Fruitless: Recent Episodes
Josiah Sutton
A series of conversations about faith, philosophy, history, politics, and the internet hosted by Josiah Sutton.
Today's episode is the first installation of the Barker Bookclub (Maybe. Name pending.), a show-within-a-show where Chris Barker and Josiah read nonfiction books they've been meaning to read. In today's episode, Chris and Josiah are also joined by Chimera to discuss The Basque History of the World by Mark Kurlansky.
Next book: Late Victorian Holocausts by Mike Davis
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Find more of Josiah’s work here: https://linktr.ee/josiahwsutton
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References
The Basque History of the World - Mark Kurlansky
Basques in Iceland
The Anatomy of Fascism - Robert O. Paxton
Music
Yesterday – bloom.
In My Dreams – bloom.
Josiah is joined by his first return guest, Chris Barker, to discuss the revolutions of 1848. While the string of revolutions that rocked Europe over the year were ultimately a failure, their legacy lived on and shaped the way modern politics developed. This is the year nationalism became a real political force. This is the year Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto. The ripple effects from this event would stretch everywhere and the conversation goes all over the place because of that, from abolitionists in the U.S. to the Hungarian revolt against the soviets in 1956. Beyond that though, this is mostly an episode of two history nerds getting excited about history.
Here's the episode of Mammonburg with Keanu Heydari we mention a few times.
Today's guest is no longer on any social media, but he hangs out in the Mammonburg discord a lot.
Find more of Josiah’s work here
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Music
Yesterday – bloom.
In My Dreams – bloom.
Josiah is joined by Phil Cozzi (@CryptidDirector) to discuss film and chasing your dreams. While the conversation was initially going to be about film, it eventually pivoted into a more personal discussion about the feeling of giving up on your passions, and the narcissism lurking in most artistic or academic endeavors. We often think of great artists or thinkers as powerful individuals who pursued their dreams, and this notion is fed by the films and books most zoomers and millennials were raised with. Phil and Josiah try to untangle this and look at art in a more communal sense.
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Find more of Josiah’s work here
Follow Josiah on Twitter @josiahwsutton
Music
Yesterday – bloom.
In My Dreams – bloom.
Josiah is joined by Gavin Aronsen (@garonsen) to discuss Iowa politics, especially it’s recent right wing turn. They discuss Steve King’s connections to Viktor Orban, the rise of illiberal conservatism, and the failure of local media to report on local politics. They also reflect on the 2020 protests, Occupy Wall Street, and point toward some optimistic developments as well.
Follow today’s guest on Twitter.
Find more of Josiah’s work here
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Music
Yesterday – bloom.
In My Dreams – bloom.
Josiah is joined by Phil Christman (@phil_christman) to talk about the Midwest, American evangelicalism, and the future of the left. Both the Midwest and evangelicalism are made up of lost futures—radical moral or political visions that eventually lost out to the iterations we see today. In a casual discussion, Josiah and Phil ask what we can learn from history, both the good and the bad, and how that can help in imagining the future.
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Referenced worksMidwest Futures - Phil Christman
How To Be Normal - Phil Christman
The Frontier in American History - Frederick Jackson Turner
Jesus and John Wayne - Kristin Kobes Du Mez
Latino Heartland - Sujey Vega
"Before I-235, Des Moines’ Center Street district was a bastion of Black commerce and culture" - Paul Brennan & Courtney Guein
"Unlearning the Language of ‘Wokeness’" - Sam Adler-Bell
Capitalist Realism - Mark Fisher
Music
Yesterday – bloom.
In My Dreams – bloom.
You can find a link to the new Very Legal, Very Cool RSS feed here.
Here are the original show notes:
The season finale! In today's episode, Randy (Josiah's dad) joins Josiah to talk about his faith journey from drugs and rock music to Golden Dawn occultism, on to a born again conversion to Christianity during the 90s. We discuss the rise of the charismatic movement bringing him to Reformed theology, and the impact all of this had on Josiah's faith growing up.
16 Shells from a 30.6 - Tom Waits
Dig, Lazarus, Dig!! - Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds
Flood - Jars of Clay
Entertaining Angels - Newsboys
You Are The One - Keith Green
Reality - Newsboys
The Church's One Foundation - The Scottish Festival Singers
Tonight - The O.C. Supertones
There is a Kingdom - Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds
Hello! I was not able to record any new Fruitless this month. Instead, I'll be sharing two old Very Legal, Very Cool episodes. This is the first one featuring Jackal (@JackalJester)
You can find a link to the new Very Legal, Very Cool RSS feed here.
Here are the original show notes:
cw: sexual violence, gore, and racism/racial slurs. In today's episode, Jackal (Mammonburg! @JackalJester) joins Josiah to discuss Caravaggio, Goya, and the Haitian Revolution. This disparate combination of topics began to synthesize into a visual history of modernity, war, colonialism, religion, and revolution from Napoleon to Aristide. The show notes for this episode are pretty helpful since a lot of our discussion focuses on visuals, and of course don't forget to check out Mammonburg, now streaming wherever you get your podcasts.
World Destruction - Time Zone, John Lydon, Afrika Bambaataa
The Painter - I'm From Barcelona
Cruel Summer - Bananarama
Dambala - Exuma
Money is King - Leyla McCalla
Mèsi Bondye - Leyla McCalla
You Don't Know What's Going On - Exuma
LinksGeneral content warning: a number of the paintings linked below contain violent or disturbing content.CaravaggioPainting no. 1: Saint Jerome Writing, Caravaggio
Kim Jung Gi
Claire's Redbubble with flat art Goya
Judith Beheading Holofernes, Caravaggio
Judith taking revenge on rapist, Artemisia Gentileschi
Francisco Goya
Charles IV of Spain and His Family, Goya
The Garotted Man, Goya
The Peninsular War
The Second of May 1808, Goya
The Third of May 1808, Goya
The Haitian Revolution
First episode of Mike Duncan's series on Haiti
Mike Duncan, History of Haiti after the Revolution
Disasters of War, Goya series
This is Worse, Goya
A heroic feat with dead men, Goya
For a clasp knife, Goya
The same, Goya
Invasion of Haiti
The body of Charlemagne Péralte (cw: photo of a corpse)
Ogou(n)
Philomé Obin
The Crucifixion of Charlemagne Péralte for Liberty, Obin
Duvalier dynasty
Jean-Bertrand Aristide
The People's Church (or Ti Legliz) movement. There isn't even a Wikipedia page for it.
Ernst Prophete
Recrucifixion of Charlemagne Péralte, Prophete
(I misspoke, there are two sources of this painting I've found, here is the other)
Henry Ossawa Tanner
The Annunciation, Tanner
Nicodemus, Tanner
Haiti books referenced
The Faces of the Gods - Leslie Desmangles
The French Revolution in San Domingo - Lothrop Stoddard (very racist, probably don't read)
The Black Jacobins - C. L. R. James
Silencing the Past - Michel-Rolph Trouillot
The Rainy Season - Amy Wilentz
Our Lady of Class Struggle - Terry Rey
Josiah is joined by Keanu Heydari (@WoeToChorazin) to discuss queer theory and Christian theology. While liberal Christian denominations have grown increasingly inclusive of a queer individuals in the past decade, they still struggle to make sense of sexual identity and gender. In the broader culture, anti-LGBTQ politics seems to be on the rise. Using the insight of queer theory and Christian theology, Keanu argues that an apocalyptic and deontologized view of gender and sexuality is the path forward.
Follow today’s guest on Twitter, as well as his podcast and his website.
Find more of Josiah’s work here
Follow Josiah on Twitter @josiahwsutton
Music
Yesterday – bloom.
In My Dreams – bloom.
Josiah is joined by AJ to discuss the material and spiritual sides of the culture war. Among left wing circles, it is common to either completely disregard the culture war to focus on "material" politics or become completely enthralled by cultural battles. AJ and Josiah try to find a middle ground and, in the process, discuss the future of the left and online media.
Music
Yesterday – bloom.
Straight to Hell – The Clash
Commiserations – Society
Green - Young Jesus
Subterraneans – Willie J Healey
Killer Parties – The Hold Steady
In My Dreams – bloom.
Find more of Josiah’s work here
Follow Josiah on Twitter @josiahwsutton
Josiah is joined by Jackal (@JackalJester) to discuss Orientalism in art history. They take some time to look over a few paintings and try to examine what they say about European perceptions of the East, as well as European perceptions of their role in the East.
References
Orientalism by Edward Said
Bonaparte Visiting the Plague Victims of Jaffa, painted by Antoine-Jean Gros (1804)
The Massacre at Chios, painted by Eugène Delacroix (1824)
Solomon’s Wall, painted by Vasily Vereshchagin (1884-5)
The Apotheosis of War, painted by Vasily Vereshchagin (1871)
They are Triumphant, painted by Vasily Vereshchagin (1871-2)
The Slave Market, painted by Otto Pilny (1910)
The Slave Market, painted by Jean-Léon Gérôme (1866)
The Snake Charmer, painted by Jean-Léon Gérôme (1879)
Music
Yesterday – bloom.
The Boy with the Arab Strap – Belle and Sebastian
Commiserations – Society
танцевать (Dance) – Molchat Doma
Excuses – The Morning Bender
Palaces of Montezuma – Grinderman
In My Dreams – bloom.
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Find more of Josiah’s work here
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Josiah is joined by Joel Harrison (@profjharrison) of uswithoutThem to discuss the book he’s writing on Christian music of the 1990s and 2000s, specifically bands signed on to Tooth & Nail. This serves as an entry point to discuss the broader religious and political development of millennial evangelicals and the rise of “deconstruction” or exvangelical movements.
References
Against by Tad Delay
Music
Yesterday – bloom.
January 1979 – mewithoutYou
The Sun and the Moon – mewithoutYou
Everything Was Beautiful and Nothing Hurt – mewithoutYou
Taste the Red Hands – Dead Poetic
In My Dreams – bloom.
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Check out uswithoutThem
Find more of Josiah’s work here
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In today's episode, Josiah is joined by Morgan Vander Hart, a good friend and anarchist who is heavily involved in mutual aid work in Des Moines, IA. They discuss the state of radical politics in Des Moines and the Midwest after the 2020 George Floyd protests and the struggle for hope in spite of the increasingly dire political situation in the United States.
I didn't release a second episode for March. Since I broke that promise, I'm going to try to release two more in April if I'm able to. See you later this month.
Music creditYesterday – bloom.
ghidorah - peaceeater
In My Dreams - bloom.
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Donate to Edna Griffin Mutual Aid
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Josiah is joined by Chris Barker to discuss the Russo-Ukrainian War. The invasion of Ukraine has lead to a lot of scrambling to make sense of the conflict. Chris and Josiah walk through some of the history of Ukraine before offering their thoughts on the future and where they think the left is gets lost.
Referenced WorksNeonazis & Euromaidan - Aleksey Kochetkov and Stanislav Byshok (Russian propaganda book)
Music credit
Yesterday – bloom.
Мы идём в тишине - Чёрный Лукич
Далеко бежит дорога (Впереди веселья много) - Гражданская Оборона
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Josiah is joined by Francis Cooper (@attnfrancis) to discuss his conversion to Eastern Orthodoxy. Francis and Josiah have been friends for a long time and both went through various "deconstruction" paths regarding their former evangelical faiths. Through this conversation, they talk about their spiritual journeys to high church traditions and what, for Francis, is compelling about Orthodox spirituality. Francis also makes it clear that, if anything he says contradicts an Orthodox priest, you should trust the priest.
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Referenced worksThe BibleSpiritual Psalter of St. Ephraim the Syrian, or Reflections on God
The Paschal Sermon of St. John Chrysostom
Music
Yesterday – bloom.
Up the Wolves - The Mountain Goats
Every Thought a Thought of You - mewithoutYou
Eating Paper - David Bazan
Lost and Found - Seth Cloe and the Silver Liners
Josiah is joined by Josh Christianson (@GnomeChamsky) to discuss the Midwest as a region and a concept. The Midwest represent "normality" in the American psyche despite it being a very weird place. It gets treated as a place without history, and it has a mythology of not having a mythology. In a casual discussion, Josiah and Josh deconstruct these ideas and ask what the future of the Midwest may be, calling for a re-imagining of Midwestern identity.
Follow today’s guest on Twitter and check out some of his work here.
Find more of Josiah’s work here
Follow Josiah on Twitter @josiahwsutton
Referenced worksMidwest Futures - Phil Christman
The danger of mythologizing America's "heartland" - Phil Christman
Dawn of Everything - David Graeber & David Wengrow
An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States - Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz
Universal Harvester - John Darnielle
Music
Yesterday – bloom.
Cow - Sparklehorse
Christmas Card from a Hooker in Minneapolis - Tom Waits
Positive Jam - The Hold Steady
Brief introduction to who I am and what I’m doing here.
MusicYesterday - bloom.
In My Dreams - bloom.
Find more of Josiah's work here
Follow Josiah on Twitter @josiahwsutton