After the JAG Corps: Navigating Your Career Progression: Recent Episodes
Tom Welsh
A podcast to assist judge advocates separating or retiring from the military by providing information on post-service opportunities, job search strategies, and other resources as they navigate the transition to civilian employment.
As a probationary employee with the Navy Office of General Counsel in 2025, Joe was informed he would likely be laid off as part of the Trump Administration’s efforts to curb the size of the Federal Government. When offered deferred resignation, Joe saw it as an opportunity to join private practice to enable him to return to doing the things he enjoyed doing as a Marine Corps JAG, including Legal Assistance and Litigation.
In this episode, Joe takes us through his journey, including waving into the Virginia bar.
Joe mentions a few of Slack-type groups that he finds helpful, including:
- LawyerSmack (sidebar.net), a private community for attorneys interested in discussing practice-related issues with their peers in real time. ($199/year);
- Best Era (https://bestera.com/)($365/year).
- InnerCircle (inner circle.ernietheattorney.net/feed), which deals with legal tech issues.
In this episode, Holly Cook takes us through her career progression from the Army JAG Corps to the American Bar Association where she continues serving and advocating on issues that are in the public interest.
Dean Korsak officially retired from the United States Air Force on August 1, 2024. Like many veterans, he started working on terminal leave as the General Counsel and Corporate Secretary for the Griffiss Institute, but is also an entrepreneur. For several years, Dean has been working to launch his own business, CAPY News, which will use AI trained on the Federal Rules of Evidence and intelligence analytics standards to authenticate "news" in an attempt to combat misinformation and disinformation. Dean can be found on LinkedIn.
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I had the great privilege of serving with Tim at GTMO. As my deputy, Tim ran the office, putting out fires, taking care and holding people accountable, and doing the other thankless tasks. But he was much more than that. He was a sounding board, an advisor, a fellow street hockey player, and a friend, not only to me, but my entire family. Tim has spent his legal career helping people, both in and out of the military. He continues that work as Director and Clinical Assistant Professor, Mason Veterans and Servicemembers Legal Clinic (M-VETS) at George Mason University School of Law. Tim's LinkedIn profile can be viewed at https://www.linkedin.com/in/timothy-macarthur-9b353282/.
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On July 2nd, I had the opportunity to reconnect with retired Commander Meredith Werner, who I had the privilege of meeting over 10 years ago. As you will hear, Meredith loves a good challenge, including retiring from the service while stationed overseas with NATO. Meredith takes us through the peaks and valleys of her career progression from military service to her current job as a professional staffer supporting the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee. Meredith's LinkedIn Profile can be viewed at https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredith-werner/.
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This week, Pat McGrath reminds us of the important role our significant others play in our transition to a post-military career. In his case, it came from his wife who would spend time looking at jobs on USAJOBS. We also talk about the things that he found helpful during his journey and life working at the Federal Communications Commission. Pat’s LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-m-mcgrath--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support
Most judge advocates begin their military legal careers immediately after law school or they transition to the JAG Corps via their respective service's funded legal education program. Today, however, we hear from an attorney who was earning his stripes at a big law firm in Pittsburgh, but, having grown up the son of an Army colonel, felt an obligation to serve. Brian spent four years in the U.S. Marine Corps before returning to private practice. From this vantage point, he shares his journey and offers insights to transitioning judge advocates. Brian's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-kluckman-012777107/.
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Mark Overberg spent 22 years in the Army and after a brief tenure with the Small Business Administration, returned as a civilian working with U.S. Army Retirement Services, the last 8+ years as its director. In today's episode, we talk about getting ready to leave the service, the things about which one should be thinking, and the resources available, including those at www.soldierforlife.army.mil/retirement. Mark's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-overberg/
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Catharine Parnell embodies all the attributes that makes a good JAG: a willingness to learn new areas of the law and then master them. The irony is that serving in the Army was not in her plans, but driven by other factors. She has continued this carpe diem attitude after leaving the military, which has led to her current position as a general counsel of a satellite technology company. Catharine is also a prolific writer about career progression issues on LinkedIn. You can find her profile at https://www.linkedin.com/in/catharine-m-parnell/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support
When I spoke to Tania Martin on Wednesday via Zoom, it was with a retired JAG who has transitioned to a part-time job after working full-time for a period of time after leaving the Corps. While emphasizing she works with great people with a good company, Tania was candid about still seeking something that provides her with the same level of fulfillment that serving in the Army JAG Corps for 30 years did. Most importantly, however, was her emphasis on having patience with the career progression process after leaving the military. Tania's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/tania-martin-5075a79/
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This morning, I catch up with my former shipmate, retired Navy captain judge advocate. In a wide-ranging conversation, Vida talks about her career progression from the Navy to the DoD Office of General Counsel and the Senior Executive Service as well as observations and experiences with job-seeking generally. Vida's LI profile can be accessed here.
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This podcast is focused on helping judge advocates plan their career pivot from serving in uniform to a career after the military. An underlying them is the need to plan. This week, however, is focused on carpe diem. As you will hear, Brendan Burke thought he would still be on active duty right now, but on a whim, he applied for a job that was of interest to him and the rest is history. The URL for his LI profile is https://www.linkedin.com/in/hbrendanburke/
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In this episode, Scotch Perdue, an attorney with the Fluor Corporation, opens up about the challenges and roadblocks he experienced in making the move to the corporate world, but also those who were incredibly helpful, and his efforts to strengthen the military law network inside the Association of Corporate Counsel with the establishment of a Military Veterans Affinity Group within the National Capital Region Chapter. The URL for Scotch's LinkedIn profile is https://www.linkedin.com/in/scotch-perdue/
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Today's guest is someone who truly seizes the day and follows his passion. Retiring in 2014, Dave did not begin focusing on his next career until he was done, ultimately working in compliance in higher education. However, it is what he has done in addition to his post-JAG career that is inspirational as it is impressive. Besides working full-time, Dave has written three fictional novels and is the producer of "Voices to Veterans," in which he records the histories of veterans from all eras and all branches of the military. To learn more about retired Navy JAG Dave Grogan, visit his website DavidEGrogan.com. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support
Captain Drew Henderson finished out in his career in San Diego, holding several jobs including as a Commanding Officer and Military Judge before retiring in 2015. His number one consideration in both his final duty stations and follow-on career were driven by geography, as his wife and young son lived in Los Angeles. As you will hear, Drew ultimately landed a position as Counsel with the Department of Defense Office of Hearings and Appeals in their satellite office in LA. Always great when good things happen to good people.--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support
In this episode, Sue Stewart shares her post-career journey that took her from her adopted home of San Diego, CA, up the coast to San Francisco, to serve as environmental counsel at Chevron before moving over to the biotechnology company Genentech. This journey has all the subplots that you have come to love in this podcast: great timing, the power of the network, and good things happening to good people. Sue's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/scstewart/.
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In this conversation, Alex Loh shares his journey from the civilian world straight into the Air Force Reserve. So, whereas I have had several guests who were former military officers who transitioned from active duty to a civilian attorney career, and had their perspective of what skills JAGs bring with them, Alex's perspective has been shaped by working in both worlds. Alex's LinkedIn bio can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lohalex/
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In this episode, I talk to U.S. Air Force veteran Josh Traeger who left active duty four years ago and moved to Traverse City, Michigan, where he opened his own law practice, True North Legal Group, which includes a division, The Military Defense Firm, dedicated to representing service members worldwide. In this wide-ranging conversation, we talk about what motivated him to leave the active component, the ups and downs of opening up a practice, and the ability to maintain a worldwide practice in today's technologically-advanced world. Josh's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-traeger-349ab01a5/
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In this episode, Genevieve Loutinsky shares how she took the experiences gained during almost 10 years in the Navy to become a member of the Operational Technology Law Unit with the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Genevieve's LinkedIn profile is located at https://www.linkedin.com/in/genevieve-l-064076192/
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In today's episode, I talk to Bob Liu who, thanks to a Skillbridge opportunity, got some exposure in working legal issues associated with a tech start-up and has ended up working at GitHub, a software development company. However, as you will hear, it was not necessarily an easy journey. In Fact, Bob was out of work for several months before landing his current gig, driving home once again that one needs to do his or her homework, endure disappointments, but remain optimistic, which Bob did. Bob's profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobertliu/
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In today's episode, Amanda Myers and I talk about our perspective journeys from the Navy JAG Corps to the U. S. Department of Veterans Affairs and U.S. Department of Commerce, respectively. Amanda's LinkedIn Profile can be accessed here.
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In this episode, I sit down with the Honorable (and a captain in the Navy Reserve) Rich Federico whose nomination to become a judge for the US Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit was confirmed by the U.S. Senate in December 2023. One of the few officers who every assignment on active duty and then in the Reserve Component was a litigation assignment, Judge Federico left active duty in 2015 and then served as a Federal public defender in Oregon and then in Kansas before becoming a Federal judge. A truly remarkable accomplishment for a true officer and a gentleman. Judge Federico's profile can be accessed here.
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This episode is about opportunity, timing, initiative, and a truly good fit. The tail end of Alex's career in the State of Washington's National Guard saw him working very closely with the Attorney General's office on some unique issues, including a pandemic, civil disturbances, and civil disobedience with the establishment of a purported autonomous zone in Seattle. So, with established relationships and some familiarity with state laws, governance, and how to get things done, as well as a desire to stay local, what do you do when they want to hire now but you will not retire until months later? Skillbridge, of course!
Alex's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-m-straub/.
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This week, I talk to James McGhee, who was a practicing attorney with plans to become a U.S. Attorney, decided to join the U.S. Air Force after a fateful hike with his brother up The Incline at Pike's Peak in Colorado Springs. James went onto serve just over four and one-half years before moving onto his current role as an employment and labor law attorney in Dallas, Texas. James's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-mcgehee/.
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This week we learn about Mark’s unplanned career as a lawyer. As a young soldier, Mark ended becoming a paralegal after the Army did away with his MOS, and then went to law school after a conversation with a JAG. After graduating he had no intention of coming back into the Army (going into private practice instead) until 9/11. He then went onto serve another 15 years. In retirement, Mark served in Government before moving onto his current corporate role. Mark’s profile is available on LinkedIn. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support
Post-military career progression is driven by a number of factors including geography, an individual member's financial requirements, area of expertise, and desires. In this instance, we hear from Brent Thompson whose career progression was driven predominantly by location, location, location. In this instance, Brent and his wife had purchased a house in a rural part of California. Yet, via informational interviews, networking, and the rise of remote working due to the pandemic, he landed a job with a firm out of Sacramento, California. Brent's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-thompson/
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We close out 2023 with Holly Taylor who enlisted in the Navy before earning her commission and retiring after 26 years of service. While in the Navy, Holly served as a storekeeper, legalman, as a security officer, and then in admin and HR. After leaving the service, Holly went back to school before joining Amazon, serving in Arizona and Alabama, before breast cancer forced her to focus on her health. Holly now serves as a virtual assistant, is active in the military transition field, and leadership coaching and consulting. Holly is a great example of the opportunities that await all of us as we leave military service. Holly’s LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/hollybrasheartaylor?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support
Yesterday, I had the opportunity to sit down with George Mathew, who talked about his post-military career progression, going from serving in the U.S. Air Force active component to Immigration and Customs Enforcement to USAID, and now to Lockheed Martin. George credits his experiences in the Air Force, including the great people for whom and with whom he worked, for his success. He also offers some great advice to transitioning JAGs as they try to determine what comes next. George's profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/george-m-300a391ba/
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Today, we hear from Luis Rodriguez who spent 43 years as a U.S. Army soldier until earlier this year. Luis now serves as an Associate Deputy General Counsel with the Army. In this conversation, we hear again about the importance of networking, networking, networking, other issues associated with entering Government Service, and even the mundane, but important administrative matters such as navigating post-military healthcare coverage. Luis's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/luis-o-rodriguez-14250b234/
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What do you get when you take a JAG who has always loved the outdoors, returns to Maine after six years on active duty, including time in Europe, and give him a window at his new law firm overlooking the water in Portland, and combine that with a tolerance for risk? The philosophical answer is never working a day in one's life. In this podcast, we hear from Chad Olcott, who serves as the director for Apogee Adventures (www.apogeeadventures.com) and founder, Parallel Adventures (parallel-adventures.com).
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Although our paths did not cross too many times while serving in the Navy JAG Corps, Ian Wexler and I had many common career experiences, including career challenges and duty stations. Ian's last assignment on active duty was as Director, Institute for International Legal Studies in Newport, RI. Following his retirement this past fall, Ian became Director, Institute for Security Governance in Monterey, CA.
DISCLAIMER: THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED BY IAN WEXLER IN THIS PODCAST ARE HIS PERSONAL VIEWS AND NOT THOSE OF THE INSTITUTE FOR SECURITY GOVERNANCE, THE DEFENSE SECURITY COOPERATION UNIVERSITY, THE DEFENSE SECURITY AGENCY, OR THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE.
Ian's biography can be found HERE while his LinkedIn profile can be accessed HERE.
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This week, I talk to Zach Prager who left active duty last October. I asked Zach to share his journey as he was someone who reached out to me because of my podcast and I wanted to hear how his career progression went. As you will hear, Zach went through a period of discernment during which he examined both corporate and government work, the latter which he ended up taking and is enjoying very much. Zach's profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/zprager/--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support
In this podcast, former legalman and retired LCDR Mark Blask tells us how he became the Mayor of his hometown of Little Falls, NY, how his experience in the Navy shaped his leadership, and is perspective that everything starts with relationships. By far one of the most charismatic individuals with whom I ever met, and someone I consider fortunate to call a friend, shares his insights and perspectives (as well as some humor). Blaskie's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-blask-a5323a262/.--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support
In his brief three year stint in the Army, Steve Coopersmith wore many hats, including as a legal assistance attorney, SJA and trial counsel. However, he credits being thrust into the position of running a Voluntary Income Tax Assistance Center as a formative experience that set him on a course that led to becoming a business dispute lawyer and running his own law firm. Steve's LinkedIn profile can be viewed at https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-coopersmith-5523a01/
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This morning, we hear from Scott Johnson, who retired from the Navy in 2017, and is now on his third job with his current role working for a private equity firm, which is also his longest stint. Scott is someone with whom I had many conversations about career progression long before the concept of a podcast came to mind and he has some well-developed thoughts on the chasm between an individual's military service and trying to break into the civilian workspace. Scott's LI profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottgjohnsonattorney/
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Although they will not admit it, every grown man who has seen Dennis Quaid in "The Rookie" got a tear in his eye when pitcher Jim Morris gets called up to the big leagues as a 35 year-old rookie. In this episode, we get to hear the JAG Corps version of this true story in which a washed-up 50+ year-old former college baseball player and career JAG, Captain Johnny Nilsen, gets the call from his favorite team, the San Diego Padres to apply for their Military Affairs advisor position that was opening up. Unlike the protagonist in the movie, however, Johnny Baseball had a big problem: he needed to be available to take the job in weeks and he had yet to even submit a retirement request. This episode has it all: West Virginia, Skillbridge, and America's pastime. Johnny Baseball's LinkedIn profile can be found here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnny-nilsen-b90962107/ Check it out!--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support
This week, Dave Coogan takes us through his journey from serving as a judge advocate to private practice in the City of Champions, Pittsburgh, PA. HE talks about the importance of having a five-year plan, of being deliberate in the job search, the importance of gathering intel about a firm's culture, and the value of the JAG Corps network. Dave's LI profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/davecoogan/.
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This week, I change course and talk to Lisa Lang, who enlisted in the Army after college, spent about 8 years on active duty, and then went to law school. Although not a former JAG, her experiences as an enlisted soldier and as a lawyer in private practice, government, and now education, may be beneficial to transitioning judge advocates. Lisa's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lawyerlisalang/
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Will Fischbach and I spent nearly 80 minutes talking about his life, schooling, his time as an Army JAG, private practice, and public service. While editing of our conversation I came to realize the relevance of everything we discussed: Will’s willingness to do anything that he was asked to do in the Army has shaped his approach to private practice in Phoenix, AZ; he is an attorney who is not afraid to take on various types of cases.--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support
As Ben Grimes will tell you, he never set out to be an attorney, but as a Blackhawk pilot who realized that continued service in the Army meant transitioning out of the cockpit to staff duty, decided to become the "staffiest"of all staff officers by becoming a JAG. A self-described "legal ethics geek," Ben then jumped at the opportunity to provide professional ethics advice to attorneys at the Department of Justice, a job which he held for almost seven years. However, realizing that he missed leading, Ben has now become a leadership coach with a focus on helping lawyers and firms break through dysfunction.
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My conversation today is with Joe Schrantz who articulates a reason why many of us join the service: to be part of a team. It is a desire that has shaped his entire life, from playing sports as a kid and in college to joining the Marine Corps to his work now as Vice President of Business Development at Dauntless Discovery, an e-discovery firm. Joe's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-schrantz/. To learn more about Dauntless Discovery, visit https://dauntlessdiscovery.com/.
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Today, we hear from LCDR Jordan Foley, an active-duty judge advocate and founder and CEO of Let's Chow, a 501(c)(3) that gives veterans thinking about going into the food truck or brick-and-mortar restaurant business the resources and space to discern whether the food service industry is for them and if so, gives them the funding to launch their business. This podcast is geared toward anyone thinking about starting or entering the non-profit world. Jordan's LinkedIn profile is located at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordan-j-foley-6b980818b/. To learn about Let's Chow, visit https://www.letschow.org/.
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In this episode, we hear from Ritesh Srivastava who served in the Navy JAG Corps for six years before moving onto private practice before serving as a trial attorney and now serving as a corporate attorney. Hat tip to my former shipmate, Gopi Nadella, for recommending me to sit down with Ritesh. Ritesh's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritesh-sri/
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In this episode, retired Navy Captain Alex Whitaker tells us how he ended up back at his alma mater in an administration role before eventually becoming the President of King University in Tennessee where he has been for the past 7 years. He also talks about the state of higher education today, its challenges and rewards. A great primer for any JAG (or non-JAG) who may be interested in pursuing a career in higher education when they leave the service. Alex's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexanderwhitaker4/.
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Last week, I had the opportunity to chat with retired Captain Dan D’Alesio, who made Jacksonville, FL, his home after retiring from the Navy in 1998. In this episode, Dan talks about his journey into and out of uniform, the things he has done and thought about doing in his second career, taking the Florida bar exam, and the retired Jax JAG community. Dan’s LI profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-j-d-alesio-jr-esq-2b702b21.--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support
In 17 years as a lawyer, Joanne Neighbors has done a lot. After serving in the Army JAG Corps for approximately seven and a half years, she then moved onto civil service for about 10 years before breaking into banking world. Join us as Joanne talks about her incredible journey and what she did to get here.
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This week, J. Lee Marsh recounts his journey from the United States Naval Academy, where he became enamored with the law, to submarines to the Navy JAG Corps and finally to becoming a judge in Florida. Judge Marsh's profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/j-lee-marsh-2991424/.
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This week, I sit down with Hank "Mongo" Molinengo, a Navy JAG Corps legend, who, as you will hear, did a lot scut work while on active duty. A true force of personality, Mongo served as the Navy JAGC's 06, which is a tombstone position, meaning that upon retirement, he was promoted to flag rank. Nonetheless, as you will hear, that did not help much when it came time to looking for post-service employment. (A lot of us generalists can probably identify with this.) Now retired and serving as a full-time grandfather, Mongo gives a candid assessment of his career progression.
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This week, I catch up with Matt Dursa, Chief Legal Counsel and Chief Compliance Officer with Darley, a Midwest company that provides training and material support to the Department of Defense and first responders. Matt takes us through his career progression from the Navy JAG Corps to working with Customs and Border Protection to Darley. Matt's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-dursa/.
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Jennifer Green had plans to become an in-house counsel somewhere until she accidentally sent her resume to a recruiter and what played out is an incredible account of career progression being like the proverbial box of chocolates. Listen closely as Jennifer talks about the clients she gets to represent as a plaintiff's attorney. You can hear the passion she has for her clients in her voice. Jennifer never envisioned herself here, but this is an example of what can happen when you surrender yourself to the process and interview for a job just to get your recruiter off your back. A must listen. Jennifer's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-green-63b124214/.
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Matt Bernstein, an Army Veteran and Partner at Shook, Hardy & Bacon L.L.P. in Miami, Florida, takes us through his career progression from the Active Component to a civilian practice, which was not his original plan. Matt talks about being humble, which includes a willingness to acknowledge what you do not know going into a new job as well as explaining why starting out at a lower position is neither a commentary on you as an attorney nor a bad thing. Matt's LinkedIn biography can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-bernstein-5340666/ or at his firm's web site, which is .
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This week is my conversation with Jessica Hernandez who, like many of us, made a career change, going from practicing law in New York City to figuring out what to do next when she married a Navy officer and relocated to Washington, DC. After some networking and exploring, Jessica ultimately decided to get into helping others by becoming a certified coach. Jessica has helped executives and lawyers find new work. From these experiences, Jessica has a great seat to share insight into the transition process. If you are in the middle of the transition right now and need a pick me up, then I encourage you to listen to this episode. If you would like to contact Jessica about her services, you can contact her via her web site at Jlhcoachingconsulting.com. Her LinkedIn profile can be found at http://linkedin.com/in/jessicaatkinshernandez.
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This week, I talk to Army JAG veteran Chris LaCour whose retirement from the military was a little more abrupt and sooner than he had intended due to medical issues. Stationed in Hawaii at the time, he and his wife executed a plan to relocate to San Antonio, TX, and then find work with Chris attending a Hiring Our Heroes Cohort, through which he landed a non-legal job at USAA before eventually being hired on as a litigation attorney there. Chris's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-lacour-b5886510/.
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This week, I talk to Stephen Dunn, a JAG in the Army Reserve, who explains why separating and retiring JAGs should consider doing a law firm or entering the corporate world. Unsuccessful in obtaining a commission in the active component, Stephen secured a Reserve commission after becoming a prosecutor in Michigan before moving over to a law firm. Eighteen years later, he talks about juggling both careers and why JAGs make good firm attorneys and in-house counselors. Stephen's LinkedIn profile is HERE.
Podcast notes:
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A big thank you to the individuals who signed up to be a monthly sponsor on the Spotify for Podcasters web site. As retirement and new career draw closer, my hope is to contract out the editing and production work of the podcast, allowing me to continue the podcast once I start my next career.
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Speaking of which, I am less than 5 weeks away, but thankfully on the Navy payroll for a little longer.
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Michael Turner joined the Navy's JAG Corps in 1999 (Norfolk, Bahrain, Naples) and became a U.S. diplomat in 2004, retiring in April 2023. Serving as a foreign service officer in Indonesia, Colombia, the Secretary of State's Office, Vietnam, Shanghai, and Beijing, his last tour was leading the Department of State's largest overseas communications office (China) where he had served since 2019. As one of the very few, senior-level former officials who has recent, on-the-ground, experience in China, he formed his own consulting firm, Turner Global Solutions LLC, specializing in counter-disinformation and crisis narratives. In this episode, we hear about making a career overseas and how retirement has allowed Michael to focus on personal projects, such as helping dads through his website Raise Strong Girls. Click HERE for Michael's LinkedIn profile.
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Mike Palmer retired from the Navy JAG Corps in 2018 after 30 years of service with no intention of practicing law again. However, like so many judge advocates who at one time or another have taught as an adjunct somewhere, Mike has continued serving as an adjunct professor and then picked up a job as instructor teaching foreign officers. Mike also talks about the importance of doing those things that everyone plans on doing later in life, like traveling the country, when the opportunity presents itself and while your health is good.
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In this episode, we learn about Matt Osman's journey from his 6.5 years hardship tours in the Navy from Japan to Rota, Spain, to Charleston, SC, his decision to get out, the mistake he made in looking for that first job getting out of the service, and how he ended up being an elected judge for the past 12+ years. Matt's profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewosman/details/experience/.
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Paige Ormiston knew that her assignment to Naples, Italy, would be her last duty station in the Navy before retirement. What she did not know was that while a global pandemic would drastically alter this overseas experience, and not in a good way, it did prove to be somewhat fortuitous when it came time to looking for work back in the United States. In this episode, we hear about the joys and challenges of making the transition to a civilian career while stationed OCONUS. Paige's soon-to-be-updated LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/paigeormiston/
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In the 1980s and 1990s, environmental regulation began to have a significant impact on the Navy's ability to conduct operations, both at sea and ashore, resulting in the Navy JAG developing a small cadre of environmental law experts. Neil Sheehan was one of those and in the early 2000s was serving as the environmental law attorney for Commander, Pacific Fleet. This was his last position on active duty before transitioning to the Reserves. In this episode, Neil talks a little about the Navy's environmental law program, what he did with this experience after leaving the service, and how he ended up back with the U.S. Government, this time with the U.S. Coast Guard. Neil's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/neil-sheehan-a122865b/
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In today's episode, Matt Reeder talks about his journey from the U.S. Marine Corps to Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP, to his recent transition to OnlyFans, where he now serves as Deputy General Counsel. Additionally, having served on a number of hiring panels while with Orrick, Matt talks about the importance of accurately describing what you have done in the military, and the importance of understanding what these terms mean to your audiences. He talks about the importance of networking, the advantages and disadvantages of having served in the military when it comes to applying to jobs outside of government, the business aspect of practicing law, and much more. Matt's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-reeder/.
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Passed over twice for promotion, Jeremy Burkhart was forced to make the jump to the civilian sector, where he ultimately landed at Holland and Knight, LLP. With the benefit of hindsight, Jeremy considers his non-selection "as the best thing that ever happened to me." Now also serving in the Army Reserves, Jeremy encourages judge advocates to think about life after the JAG Corps well in advance and not wait until you are approaching the exit ramp. Jeremy's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-burkhart-83991815b/ while is firm biography can be found at https://www.hklaw.com/en/professionals/b/burkhart-jeremy-d.
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Last week, I had the opportunity to catch up with Rob Passerello who retired last year from the Navy JAG Corps as a captain. Rob and I had talked about him passing along his experiences. Now, a year later, Rob finds himself pivoting to a second post-military job, proving again that your first one will not necessarily be the last one. Join me as we hear from one of the truly “good guys” of the JAG Corps. Rob’s information can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-passerello-leadership-dedication-focus.--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support
Following his retirement from the Navy in 1998, where he had spent many years on the bench as a judge, Ken Krantz served as an Administrative Law Judge for three different Federal agencies. While Ken acknowledges his information about when he became an ALJ is a little dated, he nonetheless brings awareness to the opportunities that are out there for people who would like to serve as one after leaving the JAG Corps. In addition to providing a link to a fact sheet on ALJ put out by the Office of Personal Management (https://www.opm.gov/services-for-agencies/administrative-law-judges/fact-sheet-administrative-law-judge-alj-positions-posted.pdf), Ken is open to connecting to interested lawyers via LinkedIn. His profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/kenneth-krantz-06586530/.
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Carson Honeycutt was a USMC Sergeant and CH-53 Crew Chief when he left the service after 5 years. He then went onto a sales job, where he failed. Undeterred, he has gone onto get his MBA and JD. In this episode, he passes along his lessons learned, which he uses to mentor people leaving the service. Carson’s LinkedIn profile is found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/carhoney and his website is www.thezenveteran.com. (UPDATE: After prepping this episode for release, Carson received word that he had passed the bar exam. He was admitted to the Alaska bar this week.)--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support
In this episode Immigration Judges Megan Jackler and Jennifer Peyton give an overview of life as Administrative Law Judges for Immigration matters, including the process for becoming one. Hint: if interested, a new posting on USAJOBS is only days away. Judge Jackler serves in the Navy Reserves, while Judge Peyton was in private practice before going to the bench. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support
Nik Mathews, U.S. Army veteran and Partner at Orrick, Herrington, and Sutcliffe talks about his journey and the upcoming VCLF that Orrick sponsors. Nik's profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikmathews. VCLF information and registration available at https://www.veteranslegalcareerfair.com/--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support
Bob Stern is a retired corporate counsel who now volunteers with Candorful, a non-profit organization that provides interview coaching for military transitioning to the civil sector. He also talks about why he believes military JAGs are well suited for work in the corporate world, and has served a mentor to a number of former judge advocates, including individuals previously interviewed on this podcast. Bob’s LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertstern1.--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support
Another incredible transition story. When Augustus popped up in my LinkedIn feed, I immediately reached out to him to tell me how he scored his current gig with Amazon Prime. His story has everything: setback, perseverance, adaptability, embracing challenges, self-improvement, a pandemic, and finally, success! You gotta hear his story about Primetime, Amazon style, that is. Augustus’s LI profile can be found here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/augustus-turner-venerablevoice/ --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/tom-welsh/support
Raise your hand if you have looked at a job description and determined that you were not qualified for it? In this episode, my friend, and leadership and performance coach, Dr. Bryan Price, talks about “Imposter Syndrome” and why we talk ourselves out of applying. A must listen for those who still have their hands up! To learn more about Bryan and his work, please visit topmentalgame.com and his LinkedIn Profile at https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryan-price/.--- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/tom-welsh/support
I first met Toren Mushovic back in 2002. At the time, he was a Lieutenant Junior Grade Surface Warfare Officer aboard USS PRINCETON (CG 59), which was part of the NIMITZ Strike Group, for which I served as the SJA. (As a side note, yesterday marked the 20th anniversary of the commencement of our deployment.) Toren then attended law school on his own before returning the Navy as a JAG. After 5 years and for family reasons, he left active service and relocated to Denver, CO, where he has enjoyed a successful career in the healthcare industry. Toren currently serves as the Vice President and Compliance Officer at Soleo Health. His LinkedIn profile can be found here.
This conversation was recorded on January 6, 2023.
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In this episode, David Thompson talks about finding work as a family law attorney and how his background as an SJA, trial counsel, defense counsel, and victims legal counsel has benefited him in his new role. We also talk compensation and having the right expectations when leaving the service. David's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-thompson-lawyer/
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This week, I catch up with Randy Bagwell, one of the many great Army JAGs with whom I had the honor to serve. As you will hear in this episode, through networking Randy was an opportunity to leverage his expertise in International Humanitarian Law with the American Red Cross in Washington, DC, before being asked if he would be willing to take a "temporary" posting in Yokota, Japan, where he has been for almost the last two years. Randy's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/randybagwell/.
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In December, Danny Murphy posted "A Call to Service" on LinkedIn, in which he recounted the tremendous advice and mentorship from which he benefitted leading up to his retirement from the U.S. Army in 2020, and implored former and retired JAGs to help their brethren. A good friend tagged me in his response, and on January 6th, Danny and I had a conversation about his post. In this episode, you will hear about Danny's journey from the front office of the TJAGSA to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Southwest Virginia to private practice. Grab a cup of coffee and listen to what Danny has to say. Danny's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/danny-j-murphy/
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Last week, I dropped part one of my conversation with Ross Booher. This is part two of our conversation, most of which is Ross passing along a lot of considerations for JAGs leaving the service. Again, Ross's LinkedIn profile is HERE while information about Latitude Legal can be found at https://latitudelegal.com.
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Ross Booher did one tour in the Navy JAG Corps before returning to Tennessee and entering private practice before becoming the Founder and CEO of Latitude Legal (latitudelegal.com), a firm that specializes in matching legal departments with qualified lawyers to meet their attorney, paralegal, legal operations professional and compliance need. Whether looking for contract work or work-to-hire, companies like Latitude offer another avenue for separating and retiring judge advocates with a way to acclimate to the practice of law after the service. In part one of a wide-ranging interview, Ross shares his insights on using a recruiter to assist with finding that job. With offices in 11 markets across the United States, Latitude Legal could be of benefit to you. Listen in. You can find Ross's LinkedIn profile at https://www.linkedin.com/in/ross-booher-bb0869b/.
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As you will hear in this episode, Matt Schultz and his wife made the decision to leave the Navy and move to Nashville, TN, where she landed a job at Vanderbilt University. Matt discovered that finding work as a non-native out-of-state lawyer was "a rough slog." While he did have interviews, those interviews never resulted in an offer. Nonetheless, he found the JAG alumni network to be considerably helpful and unselfish with plenty of local former JAGs taking the time to speak with him. Ultimately, he found work with the State of Tennessee Attorney General's Office before moving onto Tennessee Department of Human Resources and to is current job as Chief Legal and Civil Rights Officer in the Office of Superintendent of Public Instruction for the State of Washington. Despite the tough slog, Matt talks about his service in the Navy JAG Corps taught him to lead by putting him in positions that required him to trust his subordinates and in doing so, enabled him to achieve different professional qualifications, such as conning a 96,000-ton aircraft carrier. Matt's LinkedIn profile can be accessed at https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattschultzjd/.
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I met Thomas Eybl this past fall as we were both members of FourBlock's 2022 Washington, D.C. cohort. This past Saturday, in just his 7th day of retirement, he messaged me to let me know that he had received an offer from T-Mobile. As this was the first time a colleague and listener had let me know about an offer during the life of this podcast, I asked Thomas to share the story of his career progression while the memories were still fresh. In this episode, Thomas provides insight into applying for Federal jobs, Skillbridge, networking and understanding the audience(s) civilian job advertisements are targeting. We also learn about perseverance and the importance of not burning bridges. Thomas's LinkedIn profile is accessible at https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomas-eybl/Note that this episode runs a little longer at 41 minutes. I have some feedback that perhaps I can improve by running the podcasts a little longer. What do you think? Please let me know via the poll.--- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/tom-welsh/support
Happy New Year! Chad Jespersen retired from the United States Air Force in June 2021. With the COVID 19 pandemic ramping up as he was preparing to transition out of the service, he was forced to find innovative ways to network, which he did, including extensive use of Zoom and other online tools to meet people who could help him with his goal to find his next career. What was clear from our conversations, both this one and another that we had offline, Chad is a person who not only talks about the importance of networking, but practices it. Familiar with the numerous programs such as Hiring Our Heroes, Candorful, Fourblock, and American Corporate Partners, Chad is a walking encyclopedia. Now working for Unisys in HR and acquisitions, Chad is a great source for information and tips about making the transition from active duty to the civilian sector. His LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/chad-jespersen/
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When I first launched this podcast and was soliciting volunteers, Paul Janoff was among the first to raise his hand and volunteer to come onto this show. For one reason or another, however, we never got around to chatting until December 16, 2022. I think it is the perfect show to closeout the year. Paul offers a positive message of what awaits those of on active duty, which comes from serving in the Navy JAG Corps in the 1980s followed by stints in Philadelphia as a prosecutor, and then working with the Army and the Coast Guard before moving onto his current job as a bilingual HR advisor.
Paul's LinkedIn profile can be viewed at https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-janoff-b3534133/.
A few programming notes.
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There are a few spots where there are slight distortions from degraded connectivity. I do not think they impact the quality of the podcast, but simply wanted to make you aware.
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You will note a moment of silent at around the 1245 mark. No, this is not in remembrance of Barbara Walters who just passed away, but a ringing phone here in the podcast studios caused us to stop for a moment.
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Turning to last week's show, I provided the wrong email address for Veteran Legal, LLC. I have corrected on the podcast description. The correct e-mail address isadvice@veteranlegalrep.com.
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Happy New Year!
Merry Christmas. Today, on the 365th day since releasing the trailer for this podcast, we talk to U.S. Army JAG veteran James "Jimmy" Trieschmann who tells about his career progression from active duty to a civilian military justice appeals practice before building a nationwide VA disability ratings appeals practice. James also provides a primer on the VA disability claims process, a must for both people who will soon be leaving active duty as well as those who separated and never filed a claim as well as those who may be thinking about appealing their rating. The URL for Veteran Legal, LLC, is https://www.veteranlegalrep.com, while the phone number is 202-996-1300 and the e-mail address is veteranlegalrep@gmail.com.
In today's episode, Shane Cooper details his very quick and unexpected journey to becoming the Associate Dean for Administration and Enrollment at the University of New Hampshire Franklin Pierce School of Law. Believing that it was unlikely his application would advance, let alone that he would get the job, Shane found himself a clear front runner and had yet to tell Navy JAG Corps leadership about the possibility of him leaving. Fortunately, leadership understood the significance of this opportunity and was able to assist him to go ashore in time to begin his new career. This is an episode for JAGs thinking about law school administration. Shane's LinkedIn profile can be found here.
Good morning! Start your GO NAVY! BEAT ARMY! Saturday off with another episode of After the JAG Corps! Today, I talk to Alison Atkins, who served just over 20 years in the Army, both as an MP and then as a JAG. Following her retirement in 2020, Alison first worked with Capital One before moving onto U.S. Bank where she serves as Assistant General Counsel and Vice President and Chief Cyber Counsel. In this episode, Alison talks about how she was fortunate to link up with a Navy veteran as a hiring manager at a company that values potential over experience, enabling her to make the jump from a military practice to the financial world. In our wide-ranging conversation, we talk resumes, compensation, the cultural differences of working in the civilian sector, and Alison even worked a reference to Joey Tribbiani from Friends into our conversation. Alison's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/alison-atkins/.
In this episode, Kelli Hooke shows that applying for a job online can indeed result in employment. While stationed at Fort Belvoir, Kelli talks about how she saw an ad for a position with T Mobile in Seattle, for which she was ultimately hired. Kelli shares her thoughts on what it is like to work for a major tech company, and how working as a corporate counsel is a lot like being an SJA. Note: you will hear voices in the background of this interview. It is a testament to Kelli's ability to multitask. As a working woman with a husband and children, Kelli graciously gave up her time to talk to me while she waited on one of her children at an evening commitment. Kelli's LinkedIn profile can be accessed by clicking HERE.
Happy Thanksgiving! Today, Scott Felder, a retired Army judge advocate and partner with Wiley Rein LLP in Great Falls, VA, talks about what may be the oldest digital judge advocate network, known as the Military Legal Professionals Network or MLPN. Scott took over administration of the network this year and was gracious enough to talk to me about how what it is, how it came about, and how judge advocates can join. Scott also talked about his own career progression as well as the efforts by him and his firm to help judge advocates leaving the service. Scott's LinkedIn profile can be accessed HERE.
Programming note: Looking for additional guests. If interested, please e-mail me at afterthejagc@gmail.com.
In today's podcast, I talk to Jordan Walerstein, who leveraged his time as a member of the U.S. Army JAG Corps to working in the area of technology and security after a brief stint with the Department of Justice. Jordan is a wealth of knowledge, and provides his perspectives on the value of continued military service in the Army Reserves, USAJobs, the challenges associated with immediately going into an in-house counsel office, Amazon's hiring process, what it was like to work there, and even the quality of coffee served there! He has since moved on, but Jordan packed a lot into our 30 minutes. Jordan's profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/walerstein/.
In today's podcast, Faisal Akhter talks about his career progression from active duty as a member of the U.S. Army JAG Corps to working at Microsoft, where he now serves as a Senior Corporate Counsel. Faisal shares how his lifetime interest in technology led him to target employment opportunities in the tech sector, the interview process, how the COVID pandemic changed everything, how his experience the Army prepared him to assume his current leadership role as a director, and his belief of the important role, if not duty, that veterans have in helping those who come behind them. To that end, he encourages judge advocates to send those cold messages via LinkedIn to veterans at companies in which they are interested to learn about that organization's culture. Faisal's LinkedIn profile can accessed by clicking HERE.
This conversation was recorded on October 24, 2022.
Mark Fava is a 30-year Navy veteran and an accomplished aviation attorney, and although he credits everyone's favorite JAG and friend to all (Hank Molinengo) with being a critical enabler in his career success, never served as a JAG. Nonetheless, his background as a career Reserve naval aviator and attorney working in both law firms and at Boeing gives him a unique position to provide an outside perspective on the capabilities of JAGs to work in the corporate setting. However, the real take away from our conversation is the value of engaging with military veterans in your job search. As you will hear, Mark lists several examples in which having a military connection helped as he pursued different career opportunities. In fact, this entire podcast itself speaks to the power of having such allies as Mark and I had never met before we sat down for our conversation a couple of weeks ago; we connected via LinkedIn. And yet, he was kind enough to give me an hour of his time to help you and me with our career progression. Mark's LinkedIn profile can be viewed at https://www.linkedin.com/in/markfava/.
In this episode, we hear from retired Navy Captain Scott Thompson, who currently serves as the Director of DoD's SOCO. Scott and I were classmates in the Naval Justice School's basic lawyer course (Class 94020) from January to March 1994, and then spent two weeks together assigned to USS STUMP (DD 978) where we got our first exposure to the Fleet. Scott went onto hold a number high-visibility jobs before retiring in 2015. He then served briefly as the Executive Director of the Board for Correction of Naval Records before moving over to DoD SOCO. Scott's LinkedIn profile can be accessed at https://www.linkedin.com/in/thompsonscottf.
Mike Maffei served in active duty in the Navy JAG Corps for 4.5 years before leveraging his experience as a trial and appellate defense counsel to land a job as an assistant prosecutor with the DA's office in San Francisco, where he had clerked during law school. After a stint with the U.S. Attorney's Office, Mike is now a senior security counsel with Google. His LinkedIn profile is found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-maffei-attorney.
For many, retiring from the military and leaving the only career one has had since graduating from college or law school is tough, but even tougher for those whose career comes to an abrupt end due to adversity. In this episode, I talk to Jay Morse whose career came to such an end. Accused of misconduct Jay's fall from grace was humiliating as it was frustrating given the nature of the allegations, the publicity surrounding them, and the lack of any viable way to clear his name, restore his reputation or continue his military career given that he has consistently maintained his innocence. After a year or so of being subject to the military investigatory and administrative processes with which we are all familiar, he quietly left the Army in 2015. In the intervening seven years, Jay shares how he has dealt with this adversity. His LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaymorse1/.
Don Koenig left the Navy JAG Corps as a lieutenant commander, going from manning the Administrative Law Division's Standards of Conduct and Ethics branch to standing up a healthcare system's corporate responsibility office as it's initial compliance officer. From there, he became the Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer as well as the President of a Level I trauma center and now serves in his current position as a member of the Senior Executive Service. His incredible journey again underscores the tremendous skills and capabilities that judge advocates develop while in service to our nation as both military officers and lawyers. Don put it best when he described his JAG service as act one of a three-act play. Don's LinkedIn profile can be viewed at https://www.linkedin.com/in/donkoenig/.
In this episode, Major Brooks Rose tells us about the stand-up of a virtual Military Officers Association chapter exclusively for judge advocates, active and retired, providing another avenue for networking. For more info, email Brooks at moaajavc@gmail.com
In this episode, we hear the amazing account of Case Thomas's decision to retire and the deliberate decision to live in the present each step of the way: from devoting 100% of his energy and focus to his job before terminal leave, the decision to use that period to truly rest, and to start his job search after he was in a retired status. Case's networking and job search may resonate with a lot of us: a general idea of what he wanted and the struggle to parlay his military experience into breaking into a non-attorney role in industry. He also talks about the danger in listening to everyone about things like resumes and one's LinkedIn Profile. Case now serves as the Vice President, Global Learning, Development & Performance in Austin, TX. His LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/casey-z-thomas.
Drew Massucco and I were classmates in the basic lawyer course at the Naval Justice School in 1994, After a short stint on active duty, Drew transitioned to the Reserves, but ended up spending approximately one-half of the last 28+ years on active duty stints. When not deploying to Afganistan, the Horn of Africa, and GTMO, Drew served as a prosecutor in the US Attorney's offices in Puerto Rick and the U.S. Virgin Islands. In this episode, we talk about the advantages that JAGs have when seeking employment with the Department of Justice. Drew also explains why he remained in the employment of the U.S. Government all these years, decisions that must be made in the near future, and even sitting for a bar exam almost 20 years after sitting for his last one.
(Note: Contrary to the dates discussed in this episode, Drew has not yet had his retirement ceremony, which is now scheduled for September 30, 2022, in Tampa, Florida.)
As for the nickname "Chupacabra," it was his code name in GTMO and is a nod to his Puerto Rican connections.
BG Gross retired in 2015 after 30 years of service. In this episode, he talks about the mental process of transitioning from the military, the importance of finding oneself and what one wants to do after military service. BG Gross’s Post-military has been as diverse as his active-duty career with stints at a law firm, as a general counsel, teaching, serving as a consultant, and as a highly-qualified expert for the DoD. Affable as ever, General Gross shares the challenges that accompanies doing new things, including a new experience of being let go, but offers reassurances that the same drive, willingness to learn new areas of the law, and the ability to provide sound counsel that is instilled in us as JAGs is just as valued in the civilian sector as it is in the military. General Gross’s LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/richgross. This conversation was recorded in August 2022.
This week, I talk to retired United States Air Force Colonel Dawn Zoldi who became the U.S. military's foremost expert on legal matters relating to the domestic operation of unmanned aerial vehicles or drones and then parlayed that expertise into a post-government career as an entrepreneur, business owner, consultant, speaker, writer, and podcaster among other things.
I am really excited about this episode for several reasons. First, Dawn is the first Air Force JAG to come onto the podcast to share her journey. Second, Dawn's story highlights the possibilities that may be awaiting one of us who have developed an expertise in a specific subject matter and not only recognizes the potential of possessing such a skill set, but has the confidence to put in in motion.
Dawn is the Founder and CEO of P3 Tech Consulting LLC. Her LinkedIn profile can be accessed at https://www.linkedin.com/in/dawnzoldi/ while her various podcasts, Dawn of Drones, Full TILT and Full Crew can be found at https://www.youtube.com/c/DawnZoldi. A prolific writer and speaker, a quick search of "Dawn Zoldi" will result in scores of podcasts, videos and web sites.
As military officers, we aspire to be viewed by our contemporaries and subordinates as a good or effective leader. And as we prepare to leave the service, many of us (me included) will often include "Leader" somewhere on our LinkedIn profile or assert it in a resume. But what does leadership look like and how does one quantify it during a job interview? I talked Sean Georges, a former U.S. Marine judge advocate who left the Corps as a major, taking a job with a civilian law firm before serving 22 years a general counsel at a publicly-traded company. Along with his childhood friend and fellow retired Marine, John Buford, Ph.D, Sean distilled their observations and lessons learned about leadership in a book, On Mission: Your Journey to Authentic Leadership.As I prepare for my impending retirement (sometime in the next 15 months), I found the opportunity to have a conversation with someone who has not only speaks from experience, both in and out of uniform, but is passionate about the subject.
This conversation was recorded on August 3, 2022, just days after the book was released. Sean's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/sean-georges-031b486/.
CAPT Kevin O'Neil, JAGC, U.S. Navy (Retired), was serving as a military judge, a job which he absolutely loved, when he was diagnosed with a very rare and aggressive form of cancer and began a long and courageous battle for his health. Medically retired in 2015 and finally turning a corner in his health battle, Kevin realized he was bored in retirement and found a way to return to the bench as an administrative law judge for the State of California's Department of Social Services. Like many JAGs in retirement, although he had experience as a judge, Kevin had to learn a completely new area of the law. This week's podcast is an opportunity to learn about working at the state level and an opportunity to hear about Kevin's remarkable journey.
Kevin's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-o-neil-181772aa/. Our conversation was recorded in August 2022.
David Bean served less than 5 years as an Army JAG, but, as he explains in this podcast, the experiences he gained during while wearing the uniform have served him well as he has moved from "Big Law" to corporate law. David takes us through his year-long search for a job (which included many rejections), how former JAGs of all services were always willing to give him a hand or introduce him to their networks, and how corporate America values military veterans and the experiences, knowledge and skills JAGs bring. David also invites separating and retiring JAGs to contact him. David's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-bean-0a4baa145/. This conversation was recorded August 3, 2022.
FourBlock is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization dedicated to supporting separating/retiring service members in their transition from military service to meaningful civilian careers. In this episode, Eric Stetson, a retired Army officer, gives us the gouge on FourBlock. Eric’s LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericstetson1. Information on FourBlock is available at https://fourblock.org/.
Don King retired from the Navy JAG Corps about two years ago. As Don explains in this episode, he wanted to get off the bench and back in front of it. You will hear how he envisioned having a small practice in Southern California, leaving him plenty of time to play golf and enjoy beautiful Coronado. Things, however, have not turned out as planned. Not only is Don not playing much golf due to his thriving practice, but he has had to hire other attorneys to handle the caseload. In this week's episode, recorded on July 2, 2022, Don talks about making the decision to retire, how his plans were impacted by the COVID pandemic, and the launching of King Military Law (https://kingmilitarylaw.com). Don also talks about the need for experienced former judge advocates to provide pro bono services to veterans with PTSD who have received unfavorable discharges from the services due to attempts to self-medicate following years of combat, and organizations with which you can affiliate to help our heroes receive the help and benefits they need. This episode is for anyone thinking about hanging a shingle after they leave the JAG Corps as Don extends an invitation to you to learn how to avoid the unnecessary mistakes that he made. Don can be reached via LinkedIn (www.linkedin.com/in/kingmilitarylaw) or via his firm web page. PROGRAMMING NOTE: It has been a busy summer during which I have not had much time to talk to people. As a result, I am down to one interview. I am looking for more guests to share their journeys as well as others who could speak about ancillary items associated with transitioning such as the VA disability system. If you have any interest or recommendations, please e-mail me at afterthejagc@gmail.com
Adam Kantor left the Navy JAG Corps after 7 years back in 2005, a decision which he describes as one of the hardest adult decisions of his life. In this episode, Adam tells us how a recommendation from a friend to talk to an attorney in Tampa, Florida, put him in the position of making a career change, how his seven years of active-duty service prepared him for his civilian law practice and offers words of encouragement to those who are facing the decision to separate or retire. Adam's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-kantor-b533715a/. A couple side notes. First, I had never interacted with Adam until our conversation on July 1, 2022, but the podcast you will hear is largely unedited. The point is that despite our lack of familiarity, it was like we had known each other for years. This is a common and unique phenomenon among military veterans that is a huge advantage when it comes to networking. Everyone tells you that, but, as I listened to our conversation two weeks later, I was struck by how easy it was for us to immediately strike up a conversation. In fact, Adam introduced me to someone in his network as I pursue my own career progression plans. Second, this summer has been a very busy travel season for me (this is the third Saturday in a row that I am on the road). Accordingly, I apologize to both guests and audience for not putting in the same amount of time to edit these podcasts.
Mike Millios enjoyed his time in the Army, transitioning to the Reserve Component upon separation. It was while in civilian practice that he recognized how the pressures of today's law practice lead to unhealthy habits and lifestyles. Now in Minnesota, Mike has evolved his practice from criminal defense to mediation, and also become a Wellness and Life Coach, assisting other attorneys and communities embrace Mindfulness and other exercises to live more joyful and less anxious lives.
(Apologies to Mike and the audience as this is not my best editing job. I am on the road the next two weeks and thus unable to devote extended time to editing the clips.) Mike's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelmillios/
This conversation was recorded on July 1, 2022.
This week, we shift gears a little by talking to an active-duty judge advocate who has made the decision to separate from the Navy and begin her post-military career, which has nothing to do with the law. LCDR Leslie Stephenson has served for almost 10 years, but has decided to shift colors and will return to school to pursue a completely different line of work. What that career is, however, requires you to listen to this episode. Leslie explains the factors that led her to this decision, the preparations she had undertaken and even provides some additional resources for separating and retiring military members, especially female military members. What those resources are, again, requires you to listen to this episode. LCDR Stephenson's LinkedIn Profile can be accessed at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesliestephenson/ This conversation was recorded on May 27, 2022.
Happy Fourth of July!
Career military officers approaching retirement have a lot on their plate just to get out of the service as well as finding a second career. One of the things that is not really considered is whether to pursue an alternative to the Survivor Benefit Plan, which costs the retiree 6.5% of their retirement pay over 30 years and provides the surviving spouse with 55% of the member's retainer pay. In this episode, I talk with Scott Tucker, a USMA graduate and former Army officer, about this issue. If you are approaching retirement, I recommend you listen to this podcast so that you can thoughtfully make a decision as going the insurance route is something you need some lead time to consider. Scott's LinkedIn profile can be accessed here. Additional information and resources can be found at USVetWealth's webpage here or his YouTube channel here.
Mike Green became the first judge advocate assigned to the Naval Nuclear Propulsion Program in 2000 because Admiral "Skip" Bowman insisted on having a JAG assigned to his staff. Proving once again that timing is everything in life, Mike was able to leverage his experience at his last assignment to a follow-on career as an attorney at a law firm and then as in-house counsel with a nuclear energy firm before moving over to TerraPower, LLC, this past May, when this conversation was recorded. Mike entered the Navy in 1984 as a naval aviator and retired in 2004 as a judge advocate. With 18 years of post-Navy law experience under his belt, Mike shares his wisdom on what is important for retiring and separating judge advocates should consider as they decide what to do next as well as a look back in his time in uniform. As always, Mike's LinkedIn profile can be accessed by clicking HERE.
Beth Kubala retired from the U.S. Army JAG Corps in January 2015 after almost 22 years of service, becoming the Senior Director of Syracuse University's Institute for Veterans and Military Families. In November 2019, she became the Executive Director and Teaching Professor at the Veterans Legal Clinic at the Syracuse University College of Law. In this episode, Beth explains she took the a bus on the Greyhound on the Hudson River Line 'cause she's in a New York state of mind, where she is able to look after our veterans in her current role, her love of what she does, and that all one needs is a plan, but it need not be a well-developed plan. As always, Beth's LinkedIn profile can be accessed by clicking here. This conversation was recorded in May 2022. All you lawyers know this, but THE CONTENTS OF THIS PODCAST CONSTITUTE THE PERSONAL OPINIONS OF THE HOST AND GUESTS ACTING IN THEIR PERSONAL CAPACITIES. "AFTER THE JAG CORPS" IS NEITHER AFFILIATED WITH OR ENDORSED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF THE DEFENSE, THE RESPECTIVE BRANCHES OF THE ARMED SERVICES OR THEIR JUDGE ADVOCATES GENERAL.
If Jonathan Goldsmith was the most "The Most Interesting Man in the World" in those Dos Equis beer commercials, then CDR Scott Suozzi, USN,must be the World's Most Interesting Retired JAG. After a short stint as a civilian mariner on a oil tanker at the age of 16, Scott went onto graduate from the U.S. Naval Academy, become and deploy as a Surface Warfare Officer, teach at the Naval Academy, and then transition to the Navy JAG Corp's where he served in a number of diverse roles around the world, including in Europe, the Middle East and the Caribbean and South America. His post-Navy life has been just as adventurous: taking two extended road trips of the United States, serving as chief of staff at a renown institution of higher education, and working with a number of non-profit organizations, including his current role supporting a nationally-known organization that supports the military and first responders. On May 6, 2022, Scott and I talked about his incredible military career and just as equally impressive (and diverse) post-military career, highlighting the tremendous diversity of experience that our service provides as well all of the amazing opportunities that are out there after one leaves the military. Scott also talks about the value of taking time to reflect and recharge one's batteries after extended military service and offers some important thoughts for those who are contemplating leaving military service. Give it a listen!
Scott's LinkedIn profile is available by clicking HERE.
THE CONTENTS OF THIS PODCAST CONSTITUTE THE PERSONAL OPINIONS OF THE HOST AND GUESTS ACTING IN THEIR PERSONAL CAPACITIES. "AFTER THE JAG CORPS" IS NEITHER AFFILIATED OR ENDORSED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF THE DEFENSE, THE RESPECTIVE BRANCHES OF THE ARMED SERVICES OR THEIR JUDGE ADVOCATES GENERAL.
Joe Moyer packed a lot into just four years on active duty in the US Navy JAGC Corps, serving as an in-house counsel, appellate counsel, and a year in Afghanistan, where he really got his first consulting experience working as an advisor to Afghan government officials and lawyers on rule of law issues. He also met and worked with some individuals who would become of his network and who have helped in his post-Navy career progression. In this episode, Joe tells us about his journey from the JAGC Corps into the world of consulting and compliance, including his current job advising companies on CFIUS (The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States) requirements. If you are interested in consulting work after leaving the military, then this episode is for you. Joe's LinkedIn profile can be found here.
This conversation was recorded May 6, 2022.
THE CONTENTS OF THIS PODCAST CONSTITUTE THE PERSONAL OPINIONS OF THE HOST AND GUESTS ACTING IN THEIR PERSONAL CAPACITIES. "AFTER THE JAG CORPS" IS NEITHER AFFILIATED OR ENDORSED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF THE DEFENSE, THE RESPECTIVE BRANCHES OF THE ARMED SERVICES OR THEIR JUDGE ADVOCATES GENERAL.
It purely a coincidence that my conversation with COL Walt Foster, USAR, is being released the same week that "Top Gun: Maverick" is released. The connection is that Walt initially entered military service in 1987 to become a naval aviator, thereby giving credence to the scenario in which Maverick could possibly still be serving over 30 years later. There are differences however as Maverick was already a lieutenant in 1986 while Walt entered as an ensign that year. Additionally, Walt left the service to attend law school and eventually joined the Army Reserves, where he had a number of mobilizations, especially since the attacks on 9/11 and is essentially leaving the service like his active-duty colleagues.
I had never met Walt before we sat down for our conversation on April 29, 2022, but typical of many of our experiences in the military, the commonality of service was enough to provide a foundation to have the dialogue which you are about to hear. In this episode, Walt talks about his career progression journey, including resumes, Hiring our Heroes (www.hiringourheroes.org) and Veteran (www.veterati.com), and interviewing.
Walt is set to start his post-military law practice on Tuesday, May 31, 2022. I am aware, however, that Walt did attend a recent cohort hosted by Blue Water Advisors, and is willing to share his perspective on the value of BWA, HOH and Veterati. You can contact Walt through LinkedIn; his profile can be accessed here.
Dan Saumur and I first met as O-4s at the DFAC at Camp Victory, Iraq. We then had the opportunity to work together again when he was the SJA for U.S. Army South and I was the SJA at JTF-GTMO. Dan became a very frequent contributor on transition-related matters on LinkedIn as he approached his own retirement and his transition to a post-military career. In this episode, Dan talks about his priorities when it came to a follow-on career with location, in this instance San Antonio, being the primary factor in that process. Now working for the Veterans Administration, Dan talks about the fulfillment he derives from continuing to support veterans in his new capacity and shares his thoughts how his use of LinkedIn helped with making introductions and provided him an opportunity to engage with and learn from others.
Dan's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielsaumur/ (which can be accessed by clicking on the URL).
This episode was recorded on April 28, 2022.
Following his retirement from the Navy JAG Corps, Steve Epstein went on to work in ethics for the Navy Office of General Counsel and the Department of Defense Office of General Counsel where he served as the director of its Standard of Conduct Office, before going to work for Price Waterhouse Coopers and Boeing. I sat down with Steve to talk all things ethics and compliance, a must for anyone thinking of entering the compliance world upon leaving the JAG Corps. Please note, that the audio drops off around the 18:05 mark for about 2 seconds. (Not my best edits, but I was pressed for time as I head out of town and the country for a few days.)
In this episode, we learn about Mark Nevitt's incredible journey from entering the Navy as a line officer flying the venerable S-3 Viking from the USS CONSTELLATION (CV-64) to serving in the Navy JAGC and now as a law school professor following his retirement in 2017 after a 20-year career. Mark provides some great insight into the different paths to becoming a tenured law school professor, including the narrow path available for JAGs desiring to enter academia, the importance of scholarly writing, the willingness to teach different areas of the law, and how other former JAGs-turned-law-professors helped him. A must listen for anyone thinking of becoming a law school professor.
Mark is currently an Associate Professor of Law at the Syracuse University College of Law, but will join the Emory University College of Law on June 1st. A prolific writer, Mark has had several articles published in several law reviews, and has been a frequent contributor to NYU's Just Security blog and Penn Law's Regulatory Review. Mark's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/marknevitt/. This conversation was recorded April 22, 2022.
John and I served together at Naval Legal Service Office, Mid-Atlantic in the mid-1990s. A surface warfare officer who transitioned to the JAG Corps via the Legal Education Program, he quickly established himself as a skilled litigator, both as a prosecutor and defense counsel. Given his great credentials, a line officer, his courtroom skills and because his father had been a career judge advocate, many of us thought John would remain on active duty for a long time. However, Joh ended up transitioning to the Naval Reserves. Leveraging his vast military courts-martial litigation experience, John joined a firm in Northern Virginia, where he continued his career in the courtroom. John’s firm was retained to represent a company who saw several of its executives indicted, which eventually hired him as a litigation attorney and where eventually became its corporate secretary and general counsel. John's career is about seizing the day and taking advantage of opportunities as they arise.
John’s LinkedIn profile can be accessed by clicking here.
A few notes:
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User error during the edit process required a Mulligan, forcing a re-start of the entire process. This is the reason for the late release.
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You may note a few slight audio issues. I had intended to work on those, but #1 caused me to put it out as is.
This interview was conducted April 18, 2022.
On February 24, 2022, I had the opportunity of talking to Captain Stu Belt, JAGC, U.S. Navy (Retired), who continues to support and serve the men and women in the Navy as an attorney with the Navy Office of General Counsel (OGC) after a 24 years as a judge advocate. Stu takes us through his decision to retire, how assisting Military Sealift command with some international law issues while on active duty provided him with unique insight into the issues with which they were dealing with an OGC position came available in Bahrain, and the immense satisfaction he derives from his continued service in the Navy. For more information about Stu, visit his LinkedIn Profile page, which is available here.
In February, I had a chance to sit down with Colonel Ian Brasure, USMC (Retired), who, after a 30-year military career went onto work with the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) before taking a job with the Department of Homeland Security. Our conversation covered his desire to do something different and meaningful and what led him to return to Government Service and why he continues to serve. Ian also discussed USAJobs, onboarding when a security clearance has lapsed, the importance of relationships, and cautioned about allowing oneself to become "freeze-dried" as of the date of separation or retirement. Ian is an invaluable resource if you are interested in working for the U.S. Government. He is always willing to talk to separating and retiring judge advocates. To learn more or to get in touch with Ian, please see his LinkedIn profile, available here.
(I am always looking for new guests. If interested, please e-mail me at aftethejagc@gmail.com.)
In this podcast, we hear from Captain William "Bill" Toti, who served in the Navy for 25 years, including as a CO of a nuclear fast-attack submarine, and in other command positions before moving on to serve in various leadership positions within industry, including as CEO. Over the course of his career in industry, Bill kept notes on things that were either not taught or taught correctly during the transition courses, and his observations of common mistakes made by military personnel trying to transition into industry positions after leaving the service. The result was a book, From CO to CEO: A Practical Guide from Transitioning from Military to Industry Leadership, which was just released on April 5, 2022. Captain Toti's online presence includes his LinkedIn profile and his web site.
As the title states this is part two of our conversation. A huge thanks to BGen Baker, who was recently sworn in as the Federal Public Defender for the Western District of North Carolina and Butch Bracknell, who retired from the Marine Corps in 2014.
Proving once again that timing is everything in life, the launch of "After the JAG Corps" occurred just as BGen Baker was retiring from the Marine Corps. Seeing a comment about the podcast on LinkedIn, General Baker and LtCol Bracknell volunteered to sit down for a virtual conversation about their recent and not-so-recent experiences, offer insights, and "play it forward" to future retiring and separating judge advocates. The result was a free-flowing conversation that lasted about one hour. Accordingly, this podcast is being released in two parts with the second half of this conversation being released next week (4/2/2022). BGen Baker's LinkedIn profile can be accessed here while Butch Bracknell's profile can be found here. This conversation was recorded February 11, 2022.
When Aimee retired from the Army on December 1, 2021, it not only meant the end of a 21-year career as an officer, but also meant stepping away from the only life she had known since entering the United States Military Academy as a plebe. Long a mental health and resiliency advocate, Aimee talked candidly about the loss of identity that can come with leaving the military after decades of service, the importance of having a transition buddy, and above all, to ask for help if struggling. Leaving the service means leaving a very distinct way of life, and career progression is a process, not something that is necessarily tied to a specific date. Aimee's LinkedIn profile can be accessed here. Please note that the audio lags in a few places due to glitches in the matrix (or lagging wifi).
Ben Whitehouse only spent five years in the Navy JAG Corps, during which time he served as a defense counsel, trial counsel, and staff judge advocate, both overseas and at sea, before moving back to Tennessee where he ended up specializing in insurance regulation before moving onto private practice. Ben explains how his Navy career prepared him to jump into this field where he found his niche in the Volunteer State.
Recorded July 2021.
I caught up with Tom Jones, who retired from the Navy JAG Corps in December 2019, this past July, explaining how he went from serving as the deputy staff judge advocate at a combatant command to the panhandle of Oklahoma, where he is a now a rancher, lawyer, and holding public officer. (Spoiler alert: he is not Kevin Costner in Yellowstone.) Along the way, Tom explains how he had to take the indirect approach in order to gain admission to the Oklahoma bar without sitting for a bar examination, how a U.S. Marine judge advocate who sought the do the same thing a year or two earlier paved the way, and reminds us that no matter how long one has served, one is a lawyer whose skill sets transcend career progression.
Tom's LinkedIn profile can be accessed here.
“Preparation doesn't assure victory, it assures confidence.” ― Amit Kalantri, 'Wealth Of Words'.
Landing your desired job after leaving the military is no different than what we have done while on active duty. In this episode, I sit down with Mike Wallace, a retired Navy aviator, who, along with some former shipmates, founded Blue Water Advisors, a professional coaching firm, to equip separating and retiring military members with the knowledge, skill sets and tools to achieve success in their individual career progressions. Blue Water Advisors strives to provide current, relevant and credible mentoring built upon their individual experiences as retired military personnel who have gone onto work in business and corporate settings.
Additional information regarding Blue Water Advisors is available here and on LinkedIn here. Mike's LinkedIn profile is here.
This interview was conducted in October 2021.
In July 2021, I sat down with Captain Todd Huntley (retired) who serves as the Director of the National Security Law Program and Lecturer at Georgetown University Law Center. His road to Georgetown, however, is an interesting one and an example of how our experiences from our JAG Corps careers as well as some great timing are able to benefit us as we look toward the proverbial next chapter.
Todd's LinkedIn profile can be viewed at https://www.linkedin.com/in/todd-huntley-08b1a164/
This episode was taped in July 2021.
As you listen to today's podcast, you will discover an individual who had a most unusual career path, including one of the rare instances in which an individual left active duty, affiliated with the Reserves, and later returned to active duty. As I listened to our conversation multiple times during the editing process, I realized that John's journey in the Navy, in hindsight, was preparing him for his post-military calling in a number of ways; from sacrificing his own desire to remain on active duty to be with his father, and continuously doing what Navy JAG leadership asked of him, John's naval career was about service and being a man for others. And in doing so, he has been blessed with a very memorable and fun career. John has continued this since leaving the military, which, among other things, includes the practice of law.
Although it is likely that only a few listeners will enter into the line of work that John is in now, he nonetheless offers sound advice on what your service as a judge advocate has prepared you do and offers sound advice regarding discernment.
This episode was recorded in July 2021, before John Harbaugh had the successful season for which John Maksym hoped and prayed.
John's profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-maksym-963788118/
Retired Navy Captain Mike Luken shares his journey of going from the bench as a military judge in Norfolk, Virginia, to become the Program Director, Global Anti-Corruption at Walmart's headquarters in Bentonville, Arkansas. His story underscores the importance of keeping an open mind when considering "the next chapter," how his prior experience as a litigator, staff judge advocate, ethics counselor and serving overseas prepared him for his job as a corporate attorney. Mike also provides insight into how he used his network, provides his thoughts on resumes and talks about what to expect as you negotiate the finer details of employment. A must listen for any judge advocate hoping to make the transition from the wardroom to the boardroom. (Recorded August 2021.) Mike's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-j-luken/
Beau Higgins is a retired U.S. Marine Corps officer who since August 2016, has spearheaded Amazon's efforts to hire military veterans and military spouses. Although not a lawyer, Beau's insight on seeking employment after the military transcends all military occupation specialties. In this conversation, Beau talks about being prepared when opportunities present themselves, the value and skills military veterans bring to the civilian sector, the Skillbridge program, the importance of learning about prospective employers and their culture, resumes, and of course, all things Amazon.
Show notes.
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You will notice a microphone issue with Beau at the outset of the interview. This goes away at the 2:15 mark.
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Beau's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/beauhiggins1/
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I followed up with Beau regarding whether any former JAGs have been hired at Amazon via Skillbridge. As of January 28, 2022, the answer is no although they do have one in the current cohort working in the legal shop for Amazon Prime.
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The URL for Amazon's military webinars is https://amazonmilitarywebinarseries.splashthat.com/
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This interview was conducted in August 2021.
On July 3, 3021, Amanda (McNeil) Williams sat down with me (via Zoom) to talk about her decision to transfer from the active component of the U.S. Army, and the importance of networking and doing your research as you pursue a job outside of the military. Additionally, as the Executive Director of the Judge Advocates Association, Amanda talked about the annual Jobs for JAGs workshop (which was just held this month) as well as the resources and networking opportunities with the American Bar Association.
In this episode, recorded on July 1, 2021, Captain Steve Barney (retired) takes us through his Navy career and his post-Navy service as counsel for the Senate Armed Services Committee and as a Commissioner on the National Commission on National, Military and Public Service, which produced a report entitled "Inspired to Serve", a copy of which can be downloaded at https://www.volckeralliance.org/sites/default/files/attachments/Final%20Report%20-%20National%20Commission.pdf.
On June 29, 2021, I had the opportunity to interview (via Zoom) Erin Stone, who retired from the Navy JAG Corps in 2017. Erin now serves as the Senior Director, Council and Chapter Affairs at Military Officers Association of America (MOAA). In telling us the story of her own career progression from military to civilian service, Erin underlined the importance of looking inward when determining what to do next and the importance of being flexible and prepared to take (and enjoy) the indirect route to that new career.
This podcast is intended for judge advocates who are either contemplating retirement or separation from the military. This trailer provides additional background on my motivation for embarking on this endeavor. I am hoping that you will find these episodes to be informative and helpful as you embark on the next chapter of your professional careers.