Pennsylvania Conference for Women: Recent Episodes
Pennsylvania Conference for Women
We’re off enjoying a break this holiday season — and we hope you’re getting a break, too — but we wanted to make sure you still had something to nourish your heart and mind right now. So, here’s a few episodes we did this year that you might want to revisit:
- If you’re freaking out about money, you’re not alone — and you should listen to our interview with Kara Stevens, the Frugal Feminista.
- If you’re weighing a fresh start in 2025, try out Lisa Hellmann’s advice to one of our listeners grappling with impostor syndrome.
- And if you’re feeling just plain burnt out, Pooja Lakshmin has some funny, healing, and candid insights to help you practice self-care in a way that will really work.
We’ll see you in 2025 for more amazing episodes and Conferences. If you want to give yourself the gift of inspiration, career development, and growth, visit the Conferences online and make a plan to join us next year — in person in California, Pennsylvania, Texas, and Massachusetts, or virtually at the National Conference.
Kara StevensKara Stevens is the founder of The Frugal Feminista, a thriving personal finance and personal development company committed to helping people heal their relationships with money and themselves. Her relatable financial advice has been featured on Forbes, CNN, Business Insider, Huffington Post, Yahoo Finance, ESSENCE, Women’s Day Magazine, The Washington Post, and other nationally recognized media outlets. She is also the author of heal your relationship with money, The Happy Finances Challenge, and Unmasking the Strong Black Woman.
Lisa HellmannLisa Hellmann is a global Human Resources leader with extensive experience building people strategies in fast-growing medical technology, biotechnology, and healthcare environments. From 2017 to 2023, Lisa led significant Human Resource advances for Hologic Inc., a global medical technology provider focused on women’s health and medical devices. Lisa is a devoted leader in community organizations (The California Conference for Women and the City Heights Preparatory High School) where she serves as a member of the Board of Directors.
Pooja LakshminDr. Pooja Lakshmin MD is a board-certified psychiatrist whose private practice specializes in women’s mental health, as well as a clinical faculty member at George Washington University School of Medicine. Her debut book, REAL SELF-CARE: Crystals, Cleanses, and Bubble-Baths Not Included, was named an NPR Best Book of 2023 and is a national best-seller. Dr. Lakshmin’s essays for The New York Times, including her 2021 essay “This Isn’t Burnout, It’s Betrayal,” have gone viral. She lives in Austin, Texas.
Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional ResourcesMore from Women Amplified Call for submissions! Tell us what you’re dealing with at work or at home and you could be paired with an expert for an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question” on Women Amplified*! Learn more. * Sign up for our email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops.
More from the Conferences for Women If you’re in California, join us at February 12th California Conference for Women at the San Jose Convention Center. Learn more and get your ticket now. * Join Oprah Winfrey, Gloria Steinem, and thousands of women around the country this Women’s History Month at the virtual National Conference for Women. * Check out the FREE* Career Connections Program from the Conferences for Women for expert tips, connections, and career opportunities at companies that support women.
The post Start 2025 Inspired And Refreshed | Best of Women Amplified appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
In this episode, Pooja Lakshmin shares her expertise on the power of self-care. As a mental health practitioner, Pooja knows where many of us tend to fall flat and steer ourselves toward burnout. Here, she’ll share tips for how to set meaningful boundaries at work, how to recognize what priorities really matter, and how to rise up and stay soft in a world that doesn’t lend itself to gentleness.
Pooja LakshminDr. Pooja Lakshmin MD is a board-certified psychiatrist whose private practice specializes in women’s mental health, as well as a clinical faculty member at George Washington University School of Medicine. Her debut book, REAL SELF-CARE: Crystals, Cleanses, and Bubble-Baths Not Included, was named an NPR Best Book of 2023 and is a national best-seller. Dr. Lakshmin’s essays for The New York Times, including her 2021 essay “This Isn’t Burnout, It’s Betrayal,” have gone viral. She lives in Austin, Texas, with her partner Justin, their toddler, and their two cats.
Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional ResourcesMore about Pooja Lakshmin Find Pooja’s book, Real Self Care*, wherever you get your books.
More from Women Amplified Call for submissions! Tell us what you’re dealing with at work or at home and you could be paired with an expert for an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question” on Women Amplified*! Learn more. * Sign up for our email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops.
More from the Conferences for Women If you’re in California, you can lock in some more uplift at the upcoming February 12th California Conference for Women at the San Jose Convention Center. Learn more and get your ticket now. * Join Oprah Winfrey, Gloria Steinem, and thousands of women around the country this Women’s History Month at the virtual National Conference for Women. * Check out the FREE* Career Connections Program from the Conferences for Women for expert tips, connections, and career opportunities at companies that support women.
The post How To Practice Real Self-Care appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
PROBLEM: How do I overcome past professional mistakes (i.e. getting fired, performing poorly due to personal issues) with former employers and companies who may now be potential partners or clients, now that I’m a business owner? Delaware is a small state and I have been avoiding events (i.e. networking events, workshops, meetings) when I know a former employer will be there who I have had issues with in the past.
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Everyone makes mistakes. But how do you transcend those mistakes and keep growing your career… even in a small business community, where everyone knows everyone? Today’s listener of That’s a Good Question is a business owner in a small state, and the former employers who didn’t get her at her best are now potential partners and clients. We’ll explore ways to help prove your progress and quash doubts about your ability. You’ll walk away with new tools for expressing confidence and humility, and for acknowledging the past while eagerly anticipating the future.
Lisa HellmannLisa Hellmann is a global Human Resources leader with extensive experience building people strategies in fast-growing medical technology, biotechnology, and healthcare environments. Lisa has implemented worldwide people strategies throughout her career and capitalized on her cultural acumen across diverse workforces and geographies. From 2017 to 2023, Lisa led significant Human Resource advances for Hologic Inc., a global medical technology provider focused on women’s health and medical devices. She joined as Vice President, Human Resources, Diagnostics and Global Internal Communications (2017 – 2021), and then was promoted to Senior Vice President, Global Human Resources and Corporate Communications (2021 – 2023). Lisa is a devoted leader in community organizations (The California Conference for Women and the City Heights Preparatory High School) where she serves as a member of the Board of Directors.
Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional ResourcesMore from Women Amplified Call for submissions! Tell us what you’re dealing with at work or at home and you could be paired with an expert for an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question” on Women Amplified*! Learn more. * Sign up for our email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops.
More from the Conferences for Women In less than two weeks, we’re bringing a powerhouse speaker lineup to the Pennsylvania Convention Center: Martha Stewart, Dawn Staley, Barbara Corcoran, Sheryl Lee Ralph, Diana Nyad, Robin Arzón… and more! Get your tickets at PAConferenceforWomen.org. * Our February 12th event in San Jose will feature Simone Biles, Brittney Griner, and Padma Lakshmi — plus the amazing women leading sessions throughout the day. Learn more and get your ticket at CAConferenceforWomen.org. * Join Oprah Winfrey, Gloria Steinem, and thousands of women around the country this Women’s History Month at the virtual National Conference for Women on March 5th. * Check out the FREE* Career Connections Program from the Conferences for Women for expert tips, connections, and career opportunities at companies that support women.
The post How to Leave Past Mistakes Behind | That’s a Good Question appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
In this episode, Colette Phillips joins us to share her unique approach to diversity, equity and inclusion – or DEI – training. You’ll learn some of the leadership tips and tricks from her book, The Includers. And she’ll also share some best practices for making sure the DEI message doesn’t get lost in buzzwords and in-fighting. You’ll walk away with a better understanding of what DEI trainings are supposed to accomplish… and how to call in, not out, the white male leaders in your workspace.
Colette PhillipsCOLETTE PHILLIPS is President and CEO of Colette Phillips Communications, Founder and President of Get Konnected! and The GK Fund. For 30 years, Colette has been a powerful voice and effective agent of change in one of America’s oldest and most tribal cities. An immigrant Black woman from Antigua described by Boston Magazine as “Boston’s Great Connector,” and Boston Globe cites her for “changing the Conversation about Diversity in Boston,” Colette has brought her passion, power and wisdom to publications and boardrooms around the globe. The president and CEO of Colette Phillips Communications, Inc. and founder of the multicultural professional and business networking organization Get Konnected!, Colette has spent a lifetime making workplaces more inclusive, opening them to new markets, talent and possibilities.
Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional ResourcesMore about Colette Phillips Find Colette’s book, The Includers*, wherever you get books.
More from Women Amplified Call for submissions! Tell us what you’re dealing with at work or at home and you could be paired with an expert for an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question” on Women Amplified*! Learn more. * Sign up for our email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops.
More from the Conferences for Women Don’t miss our next big in-person event in Philadelphia! For a limited time, you can still save on registration for Pennsylvania Conference for Women on November 7th — go to PAConferenceForWomen.org for more info. * Join Oprah Winfrey, Gloria Steinem, and thousands of women around the country this Women’s History Month at the virtual National Conference for Women. * Check out the FREE* Career Connections Program from the Conferences for Women for expert tips, connections, and career opportunities at companies that support women.
The post Cut Through DEI Squabbling To Make Real Progress appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
This episode features renowned leadership and DEI expert Carolina Caro who will explore ways to harness an age-diverse workforce in today’s multigenerational environment. She will offer tips to bridge the divide, address generational conflict and biases, and create a culture of inclusion where age is celebrated and respected. . This episode is essential for anyone committed to building an inclusive workplace where every generation can thrive.
(This episode is a replay from the March 2024 National Conference for Women)
Carolina CaroCAROLINA CARO specializes in developing conscious leaders that create inclusive and engaging workplaces. She does this by heightening their awareness to uncover blind spots and unlearn generational conditioning that detract from their leadership potential. This empowers them to intentionally choose the behaviors that will better support them in becoming the leader they want to be rather than the leader they default to being. Caro trained with the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching (IPEC) and is credentialed with the International Coaching Federation (ICF) where she maintains her Professional Certified Coach (PCC) designation. She is also a professional speaker, who earned the prestigious Certified Speaking Professional (CSP) status with the National Speakers Association, which is held by less than 15% of speakers globally. She is also a member of the Society for Diversity and holds both the Certified Diversity Professional (CDP) and Certified Diversity Executive (CDE) credentials. Caro is a passionate advocate for diversity, which has shaped every aspect of her life. She is a Montreal native with both Hispanic and Indian roots, fluent in English, Spanish, and French. Her educational background is just as rich and diverse, with an undergraduate degree in cell and molecular biology, a masters degree in science (experimental medicine), a masters degree in business administration and a professional certificate in acting from the Neighborhood Playhouse School of Theatre in New York. Her multidisciplinary and multicultural background lends a unique lens to her practice.
Celeste HeadleeCELESTE HEADLEE is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional ResourcesMore about Carolina Caro* Explore Carolina’s talent development resources at Conscious Leadership Partners.
More from Women Amplified Call for submissions! Tell us what you’re dealing with at work or at home and you could be paired with an expert for an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question” on Women Amplified*! Learn more. * Sign up for our email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops.
More from the Conferences for Women Martha Stewart joins the Pennsylvania Conference for Women keynote lineup! Learn more and get your tickets today at paconferenceforwomen.org. Listeners, save $25 on your ticket with discount code BELONG24! * Join Oprah Winfrey, Gloria Steinem, and thousands of women around the country this Women’s History Month at the virtual National Conference for Women. Early bird pricing of $125/ ticket ends September 15th, so register soon! * Check out the FREE* Career Connections Program from the Conferences for Women for expert tips, connections, and career opportunities at companies that support women.
The post How to Navigate Age in a Multigenerational Workplace appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
PROBLEM: I am grateful for my job and I am humbly proud to be a public service provider, but in my current role and at the end of the day, I am often left with feeling under-utilized and with my natural abilities and talents under-valued. After seven years and several productive conversations with management, my eagerness to do more and be more is not leveraged well. When is it time to put patience aside and leave the safe, secure “nest” behind? I feel that my wings are temporarily clipped, and I want to fly! Furthermore, I am not happy when I try to fake anything.
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A stable, secure job is something many of us spend our whole careers chasing. But, at the same time, stability can easily lead to stagnation. It’s easy to coast along in a job that feels like a given; but it’s hard to feel underutilized and underappreciated.
With the help of an expert’s personal experience on both sides of the negotiation table, you’ll learn how to be your own strongest advocate. We’ll explore strategies for how to talk to your manager about your goals, overcoming career slowdowns — and knowing when, exactly, it’s time to take flight.
Carmel GalvinCarmel Galvin is the Chief People Officer at Klaviyo, the platform that powers smarter digital relationships, making it easy for businesses to capture, store, analyze, and predictively use their own data to drive measurable, high-value outcomes. She brings 20+ years of strategic HR leadership, consulting and executive experience in fast-growing global software and financial technology organizations. Prior to Klaviyo, Carmel was Chief People Officer at Stripe, a financial infrastructure platform for businesses, where she led the people function, overseeing all of Stripe’s talent strategy and HR programs. Previously, she held executive roles in human resources at Autodesk, Glassdoor and Advent Software. She serves as a Board Director at Openlane, on the Compensation and Governance Committees, where she supports the company’s global digital transformation as they move into a modern digital marketplace. Carmel earned an M.B.S. in Human Resources Management from University College Dublin and a B.A in Political Science & Business from Trinity College Dublin.
Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional ResourcesMore from Women Amplified Call for submissions! Tell us what you’re dealing with at work or at home and you could be paired with an expert for an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question” on Women Amplified*! Learn more. * Sign up for our email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops.
More from the Conferences for Women JUST ANNOUNCED: Martha Stewart joins the Pennsylvania Conference for Women keynote lineup! Learn more and get your tickets today at paconferenceforwomen.org. Listeners, save $25 on your ticket with discount code BELONG24! * Join Oprah Winfrey, Gloria Steinem, and thousands of women around the country this Women’s History Month at the virtual National Conference for Women. Early bird pricing of $125/ ticket ends September 15th, so register soon! * Check out the FREE* Career Connections Program from the Conferences for Women for expert tips, connections, and career opportunities at companies that support women.
The post When Is It Time To Quit A Job That’s Not Helping You Grow? | That’s A Good Question appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
This episode, which is a replay from the March 2024 National Conference for Women, features Career Expert and Author Kimberly Brown. She will walk us through her structured framework to help you develop a clear and effective career strategy, tailored to your short-term and long-term goals. This episode is crucial for anyone looking to regain control over their career path and make strategic, informed decisions about their professional future.
(This episode is a replay from the March 2024 National Conference for Women)
Kimberly BrownKIMBERLY BROWN (she/her/hers) is a career + leadership expert whose mission is to help women and people of color navigate the workplace, make more money, and become industry leaders. Her leadership development company, Manifest Yourself, LLC, provides organizations with tailor-made solutions to engage, develop, and advance women and people of color. Through her experience as a career development adviser in some of the nation’s top universities and diversity + inclusion professional in a Fortune 100 company, she has learned that there is so much more to career + leadership development besides having a high paying job; it’s about creating actionable strategies that enable professionals to do more, be more, and achieve more. Her bestselling book, Next Move, Best Move: Transitioning Into a Career You’ll Love, was released in June 2021. Her work has been featured on The Wall Street Journal, NPR, Forbes, Blavity, MONEY Magazine, Essence Magazine, Business Insider, CNBC, Fox 5, and more. She is also on the board of directors for The Power of You Teens organization. Brown is a graduate of Long Island University and received a bachelor of science in business administration and master of science in counseling.
Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional ResourcesMore about Kimberly Brown Learn more about Kimberly and her book, Next Move, Best Move: Transitioning Into A Career You’ll Love.*
More from Women Amplified Call for submissions! Tell us what you’re dealing with at work or at home and you could be paired with an expert for an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question” on Women Amplified*! Learn more. * Sign up for our email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops.
More from the Conferences for Women JUST ANNOUNCED: Martha Stewart joins the Pennsylvania Conference for Women keynote lineup! Learn more and get your tickets today at paconferenceforwomen.org. Listeners, save $25 on your ticket with discount code BELONG24! * Join Oprah Winfrey, Gloria Steinem, and thousands of women around the country this Women’s History Month at the virtual National Conference for Women. Early bird pricing of $125/ ticket ends September 15th, so register soon! * Check out the FREE* Career Connections Program from the Conferences for Women for expert tips, connections, and career opportunities at companies that support women.
The post How to Make Your Next Move, Your Best Move appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
In this episode, Christie Smith — coauthor of the forthcoming book Essential— shares her ideas for the future of management. Distributed and remote teams are increasingly common models for work, and coupled with the massive boom in generative AI technology, it’s easy to lose touch with the more personal elements of being a manager.
Christie shares what the research says about managing employees you might never run into in the office… and how to do it in a way that fosters respect, diversity, connection, and real results.
Christie Smith, PhDChristie Smith, PhD has over 35 years of experience advising the C-Suite of Fortune 500 companies. She has held global leadership positions at Deloitte, Apple, and Accenture as a highly respected expert in leadership, talent management, organizational design, workforce management, change management, and executive team performance. Her work has been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Harvard Business Review, Fortune, Forbes, and CNN. Christie has been recognized as a Top 50 Diversity Leader and in Fast Company’s Queer 50 list. She received her doctorate in Clinical Social Work with a focus on leadership and culture from New York University. Christie is the author of the forthcoming book, Essential: How Distributed Teams, Generative AI, and Global Shifts Are Creating a New Human Powered Leadership.
Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional ResourcesMore about Christie Smith, PhD Learn about her forthcoming book, Essential: How Distributed Teams, Generative AI, and Global Shifts Are Creating a New Human-Powered Leadership*
More from Women Amplified Call for submissions! Tell us what you’re dealing with at work or at home and you could be paired with an expert for an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question” on Women Amplified*! Learn more. * Sign up for our email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops.
More from the Conferences for Women JUST ANNOUNCED: Martha Stewart joins the Pennsylvania Conference for Women keynote lineup! Learn more and get your tickets today at paconferenceforwomen.org. Listeners, save $25 on your ticket with discount code BELONG24! * Join Oprah Winfrey, Gloria Steinem, and thousands of women around the country this Women’s History Month at the virtual National Conference for Women. Early bird pricing of $125/ ticket ends September 15th, so register soon! * Check out the FREE* Career Connections Program from the Conferences for Women for expert tips, connections, and career opportunities at companies that support women.
The post Managing Humans In the AI Revolution appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
In this episode, Jeff Benton shares a roadmap for self-evolution — and for changing your feelings from the enemies of ease to a superpower in all areas of life. Jeff channeled tragedy in his personal life into success, confidence, and strength; now, his company, Paragon Performance Evolution, teaches those principles on the individual and team levels. Today, he shares tips for cultivating resilience, managing stress, and harnessing the body’s connection with the mind.
Our Guest: Jeff BentonJeff Benton, Founder & CEO of Paragon Performance Evolution, focuses on peak performance training through various aspects of personal and collective growth. By developing customized leadership and high-performance programs, Paragon’s focus is to create significant impact for individuals and client organizations, ranging from FORTUNE 500 companies to Special Forces, professional athletes, leading academic institutions, Global First Ladies, and astronauts.
The core of Paragon’s teachings revolve around achieving a coherent state through self-regulation and increased awareness of thoughts and emotions. By helping individuals attain this state of coherence, it enables them to optimize key brain functions and improve overall physiology, leading to greater clarity, presence, joy and gratitude. This enables an individual to achieve greater overall performance, and also deeper and more authentic relationships, at an individual, team and organizational level, creating a collective state of coherence.
Ultimately, Jeff’s work allows for him to combine his deepest passions of connecting people and supporting individuals in their journey of transformation, and to be his own human lab, exploring what is possible in this lifetime.
Our Host: Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources:* Learn more about Jeff and his work at PerformanceParagon.com
More from Women Amplified Call for submissions! Tell us what you’re dealing with at work or at home and you could be paired with an expert for an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question” on Women Amplified*! Learn more. * Sign up for our email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops.
More from the Conferences for Women Now on sale! Registration is now open for all three of our three fall conferences in Austin (October 2), Philadelphia (November 7), and Boston (December 12). Listeners, save $25 on your ticket with discount code BELONG24! * Check out the FREE* Career Connections Program from the Conferences for Women for expert tips, connections, and career opportunities at companies that support women.
Photo credit: iStock/Nataliia Nesterenko
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This episode features The Karma of Success author Liz Tran, a pioneer in blending spirituality with practical strategies for personal and professional growth. She will share insights to help you recognize your core competencies, understand your motivators, and offer ways to manage your strengths effectively. With a mix of advice and inspiration, you will leave feeling empowered to navigate your life with clarity and purpose.
(This episode is a replay from the March 2024 National Conference for Women.)
Our Guest: Liz TranLiz Tran is the creator of Reset, an executive coaching company to CEOs and founders. Before Reset, Tran spent a decade in tech, most recently as the only female executive at a top venture capital firm. Today, Tran coaches the CEOs and founders of the fastest-growing companies in the world, and altogether they have raised more than $500 million in funding and created over $4 billion in enterprise value. Her clients are backed by funds like A16Z, Box Group, General Catalyst, Insight, Sequoia, Tiger, Thrive, and Y Combinator. In addition to her fifteen years of tech and VC experience, Tran also coaches from her spiritual practice. She is a Buddhist, trained meditation teacher, and studied at the Samyak Ashram in Dharamshala, India. She is the creator of the podcast, Reset with Liz Tran and the author of The Karma of Success.
Our Host: Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources: Learn more about Liz and her book, The Karma of Success, at Liz-Tran.com * Check out Liz’s podcast, Reset with Liz Tran*
More from Women Amplified Sign up for our email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops. * Call for submissions! Tell us what you’re dealing with at work or at home and you could be paired with an expert for an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question” on Women Amplified*! Learn more.
More from the Conferences for Women Now on sale! Registration is now open for all three of our three fall conferences in Austin (May 1), Philadelphia (May 8), and Boston (May 15). Use discount code BELONG24 to save $25 on your registration. * Check out the FREE* Career Connections Program from the Conferences for Women for expert tips, connections, and career opportunities at companies that support women.
The post Tap into Your Inner Genius and Progress Your Career appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
In this episode, Kara Stevens — AKA the Frugal Feminista and author of Heal Your Relationship with Money — brings her signature honesty and compassion to a candid conversation about all things money. Learn the tactical ways you can save, invest, build wealth and retire, without sacrificing today. And explore how your emotional relationship with money is impacting your bottom line and approach to financial planning.
Listeners will walk away with practical financial strategies … and what steps to take toward healing and thriving.
Our Guest: Kara StevensKara Stevens is the founder of The Frugal Feminista, a thriving personal finance and personal development company committed to helping people heal their relationships with money and themselves. Her relatable financial advice has been featured on Forbes, CNN, Business Insider, Huffington Post, Yahoo Finance, ESSENCE, Women’s Day Magazine, The Washington Post, and other nationally recognized media outlets. She is also the author of heal your relationship with money, The Happy Finances Challenge, and Unmasking the Strong Black Woman.
Our Host: Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources:* Learn more at TheFrugalFeminista.com * Find Kara on Twitter (@frugalfeminista), Instagram (@frugalfeminista), and Facebook (@TheFrugalFeminista)
More from Women Amplified Sign up for our email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops. * That’s a Good Question! Tell us what you’re dealing with at work or at home and you could be paired with an expert for an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question” on Women Amplified*! Learn more.
More from the Conferences for Women Save the Date: Registration opens soon for our three fall conferences in Austin (May 1), Philadelphia (May 8), and Boston (May 15). * Check out the FREE* Career Connections Program from the Conferences for Women for expert tips, connections, and career opportunities at companies that support women.
The post How To Deal – And Heal – With Your Money appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
In this episode, join Hillary Wicht, an acclaimed expert in executive leadership coaching, as she explores the art of communication.
Discover the hidden “power leaks” that undermine influence, and learn practical strategies to overcome them.
With Hillary’s guidance, listeners will learn how to build trust, ensure their voices are heard, and gain respect for their ideas. Drawing from her diverse background, Hillary will share how to break free from patterns that hold you back and step into your full potential, transforming your communication skills and impact.
Read more: The Art & Science of Effective Communication
Our Guest: Hillary WichtHillary Wicht is an esteemed executive coach and human systems expert, known for her innovative approach to leadership, “how we human is how we lead.” Her work in the psychology of pitching has gained recognition from the Stanford Entrepreneurial Program, and her insights into gender communication styles have been featured by the Wall Street Journal. A former stage actress and voice performer, Hillary has collaborated with celebrities like Kelly Clarkson and LL Cool J, and worked with major brands such as McDonald’s and Toyota. Her diverse experience in entertainment, athletics, and business has shaped her growth mindset and passion for helping individuals and teams break free from routine patterns to achieve exponential leadership.
Our Host: Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources:* Access some of Wicht’s recommended resources at HillaryWicht.com
More from Women Amplified That’s a Good Question! Tell us what you’re dealing with at work or at home and you could be paired with an expert for an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question” on Women Amplified*! Learn more. * Sign up for our email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops.
More from the Conferences for Women Check out the FREE Career Connections Program from the Conferences for Women for expert tips, connection opportunities, and opportunities to advance at companies that support women. * Save the Date:* Registration for our three fall conferences in Austin, Philadelphia, and Boston will open on May 1, 8, and 15th, respectively.
The post The Art & Science of Effective Communication appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
In today’s competitive job landscape, acing an interview is more challenging than ever.
Anna Papalia, seasoned HR expert and author of the transformative guide Interviewology, brings a game-changing approach to mastering interviews. In this enlightening conversation, uncover the pivotal role of self-awareness, and why standard advice often misses the mark.
Explore the four distinct interview styles—Charmer, Challenger, Examiner, and Harmonizer—and how recognizing them can shift the dynamics in your favor. With Anna’s actionable insights, learn to sidestep common pitfalls, embrace your unique style, and truly resonate with your interviewer.
Interviewology isn’t just about securing a job—it’s a journey to understanding oneself, empowering you to shine authentically in every interaction.
Read more: Secrets to a Successful Interview
Our Guest: Anna PapaliaAnna Papalia is the CEO of Interviewology, a keynote speaker, and a career influencer with over 1.5 million followers across social media platforms. She has worked with large companies, such as Cigna and Lincoln Financial, and taught at Temple University’s Fox School of Business for 12 years, where she collected research and discovered the four interview styles. As a former Director of Talent Acquisition turned career coach, she has vast experience on both sides of the interview table and knows what it takes to interview better. She has advised more than 10,000 clients, helping students, entrepreneurs, senior executives, and job seekers in all industries, and taught hundreds of corporate training sessions dedicated to training hiring managers how to interview. Nominated for HR Person of the Year in 2020, she is also a public speaker at the Society for Human Resource Management (SHRM) and DisruptHR, and is a highly sought-after thought leader on all things interviewing. She lives in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Our Host: Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources: Read Papalia’s new book, Interviewology: The New Science of Interviewing* * Check out the FREE Career Connections Program from the Conferences for Women for more expert tips, connection opportunities, and opportunities to advance at companies that support women.
More from Women Amplified That’s a Good Question! Tell us what you’re dealing with at work or at home and you could be paired with an expert for an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question” on Women Amplified*! Learn more. * Sign up for our email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops.
The post Secrets to a Successful Interview appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
This episode features an extraordinary conversation between chef and humanitarian José Andrés and Target strategic advisor Laysha Ward.
Andrés’s work with World Central Kitchen recently earned him a nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize. In this conversation, which was recorded at the 2023 Pennsylvania Conference for Women, we’ll hear about his work fighting hunger, the power of compassion, adaptive leadership, and effecting positive social change.
Learn from his vision for creating a more equitable and nourished world — and identify small ways in which you, too, can make a difference and have an impact.
Our Guest: José AndrésJosé Andrés, named one of Time magazine’s 100 Most Influential People in 2012 and 2018, and awarded the 2015 National Humanities Medal from President Barack Obama, is an internationally recognized humanitarian, culinary innovator, educator, and New York Times bestselling author. A pioneer of Spanish tapas in the United States, he is also known for his groundbreaking avant-garde cuisine and his award-winning restaurant collective, JoséAndrésGroup. In 2021, he launched José Andrés Media (JAM) which produces television series, books, podcasts, and digital content with a focus on food-related stories and the culture of food. JAM projects include the Emmy-nominated series José & Family in Spain for Max and the Longer Tables podcast. In 2023, Andrés and George Washington University partnered to lead the world in delivering food system solutions through a Global Food Institute, powered by interdisciplinary research and teaching. In 2010, Andrés founded World Central Kitchen, a non-profit which uses the power of food to nourish communities and strengthen economies in times of crisis and beyond. WCK continues to respond to natural disasters ranging from hurricanes, wildfires, and earthquakes, as well as humanitarian emergencies around the world. Andrés’ work has earned awards and distinctions, including Outstanding Chef and Humanitarian of the Year by the James Beard Foundation and the 2017 Lifetime Achievement Award from the International Association of Culinary Professionals. Andrés and World Central Kitchen were awarded the Princesa de Asturias Foundation’s 2021 Concordia Prize. As a naturalized citizen originally from Spain, Andrés has also been a tireless advocate for immigration reform.
Guest Host: Laysha WardLaysha Ward is an accomplished C-suite executive with 32 years of leadership experience at Target, where she now serves as Strategic Advisor. In 2017, Ms. Ward was named Executive Vice President, Chief External Engagement Officer, overseeing Target’s enterprise-wide approach to engage and deepen relationships with cross-sector stakeholders to drive positive business and community impact. She is a founding member of the Racial Equity Action and Change committee
(REACH), established in 2020 to help lead the organization’s strategy to drive lasting impact for Black team members, guests and communities. Ms. Ward began her career with Target in 1991 as a member of the store sales and management team of Marshall Fields in Chicago. She was named Director of Community Relations in 2000 and promoted to Vice President of Community Relations and Target Foundation in 2003. She previously served as Executive Vice President, Chief Corporate Social Responsibility Officer before being named to her current position. In 2008, President Bush nominated and the U.S. Senate confirmed Ms. Ward to serve on the board of directors of the Corporation for National and Community Service, the nation’s largest grantmaker for volunteering and service. She continued on the board under the Obama Administration, where she served as board chair. Later that year, she was promoted to President of Community Relations and the Target Foundation.
She serves on the Aspen Institute Latinos and Society Advisory Board and the Stanford Center for Longevity Advisory Council; is a member of the Executive Leadership Council,
the Economic Clubs of New York and Chicago, Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, and The Links,
and serves on the boards of Greater MSP, the Minnesota Orchestra, and the Northside
Achievement Zone. Laysha is also a member of Denny’s Corporation board of directors
and United Airlines board of directors. She received a bachelor’s degree from Indiana University, master’s degree from the University of Chicago, and an Honorary Doctorate of Laws from the University of Minnesota’s Humphrey School of Public Affairs. She and her husband, Bill, reside in Minneapolis, MN.
Women Amplified Host: Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources: JoséAndrés.com (for more about the chef and his restaurants) * WCK.org (for more about World Central Kitchen) * Laysha’s Lessons from the C-Suite (Laysha Ward’s LinkedIn newsletter) * Andrés makes a small cameo in this early-pandemic-era NYT Magazine* article by Gabrielle Hamilton. It’s not about him exactly, but it’s a great read.
More from Women Amplified Join us for a groundbreaking virtual gathering this March 14th at the very first National Conference for Women. Enjoy powerhouse speakers, digital networking opportunities, and more — no travel required. Get your ticket today! * That’s a Good Question! Tell us what you’re dealing with at work or at home and you could be paired with an expert for an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question” on Women Amplified*! Learn more. * Sign up for our email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops.
Episode TranscriptLaysha Ward:
Well, we are about to have a conversation that will be food for our souls, so I really appreciate you all giving us your full attention. You are in for a real treat, Jose, you are of course an extraordinary human, a world renowned chef. He has four Michelin stars, over 30 restaurants worldwide. You are an author, a podcast host, you’re also a humanitarian, a dad, a partner. So many extraordinary things. And so I’d like to have our conversation start back in the early days, okay?
José Andrés:
Okay.
Laysha Ward:
You came over to the United States at the early age of 21 as an immigrant with the equivalent of about $50 in your pocket, which is extraordinary and built your business empire and became an expert philanthropic icon in hunger relief. And so I’m just curious, given the journey that you’ve been on, you’ve learned so much about leadership and perseverance and determination. What would be some of the leadership lessons that you could share with all of us?
José Andrés:
Well, wow, I always say that every one of us, every one of you, we are who we are. Thanks to the people that surround who we are in the present in the past, people that sometimes forget people that sometimes you have to be a grown up person to have memories and to realize that that person was a far away, more influential person in your life than you ever thought. And I will say that early memories and unfortunately something I realized when I became much older but will be my mom, I didn’t have, life is complicated, right? And I didn’t have what I would say the best relationship with my mom, but nobody could give more thanks to who I am today than my mom. And often now that she’s not any longer with us, I maybe have a regret that I wish I did. And that’s why I always tell everybody, open up your mind and your heart, especially to those people that they help you be who you are. But my mom was an excellent cook. She was the cook at home Monday through Friday. My father helped my three brothers and I would help, but my father was more the weekend cook. But my mom,
She will be this magician that at the end of the month when there was no more money and my father and mother had to wait for the next paycheck, she will go into the fridge. And when sometimes the fridge, when you go to Best Buy or Target,
Thank you, and you are buying and you buy a new fridge and it’s empty at the end of the month, the fridge look like this in my house and my mom will be able to get the last remaining little piece from the roasted chicken and half a boiled egg and out of nothing, she will make this bacha milk with flour and milk. She will add the chopped chicken and the chopped egg, and she will make this amazing croquetas with the bread that was left over during the week. She will use the coffee grinder to make breadcrumbs. That’s why the coffee in my house was always very thick
And my mom will make those croquetas. That to this day, if you ask my brothers and I, what is the most amazing memories was us helping my mom, making the croquetas, us helping my mom fry the croquetas, but especially sitting down and making sure that everybody got the right amount of croquetas equally between the brothers. There was not only my mom showing me what a talented cook she was, but was my mom also the loving mother feeding us even when sometimes at the end of the month was again, no more money. She was showing us as a cook that now I am a humanitarian. I didn’t realize that she was the person that in me made me understand that we can do a lot even when we feel we have nothing. So I will say that my mom in these early parts of my life was the person that planted the seed on me of knowledge is power.
Many years later in 1993, I was in different low-income parts of Washington DC sharing the Croquetas story and the croquetas recipe of my mother with families that they needed knowledge about how to feed their families without spending a lot of money. If you think about it, life is a beautiful story that sometimes we forget to connect the dots, but now I understand why my mom taught me when I was a young boy, six, seven, 8-year-old boy. That story, that progeta recipe, I’ve been able to bring that story to many other parts of my life in this case, in a low income neighborhood in Washington DC that I know now many of the people are passing the legacy of my mom.
Laysha Ward:
And what’s so powerful about that is you also found a way to build a connection to that community, right? A way for them to see that you in many ways were more alike than different. And what a beautiful story to celebrate not only your mother, but so many of the moms in this room who are making a way out of no way for their families as well. Really powerful. I love that story. And the connection to something you said too about your mom teaching you about being able to feed people, right? It seems to me that you’ve always been called to, that feeding people connected to your purpose in a way. Why is that beyond this sort of lesson from your mother, do you think you’ve been called into that as a vocation?
José Andrés:
Well, I think my father told you that he will cook on the weekends and he will cook for everybody who will come. My father will not keep track of who they will invite. And my mom, who was the one that had to make sure everything will work, how many people you invited? 10 or 30. My father for that was a very easy guy in his answers. He always thought that big problems have very simple solutions. So when sometimes my mom or my brothers and I will tell, but daddy, how many people are coming? If more people come, what do we do? No problem. We only add more rice to Japan.
But for me, it was a moment that was very iconic in my life. I arrived Washington DC in 1993 and three years later, 1996 was a building red brick mortar building and they were doing construction and somebody found the belongings boxes of somebody that somebody was a woman that used that red brick building as the home and as the office, that red brick mortar building was the house where this woman created the office of the missing soldier’s office. One person, a nurse like my mom that thought that we had to be bringing light to what happened to the many people that perished or disappeared during the American Civil War. That woman was Clara Barton. That’s the woman that also created the American Red Cross. And this is kind of a very early example in my life that I saw this person, this woman, like my mom, she put her knowledge not only to take care of the few, but her knowledge and her way to see the world, to help the many.
We all do have that talent in a way, she’s a person. Even I never met her because already her story is distant, that she also planted the seed and sent a message saying, we all have a talent. Who do you send to stop a fire when there is one in the city? The firefighters. Who do you send to take care of the wounded after explosion or in a war zone? Doctors and nurses. Who do you think will be the best person you can send to feed people after an emergency? You see, again, simple, a big problem sometimes have simple solutions. Clara Barton in a way, after I began reading and knowing more about her, she showed me that sometimes every one of us, every one of you have that talent to do so much more. You only have to believe in yourself
Laysha Ward:
Clearly. You have believed in yourself clearly. And I’m struck and moved by how you have been called into serving during disasters and crises, right? Trying to make sure that people are fed and nourished in some of the most challenging times of their lives. And in fact, you said something here, you once were quoted to say something about being a chef makes you uniquely qualified for disaster relief and crisis. What do you mean by that?
José Andrés:
Well, okay, all of you go to restaurants, right?
Laysha Ward:
I
José Andrés:
Do. Raise your hand if you go to a restaurant once a week, welcome people. We need you. I have cookbooks, but the recipes don’t really work. Why? I want you to cook at home when I need you to come to my restaurant.
Laysha Ward:
I spend a lot to your restaurants and they’re all fabulous, I might add,
José Andrés:
But restaurants are places that they can be very chaotic. There’s a lot of chaos in a restaurant on a Friday night. Everybody has garlic. Is shrimp with no garlic? I No, it’s rem. And on top of that, I cannot pronounce his rem. Yeah, you tell me about it.
Speaker 8:
But how is it?
José Andrés:
So restaurants are displaced that you have, you can plan all you want, and we all live life with a plan. And sometimes life doesn’t come with instructions. You tell me, I very became a husband and is like, how is the instructions to be a good husband? You become a father. What are the instructions to be a good father? And very often we are all trained and prepared to follow a plan, the plan of life. What happens when things don’t go as planned that we fail? Because sometimes we stop because we’ve been trained all our lives to follow that plan. And when we don’t see the door in an I way, we freeze. We need to start embracing the complexities of the moment in our private lives, in our families, in our communities, in our work.
And we need to embrace that complexity and start talking about adaptation. Let’s adapt to every moment. Let’s adapt to every situation. Let’s make sure that every time something happens, it’s a moment for us to raise above the issue we are trying to solve. And for that, let me tell you, and not because I am in a conference for women, but if you ask me who is the most capable people in the world, not to follow a plan but to adapt, I have all of you in front of me. Women are ready to adapt to any circumstance. I’ve seen it with my mom, I’ve seen it with my grandmas, I’ve seen it with my wife. Adaptation will win the day. That’s why we need more women up there in places of power, from companies to countries. Guys, we’ve been running the world away with too many mens and take a look, the message we are creating. So what every one of you is waiting for to run for every single office, Republicans and Democrats, independence, I don’t care. We need you up there helping us adapt to the lives and moments we are living.
Laysha Ward:
Amen. Can I have the crowd say amen? Amen. I love that adaptive leadership so important. We spend a lot of time talking about that at Target as well. It’s important to have adaptive leadership qualities and I do agree that more women leaders make a big difference in an organization and in the world, and we have a lot of extraordinary women leaders
José Andrés:
Here. You are adapting. I am. Are you going to help me give a big round of applause. She’s been working at Target for 32 years and she’s retiring next year and still she has another lifetime ahead of her. Yeah,
Laysha Ward:
Thank you. Yeah,
José Andrés:
I already know somebody should be running for office.
Laysha Ward:
Thank you very much. She and I were just talking. We’re the same age, by the way. So he’s my brother from another mother, and I shared with him that on Tuesday I did announce after 32 years I’ll be retiring in April. And so I’m excited to adapt and have another chapter. So I’m feeling very blessed and grateful and highly favored to think about the ways that I can continue to have an impact in the world. So very kind of you to turn that spotlight on me, not to you as well, but I’m going to turn the spotlight back on you. Okay? Okay. And it’s a spotlight so well-deserved. I’ve been following you for a long time and I was so inspired by the work that you’ve been doing in Ukraine just yet another example of where you go to where there is such extraordinary need. And when you go into these places, it must be difficult to know exactly what to do when you hit the ground. So much chaos. And to your point, adaptive leadership is likely a component of that. But how do you figure out what to do first in such a complicated situation? And then how do you also continue to engage and inspire and mobilize your teams because they have to be there for an extended period of time providing those critical services, incredibly dangerous settings.
José Andrés:
Yeah. Well, so in my life it’s been beyond my restaurants and my family and especially my wife, who I will not lie to you if I don’t tell you everything I am today. It wouldn’t be happening if I didn’t have my wife Patricia next to me. I love that.
Laysha Ward:
Let’s give it up for that
José Andrés:
Because she gave me the freedom to do things but not use the freedom, the wise words and the support and the wisdom and the whispers in the ear. Yeah, without my wife, I wouldn’t do much of what I’ve ever done. But organizations for me were important is this is RA Kitchen. Anybody from Washington DC here? Marianne, Virginia. Oh, I love you too.
This is RA Kitchen. I arrive as a young cook and I’m not going to make it long. But anytime any one of you is in DC, please visit DC Central Kitchen. This was funded by a man called Robert Egger. He’s retired now and he’s the guy that told me that philanthropy seems always is about the redemption of the giver. When philanthropy must be about the liberation of the receiver, this is a big phrase, powerful phrase. We all do good, but we must all do a smart good. So this organization was great because it was fighting food waste. But more important, we were fighting not wasting people’s life. And this organization will get people out of the streets sometimes drugs, drug addicts. One of the early teachers was, she’s not any longer with us, Marianne Ali, she became like a sister to me. She was a woman that came from the streets, torn her life around and became the one teaching everybody coming from the streets or from jail in how they could be themselves, agents of change for themselves and for the community. So this Isra Kitchen did that food waste, giving opportunity to people, training them to be cooks, putting everything together in the process, producing 10, 20,000 meals a day and feeding the community and in the process restaurants like me. We could be hiring those amazing people. $1. $1 to give opportunity to people, $1 to train people, $1 to rescue food, waste $1 to feed the homeless, $1 to employ people around the city, $1 multiply five 10 times
Laysha Ward:
Collective impact. Really amazing collective
José Andrés:
Impact. And this showed me the power of food to change the world. One community at a time. War central kitchen use happened because I was too comfortable when I was watching the horrors of after hurricanes New Orleans, Katrina, category five, hurricane, thousands of Americans, low nine forgotten, no way to go help, no activation for adaptation because the plans were no longer feasible. But we had tens, thousands of people in the Superdome and we forgot about them. Do you know what the Superdome is? An arena, a stadium. Everybody thinks it’s a place for sports or music, but everybody’s wrong. An arena, a baseball stadium, an FL stadium. It’s a gigantic restaurant that entertains with the sports and music. Everybody’s sitting hotdogs in the baseball stadium. So imagine if we were able to go activate the community, people that were stranded there and just open the same places that in the good times are feeding, but now transforming those places to feed people in need.
Laysha Ward:
And you’ve been doing that in the United States and all over the
José Andrés:
World. So this is how ation began. I watched from the comfort of my home how Katrina was unfolding. I didn’t go. I was younger. It’s not like I could escape my work. But then Haiti happened. 2010, one of the biggest earthquakes in the history, hundreds of thousands of people die.
Laysha Ward:
Devastating.
José Andrés:
The devastation beyond imagination. I went there on my own with two friends with one simple idea, not to help but let me go to learn. And that’s how the beginning of war drag action was. That’s
Laysha Ward:
Extraordinary.
José Andrés:
To go to emergencies, the latest one, we are right now helping feed people in Israel that they lost life. And because the Hamas attack we’re also in GAA helping Palestinians, we’re providing support from Egypt at the end. We are building longer tables. We all are one. We all need to wish for others what we wish for our own. What Zen Drag Kitchen does is trying to build longer tables.
Laysha Ward:
It’s such a powerful message. Building longer tables, food as a source of unification, nourishment, as I said earlier, we’re going to be nourishing our souls here and you’re teaching us about nourishing not only our own souls, but the souls of others. And it’s a really powerful message. I would say that some of the ways that you’ve done that successfully is through one of your gifts, which is storytelling. You do an extraordinary job of taking things that are complex and at times divisive and humanizing it. And I do think it’s through powerful storytelling that people can begin to find ways of connecting. And you have a whole business around that. You have a production company and are doing a lot of amazing things to share powerful stories that engage and inspire us and give us hope and inspiration. So could you tell us a little bit about storytelling and why you have that business?
José Andrés:
We mentioned about Wall Central Kitchen. If anybody wants to learn more about Wall Central Kitchen, a Disney plus. Ron Howard, the amazing director, did the story of Wall Central Kitchen. It’s called We Feed People. Very simple name. It’s beautiful. And there you’re going to see the work of the man and woman of Wolf Kitchen all across America, and especially all across the world now. But I do believe storytelling is important. I’m not a good painter. I’m not a good writer. You see my English, my daughters tell me when I was young, when I was a younger dad going to school, daddy, please speak Spanish to us and we’ll translate. I’m like, really?
As an immigrant, my love, I know the country come from, and I know also the country belong. I’m a very proud immigrant. I feel I’ve been all my time, all my life an immigrant, and I believe immigrants like me. Even I felt an immigrant in Spain growing up because in the moment you move from one region to another, even if Spain, it’s like you are an immigrant in a way. We’re all immigrants. It’s beyond flags and borders, but immigrants, we all have the responsibility to build bridges. So right now, for example, I have this amazing show on CNN and this is a commercial which is called Jose Andres and family in Spain. Not very creative name, no, but
Laysha Ward:
It’s lovely. It’s with him and his
José Andrés:
Daughters. But tells the story of the country I came from, but also tells the story of three daughters who are rolling the eyes every time your dad speaks.
So I invite you to watch it. It’s on Sundays at 9:00 PM It’s lovely, Jose Andre. But then there’s many more stories we need to be telling. One story I want to be telling and we don’t know, we’re talking about woman, an empowering woman. Over 3 billion people on planet earth cook with charcoal fossil fuels as the only way to feed their families. Those 3 billion people you know who fits the world. Every time you read about, there’s always chefs who seem they’re the top chefs in the cities. But can I tell you who fits the world? Who is in every little town that has no name is always woman. Women are the ones feeding the world.
And what we need to make sure that in the process of feeding the world, women are not putter because it’s very important that they are not. Because very often they are the mother of their family, if not all the time, and cannot be that in the process of feeding their families. Many women die because they inhale the smoke, they overspend money because the charcoal keeps burning and they over buy charcoal to feed the families when they’re only making $3 a day, but they’re spending 20, 30, 40 cents a day to cook one meal. Deforestation, young girls don’t go to school. Why? Because they send them to the forest to pick up the wood. They get in danger, they don’t receive education. So one of the biggest issues we are going to be facing that we can make a huge difference in ending hunger and poverty and empowering women around the world is investing in clean cook stoves to every single family around the world. That women are the ones carrying the boarding of feeding those families. This is the ways we can be telling stories to change the world, but really making it happen with boots on the ground.
Laysha Ward:
Thank you very much. In fact, we unfortunately have run out of time. We have to wrap. But I’m going to squeeze in one more question because it I think is really important to share with this incredibly connected community, which is on hope and optimism. We want to end on hope and optimism and activation. So from your perspective, how can we continue to inspire this community to really move from, I’d like to help to actually helping. What are some words of wisdom that you would share and provide about how we can use our gifts, our talents, and our treasures to make a difference in our communities?
José Andrés:
Please wrap up. Please wrap up. This is popping up quickly.
Listen, I think that you are already here listening to leaders of the community, people that you can be inspired by. I think that’s one amazing step, but I think it’s time to start putting the boots on the ground. It’s time that we stop clapping so much and start making things happen is the moment that we need to start really building longer tables where everybody is welcome. That what is good for your family must be good for the other family. That we understand that we need to give the dignity that we want to receive, that we need to give the empathy that we want to receive, and that if we respect each other and we stop clapping so much every time somebody gives a speech, but we make sure that the speech is followed with actions on the ground, that’s the way we can have a chance to start making real change. Biggest speeches at the United Nations for the last 60 years has not end hunger and poverty. Actually, it seems that hunger and poverty keeps growing. We need to make sure that we make our leaders in a good way, accountable of their promises. Promises need to follow action. Action with boots on the ground. They show real success altogether. We can do this. We all should be part of the solution.
Laysha Ward:
Thank you very much applies to not only our words, but to our actions. Thank you. Thank you.
The post Feeding the Soul: A Conversation with José Andrés and Laysha Ward appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
This episode originally aired in June of 2023. We’re closing out the year by highlighting the best episodes of 2023. We hope you’re enjoying some much-needed down time!
The Women Amplified listener featured in this episode of “That’s a Good Question” is leading a remote business unit with ambitious goals, a steep climb ahead, and limited resources.
She’s struggling with the tricky juggling act of keeping her team engaged — while avoiding the balance and burnout conundrum — and without compromising her hands-off leadership style.
Through active problem solving, practical advice and shared experiences, our host Celeste Headlee and guest expert Brooke Bass of Liberty Mutual team up to help. Our listener will gain actionable tips and strategies to identify the right priorities to focus on, work “smarter” but not “harder,” and ultimately create a balance that allows her team to shine with autonomy and freedom.
Are you struggling with an issue at work — or at home? Submit your question here and we’ll try our best to help on an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question!”
Brooke BassBrooke Bass is the senior vice president and manager, property claims for Global Retail Markets US. She leads a department of 2,400 professionals that handle personal and small commercial property claims in the US and provide customers peace of mind when they need it most. Bass began her career with Liberty Mutual Insurance in 2004 as a consultant in corporate strategy & research (CS&R), where she worked on engagements for all SBUs. Prior to her current position, which is based in Boston, she was VP & manager of corporate strategy & research, and prior to that assistant vice president and assistant claims product manager for personal markets property claims. Bass holds a BS in environmental engineering from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and an MBA from the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth College. She obtained her CPCU designation in 2007.
Celeste Headlee*Celeste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway* from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources Do you have a problem? Let’s solve it! Tell us about your work/ life challenge here and you could be featured on an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question!” * Sign up for the Women Amplified email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops. * Join us for a groundbreaking virtual gathering this March 14th* at the very first National Conference for Women. Enjoy powerhouse speakers, digital networking opportunities, and more — no travel required. Get your ticket today!
Photo credit: iStock/Rudzhan Nagiev
The post Best of Women Amplified | Juggling Team Engagement & Balance | T.A.G.Q. appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
This episode originally aired in January of 2023. We’re closing out the year by highlighting the best episodes of 2023. We hope you’re enjoying some much-needed down time!
This episode features an extraordinary conversation between award-winning author Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie (Americanah, Notes on Grief) and Target strategic advisor Laysha Ward.
Spoken or written, words are a powerful vehicle to share knowledge, offer perspectives and influence others. They can be truths, facts, or alternatively, they can perpetuate negative thoughts, stereotypes, even fake news.
Recorded at the December 2022 Massachusetts Conference for Women, these two women explore Chimamanda’s journey to offer perspective around the power of words, acknowledging differences, and being fully inclusive. Learn how to avoid rushing to judgment and to truly understand opinions — even those that strongly differ from your own.
Our Guest: Chimamanda Ngozi AdichieChimamanda Ngozi Adichie is an award-winning author born in Enugu, Nigeria. She graduated summa cum laude from Eastern Connecticut State University with a degree in communication and political science. She has a master’s degree in African studies from Yale University, and in creative writing from Johns Hopkins University. She was awarded a Hodder fellowship at Princeton University and a fellowship at the Radcliffe Institute of Harvard University. She received a MacArthur Fellowship, popularly known as the “genius grant.” She has received honorary doctorate degrees from 15 prestigious universities and colleges. Adichie’s work has been translated into over thirty languages. Her first novel, Purple Hibiscus, won the Commonwealth Writers’ Prize, and her second novel, Half of a Yellow Sun, won the Orange Prize. Her novel Americanah won the US National Book Critics Circle Award, and was named one of The New York Times Top Ten Best Books of 2013. She has delivered two landmark TED talks: The Danger of A Single Story and We Should All Be Feminists, which started a worldwide conversation about feminism. Her most recent work, Notes On Grief, an essay about losing her father, was published in 2021. She was named one of TIME Magazine’s 100 Most Influential People in the World in 2015. In 2017, Fortune Magazine named her one of the World’s 50 Greatest Leaders. Adichie divides her time between the United States and Nigeria, where she leads an annual creative writing workshop.
Guest Host: Laysha WardLaysha Ward is an accomplished C-suite executive with thirty years of leadership experience at Target. In 2017, Ward was named executive vice president, chief external engagement officer, overseeing Target’s enterprise-wide approach to engage and deepen relationships with cross-sector stakeholders to drive positive business and community impact. In 1991, Ward began her career with Target as a member of the store sales and management team of Marshall Fields in Chicago. In 2000, she was named director of community relations and promoted to vice president of community relations and Target Foundation in 2003. In 2008, President Bush nominated, and the U.S. Senate confirmed Ward would serve on the board of directors of the Corporation for National and Community Service, the nation’s largest grantmaker for volunteering and service, which she continued to serve as board chair under the Obama Administration. Later that year, she was promoted to president of community relations and the Target Foundation. She serves on the Aspen Institute Latinos and Society Advisory Board and the Stanford Center for Longevity Advisory Council, is a member of the Executive Leadership Council, the Economic Clubs of New York and Chicago, Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, The Links, and serves on the boards of Greater MSP, the Minnesota Orchestra, and the Northside Achievement Zone, as well as United Airlines and Denny’s Corporation for-profit board of directors. She received a bachelor’s degree from Indiana University, master’s degree from the University of Chicago, and an honorary Doctorate of Laws from the University of Minnesota’s Humphrey School of Public Affairs. She and her husband, Bill, reside in Minneapolis, MN.
Women Amplified Host: Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources:* Website: Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
More from Women Amplified That’s a Good Question! Tell us what you’re dealing with at work or at home and you could be paired with an expert for an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question” on Women Amplified*! Learn more. * Sign up for our email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops. * Join us for a groundbreaking virtual gathering this March 14th at the very first National Conference for Women. Enjoy powerhouse speakers, digital networking opportunities, and more — no travel required. Get your ticket today!
Episode TranscriptLaysha Ward:
Chimamanda, it’s such a gift to have you here today. You know, I share your passion for storytelling and the power of words. Now I often say that when we share our stories, when we speak our truth, we learn to celebrate our dimensions of difference and the things that we have in common. What can we do to encourage more people, especially women, to share their stories, our stories?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
So you know, we know from statistics that women read men and women and men read men. I think one of the things we need to do is get, try and get everyone to read women’s stories. So push women’s stories, talk about women’s stories, but also tell women that it’s okay to tell their stories. I think there’s a lot about the way that women are socialized that they sometimes think they shouldn’t occupy so much space. They shouldn’t talk too much about themselves. They should sort of keep themselves back. And and so I think there’s a kind of, that we need to find ways to make it ordinary and normal for women to tell their stories. I think that women’s stories are undertold and under read and underappreciated. And I sometimes think that maybe many of the problems we have would be, and this is maybe wishful thinking, but that many of the problems we have would be if not eliminated, reduced if more people read women’s stories.
Laysha Ward:
How do you practice the kind of listening that drives true understanding? Yes, we’ve talked about needing to read more and having it be a broad variety of our stories, but how do we ensure that people are actually listening to the stories as we want them to be delivered and, and taken in?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
I think maybe I can, I can speak for myself, which is silence when I really, I think it’s so important to be silent when someone else is talking. And I’ve, I’ve found that it’s quite difficult for a lot of people to do. So people are very, very quick to want to sort of, and it’s, you know, it’s very sweet. It’s well-meaning. People want to give their opinion, but often I find that they’re not really listening. What they’re waiting for is for whoever is speaking to stop so that they can say something , right? And, and so for me it’s, it’s, it’s really important to have a kind of, you know, kind of considered silence. When people are talking to me, I’m quiet as I’m listening, like I just, I’m completely quiet and, you know, I want to hear what they’re saying before I can actually say something.
And so I’m not thinking about what I’m going to say, I’m thinking about what they are saying, and it kind of seems almost self-evident and obvious. But, but it’s, I think it’s difficult for a number of people. So I would say we need to practice what I would call a kind of a kind of present silence when people are speaking and even when we read, you know, life is now so quick. You know, time is in such short supply for so many people that even reading is something we do without that kind of considered silence. People read fast and often miss things. And and it’s, it’s kind of a pet peeve of mine when someone, you know, I have someone read something and then I I I’m talking to them and I realize, wait, did you not even read that part?
Laysha Ward:
You know, I’ve certainly experienced that as well. I love how you frame it up by being silent and being comfortable in that silence, I think is something that’s difficult for many of us. Certainly difficult for me, and active listening requires active silence. Really appreciate that perspective. So, following up on that from another standpoint, how do you respond in the moment when it’s clear that someone isn’t listening to you?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Oh, it depends on the time of the month.
Laysha Ward:
Say more about that.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
So if I’m, if I’m not in a good place, I respond by using very sharp language. If I’m in a better place, you know, I say things like, actually my family and I have a joke, which we call the crocodile joke, right? And that’s because when I’m talking to members of my family, my husband, my siblings, and sometimes also my very close friends, when I sense that they’re not listening to me, I say something and I include the word crocodile because that’s just the most absurd thing, right? And if they then turn and they’re like, wait, what crocodile, then I know they’re listening Crocodile
Laysha Ward:
What? Crocodile. So they’re, I’m, I’m about to cry crocodile tears because you made me laugh so hard.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
So I do the crocodile thing because I’m trying to, you know, trip them up. Are you really listening to me? So I’m sort of talking about, I don’t know some, some, I don’t know, government policy, , and I feel like they’re not listening. Then I say, and then the crocodile came out.
Laysha Ward:
I’m going to use that. When the crocodile came out, I, it’s definitely something I’m gonna pick up on after our conversation. You know, communication is a two-way street. It requires patience and discipline and, and definitely listening so that we know that we’re actually understanding, truly understanding what someone is trying to share with us. And I think when we practice this sort of patience and discipline we can gain a deeper understanding of one another. And you’ve also just introduced some humor into the conversation, which I think is always helpful when we are trying to communicate with people as well.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Yes, absolutely. I think humor is, I think humor is an essential part of being human, you know, and it’s something that we all have in common. It cuts across cultures, cuts across, you know, we all laugh, but I also think you know, just, just to sort of add to what you said that we, the listener needs to make an effort, but I think the speaker also needs to make an effort. I think, you know, I think the speaker has a responsibility to be clear, to be engaging as much as possible. And so when, when people are not listening to me, my first thought is, alright, you’re just not listening to me. My second thought is maybe I’m not telling the story in the best way. You know, maybe I’m kind of boring , right? So then you, you need to sort of think about how you’re telling your story. Yes. Because you do have a responsibility to tell the story in the best possible way.
Laysha Ward:
Oh, I love that too. There’s a shared accountability, both in how you’re sharing the information as well as how one is listening. I often talk about the importance of listening to learn and understand versus just listening to win or fix. But, but you are going even deeper and talking about this idea of shared accountability in that communication, which I think is incredibly powerful. So thank you for that.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
I really like that listening to learn and fix. I would argue that there’s a gendered component there, but maybe we shouldn’t talk about that. No.
Laysha Ward:
Well, well, let’s, let’s build on that then. Let’s talk about the gender component in that. What would you, what would you add to that conversation?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
I think it just seems to me that men are more likely to kind of want to fix things and not in the end not really hearing what’s being said. And that may be because I think, and again, obviously we’re, we’re generalizing because they’re always exceptions, but I think if, if I were to suggest to men ways in in which they could improve their listening, one of the things I would say is don’t think about fixing it for now, ,
Laysha Ward:
We can come back to that, but to sort of focus initially on listening to learn and understand in service of a future solution.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Mm-Hmm. . Well, I think, I think really in general listening should be about that, you know, that that should be the goal that we want to understand really and hopefully learn of, of course. But, but we need to understand, I mean, I think that before you can agree or disagree with somebody, you have to actually understand what they are saying. And I, I sometimes feel that what’s happening today sort of in this sort of wall that we live in, where social media is such a, a central part of the way that we have public conversations is that often people actually haven’t heard what’s being said, right? They actually haven’t understood what’s being
Laysha Ward:
Said, or they only see one part of the story, perhaps using your words, a single story, a story that’s being sort of crafted for that particular platform.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Hmm. And I, and I think, you know, that I’ve talked often about the reason I think a single story is dangerous is that it’s not complete, right? And you, you can’t, you can’t if you’re making a decision based on, on incomplete information, then that decision in itself just becomes fundamentally flawed.
Laysha Ward:
Absolutely. That applies in our professional lives as well as our personal lives. And so that’s a really important point to get the full story, which is often complex and layered
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
More difficult. It’s more diffi. I think single stories are easier.
Laysha Ward:
Hmm. Absolutely. You’ve talked about the importance of using the BS or bullshit detector on yourself as well as on others. So tell us more about how we can apply this to our day-to-day interactions with colleagues and others.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
well, maybe with colleagues, maybe we shouldn’t, maybe we should find a more colleague friendly expression. Maybe bullshit detector won’t work, but
Laysha Ward:
. But, but, but it is authentic and real and to the point. So for now, until we rebrand it, let’s just go with the BS detector and talk about ways that we can apply it in our day-to-day interactions.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
You know what I think, I think fundamentally my my case for having a, a good BS detector is really about wanting and, and feeling that we must insist on authenticity and truth and realness. So I, I think it really just means if you feel that someone is bullshitting you to just say, so, I do that a lot. Sometimes it’s uncomfortable, you know, someone says to me, oh, I love your books. And I’m thinking, actually, you haven’t read them often, I can tell, you know, and I’m like, you know, thank you for your love, but you haven’t read them. And then I say, I would suggest that you read first. You know, I, I suggest a book for them to read. And I think it just makes for, I think it makes for a more I don’t know, a more, when we’re not bullshitting one another, then I think that we just live in a way that is more, and I don’t want to sound sort of very morally superior, but I think we live in a way that is more authentic.
And I think it’s so important. It’s, it’s just so in some ways that you’re cutting away the crap, you know? And, and I think life, life is complicated and life is difficult enough. We really don’t need someone just bullshitting us. And, and so really, I would say find ways to name it. And people have different styles, so it doesn’t have to be my direct way of saying, look, that’s bullshit. It could be . I don’t know. People find their ways of communicating, but I think as long as you let the person know, and I think in general, people who are well-meaning sometimes appreciate it because then they feel that they can be more authentic themselves, right? So the person who says, oh, I loved your books, and I’m like, mm-hmm. You haven’t read any, suddenly then feels more comfortable to say, actually, I don’t really read a lot, but I’ve listened to your talks. You know, that’s happened quite a bit. So I think in some ways you also let people not feel the pressure to be something that they’re not.
Laysha Ward:
I think you’re trying to create a safe space to be honest and build a trusted relationship and a trusting learning environment. And instead of just calling people out for the sake of calling people out, you’re actually welcoming them in, in a way that ideally will make them better and you better in a way that, you know, isn’t a shame and blame. It’s really about, you know, opening up a more trusted environment to have real talk.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
I really love that. I love the idea of welcoming them in. I really love that. Yes.
Laysha Ward:
So, girl, this is so helpful. I’m sure I’m going to be able to apply it. And you know, we have another practical question that we received from the audience. And she says, my male boss talks a lot about celebrating and championing women. For some reason, though, it actually comes across as patronizing. So she’s wondering if she should give in feedback, and if so, what should she say? Which is such a great question.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Hmm. It is. See, in some ways I think it’s similar to, to kind of what I talked about that, and this happens a lot, usually around International Women’s Day when people just pop up and start talking about how women should be adored and celebrated, and it’s, yeah. And sometimes I, I just, I’m very close to being nauseated, but that, that’s I, I think how to do that, I mean, obviously it would depend on what sort of person her boss is but whether I think it’s a useful thing to give feedback about that. Yes, I think so, because I, I do also feel very strongly that most of the time when people, when men say things that women find condescending or patronizing or offensive, most of the time men don’t actually even know that it’s offensive or why it’s offensive, you know?
I think maybe what I would say is to ask him what he means, you know, so we should celebrate and champion women. What does that mean? Does it mean that you, are you comfortable with having a woman be your superior? If women are to be celebrated and champion, there’s something about it that kind of suggests the power difference because, you know, you celebrate and champion people who are kind of beneath you in a way, or maybe that’s not how he means it, but I, but I would say ask him, you know, so just say to him, give me three examples of how, what you mean by championing women.
Laysha Ward:
Yeah. I love that you’re talking.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
And then if he, and if, and if he gave the examples, then she could then say, well, can you see how in this second example, it’s actually really condescending? Yeah, I think I’m a believe. Yeah. Sorry, go
Laysha Ward:
On. I’m just gonna say, I think you’re asking or suggesting rather that she asks clarifying questions. Assume positive intent and ask a clarifying question that really allow her boss to be more clear in what it is that he means by celebrating and championing women so that they can have a more honest and direct conversation.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
And to do it. And to start off, you know, start off assuming that he doesn’t mean harm. He might, and if he does, you will find out as the conversation progresses, . But, you know, just I think saying to him, and then again, I think, you know, this is why I believe so much in stories, and often I say to people, let’s go to story. So right, somebody says something and people start to argue, and I’m thinking, all right, let’s use examples. Let’s, let’s use a story. Because often it’s so much more clarifying. And so the examples that he gives her might make her see that actually he doesn’t really mean it in a way that’s condescending, or it might make her see that he’s so bloody patronizing. And then she can sort of call him out and say, you know what? This is just not okay. Yeah,
Laysha Ward:
Exactly. You know, it’s to, to your point, assume positive intent, and then you’ll be able to ascertain if it’s perhaps an unconscious bias or a conscious bias. But, but at least you’ll know where to begin the dialogue with better information. Great, great, great point. So thank you for that. Building on that, there’s a related question that another audience member submitted. She says, I support gender equality, but don’t call myself a feminist because it feels too much of a statement. How can I be a feminist without the negative labels? There’s a lot to unpack in that question, so I would be curious to hear what you would say.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Well, I would say to her, you’re a feminist. Own it, you know, own it. And when I started talking about feminism, I knew, of course that feminism is such a contested ward, especially in the West, where it has a long history. And, you know, feminists are often seen as, as you know, women who hate men or who don’t shave or that kind of thing. And, and, and for me, I, I then kind of had this need desire to kind of reclaim the ward that in the dictionary, it’s, it’s, it’s simple. It’s the belief that men and women should have equal political, social, economic rates. And if you believe that, then you’re a feminist. And, you know, sometimes I worry that women are often too careful. I mean, I suppose the question I would ask is, why is it too much of a statement?
I mean, what is it that you are afraid of? Yeah. you know, it’s easy to maybe think, I don’t want to alienate men by calling myself a feminist, because there’s some men who would be alienated by that. And I think to that, I would say a man who’s alienated by the idea of feminism is the kind of man you don’t want to be with. So, you know, own it. And, and the reason I think it’s also important is that we need a ward around which to rally. So if women are saying, I’m not a feminist, but I really believe in everything that feminism stands for, then we can’t even advocate for things because we cannot then say we’re, we have this word feminism, and these are the goals that that feminism has, and we want to pursue them. If we don’t have the language, if we don’t have the word to to describe something, then we can’t really advocate for that thing.
Laysha Ward:
I love this notion of claiming it and naming it and putting words around it in order to embrace it in a way that allows us ultimately to take steps towards fulfilling it. And so the way that you talk about and are framing a response around feminism is often how I think about racism, which for many is difficult to talk about as well. So really appreciate the way that you’ve helped us think about that. And I’m definitely gonna be thinking through how I use it and hope that our audience finds that equally as valuable. I appre appreciate the vulnerability in the next question from one of our audience members as well. And she says, my company has employee resource groups for women of color, people with disabilities, l GT q plus as a white woman, I wanna support my peers, but I don’t wanna do the wrong thing. What’s the best way to navigate this?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Who? I don’t know, . .
Laysha Ward:
Come on, girl. You can say something. You’ve, I know you’ve got something .
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
I think , see this is I really, actually really appreciate that question because I think it comes from a place of it comes from a place that I really admire and respect wanting to do better, wanting to do well, and, and saying I don’t know how. Right. Which I, it would be lovely if, if, if we all could do that. I think maybe the suggestion I would make would be to ask. So, so in other words, so I mean, I can’t really, I don’t think I can really talk with much I think I can talk about race with more sort of confidence because of personal experience, and I can talk about disability and and sexual orientation and, and gender identity and all of those things. So, so for me with race, if a, if a white woman says to me, I want to be supportive of anti-racism movements, and I don’t know how usually I say, well start by reading.
And I say that because I think it’s important to, to, to understand what it is that you are, you are advocating for, right? And when I say start by reading, I mean just understand what it, what it has meant and what it continues to mean to be a black person in the United States. And, and I think also sort of talk to black people. You, I have friends who are so well-meaning and so fierce, and they’re sometimes making arguments where I’m thinking, I’m the black person and I don’t even agree with you on this . Right? Like, I just think you’re wrong. Right? Right. But, but it’s well-meaning. And they’re just sort of like, yo, yo, we’re fighting racism. And I’m just sitting there thinking, mm. So, so yeah, I would say talk to black people. And it also is very useful to sort of step back in certain places and let black people speak.
There are times when I say that the white friend needs to say certain things. There are things that white people can get away with saying in this country that black people cannot. And so in those cases, I think if, if, so, I have a joke with a white friend of mine who sometimes we’re talking about race, and, and I say to her, well, all right, now you need to talk because these people will not listen to me. You need to talk now. You know, you need to use your white privilege for good. But there are other times when I think well meaning white people, that there is sometimes the risk of kind of usurping the conversation, taking it over, making it about sort of the white goodness. And I, I don’t think that’s a very useful thing. So, so I’m not sure, yeah, I’ve kind of rambled a bit, but I would say, you know, talk to people, talk to black people.
And also I would say learn like, and, and I don’t mean learn, you know, young people now say things like, go and educate yourself. And I don’t even know what they mean, but , but I can tell you what I mean by learning, which is read history. You know, I would say I could ma maybe recommend three books because I think it’s important to have context. And I even speak for myself because when I came to the us now almost, I don’t know, 25 years ago to go to college, I didn’t really understand race in America because I was Nigerian. And in Nigeria, we do not have race as an identity. Yes. Do it different. Yeah. And so I came from a place where my identity was IK and Catholic, so, you know, ethnicity and, and religion. And then I came here and suddenly I had this thing where I was the black girl.
Cause I was in Connecticut, which was, you know, not terribly black . And so I, I had to learn and I learned by reading, and then suddenly I understood things. So suddenly I understood, oh, so that’s what that what, what a Milan joke was about. And I understood, oh, so that’s why in certain contexts, fried chicken is offensive. I did not understand that first. And so that’s why I say it’s really important to read, you know, just really read before you go off, you know, sort of on the rallies to do the rah rah rah or fighting racism thing.
Laysha Ward:
Well, thank you for that. No, it, it requires building empathy and understanding and, and then knowing what to do with it, I think gets at your point around sometimes you need to be the messenger. And other times that isn’t the appropriate role for you to play. So, you know, to the question ask, you know, being a great ally, which is what she’s trying to be, is, is multi-layered and isn’t a one size fits all sort of journey. But, but educating oneself, building empathy, trying to sort of make understanding a part of your daily journey allows you, I think ultimately to apply what you’ve learned in ways that help us all figure out what our roles are in those conversations and in the actions that pursue as a result of it. I, I just think we can’t let our fear of saying or doing the wrong thing stop us from doing anything at all, which is often what happens.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Bravo, I think you’ve just, I just think that’s perfectly said. And, and you know, you said something about layered, and I, I, and I think it’s important also to be comfortable with the idea that it’s not going to be simple or it, it is layered, it is complex and, and we shouldn’t expect it to be otherwise, because how can you deal with I think for example, that having learned American history, that really the basis of this country is anti-black racism. I, I believe that, and I, and I can, I can make the case for it, right? And it’s such a complicated thing that’s so deeply rooted, so that in talking about it and trying to combat it, it cannot be easy. It’s not an easy thing. And so I really love this idea. And you put it so well, we shouldn’t be so terrified of saying the wrong thing that we don’t say anything at all, because it is likely that we will say the wrong thing. Yeah. But I think what, what’s pos what, what’s important is, you know, are we learning? Are we when we say that wrong thing and we ask questions, do we then, you know, hear what’s been said? And I think that the way that public sort of conversations happen now, people are so scared of, of saying the wrong thing, that they just stay silent. And it worries me that that real movements for change are now sort of almost being sabotaged by people’s fear. Yeah,
Laysha Ward:
I would, you shouldn’t be, I would agree with that. As we discussed earlier, sometimes there is a moment to be silent, but there are also times when we need to have our voices heard. And, you know, a situation we all face from time to time that you and I have just started to talk about has to do with missteps in our communication. So how do you recover when you say the wrong thing?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Well, by saying, sorry. Yeah.
Laysha Ward:
, yes. Amen to that. I think
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
That, I think, I think there’s such power in a genuine apology. But I also think that even the idea of apologies have become just, you know, people just think, you, you, there’s, there’s kind of a cynicism now where people just sort of say, oh, I’m a apologizing. But I mean, really genuine apology. But also I think when you, when I can speak for myself, for example when I’ve said things that I realize were wrong, , often I’ve realized because somebody has made me see that they’re wrong. And and by the way, I have to tell you, I’ve had to practice this because my, you know, you need to practice it, but there’s a kind of grace in saying thank you to the person who’s made you see that you were wrong. Right. which means a kind of willingness to accept that I don’t know everything, right?
I think I know a lot , but I don’t think I know everything. . and, and I think, you know, there’s a kind of again, it sometimes feels to me that in the end it’s about intent. Like what’s the point, right? I, I ask this a lot about many things. What’s the point of having conversations? What’s the point of talking about social justice? You know, I say to myself, what’s the point of talking about racism, feminism, homophobia, what’s the point? Right? And of course, the point is to contribute, to ending it, ending these things that we think are wrong. And if that is the case, then in having conversations, the intent is to get somebody to understand you and to be understood by that person. And so when I say something that I think is wrong, I, my thinking is, well, what’s the point?
So what I’ve said is getting in the way of achieving my point, right? Which means that I need to backtrack, you know, apologize, figure out what the real thing is, what the right thing is. And I think in general, we should maybe start by just, I mean, I, and this is the thing for me, being a fiction writer, I kind of I, I enjoy, I, I celebrate, I luxate in the fact that we are not perfect. Yes, yes. And we’re not, I mean, people who read a lot of fiction know this, we’re human, we’re not perfect. And so I think just starting with that as premise, it just feels to me that a lot will be better. When I teach fiction, I usually start by telling my students, we’re going to go around and you’re going to tell me two horrible things you’ve done. And then at some point, sometimes it gets really, you know, interesting. And then I say, all right, tell us two horrible things that a friend of yours has done if you don’t want to talk about yourself. But it’s really . It’s really about starting off with our flawed ness as premise.
Laysha Ward:
I like to say we are perfectly imperfect. And you know, I think it’s really important as we’ve been discussing to know and remember that we’re all human and make mistakes, but that we can learn from those mistakes. I think that certainly is the key takeaway. Thank you so much, Chimamandamanda. I could talk to you for hours.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Thank you, Laysha. You’ve been fantastic.
Laysha Ward:
Incredibly fortunate to have had this time with you, and I know that I’ve personally benefited from it and know that our community here has as well from your stories and your wisdom. And I hope that we have the opportunity to reconnect in the future. Cause it’s certainly been a gift.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Thank you, Laysha. Thank you. And I really do hope that we have a chance to, I hope our paths will cross
Laysha Ward:
Again. As do I, as do I. Take care.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Thank you. Take care.
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This episode highlights the resilience and courage of an extraordinary woman: Shoshana Johnson, the first Black female prisoner of war in U.S. military history and a Purple Heart recipient. Johnson has proven her strength in the face of adversity, and now she shares her experiences as an author and speaker.
In a heartfelt discussion with award-winning journalist and author Celeste Headlee, we delve into Shoshana’s journey of survival, her advocacy for veterans, and her efforts to support women in the military.
Read more: Lessons in Resilience and Recovery
Excerpt from I’m Still Standing: From Captive U.S. Soldier to Free Citizen – My Journey Home:“You will have the operation tomorrow”, the doctor said. “Do not eat until I come for you again for the surgery”, he instructed, and he left. I was nervous about having surgery, but my legs weren’t getting any better. After four days, I was still losing blood, still bleeding through the bandages, and my wounds looked raw and horrible.
Pain was my constant companion. I figured anything they could do to help the wounds would be better than doing nothing. I laid down that night not sure if I could sleep, nervous about the surgery. A couple of hours later, my cell door opened. The light from the hallway suddenly spilled into the small room, blinding me for several moments. The doctor, the nurse, and a guard were there. They stood me up and blindfolded me using a sleep mask. They didn’t bother tying my hands this time.
They shuffled me down the hall of the prison and I could hear them getting others out of their cell. I figured it was Hudson and Hernandez, the others who had been wounded. The doctor hadn’t told me we would all be going. But I was glad not to be the only one. They took us all outside, propping me up all the way. For a few brief moments, I was outside. The night air seemed crisp and refreshing after so much time in the confines of my cell.
After a couple of seconds, I smelled cordite from all the automatic gunfire I had been hearing and suddenly realized how close to the fighting we must have been. I smelled fire, stuff burning, and the general rot that comes from too many smells mixed together. They quickly hustled us into the back of a truck and we took off into the night. We all jostled around in the back as we careened through the streets, automatic weapons fire and the thump of small explosions going off all around us.
Occasionally I heard a high scream and then a sudden heavy boom. That could only mean a U.S. bomb. The Iraqis didn’t have stuff like that. It was impossible to figure out where it was coming from as we turned and swerved down the streets.
It was horrible being blindfolded, not knowing where we were going, not able to see where the firing was coming from. Much of it was close. I knew the driver was going fast as to avoid being a target. As nervous as I was about the surgery and about getting hit by some random bullet, it felt good to know that Americans were close. I rode in the truck silently rooting for my side to kick some righteous ass.
Shoshana JohnsonShoshana Nyree Johnson was born in the Republic of Panama. She attended the University of Texas at El Paso, and later joined the U.S. Army in 1998. In February 2003, Johnson received orders to deploy to Iraq as a Food Service Specialist, (92G) with the 507th Maintenance Company, 5/52 Battalion 11th Brigade. On March 23, Johnson was in a convoy that was ambushed in the city of an-Nasiriyah. Johnson received a bullet wound to her ankle. She and 5 others were captured and taken Prisoners of War. House raids conducted by U.S. Marines in the city of Samarra, Iraq, resulted in the successful rescue of seven POWs on April 13. Later, Johnson came back to a heroes welcome in the U.S. with a cheering crowd of over 3,000 people. Specialist Johnson retired from the Army on an Honorable Discharge on December 12, 2003. Johnson’s awards and decorations include the U.S. Army Service Ribbon, Army Commendation Ribbon, National Defense Ribbon, Good Conduct Medal, Bronze Star Medal, Purple Heart Medal, and the Prisoner of War Medal. U.S. Army officials identified Johnson as the first female POW of Operation Iraqi Freedom, and the first black female POW in US war history. Johnson was awarded the Order of Manuel Amador Guerrero by her native country of Panama, it’s the highest honor. Johnson has penned a memoir about her experience entitled I’m Still Standing: From Captured Soldier to Free Citizen-My Journey Home. The biography was nominated for a NAACP Image Award and is a national bestseller.
Celeste Headlee*Celeste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway* from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources Read I’m Still Standing: From Captive U.S. Soldier to Free Citizen — My Journey Homeby Shoshana Johnson * Sign up for the Women Amplified email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops. * Do you have a problem? Let’s solve it!* Tell us about your work/ life challenge here and you could be featured on an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question!”
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PROBLEM: How do I manage being a young woman in a director level role? I find that it can be challenging in getting folks to take me seriously. I run a department of three offices with multiple full-time staff and oversee a critical area of compliance. While I don’t want to completely change how I engage with others, or how I present myself, I’d like to know if there are things I can do differently to minimize this issue.
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Age bias impacts employees at all stages in their career — and research shows that it’s hitting young workers just as much as their older counterparts. Many younger employees find it challenging to get others to take them seriously.
Through active problem solving, practical advice and shared experiences, we will explore strategies to boost your presence, increase your influence, and communicate with confidence. Learn how to garner the respect you deserve while remaining your authentic self.
Susan PoserSusan Poser brings more than 25 years of experience in a variety of roles from marketing, finance, value selling, operations and program management. As VP of Culture & Engagement for Oracle’s North America Infrastructure Sales, Susan is responsible for developing and executing employee lifecycle programs including hiring and onboarding, to career growth and employee experiences, with the end result being attraction, retention and loyalty for the 5,000 person organization. Susan is an executive sponsor for Oracle Women Leaders in San Diego and Oracle Professional Asian Leaders, globally. In addition, Susan serves as the Board Chair for Athena, a non-profit business league focused on advancing one million women leading in STEM by 2030.
Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources Do you have a problem? Let’s solve it! Tell us about your work/ life challenge here and you could be featured on an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question!” * Sign up for the Women Amplified email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops. * Don’t miss the first-ever National Conference for Women!* Featuring Margaret Atwood, Michelle Yeoh, breakout sessions, networking, career services, and more. Registration for the virtual March 14th event is now open, and early bird pricing is in effect through November 11th. Learn more and register today.
Photo credit: iStock/ Ponomariova_Maria
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In today’s fast-paced world, time often feels like our scarcest resource.
UCLA Professor Cassie Holmes, author of the groundbreaking book Happier Hour, offers a revolutionary approach to reclaiming time by sharing research-backed strategies to turn every hour into a “happier hour.”
In this episode, discover how to allocate your time to bring true fulfillment, not just a sense of busyness.
Learn actionable steps to sidestep distractions, capture moments of joy and purposefully design your schedule. Holmes’s practical toolkit will empower you to view your life without regret, and to embrace a lifestyle where time becomes your alley, not your enemy.
Cassie HolmesCassie Holmes is an award-winning professor at the UCLA Anderson School of Management and an expert on time and happiness. Holmes’ research examines how focusing on time (rather than money) increases happiness, how the meaning of happiness changes over the course of one’s lifetime, and how much happiness people enjoy from extraordinary versus ordinary experiences. Holmes’ bestselling book Happier Hour: How to Beat Distraction, Expand Your Time, and Focus on What Matters Most is a bright, relatable guide to recharging and the ultimate antidote to overscheduling. Holmes’ research has been published in such top-tier academic journals as Psychological Science and the Journal of Consumer Research. Popular accounts of her work have been featured on NPR and appeared in The Economist, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times, Scientific American and the Boston Globe. Her research on “giving time” was featured in New York Times Magazine’s “32 Innovations that Will Change Your Tomorrow.” Poets & Quants called her one of the Best 40 Business Professors Under 40, and received the Early Career Award for her distinguished scholarly contributions to her field from both the Association of Consumer Research and the Society of Consumer Psychology. Holmes was a tenured faculty member and award-winning teacher at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. She has a PhD from Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business, and a BA from Columbia.
Celeste Headlee*Celeste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway* from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources Learn more about Cassie Holmes and her work at cassiemholmes.com * Do you have a problem? Let’s solve it! Tell us about your work/ life challenge here and you could be featured on an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question!” * Sign up for the Women Amplified* email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops.
Photo credit: iStock/ Rudzhan Nagiev
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Over the last several years, professionals have reprioritized what’s important and taken a different approach to their careers. But the process to figure out what’s right and how to make a strategic move can be daunting.
In this episode of That’s a Good Question, we help our listener navigate the transition from entrepreneur into a corporate career. Joining us to help is guest expert Leena Shah, global program leader of global drug development at Bristol Myers Squibb. Through active problem solving, practical advice and shared experiences, we will explore strategies to best approach a job search, identify the right role and ways to best communicate your value.
Walk away with clarity and be empowered to regain control so you can take a strategic approach for making your next move.
Leena Shah, Pharm. D.Leena Shah, Pharm. D., is global program leader, global drug development at Bristol Myers Squibb. Shah oversees a matrix team and develops and executes a strategic integrated development plan in partnership with cross-functional leaders for an immunology asset across multiple indications. In this role, Shah serves as an integrated, end-to-end leader from drug development to commercialization. Shah joined Bristol Myers Squibb in 2014 with extensive drug development experience, most having worked in leadership roles at Roche for over 13 years, across the drug development continuum including early & late research & development, medical affairs and business development. At Bristol Myers Squibb, she has led diverse, large teams across clinical operations, worldwide medical and commercialization, to develop strategies that informed and drove investment decisions. She is most notably recognized for her expertise in drug development, strategic thinking, innovative approaches, and inclusive leadership. Shah completed the Rutgers Post-Doctoral Fellowship Program in clinical research and earned her BS and Doctor of Pharmacy from Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey.
Celeste Headlee*Celeste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway* from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources Do you have a problem? Let’s solve it! Tell us about your work/ life challenge here and you could be featured on an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question!” * Sign up for the Women Amplified email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops. * Join Brené Brown, Dame Jacinda Ardern, Dr. Joy Boulamwini, Jennifer Siebel Newsom, and more in Santa Clara, CA!* Registration for the February 29 California Conference for Women is now open, and early bird pricing is in effect through October 15th. To learn more and get your tickets, visit CAConferenceForWomen.org.
Photo credit: iStock/ ozcan yalaz
The post Navigating a Job Search and Career Transition | That’s a Good Question appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
This episode features a conversation with Pearl Cleage, an American playwright, novelist and poet, and Laysha Ward, the executive vice president and chief external engagement officer at Target. Together they explore the power of truth, the responsibility of storytelling, and the praise poem, “We Speak Your Names,” which was commissioned by Oprah Winfrey in celebration […]
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THE PROBLEM: “I am the director of a non-profit where a significant portion of staff represents a younger generation. Workplace dynamics have been challenging for me as a leader, trying to manage employees who are not well-equipped with coping and resiliency skills. Additionally, there is a gap in their ability to manage multiple priorities simultaneously […]
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Many of us assume that the more successful we are, the less susceptible we’ll be to that sense of irrelevance that often comes with aging, both professionally and socially. But the truth is, the greater our achievements and our attachment to them, the more we notice our decline, and the more painful it is when […]
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The Women Amplified listener featured in this episode of “That’s a Good Question” is leading a remote business unit with ambitious goals, a steep climb ahead, and limited resources. She’s struggling with the tricky juggling act of keeping her team engaged — while avoiding the balance and burnout conundrum — and without compromising her hands-off leadership […]
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Today we hear from Mónica Guzmán, author of I Never Thought of It That Way: How To Have Fearlessly Curious Conversations in Dangerously Divided Times; and senior fellow for public practice at Braver Angels. Guzmán believes that by asking the right questions, we can regain lost connections with friends, family and colleagues across all political divides. In this […]
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Gail Devers is not a stranger to a challenge. The five-time Olympian, nine-time World Champion and three-time Olympic gold medalist in track and field was one of the fastest women alive for almost two decades. But the hurdles she faced off the track, battling Thyroid Eye Disease (TED) and Graves’ Disease, were just as daunting […]
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D-Nice is best known as a DJ having spun for President Obama during his inaugural ball – and as the creator of the phenomenon, Club Quarantine, a livestream dance party that lifted us up and brought joy to the masses during the height of the pandemic, when we needed it most.
In this episode, which is a replay of a conversation from the 2022 Pennsylvania Conference for Women, Target’s EVP and chief external engagement officer Laysha Ward talks with D-Nice about his career, reinvention, mental wellness, music and allyship. Together they explore his gift for creating community and ways you can do the same.
Our Guest: D-NiceD-Nice is not only a pillar of hip-hop but is continuing to steer pop culture with his journey taking him from the streets of Harlem all the way to The White House. The legendary artist, DJ, and photographer has moved millions on wax, on stage, and now online with his revolutionary virtual Club Quarantine. The latter paved the way for numerous Instagram Live series. More importantly, Club Quarantine raised millions for first responders, HBCU’s, and more. D-Nice’s global influence has been acknowledged time and again including the NAACP Image Awards naming him Entertainer Of The Year, TIME magazine nominating him for 2020 Person of the Year, and EBONY magazine including him on the 2021 Power 100 list. After spreading hope online, he is back to making records and rocking stages. D-Nice kicked off 2021 co-curating the Official Playlist of the Biden + Harris inauguration. Soon after, he performed at the official in-stadium Super Bowl LV pre-show. D-Nice continued the year taking his talent from his sold out Club Quarantine Live at the Hollywood Bowl to the iconic Met and Kennedy Center Honors Galas. After bringing in 2022 on Dick Clark’s New Year’s Rockin’ Eve, he opened at the NBA All-Star Game and helped provide the soundtrack for the 94th Academy Awards. Most recently, D-Nice headlined and co-produced a special sold out presentation of Club Quarantine Live at the legendary Carnegie Hall. D-Nice continues to innovate and inspire, leaving an indelible mark on the entertainment industry.
Guest Host: Laysha WardLaysha Ward is an accomplished C-suite executive with thirty years of leadership experience at Target. In 2017, Ward was named executive vice president, chief external engagement officer, overseeing Target’s enterprise-wide approach to engage and deepen relationships with cross-sector stakeholders to drive positive business and community impact. In 1991, Ward began her career with Target as a member of the store sales and management team of Marshall Fields in Chicago. In 2000, she was named director of community relations and promoted to vice president of community relations and Target Foundation in 2003. In 2008, President Bush nominated, and the U.S. Senate confirmed Ward would serve on the board of directors of the Corporation for National and Community Service, the nation’s largest grantmaker for volunteering and service, which she continued to serve as board chair under the Obama Administration. Later that year, she was promoted to president of community relations and the Target Foundation. She serves on the Aspen Institute Latinos and Society Advisory Board and the Stanford Center for Longevity Advisory Council, is a member of the Executive Leadership Council, the Economic Clubs of New York and Chicago, Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, The Links, and serves on the boards of Greater MSP, the Minnesota Orchestra, and the Northside Achievement Zone, as well as United Airlines and Denny’s Corporation for-profit board of directors. She received a bachelor’s degree from Indiana University, master’s degree from the University of Chicago, and an honorary Doctorate of Laws from the University of Minnesota’s Humphrey School of Public Affairs. She and her husband, Bill, reside in Minneapolis, MN.
Women Amplified Host: Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million views.
Additional Resources: Learn more about D-Nice on his website, or follow him on Instagram @dnice * Do you have a work/life problem? Let’s solve it! Tell us about your challenge here and you could be a guest on an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question!” * Sign up for the Women Amplified* email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops! * Join us as we welcome Tina Fey, Former New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, Olympic gold medalist Gail Devers, and more amazing women to the Pennsylvania Conference for Women this October 19th! Registration is now open and early bird pricing is in effect through May 20th. * Texans, save the date: 2023 Texas Conference for Women registration opens on Thursday, May 18th.
Episode TranscriptHello, Dee, welcome. It is such a gift to have this opportunity to hear your thoughts on a wide range of subjects. So are you ready to jump into our first question?
I’m so, I’m so ready to jump in, and thank you for having me here.
Ah, fantastic. Okay. You’ve had many successful careers over the years, and you are a master of reinvention, and with so many people thinking about reinventing themselves these days, what are some strategies that you’ve learned along the way?
Wow. Some of the strategies I’ve, I’ve applied along the way has been well, lemme, I, I I just have to take it back to a lesson that I learned back in like the early two thousands. You know, like when my first record came out, it was like 1986. I was 15 years old, and I was considered old school by the time I was like 23 years old,
And and at the same time, I, I still had this desire to make music. And one of my buddies at the time was a huge manager in the business by the name of Chris Lighty. And I went to him and I said, Hey, bro, like I, I really want to, I I want you to listen to this demo. And he looked at me, and, and he wasn’t, he wasn’t being negative in any way. He just gave me the best advice. And he said he was like, you know, that’s who you used to be. You know, don’t be afraid of like becoming who you’re supposed to be. Like, don’t be afraid to, to just open up to more than just trying to shop demos. You know, maybe that’s not what you’re supposed to do at that point. And part of me was a, a little broken because he didn’t listen to it.
But when I thought about it, it actually, it, you know, it gave me the strength and the courage to want to explore all aspects of creativity. So reinventing myself was probably the easiest thing to do after that. It was like, Hey, well, why not try this? You know? So I ended up becoming a photographer and I, I, you know, was featured photographer on America’s, America’s Next Top Model. You know, I ended up shooting campaigns for Nike and, and like I said, building big websites from Alicia Keys to Annie Lennox to Aaliyah to, you know, and and none of that happens without that type of conversation that I had with him.
Wow. That is such powerful advice to have the courage to open up to who you’re supposed to be incredibly inspiring. You know, let’s continue with the idea of reinvention a bit longer. Reinventing yourself, I think also takes believing in yourself. So how have you managed to believe in yourself, even when others didn’t believe in you?
Well, when you come from, when, you know, from like the inner city, you know, I grew up in the Bronx, and, and you know, even back then, I had to make a choice, you know, like I, I could have been a hustler in the streets, you know, like that’s not the check the path that I, that I chose. You know, like I always you know, it was a television show I used to watch, you know, back in the day with a gentleman by the name of Robin Leach. It was called The Lifestyles of the Rich
And Famous. I remember it, I remember that
Show, that show, and that show, that show actually plays played a lot into like, my personal development, because I watched that show and I was like, man, like, you know, when you grow up in the inner city, you know, you, you don’t find many, we didn’t have many shows that, you know, kind of inspired us to want to see the world. And I think because I had like this kind of like global vision, even as a young man because of a show like that where I wanted to see the world, it just made me want to tap into different things and to be unafraid, you know? And, you know, I mean, there are people in my family who had never left the Bronx or never left Manhattan, you know? But because of a show like that and because of music, I always wanted to see more. And the more that I was able to see, the more that I wanted to either do greater things or I wanted to, you know, I became a photographer, not because I wanted to, you know, sh you know, take pictures of other people. It was because I wanted to have something tangible to show my family and friends when I returned from, like, being on the road, you know? So like being unafraid and, and, and to reinvent yourself has always been like, extremely important to me, even like I said since I was a kid.
Oh, I love that. And I’m intrigued by the fact that you watched this show Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, and yet you likely often didn’t see people on that show who looked like you, and yet you still felt like you could be inspired by what you were seeing, and it still motivated you to open up a world of possibilities.
Well, one of the things about the show you know, not to make this just solely about that show, but one of the things about that experience was because I didn’t see people like me, it always made me challenge myself to want to be someone to say, no, I, I should be there. And even in terms of like DJing, like, you know you fast forward to where my career is now. Like, I didn’t see many DJs on the kind of level that I’m on right now. They’re a handful of them, but for the most part, there were non-African-American DJs that were kind of like leading the DJ culture globally, you know? But I wanted to, I always saw myself as one of tho one of those people, like, no, well, why shouldn’t I play that stage? You know? Like when people would try to put me in like a club, I’m like, no.
Well, why shouldn’t I be here? You know, why, what do you mean I can’t play Carnegie Hall? Or it’s something like that, you know? So I know that my, like, my career, I know ultimately with everything that I’ve been doing throughout this journey, my one goal was to al always be a source of inspiration for people that look like me, you know, to say, you, you can make it there too. You know? So whether it’s like selling out a bowl or Hollywood bowl or, or a Carnegie, like, we never saw that. And like, I will always wanted to be that person to say, Hey, you can be there too. And, and it’s always about, like, it’s never about, you know, excluding anyone. It is just about seeing someone like myself on that stage and, and bringing in just, just people globally from all over the world. And to, to be that person that’s making it happen right now is, I always saw that in myself. I’m glad I never gave up. I’m glad I stuck with my journey when people didn’t believe. I’m glad I believed in myself.
Ah, so inspiring. I’m super inspired hearing you share that story. And the words of motivation and encouragement for our community, those listening to this, who will be inspired to have a vision and work towards their dreams as well, by hearing your story is, is really impactful. You know, sometimes you have to bet on yourself before others bet on you. And ideally, we all have a collection of relationships, mentors, sponsors, and others who invest in our potential as well.
There was one thing that my tour manager said to me recently, we’re on the phone, and we were talking about an upcoming show that we’re working on, and I was like, Hey, look, if we get no sponsors, it’s okay. Like, I’ll, I’ll take care of it myself. Not that I’m like sitting on this huge, like, you know, pile of cash to just throw away. No, I just believe in myself, and I believe that, you know, the, the bigger picture is to, to inspire, you know, people, not even just to, I mean, you just thinking about the way I grew up listening to music, and I’m only using music because that’s where I am in my career right now. In the eighties, the reason why I know so much music is because in the eighties, you know, when you would watch like an M t v, you, we didn’t have like rap shows or there were no black shows on M T V. So whoever the popular black artists were, and we wanted to see people that looked like us, we had to watch every video to wait for a Run DMC video. Oh,
Yeah, that was me. I was watching all of those videos, for
Sure. Yes. So when I started DJing, and I remember being bored just playing one specific genre of music, and then one day I just, I threw on a Bette Midler record in the middle of a party, and, and it flowed with like, I mean, not a Jay-Z record, but whoever was hot at the time when I started playing, it just made sense to me, like to play music the way that I grew up listening to it, you know? And not to just say like, oh, I’m a hip hop dj. Like, no, I’m an artist. I love all genres of music, and you should be able to blend these records together. And luckily for me, unfortunately, for me, rather, I was able to do it and, and do it in such a great way through multiple phases of my career. You know, it just so happened, like the CQ phase kind of like opened the world up because what I’m doing right now, I was already doing for like the last 15 years, but I was doing it more on the private event side, you know, whether it was the inaugural balls or Super Bowl, or the Oscars, I was very, it was very kind of like a elite crowd.
And to now be able to play the way that I do for everyone is such a freeing feeling. And it feels, it just, it, it just feels like inspiration, you know, to be able to like show people how, or, you know, the music, the way I listened to it growing up. So it’s like one of my best one, one of my favorite experiences in life.
Oh, I love that. You know, you started to talk about cq that you’ve been doing it in many ways for a long time. And so I thought maybe we’d pivot a bit and, you know, talk about that portion of your life and career. You know, the pandemic happened in 2020 and much of the world stopped, but you didn’t, right? You took the isolation and the uncertainty that came in those early days of the lockdown, and you created club quarantine, right? This virtual music and dance party on Instagram, and it turned into an overnight sensation, right? Like with notables such as Rihanna and Carrie Washington and others popping up to jam with you myself included. So I’m curious, what sparked the idea of club quarantine, which you called cq, which I love, and how did you bring that to life?
So, so the idea of club quarantine, which initially it was called Homeschool.
Oh, really? What? So, so let’s stop there for a second. It was originally called Homeschool called. Tell me a bit about that. Tell me a bit about that.
So what ended up happening was, it’s so funny how, how life works, man, like 2019, I had a fantastic year, you know, in terms of like DJing and, and you know, I, I had opened up for Jill Scott in Philly and
Love her. Love Jill Scott. Love
Jill Scott. Yes. And it was the, the experience of opening up for her was great. Now, I’ve played many shows for everyone. You know, I’ve toured, I’ve done everything from Mary to, to Kid Rock to Puff, like I’ve toured everyone. But it was something about 2019 that, you know, you know, I mean, obviously ageism exists in this world, you know, I, I, I knew that I was turning 50 in 2020, and I was like, man, like, I don’t know how much long I really want to do this. And when I opened for Jill, I, I remember this having this feeling of, I want to do this for one more year, and I, and then I’m done. But I want to do it in the way of like, becoming someone’s opening act. So the goal was to be Jill’s opening act, and I, and I received a call from, from one of the promoters of the her tour, and they presented me with this deal, 10 Cities with Jill for 2020.
And I was excited. We played one show, we played Radio City Music Hall, it was beautiful. I was like, yes, this is the, this is my year of like, I’m going to do this run and obviously do my other gigs, and I’m gonna phase this part of my life out. Then I’m gonna move in, move into like movie production. Like, that was the only reason why I was in LA was because I wanted to move into like, film and television production. That’s it. Two weeks later, the world shut down, and I was at home. I was by myself, no family out here. Everyone was quarantined with their families. And I was, I was extremely frustrated, you know, like, wow, like, I can’t get to my kids. You, we couldn’t fly out. And the only thing that I knew how, that I love was to play music. And when I woke up that morning, you know, this, I just had this feeling where I wanted to play music for people. I’d never used Instagram Live. I’d used Facebook Live, and I was, you know, never used IG Live. You
Hadn’t used IC Live before this moment. That was, this was your, this was your test, this
Was your test. This was like, oh, let me, because I knew you couldn’t play, you know, music on social media, you know, because of copyright issues. But I just decided like, Hey, I’m gonna call it homeschool. And I, I knew you can play like, snippets of songs. So I was like, Hey, I’m gonna play some snippets of like, music that I’d either produced back in the day, or certain songs that reminded me of a feeling, or of a club that I went to, went into when I was younger. And I would tell the story, that’s why it was called Homeschool. I would just tell the story. And I remember at the end of that first session, you know, had roughly like 200, 200, 280 people in there. And my attorney called, and she was like, man, everyone’s calling me about this. Like, I think you got something cool.
And I was like, I’m good. Like you know? And when I got up the next day, once again, it’s about serving people. I knew what I was feeling, and I, I was like, how do I, how do I continue giving people some love? And I, and one of my buddies went live at the same time John Legend, and I, and I, you know, we were all figuring this out at the same time. And I hit him up and, and asked him if he would go live with me, because that was a new part. That was a new feature. No one was really going live with each other. And John agreed, big Daddy Kane agreed, Al be sure, agreed. And it was like this, we are just k trying to keep 280 people happy.
Amazing, amazing.
Once we did that, amazing. Yeah, it was, it was great. It was great. Once we went live and, and we did it you know, I went live with a couple of them, but when I went live with John Legend, that was the moment that I realized like, wow, like, people are really into what’s happening. And I just, throughout the rest of that week, I wanted to do something that was going to inspire this group. I didn’t think the group was gonna continue to grow. I was just calling friends, you know, like, so I was calling like Michelle Obama’s assistant. I was calling everyone. I was like, there’s this, it was kind of a weird experience. I was like, man, there’s this, there’s, you know, I was like, this is gonna sound weird, but I have this party
Oh, that’s great. So you, you had a network that you used to make a, a pitch and begin to build the community and, and just continue to grow and expand. So how did it pivot from the initial concept into CQ Club quarantine?
So, the thing about it was like, even when you said earlier about, you know, like, kind of like overnight sensation, I wouldn’t say that the, the reason why the people were in there, it was a, it was, it was more so about decades of, of being of service to people. You know, like I played, I’ve played events for everyone, whether it was the Clintons to, but it was mainly like these private events that I’d done throughout, you know, you know, the last 15 years, 20 years of my career. So Rihanna was in there because she was familiar with me, obviously, because I played events with her, you know, or Beyonce or whomever. Like, I’ve done events with people, and when you’re kind to people when you need them, they want to be there for
You. That’s a great lesson right there, right? Let, let’s just sit in that lesson. Like, when you’re kind to people, they’ll continue to be there for you. Like, that is brilliant.
So that to me is the biggest, the most beautiful part of the journey is that you could look, you know, when you look at this, this long career that I’ve had, it was seeing everyone from an old school artist that I’d worked with back in like the late eighties to, to Drake, you know, who I opened up for at like the Super Bowl event. You know, like to see like three decades of like, relationships come during a time when the world was dark, and to inspire people was beautiful. So it’s definitely not overnight. It’s definitely, you know, took some time to nurture these relationships.
You’ve paid your dues and you’ve built these great relationships that have continued to pay dividends. And, you know, I really also believe in the healing power of music and the way that it brings people together and creates community. And you once said in an interview that we can change the world with music when people were really struggling to feel connected, and you created this incredible experience. I think in many ways it helped many of us navigate mental health challenges as well. So what role did music play in helping you unite a socially isolated world?
So, I won’t say it was just music. It was music and also the power of social media. You know, if we didn’t have as much flack as like, you know, these social media apps get, because obviously people are trying to show the best part of their lives, but if we didn’t have, like, these apps, we, and, and by the way, I’m, I’m not being an advocate for like, social media apps. I’m saying what the reality is, and what I’ve seen, if we didn’t have these apps, I would not have been able to directly like pipe this kind of music that I felt directly into someone’s home, you know? So it was about using the tools and the resources that we had about using them the right way. You know, like the music, even the music that I curated, the music was actually secondary to the conversation that the conversations that were happening in the chat, oh,
I love that. And people weren’t
Just there. The
Flow, the flow of the conversations during CQ was just so dope. And I, again, participated in so many of them, and I just love seeing the community that was being built, the stories that were being shared, and the way that you engaged, quite frankly, too, welcoming us into the conversation was, was really beautiful.
If we, if we weren’t able to connect that way during this time, I, I really believe that you know, depression would’ve been extremely higher. I mean, depression was high anyway, because of what we were experiencing. I think suicide rates would’ve been higher, you know, for a lot of people and for a lot of women or, or even men in abusive relationships that time in that, not just to say my particular cq live, but, but like, you know, you know, just kind of like, you know, apps or shows or whatever like that, those types of communities that were being formed during such a dark time, truly save lives. You know, people just imagine like, a lot of people were home for the first time. You know, when you, when you’re, you have a family, you know, you work a nine to five, the kids are in school, you come home after work, cook dinner, you, you’re spending two hours with your family, everyone’s off the bed, wake up, repeat that every day. Now, in the pandemic, people were stuck at home, you know, with 24 7, right? 24 7, 24 7 with sometimes people that you really didn’t know, you know? And that
Was my husband and I, by the way, both of us historically had traveled every week for our careers, and all of a sudden we found ourselves together seven days a week you know, 365. It was quite a journey, quite frankly, to reconnect. It was a blessing ultimately. But we were in that position. And, and again, club quarantine among other things, was a part of what we used as well, to connect with each other and to connect with a broader community. And I, I also couldn’t agree more with your point around kind of mental health and the role that not only music, but some of these other you know, channels played and bringing us together. So I, I, I’d love to kind of build on that and ask you, how is music or perhaps, you know, some of the other kind of ex creative expressions that you talked about helped you work through the challenges that you’ve experienced, whether that was pre pandemic or during the pandemic?
So, o one, it it, you know, remember early in the conversation I mentioned that I, I was trying to figure out ways to phase that part of my life out, because I had done it for so long that it, it, it just started to become routine, or it was, it had already become routine. And I was like, all right, I need new challenges because I’m, I was tired of playing the same songs. You know, when you go into a club or you, you know, people who typically want to hear whatever the, or you think that they just want to hear whatever the hot songs are, what, what club quarantine and that virtual experience did for me was allowed me to fall in love with music all over again and all music, and not just like, not just r and b or hip hop, not just rock and roll, but just all music, you know, like this virtual space was, was responsible for like, kind of like rein, invigorating, like careers.
You know, there are a lot of old school artists that weren’t doing shows, and like now people, you hear these songs that I, that I played, which I didn’t play just because they were old school songs. And, and, you know, I played those, that particular style because the music was touching the soul. You know, like a lot of music that’s created nowadays is so kind of like, y you know, there’s no soul to it. And not, not to be disrespectful to anyone’s art in, in their craft, but there’s a big difference between playing a new record and then playing like a Bowie record, you know, to play a fame and the feeling that you get from it, or to play a Stevie Wonder record, you know, to, to, to play a Tina Marie record and, and blend that in. See,
Now, now, now you’re speaking to me, Tina Marie, fire and Desire with Little Rick James. Rick
James, yes. Those, those songs, when you listen to them, not just because they’re nostalgic, but like the spirit of the records is something that you would want to dance with your families, you know, with, and, and you know, not everyone can dance to trap music all day when you’re feeling depressed, that that music is not gonna uplift your soul. Now, when you’re in a party and you getting lit, and you wanna have some fun, like those records feel good, but when you’re at home and you were facing, you know, your bills were due, and you didn’t know how were you gonna pay them, the last thing you wanted to do was hear a record about someone saying how much they’re jumping on private planes and going here. That’s, that’s not moving your spirit. You know, like when you, when you were at, when we were all at home and we were listening to, you know, a sister slash thinking of you, or we were listening to these songs, those songs reminded us of, of what love and community was supposed to feel like and what it felt like back then.
You know? And those songs were, especially for like African American people, you know, when you listen to, you know, the, the Stevie Wonder records where, which were made not too long after, like the civil rights era. It was like those songs kind of like brought us together and reminded us of what our community was supposed to look and feel like. And then here we are, you know, decades later, and you know, people, some people have gotten over that time. When you started to listen to those music, to that type of music again, when the world stopped and we were all trying to figure out what to do and celebrate love, the only thing you could do was go back to those records, you know, and to go back to the feeling and the spirit of those records. And there were some new records that were made recently that had that spirit, whether it was the Bruno Mars skate record, you know silk Sonic record or whatever. Like, those records felt good. But when you really listen to the lyrics and the spirit of those songs from like the seventies and eighties, those are the songs that we actually needed, right?
During
That time,
They spoke to us, right? It was the words, the stories, the messages, and to the point you made earlier, how they made you feel. And for me, music has been a way to channel a variety of things, right? Joy and struggle, hope and progress. And, you know, I think in fact, club quarantine became this cultural movement that really allowed many of us to channel our emotions and to get something that we needed from those songs that you were sharing and, and for many reintroducing to us at a time when we needed it most.
And, and I too got something out of it, you know, like I was sitting there alone, you know, I was quarantined alone for months, you know, like, I wasn’t leaving, especially when you have friends that are, that are in the industry, you know? You know, not to name Drop, but I’m gonna name drop this one person because the conversations were funny because she was so serious about this. And it was Naomi Campbell, like, she would call me or send me a text every day, like, don’t open your door. If someone brings a package, make sure you spray it down, because we didn’t know what was happening. She was like, make sure you spray it down and leave it out there for a day. Eat something. I had never felt so much love, like I did during the quarantine from people, not even just like my friends in the industry, but just from people.
And that love is still happening when I walk down the street now. You know? Like it’s, you know, people felt like that that time was so important to them, and the music and the community that was built, that all they do is show gratitude. And, and I show gratitude as well, because it reminded me of, of who I am. Like I, I, I’ve always wanted to just be in a position to share with people. And when the world stopped, I was able to share my love of music, but only because they also poured into me. So the same amount of love, which is why I would go on for 19 hours and play music. I did it because people were pouring into me as well. And, and also because I love the music. Mm-Hmm.
So, so that’s something that I’m actually struggling with with now. And, and it’s because I, my love of music and my love of community and, and my love of just being creative because of that, I can’t stop. It’s like, I will, will play music all day, or I, you know, I’ll take pictures. I, my camera’s right over here. Like, I can’t, I can’t stop being creative and wanting to share, like, experiences with people. Sometimes. It’s unfortunate that now that the world has reopened, people are kind of reverting back into their old ways, you know? Like, you know, like crime is up a little bit more, you know, people feel desperate. People forgot about the love that they were sharing with each other when the world, when the world stopped, you know? I mean, people complain about me being on Instagram live playing music. Like, oh, the world is open.
Why are you still doing that? And I, I go on, because it’s like, I just wanna continue sharing love with people. Like now I could go do my live shows and earn a check and go back home and be happy, but that’s, to me, that’s not enough. You know? Like, I want to continue doing things that will still inspire people to try to do right by each other. No, I love that. You know, like the, I love that, love. The, the, the easiest thing to do is to be kind to someone that’s easy, is to just be kind, you know, like, so if I could go home and, and I’ll sign on Instagram, and at the end of my set there’s a hundred thousand people that came in and listened to music, that’s, that’s a hundred thousand people that were still in need of whatever that community was sharing with them. And I happily like, will continue to do that for, for people, you know, I, I personally don’t want to go back into the way life was, you know, I kind of like this, this hybrid version of life, you know, whether it’s in real life or whether it’s touching people through, through these apps or, you know, virtually. I want to continue doing that. You know, I think that that’s my part that I, I should continue doing to inspire people. Well,
And we’re grateful for that. I’m grateful for that. And I still tune in, right? Like, this idea that hybrid is the new normal is something that I couldn’t agree with more, right? There’s this opportunity to be in person, but to still have these digital or social channels and to be able to leverage all of those tools to build connection in community is so important. And, and we’ve seen through your work, like cq, it’s a movement, and it was a movement with results is a movement with results. And so I’d love for you to also talk about how you were able to kind of use that platform to drive change and build awareness and to create a safe space for the black community, certainly, but for others as well.
Yeah. You know, so with, with with, with cq, with Club Quarantine when, when I started doing, doing it in the beginning that first week, and I noticed how many people were coming, I, you know, there were opportunities where I could have monetized it, and I, and I didn’t have to go on as much as I did. I could have done this every week. I could have switched to another platform and being able to charge people to come and listen, but I didn’t think that that’s what my purpose was. My purpose was to be, you know, just this source of inspiration for people and for them to be able to find kind of this safe space with music as, as your background while you were able to communicate with your friends, you know, and your family remotely. You know, because of that, I just decided that I was gonna use the platform to do, to do some good for people and for myself, because mentally I needed it too.
You know, like I said, I was home alone and I felt the love, and I would read the comments while they were flooring, and while I was selecting songs and shouting people out, it made me feel like I was really there with them. You know, there are people that I’ve met recently where I’m like, wait, I’ve actually never met you in person. I only know you because of social media. As a matter of fact, I only know your screen name. I don’t even know your real name,
And yet you still felt connected to them, right? Like you felt like I still,
Like
You started a relationship, started a
Relationship, I mean, in, in a very, I don’t wanna say a strange way, but in this beautiful way. Like we used that time to actually get to know each other and not care about what we were wearing. We didn’t care about what kind of car you were driving, you know, we didn’t care if you were sitting in first class or in coach, it didn’t matter. All of that was stripped down.
It’s sort of democratized. It democratized the experience. It was come as you are Absolutely. And get what you need and get what
You need. Absolutely. And, and, and because of like that, I, I decided to use the platform to do some good and, and you know, so, you know, with Michelle Obama, like when she came in, you know, when I had to explain to her assistant, her assistant what it was, and then when Michelle finally came and saw all of these people, she was like, we should use this as a vehicle to get people registered to vote. So I, I did multiple couch parties with Michelle. We had parties, you know, and invited people in. You know, I raised money for HBCUs. I raised money, you know, I mean, will Smith and I raised money for, for the CDC foundation, not for the cdc, but for the foundation to, to, to, because we didn’t know what was going on. So we wanted to do things that were raising money for people.
We ra we raised so much money. I mean, for the Apollo Theater, they, you know, these, these venues really operate on, you know, money from people donating, people weren’t making money so they couldn’t donate properly or couldn’t get to the venue. So we raised, you know, I think I may have raised like $300,000 for the Apollo. You know, there was a, a young girl who I think she was like 10 years old. She was dying of cancer, you know, I went online and raised like a hundred thousand dollars for her. You know, unfortunately she ended up transitioning. But like, it
Was, it was still a beautiful, beautiful gift that you were giving your time, your service, your platform, and you’re creating these parties with a purpose that we’re doing incredibly good things in the world. I, I, I love your commitment to making a difference, you know, how we lead matters, how we use our platform matters. And you have been, I think, just a tremendous role model. So thank you for that.
Oh, thank you.
Okay. Let’s shift gears a little bit, if that’s okay?
Absolutely.
And talk about your life outside of work. You were born in Harlem, and you came of age as the child of a single mom. So can you just share a little bit about your early childhood and some of the important lessons you learned growing up?
Oh, man. So I, I was born in Harlem. I spent like, my formative years in the Bronx, you know you know, from the time I was like, say like eight to to 15 when I first dropped my record. So I lived in the Bronx then I wasn’t raised by my mother. I was actually raised by multiple family members. My mom is still alive. My mom is here living in LA with me, and she’s a beautiful woman. But my mom had me at a very young age, you know, my mom was like 17, turning 18 years old. So like, I think an important lesson that, that I’ve learned throughout my life was, put it this way, I used to look at my mom, you know, like, man, how could, how could a parent, you know, allow a kid to live with someone else?
And then it wasn’t until I had a daughter and she was 16 and 17, and I was looking at my own daughter, I was like, man, there’s no way she could have raised a child. So the best thing that ever happened to me was to be able to live with other people, to have other experiences. And and I always think about like, how many of my friends, like, especially in like in in our, in African American communities who, you know, you see your kid climbing a tree, you’re like, get down off of that tree. Don’t, don’t, why are you jumping from there? I never had that, you know? So I, I was able to jump from the tree. I was able to fall, scrape my legs and do everything, because I had no one telling me to get off of that. And I think that that was an important lesson in terms of like confidence, where I’m like, no, I want to go.
If I, I’ve always felt like if I’m, if I’m able to walk and I’m able to get up and communicate, and there’s something that I want to do, I should be able to do it. You know, I should, I should be unafraid of doing that, you know? And, and, and that’s how I live my life. But it’s also based on those experiences as a parent, I never told my kids not to do these things. As a matter of fact, I actually encourage them to, to, you know, have, have, have these experiences in life. Nothing too crazy, you know, still be, you know, respectful and don’t need too out of control. But like, no, I’m, you know, if you want to do that, just explain to me why, you know, like, I remember like my daughter, you know, and by the way, you know, like growing up, I, my father wasn’t there either.
So like, becoming a parent was something that I had to learn on, you know, on, on my own or from like watching my friends become parents. And, and you know, I remember my daughter, she was like five years old. I was still trying to figure out the next phase of, of reinvention. This was after, after people stopped clapping when I was rapping. Like, oh, you know, how am I gonna take care of my kids? And I remember her going into like this this neighborhood, the neighborhood daycare, you know, it was like someone who had like a, a daycare in their house, you know, it’s like an older woman. And I remember walking in there and, and the kids were watching Judge Joe Brown. And I was, I was upset. I was like, why are they watching this? This is not appropriate for like five year olds. And when we left this daycare, my daughter kept saying, I wanna be a lawyer. I wanna be a lawyer. And she said that until she actually became an attorney. Wow.
Wow.
In
Fact, fact, she recently became an attorney, right?
Attorney, yeah. She’s an attorney. Yes. She’s an attorney in New York State, and she’s about to take the, the, the California bar. And, and I, I could have potentially stopped her journey, you know what I mean? Like, by removing her from that place. And I didn’t, you know, like I could have stopped that, that that journey that she was on. And, you know, it reminded me of my own life that I didn’t, even though I did have people that took care of me, but no one interfered with like, my, my personal progress, you know? And, and, and not to say that everyone should live a life like that. It’s, it wasn’t an easy life, but it’s a life that I’m proud of, you know, that I came from these very, very humble beginnings to being someone that inspired change in the world. And that is a beautiful feeling that you should never count anyone out, no matter where they live, where they’re from, no matter how old they are. You shouldn’t count anyone out.
N and that is a fabulous drop the mic verse. So thank you for that. And thank you for, I think the lesson and the conversation about the importance of family. No matter what shape it comes in, right? There’s the family you’re born into, the family you make, but it’s about how we’re getting better together and supporting our growth and our learning journey that that matters most. You know, I you’ve said that being a father is the kind of, you know, quintessential role, the most important role that you’ve had in your life, and I think that’s incredibly inspiring. So if we can kind of continue on that conversation about fatherhood, tell us a bit what it’s like to not only be a father, but a girl dad, because you have girls.
Yeah, so I have, I have two daughters. They, they are, you know, every parent’s gonna say, oh, I have two amazing kids. But no, I really do have two amazing kids. You know, like, I’m, I’m the best of friends with my, my oldest daughter. You know, we talk a lot. We talk about life and we talk about work, and we, we’ve also just had many conversations about this journey and my personal journey, and we’ve worked things out together. You know, you know, I, my relationship with my own mother is better because of the relationship that I have with my kids, because I, I, I understand what parenting is like, you know, and, and, you know, in, in trying to find ways to even better the relationship that I have with my mom, that’s what, that’s, that’s the’s a
Powerful connection, right? Through
Her journey
As father, father, it’s strengthened your relationship and connection to your mother is, so, unpack that a bit. How, how do the, the two of you, you and your mom, talk about your evolving relationship as a result of your role as a father?
So for, for me, it’s like when you think about the resources that I personally have, like that I’ve had growing up, my mother didn’t have those resources. You know, growing up in, you know, the fifties, late fifties, the sixties, and the seventies when like segregation was there, you know, racism was extremely high. You know, a lot of those kids from that time, you know, they weren’t being bused to the proper schools or whatever, you know, like, so my mother’s journey was totally different than mine. When I look at the relationship that I have with my own kids, they’re gen, they’re, their journey is way different. And they have the resources I was able to, and not just me, like even, you know, mom was able to provide these great opportunities and experiences for our kids that our parents didn’t have. You know? So because of that, it’s like I’m able to like, see the beauty in how my mother grew up and how I grew up, and how my kids grew up.
It’s been like this constant evolution of like, the goal should be you know, generational wealth and in creating these opportunities for our kids. My mother didn’t have that tho those opportunities. She gave me the best that she could. Then I was able to create, and now I’m able to provide more experiences for my kids. But when I look at my kids, I’m so inspired by them because I can’t believe that I can have a conversation with like an 11 year old about finances. You know, my kid came to me like, Hey, dad, you know, there’s a, a green light card that’s out. You know, I wanna learn about investing. And because she’s learning that in school and from other kids, and now we are, we’re having a, we are having conversations about investing. I never had those types of conversations,
Right? Neither did I trust,
I trust me, you know, and she’s 11. And then I’m like, wow, this is, this is beautiful. To be able to provide those experiences for my kids. And hopefully we can continue to do that, and our families and other families can continue. And, and I think, you know, it will make this world better.
Absolutely. You know? Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, you’ve, you’ve, you’ve talked about the importance of patience as a parent and ensuring that fun and education are at the heart of your parenting. And when I hear you share these stories that your 11 year old is able to talk to you about finance I think the principles that you’re applying are, are definitely working
Hats, hats off to the, to the family. I can’t say it’s, it’s just on me, but to the family, you know, like, none of this is possible without being surrounded by people that, that believe in you, even when they don’t understand it. You know, like, look, I’m, I’m divorced, you know, mom could have definitely been harder on me when I was making no money when there was nothing coming in, but, but she wasn’t, you know, and, and they, they’ve supported like, you know, along this entire journey. You know, like my journey in the nineties is way different than what I’m experiencing right now in the nineties for 10 years. You know, I had nothing, not even a bank account until the late nineties, you know? So to be able to go from being this kid in the hood, having some success, losing everything, but still having fame, which is the hardest thing for any artist to have fame, but then you have no resources, but people know you, but you have nothing, then now you’re dealing with ego, and every decision that you make is based on ego. Some are good and some are bad, you know, like, so to be able to like, get through that storm and get to a period where I just let go of all of what I thought I was supposed to be so I can become this person is the, it is a beautiful journey. And I wouldn’t change that for anything. Oh, I, I, so I share these stories with my kids.
I love how vulnerable you are. Vulnerable you are in sharing the life and leadership learning journey that you’ve been on. And, and I’m curious, de have there been influential people in your life, mentors, sponsors, like, who has helped you along this incredible journey that you’ve been sharing with us and that you’re still on? Quite frankly,
There’s like no one, one person. It’s really just people. It’s people. It’s conversations with people. And sometimes you could have like you know, you can have a conversation with someone. And, and that conversation can totally change your outlook on life. You know, for, for instance the gentleman, Chris Lighty, I would not have become a photographer, actually, I wouldn’t have become a DJ had it not been for something that he did. Quick story, I was building a website for them, for his company. It was called Violator Management. And Violator had a deal with Reebok, with 50 cent in a G shoe. So they brought me in and my small company, my company was, well, it was a boutique company. I don’t wanna call it small. It was a boutique company that I started like to develop websites and do online marketing. And they brought me into to assist in the online marketing of the G issue.
And I was sitting in this meeting with Paul Fryman, who started Reebok. He was the CEO and a, a guy named Q Gatson, who is the, the liaison between Alan Iverson and Reebok. When Aal, when Alan had his deal a gentleman by the name of Steve Stout, like, I’m in this room with all of these like, major people, but I’m only in there because Chris Lighty pulled me into it because he believed in me. And by the time we got to the, the last person that I was, that I was being introduced to, the guy just stood in front of me. He didn’t say anything to me. And I stood up and I was like, Hey, I’m Derek Jones. And everyone laughed because they were all in on the joke. And you know, he, he introduced himself. He said, Hey, you know, I tell this story all the time when I, you know, and his name is Todd k Crike.
And Todd was like, Hey, I went to Boston U and I wrote my, my thesis on a song from your first album. Oh, wow. And, and that conversation was so important to me because I had spent so many years running away from who I was, you know, running away from what I had built in, in the late eighties because of ego, because I’d lost everything. I had to start all over, you know, I wasn’t in the club scene, I wasn’t, but that one conversation with someone who was so high up at Reebok, he was the senior vice president, I think he’s still there. He made me feel seen, he made me feel appreciated. That changed everything for me. That made me want to get back into music in some capacity. And I started to, I tried to throw after work parties and I couldn’t find a dj, so I couldn’t find a DJ that I like. Ah. So I ended up playing music myself.
So you became the dj, dj, so you
Became the, you created music. Yeah. So that thrill, that part of my life, that conversation sparked everything else that I ended up doing, only because someone, someone made me feel seen. So when you fast forward to a club, quarantine, when, when, when, when everyone was dark and everyone was at home alone, the reason why I shouted people out was because I just wanted them to feel like they were being seen. You know, because that’s the way that that guy made me feel. And that’s the way that everybody that listened to my old school, mu old school music, made me feel like this thing that I’m going through right now, there are multiple generations of fans that I have, right? Or, or just people that appreciate what I do. The younger ones have no idea about my old school history. They’re just like, yo, this guy’s everywhere.
He’s cool. But the people that listen to my music that grew up listening to the music when I was a rap artist, the sense of pride that they feel is so great because they see like someone from their generation, someone from from their age group is still out here doing what he loves, and they feel proud and they feel seen. So that’s why I, I shout out people when I’m, whenever I’m online and, you know, I try to shake as many hands as I can because I want people to feel that same kind of love that Todd Krinsky made me feel,
Oh, what a wonderful tribute. And a way to pay it forward, quite frankly, what was poured into you, you’re pouring back into so many others and making sure that they feel seen and heard, valued and respected is an enormous gift that I know many feel through cq, through club quarantine and, and the various other venues and forums that you’ve created and opened up. And so I, I’m really honored that you’re sharing all of these details, all these nuggets of wisdom cuz it’s going to inspire so many in the Conference for Women community. And, and our audience is primarily women and girls. And you are absolutely an ally for women and girls and always have been, not, not just for your daughters, but for all women and girls. And, and I really would, would love to hear you share why is being a male ally important to you? You just seem to do it naturally. But what’s behind that?
You know, I was, I was talking to a buddy about that, and it was like trying to find the right answer. Like, well, why, why do I do it? You know? And growing up, you know, just, you know, just being transparent. Growing up, I didn’t grow up with my father in the household. I was in a household with all women, whether it was my great-grandmother or my cousin who’s seven years older than me. You know, she, she had a kid at 17, but she was also taking care of me and our grandmother. You know, like, to see like the strength that she had to be able to do that at such a young age, you know, was so impressive. And it wasn’t impressive to me back then. It wasn’t until I became older and I started to think about like, how old we really were back then, you know, where a 17 year old, 18 year old young girl had to take care of her grandmother.
You know, like the strength of women is, is so important and so powerful. So in, in every phase of my career, I’ve always been surrounded by women that, that really took care of me. So my first record deal was given to me by woman. You know, the, my ars were women, you know. And you know, fast forward to like where my life is right now, you know, outside of like my buddy Jeff, my advisor Jeff. But other than that, it’s all women around me. You know, my, my attorneys’ woman, you know, my tour manager’s, a woman who like every in in, you have talented, strong,
Creative, creative, too strong I women surrounding you still, you
Still still to this day. And it’s not something that I intentionally went out to do. It’s just naturally how it happens. And, you know, the conversations, the, the love and the nurturing that I get from, from, you know, women that have been in my life throughout this journey has been so powerful. You know? And now as a, as a dad of like two daughters, I wanna make sure that they have these same opportunities to, to be great. Not only for themselves, but for other people, you know? So in, in, even when, when my, with my platform, you know, it was important for me to allow women to take over my platform, you know, during, during the pandemic. You know, it’s important for me to, you know, when I played, when I played the, the Academy Awards and I played the Governor’s Ball, I could have played the Governor’s Ball by myself.
I could have played that whole thing alone. But to me, like it was important to every, and most of the shows that were happening, and I’m only singling out that particular night because it happens every night and every, it’s not just about them, but that night, what I was feeling was like, man, all of all of my friends are playing these big events, but they weren’t a lot of women playing these events. So I was like, you know what? I’m gonna have two women, one open and one close for me to give them the same opportunity that I had to be able to say, oh, I played, I played the Governor’s Ball. Like not too many DJs could say, say they played the Governor’s Ball or the Oscars. And I wanted to make sure that I provided, you know, women with this, ex women with these experiences. You know, I mean, I look out for guys as well, you know, there are a lot of, you know, male DJs that I’m always looking out for, but with certain things, I’m like, no, I wanna make sure that I’m there. Also, whether it’s fundraising,
Dee, you’re being intentional about being an ally for women and, and that advocacy and that intention really matters, and it’s how you’re making an impact, right? And creating pathways to advancement for women, which is really important and we need more of it. So, you know, you know, in general, I’d be curious, do you think that men are doing enough to support gender equity? And are there some specific things that men should be doing from your perspective?
All right, so I, I do have my thoughts on that. I don’t think that we’re doing enough. You know, I, I mean, there are some people that are going above and beyond, but like, as, as a whole, no, I think that there are more things that we can do. One, I think we also need to stay outta women’s business and like, your, your why.
Could you say that again? Say louder. The folks in the back and here,
The back and here. Yeah, like, I mean, I’m being serious about that. It’s your body. You’re right. You know, like, I’m very serious about that, you know? And I think that that’s where we should start. You know, like you should be able to like, make choices for your body, you know, like that’s a real thing to me. And I think that we should, there’s so much more that we can do even in terms of just like, just supporting the movement. Now I’m not saying just put someone in a position that may not be qualified, you know, everybody should have that, that opportunity to be great. But if, if, if, if, if that person is qualified, don’t hold them back because she’s a woman. Like, that’s crazy to me. Like, so for me, I’m, I, I believe in, you know, in, in equality, I believe in everybody should have a fair opportunity to have these experiences, but I don’t believe that people should be held back because of race and because of gender. So I’m always gonna be an advocate and, and an ally for women.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. And again, you are using your power, your platform intentionally to create developmental experiences, career experiences, life experiences that do give women equitable opportunities. And I think provide leadership that hopefully others will follow. So greatly appreciated. Hats off to you. Keep it up. And it’s absolutely making a difference. Okay, Dee, unfortunately we need to start wrapping up. So let’s see if we can squeeze in two final questions. Sound good? Okay. Sound good?
Okay, let’s
Go. All right, let’s do it. We’ve talked about the healing power of music. It certainly has been in my life. How is music also a part of your self-care?
Oh, man. All right. So it’s funny, I listen to so much music that music isn’t the only thing that that provides me with like, you know, some self-help and some healing. You know, meditation has been like an important thing that I recently discovered that is not even something that I grew up with. I couldn’t stop things from moving in my head, like, and I couldn’t stop the music from playing. And one day I sat back and I, I started to, to, you know, take like a guided meditation class, and that’s been really good to me. So between meditation and music, it’s been like life changing music because it’s, like I said earlier, it’s the spirit of it. It’s the spirit of the songs, it’s the spirit of dance and that energy, you know, and, and exerting energy and, and, and receiving that energy from the music.
I’m feeling your energy now. You’ve got me
Swaying energy. Yeah. You know, I, I mean, and not hear music right now as I’m telling you this, I’m like, yes, I’m, you know, I know what that feeling is like. You know, it’s funny because a buddy of mine who’s a big dj, when I was playing so much music on, on my, my, my Instagram live in this virtual club quarantine, he called me and he said, man, you know, this is the first time that I can dance with my family. And that’s, that’s like powerful. Like you can play music that you want to just, you know, the way we either grew up or you would watch television and see like families cooking in the kitchen and music is playing. And, you know, to have that feeling and that experience every day to keep people inspired and to keep my myself inspired was, was just, it, it was beautiful and it still is beautiful. I still listen to music every day,
As do I, I mean, I, I grew up in a home full of music. My parents love music and we heard all different kinds of music and, and it filled my cup, then filled my soul then and still does today, and is absolutely a form of self-care that I invest in every single day. And it’s a gift. And you were a part of that gift and still are a part of that gift that keeps Thank you. And, and investing in self-care, whether that’s music or meditation or whatever it is that, that makes us feel whole and human is so important. I always say self-care, it’s important isn’t selfish. It’s essential. Yes. Okay, last question.
Okay. Okay,
We go. Your top three go-to songs that you spin when you wanna get your groove on and boost your energy.
Man, let me think about that. Give me like five seconds. Okay. I want to get my energy going. There’s a Teddy Pendergrass song called You Can’t Hide From Yourself.
What? Teddy Pendergrass. You went all the way back?
Yeah, all the way back. I went all the way back because it’s, it, you know, it’s about having that feeling. That song makes me happy. Two shorts Blow the Whistle, just something about that record that just Yes,
Got me going on all over the place. I love it. I
Love, and then there’s a Shakka Con record called I Know You, I Love You. I love Shakka Con. I love the feeling of that record of shock. And there’s not one time that I play that song that I’m not in my home twirling and dancing and feeling good. So yeah.
Wow. I mean, what an incredibly varied list that you provided us. I can’t say that I’m surprised I’m gonna be adding those all to my playlist. Thank you very much.
I’m grown. I can add whichever version I
Want to. Okay. That, that’s fair enough. That’s fair enough.
You know, I am really excited that you’re gonna be joining us at the luncheon keynote for a special conference for Women Club quarantine party. It’s gonna be dope.
Yes.
So, d nice. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your gifts and helping us build connection and community through music. It, it’s a gift that keeps on giving and I’m really excited to see you on the dance floor. So peace out. Thank
Peace. Thank you. Peace. Peace and love. Thank you for this beautiful conversation.
Peace and love. Peace and
Love.
Okay, I think it’s a wrap. It’s
A wrap. Beautiful. Thank you both.
The post Lift Your Spirits with Club Quarantine DJ D-Nice appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
This episode features a woman whose talent has no limitations: award-winning actress, entrepreneur, producer, women’s advocate, and New York Times bestselling author Reese Witherspoon!
Over the years, we’ve had the chance to see her shine on screen, as a producer behind the curtain, as an entrepreneur, and today in conversation with award-winning journalist Lisa Ling.
We will explore what Reese is doing to elevate women’s stories, change the narrative for women and help chart a new path forward. Part actionable tips and part inspiration, you will walk away empowered to navigate your career, take risks and find your purpose.
This conversation was originally recorded at the December 2022 Massachusetts Conference for Women.
This episode of Women Amplified is proudly sponsored by Cisco.
Additional Resources: Do you have a work/life problem? Let’s solve it! Tell us about your challenge here and you could be a guest on an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question!” * Sign up for the Women Amplified* email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops! * Join us as we welcome Tina Fey to Philadelphia this October 19th! Registration opens Thursday, April 20th at 9:00am ET. Learn more and sign up for the PACFW newsletter to be the first to know about new speaker confirmations.
Reese Witherspoon & Lisa Ling Episode TranscriptLing:
Well, I just want to launch into things because we all know that you are a hugely successful actress and producer and entrepreneur, and those things don’t always go hand-in-hand. Not all incredibly successful Hollywood actresses are also successful entrepreneurs. So I want to just ask you what you think the Reese Witherspoon secret sauce is? What are some of the essential qualities that you think have contributed to your success?
Reese Witherspoon:
Well, first of all, thank you for saying that. If I think really about my early beginnings and where my motivation comes from, I definitely think, I grew up in a military family, so there was very much a sensibility, a sense of duty, of giving back. You know, about being on time and being professional and being responsible to people. So that was a really good early foundation for me. And also, my mother was a nurse for 40 years and an educator at a university. And her dedication to her job, her love and passion for her job, really ignited in me this work ethic that I think has stayed with me through the years.
Lisa Ling:
So you would say work ethic has probably been the driver behind all of it?
Reese Witherspoon:
For sure. And I think also a passion for what I do. Even from when I was a really little girl, five years old, my grandmother taught me to read. She was a schoolteacher. And she would read to me and put me in her lap and read all the different voices of each character in a book. And I fell so deeply into this love of literature that has been a lifelong passion for me that I’ve kind of figured out how to use that passion for literature to make change in the Hollywood and media landscape by just talking about books championing female authors, and also turning some of those books into movies and television shows.
Lisa Ling:
Well, I do love your book club. I just picked up Celeste Ng’s new book per your recommendation, so.
Reese Witherspoon:
It’s so good.
Lisa Ling:
I’m very excited about that. But I want to stay on this topic of success and entrepreneurship just for another moment because a studio head once told you that without any embarrassment, “We have a movie with a woman at the center of it, but we’re not going to make two this year.” And what you did in response to that is pretty legendary. You made Wild and Gone Girl, two hugely successful films that put women’s stories at the center. So how would you say you’ve turned being underestimated into an advantage?
Reese Witherspoon:
At first, I was really upset and I told everybody who would listen that I’d not met just her, but actually seven different studio heads who all basically told me the same thing, that they weren’t developing anything for women at the center of the story and that they were happy to buy anything I brought to them, but that I would need to do my own development. So I decided to self-fund my first iteration of my company, and the first two books I bought were Wildand Gone Girl. Because they really spoke to a different kind of woman that I hadn’t seen on film.
First of all, Wild is a beautiful memoir written by Cheryl Strayed about a woman after the death of her mother, walks a thousand miles on the PCT. And for me, that was about this incredible connection women have with nature that we don’t normally see on film. And we see so many man versus wild movies, but I had to rack my brain to think of one movie where a woman is in the wilderness by herself. And so it was really important for me to make that film. It was also really a big deal that I put my own money into it and I put my own time and effort and energy, and it really ended up changing my entire career. That year we did Gone Girl and Wild and we ended up getting three Oscar nominations, and then the next year we were making Big Little Lies. And the ball started rolling from there.
Lisa Ling:
Did that scare you though when you were told we’re only going to make one film with a woman at the center? Did that intimidate you at all?
Reese Witherspoon:
No, it made me mad. I got really mad. And I think naturally, I’m a problem solver. I’m not a big complainer. So I found myself complaining about the problem in Hollywood and the lack of roles and the lack of development. And I thought, “Instead of complaining about this, I’ve got to do something about this.” And as any entrepreneur out there knows, there’s sweat equity, but there’s also real equity. And so I decided to put, the cardinal rule in Hollywood is, “Do not put your own money into movies.” And I broke it. And I thought, “If the studios aren’t going to develop complicated, interesting female characters, I will spend my own money doing it.” Because it’s that important to me.
Lisa Ling:
And speaking of life as an entrepreneur, I just wonder what lessons you’ve learned that you can help any women succeed in any field. I mean, the theme of this event is reset, renew, reconnect. And so I wonder how becoming an entrepreneur reset your career or renewed your ambitions?
Reese Witherspoon:
Yeah. Well, I want to say something that I think is really important. I didn’t go to business school. I just was a hardworking woman inside of an industry for 20 years. But I didn’t sit in boardrooms. I was never an executive. I didn’t know how to raise capital. Those are all things that I had to learn with the help of other people who were very generous.
But one thing that I really learned that was super important was instead of feeling intimidated by people using acronyms that I didn’t understand, like ROI or EBITDA, I said to them, I would say, “I’m so sorry. I’m going to stop you. What do you mean by that?” It’s refreshing to not know something and also admit that you don’t know something. And people are so happy that you’re curious about things. So I’m always ready to take a call too from a budding entrepreneur or someone who’s a young professional, because I always say to them, “If you don’t understand what’s going on, stop and ask very thoughtful questions. Your curiosity will guide you to greater relationships and better success.”
Lisa Ling:
Reese, that’s such important advice. I mean, I think we as women are very often so afraid of being perceived as not knowing or being perceived as a failure in any way. And we wear that idea of being a superwoman or a supermom sort of as a badge on our sleeve. But if you don’t know something, you have to learn somehow, and I don’t think that people ever become offended or think any less of you if you just simply ask.
Reese Witherspoon:
I was very lucky to be surrounded by incredible executives and people who are very patient with me. And I think there’s a lot of women who don’t have access to business school and don’t have those same relationships where they’re naturally networking with people who are using the same vernacular. And it’s a vernacular. You can learn it. Any industry that you’re entering, you can learn it. You just have to pay attention, Google a bunch of things all the time, and stay on top of it. You can also say to people, “Hey, what newsletter do you read every morning about our industry?” I also encourage young people know everything about your business, know how you market things, know how they make money, how do you lose money? What are the biggest points of vulnerability? How can you be of the greatest benefit to your organization, whether you are the founder or you’re just working inside of it.
Lisa Ling:
I want to ask you about another one of your businesses. In 2015, you started the Draper James clothing line, which you named after your grandparents. So tell us about their influence on you.
Reese Witherspoon:
Well, I always think I was so lucky to have grandparents who raised me because my parents were very busy working professionals, and I had grandparents who could pick me up after school and took time to do my homework with me and my brother and have dinner with them. And it wasn’t just about the work that we did together, but it was about the values that they instilled in me to care about their neighbors. My grandfather was a big, Big Brothers Big Sisters organization. He was always doing work with scholarships and helping out underserved communities. So that was a big inspiration to me. And my grandmother was just a voracious reader and always endlessly curious about the world. So I would say those are the biggest influences of my life. Just they taught me how to treat people with kindness.
Lisa Ling:
Wow. I mean, so much of your career really seems like it’s been kind of an homage to them.
Reese Witherspoon:
For sure. And I think a lot about the women that came before me, about my grandmother who, she graduated with a degree, a master’s degree in education, and she was very limited in her opportunities to work. And I think about the women who haven’t had the kind of opportunities that I’ve had, and it really means a lot to me that I do the most with these opportunities I have as an American woman, as an entrepreneur, as a woman inside of an industry to really change the industries we are in to help the next generation. I think about it a lot.
Lisa Ling:
That’s powerful. Well, a year after founding Draper James, you co-founded Hello Sunshine, which is an immensely successful media company, which is focused on changing how women are seen in the media. Basically you set out to help women take charge of their own stories. Why was that so imperative for you to want to do, empower women in this way?
Reese Witherspoon:
Well, I saw from years, I’d probably been in the movie business 20 years at that point, and I saw this real lack of female authorship. Not a lot of female directors, not a lot of screenwriters, and no pipeline being created to bring them into the mainstream of our business. So I thought if I am going to take a chance, and I went and raised capital to start this business, I really wanted to make sure that we were addressing where audiences were.
It was also a time when streaming was emerging and social media was proliferating like crazy. So I was seeing all these incredible creators self-publishing, but Hollywood sort of not noticing. So I thought if I can address where, having a real diverse media company, not just film and television, but social media, podcasts, trying to reach women where they are instead of expecting them to come to me, I think that’s what really gave us an advantage because we were reading books. I mean, I was reading so many books, Lisa, I was like books and books and scripts and scripts just to start that idea that women should be the authors of their own stories. There’s no reason why we can’t be putting them behind the camera and in front of the camera. You get a better, wider experience of what it means to be a woman on this planet right this minute when you have women telling those stories.
Lisa Ling:
And it is incredible how the market has really opened up so much just given all of the different platforms on which people can tell their stories. I mean, there are just so many more outlets available.
Reese Witherspoon:
Totally. And I love looking at Instagram reels and trying to find talent and looking on TikTok. And it’s great to see that you can be the captain of your own ship and really drive your own career now. There’s all these tools available to you, and I really want to encourage more women to take what’s available to them and use it to their advantage.
Lisa Ling:
Well, as you say, the power of women’s stories is just so important, not just on the screen, but in our own individual lives. And what have you learned that women might find helpful as storytellers of their own lives, of their own narratives?
Reese Witherspoon:
It’s so interesting. I was just talking to a friend about this, about self-expression. So self-expression doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to write a book. You can write an article that you can publish on Substack, you can change your social media profile to be more in tune and in line with the integrity of who you are, whether that’s you’re a small business owner or you are an activist and you want to talk about things that are important to you and you’re passionate about.
I’m very good friends with Sara Blakely, who started Spanx, and I said, “Sara, how many times have you told the origin story of Spanx?” She goes, “Reese, I have told it 5,000 times, but every time it makes me so happy because I see that it reaches a new person.” So never stop telling the story of what you’re passionate about or why you’re doing something in your workplace because people are really listening, and particularly people who look up to you or are looking for their own motivation. Some people are just a little bit lost, and it’s good to hear why certain people pivot in their careers, maybe take on a second different aspect of their life. I always look for inspiration in other people’s actions.
Lisa Ling:
Well, and these days we are all looking and craving and really yearning for inspiration. So that idea of being able to again, get it out there and share it with others, it’s inevitable that it will be received well, I think. So getting back to Hello Sunshine, because that company has been so much of what you are about, it puts women at the center of every story. And so how does that mission inspire how you lead and how would you describe the culture of where you lead?
Reese Witherspoon:
Well, I think Hello Sunshine is, it was just born out of this passion for really kind of trying to change Hollywood. The way I found Hollywood was not a place I’d want my daughter to work, not a place I’d want anyone else’s daughter to work. So I knew I had to do something to create safer work environments, a place where women had the opportunity to ascend and be in leadership positions.
And I think for me, it was a real pivot from being an actress for hire and waiting for scripts to come to me and waiting for directors to call me to be more entrepreneurial and going, “Okay, I’m going to invest my own money. I’m going to option some of these books, and then I’m going to have to bust my tail to get them made.” And I’ll call everybody. I mean, I will call anybody. And I will also, I always say, “I’m my own lottery ticket.” I will always bet on me because I will show up, I will do the work, I’ll do the extra work and, yeah, I’ll do whatever it takes to get the job done because I’m that passionate about it. My purpose lines up with my work. So I think that was a really big moment for me when I turned about 34 that I wanted to have purpose in my work.
Lisa Ling:
Yeah, that’s beautiful. This conference or all of these conferences for women, they’re really about community rooted in women supporting other women. So tell us about your own community of women and how you support each other.
Reese Witherspoon:
Oh my gosh, I have an amazing, first of all, I have the best friends in the whole world who have been my friends forever, who’ve always encouraged me. And I’m so lucky that I can have a soft place to land when I don’t have great days. I have the ability to let out my frustrations. Because it is, it’s hard running companies and being a mom and being a wife, and it’s a lot. So it’s important to have those kind of relationships.
And also, I have a handful of female entrepreneurs who I’m friends with. Candace Nelson is a friend of mine who has a book coming out about being an entrepreneur. She started Sprinkles Cupcakes and she was on Sugar Rush on Netflix. She and I talk a lot about what it takes to be an entrepreneur and that you can’t do it alone. You have to have other people around you with different skill sets that actually pick up where you leave off or fill in the blank spaces because it’s simply not possible to be a one man band and run a successful business.
So it’s really helpful to have either women around me who I can go, “What’s going on with your business right now? Okay, are we going into a recession? How’s that affecting you? What did the pandemic do for you culturally? What are your work from home rules?” Things like that. As people are instating new policies, really trying to pick other people’s brains about how they’re handling things.
Lisa Ling:
Do you think that women leaders bring something different to the table?
Reese Witherspoon:
Oh, certainly. I mean, I think by nature, women and men lead differently. We share leadership at our company, so there’s not a feeling of one person has to be in charge and speak over everybody, it’s sort of a very equal leadership across each one of our key executives that sits over every vertical really has an opportunity to speak in every staff meeting. We also make sure that SVPs and VPs get to speak. Sometimes creative executives get to speak, and we get to hang out with the interns too because we have a really robust intern program. Because we really want to show people that even if they come for a while, that this is these skills they can be carried into the world and that women are incredibly diverse leaders. I just think by nature we bring something different to the table.
Lisa Ling:
Definitely. Well, last year you sold Hello Sunshine for 900 million dollars while joining the board and continuing to run the company, and that really cemented your place as one of Hollywood’s most successful entrepreneurs. So how have your thoughts on the idea of success changed over the years and what does that term or that notion of success mean to you?
Reese Witherspoon:
That’s such a good question. I ask a lot of my partners and anyone I start work with, I say, “What is the measure of success? Before we begin, what would be the best result of this?” And for me, I think it’s a mix. So we definitely want to be financially successful. We want every project to do really well, but each project has its own measure. So I would say there are certain projects that we do because the story is so important, we want to get it out there, but it isn’t necessarily like we’re expecting a huge economic return. So we try to level set for each project that we have and try to obviously have a fiduciary responsibility to our investors, but also the importance of who we are as a company, as a brand, how we show up as a brand to consumers, that they trust us, that we are making decisions that are aligned with our integrity is really important to me.
Lisa Ling:
Well, along those lines, would you consider yourself a big risk-taker? And how do you calculate risk?
Reese Witherspoon:
I would say I am a risk-taker, a very thoughtful, pragmatic risk-taker. So I am willing to take chances, and I have certainly had my failures. I’ve certainly thought, “Oh my gosh, this movie’s such a great idea. I can’t wait to do it.” And it did not end up well. So I learned from each one of those. I don’t call them failures either. They’re not really failures. It was just a, I don’t know, an attempt at something that just didn’t work out. But I always learned something from it. And I always try and after I lick my wounds and go, “Okay, well everybody hated that movie,” or, “That TV show didn’t work.” Go, okay, “Why? Why did people not show up for that?” And so I try to get analytical about it and I try to do sort of a forensic study of each thing, and then we go back and we regroup with the whole team and say, “Why do you think this didn’t work? Oh, okay. All right. I see that.” And so we are always trying to learn more to do better.
Lisa Ling:
Reese, a couple of minutes ago you said that injecting or infusing joy into your businesses and into your work is really important, especially during these times. What do you think people are receiving from that effort on your part to want to bring joy? How do you think that that initiative is impacting people in our culture during these confusing, unpredictable times?
Reese Witherspoon:
Yeah. Well, first of all, I feel so fortunate that I get to go out in the world and talk about positivity and movies that are not about people murdering each other. It might have a plot, but it’s like, I don’t know, we don’t swim in the dark lane, I will say, which is nice.
But I think one thing that’s been a big initiative for us this coming year is actually romance. Because I read this article that in ignited this idea for me probably two or three years ago that said, most of what we learn about interpersonal relationships and romance is from movies and television shows. And the lack of seeing that has actually deeply impacted how young people express their thoughts and feelings with each other romantically. And older people too, because it’s a lot of modeling that we don’t see in our real lives. How do you ask a girl out? How do you break up with someone? So we really pivoted into romance this year. So we have two romantic movies coming out and one extremely romantic television show and another show that’s all about love and loss. And I’m really excited to see how audiences respond to that. Because I think it’s important that you’re putting work in the world that inspires people to have more conversation, I think.
Lisa Ling:
I love that. Reese, you’re so right. We are seeing romance and affection, tenderness, love modeled so far less frequently, so much more infrequently, because so many of us are communicating on devices and seeking validation by people we don’t even know by way of social media. And so where are we seeing those beautiful, healthy relationships that give you goosebumps? It seems like it’s increasingly fewer and fewer.
Reese Witherspoon:
And look, I think there’s a lot of, as I speak to younger people now, they’re tired of the phone taking up all their attention and wanting to have more community. I mean, it’s an intrinsic part of being a human is you just want to connect over something. One of our authors, Eve Rodsky, wrote a amazing book called Unicorn Space about finding something to do with your life that isn’t about being a parent or working that is uniquely you. Whether it’s hiking, photography, art classes, going to a dance class once a month. It’s so important to cultivate what makes you unique. Because I think sitting there and looking at device, trust me, I’m so addicted to my device. I am not one to preach to anybody about it. But I do think there’s something to be said about curating your own life and not having an algorithm tell you what your taste is or what you want to do with your day, but actually getting out in the world and into a community where you have to show up and be responsible, but also have some joy and fun. It’s a great concept.
Lisa Ling:
Okay. I’m going to put you on the spot talking about romance. Are we going to see you in the romantic lead in some of these projects? And I know you have a beautiful relationship with your husband, but are there any actors out there that you kind of would love to be in a romantic comedy or film with?
Reese Witherspoon:
Oh my gosh. Well, I’m so excited because I do have a movie coming on February with Ashton Kutcher and it’s coming on Netflix and it’s called Your Place or Mine, and it’s written by this amazing female writer director who did Devil Wears Prada and Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, and she’s so funny. Her name is Aline Brosh McKenna, and the movie is just beyond charming, and it was a delight to work with Ashton, and I’d never worked with him before. So it was really fun. And it’s coming out February 10th on Netflix.
Lisa Ling:
Well, Reese, beyond being a phenomenally talented actress, your drive and your passion are just so palpable. So we congratulate you on all your success. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with all of us..
Reese Witherspoon:
Thank you so much. It’s so nice to talk to you, and thank you for your very thoughtful questions.
The post Representation and Equity: Inspiration from Reese Witherspoon appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
Today’s episode features leadership trailblazer and former IBM CEO Ginni Rometty in conversation with Fortune’s Ellen McGirt. From navigating a challenging childhood to becoming one of the world’s most influential business leaders, Rometty is a unique leader and an amazing role model for business leaders everywhere.
This conversation, originally recorded for the 2023 California Conference for Women, explores the pivotal milestones from Rometty’s life and career to form a blueprint for how we can use “good power” to advance our careers, inspire our teams, improve companies, and create healthier societies.
With a mix of personal experiences and actionable coaching advice, walk away with invaluable lessons around authentic leadership and ways to redefine power to drive meaningful change for ourselves, our organizations, and our communities. This conversation originally took place at the 2023 California Conference for Women.
This episode is sponsored by Cisco.
Ginni RomettyGinni Rometty is the former chairman, president, and chief executive officer of IBM. She became CEO of IBM in 2012 and retired from the company on December 31, 2020. Rometty reinvented more than 50 percent of IBM’s portfolio, built a $25 billion hybrid cloud business and established IBM’s leadership in AI, quantum computing, and blockchain. Under Rometty’s leadership, IBM achieved record results in diversity and inclusion through programs that extended parental leave, made it easier for women to return to the workforce, and more.
Rometty is the co-chair of OneTen, an organization that is combining the power of US companies to upskill, hire, and promote one million Black Americans over the next 10 years into family-sustaining jobs with opportunities for advancement. She is the author of GOOD POWER: Leading Positive Change in Our Lives, Work, and World (March 7, 2023; Harvard Business Review Press).
Celeste Headlee*Celeste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway* from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources: Get free shipping on all our speaker titles — including Rometty’s Good Power: Leading Positive Change in Our Lives, Work, and World — when you shop our independent partner bookstore at Bookpeople. * Connect with Rometty at twitter.com/GinniRometty, instagram.com/ginnirometty and linkedin.com/in/ginnirometty/ * Do you have a work/life problem? Let’s solve it! Tell us about your challenge here and you could be a guest on an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question!” * Sign up for the Women Amplified* email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops!
The post Leadership Lessons from IBM Trailblazer Ginni Rometty appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
Misty Copeland made history as the first African-American female principal ballerina at the American Ballet Theatre.
Her talent, passion, and perseverance enabled her to do what no one had accomplished before. In this episode, which is a replay of an extraordinary conversation from the March 2023 California Conference for Women, Target’s EVP and chief external engagement officer Laysha Ward gets up close and personal with Misty Copeland.
Together they talk about Copeland’s journey of resilience and courage through struggles with racism and exclusion. They also discuss her new book, The Wind At My Back, which celebrates the special connection Copeland made with her mentor Raven Wilkinson.
Listen in, and learn how mentorship and intergenerational relationships can propel your career and bring additional meaning to your life.
Our Guest: Misty CopelandMisty Copeland is a principal dancer at American Ballet Theatre and the author of the New York Times bestsellers Life in Motion, Ballerina Body, Black Ballerinas, and the children’s picture book Bunheads, as well as the award-winning children’s book, Firebird. She made her Broadway debut in 2015’s On the Town, putting the show into the Broadway Box Top 10 for the two weeks that she guest starred as Ivy Smith.
She’s been featured in the New York Times and on CBS Sunday Morning and 60 Minutes, and she was named one of Glamour’s Women of the Year and Time magazine’s 100 most influential people.
Copeland is the recipient of the Young, Gifted & Black Honor at the Black Girls Rock! Awards and the Springarn Medal, the NAACP’s highest honor.
Guest Host: Laysha WardLaysha Ward is an accomplished C-suite executive with thirty years of leadership experience at Target. In 2017, Ward was named executive vice president, chief external engagement officer, overseeing Target’s enterprise-wide approach to engage and deepen relationships with cross-sector stakeholders to drive positive business and community impact. In 1991, Ward began her career with Target as a member of the store sales and management team of Marshall Fields in Chicago. In 2000, she was named director of community relations and promoted to vice president of community relations and Target Foundation in 2003. In 2008, President Bush nominated, and the U.S. Senate confirmed Ward would serve on the board of directors of the Corporation for National and Community Service, the nation’s largest grantmaker for volunteering and service, which she continued to serve as board chair under the Obama Administration. Later that year, she was promoted to president of community relations and the Target Foundation. She serves on the Aspen Institute Latinos and Society Advisory Board and the Stanford Center for Longevity Advisory Council, is a member of the Executive Leadership Council, the Economic Clubs of New York and Chicago, Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, The Links, and serves on the boards of Greater MSP, the Minnesota Orchestra, and the Northside Achievement Zone, as well as United Airlines and Denny’s Corporation for-profit board of directors. She received a bachelor’s degree from Indiana University, master’s degree from the University of Chicago, and an honorary Doctorate of Laws from the University of Minnesota’s Humphrey School of Public Affairs. She and her husband, Bill, reside in Minneapolis, MN.
Women Amplified Host: Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources:* Website: Misty Copeland * Get FREE shipping on Copeland’s books when you order from our partner bookstore, BookPeople.
Episode TranscriptLaysha:
I’m so excited to have you here. I am fan girling. Just love, love, love your, your work and your artistry. So let’s begin by talking about your role in history. You’re the first black female principal dancer with the American Ballet Theater, the highest level a dancer can achieve. How did you discover ballet and what was it that you loved about it?
Misty:
Wow. I, I often say that ballet discovered me. I, I didn’t know anything about it. I, I had a love of music. That was kind of the, the, the common like language in my household was was music. You know, we, whether we were sad or, you know, feeling joy, joyful music kind of told that story. We didn’t really communicate verbally, which you know, has been something I’ve worked on my whole life. But music was that thing for us, and, and I naturally kind of fell into dancing and movement. Like that’s how I responded to hearing music. But it wasn’t until I was 13 years old at my Boys and Girls Club in San Pedro, California that a free ballet class was being offered, and me and my five siblings were already members of the Boys and Girls Club.
So we were there, you know, in order for my mother to work several jobs and for us to stay safe and off the streets. So when I, this ballet class was being offered, I was really forced into taking it. And the first couple of classes I took Ron, a basketball court in the gym, and it was not something I was excited about. It was so foreign to me. I’d never heard classical music before. It wasn’t until I was taken into the local ballet studio on full scholarship that I really started to fall in love with it.
Laysha:
Misty, say more about when you say you were forced to take that class at the Boys and Girls Club. Yeah. What was, what do you mean by that?
Misty:
So there was a, a, a drill team coach. I was the captain of the drill team at my middle school. Even though I had no dance experience, I somehow ended up in that position. You know, just, I think out of this sheer love of, of movement and, and music again. And it was the, the drill team coach Elizabeth Cantine, who suggested I take these free ballet classes. She thought that I was a really natural mover. And when she introduced me to Cynthia Bradley, who was the teacher at the Boys and Girls Club she, she knew of my ability, but I was so introverted that I just, the thought of doing something so far outside of my comfort zone was mortifying. So I would sit in the bleachers like week after week when this class was being given at the Boys and Girls Club.
And every, every class, Cynthia, Cynthia would come over and she would talk to me and try and get me to step onto the court. And it took weeks of, of her convincing me that this was something I should try and that the environment was gonna be safe, and that I, you know, it wouldn’t be as scary as I thought it was going to be. And, and she was right. And it became even more of the safe space for me when I stepped into an actual ballet studio. Once we had left the Boys and Girls Club, I was at her school, the San Pedro Dance Center and was in an actual studio. I could see myself in the mirror. I was wearing ballet attire, which I wasn’t wearing at the Boys and Girls Club. And everything about it made me feel like I was a part of something that was bigger than me. That I was a part of a community, that I was doing something that was beautiful and, and I felt beautiful and, and safe for the first time in my life.
Laysha:
Hmm. I love that you clearly had people in your life who were betting on you, who believed in you, and who were nurturing and encouraging you to, to really use your talent in your gifts in ways that you hadn’t fully expressed or even perhaps quite understood yet. So amazing to hear, you know, in a field that has been predominantly white, you know, you’ve really broken barriers that many thought weren’t possible. How did that experience change you and change ballet?
Misty:
Wow. you know, coming into, coming from a diverse, you know, experience growing up in California you know, being a part of a diverse community, it was, it was somewhat of a shock to, to my system entering the ballet world pro, but probably not until I, I was a professional, did I really start to understand how rare it was to see a black or brown woman in the classical ballet world. And it definitely you know, it changed the way that I, I thought of myself. Like, I, I was always very aware of the fact that I was a black girl. Like, that’s the way my mother raised me, even though I’m biracial. She was like, you are black. That’s how the world is going to view you. That’s how you’re going to be you know, people are gonna react or treat you in a certain way because you are a black woman.
Laysha:
How did you feel when your, when your mom coached you in that way?
Misty:
It was just normal. I mean, I mean, I was proud. I was proud to be, you know, to be a black girl. And, and, you know, I don’t think I ever felt any outwardly anyways. Like, I never felt any confusion about being biracial. Like, I felt very comfortable in my skin with, with kind of owning that, yes, I am biracial, but this is, this is how, you know, this is the community I’m a part of. And moving to New York City, I thought that I was gonna have this incredible experience. You know, I’m moving to this diverse place, and I was spending eight hours a day in a studio with only white people in a building with only white people once I joined American Ballet Theater. And and it, it, I mean, psychologically, emotionally, mentally, like, it really took a toll on me. And, you know, it took me kind of reaching out and mentors coming into my life organically, but I think they came into my life because I was ready for them. And
Laysha:
You, you, you’re hitting on something that I think is really important for us to explore a bit. You said you were ready for them to come into your life. Say more about that.
Misty:
Yeah, you know, I, I have a lot of young people in my life, and when we talk about what it means to have mentors and how you connect with them, like what that looks like and I do think that, you know, it’s not just about kind of stumbling upon or, you know, or, or people kind of reaching out to you and, and guiding you, but being open to, to accepting advice and accepting guidance, which I think is hard for a lot of young people to do when you’re growing and you’re figuring out who you are and who you want to be and, and you think you know everything. And, and, and I had to, to really, I think I, I grew up fast in that sense of being open and ready for guidance because I was alone, because I was in an atmosphere where I didn’t have this kind of built in support on a daily basis. And so I knew I needed that in order to succeed in the ballet world. So, you know, it was, it was a journey, but it’s really been about the support system that I’ve had from mostly black women that have been kind of the, my backbone .
Laysha:
Oh, love that. And, you know, we talk about young people not always being as open as we’d like them to be, but you know, sometimes that’s the case for adults too, right? This, this willingness to be open. So thank you for your openness and your willingness to share so transparently what your experience has been like and, and how that might serve as an inspiration for others. You know, historically, ballet has been inaccessible to many and viewed as a privilege pursuit of sorts. Your upbringing, however, was not one of financial privilege. And in fact, at one point you said that your mom told you that you had to quit because you were not able to get to lessons. It was just too hard. So can you tell us a bit more about that?
Misty:
Yeah. You know, it was a very different experience than, you know, my, my peers that I was surrounded by. You know, when I started out with my ballet training at the time, my mother had had just divorced her fourth husband. You know, we were so used to instability me and my siblings and, and you know, not no consistency. We were constantly moving in, in different schools. And we had settled in a motel and we were, me and my, my five siblings were all in one room sleeping on the floor. And you know, at that point, ballet, you know, it was an extracurricular activity in my mother’s eyes. And she had six children that she needed to keep in school, you know, food on the table, roof over our head. And she was struggling financially and in every way.
And so the first thing that she needed to do was make sure that I was safe. And I was going back and forth on a public bus to get to and from Vale, or finding rides to get there. And so it was like a no-brainer for her. Like, ballet needs to to end, and you need to be at home, you know, and safe. And it was, you know, at a point where I think me and my, my teacher, Cindy, had realized that this really could be a career path for me. And, you know, my family didn’t grow up in that, in, in the ballet world, so no one really understood what that really meant. So when my mom said I needed to quit you know, it was a big secret for me that I didn’t share a lot of our personal experiences at home.
I didn’t have a lot of close friends because I was so ashamed of, of the constant moving and not having a lot of money. And so my teacher, Cindy, didn’t even know where I was living. And it was on the ride home that I gave her the address, and she didn’t realize we were living in a motel until she turned into the parking garage and saw where we were living. And it was, it was mortifying for me. And I remember just running out of the car and into the room and kind of sitting in a corner and kind of reverting back to the person I was before I, I found ballet before ballet found me. This introverted kind of zoned out little girl. And a couple of minutes later, Cindy came back and she knocked on the door and invited me to come live with her and her family. And I
Laysha:
So
Misty:
Powerful. Yeah, I packed up my book bag that day. And
Laysha:
On this, the spot that day, you packed up,
Misty:
Literally within minutes I was in her car and on my way to her house. And and I ended up living with her for three
Laysha:
Years. So tell us about that conversation with your, your mom and your siblings. What was that like?
Misty:
I mean, as I was saying earlier, there wasn’t a lot of communication in my household verbally. So I don’t remember there really even being a conversation. Wow. The conversation was between Cindy and my mother. And I didn’t hear the conversation. They were kind of whispering in the doorway. And my mother just turned to me and said, Cindy has invited you to live with her. And, and I was like, I, yes, I, I wanna go. You know, I knew I had an idea of what could be possible and that I could, I could build, I could break the cycle of what I was experiencing and also do something that brought me beauty and, and serenity and comfort and consistency and, you know, all the amazing things that art brings to children and to people. To be able to walk away from that was a nightmare. And so I was gonna do anything I could to stay a part of it.
Laysha:
That is so extraordinary. I, I, I’m just blown away by your story, by your wisdom, by the vision and courage, quite frankly, that you expressed at such an early age incredible to hear about. And, and it sounds like your teacher really recognized that you were a prodigy. And, and for some people, you know, that kind of label could come with great expectations that could be really hard to live up to. So how did you deal with that pressure? Yeah. And did it get easier with age?
Misty:
I never really, I don’t wanna say accepted, but the word prodigy meant nothing to me. . I never I never,
Laysha:
But you were, you were a prodigy, though. Let’s be clear. , no question
Misty:
. I, I, I knew that I was learning at a really rapid speed and that I had a lot of catching up to do. But I never focused on that. I never got caught up in what that label meant. I knew that I was in love with this thing I was doing, and that every day I was so eager and hungry to be in the studio. I mean, this was the experience that I wish I would’ve had in school. And I, and that’s why I think it’s so important to have the arts, because not every child learns in the same way. And I didn’t learn in a way that worked for me, like sitting behind a desk and reading from a book, I knew you’re
Laysha:
An experiential learner. Experiential for sure. Exactly
Misty:
Right. And so you know, when I, when I started dancing I was just, I couldn’t wait to learn every day. And, and, and that made me, you know, soak it all in even more because I was excited to be there and hungry. It wasn’t until I moved to New York City and and kind of ha had this reputation, I guess , you know, my name had had kind of traveled beyond San Pedro, California where I grew up you know, from the competitions that I had won at a young age. The big controversy that happened when you know, my, my teacher had suggested I emancipate myself in order to have full control over my career. There was a lot that happened where it was like national news and people knew me as this prodigy. You know, I had only trained for four years before I joined American Ballet Theater and, and moved to New York City.
So it wasn’t until then that I realized the weight of that word but again, I just focused on what I needed to do. It, it, it wasn’t about writing on, you know, this, this idea of me being a prodigy or what I had done in the past. It was like I had goals set at American Ballet Theater as soon as I arrived there. And and it was like, I knew in my mind that I was starting from scratch. I was surrounded by people that I idolized, people that I’d been watching my entire career on, on VHS tapes, . There was no YouTube back then, , but
Laysha:
VHS tape some, some of the people listening don’t even know what a VH tech tape is, .
Misty:
But I was, I was studying these people and surrounded by greatness, so I knew I had to rise to the occasion. So that prodigy label, I feel like never weighed me down. And, and I think I escaped it.
Laysha:
I love that though. You were focused on doing something that you loved and honing in on your craft and just continuing to get better. And, and clearly that formula was a formula for success and really appreciate you sharing that perspective. You know, in the ballet world, there is an expectation of perfection, I think, and perfectionism is a challenging issue for many women. Women. And so, do you consider yourself a perfectionist? And if so, what does that look like for you?
Misty:
Hmm. I’ve always thought of myself as a perfectionist. I mean, even before ballet. But I, I feel like looking at what that word means now, I feel such a sense of negativity attached to it. And I think a lot of this, like perfection that I, that I felt, especially as a young person, was really based around fear and, and judgment. Like what people would were gonna think of me, which made me feel that I had to, to be perfect, whatever that means. I mean, there’s so many different ideas of what that means and for, for different people. But yes, there is, there is this negativity and perfectionism, like around classical ballet, and I wanna get rid of that. You know, I, I feel like at this point in my career, you’re at 40 years old. I’ve been a professional at a b t for over 20 years.
And, and it’s really about me being the best, my best self every day. And that every day is a new opportunity to, to, you know, strive for something different. And I think that’s the beauty of, like, the classical ballet technique and working, using your body as an instrument, is that it’s ever changing. You can’t, I mean, you can, you can prepare it the best way you can by training, by resting, by getting body work done, but in the end, like these small nuanced changes that happen from day to day, you can’t really control. And so you have to be really present and really grounded in yourself and in your body and be be forgiving of, you know, what may go on. So that’s a long way around answer saying that I, I don’t believe in, in being like a perfectionist.
Laysha:
I, I, I love that thoughtful response, and I love this focus on just being the best version of yourself every day and waking up every day just trying to do and be your best. It’s phenomenal. You know, there are unique pressures that come with being a woman. So what advice do you have for the women listening today who are struggling with some of these pressures?
Misty:
You know, what I always go back to is the importance of having a support system in your life. You know, whether that’s family or friends, or you know, your work colleagues. I think that it’s so vital as women in this society that we have one another, especially to lean on that we try to not to set these expectations that aren’t, aren’t realistic or, or manageable that, you know, you try not to compare yourself to other people. I know that sounds like so basic and like, you know, what we, what we say to five year olds, but I think it’s something we have to continue, continue to say to ourselves, even, even as adults, as, as, as grown, you know, professional women that it’s so powerful to be an individual and to be uniquely yourself. And it’s so interesting that I, you know, that’s something that became a theme in my relationship with Prince when we worked together that if I was going to take that advice from anyone, it was gonna be Prince who was such a unique and incredible individual and artist, and the power in owning who you are is, it’s so powerful.
Laysha:
Oh, I love that. I’m a huge Prince fan by the way. And he certainly was a unique artist with many, many gifts and talents. And so it’s really fun to hear about your personal relationship and the wisdom that you gained from him as well. You know, I often say life is about progress, not perfection. And, and certainly you’ve spoken about that and the importance of women supporting women and, and this conference really is all about that. So, you know, thank you for sort of connecting to the theme of this conference. You know, shifting a bit, receiving negative feedback is never easy, and it’s natural for it to feel really personal at times. And so I’d be curious to hear from you how you’ve navigated challenging feedback throughout your career.
Misty:
Yeah. I definitely connect with this question . I think that, you know, throughout the course of my career, it’s, it’s been about being comfortable in, in my skin and, and knowing who I am, and knowing the person I want to be, the artist that I want to be. And being able to sift through when there’s negativity attached to the feedback you’re getting or criticism as dancers, it’s, it’s, it’s built into what we do. You know, throughout an entire hour and a half class that we take every morning, you’re constantly getting feedback and criticism, and it’s try, it’s understanding what works for you. You know, again, if it’s coming from the right place, there are people that you trust that it’s coming from. Again, it’s sifting through where that’s coming from. So for me you know, if it’s coming from, you know, people in blogs who have whatever it is to say about me or my performances, it’s like, you kind of take it with a grain of salt,
Laysha:
Right? That’s just noise. Right. And you can sort of put that beside
Misty:
Exactly. Exactly. And, and you know, when it’s, you know, whether it’s the my coaches that I trust, of course I’m, I’m going to accept and take that, that feedback and criticism and work on myself. And that’s how you become your best self every day. And, and there’s something so beautiful about having people around you who are going to be open and honest and help you to be your best self.
Laysha:
Yeah. That’s fantastic. You know, I’ve found that even challenging feedback is an opportunity for learning and growth, particularly if it’s coming from a safe space and a trusted voice as you articulate it. So, wonderful, wonderful advice. And the advice that, you know, if it’s not coming from a great place, and social media at times is not always kind, that we have to learn how to, you know, shut out that noise and focus on the voices and the insights that that really matter most and are in our best interest. So really, really great advice. You know, after four years of intensive training with your first teacher you were a professional dancer performing at Lincoln Center just four years. That is absolutely incredible. How did you achieve so much success in a relatively short period of time?
Misty:
You know, I think that I was craving the opportunity, which is why it’s so important for young people to have opportunity and access. You know, I think that we think about children and that they don’t wanna be a part of a discipline or that they don’t wanna be told what to do. And I think that we’re all craving having direction and having guidance. And I know that because of my upbringing I didn’t have a lot of that. And so stepping into the, to the ballet world, it was like, oh, this is exactly what I need. I needed that structure. And so I think that I was ready, I was ready for it, and I was ready to, you know, I wa it wasn’t something I was being pushed into or told I needed to do, or forced into taking a ballet class. It was something that I wanted to do when I could see the power and the beauty, and I felt so confident in myself for the first time in my life. So I think that helped me learn quickly. I, it also, you know, I think I was born to dance. I think that, oh
Laysha:
I love that you were born to dance. H what a glorious thing to know what you were born to do.
Misty:
Yeah. . Yeah. I think that you know, like stepping onto the stage for the first time and recognizing you know, the safety, like, which is so, you know, kind of counterintuitive, maybe people would think or contradictory, that you step onto a stage and you’re so naked and exposed and vulnerable. And I felt the exact opposite. I felt like this was a, a space where no one could touch me. No one could say anything to me. I’m on the stage and I’m able to express myself in a way that works for me, which was not verbally , but through my body to tell stories, you know, with my body. And there was something so empowering for me. But, you know, I also had incredible support and teachers that that understood how I learned, you know, I’m, I’m a visual learner and I picked things up really quickly, visually and could mimic them. So it was great that I had teachers that were beautiful dancers when I was, was imitating them. But it was a team that has built me and the dancer that I am
Laysha:
Oh, so empowering. I’m really struck by, again, when you said that you knew what you were born to do, and thematically the other point that you made, not only did you know what you were born to do, but you had opportunity and access really important takeaways for us as we think about things that we might need, but also what we might be called to help provide to others, including the young people in our lives. Really important. So I wanna shift gears, if that’s okay, and talk about your experience as the only black woman at the American Ballet Theater for almost a decade. And you’ve often been the first one, the only one, or one of a few, something that so many of us can relate to. I know, I certainly can. So what was that like for you as an up and coming ballerina, and did it change when you broke through to become a principal dancer?
Misty:
You know, I want to be able to say that everything is amazing now that I’m a principal dancer, and that you know, all of the issues went away. But it’s, it’s not the case. It’s, it’s been it’s been a long journey and, you know, the, those first 10 years of my career were extremely challenging. You know, to f be figuring out how to navigate as a black woman and a white space it’s really difficult. At the same time, I’m coming into my own, you know, I was 17 years old and I moved to New York City, and, and I’m growing up and becoming a woman in front of thousands of people every night on the stage and dealing with being alone. And it’s, it’s, it’s made me stronger. It’s, it’s allowed me to understand people in a better way how do, have real conversations. And and it, it’s, it’s hard to articulate, you know, and, and it, that it’s shouldn’t be our responsibility as black people and as black women to put our feelings aside in order to make whoever we’re talking to feel safe and comfortable talking about uncomfortable topics. But that’s something that I learned to do in order to succeed in a white space. So it was, you know,
Laysha:
And so you, you found yourself trying to make other people feel more comfortable. And, and how did you do that in a way that didn’t require that you shrink and become less than yourself? How were you able still still able to stand strong and, and be who you were in that context?
Misty:
I think that it goes back to what I was saying earlier and, and what my mother instilled in me. I stepped into this space, having a, having a comfortable and strong understanding of who I was as a black woman. So that when I came to the space, it wasn’t like I was confused and I, you know, and I was trying to shrink or not be black in this space, but it was more about having the confidence in who I was in, in, in my skin, and being vulnerable in expressing my experiences. So, you know, it it, you know, the stereotype of black women of, of, you know, being maybe overemotional of women have that stereotype, or black women just being too aggressive. So all of these things are going through my mind at 19 years old when I’m having conversations with my artistic director, which is already terrifying, you know to, to have a conversation with your boss. But I, you know, was just aware, I was having conversations before I was having the conversation to prepare. It was like rehearsing for the performance
Laysha:
. I think we all often do that. That’s such
Misty:
A great point, right? Which I think is a great idea, you know, to, to run through the, those thoughts in your mind and, and be comfortable with what it is you wanna articulate and say. And I was doing that from a young age and, and being open and sharing that these are, these are the experiences I’m having as a black woman in this space, and asking questions and asking for advice and having a, a conversation. So it wasn’t just me being emotional and saying, this is happening to me and I don’t know what to do. But having, having a back and forth, and I built a beautiful relationship with a lot of the artistic staff at American Valley Theater that I think allowed for them to see me as a human being, and not just as a black woman or someone who’s different, or someone who’s coming fr you know, with a chip on my shoulder.
Laysha:
Yeah. I love that. I often say, see me as I am, not as you want me to be. And I think that’s certainly something that you’ve expressed often difficult for people. And I think it’s important for us to get comfortable having uncomfortable conversations. And certainly, it sounds like you had to do that at a very early age. And, and it’s a journey, quite frankly, that many of us are still on. But it’s an important one if we wanna unlock trusted relationships that ultimately are mutually beneficial. You know, women and people of color are no strangers to biases and inequities in the workplace. And this includes the world of ballet, but lots of other industries as well. So what progress has been made from your perspective, and what work do you think remains?
Misty:
You know, in all my years of being a part of the, the ballet world it has been so slow. , the conversations that I’ve had since I joined ab b t as a professional have been conversations that a lot of professionals weren’t having. The most progress I’ve seen has been in the last three years with within the pandemic you know, with the rise of Black Lives Matter and this racial reckoning, it’s, I think, surprising to a lot of people who maybe don’t know the ballet world so well. But they took notice and note and started to make real change. I think it was a combination of you know, not having theaters available to us and not be able to share our, our art with the world and kind of go through you know, all of the things that everyone in the world was going through within the pandemic and not having our art to process that I think played a role in it. But over the last three years, I’ve seen companies open up this dialogue and listen to the dancers of color in, in the company in a real way, where it’s not just kind of noise in the background, but
Laysha:
It’s not performative then. It’s not performative. You think it’s actually, you know, empathetic and that empathy is leading to understanding and ultimately action from your
Misty:
Standpoint. I’ve seen the performative work for 20 plus years, and this was real internal work that I’ve seen being done within the classical ballet world. Whether it was conversations I was having with artistic directors and other elite ballet companies all over the world you know, directors of ballet schools of, of major ballet schools or the conversations we were having internally within a b t that made me feel like things, this is a, a shift that I’d never experienced before. We still, of course, have so much work to do, and, and I feel like my, my role at this point and, and how I can make a real impact is beyond what I’m doing on the stage. It’s, it’s having a, having a voice on platforms like this. It’s being able to express the importance of diversity from every angle of the, of the ballet structure. You know, that I think that we’ve often looked at, you know, as we do in Hollywood and television, film, whatever it is that we think like, oh, we see diversity on the screen or on the stage, and that’s enough. But it’s about diversity in boardrooms. It’s about diversity behind, behind the scenes in the education departments and on the artistic staff. It’s, it’s at every level to really make real progress and change.
Laysha:
Absolutely. And, you know, I think you’re getting at how do we make sure that this is more than just a moment, but a movement towards sustainable progress and sustainable change. So I really appreciate you sharing that perspective, and I think it’s useful as we all continue to work on addressing inequities in whatever industry that we are a part of. And you certainly continue to play a really critical role in driving real change with your approach to dance education. So I would love it if you could talk to us a bit more about the work that you’re doing in that space and your Be Bold program. Yeah,
Misty:
Thank you so much for asking me this question, because I am so passionate about this first program through the Misty Copeland Foundation it’s, it’s been so important for me to to use my platform and to use my voice and to use the access that I have to both, you know, black and brown communities as well as the ballet world, and kind of bring them together. How do we create real change within the ballet structure? How do we bring access and opportunity to communities that, that feel that they can’t be a part of the ballet world or that it’s not for them, or that it doesn’t embrace their culture? So the B Bold program is the first in the Misty Copeland Foundation, and it stands for Ballet Explorations.
Ballet Offers Leadership Development so it’s a free ballet class in the afterschool hours. It’s for boys and girls, ages eight to 10, but we’re not turning anyone down. I’m like, if you show up and you wanna take this free ballet class, we are taking you in . But we’re starting out at at community centers and what better way to start out than out of Boys and Girls Club? So we have five Boys and Girls club sites in the Bronx that this program is being offered at, and it just started a couple of weeks ago. So it’s, it’s extremely exciting just to be able to, you know, build the, the curriculum from the ground up the framework. So it’s not your typical ballet class. I wanted this to be a ballet class that was, again, embracing different, embracing different communities.
So whether it’s through the, the types of instruments that are being played in the classroom. So it’s not just recorded music, which is, is often the case in a lot of small ballet schools. It’s not just classical piano music. We have drummers, we have guitarists, we have percussionist, we have different types of music being played depending on what communities we’re in that really can embrace the, their culture. But it’s a ballet class that you know, it’s, it’s ongoing movement. It’s not a lot of stopping and starting and getting that feedback and criticism that we were talking about, but it’s, it’s fun, it’s affordable, and it’s accessible. And I’m really proud and can’t wait to see how it how this year goes.
Laysha:
Oh, I’m so excited to see how this program unfolds. And I, I love the cultural component that you just spoke to as well. You know, using music and other forms of teaching that allow those students to feel seen and heard and valued and welcomed into the field of ballet is really beautiful. So just love this program and your commitment to being of service to the next generation of talent. So thank you very, very much. You know, you’ve benefited from mentors and other caring adults who’ve invested in you, and you know, you are doing the same you know, in fact, you described your mentor Raven Wilkinson as the wind beneath your back, and that’s such a beautiful way to think about that relationship. So can you talk to us further about your relationship with Raven and other mentors as well?
Misty:
Yeah, it’s been, you know, a beautiful journey that I’ve experienced with mentors throughout the course of my life and, and my career. You know, even thinking back to the Boys and Girls Club, which is really, I think the first time that I, I ever even heard that word before. And, and having that support structure of, of tutoring and mentorship within that space, which is why I wanted this program, the program, the Bebo program, to be in a, in a community center that, that does that. But I’ve just had incredible relationships that have been able to allow me to have an understanding and commitment, first of all, with, you know, these intergenerational relationships I think are so important. And and that’s something that I’ve, I’ve always embraced throughout the, the course of my career. I remember Victoria Rowel, who’s an actress and she was about, I know, I remember her too.
Yes, yes. She’s fabulous. She was, started out as a ballerina at American Ballet Theater in their junior company. Yes. And she became, she was probably one of the first black women like mentors that came into my life when I was a brand new company member at American Ballet Theater. And then Susan Fails Hill, who wrote this book. The Wind at My Back with Me was another mentor, an amazing black woman that came into my life that was on the board of trustees at American Ballet Theater. But I’ve had so many of these incredible women that have come in and, and not forced themselves or their opinions, or how to go about things on me. And Raven is just kind of the ultimate culmination of all the mentors in my life. You know, when I, when I met her, I was at a point in my career where I felt like I was a bit at a standstill.
I had reached that level of soloist and had been there for some time and didn’t know how to progress to the next level, and didn’t really feel like I was being seen with the potential of being a principal dancer. And meeting Raven, who was the first and only black ballerina to dance in a major elite company was the ballet, Russ de Montecarlo the first major company to come to America from Europe. And she was a soloist in the company, and this was in the 1950s, and her career was cut short in America because the KKK was threatening her life whenever they would tour through the South. And it was hard for not just her, but the entire company and, and, and their safety. So when I learned of her, her path and, and her career, it was just eye-opening. It was like my purpose became so much bigger.
It became about setting an example, it became about reaching out and being a mentor to the next generation, being a role model to the next generation. But it, it, it just became even more beautiful when I learned that she lived only a block away from me on the Upper West Side. She lived a block away from you. Seriously? Yeah. That’s crazy. Yeah. And we ended up becoming really great friends into not just have a mentor from a or, or, you know, know from afar to appreciate someone’s career and learn from them, but to have her in my life and actually impart these amazing lessons on me. And again, it was never, it never felt like she was sitting down and preaching to me. It were these beautiful stories she would share about her experiences that in the end had a beautiful lesson that I learned. Whether it was how you communicate with other people, like we’re all human beings and we’re all going through something. And never to, you know, she never, you know, played the victim, even though what she experienced was a lot crazier than most of us have experienced. Just the, the beautiful ways in which she nurtured me and taught me was on another level of mentorship that I, than I’ve ever experienced.
Laysha:
Oh, it sounds so beautiful. And you’re brilliant. So I have a feeling she learned a thing or two from you as well, , because, you know, we all ultimately have something that we can learn and something that we can teach. So, yeah, you know, resilience and grace are two topics that you explore in your new book. So let’s start with grace. Now, most of us can’t emulate your physical grace. I know I certainly can’t, but grace isn’t just a physical attribute. So can you talk to us about what grace means to you outside of the ballet studio?
Misty:
Raven is such a beautiful example of grace in a way that is, is outside of the, outside of the stage and, and the studio, but it’s a way that you carry yourself. I think it’s a respect for yourself and for other people. Having a grace in the way you communicate with people, the way you treat people, the way you treat yourself. That’s the way I’ve always looked at grace. So it’s never been something that’s, that’s solely attached to ballet. I know that people think about ballet and they think of grace, but I think the, the women that have been in my life as well as the, the, the ballet technique and the beautiful environments of, you know, when you’re in a studio or you’re in a theater and you’re performing a, a role that have taught me a certain grace and a patience with myself and with other people. There’s so much attached and, and so much within that word that has shaped who I am today.
Laysha:
Oh, fantastic. On the, on the physical side of grace, though, I do find myself trying to sit up a little taller in my seat and think about my posture, because I’m talking to you, . I’m still work. I’m still working on it though. ,
Laysha:
I’m trying, I’m trying, trying, trying to do better every day, like we talked about earlier. Okay, so let’s turn to resilience, which I think is an essential life skill. What have you learned about resilience that’s helped you?
Misty:
You know, I, when I think about resilience, like it goes back to my childhood and, and I think watching, watching my mother be so resilient in, you know, her journey, the, the way that she raised us through all of the ups and downs and the hardships, like she never gave up. You know, she was, she was doing the best she could every day. And I think that that has been instilled in me from a young age, what it is to have resilience. I’ve learned that, you know, like I was saying earlier, like everyone’s going through something in their lives and you know, one person’s lowest like isn’t. You know, I think that we’re all, we’re all working and we’re all trying to do our best and be the best that we can be. And that, you know, resilience has been my way of succeeding by having, by having resilience and understanding that life is a journey. My career is a journey. Being in the studio working towards a goal, it’s a journey, and it’s something that’s beautiful to embrace and be in the moment. And you know, it’s not just about getting to that end result. And I think being present through the journey has given me resilience. Yeah. I don’t know if that, if that makes
Laysha:
Any sense. I love that sense, but I, I love that. And, and it’s a reminder, I think, to appreciate the journey, not just the destination. Right. And, and I often talk about a life and leadership learning journey, because ultimately I think that’s the journey that we’re all on. And you beautifully articulated that I think and, you know, the Conference for Women is all about women supporting women, and I think your perspective on grace and resilience is something that we can all use. What are some of the other ways that you think women can best help each other?
Misty:
I think that it’s really kind of like stepping back and getting out of our own way to, you know, feel that, well, I think number one, it’s, it’s really not only up to us, it’s, it’s the, it’s the, you know, society. It’s the structures that we exist in that I think have to grow and adapt and evolve in order for us to have a real chance at even being in a position to be able to support one another. You know, I think it’s having those conversations and and being honest about our, our experiences as women. But, you know, for me, like as a black woman, it’s, it’s often difficult because companies say like, we are, we have one, so we don’t, we don’t need another. So we end up competing with each other. And I think that it’s important that we kind of come together in a, in a sisterhood and and try and break those barriers.
I, I mean, I guess it’s up to us because you know, we’re still waiting for society to catch up and give us, you know, fair opportunity and not pin us against one another. And so, you know, I think that it’s, it’s not comparing yourself to the women that you’re around, but learning from one another and supporting one another. You know, for me, like looking at the next generation and having setting an example by, by leading for the young, young dancers that I’m around, young women to know that we are there for each other and we don’t have to compete to get a certain position that if we embrace one another, we learn from our experiences that that’s the best outcome.
Laysha:
Oh, I love that. We need to lean on and lift up one another. Send the elevator back down. Yes. For each other. Yes. They’re putting more seats around the table and, you know, and if there aren’t enough tables, we need to build our own damn tables. Yes. . I love that. And so it’s certainly up to us and our allies to change the systems, the structures, and the policies that sometimes weren’t created, quite frankly, for us to be as successful as we deserve to be. And as you said earlier, it’s about opportunity and access. But it’s also about action. So appreciate you calling us to you know, make sure that we are claiming our power and then empowering others through our words and our actions. Really, really love that. Ooh, girl. Misty, I could talk with you for hours, but unfortunately we’re nearing the end of our time. And as I mentioned at the start of our conversation, you are a new mom. Congratulations. And so, as you navigate motherhood and being a working mom, what are some of the ways that you renew, reset and reconnect?
Misty:
Yeah. You know, it’s so interesting thinking about thinking about this question. Because all the ways that I renew and, and reset, and they’re all kind of intertwined and connected. So like, the way that I kind of reset when it comes to my work and my career is like through family. So, you know, it’s, it’s taking my, my baby boy Jackson, and like and, and really giving my attention and focus to him and love and, and nurturing. But at the same time, when I need that reset from family, it’s like I’m going into the studio and I’m having me time and I’m focusing on my body, and I’m focusing on kind of rebalancing physically and emotionally, like who I am so that I can be full at home. So it’s like this constant, like ping pong, a bag and forth. I, in the house, I’m refilling to go back in the studio, in the studio. I’m refilling so I can go back home. But I think it’s, it’s just important to for me not to like, forget myself and, and, and who I am in, in all of the different kind of aspects of my life.
Laysha:
Mm, amen. Amen. You know, I often say self-care isn’t selfish. Right. It’s essential. It’s absolutely essential.
Misty:
Yes.
Laysha:
Misty, this conversation has been an absolute gift that I know we’ve all fully received. So thank you. You are an inspiring trailblazer who lives and leads with purpose and with humanity. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Misty:
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It was such an honor.
The post Inspiration and Lessons with Misty Copeland appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
This episode features an extraordinary conversation between award-winning author Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie (Americanah, Notes on Grief) and Target’s EVP and chief external engagement officer, Laysha Ward.
Spoken or written, words are a powerful vehicle to share knowledge, offer perspectives and influence others. They can be truths, facts, or alternatively, they can perpetuate negative thoughts, stereotypes, even fake news.
Recorded at the December 2022 Massachusetts Conference for Women, these two women explore Chimamanda’s journey to offer perspective around the power of words, acknowledging differences, and being fully inclusive. Learn how to avoid rushing to judgment and to truly understand opinions — even those that strongly differ from your own.
Our Guest: Chimamanda Ngozi AdichieChimamanda Ngozi Adichie is an award-winning author born in Enugu, Nigeria. She graduated summa cum laude from Eastern Connecticut State University with a degree in communication and political science. She has a master’s degree in African studies from Yale University, and in creative writing from Johns Hopkins University. She was awarded a Hodder fellowship at Princeton University and a fellowship at the Radcliffe Institute of Harvard University. She received a MacArthur Fellowship, popularly known as the “genius grant.” She has received honorary doctorate degrees from 15 prestigious universities and colleges. Adichie’s work has been translated into over thirty languages. Her first novel, Purple Hibiscus, won the Commonwealth Writers’ Prize, and her second novel, Half of a Yellow Sun, won the Orange Prize. Her novel Americanah won the US National Book Critics Circle Award, and was named one of The New York Times Top Ten Best Books of 2013. She has delivered two landmark TED talks: The Danger of A Single Story and We Should All Be Feminists, which started a worldwide conversation about feminism. Her most recent work, Notes On Grief, an essay about losing her father, was published in 2021. She was named one of TIME Magazine’s 100 Most Influential People in the World in 2015. In 2017, Fortune Magazine named her one of the World’s 50 Greatest Leaders. Adichie divides her time between the United States and Nigeria, where she leads an annual creative writing workshop.
Guest Host: Laysha WardLaysha Ward is an accomplished C-suite executive with thirty years of leadership experience at Target. In 2017, Ward was named executive vice president, chief external engagement officer, overseeing Target’s enterprise-wide approach to engage and deepen relationships with cross-sector stakeholders to drive positive business and community impact. In 1991, Ward began her career with Target as a member of the store sales and management team of Marshall Fields in Chicago. In 2000, she was named director of community relations and promoted to vice president of community relations and Target Foundation in 2003. In 2008, President Bush nominated, and the U.S. Senate confirmed Ward would serve on the board of directors of the Corporation for National and Community Service, the nation’s largest grantmaker for volunteering and service, which she continued to serve as board chair under the Obama Administration. Later that year, she was promoted to president of community relations and the Target Foundation. She serves on the Aspen Institute Latinos and Society Advisory Board and the Stanford Center for Longevity Advisory Council, is a member of the Executive Leadership Council, the Economic Clubs of New York and Chicago, Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, The Links, and serves on the boards of Greater MSP, the Minnesota Orchestra, and the Northside Achievement Zone, as well as United Airlines and Denny’s Corporation for-profit board of directors. She received a bachelor’s degree from Indiana University, master’s degree from the University of Chicago, and an honorary Doctorate of Laws from the University of Minnesota’s Humphrey School of Public Affairs. She and her husband, Bill, reside in Minneapolis, MN.
Women Amplified Host: Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources: Website: Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie * Get FREE shipping on Adichie’s books from our partner bookstore, BookPeople: Americanah | We Should All Be Feminists*
More from Women Amplified NEW YEAR/ NEW PROBLEMS TO SOLVE! Tell us what you’re dealing with at work or at home and you could be paired with an expert for an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question” on Women Amplified*! Learn more. * Sign up for our email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops. * Join us in person — or online — at the 2023 California Conference for Women this Women’s History Month. Enjoy powerhouse speakers, multiple networking opportunities, fun interactive exhibits, and a brand-new in-person/ online hybrid experience. Learn more at caconferenceforwomen.org.
Episode TranscriptLaysha Ward:
Chimamanda, it’s such a gift to have you here today. You know, I share your passion for storytelling and the power of words. Now I often say that when we share our stories, when we speak our truth, we learn to celebrate our dimensions of difference and the things that we have in common. What can we do to encourage more people, especially women, to share their stories, our stories?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
So you know, we know from statistics that women read men and women and men read men. I think one of the things we need to do is get, try and get everyone to read women’s stories. So push women’s stories, talk about women’s stories, but also tell women that it’s okay to tell their stories. I think there’s a lot about the way that women are socialized that they sometimes think they shouldn’t occupy so much space. They shouldn’t talk too much about themselves. They should sort of keep themselves back. And and so I think there’s a kind of, that we need to find ways to make it ordinary and normal for women to tell their stories. I think that women’s stories are undertold and under read and underappreciated. And I sometimes think that maybe many of the problems we have would be, and this is maybe wishful thinking, but that many of the problems we have would be if not eliminated, reduced if more people read women’s stories.
Laysha Ward:
How do you practice the kind of listening that drives true understanding? Yes, we’ve talked about needing to read more and having it be a broad variety of our stories, but how do we ensure that people are actually listening to the stories as we want them to be delivered and, and taken in?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
I think maybe I can, I can speak for myself, which is silence when I really, I think it’s so important to be silent when someone else is talking. And I’ve, I’ve found that it’s quite difficult for a lot of people to do. So people are very, very quick to want to sort of, and it’s, you know, it’s very sweet. It’s well-meaning. People want to give their opinion, but often I find that they’re not really listening. What they’re waiting for is for whoever is speaking to stop so that they can say something , right? And, and so for me it’s, it’s, it’s really important to have a kind of, you know, kind of considered silence. When people are talking to me, I’m quiet as I’m listening, like I just, I’m completely quiet and, you know, I want to hear what they’re saying before I can actually say something.
And so I’m not thinking about what I’m going to say, I’m thinking about what they are saying, and it kind of seems almost self-evident and obvious. But, but it’s, I think it’s difficult for a number of people. So I would say we need to practice what I would call a kind of a kind of present silence when people are speaking and even when we read, you know, life is now so quick. You know, time is in such short supply for so many people that even reading is something we do without that kind of considered silence. People read fast and often miss things. And and it’s, it’s kind of a pet peeve of mine when someone, you know, I have someone read something and then I I I’m talking to them and I realize, wait, did you not even read that part?
Laysha Ward:
You know, I’ve certainly experienced that as well. I love how you frame it up by being silent and being comfortable in that silence, I think is something that’s difficult for many of us. Certainly difficult for me, and active listening requires active silence. Really appreciate that perspective. So, following up on that from another standpoint, how do you respond in the moment when it’s clear that someone isn’t listening to you?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Oh, it depends on the time of the month.
Laysha Ward:
Say more about that.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
So if I’m, if I’m not in a good place, I respond by using very sharp language. If I’m in a better place, you know, I say things like, actually my family and I have a joke, which we call the crocodile joke, right? And that’s because when I’m talking to members of my family, my husband, my siblings, and sometimes also my very close friends, when I sense that they’re not listening to me, I say something and I include the word crocodile because that’s just the most absurd thing, right? And if they then turn and they’re like, wait, what crocodile, then I know they’re listening Crocodile
Laysha Ward:
What? Crocodile. So they’re, I’m, I’m about to cry crocodile tears because you made me laugh so hard.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
So I do the crocodile thing because I’m trying to, you know, trip them up. Are you really listening to me? So I’m sort of talking about, I don’t know some, some, I don’t know, government policy, , and I feel like they’re not listening. Then I say, and then the crocodile came out.
Laysha Ward:
I’m going to use that. When the crocodile came out, I, it’s definitely something I’m gonna pick up on after our conversation. You know, communication is a two-way street. It requires patience and discipline and, and definitely listening so that we know that we’re actually understanding, truly understanding what someone is trying to share with us. And I think when we practice this sort of patience and discipline we can gain a deeper understanding of one another. And you’ve also just introduced some humor into the conversation, which I think is always helpful when we are trying to communicate with people as well.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Yes, absolutely. I think humor is, I think humor is an essential part of being human, you know, and it’s something that we all have in common. It cuts across cultures, cuts across, you know, we all laugh, but I also think you know, just, just to sort of add to what you said that we, the listener needs to make an effort, but I think the speaker also needs to make an effort. I think, you know, I think the speaker has a responsibility to be clear, to be engaging as much as possible. And so when, when people are not listening to me, my first thought is, alright, you’re just not listening to me. My second thought is maybe I’m not telling the story in the best way. You know, maybe I’m kind of boring , right? So then you, you need to sort of think about how you’re telling your story. Yes. Because you do have a responsibility to tell the story in the best possible way.
Laysha Ward:
Oh, I love that too. There’s a shared accountability, both in how you’re sharing the information as well as how one is listening. I often talk about the importance of listening to learn and understand versus just listening to win or fix. But, but you are going even deeper and talking about this idea of shared accountability in that communication, which I think is incredibly powerful. So thank you for that.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
I really like that listening to learn and fix. I would argue that there’s a gendered component there, but maybe we shouldn’t talk about that. No.
Laysha Ward:
Well, well, let’s, let’s build on that then. Let’s talk about the gender component in that. What would you, what would you add to that conversation?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
I think it just seems to me that men are more likely to kind of want to fix things and not in the end not really hearing what’s being said. And that may be because I think, and again, obviously we’re, we’re generalizing because they’re always exceptions, but I think if, if I were to suggest to men ways in in which they could improve their listening, one of the things I would say is don’t think about fixing it for now, ,
Laysha Ward:
We can come back to that, but to sort of focus initially on listening to learn and understand in service of a future solution.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Mm-Hmm. . Well, I think, I think really in general listening should be about that, you know, that that should be the goal that we want to understand really and hopefully learn of, of course. But, but we need to understand, I mean, I think that before you can agree or disagree with somebody, you have to actually understand what they are saying. And I, I sometimes feel that what’s happening today sort of in this sort of wall that we live in, where social media is such a, a central part of the way that we have public conversations is that often people actually haven’t heard what’s being said, right? They actually haven’t understood what’s being
Laysha Ward:
Said, or they only see one part of the story, perhaps using your words, a single story, a story that’s being sort of crafted for that particular platform.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Hmm. And I, and I think, you know, that I’ve talked often about the reason I think a single story is dangerous is that it’s not complete, right? And you, you can’t, you can’t if you’re making a decision based on, on incomplete information, then that decision in itself just becomes fundamentally flawed.
Laysha Ward:
Absolutely. That applies in our professional lives as well as our personal lives. And so that’s a really important point to get the full story, which is often complex and layered
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
More difficult. It’s more diffi. I think single stories are easier.
Laysha Ward:
Hmm. Absolutely. You’ve talked about the importance of using the BS or bullshit detector on yourself as well as on others. So tell us more about how we can apply this to our day-to-day interactions with colleagues and others.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
well, maybe with colleagues, maybe we shouldn’t, maybe we should find a more colleague friendly expression. Maybe bullshit detector won’t work, but
Laysha Ward:
. But, but, but it is authentic and real and to the point. So for now, until we rebrand it, let’s just go with the BS detector and talk about ways that we can apply it in our day-to-day interactions.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
You know what I think, I think fundamentally my my case for having a, a good BS detector is really about wanting and, and feeling that we must insist on authenticity and truth and realness. So I, I think it really just means if you feel that someone is bullshitting you to just say, so, I do that a lot. Sometimes it’s uncomfortable, you know, someone says to me, oh, I love your books. And I’m thinking, actually, you haven’t read them often, I can tell, you know, and I’m like, you know, thank you for your love, but you haven’t read them. And then I say, I would suggest that you read first. You know, I, I suggest a book for them to read. And I think it just makes for, I think it makes for a more I don’t know, a more, when we’re not bullshitting one another, then I think that we just live in a way that is more, and I don’t want to sound sort of very morally superior, but I think we live in a way that is more authentic.
And I think it’s so important. It’s, it’s just so in some ways that you’re cutting away the crap, you know? And, and I think life, life is complicated and life is difficult enough. We really don’t need someone just bullshitting us. And, and so really, I would say find ways to name it. And people have different styles, so it doesn’t have to be my direct way of saying, look, that’s bullshit. It could be . I don’t know. People find their ways of communicating, but I think as long as you let the person know, and I think in general, people who are well-meaning sometimes appreciate it because then they feel that they can be more authentic themselves, right? So the person who says, oh, I loved your books, and I’m like, mm-hmm. You haven’t read any, suddenly then feels more comfortable to say, actually, I don’t really read a lot, but I’ve listened to your talks. You know, that’s happened quite a bit. So I think in some ways you also let people not feel the pressure to be something that they’re not.
Laysha Ward:
I think you’re trying to create a safe space to be honest and build a trusted relationship and a trusting learning environment. And instead of just calling people out for the sake of calling people out, you’re actually welcoming them in, in a way that ideally will make them better and you better in a way that, you know, isn’t a shame and blame. It’s really about, you know, opening up a more trusted environment to have real talk.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
I really love that. I love the idea of welcoming them in. I really love that. Yes.
Laysha Ward:
So, girl, this is so helpful. I’m sure I’m going to be able to apply it. And you know, we have another practical question that we received from the audience. And she says, my male boss talks a lot about celebrating and championing women. For some reason, though, it actually comes across as patronizing. So she’s wondering if she should give in feedback, and if so, what should she say? Which is such a great question.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Hmm. It is. See, in some ways I think it’s similar to, to kind of what I talked about that, and this happens a lot, usually around International Women’s Day when people just pop up and start talking about how women should be adored and celebrated, and it’s, yeah. And sometimes I, I just, I’m very close to being nauseated, but that, that’s I, I think how to do that, I mean, obviously it would depend on what sort of person her boss is but whether I think it’s a useful thing to give feedback about that. Yes, I think so, because I, I do also feel very strongly that most of the time when people, when men say things that women find condescending or patronizing or offensive, most of the time men don’t actually even know that it’s offensive or why it’s offensive, you know?
I think maybe what I would say is to ask him what he means, you know, so we should celebrate and champion women. What does that mean? Does it mean that you, are you comfortable with having a woman be your superior? If women are to be celebrated and champion, there’s something about it that kind of suggests the power difference because, you know, you celebrate and champion people who are kind of beneath you in a way, or maybe that’s not how he means it, but I, but I would say ask him, you know, so just say to him, give me three examples of how, what you mean by championing women.
Laysha Ward:
Yeah. I love that you’re talking.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
And then if he, and if, and if he gave the examples, then she could then say, well, can you see how in this second example, it’s actually really condescending? Yeah, I think I’m a believe. Yeah. Sorry, go
Laysha Ward:
On. I’m just gonna say, I think you’re asking or suggesting rather that she asks clarifying questions. Assume positive intent and ask a clarifying question that really allow her boss to be more clear in what it is that he means by celebrating and championing women so that they can have a more honest and direct conversation.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
And to do it. And to start off, you know, start off assuming that he doesn’t mean harm. He might, and if he does, you will find out as the conversation progresses, . But, you know, just I think saying to him, and then again, I think, you know, this is why I believe so much in stories, and often I say to people, let’s go to story. So right, somebody says something and people start to argue, and I’m thinking, all right, let’s use examples. Let’s, let’s use a story. Because often it’s so much more clarifying. And so the examples that he gives her might make her see that actually he doesn’t really mean it in a way that’s condescending, or it might make her see that he’s so bloody patronizing. And then she can sort of call him out and say, you know what? This is just not okay. Yeah,
Laysha Ward:
Exactly. You know, it’s to, to your point, assume positive intent, and then you’ll be able to ascertain if it’s perhaps an unconscious bias or a conscious bias. But, but at least you’ll know where to begin the dialogue with better information. Great, great, great point. So thank you for that. Building on that, there’s a related question that another audience member submitted. She says, I support gender equality, but don’t call myself a feminist because it feels too much of a statement. How can I be a feminist without the negative labels? There’s a lot to unpack in that question, so I would be curious to hear what you would say.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Well, I would say to her, you’re a feminist. Own it, you know, own it. And when I started talking about feminism, I knew, of course that feminism is such a contested ward, especially in the West, where it has a long history. And, you know, feminists are often seen as, as you know, women who hate men or who don’t shave or that kind of thing. And, and, and for me, I, I then kind of had this need desire to kind of reclaim the ward that in the dictionary, it’s, it’s, it’s simple. It’s the belief that men and women should have equal political, social, economic rates. And if you believe that, then you’re a feminist. And, you know, sometimes I worry that women are often too careful. I mean, I suppose the question I would ask is, why is it too much of a statement?
I mean, what is it that you are afraid of? Yeah. you know, it’s easy to maybe think, I don’t want to alienate men by calling myself a feminist, because there’s some men who would be alienated by that. And I think to that, I would say a man who’s alienated by the idea of feminism is the kind of man you don’t want to be with. So, you know, own it. And, and the reason I think it’s also important is that we need a ward around which to rally. So if women are saying, I’m not a feminist, but I really believe in everything that feminism stands for, then we can’t even advocate for things because we cannot then say we’re, we have this word feminism, and these are the goals that that feminism has, and we want to pursue them. If we don’t have the language, if we don’t have the word to to describe something, then we can’t really advocate for that thing.
Laysha Ward:
I love this notion of claiming it and naming it and putting words around it in order to embrace it in a way that allows us ultimately to take steps towards fulfilling it. And so the way that you talk about and are framing a response around feminism is often how I think about racism, which for many is difficult to talk about as well. So really appreciate the way that you’ve helped us think about that. And I’m definitely gonna be thinking through how I use it and hope that our audience finds that equally as valuable. I appre appreciate the vulnerability in the next question from one of our audience members as well. And she says, my company has employee resource groups for women of color, people with disabilities, l GT q plus as a white woman, I wanna support my peers, but I don’t wanna do the wrong thing. What’s the best way to navigate this?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Who? I don’t know, . .
Laysha Ward:
Come on, girl. You can say something. You’ve, I know you’ve got something .
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
I think , see this is I really, actually really appreciate that question because I think it comes from a place of it comes from a place that I really admire and respect wanting to do better, wanting to do well, and, and saying I don’t know how. Right. Which I, it would be lovely if, if, if we all could do that. I think maybe the suggestion I would make would be to ask. So, so in other words, so I mean, I can’t really, I don’t think I can really talk with much I think I can talk about race with more sort of confidence because of personal experience, and I can talk about disability and and sexual orientation and, and gender identity and all of those things. So, so for me with race, if a, if a white woman says to me, I want to be supportive of anti-racism movements, and I don’t know how usually I say, well start by reading.
And I say that because I think it’s important to, to, to understand what it is that you are, you are advocating for, right? And when I say start by reading, I mean just understand what it, what it has meant and what it continues to mean to be a black person in the United States. And, and I think also sort of talk to black people. You, I have friends who are so well-meaning and so fierce, and they’re sometimes making arguments where I’m thinking, I’m the black person and I don’t even agree with you on this . Right? Like, I just think you’re wrong. Right? Right. But, but it’s well-meaning. And they’re just sort of like, yo, yo, we’re fighting racism. And I’m just sitting there thinking, mm. So, so yeah, I would say talk to black people. And it also is very useful to sort of step back in certain places and let black people speak.
There are times when I say that the white friend needs to say certain things. There are things that white people can get away with saying in this country that black people cannot. And so in those cases, I think if, if, so, I have a joke with a white friend of mine who sometimes we’re talking about race, and, and I say to her, well, all right, now you need to talk because these people will not listen to me. You need to talk now. You know, you need to use your white privilege for good. But there are other times when I think well meaning white people, that there is sometimes the risk of kind of usurping the conversation, taking it over, making it about sort of the white goodness. And I, I don’t think that’s a very useful thing. So, so I’m not sure, yeah, I’ve kind of rambled a bit, but I would say, you know, talk to people, talk to black people.
And also I would say learn like, and, and I don’t mean learn, you know, young people now say things like, go and educate yourself. And I don’t even know what they mean, but , but I can tell you what I mean by learning, which is read history. You know, I would say I could ma maybe recommend three books because I think it’s important to have context. And I even speak for myself because when I came to the us now almost, I don’t know, 25 years ago to go to college, I didn’t really understand race in America because I was Nigerian. And in Nigeria, we do not have race as an identity. Yes. Do it different. Yeah. And so I came from a place where my identity was IK and Catholic, so, you know, ethnicity and, and religion. And then I came here and suddenly I had this thing where I was the black girl.
Cause I was in Connecticut, which was, you know, not terribly black . And so I, I had to learn and I learned by reading, and then suddenly I understood things. So suddenly I understood, oh, so that’s what that what, what a Milan joke was about. And I understood, oh, so that’s why in certain contexts, fried chicken is offensive. I did not understand that first. And so that’s why I say it’s really important to read, you know, just really read before you go off, you know, sort of on the rallies to do the rah rah rah or fighting racism thing.
Laysha Ward:
Well, thank you for that. No, it, it requires building empathy and understanding and, and then knowing what to do with it, I think gets at your point around sometimes you need to be the messenger. And other times that isn’t the appropriate role for you to play. So, you know, to the question ask, you know, being a great ally, which is what she’s trying to be, is, is multi-layered and isn’t a one size fits all sort of journey. But, but educating oneself, building empathy, trying to sort of make understanding a part of your daily journey allows you, I think ultimately to apply what you’ve learned in ways that help us all figure out what our roles are in those conversations and in the actions that pursue as a result of it. I, I just think we can’t let our fear of saying or doing the wrong thing stop us from doing anything at all, which is often what happens.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Bravo, I think you’ve just, I just think that’s perfectly said. And, and you know, you said something about layered, and I, I, and I think it’s important also to be comfortable with the idea that it’s not going to be simple or it, it is layered, it is complex and, and we shouldn’t expect it to be otherwise, because how can you deal with I think for example, that having learned American history, that really the basis of this country is anti-black racism. I, I believe that, and I, and I can, I can make the case for it, right? And it’s such a complicated thing that’s so deeply rooted, so that in talking about it and trying to combat it, it cannot be easy. It’s not an easy thing. And so I really love this idea. And you put it so well, we shouldn’t be so terrified of saying the wrong thing that we don’t say anything at all, because it is likely that we will say the wrong thing. Yeah. But I think what, what’s pos what, what’s important is, you know, are we learning? Are we when we say that wrong thing and we ask questions, do we then, you know, hear what’s been said? And I think that the way that public sort of conversations happen now, people are so scared of, of saying the wrong thing, that they just stay silent. And it worries me that that real movements for change are now sort of almost being sabotaged by people’s fear. Yeah,
Laysha Ward:
I would, you shouldn’t be, I would agree with that. As we discussed earlier, sometimes there is a moment to be silent, but there are also times when we need to have our voices heard. And, you know, a situation we all face from time to time that you and I have just started to talk about has to do with missteps in our communication. So how do you recover when you say the wrong thing?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Well, by saying, sorry. Yeah.
Laysha Ward:
, yes. Amen to that. I think
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
That, I think, I think there’s such power in a genuine apology. But I also think that even the idea of apologies have become just, you know, people just think, you, you, there’s, there’s kind of a cynicism now where people just sort of say, oh, I’m a apologizing. But I mean, really genuine apology. But also I think when you, when I can speak for myself, for example when I’ve said things that I realize were wrong, , often I’ve realized because somebody has made me see that they’re wrong. And and by the way, I have to tell you, I’ve had to practice this because my, you know, you need to practice it, but there’s a kind of grace in saying thank you to the person who’s made you see that you were wrong. Right. which means a kind of willingness to accept that I don’t know everything, right?
I think I know a lot , but I don’t think I know everything. . and, and I think, you know, there’s a kind of again, it sometimes feels to me that in the end it’s about intent. Like what’s the point, right? I, I ask this a lot about many things. What’s the point of having conversations? What’s the point of talking about social justice? You know, I say to myself, what’s the point of talking about racism, feminism, homophobia, what’s the point? Right? And of course, the point is to contribute, to ending it, ending these things that we think are wrong. And if that is the case, then in having conversations, the intent is to get somebody to understand you and to be understood by that person. And so when I say something that I think is wrong, I, my thinking is, well, what’s the point?
So what I’ve said is getting in the way of achieving my point, right? Which means that I need to backtrack, you know, apologize, figure out what the real thing is, what the right thing is. And I think in general, we should maybe start by just, I mean, I, and this is the thing for me, being a fiction writer, I kind of I, I enjoy, I, I celebrate, I luxate in the fact that we are not perfect. Yes, yes. And we’re not, I mean, people who read a lot of fiction know this, we’re human, we’re not perfect. And so I think just starting with that as premise, it just feels to me that a lot will be better. When I teach fiction, I usually start by telling my students, we’re going to go around and you’re going to tell me two horrible things you’ve done. And then at some point, sometimes it gets really, you know, interesting. And then I say, all right, tell us two horrible things that a friend of yours has done if you don’t want to talk about yourself. But it’s really . It’s really about starting off with our flawed ness as premise.
Laysha Ward:
I like to say we are perfectly imperfect. And you know, I think it’s really important as we’ve been discussing to know and remember that we’re all human and make mistakes, but that we can learn from those mistakes. I think that certainly is the key takeaway. Thank you so much, Chimamandamanda. I could talk to you for hours.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Thank you, Laysha. You’ve been fantastic.
Laysha Ward:
Incredibly fortunate to have had this time with you, and I know that I’ve personally benefited from it and know that our community here has as well from your stories and your wisdom. And I hope that we have the opportunity to reconnect in the future. Cause it’s certainly been a gift.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Thank you, Laysha. Thank you. And I really do hope that we have a chance to, I hope our paths will cross
Laysha Ward:
Again. As do I, as do I. Take care.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie:
Thank you. Take care.
The post Power of Our Words and Actions appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
We’re catching up on some rest this month, and we hope you are, too! We’ll be resurfacing some of our favorite recent episodes all month to provide an inspiring soundtrack to your R&R. We’ll be back with new speakers and new ideas in January!
People don’t leave companies, they leave managers. This means that your ability to develop a highly effective and respectful working relationship with your boss is key to your job satisfaction.
But what happens when your boss is a roadblock making it feel impossible to function and succeed as a team? In this episode of “That’s a Good Question,” our listener finally reached a tipping point after four years with a boss who struggles daily to manage the team, projects, emails, and meetings.
Through active problem solving, practical advice and shared experiences, we will offer tips and tricks for managing up, addressing personality differences that impact manager/staff relationships, and effective strategies for better working with your boss.
Guest Expert: Mary AbbajayMary Abbajay is the president of Careerstone Group, LLC, a full service organizational and leadership development consultancy that delivers leading-edge talent and organizational development solutions to business and government. As a sought-after author, speaker, consultant, and trainer, Abbajay helps clients develop the strategies, skills, and sensibilities needed for success in the 21st century. She is a frequent expert contributor for television, radio, and print publications in the greater Washington area where she provides practical leadership and career advice. Abbajay currently serves on the Market President’s board of BB&T Bank, and is a past chairman of the board for Leadership Greater Washington. In 2010, she was named as one of Washington Business Journal’s Women Who Mean Business, and she was a Smart CEO Brava Award recipient in 2017. Abbajay is the author of Managing Up: How to Move Up, Win at Work, and Succeed with Any Type of Boss. @maryabbjay
Our Host: Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources: Get free shipping on Abbajay’s Managing Up: How to Move Up, Win at Work, and Succeed with Any Type of Boss* — and other speaker titles — when you shop our page at partner bookstore, BookPeople. * Join us in person — or online — at the 2023 California Conference for Women this Women’s History Month. Enjoy powerhouse speakers, multiple networking opportunities, fun interactive exhibits, and a brand-new in-person/ online hybrid experience. Learn more at caconferenceforwomen.org.
More from Women Amplified Do you have a problem? We want to help you solve it! Tell us about your challenge here and you could be a featured guest on an upcoming “That’s A Good Question” episode! * Sign up for the Women Amplified* email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops.
Photo credit: iStock.com/Hispanolistic
Episode Transcript:Celeste Headlee:
So, Lynn first give us an idea of what kind of work you do and what kind of workplace you work in.
Lynn:
So, I am in the pharmaceutical industry and I work in quality assurance for document control and quality systems, which also does include the training aspect of things.
Celeste Headlee:
Okay. And your issue essentially, is that your manager isn’t functioning as efficiently as they can. Is that accurate?
Lynn:
Yes. Most definitely.
Celeste Headlee:
Okay. So, give me some specifics here. What is going wrong?
Lynn:
Truthfully, I feel that she is in a state of … It’s an unstructured and undefined environment. So, unstructured in that the team, we’re right now we’re a group of four. We were five at one point. So, we’re a group of four. There’s no specific, aside from knowing that I handled the doc control side and one of my counterparts handles the training side, there’s not a lot of definition in who’s doing what, structure of projects, meetings. We have a lot of last minute ones-off five minutes before a meeting, “Hey, can you jump on this meeting with me?” And then you’re asked to drive the meeting without knowing … Yeah. Yeah. There’s been times I have to remind her, “Are you jumping on this meeting.” Or, “Hey, did you see this email?” The responses are typically, “Wait, what meeting? What email? I have 4,000 emails.”
Celeste Headlee:
Okay.
Lynn:
Yeah. She’s very involved, which is a wonderful thing, but sometimes too much is not good. A lot of external, both personal and clubs or activities, as well as everything internal that she could possibly join, she joins. I am looking at it as maybe it’s a distraction. There’s been times I’ve been on meetings, addressing situations, and she says, “I have to go.” And when look at the calendar, I see it’s one of the club meetings. And I literally said the last time I said, “Oh, is it this club?”
Lynn:
“Yes, yes.”
Lynn:
I said, “Oh, I have that on my calendar too. But I don’t have time to join it because I have to figure this out.”
Lynn:
The response was, “I got to go, I have to go.” And jumped on the other meeting.
Celeste Headlee:
So, it sounds like she is just taking on too much so that she cannot take care of her core responsibilities.
Lynn:
Right. And I think my … Let me apologize in that I probably should have started it off by saying she is a quality systems manager with no quality systems experience. She has vocalized to numerous people multiple times.
Celeste Headlee:
Okay. And have you spoken with her about any of this?
Lynn:
Absolutely. I’ve asked for structure. I’ve asked for, let’s go through all of our projects, let’s you and I work together to build this team, we know what’s going on. I even went and checked your … We did one of those evaluations of her personality. I said, “I even went so far as to go into your office, look at your blocks to try to figure out a better way that maybe I can communicate to you.” And I said, “At this point, I don’t know how else I can ask for structure in any other way, shape, or form.”
Celeste Headlee:
And what was her response?
Lynn:
She takes it well, she apologizes. “I definitely want to work with you and try to create this environment.” I explain to her, I am a very structured person. I like structure. I like process. I’m willing to admit that maybe I have to loosen up on that a little bit. I have no problems doing that. But we have to start somewhere. And then we fall right back into the same process.
Celeste Headlee:
Okay. So, it sounds like chaos. Let’s bring in our expert because I feel like I have a good, at least a beginning, sense of what’s going on. And we have exactly the right person for you. Mary Abbajay. Her book is called, Managing Up: How to Move Up When At Work And Succeed with Any Type of Boss. She’s the president of career stone group. And she’s got 20 years, at least 20 years, of experience in this area. So Mary, this is your wheelhouse, is it not?
Mary Abbajay:
Oh my gosh. I am just sitting here biting my tongue. So, this is such a classic case of managing up. So, I’m just going to dive right in if that’s okay.
Celeste Headlee:
Yeah, absolutely.
Mary Abbajay:
So first of all, Lynn, I want to say you have my deepest empathy on this situation. I too am a very structured person. Chaos, impulsivity, scattered braininess drives me cray cray. And so before I give you some kind of tough love and some advice that is going to be very pragmatic, let me say this would drive me to distraction. So, a couple of things that I just want to recap that I think we know.
Mary Abbajay:
One is that her style of management isn’t your cup of tea. It’s a little scattered. It’s not very structured and it is not really working for you. Okay, is that right?
Lynn:
Absolutely.
Mary Abbajay:
Okay. And I believe that you have talked with her boss about her style management. Is that right?
Lynn:
I did. I mentioned it. I brought it to his attention about three years ago and I was greeted with, “Well, I understand. She’s got a lot on her plate.”
Mary Abbajay:
So, what we know then is that her bosses are okay with her performance in some way, shape or form because they’re not going to do anything about it, right? And so we know that. And here’s the other thing that we know based on your story, that she’s not really going to change who she is. So, given that reality, we’ve got to figure out a way that you can work with this person, whether she’s going to change or not. So, she’s not a bad person, right? She’s not like a tyrant or a narcissist or a gaslighter or a bully or a freakshow like that, is she?
Lynn:
Absolutely not. Love, love, love her. Wonderful person outside of work.
Mary Abbajay:
All right. So, here’s my tough love for you. When we are dealing with a boss, a boss that doesn’t work for us, we have to realize that they’re not going to change who they are. We can make requests for how we want them to manage us or interact with us. And it sounds like you’ve done that. And like any request, some people aren’t capable of making them.
Mary Abbajay:
So, when you’re faced with a situation like this, I want you to think about it, that you have three different choices. This is what the Buddhists tell us. Your first choice is to really just deeply accept it. Accept who she is, accept her flaws, and just be okay with it. Don’t get all wrapped around the act. That’s who she is, that’s who she is, and so finding a way then to actually be okay with that. That’s choice number one and that can be really hard.
Mary Abbajay:
Choice number two is to find something that you can change about the situation. And since we can’t change her, we’ve got to figure out what you can change either in your attitude towards her, or in the way you interact with her, to make the relationship work for you, for her, and for the organization.
Mary Abbajay:
And the third choice that you have with something like this is quite frankly to leave the situation. And that is to find a different position in the company or to find a different job because we know the management of the organization isn’t going to do anything about her style of managing, and we know that she isn’t going to change. So, it really then comes up to you. What do you want to do? Do you want to find a way to work with her? Can you accept the way she is? Or do you feel like you are at the point now where you need to leave?
Lynn:
So, I’ve voiced my opinion about looking for other position within the company to both her, and at the time, her manager. We had a little bit of a structure change, an interim, so her manager stepped up and another manager stepped in to be her interim boss. So, I’ve definitely voiced that I want to look for something else.
Lynn:
I’ve also just recently spoke with my counterpart, who’s been very nervous about being vocal and I’ve gotten him to a point where I said, “Look, maybe if we get together,” I said, “And this is not an attack. This is not, we’re trying to get her fired. We just want to make things better. Maybe if we both go in with a united front, discussing the issues, giving bullet point examples, maybe we can go to our interim manager who does seem to want to make changes, present this scenario and say, look, how can we restructure this team for better outcomes?”
Mary Abbajay:
Yeah. That sounds like that could work. What is the rationale for that? So, when you’re going to make a request like that, what is the business case for it? Can you pinpoint to how her management style is actually making the team less productive or less positive?
Lynn:
Absolutely. In the times that we are told to jump on meetings, we’re pulled away from other work. The lack of structure has us working on multiple things. Our efficiency, our timing is just all over the map. Again, what are we producing? If we’re being pulled over here and sent over here and told to stop here. There’s things that are falling through the cracks that are not being addressed in a timely manner. So, it really touches on a lot of areas of the business.
Mary Abbajay:
Okay. So, your strategy is to try to remove her or to try to get what?
Lynn:
I don’t want to remove her unless management feels, “Hey, maybe her strengths could be better used in this area.” Our area of QA is comprised of multiple departments. A better structure. Perhaps, maybe we put her more into, if she’s a senior manager, that’s another thing. She’s always diving down into all of our activities, rather than focusing where she needs to be and letting us run our shows technically. So, if we could restructure it and have management be more specific and give her specific guidelines and structure, then we can then have our structure and we can all work in a more cohesive environment.
Mary Abbajay:
Yeah. And so what are the odds of, you think, them doing that? And are you going to present a structure?
Lynn:
Yes. I’m going to present a structure. Like I said, I literally just spoke to my coworker, my counterpart this morning. He’s in agreement. We’re going to put together, again, a carefully designed layout with no threatening tones to it, just really for the betterment of the department, which will overall benefit the business and ask for, perhaps, she gets some more alignment in her realm where she should be as a senior manager and stays away from the levels with the exception of a higher level just following up.
Mary Abbajay:
Yeah. Well, I think that’s absolutely a strategy to use. What’s the danger of that strategy though?
Lynn:
I’d like to say, I don’t think there is one.
Celeste Headlee:
I’m laughing only because there’s always a danger.
Mary Abbajay:
Always a downside.
Lynn:
Exactly. Potentially if they do speak with her, depending on how they choose to go about it, it could backfire. But at this point, if that’s what happens, then that’s what happens. And I’ll adjust. I cannot do another year of in 2022 as I have ’21, ’20 and ’19. I can’t do it.
Mary Abbajay:
And that’s where I really want to go next in case it does backfire. So, on a scale of one to 10 Lynn, with one being I’m totally chill and 10 being I am going to kill someone or my it’s going to pop off, what are your emotions towards this person in this situation?
Lynn:
This person in this situation I would say is definitely a nine.
Mary Abbajay:
So, one of the things that happens to us, and maybe this won’t be that meaningful to you, but for other listeners. And this is a very common situation, sadly, that I find with my clients where there’s a real serious mismatch between the management style and the person being managed, the team. And so what happens is that when we start getting really frustrated with the other person, because as you said, she’s not a bad person, she’s just a bad boss. She just ain’t very good at managing people. She’s not a good manager for you. And so what happens when we get into these situations is that we actually get trapped by our amygdala, our reptile brain. And we go into the negative emotional state, which is not good for you. And it’s not good for your performance because that literally, when we’re in the amygdala, when we’re emotionally hijacked by somebody else, then our cortex, our smart part of our brain ceases to exist.
Mary Abbajay:
So, as you’re going through deciding on your strategy, I really would encourage you to try to get out of the hijack of the emotional situation, this is really for other people experiencing that, and try to look at the situation with a little bit of emotional distance. Oftentimes I will tell people, this is really about emotional intelligence in some ways, which I’m sure you have tons of. But it’s about really looking at this person and thinking, “Wow, what must it be like to be them?”
Mary Abbajay:
Having a little empathy. What is this person going through? Giving somebody a little grace and a little empathy as you’re dealing with them can be very helpful. Because we know that organizations promote people to management based on whole bunch of reasons. Most of which aren’t whether they’re going to be a good manager or not. They’re about their technical skills or their experience in something else. Not necessarily their experience in managing. So, if you were this woman, I’m just going to double check this for you. If you were this woman, what’s her experience working with you?
Lynn:
I think that she definitely picks up on my frustrations, but she is also aware that I have her back.
Mary Abbajay:
Yeah.
Lynn:
I will always go above and beyond to do what I need do. She knows that. That’s why she comes to me often. Yeah … I’m trying to visualize it. So, I’m trying to be fair. I’m sure she gets frustrated with me sometimes. I’m sure she does.
Mary Abbajay:
Yeah. I had a young woman once who had a boss, very similar to yours, and she was just so angry at this woman and just making this woman out to be this villain, which you are not doing with, with your boss, Lynn. And I said to her, “For two weeks, I want you to go to work and I want you not to be so damn angry at her. Have a little empathy for what her your boss is going through.”
Mary Abbajay:
I gave her a bunch of other strategies. And about two months later, I’m at an industry event here in DC and her boss comes up to me and says, “I don’t know what you did to my employee, but she’s a whole new person.” So, I always want to council people when they’re dealing with someone who’s really frustrating, to try to see what your contribution is and how that person may be experiencing you.
Mary Abbajay:
It sounds like you’ve done a lot with this person and tried to work it, so this is really more for other people. But the another thing I would say is, have you considered going to her and saying, “Hey, I know we’ve had these conversations and it’s just not working. Quite frankly, I love ya, I want to support you, and I don’t think you’re right for this job. I am going to go make this recommendation about a new structure.” Have you thought about doing that to her? Really letting her know what you’re going to do ahead of time?
Lynn:
So, I would say that I’ve had the conversation up to where I say, I’m going to recommend that you go to another line. Again, she has exhibited some territorial actions that I’ve picked up on. And by the way, I loved everything that you said earlier about having the empathy because I have definitely over the last four years, ran that train. I was angry. I was frustrated. I’m like, “She’s got to go.”
Lynn:
And then one day I finally … I’ve been doing a lot of work on myself as well doing, as you mentioned, the emotional intelligence and I’ve now taken that step. And I think having gone through those courses has gotten me to this point now where I said, empathetically, I do need to address this, but I need to address this in the best way for not only myself, but for her as well, because I understand her personal needs.
Lynn:
There’s things outside of work that are also influencing. She has a ton of personal responsibilities that she’s managing and trying to manage everything else. And when I took that time is when I realized this woman’s just got so much going on. We need to relieve her. Let’s take the plate and instead of one big plate, we make a bunch of little plates. And that’s why now I’m proposing, let’s go talk to her now interim boss with the proposition of, “Hey, maybe we need to move her into something a little different.” And try to pull back the scab on this situation, as much as it might be a little bloody or a little hurtful, a little painful, but I truly am going at it with the most empathetic way that I can for myself as well as her. Because as I said, as a person, I love her. I do.
Mary Abbajay:
Good for you. That’s really important. And I’m glad you’re approaching it this way. So, let’s talk a little just about the political dynamics at play just before you do this, just want to make sure. And Celeste, jump in if you have any thoughts on this.
Mary Abbajay:
So, you’re going to go to her interim boss. So, tell me about how the interim-ness works at your organization. My experience is interim bosses are loathed to make any big changes. Is the timing right? Or is it better to wait until there isn’t an interim? So just talk Celeste and I through that a little bit. Am I right, Celeste, about the politics of that?
Celeste Headlee:
Absolutely.
Lynn:
Oh, definitely. Politics is a slippery slope, for sure. So, the interim, I’m assuming it works the same in most companies. Somebody leaves, somebody steps in, potentially they then secure that position. Not sure that’s going to happen here. However, this individual, I’ve also taken some steps to reach out to another manager, senior manager in our group who is wonderful and loves to mentor people and we spent about an hour on the phone and she goes, “I hear you. And we’re working on things.”
Lynn:
So, he is actually identifying that the quality organization as a whole, we have a lot of work to do and they’re now recognizing that some things need to change and some structures need to happen, including restructuring. So, that’s why I think this is the best time to approach this situation with him as he’s building these new structures and new dynamics.
Celeste Headlee:
Can I just jump in for a second? Because I want to build off something that Mary has already said. And she’s already given you a clue into how you can use your knowledge of brain science to who your advantage. And there may be a place that you’re missing here because I think Mary’s right that going to an interim boss, it can be a tricky proposition to carry that off effectively.
Celeste Headlee:
However, if you guys have a good relationship, there’s reason why you can’t engage her in the problem solving. So if you go to her and say, “Here’s my issue.” Not framing it as in, “Here’s the way you’re not meeting the needs I have.” But, “Here’s the issue I have getting I’ve done efficiently. This is what is getting in the way of my success in my job. Can you help me? Can we work together on this? Here’s my idea for it. I’d love to get your feedback on my proposal and I feel like maybe we can help each other because you’re clearly overwhelmed and maybe we can help each other with this. What do you think?”
Mary Abbajay:
Well, I love it, Celeste.
Lynn:
Yeah. And I will say that I definitely have attempted that, but I will preface it with I’ve attempted it, but at a much softer level. And to your point, maybe I need to beef it up more. And instead of what I’m going to bring to her interim manager, maybe I present it to her, to your point.
Celeste Headlee:
Yeah. And again, whereas people have a tough time … If you go to somebody and say, “Here’s all the stuff that you’re doing wrong.” They are literally going to be in a defensive position. And by that I mean exactly what Mary was saying. You are going to engage their amygdala, they take that verbal feedback just as though were a physical attack.
Mary Abbajay:
Correct.
Celeste Headlee:
And so the conversation is basically over. But we also know that people who disagree with each other on almost every possible level will work together to solve problems and puzzles.
Mary Abbajay:
Yeah. And the other thing Celeste, I completely agree with you. My other concern for you, Lynn, is I don’t want this to damage your reputation. I don’t want people to think, “Oh, that Lynn, she just did an end run around her boss and got her boss canned or whatever.” So, I want you to be able to go through this process and come out smelling like a rose and not the other way. And I agree with Celeste. If you can engage this manager in problem solving, in restructuring, you’re probably doing her a favor. Because she is overwhelmed. So, I really am digging what Celeste said.
Lynn:
No, I like it as well and I am happy to give that a try. So, here’s my question. There’s two aspects. One I’m still trying to work through. What about the situation where … The quality systems that she’s managing is not her realm. So is that irrelevant of everything because look, this is the situation we’re in now so let’s just live where we’re living and just try to make it better? Or is that something that still needs to be addressed? That she’s out of the realm?
Mary Abbajay:
Well, I think that depends on what her role as a manager is and what the organization expects from her. So, at its very basic, a manager is about setting the conditions for his/her/their employees to be successful. It’s about removing obstacles, it’s about making sure the team has the resources and the direction they need. I’m not the kind of person that thinks you need to be a technical expert to be a great manager. It can help, but it also can hurt.
Mary Abbajay:
So, I am not sure. This would depend on your organizational culture. Do they require managers to be technically expert or at least experienced in their realm? I would say your better case, and you are building a case against her, which, let’s just say what it is, is really around the impact of her management style and how that impacts either productivity or positivity on the team and how the team could be better.
Celeste Headlee:
Right.
Lynn:
Okay.
Celeste Headlee:
And also you have to figure out how you sell that to her. And I don’t see that going over fairly well. And going back to the empathy part, the empathy actually can be super informative for you. And by this, I mean keep in mind that she gets home every, and she thinks to herself, “I did the best I could. I had to cut some corners, something slipped by, but I took care of the things that took priority and I did the best I could.” That’s how she’s most likely seeing it.
Lynn:
Right. And I think my other concern is that because she already has a heightened state of protecting her ground. So to add a little bit more to this situation is that she’s the only breadwinner in her home and she’s also older, which she’s expressed. She realizes, we’re getting older in industry and we all know, like it or not, some industries, people can age out, we’ll say. And I want to definitely approach it from the most friendly, concerned, empathetic way that I can. Because I know myself well enough that I can be a bulldozer in my frustrations. So, I know I’m going to have to work on dialing it back, and just really going in there from her side of it maybe is the best way to present it.
Mary Abbajay:
Yeah. Well, I will just say it is a big move that you’re about to make and I just want to make sure that you’re really thinking about the pros and cons if this doesn’t go well for you. If it doesn’t go well, if they look at and they say, “Yeah, no. We’re not going to do this. She’s just fine.” What kind of position does that put you in?
Lynn:
Yeah, that’s true. And to your point, I don’t want to stir the hornets nest.
Mary Abbajay:
Yeah. You don’t want to burn any bridges.
Lynn:
I don’t. And that’s really the saddest thing is I truly, despite my frustrations, I truly, truly just want to make it a better environment and a better again, I keep using the word structure. Not just for myself, for her, for all the whole team. And I’m really going at it with that in mind. But it could backfire.
Mary Abbajay:
It could.
Celeste Headlee:
Yeah, but here’s the thing, Lynn. As much as you are thinking of the team, you are equally thinking of yourself in your own situation, which is 100% natural. That’s not a knock on you. That is natural and that is of course how we all think. So, you might want to take a tactic that has been used in a number of hospitals when they are trying to figure out what went wrong and how they prevent things from going wrong again.
Celeste Headlee:
And the way that they do that is they all sit down to the table and they say, “Okay, here’s what happened.” And each person around the table is going to say their narrative. From their perspective, what happened from beginning to end. Beginning, middle, and end. And the reason I say that is because rather than making assumptions about what’s happening with her, what her priorities are, what she’s thinking, how she makes these decisions, you need to hear from her and that’s going to make the problem solving better because we all only have our own perspective, right? It’s the cliche of, if two people watch a parade, both of them are going to see two different things.
Celeste Headlee:
So, at this point you’re missing some valuable information, which is why is she managing like this? What are the choices she’s making from her perspective? What is happening on your team? And then you can begin to problem solve.
Lynn:
So, would we do that in a group setting? I would worry to a degree that she could feel more threatened that way. Perhaps if we’re all, she may look at it as being ganged up on.
Mary Abbajay:
Well, I think this is something you’d probably want to have an external facilitator come in and have some problem solving conversation. We do this all the time with clients. And it’s really about, all right, what’s working well with this team. What could we do more of, less of, or differently? And there’s ways to make it less threatening. It’s the sort of conversation where you don’t just have it one time, you have it multiple times.
Mary Abbajay:
And if she doesn’t have enough structure and you all want structure, then let’s have a conversation as a group about what that structure would look like. And it sounds like you might, if she goes to you for things, it sounds like you could actually move into be her fake deputy. Here’s the structure the team wants to have and here’s the processes. We’ve really thought this through. What do you think? So, it’s slowly taking some of the things out of her response, her role, and having the team create it.
Celeste Headlee:
Yeah.
Lynn:
And I started doing that with my counterpart and the other woman who works with me. I check in with her every day. “How’s everything going? Do you need anything? What are you working on?” To try to get a feel for what their day is like, how they’re doing. And I don’t have a problem doing that. My only concern is just hitting the wall because as I said, I’ve already asked her for structure. And haven’t just said, “I need structure, period.” I’ve said, “We need to go through projects. We need to see who’s responsible for what. What do we have coming down the pipeline?” I’ve laid it all out and said, these are the things we’d like to work on. But to your point, get more feedback from my counterparts and put a plan together.
Mary Abbajay:
Yeah. Stop asking her, start telling her.
Lynn:
Yeah. Yeah.
Mary Abbajay:
Like, “Do that.” She’s never are going to give you what you want, Lynn. She’s never going to be that person. So, what your team has to do, they need to create that structure and present it to her. Be more proactive. And by the way, it’s going to take her a couple times to get it. So, you can stop asking for that from her. Start saying, “We’ve put this together. We’d love your feedback. Here’s how we think we should proceed.”
Lynn:
Okay. Listen-
Celeste Headlee:
Yeah, because you’re asking for structure and she doesn’t know how to deliver it.
Mary Abbajay:
Yeah. She doesn’t.
Celeste Headlee:
You’re at an impasse.
Lynn:
Right. And even though my thinking that, by saying, “Let’s structure our projects.” But if she’s not even aware of what we’re doing, which is sometimes … Like right now, we have to do weekly trackers of everything that we do in the course of a day and provide this to her weekly. So part of me goes, “Does she even know what we’re doing?” I know she understands the basics. She knows I work in this system and my counterpart works in this system and has a very general knowledge. But there’s also been experiences I’ve had with her where I’ve taken the reins and done something. And I get, “Well, that’s funny. I thought I was the manager.”
Mary Abbajay:
That’s fine. Say, you are. What more can I do for you?
Celeste Headlee:
Yeah.
Lynn:
My response was almost, “Well, then by all means, please manage.” But I did hold back.
Mary Abbajay:
Yeah. And when she says stuff like that to you, you just say, “I’m really trying to help you. I’d love to take more off your plate.” In some ways, I’d like you to see what are the upsides of this kind of a boss? It sounds to me like the upsides of this kind of boss might be that you have a lot of wiggle room to do what you do and be an expert, or am I wrong?
Lynn:
I think I do. Yes. And I just have been taking things on and pushing through and sometimes it works and other times it doesn’t. So to your point, maybe we just need to communicate more. But not just more in words, in actual details.
Lynn:
I feel like what I’m hearing from you is maybe there’s just too much talking and people aren’t really listening. Maybe we need to present more details and that’s how we’re really going to sort it out and iron it out.
Mary Abbajay:
Yeah. And just stop asking her for structure, Lynn. You’re not going to get it. Instead, create the structure. You and your team can band together and create structure. She’s a little bit on the impulsive side, and what we always say when you’re working for an impulsive is whether you like it or not, it’s going to be your job to put guardrails around it. It’s a better team sport than an individual sport. So, with her scatteredness and her impulsivity and her lack of structure, I really do encourage you and the team to pull together and create a structure that’s going to work for you, that’s going to work for her, that’s going to work for the organization. And it’s not a formal structure, but it’s enough structure that you all can really be productive and positive in your careers, in your workplace. Stop waiting for her to give it to you. She’s not going to do it.
Lynn:
Well. And here’s the thing too, to be fair. We have mid year reviews, we have year-end reviews and she does always say, “Please, if there’s anything I can do better, let me know.” So, if she’s asking for that, then we should extend her that. I think we’ve all just been a little cautious, a little nervous. We want our jobs. We like our jobs.
Mary Abbajay:
And one of the things, when we make requests and I’m sure you know this, this is really more for our listeners, people aren’t necessarily really good at making what I call effective requests. And an effective request, especially an effective upwards request is: Here’s what I need, specifically. Here’s what it looks like, specifically, really details. Here’s why I need it, specifically. And here’s how I’m going to make that happen.
Mary Abbajay:
So when it comes to the structure, you could say, “Here’s what we need. Here’s why we need it. Here’s what it looks like. And here it is.” The more legwork you can do for bosses like this, the better off you are. And I also want to be really clear. It’s not fair, it’s not right, it sucks. You get to experience that for a moment. But then we have to pull ourselves away from making the other person the villain and us the victim and figure out what actions can we take to get what we need to be successful, to get what they need to be successful, and for everybody. So it’s really about getting past how they should be and figuring out how you can get what you need.
Celeste Headlee:
Yeah.
Lynn:
I do agree with that. And again, I try to put myself in her situation. Would I want my employees doing this to me? Again, it’s not that we’re doing it to her. We’re just reaching a point of what do we do? What else can we do? Because we think that we’ve conveyed it to her. But to your point, maybe we haven’t effectively conveyed it.
Celeste Headlee:
I just don’t think structure means the same thing to her as it does to you.
Mary Abbajay:
I think Celeste is right.
Celeste Headlee:
So, when you ask for more structure, she may be thinking, “Why do you keep asking for me for this? I’ve given it to you.” So, when you talk about communication, things don’t always mean the same thing to different people.
Lynn:
Agreed.
Celeste Headlee:
So yeah, you’re going to have to use a different tactic. And instead of treating, every single time the chaos reigns, instead of treating it as though it’s a new surprise every time, just know that this is how this is. It shouldn’t surprise you each time.
Lynn:
True.
Mary Abbajay:
You know she’s going to be late for meetings. So send her a note saying, “Hey.” Take turns, “Don’t forget we have this meeting. What do you need from me?” It’s really about thinking ahead of the game for people who aren’t structured or who are chronically unprepared or chronically overwhelmed.
Celeste Headlee:
Exactly.
Mary Abbajay:
And it’s not fair, but it is your reality.
Lynn:
Absolutely. And that’s probably one of my most frustrating things. You are a 100% right and that’s exactly what I do. “Hey, hey. Don’t forget about this.”
Lynn:
“Oh, darn!” Or, “Hey, don’t forget about that.” And I feel like I’ve spent my last four positions managing my managers and part of me is going, I’m so tired of doing it. Can I just get a manager that manages me?
Mary Abbajay:
Of course. I totally understand that. And Lynn, someday you’ll have one. Someday you’ll have the unicorn boss who’s really perfect. But you just haven’t had that lucky moment yet.
Celeste Headlee:
Yeah.
Lynn:
And really at the end of it, once we do all of these things, to bring it back to the very beginning, I have options and they are what they are. And if this doesn’t work, then it may be I have to look for another job. .
Mary Abbajay:
And you know what? That’s okay. What you want to ask yourself is, when you reach the point where you actually cannot have a fulfilling career or fulfilling work life because the relationship just doesn’t work with the boss that you have, then you need to really consider thinking about moving on. Often times, people get all caught around the axle around the sunk cost of it.
Mary Abbajay:
“Oh, but I’ve spent four years with this person. I’ve put all this time.” Well, that time is gone. What you want to think about, Lynn, is the opportunity cost of not moving. So, what are you losing out on in your career or in your happiness, by not around for something that would bring you more happiness, more joy, more ability to do what you want to do at work? So, it’s really important when you’re thinking about this to also take into account the opportunity cost. Where could you put yourself to its next best use?
Celeste Headlee:
Super great advice.
Lynn:
Yeah. And I think the mindset that I’ve been in, and my counterparts even expressed it, is the devil you know versus the devil you don’t. So, to your point, yes, I have put in four years. So then part of me is going, you know what? I’ve already put four years in. I got to do something more. Or to your point, do I go elsewhere? It’s a tough call. Because it does. It’s the devil you know-
Celeste Headlee:
That’s saying only makes sense if there’s only devils out there.
Mary Abbajay:
That’s right.
Celeste Headlee:
That’s the only way that’s saying makes any sense whatsoever, is if the world is full of devils. And it’s not.
Lynn:
I consider the devils to be the situations, is not, maybe-
Celeste Headlee:
Again, only true if every situation is a form of devil and it’s not.
Lynn:
True. Okay.
Mary Abbajay:
It’s not. And the other thing Lynn, you could think about, is called job crafting. But is there a way that you could create a job at your current or organization, maybe in the current unit, where it takes you out of her line of authority? Maybe as an independent person or something. It’s one of these things that people don’t think about, but if you could actually craft a job that does exactly what you love to do, it makes the contribution you want to make, but it isn’t under her sight line, her authority line, have you ever thought about that?
Lynn:
I have. And I’ve started looking at some potential opportunities where I see areas that need to be, air quotes, fixed, where I can jump in and dive in and fix the problem, so to speak. Where I can take take control of situations and make them my own and do better with it.
Mary Abbajay:
That’s something to think about. And when you do that, the same kind of thing around requests. Really craft out what the job would look like, show the value to the organization, the business value, show how you would be able to implement that idea. Talk about your transition into that, and make sure you’re pitching it, get some feedback from some people before you pitch it to the powers that be, and then make sure that you could even pilot it. You could be like, let me 30% of my time doing this. And once you can show the value of it, then you move yourself into a newly creative position that you have created.
Lynn:
I like that idea.
Mary Abbajay:
It works. It’s one of these strategies that not many people think to do. It takes a little bit of leg work, but when it works, bam, you’ve just taken control of your career and your workplace experience.
Celeste Headlee:
Yeah.
Lynn:
Is it possible to maybe turn that into my current situation? Meaning maybe what I do is look at the chaos that’s going on and say, “What chaos can I essentially manage?”
Mary Abbajay:
Yep.
Lynn:
And I may still fall under her, but maybe if that’s the better way to do it. What chaos can I take and make my own?
Mary Abbajay:
Yep.
Celeste Headlee:
Yes. I think that’s good. Although you’re limiting yourself. Before you’ve even started, you’re already limiting yourself to what if I did something narrower where maybe I’m still underneath this boss that I can’t work with. But-
Lynn:
Yeah. You’re right. You’re right.
Celeste Headlee:
In advance, you’re limiting yourself rather than thinking big.
Lynn:
And honestly, I think a little bit of that is a little nervous of making those changes and those jumps. And to your point, what are the potential hazards of doing … Whether it’s talking to her, talking to her manager, making a new job. They’re all big items, big actions.
Mary Abbajay:
And so what I love about this conversation, Lynn, is you came in with just one option and I think now you have four, five, or six options.
Celeste Headlee:
Yeah.
Lynn:
Yeah, definitely.
Mary Abbajay:
And you know, I just read an article, it’s probably in Harvard Business Review or something, where they were talking about when you’re faced with the decision, it was so classic, they’re like, “You make a pro and cons list.” And I was like, “I love that.” So, take each of these options, name them, give them a name, and write a pro list and a con list. And I think that’s a great way when you’re sorting through some of your options. And Harvard Business Review thinks so too.
Celeste Headlee:
Sometimes the simplest solution is the best.
Mary Abbajay:
Right?
Lynn:
Keep it simple. Absolutely.
Mary Abbajay:
Yep.
Lynn:
And sometimes too, by writing out the pros and cons, it makes the cons not so scary and it can make the pros really evident.
Mary Abbajay:
Yeah.
Celeste Headlee:
Yeah. All right, so you have some homework to do, Lynn.
Lynn:
I do.
Celeste Headlee:
But at least exactly how to move forward. And just as Mary was saying, you do have options. What happens next is not entirely up to your boss.
Mary Abbajay:
Yeah. I love that. Was this helpful, Lynn?
Lynn:
Oh my gosh. Absolutely. And I think that’s the thing is feeling empowered that I do have options, that I can take action. So, thank you for all of the guidance and the feedback. It’s definitely opened up of areas that I didn’t think about and provided me with a lot of options.
Celeste Headlee:
Great. Well, what we aim for is to be as helpful as possible. So, I want to say thank you to you first, Lynn, for bringing us a situation and an issue that I bet lots of our listeners are either in, or have been in at some point in their career. So, thank you for that.
Lynn:
Most definitely.
Celeste Headlee:
And thank you for your expertise, Mary, as always. Thanks for sharing your experience with not just Lynn, but everyone listening.
Mary Abbajay:
Well, thank you. Celeste and Lynn, it was an honor to be here. I’m always really touched when … Because I think your work, it takes up most of our waking life and I’m always really honored when people share what’s going on with them for me. So, it was great to be on this so thanks for inviting me. And Lynn, the best of luck to you. I’m going to be thinking about you. So, you’re going to have to find me on LinkedIn and tell me what happens.
Lynn:
Absolutely. Thank you again, both Mary and Celeste, for being able to present this option. Not only for myself, but again, if my situation can help other listeners, then we’re making progress.
The post Best of Women Amplified | How to Manage Your Boss | That’s a Good Question appeared first on Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
We’re catching up on some rest this month, and we hope you are, too! We’ll be resurfacing some of our favorite recent episodes all month to provide an inspiring soundtrack to your R&R. We’ll be back with new speakers and new ideas in January!
Looking for Amy Gallo’s “38 Smart Questions to Ask in a Job Interview?” Check out her article in Harvard Business Review here, and then sign up for The Conference in Your Inbox to hear more from speakers like Gallo!
Burnout is a growing phenomenon in the workplace — leaders experience it as individuals at the same time as they’re responsible for teams feeling it. Being able to address and mitigate burnout is a critical new leadership skill as we navigate this new world of work for ourselves and our teams.
In this replay of her 2021 Massachusetts Conference for Women breakout sessions, award-winning psychologist and author Dr. Jacinta Jiménez explores ways you can take care of yourself and also develop team cultures that inspire people to tap into their core resilience capabilities.
Jacinta JiménezJacinta M. Jiménez, PsyD, BCC (also known as “Dr. J”) is an award-winning author, psychologist, and board-certified leadership coach with a 20+ year career dedicated to the betterment of individuals, leaders, and organizations. Her work is focused around synthesizing her deep knowledge of human behavior and applying it towards the development of technology, innovative coaching programs, and leaders. A graduate of Stanford University and the PGSP- Stanford PsyD Consortium, Dr. Jiménez is a sought-after expert in bridging the fields of psychology and leadership and regularly contributes to international news and TV outlets, including CNN/HLN, Business Insider, Forbes, and Fast Company. Her book, The Burnout Fix debuted as #1 New Release on Amazon, has been recognized by Business Insider as a top book to read about burnout, was the winner in getAbstract’s prestigious 2021 International Book of the Year Reader’s Choice Award, and was named a Best Book on Burnout & Recovery for 2022 by Choosing Therapy. As the Vice President of Coach Innovation at BetterUp, Dr. Jiménez drives the development of groundbreaking science-backed coaching approaches for helping today’s top organizations foster resilience and mental flourishing at work. From this work, Dr. Jiménez has been recognized as one of the Top 50 Women Leaders in San Francisco for 2022 List by Women We Admire. Along with being a Fellow at the American Institute of Stress, Dr. Jiménez holds a certificate in Diversity & Inclusion from Cornell University and provides consultation on topics related to this important area as well.
Celeste HeadleeCeleste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources: Learn more about Dr. Jacinta Jiménez * Get free shipping on books by Women Amplified guests, including Jiménez’s The Burnout Fix: Overcome Overwhelm, Beat Busy, and Sustain Success in the New World of Work, when you shop our podcast page at independent partner bookstore BookPeople * Do you have a work/life problem? Let’s solve it! Tell us about your challenge here and you could be on an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question!” * Sign up for the Women Amplified* email list to receive a notification every time a new episode drops (and maybe receive a few exclusive tidbits) * Join us in person — or online — at the 2023 California Conference for Women this Women’s History Month. Enjoy powerhouse speakers, multiple networking opportunities, fun interactive exhibits, and a brand-new in-person/ online hybrid experience. Learn more at caconferenceforwomen.org.
Photo credit: iStock/ST.art
Episode TranscriptJacinta Jiménez:
I am so thrilled to be here with you today to talk to you about a subject that I’ve been thinking, reading, writing, and researching about a lot, and that’s beating burnout and boosting team resilience as a people leader.
So I’m going to dive in pretty quick, because I want to provide you with as many tools and resources and information as you can, so you leave this session feeling empowered and with really great things that you can take away to help your team flourish and thrive in a new world of work.
So speaking of a new world of work, we are entering into what people call a VUCA world of work. So it’s an acronym that describes our new world and the new world of work we’re living in. So the V is volatile. The U is uncertain. The C is complexity. And the A is ambiguity.
We can all relate to those after 2020 and 2021 even. And this is brought on by really great advances in technology. We have hyperconnectivity, globalization, advent of machine learning and artificial intelligence, which has led to us having an unprecedented amount of information at our access at any time and that’s growing so fast, and also, that’s changing the nature of our work. We have increased remote work and these are all really exciting advances, but like anything that shines bright, it can also cast a shadow.
And that shadow is that the world of work is changing so rapidly, but we humans, we’re not adapting as quickly alongside of it. And a new world of work necessitates new ways to approach work, otherwise, if we’re not thinking about new ways to approach work, we’re going to be left with this feeling of uncertainty that the VUCA world brings. And let me tell you humans hate uncertainty. We are not wired to tolerate it, so much so I’m going to present you just a little questionnaire from a study that came out of the Imperial College of London.
And they asked participants one of two things, they gave them two options. So option one, I can give you a shock right now. Option two, I may, or I may not give you a shock at some point in the day. What do you think people picked? If you thought option one, you’re right. People would rather have a shock now and have a predictive negative consequence than have a shock that may or may not happen later in the day. And in fact, people who picked option two showed greater nervous system, so that’s physiological stress response throughout the entire day.
But this makes so much sense from an evolutionary perspective. So let’s say we’re hunter gatherers and we’re out in new territory and we’re uncertain about the weather patterns. We’re uncertain about where water sources are. We’re uncertain about what foods we can eat. We’re uncertain about what predators are in the area that could attack us and eat us. That’s not going to be great for our survival. That is why we are so wired to not tolerate uncertainty, but wait, we’re living in this VUCA world, that’s creating tremendous amounts of uncertainty, right? And so what are the consequences if we don’t find ways to help ourselves and our teams flourish through this uncertainty?
Well, there’s some big consequences that research has found. So what happens is our psychological resources get taxed slowly but surely over time and this leads to a couple of things, poor performance, more mistakes, decrease in creativity and innovation, which is so needed in our new world of work, and then also decreased morale, things that are not going to let us or our teams really flourish.
So I want to emphasize that this isn’t just a COVID problem, burnout has been happening for a long time. It’s becoming a growing epidemic, so much so that in May 2019, so before COVID, the World Health Organization went as far as to officially recognize burnout in its ICD-11 or International Classification of Diseases 11, as an occupational phenomenon. And they describe it as a syndrome conceptualized as chronic, that’s a key word, workplace stress that has not been successfully managed.
And so if you’re feeling burned out, if your team is struggling with burnout, if your organization is struggling with burnout, you are not alone. This is a global phenomenon that is increasing substantially, especially after COVID and people are really feeling it. And it’s imperative that as leaders, we really think about how to get around it.
And I think that’s this silver lining of this whole thing is that people are realizing that taking care of our wellbeing and nurturing resilience in our people is not just a nice to have, it’s an imperative practice in our new world of work. In fact, a Global Talent Trends study just recently found that one out of every two employees wants to see a greater focus on wellbeing at their work.
And so in my book, this is my big hypothesis or synopsis in my book is that hard work is really important, smart work like productivity hacks is really important, but we’re missing a big piece of the puzzle and that’s pro-resilience mindset, skills, and behaviors. Those are the things that are going to keep us stable and fixed, hence the name, The Burnout Fix, fixed while the world of work and life continues to spin around us.
And so that’s what I’m going to be helping you all out with today. I’m going to give you three Ds, develop, detect, and demonstrate, to help you set your teams up for success to really feel firm, stable, certain, and grounded in our new world of work. So let’s dive in.
So the first one is develop and this is all about setting the foundation to set the stage for psychological safety, so people can talk openly about wellbeing, stress, and resilience, and feel more certain in the face of our VUCA world of work.
So what is psychological safety? So it’s coined by Harvard Business School, Amy Edmondson, and it’s described as a shared belief that the team is safe for interpersonal risk taking. So I liken this to a trust fall. I’ve actually never done a trust fall. I’m not recommending anyone out there do a trust fall. This is just a metaphor, but you’ve probably seen it on TV or in I think an episode of The Office has it. And the team kind of goes, stands around together with their arms out, and one brave team member steps up on a stool. They cross their arms over their chest, they fall back and the team catches them and safely guides them to the ground and it builds trust.
Well, psychological safety is like a psychological trust fall. You’re taking a leap of faith with an idea, vulnerability, an opinion, knowing that that’s going to fall safely in the group. And so people are like, “That sounds great, but then everyone’s just going to agree on everything all the time.” And that’s a myth. Psychological safety is anything about having everyone agree on everything all the time. When people feel safe to share an opinion, it actually allows people to be more candid and more truthful, admit mistakes so they can get corrected earlier on. It’s actually really beneficial for productive dissent.
There’s another myth that when I bring up psychological safety that a lot of people are like, “Well, then we’re not going to perform well. Everyone’s going to feel safe. It’s not going to be great for team performance.” But no, no, no, the truth is that science has found it’s one of the, if not the biggest predictor of team performance.
So I’m going to give you an example, because I love research, I’m a science geek, and so I want to give you real good facts that actually show evidence for why you should do this. So this is Project Aristotle and it’s a big study. It took two years to conduct and the researchers wanted to know why some teams at Google are flourishing and hyper performing and why some are just average or even mediocre.
And so they looked at, over two years again, 180 teams, 200 interviews, 250 team attributes, so what the background was of the team, the education, the gender makeup, everything, and they couldn’t find a pattern and they were going, “What is going on? There’s no predictive pattern that predicts what makes a great team.”
That was until they looked at the psychological makeup of the team and they found out that if the team has psychological safety, they’re more likely to admit mistakes, partner and take on new roles. When psychological safety is there, certainty is there and courage goes up, fear gets diminished and people actually want to take on more ambitious goals. They want to admit mistakes and correct them earlier. There’s not that fear running, that uncertainty running behind them. It’s pretty amazing.
So what does an unsafe team sound like? They say things like, “Our team meetings don’t always feel like a safe zone for questions or thoughts. The tone of the meeting can be condescending and impersonal at times.” That’s not going to allow us to speak up, to be innovative, to take on ambitious goals or risks, whereas safe teams feel like the team is supportive, if you make a mistake. They also frequently ask questions. People are open to questions. They’re highly curious. And that is because they feel safe so they can really explore. But if we’re not safe, we don’t want to ask questions. We don’t want to explore. We don’t want to take risks.
So how do you build psychological safety? Well, I provided you all with a handout with a step by step process of how to set team norms for psychological safety and build psychological safety, and that will be provided to all of you. And I’ve sent this handout to many executives at companies worldwide and they’ve gotten really great feedback. So I really encourage you to try it out.
But it involves three things, the promotion of mutual trust, fostering a shared sense of purpose, so gathering around that north star mission of your team, and then establishing clear norms that are written, I say written rules about how to share information and ideas, so everyone knows when it’s a good time, when it’s not, and it feels clear and safe. And so when that happens, feelings of fairness and connection go up and feelings of learned helplessness or inefficacy go down. And that is so powerful again for providing certainty in our new world of work.
So I’m not going to go through every one of these questions, but I just wanted to give you an idea of what’s on the handout that I’ll be giving. Again, it’s a step by step process, but it’s things, asking questions like how do we communicate as a team, especially for remote, right? How do we make sure people can talk about resilience and wellbeing and stress and not feel embarrassed because it is different to start talking about this at work. How do we safely discuss sources of stress with our leader? How do they do that with you? And then, what can be done so that everyone can provide input at some point and feel safe to do so? So these are bringing out great dialogue and are just great starters, but the handout has even more.
So we’re onto the second D and that’s detect. So how do you recognize signs of burnout in your people and respond to them most efficaciously? So as you can see, I like to bust myths. I want to use science to give you the real truth. So there’s a myth that burnout is easy to detect. They’re like, “Oh, I’ll just know when my people are burned out.”
Not so fast, burnout is not an on and off switch. It’s far more insidious. It kind of sneaks up on you over time. And if you’re not looking out for it, it’ll get to the point where it’s so far, then it’s really disrupting your personal and professional life. It’s kind of like these corrosive drips in mass can really take a toll on your people’s vitality. So it’s really important to catch it earlier so that people can do something about it with you.
So I liken detect to a gas tank indicator, just like we have our gas tank indicator, our oil, our heat on our car dashboard and we know, oh, I’m going into the yellow, I got to get some gas. The same thing for our people and ourselves, we need to be able to monitor. If we’re getting into the yellow, let’s course correct then so we have the metaphorical, psychological resources in our tank to do something about it. When it gets to the red and our people are struggling, that’s hard. It hurts team morale. It decreases the team performance. It hurts that person as well. So the sooner you can catch it the better.
And I’m a big believer that knowledge is power. I wear my smart watch, I track my steps. Doctors have people track their blood pressure, their weight, all kinds of things to make sure they catch it preventatively. And so the same thing we have to do with our wellbeing. It’s not rocket science, it just takes time and just done on a consistent basis. So it can take like 15 minutes a week to just track it.
And I have another handout for you all, a burnout buffering monitoring sheet that you can give to your direct reports and also do for yourself. And it’s like a little tiny, quick check in that you can also incorporate into your one-on-ones with your people.
So how do you monitor for burnout, if you don’t know what it is? So let me walk you through what burnout is. So the research has found there’s three core components that make up burnout. There’s exhaustion, that’s immense, emotional cognitive fatigue. Of course, we’re going to feel exhausted at times at work for a week or two. This is not that, it’s prolonged exhaustion, where you go on vacation, you don’t feel better. You can’t get up to face another day on the job.
The next one is cynicism. This one’s not as obvious, but it’s really important to look out for the cynicism in your highest performing, most engaged employees, because these people are most ironically, likely to fall into cynicism. They’re so bought into their mission, they love it so much that sometimes they don’t know the boundaries, or they’re overworking so much they don’t pay attention to how they’re doing on a stress level. And then they boomerang into cynicism where they’re like, “I don’t even know why I’m doing my job. The mission doesn’t even resonate with me anymore.” And it’s so tragic because these are the people that really love what they do, they are your top performers.
And then the final one is inefficacy. So that’s a lack of productivity or feelings of competence on the job. They just feel like they can’t keep up. They’re not making progress. They’re not hitting their goals. And it’s again, this is heartbreaking, because these are people that are more than capable of doing their work, they’re just in the throes of burnout.
So when these three things come together, think of it like a Venn diagram, that’s when burnout happens. But the interesting thing to note is that people have different burnout profiles. So one person can have high levels of exhaustion, a moderate amount of cynicism and a tiny bit of inefficacy, whereas for me, I’ve been burned out in the past. Yes, even psychologists can burn out, so you have to monitor.
And so mine, because I love what I do, I end up with a lot of cynicism, so that’s the one I keep an eye out for a lot, and then a little bit of exhaustion and then some inefficacy. So if you have had burnout in the past, at least the silver lining is you know which one’s to monitor for. But again, I have a burnout buffering monitoring sheet for you that you could track just weekly so you can see how you’re doing, because if you’re doing well, it’s important to go, “Wow, what’s keeping me in the green and how do I keep that up as well?” So knowledge is power.
The next thing I just want to mention is how burnout happens. We know what it is, but why does it happen? And what happens is it’s a result of a mismatch between the nature of our work and our capacities as humans. So Michael Gungor has this quote that I love, burnout happens when you try to avoid being human for too long.
We are human beings, we are not machines, and when we deny our humanness for the sake of productivity, that’s when burnout happens. I liken it to a scale and things are never going to be totally in balance, but when it gets really out of balance, that’s when burnout happens.
And so there’s actually six person job mismatches that lead to burnout, that research has found. It’s not just from overworking. So if a person comes to you and says, “I’m burned out,” and you’re like, “Just work less,” that might not solve the source of their burnout. It could actually be from a breakdown in community, which we’ve all experienced with COVID, right? We, as human beings are highly resilient, but we’ve survived for centuries in tribes. We come into this world literally connected to another person. We need other people. And if we don’t feel a connection, if we don’t feel belonging or inclusion at work, that alone can lead to burnout.
A lack of control can lead to burnout because we don’t have certainty. It can lead to learned helplessness, where it’s like, why even try if I can’t control my situation? Another one is values conflict. So if we’re put on a work stream and it doesn’t feel like, this doesn’t align with what I stand for as a human being, and we’re trying to deny that human side of us that can lead to burnout.
Reward is another one. You know those shiny stars we got as kids for doing well? That doesn’t go away. That’s a human need to be acknowledged. And I’m talking about social and intrinsic reward for the hard work we’re doing. And it can be just little things, but it goes such a long way in keeping morale up.
And then the absence of fairness. So if things are changing on the job quickly, and we’re not being very clear about job expectations for job role success and one of your people is like, “Why did you not give me a promotion?” and it wasn’t clear expectations, it’s not going to feel fair. And that can take a toll as well.
So the source of burnout is much more complex than just overworking to the point of exhaustion. And the more granular your people can get with identifying the specific cause of the mismatch, the more precise and efficacious your response can be. So I think it’s really important to realize burnout is much more complex, and so it needs a much more complex monitoring system for it. But luckily that burnout buffering monitoring sheet will help you in a big way.
So I just want to talk about some things that you can do in your one-on-ones with your direct reports. So you can just ask them, how has your stress levels been? Are you in the red, yellow, green? You can use wording for that so it stays very high level. I’m not expecting you as a leader to have deep conversations about people’s wellbeing, it’s about checking in on them.
You can ask them if there’s a cause, the six mismatches. You can ask, what can we do to address this? Do you have an idea of how to address this? If it’s a breakdown in community, how do we get you feeling more connected? If they’re doing well, what contributed to this week going so well and how do we keep that up? And then a big one reward, thank you for sharing this with me. That can go such a long way in normalizing and reinforcing that this is an important practice that you’re incorporating into your leadership behaviors.
So we’re onto the final D, demonstrate. And I think this one is so important because as a leader, it’s your job to model, promote and reward pro-resilience skills, mindsets, and behaviors in your people, especially this is new. People want to see a greater focus on wellbeing, but people don’t know how to talk about wellbeing at work necessarily. So as a leader, setting the stage and leading by modeling.
So the thing I want to emphasize to you and your people is that stress isn’t bad. Stress gets a bad rap but stress in small doses, this is actually leads to growth and enhanced performance. When we go through a stressful event, especially as a team, it brings us closer. And especially if we successfully navigate it, it makes us feel like we have more self-efficacy, that we can learn from things, and it creates that confidence in the face of uncertainty.
I liken it to weight lifting. You lift weights, you break down the muscle fibers, but then you rest, and you come back stronger. And this is important because I think people think just stress is bad, but I’m going to show you … So if you see this slide, it’s called the Yerkes-Dodson curve. I’m going to get a little nerdy here for just a second. And on the bottom is arousal. So from low physiological stress to high physiological stress, where you’re really having overly stressed. And then on the side, you’ll see performance from weak to strong.
And if you’ll notice on the curve, too little stress, if you don’t have stress, you actually have low engagement and low performance. We need a little bit of stress to actually perform at our best. Again, it’s really not bad, but you want to stay in that optimal, I call it your stretch zone, right in the optimal space, and that’s where you want your team to go. But if they have prolonged stress, chronic stress that has not been successfully managed, going back to the World Health Organization definition of burnout, you can slide over the curve. And that creates impaired performance, which we do not want in our people.
So stress isn’t bad, it’s chronic stress without recovery that puts you in the danger zone. Again, we are wired to tolerate stress. Our nervous system is made for that. Just an evolutionary example, again, because of all the talking about lean into your capacities as humans, right?
So let’s say I’m walking in the woods and a bear comes at me. What happens is my sympathetic nervous system goes into play and I can do one of three things. I can fight the bear, but I’m only 5’1, it’s not going to go well. I can flight, I can run away, or I could freeze out fear. So let’s say I run away, I successfully escape the bear and I know I’m safe, what I do is I’m like, breathe, and my parasympathetic nervous system, that’s the nervous system that’s tied to rest and digest kicks in and it recovers.
But in today’s world, we’re hit with metaphorical bears constantly where we’re not getting to allow our nervous system to rest and recover. And if we don’t, it falls over that curve that I showed you earlier into that stress zone. If we rest, we can stay right in that optimal zone. So it’s really about counterbalancing stress with rest.
So if there’s a mantra, I want you to take home today. It’s when you stress, you must rest, and sharing this with your team as well. So having a stressful moment like right now, I’m excited to talk to you all, but my nervous system is activated. Your nervous system doesn’t know if you’re happy, stressed, it just knows it’s activated. But after every talk I do, I block off only 15 to 20 minutes in my calendar, it’s not much, to go somewhere that’s calming and breathe and let my nervous system recover.
And then I’ll go to another big stressful meeting, but then I’ll counter it with a micro dose of rest. And it doesn’t take much, but that will allow you to stay right in that stretch zone and allow your team to do it as well. And if your team does a big sprint, just bringing them back right into that stretch zone again and again, and again. It’s about consistency.
So you can pick your path. You can work, work, work, work, work, wait until a vacation time, I’m not saying vacations are bad, but we need these small moments of replenishment, and then you’ll have the decline of performance, which then leads to burnout. Or you could just work, rest, work, rest, little tiny things like that. And going through your calendar throughout the week and going, “Oh, I’m meeting with that stressful person. Okay, I’m going to put in a meeting with a person that really lifts me up,” can make all the difference in the world.
So this is a Tanzanian proverb I learned while hiking Mount Kilimanjaro on a all women’s expedition, summiting on International Women’s Day. I love women empowerment. So I’m happy to be here. Little by little, a little becomes a lot. Maybe your team does one thing that week. Maybe you end the meeting five minutes early and you all just go and breathe and recover your nervous system.
Maybe the next week, you’re adding more deposits into your team’s metaphorical resilience piggy bank. And by one month you have so much reserve, so then if you have a stressful sprint with your team, you can take reserve out of the piggy bank without breaking the bank, and the team still feels grounded and fixed and stable while we live and work in this VUCA world.
So another thing I encourage you to do with your team is just crowdsource, ask them, what do they do to detach and replenish psychologically? And it’s really fun to hear what leaders, the teams come up with. It’s a really creative little menu of little micro doses of leisure and rest and replenishment. And I talk about many, many ways to do that in my book as well.
So the final thing I just want to say is reward your team too, as a leader. So not just model this by doing this, but reward them. Look for opportunities to reinforce when they’re engaging in these skills. And then at your weekly team meetings, if you have time just spending a little time, even a minute or two, having someone volunteer and talk about their efforts to do stress with rest, so they’re modeling it for the team as well. And that also has reward, which is one of the causes of burnout. So you’re buffering against that too.
So there you have it, develop, detect and demonstrate. This is the foundation of resilient team leadership, establishing norms to promote psychological safety monitoring and responding to signs and causes a burnout and rewarding and reinforcing pro-resilience mindset, skills, and behaviors by emphasizing stress and rest.
So I want to end really quickly by telling you a story, because I think it brings the message that I’m trying to communicate to all of you, home. So when I started my meditation practice, I would get up every morning at 6:00 AM on the dot and sit for 60 minutes. And my meditation practice felt as weighty and important as my meditations did. That was until I got to hear the Dalai Lama speak. Yes, I was very blessed.
And so the day of the event, I went into the auditorium and there was this hush of conversation of seriousness about, what are we going to talk about with this world leader? What are these insights that he’s going to bring to us? And then they started us off with a meditation. And we all got quiet and pretty serious, closed our eyes. I grabbed my prayer breeds and I focused in on my breath. And pretty far into the meditation, there was an effervescent giggle that rang through the auditorium. And I was like, “Who is laughing during the Dalai Lama meditation?” And anyone who knows meditation, it’s like, oops, bring my thoughts back to my breath.
And then right after they had us open our eyes and come back into the room, and when I did the first thing that came into focus, I kid you not, was the Dalai Lama. And he was smiling with the most beautiful smile across his face, and he was the one laughing. And I was so taken aback because instead of some somber prayer or gentle words of wisdom, he laughed at himself and he made a joke. He said, “Oh my God, I’m so jet lagged, I think I fell asleep during the meditation.”
And it was the most profound moment and learning from that day and maybe that entire decade of life was that even the wisest of us, even the ones with the most responsibility and serious work can find a way to live with their humanness and humanity while doing important work in the world. Serious work in a serious time in the world should not, and does not have to come at expense to rest, wellbeing, and recovery.
If anything, the more centered we are in ourselves, the better we show up to our work and our people and our customers. We are more innovative, more creative, we have better morale, everyone benefits. And not only that, we show up to our families, our communities, everything, everyone benefits.
So I really encourage you to realize that resilience is not about how you endure, it’s about how you recharge and replenish. So I hope you get a little micro rest today.
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The Pennsylvania Conference for Women is online AND in-person this year! Join us to reset, renew, and reconnect on October 6 and 7, 2022. To get a sense of what we offer, check out the preview video above.
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Jay Shetty is a British-born, #1 New York Times best-selling author, award-winning storyteller and podcast host, and former monk. He recently shared his insights into how thinking like a monk can help you navigate stress. Q: Monks, you say, are experts in finding peace, calm, and purpose — which are qualities that many people have […]
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