The Minister's Ordinary Conversation: Recent Episodes
Jeremy Jessen
The Minister's Ordinary Conversation is a podcast dedicated to equipping and encouraging pastors to be radically ordinary theologians for the good of their churches and the glory of God.
Ben is the Senior Pastor of the First Baptist Church of Cabool in Cabool, Missouri.
Gear:
Mildliner Highlighters
Spiral Bound ESV
Mr. Pen No Bleed Pens
Books:
The Forgotten Spurgeon by Ian Murray
The Master Plan of Evangelism by Robert Coleman
God's Good World by Jonathan Wilson
Crazy Busy by Kevin DeYoung
The Soul Winning Church by J.A. Medders and Doug Logan
The Soul Winner by C.H. Spurgeon
Family Unfriendly: How Our Culture Made Raising Kids Much Harder Than it Needs to Be by Timothy Carney
Timothy P. Carney is a father of six children, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and a columnist at the Washington Examiner. Tim and his wife, Katie, have raised their family in suburban Maryland and Northern Virginia.
Bad Therapy: Why The Kids Aren't Growing Up by Abigail Shrier
About the Author: Abigail Shrier received the Barbara Olson Award for Excellence and Independence in Journalism in 2021. Her bestselling book, Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters (2020), was named a “Best Book” by the Economist and the Times. It has been translated into ten languages.
Other Resources Mentioned:
iGen: Why Today's Super-Connected Kids Are Growing Up Less Rebellious, More Tolerant, Less Happy--and Completely Unprepared for Adulthood--and What That Means for the Rest of Us by Jean Twenge
Generations: The Real Differences Between Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, Boomers, and Silents—and What They Mean for America's Future by Jean Twenge
The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure by Greg Lukianoff & Jonathan Haidt
The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness by Jonathan Haidt
Dr. John Greever is the Senior Pastor at First Baptist Church, Fenton, Missouri.
https://fbcfenton.com/
Email Dr. Greever: John.Greever@fbcfenton.com
Knowing God Album by Sovereign Grace Music: https://open.spotify.com/album/6kFQYERknrmQg2N7cnGpKg?si=rGCQZthJTn2OE3cgGsGB_w
Welcome back to this ordinary conversation. In season 3, I am exploring a new format: a solo podcast on Tuesday, and an interview with a special guest released on Thursday.
Justin Perry is the Senior Pastor of the First Baptist Church of Viburnum, Missouri.
Resources:
Extreme Ownership
Never Split The Difference
A Tale of Three Kings
Gear:
Spyderco Knife
Top Shelf Leather
Justin's Vacation Rental Business:
JJ's Vacation Rental
Love Thy Neighbor Program at First Baptist Church Viburnum:
Donations can be sent to PO Box 585 Viburnum MO 65566, and checks made out to Love Thy Neighbor
Ryan Gold is the senior pastor of New Covenant Community Church in Denver, Colorado.
Resources:
Confessions by Augustine
Spiritual Depression by Martin Lloyd-Jones
Knowing God by J.I. Packer
No Place for Truth by David Wells
The Church and the Surprising Offense of God's Love by Jonathan Leeman
Newton on the Christian Life by Tony Reinke
Future Grace by John Piper
Ben Leonard is the Senior Pastor at the First Baptist Church of Cabool, Missouri.
Benjamin Brew Coffee
Instruments in the Redeemer's Hands by Paul David Tripp
Finally Alive by John Piper
Knowing God by J.I. Packer
Mike Hubbard is the Senior Pastor of Genesis Church in Eureka, Missouri.
Knowing God by J.I. Packer
Desiring God by John Piper
Note to Self by Joe Thorn
Kingdom Come by Sam Storms
Adam Utecht is the Senior Pastor at Community Church Fond du Lac in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin.
References:
The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self: Cultural Amnesia, Expressive Individualism, and the Road to Sexual Revolution by Carl R. Trueman
Love Thy Body: Answering Hard Questions about Life and Sexuality by Nancy Pearcey
Dale Harris is the Senior Pastor of Highland Community Church in Cokato, Minnesota.
References:
- Deep Discipleship by J.T. English
- Reformed Dogmatics by Herman Bavinck
- The Temple and the Church's Mission: A Biblical Theology of the Dwelling Place of God by G.K. Beale
- Typology-Understanding the Bible's Promise-Shaped Patterns: How Old Testament Expectations are Fulfilled in Christ by Jim Hamilton
- The Day the Revolution Began by N.T. Wright
- Dale's Blog Post About James MacDonald and Harvest Bible Chapel
A pastor-theologian is a biblically-educated, theologically-grounded intellectual who makes disciples by teaching the local church and engaging the public square. Listen to the last episode of this season where I unpack the definition that will shape our understanding of this critical office.
This week on The Minister’s Ordinary Conversation we talk about the power for spiritual maturity: The Holy Spirit. The production of spiritual maturity is impossible without the person and work of the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 5:16–25
[16] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. [17] For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. [18] But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, [20] idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, [21] envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [23] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. [24] And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. [25] If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.
Today we examine Paul's prayer for spiritual maturity in Philippians 1:9-11.
And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment, so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.
Praying With Paul: A Call to Spiritual Reformation by D.A. Carson
Having discussed the problem of evangelical anti-intellectualism and the sentimental juvenilization of American Christianity we turn to Scripture to establish the priority of spiritual maturity. In so doing, we will create a foundation for the pastor-theologian paradigm of ministry for which this podcast was founded. The texts I cover in this episode are listed below in the English Standard Version:
Titus 2:11–14
[11] For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, [12] training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, [13] waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, [14] who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
Philippians 2:12–13
[12] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, [13] for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Ephesians 4:11–16
[11] And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, [12] to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, [13] until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, [14] so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. [15] Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, [16] from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.
Colossians 1:28–29
[26] the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. [27] To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. [28] Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ. [29] For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me.
“We’re all adolescents now.” So begins the treatise by Thomas Bergler called The Juvenilization of American Christianity. He has written extensively on this topic, essentially lamenting the lack of spiritual maturity in American Christianity due to the shift of priority toward youth ministry during a specific time in history. Additionally, Todd Brenneman wrote a fascinating assessment of modern American Christianity in his book Homespun Gospel: The Triumph of Sentimentality in Contemporary American Evangelicalism, and in this work he demonstrates that sentimentality has overtaken modern evangelicalism to such a degree that maturity isn’t something Christians think about. I believe juvenilization and sentimentality have combined to assault the Christian ideal of spiritual maturity and a response is necessary. I offer a brief attempt in today's podcast.
The Juvenilization of American Christianity
From Here to Maturity
Homespun Gospel
This week on The Minister's Ordinary Conversation, we continue our discussion of anti-intellectualism in modern Christianity and I argue that anti-intellectualism is actually anti-discipleship. Christians are expected to make progress in their faith (Titus 2:11-14; Philippians 2:12-13; Ephesians 4:11-16; Hebrews 5:12-6:1), and refusing to learn is essentially refusing to follow Jesus. I look forward to our discussion.
This week on The Minister’s Ordinary Conversation we talk about the evangelical allergy against thinking.
“We evangelicals need to examine our anti-intellectualism, confess its pervasiveness, repent of its wrongness, and seek God’s restoration to live up to our name—truly being people of the gospel who love God not only with our hearts, souls, and strength, but also with our minds.”
So says Os Guinness in his wonderful book Fit Bodies, Fat Minds. He goes on to point out that evangelicals’ rampant anti-intellectualism will have dangerous results for their witness in the world. I think he is right and I look forward to discussing it with you.
Fit Bodies, Fat Minds by Os Guinness
The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind by Mark Noll
How to Think by Alan Jacobs
Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman
True Devotion by Alan Chapple
Last week Peggy Noonan released a column in the Wall Street Journal on Ukraine's peril and how it stirred the West's humanity. She said, "It wasn't geopolitics or ideology that determined world reaction to what happened in Ukraine this week, it was normal human feeling. An army of tanks and troops violently invades a border country populated by its cousins – a country a third its size with a tent it might – and people watched and thought: that's not right." I think she's right. But is there more to our view of the situation in Ukraine than mere humanity? How should we think about this conflict?
Today we’re covering a topic related to pastors leaving the ministry (Episode 3) and pastors under criticism (Book Review 1): anger. When reading through the Old Testament, it is easy to notice the anger of Moses as he leads the people of God. In Exodus 32:19 it says that Moses’ anger burned hot, and he threw the Ten Commandments from his hands. In Numbers 11 Moses is displeased, and asks God to kill him rather than to make him continue to lead the people. In Numbers 16 Moses was very angry and told the Lord not to respect an offering of the people. Most notably, in Numbers 20, when God told Moses to speak to the rock in order to give people water, Moses struck the rock, calling the people, “rebels.”
Were Moses' outbursts simply "righteous indignation?" How do we know if our anger is righteous? How can we deal with the sin of anger in our own leadership? Listen to this short attempt to deal with these questions.
Links:
Uprooting Anger by Robert Jones
Anger, Anxiety, and Fear by Stuart Scott
Good and Angry by David Powlison
A Small Book about a Big Problem: Meditations on Anger, Patience, and Peace by Ed Welch
The first book review episode of The Minister's Ordinary Conversation comes on the heels of Episode 3, which focused on the number of pastors thinking about leaving the ministry. One reason for this phenomenon is criticism. Pastors receive complaints about many things, and a resource for processing that criticism is necessary. In 2020, Joel Beeke and Nick Thompson produced such a resource. I review this helpful book in this episode and wholeheartedly recommend it to pastors as they process criticism.
Pastors and Their Critics: A Guide to Coping with Criticism in the Ministry
Welcome to “The Minister’s Ordinary Conversation,” a podcast dedicated to equipping and encouraging pastors to be radically ordinary theologians for the good of their churches and the glory of God. Today we’re covering a concerning topic: the number of pastors considering leaving the ministry.
2021 Barna Survey: Pastors Are Considering Leaving the Ministry The Pastors Aren’t All Right Are More Pastors Quitting Today?
Be Thou My Vision: A Liturgy for Daily Worship Valley of Vision Lectures to My Students Spiritual Depression
Today we’re covering several news stories related to work and rest. Categorically, if you remember the podcast introduction I am doing this in an effort to remind you that you minister in a context. The issues in the news and the culture affect people in your congregation and pastors should do what they can to sharpen their skills in speaking with their people about these things.
Note: All three articles covered today are from the Wall Street Journal. The Wall Street Journal is my periodical of choice for news coverage, because the news is balanced and the opinion pages are thoughtfully conservative in structure.
The Underside of the Great Resignation by Mene Ukueberuwa
Virus Wave Fuels Worker Absences by Harriet Torry
Relearn the Word “NO” to Reset Your Balance by Rachel Feintzeig
Welcome to “The MInister’s Ordinary Conversation,” a podcast dedicated to equipping and encouraging pastors to be radically ordinary theologians for the good of their churches and the glory of God.
Today we will talk about the Endless Loop of COVID-19, the Fine Art of Small Talk, and the need for Analog Church. Thank you for joining me.
The Endless Loop of COVID-19 by Peggy Noonan
The Fine Art of Small Talk by Debra Fine
Analog Church by Jay Kim
Welcome to “The Minister’s Ordinary Conversation,” a podcast dedicated to equipping and encouraging pastors to be radically ordinary theologians for the good of their churches and the glory of God. My name is Jeremy Jessen, and I am your host. I have been thinking about doing this for a long time. I wrote my dissertation on Charles Spurgeon as a pastor-theologian and it was my research into his life and ministry that convinced me that 1) the pastor-theologian model of ministry is right and best, and 2) almost no one today wants that kind of ministry in their church. Thus, it can be challenging to serve a church as a pastor-theologian when a pastor-chaplain, pastor-entrepreneur, pastor-activist, or pastor-politician would be more readily welcomed. The purpose of this podcast is to encourage pastors to be radically ordinary theologians in their churches, taking the title: (The MInister’s Ordinary Conversation) from a chapter in Spurgeon’s Lectures to My Students wherein he encourages pastors to carry themselves in a particular manner as they generally engage society. In point of fact, six of his principles serve as my categories for this program and I want to share them with you in this short introduction.