The Voices of War: Recent Episodes

Maz

A podcast with a simple vision—to bring to life the true costs of war, through the voices of those who have lived it.

David McBride, a retired Major and former legal officer in the Australian Army, discusses his actions of leaking information to the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) that ultimately led to the exposure of alleged war crimes committed by Australian soldiers in Afghanistan. David highlights the political manipulation of the war narrative and emphasises the need for clear rules of engagement. David became disillusioned with the Australian military's handling of war crimes and the seeming politicisation of the war in Afghanistan. He observed a lack of proper investigations into war crimes and a focus on appearances rather than effectiveness. McBride suspected that the Australian government was trying to cover up war crimes to maintain their alliance with the US. David decided to take action and expose the political games played by leaking classified documents to the media. David McBride discusses his career and the challenges he faced when he discovered evidence of mishandling of allegations by Defence and political seniors. He highlights the lack of accountability and poor leadership within the military, and the difficulty he faced in trying to bring attention to these issues. McBride emphasises the need for a fair trial and public support to address the systemic problems within the military. He also shares his thoughts on ANZAC Day and the importance of genuine care for veterans.

Key Takeaways* David McBride, a former legal officer in the Australian Army, leaked information about alleged war crimes committed by Australian soldiers in Afghanistan. * He highlights the excessive investigation of special forces soldiers and the political manipulation of the war narrative. * McBride emphasises the need for clear rules of engagement and the importance of holding soldiers accountable for their actions. * He also discusses how the Australian military mishandled war crimes and prioritised appearances over justice. * The government may have tried to cover up war crimes to maintain their alliance with the US. * David McBride took action by leaking classified documents to expose political games. The military leadership needs to be held accountable for potential war crimes and poor leadership. * There is a need for a fair trial and public support to address systemic problems within the military. * ANZAC Day should be a day of genuine care for veterans, not just political window dressing.

Chapters

03:00 Uncovering Alleged War Crimes12:01 The Power of Narratives35:46 The Australian Military's Mishandling of War Crimes01:02:06 David McBride's Whistleblowing and Exposing the Truth01:12:22 The Problem Starts at the Top01:21:09 The Need for Accountability and Leadership01:32:11 The Legal Dilemma

SummaryThe conversation with Meron Rapoport, an Israeli journalist, focuses on the use of AI in Israel's bombing campaign in Gaza. The investigation reveals that an AI machine, called Lavender, was used to create a list of targets, resulting in a high death toll and destruction. The conversation covers the level of involvement in the investigation, the role of military censorship in Israel, the surprise at the article passing censorship, and the lack of awareness about this process globally. The main themes include the technological side of AI in warfare, the use of private homes as targets, the collateral damage caused, and the allocation of munitions based on target importance. The conversation explores the principal themes of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, focusing on the trauma experienced by Jewish Israelis, the goals of the Israeli military campaign, the impact on the Gaza population, the lack of reporting in Israel, and the long-term consequences for Israeli society. The conversation also touches on the use of AI technology in warfare and the potential dangers it poses. The main takeaways include the need for a political solution, the fear and insecurity felt by Jewish Israelis, and the importance of understanding the human cost of the conflict. KeywordsAI, Israel, Gaza, bombing campaign, investigation, military censorship, surprise, technological side, private homes, collateral damage, munitions, Israeli-Palestinian conflict, trauma, military campaign, Gaza, reporting, AI technology, political solution, fear, insecurity, human cost

Takeaways* AI was used in Israel's bombing campaign in Gaza, resulting in a high death toll and destruction. * The military censorship in Israel requires approval for any information related to the army, leading to self-censorship and limited dialogue. * The use of private homes as targets and the high collateral damage raises ethical concerns. * The allocation of munitions based on target importance shows a pragmatic and systematic approach to warfare. The trauma experienced by Jewish Israelis is a significant aspect of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. * The goals of the Israeli military campaign include destroying Hamas and making life in Gaza impossible. * There is limited reporting on the conflict in Israel, leading to a lack of awareness of the human and infrastructure costs in Gaza. * The use of AI technology in warfare raises ethical concerns and can lead to large-scale destruction. * A political solution is necessary to address the root causes of the conflict and ensure long-term peace.

Chris Gunness discusses the role and mandate of UNRWA, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees, and the challenges it faces amidst the ongoing conflict in Gaza. He highlights the size and scope of UNRWA's operations, providing education, healthcare, and social services to millions of Palestinian refugees across the Middle East. Chris also addresses the historical context of the Palestinian refugee crisis and the failure to find a durable solution. He explores the motivations behind Israel's opposition to UNRWA and its campaign to delegitimise the organisation. The conversation delves into the impact of the information war and the desensitisation of the Israeli population to the suffering of Palestinians. The conversation then delves into the impact of the smear campaign against UNRWA, the role of media in shaping narratives, and the asymmetry in the information war. We discuss the systematic efforts to dismantle UNRWA and the consequences of its defunding. The conversation also explores the enduring impact of the recent events in Gaza on geopolitics and the potential for a just and durable solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Keywords

UNRWA, Palestine, refugees, Gaza, genocide, humanitarian, Israel, mandate, education, healthcare, social services, history, right of return, durable solution, occupation, genocide, asymmetry, information war, desensitisation, UNRWA, smear campaign, media, information war, defunding, humanitarian organisations, Gaza, geopolitics, Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Key Takeaways

• UNRWA is a massive organisation that provides education, healthcare, and social services to millions of Palestinian refugees across the Middle East.
• The Palestinian refugee crisis is a result of the 1948 Middle East War and the failure to find a durable solution, including the right of return for refugees.
• Israel opposes UNRWA and seeks to delegitimise the organisation due to its fear of a demographic shift and the potential loss of a Jewish majority.
• The information war and asymmetry in power contribute to the desensitisation of the Israeli population to the suffering of Palestinians.
• The international community must read and understand the history and context of the conflict to challenge false narratives and work towards a just and lasting solution. The smear campaign against UNRWA and the defunding of humanitarian organisations have had a significant impact on their operations and reputation.
• The asymmetry in the information war, with right-wing Zionists dominating the narrative, has hindered the dissemination of accurate information.
• The recent events in Gaza have further damaged the prospects for a just and durable solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
• The enduring impact of the events in Gaza includes a loss of faith in international law and a potential increase in regional instability.
• There is a need for independent investigations and accountability for the crimes committed during the recent conflict.

In this monologue, I reflect on my absence before expressing frustration with the limited and oversimplified coverage of war and conflict, especially Israel's war on Gaza. I unequivocally criticise Israel's actions, highlighting the need to look beyond headlines and focus on immediate reduction of human suffering. I also announce upcoming interviews with experts to shed light on geopolitical machinations and analyse global conflicts, including Chris Gunness, Francesca Albanese, and David Petraeus.

As 2023 draws to a close, I want to take a moment in this special year-end episode to reflect on the enlightening journey we've embarked on together through 'The Voices Of War.' This year, we’ve traversed a wide array of topics, spanning more than 35 hours of interviews across 26 episodes, reaching over 100,000 downloads, and connecting with listeners in more than 150 countries. Our conversations have taken us deep into the heart of current global conflicts, including the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine and the Israel-Hamas war, where we've attempted to unravel the complex layers of these protracted struggles. We've dived into the dark waters of radicalisation, seeking to understand the roots and paths that lead individuals down this route. We explored the rapidly evolving field of artificial intelligence and its ethical implications in both civilian life and warfare, highlighting how technology is reshaping the character of war, if not its nature. We've grappled with the ethics of war, questioning the moral dilemmas faced by those on the front lines and the decision-makers behind them. We delved into war’s impact on mental health, and the unseen scars it leaves on individuals and societies, offering a sombre yet necessary reflection on the unspoken costs of conflict. We’ve looked at dehumanisation, the impact of information on our behaviour and we explored how our desire for status makes us vulnerable to exploitation. All these topics sought to contribute to the same goal—to scratch below the simple narratives of war, that dominate our mainstream and social media channels. Lastly, as I prepare for my transition from the Army to civilian life (a surprise to some but not to others), these conversations have certainly enriched my perspective on the world we live in. I hope they have done the same for you. Thank you for joining me on this journey and here's to continuing our quest for nuance and depth in 2024. #TheVoicesOfWar #2023WrapUp #Podcast #Reflections #GlobalConversations #WarAndPeace

Today, I spoke with Jason Pack, author of the acclaimed book ‘Libya and the Global Enduring Disorder’, and a recognised expert on the Middle East. Jason also hosts the excellent Disorder podcast and serves as a senior analyst for emerging challenges at the NATO college in Rome. With over two decades of research in the Middle East, Jason brings a unique perspective to understanding the complexities of the region’s geopolitics.

This is Jason’s second appearance on the show. We first spoke back in May of 22, in Episode 55. That time, we explored Jason’s excellent book and his concept of the Global Enduring Disorder. You can listen to that episode here. Today, Jason joins me to discuss the recent escalation of violence in the Middle East, how it relates to the idea of the Global Enduring Disorder and what we might need to consider when looking for an enduring and just peace in the region.

00:00 Introduction to Jason Pack

Jason discusses his background and the relevance of his work in current global affairs.
Jason shares his transition from studying to focusing on Middle East geopolitics post-9/11, including his experiences in Beirut, Egypt, Syria, and Libya.

06:20 The Concept of Global Enduring Disorder and Orderers vs Disorderers

Jason explains his concept of 'Global Enduring Disorder', contrasting the current global landscape with the past, focusing on the shift from order to disorder.
Jason proposes a perspective to view global politics as a struggle between forces of order and disorder, expanding beyond traditional ideological divides.

13:15 The Impact of American Foreign Policy in the Middle East

An Analysis of the influence and consequences of American hegemony in the Middle East, particularly regarding the Israel-Palestine conflict.

15:15 Interconnected Global Conflicts

Jason discusses how various global conflicts, including the Israel-Palestine issue, are interconnected and influence each other.
Exploring the involvement of Russia and Iran in fostering global disorder, including their potential roles in the Israel-Palestine conflict.

23:05 The Three Blocks of Middle East Geopolitics

Jason categorises the Middle Eastern geopolitical landscape into three distinct groups, focusing on their respective roles and alliances.

25:56 The Pivotal Role of Qatar in Middle Eastern Peace

Jason discusses Qatar's unique position in the Middle East and its potential role in bringing peace and stability to the region.

33:15 The Middle East Peace Process: A New Approach

Exploring a novel approach to the Middle East peace process, involving regional players and addressing underlying causes.

39:10 Addressing Root Causes of the Israel-Palestine Conflict

Discussion about the necessity of addressing the underlying causes of the Israel-Palestine conflict, including the creation of a Palestinian state and the role of external influences.

42:15 The Complexity of the Israel-Gaza Conflict in Global Perception

Jason delves into the reasons behind the global attention on the Israel-Gaza conflict, highlighting the unique position of Jews and Israel in global dynamics and the disproportionate global response to the conflict.

52:38 The Potential of Qatar in Resolving Middle East Conflicts

Jason reiterates the strategic importance of Qatar in bringing peace to the region, emphasising its unique position as a mediator among various conflicting parties.

55:09 The Influence of Gulf States in Global and Regional Politics

Jason discusses the growing influence of Gulf states like the UAE and Qatar in global and regional politics, highlighting their roles in funding, cultural influence, and diplomacy.

01:02:14 Closing Thoughts: Challenges and Hope for Middle East Peace

Jason concludes with his thoughts on the ongoing challenges in achieving peace in the Middle East and the potential for a new approach involving Gulf states to bring stability to the region.

Resources:

The Road to Middle East Peace Runs Through Doha, Foreign Policy: https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/11/07/qatar-israel-hamas-gaza-war-middle-east-peace/
Episode 55. Jason Pack - On the ’Global Enduring Disorder: https://thevoicesofwar.com/55-jason-pack-on-the-global-enduring-disorder/
Jon Wiener Podcast on plan to end war in Gaza: https://www.thenation.com/podcast/world/sms-guttenplan-powers-113023/

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Today, I spoke with Professor Greg Barton, a prominent Australian academic with a distinguished career specialising in global Islamic politics and countering violent extremism. His expertise, particularly in the realm of Islamic thought, positions him as a leading authority on issues of terrorism, extremism, and the development of effective interventions. Author of several influential articles and books, Professor Barton offering deep insights into the convergence of religion, politics, and societal challenges. This is Greg’s second appearance on the show. Last time he joined me was on Episode 81, where we discussed the process of radicalisation generally. On that occasion, we used the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the Covid pandemic as well as far fight extremism as the vehicle for our discussion. Today, Greg joins me for a follow-up with a particular focus on the events unfolding in the Middle East and their impact globally. Main topics we covered include: 0:00 Introduction to Professor Greg Barton: A brief introduction to the episode and Professor Barton's background in global Islamic politics and countering violent extremism.5:52 Deliberate Provocation by Hamas: Analysis of Hamas' tactics in Gaza and their global impact, including use by extremist groups for support generation. 8:10 Waning global support for Israel: An assessment of how global support for Israel might be shifting in the face of their response to the October 7th attack. 16:43 International Humanitarian Law: A reflection on Israeli application of the laws of war on their military operations in Gaza23:42 Jihadism vs. Islamism: Clarifying the Concepts: A discussion aimed at differentiating between Jihadism and Islamism, with a focus on Hamas. 39:06 Decoding the Radicalisation Process: Exploring the 'triple P model' of radicalisation and how individuals are drawn to extremist ideologies. 44:08 Battle for Hearts and Minds: An analysis of the likely impacts of current military actions in Gaza on future cycles of violence.53:34 Radicalisation at scale: A reflection on the ongoing global polarisation via mainstream and social media 57:25 Human Nature and Extremism: Emphasising the inherent potential for good in human beings and how this can be leveraged to counteract extremist ideologies.1:08:20 Greg’s biggest concern: A reflection on how the current situation can descend into an even greater calamity. Professor Barton's insights offer a comprehensive understanding of the intricate dynamics of global Islamic politics, terrorism, and the ongoing challenges in countering violent extremism. His unique perspective combines academic rigour with a deep understanding of the human elements at play in these critical global issues. I hope you get as much out of this conversation as I have. Resources:• You can listen to Greg’s previous episode here.• You can view my short reflection on the current situation here. Finally, don't forget to review, rate, and share The Voices of War to help us continue exploring the complex narratives of war. To comment or take the conversation further, please connect with us here: https://www.thevoicesofwar.com https://www.twitter.com/twitter.com/thevoicesofwarhttps://au.linkedin.com/company/the-voices-of-warhttps://www.youtube.com/youtube.com/thevoicesofwar

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--- Today, I spoke with Nadim Shehadi, a distinguished Lebanese economist and academic, who delved into the intricate mesh of Palestinian, Israeli, and broader Middle Eastern politics, economics, and conflicts. With a rich background that spans prestigious positions at the Fletcher School, Chatham House, and Oxford as well as personal experiences of previous wars in Lebanon and beyond, Nadim brings a nuanced perspective to the complexities and tragedies of the region.

Some of the key topics we covered are:

· Gaza Dynamics: Analysing recent events in Gaza, Nadim offers an expert take on the guerrilla warfare tactics of Hamas and the cyclical nature of the conflict with Israel.· Global Reactions: The discussion turns to the diverse international reactions to the Gaza conflict, highlighting the polarising effect on global politics.· Trap Warfare: Nadim introduces the concept of 'trap' warfare, elucidating how Hamas's tactics bait international disapproval for Israel.· Lebanese Sovereignty: The conversation addresses Hezbollah's role in Lebanon, discussing the challenges to Lebanese sovereignty and governance.· Civilians in Conflict: An exploration of the civilian experience in Gaza and Lebanon, emphasizing the human cost of ongoing tensions.· Resistance and Negotiation: Nadim contrasts the methodologies of armed resistance and negotiation in political struggle.· Lebanon's Political Mosaic: A historical overview of Lebanon's political evolution, with insights into its unique culture and the legacy of empires.· Intricacies of Conflict: Nadim delves into the intricate connections between local politics and broader regional dynamics, underscoring the international community's involvement.· Regional Dynamics: The discussion highlights the strategic roles of Arab states, the Gulf region, Egypt, Jordan, the European Union, and the United States in fostering stability.· Critique of U.S. Policy: Nadim offers a critical analysis of the U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East, noting a misalignment with the complex regional context.· Security Concerns for Israel: Insights into Israel's security priorities and the existential challenges it faces from regional adversaries.· Underestimating Iran: A critique of the U.S. administration's oversight of Iran's influence in the region, particularly in relation to the JCPOA.· Policy Proposals Examined: Nadim assesses Antony Blinken's policy proposals, suggesting they lack the depth required to grasp the region's nuanced challenges.· Survival Mentality: The conversation closes with a personal reflection on living under constant threat, depicting the day-to-day reality of Middle Eastern geopolitics.
Nadim Shehadi's expertise sheds light on the historical and current challenges facing the Middle East, offering a profound examination of the power dynamics at play. This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking to understand the deeper narratives that shape this complex region.

Resources:* Lebanon is revisiting the ghost of the 2006 Israel-Hezbollah war by Nadim Shehadi * Some reflections on events unfolding in Gaza by Vedran 'Maz' Maslic

Finally, don't forget to subscribe, rate, and share The Voices of War to help us continue exploring the complex narratives of war. To comment or take the conversation further, please connect with us here: https://www.thevoicesofwar.com https://www.twitter.com/twitter.com/thevoicesofwarhttps://au.linkedin.com/company/the-voices-of-warhttps://www.youtube.com/youtube.com/thevoicesofwar

Join The Voices Of War at https://thevoicesofwar.supercast.com/. Can't afford the subscription? Email me for an alternative solution. Universities and educational institutions can always reach out for full access to episode files.

--- Today, I spoke with Dr David Livingstone Smith, who is a philosophy professor at the University of New England. He specialises in the study of dehumanisation and mass violence. David is the author of several award-winning books, including ‘Less Than Human: Why We Demean, Enslave and Exterminate Others’ as well as ‘On Inhumanity: Dehumanization and How to Resist It’. David’s most recent book that is: 'Making Monsters, The Uncanny Power of Dehumanisation'. David joined me to provide his expert opinion on dehumanisation we are witnessing as part of the ongoing war between Israel and Hamas. Key Topics Covered:* Dehumanisation and Its Roots: David delves into the psychological and social aspects of dehumanisation, explaining how it serves as a precursor to violence. * Israel-Hamas Conflict: A focus on the risks and implications of dehumanisation in the ongoing war between Israel and Hamas. * The Role of Fear: David discusses how politicians, particularly authoritarian ones, capitalise on fear to manipulate behaviour. * Social Dynamics: The conversation touches on how social forces and community behaviour can either inhibit or encourage violence. * The Power of Public Opinion: David emphasises the need for influential voices to steer public opinion towards constructive solutions.

Resources: * You can find my previous discussion with David here. * David’s Substack, which includes all the essays he mentioned is available here. * Less Than Human: Why We Demean, Enslave and Exterminate Others * On Inhumanity: Dehumanization and How to Resist It

Finally, don't forget to subscribe, rate, and share The Voices of War to help us continue exploring the complex narratives of war. To comment or take the conversation further, please connect to us here:

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Dehumanisation #IsraelHamasConflict #SocialDynamics #TheVoicesOfWar #DavidLivingstonSmith #IsraelPalestineWar #IsraelHamasWar #Israel #Palestine #Hamas

On Inhumanity: Dehumanization and How to Resist It

Making Monsters: The Uncanny Power of Dehumanization

Less Than Human: Why We Demean, Enslave, and Exterminate Others

My guest today is Chris Gunness who is a seasoned journalist and diplomat with decades of experience reporting on and working in the Middle East. Chris began his career at the BBC in 1982, and for 23 years, he served in numerous capacities including reporter and foreign correspondent. In 2005, he transitioned to diplomacy, joining the United Nations Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process, and later became the Spokesman for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNWRA). Post-UN, Chris founded the Myanmar Accountability Project in 2021, which brings criminal prosecutions against members of the Myanmar Junta and he is currently the Director of this initiative.

Chris joined me for his reflections on the tragic escalation of violence in Israel and across Gaza and the West Bank.

Some of the topics we covered include:

Underlying Causes of Conflict: Chris delved into the root causes of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, highlighting the blockade of Gaza, the ongoing Israeli occupation and unfettered settlement expansion.
The Blockade of Gaza: Chris discussed Israel's control over Gaza's land, sea, and air borders, emphasising the humanitarian crisis this has caused.
Dehumanisation: Chris talks about the ‘Red Lines’ policy and how it reflects the dehumanisation of Palestinians.
Role of the International Community: Critical reflection on the international community's role in perpetuating the conflict, particularly the U.S.'s unwavering support for Israel.
Need for a Mandela Figure: Chris suggested that the conflict needs a leader with a vision of peace and the courage to see it through.
Israeli Cabinet's Rhetoric: He points out the dehumanising language used by some Israeli cabinet ministers, such as ‘Gaza needs to be put on a diet’

Resources:

Professor Rashid Khalidi - Understanding the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: An Exploration of Root Causes and Geopolitical Dynamics

Finally, don't forget to subscribe, rate, and share The Voices of War to help us continue exploring the complex narratives of war. To comment or take the conversation further, please connect to us here:

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In today's episode, I am honoured to host Professor Rashid Khalidi, a distinguished scholar and the Edward Said Professor of Modern Arab Studies at Columbia University. Known for his profound insights into Middle Eastern politics, Professor Khalidi is also the author of the ground-breaking book ‘100 Years' War on Palestine: A History of Settler Colonialism and Resistance, 1917–2017’. He joined me to discuss the intricate dynamics of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the geopolitics of the Middle East, and the role of international actors in shaping the region. Given the ongoing escalation of violence in Israel and across the Occupied Territories, the importance of nuance cannot be understated.

Some of the topics we covered include:

Historical Roots of Zionism: Understand the pivotal roles played by Britain and the United States in the creation of Israel and support of Zionism.
Israeli Settlement Expansion: Explore the controversial policies surrounding Israeli settlement expansion and their impact on the region.
Life Under Occupation: Gain insights into the daily struggles faced by Palestinians living under Israeli occupation.
Western Hypocrisy in International Politics: Examine the dichotomy between interests and values, and how Western nations often display hypocrisy in their international political stances.
Religious Influence in Israeli Politics: Delve into the role of religious ideologies in shaping Israeli political policies.
De Facto Annexation of Palestinian Territories: Learn about the unofficial yet impactful annexation of Palestinian lands by Israel.
Challenges in Palestinian Diplomacy: Understand the hurdles faced by Palestinian leadership in their diplomatic efforts.
Global Geopolitics and the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Explore how the conflict fits into broader geopolitical trends and alliances.
The 'Shared Values' Argument Between the U.S. and Israel: Examine the evolving narrative of 'shared values' and its implications for U.S.-Israel relations.
Potential for Change in Israeli-Palestinian Relations: Discuss the possibilities for meaningful change in the conflict, particularly in the context of shifting global public opinion.

Don't miss this enlightening episode that offers a comprehensive and nuanced understanding of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Middle Eastern geopolitics, and the role of international actors.

Resources:

Professor Rashid Khalidi’s book: The Hundred Years' War on Palestine: A History of Settler Colonialism and Resistance, 1917-2017

Finally, don't forget to subscribe, rate, and share The Voices of War to help us continue exploring the complex narratives of war. To comment or take the conversation further, please connect to us here:

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Today, I welcome back Carl Miller, a leading expert in the ethics of artificial intelligence and the Research Director at Demos, a UK-based think tank. After his insightful discussion on information warfare, cyber-attacks, and weaponisation of social media in Episode 51, Carl returns to delve deeper into the ethical, social, and political ramifications of AI. From exploring the centralisation of power in AI development to discussing real-world case studies on deepfake technology and ethical risks, this episode offers a comprehensive look at the complex landscape of AI governance and ethics. Carl also shares inspiring stories of AI's potential for social good, making this a must-listen for anyone interested in the future of AI and its impact on society.

As you’ll hear, Carl also shared details about his latest project Recursive Public, an experiment in identifying areas of consensus and disagreement among the international AI community, policymakers, and the public on key questions of governance. Please consider supporting this important and worthwhile AI governance project. You can register here.

Some of the other topics we covered are:

A Think Tanker's Foray into AI Ethics
- Carl’s background in public policy and his role at Demos, a leading UK think tank with a focus on AI ethics and governance.
Understanding Power Dynamics in the AI Era
- Carl defines the concept of power in the digital age and its implications for AI governance.
- Categorising different forms of power, including economic and coercive power, and how they relate to AI development.
Who Holds the Reins of AI? The Centralisation of Power
- An in-depth look into the entities that hold the levers of power in AI, from tech giants to governmental bodies.
Centralisation of AI Technologies
- Discussion on the centralisation of AI technologies like GPT and its societal implications.
Fostering a Collaborative Community in AI
- Carl emphasises the need for a less hostile, more collaborative approach to AI ethics and governance.
Ethical Concerns: AI's Potential for Social Harm
- Exploration of the ethical risks associated with AI, particularly in polarised societies and areas lacking human rights frameworks.
The Agency of AI: A Risk Assessment
- Discussion on the conditions under which AI could become a dangerous entity, including the potential for autonomous action.
Deepfakes and Misinformation: A Case Study
- A real-world example of how deepfake technology was utilised to create misleading news broadcasts in Venezuela.
Positive AI Use Cases: Empowering the Marginalised
- Inspiring stories from India where AI is bridging the digital divide and improving access to government services.
Future of AI Ethics
- The episode concludes with a look at what's next in the field of AI ethics and governance.

Resources:

Carl Miller's Book: The Death of the Gods
Intelligence Squared Podcast
Episode 51 with Carl Miller

Finally, don't forget to subscribe, rate, and share The Voices of War to help us continue exploring the complex narratives of war. To comment or take the conversation further, please connect to us here:

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In this compelling episode, we explore the challenges and realities of anti-war activism in Russia with Moscow-based educator and activist, Vlad Sakovich. From the risks of questioning the regime to the complexities of fostering dialogue, Vlad provides a nuanced look into the intricacies of activism in a restrictive environment.

Brief Summary of Vlad Sakovich:

Vlad Sakovich is a Moscow-based educator, psychologist, and anti-war activist. Despite the risks associated with his work, Vlad has been deeply involved in grassroots dialogue initiatives and anti-war movements since the 2014 Donbas War and Crimea's annexation. He facilitates open forums for Russians to discuss the war and runs an online course on civic facilitation, aiming to change the Russian narrative surrounding the conflict.

Key points covered in the conversation:

Introduction to Vlad Sakovich
- Background as an educator, psychologist, and anti-war activist
- Initiatives like open forums and online courses on civic facilitation
Motivations for Activism
- Gradual involvement sparked by a series of incidents
- Initial focus on societal change while being apolitical
Turning Point in Activism
- Connection and subsequent disconnect with a Ukrainian mediator at an international conference
- Realisation of the need for dialogue in conflict situations
Challenges and Realities in Russia
- The diverse profiles of those supporting the invasion
- The risks associated with questioning the Russian regime
- The difficulties of fostering dialogue in a restrictive environment
- The sparse network of anti-war activists in Russia
- The impact of legislation criminalising dissent
- The emotional toll of activism in a high-risk setting
Work and Objectives
- The compelling need to take action
- Various trials and efforts in fostering dialogue
- The importance of grassroots initiatives in a country where top-down change is unlikely

This episode offers a rare glimpse into the challenges of anti-war activism in Russia, a topic often shrouded in complexity and risk. While this episode remains free to all, please consider subscribing to The Voices Of War here, to gain access to all other episodes. I thank you for supporting the show.

Lastly, to find out more about the excellent initiative by my friends over at IN2 Comms I mentioned in the intro, please go here.

Thank you for listening. To comment or take the conversation further, please connect to us here:

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In today's episode, I sit down with Dr. Jonathan French Flint, an Inamori Research Associate at Case Western Reserve University with a focus on military ethics and strategic theory.

Dr. Flint has a background in teaching in the UK and has presented his work at a range of academic venues, including the United States Army Command and General Staff College. He has also made contributions to military ethics literature, notably with the International Committee of the Red Cross, and has appeared on the Canadian CTV Network as an expert discussing the war in Ukraine and broader issues in military and international affairs.

Our conversation aims to explore the complexities of Strategic Theory, particularly its role in informing decisions about war. Dr. Flint brings a unique perspective to this subject, advocating for the inclusion of ethical considerations in strategic planning for conflict.

Here are some of the key topics we cover:

Pathway to Specialisation: Dr. Flint shares how he entered the niche field of military ethics and Strategic Theory.
Unlocking Strategic Theory: We examine what Strategic Theory entails and the problems it seeks to solve.
Defining 'Victory': We discuss the often-ambiguous term 'Victory' in the context of warfare.
'Wars of Choice' Conundrum: Dr. Flint elaborates on the difficulties tied to defining victory in wars of choice.
Ethics vs. Interests: A look into the tension between moral values and geopolitical interests in 'wars of choice'.
Moral Injury: An exploration of the concept of 'moral injury' as it relates to ‘wars of choice’.
Ethical Frameworks: We discuss General McChrystal's concepts of 'Courageous Restraint' and 'Insurgent Math'.
Moral Compass: The conversation turns to defining the difference between morals, morality, and ethics in warfare.
Case Studies: Dr. Flint briefly outlines his thesis, examining the Falklands and Kosovo conflicts through an ethical lens.
Accountability: We close with a discussion on the responsibility of senior political and military figures for unethical actions on the battlefield.

This episode provides a nuanced exploration of the ethical considerations in Strategic Theory and warfare. It's a thought-provoking listen for those interested in going beyond surface-level discussions about conflict.

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Today's episode is a compelling and insightful conversation with Yousuf Sediq, a former Afghan Special Forces Operator and the author of '5000 Days of War: The Firsthand Account of an Afghan Special Forces Operator.'

About Our Guest, Yousuf Sediq

Yousuf's book is an honest and vivid portrayal of his experiences in the Afghan war, offering unparalleled insight through the eyes of a native Afghan who grew up under Taliban rule. Following the fall of the Taliban in 2001, Yousuf's journey took him from an interpreter for the Coalition Forces to becoming a squadron commander in the ultra-secret Task Force-241. He also played a key role in the security of the Kabul International Airport during the chaotic withdrawal in August 2021.

In This Episode, You'll Learn About * Life Under the Taliban: Growing up under the oppressive rule of the Taliban in Afghanistan. * Joining the Battle: The personal journey of Yousuf Sediq in joining with the Coalition Forces in the fight against the Taliban. * Interpreter on the Frontline: Yousuf's initial experiences and the vital role of interpreters in the Afghan war. * The Plight of Coalition Interpreters: A detailed discussion on the challenges and misunderstood lives of interpreters. * Private Company Treatment of Interpreters: An exploration of employment conditions for interpreters in Afghanistan. * Understanding Afghan Local Context: The significance of cultural and local insight in military operations. * Surviving Explosions and Brain Injury: The effects and recovery from severe war injuries. * The Rise to Task Force 241: Yousuf's entry and progression through the Afghan Commandos to Task Force 241. * Inside Task Force 241: An in-depth look at the secret unit, its missions, impact, and capabilities in Afghanistan. * Legal Prosecution of Taliban Fighters: The legal complexities and challenges surrounding the prosecution of the Taliban. * Engagement Rules within Task Force 241: An examination of ethical guidelines and conduct within the secretive unit. * CIA-Funded Units & War Crime Allegations: A critical discussion on controversial actions and allegations within Afghanistan. * Trust in the Shadows of Task Force 241: Why trust plays a crucial role within military units. * Defending Kabul with Task Force 241: The vital role of Task Force 241 during the fall of Kabul in 2021. * Afghan Civilians & Security Forces: Insights into how Afghan civilians perceive their security forces. * Post-Taliban Takeover Allegiances: The shifting political and tribal alliances following the resurgence of the Taliban. * Afghanistan's Uncertain Future: Reflections and predictions on the prospects for Afghanistan.

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In today's episode, my guest is Lieutenant Colonel Kevin Cutright, a prominent Associate Professor in the Department of English and Philosophy at the US Military Academy, West Point. Kevin's extensive in-the-field experiences have fuelled his exploration into the ethical aspects of military planning and conduct, the role of empathy, and the concept of moral injury.

We delve deep into the significance of empathy in military operations, a subject comprehensively covered in Kevin's newly published book, 'The Empathetic Soldier.' Not only relevant but his insights on empathy are also crucial for military personnel and those responsible for making war decisions.

During our conversation, we shed light on several pivotal points:

Kevin's military background and experiences.
Benefits of the US Military's academic approach.
Origins of Kevin's interest in empathy.
Defining empathy: challenges and nuances.
Differentiating between etic and emic perceptions of the world.
Role and value of empathy in operational contexts.
Security Force Assistance Brigades: their purpose and capabilities.
Mitigating the potential risks of operational empathy.
Intersection of empathy with the principles of 'Just Cause' and 'Right Intention' in warfare.
Exploring 'Moral Injury': its definition and its ties with empathy.
Methods and significance of empathy training.
Using empathy as an instrument for understanding adversaries, mitigating bias, and enhancing decision-making.
Discussing the critical role of 'strategic empathy.'

Join us in this engaging dialogue as we unpack these topics, offering a fresh perspective on empathy's role within the military realm.

Thank you for listening. To comment or take the conversation further, please connect to us here:

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—

My guest today is Heidi Langbein-Allen who recently published the memoirs of her father, Willi Langbein, who at the age of 13 was forced to fight for the Nazis.

The book is called ‘Save the Last Bullet: Memoir of a boy soldier in Hitler’s Army’ and it vividly explores the use of propaganda and misinformation to give moral weight to an otherwise losing and abhorrent cause. It is also a story of lost innocence and despair in the face of circumstances beyond the control of fully grown adults, let alone children and teenagers. But it is also a story of determination, resilience, and hope, nurtured in the ruins of post-war Germany.

Some of the topics we covered are:

Nazi propaganda's deliberate targeting of children and youth
Indoctrination techniques used in organisations like the Jung Volk and Hitler Jugend
Structural changes made to history and national narrative to align with Nazi ideology
Willi Langbein's personal motivation to share his story and experiences
The brutal enforcement of collective punishment and forced submission to authority by the SS
The significance behind Willi's first battle and the concept of ‘saving the last bullet’
Willi's experiences during the physical end of the war and his treatment as a person under confinement
How German soldiers and citizens perceived German atrocities during the war
Germany's handling of collective guilt in the aftermath of World War II
Transforming despair into hope in the face of post-war challenges
Heidi's upbringing with an emotionally unavailable father and its impact on her life
The positive reception of the book and its ability to resonate with young readers
The reasons behind positive reviews from the Jewish community regarding the book
Heidi's ongoing projects and plans for the future

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Today, I spoke with Dr Mike Martin who is one of the go-to voices for insights and analysis of the war in Ukraine.

Mike has authored several books, amongst which is still one of my favourites on conflict titled ‘Why We Fight’. Mike also recently released a new book titled, ‘How to Fight a War’, that details why wars are won and why they are lost. The book is getting released in Australia on the 1st of July and can be ordered here.

Mike joins me today for an update on the war in Ukraine, especially on the events that transpired in Russia over the past week. Some of the themes we discussed are:

Reasons for brittleness of autocratic regimes
Sawing of dissent within Russian ranks
The potential impact of the mutiny on the battlefield in Ukraine
Discussion on the seeming purge of Prigozhin’s allies
The possible shift of position by China
Potential future scenarios

Recent previous episodes with Dr Mike Martin:

https://thevoicesofwar.com/68-special-release-dr-mike-martin-and-john-spencer-an-update-on-ukraine/
https://thevoicesofwar.com/58-dr-mike-martin-and-ltgen-ret-arne-dalhaug-update-on-the-russian-invasion-of-ukraine/
https://thevoicesofwar.com/20-dr-mike-martin-update-on-unfolding-situation-in-afghanistan/

Why We Fight

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Today, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Neil Greenberg, an esteemed clinical and academic psychiatrist based at King's College London. With a remarkable 23 years of experience in the United Kingdom Armed Forces, Neil has provided psychiatric care and conducted extensive research in challenging environments, including Afghanistan and Iraq.

In addition to his invaluable practical experience, Neil has made significant contributions to the field of psychiatry, with over 120 published scientific papers and book chapters. He is widely recognised as an expert speaker on topics such as psychological well-being in the UK Armed Forces, traumatic stress management, and occupational mental health. Notably, Neil was also involved in the appeal trial of Royal Marine Sergeant Alexander Blackman, a high-profile case concerning the killing of an injured Afghan insurgent.

During our conversation, Neil shared valuable insights on the crucial issue of mental health within military and veteran communities. Here are some of the key topics we discussed:

· Neil's background in the UK Armed Forces and qualification as a Green Beret · Most common mental health issues faced by military personnel · Distinguishing between PTSD, Adjustment Disorder, and Depression · Risk factors of mental health challenges in the military · How to reduce the risk of mental health injuries · Understanding Moral Injury and its three primary causes · The inoculating effect of a meaningful narrative · What makes otherwise morally sound people do unethical deeds · The role of leadership in maintaining mental health · Individual moral degradation vs group moral degradation · Distinguishing between a psychologically good and psychologically bad war · Blurring of the morality line by operational ineffectiveness · The case of Royal Marine, Sergeant Blackman, associated war crimes trial, and appeal · Finding solutions in combat that may clash with our moral compass and society's expectations · The unique nature of Sergeant Blackman's case and its role as a precedent to account for the impact of war on soldiers' mental health · The importance of considering how mental health challenges impact families and the broader community

TheVoicesOfWar #mentalhealth #military #veterans #psychiatrist #research #traumaticstress #PTSD #occupationalhealth #peerledsupport #TRiM #UKArmedForces #King'sCollegeLondon #deployment #hostileenvironments #traumamanagement #organisationalhealth #psychologicalwellbeing #combatstress #veterancommunity #mentalhealthawareness #warcrimes #moraldrift

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My guest today is Hasan Aygun, who is a prominent Turkish security analyst with an extensive career in international relations, global security issues and conflict management both as a diplomat and later as a political adviser.

Some of our long-time listeners might recognise Hasan’s biography, as he appeared on the show all the way back in June of 2021. To hear more about Hasan’s extensive background and experiences, listen here.

Today, however, Hasan joins me to discuss the results of the recent Turkish elections and possible implications for the country, the region, and the rest of the world.

Some of the topics we discussed are:

Hasan’s observations of the electoral process in Turkey
The historical context to Turkish politics and Erdogan’s rise to power
Description of the three dominant social groups determining election results
Gradual decline into authoritarianism and its effects on the ‘fairness’ of Turkish elections
Analysing the arrest of Istanbul’s mayor and credible rival to Erdogan, Ekrem Imamoglu
Exploring the factors behind Turkey’s rapid economic decline
Ownership of television and print media in Turkey and its impact on public discourse
Suppression of dissenting voices and threats to journalists in Turkey
The exploitation of migrants and Syrian refugees for political gain in Turkey
The influence of the February earthquake on voter sentiment in Turkey
The diminishing state of democracy in Turkey and its consequences
Evaluating the geopolitical winners and losers following Erdogan’s victory
Examining Turkey’s relationship with NATO and its implications
The ‘F-35 Affair’ and its effects on Turkey-US relations
Turkey’s ties with Russia and the consequences of Finland joining and Sweden’s imminent entry into NATO
Exploring rumours surrounding Erdogan’s health issues

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--- Today, I spoke with Dr Greta Uehling, who is a lecturer at the University of Michigan and whose scholarship is concerned with international migration and forced displacement. Her most recent project explored the subjective experience of the military conflict and forced displacement in Ukraine. Based on years of research living in Ukraine, she documented how the military conflict that started in 2014 reconfigured social worlds and how these social worlds became the site of a different, everyday kind of war. She recently published a book stemming from this research titled ‘Everyday War: The Conflict over Donbas, Ukraine’. Some of the topics we covered are:· Greta's background, entry into anthropology, and her fieldwork in Ukraine· The birth of her book 'Everyday War: The Conflict over Donbas, Ukraine'· Meaning and manifestations of 'Everyday War'· Unique identity of the Donbas in Ukraine and its role in the Russia-Ukraine conflict· Importance of cultural and social immersion for understanding context· Perception differences of the war in different parts of Ukraine (2014-2022)· Impact of war on interpersonal relationships and fallout management strategies· Defining and contextualising 'Everyday Peace'· The story of the 'Black Tulips'· Influence of war on risk perception and redefinition of 'normal'· Prospects of peace in Ukraine During this episode, I referred to a discussion with a previous guest, Tomislav Cvitanusic. You can listen to that episode here.

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My guest today is Dr David Kilcullen, who is a renowned military strategist, scholar, and former soldier and diplomat who has served both the Australian and United States governments for three decades now. He is an expert in the fields of guerrilla warfare, terrorism, urbanisation, and the future of conflict. David has authored several influential books, including ‘The Accidental Guerrilla’, ‘Counterinsurgency’, ‘Out of the Mountains’, ‘The Dragons and Snakes: How the Rest Leant to Fight the West’ and ‘The Ledger: Accounting for Failure in Afghanistan’. He has been named one of Foreign Policy's Top 100 Global Thinkers and has won numerous awards for his writing. His work is widely used by policymakers, the military, intelligence services, and development agencies around the world. Some of the topics we discussed are:· David’s background, military life, and journey into academia· Analysis of the fall of Kabul and the current situation in Afghanistan· Reflection on the power and influence of elites in the US and how their pursuit of selfish interests affects geopolitics· Competing partisan narratives in the US and their impact on global politics· Lack of accountability for the failures in Afghanistan and Iraq and its impact· Working towards preventing a potential war between the US and China as a national priority for Australia· Discussion on the likelihood and impact of a hot war between the US and China· Analysis of what the US-China contest is actually about· A discussion on the winners and losers in the 20th century· Reflection on Iraq as a pivotal moment for US global dominance· Loss of Western moral legitimacy and its impact· Australia’s position in a potential US-China conflict· Reflection on the recently announced Australian Defence Strategic Review· How Taiwan perceives China and how this shapes its strategic narrative· Reflection on the Russian invasion of Ukraine, its origins, and potential outcomes· China’s attempt to mediate between Ukraine and Russia, as well as Iran and Saudi Arabia· How social media undermines conflict discourse and stifles dialogue due to parallel realities· The importance of national sovereignty, industry, resilience, and sustainability· Discussion on the fact that increased sovereignty would impact the current standard of living and national wealth· Impact of the collapse of confidence in experts, institutions, and the political elite in the West· Reflection on the ongoing domestic tensions in the US and the risks associated with the 2024 presidential election· Dave's two key risks for the immediate future—ongoing erosion of civil liberties in the West and a weaponised pandemic

Join The Voices Of War exclusive community by subscribing today. Connect our private feed with your favourite pod-catcher at https://thevoicesofwar.supercast.com/

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----- My guest today is Dr Robert ‘Bob’ Bowker whose career in the politics and analysis of the Middle East spans five decades. He spent 37 years as an Australian diplomat in the region, firstly on postings to Saudi Arabia (74-06), and Syria (79-81) and later as the Australian ambassador to Jordan (89-92), Egypt (05-08) as well as non-resident ambassador to Syria, Libya, Tunisia, and Sudan. Bob also held senior roles at the United Nations Relief and Works Program for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (1997-1998,) based in Gaza and Jerusalem. Following his diplomatic career, Bob spent more than a decade as an academic, firstly as an Adjunct Professor and later as an Honorary Fellow at the ANU Centre for Arab and Islamic Studies. For a period of that time, Bob also served as an intelligence analyst with the Office of National Assessments. Bob recently published a memoir about his extensive career and personal attachment to the Middle East titled, ‘Tomorrow There Will Be Apricots: an Australian Diplomat in the Arab World’. Bob joins me today to discuss his book as well as his views on the state of the Middle East, its predominant and enduring fault lines, as well as the role of the West in the region. Some of the topics we covered are:· Bob’s introduction to Islam and the Arab World· Misrepresentation of the Arab World’s relationship with the West· Meaning of the book’s title and why it captures the sentiment of the Middle East· Importance of cross-cultural engagement for diplomatic success and understanding of power structures· Memorable cultural exchanges and their impact · The importance of history to societies of the Middle East· Western politicians' failure to consider culture and history when dealing with the Middle East· Analysis of the 2003 Iraq Invasion, its background, and failures· Australia’s involvement in the Iraq War · Whether Australia should debate a decision to go to war in the Parliament· Reconciling the tensions between national interests and promoting certain values· Bob’s work in Palestine with United Nations Relief and Works Program for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNWRA)· Analysis of the Palestine and Israel conflict and why peace remains untenable · Why the ‘Two State Solution’ is dead· The unwavering US support for Israel and the possibility of change· The future of Iran’s relationship with the West and the US· Prospects of Chinese success in mediating between Iran and Saudi Arabia

Join The Voices Of War exclusive community by subscribing today. Connect our private feed with your favourite pod-catcher at https://thevoicesofwar.supercast.com/

As a former refugee and migrant, I can appreciate that even a few dollars per month might be too much to spare on a podcast. If you are in this situation and cannot afford a subscription, please email me as I have an alternate solution for you.

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Today, I spoke with Will Storr, who is an award-winning writer whose work has appeared in titles such as The Guardian, The Sunday Times, The New Yorker and The New York Times. He is the author of six critically acclaimed books, including ‘Selfie: How the West became self-obsessed’, ‘The Heretics: Adventures with the enemies of science’, as well as the Sunday Times Bestseller ‘The Science of Storytelling’.

He also recently published the book 'The Status Game: On Human Life and How to Play It' and he joins me today to explore how status influences our behaviour, relationships, and how it contributes to so much of what’s good as well as bad in our world.

Some of the topics we covered are:

The Significance of Status: Understanding Its Purpose and Implications
Dominance, Virtue, and Success: The Three Types of Status Games You Need to Know
Cultural Influence on Status Games: Why Understanding Culture is Key
Influencing Social Groups: The Importance of Understanding their Culture and Status Dynamics
The Impact of Status on Physical and Psychological Wellbeing: What You Need to Know
Status Loss and Suicide Ideation: Understanding the Correlation
Genocide and National Status Loss: Examining the Link
Status in Culture Wars: Brexit, Trump, and the Role of Status Games
The Use of Status Games by Cultural Elites
Geopolitics and Status: Understanding Their Interconnection
Escaping Status Games: Is It Possible?
Playing a Hierarchy of Status Games: Why It Matters and How to Do It

The Status Game

Please note that this entire episode is available on the public channel. To gain access to all other episodes, please subscribe at https://thevoicesofwar.supercast.com/

Today, I spoke with Robert Hartley, who is a former Australian Army Officer who served for 12 years in the Artillery Corps before transitioning to a civilian career in the technology sector. During his time in the military, Robert deployed on exchange with the British Army on Operation Herrick XII (12) to Helmand Province, Afghanistan in 2010. In his civilian life, Robert has worked for a number of technology companies, including Microsoft, before joining a start-up where he is an Executive Director.

Robert joins me today to discuss his life in the Army, how his deployment to Helmand resulted in a PTSD diagnosis, as well as his journey to recovery, which includes being part of the ketamine trials that I discussed at length with Dr Alex Lim a few episodes ago.

Things we covered include:

Rob’s entry into the Army and the Artillery Corps
Rotation into Helmand with the British Army
The thrill of preparing for and going to war
Use of artillery as a direct-fire weapon
The reality of Helmand as the ‘kinetic province’
How the local population perceived the Coalition Forces
Dealing with numerous casualties
Reflecting on mateship, camaraderie, and sense of purpose
The process of desensitisation to war and combat
Reflection on the burden of command
The challenge of preserving one’s own moral compass
The struggle of upholding the delicate facade of morality in battle
The price of extreme compartmentalisation and rationalisation
Returning home, signs that things weren’t right and asking for help
Symptoms, PTSD diagnosis, and importance of command support
Short-term fixes but eventual relapse, downward spiral, and continual emotional compartmentalisation
The path to recovery and reconnecting to emotions
Joining Dr Alex Lim’s ketamine trial, onboarding, and treatment initiation
A reflection on the ketamine treatment, its sensations, experiences, and insights
Why ketamine remains contentious
How the ketamine treatment affected Rob’s relationships with his wife and children
Why seeking help matters!

During this discussion, we referred to the following previous episodes:

Ashley Judd – On combat, mental health and the road to recovery

Dr Alex Lim - On veterans’ mental health: the good, the bad and the promising

Given the nature of this discussion, and the fact that many in our audience are veterans, there is a risk that elements of this episode might be difficult listening for some. If this is the case, I encourage you to seek help through one of the many channels nowadays available, some of which are listed below (Australian audiences only):

All-hours Support Line

(1800 628 036 / +612 9425 3878 if O/S)

Open Arms (VVCS)

1800 011 046

https://www.openarms.gov.au/

1800 IMSICK

(1800 624 608)

Defence Community Organisation (DCO)

Defence Family Helpline

1800 624 608

http://www.defence.gov.au/dco/

Lifeline

13 11 14

https://www.lifeline.org.au

Suicide Call back service

1300 659 467

https://www.suicidecallbackservice.org.au

Soldier On

1300 620 380

www.soldieron.org.au

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Any universities or other educational establishments need only email me and I will share the full file with them of any episodes they wish to use.

As a former refugee and migrant, I can appreciate that even a few dollars per month might be too much to spare on a podcast. If you are in this situation and cannot afford a subscription, please email me as I have an alternate solution for you.

Today, I spoke with Dr Christopher Coyne, who is a Professor of Economics at George Mason University and the Associate Director of the F. A. Hayek Program for Advanced Study in Philosophy, Politics, and Economics at the Mercatus Center.

He is the author of five books and numerous academic articles, book chapters, and policy studies. He joins me today to discuss his latest book, In Search of Monsters to Destroy: The Folly of American Empire and the Paths to Peace (2022), which is a pragmatic and unashamedly critical appraisal of American foreign policy.

Some of the things we talked about are:

Chris’ background and entry into academia and
How and why training in economics shaped Chris’ worldview
Importance of understanding incentives and their power
An argument against the concept of a 'Hobbesian world'
Definition of the American Empire and its governance of 'dominion'
Dangers of crony capitalism and its ties to the Military Industrial Complex
Issues with broken or non-existent chains of accountability
Concerns surrounding the 'revolving door' principle
Origins of US militarism and the Permanent War Economy
Military Keynesianism and the 'Iron Triangle'
Limitations and unintended consequences of American interventionism
Unpredictability of complex systems
Impact of technological advances and the shift from 'defence' to 'offence'
Exploring alternatives to war

Previous episodes that address similar topics and were referenced in this discussion include:

Samuel Moyn - On ‘Humane: How the United States Abandoned Peace and Reinvented War‘
Marc Garlasco - War through the eyes of a Pentagon Chief of High Value Targeting
Amos Fox - Beyond the illusion of manoeuvre: Navigating the clash between intentions and reality in modern warfare

Join The Voices Of War exclusive community by subscribing today. Connect the private feed with your favourite pod-catcher at https://thevoicesofwar.supercast.com/

My guest today is Dr Elizabeth Boulton, who is an eco-military theorist with Destination Safe Earth, and a research affiliate with the ‘Climate Change & (In)Security Project’ which is a collaboration between the University of Oxford, the Centre for Historical Analysis and Conflict Research (CHACR) and the British Army.She joins me today to discuss her thinking behind the concepts of ‘Hyperthreat’, ‘Hyper-response’, and Plan E as a response to tackling climate change. Some of the topics we discussed are:• Elizabeth’s background and journey towards a PhD• Timothy Morton and the Hyperobject• Conceptualising climate change as a ‘Hyperthreat’ • Uncovering the disguised cause and effect of the ‘Hyperthreat’• ‘Entangled Security’ and why understanding it is crucial for tackling the climate crisis• The problem of establishing credibility about climate change• Corporate capture, competing priorities and corrupted incentives in the ‘Hyperthreat’• ‘Plan E’ and the essential steps to fight climate change• Reframing the idea of security for a sustainable future• Why a localised response is key to addressing the climate change ‘Hyperthreat’• Unlocking global creativity to achieve a ‘Hyper-response’• Testing the viability of ‘Plan E’ through wargaming• Increasing geopolitical tensions as a threat to climate change solutionsTo find out more about Elizabeth and her work, you can start here. #TheVoicesOfWar #PlanE, #hyperthreat, #EntangledSecurity, #ClimateChange, #Hyperobject, #Strategy, #ClimateEmergency, #Mobilization, #Transdisciplinary, #PlanetarySecurity, #SlowViolence, #SixthExtinctionEvent

My guest today is Amos Fox, who is an officer in the US Army with more than 24 years of service in uniform. Amos has written extensively on war and conflict over the past decade, producing over 60 publications. His work focuses on causal mechanisms to explain patterns in armed conflict. Much of Amos’ current writing addresses proxy war, land warfare, the Russo-Ukrainian War, and military thinking.

He joined me to discuss some of his views on the state of Western military thinking, particularly our potential over-reliance on the concept of manoeuvre warfare. Some of the topics we covered are:

Amos’ background in the military and path into academia
Influences of Amos’ first operational deployment in Iraq
Understanding the reality on the ground – when intentions clash
Defining manoeuvre warfare and its adoption by Western militaries
Lack of pragmatism and reality in Western doctrine – what you need to know
Why accurate and relevant doctrine matters for success in war
Learning from Liddell Hart and his relevance today
Debunking the illusion of manoeuvre in modern battles
Avoiding misapplication of past terminology in today's warfare
Battle of Mosul – Western usage of sieges examined
The Precision Paradox – what it means for modern warfare
Expanding doctrine to include Sieges, Urban Warfare, Proxy Warfare and re-imagined combined arms/joint warfare
Russian invasion of Ukraine – A case in point for modern warfare
The importance of questioning preconceived ideas for effective learning

During our chat, I made reference to my conversation with Marc Garlasco, Chief of High Value Targeting at the Pentagon between 1997 and 2003 where he led targeting teams during operations Iraqi Freedom, Desert Fox, and Allied Force. You can find that episode here.

Additionally, you can find all the articles Amos mentioned at the links below:

"Moving Beyond Mechanical Metaphors: Debunking the Applicability of Centers of Gravity in 21st Century Warfare," The Strategy Bridge, https://thestrategybridge.org/the-bridge/2017/6/2/moving-beyond-mechanical-metaphors-debunking-the-applicability-of-centers-of-gravity-in-21st-century-warfare.

"Ukraine and Proxy War: Improving Ontological Shortcomings in Military Thinking," Association of the United States Army, Land Warfare Paper 148, https://www.ausa.org/sites/default/files/publications/LWP-148-Ukraine-and-Proxy-War-Improving-Ontological-Shortcomings-in-Military-Thinking.pdf

"Maneuver is Dead? Understanding the Conditions and Components of Warfighting," RUSI Journal, https://doi.org/10.1080/03071847.2022.2058601.

"On Sieges," RUSI Journal, https://doi.org/10.1080/03071847.2021.1924077.

"The Reemergence of the Siege: An Assessment of Trends in Modern Land Warfare," Institute of Land Warfare, Land Power Essay 18-2, https://www.ausa.org/sites/default/files/LPE-18-2-The-Reemergence-of-the-Siege-An-Assessment-of-Trends-in-Modern-Land-Warfare.pdf.

"Sieges in Modern War," Presentation delivered at Harvard Law School, 31 March-1 April 2021, http://dx.doi.org/10.13140/RG.2.2.31870.25929.

Lastly, Amos has extended an invite to anyone who may with to take this conversation further to email him on amos.c.fox@gmail.com.

Join The Voices Of War exclusive community by subscribing today. Connect our private feed with your favourite pod-catcher here. ---- My guest today is Dr Alison Broinowski AM, who is an Australian academic, journalist, writer, and former Australian diplomat. She is also the President of Australians for War Powers Reform. Alison joined me to explore the current debate on Australian troop deployment, compare it to other democracies, and discuss the possible outcome of the ongoing parliamentary enquiry into war powers. Some of the topics we discussed are:· Alison's background and motivation for war powers reform · Changes in Australian defence policy during Prime Minister Howard's tenure· Impact of Global War on Terror on defence and foreign policy · The current approval process for military interventions · Proposed changes to the war approval process and potential impact · Benefits of a parliamentary vote for accountability · Risks of inaction and views on Responsibility to Protect (R2P) · Reflection on US hegemony and ANZUS treaty misunderstandings · Arguments against war powers reform · Possible impacts of Australian involvement in US-led wars · Parliamentary inquiry outcome and report release timing · Alison's greatest fears if war powers remain unchanged

My guest today is Dr Samir Puri, who is a visiting lecturer in War Studies at King’s College London and has previously taught at Cambridge and John Hopkins.

He joined me for a deep dive into his two most recent books. The first one, ‘The Great Imperial Hangover: How Empires Have Shaped the World’, explores how empires of the past still influence geopolitics today. And the second one, ‘Russia’s Road to War with Ukraine: Invasion amidst the ashes of empires’, published in late August, explores the role of imperialism in Putin’s ultimate decision to invade Ukraine and traces Ukraine’s fate as a nation caught in a geopolitical tug-of-war between Russia and the West.

Samir has also served as an international observer at five Ukrainian elections, including during the Orange Revolution in 2004. Soon after the first Donbas war began in 2014, he spent a year in east Ukraine working on both sides of the front line as part of an international ceasefire monitoring mission. Since Russia’s latest invasion of Ukraine, Samir’s analyses of the war have been featured by the BBC, Al Jazeera, Bloomberg, CNN, the Wall Street Journal, and other media outlets.

Some of the topics we discussed are:

Samir’s background and how it influenced his academic interests
Defining ‘empire’ and understanding the role of its legacy
Distinguishing between a formal and informal empire
The consequences of waning US hegemony and Pax Americana
The importance of history and lineage to national and individual identity
Understanding how imperial legacy contributed to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine
How Western democracies should navigate their imperial legacy
The significance of Ukraine for Russia and its imperial legacy
Proximity to history as crucial in shaping contemporary narratives
‘Great power contest’ as the present narrative
Exploring the structural reasons why Ukraine is currently a warzone
Understanding NATO and how it might be perceived outside of the alliance
Samir’s assessment of how the Russian invasion of Ukraine ends
Exploring the impact of the Russian invasion on Chinese post-imperial aspirations
Samir’s greatest concern as we head into 2023

This a reminder that The Voices Of War is transitioning to a subscription model from February. More info here.

Those wishing to subscribe can already do so here.

Today, I’m speaking with Professor Greg Barton, who is a Research Professor in Global Islamic Politics at Deakin University. Greg is one of Australia’s leading scholars of radicalisation, terrorism and countering violent extremism. He is frequently interviewed by the Australian and international media on these topics as well as on Indonesia and the politics of the Muslim world.

He joins me today for a deep dive into radicalisation, extremism, and terrorism as well as their causes and potential solutions.

Some of the topics we explored are:

Greg’s background and research in countering violent extremism (CVE)
Defining radicalisation, extremism, and terrorism
The explanation why Russia is not designated a terrorist state
Terrorism as a method
Dangers of ‘thought policing’
How to deal with extremism before it becomes violent
Explaining the ‘Push, Pull, Personal factors’ model to understand radicalisation
Systemic hate and its potential to fuel hateful extremism, violent extremism, and conflict violence
Similarities between recruiting into a military and a terrorist group
The role of social media in radicalisation
How online radicalisation occurs
Combating extremist propaganda
Effectiveness of counter-terrorism measures
The short-sightedness of military solutions to combat terrorism
How to prevent violent extremism
The Indonesian success in combating violent extremism as a case study
The growing threat of far-right extremism
Authoritarian populism as a key motivator behind far-right extremism
The potential risks of military veterans joining far-right groups
Pragmatic reflection about the risk to democracy in the US
Greg’s biggest fears for the next decade

This a reminder that The Voices Of War will adopt a subscription model. You can hear the explainer here.

You can subscribe to the new channel here.

--

My guest today is Dr Alexander YC Lim, who is an Adjunct Associate Professor of Medicine with the Queensland Brain Institute. He is a Psychiatrist in private practice, and now almost exclusively looks after members of the Australian Defence Force, the Australian Federal Police, and the veteran community more broadly.

In 2019, Dr Lim set up Australia’s first integrated ketamine program for veterans, known as the ReVive Ketamine Program. Starting in February 2023, this program will become the subject of an ethics-approved clinical study into the long-term effectiveness and safety of ketamine for treatment-resistant depression and treatment-resistant PTSD.

Dr Lim joined me today to discuss some of the mental health challenges faced by our veteran community and to shed light on some emerging treatments that could aid them on their path to wellness.

Some of the topics we covered are:

Dr Lim’s entry into psychiatry and veteran mental health
The current state of veteran mental health support
Difference between civilian and military/emergency services stressors
Understanding the impact of stress, trauma, and PTSD
Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder as a multi-system dysfunction
Total and Permanent Impairment and associated challenges
Moral injury and what causes it
How stress affects our physiology, decision-making ability, and ethical frameworks
The need to indoctrinate appropriate ethical frameworks as early as possible
Importance of developing trust between the patient and their clinician
Treating suicidality
Drop-out rates in traditional psychotherapy treatment
Why medications are not the ‘silver bullet’ for mental health concerns
Synaptic Disconnection Syndrome and the effect of PTSD on the structure of the brain
The issue of treatment-resistant illness and the promise of ketamine
Preliminary findings and prospects of ketamine for treatment-resistant illness
How to access the ketamine program for those with treatment-resistant illness

As mentioned in the introduction, you can find Australian Defence Force personnel suicide statistics here.

To make the show sustainable into the future, The Voices Of War is adopting a subscription model starting in January 2023. Key points:

This channel will air full episodes until the end of January to allow those who wish to subscribe time to transition to the new channel
From February, this current channel will air only the first half of each episode and each episode will be bookended with a notice and link to the subscriber-only channel
The current library on this channel will remain unchanged and access to all previous episodes will remain open
The subscription fee will be $ 4 USD per month, which roughly equates to $6 AUD or €3.75
A discounted annual subscription will also be available (2 free months)
Other options will exist for those who wish to give more, however, all tiers will unlock the same subscription
For anyone experiencing financial hardship and who genuinely cannot afford a subscription, please email me on info@thevoicesofwar.com as I have an alternate option
Any educational facility that uses the show's episodes as pre-course listening need only email me and I will make the full audio file of your desired episodes available, free of charge
Link to the new subscriber only channel will be included in the show notes of all future episodes on this channel

Thank you for listening to The Voices Of War and I wish you a happy and safe festive season.

Maz

My guest today is Ye-Min Wu, who is the South & Southeast Asia Director at the Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue. Ye-Min joined HD earlier this year after more than 15 years as a diplomat representing Singapore at the United Nations, World Intellectual Property Organization, UN Framework Convention on Climate Change as well as the World Trade Organisation. She has also chaired UN negotiations and represented the Group of 77 (plus China) in talks on sustainable development issues.

She joins me today to discuss how multilateral negotiations are conducted and explains some of the challenges as well as opportunities inherent in the process. Some of the topics we covered are:

Ye-Min’s path into diplomacy
Managing the ‘negotiation theatre’
Finding the win-win solution
Building trust and credibility in negotiations
Connecting to the ‘other’ and the importance of warmth
How multilateral negotiations are conducted
The difference between a nation’s bargaining position and its interests
How to successfully negotiate in Asia
Challenges of growing militarisation and insecurity in Asia
How Asian nations are managing China’s rise
Why peace agreements often fail
Ye-Min’s greatest fear and hope

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

My guest today is Natalia Konstantinova, who is better known by her social media handle, Natasha from Russia. She is a popular Russian blogger and vlogger whose original aim was to help explain Russia to the outside world, but since her country's invasion of Ukraine, she has become a prominent voice about how this war is perceived in Russia.

Some of the questions we explored are: What does the average Russian believe is happening in Ukraine? How much support is there for the invasion of Ukraine in Russia? What information is consumed by Russians? What does Russian domestic propaganda look like? How are the ongoing military losses perceived in Russia? What are the impacts of sanctions on Russia?

Some other topics we covered are:

Commentating against the war from inside Russia
Challenges and support for protesters in Russia
Style of repression in Russia
Reality about elections in Putin’s Russia
How everyday Russians view the ongoing invasion of Ukraine
Reasons behind Russian apathy towards the invasion of Ukraine
Reflection on the impact of sanctions and how Russia is adapting
Information that is available in Russia and what Russians watch, read, and listen to
The dominance and influence of propaganda
What Russians know about the death of their soldiers
Natasha’s humanitarian efforts in Mariupol

You can follow Natasha on TikTok, Twitter, Instagram or Facebook, for more of her work.

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

My guest today is Andrew Quilty, an Australian photojournalist, investigative journalist, and author. Andrew is the recipient of eight Walkley Awards, including the Gold Walkley, for his work in Afghanistan, where he has been based since 2013. He joined me to discuss his recently published book, August in Kabul: America's last days in Afghanistan, which is an intimate and deeply personal account of the fall of Kabul and the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan in August last year. Andrew was one of a handful of foreign journalists who remained in Kabul to witness and document this event.

Some of the topics we covered are:

Andrew’s exit from Afghanistan
Reflection on the birth and message of Andrew’s book ‘August in Kabul’
Hedging your bets as a means of survival in Afghanistan
The reality faced by everyday Afghans after the fall of Kabul
Reflection on the support for the Taliban throughout Afghanistan
The muddy nature of relationships across front lines
Why the Afghan government collapsed so quickly on 15 August 2021
The US-Taliban agreement in Doha
Impact of US military and logistical support withdrawal on the Afghan National Security Forces
Government lack of legitimacy in the eye of everyday people
The fall of Kabul on 15 August 2021 as observed from the ground
Survivor guilt and hardships of refugees
ISIS Kabul Airport attack and hell at Abbey Gate
US drone strike and impact of collateral damage
The reality and challenges of regime change
Andrew’s future

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

The Australian Podcast Awards are taking votes for the Listeners' Choice Award! Please take 30 seconds to vote for The Voices Of War. You can do it here.

Thank you!

Maz

Today, I'm speaking with Dr Pauline Shanks Kaurin who is a Professor of Professional Military Ethics at the US Naval War College where she specialises in military ethics, just war tradition and applied ethics.

She is the author of ‘On Obedience: Contrasting Philosophies for Military, Citizenry and Community’, which is a book we discussed today. As you will find out, the subject matter this book addresses goes to the core of what it means to be a soldier and to be a citizen. Some of the topics we covered are:

Military ethics as the link between international relations and philosophy
Defining obedience
Discussion on ‘choice’ and moral responsibility
Impact of mis- and disinformation on agency
Trump, ‘Oath Keepers’ and obedience
How bias and heuristics impact responsibility
The cases of Ehren Watada and Stuart Schiller
The idea of ‘disciplined disobedience’
When epistemological worlds collide
Training for ‘critical obedience’

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

On Obedience: Contrasting Philosophies for the Military Citizenry and Community (Standford Studies in Jewish History and Culture)

Today, I'm speaking with Dr Pauline Shanks Kaurin who is a Professor of Professional Military Ethics at the US Naval War College where she specialises in military ethics, just war tradition and applied ethics.

She is the author of ‘On Obedience: Contrasting Philosophies for Military, Citizenry and Community’, which is a book we discussed today. As you will find out, the subject matter this book addresses goes to the core of what it means to be a soldier and to be a citizen. Some of the topics we covered are:

Military ethics as the link between international relations and philosophy
Defining obedience
Discussion on ‘choice’ and moral responsibility
Impact of mis- and disinformation on agency
Trump, ‘Oath Keepers’ and obedience
How bias and heuristics impact responsibility
The cases of Ehren Watada and Stuart Schiller
The idea of ‘disciplined disobedience’
When epistemological worlds collide
Training for ‘critical obedience’

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

On Obedience: Contrasting Philosophies for the Military Citizenry and Community (Standford Studies in Jewish History and Culture)

This is Part 2 of my discussion with Dr Jasmin Mujanovic. If you haven’t listened to part 1 yet, I suggest you do that first, as elements of the remainder of the conversation may otherwise seem out of context. You can listen to part 1 here.

Some of the topics we cover in this part are:

Details of the controversial electoral law amendment made by the High Representative
Perceptions, real or otherwise, of the High Representative’s bias and conflict of interest
Croat nationalism and its influence
The role of Croatia and Serbia in Bosnia’s integrity and sovereignty
EU vs NATO prospects for Bosnia and Herzegovina
What role Russia plays in the Western Balkans
The machinations to redesign the Western Balkans
Assessment of the likelihood of renewed violence in Bosnia and Herzegovina

Thank you for listening and if you’re getting value out of the show, please consider becoming a patron of The Voices Of War here.

This is Part 2 of my discussion with Dr Jasmin Mujanovic. If you haven’t listened to part 1 yet, I suggest you do that first, as elements of the remainder of the conversation may otherwise seem out of context. You can listen to part 1 here.

Some of the topics we cover in this part are:

Details of the controversial electoral law amendment made by the High Representative
Perceptions, real or otherwise, of the High Representative’s bias and conflict of interest
Croat nationalism and its influence
The role of Croatia and Serbia in Bosnia’s integrity and sovereignty
EU vs NATO prospects for Bosnia and Herzegovina
What role Russia plays in the Western Balkans
The machinations to redesign the Western Balkans
Assessment of the likelihood of renewed violence in Bosnia and Herzegovina

Thank you for listening and if you’re getting value out of the show, please consider becoming a patron of The Voices Of War here.

My guest today is Dr Jasmin Mujanovic, who is a political scientist and policy specialist in southeast European and international affairs. He has worked as a scholar, policy analyst, consultant, researcher, and writer in both North America and Europe.

Jasmin’s academic research concentrates primarily on the politics of contemporary south-eastern Europe, with a particular focus on the politics of the non-EU states of the Western Balkans. He joins me today to discuss the unfolding constitutional crisis in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Some of the topics discussed in Part 1 are:

The political system of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Embedded tensions in Bosnian politics
Political actors in Bosnia and Herzegovina
Impact of Serb and Croat nationalism in Bosnia
Status of the 2nd of October general elections
Irregularities in the election
Victory of Pro-Bosnian candidates in the Federation entity
Attempts of further sectarian segregation by nationalists

Part 2 will be released on Thursday, 27th of October where we do a deep dive into the controversial decision by the High Representative to change the electoral law on the night of the elections. We also explore what this means for Bosnia and Herzegovina more broadly and what role regional and global powers play in the nation’s future.

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

My guest today is Dr Jasmin Mujanovic, who is a political scientist and policy specialist in southeast European and international affairs. He has worked as a scholar, policy analyst, consultant, researcher, and writer in both North America and Europe.

Jasmin’s academic research concentrates primarily on the politics of contemporary south-eastern Europe, with a particular focus on the politics of the non-EU states of the Western Balkans. He joins me today to discuss the unfolding constitutional crisis in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Some of the topics discussed in Part 1 are:

The political system of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Embedded tensions in Bosnian politics
Political actors in Bosnia and Herzegovina
Impact of Serb and Croat nationalism in Bosnia
Status of the 2nd of October general elections
Irregularities in the election
Victory of Pro-Bosnian candidates in the Federation entity
Attempts of further sectarian segregation by nationalists

Part 2 will be released on Thursday, 27th of October where we do a deep dive into the controversial decision by the High Representative to change the electoral law on the night of the elections. We also explore what this means for Bosnia and Herzegovina more broadly and what role regional and global powers play in the nation’s future.

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

My guest today is Wolfgang Sporrer who is an Adjunct Professor at the Hertie School in Berlin and who was until 2020 the head of the Human Dimension Department of the OSCE in Ukraine.

Wolfgang has joined me on the show twice before, where we discussed the lead-up to the Russian invasion of Ukraine as well as the ultimate reasons and consequences of Putin’s decision to go to war. You can find links to those episodes here and here.

He joins me today to discuss the importance of diplomacy occurring in parallel to the war effort. Some of the topics we covered are:

Assessment of the current situation
Peace process and combat operations not mutually exclusive
Explaining mediation and different tracks
Relevance of a Mutually Hurting Stalemate
Appreciating the wide-ranging costs of the invasion
Expanding already existing dialogue mechanisms
Mediation must not have an end in mind
An example process with two tracks
German and Austrian sentiment towards the invasion
Military effort along with diplomacy essential
Focus on re-establishing European security architecture

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. If you can afford $AUD 5 per month, you can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

My guest today is Wolfgang Sporrer who is an Adjunct Professor at the Hertie School in Berlin and who was until 2020 the head of the Human Dimension Department of the OSCE in Ukraine.

Wolfgang has joined me on the show twice before, where we discussed the lead-up to the Russian invasion of Ukraine as well as the ultimate reasons and consequences of Putin’s decision to go to war. You can find links to those episodes here and here.

He joins me today to discuss the importance of diplomacy occurring in parallel to the war effort. Some of the topics we covered are:

Assessment of the current situation
Peace process and combat operations not mutually exclusive
Explaining mediation and different tracks
Relevance of a Mutually Hurting Stalemate
Appreciating the wide-ranging costs of the invasion
Expanding already existing dialogue mechanisms
Mediation must not have an end in mind
An example process with two tracks
German and Austrian sentiment towards the invasion
Military effort along with diplomacy essential
Focus on re-establishing European security architecture

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. If you can afford $AUD 5 per month, you can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

This is Part 2 of my discussion with Dr Alex Bellamy, author of ‘World Peace And How We Can Achieve It’, which was the basis for our discussion. If you haven’t listened to Part 1 yet, I suggest you do that first as some discussions in part 2 might otherwise seem out of context. You can listen to part 1 here.

Like in part 1, we covered many topics, including:

Are humans wired for violence?
How states can actively reduce the likelihood of war
Clash of ‘Helsinki’ vs ‘Yalta’ visions
The paradox of US hegemony
The UN as a global project
Discussion on Interests vs Values
Military Industrial Complex and acquisition of arms
The role of International Humanitarian Law
Implementing the laws we already have to achieve Peace
Rivalry between competing visions on how the world should be organised

During this chat, Alex and I discussed Samuel Moyn's book, 'Humane: How the United States Abandoned Peace and Reinvented War'. I previously spoke with Samuel about this book and its thesis. You can find that interview here.

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

This is Part 2 of my discussion with Dr Alex Bellamy, author of ‘World Peace And How We Can Achieve It’, which was the basis for our discussion. If you haven’t listened to Part 1 yet, I suggest you do that first as some discussions in part 2 might otherwise seem out of context. You can listen to part 1 here.

Like in part 1, we covered many topics, including:

Are humans wired for violence?
How states can actively reduce the likelihood of war
Clash of ‘Helsinki’ vs ‘Yalta’ visions
The paradox of US hegemony
The UN as a global project
Discussion on Interests vs Values
Military Industrial Complex and acquisition of arms
The role of International Humanitarian Law
Implementing the laws we already have to achieve Peace
Rivalry between competing visions on how the world should be organised

During this chat, Alex and I discussed Samuel Moyn's book, 'Humane: How the United States Abandoned Peace and Reinvented War'. I previously spoke with Samuel about this book and its thesis. You can find that interview here.

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

Today, I spoke with Dr Alex Bellamy, who is a professor of peace and conflict studies and director of the Asia Pacific Centre for the responsibility to protect at the University of Queensland.

He is the author of numerous books, including ‘World Peace And How We Can Achieve It’, which was the basis for our discussion today. However, as you’ll hear, we covered many topics, including:

Outline of Responsibility To Protect (R2P)
Origins of the World Peace movements
Similarities of the extreme left and extreme right
Individual rights as a bulwark to collective violence
Importance of ideology and narrative in motivating wars
The paradox of nationhood – internal coherence at the cost of external differentiation
Galvanising of identity when under threat
Internal contest for the American identity

Some of the topics we cover in Part 2, coming out on the 20th of October, are as follows:

Are humans wired for violence?
How states can actively reduce the likelihood of war
Clash of ‘Helsinki’ vs ‘Yalta’ visions
The paradox of US hegemony
The UN as a global project
Discussion on Interests vs Values
Military Industrial Complex and acquisition of arms
The role of International Humanitarian Law
Implementing laws we already have to achieve Peace
Rivalry between competing visions on how the world should be organised

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

Today, I spoke with Dr Alex Bellamy, who is a professor of peace and conflict studies and director of the Asia Pacific Centre for the responsibility to protect at the University of Queensland.

He is the author of numerous books, including ‘World Peace And How We Can Achieve It’, which was the basis for our discussion today. However, as you’ll hear, we covered many topics, including:

Outline of Responsibility To Protect (R2P)
Origins of the World Peace movements
Similarities of the extreme left and extreme right
Individual rights as a bulwark to collective violence
Importance of ideology and narrative in motivating wars
The paradox of nationhood – internal coherence at the cost of external differentiation
Galvanising of identity when under threat
Internal contest for the American identity

Some of the topics we cover in Part 2, coming out on the 20th of October, are as follows:

Are humans wired for violence?
How states can actively reduce the likelihood of war
Clash of ‘Helsinki’ vs ‘Yalta’ visions
The paradox of US hegemony
The UN as a global project
Discussion on Interests vs Values
Military Industrial Complex and acquisition of arms
The role of International Humanitarian Law
Implementing laws we already have to achieve Peace
Rivalry between competing visions on how the world should be organised

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

Today, I spoke with Amanda Hsiao who is the Senior Analyst for China at the International Crisis Group. She joined me to shed some light on the increasing tensions between Washington and Beijing.

Amanda did this by tackling questions such as:

What are key points of difference in the US and Chinese worldviews?
Why are both sides intentionally elevating tensions?
What has led to the current change in decades-long status quo?
What is the importance of President Xi’s declaration of ‘reunification’ by 2049?
Why is Taiwan so important to both China and the US?
What do people in Taiwan want?
What lessons is China drawing from the Russian invasion of Ukraine?

Amanda’s work at Crisis Group focuses on conflicts in which China plays an important role, and developments in China’s foreign policy that relate to conflict prevention and resolution. As you will hear, it is understandable why she is a respected go-to voice on matters affecting China and the region. Some of the topics we covered are:

Amanda’s journey into researching China
Current state of affairs between China and the US
Increased tension = better preparedness
Narratives for domestic vs international audiences
The role of history in China’s quest for ‘national rejuvenation’
International laws, hypocrisy, and moral high ground
The risk of a ‘hot’ war
Language of ‘Reunification’ vs ‘unification’ with Taiwan
Complexity surrounding Taiwan’s status
Shifts in perceptions, especially the youth, in Taiwan
The historical, cultural and strategic importance of Taiwan to China
Lessons China is learning from Russian invasion of Ukraine
Regional impact of growing tensions
Current crisis management mechanisms and what else is needed
Likelihood of Taiwan pursuing independence
Relevance of Chinese demographics
Assessment of risk of Chinese invasion of Taiwan

If you like what you’ve heard, please take a moment to like and review the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

Today, I spoke with Dr Mike Martin and John Spencer who joined me for an update on the situation in Ukraine.

This conversation was recorded just after 9pm on the evening of 22nd of September, Ukraine time.

Some of the topics we covered are:

Impact of recent Russian battlefield losses
Significance of Putin’s ‘partial mobilisation’ and what it might mean
Attrition vs. Manoeuvre warfare
Possible next moves by Ukraine
The narrative surrounding the ‘referendums’ and their possible purpose
Thoughts on the ongoing weapons debate, such as about ATACMS
The risk of a collapsed Russia
Predictions for upcoming weeks and months

My previous conversations with Mike and John about Ukraine can be found below:

John Spencer - On Ukraine, Urban Warfare and lessons learnt
Dr Mike Martin and LTGEN (Ret.) Arne Dalhaug - Update on the Russian invasion of Ukraine

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

My guest today is Paul Ingram, who is the Academic Programme Manager at the Centre for the Study of Existential Risk (CSER) at the University of Cambridge.

Up to a few months ago, he was also the Director of Emergent Change, which he established to further the understanding and practice of the Stepping Stones Approach (SSA) to nuclear disarmament. Prior to that, he was the Executive Director at British American Security Information Council (BASIC) where he developed the Stepping Stones Approach along with his colleagues from the Swedish Foreign Ministry. Throughout his extensive career, Paul has worked across the world on many projects related to nuclear disarmament.

Some of the topics we covered are:

Paul’s journey into research of existential risk
Likelihood of getting rid of atomic weapons
Whether existing global structures can help mitigate catastrophic risks
The importance of context and history when dealing with rogue actors
Importance of inclusion and diversity
Challenges of quantifying risk of nuclear war
Explanation of how nuclear deterrence works
What happens if Russia, as we know it, collapses?
NATO , US, and B61-12 nuclear bombs
Nuclear weapon command systems and current safeguards
Nuclear disarmament and the ‘Stepping Stones Approach’

I made mention in the preamble about a report on the Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference. You can find that report here.

You can also find out more information about Russian nuclear weapons in this article by Hans M. Kristensen from 25th February 2022.

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

This is Part 2 of my conversation with Dr Jessica Wolfendale, who is an author, ethics professor and expert on torture and war crimes. If you've missed Part 1 of this discussion, I suggest you listen to that first here.

Some of the topics we covered in Part 2 are:

The dispositional account and cognitive-affective personality system
Military culture and socialisation
Freedom and resentment
Moral ignorance is by no means an excuse
Integrating the victim’s perspective into military training
The power of reconciliation
Jessica’s future work on depictions of war crimes

During the chat, I made reference to my conversation with Deane-Peter Baker about moral drift in the context of military ethics. You can find that interview here.

Additionally, if you'd like to hear more about the position I take on the idea of 'free will', I recommend listening to episode 33 with the renowned 'free will sceptic', Gregg Caruso. You can find it here.

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar

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This is Part 1 of my conversation with Dr Jessica Wolfendale, who is an author, ethics professor and expert on torture and war crimes. She joined me to try and tackle the dichotomy of how to reconcile one’s perception of oneself with one’s actions, within the context of atrocities carried out in war.

She does this by asking questions such as, ‘How do good people commit atrocities, like torture, and how are their views on killing impacted?’ and ‘Does the military training process make excessive violence acceptable and permissible in certain contexts, such as war?’.

Jessica is the author of ‘Torture and the Military Profession’, arguing that the prevalence of military torture is linked to military training methods that cultivate beliefs connected to crimes of obedience. She also co-authored ‘War Crimes: Causes, Excuses, and Blame’, with Matthew Talbert, where they unpack factors that can lead to war crimes as well as wrestle with the justness of responsibility and blame attributed to perpetrators.

Some of the topics we covered in Part 1 are:

Capital punishment as detached, humane killing
The normalisation of violence
How do we live with what we’ve done?
Forgiveness, self-forgiveness and atonement
Obedience to authority
The Milgram Experiments and the Good Samaritan Study
Circumstances and the situational account
The justification of torture in war

Part 2 will be released on 8th of September where we discuss topics such as:

The dispositional account and cognitive-affective personality system
Military culture and socialisation
Freedom and resentment
Moral ignorance is by no means an excuse
Integrating the victim’s perspective into military training
The power of reconciliation
Jessica’s future work on depictions of war crimes

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar

Buy Me A Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thevoicesofwar

Here is the link to the 2-minute survey:

https://forms.gle/RoxVPkKCZaJzLXq5A

Thank you!

Maz

Today, I spoke with John Spencer who is an award-winning scholar, professor, author, combat veteran, and internationally recognised expert and advisor on Urban Warfare and other military related topics. John currently serves as the Chair of Urban Warfare Studies with the Madison Policy Forum and was until recently the Chair of Urban Warfare Studies at the Modern War Institute at West Point. He is also the Co-Director of the Urban Warfare Project, and host of the Urban Warfare Project podcast.

John is also the author of the ‘Mini-Manual for the Urban Defender’, which is a short compilation of John’s vast experience and there are currently over 100,000 copies of the manual in Ukraine, where it’s being used daily by the defenders.

Some of the topics we discussed are:

John’s background in Urban Warfare
Why Urban Warfare is the hardest
Explanation of a possible shift in initiative
The strategic importance of Kherson
Likelihood of Putin seeking a ‘frozen’ conflict
The ‘Battle of Kyiv’ and why Ukraine succeeded
Why understanding the ‘human domain’ is critical
Information and connectivity as weapons of war
Birth of ‘The Mini-Manual for the Urban Defender’ and its ongoing usage in Ukraine
Conditions necessary for success of ‘Total Defence’
Reminder why Urban Warfare is critical and here to stay
Why training for the conduct of area defence is essential
Reminder of why terrain is important
The ‘rule book’ of a nuclear-armed state
Importance of a Ukrainian victor to broader geopolitical tensions

During the chat, I made reference to my conversation with Carl Miller about Russian influence operations in the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) countries. You can find that interview here.

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar

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If you'd like to help improve the show, please visit our Patreon page at https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar

My guest today is Dr Ned Dobos, who is a Senior Lecturer in International and Political Studies at the University of New South Wales in Canberra. He joined me to discuss his more-recent book, ‘Ethics, Security, and the War Machine: the True Cost of the Military’. Some of the topics we covered are:

Ned’s background and entry into military ethics
Explanation of Ned’s thesis, which asks whether justification of war necessarily justifies maintaining a military
Discussion on military as an ‘insurance policy’
The challenge of the classic security dilemma
Fear induced aggression and the Pre-emptive Strike Experiment
Discussion on Russian invasion of Ukraine
Military conditioning as potentially morally injurious
How we ensure accountability for possible moral injury
The Civil-Military gap and the ‘Veteran Superiority Complex’, and why they matter
The risk of military coups and what makes one more likely
Accounting for overconfidence, Einstellung Effect and other cognitive biases when considering war
Gene Sharp and the post-military defence system

Ethics, Security, and The War-Machine: The True Cost of the Military

Link to rate or review the podcast: RateThisPodcast.com/thevoicesofwar

Our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar

My guests today are Abby Zeith and Ruben Stewart from the International Committee of the Red Cross. Abby is a Legal Adviser in ICRC’s Arms and Conduct of Hostilities Unit where her work focuses on urban warfare and the conduct of hostilities more generally.

Ruben is a Military and Armed Groups Advisor in the ICRC unit that manages relations and dialogue with arms carriers. He focuses on Non-State Armed Groups, battlefield behaviour and new technologies.

Abby and Ruben join me today to discuss Urban Warfare, including aspects of International Humanitarian Law that seek to govern it, as well as issues related to the conduct of combatants and impact of Urban Warfare on civilians affected by it. Some of the topics we covered are:

Abby and Ruben’s backgrounds and entry into the ICRC
Understanding ‘good faith interpretation’ in International Humanitarian Law (IHL)
Defining ‘urban warfare’
Three reason why urban areas are frequently targeted by belligerents
Challenges for IHL in urban warfare
Impact of war on moral frameworks
Lessons captured in ‘Commander’s Handbook on reducing civilian harm in Urban Warfare’
Importance of appropriate doctrine and training for urban warfare
Impact of culture on understanding and application of IHL
Convincing belligerents of the value of IHL
The costs of non-compliance
The role of technology in urban warfare
Passionate discussion about Samuel Moyn’s thesis that humane war is more palatable to domestic audiences and therefore makes war a more appealing political option
Second and third order effects of urban warfare on civilians
Key lessons for those fighting urban wars to keep in mind

We referred to a couple of important documents during our chat. You can find the links to those below:

Reducing Civilian Harm in Urban Warfare: A Commander’s Handbook
The Roots of Restraint in War

Some additional resources you might find of interest are:

Urban warfare: an age-old problem in need of new solutions - Humanitarian Law & Policy Blog
Explosive Weapons with Wide Area Effects: A deadly choice in populated areas
Understanding Civilian Harm in Raqqa and Its Implications for Future Conflicts

Today, I’m speaking with Brigadier Mark Ascough, who is the current Director General of Intelligence at the Headquarters Joint Operations Command of the Australian Defence Force.

Brigadier Ascough joined me to talk about all things intelligence and how he sees the field evolve into the future. Some of the things we covered are:

Mark’s background and entry into the Army
Life as the J2, HQJOC
The role of ‘Intelligence’
Impact of the ‘Five Mores’
Challenges for future intelligence professionals
Dangers of bias in intelligence analysis
Moral courage in intelligence
Training for ethical challenges
Importance of understanding culture
Intelligence – too much or not enough power?
Leadership in intelligence

If you like what you hear, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:

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My guest today in Dr Tony Ingesson, who is an Assistant Professor of Intelligence Analysis at the Department of Political Science at Lund University in Sweden. His current research interests are decision-making, organisational cultures and technological aspects related to intelligence and counterintelligence. For his PhD dissertation, Tony studied tactical decision-making in high-stress situations in several different military units conducting operations in wars ranging from WWII to the UN mission in Bosnia and Herzegovina in the early 90s.

He joins me today to discuss organisational culture, sub-cultures and their impact on group behaviour. Some of the topics we discussed are:

Tony’s background and service in all three arms of the Swedish Armed Forces
Conscription in Sweden
Cultures within Armed Forces
Defining ‘culture’ and its influence on behaviour
Culture as a tool for management of ‘Stress’ and ‘Uncertainty’
The role of symbols and tradition
Nordbat 2 in Bosnia and Herzegovina
Swedish ‘Mission Command’ and its origin
Reality of war in Bosnia and Herzegovina
Nordbat 2 in combat despite restrictive UN Rules Of Engagement
Swedish high-trust culture and its impact on the Swedish Armed Forces
Training against bias in intelligence analysis
Why members of a military are not ‘professionals’
Exploring whether we are asking too much from our soldiers

If you like what you hear, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar

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Today is June 20th, and it is World Refugee Day. It has prompted me to reflect on my most recent episode, where I recorded an update on the situation in Ukraine with guests Arne and Mike. I’m heartened to see the interest the conversation has received—not for bragging rights, but because it helps, ever so slightly, to keep the attention on those who must live with the consequences of this invasion, including the more than 7 million individuals who have already been forced to flee, and whose real battle has only just begun.

An unfortunate reality of our current times is that conflicts around the world are forgotten almost as quickly as they begin. Since the world took notice of the Russian invasion of Ukraine almost four months ago, outrage and interest has subsided such that any updates on the war feature less and less frequently on most major news sites. But we shouldn’t be surprised. We only need to look at other ongoing conflicts—take Yemen, Afghanistan, Syria, Ethiopia, or Sudan, for example, where hundreds if not thousands of lives have been lost just this year alone—to see how quickly conflicts disappear from our collective consciousness.

Aside from the difficulties faced by the estimated one hundred million refugees fleeing various conflict zones across the globe, one of the aspects that affects and saddens me the most is the recognition that for these people, it is only after they are long forgotten by the rest of us that their true battle begins.

These conflicts are so deeply personal to me because, as most of you by now know, I am a product of the Bosnian war from the early 90’s. When the war broke out in my home city of Sarajevo, I was 10 years old. Before the war, we lived a completely regular, or even a privileged life. My mum worked as a physics professor at one of the country’s best high schools and my dad was an engineer working at one of the biggest and most-prominent engineering companies in former Yugoslavia. This was the same company that brought Russian gas into the Balkans, as well as the company that engineered Saddam Hussein’s personal bunker in Baghdad. In short, my brother, who is three years older than me, and I, weren’t left wanting for much. Apart from school, our weekdays included lots of playing and running around the neighbourhood with the dozens of other children living on our street. Weekends always included visits to my paternal grandmother, who lived in the centre of Sarajevo, as well as my cousins, both from mum’s and dad’s side. We’d escape Sarajevo to our weekend home my parents were building not far outside of the city, or to the one that my maternal grandfather built all by himself a few hours’ drive out of the city. Winter holidays were spent skiing on one of the nearby Olympic mountains dominating the Sarajevan horizon. In summer, we travelled to a beautiful coastal town in Croatia, where we kept a fully equipped trailer a stone’s throw from a secluded pebbled beach. Life was good.

As I now watch events unfold in Ukraine, I am reminded of the naivety and innocence of not only my parents, but also the rest of the country, that war could simply not occur. I mean, Bosnia is in the heart of Europe. Four hours drive and you’re in Austria, seven and you’re in Germany. No way would the rest of the world let the Bosnian Serbs, supported intimately by Serbia, start a war. The world had moved on, Europe had moved on, from large scale military confrontations. I remember in those final days before all hell broke loose, ordinary citizens, including my parents, neighbours, teachers and just about everyone else, going to huge anti-war protests. I was glued to the TV watching as they sang ‘Give Peace A Chance’, with every Sarajevan who had a lighter, which was just about every one of them, holding it lit above their head and swaying their arms in synch with the song. Although a powerful sight, and one that I get emotional over, even today, I now realise how foolish and naïve it was to hope that Bosnians could stop the inevitable march to war. Those in power had already decided, plans had been drawn up, troops gathered, weapons and supply lines prepared. All that was necessary was a spark to kick it all off.

As I sit here and watch the millions of refugees pouring out of Ukraine, I remember the sense of helplessness of not being able to change your destiny. The night before our suburb was occupied by Serb forces, my mum had a terrible feeling that something was about to happen. It was the first night in 20 years of living in the same house that she could hear the flow of a river, a kilometre away. It was an eerily quiet night. So, the next morning, the four of us, my dad, mum, brother and I, packed a backpack each and left our house to go and stay with my aunt, uncle and two cousins a little further into town. That day, the barricades around Sarajevo went up, and my suburb fell into Serb hands, with many of our neighbours who were left behind experiencing grave abuse by the invading forces. Fighting-age men were detained and taken away as prisoners. Some were never heard of again. Our house, the home I grew up in, was taken over by a police commander who threw my brother’s and my toys out into the backyard to rot. Our neighbour, the angel of a lady who also spent hours teaching me how to read and write, managed to wrestle some of our most-treasured possessions from the intruder, including some our family photo albums. Years later, during her first visit since the war, my mum was able to recover those cherished mementos of a life long gone.

We stayed with my aunt and uncle for those first few days of hell breaking loose. I remember watching tanks occupy positions on top of a small hill about 500m opposite of my aunt and uncle’s house. They weren’t shooting yet, but their command of the entire suburb from an elevated position was daunting as it was perplexing. How is this possible? These were our people? Not even two years ago we all sang the same anthem as Yugoslavia qualified for the semi-final in the FIFA World Cup in Italy. We all speak the same language. Hell, most of us didn’t even know that there was such a thing as different ethnicities. And yet here we were, cowering in the shadow of their barrels awaiting the inevitable. And it didn’t take long. Several times in those first days, air raid sirens echoed around the city, forcing us into bomb shelters scattered around the suburb. We were lucky that my aunt and uncle’s house was literally meters away from one of these, where we spent a number of anxious hours waiting for the threat to lift. A few days later, as the bombing really started, my parents decided that we’d be safer at my grandma’s house, whose apartment was in the heart of the city. We would spend the following few months there, until our escape from Sarajevo.

I remember sitting in the cellar for hours on end, waiting for the shelling to stop. My grandma’s building had about 10 apartments, and just about all of the occupants would hide below ground when the shelling would start. By now, it was occurring frequently enough that the cellars had to be cleaned up, chairs and tables were brought in, as well as candles, food and water. Power would frequently go out, as would water and getting basic supplies was becoming a serious challenge. To pass the time, I remember how my brother and I used a picture of Slobodan Milosevic, the President of Serbia at the time, that had a bull’s eye superimposed on it, for target practice. We had a couple of straws and bits of rolled up paper that we would dip in some water, pretending it was poison. We’d then shoot our weapons at Milosevic’s face, who was smugly smirking at our abysmal efforts from his place of prominence on one of the cellar walls.

Ultimately, I was lucky to have had to live in a besieged Sarajevo for only a few short months. I had recently had a serious ear surgery due to a tumour behind the eardrum of my right ear. My parents knew that I would imminently need another surgery to replace my eardrum which had 13 raptures in it, but they kept this from me at the time as they wanted me to focus on my recovery before worrying about the next time I’d be going into hospital. However, the fragile state of my eardrum, and the now near-constant shelling of the city were a bad combination. At one point, my mum told me to keep my mouth open while the bombs are falling as this would allow me to easier equalise the pressure on my eardrum from any artillery and mortar blasts. I can still hear my brother making fun of me for sitting in the cellar with my mouth permanently open out of fear of my eardrum bursting.

The moment mum and dad broke the news to my brother and I that the three of us would be leaving Sarajevo the next day on a UN convoy, I remember an insatiable rage coming over me. I did not want to leave. I did not want to leave my dad behind; I did not want to leave the rest of our family behind, all my friends. I did not want to leave my city, especially not now when its mere survival was in question. My ten-year old brain could not comprehend what was happening. Only weeks ago, we lived a normal life. I was going to school. We had picnics on the weekend. We were talking about our next holiday on the Croatian coast. It all vanished overnight.

As the next day dawned, one of our neighbours, Raza, sister of one of the nation’s most prominent poets Kiko Sarajlic, gave me a hand-made Pinocchio figurine she once picked up in Italy. It was aimed to give me something to play with, she said, and that we’ll play together upon our inevitable, and surely imminent, return to Sarajevo. The irony of her words, while handing me a Pinocchio figurine, was lost on me until much later.

Looking back, my reflection upon these memories has always had a certain nonchalance; a certain detachment from the reality of what they truly represented of my childhood. Now, as a father, the thought of any child, or in fact any person, having to flee their home after being innocently caught in conflict, much less conflict at the hands of an egomaniacal dictator attempting to assert regional, if not global, dominance, brings tears to my eyes.

Years later, my heart hurts for the fear my parents must have felt. The fear of not knowing what the next day would bring. The fear of not knowing how or if they could keep their young children alive and safe. The fear of the future that would befall their children should they be left without a parent or guardian to look out for them. The fear of the trauma and scars that may imprint on them in the days, weeks, months, and years of hardship to come.

As a father, the thought of my children having to live through such events sends a heaviness through me. But that heaviness is quickly replaced by anger. Because so many of these conflicts are unnecessary. Avoidable, even. And yet we enter into them so lightly. Far too lightly.

Thinking back to my own experiences, I know that what I lived through was easier than what my parents lived through. Childhood resilience is a wonderful thing. But, having to help your wife and children flee while you stay back to defend your homeland, as was the case for my father, or having to seek refuge in a foreign country where you don’t speak the language or have any of your qualifications recognised, as was the case for my mother, seem like far more challenging experiences. Watching your children become marginalised as they’re branded the poor foreigners in a new school. Having to rely on government handouts for the food, clothing and shelter you once provided in abundance for your family. Lining up for hours on end at an Immigration Office to apply for the less-than-welcoming residence status known as ‘Duldung’, which roughly translates to ‘tolerating or bearing you’. Many mistook this for a residence permit. It wasn’t! It was merely the suspension of the state’s obligation to deport you. It was a tactical pause, in your otherwise precarious existence and statelessness. After all that, there are the next 30 years coming to terms with never knowing the final resting place of friends and family, or the trauma associated with seeing your loved ones killed in front of your eyes. There is the loss of your identity, your history, your memories, yourself. These are the unspoken, unseen, unaccounted costs of war.

As the discussion around the invasion of Ukraine moves onto what a decisive victory looks like and how an end may come about, I urge those that care, those who are angered by needless acts of violence, to remember that for millions of innocent survivors, both in Ukraine and Russia and around the world, often, the immediate costs of these conflicts are the lightest and most superficial. The real costs—those which our children, families, and our communities bear, will play out in the months, years, and decades to come. I only need look to my own experience, where almost 30 years on, the balcony and building from which I watched those tanks roll in, still carry the scars from rockets and artillery of my childhood, to know that these are costs that humanity we’ll be paying for generations to come.

On this Refugee Day, take a moment to pause and look around. Take stock of what you have, and not of what you’re missing. Take comfort in the relative safety of your country, of a roof over your head, your job, or the car you might be driving right now. Think about the family dinner you get to enjoy tonight, or your child’s birthday party you get to organise. Think about the bar you’ll go to for ‘knock-off drinks’. Think about all of that, and then remember the 100 million refugees who won’t be thinking those thoughts.

And for those of you in positions of authority, or those who might command troops in war, take a moment to think about the next order you’ll give. Think about the impact that bomb, rocket, shell, or round will have. Not just on your target, but on those you might write off as collateral damage. Remember that the few minutes it took you to give, or to carry out an order, might leave physical, psychological, and spiritual scars on a child lasting a lifetime. What might be your acceptable collateral damage, might be someone’s mother, father, sister, or brother. It might be someone’s husband, wife, boyfriend, or girlfriend. It might be someone’s friend. And one of those your bombs force to flee, might be a child facing a life of uncertainty and instability. A child, just like me.

Finally, and where I hope this thought bubble to land, think about what you can do to help. Can you forgo a few coffees or drinks, and donate the money to the UNHCR, or another of the many amazing organisations helping those most in need? Can you donate your time to help in a shelter? What about old clothing? Can you donate some of it? How about attending one of the many activities marking the day? If nothing else, use your voice on social media or elsewhere to increase awareness of this growing need. But whatever you do, don’t just turn away.

Music: Adagio For Strings, by Samuel Barber

Today, I spoke with Dr Mike Martin and retired LTGEN Arne Dalhaug, who have both provided regular commentary on the Russian invasion of Ukraine in regular and social media.

Mike is a former British Army Officer who subsequently completed his PhD studying war and conflict. He has published a number of books, including ‘An Intimate War’, still one of the go-to books on understanding Afghanistan, as well as ‘Why We Fight’, a book that explores root causes of human conflict and war.

Arne is a retired three-star general who was previously the Deputy Chief of Norwegian Armed Forces, served as the Norwegian Military Representative to the NATO Military Committee, and was the Commandant of the NATO Defense College. After retiring from the military, Arne served in a senior position for the OSCE in the non-government-controlled area in eastern Donbas in Ukraine.

They join me today for an update on the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine. Some of the topics we covered are:

Current operational situation on the ground
The potential deception of Sieverodonetsk
State of the Russian Army
The likelihood and ‘dangers’ of a peace deal
The risk of nuclear war
Ukrainian requirements to sustain combat operations
The role of Turkey
Chinese view of the war
Putin’s most-likely and most-dangerous courses of action

For previous discussions with Mike and Arne, check out these episodes:

Arne:

Arne Dalhaug and Wolfgang Sporrer - On the War in Ukraine

Special Release: Lieutenant General (Ret.) Arne Bård Dalhaug: On the current Russia/Ukraine crisis

Mike:

Dr Mike Martin - Update on unfolding situation in Afghanistan

Dr Mike Martin & Dr Christopher Ankersen - Afghanistan Update and Future

Dr Mike Martin - a Soldier-Philosopher

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:

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Today, I spoke with John Gartner, whose career as a professional soldier and security adviser spans more than five decades. During that time, he served in the Australian SAS, Rhodesian SAS, Selous Scouts, South African National Intelligence Service and as a trainer for Sri Lankan Infantry and Special Forces units. He also provided security and close protection advice to a former Saudi Arabian oil minister as well as for the Brunei Royal Family.

John joins me today to discuss lessons learnt throughout his career, which is also captured in incredible detail in his memoir titled ‘The Fading Light’. I recently finished this book, which is a combination of unbelievable operational detail as well as reflections of a man who’s seen the best and the worst side of war.

Some of the topics we covered are:

John’s entry into the Australian SAS
Reasons behind joining the Rhodesian SAS
The (changed) profile of a Special Forces soldier
Life and operations in Rhodesia
Reflections on taking a life
John’s perspective on PTSD
The importance of ‘purpose’
War, atrocities, and ‘bad apples’
Selective Western military engagements
Living and working for a Saudi sheik and Brunei Royal Family
The power of cultural and linguistic immersion
The impact of John’s career on his family

Throughout the episode, I referred to several discussions with previous guests. You can find those here:

Jason Pack - On the ’Global Enduring Disorder’

Marc Garlasco - War through the eyes of a Pentagon Chief of High Value Targeting

Harry Moffitt - A Humble Warrior

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:

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My guest today is Dr Andy Norman, who is the award-winning author of ‘Mental Immunity: Infectious Ideas, Mind-Parasites, and the Search for a Better Way to Think’.

His research illuminates the evolutionary origins of human reasoning, the norms that make dialogue fruitful, and the workings of the mind’s immune system. He champions the emerging science of mental immunity as the antidote to disinformation, propaganda, hate, and division.

Currently, Andy directs the Humanism Initiative at Carnegie Mellon University and is the founder of CIRCE, the Cognitive Immunology Research Collaborative.

Some of the topics we covered include:

Andy’s entry into philosophy
The mind’s ‘immune system’
Definition of ‘mind parasites’
Manipulation gone to scale
Simple conspiracy vs complex reality
The challenge of debating against conspiratorial thinking
The incentives that fuel misinformation
How to prevent mind infections
Determining whether a belief is ‘reasonable’
Evolutionary origins of our capacity to ‘reason’
Dangers of confirmation bias
Factors that make us vulnerable to ‘mind parasites’
The dangers of hitching belief to identity
Developing a ‘mind vaccine’
The ‘New Socratic Method’

During the show, Andy and I discussed a paper he wrote in response to Hugo Mercier and Dan Sperber’s book ‘The Enigma of Reason’. You can download that paper here.

If you like what you hear, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:

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My guest today is Jason Pack, who is the author of ‘Libya and the Global Enduring Disorder’. Jason is also a Senior Analyst for Emerging Challenges at the NATO Defense College Foundation in Rome where he leads a program titled ‘NATO and the Global Enduring Disorder’, which seeks to produce a range of content analysing our current era of geopolitics while proposing actionable solutions to our most pressing collective action challenges.

Jason is also the President of Libya-Analysis LLC, a boutique consultancy providing strategic advice to any organisations seeking to make sense of the latest political, economic, commercial and security developments in Libya. He is also the founder of the US-based non-profit ‘Eye on ISIS’, which conducts research into Islam and Islamist movements in and outside of Libya.

Some of the many topics we covered are:

Jason’s background and entry into the study of conflict
Behaviouralist, rather than realist, view of International Relations
Meaning of ‘incumbent psychology’
Decline in American exceptionalism
Defining the Global Enduring Disorder
‘Deliberative disorder’ as a political policy
Difference between the war in Iraq and conflicts like Libya, Syria, Yemen, Venezuela or Ukraine
Some of the causes behind the Global Enduring Disorder
The benefits of a global hegemon
Why market economics was not enough to unite the world
Western failures after the Cold War
The importance of social trust to domestic order
Absurdity of Libya and its representation of the Global Enduring Disorder
The complexity of the Global Enduring Disorder
The role of technology and social media in the Global Enduring Disorder

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:

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My guest today is my good friend, Duncan Spinner. Since 2015, Duncan has been working in Ukraine and for four years was the OSCE Head of Operations for Luhansk.

Apart from sharing information on the current situation in Ukraine, this episode is also an appeal for your help in getting at-risk individuals out of harm’s way. As you’ll find out, Duncan and a small team of professionals are informally helping some of the most-vulnerable civilians whose lives are in grave danger. Please consider supporting the below GoFundMe page. Every donation helps save the lives of innocent Ukrainians.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/smm-veterans-for-smm-local-staff

Some of the other topics we covered are:

Snapshot of Duncan’s extensive experience working in conflict affected nations
Work in Ukraine as the OSCE Head of Operations for Luhansk
Questioning the Russian mindset, interpretation of victory and relationship to time
Reflecting on the ‘Russian way of war’
The power of narrative and risk of hubris
Informal rescue of at-risk and vulnerable Ukrainians from danger
The reality of those fleeing Ukraine
Getting personal protective equipment to fighters in Ukraine
The moral imperative of doing something to help
Supporting Duncan and his team

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:

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Today, I spoke with Dr Deane-Peter Baker, a military ethicist, who is an Associate Professor of International and Political Studies in the School of Humanities and Social Science at UNSW Canberra, where he also is co-Convenor of the UNSW Canberra Future Operations Research Group.

Deane’s work focuses mainly on the ethics of armed conflict. His current area of focus is on ethics and special operations, and he is a regular consultant to Australia’s Special Operations Command as well as the Australian Defence Force more broadly.

He joins me to today to discuss one of his recently published books, Morality and Ethics at War: Bridging the Gaps Between the Soldier and the State. Some of the topics we discussed are:

Deane’s entry into the field of military ethics
Difference between ethics and morality
Idea of individual freedom
Inculcating moral frameworks
Distinction between jus ad bellum and jus in bello
‘Disciplined disobedience’
Understanding ‘ethics inhibitors’ in a military context
Training with ethics in mind
Moral drift and moral injury
The ‘Guardian ethos’
Interests vs values argument
‘Ethical triangulation’

If you like what you’ve heard, please consider taking 30 seconds to like and review the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:

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My guest today is Dr David Whetham who is a Professor of Ethics and the Military Profession in the Defence Studies Department of King’s College London. He is the Director of the King’s Centre for Military Ethics and delivers or coordinates the military ethics component of courses for around two thousand British and international officers a year at the UK’s Joint Services Command and Staff College.

In 2020 David was appointed as an Assistant Inspector-General to the Australian Defence Force to assist in the final stages of the Afghanistan Inquiry and is the author of the report’s final Annex. He joined me to discuss issues of military ethics. Some of the topics we covered include:

David’s journey into military ethics
Defining military ethics
Jus ad bellum vs Jus in bello
Government and military tension when jus ad bellum is not met
Political leaders’ impunity when sending troops to war
Interests vs values debate
Impact of broken justifications for war
Afghanistan and impact of poor mission definition
Narrative vs reality and resulting disillusionment
Impact of the environment and whether atrocities in war are inevitable
Preparing our troops for moral dilemmas
Environmental elements that contribute to ethical demise
Special Forces, but not special
Mitigating circumstances to atrocities
Ethical drift and institutional responsibility
Realistic training for ethical dilemmas
Training to make the right decision, quicker

David mentioned the recent launch of a free app to help military service members make more informed decisions. You can find the app for both Apple and Android by searching for Military Ethics: Cards for Humanity.

My guest today is Carl Miller who is the co-founder of the Centre for the Analysis of Social Media at Demos. For the past nine years, he's been building new machine learning-driven approaches to robustly study online life and has written over 20 major studies spanning online electoral interference, radicalisation, digital politics, conspiracy theories, cyber-crime, and internet governance.

His debut book, The Death of the Gods: The New Global Power Grab was published in 2018 and won the 2019 Transmission Prize. He presents programmes for the BBC's flagship technology show, Click and has written for Wired, New Scientist, the Sunday Times, the Telegraph and the Guardian.

He joined me to discuss Information Warfare, cyber-attacks, weaponisation of social media and other challenges, and to do so with a particular focus on the ongoing invasion of Ukraine. Some of the topics we discussed are:

Carl’s entry into this field
Terrorists as conspiracy theorists
Profiling a conspiracy theorist
Understanding data
On the ‘Death of Gods’
The power of open-source intelligence
Emergence of information warfare
Frictionless engagement and the Attention Economy
TikTok and censoring of data
Has Ukraine really won the Information War against Russia?
Suspicious Pro-Russian influence operations in BRICS countries
Background and methodology of the BRICS research
Assessment of pro-Russian campaigns in BRICS countries
Cost of attacking vs defending against information operations
Risk of hubris

You can find out more about Carl and his work here, and you can see his recent research on pro-Russian influence operations in BRICS countries here.

Today, I spoke with Dr Peter Warren Singer, who is a Strategist at New America, a Professor of Practice at Arizona State University, and Founder & Managing Partner at Useful Fiction LLC. He is a New York Times Bestselling author with a multitude of accolades to his name.

His non-fiction books include ‘Corporate Warriors: The Rise of the Privatized Military Industry’; ‘Children at War’; ‘Wired for War: The Robotics Revolution and Conflict in the 21st Century’; ‘Cybersecurity and Cyberwar: What Everyone Needs to Know’ and most recently, ‘LikeWar: the Weaponization of Social Media’, which is the book we talked about today.

Peter is also the co-author of a new type of novel, using the format of a technothriller to communicate non-fiction research. ‘Ghost Fleet: A Novel of the Next World War’ was both a top summer read and led to briefings everywhere from the White House to the Pentagon. His latest is ‘Burn-In: A Novel of the Real Robotic Revolution’ and has been described by the creator of Lost and Watchmen as “A visionary new form of storytelling—a rollercoaster ride of science fiction blended with science fact,” and by the head of US Army Cyber Command as “I loved Burn-In so much that I’ve already read it twice.”

Some of the topics we covered are:

How the concept of #LikeWar was born
The individual vs social media
The power of storytelling in communication
The role of social media in the invasion of Ukraine
Social media – shifting the Who, the When, and the Where
Ukrainian application of best practices
Disconnectedness of Russian narrative
Justness of the Ukrainian cause
'Democratisation' of war
The malleability of the ‘truth’
Lessors learnt from Ukraine’s

During the chat, I referred to an article Peter recently published with Politico. You can access it here.

If you like what you’ve heard, please take 30 seconds to like and review the show wherever you get your pods. It will help the show grow.

You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:

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Today, I spoke with Dmytro Gurin, who is a currently serving Member of Parliament in Ukraine. Dmytro is originally from Mariupol, the besieged city in South-eastern Ukraine that is capturing global headlines, where he has spent his childhood and where he went to university. In the past, Dmytro has also spent more than a decade living in Moscow and is very familiar with Russian political and media machinations.

He joins me today, just after midday on Sunday, 13th of March, Eastern European Time, to discuss the evolving Russian invasion of Ukraine. Some of the topics we covered are:

Current situation in Ukraine
Change of Russian tactics to target civilians
General Russian orientation towards Ukraine
The reality faced by Russian troops
Life in the besieged city of Mariupol
Western predicament and possible ways forward
What Ukraine needs from the West
Possible scenarios inside Russia
Difference between Ukrainian and Russian armies
The state of the Ukrainian nation

My guest today is MAJGEN Mick Ryan, who only days ago officially retired from more than 35 years of service in the Australian Army. During this time, he has deployed on multiple overseas deployments, has commanded troops at platoon, squadron, regiment, task force, and brigade level, and among the many awards for service and excellence he has received, in 2008, Mick was also awarded the Order of Australia for distinguished leadership of the Australian 1st Reconstruction Task Force in Afghanistan.

He is a recognised expert in leadership, institutional strategy, technology, organisational adaptation and change management, institutional reform, as well as personnel development. Mick is also a prolific writer and speaker, with a particular focus on thinking about and preparing for the battlespace of the future.

This is also what his recently published book is all about. It is titled ‘War Transformed: The Future of 21st Century Great Power Competition and Conflict’ and is a deep dive into how four key disruptors, namely geopolitics, demographics, technology, and climate change, will impact great power rivalry. In short, Mick explores how the dynamics of the nascent fourth industrial revolution and its interplay with the ongoing changes in the way we live as well as dramatic shifts in global affairs will transform tomorrow’s wars.

He joined me today to talk about his book and how it relates to the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine. Some of the topics we covered are:

Nature vs. Character of war
Russian vs. Ukrainian Information Operations
Why Putin is fundamentally losing, so far
The role of surprise in this invasion
Re-emergence of Europe
Russian military deficiencies
Two principal decisions Ukraine is facing
The importance of time in the current war
Importance of leadership in war
Critical role of logistics
Impact of the Russian invasion on China
Are ‘our’ wars, different to ‘their’ wars?
21st Century as showdown between Democracy vs. Authoritarianism
Lessons learnt from the Russian invasion

You can find out more about MAJGEN Mick Ryan here. I also recommend you follow his Twitter page (@WarintheFuture) for regular updates on the current crisis and beyond. Lastly, you can view and purchase his book 'War Transformed: The Future of 21st Century Great Power Competition and Conflict' here.

War Transformed: The Future of Twenty-First-Century Great Power Competition and Conflict

This episode was recorded at 1000h CET on 27 Feb 2022.

Today, I spoke with Arne Dalhaug and Wolfgang Sporrer, both of whom I recently interviewed independently about the crisis in Ukraine (links with longer bios below). Arne is a retired three-star Norwegian Army officer, who also served as a senior officer in NATO and, more-recently, as a senior leader at the OSCE in Ukraine. Wolfgang is currently an Adjunct Professor at the Hertie School in Berlin and was recently the head of the Human Dimension Department of the OSCE in Ukraine.

They join me today to discuss the invasion, current crisis and possible future outcomes. Some of the topics we covered are:

Reason behind Putin’s ultimate invasion
Influence and importance of social media
Narrative control in Russia
Zelenskyy and his communication skills
Russian military and its failures to date
Impact of sanctions and financial measures
Energy sector and Nord Stream 2
China’s orientation towards the invasion and Russia
Other strategic tensions influencing the current situation
Putin’s options from here

You can find more-extensive biographies of both guest in our previous discussions below:

Special Release: Lieutenant General (Ret.) Arne Bård Dalhaug: On the current Russia/Ukraine crisis

Special Release: Wolfgang Sporrer - Providing nuance to the crisis in Ukraine

If you like what you hear, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:

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My guest today is Marc Garlasco, who began his career as the Chief of High Value Targeting at the Pentagon between 1997 and 2003 where he led targeting teams during operations Iraqi Freedom, Desert Fox, and Allied Force. Marc later worked in senior roles at Human Rights Watch, the United Nations, and the Centre for Naval Analyses.

Throughout his time, he has worked in Afghanistan, Gaza, Georgia, Iraq, Israel, Kosovo, Lebanon, Libya, and other conflict zones. He is a co-author of the ICRC report on Explosive Weapons in Populated Areas, and a co-host of the excellent The Civilian Protection Podcast that tells the story of those harmed by war, but whose voices are rarely heard.

Marc is currently the military advisor at PAX, the largest peace organisation in the Netherlands and works to protect civilians against acts of war, to end armed violence and to build inclusive peace. Some of the topics we covered are:

Marc’s journey into targeting
Developing a picture of Iraq
9/11 and (absence of) link to Iraq
Deliberate vs dynamic targeting
The failed targeting of Saddam
Why targeting fails
Incentives vs intelligence
Impact of ‘humane’ war
How a Collateral Damage Estimate (CDE) is conducted
Reconciling the fact that not all lives are worth the same
Use of drones and accuracy of battle damage estimates
Changing policy to reduce civilian harm
Building bridges between NGOs and the military
Impact of our wars on soldiers fighting them

Marc and I discussed The Civilian Protection Podcast, of which he is a co-host. You can access all episodes of this excellent project here.

Marc also mentioned the upcoming release of a US Department of Defence Memorandum, to be signed by the Secretary of Defence, that will direct the development of a comprehensive plan to mitigate and respond to civilian harm. That memo has now been released and is worth reading. You can find it here.

If you like what you hear, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar

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This is a short introduction to what's in store throughout 2022 on The Voices Of War. As you will hear, the show finally has a Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page. Please take the time check out the links below and support us if you are able to do so. Every little bit helps to grow the show.

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar

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Thank you and I hope you enjoy The Voices Of War throughout 2022.

Maz

This is a repost of my conversation with John Blaxland and Qinduo Xu, originally published on 01 Nov 2021.

Today I spoke with John Blaxland and Qinduo Xu. John is an outspoken commentator and researcher on topics such as Australian military history and strategy, public policy, security, defence, and international relations. Qinduo Xu is a political analyst who frequently contributes to international media outlets on China’s rise and its interactions with the rest of the world. We discussed roots of the AUKUS partnership, difference in Australian and Chinese perspectives, China’s economic and military growth, COVID-19, Double standards, lack of transparency, projection of strength, culture and many other topics.

You can follow John and Qinduo on their respective Twitter accounts @JohnBlaxland1 and @xuqinduo.

I briefly mentioned an article I recently published on the state of Western democracy, grey zone warfare by authoritarian states and the dangers of social media. You can view the article here.

Full show notes

My guests today are John Blaxland and Qinduo Xu. My audience might already be familiar with John Blaxland, who’s previously been on the show. He is a Professor of International Security and Intelligence Studies and former Head of the Strategic and Defence Studies Centre at the Australian National University.

Prior to his academic pursuits, John enjoyed an extensive career as an Intelligence Officer in the Australian Army including as the principal intelligence staff officer for the Australian contingent deployed to East Timor in 1999, as the Director Joint Intelligence Operations at Headquarters Joint Operations Command and as Australia’s Defence Attaché to Thailand and Myanmar. John is an outspoken commentator and researcher on topics such as Australian military history and strategy, public policy, security, defence and international relations.

Qinduo Xu hosts Dialogue Weekend at China Global Television Network (CGTN), a talk show that offers in-depth analyses of current affairs. He also works as a producer of the TODAY show at China Radio International. As a political analyst who follows Chinese foreign policy closely, Qinduo frequently contributes to international media outlets such as The New York Times, Press TV, NPR, Turkey’s TRT, ABC, RT, and others.

Qinduo majored in both English and international studies. His focus of research has been on China’s rise and its interactions with the rest of the world. Qinduo has spent years in the US as the chief correspondent for China Radio International and one year in Australia as a visiting scholar at the University of Melbourne. He is a Senior Fellow at the Pangoal Institution and an Adjunct Professor at Renmin University of China.

Some of the topics we covered are:

Origins and impact of AUKUS from the Australian and Chinese perspective
China’s economic and military growth
The primacy of China and US relationship
China’s overseas influence operations
Why China did not accept responsibility for COVID-19
Double standards, lack of transparency, and projection of strength
Importance of perception, history, and culture
Role of globalisation in deteriorating relationships
Defusing tensions
Chinese perspective of its role and contribution to the world
Climate change and global challenges
Need for increased dialogue between US, China, and other nations

This is a repost of my conversation with Michael Vatikiotis, a mediator at the Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue and author of the excellent book ‘Blood and Silk: Power and Conflict in modern Southeast Asia’. This episode was originally published on 22 Nov 2021.

--

My guest today is Michael Vatikiotis who is a writer, journalist and private diplomat working in Southeast Asia (SEA) since 1987. He was formerly editor of the Far Eastern Economic Review as well as a journalist in Asia for more than three decades. He currently lives in Singapore and is the Asia Director of the Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue, a Geneva-based private foundation that facilitates dialogue to resolve armed conflicts.

Michael has written two novels set in Indonesia and three books on the politics of SEA, including ‘Blood and Silk: Power and Conflict in modern Southeast Asia’, which we focused on today. Some of topics we covered include: ‘delusion’ of democracy in SEA; power of the elites; question of SEA identity; Western misunderstanding of SEA; China’s influence and role; reality of regional circumstances; US/China contestation; Australia and AUKUS; reality of adjustment and accommodation as well as issues plaguing traditional and social media.

Full show notes:

My guest today is Michael Vatikiotis who is a writer, journalist and private diplomat working in Southeast Asia since 1987. He was formerly editor of the Far Eastern Economic Review as well as a journalist in Asia for more than three decades. He currently lives in Singapore and is the Asia Director of the Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue, a Geneva-based private foundation that facilitates dialogue to resolve armed conflicts.

Michael has written two novels set in Indonesia and three books on the politics of Southeast Asia, including ‘Blood and Silk: Power and Conflict in modern Southeast Asia’, which we’ll focus on a lot today, as well as ‘Political Change in Southeast Asia: Trimming the Banyan Tree’. His latest book ‘Lives Between The Lines: A Journey in Search of the Lost Levant’ was published in August this year. In addition to his books, Michael regularly writes opinion pieces for international and regional newspapers and is a regular contributor to outlets such Al Jazeera and the BBC.

Michael is a graduate of the School of Oriental and African Studies in London and gained his doctorate form the University of Oxford.

He joins me today to discuss social, political and cultural dynamics of Southeast Asia and the role it plays, or is likely to play, in the complex world of modern geopolitics. Some of the topics we covered include:

Michael’s background and journey to Southeast Asia
Why Western idea of democracy remains a ‘delusion’ in SEA
Power and influence of elites in SEA
Identity in SEA
Western misunderstanding of SEA and what makes it ‘tick’
Chinese influence and role in SEA
Diversity and values
Reality of ASEAN
US/China contestation and resulting friction in SEA
Peculiar reality of the region’s position
Sources of risks of conflict in SEA
Australia’s role and impact of AUKUS
Reality of ‘Easternisation’
Geopolitical struggle of adjustment and accommodation
Role of journalism and social media
Reasons behind Michael’s hope

Blood and Silk: Power and Conflict in Modern Southeast Asia

Lives Between The Lines: A Journey in Search of the Lost Levant

Political Change in Southeast Asia: Trimming the Banyan Tree (Politics in Asia Series)

My guest today is Wolfgang Sporrer, who is an Adjunct Professor at the Hertie School in Berlin. He used to be the head of the Human Dimension Department of the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission in Kyiv, where he lead the civilian aspects of conflict management and facilitated and promoted dialogue between the opposing sides.

Before that, he was the head of the international oil and gas company OMV's representation in the Caspian region, where he spearheaded regional efforts to promote the Southern Gas Corridor for the EU.

Previously, he served as the Head of the Europa House of the European Commission in Baku/Azerbaijan and as the Head of the Democratisation Department of the OSCE Presence in Albania. He also served as a political adviser in the EU delegation in Moscow and in several functions for the OSCE in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo.

He joined me to discuss the ongoing crisis in Ukraine. Some of the topics we covered are:

Wolfgang’s background in conflict zones
Defining the conflict
Inner Ukrainian tensions
Ukraine/Russia bilateral relations
East/West dimension
Headlines vs. reality
Irrationality of a possible Russian invasion
Interests of President Biden and President Putin
The absence of a united EU position on Russia
A possible way out
Challenges to overcome

This is a repost of my conversation with Dr Douglas Fields, author of the excellent and important book 'Why We Snap: Understanding the Rage Circuit in Your Brain', originally published on 15 Nov 2021.

Today, I spoke with Dr Douglas Fields, who is a neuroscientist and author of numerous books and articles about the brain. We discussed his excellent and important book, Why We Snap: Understanding the Rage Circuit in Your Brain, which focuses on the neuroscience that triggers rage and violence. It turns out, evolution has endowed every single one of us with nine neural pathways that, when activated, will lead to a violent and oftentimes involuntary and non-conscious response. During our chat, Doug explained these circuits—captured in the mnemonic LIFEMORTS—and how they relate to many important issues, including: their applicability to our interpersonal relationships; origins in threat detection; their unconscious nature and subsequent voluntary expression; impact of social media and technology; disproportionate effect of stress; power of genes and the environment; manifestations of violence in different genders; utility in peacebuilding; training of responses; role in PTSD and, perhaps most-importantly, geopolitics and war.

Several previous episodes that link to the topics we discussed include:

Role of the environment:

Gregg D. Caruso - On the Illusion of Free Will, Myth of Meritocracy and the need to rethink our Justice Systems
Arjan Verdooren - ‘Cultures don‘t meet, people do‘
LTCOL Dave Grossman - On killing, combat, sleep, ‘blind spots’ and everything else in between

Geopolitics:

John Blaxland and Qinduo Xu - On AUKUS, US/China relations and growing tensions
Hasan Aygun - The Pragmatic Diplomat

PTSD and trauma

Tom and Jen Satterly - The All Secure Foundation
Steve Dennis - On getting shot, kidnapped and the court case that sent tremors through the humanitarian aid industry
Will Yates and Joe McCleary - On Trial for War Crimes: A Soldier’s Experience
Ashley Judd – On combat, mental health and the road to recovery

I also mentioned an article I recently published on the state of Western democracy, grey zone warfare by authoritarian states and how social media is contributing to a build-up of tension in our societies. You can view the article here.

Full show notes:

My guest today is Dr Douglas Fields, who is a neuroscientist and author of numerous books and articles about the brain. He is a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, University of Maryland adjunct professor, and Chief of the Nervous System Development and Plasticity Section at the National Institutes of Health. He received advanced degrees at UC Berkeley, San Jose State University, UC San Diego, and was a postdoctoral fellow at Stanford and Yale University.

He writes about science for Scientific American, Quanta, Outside Magazine, Huffington Post, Undark Magazine, Psychology Today, and similar prestigious outlets. His neuroscience research has been featured on national television, radio, NPR, the National Geographic and others, and he speaks about neuroscience for the general public on mediums like NPR, World Science Festival, TEDex and Google Talks.

He is the author of three books about neuroscience for the general reader, The Other Brain, about glia, which are brain cells that communicate without electricity, Why We Snap, about the neuroscience of rage, and his new award-winning book, Electric Brain, about brainwaves, brain-computer interface, and brain stimulation. Some of the topics we discussed today include:

Doug’s personal experience with sudden aggression
Evolutionary reason why we need triggers for sudden aggression
Unconscious nature of this mechanism
Explanation of LIFEMORTS
Voluntary expression of unconscious mechanisms
Our volition and culpability for violence
Impact of social media and technology
Disproportionate effect and impact of stress
Link between violence and gender
The ‘lizard brain’ debunked
LIFEMORTS in geopolitics
The role and impact of stress
Utility of LIFEMORTS in peacebuilding
Training the conscious and unconscious responses
Impact of genes and environment
Role in PTSD

Why We Snap: Understanding the Rage Circuit in Your Brain

My guest in this Special Release episode is Lieutenant General (Ret.) Arne Dalhaug, who during his extensive and distinguished career served at the highest levels of the Norwegian Armed Forces, the Norwegian Ministry of Defence, as well as NATO. His several final postings in uniform as a three-star general include serving as the Chief of Defence Staff/Deputy Chief of Norwegian Armed Forces, as the Norwegian Military Representative to the NATO Military Committee, and as the Commandant at the NATO Defense College. After retiring from the military, Arne served for three years in a senior management position for the OSCE in the non-government-controlled area in eastern Donbas in Ukraine. Arne now works as an independent expert on NATO, Russia and conflicts in the post-Soviet domain.

During our conversation we covered topics such as:

Origins of the Ukraine/Russia conflict
Reasons behind President Putin’s current actions
NATO and whether its actions have contributed to the crisis
The likelihood of an actual military invasion
Russian political vs military aims
Impact of the media on the current crisis
NATO cohesion and current posture
Assessment of the most-likely way forward

During the conversation, we discussed an excellent article from the Kyiv Independent, which you can read here.

You can find Arne's extended military biography here.

This is a repost of my conversation with Cian O'Driscoll, author of 'Victory: The Triumph and Tragedy of Just War', originally published on 10 May 2021.

My guest today is Cian O’Driscoll. His principal area of research is the intersection between normative international relations theory and the history of political thought, with a particular focus on the ethics of war.

His published work examines the development of the just war tradition over time and the role it plays in circumscribing contemporary debates about the rights and wrongs of warfare. These themes are reflected in his two monographs: Victory: The Triumph and Tragedy of Just War (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2019) and The Renegotiation of the Just War Tradition (New York: Palgrave, 2008).

Cian has also co-edited three volumes and his work has been published in leading journals in the field, including International Studies Quarterly, the European Journal of International Relations, the Journal of Strategic Studies, the Journal of Global Security Studies, Review of International Studies, Ethics & International Affairs, and Millennium.

Some of the topics we covered today are:

Cian’s research on the narratives that the Bush and Blair administrations used to frame the 2003 war in Iraq
Reflections on the widening of the jus ad bellum (justifications for war) since the end of the Cold War and its consequences
Exploration of Gulf War 1 as a ‘just war’ and the potential irony of its aftermath
The inability of Just War Theory, try hard as it might, to sanitise war
The challenge faced by military leaders when wrestling with Just War Theory
‘Just War is just war’

I thoroughly enjoyed this discussion with Cian, and hope you do as well. I recently finished his book that we frequently mention, Victory: The Triumph and Tragedy of Just War, and can warmly recommend it to anyone contemplating the complexities of Just War Theory—the principle tool used by Western militaries to manage conflict.

Repost of my chat with Shannon E. French, originally published on 02 Aug 21.

My guest today is Professor Shannon E. French from Case Western Reserve University (CWRU) where she is also the Inamori Professor in Ethics, and the Director of the Inamori International Center for Ethics and Excellence. Prior to her current role, she taught for 11 years at the US Naval Academy in Annapolis, where she was a tenured member of the Ethics department and Associate Chair of the division of Leadership, Ethics, and Law.

Shannon’s primary research field is military ethics, with a special focus on conduct of war issues, ethical leadership, command climate, sacrifice and responsibility, warrior transitions, ethical responses to terrorism, the future of warfare, and emerging military technology, including Artificial Intelligence. Her publications include ‘The Code of the Warrior: Exploring Warrior Values, Past and Present’, which we discussed today, as well as a number of edited volumes, book chapters and peer-reviewed articles on military ethics. You can read Shannon's full biography here.

Some of the topics we covered are:

Shannon's entry into the field of military ethics
Background to the 'Code of the Warrior'
Common 'codes' among warriors across cultures
The embodied identity of the 'warrior'
Our collective responsibility towards our 'warriors'
Given how we fight wars today, are 'war crimes' and ethical demise inevitable?
Issue of the 'Supreme Emergency'
The need to focus on civilians
Interests vs Values as reasons for war
Moral injury and 'death before dishonour'
How do we categorise 'terrorists'?
Should we fight 'evil with evil'?
Shannon's new project on military ethics and AI

I think this is one of the most important conversation I've had so far as it goes to the core of the reality of military service, particularly as it relates to the ongoing War on Terror. I would love to hear what you think so tag the show using the handle @thevoicesofwar on Twitter, Facebook or LinkedIn.

The Code of the Warrior: Exploring Warrior Values Past and Present

Repost of my chat with Hasan Aygun, originally published on 21 Jun 2021.

My guest today is Hasan Aygun. He is a Turkish national, who has had an extensive career in international relations, global security and conflict management both as a diplomat and later as a political adviser. Hasan joined the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs in 1983, and since then, he has served abroad in various functions, including Vice-Consul, First Secretary, Head of Mission and Counsel General in several different countries including Iraq, Italy, Serbia (at that time still Yugoslavia), Austria, Azerbaijan and Saudi Arabia.

He later became a senior political adviser for NATO where over the years he provided advice to six different four-star generals. During this time, he supported NATO humanitarian operations in places like Pakistan during the Kashmir earthquake and in the US during Hurricane Katrina. He also actively participated in Operations in the Sudan and Somalia as well as in counter-piracy operations and support to the African Union.

Hasan is currently an Associate Director at Strategia Worldwide, where he advises multinational businesses, governments and NGO's on complex risk management in conflict affected regions with a geographical focus on the former Soviet states, the Middle East, Africa, the broader Islamic World as well as maritime and energy transportation.

We covered many different points, some of which are:

The life of a diplomat
The nuance of balancing national vs. local priorities in a war zone
Reflections on Hasan’s lunches and tea ceremonies with Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi
The importance of ‘interests’ in determining whether a conflict becomes local or international
Secondary interests as reasons why the West invaded Iraq
Helping Bosnian refugees as a Turkish diplomat in Serbia during the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina
The importance of narratives propagated by ‘people you want to believe’ and ‘pack identity’ in starting and sustaining war
Why otherwise good people do horrible things
Post-conflict recovery as an industry
Difficulty and lack of incentives in finding a win-win solution in war zones
How national interests shape NATO interventions or lack thereof
50% of success in an intervention rests on understanding the culture of stakeholders in a conflict
Are all societies ready for democracy?
Why a war between the US and China is not likely

Finally, as you’ll be reminded in the introduction to the episode, here is the link for a short survey on the podcast. Thank you for taking two minutes to complete it.

https://forms.gle/HzBzMeDnGuSGUJi89

I hope you enjoy the episode.

Repost of my chat with LTCOL Dave Grossman, originally published on 30 Aug 2021.

Today, my guest is LTCOL Dave Grossman. He requires very little introduction, as I’m sure most of my audience will be intimately familiar with his books, most notably the one that has revolutionised the way we think and talk about combat. The book is of course ‘On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society’, which was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize; has been translated into multiple languages; is on the US Marine Corps Commandant’s Required Reading List; and is required reading at the FBI academy and numerous other academies and colleges around the world.

He is now the director of the ‘Killology Research Group’ and is on the road almost 300 days a year, training elite military and law enforcement organisations worldwide about the reality of combat.

During our chat, we discussed a range of topics, including

Non-firers in combat and how we made killing a conditioned response
How anonymity can enable violence and the importance of non-verbal communication
The logic behind the term ‘killology’
What LTCOL Grossman means by the phrase ‘no pity party, no macho man’
Sleep deprivation and its effects on our societies
The issue with high doses of caffeine in energy drinks
The impact of sleep deprivation on ethical decision making in soldiers and first responders
Social blind spots and how they impact our decision making
The blind spot of creating a generation desensitised to violence and war
How medical technology decreases murder and death rate, and thereby hides an increase in violence
How otherwise good people come to do bad things, particularly in war
‘Killing enabling factors’ and how they can lead to atrocities
‘The virus of violent crime’ and its implications for our future
The need to understand causes of violence, not means to carry it out
The power and danger of information

Since I’ve barely scratched the surface of LTCOL Grossman’s extensive biography, you can find an extended version here. You can find a list of other books he has written over the years, including the two mentioned in our chat—'On Combat' and 'Assassination Generation'—here.

On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society

Repost of my chat with David Livingstone Smith originally published on 09 Aug 2021.

My guest today is David Livingstone Smith, who is a Professor of Philosophy at the University of New England.

He has authored nine books with his more recent titles focusing on dehumanisation, race, and propaganda. His 2011 ‘Less Than Human: Why We Demean, Enslave and Exterminate Others’ won the 2012 Anisfield-Wolf award for nonfiction. David’s most recent book ‘On Inhumanity: Dehumanization and How to Resist It’ was published by Oxford University Press in 2020, and his tenth book, ‘Making Monsters: The Uncanny Power of Dehumanization’ will be published by Harvard University Press later this year.

David is an interdisciplinary scholar, whose publications are cited not only by other philosophers, but also by historians, legal scholars, psychologists, and anthropologists. He has been featured in prime-time television documentaries, is often interviewed and cited in the national and international media and was a guest at the G20 economic summit in 2012.

As many listeners will know, David is a leading thinker in this field, and has influenced much of our understanding of dehumanisation. We had a wide-ranging discussion and covered topics such as:

David’s motivation behind his research focus
Race as a cultural construct
The view one is ‘marinated’ in, is what one perceives as ‘real’
Different races vs. human variation
Race vs. Ethnicity
Assigning values to lives and the psychological cost of it
Overcoming the resistance to killing in war
Racilising and Dehumanisation as a protective mechanism in war
The cost of desensitisation to killing
Definition of dehumanisation
Psychological, political and social dimensions of dehumanisation
Why we’re all vulnerable to the process of dehumanisation
Dehumanisation is not a choice, but something that happens to us
The power of the environment and social forces
The need to assist soldiers ‘cleanse’ after killing on battlefields
The need to understand why atrocities in war occur
The ‘Essence’ of being human
‘Making Monsters’
The need to face our ‘past’ to understand our ‘today’

If you've enjoyed this episode, I would appreciate it if you could share it and tag @thevoicesofwar so that I can say hello.

On Inhumanity: Dehumanization and How to Resist It

Less Than Human: Why We Demean, Enslave, and Exterminate Others

Today, I spoke with Mark Willacy, the journalist behind the ABC report ‘Killing Field’ as well as the recently published book ‘Rogue Forces: an explosive insiders’ account of Australian SAS war crimes in Afghanistan’. Even though I stated that I will recommence publishing new episodes on the 21st of February 2022, I am releasing this one as a Special Release as I feel that the contemporary relevance of this conversation warrants it. As you will hear, some of the topics Mark and I covered include the intent behind his journalism, his initial exposure to war and conflict in the Middle East, how ‘Killing Field’ and ‘Rogue Forces’ came about, the people who approached him, impact of the environment on our soldiers, impunity of politicians and much more.

On a personal note, this was by far the most difficult interview I have conducted because of the highly volatile and close-to-home subject. All I ask of my audience is that they take heed of my opening remarks before diving into the interview. This is an important topic that we need to talk about and do so respectfully.

Lastly, you can see my recently published article that I mention here.

Full show notes:

My guest today is Mark Willacy. Mark has been a journalist for more than 25 years and has reported for the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, Australia’s national broadcaster, from more than 30 countries. Mark is a seven-time Walkley Award winner and in 2020 he was awarded Australia’s highest honour in journalism, the Gold Walkley, for exposing alleged Australian SAS war crimes in Afghanistan. His winning Four Corners report ‘Killing Field’ made headlines around the world and sparked a federal-police war crimes investigation. Mark’s investigations provided evidence for 12 cases named in the Brereton Report, the independent Australian Defence Force inquiry into war crimes in Afghanistan between 2005 and 2016. Earlier in his career, as the ABC’s Middle East correspondent for four years, Mark also reported on the ground from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the 2003 war in Iraq. He was also the Japan correspondent in 2011 when the country was hit by its most powerful earthquake in more than a thousand years. Mark has twice been named Queensland Journalist of the Year and in 2019 he won a Logie Award for his Four Corners’ world exclusive on the Thai cave rescue.

Mark has authored several books, including ‘The View From the Valley Of Hell’ a book about his time in the Middle East in the early 2000s, ‘Fukushima’, which is an account of the 2011 earthquake and the twin catastrophes of the subsequent tsunami and nuclear meltdown. And more recently, he published the book ‘Rogue Forces: an explosive insiders’ account of Australian SAS war crimes in Afghanistan’. He joins me today to discuss this last book, how it came about and its impacts.

Some of the topics we covered:

Marks entry into investigative journalism
His time in the Middle East in the early 2000s
Motivation behind extreme violence in the Middle East
Lessons learnt about human nature
First encounters with the Australian SAS in Iraq
How ‘Killing Field’ and ‘Rogue Forces’ came about
Why Mark released the book when he did
The sources of information for Mark’s book
Impact of the environment on our soldiers
Impunity of politicians
Current state of the media
Narratives surrounding Mark’s book
Mark’s response to Heston Russell’s recent public complaint
The way forward

Lastly, you can see my recently published article that I mention here.

Rogue Forces

Repost of my chat with Gregg D. Caruso originally published on 11 Oct 2021.

My guest today is Gregg D. Caruso, who is a Professor of Philosophy at SUNY Corning. He’s also Visiting Fellow at the New College of the Humanities, and Honorary Professor of Philosophy at Macquarie University, Sydney. Gregg is also a Co-Director of the Justice Without Retribution Network housed at the University of Aberdeen School of Law.

His research focuses on free will, moral responsibility, punishment, philosophy of law, jurisprudence, social and political philosophy, moral philosophy, philosophy of mind, moral psychology, and neurolaw. He’s published numerous books, including Rejecting Retributivism: Free Will, Punishment, and Criminal Justice (2021); Just Deserts: Debating Free Will (w/Daniel C. Dennett) (2021); Free Will and Consciousness: A Determinist Account of the Illusion of Free Will (2012); Exploring the Illusion of Free Will and Moral Responsibility (2013); Science and Religion: 5 Questions (2014) and others.

He joins me today to talk about free will, free will scepticism, moral responsibility, and our collective views on punishment. Some of the topics we covered are:

Gregg’s journey into philosophy of free will
Dominant positions in the free will debate
Explaining free will scepticism
Social determinants and their impact on outcomes
The mythology of meritocracy and the idea of being ‘self-made’
The illusion of the ‘self’
Free will scepticism, justice, and geopolitics
Impact of the situational factors, environment, and context on behaviour
Importance of understanding causes that lead to genocide, atrocities, and crimes
Gregg’s ‘Public Health Quarantine Model’ explained

This was a fascinating episode that will hopefully leave you with more questions than it answered. To find out more, you can visit Gregg's website here.

In this final episode of 2021, I take a few moments to reflect on the origins of the show, the guests I've had the pleasure of interviewing, some emerging themes, what's in store for 2022 and to give a few important thanks to those who have made the show possible.

We will return again on 21st of February 2022. Between now and then, I will be reposting a few of my favourite episodes that didn't get as much attention as I had hoped they would.

I wish you all a safe festive season and a happy New Year!

Much love,

Maz

Today, I spoke with Samuel Moyn, who is the Henry R. Luce Professor of Jurisprudence at Yale Law School and a Professor of History at Yale University. We discussed his latest book, Humane: How the United States Abandoned Peace and Reinvented War, published in September this year. As you will hear, I found this book to be of immense importance and hope that its contents get attention far and wide, most notably amongst those who send us to war.

Some of the topics Sam and I covered are how the idea of humane war entered our collective conscience; the role the war in Vietnam had in a pivot towards humane war; abdication of diplomacy for the ‘cleanliness’ of war; the traps of the Just War doctrine and its selective interpretations; the role of lawyers in making war ‘just’; impact of 9/11 on making war more ‘humane’; future dangers and much more.

Full show notes:

My guest today is Samuel Moyn, who is the Henry R. Luce Professor of Jurisprudence at Yale Law School and a Professor of History at Yale University. He has written several books in his fields of European intellectual history and human rights history, including The Last Utopia: Human Rights in History (2010), and edited or coedited a number of others.

His most recent books are Christian Human Rights (2015), based on Mellon Distinguished Lectures at the University of Pennsylvania in fall 2014, and Not Enough: Human Rights in an Unequal World (2018). His newest book, published in September this year, is titled Humane: How the United States Abandoned Peace and Reinvented War, and will be the focus of our conversation today.

Over the years, Samuel has written in venues such as the Boston Review, the Chronicle of Higher Education, Dissent, The Nation, The New Republic, the New York Times, and the Wall Street Journal.

I recently finished his latest book, Humane, and to say that it was a perspective-altering read would be a huge understatement. It is a deeply insightful and undoubtedly controversial book, and I hope it gets the global attention it deserves. For that very reason, I am truly humbled to have hosted Sam on the show. Some of the topics we covered include:

Sam’s introduction into the field of human rights
The genesis of humane war thinking
Outlawing war vs. humane war
Distinction between pacifism and being anti-war
Vietnam and the focus on the conduct of war
How ending conscription helped perpetuate humane war
Trade of diplomacy for humane war
Importance of 9/11 in evolution of humane war
The issue of terrorists and ‘associated forces’
The role of lawyers in making wars ‘just’
Jus in bello and it’s illusions
Ongoing trajectory of ‘safe’ and ‘clean’ war
Potential dangers of ongoing humane war

Humane: How the United States Abandoned Peace and Reinvented War

My guest today is Toby Harnden, who is an author, journalist, and winner of the Orwell Prize, UK’s most prestigious prize for political writing. His most recent book, First Casualty: The Untold Story of the CIA Mission to Avenge 9/11, is the story of the first US team into Afghanistan post the attacks of September 11, 2001. A former Royal Navy officer before becoming a journalist for the likes ofThe Sunday Times and The Daily Telegraph who has subsequently reported from 33 countries, was imprisoned in Zimbabwe, and faced prosecution in Britain for protecting confidential sources, Toby is uniquely qualified to tell this story. Some of the topics we covered are: Toby’s journey into journalism, building credibility with the CIA, the story of Team Alpha, the battle of Qala-i Jangi, human terrain of Afghanistan as well as the scars of Team Alpha in the years to come.

Full show notes:

My guest today is Toby Harnden, who is an author, journalist, and winner of the Orwell Prize, UK’s most prestigious prize for political writing. His most recent book is First Casualty: The Untold Story of the CIA Mission to Avenge 9/11 and will be the main focus of our discussion today. A former foreign correspondent for The Sunday Times of London and The Daily Telegraph who has reported from 33 countries, he specializes in terrorism and war. Born in England, Toby was imprisoned in Zimbabwe, faced prosecution in Britain for protecting confidential sources, and was vindicated by a $23 million public inquiry in Ireland. A dual British and American citizen, he spent a decade as a Royal Navy officer before becoming a journalist. He holds a First Class degree in Modern History from Corpus Christi College, Oxford and is the author of Bandit Country: The IRA & South Armagh (1999) as well as Dead Men Risen: An Epic Story of War and Heroism in Afghanistan (2009), for which he received the Orwell Prize. Previously based in London, Belfast, Jerusalem, Baghdad, and Washington D.C., he now lives in Virginia.

Some of the topics we covered are:

Toby’s journey into war journalism
Building of credibility and trust with the CIA
How the CIA came to lead the first mission in Afghanistan post 9/11
The battle of Qala-i Jangi
Complexity of the human terrain of Afghanistan and our ultimate failure to recognise it
Lessons to be drawn from Afghanistan
Limited warfare and likelihood of its future use
Team Alpha scars of Afghanistan

First Casualty: The Untold Story of the CIA Mission to Avenge 9/11

Dead Men Risen: An Epic Story of War and Heroism in Afghanistan

My guest today is Michael Vatikiotis who is a writer, journalist and private diplomat working in Southeast Asia (SEA) since 1987. He was formerly editor of the Far Eastern Economic Review as well as a journalist in Asia for more than three decades. He currently lives in Singapore and is the Asia Director of the Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue, a Geneva-based private foundation that facilitates dialogue to resolve armed conflicts.

Michael has written two novels set in Indonesia and three books on the politics of SEA, including ‘Blood and Silk: Power and Conflict in modern Southeast Asia’, which we focused on today. Some of topics we covered include: ‘delusion’ of democracy in SEA; power of the elites; question of SEA identity; Western misunderstanding of SEA; China’s influence and role; reality of regional circumstances; US/China contestation; Australia and AUKUS; reality of adjustment and accommodation as well as issues plaguing traditional and social media.

Full show notes:

My guest today is Michael Vatikiotis who is a writer, journalist and private diplomat working in Southeast Asia since 1987. He was formerly editor of the Far Eastern Economic Review as well as a journalist in Asia for more than three decades. He currently lives in Singapore and is the Asia Director of the Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue, a Geneva-based private foundation that facilitates dialogue to resolve armed conflicts.

Michael has written two novels set in Indonesia and three books on the politics of Southeast Asia, including ‘Blood and Silk: Power and Conflict in modern Southeast Asia’, which we’ll focus on a lot today, as well as ‘Political Change in Southeast Asia: Trimming the Banyan Tree’. His latest book ‘Lives Between The Lines: A Journey in Search of the Lost Levant’ was published in August this year. In addition to his books, Michael regularly writes opinion pieces for international and regional newspapers and is a regular contributor to outlets such Al Jazeera and the BBC.

Michael is a graduate of the School of Oriental and African Studies in London and gained his doctorate form the University of Oxford.

He joins me today to discuss social, political and cultural dynamics of Southeast Asia and the role it plays, or is likely to play, in the complex world of modern geopolitics. Some of the topics we covered include:

Michael’s background and journey to Southeast Asia
Why Western idea of democracy remains a ‘delusion’ in SEA
Power and influence of elites in SEA
Identity in SEA
Western misunderstanding of SEA and what makes it ‘tick’
Chinese influence and role in SEA
Diversity and values
Reality of ASEAN
US/China contestation and resulting friction in SEA
Peculiar reality of the region’s position
Sources of risks of conflict in SEA
Australia’s role and impact of AUKUS
Reality of ‘Easternisation’
Geopolitical struggle of adjustment and accommodation
Role of journalism and social media
Reasons behind Michael’s hope

Blood and Silk: Power and Conflict in Modern Southeast Asia

Lives Between The Lines: A Journey in Search of the Lost Levant

Political Change in Southeast Asia: Trimming the Banyan Tree (Politics in Asia Series)

Today, I spoke with Dr Douglas Fields, who is a neuroscientist and author of numerous books and articles about the brain. We discussed his excellent and important book, Why We Snap: Understanding the Rage Circuit in Your Brain, which focuses on the neuroscience that triggers rage and violence. It turns out, evolution has endowed every single one of us with nine neural pathways that, when activated, will lead to a violent and oftentimes involuntary and non-conscious response. During our chat, Doug explained these circuits—captured in the mnemonic LIFEMORTS—and how they relate to many important issues, including: their applicability to our interpersonal relationships; origins in threat detection; their unconscious nature and subsequent voluntary expression; impact of social media and technology; disproportionate effect of stress; power of genes and the environment; manifestations of violence in different genders; utility in peacebuilding; training of responses; role in PTSD and, perhaps most-importantly, geopolitics and war.

Several previous episodes that link to the topics we discussed include:

Role of the environment:

Gregg D. Caruso - On the Illusion of Free Will, Myth of Meritocracy and the need to rethink our Justice Systems
Arjan Verdooren - ‘Cultures don‘t meet, people do‘
LTCOL Dave Grossman - On killing, combat, sleep, ‘blind spots’ and everything else in between

Geopolitics:

John Blaxland and Qinduo Xu - On AUKUS, US/China relations and growing tensions
Hasan Aygun - The Pragmatic Diplomat

PTSD and trauma

Tom and Jen Satterly - The All Secure Foundation
Steve Dennis - On getting shot, kidnapped and the court case that sent tremors through the humanitarian aid industry
Will Yates and Joe McCleary - On Trial for War Crimes: A Soldier’s Experience
Ashley Judd – On combat, mental health and the road to recovery

I also mentioned an article I recently published on the state of Western democracy, grey zone warfare by authoritarian states and how social media is contributing to a build-up of tension in our societies. You can view the article here.

Full show notes:

My guest today is Dr Douglas Fields, who is a neuroscientist and author of numerous books and articles about the brain. He is a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, University of Maryland adjunct professor, and Chief of the Nervous System Development and Plasticity Section at the National Institutes of Health. He received advanced degrees at UC Berkeley, San Jose State University, UC San Diego, and was a postdoctoral fellow at Stanford and Yale University.

He writes about science for Scientific American, Quanta, Outside Magazine, Huffington Post, Undark Magazine, Psychology Today, and similar prestigious outlets. His neuroscience research has been featured on national television, radio, NPR, the National Geographic and others, and he speaks about neuroscience for the general public on mediums like NPR, World Science Festival, TEDex and Google Talks.

He is the author of three books about neuroscience for the general reader, The Other Brain, about glia, which are brain cells that communicate without electricity, Why We Snap, about the neuroscience of rage, and his new award-winning book, Electric Brain, about brainwaves, brain-computer interface, and brain stimulation. Some of the topics we discussed today include:

Doug’s personal experience with sudden aggression
Evolutionary reason why we need triggers for sudden aggression
Unconscious nature of this mechanism
Explanation of LIFEMORTS
Voluntary expression of unconscious mechanisms
Our volition and culpability for violence
Impact of social media and technology
Disproportionate effect and impact of stress
Link between violence and gender
The ‘lizard brain’ debunked
LIFEMORTS in geopolitics
The role and impact of stress
Utility of LIFEMORTS in peacebuilding
Training the conscious and unconscious responses
Impact of genes and environment
Role in PTSD

Why We Snap: Understanding the Rage Circuit in Your Brain

Today, I spoke with Arjan Verdooren, an intercultural communication consultant and lecturer. He is also the co-author, together with Dr Edwin Hoffman, of the book ‘Diversity Competence - Cultures Don’t Meet, People Do’, which is a deep dive into improving our individual and collective intercultural competence. Arjan has authored various other publications on intercultural communication, intercultural competence, cultural diversity, and multiculturalism. We touched on many topics, such as the origins of ‘studying’ culture; cultural relativism, universalism, and pluralism; meaning behind ‘cultures don’t meet, people do’; the TOPOI model; building rapport and how to reduce intercultural miscommunication.

Additional episodes that explore the importance of dialogue and communication are:

John Blaxland and Qinduo Xu - On AUKUS, US/China relations and growing tensions
Stephanie Speck - Strategic Communication: A Tool For Change
Adam Cooper - Mediation, Diplomacy and Digital Conflict
Roger Noble - A Major General’s Perspective

Full show notes:

My guest today is Arjan Verdooren, who has a background in communication studies and works as a consultant and lecturer in the field of intercultural communication and competence. He is associated with the Royal Tropical Institute, a knowledge centre in Amsterdam and until recently lectured at the Master in Communication program at the University of Gothenburg. He is the co-author, together with Dr Edwin Hoffman, of the book ‘Diversity Competence - Cultures Don’t Meet, People Do’, which is a deep dive into improving our individual and collective intercultural competence. Arjan has authored various other publications on intercultural communication, intercultural competence, cultural diversity, and multiculturalism.

Throughout the fifteen years he has spent in the field, he has consulted with various organisations ranging from state departments to multinationals and NGO’s on harnessing more effective international and intercultural cooperation. He is a frequent speaker on these topics and is someone who connects theory with practitioners facing intercultural situations every day in the field.

Some of the topics we covered are:

Arjan’s entry into the field of intercultural communication
Where the idea of ‘culture’ come from
Cultural relativism, universalism, and pluralism
Dealing with ethical challenges of cultural relativism
Meaning behind ‘cultures don’t meet, people do’
Defining ‘culture’
The TOPOI model of communication
Cultural models as refence points
Power and utility of narratives we tell ourselves and others
Importance of building rapport
Focusing on why people do what they do
Use of TOPOI in a real-life setting
Best way to prepare for intercultural engagement

Today I spoke with John Blaxland and Qinduo Xu. John is an outspoken commentator and researcher on topics such as Australian military history and strategy, public policy, security, defence, and international relations. Qinduo Xu is a political analyst who frequently contributes to international media outlets on China’s rise and its interactions with the rest of the world. We discussed roots of the AUKUS partnership, difference in Australian and Chinese perspectives, China’s economic and military growth, COVID-19, Double standards, lack of transparency, projection of strength, culture and many other topics.

You can follow John and Qinduo on their respective Twitter accounts @JohnBlaxland1 and @xuqinduo.

I briefly mentioned an article I recently published on the state of Western democracy, grey zone warfare by authoritarian states and the dangers of social media. You can view the article here.

Full show notes

My guests today are John Blaxland and Qinduo Xu. My audience might already be familiar with John Blaxland, who’s previously been on the show. He is a Professor of International Security and Intelligence Studies and former Head of the Strategic and Defence Studies Centre at the Australian National University.

Prior to his academic pursuits, John enjoyed an extensive career as an Intelligence Officer in the Australian Army including as the principal intelligence staff officer for the Australian contingent deployed to East Timor in 1999, as the Director Joint Intelligence Operations at Headquarters Joint Operations Command and as Australia’s Defence Attaché to Thailand and Myanmar. John is an outspoken commentator and researcher on topics such as Australian military history and strategy, public policy, security, defence and international relations.

Qinduo Xu hosts Dialogue Weekend at China Global Television Network (CGTN), a talk show that offers in-depth analyses of current affairs. He also works as a producer of the TODAY show at China Radio International. As a political analyst who follows Chinese foreign policy closely, Qinduo frequently contributes to international media outlets such as The New York Times, Press TV, NPR, Turkey’s TRT, ABC, RT, and others.

Qinduo majored in both English and international studies. His focus of research has been on China’s rise and its interactions with the rest of the world. Qinduo has spent years in the US as the chief correspondent for China Radio International and one year in Australia as a visiting scholar at the University of Melbourne. He is a Senior Fellow at the Pangoal Institution and an Adjunct Professor at Renmin University of China.

Some of the topics we covered are:

Origins and impact of AUKUS from the Australian and Chinese perspective
China’s economic and military growth
The primacy of China and US relationship
China’s overseas influence operations
Why China did not accept responsibility for COVID-19
Double standards, lack of transparency, and projection of strength
Importance of perception, history, and culture
Role of globalisation in deteriorating relationships
Defusing tensions
Chinese perspective of its role and contribution to the world
Climate change and global challenges
Need for increased dialogue between US, China, and other nations

Today, I spoke with Tom and Jen Satterly. Tom is a highly decorated combat veteran who has spent 25 years in the US Army, with the last 20 in Delta Force. Jen was an award-winning filmmaker and photographer for who has spent several years as Director of Film and Photography at an elite Special Operations training company fully embedded with Navy SEALS, Green Berets, and Army Rangers. We talked about Tom’s first combat experience in Mogadishu, the price of service paid by those in uniform and their families, trauma, recovery, their joint non-profit ‘All Secure Foundation’, and many other topics.

You can listen to previous episodes that deal with healing from PTSD, moral injury, and trauma here:

Steve Dennis - On getting shot, kidnapped and the court case that sent tremors through the humanitarian aid industry
Will Yates and Joe McCleary - On Trial for War Crimes: A Soldier’s Experience
Philippa (Pip) Weiland - Perspectives of an Army Psychologist
Ashley Judd – On combat, mental health and the road to recovery

Full notes:

My guests today are Tom and Jen Satterly. Tom is a highly decorated combat veteran, having served in the US Army for 25 years, the last 20 in Delta Force. Tom retired as the units Command Sargent Major or its most senior soldier. During his time, he has been involved in, and led, some of the US most important military campaigns. He fought in Mogadishu and was portrayed in the Oscar Winning film: ‘Black Hawk Down’, which was the longest sustained firefight of US forces since Vietnam. He has deployed countless times and led hundreds of missions including the capture of Saddam Hussein. He is the recipient of numerous medals including a Silver Star, 4 Bronze Stars, 1 of which was for Valorous acts. Beyond Tom's invaluable service in uniform, he continues to fight and win his own "silent war". Having come within seconds of taking his own life and becoming a veteran suicide statistic, today, Tom is on his most important mission to date with his wife and partner, Jen. Together, they are co-Founders and co-CEOs of the ‘All Secure Foundation’, which I’ll mention more about in a second. Tom also authored a best-selling book titled, "All Secure: A Special Operations Soldier's Fight to Survive on the Battlefield and the Homefront" available here.

Jen was an award-winning filmmaker and photographer for 15 years, spending the last three as Director of Film and Photography at an elite Special Operations training company fully embedded with Navy SEALS, Green Berets, and Army Rangers in large-scale realistic training missions. During her time with Special Operations warriors, Jen began to see a pattern. As it turns out, many were dealing with complex Post-Traumatic Stress. This realisation motivated her to help them find a way to constructively deal with Post-Traumatic Stress and its symptoms, which sadly includes isolation, anxiety, severe depression, anger issues and a long list of medical challenges. Jen made it her mission to not only help the service member but also their families who often suffer from secondary PTS. As a result, Jen stepped away from the camera and became a certified health and wellness coach. She recently published a book titled ‘Arsenal of Hope: Tactics for Taking on PTSD, Together’, available here. Alongside with Tom, she co-Founded and co-CEOs the ‘All Secure Foundation’, a non-profit that helps Special Operation warriors and their families reconnect and heal on the Homefront. ‘All Secure’ has been recognised as a top-rated non-profit by Great Non-profits 4 years in a row and has grown to serve thousands of combat families.

Some of the topics we covered include:

How Tom and Jen’s paths crossed
The battle of Mogadishu
Reality of combat
The civilian perspective of life in the Special Forces
Acceptance of trauma and the journey of healing
Impact of service on families and secondary PTSD
The cost of service in the Special Forces
The need to focus on mental health
Moral injury
Birth of the ‘All Secure Foundation’
A new purpose in life

Arsenal of Hope: Tactics for Taking on PTSD, Together

All Secure: A Special Operations Soldier's Fight to Survive on the Battlefield and the Homefront

My guest today is Gregg D. Caruso, who is a Professor of Philosophy at SUNY Corning. He’s also Visiting Fellow at the New College of the Humanities, and Honorary Professor of Philosophy at Macquarie University, Sydney. Gregg is also a Co-Director of the Justice Without Retribution Network housed at the University of Aberdeen School of Law.

His research focuses on free will, moral responsibility, punishment, philosophy of law, jurisprudence, social and political philosophy, moral philosophy, philosophy of mind, moral psychology, and neurolaw. He’s published numerous books, including Rejecting Retributivism: Free Will, Punishment, and Criminal Justice (2021); Just Deserts: Debating Free Will (w/Daniel C. Dennett) (2021); Free Will and Consciousness: A Determinist Account of the Illusion of Free Will (2012); Exploring the Illusion of Free Will and Moral Responsibility (2013); Science and Religion: 5 Questions (2014) and others.

He joins me today to talk about free will, free will scepticism, moral responsibility, and our collective views on punishment. Some of the topics we covered are:

Gregg’s journey into philosophy of free will
Dominant positions in the free will debate
Explaining free will scepticism
Social determinants and their impact on outcomes
The mythology of meritocracy and the idea of being ‘self-made’
The illusion of the ‘self’
Free will scepticism, justice, and geopolitics
Impact of the situational factors, environment, and context on behaviour
Importance of understanding causes that lead to genocide, atrocities, and crimes
Gregg’s ‘Public Health Quarantine Model’ explained

This was a fascinating episode that will hopefully leave you with more questions than it answered. To find out more, you can visit Gregg's website here.

My guest today is Steve Dennis. After working as a civil engineer in Canada in the late 1990’s, Steve started working as a field-based humanitarian aid worker in 2002. He worked in Africa, Asia and the Middle East, for various NGOs and UN agencies, which include the World Food Programme, Médecins Sans Frontières, United Nations Department of Safety and Security, and others.

In 2012, while working with an organisation in Kenya, armed men attacked a convoy Steve was travelling in. In the attack, one staff member was killed, and Steve and two other colleagues were wounded. He and three colleagues where then kidnapped by the armed militia only to be rescued days later in another violent gunfight.

In 2015, Steve won a precedent-setting court ruling of gross negligence against his former employer, revealing a disturbingly high level of disregard for staff safety within the organisation as well as within the industry as a whole. The court also shed some much-needed light on the need to care for injured staff, which is another topic rarely discussed.

Steve now works with individuals and organisations along their path from injury and grievance to recovery, as well as skills development and growth. This work is not only related to better navigating the landscapes of an organisation’s duty of care and risk management, but also capacity development in program management, leadership, and breaking stigmas on mental health issues.

Some of the topics we covered include:

Steve’s entry into the humanitarian aid profession
Life of a humanitarian aid worker
Challenges of working in a refugee camp in Kenya
Importance of planning and appropriate qualifications
Getting shot and kidnapped
The rescue
Trauma, PTSD and tools that help
The legal battle
Inadequate health and legal frameworks for humanitarian aid workers
Impact of Steve’s precedent-setting legal win
Steve’s current role helping others avoid similar challenges

You can find out more about Steve and his work here, and watch a documentary about his kidnapping here.

My guest today is Stephanie Speck, who has lived and worked in more than 20 countries, accumulating almost 25 years experience as a strategy and communications adviser, supporting democratic reform in fragile and conflict-affected settings. Stephanie’s expertise includes the design and programming of cross-government reform strategies, strategic communication, and advocacy initiatives; public policy development; counter-terrorism communication strategies, government public affairs and crisis communications.

Stephanie has launched TV channels (including the Middle East’s most popular, MBC Action); was Deputy Director of the first Palestine Investment Forum; led a US$1billion governance reform portfolio in Afghanistan; developed maternal health campaigns in the Vietnamese/Chinese border regions; worked to eliminate family voting in Albania; reported on disasters—earning her the Australian Humanitarian Award for her work post the Indian Ocean tsunami; and held several high-level public diplomacy and spokesperson roles, including as Senior Adviser to the Senior Minister of Afghanistan, the President of Somalia and the Prime Minister of Iraq.

Stephanie has just finished almost three years leading communication and advocacy initiatives for the UN Office for Disaster Risk Reduction, in Geneva.

Some of the topics we covered include:

Stephanie’s introduction to mass violence at the age of 9
Strategic communication as a tool for change
‘Those who tell the stories rule society’
Revolution in communication methods
Transparency and visibility in communication essential for trust
When expectations and reality don’t align
Manipulation vs. Strategic Communication
Values vs. Interests in international development
Role of social media in strategic communication
Holy trinity of government regulation, individual responsibility, and social media companies to tackle echo chambers
Understanding the local context
Stephanie’s view on the current situation in Afghanistan

If you've enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends and followers. It will help grow the show and allow The Voices Of War to be heard far and wide.

My guest today is Adam Cooper. He is the Director of Digital Conflict for the Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue, or HD. Adam has been with HD for over a decade and now oversees a global programme of work mediating offensive cyber operations and disinformation on social media. He also hosts ‘The Mediator’s Studio’ podcast, which provides some incredible insights into what happens behind closed doors when peace agreements are negotiated.

Prior to his current role, Adam managed HD’s Myanmar operations. And before joining HD, he coordinated election observation missions in Asia and served as an adviser to former Maldivian President Mohamed Nasheed. He has degrees from Oxford University and the Harvard Kennedy School. Adam is a Thai and UK national and currently lives in Brussels. Some of the topics we covered are:

Adam’s journey into the world of conflict negotiation
Private mediation and the work of HD
Why confidentiality is important when looking for alternatives to military only solutions
Straddling multiple diplomacy tracks
Lessons learned from senior negotiators
‘Peace is made in stages’
Dangers of not negotiating with the ‘enemy’
Adam’s experience in Myanmar
Digital conflict, digital threats and understanding the problem
Challenge of establishing norms of online behaviour
‘Freedom of speech’ vs. ‘Hate speech’
Responsibility of social media organisations
Experimentations of ‘Peace Tech'

To find out more about the 'ups and downs' of conflict mediation, listen to 'The Mediator's Studio', available here.

Since starting 'The Voices of War', many people have asked me how this podcast came about.

A few weeks ago, I was interviewed by Pascal Gemperli who runs the popular 'Conflict transformation, Peacebuilding and Security' (CoPeSe) group. Pascal was kind enough to give me ample time and space to share a bit of my own background and the story behind The Voices of War podcast. We touched upon my early experiences as a refugee, life in the Army, the story behind starting CrossFit Sarajevo, my exposure to the world of development work and ultimately the motivations behind the podcast.

Many thanks to Pascal for this opportunity. You can find out more about his 40,000+ members community, 'Conflict transformation, Peacebuilding and Security', at www.copese.org/ or by searching for CoPeSe on LinkedIn, Facebook or YouTube.

My guest today is Sahar Fetrat, a young Afghan living and studying in London. Born in Afghanistan but forced to flee when she was only one year old, Sahar returned with her family to Kabul when she was 10 and stayed there until graduating from university. She then moved to Budapest to pursue her first Masters at the Central European University before moving onto her second Masters in War Studies at King’s College London, where she is currently a student.

Sahar introduces herself as a ‘feminist who’s navigating her way between activism and academia’—a journey that has seen her produce short films as well as becoming a prominent social commentator. During her relatively short, but impactful career, Sahar has directed two short films, one called ‘- this is Kabul’ and the other ‘Do not trust my silence’, with the latter winning a best film prize at an Italian short-film festival. Both films seek to challenge the position Afghan women and girls hold in that society. More recently, Sahar has published articles that seek to highlight the struggle of women and girls in her homeland, an issue particularly relevant now that the Taliban has returned to power.

Some of the topics we covered are:

Life of a child refugee
Kabul during the ‘peaceful’ years
Answering the call of activism
Failure of ‘black and white’ narratives
Defining feminism
Role models that influenced Sahar
The story of ‘Do not trust my silence’
Lived experience of women and girls in Afghanistan
Camera as a weapon against inequality and abuse
Taliban attack on Sahar’s university
Losing her mother and father
Scars of war and importance of legitimising emotions
The current situation in Afghanistan
The power of individual action

Sahar mentioned a program, ‘Sahar Speaks’, that introduced her to the power of the camera. That same program has recently helped resettle two dozen alumnae in host nations around the globe. You can find out more about their struggles and help nurture their journalism careers at the following link:

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/resettle-afghan-women-sahar-speaks-reporters

My guest today is Dr Ghassan Jawad Kadhim, who is a political advisor and analyst of politics of the Middle East. His expertise lies in his own homeland, Iraq, where he has spent nearly twenty years supporting dialogue and development. He has worked extensively with local as well as international actors on diverse projects seeking to promote national reconciliation, co-existence, and peacebuilding. He has served as an adviser on anti-corruption, security, and political stability.

Ghassan is one of those people who seems to know everyone and is never far from decision makers. His enthusiasm to get things done has been publicly recognised in a book written about his life and contribution to Iraq by Dr Brian Brivati, a British historian, in his 2016 book ‘The Last Optimist In Baghdad’.

Some of the topics we covered are:

Becoming the ‘Key-maker’
Ghassan’s personal experience of torture at the hands of his own countrymen
The power of perspective in shaping narratives
The complexity of Iraq
The progressive destabilisation of Iraq over decades
Issues with domestic leaders and why they are stifling progress
Complexity of governance in Iraq
The birth and impact of ISIS
Interests of regional and global actors
Possible ‘redrawing’ of maps of Iraq and the region
Was the invasion of 2003 worth it?
The ‘curse’ of oil
What the future holds for Iraq

Today, my guest is LTCOL Dave Grossman. He requires very little introduction, as I’m sure most of my audience will be intimately familiar with his books, most notably the one that has revolutionised the way we think and talk about combat. The book is of course ‘On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society’, which was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize; has been translated into multiple languages; is on the US Marine Corps Commandant’s Required Reading List; and is required reading at the FBI academy and numerous other academies and colleges around the world.

He is now the director of the ‘Killology Research Group’ and is on the road almost 300 days a year, training elite military and law enforcement organisations worldwide about the reality of combat.

During our chat, we discussed a range of topics, including

Non-firers in combat and how we made killing a conditioned response
How anonymity can enable violence and the importance of non-verbal communication
The logic behind the term ‘killology’
What LTCOL Grossman means by the phrase ‘no pity party, no macho man’
Sleep deprivation and its effects on our societies
The issue with high doses of caffeine in energy drinks
The impact of sleep deprivation on ethical decision making in soldiers and first responders
Social blind spots and how they impact our decision making
The blind spot of creating a generation desensitised to violence and war
How medical technology decreases murder and death rate, and thereby hides an increase in violence
How otherwise good people come to do bad things, particularly in war
‘Killing enabling factors’ and how they can lead to atrocities
‘The virus of violent crime’ and its implications for our future
The need to understand causes of violence, not means to carry it out
The power and danger of information

Since I’ve barely scratched the surface of LTCOL Grossman’s extensive biography, you can find an extended version here. You can find a list of other books he has written over the years, including the two mentioned in our chat—'On Combat' and 'Assassination Generation'—here.

On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society

Today, I’m speaking with Dr Mike Martin and Dr Christopher Ankersen. I have spoken with Mike at the beginning of this crisis (link here) as well as a few months back (link here). Suffice to say that he is considered an expert on Afghanistan and is the author of the book ‘An Intimate War’, considered by many as the most authoritative book on the political, social and economic dynamics of Afghanistan.

Dr Christopher Ankersen is an Associate Professor at the Centre for Global Affairs at NYU. Prior to joining NYU, he enjoyed a colourful and eclectic career which includes being a security adviser for the UN, as well as serving in the Canadian Armed Forces for more than a decade. Throughout his career he has taught at the London School of Economics, the London Centre for International Relations, King’s College London, Carleton University, and the Royal Military College of Canada. He has also lectured at staff colleges in Canada, Australia, and Denmark. A link to his full bio is here.

Mike and Christopher join me on Saturday the 28th of August, just before 0500h Kabul time, to discuss the ongoing situation in Afghanistan and its implications for the region and the world.

You can find Mike's and Christopher's article titled 'The Taliban, not the West, won Afghanistan's technological war', here.

Today, I once again spoke with Hizbullah, an Afghan security analyst and journalist, who remains in Kabul. We recorded our first discussion on 17th of August, only a day after the Taliban took control of Kabul where we discussed how we got to where we are now (you can access that episode here). Today, we spoke about the current situation and what the future might hold for the people of Afghanistan.

Today, I spoke with Ehsaan who came to Australia in December 2013 as a refugee from Afghanistan. He worked as an interpreter first for the Americans, then the Dutch and finally for Australian forces from 2009- 2013, He was ultimately resettled to Australia with his family due to an increasing threat to his life. He joins me today to discuss the reality faced by many of those who have worked with Australians and other coalition forces over the past 20 years. Ehsaan is someone who has personally experienced the fear and uncertainty that many are going through in Afghanistan today. During our chat, I use only his first name and do not talk about where he is from directly, as he still has family on the ground, whose safety remains uncertain.

This morning I spoke with Hizbullah Khan, a journalist and political analyst, who has been writing about the war and terrorism in Afghanistan since 2014. He has reported for outlets like the BBC World, The Independent, The Diplomat, The Globe Post and many other global publications. He joins me on the morning of 17th of August from Kabul, where it’s a few hours past midnight, to discuss the unfolding situation.

Before reading the rest of the show notes, keep in mind that, as at 21st of Nov, Kay and her team have successfully assisted over 3500 Afghan-Australian visa holders from Afghanistan. Keep this amazing feat in the back of your mind while your read the notes and listen to the episode.

My guest today is Dr Kay Danes, OAM. She is the recipient of the Medal of the Order of Australia for her service to the international and Australian community in human rights & social justice.

Kay has a PhD (Law & Justice) and her thesis explored the evolving professionalisation of the Australian Humanitarian sector. She also holds a Masters degree (Human Rights), and varying professional qualifications in Business Administration, Security and Law.

Her 25-year security and humanitarian career has spanned across Australian and foreign government departments, humanitarian, and private sector organisations in armed conflicts, disasters, and other complex emergencies.

Kay is also extensively connected to the ADF. She is the spouse of an SAS Veteran who has served 43 years in the ADF/SOCOMD and was Regimental Sergeant Major of two Special Operations Task Group rotations in Afghanistan.

More recently, Kay’s work in Afghanistan has been recognised by Australian and Foreign Officials as an integral part of a national debate on Australia’s commitment to Afghanistan.

Today she advocates for the 196 Australian Embassy staff seeking protection and evacuation from Kabul. Given the current situation in Afghanistan, hers is an important voice representing those who helped the Australian effort over the past 20 years.

Today, I spoke with Dr Mike Martin about the current situation in Afghanistan. As there is a lot of international interest in the unfolding crisis, I am releasing the episode slightly ahead of my regular publishing cycle and only two hours since recording.

You can hear Dr Mike’s full bio in our previous episode linked below as well as through his own website, which is also linked below. In short, Dr Mike has spent years studying Afghanistan, served there as a British Army Officer, did his PhD on British involvement in Helmand, is a fluent Pashto speaker and is the author of the book ‘An Intimate War’, considered by many Afghanistan experts as the most-authoritative book on the dynamics and true nature of conflict in this part of the world.

You can listen to our previous episode here, find out more about Mike’s work here and follow his Twitter feed @ThreshedThought.

An Intimate War: An Oral History of the Helmand Conflict

My guest today is David Livingstone Smith, who is a Professor of Philosophy at the University of New England.

He has authored nine books with his more recent titles focusing on dehumanisation, race, and propaganda. His 2011 ‘Less Than Human: Why We Demean, Enslave and Exterminate Others’ won the 2012 Anisfield-Wolf award for nonfiction. David’s most recent book ‘On Inhumanity: Dehumanization and How to Resist It’ was published by Oxford University Press in 2020, and his tenth book, ‘Making Monsters: The Uncanny Power of Dehumanization’ will be published by Harvard University Press later this year.

David is an interdisciplinary scholar, whose publications are cited not only by other philosophers, but also by historians, legal scholars, psychologists, and anthropologists. He has been featured in prime-time television documentaries, is often interviewed and cited in the national and international media and was a guest at the G20 economic summit in 2012.

As many listeners will know, David is a leading thinker in this field, and has influenced much of our understanding of dehumanisation. We had a wide-ranging discussion and covered topics such as:

David’s motivation behind his research focus
Race as a cultural construct
The view one is ‘marinated’ in, is what one perceives as ‘real’
Different races vs. human variation
Race vs. Ethnicity
Assigning values to lives and the psychological cost of it
Overcoming the resistance to killing in war
Racilising and Dehumanisation as a protective mechanism in war
The cost of desensitisation to killing
Definition of dehumanisation
Psychological, political and social dimensions of dehumanisation
Why we’re all vulnerable to the process of dehumanisation
Dehumanisation is not a choice, but something that happens to us
The power of the environment and social forces
The need to assist soldiers ‘cleanse’ after killing on battlefields
The need to understand why atrocities in war occur
The ‘Essence’ of being human
‘Making Monsters’
The need to face our ‘past’ to understand our ‘today’

If you've enjoyed this episode, I would appreciate it if you could share it and tag @thevoicesofwar so that I can say hello.

On Inhumanity: Dehumanization and How to Resist It

Less Than Human: Why We Demean, Enslave, and Exterminate Others

My guest today is Professor Shannon E. French from Case Western Reserve University (CWRU) where she is also the Inamori Professor in Ethics, and the Director of the Inamori International Center for Ethics and Excellence. Prior to her current role, she taught for 11 years at the US Naval Academy in Annapolis, where she was a tenured member of the Ethics department and Associate Chair of the division of Leadership, Ethics, and Law.

Shannon’s primary research field is military ethics, with a special focus on conduct of war issues, ethical leadership, command climate, sacrifice and responsibility, warrior transitions, ethical responses to terrorism, the future of warfare, and emerging military technology, including Artificial Intelligence. Her publications include ‘The Code of the Warrior: Exploring Warrior Values, Past and Present’, which we discussed today, as well as a number of edited volumes, book chapters and peer-reviewed articles on military ethics. You can read Shannon's full biography here.

Some of the topics we covered are:

Shannon's entry into the field of military ethics
Background to the 'Code of the Warrior'
Common 'codes' among warriors across cultures
The embodied identity of the 'warrior'
Our collective responsibility towards our 'warriors'
Given how we fight wars today, are 'war crimes' and ethical demise inevitable?
Issue of the 'Supreme Emergency'
The need to focus on civilians
Interests vs Values as reasons for war
Moral injury and 'death before dishonour'
How do we categorise 'terrorists'?
Should we fight 'evil with evil'?
Shannon's new project on military ethics and AI

I think this is one of the most important conversation I've had so far as it goes to the core of the reality of military service, particularly as it relates to the ongoing War on Terror. I would love to hear what you think so tag the show using the handle @thevoicesofwar on Twitter, Facebook or LinkedIn.

The Code of the Warrior: Exploring Warrior Values Past and Present

My guests today are Will Yates and Joe McCleary. Will is a freelance writer, documentary producer and investigative researcher for television, film and radio with more than 18 years’ experience producing factual programming for outlets such as The National Geographic, BBC and the History Channel. Throughout his career, he has spent many years investigating the war in Iraq and recently published his first book titled ‘War Trials: Investigation of a Soldier and the Trauma of Iraq’.

The book is a true account of Joe’s time serving in Iraq as a British soldier in 2003 and his role in the tragic death of a 15-year-old Iraqi boy, which lead to multiple war crimes court cases of which he was ultimately cleared. Throughout the ordeal, Joe battled with severe mental health issues and has tried to take his own life numerous times. This book is the first time that a British soldier accused of war crimes in Iraq has opened up in an unguarded and in-depth manner. As a result, the book is a deeply moving account of the true nature of war and explores themes of military conduct and responsibilities of those serving in war zones.

Will and Joe join me today to discuss the book as well as to dive deeper into some of the issues Joe’s war experience has brought to light. Some of the topics we covered are:

How and why the book came about
Details of the tragic incident
Reality of soldiering in Basra during the first days of the invasion
The importance of shedding light on soldiers’ experience in war
Gradual desensitisation to human suffering
Looting in Basra and second order effects of adaptability and initiative
Life as an accused ‘war criminal’ and ensuing mental health challenges
Investigations and the trial
Life after the Army

As you will hear, Joe’s descriptions of soldiering as well as mental health challenges he faced are very emotional and visceral. Hence, this episode may be quite disturbing to some listeners.

Lastly, for my Australian audience, military and otherwise, if you or someone you know are suffering, there is help available. Below are some of the many agencies offering support. For my audience around the world, please look for help. Even if there are no services in your area, the internet has opened up many previously unavailable avenues. As Joe says in the episode, you are important, so please take the necessary first step and look out for yourself and each other.

All-hours Support Line

(1800 628 036 / +612 9425 3878 if O/S)

1800 IMSICK

(1800 624 608)

Defence Community Organisation (DCO)

Defence Family Helpline

1800 624 608

http://www.defence.gov.au/dco/

Open Arms (VVCS)

1800 011 046

https://www.openarms.gov.au/

Lifeline

13 11 14

https://www.lifeline.org.au

Suicide Call back service

1300 659 467

https://www.suicidecallbackservice.org.au

War Trials: Investigation of a Soldier and the Trauma of Iraq

My guest today is one of Australia’s most-prominent photo/investigative journalists, Andrew Quilty. Andrew started his career in Sydney, then moved to New York City and eventually to Kabul, Afghanistan, after a two-week trip to photograph the Afghan cricket team turned into an odyssey now into its eighth year. He has worked in all but a handful of Afghanistan's 34 provinces, photographed for most of the world's premiere publications and won several accolades, including a World Press Photo Award, a Polk Award, several Picture of the Year International awards and the Gold Walkley, Australian journalism's highest honour.

More recently, Andrew has focussed on the written word. His 18-month investigation into a CIA-led Afghan militia, responsible for several massacres in 2019, for The Intercept, was recently the recipient of an Overseas Press Club of America Award. His most recent piece published in the April edition of The Monthly is titled, ‘The Worst form of Defence: New revelations of Australian war crimes in Afghanistan’, which is an investigation into alleged war crimes by Australian special forces in Uruzgan. This, of course, is separate to the 'Afghanistan Enquiry' released in Nov last year.

We covered many topics, including:

Andrew’s entry into photography
The craft of photography
The pull of Afghanistan
‘Seeing’ the people of Afghanistan
Danger of oversimplified narratives of conflict
Second-order effects of coalition operations
Foreigner’s (lack of) understanding of Afghanistan
Background to his award-winning photo “The Man on the Operating Table”
Andrew’s shift to the written word
The dangers of life as a war journalist
Andrew’s views on the future of Afghanistan

You can see some of Andrew's photographs via his webpage here, read Andrew’s article 'The CIA’s Afghan Death Squads' here, and his article ‘The Worst form of Defence’, here.

For recent updates on the situation in Afghanistan, you can follow Andrew on Twitter (@andrewquilty). If you'd like to comment on the episode, visit us @TheVoicesOfWar.

My guest today is John Blaxland, who is a Professor of International Security and Intelligence Studies and former Head of the Strategic and Defence Studies Centre at the Australian National University.

Prior to his academic pursuits, John enjoyed an extensive career as an Intelligence Officer in the Australian Army including as the principal intelligence staff officer for the Australian infantry brigade deployed to East Timor in September 1999, an intelligence exchange officer in Washington DC, Director Joint Intelligence Operations at Headquarters Joint Operations Command and Australia’s Defence Attaché to Thailand and Myanmar.

John's full biography, along with his academic credentials and the extensive list of books he has published, can be viewed here.

As you will hear, we covered a broad range of subjects, including:

John’s Army career and journey into academia
Building the cultural knowledge of Timor Leste
When strategy and tactics don’t align—reflection on Australia’s involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq
Were Australia’s commitment to Afghanistan and Iraq strategic successes or failures?
Impact of operations in the Middle East on Australia’s understanding of Southeast Asia and the South Pacific
Understanding the human terrain and culture—critical to mission success
John’s proposal to create a regional maritime cooperation forum for Malaysia, Australia, New Zealand, Indonesia and Singapore—MANIS
Australia’s posturing towards China
Likelihood of war between US and China

You can access ‘Niche Wars: Australia in Afghanistan and Iraq, 2001 to 2014’ here. And, as promised in the intro of the episode, you can order ‘The Australian Army From Whitlam to Howard’, here.

My guest today is Džemil Hodžić who was born in Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and was only nine years old when the war started in 1992. In this episode, Džemil describes in intimate detail the hugely traumatic and emotional experience of watching his brother, Amel, killed by a Serb sniper while playing in the street. As such, this episode may be quite disturbing to some listeners.

Having survived the war, his experiences inspired him to launch the ‘Sniper Alley Project’ in 2019. The mission and goal of the project was initially to find photos of his brother. However, since its inception, it has grown immensely and today, together with the help of other survivors, his aim is to establish a database to record and archive the life of his brother as well as the lives of thousands of children who experienced the war in Sarajevo. By collecting photos of the Siege and preserving the memory of survival through the eyes of children, Džemil seeks to tell those long stories that have been forgotten as a way of preserving the truth.

Some of the topics we covered include:

‘Normalcy’ of life under siege in Sarajevo
Coming to terms with death and eventually opening up about his own trauma
Murder of his brother
Remembering and memory
Life after tragedy
The ‘Sniper Alley Project’
The power of narratives
Importance of preserving history
On forgiveness

I was deeply moved and impacted by this conversation, and I thank Džemil for his openness and courage to be vulnerable.

My guest today is Hasan Aygun. He is a Turkish national, who has had an extensive career in international relations, global security and conflict management both as a diplomat and later as a political adviser. Hasan joined the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs in 1983, and since then, he has served abroad in various functions, including Vice-Consul, First Secretary, Head of Mission and Counsel General in several different countries including Iraq, Italy, Serbia (at that time still Yugoslavia), Austria, Azerbaijan and Saudi Arabia.

He later became a senior political adviser for NATO where over the years he provided advice to six different four-star generals. During this time, he supported NATO humanitarian operations in places like Pakistan during the Kashmir earthquake and in the US during Hurricane Katrina. He also actively participated in Operations in the Sudan and Somalia as well as in counter-piracy operations and support to the African Union.

Hasan is currently an Associate Director at Strategia Worldwide, where he advises multinational businesses, governments and NGO's on complex risk management in conflict affected regions with a geographical focus on the former Soviet states, the Middle East, Africa, the broader Islamic World as well as maritime and energy transportation.

We covered many different points, some of which are:

The life of a diplomat
The nuance of balancing national vs. local priorities in a war zone
Reflections on Hasan’s lunches and tea ceremonies with Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi
The importance of ‘interests’ in determining whether a conflict becomes local or international
Secondary interests as reasons why the West invaded Iraq
Helping Bosnian refugees as a Turkish diplomat in Serbia during the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina
The importance of narratives propagated by ‘people you want to believe’ and ‘pack identity’ in starting and sustaining war
Why otherwise good people do horrible things
Post-conflict recovery as an industry
Difficulty and lack of incentives in finding a win-win solution in war zones
How national interests shape NATO interventions or lack thereof
50% of success in an intervention rests on understanding the culture of stakeholders in a conflict
Are all societies ready for democracy?
Why a war between the US and China is not likely

Finally, as you’ll be reminded in the introduction to the episode, here is the link for a short survey on the podcast. Thank you for taking two minutes to complete it.

https://forms.gle/HzBzMeDnGuSGUJi89

I hope you enjoy the episode.

My guest today is Major General Roger Noble, AO DSC CSC, who recently retired from the Australian Defence Force as a senior officer in the Australian Army. During his extensive career, he has commanded the 2nd Cavalry Regiment, the Al Muthanna Task Group in Iraq and was also Commander 3rd Brigade. Throughout his years of service, he has deployed six times on operations to East Timor, Afghanistan and Iraq.

Most recently, General Noble was appointed as Australia's Ambassador for Counterterrorism and is responsible for leading international engagement and representation at bilateral, regional and multilateral forums in the field.

As you will hear, we covered a range of topics, some of which include:

General Noble’s first deployment to Iraq in 1992 as part of the UN Special Commission to destroy Saddam’s WMDs
Reflections on his return to Iraq in 2005 and 2016
Context behind his three rules: ‘Be culturally aware, keep a low profile and stay in the corner of their eye’
Negotiating with the ‘enemy’
Importance of individual as well as organisational self-awareness
The need for an anthropological understanding of our own culture, then of our friends and finally of our enemies
Suggestion on how we improve our understanding of the human terrain in operational theatres
Importance of on-the-ground personal experience within senior leaders
Why the military is the go-to toolbox for Western democracies
‘He with the best narrative wins’
The nature of contemporary war
General Noble’s reflections on the true nature of war
The risk of resting on our laurels

Finally, as you’ll hear about in the introduction of this episode, here is the link for a short survey on the podcast. Thank you for taking two minutes to complete it.

https://forms.gle/HzBzMeDnGuSGUJi89

I hope you enjoy the episode.

My guest today is Anthony ‘Harry’ Moffitt, a recently retired veteran of the Australian Defence Force where he served for nearly 30 years. Most of that time, he has spent in the Special Air Service Regiment, more commonly known as the SAS. During his time, he completed 11 active service deployments amassing nearly 1000 days on Special Operations globally.

Since leaving the Army, Harry has become a registered psychologist and runs a human performance consultancy working with sports teams, the military and industry. He is also the Asia-Pacific Director for the Mission Critical Team Institute. He is also the lead singer and songwriter for the rock band The Externals.

Harry also recently authored his memoir, 'Eleven Bats', which is a book about his military service, the SAS and his love of cricket. Along with the book, some of the other topics we covered are:

Harry's journey into the SAS
The first years of the war in Afghanistan
How strategy translates into tactics or how it fails to do so
Importance of understanding the human terrain
Change in how the SAS came to be used
The price of war paid by those most-vulnerable
Selecting the right people for the SAS
The act of killing and its aftermath
Ethics of war and its link to mental wellbeing
The price paid by family members of those who serve
The power of cricket on deployments
The role of education in a soldier's life

This was a hugely satisfying and rich discussion and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did recording it.

Harry's book 'Eleven Bats' is available at:

https://www.dymocks.com.au/book/eleven-bats-by-anthony-harry-moffitt-9781760877842

Harry's podcast with Deane-Peter Baker that we mentioned is available as episode #18 at: https://missioncti.com/teamcast/

Finally, the Externals recently released their new single 'The Hell Beyond' on Spotify. You can find it at: https://open.spotify.com/album/5NNRcziDrTnwr6orAT6R3N

My guest today is Cian O’Driscoll. He is originally from Limerick, in the Southwest of Ireland where he completed his schooling and undergraduate degree, before moving to Nova Scotia, and then Wales, for Grad School. He completed his PhD at the University of Wales, Aberystwyth, and worked at the University of Glasgow before joining the Australian National University, Canberra in 2020.

His principal area of research is the intersection between normative international relations theory and the history of political thought, with a particular focus on the ethics of war.

His published work examines the development of the just war tradition over time and the role it plays in circumscribing contemporary debates about the rights and wrongs of warfare. These themes are reflected in his two monographs: Victory: The Triumph and Tragedy of Just War (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2019) and The Renegotiation of the Just War Tradition (New York: Palgrave, 2008).

Cian has also co-edited three volumes and his work has been published in leading journals in the field, including International Studies Quarterly, the European Journal of International Relations, the Journal of Strategic Studies, the Journal of Global Security Studies, Review of International Studies, Ethics & International Affairs, and Millennium.

Some of the topics we covered today are:

Cian’s research on the narratives that the Bush and Blair administrations used to frame the 2003 war in Iraq
Reflections on the widening of the jus ad bellum (justifications for war) since the end of the Cold War and its consequences
Exploration of Gulf War 1 as a ‘just war’ and the potential irony of its aftermath
The inability of Just War Theory, try hard as it might, to sanitise war
The challenge faced by military leaders when wrestling with Just War Theory
‘Just War is just war’

I thoroughly enjoyed this discussion with Cian, and hope you do as well. I recently finished his book that we frequently mention, Victory: The Triumph and Tragedy of Just War, and can warmly recommend it to anyone contemplating the complexities of Just War Theory—the principle tool used by Western militaries to manage conflict.

My guest today is Pip Weiland. She commissioned into the Australian Army Psychology Corps in 2003, and in her career performed diverse roles across clinical, organisational, professional development, research and staff positions. She has deployed to the Solomon Islands, Iraq, and to Afghanistan on two occasions. Whilst deployed to Afghanistan, she was the lead in the critical incident response to Australian Army soldiers killed in action. She ended her military career in 2020, as the Commanding Officer, 1st Psychology Unit.

Pip was awarded a Conspicuous Service Cross in the 2018 Queen’s Birthday Honours for the superior management of several sensitive, high-profile matters including the immediate psychological response to witnesses to the death of a soldier in training.

Pip is passionate about evidence-based treatments and has a special interest in psychological resilience and the mental health issues associated with exposure to combat. She is now a Regional Director for Open Arms – an organisation focused on providing mental health and wellbeing support for current and ex-serving Australian Defence Force personnel and their families.

Some of the topics we covered are:

Psychological screening on operations
Stigma surrounding psychological treatment
Truth about ongoing employability despite mental health challenges
Critical incident management in response to death on operations
The importance of the ‘tribe’ for mental wellbeing
The process of identity creation in the military
Suicide rates in defence members
Treatment of mental health challenges
Services offered by Open Arms

This was another hugely insightful episode that touched on many aspects of mental health challenges experienced by veterans and their families. For our Australian audience, particularly around ANZAC Day, please look out for one another and reach out to any of the numbers below if you or someone you know may need a helping hand:

All-hours Support Line

(1800 628 036 / +612 9425 3878 if O/S)

Open Arms (VVCS)

1800 011 046

https://www.openarms.gov.au/

1800 IMSICK

(1800 624 608)

Defence Community Organisation (DCO)

Defence Family Helpline

1800 624 608

http://www.defence.gov.au/dco/

Lifeline

13 11 14

https://www.lifeline.org.au

Suicide Call back service

1300 659 467

https://www.suicidecallbackservice.org.au

Soldier On

1300 620 380

www.soldieron.org.au

My guest today is Brendan Cox. He has served in the Australian Army for 25 years, first as a soldier, and later as an officer in the Infantry Corps. During his time, he has done a number of operational tours including to Bosnia, East Timor and Afghanistan. For his exemplary service, he has received a number of awards, including a Commendation for Distinguished Service in the Australia Day Honours List in 2014.

Brendan is now the Chief Executive Officer of Legacy Brisbane, an organisation that supports families who are experiencing hardship due to the loss or injury of a loved one while serving in the armed forces. Some of the topics we covered are:

Brendan’s first encounter with death on operations while in Bosnia
Healing our own wounds by helping others
Responsibilities of command
Importance of staying engaged with families while loved ones are deployed
Building partnerships with foreign forces
Importance of understanding the human terrain
Legacy and its work with families
Legacy and its work with youth

As you will hear, this was a truly humbling conversation and I encourage you to support the work done by Legacy. You can find more details on:

https://www.legacy.com.au/

My guest today is Tomislav (Tomo) Cvitanusic. He is a well-known figure across the Balkans and beyond, not only for being an extreme alpinist and long-distance athlete, but also for his promotion of cooperation and unity across the region. As one of the many who served in the Bosnian Army from 1992-1995, Tomo spent the whole war in his city, Sarajevo. At the end of the war, he became a beacon of positivity across the region by promoting tolerance, hard work and patience. He was one of the few who in the early days after the war sought to become the change he wanted to see in his community. This quest for betterment has led him to conquering some of the world’s highest mountains including Mt. Blanc, GrossGlockner, Elbrus, Ararat, Aconcagua, Denali, and the famous Matterhorn. He has completed more than fifteen marathons around the world, including four of the "World’s Major Marathons” in Berlin, Boston, NYC and London. Recently, he also became the first person from the former Yugoslav republics to complete the prestigious and most extreme triathlon in the world, NORSEMAN in Norway. As you will hear, we talked about some of his experiences from the war and how these shaped who he became. Some of the topics we covered are:

What life inside a war zone is really like
Banality of conflict and how we can rebuild trust in disrupted communities.
Survival of humanity and decency inside a war zone
Where Bosnia and Herzegovina is today, more than 25 years after Dayton
Links between life in a war zone and endurance sports
Tomo’s views about the transience of life and responsibility to help others

I walked away from this conversation inspired to find new ways to contribute to my community. I wish you the same and hope that you enjoy this episode.

My guest today is Paul Marshall. He is a recently retired British Army officer who spent 34 years in uniform. He has deployed on multiple military operations all over the world including on combat, peacekeeping and post-conflict recovery operations. He started his career in South Korea as a UN observer before spending time in Bosnia and Herzegovina during some of the most difficult times of the war. He also took part in both Gulf wars as part of the fighting forces. In the subsequent years he supported a number of global crises and natural disasters before once again returning to Bosnia and Herzegovina in 2014, this time in the prestigious role of United Kingdom Defence Attaché to Bosnia and Herzegovina. Some of the topics we discussed are:

Tensions at the DMZ between South and North Korea
Management of Iraqi prisoners of war
Scars of war among some of his peers
The aftermath of the Ahmići massacre in Bosnia and Herzegovina
The importance of immediate support during natural disasters
Understanding of the local context as a force multiplier

As you will hear in the episode, we make reference to the Ahmići massacre in Bosnia and Herzegovina. You can find further information here:

https://ahmici.sensecentar.org/

Also, I made reference in the discussion about Bosnia and Herzegovina being the highest recipient per capita of foreign aid. Here is the data from The World Bank. When looking at the figure, keep in mind that the population of Bosnia and Herzegovina is around 3.3-3.35 million.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/DT.ODA.ODAT.CD?locations=BA

My guest today is Dr Mike Wessells, Professor at Columbia University in the Program on Forced Migration and Health.

Over the decades, Mike has conducted extensive research on the holistic impacts of war and political violence on children, and he is author of the book ‘Child Soldiers: From Violence to Protection’.

Currently, Mike is the lead researcher on inter-agency and multi-country action research on strengthening community-based child protection mechanisms. He also regularly advises UN agencies, governments, and donors on issues of child protection and psychosocial support, including in communities and schools.

Some of the topics we covered during our conversation are:

Ongoing confusion about the definition of Child Soldiers
Some of the push and pull factors that encourage child soldiering
How children deal with trauma
Misunderstanding of Western interventions
Importance of culturally appropriate interventions
Agency of children in war
Healing and overcoming trauma
Self-care needs of humanitarian workers

This was a very confronting conversation and I remain deeply grateful to Mike for sharing his invaluable lessons on this important topic. As you will hear, not only is Mike an eminent expert on the subject, but he is also deeply compassionate and a true gentleman.

You can find out more about Mike’s work and his publications on:

https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/people/our-faculty/mgw2106

And you can find out about his book ‘Child Soldiers: From Violence to Protection’ here:

https://www.amazon.com/Child-Soldiers-Protection-Michael-Wessells/dp/0674032551

Child Soldiers: From Violence to Protection

Today I’m proud to be bringing to you an episode on a topic that, as an Army officer, I think is not discussed enough—Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) amongst war veterans. My guest, Ashley Judd, and I went through our Army officer training at the Royal Military College – Duntroon together, way back in 2007. Since then, Ash spent 8 years in the Army and is a veteran of the war in Afghanistan. Due to his experiences of that war, and his actions and responsibilities in the line of duty, Ash faced significant challenges and was ultimately diagnosed with PTSD. In the years following, he became somewhat of a spokesperson for lifting the veil of shame on PTSD. I think this is an incredibly important conversation, both because Ash spoke so candidly and openly about his experience, but also because it sheds much light onto the fact that recovery is possible.

Some of the things we covered are:

Ash’s reasons for joining the military
The training he received and how effectively it had prepared him for combat
The challenge and privilege of command
His experience of combat
His struggle with mental illness
Speaking out publicly and accompanying fears
Recovery and finding meaning again

As promised in the episode, here are the links to Ash’s excellent TedX Talk at the London Business School:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0NMDlkarvE

as well as to the ABC Insight episode I referred to during out conversation:

https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/11868227710/insight-s2012-ep30-insight-2012-ep-30

Lastly, for my Australian audience, military and otherwise, if you or someone you know are suffering, there is a lot help available. Below are the contacts and websites of some of the many agencies offering support. For my audience around the world, please look for help. Even if there are no services in your area, the internet has opened up many previously unavailable avenues. As Ash says in the episode, you are important, so please take the necessary first step and look out for yourself and each other.

All-hours Support Line

(1800 628 036 / +612 9425 3878 if O/S)

1800 IMSICK

(1800 624 608)

Defence Community Organisation (DCO)

Defence Family Helpline

1800 624 608

http://www.defence.gov.au/dco/

Open Arms (VVCS)

1800 011 046

https://www.openarms.gov.au/

Lifeline

13 11 14

https://www.lifeline.org.au

Suicide Call back service

1300 659 467

https://www.suicidecallbackservice.org.au

Today I’m speaking with Dr Mike Martin, a former British Army Officer who has since become a prominent speaker and writer on conflict, particularly its causes. Mike has published several books on the subject, including ‘An Intimate War: An Oral History of the Helmand Conflict 1978-2012’—which landed him in some hot water—and ‘Why We Fight’, a deep dive into the evolutionary reasons for war and conflict. More recently, Mike has been engaged by the Australian Defence Force to deliver a course on the impact cultural understanding can have on a conflict as a way to improve our collective understanding of the wars we have been a part of and are likely to be involved with in the future. Some of the topics we covered on this podcast include:

His reasons for delving into the profession of arms, both as a participant as well as a scholar of it
The true nature of war
Sense of belonging and the pull of ideology
The importance of the local context, particularly when fighting a war
The failings of the war in Afghanistan
Mike’s personal battle with getting his book ‘An Intimate War’ published
The five social problems we need to solve to prevent violence
The current crisis in the United States

You can find out more about Mike and his work on http://www.threshedthought.com/, including information on his books ‘An Intimate War – An Oral History of the Helmand Conflict 1978-2012’, ‘Crossing The Congo’ and ‘Why We Fight’.

My guest today is Dejan Mujkanovic. He is an Australian Army officer with 19 years of military experience. He has completed several tours of Afghanistan and also deployed to East Timor. He was born in Bosnia in 1980 and experienced the full brunt of the civil war in the 90’s. His hometown of Prijedor made global news due to the campaign of ethnic cleansing committed by the Bosnian Serb forces seeking to forcefully remove the Bosnian Muslim and Bosnian Croat populations from the area. As a result of these crimes, many of Dejan’s extended family members were lost in concentration camps, which, sadly, includes his father Senad Mujkanovic who was killed in the Omarska concentration camp in 1992. In the ensuing chaos, Dejan was separated from his mother and his siblings, and they have lived apart ever since. During his journey, he was forced to spend over two years in various refugee camps in Croatia and Austria and in late 1995, he was fortunate to settle in Australia with his grandmother. Now, 25 years later, Dejan is married and a proud father to his son. Some of the topics we covered are:

His reason for joining the Army
How the war in Bosnia started for him
The loss of his father and other members of his family
Fleeing the war and time as a child refugee
Issues of identity
Genocide and collective guilt
The idea of forgiveness
What good soldiering looks like
Settling in Australia
How his experience influenced his military service

A short introduction to this podcast, how it came about, and what we'll be exploring in the episodes to come.

Thank you for joining me.

Maz