Come Here To Me: Relationship Experts Walk the Talk: Recent Episodes
Figs O'Sullivan, Teale O'Sullivan
Spouses and psychotherapists Figs and Teale offer relationship advice, wit, and vulnerability with a look into real couples therapy sessions—their own.
đź”— Related: Couples Therapy for Communication Problems
Work with Figs | Take the Free Relationship Quiz | Learn more at Empathi
Connect with Figs & Empathi:
Work with Figs: https://empathi.com/contact/
Take the free relationship quiz: https://figlet.empathi.com/quiz
Couples Therapy: https://empathi.com/couples-therapy/
Individual Therapy: https://empathi.com/individual-therapy/
Learn more: https://empathi.com/
Are partners born wicked, or do they have wickedness thrust upon them? From The Bachelor to the state of politics, "bad guys" are a recipe for disconnection — but not in the way you'd expect... Connect with Figs & Empathi:Work with Figs: https://empathi.com/contact/Take the free relationship quiz: https://figlet.empathi.com/quizCouples Therapy: https://empathi.com/couples-therapy/Individual Therapy: https://empathi.com/individual-therapy/Learn more: https://empathi.com/
Couples Therapy for Communication Problems
Work with Figs | Take the Free Relationship Quiz | Learn more at Empathi
Connect with Figs & Empathi:
Work with Figs: https://empathi.com/contact/
Take the free relationship quiz: https://figlet.empathi.com/quiz
Couples Therapy: https://empathi.com/couples-therapy/
Individual Therapy: https://empathi.com/individual-therapy/
Learn more: https://empathi.com/
Is it self-protection or self-destruction? Figs explains how to salvage a date gone wrong using a funny/powerful viral clip of reality TV star Tiffany Pollard.If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visitempathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapyconsultations.
Figs and Teale dig up the roots of Figs' shame around their wedding anniversary.If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visitempathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapyconsultations.
TherapyJeff: https://www.tiktok.com/@therapyjeff/video/7368846526149479726
About the Empathi Method: https://empathi.com/about/?&utm_source=stream&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=chtm&utm_term=therapyjeff
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy consultations.
Teale surprises Figs with a topic they've been dancing around since the very beginning of their relationship.If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visitempathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapyconsultations.
Figs chats with podcast host (and relationship skeptic) Nicolas Gregoriades about the most common relationship dynamic between men and women.
Are your concerns usually met with defensiveness? You might be stuck in a feedback loop… Figs explains why constructive criticism is so difficult, and what to do about it.
Figs and Steph discuss the pros and pitfalls of the growing trend of partners "diagnosing" each other with personality disorders.
Get an early release of the previously therapists-exclusive beat-by-beat breakdown: https://get.empathi.com/comehere/please-like-me-early-access
In "The Truth About Codependency", Figs explains how to actually help couples in a codependent relationship—starting with critiquing the term.
To do so, Figs explores 3 possible uses for "codependency":
- Couples featuring a partner "Dependent" on substances (alcoholism, addiction) and their "Co-dependent" partner
- "Overly attached" couples high in conflict who think they "Just need to learn to be independent"
- Couples featuring a partner with trauma around having needs being unacceptable
In every single case, you first must normalize, normalize, normalize.
When the term "Codependent" was created to describe loved ones of addicted individuals and their behavior, they were missing an ingredient essential for understanding human behavior: Attachment Theory.
From day one, human beings need to be emotionally bonded to survive.
Everything supposed "codependent" individuals do and feel in relation to their adult primary attachment figure makes absolute sense in this context. This isn't something to be fixed.
In cases featuring substance abuse, each partner's actions make sense, but they will not be able to proceed to the next step until the addicted partner(s) can be fully there for the other.
After couples understand their relationship system, that there's nothing wrong with either of them, and that their behaviors are actually born out of a need for each other's love, one partner is able to ask for their needs to be met.
This is where, as Figs describes it, a "threshold moment" occurs. Either they ask for their needs to be met, their partner is able to do so, and they experience profound emotional healing, or they see their partner isn't able to be there for them and get to say, "No."
The final step is to integrate what has happened—remembering there's nothing wrong with you, and asking for your needs to be met from a place of vulnerability and connection is more rewarding than placating or hiding.
You now have the ability to do this process, repair conflicts and heal wounds from the past, over and over again for the rest of your life.
In "How to Fix a Toxic Relationship," Figs breaks down what a toxic relationship is (and isn't) and the steps necessary to repair it.
For the purposes of this conversation, a toxic relationship is one in which the couple is spending days, weeks, months—a significant amount of time—in "disconnection" without meaningful repair.
This can include individual negative cycles (conflicts) that persist or escalate dramatically, and/or it can mean the couple is spending very little time in connection over a longer period of time.
Most importantly, couples in a toxic relationship are not having meaningful repair—a multi-dimensional empathetic experience wherein they're able to be there for each other lovingly, feel their individual pain, and feel empathy for both of them together.
So, in order to fix a toxic relationship, Figs leads couples through three stages:
Stage 1: Break down the negative cycle and help both partners recognize the tragedy they are both engaged in together, cognitively and emotionally. This is the most difficult step in the process.
Stage 2: Go deeply into one partner's pain, organize it, have them feel it fully, and ask for their needs to be met—then, their partner shows up for them. Do this in both directions.
Stage 3: Help the couple integrate what they accomplished. They are not "toxic" or broken, and they can repeat this process of repair for the rest of their lives.
Please note that if you are experiencing domestic abuse, it is not currently possible for you to safely attempt to navigate these stages. Reach out for help online at https://www.thehotline.org or by phone at 1-800-799-7233.
In "Attachment in HBO's Succession," Karen joins Figs to discuss a particular scene in Succession (S4E2) as a representation of deep attachment-based wounding.
Couples Therapy Works: How do you know if your partner's behavior is unacceptable? Karen joins Figs to answer this important client question.
In "Seeing The Negative Cycle" Figs and Karen take a close look at the makeup of The Cycle, a concept from Emotionally-Focused Therapy.
A cycle is the negative "infinity loop" every couple inevitably encounters in their relationship, which shows up for partners as conflict they get into over and over.
Download the infinity loop sheet: https://get.empathi.com/episodes/seeing-the-negative-cycle
Figs describes it as a river that is always running underneath your house, but which only rises above ground-level from time to time. The emotional bonding dynamic in your relationship is ever-present, but is most easily accessed in moments of conflict.
To recognize that you are in a negative cycle, Karen suggests paying attention to the language you are using (such as "You always–" and "You never–"), and to what is going on in yourself (are you triggered or reacting with fight/flight/freeze/fawn behaviors)?
Figs explains that if you are experiencing any of the 4 quadrants of the infinity loop, then you are in a cycle.
These quadrants are… You are hurting, you have a negative judgment of your partner, your partner is hurting, and your partner has a negative judgment of you.
Each of these feed into and result from each other, and so if one of those elements is present, Figs emphasizes that it's highly likely they are all present.
All roads to a better relationship pass through "We are in a system together."Â
Understanding The Cycle is the first step.
In "Behind the Therapists" Karen and Figs use the feeling of being overextended to explore 3 "roses" and 1 "thorn" about being a couples therapist, each.
Karen finds it rewarding to…Â
- Take desperate and confused couples and organize what is really happening for them.
- Help others (thereby feeling valuable as a person enough to "exist for today.")
- Experience couples on the edge of giving up on the relationship become open-hearted.
Karen finds it most difficult to bear the moments when a couple is stuck and she has a hard time holding them in a frame of hope.
Figs is fulfilled by…
- How alive couples therapy is—he has to show up for the couple in the moment, no matter what.
- Going deeper and deeper into sadness, hopelessness, and despair with a couple, trusting that they'll come through closer.
- The performance and artistry of a session.
The most difficult sessions for Figs are when a couple doesn't trust him yet—they're not in alliance.Â
"Research has shown that a simple act of kindness directed toward another improves the functioning of the immune system and stimulates production of serotonin in both the recipient of the kindness and the person extending the kindness.Â
Even more amazing is that persons observing the act of kindness have similar beneficial results. Imagine this: kindness extended, received, or observed beneficially impacts the physical health and feelings of everyone involved.” — Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
"Why He Withdraws" is a follow-up to the last Figs & Teale episode, "Pursuer Problems," and it's Figs' turn for an "affect assembly" with Teale's help.
After just a bit of stalling, Figs describes a recent negative judgment of Teale after she didn't text him when she was out with her friends like he asked her to and then went out paddling the next morning before he woke up.
He describes these judgments as "inconsiderate," and then—hinting at the deeper vulnerability—"hypocritical" and "unreasonable."
Figs, in feeling not considered by Teale (a more classically Pursuer sensitivity) actually started to access all the times he felt judged as the inconsiderate one (his deeper Withdrawer "not enough" sensitivity).
He then, in touch with those feelings of not being good enough, tried to be "good" by not outwardly expressing those negative judgments of Teale—which Figs now knows was not actually the "right" thing to do.
While walking through Figs' negative judgments and feeling not good enough, Teale demonstrates her acceptance and love of Figs—which is hard for Figs, who is struggling to let it in, and who feels like it's unacceptable not to be able to.
In voicing that, however, Figs can see that Teale is also able to hold that "unacceptable" part of Figs, and he is able to experience relief and connection.
What do you do when there are no moves left?
In "Impossible Moments" Figs and Karen discuss a moment every couple will experience throughout their relationship—being so reactive and so hurt they are simply unable to move forward.
This can show up as a conflict in the course of a normal day, such as Figs and Teale experienced in the example Figs shared, or it can show up when two people are very close to ending things, as was the case with Karen's clients.
Figs explains that because couples are experiencing emotional bonding trauma very deeply in those moments, if a therapist can hold them in their feelings of abandonment or rejection, they will reach for each other from that place of vulnerability and be able to have a transformational experience.
Figs and Karen also discuss the value of "meta-processing" for integrating moments of healing in a couple's relationship—for impossible moments, and in relation to the last Relationship Experts episode with Teale.
Couples Therapy Works is a new series from the Come Here To Me team delving into the complex work of couples therapy from the ground up. Each episode will feature one or more of Empathi’s own counselors as they examine the truths and challenges of relationship repair.
To submit a question for Figs and Karen to answer, email figs@empathi.com or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for counseling, quizzes, and courses.
The balancing act of couples therapy takes center stage in "Back From Betrayal" as Figs and Karen break down the process of bringing couples who are grappling with a betrayal to repairing and strengthening their relationship.
As compassionate witnesses, Empathi couples therapists guide couples toward "all needs met" moments, which means exploring their vulnerable perspectives in a way so that each member feels understood and is able to empathetically hear what the other partner is sharing.
With a betrayal such as an affair, the "betrayer" often wants to "get back to good" as soon as possible. In this case, Figs and Karen emphasize experiencing and exploring the negative feelings resulting from the betrayal which the "betrayer" is trying to avoid.
As couples therapists, they will explore deeply the many different kinds of betrayal that the "betrayed" has felt for their benefit, but also so that the "betrayer" can recognize it and emulate that empathetic support.
Then, there is space to explore the "betrayer"'s pain in the present moment and what they were seeking through the affair or other betrayal.
Couples Therapy Works is a new series from the Come Here To Me team delving into the complex work of couples therapy from the ground up. Each episode will feature one or more of Empathi’s own counselors as they examine the truths and challenges of relationship repair.
To submit a question for Figs and Karen to answer, email figs@empathi.com or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for counseling, quizzes, and courses.
In "Breakup Empathy" Figs and Karen examine why empathy is the essential ingredient in their work with couples, even when they part ways.
"Empathy" in this case is not just a person feeling compassion and understanding their partner, it's the ability for both partners to see the relationship as a whole and experience empathy for each person in the system, together.
But before it can be experienced, couples will have, say, six beats of time—minutes, hours, days—wherein they cannot control their reactivity and reliance on "the story of other." Even for experienced couples therapists in relationship, the moment is lost.
It's important for couples to not try and prevent those six beats of reactivity, but to work on reaching "beat seven"—that moment of empathy for themselves, their partner, and both of them together.
Even when couples therapy clients decide to sever their bond, this empathy is essential for each partner's healthy understanding of relationships and themselves. Otherwise, not only can they carry resentment which negatively affects their future relationships, they may harbor negative core beliefs about themselves such as "I'm too much" and "I'm not enough."
Couples Therapy Works is a new series from the Come Here To Me team delving into the complex work of couples therapy from the ground up. Each episode will feature one or more of Empathi’s own counselors as they examine the truths and challenges of relationship repair.
To submit a question for Figs and Karen to answer, email figs@empathi.com or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for counseling, quizzes, and courses.
In "Pursuer Problems" Figs asks Teale to model moving from a negative "story of other" (blaming and criticizing your partner) to a self-compassionate "story of self" from the perspective of a "Pursuer" in the relationship.Â
As a Pursuer, Teale is usually more sensitive to feelings of being left alone, abandoned, and not prioritized by her partner. In couples therapy sessions, the Pursuer partner tends to have a harder time letting go of the negative view of their partner because their "pursuit" of closeness is seen as a sign of love, while a Withdrawer's distance is attributed to apathy.Â
But, as Figs and Teale discuss, recognizing that each partner co-creates a negative system together is an essential part of relationship repair.
Teale recognizes this, but to understand it deeply she must start with herself—move from blaming Figs to examining which "Flavor of love" she is not getting and how it hurts. Then, she can share that vulnerable story with Figs and together they can build on it to create a shared narrative which includes Figs' experiences.
Relationship Experts Walk The Talk is a deep dive into the struggles, cycles, and joys of relationship from couple and counselors Figs and Teale. Learn how to repair conflict and understand each other through their personal therapy sessions, storytelling, and expertise as couples therapists.
To submit a question for Figs and Teale to answer, email figs@empathi.com or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for counseling, quizzes, and courses.
A listener's relationship issue is highlighted in "Married to a Workaholic" as Figs and Karen take a nuanced look at a system they've seen hundreds of times in couples.
In this case, the listener's husband is prone to answering work texts while they are spending quality time together, resulting in painful disconnection and conflict.
Figs and Karen carefully break down each perspective within this system—the listener Pursuer ("Are you there for me?") and the "texter" Withdrawer ("Am I enough for you?)—using systems theory and attachment theory.
Throughout the episode they do deeper and deeper into the experience of the listener and the "texter," accessing their negative judgments of each other, the ways they protest not feeling loved, and their unmet love needs.
Couples Therapy Works is a new series from the Come Here To Me team delving into the complex work of couples therapy from the ground up. Each episode will feature one or more of Empathi’s own counselors as they examine the truths and challenges of relationship repair.
To submit a question for Figs and Karen to answer, email figs@empathi.com or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for counseling, quizzes, and courses.
In "Don't try this at home," Teale and Figs give each other feedback—something that is not a good idea when couples are fighting or feeling reactive with each other.
They take turns asking each other two questions: "What is my best quality?" and "What do I need to work on?"
From a place of de-escalation (not in conflict, feeling connected), they are able to express the qualities they are most impressed by, and—in both cases—how that same quality can have a negative side.
Figs values Teale's ability to approach the world with excitement and positivity. He also notices how Teale's efforts to fit a lot into the day can create overwhelm in himself and in Teale.
Teale recognizes Figs' creativity in work and daily life, as well as the ways his passionate focus can lead to a sense of disconnection from her and from his life.
Both of these perspectives—while subjective—capture the positive and negative ways each other's behavior lands, and serve as a potential frame for adjusting and improving their lives into 2023.
Relationship Experts Walk The Talk is a deep dive into the struggles, cycles, and joys of relationship from couple and counselors Figs and Teale. Learn how to repair conflict and understand each other through their personal therapy sessions, storytelling, and expertise as couples therapists.
To submit a question for Figs and Teale to answer, email figs@empathi.com or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for counseling, quizzes, and courses.
Couples Therapy Works is a new series from the Come Here To Me team delving into the complex work of couples therapy from the ground up. Each episode will feature one or more of Empathi’s own counselors as they examine the truths and challenges of relationship repair.
This week, Empathi veteran Karen Gordon joins Figs to discuss the inner workings of relationship systems: The Cycle.Â
Explore how everything two partners are doing can make sense, even as they make things worse for themselves, and discover how a simple (and deceptively hard to reach) shift in perspective can change every part in your relationship.
Physicist Michio Kaku's "Hyperspace and a Theory of Everything" (the fish story): https://mkaku.org/home/articles/hyperspace-and-a-theory-of-everything/
To leave feedback, email figs@empathi.com or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
Relationship Experts Walk The Talk is a deep dive into the struggles, cycles, and joys of relationship from couple and counselors Figs and Teale. Learn how to repair conflict and understand each other through their personal therapy sessions, storytelling, and expertise as couples therapists.
In "Unsupervised," Figs and Teale describe their new podcast episode process: exploring their relationship without a therapist and answering listeners' burning questions about navigating love, life, and therapy.
To submit a question for Figs and Teale to answer, email figs@empathi.com or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
Couples Therapy Works is a new series from the Come Here To Me team delving into the complex work of couples therapy from the ground up. Each episode will feature one or more of Empathi’s own counselors as they examine the truths and challenges of relationship repair.
In this episode, Figs and the Empathi team explore the topic of attachment as the pillar on which all relationship systems and behaviors stand. Follow human attachment from the cradle to the grave with Good Enough Parenting, struggling with dependence, enmeshment and codependency, and the two types of pain lovers have the most access to.
Therapists who appear in this episode: Fiachra "Figs" O'Sullivan,Â
Alissa Gibbins, Max DeFrain, and Raphael Barker.
Parents are typically only fully attuned to their infants emotional needs 20 to 30 percent of the time: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pbss-this-emotional-life_b_568178
Eventual secure base provision in infants—not moment-to-moment attunement—also need only occur 50% of the time to predict better outcomes: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190508134511.htm
Email figs@empathi.com with feedback or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
In their most vulnerable session yet, Figs and Teale talk about sex and intimacy in their relationship.
Visit comeheretomepodcast.com for episode transcripts, social media links, and to subscribe to the mailing list. Email figs@empathi.com with feedback or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
Figs and Teale are trapped in the "Protest Polka" in this session around work/life balance. Learn to see a path out of the cycles you get trapped in with your partner.
Visit comeheretomepodcast.com for episode transcripts, social media links, and to subscribe to the mailing list. Email figs@empathi.com with feedback or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
Pandemic parenting leaves Figs and Teale treading water in this episode from early 2021. Listen as they cycle through pandemic fears and conflicting values to something a little deeper.
Visit comeheretomepodcast.com for episode transcripts, social media links, and to subscribe to the mailing list. Email figs@empathi.com with feedback or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
Figs and Teale process wounds around their daughter's difficult reaction to the early pandemic and explore the triggers and cultural context around their parenting style differences.
Visit comeheretomepodcast.com for episode transcripts, social media links, and to subscribe to the mailing list. Email figs@empathi.com with feedback or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
Figs and Teale share a session deeply exploring a moment of reactivity outside of their relationship for Figs and the ways anger and shame can subsequently show up in their marriage.
Visit comeheretomepodcast.com for episode transcripts, social media links, and to subscribe to the mailing list. Email figs@empathi.com with feedback or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
Figs and Teale reflect on the previous episode's climactic session and the revelations it brought for each of them.
Visit comeheretomepodcast.com for episode transcripts, social media links, and to subscribe to the mailing list. Email figs@empathi.com with feedback or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
Visit comeheretomepodcast.com for episode transcripts, social media links, and to subscribe to the mailing list. Email figs@empathi.com with feedback or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
New and extraordinary emotional truth is shared in this session wherein Figs and Teale stop defending their stories and start experiencing the empathy and connection they long for. Discover insights into how reactivity can be an essential precursor to vulnerability.
Timestamps:
01:06 Small talk — Life in Hawaii
05:22 Intro to the session: The ways couples normally try to solve problems
08:07 Therapy tools: "My story is that…"
10:10 Transitioning from story of other to experience of self
13:48 Honoring the reactive cycle before dropping into vulnerability
15:30 Accessing Teale's attachment history
17:35 Session begins — Defending their stories
21:12 Why Figs uses anger
23:50 Teale's story of "I'm the wronged one"
24:48 Feeling behind the anger: Figs is alone | Teale empathizing with Figs
30:33 Teale's hurt and past around anger in men
33:33 Teale protesting with "I don't want to tolerate it"
35:09 Figs feeling triggered around "I'm not gonna tolerate it"
37:36 Teale wants to reorganize her narrative of her life
40:39 Discussing Teale's (triggering) family history
45:17 Teale's family with Figs is healing
46:20 Figs becomes emotional over being that person for Teale
48:25 Teale feels love for that fiery part of Figs
50:42 Session ends — What is your story?
51:08 Scary and activating for Teale to share her attachment history
54:15 Figs' journey to vulnerable empathy for Teale
56:59 Big vulnerable feelings may not look dramatic on the outside
59:49 Feeling activated first helps in moving to deeper vulnerable feelings
01:03:28 Ending chit-chat: The Bro and the Angry Irishman
Visit comeheretomepodcast.com for episode transcripts, social media links, and to subscribe to the mailing list.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
"That which we resist, persists," in this therapy session featuring Figs and Teale trying to hide from a negative cycle.
Timestamps:
00:59 Introduction to the session: Figs & Teale colluding not to process
02:52 A Sensory Cycle
06:57 Subverting expectations: Why wasn't Teale excited to be in therapy?
09:39 What you resist persists
11:24 Sometimes compliments can land like a threat
15:31 Session begins — Do we need airpods
16:58 Therapist prompts them to be aware of their bodies
17:27 Reflecting on previous session (ft. shark story diversion)
20:55 Teale asks Figs to speak more quietly
21:53 Teale and processing a lot
22:28 Letting things go — Figs feels Teale is asking him to change a lot today
24:02 Teale perceives anger from Figs
25:54 Figs settling into the idea that he's someone to be scared of
26:17 Teale feeling like she's too much
28:12 Conflict over sleeping arrangements & sensory differences
29:42 Figs & keeping the radio on all day
31:52 Teale's overwhelm & senses
32:35 What do we do?
34:10 Waiting for "the main course"
34:40 Last session from Teale's perspective
35:51 Therapist wants Teale to access her deeper feelings
36:28 Figs doesn't cry often & when he does Teale gets excited
36:58 Figs feels like he's waiting for some future event
37:59 Teale feels like she's in an excited, positive place: Appreciates Figs
40:00 Figs points out that Teale made the positive moment about Figs
40:55 Appreciate from Teale canmake Figs feel threatened
41:46 Partially coming from a place of Teale wanting appreciation
42:34 Therapist brings up Teale bouncing things back to Teale
43:29 The layers of Teale validating others
46:05 Positive sides of this validation
47:13 Figs feels more seen in his life now
49:31 Therapist wants to devote more attention to Teale's deeper places moving forward
51:27 Session ends — Three main takeaways
52:00 1. Be aware when you're in a negative cycle
53:00 2. What you resist persists
54:55 3. Appreciation can touch negative feelings, too
57:43 Thank you!
Visit comeheretomepodcast.com for episode transcripts, social media links, and to subscribe to the mailing list.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
Figs and Teale reveal the unique challenges the podcast has presented in their relationship as they explore the role emotional processing plays for couples accomplishing tasks together.
Timestamps:
01:03 Introduction to topic
04:52 What it's like creating the podcast
06:30 "Mixed agenda" — Therapy sessions vs. recording sessions
08:47 When do you emotionally process?
09:25 Wounds that come up around speaking for Figs & Teale
12:44 The recording task takes precedent, but feelings affect the success of the recording
13:51 Figs' contextual ability to process information
16:17 Becoming uncomfortable friends with wounds
17:37 Teale's reservations and feeling small
21:47 Processing and knowing each other gives you the space to wait
22:47 Figs' hopes for Teale and goals for himself
24:32 Growing equality in their work relationship dynamic
25:23 Figs feeling left alone in this context
27:11 Teale's perspective
28:44 A negative cycle
28:42 Leaving The Figs Show — an emotional work in progress
31:04 Vulnerable reflection and understanding
32:47 Earning the right to bookmark hurt feelings
37:11 How to do it: "Yes, and"
39:04 How it applies to Teale and Figs' journey
40:27 Example of the "Yes, and" method
42:34 Renewed in the process
Visit http://comeheretomepodcast.com for episode transcripts, social media links, and to subscribe to the mailing list.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
Figs is sent reeling when a session on repair goes in an unexpected direction when Teale tries to connect deeply. Explore the ways preconceptions shake up natural processes as Figs and Teale challenge the idea that there's a "right" way to be vulnerable.
Timestamps:
01:06 Introduction
01:56 Figs' Irish ways
07:03 Preview of session — "Are we ready to stop being in your head, Figs?"
08:03 The Emotional Withdrawer's struggle to describe their internal world
09:41 Healing empathy from Teale and the therapist
11:35 Understanding the Emotional Withdrawer
12:12 Teale's realization, "And it's happening right now"
15:07 Session begins — Figs' rate of repair
17:59 "You're so good at coming out." "Even when you don't fish him out." "No."
19:05 Teale has trouble tolerating disconnection
22:32 Figs feels trapped in having to repair — being "reeled in" — before he's ready
24:15 Teale's will feels overpowering to Figs, he wants to collapse
30:06 Process question — too cognitive?
32:13 Figs receives the message, "My way of processing is not right"
34:24 Teale was trying to be "good"
36:42 Figs is overwhelmed, feels like they can't get any one thing done
45:04 Teale reflects Figs' feelings and acknowledges her own triggers
46:19 Figs feels Teale is more trigger-able in session
49:32 Figs describes being unhappy, "and it's not acceptable"
50:47 Staying with the negative feelings
53:27 Figs' feelings were shut down, triggered feelings of "Too much"-ness
55:52 Figs was able to let in Teale and the therapist
59:20 Session ends
59:38 Teale learned a lot about herself as a critic and Figs' shame
01:02:10 Finding the deep sadness beneath the surface
01:04:10 Teale and the therapist's empathy gave Figs the space he needed
01:07:54 French movie vs American movie analogy
01:09:12 "You don't have to get it right the first time"
01:09:48 Next week's episode
Visit comeheretomepodcast.com for episode transcripts, social media links, and to subscribe to the mailing list.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
Figs and Teale share a session digging into a recurring negative cycle triggered by waiting and discuss the difference between vulnerable or "Primary" feelings and "Secondary" blaming reactions and how even the littlest of things can have a big impact.
Timestamps:
00:00 Teaser
01:06 Chit-chat, "This couples counseling thing is really good for us."
02:10 Introduction to session — The hurt behind the negative cycle
04:33 Teale's example: The Pursuer / Relentless Lover's perspective
05:56 The Withdrawer / Reluctant Lover's perspective
06:39 Negative infinity loop
07:14 Understanding "Primary" and "Secondary"
09:30 Finding the primary within Teale's example
10:51 Session begins — "We can get in a cycle"
10:59 Habits: Figs gives himself extra time, Teale fits in as much as she can
11:56 Top of cycle: Figs feels let down when by Teale's style of task/time management
13:13 Teale describes becoming defensive, pissed off in turn
14:54 Teale describes how she eventually shifts into placating Figs
16:57 Figs feels like he's overly sensitive — exploring waiting and overwhelm
18:56 Top of the cycle recap: Figs feels alone and blames Teale, Teale defends herself
19:21 The deeper rounds: Figs feels self-protective
20:28 "Legit" Statistic: Teale initiates repair 99.99% of the time
20:46 Relationship shift: "Teale will tell me all the possible things I will do to make things better and how none of them will work."
21:53 Figs feels even more trapped
22:54 Going to Alaska: Figs is inclined to stay in disconnection because of feelings of unworthiness
24:39 Teale feels frustrated and alone when Figs pulls away
26:48 Figs feels he gets in trouble when he thinks he's "the good one" and says so, but Teale is so far above Figs when she's the good one he doesn't know where to go
27:36 Teale's vulnerable / connected moment during yesterday's conflict
29:45 Teale feels she's pulling from a depleted well to be able to repair
31:53 Teale has a story inside of, "All men have hurt me"
33:02 Seeing her side of the dance — when she has a part of it and when she doesn't
34:00 Connecting with each other in a Primary way, Figs is in and above the process
35:36 Session ends — Studying their own negative interactionary cycle, Primary and Secondary
36:52 Being in the process vs the solution
38:30 It's gonna be messy, and that's okay
40:02 Summarizing the cycle
42:58 Figs' takeaway: Even little things touch big feelings inside
45:42 Goodbyes — keep fighting the good fight!
Visit comeheretomepodcast.com for episode transcripts, social media links, and to subscribe to the mailing list.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
In Come Here To Me's first bonus episode, Figs and Teale break down what "a cycle" means in a relationship by exploring the emotional bonding needs every human is born with.
Timestamps:
01:00 Small talk
03:48 Introduction to topic, "The Cycle"
05:46 "The problem is not the problem"
09:33 Surfer bro interlude: Just keep swimming
11:37 Couples fight because they love each other
12:38 "The solution itself is not the answer," Do you both feel loved?
14:48 Reptilian insults
16:07 "If you really love me" conversations
17:56 Attachment theory / emotional bonding
23:42 "This is the one that I hope my emotional love needs will be met by."
26:20 Honeymoon's end
26:59 Feeling unloved prompts a negative reaction
28:02 Reaction prompts negative response
28:57 What is a cycle?
33:09 ...Fiddling
33:43 Let it feel like a relief: you're fighting because you love each other so much!
38:47 The key isn't to avoid getting into a cycle, it's to get out of the cycle once it's started.
Visit comeheretomepodcast.com for episode transcripts, social media links, and to subscribe to the mailing list.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
Figs and Teale share a clip of their first session with a couples therapist. Witness how the ways they miss each other escalates into hurt and blame and then ultimately resolves through the therapist's intervention, then learn how you can navigate out of negative cycles in your relationship.
Timestamps:
01:00 Introduction to Figs and Teale
04:04 What's in a name: "Come Here To Me"
08:20 Why this podcast: Witnesses
9:45 Special tip of the episode: Follow the process
13:24 Session begins — Figs feels alone with life's difficulties and like he's a failure
17:26 Turning point: Conflict and hurt (Teale is hurt by Figs' description of her, protests, Figs feels hurt and protests in kind)
20:46 Figs is prompted to reflect back his understanding of Teale's hurt
22:19 Teale feels shame around missing the place Figs was coming from because of her own insecurities
22:33 Moment of humor and connectedness: Figs sees Teale shift into feeling bad about herself
23:21 Figs considers himself to be a difficult person
23:47 Session ends — It's so easy to miss each other
25:59 The snake in the grass: humans focus on the perceived threat
27:45 Shame
29:02 Walking through the cycle
32:46 Turning point: interventions and empathy
33:35 Blaming is not being vulnerable
36:33 Seeing past the mess to the possibility of repair
Visit comeheretomepodcast.com for episode transcripts, social media links, and to subscribe to the mailing list.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for quizzes, courses, and consultations.
Come Here To Me is an empathetic, often amusing look at the truth of relationship dynamics and how things get messy even for the relationship experts. Every other week Figs and Teale share clips of their personal couples therapy sessions with an anonymous therapist—the fights, the tears, the silliness, and the love. They then take a step back from the emotional intensity of the session to examine those experiences for the benefit of the listener (and themselves). In the form of bonus episodes, Figs and Teale provide in-depth explanations, relationship tips, answer listener questions, and interview couples and other experts in the field.