The Covert Narcissism Podcast: Recent Episodes
Renee Swanson
Covert narcissistic abuse crushes one's soul. This podcast is devoted to understanding covert narcissistic abuse, its effect on the victims, and how to heal. Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/covertnarcissism/support
On today’s show, I have a guest who has been in a long-term marriage with a covert narcissistic husband, over three decades long. She joined CNG group coaching to try to find some answers. As she listened to the stories of the other group members, she found herself thinking that the people she met there deserved better. "That person deserves better than that," while listening to one story. "Oh, this one deserves better too," upon hearing another story. But then her eyes opened, “Oh! Wait a minute! I deserve better!”
Her story of embracing radical acceptance, claiming emotional space, and focusing on changing herself instead of him is a journey of bravery, healing, and inspiration. I know you will find her story to be validating and compelling. May it motivate you to find your own path of healing!
Life with a covert narcissist - those words really hold so much meaning in them, anyone who has lived this knows what I am saying with those simple words.
As I have explained many times in these episodes, is not the normal path of give and take, mutual reconciliation, mutual respect and courtesy. It is a very one-sided relationship. One with you doing all the work, doing the work for two individuals, carrying all the weight of the relationship. All the while being blamed for anything and everything that goes wrong and even being blamed for not doing anything to help the situation. While you are wearing yourself out trying to make things better.
To say it is exhausting does not come close to describing how you feel. It is impossible to even put the feelings into words.
Bone-dry, nothing left in the tank, exhaustion
Completely drained - mentally, emotionally, spiritually
Not knowing where else to turn, many turn to marriage counseling. Maybe it is in hope that someone can actually help. Maybe it is one final step of trying everything you can to save the marriage. Maybe it is pressure from the covert narcissist to go. Or even from your family and friends.
And marriage counseling can be incredibly helpful and productive when you are dealing with two normal range, healthy, mutually invested individuals. But here you are dealing with one passive-aggressive, manipulative, self-serving individual and one exhausted, internally beaten down, self-doubting individual. This creates a very different scenario, and the marriage counselor may not realize this at all and unintentionally add to the confusion.
Help! Everyone around me is a narcissist! They are everywhere!!
Once you start identifying the elements of narcissism that have infiltrated your personal life, it can certainly seem like narcissism is everywhere you look now.
My mom, my dad, my brother, my sister, my friend, my coworker, my boss, my neighbor, the stranger in the store, the clerk at the gas station, the lawyer in the news.
It’s everywhere! And we want to go screaming into the night! The random red flags that we see all around us remind us of the CN that we have been married to for years, even decades, and we want nothing to do with all of it. We want them all to go away!
However, not every narcissistic trait that you see around you makes that person a narcissist. Just because they are confident in who they are does not make them a narcissist.
As I mentioned in my episode two weeks ago, there are some elements of narcissism that are adaptive and productive. Today I want to explore that further to help us to better understand.
Covert narcissism is narcissism from a unique angle. The internal characteristics are the same as an overt narcissist, but it plays out differently.
Narcissism is not defined in the DSM as the loud and boisterous life of the party. It does not list traits of hitting, cheating, and yelling.
Rather, NPD is defined as having a grandiose sense of self-importance, requiring excessive admiration, believing that they are special, having a lack of empathy, jealous of others, and arrogant. These traits and others are present in both overt and covert narcissists. How they show up differs. In this podcast, we explore these differences in order to raise awareness of covert narcissism.
This particular episode addresses the hyper-sensitivity of narcissists and how this displays for both overt and covert narcissists. Overt narcissists react with fear and use intimidation to control of their victim. Covert narcissists react with hurt and victimhood, using guilt and blame to control their victim.
Someone recently commented on my Tiktok video, saying that they have been confident that they are married to a CN, but now are struggling bad wondering it they are the narcissist.
I totally understand this! It is actually extremely common that it’s mind-blowing! I want to help you understand why this happens and to describe the different types of narcissistic behavior.
Everyone has moments of displaying narcissistic behaviors and traits. And not all narcissism is wicked and evil. There are elements of narcissism that actually serve a productive and healthy role in life. Narcissistic traits that help us through developmental phases in life, such as the transition from childhood to adulthood and the transition from victim of emotional abuse to taking charge of who we are and the life we want to live.
Standing up for yourself can feel incredibly narcissistic. And that toxic and manipulative person in your life will be extremely quick to point that out. But don’t be fooled. Educate yourself. Take deep, honest self-reflective looks at your own thoughts, feelings and actions.
Today I am discussing the different types of narcissism and how it is showing up in our world.
There is a YOU in there that has been buried under this thing called narcissism, and especially covert narcissism. And it is truly like being buried! Buried under the weight of this relationship you are in or have been in. Buried under their judgment, sensitivity, blame, superiority, entitlement, harshness. Buried under your own over-thinking, over-analyzing, walking on eggshells, playing through a hundred ways to say something, being perfect, blaming yourself.But this is a new year! New year, new you! That doesn't quite work. This is more.. New Year, Come Back to You! Let’s start this new year with a journey to finding you again! A journey of healing, taking control of your life, and freeing your spirit. If you are in need of group support, we have it for you! This will catapult you onto that journey of healing. My next round of group coaching begins in the middle of January 2023. These groups are the most empowering offer that I have. These groups are life-changing. What a fantastic way to start the new year! Finding you again!! I hope to see you there! Click here to sign up for our upcoming group sessions!
Spending any holiday time, vacation time, family time, or even date time with a covert narcissist is an awful lot like pulling a Chance card in Monopoly. If you are an avid player of the game or even a casual player, then you know that feeling of landing on Chance and having no idea if this is a good thing or not. Will it be a reward of something great or a punishment for an imaginary crime? Either way, it has nothing to do with any action on your part.
With the CN, this can turn out to be a good time, quite enjoyable, a relief that it stayed peaceful and happy or it can be a total disaster and sheer punishment. Not knowing what is coming and knowing the intense negativity that is always a tiny fuse away makes it incredibly difficult to relax and just enjoy. Even when the environment is positive, it is impossible to trust it. Whether things are peaceful and calm or explosive and disastrous depends an awful lot on the covert narcissist's narcissistic supply. Whether their bottomless internal pit of emptiness and insecurity, which constantly needs to be fed, is being filled sufficiently right then. Learning about narcissistic supply can help you to make sense out of this crazy-making situation.
It is so very easy to be consumed by the gloom and doom of life with a covert narcissist. It feels dark, overwhelming and hopeless, and it is. However, there absolutely IS life outside of narcissism! Someone recently reached out to me expressing the need for more episodes with words of encouragement and hope. And what a great time of the year to do so!! So I thank that individual for reaching out to me. I love to hear from you all, so please share your feedback with me. This is your podcast, not mine.Now let’s talk about these holidays that are right in front of us. The holiday season brings out the child in all of us. For many, that’s great. The childlike mindset of hope and expectations. The eagerness for happiness, presents and great food. Songs about peacefulness and love. Expectations of laughing, smiling, and just feeling content. The escape of a few days with no responsibilities, time to rest and simply enjoy each other. Maybe even some snow to really bring out the child in us.
For a covert narcissist, this child that it brings out is very different. Not childlike, but rather childish. "Look at me and how great I am." "What about me," when the conversation wanders or the spotlight shifts around. Snide remarks and sarcastic stabs when they don’t get their way, though they try to play this off as "I was only joking" and blame you for being too sensitive. Unwilling to share YOU with the festivities of the holidays, so their true colors come roaring out.
The holiday season can certainly bring out the worst in a covert narcissist. But you do not have to let them “steal your joy.” Today, I am going to give you three tactics for taking back your holiday joy.
Is It Okay To Care About Them and Still Walk Away?ABSOLUTELY YES!!!I hear so many people questioning themselves about walking away from abusive relationships.
I really care about him/her.
I really do love them. Shouldn’t I stick it out? Don’t all relationships have issues?
I know they are hurting and need to be loved.
I know this will hurt them even more, how can I do that to them?
Does the following sound familiar to you? You are in a relationship, and something in your relationship just isn’t right. Something feels off. Maybe you are having a hard time putting your finger on exactly what it is. But you know that you are not feeling good about it, not feeling happy and content.
You don’t like the way your partner treats you. His (or her) words are harsh and uncaring. Anytime you try to talk with them, it becomes a problem. Why can’t we even have a normal conversation? Everything is combative. Even conversations that should be simple and easy just aren’t. They blame you for everything and refuse to take any personal responsibility for their own words and actions. You feel like you just can’t do anything right, ever.
My relationship with a covert narcissistic husband is the most confusing thing I have ever been through in life. There is absolutely nothing simple or easy about it. I remember the day when I had a powerful revelation. I don’t have to hate him in order to walk away!! It is okay to care about them and yet to simply walk away.
I said to a friend once, “I am afraid to leave my boys at home alone with their father.”
She said, “That is quite alarming and not okay. Why do you say that?’”
I realized right then how incredibly difficult this is to explain. I was not afraid for their physical safety. He wasn’t going to hit them. He wasn’t going to throw things and scare them. Most of the time, he wasn’t even going to yell at them.
But he was going to emotionally dump on them. They were trapped victims to this horrible form of emotional abuse. Something I was even struggling to defend against. They stood no chance.
Venting is a healthy way of letting our trapped feelings find voice and expression. It releases those feelings so the person venting can begin to feel better and look at things more rationally. This is extremely different than emotional dumping, where no one walks away feeling better. Instead everyone feels beaten down and worthless. Today, I explore those differences so you can see and decide for yourself what is happening in your relationship. Individual coaching sessions right now are on sale for $99 per hour through the end of December. Cnglifecoaching.com
Group sessions are on pause for the month of December and will begin again in mid-January.
Covertnarcissism.com
You don’t see it until you see it. You can’t unsee once you see it.
One day, all of a sudden, I just saw it. My thoughts were, "hey this is a problem."
"Something just isn’t right here."
Before this, I made excuses. I justified everything.
He’s not feeling well today.
He had a rough childhood.
He is stressed at work.
He didn’t have siblings.
The kids were being loud and frustrating.
Our son could have been more obedient.
I could have been more understanding.
I could have said that better.
I should have known that would upset him.
Anything and everything except for - he should not talk to us this way. His words are mean and hurtful. His tone is not okay as my partner for life. He is NOT a loving and compassionate person.
Why were those not the things I was thinking and saying? I misdirected the fault for what was going on for years, many years. Laying the blame everywhere except where it truly belonged. Until one day….
I know this nightmare that you are living. I lived it too. I know the daily pain of trying to matter, trying to be good enough, trying to somehow, magically, find peace in your world. A peace that just doesn’t exist.
In this intense nightmare, that beautiful heart of yours separates from your head. It simply cannot take the pain anymore. It is an experience of complete disconnection. Logically, you know a lot of what is going on, but your heart just shuts down. It doesn’t work anymore. This is a level of internal exhaustion that is like no other.
Your heart is so incredibly hurt by the one person who is supposed to be your greatest ally. The one who is supposed to have your back, supposed to stand by your side no matter what. The one from whom you expected the greatest amount of safety and love. The one who said, I do.
Yet this is the one that has brought you to me today. The one who has created so much intense pain inside of you. The one who has disconnected your head from your heart, your mind from your body. A large part of the healing journey is finding you again, reconnecting mind and body, and regaining enjoyment in who you are all over again. Take that journey with me and thousands of others right now!
Does a narcissist ever change? Can they ever get better? Is there any hope?
He/She says that they are working on it, that they are getting help. They even go to therapy. How much time should I give them? How will I know if it is for real?
I get asked this all the time. I have talked with so many who are completely stuck because of these very questions. They say things like - I think he/she is getting better. Things have been calmer for quite a while. They are being more cooperative, nicer, giving me more attention. Maybe they actually get it this time. Maybe this time it will stick. Maybe, just maybe.
So many victims of covert narcissistic abuse stay for years in an abusive marriage, all in the name of “they are getting better.” Progress, they call it. Only to have the abuse return over and over. Each miniscule step of progress just erases each round of bad behavior. Decades later, you realize that nothing has ever changed, ever. You have simply been trapped by pseudo recovery.
How many holidays have you had ruined by a covert narcissist? How many Thanksgivings? How many Christmases or Hanukkah's? How about New Year's?
Holidays are a wonderful time for narcissists to display their horrible behavior. They are often on full steam at such a time that your thoughts are on peacefulness, happiness, family time, making memories with your kids. They choose the absolute worst times to sabotage your attempts at happiness, your attempts at creating a positive environment for the family. Why?
Narcissistic people have a hard time with others being happy, experiencing joy. And it is purely horrible if that happiness and joy is not centered around them. You can’t possibly be happy about anything that isn’t about them. They are so incredibly jealous of anything or anyone else having the power to bring you joy.
The holidays steal their spotlight. So they make great efforts to grab it back. Thus they sabotage the holiday season.
Get through this holiday season with a little extra help and support. Sign up today for a single session of my Holiday Group Special!
https://www.covertnarcissism.com/holiday-session
Did you feel like you had the perfect soulmate for you? I remember saying, You’re like the male version of me, and I’m the female version of you. We just had so much in common and connected on so many levels.
Mirroring is a manipulative tactic used by covert narcissists to charm you and catch you as their prey. However, mirroring plays out in several ways in these toxic relationships. Understanding this can certainly help you to make more sense out of the crazy nightmare.
Mirroring is when one person, consciously or unconsciously, imitates the gestures, speech, patterns, attitudes, beliefs, behaviors, interests of another person. It involves both verbal and nonverbal behaviors.
At the beginning of the relationship, covert narcissists mirror you. They like what you like, love what you love, and want what you want. They agree with everything you say, and even talk like you talk. Using words and phrases you use. These instant connections help you to feel safe and secure, cared for and noticed. You let your guard down, and you over-trust.
Throughout the relationship, mirror imaging is a factor, but not just in one direction. We often end up mirroring them too, which is why so many victims of covert narcissistic abuse come to me asking if they are the narcissist!!
Special offer right now - all individual sessions are only $99 per hour. Sign up today at www.cnglifecoaching.com. I look forward to working with you! I wish you so much peace on your journey of healing!!
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Have you ever been accused of being too sensitive? Being too emotional? Have you ever told yourself that you should be stronger, less emotional? I want to challenge these questions and judgements.
This episode is inspired by the book titled The Highly Sensitive Person’s Guide to Dealing with Toxic People by Shahida Arabi. The subtitle of the book is How to Reclaim Your Power from Narcissists and Other Manipulators. If you have not yet read this book, I do highly recommend it.
The world will tell you that your high sensitivity is a weakness, and too often we believe that ourselves. I am telling you that it is an amazing strength! It is a beautiful thing, and our broken world needs it so badly. You need it! We all need it! Never again will anyone ever convince me that being sensitive or emotional is a weakness. It is a beautiful strength, and I will nourish it!
I want to let you know about a November special that I am running. All of my individual coaching sessions in November are only $99 per hour long session. I will have it ready to go this week. So if you want to take advantage of this offer, go to my coaching website, which is cnglifecoaching.com. I wish you so much peace on your journey of healing!
This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/covertnarcissism/support
This is a special treat from Kentucky in the USA. This is my first ever in-person retreat for members from CNG Group Coaching Sessions.
These are women who have lived this nightmare and are on that healing journey too. Listen to their words, their feelings, their stories, and their hearts. Just like you, they felt alone, worthless, hopeless, and empty. Now we embraced each other with open arms, sharing laughter and tears in an amazing weekend event.
I know you will benefit from hearing from them. I wish you so much peace on your journey of healing!
To learn more about the group coaching sessions, visit https://www.covertnarcissism.com/group-session
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Toxic shaming is about obedience and compliance. Narcissistic people use this tool often to manipulate their victims.
Covert narcissists have a defining sense of being defective and unlovable. This haunts them all their life. It creates a lifelong fight against shame. Shame is an emotion experienced when one’s flaws and deficits become known or when one is afraid they will become known.
They actually get trapped in a cycle of anger when their shame is triggered. Their anger is their way of not dealing with the painful feelings of shame. Instead they just get angry at the person who evoked the shame, whether they intended to or not. They rage at them, blame them, and project onto them. Narcissistic people get stuck in a cycle - feeling shame, lashing out in rage, feeling more shame, lashing out more, and so on. It grows and escalates.
Covert narcissists project all this shame onto you, their victim. They make you look and feel inferior to feed their need to feel superior. They control your self-perception, undermining your self-esteem and driving you towards self-destruction. They manipulate you to take blame for their behavior. They use this shame to isolate you from others.
Intense shame can lead to intense anxiety, self-hatred, withdrawal, fear, addictions, self-harm, anger, and more.
Start learning to speak your truth. Give yourself permission to feel your own feelings and room to be human. It is okay to do things that you could have done better, to say things that you could have said better. There is nothing wrong with this. No one died and made you God that you had to be perfect.
You are human! You are allowed to be human!!
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Last week, I talked about where the story begins. With narcissistic people, their story does not begin with how they treated you. Rather it begins with how you react to their treatment of you.
Today is part two. I am going to give you an approach to boundary setting that has been absolutely life changing for me. A new perspective that allows you to take charge of your own life and be the person you want to be. Such a simple approach, but one we so often overlook.
Highly sensitive people must work extra hard to find ways to implement boundaries. Having to put boundaries in place does not come automatically to highly sensitive people. It is important to know that these boundaries are not for the other person. They are for you.
The kind of boundaries I am suggesting here are guided by your own desires in life. Your desires about who you are and who you want to be. What are your personal character goals?
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I don’t care too much for the word codependent in today’s world. It has come to mean something incredibly negative. It portrays a weak, beaten down individual who has no ability to stand up for themselves. Someone who is emotional and sensitive, and they are told that their emotions are stupid and a waste of time. They are told that they have no self-love and must please others in order to feel adequate about themselves. Codependent individuals are portrayed as carrying a lot of deep internal shame and are looking for external ways to feel better about themselves, to validate themselves. As you learn more about narcissism, this viewpoint can feel incredibly similar to narcissistic people and be quite damaging.
However, we didn't start with all the self-doubt and shame. That’s not where the story begins. It starts with the words of manipulative people, telling us that we should be more of this or less of that. Telling us that we are wrong, over every tiny thing. Competitive and combative in even daily conversations about everyday life. Judging us on every issue, every action, every word. Over time, the victim of this loses themselves. You lose your love for life, your motivation to help others, your caring and generous spirit. The story starts with their abusive behavior towards you!
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The effects of narcissistic control, especially covert narcissistic control, are incredibly subtle and extremely gradual. Little by little, without even realizing it, you fall into the orbit of someone else’s preferences, desires, moods, and wishes. In other words, within their control. Until one day, you wake up and realize that you have altogether forgotten who you are and what you might have wanted in life.
my next round of group coaching begins on October 11 and runs for 6 weeks. Beginning on that day, which is a Tuesday, I am offering a morning session 9-11 am CST and an afternoon session, 12-2 CST. Both of these sessions will fill up. So don’t miss this opportunity to grab your spot in the group. You can reserve your spot through my website at www.covertnarcissism.com
I also have a Saturday morning group beginning on October 22.
Topics we cover include:
- The covert narcissism checklist and how it applies to your specific situation
- Tools for beginning your personal healing journey
- Common traits in victims of covert narcissistic abuse
- Setting boundaries for yourself as your abuser will never honor boundaries
- The Narcissism Spectrum
- Trauma Bonding and how to break free
- Finding yourself again and taking back control of your life
- The Narcissistic FOG
I also offer one-on-one coaching and you can find that at www.cnglifecoaching.com. I wish you so much peace on your own journey of healing.
This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/covertnarcissism/support
I used to describe my husband as being like a guard dog. Always on high alert, looking for any threat to his territory, just waiting to pounce, eager to attack, hyper-sensitive, hyper-alert, always on the prowl.
The first place that I really identified this was regarding our kids. He would sit outside of the room they were playing in, listening and just waiting for them to do something, anything wrong. Then he would pounce on them. He would come boiling in, full steam, so harsh at them, as if what just happened was the worst thing on the face of the earth.
Why do they do this?
So they can have someone or something to blame for their anger. As I have said, the anger is already there. It is always there. But now they have a reason. And once that reason wears off, they have to have another reason. They watch for that reason, for that justification so they don’t carry the blame for their own anger.
Quit trying to do everything perfect for this abusive person in your life. No matter what, they are always going to find a reason to be mad. Remember the anger is already there and actually has nothing to do with you and your actions. They are going to be mad anyways, whether you say or do this or that. It really doesn’t matter. So quit living your life trying to appease that. Quit carrying the blame for their constant anger. That’s not on you!!
To join my upcoming group coaching sessions, visit my website at www.covertnarcissism.com
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Why can’t I leave? What is this crazy ride I am on? One minute I want out so badly, but the next I am fighting to stay. Do I want to stay? Do I want to go? Why can’t I make up my mind? What is wrong with me?
There is nothing wrong with you! You have been a victim of an incredibly powerful manipulation tool called intermittent reinforcement. I am going to describe that tool today and tell you why it has such a strong effect on you and so many other victims.
Intermittent reinforcement is the delivery of rewards at irregular intervals. It is a game of sometimes I validate you and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I reward your positive behavior and sometimes I don't. You, the subject, do not receive a reward each time that you perform a desired behavior. The inconsistent rewards cause us to work harder to get the reward. We pursue it with much more enthusiasm, paying extremely close attention to signs of progress. When it finally comes, the hard earned reward releases huge feelings of relief and success inside of us. And once achieved, the process begins all over again.
I’m Renee Swanson, your host of the CN podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. If you are in need of some guidance through this nightmare, please reach out to me! I offer both group and individual coaching. You can learn more at my website www.covertnarcissism.com. You can email me at renee@cnglifecoaching.com. I look forward to hearing from you.
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I’m so easily upset. I didn’t use to be, but I am now. Is something wrong with me?
I’ve become so reactive. The smallest things really upset me now. Am I the problem?
I'm on high alert all the time. I feel defensive and easily triggered. Am I the narcissist?
We all have a built in warning system. It is designed to keep us safe from harm. This warning system causes us to feel anxious and upset, on high alert, on edge, not trusting the situation, and incredibly uncomfortable. The warning system is designed to keep us safe from harm. It is the bells and whistles to alert us to potential danger. Your warning system is not broken!
I meet with so many victims of covert narcissistic abuse. I meet in both individual sessions and in group settings. So many victims ask what’s wrong with them. They ask if they are the narcissist, if they are broken.
I am here to tell you now that your system is NOT broken. Your heart, body, soul and mind are trying to keep you safe from danger. You need to learn to listen to your system, to trust it, to interpret its messages, and to communicate with it.
If you are in need of individual coaching or would like to work in a group setting with other victims, please reach out to me. You can learn more about what I offer at www.covertnarcissism.com or at www.cnglifecoaching.com
You can also email me at renee@cnglifecoaching.com
If you missed the episode on Cognitive Dissonance, listen to it here.
This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app
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When living in an abusive situation, a victim often becomes reactive. The environment is not emotionally safe. You are walking on eggshells every day of your life. Your mind is in hyper-drive and hyper-alert all the time. You never feel good enough for this abusive person. You can’t ever do anything right. You are constantly judged and blamed. Your thoughts and feelings never matter. You have no space to be human.
This is a traumatic environment. It is incredibly damaging and leaves significant imprints in your mind, heart, soul and body. Even when we have left the situation, these imprints are still there. Piles of them. This is a thousand bee stings. These imprints are easily triggered, causing major reactions in us that do not match the current situation. How do we handle these triggers and stop those intense reactions?
To learn more about an Energy Burn, listen to my previous episode - Two Tools for Healing from Covert Narcissistic Abuse
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Covert narcissists have an insatiable need for constant validation. It is an addiction for them. They have to be fed ALL the time. And it will still never be enough.
Their need for validation is like a cup with no bottom. You pour in all this positive energy, and it just flows right out the other end and is gone. No matter how much you love them, respect them, admire them, care for them, approve of them, build them up, it will never be enough.
They only see all the ways that you don’t. Any tiny criticism, disapproval, neutral though, or even just a simple giving your attention to something or someone else.
If I’m quiet one evening, maybe I’m tired, have a headache, deep in thought about life or worried about a friend, or even just peacefully quiet, pondering the good things of life. All of this will cause the covert narcissist to go into that “feed me” mode.
It’s like a panicked place on their end of - uh oh, what’s wrong? Why are you quiet? Are you mad at me? Did I do something wrong? Are you upset with me? Do you still love me? Are you leaving me?
It is always all about them. It is like they are a hawk watching everything you do or say, the look on your face, the way you breathe, and interpreting everything as though it ALL has to do with them.
It doesn't matter how much you tell them and show them that you love them. It is never enough!
www.covertnarcissism.com
www.cnglifecoaching.com
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When you are with a covert narcissist, you gradually and even completely disappear as an individual. You no longer matter in your world. They completely rule the environment. They are the one in charge of the dance that is going on between you and them. Their moves are the ones that decide the direction you go. Today I am discussing two distinct ways that this plays out - their timetable is the only one that matters and their mood sets the mood of the home. These two things, among others, put the covert narcissist in charge of the environment within the home and creates an unstable and hostile atmosphere.
You can learn more about the work of Renee Swanson at www.covertnarcissism.com
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Anyone who is here listening to this podcast is dealing with an emotionally unavailable person. A person who does not have clearly defined boundaries nor honor your clearly defined boundaries. A person who is not emotionally safe for spontaneous and easy interactions.
In all these podcast episodes, I talk through many characteristics of a covert narcissist. If I had to briefly define a covert narcissist, it is a person who is psychologically and emotionally unsafe and damaging to those closest to them in ways that are subtle, passive aggressive, and not perceived from the outside.
Think about that definition for a minute. Psychologically and emotionally unsafe and damaging to those closest to them and not visible to the outside world. Now make them a parent to a child. Born completely vulnerable and unprotected. At the complete mercy of their parents’ care. In need of all care begin provided for them - physically, mentally, emotionally, psychologically. This situation is incredibly difficult and painful. I address it in this episode.
If you want my book called Parenting with a Toxic Partner, it is available on Amazon.
For more information on my group coaching sessions, visit www.covertnarcissism.com/group-session
Or email me at renee@cnglifecoaching.com
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How do I explain this abuse to friends and family who don’t get it.
How do I tell them? People who I really want to understand it. I want them to know why I’ve done some of what I’ve done. I want to hear my side of the story. I want them to think better of me.
I understand that drive to explain it to others. You want them to know you. You want them to hear you. I am going to use a couple of analogies today, one to better explain why they just won’t get it and one that you can use in explaining it to them to a certain degree.
I will tell you now that you cannot truly explain this to someone who has never lived it. They won’t fully get it, not entirely. Can they sympathize with you? Yes, if they are empathetic people. But they still won’t entirely understand.
And they don’t have to. You have nothing to prove to anyone anyways. Please know that others are not going to get it, at least not entirely.
Remember, you do not owe an explanation to anyone. You have nothing to prove and do not need to defend yourself to anyone. It truly does not matter what anyone else thinks of you. Those who won’t show you empathy and compassion do not need your time in that way. That is their problem, not yours. Those who offer that emotional safety to you and give you the space to talk about it or not as you need, those are the ones to lean on.
For more information on our upcoming group sessions, please visit https://www.covertnarcissism.com/group-session
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How in the world do we set boundaries with a covert narcissist? How do we protect ourselves from all the damage they are doing?
The boundaries that we need to set are for us, not for them. The boundaries are for you. Setting boundaries for them is like giving them a challenge. It’s game on, basically a guarantee that this will do it.
Here are 4 boundaries for you to consider and work on!
- Stop explaining yourself to them, defending yourself
- Stop making yourself vulnerable to them
- Stop expecting them to change and stop trying to help them change or to fix them
- Stop making excuses for them
In this episode, I explain the need for these boundaries as well as how to implement them. Be patient with yourself as you go through this. It is not a one-time event, and it is not easy.
The only people who get upset about you setting boundaries are the ones who were benefiting from you having none.
To join my next group coaching session, visit www.covertnarcissism.com/group-session
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In today’s world, the word narcissism is extremely common. It is getting thrown around in many relationships, homes, places of business, schools. All over social media. Victims identify it in their abusers. Abusers throw the accusation back at their victims.
The word narcissism is being used by many that have no idea what it means. They get mad at someone and immediately call them a narcissist. They don’t like their opinion or have a disagreement, and the word narcissist comes flying out.
Therapists, counselors, psychologists, experts in the field are trying to get on top of this staggering rise in narcissism and the confusion that is running with it.
Lawyers and mediators struggle to figure out reality with those they are working with. Judges are so overwhelmed by all this that many of them don’t even allow the word narcissist to be used in their courtrooms anymore.
Side by side with this is a rise in the use of the word codependency. Another word that is being thrown around and is often misunderstood and misused. Some lay it all on the victim, saying “It’s your fault that you allowed all this abuse. It’s your codependency issue.” Only adding to the confusion so many victims already suffer from. Others get defensive and label this victim-blaming, standing up for those who have found themselves trapped in abusive relationships, just trying to make the best of it. Some victims relate to the codependency language and find a lot of healing in exploring that path. I would never take that away from them. However, others are powerfully repulsed by it.
This all gets extremely chaotic and confusing. I would like to share my view on codependency with you today.
To learn more about my upcoming group coaching sessions and to register for your spot, please visit https://www.covertnarcissism.com/group-session
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Relationships with covert narcissists often last years and decades. Why? Why did I stay for over 2 decades with this verbally, emotionally, psychologically abusive man? Why didn’t I see it sooner?? Is there something wrong with me that I didn’t see it? Because covert narcissists are experts at giving just enough to keep you hooked!!
The Covert Narcissist is Just Enough
Just enough good to keep you in, Just enough bad to chase you away
Just enough good to make you feel loved and cherished, Just enough bad to make you feel wounded and empty
Just enough good to make your heart sing, Just enough bad to destroy that very heart
Just enough good to to keep you invested, Just enough bad to leave you doubting
Just enough good to give you hope that you are making progress, Just enough bad to leave you feeling despairing and trapped
Just enough emotional expression to make you think they are sensitive and vulnerable, Just enough harshness and blaming to guarantee they have no compassion
Just enough innocence and baggage to appeal to your sympathy for them, Just enough guilting and blaming to destroy that very sympathy
Just enough effort to make you the bad person if you leave, Just enough blame to know the effort is a lie
Just enough good to convince you to stay in the relationship, Just enough bad to make you want to run away screaming
Just enough good to convince the world they are amazing, Just enough bad for you to know the truth
Just enough good to confuse you, Just enough bad to confuse you
A covert narcissist is just enough
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Welcome back to the covert narcissism podcast. I’m Renee Swanson, your host. Last week we started talking about Love bombing. What is it? How is it different from genuine relationships? How do I keep from falling prey to this again in my future relationships?
If you missed last week’s episode, please go back and listen to that one first. Then pick it up here.
People often talk about love bombing that happened at the beginning of the relationship. However, relationships with toxic people don’t always start this way. In fact some relationships with a CN do not begin with love bombing. Love bombing sometimes happens in the middle of the relationship. Adding even more to the confusion.
Which is the real him/her? Are they this loving and caring person I thought they were and they just have some bad times or unhealed trauma? Are they a mean and spiteful person and they just have some good times and loving moments? How do we answer this? How do we find the truth?
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Love bombing is when one person is overly attentive to the other, absorbed by them, and uses this to gain control and to manipulate the other. They consume you with their love, attention and affection. However once you are under their spell, their behavior turns and the devaluing begins. The cycle of love bombing and devaluing is an integral part of the relationship with a covert narcissist.
Love bombing can erase weeks and even months of bad behavior. We talk a lot about the ugly side of covert narcissism, the circular conversations, the blaming, the gaslighting, the projecting, and so on. If that is all we ever got, many of us would have left these relationships far sooner.
However, the love bombing confuses us greatly.
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This special extra-long episode is an incredibly helpful interview with Ross Rosenberg. We talk about his book, The Human Magnet Syndrome, the draw that happens between narcissistic people and their victims, a new look at codependency, and how to begin that healing journey. What starts off as the codependent’s dream “soul mate” almost always transforms into their nightmare “cellmate.”
Ross Rosenberg, M.Ed., LCPC, CADC, is a psychotherapist, educator, expert witness, and celebrated author. He's a global thought leader and renowned clinical expert in codependency, trauma, pathological narcissism, narcissistic abuse, and addictions. Ross's pioneering codependency contributions are responsible for the sweeping theoretical and practical updates and a treatment program that permanently resolves it. His YouTube channel best illustrates his global impact with 22 million views and 231K subscribers, and his Human Magnet Syndrome books (150K sold in 12 languages). In addition, Ross has been featured on national TV and radio and is a regular radio and podcast guest.
https://www.selfloverecovery.com/
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“You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?”
Now that I have shown how I will treat every word that comes out of your mouth, you better just shut up. I’m better than you at manipulating things, turning things against you, controlling you. This is my territory. This in a marriage! So condescending. So hurtful.
It’s no wonder that we quit talking to them. So many victims shut down and go grey rock and don’t even understand why. They don’t even know what that is, but do it out of survival.
So what should those rights be? What do they look like in a healthy relationship? I re-wrote them:
"You have the right to be you. Anything you say can and will be heard and valued. You have the right to speak your mind. If you do not know how to speak your mind, I will wait patiently and eagerly to hear your thoughts. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, are you open to speaking with me?"
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I often get asked:
- Why did this happen to me?
- How did I get here?
- How do I prevent it from ever happening again?
- How do I heal from this?
These are excellent questions and they are very related to each other. Why did this happen to me has a whole lot to do with how do I prevent it from ever happening again. How did I get here is tied closely with how do I heal from this.
You need to know about Radical Personal Responsibility - Your special weapon that is unreachable for narcissistic individuals.
Taking control of your own internal world is absolutely one of your greatest tools and something that covert narcissists can never do!! I want to explain this tool to you and then teach you how to use it. The first step is to become aware of your autopilot!
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What a privilege it is to introduce to you Debbie Mirza! She is best-selling author of the book "The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist," one of the first books I ever read that opened my eyes to the nightmare that I was living. This book is an amazing resource for gaining awareness and understanding of covert narcissism.
Her second book "Worthy of Love' presents a gentle and restorative path to healing after narcissistic abuse. Debbie is a beautiful testimony that healing is possible and thriving is obtainable.
She is currently working on her 3rd and potentially final book in this mini-series. I look forward to reading that book as soon as it is available.
Debbie has such a gentle and tender heart for survivors of narcissistic abuse. Her gentle spirit and empowering strength are so encouraging and inspiring. She shows us all that it is possible to stand up for and protect yourself and yet maintain that kind and compassionate self that we all desire to be.
To learn more about Debbie's work, visit www.debbiemirza.com
June 1 is World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day. In honor of that day, for the entire month of June, I am offering all individual sessions with at a discounted rate of $99 per hour. We can meet once or we can meet as many times as you want. If you would like to take advantage of this offer, shoot me an email at renee@cnglifecoaching.com
I also want to take a quick moment and remind you that my next round of group sessions is beginning on May 31. I only have a few spots left in these groups. You can choose between Tuesday mornings or Saturday mornings. Each group runs for 6 weeks. We meet for 2 hours on Zoom each week. You receive handouts and worksheets each week. Each group consists of 10 group members, who just like you are struggling through a relationship with a covert narcissist. It is incredibly empowering to work in a group setting where you receive so much validation for the pain, confusion and doubt that you are experiencing. If you want one of these few spots remaining, please do not hesitate to contact me. These groups will fill up.
renee@covertnarcissism.com or renee@cnglifecoaching.com
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Have you ever tried to figure out someone’s true intentions? Have you been suspicious of the intentions behind one’s behaviors? Have you ever asked yourself, Yeah but what do they really want?
Covert narcissists hide their true intentions. You can feel this when you talk with them. Something just doesn’t feel quite right. It doesn’t feel genuine. Everything they do and say has a hidden agenda. What is that agenda? What are their true intentions?
The true intentions of a covert narcissistic person are:
- to rely on others to build them up, to build their self-esteem
- to earn compliments and recognition
- to gain admiration and the feeling of being important
- to confirm that they are better or higher in status than you
- to create confusion in others so they can maintain their superior confidence over your obvious inferiority
- to win your apologies and continue to boost their superiority
- to validate that they are a good person
How do we know this? How can you identify it in your own situation? What do you do about it?
To join our upcoming group coaching session, reach out to me at renee@covertnarcissism.com or renee@cnglifecoaching.com
For more information on the group sessions, visit https://www.covertnarcissism.com/group-session
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Since you are here listening to this, you have probably done some amount of research into narcissism. By now, you have probably run into the word projection as it relates to narcissism.
A relationship that is built on projections and expectations is a relationship that is doomed to struggle. I talk about this a lot in my group coaching program, but I have realized that I have never done a podcast episode on it. It is definitely time!
Let’s define what projection is. It is the process of misinterpreting what is on the inside of us as coming from the outside of us. Most people refer to projection as what the narcissistic person does, and they certainly do. However, projection is not limited to them. It affects all of us.
Good people project their goodness onto others and bad people project their badness. Good people expect good behavior from others and bad people expect bad behavior from others.
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I was SO good at sweeping things under the rug! I could take any huge bad things that happened and just make it disappear.
Do you know what I mean? Have you ever experienced this?
Maybe you have heard this phrase before and don’t really know what it’s talking about. I am going to explain it right here and give you personal examples from my world.
I recently realized that the broom I used the most actually has a title. Here’s what I mean. Sweeping things under the rug refers to all the times that we make excuses for someone’s bad behavior. We don’t hold them accountable for what they have said or done. We push it aside and move on. Some refer to this as forgive and forget. We might try to pretend it never happened. We convince ourselves that this person didn’t mean it or was having a bad day or any other excuse we can come up with.
Well, my broom that I recently discovered was that All marriages have problems. I could erase any bad behavior with this broom, sweep it right away. Whoosh, under the rug it goes. What broom are you using??
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I can’t keep living like this. I’ve tried everything I know to try. Things might get better for a little while, but it never lasts. I continuously find myself right back in the same place. Over and over trying to explain how I feel and everything is always flipped back at me. I’ve been doing this for years, or even decades, and I just can’t do it anymore. I’ve tried everything I can try. I’m damaged. My kids are damaged. I’m done. I want out, now what?
That very thought can be intensely overwhelming! Getting out of the relationship can seem impossible. How will I support myself? What about our kids? How will the family all react? How will he/she react? How do I tell them? What am I thinking? I can’t possibly do this.
It is very easy to stay in the relationship because it seems like the simpler answer. Even the thought of trying to leave can send us into a whirlwind. Heart racing, stomach feeling like it is trying to turn inside out, body tense, mind racing. How can I even be considering this?
I know these feelings all too well. I never thought in a million years that I would be taking those steps. I never saw it coming. But I just could not stay. I had tried everything I could possibly try. I didn’t have anything left in my tank. And I could not continue this way.
Do I file first and then tell him? Do I move out first? Do I tell him first? Do I pack bags? Do I tell him to leave? What do I do first?
There are so many different ways that all this happens. There is no magical “right” answer. The path is different in every situation and at the end of the day is not the most important piece. The important part is that you found your voice and your strength.
They are going to be upset no matter how you tell them. In person, by phone, write a letter. Say it this way or that way. It truly does not matter. Do you really think that you can find the magical way where they will not be angry?
So do what feels right to you. You have spent enough time and energy trying to figure out how to not upset them. You have tap danced around them enough.
Email me at renee@covertnarcissism.com or renee@cnglifecoaching.com
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Can you get PTSD or CPTSD from a relationship with a covert narcissist
100% yes!! Let’s talk about PTSD and CPTSD in relation to narcissist abuse. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is trauma response triggered from a single terrifying event, such as:
- natural disaster
- home intrusion
- car accident
- serious injury
Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is trauma responses developed from ongoing or chronic trauma. It is prolonged traumatic events, such as:
- ongoing abuse
- childhood abuse
- domestic violence
- kidnapping, enslavement
- prisoner of war
The majority of people exposed to trauma do not develop long-term post-traumatic stress disorder. It is important to get help and support to prevent our normal stress reactions from developing into PTSD. A vital piece of this is the deep human need to feel safe. You need emotional safety.
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I would never have said that abandonment was a concern for me in my marriage. He was never going to leave me. He would never run off with another woman. I knew that he would always be home in the evenings and on the weekends.
Other people talked about the issue of abandonment. Some narcissists do run off with affairs. They discard their victim simply to get another one. But that didn’t apply in my situation. So I really didn’t think that abandonment was an issue for me.
Until one day, I opened my eyes and realized I was wrong. I was absolutely dealing with abandonment. He abandoned me within our home every single day. He completely isolated himself constantly. He lost himself in video games and movies for hours on end. This was every evening after work, every weekend, every holiday, every vacation, no matter where we were or who we were with. He disengaged from our lives. He checked out completely again and again and again!
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Let’s remember what trauma bonding is - In a simple definition, it is when the one who has hurt you is the one you turn to help you feel better. Trauma bonding feels like, “you’ve broken me into pieces but you’re the only one who can fix me.” The more you reach out to this covert abuser for love, recognition, comfort, validation, support, reconciliation, or closure, the stronger the trauma bond becomes.
You could even call trauma bonding a conditioned dependency. You have been conditioned to rely on this person to help you feel relief from your internal stress. They make you hurt by the way they treat you, and they make you feel better because a healthy relationship with them is what you desire. No one else can make you feel better about that relationship. They can talk with you about it. They can help support you and care for you. But no one can take away that deep internal pain that an intimate covert abuser causes. So you continue to do everything in your power to make peace with this person. You dig in so hard because you desire it SO much!
So what do we do about it? I’m going to give you 10 strategies. All 10 might not apply to you. All of us are different. Take the ones that feel right to you and start applying them to your life. Later come back and listen again, you might find a few more that will help you in the new place that you are in.
For more information on working with me, contact me at renee@covertnarcissism.com or visit our website www.covertnarcissism.com
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Why can’t I actually leave this relationship? I want to! I’m tired of being treated this way. I’m tired of the ups and downs. I want stability. I want peace. I want less drama. Why can’t I actually walk away? Why do I keep coming back? Why do I continue to give them another chance, over and over? What is wrong with me? Am I crazy?
If this is you, what you are experiencing is trauma bonding. Trauma bonding keeps us tied to this person, no matter how badly they treat us. How does this work? Trauma bonding occurs when a narcissistic person repeats a cycle of abuse with a target which fuels a need for validation and love from the person being abused. It is a psychological addiction and a survival tactic developed by the victim.
Trauma bonding develops due to a cycle of intermittent rewards and punishments and a conditioning of the victim. The victim, you build hope, eagerly awaiting the next positive time together and a reprieve from the suffering. You do everything in your power to help this to happen, just knowing that it will come. That confidence is there because you do consistently get breadcrumbs of very loving and rewarding moments.
The more you reach out to this covert abuser for love, recognition, comfort, validation, support, reconciliation, or closure, the stronger the trauma bond becomes. The longer period of time or more cycles that you have lived through with this abuser, the stronger the trauma bond is.
For more information on our group coaching sessions, visit www.covertnarcissism.com/group-session or email me at renee@covertnarcissism.com
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There is a reason that this word FOG always appears in capital letters now. It is an acronym for Fear, Obligation and Guilt. These words explain the progression of things for the victim of narcissistic abuse, and even more so with covert narcissistic abuse.
The internal reaction of, “I’ll never do that again,” or "I'll never say that again," is the beginning of FEAR. Whatever it was that provoked that reaction from them that you just experienced, you will now avoid at all costs. Fear of their anger, their rejection, their judgment, even their silence.
Not even aware of the driving force of fear in our lives, it becomes an unspoken mission to keep him/her happy, or at least not angry. It becomes our duty, our responsibility, our job, our OBLIGATION. I "should" make them feel better. I "should" keep peace with them. I "should" be more affectionate. I "should" be more clear with my words. And so on.
Living a life out obligation is a sure way to live a life out GUILT. Now I feel guilty for falling short of these obligations. I feel guilty when I no longer want to fulfill these obligations. Covert narcissistic abuse gets inside our very core and leaves deep, deep wounds. We join the abuser in abusing ourselves when we add our own guilt to the dynamic at play.
You have been made to feel guilty and responsible for any and every bad thing that has ever happened or ever will happen. In this thick FOG, you cannot see clearly. You are disoriented and confused. Things don’t make sense. It is no wonder that you don't feel like yourself anymore. It is time to get out from under this FOG and find you again.
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Last night, I was caught off guard with a question I had not really thought about. I was not prepared to answer this question about my journey with a covert narcissistic husband. Here's the question:
Name 3 significant landmarks along the way. Three things that boosted me forward on this journey and got me to where I am today.
At first, I only thought of external events. Things that actually took place on a specific day and involved people in my life. These events were what I named at the time. But later that night, I thought more about this question. These were the truly life-changing moments for me. Yes, they were a significant part of my journey, but they aren't really what got me to where I am now.
The truly life-changing landmarks were internal! These were the moments that really shot me forward. They were the light bulb moments, the A-ha moments. In these moments, the FOG lifted significantly, and I made gigantic leaps in my journey. These were momentous steps towards saving ME, finding ME, and healing ME. These are my true landmarks!
To learn more about my group coaching sessions, visit https://www.covertnarcissism.com/group-session
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I mean everything!! You never feel safe interacting with this person. This is why this particular type of abuse is so exhausting. While the abuse may not be constant, the risk of it is. The potential is always there. You never know with anything you say or do if it will set them off.
When you are with a covert narcissist, everything you do gets used against you. Everything you say. Everything you do. Even every kind or compassionate act you do.
In this episode, I give you personal examples from my own marriage to a covert narcissist. When you hear how ridiculous these situations are, please reflect on your own experiences. How do they treat you? Are you safe with them, physically, but also emotionally and mentally?
When they don’t make it safe for us to talk to them, help them, support them, and so on, we simply quit doing it. When others make it hard to help them, people stop helping! This is completely understandable. Put boundaries in place that protect you, your heart, your mind, your soul. We will be talking more about boundaries in future episodes!
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Are you trying to decide if all you are going through is "normal," or if it is fair and reasonable?
In the last two episodes, I have talked about the codependency traits that so many victims have in common and the eternal victim role that covert narcissists play. These two things get trapped together so incredibly often.
On one side, you have a person who does no self-reflection, no self-improvement, and no internal work. Instead they express out all the ways they have been hurt in life. The abuse they suffered as a child. The mistreatment from parents, siblings, friends. The abuse they suffered from previous relationships, leaving them “broken” and insecure. The ways that everything you say hurts them, reminds them of their past abuse, resurfaces their hurt self. The eternal victim!
On the other side, you have a person who desires to care for others. To build other people up. To help others become the best they can be. To “fix” them. To save them. Willing to do the extra work. Willing to give the benefit of the doubt. To carry extra blame so the other person doesn’t have to. To carry your own load and half of theirs too. To look at your own smallest faults and blame these over the massive faults the other person displays. To hold yourself accountable for everything, while letting them off the hook for anything.
This is NOT a good combination! Works out great for the covert narcissist, who does none of the work and does anything they want all the time. It is horrible for their partner, who does all the work and never does anything they themselves want.
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I hear so many people who have lived with a covert narcissist describe this person as a victim of everything. They can make everything be an attack on them or another way they got slighted.
Covert narcissists love to play the victim role. They see themselves as an eternal victim. They will deny this of course. If you try to talk to them about it, then they will often react with sullenness and despair at how much your words are hurting them. Taking them right back into that victim role. Of course, you can’t say this is exactly what I am talking about because they will just loop it right back around on you.
It isn’t always clear as to whether they actually truly see themselves as victims or not. Do they believe they are victims or are they just manipulating the social situation to feed their intense need for attention? This is not always clear. But regardless, the victim mentality fills many of the needs of a covert narcissist. It goes hand in hand with many of the characteristics of narcissism, and we are going to explore this today.
This victim role is so damaging when you, as a kind, caring and compassionate person, have a burning desire to help others, to treat others with respect, to care for others. We often go too far in believing that their pain and suffering is all our fault. If you are struggling with this, please listen to this episode today!
Join us on Patreon for continued support as you heal from covert narcissistic abuse. The more people we can reach, the more fuel we take away from narcissists. Maybe, just maybe, together we can stop its spread! www.patreon.com/covertnarcissism
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I now know the role that my own codependent tendencies played in creating this match. This match that I was convinced was made in heaven. This match that I truly believed was perfect. This match that was such a disaster. This match that nearly destroyed my own health and the lives of my boys.
I realize now how much my own background played a part in all of this. How that very background could cause me to easily repeat this pattern, like so many do. So many victims leave one abusive relationship and walk directly into another one. I get asked so often, how do I break this cycle of toxic relationships?
Start by looking, not at those you are with, but instead directly at yourself. Your own tendencies, your own survival skills, your own reactions, your own expectations, your own boundaries or lack thereof. Let’s look at YOU!
NO, this isn't your fault in any way!! You didn't ask for the abuse in any way! But these codependent tendencies make us huge targets for narcissistic people, especially covert narcissists. It is time to break this cycle!!
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Grasping covert narcissism is like grasping the wind. It is here one minute and gone the next. We think we have a solid grasp on it only to watch that slip away. This only adds to the confusion we have, causing many victims to slip back into the cycle and blame themselves once again. Because of this, I am adding a Wednesday podcast that is a midweek check in. This will be brief reviews of key elements to keep present in your mind. My goal is to help you keep clarity on how you are feeling and why, on what is going on in your world, and to help you stay on a path of healing. Today's episode focuses on two things: Circular Conversations and the Agonizing Lack of Give with a Covert Narcissist
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The entitlement of a narcissistic person screams, "I am special simply because! I am better than everyone. I am more important than everyone. Everyone knows I am special and should treat me as such."
Individuals with narcissistic tendencies expect special treatment. They feel that good things should come their way simply because of who they are. Not because of anything they have or haven't done, but rather just because they "deserve" it.
They believe that they are superior to others and thus deserve special treatment. They expect more respect and more attention, often demanding treatment that is different from everyone else and not at all reasonable. In fact, it is often quite shocking behavior from a full-grown adult.
Where does this entitlement come from? From a deep internal emptiness. We are going to talk about that emptiness, where it comes from and how it plays out with covert narcissists.
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Hi, I’m Renee Swanson. Host of the covert narcissism podcast!
Narcissism is a very common word in today’s world. Narcissists are the arrogant, self-centered, loud life of the party, who only talk about themselves, bragging and over-exaggerating their achievements.
Covert narcissists aren’t like this. They hide their narcissism to an insane level. Not only does the world not see it, but the victim doesn’t see it. Even the covert narcissist can convince themselves that they are caring and compassionate people.
They carry the same traits of arrogance, superiority, entitlement, hyper-sensitivity and so on. But they hide them behind a facade of humbleness, quietness, compassion, and even insecurity.
Learning to see through their masks, their games, their manipulations. Learn to protect yourself from their abuse.
Join me and thousands of others today through the covert narcissism podcast. You can find my podcast anywhere that you consume the podcasts that you enjoy. You can also join us in our closed Facebook group, Covert Narcissism Group. I wish you much peace on your journey of healing!
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Covert narcissists are experts at passive aggressiveness. They have this down so well. As a victim of the abuse, we are so conditioned that we don’t see it! Cognitive dissonance keeps us blind to so much for so long. I tell you now though, once you start to see what is going on, you cannot unsee it. Once you cross that threshold, you can’t go back. The door behind you closes and locks.
Can you put the passive aggressive behavior into words? Can you describe it, define it, explain it? Can you give examples or do they seem to just disappear into the wind? Is it clear in your mind or are you feeling the fog of an abuse victim?
Their expertise in passive aggressiveness adds so much to the confusion already happening within a victim’s mind. Covert narcissists often use passive aggressiveness to avoid confrontation, to get their way, to make the other person feel bad, to be able to avoid blame and responsibility.
Today, I give you some specific characteristics and examples of passive aggressive behavior.
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Grasping covert narcissism is like grasping the wind. It is here one minute and gone the next. We think we have a solid grasp on it only to watch that slip away.
This only adds to the confusion we have, causing many victims to slip back into the cycle and blame themselves once again.
Because of this, I am adding a Wednesday podcast that is a midweek check in. This will be brief reviews of key elements to keep present in your mind.
My goal is to help you keep clarity on how you are feeling and why, on what is going on in your world, and to help you stay on a secure path of healing.
Today’s episode is an inside look at 4 specific issues
- Covert narcissism and hyper sensitivity
- A Thousand Bee Stings
- Why it is so hard to explain covert narcissism to others
- Why do covert narcissists seem so genuine
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I was so excited for the day that my husband was to move out of our home. I just knew how happy I would be. You could not erase the smile off my face as he was loading his last load. Finally!! This day was here. He would no longer be in my home. My home!! That sounded so amazing. He drove off with his last things. I just knew I would be dancing in the street.
But I wasn’t. I was overwhelmed with emotions I didn’t expect. I dropped on my bed and sobbed. I cried for many days. Why? This isn’t what I expected. My heart was heavy. My stomach was a wreck. My mind was numb. My emotions were all over the place. My body simply did not want to function.
But I thought I would be rejoicing. I had been looking forward to this day for so long. Why am I not happy? Why am I not relieved and peaceful? Is something wrong with me? Did I make a wrong choice? Was I happier in the relationship? Should I call him back? Is something wrong with me?
I’m Renee Swanson, your host of the Covert Narcissism Podcast. Today we are talking about the shock your system goes through when the relationship finally ends. These mixed-up emotions can cause great confusion, leading many victims to break no contact and jump back into the relationship.
Learning about them, identifying them, and building skills to handle them is vital to your journey of healing!!
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I get asked frequently, how do I heal from this? How do you ever get over it? How do you move forward? Will I ever trust again? Can I have a healthy relationship?
These are excellent questions and they go through the minds of many victims of covert narcissistic abuse. The journey is tortuously painful and can seem completely unending. It feels like it will simply last forever. Not only is there no end in sight, there isn’t even a simple path going forward.
If I do this, if I do that, if I go this way, if I go that way. Nothing feels right. Nothing will work. The despair inside the victim of covert narcissism is real! It is deep, overwhelming and suffocating.
The day that your eyes first see this abuse was life-changing. That moment of realization that reality is not what you thought. That maybe, just maybe, this isn’t actually your fault. That first hint of realization. This is commonly followed quickly by glimpses of the realization that you also cannot fix this. These glimpses come in and out of awareness in the beginning stages of recognition.
But once you start seeing it, you can’t unsee it. Once you start knowing it, you can’t unknow it. But now what do you do? How do you move forward when you feel frozen in fear and uncertainty?
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THIS WAS NEVER ABOUT YOU!!
- The way they talk to you
- The way they treat you
- The reactions they have
- The looks
- The silent treatment
- The circular conversations from hell
- The abuse
- All of it
It was never about you. You need to know that. You need to hear what I am saying.
If you want to find healing inside of you, this is so vitally important. This experience you have been through, the pain, the anguish, the anxiety, none of it had anything to do with you.
I’m Renee Swanson, creator of the Covert Narcissism Podcast. You need to hear what I am saying today!
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Survivors of covert narcissistic abuse feel like they are going crazy. They often tell me that they are losing their mind. They don’t know which end is up, what reality is or what to do next. They are often frozen in self-doubt and confusion.
This is because of cognitive dissonance. In this episode, I am going to help you understand what cognitive dissonance is, why it happens, and what to do about it.
Cognitive dissonance is when a single individual holds conflicting attitudes or beliefs within themselves. This goes hand in hand with living with a covert narcissist. It creates that fog that you hear so many talk about. Coming out of the fog is coming out of the cognitive dissonance.
You have forgotten what life is supposed to feel like. You have forgotten how to relax and enjoy the beauty of life. You have forgotten what it feels like to be you! It is time to remind yourself!!
I wish you much peace on your journey of healing!
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Midweek special episode!!
Dr. Melissa Kalt, M.D. specializes in removing the trauma of narcissistic abuse from the body. She brings so much insight to the topic, and I thoroughly enjoyed interviewing her for our audience. This interview is extremely informative and helpful. To further pursue work with her, visit here.
Dr. Melissa is a graduate of the Medical College of Wisconsin – triple-board-certified in Internal Medicine, Pediatrics, and Lipidology. She was voted to the US Best Doctors™ list by her peers year over year 2009-2018. While single parenting five children, Dr Melissa was promoted from staff physician to Assistant Clinical Professor to Medical Site Director of three clinics at Froedtert and Medical College of Wisconsin, an academic medical institution.
By 2012, Dr Melissa had achieved every goal on her over-achiever to-do list yet was miserable.
She began an extraordinary journey that solved her most unsolvable problem. It all started with the question - What if life doesn’t have to be this way? The answer - Connect to the truth of who you are.
Dr Melissa got really clear about who she was, who she needed to be, and what needed to change. She identified, then extracted herself from several narcissistic relationships and committed to healing her family’s trauma.
By extracting the illusion and getting clear about the truth of who she was – everything changed. In 2018, Dr Melissa made the leap to expand beyond the limits of traditional medicine and left her 20+ year medical career to follow her Why. That same year, she found her forever partner in love and business, whom she married in 2019.
Check out her program here!!
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Covert narcissism is messed up! It is so twisted you feel like you are going insane just trying to get a grasp on what’s going on. It is so hard to pinpoint and impossible to describe. You can’t possibly explain it to someone who hasn’t experienced it themselves. Trying to makes you sound crazy, even to yourself. So now you question your own sanity. It is mind-boggling and exhausting. Many victims collapse into a pile of nothing and give up. I don’t blame them. I have been there many times. I know that pain firsthand.
The covert narcissist is a master at appearing innocent, kind, compassionate, generous, sincere, benevolent, and much more. To the world, they look not only normal, but even better. They could convince Mother Teresa that they are the perfect spouse. Yet underneath that, in the most subtle ways, they treat people with contempt, disregard, hatred, condescension, disdain, antipathy, and much more. I felt like one minute I understood and the very next it was gone. It was like I was trying to grasp the wind. One minute it made sense, and the next minute I had no idea.
If I was struggling this much to understand it, how in the world could I expect my friends to understand it. So why do we try SO hard to understand? Why do we research like crazy? Googling, reading, listening, watching. I didn’t work this hard when I was in school, and I was a dedicated student. But this? This I was absorbing 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, trying so hard to figure out what was going on and why.
Join us on Patreon.
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Not only do victims of covert narcissistic abuse not see the abuse, they often join the abuser in abusing themselves. It’s the perfect storm built by this abuser in your life. Their circular conversations, projection, blame shifting, guilt manipulating, and many other tactics leave you, the victim, in complete confusion.
You accept the projecting, blaming and guilting. You defend yourself but the circular conversations convince you that you are wrong. Ultimately, you decide that maybe you are the problem. You blame yourself. You make it all your fault. You do everything you can to fix it.
You hold yourself to unreasonable standards and expectations. While the covert narcissist in your life sits and watches.
You are brainwashed into hating yourself. You squash your own self-esteem without even realizing what is going on.
The self-abuse must stop! You do deserve the help and support! You are worthy of your own love and care.
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If you don't tell me to do it, then it is your fault that it didn't get done. If you tell me to do it, then it is your fault if it doesn't go right.
Have you ever heard these words or experienced these attitudes? Covert narcissists are SO good at dodging responsibility.
I used to wonder why he wouldn’t even choose the restaurant for our dinner. Many years later, I discovered that he wouldn’t choose so that nothing could ever be his fault. Why would he not make the plans for our vacation? But yet he would be so mad at me for the plans I made. He would not make the plans so that nothing would ever be his fault. And yet he would be mad at me because everything was my fault.
He didn’t help do the chores around the house because he didn’t want to do it wrong and make me mad. So he just did nothing! In his mind, then I could not be mad at him because he didn’t do anything wrong.
Blame shifting is a common weapon for a covert narcissist. If you are listening to this today - stop taking the blame for their faults. Stop taking responsibility for their stuff. You are not doing them or yourself any favors. They have their life to live. They have their own crap to answer for. Don’t let them lay this on your shoulders anymore!!
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Narcissism is not a clear cut issue. It isn’t a yes or no answer. It is an extremely complicated issue. One minute you can feel like you have a grasp on it, and the next minute that grasp simply disappears.
You can think you finally understand it and then be at a loss for words in trying to explain it to someone else. “I got it. This makes sense,” you think. The next day you wake up, and everything is all jumbled up again. What really is narcissism? Is this really how he/she is acting? Are they or are they not a narcissist?
Yes they are! Well, maybe they aren’t. No, they can’t be. Yes, they definitely are! Around and around we go inside our own heads.
Narcissism is not a pass/fail test. It isn’t you either are or you aren’t. It just isn’t that simple.
Narcissism is on a spectrum, with extreme codependency on one end and extreme narcissism on the other. In a very simplified explanation, codependency is putting everyone else’s needs far above your own, unable to care for your own needs. Narcissism is putting your own needs far above anyone else’s, unable to care for anyone else’s needs.
This spectrum is not static. People fluctuate on it. Just because you see narcissistic traits does not automatically mean your partner or family member is a narcissist. Equally true, just because you see some compassionate moments does not automatically mean that this person is not a narcissist.
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Memories can absolutely haunt victims of covert narcissistic abuse for years!! They trigger us, causing massive internal reactions. Anxiety, tension, pain in the gut, shaking, twitching, upset stomach, increased blood pressure and heart rate, panic attacks, and so on.
All of this from a simple memory that still haunts you today. This is PTSD and can create problems for years, decades, even the rest of your life.
December 2nd was a significant day in my world with my covert narcissistic husband, who is now my ex. This year I was purposeful about breaking those memories and turning that date around in my world. Here is my story!!
Remember, you are stronger than you know! You can break these internal chains too! I wish you so much peace on your journey of healing.
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This 2-part series on the Narcissist’s prayer serves a guide through the circular conversations and manipulative tactics of a covert narcissist. Each step expresses a ploy used by the covert narcissist to take the pressure off of them and put it onto you.
These tactics include gaslighting, denial, guilt manipulation, passive aggressiveness, blame shifting, victim playing, projecting and a complete unwillingness to have any give.
The covert narcissist might not use these exact words, but the attitudes are definitely conveyed.
- That didn't happen.
- And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
- And if it was, that's not a big deal.
- And if it is, that's not my fault.
- And if it was, I didn't mean it.
- And if I did, you deserved it.
They will absolutely blame you for what they did and use illogical arguments to persuade you. These are even delivered with such conviction that you will find yourself fooled. They will spin the direction of the arguments so quickly that you don’t even know what is going on. You are agreeing with them to keep the peace and don’t even know what you are agreeing to.
You are left utterly confused, while you are apologizing to them! For something…there’s a good chance you don’t even know for what.
Whether you leave or stay is up to you. But make the choice with your eyes open. Know your reality and trust your heart! I wish you so much peace on your journey of healing!
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That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
This short verse illustrates the inner workings of a covert narcissist’s mind. This sums up all the circular conversations, gaslighting, denial, guilt manipulation, passive aggressiveness, blame shifting, victim playing, projecting, and absolutely no give of a covert narcissist.
The truth is simply whatever serves the narcissist at that particular time. This truth changes as needed, sometimes at a very quick pace. This plays into everything we have been talking about on this podcast.
You are left utterly confused, while you are apologizing to them! For something…there’s a good chance you don’t even know what for.
You walk away in total confusion, feeling completely unheard, and having no idea where things are with this relationship. Are we good? Are we getting better? Are we making progress? Whether you leave a relationship or stay is up to you. But make the choice with your eyes open. Know your reality and trust your heart! I wish you so much peace on your journey of healing!
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So how do we build healthy relationships after being with a covert narcissist? How are these trauma responses affecting us still? How do we turn them off?
Our trauma responses to an abusive environment are survival skills and natural instincts under threatening circumstances. They range from physical outbursts of yelling and throwing things to internal reactions of shutting down and internalizing everything. These learned behaviors affect our lives drastically and all of our relationships with others.
Turning these survival tactics off is crucial to setting yourself up for a more relaxed life and healthy relationships. Learning to relax and trust life again are vital steps to break the cycle of abusive partners and to attract healthier people into your life. Here are some specific tools you need for this journey of healing!
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Have you ever wondered if you are the narcissist in this relationship? Maybe you have even been accused of it by your abusive partner? Have you seen glimpses within yourself of narcissistic reactions?
There are very distinct reasons that you see signs of narcissism in you or your children, and they have to do with the survival skills we have been discussing in this series. No, this does not make you a narcissist! I want to explain to you why you see this, what really is happening, and what to do about it.
Narcissism is a learned set of survival skills that becomes one’s entire personality and their way of interacting with their world. Let me explain what I mean. This covert narcissist in your life has put you into an environment where you, over time, begin living from your own survival skills. The trauma responses we have been talking about in this series. I will say again - these are normal and healthy responses to an abusive environment.
One large problem is that they look an awful lot like the survival skills that narcissists live by. They are just glimpses of it, not your entire being, but these glimpses can leave many victims confused and worried.
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Have you ever found yourself to be extremely defensive, feeling the need to protect yourself before anyone even attacks? How about having the burning need to be perfect so nothing ever goes wrong?
When you are living in an abusive situation, physically, mentally, emotionally, psychologically, you develop survival tactics. As a human being, you are wired to protect yourself. This is normal!
The tactical responses we have come from the drive to take the situation at hand and find ways to make it work. It is driven by the intense desire to fix this! You won’t give up on the relationship for whatever reason and are determined to survive this. You might even feel like you are then making it work. I am fixing this! But it isn’t sustainable!!
Defensiveness and trying to be perfect create so many problems in our life and can haunt us as we try to move into future relationships. They work against healthy relationships and can leave you trapped in a cycle of abusive ones. Make a plan for stopping these trauma responses and regaining control of your life again!
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Has your partner ever accused you of pulling away from the relationship? Of shutting down? Of being emotionally unavailable? Maybe you even feel that you are. Then you wonder if this is all your fault for not being engaged with them anymore. This is another example of reactive abuse or trauma response.
My husband accused me of pulling away emotionally. I wanted to scream, Of course I’m pulling away! Even a child knows to pull away when they have been hurt over and over again. I was accused of not being emotionally available to him anymore. Of course I’m not!
I had peeled open my heart and laid it at his feet repeatedly. And he had stomped all over it again and again. You want me to continue making myself available for that??? You can’t be serious? Do you really not understand this? Can you really not see why I pull away?
After all the attempts I made at explaining this to him, I could not believe that he could stand there and tell me that I should be more emotionally available to him! You have got to be kidding me!
Shutting down is a normal and common trauma response to an abusive environment. Don’t judge your responses. They are completely justified and understandable. Identify where they came from. An abusive environment. They are survival skills. But you don’t need these survival skills in a safe environment. As you learn more about them, you will begin the process of letting them go.
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Episode 1 of a mini-series on reactive abuse and trauma responses.
Have you wondered about your own sanity in all of this? Have you reached the end of your limit and simply exploded. Now you are the one yelling and screaming at him? Am I the abusive one? Should they come take me away?
Many victims have had these experiences and thoughts. You are not alone and you are not crazy!
What you are experiencing is often called reactive abuse. Have you ever heard of this? Reactive abuse is the survival skills we build in an abusive relationship just to protect ourselves. We want the pain to stop. We have tried so many other avenues. We are exhausted and now we are out of options. So we become aggressive, like a cornered cat. These are simply reactions to our abusive environment and lack of ability to stop it.
These can be emotional outbursts, yelling, screaming, even hitting. You have reached the end of your rope, just can’t take it anymore, and you explode. It can feel totally out of control and cause major issues for you as people now see you as the violent one.
These reactions can also be much more internal. Shutting down, keeping your mouth shut, unwilling to voice your opinion, giving in, over-thinking, over-analyzing, trying to be perfect.
They can even lie somewhere in the middle. Defensiveness, protecting yourself before anyone even attacks, explaining yourself when you don’t have to, anticipating problems way ahead and trying to divert them.
All of these are trauma responses and reasonable reactions to an unreasonable situation.
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Psychologist Dr. Erica Ellis joins us in this episode. She brings wonderful expertise regarding high conflict divorce and how to protect the children. Dr. Ellis is not only a licensed psychologist, but also a best-selling author, and a leading expert on child centered divorce. After working with over 1,000 divorcing families, many of which were high-conflict, over the past 30 years, she has discovered the crucial steps that every parent must take to protect their children and create a healthy future for their new family.
For more information on her programs, click below:
How to Co-Parent with a Narcissist
The 30-Day Divorce Triage
With her unique approach to divorce, Dr. Ellis has helped countless families navigate the divorce process in a way that reduces conflict, stress, and uncertainty, and sets the children up for a lifetime of healthy relationships, emotional stability, and personal success.
The questions addressed in this episode include:
1) From a psychological perspective, why is it important to understand the difference between a true narcissist vs a person whose behavior/emotions have significantly deteriorated during the stress of a marriage ending?
2) Given how important it is to have realistic expectations for your narcissistic ex’s behavior, can you talk about why parenting itself poses such a challenge for them and how this tends to play out in their relationship with their children?
3) All of those challenges often leave the other parent feeling totally hopeless, helpless, and lacking any ability to protect themselves and their children from any further emotional damage. Can you talk about this sense of powerlessness and your thoughts about how to help people get beyond it?
4) I know that your main focus is on helping parents learn how to best protect their children from divorce-related damage. How is it possible to accomplish that goal when dealing with a narcissistic parent?
For more information on her programs, click below:
How to Co-Parent with a Narcissist
The 30-Day Divorce Triage
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Covert narcissism is so well hidden that most victims have no idea that it is abuse until they are many years, even decades, into a relationship. Some never ever see it.
This is part 2 of the signs of covert narcissism. If you missed part one, go back and listen to last week’s episode. It is titled It’s About What the Victim Doesn’t See.
In that episode I talk about the fact that the victim doesn’t see the abuse. I don’t want to take anything away from the fact that the world doesn’t see it either. They certainly don’t! This is an issue that I will be addressing here in a future episode.
So that last episode is the covert narcissism checklist, and I explain how each abusive characteristic is so easily hidden from the victim.
Now part 2 is about the signs that are in you, the victim. Sometimes the best way to tell if a person is narcissistic is to look at the thoughts and feelings of those closest to them. You need to take a deep look inside of you to see if the signs of abuse are there.
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So you find yourself trying to answer some questions. Is my partner a covert narcissist? Am I a victim of abuse? What exactly is a covert narcissist?
Many people know the term narcissist. We see it as the loud, boisterous person who is always the center of attention. They are arrogant, superior to everyone else, and a know-it-all. They don’t bother trying to hide this and in fact seem to love it about themselves.
You might be thinking, “This description doesn’t quite fit my partner. The arrogance is there, but they aren’t loud and boisterous. Their superiority is so covered that no one really sees it. In fact, I’m not even sure that it is there. They seem to carry some aspects of narcissism, but then again, maybe I’m imagining it.”
I was once asked, “What makes a narcissist covert? Don’t they all do things in secret? Wouldn’t that mean that all narcissists are covert?”
It is true that narcissists abuse behind closed doors. They have affairs in secret and live secret lives. However, with covert narcissists, it isn’t that the world doesn’t see the abuse. It’s that the victim doesn’t see it.
The covert part of narcissism is that you, the victim, don’t see the abuse!! The victim does not know that they are being abused, and this makes it so much worse!
To make matters worse, you begin to talk with your family and friends. And they blow it off. They tell you that you are over-reacting. That you are making something out of nothing. That he is a wonderful person. So you doubt yourself even more!
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I hear so many people say, "My therapist doesn't have a clue about narcissism. And especially covert narcissism." They go to therapy for years and seem to make no progress in healing. Therapists, no matter how good they are, if they haven't lived through covert narcissism, then they will not entirely understand. I was blessed to have found a therapist that understood narcissism. In fact, it was the first therapist I went to regarding my marriage. He was such a huge help to me. He had lived narcissism in his past, so he understood what I was going through. Because so many people are struggling to make progress in healing and struggling to find help, I want to give you two tools that helped me tremendously in my healing journey. These tools came from the work I did with my therapist combined with the massive amount of researching I was doing, and they were life-changing! No one learns as much about narcissism as one who is living it. In my situation, this enormous amount of research paid off!
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I am losing my mind! Apparently everything I do hurts his feelings. I can’t get anything right. I go out of my way to make him feel happy and everything hurts his feelings. I go out of my way to leave him alone and give him space and everything hurts his feelings. One day he says this, the next day he says that. I don’t know what to do anymore. If this is you, you might be dealing with a covert narcissist! Their passive aggressiveness and gaslighting create an environment where you are constantly walking on eggshells around their hurt feelings. You feel totally responsible for their happiness and unhappiness in life. It is not only exhausting, it is impossible! This is a situation where you, the victim/target, are destined for failure. It does not matter how determined you are. It does not matter how educated, experienced, compassionate, or anything else that you are. It simply does not matter! A covert narcissist is the world's greatest victim and passive aggressiveness is one of their most effective tools! Everything you do is capable of hurting their feelings, and I mean everything. It is not possible to know what will and what won't, so you are on guard all the time. And no matter how good your guard is, it will never be good enough!
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A Covert narcissist takes over your life. I have heard so many victims so I don’t even recognize myself anymore. I just want to be me again. I feel like I lost myself.
One of the problems of living with a covert narcissist is that your mind is constantly wrapped up in the past and the future. The present is NOT safe. Out of the need for survival, we stay in the past and future.
One of the pitfalls of covert narcissists is that they are completely wrapped up in their own mind. They are living entirely in the past or the future. Their present moment doesn’t exist. Because you are dealing with them on a daily and intimate level, you are forced into their world of existence.
One of the biggest reasons that victims say I don’t even recognize myself anymore is because they are spending so much energy anticipating and dancing around the expectations of this abuser in their life. The absolute first step is to stop playing their game. As you do, you will start experiencing more and more head space freeing up inside you. You will have room to breathe, room to think, room to find you again.
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How do I fix this? I used to ask that for years. Every day of my life
I can fix anything. If I can just help him to see… If I can just find the right words…
How does this get better? I get asked this by so many people. Victims who are in the exact place that I used to be. Women and men who are desperate for things to get better. And these are people who are willing to do whatever it takes. People who are dedicated with every fiber of their being.
Let me tell you something - Your life gets better when you put yourself back as the main character of your own life.
Who is your current main character of your life? What about of your mental life, your head space?
If you are in an intimate relationship with a covert narcissist, such as spouse or close family member, then that person plays a very dominant role in your mental world. they have their own life to live. You CANNOT live it for them!
This is your life! The only one you get. Be the main character of YOUR story!
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Covert narcissists seem to have absolutely no emotional intelligence, inside themselves or with the world around them. The general consensus is that they have no understanding of basic human emotion, especially other people’s emotions. But even their own.
They continuously stomp all over your feelings and don’t show an ounce of care about it. They can talk harshly and callously one minute and be confused as to why you don’t want to hold their hand or go to bed with them the very next minute.
Even when you try to explain it to them, they seem completely incapable of connecting the dots. In fact, just trying to talk with them about it can quickly start you on a never-ending downward spiral of verbal abuse. And again, the next day, it all just disappears, as though it never even happened in the first place.
It is crazy!!
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There are some things that people should just never say to a victim of narcissistic abuse, and specifically covert narcissistic abuse. As a victim myself, I know that It is so hard sometimes to find people who understand and actually know how to provide the unique support that this victim needs. They need to feel heard and validated in a way that most people don’t seem to understand.
In this episode, I discuss two things that people should never say to these victims, two things that you don’t want to hear in your world right now, and why they are so problematic.
1 - "Well, marriage does take effort."
2 - "You know, It does take two."
Yes, marriage does take work. There are conversations that are hard, but there is a huge difference between conversations that should be hard and those that simply should not. Whether to move or not is a tough decision and should be hard. What do you want for dinner should not be a difficult conversation. Some conversations should be hard, but they should not ALL be hard!
Yes, it does take two to make a strong marriage, but it only takes one to destroy it!
If you are in the position of offering support to someone who is struggling in a narcissistic relationship, please know that this person feels utterly exhausted and completely overwhelmed. They have been working in overdrive and making absolutely no progress. Please do not add to their feeling of hopelessness by telling this these two things. Instead, help them to see that they are not solely responsible for fixing their marriage. It does take two, and they cannot fix this without some give from their partner too.
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Guilt is such a unique thing. It can be wonderful and horrible all at the same time.
Many of us are raised to feel guilty when we do something that we should not or when we hurt someone’s feelings. We are taught that we should feel bad and make it right. This is not a bad thing
Guilt motivates us to apologize. It motivates us to do right and to fix things. Without guilt, we might not make amends. We might not make it right.
Guilt leaves this uncomfortable feeling inside of us and pushes us to resolve the issue at hand. We are motivated to get rid of this feeling. We don’t like it. We want to feel good in the relationship again. We want them to feel better about us again. We work hard to clear this all up.
When dealing with a covert narcissist, it’s a problem. They are manipulators of this guilt. They will use this good trait against you in extreme ways. They will spin everything in just the right way to fully activate the guilt inside of you. They will do it with just enough truth in what they say to cause you to take full responsibility and work so hard to make everything right. Your own good conscience is used against you!
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Many people are struggling to understand what a covert narcissist actually is. I recently heard a podcast that was trying to figure out what a covert narcissist really is. They clearly, like so many, did not understand. I was surprised when they said, "Aren’t all narcissists covert because they all do things in secret?" They were talking about secret affairs, abuse behind closed doors, secret communication, private financial endeavors, and so on. They were questioning if all narcissists were covert. I was happy to hear them recognize that they did not understand and were going to have to do further research.
Being a covert narcissist isn't about having secret affairs or a double life or anything like that. It isn't defined that way. A covert narcissist is a narcissist that hides the arrogance and the feelings of superiority behind a facade of humbleness. They hide their lack of empathy behind a false show of compassion. Some are so good at it that they truly convince themselves that they are a kind and compassionate person. Nothing you say will ever convince them to even consider that they are not.
Covert narcissists often hide behind a facade of shyness, insecurity, introvertedness, and social awkwardness. They hide behind a show of compassion and sacrifice. Covert narcissists really believe in this image that they are portraying. Victims often feel sorry for them and want to help them. This plays a huge role in how we get trapped in these relationships. Covert narcissists are experts at playing the victim role, and I mean experts.
I hope this episode helps you to gain a better understanding of what covert narcissism is. Regardless of what type of narcissism you are dealing with, abuse is abuse and abuse is wrong!
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My covert narcissistic husband loved the word "brinkmanship." He bragged about how no one knows what that word means and how great he is at it. This should have set alarm bells off in my head!! But it didn’t. Sure, I thought it was strange. This seemed like an odd word and an odd concept.
Brinkmanship is the art or practice of pushing a dangerous situation or confrontation to the limit of safety, especially to force a desired outcome, the technique or practice of maneuvering a dangerous situation to the limits of tolerance or safety in order to secure the greatest advantage, especially by creating diplomatic crises.
Little did I know, he had been practicing brinkmanship since his childhood.
He would push situations to their breaking point. He would push me and our kids to the brink, edge of a cliff to get the outcome he wanted. Make us as uncomfortable as he possibly could until we gave in. We gave in to make peace and to keep our sanity. And once again he got what he wanted, to feel in charge, to feel superior, to get out of all responsibility.
Take charge of your life back! The narcissist shows their true colors over and over. Let them. That is theirs to own. Don't let this decide who you are. Don't give them that power over you!
You get to choose who you are! You are in control of your life! Not them!
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Someone who has experienced covert narcissistic abuse is like a grenade inside a tank. On the inside, you are wound up so incredibly tight, over-thinking everything, over-analyzing everything. Just waiting to explode. On the outside, you are a fortress of steel. You have a wall of protection around you, afraid to say anything, to do anything, trusting no one, letting no one in. A grenade inside a tank.
I’m Renee Swanson, your host and creator of the Covert Narcissism Podcast. Today I am talking directly to anyone who is or has been a victim of covert narcissistic abuse. I know your pain first-hand. I have been there, and I want to help.
It is a problem when the survival skills from living with a covert narcissist become a way of life for the victim. We struggle because we carry this on with us even after the relationship has ended.
We leave the relationship and yet our mind is still over-thinking. We are still finding 100 ways to say something to someone. We are anticipating their reactions and defending ourselves before we even say a word. This is not the way to build healthy relationships, and it will affect our future relationships and partner choices.
Please take some time after a relationship with a covert narcissist to become aware of your survival skills. Recognize them as a mode of survival not as a mode of living. As you become more and more aware of this, you will begin to distinguish between survival skills and fully living. You will become more and more in charge of your own life!
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Covert narcissists are experts at hooking a victim back in over and over and over.
They know how to play on your sympathy. They know how to make you feel guilty and responsible for their well-being. They know how to make you feel needed and thus you stay to help them.
So many victims of covert narcissists spend years and decades of wanting to leave the relationship only to be hooked back in again and again.
Start learning what these hooks look like, how to recognize them for what they are, and how to get out of their grip.
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A narcissistic person cannot even do step A to help a relationship. You can wear the entire alphabet out multiple times, and they still haven't even found step A. Not even a tiny step. Nothing!
The level of exhaustion that comes with this is unbelievable. It is a bone dry emptiness. I had absolutely nothing left in my tank. I was on empty!
So why do we wear ourselves out so much trying to make the relationship work? Why do we work so hard at it? What if we put all that effort into ourselves? It is time to offer yourself the same effort that you have offered to this abuser. You deserve it!!
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Victims of covert narcissism have so many questions running through their mind. While I do get asked many questions, some questions show up in almost every conversation.
How did you realize you were with a covert narcissist?
What is a covert narcissist?
What does a relationship with a covert narcissist look like?
What do I do now?
Where can I find help?
I was recently interviewed regarding covert narcissism. In this interview, I answer these questions and more. Here are clips from that interview. I think you will find it helpful for your own journey of healing!
I have an upcoming group coaching session for victims just like you to find healing and support! Email me to learn more at renee@covertnarcissism.com
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Living with a covert narcissist is like trying to live in a war zone or in a courtroom when you are the one on trial.
My son is traveling this week with his dad, who is a covert narcissist. I have been nervous about this trip and sincerely hope that everything goes well for them. I texted my son on their second day out and asked how it was going. His words spoke volumes. He said that it is going ok but it is just hard to relax.
This is exactly how life is with a covert narcissist. You never feel like you can simply relax. This is because you feel like it is never okay to just be you. You can’t voice your own opinion about anything. Everything is met with resistance and invalidation.
You feel like you are living in a courtroom, always on trial, always under attack, always needing to defend your opinions and thoughts. Nothing is ever safe. You remain in a constant state of hypervigilance.
Covert narcissists belittle you for having opinions and thoughts. They put you down, make you feel bad, and confuse you to what reality actually is. They expect you to accept their reality. Anything outside of this is likely to be targeted.
Your mind is always trying to stay ahead of the conflicts. So you build opening arguments in anticipation of a problem. You see potential problems everywhere!
Once in a problem, your mind goes to survival mode. You feel like you are under examination. You try every angle you can to find peace. You might even experience some reactive abuse, where you flare out at your abuser out of desperation.
Last, you never find resolution. So you walk away with your mind now making multiple closing arguments, most of which will never be voiced.
Yet the cycle starts all over again. Your mind is back on watch, trying to anticipate the next problem.
In this episode, I give you some valuable suggestions for finding internal peace after a relationship with a covert narcissist. There is no clear way to do healing, no one right path that fits every victim, no step-by-step instructions. You have to find what fits for you. Taking control of your own healing is one of the valuable steps to taking control of your life again. I hope these suggestions help you find your own path of healing!
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Parenting with a toxic partner is the single hardest thing I have ever done in life. It is a living nightmare!
You are not co-parenting. You are counter parenting. You are working against the negative energy of that other parent. You spend enormous amounts of energy simply trying to counter the damage that they are doing to their own children.
It is exhausting and impossible. Yet for the sake of your own children, it is a task that you will give everything you have in order to be successful. I hope this Q&A session from the Facebook support group, Parenting with a Toxic Partner, will help you on this journey.
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This podcast is audio taken from 2 short video clips that I made just recently. I want to share it here!
The first piece is Shouldn't I just be Grateful that it isn't Worse? So many people have it worse than I do. Should I just be happy that I am not in their situation? Just because others may have it worse (and that is a matter of opinion itself) does not take anything away from the pain you are experiencing. If you are questioning this, please listen to this piece!
The second part is Everything is on Purpose!! The covert narcissist will accuse you of doing everything on purpose to hurt them. You looked at them wrong "on purpose!" You asked a question wrong and you did it "on purpose!" Everything you do, in their eyes, is purposefully done in order to hurt them. They see it that way because everything they do is so heavily calculated and "on purpose." They believe that everyone functions this way.
I am thoroughly enjoying making podcasts and wanted to share with you a glimpse of some of my previous work. I hope that this helps. I wish you so much peace on your own journey of healing!
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Have you ever said...But we have some good times together. Remember that one day…. Remember that one time…. Are you building an intimate relationship on breadcrumbs?
Sure, we would have some good times together. We had evenings that were successful and happy. We had the occasional weekends where his anger stayed in check. But I came to the realization that I was hanging on to those all-too-rare times and pretending that they were our reality. I was desperately trying to build a home and raise kids around that illusion. It wasn't working.
These breadcrumbs make the entire situation worse. If they weren’t there, many of us would leave so much sooner. We probably would not even end up in the relationship in the first place.
But these breadcrumbs give us hope. They give us positive memories to hold on to. Positive times to talk about and to dream about. They are part of what keeps us hooked in these relationships for years or even decades.
After the divorce, I was talking to our oldest son. I had apologized a hundred times to our boys for the environment they grew up in. I apologized for my part in all of it. In this conversation, I told him, “Son, I am so sorry.” He said, “Mom, this wasn’t your fault. You did ABCDEFG….XYZ. Dad wouldn’t even do A. How can this possibly be your fault?”
Maybe you are still trying to find that one right approach, that one magical answer. You are working your way through the entire alphabet, maybe for the 10th time. If he won’t even do the first thing, then why are we wearing ourselves out trying to help? He has a job in this too. He has a part, a responsibility, a role to play. Simply walk away! Quit hanging on to the breadcrumbs!
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Many victims of covert narcissistic abuse wonder if they themselves are the narcissist. Why is this? We finally begin to identify what is going on in our world, and then we are met with an overwhelming amount of doubt. What if I am the problem? Is it me?
Covert narcissists often accuse their victim of being a narcissist. They project their own behaviors onto their victim and blame them of many of the things they themselves are doing. They will point out things that you are doing that makes them the victim. They will add just enough truth in what they are saying to make you truly question it or even believe it.
They are just as much an expert in making you doubt yourself as they are in playing the victim!! This combination is deadly - to your confidence, your mind, your heart, and your soul. This episode answers the question of why so many victims wonder if they are the narcissist themselves. It will help you so much to see where this confusion and doubt comes from, so you can clear your thoughts and focus on your own healing!
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It is impossible to reconcile with a covert narcissist! All relationships have disagreements and misunderstandings. People in healthy relationships help carry each other's blame and responsibility. They both apologize, and they both give each other room for humanness.
This is not the case when you are in a relationship with a covert narcissist. You are not allowed to be human. There is no room for mistakes or misunderstandings. Trying to reconcile with them is one of the most infuriating things to go through. It is maddening and impossible!
I mean how do you reconcile with someone who throws everything back at you! With someone who has absolutely no give!
It is far easier to make excuses for them. This is what many victims do for years and decades. Until one day, you just can't take it anymore!
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One thing you must realize is that the way a covert narcissist interacts with you is not about you. They learned these interaction traits in childhood. Somewhere at a young age, they learned that offering give in a conversation is dangerous and painful. They learned that give equals attack.
You can see this is how you react to their attacks. You learn that it isn't safe to offer peace in conversations with them. They learned this as a child and developed a phobia of give.
They can't say something as simple as, "I could have said it better, sorry about that, or "You probably didn’t mean it that way, that’s on me"
How do you heal from this abuse? Accept that they are never going to agree with your perspective. They can't, that requires give. Understand that this has nothing to do with you, your choice of words, your tone of voice, or anything else you did or didn't do. This is about their past.
In this episode, I give you one very effective tactic for avoiding these blow-ups with a covert narcissist when you have to interact with them. Try it out. It works!
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I am going to try to explain the unexplainable. The lack of give when communicating with a covert narcissist. The absence of the regular flow of give and take that thus makes you feel that you are talking to a void. It is painful, absolutely exhausting, and crushing to your spirit
When in regular casual conversation with someone, we often confirm that we are hearing what the other person is saying. We make little sounds, comments, and gestures: such as a nod, a smile, yeah, uh-huh, true, sure, etc. People react to each other in conversation.
All these remarks show understanding, agreement or support. At the very least they validate your interaction with this person. You don’t feel like you are talking into a void.
This give and take does not happen with a covert narcissist. You are met with the most agonizing silence, so empty and painful. When talking with my CN husband, I would get to a spot in the conversation where people naturally interject something. So I would pause in expectation. Nothing! Silence. Awkwardness. Emptiness.
So I go on talking, wondering if I am being heard, wondering if I am making sense
When dealing with a covert narcissist, there is no slack, no margin, no benefit of the doubt. There is no give!
Trying to understand this is like trying to catch a ghost. As soon as you think you have a grasp on it, it disappears again. We are trying to understand something that is almost impossible to even talk about.
It’s hard because it isn’t always in what they did, it’s in what they didn’t do. What they didn’t say. That stone-cold silence and lack of give.
Coming soon: Why do covert narcissists have such an extreme inability to offer that give that is so necessary in relationships?
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Being trapped in a circular conversation with a covert narcissist is dreadful!! It is the loneliest place on earth. You feel completely destitute and isolated. If you have ever experienced this, you know what I am talking about.
In these two episodes, I address and describe 8 signs of these circular conversations. Here is a quick list of those signs:
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You find yourself teaching an adult about basic communication skills and basic human emotions.
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You find yourself thinking, “If I could just find the right words, then he would stop treating me this way.”
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These conversations are antagonistic and combative, verbal competitions.
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There is no resolution in these conversations.
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They switch the topic constantly, keeping you on the defense.
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They play the eternal victim.
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You walk away thinking, “What in the world just happened?”
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They use the silent treatment inside the conversation, holding you in an intense silence and in knots.
In the episodes, I go into detail explaining each of these signs. Learning what they are and how to identify them helps a victim make sense of what is going on and plan a way out of the entrapment. In a future episode, I will address strategies to avoiding circular conversations, as well as exiting them once they get started.
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Covert narcissists don't use conversations to find understanding, reconciliation, or compromise. They don't see them as a way to connect with a loved one, to spend time getting to know each other better. To them, conversations are about winning. They are for putting the other person down and showing their superiority.
Conversations are competitions. One person comes out a winner, and one a loser. This is warfare. It is the single most lonely place on the face of this earth. If you have experienced this, you know exactly what I am talking about.
In this episode and the next one, I describe 8 signs of a circular conversation with a covert narcissist.
No one has the right to treat you this way! No one has the right to talk to you this way! You will never get them to understand, but you do have the power to walk away!
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Even people who are aware of narcissism and victims themselves can still end up in a relationship with a covert narcissist. They seem so real, genuine, open, and vulnerable. Why do they seem so genuine?
A covert narcissist is more in love with the idea of being a compassionate person than actually being a compassionate person. They fool us because their desire to be that compassionate person is real. They do WANT to be that. They just have no ability to be that.
They are more in love with the idea of being a good husband/wife than actually doing what it takes to be that. This applies to many aspects of their lives.
When they fail at being these wonderful things they say they are, they are also experts at passing all the blame to you. Everything is your fault because you were the one putting in all the effort. They did nothing wrong because they did nothing at all!
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Why can't I explain it to my friends? Why don't they get it? Why does it all sound so petty and trivial? When I’m trying to explain it to someone, I even think I sound petty. But it’s not! There is nothing petty about the nightmare that you are living! It sucks and you need people around you that get it, that understand.
Covert narcissistic abuse is a nearly invisible abuse. It is hidden in things that are a normal part of life; little disagreements, a bad mood here and there, a short word out of the blue, a misunderstanding. These events sound petty when describing them because they ARE petty. At least they should be. They should be tiny bumps on the road of life. When you are with a covert narcissist though, they are unpassable mountains.
In a non-toxic relationship, these are small issues that disappear after reconciliation. In a toxic relationship, they never disappear. They pile on top of each other for years and decades.
When you find someone else who has lived it, you know it. You can sense it when you talk with them. Find a small support group and quit trying to explain it to anyone who doesn't get it. Remember, you have nothing to prove to anyone! You don't owe anyone an explanation or reason for what happened!
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A relationship with a covert narcissist is like getting a thousand bee stings. Any individual event can seem so small and insignificant, like a single bee sting. No big deal, right? WRONG!! Because it isn't just one bee sting, it is a thousand!
One single example from your relationship can seem so petty and trivial. If it was a single event, it would be. But it's not. When you add all the stings together, you find yourself in an extreme amount of pain and anguish. Trying to explain it to someone is completely overwhelming.
Here are a few personal examples from my 21 year marriage with a covert narcissist.
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Covert narcissism is narcissism from a unique angle. The internal characteristics are the same as an overt narcissist, but it plays out differently.
Narcissism is not defined in the DSM as the loud and boisterous life of the party. It does not list traits of hitting, cheating, and yelling.
Rather, NPD is defined as having a grandiose sense of self-importance, requiring excessive admiration, believing that they are special, having a lack of empathy, jealous of others, and arrogant. These traits and others are present in both overt and covert narcissists. How they show up differs. In this podcast, we explore these differences in order to raise awareness of covert narcissism.
This particular episode addresses the hyper-sensitivity of narcissists and how this displays for both overt and covert narcissists. Overt narcissists react with fear and use intimidation to control of their victim. Covert narcissists react with hurt and victimhood, using guilt and blame to control their victim.
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This podcast is dedicated to those who are living the nightmare of covert narcissistic abuse. I share my story of a 21 year marriage with a covert narcissist. We will explore what covert narcissism is and how it differs from overt narcissism. I will discuss the deep scars and effects of the abuse and how to turn it into healing. I will include episodes on helping your children for those that are co-parenting with a covert narcissist.
In this first episode, I describe how my eyes were opened to what was really going on. How I discovered that I was not crazy and that I was not alone. I introduce differences between overt and covert narcissism, which we will discuss in great detail in the coming episodes.
If you are living this nightmare....first I want to say I am sorry. I hate it for anyone who is going through this! Next, I want to say, that there is life outside of narcissism!! You can have healing and peace. You are stronger than you know. If I can do it, so can you!! You do not have to go through this alone though! There is help to be found!
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