test and why this is relevant is because this is the first time in humans that two compounds have a mechanism to repair mucosal induced wiki that's impressive and they believe it's through changes in the tight junction receptors and something called optimal Warren three in the ileum I'm not her that I've not heard of it either as it turns out aqua porn three is something that in Crohn's disease gets upregulated to try to absorb more water so you don't get dehydrated so insight it's a mechanism that the body knows that the got is inflamed and you want to absorb more water so you can survive longer as you can go three days without water or if you have too much diary of that old new depleted share of the 30 days with food so it's an incredible mechanism that you can't beat mother nature yet it you you give it you give what the body needs it's going to do this so what they theorize that this is why it may be really useful inflammatory goddesses so in my space this is an incredible find where we've got did I get a lot of Crohn's and colitis have got a lot of the people with that I can at least look at them and say look I think that this might help because of this mechanism when you look at the research with mega spore biotic disease claim you're talking about mechanisms the mechanism makes sense and many of my colleagues on and believing that God so it's very hard to actually talk about hey I want to tell you about a disease process and then I will tell you how this molecule that you probably don't know anything about is you help and this is what were to get into the next half hour you know that the whole process of how you sit there and educate and where people, and that's what Lacey did to get a great incredible background but how do you educate someone on a benefit when they don't even know that the disease exists that's out white noise that we are talking about so well they forget to go through your your history and how you got to where you are but just we got just a couple of minutes what do you think since you are a director of business and the hemp industry when you hear new levels of validation for the application of hemp products and it's not it's not just subjective this is object of data what does that do to embolden the effort of education in and around CPD yeah I think two things come to mind one is thirst just a vacuum waiting to be filled bigger than we can imagine for science backed argument for what's going on that many many people can just anecdotally express but don't know what type of context or framework to put it in in the number two it's communication there are so many people waking up to what this seems to be and in doing so few sources to go to and also buyers in the CBD market needing a eight 1/2 a a simple message that resonates that speaks truth above all the noise in the market that is confusing it and probably in it in itself based on a lot of nonsense it's it's difficult to explain but it's just stressing that everybody coming in and taking a look needs to be brought in in in a way that that is anchored to truth to the best of our ability so that they can make the best decisions for themselves and I think that so what we I am a graduate student that helps us and she send me articles like this weekly she's like talk about this on your show this is really cool and this is a thick thick thick article so every time I talk to people my colleagues to traditional MDs go there's no science behind it like alone on yeah I got thousands of articles looking at the site you just haven't taken the time to do. Not a drug rep show up and go here's the detail piece we have been Pavlovian training that we should look at anything unless you have lunch in your that is that is the truth so that is going around up this half-hour going to be back here in just a moment but looking to bring back some context behind Lake Paris and see all in just a couple minutes this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun queer spoony writing this hour from Townhall.com I'm Wally Hines marking the 75th anniversary of D-Day by honoring it survivors and the fallen June 6, 1944 operation overlord that massive Allied land and sea invasion of the French coast that began Nazi Germany's downfall help and World War II a year later to the Americans that fought there you are among the very greatest Americans who will ever live speaking your Omaha beach the president called them the pride of the nation French leader Emmanuel LeCrone said his nation thanks them and the other Allied troops who broke Hitler's hold on France we know what we owe do you vent the rents all freedom I'm solder man God before heading to Normandy the president telling reporters in Ireland he's not worried about threats to block his plans to impose tariffs on Mexico felt Mexico go on and I'm very happy with it and a lot of people have no idea what no no I ahead with those tariffs on Monday and less talks in Washington between the US and Mexico aimed at curbing illegal immigration bear some fruit a power outage at LAX last night scrambling check ins enforcing dozens of flight delays diversions or cancellations Katie bellum spoke with K NBC-TV right now all of the rest the lights are out and official say it second power bump because the airport go dark about 6 PM local Amazon says it's getting close to starting drone deliveries of packages in the coming months and promises some deliveries in 30 minutes or less news and analysis@townhall.com never forgotten apparel is more than just a premium women's and men's 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host of project with my cohost Eric Rieger I've seen in my practice that outrun to the whole lot more than just the bloating product yes it is a whole lot more than just exploding because the polyphenols if you find in all 20 waters of the things these polyphenols do Eric these polyphenols help you have more energy and polyphenols are great it sounds like it's your health: more people than just loading go to let my tummy.com/welcome back we are now going to start the second hour of getting project episode 13 I'm joined by your host Dr. Kenneth Brown nonmerit rigor and today's guest is Lafe Harrison he has quite a journey to his current position as Dir. of business operations for election all and dad before we get to life just need to remind you that if you would like to grab your self some are trying to heal gotta love my Tommy.com/spoony use the code's many safes and money that is power packed with polyphenols happens to be the only NSF certified for sport indicate over-the-counter product for IBS and bloating can't but is that mean well that means that we have done rigorous testing on it so if you happen to be an Olympic athlete a college athlete or somebody wants to make sure that what you take there was a recent study that just came out yesterday on how they were warning teenagers lots of increase to ER visits were teenagers returning to weight loss products and sport supplements that the finding lots of nefarious ingredients in their pharmaceutical stuff and that's NSF guarantees that none of that stuff exists and so that's outcome if even if you're an athlete's polyphenols can help you recover they increase nitric oxide to the muscles and they get rid of reactive nitrogen species and reactive oxygen species is Quickstart you know last week I have been there were two physicians that deal with athletes and A's they saw the NSF Marne moniker which doesn't always mean a whole lot to everyone but when you're with athletes it matters to they came up and they said that's really cool that you have that that means that we can use that and I didn't know I knew nothing about NSF until I was contacted by the registered dietitian it was on staff from the Oakland Raiders and wanted to know if I could sell them in bulk Sinatra and Teal for them to distribute amongst the coaches and the wives of players in a civil what about the players and he said Wiley if you not NSF certified is not anything that we can do with it and that's really went through me and I learned that they have a collective bargaining agreement with that includes the recommendations from physicians and dietitians that work in the MLB NFL most NCAA sanctioned whatchamacallit schools they have to adhere to NSF or for cleanliness and the other thing we are such a geek out little bit the polyphenols and are trying to do something really cool related to the under cannabinoid system to assure that is well basically you have your own endogenous cannabinoids that your body uses to stimulate your ECS and it just so happens that FAH is one particular enzyme that breaks down those Indo cannabinoids where they are supposed to function and if you are light in your polyphenol intake that enzyme may be a little bit more reactive than you need to be and so your ECS or your Indo cannabinoid system tense not function at its optimal level so having enough daily polyphenols can actually enhance the ability for your CBD both the oil you CBD you may be taking but as well as your endogenous cannabinoids to work better so one of his recovers and is absorbed this matter until one of the reasons why we teamed up powered by lexical KPMG health CBD is because they do everything right from the beginning to the end soil to bottle there they have certificate of analysis and we have our guest today at Lafe Harrison who happens to be the what is your official title Dir. business development director of business development and his pathway to get there it is really interesting yes it is and what you find out when we get through all of this is that a company like… All is really finding some very intelligent very well-rounded people to bring some legitimacy to this industry which really although it's been around it's been referenced since Chinese medicine 2400 BC or whatever it is a retard little little shows right now it seems really fairly new and there's a lot of people out there, the wild West and so they tracked a guy like you down and working to go through setting one of the cool things is your background we talked about your 40 day fast in the mental discipline and your calling by God to go ahead and do that that shows your character but where you come from I think is absolutely amazing so bad now so you filled out a questionnaire like we ask everyone to do and you were born in Phoenix and then I know if you ended up in Annapolis and the Naval Academy so you my life tell us little bit about what that would drive you to join the Naval the Naval Academy and and what that experience was like in the 80s while this was the 80s so wasn't exactly spoke I was Piccoli without the marijuana I actually grew up in the Midwest in Ohio but believe it or not a group a competitive sailor from probably age 8 on and did well enough that by the time I got through high school I got enough accolades to actually draw the attention of the sailing coach at the Naval Academy and at the time they were like multi-year NCAA champions so minus the sailing well is probably it was probably accommodation two things I got me and one was a sailing one was us is right in that sweet spot of the Reagan Lehman Navy build up for the for the 600 ship Navy at the time so they were just allowing more people in sure and caress you a quick question because whenever people come on the show like I'm two years ago we had Robo on Mike how did you become a professional rodeo got how does one get into saline and like what you start with that right so my dad was an extremely gifted mechanical engineer and through a job change to Ohio he got surrounded by other high-end engineers who were actually in this very high performance sailing world and so they sailed us one type of boat, 505 and this boat was very technically demanding and so for an engineer who could like to tinker on at the same time that's what his draw was but the ask my parents became very good sailors and then I just brought in that world 24 seven whatsit 505 is that calico catamaran or it's it's actually it's metric so it gets stands for like really 5.05 m that was the length of the boat it was just called the 505 but was very similar to some of the high-performance boats they would say looked in the Olympics at the time and so you didn't like start out like when you find like when people become Formula One race car drivers a start on go carts in the work… As you do so there are there are many different kinds of boats to fit many different kinds of of capabilities and goals and so you can really progress sort of graduate almost like you know tadpole to admit oh you know all I can and going up the dolphin you don't get your badges along the way sailing is a lot like that and then coincidentally at the same time as when windsurfing was born so my folks again just happen to be at the right spot where there were less than maybe 8000 windsurfers the entire world this is right at the beginning in the mid-70s they had them so I learned how to do that at the same time so I was almost parallel paths and then again by the time I got to high school I was good enough to you know finish well at national championships and things like that and then from that unexpectedly get the attention of the coach of the Naval Academy and the next thing I know is essentially I did just well enough on SATs and all the other requirements everybody else had that I the opportunity to go that is no joke Naval Academy is a me when you say that it's just immediately total respect to me that's that is an impressive place to get your education without question and then so your expanse the Naval Academy were you on our competitive on the sailing team for all four years are yet I did it for 3 1/2 3 1/2 years I decided to snow last semester to shut it down but it was it was her it was a that was some schedule I mean so if you go from being sort of spy coleus in high school okay right to then bang your on the other extent other extreme of hard regimen hard academics hard hours commitment me know I was probably between it's between academics and sailing I be like you have a few hours a week you know to myself we talk about it with our kids you're your son's age of 17 he is looking at colleges my sons a competitive tennis player you start realizing why when you choose take that scholarship to a college it's a job and no matter what it is was talking about it he went and did rodeo in his college yet in your dislike I don't care if it's football sailing rodeo no matter what you do and that's a job gets a job yet rated the sport probably took 35 to 40 hours a week just on the sport while my goodness what so your experience the Naval Academy beyond the sailing your degree you math I got about her science and mathematics that's fantastic and that not being a about whether brought under looks all right your math acumen I don't think they say that well I had so bit. Probably a lot of your experience along the way is the reason they brought you on and I know when your Naval Academy you you did become a parachutist and so what did that entail what you were trained to jump from planes and what kind of training that right so part of the professionalism the motor professionalism you undergo at the Academy is are you sort of summer experiences that are required so if you think of a normal through three months of summer they fill it up with two in terms of various kinds of training depending on what grade you're at the Academy so one of the summers generally one of those two months that you have to do is set your aunt ureter on a ship or you're getting a variety of sort of worldwide naval experience of submarines aircraft the Marines all kinds of things very cool but the other month is more elective and if you could pass the required tests you could do things like go to Army Airborne school at Fort Benning Georgia where the soldiers go we could get scuba training or jungle training in Panama there were all kinds of things at that time this is your electric playing going to be in the jungle to raise cool man was bowling so you see you selected to go to Georgia and jump on a plane what was that like it was okay I mean notes the Army way so they took three weeks to teach you something you can learn in a week so just in San Antonio where I said that we were just there but I did my training and so we would have to rotate your fellowship at Wilford Hall and Brooke Army base and totally cracked jokes like that the whole time on each other generate yeah it's inevitable it never stops so it's funny because you know you go through this training and it's you know it's the Army world and you just have to play ball for a few weeks but it's also the same training that that seals would go to after buds because it was the only sort of real formal basic parachuting school to go to like the Army would send their rangers to her their airborne guys to that type of thing those guys would just stand there and laugh the whole time I mean the Army you know sergeants running this program they didn't even know what to do with them but this is just some boxer seals had to check it out to her for those guys standing around and you wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole but you know you're just trying to like that with the young soldiers notice these other kinds of guys out there and just try to keep them focused no concert there more instilling for their own people you know procedure repetitiveness focused discipline that type of thing and enough for Navy guys at any level it was it was a different experience after Carrie said since you're doing this to the military and doing it there training today teach you on different types of canopies you know you see the the had the jumpers from World War II they have the round canopy was obviously there's much different board right so it all goes back to the pool analogy there's the tadpole badge in the in the middle badge in the dolphin badge and with the Army you start out that very World War II classic round parachute with a little bit of steering capability and so at in that three week program you get five jumps and you got it you know you want to land as many times as you jump out the door you know with a break and break anything five jumps got you the sort of traditional silver parachute wings you might be familiar with Museum on some people's uniforms then there's opportunity later at least on the Navy side to get more advanced training and then at at those higher levels are the more demanding type of equipment for the super high altitudes with oxygen all kinds of things so it's it's very much a a step-by-step process to become an expert in your field if you continued skydiving or anything like that since you left the Navy nope I ended up just doing the 10 jobs necessary in the Navy to get your gold wings but afterwards a civilian only one job since in are you from your probably not up for doing the squirrel suit or anything else like that or that's a rebel guy that jumped from the atmosphere Bob Gardner yeah that guy is fascinating but go easy on him he's not fast he was spinning my job while I watched a documentary on that and I've saved that ever since there's something about jumping just flat out from the edge of space just fascinates the hell out of me we we talk about this that I am there are. I realize now that you're everybody's brain is different and will always reference the free solo guy the do you know climbed right out Tanya in California and they look at his amygdala and it was very small I'm all amygdala so the thought of jumping from the atmosphere is terrifying to yeah man that was crazy knowing I can't member how many records that he broke he almost broke the longest freefall that was like the only one that he did not think he was the fastest speed I don't know I did know you bring them up relative but that stuff but yeah it was I did not know that we are going to talk about the a making fun of Army guys do that all day so after after the Naval Academy wood but can industry do you happen to so when you come out you had at least a five year minimum commitment to the military as a junior officer so I did a great opportunity to do a very very small niche thing which was a cryptology and that's a sort of a subset of Naval intelligence in general I had very arduous duties in Scotland and Hawaii some cool opportunities to serve on British ships and go chase Russian submarines around in and do cool stuff like that of the other Cold War no just to put is in context so it into the Cold War so what were talking that you are doing the chasing the submarines post 88 is yes post 88 so think the Soviet Union fell around was it but 90 tuition and so I was right at the tail end so Ida an academy experience that was 100% focus on the Soviet Union at the time so hundred percent no that was we know 4050 years of well probably 40 years of the time of Cold War so that was but that was the mindset minimize it 50 years of just and greatly just people spent their whole career that was the one thing that they focused on you come in there you are yeah but only then you graduate and in the whole world changed so the dissolution of the USSR did y'all ever have to keep up with any of the states that had broken away and there were Russian right so you know prior to the breakup this is kind interesting so I was I was a watch officer in Scotland and that meant that you know this is a 24 seven operation above spying on the Soviet Navy and some ancillary things and in the process of the world has no ideas on the whole time now I so fast right so we had listening posts all around the world and we were the specialist that me on those listening posts trying to get in it was called indications and warning you wanted there is chances that if if you know if if there was ever going to be World War III there would be indications ahead of time special kinds of Soviet activity and that's why you spied on them because there might be indications of big movements or unusual activities in your looking for unusual patterns as an analyst if those things happened then you might be able to warn the US from what you're saying ahead of what anybody else was doing so we can prepare in response about sort of the the general mission back then one of those that actually went happen was that's when Yugoslavia broke up member some of the satellite states were breaking up at the time you yeah Yugoslavia was one of him and I just happen to be on watch it one moment where one of our criteria was if there were certain kinds of activity you detected you had less than 10 minutes to notify the White House and senior had to make a decision yet and using your your life 2223-year-old and centered or Lieut. JG in the Navy you're in charge like 90 people and it's in your the and it's totally on you 2 o'clock in the morning beside for to call the White House was about the physical because you have not uncommonly will hire employees and something will will happen you know it's it's happened with everybody or its they don't show for work that whatever and the response usually is just a kid there only 25 to declare war affecting you that's not yes so one of things we do is we would spy on some of the Soviet merchant ships and you could hear them commute communicating and just so happened at the time like a Soviet merchant ship was going up the river I think in Yugoslavia and there were shots being fired on both sides of the best things right in the middle with rockets and shots being note flying over the ship to either side because the country was breaking up so you mean by the book you know if you if you studied your craft you realize this kinda met the criteria so you send a special kind of report and boom you know 10 minutes later you're waking up the world on this can you are there any part of that team had to make a call oh my that's wild and it really is that's very intense and it's kinda interesting that we got later talking to his experience in watching the breakup of the USSR firsthand a few weeks ago we had a gallon here named Rick Moore and he was working the first rock concert in Moscow and it occurred right before the fall of the wall death and working hard at Gorky Park and his interpretation of that is his civilian going over and taking those photos so it's crazy to hear that dad had been run on same time you'd be about three years after that it sounds like it did you're watching the breakup of the countries his arm and becoming aware in USSR 19 or something that that spirit sounded almost identical except he was with a lot of women in cameras and rock stars and drinking yeah it sounds like you were hold up someplace alone it's just exactly the same as that so after that after the yeah call goes to the Yugoslavia then how much longer are you doing the cryptology work for that for the Naval so I had the one tour after that in Hawaii and then I decided to get out because from from what I just witnessed is the kind of career that as a as a young person to get to do all the cool things on the front end and then on the backend if you ever get to be a captain or an admiral describe a lot of cool things that go along with that but there's an entire midcareer a good 10 years that you're not really engaged with the operational side like I was enjoying your probably bore pouring coffee and buying time go to see if you can become a senior officer later and that was just too long a run for me to go ahead and recommit to that so sues my commitment was up I realize that you not made a hard turn from who I was as a kid to what it took to you know do well and in a military environment with the type of responsibility but all of my vocabulary.point was strictly military as I realized you know I I was missing a whole other chunk of more normal life holding at this point pie 28 and so I went to business school as a way to both get more education than also sort of D speak myself on being too military about how the world work and just get a bit of a use grad school to get a bit of bit of the college experience I thought I'd missed on I can understand that so I doubt that was going to be one my questions is how did you prepare yourself for the exit do you think that it was a full year before you decide you're going to call it quits in the military that you and said I need to lay my foundation to get into the corporate world yet but it was exactly a year so I basically put my notice in the urine advanced to give enough notice to rotate out of that tour dead side just like yesterday they said the Navy then approach you and say life you should really reconsider today have kind of a yeah exit interview process really want to see that you have some level of retention so that you don't walk away no not in particular although you know the it was more about trying to get you to go into the reserves after that then disorder keep your skills relatively fresh keep your clearance active you know that type of thing so this was also kind of come this was during the Clinton years at that point and so they were also shrinking forces down there even paying a lot of pilots and stuff big bonuses to leave you know that type of thing so it's very cyclical so you would get your MBA after that to link correct right I well we only got a minute left for the rep of this this half-hour would be back here just a moment with their life but that can't you join the Navy home I just love the idea of the 23-year-old making a decision like that and be on the front and to be able to tell people I watched Yugoslavia go through this and I had to inform the US then suddenly CNN sit there doing this it's people forget what are what are veterans go through what our soldiers do in the responsibility put on them at a very young age not only that but the thing I find most incredible about Lafe and others like him that it started off with their military background training as you are forced into roles of maturation quickly and it's no coincidence that people likely independent physicians like that therein now because you've you basically in the most formative of your years been forced to make critical decisions have confidence in doing it and in moving forward so as no shock whatsoever absolutely sorted to get into that and talk about how election all brought a mind like yours in to legitimize industry absolutely okay that's in this half-hour we'll see y'all in two minutes why have thousands of aspiring authors teamed up with Christian faith publishing to publish their blog because Christian faith publishing is an author friendly publisher who understands that your labor is more than just a book we provide authors freedom and flexibility 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last last lock in your price for two years guaranteed call American dish your dish authorized retailer now 800-570-6630 800-570-6630 that's 800-570-6630 offers required critical negation 20 from early termination fee at the church and supply call for alright we are now back with a last half hour to get a project episode number 13 and I just breaking down a very awesome career path from our own life Harrison sitting to my right and that life we just basically wrapped up a lot of what you had done a Naval Academy and you prepared to leave the Navy via gaining your MBA Tulane University and then you moved into the corporate world obviously a lot different setting how did you feel prepared as you embark upon the said this new level of career yeah I guess what's up what I wasn't expecting was that sort of is a 30-year-old newly minted Brad with an MBA that then you know your I didn't expect to start at the bottom so how in the corporate world I was a porn coffee but I wasn't too far away from that either so I was I was just thrown in the world of spreadsheets and 15 hour days just grinding grinding grinding on that it's it's been a valuable tool that stayed with me since so I appreciate that part of it but it was it was a hard switch and I think it's hard for a lot of vets the responsibility and and the teams that they lead and what that meant as young people and then you can sort of a pure civilian career in its just you as an individual you've got some work assignments and you're like you you know what for you helped helps make you better in that new role but that doesn't mean that the new role understands any of that or even cares so much so you know sometimes at 30 I was like a 20 I was doing way more than this now you and your and your boss happens to be 22) so you know there were a few initial stops along the way deftly got my feet wet but as it turned out this is funny so when I joined the Navy at 17 I get a letter from my folks like a month later there like we quit our jobs or start your own business like okay I mean they never gave me any clue about that soon as I was out of the house as an only child I was out they just reset so like I said my dad was a pretty brilliant mechanical engineer he'd actually invented a device new technology for railroads to help them predictably have a better idea when it when a train might derail oh and so he could actually analyze wheels on a train as it went down the track and tell you know what that wheels about to go bad and when it does it's going to cause the entire train to derail O'Jays so he coinvented that technology and then started his own business and my mom who also happen to be an MBA at the time the two of them opened up shop and turn that technology into their business for the next 20 years oh my gosh that's actually really impressive whenever I hear any business I think about marketing how to get that out there what are you doing I just hello your dad but like a good of those weird commercials was like they were and what you train the railing we have the technology to prevent that LOL it's just a big enough business with that when you're the only ones in the world without a patented technology to deal with it there's enough there to keep the lights on while that's awesome Mr. Betty were unable to use YouTube clips to make that happen in commercials so what was interesting is that that was the classic case of it took 10 years to be an overnight success always I'll always go by the time it was a success they had grown just enough that it gave me an opportunity to go home and help them on the family business for like seven years and actually have some skills to actually make a difference wow that's awesome so then you have other jobs you would in sales what was your favorite so I'm sitting here you're with the controller your manager Jepson which is a Boeing Company correct and you're with them for three years and then how did you end up intellectuals of the old homes we put this foundation of use could you have this complex background you bring a lot of value to a company like Alexa and all it recently went public about a year ago or so right yet and so they they sought you out you bring a ton of value to the company yeah I think I have a pattern of kind of I hit I hit hard going in like all the learning that you have to do and then maybe I get a little bit bored once I think I figured something out on a move onto the next thing the difference here though is that this is this is an aspect of business I've never seen before there is in all your other work I've ever done you had to beat the phones to help keep the business alive and try to grow it here I don't call anybody they call us so there is so much demand for what's going on here can we partner with you that I that I sit here and have the only luxury of ever had my life of sifting through opportunities deciding we like we like this opportunity but were going to let that one set aside I don't have to chase everything and then take my chances to be a lot more selective below a pretty girl intend I laughed yeah have also left right so I think I think with that is there is there is a responsibility to get it right in and it's also to not repeat mistakes of the past which is it looks to me in in in my view of the world that we've had some moments like tech in the late 90s and but everybody knows how that kind of turned out and flamed out and it was run by a lot of people who if you just kind of took a little bit a look under the hood there wasn't a whole lot of their there and then finally reality caught up with them in the market this has that kind of fever in it on the front end but were trying to professionalize the market so that there are actually legitimate legitimate winners in this space because they brought in the kinds of right people to work what I call to me it's like the phase 2 phase 1 was the start up back in 2014 when the farm bill passed and gave little bit of breathing room to what you could do with him phase 2 was the second Farmville last December 2018 that said okay this is this can be more commercialized now that it's commercialized it is drawing the attention of a lot of other sort of multi-career path professionals have gleaned a lot of experiences and a lot of other aspects of formal business to come into this world with marketing operations finance business development sales all of that they they kind of they have enough wisdom they gleaned along the way to say these are tools and practices that work and these aren't in there sort of helping the entrepreneurs that worked in phase 1 to now have processes in place certifications in place formal plans in place take money from the markets in in and with a fiduciary responsibility in a mindset to manage there's those people's money that's that's why think your background is so important using the term fiduciary responsibility and you said I did spreadsheets on this job I went back I did this start up with my mom and dad I did the whole thing at 23 have this you come into this thing and every time the reason I went heavy on the shows because we talk to you talk very different everybody else's like let's strike while the iron's hot let's just do this you like let's slow everything down let's build a structure framework with both a long-term plan that's why I want to science it up that's why you want to use the processes your standard operating procedure to get this from point a to wherever you want to go and I think that the key to somebody and really successful is being able to link these different memories that you develop along the way and implement this and I do believe that there's gonna be one or two major players in the end intellectuals will be one of your supper now so that Lakes movement I think life is just really emboldens your position on on taking those approaches in this particular industry if we just backup time two decades ago and you thought of someone who may have left a large financial group or something like that they've moved into Internet or some type of Internet company you think that is a crazy move what what a wild move from a standard industry or a banking industry over to an of a frontier but you would think anything about that today if someone came from AOL and moved over Ted I don't know Dean where something like that you wouldn't think anything of it you say oh that that makes sense that's an established industry ill and exits are probably in do some, application I think where you're at is one of the new frontiers that will will look back in 10 or 15 years ago that's a very established industry will let me just throw this out you as the business development what is your six month one year goals in this industry that is just the wild West right well it's trying to get other decision-makers to consider saying no for the first time because it had to say it like any entrepreneur they had to say yes to everything just to keep the doors open and I respect that but now you can be a little more selective any need to be because it's not necessarily just your money anymore at stake have to be mindful of that you have to now instead of worrying about am I gonna get to next email to the fall you know it's more like what what could our destination look like in three years what should it look like in five years and making Pro and it's there set there's enough white space of opportunity in all of this that let's start it's making some bets now that are necessarily gonna pay off immediately but we think as the industry shakes itself out these are the kinds of things you look back on ago man I'm glad we set that up three years ago because liquid depressed today I think way in hopefully not spleen attorney but would one of those be practical application research I mean hundred percent we spend what were were sent were you are intentionally focused on areas like medical professionals and education to that audience with who can then act like internal champions like a BMD to their audiences about the benefits of CBD and at the same time just always trying to answer the question what can we do two bring a new user in who has questions how can we honor their questions and educate them in a way that they feel like they can make a smart decision for themselves those are those are two challenges I don't think we go one or two days without really being conscious of your on that same note I received an email from a friend who sent me an article from supermarket news trying to address some of the top concerns that retailers and customers have in one of the questions that I'm looking at right here as I hear that a lot of hemp CBD products are testing poorly what about brand and retailer concerns about supply integrity and I think that's one of the things that you have to differentiate yourself because there are a lot of people talking a lot of crap and retailers want to be able to be able to explain the story to the consumer that comes in the consumer wants to know that what they're getting so the brand itself when you say three and five year when you become the Kleenex of the industry that's what we want to be without her until we want to be the Kleenex of of got health it's the same thing of eventually that name sticks out because of the integrity right so like on the retail side because of the last Farmville large retail chains the national chains don't want to be too late to the party maybe not necessarily the first one out of the gate but probably not the third or fourth when either I mean the really looking for the sweet spot so we are constantly in front of audiences like this constantly making the case with with with very specific messaging that they they can then turn around to their own decision-makers and repeat that messaging is internal champion so minutes it's it's a sales process that works but it's also we need to keep it anchored and in truth and integrity at all stages and we have found that whether we've won opportunities are lost opportunities we clearly have gained the respect of audiences we spoken to say you know what yeah we might've gone with the other guy we have a feeling we you know we don't know if this'll work but we have laid such a baseline down of reputation that I think it's only a matter of time before they before they come home to somebody's gonna be there for the long term in the long-term tines into the supply question so testing bad results all of that stuff it's a it's a game the looks and almost never played it's always spent whatever money is needed to spend to get the independent third-party testing needs and publishing those results from day one soon as a product hits the market that what's in the bottle or what's in that tube is what the label says it is and then here's the end up independent third-party test you can go to the website click on approve that's what that is so we can't fix the rest of the world all we can do is set a standard that says at the end of the day this is who we are and I guarantee you that the larger corporations in the world do not want to mess around with anything on their supplier side that doesn't meet those standards so it's the certifications it's the processes it's getting corporate to some degree which can be a bad word to people but again it's really about applying lessons that matter across time and if and when you're in the phase 2 growth phase these are the new responsibilities you have to take on which is why yet yet to go outside at times were to professionalize the industry yeah absolutely everything just that I thought was just amazing that makes sense do you find date the the opportunities with other technically competitors but probably other good actors in the business is using them as allies if something is y'all developing this frontier that they become yell basically lean on each other to to make some of these advances I think it's work early enough right now there were all still competitors because there's a lot of ground to stake out however I think the markets over time will act like they do and when they do even the competitors were organ to find that sort of a co-op petition will be the the mechanism by which if there if they're not can emerge they need to coexist so like Pepsi and and coke charcoal is just there may only end up being two or three big players when this is all said and done looks almost going about it little differently were little more global in nature and at the expense of quarterly by quarterly profit performance but were playing the long game and I don't or that anyone else is to the degree that we are so did you find that going into a new frontier industry where previously doing corporate work right out of the Navy you said that you are probably in and at a lower level job and did anything you'd had exposure with in the Navy and can't work your way up and then of course you parlay that into the different positions that you took that lead you to the licks and all enjoying the hemp industry define date kind of being our frontier has then, thrust back a little bit more of a hybrid setting I I am drawing on skills that I I thought I'd long since forgotten that it is it is you need a bit of a wild West mentality but you need to remember where you came from you need to be disciplined when when other people necessarily aren't you need to learn to say no in a room when they've not heard that before you can't chase everything down but if you do commit to chase then you chase it the right way you chase it with an engagement on the front end in the middle on the backend with well prepared thoughts will prepare documents well researched well argued and it's the workload is higher than I've ever seen it and end job of ever been before but you can win if you just have the endurance to keep working harder now than ever have ever have while it just seems like that whenever you are in in the Navy talking that your naval experience and they going over listen to the Russians that you had really critical decisions that had to be made and Sunday are thrust into this corporate world where lots of it is kind of been done multiple times over and so you eat everybody kind of to some level that you didn't work but you work where you your sandbox is and now you're back into this a wild industry well a lot of people waiting on you to make a big decision it's a it's a constant tension between winging it on what your gut says and making decisions based on sound information that that tension is always there but I think whoever in this industry dials that incorrectly is going to come out on top and it is really interesting is that the Cold War right now for the hip industry is just the right permissions to be allowed and in and for the right things to happen every banking yeah just get frustrated when you see just so many companies MLM's people just making claims people do things that you're purposely not doing you doing things on the up and up and meet you even is a just white noise to you do does not care it is white noise in an because her so much workload I don't have much bandwidth left even pay attention any of that that's probably a good thing because would probably drive me nuts it's always funny because when I whenever I put any my patients on CBD and the like oh I'm on this and it cost this like how many milligrams in the Roosevelt's gamesmanship in the pricing there's gamesmanship in the marketing that's you have no idea if it that it would list the CBD you know milligrams all that stuff you have a certificate of analysis no and yet go through and explain all that I'm like this is this is an interesting industry when it become standardized when we had Christmas song on where he said I think we need to change the label we need to make make it so it's much more obvious what the milligrams arm where it is which companies have COAs which these things because that's I think industries changing almost on a monthly basis that's critical part and I think it's after the first of two parts the second part is it appears expensive but compared to what one of the pills are you on what other things you trying to target how much is all that stuff costing you want when you're taking a regimen of eight or 10 or 12 different things physician recommended or not two you know to basically not sure what ails you but just really manage what ails you well Pierce's other thing that if you if you look at on sort of a value proposition at no cost per affect I I am hard-pressed even just from a putting an old financial analyst hat on I am hard-pressed to figure out a way that you are actually saving money in the long run by getting by paying for the high-end quality full-spectrum CBD given what you then get to set aside that's been your regimen and a whole bunch of other areas with side effects and compounding of facts and really know my wife is a disabled vet injured in Army training and she's had multiple surgeries if you're not waiting for the VA you're just given bags and bags of hard drugs and all it's doing is masking a problem creating for other ones to get your mind off something central that's not being fixed so again if you bargain a talk about the cost of the of the high quality high proven CBD and I do say compared to what well what's interesting is when you could consume labs and a whole analysis and the election all actually Milgram to milligram inequality is one of the most cost effective CBD modem to milligram they did a whole analysis on this great article on that getting back to your talk about how what is the actual cost will that's what I deal with when I have patients I have the luxury of having somebody that we diagnosed with ulcer proctitis and a drug called tenacity cost $1500 a month and working in the publishing a J series here shortly about how we have shown both endoscopic and pathologic remission using essentially whatever would be at the time we were we did one month so for 79 bucks we put you into remission with that and they had real relief yeah this is not a disease claim this is just here is the endoscopic picture here is the pathologic that if you cannot go get those drugs then we have an alternative solution that brings up another point we were talking just yesterday that article that McWilliams sent over there brought up the perceptions of what a retailer has to take into consideration late obviously handling the business and for election all I'm sure these are challenges that you come up against but can Jimmy does again leapt out you whenever you read through that well it's very touching article because it was the article stated seven retailer brand owner questions answered about Pepsi beauty and you're one of the simple ones is how is it made and so it goes into little about that that's not what we have you here for were talking about some of these different the legal positions that's changing I mean from a coming from a business development perspective when you suddenly have a bill changer state adopt something your you have to pit it and move that way or move accordingly and that's not an easy thing from a business development standpoint you get so many different things well click the wind changing on your boat right you just have to adapt yeah we might not even really be in the first 10% of the soul journey yet so I'm not a retail specialist but you know I do I do have a general sense that people walk into a a target or Walmart and there's price points in their head because of their experience of being a targets and Walmarts so you know something that might be above $40 in those venues is sticker shock because are just not using to spend anything more than that when they walk in there so there is a challenge that to get on retail shelves you know were either shrinking the bottle down to a $40 price point forward giving them the power of volume but may be at at sticker shock for the person that's walking in and so that's another challenge in the mind shift that has to occur that if you're talking about being proactive about your own wellness and then comparing that to what your alternatives are in in the pain management space that this is actually a a value way out both in health and cost to manager and future but were probably still a long way there from heaven that be a common mind share that's pretty well because if you if you're able to put in you use this word last hour which is context put into context what cost is it's far more than cash out of your pocket quality of life the one thing that you can value more than anything is going to be time and if your time is high quality that's good time spent but if your time unfortunately is spent in pain or where you cannot enjoy your life your quality of life is low that's what were all trying to avoid it's what we want to escape for not only yourself but for your loved ones and if you can just use a little bit of cash to buy a lot more good Q OL quality of life it's worth it and that level of exchange is what people don't know when they see that sticker shock and can you had that issue with patients at the clinic it first when we were first using the election all and so you determine it work best in your patients we had the 4 ounce bottle and the sticker shock I was like I love to try it but it's it's a little bit hard for me to grab so actually they paid a little bit more per milligram to get a smaller step in and now they now that's the that's the kid in the model and that you know people do when they get pencil now we have a little built-in deal with somebody is KB MD docket to cave in to help.com you we build it in so that we I understand that when I put people on this I tell everybody I tell my patients said look I need you to commit to this don't try it once and say did work same thing without trying to heal don't take one tablet go out and work right because it is same thing with pharmaceuticals all the studies have always shown whenever we do a study on anything that it can take up to X amount of weeks to work lovable so I tell anybody but think of you under cannabinoid system like a sponge it's really dry you may require longer and and more amounts to really saturated once your saturated you're going to feel like a new person and depending on what those issues are the problem is is this white noise Irby says it fixes this effect is that we know an hour ago we talked about leaky gut not saying that effectively could get I'm telling you a mechanism in a research model how it actually binds to certain receptors to do this hence when somebody comes back and says hey I feel better I believe that the combination of trying to and to BMD elixir no branded hemp oil is met to work together and that's what's really cool because I see that success specially my Crohn's and colitis people I see it whenever they come through for the scouts and they give us the report that I feel better already so we can mention names we had the one gentleman who suffered from from Crohn's for a long time who'd been anemic for years and suddenly now he's not and the only thing to change the wasn't diet he darted in and hearing to that essentially just yeah my only disappointment with it now is that my staff is gone so good now as we take time to do the show and stuff and so I have my my physician assistant Megan who's gotten good enough that now when I see people as I can see beauty and the like cannot I lose the ability to do a whole like Megan's been pretty good but be blown it's okay you know because it's a little bit of a dopamine increase when I get a chance to talk about yeah definitely well life believe it or not that's Artie been two hours and I can't thank you enough for forever riding your horse on the way down from Colorado to join as herein in the text would you have that you comment about the air conditioning in our little studio you over that that is like I station zebra classical Navy rock Hudson movie yeah well I don't have that one in my viewing pleasures retweets" movies but guy Vincent Krupp list tombstone as that is why your favorite movies also classic yeah that one can wood your favorite tombstone Lonza Doc Holliday I'll be huckleberry it up that's that's us most people go to movie mine is a you tell mom common in health coming with me well I hear thing the show there is also the one writer says while by some of her coming down I love the fact that Melissa will grab you from the corporate world and you got to get your work cut out for you episode 13 then the books lay thanks a lot I really appreciate it we will see y'all next week right on this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun query spoony number two employee pay Jimmy Jimmy this is your daily peptalk I know it's been rough going ever since people found out about your a cappella group met harmony but you will bounce back I mean you're the guy always helping people find coverage options with the name your price tool it should be you given me the peptalk now get out there get that high note and take Matt harmony all the way to nationals this is say as a casualty insurance Company and affiliates pricing limited by state law and no and had from dad save money on car insurance when you bundle home and auto with progressive I think is businesses where did you get this I'm talking to you with the hair yeah where did you get this good stuff so that's not the near that solid stuff progressive can't save you from becoming your parents but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto scheduling interim 70 affiliates and other insurers discuss not available in all states or situations
Ken & Eric tackle the outlying topics, nice GCP show contest, learn about NBS (Narcotic Bowel Syndrome), selfies are killing people, PTSD and med marijuana in Texas... Drop in the GCP and enjoy DR. Brown addressing the topics that could be shaping the world around you.
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Nancy husband and wife may kiss the bride connectivity care whenever you need video chatting with the doctor right from your phone so I don't need stitches thank you Dr. United healthcare health plan benefits may vary welcome to the projects with your host Dr. Ken Brown I Eric Rieger will we all check our egos at the door and nothing is off the table again what happened man we are on episode number 12 we are big doesn't it is a big dozen so it's always like this on this is like a recap episode were just going to cover a lot of stuff just you and I and really really really cool like this is super exciting so on we call this episode topic talk simply because next week we actually will be out of town to go to IFN down in San Antonio the functional medicine Society corrected outwardly running the booth there outfront you there and I FM in San Antonio I love San Antonio it's a great city absolutely and it's kinda wild so if you never heard of IFN we have tried for this is our third year it's so popular but even though we were asked by the IFN to go ahead and be a part of the show we just wait we can sign up in time they heavily that everyone is going to be a part of the show they wanted John Teal in this year now they've moved venues to a larger one John Teal was definitely invited were really really excited to be there on behalf of trying to heal so looking forward to the show next week on how the Antonia I love the functional medicine doctors because they are open to just talk about checking your ego at the door they will at least listen to anything at all prior episodes episode number 12 we covered a lot of things that could be considered a little bit atypical you know the photo bio modulation things CBD talked to were always doing all that kind of stuff himself stem cells that stuff is novel and it's the functional medicine community it typically leads the way and they start using it and then we can start getting some data and then we can start putting into traditional medicine definitely so today's today show we decided we would kind of reset we got a great contest to remind everybody about we've got does some some viewer emails that have suggested some incredible topics to one of their particular from the believe it's leaves David and I were going to get to that in a moment but can a reset of course to begin speaking about trying to heal if you ever suffer from bloating or abdominal discomfort get yourself your daily polyphenols with all trying to heal go to love my tummy.com/spoony love my tummy.com/20 why/spoony can muddy think would say that because it makes everybody a winner when you put in the code spooning you out of the vision rolled into our discount contest in your hundred percent guaranteed to get a huge savings on this so SPO and why putting codes booty definitely so love my tummy.com/spoony spoony so the network continues to grow the popularity continues to grow I checked out trays chow down again just as last week I'm a terrible cook you know this I'm getting a a nice girl sets a big green egg yeah green egg having him come in the worst on the grill but now I follow directions I can actually what makes food the people will eat not just the menagerie of animals that is charred remains and I you know is less easily but no it's is a lot of fun but Trey shot out is got great information check them out on the spinning networks money.com has a full lineup of his ally would be all the times that I realize there are a lot of people who catch the repeat go to spoony.com and you can see for all of the shows but definitely trays chow down where it finishes and where it re-airs throughout the week awesome the one of things only try with you okay right now just I realize I think one of the things we should do is continue to grow intellectually okay you know that I like to read the daily stoic every day they always have quotes from scholars Jeff Solomon read you a quote but I want you to tell me which scholars said this okay this sounds hard yes it's gonna be really difficult okay I am probably in the sky flying with the fish or maybe in the ocean swimming with the pigeons see my world is different I'll give you a hint okay who loves lasagna oh is this this is God belittling this little why I should've known that now yeah yeah I know that's good he had a real Jesus movement sounds like lasagna I got in real Jesus move in silence like lasagna yeah man I got as deep on lyrics sure that's funny so what do you what you are going on as best we can mass past weekend was the beer I have a stuff like essay on repeat but where were back into into basketball and hip so that a couple times I have said that 12 times the exact I know no doubt and debit actually this last Sunday because of basketball the boys missed they miss their traditional celebration with with mom so Marie and the boys went drove I went drove vast electric go carts which we are introduced to backhaul crewmen knock her out in California I think you may miss that woman I want to go with them in thesis racetrack called K-1 and I have one now here in Dallas and that means great they loved it K-1 the one that so I did one when I was it I was given a lecture at ECG I went to the morrow and ready one and it's it's basically a tract that has light turns that little beat dips up the down it's not just a straight flat what was this one that is deathly not flat but I don't think it has any bridge volley or anything else I can think it's all routine S-curve about it but it is deftly technical and of course the boys and Marie came back and they send in one's great number to their surprise at the max speed limit is 45 and Max said my youngest he said that's scary scary dad but nope I really want to be out jet when you were almost tight turns like that oh yeah yeah for sure so the great Mother's Day no not typical but really not typical she liked do I do things are adventurous so that was that it was deathly fun for them speaking of carts do you remember when our good friend Russ ironic Dr. Veronica San Antonio which were to be seen next week sure he called into the show when we were talking about Lou Gehrig's disease and you know the effect is that dying of that right one of his good friends their son was a go Carter like always the child became really good when on the circuit and now like races for Porsche no way is like a 18 or something cool scratches will tell Mac to stick with it just seemed it seems so hard and I know it's it's a career pathway that I'm completely ignorant to I don't know how they how they get to that point where was someone said when I want you to drive for my team even though I'm pouring millions of dollars in this car in for a crew and equipment etc. that just seems it seems while was not sunny like okay you look it's you wonder how people end up in certain sports like for instance Tim Duncan was when he was a swimmer yeah you know if Michael Phelps didn't jump into the pool what would you be doing in certain countries they certainly communist countries were back in the day when they would find Olympic athletes they would like looked like you you're to be a power lifter based on X, Y, and Z user to do this I don't know yet so that give you a Tim Duncan is doing now no I believe that he has been training as an MMA fighter post-NBA career no way I yeah I'm certain I read that somewhere but yet that's that's what he spends his time doing is its MMA training etc. mean so from awesome swimmer if I remember correctly story about Tim Duncan I don't think that he I think that he really played competitive basketball until was a very late team and then went on to and he and Junior hide in play and then he did start planes like his junior senior high school maybe I do it one time I don't member the whole sword hung up as I was we lived in San Antonio I saw San Antonio and I had the David Robinson and Tim Duncan team and they were just an incredible team to watch so focused individual for sure how you know what I did not tell you crazy story so you knew I was in San Antonio two weeks ago the family okay I taste funny story sup with a family and we use over and lift whenever we go on vacation it just it just takes away the anxiety of having to wonder where you can go and even though you may be familiar with and it was a town just is easier nobody can hop in a you joy your conversation you go out to eat happen to a new girl after something some kind of rideshare something like that well after one of the games we often do one of these ride shares and were going back to our hotel which is down in downtown San Antonio which is going through a great renovation of of Regent application and it didn't do a lot clean up I mean there's cities do that they Evan flow and San Antonio is kind of on the uptake right now so it is starting to really kinda come together but we stayed at this new hotel that just open nothing months ago and were making our way down the road and the traffic jam begins to kind of near Jack is bottlenecking because there's construction and we see seal vacationers tourists like to know what they are what parts on a cousin over in downtown will probably like Riverwalk area area now, probably like two blocks away from Riverwalk itself where where we are on the car but you can see tourists making their way to the Riverwalk area and I believe our hotel backed up to it so about 2 1/2 three blocks away from our hotel's hotels nice really nice well so on one side you see tourist making away on the other side you see where the the economic developer has a quite started but it looks like to get some preparations forward to redoing the road and there's just a group of just random folks I'm okay and one gentleman grabbed my attention because he stood out and is wearing on the tour side are only not on the terrace okay he looked like he knew where he was but not everyone else really knew if he knew where he was whole and he had a tie-dye shirt on and it was his kind dirtying in and tatted me up that happens on our tattered tatted but that tattered and I hit on some camo shorts and lots of keys like EEE can probably open up most of the doors and Senate just like on the changes this is a big ring and a Dave they look very noisy I can tell of it was that was an alert bell that he made for himself or he really had access to lots and lots of places but since we this gigantic ring of keys and he's kind of looking at some of the key master from the court or Ghostbusters it doesn't really matter and at this point he's looking it away and were stopped in traffic which is bottlenecked as a red light and he's, looking closely cars and then kind of checking them out now and I'm still not thinking too much of it but I did I just noticed you like holding keys up to I think this will work to put my name in there now it it it what wasn't quite like that but then suddenly he just decides to make his way in there's just these two trash cans there's a black one as a blue and but that they are identical and in shape and whatnot but it's the big metal was a kind bow out there there meant to be on the sidewalk easy for passage and you throw garbage and it will he walks past the black one with intent and then dips his head down into the blue which was the second with complete intent and he's only in there for half a second because he reaches in and he grab something right away so he it appears to me he knows this is in there and is he brings it up he's holding a handle and he's basically shaking off will looks like trash can juicer trash can do what I want to it's it's it's a really really rare fruit but and in most urban settings you'll find this this trashcan fruit in you and then you can squeeze the juice yes you can always squeeze the trashcan or as later my my my family decide that I think that's just blood because what it will hence was a no go was a hammer it was about 18 inches long and then he picks it up and looks at it turns it from side to side glances that all of the cars and then sets the hammer down and put his hands on his hips and so the key master of San Antonio yes nothing happened was trash Nancy standing there and then all of a sudden he just bypasses and realizes that he remembered where he left that hammer he said I guess he was in the marinating and I'm not really sure what was going on but it was read it was really interesting because then I found myself feeling like a fish in a fishbowl I we hopped out I don't know what we do and why is he looking at our car was he looking at the other cars what to do with those keys once you hammer how do you know is in there what's that juice so anyway I just I found myself wondering what puts someone in that situation but he had he had no conversation with anyone around it is probably 5 to 10 people walking passing by and then is he just kind of zoning out scanning vehicles watching them bottleneck he just decided well it's time on going to go ahead and pulled his hammer out and he didn't go and do anything with it he just stared at cars every set it down and then kept staring at the hammer and then staring at cars and then finally we moved hello you guys in traffic I saw is bottlenecked seriously in any way we we've gone from two lanes down to one but finally the light turned green and slowly we made our way and have I was happy-seemed like a bully expecting Russ to call in again like this will go much so here in San Antonio you know hammering like little back story here because words do filled in that or just maybe he's looking for a second nails I don't know he's looking for something it's given given the door to open given some construction project to do he's ready he's ready to build really quick that it's funny that you brought the goober live thing because on the news this morning they were talking about how certain industries just disrupt everything what we know that with completely disrupted the whole transportation sure catches whatever everything well because of the Over and lift drivers now in certain airports will do this in certain places this whole article came out about how at the Washington airport I think with the Reagan airport Washington broom lift drivers would get together and they would all turn off their apps for two minutes and what that would do is in the algorithm of bring with okay it would show that there is a lack of drivers in that area and increase the fair yeah so they were genius they would all do it together at the same time so that they could increase their fares you know how it says oh fair increased high-volume time it's a really highborn time that you have a lack of drive right and so they all get together it's technically illegal in the Buber and lift driver handbook handshake whatever it is the cheater there been other things that happened in Newbern lifts the would that be considered price-fixing I'm here 100% is considered price-fixing that means what would it be on the action of the other drivers are doing I'm just curious because their action at the one putting in the algorithm for the fair increase it's technically over and lift or any of the others who are doing that they are there calculating it by their scarcity so these drivers are just on their there free to turn their phones on and off the other actually saying that what the will do that but here's the here's the quote every night several times a night to relive drivers at Reagan National Airport simultaneously turn off the rideshare apps for a minute or two to trick the app into thinking that there are no drivers available creating a price search when the fair gets high enough they all agree it's time and they turn it back on so they probably are just sitting there searching to see what the cost is everybody sit there waiting and it's like old hold go to Braveheart and that's nice now that's really interesting but I mean if you think about it I mean that's that's the access that's it's the loop all right that's what everyone does they find loopholes they find it the path of least resistance there thereafter to make money I mean that's some of them that's that's their job that's just but it drives me nuts because I mean you know I've been to let conventions like that like natural Expo West or when thousands of people suddenly walked out of the building with some massive conference and you go to that group or a new light the fair just quadrupled oh yeah just coming that's nuts we've been that even the Lubbock and so I've gone out there to either sport and I met the one driver low but by the way the wind so I I've been out there for for game day now for it to take the ball game or even basketball and when it's not you want to take an Uber you can go from one side of town to the other it's very easy drive people drive friendly at their it's super super easy is never congested you can make one side of the other in about 10 minutes no matter where you are there may be $10 at most but on game day you can easily see it going just from being at the campus which is around the 4th to 19th area and then head over to 50th you may see the fair as much is 35 bucks just to get your going to meet people for for dinner whatever after a game but yeah that's I always wondered that because it's not it's done at the hard to hail the Uber why the fair increases it silly just because you can because that's really what it is why think I think it all comes down to that I think the algorithm sure that is basically there's a load a need or the drivers are being used up the fair will increase I think is to incentivize other drivers that are on break or whatever to down and out to get out and do that and I don't know I've never lived under the rug she had friends who been in between jobs and it's been it's been great for them to be able to supplement income is really some I don't know do do Cooper drivers airlift drivers get like in an alert that taxpayers are increasing they wanted turn your the cab I don't owe very much like John Wick with the assassins when the yeah they tell about the alert's time it's time to go back in business and help in my car so what what is happening in the Brown household at the moment well we got kind of proud of Lucas tonight he is being inducted into the national honor Society who is nice this is interesting right over here in Colleyville which means I don't have to go to farm and hang out here just work here in this lovely Fort Worth area no joke what I meant drag a five minute drive yeah it's nice for you Lloyd is complaining that it's at 5 o'clock in Colleyville and like to meet you there it's so proud little guy doing the title of the Internet and, she's she's been Judy named Shiva name to the list man so the school this public school the school that Carly goes to has some really smart kids and it is very proud of Carla she got always wish of this presidential award right and they gave always other awards and this is it the school goes up to the eighth grade and one of the awards that they gave was the when Duke invites kids to take the SAT tips five tips are some general but it's the real SAG that I get in there put the same pools although the high schoolers they had at the school seventh and eighth graders they had like 12 of a score over the 95th percentile 95th percentile compared to high school senior US why probably US white while yeah that's why I'm so proud of of my daughter for you and straight A's in school that is academically extremely competitive wow well that's that's just a curiosity so I your and your oldest Lucas he's been doing home so now for this last year so that he could do the touring that he needs to do for tennis house that has a working out for him both working out that's why were doing this over here it's actually considered great by public school but does everything online) it's just because of his schedule it's just one of those things you can't miss is what schools he doesn't so great I call it was actually pretty well known throughout Texas for their curriculums that's really interesting they seem really innovative account on top of it it's a little so far it's worked really well in ways they don't like it and that's also siding the usual stuff so I think next year when he goes to high school he's going to try and integrate himself a little bit with some of the extracurricular type stuff but there's something that will and in that makes sense though so he can be he would be involved kind in the club activities of people his own peers and have some more social interaction but it's not like you didn't have any this last year he's got on me I hear you bring it the same names over and over again that is a tennis cohort said he sees on the road Weatherby from the West Coast or down to Florida he just sees them sets kind of his colleagues the moment it's pretty much the colleagues I mean everybody get out to some of the basketball menu guys do is run these different circles and sure you know you just end up becoming friends the parents become friends know the boys liked (different ages notes it's the beauty of life just can't get yourself exposed to get out there little bit speak of exposed your boys are not should say speaking of exposure that's all that is all right yeah well I was always dance up that I had a great time seeing your family at generosity feeds once told him about the man Ronco blending while huge contact that we met out at dead baby bathwater and note big shout out to Hollis Mladic for knowing exactly who to who would include net group so ill for the listeners Dr. Brown here is he doesn't say to himself as one of the most altruistic people without ever saying it and basically we took the company they were starting here we have that I don't have the sick as I have it tattooed on my lower back but debit for the CBD and the research and are trying to heal we always want to find the best avenues to give back to the public and sometimes weekly letter window when we do it sometimes we don't but this last week it was really cool we get to talk about a little bit because it took a lot of pictures and his generosity feeds and Rocco Bundy with mod pizza they go to a lot of different urban areas I think almost every weekend and they recruit people to come in and pack meals in this last Saturday it was Saturday Saturday yeah we we packed 11,000 meals for needy children in 44 minutes 44 minutes in the DFW area what something I did not know is that one in five kids the only food that they get is actually at school in certain in certain urban areas because of the the lunch program that's the only meal that they get so that they may go the whole weekend without food that's what this is for us to stick food in their backpacks so that they can eat there was a really cool thing and actually when I was even also equally impressed with was the quality of the ingredients they were pulling out to make those suits that were on the go that it wasn't just beans and it wasn't just beef it was high quality beef broth Max etc. they they want to feed the kids a nutritious meal when not to say hello a look we give them some rice the complex Caritas like that you have the protein you've got a the rule base for the libido fat that's awesome was I totally agree and pack and that those you are doing doing charity like that once in a while just remind you that there there are people out there that are quiet but they may not be getting the the basic needs of life that it was it was a lot of fun Ron thank you so much for the invitation and of course he's he's been a great template on showing us what we can do to engage in more charity getting back with the companies and we we plan to take full opportunity to do so that was a quick half-hour next time I will already already get into a research topic in the next half-hour we had a talk about the dangers of selfies really interesting statistics there had what's going on that you in developed countries not building see here a little bit so 12 I have thousands of aspiring authors teamed up with Christian faith publishing to publish their blog because Christian faith publishing is an author friendly publisher who understands that your labor is more than just a book we provide authors freedom and flexibility throughout the publishing process professional book editing award-winning design and some of the highest royalty structures in the publishing industry and is always you will retain 100% of the rights to your book I was looking to find a company that I could trust one that assisted in the editing process completely Christian trade publishing will publish market and sell your books in all major bookstores and online booksellers as well especially Christian bookstores call for your free author submission kit 800-978-4812 800-978-4812 800-978-4812 that's 800-978-4812 Dr. come around here a host of project with my cohost Eric Rieger I've seen in my practice that I'm trying to is a whole lot more than just the bloating product yes it is a whole lot more than just exploding because of the polyphenols that you find in Alicante what is looking to these polyphenols beware these polyphenols help you have more energy and polyphenols are great sounds like it's good health: more people than just loading go to love my family.com/take the pain out of ordering your diabetic testing supplies with diet thrive diatribe ships the testing supplies you need directly to you when you need them best of all with plans starting as low as eight dollars a month diatribe is probably going to cost you less than what you're paying today diatribe is so convinced that you love their service they're offering your first month of supplies three simply type the Kodak DOC and checkout diet Thrive.com that's DIA Thrive.com okay that is now the second half hour at episode 12 that check project is reminding your break I completely forgot to hit on something that was important even said I was going to do it the top of the last half hour and forgot so what was tests I now when I forget probably because I'm not training radio so you do a lot of things were not trained definitely heavily do so gut check project we want to reward the listeners and we already had people who have responded heavenly appreciated everyone so far has sent me examples of doing this through iTunes and that's great so keep that up but essentially the contest to win a free month supply of Voltron teal and a free KB MD CBD flavor of your choice whether it be natural or sentiment is simply have to go to you YouTube or iTunes or really both and then subscribe take a screenshot send me an email which all you have to do is go to get your project.com go to connect you'll see on there you can select the message it says I subscribe and it says it's a message it in July we will draw a winner we have five winners that's the value of how much I watch it.can of all of 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of the hour I said I want to be more intellectual with you which scholars said I'm probably in the sky fly with the fish or maybe in the ocean swimming with the pigeons Jesse my world is different I give you a hint that I said has something to do with lasagna will my wife Loida just texted me and she said with that I thought it was Garfield legal scholar Garfield right you actually probably on equal footing just in two different ways I got the logical thing to say he did a political basis is a lazy cat what you think about that is that is AAA really really lazy cat that made his own cartoon no being that lazy is pretty successful towards Casca but you know you're not lazy I know you have a research topic that you want to get to I do want to get to that but first I want there's some cool stuff that's happened in the news recently I was forwarded an email that House Bill 3703 in Austin patients will now be able to have access to the states medical marijuana program if they been diagnosed with medical seizures multiple sclerosis terminal cancer incurable Alzheimer's Parkinson's Huntington's autism and Lou Gehrig's disease and we we often talk about Alzheimer's Lou Gehrig's disease and autism we talked about that a lot so this is this bill did pass in Austin yesterday I think is what passed those pretty one thing the people were little upset about is that they did not allow PTSD which is honestly very very common but PTSD know that is interesting do you think that what number one the exclusion of it it just this is a unique to the medical field either legislators are elected to make these decisions don't you think it's kind of strange though that probably there's a lack of expert opinion in helping shape things and applied to someone who would have the knowledge to do that you got elected person who has any idea what their background is in essentially they are the ones determining what the best sciences to make a decision for who can have access to something so I had a patient that is a patent attorney and there's some patent laws that her changing and she got together with a bunch of other patent attorneys and other offices and they got hold of the senator into I think I would get this wrong but basically to have a lunch with him to explain why the bill that's presented is not a good one and it will lead to patent issues Robert has a little date they hide stuff and that it cost like $50,000 to have lunch with oh my educate go to okay yeah but I mean what is the money go to the coast to the campaign or to go through whatever but the whole point is is who gets to the person that makes the vote just as make sense it's that's tough and you know the whole PTSD thing that's what my actual article is on but it's it's pretty thick it's pretty cool to get into that but there's a reason why I really do think that we need other treatments for these diseases that right now in the medical field we don't have good treatment for and people are self-medicating all over the place onto a quick story before you get that research his adjuster mommy and I did not share this with you this last week but you know that I do I blocks for another friend of mine now ophthalmologist Dr. Rogers Eckhart fantastic out the mobs by way of indenting so we had a patient who came in older German served Vietnam service country proudly he's basically been relegated to the VA for his his healthcare to get chronic pain my pain issues this particular patient did and he came in with some bad pain so he couldn't get under control and the person overseeing his care at the VA has determined now that he will not refill the OxyContin or wherever he was on I can't protect which one it was a HUD known size hardcode on hydrocodone that he was currently on he's not getting any more because they felt like it it it kept increasing hey base was getting diminishing returns they just are stopping it for a while will basically what that did is it allowed his blood pressure to increase to Heinz where we could do the procedure so this poor man it is relying on the VA etc. he begins to pour his heart out to me says I've gone to the VA I tell them I am in pain and they're telling me that all I'm trying to do is raise the dose I have no interest in quota quote being high or anything else like that and then he went on to tell me something did just Kelly shattered and shatter me when I hear you talk about the marijuana lawn it's great that they're opening up access but he went on to tell me that 3 1/2 years ago he had gone out of state to Colorado with his family and was able to obtain marijuana legally in Colorado and that his pain threat or is is obtained for the threshold I guess technically in his in his description, went up the threshold went up and the pain went down any had great comfort he was able to sleep for the first time and will able to go to the bathroom without issues and so when I hear that and he returns here and he said he was then worn by the VA when he began to talk to his doctor about it if he were to test positive he may be kicked out of the availability to get his hydrocodone here while he still in Texas it just what what kind of service are we allowing these people to get this poor man now he couldn't get his it will be good to scatter so I mean if you stop and think about that this is the problem when I went to medical school we were told you can you have to know one of the five things you have to make sure that you take care of it's a vital sign pain is now vital sign I what is your pain level if you're if you have somebody was in pain you are obligated to treat that paint and we were told that don't worry you can get people Vicodin all this other stuff because is always a real pain there will be no addiction issues that is not true not true at all we learn that one like right now were still learning it that's also excited to see that Denver at least decriminalize the use of soul Sieben yeah because there are trials going on right now silicide is extremely effective in PTSD and you and I had a long talk with Dennis McKenna right and that psilocybin is the actual molecule bits and mushrooms the people described as mushrooms the hallucinogenic mushroom but that civil Sieben really does some interesting neurologic stuff and somebody was a huge part of that is Joe Rogan Brian I was listening to item number which one it was Joe Rogan was on and that they kept talking about doing suicide and in various doses and how micro-dosing is actually something that a lot of people are doing a lot of very successful CEOs are doing so it was with Jorge my hospital is an MMA fighter name in MMA fighter they were talking about where Jorge did some bro science it took a little too much mushrooms is pretty funny episode but I always get back to this we we create this problem and then what would you do is were just going to say no not to give you anymore because we know like almost everything else that you take caffeine included I can have 67 cups of coffee and I'm perfectly fine because I drink a lot of coffee my receptors down regulate the response to which that's can happen with opioids this can happen with everything and when somebody needs more to achieve the same pain level is not necessary that the third seeking more for the addiction property you literally will start having pain at the same dose I have to keep going up and then we withdraw people get into note they go through withdrawal it's a legitimate addiction go through withdrawal and then nearby Gustavus of compensatory mechanisms that basically just like this gentleman was experienced with high blood pressure now we can't his vision now suffers his quality of life is going down because he's in chronic pain he's having to be wheeled around by his daughter it's in she's in tears as were saying it's just not safe to do your eye right now we wanted someone so badly to do it but high pressure hi ocular pressure and blood pressure can lead to a rupture and then he would just lose vision in his eye altogether so unfortunately we had to just reschedule high blood pressure due to withdrawal symptoms distribute an anxiety component to maintain component to it and when you say that you can't sleep sleep is the most important medicine the one thing if I can get one thing for all my patients to do get a good night sleep because so much stuff goes on that heals your body that makes you better while you can sleep so that's one of the reasons why I'm so adamant that when we launch this health box the D had health box you we will make sure the people can heal their brains get some sleep there to have more energy all of it works together if we can get people feeling better definitely and hereby to touch on that PTSD did it before you get to that hinge is one second one more thing on the veterans here's what I think some people forget whenever the federal government prevents us from doing research on a particular substance it's just that means there is no innovation it's really legally allowed to be had so keep in mind that most of the movement for us to move forward to have evidence-based practice or protocols I should say using medical marijuana helping states like Colorado and California kind of set us on the track way were we can start looking at THC and other substances came from Israel because we prevented it from happening here but they were specifically interested in taking care of people that serve their military which is everyone has to do two years over there we should be taking better care of our veterans here they have sacrificed their time and for the most part several years of earning power to simply serve their country and it just doesn't make sense that when it comes time to take care of them in and I'm in a situation where they are in direct need and we've essentially used them as a country to serve us why we turn them away it just doesn't make sense that we did that's that's the system that they have to exist we were talking there is a friend of mine and Rich Hagedorn out of vogue in Omaha Nebraska one from the date he's part of founding member of soldier Valley spirits words they actually get proceeds to veterans so they got their own there making different whiskeys winning awards doing that kind of stuff and they give a certain percentage all the time to our veterans which is cool and it's only veterans that work so super cool I wish to have them on yeah I know he's really really really funny guy super high-energy two quick things on the opioid thing To do so in the news yesterday that a small study came out oh New York Northeast I can't remember see it's not ethical is Mount Sinai I think him on Mount Sinai where they took a small number of people that were heroin addicts and they actually gave them marijuana okay CBD CBD I hope to see I haven't read the article just on the news I want I need to get that article and they it really helped with OP addiction so we got that question brought up in one of the shows about does does CB do you know you always be careful about making claims but when a study comes out because I'm not making a claim I'm referring to the study the study showed that they were able to get some of these opioid heroin addicted people off of heroin using CBD now I did not see it but it does sound incredibly annoying but that's just have to be no topic for a show to follow up with because I don't know but it sounds incredible and just think four years ago that kind of research wouldn't exist certain that stateside no effect on the news director talk and that most of the research coming out of Israel or Canada now now since Canada's the get into a little bit direction looking at it what was the name of the person that emailed you about have you ever heard of narcotic bowels that was David David H LLC last name on it that's what something you give me permission to do but to David and what he did as he specifically brought them into our attention at David thank you this was an awesome email basically saying that articles date back to 1987 and then several of them the NIH has posted two articles on it and then nine 2007 they were even revised in 2017 and it's a condition called NBS or narcotic bowel syndrome just like I Dr. Brown said coming there's a there's actually a lot of legitimate research that behind it and his his claim here is by physicians and pharmacist are completely unaware of it even being a problem but I mean you are you being a G.I. maybe you did know by this moniker but you kinda seem the symptom occur I have I've had a couple patients and you're almost chasing me almost on the acculturation of the Dragon because this is fascinating you can be taking opioids for let's say back pain the motor vehicle accident you get the chronic back pain drawn opioids and a very weird thing can happen this narcotic bowel syndrome actually when you're on opioids it can actually change the motility of the intestines and we know that which is motility you can allow bacteria to grow which means you can have more gas produced and it actually causes something called hyperalgesia so your visceral sensitivity goes up in a paradoxical way song to say this again you take opioids for back pain but your gut actually ignores the opioids and hurts worse so I've had people on opioids and they look like their pain seekers is like my belly really hurts and you realize we could get you off these opioids and that's what I've done with about four patients the whole point was trying get them off cold and in the medical terms called opioid induced hyperalgesia so it's a characterized by paradoxical response people that are getting opioids suddenly now what's interesting is that doesn't just happen in the gut we have a term for there is a possible tapping other places in your body words like oh now this art will all be lowering the pain threshold in other places where what happens what happens acutely and that in hospital course would be blood have too many opioids one of the first things I complained about it it almost always starts with the nose but it can spread out to the body that's the itching you have had this conversation before many times the first thing that's prescribed to them is Benadryl and unfortunately it's not a histamine mediated itching response at all that will do nothing you need to use unfortunately to offset the opioid drug yet to get a opioid mix agonist antagonist did like it like a new vein or something like that to make the itching stop because the Benadryl simply will just stop histamine makes him tired so that it is fall asleep itchy and you not really doing anything unfortunately it can take someone to another state where since the opioid suppress respiratory drive and not being awake actually will drive down your respiratory rate as well that's a natural response that you get rest so it's just a bad combination Ali around when especially when in today's day and age mostly outside of anesthesia trained people the first thing people reach for is not an all an opioid agonist antagonist to handle it when you and I had a conversation first I thought of I was an intern in San Antonio how about 2 AM called by a nurse we give this patient's pain medicines and I was itching everywhere 0.5 Benadryl what he is normally your intern I learned something early on this is advice to anybody that's doing a career when you find someone who's been doing it a lot longer knew no matter what their title is listen little. I've always so we had to rotate with the military in the military you know if you go in as a doctor you automatically going as a captain so your officer right but you do whatever that master sergeant says yeah so I made my life real easy but when I was at the VA in the ICU I would just I would defer to the nurses that were there for 30 years be like you teach me even do a little longer I've been here a week elevating that eight years but you're exactly right maybe we we didn't want us coming up through the anesthesia training I can remember you would have's fantastic scrub techs have done lots more hearts and I had time and they were there great onset of ALU but you just listen to them because they help you but it makes sense so when I first came in the practice of I was doing a lot of L2 lot ERCP's at medical city Plano :-) RCB is yes it's where it's it's called an endoscopic retrograde calendula pancreas talk big sculptors through the scope that you just go down like an endoscope and you go up into the liver and into the Pancras thank goodness it was fun at that time it was that Dr. my partner Dr. Goldschmidt and now we have Dr. Ackerman who are both experts in it so as it turns out it's a skill yeah but the more you do the better you get but is pretty funny because the ERCP team that was there you know I'm your new and you try to act like you know what you're doing and you like to know get me the jagged whatever and something else but you had a thousand hot water so I was always trust in this nurse had he has been there forever and he would hand me the stuff and he's hilarious is from the Philippines get a real call nature and so what you do is you get into the you get into the bile duct and you cut so you can pull stones out and do stuff like that and Moses said I no longer do ERCP skills we got better experts doing it but I'm doing it and I'm making this cut and I look over at Henny and I'm like that's that's good right knee goes I think you need a little bit more and know it in the just red blood everywhere you go Steph was too much but in the next hour trying to stop the bleeding sores like that run like yeah well you ask the experts are there for a reason people to specialize and thankfully they do give enough time to tackle this will I just want to bring up another interesting news stories uncovered were kind of all over the map here but a story just came out today a woman from Greenville South Carolina is suing Burger King because she claims that she was diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome after suffering symptoms since eating improperly cooked food at the restaurant she's asking for $330,000 for medical expenses missed work medication gas mileage as well as public embarrassment excessive weight loss and additional damages while all I mean a lot of different things to think of their I may not obviously probably most fast food I don't want to name Burger King specifically the probably most fast food is not the best kind of food to eat but I think most of us should know that I now what he think well what I think is really interesting to me is that we know that 20% of people that have a gastroenteritis no matter what the cause of right May not a big burger again maybe it was whatever the matter what the cause 20% of them will actually develop a disk motility meeting your intestines will not move very well allow bacteria to grow and then you suffer all the symptoms what is striking is she's been doing this for years was several years before that she said that this happened in she was then labeled as debt as irritable bowel that's lysine clinical the time literally all day long people, no I meant I was perfectly fine I traveled somewhere and I came back we talk about veterans there's a lot of people that when they do a tour someplace else they get sick select 20% of the Dr. Mark Pimentel I still think he's doing the study is doing a study on veterans a comeback and the burden of irritable bowel syndrome people get labeled is actually something fixable and that's how we develop ultra until summer in the story and I'm like I was poor woman just a doctrine to yeah ors I fax and depending on what type of bacteria is an ARM is going to call an audible here I think we had to move your study to that to the next half hour so we have enough time that takes me to another topic one of the places that actually carries her KB ending CBD had a question and she her name is Jacqueline up in Oklahoma and she was asking me what is the connection of why people may suffer insomnia and I'm I know you have talked about a couple different mechanisms mechanisms but also thought about another one I want to run this by you so whenever we have inflammation some a marker histamine right so histamine of courses is something that basically races whenever we have cutting abrasion we have in it an insult we can have history right this minicourse is one of those that works in awake center that keeps us awake so if we have chronic inflammation just like we were talking a while ago when you give someone Benadryl they don't necessarily need it you're blocking histamine they get tired if you have chronic inflammation you have this you have a meta-chemical messenger in your body that circulating that your body is producing being histamine making you stay awake and alert because technically your body thinks it's under distress needs to go and do something about it so until you can basically control and slow down inflammation and get some level of handle on that it would seem yet another natural reason why it would make sense to have a healthy Indo cannabinoids system to slow down the histamine response so the you don't have over information yet and I think it's it's that such is his remember the histamines be released by the mast cell right and that's part of a cascade of inflammatory markers there's all kinds Tina fell for aisle 12 mile 23 all these things were learning more and more about and last week was a little bit before we discussed how when you have leaky gut you can have leaky brain your blood brain barrier action becomes permeable to these inflammatory molecules these inflammatory molecules can then reside in the hippocampus which is your sleep center and you don't sleep well and then it becomes this horrible cycle which many Americans are actually a stress is a good thing acutely acutely rise your body adapts to chronic stress no that's really were talking about we just talked about the gentleman that was that the VA chronic pain chronic inflammation chronic stress that's that's the problem stressors are not bad at all when you work out to grow muscle you if you think hard and then you take of you know you rest and then your brain rearranges but I like the histamine example only because for some people that are new to learning why inflammation may be tied to their insomnia most people have at least either experience or had a close one experience taking something like Benadryl diphenhydramine and they get sleepy it's because you're blocking histamine but it think of the thought about that and I guess with your anesthesia training you certainly are much more knowledgeable about the depths of sleep and the stages of sleep and things like that because you have to make sure that somebody doesn't run away bad bad luck there is that's so funny you're going on this route this morning when I was working out I was listening to I listen to a podcast called health hacker members name but he had his guess today was a MD called Dale Broadus he wrote a book it's all about preventing Alzheimer's so Alzheimer's and dementia is becoming one of the leading causes of burden on the US and death and all the stuff she showed something which is really interesting bit typically in the US we start becoming ill around 40 restart in diagnosed with chronic illnesses in the UK it's around 50 so what he was saying is that we may be living long but are six times longer here which ultimately the longer your sick so if you have chronic diabetes if you have sleep issues if you have all the stuff you decrease BD NF which is a substance that cleans up your brain and what he saying it was it's a very interesting podcast is basically everything you said you need to fix your gut you need to sleep well need to protect your brain all those things that we always talk about because this is the burden it's going to happen if you don't do those things properly and he was talk about doing a like this cog not Skippy the colonoscopy to do a Cognos copy periodically you go in and you check different markers insulin levels hemoglobin A-1 C and things like that in a bunch of others but I thought it was just an interesting term I think your parents called us to be like that we don't think any of going in and having a colonoscopy because now it's normal for everybody at one time it wasn't we should be doing Cognos could be in trying to alter the course what interesting well it's a really cool idea especially if you could tie it back to what the cause was what causation was met with the that's exactly was talking about unfortunately you have pain I give you opioids let's go back to the root why do you have the pain man there is the music hey that was at its first hour of getting project episode 12 in the books like us and share on iTunes and on YouTube we will be back in just a moment this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated for food and fun we're spooning our town hall.com, there are downed trees and power lines homes and businesses damaged or destroyed after tornadoes right parts of Missouri overnight they capital Jefferson City was hard-hit often Thompson lives there and says his apartment complex suffered heavy damage through formal offices all look over the one billing that may save one story and I willingness to story this one going one story now my building my room every PC rocket windows blown out a tornado killed three people in Golden 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Trump says it will not end until House Democrats stop investigating him any hope that the president and congressional Democrats could work together on infrastructure has been shot down and Mr. Trump says ongoing house investigations are to blame you can't do it under these circumstances because the investigations phony and is refusing to negotiate policy until they're over and the presidents also upset that the speaker has accused him of engaging in a cover-up Greg Claxton the White House lawmakers in New York have given final approval to a bill it would allow president from state tax returns to be released to congressional committees that have so far been barred from getting the president's federal returns Josh sharply lower on Wall Street now down about 370 points loss of more than 1% the S&P is off 35 points Marley stories said town hall.com are you tired of high cable TV rates sign up for dish today and get a $500 bonus offer while supplies last loss locking your price for two years guaranteed call American dish you are dish authorized retailer now 800-570-6630 800-570-6630 – 800-570-6630 offers required by vocation 20 from early termination fee at the auto face friction supply call for details have you done it yet you catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror I'm I'm one of those people you don't want to see naked I yeah most of us but I mean you look and you're going to die I don't get whatever all its horrible stock Townsend and Brad Staggs to tell you about a different way to shed those pounds this is brand-new technically been around for a couple years or so it was based on research from the University of California that said there is a molecule called OEA that's found naturally in your body produces it in the Mediterranean diet that when taken in concentrated amounts it will actually make you feel fuller and boost your metabolism I lost about 10 pounds so far is an amazing Valley school company said we can take this to market to make this great product will help you it's called read you zone our IDU zone.com our IDU zone.com Brad's workers were comrades work for me countless other people go to read you zone.com and try today you're gonna love it read you zone.com remember that our IDU zone.com it looks like you're losing I am I losing weight I am losing my lost about 10 pounds how are you doing it funny name but I done it with review zone RAD use zone.com and the stuff works it's you get it all that the molecule this and that found in that all I can tell you is it it so it makes you feel full and he keeps your mind off of wanting to overeat and also boost your metabolism as your done and more guide try it today it's gonna work for you like his work for Brad and countless other people read you zone.com are IDUs zone.com all right we are now and to our number two of yet checked project so number 12 with your host Ken Brown I'm Eric Rager check egos at the door because nothing is off the table so we have a study that we promise are going to get to but I've got to remind everyone to like us on iTunes go to iTunes get check project is search for gut check project you'll find is there like us to take a screenshot email is that you did it@gutcheckproject.com through connect and once you do that you'll be entered into the contest where you will receive outrun teal and your preferred flavor of KB MD CBD and that we should call it the signature pack on the KPMG store that's that offers what I'm skewed hunt is more than $100 value as I stumble over my words easy for me to say goodness yes value over $100 and just go to gut check project.com hit us on connect tell us that use that you subscribe to to get your project on iTunes and you will be entered so also you want to just when is Dr. Brown puts it when no matter what go to love my tummy.com/Simoni get yourself a discount on the world's only NSF certified over-the-counter solution for bloating and abdominal discomfort packed with polyphenols but a lot of polyphenols in this box – especially one in your hand but I'll try and teal developed by a board-certified gastroenterologist who happens to be sitting across the table from me after until is NSF certified for sports or if you're an athlete and you need your daily polyphenols go to love my tummy.com/spoony and get your daily polyphenols to help with recovery and athletic performance band what is that dead the doctors name from the exit University about about well but well yeah she's got some excellent information on how Pro anthocyanins which of the polyphenols inside about trying to heal actually benefit athletes when taken at thousand milligrams a day so give the doctor it's basically four capsules about trying to predict correct yeah it's so for capsules due to the polyphenols as the antioxidant component I have a new article that were to talk about at some point where it actually looks because there's some confusion about I did talk to a PhD who is doing some research and said oh we no longer think polyphenols because of the pro-oxidant component to it meaning oh does it actually create a lobed of information as it turns out a new article came out the polyphenols are fasting mimetic molecule meaning you get the same effect as fasting which means you to have my toffee G autophagy cell renewal because the six cells go away that's the pro-oxidative effect but the antioxidative ones so once again it comes back mother nature just seems to do better it's really hard to take a concept in a petri dish and reproduced with humans yeah definitely so I'll try and he'll get some love my tummy.com/spoony so Dr. brass P00 and one save everybody's a winner yes so I don't run you were going two to address a PTSD article and I don't want to get cut short here so because we did last half hour ago and that you can stearate will I was little there but first I wanted to this is dangerous this is by no underlings in Chelsea this is a note kind of interesting I want to present a scenario you got me thinking about how you saw that guy in San Antonio with all the keys and he just walked up to the trash cow handout cameraman cameraman and you're trying to do a back story for likewise he otherwise indicates why you will regret it now I doing other things I want to tell you a story and then I want you to tell me the back story okay okay this is an NLP exercise whose Robert Seale Dany Michael Barnhouse stuff yeah signed neurolinguistic programming and what that is certain words or certain sounds are certain memories will create emotions around this time okay I just want to back so I just want to know what's actual happen you sitting there and out of nowhere a woman runs up to another woman and slaps her that's it tell me what happened to me why Tillie what's going on with that scenario well I can't believe you don't remember because the woman that was sitting there had basically commandeered the other woman's vehicle from Walmart and had parked it in the wrong spot and it was totally and the woman came in and did the slapping told her that he I think you forget the you were on a boat in Africa oh that slapping yeah yes that slapping incident yet that was the woman who was supposed to fed the lions but because she didn't the woman he came in and slapped her family was bit by few liens and that she was upset that since the one who just sitting there didn't feed them she basically allowed the lines to go hungry and they went after humans wow that so it's because somebody did not do their job properly and that affected her so she was slapping her out of revenge he has a sad day that everybody was okay but you know it's it was very scary interesting nice boat ride out thinking I would I do remember that so that that is your take if you ask a bunch of people gotten you get all different kinds of sorrows yours interesting with the with the.feeding the lion of the lining to the people that's convinced but yours is a story of basically it's of violence right what really happened is that you are on a boat in Africa a mosquito landed on the cheek and she went over and killed the mosquito because that is a malaria infested area and she saved her life it wasn't a violent act she was actually protecting that woman so there's two things of this number one the neurolinguistic programming your prior history of anything like that filled in the gaps right if you're in that area and you witness that you probably think old the woman will save the woman's life sure because we can't have the mosquitoes passing malaria anyway you told it out I immediately place them into an adversarial role between each other no doubt I was doing a NLP lecture which is with this came up and the guy actually open the lecture with that just I just for listeners I had no idea what he was going to tell me to step down, that you just left field which is all about that leads into something super super cool okay so today the story came out about malaria I and for the first time ever a vaccine is been developed okay so were sitting here were like malaria whatever malaria affects nearly half the world's population and a new vaccine may be able to actually stop us and save millions of lives and malaria is one of the reasons why certain countries can't get out of economic crisis because it kill so many people kill so many kids it's super scary I didn't mean one site and I was thinking about it because the NLP story exactly that with the guy said in the lecture by and then I read this article malaria no like others fits perfect and your data into your hammer man story malaria really is humanity's curse we don't think about it in the US but it kill so many people in fact when you look at the world's dangerous animals like always but homes yes mosquitoes only one yeah mosquito rains me they kill more people because of malaria then every other thing that's out there job and about volunteerism when people go to Africa and they you can take I think it's an antimalarial pill I don't know about it but I know that you basically stock up on it and then you take it and then you go and then one of the most important pieces of equipment is the mosquito nets around where you sleep so that you don't get malaria but before you get really deep in their always wondered of taking care of the few young kiddos who had sickle-cell anemia here stateside and usually not not a good situation and but that being said if sickle cell anemia they think was an adaptation mutation so that humans could survive that's an exposure to malaria epigenetic thing where you're at in the environment your genes turned on so that if if you have sickle cell I wondered is the survival from malaria it does do that offset like if if those same kids were exposed to true malaria with that allow me to have a never and never quite figured out why the adaptation is so beneficial because in most cases not every case but in most cases the lifespan is rather short do you know what is really cool is if you get an international infectious disease doctor start asking questions like that it's really wild especially if they get an epidemiology background as well right so you got an ID that deals with stuff like that and they can explain that's a little bit out of the scope of my medical practice not interesting thought but it's fast and because this up I guess in Africa a child dies every two minutes from malaria no idea 400,000 people a year let me say this again 400,000 people a year from malaria that's amazing I mean this is insane they believe that half of all deaths since the Stone Age can be attributed to malaria half since the stone ain't half yeah because it's just ubiquitous so finally go ax goes SmithKline with the support of Bill and Melinda Gates foundation and others including the World Health Organization they got together with the global vaccine alliance it took 32 years of research cost more than $700 million and they finally just released this vaccine are about ready to release his vaccine trials and showing it to be about 40% effective about it's effective is the influenza vaccine that we have but still a massive step in the right direction absolutely incredible this just came out today fascinating this could if you could get rid of malaria this could change the economic scope of Africa yeah because it's it's that deadly it's that I'm 400,000 a year that's Craig said I never thought about until I read this that I realize it took $700 million to develop this thank goodness for fantastic people you know like but Bill and Melinda Gates the puts together and whoever else is involved in the foundation knowing Larry works basically destroying red blood cells right back I just now remembered this a friend of mine it to friends my cherry mom they John and and Brian their mom when we were younger had traveled out of the country she got malaria will she came back and she was she was yellow head grade, great eyes on her on her face in it she was sick for a while but but that that's basically have to become jaundiced right and red blood cells become damages hoping that you can finally produce some new ones to overcome it is a wild time for sure and she still just wanted to do that but you imagine a child that is very young infant nourishment's kinda hard to get out because of its… Super exciting and we have to think globally we can't you know you can't just all malaria doesn't affect me in the 4000 people no globally this is a huge interesting step in the right direction campaign of Joe and what I would hit to their generations Tuesday try to take knowledge on Donnie just keep losing kids just be really really difficult so I just thought was interesting with the NOP slap in the face now whenever you see a woman run up and slap in a little really good for her she's killing a mosquito look at those friends she just saved her life everything on world stars as people being friends thought is that's that's the way it should be another little way" someone just sent me I don't need it to be easier just wanted to be worth it get this vaccine is not easy hopefully it's worth it yeah that's where he's old and more straightforward and some of his other poetica I think it adventurous and somewhat scissor peas on will be writing the actual leaning on Lee that's it I I have to get to this article because like the second week in a row bear with me it's a little deep but it's can make a ton of sense here so an article came out in the Journal of chemical neuroanatomy the title is emerging evidence for the antidepressant effect of cannabidiol and the underlying molecular mechanism Was the first time in articles actually been done with her looking at how possibly CDD can actually work in depression so there's a little background little tight about the actual study one of the problems that you know I run into I'm a big fan of CBD cannabidiol web try to do research on it is there's just too much information and there's not enough human trials matches a lot of trials out there you just have to know where to look and a lot of people make claims is not a claim when you can have something that shows what it does that all you doing is describing the mechanism that's what this is so real look at this is actually it's a joint collaboration with some Brazilian doctors in Denmark doctors be of the background the World Health Organization estimates that depression affects 322 million people there's a lifetime prevalence of 20% of depression yeah it is the leading cause of disability worldwide and increases the risk of all cause mortality and life expectancy it's been estimated that it costs around economic losses globally is $1 trillion every year and productivity due to depression and anxiety if we could figure out how to treat it it would result in an economic gain of $230 billion annually amazing why why what are we waiting on right interesting here's the problem there are treatments Alta you don't I see commercial formal talk I do the people with the they look really happy and then they sit there in the running to the field are like general wash 14 may cause depression anxiety to talk to Dr. Butler failures rashes due to malaria whatever the run through all those side effects will the problem is that there only about 40% effective these are known as the whole class is known as SSRIs significant side effects and some of these main side effect people like weight gain increased risk of suicide a bunch for the think it can take up to six weeks to work so we do have treatment but really it's not the best treatment and I think that we throw these drugs that people that's kind of what we're talking about the last half-hour if we could fix the underlying cause would we be able to not put Band-Aids on this kind of stuff SSRIs work by their called serotonin selected selective reuptake inhibitors SSRIs so basically you block your body's ability to reabsorb serotonin so you have more serotonin which is your happiness molecule dopamine is your pleasure molecule serotonin is there to help you with that so now what's a link that to what actually causes depression it has been shown that stress including childhood stress is a major factor predisposing people to depression if you have a 20% chance of doing this that could be that you went through some traumatic events that you have not quite resolved and show up and that maybe one of the causes so for years certain animal models have been looked at to actually look at some of the stuff one of the reasons why these prescription meds do work on some people's it does increase serotonin and in original animal models it showed that when you made them depressed or anxious and you gave them these SSRIs they improved everything starts with animal studies remember that chair so these drugs came from somewhere site one of the things they were able to show is that your BD NF brain derived neurotrophic factor which is the molecule that cleans up the brain actually goes up a little bit when you do this as well so you're familiar with the drug called ketamine right now is that so can others be clear not recreationally I have used it in the anesthesia setting but yeah at straight straight straight known as is ketamine hey special K PCP support that it the action is not fully understood but here's what does happen it does appear to work on multiple targets in the brain including the serotonin receptors and has been shown that one large dose can actually reverse depression and have a lasting effect which is why I've got friends or try to open up ketamine clinics you did you in your press you get a big dose and walk out I got a friend that works with a psychiatrist with a do the compulsive shock therapy yeah ECTs yes he takes at our the answers elders will put them to sleep and do that so Mechanics are popping up because of this now moving on let's talk about why the articles looking at CBD Cannabidiol brand-new everybody start to discover it it's not new they are long as when people have Chinese medicine is been using it since one rough guess no probably I would just go with the age of China 45,000 years ago 2700 BC hello all you yeah so that's that's hilarious it's been it's been used medicinally for basically the dawn of dollar civilization and the fund will just pass now people are looking more at CBD okay so a study in 2008 showed that CBD much like ketamine can work on different neural receptors occluding serotonin nice this is the first time that this kind of stuff is ever actually been talked about it is been shown in studies to help with psychosis depression and anxiety now what super unique about this article is that it goes deep into how and the Y as to how these different things happen so the first time that the doctor looked at the molecular basis so what they did show is that CBD actually blocks the degradation of our own endo- cannabinoid in the end of my we can get into that some other time share were to talk about that but there's an enzyme you know the enzyme FAA HF A8 H that locksets we do know that CBD at least increases our own Ananda my level friend what these guys did is that they showed that CBD can directly bind to five HT one otherwise known as your serotonin receptor so the SSRIs prevent your body from absorbing it CBD appears that a connector just buying two and create the response that we are not depleting your your serotonin stores main reason there's a lot of problem with that that's that's in part why I don't know where they'd where the danger zone is with SSRIs is because of what it's doing to serotonin production from the from the neuron exactly and it got me thinking that you could even like if you know there's different drugs like ecstasy or Molly whatever they call that she dumps all of your serotonin right yeah and then then your complete depleted in plain or super depressed the next day they are worn out and thirsty yeah. It really it's all that stuff you're exactly right and it's and its its chemical warfare honestly so moving on Titus altogether I I'll bring it all together here shortly so these guys the same guys that did that study 2008 shown 2009 that by inducing stress in certain animals they showed that their serotonin went down they became depressed and for the first time ever they show that in randomized levels decreased while we know that when you experience stress your FAA H goes upright as and so that's outcome chronic stress is a bad thing so Ananda might appears to be a stress coping molecule what they were able to prove is that consistently administration of CBD increase serotonin and an alibi levels reversing in the depression in these animals what is absolutely wild is the fact that it was also fast acting which means we know that if it's gonna bind to or prevent FAA age for your getting rid of an antibody we always thought that would take time to build it up you can actually bind fairly quickly to the serotonin receptors they were showing within 20 minutes that once it's in the bloodstream and gets cross the blood brain barrier it can actually do that they are actually comparing it to ketamine and how it works in different areas yeah super interesting alright so you're the argument that everybody will say is well let's animals and so yes I try to look for some human trials looking at this I did find in 2018 that they look to the study were 400 people were using CBD for mood improvement and 250 of those 400 felt that it worked very good only problem with that study is like all things without looking at big cohorts like that very tough to determine if any of them were actually using THC in addition with it because CBD up until just recently has been equally difficult to get sure as you would with no just didn't standard marijuana fence probably easier to center marijuana than have Drive CBD but you said 2/5400 that's roughly what 6263% that's better than the 40% that you mentioned earlier for the SSRI in the first place definitely so this article does show that conceptually CBD can act quick hit more receptors than traditional drugs that actually have side effects oh they took a small segment of mice of the same group of mice they induced depression on and they gave them Prozac or the original SSRIs it turns out that the serotonin exponentially went up while so an argument that is always been said is what we know what CBD is going to do when exposed to other medications before we do know that it affects the P4 50 enzymes so that people of all he said will yet be careful but a lot of things do it's like eating grapefruit every day is going affect our heroes… So they actually give them Prozac as it turns out that the serotonin exponentially went up that actually work better together so when you gave these mice and start them on Prozac and CBD maybe that should be a protocol because it will take 4 to 6 weeks to start working maybe will have a higher outcome we can do that so don't be surprised if the next drug will come out little have some funny name on it will be an SSRI and it'll say like everything else is now now was CBD yeah but what a cool take away mean that they do offer inanimate you should feel pretty confident that if you're one of the many that suffer from depression there is absolutely no shame in that whatsoever a lot of people do but maybe you could augment your your improvement by taking CBD today KB MD CVD so happens that we we talk about it because we know little bit about so it's not fun no claims citing a study just setting studying really cool though everything about this and is what we always try to do we try to bridge the gap between ghetto traditional medicine and functional solutions I think this article, shows that's pretty deep signs the article I apologize if I lost people on there but I found it pretty interesting but I had to get there somehow we got one half-hour left couple of funny little things to come to look at and met maybe not quite as fun as we think that we will see you here in just a moment get check project episode 12 back in about four if you are trying to quit drinking or doing too many drugs listen to me you don't know me and will never meet I had a problem like you want I drank and used a party a little too much till it got out of control and almost ruined my life I realize I needed help to fix my problem before it totally destroyed me if you tried to fix your drinking and drug problem and you know you can't do it alone you need to call the national treatment advisors they'll immerse you into a 30 day program to replace your old habits with new habits and totally change your life and if you have PPO private health insurance the entire program may be covered fix your problem right now before it gets any worse get clean call now and learn more 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 fast-track student loans can get your student loans out of the 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save money on our 2008 can I probably really fits what we do yet is really there so I can't I got I have a small confession so K BMD health.com is where you are launching basically to expand beyond the clinic and you have been not as long as I know you been working to basically build the bridge between natural medical science he can hand in the last half hour that is basically where you want to put the best and most applicable benefit beneficial information from what medicine can do in natural approaches so that you don't have to stay stuck we willing to get to the cause and see what we can do to help well@kpmghealth.com we have a store and on that store we offer KB in the CBD way of course we offer are trying to heal glad of the things they're appropriate we have success them in the clinic we had a funny issue that happened with our credit card processor and it was funny at all it is it's interesting and the ever-changing world of CBD and the economics around it have made our processor that we've been using somewhat limited because the underwriting bank is canna changing some rules on there so we've had I mean it's it's over 100 people who had to get transactions and we've had to mainly punch in the card because they're using credit and debit card combos for what ever reason in our processor does know why the bank did it better stop doing that all that to say this your mom is one of those letters wondering where you were going yeah yet you your mom was and she was really really cool she's she's funny I emailed her and I said he we can take care this just all entered manually will get out to you and she communicated to you that I still receive a product but I don't see a charge and visit with your mom again last night and what is interesting I didn't do anything different and then out of nowhere today she said good morning Eric my credit card paid today for the order form from a few days ago I went to a specialty store I notified Ken I hope to get all soon it is well like the most Eric you're getting better better processing the credit card unity I'm getting better. Getting better and it lets me know something that I've heard a few times along the way and for all of you that do keep up with with gut check KPD health in and visit with John Teal etc. thank you for keeping up with us more often than not as we try to build the store I get a lot of comments like hey that looks really good for an anesthesia provider so basically as we try to build the store just please be patient we are working really hard to get that some some better experts in there to help us elevated but just know that we put on fraud protection so we don't have any fried we just don't have was on transactions at all sometimes I think it's both you and I everybody that jumped on board without trying to even my group right now launching this health box I think that it's living in your comfort zone you don't really grow you have to be willing to fail a little bit and yes we will do walk out there and learn and pivot and keep getting better and pivot get better and until eventually you're really good at what you do so including this show yeah definitely to show why I have a topic that I ran across just yesterday's article written by a authored by the name of Evan Horwitz and he basically started out the first line is raised to people are getting dumber and that's not a judgment it's a global fact this radio is next in a host of leading nations so he's talking about developed countries God developing country and a host of leading nations IQ scores have started to decline so visiting countries that have everything developed developed developing the developed have are considered to be the the global leaders of of of our world that IQ the intelligence quotient is now apparently in a decline in its detectable so there's lots of different things they begin to go through in here which is why and I'm kind curious before we touch on them or what they may reference what you think we think some of the reasons may be where what why would a developed country that has everything they could possibly want other countries that are battling malaria aspire to be more like these countries that are leading the world why would the IQ begin to go down Elise recently well I'm do I go with the standard here diet distraction meeting people on the phone remember that if you're looking at your phone when you're going to bed your brain is not ready to sleep you just woken your brain backup you need to be off looking at blue light do have and that that the night screen from like 6 o'clock on so that you can get some sleep I think that we are in we are in a situation where were inundated were making ourselves stressed were doing all these things that lead to the same thing we always say chronic inflammation was chronic inflammation due to chronic inflammation increases cortisol increases insulin resistance ultimately affects the brain so I think that it's a combination of all of that I couldn't agree more I do I do believe that those environmental factors from the food from debate about the noise we had a stew I came exactly I was talking about it had to do whenever we had the flight issue and we had to make the had the landing in Des Moines but we talked about engine noise basically changes the way you perceive the taste of food and foods that are more nutritious for you can actually not taste as good see don't find it nearly as savory or tasting you don't eat them so you end up at turning towards towards salty foods numbers yet I was the airplane one that Yorkshire brought that article and a few episodes ago yeah so what if just outside the studio is allowed Highway and you and I were trying to talk to judges getting out the car you can't do it to you walk through the door if you live in an urban environment and the more the population increases that's going happen and if you're in a developed country highways just like this are somewhat normal in certain areas so that would at least play a part you don't Matthew Walker is a sleep expert and he just came out with his book he addresses this where he says it has not been proven yet but if you live in a very dense urban area which he described if you look at it could be low socioeconomic but the reality is it doesn't have to be low social economic and BE anywhere with you it's a densely populated that noise level heat he's his research is now converting that that you not getting into the deep sleep right in a certain stages which then allows the beta amyloid to increase which then can lead to Alzheimer's and all that so yeah everything you're saying about this sounds like word do it to ourselves almost to some people trying to attribute it and I like the way they counted debunk that some people trying to say that developed countries may have IQ going down because of immigration maybe people are moving into a a yet another country from from a lesser country or from a developing country and then their part of the aggregate of the average and they're bringing you damp is it but a 2018 study from Norway essentially shouted if that's not true at all because the intelligence quotient begins to go down even in high IQ parents and then there their kids and some of the things that they said were environmental factors are a collection of factors but one of them and whenever earlier you said acute stress is something in us throughout that thought exercises are also also something there that are necessary you have to have something stimulating in your life for you to have an appreciation in a course for your cognition to keep increasing right you have to have something that ties in and basically gives you a brain exercise so no I was just going to say that okay so this was that was off the study were were there saying that you continually have to work your brain for the same if you if you don't mean you have all those luminosity and you got those apps that are trying to gamble to do stuff like that will to do so do go in whatever anything you know they have shown that if you continue to be an alert trailer language or do something that probably increases the neural plasticity when you stop and think I was on the way over hills us and into the NPR and they were discussing genius and they were dated a guy that was discussing the Mozart@okay will he's a genius or maybe genetically she was born with four aces right off the bat and but when they looked at his work it wasn't like a lightning bolt that all of a sudden he's writing a symphony does it is the connection of these neurons that collectively can become a bigger idea yes but as you continue to do that you need to work your brain so that these little highways find new ways to get around and do that when you have dementia looks at all times dimension you have these plaques just block some and it blocks him a lot in the hippocampus so that it affects your sleep what happens in your sleep gets messed up you produce more of these plaques so keep in your brain move in with all that that's interesting you know we just don't know which ones I mean I don't think it unloads your study talk about what we know now it doesn't it's it's it's kind of superficial but I like the way they cannot paint a picture in here because they talk about one leading explanation is the rise of lower skill service jobs they don't inquire much intellectual demand in essence the happiest okay I got a backup we've talked about as we as we tried to build KPMG what ends up having even over daughter until what happens to keep employees are future employees happy you want them to have some type of of the bond with the emotional success of the company ND has going to do this with their employees as well as I do that the health box right so you give them some incentive to be a part of it and then people begin to use critical skill to do or carry out the job right but if you relegate someone to a I need you to just be here from 9 to 5 or whatever else it is that begins to come and just be it's just something to their checking into their not really doing anything they have no ownership of the development of it and it begins to kinda weave into where is where is AI a smart idea and where is it taking away so much of our cortical responsibility that it's making is not happy because there's no achievement and then and we can we can go to any of these avenues but another thing to think about I'm guilty of this as well once I get a smart phone I don't really have to go back and find an encyclopedia or move to the reference of the encyclopedia used to do that I simply kind of outsource some of my memory and some of the intelligence that I was trying to compound before and not symptoms only question I would look in you Google will doing that is you you can't outsourced it so your brain sufficient it just knows that that's what you're going to do so the carrying assembly wrote an article about this with the maps oh yeah basically we would we let ways or we let Google maps drive us where we need to go the left appeared were not using any critical thought now and before that was a critical thought were you had to remember where to go you had to connect different things which is why travel is something that actually still stimulate your brain when you try to find that when you have that just go I'm sure getting smarter in other ways like like right now when you said that it's real important for employees to not have a mundane job sure you want to make sure that Diana misery Adil Megan you are very appreciated yes you very much my patients love you thank you for holding down the fort while were over here if all the technicians had to Preston Crossing who busted every day all the nurses that mean thank you FCC Jenny Jordan and it's NATO I think that like like all of us do we all get really busy and we all have the agenda but you know the ultimate agenda is were all here to serve people and help other people so sometimes it gets forgotten but that is the purpose so I hope that you are not having a Monday and boring day to all the employees at Preston Crossing at my office a D yeah and entered the office it did it KBS as well it but it does it mean I think that what the actionable item that I see you could do here if you're a parent just be sure that your kids take a little time away from the phone if they have one don't is you know when we were younger your parents always said don't don't sit in front of the TV all day in the course just because you just you just absorbing whatever they're putting out there's not a lot of thought and enjoying television is nothing wrong with being stimulated little bit but candidate all day and and just engaging in an exercise if you want to make certain that somebody is starting to develop enjoyment in and find a quality of life that they are there happy and that their IQ is on the rise you have to engage in activities are going to force you to think and some elements to force you think a movie can't move without thinking so all that stuff I think is is is rather important to make sure that when we talk about CBD we talk about eating correctly the dearest it's not one thing fixes all you have to think back to how your body wants to operate and you got engage in activities going to force you to do that so this Matthew Walker that about him he referenced the study where they they took mice and they put these of electrodes on the on the brain rash I think that they may even have actually had them like surgically implanted and they could show that when there was electrical impulse in the brain it made a sound and it would be like okay and they could have different different sound levels and what they did is they let these mice and rats I think they were to learn amaze and then when they were done doing that day something very shocking happened you know he's a sleep expert so they're trying to study the effect of sleep and memory and things like that when the mice went into REM sleep that increased about a hundredfold while so basically what they learned was being imprinted into memory while they slept so all their their day's experiences were now being the catalog days experiences were now being catalogued and so he talks about how you need deep sleep to let the body recover you need REM sleep to let the brain recover both of them one becomes a short-term memory one becomes a long-term memory need that you need to mix there's no easy way to do super complex but that was fascinating because if you're not doing that when you go to sleep you if you learn something you have to sleep staying up all night trying to study or studying and then look at your phone and filling your brain full of other information provided to be that purpose also the last thing you get done let your brain soak it up put it in.put it in the hard drive it's that is super interesting especially since looking at your phone because what is it that that's taking away from you so you got everyone's heard about the complaints of social media and it's not the worst thing ever mean obviously we we use it to help spread the word on it on a bunch of different levels but it's like anything you had to responsibly utilize social media if you doing every day you find yourself in the middle and night that that's that's what you're you're clinging to your your essentially looking for a dopaminergic response or something that's going to give you pleasure right and it is set yet yeah I want to do so okay and your you're leading into something else I'm going to surprise you with all that is about selfies at the very beginning of the show you mentioned was whatever you're going so here's was kind of funny you and I basely came in with our own agenda wouldn't tell each other what I'm gonna do now so I heard you say self and the like where she can bring up self it's gotta be this I'm so glad you did that so it's it's really interesting because so if you're going to take on a task and requires an element of focus there a study that was released about the dangers of selfies got me thinking because it said that there's been over 250 selfie deaths since 2011 so is less document itself a deathlike document is also known as a weight Wikipedia itself has a has a list of them you can look up all kinds they have everything from people who were just hurt you'll hurt badly and to those who unfortunately were killed and there's a but I mean it's it's everything from standing next to Cliff there is I think she was Chinese it was a poor woman who is known for climbing these 10,000 foot peaks and cheap she slipped and she fell now mean it's us and it's it's putting yourself in a precarious position what you're doing is the breaking down signs of why you're doing it though why what puts it there and a lot of it was based on your brain can only truly focus on main task and everything else is subtask in the other things had to be ignored for the execution of the main task and it's weird when you put so much of it in a small electronic component this is your focus is in terms you basically lose the contact with everything around you which is why it at dinner we don't allow our phones to come out at all for any reason we're going to engage as a family we go on vacation it's almost completely no cell phones because where they are to enjoy our time together is also very there's just no reason to have a couple of photos sure put them away because I love my family I want to see them and I don't need to do it and and in a memory through through here but the weird thing that happened whenever I was reading that is just what people were were willing to do they would see or evaluate those who survive some hard falls is seen evaluate with a but they just fallen from what they how they were injured and they recognize the danger before they did but then began to think of the the joy they would get from people liking their photo and they wanted to amaze the virtual audience and then suddenly you look at the danger they went there they just completely began to ignore the damage that was around that's the so this this gets back into the the whole concept of dopamine and serotonin serotonin dopamine usually counterbalance each other so it's really hard to keep her serotonin perpetually up when you get a big spike in dopamine right so that's the rockstar phenomenon so no sex gambling drugs alcohol and now they're showing that the social media likes actually give you little spikes of dopamine right so these people are out there and the like are willing to risk your letter realize that the risk in their life there there chasing that dopamine spike when you said don't realize sorry you're exactly right they are chasing the dopamine spike in some of those seeking that same dopamine spine the numbers that aren't included here are the people who have unfortunately died while doing selfies while driving they don't count those because those artificially vehicular fatalities so they get counted in a different it's distracted driving but there's it's well more than 250 since 2011 when you take into account that there some other things or other activities don't get to be classified as that because it's more of a hazard in the column are that other category that they gave it but that brings me to some crazy stats and kind curious if you can figure this out the top four countries top four countries to experience selfie deaths since 2011 anything there Russia yes number two Israel owes us is because I see some crazy YouTube footage like my quizzical look at this like holy cow Karen has discovered Reddit going on here that's exactly what's going on but it's a rush I want to go with Will the US is gotta be up the number three number three really not number one on number one, Trump that is number one nano Job let me think of the ferment hold on I want to go with Brazil no in fact I think they are in the top 10 that wasn't what was highlighted as the top or they didn't give a ranking that is honorable last gases can be friends now what is it is number one India really yeah well I guess just by populace relational mission you got a probably should use my IQ is going down yeah yeah hello to my I was going to do it right it even think about populated places I was trying to think about where people would consider themselves.I was trying to think of beauty places and places where people would want to take more pictures out and I'm not much of so they can make sense though because that region is as really in the last 15 maybe even 25 years really got glommed onto La technology bases and we have lots of the IT is is farmed out over to India in that region so they get Regent waiting for us Kelby China than I thought of the child also – Pakistan oh the China and Brazil are also in the top 10 and it makes enemy just purely iPhone or our smart phone usage and selfies etc. but you go to Japan there's they had they had pictures and they are also of different examples of how people have tried to stave off some of the selfie debts go to the illegal being subways in in Japan or most of them to have but celery sticks to be using a selfie stick the same time because people would lean up close to where the train was coming and were sucked away the bag of the passage of the train or something else like that but yeah so selfie sticks are illegal they are in a course at some some by nature areas is people who fallen off of the certain rams of the Grand Canyon 11 John was actually killed in in the UK holding his selfie stick out in a storm and lighting strolled like the instructor's office to straight to the Sara Lee is crazy right but just think of what happens when your pleasure center is coming basically from an electronic device it's all you can almost see that it's not all already there fault to some degree because look when you look at the studies and I tell you that that there has been shown that you get this dopamine spike essentially what you're doing is you're giving your safe 12 1314-year-old keys to the liquor cabinet to say this is how you start hoping because what that ends up being is a it's it becomes a natural trigger what were we talking about we are taught about addiction and stuff were talking about who was it about how rats a rat will actually if you give a cocaine it'll die because it'll choose not to eat ever right because of the dopamine response right there you know when you just get that that hit that norepinephrine also and in that case so it's these are chemical things of action going on and get out when people they go through withdrawal like when you try and say it's just like sugar does a little bit of it also wouldn't people of high sugar diets you get them off people can have these symptoms of depression anxiety withdrawal because member what I said your dopamine is constantly going up like this your serotonin will just slowly come down and serotonin is what makes you happy dopamine is pleasure which is cool that pleasure and let it bounce up and down but when you're constantly triggering that that's one that's when you with these issues so it's almost like if you're really doing that and you know you could just set yourself up for depression yeah that's a sad thing happens to with with people who battle. The overeating can is gracious Tricia Tricia Tricia Nell Sylvia yeah when she talked heal your hungers her book and cheat sheet talk specifically about how unfortunately those folks who get into overrating a lot of times it's a dopaminergic response because they're there eating because that's that's where the pleasures coming from and it in it it's a vicious cycle and so different with Celtic in other words this is just yet one more thing to be sure that your well-rounded that you getting exposed to a lots of different avenues that they can today give any advice on how to improve your life in that article it was just more of a halo 20 people know it wasn't necessarily it's about how many people did this that of the other but it was stories about how they got there and then what the, the fallout was it wasn't necessarily which really just be careful like taking selfies I mean that's that's ultimately the first thing you don't want to die taken selfie but same time you know it's it's it just is just a crazy compilation of stories because it's almost not believable until you read the stories in my gosh that happened and and it's really easy to sit dismiss it say well they were to take itself but think about this isn't something that people were dying from before it's not like an epidemic but I mean it's it's different what we know we always would only have referenced a couple times that free solo movie and then they did that to MRI on him and they showed that his amygdala right is actually smaller or didn't have much activity there so for him to get any feeling he basically has to climb the oldest giant mountain with with the fit with the with no safety equipment on that you start doing that can require a little bit more it's time to do to get that dopaminergic response so no time like she really hundred likes
use a smart phone take a break I can't believe were down 20 seconds this that was episode 12 that was yet checked topic talking will have how words always resulted a lot on this one is good with KPMG health.com love my Tammy/spoony don't forget to like catch a project on iTunes and YouTube shoot us an email I got check project.com can also this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun we're spooning hi I'm Jay Ferner CO Quicken loans 30% of Americans who are planning home improvement of $5000 or more will pay for those renovations with a high interest credit card that may not be a great idea a better idea may be to take cash out of your home with the Quicken loans 30 year fixed rate mortgage the rate today in our 30 year fixed-rate mortgage is 3.99% APR 4.08% call us today at 800 Quicken or go to rocket mortgage.com rates of exchange 1.25% B receive it is not real the consecration interventions because when it likens nobody six and 133 and no and had from dad save money on car insurance when you bundle home and auto with progressive businesses where did you get this I'm talking to you with the hair yeah where did you get this good stuff so that's not the near that solid stuff progressive can't save you from becoming your parents but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto progressive casualty insurance 70 affiliates and other insurers discuss not available in all states or situations
Ric Moore was a photographer at Playboy Magazine for over 20 years. His skills allowed him to be a part of the first ever rock concert for in the former Soviet Union in 1987. Ric has always followed his heart to find interesting career choices for himself from teaching at Oklahoma University, Playboy Photographer, student pilot and owner of his own plane, student of improv and stand-up comedy, and now a proprietor of a dispensary (RedBub Medical MJ) in the OKC area after learning the benefits of medical THC and CBD.
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Nancy husband and wife may kiss the bride connectivity care whenever you need video chatting with the doctor right from your phone so I don't need stitches thank you Dr. United healthcare health plan benefits may vary well good check project with your host Dr. Ken Brown hi Eric regularly had Jeff Collins on the board Chef Patrick somewhere back there in the booth and here at the GCP we all check our ego at the door and nothing is off the table it now episode 11 can I do today episode 11 I think if we ever use that model of nothing is off the table today show is really going to demonstrate that I think were to go all over the place today then no joke I really hope that the audience has been growing the emails that keep coming in and what they see today is that we know we would talk science talk health they were taught a lot of fun we that we had some great shows about charity getting back feeling better today it's, laughter is the best medicine yes so this is our guest today it's super interesting guy before we even begin talking about that I want to have a riddle for you a riddle riddle okay I do you know what a Playboy photographer the grounded pilot comedian and medical marijuana all having, they are hard to major in there are hard major in but that's not the answer okay I don't know what the answer is yes Rick Moore is going to solve the riddle for nice nice he brings back and brings all that together take schedule around the nuked a new marker that we gave in the the Josh of some trades instead of the jack of all trades show the Josh of some trades he is is mediocre at everything that's awesome if you want to be entertained today to be a great show Rick Moore brings well he brings lot energy he's got some fantastic stories and well I think will be will be captivated I hope that we stay on top but what's awesome is that a guy like this she's been watching several shows and he has expense with stem cell yes she got his pilot's license and we got a pilot on events then select but on then of course Rick is now actually the owner of Redbud medical MJ in Oklahoma City just opened it and like a true entrepreneur that is doing things he just jumped in with both feet and said sure I'll get my license I need a girl license to get a grow license and now he's got this dispensary called Redbud medical MJ and what's amazing about it is he actually is the first dispensary to be carrying my baby up front you and our CBD KPMG health CVD the only physician recommended CBD available right now amazing and Rick is already a mighty big fan a rec.to what this kind can experience I feel like that I kind of already know not him so much because of the journey of doing just a bunch of different things it's kinda cool to meet somebody else who's like by doing this and now like doing that because it's it's a lot of fun there's not a whole lot of is not a whole lot of podcast or broadcasting training in anesthesia school yet and I saw him walk in with a big cup of coffee so you want to listen to the rest of the show because what we ADD people are severely caffeinated something function happily, hey I J I am ready for erected to join us here and hit the bottom of the hour but first I Screwed up last week we start up the show by saying that we were going to develop a contest and yes Martha Karen James several others I get your email we didn't make good on the contest there were going to create so were going to do at this time but I love the fact we had people email to maybe just email trick in the comfort of the Contessa so here it's we thought about it delight when hundred dollars hundred dollars that's very important I love doing things when and when it takes very little effort in this is all that you have to do so here's our contest step one gut check project go to YouTube search gut check project you'll find our channel deal you'll see little blue microphone says KPMG on the top so go to YouTube go to the gut check project channel step two subscribe subscribe to the gut check project all that does it doesn't cost you thing it basically just means every time we have a new episode and publishes it goes into your YouTube account you always be made aware hey there's an episode here that you may want to check out step three just take a screenshot whether you do with your phone over the do with your computer just take a screenshot and save it somewhere you hang onto it and I'll get to that here in just a moment so step number four you just go to get check project.com you click connect send us a message and I made a little drop down that says I subscribe to GCP that's all you have to do send us a message say hi say hello love the show whatever you wish to do and then you send that message so alright so that what step step five below what we are five steps of five step five steps to win step five just repeat that same sequence with iTunes so you get you to you got iTunes you just can subscribe to the gut check project on both of those sent as an email saying that you didn't and that at the end of June to randomly select five winners five winners five winners they will all receive the fantastic newly released only physician recommended branded CBD KB MD CBD whether you want natural flavor or sentiment doesn't matter what's the going value of that retina MSR money is actually $89 we have it for 79 but they get it for free just stop there my excluded from entering this does this sound like a really good thing you've Artie subscribed event but he simply just subscribe and then you're already entered to win E and you get to tell us do you want natural or sentiment and then that's one month supply one supply right there and then you also get a one month supply about Sean Teal packaged sent to you just are saying thanks and don't stop there you want to enter a few more times have your kids do the same thing have your spouse your friends your parents whomever just have them subscribe to gut check project channel on YouTube and iTunes go and sin is a message through such a project.com you'll see connect send us a message and then once we have all of those we can't wait to welcome our new and growing family to the gut check project I love that I think it sounds like a great thing so for us ADD people let's walk to the five-step superquick Subic number one what is go to YouTube and tried to get check project channel number two what is subscribe number three take a screenshot with your phone or computer number four go to gut check project.com click connect and send us a message that says I subscribed and number five repeat the same steps as iTunes why you have to say that picture is if we select your name were just going to send you message and say hey you one since you picture send that picture you got and that's it and share with everybody share with anyone so there's probably people out there that know one or the other trying to lure CBD limited white super important have both at the same time we found out that the polyphenols and all trying to actually help raise your own endo- cannabinoids so these two work together CBD trunk he'll go hand-in-hand because they help each other out so if you want these people that scared of losing I have a way that nobody can win 100% of the time how's that wealthy go to love my Tommy.com/spoony yes putting coats poorly you get a huge discount on our front field so there's another contest that you're guaranteed to win every time every single time you do that and you get the benefits of polyphenols to include exercise recovery to include gut health brain health and while you there go to KB MD health and get yourself a bottle of CVD easy enough Deacon everyone's a winner if they just follow the steps it's really all it is so why don't you take us out of contest mode and tell us a little bit about what's going on in the brown household in the Brown household so this past weekend me and Lucas traveled to balmy Houston for a big turn big tennis tournament Pollyanna super proud of him he actually won the whole thing I love you and I mean there's we that's the beauty of tennis you get out there loaning you you win with grace and you lose with grace and this time you know fortunately pulled off anyone I did get my first taste of what happens when the monsoon shows up to Houston from drive 20 like 3 feet of water in a second that with this with your driving and just started coming down the like oh my goodness now I see why people talk about flooding in Houston it's like a bowl just collects everything with the street literally was a foot of water with only 15 minutes with nuts Houston people are tough that's not even the first time is even happened I mean inches it seems like that's every few years they take on a serious flight was just two years ago they had to Harvey right yeah me that was now get this wrong so we would've correct rebels like over 50 inches of rain in just five hours or something that is not how many homes were washed away crazy this is crazy I mean that kind of puts everything in perspective you know we we worry about the day-to-day digital little annoyances but it would stuff like that happens it's puts all in perspective the year that that Marine I moved from Houston area we lived in league city it did it flooded a maybe a month after we had left there and deed the home that we had in Lake City was I think two and half or 3 feet in the water and the I remember there was a story about Ewa of a worker in one of the high-rises downtown happened to me in the basement just does doing what she was doing and is she was leaving the water came so fast that she tried to basically leave 00 and elevator Mencius it's wild how quickly and there really was a close to sea level to just flood so fast it really does but so would it was awesome to see Lucas when that it was Mother's Day as well we were for your good the gift to his mother was winning this tournament so my daughter was also playing in the terminal so so it was a big tennis we jump to the brown household she did well didn't win it but Jill did well always growing process so what happened in the rigor household so for both of my boys both active add both of them had a basketball tournaments last weekend one of them was was outside of Fort Worth in Mansfield and the other was all down in San Antonio so Marine I had already committed to packing up and enrolling with the other the old one down to San Antonio go see gauge plate and my mom was gracious enough to accommodate getting Mac back and forth his games over the weekend and dad they both both played great and base well engaged in the clinical sure to win their tournament I think Mac was one game short of when there's also but again just another great round of a basketball for both of them but it is I did not like they don't really enjoy it when you have come the big family holiday or some it's recognizing you got that because it's you want to bounce things you want they want your spouse to be able to enjoy the time with both of her kids and then at the same time you want to be able to touch base with your mom so my boys you said well we're just going to arbitrarily move Mother's Day to Monday and they ended up selecting a they got Demaray some fresh oysters we had tuna steak we had some great vegetables the life is gluten-free and so we went got some great gluten-free dessert her to enjoy she had a great time and they are all going to go ride go carts together as is mom and boys said this coming weekend so this will be the activity my mom and I going to meet for dinner we actually haven't had our exchange yet so I think they were going to get this weekend and then but as a family what were doing I think you're doing and also his generosity feeds old generosity feeds that's us we could have a small leaking yeah baby bathwater member right deadly rockabilly were going to go and Ron Ron is put together a fantastic service where he goes to different communities and helps people feed the needy in the area and you just come together if you are a company that's giving of your time or just a family you can go participate you put in some hours in the morning packing meals getting stuff together raising money to feed people the need to eat and signed up down so that's I told her that that was actually on this week and that's really awesome giving back that's important to you absolutely Ron of mod pizza Ron so it's can't I can't wait to see everyone this week and on Saturday that's really awesome I was you jump into my science article which is all about CBD and depression is really cool and something picks me this news article it's all over the news right now you may be seeing it where it says study skipping breakfast increases risk of heart disease by 87% so if you're someone out there and you're getting on Huffington Post are you looking at USA Today or Fox News or something the study came out now I it so happens that I follow a guy that I really respect Peter Addie a cardiothoracic surgeon really cool blue doors on Joe Rogan all the time and you know he's somebody that lives he lives the same way that that I like you look at the data he says this appears to work this doesn't he is a big proponent of circadian rhythm eating which is what Saturn handled it all his research on its we got great data to show that actually eating within a restricted time widow is much healthier for you ship builders like history office because I'm looking at this and I got to thinking that looking back Peter Addie actually sent a blog out this morning on this and the origin of breakfast is the most important meal of the day we ever told that before I've heard a lot that was actually generated by General Foods in 1944 for the launch of grape nuts how that worked like okay guys here's the problem we have an awful tasting cereal it's like chili rocks yeah but you know it's the it's the bosses to the came up with that we have to figure way to get people to eat this crap so how do we do it let's launch a campaign that says breakfast is the most important meal the day and it's Doc so these news outlets there picking up on this study right here and when you actually look at it there doing the same thing that we discussed about other types of studies like when I looked it retrospective analysis of this is a study of a study yeah so what they did is they looked at a it was a large with colored prospective cohort study where they have been following the same group of people for years and years and years and they looked at them after 19 years and then decided what they died and then I looked in the on the questionnaire somehow that questionnaire did you eat breakfast did you not a breakfast so those that ate breakfast apparently lived 87% decrease in mortality those that breakfast so it's really funny what they didn't discuss so this is one of those examples were it's like everything I get it these websites and stuff you have to grab your attention chair they have to sit there and do this little is the resume read anything the studies want to be dramatic so that they get published so what they did is they looked at this cohort of people 19 years later and it also Eric Rieger dies 19 years from now it's like to be breakfast yes no oh wow he lived X money is more sure they didn't they tried to account for extraneous factors with a column but yet was I will that just means a lot of things what they did note is this this is pretty funny those that didn't eat breakfast tended to be unmarried okay smokers heavy drinkers and come from low income areas it did this is not apples to apples to know it's not that's why you picked me off dad because these things come out I've got data now I'm personally I'm a circadian rhythm theater meeting that I try and wait at least 12 hours between turning on my digestive system sure so I believe that based on section pandas data that is really good that intermittent fasting essentially this is what it's called also but trying to do it through circadian rhythm meeting let your body shut down but it wake up then you can feed it for instance if you eat about four hours before you go to bed melatonin starts to rise a little bit and it turned your pancreas off when you eat you stop that process right so there's a reason why when we were cavemen you would quit eating at a certain time because there is no sun you will find the food our bodies are built to do that so then we know that there's all this incredible data Melanie Avalon who does the intermittent fasting intermittent fasting progesterone on the broadcast which you can ask you back on here really really soon I was really absolute love that girl yes she's awesome that is a great example we have people out there that are looking at the science but nobody's publishing it's not going on Fox news here is the worst part this is published in the Journal of cardiology that is garbage and that's it that's a garbage approach to add to really sensationalize that the piece in the it appears to me you may as well say that study reveals that Ted serial killers at one point were 10 issues I mean seriously that's it that's the only application is no control well it's it's it's it's so frustrating because all the good is looking back when you have people out there that are currently doing the science right now right when you look at that you know what quite honestly I don't even need science only 90 as I know that Hugh Jackman got ready to be Wolverine by doing intermittent fasting and that's proof he's just man we saw ejectment so you know he got yet link so what's what's interesting is that they'll even get into the actual relative risk so healthy users they didn't analyze like what people were eating for breakfast I made in any of yeah that's really important to and so remember this is General Foods and so it's like old we go back to eating lucky charms in the morning is the study says that some people do want to decrease my mortality by 80% 87% when you actually get the numbers in the study if you look at the relative risk the relative risk and those that ate breakfast was 10.7% those that didn't 12.2 so it's a it comes into you know it's the quick bake type thing that's not all is so let me ask you so that listeners can have a little bit of a take away if somebody does want to continue to eat breakfast and obviously I think what we were saying here is if your intermittent faster and you wait until certain time of day the evidence doesn't show that there's anything wrong with that whatsoever and then the other thing to take away is there there are those who do like to still eat breakfast I'm actually one of them I could move my window up of when I eat during the day that's kind of mimed my window not at that were never adjusted but what would you recommend that somebody start off the day of eating it's obvious I gotta be great Mr. Lucky charms, could you also let's yeah I mean I don't know it's the General Foods woman came up with that statement right sure I'm trying to get little label and I'm thinking is that on cocoa puffs is that on fruity pebbles right is cookie crisp they have a serial when I grew up cold cookie Chris sure hoping you went anywhere either still here yeah that's right Orton frosted flakes frosted it's not it's not Angel notes on Angel hair that's on the sugar but I made it but it it's it's right and I thought about that not that long ago about how many bowls of cereal is a kiddo.put away we all ate cereal I don't think a thing about it in the what was it the Capt. crunch berries eat me save all the berries in the end and then and then you yeah you take out the berries down the certainty of your slurp up the milk as it takes great was all baited and sugar and then even though you did the roofer your mouth run from Cap'n Crunch dull beat up, like it cannot get good heart, we have to crunch good hurt was wrong liking talk I haven't had great cereal my house now but it's it's it's weird that we are all conditioned to think that that was all okay and really looking back at it change the way that I consume breakfast in the morning for years I don't get fatigued I'm not starving by the time lunch comes round either on the bacon and eggs coming out yet so let's meet when I sit and think about this and unfortunately I think that when you have the Journal of American cardiology putting this out there and I get it somebody took a lot of time to look at the data link yet but the data says that some like yeah but the responsible news outlets are not sharing it the way that should be just exactly right and when we sit on top of this it's not just its breakfast it's what you eating for breakfast because remember what happens is when you have a highly absorbable carbohydrate sugary sugar sugar is a pro-inflammatory thing which is everything in moderation that's cool carbohydrates are dark are good for you but what happens is you eat it and this is required I discussed this with my patients all the time the sugar gets absorbed your pancreas sees this rise in trigger goes oh I need to produce some insulin and insulin slowly rises to match the spike but then that gets absorbed right away so your sugar drops but your insulin is a hormone that folks around and it's your body feels bad now and then it becomes a cycle of I need to get something me now because I don't feel good and then you eat that doughnut literally the worst thing you could do is eat a glazed donut a cup of coffee because the coffee actually turns on your metabolism you metabolize that don't quicker you have that spike insulin horrible things when people tell me that the likable man I've really tried to greeted in sugar but I really I I have hypoglycemia no you don't writer John of hyperglycemia what you have is a correct response to the sugar that you're eating so insert their name all the cereals I remember absolutely crashing in grade school but crash sure yeah 10 o'clock to strong lawful yeah if your bid if you ever being honest and you had a high sugar breakfast as a kid and he think about how much you wanted to get to lunch both to relax and then taking more food there really wasn't natural but I had I knew no better in all we got one minute one minutes giving to add to that study just to say that next week the one that I really went deep diving into which is supercool so if you know anybody that has depression or anxiety to the next week as I want to review a just published article where it looks at how CBD on the cellular level convict your depression that's fantastic in any course you have any questions that you'd like to I have answered a CBD and depression same thing K BMD health.com go to connect submitted so let's start start the process where people have Artie, taken the liberty of posing some questions so here in about 20 seconds we are going to be joint here the next half-hour by Rick Moore be prepared for some great stories of pilot a photographer for Playboy and entrepreneur hilarious guy we will see you here in about two awesome if you are trying to quit drinking or doing too many drugs listen to me you don't know me and will never meet I had a problem like you want I drank and used a party a little too much till it got out of control and almost ruined my life I realize I needed help to fix my problem before totally destroyed me if you tried to fix your drinking and drug problem and you know you can't do it alone you need to call the national treatment advisors they'll immerse you into a 30 day program to replace your old habits with new habits and totally change your life and if you have PPL private health insurance the entire program may be covered fix your problem right now before it gets any worse get clean call now and learn more 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 never forgotten apparel is more than just a premium women's and men's clothing line it's a movement to remind us to wear American-made and serve those who serve us our heroes never forgotten apparel gives 20% of their total sales to nonprofits that support homeless veterans and off-duty firefighters and 50% to individual veterans and firefighters in need nationwide checkout never forgotten apparel.com use promo code Matt and ATT and get 15% off your purchase Dr. Kim Brown here a host of project with my cohost Eric Rieger I see in my practice that I'm trying to is a whole lot more than just loading product yes it is a whole lot more than just exploding because the polyphenols if you find in trying to think of these polyphenols do these polyphenols help you have more energy and polyphenols are great sounds like it's to help a lot more people than just loading go to let my family.com/commercial value of money on on the talent those guys need training like no other we are back how their second half-hour to my right now is Rick Moore and as we dubbed him the Josh of some traits yes so Rick Moore we vote thank you for sending over your resume there's a few things that are really impressed with Rick Moore written or is the only man to ever make a pancake on a waffle iron thank you impressive I heard that you counted to infinity twice it was tough but you know I just kept going and I power through it that what I thought was impressive but that that time that you beat the sun in a staring contest it you know my eyes are there little itchy now actually they are but I was impressed earlier when you came in but because I did not know this when written or enters a room he doesn't turn the lights on he turns the dark off I say Luke I'm your father backwards in my mind and yeah that's how it works so is also known as he's written which you know what I've always wanted to say that Rick Moore bench pellet just a little bit about who you are well okay I I'm a little modest I never go out like in a situation and say oh you know what I'm a Playboy photographer I never do things like that but it was something that I earned and I felt really strongly about was really happy about that was a very long-term goal and it's so important you know when you're a kid achieving little things so that when you're older you can focus on something and at your doctor your anesthesiologist you urinate think these are the same thing those things are long-term goals and it takes a perseverance to get their Playboy photographer it sounds all fun and great but it doesn't just you know people think wow you know I was in the grocery store line and somebody said hey by the way you want to be a playboy photographer as I Why not you know yeah that did not happen and the pilot I'm still it lets you going to bed because I've seen your pictures and it's really impressive when people hear that they just think oh is a playboy photographer but the reality is how to get into photography it's EA you're welcome to cut me off at any time but I started out when I graduated from high school wasn't sure what to do my grandfather became ill in California and I had no experience with this but my father promoted me to caregiver and so I went out and I took care of him as he was terminally ill with prostate cancer while I never really knew the guy and it was amazing we bonded together we had the best time to guy had all these Oklahoma sayings like breath like a bird on the grapevine the whistle and through the trip you know that Stan and Harold were you when you were doing I was 17 and and while turning 18 I turned 18 that summer and when he passed away my father had come out it became too much for me to really he went back into the hospital care facility and that I would just go visit him and my father came back in and after he passed my father gave me his camera and you know I think most teenagers there really looking for something like I want to play guitar nothing man no matter how many lessons I had nothing and different things like that you want to stand out in some way and for some reason the genetics that I received I had a technical side in an artistic side and at that time a film camera which is very different from a digital camera had certain hurdles that you had to you had to be able to fly over those and so my technical side was able to do that my artistic side for my mom just she gave me a natural eye for composition and immediately I broke something on the camera there were no instructions it was completely manual no light meter so I would just go and ask every camera salesman I confront why did the picture not work and it was a great conversation as well it was very interactive and my mom gave me any of them, that maybe this camera was really old special know you know what I think it's a great path because the problem with of and it the incredible cameras of today they just taken pictures the most important thing about photography first is your eye and some people can just you know the cameras doing so many things automatically for them they have a great eye but when you have to do everything yourself you really have to look at what light is doing and what shadow is doing and those are what make a great photograph of flattering photographs and unflattering photographs to dramatic photograph a flat boring photograph and so by starting from that basic foundation where I met the guy that shot a lot of the Marlboro ads okay and in his talk he he doesn't use a light meter he just used those sheets that came with a package of film and he knew light so well he knew the military it was F-16 enough 125 why do I need a light meter that's what it is file and that's consistent every single day that it's sunny at that time a day is always the same exposure on that he so so what was your first pay did the photographer wow that was so long ago you know what I did was then we didn't talk about any of this but I worked on my Masters at OU and something that was more astounding to a friend of mine we went on a trip to Columbia's I taught his friend in college I was an instructor is also working on massacres that he didn't care anything I find always get a be saying the Playboy thing all the time never mention because this is my buddy Rogers Prof. in college while what a professor I was an instructor but that was an awesome awesome experience of the whole communication thing is awesome so when I left that instead of going on in that direction becoming a scholar which would've been ill-fated I went towards my dream of photography I started assisting in Dallas and I assisted for I thought it was gonna be probably two months was five years and that's where I got my photographic education there were tremendous incredible photographers in in Dallas and I focused on assisting the ones that had gone to a particular school in California there were two great schools the art center school design and Brooks and I assisted probably every photographer in Dallas that graduated from the Art Center in Sandy getting 80,000 of the two months and then suddenly now turns into five years what what what kept you going you know it was the knowledge and I was getting paid like I I'd I didn't realize I mean I was a lazy teenager you know I could lay in front of the television for a very long time that a problem the gap my mom even told her I said no mom I feel guilty and she had something written for me and in calligraphy the time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time and later in life she said I knew you were going to be a busy person and I knew that that time wouldn't always be there for you what was the baby bathwater lecture that that guy that I that I think is amazing that neuroscientists Jack yeah his name is Jack we heard this great lecture that she's a neuroscientist and him talking about how in the periods of what people would describe as boredom oh yeah Tom's genius so we don't allow ourselves to be bored we don't allow ourselves to sit there and let our minds wander like that if you've got a very creative mind know so there so sit in front to get what I would say that you lazy it just seemed like you were subconsciously planning what will happen you know what's interesting about that is in this current day an and in my I drive to South Texas nine hours every month for my mom and and come back and during that time most audiobooks but I I and there do not I'm not learning anything your science fiction but I've noticed that I used to just drive and just you know you'd blank out and then you'd start daydreaming and you start thinking of things I've been I've been pondering that a flight you know what I really need to have that time back where I'm bored and my mind wanders because that is it is really important that's where a lot of cool stuff comes from so you're doing this I mean ultimately I'm interested how would we go from there to be one of the best Playboy photographers when you're done covers you do that for years of where we go from there to actually get into be the the chosen one to do Playboy photography by the way let's go had mentioned something this is pre-Photoshop oh yeah no yeah yeah when I heard that yeah what we're talking a little earlier I was like oh yeah Photoshop did not exist they did have you know and the thing about being the difference between a Playboy photographer in a fashion photographer at that and that. In film fashion photographer could shoot a roll of 36 frames get to frames that were spectacular like the everything just came together and then the other 34 frames were mowed as a Playboy photographer what everyone has the screamo I'd love to do that the editors of Playboy and we do this seminar together now where I get to talk with him what he Gary Cole he was the head Playboy editor of all photography for like 35 years and he said you know it wasn't our job to be friends with the photographers it was our job to get the most out of them and so if I sent 1036 frames and one frame was out of focus or poorly composed or you couldn't she clearly see the eyelashes of the model under loop I was in trouble so a Playboy photographer had to be able to get 36 frames not two in focus composed perfectly lit and the only variations are what the model brought to it you know like our interaction and what you are saying about will how did I get to be a playboy photographer it has to do with the ability first somebody to become at ease okay in an awkward environment most Playboy models were not models they were girls next door I did a lot of the castings met a lot of the girls before hand they had never done anything like this shirt and so my longtime assistant and I as I was an assistant to a Playboy photographer we weren't serious onset we words trying to figure out who is going to get a date we were laughing we were focused on trying to do a great job in the model could she could feel that unit interviewing somebody with the cam you're getting the best out of them yes we were doing everything to support her make her feel safe and after a while you know we are cracking up the crew is cracking up makeup artist stylist we are all just this is our work and were comfortable with it and the model would kind of feel that and after a while just like you know okay I'm great I'm good with all this and that's very different from a guy with a camera trying to replicate those photographs of support they missed a couple thoughts come to mind and one of them is obviously that the guy with the camera has to be probably the center of great interaction received by the model so that they know they're having a conversation with the same person who has right the camera another one is whenever you take you back to when he said all 36 frames had to be on point essentially don't have anything out of focus so it sounds to me like whenever you are taking those you're pushing the button you wanted ever every single one of those was executed with purpose it wasn't a string of hold the button down and you hear the cheat sheet cheat sheet you have the camera it's this is a shot that I want I've got it I've got this person in their best present mode etc. make any comment to me I how do you Eddie commit to pushing the button and try to hit 36 and 36 times while the other thing you just mentioned about the focus this is pre-autofocus so yeah and so you are focusing on somebody you're involved in that dynamic and so it for me it I it's it's easy for me to have a conversation it's easy for me to operate a camera doing both is a bit of a stretch yeah and so that you know that something that I had to work on during those five years of being an assistant I assisted a Playboy photographer and I watched him and it was really funny because I would set up as lights I would do all this and and I thought okay have got this and then I would do my own test and I didn't have it and how do I not have this and he told me after about a year is very generous with me and he said I have a fudge factor I don't I don't go by the light meter I go by what I feel the exposure should be and he was really good at directing you know doing this multitasking and so I was able to learn that way you know by watching and listening do you feel like having to commit to each one of the pictures that you took we made our made you make certain that the conversation was far more personal because your just like he said you directing your helping them make this image exactly how you know that it's going to pass muster so the conversations really gone versus just standing there, losing some your personality hitting the button over and over again with with quote unquote throwaways which he didn't have you didn't want throwaways you wanted every yeah I couldn't have trouble right and end that I mean it's I'm not saying that lightly I got in trouble like I got you know people don't realize when a Playboy editor once the best out of you right it's not necessarily gentle because kits you can't have self-doubt either you have to be in the flow state is what I'm thinking like you have to get yourself in the in in a certain place because of your doubting of your letters that you like that it's going to show up that's the I think that's what's so impressive about why there's certainly world renowned photographers and everybody that has a camera trying to be one there's there's a gift there somewhere that when you know my father was a geologist and then he became an entrepreneur he didn't want to work for the man he wanted to do his own thing and he became a builder and real estate investor he could not understand why I wanted to be a photographer and unfortunately he passed away and 92 from a glioblastoma but he got to see me in the zone one time we were traveling to California together and we were at a rest stop and I saw something and it was very weird for anyone to see something in that environment and II went into the zone and he got to see and I didn't know he was seeing it after we got the car we started driving his like I I get I get it now want to be a photographer because I you were so in that you know and then he saw the photographs in the Bloom way it was not you note it wasn't what you saw with her neck at night what's what's in the frame how I exposed it and you member the exact feeling that you had when you're in that zone oh yeah describe it to everything else goes away I'd say it's kind of like meditation you know where I see what can be in that photograph but in the days of film you can't see what's going to happen and I like what separated the men from the boys and film photography is shooting negative film had a lot of latitude you could be off a lot shooting slide film or chrome film you couldn't be off at all and so I shot chromosome because that's why I aspired to shoot for a magazine I aspired to be one of those guys and that's what they shot when you were in that that. When you're in the flow state was it hot will look like what was there like how did you feel describe didn't you know what you wish and I can say this for my play wishes because it happened so often while I was shooting I wasn't hungry I wasn't hot I wasn't called I wasn't thirsty I was just in it after I finished shooting I was like after that had gone away for a little while that I was starving and I was tired and I needed to sit down and rest but while I was in that zone it was you know your your basic needs are met you know you don't need stuff the reason why I'm trying to get you to think of the exact moment in the mood that you were in we Eric and I were lucky enough to meet up with a guy named Michael burn off last week you were to ask you to in Scottsdale and she is a neurolinguistic programming expert oh interesting and opaque and when you are describing this or describing a time how many years it was how man that would've been like 1990 so 1990 you're describing it to me like earlier like it happened yesterday you have that memory burned sure thing one of the things about NLP is that I'm just learning this but this is what something I would get really good at because doing exactly what you just said you were in a flow state NLP has something called anchoring where what you do is you repetitively really feel that emotion whatever motion it is whatever motion you want to Tony Robbins does this every says he has his pre-stage warm up that's is anchoring routine so that he gets his he can increase or decrease as energy by doing a was called anchoring. So like that moment right there if you think about that really think about you to flow state and then do a physical movement to connect your brain to something people tap the leg to climb surface they do different things and you really believe it then you can train your brain to go into that flow state when you want it's really cool stuff but I sought they are unlike while the ability to do that will go that that's off-topic to get out so so that's what you do this which is always it's always that moment when a father is your maybe he was worried about you at all. To delete something she testing as he had been an amateur photographer and an amateur inventor and he was he became a father and he had to quit and put away childish things and focus on what he had to do to put food on the table her and he was a great guy great provider smart guy and I didn't realize how me and my friends he meant toward an eye I continue to run into it I would not of you know I ran into a guy that I'd seen in 20 years is out of never bought real estate if it not been for your father and you know it it that didn't happen for me until later in life where I wanted to pursue my own dream and my father was so loving and concerned about me that he went to other people to tell them to coach me on not becoming a photographer he wanted me to skip that step and go on to being an entrepreneur and to invest in real estate and a banker will president of a bank called me in young guy had a great camera system had a dark room outside of his house you know Rick I'm president of this bank I can afford any camera I want I can do photography on trips and you know what that's what you should do and I said my dad's been talking to you and and my dad was funny he would take vanilla from Mexico was pure vanilla then when you you can only get a chemical extract United States take out and give that all the bank tellers everyone at the bank everyone knew him by his first name and you know he was just a great guy with camaraderie and stuff I guess only ask a favor is no problem but I was like yeah how's my dad it's you do you have any regrets about spending the first part of your career doing photography for the other sheriff which ties into the other guest we've had on the show know know it was you know you have these different dreams or goals I just saw on on Facebook they ran a picture in Brownsville of this hotel that I was no longer just browse a lifeguard there and my brother is a lifeguard so I wanted to get sick I gotta be a lifeguard and then a friend of mine Greg had taught while he was working on his Masters like I want to do that and then it's like that happen for me and it was I never thought I'd really want to teach although my mother was a teacher there was one of the most rewarding experiences of my life it was just awesome photography specifically as a Playboy photographer you know you and I we have spoken a little bit about this before about I had stage fright really extreme stage fright from my mom wanting to endear me with cultural foundations evinces front like you do like to speak in public you did note that she put me on tap and ballet at four I had a rather high but the entire time I did not order aside and so you know I'm I'm dressed in this feather cost tailored to his word what you're becoming a photographer you can step in and yeah yeah so my God Sadie was a big auditorium at University of Oklahoma and four years old four years old and I remember this I do not enter this feeling I've been fighting this feeling my entire life so I've done a lot of other things but yeah the curtain opens ears like for me as a kid it look like a thousand people I didn't either never learn the dance I did know a recital was and so the girl next to me is so sweet I remember that she was turning and she was trying to coach me to turn saws turning out of step with everyone else her and my brother yelled way to go Rick Meyer audience burst out laughing so whatever I would do anything from then on it that always happened so it like I was at a Christmas play in a rural school and they had real animals and I was a shepherd was the third Shepherd and I had a real cheap in my sheep it turned out was a jackass and didn't want to move this is the nativity scene I think yeah okay yeah everyone's on stage course of third Shepherd and I'm up there wrestling with that she and I had to grab it by its front hooves and pull it down the whole thing so people are already laughing I had to pull it and wrestle it on stage and put my foot on it while they're singing silent night and it's saying is going to be you know sent to slaughter something and yeah everyone cracked apples like yeah this just does not go really well just think about that the debt looking up when you're describing this you have this memory that you can never shake the movie central intelligence with the rock now no well basically the Rockies massive but she overcompensated his whole life because of one bad experience and whenever he gets insecure he think about that that's not what that's exactly what you had significant stage fright and is that the reasons that's crazy but because that you have no problem with that of a creep up when you were both models and stuff like that when your basement and Saiz did the camera allow you to never have the feeling I didn't experience it one on one or with groups I experienced it when I would step on stage be in front of a microphone be in front of a camera that kind of thing when I was going to have to stand up and and that's why I started doing classes acting classes improv classes well I took the acting class and it was way out of my league and a really great person and there said you know what I know this great acting coaches names Don shook and he has a talent for someone like you I know that feeling that he did he really did pretty good actor for a photographer yeah whatever were trying to do different business things like that's not bad for about Dr. CRA does almost adequate training is is you make a great website that will help you that's Larry's so obviously you are you are looking for something now to move beyond photography we got about a minute here till this segment ends will take it over but is going to be a lot more to come Rick with the way that you move from photography to where you are today so how many years did you do the photography with the shop for Playboy for 20 years and then while I was doing that I was also free to shoot commercial worksite shot commercial work all over and was it just a great run is really you know fantastic career in those 20 years when the technology started to change how does that make you feel you know I think all of us were just thinking it was amazing and and fantastic but it actually killed the whole business of being a you know the the professional photographer role that I got to have kind of no longer exists but it was great while it lasted and I there are new avenues people are inventing new things you know but it's a it's a new world than the availability of digital images just on the line it online how people can find your how just you just change them is change the landscape just Russell is fighting a shot I uploaded my computer I press auto enhancement to the redeye out you can just do only that this concert will talk about later 30 years ago I shot it on film with the camera didn't have autofocus and I was at guitar convention and in Dallas watching the guy stand in front of everybody very rudely take pictures and watching the screen of the camera as it automatically focused exposed and balanced and the images were great that's the end of this half-hour Rick is going to tell us a little more about moving on to some other greener pastures this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun clear spoony this hour from Townhall.com, where now learning more about Pres. Trump soon to be released immigration reform plan would shift to favoring immigrants with high level skills degrees and job offer instead of those with family already in the US officials say now get roughly 2/3 of all grade cards just 12% have been awarded based on merit the plan would also end the diversity Visa lottery which offers green cards to people from countries with historically low rates of immigration to the US the proposal will focus also on beefing up border security that's correspondence Akamai gone another of the president's judicial nominees has been confirmed Korean immigrant Kenneth Lee taking a seat on the ninth US circuit Court of Appeal is a conservative constitutionally minded nourished just kind liberals complained the presence been packing the courts with may feel a little lonely in his role his college writings critical homosexual sex and affirmative-action foretell a career in which you will often be at odds with the liberal still in control of perhaps the most progressive court in all the land buying new report New York City's mayor says he's in the race Bill de Blasio running for president Democrat announced his bid with a video released by his campaign early Thursday morning in announcing his candidacy de Blasio is seeking to claim a role on the national stage that is alluded him as mayor of the biggest US city the 58-year-old could face obstacles and distinguishing himself in a field crowded with left-leaning Democrats he also faces skepticism at home recent poll found 76% of New Yorkers say they believe he should not run Ken Lorman reporting on construction rose 5.7% last month led by single-family home building on Wall Street this hour the Dow is up 207 points yes and P 26 points higher the NASDAQ up 66 barley stories@townhall.com take the pain out of ordering your diabetic testing supplies with diet Thrive diatribe ships the testing supplies you need directly to you when you need them best of all with plans starting as low as 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800-245-0823 all right now that number again is 800-245-0823 are you tired of high cable TV rates sign up for dish today and get a $500 bonus offer while supplies last plus locking your price for two years guaranteed call American – your dish authorized retailer now 800-570-6630 800-570-6630 – 800-570-6630 offers required critical negation 20 from early termination fee instructions apply call for okay were back with the second hour of the gut check project episode number 11 we are joined with Rick Morgan to get back to his story here in just a moment quick reminder if you want your daily polyphenols go ahead and grab the world's only NSF approved for bloating and abdominal discomfort relief I tried deal you can do so@lovemytummy.com/spoony use code spoony to save a lot of money and in fact Dr. Ken Brown here knows a little bit about it what about trying to outrun feel so we all about trying to realizing that there is an unmet need in a natural solution to heal people's guts basically attributable our something like that or get bloated after you and now after the end of the science we realize are so much more to it because the polyphenols the same molecules that are in the Mediterranean diet they actually help do a lot of things and that one of them is decrease information information ultimately is the root cause of all problems so so well your bloated today or never you can always benefit from daily polyphenols and you can get your milligrams your daily milligrams of arch on TL's polyphenols and love my tummy.com/spoony use coats many disabled of money and by the way you scoots pretty this is this is this is a secret you win that's the contest yelled as spoony hundred percent chance you can win a giant discount hundred euros a winner every time nobody has written back into didn't work I note SPOONY definitely and remind you of the contest all all listeners out there don't forget you simply need to go to YouTube and find the gut check project channel subscribe screenshot it send to us it got check project.com that I subscribe and if we choose you name it is said they had to send us the screenshot you get a free Bala Voltron deal and a free bottle of KB MD CBD the only physician approved CBD on the market we were just really back to Rick right now we were just talking about the fact that due to a traumatic tap and ballet experience when you're four years old carried over and felt some significant stage fright we do know that CVD does this of the study on how about next week does help with both anxiety and depression I will take a little right now what you get back into it and talk about why you decided to take acting classes will and on that note I'm from the generation where you know we were given antibiotics like vitamins my vegetables came out of a can I have Nestlé's quick you know sugar the generation that's going on right now I will say my crap is happening my lot that's how I grew up and and so I didn't know what good biome was I didn't know anything about Pro probiotics I just knew that when I ate beans bad things happened and so when Bino came out I saw that I was in oh I was in a drugstore and my father and said if you ever find anything I love being sweeping still love me and so I got this bottle and I which the checkout stands, scared is kind of like buying something you kind of herb are embarrassed about and I I went up to the the check out is this older lady super nice intrapsychic disease work being no really and there was there is a lady behind me and I was super embarrassed and she goes you know what you could save 1/4 on this is supposed be no check whatever cashiers stand was 25 I was just turning redder and redder but that was at beginning and since then you know the altar until the CBD oil like more and more you know your gut is that's the foundation that's where everything happens and so my gut was a real mess and I heard part of the melatonin conversation I want to hear more that because I've had sleep problems and just the whole gut health is something that I didn't have for a long time and that's something that you know it it's it's really important well by us but we always say that all health begins and ends in the gut and I do want to say that we mentioned at the beginning of the show that you own Redbud medical MJ in Oklahoma City yesterday the first dispensary which carries my CBD and my baby up front feels that a right that's right you want to kill some got together is what we put these together if you wanted a little geeky about it given your clients command you like why so miss you like because gut health is really important because information starts in the gut and CBD decreases that but what upfront yield as the polyphenols yes raise your own Amanda mind which is your own endo- cannabinoid so it actually stops the enzyme that breaks down when we don't sleep we go through stressful periods this enzyme called FAA H goes up you actually decrease your own endogenous under cannabinoid so that's why they go together and that's actually how I got into the side to see beauty but that's if somebody comes in your store so this is a whole new world and the thing is Redbud is it's a medical MJ dispensary cannabis and CBD and trying to add we have people that you know it it it's not you know there's that perception about how it's this is all a charade to get high and it's not we have real people coming in with real problems we are not doctors you know and this it's so weird that this is this whole new field that the cloak is being pulled off of after 80 years and were all just starting and my former former girlfriend is a PhD in neuroscience and she's she's constantly when we have this conversation she's like Rick your nuts need of these this studies have not been done on this yet Mike yeah but it's happening you know this is happening without studies where things are happening in the store will talk about my manager's father whenever so my manager imagine if we actually had like a producer that was to stay on script my life is squirrel I so Christie her father and I've known Kristi and her family since the early 90s Christie is your partner in the business right she's my manager she and I dated in the 90s and she has her own and her sister's their own Playboy fame they were in a big pictorial and 97 for Playboy magazine and you know really really you know cool background in everything but her father was it a former Oakland city police officer and he was he waited way too long he was smoking a cigar sitting on his chair watching TV didn't go to see the doctor in time had stage IV esophageal cancer so stage IV means that it is already spread in the survival of that is pretty low so he was given he couldn't swallow anything day the facility but feeding tubes in forum and he hated the hated everything his mind wasn't clear at the time he wasn't cooperating he did one round of chemo and they sent him home and said you know what there's really nothing we can do for him and so Christie sisters took upon themselves to become his caregivers and through dispensary we were able to get him Rick Simpson oil and to get them CBD so let Eric explain what Rick Simpson will is because you're actually very knowledgeable in this Rick Simpson and my understanding is that Rick sits and basically came up with a protocol that is high concentrated THC light and so I think that his theory was that it was going to disable the ability for the either the propagation or the replication of cancerous cells and how they were to prove all that I'm not exactly sure but I do know that it's almost like distillate in terms of THC so just like you would take a liquor and you're starting with the raw material in the new course hafted cooking mash and then bright distilled down my understanding is basically Rick Simpson oil is just highly concentrated THC and then they use it for kiddos who have a really bad seizures all kinds of different things like that so the sisters basically put a few drops of that and CBD oil in a teaspoon gave it to them and were just like were not going to just let them die and after three days his throat started clearing and he was able to swallow his own saliva after for five days the THC kicked his appetite in an that some other stories that I'm aware of in my past oath of any way that works really well the THC kicks in appetite and and lowers nausea so he asked for a doughnut they gave him half a doughnut and he ate it then he asked for more I started feeding him so after two weeks he went to see the doctor didn't just saw the nurses he had gained 16 pounds bag weeks in two weeks I'll ask him what he was doing and he said while meeting I had Corona and fried chicken before I came in six is not the optimal diet but the sisters were just trying to give him whatever he wanted to eat and put weight on tonight, your weight gain which tells a lot to me from from a scientific standpoint so he gained that much weight naturally appear to time there is something that is very well known its tumor wasting syndrome the tumor itself actually uses up all the energy actually goes into a catabolic state that's how come people get cancer even if it's not a cancer of the esophagus will lose a profound amount of weight when you said two weeks first thing I thought of is that to shrink double the tumor the tumor wasting process was stopped it shrank by 50% while sure their measurements and they took the feeding tubes out and so Ito that's I don't have a background for measuring an Avis in a scientific way but you know things like acupuncture evolved out of a pragmatic approach and I think that's what's happening and it may have been happening in the past and we didn't know about it because a patient like that the doctor might ask him will have you do this when they can't say because in Texas a vague cartridge is a felony Rick Simpson oil highly concentrated telling a felony I mean that's not just sad to me that's criminal so we had to leave with addresses with joy Beckerman we talked about was Sean when he was on Christmas song Christmas song we've covered this a lot because when when you see something that powerful I see it in my patients when I the fact that until the farm bill passed technically CBD also help derive CBD which is a perfectly legal to what things were timeout that shut Patrick brought up was the fact that depression and anxiety and things have been increasing ever so through technology check Patrick through something out there he goes do you think that start happening when they criminalize the hemp industry and we quit putting it in food we quit because then we were losing a lot of those vital cannabinoids right well I myself you know we been talked about how cool it was for me to be a playboy photographer and all that that ended in 2011 the Chicago office was she was close down much like the movie the secret life of Walter Mitty Ben Stiller almost everything that happens that movie-shot in Iceland but you know I wasn't really the photographer character is much as I was also the Ben Stiller character or is always dreaming of doing things but everything that happens to them in that movie pretty much happened at the Chicago office was never fired I was never I didn't quit the office that I worked for ceased to exist and 300 people that made that work were no longer there and that happened my mom became ill my friend of mine that I as I became a caregiver for my mom that saw this happening I asked what your mom is sick with so memory problems dementia we try to get a proper diagnosis diagnosis she couldn't handle the die at that time to really tell us what it was and basically what that doctor was saying was just depressing us so my brother and I became her co-caregivers and my brother he's a very pragmatic guy and he took her off of one pharmaceutical after another until she was only on blood pressure so she takes I give her it set 369 Omega balance in a gluten-free waffle in the morning and put coconut oil on that she get CBD in her coffee she takes a vitamin shake it has everything in it is so she gets that everything I would add is that there was a study they came out with absorbable tumor with a 2 to 2 parties that have dementia and because to work itself is brutally absorbable right but there is there certain brands that actually cross the blood brain barrier and that actually show that the one group that took that had improved memory in an adult until two so that's what that's what I have all my patients do CBD the Omega threes door or fish oil tumor and are trying to heal and we should have the trunk show I've tried adding turmeric here and there it hasn't stuck yet so I need to find the one that is you know oh I know a great way to get that sign up for this the D had health jihad health box and I was all about you and Dee had box.com I'm sorry dear Scott old the office shut down remind you where to go for a good friend of mine in Oklahoma that I he he was my NASCAR crew chief at Sears for the last 25 years and my father's before that and they just close that Sears I can't believe LOL yeah that.I was hoping to hire some of those employeesat the but the dispensary but not big enough yet but anyway he said look Rick if you he says I'm not saying this it can happen but if you lose your girlfriend oh you know you've got too many things on your plate right now and it's just doubts something else you don't have to worry about and it happened to me while I was caring for my mom and then that did happen to be so psyched my dream job my mom comes down without girlfriend gone and how many other things one of my best friends passed away and a guy that I kind of help mentor totally stab me in the back so I was trying but my my great friend stick boy that's been my sister for 20 years I got solid as a rock we just went to Panama together but I went to a back pain guy that was I've tried all these alternative things he was a Buddhist healer and was injured back issues of the time also oh yeah so all this is going on yeah and and you know the guy sat with me for 20 minutes he said something that's going on with you and I told him what it happened was like that guy after you help them pulling that on yet really hurt your feelings didn't I haven't thought about it was like yeah I guess now you mention it it did and then he started working on my back it was like his job to unlock any emotional you know it was all physical right yeah and it did ease my backup so I have tried a lot of different things in this map I came down with I did know what depression was I've never been depressed and I would go to place falls on mom duty that I'd gone to for years now there is no one there I knew but I drove 45 minutes ago there was like a black curtain just came over my eyes and I was totally uncomfortable there and I just got back in my pickup truck and drove 45 minutes home and I was okay in front of the television and it should be developing some social anxiety at this point and I this it was so foreign to me I couldn't you know I'd never I'd always been even though I have stage fright in terms of getting up in front of a group I've never had problems walking up to somebody in talking to venture or being in a group environment and so that was really weird to me what I can say is that since I've pretty much gotten through that now like better diet I became Pesca Terrien just looking after myself looking at what I'm eating looking at what I'm doing you know those are the building blocks and and so I've gradually kind of been working my way and so yeah pretty good now but I've noticed having dispensary has certain benefits if I start feeling like that man a little bit and I'm not the thing is I've never been a stoner I don't I didn't really like the different experiences in the variety of effects that it could have one time I'd be happy want I might be sitting in a chair not wanting to talk to anybody in high school or something if you're just thinking wow that's me and a good friend of mine clued me into that there are these different strains of what I never knew that right is only like just a few years ago so during my adult life I never smoked and I was very cautious about it so learning about it that there is Indica which is more of a you state it's called couch lock you want to sit down on your couch you want to watch TV or go to sleep early in the couch yeah and or city of the upbeat and what's so funny is one of the things I've smoked early on was Acapulco Gold that's not a hybrid it's a pure sick even I didn't know what it was I had no idea that will now my dispensary carries that overheads of faith and it is so interesting because it's just that you know for me again not really a stoner but that little puff would bring me out of if I were starting to feel a little down bingo you just keep referring to the Redbud medical MJ how did you end up even get them in word we went from right photography to depression and now we jump forward and you just open well the store so my brother and I've been taking care of our mom for 10 years the level at which you have to be able to compete as a photographer at that level is 120% just like you guys put that into your work you really have to be audit and focused and available because people call you and they need it yesterday and so me being a month on a month off is no longer able to do that and when I was with my mom I can just tell this is where I need to be right now I just it was a comfortable feeling with her you know she's like the daughter I never had now sure and we have done water aerobics wheat we do lots of fun things together and it's not like it's I'm not Pete I don't want to paint a picture like this is an awful time I really enjoy sure and but I was kinda looking for something else and on my own path of finding you know things for my ailments as I'm getting older things hurt you know II get some inflammation and so on this path I became more and more interested in cannabis and after the explicit explanation and a good friend of mine in Dallas we were talking about investing when it look like medical marijuana was in a pass as you know a broad-based opportunity in Texas and it it really didn't so with Christie in Oklahoma she and I were talking about it she is a Somali EA of cannabis she can like literally a grower has come into our dispensary shall smell what he brought in and say you know what you need to cure this for another two weeks on LA you can tell if it's Hydro soil grown she is literally a Somali eight of cannabis and I'm I'm lucky to have her so she can profiles mostly just smell reservation yet you know what's funny is when we dated I could meet cornets the in the entire time her senses like I would walk in and I see smacking chewing gum and she is them going looking at me and even now like she would offer me some chips or something and that I chew them and she'd look at me and then I have known her for a long time now to Mike you're irritated she's like please not to those why do you keep asking me if I want to because I know I gotta quit asking you is awesome your balance it out just give her cornets County just to know about she is very very acute senses and there is theirs I know that you don't her way to be gifted at this particular thing you know this is wow you're going to go really far if you have somebody like that yeah she she calls the shots anything we buy she is really she's really strict on everything nothing comes into the store that hasn't passed her to she takes it seriously millionaire different than someone who sues doing a simile of wine is really high-end a liquor store so that it is listening where exactly is your store like the address of 1038 W. I 240 Service Rd., Oklahoma City so it's on it's right on the freeway and where right next door to a 7-Eleven it's in between pen and Western so I want everybody or… Have whoever wants to do this but to be really funny if you walked in and said I want somebody to walk into the Redbud medical MJ with a container of corn nuts he goes impromptu contest if somebody can go in to your dispensary read about medical MJ and take a picture with Christie while holding court or not you will be awarded a free bottle of KB nisi Beatty oh yeah oh I like that it it'll be great as long as I don't end up getting it out thumbtack to the wall as project.com and let us know that you have the picture you sent it doesn't we communicate with you and you will get a free bottle that's awesome even better was an action shot as she is like the door we do have surveillance camera so you should test this out as we have 30 seconds I forget in the next half-hour just a little preview we can wrap up with risk until some great stories about some of his experiences all away from you can compete here for for basically for African depict problems read in interesting study that I want to tell about the other way and on and has to do with how do people shower yeah that's right you know the answer that you cling on through it every Tuesday with you CMO Dr. Kim Brown here hose check project with Lycos Eric Rieger Eric Regency and mojo guys over there and overhears Billy talking about 20 over bloating I've seen in my practice that I'm trying to is a whole lot more than just a floating product yes it does a whole lot more than just exploding because the polyphenols that you find keen on trying to get your exactly right the polyphenols are those molecules we find in the Mediterranean diet it makes vegetables and fruit very colorful polyphenols beware these polyphenols can actually stop the nation help you have more energy you have you antiaging and polyphenols are great sounds like a hellhole more people 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month based on what you can afford to pay 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 eight bad I grade euros stated four years old] so some weird Music back here the last about 11 got Jay project join here with Rick Moore owner of Redbud metal MSA J my fault that I read but when it was a grand opening you just started so yeah you know what I think organ have the grand opening were looking at doing a show of my photographs from 1989 at the Moscow world peace Festival the first stadium rock concert in the Soviet Union it was so while they say that again the first rock concert in Italy it was this first stadium rock concert so previously to that I think Elton John had been there Billy Joel had been there they were you know great artist and it was the the first breaking down of that wall and then this is the first stadium rock concert Doc McGee the famous band manager of motley crew and Bon Jovi and so many great bands he had to do some custom what is it civic service for something he did was he put on these concerts and this was the biggest and MTV was behind it and it was so cool I I knew I was going to rush I have some friends that did ship salvage that I grew up with one of my best friends Josh and he and I have been through thick and thin since we were 14 and he was Nino doing this stuff going back and forth and also why I like to do that they needed some photographs and so this big deals on the table to do a joint venture with the ministry of fisheries and so you been Russia while it was still the USSR so I went over there but I called Doc McGee's office before I left I was in a Playboy photographer yet I don't know what inspired me to do these kinds of things where just like you I'd like to talk to Dr. McGee that I got his you know his people I said look him to be in Russia love to shoot this concert I'm Rick Moore work with Playboy as an assistant in there like okay fine when you get there you know come by and see us thinking I would never get there so I got there and because we are working with the ministry of fisheries we were able to stay in this one it was like a mini mall of Western good send an activity what euros is against 1989 nine and an average Russian could not walk in there and no rock stars were allowed to stay they stayed at this scary hotel that was built by Stalin they looks really scary but they got to come over and eat and so it was called the measures that are denied and it was built by Armand Hammer and it was a yelp review on that right now no man I don't know but back then it was like I was the only four-star anything there and so the concert yet I was doing my stuff which is a whole other wild set of adventures and crazy some of while this things I've ever experienced but the concert happened so I go over to that hotel Hamrick more like to pick up my press pass we've never heard of you you're not a known concert photographer you know no and so I was like wow that sucks so I knew that the hard rock was doing a barbecue for the rock star to have dorky park okay so I went over there Bon Jovi and Ricky Sambora were walking out I walked up to them John can I have a word with you yes yeah you look I'm Rick Moore I want to shoot this concert contacted Doc McGee before I left but I really think back I really need to get get get a pass and he looks at Richie's and boarding checkbooks were not really in charge of that and they wash away so that was I thought okay that's it it's over so I was in one of these are even asked for an autograph and you know I really wanted to find been in Russia by that time for a few weeks and the smell of an American hamburger at that time I mean I was definitely an omnivore at that point I wanted a hamburger so bad I didn't dare ask but that's what I should have asked about what you know in opener but anyway I go back and I'm I'm sulking at the this mini mall place in one of the bars talking to Russian guy everyone in this bar like there was a senator and that bars a small place everyone was, something interesting so Doc McGee walks in and I kind of knew who he was when he walked in and he just walked up to every single person in the bar asking who they were and what they were doing their while and file I I didn't jump out it I waited to my old yellow all the table he goes who are you and what are you doing here I symbol my names Rick Moore I'm a photographer I contacted your office for a press pass I went to the hotel and they didn't have one for me goes go there tomorrow I was there tomorrow and there were my press passes fans has believable heading days with a concert to okay and it was the stadium was ringed by armored vehicles in the middle of the of the floor part there were solid lines of Army officers and she guys in the Army like at attention the entire concert they didn't know what to expect and so explain the I guess I'm just coming long time ago but this is the first time that they allowed yes American rock musicians and what they think it was a great riot in what way I dated know what to expect there were also Russian rock bands Gorky Park but it was Cinderella skid row motley crew Bon Jovi Ozzy Osbourne scorpions lesbians and you know that concert video winds of change if they mention and enhance the flower in the gun barrel I was walking behind the scorpions just they were doing their thing I would I had my camera out I'm not a paparazzi I wouldn't trying to bother them but there was a Russian army guy holding his gun and he had a flower in the barrel that's where that came from I shot the guy with the gun in the flower oligopoly and they re-created it they became really good friends that's your picture note not my picture we I shot the picture and I have that they were inspired to put that from seeing that in their video they re-created it and they became and still are friends with what was that presidents name of Russia yet Gorbachev they became friends with Gorbachev yeah name they mentioned that down Gorky Park in the very beginning that song with the change yeah I was walking right behind yeah yeah remember that while that is that that is a is an awesome story wow was it like that okay so what what part of what time a year was this concert summer there was it was in August like I think August 10 relies it's too that's two months before the Berlin wall comes down right so here they are right for all that out like all that was brewing okay I was wondering to see I'm not a journalist I'm not a photojournalist but I mean it was stirring in me like should I hop over to Germany right now but I I didn't I just you know that I was honored kind of an assignment I finished my assignment but they just had some crazy times remember in Hunt for red October and the secret Soviet subbase in Murmansk right it's not a secret Soviet subbase and I was in Murmansk and it's a huge channel and we were looking at these possible sites for this ship salvage yard and it was a dairy, beer and we had a like a handler that's probably KGB guy and I have my camera and there is a Russian nuclear submarine going down the channel and you said you know see that you can take photographs of this way will not take photographs that you know the thing is I was on a Navy base as well I was in Quincy class World War II submarine shooting the insides are possible scraps and same kind of thing I was just so happy that they trusted me to be there it's like the last thing I wanted to do even though they'd never see the film but I just you know that integrity I didn't want to be causing any I've so happy to be there you know and everything but at the dairy commune they were so proud of their milk you know and it was like fresh out of the cow and I know that's really healthy but I really haven't had it in my buddy Brian is a prankster so they bring out this you note these friend I made fresh out of the cow their warm there's a lot of stuff look around and there's so out of it and the looks on their face and right goes I don't drink milk but my friend Rick does love so I just take it like a tequila shot as you move down the hatch look Rick like it so much he would like another that is awesome fresh fish meal got I have had personal get no it's not but it's just you know I would try for it to Braum's yeah exactly and say that I just think of Woody Harrelson in that movie oh how we don't have a cow we had a whole is attacking. Yeah that's good stuff so you went to Russia did you goad on any other is nothing that's kinda crazy considering the time you went to the USSR when they really were pivoting for survival just before they not breaking up what was it like to go there it Hail Mary it was an amazing time at all on the on the assignment that I was on for the ship salvage company we went to Estonia and Estonia was one of the Baltic republics it was breaking away like the USSR was breaking in that time and so I shot photographs of the scrap place and it was it was great because there were these really nice women operators in the crane's you know lifting the scrap up with magnets and everything so I shut their photographs was back in Moscow it's like you're running into people all the time of you know just unbelievable opportunities and sups are rented to somebody from time ask where I'd been I told him to gears please give me all that film and so they because Estonia was breaking away he wanted to see if I have anything that they could run unfortunately they wanted kind of protest in the street and I had been in the scrapyard so II nothing ran of mine and that but it was Rand you know all my film got ran for free at the time lab that gets back into the new sensationalism time has to sell so they need drama like Estonia breaking away and there's a woman doing hello protesting two blocks away when I left Alice a friend of mine at one of the the commercial equipment houses said look Rick there are things you really need to not do while you're there I know you know your background in Playboy don't shoot any like cityscape shots of the whole city that's prohibited don't shoot any nudes here this whole list for me to not do and don't bring any money back I successfully did all of those things I shop that I wasn't to it just happened so I was in Estonia I ran into a whole group and I shot some Knudsen I was shooting the hell I mean I realize that you spent 20 years shooting nude so it's no big deal to you but I mean so I was Eric and I were traveling we bumped into a group ever got naked some group that I shot some you know it's interesting it is at that time it was the first and I what like in asking how I got my break for Playboy what I was an assistant I got to know some the editors and so is always pitching staff hey I'm going to rush you guys need anything you know maybe and so one of the editors said litmus is top-secret were doing the first ever pictorial of the women of Russia and tested first and add I don't mean that in a funny way like a Cheech and Chong away but like you might be able to help me out so call me when you're there so I met the photographer who was a fashion photographer shooting this I saw his film which was very blue and he said well it is my style I like people to look dead and so I called the editor is like Jeff he likes people to look dead I'm here I could man I could shoot this I saw the models models are rate like no Rick this has to be done by a Russian photographer but I need you to help them to talk to them I want you to talk to him we need to get the skin tones back on track he handled that a guess I need you to bring some of this film back the skin tones back on track we need to look live live Greyhound stand so I smuggled back half the pictorial and it was so I had a friend in Venezuela that was half Russian his mom was Spanish his father's Russian is born Venezuela she had moved to the Soviet Union for all this new big stuff if you traded in rubles at the bank it was like eight rubles to a dollar and things were expensive if you traded them on the black market it was like 50 rubles to a dollar it was an amazing difference and so at the end of this I had all these rubles so when I went to go through customs I kept a few for souvenirs and I handed the guy like a tremendous amount of rubles so my film had no problem no had to alter his Tigre here have said that's only look at the pictures Brian was more worldly than I and we were trying to get into restaurants to eat because of the stuff we are eating was all like salad and Vorster.I do know anyway we can get into this restaurant so Brian also grew up on the border I grew up in like Oklahoma and the border of Mexico and Texas those two places just back and forth and so is called more diva and he put some money in the palm of his hand and he shook the guys hand that was outside of the restaurant all let me show you to your table we walk in there's no one in the restaurant so we learned that's how it operated everything you wanted to do was possible with money in your hand and after that you know the world was our oyster everything everything opened up towards your life that did you take any other comparable overseas trips where you felt like you you are on alert for how you interacted with locals the government like you did Russia you know what I get pulled over once in a while I was my mama took on a trip up to Oklahoma and it was you know that was tough and I'm getting her back she's been nine hours in the truck you know and she's only doing this because of her trust for me she's never her memory of my brother and I have never every day she calls me Ricardo that's my name and she's like Ricardo you like your name I gave you that day and we have this conversation does not every day and so her trust in me and in my brother is absolute so I'm driving or the sole way we get 10 minutes from the house I get pulled over and the guy comes up and I rolled down my window like officer I know is going 55 and he goes so well one year license plate lights as I said really because I have this checked you might fight it out and look at it I go around to look at their both on hobo officer there both on just why couldn't see it from 250 feet I said will you have to take that up with Chevrolet I don't make the truck I just drive it and he gets let me just go ahead and run your license so then I that's they're saying you coming back from coming back from Oklahoma and when he didn't he just pulled me over to run my tags your license so after he gets out I said look I know you're under pressure to do this I just want to tell you that I've been in a police state I've been in the USSR when it was USSR I've been stared down by a police officer on literally when he said the son who's going to blink first. I mean it's a stair for a long time just looking at you see and what you're gonna do because they can do it and I said this is the United States I value the freedoms here and you're better than this you need to go back to your commanding officer and tell him about this you don't just pull people over because you want to run their tax now that's happened to me a few times and I give them the same speech and they always get rid of me quickly like I'm not the guy they really because I can keep going on about this and it's important to me as it happened it happened it's happened three times once I was driving a van going from South Texas to Oklahoma and up like somewhere around Austin Highway Patrol literally turned around came over and pulled me over because the van because it's Nash this is when they could take your vehicle if you had anything any like a seed in it anything they could take it so I guess you know what its national drug day I'd like to search your van I said you know what go ahead so as he starts searching I give him this whole spiel on what it's like to be in the USSR crushed the captains chair is okay but like my mom was like that you know for her being asked for her Social Security number was criminal because in her generation they were promised that Americans would always be individuals you would never be a number this would never be used as identification and that's what it is that and generations later oh here's my Social Security number you know your number were held hostage to two minute that goes for a pretty good price on the dark web etc. because people can use it to gain access to your credit etc., while downturn event like that is oh I thought you're going to go into a lifelike commercial thought that maybe I have anything and my brother has my brother found did you just take each other's note my brother my brother found the person that stole his identity and so I thought you know what I can do that too so I found a the guy that took my and as you you know it was it was somebody I'd met somebody that I had a house on lovers Lane where I had a studio had roommates he had grabbed my mail and I backtracked and somebody like American Express called me and said Mr. Moore the card that was canceled for identity theft is trying to be reopened and so I proved that I was a real Rick Moore I said can you tell me the phone number this person's call and he did and which was really cool on his part I went to that office with stick boy and I said somebody here did identity theft on me at this office so I didn't find who it was because there were 30 extensions but I have it gave me a clue so with those clues you know is able to kind of start putting together I turned it into you know that the Dallas police I don't know if anything happened but I ran into a homicide officer that help me on some of this and he said he had identity theft and even I was a police officer they to do anything about it while does it make any sense either yeah but I see this being some sort of WGN new series I'm Rick Moore but when the cops really like to settle you out on top of being a pilot comedian you now can can reverse engineering find is still in your identity I'm only student pilot and you get because anything I do are very careful about like I didn't say I was a Playboy photographer until after Playboy sent me a card saying I was a Playboy photographer and that assistant and stagnate stabbing the back he assisted me like 10 times and started telling people is a playboy photographer so that kind of thing irks me so and being a pilot you know that I started to do it as a hobby it is super entailed I mean navigation all the things you have to cut just operating the radio sure it's very intense and so I I get going on it and then I get into another project like Redbud medical MJ and then I have to kinda shut down the pilot thing but I as we had discussed earlier right I bought a small airplane I got a really good deal on it and so it's kinda throwing my hat over the wall like I bought a camera before as a Playboy photographer but I had every intention of becoming a Playboy photographer so awesome I have an idea that I would like to up the ante on the on the prize okay so if we get a photograph of anybody going to read but medical injury should you picture with Christie with corn nuts hornets you will get a free bottle of CBD nice open give you a free bottle of trying to okay and then did you happen to be in the process of going through a destination wedding Rick Moore will fly you to your destination he will then shoot the wedding as the wedding photographer you will see the pre-dance tell a few jokes because you did do the comedy class and then during which it probably will have to be like an Orthodox type long ceremony you will at least try to solve any unresolved crimes of either wedding card according to my availability so there is a prize making you go to read but the picture now you wanted to talk about comedy Court company company right here know it all went well this is me a quick yet improv classes yes so I want Rick's feedback here we got about three minutes to run through this great little thing but I ran across a study and basically a new survey presented by water quality and health Council found that 51% of Americans reported using a swimming pool is a communal bathtub during summertime and they you know I was a lifeguard I know this all comes. Even though 64% of Americans know that pool chemicals do not eliminate the need for shower date is doing anyway and the fact that day year and will actually deactivate the chlorine it's in there and deactivate it yeah does sign in and I was even more awesome is that 48% of adults admitted to yet still painful so it just that 90 I will drink alcohol to flow down the Guadalupe Guadalupe Raritan everybody said you like nobody's gotten out. Our feet per second is going up because the waters right is urinating PS so the last part of this it led me to find this Yale study and they know I'm sorry there's a twitter there was a twitter question they came out by guy named Connor Arp well and it just simply said do you wash your legs when you take a shower and so I got over 3000 likes and over 800,000 respondents which is a lot I think for a Twitter question and essentially it got me thinking that a lot of people don't intimately think don't think about what they still do or hold is probably the last thing an American adult has a is a period of intimacy on you know how you shower not really thinking about what it is that other people are doing when they shower because you don't you'll see people in the shower so do you wash your legs when you shower I mean I think I do not use soap and I'd I scrub but then it is they had some other questions on there like do you ever shave and shower if you're done it right that's the only way I shave okay and I have a tough beard with soft skin sure so I use my plate like there was one Playboy editor that was really nice to me Kevin he's the one that gave me the Hawaiian Tropic assignment which was because Rick when people think of you as a Playboy photographer this is what they think of me having drinks by the pool with 120 models you know and so it was as she it's an oil's real small bottle and just put you know it it's so good in the shower that is the best that well II saving showers is convenient and it takes all the whiskers off whenever I trim around it just makes it that much easier data well Rick I really appreciate you coming on the show today and it is read by medical NJ dispensary in Oklahoma City the Josh of some trades I love it and goes… Yours forever if every wash in your store in Jill's Bonnet with this, trying to absolutely absolutely yes but other than that no discounts can I just do a shout out to Jay Shanker who was a young attorney that we were hailing the same cab in Moscow he turned out to be from Oklahoma entertainment attorney from TV and he's helping me with the show oh well yeah also 30 years later that's awesome that's awesome Jay shut up you can't like that was a great show Rick some time to do this that was about 12 This is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun clear spoony and now I found from Geico motorcycle it took 15 minutes to take a spirit animal quiz online please be the cheetah please be the cheetah and learn your animal isn't the cheetah but before less appealing blog fish come on let insult to injury you could've used those 15 blood fish minutes to switch your motorcycle insurance to Geico Geico 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on motorcycle insurance
Robo Hendrickson is a lifelong inspired entrepreneur and philanthropist. "Be Good. Do Good." is the epitome and slogan of FullBucket Health and for Robo himself. Robo and his partners have built a company that researches and produces incredible supplements to protect the health of horses, dogs, & cats. Gut health is a pillar of their current projects, and for each and every purchase, a portion goes directly to other parts of the world to educate local and impoverished families on proper animal health care, incentivize veterinary practice, and actually foster sustainable economic growth.
Robo is a serial entrepreneur and an accomplished visionary. He tells his story of growing up in South Dakota as his father used the family home for a vet clinic to care for working animals and pets. Later becoming a collegiate and then professional bareback rodeo competitor, Robo found his biggest joy was in creating and executing vision for companies and products that could deliver good to the world.
This episode is very inspiring, and you can really see Ken and Eric just get taken into Robo's story telling as he paints a tangible picture with just words.
Also- Special Call in from Linda Snider, MD- Living with Ataxia
Be Good. Do Good.
Protest your pets here:
https://fullbuckethealth.com
Nebraska Ataxia Organization
https://nebraskaataxia.org
Atrantil
https://lovemytummy.com/spoony
https://gutcheckproject.com
Hey hi Mandy if you don't know me it's probably because I'm not famous but I did start a men's grooming company called Harry's the idea for Harry's came out of a frustrating experience I had buying razor blades most brands were overpriced overdesigned and out of touch and here is our approach is simple here's our secret we make sharp durable blades and sell them at honest prices for as low as two dollars each we care about quality so much that we do some crazy things by world-class German blade factory obsessing over every detail means were confident in offering 100% quality guarantee millions of guys have already made the switch to Harry's so thank you if you're one of them and if you're not we hope you give us a try with the special offer get a Harry starter set with a five blade razor weighted handle shave gel and a travel cover all for just three bucks plus free shipping just go to Harry's.com and enter 5000 at checkout that's Harry's.com code 5000 enjoy alright it's time for the object project with your host Dr. Kim Brown MD I married Grigor will forget dead Jim Collins on the board is you Patrick in the booth at GCP we all check our ego at the door and nothing is off the table it's episode number 10 were now in double digits long we just attend that's also nothing off the table I think we got something really cool over the show today are gastric and start talking animal health that's a new one for us it is a brand-new and present is more than just animal health domain you can actually confuse you can actually help people all around the world by engaging with our guests company and course are talking about Robo Hendrickson cofounder of full bucket health and full bucket is a company it is taking action with innovation and charity and making tangible differences all over the world they have a parent company called animal stewards international couple other smoke companies under that umbrella but regardless Robo is going to be easily fantastic as organist show our audience that if you you come accustomed to what we been doing to type things are unchangeable that is can be a lot of fun that his daughter bring a lot of different stores the table here is that a lot of different industries and you'll actually know health animal health human health there is a lot of overlap including things like CBD services this could be a really cool topic I can't wait to pick his brain we know he's here to show how they can make it easy for you to help impoverished people from all corners of the world basically for axis small is just feeding your pets it's asking a lot to say but full bucket health is a high level research company for animal health and they have a passion for helping all animals pets working livestock they know that in many parts of our planet the people depend upon the health the contributions of animals and to carry out daily living Robo and his team have created a very humane initiative to help those animals and then on top all at ease be actually funny as hell so and then in this first half hour also came across a really cool article linking we always talk about the brain got access now the science started to catch up to give the mechanisms of how this is so I can't wait to get to that that when it gets it's pretty inventive as I'm driving I know I know I just left I found that actually done right around the corner over here Texas Christian University and just published this month nice will be sure if this is your first or 10th time to tune in to get checked project be sure to subscribe like in share subscribe I can share I'm available in the way number one thank you all for the messages that the people who ask who are you have next in the show the comments from from before but go to gut check project.com and you can hit connect you can write to us about any show ask any questions send them to me or to a Dr. Brown will both read them and then you can go to YouTube search for the gut check project channel subscribe and share the same for iTunes and the coursework were live on iHeartRadio so that's awesome I got some pretty good feedback on our gigantic box gigantic box of the front seal here is so upfront to deal we develop this to help people with bloating abdominal discomfort and we can show that really growth and fortify people benefit by taking this and I see every single day in my clinic and were to talk will be about gut health and the gut brain Access upfront you can help with that so where should they go to get huge discounts as big as this box they can always go to love my tummy.com/spooning love my tummy.com/spoony use the code that's on that page which is just spooning it sparely and save money save money heal your guide don't blow it anymore love my Tommy.com we should run a contest to see how many outrun teal boxes or capsules can fit into the big one and do a real big winner when something cool something I don't know I tell you what come up with that and you know it will do that let's let's talk about maybe even the break maybe before in the shogun come out with a contest that any viewer or listener can guess yeah will will through that part out in low-level get back to you by will go to some of our other men I'm sure we can get some really cool make a nice box were somebody could get a lot of the cool stuff that other host its bony radio possibly mojo 50 speaking a box we get an important call today to finalize something here don't we do have a box with a box we'll call a very important call to finalize a few things about the box they went to a date and well worked out last week we had Jacob around was talking about the D hat member box the D hat health box were finalizing a few things on that and we just came back from Scottsdale where we were with JJ Virgin and she offered to be on the call with us today to try and just make sure that were doing everything correctly because she's so experienced at doing that with her other brand and she's been doing it which are they just super cool so today were to try and get some business advice from JJ on how to do this properly so that everyone benefits for the one thing that I can tell you that she puts as a priority in terms of how she handles people to buy things from her on all of the health things that she delivered she make sure that everything is true to its word and that customer service is priority so that's deftly what she's trying to make certain that the hat does it's funny because it reminds me of an email that I got from Dana she's interested in the hatbox Hashimoto joke and said is that is a gigantic deal benefit in the I highly doubt it and laugh but she didn't want to know when does it launch and can I sign up a family member which is not really some that we covered last week but yes Dana thank you and I did write you back but for those others who had similar questions you just simply have to go to D hatbox.com and you will be given the information right away as soon as they launch which may be as early as next week I believe there's a two small negotiations I think is what he had said they're doing to make sure they have it all put together but amazing service that there really giving to their patient is down so the only thing that I really want to do for my partners is maybe just a quick little webinar so that the employees so that if you happen to be local when you go in and see your doctor ask about of the employees the deal front desk people the medical assistance will know all about the boxes well so that everybody can be part of a team to really help and like we discussed last week change the health landscape in a city that's what I think is the coolest thing that were to be able to do it we can do it here in the city of almost 8 million people or or a metro area that many people we know that at the sample size you can take that everywhere so that'll be a little be very exciting yeah so just last weekend so I kinda mentioned real briefly that we are with JJ Virgin this past week and we were actually in Scottsdale for our healthcare unsecured group known as the Meiser mastermind group I love hanging with those people that are so smart so cool and something you know we talked a lot of people I met somebody who I'm a big fan of Dr. Terry Walz she's so brilliant yeah she wrote the walls protocol my good friend Linda Snyder introduced me to her oh man two years ago because she said you have to read this book she actually suffers from something kind of similar to MS that Dr. walls as essentially treated with diet using this protocol right Linda action is a form of ataxia and she said that using the diet protocols well and so I've been familiar with the Dr. walls for a long time so is really cool to hang with her and talk a little bit and that one of the coolest things is that with this big group of supersmart people there was an impromptu band formed with the masterminds how elusive I get this without getting a glare on it yeah so I have noted in this video I know he is not this action off my phone weird going to if you're listening okay is upstairs it's just a warm-up is okay as is now as I was really funny so you busted your warm-up is nice to have what I do have a Scott Antoine on the base there is let out into one of the base we had Darren Engels now this is a here maybe this is this is as the night went on you guys finally started to play so that's what happens when you get super smart people just throw some instruments around their ability I used to play that 20 years ago abandoned our hosting a throwback radio show so badly I really minutes that's awesome I had about a blast doing out of those folks if you're a musician once musician you always wanted to get together and jam 7000 tons of funds I really appreciate to call KJ Bailey Panetta get a minute was that was it was fun that will in his name also Sammy on guitar goodness gracious guy can rip as awesome I love that so yeah because of the incredible troubles really fun doing that go to the mastermind that was awesome when also I do I was on Debbie Potts is the whole athlete podcast cells fund that is really cool as it turns out she's going to be in the mastermind I believe we are discussing interference and entering the whole health in your into after athletics her her podcast is quite interesting it's pretty awesome whole whole athlete great yes it's called the whole athlete Debbie pot so other than that as far as the family goes where that star test season sets, with its talk about oh they go to the startups you have United taxes it's ridiculous don't don't bother standardized test don't go to sleep look it up online is awesome so but everything else is going cool from our standpoint about you diving is good trip to Arizona was terrific great to rekindle with a lot of those great friendships and I keep the business minds alliance that you know you 70 people well but way home you're with me I Slim I found my pocket lost in an uber big shout out to Stefon Huber driver from Phoenix and thank you for overnighting my phone to make is that is that it was nice but I will say I took a break from the phone for a whole today's bad I liked it collected a lot so if you ever feel like yourself get a little overwhelmed the phone on silence and go somewhere else is that today's way would you know how they were talking about what if we go back to Austin for the for another mastermind I think you're looking at hotel more evil think okay I looked up and they got a hold like it's like phone free hotel campus and how well you can just lock it up and put in the sleeping bag so the next sort of take your phone from you so you can just disconnect elastomer went to Jack White concert they had us put our phone so you want take video and you won't take photos wanted him on the stage you have you put I came out with a call to Q bag or something like that but you basically put it in this pouch you keep it think it's fun it's awesome it makes everybody be in the moment oh yeah is really really cool so other things happen I came home and I know if you know this or not but actually do I know you and nobody listeners you may not know this my wife I love the life she likes to run the menagerie at our house so I came home to another new dog thanks for having told Ken about this yet BSA nice Aussie came running down the stairs… That an Aussie and that little I think it is really bad at recognizing specific breeds but regardless the AC is a pretty cool dog 32 years old but apparently his owner lost in my life contacted contacted her she's she's elderly can't I can't keep her so boys of Artie named him about seven different names and were traveling have a feeling that he's he's now a permanent fixture in the speaking of Marie and a podcast and of Wise County taxes if you've ever heard of Ater from Decatur County see allies why your old craps they now podcast up there called wise weekly and Marie was on there just as last week I think on their third ever episode talking about the happenings around Wise County so if you care about that region and are curious about eight or from Decatur did not chicken that's awesome pay for our listeners out there I would like to define menagerie oh yeah sorry about that menagerie a collection of wild animals kept in captivity for exhibition that's what we do Marie is becoming beneficial Del Toro the collector from guardians of the galaxy that's what we want to do and we done with these sweet chickens in Maine if apparently we already are no kill shelter also known as my home no kill shelter yes so then we would like to contribute their animal so that Marie can continue collecting wild animals kept in captivity for exhibition otherwise known as a menagerie to just pretend like you can't take care of anymore and apparently safe at our house while on the spinning network I did give a listen to the rich solution you had talked about it earlier and Gwen Rich is the author of stop complaining she was diagnosed with an incurable breast cancer and she's basely to challenge that entire diagnosis she spreading her own influence of positivity and basically you can create your own good luck it was an awesome show it's Wednesdays live 10 Eastern nine Central on Spinney.com on the spinning network that's the rich solution with gray and rich it is lovely because it tied in so well to what we've learned from the but well with with good health making great food choices etc. but when Winmark was on the show talking about his cancer prognosis me they said that nobody's live he's nine years out he still here is doing great so what episode was a traveling on episode number three look from Mark Semel and Mark Simone and the survivor of cancer so it's really interesting about about the shows at each show has something different that I really like about church say which was your favorite show Mike I can't pick one because each one of the with different some are more emotional somewhere more scientific thinking today were to laugh a lot I think today Robo's gonna bring some laughs there's probably very little very little doubt last thing only now I did all that so were all caught up so Ken was on the corner you want to geek out in some science right now I think we should so always talk about how all health begins and ends in the gut and an article came out just this month out of Texas Christian University TCU what they were looking at is this a linking gut inflammation and how it can actually cause brain inflammation and then the brain inflammation can affect us in ways that possibly we are completely unaware of like decision-making and impulse control so let's give a little background about this and the reason why we brought about trying to heal is that we talk about SEBO a lot small intestinal bacterial overgrowth but given the limitations about how to diagnose that there is some confusion around that we don't really understand how prevalent it is or how many people actually have it but what we do know is that the microbiota or or micro biome which were always talking about desert mojo talk about at all times to look everyday the time of the story on that right or despite Elsa's growth in a way that it shouldn't be or drawing word should not be which is bacterial overgrowth has been linked to inflammation and autoimmune diseases that we do know now our intestines have a tight junction in our brains have one also called the blood brain barrier this is the first time that I have seen an article where they showed mechanistically that the tight junction in the intestine similar to the blood-brain barrier right all may have died and you have an hour talking gut brain and that the two barriers can be very similar just to reset if you're listening in and this is these are new terms for you essentially the barrier the blood brain barrier is there to prevent certain small things from passing over into the brain tissue correct and so those people that have suffered from this have heard of a term called leaky gut right I methodically could bring no that's it it's pretty wild so new evidence showing that intestinal permeability or leaky gut can actually be caused by molecule called zombie will and don't worry about the this science is your part but design you will and is now been shown that it can cause blood brain barrier permeability in other words is only because what you got any calls we could bring this is the first time in articles actually looked at something like this because we've always been trying to discuss that there is this if you have intestinal inflammation or I have been saying this for long time that that is been linked to other problems like anything that can create problems in the brain well quite honestly we talked about Dr. Terry walls but one of the reasons why her wall protocol changing your diet may help is because you stop this inflammatory process and the multiple sclerosis plaques don't form as much so that something to keep in months another's evidence to show that chronic intestinal inflammation has been linked to autism Parkinson's Alzheimer's psychiatric disorders and all the stuff so here's a mechanism of how to it because we have this microbiota got brain access it gets really complex in the brain talks to the micro biome the micro Barnum send signals to the break it could be done to the vagus nerve but can also be done through hormones are archly being released and different inflammatory mediators at all this other stuff bottom line is you need to make sure that you protect your micro biome because it's communicating with your brain and if you have this bios was in the wrong place that intestinal permeability gets a little bit out of control so they're looking at this and they realize that not only will you have information but you can start affecting what's called the HPA axis or the hypothalamus pituitary axis there were showing that when you've got information you have increased cortisol which leads to more information and now we have that model of okay fight or flight all the time follow me here so far yeah I am so far have you got to the study yet they had to do all this background actually explain why they want to do this particular type of study so this increased stress through cortisol in this inflammatory process could be causing a few other things this is kind of like a mini course in the brain got access they theorized that when you have things like this going on not only can you have these diseases overlong. What if you induce an inflammatory response in the gut and how does it affect you in the short term okay so they took 159 people without any prior history of mental illness any prior history of any got issues and then what they did is they injected them with an inflammatory mediator okay meaning, to create gut inflammation actually do something called like a polysaccharide at all like a polysaccharide is the it said the coding of a bacterial cell right so this is the thing that actually leaks through when you have intestinal permeability in the body reacts to it and then that leads to this whole inflammatory process started just to summarize your saying that they use basically an artificial trigger to show that Greg and were going to induce some gut inflammation let's see what happens I'll take it further they used an artificial SEBO trigger also I actually induced how the body responds to bacterial overgrowth will okay and what they showed was pretty wild so what happened is when they injected this it created a subclinical level of inflammation that they could measure by measuring all these different parameters they wanted to know that when you have this inflammatory process it crosses the blood brain barrier meaning now you create a little bit of brain inflammation what do to the immediate thought process it can be good is fascinating what it showed that what they found is that this information even subclinical inflammatory processes in healthy people led to poor decision-making lack of impulse control characterized by lack of focus an inability to delay gratification which is fascinating and they actually show that there was some movement towards somewhat destructive behavior like gambling and things like that even in the short so they should with these people that the low-level inflammatory process kinda leads to some social processes which can lead to a destructive style of life wow that was just a curiosity was Charlie Sheen one of these one of the subjects so Charlie Sheen was actually the the cofounder and the leader of this at Texas Christian University letter he is so anyways I just really wild because basically what they're getting at here is I see this with my patients all the time patients come in and will save man I was perfectly fine and then five years ago I got sick and that I been bloated ever since quite honestly I'm super anxious and depressed I don't really want to be around people so one of the things that they saw was anhedonia were people did not want to socially interact with the had these inflammatory markers up so I have seen firsthand that when I treat people's guts and they get better without trying to and we decreased the neuro- inflammatory process with the CBD that I will have people tell me you think you're just a whole lot better I've always wondered why like this it is at the gut now we realize that the judge creating this inflammatory process I would love to hear from people that if you ever experience anything like that like maybe a cool story after taking out trying to heal and KB MD CBD that maybe do you a fortnight addiction or whatever addiction that you might have gets better hello we can start treating addiction medicine through the gut that's amazing is it – he doesn't even surprise me if it seems like every time I turn around you're going to find that mother nature has an answer as multifaceted just be healthy just slow down the inflammation and what is it that we can do wild how much it ties back to you don't have to eat crazily you don't have to do a bunch of crazy stuff it's just use mother nature polyphenols CBD better diet good exercise get good sleep and suddenly you tell yourself get on the Betty pillars of health it really is there just awesome if you could just know that every single month something cool is going to come to your house so that you could have these things to help you with your pillar of health heal your gut protect your brain get you to sleep well and feels that might be some foreshadowing while who knows maybe maybe you have an answer that sometime soon left ON you know what it such as humans that experiences like that but you have a new dog maybe you know separation anxiety in animals sure there's other things that can actually happen with animals now maybe we have a reason why that's going on also and possibly things like CBD can help animals what they want it we've got less than a minute but here joined the show as we hinted at earlier it's going to be Robo Hendrickson he's got incredible knowledge his company's debt is deftly dedicated to research for better animal health and they do it with a an arm for charity which can make a difference worldwide so little Hendrickson will be here and I think he'll be able to address a lot of that the funny thing is is not only are they interested in is better health they know that so much of the health of those animals including large animals comes through the gut and they're actually willing to add to kind of expand that idea research role vesicles for developers were to dig a little bit go to love my Tommy.com/spoony putting code spooning for this, not trying to absolutely KPMG health.com will see you here at the bottom of the hour and just two minutes if you are trying to quit drinking or doing too many drugs listen to me you don't know me and will never meet I had a problem like you want I drank and used a party a little too much till it got out of control and almost ruined my life I realize I needed help to fix my problem before it totally destroyed me if you tried to fix your drinking and drug problem and you know you can't do it alone you need to call the national treatment advisors they'll immerse you into a 30 day program to replace your old habits with new habits and totally change your life and if you have PPL private health insurance the entire program may be covered fix your problem right now before it gets any worse get clean call now and learn more 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 fast-track student loans can get your student loans out of the vault stop any wage garnishments stop collection calls and stop seizure of your tax refund give yourself a break to stop the stress and get your student loan payments down to as little as $25 a month based on what you can afford to pay 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 now you can fly anywhere in the world and paid discount prices on your airline tickets flight today to Lundy's harassment to read or anywhere else you want to go and pay a lot less guarantee quality international travel department right now low-cost airlines 800-452-1075 800-452-1075 that's 800-452-1075 okay we are now back for the second half hour episode to neglect a project I married Grigor here with your host Ken Brown and now to my right we got the Robo Hendrickson of Photobucket health as well as well just whole ton of other companies with the Robo hey guys thanks for having me absolutely thanks for driving the whole 22 minutes ago here is like 45 minutes I think total so get a new window snow trail to five minutes as this should take in the tunnel I should should you have enough doctors in a tunnel so either way that Manso full bucket health and with us we start with the you got to get smash factory yeah Dragon yes rock animal health so much of that falls underneath the angles of all your companies I'm busy I'm a partner and most of them/bacterium I'm you know is just my baby but the others on partners and because I found that I'm really not good a whole lot so you surround myself with good people and partner Alonso was exactly how we met means basically setting surrounded by by good folks and that brought together course I will get that in the second but when you're really good friends course at Michael Lovett she is the reason why yeah we met which is awesome so just to take the listers back you may not know little about Robo you grew up in South Dakota you are in rodeo yes and that your dad was a yeah I was of a veterinarian as well now my brother still runs is a lamp clinic all of South Dakota yeah so yeah I'm you know growing up in western South Dakota was a stretch to you know we we we had it dad was not only a practicing veterinarian but the love of his life was ranching so we also had a ranch and so dad not only worked his guts out you know going on calls and pulling calves in the wintertime but then he come home and feed you don't burn the ranch and you'll growing up that was just how we we grew up into my first jobs were scooping out the stalls and cleaning cages and and when I was little boy and so he had to work on this one absolutely amazing are actually the first clinic he launched when when he first got into his meal started his own practice and left the practice he was working for it was in our house our kitchen turn table turned into the operating table and that I got here one of those stories so yeah he he he moved stainless steel big old table in the in the kitchen and the the front entryway porch we had a couple couches that was the waiting room removed my me and my brother out of one room into in with my sister in the back and turned our room into the recovery room yeah so that's we did that in our little barn on the place and turn that into the large animal clinic and then probably live like I know what else I don't remember how long we live like that but I remembered that he moved a double wide mobile home next door with the basement under we moved in there and thought we were in a palace because that was no longer the clinic and that was our house and on and he was in that practice for several years and then he moved to a better location and built a nice practice and it still there today and you know it was sold to a big chain of of clinics in the My brother and my brother started managing after my mom retired she was the she was the bookkeeper accountant nice nice you know customer service skills let me just jump in the really quick so just informed by producer Jeff that solely from the first hour that I had mentioned Linda Snyder is called in from Omaha Nebraska limit you there skillet did you hear me mention your name for our now now now so have real dad I know longer he was just on the story about how he got kicked out of his bedroom to make a recovery room you know you're over there is a radiologist just a nice controlled area you know that I don't know some would not consider a real job either Linda where do a great one of the people that were our guest today is Robo and he worked for over he owns a company called full bucket we got to talk to were to get into this later but they are to do some charitable work and since I met Terry walls as we can you name got brought up a lot and I just thought it be really cool for maybe you explain your experience that what you been going through and what you're hoping to do I laughed out loud now about 21 years old now and I knew I had a genetic charter for my dad and how they did have a big chain and get paid and he and I have a cannot play with I knew I had chronic debilitating. He called my dad heavily against me incarnation or difficulty walking my like catalytic activity or anything like that having a child and to lock hello I need a backhand that claim to be an election and they told me that I end up in about A 40 I'm audit now and let Which is great that they really don't I can't help anyway I am sorry if the heating get family and other people who have me that they may be taken then hit their take a proactive role in trying to heal I let her down the path that his book Mike came to help might have chemo content and to lay his hand and a little bit to call thinking you really made like brown patch like an alert like yeah man, hot dog given it well make the difference in my life started slowly and I can't really just jump into anything I had to make his kind: Clinton Franey and Gary Frei. He had not I like that and things like that then she said to getting into my like getting more and I got frame and having here and I can't think like you all knifing time together I think really hard for me and my knee flight down to the point where other people are like fishing and I are shocked look good I'm getting very wet back that's exactly what you said whenever she first started changing the way that she ate and then she made Linda this is Eric and that's an amazing story that you've you put yourself in that contradictory but talking to Terry she she said the people in believing her Terry actually going to be listed in this director told me that she's trying to set up with University a randomized trial were looking at MS people using just the wall protocol versus traditional MS drugs just comparing that to stewardess so I think it's a I think your huge I think anybody suffering from any chronic neurologic disorder needs to hear your story and I think one of the things that you discovered that you realize that a lot of you don't have access to we I have sponsored your charity for three years in a row to tell people a little bit about what you're trying to do for those with ataxia I think that it really only cover part of what you really me tell you how to prepare a medication that you ship timeshare ABB or getting getting tired of having a wheelchair ramp happy I have a banshee I think I found that there is any financial need in the community and I'm a little bit like how I did that her final MP3 everyone not realizing how much work like companies that are exactly like ship this is what many people help their life. But it be better, I applied because were able to happen out and generate a letter back and filled with many different anything unpacking hand and peek at whatever you need help with make your life better weather if you look at our timeshare origin something like crap I have been where I believe a grandparent and never able to help people go to Nebraska ataxia.org right but back to some animals rose just in the middle of tells about his cool upgrade to a double wide trailer in South Dakota Dakota thank you that's amazing it's crazy how many parallels there are two I know which what you not talked about for you on them on the Mike Cyr Robo but in terms of health for animals health for humans basically if you want to get the most out of your life and your animals like you have to be healthy and absolutely I can fast-track real quick because there's some neat stuff between then and now you know I when I left the ranch try to go to college for little bit delayed really I realize I wasn't very good at that actually winning the Privette yeah that I come home and I'd see my dad working 16 hours a day slogging through the cold alone I don't know I love animals but not like he does show so I you know I bebop dried was rodeo going at that time and I went and got a college scholarship and I wrote you yeah I know and then and then I went on professionally and your bareback rider correct yeah I got a bareback professionally and did a lot of events when I was younger but how to get into will you know when you grow up on a ranch in South Dakota it's not that big of a stretch to say no horse can you you you that's what you do for nighters that you know we didn't have a lot of that going on but yeah you all your friends are in it and your heroes all rodeo cowboy and that was a it was a culture is really what it was it was a community culture thing in that state is very proud of that culture and so you dreamed of being a Phil Moses because shoes and doing that so you know when I was laid up with it for a while and but there was always something you know I was always really interested in other things like I was really an odd man out can I have been my whole life might my buddies listen to country music and note the things that you know when they were in their off time they would be working on spurs or they were training colts and I was drawing you know furniture in a notebook and I was you listen to you Depeche Mode and massive attack and my interests were about design and art and we would travel all over the country and I wanted to go see the museums you know things like that so is living out later and and did you have little or is this over you just the rest of the family I really don't know no I if you did it it wasn't shared with me a whole lot had to come from somewhere but the I always had this spirit for new things and I knew there was something else out there there you I grew up in an area that was little bit close mind I won't say close minor but there are some blinders on their you know it's just disclosure minded right right and it was like my parents were great they were very loving people but they weren't the you know you can do anything that you view the world is your oyster I get that but here's a story so he goes back to okay now if people some of the following is wrong with door kicked we didn't know it even uses saddle also I was thinking about that when when I was on my drive over here remembered something that so when I was in that old house and that it turned it into clinic can move me and my brother and sister into the back and I my very first memory is the one that I was remembering only some on psilocybin or something my first memory was I am I had to be for five years old because we were still in the old house and it would be a hot summer day in out my back the back window was a was a swing set in there was grass this belly hi everyone backing up we didn't know we having launchers it was not no native pastors everywhere so native grass and was really sick and was all around the swingset and I was the window was open and it was hot outside in the inland South Dakota that means it was 70 and and I was looking out the way I remember looking out the window in the Whippoorwill's were were singing and I know if you've ever heard a whippoorwill saying but that's what made me look out the window and it was blazing hot skies were blue blue blue just a few clouds and I was overcome with this unbelievable feeling I had no idea what was knows little boy but I'm kinda getting like choked up thinking about that feeling it when all over my body and it filled my heart and my soul and I had no idea what it was but it was about the glorious mess of life like how beautiful it was the sound and smell in the view but it was also about the future like I knew your four yeah I knew there was a future coming right and that I know what it was but it was for leg get ready go on expedition and you're really really excited before you go you know it's the anticipation and it just took me over I remember that that moment and I have had that I used to have that moment a lot it would get so excited and I would know so cool was an event happen or even if it's bad it's going to be coolest life and it didn't scare me it just filled me with like love and and I don't like it even tingled and over the years it's become less and less and less you know as you get older you think it's less and less just the experiences you have and you change you know you you go from seeing the future as this amazing I'm going to go to Mars to go see the universe two no watching my dad die just a few weeks ago and you realize though there is that point my life there was no and that was really ironic is it not long after that I actually got obsessed over death like it scared me so bad I was laying in bed tonight I was thinking shift ends I don't that's not good wanted and you know it was you can remember so clearly Brink is what you do is you painted a picture that story I knew exactly what was going on that is so embedded in the printed and you yeah that's one thing what you think we have less of it because you're describing it to a point where I think you can go back to that whenever you want when when you when you have that type that's that neurolinguistic programming type thing you can trigger Aiken I wanted to find out what a whippoorwill sounded like okay I have I sleep so that's going on that get you to look you that you all hope yeah and I'm sorry to hear about your father a few weeks ago now you're sitting around going this is but you can recant that story so vividly that that is you that is actually you this is just I think you have the ability to go back to hello and I are other angry you know you get you you know the perils of life the ups and downs and the experiences slowly come to Calais you mean and I don't mean that in the we know a physical way like calluses on my hands from just doing work you know is as a protective nature it's therefore get calluses for reason I think that's part of your physical makeup to that you you grow calluses visit you know mentally psychologically to protect yourself and to you know as you go through life without question yeah absolutely and when you're when your kids are it's often very very thin and as you get older it's thicker and harder and it's to prepare you or maybe I don't know but yeah I do when I get the opportunity think back on on those memories that it does like I said on my way over here got goosebumps thinking about the whippoorwill that the grass blowing in the future and but I think I was lucky to have that moment and and pay attention to it because it really change me and the people I was surrounded with and that's why was different was that I was a dreamer really if you want to call that that's really what it was I was a big dreamer and and so I was always dreaming should and I like to write it down and elected notes might be poetry one day it might be aggressive furniture houses or inventions I have just stacks of notebooks over the years inventions and so home of fast-forward I was actually rodeo going and I think it was in Colorado or Arkansas somewhere and I Met a bull rider and he him and I and a couple of the guys stayed up at a hotel because it's what you do you thereby shacks up safe journey and you won one room in 20 guys and I guess so so so we would we were staying up and play music and writing songs and talking in and he somehow everybody's got past I was just him and I and we were sharing those stories about he was an artist and he would draw on very very very creative Dennis was amazing and soon as I heard that it ran out to the van and grab my stack of notebooks and brought him his arm been 21 two somewhere in there mind somewhere in there was it was it was I tried college I kicked out if the road I was just doing no construction and Brody owing and working ranches whatever I could to make a living picture, worthless as a employee when you're rodeo so so II I was somewhere along there and it was at that you know were still kids basically and and I showed them all the stuff and he goes man you you should be a creative director at an agency oh what out of what you have no idea you know what that was all me I never put it together like I did your watch commercials and I listen to my radio but I didn't know there was actually job applying just behind it I just had this vision of like you the next day at the rodeo competition on a bareback agency so so I I'd won a scholarship actually no I had one scholarship I'd gotten offer to go to this little junior college in Kansas in the Coach Lucy was good enough to offer me a scholarship to type my grades and I had actually work my way back up to work it could be collegially sure and and so I did I went to this'll junior-college and got my grades up and then they competed the second year note did good enough that that I won a scholarship at the national college finals and I could kinda use it anywhere wanted to because of the national you know program and by that time no I knew I wanted to kinda what I wanted him to go into some sort of your creative career there's only two colleges in the states that have a rodeo program because you need to go use a rodeo scholarship somewhere whatever rodeo program and no design marketing and you know was sub San Luis Obispo California and Hayes Kansas and so I went out and toward the Cal poly out there in California and for week I stayed with guys were on the team out there and all man the pretty girls in the sunshine and beaches and I was this is is where I'm going till I found out what it cost to you know my scholarship was good for books tuition stuff like that but not not food not only expend as I will ship myself what himself you paid $600 a month and there's five of you living in the shoebox notice or pay attention to what is in causes and I went to Hayes dances that were they had a brew exit route letter program in Hayes and it was a great program and went there and I different courses and slowly started to work in the graphic design and things like that and so then then when I was still rodeo on and I left there and went to Cheyenne frontier days and I tore my knee out and was dating this girl was your first major is this whole time you're talking about no I want to go into that host competition just banged I read for knee surgeries for shoulder surgeries and how many broken bones but that the died I tore my knee out in in Cheyenne and was dating this girl that was living in Texas okay so I went was checked up with her laying on the couch my knee up she is you need a damn job I word my knee you know my knees all bunged up Boyd only done physical labor in no work to us was right and Coulter swinging a hammer pouring concrete and you know and she said all menu you can you know how to design and advertising stuff yeah I forgot about that because when I left college I Jaswant Rhody on so that started the process of me working for an magazine laying out ads in the back of the magazine change my trajectory my life and a whole new chapter and give up my boots and spurs and bought black advertising close in a Range Rover became a Duchamp is a perfect segue working alone old and that was was awesome I was totally drawn in a hammer like that usually so well just a reset we are coming up at the end of the half hour but Robert Hendrickson here with us basically this is an incredible journey of how he took inspiration from his childhood great parents they cared a lot about him gave him lots of direction in terms of what it is you need to do to achieve something he just chose a different path and I cannot wait the next hour to dig into what that path looks like now and how it's helping people around the world around the world so quick to demand as Mooney.com there's plenty of great shows on the lineup in a course if you want to check in with some KB MD CBD go to KB MD health.com that's K BMD health.com will be back in about four minutes to finish our last hour with Rollo Hendrickson of full bucket season this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun clear spoony this hour from Townhall.com, Wall Street has opened sharply lower this morning with trade jitters continuing to trouble the market both here at home and abroad US China trade talks to resume later today Chinese trade negotiators are back here in the nation's capital for more trade talks and this time there staring at a Friday deadline and the possibility of higher tariffs Pres. Trump has threatened to increase tariffs to 25% on some $200 billion of Chinese goods unless a deal is reached that's White House correspondent Greg Clugston Sen. Bernie Sanders and Representative Alexandria LEO Cortez proposing new regulations on banks is to prominent anti-Was making a point of Facebook live stream Sanders describes himself as a democratic socialist because you Cortez known to buddy for her radical proposals like the green new deal their proposals are likely to dispel this criticism from Majority Leader Mitch McConnell Democrats I'm determined to make the current wave of prosperity and economic opportunity short-lived contrast he says to the Republicans Pro opportunity progrowth agenda by noon Capitol Hill VP Penn says the trust administration's had it with activist judges federal district courts issuing rulings blocking national policies and our administration will seek opportunities to put this very question before the Supreme Court to ensure that decisions affecting every American are made either by those elected to represent the American people or by the highest court in the land North Korea Haddad again launching a couple of suspected short range missiles of this second launch in less than a week and on Wall Street the cabbage is all down more than 1% right now the Dow is off 319 points the S&P down 35 the NASDAQ 122 lower part of the story said Townhall.com never forgotten apparel is more than just a premium women's and men's clothing line it's a movement to remind us to wear American-made and serve those who serve us our heroes never forgotten apparel gives 20% of their total sales to nonprofits that support homeless veterans and off-duty firefighters and 50% to individual veterans and firefighters in need nationwide checkout never forgotten apparel.com use promo code Matt and ATT and get 15% off your purchase got an old car you can donate it whether it's running or not to the United breast cancer foundation and save a life they'll even come and pick it up for free the United breast cancer foundation has saved hundreds of women's lives through their free or low-cost breast screening exams but now they need your help the United breast cancer foundation wants to save more lives through early detection by offering women free or low-cost breast screening exams in donating your old car SUV or truck whether it's running or not helps pay for them plus you get a charitable tax deduction help the United breast cancer foundation save lives by donating your old car SUV or truck call now for free pickup 800-245-0823 800-245-0823 800-245-0823 all right now that number again is 800-245-0823 Dr. Kim Brown here a host of project with my cohost Eric Rieger I've seen in my practice that upfront is a whole lot more than just the bloating product yes it is a whole lot more than just exploding because the polyphenols if you find in Alicante what are some of these polyphenols these polyphenols help you have more energy and polyphenols are great that sounds like a hellhole more people than just loading go to love my family.com/welcome back is the second hour of project episode number 10 we are joined on this so with the awesome storyteller Rober Hendrickson of Photobucket health click reset study.com what's it like this and lots of great great shows up and down the playlist and of course you can always check out live broadcasts of gut check project every Thursday 10 Eastern nine central the course is split to support the program love my tummy.com/spoony love my tummy.com/spooning pickup Sumatran teal save some money and I were joined by Robert Henderson today who may be a little interested in good health for animals just like we offer humans absolutely were where we left we just left off your on the couch girlfriend basis that you need to go get a job and didn't Texas right so just talking Fort Worth Geiser was we were living in Botta little 16 foot what long mobile home and drag it out of the mud Burlison ticket Aubrey oh and yeah North Northeast lived there was little trailer park out there set it up in started fixing it up and that was my first fixer-upper house isolation made money selves to ice is a bad so that was I think we lived there a year you're in half and and again so I I consider transition from the rodeo guide to the ad guy I got a job work unit one there is little tweak there that's kind of interesting is that growing up in South Dakota and on ranches in the light of 9 to 5 cubicle job scared the ship out of me very inspiring know you you you think I got it like prison who would do that then and so when she said you need a job you know how to do design and advertising and so I I got she gave me newspaper I found this job working for this magazine some graphic design layout ads in the back amazing so I was a sub magazine player feel like was that no animal magazine or know how it was that there was a conflict of study breaks magazine college publication is based out of Austin they had a UMT version and it said its franchise to a bunch of different angle and so start out just a graphic designer there and you know computers were being used it was laborious process Tobit it was no longer doing Ruby lifting all that stuff but you're laying out magazines and computer Mac and so that was quite experience is 93-ish forests and also Mac was about as big room in one sense of power absolutely I kinda cussed myself because we had for five of them in the office there in Denton I bet there was signature to on some of them inside because they were some of the very first you know Max Shipton but I went to work in laying out these little ads in the in a business owners and come in and sit down with me and we together we can come up with the ad you not be like the size of a business card we spent an hour trying to come up with copy and no offer and I freaking loved it I just as the first job that didn't bore me I would work 16 hours a day just literally look up all shed it's midnight is fastening so some people would view that all would be like prison but your you are free because you're in your own head first time I could actually use it was the first time I use my brain to make money was much money it was making ship but it I was getting paid yeah think I like concept so back to you know that started and then when I*get better and better or I started doing some freelance work around Metroplex and four different ad agencies and I would just do little add stuff layouts and things and then I finally got kind of more of a full-time position at an agency in Fort Worth with a couple ladies and and I got along with one of the partners very very well and I started developing my craft getting better at it and I had a strategic mind I've always never been a really good designer but I love design so I've worked at it very hard I wasn't talented but I have a passion for but I naturally took to strategy but I naturally took to position the brand doing something with that and so she knew you just elaborate on that little bit so your urine ad person but when you say strategies like you already seen the buyer journey yeah I just fall into place in my mind and because I was a dreamer I could manifest the future with it and see what was going to be someday it just immediately, like I know this can be this I can picture the store employee knows that the customers there and everything been looking what you know the experience and but the and we were selling ads these companies would come doesn't want to slap lipstick on a pig and then say we want you to do new branding no designer Stover so we would but the whole time it was frustrating because I knew the products sucked and I knew that the customer service department was you know crap and I knew everything inside is broken but the we they want us to make the façade look good and it is very frustrating and so I started to develop like programs and sessions on how to teach them that if you fix the inside first that the outside will take care of itself right and we actually know when I became I work my way up to creative director and then and then one of the ladies and I became partners we started to our own agency and an group and we we did a really good job we we planted Sony electronics and Blockbuster and I helped launch XM satellite radio and we had some great clients and it was a lot of fun working in that agency business in the 90s to thousands and I was pretty pretty while we had a great office in Fort Worth and lots of cool parties and this was creative yet yeah so and my partner I guess the biggest part of that was the first exposure to having a very very calm competent partner that offset my weaknesses which there's a lot slight yeah I'm I'm a weak structure I need a lot of support so gender was a brilliant smart you know wasn't never went to college but she was classy which means she knew when to cuss and not sheep cuss properly but she was self-made and she was cheap you know basically handled everything but the creative and strategy should just let me have the and she appreciated what I did and we got along very well and through the agency in an I learned so much and I was trying to teach these companies you know we were selling these strategy sessions like a brand speak and a few others and bits and pieces and parts but not really buy into the whole methodology they wouldn't do the whole thing and and so she wanted to retire and and I thought that you know I could and this was when the agency business was really taken a tanker you know in the late 2002 laptop computer started taking over our business because now people could lay out their own stuff and do their own design team with Photoshop and became much easier for the general public can and so you know we luckily we were able to exit that business and I kept the digital alarm and worked in building websites and stuff up until 2009 and Ben was didn't like it close just to mass that did that fulfill the same creative blowdown with the other with no because by then it didn't didn't didn't you know it it did but like I said we get calloused I about stepped into that role we did some really neat stuff and back then you know we're you know it cost you $300,000 get a website built by us but yeah Laurent well was because everything was hard I could get it done for 500 now she's coming they would charge company's outrageous amounts it had to be much harder because it was hard I was because I had to hire guys that were they came from ARPANET now to help develop ARPANET that so we had to hire to help you know to do the programming on the websites is there wasn't tools is all you had to write code it's all everything Rocco data and in so you know the the technical aspect really because it was new I'm curious I was ate up with it at first but once I got over that I was like okay code is boring kind of mean it's not boring but it to get good got boring for me and doing Google AdWords programs back then which is what we also did after a while I realized a lot of spreadsheets and so sorry you know I sold my part to my partner and and try to transition and some of things I was doing some consulting work for different companies pay the bills my wife contracted chronic Lyme disease or didn't contract she'd been finally diagnosed after three or four years of trying to figure out what was wrong and we had two babies and lata should happen in a short amount of time that really guided me and and I was really like I didn't know how to handle this kind of situation it was just in August thinking negatively and was scared you know I'd never had responsibility before in the wake up when the two freaking kids and a wife and only can it do this and one day so I did I didn't know what I wanted to do I didn't I was interested in a lot of things I don't know what I want to do I don't Fisher hobby per se but I knew what I didn't want to do so I sat down not try to make this fast as I want to talk about full bucket we do have another half-hour so you know I like it when they hear you now to shut me up so no I think the beauty of your brain as you paint a very convincing picture so you're a good storyteller this is this is the campfire effect going on right here I'm just I enjoy the story like I moved from sent from South Dakota with you very well if we are having cocktails that he would be better for you like not get sidetracked next Sunday for cocktails. Yes sir silicide and decriminalized but I love you guys told me that I heard you know Chip bigger said that it lost and you guys I came in holy crap now it's amazing this is a very close vote I'm very excited so so the I didn't know what I wanted to do and was very frustrating and I was consulting for some private equity companies to pay her bills and and was very I was kind of desperate way I was well I I've missed a little part where I partnered up with the wrong person after left the web buzzer I tried to launch a niche advertising network online network at that time Google ad ad since in Google AdWords what really keyed in very well with the algorithms and the targeting and so there was a lot of opportunity to create niche ad networks there were all online but aligning people in partnered up with a guy that I didn't know that well but had what I needed which was a development team started sinking money into that and the partnership we didn't have the same ethics of counseling with the same and so it went belly up and Charlotte had basically and… While you're still you got the kids the wire is not a good day my son when we started it was really taking off and we were going to make a lot of money and and but that's why that's why I have this belief now that the people you work with this way more important than what you're doing way more important than the ideas is it's nice if it's a good idea it's better if it's a great idea but they're both irrelevant if the people you're working with her ship so anyhow so took a nosedive try to regroup very frustrated you know feeling worthless but knew that okay other people are here I didn't know what I wanted to do and I was very freshly that so one morning I woke up and I together no pattern I should write down what I don't like to do and I just started writing what things do I not like about working business and whatever start a fillets pages there's a lot of things that you that you don't like if you really start looking into that experience take you into a more negative place because that could that could go to a rabbit hole in my brain renders like holy cow I don't like a lot of what we know you know it really didn't it was a little bit cathartic because you know that floats around in you anyways and all day your little bit bombarded by it pain being being being but writing it down and actually looking at it on all yeah I don't don't like it when somebody comes in and you know makes me stop what I'm doing and do something else sounds like a simple thing but I was in the what I was doing and now you're trumping my I hated that so it was cathartic to see it on paper know that's why you get during the day I get that little is a somebody stop me from doing what I was working on your heart as you get into a flow's yeah and then somebody interrupts that you have to work your way back into that flow state you down so you know at the end of that cannot by the way I didn't have any like direction I was doing this and so I start writing all things of like and then I realize at the end of five pages and hundreds of things I went back to it and said all right will a lot of these are very similar the these are they all sound different are there but there really fall under one bucket sure diesel fund this bucket they all have the same kind of that the cause itself these are all symptoms of cause itself was kind of the same overarching I do not but I just realize they were they were similar so I put them in their own buckets and I ended up with like eight buckets and and so I had eight verticals that these are things that I don't like with you know being told what to do you know working on my own schedule all these things essentially was you know I don't want to work for somebody else well and then there was another one about I don't want to work on things that don't have inherent value for humanity and for me and make me feel good and I wanted things that might girls would be proud that dad working on those things and I wanted something I wanted to have products that Steve and served well lets you know that all fall under no a bucket and so when I was done I had these eight core things and should others flip one of work for somebody else be my own us right if if I don't want you know my life I don't want what I do to be I have no value for society for me or for my family then I need to have something that does and so on so forth and I had eight things and wrote those on a piece of paper Nicole my eight manifestoes and immediately coming within heartbeat whole bunch of stuff made sense my life I had a couple of opportunities that I've been dragging my feet on and immediately I realize why was dragging my feet they didn't meet these criteria yeah because I knew I still didn't know what I wanted to do but if it had these eight things what view I want to be happy if if if it meets these criteria I'll be happy no matter what it is but then all of a sudden two things happen one is I realized the opportunities I was taken advantage of was because they didn't meet those criteria in my internal system was dragging its feet and it also opened up other opportunities I couldn't even see is now I had this lens are looking glass that that I could look through and I could see so much more using that and remember Jody was in the kitchen and I was at the table and this all happen and I said you know why I'm enjoying my feet on that offer with the private equity. Come on board she said no I said is it only meets one of these like I could make a lot of money as a runway is what I called runway not that I want to be rich but if I'm to put energy into something I want to get energy back and that's part of the energy partly the energy is no though the purpose stuff but also as the monetary aspect to make and improve my life but also exponentially expand then we met that one it didn't need any of the others she goes okay and to begin the work you know those two young veterinarians that I've been consulting the last little bit they meet seven of the eight innovate your consulting for them well they had they had started making their both extremely good veterinarians very well known in the equine industry but they are also small animal to but very well known in the equine industry andand they had developed this is where it will tie into all of this is that they actually were struggling with diarrhea in their patients and there wasn't a good all-natural alternative to help mitigate that interesting and in a very successful way and and so this would when they started making their product they note experimenting is like in mid to 2005 six someone there and they rob Dr. Rob Franklin was he's up there both brilliant smart and robs one of those kind of people who can research and really extract things and he's he's insanely good at that and so he was doing a lot of research about probiotic use in humans in there was there's a lot of misinformation about probiotics effect probiotics are really Messerli a thing like it's not like that's a probiotic it's how you use it use a lot of different things but the way you use it means it's a probiotic anyhow so he'd been doing a lot of research and they they came upon a novel solution that you know the at the current time there were probiotics in the market in the animal healthcare side but they were strains it had never been proven to work they were way way under concentrated they bubble bubble law so he he he used his mind to create a very you know it was all about them the various ingredients they all had to be there not just a probiotic but Anita almost like a caring agent to do this and it needed this to do this so it was a formula that he put together and was messing around with in his clinics I just Messing with it all of a sudden diarrhea stop and was healthy stop it wasn't like he wasn't plugging anything up the body was healing itself getting it back on its feet they started using it than their colleagues wanted some so they started in the the college are some of the best equine vet so that started spreading next you know they had a business that they started out of their garage shipping boxes and you know for four years they did this but they weren't really growing they just sort of peaked all where they started and they want some help they want to figure how can we take this the market so friend of a friend introduced us I said yep I love to help and so we met had couple of really deep dive sessions and I did discovery where ID dig all the stuff out from is very personal like I want to know you personally and I was sitting at the cuff to Vanessa Gillis to young veterinarians and working with they meet 78 Jody goes which one don't the meaning of the runway go the more supplement market is small especially in the veterinary martyrdom it's not very big and she does could it be I'll I mean if we expanded in the cats and maybe livestock and other areas Josie think they'll have you and I don't know so I called Keith on the phone and I got a I don't want to be a consultant want to be partner you what we just talked about you yesterday that's awesome that's cool and we your partners but confessing use the word looking glass and to me I need to he saw you at four years old looking through the window at that swing and you went back to your roots to veterinary yeah not funny yeah I'm full-circle then now tell you next round it felt like putting on a pair of well worn sauce actively that of the half-hour road of next half-hour is altogether Jim Brown here hosts of check project with Lycos Eric Rieger Eric Regency and mojo guys over there and overhears Billy talking about 20 over bloating I've seen in my practice that I'm trying to is a whole lot more than just a floating product yes it does a whole lot more than just fix voting because of the polyphenols that you find keen on trying to get your exactly right the polyphenols on those molecules we find in the Mediterranean it makes vegetables and fruit very colorful polyphenols beware these polyphenols actually stop and nation help you have more energy thinking have you antiaging and polyphenols are great athletes sounds like a hellhole more people than just loading tell me how it is taking out front if you want to go so 2002 capsules three times a day you are exploding just want to polyphenol intake every day they will work for you to love my tummies.com/take the pain out of ordering 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even though, never heard but anyway problem continue I must say that I like my voice and this microphone yeah that late-night girl with that was that guy that the late-night show coast-to-coast all about us Farmville Bill Montville Mac go Mac Bill Mexico don't remember that restricted the charter yeah Dag actually I have a relationship with Bill my partner Sandra Newberg dear friends and she she got him on XM satellite radio nicely got him to move from note the traditional radio over indexing she did the contract she did the negotiations so I swim in his pool with them when I know that I concocted this row Hendrickson he swims in bill next to us here long time ago and somehow that led to some amazing honestly personal stories about how ultimately you got full bucket as well as some other companies so conflict of the website this is really cool I didn't know we could talk hours just on this one company this is really cool which one is whole budget yeah so so we we all got together man Robin Keith got together and again so here was this my life this was in 2009 10 2010 11 we actually so they had a company called stellar Mark they had two products they had up a paste that was a very high concentrated product and and they had a a powder did you put on feed and just for courses it was for the help mitigate the diarrhea and loose stool and things like that so they have these products they were very good they worked and we met they been trying to get going for about four years later they had it going they they sort of capped out so when we sat down and had you know kicked it off again wheat wheat shut the company down because one of the core aspects of us coming together and doing this together was that we didn't want to just have a business that sold stuff you know we didn't want to just have a a company that sold you nutraceuticals we wanted to have a business that meant something on a whole different level and we had read all three of us had read like Makowski's start something that matters which is a book about how he started Tom's shoes he and his journey with that and note that really resonated with me but it both of them are Rob and Keith are big readers they'd read it and we talk a lot about it like that's that's the beauty that there there was something there Robin Keith had been going on these veterinary without borders type trips to Mexico and the use their skills to do some simple veterinary care in and help the people are down there but it was all it's all part of a nonprofit organization and it really that it it was awesome for them to use their skills to help people with it right that really really really needed is a Beulah don't have access to any kind healthcare and in their animals and but so they were doing these trips and working on donkey sources meals which is called the working check would Oracle working horse and the working horse build builds nations we built America with the horse and the mule in the in the draft horse that's that's what it's how we built train tracks and streets and everything way back when we were developing nation and people were poor and you could feed a horse but you know and so these countries these communities that's the the hard-working horses there everything the minister pickup truck in their plow in their tractor and in our halls the water and the kids in the in the you know the grain from the fields everything in their highly malnourished because the people they don't know much about nutrition at all in their way overworked they don't get enough energy food and it's pretty deplorable these animals are so important to them but they don't really know how to take care of them properly if there with them and of the work all day and they throw a bunch of corn husks at night for food or sometimes you know the grass might be belly deep and on the side of the mountains of Guatemala grass looks beautiful but they are on the side of volcanoes which spews ash for the last millions of years soils deplete of all kinds of nutrients serenely grasp there's no washing there's no nutrient so they got no bone problems and foot problems and teeth problems and it's so they need help and we wanted to launch a company that didn't write a damn check at the end of the year as a donation we wanted to create this was the idea was we wanted to create a for-profit business selling really awesome products that customers would love and that would fuel us being able to help the working horses thus the families in these poor communities also like up the recycle engine or a physical the difference engine work one feeds the other in a way that the bigger our company grew the bigger are giving would get and it would just they would just be synergistic with each other it was not going to be a pay we want to donate it's a it's part of our fabric it was always meant to be that way because it requires more than just money basically left educate right: it was sort of like having two companies in a way because minutes logistically I certainly about the actual work we do down there it's it will blow your mind are you still going down personally and doing stuff absolutely no I wouldn't mean we mean that if that's all I was doing I be very happy and were getting there you know the group got some really great people on board now managers in place that's taken a lot of the load off of us and were able to do more and more with the giving program and its growing even more so we're looking at some really exciting things come for but the very beginning back then you know we just had that idea and so the three of us were sorta like a three legged stool Rob Rob's certainly key certainly and I'm a certain way and it sort of seem like it fit and is proven to be that way so we we shut down their company and we launched one called animal stewards international and we knew that was gonna be a house of brands I some nailed out Scott how I want the brand structure will and will stewards the holding company, like Johnson & Johnson and then the first brand will be full bucket we renamed that their company that their product line full bucket because I thought it was a cool play on every animal should have a full bucket you know and and design the brand identity and then we we started developing a few more products and then Rob is in charge of the actual giving program and so he aligned with some nonprofit organizations and we started going down to Mexico this is 2011 and so we take our time we basically have a one-for-one program just like Tom shoes for every dose of product we sell we give to these animals need no it's way beyond that we actually go down and we do we work with individuals in those communities to teach them how to trim their feet and float teeth and we've we've done some micro financing or we get give the young guys the tools to build a deck as we do not want to be what's called toxic charity we don't want to go down there and have welfare that's why hate it when people say were its omission it's not a mission trip is not a charity that's welfare and I grew up next to the reservation and I know welfare can do to got the community of its ambition and you have to be very careful so, stop you but just real quick for the listeners who may not know if I may be incorrect or too many flow T-20 veterinary posting basically using a file right to make sure to see the dental health of the horse can break down the food because if I send malnourished and they can have really bad teacher exert you can fix a major skinny bad horse with axing their teeth because you you look at the mouth and its it's awful it looks just like when there Sharp and their scattered everywhere and you know some resources have a tooth it's going up every time the vita goes up into the soft tissue of the you know the pallet and is just worn a hole through all way into the nasal cavity oh and seagoing and you fix those teeth and now they can actually eat properly without living in misery and that's yeah that's what we call floating teeth then we trim feet the hooves are all in terrible shape and get them trimmed up so they can travel better they break didn't break down over them now have you been able to take some of his people he been working for a long time and are they self-sufficient now do you have areas of places you go absolutely hello hello hello gathers areas where you know I remember three or four years ago we were in a village in which we work with University Guatemala and their veterinary program and so we bring one of our our goals not only was to help the working horses and the people that rely on them was also to create a bridge for others to join us we wanted to create a working out belaying this platform down we wanted to create a bridge for other veterinarians to be able to go and experience and use their talents to do this we want to create a bridge for the students that students in Guatemala to be able to come up and experience that Mary worked in the United States which is the best in the world and and in and create a synergy between it all and it's happening and so I guess we we were very conscientious of replacing you know because we going to these communities and we do this work will then no veterinarian can go in and you have a business they were never able to begin focus these are subsistent farmers don't have much money but they have some when I got asked you? How did how do you see I mean how do you survive being a farmer generation to generation and not have learned the techniques to keep your working animal I think that over time the food to the table when I first came back I I I wrote about that Easter blog a lot back then and I called it you know I I have not yet come down from that mountain and I'm going out for clamp to even think about it but was my first trip there in working I remember thinking you people been living with these animals for 3000 years you don't how to trim their feet and you don't know how to really feed him or anything and it took me a couple of years of going and being there in these are wonderful people these are these these villages are ever the kids are loving and coming out I going other details about some of these villages the orphan rate is off the charts because the dads leave and and go north to work and there's a village full of women and children and they are everywhere and they don't have any father figures and so they just glom on us if we show them attention and love and they just other so thirsty for so the forgot you asked me a question about the thousands of years so what it is it's it's culture it's all culture it's it's a long-standing chain of I use the word ignorance because it doesn't mean they're stupid it just means that I know I don't know their underwear and you have to understand that it's eroding down there because the for years you grew up in a village it's hard to get to another village you don't have phones and the Internet and your chatting with people everywhere else when you're in your village and once in a while someone new commander once in a while things happen so for thousand years you were pretty secluded and and there wasn't that you know here we are wearing the most innovative company ever are a country ever start we pioneered and started a new you know type of economy and political system men were built on innovation in this country we resolve problems inventions and we think that way if something is broken were always get everyone stinking like how I fix that I like make improve that not there assist not their culture the culture is this is the way it's done he thinks of the natural catalyst, leaves with the the males also having to leave to go get work to send back money because they can't teach the trade and maybe they happen to pick up even a little bit to me what we have here is generation to building upon what your father did what your grandfather did and when you're gone within your psyche since women and children they don't have the same tradesman ship passed down from generation yeah definitely that and no woman like I said I grew up in South Dakota and me we had a culture sort like that you know me and I can't say that well in different because you were talking about how you was always the odd man out but you're the odd man out in such a great way thinking well there's some way sell always have and that that creative thought that you that you stuck with this entire time so that you were then able to channel that and help these people so you say come dump them out your time at the blog you said you'd come down first trip it was just so powerful because we we went to Mexico and we were up in these villages were 11,000 feet you know and there was a moment you not been there but I was kinda numb you know you your seeing it all and and I was thinking to myself you know it really had hit me like it was sort like a dream I was there I knew that we were working on these animals on either of these these people were in no were needing our help they don't have access to those things here we are helping them out and out of the fields like the middle of the week and I'd been there for a few days no sir to put it all together and out of the field came the a bunch of these kids and they were brothers and sisters and they were orphans and they had a donkey with them they were pulling his donkey and the oldest daughter was sort of in charge of the family right she is in charge of the I think there was five of altogether the the youngest the baby she was carrying a baby that was her you know her sister baby had to be maybe nine months and it's hard to tell their stunted growth you know and there'll do small people file I have a hard time gauge their age but as a baby and they're all dirty and they were shoeless and they were there close were just tatters and traditional can address but just bore out tattered and and the oldest girl was probably nine and she's in charge she's in charge dad Ed something happened to dad cartels whatever he was gone and mom died and she brought was bringing this donkey and she's now nine taken care of the family home going out the fields with the donkey how could the other the siblings at play in the dirt they lived they live between two houses in the sole alleyway thing wasn't houses don't get me wrong these are cinderblocks with them 10 over the top you know their domiciles but they're not houses and they live between two and they came out of the field and there's a I have a photo off to dig up of me note the little one I was clean your face up everything and the close word you know they look like close it might've been brought by the Salvation Army or something you know they were some of the close he had on were two little hat a little sweater and things didn't look like they were handmade so I'm sure they were had gotten them through some sort of term charitable deal they were just Remy wore out sure you know they've been wearing them sometime in Washington and that's that's the moment that it stab my heart and finished up the work that week and then we flew home and when when I got home my wife and all a bunch of our friends were in Fort Worth for this big some big event going on in town and was a parties and and it was all like all over town it was some sort of big thing and so I went there and everybody's dressed up and in on I just get off this airplane I'm still kinda grubby him you know I'm I'm still in my work close but I just went straight there is you know and there was surrounded by Access crazy excess opulence almost young people are having fun doing in there and they're completely unaware of what I just experienced I was just I was sitting there it was a flip-flop so like I said before I was when I was there I was sort of like an outsider and I was sort of felt like I was looking at everything through a window until like those kids and then I was present and I got it I go back and I met this downtown Fort Worth and I'm looking through a window like this isn't real I felt so removed and I said still in come down from the mountain so I got over that enough eventually but that was that that made me understand the the reason we did we were doing and purpose did you immediately talk to your wife and kids about the you hold inside it took me a little while you know I would give them snippets until little bit you know but as time went by get more and more you know involved with that they haven't been with me yet I'm I want to go with me we quit going to Mexico only go to Guatemalan Nicaragua sundress wherever it's safe enough but mostly Guatemala we have kind of a headquarters in Guatemala and our program is expanding their exponentially in and a lot of the vet students that were on her first few trips have now become, part of our family and they've been up to vectors two of my peer right now doing internships in Texas and the go back down and be a big part of our program down there and help us manage it down there but together program continues to grow and it's really just clarify so full bucket also pays for that they pay for the travel and do you like that yeah that's so cool yes of the then we partner up with with different groups that help you know there's actually that there is a program that is called the Echo turn initiative that sort of up to veterinarian program and we learned a lot from them they were really helpful in the beginning but those are all donation based programs and the only way that they can continue is but you know by going out begging for money and getting funds continual basis and you know we we didn't want that we were entrepreneurs I get that and I very much appreciate that but we where entrepreneurs and working to break Chip working at fix stuff when it needs fixed we don't want to go through committees we we ran into a lot of really can we just do this and like yet will working to bring that up at the next committee and maybe next year will roll it out relates to all of us took the morning and so you know we slowly growing our program more and more to be Morris just by ourselves because that of that mentality has nothing to do with everyone's doing trying to do good were very keyed in on not creating toxic charity not using welfare trying to work with communities try to figure out a way that they can all be sustainable nutrition problem asking to be a tough one educations helping a lot and we've got people that are helping working on like storing feed in the winter time teaching them how to soar feed during the incident really wintertime at the offseasons the rainy seasons which they you know preparing for that will help a lot so were trying to figure out ways that we can do that but ultimately you know like those nutrients that are in the soil will always have to replace so sweet the product that we we distribute down there is made in countries that we create jobs and factories in these countries are yellow that we don't own them the factories we we found like feed mills and we we buy the ingredients and we have their people make the product for us and and then we distributed in the country try to keep as much economic growth there as we can fantastic I think that is so cool and then just really quick when you compare that to what you would consider a toxic charity of the toxic charity mentality what you mean by that will mean by that enforceable there's a book called toxic charity it's not only kind of our Bible but it's a really well-written book when the guy did a great job but is about it's it's not replacing what can be sustainable so if like I said if if if we teach the young men in the community how to trim the feet and we set them up with the tools by the way with micro-finance because based it's better stick rate if they OS form and they won't have to pay us back if we teach them and show them how to run their own little business that sustainable now we've got a broken cycle now there someone there that knows how to trim feet and he'll get better and better he'll teach others his sons will take over his business and pretty soon feet problems are no longer a problem that area same with teeth in OD warming that's tougher because it requires parasitic's so there's some things are are tougher challenges to make sustainable but really being conscientious of that always is the is the top level is you know don't come in here and throw down your welfare because you creates a state that you don't want so what this word is now I think it's amazing I think that's what we're talking about it's the living on the island not really have in this you're changing the culture yes are teaching the young men there to teach their sons and I think honestly what you're talking about it with how much you're doing I think 10 years at Trader Joe's in a Starbucks there yeah, so maybe not maybe Starbucks is like a used one when I was there they grow the coffee for the airport at all walking around and they had all these vegetables on the side of the mountain people with their donkeys out there harvesting and I'm looking out then I go big beautiful carrots and lettuce but the people all eat just tortillas and beans and there's this beautiful vegetables and I go don't they just eat the well those those are going to beat you back to Texas and Walmart oh what is Walmart supporting again yeah I said men they should sneak some and carrots are beautiful yeah Walter crazy world that is an me I can't believe that's the thing to two hours I love I like that you like to read I like your good storytellers I can't wait to buy your book yeah I actually have a couple but I can't tell you what they are here I wrote a memoir that it was their mentor Max Stoll written that yes is absolutely 00 will number thank you Patrick Patrick is still with her downline they do want to know how they can donate or participate in full buckets so tell us what to do we got about 40 seconds rule we don't do donations whatever I say were not a charity were not a mission we kinda got that handled it to your best way to participate first of all is your your own backyard with service animals there's a lot of people and groups that are are have the service dogs and service horses that are rescued animals that they then turn around and used to help with PTSD or the service dogs that you see everywhere we really we support those now in domestically we have a program for that as well in an but or purchase our products if you have dogs cats horses we have an amazing line of probiotic base products digestive health will focus on nothing but digest different health awesome also that's how you can support us is by our products and and you know if you're dealing with diarrhea and things like that your dog for the solution connect with Robo henderson@fullbuckethealth.com thank you so much at episode 10 of the shed project double digits in the books this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platform dedicated to food and fun clear spoony are you hungry for the usual today for you ready to spice things up with the new Nashville hot brisket from firehouse subs with kicking up are slow smoked brisket Nashville hi seasoning it's top with melted pepper Jack tangy slot serve piping hot toasted corn bread roll yeah a cornbread roll see time what are your new Nashville hot brisket on the firehouse subs out today firehouse subs enjoy more subs save more lives Matthew husband and wife may kiss the bride connect to care whenever you needed like video chatting with a doctor right from your phone so I don't need stitches thank you healthcare health plan benefits may vary
Rachel Scheer is a fitness model, BS Nutrition and Dietetics, and Functional Medicine Nutritionist . She has several years of experience directing clients to better whole health, and has personal journey of having to find better gut health. She has long collaborated with physicians to allow her clients a more comprehensive picture of improving and maintaining health.
Dr. Jay Yepuri, MD, is a board certified gastroenterologist, the CMO of Riduzone, and has served the gastroenterology community in many capacities including being a former president of the TSGE. Dr. Jay is an ardent patient advocate, and has long worked to improve health and patient outcomes by looking beyond the traditional establishment approach.
Both of the guests in this episode have played a critical role in creating the DHAT Health box. (DHAT = Digestive Health Associates of Texas) A vehicle for consumers to get direct advice on home products and supplements that are fully vetted, approved, and shown to deliver health benefits, at a competitive cost delivered monthly.
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Progressive number line number two employee hey Jamie it's me Jimmy this is your daily peptalk I know it's been rough going ever since people found out about your a cappella group met harmony but you will bounce back I mean the guy always helping people find coverage options with the name your price tool it should be you given me the peptalk now get out there get that high note and take Matt harmony all the way to nationals this is sorry the insurance company and affiliate by state law and gentlemen welcome to the gut check project where we all take our egos in the door with your host Dr. Kent Brown MD I am Eric Rager 10 it is episode number nine we think that this is so exciting my lysing cats there's nine it's a great number so it's also number there's a Seinfeld I think it was that no no I know it was a fierce Buehler 19 kind every time I hear the date faded number nine this is so exciting though because were starting a little traction were being get on the message by people this is really fun and I cannot tell you how excited I am about today show today show it we actually have we actually have a real offer we've got viewers who have been watching us weekly and now we have something we can actually give back to them and then well know you're right I'm pretty fired up in fact today's episode is unlike any other we have an offer for everyone here to tell us about that often help us explain it is going to be Rachel Scheer certified sports nutritionist and fitness model as well as Dr. J Dr. J Perry and I he is a course a board-certified guesser neurologist and he happens to serve as the CMO of Rich's own which a lot of our listeners are probably heard us talk about absolutely so this is not so the reason I'm so excited about this just wouldn't be doing offer but more importantly our two guests are actually amazing people so Rachel has this fantastic story she's super smart she's a nutritionist and she's able to stay in incredible shape and she's got help our listeners hopefully look a little bit like her someday so we were just on mojo and I had to laugh that Brad Brad encouraged her that she is off to a good start which was pretty funny yeah and I just hope she can hold together before she got ahead and like like many people that are very passionate about their jobs she has a heroes journey that she's young tells about and choosing to explain how she ended up doing this and you're getting her degree at Baylor and overcoming some obstacles and all of the above which is awesome and so that's gonna be super excited talk to her about that she's a big advocate of I'm trying to my baby that's her and I got to know each other and that she can talk about proper way to eat properly to exercise and it might surprise you because a lot of people are probably being way too restrictive for there being two other trying to do this and that and she's you and explain how look like she does still pretty much what you want sure you get to know her story a bit better it's really cool because she has her own personal journey did that relates to a lot of people the May you may think that people they want to come on and talk about things like that that their story does relate to you that it at the case at all she would just recently spoke at the millionaire mastermind is over 500 people to pay a lot of money to be a mastermind group and they had her as a speaker discussing this and she's really open about that because when you look at somebody that is overcome some struggles you realize hey I can do this and there's people like that out there that have learned how to use nutrition which I consider the foundation of all health because if you have good nutrition you have a healthy.all health begins and ends in the chair and she also collaborates with lots of other gastroenterologist including yourself to help serve the people that you serve and it's it's a great unified front she's a great collaborator in that capacity absolutely and then somebody that I completely respect so that we have on that his name is Dr. J you. He is an influencer in the gastroenterology world definitely she was the former president of the Texas Society of gastrointestinal G.I. TSG whatever that stands for but anyways he was president of that he got a political science degree from Penn University super smart I worked with him for the last 17 years he's an influencer always doing the right thing always looking at things from both a political and a patient centric view how do we do the right thing politically and make sure that the patient gets the best of everything we need more people like him out there talking about laws making sure that patients get access to healthcare and he's also the chief medical officer of the product or trauma ridges on emergent get into that and that's super cool also if you haven't heard of it stay tuned because it is so neat we're going to cover so much ground to the front so excited I respect both our guests so much and Anna learned a ton every sewer guest we have had I've learned a lot and that's one of the reasons why we do the show edit without question more thing to add to Jay I like to say that I've doing anesthesia I've gotten to work with a lot of different positions all different kinds of capacities but the people that often times stick out are those that you can tell are altruistic and function as real patient advocates has deftly Dr. J he's been that way since the day that I don't and it's it's no wonder why it's put him into the position that he's in now the cool thing is is that either one of these guests could easily get deftly have either one of them on specifically to talk about what all of their interest are just by themselves but they join together because they actually want to talk about this offer that's coming up later absolutely Emmy is more likely will have each one of these guests back on to give them a full hour and have to say whatever on their mind but today we have such a big offer that we believe it to really important people should announce it with us sure without question real quick paying the bills don't forget that if you ever suffer from bloating go to love my tummy.com/spoony that's love my Tommy.com/spoony use the code spoony it's also printed on that landing page whenever you get there and does save some money on the world's only NSF certified for sport product for IBS symptoms and bloating and if you're wondering what NSF is well Rachel can explain yeah she might just bill a bit familiar with it without being in sports nutrition and death course to all of the people that are just clever wondering really good sign that one of the things that I have been told by I was message said that so whenever you talk about the landing page people did not realize how much money they can save when the putting that code spoony so not only do you go there and get it but you're gonna save a lot of money was pretty surly listening use that code use it as it saves money definitely all a lot of money that's right and just to follow after that train of thought there Oya this last week and received lots of email keep them coming I appreciate all of the comments we had last week of Chris being on episode number eight Christmas song course was the market expert for him but I'm still getting requests for information on how to connect with that James Carroll and of course how do I find Dr. Wade McKenna if you want to know anything about stem cells go back to that episode so much so that he was spotted on our episode by someone making a ducky series about stem cells and now Dr. Wade McInnes can be featured oh that's awesome that crazy man one thing I learned from that night I just said I respect him as a doctor that stood by his guns and realize that he developed this get a patent on something church and just to reiterate that a better thing came out anyway you better come and use you even though my names on this thing that is amazing to me that you shows pure patient advocacy so it's hard work for me is that it looked a lot easier my brain but yeah that's right I think that the just blown my mind with at the infancy of where stem cell is same thing with all these other topics that were really try to tackle here and show you will try and bring a little knowledge differently so if if you want to connect with the show to ask more questions about Dr. Wayne McKenna James Carroll Joy Beckerman Chrissy song anybody we had in the show Sean Brian's please go to gut check project.com and then you will find the connect tab of the top Stratus an email at any point in time and if you like to show all we ask that you do is subscribe and like it and share it with different absolutely were gaining some traction you see today that these Rachel has acute social media following go ahead and check out her Instagram page it's it Angel at Rachel Scheer nutrition register nutrition correct register.com they all pretty much leave the same place you can find right and that's our ACH yell SCh ER and of course like always will: include all links about our guests and the offer in the show notes you can always find us at YouTube channel gut check project and on iTunes search.check project so absolutely now to move into the little personal stuff like we normally do and you hit some KB MD corner news so that Ken is going on I got an interesting week I just came back from Newark New Jersey right where I was part of filming our national commercial for trying to nine are going to launch a national campaign on TV that's always fun to go there and see a totally different industry and realize what's happening and I guess the the take away it was good it went really well is really fun when I was doing my makeup I had to laugh because I was this the makeup artist had all her material out there and of course as a guest neurologist one thing I noticed Miller's tons of things was a tube of Preparation H grab that and I said you know I can help you with this issue like she is and how it I my casserole dishes like oh my gosh no use of her eyes I put another piece of the bag felt like saying if you preparation H layout picture hemorrhoids said that she's fine pretty hard to explain them away so I did that and the kids the usual thing would go to my daughter Carl in theater is their learning about wicked so now she wants you to New York watch with good and will probably maybe consider going in August when that superhot wants the U.S. Open also I don't know but I'm being coerced into going to watch wicked in New York and my son just came back from Florida where he played in IGF which is the next level XVIII and under kind of thing you heavily second round upbeat by the 70th right player in the world did it proudly played well and the guy that did it pulled him aside and kinda coach Leftwich which I think is the coolest eyes and said you're brewing up and comers is awesome work on this work on this hidden feedback he gave them feedback this is this is this what I did when you did this so yeah and that's so was worth the trip to Lucas he lost second-round beloved so what's wrong with your family the boys are basically just attacking the hoop this said this, we can they have a quick tournament they both played over the weekend they they play dad Monday and that's that seems to be the agenda they did go and see the latest not this is how little I know about superheroes I know that there is a big blockbuster superhero movie that just came out and told Sue spoiler alert this for me I wouldn't do it because I don't even know the name of it as they both my girl you know that that's when the running joke is that don't do any spoiler alerts everybody it's all over read it I don't know you don't have to do that I don't have your luck you do a starless vision arguing for now absolutely not and wife is doing great she's really busy this weekend with a bunch of the local activities she's heavily involved with that and then not getting run with you actually on a quick business trip at Arizona separate in the transit the week for me yeah we one quick shout out to a friend of mine and a colleague Dr. Stuart Ackerman he's a part reminder to check them out he's a specialist in the pancreas issues biliary US ERCP that kind of thing but he sent me a link to somebody that we both really like it's little Dickie yeah remember the wrapper little Dickie just came out with an earth video was really cool was he sent me a follow-up video on YouTube where he talks about how the way that we are producing our food is affecting the environment what I loved about it through some of the cows producing methane and of course that's right in our wheelhouse until yeah so you don't methane what if your bacteria grow merchant you're going to get very bloated and when that happens it can affect you know we always talk about our demographic and our avatar when we talk about marketing you really need to dial it in and I was messaged by half port Bjorn soon he plays the mountain from Game of thrones and Magis von Magnuson they have me that heavy letter from ESPN ESPN strongman yeah and they said you know we get bloated also and you're ignoring our demographic what yeah and so I spoke with you know I spoke with our team at the altar until I said were completely ignoring a group of people here and so were you got a new SKU for the mountain of game of thrones and Magnus Vaughn Magnuson fields take over the microsecond down I will go ahead and show you this is going to narrate what reductions doing okay so he stepping away and I get out of do this in golf voice or not you listening to I tend you can see the visual who he's opening up backhoe he's training down like you got an atlas down all my goodness there is a gigantic take green box marked just like the familiar Arbitron teal box while yeah so this is our newest view is trying to yield for strongmen it is a it is 40 kg look like a like a month on your back will I can tweet it I'm faking it right now all intentions even the later nature calls on that inflammatory response so I know this is not a strong man I know they did not actually message me this is actually a gift for episode number nine from our CEO Chuck Scott also super cool nice it looks it's an exact replica of the little one originally this guy right here at all times because I'll try until we can fix people we help with their bloating even strongmen but they don't have to take the big box was nice in the coal that was such a cool gesture and supernatant that's you know something that we get the word out for international commercial now yeah like that and I just got is the CEO KBS research the parent company of trying to also add nice work. There Chuck I do notice though can hear the bottom it says I 90 capsules just like the yeah like the regular size yes so in the also says to 75 mg just like the regular size are you there must be a lot of empty space in these capsules well knowing that we were initially making this for strongmen how you know each capsules about 2 inches long and filled with lead social to really weigh it down okay since no one can swallow so if you if you ordered the large volume here Voltron tales going to cost you a lot of shipping and you will not be will go through metal detector and lead poisoning social just just order the smile you have a bigger one here for you like I had to laugh Chuck Scott just messaged us and said oh my gosh you had me going I thought you were seriously well yeah that's what you I like that know that's that's awesome I think that is so cool and you don't mean that's what were trying to do as a company were trying to sponsor spoony radio care so the alternate what you brought up Morse code last weekend and bid chow down and there's water you chow down his restaurant on his lot really really cool shows and of course we got our we got a man Patrick chef Patrick is yet a show so gently awesome well once you hit up the corner and let us know what's on the other research page for this week so basic what we always like to try and do is talk about a little bit of science here, try get that this really quick and it's gonna seem like a lot but I will come full circle and explain it at the variant and the reason I'm doing this is because our guest Dr. J Perry happens to be an expert on one of these things right on okay and what's silent here that by so I'm a big fan of the PhD name Michelle Ross meeting she wrote a book called vitamin weed and I think it's one of the more comprehensive molecular books that I have read and she covers a lot of ground here one of the things that we always have is the end of cannabinoid system we all have it just as important as the gastrointestinal system all those everywhere in the body if you think about what it really does is it links the neurologic system and the immune system so it really ties those two together so it's extremely important for a lot of different things the purpose of this is actually like a traffic cop and control the amount of nerve and about nerve activity going back and forth so just try to make sure that everything works well which is why work so well in anxiety and autoimmune diseases so the end of cannabinoid system helps deal with physical and emotional stress so now what is a cannabinoid basically you can take a cannabinoid final cannabinoid you can synthetically make one drug not a fan of those sure and your body makes him what were to talk about are the cannabinoids that your body makes okay so it's it gets into a little bit deep stuff but the most prominent thing that I want you to keep in mind is that there's two and or cannabinoids that everyone always talks about Ananda mind into a Jew when record our mothers because those are the ones ever talks about and they deserve their own hour each what I want to talk about our the atypical ones and then this actually explains why a full-spectrum Fido cannabinoid like the KB MD brand right here powered by Alexa no actually works a lot of different ways and that's one of the reasons why I believe that the full spectrum will always outperform a synthetic cannabinoid or drug cannabinoid buds naturally powered by numbing it's basically a doorway that nature intended it to happen so course is usually better yeah so even if you know quite a bit about CBD so if we get our people out there like I know all about it yeah and about to Aegean and Ananda might listen up because this is a little different so I want to talk about four different Endo cannabinoids one of him is called PEA P like a grantee that she stands for and Palma told EO then Nola mean originally discovered an egg yolk ticket of this is that it has been shown to have a potent anti-inflammatory activity and has a role in preventing neuropathic and chronic pain while one of the problems is that alcohol decreases PTA okay so keep that in mind because a lot of people trying your luck you will develop alcoholism or opiate abuse because of chronic pain a full spectrum vital cannabinoid has PEA in it so it acts in synergy with the other main one to AG and Amana mind born entourage effect when you help those out and it inhibits an enzyme that breaks it down called F88H so the enzyme FAA age breaks down your endogenous under cannabinoids So that's one I hope this works on inflammation and chronic pain then there's a supercool one called OE a and only old less than Nola mean OEA let's unfamiliar does sound familiar it's in this bottle and holding my hand from ridges on exactly what they have and here's the key ingredient's riches on one of the sponsors of mojo and spoony chief medical officer Dr. J Perry coming on the show today want to let him talk about why they put a concentrate of OEA in a bottle want to tell you is that your body makes some OEA and it's been shown to do some pretty cool things this is produced naturally in the small intestine from fatty acids and the major target is another cannabinoid receptor called P part alpha easy for you to say I know that's a proliferator activated receptor alpha now that is something that I would be doing quite a bit writing on because people are alphas or NP pile for people or gamma our associate with inflammatory processes in ulcerative colitis also the proctitis wow so I'm in a working to be publishing some really geeky cool stuff but I just want to throw this out there really quick that OEA has been shown to be good for brain health and believe it or not it's actually been shown to increase memories in rodents and it doesn't pretty cool things for weight loss but I believe that the doctor your Perry later because that's where most of the science is been done but they have shown that this molecule actually helps the brain and memory it is so wild I mean basically were talking about natural compounds available to us to make us feel better and stopping inflammation in it wild bit how many times over the last decade now have you encountered this this this crossroads of stop inflammation help your neurotic neurologic system help the way that you think helped ladies sleep I mean there's a lot of other connectivity there it just keeps going back to all health begins and ends got exactly in his illegal had explained Dr. Pursley go ahead and explain about how rigid zone gets converted in the got into this potent molecule that works in his own, different science but I did not know it actually helped with memory in the brain as well so it decreases the inflammatory response that awesome number three something lumpy will heard of DH eat a dry and dull Xhosa hex being all teeth and no new beauty mean hard that's likely make acronyms for all these no real word it's really hard to Google now this is made from the fatty acid DHA which is fish oil omega-3 DHEA has been shown to reduce inflammatory gene expression there's that word again inflammatory your body will naturally produce the hormone DHA in the adrenal gland in turn DHEA helps produce other hormones like testosterone and estrogen Rachel's really get into that some adrenal fatigue some adrenal lagging this is the kind of thing that nutritionist work on and then the last one here is not an ADA Nora can O'Donnell dopamine it's not really clear how it's made but it is made in the brain in the hippocampus region it relieves pain increases sleepiness and decreases body temperature while relaxing your muscles okay so will all those neck all those acronyms those I brought this up is because when I give CBD FIFO final cannabinoid to my patients I get all different kinds responses now it makes sense you could be deficient in one of these so the short review was necessary because patients may tell me that they sleep better with her nerve pain is better now I can say oh if you have insomnia maybe your not all levels are low or that needs be increased or if your memory is bad maybe you need more OTA oh your sex drive is down how about increasing that DHEA in other words this is why a full spectrum high-quality CBD can be so effective it's filled with all these are the benefits that nobody ever talks about how they are talks about but you know ever but a lot of different people have made these connections if you want to be healthier if you want to sleep better if you want to feel they all go together you simply have to eat better so that you can sleep better to sleep better she can think better yet the sleep better so you can repair your body it's it's amazing we've only got every half-hour or so Dragon Go! I know but everyone to you now because we have our two guests on and limits I want you to watch this live trust me on this it is good to be a cool shoulder to cover a lot of stuff and it's the offer that's most important that he has said Rachel Scheer is coming on with Dr. JJ Perry to basically deliver some great news that is happening here has been announced anywhere else and trust me you don't want to miss it subscribe and share gut check project iTunes and YouTube seamen got an old car you can donate it whether it's running or not to the United breast cancer foundation and save a life they'll even come and pick it up for free the United breast cancer foundation has saved hundreds of women's lives through their free or low-cost breast screening exams but now they need your help the United breast cancer foundation wants to save more lives through early detection by offering women free or low-cost breast screening exams in donating your old car SUV or truck whether it's running or not helps pay for them plus you get a charitable tax deduction help the United breast cancer foundation save lives by donating your old car SUV or truck call now for free pickup 800-245-0823 800-245-0823 800-245-0823 call right now that number again is 800-245-0823 it looks like you're losing I am I losing weight I am losing my lost about 10 pounds how are you doing it funny name but I've done it with review zone RAD use zone.com and the stuff works it's unique it and all that the molecule Bissonnette found in that I can tell you is it it's it makes you feel full and keep your mind off of wanting to overeat and also boost your metabolism if you're done and more guy try it today it's gonna work for you like his work for Brad and countless other people read you zone.com are IDUs zone.com FastTrack student loans can get your student loans out of the vault stop any wage garnishments stop collection calls and stop seizure of your tax refund give yourself a break to stop the stress and get your student loan payments down to as little as $25 a month based on what you can afford to pay 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 five so here we are back where set up where you have Rachel cheer Rachel give us a little wave over here Dr. January's on his way to show Patrick over there messing with our sign so that's that should be resolved shortly and Dr. Jacob Perry is entering the room welcome Dr. Jay running a little behind his usual not a problem so Hayward while getting started here on this the second half hour being spent on what is on the second half hour want to welcome have your Mike oh I got him holding exam. This one takes it so we believe we are we on episode 99 episode 90 so were going to fix a couple things and elect the real host Dr. Kent Brown handle the set up and I'll be back in a moment so for the record is the first time we've attempted to guess at the same time and we are working the kinks out with one of the mice it isn't working but we have the two most important people in the room here Rachel why don't you go ahead and tell us who you are my name is Rachel Sharon and functional testing test here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area is not our idea by building and can accomplish it is that how you met Dr. Jerry Perry on the on the fitness model circuit precedent lot I try try to keep that on little bit second second CV if you so knowing what no one wants to see that the ups Michael Dr. J very quick bio here what's going on with you where you come from who are you for our listeners who might well so native of Louisville Kentucky missing home this weekend because the Kentucky Derby try to make it up as often as I can but been down here in Texas 18 years and haven't found a reason to leave yet so been fortunate to be your partner in our in our larger group practice for many years now and and enjoying working with you in a lot of different different different ways we have so far so absolutely so Rachel we went on mojo earlier for little bit we covered a lot of ground in just a very short period of time but I think one of the cool things is that you just recently gave a lecture at the millionaire mastermind club correct mastermind million-dollar mastermind tells about that and why were you chosen to do this that's a huge honor by writing something down at the heart grow closer and basically he brought on different influential people Oliver United States entrepreneurs have created their own business and any talking about sale of business strategies that they brought me on as a nutritionist very different type of form that my business name brand and being able to share my story nutrition is very important as we now for overall health think about it from a business standpoint I can again have your point is why nutrition is essential to building a business from an entrepreneur print right why how did you become so passionate about this and getting the word out about nutrition now nutrition is something that always been important to me and I suffered from mental illness speaking or lapping in very unhealthy environments my mom was very absent for most my child had an very unhealthy growing up they prompted me to want to get into nutrition and extending into Shanghai Weightlifting along the lines on background that growing up base nutrition and always doing the right thing for family and along with my right to allot and different health issues related to later on sale I really have to make a lot of different changes in my diet to really think out but worked slowly back up and do you think that your you said you were not making healthy choices because you were trying to become stage ready you are starting to get a whole fitness modeling tell me about the add big mythic between felid and health that we live in a world where everything is the last thing on building muscle and makes me look healthy from outside you can lose weight eating teepees the defendant don't print any packet to be healthy now and I think a lot of them might have me think carbohydrate is carbohydrate and fat really is not the case any nutrition Avenue the carbohydrate is a need to stand on bath a big misconception concurrent with my American Standard something one of the cool things is that you become very best about it I think his attrition is turning into a business as awesome as gastroenterologist J I did not get that much training nutrition during my fellowship did you well it's a great point you bring up Canon and listening to Rachel talk kind of got those wheels turning in my brain and to echoed the point you just made it's important we get no training in that regard I mean that traditional pathways all based on pharmacology and medications and treatments and interventions and procedures that we do but these kinda more basic fundamental building blocks mean it's cliché but you are what you eat breakfast by cringing when she hears me say that but I think it it it really resonates and rings true in the current era it's been it's not something that we patient always talk to us about it but is something we have to defer to someone like Rachel who is an expert because we don't have that training unfortunately you know it's not something that you and I talked about were when I sit there and I actually tell my patients point blank some of the best knowledgeable people are fitness people bodybuilders an extreme sports like triathletes because they have to take it to the level where they are so dialed in and I learned a lot I learned a lot from my other colleagues have done that there are people out there I got a chiropractor friend of mine that we brought up before his name is Dr. Ron try to bend us in the Plano area delete triathlete is the first guy that's talking about nutrition and whole foods and things like that and so what you did is you jumped into this started getting into the body changing type of mind came from a background of it sound like a very difficult childhood and you want to control your life and then you did something and you paid a bit of a price that we deal with patients all the time the commensal tongue what happened after that cell I Carolina stress dietary strength physical strength training very hard on a lot of mental stress this volunteer instructor is one mean initiators and Ellen and over the course of training really hard and really trying to down I did not hear gastrointestinal issues in the process where basically I remember I couldn't eat anything anymore without being severely distended a lot of chronic bloating brain side and I mean I was miserable and even now from the outside and looked healthy I like definitely not healthy Ceylon really prompted my change in nutrition and going more into that function functional medicine and nutrition that is what is the most common patient the senior officer I mean you can as you know we see the full variety of digestive and liver issues but I would say is not a day that goes by that a patient doesn't come in with some of the issues that that that that Rachel is described that we don't have a blood test for necessarily that we don't have a an x-ray to do that we don't have a procedure that we can do to assess but it's it's all part of being thoughtful careful listening taking a good history as we call it and and part of that now as as Rachel brought to light is understanding what our patients are eating with the putting in their bodies that can help contribute to the symptoms this is a new developing burgeoning area of inquiry research and in clinical endeavor into exciting meeting to see what's coming out this I think it's kind of a it's funny because even somebody like myself who considers myself more functional casserole just I do podcasts all outgoing people shows and I'm unfortunately I want to try everything to see if there's something that's there so that I can offer to my patients so I will try reading first and then do it and we have a mutual friend Kevin Wilson who is actually my primary care Dr. and I had to laugh because I got blood work done and he called me up and is like to what is going on like everything I'm doing everything is accordingly much this supplement the summer I can try to figure out where I overshot it and my bloodwork got really screwed up liver test one my cholesterol got all messed up I went okay can't do everything all at once and what I did the real big mistake that I did as I played partial Kito I did dirty Q Roseland Chito you know what I want to sort of cheated what I wanted not the exact worst thing that you could do so even when you're living it you don't realize that you're doing some of these things so like you're living in your eating bad so how did you end up correcting all of that well I went from a lot of different doctors to doctor that blew my mind right now I ever talked about he never went back to when I was putting into my body endoscopy colonoscopy CT scan and MRI and everything analysis got stopped at the label of irritable bowel thing on which to diagnosis at all like a stinking nice next contend that any biofuel into depression throughout this process depressed and I was offered laxity is not offering that many if I think I mean how getting diagnostic at one point I had misdiagnoses and always miss is getting medication and medication anyone really went on to write that will cause what is causing this in the first place I went to see you and I think you are one of the first doctors actually saw something that a lot of doctors hypermobility going on here can't cannot let one and she is going to the Mayo Clinic and found that actually had a genetic defect. Thanks Thomas Ingram is about to sail could have been added by weightlifting and again it still came back to and once I really looked at my limiting a lot of different taste in that standard American diet really started to make progress in fevers don't think you really feel better overall J you and I've had discussions about this your thought leader in the industry I'm in your recognize on a national stage and both of us wish we weren't so busy I mean if you were were really too busy and there's something going on here where people are getting sicker it really is an epidemic I mean I think you know we see these folks every day and and again where we continue to struggle with a lack of I guess where all creatures of habit we want to be able to offer the test want to be able to offer the treatment we want to be able to offer a cure that these are complex issues and in the very individualized I think the one thing that both of us have realized over time is one of a person one patient is any different from another patient and and it's not some boilerplate it's not in a page 32 the textbook it's can be very individual approach patient by patient but you're right I mean these patients are filling our offices were happy to help him but we have many more resources and we mean we need needs things up and go back to be able to offer patients think that every time the I did a patient where I struggle we figure something out I become better I learn and I know I've met all of your partners I got my partners and just about everybody I know in our group digestive health Associates of Texas D hat is a very conscientious group this is a smart group like I think we've collected some of the best gastroenterologists in the country in one area and everybody wants people to get better so unfortunately when a patient comes in and we don't you do: EGD when you start thinking outside the box when you start thinking about the functional aspect of it so when you said you are functional nutritionist can you expand on that little bit of function on looking hot now find people going into the doctor and I think I have Andy throw the mind filling in anything really interesting because not just interesting testing that will cause would be there diet their lifestyle that I can exercise and really trying to deal with my nutrition practice I'm looking at real cot why do we have this problem in the first place inlet committee to restore function and it comes back to the lifestyle I die like an exercise in meaning initiators as chronic in today's world I think when I talk to people one of the things I discuss his death rolled as I believe there's three pillars of health one of them is gut health absolutely all hope begins and ends in the gut to use the we are chronically fatigued society and three rain you know I discussed on that article the beginning there about these different final cannabinoids and help the brain help me when you address a patient that has something like this and what is your what is your methodology to try to figure out how you can help this person and I think you're the approach you outlined these three pillars is is is key I think this this concept of sleep hygiene is something that's been under recognized and underappreciated for a long period of time and these are not mutually exclusive pillars right any date they feed into one another that the lack of sleep increases cortisol levels you eat as a result you feed the beast when those cortisol levels are up such a self fulfilling prophecy so I think the those three really do feedback on one another not be too exclusive in any way but I agreement I think again it goes back to this individual approach the patient in and try to understand exactly what that root causes as rituals ELOQUENTLY put on to help that patient yeah I think it's so cool that you chose functional medicine is really cool is that you chose a very Hartfield to maintain as somebody who's always worked out and I'm digging on pushing 50 now and I am trying to work out harder to do it all this other stuff tell me about the lifestyle of somebody that actually gets ready to go on stage well completely different in mind the least of my problems for me in the work that is kind engraved in my routine now I love working out nutrition and I love you now feeling my body appropriately and that the whole mindset of having to get up on stage in preparation in the training of food and take a bath link takes it to a whole never not a level running out for general person if he could just focus on healthy foods and eliminating process and artificial fluid that can really make a huge deal in their health that for someone who is a an Olympic athlete or something like a bodybuilder are trying to get to a certain level things have to be a little bit more now than when it comes to their carbohydrates and fat and protein intake and definitely takes a lot more concentration in a lot more work to really fascinating because I just got in the mail about Glenn Greenfield second revision of his beyond training have you usually with Ruben Greenfield is yet so bad I did his part just been is a former bodybuilder than triathlete and then now he's just a big proponent of his brand is your wrinkled tile KIO and supercool guy but in his book his intro the first chapter is the description of a 50-year-old guy whose tried to maintain his try to be a triathlete and in the process became skinny fat increased distress started having injuries and also the stuff and it just shows that in this desire to maintain health sometimes we miss the big picture they can can hear me oh yeah hey it's Eric I'm all I got here in the garage I was really lonely I run out of did it really wasn't a problem not of had to go outside so you help them Parks and Kari took a wonder I kept trying to I know it's a mystery just to add about talking on then Ben is actually going to come up to demonstrate his audience he actually saw Ben and his helper Angel Keeley's going to come to North Texas so that we can do a colonoscopy on someone who has gone through the quota quotes getting fat and that being basically he him working in nutrition just like Rachel does and then of course Dr. J Perry working in gastroenterology I think that something is really cool by the two people sitting across the table from you is that these are collaborators and they collaborate and they want to do something for their audiences much like what Ben wants to do so why don't we can talk a little bit about what it is that we want to do for the people and then we can really cannot get into that for the next whole hour the absolutely so one of things we talk about here we've got a brilliant guest urologist and a brilliant nutritionist Dr. Jaeger Perry spent a lot of his free time advocating for patients on a political level is a political science degree from Penn University what you choose that by the way science yeah well in a previous life I thought I was good to be a lawyer and and even become a lobbyist spent some time working on Capitol Hill between and after college and I realize overtime that wasn't for me but what I liked about twice I was it it's a field that makes you have to take a lot of information understand it digested no pun intended and and then be able to make arguments from it and it's very much like medicine you got it learn a lot be able to process it be able to assimilate it in bring it back out and order entered into care patients I mean I've from my standpoint's admittedly when you start medicine you work really hard to get them and then you become very selfish as you try to start your practice or try to feed your family good becomes you know this is my this is my dig so I've always watched you from the very beginning always be involved on the political stage always trying spread the message always trying to you been running the ACG practice management thing that I've been part of a couple times the project management group so what what we need is people with a voice that have a stage the to do something like this and then Rachel you got the functional nutrition background so one of the reasons our big offer is that we as a group digestive health Associates realized that our community in the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex could use a little assistance could use some knowledge could possibly use some of that it help just in case you're not eating perfect not able to go to whole foods and get the the wild salmon to get your omega-3 used to protect your brain to know all these other things and that's were to get into in the next half hour I don't want to spoil that too much I think it's a really cool thing Eric you want to comment on that no I do think it's a really cool thing there's a lot of challenges that people endure whenever they are going to select supplements and just doing anesthesia both with Dr. Perry Amber Dr. Brown I have personally seen people come through and they'll have a litany of things and then as both of y'all have seen those people leave the clinic whenever y'all done the examination will save habits that they have just isn't going to work for them or I don't know that I can trust the brands if you're spending all this money on so when I saw the two of y'all and the rest of the D had a group begin to work together to say we're going to tackle this issue where we can actually leave the walls of the clinic use some help from a nutritionist just like Rachel and began to find the correct type of supplements that would benefit people and lastly save money it takes the guesswork out of trying to be a good patient and trying to find health something it's really pretty awesome I think one of the cool things is that you're able to follow your patient home we can give some information if somebody follows you an answer which by the way how did you get 260,000 Instagram follows pretty happy what we up to Eric eight or something like that just got number nine Monica Crowley had no idea they were actually growling to be something that made I started it when I got an outstanding tensioning Titanic started posting track and recipes and think that I find to be motivational for myself in a way to hold myself accountable and I really wanted always to help you but I found his passion from the beginning fell over mechanically derailed and banned from each success has nothing to deal about it on fire as I have or about how much money a status value I can bring to others and how many lives that I contact change that's really been important for me having as my foundation I think has allowed me to really grow my following and really create that trust now so I think very much like taking an oath that were going to treat people well you know social media is got to the point where now you're held to a certain obligation. You also have a responsibility to do things correctly people look up and down a lot of information even on social media for example there was the cochair recently in the Dallas-Fort Worth area has led getting out different diet plans and putting herself as a coach and scamming people out of money set itself up to the consumer to do their research and are looking for coaches online and looking to people for advice on sale social media have a huge influence in people do not have to honor that I think you and I were talking about the Netflix special fire were I believe that they are trying to prosecute some of the influencers you write there later using their using their influence for four not good and I think the D had obviously is taking the can the complete opposite approaches they want to guide people that are already turning to them for advice and visa returning patient so obviously you want to be satisfied so I think that your online reputation speaks for itself you have an incredible social media presence on online reputation patients are saying go see Dr. your per it's the same thing you're getting as physicians you are being spoken about in patients trust you and there to tell their mother's sister friend husband wife to go see you and you and obligation to do that also to know sometimes get tough cases well and it's this notes the community right so you is you and Rachel both touched on it's this idea that were being held accountable there's a lot of ways in which were held accountable but I think is that we started to realize you are pioneering the scan but this idea that our patients are starting to look online and an understanding that the doctors that they're seeing the professionals at their seen counselors there seem this is not well understood or well fleshed out sick seven years ago but clearly over the last five years as its gain momentum when we realize this is how our patients are finding us now and it's it's in a word of it's the 21st century word-of-mouth if you will and and and you know I think unfortunately there still a lot of fraud out there but what what hopefully social media online reputation patients being proactive in reviewing doctors and in other providers is the idea that they're going to help people find the right provider for them that's going to help get them where they need to get total in I think that you probably if you put yourself out there so what I do admire about you Rachel is that number one to get up on stage with a little close which is able to do I would have to if I did some sort of stage competition it would be like jumpsuit things are this is why got a bikini And starting again it's a bit better for everybody well you know what I mean I was following you for a long time on Instagram in your bikini competition I been the last follower I have another as long as I could and I appreciate I'm looking right now where is there were some convocations they asked that it was taken down to I think that's one of the requirements of bikini modeling is landscaping and I will leave it at that have nothing to add to that no but I think that's so one of the things that Jay and I have to deal with which sometimes is a very good thing is the negative review and I sometimes it's valid sometimes not very often it'll tell me that if they warned me of something tried to call couldn't get through it's things were always working on in the business aspect that's one person there's probably 20 people and we really do acknowledge that and the person helps me out with that to-Keith Kaiser who a look at these and says okay you're seeing a trend here we need to sit down with the office manager and possibly talk that may be XYZ is broken so we I use these reviews as a way to grow as well not just say okay yeah this is kind of doing well do you ever get any negative things on your Instagram with 259,000 people out there to over 250,000 people and you're gonna get people always have something to say and think it's taking anything else on and course I like to listing any type of feedback that I can take in and prove myself and they also just cannot stay out of that negativity and just focusing on the people who I can actually benefit any and most important to me okay so one of the things review of weird people with income embouchure but my kids don't have phones and I'm 14-year-old a 12-year-old and the reason is because I discovered a YouTube video early on which discussed how there the equivalent of getting lights is a little dopamine release very similar to other things that you can become addicted to and ultimately when you are depleted in dopamine dear Sir or basically when you release dopamine your serotonin goes down so your happiness is serotonin your pleasures dopamine and the phones really can do that because it consumes you and so I let my children decide right now they have chosen to say you know what were just going to cut up avoided that right now which I'm happy about it's I don't know how much longer I can do they all can I hate to cut you off only got about one minute left before have to take our four minute break and I do want to let everyone know that Rachel Scheer and Dr. J Perry will be joining us and then for the next hour but before anybody has to they have to check out and they want to learn more kindling hold that that box of just so people can get a preview organ we talk about the next hour that is the D hatbox and if you want information without any cost to you to be sent to you as soon as it's available go to D hat box.com it's DH ATB OS X.com and then you will be some of the first in the country to be given the opportunity to check out anything more avidly likely to quit so this is we just got to know you guys over this first half-hour now going to get into some super fun stuff like ridges own love this product Jason to get into that about the signs of that were to talk about the box and about different supplements that Rachel likes to use to look this great instantiate so combat for the next half hour or to get into the science part of the refund this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun clear spoony is this our Townhall.com, as word Atty. Gen. bar a no-show this morning before the House Judiciary Committee wanted to ask more questions about the molar report are skipping the hearing in a dispute with Democrats over plans to allow committee lawyers to take part of the questioning Georgia Republican Doug Collins reason Belmar is not here today is because the Democrats decided that in morning here today we didn't choose not that Mr. Barcomb he chose Chairman Jerry Nadler we will we cannot permit him anybody ministration to dictate the manner in which we function Nadler adjourning the hearing following the committee will get the answers it needs to conduct oversight capital Hill correspondent Molly Hines German that were threatening to hold borrower in contempt of Congress yesterday the Atty. Gen. spent six hours before the Senate Judiciary Committee one senator raising some serious last test about the origins of the Russia collusion investigator Lindsey Graham says one thing's for sure about the FBI probe into Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server we know that the person in charge of investigating hated traps guys grandma says a blanket over that hatred led to Hillary Clinton being exonerated despite the evidence and that counterintelligence investigation the trap campaigns worn it featured a heading that investigation bowing and text messages to stop trauma from being elected by new report Sen. Michael Bennet of Colorado the latest Democrat to announce he's running for president strategy and plan to announce sooner but pause after being diagnosed with prostate cancer I was cleared with a clean bill of health that gave me a chance to think about whether I really wanted to run or not better tell CBS's morning he decided he does want to Bonnie seeking the party's presidential nomination for 2020 Wall Street the Dow up 15 points the S&P better by five and the NASDAQ composite index 26 points higher more of these stories@townhall.com now you can fly anywhere in the world and paid discount prices on your airline tickets flight today to learn this harassment to read or anywhere else you want to go and pay a lot less guarantee quality international travel department right now low-cost airlines 800-452-1075 800-452-1075 that's 800-452-1075 Dr. Kim Brown here a host of ship project with my cohost Eric Rieger Eric Regency and mojo guys over there and overhears Mooney talk about 20 over bloating I've seen in my practice that I'm trying to is a whole lot more than just a floating product yes it does a whole lot more than just exploding because polyphenols that you find keen on trying to get your exactly right the polyphenols are those molecules we find in the Mediterranean diet it makes vegetables and fruit very colorful polyphenols do these polyphenols can actually stop and nation help you have more energy thinking have you antiaging and polyphenols are great athletes sounds like a hellhole more people than just loading tell me how it is taking out front if you want to go so 2002 capsules three times a day face you aren't bloated and just want to polyphenol intake everyday to three chances are they will go to love my tummies.com/never forgotten apparel is more than just a premium women's and men's clothing line it's a movement to remind us to where American-made and serve those who serve us our heroes never forgotten apparel gives 20% of their total sales to nonprofits that support homeless veterans and off-duty firefighters and 50% to individual veterans and firefighters in need nationwide checkout never forgotten apparel.com use promo code Matt and ATT and get 15% off your purchase oh Mike we are back I was having separation anxiety comes that Levi got stuck at their lady is no way you can count on without you know Senate small it was to properly throw me off I Have a look over there trapped in a glass cage of a move should I want to bring so sorry I hate the fact that now that I'm back there we got more serious that's that's the sad part and knows no laughter all all all the fun stuff is over now hate just a real quick reset we are gotcha project we are on the spinning networks we.com course host several shows you mentioned earlier trays chow down chef Patrick who works is our producer also as a show on their but did you know Dr. J you. If you met him he is considering starting a nether health based show on screen or is that about his former career as a bikini model that's exactly what just happened you know I think that's exactly where came to a failed attempt at bikini modeling and and lack of landscaping that's where that came from I can imagine with the title going to be but as long as main scape works in there it's going to be thinking of you will be it will be a nice hit the panic up of the bills for this next to lowered be sure to check out love my Tommy.com/spooning as lobotomy.com/vignettes where you will find your offer just for listening to spoony and the gut check project to save money on trying to heal and what we hear Dr. J were good people go to learn a little bit more about ridge them so the ease place to go to his riches zone.com are IDU CO and E.com it'll give you it will give folks a good overview of what Richie's own is the science behind it of which there is quite a bit and and how it works and how we like how we how we think people should use it really get the best benefit from perfect and Rachel Scheer make make no bones about it she's got what an incredible following so Rachel what is your favorite way for people to connect with you as well I can connect with me like it's pretty simple lights at Rachel RA HDL and my last name Scheer each EEI canopy where the majority of my social network is to be found my website which is again just 9% nice Rachel Scheer.com Rachel Sherry.com well let's not KISS alright so let's not lose our momentum on what were talking about because when I get here before I had the microphone working again is that we talk a lot about synergy collaboration and it always comes with the right person in mind which is to benefit the patient before you joined us earlier J I can remember that you always know your colleagues that our patient centric or patient advocates and I think that's a key reason on why you were chosen to be the CML why you've never turned away from research and why your patients I've seen firsthand don't just want to be trusting their health decisions with you they like coming to see so knowing they were putting the patient first what it rejected take what did it what it is they were doing is a collaborative to put something together like the hatbox okay so we try to get into a little bit and lost all but the reality is were doing something which is actually incredible very innovative were to be the first large single specialty group to put together health in a box we want to put health in your hands and nothing of your slogan here so the hat is arranging a program where we can put the holes were many Americans lack because of nutrition we can help them out Rachel and I were just talking about this Rachel like for instance when you see somebody what are some of the common supplements that you like to have your clients on that I think there are four essential supplement everyone should be on the first to be a high-quality monk like to say that we can get all of the nutritional needs from the food that were eating back just Arabian American band standardized and fast is not really reality standing on a high quality multivitamin to prevent any type of nutritional deficiencies on this icon would be a good probiotic game going back to got to be the foundation for how promoting a good healthy got my car bran on the third one would be a vitamin D some most the population is deficient in vitamin D and vitamin D became to get from
sale especially here in Texas and because it's hotter now that I'm very much and just in general and a lot of micronutrients testing in the majority of my clients come back with a deficiency in vitamin D then the fourth amendment be in omega-3 fish oil saddle again going back to standard American diet we get a lot more on Bacchus Texas which are pro-inflammatory and instantly need to counter act by adding in more on the three check enemy anti-inflammatory said that for that I think everyone ought to be and it's going to be a good multivitamin probiotic vitamin D and omega-3 fish oil so hearing that list Dr. Brown or Dr. Perry what were some of the pitfalls that the patient to come into both of your practices what what is it that someone comes in with a Rachel hit the nail on the head will get to it in moment but whenever she said hi quality probiotic there is tons of bacteria sources out there that some you may say is beneficial you say that you said it what you think when someone is watching some random probiotic and any notes expensive it's a great questionnaire and the issue is so can I see this every day in the office is some will come in and and it's this it's a typical scene they'll be sitting there and then on the exam table to put out the bottles of snuff caretaking and one by one the go when you think about this what you think about this what you think about this and most the time and and can may have the same shirts I have to say I don't know because these things have not been vetted wheat we don't know and I don't know enough about them to recommend one or another and I will generally say that you know in general I think this is probably safe to use I don't know of any downside but I can't 100% recommend or give a stamp of approval to something because it's not something I've vetted that I know enough about that did to him to be able to give it that enthusiastic or at least thumbs up and that's tough because again you know skin spoke to in the first half we try to establish his rapport with our patients and establish trust in and get that sense if you be a resource for them we can be experts on everything which again is why folks like Rachel are so integral and essential to this process but at the end of the day it's nice to be able to have a way to have a structured way to have a a a supplements and other and other things we can recommend to our folks and that's where I think the box comes so yeah I think that's you know there's a study that came outward look at DNA analysis and that showed almost 79% of the of what is in the bottles not on the label 79% of the products that are on big box shelf so we know that there is a lot of possibly maybe not complete a quality it's being sold out there because it's kind of unregulated and then in your industry when we look at weight loss product sexual enhancement products and I can't know what the other one is almost 40% of those categories had dangerous pharmaceuticals and so in your industry so and I had some patients that are showing up with the liver failure and when you start looking and what what what's going on here is to look at the list you like what what is that ends up being a pro hormone the problem is metabolism the liver and it's creating anyways so it's not only you may be wasting your money but there is a slight possibility that you could actually be harming your body so that's why we came together as a group to say look working to try and that these were you trying find things in a certificate of analysis third-party testing let's see what's there there is some science with that I'm trying to get our group Dr. Harry Sorrel to do this almost every show I call him out because I want to do functional research I want DRI which is digestive research Institute our research division of D hat to look at some of these things would you know really I think it's we can help people out so when somebody holds us out they could say because is no money in doing the research it's not that people don't want it it's just who to pay for that's the problem so it's a win-win for everyone right we we can enthusiastically confidently recommend supplements to our patients that we know of in fetid at that are tested that don't have these contaminants in these deeds DDD DDD contents and an obscurant can be harmful you know and be able to do that in a way that that we can within the confines that patient physician relationship absolutely so you know we live in the space discovered this after we developed upfront to one of the things we do have a something will NSF certified which is certified for sport usually without Rachel. So can you explain to everybody what this is yeah to be certified by that I mean yeah so basically what it does is so many Olympic athletes college athletes Pro UFC fighters and things they they will have random things pop up on the drug test we paid a lot of money to make sure that what is on our label we bid 1/3 party company to prove that what we have in the capsules is the same thing that's on the label doesn't add as no doubt so NSF certification and certified for sport is specific in terms of the CBA that they have both with all dietitians and nutritionists with MLB NFL most NCAA functions etc. they have to have that mark on their of its OTC and it's a supplement and what it says is that company paid not just for their brand but every single lot that's produced is scanned is said put through gas chromatography and spectroscopy and they make certain there are no contaminants in there they can harm the athlete or make them show up positive for something they should be taking in addition to every claim it's on all the literature as to be vetted and proven for them to do so so all your clinical trials are to do that to be to be a part of that that same approach is what D had is doing for everything else that's in there which I think is awesome because you said you said it yourself a high quality omega-3 that sounds great but how I know who's making what and what happens to be all about you you said that there were 70 whatever percentage it is that showed up with trace pharmaceuticals and so yes a 40% short of their recent article just cannot earn it showed they looked at a bunch of different melatonin so we we subscribe to several different third-party sites that look at this and they had melatonin where it ranged from 10% of what was on the on the milligrams dosage to like 400% now some of this is not the fault of the company because as we have found out that when we get raw product shipped retest top middle and bottom because unfortunately when people are ordering raw product from other countries to save money they will fill with filler and then put only the top portion of it with the product and the company pays for that so what happened in that one study were 79% of the companies they were trying to do the right thing there assume it and you literally have to do that because if you're ordering raw products from other countries sometimes these big that's come in and you it's just not exactly the same same quality I think the key here for the listeners is to make sure that when they're going to take a supplement really drill down on is has this been approved by third party by approve is a bit of that can be if it can be tough or do you sometimes verification process to verify what's in there is what the claim is this in there that there's not a containment server table with Richardson we are; new dietary ingredient designation from the Afghans as many listeners may be aware supplements are not FDA certified there's no certification process but what the FDA can do is say this is safe we regarded as safe so one of the things were most proud about with Richard Stanley brought to market we spent a lot of time and effort resources to get that NDI designation from the FDA says this is safe FDA synthesis is that with the FDA knowledge stamp is that correct exactly what the acknowledgment so and get a language issue you want to be very careful but that acknowledgment means the FDA said as acknowledge this is a safe is a safe product and riches is really one of the few products I know that even carries that that seal of approval from the FDA which is a huge endorsement yet we were actually really looking into that were like men with what is that you start looking into it and there's so much confusion with us so let's talk about our colleagues that are well a lot of doctors don't really understand this industry and so when we start talking about this so when a nutritionist or talk about diet starts on what supplements sometimes a lot of Dr. stick your head in the sand and just say well I I haven't seen literature on the witnesses drug rep hasn't brought it in numbers brought lunch to me so what this box is to represent is it's the D hat health box it's not just trying to make sure that you can have a few of these key things which I will ask you one question I would ask Jay this also when I went to medical school you could not be vitamin D deficient if you live south of Nebraska and now everyone's vitamin D deficient what's going on with this we know it's I think it's interesting can it went when when rituals talk about vitamin D being one of the essential supplement she recommends her clients you remember when we started some bloodwork coming from referring doctors primary care doctor sending us patients and ICDs vitamin D test like what unit we train about vitamin D deficiency this is not some there was in our math and now it's endemic to me it's it's an epidemic and and as Rachel touched on a few minutes ago I think it was underrecognized and undertreated and in and so I think there now that awareness that knowledge is taken over but you're right I need that season coming Thursdays going back to your your point earlier the way were trained we don't have a framework to understand things that are outside the paradigm and I will ask you what I give Ken a lot of credit for his he's you are pioneer in allotting up saying that there is a mechanism in a way to do this and with structured recognized sonically valid safe and an end to that we can we can be trust our patient can trust as we recommend the stuff that's new that's different we haven't had that we come to what we came to training that wasn't there for things we have the boxer things I resent things like that absolutely same thing when in the world of nutrition for you I mean there's lots of people out there who say that I'm a nutritionist and then they'll still get about knee-deep they get some followers of the get some clients that's kind of where it started but that's not how you approached really anything like that I think in time if you can lose weight make your health expert and fail on nutrition goes back to more than just the baby buggy because back to how we feel it goes back to everything that you're putting into my body and how thinking more than just taking our vitamins are taking a supplement fan working on exercising even mine fattening the whole picture and that's really what going back to that function on salads looking at the lifestyle approach we I tell my patients that people come in and they will talk about the different prescription drugs that are there and they talk about adding no this lifespan years when we start giving people drugs in this drug plus this drug was destroyed in a word improving the lifespan I tell my patients how is your health span I will make sure that you are healthy at the age that you want to be we need to improve health span not lifespan and I think we do that through proper lifestyle functional ways everyone can wanting that quick fix to go to the doctor they just want to be handed email medication for that class drawn effects and expect next holiday season should lower their cholesterol and I can be there only see if they're out of shape and overweight have a whole list of issues is about selling out interesting one thing with medication paint and Band-Aid over to anybody want to get back to my real concept we can really get Optima unfortunately have heard best from loving Jane the CEO of VAIO bio that we met him at a conference with client and so revealed some mutual friends and he was giving a lecture and he said unfortunately we have created an entity the praise on itself needs disease to keep going we have hospitals that run we got pharmaceutical industries we got this and it is almost a self-perpetuating issue where it said the healthcare industry needs disease to keep going at least in the West will look at how reimbursement works and how that kinda dictates who gets a priority in the OR I mean it was what 15 years ago cardiac procedures in the Cath Lab were chock full and they were people I had that third-party investments specifically and in that specialty and now the reimbursements been trimmed down and it's falling to other places whether it happens to be you can get a hiatal hernia repair while you end up getting a gastric sleeve and that's where the money is now so that kinda ends up dictating the the ideas in terms of who's going to be treated and in bulk and in Madison this approach is far different what you said about J what you said about 10 is spot on but you're no stranger that yourself is how you ended up being the senior CMO ridges on theirs is a reason why an altruistic dock ended up being a CMO of a company like ridges onus because you knew there is a better answer then just relying on pharmaceuticals rigid zone is is it's made from a natural ingredient you this is a great topic and could be a show or shows on itself about how American medicine is really good it the heroic interventions stopping the heart attack saving the heart stopping the bleeding ulcer were really good at that stuff were not good I will become middle-of-the-road at at least by all the a lot of the conventional metrics is prevention keeping us from getting to that point in the first place so you know whether it's a simple intervention or I should say simple were there to a more fundamental intervention when Rachel sits down with the client says let's start to get some these things in order from basic what you put in your body fitness etc. to something like rigid zone which is at helping curb your appetite in a safe non-stimulant something that we produce our own bodies method to prevent those downstream sequelae of obesity diabetes crevasse or disease etc. etc. I'm yeah I mean I think it's a much more rewarding we we trained Ken and I trained were weak we were good at those heroic thing we can do those but what we didn't train with her what income naturally and was a challenge to me and, what got me excited was that ability to sake let's take that excretion go from a different side now see we can help folks in a different way I just thought of something hear me out coming up next half hour we got Dr. Jacob Purdy hosting the Monday intervention that no more heroic interventions follow Dr. J very well he explains Monday ways to improve your health check your Medscape at the door with no social media like that what what did you feel like it was like to step outside the road the comfort zone of the norm to because that's no easy task what's a challenge right and again you have the naysayers conventional we call allopathic Western medicine that say there's not there's not a research study that looks at the stars in the literature based on this there's not multiple randomized controlled trials double-blind placebo-controlled trials at St. this is better X is better than why that's the challenge right to me it's it's to reconcile what you want to do that's right for the patient client whomever with with with with science and and and science it may not be as well vetted or understood yet but that we want to get there I want to comment on that really quick because we had to guess on that that basically are hindered by the fact that the science is not in what they call more reparable journals so James Carroll that has the bifocal modulation shocked while he was on the show I found tons on pub med and asked how is this not more used is like because people quote of the journals aren't really that now Dr. Wade McKenna same thing on stem cells what in the world now we do this without trying to deal with the randomized placebo-controlled trial we've got one word's failure therein what we would call whatever what you and I would call lesser tier journals but the reality is I've talked to a lot of feng shui gastroenterologists have done some incredible work in Louisville Kentucky or my fellow Dryden children Gerald Wright, faculty of mine was not all that done until that happens I love that guy always and he he actually studied ECG see Green Tree green tea extract and also the colitis had brilliant results and he got really good and is a PhD and a full bird colonel and like the guys academic and get relegated to a poster presentation and couldn't even get published when one talk about it read like there is a certain bias towards big Pharma getting published there so keep in mind that just because there's not literature that is being handed to you by drug rep does not mean that there is not literature out there when we have our graduate student finding literature about the way we found tens of thousands of articles to dispute different arguments that we've had like yesterday's argument so it's very interesting because doctors will say that don't go oh I need more literature so without trying to I would sit there look at people do what you need home and what's your number no it's it's the industry that we have created unfortunately I want to change what the industry did you hit the nail on the head it's it's industries has the editor of the premier journal and to suffer from prophecy he satisfies check certain boxes off because and and and and and it's things are to be recognized and things are to be what what what that what his cohort thinks is acceptable that is initially make mean that something from a journal that's not as will recognize me just less valid it's just that because he didn't check those boxes often our colleagues make make make organ so want that I can do that I can recommend you be so cool to change the healthcare landscape in an environment I want to see DFW change so that we help people sleep we help people with their diet we help them with their supplements and that's data that we can use overlook the DFW Metroplex started out with the D had health box to give them information to give them encouragement to give them exercise advice 30 get that delivered to the house when I had I we only have about 30 seconds until we have our last break but we can talk in the next half-hour little bit about even though it's in our backyard this is the large zone at DFW but if you happen to be watching anywhere else anybody in the US can go to de hatbox.com to get all the information to move forward in the next half hour without re-visit Rachel's list on things it would be in this box if you were to be a recipient of it what you can do to grow your box to develop your your value within that box save money everything else on top of signs ridges on also do all that stuff when I exit my time I feel a bit use the expenses blue yellow pills to charge your sex life are you thinking about what we can promise you the same results for the three if you are paying $20 a pill for the underpants you're getting taken to the cleaners same results for less than three dollars more than $16 Intel for the same results right now we will get 44 blue or yellow pills 23 discrete shipping you can save more than $100 on pharmacy prices right now your 44 pounds over $700 and qualify for free shipping over pain and, right now 800-2186 473-800-2186 473-800-1864 73 800-218-6473 Dr. Kim Brown here a host of project with my cohost Eric Rieger I've seen in my practice that upfront is a whole lot more than just the bloating product yes it is a whole lot more than just exploding because of the polyphenols that you find in Alicante what are some of the things these polyphenols do these polyphenols can help you have more energy and polyphenols are great sounds like good health: more people than just loading go to love my family.com/take the pain out of ordering your diabetic testing supplies with diet thrive diatribe ships the testing supplies you need directly to you when you need them best of all with plans starting as low as eight dollars a month diatribe is probably going to cost you less than what you're paying today diatribe is so convinced that you love their service they're offering your first month of supplies three simply type the Kodak DOC and checkout dial Thrive.com that's DIA Thrive.com looking back it is going to be the last half-hour of today's episode nine gets a project that every time we come back I'm like what the heck what the hell happened before how this goes so fast I know you also think it is that we this is almost every single show at this point I come in late and R2 just came in late because of potty break I put set supportive bodies or something it is an exciting ride outside your all we have in the diapers next week next week we can take a camera outside and you'll see that just be on the storage is Rotary's dullness and insane paper for life anyway this is also I just got message I want to know more about ridges on let's executor that is a way to teach something Dr. J went out to great segue so read you soon RIG UCO NE is its sole ingredient is something called now I'll say it once and all abbreviated only oral ethanol might go I can sort out that where were you earlier when I was trying to say that you should've there will be a test at the end say it 10 times really fast with the 20s are only a is is what the conventional abbreviation is only allowed to know myself OEA is actually a in the contaminant as I'm sure you've discussed or been or or or discussed on the show before and in Kenya and in other in other in other forms that's actually made in the human small intestine in the human gut and its role is to actually bind to a receptor in the lining of the gut that has some downstream effects biochemically the two basic ones are one to send a signal to the satiety center of the brain to say on full and the other is a whole host of downstream biochemical processes that have to do with lipolysis or breakdown of fat uses use of fat as a as a substrate for energy and then also have effects on regulation of blood sugar so insulin and glucagon levels that regulate blood sugar that the receptor or that this idea of a lock and key were the receptors the law can liaise the key this is kind of a basic foundation for how things are bodywork right so in this scenario the receptor for which OEA is a cynical people are also which is Ken knows is a is a as a target for NSA organizes a target for a lot of pharmaceutical agents out there effort between management of the diabetes which interesting as those pharmaceutical agents don't have the effects that rigid zone has in terms of make you feel full and and also the beneficial effects on Fatma tablet increase metabolism and an increasing fat breakdown and favorable cholesterol profiles so how the the appetite suppressing property works is via the vagus nerve a signal directly to the satiety center in the brain that says I feel full and it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier it doesn't stimulate the hearts of the most important thing here with a lot of prescription weight loss agent and rate structure similar what this is all those horrible stories we've heard about in Canon I've seen these folks or they might have been a fatal heart rhythm animality from some of the that from some the prescription agents or the stuff crosses the blood brain barrier said interacts with other medications at the spokes maybe and we don't have any of those problems with Richardson it it's not an issue with that's kind of the 30,000 foot view limits really stressed about satiety thing does it affect leptin are growing at all those grayling being the one that makes you hungry left and make you fearful when he does those mechanisms are not as well elucidated or understood there there are over 250 peer-reviewed journal articles talk about journal peer-reviewed journals all and in many top-tier journals looking at reducing the OEA's safety and efficacy across the spectrum of animal and in some human models as well so but yet there there's deftly those mechanisms are involved at but not as well blessed well fleshed out yet so material for something the Mediterranean diet seems to do a lot of these things anything the Mediterranean diet that could well be tied to ridges and that is a great point so where only eight so what we have is a is awaited to extract OEA from olive oil only on phenol miter OEA is a fatty acid metabolite so it's a derivative of fatty acids of a fatty acid and it's actually found in olive oil that the problem is to get the amount of OVA in one bottle version you have to drink like 12 leaders of olive oil which I'm not sure that goes over to as Rachel to guzzle you not to say that probably not baptize just like mommies do a lot of exactly so we have a method to extract OEA from although this method was actually devised you should carefully Irvine a little over reckless to 15 years ago and and and being in a product to market so I know that you're the chief medical officer but you're also involved in the business with now I involved with the business of this and I'm essentially the chief medical officer also we the people that run the company and they do a great job of that but so it was the technology to get it was 15 years do you know the history of the company to get where they're at right now yes opening back up a little bit talk about the technology so the original method again was developed at UC Irvine and without getting too deep in the weeds about it one of the big players in pharmaceutical space about 15 years ago acquired the technology so how this works is that universities and research institutes that think they have the technology that could be of commercial viability or or a broader use the put those out there and and and investors will check these out and decide if people think they may be interested in maybe a commercial application for the stove will take down the road a big Pharma company acquired it was going to tear acquiring technologies in the cholesterol weight loss base about 15 years ago they bought it and shelved it is basically to block other people want competition they want competition and so when that company got acquired the technology reverted back to the University and said it was available for someone to pick up and that's basely how we found it okay will
it sounds very similar in terms of what's happening with a lot of natural solutions is it someone will end up buying the technology they want to sit on as it inevitably comes competition for there long projected project.they think is going to give them more margin when in truth generally nature is going to almost always be the solution is going to be better than pharmaceuticals you elicit off tons of side effects from pharmaceuticals before so essentially were just avoiding all of that Rachel's been a gigantic proponent for John Teal for quite some time you made the comparison about how many ever gallons of all the way that you that you that you had have using some of the science that we had from the polyphenol experts attend experts with all 2001 of the best examples we had for athletes was you would typically have to consume five bowls whole cherries to get one days supply polyphenols if I'm not trying to heal very similar to you to do that juries are great for you blueberries any blueberries be great for you but that's just way too much fructose probably for one day they started taking a train tell initially because that for my drawling frontloading and that I think actually did help me a lot with workout especially with postbreakup recovery healthcare outlets wanted to think that I actually has a great impact on it Elaine that Don said that delayed onset muscle so anything you can recover fast aching get back in again faster than you can ground myself is that at a much faster rate that being said just superquick iPods as I do step out I got a few messages where a few people said that the real Mafia that means you are listening long enough that you need to refresh your browser which is good news that means living things into the whole time so were still here just refresh your browser if you been with us since the beginning stage one so that's why step out of the room like oh we but were still hip were still on everywhere so your host and IT director Dr. Kenneth Brown anyway man of many hat hats will each of you don't mind you had a list and just to refresh the audience and before forget Dee had box.com D had box.com if you just want to sign up to simply learn more you can go there and you will be notified of all the information is it's made available I believe early next week that being said Rachel you listed off for base supplements right and I'm sorry Tamika Joffe said it was a revocable probiotic probiotic and good quality vitamin D three fish so one of the things that the president he had Jim Heckert was very excited about whatever he decided to hop on board and get out get all of the physicians aligned was that this is an opportunity to make certain they were putting the right supplements in front of people so it's talkative about how this works so somebody were to sign up for the D hatbox the way I understand it is there going to get two upscale high core products which would be are trying to heal and as you mentioned a revocable probiotic and we met Karen Krishnan the CEO and researcher for mega spore which actually delivers bacteria to where it belongs so one of the things that so the CEO of mega spores that they have the probiotic and spore form which is a higher likelihood of gender: work and then be in the right environment and flourish and so the science behind that is kinda cool to like a little next level of probiotic, things so the cool thing is not my people get recommended mega spore though directly from a physician so they partnered with D hats health box simply because of Dr. J you can you and your colleagues putting in that input that that's what belongs in a box like this and so they reduce the cost it's not it's not it's not completely inexpensive it's affordable but not inexpensive but they they want people to be able to get healthy you want people to be able to maintain their health so they they trimmed their cost the same thing without trying to the same thing with with the other supplements that the Rachel listed but that didn't really really important thing is that whether something is in the core box or not it doesn't stop there so listers you've all heard Dr. Jade reference Rich's own which zone is soon going to be a part of the marketplace this is a whole another world simply to those who join this box you have access to things that are good for your brain health that'll help you sleep talking with their brain FM about adding their products simply to this box what we want to offer is putting your health in your hands which is that right there in the front of the so this is going to continue to grow we've partnered with Stephen Ezzell of member box what you can be able to do is go to an online store now everybody it's hearing this you're getting basically the prelaunch information about this so go over there it's that box de hatbox.com do you have box.com in addition to that the were going make sure that you become healthier but we get people like Rachel contributing to it giving exercise advice we've got people like Dr. J Europe hurry that's gonna review articles and write things in working offer we are actually teamed up with multiple authors you may get a book 3 in the box that comes in there so were really excited the bottom line is my ultimate goal just like your talk about is to change the landscape of health in this area I'm with two phenomenal professionals that that's your ultimate goal anyways this is a way to get it out a little bit bigger little further since were the first doing this we can go beyond DFW we can go to we want everyone sharing this so if you listen to this after sharing it again watch it later just send it to your mom send it to your sister your whoever it is say hey I think it's something that you enjoy the question in the end and it is that Dr. J said earlier it's a win win win for everyone you win because you're getting the guidance of people that you trust your positions already home so were merely arty targeting the patients they come in and out and giving in this opportunity and letting them know they if if this works for you pass it on to your family members get a huge benefit because we have a nutritionist weighing in on the way that supplements are benefiting people out via outside and beyond the clinic and what people are turning to and then they actually get to save money they get enough that they need every single month so you save money you get guidance you know that every thing in the boxes vetted you then shown endorsed products that you may or may not wish to add to your box each month all in all it takes a lot of the guesswork and saves money on your pocketbook yeah and I just got texted again by Vegas Magnus Vaughn Magnusson and he says that the my box won't fit that's a problem that we didn't do very well to let so if you're strong man we can get your own number box there is a lot of input from from the today on ESPN so I well Rachel tell me a little bit more about what it's like to collaborate with the gastroenterology group in helping them and then probably what changing that landscape is going to do for you as you try to to reach other people 92's impact is also like to talk to can't help thinking that looking back got first chair we have optimal taking extent because everything goes back to energy levels and maybe absorb nutrients and chiropractic protein and micronutrients and it can affect every body price that's that working with a stranger how I just cannot be I sent my clients because nutrition is the foundation and pay big part in going back tonight gets a happy expertise at Dr. Bronfman my gastroenterologist standpoint I'm really creates a bigger picture is it's not telephone it's not the of some of the best doctors in the country well you know that that that hit Sonoma having this is that that that what's in the box is curated and supported our company practice of 90 board certified gastroenterologist I don't know where you could go to get that kind of back in that kind of checkbox I can trust what's in there for you to get 90 doctors degree in southern well let's talk about some more doctors for second because I think whenever I travel and I told people Eric and are part of several orange manure groups it is fascinating when I go and talk to people and there like you have 90 doctors and yeah we've got in our own group we've got pancreas specials Paul turn nasty will in my pot it's going to be Ackerman Goldschmidt and they do incredible things they do stuff that you like what you guys doing this is not something you little doing surgery from the inside you do endoscopic ultrasound yourself which is a very advanced technique in the did you get extra training and matter how the yeah unfortunately to be able learn these advanced techniques we were blessed indeed he had to have several specialists trained in these and connects level techniques and procedures I say unfortunately does take an extra year to two depending on when he came out training beyond our usual training paradigm to get to learn those techniques in it such as learning how do the procedures also selecting the patient right who needs and who doesn't need him because I think that's as important as anything else making sure you do the right thing for the patient and in the right way and offering them something is best not and an end so we been very fortunate with the have to have this expertise you know air across the Metroplex and be able offer that and in different areas where that's where I where I am here in the mid cities in Northeast Tarrant to out in Plano and northern suburbs are in the heart of Dallas works out for the West Fork the reason I want to bring that up is because when you get your box we have a connect with the hat right here one of the things I really want to do is I want the does not to be the heart of every sort enough to be DFW it can be anywhere that we have these experts so we start getting a series of social media questions we can actually put something together put in the box are these of the most common questions regarding who was the right person that to undergo this for instance Rachel we're talking on the other show over there something that really shocked me tell me about the macros meeting how do you divide up your calories to stay so fit Bob actually archive staff encrypting file to be dependent in different for each person on there are fundamentals of any consultation by naming we all need to be eating hopefully down on email getting a lot of different nutritional intake spent on actual macro nutrients depend on each person For example you went pick someone here is 55 years old trying to lose 40 pounds of fat on a high carbohydrate diet versus someone who is maybe an Olympic 25 years old and I tried many documents all day thinking very different macronutrient intake by they might require a much higher carbohydrate intake center micronutrient and it found Stella how much carbs fats and protein you need overall calorie intake is very much depend on an individual basis that there are the fundamentals that do apply all across the board which goes back to the sources of RFID that were eating and basically getting back to those whole foods are set how would you divide up the macros they want your clients was a former bikini model now turn to answer all just the does endoscopic ultrasound now what demographic change audience form and became a center I practice and I Gail you back for that is incredible visually as a Jody has an algorithm radio and Sybase protein intake thoughts on muscle mass and that person failed on your protein intake it can be different for each present immediate different from expecting meaning it can be based on the Internet individual on how much protein A need to separate the skeletal muscle mass the protein is very speech eating tear and help maintain a skeletal muscle mass counsel helps build it like people were working out and began born on base their carbohydrate intake basically half an activity that looks like people going back to that Olympic think there's any need a much higher carbohydrate intake than that found the enemy maybe working adults are more sedentary basing that carbohydrate intake based off of activity levels and their meter coming from fat sources then it's just not all fats or counties are created equal so getting those healthy fat sources coming from the condos on wild caught fishnets and feeds olive oil so those are going to be very healthy fats that are to be beneficial in helping remove production that can help us again feel fully we need to introduce you to our friend Gabriel Lyons she is a physician in New York and actually Manhattan and her whole process she is but I think she's a former former fitness confederal I think that is correct the focus is on muscle centric medicine where she believes that we can maintain muscle mass you improve insulin sensitivity will decrease your fat and so it's all about trying to maintain that as we age in trying to do that because it's one of the things that happens is that we tend to lose muscle as we age and then all the other issue start happening so they're approaching her practice error is now is based around antiaging and using natural means to a college that I believe if I it's been a turn which is usually she must be traveling to me they were going to kiss usually messages us and S gets involved because we can end up having to run the show to supersmart somebody that's credit very similar path like it very similar you had kind of some gut issues and stuff and overcame him and became a fitness competitor so yeah this is super exciting the box de hatbox.com the love my tummy/spoony military.com/mini put in the code did enormous box about her until a discount if you pay for the shipping so one of the things I would do here is we have come up with a name for the J show okay so what would be I will encourage everyone to we all do we include landscaping and that in that name I think it's considering your pedigree and where you come from it may diminish your brand just a little to put out there early to start the conversation you are you are a Louisville Cardinal basketball fan correct very much so so did and what was the other gentleman's name who who had the broken bone in the cabin where Kevin Ware had aware absolute in her last national championship which is taken away from us by the NCAA biggest scandal but that's okay okay but now looking at the FBI investigation now name a name a college team it's not it's probably not it least involved in something to get to that point because they get Kansas in North Carolina and what they're doing is her choosing yeah yeah Dave Dave picked the ones I think that they can make the best example of and the ones they want to protect their to protect them that's that's the lifeblood of it that's that's who they want to protect into somebody else comes skate and through they don't really like that or they're going to make the example out of them if they can get any dirt out of the doing of them mention familiar with this wet and and Jake probably even at pontificate just as much talking on this whole thing a menu so you got to Kansas and bleeding in Kentucky regularly you and Eric need to have a basketball shows what comes the sports talk radio tied in with nutritional food nutrition I think we can also noted by installing the source outfits were basically caught on phone and recorded that they were basically paying players under the table for them to attend certain universities they would be committed somewhere else in energy influenced by the AAU circuit or something else like that to get endorsements simply so they would choose a different school ending in 1/3 party and sometimes even 1/4 party way the school would benefit or another coach to be paid for it so that it looked like it wasn't happening between people have loose lips loose lips sink ships the funny thing I like about that though it's really no different than what were talking about perception of understanding reputable sources: quote sources for journalists are journalistic integrity and's and clinical studies who you want to believe in who you don't and it's either the established blueblood or where the money is and you can take that same parallel to the FDA and the blueblood is a pharmaceutical industry and the the offshoot winning national championship titles like Louisville or almost getting there like Texas Tech that's not necessarily who they want to win so they could find something wrong that's who they're going to sleep the legs on it's no different when you are a natural when your natural solution for serious problems it's really no different at picking your scapegoat to get your message across without damaging those who you feel like kinda perpetuate the industry to the status quo the norm that's across the board whether it's college basketball for the pharmaceutical healthcare disease management industry as we touched on through dropship interesting Violet something to this is good I need to start paying more attention to the whole NCAA basketball seen it directly affect your practice can so we convince Dr. jaybird to have his own show and we have him with the title for you let's start with the title and work our way backwards so any running titles in your brain not even destroyed to be honest with you this that that that Bogdan Batson is wrong for a little bit I being called to task on the name has not exactly a noun caught noun, but usually not a shortage for words and phenomena shortage for for words I want to say that I don't really think that the mundane interventions are good now I have painted anything that you're trying to get some excited about probably Rob, help you today with the G.I. Dr. J help you project. So with the late show only a little there oh with Rachel you've got this huge influence over people we need to get something that you have in this box is to be a clothing line to be a cookbook should you have your own line of supplements or we can do like the revamp we know but bock to the P90 X and beach bodies but if we can get you a whole series of DVD workout video yeah it all going about his dogs that's right you will be there D hat box.com if you'd like to be sure that you are one of the first to get the information on the box it I once again brought were down to a little over a minute the the two hours race by episode nine is almost completed this was great there is so much more to cover and I think both you guys could have your own show completely and cover a lot of issues but the healthy all day with the G.I. Dr. J and lichen I like the there's that cadence the Ron get a lot of those sorts of syllables so apples hits eight it's good hours assess on a long came up for my bikini mom and is definitely a bonus to open the I love appreciate everyone listening and watching today be sure and subscribe and like it get check project on iTunes gets a project 10 channel on YouTube please describe like and share and of course next week I believe are going to have even another contest that it will unveil their buddy else and can does he know about it is like in any other corners I but regardless I will do that check out de hatbox.com to be first in line to learn about dead the box and its benefits for you and your family and don't forget Rich's own.com RI DU CON E.com here with Dr. J in a course Rachel Scheer RA see HDL SCh EER.com for Rachel Scheer nutrition putting words often just like you so much for taking the time to come on we love spreading the news we have the very similar message which ultimately is everyone needs to be healthier let's put health in your hands that's our goal Rachel Dr. JK they'll thank you for having assigned great great way to spend awesome well the very beginning May 2019 yourself in shape will seal next time get your project this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun clear spoony you so Re: did you stuck in a bad bundle great AT&T vibrant DirecTV and get $100 reward card requires 24 month PB 12 month Internet agreement redemption required limited availability may not be in your area see if you qualify.com/bundle AT&T that are subject to change new customers requires a minimum 49 and nine months 12 months after the price hiring secular Internet 25 minutes or higher minimum $40 a month early termination nonreturn taxes fees and restrictions apply, visit.com for full details skylight lounge for me I just say by bundling home and auto progressive firing to the gallery or zero send my condolences this this engine coming situations and so we have that technology
Chris Husong is a market expert in the hemp industry. Accounting for the challenges of public perception, legal challenges, and the burdens of science to prove the claims for hemp benefits have all shaped the climate in which hemp is used today. Born in Texas, Chris moved with his parents a few times throughout the country, studied theology in California, worked in finance and telecom, and after confronting his own biases, discovered that the hemp industry needed legitimatization. Teaching the skeptics, directing messaging for correct use, and ultimately using education as the chosen tool for sales, Chris shared with GCP why the truth behind hemp is the only way to properly build its acceptance.
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well as Rabbi and it won't be today she was incredibly excited we have on today Christian song long term market experience within the hemp industry and he has me setting it is getting an incredible tale of coming from a world of high regulation in telecom and in banking and basically what the hemp industry means to America he's got lots of interaction stories and what it takes to make people understand the importance of hemp and how to accept the message of me what did you can you gather out of that amine Christmas we met at first two years ago yeah so my my initial meeting of Christmas two years ago that's we told the story before will repel your facts right and I walked by the lexical booth and another salesperson other than marketing person Christine Thiel grab me and the thing I remember most about that is Dave Christine and Chris all super tall like this is a really tall child apparently hip will make you taller I know you call me someone will be involved with that company so we could do some real basketball or something you know join the election all basketball team what you honestly if you're in listening to get your project today if you've ever wondered about hey look at him is new to me and I'm not really sure what to think that's that's okay today's episode is really kind incredible as Chris can walk through what it's like to to not just look at Hampton say minutes taboo that's taboo it's okay so many people started there and he's got a lot of experience in helping people understand the benefits behind him and what he can do to change their lives for what I love about this is that he comes from these industries are so regulated and she had to transform that into an industry that is so misunderstood you know when you look at that you look at his bio he only looks on website it says it is skilled in helping people and companies overcome their psychological creative and strategic barriers so that they can achieve the professional personal and creative goals so more than just be the chief marketing officer this guys can be my life coach break through all those barriers yet when Ken and Chris Chris's got a lot of a lot of expense he actually went to theological theology school in not in California but were to talk about that for sure yes that means because just think about the transition nearly everything he's gone through in and of course and he's either great guy can't wait from to join the show hit the bottom of the hour course that they were have KPD KB MD's corner where basically Dr. Brown will die do like he's been doing the last seven shows in address some recent research topics and get tiny previews about what to talk about your two minutes yeah so what we always like to do is try to have a bootable format here so everyone knows what to get it into the show so we know we have a fantastic guest I also want to talk about some recent science it's out there so we have forcefully graduate student that helps us out and she sent a really cool article about ALS or Lou Gehrig's disease the same disease that killed Stephen Hawking right I have a very personal tide of this because when my good friends Dr. Russell Veronica in San Antonio a gastroenterologist that I've trained with and with medical school with his father unfortunately passed away of this so I saw this article which to my knowledge the first one that actually looks at ALS and CBD ties in perfectly because we have Christmas song near chief marketing officer now we can't make disease claims what we can say is look it may help some of these different diseases where there really is no treatment and this is a really cool study that I wanted didn't and it's also even said that because today shows can be so incredible and that the way we learn how to balance real information and what we can legally say as a marketing person and then what the consumer can do with both of these angles to kind of piece these puzzles together much like the episode we had last time in stem cell oh yeah you know this fascinating cool stuff you like why don't more people know about this will Chris has to deal with that every day is like no we can say this we can't say this oh my goodness yes is be fantastic if we did this but we have to do it this way because his background I think is a perfect background coming from the super regulated industry to an area that is so gray that you really need somebody very disciplined like him to sort of take the reins and that's why think election all such unique company yet without question let's get some of the paying the bills out of the way and first off the bat love my tummy.com/spoony what could that be in reference to well I believe you're talking about my baby trying to I am trying to so we talk about how our transit was initially developed for bloating and digestive issues change in bowel habits abdominal discomfort what I am seeing a whole lot of which is really cool really getting into this practice of just coming up in the next few weeks that are professional triathletes we have different bodybuilders and things like that that we have slated to come in one of the things we do realize is that the polyphenols in trying to actually increase blood flow to the muscles so that you can have better performance in just about everything so the polyphenols go to your: where your own colonic archer will break them down into anti-inflammatory and basically antioxidant species so that you can recover from workouts and you can actually increase blood flow so not only is it good for bloating but I encourage everyone to go to love my Tommy.com/spoony put in the spooning code SP 00 NY and get 10% off I just answered you did bring up athlete hotrod teal is the only NSF certified for sport product out there indicated for bloating what is it me so if something is NSF certified for sport specifically it means that 1/3 party the NSF foundation has taken the product and they made certain that everything you mark on your package is truthful date they can be backed up that the claims that you have for your studies are verified and that every single product it makes up the composite award the product itself is clean if you're an athlete you don't have to worry that something you and a girl you're going to take with the NSF certified for sport moniker on it might contaminate a sample or might not do exactly what the ad the labeling says so NSF certified for sport is the same thing that Richard dietitians there with MLB NFL NCAA Olympics Olympics they look for that little mark to make certain that when they recommend a supplement or an over-the-counter supplement or aid to their athletes that it's on there so they know that it's a it's a clean product and John Teal features that endorsement that's also because a lot of companies don't have that we pay to play for that eventually I think that what we should have is a KB MD endorsement over here was just means that we like the product to say absolutely right some quick follow-up from from my last week show one of the coolest things as people began to take in Dr. Wade McCann as if he didn't check out episode seven go back and listen last week if you have any questions about stem cells the future stem cells what it's like to market stem cells in this FDA over regulating environment even know you have truth in your hands go back and listen episode seven but once Wade McKenna finished his his episode all week we received email I even got texts stem cells are good for hair growth stem cells can actually help me with my sciatica that I've been dealing with for a few years it's amazing what people don't know about stem cells and then how many people said I thought whenever I used quote unquote cord blood that I was using stem cells and it turns out that you're just not so anyway last week's feedback to getting feedback from last week I got a ton of feedback I actually got a ton of feedback people were I got a lot of calls people wanted to go I think a lot of people actually call me how to actually get into Dr. Wade McKenna's practice of which I think is also because when we have some real like that they can make it make a difference I mean when I sit there and think about this we are completely under utilizing everybody with analysts on the show so far photo bio modulation stem cells once you get into the science you like wow the site speaks for itself much like CBD yes science much like outrun to the science hold its own yeah and that's a cool sinks within a marketing gimmick it's none of this and that's what Chris is going talk about how do you how to stay above how do you stay above the bar where everybody else is trying to play a marketing game and usually want to get out there and help people that's remarkable whenever you look back and you does mention it photo by modulation with James Carroll and talking about stem cells last week with the Dr. McKennitt the parallels that were running here with the CBD industry or hemp industry and what the FDA basically is doing because the FDA is it it it playing all three of those we got truth and results so true and you just can't cannot see it's crazy but anyhow if and you can always go back and check any of our previous episodes you can always go to iTunes and search for gut check project so be sure to subscribe and share with the print so speaking of share with a friend sought a shout out and we need a little help from our audience here only give a shout out to my friend John Demoss who texted me and said while really liking your show when you do your Instagram post make sure that you have closed caption and Eric and I stared each other like great idea and we are complete newbies to this kind of thing so like how do we do that if you know how to do that please hit us up so that though we can start put in the closed caption or whatever it is on history now do you want even better if you're interested in sharing with us you would like to I guess audition to be our Instagram helper let us now go to KPMG health.com find connect shoot us an email in the form and I will holla back at you I promise we don't know what were doing with Instagram really want to know before next week because we've got the basically an Instagram start coming on the show and so we've got we had a really cool show next week also but today is the one that were focusing on so please iTunes you to YouTube you can also do the gut check project channel you can subscribe and share there as well that we are always here in the Sony studio you can always listen live it spoony.com so smutty.com iTunes get check project YouTube gadget project thank you so much subscribe and share so Dr. Brown let's head into KPMG corner what's on the corner today well let's talk a little bit about some personal stuff start this is kind of interesting I'm a little bit embarrassed about this what you know how when sometimes it's too close to you and you don't know what's going on well my mom unfortunately she fell hurt her shoulder about three months ago and she's been rehabbing Kent and I was just talking to her and I just went oh my gosh did I not send you CBD that are not and she owes no I don't know you know I tried something like that some hemp oil what she tried screws that endure anything else like okay let me send you something so I sent her some bottles with some vitamin D and sufficient oil because I believe in using these fatty acids to really help brain information in such large Dr. couple days ago and she was post be doing three more months of rehab and she goes okay and it's so exciting I don't have to go to rehab anymore my shoulder feels great it actually back to normal this is after you sent everything this is after center about two weeks of using the CBD and so she's Artie on trunk Hill always has been for quite a while but so after sending the CBD and now embarrassed because I'm like oh my gosh my own mom herself and that would be something owed to the patient immediately you just forget when it's too close and then my sister who's actually black belt in aikido and she's always been yourself open to students rose to banged up my mom gave her a bottle and she just texted me this morning said oh my gosh that works so well the key to this Morgan talk about this with Chris that there are differences in different types of CBD and what is out there how you market so my personal story is sorry mama should be given to to three months ago just was too close to it we got so much stuff going on and you know fortunately better late than never she's doing great yeah I know that's a it's of these brothers, interesting so you said in another we can touch on Chris but when James was on James Carroll from outdoor laser he talked about imitators right and then last week with the with Dr. Wade mechanically talked about imitators or people that don't administer stem cells appropriately or may not actually even be utilizing stem cells but saying that they are or putting in chemicals that will destroy destroy those that are not probably not to their own fault I just don't know enough about it because the reality is we talked about this is CBD industry and I'm I tell my patients this I said I would get into a loop of the science would explain a little bit we have this new brochure that explains a little bit and we get into the fact of what your end or cannabinoid system is how it links the nervous system and the immune system put you back in balance that is so simplistic because the reality is were going to see a field of medicine called Endo Kanab analogy and your Genesee specialist called Endo Canavan allergist's share I'm convinced of it sure any of you have a hepatology ST have the endocrinologists there is actually no reason why you would have an Indo Campanella just as we begin to learn more that CBD absolutely totally agree right it's about you anything going on in the personal life personal life at the boys I mean honestly the boys are doing great. During off-season basketball who ended up I know that seems like add the theme but that's that's really what they're into but I did go shoot with my youngest earlier this week and I learned that dad dad is the worst basketball player in the household now Matt can drain from all points of the court I'm just I'm no match anymore there faster than I am and now that he's basically 6 foot tall and 15 and gauges about 61 now in 1730 I just not much I can do with with either one of them so very much dominate brain I headed down to Kaleo FX this week though oh that's right you want one of my favorite conferences to be great conference it's a chemist think that immediate which is so busy just to go this week will unfortunately I have to go to Newark New Jersey and film a national commercial for archer until Roger entails time to take out her until the next level were to be doing some national commercial so I would love it really affects would love to be helping out at the election all booth pate BMD CBD booth trash and talk about trying to learn the on the entourage effect without an CBD but I don't fly up to New York in the true commercial which I'm a little bit nervous about the Wilson estate bowing on the head Keith Michelle Noris tune into your commercial as soon as it airs big shot today and they are the one to put on file with X they do a great job if you never been that appealing effects in Austin Texas it is what's your time you going to be introduced to a bunch of different things that could probably change her health and that's how we found CBD out and say I'm very partial to pill effects last year I give a talk and one over really well talked a lot of people had to be able to get their books it was really exciting you just it just fun to see a like-minded community I did the mojo 50 show this morning we're talking about sugar and the paler community does not really eat M&Ms those guys do M&M tasting Delphi lot M&Ms of failure effect listen if you have M&Ms you to balance it out with much until Fisher 100% totally so yeah you just have a great time hello effects I will make you feel better about you not been know to beat your sons because the only person that can warm Lucas up is my daughter Carla because both my wife and I are incapable of even even hit the ball back against those guys don't know probably know why it's super humiliating I I feel memo Mike is it embarrassing that the youngest person in the family is the only person I can warm Osama before matches and vice versa they want each other up it's really cool that's get down so I'd have any hits on the on the corner before Chris joins us will I do want to bring up one thing here I will bring up an article I was try to bring up one article to talk about just now woman talk about marketing Christmas songs it's about marketing a lot of people look at the big deal I want to tell everyone about this and so on I really like to look at disease specific states And the article that we can achieve that in the beginning here is an article related to the meta-analysis was published in the Journal of neurochemistry here this year just couple months ago and what it looked at is it did a meta-analysis which is a compilation of studies usually meta-analysis I have in the scientific literature are considered to be more robust picture taking a lot of studies putting them together and this is looking at ALS known as anti-atrophic lateral sclerosis Lou Gehrig's disease is a devastating disease and as I had mentioned earlier it actually took the life of my good friend Dr. Russ of Ron Ike whose guesser Alderson San Antonio and we actually saw his dad his father correct we actually saw this progressive disease and that's the deal about ALS eight what it does is if you're unaware of it I find it to be one of the most devastating diseases out there there's a book called Tuesdays with Maury that I read back many years ago they commit a movie about it also censures about the progress the progression of ALS and somebody that where there is a caregiver helping them out and you get a feeling about how it just slowly chips away and what it does this damages the nerves that control muscles so over time all of your muscles weaken to the point where they cannot contract eventually hitting the diaphragm so you can't read you lose the ability to speak because you can't control your tongue you lose the ability fine motor movement changes first because the small muscles go and you can't button things and it is just a debilitating but you keep your mind eventually you have some mind changes and they don't really understand why it is they believe there's a small genetic component but really what it is it's an excitatory issue with the nerves releasing too many of certain chemicals that eventually do not allow the do not allow the muscle to contract on the words and try to sting like muscle doesn't work so this was quite a while ago I've been in practice for 17 years Russ and I with both med school and fellowship together it was during residency so were talking 27 years ago 25 years ago I do know anything about CBD fat I know they must be in touch two years ago so this study came out red actually showed that they looked at mice and they looked at their ability to travel distance they looked at their grip strength that she put them through some sort of little American ninja course where they had them hang upside down on the net so like a Jacob's ladder, it was it was it was really it was fascinating that I made a run a wheel what they did is they they actually looked at those that had that were given CBD and those that were the control group and what they showed across the board in this meta-analysis is that those mice I'm sorry let me preface that the mice were genetically predisposed to have ALS so they all had a lot okay okay and what they did is that they showed that the mice that were on CBD could actually run further the mice could cling long-running that they actually increase the grip strength running real activity and they had improved survival and they did not have weight loss when they looked at all the studies something stood out to me that was very interesting they were all given CBD one particular study that they look that used a Madrigal inhibitor now what Maggio is is that's the enzyme that breaks down to AG one of your Dodgers and of cannabinoids in one of these days were to get into the deep science about the inner cannabinoid system gets all complex that's a drug it's in study and it's called KM L 29 so it's fascinating that the FDA's over here try to regulate right and in the background you've got drug companies try to develop drugs to manipulate the system if they can figure out that's awesome but is really interesting because the macro inhibitor was not as good as the traditional CBD and so what they found is that CD1 and CB to agonists in other words CBD significantly delayed the decline of motor function when compared to the control group and they showed a consistent 12 to 25 days longer of normal motor function in the mouse world what you doing is really improving that so right now there's no treatment for this they've got a couple drugs available one called real you tech and one called red Dick Reddick Have Not Even Sure That That Was around When Ross's Dad Was Sick They Said That It Could Potentially Slow down the Progression by a Month or Two While the Superexpensive Month or Two That's It I Member at the Time When We Went outside and Rushes Flying All over the Country Thing Is That Everywhere There Were Trying Everything They're Looking at Using Creatine and Different Things like That so Here We Have This Deal Where We've Got Eight Now You Can't Just Translate Mouse Models to Humans But It's Really One of the First Step in Trying to Figure Some Stuff out My Deal Is That We Know That CBD Helps in Many Different Ways and I'm Not Saying That This Is a Disease Claim I'm Not Saying That This Is Functioning and Will Help but It Certainly Can't Hurt and Might Help Right so When You Have a Very Specific Disease Group like ALS to Desperate Group with No Significant Treatment I Think It's Fascinating That These Guys Went to the Trouble of Putting Together This Mouse Data to Actually Try and Figure This out so Here We Have Grip Strength Upside down Running All of It Which Means That There Is Some Potential That This Could Actually Help This Very Devastating Disease and Is Very Small Group of People Because It's Rare but When It Does Affect You It Affects Everybody It May Affect One Person so the Number the Thing We'll Talk about Is When We Say Disease Oh This Is the Incidence of This Disease This Is the Prevalence of This Disease As Somebody Who Lost My Dad at a Young Age It Affects More Than Just the Person That Dies Share the Prevalence or the Incidence of the Disease Affects Everyone Around Them Right so I Think That If We Can Help Those People with ALS If You Know Anybody with ALS or Lou Gehrig's Disease This Is Something That May Be Showmen We Can Certainly Forward This Article to Anybody That Would like to so Include Any of the Studies That Utilize a Mouse AMI All All of the Drugs They Began and and and Started There to Try to Find out If This Is a Workable Model and Unfortunately with Today's Highly Regulated Environment He Can't Just Keep Going Forward but Were Trying to Help People Connect the Dots This That CBD Is Safe to Take and You Shouldn't Have Any Serious Side Effects Certainly by Consuming CBD It Just so Happens That in This Mouse Model We Saw These Improvements Draw from the Conclusions What You Will But This Is What I've Seen and I Mean I Think That Were Hinting In the in the Correct Direction I Just Think That It's You Know This Is Work Were Offering Hope Church When Scientists like This Do This You Just Offer Little Bit of Hope And It Is a Devastating Disease and We Just Want to See People and Just Offer Them Something an Alternative Right And If They Can Even If They Feel a Bit Better Well We Got 20 Seconds Left Here in Just a Moment We Are Going to Be Joined by Chris Who Song the Vice President of Marketing Communications Analytics and off a Hemp Industry Marketing Expert Is Going to Be Incredibly Silly Very Exciting and Super Excited Let's Do the Seal Here in about Two Minutes Dr. Kim Brown Here a Host of Check Project with Lycos Eric Rieger Eric Regency and Mojo Guys over There and Overhears Really Talk about Our 20 over Bloating I've Seen in My Practice That I'm Trying to Is a Whole Lot More Than Just a Floating Product Yes It Does a Whole Lot More Than Just Exploding Because of the Polyphenols That You Find Keen on Trying to Get Your Exactly Right the Polyphenols Are Those Molecules That We Find in the Mediterranean Diet It Makes Vegetables and Fruit Very Colorful What Are Some of the Things These Polyphenols Do Eric These Polyphenols Can Actually Stop and Nation Help You Have More Energy Thinking Have You Antiaging and Polyphenols Are Great Athletes It Sounds like It's Your Health: More People Than Just Loading Tell Me How It Is Taking out Front If You Want to Go so 2002 Capsules Three Times A Day Facing Me with You Aren't Bloated and Just Want to Polyphenol Intake Everyday Three Chances of a War for You to Love My Tummy.com/Are You Tired of High Cable TV Rates Sign up for Dish Today and Get a $500 Bonus Offer While Supplies Last Loss Locking Your Price for Two Years Guaranteed Call American – Your Dish Authorized Retailer Now 800-570-6630 800-570-6630 – 800-570-6630 Authors Required Critical Negation 24 Month Commitment Early Termination Fee Any Automakers Friction Supply Call for It Looks like You're Losing I Am I Losing Weight I Am Losing My Lost about 10 Pounds How Are You Doing It Funny Name but I Done It with Review Zone RAD Use Zone.com and the Stuff Works It's Unique It and All That the Molecule Bissonnette Found in That I Can Tell You Is It It so It Makes You Feel Full and He Keeps Your Mind Off of Wanting to Overeat and Also Boost Your Metabolism If You're Done and More Guy Try It Today It's Gonna Work for You like His Work for Brad and Countless Other People Read You Zone.com Are IDUs Zone.com Okay Welcome Back to the Second Half Hour Episode Eight of the Gut Check Project I Married Grigor Joined by Your Host Dr. Kent Brown and Now We Have the Vice President of Marketing Communications at Alexa and All Mr. Chrissy Song Chris Welcome to the Show Thanks for Having Me Absolutely Absolutely Better Radio Voice Than You and I Both Well Yeah Well You Guys Have a Better Face for One of the First Things He Chris Asked Where He Sat down and Said Do You Guys Do One Headphone or Two and Then Can Analogize That We Do We Do to Because We Didn't Know How to Do That so Anyhow I Just a Quick Reset Thank You for Joining the Show Thank You Again for Having Me Actually Catch a Project Is Brought to You by Arch on Teal As Well As KB MD CBD You Can findkbmdcbd@kbmdhealth.com and it just so happens that Chris may happen to know a little bit about KB MD CBD As Well Please Think Our Dialects and the Power Power by Licks and All so Chris You We Are Now in Dallas That's Where Our Studio Is Siam in Dallas Here with You Guys Thanks for Having Me I Grew up in Plano Just down the Road Just I Know That That's Also That's Where I Live Right Now Sam Right on Teakwood Okay All Right in the Middle Was Back When There Was Still Some Farmland in That Region Roads That Were Definitely Not Paved Back That Well While You Have Made Your Journey All the Way to Being a Market Expert but It Was You Got Zero Stress Remember I Was Told about Russ and His Dad yet Will He's Just Call Me Right Here Is Try to Call Him to Let Me Describe a Little Bit about about His Experience Home on Such a Crazy Timing to Rent a Van Fantastic What Will Look at That Set up Well in the Meantime While Were Getting the Call Set up Which This Be Our First Time We've Ever Had Live Taller All for You Chris That's Awesome Though Our Weight Much to Say Go Wildcats for Plano West Guy While Nice Nice Sticky Big Absolutely so from Plano You Are You Hello When You Plan to Graduate High School There No so I Was Born in the Fort Stockton Texas Home Right Now Where Judge Judge Roy Bean the Hanging Judge a Hanging Judge Meant to Write Also the Largest Groundhog Population in Texas That at the Time Did I Know That I Seconds Probably Pretty Pretty Have Been Doing down There but No I Moved to All over Texas with My Dad Is an Engineer for General Electric Okay so We Were All over the Place and Then Moved to California Right and I Graduated College out There and Jumped around All Sorts of Places since Then Is Your Degree in Theology Theology Yeah That's Right This Is Great for What I'm Doing Preaching about Hemp and CBD What May Think That I in All Honesty When You Find That There Is Actually Quite a Bit of Similarity and There's Going to Be A Lot of Congruent Messaging Well There There Is A Lot Of Congruent Messaging and and We Can Get Super Deep on It If You'd like but Overall Community, Theology or CVD Will Get the Loan Both of Them Get Real Deep on Both but That Because I Think Are Highly Connected I Think One of Them I Don't Know How Far You Want to Get into This Right Now but CBD Itself I Think It's Is One of the Main Things in the Unit Can Have Annoyed Systems and Allows All That Better Empathy Sure Which Is What Is Causing so Much Disregard and Disconnection in Our Society Right Now Right and If We Can All Take a Significant Amount of Quality CB and Improve Our Ability For Our Brain to Connect with People and and Not Have Social Anxiety And Connect to People Then Were Going to Actually Build Improve Our Culture and and Not Not Have All These Great Divides so I Would Assume That Probably Whenever You Are Studying Theology That That May Not Have Been Your Attitude Towards CBD or Hemp Products or That Was Even on Your Radar Though My Gosh Cannabis in CBD and Hemp Was Bad Sure You Know the Devils We Write Back Then and That It's Definitely Not Something That I Supported I Told My Kids Said No Don't Do Dumb Stuff Listen to Dad and Don't Do Drugs and Cannabis Was Definitely One of Those Things and I Had to Change My Tune Much Later in Life and My Mom Actually Group Cannabis and Marijuana While She Was Raising Us in Texas and Oklahoma and Back What Was Illegal She Was like One of the Original Member That Was – She Is Original OGE That so and You Know I I Being the Rebellious Teenager Decide I'm to Put Our Three-Piece Suit and Go Learn Religion and You Look down from My Port Perch on People and Obviously I Had to Humble Myself and Admit Mom Was Right the Whole Time That Is so Fascinating I Don't Want to Break the Story Whatsoever but I Think We Have Our First Because This Is Going All Dr. Russell Running San Antonio He Is Patched in And Russ Can Hear Us Morning Man This Is Also My Was That Obvious He Heard the Show This Morning Was Talk about You and Your Dad I Appreciate That That Means A Lot It Does so Russ Whenever You Found out That Your Dad Had ALS When When You Look at the Options That Were on the Table What and in You Being Physician What Did You Think of the Landscape and What Did You Think the Options Would Be For Him and Then Now Looking Back to What What Cans Talking about in Terms of CBD and ALS What I Mean I Lost My Dad You've Lost Your Dad Can Lost His Dad and You Know It's It's No Fun for Anyone Any Always Wish That You Had the Experiences of Technology Later What What Do You Wish You Could Take Back to in Time from What We Learn Now She Mentioned That My Dad Started Get Sick with ALS Back When Can Our Medical School Diseases Just Initiated This Really Is and They're Just Just Seated Man Who Was Pillar of Strength and It Just Wait, Wait Enough and Where They Couldn't Hold a Hammer He Could Climb a Ladder and the Most Devastating Part of That for Us Was When He Studied the Single Ball Ballparks in Ankeny and Carry on a Conversation and Eat Well Anymore Back Then There Was Nothing for Writers One of Those Diseases like Pancreatic Cancer You Got It Sorry I Just Not Then We Can Do and Then I Moved down Here to San Antonio Started Launching Residency and Fellowship and Hooked up with Carding Jackson Was a Neurologist down Here Amazing Woman Who Runs a Big ALS Clinic Here in South Texas and I Started Flying My Dad down Twice a Year and She'd See Him in an Even In Her Clinic It Was the Experimental Things of This Kind of False Hope Was Some Anti-Inflammatories There Wasn't Anything That Worked and There Are Days When It Looked like It May Be a Little Stronger and Days When He Wouldn't Now 15 Years Looking Back You Know That He's Been Gone There's Been so Much Advancement in so Many of These Neurologic Diseases and It's These Natural Types of Things That Seem to Keep Coming up As Potential Cures for This and Have Even Had an Opportunity to Have Him Try Something like This Back Then I Did My Right Arm for Combat and I Would Believe That You Don't Get Back That's I Think When You Talk about Suitable Were What Is Referring to Is the Ability to Swallow the Ability to Form Wet so I Remember When Your Dad Would Come Visit and We Would All Go to Your We Would Gather His Residence Would Go to the Pool And She Would Mumble Words That Only a Wife of 30 Years Could Understand and She Would Translate so He Was Still Completely with It Couldn't Communicate but That Kinda Shows Also the Bond That Husband and Wife Can Have Watching Your Mom Be Able to Understand What Your Dad Was Trying to Say Was Very Touching to All of Us In Talking with Him and That's the Part He Hated the Most You Got Your French Don't You Go out Yes and Cocktails Have a Dinner You Care Phone Conversation When You're like That Friends Don't Want to Hang out with You Anymore Because It's Hard and Embarrassing to to Say I Don't Know What You're Saying so There Were Times When My Dad Loved to Drink Beer I like to Drink Beer I Were Small-Town Nebraska I Would Grow up up There so When He Got to That Point in His Disease And He We Had the Decision to Finally A Peg Tube Feeding Put Two But into His Stomach to Swallow Much Anymore When You Come down Here and I Cannot Would Sit around and We Drink Beer and Dad Would Set Some up in Achieving Stringent Squared Together and It Was Awesome and and One of the Greatest Things I Remember Doing with My Dad Back and When He Got to Where He Couldn't Talk Was I Flew up and Picked Him up and Took Him up to Minnesota Went Fishing and Camping for Weekend We Sat around the Campfire We Just Drank until I Can Really Talk Either Loved It but That's What That Disease Did Nothing We Tried Were I Think That What Were Seeing Now with This Is That We Can Talk on the Mode of How Potentially the End of Cannabinoid System Works in These Neurotransmitters No Rust We Have Christmas Song on the Show Today Is the Marketing Director of Licks and All and He Was Just Tell yet He Was Talking about How His Mom Actually Was The Original OG Is Raising Her She Was Growing Marijuana and He Went to Theology School, Rebelled The Opposite Way like If You Are a Pastor You Really Grow Weed If You're Growing We Bellied Theology School You Find out You Know What You Go Back to the Things Parents. It Worked and It Made Sense Mom Was Right I Long Yeah Yeah I Mean I Joke That All the Time. I Grew up My Dad Was Yellow Country Music and Bud Light Not Solid to Rock 'n' Roll and Drink Out Of Date Now 50 and I Listen to Country Music Drink Bud Light Back Here at That Time That Often Did That Because You Find Those Things Were We Did Know Hey Rossiter – Neurology Practice Are You Incorporating Type of Natural Alternative Anything like That Big and Real High Population of People That Are Educated on the Younger Patient Population That I Have an Initial Internet Savvy and A Lot Of Them Come to Me Already Knowing A Lot about These Things and Having Read A Lot about These Things It's All out There When You Look Which Having Awesome so I Do I Have Acrobatic Doctors That I Work with I Have A Lot Of Patients on CD Oils Not Just for Things like This That Were Talking about but My Miles to Christ in Crohn's Patients with Chronic Nausea Patients My Chronic Pain Patients like Everything It Works for Some and It Does Percent Doesn't. Well I Want to See How It Was with What You Can Find Is That and What I Found Is That Not All CBD Is Created Equal And so with Some Things and so We Have Chris on Right Here and That I I'm Very I Think I Have a Similar Mantra Have A Lot Of Patience to Come into Being There Already Though I'd Artie Tried to Be like My Mom Tried Hemp Oil Which Probably Was Hemp Seed Oil Now That I Think about It in the Will and so It's like All Things You Know Not All Seabees Created Equal That's Working to Get into Today for the Rest of the Show Talk about This How Do You Market That How You Get the Word out That Just Because You Tried This Blanket Term CBD You Know You Gotta Really Make Sure That They Got a Certificate of Analysis and All That so I Want to Do If You Had Patients and It Didn't Work on Listing the Rest of the Show Because It May Be That the Power Dialects All Brand Is What You Really Need That's Exactly What We Need to Hear Some I'm Glad You Get Thanks for Involving Me and Bring Back Member My Dad and Mandalay Castle Being Vulnerable and Talking about That I Think It's Important for You Know I'm the Same Way Love Talk about My Dad It's Been You Many Years Now 30 Years since He Died so I'm Lucky Enough Still Have My Dad but My Fondest Memories Are Him Drinking Coors Light on the Boat Name for Court like Nebraska State Aire's Stepdaughter Russ I Was Met Together and That Means That We We with Some Real Lean Years Were We Were Broke Ass Med Student and Your Dad Will Visit And We Would Purposely Go to Bars with a Wood Offers like Specials like in This Bar It Will and You Don't Medical Whatever I'm Agreed As I Am Still a Bud Light like You Have but You Know Such Such Beers like 50% Was like I Was like Yeah Yeah Johnny Jerilyn $4.55 Dollars to Run I Got My Recall and in This Is Awesome That Your First Call Every Now and Certainly I Deftly Appreciated I Appreciate You Guys and Will Keep with the Man Thanks for All You Do Appreciate It I See Russ Well Chris to Talk about Beer Similar Talk about Boys You Know What I'll Say This I Remember Listening to a Podcast Were One of the Reasons Why Beer May Be so Popular Is Because the Hops and Actually Have a End of – You Have a Cannabinoid -like Molecule so My Understanding Is That That Was All Made up All Really Got Some Some Marketing Guy Used His Powers for Evil Instead of Good and That the Two Companies That Are And It Kinda Leaves What You're Talking about Not All Seabees Made Same Two Companies That Were behind Those Actually Had to Admit That There Was Those Studies Were Completely Phone No Kidding Yeah That Is Fascinating I Was Feeling and Have Chris Consider Just Burst Bubble to Be Dropping Some Truth Bombs Now That's Awesome What We Were Just Wrapping up so You To Get into the Hemp Industry Because Krista Talked about His Trek from from Fort Stockton to Plano out to out to California and Then You Spend a Little Time in Germany Germany Where I Did Learn A Lot about Beer Dealer Lot Is Three and Half Years on the High School There and Going to Prom and Castles and All Sorts of Fun Stuff That's a Little Different Doing for like We Did Were in Plano Where I Would've Would've Done It Sure Sure so Then after School You Then Get into Some Regulatory I Figured out This Beeper and Pager and Wireless Things Can Be a Big Deal so I Started Selling Cell Phones and Pagers and You Know Five Dollar Minute Type Technology in and Got into the Technology World and Got into When Sprint Was in One Market You Can Only Use Her Cell Phone in Fresno Okay and Then the Only Been Growing since Then Moved from There into the Finance World and Helped with A Lot Of Regulatory World and There and Open Market under A Lot Of Rules and Regulations and While I Was There I Met a Guy Who Is Doing Documentary on Campus and He Was Put Together All These Different Case Studies and All These Different Videos and Clips of These People That Have Been Healed by Campus and at That Time I Was like No Bunch of Stoners and You Just Want You with the with the Theology Background You Carry a Bias with These Going into These Other Careers Are More Open-Minded at This Point What Based on My Initial Upbringing by My Mom Who Is Very Open Minded I Was I Was Always Questioning Authority and Questioning Things and through That Entire Process Even Going through Theology School I Was Questioning Everything around Me You Know the Minute That and Again I Don't Know How Deep You Want to Get into Religion Here but the Minute That I Heard about Their Profit Care and Oh How They the Canonization of All of the Books and How They Got into the Bible I Started to Start Questioning A Lot More and You Know They Trying Teach You That the Bible Is 100% the Word of God and Then You Decide to Figure out That Is about 15 White Guys in a Room to Decide Which Books Are in the Bible and You Only but Little Doubt in Your Head Sure I Don't I Don't Know That 15 Guys Can Agree about Anything and Deftly When Trust Something like That That's Guiding so Many People's Lives Divided 15 Guys in Room so It's It's Definitely No Been Something I'm Always Open-Minded and Looking at Things and Questioning Things I'm Click to Decide and Slow to Change My Mind so I See Something That's Right and Usually Jump Right in and Stick with It May Be Too Long and Then Dismantled That up but I Learned My Lesson Sooner or Later Click to Decide Slow to Change My Mind That Is a That Is a Great Line This It's like You Make a Decision but You Don't Have To Make the Right Decision to Make Your Decision Right That A Lot Of Times I Mean We've Already It's That Little Cliché but Sure Enough Perfect Is Sometimes the Enemy of Good Brian and I like to Move Fast and Make the Decisions What I What I Believe in My Gut I Think That If More People Moved That Way Things to Get Done A Lot Faster in Love Things I Think Doubt Self-Doubt Challenges A Lot Of Us and from a Marketer And I like to Empower People to Make the Right Decisions and Given the Right Information That I Learned Early on in My Sales Careers That When People Tell You Know It's It's Primarily Because They Don't Have Enough Information to Say Yes the More Information We Can Give Them the More Education We Can Give Them Then They Can Move Forward So It's Just That Self-Doubt That Little Gut Thing That We Need to Move Them on Let Me Answer Question Measured Market Are One of the Things That I Have Run into with My Colleagues to Coworkers and Things Is That When Somebody Is so Entrenched in Their Belief They Get This Cognitive Dissonance Where It's Almost like There Is a Logical From Then on Transits and Religion Parallels That Tremendously If There's Anything That Has Cognitive Dissonance Is When Somebody Has the Religion and You like Look Just Saying That This Is like You Said It's 15 White Dudes in a Room You Know Maybe It's Not Everything I You Know There's A Lot Of Things I Grew up Catholic so I'm I'm I'm a Recovering Catholic and We Do Know There's There's A Lot Of Things I Look Back on Them like Ha Knows A Lot Of Things Were Really Good about It Right Discipline You Know Learning Empathy Learning These Different Things Learning to Be Held Accountable for What You Do There's Higher Good Buyer Doing All This of the Stall That There's Times That I Took Away from Theology and Take Away from Christianity and Many of the Religions That I've Studied but Absolutely One of the Things That Jesus Did Many Other of the of the Profits They Questioned Authority May Question Things and so It's Really Important That We Teach Our Kids Only Teach People to Question You Know Why Is CBD Bad by Wise Cannabis Bad You Know That Doesn't Make Any Sense and You Know If You Really Want to Get Deep on Some of the the Conspiracy Theories of How This All Got Legally Illegal We Could Get down That Road to Because It Is Crazy Will It Tell You What First of All Is Not All Right Thought Would Be Going off Right into A Lot Of Parallels That with This so What I Want to Ask You Is a Marketer How Do You Was a Marketer Overcome This Cognitive Dissonance so Primarily It's Education Right What What Sit in Front of Me and What Changed My Mind Is Facts I When You Look at Some Kid Or Some Mom or Some Dad That His Life Has Been Changed Because They're Taking CBD on a Regular Basis They Went from Not Being Able to Talk To Being Able to Talk No They Went from 300 Seizures a Day Two No Seizures but Those Type of Things You Can't Deny Right Something Is Working so If You're Able Then to Dig into Why Is That Not like Rafael Mitchell and Started Right He Went to Discover the Why We Get High Right Many Found in a Can-Am Annoyed System and Then He's Figured out There's More Than One Cabinet to New There's A Lot Of People Don't Know Who That Is Identical I've Read A Lot about Him Please Explain Who He Is Sort of the Godfather Godfather in the Can-Am Annoyed System and He's the One That in an Israel Went to Go Does Study Why THC Affects People And He Threw His Studies Found the Indo Cannabinoid System and the CD1 and CB to Receptors and Why We Get High and Started Been Digging into the Plant In Finding That There's Many More Cannabinoids and Found CB Juan and CBN and CBG and All These Things and He's Really the One That It Brought This to the Forefront for Everyone and Only Because Return for Why People Get Hot and Move Forward from There A True Scientist and Also Somebody Who Discovered Something That I Did Learn about Med School No Is 9% of Medical Schools Now Teach about That Night I'm Surprised It's Not Really I Think That's Higher Than What I Would've Said I Would've Said 0% It Said to Me It Still Shocking That Is That Low That It's Ever I Mean I Understand Coming from Medical Field Where You Were Taught about It so That Makes Sense Right but Even 9% of Sure All the Doctors out There How Much Impact Just This One Camp Mind Is Made Can You Imagine If 20% of Our Doctors Knew about How This Mean the Doctors That That I Talk to Every Day You Know They Run the Gamut Summerlike Yes All Day In Summer like Crazy I Lose My License Right and That's the Education Back to What Your Talk about How You Change the Minds What a Link Small Has Done and Work with People like You Is to Make Sure That Those Influencers of the Health and Wellness World Those Health Professionals out There Those Doctors Are Equipped with Education Because There to Make the Biggest Impact You Know I Can Go Sell a Bunch of This Online and All Search Ads up There and Click Send It There but What We've Decided to Is Focused Primarily on Helping Health Professionals to Learn about Our Product Because There Can Make Big Impact in the Community so That I Think That That Is All I'm Sorry about That I Think That's Paul Paul W Are Found When Joy Was Here She Was Describing Your You Paul Gabe Your Etiology Is Not so Much Just to Move Product It's to Educate the World so That This All Become Something Bigger Hundred Percent Hundred Percent Our Founder Paulino Is Pre-Much a Citizen of the World Now He Considers Himself One of Those Guys That That Doesn't Belong Any One Country That Belongs to the All of the World and He's Trying to Make Big Changes CDs Just One of Them You Know He's Been a Hen Pioneer since the 90s Right and Made the Very First Hemp Bar Because It Had so Many Omega-3's and Omega Sixes and Nobody Was Getting Those Essential Fats Right Now You Have To Get Them from Meat Is What They Were Trying so Need to Know You Can Get It from the Plants and You Can Start Getting Those Things Because You Could Lit so Many People Implant Diets Were Deficient And There Is No Reason Because We Had Hemp Constantly When I Met You and Chrissy Feel They Will Affect Two Years Ago I Knew Nothing Was in Two or Three Working up on the Third One Now Is at Three Bad Is Probably through Your Probably Right Because I Give a Lecture Last Year Yes Is Your Go to the Third Value about so What Happened to Me Was I Just Walked by the Booth and I Was Just That Christie Just Said You Discredited Love You Bunches That Happens When Everyone Christie Just Brought Everybody and She Such a Great Evangelist Shoot She Has but It Was Literally It's like I Don't Know What You're Talking about What I Did Your Enthusiasm Send a Case to My Office Area and I Gave Away the Whole Case You Can Take Any Blog I Talk about I Did Well but One Bottle and What I Found Is That I Guess Maybe Got to Get to 24 I Think I Had 22 People Come Back after the Bottle Run out the Big Bottle of 3600 It's I Want More Know It Okay Run Something And I Gave It to I Didn't of Insiders Ate the Cost and Elect Someone to See Unbiased Just Predicate Event Just Tell Me What You Think and a True Scientist but True yet so I Had like 22 of 24 People Come Back to What Okay Were on to Something Now I Need to Start Teaching Myself Now I Need to Really Start Educating Myself And It All Starts with That Starts with Just the Domino Effect And That's What's That's What I'm Doing Right Now Working to Be Talking A Lot about the Actual Science of Stuff and Disease States That I'm Helping Not Claiming But Supporting Supporting Exactly Just so You We Kind of Hit A Lot Of Different Topics Here but Said Some Things That We Can Carry over into the Next Hour That I Think the Listeners Are Really Liking at Your Approach Chris Which Is Basically You Said You'd You Should Become Double Challenging Dogma You and You Really Should If You're Going to Find Something That Doesn't Just Mean Looking at Hemp and Saying I Think It's Taboo but I Need to Find out More about It to See If I Can Change My Mind There's Also Incidents We May Say Hemp Is Everything but I Need to Make Sure That It's Everything That Everybody Says That It Is Absolutely and Then Then We Also Need to Talk about the Environment That Allows Us to Foster This Kind Growth Because There's a Reason If I Remember the Story Correctly That the Discoveries Made in Israel It Wasn't I Wasn't Able Only One Able to Have Those Kinds of Experiments Here to Find Indo Cannabinoid System in a Stateside Because Our Government Prevented That from Happening so the Fact There Were 9% of Med Schools It's Surprising That It's Grown That Much of the Same Time It Should Be Hundred Percent so We Can Get into Some Really Deep Topics in Terms of How Do We Carry This Message Forward How Do We Make It Available to More People How We Present the Facts of the People Know That You're Not Selling Them Snake Oil That You're Not Telling That You Know It It Fixes Broken Bones and Lowers Your Gas Bill Because It Doesn't Do Those Things Really Get Bored but Actually I Think Fixing Broken Bones Lowering Gas-Filled FDA and FTC Has No Problem with Those Claims but It Is That You and I Could Probably Make a Correlation to the Lower Gospel If I Wanted Regulator System Brings a Homeostasis You Don't Need to Turn up the Heater Comes to the Practical Application of a CBD Is Really Where Your Expertise Is Because You've Made This Journey Right You Made This Journey of I Don't Believe in It to This Is Incredible I Gotta Spread This News in the Right Way to Do so Would You Are Much More Well-Rounded Than I Was Anticipating This Is Really Cool You Got One of the Things You Get a Very Calm Nature but I Would Have This Nervous Energy about My Gosh I'm Sitting on This Just Amazing Thing Wire but As Everybody Get It But You Seem Very Meth Methodical about It I Should Say Well I Have I Do Have What Is Known As Very Laid-Back Nature People Been Thinking I Was High My Whole Life When I Want to Buy Weed from Me When I Didn't Have It so It's Just in My Nature but Absolutely I'm Very Thoughtful about How We Communicate This Because It's Important You Know There Is A Lot Of Weight To What Were Doing This Is a You Know Even Bigger Than the Internet Boom in the 90s and Skin to Change A Lot Of Things Now If You Think about It CBD And Him Could Replace the Entire Johnson & Johnson Catalog So That Hits on Something That We Can Deftly Take the Next Hour to Think That That the Listeners Have Got to Email about It Already That Specifically Want to Know How Can We Put Facts and Research behind Were Going to Do in the Next Hour We Can Deftly Talk about What It Is That a Medical Practitioner Can Do What It Is That a Consumer Can Do What Is in Allied Health Professional Can Do so They Can Better Spread The Message to Allow People That Are Suffering or Just Sibley Want to Improve Their Quality of Life and Him and Him Products to To Their Rather Daily Routine to See If They Can Basically Get a Better Balance so Homeostasis Homeostasis Act about Getting Back in Balance Well That Is Going to Wrap up This First Half-Hour with Chris He Saw Will Be Back Here about Four and Half Minutes Thank You Seems to This Is the Only 24 Hour Take Anywhere Platforms Dedicated to Food and Fun Clear Spoony If Our Townhall.com, or VP Biden 20th Democrat to Announce His Candidacy for the Parties Residential Nominating Widens One of the Most Recognizable Names in Politics the Most Experienced Candidate in This Field and at 76 Seats Second Oldest Face Questions about Whether His Age and More Moderate Record Are Out Of Touch with the Democratic Party Featuring the Younger and More Liberal Contenders Correspondence Agar Magali American University Political Science Professor James Thurber Says If He Hopes to Win Biden Will Have To Find a Way to Connect with Younger Voters He's Really Running against His Own Record to a Certain Age and He Has To Persuade a New Generation That He's Got the Right Ideas Help America and Them President from Writing on Twitter This Morning Welcome to the Race Sleepy Joe Russian Pres. Putin Says She'll Be Briefing Both Beijing and Washington on His Summit with North Korean Leader Kim Jong June Says Cam Expresses a Willingness to Give up His Nuclear Weapons If He Can Secure an Ironclad Security Guarantee First A Woman and Her Two Young Children Died on the Family Car Was Caught up in Floodwaters Rolling Plains of West Texas about 75 Miles Southwest of Fort Worth Storm Prediction Center Meteorologist Matt Mosher Says One of 21 to 2 Inches of Rain Is Falling in West Texas Although Some Areas Did See a Bit More Not That Normal Rainfall Amount over It Adds up over over Dating Week so It's Been a Pretty Wet Winter In That Area and so That's What Caused The Flooding Issues to Homes in the City Hall Office of Baltimore Mayor Catherine Pugh Been Rated by FBI and IRS Agents No Word on Exactly What They're Looking for Stocks Are Mixed on Wall Street This Morning Right Now the Dow down Sharply It's off 203 Points on the NASDAQ Is up 38 Points One of the stories@townhall.com Fast-Track Student Loans Can Get Your Student Loans Out Of the Vault Stop Any Wage Garnishments Stop Collection Calls and Stop Seizure of Your Tax Refund Give Yourself a Break to Stop the Stress and Get Your Student Loan Payments down to As Little As $25 a Month Based on What You Can Afford to Pay 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 Use the Expenses Blue or Yellow Pills to Charge Your Sex Life Are You Thinking about What We Can Promise You the Same Results from 3 PM If You Paying $20 a Pair for the Other Parents You're Getting Taken to the Cleaners Same Results for Less Than Three Dollars More Than $16 Account for the Same Restaurants Right Now We Will Get 44 Blue or Yellow Pills 23 Discrete Shipping You Can Save More Than Hundred Dollars Our Pharmacy Prices Right Now Your 44 Pounds over 700 and Qualify for Free Shipping over Pain, Right Now 218-647-3800 21864738 Henry 186473 That's 800-218-6473 Now You Can Fly Anywhere in the World and Paid Discount Prices on Your Airline Tickets Flight to Date Alignment Harassment to Read or Anywhere Else You Want to Go and Pay A Lot Less Guarantee Quality International Travel Department Right Now Low-Cost Airlines 800 452 1075 800-452-1075 That's 800-452-1075 Okay Welcome Back Project Is Going to Be in Second Hour of Episode Number Eight I Married Grigor Join with Your Host Ken Brown Ducked Him around after All Just Here in Dallas or Plano Texas As Well As Song the Vice President of Marketing and Communication for Election All Will That Last Half-Hour Was Very Light Very in Writing Those Funds All Inroads Lead to the Truth but Everything Good Starts with a Peer Conversation of Beer in God Patient While I Have for All of Our Listeners If You Ever Listen to the Spinning Network Which Is the Host Network of Gut Check Project Be Sure and Check out Mojo 50.com and You Can Also Find the Morse Code Brenda Morse Hosts a Great Show on Their It Starts Every Day 1 PM Eastern That Is Brandon Morse of the Morse Code You Just Talk to Brandon Not Even 20 Seconds Ago in the Hallways You Return Back to the Shed I Did and I Was on Their Show This Morning at Say What Whatever He Is on I Want That Energy Just Truckloads of Energy He Does Tons of Writing Is a Copywriters Got Several Shows That Guy's Got a Good Beard Punishing My M&Ms Right Yeah Yeah I've Been You Know What I Got Beard and Good for Everybody I Think I'm on to 1/2 Years Growing This One Right Now in the Is All I Can Do I Went down to Skin Yesterday Does Not Back up What I'm Really 40 Years and One More Mention Here in Our Live at Reduced Going to Be KB MD CBD Minima Right Works for the Company Licks and All the Powers This and There's a Reason behind That the KB MD CBD You Can Find a KPMG Health.com Is Physician Recommended by the Physician and Sit across the Table for Me Right Now So We Can Get into Some Really Neat Topics in Terms of the CBD with This Man to My Right Mr. Chris Her Song and We Just Finished the Last Half Hour Talking about Essentially Finding the Truth and It Doesn't Have To Be All One Direction or All Another Direction It's Okay to Question Even Your Own Your Own New Revelations in Terms of What You Think of Him or What You Think Driving a Car Everything Should Always Be Open for Question Would You Say Chris Yeah I Think I Think Absolutely That to You to Find Your Truth and and Search for and Find out What Works for You I Mean We Were Just Talking Earlier How You When You First Met Us Got 24 Bottles of Our Product 22 People Came Back to Get It A Couple People Cited Didn't Report Being CBD Itself High-Quality CBD Is an Amazing Product I Think Everybody Should Be Taken Every Day but Some People Decide That You Don't Not Work for Them and That's That's Okay Well It's Really Interesting Because One of Things We Talked about Though Let's Get into from a Marketing Standpoint We Purposely Our Brochure What I Wanted to Address Was a Couple Things That My Patients Always Talk about Number One Why Did I Get Involved with That Number Two What Is Your and a Cannabinoid System Get Back in Balance One of the Things He Can Help and More Importantly Which Is My Favorite Panel Here Is Why Is the Powered by Alexa and All Brand Different from Other Brands That's in There Is so Many Good Reasons to to Work with Alex on Work Find a Quality CBD and There's Other Quality CD Companies out There but I Say I'm Partial to Alexa Now but It Is Important That You Know You're Mine and That's the Truth for Just about Everybody Mean I Became Vegan about Two Years Ago and Note the Reason I Did That Was A Lot Of the Same Reasons That You Guys of Been Talk about Your Fathers in Your Your Your Parents Is I Looked at My Dad and I Looked at My Mom and I Said I Don't Have Healthy Genes I Make a Change and in a Questioning What's Going on but I Needed to Make a Change in That's White and That's I Got into the Hemp Industry and I Need to Make a Change so I Had to Do Some Health Conversations and What That Did for Me It Got Me More Connected to What I Eat But I Get More Connected to What I Put My Body so I Look at the Labels Right I Look at What's Going on That's Why to Begin I Absolutely Think That That's What You Need to Do You Doing When You're Looking at CBD Where Did It Come from Who Made It Now Is It Organic What Country Did It Come from Doesn't Have a Certificate of Analysis Can You See That It's Clean Mean We Get to the Point Where Were Controlling the Grow Where We Control the Water Rights We Know Where the Water Came around Really so We Go Way All the Way down to Temps an Amazing Plant Right Yeah It It Basically Filters the Soil It Actually Is Good for the Environment but Let's Start from the Very Beginning Here so This This KB MD Health CBD Tell Me Where This Came from So Beginning to End so It Came Out Of Your Hair It Came Out Of Your Head Right. That's Right Then and What We Found Is You Coming to Us and Just Going Hey This Is Amazing This Is Working for RFR My Patients Is Working for My Client And I Need To Be Able to Provided in a Form Factor That Fits Your Protocols and We Were Just Excited about Beating to Partner with You on That Because We Want to Be Able to like We Talked about Earlier Is Educate People Right and You're Doing Such a Phenomenal Job of Educating People How to Better Run Their Lives and Heal Their Lives and Give Their Body Information to Heal Itself And What We Really Love Is That That CBD That You Work on Is Our 3600 Format It and We Been Using That Formulation for a Long Time and You You Put Some Formulation Changes to It That the Size Form Factor and Allowed It to Even Be Better and We Love That That Model We Go to Trade Shows All the Time Going to One This Week Pay the Effects Will Go to Autism One We Go You Guys Are Doing Autism 10 Yeah We Go Every Year Fantastic We Love Is Only I've Got Just for You so in the Future with Probably One Is Autism Autism Is Mid-May Mid-May Fortune Will Be Able to Do the Surgery A Lot Of Travel Coming up but Let Me Tell You What Working to Be Publishing Probably the Most Comprehensive and Scientific Review It Geeks Out I Mean to a Level That I Have To I Mean I'm Trying to Figure out How to Make It a Little Bit Easier but You Almost Can't Dance to the Point Where It's like You Need This Science That's the to Show the Most Educated Group of People That I Go and See Most of the Time Is Autism Group Right It's It Scientist Date Those Moms and Those Parents That Are Dealing with That Are More Educator and Cannabis and Diet and and Looking at the Details of What I'm Putting in My Body Than Anybody That I've Met and As Such and More Interesting No Group of People and What's My Favorite Part Is They Won't Let Us Leave Right We Get There Early We Leave Late Every Day Because They're Just Coming up and Saying I Need This Is Working for Me I Need This Is Working for Me What I Guess Was Two Weeks Ago When I Brought up the so like I Said Every Single Show We Do Some Sort of Science And One of the Articles That I Brought up Was Out Of Israel Where They Actually Looked at the Ananda Biden to AG Level Specifically Nana Might Be the One That's Always There Which Is an Endo Cannabinoid and They Showed In Autism Spectrum Disorder Almost Unequivocally Their Lower So the Deck Stacked against Him Right There You Need to Raise It up to Get Them to This Point so It's Almost like It Is a Essential Nutrient If You Are on the Autism Spectrum Disorder so I'm Very Passionate about That Myself Yeah and and I Am to Have in It It's Very Similar to Some of the Conversation We Are an Earlier about Social Anxiety and Social Stress and I Heard You Earlier before I Came on Talking about the My Study Where They Were Doing the Obstacle Courses and Things like That Right Quote on That Same Study They Were Also Noticing the Social Anxiety Change That Allowed This Because When They Felt They Had That They Didn't They Didn't Make It Right That Stress but the Ones on CBD Didn't That's One of the Reasons They Were Able to Continue to Move on Right so Some of That Social Anxiety That CBD Helps to Bring in the Balance Is Helped to Turn in the Autism Spectrum so with Me When You Said Did You Take a Bottle I Didn't Have a Particular Reason to Have Neuropathy I Didn't Have Something That Was There But My Family My Friends Noticed I Actually Probably Our M on the Anxiety Disorders Spectrum I Call It Because I Really Do I've Always Worried about Everything, but Now You Would Get A Lot Going on I Got Different Companies I've Got All the Stuff I'm like Wow I'm Handling It so Much Better Than I Ever Have in My Entire Life for the First Time You Drove More Than 4 Milesin One Direction I Did and You Know What I Questioned It Just like You Said Question the Dog Once I Tried Driving on the Wrong Side of the Road Don't Do That As Well That Was Certainly Will Not Change Recommendation I Want to Try to Change My Question This Dog Now so It Was Funny so My Most Subtle My Was Really Subtle Register Took a Long Time to Go Wait a Minute This Decking Needed to Never Been Normal before You Right Mean Really What You Have How You Recognize That Your Normal Is Abnormal for My Normal Was Abnormal and Then When I Think I Try to Do Quite a Bit of Mindfulness Meditation Daily and Try to Do It 20 Minutes or so and I Will Afterwards I Was Sitter Thinker Oh Wow That Event I Really Kinda Behaved over Emotional Chores That Overload and I Look Back like so Russ Is No Me Forever the Guy They Called in Dr. Dr. Veronica's Number Forever and You Don't like My Friends Kinda Get That They Get Ask at the Skill of Neuroses Is Little Little Whatever But Wow.What Looked like a Little Neurosis to You Was a Dock with His Feet Going like Crazy under the Water Trying to Keep It Together Now It's Just Easier for Me so like When I Have Patients Come in and the like Hey You Don't Get Some Anxiety Might Cool Me to like What Yeah Definitely and It Helps Me So Then People Will to Give It a Try I'm Vulnerable Enough to Say Hey I Do II Actually Do Quite a Bit Public Speaking Now but I Would Have Little Borderline Panic Attacks in the Beginning Doing That Still Do Little Bit You Know but It's Important What You're Sharon Sharon Rackley It's Not Issue That the Anxiety That You Have Right Its Mission When It Starts to Control Exact Right so You Definitely Have. I Mean I Had Anxiety Come on the Radio Show Right Who Knows Houses Going up and Absolutely That Stuff Happens but What's Amazing about CBD Answer Question Sure It's Not Going Hold Your Thoughts so Your Breathing into That Brown Paper Bag Where I Didn't Bring All of My CV with Me on the Way But Overall I Think That Where Were Going As We Were Talking about ALS and Autism in Different Things or People Using CD4 and It's Helping Them but To Your Point I Think CBD Is Going Make a Bigger Impact Once People Start You Need to Invest in Their Health Rather Than Their Sickness and It Gets Them to Be Able to Get to the Point That Their Imbalance on a Regular Basis I Give It to My Dog on a Regular Basis I Take Myself a Regular Basis Not Because I've Anything Specific I Need to Be Treated but I Know That It's Going to Help Reduce Inflammation's Can Help Reduce Stress to Help Me Sleep Better without Me You Live Longer And a Better Life I'm Gonna Bill to Relate to People Better and Bill Think Clear so That Type of Stuff Is Is Just As Important To Think about I Love How You Brought up Earlier the Empathy Oh My Goodness If We Could Have Something That Could Improve Empathy Will Begin I Could Look at You and I Could Go I Can Get Where You're Coming from I Don't Necessarily Agree with You but I Understand Your Emotional Tie to That One of the Things I Did All the Time Is You Know How Much to Take Something I Deal with in Medicine All the Time As You You Prescribed a Drug Someone to Take One Capsule Guy Didn't Work And so One of the Things I Had This Graphic Made Because I'm in the Process of Preparing a Webinar for the Electrical Salespeople I Had the Pleasure It Just so Happens That Small World There Is a Salesperson from Election All That Lives Right in the North Dallas Area Janet Lemke and so I Met with Him for a Couple Hours to Figure out What Do We Need to Do to Try and What You Want to Learn about Is What I Want to Do One of the Things That I Made I Had a Graphic Artist Make This and You Might like This so When People Say How Long Should I Take It and the Way That I Tell My Patients Is That It May Take Time It May Take Time to Fully Saturate Your Cannabinoid System Depending How Depleted You Are in Urine and Invited You to a G so I Think of It like a Sponge How Long Will It Take and How Much Will It Take to Fully Saturate That Sponge So When I Tell My Patients Is That I Really Want You to Commit to This for a Full Month Every Single Day And Once Again Probably 90% of the Time They Come Back and Want to Purchase More so Yes I Get It I Was One of Those People I Didn't Take It so When Kristi Was Trying to Promote It It Was like I'm Not I'm Not a Real Big Placebo Person Dragon Workers I Can Work and so Light and She's like You Feel Anything like That Not Really Three Weeks Later like Oh And Then Now I Start Reading about You Start Reading about the Full Fido Cannabinoid Spectrum and How That Works As an Anti-Inflammatory Possibly Anticarcinogens Always Are Things Which Is What You're Doing It Now You Look at Your Parents Go I Got Some Pretty Uphill Battle with These Genes Going on Hip and Stack the Deck in My Favor This Is a Micronutrient for the Absolutely and The Graphic Is Interesting to Me and I I Really Did Not Stir Some Good Ideas And I Think It's Something to Consider Because Saturating Reno Could Have Annoyed System Itself Sounds like It Sounds like a Scientifically Good Way to Say Something but I'm I'm Challenged with It and We Can Work through the Idea Because CBD Process Is Out Of Your Body Every 6 to 12 Hours It's Not like to See Where It Builds up in Your Body but What You're What You're Trying to Explain There Is Not That CBD Build up in Your Body but What You're Explaining Is That CBD's Is Doing Its Work in Allowing Your Endo Can Nab Annoyed System to Get into Balance so It's Doing the Work Is Not That Your Your The Sponge Is like Your Body Is Not Retaining All SEB Now You Got a Ton of CVD in Your Body Right so It's It's It's Definitely What People Need to Know If You Need to Continue to Take It Because It Can Allow Your Body to Him to Heal Itself It's Can Allow Your Body to Work on Those Things in Your but You Know That You're in the Family System Are Connected to and so the Way That I Try and Think about This Is the Way That I Communicate with My Patients in the Same Way That I've Always Done in My Practice That You Know Whatever Sits a Little The White Paper That Go to the Doctor the White That That Covers Bench Will I End up Using That As a Campus All the Time I Let RAI Draw Stuff out All the Time so When I Do Some like That It Is to Their Distress Visualize Okay I Need to Take It Longer One Goal in Trying to Accomplish Now Let's Talk about the Science That You're Talking about so Then You Start Listening and Reading Books and Reading A Lot Of Scientific Books and This Is Where Eric and I Talked in the First Half-Hour Were Truly Believe That This Is Going to Be a Field of Medicine Where It Can Have Its Own Field You Can Be an End of Canopy Knowledge Is Because When You Start Reading Some of His PhD's and What They're Doing on a Molecular Level So First I Was like Oh You Take CBD Unit Great to See Beauty and I Read Livermore Owner Note Actually Blocks FAH so That It Doesn't Degrade It Then You Remotely like It Technically Doesn't Even Do That What It Does Is It Prevents A Cell from Absorbing It to Degrade It And It Blocks That Aspect on the Subtle Level Okay so Now Were Getting to Really Deep Cellular Stuff Really Bottom Line Is You Take It Put on Your Tongue Let Your Body Figure out What to Do with Your Giving It a Micronutrient It's like an Adopted Jen Right after June Yes Are Absolute so Your Body Can Use It Weight Needs to Use Its Can Adapt Right so That's Why I Might Be Taking It for My Headache Right Now but It's Working on Some Mouse I Need to Continue to Take It so It Can Get to That Point Where the Other Things Are in Balance Work and Get That Headache That Pain Exactly and We Were Talking Lots of One of the Problems I've Seen in the Industry Is There Are Multilevel Marketing Thing so People Trying to Sell This and You Got All These Different Things Being Thrown at You And A Lot Of Times I've Noticed That People Want to over Science It so That They Appear Knowledgeable So That You Just Got All His Presence and Smart but I Learned a Long Time Ago That If You Can Explain Something Simple You Don't Understand 100% so If If You Feel Confused or Then You Don't Understand It and If Somebody Is Explain It to You They Probably Don't Know What They're Talking about That's My Take Away No Einstein Was a Great Example of That Right He Could Explain Amazing Things Really Simply and That's Is Basically His Saying I Didn't Make That up Right so He's the One That They Design Some Amazing Things That We Still Believe Today And He Figured out but He Could Explain It so the Average Fourth-Grader in Science Class like Myself Could Understand Right and That's the Same Thing That We Need to Be Able to Do Is Teach Health Professionals How to Explain CBD and How It Works and Make It Real Simple like a Sponge or an Adaptive Gender or Micronutrients of People Get What It's Doing What I Was Hoping to Do with Your with Relational Salespeople It Started out Almost Eric and I Were Trauma How to Do This or Did We Do This through Webinars and We Do This Because I'm Learning Also And I like to Go Did I Mean I Would like to Do a Huge Deep Dive so As Deep As You Want to Go I'm Willing to Go Welcome Back Which Is One Reason Why the Specialist When I Did Internal Medicine There's a Book This Big on Internal Medicine You like Wow That's A Lot Of Knowledge And Then You Realize That There Is a Series of Books This Big on One Specialty That's When You Realize Okay There's Just A Lot More to Learn. Learning Internal Medicine I Need to At Least Dive down into One Aspect and Even in My Own Aspect I Joke around That I'm a Lumen Allergist Meeting That I Don't like the Liver or Pancreas I Know about It but I'm Not Hepatology His or Her Pancreas Holly So There's People That Just Keep Diving down Further and Further so What I Wanted to Do Is Do a Webinar First Do a Webinar for the Electoral Salespeople Is What Jack and I Were Talking about That Bit You Almost like White Belt Level Then You Know I Used To Do Jujitsu's Was a White Belt Level Blue Belt That Black Belt Where the Black Belt Talks about These Molecular Aspects White Belt Really Is Just This Is You're Talking to Somebody so That They The Patient Back Telling a Doctor What to Tell a Patient Really Is What I Would like to See Because Many Times Especially in Texas Colorado Could Be Totally Different but in Texas Holy Cow My Partners Don't Know Any Nothing Nothing Well Coming from Texas I'll Tell You That That There There Is Smart and Quick to Pick up Anything As Anybody or Any Other State Myself but I Found Here That It's More about the Tied to the Legal Challenges That You Are Worried about Not That They Don't Understand or Want to Know about Cannabis but Their Believing That the Legal System Is Is Blocking the And since Texas Just Changed Laws Recently Were Really Excited about Removing Any Barrier for Anyone You Want to Be Worried about That but I Want to Go Back to the Topic of of Going Deep into CBD and You Were Talking about How It Works in an Inner Cannabinoid System and You Know the Studies That You've Done Because What We Provide for You Is a Full-Spectrum CBD Right And That's an Interesting Topic to Talk about and and Because When You Talk about the Multilevel Marketing When You Talk about Other Companies out There Knowing What Can a Quality Product You Get They Won't Talk about Full-Spectrum Then We Know What That Means Most of the Time and It's Really Important That You Understand That Not Just CBD Is What You Need to Get Right Right You Need All of the Parts of the Plant They Work Together in Unison to Open up the CB Wanted CB to Receptors When You're Talking about Eking out We Could Be Keith about Terpenes and Waxes and Flavonoids and Long Tail and Short Tail and All This Stuff and a Note Back into the Black Belt Stuff If You Really Want to Get down into That but We Need That All of the Parts in Unison to Work Together I Explained It Simply That You Know TBD by Itself like a Trumpet Right You Your List in the Summary Plan Gets on a Trumpet Your to Be Moved and Juergen Here and You Can Understand So That's like an Isolated Molecule CBD But a Full Spectrum Is like the Entire Orchestra Write All of the Parts of the Orchestra Can Work in Unison to Make That Much More Impactful Than Just the Guy in the Trumpet And That's What We Hope to Provide with Full-Spectrum Somebody That Is Also so You with with Alexa and All It Is Obviously a A Company That's Interested in the Education And Taking Basically the Hemp Industry to Higher Level They Are the Only Company Wanting to Do That Ken Did Choose to Work with the Lakes and Offer a Multitude of Different Reasons but Most of It Was Because of the Quality of the Product and There Are a Couple Other Great Companies out There Which Are Also Do the Same Thing but When You Look at a Rising Tide Raises All Ships I Kind of Think of the Reputable CBD Companies Is Kind of Really, Watching Each Other's Back and You Chose to Work with Ken Because You Wanted a Physician Recommended Branded Line That You Could You Could Unveil and Knowing the Date You Have These Handful of Cream of the Crop Companies If You Will Look Snowed Certainly Being One of Them What Y'all Doing to Kind of Safeguarding Marketing against Those Who Don't Mind What They Put on Their Label I Don't Mind If They Forge a COA Which Is There's a Certificate of Analysis or Or or You Have Someone Says I Didn't Really Respond to Hemp or CBD And It's It's Challenging It's It's Primarily 90% of What I Do All Day Is Is Try and Figure out Ways to Educate and Separate Us And the Good Guys from the Bad Guys Right We Work with the Hemp Roundtable We Work with the NHA We Work with the European Hemp Association We Work with All These Different Organizations Only to Help the Farmers Not Only to Help Group Together As an Industry and Have Each Other's Back Set Standards But Also to Work As Lobby Groups to Educate Individual State Governments Federal Governments on on What Is Good and What to Look for Because It's Not That Nobody Wants CBD to Be Everywhere It's That They Just Don't Know the Information Goes Back to What I Said There Only Say No Because They Don't Have Enough Information to Say Yes And Absolutely That That's Our Job Is Educating Doctors Educating People Educating Governments in Order to Make Sure That Everybody Understands the Beauty We You Mentioned a Physician Recommended Product Right Why Did We Do That We Do That Because Some People Don't Listen Unless You Got a White Lab Coat Right They Don't Listen We Know That That's Gonna Make a Change for People If We Put That on There We Work with Somebody like You Derek and Listen Sheriff Wright If I Just Had an Internet I Do Not Listen Right That Makes Sense We Never Got to Talk about That in the Next Half-Hour What Is It That We Can Do As a Community As Physicians and Allied Health Professionals to Basically Give Credence to That Only Two Prompts Really Quick to Looks Alone and Paul Because Joy Becker Was Talk about How Much Time and Money Let's All Put Towards the Hemp Roundtable Oh Yeah and You Guys Were Pivotal in Getting the Farm Bill Passed and Getting States like Texas to Adapt Absolutely and Him and Him and It Is Great and It's It's Great to See That's Paul's and Lick Saul's Mission Is Making Impact and Change Right by Making the Impact and Change Then Everybody like You Said All Title Rights And That's That's Awesome and but I Can't Believe It Was 1/2 Hours Went by We Got to about 20 Seconds Close at This Half-Hour If You're Listening to Get Check Budget Be Sure to Subscribe and Share Subscribe and Share Will yet the Next Half Hour Where We Were Going to Talk about Truth And behind the Marketing What People Can Do to Empower That Is a Physician Allied Health Professional I Was Saying Earlier and What You Can Do to Better Educate Yourself to the Marketing Materials Are So Awesome Stadium so I Want to Hear That Why Have Thousands of Aspiring Authors Teamed up with Christian Faith Publishing to Publish Their Blog Because Christian Faith Publishing Is an Author Friendly Publisher Who Understands That Your Labor Is More Than Just a Book We Provide Authors Freedom and Flexibility throughout the Publishing Process Professional Book Editing Award-Winning Design and Some of the Highest Royalty Structures in the Publishing Industry and Is Always You Will Retain 100% of the Rights to Your Book I Was Looking to Find a Company That I Could Trust One That Assisted in the Editing Process Completely Christian Faith Publishing Will Publish Market and Sell Your Books in All Major Bookstores and Online Booksellers As Well Especially Christian Bookstores Call for Your Free Author Submission Kit 800-978-4812 800-978-4812 800-978-4812 That's 800-978-4812 Never Forgotten Apparel Is More Than Just a Premium Women's and Men's Clothing Line It's a Movement to Remind Us to Where American-Made and Serve Those Who Serve Us Our Heroes Never Forgotten Apparel Gives 20% of Their Total Sales to Nonprofits That Support Homeless Veterans and Off-Duty Firefighters and 50% to Individual Veterans and Firefighters in Need Nationwide Checkout Never Forgotten Apparel.com Use Promo Code Matt and ATT And Get 15% off Your Purchase Dr. Kim Brown Here a Host of Project with Lycos Eric Rieger I've Seen in My Practice That I Frontals a Whole Lot More Than Just the Bloating Product Yes It Is a Whole Lot More Than Just Exploding Because the Polyphenols If You Find in Alicante What Are Some of the Things These Polyphenols These Polyphenols Can Help You Have More Energy and Polyphenols Are Great Sounds like It's Good Health: More People Than Just Loading Go to Let My Family.com/And Welcome Back to the Last Half-Hour of the Project Episode Number Eight Everyone Is Racing Back to the Table Lots of People Want to Talk about CBD Marketing outside Apparently Is That Right That Is Exactly Stopped in the Bathroom and Had to Clarify A Few Points Really Stressed out about Joe Biden's Announcement Going on What Was His Announcement and Run and Run for President He Made It Official You Know Everybody Knew It Made 70s Six Years of Age Good Form down 50 on What I Want to Be Running for Something When I'm 70 It's Gotta Be the CVD It's Gotta Be What Is Joe Biden's on CBD Is That What You're Saying Right Now I Don't Know Much for Your Support Just to Try and Get All Partisans Involved Every Single Candidate Did You Hear That They Will Rourke Is Using Tons of CVD Yeah That's All It That's All He's Doing Is ACV Trump Heavy Heavy and See No Reason but Jim Kardashian Well I Let Set Let's Get down to It so and Received Two More Email Sibley Wanting to Know What Can I Do To Participate In Research About CBD Now Can You Obviously Directly Invested in Terms of Proving the Concepts behind CVD You Want A White Lab Coat to Basically Help Perpetuate That Message We Run into Issues like the FDA On How We Can Present That Message What Would Be the Best Steps Going Forward If Somebody Has an Idea And Obviously with Alexa Not Working so Hand-In-Hand with Autism One and Helping out People Who Have Alzheimer's and Helping out Just a Very Adding a Litany of Different Ad Attitudes and Diseases What Should Someone Do They Want to Get Engaged with Hemp or CBD Research Well for Us Were Always Looking for No Great Ways to Be Able to Empower People to Learn More about CBD so If You've Got No Clinical Study That You Need Support with You Know I Reach out to Dr. Ken Brown CV Things It's a Good Idea to Get Some Guidance on the Stuff That He's Done but Overall There's A Lot Of Good Studies out There I Would Be Working with Your Local Universities to to Get Those Done We've Done Some Work in Local Universities and Local Doctors on Specific Clinical Studies Are Found One of Our Medical Visors Dr. Blair Ms. Dunn and His Own Clinical Studies with PTSD in His Own Studies with Michael Patients and Died He's a Keto and Pay Leo Expert Definitely Is Doing His Own Studies There Sort Were Happy to Continue to Educate but We Found A Lot Of the Studies Are Just Those Guys That like to Geek out and Learning and Figure Things out like Dr. Ralph L Michelman and the You Get Some Good Quality CV Tested out and and before I Will Destroy Something Here and so This Is a Program That I Share with Our Graduate Student That Works with Us It's Called Mandalay And What It Does It Allows You to Organize A Lot Of Research Articles so That I Can Search by Key Terms of Wonder Were a Review Article or Something like That so This Is Just A Few of the Articles That We Have Gathered To Look at Some of the Blogs We've Done to Look at Some of the References That We Haven't Read One I Just Want to Do This Because When We Had Currently Guy Photo by Modulation James Carroll We Had James Carroll on We Did the Exact Same Thing on Photo by Modulation And There's Good Science Oh Yeah and You're Just like Why Don't People Know That She Liked Outs and Where Journals Such As Show This to Someone People Sit There and Go One of the Classic Things Are Run into with Doctors This Includes with AFTRA Materials Include CBD Is Because a Drug Rep Isn't Sitting in Front of Them Showing Them This Now Just Want to Show You This This Is I Just Typed in Our Mengele Database This Is Not Everything This Is Only the Articles That We Have Collected So As I Scroll through This Is All Scientific Journals That Have Been Published That We Have Either Referenced Looked at Or Have Some Sort of Tied 2000 Everything out There yet I'm Still Going So the Sum of Those Funny Things Really Try It Wait a Minute So There's A Lot Of These Articles like the Mouse Article – of the Night Nobody Will Ever Read That Aria Is in the Journal of Neuroscience and Just Little Passed over to Get Married That's a Fascinating Article Put These Little Mice through No Mice Ninja Test And Actually Showed Consistent Results That's an Important Article That You to Get out There Yeah but Nobody What We Will Make the News People Want Talk about It Is What It Is and Here I Got Thousands of Articles Here Just of Stuff That We Have Looked at Not Everything Else Itself and in the That Part Where Were Run around with One Arm and Leg Tied behind Her Back I Can't Claim Most of Those Things Right A Lot Of Those Were Done Here in the In the United States A Lot Of Those Were Done by Johns Hopkins Her Brother Is Is so the FDA Really Cracks down on Us Saying Anything Resembles a Claim Even with the Study Connected to It Right You Mentioned Earlier in the Previous Alfaro in Working with the US and Roundtable Were Really Really Monitoring Each Other Make Sure Not Making Claims Right and It's It's Only Not Because It We Couldn't Right Because You've Got A Lot Of People Your Cellular Your Parents or Friends or Your Patients I Could Make Claims but We Can't Even Have Somebody That's Used Our Product on Our Website Say How Great It Is Because the FDA Is Definitely on Top of It so As a Marketer We Have To Make Sure That What Were Saying Is Important What Were Saying Is Is Factual And What Were Saying Is Nowhere near Making Healthpoint Said You since You Also Are a Member of Different European European Council Strata What Are the Differences They Are in and the Reason Why Want to Bring It up Is Because in Canada for Instance Are Trying to Heal We Can Simply Just Cannot Say That This Is Indicated for IBS Stateside We Can't Do It Because It's Not a Drug But with All Tron Teal in Canada They They Not Only Allow It They Encourage It Because That's What the Clinical Studies Showed so What's It like Taking Him Into Another Part of the of the World to Talk about Growing Russian Word and 4243 Different Countries Now Throughout the World Relational's Brand Is in 4343 Different Countries Right Now and What Were Able to Do Is Work with Those Individual Governments I Was Just in Berlin Was in Spain We Just Opened up in New Zealand All of These Things Were Growing Really Fast but Just Never Thought Didn't Start Losing Great Question No Actually Paul Is from Australia Not New Zealand Different Country Feelings about the Same Size Population Is a Big City but It's Interesting Because Paul Started in Australia And Kemp Has in Order to Make It Legal There in 17 Years Later It Is Now Illegal for Him Food but Not CBD yet so I Thought It Actually Started There You Know We Were Selling CBD There Years Ago but Once We Decided To Work with Their New Medical Marijuana Laws and Their Their Cannabis Laws and Then We Stop Selling Our CVD There Were Working with Them to Help Because You Get Physicians Note To Get a Prescription to Get So They're Working on Will It Must Be Very Very Progressive Because I Love the Resort about New Zealand Is That We Ended up Doing a Webinar for the Ceiling Society of Functional Medicine We Had A Few Hundred People on There It Was Me Doing That Live in New Zealand It Was Really Cool That New Zealand Is an Amazing Place] Excited to Work with Them You Mentioned Canada Earlier We Can't Send Canada They Won't Let Us Import CBD into Canada Really That There They're Working Really Hard to Protect Their Own Hemp Industry Oh Okay and so They Won't Let Us Import CBD across That Line so They Admitted Presented to Industry Not Necessarily Perception of the Use of Well-Baby Itself It Gets Actually Little More Crazy Because Actually Marijuana Is Recreational Illegal and CBD Is Not And You Have To Get a Prescription for It in Canada So It's I Mean Right so so Again Back to What I Do Every Day Is Educate People Because Clearly There's A Lot Of Confusion so the Macaroni Is Legal but the Cheese You Need to Is That There Is No Minutes Right Now Know That Makes Total Sense of Recreational Marijuana Is Legal You're Going to Monetize One or the Other Macaroni and Cheese Was Awesome That I Don't Get the CPD. No Joke Well That's That's What's Going on and so the Same Thing with Europe You Know We We Just Launched out There in Europe and Working with Each Individual Country Germany Spain They're All Different And We over There and As We Started in Europe Licks All Started Importing CBD Oil from Europe into Right United States Because We Couldn't Grow Here Initially That Humans Do It Stems Installing Just Never Was the Same Though They Were All and You Could You Could Extracted It Was All Illegal Five Years Ago Here So yet You Could Import CBD but You Could Make It Here Which Again Crazy Right so We Got Great Relationships over There so Now We Do the The Oil for Europe over in Europe We Do the Oil for Everywhere Else Out Of Colorado without Marketing with Research in Europe and What's What's That like Versus the United States It's the Same As Far As They Wanting to Have Research We Can't Make Claims Churning over There Okay There Is Back-And-Forth on What They're Calling a New Dietary Supplement or a Novel Food That Your License That You Have To Get a Take like Two Years to Get One of Those Licenses in One of Those Registrations or Working with All Them the Each Individual Country to Figure out What's Best for Them It's Just Evolving Somebody Message Me This Is Interesting Because This Is Kind of Shows The Hypocrisy Colluded Processes so Would like to Know If There's Any Benefits for Recovering Drug Tax So All Is Why Think about That Is That the Pharmaceutical Industry Produced The Majority of God Not the Majority but Certainly Huge Millions 4 Million People I Think There's a Are Addicted to Opioid Opioid Trap Finally One of the Guys Just Went to Jail Right They Just They Just One of the File Pharmaceuticals Jeff Morrison of Her Opioids They Just Finally Arrested One of Them I Did Not Know That But When You Look at That's What I Would like to Do As a Physician Is Not Asserting the Claim but I Would like to At Least Present How It Can Help in Certain Disease States or Pulled This Data from Mandalay and Say This Is a Review This Is Where It's at Right Is out to Do That Because We Do Know That It Actually Does It Actually Has Been Shown to Be Beneficial in Giving People a Phobias And It's Fascinating Because We Have Another Industry Which Is Creating Problems and You've Got Countries Making THC Legal and CVD.Or Make It Harder to Get CBD Than THC Which Makes No Sense to a Fantastic Full Head of Hair How You Have Not Pulled It out by Now Well It Was a Different Color Thing Whatever Forgot That It Did Affect Me So What Happens What Happens Going Forward so You Yell or Part of the Him Counsel And You Try to Work As an Industry with Other Repeatable Companies to Make Certain It Start Overstepping Your Bounds but There's Got to Be Progress yet Be Able to Pull You Mean Five Years Ago We Were about Black Helicopters Coming down and You Know Taken Her Stuff concerning EA Was Coming in a We Were Taken Black Paste Importing It from Europe No in Here Putting in Tubes in Boxing and Selling It You Know in That It's All All in a Legal Interpretation of Which Works Well and It Wasn't until Just Now the 2018 Farm Act That Made Everything Federally Clear and the DA Will Stand down but up to That Point Mean It Was A Lot Of Lot of Confusion Goes on to Discover That We Had Joy Beckerman on Who Have Deep Detail but One Sentence of What the What the Farm Bill Did So for What Us Deftly Go Back to What Joy Had Read Because She Was so It's Rental and All That but What It Did for Us Is It Removed It from the DEA's List of Scheduled Trip Right That's What It Did for Us so Made of Federally Everybody School Sure It's a Big Step Huge Step Step so so Now the Challenges the Other Three Letter Word the FDA And Their Guidance To Everybody on Where It Can Go and How to Use It and What's Good and What's Bad and No Full-Spectrum Isolate Topical Adjustable Can I Go in Food Can I Put It in My You Know Can Make Marguerite Out Of It Those Type of Things Is Absolutely What They're Trying to Figure out Where Working with Them Flushing Margaritas Are Great with Its Yes What Was Gonna Say Though That in in Terms of Challenging Every Thing with the with the Farm Bill and Now You Say That You're Moving on to the FDA I Would Say That Looks Now Specifically Is Taking A Large Step Forward Because I Don't Think That Even Two Years Ago That You Would've Considered Having a Physician Recommended Partner Brand so Having That I Think It's Almost like That the Cracks There so We Know That underneath the Stone Dancers Going to Be down There Just like It Is with Anything What Else Will and Trust When I Talked with Jack Your Salesperson Is That He Said That There You Gave Everybody When They Talk to Them so the Most Important Thing Is You Can't Say Anything It's Going to Get Us in Trouble You Represent the Company You Have To Watch What You're Saying Even If Somebody Else Is Outselling You Even If Somebody Else Is Saying Something Else You Are Representing a Company That from the Beginning Has Been on the up and up That Has Tried to Do Things at the Highest Caliber and Wouldn't You Guys Really Continue to Do That You Hire People to Going to Continue to Do That and Hopefully Will Continue to Do It from a Different Angle Which Is Just on Gaelic Splenocytes over You Draw Your Own Conclusion There Are No Claims Just to Conclusion Absolutely and It Kinda Relates to What You Guys Were Saying Earlier When Disease and Death Affects Everything on.Just That One Person Entire Family If Something If Someone Salesperson Said Something Wrong Or Made a Claim Right or One of Our Partners Did Not Affect an Entire Ecosystem or the People so Making That One Sailor Or Getting into That One Place or You Know Just Bending the Rules That One Time It Could Impact Everybody Right and so Many People Are Just Clamoring for the Product Why Would We Want to Risk That Well It's Fascinating That You Guys Are Holding Yourselves Accountable to That Because The Parallel Latinos but Eric Is a Former Drug He Actually Did That and You Guys Made That Talk about FDA Regulation You Pay A Lot Of Money to Make Whatever Claimant Is That You That You Paid If You Get Caught Saying Something Else Then You Get Sent to Pfizer Headquarters You Get Sent to Decatur Headquarters Forever Always Say This of It Pulling the Curtain Back You Also Almost Completely Coached and in That Industry That Time On Where Those Small Thin Lines Are and Almost How to Throw the Subtle Hints and I Would Say That the That the Deck Is Stacked Somewhat against the Natural Solutions Market and Industry And in Favor of the Pharmaceuticals Because They They Kind of Know Where They Can Test Those Ballots How How Deep You Can Get into Trouble without Really Getting into Trouble Spelling Times Year Does a Large Pharmaceutical Company End up Settling with the Government for Multimillions of Dollars in Whenever You Break It down by How Much Money Is That Really It's Only a 1/10 of a Percent of Their of Their Revenue Profit So It's the Last I Saw Was like $150 Million with the Final and Open Companies in the I Saw That I Saw That on Line Item John Oliver Yeah They Broke It down on John Oliver's Last Week The Hundred and $50 Million He Said That Was 1/10 of 1% of Their Net Profits for the Year One 10th of 1% of Net Profits Was Revenue Was Revenue and Net Revenue All Right Now You Know You like That Would Sorry It Was I'm Really Bad at Math Though I Heard It Was 1/1000000 of a Billionth of the Net Net Revenue Over the Weekend and Swear It Most like a Pie Horrible with Miss A Lot Of My God I Didn't Mean Much to the Mall in the Grand Scheme of Things and You Don't Have the Sign Is a Couple Different Reasons Why There Is With Something Is Natural Is Not a Whole Lot of Intellectual Property Someone Can Protection Is Not the Same Amount of Investment for Someone to Come in and And Say That They're Going to Do This In the in the Industry Where Some like GW Can Say Well Gratis Will Isolate Look and Say That We And in a Course They Want to Squash Everything Else It Happens to Be In the Natural Space Is Actually a Better Product so How Does How Does a Company like Alexa and I'll Fight off Things like That Well What I Don't Know How Much I Want to Speak Towards GW and What They're Doing but What I Can Tell You Is That In in Many Parallel Industries and There's a Pharmaceutical Version and There's a Natural Lurcher Is an Over-The-Counter Version in the Pharmaceutical Version and Both Exist Right Now This CBD Industries Projected to Be Somewhere between 15 and $22 Billion You Know There's A Lot Of Room for A Lot Of People to Great A Lot Of Good Products Potato Pie and and I Think That That the There's a Huge Demand I Think That There Is Untapped Potential for People to Be Able to See It and You Didn't Feel the Effects and We Are Hoping to Help Lead the Charge Make Sure Everybody Gets a Significant Amount of Policy Beauty If You Felt If There Happens to Be Any Smear Campaigns against Hemp Industry As a Whole That You May Be Somewhat Wondering Who's Who's behind It in the House and How to Counter That Well I Think like We've Been Talking about Coyotes Are Theme Going through Years Is People Are Seeking for Truth in Education and Sometimes They're Stuck in a Camp One Way or the Other and It It It Challenges Them and They Get Defensive Know Because They Believe Something Their Whole Life No I Think Marijuana And Its Industry Did A Lot Of Work to Help the CV Industry Exist Sure and I Think Some of the People in That World At Times See the Hemp Industry Is like The the Note the Favored Son or Money Grabbers Are Things I Got in a No I'm Super Grateful for My Own Marijuana History My Mom Growing It and Know the Joy Being One of Our Regulatory Officer Starting the Very First Temp Storing and Helping to Found Normal and in Those Other Things Because It Allowed Us to Learn about Campus and Allowed Us to Learn about All the Parts of the Plant and There's There's a Trace Amount of THC in Our Product I'm Not Hating on Cannabis or Marijuana at All Sure) I Believe It's an Amazing Product but You Know Normal Was Designed Is It Is an Organization To Help People Get No Not Be Arrested and Get Offer for Lauzon and Not Being Incarcerated for Years and Years and Years for Possession of of the Medicine Of Marijuana at the Time and Now A Lot Of That Work Is Done So They Have To Staff the Shift Now to to Some Other Things and and They're Doing a Great Job of Doing That but Some People Mark Right There Hanging onto You Know so When Things Were One of the on Our Last Show with Dr. Wade McKennitt Was Pick Surgeons and Sell Expert the Coolest Thing That He Said Was That Unfortunately He Had a Split with His Business Partner There Still Is to Work Together but They're No Longer in Business Together and the Reason Is Because They Had He Had a Patent on His Own Product And Somebody Came out with a Superior Product And He Realized He Put His Ego on the Shelf and Said That's a Better Product Is Better for My Patients Even Though This Is Mine with My Name on It My Patent on It You Bring Something Better to the Table Do the Thing That's Right Which I Thought Was so Cool Pez That Requires a Really Big Honest Person to Go I Acknowledge That You Did Something Better and What Happens Is Lumpy to Hold onto Stuff like What Were to See Here in the Industry I I Think and You Know This Holdup More Than I Do but Work Will Start Saying That Okay so If You've Got This Brain Issue Then Morgan Increase the Murder or Working to Grow or Strain That Has Higher Mercy And It That's One of the Terpenes of Skin Allowed to Cross the Blood Brain Barrier More or This Particular One Your Peripheral Issues Let's Do a Little More Bay to Carry off Lane in It and You Can Start Seeing It Home down to the Point Where It's Going to Be Strains That Are Relative Now Once We Start Allowing THC in Texas That It Can Be a Whole Thing Where You Have Okay Little Bit to See Little Distributed Well above And It's Can Be a Whole Science It's It's so Brilliant Absolutely You Can Really Go out What Is It Exactly That You Have Got It Let's Try This Which Is One of the Reasons Why Think A Lot Of People Are Very Black-And-White like Why Did This It Didn't Work I Was Listening to a Podcast on the Scientist Talking about How They Showed That The Same CBD Strain Very Effective One Person Not Effective in Another And It's Probably Because the Turbine Content Which Allowed Some Permeability like the Sciences Where a Deeply It's a Biochemistry Soup That's Going on Absolutely and the Formulators in the Science Minds behind All This That You Know at Our Outlook Small And Many Other Companies Is Amazing and We We Just Released a New Product That's a Proprietary Tripping Profiles Already in Each One of His Eyes Bright and One Sacrum, That's Brilliant at That One to Help You Wake up in the Morning Wanda Recover in the Afternoon When Help You Sleep at Night All to Help Did Be Directed to Help You Move Forward in and Just Taken a Little Simple Singleserving Packets so Those Are Important Things That's Cool That Were Learning How to Do Oh Dude We Got to Go up There Yelling and Not to Not to Be Mistaken I Think That Even in Marijuana That States the Terpene Profile That Would Differentiate between Indica and CT They Did Not Write and It Is so or Gorilla Glue Number for Your Atomic Flower Number Six and in Those Type of Things It's the Different Strains Your People or Are Tied to Those Names Are Those Strange but It's Really Those Terpenes in Those Waxes and If You Can Help Your Those out Right and That the Challenge Though Questioning Everything Is How Do You Not Then Create Some Frankenstein Thing That Shouldn't Exist Sure Right You Know How You How You Make Sure so It's a Balancing Those Things the Nature of It All and like Were Staying with the Full Spectrum of Entourage Effective Every Part of It Working Together and Pulling One or Two Things out Right Is Is That Cool Is That Not Figuring That's the Father Is A Lot Bigger Minds Than Mine and How to Make Those Work but That's What Were Announcing so Eric and I Talked about This Multiple Times Because He's from Pharmaceutical Industry but I Did Find an Article Not to Bring up GW but Your GW to Try to Figure out What to Do with Her Isolate All over the Place There's Actually Studies in Ulcerative Colitis One Study That Was Published in the Journal of Some Obscure IBD Journal That Nobody Ever Heard about They Had like a 60% Dropout Rate Although It May Have Worked with the Had All These People Drop out and I Truly Believe It's Because When You Start Messing with Mother Nature and Taking Away These Other Molecules That Keep Everything in Check and Balance and Work Together Consistency Braces They Also Feel That Affect Initially Right No Seatbelt Feel Some Result Initially but Then It's Not Lasting `Is Your Body That Adapts without the Rest of the Products to Be in There to Help Work Together in That Entourage Back That's That's My Belief Do Think That with Both Marijuana and Hemp since They Were Taboo for so Long and in the Transition of Of the Agriculture Environment We Have Here Stateside Be Gone through Basically Bass Rising Weight And Other Crops That They May Have and Now They Were, Returning Back to Natural Growth That Hemp the Marijuana Both Will Not Be As Adulterated I Guess You Could Say And the Terms a Way That They Grow but I Think There's Markets for for Both It Really Has To Go to What You're What You're Trying to Achieve Sure If You Know What We're Trying to Achieve with Our Growth Method Is Outdoor Natural Right Organic near the Sun the Soil All of That Because We Believe That All That Fits into What You Take Right We Don't Grow Our Stuff in Light That Pervaded Me Know Control Greenhouse with Three of Them Stacked Deep But If If In Some Marijuana Instances There Doing That so They Can Create A Certain Strain in a Certain Way so They Get a Certain THC Level and in Those Type of Things so Each 1 Has Its Own Pl. in the ecosystem but what we're trying to create something complete different than that can use comment on that rather because what you dealing with theirs you were talking a little bit about how the KB MD This Particular Branch Batches Little Bit Different Canoe Telling What What What Are Doing Slow so What Were Doing Is Completely Organic Right so with Organic Materials There's Variations Right Your Corn Is Different Size and Was Last Year Different It's so What We've Done with This Year with Our Him Are Has a Much Higher Potency Of CVD Than It Did Last Year And Effort in Our First Go around This Year's Gotta Leave More Get Better at It And As We Grow It or Improving the Process so That Means Is It's a Little Bit Less Amber Will Be Made More Gold in the Extract When We Get Right so It Smells a Little Lesson Because a Little Less Chlorophyll And There so the Taste Is Little Bit Smoother But You're Able to Then Pass on Those Savings Are Able to Create Products That Are Not As Expensive As Is Most Products out There You're Able to Guarantee Those Consistencies Is What We've Done This Entire Time Is Make Sure That When You Get a Product like Ours There's an It Says 300 Mg Versus 900 Mg There Are 900 Mg CBN Right so Guaranteeing That Quality in the Potency and Impurities Is Paramount What We Do We Have a Limited Time with the One Thing I Want to Comment That in the Industry Itself There's Lots of Confusion about Pricing in Milligrams Will Have A Lot Of Patience to Come to Be the like Oh Will That Is Your Your Your Product or the 3600 Whatever You Know It's Too Much Money and We Look at It Were like Wow Your Paint Five Times As Much for the Amount of Milligrams That You're Getting Consumer Labs Actually Did an Analysis and Showed Little Licks and All Milligram per Milligram Is the Most Economical CBD That's Highest Rated Absolutely and I We Worked Really Hard Towards That Additionally I Think That the Industry Needs to Shift into Be Price per Serving Versus Price per Milligram Because of the Bioavailability Challenge That People Are Starting to Get into If The Product They Use with a High Quality MCT Was Much More Bioavailable Than Somebody That Uses Just the Final Coconut Oil And We Can Talk about Other Delivery Systems Where We're Increasing the Bioavailability of the Product so You Need Less Milligrams You Guys Just Have a Scientist That Works on This Right like We Should Have That on the Show and Just Talk about the Different Types of Bowsher Product That You Have That Be Really Cool and I Living Well in the We Don't Have a Whole Lot of Time Left but Even Election All Just Couple the Cart Back They Know That You're Working Still in Research on Other Delivery Systems We Can Can't Comment on Them Today Very Very Excited in Terms of Locating the Health Available Offer in Terms of a Physician Recommended CBD or Him Product Absolutely Chris You Have a Minute I Can't Thank You for Coming by Now Thank You Any Last Thoughts on the Tip Your Brain Here We Go down There to Represent KB MD and Election on the Booth That Were Gonna Be Selling A Lot Of CBD to A Lot Of People and and and Help and Then Redo Some Information from Those High-Fat Diets for Sure Who Love It Austin Texas Telefax This Weekend This Weekend Summarizing Our Catching Project YouTube Channel Get Your Project and I to Sketch a Project Please Subscribe and Share We Will See You Next Week Big Announcement Next Week Yes I This Is the Only 24 Hour Take Anywhere Platforms Dedicated to Food and Fun Clear Spoony And Now I Found from Geico Motorcycle It Took 15 Minutes to Take a Spirit Animal Quiz Online Please Be the Cheetah Please Be the Cheetah and Learn Your Animal Isn't the Cheetah But before Less Appealing Blog Fish Come on Let Insult to Injury You Could've Used Those 15 Blood Fish Minutes to Switch Your Motorcycle Insurance to Geico Geico 15 Minutes Could Save You 15% or More on Motorcycle Insurance
Dr. McKenna has successfully treated an incredible array of diseases, inside and outside of orthopedics with stem cells. McKenna has been on the front line of stem cells and their clinical application for decades. If you have ever wanted to know the vast array of proven applications for stem cells, do not miss this episode.
What stem cells are, how they work, where they are and are not taken from, why cord blood and PRP are NOT the same as stem cells technology used today, the issues of the FDA, his association with RMI (Riordan, McKenna Institute for stem cells with Neil Riordan), treating Mel Gibson and other celebs & lawmakers, the future of research in stem cells, why all SC healthcare providers are not practicing equally (or ethically), why Panama & the Bahamas are used for advanced stem cell therapy and more.
https://TheCellSpa.com
https://drwademckenna.com
Atrantil
https://lovemytummy.com/spoony
Prolon Fasting
https://prolonfmd.com/isreferral.html?p=KBMD&w=FMD
https://kbmdhealth
https://gutcheckproject.com
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gadget project this is episode number seven on marriage for you here with your host Dr. Kendra I was going on today good morning good morning how you doing I am doing well how are you doing this more well than what I am on the day number four of the fasting mimicking diet how about you I am also on day four the fasting mimicking diet made by prolonged made by prolonged so I want do a shout out to Dr. Joseph onto the CEO prolonged and Dr. Walter Longo who wrote the longevity diet they sent us some prolonged kits and were given a shot the fasting mimicking diet they are it is the fasting mimicking diet so I am comparing it to a previous experience of doing a water fast it's very interesting and this is far more tolerable quite honestly and just this morning I did check key tone levels I was it 2.2.1 date date three you're supposed to start doing it so by as this day goes on you probably start kicking up a whole lot more yeah so I found that to be beneficial it's only falling in line with what you want I did comparing this to a water fast at this point I was big meal for being in three nap days I feel like I was really ready to start eating the by day four that was enough for me I did dad it four full days of the water fast but with Pro line I feel actually feel really really good it's not too bad it is nice the way they can portion out every days meals what were going to be eating so my wife's doing with this also the only hard part was it earlier this early this week I had to cook dinner for the boys because they still gotta eat and family had some nice juicy steaks to sit there and you can have any of it I couldn't do anything with it was not the box about yourself how was yours will I'm you I'm doing well this is my fourth five day fast I guess is a little over year trying to do them every few months I first want to prolong which is not a big deal all second one I did kind of my own little fasting and keep mimicking style I didn't have that what I'm in a call that burst of energy right or possibly it was stimulation of stem cells listed in that in a few minutes here and then I did a water fast only my ketones went through the roof but I was quite miserable sore back to the prolonged given this a shot and we'll talk about that in the second but I mention the stem cells today's guest while this is going to be if you know anybody to have autoimmune disease if you know anybody that has back pain anybody has joint pain to an end because we have a stem cell expert Dr. Wade McKenna orthopedic surgeon skies a bad ass in this field and we were sitting there talking just outside I'm like holy cow I'm just considering take notes like we brought in a professor of stem cells may ease size pretty amazing how he actually played football at Oklahoma State went to med school I perform indices with him several years ago whenever he was still heavily just as he is today doing orthopedics he's a fantastic surgeon all of this is led to somebody's actually can remind me you he never wants to stop learning and so it's it's led to areas where he is today and he is I would say quite the expert with stem cells and where the future is going with them so this is so exciting that we have to time to fast for this episode because you know people throw around the word stem cell a whole lot and much like the CBD industry people throw around there's lots of misinformation there's lots of quality differences the people that are actually giving stem cells there's lots of differences with that so we could clarify all of it I really feel like there's some parallels you and I have brought in several CBD experts right and there's some parallels here and so you know this is a super exciting for that anything going on with the family anything going on socially well this last week whenever Morreale moved into preparing to do this fast I would say that the boys have the have enjoyed teasing us and other than that they've they thought back into all season basketball quite busy and is kind of the every day as usual at the round Renner household self typical tennis weekend both the Lucas and Karla were playing tennis and they both did really well it was kind of a little curb although I'm really proud of my team because as working to be launching the D hat health box Dr. Lisa Alvarez actually did a little commercial for she did so yeah and so do I get a chance to pop into the set see it the move honestly try to see what that happens I appreciate her taking her time to do that so another chemical thing I just go phone with Dr. Chang Ron Houston yeah great guy fantastic functional medicine doctor he actually has ties with prolonged him and him and Joseph were friends okay to be having a huge conference coming up on April 27 were he to talk about brain got issues where you have them on the show because he's got some incredible stuff on brain waves and its affect pre-and post trauma and its effect pre-and post-diet change and using hemp dry products so super cool I just have a phone with him so to get a chance go to his Facebook page a lot of really cool information so awesome I think the work on the move and all these unique directions right but what's the big deal stenciled what we want to talk about I think that it's it's the newest new frontier it's no different than the way we've been spending time talking about CBD why why just a few years ago the revelation that you had into polyphenols and how I could do these are it's a lot of what nature is giving us to work with and it's kind of amazing that it's it's all coming to fruition nowadays and you hit on it a little bit earlier I know that the Dr. McCann is going to address it as well the FDA it many times when we want this government entity to be on our side in helping us out can really be stymieing a lot of the progress that many of the citizens could be enjoying that they could be taken party to have a better quality of life and in a really odd yet when you get down to money reason you find out that the FDA is is hard to budge out of the way in in terms of progress so interesting because what he was talking about is exactly what I've been doing so in in all fields of medicine it's very hard to change the direction of this large Titanic like shipper people doing things and we have either many ways as he said as he described it to skin a cat or really none of them really working very well sure and then when you find something it's hard to get people to pay attention to much like trying to write I mean when we sit there when we came in without her until we know that mojo and 5.0 guys are talking there really trying to tell everybody about the bloating effects with it but we know that our trenches made up of polyphenols and we know those polyphenols are really good for you they actually are the antiaging and anti-inflammatory molecules in the Mediterranean diet so we need to expand that message a little bit more rhino people hey you can take these polyphenols which are in trying to and they can actually do some of the things Duncan that stem cells do and we can talk about this in some science but if you're curious about that if you looking at upfront Hills or any place that you go where they should go to love my tummy.com Ford/spoony that's love my tummy.com/spoony and then use the code spinning Sabal cash while you pick up your own polyphenols to be delivered right to your home and then keep listen to this because you do realize that these there's lots of overlap chain runs you to be doing a brain gut thing where he shows that you need to protect your gut I'll try to help with that we got Wade McKenna here talked about stem cells the body wants to rejuvenate itself you need to give it the things that can this is going to be so excited working a really geek out today I am the earliest I want to definitely I want to hang in there because what you learn is literally some of those cutting edge stuff you meant Dearborn stem cells person to make a circuit in the news and it's really odd the way the people began to report new science and health sometimes it can be this is the greatest thing ever or it can be a lot of scare tactics in our member the first time I heard about stem cells it was the unfortunate been taken from unborn babies etc. but that's not what's happening in all when you begin to get past that layer will guess what it's just like anything else you get past the first layer and then you find that there's a whole new world to discover and in terms of what Dr. McCann is going to talk about we have lawmakers here in the US to prohibit certain strip certain lines of stem cells being used but they are still incredibly beneficial and some of the culturing over the growth of those stem cells and do what the US would state would determine to be tissues they couldn't do it here they could do in Panama and oddly enough who found his work in Panama always couple lawmakers really kind of the good kind of weird and ironic that the same people there are part of that institution it doesn't allow us to do certain things will go out of the country to get that kind help is such a small world and its fate in whatever it is I think a lot of things that have happened in both our lives have been opportunities that we take advantage of and I love you and I were working one day and I was like dude did you see that Joe Rogan we had Mel Gibson on and some other guys some PhD knew it yeah I know those guys and I was like laughing because no Gibson said the same thing a lot of people think is like you think about stem cells you have a mouth going up the side of your face and now not at all as it turns out he took his dad down to Panama and his nonmaterial dad and he got better and that's what I was like whoa and you started saying to me this is a long time you're over your half your menu go to meet my buddy Wade because he's doing a lot of the same thing same parallel paths and since it is really scientific and is just trying to get people better that's it a year of your right on and just think about that so that being at least 18 months ago I believe that Mel's dad was started going down there maybe five years ago think of the advances in the tank and the technologies that have come along with stem cell research and send that's exactly why Wade Dr. Wei McCann is here to tell us a little bit more about where it's going how you going to measure what is authentic stem cell injection what is there the right protocol what you be looking for who are the imposters there's a there's a lot of information out there it's no different than learning about CBD and where to go get the right kind of CBD of its harvest of the Rahway producer away I just think it's it stinks I went to a doctor friend of mine Dr. Marlon Padilla and we are in his office and he just are talking about I'll check this out I'm now doing stem cell know the quote you have stencil expert on this week you go take a listen easier is it Hillcrest medical and University Park area… Having super great guy very innovative himself trying new things yeah and you he started do that like that small world some sort to pay attention to all these things so one of these lectures get caught up on everything that sewer pursuer at night to geek out a little bit so how I Titus altogether how to retire fasting together how to get stem cells and how we come full circle to discuss what's out there in the literature about what were passionate about also write well it's kind interesting because what were doing with that with that diet selection are trying to heal CBD fasting and learning that stem cells you find I think for all of our listeners as well as us this is all synergistic there's a reason why we're Gerber took the mail here with this kind of message so using our graduate student that always helps us out we've got some really cool articles kinds altogether, and with what I consider really geeky stuff I want you to hang in there for me okay so the first question is your on day four of the prolonged fast why the world even doing that well it has been shown that in cellular metabolism in July 2015 summarize whatever you and will fast it promotes stress resistance so basically when you're put on a fasting mimicking diet or I should back up we've always known that the caloric restriction diet has been shown in yeast and other animals to prolong life Walter Longo in his book figure out a way that you can eat a little bit and trick your body to believe that it is completely fast that's the fasting mimicking diet is so this study in 2015 looked at putting mice on the fasting limiting diet and they demonstrated that these mice decrease the size of multiple organs improved glucose control decreased visceral fat lower blood pressure improved bone mineral density rejuvenated the immune system and reduce cancer risk always too good to be true and Academy just five days three times a year and can accomplish this but wait there's more we got more here they also showed after they re-fed the mice solicit what this is the coolest thing about this when you listen to vaulter give lectures he said it's not so much the fast it's the recovery from the fast because when they re-fed him they showed that in older mice areas of the brain like the hippocampus showed neurogenesis and improved cognitive performance while yeah so it's pretty wild with the re-feeding that super important which makes it fun because on Monday for I'm really looking to some refuted yeah can't wait for some re-creating but any that's all part of the process I will say going through at my second fast that this is becomes easier it's it's not as hard as the first run of some that's with prolonged but it is the expectation is they are know what to expect I know struggle for so what would be contributing to better neural thinking that is you a question so the question is what's going on there so then we dug up an article in the Journal of stem cell research in 2016 what they showed is that fasting protects against immune system damage and induces regeneration by waking up stem cells or by catalyzing dormant stencils so all those what they realize is what this article describing is what vulture was figuring out right there what he had figured out that all comes down to stem cells at the refuting stage basically not with her not stenciled several times which is to find what is real quick stem cells are the body's raw material their pre-sells for all other cells stem cells are the only cells that can generate new cell types and they can divide into form what are called daughter cells which become specialized cells that eventually come specific organs that's all me to say about it because wage may come in here and blow our minds until us a whole lot more with what stem cells are so for my all intensive purposes on coming here knowing stem cells can become other cells – easier to tell us way more with that so basically after you fast and then you re-feed you flip a regenerative switch which promotes stem cell regeneration in the blood making organs so that the important thing so when you go into starvation mode the body will save energy and one ways to recycle immune cells and that causes autophagy so old and sick and dying cells are programmed to hate go away right and then the autophagy gets rid of the old site sells them when you re-feed the stem cells wake up and they go around there's a bunch of fallen soldiers they don't bother them but they go around and say we need new people to replace this over simplistic way to lead into a much cooler explanation of that and then with each cycle you re-feed you get rid of sick and dying cells and replace them is like a janitor it's exactly like a janitor so five day fast three times a year you just cannot quit you just doing some serious housecleaning I member Saturn panda when he talks about that that's the godfather of circadian rhythm fasting or intermittent fasting right he's got mouse models he still does a prolonged fast because he describes it as you brush your teeth every day and then you a couple times a year you going to get the deep cleaning from the dentist I like that analogy you're always doing maintenance which is you keep in the nine date of of what you're eating but every once while you get to do that deeply definitely and then trying to fast for the first time you you can look at you like why would I not want to eat but if you look at the history of time where people were in the movement nowadays to return to health where people are trying to get healthier and you look at things like Paleolithic's for instance they talk about new diets and ways to eat in a pale lifestyle some of that also includes fasting and the reason is the primal man also went a long time without having food and for a few days at a time they would have intermittent fasting org or a few days fasting themselves yeah and so basically you're just returning to what it is that we've all been programmed to do for a long time that it just so happens the last several generations we've had ubiquitous amount of food here in the US and so now we it'll thicker bigger let's okay so this is no doubt about it feet eating is awesome right but eating is an inflammatory process so when you eat your you to become inflamed a little bit and then you incorporate the nutrients and so will the way that were doing and how will we eat so much it's probably not the healthiest way so right now where the fast let's talk about was actually a lot going on with our bodies before talk about Howard to tie all this together two stencils. So day one this is basically the five defenses what's happened to you and I so day one just upon your body day to start doing some fat burning day three start doing some cellular recycling basically you're going to clean up start realizing were on day three now for backing cavemen times they one day to that's normal day three your body starts going up oh we better get ready for something because were you have to go out and get some food soon and that's when you start doing the cleanup and this is when a lot of people will reach ketosis day for you and I right now are in this this is the cell regeneration this is where autophagy started yesterday in autophagy is when those old sick and dying cells are programmed to go away much like we talked about with the polyphenols when they get in there in your list and causes my top a G5 in the foods we eat will do that then this starts artists are stem cell-based regeneration is starting to ramp up so when people talk about how I fascinated 24 hours 09 and identity a fast we've come this far when were this far into it tomorrow's what all the real magic happens all the magic day five regeneration continues now we've turned on our stem cells and the body is being rejuvenated from with it now the first time you and I did this did this are fast I think it was tonight will this happen to both of us we both slept what two hours yeah I even so every time that a fast so far I feel great whenever I go to bed and feel really rested but don't last night that of the of my fast I basically went to bed and then I thought I woke up again as a man what a great night sleep again and I looked over the clock I been asleep for two hours and 15 minutes and then I sat around the house like what am I going to do for the rest this morning about tired right now and then later I learned that was over Rex and it was being released telling me I always forget that all Rex and O Rex and so is released from hormone release my brain saying it's time for you to go and eat and I had in them and an abundant oriented interview time for you to get up have the energy to go kill the woolly mammoth so that you can eat and you can feel it a mere year manic and it was time and you saw me run when I quit the fast I mean I think of the time I my blood sugar was 54 and and and I felt fine with that and at key tones I think for 4.8 and the moment that we drew ride today the labs and that in the blood that one time it was it's time to eat yeah so both of us have ever similar expenses this is the third day that we done this so now let a geek out here for the last four minutes because this is where I think it comes in really cool and so we found an article that has a really long title and I just like I like saying it just because I realize that this is the kind of stuff I'm reading ditto for the show treatment of periodontal ligament stem cells with Emil Warren CBD promote cell survival and Ronald differentiation via the P 13 K a K TM tour pathway that would scare most people scared me off at first but our graduate student said this is a fantastic article hundred 11 so basically what this whole article shows is you can get stem cells from a few places Dr. McKenna will explain where bone marrow fat but one of the places periodontal ligament so these are known as mesenchymal stem cells meaning that they are the least differentiated cells and they can trying to become anything so one of the important things is quality of stem cells keep that in mind because we'll talk about that coming up quality stencils so one of the things about stem cells is that there are a lot of different qualities but once you get the stem sellout you have to keep the stencil healthy so you have to keep it alive and you have to keep it in the best environment possible so there's different mediums to do this this study looked at taking stem cells out in vitro meeting in a dish and they bathed them in CBD and more range in MO R which is a program to sign a day in which is a polyphenol which is the same stuff that upfront deals made of so they they bathed them in CBD and in a polyphenol blend amazing supercool they did it for $40 and what they showed is that they demonstrated longer survival less a pop ptosis or programmed cell death decrease the M tour pathway the M tour pathways the pathway that makes cells grow right so bodybuilders lots and tour pathway but guess what cancer enter pathway also so to growth pathway increased differentiation capacity meaning they can become more of something quicker they increase nesting and DDN after which neurogenesis or new nerves new brain tissue right and then it did a deep dive into the genes that these stem cells turned on that gets into the cool epigenetic stuff that we talked about before base will have these genes so they concluded that in the field of stem cell research it may be improved by bathing them in CBD and a polyphenol mix so if you not get injected anytime soon might not be a bad idea to start from the inside using some CBD and possibly some upfront it sounds to me like the research is probably on the on the cusp ears are going into that that's why they're bathing them in the point assignment in the CBD but it's weird that just three weeks ago when we had Mark on he was talking about his D differentiated contra sarcoma test stem cells that basically were released and they didn't know exactly where to go they begin to proliferate and he even said it could be found in an organ anywhere in your body even when you feel like you taken so it's critically important that your stem cells are differentiated they get to the place they're going to be and do what you need them to do you don't want them growing out of control so maybe possibly will find on the future that combining a polyphenol set with a plant a point of sanity and CBD along with stem cell therapy would be a protocol I be awesome to get people started here or should they go to get I would eagerly for you go to K BMT health.com and go to the store you can find both are trying to heal and the new KB MD CVD or you can always go to love my tummy.com/spooning and hearing about four minutes really joined by the Dr. Wayne McKenna so if you know anybody that has joint issues back issues knee issues and take it one step further autoimmune disease there's so many things that now look into the science of stem cells that is going to be supercool to geek out and this guy knows his stuff I am excited to have youth if you had any questions about stem cells is the witness of the main unit turn to Dr. Wade McCain is going to join us here we can take a break in about 10 seconds thing wrap up now just thank you guys for the prolonged high talk Elson if you are trying to quit drinking or doing too many drugs listen to me you don't know me and will never meet I had a problem like you want I drank and used a party a little too much till he got out of control and almost ruined my life I realize I needed help to fix my problem before it totally destroyed me if you tried to fix your drinking and drug problem and you know you can't do it alone you need to call the national treatment advisors they'll immerse you into a 30 day program to replace your old habits with new habits and totally change your life and if you have PPL private health insurance the entire program may be covered fix your problem right now before it gets any worse get clean call now and learn more 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 it looks like you're losing I am I losing weight I am losing my lost about 10 pounds how are you doing it funny name but I done it with review zone RAD use zone.com and the stuff works it's you you get it all that the molecule this that found in that all I can tell you is it it's a it makes you feel full and he keeps your mind off of wanting to overeat and also boost your metabolism yes you're done and more guys try it today it's gonna work for you like his work for Brad and countless other people read you zone.com are IDUs owners.com fast track student loans can get your student loans out of the vault stop any wage garnishments stop collection calls and stop seizure of your tax refund give yourself a break to stop the stress and get your student loan payments down to as little as $25 a month based on what you can afford to pay 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 okay were back it's now the second half hour episode number seven of the gut check project we are now joined with Dr. Wade McKenna but McKenna thanks so much for coming in today really appreciate absolutely so see what I do know him yeah you know whatever no word of her Rhonda Patrick goes on Joe Rogan's economy gets better paper out you'll be taking some notes I favor Gerardi, Patrick never feels more like absolutely just a caveman. Dr. she's a lot of knowledge of sausage yellow management so you since you do already went through a couple of small things in the last half-hour you played football look on the state you been orthopedic surgeon for several years but that's not really what you here to talk about today the cool part is I actually can you hear we good we are little my problem were going to get something fixed here real quick right area is going the cool part for me they spent is kind of been allowed to reinvent myself as a traditional surgeon when the science, caught up to what we do and figure out that a lot of what we would think of as traditional medical approaches were less than optimal from patients and point so exited a fellowship in trauma and post dramatic reconstruction after an orthopedic surgery residency and after a general surgery internship so in during a general surgery internship when I thought I was going to do transplant surgery because that was the coolest guys at the hospitalists on which Trina here in Dallas Fort Worth multiple hospitals with DFW medical service rendered him orthopedic residency I did my fellowship and trauma to the general I was Roy Sanders 2000 but hospital where as to trauma fellows panorama the program we had 10 residents in for helicopters and no sleep with a whole new episode on what lack of sleep will do to your stem cells well it lack of sleep and not healthiest UW not like lack of sleep induced by fasting where you feel like Superman lack of sleep induced of note falling asleep in the boat in the lounge chair waiting for the nurse to tapping the short essays time to go from zero to hero so but during the trauma fellowship we became very adept because we got stuck with a lot of the fractures that other people treated heel so the posttraumatic part of that is acutely we were stabilizing multiple extremity injuries but we also do those people over multiple extremity injuries and we would get referred a lot of the trauma patients the gentleman traumas what we called it which comes to visit you in clinic does it come to you in the middle night by helicopter gentlemen trauma that watching your clinic is like I get this knife stuck out as well hey I've had five surgeries on my femur fracture I still can't walk and still no bonus I have is soon healed and we had to find a way to not only promote tried to trick the body and the human something that already showed didn't want to heal but in the least invasive way possible to turn the table can help the patient generate new bone best way to do that early on was Boomer us were concentrate the very Baston first uses of bone roster concentrated in traditional surgery was in the treatment of nonunion when someone has a fracture that doesn't heal there is delayed union which is means takes forever that but there's nonunion wishes means it doesn't heal there's no bone if you have a leg doesn't have a hip fracture can't walk can't but wait on it given upper extremity with an unhealed fracture pretty much flail you can you have a non-nonfunctional extremity bone rest will concentrate in the treatment protocol this allowed us to be much less invasive instead of just it doesn't make a lot of sense to just take out all the other plates and stripped the blood supply room muscle replay fracture further destroying the blood supply to the fracture that already the numbness blood supply to heal so let's go ahead and revisit that really quick because as a surgeon it's interesting to dear somebody because that's typically that's a knee-jerk reaction all that last surged and worked when he operated as exactly so say one more time with re-operating guys will here's the problem with re-operating if you didn't heal the first time it's because of the formation of scar tissue not healed tissue so the healing gets stopped the fibrotic tissue begins scar tissue hurts scar tissue does not much blood supply and scar tissue is very functional it's fibrotic it it can take up some space for the most part the difference between the interface between healthy tissue and scar tissue continues to be painful forever every time you move something severe big fibrotic knot of scar with an attendant and you have some healthy tissue that generate the connects to it the mismatch in pliability that mismatch of you would never use metals that have different hardness when you put together an engine it is the soft metal in the hard metal caused threading and corrosion in significant problems and and metal mismatch soft tissue mismatches just as big a problem we create scar tissue and people hurts generates pain generates an inflammatory response or chronic inflammatory response from cytokines that without decent blood supply to scar tissue you want to get rid of so you end up with long-term and continued muscle that and a lot of our surgery approaches and a lot of surgery where you just strip off the blood supply to the bone that it needs to help heal don't work very well because were not focused on how the body needs to really heal this fracture were focused on making x-ray and I did just make you look nice so your I think it's fascinating because essentially I've done the same I've done the same thing in my practice rub to move from traditional gastroenterology become almost a functional orthopedist yeah I would like to think that that I I just come to the table with some of the extra tools that I need to kinda set the table for the patient to help them heal I the body has unique ability to overcome a lot of things and in our body actually wants to heal a lot of times I'm just try to help people get our own way the same way the gastro neurology diet you're trying to help people get their own way from being about health right with with orthopedics I have to help the body the body knows the triggers and mechanisms and has the entire growth factors to help your body heal as we get a little older as we have chronic injury you rely radiation cigarettes coffee alcohol late nights cortisol stress we impair our body's ability to respond appropriately to injuries what the stem cell does for you is that the cell that helps you respond injury the problem is is you get a little older you have less of them and they don't do as much as a used I would guess that a second I'm still I want to hear the history only here got half because you ended with during residency restarted down do bone marrow concentrate bone marrow aspirate concentrate for nonunion fracture not only fractions your worst people so you guys were willing to try some things other people work well we had the opportunity because these people had no other options so the best part about doing a trauma fellowship is we were there last Hope we were the the Island of misfit toys so to speak Ryland Mr. Toyo we will use the we stood especially around Christmas time when that movie comes out with Chris Pringle we we would literally collect the injured patients from all over South Florida South North Florida Alabama Georgia we were the only level I trauma center on the West Coast of Florida and so when people would fail multiple surgeries we they walk into the resident clinic and you had to come up with a way to solve the problem and a lot of times it was as easy as finding a way to put more stress on the fracture you did have some plate that was plated and distraction so last times was just taken some screws out sometimes it was loosening up a frame that was holding the fracture apart and then let the fracture heal we would compress the frame so that the P0 electric effect fractures need stress to generate bone so stress across bone generates electronegative charge calcium and phosphorus are positively charged the biomechanics of basic physiology which unfortunately is certain's only when were supposed to forget that but apparently we do is trained out of us is what I was told the residence when the witnesses don't let don't let basic science and in physiology be trained out of you it into a surgical approach but when you create electronegative chars from a compression fracture calcium goes in and she get some healing without blood supply there is the rule in an osteopathic physician so it's a deal medical school because our team Dr. local state was the and and did manipulated felt good and I want to know how to do that I didn't even notice a difference on your will to be an orthopedic surgeon I said can I be an orthopedic surgeon because the he said absolutely yes that's about how I made that decision Okemos they had a deal medical school oh use was MD the last thing the world I wanted was a red diploma so state fans of loyalty I got a mistake know you was an easy decision I do know what the deal was but one of the owners of the time give me a book called the difference of genomics and you trying to teach me about the school just decided to go to and they said that when it comes to healing that the rule of the artery is supreme rule of the rings have the right to rule the artery is supreme but lymphatics have veto power I never heard this so that was the it's it's the foundation of a T still creation illustrate your stupid mess was created by the write a few stills and indeed he started the first year medical school in Kansas but he did it because he was unhappy with traditional medical approaches mobilization the joint instead of letting it get all swollen up seem to make the patient's function will be better and execute the plan by creating with: Patty pump people would read out all the way to push down her chest and he let it would create open up the alveoli to get people over dramatic pulmonary effusions by crating the sink on the lymphatic pump widget side of my chylomicrons on the lung tissue will with what we are doing it literally goes back to the foundations of what created a lot of modern medical sciences that without blood spiders and healing and that's true for orthopedic fractures is true for muscles tendon injuries we first started doing Bomer go back to that point on the trauma surgeon we were real sure that if we put bone marrow into a tendon that would make that was her fear with that we thought when we took Bomer Asper concentrate were real careful to make sure we we kept it in the in the osseous chart of the animals yet or you got it in the mentor factor was that there some really good studies published a bummer go back to the mid-90s there is a there was there was actually a really great study but here's a little they knew about what we're doing in Israel 1520 years ago there was a study on product complex possible tibial fractures which is a disaster if you have a tibial plateau the base you need if it's a complex fracture more than one particle shot six rights of Shatzer's fracture if you have a Shatzer six we used to call foobar that was our classification so we we with the Shatzer six what they did in Israel is they treated half of them with bone browser concentrate and half of them which is plating without moments were concentrated but interestingly because it was so early they added PRP to the bone restaurant concentrate thinking that it made work better and really all it does is dilute down so PRP the machine I have developed our tears I called them on sale define what you okay so the machine that we work with the machine I've been working with for for quite a while and have actually helped hopefully without taking real credit for anything but but knowing that that a been a significant part of innovation the development of their kit I'm actually patented the bone Ross Britt Catherine Catherine comes like it is my my design PRP is when you take whole blood and spin it down the machine to concentrate the growth factors get rid of some of the white cells and so you create was called platelet rich plasma write an platelet rich plasma is generated from the centrifugation of whole blood into the growth factors and platelets there needed to help get rid of inflammatory change a lot of times getting rid of the inflammatory change is the way to start the healing cycle inflammation gets in the way you put out the fire before you can grow new graphs right and so with inflammatory change if you turn the inflammation off ligaments tissue tendons heal faster with Bomer Esper concentrate what was it really understood as well in the 90s early 2000 and it is now hopefully is that bone marrow is still 97% whole blood so when we spend down bone marrow you're getting platelet rich plasma so your you are actually doing PRP yeah but you're doing PRP with stem cells yet so bone respite concentrate has the stem cells needed to help you heal and we know that those stem cells is when went on to hold your but while I was in school there wasn't such a thing as a musical social musical stem cell was named the music will stem cell 1995 by Dr. Arnie Case Western and Arnie Kaplan named a cell that previously in medicine what we do is we name cells based on the characteristics right so before it was musical stem cell was in a plastic undifferentiated employee potential adherent so that I liked it way better back in that day. I call it Mrs. a couple of them so well and and I doubt that there's terms equals some so most commonly know what they're talking about right so there's a CD marker a surface cell marker verse 600 different types of the cells based on their surface marker so we talked about was equal stem cells people think there's like one time no there someone that we don't really need help you heal the sum of the week need crucially to help you heal and we know the difference between these based on their CD markers we've actually quantitated what cells we want was told we don't want found a way to concentrate the cells want we do the spends so with bone marrow you're getting platelet rich plasma but you're getting the best platelet rich plasma because you're spending it from the most immature blood when you spend on whole blood you're getting PRP we are getting them no stem cells alright so let's clarify because it's a definition is really that what you're saying is that saying just stem cells doesn't mean just themselves how stem cells we have these mesenchymal stem cells which is the earliest of the stencil correct you guys have markers where you can determine the type of one that you know which ones do you need what was preferentially help you grow Cartledge what was professorship tendon what was preferentially grow fat right so fat stem cells that if you make if you make fat graph or stem so graph from fat those cells grow fat really well yeah we know what they don't grow really well's cartilage because there's a peptide called Sox nine this are secreted by the frustum so so when we quantitate stem cells I'm not interested in what those cells could become a me to say right now is this my pet. If you get a stem cell lecture in the first slide they show is this one so become these five types of cells in the differentiation and the building of the cells become these five is what makes somatic that's completely wrong that's true in the lab that's not how it works in the body what happens in the body is your set your body season injury it secretes cells starting with the humor putting stem cell which is the CD34 right so thrive for all the one second I got a good message where it says I can get a little stressed out I feel like I'm producing the wrong stem cells because I putting on weight change my stem cells to get rid of the adipose tissue and so sent there just go I got lost that CD something or other yeah you are way more so than I thought I would be as a orthopedist at the document bone bent may make straight actually know the medical school the running joke at time UNIX was the hardest residency to get into W had to become stupid right away take the smartest guys we need only to talk about when I mean I mean it when I say don't unlearn medicine right you the orthopedic resident was the hardest residency get to but you are expected to never even look at an EKG again if you walked into the surgery patient and you're like looking at their head or their EKG the attendings walking to go one the how you do know that you talk about this is Eric little people to sleep we have a certain dog like no dying right thing will similarly used to put my patients asleep so you feel like Dr. McKenna the CD six and 07 mesenchymal cells ready there's a joke that was that he found an orthopedist and the radiologist near going opposite direction of the code blue running away from the seed that what we used to say you know if you want if you have a dollar and you want to hide from a surgeon or from any kind of position there different places you put it right 100 from radiologist to tape to patient if you want to hide it if you want to hide it from orthopedic surgeon you put it in a book if you want to hide up a plastic surgeon we can hundred dollars from plastics are you going at a rabbit hole there went out on CD34 what were your talk was initiation healing right so with the CD34 it secretes a peptide for PG to PGE2 is is one of those keys and starting new vessel growth will the way to grow hair the way to have ED go away way to have stress urinary incontinence go away the way to have your wrinkles go away the way to have your fracture healed way to have your tendon remote you had me at wrinkles ED hair okay so so now we start out treating nonunion fractures right what we figure out pretty quick that if you put Bomer Asper concentrate it was it wasn't and is a great study published it was a limb salvage patient in Japan where 15 surgeries big proximal defect it's possible to be a and the the general surgeon was was livid at the orthopedic surgeons want to to put bone restaurant concentrate a fracture because he was proving that there was no vascularity to the way so to back door the orthopedic surgeon the supposed case report that a vascular surgeon does this arteriogram a lower extremity and it shows that there's literally no collateral flow around the fracture site is kid basically has a limb salvage frame on his leg this big proximal defect two years out multiple fascia economies nonmusical leg mask were really high needs needs annotation orthopedic surgeon is busy all the stuff about Mercer concentrate wants to inject bone marrow before he takes frame off eventually as a surgeon you become kind of emotionally connected to to your work right the guy does not want to cut the slide off the vascular surgeon try to prove needs come off he does arteriogram family Stone will it cut off so they have bone marrow injected in the fracture site at eight weeks they redo the arteriogram because the orthopedic surgeon the arterial was ordered by him but you start to see new bone kids have less pain from weight on lag you get new bone formation but they have this arteriogram set out to the shows no blood flow so they redo the arteriogram and there's all this collateral circulation on the fracture site so basically forever listening arteriogram is a study were it actually shows the arteries they put Diana vessel and shows up on x-ray and there is no blood flow going below over the fracture risers no.the die stops and there's a little bitty pattern this will trickle that I injected something into the bone not into the are not in the artery into the Perry steel sleeve the covering of the bone with the with the board there was no bone produces big bony defect there but Bomer us for concentrating their the way the bone roster concentrate work it didn't become bone which is what we thought what it does is it secretes the peptides and proteins necessary to bring new blood flow which allowed the bone to heal now there's a certain paragraphs that out there shows no collateral flow say that saying again that blood flow the rule of the artery is supreme the arteries and she still give him credit for that from the 1800s rule the arteries supreme lymphatics have veto power and that's a Dr. Graham from local states manipulation class, add on that if everything so swollen of blood flow can't get to it okay yeah so you guys injected this is the first time you saw that Ballmer answer because this can be a great segue will be go to the next half hour more we really do jump into the stem cell we got a little will try and keep it as it at a level that we can help people because I get a lot of back to let me make sure I'm being asked questions like it doesn't help with back yes to the health of the components were next on but on the great papers published read everyone says oh there's no literature published there's been 3500 papers published with my little Catherine the kit was designed for bummer aspirate 3500 papers published there's never been in toward report there's never been a tumor there's never been you can't reject your own bone marrow so this is the bone marrow aspirate injections you guys are doing this is the very beginning of Stansberry Reese is the only sell the US are allowed to cost himself you cannot you guys really literally were the first people playing around stems the trauma surgeon department: bone marrow yet not not knowing what we were doing we are using Bomer Asper concentrate for the fatty component of marrow that seem to help fracture so faster which is where microfracture surgery the knee all this comes in my mind from we would we do niece go there's an uncovered Carla Jerry would put a couple holes in the bone where in the bone the lesson bone marrow leak into the knee thinking that I hope the cards losing hills, microfracture doesn't work very well it creates a cartilaginous Good Cartilage but It Does Heal Something But My Thought Was When I Credit This Catheter If a Couple Drops of Bone Marrow Makes a Difference What Would What Would 60 ML Concentrated on the 45 That Was Where We Started with This During Joliet Harlan's Injuries at Work That's Where That Slow Beginning That's That's Only for Mia Do You Think I Do Think That Today's Bone Marrow in the Stem Cells Come from Bone Marrow Are Really Adapt to This Type of Healing to the Because That's Where We Release Our Red Blood Cells for Your Body Does Yeah Okay so This Is How Your Body Is Ready Right Right That You Were Not Were Inventing a New Way to Make Something He'll This Is How the Body Heals This Is Where Those You Know It This How God Does It Right He Sends the Cell There Is Secretes As Protein Vessel Grows You Get Your Butts by Tenant's Right This Is How It Works Already Is Just As We Get Older Or If You Get Your Lymphedema Swelling Only for the Lymphatic Flow Attacker Has Veto Power Is a Big Swollen Leg Give a Big Swollen Foot Good Books I Can't Get to It Right so It's All about Mobilizing Ankle Fracture and Also so That Blood Flow Can Get to It Because Official Swollen You Can't Put Any Extra Water in a Full Glass So New Water Can't Get to It That All Contaminated Dead Water Sits There yet to Pour the Glass out a Little Bit to Put Some New Healthy Water Back in That's How Bloodflow Work Which Is Why the Lymphedema and Lymphedema Is so Dangerous and Has It Has Absolute Control over Blood Flow to the to the Injured Tissue before We Dive Deep into Stem Cells Does PRP Work I Love You so Here's the Deal so Peer Peas like Boomer Light Okay so PRP Is Bone Marrow Announced Himself It's It's a Good Growth Component It's Great at It's a One-Time Shot Right so You When You Pop European Something You Get a One-Time Shot Growth Factors That Limits and Stops the Inflammatory Response from Cytokines You Undergo Tissue There's No Stem Cells You're Not Getting a Stem Cell Injection Which Is One of the Things He Pushes Me over the Edges Somewhere with I Went Got Stem Cells from My Blood Union You Got an Injection Visitor Was a Stem so That PRP Player Was Positive Now PRP Is Also a Bummer With Our Stem Cells in Bone Marrow so When You Say PRP Splenda If You Got It from Your Whole Blood It's Just Pure. If You Got Boom Roster Concentrate It's All the Best Components of European Stencils about That That Study Is Telling about So Here's How the Little so Even Though the They Publish Is Great Study Showing the Bonus Request Rate Help the Complex Factors Heal 50% Faster and All of Them Healed The Ones That Didn't Have Bone Marrow Not All of Them Healed and They Took Twice As Long Hill That Was Published 20 Years Ago Right with Bomer Asper Concentrate but Would They Knew so Little about Bomer Also Concentrate That They Spun down Whole Blood to In the Same Machine to Try to Give It More Volume Because We Thought the PRP Might Help the Bummer Work Better When in Actuality You're Already Getting PRP When You Spend Them Boomers of All We Were Doing Were Literally in a Study in Israel What They Were Just Alluding It's Just Laughing This Is Similar When You Say No You Think It's Them so You Got Blood You Are Talking about Fasting And I Had Some Friends and Maybe Overdone It on Adderall Little Bit like Three Days without Eating and Not Basing Radiology Headsets of Money I Was in Jail All Weekend and You Know There's a Great View We Talked about Intermittent Fasting There's a Great Study Published in Cell Metabolism Last Year That Showed That the That Are Correlated to Longevity in Mice And the the Mice Had the Longest Food Free Intervals Actually Increase Life Plaintiff Please Got a Hold of Our Dr. Wayne McKenna I Will Lose Track down the Same 10,000 This Is the Only 24 Hour Take Anywhere Platforms Dedicated to Food and Fun Clear Spoony Our Townhall.com, Where the Mother Report about to Be Released Atty. 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Nice Because I Think I Spent Some There with the Trying to Keep up with Dr. McKenna I Went through to Believe That I Write the Name That It It It but It Was Some System Select for I Was Looking See Who's behind Me but It But Literally We Been over 10,000 Cases in US Now so so Let Me Let Me Throw One out for You We Got a Message from Victoria That Says Can You Fix Bone on Bone Degenerative Discs so Here's the Short Answer in the You Know Me Enough Already by Now You Notice the In a Good Prospective Randomized Study of This Started with Just Pure P Because Again Bo Mastro Concentrate the Only Reason PRP Exists Is a Product Is Because We Couldn't Get Approval for Bone Marrow so We Were Spinning down Horseplay on the Equine Market You Could Sell PRP into People Pay More to Have Their Horse Injected My World Are Kid and That Horse Has Four Extremities and so Were Spinning on Whole Blood Created PRP While We're Waiting on the FDA to Approve Bone Marrow Whole Blood Is Exempt In Bone Marrow Was an and so Did Get the Validations on Bone Marrow and A Lot Of Pure P Was Created so There You Go so the Short Answer Is Enter Disco Injections Hemorrhoids Are Several Great Papers Are Republished and the Most Recent One at Two Years 92% of the Patients Had Inner Disco Injections on Degenerative Disc Disease And and I Would I Would Take It Even Step Farther and That in Our in Our Clinical Practice with over 300 Discs Now In That If You Have an Annular Tear Bring a Tear in the Covering of the Desk That Is a Primary Pain Generator It's a Bright Spot on the MRI Called Heisey Lesion Are High in Tinsel Science Is a Signal A Lot Of Radiologist Don't Now Failed to Mention That I Guess but If There's an Annular Tear High Intensity Signal within That within the Disc That Alone Is a Dramatic Pain Generator It Can Even Cause This Exact Same Symptoms As a Herniated Disc Would As Far As Lower Extremity Pain and Weakness Because the Nerve Crosses the Annular Tear in Your Tear Generate Substance P Generates the Cytokines Generates Exact Same Pain Response so Those Two Times of Radicular Pain Coming from the Back Leg and Hip Pain Radicular so That's the Old Folks Called Sciatica If It Can Be Pressure Because My Big Herniated Disc Neural Foraminal Stenosis Meeting the Canal Gets to Tie the Facets Your Baguette Hypertrophic Get Extra-Large They Were out so There's There's You Can Have Pressure Stenotic Pressure on Her Nerve Were Still Think It's Just Been Crushed That Causes Leg and Hip Pain and Back Pain Or You Can Have a Chemical Radiculopathy Created by a Tear in the Desk and It Feels the Same Patient until Difference One of Almost Everybody Else Is My Bulging Disc yet I Could Be There but but but Bulging to Start the Problem Because Here's What We Know Here's What's Already Published If Either MRIs and A Lot Of People Have No Back and Leg Pain A Lot Of Them Have Bulging This So How's It Happen How How Can Some People Smoking Just Hurts a Bit Was Bulging the Stone Right Now Is That If You Experience If You Have a Bulging Disc the Nonoperative Follow-Up At Two Years Is the Same As Opera Follow If You Don't Have Weakness If You Have Pain That You Can Tolerate and You Have Weakness in the Lower Extremity at Two Years Your Doom the Same As a People How Discectomy If You Don't Have Surgery What That's Published For Long Time so Were Not so If You Intrude a Free Fragment That Free Fragment Will Absorb Your Body Is Really Adept at Getting Rid of Items Extruded into the Canal and It Will Actually Absorb and and Get Rid of a Free Fragment As Long As Every Fragment Is Important so Much Pressure on the Nerve That It Decreases the Blood Supply from the Pressure Causes Weakness in the Lower Extremity from the Pressure the Nurse Stops Working You Have Leg Pain Your Little Foot Drop below Witnessing That Surgery You Have Weakness and You Start Paying What's Publish Now Is If We Inject That Disk the Annular Tear That Doesn't Go Away on Its Own Will Heal And Most of the Time 92% in a Study If the Annular Tear Heals The Back and Leg Pain Go Away 92 Persons 92% of the Playhouse That Had an Injection Didn't Go on to a Primary Fusion While Now Now Here's the Other Side of The Patients Had a Fusion at Five Years 30% of Them Had Two Surgeries So If You Have Fusion at One Level 30% Time of the Next Five Years Your Risk of Having a Second Surgery Either Refused at the Level above or below or Hardware Removal or Revision or You Get Extra Bone from the Fusion at the Re-Open up the Nerve Roots Have To Do in Reframing Autonomy Every Time You Do Surgery The Muscles of the Back Diablo So the Paravertebral Muscles the Muscle Mass so It Would When You Look at Some of Been for You It Will Look like Dinosaur Right That Little Thing the Bridge the Sticks up Familiar Back Check Is Called the Spinous Process The Muscles That Lay on Each Side of the Spinous Process Have To Be Moved Out Of the Way For You to Do a Back Surgery Weeks Make Fun of Spine Surgeons When I Was a Fellow in Trauma Because They Don't Have One Incision Is Midline Low Back Tonight We Had Learn All These Other Incisions and Sponsors in Certain Were More Online But What They Don't Learn That Trauma Surgeons Learn As We Make an Incision The Is Designed to Not Limit the Structure Function Blood Spire Nerve to the Muscle Were Moving In the Spine The Multiply the Small Muscle Each Side of That Bridge The Nerve and Vessel Come from Midland in the Back but Were Moving Away Is It When You Do an MRI of Someone's Back Is Set Back Surgery Initially The Muscles on Each Side of That Look like Filet Mignon That's Tenderloin Right That's the Backstrap Vassar Hunters Were Not Talking Tenderly Farewell Real Hungry so When You Move That Muscle out a Way And You Go Back and You Do an MRI That Back That Had Surgery and Other Fibers out And Having Pain Again And the Neurosurgeon Looks at the Films Goes While the Disc Looks Great the Nerve Roots Wide Open Usual Payments and That There Is No Reason for Your Backs on Well If You Look at the MRI Used To Look like Tenderloin Now Looks like Prime Bootleg like Strip Steak or or or Worse Just We Call White Muscle Syndrome Is Just Whole Thing Just Looks like Fatting a Filtration like Arby's Like Times like More like Crime-Ridden Right Is a Little Bit of Muscle Aches and Their Diagnosis Are You You Are Fasting for What You Are Armies Roy Rogers for My Generation Has To Follow-Up Question That She Was Asking How Many Injections Did That Take to Achieve the Most of Time Is One One Engine One Treatment One Injection We Do What We What We Do Is We Will You Be More Specific Rest of My My Problems Stem Cell Science As a Whole Is A Lot Of Times Patients Get in the Mix Were There Never Really Diagnosed and I Am a Firm Believer That You Can't Treat Something If You Didn't Diagnose It If I Don't Know What I'm Treating My Chances of Making It Go Away Are Pretty Slim and Entered and Unfortunately A Lot Of Stem Cell Injectors out There Don't Make the Effort to Actually Diagnose a Problem but to Get There Won't Inject Anything Well That's That That's Very Nonspecific Treatment in It, It Kinda Puts Your Your Results Risk If You Don't Know What You're Treating Because You Know What You Can Heal What You Can't Heal When You Do What We so What We Do We Were Doing Disc Injections I Want to Know That Was the Painter So There's an Old Test That Used To Be the Standard of Care before You Had a Fusion Now Because Fusions Are so Rampant in Our Country We've Gotten Away from More Specific Diagnosis on Making Sure That the Fusion Was Necessary And They Do It Based on MRI Criteria Well in My Creditors Number Specific Pushing of Three Just Look Really Bad on MRI and the Patient Have Any We Can Have Three Just Look Really Bad on MRI and Only One of Those Just Because in the Patient's Primary Pain You Don't Know so What You Do or What They Used To Do A Lot with Not A Lot Of People Doing More Is to Do a Discogram He Literally Put a Needle within the Desk of the Back While the Patient Is Asleep You Can Bring Them up in the Twilight a Little Bit And You Inject Dye End of the Disc to Increase Inner Disco Pressure And See If It Leaks so If the Die Has a Tear in the Diet Leaks out or Has a Really Disrupted Pattern and It Causes Can Coordinate Pain so There's Three Things to Make a Discogram Positive so Let Me Get This Straight When You Get a Look at It about MRI of Patient Hurts Arrived Upholding Those They Got This You Go to Each Desk and See so What You Do Is the Ones with the Worst Right Especially Ones Have an Annular Tear Will Put That Patient Heartlessly Will Put a Needle in and You Know At Least the This Is Different Than a Myelogram Oh Absolutely and Monograms Suspense and Die within the Canal Okay Right It Just Looks for Pressure Looks for Areas That Are Tight Right The Discogram Is Positive for Three Things Happen It Needs to Cause Pain so Find Injector Disc and It Is Nice Will Pattern within the District Jelly Doughnuts of the Discus Conquer Big Jelly Done It Right the Middle Part of That Is a Consistency like Crab The Outer Part of It Is Is Big Fibrotic Sick Ropey Type Tissue When You Tear the Rope the Crap, Leak out Put Some Pressure on Your Body, Scars That in So Did Not Generate a Big Free Fragment but It Generates a Smaller Canal And Monogram Should Discogram Injecting into the Desk When You Put Dye in the Middle of Jelly Doughnut It Doesn't Have a Disrupted Pattern Than Leak Everywhere And It Doesn't Cause Pain That's Not a Pathology Disc Even If It Looks Black on MRI Even If Looks like It's Herniated If I Injected Diet and You Have No Pain It's Negative Right A Lot Of Negative Discs Refuse That's What People Debts Are Not A Lot Of People Access That's What Happens When Some of the Better Okay so You Discovered Something That so Yesterday I Had a Friend Text Me Is like to Give You the Name of the Good Back Surgeon My Backs Hurting on Michael We Gotta like What Is Are You Looking This Is Something Is Chronic Pain Start Asking Questions like This Is a Rehab Things Is Whatever And His Response Was I've Been Cut Enough I'd Prefer to Avoid It and Then I Start Realizing Oh My Gosh Waiting There's A Lot Of Times Let's You Get the Diagnosis Right Because A Lot Of Pain Generators about The the Facet Joints Cause Pain the Muscle Deterioration after Surgery Cause a Secondary Pain Because That Muscle That We Kill That with Them All to Fly Muscle on Each Side of That Ridge Only Back As That Goes Away That's the Primary Posterior Support Of the Facet Joints on the Side and It Ends up Being the Primary Support for the SI Joints Both Sides the Back Your Head so All These People Have Fusions or Have a Laminectomy A Lot Of Mint up with about Five Years Later the Back Shirt Again the Facet Joints Hurt News We Injector Facets Newsom up Now You Not Some Soldier Nudged Themselves That This Is Traditional Medicine Right and Then the Is Is down in Their SI Just Now Getting SI Joint Actions All You Do Is Come Chasing the Rabbit of Deterioration of the Muscle Mass Was Killed at the Time of the Laminectomy so What We Do with That Patient Is You Take That the Dead Para Vertebral Muscles Just like We Would If You Have a Big Disrupted Tendon in 2013 We Published a Study Where 10 Similar Mass the Middle of Achilles We Can Reconstruct the Achilles I Injected Cells and It Completely Reformed the Most Amazing Part Is Rashly Publish the Study 11 Weeks Later Because She Had No Pain and Was Playing Tennis Again after Being Out Of the Sport for 10 Years At 32 Weeks Is English at 32 Weeks Comes Back over This Country Were Having Dinner And This Was Taken at My Girls Were Big Fans They Will She Agree to Their Suite We Go to Dinner And She Says You Know I'm Talking to My Bump Is Gone She Is a Bump My Mass Scott Some Color on the Floor Brio's in Southlake, Which My Daughters Is so but She's Right the Massacre Were Gone so Slick If You Want to Forget Arise about Your Attendance Where Your Tent Is Notably Lovely So Get MRI So Really Publish a Paper That Is 11 Weeks with Hilda's Disrupted Tensor Meter Master Been There for a Decade and Achilles Is the Mass You Keep Referring to Is Basically Start It's All Scarred Intendant like It Is like the Rope Comes Undone It's a Big Trade up Not Right Let Freight out Not Hurts In Some Mass and She Never Had It Fixed As Owner of a Promise or Result in the Promise It Because Because You Can't Promise Result When You're Fixing the Tenant That Have Very Good about Complications the Convocation Achilles Tendon Surgeries Was What Run down Reno's Career Right So We You Can't Make It Heal We Can But You Have To Do Less Not More Manufactures A Lot Of Move in Medicine Now to Go Away from Operative Intervention into Achilles Tendon's Disco in the Functional Racing Because the Results Are about Say As Far As Returns for an End and Pain Relief so I Muzzled a Muscle*Is Always Here This so So Many Physicians at the Hospital the Argument That Her Early 40s Try to Get out There and They Go and They Join a Rec Soccer League and That Hello There Achilles and I See Them Wounded Warriors Yeah Yeah I Know It's a It's a Common Injury Do You Operate on a Torn Achilles Depends on How Much Retraction There and How Cute It Is Sometimes Will Do Very Minimally Invasive Limited Approach to Canterbury Approximate Attendance Rapid Intergraph and Injected with Cells and Get Those Patients Moving Previously This Is a 6 to 12 Month Kind of Thing I Don't Even Keep People in a Brace on the First Couple Weeks Matter Fact and the Patient Were Talked about I Never Brace Are Kept in Regular Shoe Where at 32 Weeks When She Shows Back up with Normal Size Tenant We Redo the MRI You Can't Tell Which Sides Hurt so What We Didn't Know What Was in One Injection Want to Send Someone One Treatment And What We Know That Was You Part of My Hypothesis Right My Hypothesis Was I We Get Rid of the Inflammatory Tissue I'm to Help the Get Rid of Some of the Fibrotic Scarring Is Painful and I Would Help Give a Better Quality Tissue with the 10 Associate/What I Didn't Know That Those Cells Were Capable of Doing Is Completely Remodeling the Tendon so That 10 Similar Mass Remodeled When You Look at a MRI They Refer to It As Heterogeneity Meeting Lots of Signal Disorganize Fibers Or Homogeneity Which Is Nice Black Went Laminar Collagen Fibers Right Should Complete Homogeneity of the Tendon That We'd Injected In Exactly so the Tenant on or Opposite Sides 2.47 M around the 10 on the Side We'd Injected before Was 10 Now Is 2.4's and I Could Not of Done That Surgically Because Surgically I Opened It up I'll Try Make It the Same Size As It Was Sign But Part of the Healing As You Atrophy Or Hypertrophy, Scars and You so Bigger so You Not Without Surgery Her Body Was Able to Remodel That Tendon Exactly Same Size in the Side so We Actually Publish the Follow-Up As a Letter to the Editor of the First Journal Publish the 11 Week Follow-Up Showings Heal Because Even Though We Wait We Stop Short like When It Healed Real IK Look at Us Right Arts I Think Is a Good Time to Geek out Again so You're Saying You Reject This into This Not I Got Her Ultrasound I Take the Take the Needle Go All Way across the Tendon and Kind of Engine Is like I'm up, I Worked As a Kid Rice I Worked in the Oil Filled My Parents Tong Service on Landscaping I Work It Was a Light Now in Southlake for They Bring in Insta Garden Lay down on the Grass When I Was a Kid Get a Polygraph Yeah like Acre Out Of That Night We Broke a Little Pieces You You Sprig the Yard Greg Yeah so That's What We Do with the Tenant I'll Take That Big Tents in Your Mass I'll Take a 3 1/2 Inch Needle Ultrasound Are All Way across the Massacre of Injectors I Come Back so You're Injecting the Stem Cells As You Come Back Create a Pathway through the Tissue Become a Sprig the Yard with Me to Shoot It the Way I Think of It Is Your Comment Do You Have All His Dead Yard You're Trying to Bring Some Some More Grass Back to See Something's up to to so I Will Go around a Little More You Say to Create New Tissue so the Stem Cells Go Oh This Is an Achilles Bus Become Acutely Scout and Oh by the Way There's No Blood Spy Here and Oh by the Way This Is A Lot Of Fibrotic Tissue Here Is under A Lot Of Stress That's What I Want to Know How Does It Get Rid Of the Fibrotic Picture I Get That We've Got These the Collagen Fibers Are All There It's Disorganized How Much Blood Supply You're Literally Repopulating a Cellular Area With Tissue That Secretes the Peptides and Proteins Necessary Because Cellular Infiltration With New Blood Supply Micro Angiogenesis Okay Discloses Start Growing Blood Vessels and They Also Send out The Sit Idle Cravings That They Get Rid of the Fibroblasts Creating Modeling of Fibroblast Tissue While So It's Not Just That It's Growing This New Place It Smart Enough to Say We Need to Get Rid of This so That We Have Room We Need to Increase Blood Flow over Here so It's And Oh by the Way This Tendon Needs to Be 2.4 Cm around We Need to Remodel It and Shrink It down and We Didn't Do That And That's Published in Amontillado Studies like There's a Rotator Cuff Study This Is What Drives Me Pat Crazy Spelling Time so I Put My Mind May Listen and so I Don't Want to Use That Word Because She Will Be Horrified But What Drives Me Crazy Is It Would Go to Well There's No Studies There Is 10 Year Follow-Up in a Rotator Cuff Study So in 2000 to 2004 Doctrine Paris and Bill Horning Because We Didn't Have the Kid Approved the OSHA Use Dark It Was Our Tear Site To Craig Bomer Asper Concentrate and Inject into Rotator Cuff Repairs All of Patients with the Surgery for Fulton's Rotorcraft Prayer 45 with Cells 45 without The What's Published in Every Long-Term Rotator Cuff Study You Never Hear Your Strictures and Tell You This but Orthopedic Start Little Secret That Surgery Is a 30% Ferrite So Was Published in Every Long-Term Return Custody Is Only about 70% of Those Patients Get Better And Dr. Horning Was Destined in His Mind He Thought There's No Way That My Studies Look like That Because All Surgeons Think the Results Are Better Than They Are in My Experience That That Means You Done One This I Hate That Right in Medicine We Say Time after Time Means to My Experience As You Done One in My Series Means You Done Three so so Dr. Hori As I Do for You to Publish Now in Force or As a Long-Term Follow-Up Randomized Adjuster Series for Him Speaking at the Academy of the More Than All the Other Guys So so Filled He Was Sure His His Dowsing Be Better but in What He Did He They Did MRIs Part of the French Healthcare System So That It's All All That All Those Patients Are That They Don't Heal Your Still Liable for Them It's All One Pair Group Right Socialized Medicine so at Six Months on MRI The Ones That Didn't Have Bone Marrow Only 67% Were Healed Same As US 30% Failure Rate in the Ones Had Bone Roster Concentrate Hundred Percent So 45 Healed Six Months on MRI the Only Difference Maresca Concentrate Now 67% of the 45 Without Now in Paris We Could Never Do Seagrass in the US That Means Studies over Those 30 3% and Then He'll Need Reinjected Right Lawton Beres in Paris to Continue the Study for 10 More Years with Multiple MRIs At 10 Year Follow-Up Only 44% of the Patients It Didn't Have Cells Are Still Healed 87% of the Patients That That That Had Selzer's Aria While Twice As Much Twice As Much This Is Amazing like in the Nuns and Published in the Journal Shoulder and Elbow 2014 2014 This Is Going on And We've Got Both Objective And Subjective Data And the Functional Outcome That I Was to Say in the Outcomes and the Safety Data This Is Exactly like What We're Talking about before in the Cannabidiol Industry the Photo by Not All That Doesn't Exist Right like There's No Reason about the Stem Cells Lookup Doesn't Work My God Running Other Than Tenure Follow What You Want Every so Here's the Real Issue Those Were All Patients Were Taken to Surgery for Full Thickness Tears What about the Patient with the Parcel to Stare Yet That Were Operating on If They Don't Need a Decompression That Has Some Big's Purpose Round Cough Most of Our Patients We Inject under Ultrasound and It Gets Better Go Away Rights Only Take This Opportunity to Look Because I'm Getting Questions about Where Will Number One One That Gets Pumped up a Couple Times In in Your Clinic to Get Successor Insurance for the Surgery Part Sure Yeah so That the Traditional Pretty Certain Still I Still Do 50 Surgeries a Month and See for Her Patient and I Have a PA and Nurse Practitioner and so Matter Fact I Still Think Medicare Because I Studied Totally but Does Insurance Pay for the Stencil Insurance Does Not Pay For The Stem Cell Injection Pump Test and in Honor That If It's a Non-Surgical Patient It Was Someone That Just Want Stem Cells Injected the Cough Interests and Pay Any Part If I'm Doing Stem Cells at the Time Your Cuff Repair Lot Size You Get the Bone Marrow's Kind of Part of the Surgery Itself Okay so I Know That You're an Orthopedist but Can As We Go Head to Toes Were Closing down This Where Can Stem Cell Help When You Start Looking in the Body Here's the Cool Part So I Have a Business Partner That's Way Smarmy And Way More Money and Been Doing for Them and Made Way More Money Than I'll Ever Not Make an He Followed Me and Listen to What We're Doing for Years of Taking His Kid Plays Kansas Basketball Program Taking Care Of A Lot Of Athletes That Are Personal Friends There Is Nothing Care Of His Wife and His Kids Brian Is a You If You Can If You Can What about Hair and Face and in All These Other Problems Because the PRP Product That We Help Create Right Is Used for Her Growth for 10 Years There's a Book Actually Called the O Shot Is Published on Injecting the Perry Reese Robin Jensen's on That. I Guess You Know so Charles Runnels The Guide Is Uses Arc at the Pier Picket Forth Your Site and Just Uses PRP No Stem Cells It Works But If You Put Stem Cells. Urethral Add to Your Stress Your Account Is Still Gone Comparative Viruslike Matter Fact We've Injected Patients Now for the First Session Your Kindness That Had Three Bladder Slings Still Had Stress Urinary Incontinence You Pair Urethral Injection Injector Control Tissue Supervisor Wall Anorgasmia Goes Away Women Become Sexually Mature Again As Far As There Is Orgasmic Response and the Stress Your Kindness Go Away Than Cough Laughter Sees Go to Movie ED Was Published in 2009 How Would You Write That Coastal Basically Anywhere in the Box Anywhere That Has a Blood Supply Problem or Failure of the Tissue There's A Lot Of Applications in the VA Problem Have You Done It Yet You Catch a Glimpse of Yourself in the Mirror I'm I'm One of Those People You Don't Want to See Naked IBM Most of Us but I Mean You Look and You're Going to Die I Don't Get Whatever All It's Horrible It's Doc Townsend and Brad Staggs to Tell You about a Different Way to Shed Those Pounds This Is Brand-New Technically Been around for a Couple Years or so It Was Based on Research from the University Of California That Said There Is a Molecule Called OEA That's Found Naturally in Your Body Produces It in the Mediterranean Diet That When Taken in Concentrated Amounts It Will Actually Make You Feel Fuller and Boost Your Metabolism I Lost about 10 Pounds so Far Is Any Amazing Ballet School Company Said We Can Take This to Market to Make This Great Product Will Help You It's Called Reviews on Our IDU Zone.com Our IDU Zone.com Brad's Work That Were Comrades Work for Me Countless Other People Go to Read You Zone.com and Try Today You're Gonna Love It Read You Zone.com Remember That Our IDU Zone.com Take the Pain Out Of Ordering Your Diabetic Testing Supplies with Diet Thrive Diatribe Ships the Testing Supplies You Need Directly to You When You Need Them Best of All with Plans Starting As Low As Eight Dollars a Month Diatribe Is Probably Going to Cost You Less Than What You're Paying Today Diatribe Is so Convinced That You Love Their Service They're Offering Your First Month of Supplies Three Simply Type the Kodak DOC and Check out Diet Thrive.com That's DIA Thrive.com Are You Tired of High Cable TV Rates Sign up for Dish Today and Get a $500 Bonus Offer While Supplies Last Loss Locking Your Price for Two Years Guaranteed Call All-American – Your Dish Authorized Retailer Now 800-570-6630 800-570-6630 – 800-570-6630 Offers Required Radical Negation 20 from Early Termination Fee Any Auto Restrictions Apply Call for Details Like Back in the Last Half Hour I Am Not Going to Waste A Lot Of Time at All on Intros We Are Going to Start off Randy Had to Question Generate Your Nass Weight Is the Applications and so Basically What I Was Asking You What Different Places Could Be in Use at a Place with His Blood Supply and Then I Remember When I Was Watching the Joe Rogan Show With Your Business Partner O'Neill Riordan You Guys Had a Clinic in Panama and Then They Were Talking Disease State so Write Me Were Not Saying Anything with You Step on the If They Are Not Recommending It but What Diseases Have They Done Especially in Panama so Now Is Really Good and in Mills PhD Clinical Physician So He Doesn't Have That Patient Care Response When You State so That It Is a Clinical Professional He Designed a Process That in Panama for Their Ministration of IV Cells And the Best Use of IV Cells like We Talked about before It's about What They Secrete so Autoimmune Disorders Rheumatoid Arthritis MS Autism I Think No Published a Series Recently of 2000 or 2500 MS Patients Have No Brain and Spinal Cord Lesions Are More a Couple Years out There Some Fairly Famous Local MS Patients That Were Pretty Well Disabled in a Golf Cart in Your Wheelchair and Are Run around Silence Coaching Football Again You Know When Window High V Injection from IV Therapy Letting These Letting the Elves Get Autos in the Pulmonary Pre-, Write It I Think Neil's Protocols Are like 120 Million Cells 21 Cells per Docents Five Injections Improve Several Days Is Been Incredibly Adept at Treating Autoimmune Disorders Another Some of These Disorders That You Have To Continue to Treat Me a One-Time Treatment.You'll Burn through Those Cells Eventually in Those Cells Are Going to Give You All New Cellular Volume so You Have To Get Some of Those Has To Be Retreated Especially with like Rheumatoid or or Some of the More Aggressive like a Pony Fibrosis Is Treated There's Actually Okay on Us a Heart Hospital in the Bahamas Is Been Treating Heart Failure for a Decade This Stem Cell with with Their Using Different Cell Dyspnea Uses Culture Cells from the Umbilical Cord and the Words Jolly in Okay Honest on the Bahamas Currently What They're Doing Is Retaking Cons of the Construct from Fat Called SPF Digesting the Tissue Culturing Themselves and Injecting Them IV and Caring Heart Failure the Heart First Procured for a Long Time so There's a Study Heart Failure Has Been Cured for a Long Time to Decide and I Am Going to Your Clinic about Three Years Ago We Tried to Stop by for a Visit and yet You Are Holding in Your Hand The the Increase in Ejection Fraction Specifically to to CHF so so There's There's Actually a Study Published Closer Meiosis Is a Rat Study on Harvard 10 Years Ago 15 Years Ago They Took Cardiac Failure That There Was Induced Chemically in Mice Connected the Vascular System to a Non-Disease Mass The Hartford So the Way Rohit Said That Again They Connected That Faster Today so Two Mice Together a Little Yes Colson Meiosis Right so Though Disease Very Pleasant Way to Say What You Do Some Frankenstein Nesting Is Here's the Weight Here's the Here's the Problem Here's What Has To Happen the Mice That Didn't Have the Disease Has To Be Able to Sense the Heart Failure and Still Be Healthy Enough to Secrete the Cells Necessary to Treat the Heart Failure I like That New Sand That You Charge Your Phone Goes on As Exact Right so That's on the Movie Human Centipede Started so the Disease Madison Was Unable to Create the Right Cells to Treat His Heart I Just Want to Say That I Had an over under How Many Episodes We Would Get in until Eric Would Bring up the Movie Human Sentiments Exactly What Happened When We Reduce Again Will Talk about Zombies and Said But That the Studies Published on Congressman's and at the Time Not Did You Know Why the Heart Failure When Weight Now We've Actually Isolated Peptides and Proteins Necessary That Were Secreted To Make Her Figure a Way That There Is a My Study Done on Your Jaw Talk about Just One Beneficial Effect of Stem Cells That That's Way Underappreciated It's the Prevention and of Infection and Treatment Of Infected Wounds the There Is a Study Done Out Of San Francisco Where They Took Mice in Iatrogenic Lee and Created Six Different Types of Nosocomial Pneumonia What You Would Get the Hospital Right They Did Treat the Mice with Antibiotics They Took Bone RESPA Concentrate Made It As a As a Slurry Treated It with the Spray Pulmonary Spray and Cured All the Pneumonia in All Six Different Types of Mice Then Say They Took the Alveolar They Sacrifice the Mice Take the Alveolar Washings and Could Not Culture out the Bacteria on Everywhere Washings There's a Peptide Canelo 37 That Is Secreted by the Cells from Bone Marrow That Is Extremely Bactericidal and and Helps Modulate T Cell Function so Stencils Can We Do Three Things Right All the Stuff You're out There Because I I Have a Friend Who's a Is Bodybuilder Peptide Expert We Got to Talking That A Lot Of the in the Bodybuilding Community for Using Peptide so That Way Your IDs Are We Talking Different Peptides Can I Just Take the CHF Peptide and for That's That's That That's That That's the the Big Intellectual Property Grab Right Now Writer Will Try to Pat a Peptide My Feet My Theory on That Is You Will Listen to the Orchestra or Trombone You Know You Have a Full Spectrum Are Nicely Damaged County That Had a Stem so I Don't Have To Tell the Cell What Peptide to Produce No Oh Yeah so If I Put the If I Concentrate the Cells and Put Them Where They Go Your Body Knows What It Needs It's the Difference between You If You're Hungry Going to 7-Eleven Are Going to Central Market Where You Can Have the Most Choices I Think When You Start Isolating Different Peptides and Proteins Give to People You're Limiting What the Body Is Really Capable of or What It May Need Because It May Need Some of the Other Cofactors in There She Wanted to Have Central Market of Choice Is Not Not 7-Eleven Ryan Andrade and Sally I Think That's I Think That's Crucial so You've Talked about Your Experience in and Making Sure That People Get the Right Stem Cells They Can Show That a Diagnosis Is Important Making Certain That People Know That Did You Calibrate Different Diseases What Is It That You Feel the Need Next Generation As You Mentioned Exit Sounds as i think the way to differentiate yeah so that we get rid of some of the guys think and you know god bless dr. flick i know how hard it is like living as a physician it never i'm not don't rocks at all because the doctor told stuff and in they don't know right but most would been injected out there called stem cell is completely acellular and has no stem cells in it and for the most part and holograph growth factors the most popular amniotic draft on the market right now has between 50 and 150 pg of pge2 pge2's that one compound will talk about that helps drive initial formation of new blood spot and that company is publicly traded and down for about $12 a share about for so should be too hard for one and no one talk about hopefully but the graph is dr. riordan i design we got that graft and injectable amulet up to about 800 pg pg what is the what of this other company that that the stock dropped what was it only picograms that they have about anywhere from 5250 so there's not even really good standardization right so with different different doses we get somewhere between 50 pg hundred 50 pg the graph immunotherapies of the coming which started back today got about 800 pg pg to the reason for known as falling out we were not in the same clinic anymore is because a new graph came out as as the as the physician you're the one that actually has to treat patient i'm not using the graph that has my name on the new graph company had a great great mind has about 3200 pg pg 232 hunt while you guys at 800 yeah and so emetics that what what what dissent the medics that are converting these the original the large micrograph is somewhere between 1550 let me just me not to go down this rabbit hole but i'm impressed by this you said that the reason why neil and i no longer business partners is because this one thing basically somebody came out with a superior product and your names on the other one yeah yeah and it's unfortunate for me right because financially you know it would make sense it's good it's can affect the friendship that you have it can affect the business and it's going to meet many i'll say this almost all drs. i know do not have that level of humility to go my name is on this one but while good job guys start to start treating people the right way you know what my life is so uncomplicated just do the right thing i i i literally i look i'm not i will always make most decisions my personal life i'm not a mass right but when it comes to taking care of patients i've always been laser focused on making sure i do the right thing and and try to put what's in their best interest first in their trusting me i felt very mid-evil about that doctor-patient relationship with her patients asleep it's like you're in night with the sword standing by the bed ready to smoke anyone ready to hurt him write or mean any and you're there only protectors are trusting you to put themselves in a completely flaccid a sleep state and counting on the fact that you're going to make them better when they wake up and and you may have to wake up derek has to take care of it for you that that oath we took still you pete's diesel take that right there in their loudest businessmen as a physician you really you really can't swing that there there's a lot there's a lot of way better business people medicine me but i don't the i don't think there's a lot of people to work as hard to hone their surgical skills and decision-making as i try to make it patient specific when i take care of do you feel like that test and sell nomenclature will change more towards the exit so my ass so here's what were trying to do okay because i think that's important set the good products apart from the bad products but i always use analogies that you would never pay kobe beef prices for him but people are in stem cells because you don't know if it's kobe beat their hamburger but the way to tell is we need to start talking about what's in it or what's produced by it which is x assumes the reason the stem cell work for the way a stem cell works is excess almost secretion growth factors so we talk about growth factor secretions and quantifying how much growth factors is how much growth factors could what is between bowman prp right pure peas one-time shot growth factors boomers injection of cells once our growth factors but those cells continue to produce growth factors for 16 to 20 weeks lots of prp shots if you give bummer injection not want because of softer metabolic act with amniotic tissue added to it so as a tissue graph now we have day one cells so if i use your bone marrow your bone marrow seen uv light radiation everything you've ever not all your stress has had an effect on your quality or bone marrow immunodeficiency day one tissue not stupid but it's really strong produces a lot of stuff when and what to do with it your bone marrow is the director of the play it can be you know a movie and warehouse with five guys that everyone dies rick and bea lawrence of arabia you know it hundred thousand people in the cast the larger the cast of characters the more this possible and that's what amnion does he give you all the good the analogies all time as if if you're moving you want a guy like me back in the truck because i'll turn the soap upside down up at the teat table on the floor i'll get everything one truck but i would much a 17-year-old helping fellow furniture out but as they stack the truck to make five trips right bone marrow stacks the truck amnion delivered you up real high concentration of growth vessel next yet she lost her there for second so are you saying that the amniotic origin of these cells is the superior one or the bone and growth factor number only right so when it comes down to just pure amount of exorcisms right at the beginning your boomers, limited sometimes if your 70 i've you had radiation therapy you smoked ever if you drink a lot notes of your cells hello i looked at eric with the involvement i want to let you know so maybe responsible for my lime affinity i shall be both domino dragon just addicted the lines the but all that has an effect right h has in fact so you do not have as many cells were born with so do you guys mix the two is what i'm getting now that would be that that the fda would hate the wording on that i will inject the two in the same location right so use your bone marrow to get all the initiation the healing started because it's the smart cell and it's the stem cell right afforded a stem cell injections bone marrow if i'm using ambien on i don't talk about is the stem cell injections growth factors it's in amniotic tissue graft because that's the way the fda says asked where i'm injecting it amniotic tissue graft into an injury now we've used amniotic tissue since 1910 severe marconi invented the radios dear the first amniotic tissue is pipe paper published in medicine for burns and corneas it was dad right but help burn tillman help current corneas hill now we have to kill amnion we can sterilize it this were genetic testing scum is so cool because now you do a genetic swab the mom baby membrane we know that that graph doesn't have the gene for cancer someday let alone any disease now answer genetic testing made it where i can take this graft not have to radiate it not to kill it i can freeze it on the -80 i can make sure it's sterile we wait for the cultures your back the way to test contamination graph is endotoxin's right so sterile water has .050 indo toxins verse 2.054 desk qualified to sterile our graph is .050 so it's more sterile sterile water but is live healthy tissue that your body cannot have an allergic reaction to amy and i was completely immune privileged it's what protects mommy baby from each other i is really good at that but also secretes all the growth factors necessary to help you become a baby now we don't want baby don't eat anything fetal i need maternal so the amniotic membrane the placenta is maternal tissue everything that comes out of mommy after the baby those are the cells i need to help you feel good i want you to turn into whether some studies out there were they took maternal and fetal stem cells injected back engagement teeth out of it right at terry toma wearily at tumor formation. noticing wasn't that far off about growing amount of the site are fay well mel gibson is a big fan rhizobia when mel went on joe rogan and told him i cares back knowing he wean so not speaking out turn to say that when he went on rogan and said you know richard is back southlake that you know we must've done something for him and he had three of them hit it significant issues alright so now this is a perfect time to sit there and get into why doing this since everywhere st is an issue right well yeah and it's the fda is a huge issue because of the way the drug company fda paradigm works where the only country where you spend $5 million to get a job to make 60,000 year where the farm income from in 2008 on the 2000 and 2008 some politically happen where the fda was lesson 20% the size it is today and it didn't really govern tissue graph fat taking stromal vascular fraction digesting it culturing it was a big deal for that those were we could get the stem cells and they were not the best stumps on the world bomber wasn't really regulated so it was of a stumps on the world is readily available when you how to get it and digesting was against the law and now digestion of the tissue is qualified is more than minimally manipulative the sounds and saw we can't culture we can't expand that as this is a subset by itself is a great graph as you grow it sure if you get a lot more cells you can be bible but it's not good just with the moment it didn't do much it's pretty inert so is that was the future going to go with the fda in recognition of the changing environment right we have to make it where every congressman and senators put in place by drug company is that was holding back i mean because i think it's holding you know what when we had was a guesstimate that title policy loi joint joy when we had joy on it's a lot of misinformation basically it's old archaic laws that carried over but still listed hampers this schedule one indwelling love misinformation and i was i would love to think that but i will tell you that when when 90% of google's ad revenue comes from viagra and cialis and statins and humira next he destroys your immune system you if you if we publish a paper and you don't know where to put the, your not find it and it's not artificial moving us down the ladder you have to feel like that you when a drug company puts something out its way at the top of the food chain even if you do a stem cell product same way with him and cbd if they make it a drug it's good you know it'll get through it really quick if you if it's homeopathic or you can grow in your backyard also needs class i drug use companies to pay people go help i mean there's an old commercials rope wins wars the federal government during the world war was paying farmers stop growing corn and soy and grow him because we needed ropes rights when more is right and you somehow with prohibition we got tied into that and then when they repelled it it didn't get repelled by it but it just got bundled in with alcohol during prohibition that's what happened but the legalities of the regulatory part of it is because that's about when drug company started to get popular medical school was started by the rothschild 20 by the way on the first row company so they had to teach us how to write their drug so i'm you know it's not a conspiracy but well well i mean i'm sitting here thinking about somebody if someone is listening to this in a wheelchair with ms looking at a drug it's costing 10,000 a month the average cost of an ms patient us attorney thousand year mills treated a mass in panama for a decade and and has complete resolution of a lot of patients and if you go to's patients for ethical use of stem cells. a lot of support groups out there on the internet for ms and for stem cell use all patients and those treated at the clinic right so cool when things like this open up and allows people like the article that i brought up with her were culturing the stem cells in cbd and in polyphenols then the science can it start expanding on itself then we can start looking at this and i get depressed a little bit because the science is so were already out there it's so hard to find a clinical study on the use of biomass were concentrate in any part of the body was laterally written the book the o shot by trout by dr. runnels was just using prp published decades ago hair growth the prp decade ago the vampire facelift with prp decade ago now with bomer astrakhan street amnion you can always you know it up see any part of quite a bit ed were talking video erectile dysfunction in 2009 a paper was published in 12 out of 12 males 70 years old that didn't respond orals status post prostatectomy bone marrow 60 ml condensed down to 63 ml neat side of the corpus cover know some mother and it doesn't hurt some some giant painful shot it's a like a skin prick not not to be you can say is skin prickly can run so were talking to a pretty pain fairly painless injection 10 almost 12 miles at two years to have spontaneous erections now so that was the cure for ed and status post prostatectomy males without drugs and one time treatment with two-year follow-up with zero side effects and that was seven-year-old bone marrow post radiation not the best cells ever right yeah let's clarify the published in the journal urology i want i want to see some i got some pretty tough patient i could see some guys on the pounded femur bone there are more common to so you need it you need to go to somebody you can trust to because you had mentioned also in the past and i've even heard from people who said well i've had stem cells injected and anyhow it is you didn't word and it turns out that they use local yeah okay so yeah this might just another pet peeve right have unfortunate i guess i have a lot of growing a growing fortitude and growing fortress of of of pet peeves and you can watch it all day if you watch them sounds excellent internet go to youtube the the toxic dose of local anesthetic epinephrine or corticosteroids all corticosteroids triamcinolone dexamethasone kenalog bupivacaine marcaine lidocaine epi the amount that safe on a stem cell injection is zero so what is it due to the census july schism and destroys the soul so you destroy my contact right so so in culture none of the cells make the first hour if you had a drop of lidocaine agriculture platter right so when you see someone get a stem cell injection code" and they and they had light lidocaine local anesthetic or any steroid in the knee you kill everything so you turned what could've been a stem cell injection into some growth factors me know that you don't unravel all the proteins without injection we destroy all the souls so you're no longer getting a stumps on section it just goes back to no differentiated cells right so you may make you little bit better what is not to grow tissue younger group cartilage from that trip because there's no cells you want given a stem cell injection you were given a stem cell injection right up until you put local anesthetic or starwood around it and it kills everything do you see the future of this as being a mix between the amniotic and the person in the patient's own bone marrow i think the the what well that's was legal i said so right now that that's all we have that's was legal states and we do and we would never culture bone marrow because you can you can grow tumors if you get about five cell passes with bone roster concentrate you will sell your expansion you can get some some mutagenic and component about that you don't get with postnatal tissue by the way is you culturally expand postnatal tissue you don't have mutagenic potential or for meaning to form a tumor cancer that you do with with the bomer us were concentrate no i think that the future would be a graph created from the umbilical to that also has the stromal tissue there's a stout there's a cell stem cell now that when we were in medical school was system so it was an undifferentiated mononuclear endothelial cell it's in every category but it's actually the most numerous steps only humors in the human body as in every capillary bed you in the social parasite and a parasite wasn't a parasite five years you a parasite is essential not to sell is the first cell to see a wound missive for cell to drive growth factors answer for cell because ahima politico cd34 so to come in the doing the parasite if we could turn a graph from umbilical tissue that involve that so that we could culturally expand on site you can make a graph from umbilical tissue and that tissue yeah so the umbilical the me on the lining of the umbilical cord is out it's a covering the stromal tissue" is three vessels the what's being done right now most places in the world is from wharton's jelly's the jelly around the street vessels us were systems stem cells not the best there is the supreme club record but was a custom solar corp. cord was undifferentiated but it's good little stem cells and stem cells in the stromal tissue the perivascular tissue lining the collagen fibers that's where the stem cells are trapped is where a lot of confusion comes in because ivan had a friend that actually i think he interviewed the question was brought up in there's so much confusion with everything since cord blood that's going on and son note court but look i have court would start small through my daughter's apartment in the study about my life and as of the mass i was €22.76-year-old so i have all the court what and in 2008 the us government said they own it so i still pay the storage fees on it grown a lot access to it unless they are treated and if my kids have an fda approved diagnosis for the use of cultured and expanded cord blood will give some of that's me let me treat the kid so if there's three different types of leukemia right now they're completely curable give cordless or your kid your kidder first recent wing gets one of those times leukemia 200% curable from the court what you have stored and that's all the fda will let you treat but if you have osteoarthritis that he gets off your thrust is me if i could take some cord blood culture the tissue create the cells in a minute and to make them when they would matter from the umbilical tissue i can just use that to your knee awesome but it's a legal while that is a lot and depressing yeah it is literally thinking people with heart failure people you know without let me ask for your study – he took the cells and they were squirting in the pericardium is different study but in my service gordon pericardium of the mouse to cure heart failure it worked but they couldn't when they when they kill the mice there was none of the cells within the heart how to cure heart failure yeah so then the gartner vascular still cured her fair then but they couldn't get the cells in the heart then he took injected when the calf of the mice where they could move is took care of the heart failure quick question doesn't help the brain alzheimer's 32nd degeneration sure and i didn't think it would be a really good way problem is getting those cells pass the blood brain barrier and no way to do that would be as a nasal spray of growth factors on the crib form plate with you laying down the trees like a postconcussion syndrome that may or may not of been done with significant success but realizing the us request weight come back and check out stem ola heart dr. whately handout materials so you know this this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun clear spoony rembrandt (you can try for free right now.com's place you'll be amazed at how easy battle makes your first lesson in the language of your choice, the barbara barbara.com now be abb.com with the quicksilver card capital one you are an unlimited 1.5% cashback on every purchase unlimited on anyway you say it unlimited 1.5 distinct aspect of every purchase just sound capital one thing you want what's in your wallet capital one bank usa na
Joy serves as the Regulatory Officer & Industry Liaison for Elixinol (Elixinol specializes in premium hemp products and extracts, noted for purity & quality). Hear about Joy's experience with hemp policy as a federal and state resource for the respective law makers. She has ben a part of the hemp advancement for over 25 years.
Joy discusses her crazy experience with the secret service, the evolution of the federal opinions of hemp, the active challenges of the DEA, and where complicated states such as Texas are in the process for better defined laws regarding hemp.
Also, in the first half hour, Ken and Eric talk about plane trouble and why food may taste worse when at high elevations and around loud noises.
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Texas HB 1325
https://legiscan.com/TX/bill/HB1325/2019
James Carroll serves as the CEO and an expert & ambassador of photobiomodulation (PBM) the world over. Why is this well researched and safe & proven method to decrease inflammation and shorten healing time not better known? James explains his association with Harvard medical school and how he is training the world's newest health care practitioners how to better care for their patients non-invasively. Applications for pain, athletic injuries, CTE, PTSD, dental procedures (James discusses his tooth extraction with no numbing agent!), macular degeneration, wound healing, sciatic pain, analgesic applications and more...
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All right it is time for the gadget project here with your host Dr. Kenneth Brown nine Eric Rieger this is episode number five episode number five is a big one because now we have another episode we can be found on over to submit iTunes and the other a platform it's where everybody has to start somewhere you gotta start somewhere and I think that we got a pretty good start we got some pretty incredible gas that is no joke I mean the feedback fortunately and thanks to everyone who's been watching and listening and sharing sharing obviously helps us spread the platform but certainly appreciate it also big shout out to the other spoony host Chef Patrick the cowboy chuckwagon I mean everybody else who's been kicking and for helping spread the word even the partners and our sister station across the road mojo mojo 5.0 mojo 5.0 absolutely we got to show some love this is exciting everybody try to get this station this digital station off the ground chef Patrick is he is living it and you don't today in the booth being our producer again this guy works overtime every day vacation rather everyday vacation every day can be a vacation if you can improve your quality life and that's what this whole show is all about sent yes absolutely I'm so excited about the show we got somebody really cool a great speaker scientist James Carroll of four laser something that I know nothing about something I bet most people know nothing about but I know how that feels when we started looking into bacterial overgrowth see below when nobody else is talking about it people would look at me there confused this is why this show got check radio check your ego at the door any things on the table to learn and world to learn together that's is this is what so excited about today show and is no joke so for everyone else who's who's joining today and one thank you number two at James Carol's complete different this is someone is going introduce something that really to me it was introduced to me by my by my wife she was the one he said have you ever heard of photo by modulation and I looked at her and I said no I haven't but really because of the mindset of a living doing a KB in the healthfully done even before it KBS research without trying to heal on and on we've always wanted to remain open if you have something show me how works to little bit about it and as I began to learn a lot more about photo by modulation indoor laser it was more than impressive it is kind of just captivated me yeah those of us in the industry Eric called PBM so so when you brought it up to me we are actually working and you like yeah hey my wife's got this new photo bio modulation laser at her health clinic correct and in his eye, what that is and we started looking we had little break in patients and I went holy cow there is some serious data on this it's and it's it's it's date it's not just something new later then edit a while yeah it's one of those things I like wait a minute if this is true let's find the guy who owns this company and you did and goodness he he travels all the time this is insane so his time is very valuable so this is going to be an incredible episode just so you know we are in episode five and we have an international guest James Carroll hails from London that's right I was just talking to only spend 10 days in the UK were his home is 10 days in the United States within 10 days traveling the world that is a tough life you are charged a Patrick I was impressed how well he speaks English from out of the country and out, wild, wild I'm you know what I'm really looking forward to that British sense of humor all of it yeah I mean it's it's just like it is here in Texas they speak of guess I do want to bring this up when I went to clinic and people at her show with Mark Lisa Hatch feedback patients that have overcome cancer patients that love the idea that he overcame cancer and then gave back that story was pretty incredible and I want to thank Embry for listening and if you didn't listen to it go back and check it out because it is a story of accomplishment story of survival and he did a great job telling he really did do a good job telling on top of that we received well several email not just in terms of no thanks for having Mark on but we got share a couple with them with those with you yesterday and it was that I've overcome cancer and I'm trying to find new things to do to get back I'm suffering from cancer currently and hearing someone like Mark gave me hope we had some others who just were simply how do I get involved with Raquel's wings for life which is exactly what Mark's charity isn't and they they take people just to recap a take people from one end of taxes and give them opportunities to have safe travel to a large cancer treatment facility such as MD Anderson or up in Tulsa Oklahoma and I were free for free no charge to the cost to the customer to the patient whatsoever and and deliver them safely so they get treatment and not return home as it were the cool things about that as we did talk about the fact that the the pilot as a cancer survivor so the people that he's taking are terrified yet have questions and he could tell them the story hang in there working trying do this and sometimes he would drop people off you wouldn't bring them back and that happens I'm a doctor we see things happen all the time but the right frame of mind the willingness to keep going sometimes you can overcome without question and he does know that he can the great thing about Mark Aziz he's belly working on he soon to become a well-known public speaker that being said he's he's got the anecdotal stories to the make them feel comfortable like a squeaky butt cheeks and if you missed it go back to get check radio.com to be directed to the direct RSS feed on our page were improving all the time but right now you can go back to the episode where Mark was and listen to it or you can check out the YouTube channel spooning radio or get check project will take you exclusively to get your project episodes awesome speaking of improving all the time we always like to start the show something personal we do so last week I think I know I brought up my my children my son Lucas was playing a large tournament called the Easter bolts a national tournament and right after the show it was broadcast live and we were able to watch it as a group it was really cool to watch my son the inner getting second in singles very impressive big tournament and actually got gold in double source no really proud of them for that then he went immediately there he's been playing in this IETF now why is that relevant because I'm a single dad this holy cow it's hard all props to any single parent out there that tries to work and still managed to pick up the kids get into the things it is kicking my ass oh my gosh it's hard trying to work in be there at the right time and everything in the so props to everyone that's out there is a single parent or even temporary if your children are often doing stuff but it is I have a holy respect for that holy respect I know that whenever I travel and I do it without without Marie and I come back home the first thing you should do is make certain that they get an opportunity to relax because they've been hard at it making your travel possible and if you just want peace and householders make sensitive to the one advantage of that is that we do just a little time in the last week we did talk about Lucas playing tennis and also Carla doing enter theater class the improv rivals the rules of improv/that were having dinner were talk about that knows I hate any other improv rules I need to know about and she said will there's I think is rule number eight there are no mistakes happy accidents and opportunities Mike Barbara L had little tree happy little trees so happy accident so that's what this shows you to be about we never screw up we just have happy accidents or opportunity opportunities and then one of the opportunities that I've never done with my daughter which is I watched a college basketball game for the first time with her I'm not much of a basketball fan trip to let me tell you what this team locally Texas Tac I think you got some ties to it a part of you got me watching it now absolutely and of course you get inoculated and watching college ball that said that the team to watch right now their head and into the final for this coming weekend that my families popped both of my boys play competitive basketball in high school gauge Mac are both super excited and they match up but hopefully well Michigan State first and if they win that then our friend from last week is going to take us to the final game that'll be fun marks can fly you to the final game Mark said he would take us to the final game if that is not incentive to have Texas Tech went right there on coach Beard unit he made that that is awesome that is good be so cool the whole family Julio whole families can ago so that it'll be really enjoyable but regardless of how to play super proud what an incredible coach pulling together some great kids to accomplish what they did first off over the school so there really excited and the other three teams in the determiner are pretty solid also so is somebody that that doesn't follow possible that much but you're talking about this the really neat thing that the announcers on top of the defense try to explain really quickly why their defense is doing so well a lot of times I believe the way I understand it is basketball teams in college is simply play better defense than they do in the NBA but even more to the point the way that I think that Coach Beard and his assistant Mark added to design the defenses they really really force outside shots to protect the middle if I think you made the comment I saw every time Eric that is they moved into the center suddenly they everyone collapsed around them not only could they not make a way to to the glass to an easy layup very difficult for them to distribute the ball once they get trapped in there so yeah someone may be really good firing from outside and you know that's kind of the risk that you take by not guarding the perimeter really really tight but you come inside the three-point arch and the further you make your way towards a rim is going to be more than one defender, blocking your path so it sets kind of the can of Ashoka defense of the kind perfected super exciting I was reading something about how the ticket sales for this staff are just massive like Texas is going in mass what some people may already know and some people may not know it all there is large the state's taxes is there hasn't ever been a national champion from Texas except for Texas Western now known as UTEP and that was what the movie glory Road was made about the first team to field five black starters and they took on Kentucky and beat them and so that's that was when one was a 19 six minute mess up the ethics 19 6364 maybe 68 are not really sure and I does coach Don Haskins and I'm off on the year but it was deafening 60s yet minor in basketball history didn't do it Texas Tech dad and just really other random useless information makes me no money so well the last couple shows we were somehow ended up doing movie quotes was no way I can quote anything from that movie is legal right thank you to stop and said she would have failed in the right there my extent of low baffle loses Hoosiers so pretty good Jean Hackman's pretty solid mood and feel good is true or not but it's fine so speaking of feel-good what we also like to do is I was trying find some article medical article that we can summarize here that happened this week that would be pertinent to something that were to be doing sure and this week I found a really cool article this is the one it is about muscle and intestinal damage and those who perform athletic events 100% so you what I've talked about this and we have discussed this in different lectures that I see a ton of endurance athletes triathlete really high level translates to come in with intestinal issues and I have to explain to them different reasons why that can actually happen but I just see so many of them and then when we fix their gut they end up getting like some of their personal best right and this article came out it's the first one that I've ever seen good actually looked at biomarkers in blood as to how this could actually happen so what's direct you look so I looked at is the levels of how blood levels of inflammation and intestinal inflammation are produced and the effects on the body when these elite triathletes compete really interesting now it is so whenever you look at a blood effects and and the way that an athlete is going to be measured how did they check the intervals and basically what did that data mean to to just the average athlete so I do not want to offend any of our lead triathletes out there but this is this is fascinating because we always talk about poor Lisa switches when you stress your body you have to log your body to recuperate correct most of the patients that I see when they have something happened there usually training really hard for something to try to qualify for a big raise or try to qualify for Cohen or one of those things and I've recently seen and I think this is been a trend across the country that a lot of people are starting to do these endurance races triathletes marathons they reach a certain age and that you know people stay in shape that's a way to stay in shape so what this article looked at was the mechanical and metabolic stress from the intense work of muscle cells during long-lasting efforts causing significant damage to the cellular structure why this is relevant this week because James Carol's you come on and talk cellular inflammation without doubt he deftly will with the photo by modulation bulimia and the actual bit so were talking specifically about endurance athletes in this article correct correct and so to me it seems like that may be that you have another glaring aspect is somebody who's dude who's doing an endurance sport Weatherby marathon running her triathlete like you said longest cycling ultra marathoners the guys who tried to to make a run across the country which I think that record is 43 days believe it or not was a force go almost but without a beard this this particular was without a beard but I believe that that the record is 43 days all of those types of events are very impressive and it takes quite the dedication to pull that off that being said would you say that in endurance athlete is more susceptible to probably long-term inflammation and that's maybe why they're using someone in that subset to do a study that is a great lead and because this is exactly what that studies all about okay what they looked at is during long-lasting physical efforts from my standpoint blood flow was redirected from the G.I. system to go to other organs specifically muscles no research has shown that athletes training endurance disciplines are vulnerable to abdominal pain nausea and diarrhea in fact they showed that almost 70% of people when they interviewed during the race or immediately afterwards had some sort of G.I. distress what is fascinating about this article as they check the blood levels of of a the molecule called Zahn you and which is an endogenous protein that actually affects the tight junctions and other words there showing that intestinal permeability takes place otherwise known as leaky gut is the first that have ever seen with her actually looking at this and checking volume levels like I said almost 70% of these endurance athletes will accept some sort of issue it's not just oh it's annoying I didn't have such a good time you could be setting yourself up for something more what they did as they looked at 15 very highly trained triathletes who were competing in the world Xterra championship they checked blood parameters baseline pre-after 12 hours and 40 8/48 hours after testosterone cortisol CRP which is C-reactive protein which is a nonspecific component with markers or lasagna will and myoglobin this is what is completely incredible what they showed is that the cortisol levels at baseline on the average was 152 immediately after like one hour after right 467 it remained elevated for $40 testosterone baseline 4.1 it dropped to 2.50 depleting a test you deplete your testosterone crp went from .12 3.38 that's too high to hide that's tons of information and ultimately Sonia will baseline 25 post almost 90 and so what this show does is incredible because we were out there trying to get in shape and you undo these cool things and really push your body but in reality if you do it all the time you have to achieve that for me since you have to back off let your body recuperate no other studies have shown that the physiologic stress markers like cortisol I have always been shown so we we know that that's that's the deal you and I've talked before that not uncommonly will see somebody in the clinic who's been a lifetime marathon runner and they end up with a heart attack yet like a little zip person of an architecture was it turns out inflammation is back working talk with the photo bio modulation about information but we know that information is bad and we know that information can result in systemic disease now what were looking at here is the study was the first one that looked at people showing the intestinal health we know that leaky gut can lead to autoimmune disease right so it's way more than just inflammatory process you were talking about these ultramarathon runners there was another study that I know said also that I didn't the weeds with the sunlight while they looked at this with other people share so I found a study that looked at race Walkers what they do they do 152 mile walk as fast as you can okay and hundred 52 mile walk they show that the CRP jumped 152 times the dinner jumped hundred 52 times the baseline so we talk about the marathon is getting heart attacks and stuff like that and this is even just like fast walking so we know that all this can lead to intestinal problems so this is a perfect reason why we developed something called trying to definitely deadliest so our trunk seal is composed of feels what we do know is that these polyphenols help prepare your body after you go through some producers like that a recent study to show that if you do the Mediterranean diet for four days before a high but before the endurance event you can but once those responses actually because the polyphenols same ones that are trying to actually go into your body your colonic bacteria break them down in the water proposed biotic it decreases the systemic inflammatory response not only that for sports performance increases nitric oxide and gets rid of reactive nitrogen species and reactive oxygen species so that makes total sense why most of my triathletes when we get them on trying to heal they start feeling better what I want to cram too much to get a bid email with that all 20 oh we also talked about the the occasional issues of Zion yelling and how that's affected the guide as well so it sounds to me like somebody who is a long-term runner if you actually are experiencing inflammation okay let's let's go back that this backup just a step somebody who is a long-term runner overtime Dave Dave they started running probably to get in shape because they enjoy the sport but they sometimes get to a point where there like you know I've been running and I eat okay but I still can't quite lose this last amount of body fat that usually pointed her abdomen visually but save there but inflammation usually turns into a little bit extra abdominal fat and when somebody who is chronically inflamed and feels like they're doing the right things and eating the right things but not noticing that they are actually keeping themselves in the cycle of inflammation it's not necessarily that maybe they need to stop the sport altogether but possibly they could add some things to their diet to their sleep patterns to anything to allow their body to simply recover when you sent oh 100% so one of somebody that I respect tremendously who is actually my chiropractor Dr. Ron Troy Dundas elite triathlete trains other Pro triathletes and he has a podcast and I think their Instagram handles recover with the purpose to cover with a purpose he's out there saying run more and so when I went in I saw him you know his regulation to be will slow down right break like your you're doing that's it's hard to do because I was doing the same thing run like I'm trying to run faster on I like to compete someday and that kind of thing and it was just slow down so as it turns out you think you might be doing things or I believe in exercise but I also have learned as I got older that you can not shortchange sleep never to exercise because all you do is increasing these inflammatory markers and his hormones looks like your boots like your no your basically running uphill the whole time and you're just hurting yourself which SASI note for the current listeners if you are interested in picking up some are trying to heal especially for you ultramarathon is if you want to decrease the inflammation and hopefully you can write to us and tell us about your new PR personal best go to love my tummy.com/spoony use the discount code Spinney and save yourself a little of the money yet for real so this this whole article is all about sports performance and when I said that they looked at the Mediterranean diet it wasn't just the decrease the markers you know that these people actually improve their times all of them had across-the-board of 6% improvement bullets the same what's the thing it's in the Mediterranean diet the youth said is is basically that if that power horse behind 20 oh yeah so if you're listening to this it's really important that we spread the message that if your athlete do this but also by going to love my Tommy.com//spoony your supporting this network your supporting chef Patrick and everybody else is trying really hard to do this and you know this is British and get the message out there like we'll talk about PDM Devlin talk about PBM that is photo bio modulation actually what I was asking you for a while ago and tell you memo said mistakes make opportunities I get to say something the thing that's ubiquitous in the Mediterranean diet is polyphenols and that's what's jampacked in trying to heal so I give a lecture where there is a researcher out of the UK another UK person probably judging his neighbor yet probably is so James's neighbor Dr. Boutwell yes she did a whole analysis of this that if you take a thousand milligrams of polyphenols three hours before competitive event you actually decrease muscular damage and increase nitric oxide increasing blood flow to the muscles how do you get a thousand milligrams you can eat five bowls of cherries which is a lot lot of fructose a lot of fructose or you can take two doses of outfront you definitely admit that Dr. Joe hotel and she's from exit University and was sponsored by believe it was Gatorade labs and it has nothing to Gatorade they simply allowed her to do polyphenol research she came back with some incredible information it Long word Pro anthocyanins Massena correctly pro anthocyanins so that is basically what she said if we could find a way to deliver that in that just so happens to be what John Teal is so you could take four capsules of pro anthocyanins also known as trying to heal and protect yourself I love it holy cow we just I just rambled mostly I apologize for that but I get deep demand thanks for apologizing here all related to love the stuff that's good hey everybody clearly back the next half-hour with an amazing guest always in UK Dr. James Carroll of the laser if you are trying to quit drinking or doing too many drugs listen to me you don't know me and will never meet I had a problem like you want I drank and used a party a little too much till he got out of control and almost ruined my life I realize I needed help to fix my problem before it totally destroyed me if you tried to fix your drinking and drug problem and you know you can't do it alone you need to call the national treatment advisors they'll immerse you into a 30 day program to replace your old habits with new habits and totally change your life and if you have PPO private health insurance the entire program may be covered if your problem right now before it gets any worse get clean call now and learn more 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 it looks like you're losing I am I losing weight I am losing my lost about 10 pounds how are you doing it funny name but I done it with review zone RAD use zone.com and the stuff works it's unique it and all that the molecule this and that found in that I can tell you is it it's a it makes you feel full and he keeps your mind off of wanting to overeat and also boost your metabolism as your done and more guys try it today it's gonna work for you like his work for Brad and countless other people read you zone.com are IDUs zone.com FastTrack student loans can get your student loans out of the vault stop any wage garnishments stop collection calls and stop seizure of your tax refund give yourself a break to stop the stress and get your student loan payments down to as little as $25 a month based on what you can afford to pay 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 why we are now going to get your host Kenneth Brown MD along with James Carol Boudreaux all the way from London which we didn't know you do where's your microphone is a cool thing and letting it is yeah working I by so we are going to fill some time here but we plug in the microphone while you're there and break I did what we get your microphone ready I found an article same theme photo bio modulation and human muscle tissue and advantage in sports performance wow oh my goodness front seal and photo bio modulation hand-in-hand to improve athletic performance well so I just a small delay while we bring James Carol on with the system or we are getting his microphone plugged in but in the meantime we did leave the last half hour talking about endurance athletes better recovery talked about using polyphenols in order to make that happen and now what we are learning is you can also use other therapies in conjunction with that that would be polyphenol such as an arch on teal we didn't touch on last time but there's also a lot of athletes have turned to CBD and a great CBO is to do the same Morgan Leonard Abilene working at CBD by the little place called the KPMG healthy can also go to KB MD health.com and I go to the store you will find your very own first ever physician approved CBD here and what you know to my right actually is Mr. James Carroll of Thor laser like I said we get Hume spends 10 days in the US after month he's given one of them to us yet definitely appreciate thank you, thank you for having me so back to ask you said you drove all the way from London to the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang United flight conflict drive but didn't take long to get that British sense of humor help develop its out Chitty Chitty Bang Bang entailing took a three second anatomy oh well not like you do it as a reference quite that quickly other asking for your microphone because you're just a bit closer trying to get a very nice well so James also that your history Dr. Carol Mr. Carol Switzer correct I Mr. Carol Mr. Carol okay so one of James James to James you are the founder and CEO after laser so tell us a little bit about your history leading up to the other founding authorities and they will get into what it's all about I Kate content that around and tell you what it is faster than the setting I got you good to have you on IK so foot my modulation is something's been on TV sticky Star Trek and but most science fiction movie seem to do something like this when that when somebody gets injured that Dr. approaches you with a laser beam Ames the laser beam at the injury and the injury heals the tissues regenerate instantly so we make those so Star Trek just came to life right here in the studio so did you produce you made those that they use on the Star Trek set is what you're saying that we brazenly make them hospitals it is not as instant as TV say the ideas still the same thing you shine light on people and they get better more quickly okay sidelined by light you you mean well it's a particular kind of like okay it's not a lie not a flashlight now so it's monochromatic like the light of one, and have lunch of the right collar as we can say wavelength because we do use light outside of the visible spectrum we have a lot to the right wavelength and if it is the right intensity and if we use it for I made in the right place calls for the recommended time you can speed up the quality improve speed and quality of tissue a path to reduce information edema guys down the lymphatic system gets very busy if it is on and with a particular high dose you can induce analgesia that is something we can definitely touch on here a moment because I want to talk well you have a story that you've shared with everyone else and will get that's what what drew you in to say I saw that on Star Trek I see people healing from lasers I want to be a part of it and produce one what I had to tell you how this was discovered because wasn't discovered by me okay so back in the 60s when the first laser was invented I'm working by five at 19 60 x 19 67 a scientist wanted to find out if maybe this new Ray laser Ray it might cause cancer so he wants to do an experiment say takes is some text mice he shaves the heifer abilities he divides into two groups puts a low powered Ruby laser beam among group and not the other see if the treatment group developed cancer and it didn't surprise the hacker back will quickly on the treatment group from then on the untreated group to he called that laser by stimulation it was 1967 but is back in Budapest Hungary so this ishungry was pods of fats of the thing the oncoming behind the uncut controlled by Russia the knees didn't come out very quickly back in the 60s we went great friends of the Russians unlike now where) to send you mojo 5.0 political state, more so they they held every I got involved in 87 I was that part of a business that was helping small businesses get hold of government grounds and that one of our customers with the laser company and I went to a meeting at research Hospital in London good Guy's hospital and that they were showing off what they been doing on small animals with laces and how is heating up wounds will quickly when I saw that I thought but that's the future this going to be one of these in every department of every hospital in the whole world within five years this is can be massive I thought that 1987 it's incredible when I was wrong was I didn't take five years may still not that right so it is now my 52nd year in this field 30's 32 years of trying to get the message out something that you've known that can help people that you have seen help people yet getting Nana so that is being over 700 randomized placebo-controlled clinical trial published in this field the 4000 of archery studies looking at the mechanism of action in the dose response is about setting pipe is coming out every month in this field I get Mike's doctors have never even heard of it there are systematic reviews published in the months it the British medical Journal example some of the leading generals in the world and that lost in the UK on national health nationally suit of healthcare excellence now recommend this treatment in hospitals in the UK for the treatment of the side effects of high-dose chemotherapy and radiotherapy one of the side effects is you lose all the skin is how to mount the developer's ulceration and it's really painful and excited by the love people want to give up that cancer treatments because it's a severe and what we know is that this treatment as demonstrated in faulty randomized controlled clinical trials will basically either prevent over juice the incidence and severity all four mixologists in cancer patients and now it's a recommended treatment in the UK and in the US Blue Cross Blue Shield just started I reimbursing for in some regions for this dream as well that's fantastic that's incredible so when they treat these patients with mucositis do you accept that shine the light in the mouth traditionally yes so the historic to what people been doing is taking a a single red laser beam and poking around the mouth so they treat over that time does tongue lateral boulders ventral tongue floor the mouth it's the buccal tissues of the inside of the cheeks the hot pilot soft palate and treat individual spots that maybe do 20 points to try and reduce incidence and severity when I working on Sunday with hobbit where it developing an extra oral treatment meaning outside the mouth treating through the cheeks to get the buccal tissues to prevent in that method and this is a treatment for children one quick question try to get the word out there is it similar to like what we have to do with our supplement where you really can't make disease claims you can't say disease state or because it is a device are you able to say no we use this for mucositis induced cable or chemotherapy -induced mucositis right so lab is FDA codes for different devices which have been they say what you concise and but you don't realize the FDA regulate marketing that set primary Joey we learn that okay so I'm not I don't about that about the CBD's no idea what the rules are around that that the devices they may sit sable today so we've been whilst I suppose 2030 years ago the FDA will hostile to this is a form of light therapy somebody twisted somebody's, they really relax the definition of a heat lamp they'd even created the new catch. He called the non-heating heating lamp the nonhealing extract layout is the love bureaucrat I skew that Lord you know what like seeing all those hamburgers at McDonald's or like that's a nonhealing heat lamp right there is nothing all those hamburgers room temperature burgers just like that so anyway that there are also countries now with this project from a product to be sold with very limited indications in the broadest one is an Iowa category which is basically based on heat lamp but now you get doesn't have to be infrared you can use visible red and it doesn't actually have to heat either but they've embroiled in this set of really relaxed state in the lousiest technology on and I do you happen to know and I think think it's top-secret that the FDA working to develop effort by modulation code thoughts for a moment it will be a real thing as far as FTS consent already the national Library of medicine the people who run pop made Palmetto I have developed a mesh time a medical subject headings full footed by modulation so as far as mesh elaborate medicines can send this is the real thing at the FDA is going to get that to fall behind and then they'll be out of an official category not quite what you can say about it we don't know yet we don't know what they going to the bone what is approved state that they don't approve most technologies I think of when the trip to people ever exist but within THE product they clear products for marketing that the category as haggis picked expressive so it's FDA cleared for in the case we go with the infrared heat the old heat lamp Bush which is temporal relief of muscle and joint pain and the blood flow and something is equipment of the detail but as long unless is basic to claim pain relief it sounds like that he has somewhat of the same battle that we do whenever we have a supplement that we can Ashley put proof behind the issue is is the way that best interpreted the altruistic version of what the FDA's to do is protect the public from things that could cause them harm so that's that's the that's the version that they want you to stop it I think that there's also an addendum to that and that is if you've run the rigmarole of somehow being blessed as a medical drug or medically approved device then you can make the claims regardless of what your study says as long as it's not hurting someone but even if you have said it's completely natural or something that safe and benign like like light treatment can be they don't necessarily want to extend that same opportunity to you and you almost always at the talk about the symptoms around the disease or or an issue versus saying we help here which is opposite in Canada yet so little in Canada where it was in the we got our NP and number in Pyongyang Danya it was funny because we sent them everything that says on this box which is occasional discomfort on another note what's the disease that you guys fix will like will in Canada we fix irritable bowel syndrome and it's very very different like without telling it what we say in your case with the CE mountain your and you you when you report on the market data is a numb.we have what with the clinical evaluation report and that something examined limu apes make claims about joint pain tendinopathy back and neck pain we do or make scientists right and is very clinical and then you state what range you want they examine you with your data and then let me put on the market with those claims and that's with much more specific we can be much more specific in your we on the use of vague time about temporally the muscle and joint pain and arthritis in whatever however is something along those lines a couple small things are very first heard about Thor laser and photo by modulation of PBM is his skin is Artie made it as a part of his everyday vernacular this is yet it is not PVR yes that's a professional bull riding on tangible rounds blue ribbon but PBM LL LT triple LT photo by modulation Thor laser what is the the best term to succinctly say that because I believe that LLT could also mean the LED underlay search likely yes it had 79 different names of idiots which makes it very hard to pin down sure people keep inventing the rent names possibly because they want to have that product somehow be hot when they really tell me what it is the Google it they get that product so it is been a lot of invention of new times and I do know why some scientists keep wanting to they maybe have some transcranial low level laser therapy and therefore it's true when the truth in the brain then yes it said going through the brain but actually making it harder for everyone to find my keep coming up with nuanced versions of the original name all chance can you try to find my modulation but they liquidate T's multi-PBM therapy or something like that such a PBM therapy even get the mom will one for the team front of it that you didn't say serve nomenclature aside after I learned about the different names and begin to look it up why was blown away his by is a lot of what use referenced earlier and there are times of articles within pub med about normal mute mucositis again some of these that stood out to me were there for chronic nonspecific low back pain the European Society for medical oncology says that the redo reducing the mucositis your World Health Organization back in 2008 yet said that it is now recommended for neck and back pain that's not nothing that's significant was you the reason why I was so excited have you on when he brought it up study that I found was a rat study with a induced arthritis in these rats treated one group with PBM and the other will not and then they they euthanized him in the looked at it on a microscopic level clerical roles like do this is real but there's cellular stuff going on here this is not you know because there's so much like marketing and people changing stuff what I want to know what is super fascinating as you discover this and 87 and you clearly have something that you or you found something of the rest of the world needs to learn about in the 1960 Spock was using the start I spoke with Vulcan but I know the doctor you're not old enough to know I'm deftly old really bad with horrible as somebody who's also an entrepreneur you're the owner and CEO in you work your tail what happened 1987 can you just give us a synopsis and on on your life and career to get here in front of us well just to for anybody holding out for a great degree or anything I got the same level qualifications as Steve Jobs Bill Gates and Richard Branson what they do exactly the it basically happened to be unethical 16 minute qualifications analogy to have a medical school professes let's what happened yet doesn't so I left school 16 I was in it in an rock band on you had a make a fuzzball, while a pedal and amplifying him he had to connect these things out so I don't want to be in electronics and other school I Colby and Reese have a single Yellow Pages member them love electronics company and that was tournament train what right away and then said one being a princess designing they made radio stations and the TV and voted for TBC day so I wanted to work and then I asked for job and they say, environment sure enough they could tell it I knew little ready about it and they want to get my enthusiasm so I went out there and I did study some electronics college failed to college and femtosecond it twice but I still dwelling comfortable the promotions running departments and that so that's my 660 is of that and I I helped a friend to run up this a.m. sports, restoration business in all sports classic house from the 60s and 50s and that bent down under should go back to work run another test department electronics company making translucent satellites just wants money add Sadie sold out and the buses the lessee shall never make money as an engineer and he says going to have to learn how to be some sales so I took a job Pitney Bowes the two well but anyway none had a decent sales am then I bought a franchise of friends held up a ground information we had this laser accompanies a client I thought as I told you this is fantastic this is good to be in every department of every hospital in the whole world turned five years so I left to get himself of that lazy company they went out of business a few years later as I started my only two engineers who are already working for that company and that while well till 2005 Thursdays it was Yellow Pages again you look up physiotherapist or something and Jason Coleman making appointments I can assure you my new toy right so we seldom let one of the time like that travel the UK on a motorcycle with laces on the back setting these things go until with the Will Smith pursuit of happiness with the bone scan machines right now with that one this is fascinating because all I heard was that didn't work that failed that breakdown underinsured that didn't work just keep going this is the whole thing of the cross I don't think there are residents this ransom of 2005 I can maybe it's a a the a joint project of the Navy and the FDA that bought some laces from us and I went to a conference however that the CM what they been doing with it and they were healing spinal cord injuries in rats so I still would disease can be much because I realize I thought from my first and voted as he leans and then I could see was helping physiotherapists and sports injuries as a PT physical and that so I felt go back to my consciousness I hate we have to write a plan we are raising money the world can we can get overtaken by Siemens and Philips another companies like that because with two small we need money we need to do this properly and they said do that VCs will take of your company they'll probably fire us and anybody else is any good I probably can crush the company and I said but I'm not waiting around for you I'm leaving on a semi-business start writing a plan for Colby few weeks I've since come back nobody's buying from us and we will do it your way write the plan Bryson money I've they put some new management in and we were bankrupt within 18 months I thought everybody was good they were totally right so that's well we've got we raise money in 2006 and we were dead by by late 2000 70 my gosh this is this is why love having real entrepreneurs on the just keep grinding it out dental don't realize you went through all of the ship to get where you are why is obvious that you honestly believe in what is Richard Riley I do need to believe it's that it's it's hot evidence published in some the brace leading medical journals writing a new belief request you not the technology side do apologize but have the belief in the idea of the company that you can elevate that because this is a fantastic technology its mission sure and I am quite clear the cult the corporate mission is to heal and relieve pain right pretty simple our vision is that will be in every corner of every department of every hospital in the whole world and I got a goal of having the step established as a first-line medical treatment for 100 different diseases in 100 different countries have different rules in each country by the time on 100 years old so that's by May 7, 2062 which makes nearly 57 is open you do not do so got to let him hundred and then I'm taking a 20 holiday well we we are going to talk on some of the specific cases but I do know we only have about seven minutes left this half-hour but there are different wavelengths you use two variants of nanometers for red you have blue and green thicker and that we get you thinking don't use blue and grateful kind of day and I can talk about when Sherrick oh yeah no no that's fine because people and I why what is worldwide like the why Jesus waiting on one another my mind waiting for the new one or something like that like I can address all what really what I was going with is you use different lights because through the research you found it through intensity know whether the depth of the tissue that you're going to affect with the life you're going to use yell built-in protocols through your research and that this particular light in this particular setting requires this particular type of therapy right that the therapeutic window is quite broad and sure you can achieve the same effect with different wavelength okay and weaving a certain range and use similar intensities it's not a narrow accident like a cliff edge any for off by nanometer something to work or even a playpen nanometers it's not done what she called up quite a broad spectrum and it's not entirely clear yet now in the and that when it's if it's ever any better to use read only on Fred like unless the penetrations an issue if you want to get to the target that's centimeters date not really not get much beyond the names penetration matter what you say and if we had a whiteboard harassed on drawings why you can't as the diminishing returns and inverse square law on what happened but like sketches and gets absorbed but really says he millimeters is about the limit if you can measure light for a 5 cm deep down it's extremely low levels anything will wind down if you turn up the power by note by hundred percent if I double the pads will get double at that finances absolutely not see things get double the intensity by so you get double intensity of light on the surface let's imagine you 3 cm date let's imagine it's like .1% of what was on the surface something like that then .1% of one what per centimeter squared well you have .1% of double the power at its recent misty but is still double almost nothing it's just the people dumb mistake, doubling path doubling penetration he doesn't write double intentions F is just give you double the intensity at 3 cm deep but haven't been to double of almost nothing you have regained anything I want to completely geek out on this but I want finish with your career because now tells about board like how where you're at how how big it is are you because with all these you overcame all these obstacles now are you sober in my million-dollar business has it that the end of last year where on a run right so far this has 12 minute I have a 35 people Nursultan 72 countries discount him systems it must be about 6000 systems installed around the world mostly to what we call irrationally committed healers who wandered off the map and like buying toys/irrationally what irrationally committed heinous of these irrationally committed in the woods they the committed healers who so interested in making the patients better and they say that's it that's what I want I want one of those semi-one of those send me the bill or whatever it is and they buy one before they figure out how they can make any money with it right they irrationally committed healers and these are usually private medical practices across the world do have permits in the UK as well Australia and Canada making using and become main markets then why Chris Europe Middle East as well at the the irrationally committed healer so that people who think about healing patients before they think about the money and another thing to make money with it they do usually quite entrepreneurial as well not the not on the kind of blinks unlike in the career path that says no I just want to get sued today and identified if I don't go outside the norm such that my my head of department doesn't give me a promotion or whatever like that he's these are people who are just out for that patient that's all the focused on not that Korea's and they yes they will make money and they may make may not make career progression maybe doesn't have a career progression on a plane to people's grace of not being involved… Inhibited that Chris I'm sure it happens we go see meetings as well as probably medical people who are shunned by others seems that I could be getting valves it's crazy stuff but yeah so in all fields it's the irrationally committed healers wonderful Matt they don't stick to just what they learned in school but they probably do take a look at acupuncture and they taken a look at some other therapies this is a broad-minded and then the one of so that's wandering off the map of that career and then they like buying toys wondering off the mat though it to me is very endearing you just simply means you're open to realizing you don't know all the answer yes James our goal with this showing what works wonders were trying to bridge the gap were trying to look at these things take some of this irrational in enthusiasm and science it up know it makes sense now look we need to start reevaluating this kind of thing sort of bridging the gap between these two worlds that's Bartel within our field we reach the highest levels of evidence they thought people like systematic reviews and then published in the non-sit in the British medical channel doesn't get much better than that these things and still the barriers of that you can get the signs there are criticisms of all signs like a lot of the date was extended since its much abuse but in publishing high enough impact factor journals is always a reason why not it seems to me we now teaching in medical schools have got we not you got research project running 51 medical schools around the world now so this is where I think it what you got to get into this big alertness at school right that's how we met does mean is 1020 years before they are in a decision-making position coping 20 but sent me we needed many people leaving medical school with this as part of the toolbox and that's working and working the political level now as well have a Congressional briefing back in November did you see that I saw that on your two best served on the Congressional briefing and we now got somebody active full time around Capitol Hill working with insurance companies working with politicians trying to persuade them that we need more money from NIH to do the kind of research they say they want to see fun little and to change minds at the highest level has also continued this in the next half-hour when there is plenty of opportunity for laser.com back with James here is this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun we're spooning user tower from Townhall.com I'm not arguing Washington says he's being harassed by house committees now run by Democrats is White House correspondent Greg Clarkson in the face of stepped-up investigations the president tweets this is the highest level of presidential harassment in the history of our country house Democrats are asking for six years of Donald Trump's tax returns 10 years of his financial records and are preparing to issue a subpoena for the full Russia report from the special counsel the president complains that some Democrats are fighting hard to keep the witchhunt alive Greg Claxton Washington a preliminary report finds no fault with prove that Ethiopian Airlines jet crash last month Ethiopia's Minister of Transport says the Boeing max pilots were fully licensed since and they follow their training she says aviation safety expert John Cox says everything about last October's crash and last months crash of that Ethiopian Airlines that remains a very curious what I think it shows the need for very careful analysis of potential faults wonder designing new aircraft or updated aircraft mowing is declining the comment predicates review all that new report German chemicals company bears as a detected and averted a cyber attack last year by a hacking group is been traced to China in a statement bear said its in-house cyber security team found signs of malicious software associated with the group Win NT on company systems in early 2018 the company said there were no signs of data outflow in the affected IT systems have since been cleaned it said prosecutors in Cologne have opened an investigation German officials have in the past warn of industrial espionage from China correspondent Jeremy House reported on Wall Street the Dow is booming right now 140 points class act of 18 Morley stories@townhall.com now you can fly anywhere in the world and paid discount prices on your airline tickets flight to date on harassment to read or anywhere else you want to go and pay a lot less guarantee quality international travel department right now low-cost airlines 800-452-1075 800-452-1075 that's 800-452-1075 got an old car you can donate it whether it's running or not to the United breast cancer foundation and save a life they'll even come and pick it up for free the United breast cancer foundation has saved hundreds of women's lives through their free or low-cost breast screening exams but now they need your help the United breast cancer foundation wants to save more lives through early detection by offering women free or low-cost breast screening exams donating your old car SUV or truck whether it's running or not helps pay for them plus you get a charitable tax deduction help the United breast cancer foundation save lives by donating your old car SUV or truck call now for free pickup 800-245-0823 800-245-0823 800-245-0823 all right now that number again is 800-245-0823 never forgotten apparel is more than just a premium women's and men's clothing line it's a movement to remind us to where American-made and serve those who serve us our heroes never forgotten apparel gives 20% of their total sales to nonprofits that support homeless veterans and off-duty firefighters and 50% to individual veterans and firefighters in need nationwide checkout never forgotten apparel.com use promo code Matt and ATT and get 15% off your purchase okay that is now the second hour of project episode number five we are joined with CEO and founder of Thor laser James Carol all the way from London and of course your host Dr. Campground of gastroenterology to help if you want to see what this laser looks like and what James Carol looks like go to our Instagram at KPMG help and you'll see we depose little video yesterday he took the time out of giving a lecture to show me the actual booth the laser booth bright pretty cool neat stuff. Read Albany one leg that's malaise that we usually got that one yes will get into that different websites that that's nobody thought.com and Novo Thorpe never told so that last half-hour loved your story you overcoming all the stuff clearly there's tons of data other from the literature why haven't why hasn't someone like me heard about it until just recently is not reinvest that's the bottom line it is so it would help also if that is the bottom line I mean if the only cancer centers that were dealing with would love to be using it tomorrow if only it was reimbursed so that is they probably will miss his major priority for us to need insurance code basically can stage a housemate and have yet still have another countries no you can't have national health service so it's only national health service for cancer patients it's is not out here yet because of the way the system works okay what about another kind of social program that may be comparable to the UK because if I remember correctly I think I overheard you been working with that the VA here stateside the correct that's right so we made a light helmet so if you can imagine American football football his helmet mentioned that with full of light of and identities bright red ones and the stick missing on your head and it shoots light into their brain what is that you're trying to accomplish with the light helmet for they the veterans so placed medic stress disorder and whatever cover any other cognitive problems related to concussion of brain injury you think you did to Hathor laser with his helmet would be it be beneficial if I understand correctly to help people with a concussion protocol absolutely or CTE protocol absolutely okay so What kind of evidence if you had with but that's fark that's that is deftly hot topic at CTE oh my gosh is working to have one of our guests coming up when we are to have it scheduled but the Col. Paul Blair oh yeah he works with election all the company that supplies our CBD he's done a ton of research on PTSD and traumatic brain injury I think there's a lot of synergy using these lights in CBD and got health all of it right fascinating I'm just going to have a look and something which is my my database here you can see it says Vogel you have your lights are to have but it's not is not public not just our goal so this is only funded by modulation reception on this missing him and then yeah I just brain him he took the studies regarding treating the brain woodlot 295 285 complete holidays published in peer-reviewed medical journals fantastic yes that shows what it does to reduce basically oxidative stress and increase IDP in the brain which means things for for nerve regeneration supported the cortical neurons chair and then looking the clinical benefits of that with us full by beating F brain drive neurotrophic factor and so helps the brain repair itself and that we love these effects maybe not Judas he sees the show in animals and humans were much bigger is how to get the light to steep and it seems a lot of these effects adjusted to improve blood flow as well it's still Ethan I'm all about how much of it to do with getting lots cortical neurons and how much of it is about getting light just improving blood flow but between the pair of them its people getting better minutes it was a TV show whether I think would be having I be showing you data from first patient whose finished cultivating treatment since we delivered this device and the change in his post medic stress disorder is this is breathtaking letter leading to asked about my follow-up question is been able to track anybody to see how maybe they been able to deal with their own personal depression since funny enough I just happen to have a score on just was looking at that a review on using this the very first one if you type in Google scholar 2017 in the journal reviews and neuroscience is the potential of transcranial photo bio modulation therapy for the treatment of major depressive disorder yes that's a 21 patient study how the medical school eight sets pass it is extraordinary and takes Micah so I think that when they need 18 treatments months of at three times a week for six weeks and he treats the treatment the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex of the tear in half hampered light emitting diodes and that they held there for 20 minutes both sides and yeah it's good but MDD met major depressive disorder is the third leading cause of disability in the world Seth and I were turning around but goes hand-in-hand with so many things major depressive disorder goes along with chronic pain goes along with sleep issues goes along with PTSD I mean it is a it can be the byproduct of so many things or to be the primary thing that can root cause other things no joke so I am just flipping this up on the screen for you you yes exactly the right question this is that's when if you screech each other shut you fast okay and I'll turn around others can see it to Festival self rating of cognitive behavioral and emotional function difficulties here look at this dramatic drop in plaza so in this visit thus itself writing on this is a retired NFL players yes emotional outbursts here so as it says down here reliable decrease is 10 to 20 points he has a 40 point drop off trickles of 18 treatments this is one week for the one month follow-up on that I'll just turn around so that one of your cameras can maybe pay you presume upon him about so what was wrong because this is absolutely critical narrate right this will get to play six is it really lose the focus back further away still not like to say I can't lie it's not out of focus I have to come in and refocus the camera and then reflect on the LCL I know you're the company to detail but it's that and how people look at this this is one individual so who the first person to complete cultivating treatments this is incredible potentially were talking about anybody who would have concussive issues it could be any athlete obviously football players but now when you're talking about traffic accidents road traffic density halls and the VA people who been subject to to combat battle absolutely but even beyond that you look at emotional outburst yeah yeah my staff you want will you will not got it did on Seo question now I think you might have an answer the question that it's just impressive that we got a technology that you are intimately familiar with literally four months ago I had just never heard of it right wow what a cool picture yet I'm going to thoughts of the tub just say I feel this is due on it get check project.com is you can see if you have video I make can see this cool helmet listen to football him with a bunch red lights on the inside that's the eye that that's the apparatus you're using them correctly yet and does so will will put all the images and make them available just the same and of course you will learn more Thor laser.com images training courses all over the world so if you go to the laser.com lookup training and you'll see that we do about space 50 trainings a year across the globe just yesterday you are in the North Dallas and what was the convention exactly as the Academy of laser dentistry okay so that they become fans of this to so the idea here is that so many pathologies that they could be treating them just use it for postoperative pain as an alternative to nonsteroidal anti-French drunks do not gratefully right but it looks better than insights and it helps you heal as well is that this is the big take away message for this but since it is an excellent pain reliever and in clinical trials it outperforms nonsteroidal engine from trees acetaminophen and opioids it also helps you heal which those drugs can actually inhibit healing so this is a technology which is regenerative and analgesic and anti-inflammatory and so dangerous we use it postoperatively but they also treat these people get these would look aberrant neuropathic extremely painful problems as well that people just don't have ounces full so I what I personally find makes me feel most moved by is what it can do for people in extreme pain and how whether drugs barely muscular tool is a kind of pain to draw people to suicide have postherpetic neuralgia trigeminal neuralgia this kind of thing so this is a fact we can actually turn these around by actually helping heal the that that this functioning of is what excites me but Petra just yeah it's funny I was just asking Marie about trigeminal or agile friend David I was so and he's in Houston he's up early 70s but he has trigeminal around he stand for five episodes a day and if you've ever seen this it say you you basically collapsed on the ground squeeze your head cry, this is a grown man who was in the military for years and years he went to two brain surgeries and dad the second cause a stroke and I was just asking if this effect on the only thing he's found he is not had a single episode why CBD is full spec CP but I think this is a treatment I I'm telling you is called a suicide disease of this there is some chronic pain is it just wears you down I was actually talking to a friend of mine just a couple days ago who is a pain doctor Dr. Paul Barrick and we were talking she is reevaluated his pain practice because his interpretation of pain his highest level it's your 1 to 10 scale is dependent on how much pain you've actually experienced in your life to drop reference right said it he broke his leg doing something so that was my tent and then he ended up with nerve pain now in Newtown was his new 10 now I have a holy respect when I talk to patients about what they say their pain is because when you start looking at some of this like phantom limb pain things that are all nerve related it is like trigeminal neuralgia on the all different kinds my dad passed from metastatic lung cancer two half years ago and the part the suffering that it took him down the most was trigeminal neuralgia and sadly this was not on the table as an option for him to have for him to turn to and only wish that it would've been it would've been fantastic had we having known you at the time to have been able to address that but it Patrick's incredibly correct and I'm sure that you you seen it in and can your right as well nerve pain is a killer average something else I actually had shingles number four years ago that wasn't much fun have y'all worked with any type of herpetic enough using psychical just looking my screen now I think I am missing something or say tribute to Greg of Terry Butts was a camera later but just to run the spouse you guys postherpetic neuralgia it's mostly 20 patients had mean age of 69 years means ration of paint at 2 1/2 years so up to the plate is in the study again to get treated twice a week for four weeks so group may get treatment twice a week for four weeks down here and the pain comes down group B is on a placebo it's a crossover trials and now group B get the active treatment plant pain comes down to join group A but not just replace not getting laissez down now this the follow-up data at the end of the month the second month after the end of the study and they nonfunctional the patient's it discontinued all medication this is a disease and drive people to suicide is using at 5% required reduced dosage of medication that six month follow-up 80% of patients have maintained a reduction in pain and to patients potential pain of scorer for not require medication and to recut potential pain of six and eight severalty that it's horrible for them but most patients here basically getting a long-term relief from this treatment time so I can only imagine that were not using this because it's highly addictive the side effects of tremendous drugs known as I clicked so it wasn't published in the great channel it was published in the laser channel and they see some of the criticism we get product because there are low level laser therapy journals out all laser medicine channels that like publishing at the something cool publication bias and everybody rightly is suspicious that if you publish your data in a general which is already sympathetic to feel then they tend to have a poor quality of manuscript review and therefore bits less reliable data is considered so that's one of the criticisms could you got all this enthusiasm by these irrationally committed healers and they start up associations with that unit if you come and say hi I'm curing zinc a virus and with end about Aaron and AIDS is I'm thinking of a leader right you know just because they believe they believe in this therapy chair and that doesn't help us really need a most skeptical recently got published in high-impact journals that are not and from oriented fuel club is it what you want to be going to paper should be in accounts of general not in a low level laser therapy general that's helps with getting in the right channels that's what will help us get into guidelines that will help us get reimbursement that will help us be mainstream we run into this also because you I want to be in the gastroenterology journals that the most premier ones and it and it ends up being a bit of a club word you know the editors of you understand that you submit and a lot of it is driven by the in my industry the pharmaceutical industry controls those pages they control what gets in large studies large randomized placebo-controlled trials that are very high so describing because if you're a pharmaceutical company have asked budgets which are not like anything is going to be in your industry is not presuming enough money in your industry possibly to fund these things is are billion-dollar maybe there is a C meeting other billion-dollar companies but they if they are they should be funding the trials that get into these channels and it was just an improved vitamin C for everyone that is fascinating though now the beauty of this what you're doing hold the mic and talking about it we know now in this age of information you the only people that really that matters with or the academic doctors were somebody walking their office going look this is a journal when they look at it go that's a that's a false journal route is people will talk a tier 3 channel number three and there is no budget was all done you can buy your way into any journal remember there was a show called and ruins everything where he actually submitted a script to show got published in a really low level journal that she published the script of the show you can pay for it yet you can pay to play but like you're saying you have no postherpetic neuralgia if you've got trigeminal neuralgia then when people talk they go on forms again these Facebook groups it has a movement you distract me and will you been doing it since 1987 shouting at the rooftop and that paper I think was 1992 so you've been around while you are at the dental conference yesterday have y'all been able to breaking into possibly like a dermatology group or ecology conference to talk about there this this treatment is alive and well in dermatology and I think I so the it's stem cells in the United States is not what we called them children Britain okay what region Britain was what you call medical dermatology an otherwise good treating with diseases of the skin if you like as opposed to dumb solitaire here is mostly seems to me about skin wrinkles and hair removal and breast enlargement of something that but based cosmetic surgery and that's not a world I want to be in this so much misinformation that feels that arming the just get a chance out that never excited by what they do with it and it's alive and well dermatology its academic there with that I just got message by somebody listening to this right now and this is one of the reasons that it's cost prohibitive to the client that is not depends if you're talking about if you want a home use device for treating yourself is it cost prohibitive and that the treatment there are devices that you can probably get $400 and the devices like on the whole boating never thought thing which is $100,000 but hundred and $20,000 so if somebody like one of these irrational practitioners what what would it cost for treatment typically if somebody were to go they just wanted this is something that they could that they could pursue and where can they find I think most people are doing 100 $250 per treatment okay but I say hundred 50 for Mente 5250 so I think it's typically in that kind of range and that the night with the website which is the whole body treatment system where we get 100 installations now is a map that you can go find some way we have thousands who use the laser products sold as a.com and is a tab which you really look honest think it's under the about us tab and he says find a treatment center and the right choice you tell us what you disease or injury as whereabouts in the world you live just fill in the form he tells us and then at them will shoot you and send you to somebody we know who we think will do a good job for you suffer individualized we don't want to have thousands could you could just say hey there's a treatment center down the street not realize it's a dentist but you going for a foot problem or it's a veterinarian or something like that and we haven't refined them we know we've got guys through a database McCaffrey Buffalo everybody would you like to be in a website with on a map to be promoted and then we got I think we got cool thousands of treatment centers around the world and do that before can become public so stateside you probably range everywhere from medical doctors medical offices and practices who currently have a Thor laser all the way to The same as massage therapists been using its can I have something to at my hands in any of those could be found probably on your locators long they've agreed to be listed I we haven't done this map for most of our products okay so you have to just filling out form will tell you whether the okay you say what you want have treated and that they say neuralgia trigeminal neuralgia we know there in this the city will say they need to see this going well this is uncharged once it is one thing that nobody is listening this is one of those things please share this because if you know anybody that has chronic pain in their suffering this is what this is why we have that's were trying to find ways to bring hope so that you're not just sitting there in a room depressed you know agonizing over some nerve pain this is at least an option I've got a loved one my aunt and as she is 80 years young and she has recently developed sciatic pain so she's begun getting treated by the door later and I would say that she was skeptically optimistic and now she's she's booked her follow-up treatments because it's noticeable pain and for her it really wasn't a white around the first treatment delivered results for her that day which is not what really I expected it wasn't what she expected but thankfully she had access to it and she feels she feels much much much better right right so what's really cool is you have no skin in the game we built were not affiliates or anything like that I'm just looking up the articles there are so many articles well done studies even in my field I just saw one just published in 2019 photo bio modulation of the micro bio implications for metabolic and inflammatory disease you say 2019 2019 so it is again on more recent then last month last month and I look at this and go oh it was published in the lasers and medical science journal I'm looking for someone to read it and see if it makes sense it makes sense then there is some rationale behind it does look deeper into yes so it there are many applications of the laser itself or the LED and so we talked about pain we just now learned that there's a recent article on the micro bio we can talk about it in the next half-hour's probably some of the best Takeaway stories and the best application but what are the different divisions that you want the laser to be available at I've heard of macular degeneration I felt obviously we'll talk about that the next half-hour but macular degeneration obviously covered pain we talked about some element of dentistry which we probably get into the next half hour what other avenues the upper suited to help alleviate pain and expedite healing my favorite three areas my first three targets for some of my my hundred plan as I called it hundred diseases hundred countries hundred years hundred euro plan might mention a firearm excises we done that Mike and for generations high on the list and displacing opioids as a treatment for pain is the Salem going from nice to have my will just go back to my dad he was he was dependent upon Dell audit. Flareups and that's that's no way to live whenever you've got to cancer and now you can go to the bathroom because you take too many opioids so just be begets a terrible cycle of I can't get relief so it's it's no good so reported this hundred hundred hundred thing really will help one of the things we can help you with if you go to love my Tommy.com/spooning the coupon to get out trying to which the molecules that are antiaging we need to make sure you make 200 to help IS what I think I need the account. It'll be interesting to see what we could do to collaborate probably sometime in the future to find out how using different therapies together can actually help us achieve our golden kids long talked about PTSD and CTE's got a friend to play down long-term football and has had close friends of his that unfortunately CT got the best of man these he got a personal interest Junior to find out what he can do to serve some of his his colleagues in terms of CTE improvement I should be a first-line medical treatment for kids are playing so I keep having more comfortable because it's not football as far as I can censure you. Yeah that's a yes vote for football focus point there was a recent very brave thing for you.whatever the first episode or not but there was a recent journal article that came out were unfortunately they did autopsies on teenagers who were killed and they show that even minimal amount is real football players American purple players minimal amount of trauma already started to show inflammation in the brain it's going to get from jumping the CT from drug run roller coaster maybe that we just only to walk around with PBM helmet so that I can't just sit in on CVD is a lot help if he had cemented Beasley's knees-sweating like to not have my most sense well it makes great sense well that we had a great last half-hour of the show is really get into some your great stories got a additional I a tooth extraction story want to talk about with some analgesia using the laser light therapy and course risk and wrap up and see what James Gill has offered to show love to have you done it you catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror I'm I'm one of those people you don't want to see naked IBM most of us but I mean you look and you're going to die I don't get whatever all its horrible stock Townsend and Brad Staggs to tell you about a different way to shed those pounds this is brand-new technically been around for a couple years or so it was based on research from the University of California but said there is a molecule called OEA that's found naturally in your body produces it in the Mediterranean diet that when taken in concentrated amounts it will actually make you feel fuller and boost your metabolism I lost about 10 pounds so far is amazing now is cool company said we can take this to market to make this great product will help you it's called read you zone our IDU zone.com our IDU zone.com Brad's workers were comrades work for me countless other people go to read you zone.com and try today you're going to love it read you zone.com remember that our IDU zone.com take the pain out of ordering your diabetic testing supplies with diet Thrive diatribe ships the testing supplies you need directly to you when you need them best of all with plan starting as low as eight dollars a month diatribe is probably going to cost you less than what you're paying today diatribe is so convinced that you love their service they're offering your first month of supplies free simply type the Kodak DOC and check out diet Thrive.com that's DIA Thrive.com are you tired of high cable TV rates sign up for dish today and get a $500 bonus offer while supplies last loss locking your price for two years guaranteed call All-American dish your dish authorized retailer now 800-570-6630 800-570-6630 – 800-570-6630 authors required for vocation 20 from early termination fee instructions apply call for that's what happened LOL anyway so the microphones that have been a small issue David doesn't have accidents happy there just opportunities because while we were there you brought up something super cool our friends we just met last week in Utah you was talking to us a little bit and James has some expense with us it is so we are friends we met Kevin introduce us to an issue that that we were very familiar with also called lipid team and just so happens that issues of edema and little edema are things that James years quite familiar with and the extremes they've utilized Thor while I didn't think set up as a reminder this is the last half hour episode number five of the get your project here with your host Dr. Kent Brown and today were being joined by CEO of Thor laser Mr. James Carol James what were your your stores that you had to feedback on a deep you pick my Health I am so usually can't undertake some pictures you shall reaction on your faces and then ultimately canonize a soldier so this is a see her foot Scott had an ankle sprain his second-degree ankle sprain and these patient is put their foot in a was go to foot voltmeter sums about the water and then now this pipe it to see you Show the displaced Wharton that tells you which Capt. baked which is calibrated it tells you how much volume the reason that Littman Nicholas if it's going to deem it swollen therefore hopefully when he gets down the next time you do a little shy less by as her as a result so there must have experiments done so these are supplies of godly second-degree ankle sprains and they going to get rest ice compression elevation therapies or rice is a cold rice plus placebo rust present active laser treatment and the orange balls here show that the greatest reduction in edema over the following 72 hours is in the active laser treatment. This is significant you can say significantly reducing the amount of edema and in the name of these patients Hannah get into that celebs tend to an ultra story so there's that that's the foot for this we watching on the screen and then now you consider putting the football he me to head which measures displacement of water tells volume of the limb and then he is just about see the grouse UMMC the numbers by the orange ball compares the volume reduction in the limitless the reduction of edema in the patient to have the laser treatment versus those who did not have the laser treatment all of the measured intervals you can deftly tell that the laser treatment outperformed everything absolutely so that Sandy can out the next one maybe you can sit to the screen that you and in the distance but you saying is this is the shoulder disclosing something up his aching kind of civic better you say so that is the clavicle fracture clavicle okay and it's been plated six headsets has having to put a plate on the front to clavicle that is going to get signed up and then three days later this patient gets home to his wife you have to be a dentist use the product and this is the scar is little bit of life. And there's the Scott you can see all the puffy edema around the scar here and then she gives it a laser treatment and use it. Batman below and how is Leisa only thing has gone fascinating so this is good at reducing edema so this would work this actually reduces edema in the subcutaneous tissue with what it actually removed from the adipose tissue as well I think think so otherwise I think will be looking a lot thinner every time you get in so I'm a little I mean in the situation with the word talk about there are certain disease processes where the body will accumulate excess fluid is insomuch that the one that I really am excited to see if it works on is our friend who this is like liquid liquid the name of the Messiah that will festival the people who treat lymphedema which after breast cancer so God have mistake to Mandel that had recently placed taken out the arm swells up and it went go down because the text of the lymphatic system away all this fibrosis in the tissues it moves the fluid and so that's a medical condition after breast removal Loftus lymph nodes being taken out for breast cancer patients so grace woke surveys but washed out from the screen I can see that but that there is data that shows that this treatment and is a systematic review and let it show which confirms that this treatment will reduce the lot lymphedema and these people who use our product for lymphedema tell me also works for lymphedema while yes so that's anecdotal I haven't seen anything published will see this little essay because her friend is desperate the door to that point where people are being blown off you want to know why a lot of people are turning to functional medicine and I consider this a an arm of functional medicine yet you talk about you irrationally enthusiastic yes they are it's a lot of doctors and got frustrated I consider myself a functional gastroenterologist coming just open to it but a lot of people keep going to doctors and they essentially get blown all yes we got nothing more for him but he said the only course of action for her to take right now it's been effective and apparently only affects females and usually occurs after pregnancy is that she has to go and get routine Microsoft and that was what was then it always come back yet casual order now I would love to see if this was this one this one sucks a anecdotal but it is from people who specialize in lymphedema so curious I would left and I love to connect with a certain treatment center so you are the commitment to let directly will go through our website and we do love your case report on that if it works the changes in cities you live in Austin okay so I did a follow-up so I'll promise the listeners that we would also address macular degeneration and yes dry weapons two kinds wet and dry AMD okay most people have the workforce for the trifle and it's untreatable that 10 to 15% in the United States of patients who have dry AMD didn't graduate from college for smart Holos I did not know that there are two kinds of macular degeneration very well there is also two eyes they got so to get the best Shaun of the screen here is so hateful kids in my kitchen and if you don't have AMD you should have seen my K but if you develop AMD you begin to lose is not obvious 60 not pleasant but there is now there is now a bit slightly fuzzy picture in the middle you lose central vision and to get distortions in your vision as well so you might see some distortion that when it gradually as it gets worse you just contrast sensitivity are welcome but will black-and-white your losing some of the conflict, sensitivity and then you begin to develop these blind spots eases geographic atrophy and that and this gets worse until you go blind and something happens quite late in life you to picking the 70s but some people can begin in the 50s and what that means is that you don't people in that kind of age group do not learn to read braille they done learn to use white steak they can no longer drive the car much TV they can't read this is a really got the quality of life lost is horrible for these people and these people come about and to their friends and family that's hot that's horrible for them as well not just for the family but for the individual hates being about and can't see losing sight is is is horrific I member I got to know the Surgeon General of the nonstate Tommy and that she was the first woman Surgeon General and she said that when she visited troops back from the Middle East that that have limbs blown off and also to wounds in pain and said but the one thing that was she kept hearing was such that if you could think there's one thing you could fix what might could you fix my eyesight not having my eyesight he said on the key people my other and just about my eyesight back and she says it's just terrible that there was no effective treatment for diseases and injuries to the eye is effective well what you going to see here is a device which we make specifically for ophthalmologists to treat EI in another company down the cofounder and investor include Louis Sarah.com UMI TH TH TRA set limits outcome we develop… Specifically for formulas for treating disease of the on and we've treated hundreds of patients prior to a clinical trial we know it works reducing the visual acuity charts and now we finished a randomized controlled clinical trial visiting my screen so you went to El Torito from Napa beginning at three treatments a week for three weeks and the second round of treatment at six months as well and that because he couldn't have no treatment and we have some competency but we did the low dose for this is a hiatus which you should be able to see me on that screen that is that the full proper dose treatment people have improvement in the visual kit this is for the dry form which is untreated people with a.m. with wet AMD can have injections in the right right/progression so big it we've got patients in them and folk groups is a group which got high vision get a full dose or low-dose treatments we can see these are improvements in visual acuity on the Snellen chart which you see said they had three series of treatments up to one month and then we checked improvement and then Vic seems to improve to three months and have a second course of treatment to seven months but if you stop treatment it goes away so that's for the high vision group so they will be early stage AMD late stage MD a slow epic improve rate of improvement if you stop treatment that you guys wakes up even if not how long this is treatment what for amounts raised was 2 ounces it either last forever or you going to continue treatment if you've got a traumatic injury you the bus runs of my foot and I heal it with my laser light I'm healed forever that how long it lasts sure but if you go to chronic degenerative condition let macular degeneration or Lycos arthritis will you Alzheimer's some of the form of dementia that is always going to come back so you will be on a stretcher like this where you probably have in a course of three treatments wait for us for three weeks and then you come back again in six months and probably every six months the rest of your life is probably worth the price of vision yeah absolutely so somebody just messaged us what about diabetic retinopathy absolutely yes so we haven't done LCT so that randomized controlled trials that we know from people use this technology that they have treated the success fee that is a published paper on it, member fits a placebo-controlled trial but their scent have been published reports on this there's an underlying theme here it seems almost as if there is tissue especially nervous tissue to be repaired regenerated elected central nervous system disorders don't heal I don't hear very well right will with a lot of Scottish people we had the one thing I wanted to get into which I thought the I do want to get into it too early now or realize when the show is flying by its targets on a cellular level what's going on yes so maybe it seems that is probably more than one mechanism but the mechanism we know best and lonely but my State Farm is the effect of mitochondria and specifically where the light gets absorbed in such a crime scene oxidized so for those of you I have studied biology memo chemistry serving on the school without the M study anything but what I've learned because you know because I consumables like to be a layperson with these things so every cell in the body has have these mitochondria inside the job of mitochondria to make the central center energy called ATP and they do this by combining the food to be beaten with the ad that we breathe so when we will be breathing and oxygen attached to hemoglobin hemoglobin is can run the body by these red blood cells erythrocytes they deliver oxygen three provide the bloodstream to every single cell in the body the take to get her to the top of your head option gets its way to every cell in the body when we eat food we break it down into glucose and fat stored as glycogen but ultimately gets passed around to every single thing about in the form of glucose glucose goes through a process of the three main steps is glycolysis where glycolysis breaks down glucose into little bit of ATP can little bit of energy from I get to ATPs from glucose molecule we also get some nickel pyruvate and pyruvate is then broken down further by the mitochondria job of the month condors Festival this is to get this to games and that is the Krebs cycle breaks down to FAD H and NADH and the electron transport chain combines FATA and NADH with oxygen to make lots of hydrogen ions Drive ATP synthase C make ATP and that's my 62nd introduction my love that we open the show talking about performance athletes because that is exactly performance athlete uses these the Krebs cycle and then producing any DPH is correct so that's great when it's working but when were sick when when injured mom was stressed and just gradually as we get old something is wrong on mitochondria stop to make a molecule called nitric oxide what you heard of before my people aware of and think is a good thing but there's four different sources of nitric oxide this inducible nitric oxide synthase which makes all the bad stuff you want to be around that much cosine is neuronal not to cook side and this anything you not cocci which but most people learn about and is one that we always talk about Dilation of vessel yes right so but but but to I'm talking about another one which most people wouldn't learn about Cove mitochondrial nitric oxide and it has been known to regulate the production of ATP what it does is it binds to the terminal ends on the transport chain such concealed today's based the blocks consumption of oxygen and it seems under stress and hypoxia also a monthly make too much of this looks respiration such that the only NADH combined with oxygen outcomes help today's two electrons to have the end of the transport chain but when it's blocked this process stops electron transport chain becomes constipated and that's when he stopped to make superoxide and Haydn peroxide these are the free radicals that last part one more time when we so when Ralph if for such consent states is blocked by not courtside Elton, getting the con combined with an 88 and the electrons don't get handed off the end of electron transport chain then your electron transport chain is not caused by the electron flow stops that's when you stop to make superoxide Hodgman Brooks on which of the free radicals which are the archer to prevent defense to stop the process of inflammation and cell death fascinating trigger your genetic weaknesses so instead they have an effect on the Gibson gene transcription factors like and if A baby translocation to the nucleus and how that salt information but wait the point here is that one of the mechanisms that we know something about is how whenever we put like we do sell studies we put light on sales you see this flush of nitric oxide come out he releases it from the cell and then you get this increase in ATP and ultimately a reduction in oxidative stress the free radicals start information and cell death to summarize basely what you said is y'all been able to demonstrate that utilizing your therapy you been able to diss displaced the nitric oxide which is preventing our normal mitochondria which are trying to produce energy for our cell they've not been able to do it and so the slide is allowing that mitochondria now to work for us yes he seems to restore mitochondrial function so I'd have to say that we need this model was more work to be dominant hand exactly understanding these processes away what the role not to cosign ROS and ATP we know there'll joined up receipt is not cultlike, we see a blinking hourly soft with what comes back down below baseline in stressed inflammatory cells this is a busy little concerts come out for your audience and if the note went up and I know we just we just left a lot of people know the last half hour this is the part I was rather excited about because we thought about this all the time we talk about polyphenols in broken down by your own micro bio map in the post biotics which can produce things like your role within your Lutherans a molecule that causes like half a G my topic G is where an old and sick mitochondria go I'm done this going to die right and what were talking about here is know they they don't the.you just need to clean them out a little bit so I change the air filter unblock this and let it start running again because that's all mitochondria are the just powerhouse no we do everything now houses but they also have love important signaling qualities as well and they are the things that Yahweh will free radicals come from dysfunctional mitochondria is it probably is a powerhouse and but when things go wrong there that are applicable to their nuisance but you do need tomorrow as we know that one of the other mechanisms we know that ROS is important for triggering the stem cells that help regenerate abilities and help us make new immune cells as well just the first half hour we talked about this that's what horny senses when you stress the body is sauna you turn on heat shock protein yes when you fast you do stem cell regeneration this is the how the body adapts problem is when you have continual you have to have a great you have to recover yes and what James is referencing in case you're wondering when he says ROS its reactive oxygen species reactive oxygen species you know what I listen to Rhonda Patrick you know she's a hopefully a this is the this the kind of stuff I love this is what she does stuff about chemistry over time became academic friends a set of ditching and at some point in the segment is at this this and this, I think there are some wavelengths which affect film membrane permeability and ability to exchange calcium ions and now there are some mechanisms we don't yet understand people want to talk about other like accepting molecules like options which more like to absorb blue wavelengths of light and so slow to acknowledge that there are other of the mechanisms involved this whole stem cell triggering is not fully understood yet maybe another mechanism so you just explained in great detail in the fantastic quick way that could end up being a whole course on it so what is going what's going on so level now let's get back to the original thing that we started to talk about which is depth nutrition and disease and I want to say a disease state so for instance one of the things somebody just message me on was if you have arthritis in a joint like a ricin how many treatments how deeply get into the science of that particular thing so I got I'm a massage therapist my wrist is messed up and it's affecting my career I'm a gastroenterologist and I got tenosynovitis in one joint that is the most common disability the people in my field well folks will most exciting I've seen in this field it's been demonstrated in animals and lost one clinical trial to this 15 lease randomized controlled trials most arthritis one of them is shown by dim blood tests and monitoring MRIs there increase in joint space in the blood test revealed that with these patients a makeable conflict which is remarkable so we getting an anti-inflammatory effect and regenerative effects making coffee to as shown in one particular study thanks I find interesting and but also information in some tendon updates as well is going down south Umatilla .2 talking to this treatment will go comfortably you can treat one to maybe just back at like 3 cm have a sufficient dose if you treat long enough yes for an resisting can get little a few photos of 45 at centimeters something but it does seem to work we do have is what so well on the brain or any other deep target is because probably to do with this blood flow and this is another mechanisms we will releasing not cut side from other molecules improving blood flow and I think this explains a lot of the benefits which are outside of the penetration range of the light there are these indirect effects make sense of you can increase blood flow allowing cells to produce their own energy are going to increase healing that's exactly what your heat which are damaged tissue is going to quantities more blood flow yet so there's a whole lot more going on than just depth of penetration something is wondering when you're talking about the brain in the world are we helping depression and PTSD yes I think it's this is a major component of blood flow I'm apparently too far with my get too comfortable now right for you to sleep that's the issue I just want to own or as we call FCM fire chat mode right now liking that deposition Gerard also shown but I will a couple of other avenues not found a personally interesting were course can be a gastroenterologist you you'll have some reason that on the micro biome touch on that in the things I found for me being anesthesia provider you made reference to analgesic properties the yelp utilizes that you either did your own tooth extraction logic polluted that what I did to my own my own anesthesia filled out with laser light on the night she pulled the string easy to find position on my screen I thought I got ready left on the other screen that sick Jeff that we have people sending us in the articles that he's very mild while you being email the actual articles that were brain that were bringing up so that's awesome here we got line up to the best position at this is my right so I for I had a root canal some years ago which eventually failed it was a fracture in the root and then becomes infected so you have to have the tooth taken out and I want to see how good the pain relief could be with this so I treated my methods so the demonstration for so this is my tooth extraction labels yours and my dry face I face and that the board take the tooth so that means I was pleasantly in the good bit mi think that's a bit weird with the law states has already been loosened often they come to the pole and on the tooth severe my dentist blood to be look away say grabbing peaceful steps and then pulled that taste so it done on the laser anesthesia laser industries extend that please write so what we do here is a treat around the mandible so here's the outside of the mandible and the lease up with the publicans in the TV but the screen it is get some active drawing a blank line to represent the buccal none of that runs down the outside of your gums was an integral gums but outside of the mandible I treated three points on math for three minutes each which is quite long time in a field so that's now spent nine minutes on that side and nine minutes on the inside you yourself yes and so the practice of myself when I went to the dentist that she do it for me Genesis tree in your in your Jan is my dentist will so basically you are to enter rational dentists get a lot you to yes actually Ken that had the implant done as well when I was the post CSO then you let the mandible he'll be that soft tissues he'll be back a few months later and again cut the soft tissues and no local no local drill hole and screwing the metal so it all out and without feeling anything for those who read you can see that I see it long and saying are you serious answers and fantastic this is not it is not that's awesome it was mixed he takes longer than an honest irregular and aesthetically spending 20 minutes treating with a laser maybe working less time maybe is a quick way but I wasn't thinking this is this is not to revolutionize the dentistry industry this is just shows on yourself you're willing to put your money where your mouth is generally and you did that incredible quick question about that so if I remember the conversation correctly whenever you are describing this you are able to maintain motor movement correct yes and so by doing so much a function is a bit that interest me in that aspect of so would you say that the laser is more susceptible to work on a ferret nerves then he fair nerves maybe because myelination maybe maybe affect those other basically a fair nursery listing are those that carry pain sensory and whatnot back to spinal cord and even nurses how your central nervous system tells your muscles to move so the same thing happens whenever we do neuromuscular blockade Roger local I'll be able to stop innervation of the sensory and then but I know if I lose movement that I've covered everything so is it, the yeah I so you usually don't see any effect on motor function but I know people treat small animals because that smaller and if we use the same dose as we do in the human that maybe it Has come relief to have problem movies like sometimes have to run from out of seconds not minutes often after antigen analgesic treatment to the spine so we can overdo it on cats and small dogs expenses this makes total sense I would love the bar when I've had Eric drive me to the piercing shop several times Rosalie get a bellybutton ring that I chicken out each time now I will nevertheless you have no more time is no excuse for any pretenders these are in the mouth and if it probably shouldn't do that again we all believe it or not we are about to wrap up two hours really have just under two minutes left to go every single thing we referenced on here will you have quick links bleakness next week for all of our listeners will have the new podcast format up all the show notes will have the links back to everything James this is talked about in your next swim through we come through our Downham is absolutely yes been fun it's incredible information Ben-Ami if you were to find somebody local does store laser again just to out to make them aware they could go to Thor laser.com laser.com for the laser medical side of things and then the whole body treatment system is athletes using mess with things well never thought of and so my mission heal the gut protect the brain get people to sleep and working to be a healthier society protect the brain so important what's the point of doing everything that you're doing if you're depressed or if you're in pain or if you get dementia or Alzheimer's I think all of it leads to inflammation what you're talking about is a decrease in cellular information this is fascinating it is fast and deep don't have you want to go into depth on the Dell have high endurance athletes that you currently treat that you keep up with the see how they been able to recover from sports injuries not falling on a day-to-day basis but the Nike team are all mandated the middle and long distance runs and Nokia all mandated to use a light bed at least three times a week and that is slow fascinating stuff check out a gut check project.com you can also find a gadget project.com B directs the store and find your own KB MD CBD as well as your own personal John teal@lovemytummy.com/spoony don't forget to check the show notes of this particular podcast next week will have everything from Mr. James Carroll always in UK to come and talk to us about the Thor laser brings people in from the UK if you're not using the spoony codes we get on that lobotomy.com/that's right so much for joining us today I also really appreciate you next week this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun we're spooning hi I'm Jay Ferner CO Quicken loans 30% of Americans who are planning home improvement of $5000 or more will pay for those renovations with a high interest credit card that may not be a great idea a better idea may be to take cash out of your home with the Quicken loans 30 year fixed-rate mortgage the rate today in our 30 year fixed-rate mortgage is 3.99% APR 4.08% call us today at 800 Quicken or go to rocket mortgage.com rates of exchange 125% be received at the rate of consecration into the state and now I found from Geico motorcycle it took 15 minutes to take a spirit animal quiz online please be the cheetah please be the cheetah and learn your animal 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Marc is the ONLY known 5 year survivor of de-differentiated chondrosarcoma. A former D1 football player for the University of Texas, father of 3, and devoted husband learned almost a decade ago that his life was most likely to soon come to a close. With his optimistic and make the most of it attitude, Marc is beyond 9 years of being in remission for a once thought to be incurable condition. Marc has since turned his experience into giving back and has become a private pilot and flies today's cancer sufferers to treatment from North Texas (Decatur), and volunteers his time with many charities including Raquel's Wings For Life.
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Hey hi Mandy if you don't know me it's probably because I'm not famous but I did start a men's grooming company called Harry's the idea for Harry's came out of a frustrating experience I had buying razor blades most brands were overpriced overdesigned and out of touch and here is our approach is simple here's our secret we make sharp durable blades and sell them at honest prices for as low as two dollars each we care about quality so much that we do some crazy things by world-class German blade factory obsessing over every detail means were confident in offering 100% quality guarantee millions of guys have already made the switch to Harry's so thank you if you're one of them and if you're not we hope you give us a try with the special offer get a Harry starter set with a five blade razor weighted handle shave gel and a travel cover all for just three bucks plus free shipping just go to Harry's.com and enter 5000 at checkout that's Harry's.com code 5000 enjoy and here we are it is episode number four of get Jake project here with Dr. Kenneth Brown I am Eric Rieger again hey doing today I'm doing fantastic episode number Quatro number Quatro that is Spanish for radio no as mentioned before that is Spanish number four yes you are you pretty well versed in Spain Georgia were bilingual home absolutely well do you like to speak Spanish and I'm probably the worst speaker in the house. Let's say okay hey just a quick tough nod off the jump don't forget that today's episode of gut check project is brought to you by John Teal get your own genteel@lovemytummy.com/spooning use code spoony same sums of money so have I been taking some voiceless and also trying to nail that the throne going it's going horrible was that it was that your that you shot that was my best shot is that you back also brought to you by KPMG health brand-new KB TCDD but now you can get to the gut check project.com and be linked directly to the KPMG store and find your own KPMG CBD awesome baby if I gargle with that before trying single improvement it could work well we got a great show today and were going to get to him in just a moment that our guest today is Mark simple minimal touch on that here in just a moment incredible story of survival new lease on life and what he's doing after his battle with cancer but if you been watching get check project for all of the last three weeks you know that dark to our first half-hour is news and notes for gut check project so Dr. Brown what's happening new in the Brown household here since Elisha well in the Brown household what's really exciting is my daughter in her improv it's just theatric class she's a sixth-grader she came home and taught me something really really good that basically whatever you doing improv what you have to do is say yes it's yes and secondly if dues trust third thing is listen and then the fourth thing is make a statement and I heard that no like I need your teacher to come over to KBS headquarters we can work on that as a teambuilding exercise improv exercise to make a team yes and I love that yes and and then I want to trust what's coming next I loved this pretty while the basically an improv class she is learning just great communication skill left I thought we were laughing about it last night so Zachary know to come home with like what you learned today and that's were talking about the really cool thing our house is my son is currently playing in the finals of a really big tennis tournament out in Indian Wells California the Easter bowl to big one so at 11 o'clock our time he will be playing in the finals were very very proud of it in both singles and doubles so the brown households having some good times right now about you well number one shout out to Lucas and Karla those are both the great notes to to be able to carry around the data know that you're proud of both of them for me both of the boys have moved into off-season basketball there really fired up they've been out of basketball all of about 10 days which I think if you shoot who apparently that's way too long so they both get started but something that we did as a family that was a lot of fun just a little week ago I should've mentioned it last week show I'd never done it before my oldest son actually done it before a couple of times and that is we all sat down relaxed and got pedicures and I'm here to tell you that include dad included nice if you haven't done it don't knock it did you try it because I'm going back that fell awesome and now I mean table I got really ticklish feet but I didn't know something learned about myself is that my left foot is more ticklish than my right because as they began to exfoliate the bottom of my foot especially the left side I was crying from laughing so hard as I got in my mouth and of course the other woman doing is looking up and laughing again with everyone else as they exchanged their own jokes in another language I'd alsojust like Spanish and did it at my expense was completely worth it and I will deftly be back so I almost got a pedicure once I know standing out front and I looked at my feet and it remind me of the scene from dumb and dumber with a grinder to toenails a wireless want to do that to anybody to put the clause back in the shoe keep on walking now is he always worried he wanted done it when I reveal like a Frito toenail or anything else like that but I think I walked away as best we can be that had since probably I was a baby's kids really good pedicure now don't even have to ask what you been up to because you and I rush to hang out we were this last weekend he and Emily were business makes a little bit of pleasure yeah and that was in the Utah powder mountain that was awesome incredible skiing lots of powder fantastic so much snow for late March he was beautiful is a great place to go and visit not crowded either now our ski experiences were little bit differently where they were loaded and so to put it in context Eric was like Kelly dropping and taking these tractors up and I actually had escorted down the mountain by two wonderful people Lindsay Vaughn and Susie Chapstick but it was Juliet and Karen are awesome so I survive it was a big thing didn't break anything didn't do anything but the our expenses were totally different you came back just on my couch that was incredible backcountry all powder and I was like oh yeah my little different I had two women sort of guiding me down the mountain the whole way so there's no shame in effect I'll even say whenever you but whenever we yeah got into our skis the first day you had planned on even making a few runs together it was snowing so hard I stopped to buckle up my helmet is safe and I looked up and Ken and the other four people that I was skiing with were gone they probably want you probably want 20 feet away from me but it was a complete wideout for the first what our we skied oh no I Don't I ended up staying in that area and like true why don't I lost everybody like it was you couldn't see your hand in front of you who not only did I not been skiing over 10 years that's not the way to start now and shout out to Blake Kingsbury for finding me he looked like a yeti lost in a snowstorm and that basically was my beacon on the way down I had no idea how to get down but dad know that was that was a great time up it to powder mountain if you like skiing snow skiing deep powder skiing you take yourself a big powder mountain we move on here a little bit to basically the news because yesterday while we were working at the Indocin or you ran up to me you said look at this study this is a little bit more in terms of what we've been talking about bore catalysts and what causes cancer I will let you take it over from there because it's pretty pretty incredible piece but thought it was so it was just published a photo so appropriate to have Mark on the show were duly talking about cancer and surviving cancer well in this just recently published in the Journal of science this month they did a study with a looked at how high fructose corn syrup actually enhances colon cancer in mice so what they did is they took the equivalent of one soda a day and they gave the mice that amount of fructose corn syrup the issue is that they had genetically engineered these mice so that they would get polyps and cancer sure which is funny because you wonder like your to be genetically engineered you never think that your to get that like I'm genetically engineered to be faster genetically engineered bigger stronger than one poor mouse is like on genetically engineered to get cancer and that's how they end up looking at these different studies so what they did as they showed that by giving the high fructose corn syrup dramatically raise the amount of polyps and cancer over 80 times the mice that were not given high fructose corn so this is with an equivalent of one soda one soda a day so it's absolutely incredible because I love your member but a year ago study came out where was looking at how the rate of colon cancer millennial's has been going to share we did a video on that on YouTube or Ricardo was we did the interpretive jujitsu and what it showed is it dealt with the millennial's were getting a higher rate of colon cancer because of obesity they should with these mice they did not become obese they did not develop metabolic syndrome it's strictly due to the fructose and the sugar that they were consumed then they were able to actually show that I take it was fructose the tumor cells love it so much that they could put a radioisotope and they could show that it just got sucked up it turns on certain genes that allows the tumor to go undetected absolutely fascinating because the fructose and that the high fructose corn syrup they believe could be very similar to others like table sugar bottom line is tumors love sugar and this is the first study that's been done were really actually look at that and it's actually fascinated Mileage Is about to Come to Clear My Throat What This Actually Shows Is Now They're Looking at How to Actually Adapt Fasting Plus Ketogenic Diet When You Have Two More Surprises If You Can Give Him Sugar That's Just Going to Absolutely Feed It like Crazy so Fascinating Study Just One Soda a Day Can Do This Just Write down A Few Things Here Because You Said A Lot Of Impressive Information so If We Were to Backtrack and We Can Take Away That Tumor Cells Love Sugar and Live They Love Circulating Glucose That's Going to Be Their Main Desired Use for Energy and That's How They Grow They Don't Have Energy They Can't Grow Something Else That You Said and There Was Was Really Captivating to Me and That Is They Were Able to Take the High Fructose Corn Syrup after Consumed and Basically Activate A Process Where the Body Could Not Detect That They Were Tumors Themselves so Not Only Were They Now Stealing the Energy so They Could Continue to Grow As a Cancer And Develop into a Bigger Tumor Diesel Tumors Now Are Being Able or Allowed to Activate Something Where They Were Basically Incognito Not Being Able to Be Detected by the Mice and Their Immune System Greg Will Exactly Actually Gets into so This Is Where I Start Getting into the Geeky Stuff Little Bit There's an Enzyme Called Keto Hexokinase Which Will Change Fructose into Fructose One Phosphate While That Turns on The Gene in the Tumor to Use the Glucose More so That's What Tells It to Absorb It More so It Actually Little Cascade and They've Actually Shown the Third Trying to Develop Drugs That Actually Block That So There's Ashley Phase 2 Clinical Trials Going on with Her Trends If They Can Block That One Little Enzyme Does That Sure so What Then The Able or Would We Then Be Able to Extrapolate That Maybe the Reason Why Millennial's Are Now Seeing an Increase In Colon Cancer Is Because Generationally Probably If We Were to Back It up Two or Three Generations We've Seen an Increase in Sugar Consumption People Believe That Sugar Is Related to Inflammation That Those Two Things Combined Together Are Now We Are Seeing an Increase in These Types of Cancers They're Being Detected Because When You Consume Any Type of Food He Goes Straight to Your G.I. Tract Would You Say That This Is Somewhat Related or Possibly Related Will That Was the Funny Part Is This Study Gets You Thinking about That Because When They When They Were This Is the First Time That We Have Seen People Having a Higher Incidence of Colon Cancer Than Their Parents Rights for Simon so It Was Speculated over It's Gotta Be Obesity It's Gotta Be the Metabolic Syndrome This Is the First One Would You Look at Something Ago Now Looks like It's the Way That Were Processing Food The High Fructose Corn Syrup Is in Everything Everything but It's Really Concentrated One Can of Soda and so the Consumption of Soda Has Increased since the 80s Significantly So Is It Our Diet That's Doing This Were Trying to Label It with Different Things Owed Sedentary Lifestyle or Possibly It Smoking or Whatever Now Looks like Our Diet Is Really Contributing to the Amount of Cancers That Were Seeing You It's Wild If You Just Look Back I Can Never Looking Back at Pictures of My Dad or My Mom Growing up and What Family Pictures Look like Whenever They Went on Vacation He Would See Everyone and All the Ancillary Players in the Photographs Around And Who They Considered to Be Overweight Back Then In the 50s and 60s and Stephen the 70s And It's Starkly Different Than the Then the Body Type so What People Look like Today and What We Consider Overweight and for Me Personally I Really Don't Even Point It Those People It's Just Our Food Supply Is so Inundated With Lots of Things That You Just Are Unaware Could Possibly Be Contributing to Natalie Being Overweight but Probably the Diseases That Maybe Are Going to Have That You Don't Even Know the Are Manifesting Right Now Unfortunately Possibly Even Colon Cancer for Millennial Becomes Really Kind of the Disheartening That They Are Actually Allowing or They'd the Insurance Companies Are Allowing Us to Screen People at an Earlier Age and They Wouldn't Do It If It Weren't In Balance with with Cost It's Always More Cost-Effective to Catch a Cancer Early Then Late so If They Are Allowing People to Not Have To Wait till 50 To Come in and Just Get Their First Screening and Now They've Lowered It Doubly 4545 and If There's a Family History of Violence Then It's 42 Start to Begin and That Was Not That Way It All 10 Years Ago for Sure It Was an End It's Fascinating Because Here I Am I Just Got This Article Yesterday You and I Were I Was Doing Colonoscopies Yesterday and I Just Started Jumping up and down Because I Realize That When Patients Go into Recovery Most of Them Are Given a Can of Soda after They Get out There Sentiment. To That Right Now Were to Put a Stop Ides I Told All the Nurses Alike No More so to Tour Patients Were Trying to Stop Colon Cancer And Were Causing It by Drinking Minnesota so We Should At Least Lead by Example Would Be Given Patients a Pack of Cigarettes with Her Leaving the Endo Center I Got Admit It Did Nobody in the Hospital System Seems to and from RT Friends at Them so I Bet If You Want to Find the Smoking Dock Just Look for the Respiratory Therapist outside of the Hospital Why That's the Same at Every Single Hospital Ultimate Training Every Hospital Billing I Don't Know Either It It's It's It's Really Kind of Fascinating Hey Before We Might Give Any Other Quick Takeaways from This Particular Study Rotates Just That This One Is Just so Impressive Because It Really Shows That the Way That We May Be Treating Cancers in General Is Wrong so I Talked to Some My Cancer.Friends of My Katie Put People in a Ketogenic Diet Greatly When the Do That No We Don't Do You Ever Use Fasting When Somebody Has Us and We've Discussed before That the Fasting Mimicking Diet Actually Has Been Shown to Improve The Effect of Chemo And Decrease the Amount of Side Effects but That's Still Not Being Implemented so Here Is One Example It Always Starts out As Animal Studies Are Which Is When Humans but I Think That This Is the First Step to Show Hey Proper Treatment of Cancer Is to Starve It Not to Just Dump a Bunch of Sugar on It Which Is What Were Kinda Doing Yeah Isn't It Interesting That Maybe Even When Your Body Is Trying to Recover from an Episode of Cancer Not Just When It's Chemo Induced but When People Begin to Lose Weight Everyone Immediately Becomes Concerned Possibly It's Sometimes the Body Just Knows What He Wants to Do And by Starving These Tumors from the Circulating Glucose Is Its First Mechanism of Defense We've Got to Stop Feeding This Is Base Leads Rogue Cell Or Whatever It Is It Happens to Be Going Out Of Control Yeah… That I Think It's Faster Oh Did You See the Speaking Fascinated to See That That's California Man Was Awarded $80 Million Because He Had 56 Acres That He Was Using Roundup for Decades $80 Million That Is so Wild That It so It's an Incredible That It It Took This Long to Find out about and We Were Spraying It on Everything so We've Got Dividing up the Deck Stacked against You If You Got a Carcinogen on Your Food Chair and Then If You're Going to Take the Corn Fructose Which the Horn Was Sprayed Right Now We've Got a Double Whammy Going on Right There You I Can or When the First Big Move in a Big Push of the Non-GMO Foods This 90 Mode Foods That and I Was Really Rather Ignorant in Terms of What That Actually Meant And It Was Really Easy to Find Detractors from People Who Were Reporting That Movement like All They're Just They're Just Afraid They Were Doing New Technology in Food Development and Etc. so Much More Than That It Comes down to Protecting You and Yourself from Carcinogens Which Can't Taste You Can't Detect You Have No Idea You Have the Healthiest Person in the World Is Exercising Not Smoking Trying to Eat Right And While They Are Eating the Foods That They Trust Such As a Great Piece of Broccoli Vegetable Actually Consuming Glyphosate or Roundup In Their Food and They Get Sick That I Read Another Article Which Showed If You're Exposed to Round up on a Regular Basis You Have over a 41% Chance of Getting Lymphoma Hodgkin's Lymphoma I Don't Know Where They Got That That I Need to Find the Actual Article but in This Particular Study They Were Referencing Ups I Think That Was Used As a Type of Cancer That That Man Got And That's Why He Was Awarded This so Probably for a Follow-Up Episode Because What We Do Here Is Always Try to Speak into the Facts and Know That We Seen the Trend on Various Types of Cancers Including Lymphoma Have Been Increasing I Just Don't Have It on Hand That We Will Tackle That Probably in a Future Episode in Terms of the Non-GMO Versus GMO Roundup Life Estate Is or Has To Be Something to Though Because You Have the Lymphoma Belt in the United States Which Is Nebraska and Iowa Run from Agronomy and That's What University Breast Is so Good at Transplants Because They're One of the First Places to Do the Autologous Bone Rail Transport Because They Were Seen so Much Leukemia and Lymphoma And They Didn't Technically Everyone Said They Couldn't Explain They Didn't Know What It Was But It's the Same Thing Is Whenever They First Figured out the Black Lung Was Kind of the Problem In Minutes It's Really No Different EE No One Created the Industry to Make People Sick but Once People Began to Get Sick It's like What's the Acclamation Here Are Just Kind Crazy Everybody's Getting Sick and You Realize It's a Sit in the Air and You It's It's Really No Different from the Time That You and I Went to Virginia We Worked in the Coal Mine That One Day Yeah with Zoo Lander Haplotype Man Man's Underrated Moving Speaking of Movies Are Yesterday's Sent Me His at His Top Five Movies or Lease That I Reminded Him of That He Wants to Cover Why Does He Send Them to Well He Said to Me Because I Was Just Curious on What He Would like to Talk about Ancillary to Some of His Incredible Story Already but Will Dig in and See How How Well He Actually Knows These Movies Whenever the Last Half Hour Rolls around and See What Mark Knows about His Own His Own Favor. He Descended to Her Did He Fill out Our Gut Check Project Intake Form That's a Good Question so If You Have Somebody July Can Nominate to Be on Our New Show Gut Check Project You Can Visit Us a Gut Check Project.com Go to Connect and since Some of the Way That You Think You Be a Good Fit for Get Your Project to Be Interviewed by Your Very Own Dr. Brown and on That Form of Course We Find out Really Little Bit Everything about Who It Is Going to Have on Show I Do Know It's the It's the Eric and Dr. Ron I'm Here to Just Pull up Movie Lines Occasionally When You Say Things like Black Long That's That's All I Could Think about Them like Julian Yeah Well You Know That That There's Nothing Wrong, Challenge You to Ask the Hard Questions Okay for Any of Our Guests Yeah What You Say That You so We I Think in the Future What We Should Do Is You We Should Have an over under Policy Only Jessica Make Riley Barbara Walters Style Okay Really Did Indeed Make Sense That Something I Met Me Physically or a Mean Just by My Emotional Place Was Funny Because I Actually at the Conference We Are at 01 of the Things Was They Had a Bunch of Movie Directors That Were Actually There They Were Discussing When They Start Doing like Dr. Series Interviews When the Guest Starts Becoming Uncomfortable That's When They Get Their Best Footage and They Really Start Pushing the Boundary Right There so That No Question That Make Sense Though Because It's Gonna Be the Emotion I Said, Raw Motion Is Coming out yet Exactly so If You Can Just Get Everything That's Real Let's Put on Them or Not Billy Gilbert in the Show Here It's Somebody's Review on Some People to like the Movie That Is What It Is but It's Real So before He Finishes the Last Half Hour One of the Main Questions That We Got since Our Last Episode and That We Get A Lot on Polyphenols CBD Really Bob about Your Hobbies but the One That Really Stuck out to Me That We Had Asked I Think Six Different Times Was How Does CBD Address Anxiety and We Don't Have a Whole Lot of Time Right Now but That You Take That You Would've Drilled a Hole Show on That but Basically the Way That I Tell My Patients Is CBD Just Sort of Presses the Reset Button and Puts Everything Back in Balance and If You Think of It Anxiety Is Just an over Firing Nervous like Sensitive Nerve Always Does Is Just Calm It down like a Traffic Cop so That You Just Get All the Anxiety Is Just a Perception of Neurons Firing Right below the Extreme Version Would Be Seizure Early on Just Because Everything down Gets to Go Back to Normal Now so I Kind of Explained It to My Patients Might Just Try It If You Have a Deficiency in Your Endo Cannabinoid System Chances Are You Can Have a Pretty Good Response with Wild Thing Is the Just of Multiple Applications for Utilizing The Indo Cannabinoid System Which Everyone Has In Their Own Body Basically Resetting Just like He Said to Make People Feel Better and There's a Bunch of Different Ways to Make It Happen but Rather Than Make It Sound like a Magic Pill for Everything We Really Want to Break That down and Build Keep Those Questions Coming Dealing with Anxiety Is Something You're Going to Have Someone on a Think in about Six Weeks I Think so You and at That Point Time Will Get a Much Much Much Deeper but Any Other Applications of CBD and Questions like That Combine with Polyphenols… Gasifier Questions Because This Is Holding Figure Who Do Other Episodes Definitely What Is the Old Anybody That Swimming Towards Us Asking a Question We Want to Address It and We Have the Ability to Bring Some Experts in and Were Just Gonna Make Sure That We Do This and Try to You Have Some Fun but Also to Work, Science Here and so We Want to Make Sure That We Use Science and Studies to Explain Everything in a Very Delay Term Hopefully We Can Do It Because the Other Cannabinoid System Is a Tough System to Explain He Said Were There Hopefully and That's Something That We Want to Do Today with Today's Guest Is Going to Join Us in the Next Half Hour Will Bring All Hope to Everyone This Is Our Next Guest Is Mark Simone and He Is the Only Documented Five Year Survival Are Survivor from D Differentiated Chondrocyte: Please Get an Incredible Story to Stick around He Is Taking His Journey and Turning It into His Way to Reach Others and Deliver Now You Can Fly Anywhere in the World and Paid Discount Prices on Your Airline Ticket Book a Flight to Date Alignment Harassment to Read or Anywhere Else You Want to Go and Pay A Lot Less All the International Travel Apartments Right Now Low-Cost Airlines 800 452 1075 800-452-1075 That's a Got an Old Car Donated Whether It's Running or Not to the United Breast Cancer Foundation and Save a Life They'll Even Come and Pick It up for Free The United Breast Cancer Foundation Has Saved Hundreds of Women's Lives through Their Free or Low-Cost Breast Screening Exams but Now They Need Your Help The United Breast Cancer Foundation Wants to Save More Lives through Early Detection by Offering Women Free or Low-Cost Breast Screening Exams In Donating Your Old Car SUV or Truck Whether It's Running or Not Helps Pay for Them Plus You Get a Charitable Tax Deduction Help the United Breast Cancer Foundation Save Lives by Donating Your Old Car SUV or Truck Call Now for Free Pickup 800-245-0823 800-245-0823 800-245-0823 All Right Now That Number Again Is 800-245-0823 Never Forgotten Apparel Is More Than Just a Premium Women's and Men's Clothing Line It's a Movement to Remind Us to Where American-Made and Serve Those Who Serve Us Our Heroes Never Forgotten Apparel Gives 20% of Their Total Sales to Nonprofits That Support Homeless Veterans and Off-Duty Firefighters and 50% to Individual Veterans and Firefighters in Need Nationwide Checkout Never Forgotten Apparel.com Use Promo Code Matt and ATT And Get 15% off Your Purchase Alright We Are Back for the Second Half Hour Episode for Gut Check Project I Married Grigor Joined Here by Your Host Kenneth Brown and Now We Have a Fantastic Guest Joining Us Today His Name Is Mark Silliman and As I As I Mentioned at the Bottom of the Last Half Hour. He Is the Only Five Year Survivor Of D Differentiated Chondrocyte, The Only Five-Year Survival on Record Eyes Got an Incredible Story of Actually Known Mark for Almost 20 Years I You're an Entrepreneur Your Husband and Father of Three Former D1 Football Plate Would You Where Did Apply Zero Other School like Other Than the University Of Texas I Didn't Do Nothing about Him You Had a Bright Did Not Know the University Nebraska Has One That Texas Tech Has Programmatic When You Get That UniFirst Nebraska That's Royal Memorial North Because of the Cornhuskers Mark Has an Incredible Story and To Briefly Mention I've Known Him for Almost 20 Years Actually My Wife and I Bought Our First Home From You Back When You're Dabbling in Our Building Homes and Even Had Cereal Lunch Manure for a Long Time Go Ahead and Looking at Bring a Jump Forward a Little Bit But Once You Take from Their Which Part the Serial Entrepreneur Report What Are the Cancer Part Well in 2010 I Guess I Would Diagnosed with Bone Cancer Okay and Originally It Was Just Gonna Be a Simple 19 Hour Procedure 15 Hours by the Surgeon Four Hours by the Plastic Surgeon There Were to Take out Half My Pelvis so Actually Had a Hemi Pill Back to Me with Allograft I Was Stuck You Real Quick Good Is Working to Get It That's When You Want Is Not What You're Going to Want Something Different Well Now It's It's It's How It Kinda Hit from You Little Bit So I Remember Bringing My Oldest Gauge over to Your House and This Would've Been an Earlier 2010 Right and You Were Laying on the Floor of Your Living Room And You Kept Saying Rear My Back Honest I Don't Know What the Hell's Going on This Only Place I Get Comfortable Take a Nap and You Are Laying on the Floor of Your Living Room with Her Legs Propped up and Physician Interposition Had Scanned Her Back I Was Trying to Find out Where the Pain Was Coming from and Got Different Diagnoses of a Stretches and Other Things like That They Weren't Working And Then It Led to Someone Look Old and a Little Bit Different Location So I Guess in January of That Year and Coach My Daughter's Basketball Team And They Were Doing a Drill in Particular like the Way the Drill so I Hopped in June This Year and under the Real And Course There 10 or 11-year-old Girls Must like Herding Cats Betting on so I Get up the Next Morning Get This Back Pain Thinking Whelming on Little Older and Will Shape Just Pulled Something Couple Weeks Later Be Fine That Didn't Work So Would It Gotten so Painful and I Was so Restless That My Wife Kicked Me Out Of Bed Not Move the Couch Could Getting Comfort There Then I Moved to the Floor and That's What You Remember Him Sleeping on the Floor No Jumpers Are You Comfort Well up into Two or Three Different Doctors Had Had the MRIs of My Lower Back and Had SI Injections I Went to a Chiropractor for Couple Three Weeks of He Said I'd Be I Can Get You Straightened out New Massage Therapist Went to Massage Therapist Every Day for a Week and She Said I Can Get That That Muscles in This like a Rope and I Can Get How Old Were You When You're Going through the 4445 And the The Massage Therapist Is Heather's New Work Sports Medicine Guy across the Street Want to Go See Him I Walked in And He Looked at Me and Says Will You Come to Get Your Gates, Funny And He Took Extreme up My Pelvis Which Nobody Every Identified My Pelvis Because the Pain Was in My Lower Back And Send Me Cross to the Hospital to Do a MRI of One of My Lower Pelvis Now And I Come Back to Him and in the and in Small Town You, Know Everybody Lives There Will the Radiology Tech Pulls Me Out Of the of the Tube in His Shoes, White until Something Wrong And His Name's Mark Also And Marquis Prompts I Can't Tell You You Just Can't Go Back across the Street See the Doctor Have All the Film Thing Else Will He Pulls up the Films and I've Got This and What Just Lit up on Screen This Tumor in the Pillows That Was the First Indication of Where It Was Always Just a Muscular Muscular Problem and Not a Bone Problem or Cancer Problem Bryant Family History of Bone Cancer or Anything like That Don't Cost My Mom to To Diet Coke Today To Brain Cancer. And She Fought That for 10 Years and Multiple Servers But No Bone Cancer They Can Is It Even Common for an Older Person to Have a Bone Cancer Both Extinct It's Very Rare The Type of Cancer You're Talking about the One That You Ended up Being Diagnosed with What's Unusual about It That Involves Both Bone and Cartilage Nice Leather Coat the Deed Differentiated Type of Cancer Router Actually Goes into Both of Them There Is a KJ's Disease When You're over the Age of 60 That Can Turn into Bone Cancer but Most of the Time It's Kids That Actually Came to Bone Cancer That's Called Osteosarcoma so This Is A Completely Different One It's Very Unique Very Very Rare Well the Congress or Coma Is As Rare and That Was the Original Diagnosis from the First Biopsy Which Is like You Said Boeing and Cartledge and F They Took the Tumor out and Did a Full Biopsy Then They Decided What We Pulled out a Bunch of Homogeneous Sales at That Point in Time and so Controversial, Is Not Exactly What It Is No Matter/in This This Loaf of Bread to Define the The Real Answer and It Should Be Differentiated Which Means That They Can't Tell You Where It Came from Whether Described It to Me Was If What What's the What's the Cell in Your Body That the T Cells That Produced the The so the Osteoblast No Over-The-Counter Blessed Usually It's It's a Blast That's the Precursor No so If I Have a Cell in the Body of Stem Cell or Something That's Going to Create a Fingernail As of the Stem Cell Yeah Okay so the Stem Cell It Is Releases Sale to Become a Fingernail or Hair Follicle And That It Was It's Differentiated So It Goes from What That Stem Cell Is to the Fingernail Will It Fall Short That's the D Differentiated Part so They Don't Know Where It Came from It Ends up And All Your Organs at Some Point Time They There Wasn't There Is No Cure That They Have Found This Point They Just Keep Having Surgeries and Taken Stuff out So What You Think You Know Your 44 Years Old Got Young Kids What's Really Going through Your Brain I Mean Let's Walk Us through Somebody That Actually Unfortunately You're Still Here to Talk about It What's Going through Your Brain That You Had a Doctor Come in Well So Entry Part of the Story I'm in Amman for a Week Four Weeks Actually in a Body Cast, but I'm Laying in His Bed and Can't Move And Now Let the Bones Everything He'll And the First Time the Doctor Comes in Orthopedic Lady She Brings a Guy with Her Big 6 Foot Seven Guy Hi Mark I Want You to Meet This Guy from the Blood Bank Okay Great a Home or Not She's Always She's Just Been No She's Trained in All These Fellows She's Just This Incredible Physician Innovative Because Five Years Prior to The Surgery That She Did for Me They Just Took the Leg off Understand. So You Run Rampant Leg She Had Created and Innovated This This Particular Procedure So the Guy Comes in from the Blood Bank And He Says I Think We've Infected with HIV In One Yeah Blood Transfusion I Think We've Given Your Chubby So I'm Kind of Freak in a Little Bit of Artie Get This This Rehab This Will Be a 24 Month Rehab and Learn How to Walk and Develop a List of Internet Your Company Thanks and Thorne Legibly And the He Was Kidding Right Was a Silly Bit Series And so We Can Freaked out so It Goes Janice and I Gonna Freak out All Just This Conversation but You That I Know It's Only Kind of Well He Comes Back in 0234 Days Later and Says Ride so We've Retested Your Blood It's Not Showing up There's No Markers in Your Blood Will Continue to Test You Will Think You're Okay I Think We Have Something False Reading Which Is Probably Not Coming He's Probably Just the Messenger They Probably Have the Biggest Guy There's like Every Head Every Time We Infect Some Truth HIV-AIDS Has Represented How Often Does This Happen in That Particular Blood Bank Is like Sorry I Got a Get to Know the Room Overhearing. We Have an Assignment You So He Leaves after I Come in the Clear but This Kind of a Roller Coaster of Stuff That You Know You Had the Surgery 24 Months Now You Have a Chevy or Whatever You Get Is No Fight This Fight She Comes in a Couple Week Later Zone Brings Another Doctor and Says Hey Mark You Need to Get Your Affairs in Order Oh Because You Got about That Best Six Months to Live Unlike What Was Going on and so You Ask about What Was Going to Your Head Are You There's Denial First You Told Me HLB's Are Not Buying Your Story Anymore Now You Tell Me That I Got Six Months to Live on the Bind That Story Anymore Either And the You Know He Leaves and Then We Go through All the Scenarios over the Statistics What's Is This Legit How Do You Know Is Is a Misdiagnosis We Believe in Miracles Mistakes And He Wouldn't Talk about Any of That Stuff Just Works on a Positive Attitude No You Have Good Family Good Support Group and We Need to Pray to Whoever You Pray to And the In Order to Go As Best We Can Only Point I Would Become Polytheistic Sure Start Praying to All of Them Well and He Leaves Right and so There Is a Guy in Town Aaron Milstein Was in Town Visited Me in the Hospital and This Guy Delivers Loses Me an Error My Dad I'm 10 Crap And My Wife's Back Home And She Had Heard This in a Cigarette I'm Not Saying a Word Aaron When You Go Home You Not Saying a Word to Your Wife I Want This out to My Wife Comes Back in This Weekend and Dr. Robbie by the Way You're Gonna Deliver the News I'm Not Going to Write so He Leaves And so You Go through the Know Is Calico 5° of Separation You Denial Whatever What You Gonna Do Now Get Your Fair Share Is My Tell You That You Get Zero Liberty Anything but Your Kids And in the Lives of Things That Night I'm Laying in Bed and Talk about Having No Begin Being the Religious Was out Born and Raised in the Church and Hence Have a Pretty Good Religious Background but I'm Pitched at That Point I'm Having a Fight with God More Argument The Stages Brother and This Isn't Happening to Me And I've Got a Wife I Get Three Kids If I'm Good – I'm Okay Back but I'm Not Okay Leaving Them Alone Without Needed to Take Care Of My New Summer Influence Rest Their Life And the Time Marcus Was Third Grade and Then EAN Where like to Fit in Sync with Their Six Grade Yeah They're Not Rulon I'm And Some past Minimum Wrestling in Bed before Because I Can't Get Any Risk As I'm in so Much Pain Amount to Different Campaign I'm Fighting in Bed And, and I Asked the Doctor Early about Miracles Mistakes And I'm I'm Telling You since I'm Sitting Here Pam There's a Just Peace Washes over Me and I Was like I Got This Boot You Have To Worry about It Again from That Point on Never Thought about It Again No New That I Just Knew I Was Gonna Survive My Job Was Just to Sit Back and Let the Doctors Do What They Do Just Survive And I Never Had Another Doubt It Was Just Another Doubt When You Go to All Kinds of Different Emotions but at That Point I Can Pinpoint That Particular Night In That Particular Time Lay in My Bed That Just This Piece Just Should Just Watch the So It Was a Journey so Obviously Held That the Doctors There Was Intervention There Was Medicine Use What Was the First Step and Then Going through That Kind of Schedule Well after He Told Me Also Dine Six Months He Says Renders and Chemo Which One Part of the Original Plan And He Says If the Cancer and Get Your First Chemo Might Take You to His Close like in the Death And so Started at about 240 Pounds And Ended up at Hundred and 87 Pounds Not Hear My Head Not Eyebrow Not on Those Here Nothing to My Butt Crack Nothing Great I Got a Great Plus Track Story I'll Tell You What I Think Is Interesting It's like I Can't See Any Hair Appear Honey Get over Here and Check It Check It You Opened It up so I Got a the Story Them so Now They Get You up to Rehab Right and You Get Move in and and Running It through One of My Jobs Was to Get up Just Walked to the Nurses Station and Back And I Got This Walk and I Get This Go We Haven't Got a Nobel Drama so Don't Fall down And His Name's Alex Left That Matters but Some Walking a Little Bit And I Get a Nurse Station Come Back Think of Had a Good Day Chemo Start to Sit in This Is Going on for Several Weeks Now Now I'm Bald In Almost All My Eyebrows Nothing Else, but Record Showed That Just Run the Story Anyway so I'm Plugging along with This Little Walker and I'm Sweat Its Work And so His Squeak Squeak Squeak Is a Bad Food You Gotta Stop The Guy Gets New Tennis Shoes or Something to Those at the Time No Hearings All Messed up And so That Was Just Really Driving Me Crazy so That You Stop It's Not May Misuse Arts Week and That Is Not Me so Just Stop He Stopped and I Don't Squeak We And Alex That You Know It's Not Me Markets Coming Out Of the Words Come from Is Not Me Maybe It's the Walker That Is Not the Walker Alex to Stop so He Lets Go And We Schooley and a Wooden Walker so at This Point I Am Not Weight-Bearing on That, My Right Leg at That Point What It Happened I Had Worked up Just Enough of Us Went up That In My Butt Crack Every Time I Walked He Would Just Go So Now I Go through All This Every Stop Looking around and so Now I Know That Every Time That I Was Going to Rehab I Was in a Walking Pillow Squeaked That's When I Knew That I Had Accomplished My Goal Don't Use Workup Enough to Wash with Sweat Now Get the Squeak Going and It Was Just the Funniest Thing That I Got a Bazillion Just Hilarious Stories Out Of All This Have a Real Serious Situation but There's a There's A Lot Of Humor in It and You Have Some Humor Chair Otherwise You Know the Doctor Really Said If You Don't Have Some A Positive Attitude about Stuff and Support Your Family and I Completely Believe That Because There's so Many Things in Our Brain We Don't Know That the Brain Does Leases or Controls in You Being You Guys Mean the Doctors Will Have All That Knowledge Young at All, Intellectual Me What I'm Trying to Wrap My Brain around Is When Your Brain Said No We Got This What Did Something I Mean There's Epigenetic's Going on When No I Got This Does That Change Something in Your Body That Allows You To Have a Better Chance of Surviving a Cancer That Kills a Mindset Has To Matter Hat on It Months It's Been a Big Think about Using Somebody in the Office in the Head They Walk around Get That Permanent Frown on Her Face No They're Just Negative All the Time and They Got Those of People Walk around or Just Bouncing off the Water Happy and You Can't Tell Why Is That Is That Genetics Is That Something in Your Life Is It Just Your Attitude What Is It Your Your Physical Appearance Turns into What You're Your Attitude Becomes and If a Negative Note That the Frown on My Face Than You Can See the Body Language That Best Personality That You Become so the Survival Piece I Think Is Is A Lot Of It Is Mental and It's a Battle and If You Decide At Some Point I'm Going with This Then You Can Whip It I Can Tell You That Story but I Could Also Mean There Will Be Another Thousand Stories out There the People Didn't Survive How Do You Know I Remember after It Has a Good While after You Finished Everything You Came up with a Slogan I Think You Started to Incorporate Will Get to It Later but It Was Your Getting What You're Getting Because You've Been Giving What You Been Giving Right And That Can Go Back to Your Attitude Really in Anything Right It's That's Funny I Stole This from Zig Ziglar I Wish I Could Say I Invented or Kept It but It Wallace I Was Gonna Let You Float within the 21 When Her Water, Carried My Wife Work Foreman and Brought Home All the Tapes and so on Wasn't to Home and I Thought Just That's Just so Appropriate Because If You Give a Bad Attitude You Can Get a Bad Attitude and Return And I've Just Goofed around in Different Settings Where People Can Get into a Situation Were A Lot Of Negative Gossip Producing All the Nonsense on Social Media and in the Talking Heads in the News and the Media Nowadays You Going to Setting and Thereby Can Be Fixated on a Particular Item Have This Negative Attitude and You Just Bring One Person in There and You Start Lacing in the Loop with a Positive Attitude and You Watch the Whole Dynamics of the Room Change yet and It's Kinda Interesting Just Somebody's in the Coming Change in Attitude and Works the Same Way yet I Just Know Where to Listen or Ask Might so That's a Big Long Name for the Cancer but It's a Type of Bone Cancer but Is It That Is There Any Other Way to Describe It He's Asking If There Is Any Other Way to Scratch I Have yet Forgot What I Thought As I Have Found Art but That Is Any Other Way to Describe That Type of Bone Cancer Mark The Lie We Had a Listener Who Is Written in and Wanted to Know Better That Long Night – GD Differentiated Congress or, Yeah Indeed Differentiated You Can Convert Sarcoma Condo Sarcomas the Common Name for It but Because It's Special The Differentiated Gallic Alec up and I'll Just Text a Link Back to Them through Spiny and yet It's a It's It's Rare It Say There's Really No Other Way to Describe It Other Than You've Got This Cancer That's Crossing over between the Cartilage in the Bone and This Is Forming The Cancer That's Coming to the End of the Pelvis like That The Edges Sounds While I Equate Just Give Us a Rundown and Then of What the Activities What You Had to Do I Know They Had to Do Chemo You Had Your Surgery So Yeah so We Had 19 Our Own Record of Good Story in This So You Know Is Doctors Going for Any Kind of Surgery They Give You the Purple Pen Right Operate on the Right Knee and so As the Patient Number Right Now No Make a Mark on My Knee Right Knee So When You Go and You Don't Screw up and Mark the Light on the Left So the Plastic Surgeon Guy Comes in and He Still Me All That Were Gonna Do And They Were Going to Take 6 Cm Out Of the Middle of My Stomach All the Way down Past My Bellybutton up Got a Whole Brand-New Bellybutton by the Way And There Were No since This Backup Okay and Their Rent Their Creighton Flaps If You Think about Taking a Big Jump Folgers Coffee Cup Put Record Your Pelvis and Pushing It Always through Your Body Everything That Went into That Coffee Cup Ended up in the Trashcan Okay so You Got a Cavity There Now What Are You Going to Do so They Were Taken the 6 Cm Out Of My Lab to Put into This Flap down Here to Keep My Insides from Falling up the Backside These Pointers Right Going Right Drawing and the So I Took That Purple Pen and I Said Dr. Reese Make Sure You Leave Me a Sixpack Abs on My Stomach I've Never Had a Sixpack Abs I Thought That Was the Only Chance I Was Ever to Get It and He Did a Pretty Dang Good Job But The Orthopedic Lady Worked for 15 Hours Straight And in the Plastics Guided a Four Hour Surgery on Same Day on the Same Setting And so 19 Hours Totals, It's Amazing Crazy That Is a Long Surgery Which Is I Mean Just Absolutely Incredible Because A Lot Of Times We Talked about Where Medicine Fails but Certainly You and I Talked about That True I Feel like Medicine Could Be Doing a Better Job For Instance Controlling Diet Right Then We Have That 15 Hours Surgery That Is Incredible This Is Where It's Definitely Succeeding Yes Well You Guys There's a Reason Why They Call It You Practice Medicine Because There Is Little Perfection in It Because You're Operating on Human Body Which Is Imperfect to Begin with Right And so And We Talked a Bit Earlier How Went from from One Dr. Trying to Chase down a Diagnosis and I Feel Fairly Fortunate That Each Doctor Said I've Tried I've Made an Attempt and I'm in Have To Send You to Somebody Else and so I Kept It Referred over and over and over It Might've Been a Frustrating Situation but in Reality the Doctors Practicing What He Knows And's Finally Stops and Says I Think There's Somebody Better To Help with Your Diagnosis or Help Push You down the Track Where You Need to Be so Appreciated That That They Weren't so Egotistical That Said I Got This in the Switch Problem Is in and Sit Me down You the Wrong Path so It Was Kind of a Neat Progression That See How the Physician Community Just They Work Together Come up with Right Diagnosis at the End of the Day So Then What Were the Were There Any Other Foreign Bodies Any Other Animal Parts That Maybe You're Sporting Right Now That Didn't Just Belong to You Well So I Have Somebody Else's Pelvis and Me Okay and I Don't Know Are You Going on Animal Parts but While I'm Here Here about a Man Not Really Sure so the Good the Joke Is That They Were Looking for Similar Pelvis Same Shape Same Size the Telegraph You Know of Cadaver Bone to Bone And the Want to Find Something And They Finally Find It in the Comments Aren't We Can Do Surgery on This Particular Day Now You Don't Have a Whole Lot of Female Orthopedist Right And the Lady That's down at MD Anderson Is a Female And so I Thought That Was a Little Unusual And I in My Day Job I Do with Physicians All over the Country And so That's a Little in Common So I Go to the MD Anderson Website Liquor up And It's Black Lady Which Makes It Even More Uncommon And When You Meet Her You Go Oh My Gosh You Are Perfect for This Job You Are the Right Person She Is a Freak and Ball Buster and She Always Had All These Other Physicians Following Her around Because She Was Kind of a Pioneer in This Particular Type of Procedure so She Had Called And Finally Found the Bone Mrs. Art Room Schedule Surgery for This Particular Day How Does She Do That like Can't Even Begin Looking for a Pelvis It's Going to Fit In a Could Ever There's a Bone Bank And Oh so You – and Then Donate Your Organs and the and This Is up California and This Is Another Funny Story That I'm at a Conference That I Go to Once You're Always with You Guys In All These Vendors Are in the Know in the Exhibit Hall And I'm Talking about My Story It to This One Guy Nieces Where Did You Get Treatment Sit down in Houston in the Engine Just When Did You Do That Is It in July 2010 I Think I Know about You Simply Mean Sidwell My Wife Works at the at the the Bone Donor Place Whatever It Is Where They Freeze All the Stuff and She Was Working Going to Bone after Bone after Bone to Try to Find a Picture When It Was This Size and Had to Go to Houston and Bob Baugh And*The Chief I Was Least Found She Was Looking for Shoes As It Will This You Know Anything about the Person That I Got It from And She Says Yeah 300 Pound Black Lady So I Thought I Got This Black Doctor Working on Me I Got This Black Bone in Me and I'm Have a Soul When I Come out Here You Do Dance Better No I Do Not Either to Help Me up Here But I Forget What Your Original Question Was about Diverted into the Wrong Snow We Were Just Talking My Animal Yeah We Just Just the Different Different Graphs That You You Had to Use Mean Here's Surgery Although It We Already Know That It's Long There's There's a Process to It Is a Process to the Chemo There Was a You Had the Best Attitude but It Was Still Work but I Can Still Remember That the Months and Months of of Watching You Show up Tell Your Kids Athletic Events and Games Try to Pull the Truck As Close As You Could to the Football Field You Said You Could Watch and Participate In Family Activity and Every Time I Stop by to See You He Did All You Could to Smile and I Knew That It Was Difficult But You Made It through… Told and Believe Miracles Mistakes Not I Think I'm a Walking Living Breathing Miracle You Don't Ever Take a Single Day for Granite Because If You Have yet Sit and Think about It for Second Get Your Affairs in Order Get Six Months to Live I Think That Would Change Your Life a Little Bit The Things That You Would Miss Definitely so It Just Enhances Your Attitude There Is a Great Day Rated below When You Got to the End Of Basically Felt Okay We Are in the Clear Now We Are Now Are Counting Months an Hour to Count Years of Mark's Survival Time What Was the Turnaround Said Okay We've We Got to the End of What Were Going to Do with You What Was That Day like and Then How Did You and Susan Then Susan's Wife Is His Wife's Name by the Way Has You and Susan Then Began to Get into the Frame Set of Okay We Are Now Moving on with Our Life Everyday's a Great Day And Then Sending Our Accounting up and Yelled Me to a Year Then Is Alluded to Earlier You Made It to Five Years an Hour Already Little over Seven Right So What Was It like No One Halyards This July Night 19th 98 so I Was off the Year What Was It like to to Get to the End of Whatever Therapy That What's so I Mentioned before I Start out 240 Pounds How Is It Jim at Hundred 87 Pounds Indicator Where We Live They Have This I Didn't Have Any Idea but Had at the Time There's a Service That Would Flock Cancer Patients to and from Houston for Free Guy Would Take Any Money If You Driven to Houston It's Not the Most Scenic Drive from Dallas-Fort Worth to Houston Is, Beating Long to Yeah So He Put You in a Plain Little Private Plane to Fly and Drop You off a Millionaire Take Unicorn Delivery to the Hospital and Then Come and Pick You up When You're Done Instead of Being a Five or 6 Hour Dr. and then up in an hour and 1/2 flight which was Fantastic So to Start the Process I Was in Pretty Good Shape Other Than a King Physically Move Mentally I'm Okay But by the End of the Process Nine Months Later Shriveled Withered Enough That I Can't Physically Get Out Of Their Plane And Susan Had to Call Somebody in Town to Come Pick Me up Physically Pick Me up Put Me in My Car Because I Couldn't Do It Myself And I Member Were Driving Home And Just Exhausted And Grind and Say I Can't Do This Anymore Unfinished and He Said Either the Cancer to Get Your Chemo Going Get You At That Point I Was Done of the Chemo so We Call Them Safe Were Done And so Think with That Tortured You Enough That's Reasonable We Have Got to Finish That Story in the Next Half Hour and Then We'll Talk a Little Bit about That Same Charity That Flies People down to Houston Because Mark Decided His Journey to Lead and Inspire Him to Do Something That Is Really Cool Thank You for Sharing That We Had Movies Get to The This Is the Only 24 Hour Take Anywhere Platforms Dedicated to Food and Fun We're Spoony Our Townhall.com, the Special Counsel's Rush Investigations Walking Fresh Speculation the President from May Pardon Some of Those Charged in the Probe Some of the President's Closest Advisers and GOP Allies Fear the Pardons Could Set off a Political Firestorm The President Preparing to Hit the Road Later Today As White House Correspondent Greg Clugston Explained for the First Time since Being Cleared of Russia Collusion by the Special Counsel the President Goes before Thousands of Supporters at a Michigan Rally This Evening Political Observers Will Be Watching to See How Mr. Trump Addresses the Issue Which Could Be a Preview of How He Uses It Politically during His Reelection Campaign the President Calling for the Resignation of Democrat Congressman Adam Shifts Chair of the House Intelligence Committee on Twitter the President Writes a Shift Spent Two Years Knowingly and Unlawfully Lying and Leaking Mr. Trump Also Talking about the Just a Small Laissez-Faire Writing That the FBI and DOJ to Review the Outrageous SEs Smell like Case the Presidents Blasting Chicago Prosecutors to Drop Charges against Millett Tweets Their Handling of a Quote Outrageous Case Was an Embarrassment He's Calling on the FBI and Justice Department to Investigate Correspondence Argument Johnny Says Mr. Trump Altercation Embarrassment to Our Nation Facebook Being Accused of Housing Discrimination Charge Leveled by the Department of Housing and Urban Development HUD Is Accusing Facebook's Ad Platform of Encouraging Enabling and Causing Housing Discrimination Facebook Recently Vowed to Overhaul Its Ad Targeting Systems to Prevent Discrimination in Housing Credit And Employment Ads a Seattle Bus Driver Being Lauded As a Hero despite Being Shot and Wounded by a Car Jacquard He Still Managed to Drive His Boss with a Dozen Passengers 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University Of California That Said There Is a Molecule Called OEA That's Found Naturally in Your Body Produces It in the Mediterranean Diet That When Taken Concentrated Amounts It Will Actually Make You Feel Fuller and Boost Your Metabolism I Lost about 10 Pounds so Far Is an Amazing Ballet School Company Said We Can Take This to Market to Make This Great Product Will Help You It's Called Reviews on Our IDU Zone.com Our IDU Zone.com Brad's Work Does Were Comrades Work for Me Countless Other People Go to Read You Zone.com and Try Today You're Gonna Love It Read You Zone.com Remember That Our IDU Zone.com Are You Tired of High Cable TV Rates Sign up for Dish Today and Get a $500 Bonus Offer While Supplies Last Loss Locking Your Price for Two Years Guaranteed Call American – Your Dish Authorized Retailer Now 800-570-6630 800-570-6630 – 800-570-6630 Authors Required Critical Negation 20 from Early Termination Fee Any Auto Restrictions Apply Call for And Welcome Back This Is Going to Be the Second Hour Episode Forever Getting Project Here with Your Host Ken Brown I Am Eric Rager Joined Today by Mr. Mark Silliman Will Continue His Story Here in Just a Brief Moment Quick Reminder If You Want to Get Your Daily Polyphenol Fix Pickups and Are Trying to Let Love My Tummy.com/Spoony He's Wearing It All Right Here in so Many I Love That He Just He Just Took off Her Sweatshirt and There It Was Perfect We Are to Get Comments Today so You Go to Get Check Project.com and You'll Take Straight the Page Go to Connect You Can Send Us Messages What Is Really Cool One of the Listeners Said That He Deftly Checked His Ego at the Door so We Call This the Jet Check Project You Really Can't Learn If You Think You Already Know Things so The Ego Is the Biggest Enemy to Learning So We Ask Everybody to Check Their Ego at the Door so We Can Talk about Anything Including Squeaky Butts Squeaky Bats Mark Did That Right off the Bat First Half-Hour Ego No Enzyme No Ego and That One at All No No No Hate Mark so We Are Rounded out the Last Half-Hour You Telling Us That You Had Been at the Point Where You're like I'm Ready to Stop Not Being Able to Get Out Of an Airplane And You Finish It up on That Story Where You Began to Emerge Out Of Therapy and and Post Cancer Treatment Will The Treatment Part Was over Now Just to to Survive So I Go Back Every For a Long Time As Every Month First Year Goes by Course Masking the Chemo Doctor Now Tell Me Statistics Many Survivors Do We Have No Who Else Is like News out There I Get Nothing They Could Be Grim Nothing You Know When I Don't Talk about That Which Have a Good Attitude We Could Move Forward Right So It's Every Month Asking the Same Question Back down Houston Finally Had Your Two Rollaround Same Questions Same Story Give Me the Same Answers Showers and a Great Attitude about Improbable Your Three Rolls around And or the Statistics And He Finally Coughs up That We Gotta Have People You Can Have a Data Backup Patient Right Now We Got a Bunch of Patient Statistically like You Tell Me Where a Man How Many of My Mother Would Get 455 Patients in Our Database And I'm Thinking I Am Not Sure That's a Statistical Analysis Enough of the Sample Size for Statistical Analysis May Be so Mean Spirit Better Than Nothing Sure but That's Only Give Me at That Point so Your Four Rolls around And I'm Beat Them up Again Whether Stats Only People like Me except Her And Get Better and Put on Weight Grumble Her Back The One Closer to Normal Aside from I Don't Have a Groin Muscle and Half of the Hamstring Muscle In Somebody Else's Pelvis and We Can so It… I've Got Some Limitations in the Things That I Physically That I Can Do And Give Many Statistics Year for He Finally Says Will You Are the Only Patient That We Have Had That Hasn't Had a Reoccurrence In the It within Four Years so to Bed Mentioned Earlier That That Then Take out the Tumor but They Don't Know Word or the Genesis of the Cancer So It It Affects All the Rest of Your Organs and He Had Said That And We Just Take out Organs As They Go on to You Can't There's More and We Can't Take out and That's It You Your Done Lights out So He Says You're the Only Case That We Have That Has Had a Reoccurrence of the for Your Mark Five Years Rolled around I Give Him the Same Questions And He's Pretty Excited That Point And He Says You Know I Think I Found the Secret Elixir to Solve This Problem He Lost His Brother to This Type of Cancer so He's, Dedicated His Life to Solving the Problem Whoa And He Says That I Think I Want to Go from 0% Success Rate To 20% So Go Seem the Following Year and How's All That Going Were the Stats Not until Manning and He Says He Is Buried I Don't Use Were Depressed but He's Not It's Jovial and As Happy As He Has Been Because He It's What He's Doing Now What He Did on Me Is Not Working on Other Patients so He Where He Thought He Had Found Some Kind of Cure to Help Some People It Had Worked so at That Point He Said We Still Have Any Documented Survivor And I'm Now at Nine Years of Be Nine Years of Some And so for Lack of And One Was Living There Anybody with This Type of Cancer They Get Funneled to MD Anderson to Take Well It's Rare Enough That I Don't Know That Everybody You Know Can Identify the Particular Type of Cancer and They End up at Anderson Sure You Know That I Feel Fortunate Enough That I Had Doctors That Said Well You Got Something's Kinda Weird Here and I Think You Need to Go on Those Centers of Excellence So My Mom Spent Middle Years Go on the MD Anderson and I Had Experience That in the Care That They Gave You There's so That's First Place I'm Going But There's Other Places in the Country That These Guys These Researchers Shared Information Back and Forth I'm Not Saying That the Dr. Robbie Had 455 Patients of His Own Don't Hate They've Collected This from from Other Clinics or Other Centers of Excellence and Greatest Database and Sharon Research So You Were Patient Number One To Make It to the Five Year Survival Mark and I Did Not See Him in January and Still Go Back Every Year But I Didn't Get Him on the Schedule So the Orthopedic Lady but This December Want to Go Back I Will Make Sure I Have Him on Schedule so I Can Give Him One More Time Right Where the Stats We Also like Me Is There Anybody Else out There That's That Surviving How Are You Doing to Your Cretin The New Elixir Saul Somebody Else's Problem It's Crazy but That's Just like When You Are down to Your Last Dollar You Don't Know How You're Going to Get Out Of the Casino And You Going to Put It on the Table and Hopefully Hit Hard Eight or Something like That so That She Could Buy the The Flight Home That Is Exactly What I Was Thinking throughout the Whole Story Yes They Can Blackjack the Whole Time That's All I Mean That's That's All and Its Outlets Actually It's Craps but so March I Whenever You Talked about the Flights down to Houston This Whole Journey Inspired You to Take up a Completely New Hobby You Still Have Your Other Job Where You Still Deal with the Orthopedists and That's Obviously Something That You've Done Well in Your Own Entrepreneurial Spirit Etc. but You Took up a Completely Different Line of Hobbies And Wanted to Tell Us Little Bit about That Well so the Guy That Runs This Nonprofit Indicator Kept Busting My Chops Marketing Learn How to Fly Needle Half-Life And Off-Line Looks like A Lot Of Fun Theoretically at Coming That Looks, Your Fighter Pilot Doing All That Stuff but When You Actually Watch What They Go through and What They Do and What They Have To Know and Learn I'm the Guy That Wants to Put the Key in the Car and Just Go Right I Don't Know All the Details and All That Other Stuff Is Just One Draft Just Want to Go and Watch Him and All the Stuff That He Does Fine so There's No Way So I Mentioned Earlier That He Wouldn't Take Any of My Money So the Only Way That I Could Give to Him Because What He Gave to Me Didn't You Get Good or Given Which Given I Decided to Volunteer They Do a Charity Bicycle Race Every Year in August a Week or so before Hotter Than Hell And We Have People to Come from All We Had Somebody from Czechoslovakia and Australia with People from All the World That Show up This By Chance And Then End up in Modern Hill in Wichita Falls Which Is Kind of a Cool Ride so These People Arrived in Sandman This Is A Lot Harder And Harder Than Help Is How to Enhance Flat You Have Some Hills to But It's Pretty Good You're Right in the Trees and on the Country and It's a Little Bit Different Anyway so I Volunteer My Time for This Bicycle Rally And of Course He's Given Me the Mark Geller How Fine You Gotta Do All the Stuff in the Next Bobbio He's Cuban But As Names Fob You And We Say Five You Think of Long-Haired Guileless on the Harlequin Romance Books and Stuff up to Another Five Euro Story in a Minute but Anyway so Bobby I'm Not No Money to Do It One of the Ladies That Runs This Kind of Head Pet Dog in Charge of the The Bicycle Really She's a Doctor in Town Jesus: Clients Not like That That's Just Bob You What You Comply with Me and I'll Show You What It's Really like Pilots Live in Decatur It's Not That Big of a City Is Only Five 6000 People Live in Decatur but 74,000 Pilots through the You Think Everybody's Flying Planes Yeah She Gets Me in and Select Jeep Punching the GPS and the Plane Just Takes You There Right Skunk in Your Car except You Gotta Drive Give a Gas and Brake When a Plane You Just We Put in the GPS and It Just Goes I'm Oversimplifying Things but I Said Wow If It's That Easy I Can Do This So That Was Going to Be My Turned 50 That Year And I Decided Instead of Going out Having a Midlife Crisis and by the Red Corvette Of the Minor Point Open on Offended by That We Had a Midlife Crisis When Barret Corbett in Right Now So Anyway I'm Not Buying or Planning and Start Learn to Fly And One Thing Leads to Another and It Became Quite Addicting And It 50 Saying You're Not Too Old to Learn Something but It Was Quite a New Challenge And It Was I Was Not in School Anymore so the Learning Aspect of It Was Going Back to School You Have To Rethink about the Learning Process So Now I'm Flying And Bought a Second Airplane the Train in Bought 1/3 Airplanes Love Moved up in Different Stages and Now I'm Fine Catch Cancer Patients Back and Forth to Houston Like Events Tomatoes the Pallets about How They Donate Their Airplane They Volunteer Their Time And That the Nonprofit Just Pays for the Fuel Don't Help Get You to and from So I'm Trying to Get Back What They Gave Me Some Survival so It's Really Rewarding on My Part to Take Some Patients That Going through What I Can Went through Back down Houston Take Care They Make in Their Life a Little Bit Easier Now When You Take These Patients Do You Tell Them Your Journey Most Often You While so It Try to Instill Some Kind of Hope And They Know You on the Flight That While This Guys Been There before and If They Don't Have Any Hope and There's A Lot Of We've Had Patients That Would Go And We Might Take 456 Times And They Don't Come Back And You Know What Happened And That's Kind of a Heartbreaking Thing but We Have There's Patients That We Go on a Continual Basis There Just a Rotating Basis like I Was I Went for Nine Months And We Get Patients Now They're Going for Nine Months or so and It's Encouraging to Them the Thing Here Yeah That Is Not the End The Journey Itself to Heal Is Already Taxing Enough It's Just It's Fantastic That Bobbio Put Together and I Don't Know If He Mentioned Already but It's Raquel Wings for Life Raquel Wings for Life.com Dragon You Can Learn Little Bit More about the Specific Charity That Basically in Our Area It's Not They Don't Discriminate Anybody Who Needs a Lift Down to MD Anderson Inc. and Certainly Can't Tolerate the Repeated Trips in the Car All It on to Houston This Particular Charity It's It's a Niche However It Serves so Many People Every Single Day Every Single Week That the Brothers Enter Flights like This in Other Parts of the Country Sure Serve Service Wise County and, the Surrounding Areas Don't Just Go to Indiana and Then Go to Tulsa Any Other Number of of Local Places in the Plains Are Large Enough That Your Finder Tamper Clear What You're Whatever What's up for This That You Can Take a Patient In Some of the Smaller Planes You Probably Want to Do More and 2 1/2 or Three Hours And in the Bigger Plane of Schlegel Faster and the Bigger Plane so You Go Another 2 1/2 or Three Hours If You Had to but Most Folks Are in the in in Our Area or End up in Tulsa Or MD Anderson in Houston so I've Saved 90 95% of Our Flattering Diffusion Okay So with the Ad with the Bike Rally I Remember That Five Years Ago Whenever You Immediately Want to Start Giving Back with Bobbio You Signed Me Family Your Family Was Now Working the Race He Had That yet Susan Had All Three Kids Smile and EA Markets All Helping out with If They Were Riding They Were Doing Traffic Same Thing for My Kids and Then My Parents They Started Helping My Dad Had a Had a Friend Who Was Also Flying There You Immediately Began to Make It a Community Event This Is Still before He Became a Pilot so You Have Decided That You Are Going to Give Back Your Attitude Really Had Changed throughout Go Ahead and Follow up with What the Bike Races Meant for Fob Yell and Then Tell Us Little about Bobbio Story Will It's It's a Good Thing It's a Bad Thing They Were Served and Maybe 30 Patients a Year So We Might Have Two Maybe Three Flights a Month When Huge But You You Start Getting Some Notoriety Start with the Bicycle Rally Word Starts to Get out Last Year We Did 70 Some Odd Patients Down to Them Back from Houston or Wherever And This Year so Far Were Meet There You Could See If You Want Websites All Calendar of Events and All the Patients That Are so Were to Explode Way past What We Did Last Year That's Fantastic News the Bad News Is That The Cost Money to Do That Chair and So There's Always This Fundraising You Know People in the Community Every Five Bucks Helps No and so Were Still Working on Our Outreach to to Raise Some Funds for Them Bobbio Lost His Mother Years Ago to The Breast Cancer And He Wanted to Have Some Vehicle To to Give Back to People at Cancer Well He Flies Obviously And so He Enjoys Doing That In His Way to Give Back Was to Transport People Back and Forth so He Started This Probably in 2006 Maybe And Issues Grown and Evolved over the Last 13 Years or so And As It Gets Bigger Just Some More Money so I Got Involved Try to Help at Some Point to to Raise Some Funds to Pay for the Fuel to Get People to and from Where They Need to Go Pretty Selfless Act on His Part Sure Yeah so It's the Funny Story Have on File Via Was Not on Fob You The Cuban Five You But Wife and I Are on Her Honeymoon in Mount Amaral, Polly Beach And the Sun Sitting in the Back and I Got My Camera Think This Is Just Fantastic Setting That Helps You out There and Get a Picture of You in the Sunset Back And so I've Got and I Think It's on the Camcorder Actually so I'm Videoing Her and She's Walking out Posing and Doing Her Thing in the Water and All Of A Sudden Behind Her in about 4 Feet of Water This Guy Comes up with In His Hair Just Flopped Flops Back Blonde Hair Muscular Looking Dude Looks like Can You Know. Photo Bond Your Real Life Mario Comes Out Of the Water like a Freaking Book You Know Any Tears All Flowing and My Wife to Turn around She's Going That Word Is Married I Mean This Might Be in the Second or Third Day on Our Honeymoon We Just Got Married and She's Just Drooled Overpopulation over the Lord God I'm Actually Friends with Him and What He Does He Waits in the Water Just Does That All Day Long Just All Day Just Flipping His Hair but It Is Well His Name Is Aquaman so There's Another Story behind That Your Money to Get into Right I Document Story Was That Something up and Real Pennsylvania Board Were Real Look at Me like That When Were You Going with This A Reminder List of Known Mark for a Long Time and I Don't Know Sometimes Where He's Going but He Did That before the Cancer so You Can't Say As a Side Effect Let Me Ask You? Do You Have Any Limitations After Going through All of This Carla Brightened up by Flying the Plane Physically Have You Noticed a Significant Difference for Sure I Can't Walk I Mean I Can Walk Can't Jog or Can't Run like Things You Can't Do Not Supposed to Snow Ski We We Change That We Change That Really so Remember What Year It Was Eric His Family We Took Some of the Folks We Went Mostly in Was Either Four or Five Years Ago and the They Have Finkel Sit in Ski One Year Had Seen a Show on TV about Wounded Warriors And They Were Taking People up the Mountains and Diction Whiskey and No Amputees and Whatnot and I Was like What They Can Do It Than I Can Do That Mean I'm Not an Amputee but I Could Sit on the Stairs Learn How to Ski Right so We Had a Big Group of Us and We Got Snow Skiing and I Went This Chair And Learn How to Ski so Eric Was My Helper Help Me Get on and off Lift and Sit in the Chair and Get Videos in Its It's Funny Well It Is Scary So I Gave Mark Mark Is Marginal Fearless and He Doesn't Really Usually Say It but Whenever I Remember You Getting a Lesson On How to Pump up the Chair so That We Can Get Theirs for the Lift to Pick Us up and Then They Turn to You and They Say or to Me They Saved Look If You're His Helper Yours to Make Sure His Seat As All the Way Back and If You Need to the Safety Strap to Hold Them onto the Chair and the Be Sure and Undo That Whenever He's out and Then This Is Just As the Lift Is Going around Also Have To Do It Quickly Having All All the Cool Stuff That She Really Is and Does so We We Do All That and It Didn't Take Long for Mark to Get the Technique down of the Leaning and the Pivot Skis or Whatever You Call It Wavy Have Your Arm out but the One Thing This One Work Just As a Ski in the Middle and yet the Two Polls with the Skis after Certain Chair Skis underneath the Chair Get to Liberty, like a I Crack like Form Crutch Basically Balance Yourself Is in the Schedule Skis on the End of but What He Is Is a Low Center of Gravity Snow Missile Because He's If I Remember Right We Were up There with the Stories Correct and Weary Park City in Utah and Essentially Mark Says Okay Will Have Done Two Runs I'm Ready and like Holy Ship This Is Going to Be Wild and We Go up The Left and Then You Decided to Follow Us As We End up Going down a Pretty Rigorous Bumpy Blue and I like Nana Had I Hope This Is What Mark Wants to Do and He Said That We Are Doing It I'm Doing and I'm like Well I'm Not until the Man Know and so Then You Made a Hard Right and They Made a Hard Left and Then I Saw Basically in a Very Cartoon Fashion Both Your Arms Go Back and You Are off of the Mountain in the Air and on like That Is That This Is Wild in a Cloud of Snow Dust and He Said I'm Fine I'm Fine but He Gone It's It's an Adrenaline Rush at School so the Use of Limitations Was Your Original Question and Yeah I Can't Do Some of Athletic Things That I like to Do before Is Outplayed Pickup Basketball and Three on Three Legs and Stuff like That Can't Do Any of That Stuff Anymore I Was Never Big Runner So I Did I Wouldn't Didn't Have My Feelings Hurt but the Other Things Bother And so Snow Skims One Thing We'd Always Done As a Family And the Fact That I Could Do That so We Just Went Begin This past Years Probably Not for Five Times Now and Though Harry Really That's Awesome and I'm Now the Point I'm an Official Licensed Adaptive Skier With New Card and Everything That I License and Everything That I Can Go to Forever and Present My Card and Get the Chair and Go at All Had to Have the Lessons Anymore like I Did before That Year Was the Year the Bottle They Go Pros We All Had No Prose Where Wearing Those in the in Film and the Family You Going down the Mountain of His Life and You Should Look Back at Those Old Go Pro Videos Because I Bet You at Some Point File Bills Get a Pop Notice That Just Emerges Because We Talked about That He Prefers to Hide in the Water in Hawaii but Sometimes Oakville If Eastgate Hill Does Hyden Carefully Straight Out Of a Mobile a Marsh List with Your Favorite Flight Stores Did You Have the Patient Take It down to Houston If You Have One Sticks out Flight Story With the Patient Yeah Or and Immediate Details a Great Flight Story with without the Page Will I Can Almost Imagine With All These Pilots Indicator It's Just Overweight in Here for Fazio to Take off It'll Be Another Protest along Hundred 74,500 7400 People Small Airport, I Can I Will Have More Story on Me That I Would Tell so Much As a Will Tell One of My Son And So You Know As a Parent You Want to Get Your Kids Involved As Much They Can Hope They Find That They May Find a Passion about Something And Whether It's Tennis or Whatever It May Be It May Be Mountain Biking or Whatever so Is Apparent I'm Trying to Expose My Son Does Much As I Possibly Can and Should Will Learn to Fly so Why Don't You Want Sorry That Ultra So He Goes and Tries and He Kinda Gets I Don't Think He's As Addicted As I Am but I Think He Enjoys What He Is Doing so Part of Your Process Is That You Get up You Flout the Instructor for so Many Hours and Then You Do a Solo And You Don't Go Very Far but You Go on Land Somewhere That You've Done Several Times and Come Back and Land He Gets His Private Pilot License And Yes You 17 Years Old This Point Time And I Have Another Plane That I've Taken for Some Maintenance So He Is Now Taking One of My Instructors up to Pick up This Other Pickup My Plane And Drops Them off Issues from Decatur to Gainful Source Not It's a Blueberry Flight He Drops Drew off Marcus Turned around Take off and Come Home And He Gets to Decatur His Gauges Are Starting to Act a Little Fun Anything Something Is Weird Something's Going on Then Hear Anybody on the Radio And the All Of A Sudden He's Got Power Starts to Go out In His in His Dissent to the Land and so You Ghost Was Checked Was Geared Gears Not Coming down Ellis Is a 17-year-old Maybe Have 40 Hours Total That's It Is He Communicating with Somebody at This Point Describing What's Going on He Was Until the Power Goes out in His Radios Are Gone Silent so He Can Even Call Anybody and Tell Him My Gears Not down I Don't Know What I'm a Do Most People Can Get the Dead Panic at This Point And That Panic Right Now Listening to Us so the Fuel Gauge Is over Here Have Sunk to Zero So Now Is One I Don't Have Gear The Fuel Gauges Are Zero I Don't Know If I Can Make It to the Airport and Even If I Do That on the How Malan Because of the Heavy Gear Right So He's He's Too Close to the Runway to Land Because of Your Income down so Now He's Gotta Turn out And and Come Back and Set Himself up Again He Had Enough Wherewithal so They Have a Manual Dear Extension And It's a Pump and so He's down There Pumping Heart against the Data Pumped until I Couldn't Pump Anymore and up Sweat Ministries That Don't Know What to Do and I'm Just Hoping to Gear down and See out the Window I Got One Gear on the Side Number Good Land but Can't Tell Anybody You Know One of the 74,000 Pallets and Relive Indicators Is a Bunch of Airplanes Flying around so You Don't Want to Run into Somebody Else Is out There Right That So He He Comes around and Lands And Taxis up to the Fuel Station and I Get This Phone Call I'm Sit in My Office That I Think You Need to Come up to the Airport One Heidegger Problem Here Your Malfunction and in the I'm Still Kinda Nervous and Shaken Set up Either Second or You Okay Yeah Five Is Plain Okay Yeah .5 Okay I'll Be There Second Swap Jump in the Truck and Show up at the Airport and He Standing outside and Have Never Seen Him Really Nervous or Stressed out about Something and He Comes He Comes Running Out Of the Where the Airplane Is and Just Bear Hugs Me As I Get out the Door My Truck and He Still Just Come Shaking Is That You Just Don't Know Outfit like So It's, One of the Legendary Moments Now the Airport That the €17 Kid Has Encountered a Catastrophic Event And Handled the Challenge like a Champ That Is Impressive If the Meat Markets Is One of the Most Mature Stable Eddie Steady Eddie Stable Kids for His Age That I've Ever Encountered in My Entire Life These Markets Is a Is a Very Unique and Incredibly Intelligent Module Well We Got to Just A Few Seconds of the Bottom of the Hour We Will React the Last Half Hour Here in Just a Moment If You Are Trying to Quit Drinking or Doing Too Many Drugs Listen to Me You Don't Know Me and Will Never Meet I Had a Problem like You Want I Drank and Used a Party a Little Too Much till He Got Out Of Control and Almost Ruined My Life I Realize I Needed Help to Fix My Problem before It Totally Destroyed Me If You Tried to Fix Your Drinking and Drug Problem and You Know You Can't Do It Alone You Need to Call the National Treatment Advisors They'll Immerse You into a 30 Day Program to Replace Your Old Habits with New Habits and Totally Change Your Life and If You Have PPL Private Health Insurance the Entire Program May Be Covered Fix Your Problem Right Now before It Gets Any Worse Get Clean Call Now and Learn More 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 It Looks like You're Losing I Am I Losing Weight I Am Losing My Lost about 10 Pounds How Are You Doing It Funny Name but I Done It with Review Zone RAD Use Zone.com and the Stuff Works It's You You Get It All That the Molecule This That Found in That I Can Tell You Is It It's It Makes You Feel Full and It Keeps Your Mind Off of Wanting to Overeat and Also Boost Your Metabolism If You're Done and More Guys Try It Today It's Gonna Work for You like His Work for Brad and Countless Other People Read You Zone.com Are IDUs Zone.com Fast Track Student Loans Can Get Your Student Loans Out Of the Vault Stop Any Wage Garnishments Stop Collection Calls and Stop Seizure of Your Tax Refund Give Yourself a Break to Stop the Stress and Get Your Student Loan Payments down to As Little As $25 a Month Based on What You Can Afford to Pay 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 All Variety We Are Back Now for the Last Half-Hour so Forget a Project and We Close out the Last Half-Hour with Mark Did You Tell Us It Was Your Fault That Your Son So Intelligent Well Yeah That's so Sorry That You've You've Owned That Responsibility but No Seriously I Think Were Talked about How He's As Mature As He Is for a 17 Year Old Meals Asking You How in the World Is a 17-year-old Have the Composure to Pull That off I Was Amazing So During That Cancer If I'm Not Going to Make It I Had Pulled Him Aside One Day He's 10 or 11 Years Old Said Marcus If I'm Not Here Whose Will Be the Man of the House Annual Answer That the Discount Looked at Me Is like a 10-year-old Witness Said That Will Be You Any Concert and Decided That at That Point He Was on Take on the Role So during All My Treatment He Was the Man of the House As Best He Could Take an Abstract and Have To Ask You Twice Feed the Dogs That Have To Ask Him Twice and He Took the Roles That to Help Susan As Best He Could As What He Thought Dad Was Doing at Home He's Gone Be the Man of the House and Take Care Of the Girls Think of the Women Should You Take Care the Women All His Sisters Are Older by the Death so He Did And I Think That's Good and That's Bad and I Had Read a Book at One Point One Book in My Life That I Read That Was a Joker You Are Bad Delivering Punchline Saying No but It Said It Talked about Raising Kids and Said Whatever You Do Don't Force Your Children to Grow up Too Fast And What Did I Do When Told My Son You Can Be the House at 10 You Gotta Grow up Too Fast off, Carry That around with Me for A While And He's Grown up and He's Been The More Mature Kid in His Grade That Sometimes Some of the Other Goofy Things That Those Kids Do Didn't He Didn't Relate to And That Wouldn't His and His Wheelhouse Am Still Waiting on Him to Do Something Really Stupid so I Grounding and Beating Him or Something You Know Them and He's Just He's Been a Really Good Good Kid And Way More Mature Than It Should Be yet When You Read the Book You Felt like You May Had Done Some Damage but Well Yeah As I Look Back and You Know It Tell You Some of the Problems That If Your Kid Grows up Too Fast You Put Too Much Responsibility on Them Too Soon and Don't Let Them Be a Kid Don't Let Them Make Some Stupid Mistakes Juvenile Mistakes That I May Actually Have Probably Made Enough for the Both of Us so He Didn't Need to Make Any But Stuff like That and That You Should Growing Pains That You Gotta Learn through Some Trial and Error and He He Didn't Do Any of Those Things Okay I'm Not Saying He Straightlaced but He Was He Was Mature and Made Mature Decisions Were Everybody Else in His Grade Was Not And Said, Wanting to Go Do Something Silly and Stupid and Immature but And on That yet Well As a As a Nonparent and a Huge Fan of Marcus That Is a Top-Notch Kiddo and I Will Can Imagine Him Being Any Other Than Just an Incredible Person and a Young Man As He Gets Older He's Good Kid Gadget Absolutely All This Is Led to You Becoming a Pilot And Now I Know That You've Been Getting Some Training Beyond Learning How to Be a Pilot Even Getting Some Training in a Completely Different Arena What Is That Well For Years People Have Told Me You Got to Write a Book Got Write a Book on How to Write a Book We've Only Read One House When Writing Exactly but I Can Tell a Story without a Punchline Weight Deed That Was Another Joke Yeah Else We Left Thank You for Anyway so I Can Had This Vision That I Would Sit down and Just Regurgitate Tell Stories About This Treatment Would've Been through and Somebody Else Would Write the Book And Put It All Together and Whatever Chapter Where Needed to Go And My Wife Being the Best Promoter That I Know Has Brought Cross People Say Oh They Can Help Write the Book And at the Same Time Oh You Come to My Company the Story That's a Pretty Inspiring Story Can and Want to Get People Some Hope in's Motivation and What They Do and Have a Right Attitude about Work Life in General In Relationships Etc. And so One Thing Led to Another A Part of Speaking Coach I Guess I Have Jumped in with Both Feet As It Relates to Public Speaking and Motivational Speaking And All Revolves around The Story Of the Faith Family Friends Attitude Confidence in Your Expectations and, How All That Stuff Wraps up into You Get What You Get in Because You Given What You Given so You Give Something Back and You Can Get Something Back in Return Give Something Negative You Can Get a Negative Positive Positive so It's It's It's Cannot Come Full Circle so Now One of the Main Reasons That I'm Doing the Public Speaking Is Awfully for Motivational People for Other Motivation for Other People and Help But The Any Steamy Fees That I Get from the Speaking I'm Donating Back to Raquel's Wings To Help Pay for Dobson Transportation Back and Forth Cancel Sure It's Amazing That Sees Another Avenue to Give Death He Probably Enjoy Doing so Well It's It's It's Is Rewarding When You Think You're Helping Somebody Else but Willingly Giving It so Self-Satisfied So the More You Do It the More Satisfying to Become Steve It's Kind of a Weird Thing I Think I'm Helping Somebody in Them Make in Their Life Better but It's Really Benefit Me I Absolutely Love It Because Number in the First Half-Hour We're Talking about the Kids Get up to Speed with Everything by Daughter You Were in on the Show but My Daughter Is in Her Theatrics Class She's in Sixth Grade They Did Improv Training the Improv Training Is Everything That You're Talking about Right Now You Say Yes and But You Don't Argue Go Yes and You Trust That's Followed by Listening Followed by Making a Statement You Said Yes And I'm Going to Do This to Trust That I'm to Be Good at It and My Statement Is Going to Be My Story That Is so Cool Is Life No You Think You Get People Have It All Figured out or You Look at Somebody Go Well That They Their Life's Great Shape They Do Something Great with Great Looking Family Would've Whatever But on the inside People Have All These Other Things in the Baggage It's in Your Head And I Got a Clean That Mess up When They Look at You and Say You're in Great Shape Because the Six Pack Abs Yeah You Ever Feel Guilty That It's Nice I Hate Mark I've Seen and in and beyond Raquel's Wings I Seen You and Your Family Given Multiple Different Avenues so That's That's Nothing New to You Whatsoever but He Also Had a Little Entrepreneurial Spirit As You Are Hosting Several People out at Your Lake House Is Probably a Little over a Year and 1/2 Ago and You Wanted to Inspire Your Friends That Included Me and We Were All Going to Put Our Heads Together and We Were Going to Develop Something House That Has We Were We Were to Do a Whole New Business Venture Half And I Thought It Was Just Perfect Tennis Is up Your Alley by the Lot Right up Your Alley Good Squeaky but Thing I Hope You Get Really Close so I've Got It I've Got a Doctor I've Got Eric Whose Been Involved in More Than One Business It's Kind of a Techie Person Internet While Facebook Go to All That Other Stuff That Goes on Highest Endorsement I Had Another Guy That Was Instrumental in Starting Businesses and Running No Building Catalogs and Things like That Internet Wise And Then Me And I'm Just out There Having Fun and Throwing out Ideas before You Get Further He Also Has Two Big Green Egg Niche Next to Each Other and He Wanted to Create a Cover for Them It Look like a Bra As a Whole Other Story So Were Sitting on the Top the Dock One Night Having a Couple Cocktails and Telling Stories and What If We Could Do This Would If We Could Do That You Know Y'all Had Made a Comment Earlier That If We Could Talk about Boops Masturbation And Can I Say That on There but It Already Hello and and and I Got an and Poop Right Then You Get a Great Audience out There to Choose from so We Decided That We Were Going to Have a, Facebook Page or Instagram Page or a Whole New App That We're Going to Create And It's Called Show Me Your Poop.com We Think Your Partner Now and so We Thought about You Because You Know It Leads into on from Two and All That Goes on Fat and Your Thing I'm Now I'm Thinking about Advertisers I've Got All Paper People of Got Squatty Party People of Got All the Stuff in There That Help Him Show Me Your Poop and You Can Be Clinically Diagnosed by Taking a Picture and Send That out Post and Then out There Sold I Have Stayed with Us All Came from So My Son My Mature Son Goes into The Stall in the High School And They're Fairly Regular at That Hospital of Its Athletics or Whatnot But There's a Particular Young Man That Sit Next to Him in the Stall And Start Screaming at Him He Gets up and Takes a Picture and Send It Via Text to My Son Who's in the Stall Next to Him So There Taking Pictures of Poop and That, One Thing Led to Another and I Thought Well That's Kind of Funny And If They're Doing It on Instagram but You Get in Trouble at School. Come Share the Stuff Back and Forth about What We Have Our Own Instagram or Facebook like Page That You Could Garner Advertisers and You Could Do Some Clinical Diagnosis Is with the The Third Be Right up Your Alley Show Me Your Poop.com so We Still Own the Domain to Have It on There's Instagram Page I Don't Have Any Followers yet Because the Person Eric Was Close to Build the App Never Got the App Built But Wheatley's Got the When Directly Set up the Company but We Do Have That You Did Say We Were Talking about It Late at Night I Did Wake up the Next Day and That's Funny That You Guys Are Doing That but You'll Notice That I'm Not like Dr. Anything Because When I See Patients to like Oh Yeah Let Me Show You and They Will Have's Just Multiple Pictures and You Show Me the Light of the First One Was Good Stop Mike Is a Thought Built with That Is Positive in the Background We Had People Show up to Be Happy to Show to the Indo Clinic Believe It or Not with No Photo But the Whole Sample in the Bag I'll Go See If It's Something That We Would Want to Just to Look through Assay Because Poop Right Now Is Big Business Let's Look at Businesses like David Jane Katsav I Am Violent That There Mean There's A Lot Of Money Being Thrown at This This Is like a Entrepreneurial Billionaire Who Decided the Poop Is the Next Great Frontier Well the Perfect Wife Is a Three Square White And I Can Get Videos That I Can Show You the Perfect Wipe I'll Settle for the Store so on This App You Will Have like Wiping Techie Anything about Were Just Yeah You Think about a Webpage and You Have All the Headers up the Top and You Can Have The Greatest Poop the Biggest Log the White Greatest Wiping Techniques the Bonuses I've Been Squatting Things I've Done Blogs on the Perfect Pooping Angle on for Me before Because I Get Him Excited about This I like This Visit Would Probably Go Somewhere Finally I Encourage Everyone to Go to YouTube and Type in Rectal Bleeding and That's What I'm Known for Buckley Is Exactly Right I Figure That Here At Least What You Could Pitch the Idea It's Being Recorded and Back out Anymore It's on Tape Now So Jim and Peter Welcome You Have To Be a Part of This Particular Conversation so Mark Let Me Know before He Showed up Here That He Had Five Top Five All Movies Are All-Time Movies That He Thought Were His Favorites and Everybody See If I Think These Are Pretty You're Pretty Normal for a Man of Your Age to Pick out Is That Some Your Favorite Movies but You Listed Probably No Particular Order Braveheart The Nutty Prof. Tombstone American Pie And The Quintessential Animal House Okay Hello All Really Good Movies All Really Good Movies with All Three Seen Them but I've Got a Really Cool Game Here for the Two of Y'all If You Know the Answer You Just Simply Say Your Name on the Call and Use Can Be Pretty Quick to Have Got to 1010 Movie Lines Here 52 from Each of the Five Movies Listed I'll Read Them out and I Guess I Could Try to Pretend to Say It the Way They Said No You Have To Say It the Way That It Was Said in the Movie Okay so This Is Going to Be Really Interesting but Regardless I'm Doing My Best You Have To Say Your Name so Is Simply to Say Mark and Then I Call You Spit out the Answer Let's See If You Can Be Daddy Can Be Can Ken Same Thing You're Ready Okay First Line Remember the Movies Are Braveheart Nettie Prof. Tombstone American Pine Animal House so First Line It's Not Space Shuttle Some Space Allots Its Sex Ken Oh This Other Game Is Played When I Have To like All the Other Times He Just Cheated American Pie That's Exactly American Pie You Just Gave the Point I Don't Answer I Have Not yet Begin to Defile Myself Oh 10 Tombstone Tombstone Nice Nicely Done Who Said That Val Kilmer Exactly He Was Playing Doc Holland Was Here in Your Text Which Which I Want to Go Ahead and Do the Best Light of That Movie That I'll Be at Sledding Putting on Their Salaries Had M's an Easy One Every Man Dies Not Every Man Lives Well Mark: Brave Heartbreak behind Both on the Accident David X and Y It Is so Good Fat Drunk and Stupid Is No Way to Go through Life Span Animal House Okay One Side or the Other I Want Only Hear You Say It One More Time I Want a Little More Character Are You This I Need Some Feeling and Let's Imagine You're Staring at John Belushi Get It in Your Character Drunk and Stupid Is No Way to Go through Life Son Much Better
Oh No Seven Years of College down the Drain And One House near Hannibal House Didn't Use Your Name so We Get the Point Anyway Way to Go about That Point They Go Let's See Here It's All for Nothing If You Don't Have Freedom Mark Braveheart and Abigail Mark I See Her Accident Killed You We Know Hey I'm the One with the Gluteus Maximus Mark You Can't Fail to Favorably Study Professor First Wrong Answer so I Get Not Lose Two Points Only Had One All These Little Hercules Show That Most As He Is Doing Okay That's Nutty Prof. Lately Wanted to Take It One Step Further It's a Great Movie Oh It's Funny Will Just Tell Your Mother We Ate It All Both Where to Buy Nice Okay Will Basically Just I'm in a Live up to My Expectations Anything Keep Score Love Fun So You Both Winners They Stop Participating so on Our Gut Check Project Intake Form Yeah Don't You Ask That Question The Gets a Project Intake Form for the Guess I Do Ask What Their Top Five Favorite Movies Are That's Correct Did He Say We Had Kind of an Unusual One so We Try to Be a Guest Recently We Did Have an Unusual Board or You Did You Thought the Movie Choices Were Little Odd Yeah Another Movie Choices Were the Log It Was More Macabre Chainsaw Massacre Devils Rejects I Think Were Two of Them They Were in There so That Was Itching I Can't Wait to That Person Comes on the Shelf DSO Eric with Them When When People Apply to Be Guests and They to Be New York Times Best-Selling Authors They Could Have All This Other Stuff All These Accolades Islets from Decatur Pilots from Dictators below Joe Rogan Applied to Be a Guest and He Rejected Him Because of His Movie Choices We Had Was a Little It's Easy Just to You Have To Work on a Submission before You Can Exit the Bar Pretty High to Be Just Here so Hey Another Quick Question That You Had during the Break You Brought up Yes the Question of Can and That Was CBD You Said That You Have a Little Bit of the Pain Situation so Could You Gladden Lundquist McGettigan Well I Get Everywhere I Go over Flip-Flops Put on Shoes Just Absolutely Kills My Feet A Very Painful Sleep in Bed with My Feet Up Okay so I Get Hank's Legal System and Feet off the Bed This Is All after Chemo so Because of the Chemo Neuropathy That Bitten I Headed to My Fingertips My Fingertips Have Come Back Pretty Good But the Front Half My Feet And Really Don't Have Any Feeling in There Which Is Interesting but yet I Have Neuropathy Say the Word Neuropathy Pain Rob Pathetic Pain Smith Ryberg I Learned That One Book Anyway I Had Gone in the Pantry One Day To Get Some a Can of Something and I Watched a Can of Corn, in Slow Motion Fall off the Pantry Down It Was Straight My Foot in a Marginals Happen, in Slow Motion Pamela My Big Toe I Know That Has Been Hurt but I Can Feel It In Owning the Toe Turned Black the Falls off but I Did Not Never Felt the Canned Corn Hit My Foot So It's Kind of a Weird Type of Pain so Your Term of the CBD Earlier And the Second and I Was Wondering Aside from Taken No Medication with All the Side Effects That Come with It Is There Something That You Guys Do No of the CBD Work That Could Help with This in Your Drop Neuropathy The Neuropathic Pain There You Go That's Sort of Look for So Can My Feet yet Kenny's up the First One Asked That Question When All That You Very Similar Talk about the Question Was Brought up with the Anxiety No Neuropathy or Neuropathic Pain Is Just over Firing of a Nerve And so the Drugs Are out There like Lyra Code That You See Tons of Commercials on so People That Have Chemotherapy 10 Experiences People with Diabetes Can End up Experiencing This People with Post Trauma Can Have This Kind of Thing Also so It's a Very Common Thing Common Enough That You'll See These Pharmaceutical Companies Take Ads All over the Place Genetic, When It's Course Are Gabapentin Also Known As Neurontin Is a Another Drug to You so so CVD Probably in Its Role to Come to Help This Particular Area How Would That Well in This Way the Way That CBD Works Is Once Again It Just Gets Everything to Go Back to Normal Get You Back to Balance If You're Nervous Firing Too Much Just Presses the Reset Button Tried to Get That Nerve to Calm down and the Way That It Works As It Sits on the Other Side of the Nerve Meeting Presynaptic or Postsynaptic What Is Really Unique about CBD Is That It Sits on the Postsynaptic Area So That It Can Jump across and Stop That Current That's Coming through All the Way so It Just Kinda Calls It down and Says Okay Just Settle down a Little Bit When Were Looking at Medications to Do This like Mira: Him Pulled Him up. The Side Effects Is the Problem with That You Get A Lot Of Side Effects Dizziness Drowsiness Loss of Balance or Coordination Dry Mouth Constipation Edema Go Back to Dry Mouth There Because My Allergies Have Taken so Much Claritin-D Right Now That I Feel like I'm Taken Yreka Adeno Tremors Blurred Vision Weight Gain Problems with Memory and Concentration so What I Really like about Doing Natural Treatments like Trying to Like CBD Is That These Are Natural These Are Already in Nature and Usually Don't End up with All These Incredible Side Effects A Lot Of the Side Effects Will Even Realize Until They Been on the Market for Long Time So A Lot Of Times These Things These Polyphenols and CBD Around for Ever More Just Now Discovering the True Potential of Them That Way You Had Mentioned I Think It Was Two Weeks Ago That Show Actually the Maybe Last Week Show That You Said That Tylenol Actually Works on the Indo Cannabinoid System But This Is Actually a Natural Way to Activate the Indo Cannabinoid System to Control Pain Correct Yes There Is This Article I Came across Were If You Look at Tylenol That It Probably Wouldn't like What We Discussed It Probably Couldn't Get FDA Approval Now Because It's One of the Leading Causes of Liver Failure Right Well They Really Never Understood How It Worked and Now It's Looking like It Works on the End of Cannabinoid Receptors So CBD Would Work Similar to What We Already Buying That Is Causing Liver Failure and so That's One of the Ways That Does Work so Margaret and Pray for This Part of That Conversation Whatsoever Have You Ever Heard of the Indo Cannabinoid System and That Everybody Has an ECS No I Do Have a Buddy That the Lake Was Telling about the CB Needs a Dispute about Trust Some of the Stuff So He Is Recently Started Taking Some Help with Some Anxiety or Some Issues That He's Got Going on But I Think If You Take It Right before You Go Get Your Pedicure That May Eliminate Some of the Tingling or Your Faith Eric It Maybe Maybe It Would like to Thank You for Your Nice Little Tip in Fact I Think You Are the One Who Gave Who Took Gag My Oldest Actually His First Pedicure so I Do Need to Thank You for That Eddie Got You Go to Guy How Is That Your Story Has Inspired Me Enough to Trying Get a Pedicure I'll Yeah You like You Walk Better Youth I Mean I It's like a Haircut for Me Now Not Only Had One Moment One Haircut Yeah Yeah I've Only Had One Haircut But the Moment That They End up Having It at an Easier Marketing Angle Towards Males I Think That They'll The Little Bit Better But Last Question about the CBD That I Had for You Being a Lawn Being a Cancer Survivor and Seeing the Progression of What People Try to Do to Help People Who've Suffered from Cancer Would You Find It We When You Are Looking for New Alternatives to Make Yourself Feel Better Going through the Chemo Going to the Surgery in the Recovery What Have You Did Anybody Really Even Approach You about That Angle Because Were Talking about Almost 10 Years Ago and I Think A Lot Is Changed Over the Course of a Decade On How People End up Feeling Better Going through a Journey like That Now That Was Never a Conversation And Part of What They Did with the Chemo Is a Absolutely Fried My Kidneys and So They Don't Function As Well As They Should so A Lot Of the Drugs That You Mention Have Some Side Effects That That Mess with Your Kidneys or Your Liver And I Just Chose Just to Be with the Pain And Me Pains like Any Other Emotion You Are Happy or Sad or Whatever That You Can Control Your Own Emotion so I Felt like I Could Control My Own Pain Really, Did That after Sleeping on the Floor A Long Time Ago Decided That I Could Control My Own Pain And I Do for the Most Part It Sure Would Be Nice Not to Have To And so This Is Something That's Fairly Recent New to Me Whether It's Medical Marijuana or Whatever It Is I Think That's Maybe an Untapped Resource That Again It's Organic It Decreasing Medical Marijuana Each Ship That You Care about Alexei Katz Is a Joke That's His Magic You It's like a Pee-Wee Herman's Playhouse Whatever They Would Say the Magic Word of the Day Medical Marijuana Chef Patrick He Hears like 232 Seconds Ago It Was Matt and Then We Say It Math Transforms into Chef Patrick Novak She Said I Was Listening I I Listened Very Closely on the CB Conversation and You Know I Can't Relate to What I Can't See My Sister Just Every Is Is Cancer Free from Colon Cancer but We We Spoke a Little Bit about You I Lost My Father to Pancreatic Cancer with the Same the Only Indicator He Had Was Back Pain By the Time They Diagnosed That Was in the 70s Right but You Know As I Started Doing Research My Mother Died at That, Make It Really Quick No CDs Are Such a Great Natural Supplement and You Guys Know Him I Don't Even Really Drink Caffeine and I Run around Here like We Want to I Just Yeah I'm Running around like I Don't I Don't Belong in This Building Now His Runner and Click on United Some CDs Right before I Can Sleep Well Last Night I Got up I Did a Three Map My Run at 430 and That She Can Wound up I Took the CBD's Right before Coming to the Side of the Building and It's Great I Just Got a Big Phone Call with a Potential Advertiser and I'm Telling You It's Unbelievable Not Just That Relaxation That Occurs Because a System for Panic Attacks the Focus That Comes with Yeah I Think That's a Big Factor As Well Not a Percent in Fact Just the Other Day There Is a a Young Man Indicated by the Name Clark and He Recently Was Diagnosed I Believe It Was a Exacerbation and Metastases of That to Secure Cancer and Enforcement They They His Prognosis Right Now Actually I Think Is Going to Be Okay but He Began Taking CBD to Help with His Pain And He's He's Run the Gamut a Little Bit and Right Now He Says He Doesn't Have The Pain Nearly at the Level That He Did before and so Obviously Comes without the Side Effects of Everything You Just Listed before So One of the Things That I Get A Lot Of Questions of Is to Know All the Other Issues Surrounding the Pharmaceutical Companies We Are to Be Having Guests on to Actually Cover the Farm Bill Which Discusses That the Texas on April 5 Was Happening April 5 April 5 Hemp Becomes Completely Non-Controlled Substance and They Bypassed Basically the the Active Legislative Session If I Understand It Correctly to Where That's Not Going to Be an Issue so Basically in a Week We Can Not Worry Get It If You're Unaware and You're Listening from Another Location Here in Texas There's 254 Counties That around 12 of Them Have Got Some I Would Consider Overly Active Either Enforcement Trying to Go after and Shut down CBD Usage and and Basically It's It out to Try to Be Mean a Thing to Someone in My Family 30 I Just Think That the Uninformed and Ordinary Having You Know That's Good to Be Part of Our Mission like My Deal Is I Want to Bridge the Gaps in Health I Want to Bring Talk about Geeky Science Stuff but Also Bridge the Gap to Natural Solutions and I Think That That Is a Good That's Just Another Puzzle Piece That Were to Be Using Percent Mark It Is Been an Incredible Show I Can't Believe That We've Artie Raced through Two Hours but This Is Mark Settlement He Soon Will Have up a Website Where He Can Basically Share That You're Going to Be a Public Speaker for Hire and You're Going to Use It to Benefit Your Chosen Charity Which Is Rock Hill Wings for Life Which You Can Find More out about It to Raquel Wings for Life.com a Transport That Patients Tend to Get Medical Care for Cancer at Indiana Soon and Usually up in Tulsa Anything You Want to Add That's It Check Upset Every Five Dollars Held Every Five Dollars Held Very Very Inspiring Story Thank You for Everything That You're Doing to Back You Get What You Get Is You Get What You Give What a Great Show so Dr. Brown's Next Week Will Have Project on Again Yes Thank You so Much for the Books I This Is the Only 24 Hour Take Anywhere Platforms Dedicated for Food and Fun Queers Spoony Hi I'm Jay Farner CO Quicken Loans 30% of Americans Who Are Planning Home Improvements of $5000 or More Will Pay for Those Renovations with a High Interest Credit Card That May Not Be a Great Idea a Better Idea May Be to Take Cash Out Of Your Home with the Quicken Loans 30 Year Fixed-Rate Mortgage the Rate Today in Our 30 Year Fixed-Rate Mortgage Is 3.99% APR 4.08% Call Us Today at 800 Quicken or Go to Rocket Mortgage.com Rates of Exchange 125% Be Received It Is Not Real Because of the Nation into Somebody Six and 130 Now Pronounce You Husband and Wife May Kiss the Bride Connecting the Care Whenever You Needed Like Video Chatting with a Doctor Right from Your Phone So I Don't Need Stitches Thank You United Healthcare Health Plan Benefits May Vary
Chef Patrick joins the show, also serving as producer of GCP for the Spoony Digital Radio station, to discuss the launch of the new show, planning executive chef level meals for large groups, and medical vs restaurant trivia!
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chase project episode number three we are still here and love and we think we can keep doing this to like episode like Joe Rogan episode number 2068 they still let us back on 2068 means only have 2065 the ghetto Jordan close we are getting closer so thank you again for joining us that the feedback is that once awesome it's a it's impressive I had no idea it this many people in such a short amount of time and want to hear what we had to say about bridging the gap between health and nine natural and medical science absolutely I love it we've been as we get to hear shortly is a big message by a bunch of people and had a lot of friends from you know all over the United States contact us and say hey that was that was interesting is recovering some cool stuff special last week with Sean Brian's on if you did not check it out please deep dive into CBD and a little bit into the cannabis industry but really cool such a deep dive that the material was so informative that YouTube of course allowed us to keep spreading the message but Facebook will hold our our recording down for little while we had replaced it with YouTube so I guess if you want to know the truth then sometimes I suppose, slow down a little bit about the debts and we covered those topics like they obviously did that because of the particular topic that were time as we are all about the science of it where showing everything that's working to do really continue to do this and today what could we have our show today we are going to be joined by Chef Patrick Mosher now if you listen to the spoony network already chef Patrick Mosher is already somebody they are quite familiar with however get experience from all different aspects of cooking for gigantic hotels being a part owner of some large chains and putting together the food items ever essentially he's he knows how to build food and how to make something out of his message is you are what you eat my messages all health begins and ends in the gut this is why teaming up with chefs and getting out those can be supercool thrilled to have him is actually the producer of our show so this is going to be any reason to tune in to be that were to move him over here and easier to be a guest so we had to on the fly he had to on-the-fly teach Eric's wife Marie to run the to the production desk over there so if anything let's just stay tuned for that because as a camera isn't where it's supposed to be don't be mad at her doing what she did she just learn how to do it two seconds ago hey you can't blame her for me setting the camera incorrectly can't blame her yelling at the right way that are really fun though regardless speaking of let's get caught up on our on our recent week weekends anything big happened with with you and your families last week it's pretty chill something conical I just mentioned a little bit about how people been messaging us now remember we are the gut check project I phrases check your ego at the door everything is on the table and somebody had messaged me on Instagram and asked why do we what was to get your project Y check your ego at the door and only last week was actually my birthday on our show and I I read a book written by Ryan Holliday called the daily Stoic all this is a fun little way to start your day by those every single day he takes a lesson from a Stoic philosopher McKenna dumbs it down and gets it through okay so March 14 was one that I had I thought it was way too coincidental that somebody message me for this and this was the actual thing so bear with me while I explain this but it makes total sense to me and this is the kind of stuff I start my day with so the quote is from DRG this layer to this Zeno would also say that nothing is more hostile to a firm grasp on knowledge than self-deception so what I like about it Reinhold he then breaks it down basically says self-deception delusions of grandeur these aren't just annoying personality traits ego is more than just offputting and obnoxious instead it is the sworn enemy of our ability to learn and grow as Epictetus said it it is impossible for a person to begin to learn what he thinks he already knows today we will be unable to improve unable to learn unable to earn the respect of others if we think were already perfect and a genius admitting it so that was the philosophy that you and I have ordered set up the show it's got check project check your ego at the door sitdown and let's learn from each other let's teach each other and that's why we have a chef on today is regularly about food right we deftly learn little about food you well it's good question so I speaking to my wife who is going to work in Camas today for a show thank you Marie this this last weekend we spent our time with my boys putting down a new floor on the chicken coop so alive has had experience in the past we've had her own chickens and we harvest on eggs is the best tasting as you can possibly imagine but if you like spending around 72 $73 and egg get yourself some chicken because it's awesome they taste terrific buddy on the great that reminds me because I do believe that you guys tried some beekeeping at one time you and I put together what we've taken care of carob some patients which I'm sure that be okay with me saying that that they were beekeepers so there was a Dr. Robert Bender was a gynecologist in town unfortunately died of cancer but it was the funniest thing having lunch with him and he thought about how him and his wife decide to get into making honey results fantastic to goes I'm a gynecologist I know how to deal with women I sent you will treat one queen really good and I get all this honey and were selling this honey its local natural honey it's $7.60 a bottle only cost me 28 per bottle exactly what you say and I love that guide I love the quote unfortunately always best on book I like it when people take risks like that kind of owner will completely own it, check your ego at the door to tell you that were having fun doing it were not making money the farm fresh eggs taste great we just got to get to the point where we don't have our dogs take chicken that's others to hate the originals you mentioned a book and some is really cool/we even reading this book from Isabella Wentz ideas yes you and I both receive this fantastic book Isabella Wentz is an amazing PhD once you have
so can I fortunately meant to admit Isabel and her husband's a year and 1/2 ago when were working in San Diego and she was diagnosed Hashimoto's and dad she then asked she was diagnosed with Hashimoto she went on to change her diet laminate some of her triggers trigger foods like gluten and dairy containing foods and then began to find that she could eliminate out that inflammation and put herself on a road to recovery it's not any different than what you wrote out what you have the Stoics book the reason was to get to project what dad Dr. RI what does chef Patrick's going to join us and talk about how you can control how you feel with great food it's no different so thank you very much Isabella for Isabella and your husband's name but will find that out and thanks so much for sending us the book W read this to recommend it to my patients you done an amazing job oh yeah Hashimoto's food pharmacology food pharmacology comes with a full meal plan at the very back with all the way down to what exactly what to buy inmates like any other recipe book but it's it's high quality tell you why why you're doing what you're doing not just eat this for here's what will do will all of them will all read come back into her like a sort of synopsis of the book once again as well thank you so much for doing that supersmart woman love talking to her when we were in San Diego with my insurer meeting that was awesome definitely absolutely season quick catch up for listening here on spoony don't forget if you want to drop by and pick up some love my tummy.com/spoony for your own are trying to heal you get a discount for using spinning is the discount code as well as check out KB MD health get your brand-new KB MD CBD in our new store so if any of you have ever read Isabella Wentz's books or if you enjoy the show at all we are all transported to other this is a rising tide will lift all ships one way to do that is to actually go to these websites purchase a product and use those codes so that everyone is trying to help each other out we want to make sure that Chef Patrick has a successful show and his network grows in the spoony radio digital platform becomes massive and one way to do it is definitely going on and supporting our sponsors without question without question will get moving here when our first half-hour and dad, the format is that we touch on health matters as they come through KB MD health was to talk about here the gut check project so can want you tell us a little bit about what is on your mind healthwise today so one of the things I mean I'm a complete nerd so you want to geek out at some point in the show and I was thinking of the articles I but I basically spent my nose in journals all day long and starts trying figure stuff out but then I came across this really cool article about the science of food and it just falls perfectly into this Hashimoto's food pharmacology and were to have Chef Patrick on here so no food is fascinating why do we like it does so many things you've got texture you've got smell you taste the consistency of it there is a whole science cold food pairing Scientology porcine science science and science technology and technology articles food pairing technology Where you look at this and you can actually manipulate which we like for instance one of the examples were the more simple examples would be like when you eat really fatty meal ribeye right will the lubrication that happens on your tongue if you do too much of it you can balance that out with an astringent thing that actually binds to proteins and gets rid of that slimy field okay so it's the balance you don't want too much of anything guess what is very stringent read one that's how come red wine pairs so well with a good adding ribeye has and an actor just get that to go away so I started going down this route a whole family's articles and I'm sure that this is second nature to the chefs out there and the other golf course that is but this work is really fun as it turns out only 20% of your taste is actually happening on your tongue okay 80% is the aroma and it's the aroma the terms on everything else so the we perceive the aromas because they interact with our olfactory nerves so as it turns out these different aromas do different things and you can augment them we talked about the entourage effect last week you can actually have an entourage effect when it comes to food by pairing certain foods that have chemically similar aroma molecules okay so in and before you do for my taking a sip of this be similar you said that you would use an astringent to basically cleanse your mouth it's really probably no different than using I'm guessing Ginger whenever you're about to eat sushi so the ginger works like that exactly so as it turns out like for instance did you know that like white chocolate and caviar go very well together did not it's wild because when you put it through when you take these foods and what the scientists are doing is they're taking the foods and they're putting it into a gas chromatograph okay and what that is is that is something that actually shows the molecular weight you can go out here despite your spike these two foods share similar spikes as it turns out white chocolate and caviar share similar spikes in that molecule is trimethyl Ammon Miriam smells like fish sure does in fact there's a disease on the side note: try methyl or I'm sorry it's try meth alanine is the molecule trimethyl and manure is one that I'm familiar with is I've actually had patients come to me and like it's weird when I eat certain foods people can't be around me there like you have a weird odor that's called trimethyl Avenue area and it's that molecule which is trimethyl M and trimethyl amine certain people have a genetic predisposition with the Caprica and I looked at them going to do anybody receipts in a like for like yeah and Mike got in all we do is change your diet problems gone yet so I could you start looking at some of the stuff in the science behind it is so cool when you're looking at the interactions what can happen is that you can have similar molecules that paying your olfactory nerve to go to your brain and go oh that's this and then if another food pairing pink that same one a little bit a little more little less so on then it heightens the first one so you can build your recipes and food off of the molecular structure and beyond the whole tongue thing you know the sweet salt bitter sour mommy the new one the earthy flavor of this is the way to really take your food to the next level and much of what chefs have probably learned Michelin star rated shaft is there already doing it without realizing that it could be based on the science of this church so for instance like a large portion of a strawberry actually has cheesy molecules really so you can sit there and pair strawberries with a certain cheese and it will augment each other the they will build each other up so really fun I never would've thought about this checking my ego at the door I start going down food science because we got a chef on the show today and then this opened up the whole thing right on the UK website now just real quick it would just be any kind she's surely has to be you would make strawberry nachos I'm just saying I can a case on top of the pile strawberries no no it has to be certain she's with similar molecules okay that have this yet and so you can go to food pairing.com and my kids are having some fun with this today where you can create a recipe so I so I looked out to Chef Patrick give me a protein anything you want give me some food product or to build a recipe offer right now live let's go with duck duck so this done whereas I specifically duck breast reason to start with this not a malady yeah okay would you like to be wild yes okay wild now will begin to do is somebody has put a duck breast into a gas chromatograph and they have figured out how to actually pay the so now foods that are similar or foods that have a molecular component that is similar include all kinds of different stuff but basically here we go I think that you should pair this with as it turns out Remi Martin cognac that's why he had his first thinking online CLE source any serious interest in their honor will find out right here what we put a citrus solicitors one day before he answers Patrick what kind of citrus would you would you already kind of will intuitively think it will because he thinks something is sweet yet astringent like can I do colorize right so you have this rich duck in and it's not just a fat ass again okay accommodation all the flavors some curious if if the classic pairing in particular is one that comes up one would match okay and also so fun about this is that now or build it so I an interesting fruit that you showed up as persimmon oh so will add that one so now it's happenings were build missile recipes so you can decide how you do this so we have the ability now to realize okay why do certain foods taste good so my son Lucas and I were talking others were having fun today looking at this and he goes wait a minute is this a way to prepare foods so that the healthier foods will seem like they taste better take so like I want to put tail and do something else with that and I'm a parent with something that'll augment the cheesy flavor of something else use less of that more of the tail they help each other out like this facet of never ever ever heard of using food pairings through molecular studies to possibly trick your brain into liking the food more making healthy food more appetizing making healthy food more appetizing as well yeah interesting yeah so just come and follow things left my nerdy clip of the of the of the show youngest and hours on there now you just ruined her life anyway though I am so what you can do is you can actually Savior food parents and my kids were doing this also and my daughter Carla built a 40 or 50 when we look at it here she started with C Urchin okay branched out and we've got all kinds of stuff see urgent tied to cow mozzarella which eventually takes us to buckwheat and you can just see how much fun this could be were you could do this and it's it's based off the realm of what I loved about what Lucas said was let's make healthy food tastier sure and do it like this sure a lot of chefs probably know this but this is a way to actually use this as this is the style that I would do when I have the Hashimoto's food pharmacology going on to make it taste a little better as a way to do nano kid let's answer bets and brilliant tool that I had never been exposed to Alec some of the idea that foods could make you smell all the different onions for instance I may not love onions but if not grilled in your eating fresh onions it's MS your partner is also eating onions it sets, no go right you and I had a discussion on and I wanted to rail us off of of building that the foods to make them taste better but wasn't that long ago you and I had a discussion about what asparagus does to urine and you said that somebody was doing a test whenever I believe you are in med school that they were basically trying to figure out how fast somebody could rapidly make the the year and change its odor from consuming disparaging of that conversation is absolutely so back in the day this during my fellowship Dr. Wessler was the was a pioneering guesser elegy he's the guy that figured out that there is such a thing as lactose intolerance and we say that like it's nothing but somebody had to figure out that there's an enzyme called lactase and so he was as it as a scientist and document it was kind of fun because he would give us a lecture every year and the fantastic guy is in his 70s just kinda having fun with us each a part-time no part-time lecturer and it would be the same lectures would be lovely pictures from like the 70s it's awesome he made everybody eat a bowl of asparagus and then they had to go P and never really had the time when they could spell when they could smell the asparagus is because that was his absorption study which are not only do away with that now ribs like you ever eat this brilliant. We started smelling yeah yeah the take away whenever you were doing that they were stressing how quickly it happened to break down the food I was really quickly in these molecules that do this – get in your bloodstream and get filtered through your and some of them remarkably quick so what do we handle distribute on about onions when people take Allison which is a garlic extract that they will actually use the garlic out of their breath out of everything because it just gets absorbed so much and that's one of the issues that my patients will have in the company will be taking supplements be like something's wrong Mark are you and Allison like yeah Mike I could smell it from here well if you happen to watch the gut check project and you want us to have the ability to tackle a new subject the best thing to do is go to KB MD health.com escaping the health.com go to the gut check project show you'll find that there is the ability to connect with us and submit something he wants to tackle that's really how we the last two weeks we stumble across what we've always come across to talk about we cover so much ground he only would it be really cool we were talking last week about bringing Dr. Blair on Col. Blair onward and talk about TBI right now imagine doing the product light on the hospital's trauma hospital we have a food protocol for traumatic brain injury we don't have CBD protocol with DHEA or any that stuff when the beat amazing week ago were going to be a brain information diet your to be on the supplements and this is the protocols can happen that's the goal of this whole thing is to bring science and I mean a whole separate show would be talking about so fewer of thing which is a molecule and cruciferous vegetables like broccoli was it turns out it's really really good for you it's anticancer it's anti-inflammatory but when you cook it the enzyme can't break it down called the Rawson Ace and so like a little hack would be a chef we can sit there and say no were to put some of mustard seed powder on it and then it will actually convert it so you just made your broccoli or broccoli sprouts way healthier sure so if you ever get diagnosed with cancer and there's all these crazy studies about like bladder cancer and stuff like that when you do that like I would love to have a protocol food protocol what you're gonna do the Hashimoto's food protocols right there working have a food protocol if you get this venture headed that way no joke on the Chrysippus vegetables they come with them basically so you're blocking the estrogen correct correct yeah not separate magical inane speaking of preservice vegetables B cauliflower just last night my wife and I went to go eat pizza awesome pizzeria and actually make gluten-free pizza the crust was made out of cauliflower it's amazing what they're doing cauliflower now because it taste like great bread and is not read it all basically having a great Chris Arafat's vegetable while you're eating a delicious pizza and were hoping that in spray glyphosate on it so that it's a good skill LOL yeah non-GMO vegetable crust they taste just like regular bread is real know I love all of those cauliflower crust so it is delicious so we've got about half a minute here before she attaches going to join us in the next half hour just a quick reminder if you are watching spinning network EA know if you haven't you read to be sure and check it out there is also the no-show is hosted by Alisa Shakespeare Alicia Shakespeare and her name her shows no butts to big snow but stupid' TS is too big to get out it's a great show and we will join you in the next half-hour dry don't ill make you feel really good about yourself doing something good for somebody else if you'd like to do that today J DRF.org join them in the fight against type I diabetes J DRF.org it's something good you can do for the world.org hey guys Matlock the conservative cartel I like to take a minute and tell you about a new weight loss product that's instantly becoming part of the mojo 50 family it was launched by a Dallas area company when taken the good stuff and olive oil created a patented product that helps people control their appetite and lose weight 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dish authorized retailer now 800-570-6630 800-570-6630 – 800-570-6630 offers required critical location 20 from early termination fee any auto vein restrictions apply call for hi it's Doc Thompson for Matthew 25 ministries Matthew 25 ministries is one of the few charities all actually endorsed because I know them I've worked with him and I know almost all the money that you donate goes to help people go to M2 5M.org M to 5M.org and welcome back to the project this is GCP and Mayor Gregor joined by your host Dr. Ken Brown what is up check your ego at the door let's learn some stuff hey guess what we have now our second ever guest our third ever show so we figured it out third ever show you never say never guess we are joined to my right the man the myth the legend Chef Patrick Mosher hey don't you know that's that's quite an intro not sure I can live up to you lots not bad for sending DUI if you live in an Iraq chef Patrick does a lot of everything is chef obviously he also produces many the programs here on spoon radio he drives fast he texts and drives he doesn't sleep he likes his smile he likes to laugh Emily now I only text voice text almost and I just use a series command so if it comes in a garbled and funny blame Siri yeah well I just made it up at any another string I like you I drive lightning I got around on the weekends between here and there for work in any other time off I have so like the real work so doctors are unique persons are they have unique personalities I chefs are I think they take the cake and fruit upon the intended I've met a lot of chefs and a lot of sepsis patients and I am just fascinated by that lifestyle that you don't thank you so much for coming on we talked earlier about how Isabella went send us her book and last hour talk about how food is you are what you eat all health begins and ends in the gut and here we are we've got a chef with some serious experience you have you have done a lot if you think you and I worked at been fortunate to work all over the world I asked you can start my culinary career in Japan well as I started my culinary career career in a Sizzler steakhouse when I was like 14 what what kind scissors Western Sizzler is yearly wishes Sizzler stay cast so Sizzler was a pretty big Chad pretty chain back in the 80s and early 90s her hand so I would see I was the busboy dishwasher at the scissor state has until Thursday night came around I got Says that as a dishwasher busboy and apparently on Thursdays there is all you keep popcorn shrimp so the kitchen as he was like okay cool I'll cook so I was Sam's bussing outback that he can put 10 piece shrimp on any given play because it's all you can eat right there Arizona State football team and command after he simply teachers that your back in your ear like helping other iron in their back there, laughing at you because they get your percentage of your tips not only do the hardest job is to clean the fire at the end of the night but they get your money it only took me at six weeks to figure that out here and I was like man I'm the dumbest guy in the planet and and shrimp everywhere feared you yeah you know what's it's interesting that my first job in the kitchen sent me home smelling like seafood because leaders are progressing to see Sheehan seafood specifically every night was like a gate getting came to bed before he took a shower because your sheets are just a mistake in his previous but it is what is your family was your family a frequenter of the Sizzler growing up yes we reduces her in Omaha Nebraska so the salad bar limits telephone the logic of that was just going there my favorite item there as a kid was that not any part of the salad that the canned chocolate pudding for whatever reason quite nutritious goes right alongside the square chicken fried steak so this is what I love me with with your culinary chops that has gone all the way to Japan to learn this is where you start is frying shrimp and it says look I lasted about two weeks at McDonald's for that but I don't really count that right now I have nobody ever does now I was acquitted sure what I should do to food my father had a large garden but we lived in upstate New York and the town of Carinthia Corinth if you live there it's near Saratoga Springs Albany that area coming in the middle of steak and damn mind my dad's entire family all of his siblings except one brother lived it within a mile of each other on the same road and my grandfather owns a few sections of land on either side he had a dairy farm and then a large vegetable garden and my father attended at least an acre garden every year so we spent summers as I was like three on the pic means you're picking beans and snapping beans and helping mom put stuff in jar so she could cannon like a cat I am not sure I tell my first culinary job as a real job in the family right up your alley just doesn't work out well my grandfather's letter to cattle every winter and then we split the meat up but amongst the family charities usually did two more later but early in the winter the first big heavy snowfall made at and C have to string them the absolute peace how you gently say you killed him he just killed the bank and then… Our first episode we are to explain my background were Eric would go with his dad to register you and I would go to the slaughter house and my dad was a running neck and since that's what you're saying that let me know know it's not actually it's more like the ad that gasped AGI part O… Depart this maybe maybe maybe I missed my calling but before they can ask to get the animal there something has to be done so they hang it up upside down you have to climb up a ladder and you have to I was five years old when I was taught this my first time you to cut around the muscle up around of the maintenance and yet the tide because if you don't when the stomach elongates it's a geyser oh comes at the back is so that was my first real job for the family in slaughtering B was I got to climb the ladder and hi Taft about who I now I am I much rather have a mean as more or less permanent constipation makes total sense what you were drawing you like him to know where you already you know why writing for lent for several years plus the cost so after you had the exposure to the dairy farm and all the vegetables then that obviously is setting a foundation for you to get into food you probably had no idea that's where your leaning but i know i did and i really my mother was a great cut my father was a good cook a very good cook and her whole family every every that revolved around food okay so as i got my father died very young i was six years old he died to great cancer at 47 while yes and dad back then there was no really no treatment by the time they figured out why you had back pain is been much over and anyway so but i spent a lot of time when my mother cooking after that – i just i just picked up i really love food i did i i was fortunate enough to move to germany my senior year in high school and the family that that that i lived with that hosted me was very generous in that we had to get other countries in and dine on some fantastic food and food as a way of life for them and in germany is where i learned about minimalism in the covered you know because they have dorm style refrigerators don't have baked refrigerators are slightly larger than little boxes you have in your dormitory in the shop every day every single day at least once a day to shop as it was for your bracket was delivered in the morning fresh while that's pretty interesting. it was awesome so i just a side note growing up and watching my grandmother cook my dad's mom she was she was fantastic i loved her fried chicken as she fried a lot of stuff but for some reason back then she still remained skinny but she and i don't know if your mom or your dad was like this my grandmother could flavor anything to taste terrific fried chicken chicken fried steak vegetables etc. but one of her trademarks was to always cook with a cigarette hanging out of her lip that was flavored building with burn ashes in there as well as i think that she saved all the different kinds of meats that she brought in the oil and in different folders cans fish oil and that chicken grease etc. is it something that you also did not say new york yeah you don't weld eventually i think had a different flavor and if it will will start thereby produce because we have burn pile of year trees that would fall with a lot of property and we burn on the actual garden so what would and might my father would rotate back and forth into plots so each season the previous year's burn pile become the new garden in city dias content right the potash well – content was really high so a lot of minerals and i mean it's it's amazing how healthy the vegetables are when you do that you people used to take the ashes from the fireplace and put them into the burn pile into their compost deep sure we don't anymore but that is not right there was just fantastic for the flavor and the freshness of vegetables but my money as she skewed everything okay you accept what you call it swiss steak was boiled whatever lien beef steak she could buy it was the cheapest cut with a bone in it and smothered in them tomatoes and garlic and then she broil that the oven it was actually pretty good – he sounds delicious compared to what were some of the first part of the show what i'm thinking is that you know smoking has a lot of it is a carcinogen known as benzene but we should do is see the chemical structure similar to benzene to add that good childhood flavor that you're missing the smoke when without getting the cancer yeah yeah probably so he can get you can put winston cigarettes into the mass spectra shouldn't even pops out to charge me figure out figure out what fruit or vegetable has a similar molecular component near benzene time answer i'm interested that i'm really curious about that this is a fascinating science for me and i'm thinking i could just as i could change my restaurant consulting business to just be menu consulting based on this and take the elevator TO
oh yeah absolutely this is the kind of stuff and we wouldn't be talking about if we were preparing for the show i was just i was just a deal try to think of okay what's a really cool thing we talk about i have to sciences up i like it i'm a nerd and i'll probably try do this with every single topic that we do find something that yes really fun oh terrible that would be really cool so you're sitting there sobbing for your dispose of this great organic before organic was cool you guys had a mechanically warm touch poor poor alright so what happened after that we moved arizona which was a whole different thing i learned about spicy spicy foods right my first meal out in every week and eat out a lot as a child very rarely maybe once or twice a year at the most we went to this little mexican restaurant between chandler and gilbert arizona which are now massive towns that have grown together but then they were just very small towns and that limit its cost is something this little mexican place and i had a chimichanga's mother eating spicy green chili salsa and i went ballistic it was it was done i was never anything but eat tasty food again and and and and not healthy necessarily but flavorful food and that that cannabis bondholder you and you live down there is i guess i was in sixth grade summer and allowing a nice set of a few years so then you you progress through graduate and then you end up oil before you graduate you worked the sizzler and then how did you decide that food beyond being told they arraigned a danger going to do popcorn shrimp something you want to pursue and deliver to people to make him happy what i had few other jobs cooking after that but what i realized is that no matter how how cash strapped your family might be there is always food in the restaurant and she works there used to get some of it for free sure so i think that was it i think mentally i determined never be hungry again right and i just parlayed into into a career but i really and start cooking full-time jobs in japan is working as an interpreter such working as a copywriter start get some interpret good job in japan like writer i did for chemical trans tech international they were a check technical translation company the parents of a friend of mine had come to united states to go to school in eighth grade and stayed all the way through high school they owned and ran the company in osaka japan and he invited me to come and work for them after while i was acting in college time well so i heard you speak german and you also speak japanese type hello, so wow so this is fascinating so chefs or super intelligent people that know i'm serious. many of my friends are chefs or people of extremes share the nar that is fascinating you speak japanese german english to work and back doing appetizer version and it was as fascinating i love you and japanese chefs are so meticulous they have the waiting approach for japan and she had a proverb that defines through japan and it's it's it's that the only the audience at is actually it's it's not just food it's the food it is the substance of the universe right so their philosophy is let it let little seem like much as long as it is fresh and beautiful let little seem like much, as long as it is fresh and beautiful so small portions very ornate and well garnished very clean and seasonal seasonal is the key word there and typically local all just too far ahead but i do remember one of our previous conversations you did say that you were with the noble as well greg i did work for number for number years i actually i was the executive chef and that helped open a restaurant in aspen last month he said that's his last name and then i was fortunate similar location so in a minute i'll imagine all those principles that you're talking about probably carried over to the live presentation the food yeah you know honeywell there's a whole another layer there and he he lived and worked in peru for a long time and he was fascinated by french cooking techniques so he took these japanese base ingredients added the layer of the like infuse the flavors of's of peru and chile and then to add that to another level by using french cooking techniques and just phenomenal stuff while yelling at ocean would say there so my family were huge asian cuisine fans all of it our favorite restaurant is actually japanese restaurant in plano we go there at least once a week really i mean you can send him a plug – or llama iam a check now yeah we have the it's just unbelievable it's it's it's it's good and sensitive i think is very very traditional japanese food had told me our waitress is always our waitress so we just sit around and through to start showing up that's what i love the methodical just this is what's happening it is predictable it is well and it's thoughtful thoughtful yes so it here's a really interesting cultural thing from japan is a great book called mino because with some the dip the anatomy of interdependency okay okay describes her whole culture one of things in japan and when you start a sentence they finish it for you like ice to teach for this guy jenna ricci he had two small children i spoke in my itouch spoken english i taught them english and japanese speaking is my second day speaking with so gimme a break he would call in and he would say i think you and i say yes he is jonah lychee desiccated and will mean this is generally key and he just stopped and i'm supposed to finish since you must be calling about but i wish i didn't know that right some just like okay hi i just wait for him to say something but eventually you learn it's like him japanese interject a lot they say hi a so they stay in there what they're doing is they might say yes oh is not so there interjecting to let you know there listening actively listening even if they say something in agreement it does mean they agree okay i mean yeah but anyway back to the point i was making is when somebody hurts a guest and some house for the first time in you they say would you like some coffee and you say yes they don't ask you how you want to and they don't bring you the things to put cream and sugar in it they automatically put in cream and sugar because the first time as a guest in their house you should not have to think about how you want your coffee served from then on you can just make your own but the date alleviate the pressure from you even if he didn't want it that way and you accept it graciously because that's the generosity they're getting you to relieve you of the pressure of having to say would you please fix it this way oh wow cool yeah there's so many layers of complexity to japan's culture that's all that's a month that well that's a whole series of shows for next year while even a chef for a long time what would be something that in the year in the realm of being a master chef going from the being taught japanese in the office it was some french i carryover what what take your take you to your favorite style of the play setting now i thinks my love simplicity and food such il might my mother she stupid a lot of things but were really great fresh ingredients if it wasn't steered my father was a big fisher and fishman and hunter and so we had a lot of wild game he had we always had a ton of venison backstrap a lot of rabbits a lot of fish so everything is very simple when we went camping my father did take stuff for dinner he would hunted or efficient while a fish will also describe the pressure then a joke yeah yeah tv show now yesterday i really afraid survive as their grills at this time you shop for breakfast but you a loser it was very simple food so you take out lemons potatoes salt pepper and onion and so if if you cut trout then he to be slice of the potato and onion stuff inside with a couple of wedges lemon slices lemon salt-and-pepper and then wrap it will a pat of butter there wrapped up in tinfoil turn on the fire you know if there is other game to be had than it was you super simple or boiled potatoes and simple fixings and then salt-and-pepper on one of the game and so these really clean simple flavors for me i really would identify with any candidate that you can't really elevate that sure with a few adjustments but really being able to identify the main component like the center of the play item the protein if you can't taste what it's supposed to taste like i'm not sure what the point is sure will will today you just unit of joining us because you had just left a gigantic gathering that you are asked to basically help map out how do you know whenever you have so many mouths to feed that you know i'm going to be able to put together this coming plate to serve this this type of convention or do they give you parameters of what they do and don't want hello hello yeah so i'm to make so many development or menu yeah menu development or menu selection for any large parties very very critical because you have to think about if you have have multiple selections especially then what is the em what is the time to plate each item on a plated is his buffet mean all that comes into play i've done parties as large as 2100 people we get i work for a company in houston and we get a large plated dinner for the md anderson cancer research center answer hospital is so wheat we did 2100 people seated but the preparation for that took a week but nothing is really cooked until needed some things are made today before but not cooked until that day but all the proteins like all the tenderloins all the seabass so there are 1100 pieces seabass and 1400 piece of tenderloin while the kennels were hole we had to cut them i i had cut the measure but yeah that's that was we we all that gets cooked in ovens lined out inside of this big giant makeshift kitchen that's 20,000 ft.² and then we had 16 ovens in there like big commercial ovens do you feel like that your principles and how you wanted to live you want to deliver good health for people through the way that they eat that sometimes you get compromised because it gets so big yeah i mean hat so there are ways to dragon simplicity is number one pitcher and then limiting your your menu to items that fit your your desires and what you want to give to people and bring people in the hospitality industry you can't compromise that so only serving things that you may look for an alternate approaching so if they couldn't afford the that tenderloin we could do something like baseball saker you know tri-tip or something like that site to get a similar quality product just not as expensive i think that's that's part of the creativity that chefs have to work with nowadays is planning for and like an upcoming season we change menus to the four times a year restaurants so you're primarily doing this right now for your work also i do that yeah i mean ii will this is your this is my baby i want to get into that as this is how did you end up here doing a digital show but friend will talk about sorry love you so much anyway but the planning phase is really what it is yet to be very organized and there's a science to you know how many pieces everything you need what the portion sizes and what your standard batch size recipe see to scale that up although there can be complications or because salt doesn't scale directly other some other components like oil don't care they don't scale you know it's not exponential it's not like six times this equals that know if the scale somethings back and skipping some something so what i love about this is that you're talking zach the kind of leads into the first part of the show but this is how i cook i view it more as a science and i want to know what this and you're like i don't i didn't have a grandmother with a marble light in her mouth inside yeah so like now at the stage like i have a really i really enjoy quickbooks us all so excited that isabella went something cookbook i got bobby flay's cookbook which is that one on the quick side note is that the ill be like now add the sausage you like got it and then you turn to page 20 like that sauce is 50 and so there is a very famous book book called the the reese's gag gastronomy great and and there's another one by written by august escoffier who who really founded modern french cuisine right in the way that they cooking french kitchens and what happens it'll say like a cookie was a shock which is its sea scallops with marty athos or something right when he says cc the scalp recipe and it says okay now seat recipes 42 918 when you go to the buyer the year but is like 97 steps and then you have the mornay sauce is like when yeah whatever whatever size you are making is like 467 steps and you can't make it you can't story cold as beheld hot and fresh i mean it's just it's so complicated i was like okay that was go back on the shelf and maybe never adult ever dust the back off again i read it religiously 1000 cal you have a terrible cook and sometimes whenever i want to cook and i'm learning to tip these says certain things together if i see that there's a whole another mess of steps to make one ingredient i usually light which is not have any this it's it's changing out the menu the item is off the menu are going to do something well and that's part of the so i'll say on the show sometimes i don't i don't do show prep well i crept much better for life in restaurants than i do life on the radio sure and sometimes i get half with your essay like this make sense now that in the night so i spent a minute research demo i did next he read the recipe i just assume that this is what they meant because this is the type recipe so pre-reading the recipe knowing the ingredients in the methodology they're coming up are really important during the prep work will before we end up rounding out the last is our since you are one of the main producers for the spoony digital radio station we will get to why you ended up joining spoony radio etc. but tell us little bit about some of the other shows that i can and i are just now joining cemented lisa shakespeare she she actually has a her show no butts to big is phenomenal she's very energetically young lady but she had some health issues and she owns a company called total cluster fudge which is not so there's another new and called some monkey butts but that one is is the healthy version of the desert she does now for total cluster fudge and as this dessert manufactures she had to stop eating the things that she makes in the said these are carried in them convenience stores and cosco and there sold over the internet and at some restaurant seasons well which which is great she touched details each watching three healthy tips and tricks to just we held your life every day and along those lines is gwen rich of the rich solution solution yeah she's just stage iv cancer for the last 6 1/2 years she's why she looked way past her expiration date as she and her husband adam say that she was misdiagnosed for eight years before that so she gives tips on eating mortgage with more nutritional value more healthful and how to if you have been diagnosed how to prevent being diagnosed as best as possible that's the very first show i did with dr. thompson you rest his soul you are supposed to sit on my show he's an undertaking to get here early and you shall prep well i love this didn't really into it like that we can do so we can include the chemistry can say how do we make these things healthier like increase yourself you are paying and stuff like that euro lutherans all these big words that basically you can eat well and you're really healthy why don't i mean we have room for play marsh joseph you want to collaborate that were ready to go yet get so we have you have a minute here for you to wrap this this part up so if you're watching now stay tuned you can always check out love my tummy.com/spooning to pick up electron teal caving de health.com he can pick up your kb md cbd next half-hour going to talk to shift patrick little bit more about not just what is done as a chef or what brought them to spoony that also you also required to experience with cbd chef patrick and told us stories night shift well you know this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun we're spoony this hour from townhall.com, the fbi joining a criminal investigation of the faa certification process for the boeing 737 max a jetliner the blazer crash since october killing more than 300 people there are a number of inquiries getting underway including one by the transportation department inspector general and another investigation by congress in the wake of the mosque shootings new zealand's government banning military style semiautomatic firearms in high-capacity magazine prime minister jacinda arter and says additional gun control measures in the pipeline's motor began entrance to look at issues around licensing issues around registration issues around storage there are a range of either an image that we believed to need to be night and it will be the second tranche of reforms yet to come following a visit to ohio today vice president from in michigan in grand rapids tonight the president will address supporters at a make america great again political rally's trip to west michigan follows a daytrip to politically important ohio yesterday where he reminded factory workers about the economic gains during his time in office with 2020 democratic candidates already crisscrossing the country look for president from to also be traveling to states that will be crucial or his reelection greg clugston at joint base andrews in maryland national guard troops been called in residence being told to stay inside after elevated levels of benzene were detected your houston-area petrochemical storage facility that can't fire this week several school districts also canceling classes for the day citing bad air quality the national weather service is warning the plotting and parts of south dakota and northern iowa it soon reach historic levels floodwaters have driven a lot of people out of their homes, several midwestern states wall street the dow up 57 points the s&p seven point tire one of the stories@townhall.com if you are trying to quit drinking or doing too many drugs listen to me you don't know me and will never meet i had a problem like you want i drank and used a party a little too much till he got out of control and almost ruined my life i realize i needed help to fix my problem before it totally destroyed me if you tried to fix your drinking and drug problem and you know you can't do it alone you need to call the national treatment advisors they'll immerse you into a 30 day program to replace your old habits with new habits and totally change your life and if you have ppl private health insurance the entire program may be covered fix your problem right now before it gets any worse get clean call now and learn more 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 it looks like you're losing i am i losing weight i am losing my lost about 10 pounds how are you doing it funny name but i've done it with review zone rad use zone.com and the stuff works it's you get it all that the molecule this found in that all i can tell you is it it's a it makes you feel full and it keeps your mind off of wanting to overeat and also boost your metabolism as your done and more guys try it today it's gonna work for you like his work for brad and countless other people read you zone.com are idus zone.com fast track student loans can get your student loans out of the vault stop any wage garnishments stop collection calls and stop seizure of your tax refund give yourself a break to stop the stress and get your student loan payments down to as little as $25 a month based on what you can afford to pay 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 six booty food and fun okay we are back for another half hour of gut check project it said year three join here with your host dr. kenneth brown this is awesome so this next half hour should be hilarious because were going into chef stores but more important on which we don't do the job we have are from producer marie rieger how we doing i just cannot send it down alright we have also our guest here and i sent to patrick when i speak to eric when she speaking to micah when i got like this to make sure i keep okay so there is something i have instructions already well so for all of about what one hour is so so you start doing this we have this thing guys have this thing i have to always tell people to come and see you keep the microphone close never looks at me with disdain like like i know guys have this phobia about putting something phallic looking right up to your mouth and show a smile and wave smiling way to be okay :-) how these on an emory better nothing ice not well we left off this last half-hour basically talking about your journey on how to become a chef and where you been we learned that he spoke japanese and german hello the spanish and if he traveled and and it the age of five was able to close a cow: yes tied off time off dear: close to a man climbing up the oh my goodness that's like everything but the last half-hour makes me just feel bad about myself wanting you bring your homework for kindergarten and also to maybe climb the cow instead of a ladder knife in her hand and run around your neck you will tell us a little bit more about your journey now to rejoin here the next for some in the next half-hour you have moved into not just shiftwork but you've also been exploring cbd so i know you got a story behind it what in the world brought a chef is now on a digital radio station to explore cbd well just because he was my was my hero back in high school not really know because my my mother died in a diabetic appeared my father passed of pancreatic cancer and my mom died 01 and about that time i actually heard about that they discovered cbd and that was mid 80s i think when they discover that they were really starting to realize that while they made a big push medical cannabis was now legal in in california working on colorado and so i was just fascinated by that how that worked in the body i i don't like the psychotropic effects of of kinsey's audience is the antiaging specific because you know as a chef i always want to fill a coming control yeah that's that personality so i i really am i never really partook in it but when i found out about that that cds and how they affect the body i got became fascinated and so i just i got involved in a business that was related data in and i'm actually a partner in medical cannabis related business and in an tactic, and in massachusetts but we do a lot of really high cbd extremely low thc strains and stuff like that that's cool so my my experience the reason why i'm so into cds that you know i kinda had a heroes journey where i saw some incredible fact did you have anything like that happen yeah so i you and i think i cacti brushed over that little bit with my children but so my son and daughter have a i'm a 20 else on an essential daughter my son was 12 he kept having these ankle injuries playing soccer and he was trying to get into that a lick big development pool and kinda girl that way anyway so about the third time we took him in for ankle sprain in like six months we took him to specialist but i trust and she does i is really long high arches and his ankles are kinda rolled out he think he has cmt like cmt i don't cmts but so charcot-marie-tooth syndrome causes degradation of the neural pathways between and in the in extremity skin it causes type of neural what neuropathy peripheral neuropathy measure and what happens with that and that that the small muscles start to weaken the bone structure starts to deform so a lot of children or or adults with that with cmt will have like a limp wrist were that the wrist turns in and out a little that is truly painful it can be and will actually ache it can be painful but in this case you have to start to lose sensation so my son at 12 is about between 17 increased 18% deficient in the pass-through of you know the impulse from elbow to fingertips and needed toe okay so after testing their likely something that you can do just keep them strong become a fiscal therapy there's no treatment for its tenets genetic so over time my daughter started getting injuries and my son went off to a 2 am text dammit 18 and as as he was like a 18 a week i think his birthday just to curry start school and he was competitive tennis players i know you have a tennis person family and when a debtor where the antennas from the bottom that's right that's right that's right state championship anyway he was having ankle injuries there so when he came out of that that program the only thing i found i done thousands of hours of research looking for anything that could help them in the only true they say is stay strong be active don't get fat that's the three ways that you treat yourself boxers there's nothing else that they've known to to cause any actually to delay the effects of it if if if it is to progress further than staying strong and healthy and so he was very active but i found this this article the cds actually on that while website that i shared with you called echo connection.org and i did some reading i called some friends i talked to guy another dr. physician california anyway so i just i order my said look you take this twice a day and let see what happens and not only did his focus on his schoolwork away up and his grade started to get better six months let lesson six was later we took him to the texas anam research facility where they do studies on neck back and spine injuries but they also do some neural testing and things like neurological testing so first date they deliver the jet they did not look to the genetic marker on that wednesday we know he has it so what they did do a stated a more comprehensive testing on the neural pathways than he had originally the first two times and it was back to hundred percent so now before he was down he said 1718% he's probably got 25% by the time we took in it by the time he went at this time to be tested so i'm gonna kick that up and break something the results we got scolded for i now i do not migrate a hearing and i just want to be a rock star please not constant today this is my season recap though your son that the biggest change in imago simply does adding this evening i was the only change made the only change that was made in his diet and i was very very he's a very clean eater he actually started cooking his own food he was off his meal ticket at school and he saves on a very at enthusiastic weight training program that he designed himself and so but that was the only thing that changes diet and exercise regimen at all we will be look at this if you realize that charcot-marie-tooth syndrome affects the nerves and we know the cbd of the endo cannabinoid system is deeply rooted in the nerves then when that you start decreasing that inflammatory process and what i love is that you just said the key here is to changes.we know that food can be just like medicine and it can actually help out so here we have a college student it's on cbd and eating his own food not eating on diet plan that's amazing and he been well i mean an end at home he was a very clean eaters while he's like the one person the family does like desserts he won't eat cookie dough like anything with frosting on it very low sugar intake refined sugar like fruit didn't live on it measures none none that i'm aware of it i would like to ask a question he has them his hands and feet are always cold but he does have hair side of the follicles can't really thinking that you can go here with any without any ennui that i thought it might be circulatory service account because there's little knowledge syndrome 90 there were to get a little cold and you your it's an autoimmune it's component of autoimmune disease were your arteries sort of clampdown its interest is also a warning sign for autoimmune diseases top bring us more yeah and angry people all over the place have nods yet it's not uncommon you say it just kinda matter-of-fact all of a sudden you know she had 100% improvement there and you know it's one of those things where people hear the stories and you feel like you're being sold something but you say very genuinely it's like what's this thing that a difference in his life and that's why people are so passionate about cbd gasoline and like i have nothing to gain by telling so i don't not financially sure i'm not rr production facility is even open it were still the middle building it in our tech companies $14 million away from making money so if you want to join in the future of the industry go ahead but yeah there is that i just tell my story to share with people so what did you do when you did when whenever he told you how he felt and you knew that it was a real difference it wasn't it wasn't just subjective it was an objective improvement for him you mentioned his grade you mentioned his his mood is energy etc. so those are things as a parent i know that you would be able to easily perceive what did you want to do that information right off the bat and how did people receive it when you shared well immediately i started taking the product i started my daughter I and so because i want to know the effexor and audiology i for someone who is so well versed in the in the in the industry i don't take it on a regular basis i don't know why i have this it's just it just falls off the plate with so to speak when when i look at my daily supplementation but but so i put my daughter on it right away and then i went to a meeting with some people that were interested in cbd's there is a conference going on and i spoke i gave but i just told my sent store i told my story my son story from my perspective and then and i just type i have been an advocate ever since while we all have kids guessing your kids suffer from anything just well there's no way to ike i can't that's got me held that the greatest loss of for anyone ever is to lose a child but even when they're ill i mean or they don't feel well they can't tell you why they don't feel well it is heartbreaking especially when you know they're in pain my son was having constant ankle injuries and yet which it was it was painful to watch he was he would just recover member he was he was a pretty competitive tennis. plated private club in the woodlands using a tournament and down rolled his ankle had to take nine weeks off now physical therapy four days a week the first match he plays doubles with the players never played where they paired with an adult player and and he goes out and second strike on the ball rolls ankle again yeah it was it was really saddening just couldn't could maintain terrible but he'll never lie but that's the thing it cities are great at repairing pathway has you can ever reshape the structure of the feet and you can but that surgery is really risky sure so which which shows that as chef will talk about this kind of on break about using seating cooking in this things doing any of that i have so actually i do a cooking show Skating show for purple haze radio which is actually on yes another side of this is leon hendrix this is jimi hendrix younger brother he owns a capital purple haze radio and another called purple haze property in california and there on the – radio platform which spent years on as well anyway they asked me to do calves couldn't show i started doing that that was i don't really cook with candace i cook with cbd and i have people talk about the effects of cannabis or have them talk about their dishes but it's it say it's a fascinating science immediate cbs that she can only heat to a certain point before it starts to break down so when you're baking say cookies or dog treats which you speak about last show if you get over i want to say 360 or 365 it starts to break down that cannabidiol and specific cbd itself i did not know yeah now not so so cookies are a little softer and more gooey and crumbly but i mean it's still a fascinating science it's it's fun to work with and it's just it's in its infancy really were just learning about it as we mentioned last show at some point i'm a gastroenterologist we will have endo- cannabidiol logistics absolutely as doctors there's a company here actually there some gemini had on the show that i interviewed and they have a they're doing seeping out cbd now cbd infused meals for veterans there are veterans and that they all have some sort of scars from that whether their emotional or physical and they all noted that either medical cannabis or cds were very very helpful in treating their their health issues sure and and so they started a company to found a company here that that's what they did its cloud nine meals and now they're waiting to as the medical cannabis side will eventually open up in taxes than the work on putting the tt component in there but for now they deliver cbd infused meals to veterans that is amazing how you you said and you mentioned early in the last half-hour did you know that food is something food is medicine you can help you'll feel better do you find it getting into that being a cannabis chef it's simply a stronger extension on your mission to help people eat better and eat and enjoy what they're eating yeah i mean it is but here's the here's the thing chefs are notorious for not leaving the lifestyle that the case for minority think nor do they typically eat the food that they're putting on the plate for the diners meals in restaurants are very her and we talk about family meal in a restaurant a lot of times this is not time for family meal so what we do is chassis we we allow the net family meal working on the scrambling for last you know it's like him were like the ducks but underwater with a great the swan is gracefully going along that's that that's the controlled chaos you see in a restaurant chef is run around in circles like the legs under the water that look like describe what it's like so i'm a huge fan of all those movies like chef and burdens and whatever hundred foot journey you and all those things like i love watching those kind of i love that movie like a chef and when all time favorite culinary yeah i love it so described to me with the last hour is eric you actually worked in the restaurant industry but i haven't so like what is it like when you're closing down the restaurant tell me what the what time you going home all that stuff okay so i typically work in restaurants that would close around 10 pm 1030 or sometimes i have a bar menu so you may be here till midnight alright so basically with the chef runs off the line to start the orders and as you do in your sheet you try to gauge whether or not you can shut down the fryer is it is it our unit more gas because if not that save you 20 minutes later in our deal letting it warmed out enough to take the oil out no clean it so wired in orders and you start directing so he starts the swab and the deck basically right they start scrub the floor but they don't squeegee it yet because you don't want to squeeze even till everybody's feeder do not touch the flooring more than one person starts going and pulling out everything from inside under the cut the cabinets of the site 1030 if the restaurant close that say 11 they start pulling all the food not changing everything while taking stock of how much is left in every pan of every ingredient and flipping we called flipping pantry put in is a new fresh container a clean one and all the dirty stuff goes to the to the dishwasher now the dishwasher starts getting grumpy because now he stockpiling up cs to bring either a cup of coffee or a drink right to calm him down and say hey wait wait we get a look we got will allow us to report you have that you take out the dishwasher no matter what you think is the most important person in the restaurant is without clean dishes you have no pallet to serve on so take care your dishwasher so then the chef gets the orders done checks the line make sure the fees going out goes into call the orders in any start cutting people you like okay it's really slow because everybody but one person now it's 1030 or 1035 and maybe 1045 that one person like a chef was stuck step out have smoke would you watch lines to your ear like financing you take yourself not your calling hours all the sunday ticket missing his shtick each ggg it's the sound of money and frustration right to 20 just walking chef 80 thinking my told me i sky everybody like 15 minutes ago well i'm sorry they just walked in they decide we were still open i have to serve them so now you have two people try to serve a 10 or 20 top and your children get orders on time you try to clean all the stainless like everything the kitchen get scrub from your head to toe every night all the hoods they get wiped down to get cleaned he can have grease dripping on the food the next day all the filters that spartanburg were they really do scrub down everything in writing that's daily that's daily yeah and some a lot of that gets done between shifts like everything from the waist down interest in the restaurants i operate gets cleaned twice today so after lunch and then at the end of the night as well and i come in the next morning and if i didn't close restaurant down you first thing it is walk the restaurant with a notepad and start looking at all little things that i notice i open doors and say okay distorting it close on the way the temperature is too high in here to have a thermometer in every single door for every undercounter refrigerator throughout this this this and this okay so you need to get you to make it up i get you only an extra shifty don't you get paid for a bit summoning his night off he gets takers i mean i would do that but threatened to so i it's been a long time snowboarding restaurant but from my experience and how i recall you only described about 10% of shutting down the restaurant i am not to mention the drinking that goes on just seeking can shut you over the nearest diner yet so now you're a chef you're shutting down mentally but you're doing all this so you're not eating yet so i know i let friends and correct me if this is wrong with her like it's not uncommon to be in a drive-through line at whataburger on the way home do jack-in-the-box dollar tacos baby deep for nothing to deep-fried taco filling up at the asian fusion arts/chemistry $200 equipment $200 per person for any course meal yeah and i'm to go to the dollar menu no so for me a late night and me there is a lot of fast food eaten and restaurant and the restaurant world just because a transfer time a lot of times you can't afford the food that you're serving if you're in of the employee near the employee menu does not to get to the opportunity so so that's a big event that you eat fast delete close to get back to work for me i like it when i get home so you see last year we had this discussion i see a lot of cereal which have cut out by the way but for me a can of black beans some diced tomatoes and diced red onion some fresh cilantro leaves squeeze a lemon or lime juice some olive oil fresh garlic and typically chipotle powder and then if i was really ambitious oak and diced avocado that that was like a meal at the end of the night for me i thought was really ambitious a frying egg and put it on there or i you know and depending on my my mood i may or not put a bunch of additional hot sauce on some special boot so there's a lot of depression the medical field is low depression the chef what is the chef industry the food and beverage food and beverage bets but the chefs are very different different from there are a unique breed we are we are very stubborn we were kind of glutton for punishment and in a way and we we subject ourselves to the day in day out you know it's not uncommon to go into a bar that a lot of places have industry night so on a night it's typically slow in restaurants like tuesday night when people can go out and or the after shift early and you get another restaurant that industry that they offer a discount typically on drinks and in appetizers the same night yeah and basically can pay for it tomorrow morning when we together but chasity sitting around not you look like crap what's going on how men were in the middle opening i just work like 85 hours and 85 mainly been over three years i just worked 110 97 into these bragging rights now and it's unfortunate because we don't need to subject ourselves to that we are control freaks because our names on the menu and when you get to see you cannot get to a certain level without a passion and dedication to serve that is uncommon in people we can't just probably the same in your field i'm absolutely sure it is no different because if the end of the shift in interest rock you so member account becomes a fraternity because every view close at 1030 no one leave there till 1130 everything's been cleaned up the first thing you're going to do is go to find the other watering hole that still open to see all can hang out to jog off the work the same time you want to go home and shower because you're wearing the close that smell like the onions that you know you're around all day and you have been eating well you been dipping croutons in the sour cream as you go through all all day long as you how did you know is going to tide you over all that's was going to complete your meal until it's time to go meet your friends out where you go hang out that night and those guys are serving you they're not inefficient till 3 am and you hang out till four it's just a vicious is so exhausting in the minute you know we morning this is a whole separate episode but sleep deprivation and what it does to your body and what makes your body craved and fatty stop yeah terry effort on top of all that the nurse working all day in the home yet so i might my big my three big pillars or gut health brain health and sleep if i can get that's what our member boxes all going to be about to be about protecting those three pillars your to become a better person all around i agree and the thing is look at the industries we make doctors work shifts me when i did residency we had no time constraint on hours on me so it became that martyr thing might really be 30 hours you get taken i had a really have been a i been up for no 36 hours straight i had 22 admits last night not sure it's exactly that the martyrdom of the now i look back on it legislates pilots that only fly so much because you don't want them fatigued everything becomes a badge of honor that's worthless and he almost feel bad about saying that you don't want to be here i'm too tired to work and you start thinking i can't say that next time mike doesn't taste right go that's all time and temperature yeah we ate it's it's a it is it is a vicious cycle because when she gets deep into your right you can't backtrack making you think you can't play you would feel or look weak either like you pulling your own weight sending in the hospital setting to about 30 seconds one close out of the bottom of this one so the next half-hour is going to be great little bit different we've got a quiz show you may not know about liii will now use one quiz show yard so we can talk about the similarities between the hospital and the restaurant environment that they both have their own language jargon between the two you may think you know you find out how well these two got an old car you can donate it whether it's running or not to the united breast cancer foundation and save a life they'll even come and pick it up for free the united breast cancer foundation has saved hundreds of women's lives through their free or low-cost breast screen exams but now they need your help the united breast cancer foundation wants to save more lives through early detection by offering women free or low-cost breast screening exams in donating your old car suv or truck whether it's running or not helps pay for them plus you get a charitable tax deduction help the united breast cancer foundation save lives by donating your old car suv or truck call now for free pickup 800-245-0823 800-245-0823 800-245-0823 call right now that number again is 800-245-0823 if you are trying to quit drinking or doing too many drugs listen to me you don't know me and will never meet i had a problem like you want i drank and used a party a little too much till he got out of control and almost ruined my life i realize i needed help to fix my problem before it totally destroyed me if you tried to fix your drinking and drug problem and you know you can't do it alone you need to call the national treatment advisors they'll immerse you into a 30 day program to replace your old habits with new habits and totally change your life and if you have ppo private health insurance the entire program may be covered fix your problem right now before it gets any worse get clean call now and learn more 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 okay we are now back for the last segment of episode three of get your project i married grigor here with our first guest chevron's our second guest chef patrick mosher and of course your host dr. kenneth brown yes and of course we we have your props here we have a brand new producer yet what's liquid some of this report is way look like this is trying to yield you want to pick up your own outright deal developed by your own host dear dr. kenneth brown go to love my tummy.com/spoon use money for a discount let my summary.com/booty we just heard how much portion of patrick has gone through in his life show some love use the coupon code so that his effort right now after doing all this gets paid off in the course go to kpmg health.com cbd with also a lot of information regarding not just order case for the whole family yes please leave this domain after hearing in order to get into some more right now but the restaurant industry is tough lots of lack of sleep and its that it is hard showing upfront to marie for producing so yeah so we have a first time producer today marie because chuck patrick is actually the producer of our show so he sitting on the other side of the booth and up we were doing okay great i would like to think this man additionally on the purple haze shell consumption oriented to literally no racks interviewed somebody right right now you don't think eric's erupting too much right now that sounds like john thank you i think back in a couple but maybe there well course marina we met the restaurant i was so yeah we did i was a bartender she was a waitress and so that's where that's where we hit it off and knew it was it was one of those late nights going to the bar that was open after this is the letters that were trying to some of the restaurant industry you to reload a mental hospital nice adjusting well shift patrick we are going to to make our way through a little bit of the similarities between hospital life and restaurant life here just a moment do we want to give thing else ugly void whilst you said you have anything any anecdotal fund stores are the order read can you rt anything up here that to your member of been a funny story well great relationship with our kitchen staff back and forth to me i was just there call guys great relationship that there was that day where the desk and eric are both having a terrible day hello sounds like a good story has some debt was so you'd said we are closing down at 1030 and at many things levering up so we were closing down and he didn't want to take on some of the plates of a large top that i brought back as i said them into the dish. he basically just saw the stack and pushed it right back towards not doing it and i was pretty ticked also i said yeah are we met at the back of the kitchen and i will he started exchanging blows with are there for us separate is but thankfully because of that fraternal instinct that you have working restaurant we met later that night and and basically numb the pain together away at the local jazz restaurant mother so yeah the only thing better than ellen i think i see i saw two two brothers have a knife fight and kitchenware so yeah we were then no luckily there is only one small gash and shoulder you my needle and thread shut up you fine you find a bike work you you can take a day off tomorrow no pay but you gotta work today sorry you had a great dinner restaurant choices come to mom there's so many the bad ones put them i you know we talked about the fatigue factor i iii just come up with this bourbon pecan pie recipe sounds delicious and i was get ready make the first big batch and was making 12 pies and i somehow in my haze of i let bob sleep deprived chase substitute salt for the sugar and does two things that doesn't give the liquid that you need and i'm secondly it just tasted really really crappy so yeah so there about 1212 pies and so i don't think you need that gas chromatograph to show them all different now i don't know how you gather at their number stories and if that happens all the time like ice was sabotage the right dose with your salt and sugar will put sugar in your salt women who do this to you like loki's blankets to back-and-forth i will say there was that there was a fun little game that we play at it are our michigan restaurant tonight in lubbock and it was the actually the original home of don pablo's is where he worked and oftentimes if you wanted to chlorella somebody was new working with us you would say hey they just need to table 12 and would be nothing but a completely raw egg on a bed of lettuce and a small mug and there was a lot of things i don't go you need to take is now on the course the table looking like what the hell you doing you like i saw those hoaxes are the best restaurants like getting misty allow still to steal air out of the walk-in refrigerator going over the trash bag and like basically gather up the air in a glass i let open and fill it up and take back and open out when and get another bag of stale air and take it out or only god you definitely do that or you whenever you closing down the back in the restaurant until the new guy hey we gotta make sure that the other the teapot doesn't rust all the hot water out you have to empty until he gets cold it never it never doesn't turn, hot melt on this as well it's not just the restaurant industry you are gliding in the medical field also sometimes like to guess were all just a funny little play little hoaxes like when somebody substitutes my lubricating jelly laundry colonoscopy with apricot facial scrub and i don't know we do not play those kind of never never we never messed with your food you have to say to people i've never seen on spit in his food when you send it back typically there i have always seem to be respectful he might be passed off but i've never seen a habit i think i made 1 Time Way back in the day dropped the steak on the floor brushed it off matron always look and ran into the cold water through back on the grill but i may have i i don't recall you probably put back on the grill and allow those bacteria now have crohn's prevention remember where the person to sterile we need some yeah gartner life i think i will i don't it was to me to admit well were needed to be set noting fish left and that steak anyway can i sent you an email basically i would say i want you to something that we can ever get a brutal bridge building here between restaurant and and hospital life here just a month you don't mind pulled any longer trying to this i pulled up i might want in the world is this so it appears to be a paragraph of a bunch of words put together this will probably make more sense to chef patrick no matter how paragraphs are bunch of words put together i don't really know that you got that touché george put together that are nonsensical okay so this is what archer set meaningful to read it out loud. oh man we had over 90 covers 12 tops a bunch of four tops tons of vips by nine we were really cruising totally slammed at already 86 striper and taking i was running the past when this huge pickup was happening we were doing that really swan yeah ruth soto was chanterelle is all a minute you know the pickup time is like 20 minutes i got this really green coat on sauté fired her a 4 x 4 x 3 half a dozen more on order but when we go to play cheese short two day orders so had to order fire two more on the fly she was totally in the weeds we were so weighted foods died on the past the rail was jammed up with dupes and salamanders stopped working no showed i really thought we might go down so how do you think things are going to ysl when i talked with yeah nice nice salamander yeah you ship prejudicing i know i don't want to leave you out have a little bit of jargon here from the hospital so as you can see continued there's a lot of words they didn't know lotto is now that you are applied here to play a quick little game of who can answer what the hell i'm talking so just i just described every thursday friday and saturday and 30 some years ago and i started getting this not be something the when we knew you could have you on the show a little glimpse throughout you dealer 86 in a restaurant means you said you cannot heard that that might be subs are around anymore i think it means stop it. it sold out so be a basically that the hot soft part of the of the jargon is sold out don't let anybody order anymore or sometime something like 86 guys a lot here yeah some leisure time balance yeah can easily get out of there so are you trying to get me to start using these terms with my patients i think we should use these terms are in in terms of anybody and just see how well they how will they handle it i have mr. so-and-so we have some bad news that The Tumors Spreading Basically Are Being 86.Organize 86 at 10 Rather Than Working for over 86 That's over That's It I like the Better the More Your to Be Just Fine with 86 and through My My My My Head Went to Dark Place You My Brain Is like Man to Edge 86 That Insurance Policy Couple Years Ago Bad News There like the First Throw to You since Were Talking about Bad News Is Going to Be Hospital Jargon Term on the Topic That's When You Get There Celestial Discharge Doc Is on the Roof Yeah Sort of Basically Social Discharge That Person Is Not Going to Make It They've Been Okay so You so Your Your Your Your the Teaching Hospital You Want to Be Groups of around so We Can Talk like the Opposite Side of the Chef Industry Would Be the Medical School Residency Fellowship You Know and so the Teaching Hospitals Are Components of Celestial Discharge When Somebody Passes on so Can What Would It Mean If Someone Needs to Drop or Fire To Drop or Fire Yeah I Need You to Drop at Next I Need You to Fire X When He Said I Would Say That Somebody Has To Start Cooking Some Nice Drop It in the Knees Instead of Yeah Gay and Japanese Are the Backbone for All You Want to Get into That but Japanese Restaurants Versus American Restaurants Behind-The-Scenes In a Japanese Restaurant Going to Become Comes at the End of the Shift in American Restaurant Light Is on How Constant It Was 25 Pages of Shame It's Funny Was What Was Great and I Know like That I Know Five Words Indicates When You Run the Kitchen Is a Chef For Them Are All the Effort In the Other One Is Please It's Pretty Ugly so Back to You Weekend It Syndrome Out Of the Hospital Weekend Syndrome Who Would Have Weakened Syndrome and What Does It Mean Weekend Syndrome Voted and Sunk into the Habit I Have an Idea Interpretation This Is This Is a Unique One Yeah We Can Syndrome I Doubt You Have One Question Is It Does Apply to a Person Is Employed in Hospital or Is This a Question or Could It Be If It Is at the Usually to the Document Technically Somebody Who Is Who Is Employed or Contracted by the Hospital To Okay Weekend Syndrome Doesn't Come in on Monday I Don't Is a Dimly I Would Save You so We Can Syndrome Us When You're Covering Your Partners on the Weekend and Really Just Try to Do Band-Aids on Stuff to Make Sure That Irby Doesn't Dog As It Used To Take Care the Patient Still Monday Has To Make Sense the Dog the Dog Is Obviously Caesar There Could Be Some Commitment on a Critical Decision to Be Made but Rather Have His Hands Clean by the Time Monday Comes around I Got a Little Weekend Syndrome I Go on in There to Do That I Think You'll Make It like When You Show up Your Vendor Covering the Partners in Your Running a Huge Service Just Want to Make Sure Do No Harm So We Can Syndrome Is a Special to Teaching Hospitals on Monday Morning When You're like Checking out like What Insured Order the Proverbial Enzymes and You Just like Because That Doesn't Exist and A Lot about Your Hi-Fi… Get out Can What Is It Mean When Somebody Hollered out All Day All Day All Day The Restaurant Supply Cruise Holler Is like You Say Logic You Who's Yelling to Who to Give an Example If on the Sauté Cook Is Risotto There's A Lot Of People Ordering It's It's How Many Orders in Total Do I Have To Prepare to Meet the Demands of All the Tickets That Are at the Right but Applicable You Could Say We Are Two Hours into Our Our Procedure What We Have Left and Someone Says We Have Eight Colonoscopies All Day We Have a Left Okay How Many How Many Orders Do You Need to Fulfill the Tickets There on the Board Right That's Exactly Right Oh That's Not Just What to Do Now That's All Dale from Beginning to End It Could Be 400 Tickets Appears Associate Patrick in the Hospital You're Visiting a Friend and You Hear Someone Holler out from the Nurses Station We Got a Code Brown 302 and Is Not a Co-Dr. Brown Is Central Stable from Yeah Code Brown in Room 302 Loose Bowel Syndrome Maybe Cleanup on Aisle Six Yeah It Would Be a Cleanup on Long Island Six Similar Thing Yeah so If Somebody Has a Unfortunate Accident for a Little Bit of Work It Is a Cobra There Are Various Codes in the Hospital Do Have Other Codes That You Can Quiz Him on No No Other Codes so Code Blues the One That's on All the Shows Code Blue Somebody's Donning This Code Green or Somebody Goes Crazy and Passionate Security to Show up Code Pink Baby Being Say: You Have a Really You Really Feel Deadlock That Unlocked at Code Pink in Effect Lock Hospital Gets Locked I Got to Code Pink for the Radio and Drag a Top Producer about Hank Brown Code Pink of the Company It's All It's Always Extreme Lockdown Yes I'll Have like Other Ones so It Was Called Brown Is a Tongue-In-Cheek Word Yes Obviously the Obvious Color Now the Only Reason I Got It Because We Take up like That Restaurant Treated So Back to You Now You Get a Pitch Claim Thinking Cap on What Happens If You Go into a Restaurant and You Were to Find a Bubble Dancer Bubble The Answer Yes the Bubble Dancer It Seemed to Make Sense Whenever We We Reveal the Answer to My Feels Super Ignorant to This Type Who Would Build Bubbles at the Dishwasher Oh a Bubble Dancer Asked Dishwasher Didn't Show up No That's Just What the Belt That's Got a Derogatory Term for What He Did Back There but Will Dance and the like Yeah and Then Presenting Scorch with Those You Now It Makes Us Want to Get Punched Yeah Love That Term If They Can Pray in the Crotch Every Time so If You Were to Come onto the Shift in the Hospital and Someone Says They You Get This Patient Doing This Get This Patient Doing This It over There and in the Same Room 302 Yeah Crump Yeah Crump Man That's It's Okay You Have No Clue on This Imagine This When I Say This Particular Patient a Turn for the Worse That's the Crumpets That I Will Not Ever Use That Term before That's Okay It's Not a Ton Naomi's Bubble Answer Once and He Came and Try to Kiss Me so I Left This Is One of Those Christos Words Words Words Funny Because You Can Find A Lot Of These Things but the Reality Is That I You That's When Somebody Takes a Turn for the Worse I Take It Personally and I Go What Did What Am I Doing Wrong What Did I Do Wrong How My Part of This How Do I Get This Person Out Of Just What He Knows Most of These Terms Actually Found Is to Validate from a Reader's Digest Article so I Mean I've Heard Most of Them Used in Context but Some of Them Even Dies I Am Another Weakness Is Yeah Yeah so It's Link Is There Is There Is Medical Jargon You'll Hear It on You All the Shows The People Watching Grey's Anatomy What Not like That but Just like Your Site People Typically Don't Spit on Food the Reality Is That Your Doctors Our Extremely Respect and Partly Involved and Totally Bald Ownership of It You Know Everyone That I Work with Bones That so It's Mostly Any Type of Medical Jargon Going on Is Usually Something Is Kind of Little Bit Light People Can If You Are in the Hospital I Am Sorry in Restaurant and You Heard Something Was Going to Be Cremated or to Kill What's Happening There Serving Live Octopus That Will Be Clubbed at the Table I Want You to Think Chuck Scott Style We Will Turn This Piece of Meat into Beef Jerky Chuck Scott Is Our CEO's That You like It Will Dawn I Just I Cringe Because I'm from Omaha My Dad Was a Butcher I like My Stuff Rare so It's Funny Because Were on the Opposite Spectrum That's Funny like a Blue like Real Hot Pan 45 Seconds Each Side: the Middle so There's a Funny Story Habit That I Was Working in San Diego This by Placing Court out on Island Called a POE's It Was on My Chart House and We Had a Guy Says Playback like Three Times and Mike Cited the Flight Took a New Flash Seared on the Grill and He Threw the Deep Fryer for about 11 Minutes Is Analogous to What You Get There Yeah I Try Screwed up I Couldn't Get Right So Ship Address You're Hanging on an ER And Then Suddenly Preston Spent A Lot Of Time in the Hospital This These Are Just Their Small Scenarios Were Actually Still the Spinning at Work but You Do Hear One Nurse Talking to Another in There, Laugh and Saying That One over There His Guide to Nothing but Straight Hundred Percent Fabian's What Are They Going Let's See Is That Something Somebody Who's Maybe Hypochondriac or It's Definitely an Acronym That Stands for Felt Awful but I'm Alright Now Syndrome to the Hospital Again Okay so so so Acronyms to Use Alonso When I Was Most of the Really Good Stories In Medicine Take Place When You're in Training Because You Have Time to Think about It and Then Get off Shift When You Talk about It They Become a Memory When You're Really Working Working to Know You Get A Lot Of Stuff to Do I Don't Remember I Think It Was Sleep It off So SIF Syndrome And I Was in San Antonio and There Was Just so Many Patients Had Patients Lined up in the Hallways on Every Room Full And I Was Assigned to You like These Urine I'm an Intern Little Is My First Month Of Residency from an Intern and You Just Assigned All These Rooms Remember This Distinctly I Can Accommodate Myself When I Should Say How Long Will This Was Blue so Many Years Ago It Was so Distinct Where You're Just like Picking up Charts Are like Here and You Know That the Charge Nurse Goes. Go Your Trip and I Look up at the Board and so Sleep It off So It's Somebody That Super Drunk Just Needs to Sleep It off and I Go over and It Happens to Be a The Homeless Man Who Commented He Was Not Feeling Good and I Wake Him up And I Look at Him He Looks at Me and He Got Totally Blown Pupil on One Side and Then Vomits on Me Immediately I Was I Just Got a Sleep It off Guy Had a Brain Had Been Minutes Later They Were Doing a Birth Hole Right down the Hallway Drill Lowry Releasing the Pressure So This You like It Said Sleep It off That Acronym Is Wrong to Go to People and Say What You Mean Little Things like That Really While That Happened Not to Read the Tickets Twice in the Restaurant That Has Magic It Bad Yeah Well Maybe It's a Bit off Building That to Happen More Often I Made 99% of the Time Is Hilariously Little Yeah That One Time Once Montes Wants to Remind Yourself Again What Is It Mean to Add to Use the Lowboy If You Work in the Kitchen Was a Need to Use the Lowboy That's When You Go to the Restroom and the Only Urinal Available Is the One That's for the Little Kids That's Really Really Close to Funny Explanation so That It Can Refrigeration Undercounter Refrigeration That Only There Definitely Is Okay So Who Would Be the Stream Team Patrick in the Hospital The Stream Team That's Gotta Be Yeah Urologists Nicely Done to Keep What I Keep Waiting Is It Still a Steady Stream I'm Okay It's Still a Steady Stream Okay That Was There It Is a Return for a Group of Urologist and Was Gag Holders so Funny Marie and I Were Laughing in the Day but the Ridiculous Names That Go along with Groups of Animals You and Others That the Congregation of Alligators And What Marie Do You Remember Any of the Others That Are on Their Gaggle of Geese Sick Congress of Something in the Okay If There's There's a Whole Bunch of Dad That Are Crazy Yeah I Know It but Yeah There Probably Is That Probably a Stream of Urologists If You If You Look at the Definition of All Those Things You Just Said Just a Bunch Bunch More Debris so There Is a Report Wary of Elegant I Want to Be There I Mean That's All Any of That Mean so You Can What Is It Mean If Someone Says They Julie White Said Table Clean the Tables I Would Think Is That They're Gonna Just Upload Direct You Don't Pull down Actually Whenever I Was at Apollo They Said That a Limitation on the Table but It Was the Same Meaning the Basic Image of a VIP or Somebody Is A Lot You Going to Come to Watch the Table He Means the 21 in the Alexa Type Oh so That Okay so What Would Be a VIP in the Restaurant Industry Well Depend on the Restaurant so Your Jacket It Could Be Someone Who Comes in Frequently Right and Span Tends to Wear High Dollar You Are Going I Saw a Ratatouille I Know Absolutely Man So It Really Is Funny Is Ratatouille Such Great – You Know I've Try to Think through the Way They Do in the Movie There's Just No Way to Do That There's Not Because He Can't None of It Can Be Cooked Together Has To Be Cooked All Separately and Then Stoop Together Right at the End of My Favorite Dishes While in China but While Were Talking about Food Yes What Is It Mean To Have a Chocolate Hostage Chocolate Half Way Will Distribute in My Field Also Visit Here This Is Your Field Maybe I'm Bridging the Gap. I Said, Some Is Constipated Is Exactly What It Means to Think Someone's Constipated so Is Being Held Hostage So Now My Mother Ran a Group Home Group Assisted Living Home In Arizona And Nevermind and There Is an Impact Why Legislators an Impacted Patient One Time How Would You They Needed Help with What Would You Describe a Chocolate Hostage in the Restaurant Industry I Do to Get Watch My Station I Got a Go Why Are You Doing Most of the past so Don't Order Any Food Because I Don't Know Do You Know What Adam and Eve on a Raft Is Now Skanky Is That You Know the This Is a Restaurant Turned the Restaurant to Adam and Eve on around Adam and Eve on a Raft and Ring I Did Nobody There Whenever We Put Together a List From EMS Ants to Top the Lab Man in the Manual a Couple Only Ones Left in the Restaurant Late at Night Sincerely Cool but Now I Make Sense That Sunday We We Can Say Adam and Eve on Here We We We Are Called Is 40 but Was Too Racy That It Was Spinning so Giddily That Believed That Many Valves at the Company That Yeah You Say Is a Little Spoon Relates to Forking but I Was Really Here and Now I Can't Tell a Dog Notably Big Spoon but He Was 657 Tom Zola Adam and Eve for You in Medicine No Know It's It's an Old Restaurant Adam and Eve on a Raft Adam and Eve on a Raft It's Two Eggs on Toast House Can Cure All That Was How They Would Be Culinary to Maybe That's Where They Came from Bulimia Must Be Otto I Thought Doubt the Bag Looked the Origin of That One up As I Love the Etymology of Words so Phrases Come from and History Of Words Well Honestly and Then Have To the Fast Fun Game Do You Have Anything Else for Me Only I Will Try and Redeem Myself after Losing the I Do Believe Anything for You I Got an Easy One with Me I Say I Need a Butterfly Net Steak You Just for Later in Half and Then Took It so the Welder Because It Looks like a Butterfly Because It's Attached on the Top and As Links so That Was the First Thing You Said When You Said the Little Thing about Chuck Scott Ordering Steak One of My Professors Would Do That and It Was This Russian Guy Was Awesome Literally He Would Go to Nice Restaurants and She Would So Just Cut Cricket You Think It Is Well Done and Cook Another 30 Minutes so in 10 Seconds Do You Know What Issue Is That She Would Be Somebody Who Could Make That Happen Not on What Issues She Was Known As a Really Really Bad Cook Not the Ringer You're Looking for Only Half a Minute Less Than Our Last Half-Hour Jeff Patrick Thank You so Much for Coming on a Project Is a You Been Doing Foreskin and He Goes on Words Now Just Shows Love You Love My Tommy.com/Spoony Put in That Code We Gotta Make Sure That Those Chef Patrick Does Not Go Back to Work in the Restaurant Industry Did Absolutely Not If You're Not Watching on Spring Really Should Check out Spoony.com Beautiful Lineup Filled with Great Shows Jim
so What You Really Think This Is the Only 24 Hour Take Anywhere Platforms Dedicated to Food and Fun Clear Spoony Husband and Wife Make It Right Connectivity Care Whenever You Needed Like Video Chatting with the Doctor Right from Your Phone So I Don't Need Stitches United Healthcare Plan Benefits May Vary Now Pronounce You Husband and Wife May Kiss the Bride Connecting to Care Whenever You Needed Like Video Chatting with a Doctor Right from Your Phone So I Don't Need Stitches Thank You Dr. United Healthcare Health Plan Benefits May Vary
Shawn Bryans, VP of operations at Green Tree Medical and Chief grower and cultivator for Okie Herb discusses the benefits of CBD, medical marijuana, the variety of customers from the elderly to PTSD veterans, the new laws and landscape in Oklahoma, and how "Bud Tenders" function to deliver great care to consumers.
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Nancy husband and wife may kiss the bride connectivity care whenever you need video chatting with the doctor right from your phone so I don't need stitches thank you Dr. United healthcare health plan benefits may vary fantastic second episode of the gut check project and we have our inaugural guess this is going to be a fantastic show on super excited about this I'm pretty pumped also so today we have this is episode number two of the gut check project brought to you by your host Dr. Kenneth Brown and well we really appreciate everyone but Joyce did you know we actually have feedback from our first show actually open content by love people I thought that you and I were just talking to each other the whole time as it turns out some people actually listening what you what you know beyond my mom beyond my wife your wife we actually had some of the people who watch that was really cool hate one of the things that we handle in terms of questions was can I take John Teal and do I need to continue taking probiotics or prebiotic's may want to dress like so there's lots confusion around these terms prebiotic probiotic all the prebiotic is on digestible food source that your bacterial breakdown so fiber is a prebiotic okay so the skins of vegetables and fruits are prebiotic's probiotics are the good bacteria that people want to take into replenish your micro bio the reality is when you're taking out trying to you you don't need to take a prebiotic or a probiotic in fact the molecules known as polyphenols are actually a form of a prebiotic they go to your: the bacteria will break it down into beneficial things so essentially and not to be too confusing but you're basically taking a form of a prebiotic by definition by taking out front feels no it's not necessary to take a pre-or probiotic if you feel better on the probiotic I say continue to take it if you do not feel better than you might want to hold off on that so if last week have your listener and you're curious about arch until you can learn more@lovemytummy.com/spooning that's love my tummy.com for discount use forward/spoony also just a reminder if you ever want to keep got catch up with Dr. Brown and what I was doing has a brand-new website called KB MD health.com so it is only a week old there might be a bug or two in there there's actually a probably a lot of bugs and there have changed and I encourage all the feedback if you don't like the language of going to change the wording is a couple pictures of myself that I would change but you know we have to do what we can do and get things up because that website is there to give information about things that we know that at least my patients are swimming towards us and asking questions about what you have all kinds of information on CBD on got health on sleep on brain protection on everything it just a platform so we want to get up there and also to get access to people to get high quality CBD to get access to upfront you and so on so yes there we encourage feedback hit me up tell me you're not a English major are you Meno English majors yeah me bad at language also so basically Eric and I made this website and there's probably some grammatical errors we would love we learned about it sooner than later I know what you're talking about but I do check out KB MD health.com because there is a lot there's got to be resourceful there's lots of research there is a store where you will find the brand-new KB MD CBD as well as trying to heal and will have other things added to the store as we put research behind yes recent research is one of the things I'm most excited about where you have a guest on today and were to be talking CBD in the cannabis industry and all of that supersmart guy Sean Brian's was just talking from outside not just I love historian you guys gotta stick with this show today because it can be super exciting but one of the things I want to do is I really want to do clinical research on my patients less early research I just want to track the results and were to be putting those kind of things first on the website as we await publication and then once we get published then will go and replace that but anybody go to that website is going to see the white papers first before while they're being submitted for publication way it works you submit it takes a few months this is just a way to get access to things much sooner much sooner last mention here a quick for a sponsor that we had for the show which is down weed is happening now with the medical director of Bridgestone and happens to be Dr. J Perry also a gastroenterologist at the top of the hour you probably heard if you're listening already mentioned ridges own and it was being rented by the late great Doc Thompson so I shout out to Doc Thompson again thanks so much for having us here the team chef Patrick Ron everyone couldn't be happier to now start our second episode of the gut check project on spoony radio so we we did not get pulled off the air last week which outcries and actually said you can come back and do another show I got another shirt is amazing so it's been a week before we jump into all the cool stuff to talk about today what you been up to man for a week it has been a week so last week my oldest son the whole family my youngest son the wife and I took tons of family down San Antonio we live in North Texas if you are familiar that's 5 Hours Dr. S. went and I saw my oldest son compete in the state basketball tournament they did well and dad and after that we it inquired when the whole thing so we decided to take off and enjoy some family time out in San Diego we do know I logged around couple hundred bucks I guess online scooters if you are looking for a way to enjoy an urban environment written lime scooter similar while you heard did you get a chance to jump into one of the Navy seal bug training techniques of water cold immersion we did decide not to do that after we put on a wetsuit and tried to serve tennis: water is not warm at all wetsuit is correct your wet your wet and cold and then you're still wet but we did serve it just got out of there soon become fully we went to do good for you let yourself or even wow I had an equally exotic experience I had to go to which I didn't have to I went to Wichita Falls Texas because my son had a tennis tournament there and my wife and daughter went down to Waco because she had a tennis tournament there which coincidentally shot out to her Carlos she double gold singles and I won the whole tournament love that my son Lucas and I in Wichita if you've ever been there Wendy very very windy candy yet and it was raining so we had tons of rain delays all the stuff I did bring my X.3 bar which you will be writing about this also but the X.3 bar is a portable exercise system developed by a PhD named John Jake wish and I had a long conversation with him not to long ago and he's done some great research showing how variable resistance and volatile bottom line is I sat in a hotel room worked out watch rainfall pendulum was probably as wet and cold as you yeah I without question down if you notice now the Wichita Falls in Texas actually is the region that varies the most from year to year in temperature fluctuation it has the biggest swing I believe throughout the entire state shock about the back me up on this by the time he gets in here but it literally has the biggest average temperature swing throughout the entire state that little region at their out of the Red River and – describe a little bit about what the X.3 bar looks like because if you had never seen this thing is really cool it's very portable it's equipped with bands but has has a resistance motion that you know if you're just looking anything that looks weird when he tried it will wear your ass down since in this actually Dr. Jake which gave me a code so that our listeners can execute a discount on ice just when you go you get it go to X.3 bar.com and then put in code KB MD and you get a nice discount there the other science is pretty interesting I'm mobile hacking this is like one of those mobile acts that you can do show is portable you know there's no excuses for not working out take about 10 minutes and you're done so you break a sweat you will think that you won't but you will break a sweat in fact if you go to the our Instagram at KPMG health is no need to do the resident we need to do this because you can see the big man Eric over here is not doing some curls with the X.3 bar actually got several videos of the X.3 bars so about someone else's biceps to do that she actually had to stop mid workout because he was getting too big yeah knows what about changes wardrobe so that would build fitness shared real quick any other news or notes of any to talk about for the gut check project coming up I can't think anything big of them have our first guest this week but I know that you went to where he works while Europe and Wichita Falls yeah that's right so coincidentally and we Artie had him booked for this I went up Wichita Falls right next to the border of Oklahoma Oklahoma just recently became a I'm to say the word wrong but medical cannabis legal state yes is that term that made Sean to clarify we John. His unit tells all about about what goes on yes I went up there and took a look in our CBD product is in that is in that store it was really cool to see all the hard work that we've done to educate and get things moving and so if you get a chance Oklahoma is one of the new states to start the medical marijuana interestingly enough that I do find it kind perplexing that taxes being such a large state watches the bordering states open up a casino or open up the opportunity for medical delivery cannabis or CBD and essentially date it's it's Texas citizens that more or less come support that industry and I'm sure this will be the same until Texas decides to participate I am very familiar with that because I'm from Nebraska originally were that's exactly what's going on in Colorado once I won the other right I would as the casinos Colorado courses the cannabis industry in Nebraska has chosen to be very strict on that so not surprising to me that a state can have neighboring states with little bit more liberal or differing views sure now I understand well I believe listeners will be going to try to start doing is giving over the format in our first hour so it this point time were going to talk about health news as a relates to the gut check project in KPMG health and you can learn firsthand why I always like talking to Dr. Brown in terms of how he keeps up with what's the latest trends and the latest relevant news in health so this last week and we got a little bit of experience with what were going to talk about but it just so happens there's a lot of research into the fasting mimicking diet and what it can do for you and I'm stopping that you can take over so super interesting a study was published just last week about the fasting mimicking.now with the fasting mimicking diet is is this is developed by a fantastic researcher named vulture long ago and what you do is he figured on animals that if you give a caloric restriction meaning your to take 1000 cal a first end and work your way down to about 10 to about 10% of your normal calories in a very specific ratio of fats proteins and carbs that you can trick your body into believing that it's in a fast and what that does in humans he showed that after five days you turn on your stem cells it actually gets your old selves sick and old cells to just go away called autophagy and so if you can think of it this way your body says okay these cells that are starting to show signs of possible early cancer things like that the body recognizes that goes you go away in working to start new cells so that's the basis of the fasting mimicking diet this was developed and a company called L Neutra has developed a product called prologue to sort of make it really simple for you to have the exact ratio that's have prolonged PR OL ON PROLON so vulture has been doing tons of research and you he's I follow his words Rhonda Patrick follows work through a lot of other conferences he's always going to longevity conferences and giving lectures this time something very near and dear to my heart he just published so out of the University of Southern California USC this article out of cell reports the fasting mimicking diet modulates microbiota and promotes intestinal regeneration to reduce inflammatory bowel disease pathology very long big Boring to title but here's what supercool is basically he took mice he put them on the fasting mimicking diet end date induced Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis so inflammatory bowel disease and then he showed that these mice had decreased intestinal inflammation increased intestinal stem cells they actually reverse the disease and something else is really cool is that they improved the micro biome composition and then he actually showed that it improved leaky gut or intestinal permeability something about this moment we have a disease or chronic disease inflammatory bowel disease if you don't know anybody who has as its brutal this is what I do with my practice all the time but by putting somebody on a fasting mimicking diet you can actually reverse this then he compared that group to a water only fast this is amazing the water only fast did not do nearly as well this is rising I would not have thought that I was completely blown away because I've always I've done I did three fast this year I did 35 day fast the first one was the prolonged one I did a prolonged fast and I could totally tell when those stencils kicked in I just had a boost of energy like you would not believe next when I did I tried to can't hack the prolonged pasture and try to do it using the foods I bought and try to mimic it I did not quite get that boost of energy and then my third fast was a water only fast for five days and once again I did not get that I just woke up at like 1 AM to take on the world and so I've actually contacted the CEO of L Nutro that were extra friends with Joe on Tuesday and him I talked to said yeah because that's the amazing thing we don't people don't realize it the faster mimicking diet is actually based off of true science and animals vaulter did this all he worked out the exact ratio how many days and then after you do this you have to repeat so in this particular group we had two groups of mice one did water only and that group did not do as well the fasting mimicking group had increased the fiddle bacteria and lactobacilli which have been shown to improve so you asked me the beginning of the show what about prebiotic and probiotic I well guess what if you do a fasting. Then your body will figure out what bacteria should proliferate more when we eat it's actually an inflammatory process so every time you eat electrically little bit of inflammation in the gut by giving it a break and by doing the fasting mimicking diet your not only given your get a break but your body goes okay we can get rid of old dying cells get rid of precancerous cells and working to start brand-new ones and is proven it with these mice what is so fascinating to me is that the faster mimicking diet is so much easier than the water only diet I can vouch for that then we had which at our whole company do it and at all trying to I think we have that on our on a page would a blogger yeah I think it's right at a year ago is that's correct and I can I can say the water fast it's not the worst thing ever but it's more difficult the whenever your body decides you need to eat and he had the influx I believe it's called a Rex and it makes you think okay your ravenous and you need to eat and you have a burst of energy simply to go out and find food and I was actually somewhat envious of those who had done the pole on is the control because the and including you that point time did not have the same drive to go out and just eat yeah you are fasting but at the same time your body seem to be tolerating all the better yeah what about fasting I actually after this article got published I realize another article just really got published with a look at the different fasting types in religion and we have Ramadan we've got Jan to pour a lot of similarities to similar with the Daniel fast we have lent which I'm Catholic but not delivered probably should be fasting in a more serious way here that but it's just interesting that the fasting is could be one of the easiest life hacks ever it's amazing that so many religions had that been are are based in insomuch a agent tradition that there are lots of things between religions that actually are incredibly similar and it also comes down to asking so the reason why this such a big deal is because I have my Crohn's and colitis patients and if you do have girls or colitis or annoying but it does please share this so that we can don't help everybody with this because I think a lot of doctors are talking of fasting and so I think my little hatch here who's going to be the fasting mimicking diet plus trying to heal for the polyphenol effect and we also know that he gets rid of the bad bacteria that's growing rich and big plus CBD which attenuates your immune system right could be the magic thing so I called Joe the CEO of Elder Troy and we got talking about this and he goes I want to come down to do the show let's talk and I'm like yes let's do this this is going be fantastic so we can have a whole episode dedicated to the faster mimicking diet and the science of it and you know how people can realize that it really kind of resets and it's an antiaging thing also so you can do from home this is it something it's going to require someone to go out and get a prescription only to prescription to do a fasting and a condign somebody's have to schedule a time to do it and then commit to it and then I would imagine you being a guest urologist to be C70 make those kinds of improvements that's really all you want is the best for your patient and if they can handle that on their own and escape disease it's a win for everyone as natural natural to do it so being vultures studies it's really exciting because what he showed is it is antiaging it is anti-inflammatory and was really fun is that he also so that you have to re-feed so once you do that and you you have the discipline to do those five days of decreased cowgirl of calories and using the fast mimicking diet when you start re-feeding it is awesome because and he also show that if you do it three times in a year that is equivalent to doing ketogenic diet year-round so now that he showed that in different animal models also so for those who at their key billing manager if you struggling as many who don't struggle but if you are struggling maybe this is not turned the computer I have done it and I have fallen off of it and got back on and fallen off it's and get it's not the hot again not the hardest thing ever but the discipline to stay there if you have a family I'm anything you cook for kids then that's not what they want to do is difficult Joe Rogan had Dr. Addie on how dark a joke and I prepare the both of them to deliver talk about the how they just can't rule their diets by making humor and jelly sandwiches for the kids to cut off the crust and Joe just would just eat the crust off the course so I did that also so every time I done Quito I would I would lapse without trying to lapse I would end up doing dirty Quito church where I would build despite outspent direct all is much as I want and then later be like well sure I can have this bowl of rice yeah what you know it with but with Quito if I member correctly you are talking about lab results even on yourself that where Ed there is advantages to doing keto but if you end up doing like he called a dirty keto you might actually failure your desired results off because your body has been moved to doing fats and you've basically thrown in this carbohydrate in talk about that quick so I didn't I like to do so one of my problems in working probably get into that little bit with Sean when he comes on when I do something I go all way way so I'll try it's all just go Quito and then over period of time I didn't realize I was that I drew I'd listen to a bent wrinkle podcast like oh I need to have lentils now is or whatever you know you name it and I totally forget that that's going on so my functional medicine doctor his name is Kevin Wilson here in town and you know he practices antiaging functional medicine she took my blood and called me up his like what have you been doing and course what we were doing is messing with my diet that I'm experimenting with different supplements because were trying to develop more products right and I'm not really paying attention that I'm doing everything at once at the same time sure and all of a sudden he just like your heard labs are messed up buddy commitments and talking alike is what you been doing I was like you have enough time I been doing it all. I'm just everything that it makes it difficult to find out but that's for sure but I will say it every single thing that you have recommended to patient for long as I've known you you've tried it on yourself first I have 100% done that so I have always done it that this is this is not new I remember being a medical student and I was in Lexington Nebraska running the ER at night so I was like the only person awake in Lexington Nebraska at the time and I decided to teach myself how to do an IV on myself which is hard especially first time so let's see I've tried to stick an NG tube down myself that didn't work so well I live but I've done an art I did an arterial line on myself one time that's ridiculous yeah that's not don't don't do that don't do any of this is a matter if I don't do any but I'm just saying that I will do it so that you don't have to share pain of an arterial line is about tenfold of any intravenous line I had left there was a comment on my YouTube channel yesterday where you I posted my colonoscopy online yeah over on YouTube don't do that either and I was awake but it's hilarious actually texted the text this morning with this Abby somebody in the UK said and you'll notice that nobody cares about your but were all looking to screen his writings always get nervous that I don't you see my butt and she pointed out the second he said that Abby looked at my butt and I I've never noticed that so colonoscopy everything so if I'm not you… Come down with everything I really would never I want to try things on myself then I do a case series with patients and then I have data to tell people I was a look this will happen to me this is this group of 20 people over here that were working with athletic Crohn's and colitis communities so near and dear to my heart because I'm using a lot of different things I've seen success with them sure and don't forget the reason why we are doing a check project is to talk about caving the health which was born out of the idea of taking what you find out in the clinic are you going from anecdotal to applied science and to find out how we can actually help people absolutely and so this is cool were coming down to the I guess the bottom of the hours and the rate of the Patrick is that what you say bottom of the hour the bottom of the hour I'm trying to give 30 seconds but apparently I don't how to make a three and is okay since I can call the fountain outside 20 feet away hate that Sean Brian first at whatever you guys 11 I wish you could go some facial is take the pain out of ordering your diabetic testing supplies with diet Thrive diatribe ships the testing supplies you need directly to you when you need them best of all with plan starting as low as eight dollars a month diatribe is probably going to cost you less than what you're paying today diatribe is so convinced that you love their service they're offering your first month of supplies free simply type the Kodak DOC and checkout diet Thrive.com 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in your body produces it in the Mediterranean diet that when taken concentrated amounts it will actually make you feel fuller and boost your metabolism I lost about 10 pounds so far is immune amazing ballet school company said we can take this to market to make this great product will help you it's called grid you zone our IDU zone.com our IDU zone.com Brad's work that were comrades work for me countless other people go to read you zone.com and try today you're gonna love it read you zone.com remember that our IDU zone.com okay we're back back to the second half hour of get check project episode number two and now we are joined with our first ever guessed this is Sean Bryant Sean Salo yeah you guys doing today doing well so when Eric and I would talk about our first guest I just sent out I don't care what we talk about but I want somebody with a beard yeah I started this in eighth grade just just just fill in the patch exactly yeah when I turned 30 I look just like there some very proud of my beard for this is Sean Bryant is VP of operations at Greentree medical and you are headed the cultivation division also known as Ogier and Greentree medical and no gear was located in Oklahoma just north of Bert Burnett across the Red River Craig yes sir and you also have a on-site medical dispensary called alternative medicine great yes we do alright well tell us a little bit about what goes on yeah I think it's as one of the coolest things is your background I personally am so intrigued by that so I would like you to stop in the beginning okay well I grew up in agricultural family my parents had big textbased company in Paris Texas and so not really didn't know what I wanted to do when I graduated high school but I had a passion for pharmacy in biology so I got a Texas Tech University and I majored in pharmacy there which was the biology program then I change my major switched over to agriculture fell in love with the horticulture and and I did a lot of research at East Texas State University and Texas A&M commerce on the cotton plant graduated then I became a bag teacher built greenhouses taught kids how to grow went straight into administration became a principal did that for 20 years and love working with people so when my son graduated high school and my daughter she's a but to be a junior it Texas state and that's when I was like you know what I'll I am ready to chase my passion so Oklahoma June 26 they passed their full medical cannabis program and my wife and I were celebrating our 25th anniversary in Arkansas and we talked about 10 miles that day and I was tired she was in bed in the cabin no TV in I just typed up a quick Craigslist ad and I found three guys that were had little to no knowledge of cannabis and how we can use that in the medical field and we made a great connection and I started working with them and that's where I am right now that's awesome so I've known you for quite some time for disclosure my wife hot for you you are the first one the harder when she was a math teacher so I seen Sean is a principal I've seen him as an assistant superintendent of the school district that was down in Texas and I've seen you much like you can whenever Sean decides to do something a Zollo a.m. date from welding to out sing the guards that you value had outback from your house all the vegetables you raise chickens how did you decide that there was a need to go you told me the cell years ago there is a need for people to be able to explore the real practical application yet far beyond the psychoactive aspects of cannabis there are people out there that have a need how you decide that this is a way did you make it happen you know it really I'm researching cannabis and I'm learning about it and I'm sharing this with other people and getting into dialogue with them and these people people that I worked with people that I Matt in a prohibition state of Texas they or one of their family members had a dire need and we started discussing know-how cannabis could help them with a medical issue and so I kind of took on the position of a caregiver by being able to share information that that I gained from from research and keep in mind you know now Dr. Brown can do research and in the public but before it was something that we would just do you know talking to our friends will how did this work with you what were the facts doing a how did you feel that this you know work with this particular ailment but now were able to discuss more freely so you know that that's kind of how I Mr. quick question so you and your scientist by nature I mean with a background in pharmacology and then horticulture and then you are an educator so that your primary start of your foundation is in science then education then you get into this industry with her so much misinformation Howdy how did you approach that were you realize it's up to him you know it's almost like your moral obligation to try and get through all the clutter because that is your back on the minutes if somebody looked at you and said all I could totally see him in the cannabis industry but they didn't realize that you were a principal or rot yet just researching and educating people you know in our dispensary right now when you have a patient come in they don't know what to ask for date they they may think I need this strong marijuana that's got 30% THC but but what we do is we work with them and and let them know that that is not always the answer but you say what you say why are there instead starting check that by now some had a question about medicine and if the physician recommended to them and they don't have time to get those answers that they may have the questions outside face and said they'll go to a pharmacist and then asked the question they cannot take this with this this is just given to me is that this style of y'all that you basically interacting with people and they come in your trying to help steer them toward something that would work yeah so like the way our medical program works in Oklahoma basically you communicate with your physician hey I would like to try medical cannabis as an alternative or with your method of treatment that were currently doing and the doctor would write you basically it's not a prescription for cannabis but it's it's an okay that you can get your medical card and then you come to the dispensary and that is where we want to work with you know the patient's to find out what part of their system is is out of balance and what we need to do to help them get out get back into balance is there a term for that person Soto would like you said pharmacist sure if I go to Colorado was that since little bit more bold is the return when I walked in I need to speak with the well a lot of people call them bartenders that term came about you know right when medical and recreation and they tended the buds that were in the jars and and no new a little bit about each particular product that was in the jar sure now caregivers are though we don't act as the caregiver for that individual patient we are caregivers and so we are providing you know data and information to the patient and let them make their decision and I all white because a lot of times a patient will come in and you know asked that will what will this do if I'm taking Flexeril or if I'm taking hydrocodone or if I'm taking antibiotic you know I always suggest tell your doctor and and let me take you guys this is a trick here it's it's really neat so you go to the doctor with the stomachache normally you go and you visit with the nurse for 10 minutes takes your pulse your blood pressure then the doctor comes in and you know you spend 10 minutes maybe 15 depending on your situation or if you need a rectal in my case abstractly and that's when I stay 30s but know if you if you bring up the topic of CBD bring up the topic of the cannabinoids and tell that to your doctor say hey I'm I've been doing some research here let me take that Dr. is going to sit there for I may not had an hour conversation and the doctor has 10 patients lining up outside waiting to see him or her and he spending his time with me because he is craving this information sure he were sent from a not want to know what he knows I want to bounce ideas you know off of him and and see how I can battle better either handle my own situations or with other patients that I'm dealing with what I would say though even here in Texas where it's not legal yet because you know that but I see almost daily it seems like the openness is is there people willing to discuss something that maybe even just three years ago what going into depth on do you do you find that depositions in Oklahoma are starting to become more embracing now that it's it's legal for them to have this as an avenue yeah most definitely there was a little bit of fear in the very beginning with with doctors they thought that they would be labeled as the cannabis doctor or the lack some of them are the opioid doctor you know which doctor you could go to to get you know drugs like that can and so they there there were some that were reluctant to to even embrace that idea you know it if you if if you're discussing your health with your doctor and you know they do not embrace cannabis in my opinion I would I would want to second I would want to second opinion I'd want to talk to to another doctor what he authors like to chemically so your gastro neurologist here in Texas licensed here and I saw you specifically decide there has to be there has to be something behind the science of the CBD so comparing what Sean's talking about what a physician would have to do to to move into this movement where it's not legal what allowed you to be able to open up and say I want to find out more for the benefit of my patients so we touch on this last week Sean I just I had no knowledge the Endo cannabinoid system I don't alter CBD marijuana I was so whenever somebody is ignorant to it I don't judge at all because I just recently started learning all of this and what change my mind was I went to a conference and I bought a case very expensive CBD at retail price now I'm angry at the company but whatever should be a discount but I gave away my patients and I just waited and when almost all of them came back that I need more that's when I knew that okay there's something to this then since that over the last three years all I've been doing is looking at the science of this and of course there's not enough of research in the United States because of these different regulations and stuff but I'm seeing clinical evidence was why get so excited when we sit here talking I'm I'm thinking when you said much like the pharmacist right dear old Seinfeld episode where it I can't member who was but basically the doctor prescribed something to go to the pharmacy the pharmacist goes I wouldn't do that you do change the spelling of who had more power the doctor the pharmacist I say us three do a little YouTube skipper I'm the Endo Kanab and all adjust I hear the bartender to be the patient, recommend a certain strain and guilt for what I would do that would be a playoff of that but that really is kind words that's where the science is going with this that's what's so exciting when if a patient comes in so I went and visited your store this weekend to right next to Wichita Falls where was and Steve there was told he goes you know what's amazing is the people walking 20-year-old saying only get sweet you know old people with chains and their struggling and there like I'm the real goes here's what peers or to do for you this is awesome and video so when I realize I'm making this what Steve told me girls I realize I'm now making a difference and people's health goes I feel what you probably would and the medicine for which is to change people's lives exactly and and were surrounded by some huge military bases in Wichita Falls and in Lawton and a lot of our customers they they do not by the cannabis that contains THC they preferred the cannabis that contains CBD the high percentage of CBD and little to 0% THC you know with CBD it is it is new to me also as far is it the benefits it is huge very huge you mentioned the Endo cannabinoids system and you know I've kind of in my mind broke the broke medical patients down into into three different categories ABC a being where I want to feed my Indo cannabinoids system I'm healthy I feel good I work out I walk so, preventative it's it's kind of a preventative and then be moving into a patient that that has an element of whether it's a backache or or a inflammatory science laboratory exactly and then all the way up to our need of severe cancer and the end things where you're you're really going to have to to wage a major war with with CBD but yet that our patients that come into our facility even though you could command if you got your medical card I can sell you 3 ounces of gorilla glue which is a cannabis strain I haven't done that I have not I have an 82-year-old man that pulls up and he will buy CBD flower which is it CBD but cannabis contain CBD and THC this strain of cannabis contains 16% CBD and like .3% THC and that's what this guy buys an and loves it he he could buy no THC but the CBD is making different table does make a huge difference Steve our manager and Bud tender you know I asked him I should tell me what you think because he said cannabis user and he he picked up this bottle and he said I take it what it does for me he said in the evening I'll take a eyedropper input under my tongue and hold it my mouth for for five minutes and then I'll swallow it swallows it he digested he goes to bed he said that when he wakes up in the morning that his whole body just feels rejuvenated pop truck got up out of bed he's he's ready to go take on the day that's what CBD does in your neuromuscular system it it if you're already in that number one zone where you're just maintaining it it helps keep a you say homeostasishomeostasis it just keeps a nice even level balance at our level in your in your body and that way you you feel great when you wake up and and then other systems will start to fall into place like I want to get into it also is a move to the show is really heavy for another hour but there there are differences in CBD and when you get it and was labeled a CPD exactly and before forget X1 ass one thing you said that you are surrounded by military bases yes are these are the servicemen coming in getting good grief yes most definitely an and you know when youth historically you know a lot of our servicemen you know they coming with PTSD and and you think of PTSD as we know from guys that the comeback promote a war-torn country and Anna and they've seen some crazy stuff and and they're trying to deal with that and that is that is very true but how huge our military is there there are things that have happened in the military it could be just having a car wreck you know that is traumatizing to you while your own active duty and and so these guys you know they're there looking for ways to to deal with you know PTSD and emotional issues so one of the things we talked about that out my goal would be this you guys beating the people that are selling CBD and selling other marijuana products you can't make any disease claims what I want to do is get research so you can have published articles 1 of the things Dr. Col. Philip Blair is also a doctor of is the medical director at Alexa and also our CBD is powered by licks and always the medical director there he actually published a case series with CBD and its effect on PTSD is a full bird colonel that realize the benefits of CBD and is now working for CBD company and still seeing patients and collecting data and so were to bring him down and he's he's in a come on in the next month yeah what I really want to do it so he so knowledgeable about that and is also knowledge about the other thing that unfortunate happens in war which is traumatic brain injury and he's actually published something on TV guys and we were talking about possibly setting up a CME meeting so doctors need certain minor credits at my hospital door trauma surgeons because I really believe that a protocol of doing high dose DHA plus CBD at the first impact of any type of dramatic brain injury recent article just got published route showed that unfortunately they did autopsies on the boys that were 16 to 19 that had played football but it had shown in these they were there were unfortunately killed from other circumstances but they they are now looking at the brains looking for CTE and are already showing signs of CTE from just high school right so we know that this TBI thing is huge and I just love it that we have like a full bird colonel who is a doctor willing to embrace it you're talking about it surrounded by military bases it's a perfect marriage is a like-minded think is this essentially what you talk about Sean whenever your wanting to help he would've come to you for that help you want to give guidance that you have it's not just anecdotal I think this'll work this is it's it's this works for this ailment we want to help you just like you said you're not selling the gorilla glue to somebody just because it's profitable to you you want to got into something's gonna make him feel better that's the whole purpose right exactly and you know back on the Indo cannabinoids system the way this the CBD works it just kind of columns some of these receptors I guess it it it if if there's something that for instance on PTSD my wife was attacked by a dog about two years ago we were done in San Marcus best in our daughter and a big bull mastiff Jehovah God are yet Torah but Karen carries on a baking sheet for so it's not her fault I was a bacon on me know if done nervously if you're baking carrier don't want grandson Mark yeah well now you know she has a phobia of just dogs but there are times that I look at her whenever somebody if were in Denton walking around where it's a dog friendly town in here comes this guy with his tiger stripe pit bull that's a sweet dog she kinda moves next to me in and she is having some anxiety and CBD is a product that really does help with that and if if if we know that were going to go to Denton she'll consume some CBD and that will you know help help your wife as long as I know you and Karen is never been a skittish or anxious person and I remember that incident quite vividly and you and you're right I arrived I've heard her comment that it's unfortunate for her that that now is something that's a blemish on an experience but I've also heard her comment that Seabees actually helped her not have is anxious. Whenever we meet chal for dinner out then there are yeah and I and you know the Indo cannabinoids system goes all the way down to think 600 million years ago you know it was in little squids and and sea creatures and and still is in most of the animals today and dogs you know there are a lot of people that will buy this product CBD do not give your animals THC please don't but CBD does help with skin conditions with animals with anxiety with animals one of the number one top sellers in Colorado right now are these pet products dog biscuits yeah I see this all the time of my patients they will deftly spend the money to treat her pants and not uncommonly will not have the money for their own medicines right but they will make sure that the pets are the words on my PTSD I'm looking at all the articles were going to be publishing here soon we've got autism and CBD we got CBD and IBD we got a full review of the end of cannabinoid system working to do PTSD and CBD in these blogs are all about science with references so that you can just hand them to people go oh here's this you look at were not making a claim but you can do your own homework just like you did were you felt that moral obligation to get out there and be a caregiver now you are actually going to have to educate in a way without making claims in my opinion is as a doctor the best way to do it and as an educator is to give references exact this is not my opinion this is just based on these this whole process to bring up Dr. Blair's name again that's actually one of his biggest calls is how do I end up taking my research and make it more applicable to the VA and to the basis because these are the gentlemen who are fighting for our country abutting a lot of the line and often times and they go to that system that machine the options are limited theirs is not it is obviously not of counseling the talk button and in the news today but oftentimes it's just to the prescriptive therapies and not to CBD that actually could be making a difference one yeah absolutely I was just talking to him we were I have a friend in Rich Hagedorn back in Omaha he's a retired 30 years in the military and him and a group of guys have started a alcohol company called soldier volley liquor and we would talk about that how they give back to the servicemen and I'm like when we got have done show we'll talk about this I think the veterans are one of our biggest populations that we can really help and I didn't even realize that you're surrounded by military bases where they are they are seeking you out exactly right yeah and and and were therefore we we want to help on the the side effects are just zero that I've seen with using CBD and compared to what they have received from the VA hospitals that cause horrible horrible side effects in these guys they they realize that they're there saying that their spouses are saying that and so they're looking for you know some some treatment that will help them mean everything were talking about comes down to inflammation PTSD information is hyper firing of nerves inflammatory bowel disease the fast mimicking diet that help these mice that is an autoimmune issue what I really would like to do this next part of the shows let's geek out I mean you got a background we can get into the end of cannabinoid system let's clear up some of the confusion let's talk about the other things full-spectrum terpenes blob about the sound sciences but let's let's bring back to level so that when someone walks in your store they listen to this or you can recommend them to listen to it there you know what they're getting just a resale because we are reaching the top of our or just a moment but this is Sean Brian's he is the vice president of operations for alternative medicine newly opened here in Oklahoma and as any other job websites yet we do have on our Instagram is Okie okay I_earth and we also have alternative medicine okay to grant alternative medicine okay on Instagram will see here in just a moment for the next hour also it's funny shows on-demand at spoony.this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun career spoony this hour from Townhall.com, editors hope you have at least some information from the black boxes of the doomed Ethiopian jetliner by days end those devices now being analyzed by experts in France here the US FAA acting administrator Daniel Elwell says his agency had to investigate for ordering all 737 Max jetliners grounded it is in our minds now link that is close enough to ground airplanes he was on NBC's today show a former Texas congressman joins a growing field of Democrats vying for the parties 2020 presidential nomination Democrat Betty O'Rourke became a political sensation during his 2018 bid to unseat Texas Sen. Ted Cruz find ourselves by who or what we are getting sore afraid he lost by about 3% but was immediately mentioned for higher office Texas political analyst Jay Iris is more than 20 other Democrats are eyeing the White House works already mobilized younger voters and raised to record money with alive and gritty social media presence of work spends three days now campaigning in Iowa I'm Jackie Quinn as the British Parliament launches into its latest fracture debate president from promising enhanced trade with the UK if and when it leaves the European Union as the UK struggles with bricks at the president is holding out the promise of negotiating a large-scale trade deal with the United Kingdom he tweets the potential is unlimited it's not the first time that Mr. Trump has suggested this last month he told reporters that the US is going to be increasing its trade with the UK very substantially as time goes by White House correspondent Greg Clarkson Wall streets the Dow is down about 24 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whatever all it's horrible hey that's Doc Townsend and Brad Staggs to tell you about a different way to shed those pounds this is brand-new technically been around for a couple years or so it was based on research from the University of California that said there is a molecule called OEA that's found naturally in your body produces it in the Mediterranean diet that when taken concentrated amounts it will actually make you feel fuller and boost your metabolism I lost about 10 pounds so far is a mere amazing Valley school company said we can take this to market to make this great product will help you it's called would you zone our IDU zone.com are IDUs zone.com Brad's work does work for Brad's work for me countless other people go to read you zone.com and try today you're going to love it read you zone.com remember that our IDU zone.com hello and now we're going to start our number two episode number two we are still joined here by Sean Ryan of alternative medicine vis-à-vis the operations of that and that will clear and just a quick reminder start of second hour if you are interested in picking up your own are trying to heal just go to love my tummy.com/spoony use discount code spooning for some savings for yourself and then of course if you want to check out KB MD health CVD you can also go to KB MD okay BMD health.com or maybe somewhere else you go extra you could come over to Oklahoma and pick up some KB CBD oil when we saw this product in our store when when Eric and I met I immediately fell in love and and the first thing that that jumped out at me was you know having Dr. Brown's name on the bottle so many of our patients that command our dispensary that's the first thing that they asked is not what a doctor what a doctor recommend this what is what would end in a lifetime just kind of funny they say what would my doctor say about me using this and that's when I'm likable don't talk to your doctor tell your doctor what you want to do ask your doctor but this particular product that's backed up with with research and an extensive studies we we wanted to be a part of this we wanted this on our shelves the the other thing that that really jumped out at me is how this product was made how it was manufactured how they did the extraction process y'all use a process called supercritical CO2 extraction so cannabinoids and that are on the Kent cannabis plant they are oil soluble and they are alcohol soluble and so historically they would use some nasty chemicals like butane and propane and they would blast that gas which in a liquid form through through the cannabis extract the the all of the cannabinoids and then try to remove some of the petroleum products from that crude oil and in California they do a hunt of testing on that and California is not happy with the trace petroleum products that are still in the considered a contaminant behind it is a contaminant and some of the extraction method they actually feel that that is the containment sure can be yes alcohol so another way to extract from a cannabis plant you can take and back in the day they use things like acetone in isopropyl alcohol's and and some alcohols that that work food grade like Everclear for instance hundred 90 proof Everclear that can be used to extract cannabinoids from my cannabis plant and and do a full CBD extraction now they tried to evaporate that alcohol that that's also an end they can't sure he can't get all it all out yeah I have taken not this product but I've taken other CBD tinctures that staying real bad under my tongue some people like that staying Carlock taking of shot of vodka over you know some type of alcohol drink for me I do not consume alcohol I find it not not always II use to like alcohol but I I don't like it anymore and when I'm treating a patient I don't want to recommend a CBD tincture that has alcohol in it or other nasties in it I want to recommend a clean extracted product that use supercritical CO2 let me answer the question have you seen certain products that said possibly CO2 extraction put on your tongue burns basically mislabeling gallery itself is a little bit wild West right now most definitely met and you know I've had patients come to us and say yeah we bought this said at the jiffy mark down the road in and it doesn't work it doesn't do anything in and I look at it and you know a lot of these products were were made in India or in China and hey guys I it may be the real thing but these guys and and we have other CBD lines in our store also that are that we know the growers trip and just like your guys we we know where this plant came from we know that it was tested we know that it was tested for pesticides we know that that you know it was tested for levels of THC or CBD or other cannabinoids that are in it when I talked to Steve last week whenever we were entertaining the idea of moving KB MD CVD to I alternative medicine Oklahoma the very first question he said is we can't shelve this without a authenticated COA certificate of analysis and can you may want to talk about this why did you partner with Alexa and all-knowing it that there were certain parameters that you knew you had to meet so knowing that the industry itself so let's back up and just look at the supplement industry so my my initial background was in clinical research during pharmacologic studies and then I Neil found a few holes there we figured out we could do something natural to fix people and that's how we develop doctrine until once I get in touch until I realized holy cow the this industries people mislabeling their making claims or doing things so knowing that if I was really get into the CBD aspect of medicine I just wanted to make sure that I went with a company that was completely on the up and up very open and make sure that they had complete sourcing it was an organic farm they could naturally extract which of the supercritical CO2 extraction and religious source to one company so they have complete control of everything and that was a little and the been very happy that I've partnered with them in when you talk to the CEO when we have lunch with Gabe the people that are doing the right thing they want help each other out so they're there all about if you want to do CW Charlotte's Web do that CBD line is lying as he lines another one wherever it was like yeah let's just all were not in competition the good the people that are doing the right stuff or not competition with each other there there to educate and that's why want to part with little there were very open about church said yeah we just want to do this and that's why they want to part with me because they know that I want to be publishing lots of clinical data on this yes so at another big thing that Stephen also let me know is that we have to have CBD's that is full spectrum that we had on this a little bit last week and we can get into a little bit about what full spectrum of what the entourage effect is what you learn some words like terpene's final cannabinoids. Full spectrum and then talk a little bit about somebody who may appear reputable doing things like isolates but what limitations are on that so Sean start you what is it mean for something to be a full-spectrum product within your your dispensary yeah and people that have researched using cannabinoids to treat their ailments that that's the first thing that they asked for they want a full spectrum CBD and it it it it is very beneficial because all of these can I have annoyed CBN CBD and CBG and even THC they all work with each other and and that's why having a full spectrum product here extract it is very very beneficial I just I feel like that it's the way that these cannabinoids work with each other to to address your problem so it we had last week we talked about drugs that have been formed down to isolate said actually underperformed compared to what it was they were they were designed to build a home Otilio told me GW pharmaceuticals's, who are hidden@gwpharmaceuticalsaddress.fda approval for PDO lacks direct appeal something like that something like that that I got approved for seizures it is a CDD isolate what is interesting without republishing more there is a great example because I'm not a neurologist but as gas are all just they did try to look at that particular isolate in ulcerative colitis and ended up having a big dropout rate due to side effects I don't see side effects when I use the full spectrum right not all and will and in talking about full-spectrum hit on a little bit also but to you today different cannabinoids as well as another word terpenes so tripping profile can actually mean something and this is this is great for you because we had talked about where is the science going so CVD is new everyone the ECS is not being taught in medical school and that's a brand-new frontier for a lot of people to talk about but how do you know what CBD combinations going to work for you could actually be decent some differentiation in doing that so much going to walk all through this to you Sean so one of the things that I been either the tunnel reading and when you start looking at some of these people who are PhD's in the writing about this it gets pretty high level it's like any other specialty I'm a casserole dish I spent three extra years learning the got just got the version of the Endo Canavan all adjust procedure and looking at all just because the science is getting so dialed in and one of the things it's really interesting is that different combinations may do different things for different people so we talk about the disease state when someone comes in and says shot I got my back I got sciatica can you help me with that that kind of thing so I think that the terpenes are terpenes are in every plant and it it's what you smell not tomato plan has terpenes is an oil it I don't know if it's in oil but it is a component you know in their structure but it does have a smell to it most terpenes do the thing that just blows my mind these guys that manufacture lactate the vape cartridges and this is the easiest way to try to understand terpenes and how they can affect the way or change the way I can have annoyed's informed you that they you can do a full extraction of THC and CBD and you can take a terpene like why mean for instance and add to that extraction you can consume that and have a completely different effect then if you added a blueberry terpene to that extraction was the island versing yes obeyed immersing is one of them that they look that word they have shown that if you have a higher concentration of beta mercy that crosses the blood brain barrier and it brings CBD with it so if you've got a brain issue maybe we need to start using higher immersing levels Piper Ian I think is the other one that's more for joint inflammation like relearning about this is a brand-new science and Sarandon is so exciting and it's gonna take people with the pharmacy background people mean that's why love what you're doing and when you have this educator background is a science and you're bringing all that into this new space that needs to be cleared up that's what we have in the show to talk about the stuff yeah and seizure patients for instance they may take a they may get a perfect dial in profile of medicine that they're taking and it works so let's say I'm having 10 seizures a day and this is working great after about a month or two they may start having one or two seizures a day and then three months later they may have three or four in anger stuff doesn't work or I'm have built up a tolerance to it that's where I call it resetting the cannabinoids clock making little subtle changes with terpenes to the same profile that that works for you the same ratio of CBD and CBN and CBG that works for you in treating your seizures but I need to reset the way that is working with my Indo can have annoyed system if that makes sense so by making a small change with a terpene they have found that it resets that clock and that seizure patient now is medicated and able to go through the day without having one seizure and then after a period of time they reset that clock in and and start over so it that's why it in our medical profession I cannot wait till all of our doctors will sit down with the patient instead of just signing the piece of paper and synonym to the dispensary because the other thing you know were lucky to have Stephen in our dispensary I mean we really are truly blessed I had a patient come in the other day that had gone to a another dispensary that had two ladies that were retired kindergarten teachers that were working at the dispensary in you know they had no idea what was in this model innovate they just knew that it was this process and you know for the same reason the matters we get to CVD are probably matters on his help guide you to listen work for so when I run into whenever I see anybody there's quite a few multilevel marketing companies which are try to get into the CBD industry and what I have seen is that if I go to like a tradeshow or something the have a booth I'll just walk up to me like what's this and listen to what they say and everyone that I've encountered doesn't really understand it and are just throwing the words out and try to do the skills you need this this is the is isolate this is this it's got a full terpene spectrums or will we limit so isolate nursing turbine spectrum dual turbine is no and let my kids laugh because of the accident happened about five times Robbie will tell me more know you wrong that is it just education thing but if you're just trying to move some stuff there ever is using these words like did you heard the term broad-spectrum so broad-spectrum is a marketing term is no such thing as each of the broad-spectrum and I cannot find it fascinating that that's catching on, the Joe dirt style of selling the difference tween blue sky pasta Dragon just does well Doug number one thing that we look for is you now want to know how the medicine was made I want to know where the cannabis came from and I want to know that it was tested and that's why I can't always recommend going and buying this on eBay this on that you stay online for $5.99 in and think it is really going to it it may hurt you your point is now I want to hear your horticultural background how you guys grown up their local well it's funny because you know going into this you know I'm researching you know what you're going to be the next big hot strains you know what are they doing in California in Colorado and Washington is no wedding cake in LA confidential all these little strains that are that are out there and but that the thing is in in our state the demand is not for those recreational crazy strains aided they want a one to one or a 2 to 12 parts CBD to one part stair here today or they want a our number one seller right now that we sell more of the I'm and I got 12 strains of cannabis in jars on the wall we sell more of our its Highway 77 is the strain it's red dirt RX I believe grows it but it's hit it's hang up it's it's hemp flower its cannabis that you can purchase when we sell the Texans what percentage of these it is sales of ACV diversity all gosh 90% so what's clarified for anybody because it's a wide-open street what makes hemp CBD legal or what makes it so that the farm bill passed the Niger federal government at least recognized yet they're looking it they don't care about any of the 5060 70 different parts of the cannabis plant they look at one thing and that one thing is THC and there they want to know that that is going to be below a certain percentage and we shoot we we we see on our lab reports like .3% and below of THC and then anything above that with all the other cannabinoids CBD your CBG or CBN that they can be at at any level you know and end up in the product so we buy lots .3 or less correct correct yeah and and a lot of that may totally vary by state there there are some states I think I have I sighed a ship after breaking and I'm sorry but I think the only state the difference is Virginia in which case it's up to 1% but any other net across the board nationwide adding 0.2% okay I could be wrong but that's what I yeah and I think there's are you saying it with total confidence we trusted I've done a little bit of research and just a little that I don't partake I just to the research of you watching our computers are connected the describes we can look at what Chuck Patrick I want to thank you for being the producer of our show here so what he does is produce or show them comes on the zone should also make sure that you check out his shows also I thank you very much appreciate it hey something and that we only have formants left in the segment but something to consider right now there are only 10 states that are legal medically I'm sorry no recreationally and then beyond that there's 23 that have some sort some form of medical Texas ashes and fit that because they have specific medical and then there are a handful of others that have decriminalized possession of marijuana or I marijuana products or hemp products so tell me little bit what is the trouble and I know y'all expense a lot of traffic moving from Texas to go to Oklahoma what makes it so prohibitive right now in Texas is that it's not really a medical application yes so Texas hat does have a medical program on the Texas there medical program there is one qualifying condition and that qualifying condition is intractable epilepsy not the other hundred and 30+ forms of of seizure disorders or epilepsy but specifically intractable epilepsy a bottle up talk to God that we were doing a symposium in an indent in the other day that by the way I had I thought I was and have a bunch of North Texas kids there it was all a it was an entire retirement community Robeson Ranch was our audience but met a guy there that has intractable epilepsy he paid $900 that they one dispensary intent was for you know his his product of dollars a milligram oh my goodness and we sell it you know 50 bucks 60 bucks you know depending on the product maybe 90 yeah it's crazy so our legislature in Texas they're in session right now there's no plans to to legalize cannabis in taxes on a full medical like Oklahoma did or a recreation like Colorado so will wait another two years in taxes for our legislature to meet again so I wanted to sell to somebody with intractable epilepsy I'm sure it's really easy to do is open up a store right exactly you you write a check for 1,200,000.2 and you stand in line you you wait because there I believe there are about six guys that will write your letters so just you have to pay to play you what these right now that it's therefore surely there's a lot of companies out there in Texas that are providing the service rather there there probably is and don't call me Shirley so that there are there I'm unsure there's just tons of companies that have paid the 1.2 the playwright exactly yeah and only one of them got the deal contract so that's not a monopoly all know and and that's what was really neat about Oklahoma they made it very very affordable for four guys to get into the campus game and in our license fees are very very $2500 is what allows 1.2 million what you are doing a little Bahamas decided they want to give access they believe in the idea and access it cost is a barrier to access it is that's why we've priced the CBD the way that we have that's why we priced out on till whether we have I think it's so fascinating that the people that are swimming toward you are the ones wanting CBD which is really interesting suddenly scared of THC but the people that are looking for medicinal use they don't even want high THC strength yeah we only got 22nd till the bottom of the hour begins but I tell you what stay tuned because what we want to talk about is something crazy happened to people who actually suffered what they did early talk about very incident in the hospital crazy John is a half-hour it looks like you're losing I am losing weight I am losing my lost about 10 pounds how are you doing it funny name but I done it with review zone RAD use zone.com and the stuff works it's you get it all that the molecule this and that found in that all I can tell you is it it's a it makes you feel full and he keeps your mind off of wanting to overeat and also boost your metabolism you're done and more guy try it today it's good work for you like his work for Brad and countless other people read you zone.com are IDUs zone.com now you can fly anywhere in the world and paid discount prices on your airline tickets flight today to learn this harassment to read or anywhere else you want to go and pay a lot less Gary call the international travel department right now low-cost airlines 800 452-107-5800 452-1075 that's 800-452-1075 have you done it you catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror I'm I'm one of those people you don't want to see naked I yeah most of us but I mean you look and you're going to die I don't get whatever all it's horrible hey that's Doc Townsend and Brad Staggs to tell you about a different way to shed those pounds this is brand-new technically been around for a couple years or so it was based on research from the University of California but said there is a molecule called OEA that's found naturally in your body produces it in the Mediterranean diet that when taken in concentrated amounts it will actually make you feel fuller and boost your metabolism I lost about 10 pounds so far is a mere amazing Valley school company said we can take this to market to make this great product will help you it's called would you zone our IDU zone.com our IDU zone.com Brad's work does work for Brad's work for me countless other people go to read you zone.com and try today you're gonna love it read you zone.com remember that our IDU zone.com all right back and yet some throw in there Patty and I just need a limit on me to my I know it's finally we we had a lot that we just said that nobody heard it was great I'm skinny hey, so I just reset we are joint stillness this last half-hour without Sean buys VP VP operations alternative medicine up in Oklahoma but how about into exit on the whole lot of time left we got it did the last hours flew by so something that stuck out to dark brown eyes we talked last week David Irving Place football professional football player originally from California played at Iowa State a believe amazing defensive player for the Cowboys he just received his third suspension is decided that he is going to retire and he basically tested positive for THC and he claims that he was medicating himself and just a few things that he said just to take eye contact and have kids listening up so I was going to quote exactly as he said it on Instagram so basically guys I quit I'm outta here I'm not doing the ship no more some people are like oh you're addicted to weed I'd rather be an addict to that then the Xanax bars are the Hydro's or the Seroquel that they been feeding you essentially what I take from David Irving's message is he's finding relief this is a guys playing professional football he's getting banged around quite a bit you happen to know somebody played professional football for quite some time we talked about him on the first show everybody Junior Bryant played 10 years in the yeah we we talk about it he took in geode took a beating with that mean you get out of these a massive man Hitler heads and I just said in the last hour that they're showing traumatic brain injury high schoolers so Welton and we got a friend who's a is a pain doc MD Kelly Bidwell and she is looking also for alternative ways to help her patients not feel pain and she's been able to take people who've been addicted to opioids as well as a lots of duct documented I cases out there and move them over to an alternative therapy sometimes CBD so this is what's fascinating about the signs of it so what he figured out is that his endo- cannabinoid system needed to get back to homeostasis or get back to normal because were to be publishing lot on this but when you are low on your endogenous Endo cannabinoids specifically Ananda Marden to AG more importantly Ananda my because that's the one that is kinda low-level going around when that slow you can see that the perception of pain is higher when you get that back to normal your body down regulates those receptors what ends up happening with chronic stress and with a lifestyle review not sleeping well you didn't banged up like that you create chronic inflammation Ananda my levels will go down your CD one receptors actually go down and the ones that are left become hypersensitive and then it ends up creating more pain and into a G goes up trying to combat that's over now were talking about some serious science and chemistry and he's exactly right dear Susanna that's addicting here some Seroquel we don't really understand what I feel are the side effects are pretty fun though because I see that all the time SSRI inhibitor inhibitors can create lots of weight gain and things like that and he found a way to medically correct his own endo- cannabinoid system and he gets suspended it doesn't it doesn't quite add up amine at the NFL in a really weird way I think trying to appear like this clean league where as compared to the NBA NHL and MLB which really are nearly astringent for THC yeah checking Dino right before this Randall Gregory he got a suspension all I/O with the Cowboys and I believe it was his third suspension the interesting thing is listen the talk shows and other people talking about these these athletes that that no that combine is coming up they know that in March there going to be because he testified and you're like why does this guy why why does he not stop using cannabis and go impasses drug test and then use cannabis later when they're not testing well this guy Gregory for instance and obviously you know that our other very multiple cowboys and and athletes they need this medicine so bad that if they did not take there their medicine they wouldn't be playing football at all they wouldn't be doing any type of sports at all day a lot of them are taking it whether it's for a a mental condition not just the you know the sore back of the sore muscles from from playing but you know head injuries that that you know because these thoughts and ideas to go on in their bodies that that they need if they don't use cannabis they are just going to implode and not be able to do anything like what I'm hearing is that when I do with my patients so let's get back to inflammatory bowel disease my patients need this medication I can show a subtle level why certain drugs are needed… Use biologic Remicade front center and if suddenly Remicade was illegal or much worse were not worse but I just different when the insurance company decides not to pay for all the sudden the patient stop with $10,000 bill month well that's it that's a total travesty so now we have a very similar situation where I have a mechanism of action I can show White's doing well with the mechanism of action of why he was taking it on a cellular level there's no difference between that and the drugs that we prescribe right it's I have acid reflux if I can't take my medicine I'm miserable and I will if it becomes illegal they test for and I'm still planning on going back I got one year left on my college eligibility of trying to pack up and suddenly proton pump inhibitors which is what I'm on because I bad reflux and miserable I would still keep it you know it's interesting also I can because it was a few months ago that you now are you chili some research that you would run across and there were people who had been able to move away from thinking we had one case was 28 years of opioid dependence think Ayn Rand she now is not having to take opioids any more because she was able to start using CBD and I believe is post radical post a car accident or something like that but regardless the long-term side effects of opioids is over and over time we talked about of your dependency last week over time you basically always end up having to take more threshold free to get that and the G.I. distress he occurs from long-term opioid use is usually some crazy chronic constipation and then you have the malaise or the flat affect the mean unfortunately for those who become dependent upon opioids but it's OxyContin fentanyl patches etc. it's it's not a pretty scene so I will do a small spoiler alert right here we actually have a word in the coming out with a blog and some information on this particular thing and so a few key points to takeaways will be for this blog we do pain this is unbelievable it has been estimated to cost $635 billion annually Dennis sold many things are's runaround pain because that's the thing that drives people to go take something pain opioid crisis is alarming CBD is the second most abundant phytochemical that we know that has been shown to mitigate pain perception so are whole articles going to be about the opioid crisis and how to help people with that it was it's our fault that so many patients are sick we talked last week Chuck Patrick talked about finding heroin in the mollusks and wherever that was right because there's so much opioids in the system when I went to medical school we were told that if you have real pain you will not become addicted which we now know is completely wrong not true and that was a pharmaceutical based message that we are being told and now we have the opportunity to change a little bit here and were to once again want to drive up and drop all these articles right off it yeah you really be interested in saying that really would it's intimate it is hard to explain it's hard to explain this because a lot of people may say all well that snake all you're saying it treats you know your head injury you're saying this treats inflammation in your your back in tennis elbow and but when you do understand how it works and how the Indo cannabinoids system works in our body it yeah it does it really is it it really does address multiple different problems that can occur in in in our bodies so incentive been opened you'd mentioned that before we even started the radio show the all had people who come up who are looking for pain relief etc. you brought attention to the story that I didn't know until this morning that occurred at the Missouri so will we will post the link to this video in the show notes after production but there is an issue that occurred as I get the facts right there was a Missouri patient stage IV pancreatic cancer care who was in the hospital and then due to a tip suddenly found him and his hospital room being searched yes Galileo shout you guys need to see this video it my daughter she actually texted this to my wife and I and she wished my daughter was traumatized by this video it was the craziest thing and so Missouri did just pass a medical bill to get in and I got a good one that they passed now a lot of states will pass a bill and then they have a period of time six months to a year that they're going to you'll figure out how they're going to do it how they can implement that bill and that's what Missouri is doing this patient had stage IV pancreatic cancer he is in up in a bad way and he found that using and I believe he was using what they call Phoenix tears which is a Rick Simpson oil taken in a capsule form to explain what Rick Simpson oil yeah yeah and and so Lotta times if if a patient has stage IV cancer or a really really bad but advances the advanced disease they go that's where you have to get aggressive with your treatment and you that you actually need to really shock and flood your system with his many cannabinoids I like I said that flood your system fill those receptors do not have that much time to do it when I talk to my patients it's like a dry sponge you know we do the dosing here but it may take longer yeah 50 mg twice a day on your tongue but if you got a really dry sponge meeting your endo- cannabinoids are severely depleted it may take time to hydrate that sponge down when you got advanced pancreatic cancer you don't have a lot of time to get at it yeah you gotta get after it and that's where Rick Simpson all Rick Sampson invented this he actually made his first with the coffee maker he was using that type of pan to evaporate the alcohol so basically if you took to ounces of cannabis and you did a an extraction with with alcohol and you cooked alcohol off and you you made an oil all of the cannabinoids will shrink down and feel like a little thimble is really concentrate its tiny tot X2 ounces right and so these patients like this this gentleman in Missouri a lot of times they'll use what I call attacking method they'll do a sublingual absorption so they'll take a little toothpick and put a pellet of that oil on their gums and they hold it in her mouth for try to hold it 20 minutes and it's real Hampi it's doesn't taste great they also take the capsules Phoenix tears bile bombs where they have the Rick Simpson oil in the capsules to aggressively get after this cancer so well that's what this guy was doing that's what this guy was doing and also the way CBD plays in that because I've worked with people that were in this situation I create I call it a rescue pack I got a bunch of different CBD products I got your part. The actually mob one of my patients she took this was was the first sale that we had and it was as a rescue because she was about to consume a large amount of cannabis and we had to get that level high fat because we didn't have time and CBD as we said earlier does work with THC as far as balancing that out so I didn't want her to feel euphoria or stone PD discusses the stoning effect yes sir it really do and that's why a lot of patients want the one to one no ratio of THC and CBD but anyway this guy was taking the Rick Simpson all in the capsule form and the police got a tip from a security guard that they smelled marijuana even though nobody smelled marijuana when I walked in and they go to the gasbag and I think they found CBD's only family I said look it's all my fingers if you want to arrest me out of parking lot you know and they go through his hospital in his hospital room unbelievable unbelief and the doctor even comes in is like do you have all work for this and we see the video they literally just rifling through his belongings while he is in his hospital bed filmed in the for the position I down I mean he's examining in the bed off of a tip that I thought I smelled some of that on believing in a legal legal medical state and he even told that I submitted my paperwork and wait on the state you know I don't have time to wait so it's a it's a wild situate how I feel just actually silly comparing my heartburn medicine when we have people with stage IV pancreatic cancer that is making a difference in what little life they probably have rendered being harassed like have not seen what's interesting thought just occurred to me but you said when I compare my my reflux situation to survey pancreatic cancer and then I start to think well you know sometimes people they want to know how can CVD treat this and then also treat this but nobody asked that question about opioids if somebody happens to hurt in a certain area or have a different kind of pain that are completely unrelated nobody bats an eye whenever you say I'm treating with opioids for multiple different port or something I just learned recently so Sean you know Tylenol and NSAIDs are used to treat pain you've heard of hollow right right do you know that we really don't understand how it works until just recently no no I Tylenol is in my opinion can be one of the it is one of the biggest killers in our population one of the deadliest drugs and we just recently found out that it actually works on the Endo cannabinoid receptors all along and it kills livers yeah yeah the inadvertent taking tall so that's a great example we have drugs that are over-the-counter which are killing people and it's now recently discovered that it's working on the same receptors that we have a safe product that works better on it's you know let's let's rotate Tylenol and Motrin Tylenol Motrin we give it our babies are little kids and let me tell you I I don't know if this is exactly true but I compare a 500 mg Tylenol to 1/5 of whiskey or vodka as far as what my labor is going to have to do to metabolize that Tylenol pill and so when I'm taking an opioid the majority of the opioids and II guess it's to activate the opioid so your body can absorb it faster whatever I don't know all I know is Tylenol is used with just about every Opio he's at it right you get the combination drugs already Tylenol with codeine hearses said all her combo and it's sort have been going one reason to do that is to trying to any efficacy so that more drugs are sold that's all there is to it and they both mask each of the ever sure which ones working I don't think Tylenol nor ibuprofen would ever make it past the FDA now if it went through typical rigorous studies the G.I. bleeding in the kidney failure that happens from ibuprofen and NSAID like drugs and that of course the liver failure that takes place little realizes the cold will take Tylenol little ticked equal mental take NyQuil with little realize I will then all of a sudden I got a patient coming in in their yellow and their liver failure and work on the transplant center in the inadvertently of over-the-counter products will deliver yeah and now I mean I just went once it actually probably the whole works right in our realize her progress in the cannabinoid system which to me is just ammunition to say look these drugs are been around for a long time to hurting people and now we have a safer alternative that works better on the same system what kind interesting to because all all a lot of this is just in my small microcosms of a much bigger thing that is somebody feels like they are threatened I people finding new alternative natural means to feel better this is not about getting high this is not about being an advocate for psychoactive drug recreational use or anything like that in this particular setting this is simply about people trying to find a better way to feel comfortable and not have to deal with pain and even in Texas right now is 254 counties right now there's a different way for different DAs in each one of our counties to approach the CBD issue in Dallas County not a big deal at all one county over Weathers Fort Worth Tarrant County it's for some weird reason right now it's a big deal the DA doesn't like Stevie probably not educated on it probably has no idea what it actually is just here's that it could be related to marijuana and I don't want that I can we have patients that come from Abilene and Wichita Falls that tell us we cannot find any CBD in Abilene Texas it's been pulled from the shelves they they don't have access to so they may be of a county very similar to what you're talking about where it it's education a lot of these guys still aren't educated that's one cool thing that Oklahoma did do one of the first big meetings they did have was with law enforcement to to go over their medical plan to go over what you should do on a traffic stop that you know how you should handle this that this is no longer the devils lettuce were no longer be allowed to steal that by the way the devil's letter I want to interrupt but you know as I think there's a lot of confusion out there between THC THA CBD cannabidiol CBG CBN there's always terms being thrown about can we can we define for the listener I think this is super valuable and I got seen this in another a lot of other states whether trying to educate the the end-user and especially medical patients but what is the difference between say cannot annoyed's CBD and specifics in specific can have a dial and THC versus what the body produces THC a can we can we discuss I mean I think it's very important because people still are art saying they're all the same finger all girl teaching how to make a high but really it's it's not that way now will start with the THC a and THC if you want me to and you can do the CBD but they know in the raw cannabis form in a in in the bud if if this plant has a percentage of THC it is actually in the form of THC a and so there's an acid on the end of that chain and so in the past and typically the way I'm going to release that acid chain and just have THC as I am going to combust that material heat and smoke it and so now I'm consuming THC so when making medicines in our and our processing area whenever I'm processing of cannabis whether I'm infusing it into an oil or an edible I I I look at T HCA and also look at THC and I don't want to just D carboxyl lies this material this raw material and just make THC I want to do that also but I want to have a true spectrum of the plant a true broad-spectrum that you talked about file a go so I will take raw cannabis that has not been the carboxyl lysed or heated to a point where it changes to THC instilling the THC a when it's in that form you you do not feel the effect that she would if it was in the THC form such as the psychotropic effect basically write the act of a psychotropic psychotropic that good good were there so I would feel comfortable if I had a pediatric patient kid with that was having seizures and I was working with that kid's parents and that child and I was going to compound or formulate a medicine for that kid I would want to first start with a cannabis product that contain THC a and not D carboxyl lies that the cannabis and release that acid chain I want to first start with you know what is in this bit is not going to cause this kid to have a psychotropic effect sometimes that may or may not work with the kid or the pediatric patient for adult patient yet again again exactly so that's where then you start looking at combinations of let's let's let's change this to THC and because we we found scientifically that there are some great there are some great benefits of using THC and and let's incorporate that with with the THC a and the CBD while this is this is thank you so much for bringing that up job Patrick because this is new to me right but you know I spend my whole world educating myself on in the cannabinoid system in CBD and didn't even occur to me that TSCA THC can be used medicinally in different ways now fascinate and it it it's very very interesting and and it works not just by ingesting so if I may if I if if I'm using a cannabis product that I've been fused into an oil and part of it is the carboxyl lysed just THC and other parties T HCA whether I'm rubbing that on my body as a salve or ingesting it they do have different effects and so you can benefit by doing it both ways and in some cases it may be better to do it one way in and not do it at all the other way and that's where you know when dealing with like pediatric patients that I want to treat their problem but I do not want to give them any type of psychotropic or euphoria like they would get from hydrocodone are over an opioid or true THC that's where I'll look it at the THC yeah that's fascinating I want to cut anything short but we just burn through two hours because it's been fascinating to tell you what this was recovered so much ground you are so knowledgeable and I feel like this is one of the most informative podcasts that I have heard I listen to a lot of them and this is because were on it's probably the most informative because I didn't say a whole lot in the know Sean you you were highly really informed in and educated share this listening this just shows I want this shared with the Crohn's and colitis society and want to share with chronic pain people I want this shared so that people can understand that stuff like this source makes a difference PTSD people any we all know/rings yeah CTE hate Sean before we go yet I have a minute go ahead and tell us what we can feel confining online yeah we actually you can go to Okie herb.com we have a website where were still working at building that website but Okey_herb at Instagram and alternative medicine okay and Instagram bloodshot thank you whilst you this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun
Welcome to the GCP, your host Kenneth brown, MD along side Eric Rieger, CRNA. Dr. Brown introduces why he launched the project and where he wants to take the project in his journey to bridge the gap between medical and natural science. Check your ego at the door and listen up to the GCP!
All right welcome to the gut check projects I am Eric Rager and I am joined by your host on the object project the board-certified gastroenterologist Dr. Kim Brown what of your own show while so we are now on the gut check project this is the inaugural show John just thinking that we been planning on doing something like this for a long time with this incredible opportunity to do it with these great mentors Jeff Patrick and all these other great guys here doing this incredible production value now we have a studio on thinking that maybe our tagline should be something like the gut check project let's all check our egos at the door and learn from each other nothing is off the table nothing is off the table in fact we have a bunch of stuff on a table so this is our first episode people may say get check project sounds great who in the hell is that guy he says he's a doctor but is not wearing scrubs want you tell us a little about yourself Dr. Brown so my name is Kenneth from a board certified guesser neurologist I do want to back up just a second and explain exactly why were here because of a few weeks ago I had the opportunity and the pleasure to come and actually be a guest on Dr. Thompson's show here on mojo 5.0 chair and then we came over to spoony radio and we had a great show you can go to the YouTube channel take a look at that and unfortunately a few days later he was actually tragically killed so I just want to pay respects to that and say thank you we wouldn't be here without him I had such a great time with him and he's the one that explained man you you can do this you guys should have your own show it's really fun so unfortunately you know we lost as great guy and he's the he's the real reason why were sitting in this particular Studios I got so excited hanging out with him so no doubt yeah so as I said my name is Ken Brown board-certified gastroenterologist I'll give you almost give you the whole story this probably led people to don't know anything about me so I probably don't I'm I was actually born in Lubbock Texas that's right big red raider big red raider briefly parents moved almost immediately to Nebraska so I consider myself more of a Nebraskan and I went to medical school Nebraska my fourth year of med school and scraping ice off my car and I just went now done with this move someplace cool and warm and I just ran to Texas and so I end up doing the rest my training in San Antonio and became board medicine certified in internal medicine and then gastroenterology and since then moved to the Dallas area Plano Texas have been practicing astrobiology for while too long now capture a good while not a rear end yeah yeah a lot yeah we do I know you know I may, but Dr. that's why say nothing is off the table were over here and so I have two kids I have a Puerto Rican wife so we speak Spanish in the house I worked very hard so that my family can play a lot of tennis and world spoony radio we got chef Patrick being a mentor here and as it turns out my family's total foodies we love sort of bonding around foods was a perfect environment when this diner setting to great way to launch the show so I will ask you Eric super fly reader think that's your juror yeah yeah now would I? My parents always told me to find the esoteric I know that you are a child actor would breathe. You did you are a rodeo clown right and then your male model yet and so what if what you doing now besides help me host the show well I was in the middle of inventing a mechanism to create high temperature ice cubes and I didn't really work out so I was a melting every time there was nothing I could do but I will say that that led to me deciding to become a cRNA or a certified registered nurse anesthetist in and back in 2012 and in meeting you and we've been I was your anesthesia provider is that you are working in gastroenterology and course I work get a few places outside of the G.I. clinic to deliver anesthesia as well but I also have a wife and two sons they are not into tennis but very much into a competitive basketball and both in high school now and so that basically led to me working alongside you and next thing I know just like every aspiring gastro neurologist and anesthesia provider I ended up on a podcast there we go so you so it looks like your tRNA you've got kids that are heavily involved in basketball trip I do believe you work for another company called trying to let you dear to my heart which will talk a little bit yeah and you even have worked for a particular company and still have a part owner of that right yeah I am a small owner of that at one of my best friends I grew up with in Gainesville Texas his name is Scott Willis and several years ago he just approached me and said I'm gonna start to kill company by myself unless you want to help and I knew nothing about an essay that sounds great let's do it so we asked people for money with a like to invest into killing people like investing in alcohol and he back in 2012 when I met you he launched tequila 512 and that's based at Austin and they slowly are going out as an organic tequila and he's a doing quite well very excited so we both are involved in several companies this what happens when ADD just meets momentum and just keep going and we decide yeah let you several podcast now beautiful studio that has no great mentors like I'd mention like working I have the ability to have his high production value would get the cameras this is stuff that we could never do with you and I have talked about in the pockets before but I'm so excited that were on spoony radio right now to actually launch this weave we been involved with a lot of great people of last few years I but I've done a lot of podcasts without question yeah and we've made some great contacts and basically all those guys everyone the practice we got on guys like Chris Presser and Rob Wolf and I could just name we've Done Ben Greenfield Tunl., Park as they've all been so clueless and kept in touch and said would you guys have your own show we can do this I would love for spoony radio to get big enough that we can start flying these people and having great shows and talk about different things that's my ultimate goal with this so no support of the shows will be really important I would say with the mentorship of Doc Thompson in the course in his wake you still have Patrick you still have Ron you still have that Tom and all the company really picking up and pressing with spoony radio that it won't be long until that happens and you know you do doesn't just stop at those that podcast that you mentioned in your event on know you even on the wellness mama you even Rhonda Karen Fitzgerald the exposure that you had there from the going on all those different types of podcast I think is well this is really eye-opening so tell Silbert about why are you doing this podcast after doing all of those podcasts every time that we have the opportunity to go on with such great people that were really established if they had like Melanie Avalon okay intermittent fasting I went on her intermittent fasting podcast and because of the research I did for that now I practice intermittent fasting so I start looking at what everybody's messages we look at Ben Greenfield's bio hacker love the stuff is doing I looking everything that he has going on that's all, now I have a infrared sauna I got a vibration plate I got I'm doing all the file hacking because of going on been showing talking him but all that stuff and you know I essentially I read Rob Wolf's first book I have read a second book yet but his first book of the pillow solution great book I realize oh my goodness I I'm wanted to change my diet here so that we can I can be more pale you every time I go to show Chris Kress or the compressor Institute holy cow fantastic functional medicine doctor I'm a traditionally trained MD and honestly he opened up my world to the aspect of treating a patient holistically and working on their lifestyle to make everything better he was the first person that I got in close contact with it was actually talking like that so every time we do want these podcasts I grow from it I become more robust I become a more holistic I've just grown from being a traditional trained MD to more of a functional gastroenterologist and I really want to thank every podcast I've been on a map to get some really fun ones with sexy brain the author sexy brain right that was a superfund one sure it's just her whole philosophy is that you have to as we age continued of sexuality in promoting that protecting the brain and you start seeing certain themes what were seeing is protect the brain in my motto it's all health begins and ends in the got pregnant you get is unhealthy everything else is going to start breaking down on you so we can protect your gut and we know we can protect your brain and if I can get you to sleep then we know that all the pillars of health are covered and were going to hopefully bring all these people in to give their expertise in each one of the spots that's gonna be the real goal of the show is to bring education that I'm out there talking to people with after I would do is show I was shocked at how many people would contact me from all over the country if not all over the world and they would set her doing this podcast you mentioned this one thing can you expand on that a little bit more like while they're emailing neither do this I just on the podcast that was it people try to make appointments with me because they were so frustrated that their doctors were not listening to them and here I am learning from authors we have bio hackers we've got athletes with professional athletes that we been talking to I feel like with the whole point of gut check project is check your ego at the door let's learn from each other and if we can learn from each other and I can get that message out to more people I truly believe that we can change the landscape of health someone to say something here I've known you for several years so I know and I seen your patients come through and I've seen where a lot of this genesis of new ideas and new applications of what you want to do with your patients and how they begin to receive it because we see them in the G.I. lab and we seen the from the very beginning and 70 they begin to feel better and they talk about not only how is it affected them but how they want to share that message with their own family and then lo and behold I believe the first actual podcast that you went on he didn't have any warm-ups you went straight to Chris Chris or because we literally did not know what you're getting into and it that point you went on and really it was less than 24 hours it was published it suddenly phones email website traffic on and on and on people began to reach out to you long outside or far outside your nucleus of where you have your practice and in North Texas it was multiple states tell me what about that what he did do for you to recognize what that platform is doing for you and the message that you had for people to get better what that told me was that the people that were listening to that podcast had a trusted source there was no agenda it's just somebody that they trusted and they listen to that and they wanted to continue to believe in whatever he was sent okay when it's a podcast you have the ability to subscribe or not got stuck in traffic and I just pops up and it does this this is what this shows going to be about I want to talk about stuff that I truly believe it also I want to talk about things that I have seen success with I have a lot of patients that have had tremendous success of doing diet changes supplements no change a few things work out routines and I get tremendous benefit from that and none of that other doctors are talking like that will the platform is bigger than this we have to get the word out when I learned something I want everyone to get better so what Chris showed me was we just jumped right in that that medium is so powerful if you're honest if you're talking science if you're backing it up in your bringing guests on that are doing the exact same thing that's what I want to do with this I want to bring typical scientist like that to talk research to help out with that kind of thing so somebody has a question let us know hey can you talk to us about antiaging will reach out to me that I have goals and aspirations Peter Addie as I'm a huge fan of him if you don't know who he is he is an antiaging specialist pseudo-roots I get some other interests also jujitsu and things like that you know eventually will have some you know Joe Rogan on the show that's my aspiration to show off you may be a little much on the first show to say that but I think we can bring it work a merger bridge the gap between traditional medicine and functional science or natural solutions okay so you just hit on something else in another room to touch on eventually and just so people know the idea behind gut check project is every Thursday from 9 AM to 11 AM central central time we will stream live and in the course will be available recorded after that but every Thursday that's going to be to get check project and while we know that that's all going to do going to have basic themes every single time that we do that and what has enabled us to D's to decide Dr. Brown how to reach out to people on this medium is that he does want to bridge the gap so that something I know they were going to talk about the next half hour but what is it to you to bridge that gap what is that mean specifically because I know that it's between medical in natural science and the applications of the two what started my practice I came out of this the classic Midwestern medical school training center and as I've mentioned of learned a lot there about different disease applications in different to the disease states and then once I start my practice I started doing clinical research and pharmaceutical products that were being developed and it was fascinating to me I saw the whole process of how a drug a compound starts what they have to do to get it to market how they have to get it FDA approved the studies that are done and I did those studies there's limitations set it costs to hunt them on a ton of money and you not to spend $30 million to get a drug approved if you're not, stacking the deck your way so realize that there's we need research when I went to medical school it was the dawn of the evidence-based medicine approach or so before that it was always you know you just had this mentorship were the guy in front of you taught you what they did and so on that was the Socratic method of teaching now all of a sudden were talking oh we need evidence-based medicine that everything became evident the numbers didn't add up no go no go yeah will guess what if you get enough money those numbers can add yeah something you can buy some go you can buy some go yeah and that's all that's what I was seeing so because of the traditional research that I was doing I actually was able to find some holes and that's how we ended up developing a product called archer until my baby very close to me if you have any washing you can see this is arch until I saw green packaging will get into that a little bit more but bottom line is do me a favor everybody go to love my tummy.com/spoony spoony SP 00 NY show some love you we want to support this station not just for us but also word trying to make sure that Dr. Thompson's vision keeps growing keeps growing and that's one way to do it is to support the sponsors happens to be that I'm honored that my own company is a sponsor and still offers the 100% moneyback guarantee and they did it before we're given a show that's what so cool yeah oh yes they did so props through our CEO Chuck for taking a bit of chance there and hopefully will continue to grow subject so we have talked over the bridge again you've obviously hit on the fact that you are the creator and a researcher behind the development of John Teal it is a natural solution you did do testing on it for IBS bed legally here in the United States have say bloating ironically enough though when the product was invited with open arms by the intervening Canada what is it we can St. Canada a as he cracks a Molson so yeah it's very fascinating we just got our NPS and NPS the Indian NPN number in Canada and in Canada there is a very different than the US they actually they don't want you to talk around issues like what do your studies what is show what is it show what is the disease state so in Canada were in Canada our new labeling says irritable bowel syndrome in Canada and not have to give some props out to I I do a lot of hemorrhoid work and the hemorrhoid work the company that I was using CRH medical actually called them this week because like how we market in Canada how do we team up to do this as it happens the the the products and not try to help with bloating and constipation which ultimately bloating constipation causes hemorrhoids and liquids team up so that's another thing that will get into but it's fun note launching a different country different culture try to feel what's going on so yeah so in Canada we can say irritable bowel here we gotta say bloating and the vague terms what were all looking around and shifting our heads because this is our first half hour ever the yeah of the gut check project but what I can tell you is you view tuned in so far hang with this for the next hour and half we can talk a little bit about what it was for Dr. Brown to research what it was about the creation of John Teal where he is on the ideas of the cannabis industry natural naturally apply medications on and on and were still going to get into some of the fun stuff in fact what's is all God's name you can guess go ahead and email us the first 17,000 people to email this will get a green too thick yes so the inaugural show we realize that we needed a mascot were calling this guy got see he's up frog on a toilet with a phone correct and I figured that if we had somebody here gutsy that if somebody had a question I couldn't answer we have this little guy call up an expert because of all the work we've been doing I do know a lot experts do know people there are experts in all kinds of things you have an expert next week were to have an expert next week that's correct and probable have experts every single week on topics of anyone has any topics they want to cover KB MD health Pat Sajak came out with stage IV pancreatic cancer to wrong I'm wrong with that database Alex Tribbett will extra back they I watch a lot of TV sound now you did not ask it in the form of question here you did not so it's very sad but I cannot today and I started thinking I was like oh my gosh I had people texting me all morning long hey what does stage IV cancer pinker cancer may not like them when my partners I got to partners or pancreatic experts that will tell you everything about that that's what these guys do we have a pancreatic surgeon that I work with all the time you see a statement Naomi Joshua so he was so brave he did it and is very is very professional tone and even through to a joke saying he knows he's going to survive because he's got three years left on his contract and amp and it's it's of incredibly difficult thing to go through knowing that he I believe is 70 years old is he really saying he looks amazing he looks incredible after all those insults by Sean Connery through still looks like Eric and sucker Trebek had no eyes shut up saying I live and the yeah the Jeopardy's lead with that will Ferrell and all and in the Sean Connery and Burt Reynolds impressions Ella some of the greatest things when I saw that that he actually a bank of cancer for sale but it was S&L yeah gotta watch you not actually watch Jeopardy but the first thing I thought of but that's good for him for embracing it and things like that bring awareness so if there's anything like that going on were delivering those experts people have questions let's talk about different things that help prevent that like healthy lifestyles and really big in the diet various diets and all do them all one of the route you want to think is going on these various podcast meeting people I do a lot of lecturing and Saul go to like Paley why faxes yeah right one of love that come from great conference great conference and got a note the opportunity to actually lecture this year there will probably be lecturing next year also Michelle Noris called me up and said man we really want you to come back there's a great example of the ability of diet to just completely change people's lives Mediterranean diet in no profound anticancer diet and you were to hidden all that stuff check but it's not just going to be my opinion it's going to be backed by science we can sit there and talk about it working to try and bridge that gap like we mentioned and if it's complex conflicting with complex something that's really complex as the Endo cannabinoid system the ECS and in fact then actually leads into a little bit something else we we may have neglected and this is a gut check project the gut check project is basically brought to you by KB MD health so this is Ken Brown can Brown medical doctor so KB MD health.com is where you can find a lot of the research it will be posting is a brand-new website started a week ago and from there will be able to help bridge that gap and show your methods in terms of the research the proven science what works what doesn't work and you can even give suggestions on people you would like to see him get check project from KB MD health I don't it's we talked about Halifax I think it was three years ago that I would spell effects of the speaker just to check out to see if we should be a sponsor and that's what I want by the elixir no oh yes and a looks and all is I've since learned is a company that is fantastic they been doing the right thing the entire time tossing IG industry really vetted a lot of companies and ultimately is the company that I partnered with but is really funny because what happened as I walked by the booth and a person is not friend Christine said this is three years ago hey you you know anything about the ECS and I am a medical doctor like I know absolutely nothing and she just proceeded to vomit so much information on me that I liked what I'll buy a case ship it to my office and I literally handed out hemp garage CBD to my patients for free and I just said look I know what she was saying at that time to there's so much information was coming at me so fast all I know is that just about every patient came back and said I need more of that and that's when I knew that okay I need to do a deep dive for the last three years I've been really diving deep into this doing more research this is a functional medicine type research were to find different ways to apply this but using science will have fun but I also want to talk science downdraft talk sets in fact working to get into that later today about ECS and what it is that it means to you and then I think you and I can both completely admit that regardless to manage the training or your med school and why not ECS not talked about we talked about the digestive system we talked about the skeletal system nervous system etc. that particular system which everyone has completely and it's fascinating because it's just not talk about a medical school and so when you go to medical schools do we get busy yet and we don't know that's our job will be teaching that and were looking over at one of our mentors here we got music, and I guess that means we need executive break as the first half-hour catching project holy child thank you all for joining us we will be back here at the bottom now you can fly anywhere in the world and paid discount prices on your airline tickets flight today to London Paris Madrid or anywhere else you want to go and pay a lot less Gary call the international travel department right now low-cost airlines 800 452-107-5800 452-1075 that's 800-452-1075 fast-track student loans can get your student loans out of the vault stop any wage garnishments stop collection calls and stop seizure of your tax refund give yourself a break to stop the stress and get your student loan payments down to as little as $25 a month based on what you can afford to pay 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 800-709-4395 have you done it you catch a glimpse yourself in the mirror I'm I'm with those people you don't want to see naked IBM most of us but I mean you look and you're going to die I know I get to whatever you call it's horrible hey that's Dr. Townsend and Brad Staggs to tell you about a different way to shed those pounds this is brand-new technically been around for a couple years or so it was based on research from the University of California that said there is a molecule called OEA that's found naturally in your body produces it in the Mediterranean diet that when taken concentrated amounts it will actually make you feel fuller and boost your metabolism I lost about 10 pounds so far is a mere amazing Valley school company said we can take this to market to make this great product will help you it's called grid you zone our IDU zone.com our IDU zone.com Brad's work does work Brad's work for me countless other people go to read you zone.com and try today you're going to love it read you zone.com remember that our IDU zone.com all rights we are back with the second ever half hour of the gut check project I just heard in my headphones alive and read for which is the riches of I have heard of them also into Rich's own my good friend Dr. Jaeger. The medical director of that and this is super exciting because ridges own happens to actually function like a typical cannabinoid that said the science that we could get into the oh EA oh eat a fascinating it is in all of oil extract that when he gets in small bowel it gets broken down into something that functions like an Endo cannabinoid it suppresses your diet I have no stock in the company of anointing only CJ and his CEO Cecile Sasi Sasi on CJ and Sasi Excel 1 of the things that I do want to bring up on the show for everyone I want everyone have all the knowledge I want every company to succeed I want every advertiser do well basically what I'm saying is a rising tide lifts all ships it does indeed just to reset this is Dr. Ken Brown this is his first episode of the gut check project he is a board-certified guesser neurologist so we left off last half hour talking a little bit about will why were here and the whole idea schedule bit more specifics here for this half-hour so you last half-hour you mentioned that your you want to build bridges between natural and medical science and that's a really kind of the flyover term is a lot of debt to that and I've seen a lot of that debt since you have been working together so once you go ahead and and tell us a little bit about what that isn't what led you from going to med school working as a gastroenterologist all the way down to the road where you want to see what works on both sides both medically and naturally so like all things always go back to school thing signed like all things I think one of the most influential people that has affected my career is getting Leonard Woods was a physical therapist somebody that I also get even a step back further and so good work you have all these people is just so I grew up with a great friend and Junior Bryant he played and of going to Notre Dame and played football there in 49 or 49 of them played for about 12 years and 49 as well a lot of people don't know is that his eighth grade summer a water heater exploded and burned him with his mother he ended up living with me because his mom still in the hospital so he calls me up for Michigan and says the doctors go discharge me I kinda need a place to go riding and asked my parents right beside you live with me still dental my mom and dad hey Junior as you live with us so he spent some time with us and a moment happen where the doorbell rang and again I said my name is Leonard Woods I hear that you have young man has been burned I'm a physical therapist I want to help out at night like okay and then he ended up taking rehabbing Junior making him state champion shotput go to Notre Dame Fulbright football playing whatever the junior always get back to the burn burn victims and burn burn community and now were talking with him about CTE and football and all that so it's really we kept the relationship going little puncture but when you when you have a moment like that were somebody just altruistic Lee brings her doorbell Chris Acree people out on the doorbell you now but but but 30 years ago some 30 years ago I don't yet I don't date myself so yeah so anyways that he pulled up his horse and buggy and but so that that I would be physical therapist and so I ended up doing all through college I worked in a burn unit and I just I did trauma victims and things like that and then I ended up doing mentorship with Woody Leonard Woods when you really admire somebody and he pulled me aside and said dude you need to be a doctor I think that this is I think there's there's more out there for you and then that's when you go from believing okay I'm here to the guy that I really admire says I can be here sure and ever since then it's just been a passion to just break down barriers and figure out ways and hopefully due to her altruistic way and hopefully do it in the safest way possible and so on so that's I got into clinical research so after much about school did my fellowship two years into working at D had to just of health Associates Sgt. clinical research and I one of the first projects that I did was on a drug called by fax and Dr. Mark Pimentel if anybody's ever had any experience with bacterial overgrowth called SEBO well he's kind of godfather that he definitely is located on California and so when I saw the work that wouldn't do that now is one of the leading enrolling sites in the country for their first trial that ended up getting published in the New England Journal of Medicine so they spend like $30 million to put the study out there they go to him to be a speaker form I'm watching all this this is fantastic it's a novel treatment it's safe it's everything that I'm all about its new science that makes notes older at the 11th hour the FDA pulls the rug out from under him and says you know what we want more data they'd already hired salesforce they had already had people that had moved their families out of money and time so much money in time so there is the whole machine is so much bigger than people realize there's a lot of people in the farm industry that are put their whole life on the line. So it's not like this is good or bad it's that these are just different industries and you we may have a few things broken I think that possibly we allow devices to come to market maybe two quick look at a show called the bleeding man she had a bleeding edge on Netflix that'll kinda get into that and on the flipside I think that we have products the FDA is just there to show if it's safe so the 11th hour the rug was pulled and then they had to do a hold of the trial that took about four more years will in that that. That's when I was looking at it and am still in contact with all the scientists around the country and I'm like wow there is a big hole being Mr. we could probably solve the problem using mother nature okay and that was the first time that ever thought about anything like this in the actual story behind this event to return any of my other podcast my real story is I'm talking to Dr. Pimentel he is explaining that will never be able to help the bloated person with constipation is there producing methane gas by fax and doesn't affect the type of bacteria the produce is that at that time I research manager Brandi comes in my office is like why did you write method on the board such scruff the phone as crazy as it turns out it's about methane which is very time appropriate because that Congresswoman oh I forgot her name so we will have to remind about that that that young woman was talking about the greenhouse effect and how we have to get rid of cows Co. Locascio yes I just read that on-site home and we been talking methane and cattle for a long time lesson Brandy goes hey when I was a policy letter for Sen. in Iowa they were trying to mandate that farmers put certain food products in the cattle feed to prevent the methane production in the stomach I think she had inadvertently on her website to her big thing was that she said how parts were causing everything sure is really Cal burps because I just ruined it right and so that's what's happening and that was the aha moment I just went holy how it literally literally holy cow yet a bloated cow came through with all this and that's when I said can get some of that data all that animal data somebody did on leg workforce it's out there just nobody's taking the time to do it because everybody is focusing on rocks that's how we ended up developing outrun to and I believe it's tip of the iceberg I believe that we can do this with other things one of the things we have in my back pocket I have a I have a good friend that is an incredible researcher she will find any article ever any time and so somebody has any questions about hey does this work but no let's see what happens a lot of times the problem with doing natural research is that you even know what you're actually looking at right what I mean by that is there is a study the cannot 2015 where they looked at products at GNC Walgreens the major the major players and they show that almost 79% of those products did not actually show what was in the capsule what was on the label through DNA analysis right so it's 80% of the stuff that you taking might not be anything I not be anything I don't think that the people that are marketing those those that products really care they only care they got caught well it could be that it could be that they don't know that they may not know they may not know you have the best of intentions that a leader you will certainly without her until we hire our own third-party testing rack check the top middle and bottom of every single batch of natural ingredients original does that also absolutely that's why the KPMG health remember upfront till go to love might help me.com/spoony SPOONY show some love with that because that's just going to only keep growing and so when we start talking about natural research the first thing we have to do is are you looking at the ingredients are on the label lemming that is a recent study just came out pretty basic and melatonin melatonin does amazing things for you there's lots of evidence that it actually work on your end of cannabinoid system we can help with your acid reflux it helps you sleep and a recent study to show that when they analyzed melatonin it could be anywhere between .5% to 400% of what's actually in late right so when we start talking data if I come to you and I'm like you know Eric I would like you to start using reserve patrols and antiaging product to show me the data and the data is inconclusive it's all over the map that's looking the people that did the studies may not even realize they didn't spend money to do third-party because it costs so much money how they recoup now you're right on and I also think that in the natural space number one I think what you're alluding to is or may not be enough money in there to publicize the results another thing is when people are doing natural research there researching without prejudice they are doing it to find necessarily just some print a pre-determined endpoint they are just trying to say this is going to work and were going to make sure the numbers were there just doing research reporting research and sometimes it just lays uncovered because it's not heavily funded build on the search for just as you describe and it lays dormant until someone begins to put the pieces together so, describe how that had applied to you and in terms of what you wanted to do to build a bridge between natural in medical science from understanding what natural could actually do to give real results so in my practice and seeing things in my own self like I said I'm but I consider myself as the bio hacker to a fault I will do all go on like one of mycelial were my favorite pupils Ben Greenfield it's funny because he'll do anything to himself I called it when I want to show whatever we we talk research we always talk about the and of something meaning the number of patients to have an outcome and so it's the end of one the end of two whatever I called it the bent of one anything to them so I'm kind like that so I'll call I'll do a podcast the patient will tell me something like I'm on it yeah let's do this and see if it works and I evensong myself I would order different brands of the same thing and I could see different results so you know that there's different things going on so the first thing is I want to make sure that anything I recommended to the patient was third-party tested trip so they know exactly what they're getting so if I say you're going to have better sleep because this melatonin to work I know that are trying to is NSF certified so you can as Olympic athlete you can take that right are certain certifications for that that actually led to my own digestive group she had actually were about ready to launch our subscription box where health arrives to your home were to do that vetting for you which is so cool that they're cutting edge enough to do something like that so basically it's a large G.I. group that knows that their patients take supplements and they want to make certain that if they know their patients are taking supplements which are over-the-counter and they have the opportunity to take various supplements and all different kinds of brands this is a G.I. group it's taking a step forward and say okay we know you're doing this let's help give you some guidance is that, you're describing that's exactly it and this is all going on right now as we speak so amazing it's so cool this was actually present we have a unique opportunity I'm with Simon several healthcare entrepreneurial groups I think I've seen you at the meeting of Bender wanted to do so word several groups and because that were exposed to some very exciting people both in the science side and the business side trip and one of the people he came in contact with he said looked if you guys are so concerned about the health and your community take some ownership of it step up front and say I want to at least vet these things for you and in my opinion if you cover the three primary pillars of health which is gut health all health begins and ends in the gut forgot isn't healthy nothing else will be brain health what's the point of all of this when dementia and Alzheimer's is exponentially increasing must protect that and then forget about the other side of the epidemic of autism right onto the roof left brain health also share an anxiety and depression and all the other things and then ultimately sleep if I can get if I can fix it got protect the brain and get people to sleep there can have all the things they want in their life which is weight loss more endurance better mental clarity all of the above energy happiness and it comes with those three pillars no doubt yes I'm super excited that my company D had decided to do this I want to double down on this right now and say that I truly believe it will be the first large group to do natural research and just show unbiased research that knowing full well that is not to be a whole lot of financial recourse in it but were doing it because we care you want to change the landscape of the health and in our community and hopefully expand beyond our community through stations like spoony radio sure so eight nowadays you you definitely see kind of this this weird split Emerging where if you were to go back to the 80s it was if you're sick go see a doctor and you and your physician so if you're sick go see Dr. if he and you feel this way and you don't feel well go see a doctor and then ultimately that time of course all physicians for the most part want to do their best by their patients but they can they can only do it from the research and the information education they received in school why do you think that we had to shift over to natural medicine number one number two what is it that kept people from embracing some of the natural medicine and then maybe even what are some of the limitations in leaving the medical world behind and ignoring still the good parts that could be in the medical side all just for for natural because you say you want to build this bridge what is it about the good sides of both bringing them together to help people find relief that you found that this is a reason you help people build this bridge so when we look at the pharmaceutical industry will people don't realize is that the way that pharmaceutical companies can communicate with doctors has actually changed over the years and I've done that probably for the good of the whole industry trip in my in my opinion I mean when I was in medical school it was pretty wide open I will get to a look at there's a whole lot of of pharmaceutical reps would have to spend the money hey wait a minute that reminds me of a story and never do the job but yet you good drug rep at one time it's not important important thing is is that you learn lessons and you move on so my marinara care was actually he's been in multiple industries I want you to tell the story because I think it's a really cool and I think it shows where you are at the whole time sure about the hamburgers yeah so we we often were given entertainment budgets and I know that you were the beneficiary of some those entertainment budgets both as a medical student and of course as a physician because how else are you going to get someone's time to tell your message you are a a drug rep and you feel altruistic and yet this is not out there I'm not judging any shirt field or anything it's everything the business over things and industry everything what is it's really hard it be really hard to to see me and get any attention if you're not gonna bring in some food my staff is just the nature of it unfortunately when you and you have to get access because you that the physician is there to serve the patients and so how is she going and access but you have to basically enticing and make it okay for the staff to come and pay some attention to your message along with the physician so we were given a very very large budget and at the time I had mostly a rural area that serviced and I just I couldn't possibly spend all of the money that they kept allocating for for us to spend and and in yellow everything is measurable my numbers by quarter were fine and so I just got to a point where I realize I had all this entertainment money and I didn't really see the reason to just keep buying snacks and things that people wouldn't necessarily need or enjoy the office so I started going and buying just bulk numbers of hamburgers and going to Port Said the town both in Ardmore and Wichita Falls pulling up in my little company issued Jeep liberty opening up the back and and handing out hamburgers and the weird thing that happened there was one day I advised I think 47 hamburgers from the two frogs Grill in Ardmore Oklahoma and I drove to the east side Oklahoma there's a great guy up there in the town's name is Dr. for and I'd Artie been by's office earlier that day but he saw me and he saw me with a bunch of Styrofoam boxes handing it out to people in Ardmore and he stop me
Psalms it will be doing Antonella handing out hamburgers that is what one over somebody who is more altruistic he liked the fact that I was taking the money and he knew that most physicians know it's a simple entertainment budget and you're doing it to gain the attention of somebody are hoping will recommend your product produce sales but when I was really doing was I just saw surplus and I thought there's no way could benefit from this better than somebody just truly hungry today so I bought a bunch hamburgers and handed them out and it turned out that through just dumb luck in turning to be a great sales pitch for me doing the right thing eventually pays on a daily basis and has one thing yeah and you know we took we talked about this that everything is still an industry it's still businesslike I said these people get their products out there and they have to get in front of doctors and when we launched our trunk heel I try to get production right away complain that sandbox right way too expensive so you we learned our lesson that Lorena let them do that but PeopleSoft make money for instance Platelets that sandbox were plain on spoony radio so go to love my tummy.com/spoony put in the code spooning SP 00 NY of an supports companies like upfront to heal so that you know we eventually can start doing some of this natural research when you are asking earlier about why you think there's this shift what you think Chris Kress are in the compressor Institute and the Cleveland clinic in Mark Hyman and all these people and Dave Asby are gaining so much traction talking about this kind of stuff and I think it's because a great example when I was a resident I was working a geriatric clinic and people would come in and every time they go see a doctor so if they're sitting there and they have no five or six doctors every doctor just given a drug they go so is it geriatricians are spent three years working in geriatric clinic I would look at their meds and go don't take that don't take that hill… When you're 95 years old and are on so many pills so many pills so I think that people get very frustrated that they go to the doctor the Department of medicine and they're not getting the results of because of the Internet and the information that is available like shows like this like shows like Brody talked about Chris Presser showing thing Bob.Rob good people are becoming important chair so it's no longer on just go do it what my doctor says that's why there is this movement dysfunctional health slide so excited about this member box that were good it would be you brought some accounting interesting earlier neat and he said that that the FDA's purpose there with that drug research is to make certain that the drugs most of our foremost aren't harmful but then there's an element where they had to show a little bit of efficacy what was the funny realization that you found it happens in the pharmaceutical or medical side for a drug to get approved for to be recognized is making a difference over placebo versus what you are able to do with a natural product before you even branded it and you realize I has something that's different it's already safe but it's actually making a difference so in my space in the gastrointestinal space when you have a disease called like irritable bowel syndrome with the bloating and change in bowel habits a lot of the drugs that are available even drugs that I like to get pulled off the market share after they found them to be unsafe like Zelnorm everything is around 9 to 10% better than placebo and the really expensive and so when we started figuring out natural ways to fix people were having better results mean the reality is we can get 4 to 5 people feeling better if you have the right symptoms in its natural cheaper it's affordable so whenever I think of anything is it available is it affordable is it affected those are the three things will be FDA's main goal is are you going to cause harm right that's what they're really being paid for are you going to cause harm not so much Arrigo determined that this is a very effective product Ricoh make sure you can hurt people and that's under drugs come around I was looking at the an article written get into that in the next hour because I think one of the things we can really talk about a lot is CBD cannabidiol the inner cannabinoid system and get into that and talk about how that inner plays with certain diets but as it turns out the pharmaceutical industry is really trying to get involved with that industry shredder figure out how to manipulate different enzymes one of the problems that we see all the time is that mother nature will do something and then the farm industry will need to have a patent and so they have to extract and manufacture a molecule and then put a drug name to it and say this is going to do this and we've seen that time and time again without question when pharmaceutical companies what I'm learning in the functional spaces mother nature since the do little bit better with right diet you take a whole client you take the whole molecule and not try and mess it up your body will figure out what to do with it work better than work but a great example a great example is that the Mediterranean diet for instance sure is filled with molecules called polyphenols follow polyphenols make vegetables colorful that make fruits colorful when you eat these polyphenols are poorly absorbed but they go to your colon where your own micro biome if you have a healthy micro biome will break down these molecules into beneficial anti-inflammatory antiaging molecules called Euro Lutherans and different things like that were learning more and more about that you cannot reproduce that with the drug right now because it's so complex were working with scientists down in South America and I there are several PhD's of come up and we go out to dinner and talk there like it is these micro biome or doing things that we can never reproduce in the lab is very deep it's really deep really deeply so and you know when you when you talk about pharmaceutical industry does tomatoes isolate that that's that's again they been doing for quite some time you hit on the fact that I had some experience in that pharmaceutical side I can still remember when they when they launched Roseann and Roseann is melatonin but it's an isolated melatonin and they told us it would have 14 times the affinity to the MT 192 receptors to induce sleep and even though they thought that little isolate was the trigger and actually underperformed it didn't do it any better then home melatonin did that's why I don't find it anymore and I believe that's why think that we can start seeing this whole shift back if we can just find a company that can bring some validity to it so that people can walk into a doctor's office and go look this study did show this it's unbiased this is what came out this is what happened we need to start doing that and if you're costing more money because with the prove that it's third-party analyze we need to make sure that we team up with companies like examine.com or consumer labs.com and make sure that everything comes to the things that are certified NSF certified and so on so yeah I don't really get a little deep here on under that aspect of that's I'm so passionate about functional medicine because there is real hope people go to their doctor and they get told no try this antidepressant try this anxiolytic take this you'll be fine take this pain medicine when young this year were making our first appearance I believe it to the IBM conference will be in San Antonio of the functional medicine conference yeah that place is filled with physicians and it grows by number every year that are just in the same position that you are and we meet more and more than every year medical met MDs DO those who have been trained in med school how to deal with disease and situations and more more they find it doesn't just exist in the pharmaceutical answers there are things beyond that their natural diet sleep whatever related that are going to help my patients feel better and then look at the opioid crisis that were doing with did you see in the news today that a police officer did a stop the woman handed him something and it appeared to be some sort of affordable fentanyl now and needing dark in the cop on a traffic stop oh because of that TOD by touching it by touching that's ridiculous I know it's crazy and I hate to interrupt the ship Patrick but did you know that dads up the fish that are coming out of the Puget Sound are contaminated with opioids I guess it's not filtered out during water treatment process so it's it's crazy nuts it's fit no fish no floundering new finfish their head up if you want to double down you have yourself some puffer fish sushi yeah you go to the tocsin or the fat know it's going to get you you can catch all your fish with a narco net pay that's the end of the first hour of the get check project things were hanging out we will check up with you here in about five minutes is five and I guess this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun career spoony Townhall.com, as the Senate debates the green new deal the biggest disagreement appears to be over exactly what is in the Democratic plan and say the bill seeks to turn the country into a socialist state minority leader Chuck Schumer and says those concerns are way overblown they exaggerate they tell Miss truths but Sen. Mitch McConnell says there's only one green thing about the green new deal the huge unprecedented pile of middle-class families money the Democrats are itching itching to grab McConnell's promising ascetic boat soon on the green new deal but I knew Capitol Hill former Florida police officer facing up to life in prison after being convicted in the fatal shooting of a black motorist whose car is broken down along an Interstate 41-year-old Newman Roger shot 31-year-old Cory Jones in October 2015 an American journalist detained in and then deported from Venezuela County windowless fleet several hours late and deported back to the US executives at his Miami-based TV station and union representatives went in hundred 24-1 in foyer's most recently working as a freelance stylist for ABC affiliate local 10 years in Miami correspondence area shackling KID says it's the worst she's ever seen the Alabama Gov. talking about the massive destruction caused by the tornadoes it pummeled Lee County last weekend is truly tragic is nothing but splint was left to think size all broken up you talk about the loss of buildings and homes and livelihoods shelf this is horrendous devastation the death toll in the small town of Beauregard stands at 23 heavy losses on Wall Street the downtown 232 points more on the stories@townhall.com mold is a better way take the pain out of ordering your diabetic testing supplies with diet Thrive diatribe ships the testing supplies you need directly to you when you need them best of all with plans starting as low as eight dollars a month diatribe is probably going to cost you less than what you're paying today diatribe is so convinced that you love their service they're offering your first month of supplies free simply type the Kodak DOC and checkout diet Thrive.com that's DIA Thrive.com never forgotten apparel is more than just the premium women's and men's clothing line it's a movement to remind us to wear American-made and serve those who serve us our heroes never forgotten apparel gives 20% of their total sales to nonprofits that support homeless veterans and off-duty firefighters and 50% to individual veterans and firefighters in need nationwide checkout never forgotten apparel.com use promo code Matt and ATT and get 15% off your purchase have you done it did you catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror I'm I'm one of those people you don't want to see naked IBM most of us but I mean you look in your gonna die I know I get to whatever you call it's horrible hey that's Doc Townsend and Brad Staggs to tell you about a different way to shed those pounds this is brand-new technically been around for a couple years or so it was based on research from the University of California that said there is a molecule called OEA that's found naturally in your body produces it in the Mediterranean diet that when taken concentrated amounts it will actually make you feel fuller and boost your metabolism I lost about 10 pounds so far is a mere amazing ballet school company said we can take this to market to make this great product that will help you it's called grid you zone our IDU zone.com are IDUs zone.com Brad's work does work for Brad's work for me countless other people go to read you zone.com and try today you're going to love it read you zone.com remember that our IDU zone.com all rights back for our number two they have not kicked us off the gut check project try design will receive the over under I'm seeing these guys exchange money over here I buy yeah I got a 14 seconds hey I just heard an ad for rigid zones like we did the last half hour and the person doing that live raid was the late Doc Thompson want to give a big shout out to him and do all of the crew here at spoony Patrick Ron Tom thank you so much for having us this is when I was in the books is been a lot of fun so far is a lot of fun and this is this is one of the essays will reset in the last hour the rising tide lifts all ships I really want to see these guys succeed there the really busted the tail to get out there something more important in a state if the people I see what you look like you know I met the frog is very handsome but I think that appreciating the TV as well you can get a Facebook and go to this many radio paging that I turn to page and it streaming live there and I going watch the video like it – it's pretty fun not to mention Nicholas on speaker and also in iHeartRadio dealership Patrick I think is good there we were just talking between the sets about how to get more views and you imagine more nudity and Shepherd has the air America was a male model so was the nudity our CEO texted me and said thanks the Shanna Fisher mention my last name so shout out check Scott because when I think of validity I think I just got there we go yeah that's yet he shows A lot in all seriousness we do want to get back a little bit on-topic in terms of what were trying to do here for our first ever got check project and that is basically laid on the format what we can expect whenever you tune in each week to get a project because this this banter course you you may see both as you will almost always see Dr. Brown it is not going to be the cornerstone we will have some great guests on we will be talking about a bunch of the great topics from everything from research with stem cells to how to exercise to the cannabis industry to polyphenols to on and on and on various topics but today were going to basically let you put a strong idea in terms of who is Dr. Kenneth Brown and why is it that he's he's doing that so we left the last half hour talking little bit about bridging the gap between natural and medical science and is removed to the next half hour let's talk a little bit about what it means to examine some other serious systems that have been somewhat ignored in the body namely the ECS the Indo cannabinoid or cannabinoid system however you Mr. Burnett set tomato tomato so what do you want to say briefly you what we were talking and your super comfortable for Mike, I'm a little more nervous than the stuff I actually a background for me as a child I started growing up so being TV and radio and stuff so stressful but is really cool that your talk about what your dad taught you because your dad was in radio was yeah and unfortunately he died two years you yesterday to have your so shut out to him as payment cycle kept him everybody but he knew my dad loved and he was those who knew him quite well and we give a yeah good little moniker that he always said which is hey guys so for those who they knew him they they know that he did it take you to the radio station your tips well reluctantly asked that I like to put my hands on the turntables and I think that he was that each identity that too much but yeah he went to the radio station several times my dad my dad was in the meat rendering process so he would take me and I could play with the kidneys of cows why am I doing this he lead you to where you were when I was holding organs introducing you to the endocrine system of the renal cyst of an animal that's what you're playing with that the when I when I was a medical school it universe Nebraska they really want an oppressed family practice doctors to go to rural communities trip and so I spent three months at a rural community where the main industry was meatpacking and injuries what happened in these doctors were overworked and I'm 1/3 year med student and stuff that would come in I look back on that I just go hold the child that's a rough one it was rough yeah I am I remember were to get back to the CSO is a cool stuff but perhaps get to know us that share where I come from now Alecto not meet there were some of me to talk about meatpacking and Ike I speak Spanish in the very first hour mention my wife's Puerto Rican my mother's Argentinian we speak were bilingual home and I was working the emergency room Lexington Nebraska a woman came in pregnant water broke and I called the doctrine: is like I want to weigh in is a true visit and he said the name is like a loose liquor a schedule talk you through is like I'll be there doorbell major she's got this down if it happens before and she did she talk me through wash your hands and just like your mask is on backward camera.your names can let you cry but she didn't have an accident but that's is the one I defaulted so we did and that's what you're saying so props your dad prompted our Thompson proxy had add props to everyone that has taught us anything sure because it's got check radio or get your project is a project and we check our egos at the door and we just learn from everybody we did that's our goal so the ECS so we've we've heard of the digestive system we heard about the nervous system the skeletal system renal lung pulmonary whatever you want to call it why is the ECS new or is it new to us this is one of those things where you walk up and props to Christine Thiel of Alexa and all and Gabriel CEO Prolixin all for grabbing me and making me listen and not by me lunch and not taking me on a trip like you know we've I've had done with farm industries sure just call me out general information you need to know this and they threat a bunch of information like vomiting it was overwhelming and now I know why it is because we have discovered a system in our bodies called the Endo cannabinoid system the throughout your entire body but the reality is if you would think it and really simplify it links the immune system to the nervous system and right there two circles coming together that's where the ECS lives so although it does all kinds of crazy things if you have anything on your brain meaning anxiety all the way from anxiety to seizures it just sort of controls it and calls it down it's a traffic cop if you have anything in nerves like diabetic neuropathy or if you've got sciatic pain pain pain inwardly writing about this on KPMG health.com sure lots because I'm so blown away that I feel like I've been gifted the ability to learn about a system that now my colleagues know about our elaborate on that just a little better because you said were going to be writing about it but I do want to draw a good distinction here and not that other people don't put in the time for research because there's a lot of people after the do it but I will say that if if Dr. Brown it can end up putting any element into a level research to have something written it's because it's actually happened everything that you've done as long as I've known you is well I've read this about it let's find out if that's true and so that's really what KB MD health is all about is basically to spread the information good or bad about how something does may or may not work and so is is that something that you found somewhat inspiring to be able to dig in deep whenever you first started working with the CBD you if our member correctly like arms can see this works and find out what happens yeah so the first so what ended up happening is three years ago was appellee or fax which is conference I like in Austin and I was walked by the elixir tollbooth I got grabbed and I was being support information didn't know anything about it and I love the passion sure someone one thing that I will will always be drawn to his passion and so if you're passionate about anything those things I don't know about and working to bring those experts here yeah order bring essential oil exports and because I know about it and I want to learn and it says Snyder right is a essential oil exports just published a book on that were to bring probably her into talk about it because we want to sit there and make sure they were not leaving any stone unturned but there's only so much time in the day were working with multiple companies blah blah blah blah I have chosen to die on the hill of polyphenols trying to IBS IDD inflammatory bowel disease or payrolls also have colitis and autism those are my stakes in the ground because I feel like those are the ones that we can make a huge difference and quickly and there's natural ways to help all of those disease states so you you not the only physician to have success in helping someone utilize their ECS reactivating their ECS to help them through some of those diseases like inflammatory bowel disease but you're one of the very very few that I have seen who is been able to basically reach out with this patient population say would you like to try something a little bit more so I've seen the success stories I've seen them as they come through through in their own words describe a little bit about what it is that you been able to see as as a market success dynamic people take regimented dad biologic switcher are good drugs for people who are suffering but they have a regimen they normally take them added an interval what happened with some of those they began to use the polyphenols and activation of the CS so the patient population that I really really want to help that needs the help is the inflammatory bowel disease and anybody that has Crohn's and colitis understand that it's a completely disrupt your life the thing that people realize when you got issues you can't not use your gut Eric if you have a swollen ankle give doubt on your toe you'll just kind of bedridden for little bit you'll tough it out but your life whatever if you're stuck in traffic and you have ulcerative colitis and the people that have that they get structure this studio the one drawback to the old spoony studio here and I'm looking at chef Patrick as I want him to move the studios that happens to be I'm not I'm not much of a commuter in the poor pilot therefore if you meet the Mike okay well it's it's not so much that it's just that III literally think like that because that's what my patients tell me like I have to drive from X to Y it's an hour commute I have ulcerative colitis and Crohn's once I get in my own head literally going to prove myself right and then I have to get off turn around call my boss when I hear that I just code that is that is not good that is disastrous that will disrupt anybody's life if your belly hurts to get tougher through that's one thing but when it when your bowel is in control of you we gotta figure something out so one of the processes that actually does that is also the proctitis for instance it's also proctitis is when your body attacks your own: and it creates issues where it gets irritated and then you don't have a lot of control well recently I've been we been working with a we just did I just love the fact that we have all these great partners Brandon Allen of Alan pharmacy and detonate direct air company finds that supercool guy was like listen man can you make me these can you take this CBD oil I'm having so much success with make some suppositories let's try out wannabe publishing is that it's incredible it's it's good it's great wherever having success attention you bring him up because in a metropolitan area of over 7 million people in the DFW area he is one of two I believe one of two of all the pharmacist that is recognized as a functional medicine pharmacist he actually is trained in the realm of looking beyond what his own industry is built around moving pharmaceuticals which I think is amazing he is he is not he's on the other hand he's he has the referrals from the physicians and he's paring what he believes to be the correct prescription but augmenting that prescription with the right OTCs or supplements I can help his customers feel better so that that comes up to the hope thing sure so we had mentioned earlier our one row or two I literally and I feel horrible about this I will get stacks patient data from somebody that says I heard you on this podcast this is my these are my medical records can you make a recommendation just like holy cow I can make so many recommendations right this is your part of the system that kinda got a little bit to get labeled right and I think the problem is you get labeled so Brandon or Brendan Allen or any other functional pharmacist or any other functional chiropractor functional MD anybody but I at least liked about the functional aspect is that you take a step back your immaculate believe anything else is been said let me just listen that's how most of it starts just listen what's going on I've learned and what I love is I just had a patient in and he was teaching me because his daughter went through something and he was explaining this and that I was like I am I am unfamiliar with this disease teach me and it was fascinating basing made appointment and I'm better and better for Brian and this is the whole concept of let's all learn from each other attract welding on and and applying that so it said teaching that you say that at the aspect of functional and in using LTC's or supplements to to find out where they fit in with our 20 oh dear your own first baby we we've found through Brandy we had lots of feedback of people who've had stories not like what I thought that we would find out we have to like it we would have great success helping people find bloating relief but some of the stories that have come in our how bad they been impacted by their gut distress very similar to what you described with the other ulcerative colitis patient whose driving in traffic yes you know I'm sorry to interrupt but it's a fascinating to me because when I treat the but I treat the people you know the the appropriate person takes our products we really do change locks crazy it's crazy and so what I'm seeing there then of course what note there is the business side of it where we have to make sure that we got when we got 20 some employees now were doing all the stuff like that you know we still have to note to make the money to pay all that but I show up every day and I just have people shake my hand to thank you and I love that that's that's the sole reason why this thing even exists the sinkhole doctrine until no matter what were doing right and whether it's got CD or the KVM DCB the oil it it all comes back to one thing we knocked down the wall Brian and I hope other people discover other polyphenol combinations I hope the ridges own realizes that there beyond weight loss they can crush it with doing other things because it functions on the Indo cannabinoid receptors in J your purring knows that he's like I know he's a smart dude and Dr. J. Partner Martin D hat and it's just so exciting but it's one of those things were of course we always talk about like this death by a thousand cuts sure you don't make the main thing the main thing some of the great philosopher Logsdon yeah made that up MMA champion backlog. I don't know why Ricardo is not doing a black belt but that's a whole separate discussion so one of the things that I'm kind of interviews I've always been into jujitsu I got a got multiple friends Ricardo a Brill you demand to just give Mike is black but will you let's get this over with you happier person anyway not only not well so the discovery about 20 on its launch obviously goes back to trying to find better answers and then you've mentioned Christina licks in on the course gave and in Lake Harrison and Chris who song when we think about the influence they've had in terms of what lakes and all and then ultimately your high-grade CBD oil with a regimented application with your patients has turned into good benefits and that led all the way to you having your own label why did you decide this was something that you knew that you wanted to do what I have the physician recommended product to complement what you are doing or attempting to do with a all-natural polyphenol but it happened that had the fit together so will start back with the resulting Palio effects of a case wasn't cheap but it like retail price Give it away patients came back said I'm better what you better with it sounded I member you saying I don't believe what I'm hearing by literally till I called her out I said you know what I love your enthusiasm I love your passion will buy a case can just send it to my office and I literally just gave it the patient's right and it was $240 a bottle that she is not true we walked home that day that it's a know I had it right I think I signed up for over I drove you home so after that I realize okay this is this is exactly what this is all about our message our messages to do the right thing and do it for the right reasons so I realize that this is a biblical minister look at the science that went almost a full year of just research never even contacted them again and shockingly when you start diving deep there is a Han of research out there that nobody knows about it for so I got my little ace in the hole that will finally any any hidden article change amazing she's amazing and then the discovery that polyphenols actually augment your own endo- cannabinoid system by calling down the enzymes that break it down so this is where everybody starts going down rabbit holes all notices this you have that I'm talking to you have an Endo cannabinoid system ECS just like your digestive system and your body produces and designs that actually destroy your old molecules to help your and a cannabinoid system and it does this in times of stress what stop and think about this for second if you're not sleeping well if you're eating a bad diet the Western diet if you're chronically under stress if you're driving from Plano to Fort Worth it's not that far. I commute from Houston sometimes are lost forever have to be can take a helicopter to work that helicopters a 10-year-old Hyundai so if you were going through this living here then your body ramps up the enzyme that breaks down your own special molecules called Endo cannabinoids those Endo cannabinoids work like a traffic cop they sit on the opposite side of every other neurotransmitter being produced so it gets a little complex but if you think of it this way when you feel pleasure it's because dopamine jumps from point A to point B dopamine no good feel good that's also why addiction happens bills good gambling feels good to do some drugs will go to do alcohol feels good that's the feel-good serotonin is a happy one I'm serotonin hops over what the end of cannabinoid system does is it works like a traffic cop on the other side is like what way too much dopamine you are enjoying yourself too much ease of sidelining the chillout it's a traffic cop and it calls it down well what ends up happening is when you have a stressful lifestyle the enzymes rake that Malik date they tell the traffic cop to go home right and then you seek reasons to fill those gaps and that leads into a total spiral so that's how come the end of cannabinoid system is so important ever is making a really complex and it is super complex so to put in perspective I've been trying to soul licks at all so I have we have our own CBD elixir always been very gracious with us and they want me to do a whole webinar and do all the stuff that I've been trying to figure out how to do it and then I realize that actions by some brought up yesterday all traffic on I was like hey I have a I think is three levels to this I think that that is whoever you talk to got real talk in different levels white belt level purple belt black belt my son yesterday just goes to treat at the trunk explain it and then you can just keep going out as far as you want that's brilliant that's were to do so to Dave and company that's the science it's it's basic but were I mean you can get it deep into the weeds as you want it is so fascinating just like a neurologist would talk to you about the brain they would just sit there just to the brain makes you think rider to talk about parts of the brain the middle of the hippocampus hippocampus the cerebellum does this not problem its ascent stuffed in a cannabinoid system can go that deep and as I'm learning I'm learning to realize that oh it comes down to this we need to allow our body to produce its own system it's not that complex and once I realize that the molecules are trying to heal can actually stop the destruction that stops the person that sends the traffic cop home that like okay that's one having some success that's one crushing it that's why we need to do more of this right so well but see we got about 36 left in this half-hour and we can hit on a lot more about the ECS polyphenols will talk about that one type of movies not really, people have yeah we had to think of to Nancy weird just like me it looks like you're losing I am losing weight I am losing my lost about 10 pounds how are you doing it funny name but I done it with review zone RAD use zone.com and the stuff works it's you get it all that the molecule this and that found in that all I can tell you is it it's a it makes you feel full and it keeps your mind off of wanting to overeat and also boost your metabolism if you're done and more guy try it today it's gonna work for you like his work for Brad and countless other people read you zone.com are IDUs zone.com are you tired of high cable TV rates sign up for dish today and get a $500 bonus offer while supplies last loss locking your price for two years guaranteed call all-American – your dish authorized retailer now 800-570-6630 800-570-6630 that's 800-570-6630 authors required critical occasion 20 from early termination fee any Automator friction supply call for details have you done it you catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror I'm I'm one of those people you don't want to see naked IBM most of us but I mean you look and you're going to die I don't get whatever all it's horrible hey that's Doc Townsend and Brad Staggs to tell you about a different way to shed those pounds this is brand-new technically been around for a couple years or so it was based on research from the University of California that said there is a molecule called OEA that's found naturally in your body produces it in the Mediterranean diet that when taken in concentrated amounts it will actually make you feel fuller and boost your metabolism I lost about 10 pounds so far is a mere amazing Valley school company said we can take this to market to make this great product that will help you it's called would you zone our IDU zone.com are IDUs zone.com Brad's work does work for Brad's work for me countless other people go to read you zone.com and try today you're gonna love it read you zone.com remember that our IDU zone.com good morning good morning it was kind of the chemical here last few days of this is the gut check project coming from you for coming to you from Pforzheim Eric Rager I am joined by your permanent host Dr. Kim Brown and that we in our last half-hour of the very first ever episode of the gut check project items of our thoughts and what for my very first radio show we've we've cruised through an hour and 1/2 it was 15 minutes with there's a lot on our brains have we talked have even said and think will listen with you the click the recap so what we did over the last hour and half as we talked over the bow Dr. Brown he is a board-certified gastroenterologist is incredibly interested in bridging the gap and when that means essentially and tell me if I'm wrong is it you want to find the good things and the bad you can discover both in medical and natural science and help guide people to solutions that are going to work for them both to eliminate as many possible side effects as possible yet delivering relief and ultimately when people feel good they feel happy and that's ultimately what Rafter it's funny you say that because we we have this thing were insane bridging the gap every one of my partners want people to feel good Trinity and feel healthy every doctor that I collaborate with wants people to feel good and feel healthy there just probably two well the reality is the information stop presented to them not memorizing way right and that's what we need to do that's what I mean by bridging the gap need to present the information in a way because the all my partners in my office and my practice in my group the doctors that I collaborate with the surgeons I use that primary care doctors I work with every single one of them once the same thing for their patients they want their patients to get better so we are talking last hour about why you think that the functional medicine movement is growing and I think it's growing because of information purely information to be on the Internet to do this but the reality is I encourage you to talk to your doctor and say hey heard this incredible show and spoony radios the biggest thing that's ever happened to hear Joe Rogan's coming on soon but the but the reality is that a lot of patients I think are scared to talk and we always do is change the movement we can make everybody a functional doctor without question what a functional doctor really does is they just stop listen don't judge and say how do we change this through lifestyle by and that that is how to bridge the gap more more think about it I want to have the science ultimately I'm very happy doing research I really want to see hate does this work can we come up with X, Y, and Z in a natural way you tell me in in the past that one of the things that you felt like it was allowing people to basically perceive the natural movement growing is in it was the lack of of exposure it wasn't that people didn't want to hop on board it was a lack of exposure and if you look at the amount of and it is what is inside good bad or indifferent it's just money the pharmaceutical industry has money when you have money you use it to your advantage and you should because your business but from that perspective when you have the money you can find the studies and when you have things are like a drug that can be pending or in isolated things that can only be packaged and they aren't necessarily natural but now you have something that's proprietary and I can be protected and that's were that's why money back things like that and often times people don't turn to a natural solution may be because there's not enough money to show all the research it's actually gone into the natural side of things and things will get discovered because there is not a money train back there pushing that information is done without prejudice it's done without intent it's just it's just research but we are were shifting back to the natural answers so will so I give a couple examples are when we first launched are trying to went down to the American College of gastroenterology where I've given lectures at where I feel like I'm got friends and it's the largest gastroenterology conference booth people are coming up and we had some small studies small according to them because were talking to people from Harvard and Johns Hopkins and so on and they make a living by doing a study to make a living by getting grant money from his drug companies in Solon and only if you remember but there was the doctor that came up really cool don't know where he was from and he goes you know I love your idea if you had data on this I would be all the right and we were still raising money to do this company and I said you invest give me $250,000 I guaranteed that I'll have that data for you and that you will have a stake in the company will be able to do this is what now just do a like to see but I just Roger set Takes money my friend and I'm so confident that we can do that and I remember I went to dinner one night and actions company store digressed quickly so I did multiple other studies besides those I faction study one of them was the ideal of inflammatory bowel disease really want fix that problem Crohn's and colitis so there was a dinner at a nice steakhouse here in Dallas and then when I showed up right as I always do tend to show plates and working shut up little bit lately put me the waiter grabbing probing the very front of the room which I don't like being more of a factor in Canada and it was April 1 didn't put the tutor together chair and the guy speaking of the professor therewith that they had brought in from some other university was looking at me the whole time going do you understand and like yelling and I like what I biases singling me out this is nuts and I ordered the over whatever stage the usual stuff to get a steakhouse and they brought me dry fish dry salad in the water I ordered one like that you got my order wrong and as I start to get more upset will the guy was like is everything fine and I was okay this is nuts I did this study and the guy I know the guy was part of the study Frank Africa lost it by little irritable at this point because my service was bad like look man what you put up there is a is a grab for it showed patient satisfaction but what they allowed the patients to do was are you extremely better way better make a better daughter Laura everything is all good that you have others that yeah so you could get you to get moving on this regardless it is a it was a phase 4 study which is more of a mark the start date so I get it's a total stacked deck hotel lost it I said that I was like report of the study price of the study and know exactly what the questionnaire was fine I thought it was hilarious from the very beginning of the phase for now I live in a glass house I did except the check to do that studies show I get it but that just tells me where it's going what's really funny is after that I kind of lost it and I got up and walked out like a man out of stake glass wine salad what's going on like oh we were informed that you are recovering alcoholic your kosher gluten-free dairy sensitive and just made off about 10 of the things know it who who who said that rightly pointed in my staff was in the restaurant that got there earlier was April 1 April Fools' Day I was the fool I will play well but the poor professor the visiting professors like wow if he went 00 and the sellers death is all hard of hearing the funny guy kept yelling at me she really enunciating his words what I contact so the deaf celiac dairy and tolerant as a jerk he is really anger is like surveys but the point that you will present data right there's two sides the story and that's all I want to do is I want to present the data unnatural stone we've got were part of several or of couple entrepreneur health groups and I think that some people have some rate anecdotal data on certain things at work right I would love to sit there and say yes absolutely let's see if this works let's a challenge writing the natural space a lot of times people simply just want to say look I know that this is worked with X, Y, and Z patients I just simply don't have the funds to produce a reproducible study I don't have the funds to bring somebody through so that I can have a biostatistician prove that my concept my application it will actually work in another setting and I believe them when they tell me that and that's their limitation and it's exactly what you told that Dr. Hunter ACG it's I need 1/4 million dollars to prove this is do you have that yeah exactly and the beauty of the studies that we did without trying to is that there were unadulterated data right and so we did that we did the data first third-party bio stats and then we headed statistician look at it and and she's the one that said look at this is real skills it's your work even though it's not a 50,000 person study your P value meaning the likelihood of it happening by chance is so low that if you put 100 people in thousand 10,000 you get the same numbers right which is what a good statistician will do and shut off to her at UT Southwestern rightly this is no joke no joke and that this is all funded by me at the time because we had no company nothing so since then we've maintained the same numbers right which is exactly what she said bye so now I feel confident that let's look at some stuff attire the right person to do it let's set up the right study and you don't need what the FDA wants which is we need to prove it safety these with the beauty of the functional medicine world that these products have already been taken by millions and millions and millions of people oh great story back today just launched out of England omega-3 has been shown in a study to help with musculoskeletal injury interesting so came out and it talked about the inflammatory process right how does that happen they did have a mechanism of action omega-3 fatty acid right what would a fatty acid body of fatty acid gets converted to an end of mind and to AG what does that happen to affect Dr. Brown that is used to build your own Endo cannabinoids have you ever looked into the Indo cannabinoid system so when you start looking at scientists that our figure out how to augment that system omega-3's DHA fatty acids like that help your body to do this why are these molecules study will come out little say oh it looks like fish oil doesn't help with heart knowing the week later some of you guess it does help with heart disease right I can tell you to help your brain right I can show you a molecular level if you're taking the right one sure I can also tell you that I've had friends that have been in the industry and said that it is a scary industry will have it on top of this some of the studies and you had this discussion several weeks ago some of the studies that people have tried to prove or disprove in terms of what supplements may or may not work natural or otherwise might actually be tainted when the testing agency doesn't even know what they may been using might not actually been the active ingredient in terms of what they were using so having supplements if you are someone who uses supplements having a supplement that is certified to be exactly what is in their and have a authenticated certificate of authenticity or ACOA by 1/3 party to show that what is on the label is actually what is in the container is very very important you may find a study where someone says that omega-3 did X, Y, and Z or then another follow-up study says no it doesn't now were led to believe that there could be some problems with people thinking that they are testing a particular supple man OR an element and looking back on it they may not have had the correct active ingredient naked that could apply to any number of various supplements as well oh hundred percent and we don't know if the ghosting is right also things are still lots of question sure the fact that we have these things that are readily available in multiple companies producing and yet sciences probably not were related to be now it's wide open field wide open you give me you give me a little bit of scratch and working on working around down there or let's let the head if the hat and their member box 10 give proper supplements to people proper supplements meaning those that are vetted to help you protect your brain sleep protect your gut the more people come to us and say hey we have this right I have something called redo zone right can you tell me if this action helps with weight loss know it now why or why not what's cool about ridges on his and his I just avenged a fan of the company in the J what's cool about that is that they they did the studies right if you don't CEOs will be like yeah 67 years ago right but sit behind the eight ball this entire time that's how hard I know exactly what it's like when you have a company here I have investors I want to pay back my investors as quickly as possible what else want to do right build the company and would do that I know the licks all the reason why my name this brand KB MD is on Alexa laws because I did my homework on the company and Dave and company they've done everything on the up and up the get certificate of analysis they can show me everything there's a reason to do things the right way is a reason to do so is Taco Bell but I what it would what would that mean that with your experience in doing clinical trials and gathering clinical data that only we are trying to live in in in the various polyphenols that didn't make it in this in this box you did just run with something that somebody said work he actually tested to find out so what does that mean in terms of and just try to think of the landscape here not every state is well and and wide open with allowing CBD to be used in the same way that if you were to compare one state that allows medical and recreational marijuana to one that allows nothing and as if you were to compare Utah and in California currently right now politically they are completely different in the ways they observe that industry so as a medical doctor knowing you seen real results one the ambitions I've heard you talk about is being able to put clinical data behind something like a CBD as supplementation because as you call it is it truly is a micronutrient to give to people to help them find relief and basically apply to disease never in Canada like it's a treat disease but apply it to a disease or symptom and then even it happens to be combined with the polyphenol whether or not it happens to be your highest purity brand of KB the CBD or polyphenols don't necessarily have to come from 20 oh but we just want to put together the data that people can use to find out how they can find relief and feel better so what is that mean to you to be able to put critical data behind something like a BDC beauty so I want to do is I just want to clear up everything so this is not a disease state right well just educate and these are armed I'm looking at the list of articles that we have coming out shortly one of them that it would be really proud of it as a guest neurologist I don't do with a whole lot but I had I sorta had the hero's journey happened to me when I had a young man that was brought in to be by his mother because he had extreme or he was on the extreme side of the autism spectrum disorder. And she noted that whenever his belly would act up he would become at as he aged it was easier to handle it with little but now I'm an adult Dr. 1718 years old -1718-year-old young man who's hard to control and when we started to fix his gut everything started get better when we had CBD to next thing I know she likes best is been 10 years okay I cannot ignore this right this is a this is something that has to get out there I'm not an autism specialist working to bring autism specialists on but I do have people to integrate research and we've got a huge very high level of Reddit so this should be the same formula it would be used it would be these are simple but very high level but not something for the lay public this is something to sit with a couple PhD's in hand and mingled this is the mechanism of action of how polyphenols affected and how cannabidiol affects the receptors and onto the spectrum disorder not treating anything right you look at the data right you look at the mechanism of action and this is how I've always been with everybody I brought up essential oils last week I just have not had the time to look at that trip but if you can tell me if physiologic reason why that works so well beautiful right I'll at least look at it and that's how everything has to be approached in life not stick your head in the sand and ignore what's going on it's so interesting because medicine is an industry because it is an industry now but it began as a practice and that practice was to find innovation to find new ways to help people who are hurt and it's so strange that now if you get admitted to med school that you go and basically have a road education and you are fed the didactics right and then by the time you're out it's almost prohibited to think outside the box so innovation for many people becomes stymied stifled that you don't really keep exploring is a little bit of why you and other physicians who looked beyond the just the regular stuff you get noticed because you're willing to look outside and that's renovation really think that's where everything is if you look at the history of medicine there's always somebody that sees just outside the box and goes oh to get my history completely wrong or this is not my thing George Washington Lincoln Johns Hopkins Johns Hopkins Johns Hopkins and two other surgeons late 1800s prior to that surgery was born bear right if you had something wrong it was to get you drunk my gag but if you hold down or to cut your Lego and then it was discovered the lidocaine style molecule well there is a. And if you read this it's really fascinating where lidocaine and that cocaine are molecularly similar and then it was determined that cocaine can be used as an anesthetic and to decrease blood flow to certain areas and improve things so there's like a decade-long. Where every resident was completely coked up there just working 24 seven and Glidden realized that this was actually going on and that was the era of the first dance club I sent to stickers doing surgery over John Tapia's associate so so many things came about that so if you look at the if you look at the surgical waiting room glow sticks were developed pacifiers were developed it was it wasn't just okay anyway so being innovative like that then they develop bupivacaine developed all these other change or block nerves right what was through this process and then suddenly cocaine becomes this thing over here but really the cocoa lead has benefits right in the country Peru they know that to make tea out of the do things like that but it's at the history of medicine let's get back to the guy that figured out that ulcers could be caused by bacterial info back to yeah that's exactly the same paradigm shift that took place with the bacterial overgrowth you've got a guy that was convinced an Australian astrologist that was convinced that ulcers were not your hand was because he was stressed it was because you just strung out you know you got a bad marriage know you have a bacteria and he had to prove it by almost dying this is the time and time again like there are doctors that have this belief that have literally Louis Pasteur that have put everything on the line to do it I did a podcast last two I admired and I realize the people I really admire other ones that put their life on the line for their belief right okay who you are or what it is passion passion they were committed let's talk a bit about what to expect is what where were getting close to winding down on our very first full day show of the gut check project and is on later up because some passenger to the radio thing we got we have shown Patrick am sorry so you know I am entered about eight years ago 90 hail into the medical marijuana/CBD side of the business I and at so I been looking for a product that you know might my children have a condition called do you mind if I believe I can talk other products or if you read up on my shows well today so but can we talk about the difference I mean where does CBD come in on the second of It asked if TTT HVAC BD CBG CBN all of these components right and people get confused so why the big big big roadblocks I run into is all I can take out a high okay is that something that you had to address any because it really has nothing to do with it's not a we call it a.m. psychoactive psychoactive psychoactive I will I will change that I will say it's not intoxicating that's true because it's extremely psychoactive because it actually works on the receptors in the brain and that's really what it does well yeah and so Texas is notes it's not thought Colorado and California haven't they been doing this for a long time so I do deal with this a lot and this is why think of we science this up a little bit and we explain it but we have to do it the way that my son described dude is a trunk it's it's a traffic cop then you get into to AGN amide then you didn't see me wants to be to them to get into people or gamma you can GRP be one doing it really geeky without any deep geeky geeky and it's just like any other system in the body but you might have a right to put it in perspective I remember when I did my internal medicine training you have Harrison's internal medicine book it's this that the state it's it's a big thick book and one of my professors in medical school just kinda laughed when you ask a question that goes does it it's in Harrison's right is where it goes right after the chapter on how to fix your Harley I and you should let go this is also the same Prof. that when those he would let you this is old school medical school were they to be little more abusive and did away with the fraternity it was so you can just see this clinical professor would like load up different things so you do these didactic grounds we go around as a group and then it be like it oh no Mr. Brown what would you do for this patient and say something like is like you to fill this out and it would be an application to McDonald's in front of the patient that's your Socratic method there it is or or he would be would pull out of the oxygen things that clearly your hypoxic solvent while the rest of us discussed medicine well Harrison's was distant and had everything will then guess what I become a fellow and I'm only studying the gastrointestinal tract and I have an encyclopedia for books that fit right so it took me three years of internal medicine training three years of G.I. and I still consider myself a lumen all just meaning I like to: the not like the stomach I'm not I admittedly will defer the pancreas to my partners Goldschmidt in Sacramento before the liver to our other partners that are hepatology's chair and then the cannabinoid system the same way I want to become an Endo Canada knowledges the world needs it and that's not a joke the world needs a a a study of Indo cam analogy there would be associated with the medical didactic training yet so I agree I will be your number one student out of your listening every week Beth it's really listening every week because you're behind the window anyway class to check you over there and then you were to talk about the will of this we got two minutes left for two hours there's few things we'll talk about here number one are just coming up number one our get aside next week we will have a canvas expert from the new medical legal use of the marijuana in Oklahoma to talk about that industry and the research as well as what it's like to basically forge this new industry is a lot of people what I love about that is that he has Texans going up with no knowledge no knowledge at all sodium a and and it's not it's not about going up there to do to party it really is about going up there to educate and that's really where they're coming from and that's the come down and visit with us next week and then the week the week after that we may end up having a someone who's in fitness not long from now were going to have a stem cell expert join us as well as a someone who's helped with the recent Farmville Joy Beckerman should become in Denver Colorado to the to visit with us as well so we we keep buying them up go to KB MD health.com and check out gut check project if you have any suggestions on people you'd like to see on the program and get back to this is not just a CBD or a polyphenol felt this is a sparely this is a life and fitness show remember nothing is off the table were go sit down with Chef Patrick and talk about different recipes how to make things I've met with a Nightingale geeky in the food side for you there would you like that the chemistry food when I was on with Dr. Thompson we actually talk about that like I want to say look if you read this you have your list and that's antiaging molecule we can geek out with that there is other chefs have approached me though I can't talk about Quito diet will, like this is beautiful work like every swimming towards us is vital exciting right they deftly argues there there is a lot in the landscape to cover plan on having several several shows so we want to get as much as we possibly can how can people reach out to us to give us ideas they can always go to KB MD health.com we have a connect page you can pan down and there's all kind of topics if you don't happen to get the right response just know the website is only about a week old there's going to be some bugs in there so keep trying we will get back to it is most important please everyone share the word here we are trying to support this station thanks so much for joining us on the first ever got Jack Jack it is this is the only 24 hour take anywhere platforms dedicated to food and fun clear spooked the ivories by bundling home and auto with progressive file admiring the reality is send my condolences this there is in my engine coming situations I noted the kids went to ordering Whataburger online what you want double meat with cheese cool with grilled jalapenos who get a lots of add-ons from everyone this good thing you can order online and see favorites for next time good thing there is Whataburger
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