Mindy Diamond on Independence for Financial Advisors: Recent Episodes

View Details

A Special Industry Update, With Jason Diamond and Mindy DiamondJason and Mindy Diamond revisit how advisor due diligence is evolving—from AI and enterprise value to firm stability, ownership, and optionality—and why those questions matter more than ever.

In SummaryDue diligence has always been about finding the right fit. But what advisors are evaluating has expanded considerably.

In this replay of an Industry Update, Jason Diamond and Mindy Diamond revisit The Advisor Transition Playbook to explore how advisor priorities continue to evolve. Beyond the traditional reasons advisors consider change, they discuss newer factors shaping decisions today—from artificial intelligence and enterprise value to ownership structure, firm stability, and long-term optionality.

The conversation reinforces that while every advisor’s motivations are personal, the evaluation process has become far more strategic. Today’s advisors aren’t simply comparing recruiting deals or platforms. They’re considering how today’s decisions may influence the value, flexibility, and future of the businesses they’re building.

The StorylineFor years, advisor movement was largely driven by familiar themes: bureaucracy, management changes, technology frustrations, and the desire for greater independence.

Those factors remain important. But the conversations Diamond Consultants has with advisors today increasingly include questions that rarely surfaced just a few years ago.

How should AI factor into firm selection? What is the long-term value of building enterprise value instead of simply maximizing a recruiting package? How important is a firm’s ownership structure? And how should advisors think about stability in a marketplace where acquisitions, recapitalizations, and private equity investment have become commonplace?

Jason and Mindy revisit the transition framework introduced in Part 1, focusing less on the mechanics of making a move and more on the evolving criteria advisors are using to evaluate their options.

The result is a broader discussion about due diligence—not simply as a transition exercise, but as an ongoing strategic process for advisors seeking to build their best business life.

Topics Covered* Advisor due diligence * Traditional vs. emerging drivers of advisor movement * Artificial intelligence in wealth management * Enterprise value and advisor ownership * Recruiting deals versus long-term economics * Reverse due diligence * Firm ownership and stability * Private equity in wealth management * Advisor optionality * Building a long-term advisory business

Blubrry Player

> Download a transcript of this episode…

Listen and Learn Highlights for AdvisorsWhy are the traditional drivers of advisor movement still relevant? (4:00)

Jason and Mindy revisit the longstanding push-and-pull factors that continue to influence advisor decisions, from bureaucracy and management frustrations to the desire for greater ownership and control.

How has AI become part of the due diligence process? (13:50)

The discussion explores why advisors increasingly expect firms to demonstrate a clear AI strategy—and why investment, integration, and vision may become meaningful competitive advantages.

Why should advisors care about enterprise value, even if they don’t technically own their business? (24:30)

Jason and Mindy explain why more advisors are evaluating decisions through the lens of long-term business value rather than solely short-term economics.

What does reverse due diligence really involve? (37:15)

The conversation highlights why advisors should evaluate prospective firms with the same rigor firms use when evaluating advisors.

How does firm ownership affect advisor optionality? (38:00)

Private equity, acquisitions, and changing ownership structures have made it increasingly important to understand what happens if a firm’s strategy changes after an advisor joins.

Why has due diligence become more strategic than ever? (45:30)

The episode concludes with a broader discussion about defining one’s “best business life” and making decisions that align with long-term goals rather than reacting to short-term frustrations.

Key Takeaways* The reasons advisors evaluate change have expanded well beyond traditional frustrations such as bureaucracy and compensation. * AI has become an increasingly important component of firm evaluation, not because it replaces advisors, but because it can enhance productivity and client service. * Enterprise value is becoming a consideration even for advisors who currently work within employee models. * Reverse due diligence is just as important as a firm’s evaluation of an advisor, particularly when assessing ownership structure, capitalization, and long-term stability. * The most effective transition decisions balance immediate economics with long-term flexibility, ownership, and optionality. * Every advisor’s definition of success is different, making clarity around personal goals the foundation of any due diligence process.

https://youtu.be/WZbUZJZK1yc

Quotable Moments“Every advisor deserves to live their best business life.”

“Just because you’re frustrated doesn’t mean you should move. You need something worth moving toward.”

“The question isn’t simply what you’re paid today. It’s what you’re building over time.”

“Knowledge is power. Understanding what your business is worth should be part of every advisor’s decision-making process.”

FAQs Why are more advisors expanding their due diligence beyond compensation?

While transition economics remain important, advisors are increasingly evaluating technology, AI capabilities, enterprise value, ownership opportunities, and long-term flexibility as part of the decision-making process.

How should advisors evaluate a firm’s AI strategy?

Rather than looking for finished products, advisors should assess whether a firm has a clear vision, meaningful investment, and an integrated approach to using AI to improve advisor productivity and client experience.

What is reverse due diligence?

Reverse due diligence is the process of evaluating a prospective firm as thoroughly as the firm evaluates the advisor. It includes understanding ownership structure, financial stability, culture, technology, leadership, and long-term strategy.

Why does enterprise value matter for employee advisors?

Even advisors who do not currently own their businesses may benefit from understanding how different business models create opportunities for ownership, long-term value creation, and future monetization.

How has private equity changed advisor due diligence?

Private equity has introduced new opportunities for growth and capital, but it has also made it more important for advisors to understand ownership structures, investment horizons, and what future transactions could mean for their business.

What does Diamond Consultants mean by an advisor’s “best business life”?

It refers to aligning an advisor’s business model, goals, client experience, compensation, flexibility, and long-term vision in a way that best supports both the advisor and the clients they serve.

While transition economics remain important, advisors are increasingly evaluating technology, AI capabilities, enterprise value, ownership opportunities, and long-term flexibility as part of the decision-making process.

Rather than looking for finished products, advisors should assess whether a firm has a clear vision, meaningful investment, and an integrated approach to using AI to improve advisor productivity and client experience.

Reverse due diligence is the process of evaluating a prospective firm as thoroughly as the firm evaluates the advisor. It includes understanding ownership structure, financial stability, culture, technology, leadership, and long-term strategy.

Even advisors who do not currently own their businesses may benefit from understanding how different business models create opportunities for ownership, long-term value creation, and future monetization.

Private equity has introduced new opportunities for growth and capital, but it has also made it more important for advisors to understand ownership structures, investment horizons, and what future transactions could mean for their business.

It refers to aligning an advisor’s business model, goals, client experience, compensation, flexibility, and long-term vision in a way that best supports both the advisor and the clients they serve.

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

Related Resources The Advisor Transition Playbook: The Latest on Due Diligence, the Move, and Everything In Between – Part 1 * Annual Advisor Transition Report * Top 10 Tips for a Strategic Due Diligence Process * Should I Stay or Should I Go?*

View the transcript of this episode…
The Advisor Transition Playbook: The Latest on Due Diligence, the Move, and Everything In Between – Part 2

A Special Industry Update with Jason Diamond and Mindy Diamond.

Jason Diamond:

Welcome to a replay of one of the most popular episodes from our podcast series for financial advisors, The Advisor Transition Playbook: The Latest on Due Diligence, the Move, and Everything In Between. It’s Part 2 of a 2-Part Industry Update with Mindy Diamond.

I’m Jason Diamond and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors.

Mindy Diamond:

At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned. And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education driven and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner, well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at 908-879-1002.

Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our Annual Advisor Transition Report. It’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport.

Jason Diamond:

There’s been a noticeable shift in how advisors are approaching decisions about their business, not necessarily in whether they’re exploring change, but in what they’re focused on when they do. Mindy is back with me for a continuation of our earlier conversation on the Advisor Transition Playbook. Last time, we spent time on the mechanics, how due diligence works, what a move actually entails, and how to think through the process. What’s become more apparent since then is that the inputs into that process are evolving. The traditional drivers are still there, but layered on top are a set of considerations that didn’t carry the same weight before.

AI is one of them, and not just as a tool, but as a differentiator that advisors are starting to diligence more seriously. Enterprise value is another. Showing up in conversations, even for advisors who don’t technically own their business, but are thinking more critically about what they’re building over time. And then there are questions around stability, ownership, and flexibility. What happens to the firm itself and whether advisors retain the ability to adapt again if circumstances change. None of this is theoretical. It’s showing up in real time conversations. What we want to do here is unpack those new triggers of advisor movement and what they suggest about how decisions are being made today. So let’s get to it.

Mindy, the legend, thank you for joining me. So glad to have you on.

Mindy Diamond:

Thank you. I’m so happy to be here.

Jason Diamond:

Great. Let’s dive right in. I’ll set the stage really quickly one more time. When we spoke about this topic last, we talked about the drivers of movement, what we’ll call in this conversation as the old or the legacy drivers of movement, and we spoke about the mechanics of the move. Before we get into the new drivers of movement, which I want to be the meat of the conversation, remind us, when we talk about the legacy drivers of movement …. And by the way, by saying legacy, I by no means want to suggest that they’re not valid today, because they’re equally valid, if not more so today than they were then. But when you think of the classic drivers of movement in our industry, what are they?

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. So I would say, first of all, let’s start by saying that for every advisor, they’ve got a unique set of needs. So the first thing to say is that while you and I can talk about the categories of frustrations or things that might bother an advisor, they show up differently in each advisor’s life. So it’s important to note that everyone is unique.

But generally speaking, if I had to package them, I’d say it’s number one that shows up most of the time is too much bureaucracy. A feeling that a firm or a model is just too hypervigilant in terms of compliance and it’s too bureaucratic and too hard to get things done. Number two would be some sort of change in or frustration with management. Something is going on that the person or persons that are responsible for managing the business are just not … They’re not the wind at their back. They’re obstreperous. They’re causing difficulty and frustration. And probably the third one would be less about a pain point and more about the desire to be something that they couldn’t where they were. The notion that they want to be more independent, they want to be a business owner and they just can’t do that. That doesn’t exist within the model where they work. Those probably have been the three ones top of mind, but I bet you’ll have some … You’ll add to that.

Jason Diamond:

I’ll add a couple. But before I do, I’ve heard you talk about this topic, maybe said another way as pushes and pulls. Can you explain what you mean by that?

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. So I think that we think about the pushes, the frustrations, the things pushing somebody out the door, the factors that make it less easy or less fluid to do business. And there’s almost always pushes that exist when somebody comes to us, where they’re frustrated to some degree or another about certain things. But we tell people all the time that just to be frustrated should never be enough, because if all you’re doing is running from one set of problems, you’re very likely to run into maybe a different set, but still problems elsewhere. So a move needs to be driven in equal part, if not more, by pulls. Being pulled toward an opportunity that can be needle moving enough or better enough than where you are now. Pushes and pull.

Jason Diamond:

I love it. So let me ask you a little bit of a pointed question. Is a recruiting deal a valid pull factor?

Mindy Diamond:

So look, it’s different for every person. We’ve had advisors come and say, “I just went through a divorce and the most important thing to me is to recapitalize. And so a recruiting deal is really important.” And while I would never be one to say that’s not valid, it can be … And by the way, any advisor should want to and expect to better their financial situation. There should be economic gain. But it shouldn’t be the only or the primary reason for the move. So you want to monetize. The notion of wanting to monetize in the short term should be a factor in what model you pick, but it shouldn’t be the primary driver for a move.

Jason Diamond:

I agree with that wholeheartedly. I was going to say something I think maybe would’ve surprised you a little, which is like, yeah, I think recruiting deal is a very valid pull factor because what we’re saying is, it shouldn’t be the only pull factor. And sometimes it is and it makes us a little bit sad, I think, when that’s the case. But all of these factors you mentioned, and the ones I would add, I think that maybe technology would be another kind of factor that drives movement, all of these factors are not one specific reason. If you did the exit interview, either actually conducted the exit interview with advisors or thought exercise exit interview, I think they would point to a confluence of all of these factors. Compliance was a headache. I wanted to launch a podcast. I wanted to be able to send a timely communication to my clients. We used to hear that one during COVID a lot, right? By the time compliance approved something to send to clients, it was already stale.

So do you agree with that, that it’s generally a confluence or a combination of these? Or in your experience, is it advisors are like, “No, compliance or the tech is so bad, I’m out”?

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. So most often there’s a straw that breaks the camel’s back incident or thing where they’re willing to put up with a series of minor paper cuts, if you will. And then almost always there’s something that happens. You and I got a call the other day from a team that said that they had split from their partner and the management of the firm was favoring the ex-partner, making it harder for them to stay or making it less fun or feel good for them to stay. So while they gave me a laundry list of things that were imperfect, I don’t know that any one of the things that were imperfect up until then would’ve been enough to drive them out. But when that one thing, that feeling that they were a second class citizen came up, that was the straw that breaks the camel’s back and went from a minorly frustrated to, “I’m out of here.”

Jason Diamond:

Yeah. And there’s probably a hundred examples you could walk us through. And I wanted to just highlight too, this concept is not limited to the wirehouse or employee or captive firm world, this is equally relevant for independent advisors. Granted, some of the pushes and pull factors, some of the triggers are not necessarily the same, but the idea that advisors outgrow a broker dealer or an RIA or either need or want or desire in some way, shape or form, greater autonomy, flexibility, freedom, control is certainly not limited to the employee space. I just wanted to make that point.

Mindy Diamond:

And I think that’s absolutely right. I think the notion of that frustrations or limitations or bureaucracy only existed if you were a W2 employee at a bulge bracket firm. That went out the window. As the industry landscape has expanded and there’s more and more valid ways to be a financial advisor, there’s more and more ways for a firm or a model or an infrastructure to frustrate an advisor. And that’s not being overly negative. It’s just to say there is no perfection anywhere.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, 100%. And by the way, to play a little bit of devil’s advocate on that, and then we’ll move on, I would just say there are pain points that might come from a firm being small and subscale as well. My firm doesn’t have efficient technology. They don’t invest enough in the business. They don’t provide a lead mechanism. They don’t have a robust banking and lending or investment solutions platform. So this stuff cuts both ways. An advisor can be frustrated or limited and an advisor can be excited. Pushes and pulls I think touch on, we’ve heard from advisors in every single pocket of the market, this is a relevant concept.

Mindy Diamond:

The theme of this is that every advisor deserves to live their best business life. That’s what people are in search of when they reach out to us or when they engage with us. What they’re looking for more than anything, and this is irrespective of where they work or how long they’ve worked or how much they manage, every advisor is in search of their best business life. And what defines their best business life is having the best quality of work life, but also the best ability to do what they want to do with their business, to serve their clients without limitations, to grow the way they want, to be paid a fair wage, and ultimately set up to maximize the value of the business they’ve built. Those are the definitions of one’s best business life.

Jason Diamond:

I used an even simpler definition of best business life and I stole it from you, which is the true north concept, which is if your true north is maximizing enterprise value and chasing the dollar and trying to build something that’s scalable and saleable, then great. If your true north is to build a lifestyle practice, there’s plenty of advisors who are successful and happy and content in that regard as well. And I think that’s what we’re talking about, is finding your true north and then it’s possible. I mean, that’s the beauty of the landscape. We’re talking about this, a lot of this is pain points or things that advisors experience. The exciting part of this is there’s never been a better time to be an advisor because of the breadth of choice they have and the ecosystem that’s been born to support advisors, to your point, across the spectrum.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. And it’s also, I think, worth saying that it starts with really good crystal clear clarity around not only what’s frustrating you, but what you want ideal to look like. Because I can’t tell you, or I can tell you because … I can’t tell our listeners, I can’t stress enough how often we get calls from advisors that tell us where they think they want to be or tell us they want to move. They have clarity about what’s frustrating them or what they want to change, but they don’t really have clarity about what they want it to look like. And the less clarity you have, the less likely you are to be successful in finding the exact right solution. So our work, the thing we probably do best is really work with advisors to help them. It doesn’t take long. In an hour conversation, we can help them to really get crystal clear on what they’re looking to solve for.

Jason Diamond:

Absolutely. All right. Great appetizer. We set the table. Let’s dive into the main course now. I want to talk now about what I’m calling the 2.0 triggers or the new triggers of movement. And to be clear, it’s not that these are more important or better or more significant drivers of movement. In fact, you could argue they’re probably at present less significant than the ones we just listed. But I think what we’re saying is these are triggers that are starting to come up more and more in conversations and we expect them to only proliferate further. And in that regard, they’re noteworthy and important for advisors because advisors should be reconciling not just what are the things I need to be worrying about today, but also what are the things I need to be potentially worrying about five years from now. So with that in mind, let’s dive in.

I think the first one we have to start with is AI. And I always chuckle a tiny bit when we mention AI, we used to have to specify what are we talking about. Are we talking about artificial intelligence or alternative investments? And now it’s very clear. Everybody knows we’re talking about artificial intelligence. So the direction of the industry, no over-dramatization to say is at stake here. It’s that important of a topic. Let me ask you just very simply first, is this coming up in conversations with advisors?

Mindy Diamond:

Oh, all the time, but it’s almost table stakes. So I think the way it comes up is that people assume, advisors assume, and by the way, have the right to assume that AI is part of the tech stack. The notion that if I’m evaluating a firm and part of what frustrates me or part of what’s really important to me is cutting edge, really robust technology, part of what I am expecting is that a new firm is going to have really robust technology. And part of that is really robust access to AI. And has honed the AI in a way that’s user-friendly, that really answers or delivers on making me a better … Not replacing me as an advisor, but making me a better, more efficient advisor.

Jason Diamond:

100%. And I would also add, so as I think about this AI topic, I don’t want this to become a conversation around, is AI going to replace advisors, because I think we both agree that’s not going to be the case. Especially at the top end of the market for quality advisors, I think they’re not going anywhere. But in my view, when we think about the trigger of movement, AI has the potential to be transformative because a couple kind of use cases or trigger cases come to mind, and I’d love to hear your thoughts.

One is, do you think advisors will potentially consider a move because they’re worried about this? So in other words, play this logic out with me. I’m 55 years old and I’m like, “Oh man, AI might be coming from my job.” And there’s firms offering 400% of revenue to move my book. Maybe I should take that check and kind of de-risk and monetize while I can. What are your thoughts on that?

Mindy Diamond:

I absolutely think we’re already working with that fall into that category, but to say that is the only reason for the move would be wrong. I’m grateful that people trust us enough to be transparent with us. So they let us know that underneath the notion that they want to better serve clients, they ultimately want better access to A, B, and C, they want to be able to do D, E and F with less restriction, is really the main reason for the move. But underneath it, the notion that my book, I want to protect myself. My book may well be the biggest it’s ever going to be. It is going to be worth more today than it could be in the future if things don’t go my way. And if I know I’m going to move and one of my goals is to monetize, I might want to do that now.

Jason Diamond:

I agree. And that’s where the top deal story comes in also. Firms paying a top deal is a part of that story. It’s what you just said, plus advisors know firms are willing to pay incredible multiples. I mean, as we speak, UBS is in market with one of the largest deals in history. So those two narratives side by side, I agree. I think this becomes more of a kind of catalyst or driver movement. It’s come up in my conversations on both sides of the spectrum. It’s the tech savvy, AI savvy advisors who are excited about this, who are like, “I want to be the most AI enabled version of myself I can be. It’s going to make me a rockstar and it’s going to widen the gap with my peers,” but it’s also come up with the people who are, I think, rightly scared and fearful about what this might mean for their job.

Mindy Diamond:

Let me ask you, what are examples of the way you’ve seen some of the best firms who have embraced AI? What is their narrative? What is it that they’re saying to advisors that if you come here from a tech or AI perspective, you’ll be better because we’re able to do … Fill in the blank.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah. So a couple that come up. First of all, I want to make the important point. Advisors do not expect that firms, either their current firm or firms that they are diligencing prospectively, have this figured out or solved. Everybody understands this is a fairly new area that firms are still very much kind of developing their strategies in. What advisors want to see is a few things. They want to see though leadership, they want to see investment, and they want to see a strategy, right? Effectively, they want to see a step in the right direction, really. So I’ll give you a couple examples. There are a number of tech savvy RIAs, very tech-enabled, AI-focused RIAs, because I think this is easier to be nimble. I think where you’ll see this quicker probably is in the independent space.

That what they’re doing is things like this. An advisor logs on to their workstation in the morning and their system queues them proactively, Mr. and Mrs. Smith may be good candidates for a Roth IRA conversion. And then if the advisor decides to contact the client in some way about it, the system will of course help them draft the communication, but then it’ll take it a step further and actually help them to process and transact that conversion. So soup to nuts, ultimately driving efficiency. That’s the name of the game. That’s why firms, I think, are excited about AI, at least the good firms. Because what I think they realize it will do is, the stuff that’s a waste of time that could be automated that advisors, and probably even more so their associates, client associates are spending time on, that should be a massive time saver for advisors. And I think if you play that story out, what does that mean? It should mean bigger books of business and therefore more productive advisors because they have more time to prospect and focus on their clients. Thoughts?

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. So I think you said it perfectly, but it raises the question then. You say that the RIAs can be more nimble. You’re right. I mean, the big story around the biggest firms was like moving a battleship, it takes a long time to turn it. It’s not as nimble. So what and how are the bigger firms competing against the RIAs with respect to AI? And second question, we still always get questions, and rightly so, about Morgan Stanley has more money to invest…

Jason Diamond:

That was going to be part of my answer.

Mindy Diamond:

… than fill in the blank RIA. So how does that all work?

Jason Diamond:

That is absolutely going to be part of my answer, is that I have heard this question posed almost presumptively both ways. “Oh, it’s got to be that the RIAs are going to be the clear winners in this.” And I’ve also heard, “Oh, it’s got to be that the wirehouses are going to be the clear winners in this.” I don’t think it’s going to be channel specific like that. I think it is going to be firm specific. I think there’s going to be firms that are going to do this well and firms that are going to not do this well.

But there’s going to be winners in the wirehouse space. There’s going to be winners in the regional firm space, with firms like Raymond James who are clearly trying to be on the cutting edge of this. There’s certainly going to be winners in the broker-dealer space. LPL is investing heavily in this, as are many of their broker-dealer competitors. And then of course the RIA space, where sometimes they may not have the budgets, but they have a couple things. They have private equity backing, sometimes. They have the custodians that they’re built on, right, or the tech vendors that they’re built on. So Schwab and Fidelity or Orion and Addepar. They have other ways to access these innovations.

One of the things that comes up with this that your question I think gets at is, a similar question that was raised around technology stacks, which is strength of offering versus integration. And that’s where I think a firm like Morgan Stanley really will shine, is they should … Because they don’t put anything out that’s not well integrated. The big firms have generally done a pretty good job of that. Versus the RIAs. Sometimes we’ve heard feedback where, yes, you have access to you name it, right? You dream it up, you can go and buy it. But the left hand may not speak to the right hand quite as well.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah, that’s actually a really good point. And integration is probably one of the biggest … If you ask an advisor when they talk about technology as either being one of their pushes or pulls, probably what they’re referring to more than anything is not only having the capability, but having the integrated capability. So that’s a great point. And I think your point is right, that the final chapter on this has not been written. Nobody thinks that it has. And so whatever answers you and I can talk about today about who’s winning this race, or this tech race or this AI race, will be totally different tomorrow. We all know that. But I think for purposes of this conversation, to say that an advisor having an expectation that their technology be outstanding and that AI be on the table, that a firm is embracing it and heading in the right direction, if you will, has the right thought leadership and the right willingness to invest in it is what advisors are really looking for right now.

Jason Diamond:

Absolutely. And this is a question too from the firm’s perspective, if you are a firm of any size, you must be able to answer that. This has become question 1A. And again, I don’t mean to suggest that I think AI is the number one most important factor driving advisor movement today. It very well might be at some point down the road. I don’t think we’re there yet. But I do think it’s the topic du jour or the hot topic, where every advisor is asking about this. So that means if you’re a firm, you need to be prepared to tell the story or at least have the vision.

And I think what we’re hearing from both advisors and from firms is this, AI is going to … What is right now a gap between the good and the bad, the quality and the non, is going to become an absolute chasm, right? An absolutely mountainous gap between the best firms and the firms who are able to adapt this technology or this AI. And the same thing at the advisor level, between the AI-enabled superpowered advisor versus those who are in the dinosaur ages, for lack of a better term.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. And we’ll move on, but it is worth saying that the day of the standalone independent, the one man or one woman band who hangs out a shingle, and to use your term, running a lifestyle practice, nothing wrong with that, but it would be near impossible to imagine a world where a standalone independent can compete with a private-equity-backed RIA or an RIA that has a big pool of capital behind them or to compete with the major firms. And our point is the ability to compete is probably more important with respect to this topic than just about any other.

Jason Diamond:

Totally agree. Thank you for tying a bow on that because I think that’s a good place to leave the AI topic, at least for now. I’m certain we’ll have more to say on this one. By the time we release this episode, we’ll probably have more to say on it. So we’ll have to do a follow-up again. But I want to talk now about enterprise value. And this is one where if you’re an RIA or if you’re an advisor at an independent firm, this might sound like a duh, but hear me out on this one. The idea is as follows, if I’m a wirehouse advisor or any sort of captive advisor, I don’t technically own anything. Agree?

Mindy Diamond:

Agreed.

Jason Diamond:

Okay. So if that’s true, that I don’t technically own anything, I technically don’t have any sort of enterprise value or ability to monetize. But my premise here and why I would argue that enterprise value has become a driver of movement is even wirehouse advisors know … They see teams like OpenArc, a massive RIA that launched last year. They see their corner office peers breaking away, starting independent firms. They see them selling to asset managers, private-equity-backed RIAs, private equity firms in their own right for these massive multiples. And what I guess I’m getting at, and I’m curious if you agree is, if a wirehouse advisor, let’s say, sees their colleagues sell to a private equity firm for 20X, doesn’t that have to become a little bit of a catalyst for movement in its own right?

Mindy Diamond:

Without a doubt. Historically … Actually, let me date myself. When I started this business now 32 years ago, there was zero way for an advisor who was a captive employee of a firm, of any firm, to monetize their business. It’s why there was so much movement, because the only way they could monetize was to get paid a big fat transition deal to move from one firm to the other.

Jason Diamond:

Yep.

Mindy Diamond:

Obviously, we all know that first it started with the big firms, and then just about every brokerage firm on the street began to offer a retire-in-place program. And that is the big firms or a traditional brokerage firm’s way of allowing advisor to monetize in place from their perspective to stave off attrition. And for an advisor that believes that the status quo serves them well, that finishing their career, that leaving their legacy, that leaving their team at their firm is the best thing to do, then those retire-in-place programs, like Merrill’s CTP or Morgan’s FAP or UBS’s Alpha or a name at every firm has them, is the best gift to advisors there is.

But the problem is that the next generation at those firms are buying an asset they don’t own. And so when we talk about enterprise value or the desire to build enterprise value as a real driver of movement, what we’re talking about is not only that advisors want ownership of an asset, because ownership translates into more control and autonomy and agency over building it the way you want to, but it also translates into maximizing the value of the business that you’ve built. So that’s a long-winded way of saying that the OpenArc deal you are referencing, for anybody not familiar, is a Merrill Lynch team, a legacy Merrill Lynch team in Atlanta that was managing more than 120 billion in assets, part retail, ultra high net worth client assets, and part institutional consulting assets. And believe me, I don’t want to make it sound like it was a snap that one day they’re happy and the next day they’re going independent. Over a 10-year period became more and more aware, driven by the pushes and more aware of the pulse.

But ultimately, while there was a long list of things they wanted to be able to do that they couldn’t to best serve clients and grow the business, the real driver at the end of the day, or I shouldn’t say the real driver, but a major driver was the notion of building and owning enterprise value. Yes, they could have all gotten very attractive deals and retired with your Merrill CTP, but they wanted to own the business, they wanted cap gains treatment. And so they went through the sweat equity big time of building what they’re calling OpenArc for the ability for probably five, 10, 20 years, because there’s partners with all different ages, so at all different times, to be able to really maximize the value of the business they’ve built.

Jason Diamond:

Can I push back on that for … It’s a super helpful example, but my one thought is, okay, yeah, of course, 130 billion in assets, they should be concerned with enterprise value at that size. And the delta between caring about enterprise value and not is too great because those guys have, by all accounts, a phenomenal business that is rivaled by very few in the industry. Most of our audience does not fit into that stratosphere. So what about advisors in, let’s call it the million to $10 million space? Should they still care about this concept?

Mindy Diamond:

Again, it’s an inside job. It’s a personal thing. Some don’t. But the answer is yes. And if I were them, I would. Why? Because whether I am generating a million a year in revenue or $10 million a year in revenue, at the end of the day, I’ve got an asset. I’ve built a valuable asset. And I have the choice at the end of the day or the middle of the day to decide a million things about that asset. How do I want to live my business life? How do I want to serve my clients? Where do I want to work? But one of the biggest factors to determining where and how they want to work is, ultimately, do I want to be able to maximize the value of the business that I’ve built? And while there are few things that are really definitive in this industry, the one thing that is absolutely indisputably definitive is that if you build an independent practice like the ex-Merrill Lynch churned RIA OpenArc team did, you will ultimately build enterprise value exponential multiples greater than any way you could monetize the business as a traditional employee.

Jason Diamond:

And that math absolutely still holds up even at numbers smaller than we’ve mentioned. I totally agree with that.

I’ll give you one other reason why I think you should care. And I’d love your thoughts on this one. I’ll ask it two ways maybe. I’ll tell you my take and then I’ll ask you yours. Morgan Stanley, let’s use as an example. Who are Morgan Stanley’s competitors? In my opinion, the legacy answer to that is, well, of course the wirehouses are Morgan Stanley’s competitors. Merrill, UBS, Wells Fargo, what maybe used to be a longer list, but today those four. I don’t think that’s the answer anymore. I think those are the direct competitors. But because of this enterprise value conversation, I think Morgan Stanley’s competitors are anyone and everyone who recruits financial advisors with books of business.

Because if you think about it, an advisor who has a $3 million business at a wirehouse, even if they’re not actually going to do this, they don’t have any entrepreneurial spirit, no desire to go independent, they still know that they could. This is an option and a viable option. And firms are even figuring out ways to cut out the middle step, right? Because this was historically a two-step process. You’re a wirehouse advisor or a W2 advisor. You break away, launch an independent business to establish your enterprise value, begin building it, and then you monetize it. If you could cut out the middle step, or even if you couldn’t, I still think it’s pretty clear that if you’re an advisor, this is important because the firms know … Like when Morgan Stanley’s writing a recruiting deal, they’re kept honest by RIAs and acquirers just the same as their direct peer set. Do you agree with that or do you think I’m reading too far into this?

Mindy Diamond:

Oh no, I agree a thousand percent. I think that it is naive for anyone recruiting for or on behalf of a traditional firm to think that the only competition is another traditional firm. The days of pomposity for a senior leader at a traditional firm to say, “We’ve got the best technology, the best everything fill in the blank. We have no competitors.” That’s just naive. Because even if it’s true, you’ve got the best platform infrastructure fill in the blank, there is a multitude of advisors that value things different than what you can provide. Beauty is in the eye of beholder is probably a good way to say that.

But at the end of the day, what we’re really talking about is when I started the business, because there was no way, no really good way for an advisor to really monetize their life’s work, the only thing they could or were focused on from a personal financial gain perspective was the short-term deal. What are they paying? What’s the transition deal? Now, of course they’re concerned about that. But almost to a person, they’re equally concerned about what I can build and what will this allow me to build in terms of the value of the business I’m building in the long term.

So let me ask you, if we’re talking about an advisor that has the ability to monetize in the short term for what could be 4X and in some cases more than that these days, and we’re talking about the ability to maximize enterprise value, and we talk about the concept of moving once and monetizing twice, what kind of numbers are we talking about? Fill in the blanks there.

Jason Diamond:

It’s such a hard question to answer because I do genuinely believe recruiting deals, when you talk about 300 to 400% revenue deals in the recruiting space, they vary a little bit, but I feel pretty comfortable quoting those types of numbers that most firms are somewhere in the 300 to 400% of T12 realm. There are some outliers, we mentioned UBS. But the multiple or EBITDA based or enterprise value M&A market where we’re doing these legitimate buyout transactions, the valuations do vary quite a bit.

But here’s how I think about it. First of all, most firms are not purchased or sold at top line revenue. Most are sold at some sort of adjusted EBITDA number, which factors in local expenses, platform expenses, but also advisor compensation. And then that adjusted number is typically multipled. The multiples are anywhere from 8X for small kind of, let’s say, million dollar revenue businesses up to, we’ve seen deals struck at north of 20X for some of these mega cap RIAs. Typically, just back of the envelope, if I had to quote, I typically estimate around 5X top line at capital gains is a good kind of ballpark valuation. But there is quite a bit of nuance to it, more so than the traditional recruiting space.

And I do think, shameless plug, part of the value in working with somebody who’s an expert on the entirety of the industry landscape is just that. It’s the idea that you need to run the horse race across multiple verticals. The good advisors who work with us typically are looking at a wire like a Morgan Stanley or a Merrill. They’re looking at a boutique firm like a Rockefeller, or they’re looking at a regional like an RBC or a Ray J. They’re looking at an independent firm like an LPL or a Sanctuary. They’re looking all across the spectrum.

Mindy Diamond:

I think that’s exactly right. But the topic of enterprise value, you can see how powerful it is and how wise it is. For an advisor today, when considering their personal economics to consider not just the short term, but to weigh in or add in or factor in, what could I be building and what ultimately will that business be worth at the end of the day?

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, 100%. Short of going out and selling your business, what can advisors do then? So I’m an advisor, okay, I’m curious about this. Or is it just as simple as, “Yeah, you should know what your business is worth if you’re an advisor”?

Mindy Diamond:

Definitively yes, because I mean, we always believe that knowledge is power. And just like it’s important for you to understand what your options are within your own firm, how can I ultimately retire out and monetize my business where I am, I think it’s really hard to make a decision in a vacuum without having other perspective. And getting other perspective doesn’t have to be that you have to go out and take 20 meetings. It’s not that hard for you to figure out what your business is worth to make it a data point for whether or not you’re ultimately best to retire in place or go elsewhere.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, that I think is the main takeaway. And the education point is so important. I think because these are relatively new concepts for a lot of advisors that haven’t formally shopped a business before, there’s a lot of resources available. And we’ll certainly link some as well on the page for the episode.

Let’s shift gears now, our kind of final trigger 2.0, which is stability and ownership structure of the firm. And this has been a little bit of a hot topic. It’s honestly been a hot topic every year because it seems like things pop up every year. And a lot of times advisors don’t reconcile the question of who owns the firm or how stable is the firm until something happens. The firm gets bought, the firm goes bankrupt, like the First Republic scenario. What should a good advisor do proactively about the idea that if you’re a W2 employee or even an employee who’s affiliated with a broker dealer, you saw this with Commonwealth, you just don’t really have control over what the firm decides to do.

Give me your thoughts on this. I know it’s a big topic.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. First of all, using Commonwealth an example, it’s a good one. Because for those unfamiliar, Commonwealth is a boutique broker dealer that was privately owned and whose tagline was, “We love our privately owned status and we are never going to sell,” until one day they did. And not only did they sell, but they sold to the biggest independent broker dealer in the country, ala LPL. That’s not good nor bad, it’s just a fact. So if Commonwealth, who had definitively said we’re never up for sale, suddenly sells, any time you’re an employee of a firm, you never know what tomorrow brings in. You’re not in control over whether it’s sold. So that’s one example.

But as you’re talking about this, I’m thinking about, I’m probably going back 20 years, so I’m 10 years into my career and I talked to someone who had been a very successful Merrill advisor. So I’m going to say he was probably generating around $5 million in revenue at the time. Going back 20 years, that’s a pretty significant book of business. He was courted for years by what he thought was a top RIA. And in those days, remember 20 years ago, the RIA space wasn’t nearly as mainstream as it is now. But the story the RIA told him was that ultimately, one, he was going to be a partner in the firm, that was very appealing to him. So he was going to have equity in the firm and much more freedom and control. And locally, by the way, the RIA was a really high quality brand.

He worked on a lot of the economics, the short term and the long term with them. They did a ton of due diligence on his book of business. But he failed to ask … And I didn’t represent him. I just know this story. He failed to ask or do enough due diligence about the stability of the firm. What we think is really important, we talk about this expanded landscape. If you’re looking at Morgan Stanley, I don’t think you necessarily need to see Morgan Stanley’s balance sheet. If you are talking to a firm that is anything but a bulge bracket or anything but a large firm, it’s really important to do what we call reverse due diligence and to really understand if a firm expects you to open your kimono and show everything about your business to prove your worth, it is equally important that you do the same for them.

In this new world order where private equity has come in and there are so many different ways for a firm to be owned and to be capitalized, it’s very important that an advisor understand what’s going on behind the scenes. And one of the questions around stability, if a firm is private equity backed, is it permanent capital? Is it patient capital? Is the private equity firm going to look to sell and monetize in five years? And then who would the likely buyer be and what does that mean for you? So the question is a big question and it’s really important.

Jason Diamond:

I love everything you just said, except I do think even the wirehouses, wirehouse advisors, honestly, as much as anybody should be asking these questions. And I’ll give you an example right now, UBS. And UBS, it’s not a story of balance sheet stability. I don’t think anybody has concerns that UBS is going to fail. But UBS management has been very publicly, “Oh, we’re cutting costs.” There’s been some rumors, I think for years, probably dating back 30 years to when you started the business about UBS’s commitment to the US wealth management business. I think those questions about stability and ownership structure are still valid.

And to me, the implication of it is twofold. One, what you said, reverse due diligence, ask the questions, plan B. But also the concept of the exits or the off-ramps or how many bites of the apple do you get. So if you’re an advisor and you sell your business to somebody and you sign garden leave and non-competes and non-solicits, the question of ownership structure of that firm becomes less relevant because you have no off-ramps and no ability to exit that business anyway. A lot of times that’s how advisors get comfortable with this concept. And that’s what firms will tell them too, frankly, and we’re living through the middle of this, by the way, with Commonwealth and LPL, is vote with your feet, right? To the extent advisors can, the offer … And this is like, you used the example of private-equity-backed firms. This is how Rockefeller addresses the question of their private equity ownership. If we sell to UBS, all of our advisors will leave. They have that built-in put option.

So knowing where the off-ramps are or how many bites of the apple an advisor gets, I think is a big concept that ties into that. But we’re absolutely seeing this pop up, probably largely because of those two examples, Commonwealth and UBS this year, more so Commonwealth, to your point. Janney’s another example last year or two years ago now where KKR comes in and buys Janney. So when these examples happen, it seems like it triggers advisors to say, “Is this something that could happen to me and should I be thinking about this?”

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. So let me ask you a question. You’re talking, you’ve mentioned UBS offering this outsized deal. So how does the notion of stability and ownership factor in? If an advisor is considering an unprecedented deal from UBS, what are the caveats or concerns with respect to stability and ownership?

Jason Diamond:

It’s the same list of considerations you should and would ask of any other firm you’re diligencing, except I think amplified even more in the case … If I was counseling an advisor who was looking at UBS, that would be what I would say, is exactly that. You’re seeing all of these departures and defections, and I would want to have conversations with those advisors and understand exactly why and have guarantees or assurances that I’m not going to suffer from those same pain points that force them to leave. Or, and I say this a little bit flippantly, but it’s a little bit true, I understand the devil that I’m getting into bed with, but for 550%, or whatever the deal might be, I can suck it up. And that’s something that some advisors might well say as well.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah.

Jason Diamond:

I don’t want to end on the negative note of overly large transition, not there’s anything wrong with large transition deals, but as you look out, is there anything that’s coming up in your conversation with advisors that you view as the next wave of this? I’ll give you one that maybe you could touch on, and if you have another one, feel free to offer it in conclusion, but do you think age or advisors starting to succeed out of the business will become more of a driver of movement, even though to your point, advisors can access sunset deals?

Mindy Diamond:

I do actually, because I think the more the average advisor age increases, the more likely that those advisors are going to want to move on to do something else to monetize the business. And so much of the wave of movement we see is driven not so much by the senior advisor, because many seed advisors are happy enough with the ability to monetize their business in place. Even though it may not maximize the value of the business, it’s a close enough approximation and it means I don’t have to disrupt the apple cart. So we support that 100%. But where we get the calls is from the next generation that says, “Yeah, but hold on a minute. It’s a good way for me to take on a book of assets that I not otherwise have access to. And it’s great for my senior partner, my father, my mother, my whatever to monetize the business. But I’m buying an asset again that I don’t own and I ultimately don’t have control over all these things we’re talking about, the AI investment, the ability to create enterprise value, the stability, the cost cutting, all of it.”

So I think it’s all of the above. You say, “What else is there?” I think that’s it. It’s all of the above. It’s anything and everything that drives movement. One, it’s personal, it’s highly unique, it’s different for every advisor. There are certainly themes, and we’re talking about them, but there’s a million different things. It’s personal. And while there are an awful lot of pushes, things that can frustrate an advisor, it is the most exciting time in our view to be an advisor, particularly a high quality one, because the options abound, the ecosystem is big, because the ability to monetize both in the short term and the long term is big, mammoth, exponentially bigger than it ever was before. And the true ability to really build an enterprise has never been greater. And I think all of those things, the desire for an advisor to be the best that they can be and live their best business life is probably the biggest driver of all.

Jason Diamond:

It’s really true these days, if you can dream it, you can probably build it. And we’ve said in the past, if you build it, they will buy it. It’s a great place to end. This was a really fun topic. I think that’s a spot on kind of fourth trigger, by the way, too. This sort of next gen is almost like the force multiplier or the amplifier of like they see all this other stuff and they’re asking these questions even more so. Because if I’m 60 years old, none of this matters all that much. It matters, but I’m out of the business in five to 10 years. Versus the next gen advisors are the ones who often bear the brunt of this. So I think a lot of really smart stuff. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and expertise.

In the episode page, we’ll be sure we have our Industry Transition Report. And we’ve also created a tool, the top 10 tips for a strategic due diligence process, which is a great kind of practical hand-in-hand companion for this topic for advisors looking for more pointed tips on the due diligence process.

So Mindy, thank you again. This has been a blast.

Mindy Diamond:

My pleasure. Thank you.

Jason Diamond:

Thank you for joining us. We’ll be back with a new episode next week, so be sure to listen in.

Mindy Diamond:

As a financial advisor, you hold yourself to the highest standards of integrity, honesty, and credibility. You are successful because you take your professional responsibility seriously and are dedicated to your clients. But are you living your best business life? Are your goals aligned with your firms or could a better option exist? Should I Stay or Should I Go? is a book written with you in mind. It’s a self-guided journey that walks you through the key steps that we take with our advisor clients. This strategic thought process and roadmap to professional self-discovery is designed to help you ask the right questions and think critically and objectively, whether you’re considering change or not. Learn how to get your copy at diamond-consultants.com/thebook.

The Advisor Transition Playbook: The Latest on Due Diligence, the Move, and Everything In Between – Part 2

A Special Industry Update with Jason Diamond and Mindy Diamond.

Jason Diamond:

Welcome to a replay of one of the most popular episodes from our podcast series for financial advisors, The Advisor Transition Playbook: The Latest on Due Diligence, the Move, and Everything In Between. It’s Part 2 of a 2-Part Industry Update with Mindy Diamond.

I’m Jason Diamond and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors.

Mindy Diamond:

At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned. And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education driven and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner, well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at 908-879-1002.

Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our Annual Advisor Transition Report. It’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport.

Jason Diamond:

There’s been a noticeable shift in how advisors are approaching decisions about their business, not necessarily in whether they’re exploring change, but in what they’re focused on when they do. Mindy is back with me for a continuation of our earlier conversation on the Advisor Transition Playbook. Last time, we spent time on the mechanics, how due diligence works, what a move actually entails, and how to think through the process. What’s become more apparent since then is that the inputs into that process are evolving. The traditional drivers are still there, but layered on top are a set of considerations that didn’t carry the same weight before.

AI is one of them, and not just as a tool, but as a differentiator that advisors are starting to diligence more seriously. Enterprise value is another. Showing up in conversations, even for advisors who don’t technically own their business, but are thinking more critically about what they’re building over time. And then there are questions around stability, ownership, and flexibility. What happens to the firm itself and whether advisors retain the ability to adapt again if circumstances change. None of this is theoretical. It’s showing up in real time conversations. What we want to do here is unpack those new triggers of advisor movement and what they suggest about how decisions are being made today. So let’s get to it.

Mindy, the legend, thank you for joining me. So glad to have you on.

Mindy Diamond:

Thank you. I’m so happy to be here.

Jason Diamond:

Great. Let’s dive right in. I’ll set the stage really quickly one more time. When we spoke about this topic last, we talked about the drivers of movement, what we’ll call in this conversation as the old or the legacy drivers of movement, and we spoke about the mechanics of the move. Before we get into the new drivers of movement, which I want to be the meat of the conversation, remind us, when we talk about the legacy drivers of movement …. And by the way, by saying legacy, I by no means want to suggest that they’re not valid today, because they’re equally valid, if not more so today than they were then. But when you think of the classic drivers of movement in our industry, what are they?

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. So I would say, first of all, let’s start by saying that for every advisor, they’ve got a unique set of needs. So the first thing to say is that while you and I can talk about the categories of frustrations or things that might bother an advisor, they show up differently in each advisor’s life. So it’s important to note that everyone is unique.

But generally speaking, if I had to package them, I’d say it’s number one that shows up most of the time is too much bureaucracy. A feeling that a firm or a model is just too hypervigilant in terms of compliance and it’s too bureaucratic and too hard to get things done. Number two would be some sort of change in or frustration with management. Something is going on that the person or persons that are responsible for managing the business are just not … They’re not the wind at their back. They’re obstreperous. They’re causing difficulty and frustration. And probably the third one would be less about a pain point and more about the desire to be something that they couldn’t where they were. The notion that they want to be more independent, they want to be a business owner and they just can’t do that. That doesn’t exist within the model where they work. Those probably have been the three ones top of mind, but I bet you’ll have some … You’ll add to that.

Jason Diamond:

I’ll add a couple. But before I do, I’ve heard you talk about this topic, maybe said another way as pushes and pulls. Can you explain what you mean by that?

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. So I think that we think about the pushes, the frustrations, the things pushing somebody out the door, the factors that make it less easy or less fluid to do business. And there’s almost always pushes that exist when somebody comes to us, where they’re frustrated to some degree or another about certain things. But we tell people all the time that just to be frustrated should never be enough, because if all you’re doing is running from one set of problems, you’re very likely to run into maybe a different set, but still problems elsewhere. So a move needs to be driven in equal part, if not more, by pulls. Being pulled toward an opportunity that can be needle moving enough or better enough than where you are now. Pushes and pull.

Jason Diamond:

I love it. So let me ask you a little bit of a pointed question. Is a recruiting deal a valid pull factor?

Mindy Diamond:

So look, it’s different for every person. We’ve had advisors come and say, “I just went through a divorce and the most important thing to me is to recapitalize. And so a recruiting deal is really important.” And while I would never be one to say that’s not valid, it can be … And by the way, any advisor should want to and expect to better their financial situation. There should be economic gain. But it shouldn’t be the only or the primary reason for the move. So you want to monetize. The notion of wanting to monetize in the short term should be a factor in what model you pick, but it shouldn’t be the primary driver for a move.

Jason Diamond:

I agree with that wholeheartedly. I was going to say something I think maybe would’ve surprised you a little, which is like, yeah, I think recruiting deal is a very valid pull factor because what we’re saying is, it shouldn’t be the only pull factor. And sometimes it is and it makes us a little bit sad, I think, when that’s the case. But all of these factors you mentioned, and the ones I would add, I think that maybe technology would be another kind of factor that drives movement, all of these factors are not one specific reason. If you did the exit interview, either actually conducted the exit interview with advisors or thought exercise exit interview, I think they would point to a confluence of all of these factors. Compliance was a headache. I wanted to launch a podcast. I wanted to be able to send a timely communication to my clients. We used to hear that one during COVID a lot, right? By the time compliance approved something to send to clients, it was already stale.

So do you agree with that, that it’s generally a confluence or a combination of these? Or in your experience, is it advisors are like, “No, compliance or the tech is so bad, I’m out”?

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. So most often there’s a straw that breaks the camel’s back incident or thing where they’re willing to put up with a series of minor paper cuts, if you will. And then almost always there’s something that happens. You and I got a call the other day from a team that said that they had split from their partner and the management of the firm was favoring the ex-partner, making it harder for them to stay or making it less fun or feel good for them to stay. So while they gave me a laundry list of things that were imperfect, I don’t know that any one of the things that were imperfect up until then would’ve been enough to drive them out. But when that one thing, that feeling that they were a second class citizen came up, that was the straw that breaks the camel’s back and went from a minorly frustrated to, “I’m out of here.”

Jason Diamond:

Yeah. And there’s probably a hundred examples you could walk us through. And I wanted to just highlight too, this concept is not limited to the wirehouse or employee or captive firm world, this is equally relevant for independent advisors. Granted, some of the pushes and pull factors, some of the triggers are not necessarily the same, but the idea that advisors outgrow a broker dealer or an RIA or either need or want or desire in some way, shape or form, greater autonomy, flexibility, freedom, control is certainly not limited to the employee space. I just wanted to make that point.

Mindy Diamond:

And I think that’s absolutely right. I think the notion of that frustrations or limitations or bureaucracy only existed if you were a W2 employee at a bulge bracket firm. That went out the window. As the industry landscape has expanded and there’s more and more valid ways to be a financial advisor, there’s more and more ways for a firm or a model or an infrastructure to frustrate an advisor. And that’s not being overly negative. It’s just to say there is no perfection anywhere.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, 100%. And by the way, to play a little bit of devil’s advocate on that, and then we’ll move on, I would just say there are pain points that might come from a firm being small and subscale as well. My firm doesn’t have efficient technology. They don’t invest enough in the business. They don’t provide a lead mechanism. They don’t have a robust banking and lending or investment solutions platform. So this stuff cuts both ways. An advisor can be frustrated or limited and an advisor can be excited. Pushes and pulls I think touch on, we’ve heard from advisors in every single pocket of the market, this is a relevant concept.

Mindy Diamond:

The theme of this is that every advisor deserves to live their best business life. That’s what people are in search of when they reach out to us or when they engage with us. What they’re looking for more than anything, and this is irrespective of where they work or how long they’ve worked or how much they manage, every advisor is in search of their best business life. And what defines their best business life is having the best quality of work life, but also the best ability to do what they want to do with their business, to serve their clients without limitations, to grow the way they want, to be paid a fair wage, and ultimately set up to maximize the value of the business they’ve built. Those are the definitions of one’s best business life.

Jason Diamond:

I used an even simpler definition of best business life and I stole it from you, which is the true north concept, which is if your true north is maximizing enterprise value and chasing the dollar and trying to build something that’s scalable and saleable, then great. If your true north is to build a lifestyle practice, there’s plenty of advisors who are successful and happy and content in that regard as well. And I think that’s what we’re talking about, is finding your true north and then it’s possible. I mean, that’s the beauty of the landscape. We’re talking about this, a lot of this is pain points or things that advisors experience. The exciting part of this is there’s never been a better time to be an advisor because of the breadth of choice they have and the ecosystem that’s been born to support advisors, to your point, across the spectrum.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. And it’s also, I think, worth saying that it starts with really good crystal clear clarity around not only what’s frustrating you, but what you want ideal to look like. Because I can’t tell you, or I can tell you because … I can’t tell our listeners, I can’t stress enough how often we get calls from advisors that tell us where they think they want to be or tell us they want to move. They have clarity about what’s frustrating them or what they want to change, but they don’t really have clarity about what they want it to look like. And the less clarity you have, the less likely you are to be successful in finding the exact right solution. So our work, the thing we probably do best is really work with advisors to help them. It doesn’t take long. In an hour conversation, we can help them to really get crystal clear on what they’re looking to solve for.

Jason Diamond:

Absolutely. All right. Great appetizer. We set the table. Let’s dive into the main course now. I want to talk now about what I’m calling the 2.0 triggers or the new triggers of movement. And to be clear, it’s not that these are more important or better or more significant drivers of movement. In fact, you could argue they’re probably at present less significant than the ones we just listed. But I think what we’re saying is these are triggers that are starting to come up more and more in conversations and we expect them to only proliferate further. And in that regard, they’re noteworthy and important for advisors because advisors should be reconciling not just what are the things I need to be worrying about today, but also what are the things I need to be potentially worrying about five years from now. So with that in mind, let’s dive in.

I think the first one we have to start with is AI. And I always chuckle a tiny bit when we mention AI, we used to have to specify what are we talking about. Are we talking about artificial intelligence or alternative investments? And now it’s very clear. Everybody knows we’re talking about artificial intelligence. So the direction of the industry, no over-dramatization to say is at stake here. It’s that important of a topic. Let me ask you just very simply first, is this coming up in conversations with advisors?

Mindy Diamond:

Oh, all the time, but it’s almost table stakes. So I think the way it comes up is that people assume, advisors assume, and by the way, have the right to assume that AI is part of the tech stack. The notion that if I’m evaluating a firm and part of what frustrates me or part of what’s really important to me is cutting edge, really robust technology, part of what I am expecting is that a new firm is going to have really robust technology. And part of that is really robust access to AI. And has honed the AI in a way that’s user-friendly, that really answers or delivers on making me a better … Not replacing me as an advisor, but making me a better, more efficient advisor.

Jason Diamond:

100%. And I would also add, so as I think about this AI topic, I don’t want this to become a conversation around, is AI going to replace advisors, because I think we both agree that’s not going to be the case. Especially at the top end of the market for quality advisors, I think they’re not going anywhere. But in my view, when we think about the trigger of movement, AI has the potential to be transformative because a couple kind of use cases or trigger cases come to mind, and I’d love to hear your thoughts.

One is, do you think advisors will potentially consider a move because they’re worried about this? So in other words, play this logic out with me. I’m 55 years old and I’m like, “Oh man, AI might be coming from my job.” And there’s firms offering 400% of revenue to move my book. Maybe I should take that check and kind of de-risk and monetize while I can. What are your thoughts on that?

Mindy Diamond:

I absolutely think we’re already working with that fall into that category, but to say that is the only reason for the move would be wrong. I’m grateful that people trust us enough to be transparent with us. So they let us know that underneath the notion that they want to better serve clients, they ultimately want better access to A, B, and C, they want to be able to do D, E and F with less restriction, is really the main reason for the move. But underneath it, the notion that my book, I want to protect myself. My book may well be the biggest it’s ever going to be. It is going to be worth more today than it could be in the future if things don’t go my way. And if I know I’m going to move and one of my goals is to monetize, I might want to do that now.

Jason Diamond:

I agree. And that’s where the top deal story comes in also. Firms paying a top deal is a part of that story. It’s what you just said, plus advisors know firms are willing to pay incredible multiples. I mean, as we speak, UBS is in market with one of the largest deals in history. So those two narratives side by side, I agree. I think this becomes more of a kind of catalyst or driver movement. It’s come up in my conversations on both sides of the spectrum. It’s the tech savvy, AI savvy advisors who are excited about this, who are like, “I want to be the most AI enabled version of myself I can be. It’s going to make me a rockstar and it’s going to widen the gap with my peers,” but it’s also come up with the people who are, I think, rightly scared and fearful about what this might mean for their job.

Mindy Diamond:

Let me ask you, what are examples of the way you’ve seen some of the best firms who have embraced AI? What is their narrative? What is it that they’re saying to advisors that if you come here from a tech or AI perspective, you’ll be better because we’re able to do … Fill in the blank.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah. So a couple that come up. First of all, I want to make the important point. Advisors do not expect that firms, either their current firm or firms that they are diligencing prospectively, have this figured out or solved. Everybody understands this is a fairly new area that firms are still very much kind of developing their strategies in. What advisors want to see is a few things. They want to see though leadership, they want to see investment, and they want to see a strategy, right? Effectively, they want to see a step in the right direction, really. So I’ll give you a couple examples. There are a number of tech savvy RIAs, very tech-enabled, AI-focused RIAs, because I think this is easier to be nimble. I think where you’ll see this quicker probably is in the independent space.

That what they’re doing is things like this. An advisor logs on to their workstation in the morning and their system queues them proactively, Mr. and Mrs. Smith may be good candidates for a Roth IRA conversion. And then if the advisor decides to contact the client in some way about it, the system will of course help them draft the communication, but then it’ll take it a step further and actually help them to process and transact that conversion. So soup to nuts, ultimately driving efficiency. That’s the name of the game. That’s why firms, I think, are excited about AI, at least the good firms. Because what I think they realize it will do is, the stuff that’s a waste of time that could be automated that advisors, and probably even more so their associates, client associates are spending time on, that should be a massive time saver for advisors. And I think if you play that story out, what does that mean? It should mean bigger books of business and therefore more productive advisors because they have more time to prospect and focus on their clients. Thoughts?

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. So I think you said it perfectly, but it raises the question then. You say that the RIAs can be more nimble. You’re right. I mean, the big story around the biggest firms was like moving a battleship, it takes a long time to turn it. It’s not as nimble. So what and how are the bigger firms competing against the RIAs with respect to AI? And second question, we still always get questions, and rightly so, about Morgan Stanley has more money to invest…

Jason Diamond:

That was going to be part of my answer.

Mindy Diamond:

… than fill in the blank RIA. So how does that all work?

Jason Diamond:

That is absolutely going to be part of my answer, is that I have heard this question posed almost presumptively both ways. “Oh, it’s got to be that the RIAs are going to be the clear winners in this.” And I’ve also heard, “Oh, it’s got to be that the wirehouses are going to be the clear winners in this.” I don’t think it’s going to be channel specific like that. I think it is going to be firm specific. I think there’s going to be firms that are going to do this well and firms that are going to not do this well.

But there’s going to be winners in the wirehouse space. There’s going to be winners in the regional firm space, with firms like Raymond James who are clearly trying to be on the cutting edge of this. There’s certainly going to be winners in the broker-dealer space. LPL is investing heavily in this, as are many of their broker-dealer competitors. And then of course the RIA space, where sometimes they may not have the budgets, but they have a couple things. They have private equity backing, sometimes. They have the custodians that they’re built on, right, or the tech vendors that they’re built on. So Schwab and Fidelity or Orion and Addepar. They have other ways to access these innovations.

One of the things that comes up with this that your question I think gets at is, a similar question that was raised around technology stacks, which is strength of offering versus integration. And that’s where I think a firm like Morgan Stanley really will shine, is they should … Because they don’t put anything out that’s not well integrated. The big firms have generally done a pretty good job of that. Versus the RIAs. Sometimes we’ve heard feedback where, yes, you have access to you name it, right? You dream it up, you can go and buy it. But the left hand may not speak to the right hand quite as well.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah, that’s actually a really good point. And integration is probably one of the biggest … If you ask an advisor when they talk about technology as either being one of their pushes or pulls, probably what they’re referring to more than anything is not only having the capability, but having the integrated capability. So that’s a great point. And I think your point is right, that the final chapter on this has not been written. Nobody thinks that it has. And so whatever answers you and I can talk about today about who’s winning this race, or this tech race or this AI race, will be totally different tomorrow. We all know that. But I think for purposes of this conversation, to say that an advisor having an expectation that their technology be outstanding and that AI be on the table, that a firm is embracing it and heading in the right direction, if you will, has the right thought leadership and the right willingness to invest in it is what advisors are really looking for right now.

Jason Diamond:

Absolutely. And this is a question too from the firm’s perspective, if you are a firm of any size, you must be able to answer that. This has become question 1A. And again, I don’t mean to suggest that I think AI is the number one most important factor driving advisor movement today. It very well might be at some point down the road. I don’t think we’re there yet. But I do think it’s the topic du jour or the hot topic, where every advisor is asking about this. So that means if you’re a firm, you need to be prepared to tell the story or at least have the vision.

And I think what we’re hearing from both advisors and from firms is this, AI is going to … What is right now a gap between the good and the bad, the quality and the non, is going to become an absolute chasm, right? An absolutely mountainous gap between the best firms and the firms who are able to adapt this technology or this AI. And the same thing at the advisor level, between the AI-enabled superpowered advisor versus those who are in the dinosaur ages, for lack of a better term.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. And we’ll move on, but it is worth saying that the day of the standalone independent, the one man or one woman band who hangs out a shingle, and to use your term, running a lifestyle practice, nothing wrong with that, but it would be near impossible to imagine a world where a standalone independent can compete with a private-equity-backed RIA or an RIA that has a big pool of capital behind them or to compete with the major firms. And our point is the ability to compete is probably more important with respect to this topic than just about any other.

Jason Diamond:

Totally agree. Thank you for tying a bow on that because I think that’s a good place to leave the AI topic, at least for now. I’m certain we’ll have more to say on this one. By the time we release this episode, we’ll probably have more to say on it. So we’ll have to do a follow-up again. But I want to talk now about enterprise value. And this is one where if you’re an RIA or if you’re an advisor at an independent firm, this might sound like a duh, but hear me out on this one. The idea is as follows, if I’m a wirehouse advisor or any sort of captive advisor, I don’t technically own anything. Agree?

Mindy Diamond:

Agreed.

Jason Diamond:

Okay. So if that’s true, that I don’t technically own anything, I technically don’t have any sort of enterprise value or ability to monetize. But my premise here and why I would argue that enterprise value has become a driver of movement is even wirehouse advisors know … They see teams like OpenArc, a massive RIA that launched last year. They see their corner office peers breaking away, starting independent firms. They see them selling to asset managers, private-equity-backed RIAs, private equity firms in their own right for these massive multiples. And what I guess I’m getting at, and I’m curious if you agree is, if a wirehouse advisor, let’s say, sees their colleagues sell to a private equity firm for 20X, doesn’t that have to become a little bit of a catalyst for movement in its own right?

Mindy Diamond:

Without a doubt. Historically … Actually, let me date myself. When I started this business now 32 years ago, there was zero way for an advisor who was a captive employee of a firm, of any firm, to monetize their business. It’s why there was so much movement, because the only way they could monetize was to get paid a big fat transition deal to move from one firm to the other.

Jason Diamond:

Yep.

Mindy Diamond:

Obviously, we all know that first it started with the big firms, and then just about every brokerage firm on the street began to offer a retire-in-place program. And that is the big firms or a traditional brokerage firm’s way of allowing advisor to monetize in place from their perspective to stave off attrition. And for an advisor that believes that the status quo serves them well, that finishing their career, that leaving their legacy, that leaving their team at their firm is the best thing to do, then those retire-in-place programs, like Merrill’s CTP or Morgan’s FAP or UBS’s Alpha or a name at every firm has them, is the best gift to advisors there is.

But the problem is that the next generation at those firms are buying an asset they don’t own. And so when we talk about enterprise value or the desire to build enterprise value as a real driver of movement, what we’re talking about is not only that advisors want ownership of an asset, because ownership translates into more control and autonomy and agency over building it the way you want to, but it also translates into maximizing the value of the business that you’ve built. So that’s a long-winded way of saying that the OpenArc deal you are referencing, for anybody not familiar, is a Merrill Lynch team, a legacy Merrill Lynch team in Atlanta that was managing more than 120 billion in assets, part retail, ultra high net worth client assets, and part institutional consulting assets. And believe me, I don’t want to make it sound like it was a snap that one day they’re happy and the next day they’re going independent. Over a 10-year period became more and more aware, driven by the pushes and more aware of the pulse.

But ultimately, while there was a long list of things they wanted to be able to do that they couldn’t to best serve clients and grow the business, the real driver at the end of the day, or I shouldn’t say the real driver, but a major driver was the notion of building and owning enterprise value. Yes, they could have all gotten very attractive deals and retired with your Merrill CTP, but they wanted to own the business, they wanted cap gains treatment. And so they went through the sweat equity big time of building what they’re calling OpenArc for the ability for probably five, 10, 20 years, because there’s partners with all different ages, so at all different times, to be able to really maximize the value of the business they’ve built.

Jason Diamond:

Can I push back on that for … It’s a super helpful example, but my one thought is, okay, yeah, of course, 130 billion in assets, they should be concerned with enterprise value at that size. And the delta between caring about enterprise value and not is too great because those guys have, by all accounts, a phenomenal business that is rivaled by very few in the industry. Most of our audience does not fit into that stratosphere. So what about advisors in, let’s call it the million to $10 million space? Should they still care about this concept?

Mindy Diamond:

Again, it’s an inside job. It’s a personal thing. Some don’t. But the answer is yes. And if I were them, I would. Why? Because whether I am generating a million a year in revenue or $10 million a year in revenue, at the end of the day, I’ve got an asset. I’ve built a valuable asset. And I have the choice at the end of the day or the middle of the day to decide a million things about that asset. How do I want to live my business life? How do I want to serve my clients? Where do I want to work? But one of the biggest factors to determining where and how they want to work is, ultimately, do I want to be able to maximize the value of the business that I’ve built? And while there are few things that are really definitive in this industry, the one thing that is absolutely indisputably definitive is that if you build an independent practice like the ex-Merrill Lynch churned RIA OpenArc team did, you will ultimately build enterprise value exponential multiples greater than any way you could monetize the business as a traditional employee.

Jason Diamond:

And that math absolutely still holds up even at numbers smaller than we’ve mentioned. I totally agree with that.

I’ll give you one other reason why I think you should care. And I’d love your thoughts on this one. I’ll ask it two ways maybe. I’ll tell you my take and then I’ll ask you yours. Morgan Stanley, let’s use as an example. Who are Morgan Stanley’s competitors? In my opinion, the legacy answer to that is, well, of course the wirehouses are Morgan Stanley’s competitors. Merrill, UBS, Wells Fargo, what maybe used to be a longer list, but today those four. I don’t think that’s the answer anymore. I think those are the direct competitors. But because of this enterprise value conversation, I think Morgan Stanley’s competitors are anyone and everyone who recruits financial advisors with books of business.

Because if you think about it, an advisor who has a $3 million business at a wirehouse, even if they’re not actually going to do this, they don’t have any entrepreneurial spirit, no desire to go independent, they still know that they could. This is an option and a viable option. And firms are even figuring out ways to cut out the middle step, right? Because this was historically a two-step process. You’re a wirehouse advisor or a W2 advisor. You break away, launch an independent business to establish your enterprise value, begin building it, and then you monetize it. If you could cut out the middle step, or even if you couldn’t, I still think it’s pretty clear that if you’re an advisor, this is important because the firms know … Like when Morgan Stanley’s writing a recruiting deal, they’re kept honest by RIAs and acquirers just the same as their direct peer set. Do you agree with that or do you think I’m reading too far into this?

Mindy Diamond:

Oh no, I agree a thousand percent. I think that it is naive for anyone recruiting for or on behalf of a traditional firm to think that the only competition is another traditional firm. The days of pomposity for a senior leader at a traditional firm to say, “We’ve got the best technology, the best everything fill in the blank. We have no competitors.” That’s just naive. Because even if it’s true, you’ve got the best platform infrastructure fill in the blank, there is a multitude of advisors that value things different than what you can provide. Beauty is in the eye of beholder is probably a good way to say that.

But at the end of the day, what we’re really talking about is when I started the business, because there was no way, no really good way for an advisor to really monetize their life’s work, the only thing they could or were focused on from a personal financial gain perspective was the short-term deal. What are they paying? What’s the transition deal? Now, of course they’re concerned about that. But almost to a person, they’re equally concerned about what I can build and what will this allow me to build in terms of the value of the business I’m building in the long term.

So let me ask you, if we’re talking about an advisor that has the ability to monetize in the short term for what could be 4X and in some cases more than that these days, and we’re talking about the ability to maximize enterprise value, and we talk about the concept of moving once and monetizing twice, what kind of numbers are we talking about? Fill in the blanks there.

Jason Diamond:

It’s such a hard question to answer because I do genuinely believe recruiting deals, when you talk about 300 to 400% revenue deals in the recruiting space, they vary a little bit, but I feel pretty comfortable quoting those types of numbers that most firms are somewhere in the 300 to 400% of T12 realm. There are some outliers, we mentioned UBS. But the multiple or EBITDA based or enterprise value M&A market where we’re doing these legitimate buyout transactions, the valuations do vary quite a bit.

But here’s how I think about it. First of all, most firms are not purchased or sold at top line revenue. Most are sold at some sort of adjusted EBITDA number, which factors in local expenses, platform expenses, but also advisor compensation. And then that adjusted number is typically multipled. The multiples are anywhere from 8X for small kind of, let’s say, million dollar revenue businesses up to, we’ve seen deals struck at north of 20X for some of these mega cap RIAs. Typically, just back of the envelope, if I had to quote, I typically estimate around 5X top line at capital gains is a good kind of ballpark valuation. But there is quite a bit of nuance to it, more so than the traditional recruiting space.

And I do think, shameless plug, part of the value in working with somebody who’s an expert on the entirety of the industry landscape is just that. It’s the idea that you need to run the horse race across multiple verticals. The good advisors who work with us typically are looking at a wire like a Morgan Stanley or a Merrill. They’re looking at a boutique firm like a Rockefeller, or they’re looking at a regional like an RBC or a Ray J. They’re looking at an independent firm like an LPL or a Sanctuary. They’re looking all across the spectrum.

Mindy Diamond:

I think that’s exactly right. But the topic of enterprise value, you can see how powerful it is and how wise it is. For an advisor today, when considering their personal economics to consider not just the short term, but to weigh in or add in or factor in, what could I be building and what ultimately will that business be worth at the end of the day?

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, 100%. Short of going out and selling your business, what can advisors do then? So I’m an advisor, okay, I’m curious about this. Or is it just as simple as, “Yeah, you should know what your business is worth if you’re an advisor”?

Mindy Diamond:

Definitively yes, because I mean, we always believe that knowledge is power. And just like it’s important for you to understand what your options are within your own firm, how can I ultimately retire out and monetize my business where I am, I think it’s really hard to make a decision in a vacuum without having other perspective. And getting other perspective doesn’t have to be that you have to go out and take 20 meetings. It’s not that hard for you to figure out what your business is worth to make it a data point for whether or not you’re ultimately best to retire in place or go elsewhere.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, that I think is the main takeaway. And the education point is so important. I think because these are relatively new concepts for a lot of advisors that haven’t formally shopped a business before, there’s a lot of resources available. And we’ll certainly link some as well on the page for the episode.

Let’s shift gears now, our kind of final trigger 2.0, which is stability and ownership structure of the firm. And this has been a little bit of a hot topic. It’s honestly been a hot topic every year because it seems like things pop up every year. And a lot of times advisors don’t reconcile the question of who owns the firm or how stable is the firm until something happens. The firm gets bought, the firm goes bankrupt, like the First Republic scenario. What should a good advisor do proactively about the idea that if you’re a W2 employee or even an employee who’s affiliated with a broker dealer, you saw this with Commonwealth, you just don’t really have control over what the firm decides to do.

Give me your thoughts on this. I know it’s a big topic.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. First of all, using Commonwealth an example, it’s a good one. Because for those unfamiliar, Commonwealth is a boutique broker dealer that was privately owned and whose tagline was, “We love our privately owned status and we are never going to sell,” until one day they did. And not only did they sell, but they sold to the biggest independent broker dealer in the country, ala LPL. That’s not good nor bad, it’s just a fact. So if Commonwealth, who had definitively said we’re never up for sale, suddenly sells, any time you’re an employee of a firm, you never know what tomorrow brings in. You’re not in control over whether it’s sold. So that’s one example.

But as you’re talking about this, I’m thinking about, I’m probably going back 20 years, so I’m 10 years into my career and I talked to someone who had been a very successful Merrill advisor. So I’m going to say he was probably generating around $5 million in revenue at the time. Going back 20 years, that’s a pretty significant book of business. He was courted for years by what he thought was a top RIA. And in those days, remember 20 years ago, the RIA space wasn’t nearly as mainstream as it is now. But the story the RIA told him was that ultimately, one, he was going to be a partner in the firm, that was very appealing to him. So he was going to have equity in the firm and much more freedom and control. And locally, by the way, the RIA was a really high quality brand.

He worked on a lot of the economics, the short term and the long term with them. They did a ton of due diligence on his book of business. But he failed to ask … And I didn’t represent him. I just know this story. He failed to ask or do enough due diligence about the stability of the firm. What we think is really important, we talk about this expanded landscape. If you’re looking at Morgan Stanley, I don’t think you necessarily need to see Morgan Stanley’s balance sheet. If you are talking to a firm that is anything but a bulge bracket or anything but a large firm, it’s really important to do what we call reverse due diligence and to really understand if a firm expects you to open your kimono and show everything about your business to prove your worth, it is equally important that you do the same for them.

In this new world order where private equity has come in and there are so many different ways for a firm to be owned and to be capitalized, it’s very important that an advisor understand what’s going on behind the scenes. And one of the questions around stability, if a firm is private equity backed, is it permanent capital? Is it patient capital? Is the private equity firm going to look to sell and monetize in five years? And then who would the likely buyer be and what does that mean for you? So the question is a big question and it’s really important.

Jason Diamond:

I love everything you just said, except I do think even the wirehouses, wirehouse advisors, honestly, as much as anybody should be asking these questions. And I’ll give you an example right now, UBS. And UBS, it’s not a story of balance sheet stability. I don’t think anybody has concerns that UBS is going to fail. But UBS management has been very publicly, “Oh, we’re cutting costs.” There’s been some rumors, I think for years, probably dating back 30 years to when you started the business about UBS’s commitment to the US wealth management business. I think those questions about stability and ownership structure are still valid.

And to me, the implication of it is twofold. One, what you said, reverse due diligence, ask the questions, plan B. But also the concept of the exits or the off-ramps or how many bites of the apple do you get. So if you’re an advisor and you sell your business to somebody and you sign garden leave and non-competes and non-solicits, the question of ownership structure of that firm becomes less relevant because you have no off-ramps and no ability to exit that business anyway. A lot of times that’s how advisors get comfortable with this concept. And that’s what firms will tell them too, frankly, and we’re living through the middle of this, by the way, with Commonwealth and LPL, is vote with your feet, right? To the extent advisors can, the offer … And this is like, you used the example of private-equity-backed firms. This is how Rockefeller addresses the question of their private equity ownership. If we sell to UBS, all of our advisors will leave. They have that built-in put option.

So knowing where the off-ramps are or how many bites of the apple an advisor gets, I think is a big concept that ties into that. But we’re absolutely seeing this pop up, probably largely because of those two examples, Commonwealth and UBS this year, more so Commonwealth, to your point. Janney’s another example last year or two years ago now where KKR comes in and buys Janney. So when these examples happen, it seems like it triggers advisors to say, “Is this something that could happen to me and should I be thinking about this?”

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. So let me ask you a question. You’re talking, you’ve mentioned UBS offering this outsized deal. So how does the notion of stability and ownership factor in? If an advisor is considering an unprecedented deal from UBS, what are the caveats or concerns with respect to stability and ownership?

Jason Diamond:

It’s the same list of considerations you should and would ask of any other firm you’re diligencing, except I think amplified even more in the case … If I was counseling an advisor who was looking at UBS, that would be what I would say, is exactly that. You’re seeing all of these departures and defections, and I would want to have conversations with those advisors and understand exactly why and have guarantees or assurances that I’m not going to suffer from those same pain points that force them to leave. Or, and I say this a little bit flippantly, but it’s a little bit true, I understand the devil that I’m getting into bed with, but for 550%, or whatever the deal might be, I can suck it up. And that’s something that some advisors might well say as well.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah.

Jason Diamond:

I don’t want to end on the negative note of overly large transition, not there’s anything wrong with large transition deals, but as you look out, is there anything that’s coming up in your conversation with advisors that you view as the next wave of this? I’ll give you one that maybe you could touch on, and if you have another one, feel free to offer it in conclusion, but do you think age or advisors starting to succeed out of the business will become more of a driver of movement, even though to your point, advisors can access sunset deals?

Mindy Diamond:

I do actually, because I think the more the average advisor age increases, the more likely that those advisors are going to want to move on to do something else to monetize the business. And so much of the wave of movement we see is driven not so much by the senior advisor, because many seed advisors are happy enough with the ability to monetize their business in place. Even though it may not maximize the value of the business, it’s a close enough approximation and it means I don’t have to disrupt the apple cart. So we support that 100%. But where we get the calls is from the next generation that says, “Yeah, but hold on a minute. It’s a good way for me to take on a book of assets that I not otherwise have access to. And it’s great for my senior partner, my father, my mother, my whatever to monetize the business. But I’m buying an asset again that I don’t own and I ultimately don’t have control over all these things we’re talking about, the AI investment, the ability to create enterprise value, the stability, the cost cutting, all of it.”

So I think it’s all of the above. You say, “What else is there?” I think that’s it. It’s all of the above. It’s anything and everything that drives movement. One, it’s personal, it’s highly unique, it’s different for every advisor. There are certainly themes, and we’re talking about them, but there’s a million different things. It’s personal. And while there are an awful lot of pushes, things that can frustrate an advisor, it is the most exciting time in our view to be an advisor, particularly a high quality one, because the options abound, the ecosystem is big, because the ability to monetize both in the short term and the long term is big, mammoth, exponentially bigger than it ever was before. And the true ability to really build an enterprise has never been greater. And I think all of those things, the desire for an advisor to be the best that they can be and live their best business life is probably the biggest driver of all.

Jason Diamond:

It’s really true these days, if you can dream it, you can probably build it. And we’ve said in the past, if you build it, they will buy it. It’s a great place to end. This was a really fun topic. I think that’s a spot on kind of fourth trigger, by the way, too. This sort of next gen is almost like the force multiplier or the amplifier of like they see all this other stuff and they’re asking these questions even more so. Because if I’m 60 years old, none of this matters all that much. It matters, but I’m out of the business in five to 10 years. Versus the next gen advisors are the ones who often bear the brunt of this. So I think a lot of really smart stuff. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and expertise.

In the episode page, we’ll be sure we have our Industry Transition Report. And we’ve also created a tool, the top 10 tips for a strategic due diligence process, which is a great kind of practical hand-in-hand companion for this topic for advisors looking for more pointed tips on the due diligence process.

So Mindy, thank you again. This has been a blast.

Mindy Diamond:

My pleasure. Thank you.

Jason Diamond:

Thank you for joining us. We’ll be back with a new episode next week, so be sure to listen in.

Mindy Diamond:

As a financial advisor, you hold yourself to the highest standards of integrity, honesty, and credibility. You are successful because you take your professional responsibility seriously and are dedicated to your clients. But are you living your best business life? Are your goals aligned with your firms or could a better option exist? Should I Stay or Should I Go? is a book written with you in mind. It’s a self-guided journey that walks you through the key steps that we take with our advisor clients. This strategic thought process and roadmap to professional self-discovery is designed to help you ask the right questions and think critically and objectively, whether you’re considering change or not. Learn how to get your copy at diamond-consultants.com/thebook.

View Details

Jason Fertitta – CEO & Partner, Americana PartnersJason Fertitta shares how Americana Partners grew from a $2.6B breakaway team to a $13B+ enterprise by focusing on ownership, enterprise value, strategic acquisitions, and long-term growth.In SummaryMany advisors view independence as the ultimate objective: a chance to gain control, improve economics, and build a business on their own terms.

For Jason Fertitta, independence was only the beginning.

Louis Diamond speaks with the CEO and Founding Partner of Americana Partners about the firm’s evolution from a $2.6 billion breakaway team in 2019 to a national enterprise managing more than $13 billion today. The conversation explores the decisions that fueled that growth, the mindset required to build long-term enterprise value, and why Jason believes advisors should evaluate success through the lens of net worth rather than annual income.

Along the way, they discuss recruiting, acquisitions, private equity, professional management, and the tradeoffs that come with building something intended to outlast its founders.

The StorylineThe independent channel has matured.

A decade ago, many advisors pursued independence primarily for greater autonomy, higher payouts, and control over the client experience. Today, a growing number are approaching the decision differently—viewing independence as a platform for building enterprise value, attracting capital, completing acquisitions, and creating businesses that can scale beyond the founders themselves.

Jason Fertitta’s journey reflects that evolution.

When he and his partners left Morgan Stanley in 2019, Americana launched with approximately $2.6B in client assets and a vision to build a nationally recognized wealth management firm. Seven years later, the firm oversees more than $13B, employs roughly 100 people, operates across multiple markets, has completed several acquisitions, and brought on Lovell Minnick Partners as its first institutional investor.

Throughout the conversation, Jason offers a transparent look at the realities of enterprise building. That includes reinvesting profits rather than maximizing income, hiring professional management long before it feels necessary, embracing acquisitions as a growth strategy, and making decisions based on long-term value creation rather than short-term economics.

For advisors considering what comes after independence, the episode provides a practical framework for thinking about ownership, scale, capital, and the future value of their business.

About the Build, Grow & Transact Series for AdvisorsBuild, Grow & Transact explores what happens after independence.

The series features advisors and firm leaders who viewed independence not as a destination, but as the foundation for building something larger. Some launched firms from scratch. Others scaled through recruiting, acquisitions, or strategic partnerships. Many eventually faced decisions around capital, ownership, succession, or liquidity.

While every story is different, they share a common thread: a willingness to think beyond the transition itself and focus on creating long-term enterprise value.

Through candid conversations with founders, builders, and industry leaders, the series examines the decisions, tradeoffs, and lessons that come with growing an advisory business into an enduring enterprise.

For advisors contemplating independence, actively building a firm, or considering what comes next, Build, Grow & Transact offers a look at the paths others have taken—and what they’ve learned along the way.

> Download a transcript of this episode…

Listen and Learn Highlights for AdvisorsWhy did Americana grow from $2.6 billion to more than $13 billion? (06:16)Jason explains how a combination of organic growth, advisor recruiting, acquisitions, and long-term strategic planning helped accelerate the firm’s expansion.

Why do clients often do more business with independent advisors? (12:17)Jason shares his perspective on why clients frequently deepen relationships after an advisor leaves a wirehouse environment.

What role have alternatives played in Americana’s growth strategy? (14:40)The discussion explores how differentiated investment access can help advisors stand apart in an increasingly commoditized marketplace.

When is it time to build a professional management team? (18:36)Jason explains why Americana invested heavily in leadership, operations, and infrastructure from the very beginning.

Why did Americana bring in private equity capital? (25:16)A candid discussion about growth capital, M&A opportunities, and the decision to partner with Lovell Minnick Partners.

How do you evaluate enterprise value versus annual income? (20:16)Jason offers one of the episode’s most important lessons: building wealth through ownership can look very different than maximizing current compensation.

What makes a successful acquisition target? (39:51)Jason outlines how Americana evaluates M&A opportunities and how acquisitions fit into the broader client experience.

Is it better to build your own firm or join an existing platform? (45:40)The conversation closes with Jason’s perspective on the trade-offs between launching independently and joining a scaled independent enterprise.

Topics Covered* Enterprise value creation * Independence and ownership * Organic growth strategies * Advisor recruiting * RIA acquisitions * Private equity partnerships * Professional management teams * Alternative investments * Family office services * Building a national wealth management firm

Key Takeaways* Independence can be a starting point for building an enterprise rather than the final objective. * Long-term wealth creation often stems from ownership and equity appreciation, not from maximizing annual income. * Reinvesting profits into leadership, infrastructure, and talent can accelerate enterprise value. * Organic growth and acquisitions can complement one another when supported by a clear strategy. * Outside capital can be a growth catalyst when aligned with management’s long-term vision. * The most scalable firms are often built around client needs rather than predefined acquisition targets. * Advisors have more options than ever before, ranging from building independently to joining established platforms.

https://youtu.be/_12jZJFsi4U

Quotable Moments“Even to this day, I don’t make anywhere near the amount of income that I made when I was on Wall Street. But my net worth is up tenfold.”

“If you want to create value for yourself and your partners and grow your balance sheet, you can do it in a much more tax-efficient way in the independent world.”

“I’ve never thought about how much of the company I own. I’ve thought about what my slice is worth.”

“We want to build something our children would be proud to say we helped create.”

FAQs Why are more advisors viewing independence as a business-building opportunity?

The independent channel increasingly offers opportunities to create enterprise value, pursue acquisitions, attract capital, and build scalable businesses beyond a traditional advisory practice.

How can advisors increase the enterprise value of their firms?

Enterprise value is often driven by factors such as growth, profitability, leadership depth, recurring revenue, client demographics, infrastructure, and scalability.

What role does private equity play in wealth management firms?

Private equity can provide capital, strategic guidance, operational expertise, and acquisition support while helping firms accelerate growth initiatives.

How do RIAs use acquisitions to grow?

Many firms use acquisitions to expand geographically, add specialized capabilities, deepen client services, and accelerate asset growth.

Why are professional management teams becoming more common among RIAs?

As firms scale, dedicated leadership across operations, finance, compliance, and business management enables advisors to focus more effectively on clients and growth.

Is launching an independent firm always the best path?

Not necessarily. Some advisors prefer to build their own enterprise, while others may achieve their goals more effectively by joining an established independent platform that already provides scale and infrastructure.

The independent channel increasingly offers opportunities to create enterprise value, pursue acquisitions, attract capital, and build scalable businesses beyond a traditional advisory practice.

Enterprise value is often driven by factors such as growth, profitability, leadership depth, recurring revenue, client demographics, infrastructure, and scalability.

Private equity can provide capital, strategic guidance, operational expertise, and acquisition support while helping firms accelerate growth initiatives.

Many firms use acquisitions to expand geographically, add specialized capabilities, deepen client services, and accelerate asset growth.

As firms scale, dedicated leadership across operations, finance, compliance, and business management enables advisors to focus more effectively on clients and growth.

Not necessarily. Some advisors prefer to build their own enterprise, while others may achieve their goals more effectively by joining an established independent platform that already provides scale and infrastructure.

Related Resources* From Ex-Morgan Stanley Advisor to One of the Biggest Breakaway Stories of 2019 with Jason Fertitta (Podcast Episode) * Intentional Growth: How Top Advisors Build Businesses That Last (Article) * M&A Readiness Assessment (Tool)

Guest BioJason Fertitta

Jason is currently Chief Executive Officer / Founding Partner of Americana Partners. Jason was a Managing Director in Morgan Stanley’s Private Wealth Division for eleven years. He joined Morgan Stanley in 2008 after six years with Lehman Brothers High Net Worth Division. Prior to joining Lehman Brothers, Jason worked six years for Texas Direct. Jason serves on the Board of The Good Samaritan Foundation and Endowment and the Houston Museum of Natural Science. Jason attended St. Edwards University in Austin.

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

View the transcript of this episode…
Build, Grow & Transact: Americana’s $12B Path from Breakaway to Enterprise

A conversation with Louis Diamond and Jason Fertitta, CEO & Partner at Americana Partners.

Louis Diamond:

Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is Build, Grow & Transact: Americana’s $12B Path from Breakaway to Enterprise. It’s a conversation with Jason Fertitta, CEO and partner of Americana Partners. I’m Louis Diamond, and this is the Diamond Podcast for financial advisors.

Mindy Diamond:

At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors, and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned. And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education driven, and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at 908-879-1002. Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual advisor transition report. It’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement, and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport.

Louis Diamond:

Independence is often viewed as the finish line. Break away, gain control, own the business, and enjoy the economics that come with it. But, for some advisors, going independent is just the beginning. That’s the idea behind this new series called Build, Grow, and Transact, featuring advisors who saw independence not as a destination, but as the first chapter of a business building story. And there will be some familiar names along the way, including our first guest who was on our show back in 2020, talking about what was at the time, one of the industry’s breakaway moves. That’s Jason Fertitta, CEO and founding partner of Americana Partners. When Jason and his partners left Morgan Stanley in 2019, they started Americana with approximately 2.6 billion in client assets, and a vision that extended well beyond becoming a successful independent firm. Today, Americana oversees more than 12 billion, has expanded nationally, completed multiple acquisitions, built out a professional management team, and brought on institutional capital to support its next phase of growth.

What makes Jason’s perspective valuable that he’s now experienced independence through several different lenses as a breakaway advisor, as a founder, as a builder of enterprise value, and now as the leader of a firm, actively pursuing acquisitions and recruiting talent from across the industry. We talk about the decisions that fueled Americana’s growth, why Jason has always viewed the business through a long-term lens, what changed when private equity entered the picture, and why maximizing enterprise value often requires a very different mindset than maximizing current income. For advisors who think independence is a destination, Jason’s story offers a look at what can happen when it’s treated as a starting point instead, so let’s get to it. Jason, thanks for coming back on our show today.

Jason Fertitta:

Pleasure to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Louis Diamond:

You got it. Yeah, you’re our first guest in our new subseries, so you should feel honored. And I’m honored too, because the last time we had you on the show, Americana was about a year old, you’re navigating COVID, and all those challenges. But, for listeners who may not remember the episode, can you give us a quick version of the origin story of Americana, and what the firm looked like when you first launched it?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah, I believe if I’m remembering correctly, I was in Colorado talking to you guys, and it was right after we launched, so that was a fun but stressful time. I think at the time that we launched, it was certainly the road less traveled. Most teams go from one wirehouse to another. We had an entrepreneurial itch. There was 11 of us that started the firm. We actually launched the firm from this exact building that we’re in here, but all of this was under construction. We were in temporary space one floor below on card tables, and pizza boxes, and all the things that you can envision when you think of a startup. But, yeah, we weighed all of our options in terms of going from one firm to another, staying where we were, and had a lot of talks with ourselves, and our spouses, and they were all very supportive.

When you do something like this, you’re certainly scratching the entrepreneurial itch that I think is required for somebody that wants to try and build their own company. And I think we’re all satisfying that itch in different ways. We all had a lot of other outside business interests. I’m passionate about the restaurant industry, because it’s what I grew up in as a kid. And so, had opened some restaurants with some chefs that I really admire, and were doing things like that to scratch the itch, but there’s no other way to do it than doing that in your profession.

And so, we decided to launch the firm. We also just felt like Texas being such a wealthy state, there really wasn’t a regionally dominant RIA from here. There’s a lot of big RIAs in the Northeast, and the Northwest, and the West Coast. And we just felt like Texas was ready to hopefully be able to support the concept of launching it from the state, and then expanding it out regionally and nationally from here. Those are all thoughts in our heads and dreams and we’ve worked really hard to get to where we are, but I think we’re in a great spot right now for another leg of growth.

Louis Diamond:

Amazing. I would say that plan has certainly worked out. When you were on our show last in 2019, the firm was at about 2.6 billion at time of launch. And now, I saw in news articles and your ADV, it’s north of 12 billion, but I’m sure it’s even larger now. Can you walk through just what’s the makeup of the firm today? How many partners and advisors? What’s the profile of the end client? What markets are you in, in and around Texas or around the country?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah, so today we’re roughly a hundred employees, right at 13 billion in AUM. I would say we have six offices, Houston, Austin, Dallas, Midland, Beverly Hills, and Nashville. We have about 30 advisors, 30 financial advisors, and our average account size I would say is right around $20 million. That’s not a rule, it’s just the way it is. We have some wonderful accounts that are two or three million, and we have some great accounts that are well over a billion. And in terms of the makeup of the firm, since the time we’ve spoken, and we’ll get into this later, but we have run in private equity, we have about nine families that are owners of the firm with us. It’s really families, private equity, and employees. That’s the cap table currently.

Louis Diamond:

Very cool. As far as building the firm geographically, for the offices of Texas, that makes sense to your earlier comment about wanting to build a Texas dominant or a regionally dominant firm. But, how’d you land in Beverly Hills and Nashville? That’s a little bit different.

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah, it is. I think so much of where we’re going is secondary to who we’re partnering with. I think we would go anywhere in the country if we had the right partner in that city. We’re not necessarily saying we have to be in Atlanta. Let’s find the right partners in Atlanta. It’s more about, we found the right partners in Atlanta, so we’re going to Atlanta. And you meet these people everywhere. Everyone has their own Rolodex inside of our firm. Sometimes it’s an employee here that has a relationship with someone that wants to break away and be part of an independent firm. Sometimes it’s me. There’s a lot of golf DNA in our firm, so we’ve met a ton of people through the incredible game of golf. In fact, last weekend we just hosted our first Americana Cub Golf Tournament where we took over an entire club, and invited 40 strategic invitations to people that could be helpful to our firm.

I would say it’s really just networking, trying to find like-minded advisors that were very big at putting the client at the center of every decision you make. A lot of times you’ll come across of an advisor that financially looks really good on paper, but they’re maybe not always doing what’s right by the client. We run from those situations. We’d rather have a financial advisor that perhaps statistically is inferior to that other one on paper from a P&L perspective, but we feel like it’s doing what’s right by the client in the decisions. And that’s usually the main factor for us in seeking out the right partners.

Louis Diamond:

I love that. And one of the premises of this new subseries of ours is about growing, and then, of course, recognizing that value through some sort of monetization. To me, the star of your show is your insanely impressive growth, which I would assume comes from both organic means, and also from inorganic, whether through M&A, or recruiting teams from your predecessor firms, or from other wirehouses. Can you talk a little bit about the breakdown of the two growth channels, and how you pursue both, organic and then inorganic growth?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah. Well, I think organic growth, the preference for anyone that’s in our sea, because you don’t have to pay for organic growth. It’s just you have to expose your platform to potential clients, and it has to be differentiated enough for them to move assets from another firm to yours. And I would tell you, I think we do a really good job at that. We’ve built an incredible platform that has, and enables a financial advisor to have all the same arrows in the quiver that a big firm has. We’ve got an incredible alts department. We’ve got an incredible CIO that produces great research. We got incredible in-house portfolio managers, both in the core equity space, but then also the municipal bond space. We have an incredible external manager platform that has everything from cash management on steroids, to venture capital investing, to co-investing, to direct investments into companies.

We have this really great platform. We also recognize that we want to grow through M&A as well, because there’s only so much time in the day you’re not willing to add more employees and more like-minded advisors to grow. We do both, to your point, we absolutely do both, and they’re both equally as important. On the M&A side, I would say it’s been responsible for half of our AUM growth over the last seven years, and the other half has been organic. And I think as we get bigger and bigger, that number’s going to not stay consistent. I would say that if we could grow our AUM organically by 10% per year, and then do five to seven acquisitions a year, combination of RIAs and Wall Street lift outs, I think those are good goals for us, and we’re off to a good start in trying to achieve those goals.

Louis Diamond:

I think if you pull off even half of that, I think your private equity sponsors, and investors, and employees would be very happy. Can we double click into the organic growth side? How do you view whether your growth rate changing organically since leaving Morgan to start the RIA? And if it has changed, what do you think are the things that are responsible for the faster growth, or slower growth if it’s slower than when you’re at Morgan?

Jason Fertitta:

One of the interesting secrets about being independent versus inside of a big bank is I think your clients will actually do more business with you if you’re independent. I didn’t realize that until we went independent. I had heard that before, but I was like, that may or may not be true. But, when we went independent, and every time we recruit a team from a big bank, the same thing happens. It’s like the clients are like, “What took you so long?” They’ve very much, for the most part … Now, that’s not every client, but most clients, I think prefer to be serviced by an advisor that’s conflict bringing the independent channel.

There are other clients that might have a big investment banking relationship with a big bank, or something like that, like a business reason for not leaving. But, in terms of just being able to service the client from an independent channel where you’re a legal fiduciary, I think all the interest is aligned from client to service provider, and I just think it’s easier to raise money in this channel than it is at a bank.

Louis Diamond:

And you really think the types of clients you work with or just clients in general, the difference maker is really the conflict-free advice. Obviously, it sounds good, but I would argue that when you were at Morgan Stanley, your team was one of the top teams in the country, you had an amazing reputation, you’re probably giving similar quality advice then than you were today. How has that really manifested itself?

Jason Fertitta:

I always say I think you can have a great experience at a firm that is perhaps not the most prestigious, great firm in the country if you’re with the right team. And I think you can also have a horrible experience at a firm with a great reputation if you’re with the wrong team. It is my belief the most important thing from the customer’s perspective is who you’re working with. I appreciate your comments about our team, and we work very hard to deserve the reputation that you’re talking about. But, I also think that when you’re in the independent world, some of the things the banks do very well is they have great investment platforms, and a lot of due diligence in their products. I think when you’re an independent firm, you’re obviously, you don’t immediately have all of those same intangibles that a big bank has.

I think it was very important for us to invest heavily into those departments inside of our firm to where we could be on some equal footing with Wall Street firms, and we have been. We have raised a lot of money for alternative managers. I think alternatives are a huge secret sauce that an independent advisor needs to have access to, because in a world where the public markets are getting more efficient and more commoditized, it’s very challenging to grow organically the way that we have without some secret sauce. And I think the secret sauce lies within the alternatives, because it’s very hard to differentiate yourself if you’re just trying to optimize someone’s public equity portfolio, and improve where they sit on the efficient frontier. I think that’s just a tough challenge. But, if you can mix in some truly differentiated alternatives where access is a big component of the value proposition, then all of a sudden, you’re bringing your clients something special, and something that’s unique.

Louis Diamond:

I really like that perspective. I think you’re completely right. I’ve always heard people say investments are commoditized, and it’s all about advice and planning, but I think the way you framed it about the ALFA essentially being worked out of it, so it’s the access, and it’s what you’re doing different on the investment side outside of the more basic or commoditized stuff that’s a difference maker. When you launched the firm, and I believe still today, Americana hired Dynasty Financial Partners as your infrastructure partner. Now that you’re significantly larger, you’re seven years into your independent journey, how does the relationship with Dynasty change, if at all? What do they do for you that you benefit from differently today than when you first launched?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah, it would’ve been impossible for us to do what we did without Dynasty’s help. Dynasty has delivered for us in a meaningful way and they continue to. They’re a great partner. We definitely are developing our own sea legs as well, just because you have to just by virtue of the size that you get to. But, Dynasty, I think, has been incredibly innovative in terms of launching an investment bank and bringing … Dynasty’s brought us deals, which is incredible. Just in addition to being an infrastructure partner, they’ve actually provided us deal flow.

They’re also, because they’re working with so many firms, you get in all sorts of situations as an independent firm, and to have someone to pick up the phone and say, “Here’s what we’re dealing with.” And they’ll say, “Oh, here are the three things you need to do. You either need to do it like this or this.” Just a lot of experience within Dynasty. I don’t know if we’re Dynasty’s biggest client or not, but I would say we’re certainly in their top three. We are looking to continue that relationship, and always having a relationship with Dynasty, but I would describe it as evolving, because our revenue is up 6X in the last six years.

Louis Diamond:

Amazing. That makes complete sense. The needs of the business when you are leaving a big firm is got to get the clients over, got to build the plane before it can fly, and understand how to do X, Y, and Z, to now, it’s enterprise building, and optimizing, and growing inorganically, so that makes complete sense, and very cool to hear that Dynasty has evolved or morphed the relationship to meet you where you are now. And to me, I think a big part of that is hiring professional management. That’s always a question we get. When am I big enough? When’s the right time to hire professional management, whether it’s a full-time CEO, a CFO, a COO, et cetera. I know in your case, fairly early on you hired Ron Thacker who was a regional manager from Morgan Stanley. I saw recently you hired a CFO, so you’re really professionalizing the leadership ranks. When did you know it was the right time to build a professional management team, and how did you think about that evolution?

Jason Fertitta:

We knew from day one that’s what we wanted to do. I think when you go independent, there’s a couple of different schools of thought. One school of thought is I can go independent. I’m not going to really have a boss. I’ll be my own boss. I may or may not grow the business. I’m going to run it in a way that’s lean. I might be able to have a little bit more of a take home because there’s not a third hand in the cookie jar in terms of the bank, and it’s a great lifestyle. I think that’s one school of thought and I think that’s great. That was not our school of thought. Our school of thought is we had a belief that in this country, there’s going to emerge five to 10 regionally dominant RIAs, and these regionally dominant RIAs were going to enjoy economies of scale, and they were going to compete with Wall Street.

And in order to do that, we had to reinvest a lot of our profit into our business through building this management team that you’re referencing. Even to this day, I don’t make anywhere near the amount of income that I made when I was on Wall Street, but I’m not, and it’s because we’re building equity value, and we’re building something that will last, and we reinvest a lot of our cash flow into professionalizing the management team, and then being able to deliver on that promise to the financial advisors that are here that you’re going to have a platform, that when you walk in the room, you’re going to be able to compete with Wall Street. And so, that’s always been our goal, which is not necessarily everybody’s goal when they go independent, because it’s a lifestyle decision really. I work way harder today than I worked when I was at a Wall Street firm.

Louis Diamond:

It’s so interesting. Two threads I want to tug on from what you said. The first one is I think just the comment you made that you’re making less today when the business is significantly larger than it was when you’re at Morgan Stanley, you’re working harder. I think even that dynamic is going to feel like a shock to a lot of people, right? If you’re working harder, the business is doing six times more revenue than it was at Morgan Stanley, that doesn’t seem like a fair trade. How do you think about that relative to the equity value that you’re amassing? Was that always the plan, or is that just something you’ve leaned into as the firm has grown and scaled?

Jason Fertitta:

Well, the third component you left out is my net worth is up 10X-

Louis Diamond:

There you go.

Jason Fertitta:

… whereas if I would’ve stayed at a Wall Street firm, and so are all the employees here. If it’s about that, I can tell you that we checked that box. Americana is very valuable, and we’re happy about that. It’s really just about how you want to create that, right? If you want to create it through income, and pay a lot of taxes along the way, stay at the Wall Street firm. But, if you want to create value for yourself and your partners, and grow your balance sheet, you can do it in a much more tax efficient way in the independent world. And I’m light years ahead of where I would’ve been if I would’ve stayed at a Wall Street firm.

Louis Diamond:

I think that’s the coolest realization I think someone can have, right? We always say it’s like, what do you value more? Is it the short-term liquidity, or certainty of getting a big upfront recruiting deal at ordinary income, or staying where you are and keep making your 50% payout, take advantage of your firm’s retire in place program? And for many people, that’s what they value. But, for you, I think you very clearly and transparently articulated that, yeah, I might make less, but what really matters is my net worth. It’s how much I’m actually netting for my family in the long run. For people who want to play the long game, really buy into that concept, it sounds like following your path would be ideal, but it may not be for everyone.

Jason Fertitta:

It’s a much better path, and I’m living proof of it, and not only am I living proof of it, all of my partners are here, and everybody that owns equity in Americana is living proof of it.

Louis Diamond:

Amazing. You said you’re working more now than when you’re at Morgan. How has your day-to-day, or day in the life changed? What types of activities are you doing more or less of, and how do you balance everything?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah, it’s hard to balance everything, it is. But, I would say that one of the unique things about Americana is the founders are all financial advisors. We aren’t consultants that came out of the consulting world, we’re financial advisors. I’m still a financial advisor. I still cover clients. I would say a third of my time is actually covering the house accounts here with some of my original partners. A third of my time is firm related stuff, and then, a third of my time is M&A, and that’s not only M&A, but helping the advisors that are here grow their business also. And so, I come across a lot of leads and opportunities. I’m not really taking them for the house account book or myself. I’m finding the right advisors that I feel I could service the clients the best, and then I’m flipping them to them and sitting second chair and I’ve seen some amazing growth to their businesses by just being able to send them leads.

Louis Diamond:

Yeah. I think that’s always like the tug of war for … I think most founders of RIAs in this industry, they were advisors themselves. They were the rainmakers, or they still are, but there’s definitely some folks who, whether because of lack of time, or lose the spark or passion for working with clients, that they pivot to being full-time CEO, or we’ve even seen people go the other way where they say, “I was the CEO. I really just want to be an advisor, or just do M&A, and I’m going to hire a CEO.” It’s really cool to hear how you split up your time, and you’re able to do it all. And I’m sure it’s not perfect. I’m sure your family wishes they saw you more, and et cetera, but it sounds like you’re able to really pursue your different passions.

Jason Fertitta:

All those three activities are very fun, and they keep everyday interesting, and you don’t necessarily know at what points in the day you’re going to be working on which bucket, and there’s a lot of blend and overlap, but we spend a lot of time here working on behalf of our clients, and the firm, and every day is an adventure, but it’s fun. It’s a blast.

Louis Diamond:

Absolutely. Well, let’s spend some time talking about your fairly recent capital raise. In October of 2024, Americana announced that PE firm Lovell Minnick Partners, the firm’s first outside institutional investor was coming in to take a majority stake in the firm. Can you take us back to that decision? I’m sure it’s still clearly vivid. Maybe talk through it, and when did you first start to think seriously about bringing in capital?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah, so probably at the end of ’23, we looked down, and there was $100 million worth of potential M&A that was fairly actionable that we could do. And the other M&A events we did were small deals, 10, $20 million sometimes, but firms with three, 400 in AUM to 600 million in AUM. We were doing deals that size, and we’re just passing the hat, and saying, okay, to the families that were in our cap table and to ourselves, who wants to write a check? The cap table was changing all the time based on people’s buy-in and M&A transaction. But then, when you sit down, and you look at potentially $100 million of M&A, if every deal came through that you’re in conversations around, and we owned at the time 75% of the firm, the families owned 25. If all of that M&A were to have happened, we didn’t have $75 million as employees. We were facing dilution.

And then, we went to the families and said, “Hey, we don’t mind being diluted, but we got to know that if all of these came through, you guys want to invest another 100 million into this business.” And that’s when they said, “Well, we can. All the deals that you’ve done so far have been accretive and great. But, our value add to you is not M&A. It’s not underwriting. It’s not how to take this firm from four billion to 12 billion or customers. Why don’t you contemplate bringing in an institutional partner to help you round first base and go to second and third?” And so, I called a good friend, a gentleman by the name of Jimmy Dunne, who’s legendary in the world of golf and business. He’s a vice chair at Piper Sandler. I explained the situation, and he said, “Well, this is going to sound self-serving, but I think you should hire me and my firm to run a process to find your partner.”

Louis Diamond:

Classic investment banker.

Jason Fertitta:

And we did, and he worked on a very small retainer, and a contingency fee, and they helped us get ready to show the firm to the institutional world, and that took nine to 12 months of hard work to get ready. They ran the process. I think we had 30 firms sign the NDA in the October of ’24 month that you mentioned. I think we had 20 offers. And during that year, we were getting to know a lot of the people that were going to be bidding on us, and we frankly were incredibly impressed by Lovell Minnick and their success that they have had in investing in the wealth space. We were always pulling for Lovell Minnick to compete and compete well, got to run an honest process and Lovell Minnick was not the high bid, but they were a very good and well-thought-out bid that was easy for us to understand on why they were where they were.

And for us, it was about how can we create value from this point forward with the right partner to really grow the firm and scale it to where we wanted it to be? And so, that was the more important driving factor in our decision to sell to Lovell Minnick. Now, of course, we wanted to sell a minority piece, but the reality is, given the activity that we had in our M&A pipeline at the time, they were going to eventually get to majority anyway. And so, I may be skipping ahead a little bit in the podcast, but I know what some of the questions are going to contemplate, and our thought was, you’re in a better position to negotiate minority rights before the transaction than later. And so, we got all of that out on the table in our negotiations with our private equity partner, and then just got married immediately instead of had this weird period of where they ultimately were going to get to majority control through M&A, and then, you have this awkward moment where that shift happens after you’re already partners.

Louis Diamond:

Very interesting. Was it a hard decision to give up majority control over your baby?

Jason Fertitta:

Definitely a lot of self-reflecting on behalf of our team and everything, but I think where we came out with it, and I’m a big believer in this, is the people that really control the business are the people that control the relationships with the clients. Lovell Minnick knows that, and we’ve never had a decision in a year and a half that we don’t all arrive at the same place. We negotiate, we study, but they know that it’s not in their best interest to try and force the management team to do something that the management team is not in agreement on, because at the end of the day, we’re servicing all of these accounts. Look, we don’t see eye to eye exactly on everything, no partners do. But, we’re generally in the same zip code on everything, and we talk things through until we all arrive at the same place that this is in the best interest of the company.

And I think a big part of why that works so well for us in Lovell Minnick, and I think this is very unique in the industry, it all goes back to we all own the same share class. We’re all in the foxhole together. We all sink or swim together. There’s no way one group can win and another group can lose. We all own the exact same security. Not only do we all own the exact same security, but our employees own it. The families that are in our cap table own it. And so, every decision comes from the standpoint of how do we make decisions to benefit that security?

Louis Diamond:

Makes sense. It’s still a tough decision, but you lay it out, make it seem like an easy decision with the conviction you have, I think the very pure motivation to make that leap. Aside from capital to fuel M&A, what are the other things that Lovell Minnick is doing for your business to help it?

Jason Fertitta:

Well, Lovell Minnick, and this is another thing that was impressive to us, they’re always the first institutional capital until what’s otherwise an entrepreneurial family-owned business. They’re not afraid of building the things that you have to build to get ready to scale. They’ve seen it in every investment they’ve made. And so, that was very refreshing to us, because frankly, we wanted the help. We wanted the expertise. We’re financial advisors at heart. Like a lot of private equity firms, LMP has this third party advisory relationships with industry people, and they’ve brought those people into our firm, several sit on the board of the firm today, and they’ve just been fantastic to work with.

Some have more experience with FinTech, some have more experience with HR, some have more experience with actual investment platforms and product. Some have more experience in how to help clients optimize from a tax perspective. Some have family office experience. And so, we’ve really benefited from this group of people. And I would tell you that, since they came into our world, which is about 18 months ago, we have been building a lot of things that are about to be unveiled to not only our financial advisors, but our clients. And I think that the experience is just going to continue to get better for both of those segments.

Louis Diamond:

Very cool. Yeah, it seems like a great fit. And I meant to ask you before, because it’s such a cool, and I think still a fairly novel concept, but what was the thinking behind having nine families, their customers or clients come in, and buy some equity in the firm? Why’d you do that? And then what’s been the outcome of that?

Jason Fertitta:

It was more their idea than us after we launched the firm. And this goes back to my original comments about the clients want to do more business with you when you’re independent than when you’re inside the bank. And we have a lot of clients that are entrepreneurial. And so, I think when we explained to them the reasons why we were doing this, and the reasons why we’re so excited about it, they got excited about it too, some clients, most clients. And so, what they said was, “Yeah, we’re going to move our money to it, we’re excited about it, but if there’s an opportunity, we’d also like to own a piece of the firm.” And originally, when they said that, I didn’t know if they meant that they wanted us to give them, but they wrote a check. They all wrote checks. We set an arbitrary value of the firm in the first year after we launched it.

And that wasn’t a whole lot of science behind the value. It’s basically what we would’ve been paid by walking across the street, and that was the original value. And they bought into the firm, and then, Lovell Minnick really thought it was a nice novel concept that they hadn’t seen before, and they’ve embraced it. When they invested, we brought another round of clients into the firm at that valuation. I think it’s really powerful, because what’s important for us in these families is that they’re all pillars of their respective communities and they’re spread across all over the country and Mexico.

We have some incredibly good reputation, great business people in Mexico City, and Monterrey, and Los Angeles, and Midland, and Dallas, and Austin, and Houston. And we’re open to the concept of when we come into new markets, finding that pillar of the community, finding that family who people ask, “Well, what do you do with your money?” We want them to say, “Well, we own our own wealth management firm. He wants to have them call you and they’ll show you what we do with our money.” And that’s a powerful part of the organic growth and the flywheel.

Louis Diamond:

I absolutely love that. I oftentimes have clients, especially breakaway clients talk about how cool it would be to have a client or set of clients invest in their business. But, the reasons why, I love that as part of a very consistent, repeatable strategy of identifying key influencers essentially in different markets, and then having them come into the cap table. I would assume too, the dynamic of, “Oh, you should call Jason, he’s my financial advisor, he’s great,” to, “Hey, you should come in and meet my firm.” And I feel like clients are probably much more incentivized naturally to refer friends, family, et cetera. And just the power and dynamic of that referral is probably that much better than a referral from another happy customer who’s not an investor.

Jason Fertitta:

Exactly. When we’re looking at coming into a new city with a new partner, to the extent they have those clients in that community, and when they join us, we have a private equity partner that embraces that strategy and concept. When we’re talking to that Wall Street advisor, and they’re interested in our business model and our plan, I think that particular part of our business model is very differentiated and intriguing to them.

Louis Diamond:

Amazing. You mentioned in your last answer that you have, it sounds like you have some investors in Mexico, and that you’re serving families in Mexico and Latin America as well. Can you talk about adding that capability or the openness to go international? That’s clearly a big decision. It’s a different risk profile, different client needs. What was the thought process behind taking Americana, I guess, still in the Americas, but outside of America?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah. Well, I think a lot of it is growing up in Texas, there’s a lot of wonderful families from Mexico whose kids and grandkids have moved here, and our children are going to school with their children, and they’re part of our community, and I think they’re a great part of our community. And so, I just started to notice how Wall Street treated this community as just one, right? And what we were able to do is cherry-pick a few families that we knew very well that are incredibly good reputations in the cities that they’re from, and their origins are from. And there’s a high desire on behalf of not only those families, but their friends to invest into the United States into our economy. And given that a lot of their children and grandchildren live in the US, these are families that have citizens and their family inside of the US and back home in Mexico.

Most of these families, they’ve been going to our colleges. A lot of these families sit on the boards of Fortune 500 companies inside of the United States. These are families that are very easy to do due diligence on, and frankly, we have learned a lot from them. They’re very sophisticated families, and so, they’ve been amazing partners, and we use Bank of New York Pershing to custody a lot of these assets, and I think they’re increasingly becoming more interested in alternatives as part of their portfolios, because I think going back 15, 20 years ago, these families were mostly stocks, bonds, and cash. But, as they continue to build out their own family offices, they’re becoming more sophisticated and interested in alternatives, so it’s really been an exciting part of our firm.

Louis Diamond:

Did this expansion, does it scratch the itch to go into different Latin American countries in Europe and Asia, or is that not really part of the roadmap?

Jason Fertitta:

Well, it’s open to the concept. Like I said, the genesis of this for us was the fact that our children go to school with their children, and we got to know several families just through our social circles here in Texas. But, I don’t think that same phenomenon would exist in Europe, other Latin American countries per se, but we’re certainly open to it, and there’s a lot going on in Latin America. There’s a lot going on and a lot of potential, so we’re open to anything that increases the footprint in the right way for Americana.

Louis Diamond:

Great answer. Let’s go back a little bit to talk a little bit more about your M&A strategy. You merged with or acquired Boulevard Family Wealth, which was Matt Celenza’s firm. I think Matt was the first breakaway guest on our show, and an amazing advisor. You bought Goodpasture Gray in Nashville, and more recently you bought NRT Consulting. I think from my read, three different types of firms, different geographies. How do you think about the M&A strategy?

Jason Fertitta:

I feel like we’re building out a firm and departments in the firm, and each of those acquisitions goes into a different department of our firm. I think Matt Celenza and Boulevard are fantastic, and they’re really good at tax optimization strategies for families, and they’re really innovative there. That is a very hot topic with all of our clients. More and more families are getting smart about the fact that not only does it matter what your returns look like. What really matters is how much of those returns you get to keep. And so, Matt and his team are incredibly sophisticated and cutting edge on tax optimization, and that’s proliferating throughout our firm right now, which is I think making us even better at what we can advise and provide to our clients. I would say that’s more in the family office service and tax planning part of our firm.

Goodpasture Gray’s fantastic. WL who runs that firm, or did prior to the merger, I’ve known him for 30 years. He’s a longtime family friend. His clients are in Nashville, Santa Fe, and Texas. He and my father actually used to office together. And then, ironically, he hired Dynasty to represent him to find the right partner. That’s an example where full circle Dynasty brought him back and I hadn’t talked to him for decades, but we shared a bunch of fun stories about how I used to go up in college, and hang out with he and my dad in their office. That was a great full circle experience, but WL’s just a fantastic financial advisor that does what we’ve always done. He’s just a natural fit inside of our firm. And then NRT, Chris Ginsbach and his team, they’re unbelievable.

They do bookkeeping services for families. They’re not signing tax returns, but the more sophisticated these families get, some of these families have 35, to 45, to 55 different LLCs that require bookkeeping services. He’s an accountant by training, so is everyone that works there. And I think that there’s a lot of cross-pollinating with our client base that wants bookkeeping services for their needs. With all of these different M&A events, it’s trying to meet or have the ability to meet your client at wherever their pain points are. And some of your client’s pain points are in bookkeeping and accounting. Some are in tax optimization, and some are just good old-fashioned financial advice and access. And all three of those acquisitions that you described are meeting that client in a different pain point, but they’re all pain points, and they’re all important.

Louis Diamond:

When you’re thinking about M&A, is it like you have, these are the three areas that we want to add to the firm? Next one, making it up, we want to add tax preparation. Are you then going out to find a firm that fits the bill, or is it more so just you’re selective with who you take on, and you look for a new capability, or just like an extreme alignment with how you’re already serving clients, and then, that’s what makes a compelling deal for you?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah. Most of the time, we’re getting feedback from our clients on where they need help, and that is usually the spark that starts the fire on, okay, what if we added this? It’s really I would say more based on client feedback. We don’t have estate planning attorneys inside of Americana per se. We don’t have accountants that are signing people’s tax returns inside of Americana. We get a lot of interesting opportunities from accounting firms and estate planning firms. And so, I like how we have this great referral network in place with those industries. And so, I think we’d have to think long and hard about getting into those businesses per se.

Louis Diamond:

Makes sense. I feel like there’s probably a version of this story, your story, where you break away, you plot along, you’re happy to not have a boss anymore, clients are happy, maybe you get to like four or five billion in assets, and you call it a win, and just throw in coast mode, but clearly you didn’t do that. You went the opposite direction. What do you think drove the ambition to keep building towards something larger? What’s really sparking you and motivating you today maybe differently, or in a more defined way than it was when you first broke?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah, I would say it’s not just me, it’s all the founders, and I think all the employees. I share this and not to sound corny about it. I think everyone here wants to try and build something that his or her children would say, “My parent was one of the founders and employees of Americana Partners.” It’s like, I think when you work at a bank, you definitely care about your brand that you’re building, but this is a whole next level of care about your brand. We really care about this brand, and we want it to outlast all of us.

Louis Diamond:

Love that. For a successful wirehouse advisor or team that’s sitting on a really nice practice maybe similar in size or in the same realm that you had back where you were in that world, and they’re thinking about maximizing their value, what advice would you offer? Do you think your story is an outlier, or do you think it’s doable by others if they follow certain advice or principles?

Jason Fertitta:

I would have a two-word answer. Call us. I’m kidding. I have a much longer answer. One of the things I really respected about a certain advisor, and if he’s listening to this, he’ll know exactly who he is, but I feel awkward saying his name. When I was contemplating going independent, I talked to an entrepreneur I really admire, and I called him, and I said, “Hey, we’re thinking about doing this.” And he said, “Look, I’m going to try and convince you to join our firm, and if you don’t end up doing that, it’s fine. There’ll be no hard feelings, because we ended up launching our own firm and I would never fault you for the decision if you wanted to do that with your team.” And we thought long and hard, we almost joined his firm. It was in a very different geography so we ended up launching our own firm.

I would say that if you want to do it yourself, we would respond the same way. We would give you a high five, and wish you well, and say you’ve made a great decision, and we’d be pulling for you. If you want to spend more time with your clients, and less time in building the firm, we have the firm built, and it’s fantastic, and it wasn’t without blood, sweat and tears for seven years, and we can create a transaction that is economically the same or better as launching your own firm, and you have a voice, and you have a seat at the table, because we’re still small enough to where you can help shape the direction of this firm, and we want your input.

The difference is that instead of spending a third of your time interacting with financial advisors the way I do, you could spend 90% of your time interacting with your clients, instead of a third, and be part of a firm that I think has great national prospects. But, I would never fault someone for doing it themselves, because that’s what we did, and that would be hypocritical. But, I really do think that this is a better path, even if you did it yourself, or if you did it with someone like us. I think you’re choosing two better options than what you currently have.

Louis Diamond:

I think it’s a great perspective, and I think it’s balanced and fair too. There’s plenty of people that I speak to where their passion is building. They want to be the next Americana, right? That’s what’s going to spark them and get them out of bed. They want to do M&A, they want to be the CEO, they want to really make their mark on the industry, and that’s fine. But, I do think there’s probably more advisors out there that would love to be part of something, and they’d love equity, and they’re passionate about different things than you were passionate about when you launched the firm. And the theory of a rising tide lifts all boats, it’s like, you can do this yourself or let’s just build something bigger and better together. And just getting comfortable with the theory of you’ll own a smaller piece of the pie, but the pie is much more valuable than owning 100% or 80% of something that’s less valuable, and is going to take you in a different direction personally.

I always say we’re not in the business of making judgments for people. It’s up to them to define their goals, and then, we’ll help them execute on it. But, I really like that perspective. I agree, it’s not for everyone. What you did is extremely hard, it’s a risk, it’s a big swing. But, if you have the stomach for it, and you want to take the swing, to me there’s no better time to pursue that path than today.

Jason Fertitta:

I agree. And I could totally see a world over the next five years where some of these advisors that join us are bigger shareholders in this firm than me, and that would be great.

Louis Diamond:

Interesting.

Jason Fertitta:

I’m with you, not only do I agree with what you’re saying, to me, I’ve never thought about how much of this company do I own? I’ve thought about what is the percentage of the company that I own, and what is it worth? I could care less if it was 25%, 12.5%, 5%. What I care is, what is that slice worth?

Louis Diamond:

That’s a fun way to look at it. Jason, this has been really fun. This new series Build, Grow, and Transact, this is proof of concept, but we’re going to have to do a ton of these, because the richness of detail, and whenever we have breakaway guests, we’re talking to them in the beginning when they’re still finding their feet, everything’s new and fresh. They haven’t thought about or executed on M&A and taking on capital partners. But, I feel like this is the missing ingredient where it’s a playbook for how others can be better themselves, something to shoot towards. And I really appreciate your candor and transparency, and I’m very serious, we’ll have to do this again when you’re at 25 billion, and you have even more lessons, and I’m sure battle scars to share.

Jason Fertitta:

No doubt. I’m for sure open to doing that. And maybe in the meantime, I see the pictures behind your head there. I’d love to come visit you in Park City and hang out and ski, or play golf, or-

Louis Diamond:

You got it.

Jason Fertitta:

All right. Thanks for your time and thank you for having me.

Louis Diamond:

Thanks, Jason.

Mindy Diamond:

As a financial advisor, you hold yourself to the highest standards of integrity, honesty, and credibility. You are successful, because you take your professional responsibility seriously, and are dedicated to your clients, but are you living your best business life? Are your goals aligned with your firms, or could a better option exist? Should I Stay Or Should I Go is a book written with you in mind. It’s a self-guided journey that walks you through the key steps that we take with our advisor clients. This strategic thought process and roadmap to professional self-discovery is designed to help you ask the right questions, and think critically and objectively, whether you’re considering change or not. Learn how to get your copy at diamond-consultants.com/thebook.

Build, Grow & Transact: Americana’s $12B Path from Breakaway to Enterprise

A conversation with Louis Diamond and Jason Fertitta, CEO & Partner at Americana Partners.

Louis Diamond:

Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is Build, Grow & Transact: Americana’s $12B Path from Breakaway to Enterprise. It’s a conversation with Jason Fertitta, CEO and partner of Americana Partners. I’m Louis Diamond, and this is the Diamond Podcast for financial advisors.

Mindy Diamond:

At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors, and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned. And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education driven, and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at 908-879-1002. Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual advisor transition report. It’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement, and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport.

Louis Diamond:

Independence is often viewed as the finish line. Break away, gain control, own the business, and enjoy the economics that come with it. But, for some advisors, going independent is just the beginning. That’s the idea behind this new series called Build, Grow, and Transact, featuring advisors who saw independence not as a destination, but as the first chapter of a business building story. And there will be some familiar names along the way, including our first guest who was on our show back in 2020, talking about what was at the time, one of the industry’s breakaway moves. That’s Jason Fertitta, CEO and founding partner of Americana Partners. When Jason and his partners left Morgan Stanley in 2019, they started Americana with approximately 2.6 billion in client assets, and a vision that extended well beyond becoming a successful independent firm. Today, Americana oversees more than 12 billion, has expanded nationally, completed multiple acquisitions, built out a professional management team, and brought on institutional capital to support its next phase of growth.

What makes Jason’s perspective valuable that he’s now experienced independence through several different lenses as a breakaway advisor, as a founder, as a builder of enterprise value, and now as the leader of a firm, actively pursuing acquisitions and recruiting talent from across the industry. We talk about the decisions that fueled Americana’s growth, why Jason has always viewed the business through a long-term lens, what changed when private equity entered the picture, and why maximizing enterprise value often requires a very different mindset than maximizing current income. For advisors who think independence is a destination, Jason’s story offers a look at what can happen when it’s treated as a starting point instead, so let’s get to it. Jason, thanks for coming back on our show today.

Jason Fertitta:

Pleasure to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Louis Diamond:

You got it. Yeah, you’re our first guest in our new subseries, so you should feel honored. And I’m honored too, because the last time we had you on the show, Americana was about a year old, you’re navigating COVID, and all those challenges. But, for listeners who may not remember the episode, can you give us a quick version of the origin story of Americana, and what the firm looked like when you first launched it?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah, I believe if I’m remembering correctly, I was in Colorado talking to you guys, and it was right after we launched, so that was a fun but stressful time. I think at the time that we launched, it was certainly the road less traveled. Most teams go from one wirehouse to another. We had an entrepreneurial itch. There was 11 of us that started the firm. We actually launched the firm from this exact building that we’re in here, but all of this was under construction. We were in temporary space one floor below on card tables, and pizza boxes, and all the things that you can envision when you think of a startup. But, yeah, we weighed all of our options in terms of going from one firm to another, staying where we were, and had a lot of talks with ourselves, and our spouses, and they were all very supportive.

When you do something like this, you’re certainly scratching the entrepreneurial itch that I think is required for somebody that wants to try and build their own company. And I think we’re all satisfying that itch in different ways. We all had a lot of other outside business interests. I’m passionate about the restaurant industry, because it’s what I grew up in as a kid. And so, had opened some restaurants with some chefs that I really admire, and were doing things like that to scratch the itch, but there’s no other way to do it than doing that in your profession.

And so, we decided to launch the firm. We also just felt like Texas being such a wealthy state, there really wasn’t a regionally dominant RIA from here. There’s a lot of big RIAs in the Northeast, and the Northwest, and the West Coast. And we just felt like Texas was ready to hopefully be able to support the concept of launching it from the state, and then expanding it out regionally and nationally from here. Those are all thoughts in our heads and dreams and we’ve worked really hard to get to where we are, but I think we’re in a great spot right now for another leg of growth.

Louis Diamond:

Amazing. I would say that plan has certainly worked out. When you were on our show last in 2019, the firm was at about 2.6 billion at time of launch. And now, I saw in news articles and your ADV, it’s north of 12 billion, but I’m sure it’s even larger now. Can you walk through just what’s the makeup of the firm today? How many partners and advisors? What’s the profile of the end client? What markets are you in, in and around Texas or around the country?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah, so today we’re roughly a hundred employees, right at 13 billion in AUM. I would say we have six offices, Houston, Austin, Dallas, Midland, Beverly Hills, and Nashville. We have about 30 advisors, 30 financial advisors, and our average account size I would say is right around $20 million. That’s not a rule, it’s just the way it is. We have some wonderful accounts that are two or three million, and we have some great accounts that are well over a billion. And in terms of the makeup of the firm, since the time we’ve spoken, and we’ll get into this later, but we have run in private equity, we have about nine families that are owners of the firm with us. It’s really families, private equity, and employees. That’s the cap table currently.

Louis Diamond:

Very cool. As far as building the firm geographically, for the offices of Texas, that makes sense to your earlier comment about wanting to build a Texas dominant or a regionally dominant firm. But, how’d you land in Beverly Hills and Nashville? That’s a little bit different.

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah, it is. I think so much of where we’re going is secondary to who we’re partnering with. I think we would go anywhere in the country if we had the right partner in that city. We’re not necessarily saying we have to be in Atlanta. Let’s find the right partners in Atlanta. It’s more about, we found the right partners in Atlanta, so we’re going to Atlanta. And you meet these people everywhere. Everyone has their own Rolodex inside of our firm. Sometimes it’s an employee here that has a relationship with someone that wants to break away and be part of an independent firm. Sometimes it’s me. There’s a lot of golf DNA in our firm, so we’ve met a ton of people through the incredible game of golf. In fact, last weekend we just hosted our first Americana Cub Golf Tournament where we took over an entire club, and invited 40 strategic invitations to people that could be helpful to our firm.

I would say it’s really just networking, trying to find like-minded advisors that were very big at putting the client at the center of every decision you make. A lot of times you’ll come across of an advisor that financially looks really good on paper, but they’re maybe not always doing what’s right by the client. We run from those situations. We’d rather have a financial advisor that perhaps statistically is inferior to that other one on paper from a P&L perspective, but we feel like it’s doing what’s right by the client in the decisions. And that’s usually the main factor for us in seeking out the right partners.

Louis Diamond:

I love that. And one of the premises of this new subseries of ours is about growing, and then, of course, recognizing that value through some sort of monetization. To me, the star of your show is your insanely impressive growth, which I would assume comes from both organic means, and also from inorganic, whether through M&A, or recruiting teams from your predecessor firms, or from other wirehouses. Can you talk a little bit about the breakdown of the two growth channels, and how you pursue both, organic and then inorganic growth?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah. Well, I think organic growth, the preference for anyone that’s in our sea, because you don’t have to pay for organic growth. It’s just you have to expose your platform to potential clients, and it has to be differentiated enough for them to move assets from another firm to yours. And I would tell you, I think we do a really good job at that. We’ve built an incredible platform that has, and enables a financial advisor to have all the same arrows in the quiver that a big firm has. We’ve got an incredible alts department. We’ve got an incredible CIO that produces great research. We got incredible in-house portfolio managers, both in the core equity space, but then also the municipal bond space. We have an incredible external manager platform that has everything from cash management on steroids, to venture capital investing, to co-investing, to direct investments into companies.

We have this really great platform. We also recognize that we want to grow through M&A as well, because there’s only so much time in the day you’re not willing to add more employees and more like-minded advisors to grow. We do both, to your point, we absolutely do both, and they’re both equally as important. On the M&A side, I would say it’s been responsible for half of our AUM growth over the last seven years, and the other half has been organic. And I think as we get bigger and bigger, that number’s going to not stay consistent. I would say that if we could grow our AUM organically by 10% per year, and then do five to seven acquisitions a year, combination of RIAs and Wall Street lift outs, I think those are good goals for us, and we’re off to a good start in trying to achieve those goals.

Louis Diamond:

I think if you pull off even half of that, I think your private equity sponsors, and investors, and employees would be very happy. Can we double click into the organic growth side? How do you view whether your growth rate changing organically since leaving Morgan to start the RIA? And if it has changed, what do you think are the things that are responsible for the faster growth, or slower growth if it’s slower than when you’re at Morgan?

Jason Fertitta:

One of the interesting secrets about being independent versus inside of a big bank is I think your clients will actually do more business with you if you’re independent. I didn’t realize that until we went independent. I had heard that before, but I was like, that may or may not be true. But, when we went independent, and every time we recruit a team from a big bank, the same thing happens. It’s like the clients are like, “What took you so long?” They’ve very much, for the most part … Now, that’s not every client, but most clients, I think prefer to be serviced by an advisor that’s conflict bringing the independent channel.

There are other clients that might have a big investment banking relationship with a big bank, or something like that, like a business reason for not leaving. But, in terms of just being able to service the client from an independent channel where you’re a legal fiduciary, I think all the interest is aligned from client to service provider, and I just think it’s easier to raise money in this channel than it is at a bank.

Louis Diamond:

And you really think the types of clients you work with or just clients in general, the difference maker is really the conflict-free advice. Obviously, it sounds good, but I would argue that when you were at Morgan Stanley, your team was one of the top teams in the country, you had an amazing reputation, you’re probably giving similar quality advice then than you were today. How has that really manifested itself?

Jason Fertitta:

I always say I think you can have a great experience at a firm that is perhaps not the most prestigious, great firm in the country if you’re with the right team. And I think you can also have a horrible experience at a firm with a great reputation if you’re with the wrong team. It is my belief the most important thing from the customer’s perspective is who you’re working with. I appreciate your comments about our team, and we work very hard to deserve the reputation that you’re talking about. But, I also think that when you’re in the independent world, some of the things the banks do very well is they have great investment platforms, and a lot of due diligence in their products. I think when you’re an independent firm, you’re obviously, you don’t immediately have all of those same intangibles that a big bank has.

I think it was very important for us to invest heavily into those departments inside of our firm to where we could be on some equal footing with Wall Street firms, and we have been. We have raised a lot of money for alternative managers. I think alternatives are a huge secret sauce that an independent advisor needs to have access to, because in a world where the public markets are getting more efficient and more commoditized, it’s very challenging to grow organically the way that we have without some secret sauce. And I think the secret sauce lies within the alternatives, because it’s very hard to differentiate yourself if you’re just trying to optimize someone’s public equity portfolio, and improve where they sit on the efficient frontier. I think that’s just a tough challenge. But, if you can mix in some truly differentiated alternatives where access is a big component of the value proposition, then all of a sudden, you’re bringing your clients something special, and something that’s unique.

Louis Diamond:

I really like that perspective. I think you’re completely right. I’ve always heard people say investments are commoditized, and it’s all about advice and planning, but I think the way you framed it about the ALFA essentially being worked out of it, so it’s the access, and it’s what you’re doing different on the investment side outside of the more basic or commoditized stuff that’s a difference maker. When you launched the firm, and I believe still today, Americana hired Dynasty Financial Partners as your infrastructure partner. Now that you’re significantly larger, you’re seven years into your independent journey, how does the relationship with Dynasty change, if at all? What do they do for you that you benefit from differently today than when you first launched?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah, it would’ve been impossible for us to do what we did without Dynasty’s help. Dynasty has delivered for us in a meaningful way and they continue to. They’re a great partner. We definitely are developing our own sea legs as well, just because you have to just by virtue of the size that you get to. But, Dynasty, I think, has been incredibly innovative in terms of launching an investment bank and bringing … Dynasty’s brought us deals, which is incredible. Just in addition to being an infrastructure partner, they’ve actually provided us deal flow.

They’re also, because they’re working with so many firms, you get in all sorts of situations as an independent firm, and to have someone to pick up the phone and say, “Here’s what we’re dealing with.” And they’ll say, “Oh, here are the three things you need to do. You either need to do it like this or this.” Just a lot of experience within Dynasty. I don’t know if we’re Dynasty’s biggest client or not, but I would say we’re certainly in their top three. We are looking to continue that relationship, and always having a relationship with Dynasty, but I would describe it as evolving, because our revenue is up 6X in the last six years.

Louis Diamond:

Amazing. That makes complete sense. The needs of the business when you are leaving a big firm is got to get the clients over, got to build the plane before it can fly, and understand how to do X, Y, and Z, to now, it’s enterprise building, and optimizing, and growing inorganically, so that makes complete sense, and very cool to hear that Dynasty has evolved or morphed the relationship to meet you where you are now. And to me, I think a big part of that is hiring professional management. That’s always a question we get. When am I big enough? When’s the right time to hire professional management, whether it’s a full-time CEO, a CFO, a COO, et cetera. I know in your case, fairly early on you hired Ron Thacker who was a regional manager from Morgan Stanley. I saw recently you hired a CFO, so you’re really professionalizing the leadership ranks. When did you know it was the right time to build a professional management team, and how did you think about that evolution?

Jason Fertitta:

We knew from day one that’s what we wanted to do. I think when you go independent, there’s a couple of different schools of thought. One school of thought is I can go independent. I’m not going to really have a boss. I’ll be my own boss. I may or may not grow the business. I’m going to run it in a way that’s lean. I might be able to have a little bit more of a take home because there’s not a third hand in the cookie jar in terms of the bank, and it’s a great lifestyle. I think that’s one school of thought and I think that’s great. That was not our school of thought. Our school of thought is we had a belief that in this country, there’s going to emerge five to 10 regionally dominant RIAs, and these regionally dominant RIAs were going to enjoy economies of scale, and they were going to compete with Wall Street.

And in order to do that, we had to reinvest a lot of our profit into our business through building this management team that you’re referencing. Even to this day, I don’t make anywhere near the amount of income that I made when I was on Wall Street, but I’m not, and it’s because we’re building equity value, and we’re building something that will last, and we reinvest a lot of our cash flow into professionalizing the management team, and then being able to deliver on that promise to the financial advisors that are here that you’re going to have a platform, that when you walk in the room, you’re going to be able to compete with Wall Street. And so, that’s always been our goal, which is not necessarily everybody’s goal when they go independent, because it’s a lifestyle decision really. I work way harder today than I worked when I was at a Wall Street firm.

Louis Diamond:

It’s so interesting. Two threads I want to tug on from what you said. The first one is I think just the comment you made that you’re making less today when the business is significantly larger than it was when you’re at Morgan Stanley, you’re working harder. I think even that dynamic is going to feel like a shock to a lot of people, right? If you’re working harder, the business is doing six times more revenue than it was at Morgan Stanley, that doesn’t seem like a fair trade. How do you think about that relative to the equity value that you’re amassing? Was that always the plan, or is that just something you’ve leaned into as the firm has grown and scaled?

Jason Fertitta:

Well, the third component you left out is my net worth is up 10X-

Louis Diamond:

There you go.

Jason Fertitta:

… whereas if I would’ve stayed at a Wall Street firm, and so are all the employees here. If it’s about that, I can tell you that we checked that box. Americana is very valuable, and we’re happy about that. It’s really just about how you want to create that, right? If you want to create it through income, and pay a lot of taxes along the way, stay at the Wall Street firm. But, if you want to create value for yourself and your partners, and grow your balance sheet, you can do it in a much more tax efficient way in the independent world. And I’m light years ahead of where I would’ve been if I would’ve stayed at a Wall Street firm.

Louis Diamond:

I think that’s the coolest realization I think someone can have, right? We always say it’s like, what do you value more? Is it the short-term liquidity, or certainty of getting a big upfront recruiting deal at ordinary income, or staying where you are and keep making your 50% payout, take advantage of your firm’s retire in place program? And for many people, that’s what they value. But, for you, I think you very clearly and transparently articulated that, yeah, I might make less, but what really matters is my net worth. It’s how much I’m actually netting for my family in the long run. For people who want to play the long game, really buy into that concept, it sounds like following your path would be ideal, but it may not be for everyone.

Jason Fertitta:

It’s a much better path, and I’m living proof of it, and not only am I living proof of it, all of my partners are here, and everybody that owns equity in Americana is living proof of it.

Louis Diamond:

Amazing. You said you’re working more now than when you’re at Morgan. How has your day-to-day, or day in the life changed? What types of activities are you doing more or less of, and how do you balance everything?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah, it’s hard to balance everything, it is. But, I would say that one of the unique things about Americana is the founders are all financial advisors. We aren’t consultants that came out of the consulting world, we’re financial advisors. I’m still a financial advisor. I still cover clients. I would say a third of my time is actually covering the house accounts here with some of my original partners. A third of my time is firm related stuff, and then, a third of my time is M&A, and that’s not only M&A, but helping the advisors that are here grow their business also. And so, I come across a lot of leads and opportunities. I’m not really taking them for the house account book or myself. I’m finding the right advisors that I feel I could service the clients the best, and then I’m flipping them to them and sitting second chair and I’ve seen some amazing growth to their businesses by just being able to send them leads.

Louis Diamond:

Yeah. I think that’s always like the tug of war for … I think most founders of RIAs in this industry, they were advisors themselves. They were the rainmakers, or they still are, but there’s definitely some folks who, whether because of lack of time, or lose the spark or passion for working with clients, that they pivot to being full-time CEO, or we’ve even seen people go the other way where they say, “I was the CEO. I really just want to be an advisor, or just do M&A, and I’m going to hire a CEO.” It’s really cool to hear how you split up your time, and you’re able to do it all. And I’m sure it’s not perfect. I’m sure your family wishes they saw you more, and et cetera, but it sounds like you’re able to really pursue your different passions.

Jason Fertitta:

All those three activities are very fun, and they keep everyday interesting, and you don’t necessarily know at what points in the day you’re going to be working on which bucket, and there’s a lot of blend and overlap, but we spend a lot of time here working on behalf of our clients, and the firm, and every day is an adventure, but it’s fun. It’s a blast.

Louis Diamond:

Absolutely. Well, let’s spend some time talking about your fairly recent capital raise. In October of 2024, Americana announced that PE firm Lovell Minnick Partners, the firm’s first outside institutional investor was coming in to take a majority stake in the firm. Can you take us back to that decision? I’m sure it’s still clearly vivid. Maybe talk through it, and when did you first start to think seriously about bringing in capital?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah, so probably at the end of ’23, we looked down, and there was $100 million worth of potential M&A that was fairly actionable that we could do. And the other M&A events we did were small deals, 10, $20 million sometimes, but firms with three, 400 in AUM to 600 million in AUM. We were doing deals that size, and we’re just passing the hat, and saying, okay, to the families that were in our cap table and to ourselves, who wants to write a check? The cap table was changing all the time based on people’s buy-in and M&A transaction. But then, when you sit down, and you look at potentially $100 million of M&A, if every deal came through that you’re in conversations around, and we owned at the time 75% of the firm, the families owned 25. If all of that M&A were to have happened, we didn’t have $75 million as employees. We were facing dilution.

And then, we went to the families and said, “Hey, we don’t mind being diluted, but we got to know that if all of these came through, you guys want to invest another 100 million into this business.” And that’s when they said, “Well, we can. All the deals that you’ve done so far have been accretive and great. But, our value add to you is not M&A. It’s not underwriting. It’s not how to take this firm from four billion to 12 billion or customers. Why don’t you contemplate bringing in an institutional partner to help you round first base and go to second and third?” And so, I called a good friend, a gentleman by the name of Jimmy Dunne, who’s legendary in the world of golf and business. He’s a vice chair at Piper Sandler. I explained the situation, and he said, “Well, this is going to sound self-serving, but I think you should hire me and my firm to run a process to find your partner.”

Louis Diamond:

Classic investment banker.

Jason Fertitta:

And we did, and he worked on a very small retainer, and a contingency fee, and they helped us get ready to show the firm to the institutional world, and that took nine to 12 months of hard work to get ready. They ran the process. I think we had 30 firms sign the NDA in the October of ’24 month that you mentioned. I think we had 20 offers. And during that year, we were getting to know a lot of the people that were going to be bidding on us, and we frankly were incredibly impressed by Lovell Minnick and their success that they have had in investing in the wealth space. We were always pulling for Lovell Minnick to compete and compete well, got to run an honest process and Lovell Minnick was not the high bid, but they were a very good and well-thought-out bid that was easy for us to understand on why they were where they were.

And for us, it was about how can we create value from this point forward with the right partner to really grow the firm and scale it to where we wanted it to be? And so, that was the more important driving factor in our decision to sell to Lovell Minnick. Now, of course, we wanted to sell a minority piece, but the reality is, given the activity that we had in our M&A pipeline at the time, they were going to eventually get to majority anyway. And so, I may be skipping ahead a little bit in the podcast, but I know what some of the questions are going to contemplate, and our thought was, you’re in a better position to negotiate minority rights before the transaction than later. And so, we got all of that out on the table in our negotiations with our private equity partner, and then just got married immediately instead of had this weird period of where they ultimately were going to get to majority control through M&A, and then, you have this awkward moment where that shift happens after you’re already partners.

Louis Diamond:

Very interesting. Was it a hard decision to give up majority control over your baby?

Jason Fertitta:

Definitely a lot of self-reflecting on behalf of our team and everything, but I think where we came out with it, and I’m a big believer in this, is the people that really control the business are the people that control the relationships with the clients. Lovell Minnick knows that, and we’ve never had a decision in a year and a half that we don’t all arrive at the same place. We negotiate, we study, but they know that it’s not in their best interest to try and force the management team to do something that the management team is not in agreement on, because at the end of the day, we’re servicing all of these accounts. Look, we don’t see eye to eye exactly on everything, no partners do. But, we’re generally in the same zip code on everything, and we talk things through until we all arrive at the same place that this is in the best interest of the company.

And I think a big part of why that works so well for us in Lovell Minnick, and I think this is very unique in the industry, it all goes back to we all own the same share class. We’re all in the foxhole together. We all sink or swim together. There’s no way one group can win and another group can lose. We all own the exact same security. Not only do we all own the exact same security, but our employees own it. The families that are in our cap table own it. And so, every decision comes from the standpoint of how do we make decisions to benefit that security?

Louis Diamond:

Makes sense. It’s still a tough decision, but you lay it out, make it seem like an easy decision with the conviction you have, I think the very pure motivation to make that leap. Aside from capital to fuel M&A, what are the other things that Lovell Minnick is doing for your business to help it?

Jason Fertitta:

Well, Lovell Minnick, and this is another thing that was impressive to us, they’re always the first institutional capital until what’s otherwise an entrepreneurial family-owned business. They’re not afraid of building the things that you have to build to get ready to scale. They’ve seen it in every investment they’ve made. And so, that was very refreshing to us, because frankly, we wanted the help. We wanted the expertise. We’re financial advisors at heart. Like a lot of private equity firms, LMP has this third party advisory relationships with industry people, and they’ve brought those people into our firm, several sit on the board of the firm today, and they’ve just been fantastic to work with.

Some have more experience with FinTech, some have more experience with HR, some have more experience with actual investment platforms and product. Some have more experience in how to help clients optimize from a tax perspective. Some have family office experience. And so, we’ve really benefited from this group of people. And I would tell you that, since they came into our world, which is about 18 months ago, we have been building a lot of things that are about to be unveiled to not only our financial advisors, but our clients. And I think that the experience is just going to continue to get better for both of those segments.

Louis Diamond:

Very cool. Yeah, it seems like a great fit. And I meant to ask you before, because it’s such a cool, and I think still a fairly novel concept, but what was the thinking behind having nine families, their customers or clients come in, and buy some equity in the firm? Why’d you do that? And then what’s been the outcome of that?

Jason Fertitta:

It was more their idea than us after we launched the firm. And this goes back to my original comments about the clients want to do more business with you when you’re independent than when you’re inside the bank. And we have a lot of clients that are entrepreneurial. And so, I think when we explained to them the reasons why we were doing this, and the reasons why we’re so excited about it, they got excited about it too, some clients, most clients. And so, what they said was, “Yeah, we’re going to move our money to it, we’re excited about it, but if there’s an opportunity, we’d also like to own a piece of the firm.” And originally, when they said that, I didn’t know if they meant that they wanted us to give them, but they wrote a check. They all wrote checks. We set an arbitrary value of the firm in the first year after we launched it.

And that wasn’t a whole lot of science behind the value. It’s basically what we would’ve been paid by walking across the street, and that was the original value. And they bought into the firm, and then, Lovell Minnick really thought it was a nice novel concept that they hadn’t seen before, and they’ve embraced it. When they invested, we brought another round of clients into the firm at that valuation. I think it’s really powerful, because what’s important for us in these families is that they’re all pillars of their respective communities and they’re spread across all over the country and Mexico.

We have some incredibly good reputation, great business people in Mexico City, and Monterrey, and Los Angeles, and Midland, and Dallas, and Austin, and Houston. And we’re open to the concept of when we come into new markets, finding that pillar of the community, finding that family who people ask, “Well, what do you do with your money?” We want them to say, “Well, we own our own wealth management firm. He wants to have them call you and they’ll show you what we do with our money.” And that’s a powerful part of the organic growth and the flywheel.

Louis Diamond:

I absolutely love that. I oftentimes have clients, especially breakaway clients talk about how cool it would be to have a client or set of clients invest in their business. But, the reasons why, I love that as part of a very consistent, repeatable strategy of identifying key influencers essentially in different markets, and then having them come into the cap table. I would assume too, the dynamic of, “Oh, you should call Jason, he’s my financial advisor, he’s great,” to, “Hey, you should come in and meet my firm.” And I feel like clients are probably much more incentivized naturally to refer friends, family, et cetera. And just the power and dynamic of that referral is probably that much better than a referral from another happy customer who’s not an investor.

Jason Fertitta:

Exactly. When we’re looking at coming into a new city with a new partner, to the extent they have those clients in that community, and when they join us, we have a private equity partner that embraces that strategy and concept. When we’re talking to that Wall Street advisor, and they’re interested in our business model and our plan, I think that particular part of our business model is very differentiated and intriguing to them.

Louis Diamond:

Amazing. You mentioned in your last answer that you have, it sounds like you have some investors in Mexico, and that you’re serving families in Mexico and Latin America as well. Can you talk about adding that capability or the openness to go international? That’s clearly a big decision. It’s a different risk profile, different client needs. What was the thought process behind taking Americana, I guess, still in the Americas, but outside of America?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah. Well, I think a lot of it is growing up in Texas, there’s a lot of wonderful families from Mexico whose kids and grandkids have moved here, and our children are going to school with their children, and they’re part of our community, and I think they’re a great part of our community. And so, I just started to notice how Wall Street treated this community as just one, right? And what we were able to do is cherry-pick a few families that we knew very well that are incredibly good reputations in the cities that they’re from, and their origins are from. And there’s a high desire on behalf of not only those families, but their friends to invest into the United States into our economy. And given that a lot of their children and grandchildren live in the US, these are families that have citizens and their family inside of the US and back home in Mexico.

Most of these families, they’ve been going to our colleges. A lot of these families sit on the boards of Fortune 500 companies inside of the United States. These are families that are very easy to do due diligence on, and frankly, we have learned a lot from them. They’re very sophisticated families, and so, they’ve been amazing partners, and we use Bank of New York Pershing to custody a lot of these assets, and I think they’re increasingly becoming more interested in alternatives as part of their portfolios, because I think going back 15, 20 years ago, these families were mostly stocks, bonds, and cash. But, as they continue to build out their own family offices, they’re becoming more sophisticated and interested in alternatives, so it’s really been an exciting part of our firm.

Louis Diamond:

Did this expansion, does it scratch the itch to go into different Latin American countries in Europe and Asia, or is that not really part of the roadmap?

Jason Fertitta:

Well, it’s open to the concept. Like I said, the genesis of this for us was the fact that our children go to school with their children, and we got to know several families just through our social circles here in Texas. But, I don’t think that same phenomenon would exist in Europe, other Latin American countries per se, but we’re certainly open to it, and there’s a lot going on in Latin America. There’s a lot going on and a lot of potential, so we’re open to anything that increases the footprint in the right way for Americana.

Louis Diamond:

Great answer. Let’s go back a little bit to talk a little bit more about your M&A strategy. You merged with or acquired Boulevard Family Wealth, which was Matt Celenza’s firm. I think Matt was the first breakaway guest on our show, and an amazing advisor. You bought Goodpasture Gray in Nashville, and more recently you bought NRT Consulting. I think from my read, three different types of firms, different geographies. How do you think about the M&A strategy?

Jason Fertitta:

I feel like we’re building out a firm and departments in the firm, and each of those acquisitions goes into a different department of our firm. I think Matt Celenza and Boulevard are fantastic, and they’re really good at tax optimization strategies for families, and they’re really innovative there. That is a very hot topic with all of our clients. More and more families are getting smart about the fact that not only does it matter what your returns look like. What really matters is how much of those returns you get to keep. And so, Matt and his team are incredibly sophisticated and cutting edge on tax optimization, and that’s proliferating throughout our firm right now, which is I think making us even better at what we can advise and provide to our clients. I would say that’s more in the family office service and tax planning part of our firm.

Goodpasture Gray’s fantastic. WL who runs that firm, or did prior to the merger, I’ve known him for 30 years. He’s a longtime family friend. His clients are in Nashville, Santa Fe, and Texas. He and my father actually used to office together. And then, ironically, he hired Dynasty to represent him to find the right partner. That’s an example where full circle Dynasty brought him back and I hadn’t talked to him for decades, but we shared a bunch of fun stories about how I used to go up in college, and hang out with he and my dad in their office. That was a great full circle experience, but WL’s just a fantastic financial advisor that does what we’ve always done. He’s just a natural fit inside of our firm. And then NRT, Chris Ginsbach and his team, they’re unbelievable.

They do bookkeeping services for families. They’re not signing tax returns, but the more sophisticated these families get, some of these families have 35, to 45, to 55 different LLCs that require bookkeeping services. He’s an accountant by training, so is everyone that works there. And I think that there’s a lot of cross-pollinating with our client base that wants bookkeeping services for their needs. With all of these different M&A events, it’s trying to meet or have the ability to meet your client at wherever their pain points are. And some of your client’s pain points are in bookkeeping and accounting. Some are in tax optimization, and some are just good old-fashioned financial advice and access. And all three of those acquisitions that you described are meeting that client in a different pain point, but they’re all pain points, and they’re all important.

Louis Diamond:

When you’re thinking about M&A, is it like you have, these are the three areas that we want to add to the firm? Next one, making it up, we want to add tax preparation. Are you then going out to find a firm that fits the bill, or is it more so just you’re selective with who you take on, and you look for a new capability, or just like an extreme alignment with how you’re already serving clients, and then, that’s what makes a compelling deal for you?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah. Most of the time, we’re getting feedback from our clients on where they need help, and that is usually the spark that starts the fire on, okay, what if we added this? It’s really I would say more based on client feedback. We don’t have estate planning attorneys inside of Americana per se. We don’t have accountants that are signing people’s tax returns inside of Americana. We get a lot of interesting opportunities from accounting firms and estate planning firms. And so, I like how we have this great referral network in place with those industries. And so, I think we’d have to think long and hard about getting into those businesses per se.

Louis Diamond:

Makes sense. I feel like there’s probably a version of this story, your story, where you break away, you plot along, you’re happy to not have a boss anymore, clients are happy, maybe you get to like four or five billion in assets, and you call it a win, and just throw in coast mode, but clearly you didn’t do that. You went the opposite direction. What do you think drove the ambition to keep building towards something larger? What’s really sparking you and motivating you today maybe differently, or in a more defined way than it was when you first broke?

Jason Fertitta:

Yeah, I would say it’s not just me, it’s all the founders, and I think all the employees. I share this and not to sound corny about it. I think everyone here wants to try and build something that his or her children would say, “My parent was one of the founders and employees of Americana Partners.” It’s like, I think when you work at a bank, you definitely care about your brand that you’re building, but this is a whole next level of care about your brand. We really care about this brand, and we want it to outlast all of us.

Louis Diamond:

Love that. For a successful wirehouse advisor or team that’s sitting on a really nice practice maybe similar in size or in the same realm that you had back where you were in that world, and they’re thinking about maximizing their value, what advice would you offer? Do you think your story is an outlier, or do you think it’s doable by others if they follow certain advice or principles?

Jason Fertitta:

I would have a two-word answer. Call us. I’m kidding. I have a much longer answer. One of the things I really respected about a certain advisor, and if he’s listening to this, he’ll know exactly who he is, but I feel awkward saying his name. When I was contemplating going independent, I talked to an entrepreneur I really admire, and I called him, and I said, “Hey, we’re thinking about doing this.” And he said, “Look, I’m going to try and convince you to join our firm, and if you don’t end up doing that, it’s fine. There’ll be no hard feelings, because we ended up launching our own firm and I would never fault you for the decision if you wanted to do that with your team.” And we thought long and hard, we almost joined his firm. It was in a very different geography so we ended up launching our own firm.

I would say that if you want to do it yourself, we would respond the same way. We would give you a high five, and wish you well, and say you’ve made a great decision, and we’d be pulling for you. If you want to spend more time with your clients, and less time in building the firm, we have the firm built, and it’s fantastic, and it wasn’t without blood, sweat and tears for seven years, and we can create a transaction that is economically the same or better as launching your own firm, and you have a voice, and you have a seat at the table, because we’re still small enough to where you can help shape the direction of this firm, and we want your input.

The difference is that instead of spending a third of your time interacting with financial advisors the way I do, you could spend 90% of your time interacting with your clients, instead of a third, and be part of a firm that I think has great national prospects. But, I would never fault someone for doing it themselves, because that’s what we did, and that would be hypocritical. But, I really do think that this is a better path, even if you did it yourself, or if you did it with someone like us. I think you’re choosing two better options than what you currently have.

Louis Diamond:

I think it’s a great perspective, and I think it’s balanced and fair too. There’s plenty of people that I speak to where their passion is building. They want to be the next Americana, right? That’s what’s going to spark them and get them out of bed. They want to do M&A, they want to be the CEO, they want to really make their mark on the industry, and that’s fine. But, I do think there’s probably more advisors out there that would love to be part of something, and they’d love equity, and they’re passionate about different things than you were passionate about when you launched the firm. And the theory of a rising tide lifts all boats, it’s like, you can do this yourself or let’s just build something bigger and better together. And just getting comfortable with the theory of you’ll own a smaller piece of the pie, but the pie is much more valuable than owning 100% or 80% of something that’s less valuable, and is going to take you in a different direction personally.

I always say we’re not in the business of making judgments for people. It’s up to them to define their goals, and then, we’ll help them execute on it. But, I really like that perspective. I agree, it’s not for everyone. What you did is extremely hard, it’s a risk, it’s a big swing. But, if you have the stomach for it, and you want to take the swing, to me there’s no better time to pursue that path than today.

Jason Fertitta:

I agree. And I could totally see a world over the next five years where some of these advisors that join us are bigger shareholders in this firm than me, and that would be great.

Louis Diamond:

Interesting.

Jason Fertitta:

I’m with you, not only do I agree with what you’re saying, to me, I’ve never thought about how much of this company do I own? I’ve thought about what is the percentage of the company that I own, and what is it worth? I could care less if it was 25%, 12.5%, 5%. What I care is, what is that slice worth?

Louis Diamond:

That’s a fun way to look at it. Jason, this has been really fun. This new series Build, Grow, and Transact, this is proof of concept, but we’re going to have to do a ton of these, because the richness of detail, and whenever we have breakaway guests, we’re talking to them in the beginning when they’re still finding their feet, everything’s new and fresh. They haven’t thought about or executed on M&A and taking on capital partners. But, I feel like this is the missing ingredient where it’s a playbook for how others can be better themselves, something to shoot towards. And I really appreciate your candor and transparency, and I’m very serious, we’ll have to do this again when you’re at 25 billion, and you have even more lessons, and I’m sure battle scars to share.

Jason Fertitta:

No doubt. I’m for sure open to doing that. And maybe in the meantime, I see the pictures behind your head there. I’d love to come visit you in Park City and hang out and ski, or play golf, or-

Louis Diamond:

You got it.

Jason Fertitta:

All right. Thanks for your time and thank you for having me.

Louis Diamond:

Thanks, Jason.

Mindy Diamond:

As a financial advisor, you hold yourself to the highest standards of integrity, honesty, and credibility. You are successful, because you take your professional responsibility seriously, and are dedicated to your clients, but are you living your best business life? Are your goals aligned with your firms, or could a better option exist? Should I Stay Or Should I Go is a book written with you in mind. It’s a self-guided journey that walks you through the key steps that we take with our advisor clients. This strategic thought process and roadmap to professional self-discovery is designed to help you ask the right questions, and think critically and objectively, whether you’re considering change or not. Learn how to get your copy at diamond-consultants.com/thebook.

View Details

Michael Smith—Managing Partner and Founder, Emerald AdvisorsMichael Smith shares how a client-first philosophy, niche specialization, and independence helped Emerald Advisors grow from $385mm to more than $1B in assets.

In SummaryWhat happens when an advisor builds a business around client service rather than operational efficiency?

Jason Diamond speaks with Michael Smith, Founder and Managing Partner of Emerald Advisors, about the path from a successful Merrill practice to an independent RIA that has grown from approximately $385mm to more than $1B in assets. Along the way, Michael shares the story of being told he was “overservicing” clients, why that moment became a catalyst for independence, and how a highly specialized service model fueled the firm’s growth. Drawing on lessons from a 24-year Navy career, Michael offers a perspective on leadership, specialization, client care, and what it takes to build a durable business in today’s wealth management landscape.

The StorylineGrowth is often viewed as the result of marketing, referrals, acquisitions, or scale.

Michael Smith sees it differently.

After building a successful practice at Merrill, Michael found himself at odds with the constraints of the traditional wirehouse model. What ultimately stood out wasn’t compensation, technology, or platform capabilities. It was a philosophical difference around client service.

When he was told he was spending too much time helping clients navigate tax planning, equity compensation, and other financial decisions outside the traditional scope of investment management, he began to question whether the model aligned with the way he wanted to serve families.

That realization eventually led him to launch Emerald Advisors in late 2019.

The firm started with roughly 85 clients and approximately $385mm in assets. Today, Emerald serves more than 225 families and oversees more than $1B in assets.

Throughout the conversation, Michael reflects on the lessons learned from building an independent firm, developing a niche around concentrated stock positions and executive compensation, navigating custodial and technology decisions, and creating a culture rooted in accountability and service.

Underlying it all is a simple belief: when firms become highly intentional about who they serve and how they serve them, growth often becomes the outcome rather than the objective.

Topics Covered* Merrill breakaways and independence * Client service as a growth driver * Building an RIA * RIA growth and scalability * Organic growth strategies * Concentrated stock positions and equity compensation planning * Ideal client personas and niche specialization * Schwab and Fidelity custody relationships * Advisor succession and enterprise value * Navy leadership principles in wealth management * The rise of mega RIAs * Advisor technology and infrastructure

> Download a transcript of this episode…

Listen and Learn Highlights for AdvisorsWhy did being accused of “overservicing” clients become a turning point? (08:15)
Michael explains how a conversation with management revealed a deeper misalignment between his client-service philosophy and the wirehouse model.

What does client service look like beyond portfolio management? (11:30)
The discussion explores how tax planning, equity compensation guidance, and proactive coordination can deepen client relationships.

Why can specialization accelerate growth? (15:45)
Michael shares why serving a defined niche often creates stronger referrals, greater expertise, and clearer positioning.

How has the RIA landscape evolved since 2019? (20:30)
Michael reflects on the rise of mega RIAs, changing technology capabilities, and why he believes independent firms still have significant advantages.

What role do custodians really play in an independent business? (23:15)
Michael discusses his experience working with Schwab and Fidelity and why he views custodians as strategic partners rather than competitors.

Is the wirehouse model still the right fit for some advisors? (26:45)
The conversation challenges the assumption that independence is the best path for everyone and explores the realities of running a business.

Does reaching $1 billion in assets actually change anything? (32:45)
Michael offers a practical perspective on growth, success, and why asset milestones can be misleading.

What can advisors learn from the “steamboat” philosophy? (37:15)
Drawing on his Navy experience, Michael shares a leadership framework that continues to shape how he approaches business building and decision-making.

Key TakeawaysExceptional client service can become a meaningful competitive advantage when it extends beyond investment management.

Independence gave Michael the flexibility to build a service model that aligned with his philosophy rather than adapting his philosophy to fit the platform.

Developing a niche around executive compensation and concentrated stock positions helped accelerate Emerald’s growth.

The ability to make technology, custodial, and operational decisions quickly remains a significant advantage for independent firms.

Not every advisor should be independent. Running a business requires a different set of skills and responsibilities than serving clients alone.

Growth milestones are useful, but they do not define success. Michael believes success existed long before Emerald reached $1 billion in assets.

High-performing teams with a clear client focus often find that growth becomes a natural byproduct of execution.

https://youtu.be/RjzsMcC2DnY

Quotable Moments“I literally had to go back and Google the word overservicing.”

“Servicing the client is the most important thing that we can do today.”

“If you serve a niche and you’re very good at that niche, that word gets around.”

“Growth becomes the outcome.”

FAQs Can an advisor really “over-service” clients?

The discussion explores the tension between efficiency and depth of service. While some business models prioritize scale and consistency, others are built around solving a broader range of client problems. The right answer often depends on the advisor’s philosophy and business model.

Does specialization still matter in a relationship business?

Michael argues that developing expertise in a specific area can accelerate growth by making referrals easier and helping advisors become known for solving a particular set of problems.

What actually changes when an advisor becomes independent?

Beyond economics, independence often creates more flexibility around client service, technology, processes, and business decisions. At the same time, advisors assume responsibility for running the business itself.

Is full independence the right path for every advisor?

No. Michael acknowledges that many advisors benefit from the structure, support, and resources available within traditional firms. Independence offers flexibility, but it also introduces complexity and responsibility.

How should advisors think about the $1 billion milestone?

Michael views asset milestones as useful benchmarks but not measures of success. In his view, business quality, client outcomes, and sustainability matter more than any specific asset number.

What role does an ideal client persona play in growth?

Rather than trying to serve everyone, Emerald built its business around a clearly defined client profile. Michael believes that focus improves service, creates operational consistency, and supports organic growth.

How can advisors balance growth with client service?

One of the central themes of the episode is that growth and service are not necessarily competing objectives. In some cases, a differentiated service model becomes the reason a business grows.

The discussion explores the tension between efficiency and depth of service. While some business models prioritize scale and consistency, others are built around solving a broader range of client problems. The right answer often depends on the advisor’s philosophy and business model.

Michael argues that developing expertise in a specific area can accelerate growth by making referrals easier and helping advisors become known for solving a particular set of problems.

Beyond economics, independence often creates more flexibility around client service, technology, processes, and business decisions. At the same time, advisors assume responsibility for running the business itself.

No. Michael acknowledges that many advisors benefit from the structure, support, and resources available within traditional firms. Independence offers flexibility, but it also introduces complexity and responsibility.

Michael views asset milestones as useful benchmarks but not measures of success. In his view, business quality, client outcomes, and sustainability matter more than any specific asset number.

Rather than trying to serve everyone, Emerald built its business around a clearly defined client profile. Michael believes that focus improves service, creates operational consistency, and supports organic growth.

One of the central themes of the episode is that growth and service are not necessarily competing objectives. In some cases, a differentiated service model becomes the reason a business grows.

Related Resources* The Transitioning Advisor’s Lament: Things I Wish I Knew Before * Freedom vs. Familiarity: Is it Worth Disrupting Comfort for Something That Might Be Better? * IBD vs. RIA Revisited: Two Independent Pathways for Advisors to Consider * Advisor Transition Report 2026

Guest BioMichael Smith, CPWA® is the Founder and Managing Partner of Emerald Advisors, an independent wealth management firm overseeing more than $1 billion in assets for affluent families, executives, and business owners with complex planning needs.

Mike entered the wealth management industry in 2005 after a distinguished 24-year career in the United States Navy, where he served both as an enlisted sailor in the Submarine Force and later as a Limited Duty Officer aboard USS Abraham Lincoln and on major staffs around the world. He earned a Bachelor of Science in Management and an MBA with dual emphases in Finance & Accounting and International Business.

Throughout his career, Mike has been known for his commitment to comprehensive planning, helping clients navigate complex issues involving concentrated stock positions, executive compensation, tax strategy, estate planning, philanthropy, and multi-generational wealth transfer. His client-first approach and passion for education have helped Emerald Advisors grow from a startup firm in 2019 to a nationally recognized RIA serving more than 225 families.

Outside of the office, Mike is an avid ultrarunner, golfer, lifelong learner, and dedicated advocate for children’s health initiatives. He is a current member of the Legacy Council at Seattle Children’s Hospital and has served in leadership and board roles supporting the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation, the Barbara Davis Center for Diabetes, the ALS Association, and the Alyssa Burnett Adult Life Center. He is also the proud father of Kat Smith.

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

View the transcript of this episode…
From “Overservicing” Clients to Building a $1B RIA: A Merrill Breakaway Story

A conversation with Jason Diamond and Michael Smith, Managing Partner and Founder of Emerald Advisors.

Jason Diamond:

Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is From “Overservicing” Clients to Building a $1B RIA: A Merrill Breakaway Story. It’s a conversation with Michael Smith, managing partner and founder of Emerald Advisors. I’m Jason Diamond and this is the Diamond Podcast for financial advisors.

Mindy Diamond:

At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned and, each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education driven and based on building relationships starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at (908) 879-1002.

Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual advisor transition report. It’s the award-winning, data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport.

Jason Diamond:

Growth is often viewed as the result of better marketing, stronger referrals, a larger team and even acquisition and that’s all true yet growth can be the byproduct of something else entirely. For example, Michael Smith built a successful practice at Merrill then, one day, he was told he was spending too much time with his clients, or his management put it over-servicing clients. For Michael, that wasn’t a warning sign about his approach, it was a signal that he might have outgrown the firm and the model. Today, Michael is the founder and managing partner of Emerald Advisors, the independent RIA he launched in late 2019 with roughly 385 million in assets and 85 client relationships. Less than seven years later, the firm has grown to more than a billion in assets while remaining deeply focused on a highly-specialized client base and an unusually hands-on service model.

What makes this story particularly interesting isn’t just the growth, it’s the thinking behind it. Michael’s perspective was shaped long before he entered wealth management. After serving more than two decades in the Navy, he brought a leadership philosophy centered on accountability, discipline and what he calls steamboat people, those who keep moving forward regardless of conditions, that mindset continues to influence how he builds his team, serves clients and evaluates opportunities. In this episode, we discuss the decision to leave Merrill, the realities of launching a fully independent RIA, why specialization can accelerate growth, the evolving role of custodians and technology and why he believes exceptional client service remains one of the industry’s most durable competitive advantages. Because Michael’s experience suggests that growth isn’t always the result of finding more opportunities, sometimes it’s the result of creating the freedom to execute the vision you already had so let’s jump in.

Michael, thank you so much for joining us today. For starters, can you walk us through your background and what brought you to the world of wealth management?

Michael Smith:

Jason, thank you so much for the opportunity to be here today, I do listen to the podcast a lot especially before I left Mother Merrill. But my background and how I got into financial services is really distinct because I was on the board of JDRF back in the day and the national sponsor for JDRF was UBS PaineWebber and they’re like, “Mike, why don’t you be a financial advisor?” And my master’s degree was actually a finance and accounting in portfolio management because I’ve managed my own portfolio for years and years and so, when I couldn’t get a job, I just fell into it because I couldn’t get a job and I needed a job. That was 21 years ago, Memorial Day so that’s how I got into this industry.

Jason Diamond:

It’s a unique background, it’s super interesting and I want to talk more about it. You mentioned Mother Merrill, we’ll certainly get there. Before we do, give us a little bit of context on the current business you operate, Emerald Advisors, any context you can share on size, number of staff, types of clients you serve would be great.

Michael Smith:

Sure. So, we launched Emerald in 2019, November 2019 with about 85 clients and you always talk about this on the podcast how scared it is to launch and go independent. And I would say we took over about 95% of our clients that we wanted to bring over and today we’re at about 230 clients, I think we have some onboarding right now, we have just over a billion of assets. So, we launched with the 85 clients and around 350, 385 million, now we’re over a billion.

Jason Diamond:

Good for you.

Michael Smith:

Thank you. And I launched with four employees and we’re now at 11. And I would give a shout-out to one of my key employees because, when I launched, I actually hired somebody that had no experience with us and that was really a good thing because that allowed that person to really focus on operations and back office stuff while my business partner Emily and I were able to focus on bringing on the clients and alleviating any issues that they may have or thought.

Jason Diamond:

So, meaning you hired somebody basically immediately upon launch to help you with the transition and with this next chapter?

Michael Smith:

Correct. I hired them before but they started the day we launched.

Jason Diamond:

Brilliant, I love it. Oh, let’s definitely talk more about that because I think that’s a great strategy for … You’re right, you said it in a joking manner now because you’re seven years past but it’s a very real fear that advisors have and I think it’s worth talking more about. I want to mention too you have, obviously, built this business and grown this business dramatically. I don’t want to make this episode about the pandemic but you moved the business at a, certainly, a unique time. Did it impact your growth at all? Did you feel like you hit a brick wall? Just curious about your thoughts.

Michael Smith:

No, Jason, that’s a great observation. I would venture to say that the pandemic was actually a good thing for us.

Jason Diamond:

Interesting.

Michael Smith:

And I say that because, all of a sudden, you could hit pause because everyone was relearning how to do business, how do we do client reviews, how do we communicate with clients in a environment. So, I think the pandemic allowed us to just really reset our expectations visiting with clients because I used to fly a lot because I have clients in 38 different states so this has actually been, not just good for me, but good for the industry because I think it’s reset our expectations that we don’t have to be every day with a client facing.

Jason Diamond:

I agree with that largely and it’s true of our business too, by the way, it’s certainly reshaped the way people expect to be communicated with. I think Zoom has become much more mainstream, phone calls and we’ve heard from many other advisors who say something similar. I was just curious because you moved so close to or if there was an impact but I get, honestly, I think you’re right, it allowed you to have this nice natural inflection point and almost like flipping a switch of a clean slate.

Michael Smith:

It allowed us to learn the processes too. So, we launched in November 1st, by March we were in lockdown and so it gave us the opportunity to take several months of just learning the processes of how to be an RIA, it was pretty good.

Jason Diamond:

Absolutely. So, one of the things you mentioned in that was the way in which you serve clients and I’d read something funny and I think it was around the time of your move. You were talking about that, Merrill, you had a manager who spoke about that you would overserve your clients, you serve clients too much, tell me about that.

Michael Smith:

That was such an interesting topic because I got called down to the ops officer’s office and they’re like, “Ugh, Mike.” And it brought my admin down with me and they’re like, “Mike, these reports that you’re taking care of your clients too much,” and I’m like, “What do you mean?” “Well, you’re overservicing them.” Jason, I literally had to go back and Google the word overservicing because I was like, “How do you overservice the client? I’m not making their bed.” It was just so funny to me that I got counsel for overservicing clients when we’re in a client-facing job and I think that was part of the catalyst.

Jason Diamond:

Tell me more about what they meant, you think.

Michael Smith:

Hindsight, I think they … I like to take care of people which means I’m very intuitive towards taxes, I understand how the tax code works, I understand how everything impacts their bottom line. So, when we’re doing deferred comp enrollments or 401(k) enrollments or I’m a big believer in Roth 401(k)s and backdoor Roths and I’ve been doing them for years, I think what Mother Merrill wanted at that time was us not to do that. And, again, nothing against Merrill, I get it but this is how they wanted us to act and I wasn’t in that mold, I was taking care of clients to a much deeper depth is how I would say it.

Jason Diamond:

And I think that speaks to you outgrew the model not necessarily the firm. I think Merrill does a lot of things really well, you would agree with that, I think given that you built 85 clients and 350 million in assets is nothing to sneeze at. But the model that it seems like you value client service and an integrated client service experience of that and the wirehouse model oftentimes doesn’t put a premium on that. Tell me about your ethos or your thoughts around client service today and what being independent enables you to do.

Michael Smith:

So, that’s an interesting observation because one of my clients actually just mentioned to me that the reason we’re growing so much is because of our service model and the fact that we deliver a tremendous amount of value over just portfolio management. I said my managers is in portfolio management, I don’t do that any longer, I have a staff that handles that for me but it’s really the servicing of the clients because they don’t know what we know and I think servicing the client is the most important thing that we can do today.

Jason Diamond:

Give me some examples of what you mean by servicing the client in a more holistic way. I agree with you, by the way, portfolio management, table stakes, financial planning, table stakes, tell me more about what you mean.

Michael Smith:

By that I mean we do a quarterly review on tax. So, a lot of people don’t understand how taxes work and how estimated taxes work. So, estimated taxes are January 1st to March 31st, January 1st to May 31st, January 1st to August 31st, that’s how you do your estimated tax payments, you figure out what that is. And for compensated employees where they have RSUs that come in at different times of the year or different grants or exercise their options at a different time, that can affect their estimated tax liability and I’m not big on giving Uncle Sam any more money than they have to have until they need it. And then everyone doesn’t understand how the penalties and interest works on the IRS.

And I’m big on the tax payments because that’s where we can add a lot of value for not a lot of time and we integrate it with our portfolio so we know what we’re doing with our gains. And I happen to reside in Washington State which has a long-term capital gains tax rate once you surpass about 270,000 of long-term capital gains. So, it’s super important for us to be aware of this and that’s how we service them. We also help them with their rebalancing of their 401(k)s, things that wirehouses cannot supposed to do, we are not supposed to be helping them with some of their aspects of life.

Jason Diamond:

Yup. That’s what I was alluding to earlier, it’s limitations on the model, not because they’re bad models, it’s just a different way, a different ethos around client service. You mentioned RSUs and corporate employees, I know that’s a niche you have is around concentrated stock positions and equity comp plans. I guess let me ask you two different questions around this. First of all, why that niche? Interested. And then, second of all, do you think a team needs to have a specialization to be competitive these days or do you think it’s okay just to be like, “My job is to be the best advisor and I want to service assets wherever those assets may come from?”

Michael Smith:

Another great observation. I’m going to address the niche first and foremost. I think, and I talked to R.J. Shook’s staff just recently, and having a niche gives you a specialization and it also accelerates your growth factor. If you serve a niche and you’re very good at that niche, then that word gets around. If you’re a jack of all trades, you can do lots of things but I don’t think you’re focused and you’re not hitting the right numbers that I like to see. And I think that would be my theme is the niche allows you to focus on a very specific type of ideal client, that’s a Schwab thing where you have an ideal client persona and our firm has an ideal client persona.

As far as having the equity comp, I absolutely was one of the teams at Merrill Lynch that was equity compensation designated, I managed a couple of plans. My exposure to that, Jason, I haven’t thought about this in a very long time, came from UBS where I had team members that were colleagues that were associated with the Nextel Sprint plan. And I always thought that you’re taking care of the top executives but, really, my background being in the military was how do we take care of the troops, the troops, I call them sailors, and how do we educate those sailors. And one of the things I’ve always said in my entire career in the military and I still say to this day is 50% of every bonus or a promotion or something like that should go to long-term savings.

So, I use that same mentality with RSUs, with stock options, with bonuses. Set that aside, let that grow because you’re not used to spending it and you will learn to spend what you make.

Jason Diamond:

I think that’s a great reason, it’s super smart and I love your explanation, it was a very simplistic way. Honestly, even I hadn’t thought about that around your niche, I think, becomes almost like a force multiplier for your own growth because it’s much easier to become the guy in X, Y, Z vertical than to be the guy in every financial advisor of America, across America. Let me ask you a follow-up question, you mentioned the ideal client persona. I spend a lot of time at our firm thinking about this as well, what does your ideal client persona look like. How do you think about an opportunity though that differs from that persona?

So, it’s great. Obviously, everybody, it’s easy, you get somebody who’s your perfect prospect, they walk in the front door, sign me up. But when you get something that’s not down the fairway for you, is it just I evaluate it on a one-off basis or are you super disciplined to that approach because it’s who your firm is?

Michael Smith:

I truly haven’t given that a whole lot of thought but I will tell you how I would handle that because I am handling it with some one-offs. I like the opportunity because you’re stretching your brain in that you’re thinking about how somebody else is reacting so you’d never know. So, I like it from a learning perspective but I also know it comes with a lot of other baggage, I’ll call it baggage, because, all of a sudden, they want to short the market, they want to go long-short strategies. So, all of a sudden, they’re not in our niche and, all of a sudden, they’re taking a lot of time, they’re draining our time so I think you got to be very careful about what you wish for. And there’s a lot of great advisors out there that will walk circles around these topics that I’m like, “Okay, I would rather refer somebody so they get the right experience than give them the wrong experience.”

Jason Diamond:

I absolutely love that answer. The bow you just put on it, I think, is the appropriate way in my mind to put a bow. At the end of the day, wouldn’t you rather service somebody more optimally even if you don’t believe it’s yourself, I agree with that. I want to ask you one more point on the client service piece. I was playing around on your website and, on your service model, you have health as a component of the client experience of your diagram. Why do you think health matters in a financial context?

Michael Smith:

I always believed in a healthy mind and a healthy body will bring so much joy to you and I think health is just part of your persona. If you don’t take care of yourself and your body and your mind, then it doesn’t matter what I do, I think you got to start with health. So, I’m very big on the executive physicals, I routinely require all of our staff to have an annual physical. And, again, they’re young people but you got to have these annual … I live and breathe going to see a doctor every year to do my annual physical, not because I think I’m pretty good health, I still run, I do a lot of things but I think your life starts with being healthy.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, it’s refreshing to hear that, no doubt. It’s funny to think about but 2019 is a long time ago now and, in RIA world, I almost think of it like dog years. You’ve been around the block now for a little while so I’m curious how have you seen this space change since you launched in 2019?

Michael Smith:

In 2019, I didn’t know what I was doing, I could barely get out a wet paper bag but I do think it’s changed dramatically. I would say the biggest thing I’ve seen in just the six and a half, almost seven years is the rise of the mega RIAs and how they’re going to shape the industry. Everyone talked about fee compression at Merrill Lynch. When I was at Merrill, we talked about fee compression, then they talked about robo-advisors and now they’re talking about artificial intelligence replacing advisors, I don’t believe that and I don’t think that’s going to happen in the RIA space. What I see the RIA space maturing is into these very big mega firms as well as these independent RIAs like myself that serve a very niche market where we can walk in our lane.

The ability to transact today is so much easier as an RIA than it was at a wirehouse as well because we have instant access to technology. My military background, my Navy background says make a decision right, wrong or different, if you don’t like it afterwards or you get new data, course change. So, in our industry, we can change on a notice. I hired a tech firm last year, I didn’t like the experience nine months into it, guess what, they’re not coming back. So, I can do that but you can’t do that at the bigger firms and even the bigger mega firms would have a hard time navigating a change just like that on a dime.

Jason Diamond:

You bring up an interesting point. To the extent you face competition, do you find yourself competing more against traditional wirehouse type firms or RIAs like yourself, mega caps RIAs? Are your clients attuned to any of this?

Michael Smith:

That’s an observation I haven’t thought of either there, Jason. I would say I don’t feel that I have a … I know there’s competition out there but we have a growth issue more than we have anything else so I don’t … I can’t take on the clients that want to become my clients so I’m not competing with people too much.

Jason Diamond:

A capacity issue, you mean?

Michael Smith:

Yeah, I have a capacity issue.

Jason Diamond:

I think you’re not alone in that. How can I even think about competition and the like when … A lot of advisors would probably say that. I want to talk more about the capacity situation but, before I do, let’s talk a little more about the RIA setup. Who do you custody with, remind us, and why or how did you arrive at that decision?

Michael Smith:

Yeah. So, when I launched, I went with Schwab, Schwab is a phenomenal partner, they helped me get a lot of stuff done, I couldn’t have done it without Schwab. During the pandemic, I realized that I should probably … So, remember, during the pandemic, we had a lot of issues with the banking industry, it was almost like a financial crisis but in a very compressed time. So, during the COVID, I decided to add Fidelity as another custodian so now I have two custodians and I opened accounts on both sides of the house but I like the custodians that are there to help you, they’re very good at what they do. I don’t even consider them a competitor and they aren’t competitors, they have their own branch so I don’t consider them competitors, I think they’re my partners and both Charles Schwab and Fidelity are good partners.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, I think that’s the healthy way to look at the custody relationship. That’s a very common approach, I think, is launching with one custodian and then adding a secondary custodian or a tertiary custodian down the line for one reason or another so I appreciate you sharing that because we get those types of nuts and bolts questions a lot so I figured I’d ask you. One last question on the setup and then we’ll shift gears. Has anything been a negative? So, you talked about leaving Mother Merrill behind and, Mother Merrill, we use it facetiously but obviously it implies a degree of comfort and the homeland so I’m curious if you miss anything.

Michael Smith:

I miss the camaraderie of being with a bunch of other folks. I mentioned this when I first launched, I mentioned it year over year with my team, the one thing that we miss as an RIA and, again, Dynasty has their benefits as well and the mega RIAs have their benefits but, if you’re a true independent like myself, we get to go to conferences that we want to and that’s a timing issue, really, a time constraint. But one thing Merrill and Morgan, JPMorgan, and the other big wirehouses have as well as the megas, they have the ability to put conferences together for their advisors or their administrators and have this education. That’s the one thing that, I think, would evolve in the RIA industry in the future as well. They’re not my competitors, they’re my business colleagues. And if we think of them as competitors, and a lot of people do because I don’t want to share my client information or what I do with my competitor because they may steal them, if you’re that insecure, then you’re probably not the right advisor in the first place.

Jason Diamond:

I don’t disagree with that. It’s interesting too, I hear two common answers to that question, not about Merrill but just about somebody who’s broken away, what do you miss about the captive firm world. Either on this podcast or just in conversations with advisors, brand comes up a lot and then the point you just raised. I’ll even hear like, “Hey, forget the conferences and the trainings, just being able to have an office where I’ve got eight other advisors on a row for me, it’s a little bit of a different setup than in the independent space,” and I think that’s just a reality of you take the good with the bad. And for other advisors, by the way, one of the things I want to ask you about to this point is do you believe that there are advisors that are just better served in the W2 traditional firm world or do you think that every advisor should be looking at the RIA space?

Michael Smith:

I think that wirehouse serves a great purpose and-

Jason Diamond:

Okay, me too.

Michael Smith:

… there’s a lot of great people that are great advisors in that wirehouse, they need the structure. What I hadn’t alluded to is, and I mentioned this to a former manager from Merrill Lynch of mine just recently, actually, I was like, “I don’t think advisors realize what it takes to run a business.” I’m not trying to sugarcoat it, running an RIA is hard work, it takes a lot of your time day in and day out to run a business as well as taking care of and servicing your clients so I do think the wirehouse venue is the right way to go. And, Jason, I want to go back to one other thing about your identity. I launched as the Smith Group because that’s what I was known at Merrill Lynch. Within three or four months, I changed that name to a firm because I did not want to be associated with it.

So, when you’re at one of the wirehouses, you’re known as your team name or something of that sort, I didn’t want to be known as that, I wanted to be known as Emerald Advisors not the Smith Group because, all of a sudden, you have a single point of failure. So, brand identity, it’s not so unique inside the wirehouse because it’s a team name versus Merrill or Morgan Stanley or something like that.

Jason Diamond:

It’s a good segue because I’ll tell you where my mind goes when you bring that up. My mind goes is you’re smart in a way that you might not even realize or maybe you do realize which is that, if and when it ever comes time to sell this business, it is probably more valuable without your name attached to it or maybe not. But in some way, shape or form, as an RIA, you have an obligation to be thinking about that or it’s probably on your radar, maybe not an obligation. Have you given an ounce of thought to M&A either acquiring businesses, growing in that way or, ultimately, when you succeed out of this business and what the RIA space enables you to do?

Michael Smith:

To answer that question, yes. Everyone’s thinking about merger and acquisition, I think about succession planning from day one. I actually thought about I’m a big team person, I come from the submarine force where everyone is a key player on a submarine, every single person has a job and responsibility on a nuclear submarine. So, inside the financial services industry, I know Merrill Lynch was very big on teaming, I understand Morgan Stanley is as well because teaming gives them a breadth of responsibility where the responsibilities are shared. So, mergers and acquisitions or selling my business, I think, if you’re not thinking about that … And I’m not thinking about selling my business because that’s a distraction to me. If I needed the money, then I would’ve went to a wirehouse and that’s okay, you monetize your life’s work.

Today, I’m all about what’s right for the client, what’s right for my team and what’s right for where I want to be in the next 10 to 20 years. So, I am growing, I do want to grow, I’m looking at opening offices in probably three locations in the next 24 months or so.

Jason Diamond:

Well, that’s what I was going to say, plenty of advisors I think would say the same, I have a lot of runway. But what about the other side of this equation which is you’ve had tremendous organic growth, you’ve tripled your client base, you’ve more than tripled the asset base, have you thought about acquisition as a mean to jet fuel the inorganic growth side of things?

Michael Smith:

I have but not in the typical sense that you’re looking at as buying a book of business. I want to partner with like-minded advisors that share that common thread of taking care of clients where you can serve as their trusted counsel and sit in the meetings with their attorneys and sit in the meetings with the accountants and give them sage counsel that you can only do because you’ve been with the family for 20 years. You know this family and that, not always, but I think that’s missed a lot in other firms.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, I think that’s fair. I just thought of something else that you brought up. You brought Dynasty so I’m going to ask … I’m going to pull on this thread. That implies to me that you’re at least loosely aware of the supportive independence models that are out there yet you chose a very independent, autonomous path, why?

Michael Smith:

Because I didn’t know what I was doing.

Jason Diamond:

Fair.

Michael Smith:

Let’s be honest, I like Dynasty, I talked with Dynasty when I left. I talked to them all, I talked to Rockefeller, I talked to Morgan, I talked to Dynasty and then, when push came to shove, I wanted to be Mike Smith and launch my own firm and learn. And I will tell you, you learn drinking through a fire hose and we did that, we learned, I know the mistakes. What I didn’t want to do is just go to someplace where this is the stuff you’re going to have to use. So, I think Dynasty is a great launching platform, I think there’s other ones out there that are similar to Dynasty or the Rockefellers or the Morgans, it’s truly what you’re trying to achieve in life. What do you want for you and your clients and I always put my clients before me because I’ve always had this lifelong thing of, you do the right thing, you’re going to get taken care of.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah. And that’s a very common analysis, by the way, and it’s very common too for big advisors like yourself to say I did my homework across all of those different categories. I looked at the traditional wirehouses and regional firms and boutique firms, I looked at the independent broker dealers, I looked at the support platforms and the aggregators and the roll-ups and here’s ultimately what I landed on and why. Did you always know that though or was that something that it took you a diligence process to figure out? There was plenty of advisors, by the way, who come to us and they’re like, “I knew for the last five years that I was sitting there I was launching an RIA someday.”

Michael Smith:

Yeah. I did not know that and, to be honest with you, hindsight, I think one of those partners probably could have made me a little bit better at first because then I could have focused on clients versus focusing on, hey, how to open a business, who’s your technology … We talked about custodians and some other things but we didn’t talk about technology, how do you go find that technology. Where’s your email address come from? Who’s your chief compliance officer? When it resides on you, you got to look in the mirror. So, I think those parties out there that provide that for brand-new advisors launching could be very beneficial. I had in my mind what I needed to do and I knew I’m very frugal so mine boiled down to how much money I wanted to spend, to be honest with you.

Jason Diamond:

I think it is a cost benefit analysis, it is. It’s absolutely … Because if you list the functions of a support platform on paper and you showed it to somebody who didn’t know the industry, they would say, “Why on earth wouldn’t you do this? They’re taking off your plate compliance and tech and custody and the like,” and the answer is because there’s a cost associated with it and plenty of advisors decide what you decide, I wanted … Or I just wanted a greater degree of autonomy and freedom, to your point, the name on the door piece, I wanted this to be mine.

Michael Smith:

And, Jason, I think it also goes to the uncertainty. I had never done anything since Navy, financial advising and then launching. So, for me, I was launching with four employees I had to take care of and here I was going to hire a third party that I was going to have to spend X amount on and I didn’t even know what my income was going to be. That’s different if you’re a multi-billion dollar FA coming out of a wirehouse, the monetary dynamics are different.

Jason Diamond:

Agreed. Okay, here’s a good one for you. We get this concept from advisors, from firms, from private equity that a billion dollars in assets is like this magic number in our industry. Do you feel like anything’s changed now that you’re at a billion and what’s the next chapter for Emerald Advisors? Is it just continuing on this steady trajectory and serving clients and trust that everything else comes with that?

Michael Smith:

I go back and forth on a billion, everyone thinks that’s the right number, the biggest number that you need but I think it’s just an arbitrary numbers because it didn’t define who I was. And a lot of people define success at a billion, they define success that you’re a successful firm at a billion. I think I was a successful firm at 300 million, I was a successful financial advisor with 20 clients in 2005. I would say a billion is a multiplier, what I would tell new advisors out there today is gather assets. The more assets you have, the more revenue you generate. The more revenue you generate, the more money you can put in your pocket which means the longer you can stay in the industry. The problem with the industry is an attrition problem, not anything else. So, assets just give us the ability to have revenue which gives us the ability to grow.

Jason Diamond:

And is that the plan? Keep adding assets, keep growing one client at a time with the focus though, obviously, on what makes you which is a very client-centric service model.

Michael Smith:

Correct. There’s a lot of things I want to do in the next couple of years and expanding our footprint is our biggest one with the right partners and then just keep adding. I have a business development officer that I’m probably offer a job to here pretty soon and things are going well.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, that’s great. You mentioned the tech stack and the other components of the business and I hear you on the frugal cost-benefit analysis. But who did you turn to for some of those early decisions, was it Schwab primarily who helped hold your hand through that?

Michael Smith:

Schwab was very good at helping me identify the tech stack at first and the tech stack is actually the one consistent, there’s a lot of things I’ve been consistent on but tech is one that I’ve stayed with them. I launched with RightSize, now they’re Advisory, they’re very good, they do the right job for us and I’m big on cybersecurity. So, tech was helpful from Schwab, Schwab helped us with that.

Jason Diamond:

So, we spoke a little bit about your naval experience but, I’m curious, can you tell us how has your naval experience shaped your perception or your experience in wealth management?

Michael Smith:

My Navy path was a lot different than many officers. I served 12 years as an enlisted person before I got my direct commission as a Mustang officer, typically called limited duty officers or loud, dumb and obnoxious as I like to say. But that experience gave me a unique perspective because I was able to be the enlisted side and officer which are the workers and then the management side so I had both experiences which was unique. When I was commissioned, Admiral Jerry Ellis, a submarine admiral that commissioned me, heard this lesson to the podium, he was just talking about me in this point but he said, “There are three kinds of people in every organization. You have rowboat people who need to be pushed, you have sailboat people who move whenever the conditions are favorable and then there’s steamboat people, they move continuously through calm or storm.” And he said, “This is Ensign Michael Smith,” he said, “Make your course.”

And that’s always stood with me because you do have those three types of people in life. You got people that are just … They’re robo people, they go until they get tired. You got sailboat people that go wherever the wind blows them and then you got steamboat people that chart their own course. I would say for advisors out there make your course or just be happy with what you’re doing. But for some of us hard chargers, I think that analogy has stayed with me my entire career.

Jason Diamond:

It’s fantastic. I love the analogy, great naval tie in also. Thanks for sharing that. We got time for one more question. You have a fascinating background, a fascinating path to the industry, obviously, an incredibly disciplined approach around client service, any parting thoughts, words of wisdom especially as it relates to growth? That’s what strikes me most about your story is the growth that your move unlocked and that’s what every advisor who listens to our show is looking for.

Michael Smith:

I’m going to give another plug to Schwab on this. We actually were fortunate and I got their consulting group to come in right afterwards and I’m a big believer in having offsite. So, I’ve had an offsite, two offsites a year for my team and it’s the entire team unlike the wirehouses where you don’t take your admins and stuff like that. I take my entire team to an offsite and we group up on what we’re trying to achieve and have goals and objectives for the year. Schwab allowed us to use their consultants and we came up with our ideal client persona. Teams or firms that have this model become high performing. When you become high performing, growth becomes the outcome. I couldn’t do anything but grow. Jason, I couldn’t not grow because I had this ideal client persona, I knew how I was going to do it, it was measurable. So, growth becomes the outcome and, if you hold people responsible, then we’re all going to grow together and it’s a fun outcome.

Jason Diamond:

Fantastic, it’s a great place to end. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us, I can’t wait to see what the next chapter holds for Emerald, this has been a lot of fun.

Michael Smith:

Jason, thank you so much. I appreciate everything you do for the industry as well.

Mindy Diamond:

As a financial advisor, you hold yourself to the highest standards of integrity, honesty and credibility. You are successful because you take your professional responsibility seriously and are dedicated to your clients. But are you living your best business life? Are your goals aligned with your firms or could a better option exist? Should I Stay or Should I Go? Is a book written with you in mind? It’s a self-guided journey that walks you through the key steps that we take with our advisor clients. This strategic thought process and roadmap to professional self-discovery is designed to help you ask the right questions and think critically and objectively whether you’re considering change or not. Learn how to get your copy at diamond-consultants.com/thebook.

From “Overservicing” Clients to Building a $1B RIA: A Merrill Breakaway Story

A conversation with Jason Diamond and Michael Smith, Managing Partner and Founder of Emerald Advisors.

Jason Diamond:

Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is From “Overservicing” Clients to Building a $1B RIA: A Merrill Breakaway Story. It’s a conversation with Michael Smith, managing partner and founder of Emerald Advisors. I’m Jason Diamond and this is the Diamond Podcast for financial advisors.

Mindy Diamond:

At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned and, each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education driven and based on building relationships starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at (908) 879-1002.

Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual advisor transition report. It’s the award-winning, data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport.

Jason Diamond:

Growth is often viewed as the result of better marketing, stronger referrals, a larger team and even acquisition and that’s all true yet growth can be the byproduct of something else entirely. For example, Michael Smith built a successful practice at Merrill then, one day, he was told he was spending too much time with his clients, or his management put it over-servicing clients. For Michael, that wasn’t a warning sign about his approach, it was a signal that he might have outgrown the firm and the model. Today, Michael is the founder and managing partner of Emerald Advisors, the independent RIA he launched in late 2019 with roughly 385 million in assets and 85 client relationships. Less than seven years later, the firm has grown to more than a billion in assets while remaining deeply focused on a highly-specialized client base and an unusually hands-on service model.

What makes this story particularly interesting isn’t just the growth, it’s the thinking behind it. Michael’s perspective was shaped long before he entered wealth management. After serving more than two decades in the Navy, he brought a leadership philosophy centered on accountability, discipline and what he calls steamboat people, those who keep moving forward regardless of conditions, that mindset continues to influence how he builds his team, serves clients and evaluates opportunities. In this episode, we discuss the decision to leave Merrill, the realities of launching a fully independent RIA, why specialization can accelerate growth, the evolving role of custodians and technology and why he believes exceptional client service remains one of the industry’s most durable competitive advantages. Because Michael’s experience suggests that growth isn’t always the result of finding more opportunities, sometimes it’s the result of creating the freedom to execute the vision you already had so let’s jump in.

Michael, thank you so much for joining us today. For starters, can you walk us through your background and what brought you to the world of wealth management?

Michael Smith:

Jason, thank you so much for the opportunity to be here today, I do listen to the podcast a lot especially before I left Mother Merrill. But my background and how I got into financial services is really distinct because I was on the board of JDRF back in the day and the national sponsor for JDRF was UBS PaineWebber and they’re like, “Mike, why don’t you be a financial advisor?” And my master’s degree was actually a finance and accounting in portfolio management because I’ve managed my own portfolio for years and years and so, when I couldn’t get a job, I just fell into it because I couldn’t get a job and I needed a job. That was 21 years ago, Memorial Day so that’s how I got into this industry.

Jason Diamond:

It’s a unique background, it’s super interesting and I want to talk more about it. You mentioned Mother Merrill, we’ll certainly get there. Before we do, give us a little bit of context on the current business you operate, Emerald Advisors, any context you can share on size, number of staff, types of clients you serve would be great.

Michael Smith:

Sure. So, we launched Emerald in 2019, November 2019 with about 85 clients and you always talk about this on the podcast how scared it is to launch and go independent. And I would say we took over about 95% of our clients that we wanted to bring over and today we’re at about 230 clients, I think we have some onboarding right now, we have just over a billion of assets. So, we launched with the 85 clients and around 350, 385 million, now we’re over a billion.

Jason Diamond:

Good for you.

Michael Smith:

Thank you. And I launched with four employees and we’re now at 11. And I would give a shout-out to one of my key employees because, when I launched, I actually hired somebody that had no experience with us and that was really a good thing because that allowed that person to really focus on operations and back office stuff while my business partner Emily and I were able to focus on bringing on the clients and alleviating any issues that they may have or thought.

Jason Diamond:

So, meaning you hired somebody basically immediately upon launch to help you with the transition and with this next chapter?

Michael Smith:

Correct. I hired them before but they started the day we launched.

Jason Diamond:

Brilliant, I love it. Oh, let’s definitely talk more about that because I think that’s a great strategy for … You’re right, you said it in a joking manner now because you’re seven years past but it’s a very real fear that advisors have and I think it’s worth talking more about. I want to mention too you have, obviously, built this business and grown this business dramatically. I don’t want to make this episode about the pandemic but you moved the business at a, certainly, a unique time. Did it impact your growth at all? Did you feel like you hit a brick wall? Just curious about your thoughts.

Michael Smith:

No, Jason, that’s a great observation. I would venture to say that the pandemic was actually a good thing for us.

Jason Diamond:

Interesting.

Michael Smith:

And I say that because, all of a sudden, you could hit pause because everyone was relearning how to do business, how do we do client reviews, how do we communicate with clients in a environment. So, I think the pandemic allowed us to just really reset our expectations visiting with clients because I used to fly a lot because I have clients in 38 different states so this has actually been, not just good for me, but good for the industry because I think it’s reset our expectations that we don’t have to be every day with a client facing.

Jason Diamond:

I agree with that largely and it’s true of our business too, by the way, it’s certainly reshaped the way people expect to be communicated with. I think Zoom has become much more mainstream, phone calls and we’ve heard from many other advisors who say something similar. I was just curious because you moved so close to or if there was an impact but I get, honestly, I think you’re right, it allowed you to have this nice natural inflection point and almost like flipping a switch of a clean slate.

Michael Smith:

It allowed us to learn the processes too. So, we launched in November 1st, by March we were in lockdown and so it gave us the opportunity to take several months of just learning the processes of how to be an RIA, it was pretty good.

Jason Diamond:

Absolutely. So, one of the things you mentioned in that was the way in which you serve clients and I’d read something funny and I think it was around the time of your move. You were talking about that, Merrill, you had a manager who spoke about that you would overserve your clients, you serve clients too much, tell me about that.

Michael Smith:

That was such an interesting topic because I got called down to the ops officer’s office and they’re like, “Ugh, Mike.” And it brought my admin down with me and they’re like, “Mike, these reports that you’re taking care of your clients too much,” and I’m like, “What do you mean?” “Well, you’re overservicing them.” Jason, I literally had to go back and Google the word overservicing because I was like, “How do you overservice the client? I’m not making their bed.” It was just so funny to me that I got counsel for overservicing clients when we’re in a client-facing job and I think that was part of the catalyst.

Jason Diamond:

Tell me more about what they meant, you think.

Michael Smith:

Hindsight, I think they … I like to take care of people which means I’m very intuitive towards taxes, I understand how the tax code works, I understand how everything impacts their bottom line. So, when we’re doing deferred comp enrollments or 401(k) enrollments or I’m a big believer in Roth 401(k)s and backdoor Roths and I’ve been doing them for years, I think what Mother Merrill wanted at that time was us not to do that. And, again, nothing against Merrill, I get it but this is how they wanted us to act and I wasn’t in that mold, I was taking care of clients to a much deeper depth is how I would say it.

Jason Diamond:

And I think that speaks to you outgrew the model not necessarily the firm. I think Merrill does a lot of things really well, you would agree with that, I think given that you built 85 clients and 350 million in assets is nothing to sneeze at. But the model that it seems like you value client service and an integrated client service experience of that and the wirehouse model oftentimes doesn’t put a premium on that. Tell me about your ethos or your thoughts around client service today and what being independent enables you to do.

Michael Smith:

So, that’s an interesting observation because one of my clients actually just mentioned to me that the reason we’re growing so much is because of our service model and the fact that we deliver a tremendous amount of value over just portfolio management. I said my managers is in portfolio management, I don’t do that any longer, I have a staff that handles that for me but it’s really the servicing of the clients because they don’t know what we know and I think servicing the client is the most important thing that we can do today.

Jason Diamond:

Give me some examples of what you mean by servicing the client in a more holistic way. I agree with you, by the way, portfolio management, table stakes, financial planning, table stakes, tell me more about what you mean.

Michael Smith:

By that I mean we do a quarterly review on tax. So, a lot of people don’t understand how taxes work and how estimated taxes work. So, estimated taxes are January 1st to March 31st, January 1st to May 31st, January 1st to August 31st, that’s how you do your estimated tax payments, you figure out what that is. And for compensated employees where they have RSUs that come in at different times of the year or different grants or exercise their options at a different time, that can affect their estimated tax liability and I’m not big on giving Uncle Sam any more money than they have to have until they need it. And then everyone doesn’t understand how the penalties and interest works on the IRS.

And I’m big on the tax payments because that’s where we can add a lot of value for not a lot of time and we integrate it with our portfolio so we know what we’re doing with our gains. And I happen to reside in Washington State which has a long-term capital gains tax rate once you surpass about 270,000 of long-term capital gains. So, it’s super important for us to be aware of this and that’s how we service them. We also help them with their rebalancing of their 401(k)s, things that wirehouses cannot supposed to do, we are not supposed to be helping them with some of their aspects of life.

Jason Diamond:

Yup. That’s what I was alluding to earlier, it’s limitations on the model, not because they’re bad models, it’s just a different way, a different ethos around client service. You mentioned RSUs and corporate employees, I know that’s a niche you have is around concentrated stock positions and equity comp plans. I guess let me ask you two different questions around this. First of all, why that niche? Interested. And then, second of all, do you think a team needs to have a specialization to be competitive these days or do you think it’s okay just to be like, “My job is to be the best advisor and I want to service assets wherever those assets may come from?”

Michael Smith:

Another great observation. I’m going to address the niche first and foremost. I think, and I talked to R.J. Shook’s staff just recently, and having a niche gives you a specialization and it also accelerates your growth factor. If you serve a niche and you’re very good at that niche, then that word gets around. If you’re a jack of all trades, you can do lots of things but I don’t think you’re focused and you’re not hitting the right numbers that I like to see. And I think that would be my theme is the niche allows you to focus on a very specific type of ideal client, that’s a Schwab thing where you have an ideal client persona and our firm has an ideal client persona.

As far as having the equity comp, I absolutely was one of the teams at Merrill Lynch that was equity compensation designated, I managed a couple of plans. My exposure to that, Jason, I haven’t thought about this in a very long time, came from UBS where I had team members that were colleagues that were associated with the Nextel Sprint plan. And I always thought that you’re taking care of the top executives but, really, my background being in the military was how do we take care of the troops, the troops, I call them sailors, and how do we educate those sailors. And one of the things I’ve always said in my entire career in the military and I still say to this day is 50% of every bonus or a promotion or something like that should go to long-term savings.

So, I use that same mentality with RSUs, with stock options, with bonuses. Set that aside, let that grow because you’re not used to spending it and you will learn to spend what you make.

Jason Diamond:

I think that’s a great reason, it’s super smart and I love your explanation, it was a very simplistic way. Honestly, even I hadn’t thought about that around your niche, I think, becomes almost like a force multiplier for your own growth because it’s much easier to become the guy in X, Y, Z vertical than to be the guy in every financial advisor of America, across America. Let me ask you a follow-up question, you mentioned the ideal client persona. I spend a lot of time at our firm thinking about this as well, what does your ideal client persona look like. How do you think about an opportunity though that differs from that persona?

So, it’s great. Obviously, everybody, it’s easy, you get somebody who’s your perfect prospect, they walk in the front door, sign me up. But when you get something that’s not down the fairway for you, is it just I evaluate it on a one-off basis or are you super disciplined to that approach because it’s who your firm is?

Michael Smith:

I truly haven’t given that a whole lot of thought but I will tell you how I would handle that because I am handling it with some one-offs. I like the opportunity because you’re stretching your brain in that you’re thinking about how somebody else is reacting so you’d never know. So, I like it from a learning perspective but I also know it comes with a lot of other baggage, I’ll call it baggage, because, all of a sudden, they want to short the market, they want to go long-short strategies. So, all of a sudden, they’re not in our niche and, all of a sudden, they’re taking a lot of time, they’re draining our time so I think you got to be very careful about what you wish for. And there’s a lot of great advisors out there that will walk circles around these topics that I’m like, “Okay, I would rather refer somebody so they get the right experience than give them the wrong experience.”

Jason Diamond:

I absolutely love that answer. The bow you just put on it, I think, is the appropriate way in my mind to put a bow. At the end of the day, wouldn’t you rather service somebody more optimally even if you don’t believe it’s yourself, I agree with that. I want to ask you one more point on the client service piece. I was playing around on your website and, on your service model, you have health as a component of the client experience of your diagram. Why do you think health matters in a financial context?

Michael Smith:

I always believed in a healthy mind and a healthy body will bring so much joy to you and I think health is just part of your persona. If you don’t take care of yourself and your body and your mind, then it doesn’t matter what I do, I think you got to start with health. So, I’m very big on the executive physicals, I routinely require all of our staff to have an annual physical. And, again, they’re young people but you got to have these annual … I live and breathe going to see a doctor every year to do my annual physical, not because I think I’m pretty good health, I still run, I do a lot of things but I think your life starts with being healthy.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, it’s refreshing to hear that, no doubt. It’s funny to think about but 2019 is a long time ago now and, in RIA world, I almost think of it like dog years. You’ve been around the block now for a little while so I’m curious how have you seen this space change since you launched in 2019?

Michael Smith:

In 2019, I didn’t know what I was doing, I could barely get out a wet paper bag but I do think it’s changed dramatically. I would say the biggest thing I’ve seen in just the six and a half, almost seven years is the rise of the mega RIAs and how they’re going to shape the industry. Everyone talked about fee compression at Merrill Lynch. When I was at Merrill, we talked about fee compression, then they talked about robo-advisors and now they’re talking about artificial intelligence replacing advisors, I don’t believe that and I don’t think that’s going to happen in the RIA space. What I see the RIA space maturing is into these very big mega firms as well as these independent RIAs like myself that serve a very niche market where we can walk in our lane.

The ability to transact today is so much easier as an RIA than it was at a wirehouse as well because we have instant access to technology. My military background, my Navy background says make a decision right, wrong or different, if you don’t like it afterwards or you get new data, course change. So, in our industry, we can change on a notice. I hired a tech firm last year, I didn’t like the experience nine months into it, guess what, they’re not coming back. So, I can do that but you can’t do that at the bigger firms and even the bigger mega firms would have a hard time navigating a change just like that on a dime.

Jason Diamond:

You bring up an interesting point. To the extent you face competition, do you find yourself competing more against traditional wirehouse type firms or RIAs like yourself, mega caps RIAs? Are your clients attuned to any of this?

Michael Smith:

That’s an observation I haven’t thought of either there, Jason. I would say I don’t feel that I have a … I know there’s competition out there but we have a growth issue more than we have anything else so I don’t … I can’t take on the clients that want to become my clients so I’m not competing with people too much.

Jason Diamond:

A capacity issue, you mean?

Michael Smith:

Yeah, I have a capacity issue.

Jason Diamond:

I think you’re not alone in that. How can I even think about competition and the like when … A lot of advisors would probably say that. I want to talk more about the capacity situation but, before I do, let’s talk a little more about the RIA setup. Who do you custody with, remind us, and why or how did you arrive at that decision?

Michael Smith:

Yeah. So, when I launched, I went with Schwab, Schwab is a phenomenal partner, they helped me get a lot of stuff done, I couldn’t have done it without Schwab. During the pandemic, I realized that I should probably … So, remember, during the pandemic, we had a lot of issues with the banking industry, it was almost like a financial crisis but in a very compressed time. So, during the COVID, I decided to add Fidelity as another custodian so now I have two custodians and I opened accounts on both sides of the house but I like the custodians that are there to help you, they’re very good at what they do. I don’t even consider them a competitor and they aren’t competitors, they have their own branch so I don’t consider them competitors, I think they’re my partners and both Charles Schwab and Fidelity are good partners.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, I think that’s the healthy way to look at the custody relationship. That’s a very common approach, I think, is launching with one custodian and then adding a secondary custodian or a tertiary custodian down the line for one reason or another so I appreciate you sharing that because we get those types of nuts and bolts questions a lot so I figured I’d ask you. One last question on the setup and then we’ll shift gears. Has anything been a negative? So, you talked about leaving Mother Merrill behind and, Mother Merrill, we use it facetiously but obviously it implies a degree of comfort and the homeland so I’m curious if you miss anything.

Michael Smith:

I miss the camaraderie of being with a bunch of other folks. I mentioned this when I first launched, I mentioned it year over year with my team, the one thing that we miss as an RIA and, again, Dynasty has their benefits as well and the mega RIAs have their benefits but, if you’re a true independent like myself, we get to go to conferences that we want to and that’s a timing issue, really, a time constraint. But one thing Merrill and Morgan, JPMorgan, and the other big wirehouses have as well as the megas, they have the ability to put conferences together for their advisors or their administrators and have this education. That’s the one thing that, I think, would evolve in the RIA industry in the future as well. They’re not my competitors, they’re my business colleagues. And if we think of them as competitors, and a lot of people do because I don’t want to share my client information or what I do with my competitor because they may steal them, if you’re that insecure, then you’re probably not the right advisor in the first place.

Jason Diamond:

I don’t disagree with that. It’s interesting too, I hear two common answers to that question, not about Merrill but just about somebody who’s broken away, what do you miss about the captive firm world. Either on this podcast or just in conversations with advisors, brand comes up a lot and then the point you just raised. I’ll even hear like, “Hey, forget the conferences and the trainings, just being able to have an office where I’ve got eight other advisors on a row for me, it’s a little bit of a different setup than in the independent space,” and I think that’s just a reality of you take the good with the bad. And for other advisors, by the way, one of the things I want to ask you about to this point is do you believe that there are advisors that are just better served in the W2 traditional firm world or do you think that every advisor should be looking at the RIA space?

Michael Smith:

I think that wirehouse serves a great purpose and-

Jason Diamond:

Okay, me too.

Michael Smith:

… there’s a lot of great people that are great advisors in that wirehouse, they need the structure. What I hadn’t alluded to is, and I mentioned this to a former manager from Merrill Lynch of mine just recently, actually, I was like, “I don’t think advisors realize what it takes to run a business.” I’m not trying to sugarcoat it, running an RIA is hard work, it takes a lot of your time day in and day out to run a business as well as taking care of and servicing your clients so I do think the wirehouse venue is the right way to go. And, Jason, I want to go back to one other thing about your identity. I launched as the Smith Group because that’s what I was known at Merrill Lynch. Within three or four months, I changed that name to a firm because I did not want to be associated with it.

So, when you’re at one of the wirehouses, you’re known as your team name or something of that sort, I didn’t want to be known as that, I wanted to be known as Emerald Advisors not the Smith Group because, all of a sudden, you have a single point of failure. So, brand identity, it’s not so unique inside the wirehouse because it’s a team name versus Merrill or Morgan Stanley or something like that.

Jason Diamond:

It’s a good segue because I’ll tell you where my mind goes when you bring that up. My mind goes is you’re smart in a way that you might not even realize or maybe you do realize which is that, if and when it ever comes time to sell this business, it is probably more valuable without your name attached to it or maybe not. But in some way, shape or form, as an RIA, you have an obligation to be thinking about that or it’s probably on your radar, maybe not an obligation. Have you given an ounce of thought to M&A either acquiring businesses, growing in that way or, ultimately, when you succeed out of this business and what the RIA space enables you to do?

Michael Smith:

To answer that question, yes. Everyone’s thinking about merger and acquisition, I think about succession planning from day one. I actually thought about I’m a big team person, I come from the submarine force where everyone is a key player on a submarine, every single person has a job and responsibility on a nuclear submarine. So, inside the financial services industry, I know Merrill Lynch was very big on teaming, I understand Morgan Stanley is as well because teaming gives them a breadth of responsibility where the responsibilities are shared. So, mergers and acquisitions or selling my business, I think, if you’re not thinking about that … And I’m not thinking about selling my business because that’s a distraction to me. If I needed the money, then I would’ve went to a wirehouse and that’s okay, you monetize your life’s work.

Today, I’m all about what’s right for the client, what’s right for my team and what’s right for where I want to be in the next 10 to 20 years. So, I am growing, I do want to grow, I’m looking at opening offices in probably three locations in the next 24 months or so.

Jason Diamond:

Well, that’s what I was going to say, plenty of advisors I think would say the same, I have a lot of runway. But what about the other side of this equation which is you’ve had tremendous organic growth, you’ve tripled your client base, you’ve more than tripled the asset base, have you thought about acquisition as a mean to jet fuel the inorganic growth side of things?

Michael Smith:

I have but not in the typical sense that you’re looking at as buying a book of business. I want to partner with like-minded advisors that share that common thread of taking care of clients where you can serve as their trusted counsel and sit in the meetings with their attorneys and sit in the meetings with the accountants and give them sage counsel that you can only do because you’ve been with the family for 20 years. You know this family and that, not always, but I think that’s missed a lot in other firms.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, I think that’s fair. I just thought of something else that you brought up. You brought Dynasty so I’m going to ask … I’m going to pull on this thread. That implies to me that you’re at least loosely aware of the supportive independence models that are out there yet you chose a very independent, autonomous path, why?

Michael Smith:

Because I didn’t know what I was doing.

Jason Diamond:

Fair.

Michael Smith:

Let’s be honest, I like Dynasty, I talked with Dynasty when I left. I talked to them all, I talked to Rockefeller, I talked to Morgan, I talked to Dynasty and then, when push came to shove, I wanted to be Mike Smith and launch my own firm and learn. And I will tell you, you learn drinking through a fire hose and we did that, we learned, I know the mistakes. What I didn’t want to do is just go to someplace where this is the stuff you’re going to have to use. So, I think Dynasty is a great launching platform, I think there’s other ones out there that are similar to Dynasty or the Rockefellers or the Morgans, it’s truly what you’re trying to achieve in life. What do you want for you and your clients and I always put my clients before me because I’ve always had this lifelong thing of, you do the right thing, you’re going to get taken care of.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah. And that’s a very common analysis, by the way, and it’s very common too for big advisors like yourself to say I did my homework across all of those different categories. I looked at the traditional wirehouses and regional firms and boutique firms, I looked at the independent broker dealers, I looked at the support platforms and the aggregators and the roll-ups and here’s ultimately what I landed on and why. Did you always know that though or was that something that it took you a diligence process to figure out? There was plenty of advisors, by the way, who come to us and they’re like, “I knew for the last five years that I was sitting there I was launching an RIA someday.”

Michael Smith:

Yeah. I did not know that and, to be honest with you, hindsight, I think one of those partners probably could have made me a little bit better at first because then I could have focused on clients versus focusing on, hey, how to open a business, who’s your technology … We talked about custodians and some other things but we didn’t talk about technology, how do you go find that technology. Where’s your email address come from? Who’s your chief compliance officer? When it resides on you, you got to look in the mirror. So, I think those parties out there that provide that for brand-new advisors launching could be very beneficial. I had in my mind what I needed to do and I knew I’m very frugal so mine boiled down to how much money I wanted to spend, to be honest with you.

Jason Diamond:

I think it is a cost benefit analysis, it is. It’s absolutely … Because if you list the functions of a support platform on paper and you showed it to somebody who didn’t know the industry, they would say, “Why on earth wouldn’t you do this? They’re taking off your plate compliance and tech and custody and the like,” and the answer is because there’s a cost associated with it and plenty of advisors decide what you decide, I wanted … Or I just wanted a greater degree of autonomy and freedom, to your point, the name on the door piece, I wanted this to be mine.

Michael Smith:

And, Jason, I think it also goes to the uncertainty. I had never done anything since Navy, financial advising and then launching. So, for me, I was launching with four employees I had to take care of and here I was going to hire a third party that I was going to have to spend X amount on and I didn’t even know what my income was going to be. That’s different if you’re a multi-billion dollar FA coming out of a wirehouse, the monetary dynamics are different.

Jason Diamond:

Agreed. Okay, here’s a good one for you. We get this concept from advisors, from firms, from private equity that a billion dollars in assets is like this magic number in our industry. Do you feel like anything’s changed now that you’re at a billion and what’s the next chapter for Emerald Advisors? Is it just continuing on this steady trajectory and serving clients and trust that everything else comes with that?

Michael Smith:

I go back and forth on a billion, everyone thinks that’s the right number, the biggest number that you need but I think it’s just an arbitrary numbers because it didn’t define who I was. And a lot of people define success at a billion, they define success that you’re a successful firm at a billion. I think I was a successful firm at 300 million, I was a successful financial advisor with 20 clients in 2005. I would say a billion is a multiplier, what I would tell new advisors out there today is gather assets. The more assets you have, the more revenue you generate. The more revenue you generate, the more money you can put in your pocket which means the longer you can stay in the industry. The problem with the industry is an attrition problem, not anything else. So, assets just give us the ability to have revenue which gives us the ability to grow.

Jason Diamond:

And is that the plan? Keep adding assets, keep growing one client at a time with the focus though, obviously, on what makes you which is a very client-centric service model.

Michael Smith:

Correct. There’s a lot of things I want to do in the next couple of years and expanding our footprint is our biggest one with the right partners and then just keep adding. I have a business development officer that I’m probably offer a job to here pretty soon and things are going well.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, that’s great. You mentioned the tech stack and the other components of the business and I hear you on the frugal cost-benefit analysis. But who did you turn to for some of those early decisions, was it Schwab primarily who helped hold your hand through that?

Michael Smith:

Schwab was very good at helping me identify the tech stack at first and the tech stack is actually the one consistent, there’s a lot of things I’ve been consistent on but tech is one that I’ve stayed with them. I launched with RightSize, now they’re Advisory, they’re very good, they do the right job for us and I’m big on cybersecurity. So, tech was helpful from Schwab, Schwab helped us with that.

Jason Diamond:

So, we spoke a little bit about your naval experience but, I’m curious, can you tell us how has your naval experience shaped your perception or your experience in wealth management?

Michael Smith:

My Navy path was a lot different than many officers. I served 12 years as an enlisted person before I got my direct commission as a Mustang officer, typically called limited duty officers or loud, dumb and obnoxious as I like to say. But that experience gave me a unique perspective because I was able to be the enlisted side and officer which are the workers and then the management side so I had both experiences which was unique. When I was commissioned, Admiral Jerry Ellis, a submarine admiral that commissioned me, heard this lesson to the podium, he was just talking about me in this point but he said, “There are three kinds of people in every organization. You have rowboat people who need to be pushed, you have sailboat people who move whenever the conditions are favorable and then there’s steamboat people, they move continuously through calm or storm.” And he said, “This is Ensign Michael Smith,” he said, “Make your course.”

And that’s always stood with me because you do have those three types of people in life. You got people that are just … They’re robo people, they go until they get tired. You got sailboat people that go wherever the wind blows them and then you got steamboat people that chart their own course. I would say for advisors out there make your course or just be happy with what you’re doing. But for some of us hard chargers, I think that analogy has stayed with me my entire career.

Jason Diamond:

It’s fantastic. I love the analogy, great naval tie in also. Thanks for sharing that. We got time for one more question. You have a fascinating background, a fascinating path to the industry, obviously, an incredibly disciplined approach around client service, any parting thoughts, words of wisdom especially as it relates to growth? That’s what strikes me most about your story is the growth that your move unlocked and that’s what every advisor who listens to our show is looking for.

Michael Smith:

I’m going to give another plug to Schwab on this. We actually were fortunate and I got their consulting group to come in right afterwards and I’m a big believer in having offsite. So, I’ve had an offsite, two offsites a year for my team and it’s the entire team unlike the wirehouses where you don’t take your admins and stuff like that. I take my entire team to an offsite and we group up on what we’re trying to achieve and have goals and objectives for the year. Schwab allowed us to use their consultants and we came up with our ideal client persona. Teams or firms that have this model become high performing. When you become high performing, growth becomes the outcome. I couldn’t do anything but grow. Jason, I couldn’t not grow because I had this ideal client persona, I knew how I was going to do it, it was measurable. So, growth becomes the outcome and, if you hold people responsible, then we’re all going to grow together and it’s a fun outcome.

Jason Diamond:

Fantastic, it’s a great place to end. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us, I can’t wait to see what the next chapter holds for Emerald, this has been a lot of fun.

Michael Smith:

Jason, thank you so much. I appreciate everything you do for the industry as well.

Mindy Diamond:

As a financial advisor, you hold yourself to the highest standards of integrity, honesty and credibility. You are successful because you take your professional responsibility seriously and are dedicated to your clients. But are you living your best business life? Are your goals aligned with your firms or could a better option exist? Should I Stay or Should I Go? Is a book written with you in mind? It’s a self-guided journey that walks you through the key steps that we take with our advisor clients. This strategic thought process and roadmap to professional self-discovery is designed to help you ask the right questions and think critically and objectively whether you’re considering change or not. Learn how to get your copy at diamond-consultants.com/thebook.

View Details

With the Co-Authors of The Greater Game and Dan Sullivan of Strategic Coach and John Bowen of CEG InsightsLouis Diamond speaks with Dan Sullivan of Strategic Coach® and John Bowen of CEG Insights about founder dependency, enterprise value, and the architecture behind scalable businesses.

In SummaryMany advisory firms grow successfully while remaining highly dependent on their founders. Dan Sullivan and John Bowen argue that the difference between a successful practice and a valuable enterprise comes down to architecture.

Louis sits down with the co-authors of The Greater Game to discuss founder dependency, enterprise value, intellectual property, and why some businesses scale beyond their owners while others do not. The conversation offers advisors a framework for thinking differently about growth, succession, and long-term optionality.

The StorylineMany advisors spend their careers helping clients build valuable businesses. Far fewer stop to ask whether their own firms are being built the same way.

That tension sits at the center of Louis Diamond’s conversation with Dan Sullivan, co-founder of Strategic Coach®, and John Bowen, founder of CEG Elevate Group and CEG Insights.

Their new book, The Greater Game, challenges a common assumption about growth: that bigger businesses are simply the result of working harder, adding more clients, or improving existing systems. Instead, they argue that enterprise value is created through architecture—the deliberate design of a business that can scale, transfer, and thrive without its founder at the center.

The discussion introduces a framework for understanding why some entrepreneurs remain trapped in optimization while others build enterprises that compound in value over time. Along the way, Dan and John explore founder dependency, intellectual property, succession planning, strategic partnerships, and the role advisors can play in helping entrepreneurial clients navigate each stage of growth.

For advisors, the framework creates an important mirror. The same forces that limit enterprise value for entrepreneurial clients often exist inside advisory firms themselves. The result is a conversation that extends well beyond business growth and into questions of optionality, transferability, and what ultimately makes a firm valuable.

Topics Covered* Enterprise Value Creation * Founder Dependency Risk * Business Architecture vs. Optimization * Intellectual Property & Scalability * Strategic Partnerships & Leverage * Succession Planning & Optionality * Legacy, Impact & the “Greater Game” Mindset

> Download a transcript of this episode…

Listen and Learn Highlights for AdvisorsWhat is The Greater Game—and why does it matter to advisors? (17:57)

Dan and John introduce the framework behind their new book and explain why advisors should think about it both for entrepreneurial clients and for their own businesses.

Why do only a small percentage of entrepreneurs create exponential enterprise value? (22:24)

The discussion explores the difference between “architects” and “optimizers” and why most business owners remain focused on improving what exists rather than designing what comes next.

Why is founder dependency such a significant valuation risk? (35:00)

John explains how businesses that depend on a single individual often struggle to scale, transfer, or command premium valuations.

How does expertise become intellectual property—and why does that matter? (35:00)

The transition from expertise to transferable systems may be the most important bridge in the entire framework, creating leverage that extends beyond the founder.

What prevents many advisors from fully serving entrepreneurial clients? (18:00)

The conversation examines why most advisors are well-equipped for traditional planning needs but less prepared for the governance, succession, and enterprise-value challenges entrepreneurs eventually face.

What does the next game look like after you’ve already “won”? (50:00)

Dan and John discuss why many successful entrepreneurs and advisors eventually shift their focus from accumulation to significance, impact, and legacy.

What’s the single most important move an entrepreneur can make? (52:30)

Dan shares the concept of Unique Ability® and explains why simplifying around your highest-value strengths often creates the greatest multiplier effect.

Key TakeawaysEnterprise value is created through architecture, not effort. Many successful businesses continue to grow while remaining highly dependent on their founders. The firms that command premium valuations are often built differently from the start.

Founder dependency acts as a hidden valuation discount. The more a business depends on one person, the more difficult it becomes to scale, transfer, or sell at a premium.

Intellectual property is often the bridge between a practice and an enterprise. When expertise becomes codified, transferable, and repeatable, value begins to exist independently of the founder.

Advisors and entrepreneurs often face the same challenge. The same founder-dependency issues advisors help clients solve frequently exist within their own firms.

Strategic partnerships create leverage that expertise alone cannot. Many of the most successful entrepreneurs grow through collaboration, ecosystems, and coordinated expertise rather than attempting to solve every challenge themselves.

Most advisors are trained to solve early-stage problems. Entrepreneurial clients eventually require guidance around succession, governance, scalability, and enterprise value—areas that extend beyond traditional planning.

The next stage of growth is often not about growth at all. For many successful entrepreneurs, the question eventually shifts from accumulation to significance, impact, and the legacy they want their business to create.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY5xOB8GTQY

Quotable Moments“The exit multiple is downstream of the architecture.”

“The difference between a three-times and a fifteen-times multiple is often whether the business depends on the founder.”

“You have to simplify in order to multiply.”

“We’re not talking about a 10x game anymore. We’re talking about a 100x game.”

FAQs Why do some advisory firms command higher valuation multiples than others?

Dan Sullivan and John Bowen argue that valuation is often determined long before a transaction occurs. Firms that reduce founder dependency, codify intellectual property, and build transferable systems typically command higher multiples than those built around a single rainmaker.

What is founder dependency and how does it impact enterprise value?

Founder dependency occurs when clients, revenue, and decision-making remain concentrated around one individual. While those businesses can be highly successful, advisors find they are often more difficult to scale, transfer, or sell.

What is the difference between an architect and an optimizer?

An optimizer focuses on improving an existing business model. An architect builds systems, intellectual property, and structures designed to create leverage, scalability, and long-term enterprise value.

What does Dan Sullivan mean when he says “100x is easier than 2x”?

The concept challenges entrepreneurs to stop thinking incrementally. Rather than working harder within the current model, transformational growth often comes from redesigning the model itself through better leverage, collaboration, and systems.

How can advisors better serve entrepreneurial clients?

Many entrepreneurial clients eventually need guidance beyond investment management, including succession planning, governance, intellectual property strategy, and enterprise value creation. Understanding where a client sits in their business journey can help advisors provide more relevant advice and coordination.

What is the expertise trap and why does it matter for advisory firms?

The expertise trap occurs when critical knowledge, relationships, and processes remain inside the founder’s head. Until that expertise becomes transferable and repeatable, enterprise value often remains limited regardless of growth.

Dan Sullivan and John Bowen argue that valuation is often determined long before a transaction occurs. Firms that reduce founder dependency, codify intellectual property, and build transferable systems typically command higher multiples than those built around a single rainmaker.

Founder dependency occurs when clients, revenue, and decision-making remain concentrated around one individual. While those businesses can be highly successful, advisors find they are often more difficult to scale, transfer, or sell.

An optimizer focuses on improving an existing business model. An architect builds systems, intellectual property, and structures designed to create leverage, scalability, and long-term enterprise value.

The concept challenges entrepreneurs to stop thinking incrementally. Rather than working harder within the current model, transformational growth often comes from redesigning the model itself through better leverage, collaboration, and systems.

Many entrepreneurial clients eventually need guidance beyond investment management, including succession planning, governance, intellectual property strategy, and enterprise value creation. Understanding where a client sits in their business journey can help advisors provide more relevant advice and coordination.

The expertise trap occurs when critical knowledge, relationships, and processes remain inside the founder’s head. Until that expertise becomes transferable and repeatable, enterprise value often remains limited regardless of growth.

Related Resources The Greater Game* by Dan Sullivan and John Bowen * Strategic Coach® * CEG Elevate Group * The Greater Game Dashboard * Diamond Consultants Advisor Transition Report

Dan SullivanThe world’s foremost expert on entrepreneurship in action, Dan Sullivan has spent the past five decades empowering business owners to reach their full potential in both their professional and personal lives. His strong belief in and commitment to the power of the entrepreneur is evident in all areas of his company, Strategic Coach®, and its successful membership community.

Dan is married to Babs Smith, his partner in business and in life. They jointly own and operate The Strategic Coach Inc., with offices in Toronto, Chicago, and the UK

Dan and Babs reside in Toronto.

John BowenJohn J. Bowen Jr. is the founder and CEO of CEG Elevate Group, the holding company that includes CEG Worldwide and CEG Insights. Through these companies, he helps elite financial advisors serve fewer, wealthier clients exceptionally well while building more valuable and scalable businesses.

Before founding CEG, John spent 26 years as a financial advisor and built a $2 billion wealth management business. That firsthand experience grounds CEG’s work today across advisor coaching, enterprise programs, empirical research through CEG Insights, and practical frameworks for advisors who want to move beyond practice growth to enduring enterprise value.

John is the author of 21 books on wealth management, entrepreneurship, and success. His newest book, The Greater Game: Your 100x Blueprint for Exponential Growth, Freedom, and Legacy, co-authored with Dan Sullivan of Strategic Coach, will be published by Hay House Business in May 2026.

Today, John and the CEG team work with leading advisors and enterprise firms — including some of the largest advisor organizations in the United States — to help advisors deepen relationships with affluent clients, build scalable practices, and design lives of greater significance.

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

View the transcript of this episode…
Architecting 100x Growth: A “How-To” From Legends Dan Sullivan and John Bowen

A conversation with Louis Diamond and Co-Authors of The Greater Game, Dan Sullivan of Strategic Coach and John Bowen of CEG Insights.

Louis Diamond:

Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is Architecting 100x Growth: A “How-To” From Legends Dan Sullivan and John Bowen, a conversation with the industry’s top coaches and co-authors of The Greater Game. I’m Louis Diamond, and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors.

Mindy Diamond:

At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned.

And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education-driven and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at 908-879-1002.

Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual Advisor Transition Report. It’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport.

Louis Diamond:

Most entrepreneurs and many advisors spend years optimizing for growth without realizing they’re building a business that still depends entirely on them. Revenue and complexity grow; enterprise value, transferability, and freedom often lag far behind. Dan Sullivan and John Bowen argue that the issue isn’t effort or intelligence; it’s architecture. No doubt these are familiar names in the wealth management industry, but just to set the stage, Dan is the co-founder of Strategic Coach, and John is the founder of CEG Elevate Group and CEG Insights.

Together, they spent decades coaching and studying high-performing entrepreneurs and advisory firms. Their latest book, one they joined forces on, The Greater Game, lays out a very different framework for thinking about growth, one built around scalability, transferrable value, and long-term leverage rather than incremental optimization. What makes this conversation especially relevant for advisors is that the framework cuts both ways.

It applies to the entrepreneurial clients that advisors serve, as well as to the advisory firms themselves. And in many cases, the same founder dependency and expertise trap that limits a client’s enterprise value is quietly limiting the advisor’s business too. We talk about the difference between operators and architects, why 100 times growth can actually be easier than two times growth, where businesses tend to stall as they scale and how advisors can start thinking differently about their own firms, particularly when it comes to enterprise value, succession, and long-term optionality.

It’s rare access to a conversation with two of our industry’s legends whose advice and counsel has not only helped to transform the business lives of many of our listeners, but also my own. So let’s get to it. Dan and John, thank you both for joining us today.

Dan Sullivan:

Thank you, Lou. It’s a real pleasure.

John Bowen:

I’ve had the privilege of joining you before, but never with my co-author, Dan Sullivan, and I’m excited to share what we’re doing because I think it can make a big impact in our advisor industry.

Louis Diamond:

No doubt about it. Yeah, this has been an interview I’ve been very excited to host. So let’s jump right in. Dan Sullivan, I think you are a man that needs little introduction. So many advisors in the industry are fans or clients of your firm, Strategic Coach, but for those who aren’t as familiar or need a refresh, can you just give some quick context into why you started Strategic Coach and what the company does today?

Dan Sullivan:

Yeah. Well, it goes back to 1974. I was a copywriter at BBDO, the Canadian branch of BBDO, big global advertising agency. It still is. But I’ve been sort of a lifetime coach. I remember once when my mother finally caught up with what I was doing in life and I was describing what I was doing, she says, “Well, you were doing that when you were a child. You were talking to adults and you were asking adults about their experiences.”

And I said, “Yeah, I could do this when I was eight or nine years old, but it took me a long time to get a business model wrapped around it.” But I jumped out in 1974 and started coaching anybody, but it actually turned out that entrepreneurs were the best people to coach because they would write a check on the spot and they would make a decision on the spot and I needed cashflow and I did it.

So I’ve been personally, as a Strategic Coach, which was named by someone else. You’re just out there trying to get cashflow to pay for the rent. So I started in ’74, and I was lucky and it really relates to your target audience, Lou. Right off the bat, I got what are called top-of-the-table life insurance agents. And that was really, really great because life insurance agents are purely a conceptual business.

So someone can get a new idea at breakfast and they can have a new business by dinnertime just because they can change their mindset. And that moved on. And I did that for 15 years, just one-on-one, 1970s, 1980s. And then, I’d had enough experience that we turned it into a workshop program in 1989. We’ve been at it ever since.

So I was at a talk. Joe Polish is a great friend of ours, Joe Polish with Genius Network. And he had a speaker there, and he says, “You’re one of the original gangsters, aren’t you? You’re one of the first people.” And I said, “I don’t know if I’m the original, but I think I’m the only surviving one.” So it’s 52 years that I’ve been doing what I’m doing. And I had the good fortune to meet John in around 2009. John, was that the year? 2009?

John Bowen:

Yeah, in the little economic downturn that everybody knows about here.

Dan Sullivan:

Yeah. And John had a great coaching program and we had a great coaching program. And over the years, we’ve talked a lot about what makes a entrepreneur exponential in their thinking. And finally, about two years ago, we decided, let’s write a book about this. And that’s the new book, which is called The Greater Game. That’s where this all started. It’s just been a great pleasure because we sync very well.

Louis Diamond:

Amazing. And Dan, I think a lot of people likely know you either from Strategic Coach. I know I’m personally a big fan of two of your books and I know of others, The Gap and The Gain and Who Not How. We’re going to talk about your new book, but I think it’d just be helpful. Can you talk about the key premise of some of your prior books, The Gap and The Gain and Who Not How?

Dan Sullivan:

As a result of my membership, I’m a member in other groups. And so Joe Polish of Genius Network fame, he’s been in my program for 28 years, and I’ve been in his program for 15 years. And there was a writer who was in one of the first Genius Network workshops, and he approached me. And I created a lot of books, but I create small books and they’re self-published. I do a book a quarter. I’m 82 in about three weeks.

So when I was 70, I said, “I’m going to give myself a 25-year project. I’ll write 100 books in 100 quarters.” And this is quarter number 47, and I’m writing my 47th book. But they’re little books. They’re 60, 70 pages. They’re one-idea books. And Ben Hardy, who was, at that time, the number one writer on Medium, which is a blogging type medium, he approached me, and he said, “I know you don’t write big books and you don’t have publisher books. But,” he said, “if you ever did,” he said, “I’d like to collaborate.”

And that was a great good fortune on my part. So we produced three books in five years. The first book was Who Not How. Who Not How basically says when you have a goal, the biggest problem with the goal, you’re excited about the goal, but you’re not excited about doing it. So you find “Whos” who help you and you build teamwork around it. And that was a big seller.

And then, we had another concept which was called The Gap and The Gain that entrepreneurs, depending on how they measure their progress, can be perpetually unhappy or they can be perpetually motivated. And it all depends on how they measure their progress, how they measure their goal setting and their goal achievement. And then the third book, which has really turned out to be the big one, up until this book, this book will be bigger. It’s called 10x Is Easier Than 2x.

So hence, Coach, everybody has a 10x game plan. Whatever number they want to choose, revenues, personal net worth, whatever, you have a framework of 10x, which is sometime in the future, but you use that future framework for deciding what you’re going to do today that will end up as a 10x result. I thought that was going to be our formula for the rest of my life until I met John.

And then John is a great AI practitioner. And I began to realize that that 10x is now becoming 100x for really top-notch entrepreneurs, but the 10x is easier than 2x. And we just crossed the million mark with the three books, which is really good. And it’s great for lead… we’re having people show up and they’ve really bought into what Strategic Coach is. We have a good size company. We’re not a small company. We have 120 team members. We’re in five centers: Los Angeles, Vancouver, Chicago, Toronto and London, England.

But it’s been really great because we’ve really grown with technological change and it’s basically, we teach people how to think about their thinking. And Lou, you were in for three years, both in-person and virtual. So you know what the starting structure of it is, but I’m in love with entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs are crucial characters on the planet, but mostly they operate alone and what we’ve done is create a community for them.

Louis Diamond:

Fantastic. Thank you, Dan. And John, I think perfect segue to you, because I know you’ve spent your career serving and helping entrepreneurs as well, mostly within financial services or within wealth management. And you’ve been very kind to share some of your amazing research on advisors serving entrepreneurial clients in the past. But for anyone who’s missed those episodes, similar question for you, can you share what your companies do? CEG Elevate, CEG Insights, your new research, and then we’ll dive into your exciting new book.

John Bowen:

Thank you, Louis. And Dan and I are very excited about just entrepreneurs in general. Dan is, because he’s working with them directly. The best clients for financial advisors are entrepreneurs, largely, if you’re going to go high net worth, ultra-high net worth. So we have a company, CEG Elevate, which is our parent company. Two of the companies that are really interesting for this podcast is CEG Insights and this is our research arm. And we’ll study about 20,000 high net worth, ultra-high net worth clients this year in depth and 6,000 up to 7,000 we’ll do just of entrepreneurs.

And this is in the partnership. Lou, I invited you up to… We were skiing two years ago in Park City and you couldn’t join us. But Dan and I made a deal to do a 25-year partnership studying entrepreneurship, one for Strategic Coach and his coaching clients, but really the opportunity for financial advisors. And it’s probably just as well because I came down, and I think, Dan, you were 80 at the time and I was 69. I’m 70 now.

And I was skiing with a whole bunch of 40-year-olds, and they’re all going, “You guys are way too optimistic.” And Dan and I are just getting started on this. And the other company that’s applicable is CEG Worldwide, where we have the privilege of coaching and training some of the top financial advisors, those aspiring, and also working with the enterprises to really help move up market and do this great experience.

Louis Diamond:

Fantastic. Dan, question for you. What was the core problem you and John were trying to solve in your new book, The Greater Game? What is it that existing frameworks weren’t touching? And then John, I’ll have a follow-up question for you after that.

Dan Sullivan:

Yeah. Well, by the very nature of what we do, we’re not going for wannabes. We’re not going for entrepreneurs who hope to be really successful someday. We’re engaging with and we’re registering into both of our communities, people who, they’re already great. They’re already doing so many things right, but they’re kind of doing it unconsciously. They just have a unique ability for growth. They have a unique ability for networking and expansion, but the very, very core is they’ve done it on their own.

And they’ve done it out of intuition and they’ve done it out of ambition and motivation. But their biggest problem is that they’re really lonely. I’m in my sixth decade now of coaching entrepreneurs, and people say, “Well, what’s the number one problem that entrepreneurs face?” And I said, “Loneliness.” They can’t explain themselves to the family they grew up with. They can’t explain themselves with their lifetime friends. They have thoughts about how they’re operating.

And they take enormous pride in their ability to transform difficulties into breakthroughs, but they don’t have anybody to talk to. So what we’ve created is a community where when you walk in the room, everybody in that room immediately understands you. Everybody immediately applauds what you’ve done. Everybody is inspired by you. So my framework is I call, “What you’ve done on your own, you’re great. You’re a winner already, but who do you talk to?” You have to hide a lot of your success because they just won’t understand what it is that actually motivates you.

And the beauty of the partnership with John is the vast majority of our clients are in 70 or 80 different industries, so they’re not peculiar. We start off with financial services, especially life insurance. But what I notice is that all the difficulty they get into life is they’re trying to communicate with people who don’t understand them.

And what we’re saying is, “Stage one, you did it on your own, you’re great by any standard whatsoever. You check all the boxes for being a successful person, but you don’t really have any way to actually check out how other people are doing this.” And so we’ve created a community, and John has created a community where people, immediately, there’s understanding. And not only that, but there’s opportunity because they’re unique in their own ways.

Every one of our entrepreneurs has created a very, very unique pattern of success that if they were with 10 other people, they could learn from this. If they were with 30 other people, they would learn even more. So that’s what we’ve done. So stage two is now joining a community where everybody gets you.

Louis Diamond:

Interesting. And that’s the premise of the book. We don’t want to have people not buy it, but what is the greater game? What’s the game that folks are playing and pursuing and how do you make it greater?

Dan Sullivan:

I tell you, what I’ve always been lacking, I’m sort of intuitive like most entrepreneurs are. We’ve done about 300 times growth since we started the program. But it’s intuitive. I don’t have any research to back this up. I’m low on fact finder. I find, generally speaking, the best facts are just the facts that I make up, but at a certain point, you’d like to have some actual research to back me up. So I’ve gone as far as I can go with our company without real research.

Then John comes into the picture, and now we got some real research. And I will say this, this is generally true. It’s not just a problem with me that I don’t have research. I find that entrepreneurism is one of the least researched subjects on the planet. And John comes along and he’s done all the backfill for how entrepreneurs actually perform and I’ve got research to prove it.

Louis Diamond:

Perfect. Yeah, John, question for you. So what is The Greater Game? And then, how do you think it relates to what financial advisors have been missing?

John Bowen:

One of the things that we as financial advisors all want to work with people who have already won. And there’s no better group than entrepreneurs, successful entrepreneurs. If we look at people with 25 million or more of investible assets across all households in the US, 90% are entrepreneurs. And at the 5 to 25 million of investible assets, it’s three out of four. So at CEG Worldwide, we’ve always wanted to really understand advisors.

And we said we’ll partner with Dan and his passion with entrepreneurs, we’ll go ahead and study them so that we can bring insights on how we can better serve them. And the very first thing we want to do is understand, yeah, there’s very different stages that we see of entrepreneurs and we talk about the whole concept of The Greater Game. And the idea here is we wanted to identify… And I’ll share some PowerPoint slides. I know a lot of us are listening and I just want to walk through this, but Louis will have it in show notes, his team will.

We really saw four areas. The first one was level one, stage one was foundation for freedom. They had ambition, the vision, but they really needed security. And Dan calls this, and I love this term, “cash confidence.” But it’s really using a financial advisor to have security. And one of the things, the last time I was on with you, Louis, we talked about there’s 59.2% of entrepreneurs who want to switch advisors because they don’t believe they have that security.

And that’s kind of the foundation. And this is why you’re never going to read a more friendly financial advisor book for entrepreneurs than this because in our coaching program, we’re developing workshops and so on to bring this message out. And then the second level is where now we saw… and there were four levels. Dan and I identified 5.4% of these entrepreneurs that were just killing it and they were going through all four levels.

The second level was energy for expansion. They were very motivated, they were excited about getting up and really the intellectual property, and Dan’s been one of the big leaders in this, is so much of what we know… And as I go through this too, I want every one of the advisors to think about it’s not only your entrepreneurial clients, this is for you too, is having this intellectual property, getting it out of your head so that your business is not founder-dependent or personality-dependent. You’ve got this enterprise. And then, the third level where it really took off was collaboration and multiplication. And Dan talked about the power of community and this is so big.

And for advisors, the community is often working with other professionals, the accountants, the attorneys, the investment bankers. Matter of fact, when we survey, we found that 40% of the people with 25 million or more that they invest with an advisor came through an investment banker. So creating that community, teamwork, having the right team and then autonomy. Can you step away from your practice? The entrepreneurs step away 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, making that independence, moving from the founder-dependent to the enterprise.

And the last level was exponential. And this is all along the way, the AI opportunities to accelerate this and augment this is really real, but the agency where the blue ocean, creating new markets, then getting the commitment and courage. And at each of these levels, we saw different entrepreneurs just really taking off. And one of the things that’s so important, Louis, for what we’re talking about today is advisors all are ready to treat stage one, the foundation for freedom, but they don’t really understand the other stages, and that’s really what entrepreneurs want.

So if you want to work in this market, it’s very important for you to understand what you can do to help. The difference is often for an entrepreneur, a three to five multiplier versus 15, the level one or stage one to stage four. And this is where it gets really exciting.

Louis Diamond:

This would be a question for John. You found, and he’s mentioned it, that only 5.4% of entrepreneurs operate as architects versus optimizers. Can you explain the difference between those two personas?

John Bowen:

Well, I’m going to set up the research and let Dan really bring it home. But Dan and I came up with this framework, The Greater Game and the 10 Multipliers, and we’ve got that and we’re putting it in order and we wanted to really confirm. And everything we do is empirical research. So we reached out to 1,000 very successful entrepreneurs, 1,016. And it became very clear that the 5.4% of them were actually executing on all these levels and they were just distancing everyone else.

And what we came up with, and Dan mentioned it earlier, that his book, 10x Is Easier Than 2x, but we said, what we’re seeing… and we’ve got a whole bunch, I think it’s 26 stories in the book of entrepreneurs, we’re seeing so many people blow this out that 100x is easier than 2x, and it forces a whole different mindset where if you’re optimizing, you’re kind of looking incrementally.

But when you step back as an architect, big picture, wow, huge opportunity, both for entrepreneurs and advisors that are entrepreneurs to make a real big difference. This is something you’ve really coached to and had the privilege of working with thousands of entrepreneurs helping them on that journey.

Dan Sullivan:

Yeah. One of the things that was confusing for me, Lou, when I first started coaching, because everybody who came in to coach, you remember when you came into your first Chicago workshop, that everybody in the room was motivated. I’m not a motivational speaker. I don’t have to motivate the entrepreneurs who are in Coach. They’re already motivated. The problem is the focus of their ambition and focus.

And what we discovered was that there were two types that showed up. I didn’t really understand it, but they’re what I call status-oriented entrepreneurs. And what they are when they were a kid, they didn’t have anything. Their family wasn’t at the top of the pole. When they were born, they grew up in a certain community, but there were certain people who lived in the right part of town and they had really big houses and everything about their lifestyle was way above everybody else in the lifestyle.

And they saw the lack of what they had, because of the way they were born, that they were going to match it. But the matching was based in not only what the big home looks like. They’ve got other homes, they’ve got vacation homes. They belong to clubs. There’s clubs for the winners, and the losers aren’t part of those clubs, golf courses and boating clubs and everything else.

And what I noticed was their motivation was simply to get to that point where they had the same sort of status. And they’re interesting for a while, but once they’ve gotten to that level of status, they’re not interesting anymore. They go on cruise control at that point and they just want to stay within that framework. But the really interesting entrepreneurs, and we really highlight them in the book, it’s just about growth. So when they get to one level, they say, “That’s great. Okay, now I’ve got a new baseline and now I want to grow even further.”

And we have one story, very, very interesting. When he came into my Chicago workshop, I met him and he said, “I’ve got a big engineering company.” This is Paul VanDuyne. He’s out of the Quad City area of Iowa. And he says, “My ambition for your program is for three years, I’m just going to plan my retirement.” And I said, “Well, we’ve got some thoughts about that.” So I said, “Just do your first workshop and we’ll talk about it 90 days from now.” And he came back and he had an entirely different game plan, and he’s grown basically 250 times in his last 13 years. He’s completely transformed the industry that he’s in and he had this growth.

So what we’re looking for in The Greater Game, we’re looking for those entrepreneurs who are already successful, but they don’t see any stopping point. They’ll grow to one level and then they say, “Okay, that’s the new baseline. Now I grow to another level.” Meanwhile, three years ago, what happened is the world got a new capability called AI. AI, you’re not talking 10x. If you use it properly… a lot of people are in the very early stages here, but we can see the ones who are applying it for growth.

John has set up an entire research structure just to measure the people, and what are the people who are just motivated by growth? They don’t see any stopping point. They don’t see any retirement age. They’re just growing. They’re in better health now than they were when they started their ambition. One of the great breakthroughs we’re having now is the impact of AI on physical fitness and health right now. And so you have 70-year-olds now who are way more ambitious at 70 than they were at 50.

So we think a whole new world is being created in front of us, but there isn’t the research to measure what the real winners of this new game are actually doing. And The Greater Game is a lot of Strategic Coach thinking tools, but it’s also the phenomenal research that John is doing, and we’re measuring exactly what are these people who just constantly grow, what are they actually doing?

John Bowen:

Louis, if I can jump in, I want to go back to Paul just for a second because he was going to do something classical, and Dan is also my coach and I was going to do something similar. Paul told Dan that he was going to retire at 65, and his wife. And he were going to open up a little mom-and-pop coffee shop. And the reason so many of the entrepreneurs are caught in the 2x optimization is they’re grinding it out. They’re working harder to be more successful and the desire to do that isn’t very high.

That’s why you retire. On the other hand, what we found, the ones working on 100x are building platforms and ecosystems. They’re architected. And as we were writing the book, CEG grew by 58%. I’m going to give a lot of credit to the book, because as Dan and I were working on the processes, I wanted to walk all the talks. This is where the world is changing. I want everybody to think as a financial advisor, you’re being served twice, one with The Greater Game, they don’t care about a few basis points on returns. That’s table stakes.

So much of the level one is taking care of the investment side, mitigating taxes, taking care of the areas, protecting the assets, some charitable planning, maybe shoot in some succession planning. I can tell you only 6% of the entrepreneurs actually feel they’re getting that from you, but that’s only level one. If you can help them from each of the stages, stage one through four, and help them create that vision, they’re going to love you to death.

Because many of them want to continue in this path and create tremendous value, bigger impact, not creating legacies in the sense of enduring legacies, but active legacies. Last year, my wife and I set up a private foundation. I called it The Greater Game Foundation. I just love this so much, the difference that you can make, and I want to do it while I’m living, not while I’m gone type of thing. I think that’s one Dan and I very much share.

Louis Diamond:

Awesome. You wrote the book 10x Is Easier Than 2x, but now you’re claiming 100x is easier than 2x. How can that be the case?

Dan Sullivan:

The interesting thing, one of my points of proof on the original idea, the 10x Mind Expander, I use a lot of what the entrepreneurs have already done to prove the future. In other words, I said… You’ll remember the exercise, Lou. And I said, “I want you to pick your best number.” Everybody’s got a best number. It’s revenue, it’s net worth, whatever. And I said, “I just want you to multiply by 10.”

And immediately there’s this reaction. He says, “You know how hard it was to get to just where I am 10 times?” And I said, “Well, you’ve already done 10 times. You’ve probably done 10 times twice. So let’s go back to the beginning. When were you 1/10 of where you are right now?” And they can nail it. They can tell you the year, they can tell you the month when they were 1/10 of where they were.

And I said, “Let’s write the actual structure that got you from 1/10 to where you are right now.” And there’s five stages, and usually it’s an event, it’s a new relationship and all of a sudden they get a big check. And we measure, as entrepreneurs, size of check is a good scorecard. When you’re first starting, you got a $10,000 check, that was the biggest check. But about five years later, you get a $100,000 check, and all of a sudden it seems strange at breakfast, but by dinner you’ve normalized the idea, “Well, I know what it’s like to get a much bigger check, a 10 times check.”

And so I have them create five growth stages that took them from where they were 1/10 to where they are right now, and I said, “Now let’s go back and talk about doing 10 times more.” And what they recognize, 80% who’ve got them 10 times the first time is going to be the same. It’s relationship, it’s having a great team, it’s having a simple approach that always works and it’s about the kind end customer. It’s not about them. It’s about who is it that you’re being a hero to in the marketplace.

Because the truth is people don’t want to have a lot of relationships as they grow. They’d like to have one relationship to grow. They’d like to have an advisor who’s growing with them. But then John introduced me to the whole world of AI and I said, “We’re not talking 10 times anymore. We’re talking 100 times.” I said, “If you apply this new form of thinking, because it is an entirely new form of thinking, to what you’re doing right now, you can see that 10 times is going to happen just by doing three or four things where you’re eliminating waste, you’re eliminating things that just don’t work anymore, changing relationships, changing teamwork, changing collaborations in the marketplace.”

But meanwhile, this new world of thinking is making you healthier. It’s making you more fit. So where before you thought you wouldn’t have the energy at 70, you now have more energy at 70 than you had at 50. So you’re the only one who says when it’s going to stop. I’m 82 in three weeks. We’re having this… I’m 82 and I’m way more ambitious at 82 than I was at 52. And the world is, because the world outside in terms of technological capability and access is way, way bigger in my 82nd year than it was in my 52nd year, and I love the growth.

I have to tell you that the greatest point where AI is going to have the impact is going to be making money. The big titans, the Metas, the Googles, the Nvidias, what do they have in common? It’s about the money and where AI is being applied most is how you do new things with money. So that’s where the 100 times now comes from. I’ve normalized it. I said, “We’re not talking a 10x game anymore. We’re talking 100x game.” But the number on the scoreboard isn’t the issue. The scoreboard is, are you actually having fun?

Louis Diamond:

Yeah, we call it living your best business life. That’s our major barometer in charge. John, I don’t know if you could pull up your slides again, but I want to talk about the bridge between stage two in your pyramid to stage three. So that’s from expertise into scalable property. Can you explain how this relates to a financial advisor or an independent business owner and why this concept is so important for the valuation of a business?

John Bowen:

The book, it’s written for entrepreneurs, but I wanted to create some bridges while we’re together with Louis on really what’s going on for financial advisors and how you can help them. So if they’re at our stage one, Dan and my stage one of The Greater Game, and they want to go to two, they’re kind of dreaming oftentimes, and we want to help them begin creating the architectural structure.

And as an advisor, this is really going to encourage everybody to read chapter two, The Greater Security. It talks about really the VFO, Virtual Family Office structure that they want, and you got to help them get financially solid, building personal wealth outside of the business, tax, estate, insurance, business structure. That’s what we all do today. Then though, if they want to move from level two to three, what we find over and over again, advisors are not equipped to do this, because what we’re taking is that founder where everything’s in its head, we’re now helping them move from just having that expertise to having scalable property.

This is that codifying the process of building IP that’s transferable. And this is where the real valuation changes. Now, I’m not asking financial advisors to be the IP experts, but what the entrepreneurs want is they want somebody to help them curate and then coordinate between each of these levels. We go from three to four that the founder is indispensable, oftentimes at three. Now we want the team there to be invincible. And it’s not just the individual team as Dan was talking about. It’s the community. The collaboration is where this really takes off.

The noise of AI is making it harder to market, but by partnering, particularly as financial advisors, we can very quickly have groups. One of the reasons why I’m collaborating with Dan, I want to help our financial advisors to work with entrepreneurs. Dan wants that research. So this is the natural collaboration. But they’re interested here in governance, self-managing teams. One of the things that Strategic Coach is brilliant at, the pre-transaction they want.

And what we find so often is the indispensable discount. So many businesses sell, if they sell at all, they’re selling for three to five times multiplier, not advisory, but traditional businesses. Well, if you can make it to four, all of a sudden you’re now talking to 10 to 15 times multipliers. And think of it as if I’m a buyer and I’ve been involved in 50-some transactions, what happens is if the business is the guy, the gal, they’re the business, then you’re buying a very expensive job type thing.

So let’s just keep a simple one. They’re having a couple million dollars of EBITDA. And let’s say the high range of that, five times EBITDA is $10 million. Well, the difference at 15 times two million is 30. Now, a few basis points I don’t really care about. I really care about capturing that difference. And because there’s a machine working without, I can buy that machine and generate that cash flow and it’s also taking advantage of the vision.

And then when we get to level four, this is where most advisors make the biggest mistake is, “I’ve won. I’m at level four. I’ve got tremendous wealth.” Okay, but I’m now looking at significance. And I do want to go, “It’s not enduring legacy I’m looking for. I’m looking for active legacy. I’m looking for family governance.” Do I want to continue to build it like Dan and I’m doing at 70? I’m building the business so I can continue doing it as long as I want to do it.

At the same time, and I love the impact we have and I know you do too, Louis, for the impact you have. Why not build the platform that’s going to allow you to do that as long as you want to do that? And if you don’t want to do it, let’s create the most value to transfer. When you start having conversations like that with families, entrepreneur families, it just changes, and very few advisors can do that. And that’s what we’re finding. We have a coaching company, training company, we train those things. They’re winning, quite honestly, almost 100% of the time because entrepreneurs didn’t know that was available to them.

Louis Diamond:

Interesting. It seems like the difference between stage two in your pyramid, to leap to stage three or four, that seems like a pretty massive pivot point for valuation for building a scalable business, having a self-managing company, et cetera. Do you find or have you seen that advisors or entrepreneurs that are in stage two themselves, they kind of pattern-match when they’re working with their own clients and kind of manage their own clients into stage two, or is it not really connected?

John Bowen:

I think that once you get the bigger picture and see the greater game, you can help your clients. That is a very small percentage. Remember, it was only 5.4 of when we surveyed successful entrepreneurs were actually playing the greater game, all four levels, the 10 greater multipliers. So I think what we tend to do is we get stuck on what we can do. And all the training is for level one for financial advisors. We don’t know how to guide them through the other levels.

And really, the big difference from two to three, Dan and I’ve talked about this a lot, and I think Dan’s one of the biggest champions of this, is collaboration, putting together strategic partnerships. It could be with your competitors. This is for entrepreneurs, competitors, it could be various vendor partnerships.

But the ability to open up markets that way when you have now put together in level two your IP, value creation’s huge. For advisors, it’s putting together partnerships with centers of influence. When we survey top financial advisors, 70% of their best clients came through COI, Centers of Influence with accountants, attorneys, investment bankers, and so on. Well, let’s do it on purpose, be successful on purpose.

Louis Diamond:

Dan, question for you. In all your experience working with successful financial advisors, insurance producers, probably any entrepreneur, what do you feel are the most common things that folks do unintentionally to really hurt their enterprise value even long before, or if ever, they decide to sell their business?

Dan Sullivan:

Yeah, I think the biggest thing is they stay entirely within their industry. One of the first questions that we ask our entrepreneurs when they come into the program and where you see it most is in the professions: lawyers, accountants, engineers, architects. I’ll say, “Well, what is it that you are?” And they’ll say, “Well, I’m a lawyer. I’m a tax lawyer.” And I said, “Are you a tax lawyer or are you an entrepreneur who has a specialty in tax law?”

Okay. It makes a big difference, because if you see yourself as a tax lawyer, then you’re saying that you’re a better paid factory worker. You’re a manual laborer. But if you’re an entrepreneur, it’s a fairly recent idea in human history. There’s always been entrepreneurs, but it wasn’t until about the beginning of the 1800s that you start seeing this really different class of people in the marketplace, who, it didn’t matter how they were born, they were taking advantage of some new multiplier technology. Steam power being a great example. Around 1800, steam power came on.

And anybody who had a bright vision for themselves and had the wherewithal to figure out what needs could be satisfied with a new technology, all of a sudden they became rich. They became rich. And it was very disruptive, because up until then it was based on aristocracy and you were born into wealth or you were born into poverty. There was no crossover.

So what we’re saying is anybody who comes into Strategic Coach, I said, “I’m not going to tell you anything about your particular industry.” I said, “You know all the best practice people in your industry and they have workshops and they have conferences and you go to them, but they don’t know how to be entrepreneurs. You know how to create a really well-paying job, but you haven’t created a company.”

A company is a totally different realm and I would say the vast majority of entrepreneurs, 95% of entrepreneurs haven’t really created a company. They’ve just created a really well-paying job which requires their presence and their attendance. I said, “You don’t get any payout for your company. If you’re the company, you need to have a structure.” I’ll give you an example. We started the company in 1989, and we’re about 270 times what our first year revenues were, and that was a great year. I was very happy for the first year, but we’re about 270 times.

Along the way, what I did is I created other coaches so it wasn’t just Dan, the coach. So we have 16 other coaches. And I’ll give you a little example. In 1994, that year our company did 144 workshop days, 36 per quarter. One coach: me. Last year we did 600 workshop days and I did 12. 588 were done by other coaches. And our coaches are great. They’re clients who have coaching instincts and they do it.

So about four years ago, I met one of our clients who’s an M&A specialist, and I laid out all the facts just in conversation, “This is our revenues. We have no debt. It’s repeatable income, around 70% is repeatable for one year.” I put the whole structure together. And I said, “So right off the top, I don’t have any relatives on staff.” The first thing they look for, “Any relatives working for you?” And he gave me a number. It was a big number. It was probably four times revenue for that year. He said, “We got a lot of structures.”

Then something happened in the marketplace, and this is a great breakthrough that the US Patent Office sometime in the last 10 years recognized that up until about 10 years ago, to get a patent, you had to have a technological component for what you were doing. Sometime in the last 10 years, the patent bureaus decided that the internet is the technological component. So they’ve introduced education and entertainment as patentable processes. So in the last three years, we’ve gotten 82 patents. 82 patents.

And these are our thinking tools, Lifetime Extender, Free Focus and Buffer Days. You know the routine that you learn in the first three days, and we’ve got 82 of them. We’re averaging about 25. I get a new patent about every two weeks. So I saw this M&A specialist, and I said, “This has happened in the last three years.” And he said, “Immediately it doubles the valuation of your company.”

So what John’s saying here, as you go through the four stages, more and more you get paid for your creativity, retail, you get paid for your retail. But if you structure it, you record it, you package it, it is even greater than what you got paid for your creativity.

Louis Diamond:

Super interesting personal anecdote, and I appreciate you sharing that because that definitely did drive the point home for me. I see the applicability to probably any industry, but especially to any financial advisor.

Dan Sullivan:

Oh, yeah.

Louis Diamond:

The best RIA firms, the best advisors, they pretty much all start off with a cult of personality founder who’s the rainmaker. And then the practices that really grow and scale and are valuable are more platforms. That’s what private equity wants to invest in. And those are the firms that get the higher multiples.

Dan Sullivan:

Yeah. So the big thing is there’s a really, really great IP lawyer. He’s in our program and he’s made the breakthrough, and he’s the first IP lawyer that doesn’t charge by the hour. He charges by the patent. If the IP lawyer charges by the hour, it’s a very slow patent. If he charges by the patent, it’s a very fast patent.

But the big thing, he showed a slide that in just big corporations, 1980, you took big corp, Fortune 500, the S&P 500, more than 80% of their valuation was tangible. It was property, it was real estate, it was fleets, it was equipment. Last year, more than 80% were intangibles. It was your ideas, intellectual. If you look at Elon Musk, it’s all intellectual capital.

If you look at Meta, you look at anything, it’s intellectual. It’s not tangibles. So we’ve entered into that new world and AI has introduced us to that new world. It’s new processes, new structures, new approaches and it’s really interesting. It’s hard for entrepreneurs to get their idea that your creativity is actually property.

Louis Diamond:

It sounds like the ultimate challenge for anyone listening is translate your process, your ideas, the stuff that you’re doing by instinct as you both had said, and turn it into something patentable or something repeatable that another advisor, another executive, another owner can pick up and deploy and scale.

John Bowen:

We share the process in chapter four. It’s the fourth greater multiplier. And we actually share Caldwell, the attorney that Dan’s talking about, his story and the value creation. He’s now the major player in that space. And this is where we as advisors, we’re given a twofer, Dan and Louis, is that you can help your clients, but you can do this yourself too. You’ve been involved in a number of large transactions.

The difference, I had a $2 billion advisory practice I sold in ’98, and we sold for 16 times earnings. And a big part of it, we were in that blue ocean. We had agents that we created and strategic process that would run without me, and it did type thing. And it continued to grow and went for about 10 fold what I sold for a number of years later. This is something that’s very real.

Louis Diamond:

Absolutely. I got two more questions for you guys because I know you’re both busy. For an advisor who feels like they’ve won the growth game, they grow 10, 15, 20% per year, they’re charged up, they’re on the Barron’s list, the Forbes list, they’re hitting their AUM milestones, they built an amazing team, they have a family member in the business. They have everything that anyone could want. What does the next game look like for them? What’s the next frontier once you’ve achieved all those things that from the outside looking in, seems like you have it all? What’s the next game to play?

John Bowen:

Well, we’re going to both say The Greater Game, but the-

Dan Sullivan:

Well, tell them about the dashboard, John, because the book is just part of the deal here. It gives you the landscape. There’s a great tool that comes with the book. So tell them about the dashboard.

John Bowen:

Really what we wanted to do is to create kind of a community just around the book. Dan and I and team built a dashboard. We were very creative on naming, thegreatergamedashboard.com. You can go in and we’re now studying every month over 500 successful entrepreneurs. We have that data in here. You’ll be able to see how you compare at each of these stages, the four stages, the 10 multipliers. And you’re going to get specific recommendations. This is for entrepreneurs.

But again, you should do it. If you’re a financial advisor, you have an equity ownership, you should definitely be doing it as well. And one of the things that we see over and over again, and Louis, you probably see this a lot in the conversations. They have advisors who have already won. They don’t know what the next game is. And it’s easy to check out at that point. It’s easy to frustrate the next generation of leaders and so on.

If you take the time to really see what the opportunities are and architect to realize that vision, you can create, whether it’s selling the practice, creating tremendous value there or designing a role for yourself, maybe it’s executive chairman type for that business that you can guide it with the vision and what you’ve brought and strategy. But bring that team up. That’s going to create so much value, so much impact and you can design it for the life that you want. And that’s where I get very excited.

Louis Diamond:

I can hear the passion in your voice. Dan, let’s finish with you. Given all of your experience working with entrepreneurs, advisors, business owners, et cetera, what’s the one move that you’ve seen the most successful entrepreneurs in your orbit make that’s changed the trajectory of their firms and their life more than anything else?

Dan Sullivan:

I’ll answer it in a little roundabout way. Periodically, I have a thinking tool. I said, “If everything was taken away from you as an entrepreneur and they moved you 1,000 miles away, what’s the one thing that you would take with you? It has to be portable. So what is the most portable thing that you have that you would start over again with the greatest value that you had created previously? What would it be? And then you would rebuild what you’ve already created, but you would do it much faster. What would be the one thing?” It’s an interesting thought.

But in our concept, it’s called unique ability, that there’s something about you, as an individual, that first of all gave you enough confidence to become an entrepreneur because it’s risky. It’s a risky proposition. It’s guessing and betting and it’s risky business and it’s unique ability. So the starting point for all growth in Strategic Coach is that there’s something about you that’s absolutely unique. You don’t have any competitors on this and it has two qualities. One is that you’re so good at it, you don’t take it seriously. You’ve done this since you were a child and it just comes to you naturally and you don’t see the significance of it.

When you’re in Coach, you start seeing the significance of it. And the second thing is you just absolutely love doing it. It’s what you love doing most of all. It comes to you naturally. You don’t even have to think about it. And then you begin to realize that anything else you’re doing as the founder and the owner of your company, probably somebody else can do. So you’re doing 20 things, but really you should be doing three things. The other 17 things still need to be done but not by you. And that’s the breakthrough. You have to simplify in order to multiply.

Louis Diamond:

I absolutely love that. I know when I was in Coach, that was my biggest takeaway or realization was figuring out what my unique ability was because I think the two components, they’re so critical. Just because you’re good at something, if you don’t like it, then you shouldn’t build a company around it and that shouldn’t be what you should be doing. It should be the things that you’re world-class at, you don’t have competition in, but at the same time, you actually enjoy it. It lights you up, lets you get out of bed, et cetera.

Dan Sullivan:

I’ve got a client in July. I’ll see him in July and he started with me. This is before I actually started the workshop program. This is when I was still doing one-on-one client. He’s a wealth manager here in Toronto and I’ve seen him every quarter for 39 years. And he’s way over 100 times what he was there, and he says, “I got to get simpler. I got to get simpler.” He says, “I’m doing too much and everything.” So this is almost 120 quarters he’s done this. He’s 75. He runs six marathons a year. He’s automatically guaranteed Boston. He’s automatically guaranteed London. He’s automatically guaranteed New York and everything like that and just remarkable.

John Bowen:

And he’s just getting started.

Dan Sullivan:

Yeah, he’s 72, 73, says it just gets better as you go along. One thing, an interesting statistic, and I don’t think, John, I’ve actually told you this. So the US is the best research economy in the world. The number of research looking at how Americans perform is really interesting, but they take the decades with entrepreneurs. So they have from 10 to 20 entrepreneurs, growth of entrepreneurs, 10 years old, and then they go up through the decades.

The biggest percentage of change in any decade is from 70 to 80. There’s been more new entrepreneurs growing between 70 and 80 than any other decade as a percentage. The reason is because it’s mostly idea work that we’re doing right now. We’re not doing manual labor anymore. We’re doing idea work. And these are individuals who say, “I love what I’m doing. I’m more useful.”

They’ve worked for someone else for 70 years and then they become an entrepreneur, and of course AI is helping them do this. So we’re in a vastly new world now. 82 years, this is the biggest change that I’ve seen just in the last three years, is just a new world. And the greater game is now possible. The greater game that John, what he’s structuring, this game was not possible 25 years ago and it’s possible now.

Louis Diamond:

It’s a great charge to everyone listening and a good reminder to pick up a copy of his book. I know I certainly will. I wouldn’t normally ask you where to buy it, but I assume Amazon and just Google it or ChatGPT, I’m sure you can find it.

Dan Sullivan:

They’ll be in all the bookstores.

Louis Diamond:

There we go. Thank you both.

John Bowen:

Thank you.

Mindy Diamond:

As a financial advisor, you hold yourself to the highest standards of integrity, honesty, and credibility. You are successful because you take your professional responsibility seriously and are dedicated to your clients, but are you living your best business life? Are your goals aligned with your firms or could a better option exist? Should I Stay or Should I Go? is a book written with you in mind.

It’s a self-guided journey that walks you through the key steps that we take with our advisor clients. This strategic thought process and roadmap to professional self-discovery is designed to help you ask the right questions and think critically and objectively, whether you’re considering change or not. Learn how to get your copy at diamond-consultants.com/thebook.

Architecting 100x Growth: A “How-To” From Legends Dan Sullivan and John Bowen

A conversation with Louis Diamond and Co-Authors of The Greater Game, Dan Sullivan of Strategic Coach and John Bowen of CEG Insights.

Louis Diamond:

Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is Architecting 100x Growth: A “How-To” From Legends Dan Sullivan and John Bowen, a conversation with the industry’s top coaches and co-authors of The Greater Game. I’m Louis Diamond, and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors.

Mindy Diamond:

At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned.

And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education-driven and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at 908-879-1002.

Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual Advisor Transition Report. It’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport.

Louis Diamond:

Most entrepreneurs and many advisors spend years optimizing for growth without realizing they’re building a business that still depends entirely on them. Revenue and complexity grow; enterprise value, transferability, and freedom often lag far behind. Dan Sullivan and John Bowen argue that the issue isn’t effort or intelligence; it’s architecture. No doubt these are familiar names in the wealth management industry, but just to set the stage, Dan is the co-founder of Strategic Coach, and John is the founder of CEG Elevate Group and CEG Insights.

Together, they spent decades coaching and studying high-performing entrepreneurs and advisory firms. Their latest book, one they joined forces on, The Greater Game, lays out a very different framework for thinking about growth, one built around scalability, transferrable value, and long-term leverage rather than incremental optimization. What makes this conversation especially relevant for advisors is that the framework cuts both ways.

It applies to the entrepreneurial clients that advisors serve, as well as to the advisory firms themselves. And in many cases, the same founder dependency and expertise trap that limits a client’s enterprise value is quietly limiting the advisor’s business too. We talk about the difference between operators and architects, why 100 times growth can actually be easier than two times growth, where businesses tend to stall as they scale and how advisors can start thinking differently about their own firms, particularly when it comes to enterprise value, succession, and long-term optionality.

It’s rare access to a conversation with two of our industry’s legends whose advice and counsel has not only helped to transform the business lives of many of our listeners, but also my own. So let’s get to it. Dan and John, thank you both for joining us today.

Dan Sullivan:

Thank you, Lou. It’s a real pleasure.

John Bowen:

I’ve had the privilege of joining you before, but never with my co-author, Dan Sullivan, and I’m excited to share what we’re doing because I think it can make a big impact in our advisor industry.

Louis Diamond:

No doubt about it. Yeah, this has been an interview I’ve been very excited to host. So let’s jump right in. Dan Sullivan, I think you are a man that needs little introduction. So many advisors in the industry are fans or clients of your firm, Strategic Coach, but for those who aren’t as familiar or need a refresh, can you just give some quick context into why you started Strategic Coach and what the company does today?

Dan Sullivan:

Yeah. Well, it goes back to 1974. I was a copywriter at BBDO, the Canadian branch of BBDO, big global advertising agency. It still is. But I’ve been sort of a lifetime coach. I remember once when my mother finally caught up with what I was doing in life and I was describing what I was doing, she says, “Well, you were doing that when you were a child. You were talking to adults and you were asking adults about their experiences.”

And I said, “Yeah, I could do this when I was eight or nine years old, but it took me a long time to get a business model wrapped around it.” But I jumped out in 1974 and started coaching anybody, but it actually turned out that entrepreneurs were the best people to coach because they would write a check on the spot and they would make a decision on the spot and I needed cashflow and I did it.

So I’ve been personally, as a Strategic Coach, which was named by someone else. You’re just out there trying to get cashflow to pay for the rent. So I started in ’74, and I was lucky and it really relates to your target audience, Lou. Right off the bat, I got what are called top-of-the-table life insurance agents. And that was really, really great because life insurance agents are purely a conceptual business.

So someone can get a new idea at breakfast and they can have a new business by dinnertime just because they can change their mindset. And that moved on. And I did that for 15 years, just one-on-one, 1970s, 1980s. And then, I’d had enough experience that we turned it into a workshop program in 1989. We’ve been at it ever since.

So I was at a talk. Joe Polish is a great friend of ours, Joe Polish with Genius Network. And he had a speaker there, and he says, “You’re one of the original gangsters, aren’t you? You’re one of the first people.” And I said, “I don’t know if I’m the original, but I think I’m the only surviving one.” So it’s 52 years that I’ve been doing what I’m doing. And I had the good fortune to meet John in around 2009. John, was that the year? 2009?

John Bowen:

Yeah, in the little economic downturn that everybody knows about here.

Dan Sullivan:

Yeah. And John had a great coaching program and we had a great coaching program. And over the years, we’ve talked a lot about what makes a entrepreneur exponential in their thinking. And finally, about two years ago, we decided, let’s write a book about this. And that’s the new book, which is called The Greater Game. That’s where this all started. It’s just been a great pleasure because we sync very well.

Louis Diamond:

Amazing. And Dan, I think a lot of people likely know you either from Strategic Coach. I know I’m personally a big fan of two of your books and I know of others, The Gap and The Gain and Who Not How. We’re going to talk about your new book, but I think it’d just be helpful. Can you talk about the key premise of some of your prior books, The Gap and The Gain and Who Not How?

Dan Sullivan:

As a result of my membership, I’m a member in other groups. And so Joe Polish of Genius Network fame, he’s been in my program for 28 years, and I’ve been in his program for 15 years. And there was a writer who was in one of the first Genius Network workshops, and he approached me. And I created a lot of books, but I create small books and they’re self-published. I do a book a quarter. I’m 82 in about three weeks.

So when I was 70, I said, “I’m going to give myself a 25-year project. I’ll write 100 books in 100 quarters.” And this is quarter number 47, and I’m writing my 47th book. But they’re little books. They’re 60, 70 pages. They’re one-idea books. And Ben Hardy, who was, at that time, the number one writer on Medium, which is a blogging type medium, he approached me, and he said, “I know you don’t write big books and you don’t have publisher books. But,” he said, “if you ever did,” he said, “I’d like to collaborate.”

And that was a great good fortune on my part. So we produced three books in five years. The first book was Who Not How. Who Not How basically says when you have a goal, the biggest problem with the goal, you’re excited about the goal, but you’re not excited about doing it. So you find “Whos” who help you and you build teamwork around it. And that was a big seller.

And then, we had another concept which was called The Gap and The Gain that entrepreneurs, depending on how they measure their progress, can be perpetually unhappy or they can be perpetually motivated. And it all depends on how they measure their progress, how they measure their goal setting and their goal achievement. And then the third book, which has really turned out to be the big one, up until this book, this book will be bigger. It’s called 10x Is Easier Than 2x.

So hence, Coach, everybody has a 10x game plan. Whatever number they want to choose, revenues, personal net worth, whatever, you have a framework of 10x, which is sometime in the future, but you use that future framework for deciding what you’re going to do today that will end up as a 10x result. I thought that was going to be our formula for the rest of my life until I met John.

And then John is a great AI practitioner. And I began to realize that that 10x is now becoming 100x for really top-notch entrepreneurs, but the 10x is easier than 2x. And we just crossed the million mark with the three books, which is really good. And it’s great for lead… we’re having people show up and they’ve really bought into what Strategic Coach is. We have a good size company. We’re not a small company. We have 120 team members. We’re in five centers: Los Angeles, Vancouver, Chicago, Toronto and London, England.

But it’s been really great because we’ve really grown with technological change and it’s basically, we teach people how to think about their thinking. And Lou, you were in for three years, both in-person and virtual. So you know what the starting structure of it is, but I’m in love with entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs are crucial characters on the planet, but mostly they operate alone and what we’ve done is create a community for them.

Louis Diamond:

Fantastic. Thank you, Dan. And John, I think perfect segue to you, because I know you’ve spent your career serving and helping entrepreneurs as well, mostly within financial services or within wealth management. And you’ve been very kind to share some of your amazing research on advisors serving entrepreneurial clients in the past. But for anyone who’s missed those episodes, similar question for you, can you share what your companies do? CEG Elevate, CEG Insights, your new research, and then we’ll dive into your exciting new book.

John Bowen:

Thank you, Louis. And Dan and I are very excited about just entrepreneurs in general. Dan is, because he’s working with them directly. The best clients for financial advisors are entrepreneurs, largely, if you’re going to go high net worth, ultra-high net worth. So we have a company, CEG Elevate, which is our parent company. Two of the companies that are really interesting for this podcast is CEG Insights and this is our research arm. And we’ll study about 20,000 high net worth, ultra-high net worth clients this year in depth and 6,000 up to 7,000 we’ll do just of entrepreneurs.

And this is in the partnership. Lou, I invited you up to… We were skiing two years ago in Park City and you couldn’t join us. But Dan and I made a deal to do a 25-year partnership studying entrepreneurship, one for Strategic Coach and his coaching clients, but really the opportunity for financial advisors. And it’s probably just as well because I came down, and I think, Dan, you were 80 at the time and I was 69. I’m 70 now.

And I was skiing with a whole bunch of 40-year-olds, and they’re all going, “You guys are way too optimistic.” And Dan and I are just getting started on this. And the other company that’s applicable is CEG Worldwide, where we have the privilege of coaching and training some of the top financial advisors, those aspiring, and also working with the enterprises to really help move up market and do this great experience.

Louis Diamond:

Fantastic. Dan, question for you. What was the core problem you and John were trying to solve in your new book, The Greater Game? What is it that existing frameworks weren’t touching? And then John, I’ll have a follow-up question for you after that.

Dan Sullivan:

Yeah. Well, by the very nature of what we do, we’re not going for wannabes. We’re not going for entrepreneurs who hope to be really successful someday. We’re engaging with and we’re registering into both of our communities, people who, they’re already great. They’re already doing so many things right, but they’re kind of doing it unconsciously. They just have a unique ability for growth. They have a unique ability for networking and expansion, but the very, very core is they’ve done it on their own.

And they’ve done it out of intuition and they’ve done it out of ambition and motivation. But their biggest problem is that they’re really lonely. I’m in my sixth decade now of coaching entrepreneurs, and people say, “Well, what’s the number one problem that entrepreneurs face?” And I said, “Loneliness.” They can’t explain themselves to the family they grew up with. They can’t explain themselves with their lifetime friends. They have thoughts about how they’re operating.

And they take enormous pride in their ability to transform difficulties into breakthroughs, but they don’t have anybody to talk to. So what we’ve created is a community where when you walk in the room, everybody in that room immediately understands you. Everybody immediately applauds what you’ve done. Everybody is inspired by you. So my framework is I call, “What you’ve done on your own, you’re great. You’re a winner already, but who do you talk to?” You have to hide a lot of your success because they just won’t understand what it is that actually motivates you.

And the beauty of the partnership with John is the vast majority of our clients are in 70 or 80 different industries, so they’re not peculiar. We start off with financial services, especially life insurance. But what I notice is that all the difficulty they get into life is they’re trying to communicate with people who don’t understand them.

And what we’re saying is, “Stage one, you did it on your own, you’re great by any standard whatsoever. You check all the boxes for being a successful person, but you don’t really have any way to actually check out how other people are doing this.” And so we’ve created a community, and John has created a community where people, immediately, there’s understanding. And not only that, but there’s opportunity because they’re unique in their own ways.

Every one of our entrepreneurs has created a very, very unique pattern of success that if they were with 10 other people, they could learn from this. If they were with 30 other people, they would learn even more. So that’s what we’ve done. So stage two is now joining a community where everybody gets you.

Louis Diamond:

Interesting. And that’s the premise of the book. We don’t want to have people not buy it, but what is the greater game? What’s the game that folks are playing and pursuing and how do you make it greater?

Dan Sullivan:

I tell you, what I’ve always been lacking, I’m sort of intuitive like most entrepreneurs are. We’ve done about 300 times growth since we started the program. But it’s intuitive. I don’t have any research to back this up. I’m low on fact finder. I find, generally speaking, the best facts are just the facts that I make up, but at a certain point, you’d like to have some actual research to back me up. So I’ve gone as far as I can go with our company without real research.

Then John comes into the picture, and now we got some real research. And I will say this, this is generally true. It’s not just a problem with me that I don’t have research. I find that entrepreneurism is one of the least researched subjects on the planet. And John comes along and he’s done all the backfill for how entrepreneurs actually perform and I’ve got research to prove it.

Louis Diamond:

Perfect. Yeah, John, question for you. So what is The Greater Game? And then, how do you think it relates to what financial advisors have been missing?

John Bowen:

One of the things that we as financial advisors all want to work with people who have already won. And there’s no better group than entrepreneurs, successful entrepreneurs. If we look at people with 25 million or more of investible assets across all households in the US, 90% are entrepreneurs. And at the 5 to 25 million of investible assets, it’s three out of four. So at CEG Worldwide, we’ve always wanted to really understand advisors.

And we said we’ll partner with Dan and his passion with entrepreneurs, we’ll go ahead and study them so that we can bring insights on how we can better serve them. And the very first thing we want to do is understand, yeah, there’s very different stages that we see of entrepreneurs and we talk about the whole concept of The Greater Game. And the idea here is we wanted to identify… And I’ll share some PowerPoint slides. I know a lot of us are listening and I just want to walk through this, but Louis will have it in show notes, his team will.

We really saw four areas. The first one was level one, stage one was foundation for freedom. They had ambition, the vision, but they really needed security. And Dan calls this, and I love this term, “cash confidence.” But it’s really using a financial advisor to have security. And one of the things, the last time I was on with you, Louis, we talked about there’s 59.2% of entrepreneurs who want to switch advisors because they don’t believe they have that security.

And that’s kind of the foundation. And this is why you’re never going to read a more friendly financial advisor book for entrepreneurs than this because in our coaching program, we’re developing workshops and so on to bring this message out. And then the second level is where now we saw… and there were four levels. Dan and I identified 5.4% of these entrepreneurs that were just killing it and they were going through all four levels.

The second level was energy for expansion. They were very motivated, they were excited about getting up and really the intellectual property, and Dan’s been one of the big leaders in this, is so much of what we know… And as I go through this too, I want every one of the advisors to think about it’s not only your entrepreneurial clients, this is for you too, is having this intellectual property, getting it out of your head so that your business is not founder-dependent or personality-dependent. You’ve got this enterprise. And then, the third level where it really took off was collaboration and multiplication. And Dan talked about the power of community and this is so big.

And for advisors, the community is often working with other professionals, the accountants, the attorneys, the investment bankers. Matter of fact, when we survey, we found that 40% of the people with 25 million or more that they invest with an advisor came through an investment banker. So creating that community, teamwork, having the right team and then autonomy. Can you step away from your practice? The entrepreneurs step away 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, making that independence, moving from the founder-dependent to the enterprise.

And the last level was exponential. And this is all along the way, the AI opportunities to accelerate this and augment this is really real, but the agency where the blue ocean, creating new markets, then getting the commitment and courage. And at each of these levels, we saw different entrepreneurs just really taking off. And one of the things that’s so important, Louis, for what we’re talking about today is advisors all are ready to treat stage one, the foundation for freedom, but they don’t really understand the other stages, and that’s really what entrepreneurs want.

So if you want to work in this market, it’s very important for you to understand what you can do to help. The difference is often for an entrepreneur, a three to five multiplier versus 15, the level one or stage one to stage four. And this is where it gets really exciting.

Louis Diamond:

This would be a question for John. You found, and he’s mentioned it, that only 5.4% of entrepreneurs operate as architects versus optimizers. Can you explain the difference between those two personas?

John Bowen:

Well, I’m going to set up the research and let Dan really bring it home. But Dan and I came up with this framework, The Greater Game and the 10 Multipliers, and we’ve got that and we’re putting it in order and we wanted to really confirm. And everything we do is empirical research. So we reached out to 1,000 very successful entrepreneurs, 1,016. And it became very clear that the 5.4% of them were actually executing on all these levels and they were just distancing everyone else.

And what we came up with, and Dan mentioned it earlier, that his book, 10x Is Easier Than 2x, but we said, what we’re seeing… and we’ve got a whole bunch, I think it’s 26 stories in the book of entrepreneurs, we’re seeing so many people blow this out that 100x is easier than 2x, and it forces a whole different mindset where if you’re optimizing, you’re kind of looking incrementally.

But when you step back as an architect, big picture, wow, huge opportunity, both for entrepreneurs and advisors that are entrepreneurs to make a real big difference. This is something you’ve really coached to and had the privilege of working with thousands of entrepreneurs helping them on that journey.

Dan Sullivan:

Yeah. One of the things that was confusing for me, Lou, when I first started coaching, because everybody who came in to coach, you remember when you came into your first Chicago workshop, that everybody in the room was motivated. I’m not a motivational speaker. I don’t have to motivate the entrepreneurs who are in Coach. They’re already motivated. The problem is the focus of their ambition and focus.

And what we discovered was that there were two types that showed up. I didn’t really understand it, but they’re what I call status-oriented entrepreneurs. And what they are when they were a kid, they didn’t have anything. Their family wasn’t at the top of the pole. When they were born, they grew up in a certain community, but there were certain people who lived in the right part of town and they had really big houses and everything about their lifestyle was way above everybody else in the lifestyle.

And they saw the lack of what they had, because of the way they were born, that they were going to match it. But the matching was based in not only what the big home looks like. They’ve got other homes, they’ve got vacation homes. They belong to clubs. There’s clubs for the winners, and the losers aren’t part of those clubs, golf courses and boating clubs and everything else.

And what I noticed was their motivation was simply to get to that point where they had the same sort of status. And they’re interesting for a while, but once they’ve gotten to that level of status, they’re not interesting anymore. They go on cruise control at that point and they just want to stay within that framework. But the really interesting entrepreneurs, and we really highlight them in the book, it’s just about growth. So when they get to one level, they say, “That’s great. Okay, now I’ve got a new baseline and now I want to grow even further.”

And we have one story, very, very interesting. When he came into my Chicago workshop, I met him and he said, “I’ve got a big engineering company.” This is Paul VanDuyne. He’s out of the Quad City area of Iowa. And he says, “My ambition for your program is for three years, I’m just going to plan my retirement.” And I said, “Well, we’ve got some thoughts about that.” So I said, “Just do your first workshop and we’ll talk about it 90 days from now.” And he came back and he had an entirely different game plan, and he’s grown basically 250 times in his last 13 years. He’s completely transformed the industry that he’s in and he had this growth.

So what we’re looking for in The Greater Game, we’re looking for those entrepreneurs who are already successful, but they don’t see any stopping point. They’ll grow to one level and then they say, “Okay, that’s the new baseline. Now I grow to another level.” Meanwhile, three years ago, what happened is the world got a new capability called AI. AI, you’re not talking 10x. If you use it properly… a lot of people are in the very early stages here, but we can see the ones who are applying it for growth.

John has set up an entire research structure just to measure the people, and what are the people who are just motivated by growth? They don’t see any stopping point. They don’t see any retirement age. They’re just growing. They’re in better health now than they were when they started their ambition. One of the great breakthroughs we’re having now is the impact of AI on physical fitness and health right now. And so you have 70-year-olds now who are way more ambitious at 70 than they were at 50.

So we think a whole new world is being created in front of us, but there isn’t the research to measure what the real winners of this new game are actually doing. And The Greater Game is a lot of Strategic Coach thinking tools, but it’s also the phenomenal research that John is doing, and we’re measuring exactly what are these people who just constantly grow, what are they actually doing?

John Bowen:

Louis, if I can jump in, I want to go back to Paul just for a second because he was going to do something classical, and Dan is also my coach and I was going to do something similar. Paul told Dan that he was going to retire at 65, and his wife. And he were going to open up a little mom-and-pop coffee shop. And the reason so many of the entrepreneurs are caught in the 2x optimization is they’re grinding it out. They’re working harder to be more successful and the desire to do that isn’t very high.

That’s why you retire. On the other hand, what we found, the ones working on 100x are building platforms and ecosystems. They’re architected. And as we were writing the book, CEG grew by 58%. I’m going to give a lot of credit to the book, because as Dan and I were working on the processes, I wanted to walk all the talks. This is where the world is changing. I want everybody to think as a financial advisor, you’re being served twice, one with The Greater Game, they don’t care about a few basis points on returns. That’s table stakes.

So much of the level one is taking care of the investment side, mitigating taxes, taking care of the areas, protecting the assets, some charitable planning, maybe shoot in some succession planning. I can tell you only 6% of the entrepreneurs actually feel they’re getting that from you, but that’s only level one. If you can help them from each of the stages, stage one through four, and help them create that vision, they’re going to love you to death.

Because many of them want to continue in this path and create tremendous value, bigger impact, not creating legacies in the sense of enduring legacies, but active legacies. Last year, my wife and I set up a private foundation. I called it The Greater Game Foundation. I just love this so much, the difference that you can make, and I want to do it while I’m living, not while I’m gone type of thing. I think that’s one Dan and I very much share.

Louis Diamond:

Awesome. You wrote the book 10x Is Easier Than 2x, but now you’re claiming 100x is easier than 2x. How can that be the case?

Dan Sullivan:

The interesting thing, one of my points of proof on the original idea, the 10x Mind Expander, I use a lot of what the entrepreneurs have already done to prove the future. In other words, I said… You’ll remember the exercise, Lou. And I said, “I want you to pick your best number.” Everybody’s got a best number. It’s revenue, it’s net worth, whatever. And I said, “I just want you to multiply by 10.”

And immediately there’s this reaction. He says, “You know how hard it was to get to just where I am 10 times?” And I said, “Well, you’ve already done 10 times. You’ve probably done 10 times twice. So let’s go back to the beginning. When were you 1/10 of where you are right now?” And they can nail it. They can tell you the year, they can tell you the month when they were 1/10 of where they were.

And I said, “Let’s write the actual structure that got you from 1/10 to where you are right now.” And there’s five stages, and usually it’s an event, it’s a new relationship and all of a sudden they get a big check. And we measure, as entrepreneurs, size of check is a good scorecard. When you’re first starting, you got a $10,000 check, that was the biggest check. But about five years later, you get a $100,000 check, and all of a sudden it seems strange at breakfast, but by dinner you’ve normalized the idea, “Well, I know what it’s like to get a much bigger check, a 10 times check.”

And so I have them create five growth stages that took them from where they were 1/10 to where they are right now, and I said, “Now let’s go back and talk about doing 10 times more.” And what they recognize, 80% who’ve got them 10 times the first time is going to be the same. It’s relationship, it’s having a great team, it’s having a simple approach that always works and it’s about the kind end customer. It’s not about them. It’s about who is it that you’re being a hero to in the marketplace.

Because the truth is people don’t want to have a lot of relationships as they grow. They’d like to have one relationship to grow. They’d like to have an advisor who’s growing with them. But then John introduced me to the whole world of AI and I said, “We’re not talking 10 times anymore. We’re talking 100 times.” I said, “If you apply this new form of thinking, because it is an entirely new form of thinking, to what you’re doing right now, you can see that 10 times is going to happen just by doing three or four things where you’re eliminating waste, you’re eliminating things that just don’t work anymore, changing relationships, changing teamwork, changing collaborations in the marketplace.”

But meanwhile, this new world of thinking is making you healthier. It’s making you more fit. So where before you thought you wouldn’t have the energy at 70, you now have more energy at 70 than you had at 50. So you’re the only one who says when it’s going to stop. I’m 82 in three weeks. We’re having this… I’m 82 and I’m way more ambitious at 82 than I was at 52. And the world is, because the world outside in terms of technological capability and access is way, way bigger in my 82nd year than it was in my 52nd year, and I love the growth.

I have to tell you that the greatest point where AI is going to have the impact is going to be making money. The big titans, the Metas, the Googles, the Nvidias, what do they have in common? It’s about the money and where AI is being applied most is how you do new things with money. So that’s where the 100 times now comes from. I’ve normalized it. I said, “We’re not talking a 10x game anymore. We’re talking 100x game.” But the number on the scoreboard isn’t the issue. The scoreboard is, are you actually having fun?

Louis Diamond:

Yeah, we call it living your best business life. That’s our major barometer in charge. John, I don’t know if you could pull up your slides again, but I want to talk about the bridge between stage two in your pyramid to stage three. So that’s from expertise into scalable property. Can you explain how this relates to a financial advisor or an independent business owner and why this concept is so important for the valuation of a business?

John Bowen:

The book, it’s written for entrepreneurs, but I wanted to create some bridges while we’re together with Louis on really what’s going on for financial advisors and how you can help them. So if they’re at our stage one, Dan and my stage one of The Greater Game, and they want to go to two, they’re kind of dreaming oftentimes, and we want to help them begin creating the architectural structure.

And as an advisor, this is really going to encourage everybody to read chapter two, The Greater Security. It talks about really the VFO, Virtual Family Office structure that they want, and you got to help them get financially solid, building personal wealth outside of the business, tax, estate, insurance, business structure. That’s what we all do today. Then though, if they want to move from level two to three, what we find over and over again, advisors are not equipped to do this, because what we’re taking is that founder where everything’s in its head, we’re now helping them move from just having that expertise to having scalable property.

This is that codifying the process of building IP that’s transferable. And this is where the real valuation changes. Now, I’m not asking financial advisors to be the IP experts, but what the entrepreneurs want is they want somebody to help them curate and then coordinate between each of these levels. We go from three to four that the founder is indispensable, oftentimes at three. Now we want the team there to be invincible. And it’s not just the individual team as Dan was talking about. It’s the community. The collaboration is where this really takes off.

The noise of AI is making it harder to market, but by partnering, particularly as financial advisors, we can very quickly have groups. One of the reasons why I’m collaborating with Dan, I want to help our financial advisors to work with entrepreneurs. Dan wants that research. So this is the natural collaboration. But they’re interested here in governance, self-managing teams. One of the things that Strategic Coach is brilliant at, the pre-transaction they want.

And what we find so often is the indispensable discount. So many businesses sell, if they sell at all, they’re selling for three to five times multiplier, not advisory, but traditional businesses. Well, if you can make it to four, all of a sudden you’re now talking to 10 to 15 times multipliers. And think of it as if I’m a buyer and I’ve been involved in 50-some transactions, what happens is if the business is the guy, the gal, they’re the business, then you’re buying a very expensive job type thing.

So let’s just keep a simple one. They’re having a couple million dollars of EBITDA. And let’s say the high range of that, five times EBITDA is $10 million. Well, the difference at 15 times two million is 30. Now, a few basis points I don’t really care about. I really care about capturing that difference. And because there’s a machine working without, I can buy that machine and generate that cash flow and it’s also taking advantage of the vision.

And then when we get to level four, this is where most advisors make the biggest mistake is, “I’ve won. I’m at level four. I’ve got tremendous wealth.” Okay, but I’m now looking at significance. And I do want to go, “It’s not enduring legacy I’m looking for. I’m looking for active legacy. I’m looking for family governance.” Do I want to continue to build it like Dan and I’m doing at 70? I’m building the business so I can continue doing it as long as I want to do it.

At the same time, and I love the impact we have and I know you do too, Louis, for the impact you have. Why not build the platform that’s going to allow you to do that as long as you want to do that? And if you don’t want to do it, let’s create the most value to transfer. When you start having conversations like that with families, entrepreneur families, it just changes, and very few advisors can do that. And that’s what we’re finding. We have a coaching company, training company, we train those things. They’re winning, quite honestly, almost 100% of the time because entrepreneurs didn’t know that was available to them.

Louis Diamond:

Interesting. It seems like the difference between stage two in your pyramid, to leap to stage three or four, that seems like a pretty massive pivot point for valuation for building a scalable business, having a self-managing company, et cetera. Do you find or have you seen that advisors or entrepreneurs that are in stage two themselves, they kind of pattern-match when they’re working with their own clients and kind of manage their own clients into stage two, or is it not really connected?

John Bowen:

I think that once you get the bigger picture and see the greater game, you can help your clients. That is a very small percentage. Remember, it was only 5.4 of when we surveyed successful entrepreneurs were actually playing the greater game, all four levels, the 10 greater multipliers. So I think what we tend to do is we get stuck on what we can do. And all the training is for level one for financial advisors. We don’t know how to guide them through the other levels.

And really, the big difference from two to three, Dan and I’ve talked about this a lot, and I think Dan’s one of the biggest champions of this, is collaboration, putting together strategic partnerships. It could be with your competitors. This is for entrepreneurs, competitors, it could be various vendor partnerships.

But the ability to open up markets that way when you have now put together in level two your IP, value creation’s huge. For advisors, it’s putting together partnerships with centers of influence. When we survey top financial advisors, 70% of their best clients came through COI, Centers of Influence with accountants, attorneys, investment bankers, and so on. Well, let’s do it on purpose, be successful on purpose.

Louis Diamond:

Dan, question for you. In all your experience working with successful financial advisors, insurance producers, probably any entrepreneur, what do you feel are the most common things that folks do unintentionally to really hurt their enterprise value even long before, or if ever, they decide to sell their business?

Dan Sullivan:

Yeah, I think the biggest thing is they stay entirely within their industry. One of the first questions that we ask our entrepreneurs when they come into the program and where you see it most is in the professions: lawyers, accountants, engineers, architects. I’ll say, “Well, what is it that you are?” And they’ll say, “Well, I’m a lawyer. I’m a tax lawyer.” And I said, “Are you a tax lawyer or are you an entrepreneur who has a specialty in tax law?”

Okay. It makes a big difference, because if you see yourself as a tax lawyer, then you’re saying that you’re a better paid factory worker. You’re a manual laborer. But if you’re an entrepreneur, it’s a fairly recent idea in human history. There’s always been entrepreneurs, but it wasn’t until about the beginning of the 1800s that you start seeing this really different class of people in the marketplace, who, it didn’t matter how they were born, they were taking advantage of some new multiplier technology. Steam power being a great example. Around 1800, steam power came on.

And anybody who had a bright vision for themselves and had the wherewithal to figure out what needs could be satisfied with a new technology, all of a sudden they became rich. They became rich. And it was very disruptive, because up until then it was based on aristocracy and you were born into wealth or you were born into poverty. There was no crossover.

So what we’re saying is anybody who comes into Strategic Coach, I said, “I’m not going to tell you anything about your particular industry.” I said, “You know all the best practice people in your industry and they have workshops and they have conferences and you go to them, but they don’t know how to be entrepreneurs. You know how to create a really well-paying job, but you haven’t created a company.”

A company is a totally different realm and I would say the vast majority of entrepreneurs, 95% of entrepreneurs haven’t really created a company. They’ve just created a really well-paying job which requires their presence and their attendance. I said, “You don’t get any payout for your company. If you’re the company, you need to have a structure.” I’ll give you an example. We started the company in 1989, and we’re about 270 times what our first year revenues were, and that was a great year. I was very happy for the first year, but we’re about 270 times.

Along the way, what I did is I created other coaches so it wasn’t just Dan, the coach. So we have 16 other coaches. And I’ll give you a little example. In 1994, that year our company did 144 workshop days, 36 per quarter. One coach: me. Last year we did 600 workshop days and I did 12. 588 were done by other coaches. And our coaches are great. They’re clients who have coaching instincts and they do it.

So about four years ago, I met one of our clients who’s an M&A specialist, and I laid out all the facts just in conversation, “This is our revenues. We have no debt. It’s repeatable income, around 70% is repeatable for one year.” I put the whole structure together. And I said, “So right off the top, I don’t have any relatives on staff.” The first thing they look for, “Any relatives working for you?” And he gave me a number. It was a big number. It was probably four times revenue for that year. He said, “We got a lot of structures.”

Then something happened in the marketplace, and this is a great breakthrough that the US Patent Office sometime in the last 10 years recognized that up until about 10 years ago, to get a patent, you had to have a technological component for what you were doing. Sometime in the last 10 years, the patent bureaus decided that the internet is the technological component. So they’ve introduced education and entertainment as patentable processes. So in the last three years, we’ve gotten 82 patents. 82 patents.

And these are our thinking tools, Lifetime Extender, Free Focus and Buffer Days. You know the routine that you learn in the first three days, and we’ve got 82 of them. We’re averaging about 25. I get a new patent about every two weeks. So I saw this M&A specialist, and I said, “This has happened in the last three years.” And he said, “Immediately it doubles the valuation of your company.”

So what John’s saying here, as you go through the four stages, more and more you get paid for your creativity, retail, you get paid for your retail. But if you structure it, you record it, you package it, it is even greater than what you got paid for your creativity.

Louis Diamond:

Super interesting personal anecdote, and I appreciate you sharing that because that definitely did drive the point home for me. I see the applicability to probably any industry, but especially to any financial advisor.

Dan Sullivan:

Oh, yeah.

Louis Diamond:

The best RIA firms, the best advisors, they pretty much all start off with a cult of personality founder who’s the rainmaker. And then the practices that really grow and scale and are valuable are more platforms. That’s what private equity wants to invest in. And those are the firms that get the higher multiples.

Dan Sullivan:

Yeah. So the big thing is there’s a really, really great IP lawyer. He’s in our program and he’s made the breakthrough, and he’s the first IP lawyer that doesn’t charge by the hour. He charges by the patent. If the IP lawyer charges by the hour, it’s a very slow patent. If he charges by the patent, it’s a very fast patent.

But the big thing, he showed a slide that in just big corporations, 1980, you took big corp, Fortune 500, the S&P 500, more than 80% of their valuation was tangible. It was property, it was real estate, it was fleets, it was equipment. Last year, more than 80% were intangibles. It was your ideas, intellectual. If you look at Elon Musk, it’s all intellectual capital.

If you look at Meta, you look at anything, it’s intellectual. It’s not tangibles. So we’ve entered into that new world and AI has introduced us to that new world. It’s new processes, new structures, new approaches and it’s really interesting. It’s hard for entrepreneurs to get their idea that your creativity is actually property.

Louis Diamond:

It sounds like the ultimate challenge for anyone listening is translate your process, your ideas, the stuff that you’re doing by instinct as you both had said, and turn it into something patentable or something repeatable that another advisor, another executive, another owner can pick up and deploy and scale.

John Bowen:

We share the process in chapter four. It’s the fourth greater multiplier. And we actually share Caldwell, the attorney that Dan’s talking about, his story and the value creation. He’s now the major player in that space. And this is where we as advisors, we’re given a twofer, Dan and Louis, is that you can help your clients, but you can do this yourself too. You’ve been involved in a number of large transactions.

The difference, I had a $2 billion advisory practice I sold in ’98, and we sold for 16 times earnings. And a big part of it, we were in that blue ocean. We had agents that we created and strategic process that would run without me, and it did type thing. And it continued to grow and went for about 10 fold what I sold for a number of years later. This is something that’s very real.

Louis Diamond:

Absolutely. I got two more questions for you guys because I know you’re both busy. For an advisor who feels like they’ve won the growth game, they grow 10, 15, 20% per year, they’re charged up, they’re on the Barron’s list, the Forbes list, they’re hitting their AUM milestones, they built an amazing team, they have a family member in the business. They have everything that anyone could want. What does the next game look like for them? What’s the next frontier once you’ve achieved all those things that from the outside looking in, seems like you have it all? What’s the next game to play?

John Bowen:

Well, we’re going to both say The Greater Game, but the-

Dan Sullivan:

Well, tell them about the dashboard, John, because the book is just part of the deal here. It gives you the landscape. There’s a great tool that comes with the book. So tell them about the dashboard.

John Bowen:

Really what we wanted to do is to create kind of a community just around the book. Dan and I and team built a dashboard. We were very creative on naming, thegreatergamedashboard.com. You can go in and we’re now studying every month over 500 successful entrepreneurs. We have that data in here. You’ll be able to see how you compare at each of these stages, the four stages, the 10 multipliers. And you’re going to get specific recommendations. This is for entrepreneurs.

But again, you should do it. If you’re a financial advisor, you have an equity ownership, you should definitely be doing it as well. And one of the things that we see over and over again, and Louis, you probably see this a lot in the conversations. They have advisors who have already won. They don’t know what the next game is. And it’s easy to check out at that point. It’s easy to frustrate the next generation of leaders and so on.

If you take the time to really see what the opportunities are and architect to realize that vision, you can create, whether it’s selling the practice, creating tremendous value there or designing a role for yourself, maybe it’s executive chairman type for that business that you can guide it with the vision and what you’ve brought and strategy. But bring that team up. That’s going to create so much value, so much impact and you can design it for the life that you want. And that’s where I get very excited.

Louis Diamond:

I can hear the passion in your voice. Dan, let’s finish with you. Given all of your experience working with entrepreneurs, advisors, business owners, et cetera, what’s the one move that you’ve seen the most successful entrepreneurs in your orbit make that’s changed the trajectory of their firms and their life more than anything else?

Dan Sullivan:

I’ll answer it in a little roundabout way. Periodically, I have a thinking tool. I said, “If everything was taken away from you as an entrepreneur and they moved you 1,000 miles away, what’s the one thing that you would take with you? It has to be portable. So what is the most portable thing that you have that you would start over again with the greatest value that you had created previously? What would it be? And then you would rebuild what you’ve already created, but you would do it much faster. What would be the one thing?” It’s an interesting thought.

But in our concept, it’s called unique ability, that there’s something about you, as an individual, that first of all gave you enough confidence to become an entrepreneur because it’s risky. It’s a risky proposition. It’s guessing and betting and it’s risky business and it’s unique ability. So the starting point for all growth in Strategic Coach is that there’s something about you that’s absolutely unique. You don’t have any competitors on this and it has two qualities. One is that you’re so good at it, you don’t take it seriously. You’ve done this since you were a child and it just comes to you naturally and you don’t see the significance of it.

When you’re in Coach, you start seeing the significance of it. And the second thing is you just absolutely love doing it. It’s what you love doing most of all. It comes to you naturally. You don’t even have to think about it. And then you begin to realize that anything else you’re doing as the founder and the owner of your company, probably somebody else can do. So you’re doing 20 things, but really you should be doing three things. The other 17 things still need to be done but not by you. And that’s the breakthrough. You have to simplify in order to multiply.

Louis Diamond:

I absolutely love that. I know when I was in Coach, that was my biggest takeaway or realization was figuring out what my unique ability was because I think the two components, they’re so critical. Just because you’re good at something, if you don’t like it, then you shouldn’t build a company around it and that shouldn’t be what you should be doing. It should be the things that you’re world-class at, you don’t have competition in, but at the same time, you actually enjoy it. It lights you up, lets you get out of bed, et cetera.

Dan Sullivan:

I’ve got a client in July. I’ll see him in July and he started with me. This is before I actually started the workshop program. This is when I was still doing one-on-one client. He’s a wealth manager here in Toronto and I’ve seen him every quarter for 39 years. And he’s way over 100 times what he was there, and he says, “I got to get simpler. I got to get simpler.” He says, “I’m doing too much and everything.” So this is almost 120 quarters he’s done this. He’s 75. He runs six marathons a year. He’s automatically guaranteed Boston. He’s automatically guaranteed London. He’s automatically guaranteed New York and everything like that and just remarkable.

John Bowen:

And he’s just getting started.

Dan Sullivan:

Yeah, he’s 72, 73, says it just gets better as you go along. One thing, an interesting statistic, and I don’t think, John, I’ve actually told you this. So the US is the best research economy in the world. The number of research looking at how Americans perform is really interesting, but they take the decades with entrepreneurs. So they have from 10 to 20 entrepreneurs, growth of entrepreneurs, 10 years old, and then they go up through the decades.

The biggest percentage of change in any decade is from 70 to 80. There’s been more new entrepreneurs growing between 70 and 80 than any other decade as a percentage. The reason is because it’s mostly idea work that we’re doing right now. We’re not doing manual labor anymore. We’re doing idea work. And these are individuals who say, “I love what I’m doing. I’m more useful.”

They’ve worked for someone else for 70 years and then they become an entrepreneur, and of course AI is helping them do this. So we’re in a vastly new world now. 82 years, this is the biggest change that I’ve seen just in the last three years, is just a new world. And the greater game is now possible. The greater game that John, what he’s structuring, this game was not possible 25 years ago and it’s possible now.

Louis Diamond:

It’s a great charge to everyone listening and a good reminder to pick up a copy of his book. I know I certainly will. I wouldn’t normally ask you where to buy it, but I assume Amazon and just Google it or ChatGPT, I’m sure you can find it.

Dan Sullivan:

They’ll be in all the bookstores.

Louis Diamond:

There we go. Thank you both.

John Bowen:

Thank you.

Mindy Diamond:

As a financial advisor, you hold yourself to the highest standards of integrity, honesty, and credibility. You are successful because you take your professional responsibility seriously and are dedicated to your clients, but are you living your best business life? Are your goals aligned with your firms or could a better option exist? Should I Stay or Should I Go? is a book written with you in mind.

It’s a self-guided journey that walks you through the key steps that we take with our advisor clients. This strategic thought process and roadmap to professional self-discovery is designed to help you ask the right questions and think critically and objectively, whether you’re considering change or not. Learn how to get your copy at diamond-consultants.com/thebook.

View Details

With Nick Hubert and Taylor Gentry—Founding Partners, Panoramic Capital PartnersJason Diamond speaks with Nick Hubert and Taylor Gentry of Panoramic Capital Partners about helping business owners align personal significance, wealth, and business value through a long-term advisory framework.In SummaryMany advisors who work with business owners focus on managing wealth after it is created.

Nick Hubert and Taylor Gentry argue that the greater opportunity is helping clients create, preserve, and align value long before a liquidity event occurs.

In their conversation with Jason Diamond, the founders of Panoramic Capital Partners discuss how concepts borrowed from private equity – including accountability, reporting, capital allocation, and long-term planning – can help advisors become more valuable partners to entrepreneurs. The result is a different framework for advising business owners: one that places personal significance, personal wealth, and business value on equal footing and measures success over decades rather than by transactions.

The StorylineMost business owners spend years aligning their companies around a mission, strategy, and long-term objective. Far fewer spend the same amount of time aligning their business, wealth, and personal lives around a common destination.

Nick Hubert and Taylor Gentry believe that true alignment begins when business owners stop viewing those decisions separately.

As founding partners of Panoramic Capital Partners, they have built a firm designed to engage earlier in the entrepreneurial journey. Their framework centers on helping business owners define a “north star” that balances three interconnected dimensions: personal significance, personal wealth, and business value.

The conversation explores how that framework evolved from Taylor’s experience in private equity and Nick’s background in consulting and wealth management. Rather than viewing private equity solely as a source of capital or a transaction event, they examine what advisors can learn from the systems, reporting structures, and accountability mechanisms that private equity firms use to create value over time.

Jason and his guests discuss why many business owners struggle to connect financial, operational, and personal objectives; how advisors can serve as a true personal CFO; and why alignment often matters more than maximizing the next transaction.

The discussion also turns inward, examining how the same principles influence Panoramic’s own growth decisions, their views on acquisitions and private equity investment within RIAs, and what the industry must do to attract the next generation of advisory talent.

> Download a transcript of this episode…

Listen and Learn Highlights for AdvisorsWhy do many business-owner relationships begin too late? (13:10)Nick explains why focusing primarily on liquidity events can create misaligned incentives and why advisors may add greater value by engaging earlier in the wealth-creation process.

What does Panoramic mean by a “north star” framework? (16:40)Taylor outlines the firm’s approach to aligning personal significance, personal wealth, and business value into a unified planning and decision-making framework.

How can advisors apply private equity thinking without becoming private equity investors? (18:11)Taylor describes how institutional reporting, accountability, and value-creation systems can help business owners improve outcomes regardless of whether a transaction ever occurs.

Why did one client walk away from a successful deal? (19:45)Nick shares the story of a business owner who discovered that selling the company would solve the wrong problem and why redefining success led to a better outcome.

Is private equity misunderstood by many business owners? (26:26)The conversation explores how private equity often functions as a “black box” and why advisors can help clients evaluate opportunities more objectively.

How does Panoramic structure its pricing to reduce conflicts of interest? (30:52)Nick discusses the firm’s effort to align compensation with client outcomes rather than asset gathering alone.

Should RIAs pursue acquisitions and private equity capital? (32:20)Taylor and Nick explain how they evaluate growth opportunities through the same long-term framework they use with clients.

What role will AI play in the future of advisory firms? (40:14)The discussion focuses on balancing efficiency gains and enhanced client experiences with the responsibility to protect client trust and security.

Topics Covered* Business-owner advisory models * Personal significance, wealth, and value * Entrepreneurial wealth creation * Private equity frameworks * Business value growth strategies * Capital allocation decisions * RIA business building * Advisor compensation alignment * Artificial intelligence in wealth management * Next generation advisor talent

Key Takeaways* Many advisors focus on the liquidity event, while business owners often need guidance throughout the entire value-creation journey. * The most effective business planning frameworks connect personal goals, financial objectives, and enterprise value rather than treating them separately. * Private equity’s greatest contribution may not be capital itself, but the systems and accountability structures used to create long-term value. * Business owners frequently pursue an exit when the underlying issue is a misaligned relationship with their business, rather than a desire to stop owning it. * Advisor compensation models influence behavior, making alignment between pricing and client outcomes increasingly important. * Growth through acquisitions can be valuable, but only when it supports a firm’s broader vision and long-term objectives. * AI has the potential to improve advisor efficiency and client outcomes, but trust and security remain the non-negotiable constraints.

https://youtu.be/_Fhic8CxtCs

Quotable Moments“Growing businesses create value. The transaction is not the value creation event. The business itself is.”

“The reality is that many entrepreneurs don’t want an exit. They want a different relationship with their business.”

“Private equity is often treated like a black box. Most people don’t actually know what it is or how it works.”

“The best thing I can do for my clients is still be in the seat 30 years from now.”

FAQs How can advisors create more value for business-owner clients?

Nick Hubert and Taylor Gentry argue that advisors can create greater value by engaging earlier in the entrepreneurial journey. Rather than focusing primarily on investments or eventual liquidity events, they discuss helping clients align business strategy, capital allocation, personal goals, and long-term wealth creation.

How does Panoramic Capital Partners work with business owners differently from a traditional wealth management firm?

Rather than focusing primarily on investments or eventual liquidity events, Panoramic seeks to partner with entrepreneurs throughout the business ownership journey. Their approach incorporates business strategy, value creation, capital allocation, and long-term planning alongside traditional wealth management services.

What is the “North Star” framework discussed in the episode?

The North Star framework serves as the foundation for Panoramic’s advisory process. It helps business owners define long-term objectives across their personal lives, financial goals, and businesses, creating a shared reference point for major decisions over time.

How can advisors apply private equity principles without working in private equity?

The discussion highlights how advisors can borrow many of the operational disciplines commonly used by private equity firms – including reporting systems, accountability structures, performance measurement, and strategic planning – to help clients create value regardless of whether a transaction ever takes place.

Why do some business owners choose not to sell their companies?

According to Nick and Taylor, many entrepreneurs discover that they do not actually want an exit. Instead, they want a different relationship with their business. In some cases, improving management systems, leadership structures, and operational accountability can achieve that goal without a sale.

What are the advisors’ views on AI in wealth management?

They see AI as a potentially powerful tool for improving efficiency and enhancing client deliverables, while emphasizing that client trust, data security, and responsible implementation remain more important than being first to adopt new technologies.

Nick Hubert and Taylor Gentry argue that advisors can create greater value by engaging earlier in the entrepreneurial journey. Rather than focusing primarily on investments or eventual liquidity events, they discuss helping clients align business strategy, capital allocation, personal goals, and long-term wealth creation.

Rather than focusing primarily on investments or eventual liquidity events, Panoramic seeks to partner with entrepreneurs throughout the business ownership journey. Their approach incorporates business strategy, value creation, capital allocation, and long-term planning alongside traditional wealth management services.

The North Star framework serves as the foundation for Panoramic’s advisory process. It helps business owners define long-term objectives across their personal lives, financial goals, and businesses, creating a shared reference point for major decisions over time.

The discussion highlights how advisors can borrow many of the operational disciplines commonly used by private equity firms – including reporting systems, accountability structures, performance measurement, and strategic planning – to help clients create value regardless of whether a transaction ever takes place.

According to Nick and Taylor, many entrepreneurs discover that they do not actually want an exit. Instead, they want a different relationship with their business. In some cases, improving management systems, leadership structures, and operational accountability can achieve that goal without a sale.

They see AI as a potentially powerful tool for improving efficiency and enhancing client deliverables, while emphasizing that client trust, data security, and responsible implementation remain more important than being first to adopt new technologies.

Related ResourcesFinding the Shortest Path to Excellence Can Be a Game Changer for AdvisorsDoing everything you can to deliver better service, drive growth, and achieve your goals faster can result in extraordinary benefits.

Why So Many Successful Advisors Feel StuckThey’ve built thriving businesses. Strong production. Loyal clients. Growing teams. So why do so many successful advisors quietly wonder, “Why doesn’t this feel as good as I expected?” This episode tackles the psychology of success and what comes after it.

Top Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a Move
Even if a move is years away—or just a possibility—it’s never too soon to start preparing. These insights will help you position your business and team for success, whenever the time is right.

Guest BiosNick Hubert is a Founding Partner at Panoramic Capital Partners, where he works with business owners, founders, and families on the integration of personal wealth and business decisions. His focus is on the moments where the two sides converge, growth, capital, liquidity, and long-term planning, and helping clients see the full picture in one coherent strategy. Nick began his career in investment banking in New York and management consulting in Seattle before moving into wealth management in 2016. He has also helped lead several commercial real estate development projects, giving him a hands-on understanding of how to build and maximize value in private investments. A native of Portland, Oregon, Nick lives there with his wife, Kaitlin. Outside of work, he’s usually backcountry skiing in the Cascades, cycling, or trail running across the Pacific Northwest.

Taylor Gentry is a Founding Partner at Panoramic Capital Partners, where he works with business owners, executives, and families whose wealth is tied to illiquid assets, operating companies, real estate, and private investments. His role is to translate business performance into clear financial decisions and pressure-test those decisions before they become expensive or irreversible. Before Panoramic, Taylor spent his career in investment banking and private equity, and served as CFO at several operating companies. That blend of advisory and operating experience shapes how he approaches the work: focused on fundamentals, tradeoffs, and execution. At Panoramic, Taylor acts as a Personal CFO for clients, connecting business performance, personal balance sheet, and long-term planning into one coherent strategy. An Oregon native and University of Oregon graduate, Taylor lives in Missoula, Montana with his wife, son, and daughter.s

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

View the transcript of this episode…
True Alignment: Advising Business Owners on Wealth, Significance, and Value

A conversation with Jason Diamond, Nick Hubert and Taylor Gentry – Founding Partners at Panoramic Capital Partners.

Jason Diamond:

Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is True Alignment: Advising Business Owners on Wealth, Significance, and Value. It’s a conversation with Nick Hubert and Taylor Gentry, Founding Partners, Panoramic Capital Partners. I’m Jason Diamond and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors.

Mindy Diamond:

At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned. And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education-driven and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at 908-879-1002.

Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual advisor transition report. It’s the award-winning, data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent.

Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport.

Jason Diamond:

Advisory firms that work with business owner clients typically operate through a fairly traditional wealth management lens. The business may be the source of the wealth, but the advice itself often centers around investments, planning, and asset allocation, yet Panoramic Capital Partners approaches that equation differently.

Nick Hubert and Taylor Gentry are the founding partners of the roughly $450 million RIA, serving about 150 families with a seven-person team. And while they come from very different professional backgrounds, Nick with more of a relationship and storytelling orientation, Taylor from the analytical and private equity side, they’ve built the firm around a shared philosophy tied to what they call personal significance, personal wealth, and personal value. A big part of that philosophy, or the north star as they put it, is applying some of the same accountability and long-term thinking frameworks commonly seen in private equity to the advisory relationship itself, not in a transactional sense, but in helping clients think more intentionally about decision-making, alignment, and outcomes over long periods of time.

As a result, our conversation delves deeply into the private equity world, reframing how clients and advisors should consider this important tool as both a growth mechanism and a strategic part of their client’s plans. We talk about how that perspective also shapes not only how they think about serving business owners specifically, but also the role private equity should play in wealth management. Then we take a view of their long runway and how they and other younger advisors might see things differently about building firms today and why clarity of vision may matter more than sheer scale in the years ahead, and much, much more. It’s a narrative that is refreshing and informative, so let’s get to it.

Taylor, Nick, thank you so much for joining. Walk us through your background. What brought you to the world of wealth management? Nick, let’s start with you.

Nick Hubert:

Sure. I think I got my first taste of the industry actually in a sophomore year of college internship, or I interned at Morgan Stanley here in Oregon. I studied finance and accounting at University of Oregon, and so I had this affinity for finance and markets and had that privilege of having that internship. So I had it early on in my career. Ultimately ended up setting my sights on doing investment banking and going that route and did that for a short period of time. Ended up not going very long due to a medical reason, so you don’t have to be that sorry for me. And ultimately started my career in business consulting before pretty quickly realizing that I want to get back to finance, back to investing these things that just felt like core competencies and that thing that you keep coming back to when you’re alone in the middle of the night thinking about stuff, it was always that. Just had this desire to work with smaller units than large corporations, which is great for wealth where you get to work with families and small businesses. And so it was just a natural alignment that took me back full-time to the space in 2016.

Jason Diamond:

I like the framing it through the size of the unit you’re working with and having more of an impact on the family.

Taylor, what about you?

Taylor Gentry:

I’m a little more circuitous, if you will. Spent a couple of years in investment banking, so you can be sorry for me. Nick and I met in undergrad at the University of Oregon, had the opportunity to work in this investment group together where we were investing a portion of the university’s endowment. And like Nick, interned in wealth management and kind of walked away from it going, “Boy, that’s boring. I don’t really like that.” And so moved to New York, cut my teeth in banking for a couple years and we were working… So an investment bank for context, helping companies raise debt, raise equity, and with mergers and acquisitions, we’re working with huge companies. So the Mattels of the world, the largest toy company in the world.

Like Nick, realized, “Hey, I’m going to work with smaller companies that we can get our arms around a little bit better and be more helpful with and have a bigger impact on.” So spent about 10 years with a private equity firm in the western half of the US and we invested in companies in what’s referred to as the lower middle market. So companies doing 50 to 300 million of revenue. And we would invest in those companies, grow those businesses and then look to sell them. Awesome experience, learned a ton, got a bunch of experience around how to invest in companies, how to grow businesses.

Then had the opportunity to step into the CFO seat of a couple of different operating companies during that time. It was just a great learning ground, but also to see a whole bunch of different situations. Nick and I have always invested in things together. We’ve worked on things together and we’ve always wanted to work together full time. And a few years ago, the stars really just aligned to say, “Hey, what would it look like to create a differentiated offering in the wealth space where we can blend my background on companies, transactions, how to draw on scale and all those pieces and really marry that with the wealth management piece?” And Nick will get into that further, but it’s just a really unique way to partner with families and companies that are smaller which can have a really high impact experience with those families and really move them through their life journey, if you will.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, there’s a lot to unpack there and we’ll get to some of the elements of how you run the business today. First of all, you can’t fool me by using a toy company as your example to make investment banking more interesting. I’m just kidding. Actually, my real takeaway there is you have a skillset that is incredibly relevant in the current wealth management ecosystem, especially in the model you’re currently in. So let’s talk about that a little. Tell us about your current chapter, which is Panoramic Capital Partners. Who do you serve? What types of clients? Give me some perspective on size as well.

Nick Hubert:

I’m going to take this first. Taylor can do the PE background side and give you a bunch of numbers. I’ll give you the story and see if we can piece it together that way.

Jason Diamond:

I get the impression you guys use that line a lot.

Nick Hubert:

Oh, no, that’s the first time. How’d it land? Jason, I spent eight years at our prior firm with our third founding partner, Andrew, and he was at that firm for 30 years. And so we’ve got this core DNA that we’ve always carried of serving high net worth families in a very holistic and deep planning-based capacity, which I think a lot of modern firms say that. And so that’s not necessarily that different, but it is a DNA that carries through.

When we got struck with this vision of launching Panoramic and what inspired us to build the firm, it was as, Taylor outlined, around this idea of how do we partner with entrepreneurs and business owners more holistically across their entire entrepreneurial journey, not just around the exit as is so often where the gravity of the conversation sits. And so our firm vision and inspiration was all around that. And since launching in May of 2024, it has been about how do we bring that vision to life with a different business model. And to your point, there’s a bunch to unpack there, but that is ultimately the founding vision of what we are trying to build here overall and what inspires us every day to say, how do we, as Taylor mentioned, bring the combination of skillsets to bear in a way that allows us to be a better partner along the entirety of the journey as opposed to just towards the end when assets traditionally show up, so to speak?

So that’s a story from a vision perspective. Taylor, I don’t know what you want to add to that.

Taylor Gentry:

As Nick outlined, it’s the ability to work with folks throughout the lifecycle. So in private equity, you invest in a company, you work with that management team for three to seven years and then you sell the business and move on to the next project or deal. And really, it’s the deal mechanic that is the value creation. Whereas, with what we are building here, we have the opportunity to really step along the journey with folks when they are in the early phases building what we talk about as the middle phase of allocating, and we’ll talk about this further, and then really the third phase of stewarding capital along the way. And it’s a life cycle or entrepreneurial journey that we’re able to be hand in hand with folks over decades opposed to measured in three to five year spans.

Jason Diamond:

So it sounds, and you’ve both kind of touched on this now, your different backgrounds, you view as very much a positive because it gives you, Taylor, the more in the weeds analytical perspective. Nick, you’re probably more the storyteller. Do you find that to be a benefit when you’re running your firm every day? And are there instances when it’s a negative? Is there ever a time when you say, Taylor, just maybe more for you, not coming from this world, you don’t speak the same language?

Nick Hubert:

Do you want me to drop off the call so Taylor can be honest and he can give you the scoop and then he can jump off and I’ll give you the scoop?

Taylor Gentry:

Jason, we talk about that a lot, honestly. I think it is atypical for someone with my background to step into the wealth space maybe more so. And we leverage that because we have the ability to work with folks on how do you drive value in the company, how do you set the business up for a potential sale exit or transition internally? But this business, historically, we’ve talked about it as almost like two tracks. You have Taylor on the quote unquote business consulting or the business work track and you have Nick on a wealth management track. It’s really not the case. And really, the power is the ability for these two pieces to come together and there isn’t a conversation we have with clients where those two perspectives and backgrounds or contexts aren’t married into one to create really truly holistic advice.

And so Nick will probably tell you otherwise, but I haven’t seen an area yet where our two backgrounds has been a negative. It’s actually been immensely positive. And then on top of it, in terms of kind of building out the firm, Nick is more of a traction visionary and I’m more of the traction implementer. What’s amazing about it from our perspective is the partnership we have allows us to, A, recognize that, B, name it, and then C, leverage it in terms of being able to dole out duties and maximize our success together.

Jason Diamond:

Nick, anything you’d add?

Nick Hubert:

I think that’s all right. I mean, Jason, your question was from an operational perspective. I think a lot of Taylor’s view is from a client perspective, which is spot on that the overlap of that is really helpful for clients and I think what allows it to be a different experience for them. Internally, operationally, I think that where you could see friction there amongst partners with differences, and I think you do see that, and at the same time, Google was the one who did team research 15 years ago where they put out what you really want, is similarity and vision and differences in skillset when building a team. And so I think we’ve been intentional about that and it’s been really helpful for… Taylor and I functionally met in a quasi-professional setting back in 2011 and developed a friendship quickly, so we’ve got that deep level of friendship that underpins all of it. And same with Andrew and our time working together.

So part of it is there’s just such a strength of relationship amongst us that we give space for each other’s differences and look for those as assets as opposed to negatives, but in some sense, beauty in the eye of the beholder as is the case with anything.

Jason Diamond:

Yep. I appreciate you adding that context. I’ll be honest that when I first encountered your firm, my reaction was your core value prop of serving business owners is not all that differentiated. And then I learned more about the way in which you serve business owners. Can you talk about that? Because a lot of advisors in general, but then I think more specifically, a lot of RIAs would say, “We service primarily business owners.” Tell me how do you do it in a way that’s different and meaningful?

Nick Hubert:

I’ll take a first stab at that and then Taylor can maybe add on with specific stories. The wealth space is an awesome business and it’s a place where it’s very difficult to differentiate. And so we think a lot about that through the lens of how do we grow this business well for the long period of time to create opportunities for clients and employees. And so we spent a lot of time thinking about that, not only for the sake of differentiation, but also how do we actually just continue to add value to clients? Because if we add value in a different way, growth will take care of itself.

I’d say one way of cutting that is we revisit the mission is through this idea of, okay, if I want to be a partner along the journey, it’s about more than a single transaction, more than a single exit, whatever that might be, or a series of transactions as wealth is often created over a series of transactions. It’s this idea of how do we focus on wealth creation and driving business value as the engine of wealth creation for entrepreneurs and what we call personal significance, which is the life of the entrepreneur. And so there’s a next click down framing of our framework that we work through that lens.

I think the most important piece for us has been how do we build a business model that actually brings that to life and that’s the trick because we can say that, and if we basically still just operate out of an AUM-based or an asset advisory fee-based business, the reality is my incentive is still towards getting assets out of the entrepreneurial environment, so to speak, into a place that I can manage them, which may or may not be the best thing for the entrepreneur based on where they are at. And so our current work continues to be around how do we build that business model. So layering in different ways of engaging, whether it’s a retainer fee or some other way of engaging so we can start earlier when assets aren’t there and actually encourage the entrepreneur, “No, keep reinvesting in your business. It’s your highest rate of return right now and it’s where the investment needs to go.” I don’t want to have a conflict in giving that advice.

And so I think step two here has been building that business model from an actual engagement perspective to enable us to enact the vision. And then I think the third piece is how do we then build tools that are different than just evaluating pre-exit planning, and as is so often, the toolkit, but actually saying, okay, what are the value drivers of a business? And this is probably where Taylor has a lot more to add because it’s 101 of the PE model, but how do we take the mission and vision of an entrepreneur, what we call north stars, translate those into value drivers, ensure those tie to strategic initiatives in the business, ensure it ties to reporting, and ultimately, how capital is allocated between the business and other investments?

So then that’s our toolkit that we continue to build out to deploy the mission through our business model with tools that back it up. So that’s how we frame it right now. Taylor, we can share stories about how that’s come to fruition to create different outcomes.

Jason Diamond:

Taylor, I’d love to hear that. Let me just add maybe my understanding, because this is what helped me, I think, to really understand how you defer, and Nick and Taylor, correct me if I’m wrong, it sounds like the typical advisor thinks about an entrepreneur, a business owner relationship as the next liquidity event in most cases. And you take the viewpoint that it’s a journey, in some instances, 30 years in the making. It’s not even about liquidity event might come that’s beside the point. Is that a fair summary?

Taylor Gentry:

Yeah. We talk about it as a growing business is a healthy business, a business that is creating incremental value and adding to the multiple in terms of how the business is valued in the marketplace is a healthy business. And so whether you are going to sell that business or retain that business into perpetuity, let’s make a really valuable business and grow a very healthy business. And that’s what we do with clients.

Nick laid out the north star framework. And so how do we actually go about engaging with folks on a practical level? It does start with the north star framework. It’s got five steps to it as Nick outlined in terms of defining the north star, where we’re going, what we’re trying to do and that’s across those three pillars, personal significance, personal wealth and business value. And that personal significance has to be held at that same level. Otherwise, we find folks that are mid 50s, their business is crazy valuable, they’ve got a lot of dollars, but their family life isn’t where they want it to be because they didn’t take care of that along the way.

So we lay out a place map that says, “Hey, these are the north stars that we are aligning on and coming back to every month when we work with these owners.” We then push that into, okay, what are we trying to do on the business side of the equation? Let’s lay out what is going to drive the value of the business from a multiple and enterprise value perspective. We push that into a set of strategic initiatives that is tactical, who owns what, when’s it getting done, and are we red, yellow or green on it? We then build out the performance reporting package with folks. And so that is a monthly reporting package that says what happened last month and what operational data are we looking at to be able to improve the business month over month and get a good feedback loop going into the company. And then the last piece is around capital allocation that Nick mentioned where if the business generates a million dollars, where’s that capital going?

I think there’s a lot in there and it’s really deep, but if you zoom all the way back out, it’s take a private equity style playbook where private equity firms come and invest in a company. And what do they do after close? They put in place good financial reporting, good operational reporting, and then hold the team accountable to that reporting and those results on a monthly, quarterly, and annual basis. And so this is not rocket science or something that’s never been seen before. It’s just most business owners that have never experienced this private equity world don’t have access to it and don’t know how to go about doing it. It’s a relatively long process to get that installed with companies and with teams to really dig in and understand it, but it’s building out those packages to be able to say, “Okay, what happened last month? What changes do we need to make and what are we doing from a initiative perspective to drive the business forward?”

So to Nick’s point, it was previously, this was all about liquidity planning or from a wealth management perspective, it’s about the exit. This is about how do we make a more valuable business along the way, and that’s going to be good for the entrepreneur as they move through the journey.

Nick Hubert:

When we were around the dinner table, the proverbial dinner table creating the vision of this firm, it was around this idea of the silver tsunami and everything that everybody reads in the headlines of this massive wave of transition, this generational transition of business ownership that we could help facilitate. So we launched with that thesis in some sense.

In addition to this broader journey perspective, we have gotten to this place by following the market and listening to what entrepreneurs actually want through the big unlock was honestly in a deal process with one of our clients where we realized, “This is a great deal. This person’s going to put a ton of money in their pockets, secure their future,” and it’s completely the wrong outcome for the entrepreneur because it’s thinking all about the deal, not thinking about what this person didn’t want was an exit. They wanted a different relationship with their business, and that required, what do you actually want out of life, that personal significance piece? And it required, “Hey, if we can actually create a layer of team members and reporting that allows you to manage this like a board chair would do as opposed to a highly engaged CEO. That’s actually what you want. You don’t want out of this business. You want to still have this be a huge rock in your life.”

And so we’ve ran through that door, said no to the deal with them and have been building the infrastructure around this, and that was the unlock and aha moment for us. There’s something bigger here and that’s what then inspired, in some sense, the broader build out of the toolkit, but I think puts more meat on the bone of actually saying no to a deal, which is not the classic wealth manager outcome to get to a way better outcome for the client and is ultimately still an awesome client for us as a firm and somebody that we can go build with for the next 20 years.

I think just telling it through the lens of a story that’s different than what’s normal, so to speak, is a way to frame that up.

Jason Diamond:

It’s such a hyper focus on a fairly long-term and honestly nebulous potential outcome. You don’t have certainty. That, I think, is why most advisors would prefer the near-term liquidity. I mean, it’s not a secret, right? You can bill on assets, firms are incentivizing it and it’s a pretty direct recipe to net new asset growth, but it’s certainly a refreshing point of view. It resonates with me. I’m wondering if it’s resonated with clients and prospects. I guess what I’m asking is, do they feel that this is something different than the typical wealth management experience for this type of client?

Nick Hubert:

Yeah, Taylor, tell that story of the guy who said, “I’ve had this, but I felt alone.” I think that story of partnership, you tell pretty well.

Taylor Gentry:

Yeah. Jason, it was actually that same client, he had a investment banker, a wealth manager, attorney, and a CPA. CPA said, “The deal’s terrible, you shouldn’t do the deal.” Investment bankers obviously incentivized to do the deal. And so he’s saying, “You should do the deal.” That’s how he gets paid. He had a wealth manager who was silent and he had an attorney who just pushing paperwork.

Jason Diamond:

It’s like the start of a bad joke.

Taylor Gentry:

Yeah. No, seriously, it’s pretty remarkable. It’s like this guy did what he was supposed to do. He put the team of resources around himself. He got professionals in the seat. It’s that no one could connect the dots of all four of those people because they have the seat of those four people.

And so it’s really resonated because there’s an ability to see a bigger picture and connect these dots and say, “Okay, this investment banker is saying X because of A, B and C.” And the CPA is saying it’s a bad deal and that it’s not a market deal. It’s 100% a market deal. This deal is right down the fairway in terms of what the market should value your company at and they just don’t understand how the transaction mechanics should work. And so it’s worked really well from that perspective of being able to be the quarterback or centralized point or personal CFO for folks in understanding where interests lie and also being able to think about what they are pursuing in a bit of a different lens.

I think the second piece on that is where does it resonate for folks? I think that there is a gap in the marketplace that we are still working to close, and that gap is that business owners do not know what this monthly reporting package looks like. They do not know what really good reporting on their business looks like in terms of they have always run their… You’ve got a business owner. They’ve run their business for 10 or 20 years. They have a pulse on the business from their gut feel. That does not mean that the business has been optimized, is ready to go to the next level or is ready for a transaction and go through a transaction because they have not done the work on the backend to understand the moving pieces of the business at a granular level.

This recording package, we oftentimes get this confusion around, well, I’ve got a temporary CFO or a controller or X, Y, Z. That is very different than what we’re talking about. Well, that is all accounting, close the books, have clean numbers. What we’re talking about is how do I marry operational data in the business, number of units ships, number of jobs completed, time on job, operational data to the financials in the business so I can then go make adjustments operationally on how to improve the business and continue taking steps forward.

Jason Diamond:

It’s very clear. Nick, anything you’d want to add to that?

Nick Hubert:

I’d say it’s easy to still cut that from a deal lens and say, look, when an investment partner comes to evaluate a business to sit in their seat for a moment, they’re going to look at the replicability of what that leader has done without that leader still in the seat. And if so many businesses are still reliant on that person and this gets talked about as processes, reporting systems, that ultimately results in a discount to the value of the business because although it can be viewed… For the leader, it’s like, it’s that control thing that entrepreneurs deal with. It’s what made them good. It’s what got you there. And so that transition is really hard. And that’s important from a deal lens because that does a direct impact to value.

And to widen out the scope beyond the deal and to think about the entrepreneur’s life, this goes back to the dynamic that a lot of times entrepreneurs look for the exits because they’ve built something that it’s now owning them and what they’ve built is not resulting in the life that they want. And so how can we use this system to actually change that relationship, as I mentioned earlier, with the business so that they can run it more like an executive might and get out of the knife fight, so to speak, that often is how this can feel for a lot of folks, even for pretty large businesses. It can just feel like you’re a firefighter, you’re in a knife fight, whatever you want to use for that terminology. I think it’s as much about creating a different life outcome and different relationship and owning and leading a business as it is in driving deal value.

Jason Diamond:

Taylor, maybe I’ll ask this of you. Forgive the question, but private equity, I think in our space, has a little bit of a negative stigma at the moment. I don’t think that’s true across the board. I think people appreciate generally the need for capital and there are certainly benefits of private equity. But I’ll say as a whole, advisors are, let’s say, suspicious of private equity. You ever get that pushback? Does anybody ever view your experience or the way you position the story as a negative?

Taylor Gentry:

I think most people that we talk to don’t know what private equity is. They may have seen it in the headlines. They may have some sort of connotation around it. They won’t come out and say that they don’t like it. They don’t know why they don’t like it. The average American business owner, they don’t know what it is or what it means. So yes, you do have to fight that because of the headline piece around private equity, bad actor ABC, and that’s what gets the headlines.

I think what private equity is really good at is taking a business that is not optimized or not running on systems and processes that it can run on. Again, it’s not rocket science is not crazy hard. It’s just the private equity world has created ways to install systems and process that improve the value of the business by way of providing visibility to financials and operations in a way that the owner previously didn’t have.

And so for us, we view it not by any means as the end all be all or the answer. There are clients we’ve worked with that have taken private equity capital and grown successfully, executed on some acquisitions and then exited again. There are clients that have evaluated those transactions and said, “Hey, not for me.” We are actually fairly agnostic to it. What we really spend a lot of our time on is what are we solving for? What’s the end game? How do we use this private equity transaction to get to where we’re trying to go and is it what we want at the end of the day? Because the reality is, if you’re going to stay on and run that business with private equity investment in, there’s a higher expectation on what you need to do Monday morning than when you owned it yourself and it was a little bit of your personal piggy bank too.

Jason Diamond:

I love it because you bring it back to the north star concept.

Taylor Gentry:

Yes, that’s exactly right. It’s what are we solving for and what game are we playing to be able to get to where we ultimately want to go? And for, as Nick mentioned that client that turned down the deal, it was a private equity investment. We got very clear with that, “Hey, here are going to be the expectations. You will have a monthly financial reporting call. You’re going to have quarterly board meetings.” These are things that need to happen in this business to be able to upgrade the management and cadence in this company. You don’t have to do it all tomorrow, but that is how you make a more valuable company, is installing some of these systems, process and cadence. And so we’re working with him now on doing that, just in a private context instead of in the private equity backed environment.

Nick Hubert:

I think there are three things embedded in this. I’d say number one, to Taylor’s point, this is a massive black box, in some ways by design. Wall Street’s had not a great reputation for a very long time of putting things behind the paywall, so to speak. And so we think a lot about our job as empowerment and education.

Jason Diamond:

Education, yep.

Nick Hubert:

Yeah. And so part of it is just, number one, how do we just demystify this thing and name things and take away the go to or bad? Because it can be that, but it should not be that from a core basis. That’s number one.

Number two, a lot of entrepreneurs feel like they cannot get access to this ability to professionalize or level up or whatever these things are without bringing on that investment partner. And so part of our motivation is how do we actually bring this skillset in without needing to bring on an investment partner because oftentimes, that investment partner comes when you’re done, and so you don’t actually get to experience it. That’s number two.

Number three is, Jason, part of your point earlier was like there’s still a trap here of potentially being able to get motivated primarily by the exit. And so again, that gets back to our business model, making sure our price Racing is right, all that good stuff. And it’s also the reality that a lot of businesses, if you just look at a very broad scope of American businesses, a lot of them don’t have value in the marketplace in a massively material way and/or won’t exit in a traditional way. And so the wealth creation journey then becomes much more of a conversation of, how do we manage the balance between investing in the company and distributing out of the company to invest elsewhere because we should actually be creating investment assets along the way because when you get to the exit, there’s no better power position at the moment of exit than already having financial security to some degree and giving you choice in the right deal, not the highest and best deal because you need to fill the piggy bank for retirement.

Jason Diamond:

I just want to be sure to ask because you did mention a couple times your pricing structure. How have you set it up so that you can be more agnostic about this as opposed to the typical… You want to talk about it for a minute?

Nick Hubert:

As it’s structured now, it starts with a retainer earlier on where we are working… As Taylor mentioned, we are going deep in the operational build of the business. We will do that on a monthly retainer. We’re engaging consistently. As assets get built up and if assets get built up, we start to chew that retainer down as assets go up. I think what we are ideally trying to figure out, and still honestly have not figured out yet, is how do we get to parity so that we don’t create an… I want to be able to work agnostically with a client to say-

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, I love it.

Nick Hubert:

… regardless of how I’m engaging with you, that’s the goal. So I’d say we haven’t cracked the code on exactly what that is yet, but mechanically, we’ve got the levers to pull to say how we price and move that retainer down is basically allowing to keep it at par, so to speak, for the client and allowing us to say, “I’m here to engage in making the best wealth creation outcome for you along the way, whether that’s investing in the business or investing outside the business.”

Jason Diamond:

I think that’s the right recipe. I agree. The levers can be fine-tuned, but to me, that’s the model you want to create where you can credibly look your prospects and clients in the eyes and tell them, “Our job is to serve you in the best way… We’re sitting on the same side of the table as you.”

I want to turn this inward for a second. The home cooking concept. M&A, within the RIA independent space, is obviously a hot topic. Have you thought about it? Do you think it’s a critical part of a potential growth trajectory of a healthy, independent firm? I’m curious your perspective. I feel you, Taylor in particular, probably have a unique lens on this coming from the world you came from.

Taylor Gentry:

Yeah, Jason, I think if Nick and I wanted to put as much money as we possibly could in our pockets as fast as humanly possible. It’s a pretty easy recipe. It’s go get some private equity capital backer, roll up a few RIAs, get to a few billion of AUM and then sell it to the next private equity firm or roll it to the next private equity firm, do that a few times. We’d all make plenty of money and go on our way.

We’ve been really intentional on this front, and again, I talk about this is what we want to do for the next 30 plus years. And really being intentional around building a business that has that enduring nature to it, decided to take private equity capital on, you are on a shot clock to some degree. Yes, you’re trying to build a best business, all of those pieces. You get cadence. You get capital. There’s a ton of value there, but you are on a shot clock that is not a shot clock we’re trying to get on at this stage.

I’d say we opportunistically are looking at acquisitions. So we think about it, and Nick and I talk about it all the time, how much of our time should we be spending on acquisitions? And we think of it as 80/20 or even 90/10, 80% or 90% organic growth-focused, 10 to 20% acquisitions-focused. And so we’re actively evaluating those consistently and see deals on a monthly basis that we look at and evaluate, but it’s less of the focus today than it could be down the road.

Jason Diamond:

And Nick, do you think of that when you guys talk? Do you guys call that your true north? Do you think the same way you coach your clients and prospects to say, “For right now, it wouldn’t be the right move for us to take private equity capital and to do this acquisition rollup strategy because A, B and C are more important for us”?

Nick Hubert:

Yes. I think if we take our life north star for Taylor. I’m speaking for Taylor, but we’re close and so we share this of… To Taylor’s point, the life outcome of scaling that quickly with that type of capital backing is likely to create a life that I don’t actually want that’s not good for me, not good for my family, and honestly, not good for our clients at this point. And so that overrides in this case, even though the wealth, north star might say, “Hey, absolutely do that.” At some point something has to win. And so that is true.

At the business side, as the north star is motivated by this mission of the entire entrepreneur journey, the worst thing I could do is shortcut my ability to be on that journey for a long period of time. One of our friends in this space says, “The best thing I can do for my clients is still be in the seat 30 years from now because I’ve lived a good life that enables that.” And I think that’s spot on for us, is everything, it’s so easy in today’s world to be consumed by short-termism and we are intentional in ensuring that we don’t succumb to that. While still recognizing to your point, I mean, you’re in this all day, Jason, right? There’s a massive opportunity in front of us to be thoughtful about how acquisitions fit into this. And I think we want to be open to that in a way that ensures we just don’t lose the core of the goodness of what we’re trying to build.

Jason Diamond:

I think that’s the right answer. The only wrong answer in my mind is we’re not open to this or we’re closed to it. To not at least be opportunistically aware of the dynamics in the market, I think is naive. But also, I’ll be honest, Nick, when I think about the concept of the north star, I have a hard time imagining, because we use a similar concept when we counsel advisors. What is your true north or your north star and your best business life, whatever you want to call it? To me, it does include absolutely the personal piece. I think it’s hard to define it only on the economic verticals because, I mean, I think about this for a transitioning advisor. Almost never is the conversation about crunch the spreadsheet and get us the biggest check possible. It’s, yeah, sure, transition capital is important, but it’s let’s also, we want a better work life and we want freedom to market and blah, blah, blah. To me, I think it’s a completely fair way. You two are looking at it at least for now and I assume you reserve the right to revise that opinion down the line.

Nick Hubert:

I think acquiring for size and scale is as often the headline is, yeah, we’re not into that at this point because I think… And yet, hey, if the right acquisition with the right people came along in that, we’d be extremely excited and would move very quickly to execute on that. So it’s a little bit of a both hand.

Taylor Gentry:

Yeah. Jason, I think it goes without saying, but my background on having done a bunch of transactions of businesses like this, it’s a natural fit for us to have this as a lever. And so we are looking at deals. We just haven’t prioritized it as the top priority.

Jason Diamond:

I think also where you are, 2024 was the launch of the business. It’s pretty common to see, all right, let’s nail this, let’s get our feet under us, client service model and then we’ll start to think about that down the line.

A couple other things I want to ask you about running an independent firm. This is a pretty glowingly positive review, I think, of your ability to service clients, your ability to grow and to build and run the business that you want. Has there been anything negative that you haven’t enjoyed about running and operating this business, other than working with each other, of course?

Nick Hubert:

No, I was going to say, I’m like, can we get Taylor off the call again?

Taylor Gentry:

Jason, maybe I’ll take a first cut at it. I think for both Nick and I, it’s just the administrative components of running an independent business that we don’t enjoy candidly. I don’t think many people would. That said, you come full circle and it is a pretty glowingly positive review of running an independent business because we get to run it in the way that we see fit. And oh, by the way, we use the same things that we use with our clients. So the value drivers we’ve talked about, we have a value drivers worksheet. We refresh it every six months. Nick, Andrew, and I get together every six months and we’re 18 months into this thing and we’ve already got this cadence and system to it, if you will. So I personally really enjoy the running the business piece of it from a macro perspective. Yeah, I’m responsible for running our fee billing and running the math on all that and getting that done, for example.

Jason Diamond:

I think that’s actually a very thoughtful answer. And I appreciate you saying I enjoy running… I feel the same way, by the way. There’s some elements of running a business that I think are immensely fun. I think it gets painted with this brush of, “Ugh, running the business is the hassle and I want to work in the business.” Agreed, nobody likes invoicing and accounts receivable for the most part, but Nick, what are your thoughts on this?

Nick Hubert:

Yeah, I think mine is different a little bit coming from a different background where it’s easier for me to sit with the rose-colored glasses of the joy of the freedom that we have in this model. At the same time, when I’m counseling folks who are talking with folks or mentoring folks, younger people who are thinking about, “Okay, I want to go start my own thing,” I’m like, “Hey, it’s like I’m the same way. I want to look in the mirror and think I’m the boss or I’m one of the bosses and we get to go build this.”

Then the reality is, at the end of the day, if there was something that you didn’t want to do that had to get done and you didn’t do it, you got to look in the mirror and be like, “Well, you’re the boss, you didn’t do it.” It’s the both sides of the coin that I think a positive, negative cut is one way to look at that because it can feel that way sometimes. And the reality is every job has 20 to 30% of it that you just don’t enjoy doing, and that’s totally true.

Jason Diamond:

It’s why they call it work. That’s why they pay you.

Nick Hubert:

They’d be pretty quick to point out that I’m the one of the partnership group that they’re going to have to chase for a smaller administrative item because, yeah, I honestly, just similarly speaking, don’t enjoy that. I want to go talk to clients. I want to go focus on building what we’re building. In finance speaks, it is a higher beta to just the all encompassing realities of running a business that is really hard to underscore without being in the seat. And yeah, there’s definitely 20 to 30% of that I would love to wave a magic wand and say, I don’t have to do anymore.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, I appreciate that.

Nick Hubert:

You can’t have one without the other. It’s both sides.

Jason Diamond:

I think it’s getting easier and I think it’s getting more offloadable and some of it probably gets more… In some ways, more offloadable as you scale, but then you get a new set of problems, probably two, because you’re dealing with bigger… It’s a never ending. I think most business owners would agree with that. And you said it well, you take the good with the bad and overwhelmingly, most people we speak with in the independent space feel as you do, which is, are there things I would prefer to offload or that I would prefer not to do? Of course, but that’s almost just the price you pay for the freedom and for doing all the things you want to do.

Two more questions that I want to be sure to ask about where this has been a great episode. One is AI. Need to know your thoughts. Is this coming for our jobs? Do you think your firm is positioned to capture either asset flows or also just to leverage this technology and use it to serve clients better? Just give me your thoughts.

Nick Hubert:

I think, in some sense, it would be irresponsible as people this early in our entrepreneurial journey and thinking about how do we optimize what we do for clients to not be engaging with AI in some way, shape or form, at least in an evaluative posture. So we are actively, in a bunch of different ways, whether it’s buy it off the shelf or build it, continuing to find ways to think about, not only how do we drive efficiency, because there’s an obvious surface level dynamic of if I can save time and spend more time with clients, that is a go to thing objectively. And there’s this deeper dynamic of if it can amplify what…

Actually, back to your prior question, if it can amplify what I’m best at and enjoy and reduce what I don’t enjoy, that’s a massive win. And I think we’re on the surface of seeing that. That’s the opportunity we are motivated by that and pursuing that. And at the same time, I would say an operational principle that really is important to us, and you can almost call it a north star within the business is client security can never be put at risk for the sake of our own growth, our own efficiency, or anything else. There’s, I think, still a question mark as to how we think about trusting this. And so we are very cautious as we think about we will never try to move so quickly on any technology, whether it’s AI or otherwise that we risk our clients in some way, shape or form, because the reality is we are also in a context where AI is, when pulled, one of the least popular things happening in the world today for the average American. And so there’s no kudos here for being a leader.

Jason Diamond:

I totally agree. The first mover advantage here is slim to none.

Nick Hubert:

Yeah, you don’t want to be the one sticking your neck out on this in our industry. And yet there still objectively has a potential to be better for the clients. Navigating that I think is messy.

Taylor Gentry:

I think the only thing I’d add, which is pretty short, is the use of these tools has the ability to create a better deliverable for clients on a more consistent basis. And marrying that with exactly what Nick just outlined around the risk is really the magic piece here. And so I think, to the extent we can get it implemented effectively with the security, but also with, this is going to result in a lot better outcome for clients across the board, that’s a pretty attractive objective to go after and it’s pretty exciting to be in the industry with that now on the forefront in terms of ability to improve that experience over time.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah. No, that’s a good color to add. I want to end here with a potential HR violation, but you’ll forgive me. I’m not going to ask about age, but you are clearly both relatively young advisors. And this is a hot button issue in our industry, the idea that there are not a lot of talented, young next gen advisors at a time when a lot of gen one or older advisors are retiring out of the business. So what would you say… I think one of you made the comment earlier, it’s not necessarily the coolest industry to go into at 23 years old right out of school. I think more commonly people go into sales and trading, investment banking or some of the other finance verticals. What would you say to younger folks interested in wealth? And maybe I’d ask also, do you have any thoughts on how we solve this next gen talent crisis? And if you’re both secretly 90 years old, you can just do it.

Taylor Gentry:

You talking my internal age or my actual age?

Jason Diamond:

Why don’t you go first?

Nick Hubert:

Yeah, go ahead, Taylor.

Taylor Gentry:

I think there’s two threads here. The first is it’s not a sexy industry to go into and not as sexy as an investment banking, private equity shtick, if you will. I think from my perspective, it’s really important what you’re working on. The ability to be in a firm like what we are building with the diversity of work that is available is a little bit like the world’s your oyster and we’re designing it with that in mind. For Nick and I, the ability to work on many different situations throughout the day and throughout the week is actually why this business is so attractive and interesting and why we want to do it for 30 years. And so we’re building with that context. And so, in some ways, it’s almost like a plug for younger advisors, the ability to work in a firm like what we’re building where you’ve got this diversity of work that is not just trading stocks and bonds or just spreadsheeting or just financial planning. This is a much broader expression and experience than what I would call “traditional” wealth management. So I think that’s the key on that front.

Then, on the talent development side of the equation, if you will, this AI thing is going to be a big question mark. And what I mean by that is there is significant training that will be required in, call it traditional wealth management or the firm we’re building with regard to folks’ ability to actually learn when you can plug it into AI and get an answer that you don’t have to critically question or think through. And so there’s going to be a significant learning curve for folks that we’re going to have to continue to train and educate on in order to produce talent that can be long-term sustainable and beneficial for clients more writ large.

Jason Diamond:

Nick.

Nick Hubert:

Well, first and foremost, we haven’t given our third partner enough here of time. I think we have a tremendous benefit of having a multi-generational team at the partnership level where he’s in his mid to late 50s and can bring that additional experience to bear and as is necessary, and as is important because investing is an experienced business and a lot of clients want that. And so the power of that matters. I think that actually speaks to firms being willing to think of partnership at that level that partnership is not reserved for just once you’ve been there for a long time. So I think it’s getting at like, how do you share ownership earlier, do it in a way that is actually giving people a stake in the outcome and allowing that elevation to happen. I think that’s number one.

Number two, honestly, the existence of people like you and your team and that your family has built over the years, Jason, is awesome. And because of the ability for you to help people navigate and see how easy it is to actually run this business and build this business in some sense… And that’s in the broader spectrum of having seen. We work with so many different types of companies. We sometimes say our business is so much easier to run and it has come so far with technology and with people like you who are providers to us to allow it to be easier for us so to speak. That’s a big deal. I think that should be talked about more that there is a massive… What that allows is more time to, as Taylor mentioned, build what you actually want because you can outsource the compliance piece in a major way that allows you to not spend as much time on that as you used to.

So I don’t think that gets talked about enough. And I think if you just zoom out and view this in the perspective of post-2020, there was this massive movement of entrepreneurship through acquisitions and people looking at this idea of how do I get the life I want by way of not having to be on a two-year clock to go to the next job to the next job. Have something that I can have a long-term impact on where I get to build something and have employees. This is the perfect space for that because it’s such an awesome business where you get to work so intimately with people and clients and their life outcomes. They’re, again, relatively speaking, easier businesses to run relative to what’s out there. I’m just baffled by the fact that it is not seen a larger wave of younger people coming out of these more “traditional” paths and seeing this as an awesome place when they’re willing to go buy an HVAC company.

This is so much easier than that. So honestly, I think part of it’s just we all live coming from being in this space longer, we get stuck in our wealth management lane and I think it’s easy to then nitpick and get stuck in there. But when we take a more global perspective, it’s a massive opportunity that I hope more people take advantage of.

Jason Diamond:

Thank you for highlighting that. We call it the ecosystem of support for financial advisors, and it’s gotten so much more robust through the years. And a lot of times, people focus on the negatives of compliance burdens have gotten heavier and competition has gotten fiercer. And yes, that’s all true, but the flip side is the point you just made, Nick. So I appreciate you bringing that up.

Any last words of wisdom you’d want to share with our audience? This has been a fantastic episode and I can’t wait to have you back on to revisit the growth trajectory.

Nick Hubert:

Yeah, I’d say just thank you for the time. We’ll plug the podcast. We’ve enjoyed you guys for a really long time and being able to have the resource of what you guys have built is actually… In our partnership meetings, we’re bringing you guys up with some consistency. So thank you for the gift that you are to the industry and continuing to create opportunity for folks like us to come on here.

Jason Diamond:

Thank you so much.

Mindy Diamond:

As a financial advisor, you hold yourself to the highest standards of integrity, honesty, and credibility. You are successful because you take your professional responsibility seriously and are dedicated to your clients, but are you living your best business life? Are your goals aligned with your firms or could a better option exist? Should I Stay or Should I Go? is a book written with you in mind. It’s a self-guided journey that walks you through the key steps that we take with our advisor clients. This strategic thought process and roadmap to professional self-discovery, is designed to help you ask the right questions and think critically and objectively, whether you’re considering change or not. Learn how to get your copy at diamond-consultants.com/thebook.

True Alignment: Advising Business Owners on Wealth, Significance, and Value

A conversation with Jason Diamond, Nick Hubert and Taylor Gentry – Founding Partners at Panoramic Capital Partners.

Jason Diamond:

Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is True Alignment: Advising Business Owners on Wealth, Significance, and Value. It’s a conversation with Nick Hubert and Taylor Gentry, Founding Partners, Panoramic Capital Partners. I’m Jason Diamond and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors.

Mindy Diamond:

At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned. And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education-driven and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at 908-879-1002.

Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual advisor transition report. It’s the award-winning, data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent.

Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport.

Jason Diamond:

Advisory firms that work with business owner clients typically operate through a fairly traditional wealth management lens. The business may be the source of the wealth, but the advice itself often centers around investments, planning, and asset allocation, yet Panoramic Capital Partners approaches that equation differently.

Nick Hubert and Taylor Gentry are the founding partners of the roughly $450 million RIA, serving about 150 families with a seven-person team. And while they come from very different professional backgrounds, Nick with more of a relationship and storytelling orientation, Taylor from the analytical and private equity side, they’ve built the firm around a shared philosophy tied to what they call personal significance, personal wealth, and personal value. A big part of that philosophy, or the north star as they put it, is applying some of the same accountability and long-term thinking frameworks commonly seen in private equity to the advisory relationship itself, not in a transactional sense, but in helping clients think more intentionally about decision-making, alignment, and outcomes over long periods of time.

As a result, our conversation delves deeply into the private equity world, reframing how clients and advisors should consider this important tool as both a growth mechanism and a strategic part of their client’s plans. We talk about how that perspective also shapes not only how they think about serving business owners specifically, but also the role private equity should play in wealth management. Then we take a view of their long runway and how they and other younger advisors might see things differently about building firms today and why clarity of vision may matter more than sheer scale in the years ahead, and much, much more. It’s a narrative that is refreshing and informative, so let’s get to it.

Taylor, Nick, thank you so much for joining. Walk us through your background. What brought you to the world of wealth management? Nick, let’s start with you.

Nick Hubert:

Sure. I think I got my first taste of the industry actually in a sophomore year of college internship, or I interned at Morgan Stanley here in Oregon. I studied finance and accounting at University of Oregon, and so I had this affinity for finance and markets and had that privilege of having that internship. So I had it early on in my career. Ultimately ended up setting my sights on doing investment banking and going that route and did that for a short period of time. Ended up not going very long due to a medical reason, so you don’t have to be that sorry for me. And ultimately started my career in business consulting before pretty quickly realizing that I want to get back to finance, back to investing these things that just felt like core competencies and that thing that you keep coming back to when you’re alone in the middle of the night thinking about stuff, it was always that. Just had this desire to work with smaller units than large corporations, which is great for wealth where you get to work with families and small businesses. And so it was just a natural alignment that took me back full-time to the space in 2016.

Jason Diamond:

I like the framing it through the size of the unit you’re working with and having more of an impact on the family.

Taylor, what about you?

Taylor Gentry:

I’m a little more circuitous, if you will. Spent a couple of years in investment banking, so you can be sorry for me. Nick and I met in undergrad at the University of Oregon, had the opportunity to work in this investment group together where we were investing a portion of the university’s endowment. And like Nick, interned in wealth management and kind of walked away from it going, “Boy, that’s boring. I don’t really like that.” And so moved to New York, cut my teeth in banking for a couple years and we were working… So an investment bank for context, helping companies raise debt, raise equity, and with mergers and acquisitions, we’re working with huge companies. So the Mattels of the world, the largest toy company in the world.

Like Nick, realized, “Hey, I’m going to work with smaller companies that we can get our arms around a little bit better and be more helpful with and have a bigger impact on.” So spent about 10 years with a private equity firm in the western half of the US and we invested in companies in what’s referred to as the lower middle market. So companies doing 50 to 300 million of revenue. And we would invest in those companies, grow those businesses and then look to sell them. Awesome experience, learned a ton, got a bunch of experience around how to invest in companies, how to grow businesses.

Then had the opportunity to step into the CFO seat of a couple of different operating companies during that time. It was just a great learning ground, but also to see a whole bunch of different situations. Nick and I have always invested in things together. We’ve worked on things together and we’ve always wanted to work together full time. And a few years ago, the stars really just aligned to say, “Hey, what would it look like to create a differentiated offering in the wealth space where we can blend my background on companies, transactions, how to draw on scale and all those pieces and really marry that with the wealth management piece?” And Nick will get into that further, but it’s just a really unique way to partner with families and companies that are smaller which can have a really high impact experience with those families and really move them through their life journey, if you will.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, there’s a lot to unpack there and we’ll get to some of the elements of how you run the business today. First of all, you can’t fool me by using a toy company as your example to make investment banking more interesting. I’m just kidding. Actually, my real takeaway there is you have a skillset that is incredibly relevant in the current wealth management ecosystem, especially in the model you’re currently in. So let’s talk about that a little. Tell us about your current chapter, which is Panoramic Capital Partners. Who do you serve? What types of clients? Give me some perspective on size as well.

Nick Hubert:

I’m going to take this first. Taylor can do the PE background side and give you a bunch of numbers. I’ll give you the story and see if we can piece it together that way.

Jason Diamond:

I get the impression you guys use that line a lot.

Nick Hubert:

Oh, no, that’s the first time. How’d it land? Jason, I spent eight years at our prior firm with our third founding partner, Andrew, and he was at that firm for 30 years. And so we’ve got this core DNA that we’ve always carried of serving high net worth families in a very holistic and deep planning-based capacity, which I think a lot of modern firms say that. And so that’s not necessarily that different, but it is a DNA that carries through.

When we got struck with this vision of launching Panoramic and what inspired us to build the firm, it was as, Taylor outlined, around this idea of how do we partner with entrepreneurs and business owners more holistically across their entire entrepreneurial journey, not just around the exit as is so often where the gravity of the conversation sits. And so our firm vision and inspiration was all around that. And since launching in May of 2024, it has been about how do we bring that vision to life with a different business model. And to your point, there’s a bunch to unpack there, but that is ultimately the founding vision of what we are trying to build here overall and what inspires us every day to say, how do we, as Taylor mentioned, bring the combination of skillsets to bear in a way that allows us to be a better partner along the entirety of the journey as opposed to just towards the end when assets traditionally show up, so to speak?

So that’s a story from a vision perspective. Taylor, I don’t know what you want to add to that.

Taylor Gentry:

As Nick outlined, it’s the ability to work with folks throughout the lifecycle. So in private equity, you invest in a company, you work with that management team for three to seven years and then you sell the business and move on to the next project or deal. And really, it’s the deal mechanic that is the value creation. Whereas, with what we are building here, we have the opportunity to really step along the journey with folks when they are in the early phases building what we talk about as the middle phase of allocating, and we’ll talk about this further, and then really the third phase of stewarding capital along the way. And it’s a life cycle or entrepreneurial journey that we’re able to be hand in hand with folks over decades opposed to measured in three to five year spans.

Jason Diamond:

So it sounds, and you’ve both kind of touched on this now, your different backgrounds, you view as very much a positive because it gives you, Taylor, the more in the weeds analytical perspective. Nick, you’re probably more the storyteller. Do you find that to be a benefit when you’re running your firm every day? And are there instances when it’s a negative? Is there ever a time when you say, Taylor, just maybe more for you, not coming from this world, you don’t speak the same language?

Nick Hubert:

Do you want me to drop off the call so Taylor can be honest and he can give you the scoop and then he can jump off and I’ll give you the scoop?

Taylor Gentry:

Jason, we talk about that a lot, honestly. I think it is atypical for someone with my background to step into the wealth space maybe more so. And we leverage that because we have the ability to work with folks on how do you drive value in the company, how do you set the business up for a potential sale exit or transition internally? But this business, historically, we’ve talked about it as almost like two tracks. You have Taylor on the quote unquote business consulting or the business work track and you have Nick on a wealth management track. It’s really not the case. And really, the power is the ability for these two pieces to come together and there isn’t a conversation we have with clients where those two perspectives and backgrounds or contexts aren’t married into one to create really truly holistic advice.

And so Nick will probably tell you otherwise, but I haven’t seen an area yet where our two backgrounds has been a negative. It’s actually been immensely positive. And then on top of it, in terms of kind of building out the firm, Nick is more of a traction visionary and I’m more of the traction implementer. What’s amazing about it from our perspective is the partnership we have allows us to, A, recognize that, B, name it, and then C, leverage it in terms of being able to dole out duties and maximize our success together.

Jason Diamond:

Nick, anything you’d add?

Nick Hubert:

I think that’s all right. I mean, Jason, your question was from an operational perspective. I think a lot of Taylor’s view is from a client perspective, which is spot on that the overlap of that is really helpful for clients and I think what allows it to be a different experience for them. Internally, operationally, I think that where you could see friction there amongst partners with differences, and I think you do see that, and at the same time, Google was the one who did team research 15 years ago where they put out what you really want, is similarity and vision and differences in skillset when building a team. And so I think we’ve been intentional about that and it’s been really helpful for… Taylor and I functionally met in a quasi-professional setting back in 2011 and developed a friendship quickly, so we’ve got that deep level of friendship that underpins all of it. And same with Andrew and our time working together.

So part of it is there’s just such a strength of relationship amongst us that we give space for each other’s differences and look for those as assets as opposed to negatives, but in some sense, beauty in the eye of the beholder as is the case with anything.

Jason Diamond:

Yep. I appreciate you adding that context. I’ll be honest that when I first encountered your firm, my reaction was your core value prop of serving business owners is not all that differentiated. And then I learned more about the way in which you serve business owners. Can you talk about that? Because a lot of advisors in general, but then I think more specifically, a lot of RIAs would say, “We service primarily business owners.” Tell me how do you do it in a way that’s different and meaningful?

Nick Hubert:

I’ll take a first stab at that and then Taylor can maybe add on with specific stories. The wealth space is an awesome business and it’s a place where it’s very difficult to differentiate. And so we think a lot about that through the lens of how do we grow this business well for the long period of time to create opportunities for clients and employees. And so we spent a lot of time thinking about that, not only for the sake of differentiation, but also how do we actually just continue to add value to clients? Because if we add value in a different way, growth will take care of itself.

I’d say one way of cutting that is we revisit the mission is through this idea of, okay, if I want to be a partner along the journey, it’s about more than a single transaction, more than a single exit, whatever that might be, or a series of transactions as wealth is often created over a series of transactions. It’s this idea of how do we focus on wealth creation and driving business value as the engine of wealth creation for entrepreneurs and what we call personal significance, which is the life of the entrepreneur. And so there’s a next click down framing of our framework that we work through that lens.

I think the most important piece for us has been how do we build a business model that actually brings that to life and that’s the trick because we can say that, and if we basically still just operate out of an AUM-based or an asset advisory fee-based business, the reality is my incentive is still towards getting assets out of the entrepreneurial environment, so to speak, into a place that I can manage them, which may or may not be the best thing for the entrepreneur based on where they are at. And so our current work continues to be around how do we build that business model. So layering in different ways of engaging, whether it’s a retainer fee or some other way of engaging so we can start earlier when assets aren’t there and actually encourage the entrepreneur, “No, keep reinvesting in your business. It’s your highest rate of return right now and it’s where the investment needs to go.” I don’t want to have a conflict in giving that advice.

And so I think step two here has been building that business model from an actual engagement perspective to enable us to enact the vision. And then I think the third piece is how do we then build tools that are different than just evaluating pre-exit planning, and as is so often, the toolkit, but actually saying, okay, what are the value drivers of a business? And this is probably where Taylor has a lot more to add because it’s 101 of the PE model, but how do we take the mission and vision of an entrepreneur, what we call north stars, translate those into value drivers, ensure those tie to strategic initiatives in the business, ensure it ties to reporting, and ultimately, how capital is allocated between the business and other investments?

So then that’s our toolkit that we continue to build out to deploy the mission through our business model with tools that back it up. So that’s how we frame it right now. Taylor, we can share stories about how that’s come to fruition to create different outcomes.

Jason Diamond:

Taylor, I’d love to hear that. Let me just add maybe my understanding, because this is what helped me, I think, to really understand how you defer, and Nick and Taylor, correct me if I’m wrong, it sounds like the typical advisor thinks about an entrepreneur, a business owner relationship as the next liquidity event in most cases. And you take the viewpoint that it’s a journey, in some instances, 30 years in the making. It’s not even about liquidity event might come that’s beside the point. Is that a fair summary?

Taylor Gentry:

Yeah. We talk about it as a growing business is a healthy business, a business that is creating incremental value and adding to the multiple in terms of how the business is valued in the marketplace is a healthy business. And so whether you are going to sell that business or retain that business into perpetuity, let’s make a really valuable business and grow a very healthy business. And that’s what we do with clients.

Nick laid out the north star framework. And so how do we actually go about engaging with folks on a practical level? It does start with the north star framework. It’s got five steps to it as Nick outlined in terms of defining the north star, where we’re going, what we’re trying to do and that’s across those three pillars, personal significance, personal wealth and business value. And that personal significance has to be held at that same level. Otherwise, we find folks that are mid 50s, their business is crazy valuable, they’ve got a lot of dollars, but their family life isn’t where they want it to be because they didn’t take care of that along the way.

So we lay out a place map that says, “Hey, these are the north stars that we are aligning on and coming back to every month when we work with these owners.” We then push that into, okay, what are we trying to do on the business side of the equation? Let’s lay out what is going to drive the value of the business from a multiple and enterprise value perspective. We push that into a set of strategic initiatives that is tactical, who owns what, when’s it getting done, and are we red, yellow or green on it? We then build out the performance reporting package with folks. And so that is a monthly reporting package that says what happened last month and what operational data are we looking at to be able to improve the business month over month and get a good feedback loop going into the company. And then the last piece is around capital allocation that Nick mentioned where if the business generates a million dollars, where’s that capital going?

I think there’s a lot in there and it’s really deep, but if you zoom all the way back out, it’s take a private equity style playbook where private equity firms come and invest in a company. And what do they do after close? They put in place good financial reporting, good operational reporting, and then hold the team accountable to that reporting and those results on a monthly, quarterly, and annual basis. And so this is not rocket science or something that’s never been seen before. It’s just most business owners that have never experienced this private equity world don’t have access to it and don’t know how to go about doing it. It’s a relatively long process to get that installed with companies and with teams to really dig in and understand it, but it’s building out those packages to be able to say, “Okay, what happened last month? What changes do we need to make and what are we doing from a initiative perspective to drive the business forward?”

So to Nick’s point, it was previously, this was all about liquidity planning or from a wealth management perspective, it’s about the exit. This is about how do we make a more valuable business along the way, and that’s going to be good for the entrepreneur as they move through the journey.

Nick Hubert:

When we were around the dinner table, the proverbial dinner table creating the vision of this firm, it was around this idea of the silver tsunami and everything that everybody reads in the headlines of this massive wave of transition, this generational transition of business ownership that we could help facilitate. So we launched with that thesis in some sense.

In addition to this broader journey perspective, we have gotten to this place by following the market and listening to what entrepreneurs actually want through the big unlock was honestly in a deal process with one of our clients where we realized, “This is a great deal. This person’s going to put a ton of money in their pockets, secure their future,” and it’s completely the wrong outcome for the entrepreneur because it’s thinking all about the deal, not thinking about what this person didn’t want was an exit. They wanted a different relationship with their business, and that required, what do you actually want out of life, that personal significance piece? And it required, “Hey, if we can actually create a layer of team members and reporting that allows you to manage this like a board chair would do as opposed to a highly engaged CEO. That’s actually what you want. You don’t want out of this business. You want to still have this be a huge rock in your life.”

And so we’ve ran through that door, said no to the deal with them and have been building the infrastructure around this, and that was the unlock and aha moment for us. There’s something bigger here and that’s what then inspired, in some sense, the broader build out of the toolkit, but I think puts more meat on the bone of actually saying no to a deal, which is not the classic wealth manager outcome to get to a way better outcome for the client and is ultimately still an awesome client for us as a firm and somebody that we can go build with for the next 20 years.

I think just telling it through the lens of a story that’s different than what’s normal, so to speak, is a way to frame that up.

Jason Diamond:

It’s such a hyper focus on a fairly long-term and honestly nebulous potential outcome. You don’t have certainty. That, I think, is why most advisors would prefer the near-term liquidity. I mean, it’s not a secret, right? You can bill on assets, firms are incentivizing it and it’s a pretty direct recipe to net new asset growth, but it’s certainly a refreshing point of view. It resonates with me. I’m wondering if it’s resonated with clients and prospects. I guess what I’m asking is, do they feel that this is something different than the typical wealth management experience for this type of client?

Nick Hubert:

Yeah, Taylor, tell that story of the guy who said, “I’ve had this, but I felt alone.” I think that story of partnership, you tell pretty well.

Taylor Gentry:

Yeah. Jason, it was actually that same client, he had a investment banker, a wealth manager, attorney, and a CPA. CPA said, “The deal’s terrible, you shouldn’t do the deal.” Investment bankers obviously incentivized to do the deal. And so he’s saying, “You should do the deal.” That’s how he gets paid. He had a wealth manager who was silent and he had an attorney who just pushing paperwork.

Jason Diamond:

It’s like the start of a bad joke.

Taylor Gentry:

Yeah. No, seriously, it’s pretty remarkable. It’s like this guy did what he was supposed to do. He put the team of resources around himself. He got professionals in the seat. It’s that no one could connect the dots of all four of those people because they have the seat of those four people.

And so it’s really resonated because there’s an ability to see a bigger picture and connect these dots and say, “Okay, this investment banker is saying X because of A, B and C.” And the CPA is saying it’s a bad deal and that it’s not a market deal. It’s 100% a market deal. This deal is right down the fairway in terms of what the market should value your company at and they just don’t understand how the transaction mechanics should work. And so it’s worked really well from that perspective of being able to be the quarterback or centralized point or personal CFO for folks in understanding where interests lie and also being able to think about what they are pursuing in a bit of a different lens.

I think the second piece on that is where does it resonate for folks? I think that there is a gap in the marketplace that we are still working to close, and that gap is that business owners do not know what this monthly reporting package looks like. They do not know what really good reporting on their business looks like in terms of they have always run their… You’ve got a business owner. They’ve run their business for 10 or 20 years. They have a pulse on the business from their gut feel. That does not mean that the business has been optimized, is ready to go to the next level or is ready for a transaction and go through a transaction because they have not done the work on the backend to understand the moving pieces of the business at a granular level.

This recording package, we oftentimes get this confusion around, well, I’ve got a temporary CFO or a controller or X, Y, Z. That is very different than what we’re talking about. Well, that is all accounting, close the books, have clean numbers. What we’re talking about is how do I marry operational data in the business, number of units ships, number of jobs completed, time on job, operational data to the financials in the business so I can then go make adjustments operationally on how to improve the business and continue taking steps forward.

Jason Diamond:

It’s very clear. Nick, anything you’d want to add to that?

Nick Hubert:

I’d say it’s easy to still cut that from a deal lens and say, look, when an investment partner comes to evaluate a business to sit in their seat for a moment, they’re going to look at the replicability of what that leader has done without that leader still in the seat. And if so many businesses are still reliant on that person and this gets talked about as processes, reporting systems, that ultimately results in a discount to the value of the business because although it can be viewed… For the leader, it’s like, it’s that control thing that entrepreneurs deal with. It’s what made them good. It’s what got you there. And so that transition is really hard. And that’s important from a deal lens because that does a direct impact to value.

And to widen out the scope beyond the deal and to think about the entrepreneur’s life, this goes back to the dynamic that a lot of times entrepreneurs look for the exits because they’ve built something that it’s now owning them and what they’ve built is not resulting in the life that they want. And so how can we use this system to actually change that relationship, as I mentioned earlier, with the business so that they can run it more like an executive might and get out of the knife fight, so to speak, that often is how this can feel for a lot of folks, even for pretty large businesses. It can just feel like you’re a firefighter, you’re in a knife fight, whatever you want to use for that terminology. I think it’s as much about creating a different life outcome and different relationship and owning and leading a business as it is in driving deal value.

Jason Diamond:

Taylor, maybe I’ll ask this of you. Forgive the question, but private equity, I think in our space, has a little bit of a negative stigma at the moment. I don’t think that’s true across the board. I think people appreciate generally the need for capital and there are certainly benefits of private equity. But I’ll say as a whole, advisors are, let’s say, suspicious of private equity. You ever get that pushback? Does anybody ever view your experience or the way you position the story as a negative?

Taylor Gentry:

I think most people that we talk to don’t know what private equity is. They may have seen it in the headlines. They may have some sort of connotation around it. They won’t come out and say that they don’t like it. They don’t know why they don’t like it. The average American business owner, they don’t know what it is or what it means. So yes, you do have to fight that because of the headline piece around private equity, bad actor ABC, and that’s what gets the headlines.

I think what private equity is really good at is taking a business that is not optimized or not running on systems and processes that it can run on. Again, it’s not rocket science is not crazy hard. It’s just the private equity world has created ways to install systems and process that improve the value of the business by way of providing visibility to financials and operations in a way that the owner previously didn’t have.

And so for us, we view it not by any means as the end all be all or the answer. There are clients we’ve worked with that have taken private equity capital and grown successfully, executed on some acquisitions and then exited again. There are clients that have evaluated those transactions and said, “Hey, not for me.” We are actually fairly agnostic to it. What we really spend a lot of our time on is what are we solving for? What’s the end game? How do we use this private equity transaction to get to where we’re trying to go and is it what we want at the end of the day? Because the reality is, if you’re going to stay on and run that business with private equity investment in, there’s a higher expectation on what you need to do Monday morning than when you owned it yourself and it was a little bit of your personal piggy bank too.

Jason Diamond:

I love it because you bring it back to the north star concept.

Taylor Gentry:

Yes, that’s exactly right. It’s what are we solving for and what game are we playing to be able to get to where we ultimately want to go? And for, as Nick mentioned that client that turned down the deal, it was a private equity investment. We got very clear with that, “Hey, here are going to be the expectations. You will have a monthly financial reporting call. You’re going to have quarterly board meetings.” These are things that need to happen in this business to be able to upgrade the management and cadence in this company. You don’t have to do it all tomorrow, but that is how you make a more valuable company, is installing some of these systems, process and cadence. And so we’re working with him now on doing that, just in a private context instead of in the private equity backed environment.

Nick Hubert:

I think there are three things embedded in this. I’d say number one, to Taylor’s point, this is a massive black box, in some ways by design. Wall Street’s had not a great reputation for a very long time of putting things behind the paywall, so to speak. And so we think a lot about our job as empowerment and education.

Jason Diamond:

Education, yep.

Nick Hubert:

Yeah. And so part of it is just, number one, how do we just demystify this thing and name things and take away the go to or bad? Because it can be that, but it should not be that from a core basis. That’s number one.

Number two, a lot of entrepreneurs feel like they cannot get access to this ability to professionalize or level up or whatever these things are without bringing on that investment partner. And so part of our motivation is how do we actually bring this skillset in without needing to bring on an investment partner because oftentimes, that investment partner comes when you’re done, and so you don’t actually get to experience it. That’s number two.

Number three is, Jason, part of your point earlier was like there’s still a trap here of potentially being able to get motivated primarily by the exit. And so again, that gets back to our business model, making sure our price Racing is right, all that good stuff. And it’s also the reality that a lot of businesses, if you just look at a very broad scope of American businesses, a lot of them don’t have value in the marketplace in a massively material way and/or won’t exit in a traditional way. And so the wealth creation journey then becomes much more of a conversation of, how do we manage the balance between investing in the company and distributing out of the company to invest elsewhere because we should actually be creating investment assets along the way because when you get to the exit, there’s no better power position at the moment of exit than already having financial security to some degree and giving you choice in the right deal, not the highest and best deal because you need to fill the piggy bank for retirement.

Jason Diamond:

I just want to be sure to ask because you did mention a couple times your pricing structure. How have you set it up so that you can be more agnostic about this as opposed to the typical… You want to talk about it for a minute?

Nick Hubert:

As it’s structured now, it starts with a retainer earlier on where we are working… As Taylor mentioned, we are going deep in the operational build of the business. We will do that on a monthly retainer. We’re engaging consistently. As assets get built up and if assets get built up, we start to chew that retainer down as assets go up. I think what we are ideally trying to figure out, and still honestly have not figured out yet, is how do we get to parity so that we don’t create an… I want to be able to work agnostically with a client to say-

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, I love it.

Nick Hubert:

… regardless of how I’m engaging with you, that’s the goal. So I’d say we haven’t cracked the code on exactly what that is yet, but mechanically, we’ve got the levers to pull to say how we price and move that retainer down is basically allowing to keep it at par, so to speak, for the client and allowing us to say, “I’m here to engage in making the best wealth creation outcome for you along the way, whether that’s investing in the business or investing outside the business.”

Jason Diamond:

I think that’s the right recipe. I agree. The levers can be fine-tuned, but to me, that’s the model you want to create where you can credibly look your prospects and clients in the eyes and tell them, “Our job is to serve you in the best way… We’re sitting on the same side of the table as you.”

I want to turn this inward for a second. The home cooking concept. M&A, within the RIA independent space, is obviously a hot topic. Have you thought about it? Do you think it’s a critical part of a potential growth trajectory of a healthy, independent firm? I’m curious your perspective. I feel you, Taylor in particular, probably have a unique lens on this coming from the world you came from.

Taylor Gentry:

Yeah, Jason, I think if Nick and I wanted to put as much money as we possibly could in our pockets as fast as humanly possible. It’s a pretty easy recipe. It’s go get some private equity capital backer, roll up a few RIAs, get to a few billion of AUM and then sell it to the next private equity firm or roll it to the next private equity firm, do that a few times. We’d all make plenty of money and go on our way.

We’ve been really intentional on this front, and again, I talk about this is what we want to do for the next 30 plus years. And really being intentional around building a business that has that enduring nature to it, decided to take private equity capital on, you are on a shot clock to some degree. Yes, you’re trying to build a best business, all of those pieces. You get cadence. You get capital. There’s a ton of value there, but you are on a shot clock that is not a shot clock we’re trying to get on at this stage.

I’d say we opportunistically are looking at acquisitions. So we think about it, and Nick and I talk about it all the time, how much of our time should we be spending on acquisitions? And we think of it as 80/20 or even 90/10, 80% or 90% organic growth-focused, 10 to 20% acquisitions-focused. And so we’re actively evaluating those consistently and see deals on a monthly basis that we look at and evaluate, but it’s less of the focus today than it could be down the road.

Jason Diamond:

And Nick, do you think of that when you guys talk? Do you guys call that your true north? Do you think the same way you coach your clients and prospects to say, “For right now, it wouldn’t be the right move for us to take private equity capital and to do this acquisition rollup strategy because A, B and C are more important for us”?

Nick Hubert:

Yes. I think if we take our life north star for Taylor. I’m speaking for Taylor, but we’re close and so we share this of… To Taylor’s point, the life outcome of scaling that quickly with that type of capital backing is likely to create a life that I don’t actually want that’s not good for me, not good for my family, and honestly, not good for our clients at this point. And so that overrides in this case, even though the wealth, north star might say, “Hey, absolutely do that.” At some point something has to win. And so that is true.

At the business side, as the north star is motivated by this mission of the entire entrepreneur journey, the worst thing I could do is shortcut my ability to be on that journey for a long period of time. One of our friends in this space says, “The best thing I can do for my clients is still be in the seat 30 years from now because I’ve lived a good life that enables that.” And I think that’s spot on for us, is everything, it’s so easy in today’s world to be consumed by short-termism and we are intentional in ensuring that we don’t succumb to that. While still recognizing to your point, I mean, you’re in this all day, Jason, right? There’s a massive opportunity in front of us to be thoughtful about how acquisitions fit into this. And I think we want to be open to that in a way that ensures we just don’t lose the core of the goodness of what we’re trying to build.

Jason Diamond:

I think that’s the right answer. The only wrong answer in my mind is we’re not open to this or we’re closed to it. To not at least be opportunistically aware of the dynamics in the market, I think is naive. But also, I’ll be honest, Nick, when I think about the concept of the north star, I have a hard time imagining, because we use a similar concept when we counsel advisors. What is your true north or your north star and your best business life, whatever you want to call it? To me, it does include absolutely the personal piece. I think it’s hard to define it only on the economic verticals because, I mean, I think about this for a transitioning advisor. Almost never is the conversation about crunch the spreadsheet and get us the biggest check possible. It’s, yeah, sure, transition capital is important, but it’s let’s also, we want a better work life and we want freedom to market and blah, blah, blah. To me, I think it’s a completely fair way. You two are looking at it at least for now and I assume you reserve the right to revise that opinion down the line.

Nick Hubert:

I think acquiring for size and scale is as often the headline is, yeah, we’re not into that at this point because I think… And yet, hey, if the right acquisition with the right people came along in that, we’d be extremely excited and would move very quickly to execute on that. So it’s a little bit of a both hand.

Taylor Gentry:

Yeah. Jason, I think it goes without saying, but my background on having done a bunch of transactions of businesses like this, it’s a natural fit for us to have this as a lever. And so we are looking at deals. We just haven’t prioritized it as the top priority.

Jason Diamond:

I think also where you are, 2024 was the launch of the business. It’s pretty common to see, all right, let’s nail this, let’s get our feet under us, client service model and then we’ll start to think about that down the line.

A couple other things I want to ask you about running an independent firm. This is a pretty glowingly positive review, I think, of your ability to service clients, your ability to grow and to build and run the business that you want. Has there been anything negative that you haven’t enjoyed about running and operating this business, other than working with each other, of course?

Nick Hubert:

No, I was going to say, I’m like, can we get Taylor off the call again?

Taylor Gentry:

Jason, maybe I’ll take a first cut at it. I think for both Nick and I, it’s just the administrative components of running an independent business that we don’t enjoy candidly. I don’t think many people would. That said, you come full circle and it is a pretty glowingly positive review of running an independent business because we get to run it in the way that we see fit. And oh, by the way, we use the same things that we use with our clients. So the value drivers we’ve talked about, we have a value drivers worksheet. We refresh it every six months. Nick, Andrew, and I get together every six months and we’re 18 months into this thing and we’ve already got this cadence and system to it, if you will. So I personally really enjoy the running the business piece of it from a macro perspective. Yeah, I’m responsible for running our fee billing and running the math on all that and getting that done, for example.

Jason Diamond:

I think that’s actually a very thoughtful answer. And I appreciate you saying I enjoy running… I feel the same way, by the way. There’s some elements of running a business that I think are immensely fun. I think it gets painted with this brush of, “Ugh, running the business is the hassle and I want to work in the business.” Agreed, nobody likes invoicing and accounts receivable for the most part, but Nick, what are your thoughts on this?

Nick Hubert:

Yeah, I think mine is different a little bit coming from a different background where it’s easier for me to sit with the rose-colored glasses of the joy of the freedom that we have in this model. At the same time, when I’m counseling folks who are talking with folks or mentoring folks, younger people who are thinking about, “Okay, I want to go start my own thing,” I’m like, “Hey, it’s like I’m the same way. I want to look in the mirror and think I’m the boss or I’m one of the bosses and we get to go build this.”

Then the reality is, at the end of the day, if there was something that you didn’t want to do that had to get done and you didn’t do it, you got to look in the mirror and be like, “Well, you’re the boss, you didn’t do it.” It’s the both sides of the coin that I think a positive, negative cut is one way to look at that because it can feel that way sometimes. And the reality is every job has 20 to 30% of it that you just don’t enjoy doing, and that’s totally true.

Jason Diamond:

It’s why they call it work. That’s why they pay you.

Nick Hubert:

They’d be pretty quick to point out that I’m the one of the partnership group that they’re going to have to chase for a smaller administrative item because, yeah, I honestly, just similarly speaking, don’t enjoy that. I want to go talk to clients. I want to go focus on building what we’re building. In finance speaks, it is a higher beta to just the all encompassing realities of running a business that is really hard to underscore without being in the seat. And yeah, there’s definitely 20 to 30% of that I would love to wave a magic wand and say, I don’t have to do anymore.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, I appreciate that.

Nick Hubert:

You can’t have one without the other. It’s both sides.

Jason Diamond:

I think it’s getting easier and I think it’s getting more offloadable and some of it probably gets more… In some ways, more offloadable as you scale, but then you get a new set of problems, probably two, because you’re dealing with bigger… It’s a never ending. I think most business owners would agree with that. And you said it well, you take the good with the bad and overwhelmingly, most people we speak with in the independent space feel as you do, which is, are there things I would prefer to offload or that I would prefer not to do? Of course, but that’s almost just the price you pay for the freedom and for doing all the things you want to do.

Two more questions that I want to be sure to ask about where this has been a great episode. One is AI. Need to know your thoughts. Is this coming for our jobs? Do you think your firm is positioned to capture either asset flows or also just to leverage this technology and use it to serve clients better? Just give me your thoughts.

Nick Hubert:

I think, in some sense, it would be irresponsible as people this early in our entrepreneurial journey and thinking about how do we optimize what we do for clients to not be engaging with AI in some way, shape or form, at least in an evaluative posture. So we are actively, in a bunch of different ways, whether it’s buy it off the shelf or build it, continuing to find ways to think about, not only how do we drive efficiency, because there’s an obvious surface level dynamic of if I can save time and spend more time with clients, that is a go to thing objectively. And there’s this deeper dynamic of if it can amplify what…

Actually, back to your prior question, if it can amplify what I’m best at and enjoy and reduce what I don’t enjoy, that’s a massive win. And I think we’re on the surface of seeing that. That’s the opportunity we are motivated by that and pursuing that. And at the same time, I would say an operational principle that really is important to us, and you can almost call it a north star within the business is client security can never be put at risk for the sake of our own growth, our own efficiency, or anything else. There’s, I think, still a question mark as to how we think about trusting this. And so we are very cautious as we think about we will never try to move so quickly on any technology, whether it’s AI or otherwise that we risk our clients in some way, shape or form, because the reality is we are also in a context where AI is, when pulled, one of the least popular things happening in the world today for the average American. And so there’s no kudos here for being a leader.

Jason Diamond:

I totally agree. The first mover advantage here is slim to none.

Nick Hubert:

Yeah, you don’t want to be the one sticking your neck out on this in our industry. And yet there still objectively has a potential to be better for the clients. Navigating that I think is messy.

Taylor Gentry:

I think the only thing I’d add, which is pretty short, is the use of these tools has the ability to create a better deliverable for clients on a more consistent basis. And marrying that with exactly what Nick just outlined around the risk is really the magic piece here. And so I think, to the extent we can get it implemented effectively with the security, but also with, this is going to result in a lot better outcome for clients across the board, that’s a pretty attractive objective to go after and it’s pretty exciting to be in the industry with that now on the forefront in terms of ability to improve that experience over time.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah. No, that’s a good color to add. I want to end here with a potential HR violation, but you’ll forgive me. I’m not going to ask about age, but you are clearly both relatively young advisors. And this is a hot button issue in our industry, the idea that there are not a lot of talented, young next gen advisors at a time when a lot of gen one or older advisors are retiring out of the business. So what would you say… I think one of you made the comment earlier, it’s not necessarily the coolest industry to go into at 23 years old right out of school. I think more commonly people go into sales and trading, investment banking or some of the other finance verticals. What would you say to younger folks interested in wealth? And maybe I’d ask also, do you have any thoughts on how we solve this next gen talent crisis? And if you’re both secretly 90 years old, you can just do it.

Taylor Gentry:

You talking my internal age or my actual age?

Jason Diamond:

Why don’t you go first?

Nick Hubert:

Yeah, go ahead, Taylor.

Taylor Gentry:

I think there’s two threads here. The first is it’s not a sexy industry to go into and not as sexy as an investment banking, private equity shtick, if you will. I think from my perspective, it’s really important what you’re working on. The ability to be in a firm like what we are building with the diversity of work that is available is a little bit like the world’s your oyster and we’re designing it with that in mind. For Nick and I, the ability to work on many different situations throughout the day and throughout the week is actually why this business is so attractive and interesting and why we want to do it for 30 years. And so we’re building with that context. And so, in some ways, it’s almost like a plug for younger advisors, the ability to work in a firm like what we’re building where you’ve got this diversity of work that is not just trading stocks and bonds or just spreadsheeting or just financial planning. This is a much broader expression and experience than what I would call “traditional” wealth management. So I think that’s the key on that front.

Then, on the talent development side of the equation, if you will, this AI thing is going to be a big question mark. And what I mean by that is there is significant training that will be required in, call it traditional wealth management or the firm we’re building with regard to folks’ ability to actually learn when you can plug it into AI and get an answer that you don’t have to critically question or think through. And so there’s going to be a significant learning curve for folks that we’re going to have to continue to train and educate on in order to produce talent that can be long-term sustainable and beneficial for clients more writ large.

Jason Diamond:

Nick.

Nick Hubert:

Well, first and foremost, we haven’t given our third partner enough here of time. I think we have a tremendous benefit of having a multi-generational team at the partnership level where he’s in his mid to late 50s and can bring that additional experience to bear and as is necessary, and as is important because investing is an experienced business and a lot of clients want that. And so the power of that matters. I think that actually speaks to firms being willing to think of partnership at that level that partnership is not reserved for just once you’ve been there for a long time. So I think it’s getting at like, how do you share ownership earlier, do it in a way that is actually giving people a stake in the outcome and allowing that elevation to happen. I think that’s number one.

Number two, honestly, the existence of people like you and your team and that your family has built over the years, Jason, is awesome. And because of the ability for you to help people navigate and see how easy it is to actually run this business and build this business in some sense… And that’s in the broader spectrum of having seen. We work with so many different types of companies. We sometimes say our business is so much easier to run and it has come so far with technology and with people like you who are providers to us to allow it to be easier for us so to speak. That’s a big deal. I think that should be talked about more that there is a massive… What that allows is more time to, as Taylor mentioned, build what you actually want because you can outsource the compliance piece in a major way that allows you to not spend as much time on that as you used to.

So I don’t think that gets talked about enough. And I think if you just zoom out and view this in the perspective of post-2020, there was this massive movement of entrepreneurship through acquisitions and people looking at this idea of how do I get the life I want by way of not having to be on a two-year clock to go to the next job to the next job. Have something that I can have a long-term impact on where I get to build something and have employees. This is the perfect space for that because it’s such an awesome business where you get to work so intimately with people and clients and their life outcomes. They’re, again, relatively speaking, easier businesses to run relative to what’s out there. I’m just baffled by the fact that it is not seen a larger wave of younger people coming out of these more “traditional” paths and seeing this as an awesome place when they’re willing to go buy an HVAC company.

This is so much easier than that. So honestly, I think part of it’s just we all live coming from being in this space longer, we get stuck in our wealth management lane and I think it’s easy to then nitpick and get stuck in there. But when we take a more global perspective, it’s a massive opportunity that I hope more people take advantage of.

Jason Diamond:

Thank you for highlighting that. We call it the ecosystem of support for financial advisors, and it’s gotten so much more robust through the years. And a lot of times, people focus on the negatives of compliance burdens have gotten heavier and competition has gotten fiercer. And yes, that’s all true, but the flip side is the point you just made, Nick. So I appreciate you bringing that up.

Any last words of wisdom you’d want to share with our audience? This has been a fantastic episode and I can’t wait to have you back on to revisit the growth trajectory.

Nick Hubert:

Yeah, I’d say just thank you for the time. We’ll plug the podcast. We’ve enjoyed you guys for a really long time and being able to have the resource of what you guys have built is actually… In our partnership meetings, we’re bringing you guys up with some consistency. So thank you for the gift that you are to the industry and continuing to create opportunity for folks like us to come on here.

Jason Diamond:

Thank you so much.

Mindy Diamond:

As a financial advisor, you hold yourself to the highest standards of integrity, honesty, and credibility. You are successful because you take your professional responsibility seriously and are dedicated to your clients, but are you living your best business life? Are your goals aligned with your firms or could a better option exist? Should I Stay or Should I Go? is a book written with you in mind. It’s a self-guided journey that walks you through the key steps that we take with our advisor clients. This strategic thought process and roadmap to professional self-discovery, is designed to help you ask the right questions and think critically and objectively, whether you’re considering change or not. Learn how to get your copy at diamond-consultants.com/thebook.

View Details

A Special Industry Update with Jason Diamond and Mindy DiamondA replay of part one of a two-part series, Jason and Mindy Diamond unpack the real advisor transition playbook—from due diligence and culture fit to portability, enterprise value, and the evolving landscape of advisor choice.

In SummaryWhy do advisors really consider changing firms or models—and what separates thoughtful due diligence from reactive decision-making?

In a replay of the first of this special two-part Industry Update, Jason and Mindy Diamond unpack what actually drives advisor transitions, the misconceptions that derail decision-making, and the questions sophisticated teams should be asking long before they’re ready to act.

The conversation also explores how the industry landscape has evolved around independence, portability, enterprise value, and advisor optionality—drawing context from Diamond’s role in the landmark OpenArc breakaway from Merrill and much more.

The StorylineMost advisors assume transitions are primarily driven by recruiting economics.

Jason Diamond and Mindy Diamond suggest that recruiting economics may get the headlines, but advisor transitions are usually driven by a far more layered set of considerations.

What tends to happen instead is more gradual: a growing disconnect between how advisors want to serve clients and the constraints of the environment around them. Sometimes it’s bureaucracy. Sometimes it’s limitations around growth, marketing, technology, or flexibility. Sometimes it’s simply the realization that the industry landscape has evolved while their assumptions about it have not.

This conversation examines what actually happens between the moment curiosity begins and the moment a move becomes real.

Rather than treating transitions as transactional events, Jason and Mindy frame due diligence as a strategic process of self-assessment—clarifying what matters, identifying trade-offs, evaluating long-term optionality, and pressure-testing assumptions before making consequential decisions.

The discussion also offers a rare look inside the mechanics of advisor movement itself: how teams evaluate culture, how portability is assessed, why some advisors choose ownership over upfront monetization, and what sophisticated client communication really looks like during a transition.

The backdrop throughout the episode is Diamond’s role in facilitating the historic OpenArc breakaway from Merrill—a move that challenged longstanding assumptions about scale, independence, and what even the industry’s largest teams are now willing to reconsider.

Topics Covered* Advisor transition due diligence * Wirehouse limitations and advisor frustration * Independence versus traditional firm models * Enterprise value and long-term ownership * Advisor portability and client transition strategy * Boutique and regional firm recruiting trends * Culture evaluation during due diligence * Reverse due diligence and evaluating firm stability * Transition economics and recruiting deals * The OpenArc Merrill breakaway story * Advisor optionality and industry evolution * How technology and AI are changing transitions

> Download a transcript of this episode…

Listen and Learn Highlights for AdvisorsWhy do advisors actually decide to leave firms? (06:20)

Mindy explains why most transitions are driven less by economics and more—by mounting limitations around growth, flexibility, client service, and long-term alignment.

What is the biggest mistake advisors make when beginning due diligence? (18:12)

The conversation explores why many advisors evaluate firms before gaining clarity around what they truly want to improve—often creating confusion instead of insight.

How should advisors evaluate culture beyond a firm’s sales pitch? (32:41)

Jason and Mindy discuss the importance of speaking directly with advisors who have already made similar moves—and how to pressure-test what firms promise.

When should transition economics matter most? (47:03)

The episode breaks down the difference between short-term monetization and long-term enterprise value creation—and why many elite teams are increasingly prioritizing ownership and optionality.

Why are more advisors reconsidering independence? (56:48)

Using the OpenArc transition as context, the discussion explores how today’s independent landscape has evolved far beyond the traditional “build it yourself” model.

How long does a real due diligence process take? (1:06:10)

Jason and Mindy explain why thoughtful transitions often unfold over many months—and why some advisors remain in exploratory conversations for years before acting.

How should advisors think about portability and client communication? (1:16:20)

The conversation details how sophisticated teams assess portability risk—and why the client-facing rationale for a move matters more than recruiting economics.

Have advisor transitions become easier over time? (1:24:12)

Mindy explains how technology, legal infrastructure, and industry specialization have improved the process—while emphasizing that transitions still require risk tolerance, effort, and patience.

Key Takeaways* Most advisors do not move primarily because of recruiting deals. The larger driver is usually a growing disconnect between what they want to build and what their current environment allows. * Due diligence tends to fail when advisors begin by evaluating firms before clarifying what they actually want for their business, clients, and long-term future. * The industry landscape has evolved dramatically over the last decade, particularly around independent and supported-independent models, creating far more customization and optionality than many advisors realize. * Transition economics matter — but sophisticated advisors increasingly view upfront monetization as only one component of a much larger enterprise value equation. * The ability to articulate a compelling client-facing value proposition is one of the strongest tests of whether a transition opportunity is truly viable. * Conversations with advisors who have already made similar moves remain one of the most valuable forms of real-world due diligence. * Even the industry’s largest teams are reassessing assumptions around independence, ownership, control, and scalability.

Quotable Moments“The biggest mistake advisors make is beginning due diligence before they’ve gotten clear about what they actually want.”

“A recruiting deal can’t be the first thing you consider. But it would be foolish not to consider it at all.”

“The landscape looks entirely different than it did five or ten years ago. If you haven’t gotten educated, you’re doing yourself a disservice.”

“The real question is not whether you can move. It’s whether you can clearly explain to clients why the move makes their experience better.”

FAQs Why do advisors typically begin exploring a move?

In many cases, the process begins gradually. Advisors may still feel successful and reasonably satisfied, but start questioning whether their current environment fully supports how they want to grow, serve clients, or build long term. Often, curiosity precedes dissatisfaction.

Is advisor movement mostly driven by recruiting deals?

Not usually. While economics are an important consideration, the episode explains that most sophisticated advisors weigh a much broader set of factors, including flexibility, culture, client experience, growth limitations, ownership opportunities, and long-term enterprise value.

How long does a typical due diligence process take?

There is no universal timeline. Some advisors move relatively quickly once they decide change is necessary, while others spend months – or even years – getting educated and evaluating options before acting. For many teams, a thoughtful due diligence process unfolds over roughly six months.

What is the biggest mistake advisors make during due diligence?

The episode suggests the biggest mistake is evaluating firms before gaining clarity around personal and business priorities. Without understanding what they actually want to improve, advisors often become overwhelmed by options, recruiting pitches, and conflicting information.

How can advisors really assess a firm’s culture?

One of the most valuable approaches is speaking directly with advisors who have already made similar moves. Jason and Mindy discuss why real-world perspective – particularly from advisors with comparable client bases or business structures – is often far more revealing than formal presentations or recruiting materials.

How should advisors think about independence versus traditional firms?

The conversation frames the decision less as “right versus wrong” and more as a question of alignment. Some advisors prioritize ownership, control, and long-term enterprise value. Others value infrastructure, brand recognition, or operational support. The industry landscape has evolved enough that advisors now have far more flexibility to design around the trade-offs that matter most to them.

In many cases, the process begins gradually. Advisors may still feel successful and reasonably satisfied, but start questioning whether their current environment fully supports how they want to grow, serve clients, or build long term. Often, curiosity precedes dissatisfaction.

Not usually. While economics are an important consideration, the episode explains that most sophisticated advisors weigh a much broader set of factors, including flexibility, culture, client experience, growth limitations, ownership opportunities, and long-term enterprise value.

There is no universal timeline. Some advisors move relatively quickly once they decide change is necessary, while others spend months – or even years – getting educated and evaluating options before acting. For many teams, a thoughtful due diligence process unfolds over roughly six months.

The episode suggests the biggest mistake is evaluating firms before gaining clarity around personal and business priorities. Without understanding what they actually want to improve, advisors often become overwhelmed by options, recruiting pitches, and conflicting information.

One of the most valuable approaches is speaking directly with advisors who have already made similar moves. Jason and Mindy discuss why real-world perspective – particularly from advisors with comparable client bases or business structures – is often far more revealing than formal presentations or recruiting materials.

The conversation frames the decision less as “right versus wrong” and more as a question of alignment. Some advisors prioritize ownership, control, and long-term enterprise value. Others value infrastructure, brand recognition, or operational support. The industry landscape has evolved enough that advisors now have far more flexibility to design around the trade-offs that matter most to them.

Related ResourcesThe Advisor Transition Playbook: The Latest on Due Diligence, the Move, and Everything In Between – Part 2
Jason and Mindy Diamond revisit the transition playbook, this time focused on how advisor priorities are shifting. From AI and enterprise value to stability and flexibility, they unpack what’s changing in due diligence and what it means for advisors evaluating their next move.

The $129B Blockbuster Move: Shirl Penney on Why This Transition Marks a New Era for the IndustryThe $129B OpenArc breakaway marks a watershed moment for wealth management. In this Rapid Reaction episode, Louis Diamond and Shirl Penney unpack what it means for the RIA model, advisors, and the future of industry competition.

The Missing Narrative of the $129B Merrill Breakaway StoryThe largest (and quite possibly most significant) advisor breakaway in industry history made news this week. Yet instead of leading with the scale or significance of the move, headlines centered on Merrill’s lawsuit alleging corporate raiding.

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

View the transcript of this episode…
The Advisor Transition Playbook: Inside Baseball on Due Diligence, the Move, and Everything In Between

A Special Industry Update with Jason Diamond and Mindy Diamond.

Jason Diamond:

Welcome to a replay of one of the most popular episodes from our podcast series for financial advisors, The Advisor Transition Playbook: Inside Baseball on Due Diligence, the Move, and Everything In Between. It’s Part 1 of a 2-Part Industry Update with Mindy Diamond. I’m Jason Diamond and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors.

Mindy Diamond:

At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned. And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more, who change firms, are our clients. Our process is education driven and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at (908) 879-1002.

Wondering why advisors change firms, and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual Advisor Transition Report. It’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport.

Jason Diamond:

Everything about a transition can seem incredibly overwhelming. From understanding the whys of a move, then conducting due diligence, and onto aligning the right models and selecting the best firms, it might seem like a fairly linear process. And for some, it can be. But for others, the layers of minutia can be daunting. Essentially, it comes down to the adage, “You don’t know what you don’t know.” So the goal of this episode is to share some inside baseball in how to get from here to there. I asked Mindy Diamond to join me to help draw from decades of experience in helping advisors through their transitions. We’ve dived into the misconceptions, the common traps, the aware of a big check and much more. Essentially, it’s a download of what you need to know when considering a move. There’s a lot to discuss, so let’s get to it.

Mindy, so excited to have you join me for this topic.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah, I’m really happy to be here. And I’m just thinking to myself, “Yikes, decades of experience,” you’ve said, and yes it is, decades of experience.

Jason Diamond:

It most certainly is, 30 years in the business. So the seeding for this topic was, “You’ve been in this business now for 30 years, how many hundreds of thousands of conversations with advisors is that?” Some who moved, plenty who certainly did not. But ultimately, what we thought would be useful because it’s a question we get most commonly from advisors that we speak with is, “Tell me what I don’t know. What are the questions I should be asking?” So I’m going to just pepper you with some of the most common questions we get, and I would love to share the benefit of your wisdom and experience with our audience. That sound good?

Mindy Diamond:

It sounds great. I just want to say that we are recording this two days after one of the largest deals probably in the history of the industry broke that I am gratified to say we facilitated the OpenArc team who left Merrill with 129 billion in assets under management, broke a couple days ago to go independent. I’m hoping we have the opportunity to talk about some of their best practices and things we discovered along the way because I think it’s relevant. And a deal like this gets a lot of attention, people always want to know what they do and what went wrong.

Jason Diamond:

It’s a good point. I’m glad you bring it up. First of all, it’s so timely, but I think you can almost use it as a case study a little bit to answer some of these questions. So let’s dive in with that. I want to start with the big picture, “Why?” Because that’s the number one thing I think people want to know is, “Why do advisors move?” And I think there’s an assumption that 95% of transitions happen because of a big check or because of economics. I’m certain you’re going to touch on that to some extent, but give me your sense of what are the main triggers of advisor movement.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. Look, are there some advisors that move because they need to recapitalize or they want the money? Sure. But the absolute vast majority are moving because they come to a place where one of two things is true, and oftentimes both. One, the pain of staying is great enough. Meaning there’s enough frustrations or limitations that they’ve gotten to a point where despite efforts to the contrary to make it better, despite gutting it out and saying, “On par, it’s good enough,” they come to a point where there’s limitations in how they can serve their clients, how they can grow the business, and that’s just untenable for them. Hopefully, simultaneously, they are equally excited and have identified an opportunity that they believe is needle-moving enough, it’s worth the hassle, the disruption, the everything to make this move. I’ve never done a move where it doesn’t fall into one of those two or, hopefully, both of those categories.

Jason Diamond:

Let’s go a little deeper there. You mentioned limitations. Give me an example either using this recent deal or even just any recent advisors that you’ve worked with about, “What are some limitations that people experience at,” let’s say, “the wirehouses that potentially would be a catalyst for a move?”

Mindy Diamond:

Generally speaking, the biggest limitations have to do with how they’re able to grow their business and serve their clients. So anything to do with excess bureaucracy, anything to do with an incongruence, if you will, between the advisors or the team’s goals for how they want to serve clients or grow the business and what the firm is allowing them to do. Using this enormous deal as an example, you’ve got a team that was doing extraordinarily well. Oh, my god. They were the biggest team at Merrill, so talk about having a batphone to the top and the attention of senior leadership. If anyone was going to be able to break through the red tape or get things done, or eschew the limitations, it was them. And for a long time, they did.

But they were sort of increasingly unhappy, let’s say, over a decade. Despite their size, every year, they became a little bit more frustrated. And after probably six or seven years of saying, “We’re just too big to move,” they came to a point of saying, “We can’t ignore this anymore. We’ve got a tiger by its tail. We have this extraordinary business that is growing exponentially. We’ve got clients that are complaining to us. And more importantly, we’ve got team members that are feeling stifled.” And that’s where it comes from, where there’s problems you just can’t ignore even if you want to.

Jason Diamond:

It almost feels like one of those things where advisors know they’re limited, they can just feel it. But if you’re fighting against the firm, and instead of with it. I’ll give you one other one that comes to mind as we’re talking here, that seems to come up a lot in advisor conversations, which is freedom of marketing. And that might seem like a fairly minor limitation, but I can’t tell you how many times, certainly myself, I’m sure you too, get call from an advisor who is heated. They’re angry because they were trying to send some timely market commentary and the firm took two weeks to approve it. Does that fall under the same category of limitations, in your mind?

Mindy Diamond:

Oh, without a doubt. And it’s funny you say that because in this world of social media where the news is consumed or can be consumed within seconds of an event happening, there’s nothing more frustrating for an advisor than wanting to write a newsletter to update their clients with scale as opposed to having to make one phone call at a time and not being able to do so. It absolutely puts them on a back foot. And then, I think it’s the lack of freedom to differentiate themselves. Most advisors that work for big firms have a firm website that is templated, the same sort of structure of the website and the picture of the team and the same basic wordings, and that’s hard to deal with.

Jason Diamond:

Well, you bring up an interesting point, which is sometimes… For example, advisors might say or wirehouse advisors might say, “Oh, the marketing is good enough.” But a lot of times, and we’ve had advisors on this podcast who talk about exactly this, they don’t realize how limited the sandbox they were playing in is or was until after a transition. And that’s when their eyes open and they realize, “Oh, my god. I was basically playing with one arm tied behind my back.” We’ve heard advisors use that metaphor. Let me ask you this then, and this is a tough question, what do you think advisors get wrong? What is the number one misconception that advisors have prior to approaching due diligence and thinking about a move? And maybe it’s something as simple as like, “Eh, it’s the same everywhere,” but tell me what you think you hear most commonly.

Mindy Diamond:

There’s certainly those myths, the assumptions or presumptions that it’s the same everywhere or there’s nothing that’s going to change anyway, for sure. But I think the biggest and most fundamental thing they get wrong is a lack of clarity around, “What it is they’re trying to accomplish, and why?” I’d like to say that I think one of the things, the thing, we do better than most, I’m not going to say everyone else but better than most, and something we’re really good at, is helping advisors to answer the really tough questions, the smartest questions, to get a sense of what it is they’re looking to accomplish, what it is they want to improve and why, “What does success look like?” Because if you don’t do that, then a lot of folks do it backwards.

They get a phone call from a manager at Morgan Stanley or from somebody at Schwab or somebody at Dynasty, or whatever it may be, and they say, “I’ll take a lunch, why not?” And of course, the job of the manager from Morgan or the sales rep from Dynasty, or whatever it is, is to tell you all the good things about independence or about Morgan Stanley. But if I, as the advisor, am not really clear about what it is I’m looking to accomplish and why, it’s going to all sound good and I’m going to wind up more overwhelmed than when I started. And that is probably the number one thing that we see advisors getting wrong. It makes the due diligence process, if you choose to enter it, exceedingly inefficient.

Jason Diamond:

I totally agree. So I’m an advisor, I want to start due diligence in earnest. I know in my head, things are suboptimal. I’m not going to go so far as to say,” I definitively want to move.” But I’m a wirehouse advisor and I’m thinking for the first time in my career, “I’ve built a nice business, but it’s time for me to start getting educated.” So what do I do? Do I just say, “Hey, John at Morgan Stanley, what’s your recruiting deal look like these days?” Tell me, for an advisor who’s never thought about this before, what are the ABCs of this process look like?

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. It’s definitely not, the first step, calling Morgan Stanley, even if you’re pretty sure Morgan Stanley is where you want to go. I’d suggest that’s probably one of the last steps, and I’ll tell you why. The first thing is to give yourself permission to say, “Even if I’m not 100% certain that a move is in my future or that I know I’m unhappy enough to go through the hassle and disruption of making a move,” to give yourself permission to get educated. The world, the industry landscape, the ecosystem, the everything looks entirely different than it did five and 10 years ago. And if it’s been five or 10 years, or even three to five years, since you last got educated, asked the questions, looked under the hood to get a sense of, “Is there or could there be something that’s better than where I am?”, you’re doing yourself and your team a disservice.

Yeah, it takes time and it’s annoying and it’s overwhelming, and it’s all of it, but that’s honestly why people like us have a job. We don’t approach this that we think people should only come to us when they’re sure they’re going to make a move. In fact, it’s the opposite. We love the calls we get when somebody says, “I’m really happy here. I’ve been here 40 years. I’ve been here 30 years, it’s really good enough, it’s working well for me.” “But all of a sudden, I’m beginning to be curious. Or all of a sudden, I feel X, Y and Z. Tell me what I don’t know.” Those are the best calls. Those are the smartest calls. That’s the best thing an advisor can do.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, I agree with that. Are there things you think an advisor needs to ask for during the diligence… I guess what I’m getting at is, do you trust the process that if you go through this process with, let’s say, three to five strategically picked firms… So you work within a recruiter or, a shameless plug, however you approach this, and you end up with your short list of contenders. Do you trust that, by going through the due diligence process, these firms are going to give you the building blocks that you need to do proper due diligence? Or are there things you, as an advisor, need to ask for? I’ll give you one example that comes to mind, which is… There’s obviously been some firms that have had financial troubles recently. So do you think an advisor, for example, needs to ask for financial statements from a firm they’re potentially considering due diligence on? I’m curious what your thoughts are.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. Particularly, if you’re looking at sort of in this new world order, if we think about the landscape as a continuum and the newer boutique multifamily offices on the right side, absolutely. Conducting what we call reverse due diligence and getting to see the financials of the firms you’re considering, to make sure that they’re sound and solid and that the equity valuation is exactly as advertised, of course, yes, that’s true. So the answer is, in part, you trust the process. You trust that if you’ve asked the right questions, if you’ve gotten clarity around what’s important to you, and as a result, you’ve crafted the right questions, and therefore, the manager or the representative from the firm or options you’re considering has put together the right due diligence plan, you can trust that at least 90% of what needs to be gotten right has gotten right.

But there are always things around the margins that aren’t addressed. One is you can’t just outsource the due diligence process. You need to be paying attention. And much like people who trust their doctor and presume the doctor just always has it right, you need to be your own advocate. I would say, the same thing here. That as the process unfolds, there will be additional questions, additional sort of gaps and holes, and you shouldn’t stop until you’ve gotten all of your questions answered. That’s really the best advice I can give.

Jason Diamond:

You are talking to John from XYZ firm and Jim from ABC firm, and they’re going to tell you what’s great about their firms. So how do you know that you’re not just buying a false bill of goods, it’s just a glossy kind of sales pitch? I’ll give you my answer first. Part of it is, I think, you test drive the systems. I think another step I suggest a lot is calls with advisors on the platform. So an advisor who left UBS to go to Morgan Stanley, probably the best possible person to ask about Morgan Stanley. Any other additional thoughts on that one?

Mindy Diamond:

You took the words right out of my mouth. Absolutely, that is the number one way to do it, is that you ask for an opportunity, and you can do it in a name-blind way without identifying yourself, to talk with advisors that have made the move that are two things, that either came from the firm you’re coming from, so you get a similar perspective, but it’s equally important to talk to advisors that have similar business mix. It doesn’t matter what firm they came from, even if it’s not the same as yours, but, “How does someone that services international clients, how are they better able to serve those international clients at this new firm or new model than they were where you are?” We’re talking about it as if it’s wirehouse-to-wirehouse. But very often in today’s world order, especially looking at this giant move from this week, it’s about wirehouse to some version of independence. So there’s so much more due diligence, so many more questions that are required. It is even more important in that world to really get an understanding of what it’s like from the perspective of somebody that’s walking in those shoes.

I will tell you, Jason, and you know this, that literally the number one reason I started this podcast more than a decade ago, and why we continue to do the podcast and the feedback we get, is because the feedback from advisors that have joined a platform already is the very best feedback, the best way, in a discreet confidential manner, to hear the truth from somebody who doesn’t have a horse in the race who’s just sharing their perspective with you. And that’s the feedback we continue to get. In a couple of weeks, I’m interviewing, as an example, Neil Rubinstein. Neil’s an advisor in Texas that came from Merrill that we moved to Rockefeller. A perfect example. So many advisors that are considering a move if they’ve got high net worth clients are going to look at Rockefeller. Well, what better way to understand what Rockefeller is about than to hear it from an advisor that’s walked in the shoes, not only of a Merrill advisor, but services high net worth clients and then have information or perspective similar to Neil. What do you think about that? Do you agree with that?

Jason Diamond:

1000%. First of all, the podcast, I will say, a little bit of a sales pitch, has one thing going for it that a call with an advisor doesn’t, which is complete discretion and confidentiality. I will say, I think we’ve done a good job of doing facilitating name-blind calls between advisors. We continue to harp on this point even though it sounds somewhat minor, because it really is the very… You can talk to people like me and people like the recruiters from the firms until you’re blue in the face. But the right way, the best possible way to learn the, “Is this guy selling me? How does the technology compare to Merrill? How does the day-to-day compare? What’s it like working for this manager?”, all those types of questions, I think are best answered by another advisor. So completely agree with you.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah, and I’ll take it one step further. Somewhere in the process, you take advantage of the opportunity to either listen to a podcast and hear somebody’s perspective of what the move was like, and how it’s bettered their life and where the pitfalls are, and/or you take the opportunity to talk with other advisors that have made the move, so you can ask your own specific questions. But after you’ve had the opportunity to do that, then it’s really important, and this is the part that why you can’t entirely outsource or let the due diligence process just go on autopilot, to take some of that perspective and the manager that you’re interviewing with, hold his or her feet to the fire.

What do I mean by that? So I talked to an advisor that talked about the fact that the number one concern about Rockefeller, I’m making this up, is that they’re going to be the next Merrill, or that they just added a fee that now is going to have to be passed on to clients. While this advisor said it doesn’t bother them and they had a lot of good reason of why it’s not an issue, I’d love for you to tell me why it could be an issue. What are some of the things you’ve gotten wrong? When someone doesn’t join Rockefeller, why is it? I’m making that up-

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, smart. Same thing. Even let go, this advisor mentioned that technology is a step back from the firm I’m coming from. And I’m not asking you to argue with me, but perhaps the manager might be able to say something like, “We’re investing substantially in the platform, and we have these rollouts coming in the next several months that are going to close that gap.” So I completely agree. That’s a really smart-

Mindy Diamond:

And a follow-up question to that example, Jason, which is a great one, is, “How can I trust, how can I get a sense of security, if I join here in the next couple of months that in fact that investment is going to be made? And how that investment in technology will actually impact thing?” So again, it’s constantly being your own advocate, constantly paying attention, and constantly questions beget more questions.

Jason Diamond:

I agree we. Haven’t talked at all about the dollars and cents of this, and I think we need to because it’s important. Right? You can have the best platform on the planet, but the reality is a move comes with risk, a move comes with hassle, and there is a market for advisors’ books of businesses. That’s one of, I think, the major kind of paradigm shifts we’ve seen in the last, call it, decade is advisors know their books are assets, their book is a business, and that business is worth something substantial. At any firm, even at their current firm via retire and place deals, the book is worth something substantial. So if you had to put a percentage to it, I’m an advisor making a decision, 100% waiting, how much percent waiting do I put on the economics and how much waiting do I put on culture, platform, everything else?

Mindy Diamond:

The answer is, absolutely, it’s an inside job, personal, and it depends upon the advisor. There are some advisors, they’re wrong, but they will put all the weight on personal economics. They’re making a big mistake, if that’s the case. And most advisors will put much more weight on getting it right, meaning, “What’s life going to be like afterwards? And will I have a better ability to serve clients and grow the business?” But here’s what I would say, they’re both equally important. So no advisor who’s got a decent enough runway ahead of him or her and who’s looking to really grow the business and who cares about their clients can’t be unconcerned about the culture of where they’re going and what life is going to be like and what are the limitations, all of the questions we’ve been talking about. But an advisor who’s built a great business would be a fool not to consider their own personal economics. It just can’t be the first thing they consider.

And in the book I wrote, Should I Stay or Should I Go?, I wrote that 100 times that it’s all about, “Lead with what’s important to the business and important to clients, do the right thing, but you can’t ignore personal financial gain.” Let’s talk about this move of OpenArc, this $129-billion Merrill team. You can only imagine the number of zeros at the end of a check that this team was offered by every major firm on the street. And in the span of a decade, they got those offers. Independence, making this enormous leap, was not the first thing they looked at, was not necessarily their first choice. But as they began, in their case, to really consider how limited they felt on the things they wanted to be able to do for clients… By the way, I don’t want to steal anybody’s thunder because we’re going to be launching a podcast specifically talking about this deal and this move, so I’ll save that for… Louis Diamond, our partner, and Shirl Penney, the CEO and founder of Dynasty, are going to be talking about it and they’ll cover all of that.

But I just want to give the example that as this team began to realize, certainly in the last five years, how much things had changed at Merrill and how incongruent they felt between their goals, the goals for the business, the goals for serving clients, and what the firm was asking of them since Bank of America came to town, it became impossible to just say, “Holy cow, we can get a check with a lot of zeros at the end of it.” They couldn’t not see the benefits of everything else, the benefits that creating their own independent entity could bring them.

Jason Diamond:

I agree with that. I will play devil’s advocate a little bit here and say, “I think what you’re really talking about is the trade-off.” They’re not martyrs, they’re not altruistic and said, “We don’t want your hundreds of millions of dollars.” I think what you’re talking about is the trade-off between near-term upfront recruiting deals, which is the primary means by which the wirehouses, the regionals, the boutique firms recruit. Right? The traditional forgivable loan structure is all about a short term de-risking of the move, a monetization event in the near term where they’re paying you some percentage of revenue, 350%, 400% of revenue, tied to a forgivable loan. But that’s your bite of the apple in that example.

With the example of a move to independence, you’ll lose, in some cases, all of that upfront monetization. So this example you’re talking about is a good example where they got no upfront transition dollars because they launched an RIA. But, and this is a very important caveat, they know they are building equity and ownership in something that is going to, at the current rate, be worth a preposterous multiple if and when they decide to sell it. So I assume that has to be part of this conversation around independence is, it’s not that you don’t care about monetizing the business, it’s that you plan to monetize the business in a different and probably more significant way. Fair?

Mindy Diamond:

Beyond fair. 1000%, that’s absolutely correct. Again, not only making it about this example, but it’s a good example. So again, the possibility of getting a check with a lot of zeros on it, and by the way, also tapping into an already established well-familiar, well-run infrastructure. Think about how much easier the move would’ve been, to jump from Merrill Lynch to Morgan Stanley, and not probably was their first choice, if they were going to go the traditional route. Think about how much easier the due diligence process… how much less heavy the lift would’ve been in terms of due diligence, but certainly from a short-term upfront perspective. And that’s really the key, is that not everyone has the appetite to bet on the long term. To me, that’s the beauty of the industry landscape as it’s evolved and the waterfall of possibilities today.

If you’re a great team, and there are so many great teams, you’re growing, you’ve got a multi-generational bench of advisors, you’ve got a succession plan, you’ve got sticky clients, you don’t have 5,000 clients but you have 100 or 200 relationships, you’ve got a great business that you’ve got options for it, there’s no right or wrong. It’s, “What do I want to be when I grow up?”, and, “How do I want to live my business life?” And if you query 10 of those great teams, five of them will wind up moving to the traditional space. That doesn’t make it wrong, it’s just, “That’s what’s right for them.” But the other five will have entrepreneurial drive, will value the long term, and willing to forego the short-term upside in order to bet on themselves for the long term. And holy cow, again, we’ll save that for the episode that Shirl and Louis do to talk about what those multiples could look like, but I don’t think there’s enough zeros on the calculator to begin to think about what that business… OpenArc’s business will be worth even as little as five years from now.

Jason Diamond:

I agree with that. I think the one point I would probably make in defense of people who go the traditional firm route… Actually, two points. Number one, I don’t think it’s only about, “I am not willing to bet on myself, and I don’t want to delay the monetization event.” I think for some people, the idea of being independent and putting the toner in the copy machine and the little K-cups, that’s just not appealing. I like going into a branch and they have everything, my desk is all set up. So that’s one caveat I’d make that some people just prefer the traditional firm world.

The other caveat I’d make is there are advisors who, rightly or wrongly, believe in the brand name of the firm mattering. So there are some advisors who say, “Look, I am a good advisor, but my ability to land and grow business is tied very closely to XYZ firm/brand, Morgan Stanley.” I think, a lot of times, we find that’s not always the case as much as advisors believe. But I’m just trying to think of a couple scenarios where there are advisors who genuinely prefer or need or want the stability, big brand, resources of the biggest firms on the planet.

Mindy Diamond:

I totally agree. Actually, thank you for bringing those two caveats up because, I’d say, there’s a third caveat. Someone can’t go independent, they don’t have a next gen. They don’t have someone that could do the heavy lifting, if they’re not capable of doing it on their own, to build an independent firm. They don’t have entrepreneurial spirit. They’re three years from retirement, and they don’t have the kind of time that it takes to really build the value of an independent practice. And we have great respect for those people. But again, the cool thing about the industry landscape is that as it’s evolved, there’s something for everyone. It doesn’t necessarily mean that the only choice is stay put or go to UBS.

Jason Diamond:

Agree. In fact, there’s probably even versions of independence. For example, if you don’t have a successor, well, there are versions of independence that might work where there’s a monetization event on the backend where somebody can buy and inherit your book. So that is probably the coolest or most interesting thing, the most exciting thing anyway, about the industry landscape in the last, really call it, five years anyway, probably even a little sooner than that is, especially in the independent side of things, there are options that check just about every box. You as the advisor choose what elements… And this gets back to your begin with the end in mind. Choose what elements of the business you like, and want to maintain control over. Choose what elements of the business you don’t, and there is probably a solution out there that works to check those boxes.

Mindy Diamond:

And then, that goes back to what we were saying. Even if you are 90% satisfied and 99% certain you would never make a move, if you haven’t gotten educated, in some capacity, whether it be listening to a podcast, reading articles, talking to a recruiter, talking to other firms, talking to friends and colleagues at other firms, or some combination of all of the above, in the last five years, I think you’re doing yourself a disservice. And again, not because in any way we’re trying to sell you on making a move, but because we believe knowledge is power and it looks different than it did. So make sure that you’re challenging your own assumptions, and that you’re really crystal-clear that what you believe or what you believe five years ago is still true today.

Jason Diamond:

This is a little bit of a gear shift, but I think there’s a tie in here. If you are an advisor now, or a point in their career, they’re wise to at least get educated, pick their heads up, understand what’s out there. But then, there’s the question of, “When is due diligence done?” But I’m going to frame this through a different lens here, which is, “Now, I’m an advisor, I’ve done due diligence, I’ve talked to maybe three to five strategic firms.” Is there typically an aha moment when an advisor says, “Oh, my god. It’s RBC, and I need to go that way and I know I need to move”? Or is it more process driven than that? What are your thoughts? Because I think a lot of advisors struggle with that. And I often find myself telling advisors, “Trust the process here and you’ll know when… You don’t have to know right away in the first inning of due diligence which firm or which model you’re meeting, or even if you’re going to make a move.” But curious what your thoughts are on this one.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. In fact, we hope you don’t. We hope that you don’t go into this process with preconceived notions, we hope that you don’t make a decision after one meeting, because we do think that there’s value in the process. And people get to that aha moment at different times. You and I are working with a team, right now, that is 22 meetings in. And that’s not to say every process takes 22 meetings, but the team is sort of taking it slowly. They started out looking at five or six firms. They’ve narrowed it down now to three. The goal is to get to two or one, then to get to a home office visit to the one that’s their first choice. They’re absolutely getting closer. And I’m probably exaggerating at 22 meetings, but I’m making a point, that even at this point in the game, which is probably a good, would you say, five months into the due diligence process, I don’t know that they’ve had an aha moment.

They have an aha moment that they know they don’t want another wirehouse. They don’t want to be independent because the senior member of the team is exactly that person we just described, that he doesn’t have the kind of time in the business in order to make independence worthwhile-

Jason Diamond:

Or drive. They just don’t want independence.

Mindy Diamond:

Right, and the next generation doesn’t really want it. So at this point of the game, the aha moment is think we want a regional firm or a boutique firm. But it’s not an aha moment yet that it’s going to be this firm, and that’s I think a good point. A lot of times, the aha moment is the model, first, and then the firm.

Jason Diamond:

Sometimes, deal can be the type like, “Okay. I know I love the regional firms, but one is offering a deal that’s 100% better,” and that’s often when we actually will counsel advisors, “It’s okay to consider the deal.” The deal is a factor, as you said earlier.

Mindy Diamond:

If I can, that’s actually a great point. That’s the perfect example of where, “Always consider the deal, just don’t make it your primary or first consideration.”

Jason Diamond:

Right.

Mindy Diamond:

So if you’ve done all the right due diligence and two firms or two opportunities stack up next to each other perfectly, they both will allow you to move the needle significantly enough. If they both will allow you to do better for clients and grow faster, and do everything else that’s important to you, then it’s absolutely time to make deal the tiebreaker.

Jason Diamond:

So you threw out five months and talking about 22 meetings, let’s table that. An advisor calls you, Mindy, this morning and says, “Not unhappy, but I’m getting that itch.” Give me the average time it takes them from that first call this morning to the moment they resigned from their firm, and then give me the quickest they could do it if they needed to.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. Let me start out by saying that those calls we get from advisors come in two different categories. One is, “Yeah, getting the itch. The straw that broke the camel’s back happened yesterday when X happened.” But the other call, the one we mentioned earlier, which is, “I am 90% happy. I am growing exponentially. I get time to coach my kids’ soccer game. I have great quality of life. I have a great team. I’ve been here 30 or 40 years, and life is good. I’m watching more of my colleagues go or I’m feeling more pain,” fill in the blank for whatever that is. “Even though I’m 90% happy and I’m 100% convinced I don’t want to move, that moving is a hassle, I can’t not see the handwriting on the wall and I at least need to get educated.”

So let’s assume that we get one of those calls. The reason I am calling out the difference between the two is because the time it takes to do the due diligence is usually different. If someone is already at the point where they know that they’re unhappy and likely to move, the due diligence process usually runs quicker. The due diligence process for somebody that’s mostly happy and just beginning to get curious, sort of the latter example, might take a little longer.

Jason Diamond:

Give me some real parameters to it.

Mindy Diamond:

Well, I’d love to hear what you think. What’s swirling in my head, it’s all over the map, but I’m going to say typically six months.

Jason Diamond:

Six months was the number I was about to throw out as well. And I think the quickest you want to do this is three months. Anything beyond that starts to be basically a fire drill. We’ve done deals quicker than that obviously, an advisor’s going to or has been terminated. But I think six months in earnest is a good, healthy timeline. Especially, by the way, because a lot of firms are busy, we’re hearing this from a lot of the firm side of things these days. Depending upon what firm you’re moving to, you need to make sure that the firm can handle you. You want to get their A team upon your breakaway and your transition, no matter what firm that is.

Mindy Diamond:

Do you think, Jason, that it’s six months from, “Gee, I’m a little curious. I want to start to look. I want to begin to do due diligence. What does that look like?”, to, “My butt is in a new seat”?

Jason Diamond:

No. Because I think in the example where you’re just like, “Eh, I’m a little unhappy,” those early innings conversations typically play out slowly because the guy who’s 90% happy is in no rush to say, “Set me up with a bunch of firms, and let’s talk about it.” In those instances, it could take a year and a half because I think what happens really there is then there’s a catalyst event that takes them from your category two to category one. Right? They went from a little unhappy, just curious, to the straw that broke the camel’s back. And that’s when then they shift into the more… or they say the firm has… A good example, UBS, upset a lot of advisors with the compensation plan. They recently walked back a lot of those changes. I’m certain there will be some advisors who say, “This is a nod to attrition. I’ve seen from management what I need to see, and I’m going to stay put.” Equally, probably plenty of advisors who say, “It’s too little too late.”

Mindy Diamond:

Let me say something, and again, not to make this episode at all about this team in Atlanta, but that was a ten-year conversation for us. Literally, 10 years ago, maybe even 12 years ago, but let’s say 10, one of the senior partners on the team had called to say, “Curious, really happy, doing incredibly well. Zero chance we are moving in the next year or two or five.” But look, what don’t we know? And every year, we would then have a conversation about what the landscape looked like. But I’m going to say it was six years ago when the conversation shifted from, “Really happy, convinced we’re staying,” to, “starting to think we might leave at some point,” but another six years until this really happened. Now, that’s a good example because they were going independent. The transition itself probably took a year, year and a half.

Jason Diamond:

And the size and complexity of the team, by the way, probably amplifies that as well.

Mindy Diamond:

Well, there are outliers on either side, and that’s the point I wanted to make. Correct.

Jason Diamond:

Very fair. I’m glad you bring that up because there’s no cookie-cutter answer. It totally depends on the makeup of the business, where you’re going, how you’re going, when you’re going. I think we have time for two more questions, and I want to make sure we get to this because we’ve talked about this through the lens of the advisor and the advisor’s team. We haven’t talked much about the client experience, and that is clearly self-portability, in general, is something that gives advisors anxiety rightfully so. I think if you could tell a lot of advisors with 100% certainty that their book would move, I think many more would be interested in moving. I think concerns about portability, a lot of times, would keep advisors in seats. I guess what I’m getting at is because that initial client conversation is so important, is there anything you coach advisors to think about or to say to clients or potential clients as they consider a change, a transition?

Mindy Diamond:

Well, you have to be mindful certainly of your own employment agreement and legal considerations of pre-soliciting-

Jason Diamond:

Important point.

Mindy Diamond:

No way are any of us advocating for pre-solicitation. But you do have to have a pretty good sense in your mind without asking the client specifically, who is likely to come and who not. And the determination, the sort of hypothesis or the supposition, of who will come and who will not has everything to do with where you’re going and the value proposition, “Will I be able to make a compelling enough point? Will I have compelling enough reasons where it’s not about me, the advisor, it’s about you, the clients, about how I will better be able to service them? And if I’m able to say to a client, ‘If I make a move or I’m making this move and I’m now going to be able to do X, Y, and Z for you,’ I’m much more confident that they will be able to come?”

In the case of this OpenArc deal, the Atlanta team, they did a lot of retirement plan business, so they had to be really concerned about how they were going to position this move and the new brand separating from Merrill brand, how they were going to convince their Fortune 500 clients that this was the right move. So it always has to start with what’s best for clients and how will I pitch it, if you will.

Jason Diamond:

I love how you answered that because it’s like two different answers to me. Part one is handicapping the portability, and that’s pre-transition during the due diligence process. Honestly, if you’re an advisor, you could do that now, right? If I were to make a move, “Here’s my client who I know with 100% certainty would follow me. Here’s the maybes, here’s the no,” you come up with a weighted average portability metric. I totally agree with you on that. And then the second piece of it is you have to be constantly thinking this option might sound the best to you, but remember, and I agree, not pre-solicit, but post-transition, you’re going to have to sell it to your clients. So you need to be thinking about every conversation you have with every firm through that lens. Do you agree with that? Meaning I’m going to move my business from UBS to Morgan Stanley. You get paid a big check, but can you articulate the clients-

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah, 1000%. It’s such a good point because, and we’re going to give you some inside baseball here, the number one question that any advisor who is in traffic with any firm or any model needs to ask is, put words in my mouth, “If we were fast forwarding to the day I made a move and joined your firm or joined your model, help me to understand what would the pitch to my clients sound like.” And then, you need to sort of absorb that pitch from the perspective of your clients. Put yourself in the shoes of your oldest clients, of your youngest clients, of your most important clients, of your middle-of-the-road clients, of your middle net worth clients, of the institutional clients, fill in the blank, “Does that value proposition fit?” That is one of the best ways to assess whether a firm or an opportunity is better enough or good enough for you.

Jason Diamond:

It’s such a good answer, and I love the inside baseball look there. Also, by the way, it has this side benefit of you’re forcing the managers or the recruiters to articulate almost like a succinct value prop on their firm. Right? Tell me, hypothetically, what would I say to clients about, and you’re just picking on Morgan, “Why is Morgan Stanley better than my current firm?” And that answer ought to be compelling.

In closing, I want to wrap this up with a question around the difficulty of a move. You’ve been in this business now 30 years, I think it’s almost exactly 30 years. Has it gotten easier logistically to transition? And do you see that trend continuing, let’s say, because of partially things like AI, DocuSign and the like? What are your thoughts on the nuts and bolts of transitioning?

Mindy Diamond:

There’s no question it’s gotten easier. There’s no question that, from a legal perspective, the advent of broker protocol certainly makes it less scary or less risky to make a move. But there are plenty of moves that are made as a non-protocol move, and that’s not always the case. And the ecosystem, I should say, has gotten better to support the advisor in transition. Legal counsel, all they do all day long is facilitate these moves. Third-party consultancies, people like us that have been at it 30 years and have seen it all, and all the mistakes have already been made, we know how to do it. But with that said, moving is a hassle. No matter how much better the support system has gotten, no matter how many times a manager or a firm has transitioned advisors, it is a hassle to move. It is disruptive. It is a lot.

And again, this statement is not going to win me a place in the headhunter hall of fame, but you should absolutely not consider a move unless you have the appetite for some risk, for some breakage, meaning some loss of clients, and you’re willing to shrink to grow, and you’ve got an appetite for some hassle factor to work perhaps harder for a short period of time than you have in a while. If you don’t have that, then no matter how unhappy you are, you really need to seriously consider whether moving is the best way to solve your problems.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah. It’s a really great way to tie a bow on this episode. It was a lot of fun. I’m excited. I think that would be 2037 based on your 12-year timeline. So the next $129-billion team, we’ll have to schedule that episode out for 10 or 12 years from now. But Mindy, thank you so much for sharing your years of wisdom and expertise with us. This was a fantastic episode. I had a lot of fun.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah, I loved it too. Thank you, my pleasure.

Jason Diamond:

Thank you for joining us. We’ll be back with a new episode next week, so be sure to listen in.

Mindy Diamond:

As a financial advisor, you hold yourself to the highest standards of integrity, honesty, and credibility. You are successful because you take your professional responsibility seriously and are dedicated to your clients. But are you living your best business life? Are your goals aligned with your firms, or could a better option exist? Should I Stay or Should I Go? is a book written with you in mind. It’s a self-guided journey that walks you through the key steps that we take with our advisor clients. This strategic thought process and road map to professional self-discovery is designed to help you ask the right questions and think critically and objectively, whether you’re considering change or not. Learn how to get your copy at diamond-consultants.com/thebook.

The Advisor Transition Playbook: Inside Baseball on Due Diligence, the Move, and Everything In Between

A Special Industry Update with Jason Diamond and Mindy Diamond.

Jason Diamond:

Welcome to a replay of one of the most popular episodes from our podcast series for financial advisors, The Advisor Transition Playbook: Inside Baseball on Due Diligence, the Move, and Everything In Between. It’s Part 1 of a 2-Part Industry Update with Mindy Diamond. I’m Jason Diamond and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors.

Mindy Diamond:

At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned. And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more, who change firms, are our clients. Our process is education driven and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at (908) 879-1002.

Wondering why advisors change firms, and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual Advisor Transition Report. It’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport.

Jason Diamond:

Everything about a transition can seem incredibly overwhelming. From understanding the whys of a move, then conducting due diligence, and onto aligning the right models and selecting the best firms, it might seem like a fairly linear process. And for some, it can be. But for others, the layers of minutia can be daunting. Essentially, it comes down to the adage, “You don’t know what you don’t know.” So the goal of this episode is to share some inside baseball in how to get from here to there. I asked Mindy Diamond to join me to help draw from decades of experience in helping advisors through their transitions. We’ve dived into the misconceptions, the common traps, the aware of a big check and much more. Essentially, it’s a download of what you need to know when considering a move. There’s a lot to discuss, so let’s get to it.

Mindy, so excited to have you join me for this topic.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah, I’m really happy to be here. And I’m just thinking to myself, “Yikes, decades of experience,” you’ve said, and yes it is, decades of experience.

Jason Diamond:

It most certainly is, 30 years in the business. So the seeding for this topic was, “You’ve been in this business now for 30 years, how many hundreds of thousands of conversations with advisors is that?” Some who moved, plenty who certainly did not. But ultimately, what we thought would be useful because it’s a question we get most commonly from advisors that we speak with is, “Tell me what I don’t know. What are the questions I should be asking?” So I’m going to just pepper you with some of the most common questions we get, and I would love to share the benefit of your wisdom and experience with our audience. That sound good?

Mindy Diamond:

It sounds great. I just want to say that we are recording this two days after one of the largest deals probably in the history of the industry broke that I am gratified to say we facilitated the OpenArc team who left Merrill with 129 billion in assets under management, broke a couple days ago to go independent. I’m hoping we have the opportunity to talk about some of their best practices and things we discovered along the way because I think it’s relevant. And a deal like this gets a lot of attention, people always want to know what they do and what went wrong.

Jason Diamond:

It’s a good point. I’m glad you bring it up. First of all, it’s so timely, but I think you can almost use it as a case study a little bit to answer some of these questions. So let’s dive in with that. I want to start with the big picture, “Why?” Because that’s the number one thing I think people want to know is, “Why do advisors move?” And I think there’s an assumption that 95% of transitions happen because of a big check or because of economics. I’m certain you’re going to touch on that to some extent, but give me your sense of what are the main triggers of advisor movement.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. Look, are there some advisors that move because they need to recapitalize or they want the money? Sure. But the absolute vast majority are moving because they come to a place where one of two things is true, and oftentimes both. One, the pain of staying is great enough. Meaning there’s enough frustrations or limitations that they’ve gotten to a point where despite efforts to the contrary to make it better, despite gutting it out and saying, “On par, it’s good enough,” they come to a point where there’s limitations in how they can serve their clients, how they can grow the business, and that’s just untenable for them. Hopefully, simultaneously, they are equally excited and have identified an opportunity that they believe is needle-moving enough, it’s worth the hassle, the disruption, the everything to make this move. I’ve never done a move where it doesn’t fall into one of those two or, hopefully, both of those categories.

Jason Diamond:

Let’s go a little deeper there. You mentioned limitations. Give me an example either using this recent deal or even just any recent advisors that you’ve worked with about, “What are some limitations that people experience at,” let’s say, “the wirehouses that potentially would be a catalyst for a move?”

Mindy Diamond:

Generally speaking, the biggest limitations have to do with how they’re able to grow their business and serve their clients. So anything to do with excess bureaucracy, anything to do with an incongruence, if you will, between the advisors or the team’s goals for how they want to serve clients or grow the business and what the firm is allowing them to do. Using this enormous deal as an example, you’ve got a team that was doing extraordinarily well. Oh, my god. They were the biggest team at Merrill, so talk about having a batphone to the top and the attention of senior leadership. If anyone was going to be able to break through the red tape or get things done, or eschew the limitations, it was them. And for a long time, they did.

But they were sort of increasingly unhappy, let’s say, over a decade. Despite their size, every year, they became a little bit more frustrated. And after probably six or seven years of saying, “We’re just too big to move,” they came to a point of saying, “We can’t ignore this anymore. We’ve got a tiger by its tail. We have this extraordinary business that is growing exponentially. We’ve got clients that are complaining to us. And more importantly, we’ve got team members that are feeling stifled.” And that’s where it comes from, where there’s problems you just can’t ignore even if you want to.

Jason Diamond:

It almost feels like one of those things where advisors know they’re limited, they can just feel it. But if you’re fighting against the firm, and instead of with it. I’ll give you one other one that comes to mind as we’re talking here, that seems to come up a lot in advisor conversations, which is freedom of marketing. And that might seem like a fairly minor limitation, but I can’t tell you how many times, certainly myself, I’m sure you too, get call from an advisor who is heated. They’re angry because they were trying to send some timely market commentary and the firm took two weeks to approve it. Does that fall under the same category of limitations, in your mind?

Mindy Diamond:

Oh, without a doubt. And it’s funny you say that because in this world of social media where the news is consumed or can be consumed within seconds of an event happening, there’s nothing more frustrating for an advisor than wanting to write a newsletter to update their clients with scale as opposed to having to make one phone call at a time and not being able to do so. It absolutely puts them on a back foot. And then, I think it’s the lack of freedom to differentiate themselves. Most advisors that work for big firms have a firm website that is templated, the same sort of structure of the website and the picture of the team and the same basic wordings, and that’s hard to deal with.

Jason Diamond:

Well, you bring up an interesting point, which is sometimes… For example, advisors might say or wirehouse advisors might say, “Oh, the marketing is good enough.” But a lot of times, and we’ve had advisors on this podcast who talk about exactly this, they don’t realize how limited the sandbox they were playing in is or was until after a transition. And that’s when their eyes open and they realize, “Oh, my god. I was basically playing with one arm tied behind my back.” We’ve heard advisors use that metaphor. Let me ask you this then, and this is a tough question, what do you think advisors get wrong? What is the number one misconception that advisors have prior to approaching due diligence and thinking about a move? And maybe it’s something as simple as like, “Eh, it’s the same everywhere,” but tell me what you think you hear most commonly.

Mindy Diamond:

There’s certainly those myths, the assumptions or presumptions that it’s the same everywhere or there’s nothing that’s going to change anyway, for sure. But I think the biggest and most fundamental thing they get wrong is a lack of clarity around, “What it is they’re trying to accomplish, and why?” I’d like to say that I think one of the things, the thing, we do better than most, I’m not going to say everyone else but better than most, and something we’re really good at, is helping advisors to answer the really tough questions, the smartest questions, to get a sense of what it is they’re looking to accomplish, what it is they want to improve and why, “What does success look like?” Because if you don’t do that, then a lot of folks do it backwards.

They get a phone call from a manager at Morgan Stanley or from somebody at Schwab or somebody at Dynasty, or whatever it may be, and they say, “I’ll take a lunch, why not?” And of course, the job of the manager from Morgan or the sales rep from Dynasty, or whatever it is, is to tell you all the good things about independence or about Morgan Stanley. But if I, as the advisor, am not really clear about what it is I’m looking to accomplish and why, it’s going to all sound good and I’m going to wind up more overwhelmed than when I started. And that is probably the number one thing that we see advisors getting wrong. It makes the due diligence process, if you choose to enter it, exceedingly inefficient.

Jason Diamond:

I totally agree. So I’m an advisor, I want to start due diligence in earnest. I know in my head, things are suboptimal. I’m not going to go so far as to say,” I definitively want to move.” But I’m a wirehouse advisor and I’m thinking for the first time in my career, “I’ve built a nice business, but it’s time for me to start getting educated.” So what do I do? Do I just say, “Hey, John at Morgan Stanley, what’s your recruiting deal look like these days?” Tell me, for an advisor who’s never thought about this before, what are the ABCs of this process look like?

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. It’s definitely not, the first step, calling Morgan Stanley, even if you’re pretty sure Morgan Stanley is where you want to go. I’d suggest that’s probably one of the last steps, and I’ll tell you why. The first thing is to give yourself permission to say, “Even if I’m not 100% certain that a move is in my future or that I know I’m unhappy enough to go through the hassle and disruption of making a move,” to give yourself permission to get educated. The world, the industry landscape, the ecosystem, the everything looks entirely different than it did five and 10 years ago. And if it’s been five or 10 years, or even three to five years, since you last got educated, asked the questions, looked under the hood to get a sense of, “Is there or could there be something that’s better than where I am?”, you’re doing yourself and your team a disservice.

Yeah, it takes time and it’s annoying and it’s overwhelming, and it’s all of it, but that’s honestly why people like us have a job. We don’t approach this that we think people should only come to us when they’re sure they’re going to make a move. In fact, it’s the opposite. We love the calls we get when somebody says, “I’m really happy here. I’ve been here 40 years. I’ve been here 30 years, it’s really good enough, it’s working well for me.” “But all of a sudden, I’m beginning to be curious. Or all of a sudden, I feel X, Y and Z. Tell me what I don’t know.” Those are the best calls. Those are the smartest calls. That’s the best thing an advisor can do.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, I agree with that. Are there things you think an advisor needs to ask for during the diligence… I guess what I’m getting at is, do you trust the process that if you go through this process with, let’s say, three to five strategically picked firms… So you work within a recruiter or, a shameless plug, however you approach this, and you end up with your short list of contenders. Do you trust that, by going through the due diligence process, these firms are going to give you the building blocks that you need to do proper due diligence? Or are there things you, as an advisor, need to ask for? I’ll give you one example that comes to mind, which is… There’s obviously been some firms that have had financial troubles recently. So do you think an advisor, for example, needs to ask for financial statements from a firm they’re potentially considering due diligence on? I’m curious what your thoughts are.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. Particularly, if you’re looking at sort of in this new world order, if we think about the landscape as a continuum and the newer boutique multifamily offices on the right side, absolutely. Conducting what we call reverse due diligence and getting to see the financials of the firms you’re considering, to make sure that they’re sound and solid and that the equity valuation is exactly as advertised, of course, yes, that’s true. So the answer is, in part, you trust the process. You trust that if you’ve asked the right questions, if you’ve gotten clarity around what’s important to you, and as a result, you’ve crafted the right questions, and therefore, the manager or the representative from the firm or options you’re considering has put together the right due diligence plan, you can trust that at least 90% of what needs to be gotten right has gotten right.

But there are always things around the margins that aren’t addressed. One is you can’t just outsource the due diligence process. You need to be paying attention. And much like people who trust their doctor and presume the doctor just always has it right, you need to be your own advocate. I would say, the same thing here. That as the process unfolds, there will be additional questions, additional sort of gaps and holes, and you shouldn’t stop until you’ve gotten all of your questions answered. That’s really the best advice I can give.

Jason Diamond:

You are talking to John from XYZ firm and Jim from ABC firm, and they’re going to tell you what’s great about their firms. So how do you know that you’re not just buying a false bill of goods, it’s just a glossy kind of sales pitch? I’ll give you my answer first. Part of it is, I think, you test drive the systems. I think another step I suggest a lot is calls with advisors on the platform. So an advisor who left UBS to go to Morgan Stanley, probably the best possible person to ask about Morgan Stanley. Any other additional thoughts on that one?

Mindy Diamond:

You took the words right out of my mouth. Absolutely, that is the number one way to do it, is that you ask for an opportunity, and you can do it in a name-blind way without identifying yourself, to talk with advisors that have made the move that are two things, that either came from the firm you’re coming from, so you get a similar perspective, but it’s equally important to talk to advisors that have similar business mix. It doesn’t matter what firm they came from, even if it’s not the same as yours, but, “How does someone that services international clients, how are they better able to serve those international clients at this new firm or new model than they were where you are?” We’re talking about it as if it’s wirehouse-to-wirehouse. But very often in today’s world order, especially looking at this giant move from this week, it’s about wirehouse to some version of independence. So there’s so much more due diligence, so many more questions that are required. It is even more important in that world to really get an understanding of what it’s like from the perspective of somebody that’s walking in those shoes.

I will tell you, Jason, and you know this, that literally the number one reason I started this podcast more than a decade ago, and why we continue to do the podcast and the feedback we get, is because the feedback from advisors that have joined a platform already is the very best feedback, the best way, in a discreet confidential manner, to hear the truth from somebody who doesn’t have a horse in the race who’s just sharing their perspective with you. And that’s the feedback we continue to get. In a couple of weeks, I’m interviewing, as an example, Neil Rubinstein. Neil’s an advisor in Texas that came from Merrill that we moved to Rockefeller. A perfect example. So many advisors that are considering a move if they’ve got high net worth clients are going to look at Rockefeller. Well, what better way to understand what Rockefeller is about than to hear it from an advisor that’s walked in the shoes, not only of a Merrill advisor, but services high net worth clients and then have information or perspective similar to Neil. What do you think about that? Do you agree with that?

Jason Diamond:

1000%. First of all, the podcast, I will say, a little bit of a sales pitch, has one thing going for it that a call with an advisor doesn’t, which is complete discretion and confidentiality. I will say, I think we’ve done a good job of doing facilitating name-blind calls between advisors. We continue to harp on this point even though it sounds somewhat minor, because it really is the very… You can talk to people like me and people like the recruiters from the firms until you’re blue in the face. But the right way, the best possible way to learn the, “Is this guy selling me? How does the technology compare to Merrill? How does the day-to-day compare? What’s it like working for this manager?”, all those types of questions, I think are best answered by another advisor. So completely agree with you.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah, and I’ll take it one step further. Somewhere in the process, you take advantage of the opportunity to either listen to a podcast and hear somebody’s perspective of what the move was like, and how it’s bettered their life and where the pitfalls are, and/or you take the opportunity to talk with other advisors that have made the move, so you can ask your own specific questions. But after you’ve had the opportunity to do that, then it’s really important, and this is the part that why you can’t entirely outsource or let the due diligence process just go on autopilot, to take some of that perspective and the manager that you’re interviewing with, hold his or her feet to the fire.

What do I mean by that? So I talked to an advisor that talked about the fact that the number one concern about Rockefeller, I’m making this up, is that they’re going to be the next Merrill, or that they just added a fee that now is going to have to be passed on to clients. While this advisor said it doesn’t bother them and they had a lot of good reason of why it’s not an issue, I’d love for you to tell me why it could be an issue. What are some of the things you’ve gotten wrong? When someone doesn’t join Rockefeller, why is it? I’m making that up-

Jason Diamond:

Yeah, smart. Same thing. Even let go, this advisor mentioned that technology is a step back from the firm I’m coming from. And I’m not asking you to argue with me, but perhaps the manager might be able to say something like, “We’re investing substantially in the platform, and we have these rollouts coming in the next several months that are going to close that gap.” So I completely agree. That’s a really smart-

Mindy Diamond:

And a follow-up question to that example, Jason, which is a great one, is, “How can I trust, how can I get a sense of security, if I join here in the next couple of months that in fact that investment is going to be made? And how that investment in technology will actually impact thing?” So again, it’s constantly being your own advocate, constantly paying attention, and constantly questions beget more questions.

Jason Diamond:

I agree we. Haven’t talked at all about the dollars and cents of this, and I think we need to because it’s important. Right? You can have the best platform on the planet, but the reality is a move comes with risk, a move comes with hassle, and there is a market for advisors’ books of businesses. That’s one of, I think, the major kind of paradigm shifts we’ve seen in the last, call it, decade is advisors know their books are assets, their book is a business, and that business is worth something substantial. At any firm, even at their current firm via retire and place deals, the book is worth something substantial. So if you had to put a percentage to it, I’m an advisor making a decision, 100% waiting, how much percent waiting do I put on the economics and how much waiting do I put on culture, platform, everything else?

Mindy Diamond:

The answer is, absolutely, it’s an inside job, personal, and it depends upon the advisor. There are some advisors, they’re wrong, but they will put all the weight on personal economics. They’re making a big mistake, if that’s the case. And most advisors will put much more weight on getting it right, meaning, “What’s life going to be like afterwards? And will I have a better ability to serve clients and grow the business?” But here’s what I would say, they’re both equally important. So no advisor who’s got a decent enough runway ahead of him or her and who’s looking to really grow the business and who cares about their clients can’t be unconcerned about the culture of where they’re going and what life is going to be like and what are the limitations, all of the questions we’ve been talking about. But an advisor who’s built a great business would be a fool not to consider their own personal economics. It just can’t be the first thing they consider.

And in the book I wrote, Should I Stay or Should I Go?, I wrote that 100 times that it’s all about, “Lead with what’s important to the business and important to clients, do the right thing, but you can’t ignore personal financial gain.” Let’s talk about this move of OpenArc, this $129-billion Merrill team. You can only imagine the number of zeros at the end of a check that this team was offered by every major firm on the street. And in the span of a decade, they got those offers. Independence, making this enormous leap, was not the first thing they looked at, was not necessarily their first choice. But as they began, in their case, to really consider how limited they felt on the things they wanted to be able to do for clients… By the way, I don’t want to steal anybody’s thunder because we’re going to be launching a podcast specifically talking about this deal and this move, so I’ll save that for… Louis Diamond, our partner, and Shirl Penney, the CEO and founder of Dynasty, are going to be talking about it and they’ll cover all of that.

But I just want to give the example that as this team began to realize, certainly in the last five years, how much things had changed at Merrill and how incongruent they felt between their goals, the goals for the business, the goals for serving clients, and what the firm was asking of them since Bank of America came to town, it became impossible to just say, “Holy cow, we can get a check with a lot of zeros at the end of it.” They couldn’t not see the benefits of everything else, the benefits that creating their own independent entity could bring them.

Jason Diamond:

I agree with that. I will play devil’s advocate a little bit here and say, “I think what you’re really talking about is the trade-off.” They’re not martyrs, they’re not altruistic and said, “We don’t want your hundreds of millions of dollars.” I think what you’re talking about is the trade-off between near-term upfront recruiting deals, which is the primary means by which the wirehouses, the regionals, the boutique firms recruit. Right? The traditional forgivable loan structure is all about a short term de-risking of the move, a monetization event in the near term where they’re paying you some percentage of revenue, 350%, 400% of revenue, tied to a forgivable loan. But that’s your bite of the apple in that example.

With the example of a move to independence, you’ll lose, in some cases, all of that upfront monetization. So this example you’re talking about is a good example where they got no upfront transition dollars because they launched an RIA. But, and this is a very important caveat, they know they are building equity and ownership in something that is going to, at the current rate, be worth a preposterous multiple if and when they decide to sell it. So I assume that has to be part of this conversation around independence is, it’s not that you don’t care about monetizing the business, it’s that you plan to monetize the business in a different and probably more significant way. Fair?

Mindy Diamond:

Beyond fair. 1000%, that’s absolutely correct. Again, not only making it about this example, but it’s a good example. So again, the possibility of getting a check with a lot of zeros on it, and by the way, also tapping into an already established well-familiar, well-run infrastructure. Think about how much easier the move would’ve been, to jump from Merrill Lynch to Morgan Stanley, and not probably was their first choice, if they were going to go the traditional route. Think about how much easier the due diligence process… how much less heavy the lift would’ve been in terms of due diligence, but certainly from a short-term upfront perspective. And that’s really the key, is that not everyone has the appetite to bet on the long term. To me, that’s the beauty of the industry landscape as it’s evolved and the waterfall of possibilities today.

If you’re a great team, and there are so many great teams, you’re growing, you’ve got a multi-generational bench of advisors, you’ve got a succession plan, you’ve got sticky clients, you don’t have 5,000 clients but you have 100 or 200 relationships, you’ve got a great business that you’ve got options for it, there’s no right or wrong. It’s, “What do I want to be when I grow up?”, and, “How do I want to live my business life?” And if you query 10 of those great teams, five of them will wind up moving to the traditional space. That doesn’t make it wrong, it’s just, “That’s what’s right for them.” But the other five will have entrepreneurial drive, will value the long term, and willing to forego the short-term upside in order to bet on themselves for the long term. And holy cow, again, we’ll save that for the episode that Shirl and Louis do to talk about what those multiples could look like, but I don’t think there’s enough zeros on the calculator to begin to think about what that business… OpenArc’s business will be worth even as little as five years from now.

Jason Diamond:

I agree with that. I think the one point I would probably make in defense of people who go the traditional firm route… Actually, two points. Number one, I don’t think it’s only about, “I am not willing to bet on myself, and I don’t want to delay the monetization event.” I think for some people, the idea of being independent and putting the toner in the copy machine and the little K-cups, that’s just not appealing. I like going into a branch and they have everything, my desk is all set up. So that’s one caveat I’d make that some people just prefer the traditional firm world.

The other caveat I’d make is there are advisors who, rightly or wrongly, believe in the brand name of the firm mattering. So there are some advisors who say, “Look, I am a good advisor, but my ability to land and grow business is tied very closely to XYZ firm/brand, Morgan Stanley.” I think, a lot of times, we find that’s not always the case as much as advisors believe. But I’m just trying to think of a couple scenarios where there are advisors who genuinely prefer or need or want the stability, big brand, resources of the biggest firms on the planet.

Mindy Diamond:

I totally agree. Actually, thank you for bringing those two caveats up because, I’d say, there’s a third caveat. Someone can’t go independent, they don’t have a next gen. They don’t have someone that could do the heavy lifting, if they’re not capable of doing it on their own, to build an independent firm. They don’t have entrepreneurial spirit. They’re three years from retirement, and they don’t have the kind of time that it takes to really build the value of an independent practice. And we have great respect for those people. But again, the cool thing about the industry landscape is that as it’s evolved, there’s something for everyone. It doesn’t necessarily mean that the only choice is stay put or go to UBS.

Jason Diamond:

Agree. In fact, there’s probably even versions of independence. For example, if you don’t have a successor, well, there are versions of independence that might work where there’s a monetization event on the backend where somebody can buy and inherit your book. So that is probably the coolest or most interesting thing, the most exciting thing anyway, about the industry landscape in the last, really call it, five years anyway, probably even a little sooner than that is, especially in the independent side of things, there are options that check just about every box. You as the advisor choose what elements… And this gets back to your begin with the end in mind. Choose what elements of the business you like, and want to maintain control over. Choose what elements of the business you don’t, and there is probably a solution out there that works to check those boxes.

Mindy Diamond:

And then, that goes back to what we were saying. Even if you are 90% satisfied and 99% certain you would never make a move, if you haven’t gotten educated, in some capacity, whether it be listening to a podcast, reading articles, talking to a recruiter, talking to other firms, talking to friends and colleagues at other firms, or some combination of all of the above, in the last five years, I think you’re doing yourself a disservice. And again, not because in any way we’re trying to sell you on making a move, but because we believe knowledge is power and it looks different than it did. So make sure that you’re challenging your own assumptions, and that you’re really crystal-clear that what you believe or what you believe five years ago is still true today.

Jason Diamond:

This is a little bit of a gear shift, but I think there’s a tie in here. If you are an advisor now, or a point in their career, they’re wise to at least get educated, pick their heads up, understand what’s out there. But then, there’s the question of, “When is due diligence done?” But I’m going to frame this through a different lens here, which is, “Now, I’m an advisor, I’ve done due diligence, I’ve talked to maybe three to five strategic firms.” Is there typically an aha moment when an advisor says, “Oh, my god. It’s RBC, and I need to go that way and I know I need to move”? Or is it more process driven than that? What are your thoughts? Because I think a lot of advisors struggle with that. And I often find myself telling advisors, “Trust the process here and you’ll know when… You don’t have to know right away in the first inning of due diligence which firm or which model you’re meeting, or even if you’re going to make a move.” But curious what your thoughts are on this one.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. In fact, we hope you don’t. We hope that you don’t go into this process with preconceived notions, we hope that you don’t make a decision after one meeting, because we do think that there’s value in the process. And people get to that aha moment at different times. You and I are working with a team, right now, that is 22 meetings in. And that’s not to say every process takes 22 meetings, but the team is sort of taking it slowly. They started out looking at five or six firms. They’ve narrowed it down now to three. The goal is to get to two or one, then to get to a home office visit to the one that’s their first choice. They’re absolutely getting closer. And I’m probably exaggerating at 22 meetings, but I’m making a point, that even at this point in the game, which is probably a good, would you say, five months into the due diligence process, I don’t know that they’ve had an aha moment.

They have an aha moment that they know they don’t want another wirehouse. They don’t want to be independent because the senior member of the team is exactly that person we just described, that he doesn’t have the kind of time in the business in order to make independence worthwhile-

Jason Diamond:

Or drive. They just don’t want independence.

Mindy Diamond:

Right, and the next generation doesn’t really want it. So at this point of the game, the aha moment is think we want a regional firm or a boutique firm. But it’s not an aha moment yet that it’s going to be this firm, and that’s I think a good point. A lot of times, the aha moment is the model, first, and then the firm.

Jason Diamond:

Sometimes, deal can be the type like, “Okay. I know I love the regional firms, but one is offering a deal that’s 100% better,” and that’s often when we actually will counsel advisors, “It’s okay to consider the deal.” The deal is a factor, as you said earlier.

Mindy Diamond:

If I can, that’s actually a great point. That’s the perfect example of where, “Always consider the deal, just don’t make it your primary or first consideration.”

Jason Diamond:

Right.

Mindy Diamond:

So if you’ve done all the right due diligence and two firms or two opportunities stack up next to each other perfectly, they both will allow you to move the needle significantly enough. If they both will allow you to do better for clients and grow faster, and do everything else that’s important to you, then it’s absolutely time to make deal the tiebreaker.

Jason Diamond:

So you threw out five months and talking about 22 meetings, let’s table that. An advisor calls you, Mindy, this morning and says, “Not unhappy, but I’m getting that itch.” Give me the average time it takes them from that first call this morning to the moment they resigned from their firm, and then give me the quickest they could do it if they needed to.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah. Let me start out by saying that those calls we get from advisors come in two different categories. One is, “Yeah, getting the itch. The straw that broke the camel’s back happened yesterday when X happened.” But the other call, the one we mentioned earlier, which is, “I am 90% happy. I am growing exponentially. I get time to coach my kids’ soccer game. I have great quality of life. I have a great team. I’ve been here 30 or 40 years, and life is good. I’m watching more of my colleagues go or I’m feeling more pain,” fill in the blank for whatever that is. “Even though I’m 90% happy and I’m 100% convinced I don’t want to move, that moving is a hassle, I can’t not see the handwriting on the wall and I at least need to get educated.”

So let’s assume that we get one of those calls. The reason I am calling out the difference between the two is because the time it takes to do the due diligence is usually different. If someone is already at the point where they know that they’re unhappy and likely to move, the due diligence process usually runs quicker. The due diligence process for somebody that’s mostly happy and just beginning to get curious, sort of the latter example, might take a little longer.

Jason Diamond:

Give me some real parameters to it.

Mindy Diamond:

Well, I’d love to hear what you think. What’s swirling in my head, it’s all over the map, but I’m going to say typically six months.

Jason Diamond:

Six months was the number I was about to throw out as well. And I think the quickest you want to do this is three months. Anything beyond that starts to be basically a fire drill. We’ve done deals quicker than that obviously, an advisor’s going to or has been terminated. But I think six months in earnest is a good, healthy timeline. Especially, by the way, because a lot of firms are busy, we’re hearing this from a lot of the firm side of things these days. Depending upon what firm you’re moving to, you need to make sure that the firm can handle you. You want to get their A team upon your breakaway and your transition, no matter what firm that is.

Mindy Diamond:

Do you think, Jason, that it’s six months from, “Gee, I’m a little curious. I want to start to look. I want to begin to do due diligence. What does that look like?”, to, “My butt is in a new seat”?

Jason Diamond:

No. Because I think in the example where you’re just like, “Eh, I’m a little unhappy,” those early innings conversations typically play out slowly because the guy who’s 90% happy is in no rush to say, “Set me up with a bunch of firms, and let’s talk about it.” In those instances, it could take a year and a half because I think what happens really there is then there’s a catalyst event that takes them from your category two to category one. Right? They went from a little unhappy, just curious, to the straw that broke the camel’s back. And that’s when then they shift into the more… or they say the firm has… A good example, UBS, upset a lot of advisors with the compensation plan. They recently walked back a lot of those changes. I’m certain there will be some advisors who say, “This is a nod to attrition. I’ve seen from management what I need to see, and I’m going to stay put.” Equally, probably plenty of advisors who say, “It’s too little too late.”

Mindy Diamond:

Let me say something, and again, not to make this episode at all about this team in Atlanta, but that was a ten-year conversation for us. Literally, 10 years ago, maybe even 12 years ago, but let’s say 10, one of the senior partners on the team had called to say, “Curious, really happy, doing incredibly well. Zero chance we are moving in the next year or two or five.” But look, what don’t we know? And every year, we would then have a conversation about what the landscape looked like. But I’m going to say it was six years ago when the conversation shifted from, “Really happy, convinced we’re staying,” to, “starting to think we might leave at some point,” but another six years until this really happened. Now, that’s a good example because they were going independent. The transition itself probably took a year, year and a half.

Jason Diamond:

And the size and complexity of the team, by the way, probably amplifies that as well.

Mindy Diamond:

Well, there are outliers on either side, and that’s the point I wanted to make. Correct.

Jason Diamond:

Very fair. I’m glad you bring that up because there’s no cookie-cutter answer. It totally depends on the makeup of the business, where you’re going, how you’re going, when you’re going. I think we have time for two more questions, and I want to make sure we get to this because we’ve talked about this through the lens of the advisor and the advisor’s team. We haven’t talked much about the client experience, and that is clearly self-portability, in general, is something that gives advisors anxiety rightfully so. I think if you could tell a lot of advisors with 100% certainty that their book would move, I think many more would be interested in moving. I think concerns about portability, a lot of times, would keep advisors in seats. I guess what I’m getting at is because that initial client conversation is so important, is there anything you coach advisors to think about or to say to clients or potential clients as they consider a change, a transition?

Mindy Diamond:

Well, you have to be mindful certainly of your own employment agreement and legal considerations of pre-soliciting-

Jason Diamond:

Important point.

Mindy Diamond:

No way are any of us advocating for pre-solicitation. But you do have to have a pretty good sense in your mind without asking the client specifically, who is likely to come and who not. And the determination, the sort of hypothesis or the supposition, of who will come and who will not has everything to do with where you’re going and the value proposition, “Will I be able to make a compelling enough point? Will I have compelling enough reasons where it’s not about me, the advisor, it’s about you, the clients, about how I will better be able to service them? And if I’m able to say to a client, ‘If I make a move or I’m making this move and I’m now going to be able to do X, Y, and Z for you,’ I’m much more confident that they will be able to come?”

In the case of this OpenArc deal, the Atlanta team, they did a lot of retirement plan business, so they had to be really concerned about how they were going to position this move and the new brand separating from Merrill brand, how they were going to convince their Fortune 500 clients that this was the right move. So it always has to start with what’s best for clients and how will I pitch it, if you will.

Jason Diamond:

I love how you answered that because it’s like two different answers to me. Part one is handicapping the portability, and that’s pre-transition during the due diligence process. Honestly, if you’re an advisor, you could do that now, right? If I were to make a move, “Here’s my client who I know with 100% certainty would follow me. Here’s the maybes, here’s the no,” you come up with a weighted average portability metric. I totally agree with you on that. And then the second piece of it is you have to be constantly thinking this option might sound the best to you, but remember, and I agree, not pre-solicit, but post-transition, you’re going to have to sell it to your clients. So you need to be thinking about every conversation you have with every firm through that lens. Do you agree with that? Meaning I’m going to move my business from UBS to Morgan Stanley. You get paid a big check, but can you articulate the clients-

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah, 1000%. It’s such a good point because, and we’re going to give you some inside baseball here, the number one question that any advisor who is in traffic with any firm or any model needs to ask is, put words in my mouth, “If we were fast forwarding to the day I made a move and joined your firm or joined your model, help me to understand what would the pitch to my clients sound like.” And then, you need to sort of absorb that pitch from the perspective of your clients. Put yourself in the shoes of your oldest clients, of your youngest clients, of your most important clients, of your middle-of-the-road clients, of your middle net worth clients, of the institutional clients, fill in the blank, “Does that value proposition fit?” That is one of the best ways to assess whether a firm or an opportunity is better enough or good enough for you.

Jason Diamond:

It’s such a good answer, and I love the inside baseball look there. Also, by the way, it has this side benefit of you’re forcing the managers or the recruiters to articulate almost like a succinct value prop on their firm. Right? Tell me, hypothetically, what would I say to clients about, and you’re just picking on Morgan, “Why is Morgan Stanley better than my current firm?” And that answer ought to be compelling.

In closing, I want to wrap this up with a question around the difficulty of a move. You’ve been in this business now 30 years, I think it’s almost exactly 30 years. Has it gotten easier logistically to transition? And do you see that trend continuing, let’s say, because of partially things like AI, DocuSign and the like? What are your thoughts on the nuts and bolts of transitioning?

Mindy Diamond:

There’s no question it’s gotten easier. There’s no question that, from a legal perspective, the advent of broker protocol certainly makes it less scary or less risky to make a move. But there are plenty of moves that are made as a non-protocol move, and that’s not always the case. And the ecosystem, I should say, has gotten better to support the advisor in transition. Legal counsel, all they do all day long is facilitate these moves. Third-party consultancies, people like us that have been at it 30 years and have seen it all, and all the mistakes have already been made, we know how to do it. But with that said, moving is a hassle. No matter how much better the support system has gotten, no matter how many times a manager or a firm has transitioned advisors, it is a hassle to move. It is disruptive. It is a lot.

And again, this statement is not going to win me a place in the headhunter hall of fame, but you should absolutely not consider a move unless you have the appetite for some risk, for some breakage, meaning some loss of clients, and you’re willing to shrink to grow, and you’ve got an appetite for some hassle factor to work perhaps harder for a short period of time than you have in a while. If you don’t have that, then no matter how unhappy you are, you really need to seriously consider whether moving is the best way to solve your problems.

Jason Diamond:

Yeah. It’s a really great way to tie a bow on this episode. It was a lot of fun. I’m excited. I think that would be 2037 based on your 12-year timeline. So the next $129-billion team, we’ll have to schedule that episode out for 10 or 12 years from now. But Mindy, thank you so much for sharing your years of wisdom and expertise with us. This was a fantastic episode. I had a lot of fun.

Mindy Diamond:

Yeah, I loved it too. Thank you, my pleasure.

Jason Diamond:

Thank you for joining us. We’ll be back with a new episode next week, so be sure to listen in.

Mindy Diamond:

As a financial advisor, you hold yourself to the highest standards of integrity, honesty, and credibility. You are successful because you take your professional responsibility seriously and are dedicated to your clients. But are you living your best business life? Are your goals aligned with your firms, or could a better option exist? Should I Stay or Should I Go? is a book written with you in mind. It’s a self-guided journey that walks you through the key steps that we take with our advisor clients. This strategic thought process and road map to professional self-discovery is designed to help you ask the right questions and think critically and objectively, whether you’re considering change or not. Learn how to get your copy at diamond-consultants.com/thebook.

View Details

With Rafael Loureiro, Co-Founder & Chief Executive Officer, Wealth.comRafael Loureiro on why estate planning is shifting from a static legal exercise to an AI-powered, advisor-led planning process.In SummaryEstate planning has traditionally operated outside the core advisor workflow—handled through attorneys, revisited infrequently, and often disconnected from the broader client relationship.

Louis speaks with Rafael Loureiro, Co-Founder and CEO of Wealth.com, about how AI is beginning to change that model. The conversation explores how advisors can use tools like Ester to surface planning gaps, stay ahead of client changes, and deliver a more continuous planning experience.

For advisors, the broader implication is strategic: as investment management becomes increasingly commoditized, integrated planning and ongoing coordination may become a far more meaningful differentiator.

The StorylineMost advisors already discuss estate planning with clients. The challenge is what happens next.

In many cases, the process still moves outside the advisor relationship: clients are referred to an attorney, documents are created, and the estate plan becomes something revisited only after a major life event or liquidity event forces an update.

Louis and Rafael explore why that structure is starting to break down.

Rafael’s own estate planning experience following the sale of Emailage to LexisNexis exposed how fragmented the process could feel, even for highly engaged clients working with sophisticated advisors. That experience ultimately became the foundation for Wealth.com and its AI-powered planning platform, Ester.

The discussion focuses less on AI as a headline topic and more on how it changes advisor workflow in practice—from document interpretation and planning summaries to surfacing next actions and helping advisors stay proactively engaged as client circumstances evolve.

For advisors thinking about the future of planning, the conversation raises a larger question: if financial planning itself becomes increasingly standardized, where does the next layer of differentiation come from?

Topics Covered* Continuous estate planning * AI-powered advisor workflows * com and Ester * Advisor-led estate planning * Family office-style client service * Trust and estate attorney collaboration * Estate planning for mass affluent clients * AI agents in wealth management * Dynasty Financial Partners integration * Advisor differentiation beyond investment management

> Download a transcript of this episode…

Listen and Learn Highlights for AdvisorsWhy did Rafael decide to build Wealth.com? (06:04)

Rafael explains how his own estate planning experience after a liquidity event exposed major disconnects between advisors, attorneys, and clients.

Why did Wealth.com choose an advisor-led model instead of direct-to-consumer? (14:28)

The platform was designed around the belief that advisors (not marketing campaigns) are best positioned to initiate estate planning conversations with clients.

What does “continuous estate planning” actually mean? (20:13)

Rafael describes a system where client life changes, tax events, and asset activity can trigger proactive advisor engagement rather than periodic document reviews.

How does Ester move beyond document summarization? (32:30)

The platform now identifies planning opportunities, prepares tasks and reports, and increasingly helps advisors automate portions of the planning workflow.

Why are enterprise firms and large banks adopting platforms like Wealth.com? (24:57)

Many firms were already producing estate planning summaries manually for ultra-high-net-worth clients. AI allows those capabilities to scale much more efficiently.

How should advisors think about the role of trust and estate attorneys going forward? (26:50)

Rafael argues that AI enhances – not replaces – the attorney relationship by improving efficiency and reserving more sophisticated matters for specialized legal expertise.

What may differentiate advisory firms as planning becomes more commoditized? (38:02)

The discussion points toward responsiveness, coordination, personalization, and deeper client integration as the next major competitive layer for advisors.

Key Takeaways* Rafael believes estate planning is shifting from a one-time legal exercise to a continuous planning process supported by AI and advisor engagement. * Wealth.com was intentionally built as an advisor-first platform rather than a direct-to-consumer business. * Ester’s AI capabilities now extend beyond summarization into identifying planning gaps, surfacing opportunities, and preparing advisor workflows. * Many firms are using estate planning as a way to deepen relationships and expand into more family-office-style service models. * AI may allow advisors to serve more clients while maintaining a higher level of personalization and responsiveness. * Trust and estate attorneys remain critical for complex situations, but AI can improve efficiency and help clients arrive better prepared. * Advisors who fail to expand beyond investment management risk competing in an increasingly commoditized landscape.

https://youtu.be/BDI6XbEz_4E

Quotable Moments“When AI moves from simply organizing information to helping drive decisions, estate planning stops being a periodic task.”

“Investment management is becoming table stakes. Financial planning is becoming table stakes.”

“Why does it have to be that way? Now with AI, why can we not have continuous estate planning?”

“It is the intangibles.”

“My goal is to empower the advisor.”

Related ResourcesHuman Intelligence in the Age of AI: Why Recruiters Still Matter
Artificial intelligence can analyze firms and deals. It can’t replace the insight and advocacy that help advisors make the right move.

The Future of Prospecting: How AI Is Powering the Next Era of Advisor Growth
FINNY Co-Founder Eden Ovadia shares how AI is transforming advisor prospecting: automating outreach, matching advisors with ideal clients, and freeing time for deeper human connection. A forward-looking conversation on what growth will look like in the next era of wealth management.

Rafael LoureiroCo-Founder and CEORafael Loureiro is a technology entrepreneur and product-focused executive with more than 20 years of experience across startups, growth-stage companies, and Fortune 500 organizations. He is Co-Founder and CEO of Wealth.com, a leading estate and tax planning platform powered by proprietary AI and purpose-built for financial institutions. Under his leadership, Wealth.com has expanded into a comprehensive planning platform, embedding deterministic AI to deliver precise, auditable outcomes across estate and tax workflows.

Prior to founding Wealth.com, Rafael served as Chief Technology Officer at Emailage, a global fraud prevention SaaS company acquired by RELX in 2020. He is a member of the Forbes Finance Council and has been recognized across the industry, including CEO of the Year honors and Forbes’ Top AI Founders to Watch.

Originally from France and raised in Brazil, Rafael now resides with his family in the Phoenix metro area.

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

View the transcript of this episode…
Why AI Matters Now: Filling the Estate Planning Gap with Wealth.com

A conversation with Louis Diamond and Rafael Loureiro, Co-Founder & Chief Executive Officer at Wealth.com.

Louis Diamond:

Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is Why AI Matters Now: Filling the Estate Planning Gap with Wealth.com. It’s a conversation with Rafael Loureiro, the firm’s Co-Founder & Chief Executive Officer. I’m Louis Diamond and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors.

Mindy Diamond:

At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wire house, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned, and each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education driven and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at 908-879-1002.

Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual Advisor Transition Report. It’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport.

Louis Diamond:

In the wealth management world, estate planning has largely lived in a separate lane. It’s a topic advisors may raise with clients then hand off to an attorney and eventually a set of documents come back, filed away, rarely revisited, and often disconnected from the rest of the planning process. That structure has been in place for a long time and for the most part, it’s gotten unquestioned, but when you step back, it creates a gap between what do clients expect from their advisor and what actually gets delivered when it comes to estate planning.

Rafael Loureiro, co-founder and CEO of Wealth.com, ran straight into the gap after a planning event of his own which should have been a coordinated process, felt fragmented, manual, and surprisingly opaque. And likewise, I recall the same type of disjointed experience in my own estate planning process. It’s experiences like these that became the starting point for building Wealth.com.

What makes this story interesting isn’t just that they’re using AI but how they’re using it inside the estate planning process, and it’s how AI allows the model itself to change from a one-time legal event to something that evolves alongside the client, from static documents to a system that can actually interpret, update, and surface what matters, from a disconnected handoff to something the advisor can actively lead.

In my conversation with Rafael, we get into how that plays out in practice, how tools like Ester move from summarizing estate documents to identifying gaps, to prompting next steps, and eventually preparing action on behalf of the advisor, because when AI moves from simply organizing information to helping drive decisions, estate planning stops being a periodic task and starts to look more like a continuous part of the advice process. So let’s dive in. Rafael, thank you for coming on our show today.

Rafael Loureiro:

My pleasure, Louis. Thank you for having me here.

Louis Diamond:

Of course. Let’s jump in and in researching you and speaking to you in the past, I got to admit, you had a very different path into the wealth management industry probably than anyone I’ve ever interviewed. So can you walk us through your background briefly and early professional endeavors?

Rafael Loureiro:

Absolutely. The accent that you hear is Brazilian. So I’ve been in the US for 25 years. I’m a software engineer by trade, came here as a HMB, been involved with different companies over the years and then most recently before Wealth.com. I was a chief technology officer with a fraud prevention company, nothing to do with wealth management, but by selling that company, it’s how the Wealth.com story started.

Louis Diamond:

Perfect. And I was referring to also some of your early career endeavors even before founding your last company, if you’re comfortable sharing that.

Rafael Loureiro:

Yeah, absolutely. I’ve been involved with four different startups in different spaces. One of them was in, if you remember all the way back to 2008, the real estate prices, the first startup with foreclosures. So when houses went into foreclosures, me and my partner, we created a system to index that. I also had work on a photo album company. It became a lifetime business. It’s still running. I was the CTO and I did my share of consulting. I used to work for Accenture, Avanade, and then a home builder Fortune 500 companies. So I have a ton of experience in the technology space before Wealth.com.

Louis Diamond:

Perfect. And you mentioned the last business that you started that I believe sold to LexisNexis. Can you walk through what that business was?

Rafael Loureiro:

Yeah. So I did not start the business. I joined the business before Series A. The person that started the business, Rei Carvalho, he’s actually Wealth.com chairman. So the team is still together. The US, San Francisco, New York, offices in Sydney, Singapore, London. We serve clients like Coinbase, grew very fast and then got acquired by LexisNexis in 2020 during peak COVID. Think about, we literally signed the documents, popped the champagne on March 2020. No vaccine.

Louis Diamond:

Oh, my God.

Rafael Loureiro:

We literally popped the champagne and we all went back home to work from home because that was the guy that’s from LexisNexis. Through that experience, selling a company, one thing you usually do, it’s a big liquidity event and estate planning is always related to big moments. You get married, someone in your family die, you have a new kid, you have a liquidated event.

So I work with a financial advisor. They’re amazing. They helped me with financial planning, wealth management, saved me a lot of money insurance. But when it was time to do the estate planning, Louis, my experience was, “Hey, Rafael, we always work with this lawyer, go talk to the lawyer.” And then it was a completely broken process. First, because it was COVID and I had to go see the lawyer face-to-face. That was weird right there. Second, because I was expecting the lawyer to know everything about me because my advisor knows everything about me, know about my life situation, know about liquid event, know about my kids, rental houses, everything and then the engineer.

I know what I told the lawyer, but do I know for sure that everything I told the lawyer end up in the document? No, I don’t. Long story short, otherwise it is a long story, we’re having a virtual coffee. I don’t know if you remember everyone, big beard, long hair, everyone working from home, and then somehow all the Emailage C-level team and founders, the co-founders, we start complaining about state plan. Even another example, my chairman, the Wealth.com chairman, Emailage CEO, Rei Carvalho, he was like, “Hey, Rafael, I’m done with the summer heat in Arizona. I’m moving to Denver. I’m going for cooler weathers.”

Literally the moment he moved to Denver, he gets a call from his estate planning lawyer, welcome him to Denver and saying, “Hey, we need to update your documents. “But I just spent thousands of dollars creating my documents.” “Yeah, but you live in a new state, you have to optimize your documents.” At that moment, Louis, we’re like, “Where there’s a problem, there is an opportunity,” and the company was born.

Louis Diamond:

I find the best company origin stories, it’s you have that, you have a personal experience or a moment where you have a realization that there’s a problem that you have that others might have as well, so let’s create a business around solving this problem. It was legitimately at that point, it wasn’t a long burn, we’re going to research, we’re really going to think about this, it was just all of the core team that was fortunate enough to have a big liquidity event were complaining and commiserating about a similar problem on estate planning and then that launched into, let’s build a company, let’s build a platform, a product to solve this problem?

Rafael Loureiro:

Yes and no. We saw the opportunity. We had just finished selling a company. It takes a lot from you and your family to create a company and to sell a company. Before we started a new company, we said, “Hey, look, we feel like there is something here, but let’s do the proper groundwork, make sure that the market is right, that there is a need that it’s not only us complaining about these.” I’m going to say that we spend a good three month, we have vision document together, doing a market research and then we got excited.

Literally my wife who was not super excited in the beginning said, “You guys just sold a company. You’ve been racing 100 miles an hour for the last seven, eight years and you guys going to do this again.” But I love it. It’s part of my DNA. I love the challenge. I love to build and it is a big problem. When you look at the US market, 67% of the population don’t have estate planning. You have to ask yourself, why? Is that because it costs too much money? Is that because people don’t know enough about estate planning that they don’t do it? Is that because people don’t have to think about that?

So the opportunity is there. We did the groundwork. We got the team together, at least some of our eight players. We went to Altus Capital, that’s the same venture firm that led the Emailage series B and we said, “Look, we have a vision, we have a team and we believe the market is ready for it. There is no dominant player and it is blue ocean.” And then they gave us the initial funding, them and my chairman, and then we went from having an idea to launching the product in May 2022.

Louis Diamond:

Wow, that’s amazing. Before we dive into the rapid growth and what the platform looks like, et cetera, can you just give us a quick overview of what Wealth.com looks like today? Who are you serving? Who are you selling to and where does it fit into an advisor’s value proposition or their advice stack, if you will?

Rafael Loureiro:

Absolutely. So Wealth.com we empower financial advisors to provide a family office experience to their clients starting with estate planning and tax planning. What I’m trying to solve, Louis, is my situation. I want my financial advisor to be the hub of my needs. So if the need is financial planning, wealth management, insurance, estate planning, tax planning, I need my financial advisor to be aware of all these verticals, right? Because I know if something happens to one of us, my financial advisor is my person. He or she’s going to get my call from my wife and say, “Hey, am I all right?” I want to empower the financial advisor with all the tools to provide that family office experience to their client.

So that’s first, we started by providing doc migration. So think of this, you are mass affluent client, between half a million dollars all the way to 10 million dollars. You don’t have your revocable trust, your will, your power of attorney, your advanced healthcare directive, your guardianship documents. We do that. We create those documents. You go to the workflow on the Wealth.com platform if you have an advisor, I need to make that clear, we’re not direct to consumer business. You have to have an advisor. So you go to that workflow and at the end of the workflow, you get the documents.

Those are legally optimized, all the documents. The document you get in California is going to be completely different from the document you get in New York, from the document you get in Florida. I just want to make that point clear. What we noticed, Louis, working with these advisors is if you look at the average advisor, if you look at his or her book of business, 80% is mass affluent. So think lawyers, doctors, firemen, 20% high net worth. Usually the high net worth clients, ultra-high network clients, they already have the documents. They already paid $20,000 to have those documents draft and we were not doing anything for them.

So in 2022, we had that light bulb moment even before LLMs. OpenAI launched in 2022, we actually used the Bertha model before OpenAI, but I know I’m digressing. Let me get back here. So I was not doing anything for these high net worth, ultra-high net worth clients. So we had this idea, what if we use AI to read their existing plans, all their grants, LATs, all this sophisticated irrevocable trust, connect to all their assets and then provide a summary of everything they have in place? So that was the idea in 2022. Can we do it? And we did it and that became Ester and that became our family office experience.

So just to summarize, we help the advisor clients regardless where they fall in the wealthy spectrum. They don’t have the estate planning documents, we create them. If they already have the estate planning documents, we use AI to read this documents, summarize them and provide insight and observations. “Hey, here are ways that you can optimize these documents.” That’s what we do.

Louis Diamond:

It’s so valuable. I wish I met you a month ago because I went through a very expensive estate planning exercise with an estate planning attorney and my own personal experience is exactly the same that you had. It’s expensive. I have no idea what I was signing. It was a long questionnaire and it wasn’t driven necessarily by my advisor. They gave me the idea to get updated estate plans, but it was a disconnected process. So this makes a ton of sense.

I think let’s pull on the thread of being a direct to advisor company rather than trying to pull an end around the advisor and going directly to a consumer. Why was that an important design decision for you? Because I would assume the total adjustable market might be a little bit bigger if you’re going direct to a retail client that may or may not have an advisor versus going directly to a business, an RIA, a wealth management firm, et cetera.

Rafael Loureiro:

Yeah. What we notice working within these spaces, something triggers you to do your estate planning. I’m not going to ask why you decide to do yours now, but usually it’s related to death in the family, a kid going to college, you buy a new house, you have a new baby, you’re getting married, you get a divorce. Direct to consumer, you have to find the client at that moment for them to consider estate planning as an important thing to do.

There’s actually surveys. I think Fidelity put a survey out, that says family is the main reason why people do estate planning. And the second reason is the advisor. So if you work with a financial advisor, most likely he or she’s going to make you do your estate planning. So we did not want to be on the direct to consumer place spending millions and millions of dollars in marketing. We’d rather spend millions and millions of dollars in AI and technology and serve the advisor and empower the advisor to have this conversation and go to you and say, “Hey, Louis, how is it possible that you don’t have your estate planning document? Let’s do this now.”

And I know this is uncomfortable. There’s another survey that came out recently saying that some of the advisors don’t want to talk about that. It’s still a hard subject to approach, but we have to have this conversation.

Louis Diamond:

I would say it almost sounds like an advisor not wanting to talk about their fees. Let’s not talk about that because it’s uncomfortable and no one wants to hear about it.

Rafael Loureiro:

Oh, you have to have it because they saw a huge lack of education. For example, one thing that we come across all the time, and I know it’s minor, is kids going to college. “Oh yeah, my daughter’s going to college. I don’t have to do anything.” Yeah, you do. She needs an advanced healthcare directive because if you don’t have one and something happens to her, you cannot just go to the hospital and ask for information. They won’t give it to you. We need to educate our clients. We need to do a better job. And I think advisors play that role and we want to empower them to talk about estate planning and tax planning.

Louis Diamond:

It makes sense. It’s a brilliant strategy because instead of advisors selling against Wealth.com as like, “I can do better and I have a estate planning guy I can refer you to,” it’s you’re working alongside them and you rely upon the advisor to provide the education to be the trigger moment.

And I know again, from personal experience, if my advisor didn’t suggest that I should update my estate planning documents because I moved states, I wouldn’t have done it. It’s not like a fun thing to do. It’s an expense, et cetera. So that makes a ton of sense. You’re partnering with the hub or the influencers, if you will, of who’s driving estate planning in this country. It’s a great strategy.

Rafael Loureiro:

And you said something very important and I want to highlight, the world is very different after COVID. Before COVID, some of these advisors, all their clients were in the same city. I had one estate planning lawyer to help my clients, right? But now with after COVID or during COVID, people moved. “Oh yeah, I’m not living in a farm. Oh, I moved to Montana. Montana is beautiful. I saw Landman or Yellowstone. Now I’m leaving Montana. Landman is in Texas.”

How? Now you don’t have estate planning lawyer in Texas. You don’t have estate planning lawyer in Montana. With the right partnership with Wealth.com, now you can serve all your clients regardless where they are in the US because we are present in every jurisdiction and we have lawyers in every jurisdiction. So we empower you to serve clients regardless where they are in the US.

Louis Diamond:

Very cool. And how about the pricing model? You don’t have to say what it costs, but is it one license that a firm is buying on behalf of their entire client base or is there an incremental cost for each client? And I’m throwing a lot at you. And then third part of the question is, are you seeing advisors charge directly for the Wealth.com estate planning output or are folks wrapping it into their fee as just a value added service as part of their planning and comprehensive wealth management process?

Rafael Loureiro:

Very good question. My goal, our goal, has always been we want to make estate planning available, democratized estate planning, make it more accessible to the population. So the way we charge is we charge the advisor annual recurring fee. We do not charge per document. I want you to provide estate planning to all your clients. That’s our goal. I don’t want you to think, oh, but that’s going to cost me money. No, all your clients set them all up with estate planning.

Are they charging? It depends. So the way I’m going to say this is, I’m going to say that 60% of my advisors are charging not for the documents because they’re not lawyers, they’re charging to help educate you on estate planning. You as a client, you have to go to the process yourself to get the documents. So that’s where an advisor would send an invitation to Wealth.com. You and your wife or your partner, you’re going to go to the workflow and you’re going to get the document at the end.

But the advisor is going to set up a call with you, the advisor is going to help you collect the documents. The advisor is going to educate you why estate planning is important. And some of them are charging for this. Some of our advisors, more on the high net worth, alternate high net worth space, you already charge a very good fee to provide your service so they probably provide Ester output, I should say, as a value added service. It depends on the use case.

Louis Diamond:

Makes sense. So I’ve heard you talk in interviews about a major gap in estate planning between client expectations and what a client is expecting, hoping to get with estate planning, especially when it comes to interacting with their financial advisor and what is actually fundamentally delivered by advisors. So I’m curious, why is there a gap and why do you think that gap has existed for so long? Is it as simple as people don’t like talking about death and it’s expensive or is there a deeper answer?

Rafael Loureiro:

I think it’s all of the above and your experience is amazing. You pretty much, you are the typical client. You took long to do it. It costs you a lot of money. You’re now like, next time you have to do an update, you’re going to wait five to 10 years to do it because we spend thousands of dollars to get it updated. Why does it have to be like that? And now with AI, and that’s what I think is going to change a lot in the next five years, is why can we not have continuous estate planning?

What I mean by that is work with your advisor. I have connection to all your assets. I have connection to CRM. I have connection to your bank account. If you give me access, I don’t need password, but you can actually connect all your assets, I have connection to the portfolio management platform. So as you live your life, as you get married, as you buy a property… You finally decide to buy a property in Tahoe, I get these pings and then I can empower your advisors to say, “Hey, go talk to Louis and say, hey, it’s time to update your estate plan.”

Or a rental property outside your home state in California, you need to update your… Or he has just crossed a tax threshold or he just got married or he just had a new beneficiary. My goal is to empower the financial advisor to provide more and more value to this relationship. I’m not trying to replace the financial advisor, but I’m trying to empower him or her to give you more value so him or her becomes more critical for your relationship. Why people haven’t done estate planning I think is a lack of education, is the fear of the cost. “Oh, I have to talk to a lawyer. Oh my gosh, that’s going to cost me $5,000.”

I want to make this easier. I want to make this simple. I want to empower the advisor to demystify estate planning and tax planning, make it more accessible, bring the estate planning more to the middle. What I mean by that is why is this estate planning exclusive to the high net worth, ultra-high net worth? Because in that space, 90% of the people have estate planning, 90% of the people. It’s the fear of the cost, I think, and then people don’t want to think about that.

Louis Diamond:

Yeah. I think that’s exactly right. Yeah. It very much sounds like it’s a win-win. It’s like a next best action type event where you’re giving an advisor on a silver platter a way to add value, which is what I think every advisor wants to do and then it’s a massive value add to the end client. My guess is you don’t have much friction in delivering those sorts of insights to advisors that they can then deliver to their clients.

Rafael Loureiro:

I would say if you’re not doing it, there is a big risk. You’re going to lose your clients to people that are doing it and they are providing the family office experience. Yeah.

Louis Diamond:

Yeah. What about the competitive landscape for Wealth.com, whether it’s other FinTechs that are attempting to do something in the space or even just the legacy advisor, the estate planning attorney in town or an advisor’s preferred T&E attorney. How do you think about the competitive landscape in the trust and estate world today?

Rafael Loureiro:

There are competitors. From day zero when we came in, there were competitors. I don’t see an incumbent. I think now we have became the incumbent. I think there is a segment of the market, just to paint a picture, one third of the advisors are going to retire in the next 10 years. So there is a segment in the market where to your point, they already work with a estate planning lawyer. That’s not a bad thing. They’re like, “Oh yeah, I get leads from this lawyer. My clients are all located in my neighborhood. I don’t need to provide out of state estate planning,” then we’re not going to get there.”

But at the same time, if you look at our growth, we’ve been growing and that’s why we just raised a series B, our growth is out there to prove it, we’ve been tripling the company size every year. There’s a need, there’s a demand. Financial advisors are waking up. They are in a very competitive market. They need to provide more to the clients because I feel like investment management, it is becoming table stakes. Financial planning, it is table stakes.

So what else can I offer my clients? And that’s why you see some advisory firms offering BillPay. I file your taxes. I’ll get your estate planning done. You got to differentiate yourself. We’re seeing the need. If you look at our penetration, we have now 2,000 firms on the platform and the firms go from independent, a small SMB advisor with one or two advisors in the office, all the way to the top three, three out of the top five banks in the US. We are there, right?

Louis Diamond:

Wow. It’s interesting. Let’s talk about that. So on the bank side, it’s typically not a segment that is ripe for technological disruption or external tools like this to come in and make a dent. How are banks and very large platforms thinking about Wealth.com? Is it a similar kind of buying journey or decision that an individual RIA or an individual advisor would make or is it a little bit different?

Rafael Loureiro:

It’s a little bit different. So without mentioning names, these banks, some of these banks that work with high net worth, ultra-high net worth clients, they were providing this summary report that Ester put together, they were, before Esther, but it was taking them 30 to 50 hours. All human labor to put one together, Excel, Visa, PowerPoint, 30 to 50 hours.

Even to these very expensive, very wealthy clients, they were only doing once a year. “Hey, here’s your report.” “Oh yeah, but I just sold the house in St. Barts. Can I get a new update?” “No. Next year you’re going to get the update.” I’m not even kidding. It was serious. So they were doing the work, but it was all labor-intensive. Now with Wealth, a much better output, I should say, it’s take minutes. And instead of only reserving these to the very, very wealthy clients, now they can go downstream and offer this to their mass affluent clients and then high net worth clients.

They’re all seeing the need. They’re all waking up because they were doing the work, but it was all labor-intensive, like I said, all manual before and they want to automate.

Louis Diamond:

Very interesting. I definitely want to spend some time talking about Ester. You mentioned it a few times, but before that, I’d say two very real strategic areas that a firm might take on when it comes to estate planning. The first one is a lot of very successful advisors, they cultivate amazing COI referral relationships with attorneys and usually the attorneys are T&E attorneys for obvious reasons.

Have you gotten pushback or have you seen that because of Wealth.com, these advisors now are referring less business to these high-powered trust and estates attorneys and then they’re not able to grow their business as much in return. That’s one question if you can weigh in.

Rafael Loureiro:

I have not heard that. And just to clarify, I think with Wealth, having Wealth as part of your tool framework, you’re going to be able to serve more clients and still leverage your trust estate attorney. And I’ll explain how. For example, we know how to stay our lane. So let’s say you go into the workflow and as part of the workflow, you say, “Hey, I have a special needs child.” At that moment we say, “Stop. Let me put you in touch with a lawyer.”

You can decide to use your own lawyer or you can use one of in our network. We have lawyers in every jurisdiction, but it’s up to you. We focus on the revocable trusts and the wealth. If your client requires something more sophisticated, you can still use Wealth.com to map out the client’s situation using Ester. You’re going to be able to see everything they have in place at that moment and then use your relationship, your trust and estate lawyer to make the document update.

So I think what we are doing is reserving the most complex case for the trust and estate lawyer if a document needs update, but I don’t think you are breaking that relationship. That relationship will stay there and you’re still going to have that lead exchange, but I don’t have any numbers to answer your question.

Louis Diamond:

I think that makes sense. It’s not like with Wealth.com, at least not yet. It’s not like there isn’t a role for a T&E attorney and especially for more complex esoteric type situations, an advisor could still refer some of their relationships to a T&E attorney, but they’ll come armed with better information. And also with more clients getting involved with estate planning, there’s also conceivably more opportunities that they can refer out to an estate planning attorney in turn.

Rafael Loureiro:

Can I use that? You did a much better job than I did. Exactly. Exactly what you said. The difference is now your advisor, your clients are going to be much better informed, that they know exactly what they need from the lawyer. So yeah, 100%.

Louis Diamond:

Perfect. And then the other one, which is I’d say less commonplace, but it’s a trend. The trend, and you hit on it, that as investments are becoming commoditized or not as differentiated, advisors are being called on to offer more and more services, whether it’s tax preparation in-house or bill pay or picking up clients’ dry cleaning, et cetera. But I think a big area that I’ve seen firms invest in is an in -house trust and estate attorney. Do you think Wealth.com is taking some of the sizzle out of that in-house service or is it just different? Is it two different use cases?

Rafael Loureiro:

It’s two different uses cases and we actually sell to that use case where if you have your trust estate attorneys in-house, we actually leverage them and they become users on the platform. Going back to my previous answer, now with Wealth.com, you’re going to be able to serve more clients with estate planning. You can actually route some of the use cases back to your trust estate team through Wealth.com. They do whatever they have to do and then you’re able to serve more clients.

An example, trust and estate lawyers, they had to read the documents before Wealth.com. They would spend countless hours reading a hundred-page documents. Now with Esther, we do the summarization. We show your trust estate team where all the information was extracted. So instead of reading one document per hour, you’re going to be able to read three documents per hour and visualize the client estate plan and be able to optimize it because we’ve provided insights and suggestions and then the trust and estate lawyer can provide their own and say, “Hey, no, I agree with this one,” or “I think we should also do this.” I think you’re going to optimize the use of your trust estate team. You’re not going to get rid of them. No.

Louis Diamond:

It’s more so you’re automating the high value differentiated work. It also kind of sounds like, I don’t know when eMoney or MoneyGuidePro came into the mainstream, but it’s almost a difference between a paraplanner for a firm, manually creating pie charts in Excel and PowerPoint and analyzing a bunch of stuff and then eMoney and MoneyGuidePro and NaviPlan and all these companies come about and all of a sudden a lot of the work is automated. And it’s not like a paraplanner is out of work. They just become the experts, the users of the platform and they can allocate their attention to higher value, more bespoke work rather than we’ll say more of the factory kind of below the line things that was taking up a lot of their time.

Rafael Loureiro:

Absolutely. I like to use the analogy of the shoemaker. In the past, the shoemaker would make one shoe. It would be a beautiful shoe, but he would make one shoe a week or every two days. Now you have specialized agents. All that agent does is read estate planning documents. All that agent does is enriching the documents with insight and observations and looking to all the legal law changes that happened recently.

So now you’re able to still make the same high quality shoe, but just at a higher volume. And you have a lot of dedicated workers doing one thing and doing one thing extremely well. So my goal is to empower the shoemaker. My goal is to empower the advisor and with a thousand analysts, a thousand paraplanners. So just making my job more efficient.

Louis Diamond:

I love it. You fit in Ester a good bit. It seems fairly clear what Ester’s doing. Sounds like an amazing value add. Just given the pace of AI innovation and I don’t think anyone knows where it’s going, but what are you most excited about Ester being able to do either now or in the future and what’s the vision if you can project out a year, which seems like an eternity in AI time, what’s on the dream board for what Ester’s going to be able to do for your Wealth.com clients?

Rafael Loureiro:

As a technologist, I love this question. I see AI in three distinct phases. You had the first phase of Ester in 2022, 2023 when we launched, which was summaries. It was amazing summarizing data. Some of these clients, Louis, think about this, some of these clients, they have 13 documents in place. They had every type of irrevocable trust you can imagine plus a revocable trust in place. They had very complicated assets, very complex assets. So Ester was amazing in summarizing. That was phase number one.

Phase number two is now being able to augment. You read the data, you see an opportunity and you create a task that’s right there in front of the advisor saying, “Hey, I think you should reach out to this client and include this report with some of these observations. Click this button if you agree.” You still involve the advisor, the human is still in the loop. And that’s what we are with Ester right now. We do that. We assess the data, we see the opportunity, we involve the advisor, advisor get involved and say, “Yes, let’s do this,” and click a button, an email is triggered, our report is attached. Here we go.

The third phase and that’s coming next and very soon is now you have an agent acting on the behalf of the advisor. I still want to make sure, and I want to make this very clear, I don’t want to get myself in trouble, the devices always evolve, but you have all these specific agents, that’s tax planning agent, that’s the estate planning agent, work independently, connected to the world, extremely well-trained with thousands and thousands of documents that we’ve seen over the years, finding opportunities, creating the tasks, creating the emails, creating the report, having everything ready to go, just waiting for the advisor to say, “Do it.”

And we do this enough to the point where the advisor is going to say, “All right, you don’t need my permission anymore to do this specific task. Go.” You connect to the IRS, you download the text transcript, you crunch to this data, you create a report and it’s ready to go. The other thing too is I want to be able, my goal in the next year, a year and a half, is I want to continue estate planning. Up to this point, estate planning has been exactly like you described. You go to a lawyer, you pay thousands and thousands of dollars and those documents start collecting dust in a shelf somewhere while you live your life.

And being from this space, that’s not how it works. There is new legislation being passed OBBA became like you crossed tax threshold, you have liquidated events, you get married, you get divorced, you buy real estate property, so on and so forth and that document is already stale. Why does it have to be that way? Now with AI, now with the technology we have in place, it won’t be. I promise you.

Louis Diamond:

Very cool. That’s exciting. That sounds like the perfect evolution of AI from summary, just here’s something you can read quickly to suggesting action, to then taking action. It does seem like the flow that it’s been and I’m sure there’s 15 other flows from here that we don’t even know yet. Or you probably do because you’re in this, but for me, I can’t even imagine what phase four and five are going to look like for you.

Rafael Loureiro:

Yes, it’s exciting.

Louis Diamond:

Definitely is. I saw, when I was doing some research for this that Wealth.com announced a fairly major strategic partnership with Dynasty Financial Partners, embedding Ester into their Dynasty desktop. What do you think this partnership says about where the business is going and how do you expect advisors to really take advantage of this in practice?

Rafael Loureiro:

It was a new development. We’re super excited about the Dynasty Financial Partnership. Before, if you look at before this partnership, we would have to empower advisor one by one with a Wealth.com license. With this partnership with Dynasty, every advisor in the Dynasty family or using the Dynasty desktop is going to be able to use Ester. So they’re going to be furnished with an AI intelligence that they can ask any estate planning questions, they can get tax planning questions answered.

They’re going to be able to upload their clients’ estate planning documents and get a summary with opportunities, with everything that they can do for those estate planning documents. I think it fits perfectly well for enterprise IRAs, wire houses, this solution. Instead of doing one by one, you can actually have AI for all your advisors at once answering their most basic questions and taking action. That’s literally like the agents I was trying to describe. So that’s just the first step in that direction and we’re super excited about this.

Louis Diamond:

Very cool. Let me ask you another one. So you said earlier that as investment management becomes more commoditized that advisors not only have to offer more services and provide more value, but they also have to differentiate from the advisor or the firm across the street to provide more family office services, if you will.

But let’s say, and this will be great for you, Wealth.com becomes like air that everyone’s breathing. It almost becomes like financial planning tool, e-Money. It’s commonplace. Now it’s commoditized across the space, it’s not a differentiator anymore to offer financial planning. As Wealth.com expands more firms work with the platform, what do you think is the next layer or next level of differentiation that your clients then can point to if it’s no longer maybe a couple of years from now that we use Wealth.com that we help with estate planning?

Rafael Loureiro:

Wow, that’s an interesting one, and approach my wife and bring ideas and suggestions. For me, if I can make that happen where the financial advisor is helping with my taxes, so when it’s tax time, we just have to have a one-hour meeting and we’re ready to click a button and have everything done, that can help me with BillPay. And think about like high net worth and ultra-high net worth people where it becomes extremely complicated to do BillPay properly because you have to pay from the right account, from the right trust. If they can take this off my plate so I can focus 100% in my business and my family, it’s mission accomplished. If that means that they’re going to walk my dog to make this happen, I know I’m exaggerating here, but pick up my laundry like the example you use, I think you’re going to have to do this.

That in my mind is how these financial advisors survive the AI revolution. It is that personal relationship. It’s knowing me well. It’s spending more time with me than once a quarter. And with AI, with the right AI, and I know AI, there’s a lot of smoke in this space and very little fire, but with the right agents, with the right workflows, one advisor is going to be able to serve more than a hundred clients. Because right now the ratio is a hundred clients per advisor, maybe you’re going to be able to serve like 200, 250 well. Serve them well, knowing them well, knowing them personally. I think that’s going to happen in the next couple of years.

Louis Diamond:

I think that’s right. It’s more so like the intangibles that an advisor has. Their secret sauce isn’t going to be necessarily we offer these seven things. It’s going to be, I really get you. I understand you. It’s the advisor’s personal relationship and empathy with that client and all the years that they’ve known them.

And then it’s just using all these different tools to aid that relationship. It kind of sounds like that’s what you’re saying. It’s all the other stuff that advisors do that might be different today, over time, people catch up and that becomes commoditized similar to we offer financial planning and that’s a differentiator. Now it’s, if they don’t offer financial planning, it’s a problem.

Rafael Loureiro:

Yeah, 100%. You got it. Yes, it is the intangibles. That’s perfect.

Louis Diamond:

Okay. I got two more questions for you. What’s one thing you wish more advisors understood about estate planning that they still miss today?

Rafael Loureiro:

I think there is an education component. Just deploying Wealth.com and expecting is going to work with your clients. It’s not like that. You need to be willing to have the conversation like your advisor did it with you. You need to have the tough call and say, “Hey, are you ready? Do you have estate planning in place? Why not?” And then having that conversation.

Louis Diamond:

And I would imagine too, it’s also cool, I got all these documents so instead of it getting locked in the safe or locked in the drawer, it’s also incumbent on the advisor to explain the documents. “Hey, these are a bunch of stuff in here that whatever, we don’t have to get into, but here’s the four key things about this document that you should understand. The power of attorney we’ve nominated is your father-in-law. Your proceeds are going to get distributed one-third to your son, a quarter to your daughter,” et cetera. It’s going to be those things and translating the documents into real words that clients are going to understand.

Rafael Loureiro:

100%. That is critical because I’m a software engineer, I’m not equipped to be reading a hundred pages document and trying to understand everything that’s there without … Now with AI, you can actually ask Claude to summarize and Gemini to summarize it, but that was not the case three years ago. So that education component is critical. And some of my advisors are actually very successful, I should say. A smaller firm in this case, I’m not going to say the names, I don’t have that permission to say their name, but they are actually doing these estate planning webinars as a lead generation.

Because clients are curious about this. Sometimes if you don’t ask them, you’re never going to know, but they’re probably very curious about estate planning. They’re probably very concerned they don’t have the documents in place. Even the ones that have the documents, they’re probably concerned that they need an update and they haven’t done it. So by doing this webinar, they feel more comfortable just going to the event. They know they’re not going to be the center of attention and then asking a question or hear people asking questions. Some of my most successful clients are actually using webinar as a lead generation to explain state planning.

Louis Diamond:

It’s a great idea. It’s like you’re empowering the advisor to talk more about estate planning. It’s no longer this bugaboo that was too complex or not in their swim lane. It’s empowering them to lead with, it sounds like.

Rafael Loureiro:

100%

Louis Diamond:

Amazing. And last question, if you were an ambitious advisor building a new firm from scratch today, what would you tell them to focus on to create a more durable, harder to replicate future-proof business?

Rafael Loureiro:

That’s a great question because the factory floor of a hundred years ago, is no longer work. If you have a chance to start from the beginning, it’s a new world. It’s a new world for companies like ours. Even for companies like ours that are in the bleeding edge of technology, everything is changing with AI. How I organize my teams is changing with AI. So I would say select Wealth.com. No, that’s …

I’m kidding. I’m kidding, but yes, I’ll say select the right tools, use AI properly, it’s no longer a headcount game. I’m not saying you’re not going to need help, you’re going to need help, but make sure the tools are talking to each other because it is a new age. It’s an agent about speed, about being able to offer more service quicker, about increasing the relationship, the intangibles, to your point. It’s no longer once a quarter call to your clients.

So if I had the chance to do everything again, if I had a chance even to start Wealth.com again, it’s different how you organize your team in this age of AI. AI is going to be bigger than the industrial revolution. Trust me, the shockwave is huge. To your point earlier in this call, we’re getting a big jump every month. It’s no longer every year, every month there is something new coming from AI. So if you start your firm again, select the right partners, select the right tools and then hit the ground running.

Louis Diamond:

Perfect. That’s amazing. Rafael, this has been so fun. I learned a ton from you. You just have a way of storytelling and I absolutely love the why behind Wealth.com, the personal experience that probably a lot of listeners have had as the light bulb moment. And instead of just complaining about it, you actually took action and now are creating the future of estate planning, empowering advisors to offer estate planning to their clients, getting more folks in this country set up with trust and estates and wills, et cetera. So I think it’s amazing what you’re doing and I’m very excited to continue to watch your success.

Rafael Loureiro:

Thank you. Thank you for the opportunities and just to do a final plug, estate planning, tax planning, stay tuned. There is more coming.

Louis Diamond:

There we go. Thanks so much.

Rafael Loureiro:

Thank you.

Mindy Diamond:

As a financial advisor, you hold yourself to the highest standards of integrity, honesty, and credibility. You are successful because you take your professional responsibility seriously and are dedicated to your clients. But are you living your best business life? Are your goals aligned with your firms or could a better option exist?

Should I Stay or Should I Go? is a book written with you in mind it’s a self-guided journey that walks you through the key steps that we take with our advisor clients. This strategic thought process and roadmap to professional self-discovery is designed to help you ask the right questions and think critically and objectively, whether you’re considering change or not. Learn how to get your copy at diamond-consultants.com/thebook.

Why AI Matters Now: Filling the Estate Planning Gap with Wealth.com

A conversation with Louis Diamond and Rafael Loureiro, Co-Founder & Chief Executive Officer at Wealth.com.

Louis Diamond:

Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is Why AI Matters Now: Filling the Estate Planning Gap with Wealth.com. It’s a conversation with Rafael Loureiro, the firm’s Co-Founder & Chief Executive Officer. I’m Louis Diamond and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors.

Mindy Diamond:

At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wire house, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned, and each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education driven and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at 908-879-1002.

Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual Advisor Transition Report. It’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport.

Louis Diamond:

In the wealth management world, estate planning has largely lived in a separate lane. It’s a topic advisors may raise with clients then hand off to an attorney and eventually a set of documents come back, filed away, rarely revisited, and often disconnected from the rest of the planning process. That structure has been in place for a long time and for the most part, it’s gotten unquestioned, but when you step back, it creates a gap between what do clients expect from their advisor and what actually gets delivered when it comes to estate planning.

Rafael Loureiro, co-founder and CEO of Wealth.com, ran straight into the gap after a planning event of his own which should have been a coordinated process, felt fragmented, manual, and surprisingly opaque. And likewise, I recall the same type of disjointed experience in my own estate planning process. It’s experiences like these that became the starting point for building Wealth.com.

What makes this story interesting isn’t just that they’re using AI but how they’re using it inside the estate planning process, and it’s how AI allows the model itself to change from a one-time legal event to something that evolves alongside the client, from static documents to a system that can actually interpret, update, and surface what matters, from a disconnected handoff to something the advisor can actively lead.

In my conversation with Rafael, we get into how that plays out in practice, how tools like Ester move from summarizing estate documents to identifying gaps, to prompting next steps, and eventually preparing action on behalf of the advisor, because when AI moves from simply organizing information to helping drive decisions, estate planning stops being a periodic task and starts to look more like a continuous part of the advice process. So let’s dive in. Rafael, thank you for coming on our show today.

Rafael Loureiro:

My pleasure, Louis. Thank you for having me here.

Louis Diamond:

Of course. Let’s jump in and in researching you and speaking to you in the past, I got to admit, you had a very different path into the wealth management industry probably than anyone I’ve ever interviewed. So can you walk us through your background briefly and early professional endeavors?

Rafael Loureiro:

Absolutely. The accent that you hear is Brazilian. So I’ve been in the US for 25 years. I’m a software engineer by trade, came here as a HMB, been involved with different companies over the years and then most recently before Wealth.com. I was a chief technology officer with a fraud prevention company, nothing to do with wealth management, but by selling that company, it’s how the Wealth.com story started.

Louis Diamond:

Perfect. And I was referring to also some of your early career endeavors even before founding your last company, if you’re comfortable sharing that.

Rafael Loureiro:

Yeah, absolutely. I’ve been involved with four different startups in different spaces. One of them was in, if you remember all the way back to 2008, the real estate prices, the first startup with foreclosures. So when houses went into foreclosures, me and my partner, we created a system to index that. I also had work on a photo album company. It became a lifetime business. It’s still running. I was the CTO and I did my share of consulting. I used to work for Accenture, Avanade, and then a home builder Fortune 500 companies. So I have a ton of experience in the technology space before Wealth.com.

Louis Diamond:

Perfect. And you mentioned the last business that you started that I believe sold to LexisNexis. Can you walk through what that business was?

Rafael Loureiro:

Yeah. So I did not start the business. I joined the business before Series A. The person that started the business, Rei Carvalho, he’s actually Wealth.com chairman. So the team is still together. The US, San Francisco, New York, offices in Sydney, Singapore, London. We serve clients like Coinbase, grew very fast and then got acquired by LexisNexis in 2020 during peak COVID. Think about, we literally signed the documents, popped the champagne on March 2020. No vaccine.

Louis Diamond:

Oh, my God.

Rafael Loureiro:

We literally popped the champagne and we all went back home to work from home because that was the guy that’s from LexisNexis. Through that experience, selling a company, one thing you usually do, it’s a big liquidity event and estate planning is always related to big moments. You get married, someone in your family die, you have a new kid, you have a liquidated event.

So I work with a financial advisor. They’re amazing. They helped me with financial planning, wealth management, saved me a lot of money insurance. But when it was time to do the estate planning, Louis, my experience was, “Hey, Rafael, we always work with this lawyer, go talk to the lawyer.” And then it was a completely broken process. First, because it was COVID and I had to go see the lawyer face-to-face. That was weird right there. Second, because I was expecting the lawyer to know everything about me because my advisor knows everything about me, know about my life situation, know about liquid event, know about my kids, rental houses, everything and then the engineer.

I know what I told the lawyer, but do I know for sure that everything I told the lawyer end up in the document? No, I don’t. Long story short, otherwise it is a long story, we’re having a virtual coffee. I don’t know if you remember everyone, big beard, long hair, everyone working from home, and then somehow all the Emailage C-level team and founders, the co-founders, we start complaining about state plan. Even another example, my chairman, the Wealth.com chairman, Emailage CEO, Rei Carvalho, he was like, “Hey, Rafael, I’m done with the summer heat in Arizona. I’m moving to Denver. I’m going for cooler weathers.”

Literally the moment he moved to Denver, he gets a call from his estate planning lawyer, welcome him to Denver and saying, “Hey, we need to update your documents. “But I just spent thousands of dollars creating my documents.” “Yeah, but you live in a new state, you have to optimize your documents.” At that moment, Louis, we’re like, “Where there’s a problem, there is an opportunity,” and the company was born.

Louis Diamond:

I find the best company origin stories, it’s you have that, you have a personal experience or a moment where you have a realization that there’s a problem that you have that others might have as well, so let’s create a business around solving this problem. It was legitimately at that point, it wasn’t a long burn, we’re going to research, we’re really going to think about this, it was just all of the core team that was fortunate enough to have a big liquidity event were complaining and commiserating about a similar problem on estate planning and then that launched into, let’s build a company, let’s build a platform, a product to solve this problem?

Rafael Loureiro:

Yes and no. We saw the opportunity. We had just finished selling a company. It takes a lot from you and your family to create a company and to sell a company. Before we started a new company, we said, “Hey, look, we feel like there is something here, but let’s do the proper groundwork, make sure that the market is right, that there is a need that it’s not only us complaining about these.” I’m going to say that we spend a good three month, we have vision document together, doing a market research and then we got excited.

Literally my wife who was not super excited in the beginning said, “You guys just sold a company. You’ve been racing 100 miles an hour for the last seven, eight years and you guys going to do this again.” But I love it. It’s part of my DNA. I love the challenge. I love to build and it is a big problem. When you look at the US market, 67% of the population don’t have estate planning. You have to ask yourself, why? Is that because it costs too much money? Is that because people don’t know enough about estate planning that they don’t do it? Is that because people don’t have to think about that?

So the opportunity is there. We did the groundwork. We got the team together, at least some of our eight players. We went to Altus Capital, that’s the same venture firm that led the Emailage series B and we said, “Look, we have a vision, we have a team and we believe the market is ready for it. There is no dominant player and it is blue ocean.” And then they gave us the initial funding, them and my chairman, and then we went from having an idea to launching the product in May 2022.

Louis Diamond:

Wow, that’s amazing. Before we dive into the rapid growth and what the platform looks like, et cetera, can you just give us a quick overview of what Wealth.com looks like today? Who are you serving? Who are you selling to and where does it fit into an advisor’s value proposition or their advice stack, if you will?

Rafael Loureiro:

Absolutely. So Wealth.com we empower financial advisors to provide a family office experience to their clients starting with estate planning and tax planning. What I’m trying to solve, Louis, is my situation. I want my financial advisor to be the hub of my needs. So if the need is financial planning, wealth management, insurance, estate planning, tax planning, I need my financial advisor to be aware of all these verticals, right? Because I know if something happens to one of us, my financial advisor is my person. He or she’s going to get my call from my wife and say, “Hey, am I all right?” I want to empower the financial advisor with all the tools to provide that family office experience to their client.

So that’s first, we started by providing doc migration. So think of this, you are mass affluent client, between half a million dollars all the way to 10 million dollars. You don’t have your revocable trust, your will, your power of attorney, your advanced healthcare directive, your guardianship documents. We do that. We create those documents. You go to the workflow on the Wealth.com platform if you have an advisor, I need to make that clear, we’re not direct to consumer business. You have to have an advisor. So you go to that workflow and at the end of the workflow, you get the documents.

Those are legally optimized, all the documents. The document you get in California is going to be completely different from the document you get in New York, from the document you get in Florida. I just want to make that point clear. What we noticed, Louis, working with these advisors is if you look at the average advisor, if you look at his or her book of business, 80% is mass affluent. So think lawyers, doctors, firemen, 20% high net worth. Usually the high net worth clients, ultra-high network clients, they already have the documents. They already paid $20,000 to have those documents draft and we were not doing anything for them.

So in 2022, we had that light bulb moment even before LLMs. OpenAI launched in 2022, we actually used the Bertha model before OpenAI, but I know I’m digressing. Let me get back here. So I was not doing anything for these high net worth, ultra-high net worth clients. So we had this idea, what if we use AI to read their existing plans, all their grants, LATs, all this sophisticated irrevocable trust, connect to all their assets and then provide a summary of everything they have in place? So that was the idea in 2022. Can we do it? And we did it and that became Ester and that became our family office experience.

So just to summarize, we help the advisor clients regardless where they fall in the wealthy spectrum. They don’t have the estate planning documents, we create them. If they already have the estate planning documents, we use AI to read this documents, summarize them and provide insight and observations. “Hey, here are ways that you can optimize these documents.” That’s what we do.

Louis Diamond:

It’s so valuable. I wish I met you a month ago because I went through a very expensive estate planning exercise with an estate planning attorney and my own personal experience is exactly the same that you had. It’s expensive. I have no idea what I was signing. It was a long questionnaire and it wasn’t driven necessarily by my advisor. They gave me the idea to get updated estate plans, but it was a disconnected process. So this makes a ton of sense.

I think let’s pull on the thread of being a direct to advisor company rather than trying to pull an end around the advisor and going directly to a consumer. Why was that an important design decision for you? Because I would assume the total adjustable market might be a little bit bigger if you’re going direct to a retail client that may or may not have an advisor versus going directly to a business, an RIA, a wealth management firm, et cetera.

Rafael Loureiro:

Yeah. What we notice working within these spaces, something triggers you to do your estate planning. I’m not going to ask why you decide to do yours now, but usually it’s related to death in the family, a kid going to college, you buy a new house, you have a new baby, you’re getting married, you get a divorce. Direct to consumer, you have to find the client at that moment for them to consider estate planning as an important thing to do.

There’s actually surveys. I think Fidelity put a survey out, that says family is the main reason why people do estate planning. And the second reason is the advisor. So if you work with a financial advisor, most likely he or she’s going to make you do your estate planning. So we did not want to be on the direct to consumer place spending millions and millions of dollars in marketing. We’d rather spend millions and millions of dollars in AI and technology and serve the advisor and empower the advisor to have this conversation and go to you and say, “Hey, Louis, how is it possible that you don’t have your estate planning document? Let’s do this now.”

And I know this is uncomfortable. There’s another survey that came out recently saying that some of the advisors don’t want to talk about that. It’s still a hard subject to approach, but we have to have this conversation.

Louis Diamond:

I would say it almost sounds like an advisor not wanting to talk about their fees. Let’s not talk about that because it’s uncomfortable and no one wants to hear about it.

Rafael Loureiro:

Oh, you have to have it because they saw a huge lack of education. For example, one thing that we come across all the time, and I know it’s minor, is kids going to college. “Oh yeah, my daughter’s going to college. I don’t have to do anything.” Yeah, you do. She needs an advanced healthcare directive because if you don’t have one and something happens to her, you cannot just go to the hospital and ask for information. They won’t give it to you. We need to educate our clients. We need to do a better job. And I think advisors play that role and we want to empower them to talk about estate planning and tax planning.

Louis Diamond:

It makes sense. It’s a brilliant strategy because instead of advisors selling against Wealth.com as like, “I can do better and I have a estate planning guy I can refer you to,” it’s you’re working alongside them and you rely upon the advisor to provide the education to be the trigger moment.

And I know again, from personal experience, if my advisor didn’t suggest that I should update my estate planning documents because I moved states, I wouldn’t have done it. It’s not like a fun thing to do. It’s an expense, et cetera. So that makes a ton of sense. You’re partnering with the hub or the influencers, if you will, of who’s driving estate planning in this country. It’s a great strategy.

Rafael Loureiro:

And you said something very important and I want to highlight, the world is very different after COVID. Before COVID, some of these advisors, all their clients were in the same city. I had one estate planning lawyer to help my clients, right? But now with after COVID or during COVID, people moved. “Oh yeah, I’m not living in a farm. Oh, I moved to Montana. Montana is beautiful. I saw Landman or Yellowstone. Now I’m leaving Montana. Landman is in Texas.”

How? Now you don’t have estate planning lawyer in Texas. You don’t have estate planning lawyer in Montana. With the right partnership with Wealth.com, now you can serve all your clients regardless where they are in the US because we are present in every jurisdiction and we have lawyers in every jurisdiction. So we empower you to serve clients regardless where they are in the US.

Louis Diamond:

Very cool. And how about the pricing model? You don’t have to say what it costs, but is it one license that a firm is buying on behalf of their entire client base or is there an incremental cost for each client? And I’m throwing a lot at you. And then third part of the question is, are you seeing advisors charge directly for the Wealth.com estate planning output or are folks wrapping it into their fee as just a value added service as part of their planning and comprehensive wealth management process?

Rafael Loureiro:

Very good question. My goal, our goal, has always been we want to make estate planning available, democratized estate planning, make it more accessible to the population. So the way we charge is we charge the advisor annual recurring fee. We do not charge per document. I want you to provide estate planning to all your clients. That’s our goal. I don’t want you to think, oh, but that’s going to cost me money. No, all your clients set them all up with estate planning.

Are they charging? It depends. So the way I’m going to say this is, I’m going to say that 60% of my advisors are charging not for the documents because they’re not lawyers, they’re charging to help educate you on estate planning. You as a client, you have to go to the process yourself to get the documents. So that’s where an advisor would send an invitation to Wealth.com. You and your wife or your partner, you’re going to go to the workflow and you’re going to get the document at the end.

But the advisor is going to set up a call with you, the advisor is going to help you collect the documents. The advisor is going to educate you why estate planning is important. And some of them are charging for this. Some of our advisors, more on the high net worth, alternate high net worth space, you already charge a very good fee to provide your service so they probably provide Ester output, I should say, as a value added service. It depends on the use case.

Louis Diamond:

Makes sense. So I’ve heard you talk in interviews about a major gap in estate planning between client expectations and what a client is expecting, hoping to get with estate planning, especially when it comes to interacting with their financial advisor and what is actually fundamentally delivered by advisors. So I’m curious, why is there a gap and why do you think that gap has existed for so long? Is it as simple as people don’t like talking about death and it’s expensive or is there a deeper answer?

Rafael Loureiro:

I think it’s all of the above and your experience is amazing. You pretty much, you are the typical client. You took long to do it. It costs you a lot of money. You’re now like, next time you have to do an update, you’re going to wait five to 10 years to do it because we spend thousands of dollars to get it updated. Why does it have to be like that? And now with AI, and that’s what I think is going to change a lot in the next five years, is why can we not have continuous estate planning?

What I mean by that is work with your advisor. I have connection to all your assets. I have connection to CRM. I have connection to your bank account. If you give me access, I don’t need password, but you can actually connect all your assets, I have connection to the portfolio management platform. So as you live your life, as you get married, as you buy a property… You finally decide to buy a property in Tahoe, I get these pings and then I can empower your advisors to say, “Hey, go talk to Louis and say, hey, it’s time to update your estate plan.”

Or a rental property outside your home state in California, you need to update your… Or he has just crossed a tax threshold or he just got married or he just had a new beneficiary. My goal is to empower the financial advisor to provide more and more value to this relationship. I’m not trying to replace the financial advisor, but I’m trying to empower him or her to give you more value so him or her becomes more critical for your relationship. Why people haven’t done estate planning I think is a lack of education, is the fear of the cost. “Oh, I have to talk to a lawyer. Oh my gosh, that’s going to cost me $5,000.”

I want to make this easier. I want to make this simple. I want to empower the advisor to demystify estate planning and tax planning, make it more accessible, bring the estate planning more to the middle. What I mean by that is why is this estate planning exclusive to the high net worth, ultra-high net worth? Because in that space, 90% of the people have estate planning, 90% of the people. It’s the fear of the cost, I think, and then people don’t want to think about that.

Louis Diamond:

Yeah. I think that’s exactly right. Yeah. It very much sounds like it’s a win-win. It’s like a next best action type event where you’re giving an advisor on a silver platter a way to add value, which is what I think every advisor wants to do and then it’s a massive value add to the end client. My guess is you don’t have much friction in delivering those sorts of insights to advisors that they can then deliver to their clients.

Rafael Loureiro:

I would say if you’re not doing it, there is a big risk. You’re going to lose your clients to people that are doing it and they are providing the family office experience. Yeah.

Louis Diamond:

Yeah. What about the competitive landscape for Wealth.com, whether it’s other FinTechs that are attempting to do something in the space or even just the legacy advisor, the estate planning attorney in town or an advisor’s preferred T&E attorney. How do you think about the competitive landscape in the trust and estate world today?

Rafael Loureiro:

There are competitors. From day zero when we came in, there were competitors. I don’t see an incumbent. I think now we have became the incumbent. I think there is a segment of the market, just to paint a picture, one third of the advisors are going to retire in the next 10 years. So there is a segment in the market where to your point, they already work with a estate planning lawyer. That’s not a bad thing. They’re like, “Oh yeah, I get leads from this lawyer. My clients are all located in my neighborhood. I don’t need to provide out of state estate planning,” then we’re not going to get there.”

But at the same time, if you look at our growth, we’ve been growing and that’s why we just raised a series B, our growth is out there to prove it, we’ve been tripling the company size every year. There’s a need, there’s a demand. Financial advisors are waking up. They are in a very competitive market. They need to provide more to the clients because I feel like investment management, it is becoming table stakes. Financial planning, it is table stakes.

So what else can I offer my clients? And that’s why you see some advisory firms offering BillPay. I file your taxes. I’ll get your estate planning done. You got to differentiate yourself. We’re seeing the need. If you look at our penetration, we have now 2,000 firms on the platform and the firms go from independent, a small SMB advisor with one or two advisors in the office, all the way to the top three, three out of the top five banks in the US. We are there, right?

Louis Diamond:

Wow. It’s interesting. Let’s talk about that. So on the bank side, it’s typically not a segment that is ripe for technological disruption or external tools like this to come in and make a dent. How are banks and very large platforms thinking about Wealth.com? Is it a similar kind of buying journey or decision that an individual RIA or an individual advisor would make or is it a little bit different?

Rafael Loureiro:

It’s a little bit different. So without mentioning names, these banks, some of these banks that work with high net worth, ultra-high net worth clients, they were providing this summary report that Ester put together, they were, before Esther, but it was taking them 30 to 50 hours. All human labor to put one together, Excel, Visa, PowerPoint, 30 to 50 hours.

Even to these very expensive, very wealthy clients, they were only doing once a year. “Hey, here’s your report.” “Oh yeah, but I just sold the house in St. Barts. Can I get a new update?” “No. Next year you’re going to get the update.” I’m not even kidding. It was serious. So they were doing the work, but it was all labor-intensive. Now with Wealth, a much better output, I should say, it’s take minutes. And instead of only reserving these to the very, very wealthy clients, now they can go downstream and offer this to their mass affluent clients and then high net worth clients.

They’re all seeing the need. They’re all waking up because they were doing the work, but it was all labor-intensive, like I said, all manual before and they want to automate.

Louis Diamond:

Very interesting. I definitely want to spend some time talking about Ester. You mentioned it a few times, but before that, I’d say two very real strategic areas that a firm might take on when it comes to estate planning. The first one is a lot of very successful advisors, they cultivate amazing COI referral relationships with attorneys and usually the attorneys are T&E attorneys for obvious reasons.

Have you gotten pushback or have you seen that because of Wealth.com, these advisors now are referring less business to these high-powered trust and estates attorneys and then they’re not able to grow their business as much in return. That’s one question if you can weigh in.

Rafael Loureiro:

I have not heard that. And just to clarify, I think with Wealth, having Wealth as part of your tool framework, you’re going to be able to serve more clients and still leverage your trust estate attorney. And I’ll explain how. For example, we know how to stay our lane. So let’s say you go into the workflow and as part of the workflow, you say, “Hey, I have a special needs child.” At that moment we say, “Stop. Let me put you in touch with a lawyer.”

You can decide to use your own lawyer or you can use one of in our network. We have lawyers in every jurisdiction, but it’s up to you. We focus on the revocable trusts and the wealth. If your client requires something more sophisticated, you can still use Wealth.com to map out the client’s situation using Ester. You’re going to be able to see everything they have in place at that moment and then use your relationship, your trust and estate lawyer to make the document update.

So I think what we are doing is reserving the most complex case for the trust and estate lawyer if a document needs update, but I don’t think you are breaking that relationship. That relationship will stay there and you’re still going to have that lead exchange, but I don’t have any numbers to answer your question.

Louis Diamond:

I think that makes sense. It’s not like with Wealth.com, at least not yet. It’s not like there isn’t a role for a T&E attorney and especially for more complex esoteric type situations, an advisor could still refer some of their relationships to a T&E attorney, but they’ll come armed with better information. And also with more clients getting involved with estate planning, there’s also conceivably more opportunities that they can refer out to an estate planning attorney in turn.

Rafael Loureiro:

Can I use that? You did a much better job than I did. Exactly. Exactly what you said. The difference is now your advisor, your clients are going to be much better informed, that they know exactly what they need from the lawyer. So yeah, 100%.

Louis Diamond:

Perfect. And then the other one, which is I’d say less commonplace, but it’s a trend. The trend, and you hit on it, that as investments are becoming commoditized or not as differentiated, advisors are being called on to offer more and more services, whether it’s tax preparation in-house or bill pay or picking up clients’ dry cleaning, et cetera. But I think a big area that I’ve seen firms invest in is an in -house trust and estate attorney. Do you think Wealth.com is taking some of the sizzle out of that in-house service or is it just different? Is it two different use cases?

Rafael Loureiro:

It’s two different uses cases and we actually sell to that use case where if you have your trust estate attorneys in-house, we actually leverage them and they become users on the platform. Going back to my previous answer, now with Wealth.com, you’re going to be able to serve more clients with estate planning. You can actually route some of the use cases back to your trust estate team through Wealth.com. They do whatever they have to do and then you’re able to serve more clients.

An example, trust and estate lawyers, they had to read the documents before Wealth.com. They would spend countless hours reading a hundred-page documents. Now with Esther, we do the summarization. We show your trust estate team where all the information was extracted. So instead of reading one document per hour, you’re going to be able to read three documents per hour and visualize the client estate plan and be able to optimize it because we’ve provided insights and suggestions and then the trust and estate lawyer can provide their own and say, “Hey, no, I agree with this one,” or “I think we should also do this.” I think you’re going to optimize the use of your trust estate team. You’re not going to get rid of them. No.

Louis Diamond:

It’s more so you’re automating the high value differentiated work. It also kind of sounds like, I don’t know when eMoney or MoneyGuidePro came into the mainstream, but it’s almost a difference between a paraplanner for a firm, manually creating pie charts in Excel and PowerPoint and analyzing a bunch of stuff and then eMoney and MoneyGuidePro and NaviPlan and all these companies come about and all of a sudden a lot of the work is automated. And it’s not like a paraplanner is out of work. They just become the experts, the users of the platform and they can allocate their attention to higher value, more bespoke work rather than we’ll say more of the factory kind of below the line things that was taking up a lot of their time.

Rafael Loureiro:

Absolutely. I like to use the analogy of the shoemaker. In the past, the shoemaker would make one shoe. It would be a beautiful shoe, but he would make one shoe a week or every two days. Now you have specialized agents. All that agent does is read estate planning documents. All that agent does is enriching the documents with insight and observations and looking to all the legal law changes that happened recently.

So now you’re able to still make the same high quality shoe, but just at a higher volume. And you have a lot of dedicated workers doing one thing and doing one thing extremely well. So my goal is to empower the shoemaker. My goal is to empower the advisor and with a thousand analysts, a thousand paraplanners. So just making my job more efficient.

Louis Diamond:

I love it. You fit in Ester a good bit. It seems fairly clear what Ester’s doing. Sounds like an amazing value add. Just given the pace of AI innovation and I don’t think anyone knows where it’s going, but what are you most excited about Ester being able to do either now or in the future and what’s the vision if you can project out a year, which seems like an eternity in AI time, what’s on the dream board for what Ester’s going to be able to do for your Wealth.com clients?

Rafael Loureiro:

As a technologist, I love this question. I see AI in three distinct phases. You had the first phase of Ester in 2022, 2023 when we launched, which was summaries. It was amazing summarizing data. Some of these clients, Louis, think about this, some of these clients, they have 13 documents in place. They had every type of irrevocable trust you can imagine plus a revocable trust in place. They had very complicated assets, very complex assets. So Ester was amazing in summarizing. That was phase number one.

Phase number two is now being able to augment. You read the data, you see an opportunity and you create a task that’s right there in front of the advisor saying, “Hey, I think you should reach out to this client and include this report with some of these observations. Click this button if you agree.” You still involve the advisor, the human is still in the loop. And that’s what we are with Ester right now. We do that. We assess the data, we see the opportunity, we involve the advisor, advisor get involved and say, “Yes, let’s do this,” and click a button, an email is triggered, our report is attached. Here we go.

The third phase and that’s coming next and very soon is now you have an agent acting on the behalf of the advisor. I still want to make sure, and I want to make this very clear, I don’t want to get myself in trouble, the devices always evolve, but you have all these specific agents, that’s tax planning agent, that’s the estate planning agent, work independently, connected to the world, extremely well-trained with thousands and thousands of documents that we’ve seen over the years, finding opportunities, creating the tasks, creating the emails, creating the report, having everything ready to go, just waiting for the advisor to say, “Do it.”

And we do this enough to the point where the advisor is going to say, “All right, you don’t need my permission anymore to do this specific task. Go.” You connect to the IRS, you download the text transcript, you crunch to this data, you create a report and it’s ready to go. The other thing too is I want to be able, my goal in the next year, a year and a half, is I want to continue estate planning. Up to this point, estate planning has been exactly like you described. You go to a lawyer, you pay thousands and thousands of dollars and those documents start collecting dust in a shelf somewhere while you live your life.

And being from this space, that’s not how it works. There is new legislation being passed OBBA became like you crossed tax threshold, you have liquidated events, you get married, you get divorced, you buy real estate property, so on and so forth and that document is already stale. Why does it have to be that way? Now with AI, now with the technology we have in place, it won’t be. I promise you.

Louis Diamond:

Very cool. That’s exciting. That sounds like the perfect evolution of AI from summary, just here’s something you can read quickly to suggesting action, to then taking action. It does seem like the flow that it’s been and I’m sure there’s 15 other flows from here that we don’t even know yet. Or you probably do because you’re in this, but for me, I can’t even imagine what phase four and five are going to look like for you.

Rafael Loureiro:

Yes, it’s exciting.

Louis Diamond:

Definitely is. I saw, when I was doing some research for this that Wealth.com announced a fairly major strategic partnership with Dynasty Financial Partners, embedding Ester into their Dynasty desktop. What do you think this partnership says about where the business is going and how do you expect advisors to really take advantage of this in practice?

Rafael Loureiro:

It was a new development. We’re super excited about the Dynasty Financial Partnership. Before, if you look at before this partnership, we would have to empower advisor one by one with a Wealth.com license. With this partnership with Dynasty, every advisor in the Dynasty family or using the Dynasty desktop is going to be able to use Ester. So they’re going to be furnished with an AI intelligence that they can ask any estate planning questions, they can get tax planning questions answered.

They’re going to be able to upload their clients’ estate planning documents and get a summary with opportunities, with everything that they can do for those estate planning documents. I think it fits perfectly well for enterprise IRAs, wire houses, this solution. Instead of doing one by one, you can actually have AI for all your advisors at once answering their most basic questions and taking action. That’s literally like the agents I was trying to describe. So that’s just the first step in that direction and we’re super excited about this.

Louis Diamond:

Very cool. Let me ask you another one. So you said earlier that as investment management becomes more commoditized that advisors not only have to offer more services and provide more value, but they also have to differentiate from the advisor or the firm across the street to provide more family office services, if you will.

But let’s say, and this will be great for you, Wealth.com becomes like air that everyone’s breathing. It almost becomes like financial planning tool, e-Money. It’s commonplace. Now it’s commoditized across the space, it’s not a differentiator anymore to offer financial planning. As Wealth.com expands more firms work with the platform, what do you think is the next layer or next level of differentiation that your clients then can point to if it’s no longer maybe a couple of years from now that we use Wealth.com that we help with estate planning?

Rafael Loureiro:

Wow, that’s an interesting one, and approach my wife and bring ideas and suggestions. For me, if I can make that happen where the financial advisor is helping with my taxes, so when it’s tax time, we just have to have a one-hour meeting and we’re ready to click a button and have everything done, that can help me with BillPay. And think about like high net worth and ultra-high net worth people where it becomes extremely complicated to do BillPay properly because you have to pay from the right account, from the right trust. If they can take this off my plate so I can focus 100% in my business and my family, it’s mission accomplished. If that means that they’re going to walk my dog to make this happen, I know I’m exaggerating here, but pick up my laundry like the example you use, I think you’re going to have to do this.

That in my mind is how these financial advisors survive the AI revolution. It is that personal relationship. It’s knowing me well. It’s spending more time with me than once a quarter. And with AI, with the right AI, and I know AI, there’s a lot of smoke in this space and very little fire, but with the right agents, with the right workflows, one advisor is going to be able to serve more than a hundred clients. Because right now the ratio is a hundred clients per advisor, maybe you’re going to be able to serve like 200, 250 well. Serve them well, knowing them well, knowing them personally. I think that’s going to happen in the next couple of years.

Louis Diamond:

I think that’s right. It’s more so like the intangibles that an advisor has. Their secret sauce isn’t going to be necessarily we offer these seven things. It’s going to be, I really get you. I understand you. It’s the advisor’s personal relationship and empathy with that client and all the years that they’ve known them.

And then it’s just using all these different tools to aid that relationship. It kind of sounds like that’s what you’re saying. It’s all the other stuff that advisors do that might be different today, over time, people catch up and that becomes commoditized similar to we offer financial planning and that’s a differentiator. Now it’s, if they don’t offer financial planning, it’s a problem.

Rafael Loureiro:

Yeah, 100%. You got it. Yes, it is the intangibles. That’s perfect.

Louis Diamond:

Okay. I got two more questions for you. What’s one thing you wish more advisors understood about estate planning that they still miss today?

Rafael Loureiro:

I think there is an education component. Just deploying Wealth.com and expecting is going to work with your clients. It’s not like that. You need to be willing to have the conversation like your advisor did it with you. You need to have the tough call and say, “Hey, are you ready? Do you have estate planning in place? Why not?” And then having that conversation.

Louis Diamond:

And I would imagine too, it’s also cool, I got all these documents so instead of it getting locked in the safe or locked in the drawer, it’s also incumbent on the advisor to explain the documents. “Hey, these are a bunch of stuff in here that whatever, we don’t have to get into, but here’s the four key things about this document that you should understand. The power of attorney we’ve nominated is your father-in-law. Your proceeds are going to get distributed one-third to your son, a quarter to your daughter,” et cetera. It’s going to be those things and translating the documents into real words that clients are going to understand.

Rafael Loureiro:

100%. That is critical because I’m a software engineer, I’m not equipped to be reading a hundred pages document and trying to understand everything that’s there without … Now with AI, you can actually ask Claude to summarize and Gemini to summarize it, but that was not the case three years ago. So that education component is critical. And some of my advisors are actually very successful, I should say. A smaller firm in this case, I’m not going to say the names, I don’t have that permission to say their name, but they are actually doing these estate planning webinars as a lead generation.

Because clients are curious about this. Sometimes if you don’t ask them, you’re never going to know, but they’re probably very curious about estate planning. They’re probably very concerned they don’t have the documents in place. Even the ones that have the documents, they’re probably concerned that they need an update and they haven’t done it. So by doing this webinar, they feel more comfortable just going to the event. They know they’re not going to be the center of attention and then asking a question or hear people asking questions. Some of my most successful clients are actually using webinar as a lead generation to explain state planning.

Louis Diamond:

It’s a great idea. It’s like you’re empowering the advisor to talk more about estate planning. It’s no longer this bugaboo that was too complex or not in their swim lane. It’s empowering them to lead with, it sounds like.

Rafael Loureiro:

100%

Louis Diamond:

Amazing. And last question, if you were an ambitious advisor building a new firm from scratch today, what would you tell them to focus on to create a more durable, harder to replicate future-proof business?

Rafael Loureiro:

That’s a great question because the factory floor of a hundred years ago, is no longer work. If you have a chance to start from the beginning, it’s a new world. It’s a new world for companies like ours. Even for companies like ours that are in the bleeding edge of technology, everything is changing with AI. How I organize my teams is changing with AI. So I would say select Wealth.com. No, that’s …

I’m kidding. I’m kidding, but yes, I’ll say select the right tools, use AI properly, it’s no longer a headcount game. I’m not saying you’re not going to need help, you’re going to need help, but make sure the tools are talking to each other because it is a new age. It’s an agent about speed, about being able to offer more service quicker, about increasing the relationship, the intangibles, to your point. It’s no longer once a quarter call to your clients.

So if I had the chance to do everything again, if I had a chance even to start Wealth.com again, it’s different how you organize your team in this age of AI. AI is going to be bigger than the industrial revolution. Trust me, the shockwave is huge. To your point earlier in this call, we’re getting a big jump every month. It’s no longer every year, every month there is something new coming from AI. So if you start your firm again, select the right partners, select the right tools and then hit the ground running.

Louis Diamond:

Perfect. That’s amazing. Rafael, this has been so fun. I learned a ton from you. You just have a way of storytelling and I absolutely love the why behind Wealth.com, the personal experience that probably a lot of listeners have had as the light bulb moment. And instead of just complaining about it, you actually took action and now are creating the future of estate planning, empowering advisors to offer estate planning to their clients, getting more folks in this country set up with trust and estates and wills, et cetera. So I think it’s amazing what you’re doing and I’m very excited to continue to watch your success.

Rafael Loureiro:

Thank you. Thank you for the opportunities and just to do a final plug, estate planning, tax planning, stay tuned. There is more coming.

Louis Diamond:

There we go. Thanks so much.

Rafael Loureiro:

Thank you.

Mindy Diamond:

As a financial advisor, you hold yourself to the highest standards of integrity, honesty, and credibility. You are successful because you take your professional responsibility seriously and are dedicated to your clients. But are you living your best business life? Are your goals aligned with your firms or could a better option exist?

Should I Stay or Should I Go? is a book written with you in mind it’s a self-guided journey that walks you through the key steps that we take with our advisor clients. This strategic thought process and roadmap to professional self-discovery is designed to help you ask the right questions and think critically and objectively, whether you’re considering change or not. Learn how to get your copy at diamond-consultants.com/thebook.

View Details

With Ricky Smith—Founder & Managing Partner, Inspired Wealth PlanningOverviewJason Diamond speaks with Ricky Smith of Inspired Wealth Planning about leaving Edward Jones after 30 years, evaluating 12 firms, and building an independent business that grew to $1.25B in assets under care in less than three years.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

Watch…https://youtu.be/cobAfEl0_To

About this episode…What happens when you stop thinking like a renter and start thinking like an owner?

Not just in theory, but in how you run your business, make decisions, and show up for clients.

For Ricky Smith, that question didn’t come at the beginning of his career. It came 30 years later, after building a highly successful practice at Edward Jones and beginning to see the business through a different lens.

Today, Ricky is the founder and managing partner of Inspired Wealth Planning, the independent firm he built with Kestra Private Wealth Services. Since launching in March 2023, the firm has grown to over $1.25B in assets under its care across seven locations.

What makes this story interesting isn’t just the move—it’s how intentional it was. Ricky didn’t rush into independence. He spent a year evaluating 12 different firms and paths, clarifying what mattered most, and ultimately making a decision based on people and alignment, not just economics.

Ricky shares his journey with Jason Diamond, including:

• His approach to due diligence—and why he dove deeper into the weeds before he was satisfied with his next steps.
• Reconsidering the wirehouse model—and why he felt independence was the best path forward.
• The “ownership mindset”—and how that drives his values and processes.
• The early phase of independence—and why it’s less about growth and more about getting the structure right.
• Growing by 50%—and what “breakthroughs” he had in less than three years.

Ricky offers the perspective that making the leap to independence may be “short-term hard,” but you’re working toward building a business that’s designed to be “long-term easy.”

And there’s another broader idea worth paying attention to: Most advisors don’t lack options; they hesitate to act on them.

Listen in for sage advice from an advisor who has lived in the wirehouse world and is now independent—and has realized the value of ownership.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesDiamond Consultants Edward Jones Advisor Transition Report 2025This “firm-focused report” seeks to look under the hood at movement to and from Edward Jones from January to June of 2025.

The Cost of Clarity: What Advisors Stand to Gain and Lose When Their Firm Shows Its Hand
When firms become explicit about who and what they value, it’s time for advisors to read those signals and respond.

The Advisor Transition Playbook: The Latest on Due Diligence, the Move, and Everything In Between – Part 2
Jason and Mindy Diamond revisit the transition playbook, this time focused on how advisor priorities are shifting. From AI and enterprise value to stability and flexibility, they unpack what’s changing in due diligence and what it means for advisors evaluating their next move.

Ricky Smith
Managing Partner

Ricky Smith is the founder and Managing Partner of Inspired Wealth Planning.

Inspired Wealth Planning is group of like minded veteran financial advisors who serve their clients and local communities across Georgia and now even Ohio.

Before founding Inspired, Ricky worked as a financial advisor for 39 years. Primarily as an employee of a nationwide financial firm. Wanting to have more control over the outcomes for clients, his team and his own career, he left the employee model to join an independent firm – Kestra Private Wealth Services.

After opening the Kestra based office, other advisors inquired about joining Inspired. Within the first 36 months, Inspired grew to 7 locations, 10 advisors, 14 support staff and over $1.2 billion in assets under care.

In February 2026, Inspired was selected as the Outstanding Business of the Year for Kestra Financial (the parent company of Kestra Private Wealth). This was the first time that any firm from Kestra Private Wealth had ever been selected for that award.

In early April the firm was on the cover of Advisor Hub magazine and in mid-April, Ricky was selected for the Forbes/Shook Best in State Wealth Advisors for the state of Georgia. An Honor that he has received 3 times in the past 5 years.

Ricky lives in Cordele Georgia with his wife, Patti and their tuxedo cat Oreo. They have a daughter, Brooke, who lives in Maryland. Ricky has been a loyal member and participant with the local Chamber of Commerce for 42 years, serving as chairman in 1999. He and Patti are long-time members of Cordele First Church and supporters of the local chapter of Celebrate Recovery.

View Details

With Leah Sciabarrasi—President/Managing Partner, Wealth Advisor, Crestwood AdvisorsOverviewJason Diamond speaks with Leah Sciabarrasi of Crestwood Advisors on building an $8B firm from inception, including how her role evolved, how leadership alignment shapes scale, and how sustained growth is achieved without disrupting the client experience.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

Watch…https://youtu.be/DhYu0AYJUcY

About this episode…There’s a point in this business when success creates a new set of decisions.

You can keep building a great practice—serving clients well, growing steadily, and keeping things relatively simple. Or you can make the shift to building an enterprise, where everything changes: how you manage people, create structure, stay aligned, and think about the long term.

And once you go down that path, there’s no hiding the gaps.

In this episode, Leah Sciabarrasi, President and Managing Partner at Crestwood Advisors, recognizes that full well. Leah has been at Crestwood since day one—joining the firm at inception in 2003 and helping grow it from three people and zero assets to over $8B today.

Beyond the firm’s extraordinary growth, the real story is how deliberately that growth was achieved and how closely it’s been tied to the client experience along the way.

Because Crestwood didn’t grow through a single moment or a series of big moves. It’s been a steady evolution, growing client by client, integrating new capabilities, and investing ahead of where the business was at any given point in time.

And all of it anchored in a simple idea: grow in a way that the client doesn’t feel it.

In this conversation, Leah shares what it really looks like to build beyond a practice into an enterprise, including:

• The evolution of her role—and how she transitioned from doing the work to designing the environment where the work happens.
• Key decisions and inflection points—and how they specifically relate to their growth.
• Their Focus Financial partnership—and how that allows them to embrace the “boutique-at-scale” model.
• Alignment at the leadership level—and why it’s critical, particularly as complexity increases.
• Scaling without compromise—and how culture, structure, partnership, and private equity are vital to ensuring continuity in the client experience.

It’s a story designed for advisors and business owners alike—and it demonstrates that, at a certain size, growth isn’t just about getting bigger, but about building something that can sustain it.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesIntentional Growth: How Top Advisors Build Businesses That LastStrong markets can drive growth, but durable wealth management businesses are built with intention. Jason Diamond outlines five practices top advisors use to create scalable firms designed to last.

The Best of the Best: 10 Ways Top Advisors Are Growing Their BusinessesA “Top 10” list of firm-level innovations and grassroots methodologies from some of the most successful advisors, teams, and firm in the business. Listen in to spark ideas designed to drive greater growth.

Wealth Management Landscape at a GlanceThe wealth management industry offers more options than ever, making it challenging to identify and compare the various models. We created an “at a glance” continuum infographic—to help you navigate the different models and understand how their features stack up.

Leah R. Sciabarrasi, CFP®President/Managing Partner, Wealth ManagerLeah helped form Crestwood at its inception in 2003 and is a Wealth Manager and President/Managing Partner. Leah has been working with individuals and families to define and implement their strategies around wealth for over 20 years. She manages the Wealth Management team at Crestwood Advisors and, as President/Managing Partner, helps guide & implement strategic planning initiatives for the firm. Leah has a BA from Brandeis University, is a Certified Financial Planner™ practitioner with experience in comprehensive financial planning for high-net-worth clients and has been named multiple times to Boston Magazines “Five Star Wealth Managers”*. She is a member of the Financial Planning Association, the Boston Estate Planning Council, The Boston Club, the Executive Council of the Ellevate Network and regularly serves on industry panels. Leah previously served as Co-Chair of the Professional Advisory Council for The Boston Foundation and has been involved for many years with EMPath, formerly serving as Chair of the Board. Additionally, she currently serves as a Board Member for PSC Partners Seeking a Cure and concurrently engages in extensive patient advocacy work. Leah resides in Andover, MA with her husband and three children.

View Details

A Special Industry Update, With Jason Diamond and Mindy DiamondOverviewJason and Mindy Diamond revisit the transition playbook, this time focused on how advisor priorities are shifting. From AI and enterprise value to stability and flexibility, they unpack what’s changing in due diligence and what it means for advisors evaluating their next move.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

Watch…https://youtu.be/WZbUZJZK1yc

About this episode…There’s been a noticeable shift in how advisors approach decisions about their business. Not necessarily in whetherthey’re exploring change, but in what they focus on when they do.

A previous conversation, called The Advisor Transition Playbook, covered the mechanics of a move: how due diligence works, what a transition actually entails, and how to think through the process.

What’s become more apparent since then is that the inputs to that process are evolving. While the traditional drivers remain, additional considerations – some of which didn’t even exist a few months ago – have been layered on top. Things like:

• Artificial intelligence or AI—and not just as a tool, but as a differentiator that advisors are starting to diligence more seriously.
• Enterprise value—showing up in conversations even for advisors who don’t technically “own” their business but are thinking more critically about what they’re building over time.
• Stability, ownership, and flexibility—what happens to the firm itself, and whether advisors retain the ability to adapt again if circumstances change.

In this episode with Mindy Diamond, she and Jason explore what they’re seeing in real-world conversations. They unpack the newer triggers of advisor movement and the impact on how decisions are being made today.

It’s a deeper dive into what advisors should know about due diligence and transitions, with actionable advice on areas to cover and steps to take for an effective, efficient process in the new world order.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe Advisor Transition Playbook: Inside Baseball on Due Diligence, the Move, and Everything In Between
From due diligence to culture fit, client communication to deal evaluation, there’s far more to moving than meets the eye in this special Industry Update.

Conducting a Strategic Due Diligence Process: 10 Practical Tips for Financial Advisors
We’ve compiled these 10 tips to serve as a practical guide to navigating the process with efficiency.

The 4th Annual Advisor Transition Report
A data-driven look at where advisors are moving, why they’re making changes, and what it means for your business in 2026.

View Details

With Ben Domingue, Founder & Managing Partner of Family Office PartnersOverviewLouis Diamond speaks with Ben Domingue, Founder of Family Office Partners, on his move from UBS PWM to independence—why control became essential, and how building his own firm reshaped how he serves entrepreneurial clients.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

Watch…https://youtu.be/OQHKoj_n8Y8

About this episode…Many advisors build impressive businesses within large firms—serving entrepreneurs by helping them navigate liquidity events, capital decisions, and growth strategies.

But they’re still operating within someone else’s structure. And over time, a gap can develop between what you’re advising clients to do… and what you can actually execute yourself.

For Ben Domingue, that gap became a turning point.

After more than two decades at UBS Private Wealth Management, where he built a $2B ultra-high-net-worth practice, Ben became increasingly aware of the tension between the advice he was giving and the constraints of the platform he was operating within.

So he decided to leave and build Family Office Partners alongside Elevation Point—not to replicate what he had, but to design something different. A firm where he could “eat his own home cooking” and operate with the same level of control and flexibility his entrepreneurial clients expect.

In this episode with host Louis Diamond, Ben shares what that shift really looks like, including:

• The decision to leave UBS—and why he wanted to not replicate what he had, but to design something different.
• The lessons learned in serving entrepreneurs—and how that transformed his own mindset and business practices.
• The limitations at UBS—and its impact on how advice was delivered, and solutions were sourced.
• The reality of “getting bigger”—and why it wasn’t about scale for its own sake, but about building the capabilities his clients actually need.
• Choosing Elevation Point—and why they were the right partner for their independent firm.

This conversation offers a clear look at what changes when an advisor moves from producer to owner—and how that shift can reshape growth, service, and long-term strategy.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe Elevation of Independence: Jim Dickson on Building Real Enterprise ValueLouis Diamond speaks with the founder and CEO of Elevation Point about building a next-generation independent platform focused on ownership, minority capital, data strategy, and scalable, durable advisory firms.

Intentional Growth: How Top Advisors Build Businesses That LastStrong markets can drive growth, but durable wealth management businesses are built with intention. Jason Diamond outlines five practices top advisors use to create scalable firms designed to last.

Diamond Consultants UBS Advisor Transition Report 2025This “firm-focused report” seeks to look under the hood at movement to and from UBS from January to June of 2025.

Benjamin T. Domingue
Founder | Managing Partner

Ben is a Founder & Managing Partner of Family Office Partners, an independent multi-family office that works with founders, entrepreneurs, family offices, and ultra-high-net-worth families. With over 25 years of experience, he has guided clients with a range of complex needs while working closely with several members of their firm for more than two decades.

Prior to founding Family Office Partners, Ben spent 20+ years at UBS — including 11 years in its Private Wealth division where he served as Managing Director and was among the firm’s Chairman’s Club advisors. He advised some of UBS’s largest, most complex client relationships, specializing in private‐company ownership and significant liquidity transactions.¹

While there, he founded the Exit Planning & Wealth Consulting Group, coordinating with internal and external resources to address the complex needs of families and businesses, supporting over 40 transactions. Ben also frequently spoke on topics related to family wealth and the intricacies of private company transitions to other advisors and industry groups. His experience reinforced the view that solutions are rarely contained within a single institution, which led him and his partners to pursue a more collaborative, open-architecture business model focused on identifying the right resources, regardless of their origin, to best serve clients.

Family Office Partners was built on that insight. For Ben, the firm embodies a model built around an expansive matrix of specialists who have the experience of addressing real-world challenges faced by founders, entrepreneurs, and families, especially those navigating the complexity of private company ownership. What makes this work most rewarding for him is the significant learning he has gained from the clients themselves, leaders, innovators, and stewards of generational success. And for Ben, the most humbling aspect has been their desire not only to achieve their own goals but to contribute to the success of the firm and other families in similar positions.

Ben is married to Dana and has two children, Abby and Luke, both students at Louisiana State University.

My commitment to clients goes beyond managing wealth; it’s about partnering on critical family and business decisions that shape legacies for generations. I strive to cultivate deeply personal trust, built on over two decades of shared experience and collaborative problem-solving.

View Details

With Wen Nottebohm—Managing Director, Wealth Advisor at CressetOverviewWen Nottebohm of Cresset joins Mindy Diamond to share the next gen perspective: how advisors can design their own growth path, earn credibility among UHNW clients, the value of mentors, the influence of AI, and much more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

Watch…https://youtu.be/jmtqqBQ9C80

About this episode…There’s a fairly well-defined career path for most financial advisors.

You spend the early years learning the business, supporting senior advisors, and gradually taking on more responsibility. When it comes to ultra-high net worth clients, that timeline tends to stretch even longer, given the complexity and expectations that come with those relationships.

But the path isn’t always linear. And in some cases, it moves faster than people expect—especially when the focus shifts from simply accumulating experience to developing real expertise and “a seat at the table” early on.

That’s part of what makes Wen Nottebohm’s perspective so compelling.

Wen is part of the Atlanta team at Cresset, a $230B+ multi-family office. The team manages roughly $7B in assets, and Wen herself is advising on $1.6B for UHNW families and entrepreneurs.

What stands out is not just the scale, but how early in her career Wen stepped into that level of responsibility—and what it actually required to make that work.

In this conversation with Mindy Diamond, Wen offers a very real look at the next gen perspective, including:

• The wirehouse environment—and what made it a successful training ground.
• The value of a mentor—and how working with Justin Berman helped her move to the next level.
• Building a book to over $1B—and how she did so in a much shorter timeline than many of her peers.
• Earning credibility—and what it really takes to build a business and client trust with less of a track record.
• Working with a sophisticated client base—and how to manage expectations and identify what they really value.
• The benefit of a firm like Cresset—and how the more personalized culture and boutique feel creates a foundation for growth.
• The influence of AI—and how it’s both changing the dynamic and raising the level of the advisor-client conversation.

This episode is a masterclass for next gen and seasoned advisors alike, identifying what it really takes to build a billion-dollar business in a rapidly changing environment and questioning whether the traditional timeline for building an advisory practice is being rewritten in real time.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesFinding the Shortest Path to Excellence Can Be a Game Changer for AdvisorsDoing everything you can to deliver better service, drive growth, and achieve your goals faster can result in extraordinary benefits.

The 4th Annual Advisor Transition ReportA data-driven look at where advisors are moving, why they’re making changes, and what it means for your business in 2026.

Life After Goldman Sachs: A Story of Extraordinary SuccessEx-Goldman Sachs advisor Justin Berman shares how he found the courage to leave the Goldman imprimatur, brave Garden Leave, and build the $3B Berman Capital Advisors.

Wen Nottebohm
Managing Director and Wealth Advisor

Wen Nottebohm is a Managing Director, Wealth Advisor at Cresset. She works with clients to help protect and grow their legacy in order to have a bigger impact on what is most important to them. Wen was named to the 2024 Barron’s Top 100 Independent Advisors, 2025 Barron’s Top Independent Financial Advisors, 2025 Barron’s Top Financial Advisors By State, 2025 Barron’s Top Women Financial Advisors, 2025 Forbes Top Women Wealth Advisors Best-In-State, 2025 Forbes Best-In-State Wealth Advisors, 2025 Forbes Top Next-Gen Wealth Advisors Best-In-State, and 2025 Forbes America’s Top Next-Gen Wealth Advisors lists.

Prior to Cresset, Wen worked as a Wealth Advisor for Berman Capital Advisors, and before that was with AQR Capital Management, where she was a Client Strategies and Portfolio Solutions Analyst. Wen started out her career in the Private Wealth Management division at Morgan Stanley Smith Barney, where she specialized in risk and discretionary account management for the firm’s ultra-high-net-worth clients.

Wen graduated from MIT with Bachelor of Science degrees in Economics and Management Science. She also holds an MBA from The Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania. She obtained the CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER® designation in 2019.

Wen and her husband live in Atlanta with their son and daughter. She serves on the Board of the YWCA of Greater Atlanta and is involved with the Atlanta Regional Commission Global Advisory Panel, the MIT Alumni Association, the Wharton Club of Atlanta, and the Young Women Leadership Forum. Wen is also a member of the LEAD Atlanta Class of 2016.

View Details

With James Conole—Founder, Root FinancialOverviewJames Conole built Root Financial from zero to ~$2.4B in just 8 years. Louis Diamond speaks with him about how he grew the firm through content and inbound demand rather than traditional business development, and how Root approaches culture, growth, and operating in a fully virtual environment.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

Watch…https://youtu.be/qmBjVi82jDc

About this episode…Wealth management firms typically develop in a similar manner. It generally begins with a book of business, grows through referrals and relationships, and over time expands by adding other like-minded advisors. It’s a model that works—one that has been reinforced for decades.

However, James Conole took a different path, beginning from the ground up.

He’s the founder of Root Financial, a firm that’s grown to about $2.4B in assets in just 8 years. And what makes that growth interesting isn’t just the number—it’s how it happened.

James didn’t begin with a book, nor did he grow the business through traditional prospecting or by recruiting advisors with existing books of business.

Instead, the firm grew out of something else: content, inbound demand, and a very intentional approach to building a team that could support it.

That’s the focus of this conversation with Louis Diamond.

They dive into James’ story, including:

• The traditional playbook—and why James felt he could build a firm in a new way.
• The real value of content—and what made their YouTube videos an effective client acquisition engine.
• Balancing growth between demand and capacity—and why it’s not a process left to a single metric.
• The virtual firm—and how to foster and maintain consistency and culture as it scales.
• Effective Zoom team meetings—and what key activity drives their success.
• The “one meeting close”—and how that process changed their efficacy in onboarding new clients.

It’s a fresh look at building a business, managing growth, and creating a culture that’s rooted in the values and mission upon which the firm is built. Plenty to learn for advisors and business owners alike.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesCustody Reimagined: How Jason Wenk and Altruist Are Disrupting the Status QuoA candid conversation on rethinking custody from the ground up—and why simplification, aligned economics, and integrated technology are becoming critical for advisors building modern, scalable firms.

Firms That Win in 2025: What Advisors Are Really Looking ForWith advisor expectations evolving, not all “good firms” are winning the talent. Mindy and Louis Diamond share what today’s top advisors really value—and why some firms are standing out while others fall short.

Intentional Growth: How Top Advisors Build Businesses That LastMarkets can be a tailwind, but building a durable business requires intention and a plan. Here are 5 core practices from the industry’s elite.

The 10 Characteristics of the Most Successful TeamsThe most successful teams are led by strong leaders who guide cohesive groups with complementary skills, all working together towards a shared goal: success. We’ve put together a list of 10 key traits that top teams consistently excel in.

James Conole
Founder

Founder of Root Financial Partners, James is CFP® professional who practices financial planning for clients under a fiduciary oath. He received his MBA with a concentration in finance from Pepperdine University. He currently resides with his beautiful family in Cardiff, CA, and runs his financial planning firm out of Solana Beach.

James enjoys helping people navigate the complexities of their financial lives so they can be free to enjoy what they love most.

When he’s not working, James loves to surf, stay active, and spend time with his family. He’s also involved in his church and engages in several local organizations like the Rotary and San Diego Financial Literary Center.

View Details

With Ryan Guth, Founder, Goldfin GroupOverviewJason Diamond speaks with Ryan Guth, Founder of Goldfin Group, on moving beyond Edward Jones to build a business defined by control, differentiation, and entrepreneurial alignment. It’s a thoughtful conversation about independence, and what it really means to build a business that fits your clients, your strengths, and your long-term vision.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

Watch…https://youtu.be/SRQSjRbtRzY

About this episode…Advisors usually don’t set out seeking change.

In fact, the opposite is usually true. They build within a system, take advantage of the opportunities in front of them, and grow something meaningful over time. And for a while, that alignment works.

But over time, priorities evolve.

What once felt like the right environment can start to feel limiting: whether it’s how you serve clients, how you present yourself in the market, or how much control you really have over the direction of your business.

And that’s where things begin to shift.

In this episode, Ryan Guth, Founder of Goldfin Group, talks through that evolution in a very real and practical way. Ryan started his career at Edward Jones – an experience he still speaks very highly of – but ultimately decided to go independent to build a business that better reflected how he wanted to serve his entrepreneurial clients and express his entrepreneurial instincts.

What makes Ryan’s perspective especially interesting is his background. Before wealth management, he was a musical conductor. And that lens carries through into how he thinks about the advisor’s role today—not as someone focused on products or portfolios, but as the person coordinating all the moving parts of a client’s financial life.

Ryan unpacks it all with Jason Diamond, including:

• The decision to leave Edward Jones—and what he was looking to gain in independence.
• The importance of marketing—and how “differentiation” plays a major role in Goldfin’s success.
• The inside view of a transition—and what other advisors can learn both operationally and strategically.
• The alignment of his values and mindset with those of his clients—and how being an entrepreneur became more important over time.
• The impact of acquisitions—and Ryan’s firsthand perspective on the acquisition of his broker dealer, Atria.

It’s a thoughtful conversation about independence, but more importantly, it’s about what it really means to build a business that fits your clients, your strengths, and your long-term vision.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesPlayer or Coach? Why Every Advisor Eventually Has to Choose
As advisory firms grow, founders often face a critical inflection point: double down on being a top producer or evolve into a leader who builds lasting enterprise value.

The Annual Report on Recruiting, Deals, and TransitionsA companion to our annual Advisor Transition Report, Jason Diamond and Louis Diamond unpack what’s driving advisor movement in 2025, and what the data reveals about control, growth, and where the industry is heading.

IBD vs. RIA – Which Model Fits Your FutureThis guide offers a clear, side-by-side view of the two models—including distinctions between the DIY route of building an RIA from scratch and opting for a supportive independence platform to help align your business goals with greater options and opportunities.

Diamond Consultants Edward Jones Advisor Transition Report 2025This “firm-focused report” seeks to look under the hood at movement to and from Edward Jones from January to June of 2025.

Have You Outgrown Your IBD or the Model Itself?Spending years inside the independent broker dealer framework can eventually spark a deeper reckoning. Advisors begin to look beyond the logo on the statement and ask a more fundamental question: does this structure still align with the future they’re building, or has their business outgrown its foundation?

Ryan GuthFounder​

I lead Goldfin Group from Franklin, TN and Albuquerque, NM, where I combine strategic financial guidance with a deep understanding of entrepreneurs’ pivotal transitions. My leadership reflects a blend of professional insight and personal commitment, guiding clients toward aligning their financial strategies with their God-given purpose and gifts. I am a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ professional.

​I am married to my wife, Amanda, and am the father to three boys. I enjoy all things entrepreneurial and am always on the lookout for new and innovative ways to solve bigger problems for more people, so they can be a greater force for good in the world. I recently became an author in 2024 with my first book Permission to Exit: Prepare to Sell Your Business Without Regret. In my spare time, I enjoy CrossFit, reading/listening to books and podcasts, and finding ways to serve through ministry.

View Details

With Jason Diamond and Louis DiamondOverviewA companion to our annual Advisor Transition Report, Jason Diamond and Louis Diamond unpack what’s driving advisor movement in 2025, and what the data reveals about control, growth, and where the industry is heading.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

Watch…https://youtu.be/JJGz4N0Y4UI

About this episode…After thirty years of counseling financial advisors – including many of the most successful in the industry – we started to see patterns emerge.

Sure, every advisor’s situation is unique. And firms evolve, markets change, and business models shift. But the underlying questions advisors wrestle with around control, growth, and enterprise value tend to repeat themselves.

Increasingly, the answers to those questions are revealed in the data—that is, when you know where to look.

This is exactly why we go through the yearly process of creating our Advisor Transition Report. And this year’s edition doesn’t disappoint. (If you haven’t downloaded your copy yet, get the latest edition here.)

Just from raw numbers alone, here’s a spoiler alert: 11,172 experienced advisors changed firms in 2025 compared to 9,615 in 2024.

In this companion podcast episode, Jason and Louis take a deeper dive into the data and provide additional color on:

• What’s actually driving that level of movement?
• Where are advisors going and why?
• Which firms are the winners? And who’s losing the recruiting game?
• What models have become most attractive to advisors and why?
• What’s the impact of AI on the role of the advisor and movement—and how will it shape the industry at large?
• How is the balance of power between advisors and firms evolving?

Plus, they dive into some real-world transition case studies to further illustrate what’s driving change.

It’s an episode that provides an inside perspective on the trends behind advisor movement and recruiting, and the potential impact on advisors and business owners alike.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe 4th Annual Advisor Transition ReportA data-driven look at where advisors are moving, why they’re making changes, and what it means for your business in 2026.

View Details

With Todd Stankiewicz, President & CIO, and Joe Castiglie, COO & CIO – SYKON CapitalOverviewTodd Stankiewicz and Joe Castiglie of SYKON Capital join Jason Diamond to discuss redefining success after Merrill, launching their own RIA, and how independence allowed them to combine institutional-caliber investing with behavioral insights to deliver peace of mind to clients.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

Watch…https://youtu.be/EoWNsiS_-AA

About this episode…For many advisors, success at a wirehouse is relatively easy to measure by assets, production, and growth.

But what happens when those metrics don’t reflect what should come by way of success—that is, a sense of feeling fulfilled?

This episode dives into the moment when two successful Merrill advisors realized that growth alone wasn’t the true measure of their success: it was delivering on their vision of providing real peace of mind to their clients. And that required a broader toolkit than the traditional model allowed.

So, Todd Stankiewicz and Joe Castiglie decided to launch their own RIA, SYKON Capital, and build a firm grounded in full control from investment philosophy to client experience to culture.

With Jason Diamond, Todd and Joe unpack their story, including:

• The turning point in their conversations—and when it shifted from “We’re building something successful here,” to “We might want to build something of our own.”
• Their definition of success—and how it evolved over time.
• Their introduction to the independent community—and why it changed their perspective.
• Their unique combination of institutional-caliber investment management and behavioral insight—and why they felt they could only achieve it in an independent model.
• The operational and leadership perspective—and what they found to be the biggest and most surprising challenges in launching an independent firm.

For advisors who are successful where they are — but quietly wondering if there’s more on the other side — this conversation will challenge how you define control, growth, and impact.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesDiamond Consultants Merrill Advisor Transition Report 2025
This annual “firm-focused report” takes a closer look at advisor movement to and from Merrill during the first half of 2025.

Intentional Growth: How Top Advisors Build Businesses That Last
Markets can be a tailwind, but building a durable business requires intention and a plan. Here are 5 core practices from the industry’s elite.

Why So Many Successful Advisors Feel StuckThey’ve built thriving businesses. Strong production. Loyal clients. Growing teams. So why do so many successful advisors quietly wonder, “Why doesn’t this feel as good as I expected?” This episode tackles the psychology of success and what comes after it.

Todd Stankiewicz
President, CIO

As President and Chief Investment Officer of SYKON Capital, I lead a firm built around one simple idea: it’s not just about the money, it’s about what your money enables you to do.

We combine values-based financial planning with institutional-grade investment management, all grounded in behavioral insights. That means fewer cookie-cutter strategies and more tailored, actionable guidance that meets you where you are, and helps you get where you want to go.

Whether you’re navigating a major life transition, looking to scale your wealth, or simply want more clarity and control, we’re here to simplify the complex and deliver advice that actually feels personal.

Because at SYKON, we don’t just manage portfolios. We help people live better, more intentional lives.

Joseph P. Castiglie III
CFA

As Chief Operating Officer and Chief Investment Officer of SYKON Capital, I am responsible for leading the firm’s investment strategy and overseeing day-to-day operational excellence — all with a singular focus: helping clients achieve meaningful, lasting financial outcomes.

At SYKON, we work to ensure every element of the client experience is intentional, streamlined, and aligned with each individual’s goals and stage of life. From portfolio design to strategic planning and firm-wide processes, my approach reflects SYKON’s mission to meet clients where they are and guide them with clarity and care.

By combining disciplined investment oversight with practical, real-world insight, I help deliver personalized financial strategies that support confident decision-making and long-term success.

View Details

With Dylan Ripley & Todd Vincent – Managing Partners and Financial Planners, Cedarwood Financial PartnersOverviewTodd Vincent and Dylan Ripley join Mindy Diamond to share the reality of leaving Edward Jones, defending a two-year lawsuit, and still nearly doubling their business. A candid look at resilience, and what really happens when the firm pushes back.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

Watch…https://youtu.be/G5-oAHz5kWQ

About this episode…For many advisors considering change, the concern about legal retaliation from their firm often lingers in the background.

But what if you move and that fear comes to fruition? What will it do to your business? And what if – instead of derailing you – it ultimately becomes a catalyst for growth?

Every transition comes with some risk and uncertainty—even when you dot every “i” and cross every “t.” And a non-Protocol move adds an extra layer of complexity.

This episode’s guests, Todd Vincent and Dylan Ripley, learned all that firsthand.

Todd spent nearly 30 years at Edward Jones, and Dylan built his career there over more than a decade, eventually partnering with Todd in a multi-office practice overseeing close to $1B in assets. Over time, they realized they could do more for their clients – and grow the business faster – if they stepped outside the traditional firm model.

In exploration, they liked the idea of having a support partner rather than building their own RIA and ultimately opted for Commonwealth Financial Network to launch Cedarwood Financial Partners.

The transition itself went smoothly—that is, until they found themselves navigating a lawsuit from Edward Jones that lasted nearly two years.

In one of our most candid episodes yet, Todd and Dylan walk through that experience with Mindy Diamond, sharing:

• The choice to leave Edward Jones—and what specifically motivated them to consider change.
• The initial transition—and when they learned they had “poked the bear.”
• The reality of defending a lawsuit—and how they worked through it.
• The value of messaging—and how partnering with a marketing firm was a gamechanger.
• Nearly doubling their assets under management, despite the lawsuit—and what key traits drove their success.

It’s an episode that answers the question on every advisor’s mind, “What happens if the firm sues me?” and does so with candor and grace. Listen in to learn how resilience drives what comes next: how advisors can steady themselves, rebuild momentum, and grow on the other side of a challenge.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesTop Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a Move
Whether you’re just exploring what’s out there or actively conducting due diligence, these insights will help you position your business and team for success, whenever the time is right.

How to Avoid the Dreaded TRO: Legal Strategies for Advisors in TransitionAs TROs and lawsuits make headlines, two top attorneys who represented Merrill breakaways OpenArc, share how advisors can minimize risk, protect client relationships, and make a clean move with confidence.

Dylan Ripley
CEO / Financial Planner

After serving his clients at Edward Jones for almost ten years, Dylan Ripley co-founded Cedarwood Financial Partners in 2022 following a tabletop discussion on how he and his partner could better serve their clients, scratching out their vision on a napkin. From that initial napkin chat, he began diligently working to make this vision a reality through extensive research and sweat equity.

Dylan holds a Bachelor of Business Management from the Carlos Alvarez School of Business at The University of Texas–San Antonio. After joining Edward Jones, he earned the Accredited Asset Management Specialist certification through the College of Financial Planning.

He has a passion to serve others and does so through his service to clients and his community involvement. He is a current member of the Rotary Club of Temple, serving on the board for two years. He’s also a small group leader at his church and active in local Chamber of Commerce events. Most recently he was asked to serve on the advisory board for the Salvation Army of Bell County.

Dylan and his wife, Cayleigh, have three children. When he’s not serving his clients or community, he can be found experiencing the world with his family, chasing kiddos around a ball field, golfing, or attending any live concert he can.

Todd Vincent
Chairman / Financial Planner

Todd Vincent co-founded Cedarwood Financial Partners after serving his clients at Edward Jones for twenty-six years. Prior to Edward Jones, Todd served four years in the U.S. Army as a field artillery officer with the 1st Cavalry Division at Fort Hood, Texas.

Todd earned his Bachelor of Arts in Chemistry and Economics from Bucknell University in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania. He also holds a Master of Theology (ThM) from Dallas Theological Seminary.

Todd and his wife, Stefanie, have three young adult children. As a family, they are active in their community and their church. They are an adventurous family who loves travel and outdoor activities. They reside on a 142–acre game ranch they share with others who desire rest, renewal, and recreation. Todd’s favorite hobbies include camping, hunting, and riding his Harley-Davidson.

Todd specializes in finding creative methods to produce retirement income and efficient wealth transfer strategies.

View Details

With James Poer, CEO Kestra Holdings, John Amore, President Kestra Financial and Fayez Muhtadie, Co-Head of Private Equity at Stone Point CapitalOverviewLouis Diamond sits down with James Poer (Kestra Holdings), John Amore (Kestra Financial), and Fayez Muhtadie (Stone Point Capital), who share unique vantage points of how scale, private equity, and alignment shape enterprise value in today’s wealth management landscape.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

Watch…https://youtu.be/jqE5vfTRewc

About this episode…As advisory practices grow larger and more sophisticated, the definition of success is shifting. For many advisors, it’s no longer just about income or payout. It’s about ownership, alignment, and building something that carries real enterprise value.

That shift raises important questions, such as:

• What does scale actually enable?
• How should advisors think about capital?
• And what does alignment really look like between firm leadership, capital providers, and the advisors they serve?

To explore that, we invited three guests who see this from unique vantage points. James Poer, who leads Kestra Holdings, John Amore, who oversees the strategy and execution behind Kestra Financial’s growth, and Fayez Muhtadie, who represents Stone Point Capital, Kestra’s private equity partner.

Kestra today operates one of the larger independent wealth management ecosystems in the country, supporting roughly 1,450 advisors and overseeing more than $160B in assets across its broker dealer and RIA platforms. Stone Point, for its part, is a financial services-focused private equity firm with decades of experience investing in banks, asset managers, insurers, and wealth platforms.

Together, they represent a scaled, privately backed model that has become increasingly common in our industry.

In this episode with Louis Diamond, they unpack what they describe as “multiple ways to win” actually means inside a platform of this size, including:

• The Kestra ecosystem—and how the firm has evolved from its founding to spin-off from NPF.
• The value of private equity ownership—and how common misconceptions impact the positive potential.
• The importance of cultural alignment—and how it can be preserved as firms grow.
• Growth and scale—and why James believes this business is not an income game, but a wealth game.
• Plus, the questions advisors should be asking when assessing their current firm or platform.

If you’re evaluating scale, ownership, or long-term enterprise value in your business, this is a conversation worth hearing.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesIs Scale a Necessary Evil in Wealth Management?Scale can provide a competitive advantage. Yet there might be scenarios in which bigger isn’t always better.

Wealth Management Landscape at a GlanceThe wealth management industry offers more options than ever, making it challenging to identify and compare the various models. We created this “at a glance” continuum infographic—to help you navigate the different models and understand how their features stack up.

How to Set Up Your Business to Maximize Enterprise ValueJason and Louis Diamond explore strategies for maximizing enterprise value, whether or not an advisor plans to move. Learn actionable insights, key business practices, short-term vs. long-term tactics, and real-world examples.

James Poer
Chief Executive Officer of Kestra Holdings

James Poer is Chief Executive Officer of Kestra Holdings, an ecosystem of companies empowering high-performing financial advisors to achieve lasting independence. Together, Kestra’s businesses deliver a full end-to-end suite of wealth management solutions for success driven and entrepreneurial-focused financial professionals, including investment solutions, technology services, succession and monetization, insurance and planning services, trust services, and back-office support.

James most recently chaired the Financial Services Institute (FSI) Board of Directors after serving for several years on the board. He currently sits on the Board of Advisors for the Langston Wealth Management Center at The University of Texas at Austin’s McComb’s School of Business, serves as Chair of Arden Trust Company’s Board of Directors, and is a member of the Board of Kestra Holdings.

A true native Texan and alum of Texas Christian University, James currently resides in Austin, Texas.

John Amore
President of Kestra Financial

As the President of industry-leading wealth management company Kestra Financial, John is committed to building out capabilities that empower the success of Kestra’s financial advisors and the financial independence of their clients. Through a comprehensive suite of offerings across portfolio construction, investment products, advisory services, financial planning, retirement plans, alternative investments, and insurance solutions, John and his team are focused on helping Kestra’s advisors thrive in a community of complete wealth managers. Prior to his role as President, John served as Head of Wealth Management for Kestra Financial, leveraging his global leadership experience to ensure every aspect of Kestra’s wealth management offering drives growth and innovation, enabling financial professionals to accomplish their business objectives.

John has had the privilege of leading wealth management teams for more than 14 years in the United States, Europe, and Latin America. Prior to joining Kestra Financial, he led global businesses at UBS across financial planning, portfolio construction, estate planning, wealth planning, investment products, and trust solutions. John began his career in management consulting in the financial services sector and earned his MBA/MIA at Columbia University and his BS at Boston College.

Fayez Muhtadie
CO-HEAD OF PRIVATE EQUITY

Fayez is Co-Head of Private Equity at Stone Point Capital and a member of the Investment Committees of the Trident Funds. He has more than 25 years of experience in the private equity and investment banking industries. Fayez helps to lead Stone Point Capital’s global investments in asset & wealth management, business services, employee benefits & human capital management, insurance run-off and lending & markets. Fayez joined Stone Point in 2003.

View Details

With Jim Dickson — Founding Partner and CEO, Elevation PointOverviewLouis Diamond speaks with the founder and CEO of Elevation Point about building a next-generation independent platform focused on ownership, minority capital, data strategy, and scalable, durable advisory firms.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

Watch…https://youtu.be/D0-y8Q-DYvg

About this episode…For decades, advisors operated under the assumption that there was a single path to success—a defined route dominated by the largest and most prominent firms. Over time, the landscape of options expanded, and the independent space matured. With it came a new set of challenges: how to turn the pursuit of freedom and control into something durable, scalable, and ultimately into a true enterprise.

Jim Dickson has been thinking through that challenge for most of his career.

After two decades at Merrill, Jim went on to found Sanctuary Wealth (a story we shared earlier in this series), where he played a central role in shaping what supportive independence could look like for growing advisory teams.

Today, his own journey has entered a new chapter with Elevation Point—a next-generation independent platform focused on helping advisors take business ownership to a new level, with alignment, scalability, and long-term value at the core.

In this episode, Jim and Louis Diamond talk about what led Jim to this new chapter, including:

• Elevation Point’s unique value proposition—and how it fills a gap in the landscape.
• The value of capital—and how Elevation Point adds value along the way.
• Increasing enterprise value—and what advisors can do to grow without sacrificing control.
• Ownership and alignment—and why “how much of the pie you actually own” becomes more important as firms grow.
• Growth and partnership—and what it really means to build a firm intentionally over time.
• AI, data, and technology—and how each can support better decision-making.

This is a story about yet another evolution in the landscape of options available to advisors—and why the future of independence is less about exits and more about elevation.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe Right Way to Build a Team
Three strategies to create a foundation designed to foster long-term alignment and growth—and, ultimately, a legacy.

MaxCeV™: How to Maximize Your Career Enterprise Value
This tool breaks down four key factors that contribute to career enterprise value, offering a framework for advisors to conceptualize and achieve their full potential.

An Advisor’s Guide to 2026: What 2025 Set in Motion and What Comes Next
As 2026 comes into focus, advisors face a new set of strategic questions. This Industry Update explores the forces reshaping growth, deal structures, and enterprise value—and what those shifts may signal for the new year and beyond.

JIM DICKSONFOUNDING PARTNER AND CEO

Jim Dickson is a seasoned executive, entrepreneur, private investor, and innovator in wealth management with over four decades of experience in the financial services industry. Renowned for his advocacy for independent financial advisors, Jim is a visionary leader with experience in designing and implementing high-growth strategies for advisory firms.

Jim’s deep understanding of the industry landscape positions him as a driving force behind transformative change, empowering advisors and firms to thrive in an ever-evolving marketplace. His growth mindset for RIAs and independence-seeking advisors prioritizes an “advisor-first” approach, tailored to an advisor’s values and long-term vision.

Jim co-founded Elevation Point with Mark Penske in 2024 to serve as a value-aligned growth partner to independence-focused advisors and RIAs. Jim previously founded and built nationally recognized wealth management firm Sanctuary Wealth, which he launched in 2018. He was the visionary behind Sanctuary Wealth’s Partnered IndependenceSM platform, providing elite advisors with all of the tools, services, and resources needed to fully and effectively serve their clients. Under Jim’s leadership, it grew rapidly into one of the industry’s top RIA firms, with more than $25 billion in assets and 76 partner firms in 28 states by 2023, when he left the firm.

Prior to Sanctuary Wealth, Jim spent 20 years as a senior divisional executive building and leading strategy for Merrill Lynch in Indianapolis and Chicago. He began his career as an accountant at Ernst & Young in Indianapolis.

Jim received his bachelor’s degree in accounting and finance from Butler University, where he later served on the Board of Trustees for six years. He has been a leadership conference judge for FFA, a national non-profit organization preparing middle and high school students for careers in agricultural science, business, and technology.

View Details

With Louis Diamond and Mindy DiamondOverviewThey’ve built thriving businesses. Strong production. Loyal clients. Growing teams.
So why do so many successful advisors quietly wonder, “Why doesn’t this feel as good as I expected?” This episode tackles the psychology of success and what comes after it.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

Watch…https://youtu.be/nrmtRBlJJVs

About this episode…We often speak with advisors who, by every external measure, are exceptionally well-performing. They’ve built real businesses, with strong production, loyal clients, and teams that continue to grow.

Yet behind closed doors, many of these same advisors are quietly asking a different set of questions. Not “How do I fix what’s broken?” but “Why doesn’t this feel as good as I expected?”

That tension is showing up more often than it did five or ten years ago. It’s not because advisors are failing. In many cases, it’s because they’ve won and now face another 15 or 20 years of “more of the same,” unsure whether comfort has replaced energy.

This Industry Update is about that moment.

Louis and Mindy Diamond unpack what we’re hearing from successful advisors across the industry:

• What feels different for successful advisors vs. five or ten years ago.
• Why success itself can become a constraint.
• How fear of change competes with fear of standing still.
• What the reality is regarding freedom and control.
• Why record valuations, longer careers, and the maturity of the independent space are changing the psychology of decision-making.

They also discuss the right questions to ask before considering a move – questions about control, enterprise value, legacy, and time horizon – and how all advisors can create clarity without forcing a decision.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesHow to Free Yourself from the “If Only” Mindset
Here are the 5 most common self-limiting statements that advisors share—and ways to reframe your thinking.

Limitless Growth: Building the Business You Want and the Life to Match
Stephanie Bogan, founder of Limitless Advisor, offers a glimpse into the advice and perspective she shares with advisors and business leaders in the wealth management world, focusing on mindset and methods, and their relationship to achieving one’s best business life.

View Details

With Joe Duran – Managing Partner, Rise Growth PartnersOverviewHe’s built and rebuilt some of the industry’s most successful firms and now he’s helping others do the same. In this episode, Joe Duran, the founder of Rise Growth Partners shares lessons from building, selling, and starting again, and how staying curious and adaptable fuels lasting success.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Joe Duran’s career has always been about reaching new heights—and then helping others climb on their own. A proverbial mountain climber himself, Joe built and sold two of the most successful firms in the RIA space: Centurion Capital and United Capital.

Today, Joe sees himself as a sherpa—guiding the next generation of entrepreneurs through his latest venture, Rise Growth Partners. His story is one of constant reinvention, relentless curiosity, and the humility to keep asking one simple question: “What if I’m wrong?”

Joe first joined us on the show back in 2020, shortly after the sale of United Capital to Goldman Sachs. Now, with the benefit of both hindsight and foresight, Joe revisits that experience and explores the mindset behind building truly world-class firms, including:

• The Goldman experience—and what he learned from the sale of United Capital.
• The development of Rise—and how he sees it helping to shift the narrative in the industry.
• Learning from your clients instead of your competitors—and why that’s the real key to building a world-class firm.
• Finding an investor that can “really help you—and why you need to look beyond “financiers.”
• Adding services without adding staff—and when you shouldn’t look in-house for solutions.
• Challenging your assumptions—and how to stay relevant in an industry that never stops changing.
• And why being great doesn’t necessarily mean being the biggest.

Joe also reflects on how the industry can avoid the risk of mega-RIAs repeating the mistakes of the wirehouses.

It’s a candid and thought-provoking conversation about reinvention, leadership, value creation, and what it means to evolve from mountain climber to sherpa from one of the industry’s trailblazers.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesWhy Settle for “Good Enough” When Great is Possible?In a vastly expanded industry landscape with more high-quality options than ever before, some advisors settle for “good enough” when the potential for “great” is often within reach. What’s holding them back?

Limitless Growth: Building the Business You Want and the Life to MatchStephanie Bogan, founder of Limitless Advisor, offers a glimpse into the advice and perspective she shares with advisors and business leaders in the wealth management world, focusing on mindset and methods, and their relationship to achieving one’s best business life.

Wealth Management Landscape at a GlanceThe wealth management industry offers more options than ever, making it challenging to identify and compare the various models. We created this “at a glance” continuum infographic—to help you navigate the different models and understand how their features stack up.

Joe Duran
Managing Partner

Joe Duran is a serial entrepreneur and an industry visionary in wealth management and wealthtech.

Early in 2024, Joe and his team launched Rise Growth Partners (‘Rise’), the industry’s first harmonious financial partner. With firsthand experience in building nationally recognized registered investment advisers (RIAs), Rise’s team partners with middle-market RIAs, providing capital and strategic expertise.

Previously, Joe was a Partner at Goldman Sachs, serving as Co-Head of the Workplace and Personal Wealth business. He founded and served as CEO of United Capital, one of the nation’s largest independent wealth management firms, which Goldman Sachs acquired in July 2019. Prior to that, he built and sold Centurion Capital–one of the first turnkey asset management platforms–to General Electric, where he served as President of GE Private Asset Management (now listed as NYSE: AMK).

Joe is the author of three bestselling books on investing and entrepreneurship. He is a sought-after conference and podcast speaker and appears frequently on a broad spectrum of media, ranging from CNBC to Goop.

Joe has MBAs from Columbia University and UC Berkeley, as well as an undergraduate degree from Saint Louis University. He is a CFA Charterholder and a member of the Young President’s Organization (YPO), the world’s largest leadership community of chief executives. A Yogi for decades, he meditates daily and is an avid beach volleyball player.

Joe and his wife Jennifer cherish their three daughters and share a love of frequent travel, dining, dancing and live concerts.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Dennis Morton, Founder and Senior Wealth Advisor at Morton Brown Family WealthOverviewFor Dennis Morton, succession isn’t a future problem, it’s a leadership obligation. Drawing on his experience as an Army platoon leader and co-founder of an independent firm, he shares how technical competence, accountability, and bold goals drive culture, next-gen leadership, and a business that can thrive beyond any one person.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…In wealth management, success is often measured by assets, growth, or longevity. But there’s another measure that’s harder to quantify and far more revealing: whether the business you’ve built can thrive without you at its center.

For Dennis Morton, succession isn’t a future problem to solve. It’s a leadership obligation.

Before co-founding Morton Brown Family Wealth with his partner Katie Brown, Dennis served as a platoon leader in the U.S. Army, including a deployment during the Iraq War. That experience shapes how he approaches leadership today: you have to be technically and tactically competent—but just as important, you have to be accountable to the people you lead. Without this combination, execution breaks down.

In this conversation with Jason Diamond, Dennis discusses how that mindset directly informs how Dennis has built his firm, as well as:

• The road to financial advice—and how a poor experience with an advisor led him to consider joining a training program at Smith Barney.
• Finding the right partner—and how the ability to be “authentic” drives collaboration.
• The value of independence—and how it gave them the freedom to communicate openly, market authentically, and simplify complexity for clients.
• Setting bold, audacious goals—and how that creates clarity for leadership and teams.
• Cultivating next-generation leaders—and how it became central to his success strategy, not as a contingency plan.
• His leadership philosophy—and why he feels “you’re not a success without a successor.”

This is an episode about stewardship, leadership, and building something that lasts beyond any one person—with important messages for individual advisors and business owners alike.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesAdvisors Late in Their Careers: Making Decisions Based on What Matters Most
How clarity, legacy, and clients – not just simplicity – should guide your final career choices.

Wealth Management Landscape at a Glance
We created this “at a glance” continuum infographic—to help you navigate the different models and understand how their features stack up.

An Advisor’s Guide to 2026: What 2025 Set in Motion and What Comes Next
As 2026 comes into focus, advisors face a new set of strategic questions. This Industry Update explores the forces reshaping growth, deal structures, and enterprise value—and what those shifts may signal for the new year and beyond.

Dennis Morton
Co-Founder & Senior Wealth Advisor

Dennis Morton is the Co-Founder of Morton Brown Family Wealth, a boutique Registered Investment Adviser headquartered in Eastern Pennsylvania, serving individuals and families nationwide. He is a speaker, podcast host, and industry thought leader known for his human-first approach to leadership, culture, and client experience. Founded with a vision to transform the way people experience financial advice, the firm has grown steadily through a relationship-driven model and a strong emphasis on developing people and building meaningful relationships.
Dennis leads with a unique blend of strategic thinking, emotional intelligence, and long-term perspective. His advisory relationships are built on trust, deep connection, and a belief that financial planning should serve the whole person, not just the numbers. He is passionate about developing people, building sustainable teams, and creating an environment where both clients and professionals can thrive.

A U.S. Army veteran, Dennis was awarded a Bronze Star for his service during Operation Iraqi Freedom. His military experience shaped his leadership style, instilling discipline, accountability, and a strong sense of responsibility. He brings authenticity and integrity into every aspect of his work, with a constant focus on doing what’s right for clients, colleagues, and the community.
Dennis’s path to financial advising is unconventional. After earning a degree in history, completing four years of military service, and working in corporate management, he felt called to pursue financial advising. His early experience at a Wall Street wirehouse left him dissatisfied with the limitations of the traditional model, prompting him to leave and build a firm centered on fiduciary responsibility, personal connection, and holistic planning.

Deeply rooted in the Lehigh Valley community, Dennis is actively involved in local leadership and service initiatives. This commitment to giving back is embedded in the culture of Morton Brown, where community engagement and meaningful connection are core to the firm’s mission.
Dennis is a devoted husband and father of four. Outside the office, he enjoys trail running, fly fishing, hiking, and music. A self-taught guitarist, he values the collaboration and connection music fosters and is intentional about building community among peers through shared interests and experiences.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Jason Wenk—Founder and CEO, AltruistOverviewA candid conversation on rethinking custody from the ground up—and why simplification, aligned economics, and integrated technology are becoming critical for advisors building modern, scalable firms.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…For decades, advisors have built their businesses on custodial infrastructure that was never designed to support how modern firms actually operate. In many cases, fragmented technology stacks, paper-heavy processes, and economic factors often benefit the platform more than the advisor or client.

Jason Wenk saw that firsthand.

Before launching Altruist, Jason built and scaled FormulaFolios from zero to over $4B in assets—giving him a front-row seat to what works, what breaks, and where traditional custody and technology create friction as firms grow.

Rather than layering another tool on top of an already complex system, Jason made a far more ambitious bet: to rebuild custody, technology, and economics from the ground up as a single, fully integrated platform.

In this conversation with host Louis Diamond, Jason pulls back the curtain on what it really takes to build a next-generation custodian, including:

• The myths around custody and brand—and why the next wave of growth may belong to firms willing to rethink the infrastructure they build on.
• Challenging long-standing assumptions around custody—and why Altruist built a vertically integrated solution from the ground up.
• The advantages of vertical integration—and why simplification, automation, and aligned economics are becoming essential to advisor growth.
• The real cost of complexity—and why so many advisors and business owners underestimate it.
• The value of AI and automation—and how Jason sees it will reshape the next-generation RIA.

It’s a thoughtful, candid look at the future of custody and what it means for advisors who want to build scalable, modern businesses.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe Future of Prospecting: How AI Is Powering the Next Era of Advisor GrowthFINNY Co-Founder Eden Ovadia shares how AI is transforming advisor prospecting: automating outreach, matching advisors with ideal clients, and freeing time for deeper human connection. A forward-looking conversation on what growth will look like in the next era of wealth management.

The Four Horsemen of the Independent ApocalypseModel or partner misalignment is often the driver of these four common frustrations independent advisors encounter.

Wealth Management Landscape at a GlanceWe created this “at a glance” continuum infographic—to help you navigate the different models and understand how their features stack up.

Jason Wenk
Founder and CEO

Jason Wenk is the Founder and CEO of Altruist, the only modern custodian that’s fully digital, vertically integrated, and built exclusively for RIAs. Jason has lived and breathed the financial services industry over the last 25 years as a financial advisor, investment systems developer, analyst, and founder of his previous company, FormulaFolios.

With Jason as CEO, FormulaFolios achieved a 13,927% 3-year growth rate and managed over $3.2 billion. This rapid growth ranked the firm as a fastest-growing private company in the country by Inc. magazine 4 years in a row, reaching as high as #10.

Jason was also recently named a national EY Entrepreneur of the Year in 2018.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Tim Krueger, Co-Founder and Partner at Krueger, Fosdyck, Brown, McCall & Associates – NewEdge Advisors, LLCOverviewFor many advisors, the real question isn’t how big the business becomes—but what happens next. This episode explores how Tim Krueger and his $1.4B Merrill team rethought succession, liquidity, and legacy to create long-term continuity.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…For many advisors, success is defined by growth: more clients, more assets, more revenue. But at some point, the question shifts from, “How big can we build this?” to “What happens next?”

After nearly two decades at Merrill, Tim Krueger and his partners had built a $1.4B practice and one of the most successful teams in their market. By any traditional measure, the internal sunset path would have been the simplest option. But simplicity wasn’t the goal. Protecting clients, creating opportunities for the next generation, and preserving the culture they had built mattered more.

That led Tim and his partners to make a very different decision: to break away from the wirehouse, sell out of that environment entirely, and align with NewEdge Advisors in a way that solved for succession, liquidity, and long-term continuity—simultaneously.

In this conversation with Louis Diamond, Tim shares how focusing on other people’s needs – clients, teammates, and future leaders – became the ultimate growth strategy. Plus, they discuss:

• Lessons learned over nearly two decades at Merrill—and how structure, team building, and next gen cultivation become paramount.
• Stepping away from Merrill’s CTP retire-in-place program—and what other business owners shared with him that inspired the decision to leave the wirehouse.
• Opting to align with NewEdge Advisors—and how liquidity and continuity were key factors.
• “Shrinking to grow”—and why it isn’t just a portfolio philosophy, but a business one.
• Monetizing the business—and how the process can be a new beginning for the business, not an end for the business owners.
• Building a true runway for G2 and G3—and how it can create a rare win-win-win for founders, teams, and clients alike.

It’s a candid look at what life after a wirehouse can unlock—and how thinking differently about succession can redefine both legacy and fulfillment.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesDiamond Consultants Merrill Advisor Transition ReportThis annual “firm-focused report” takes a closer look at advisor movement to and from Merrill during the first half of 2025.

The Transition Roundtable: Merrill, UBS, Wells, and Morgan Advisors Reflect on Their Paths
Four top advisors who each left a major firm share how they built successful independent businesses on their own terms. Originally recorded as a live webinar, this candid roundtable explores the real fears, challenges, and opportunities of transition, and what advisors wish they’d known before making the leap.

Shrink to Grow: Why Advisors are Making the “Strategic Decision” to Let Go of Assets
In a world where bigger is considered better, many of Wall Street’s most talented and productive advisors are opting to go against the grain and leave chips on the table.

Tim Krueger

With over four decades years of experience in financial services, Tim Krueger is a recognized leader in wealth management. As Co-Founder and Partner at KFBMA, Tim provides strategic oversight for the firm’s vision, growth, and operational excellence. He guides key initiatives, mentors advisors, and ensures that KFBMA remains at the forefront of industry’s best practices, delivering a client experience defined by trust, innovation, and results.

Drawing on decades of experience in private wealth management, Tim combines strategic insight with deep expertise in investment planning, risk mitigation, and tax-efficient strategies. His commitment to building enduring relationships ensures that every recommendation is tailored to deliver meaningful, long-term results aligned with each client’s goals and family priorities

Tim is known for creating comprehensive, highly personalized wealth management strategies that reflect the goals, values, and family priorities of his clients. His approach combines strategic insight with a commitment to building lasting relationships, ensuring advice that drives meaningful, long-term results that align with each client’s goals and family priorities.

In 2025, Tim partnered with Cory Fosdyck, Jerry Brown, and Collin McCall to establish Krueger, Fosdyck, Brown, McCall & Associates (KFBMA)—an evolution of the highly regarded Krueger, Fosdyck & Associates team that operated under Merrill Lynch Wealth Management from 2006 to 2025.

Beyond his professional achievements, Tim is a passionate community advocate. He has emceed numerous charitable events in the Destin area and served as Chair of the American Cancer Society’s Cattle Barons’ Ball (2008–2009) and Chairman of the Safety & Public Works Committee for the City of Destin. Today, Tim continues to make an impact as a Trustee of the Destin Charity Wine Auction Foundation, charter sponsor of Sinfonia Gulf Coast, and supporter of the Mattie Kelly Arts Foundation and Special Operators Transition Foundation. Tim also serves on the board of directors of DEFENSEWERX the nation’s largest 501(c)(3) organization of its kind, dedicated to enabling agile innovation for government partners through a network of innovation hubs across the country.

Recognition & Honors:
Named to Forbes Best-in-State Wealth Advisors list (2022–2025)
Named to Forbes Best-in-State Wealth Management Teams list (2023–2025)

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Jason Ozur, Founding Partner, Chief Executive Officer, Lido AdvisorsOverviewAs firms pursue scale, advisors face a critical question: how do you grow without compromising the client experience? Jason Ozur joins the show to explore what intentional growth really looks like and what scale can enable when culture and clarity come first.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Over the last decade, scale has become one of the defining themes in wealth management. Larger firms promise broader resources, deeper infrastructure, and expanded opportunity. But they also raise a fair question: at what point does growth begin to work against the client experience it’s meant to enhance?

That’s the center of today’s conversation.

Jason Ozur and his partners at Lido Advisors have built one of the largest RIAs in the country, managing more than $40B in assets, while maintaining a family-office mindset and a distinctly client-first culture. What’s notable is not just the firm’s growth, but how intentionally it has been pursued.

Jason talks about Lido’s growth story and more with Jason Diamond, including:

• The real constraints on growth—and the roles of culture, capital, and clients.
• The role of the wirehouses in the modern landscape and how the RIA model differs.
• The realities of scale—and what it enables when done thoughtfully.
• The concept of “bigger is better”—and why Jason sees that as an oversimplification.
• Integration versus aggregation—and how Lido evaluates acquisitions.
• The evolving role of private equity in the RIA space—and why access to capital doesn’t have to come at the expense of independence or client outcomes.

It’s a candid look at what sustainable growth actually means—and what advisors and owners should consider as firms across the industry continue to grow.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesIs Scale a Necessary Evil in Wealth Management?Scale can provide a competitive advantage. Yet there might be scenarios in which bigger isn’t always better.

How to Set Up Your Business to Maximize Enterprise ValueJason and Louis Diamond explore strategies for maximizing enterprise value, whether or not an advisor plans to move. Learn actionable insights, key business practices, short-term vs. long-term tactics, and real-world examples.

IBD vs. RIA – Which Model Fits Your FutureThis guide offers a clear, side-by-side view of the two models—including distinctions between the DIY route of building an RIA from scratch and opting for a supportive independence platform to help align your business goals with greater options and opportunities.

Jason Ozur
Chief Executive Officer

Jason Ozur is the Chief Executive Officer of Lido Advisors, where he considers client focus central to his leadership and devotes significant time and attention to the individuals and families he serves. Based in Los Angeles, he also serves as Co-Chair of the investment committee, overseeing Lido’s alternative investment platform and leading due diligence on real estate-oriented strategies.

A Certified Public Accountant, Jason earned his B.S. from California State University at Northridge before beginning his career in public accounting. He worked as a CPA performing audits, preparing tax returns, and providing back-office services for numerous hedge funds. In 1999, he joined a large family investment office, becoming part of the team that managed the family’s substantial investments. During this time, he also served as CFO of the family’s worldwide water conservation company, which operated in more than 22 countries, and later provided financial oversight as controller for a multi-billion-dollar Los Angeles–based hedge fund.

In addition to his executive and investment responsibilities, Jason is deeply committed to shaping Lido’s culture. He takes an active mentorship role within the firm, fostering an environment rooted in progression, excellence, and integrity.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Jason Diamond and Louis DiamondOverviewAs 2026 comes into focus, advisors face a new set of strategic questions. This Industry Update explores the forces reshaping growth, deal structures, and enterprise value—and what those shifts may signal for the new year and beyond.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Over the last year, we’ve seen meaningful shifts in how advisors think about growth, long-term strategy, and enterprise-value creation. Some of those changes were obvious. Others were quieter, but no less consequential.

And with 2025 in the rearview mirror, the real question becomes: What does it all mean for the year ahead?

Before this recording, we published our annual Of Myths and Moving article—a retrospective look at the narratives that shaped advisor decision-making in 2025. This conversation builds on that foundation, but with a different objective: to share perspectives on what the road ahead may look like.

Listen in as Jason and Louis discuss:

• The most prominent developments from 2025—and those we believe will continue to compound and serve as inflection points for advisors and firms.
• Evolving deal structures—and what that means for advisors considering change.
• The business models under increasing pressure—and where we expect the most advisor movement to come from next.
• Creative capital constructs—and how it may impact the movement of top teams.
• The realities around growth and scale—and how expectations are shifting across the industry.
• The role of tech and AI—and whether advisors and firms will see advancements as a friend or foe.

It’s an annual episode designed to help advisors think more clearly about the forces shaping their businesses and how to position themselves thoughtfully for what comes next.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesOf Myths and Moving: 2025
6 common misconceptions in the wealth management industry that have new meaning for financial advisors in the coming year.

The Transition Roundtable: Merrill, UBS, Wells, and Morgan Advisors Reflect on Their Paths
Four top advisors who each left a major firm share how they built successful independent businesses on their own terms. Originally recorded as a live webinar, this candid roundtable explores the real fears, challenges, and opportunities of transition, and what advisors wish they’d known before making the leap.

Top Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a Move
Even if a move is years away, or just a possibility, these insights will help you position your business and team for success, whenever the time is right.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Sam Anderson, Chief Capital Officer and Co-Head of Dynasty Investment Bank at Dynasty Financial Partners LLCOverviewAdvisors are now weighing options once reserved for institutional executives. This conversation examines how a collaborative initiative between Diamond Consultants and Dynasty Investment Bank delivers objective, investment-banking-level analysis to help advisors evaluate value, control, and long-term outcomes with clarity.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…For the largest and most sophisticated advisory teams, the industry has reached an inflection point. Private equity continues to reshape valuations and deal structures. Retire-in-place programs at the wirehouses have become meaningfully more competitive. And multi-billion-dollar teams increasingly find themselves evaluating not just where to go next, but why—and what each option means from both a strategic and financial perspective.

Yet one thing has become clear: Most advisors have never had access to true investment-banking-level analysis around value, liquidity, and long-term economics.

As a result, they’ve been making the biggest decisions of their careers with incomplete or incomparable information.

That gap is exactly what inspired the creation of the Breakaway Investment Banking Initiative—a joint effort between Diamond Consultants and the Dynasty Investment Bank designed to bring objective, institutional-grade financial insight into the advisor decision-making process.

Sam Anderson, Chief Capital Officer and Co-Head of Dynasty Investment Bank at Dynasty Financial Partners, joins Louis Diamond to discuss the backstory and how this collaborative initiative can benefit elite advisors and teams, including:

• The breakaway landscape—and what’s changed in recent years.
• Private equity—and how it has influenced expectations.
• Autonomy vs. economics—and how to resolve the often-competing priorities.
• Short-term liquidity—and what its potential impact could be on long-term value.

It’s an objective, candid look at the strategic and financial considerations that shape the biggest decisions large advisory teams will ever make—and how the Breakaway Investment Banking Initiative is designed to provide greater clarity to help advisors make critical decisions.

Dynasty Investment Bank services are offered through Dynasty Securities, LLC, a broker-dealer, member FINRA/SIPC and a wholly owned subsidiary of Dynasty Financial Partners, LLC.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe Breakaway Investment Bank Initiative
A single, coordinated framework for elite advisors that prioritizes objectivity, clarity, and long-term value.

Dynasty Financial Partners and Diamond Consultants Partner to Launch the Breakaway Investment Banking InitiativeDynasty Financial Partners and Diamond Consultants, proudly unveil a unique initiative for top-tier wirehouse and broker-dealer advisor teams across the United States.

The Missing Narrative of the $129B Merrill Breakaway StoryThe largest (and quite possibly most significant) advisor breakaway in industry history made news this week. Yet instead of leading with the scale or significance of the move, headlines centered on Merrill’s lawsuit alleging corporate raiding.

Sam AndersonChief Capital Officer, Co-Head of Investment Banking

Sam Anderson is the Co-Head of Dynasty Investment Bank at Dynasty Financial Partners LLC. Prior to joining Dynasty, Sam was Senior Managing Director and a member of the Management Committee at Medley Management Inc. Prior to joining Medley, Sam was Head of Commercial Finance M&A within the Financial Institutions Investment Banking Group at Goldman Sachs. Prior to joining Goldman Sachs, Sam was a member of the Investment Banking Financial Services Group at Bank of America. Prior to his time at Bank of America, Sam held various positions at Citi Smith Barney.

Sam is from New Portland Maine, a graduate of Bates College where he received his BA in Economics and was Captain of the Bates NCAA Division I alpine ski team. Sam currently lives in Vail Colorado with his wife Lisa and their three children. Sam and family are active in numerous local charities with a focus on youth sports.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Brandon Ross, CFP® — Co-Founder and Co-CEO, Quotient Wealth PartnersOverviewQuotient Wealth Partners proves that enterprise-scale growth doesn’t require private equity or shortcuts. This episode breaks down how discipline, culture, and organic momentum drove the firm’s rise to $4.4B—without sacrificing independence or client experience.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…When you look at the most successful advisory firms in the industry, many grew through acquisition, capital partners, or transition deals. But there’s another version of growth: one built through discipline, culture, and a relentless focus on doing the work.

Today’s guest, Brandon Ross, has lived that journey from every angle. Before launching Quotient Wealth Partners, he built Peak Capital. Peak merged with Joe Duran’s United Capital early in its rise and later experienced the shift to a large-firm environment when United was acquired by Goldman Sachs.

After years of experience across the spectrum – from independent to aggregator to Wall Street firm – Brandon identified the best elements of each model. So, when Brandon and his partners launched Quotient, they were intentional about what they carried forward and what they left behind.

Ultimately, they created a firm with the freedom of independence, the scale of a modern enterprise, and a culture where growth starts at the top (not with a checkbook).

It’s a philosophy that’s paid off. In just two years, Quotient has grown from $2.5B to $4.4B in AUM, powered almost entirely by organic momentum.

• The elements of Quotient’s success—and how they combined the innovation of Goldman Sachs, the independence of an RIA, and the drive of a startup.
• Launching their RIA—and why they chose the Dynasty Financial Partners platform.
• Building a growth engine—and how they turned it into a repeatable playbook.
• Advisor training programs—and how they create an unwavering focus on the client experience.
• Their referral culture—and how that powers their organic growth.

Plus, Brandon explains why they’ve resisted private equity, why “sweat equity is the best equity,” how they’ve scaled without losing their entrepreneurial edge, and more.

Listen in for a valuable growth story, grounded by a transitional experience few can offer.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe Good News on Marketing: An Industry Legend on How to Grow Bigger Faster
A free session on accelerating growth via marketing with one of the leading firms in the wealth management industry. They offer advice on the value of content, the referral process, building strategic partnerships, CRMs and technology, and much more.

A Strategic Guide to the Supported RIA Model
While the model has become a go-to for advisors seeking independence, understanding the variety of types and options can be challenging. Here’s a breakdown of what advisors need to know.

Brandon Ross
Co-Founder and Co-CEO

Brandon Ross is a Co-Founder and Co-CEO of Quotient Wealth Partners, an independent wealth management firm. Brandon, along with his dedicated partners, established the firm with a shared vision of delivering memorable client experiences while nurturing a thriving and positive employee culture. With over 26 years of expertise as a Certified Financial Planner, Brandon brings a wealth of experience to the firm, its advisors, and its clients. He is deeply committed to providing comprehensive financial planning and guidance tailored to each client’s unique needs and objectives.

Prior to starting Quotient Wealth Partners, Brandon held key positions, Co-Founder of Peak Capital Investment Services, Managing Director/Head of Office at Goldman Sachs, PFM. Brandon holds a Bachelor of Science in Finance from Oklahoma State University. Beyond the firm, he finds joy in teeing it up on the golf course, watching sports, and cherishing moments with friends and family. Brandon and his wife Nicole are proud parents to two their two daughters, Sierra and Haley.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Eden Ovadia, Co-Founder of FINNYOverviewFINNY Co-Founder Eden Ovadia shares how AI is transforming advisor prospecting: automating outreach, matching advisors with ideal clients, and freeing time for deeper human connection. A forward-looking conversation on what growth will look like in the next era of wealth management.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Growth is every advisor’s goal—but it’s also one of the biggest challenges.

Traditional prospecting requires time, effort, and often a readiness to do things most advisors prefer to avoid: networking, cold outreach, or endless follow-ups.

Eden Ovadia and her co-founders developed FINNY to change that. Using artificial intelligence, FINNY automatically identifies and matches advisors with ideal prospects (those who share their values, interests, and financial needs) and even reaches out on the advisor’s behalf with personalized messages across multiple channels.

The result? A platform that helps advisors grow while doing less work. It’s what Eden calls the “holy grail of growth.”

Eden joins Louis Diamond in this episode to explore how AI is transforming client acquisition and what it means for the future of advice, including:

• Eden’s background—and what she learned at Y Combinator and BCG that shaped FINNY’s vision.
• FINNY’s data engine—and how it works to match clients and advisors “like a dating app for wealth management.”
• Using AI to scale personalized outreach—and why the next generation of advisors is embracing this concept.
• AI and its impact on human connection—and why she believes technology will free advisors to actually spend more time doing what AI cannot do.
• The biggest myth around AI—and how tools like FINNY will help create better and more relevant connections.

It’s a fascinating look at how the next wave of innovation is making growth smarter – and more human – than ever before.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesHuman Intelligence in the Age of AI: Why Recruiters Still MatterArtificial intelligence can analyze firms and deals. It can’t replace the insight and advocacy that help advisors make the right move.

The Best of the Best: 10 Ways Top Advisors Are Growing Their BusinessesA “Top 10” list of firm-level innovations and grassroots methodologies from some of the most successful advisors, teams, and firm in the business. Listen in to spark ideas designed to drive greater growth.

Top Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a MoveWhether you’re just exploring what’s out there or actively conducting due diligence, these insights will help you position your business and team for success, whenever the time is right.

Eden Ovadia
Co-Founder

Eden launched FINNY alongside her co-founders in May 2024 to tackle the organic growth challenge facing RIAs. FINNY’s AI technology automates lead identification, prioritizes high-potential prospects and streamlines how advisors connect with clients. Under Eden’s leadership, FINNY has seen early success—earning acceptance into the Y Combinator startup accelerator program and raising a $4.3 million seed round in December 2024. She brings a deep background in AI, software engineering and entrepreneurship to her work, combining technical expertise with a strategic lens. Before co-founding FINNY, Eden was an Associate at Boston Consulting Group, where she primarily worked in the technology, financial institutions, and private equity practices. She holds a Bachelor of Engineering from McGill University with a specialization in Machine Learning. While at McGill, Eden also worked as a Cybersecurity Advisory Associate at EY and KPMG.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Pete Tiboris, CEO and Partner, Park Avenue CapitalOverviewPark Avenue Capital CEO Pete Tiboris shares how he and his partners built a $4B enterprise inside Northwestern Mutual through intentional design, a pod-based advisor structure, a culture built on fit and alignment, and an unwavering focus on the client experience.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…What does it take to build and sustain a $4B enterprise within a broker dealer ecosystem?

For most advisors, that kind of scale might seem out of reach. But Peter Tiboris and his partnersat Park Avenue Capital have done just that—reimagining what a fully integrated, high-performing advisory business can look like within the Northwestern Mutual network.

At Park Avenue Capital, Pete and his team have created a structure that balances both organic and inorganic growth, guided by a clear philosophy: focus on people, process, and client experience. From building an advisor pod system that doubles advisor capacity to hiring a former general manager from St. Regis Hotels to elevate every client interaction, Pete has turned operational excellence into a competitive advantage.

Pete joins Louis Diamond in this episode to discuss all that, plus:

• Building a business at Northwestern Mutual—and why it’s still the right home for Park Avenue Capital.
• The upfront work around creating a business designed to scale—and how that’s allowed them to grow organically in ways that few advisory firms can.
• Their corporate philosophy—and how the lens of culture, fit, and client alignment influences their work.
• Their approach to acquisitions—and why some of their best decisions involved walking away from opportunities.
• Their “hyper-focus on the client experience”—and how it fuels their incredible growth.

Plus, Pete shares why he still considers Park Avenue Capital “a startup at heart.”

It’s a rare look inside a $4B firm—and a fascinating conversation about scale, leadership, and how the right design can fuel extraordinary growth even within an independent broker dealer model.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesIBD vs. RIA – Which Model Fits Your Future
This guide offers a clear, side-by-side view of the two models—including distinctions between the DIY route of building an RIA from scratch and opting for a supportive independence platform to help align your business goals with greater options and opportunities.

Is Scale a Necessary Evil in Wealth Management?Scale can provide a competitive advantage. Yet there might be scenarios in which bigger isn’t always better.

The Best of the Best: 10 Ways Top Advisors Are Growing Their Businesses
A “Top 10” list of firm-level innovations and grassroots methodologies from some of the most successful advisors, teams, and firm in the business. Listen in to spark ideas designed to drive greater growth.

Peter Tiboris
CEO and Partner

Peter Tiboris started with Northwestern Mutual in 2002 straight out of college.  Since then, he’s a 13-time Forum Qualifier and is a 5-star Pathfinder.   He ranks in the top 150 in career insurance production in the history of Northwestern Mutual, is a Barron’s Top 1200 Advisor, Forbes Top Security Professional and a Forbes Best in State Advisor.

In 2022, Peter announced partnering with Ben Feldman to form Park Avenue Capital.  Their team of 50 represents one of the fastest-growing enterprises at Northwestern Mutual nationally.  Through organic growth and developing strategic succession solutions for NM advisors on the doorstep of retirement, Ben and Peter’s goal is to become the first NM enterprise to reach $100 million in revenue.

Peter prides himself on his ability to prospect in social environments.  Nick Murry has called Peter “the best networker I have ever known – or even known of – in a half century in this business”.

He lives in New Jersey with his wife Christy and four children, Dessa, Ernie, Susana and Selene.  He’s an avid golfer, traveler and lover of food experiences and red wine.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

OverviewFour top advisors who each left a major firm share how they built successful independent businesses on their own terms. Originally recorded as a live webinar, this candid roundtable explores the real fears, challenges, and opportunities of transition, and what advisors wish they’d known before making the leap.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Advisors considering independence often ask the same questions:
What finally pushes someone to leave a major firm?
How do you handle the fear of losing clients?
What would you do differently if you could do it again?

In this special episode (a replay of one of our most engaging webinars), Louis Diamond moderates a discussion with four advisors who’ve been there and built thriving firms after leaving Merrill, UBS, Wells Fargo, and Morgan Stanley:

Trent Leyda, SpirePoint Private Client (formerly of Morgan Stanley)

Jordan Raniszeski, Carnegie Private Wealth (formerly of Wells Fargo Advisors)

Rebecca Baker, Marble Wealth (formerly of UBS)

Jerry Davidse, Presilium Private Wealth (formerly of Merrill Lynch)

Together, they offer rare, first-hand insight into what independence really looks like beyond the headlines: the risks, rewards, surprises, and decisions that shaped their journeys.

Listeners will learn:

• What drove each advisor to leave their firm—and what ultimately tipped the scales.
• How they managed the fear of client loss—and what actually happened next.
• The biggest surprises of running their own business—and the lessons they’d share with others.
• How independence reshaped their client relationships—and their lives.
• And much more from our guest-submitted questions.

It’s an unfiltered, practical look at transition from those who’ve lived it and a powerful resource for any advisor exploring what could be next—whether currently at a wirehouse or already an independent business owner.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesActivating Plan B: Wirehouse Breakaways Build a Legacy Family Wealth OfficeTrent Leyda and Kay Campione offer a unique perspective on their time at Morgan Stanley, how it had come to diverge from their vision of building a family office they would entrust with their own families’ wealth, and how they are better equipped to realize that vision as an independent firm.

Outgrowing the Employee Model: How an ex-Merrill Advisor Found Autonomy & Abundance in IndependenceJerry Davidse discusses his transition from Merrill to building RIA firm Presilium Private Wealth with partner Brook Hart. He shares how they gained the freedom to communicate and create an exceptional experience for their clients, their outstanding portability ratio, uptick of referrals, and more.

Seeing the Future Through the Eyes of the Client: A $770mm UBS Breakaway StoryMatthew Murphy and Rebecca Baker of Marble Wealth discuss their choice to leave UBS and opt for independence early in their careers, the impact of signing on to the firm’s retire-in-place program ALFA, their age as a competitive advantage, and much more.

A $1B+ Wells Fargo Breakaway Team Gets Re-Energized in a New ModelIn building a $1B business at Wells, Angie Ostendarp and Jordan Raniszeski realized they had outgrown the model, which limited their ability to serve their clients and continue their growth trajectory. They share why supported independence was the right fit and how it’s changed their path toward the future.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Neil Rubinstein, Private Advisor and Managing Director, RSA Family Wealth, Rockefeller Global Family OfficeOverviewAfter 18 years at Merrill, Neil Rubinstein and his team joined Rockefeller Global Family Office, finding a platform purpose-built for ultra-high-net-worth clients and redefining what “exclusive access” and extraordinary growth can look like for elite advisors.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Advisors often assume that staying at a wirehouse means access to the best products, the strongest brand, and the most “exclusive” opportunities. But what happens when you discover that “exclusive” can mean something very different – and far more powerful – outside the walls of a big firm?

That’s the story of Neil Rubinstein, an 18-year Merrill veteran who made the move to Rockefeller Global Family Office in 2019.

It was a decision driven by the realization that things were changing at Merrill. As Neil describes it, he and his team were spending more time checking mortgages and credit cards than they were managing their clients’ wealth potential.

Diamond Consultants had the privilege of helping guide Neil on his journey to identify what could be “better enough” to take on the hassle of moving a practice managing $600mm in assets. And while independence was intriguing, Rockefeller checked off many more boxes than Neil could have imagined.

Since then, Neil’s practice has more than doubled in both revenue and assets under management.

In this episode with host Mindy Diamond, Neil offers a perspective on life after Merrill, including:

• What changed at Merrill to prompt Neil to explore—and what options they considered in the process.
• The decision not to go independent—and why they instead opted for a firm that allowed them to be “independent enough.”
• The decision to join Rockefeller—and how the firm’s name and value proposition create a powerful connection with clients and prospects.
• The value of Rockefeller’s platform—and how being “purpose-built” for high and ultra-high net worth clients has unlocked avenues of growth Neil hadn’t imagined.
• The perception of what’s considered “exclusive” at a wirehouse—and how that definition shifted at Rockefeller.
• More than 2X growth—and why Neil believes he’s in a better position than ever before to continue that trajectory.

For advisors considering their next chapter, this is a grounded look at access, alignment, and growth told by someone who’s lived on both sides—with a candid look at the heralded Rockefeller brand.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesRockefeller Revisited: What’s Driving the Success of this 3-Year-Old “Modern” Multi-Family Office?
Rockefeller Capital Management has become one of the most sought-after options for advisors looking to deliver concierge-level service to ultra- and high net worth clients. National Field Director Michael Outlaw shares an insider’s perspective.

Wealth Management Landscape at a GlanceThe wealth management industry offers more options than ever, making it challenging to identify and compare the various models. We created this “at a glance” continuum infographic—to help you navigate the different models and understand how their features stack up.

Neil D. Rubinstein
Private Advisor & Managing Director

Neil is a founding partner of RSA Family Wealth and joined Rockefeller Capital Management in June 2019. He is dedicated to providing financial planning, investment management, and wealth structuring services to successful families in North Texas and across the United States. Along with all members of RSA Family Wealth, Neil is committed to delivering a high-touch, professional service and enjoys working with great families every day.

Neil has more than twenty-six years of experience in the field of finance. He obtained his undergraduate degree in accounting and MPA (Master of Professional Accounting) from the University of Texas at Austin. Neil began his career in public accounting as a C.P.A. with PriceWaterhouseCoopers. Neil was named to Forbes “Best-in-State Wealth Advisors” list in 2018, 2019, 2023, and 2024.

Neil is a Certified Investment Management Analyst® (CIMA), awarded by the Investments & Wealth Institute™ (formerly Investment Management Consultants Association) through the Wharton School of Business.

Neil and his family reside in Plano, Texas. Neil and his wife, Dafna, are involved in the community, both serving on community Boards of Directors and committees. He is a graduate of Leadership Plano and a Past President of the Board of both Congregation Anshai Torah and Akiba Yavneh Academy of Dallas.

Both Neil and his family enjoy staying active and spending time in Breckenridge, CO, skiing in the winter and hiking in the summer.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Alex Markowitz – Founding and Managing Partner, Alteri WealthOverviewAfter more than a decade at Merrill, Alex Markowitz wanted to serve clients differently, without quotas or constraints. He launched Alteri Wealth, an independent firm built on empathy, teamwork, and what he calls a “financial physician” approach to client care and growth.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Not every advisor aims to work in wealth management—and even fewer begin in medical school. However, for this episode’s guest, the similarities between medicine and financial advice are strong: empathy, the desire to help, and the commitment to “do no harm.”

Alex Markowitz couldn’t imagine taking on the debt of medical school. But he could envision serving those who needed his help another way: as a financial advisor. That belief would ultimately lead him from the world of medicine to Merrill Lynch, and later, from Merrill to independence.

After more than a decade in the wirehouse environment, Alex found that the rules, quotas, and bureaucracy left little room to be a true fiduciary. He couldn’t thrive in a profession where corporate structures dictated both his future and the outcomes of those he served.

The turning point came when he began asking a simple question: “If I were fully independent, how would I serve my clients differently?”

A year and a half later, as Founding Partner of Alteri Wealth, Alex is answering that question every day. Built around a “financial physician” approach to client care, the firm’s growth comes entirely through referrals—no marketing, no lead generation, just radical candor and results.

In this episode, Louis Diamond speaks with Alex about his journey, including:

• Recognizing misalignments with the wirehouse—and how that reality set his thoughts on independence in motion.
• Leaving Merrill to build an independent firm—and how that unlocked the ability to merge multiple solo practices into a unified team.
• The value of hiring a COO—and why they saw the role as “essential” from day one.
• The “clients first” approach—and how it serves as both their guiding principle and a powerful growth strategy.
• The “gathering assets” mindset of the wirehouses—and how being free of that allows him to think of his business as a business.

It’s a candid look at what life after the wirehouses can look like—and how independence can transform not just a business, but the very way an advisor defines success.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesDiamond Consultants Merrill Advisor Transition Report
This annual “firm-focused report” takes a closer look at advisor movement to and from Merrill during the first half of 2025.

The Advisor Transition Playbook: Inside Baseball on Due Diligence, the Move, and Everything In Between
A guide to advisor transitions: due diligence, culture, deals, client comms,and lessons from the $129B Merrill breakaway.

Mindset Shift: Why Advisors are Forgoing a Recruiting Deal and Leaping Right to Independence6 reasons why more advisors are choosing to bet on themselves before monetizing their businesses.

Alex Markowitz
Founding Partner

Alex Markowitz is a Founding Partner of Alteri Wealth, where he leads with a singular focus: his clients and their families. With a background in Biological Anthropology and Chemistry from UC San Diego, graduating Cum Laude, Alex initially pursued a medical degree before discovering his true calling in financial services. This pivot led to a distinguished 13-year career at Merrill Lynch, where he rose to the rank of Senior Vice President and was honored on the Forbes Best-In-State Next-Generation Wealth Advisor List in 2023.

Driven by a desire to serve clients more holistically, Alex co-founded Alteri Wealth to build the Family Office of the future. One that integrates every aspect of a client’s financial life with innovation, care, and purpose. Known as a “financial physician,” Alex takes a comprehensive and diagnostic approach to wealth management, ensuring that each client’s unique needs are addressed with precision and empathy.

Alex’s passion for helping others extends beyond his professional life. He is deeply involved in his community, volunteering with his local Temple, The Friendship Circle—an organization supporting families of children with disabilities—and the City of Hope in the fight against cancer. A proud resident of Westlake Village, Alex shares his life with his wife Michelle and their beloved rescue dogs, Dom and Bon Jovi. Outside of work, he’s an avid Miami Dolphins fan, LEGO enthusiast, and bourbon aficionado. His ideal evening includes a glass of bourbon, a classic Carole King or James Taylor record spinning on the turntable, and the challenge of constructing intricate LEGO masterpieces.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Jarrod Malone & Michael Bressan, Partners at ShumakerOverviewAs TROs and lawsuits make headlines, two top attorneys who represented Merrill breakaways OpenArc, share how advisors can minimize risk, protect client relationships, and make a clean move with confidence.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…If you’ve been keeping up with recent industry headlines, you’ve likely noticed a concerning trend: a growing number of TROs (temporary restraining orders) being filed by wirehouses and large firms against advisors who leave.

Firms like Merrill and UBS are increasingly using TROs to restrict advisors from contacting clients or moving accounts immediately after resignation. For those caught in the crosshairs, the consequences can be serious: reputational damage, legal fees, and weeks of uncertainty at exactly the wrong time. Yet for those who are moving with guidance from attorneys experienced in advisor transitions, and are coloring within the lines, it can seem that these legal actions are more show than substance.

To help us unpack what’s happening and, more importantly, how to avoid becoming a headline yourself, Louis Diamond is joined by Jarrod Malone and Michael Bressan, two leading attorneys who represent financial advisors in transitions and disputes.

Their firm, Shumaker, has handled thousands of advisor-related cases—including defending the recent OpenArc transition from Merrill, which drew national attention when a judge quickly ruled in favor of the breakaway team.

Together, they explore:

• The recent uptick in TROs—and what’s driving the resurgence.
• The firms that have been the most aggressive—and who they are targeting.
• The biggest mistakes advisors can make in a transition—and how to limit your legal risk.
• Merrill’s lawsuit against recent breakaways OpenArc—and what key lessons other transitioning advisors can learn.
• The best practices advisors should implement before, during, and after a move—and why having the right legal plan in place can make all the difference.It’s an eye-opening conversation on the legal side of advisor transitions—and how to make your next move with clarity and confidence.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesTop Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a MoveEven if a move is years away—or just a possibility—it’s never too soon to start preparing. In this guide, we’ve gathered the most impactful tips from 20+ years of working with advisors navigating transitions. Whether you’re just exploring what’s out there or actively conducting due diligence, these insights will help you position your business and team for success, whenever the time is right.

The Missing Narrative of the $129B Merrill Breakaway Story
The largest (and quite possibly most significant) advisor breakaway in industry history made news this week. Yet instead of leading with the scale or significance of the move, headlines centered on Merrill’s lawsuit alleging corporate raiding.

The $129B Blockbuster Move: Shirl Penney on Why This Transition Marks a New Era for the Industry
The $129B OpenArc breakaway marks a watershed moment for wealth management. In this Rapid Reaction episode, Louis Diamond and Shirl Penney unpack what it means for the RIA model, advisors, and the future of industry competition.

Michael D. Bressan
Partner

Michael is a member of a team of lawyers who represent large financial institutions and high-net-worth individuals regarding employment transitions and violations of contractual covenants. His practice primarily focuses on securities law, restrictive covenants, trade secrets, corporate change in control issues, mergers and acquisitions, commercial litigation, arbitration, and high-level negotiation.

Jarrod J. Malone
Partner

Jarrod focuses his litigation practice on representing financial and investment advisors transitioning from firm to firm and has advised on some of the largest transitions in the country. He has significant litigation experience in State and Federal Courts, FINRA arbitrations, and has been class counsel in numerous class actions. Jarrod is one of the few lawyers in the United States who have successfully brought Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations claims in federal court and has handled dozens of TRO cases, both prosecuting and defending, throughout the country. He has substantial knowledge in electronic discovery and has assisted numerous corporations in data breach incidents.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Joe Duran – Managing Partner, Rise Growth PartnersOverviewHe’s built and rebuilt some of the industry’s most successful firms and now he’s helping others do the same. In this episode, Joe Duran, the founder of Rise Growth Partners, shares lessons from building, selling, and starting again, and how staying curious and adaptable fuels lasting success.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Joe Duran’s career has always been about reaching new heights—and then helping others climb on their own. A proverbial mountain climber himself, Joe built and sold two of the most successful firms in the RIA space: Centurion Capital and United Capital.

Today, Joe sees himself as a sherpa—guiding the next generation of entrepreneurs through his latest venture, Rise Growth Partners. His story is one of constant reinvention, relentless curiosity, and the humility to keep asking one simple question: “What if I’m wrong?”

Joe first joined us on the show back in 2020, shortly after the sale of United Capital to Goldman Sachs. Now, with the benefit of both hindsight and foresight, Joe revisits that experience and explores the mindset behind building truly world-class firms, including:

• The Goldman experience—and what he learned from the sale of United Capital.
• The development of Rise—and how he sees it helping to shift the narrative in the industry.
• Learning from your clients instead of your competitors—and why that’s the real key to building a world-class firm.
• Finding an investor that can “really help you—and why you need to look beyond “financiers.”
• Adding services without adding staff—and when you shouldn’t look in-house for solutions.
• Challenging your assumptions—and how to stay relevant in an industry that never stops changing.
• And why being great doesn’t necessarily mean being the biggest.

Joe also reflects on how the industry can avoid the risk of mega-RIAs repeating the mistakes of the wirehouses.

It’s a candid and thought-provoking conversation about reinvention, leadership, value creation, and what it means to evolve from mountain climber to sherpa from one of the industry’s trailblazers.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesWhy Settle for “Good Enough” When Great is Possible?In a vastly expanded industry landscape with more high-quality options than ever before, some advisors settle for “good enough” when the potential for “great” is often within reach. What’s holding them back?

Limitless Growth: Building the Business You Want and the Life to MatchStephanie Bogan, founder of Limitless Advisor, offers a glimpse into the advice and perspective she shares with advisors and business leaders in the wealth management world, focusing on mindset and methods, and their relationship to achieving one’s best business life.

Wealth Management Landscape at a GlanceThe wealth management industry offers more options than ever, making it challenging to identify and compare the various models. We created this “at a glance” continuum infographic—to help you navigate the different models and understand how their features stack up.

Joe Duran
Managing Partner

Joe Duran is a serial entrepreneur and an industry visionary in wealth management and wealthtech.

Early in 2024, Joe and his team launched Rise Growth Partners (‘Rise’), the industry’s first harmonious financial partner. With firsthand experience in building nationally recognized registered investment advisers (RIAs), Rise’s team partners with middle-market RIAs, providing capital and strategic expertise.

Previously, Joe was a Partner at Goldman Sachs, serving as Co-Head of the Workplace and Personal Wealth business. He founded and served as CEO of United Capital, one of the nation’s largest independent wealth management firms, which Goldman Sachs acquired in July 2019. Prior to that, he built and sold Centurion Capital–one of the first turnkey asset management platforms–to General Electric, where he served as President of GE Private Asset Management (now listed as NYSE: AMK).

Joe is the author of three bestselling books on investing and entrepreneurship. He is a sought-after conference and podcast speaker and appears frequently on a broad spectrum of media, ranging from CNBC to Goop.

Joe has MBAs from Columbia University and UC Berkeley, as well as an undergraduate degree from Saint Louis University. He is a CFA Charterholder and a member of the Young President’s Organization (YPO), the world’s largest leadership community of chief executives. A Yogi for decades, he meditates daily and is an avid beach volleyball player.

Joe and his wife Jennifer cherish their three daughters and share a love of frequent travel, dining, dancing and live concerts.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Steve Davis, Founder & CEO, Madison & Elm Wealth ManagementOverviewAfter more than a decade at Edward Jones, Steve Davis realized he’d outgrown the model. He wanted more control, flexibility, and the ability to serve clients his way. In this episode, Steve shares how he built a lean, focused, and highly efficient independent practice with LPL—and why success isn’t about size, but about designing a business that fits your life.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…When we talk about advisors “outgrowing the firm,” it often sounds theoretical. For this episode’s guest, it’s anything but.

After more than a decade at Edward Jones, Steve Davis found himself limited—unable to market his CFP® credential, restricted on hiring, and frustrated by compliance that treated every advisor the same, regardless of experience. The breaking point came when he lost a major client relationship: not because of service, but because he simply couldn’t access the solutions that his client needed inside the Edward Jones model.

That was when it became clear that Steve hadn’t just outgrown Edward Jones; he needed a platform that matched where he wanted to take his practice well into the future.

Today, as the founder of Madison & Elm Wealth Management, an independent practice affiliated with LPL, he runs what he calls a “hyper-efficient, hyper-focused” solo practice. With 60 clients, $60M in assets, and a net payout that well-exceeds that of his time at Edward Jones, he’s proven that independence isn’t just about size: It’s about control, choice, and building a business aligned with your life.

In this episode, Jason Diamond dives into Steve’s story, including:

• The limitations he experienced at Edward Jones—and the tangible things he can now do for his clients and business as an independent.
• The options he considered—and why he passed on a lucrative W-2 recruiting deal.
• The process of transitioning out of Edward Jones—and why independence with LPL was the right path.
• The real value of freedom—and how it was reshaped both his practice and his perspective.
• Creating a business that aligns with his lifestyle—and why that was not possible at the firm.

It’s an honest look at life after the W-2 world and how one advisor built a business that works smarter, not harder, with relevant takeaways for advisors at all levels.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesPost-Transition Survey: Checking in on Former Edward Jones Advisors Who Recently Moved
Unfiltered, fresh, candid, and honest feedback straight from your Edward Jones peers who transitioned to another firm or model within the past 18 months.

The Advisor Transition Playbook: Inside Baseball on Due Diligence, the Move, and Everything In Between
From due diligence to culture fit, client communication to deal evaluation, there’s far more to moving than meets the eye. In this special Industry Update, Jason and Mindy unpack the real playbook behind advisor transitions – the triggers, misconceptions, and timelines – plus lessons from the recent $129B Merrill breakaway that prove why no advisor is “too big” for change.

Wealth Management Landscape at a Glance
The wealth management industry offers more options than ever, making it challenging to identify and compare the various models. We created this “at a glance” continuum infographic—to help you navigate the different models and understand how their features stack up.

Steve Davis
Founder and CEO

Steve Davis is the founder and CEO of Madison & Elm Wealth Management. Steve is a Certified Financial Planner (CFP®) with over 14 years of experience supporting clients in pursuing their financial goals. He meets with clients in-person or virtually, partnering with them and proactively sharing his expertise in order to help maximize their opportunities. He has the support of a team of professionals at LPL Financial who are specifically equipped to handle the sophisticated needs of higher net worth clients.

As a former Division I athlete, Steve brings the same focus and dedication to his clients that allowed him to excel on the baseball field. Steve grew up in Cincinnati, Ohio, before attending Kent State University on an athletic and academic scholarship. After graduating magna cum laude with a degree in finance and entrepreneurship, he spent two years as an equity trader. He has been serving clients nationwide ever since. Steve lives with his wife and three children in the western suburbs of Chicago.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Adam Malamed—CEO, Sanctuary WealthHosted by Louis DiamondOverviewSupportive independence has become one of the most dynamic segments of wealth management, offering advisors the freedom of independence with the scale and resources of a major firm. In this episode, the CEO of Sanctuary Wealth joins Louis Diamond to discuss Sanctuary 2.0: how the firm doubled in size, its vision for advisor autonomy, and the future of growth, technology, and partnership in the independent space.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Advisors considering independence often wrestle with a key question: “Do I want to go it alone—or have the backing of a platform?”

That question gave rise to the concept of supportive independence—one of the most dynamic corners of the wealth management ecosystem. It bridges the gap between the turnkey structure of the wirehouses and the full autonomy of running your own RIA. The model offers ownership and freedom while surrounding teams with the infrastructure, technology, and expertise to accelerate growth and achieve scale. And it comes with an added advantage: a community built on accessible leadership and shared talent.

It’s in this space that Sanctuary Wealth has carved out its niche. Since its founding, Sanctuary has become a top destination for elite wirehouse teams seeking greater freedom and control—without giving up the benefits of scale.

With CEO Adam Malamed at the helm, the firm has entered what he calls “Sanctuary 2.0”—a new era of growth, innovation, and partnership designed to help advisors not only transition successfully but thrive long after the move.

Building on his experience scaling Ladenburg Thalmann into a multi-billion-dollar enterprise, Adam is now leading Sanctuary into its next chapter with a sharp focus on growth, technology, and long-term sustainability. In just two years, he has helped the firm nearly double in size, expanded its reach through the acquisition of Tru Independence, and solidified its standing as one of the industry’s most compelling platforms for elite advisors.

In this episode, Louis Diamond and Adam discuss:

• How Sanctuary doubled in size—and why its growth strategy continues to resonate with elite advisors.
• The balance of autonomy and support—and what makes Sanctuary’s formula work.
• Advisors’ long-term goals—and how the firm continues adding value well beyond the transition.
• The future of wealth management—and how technology, data, and AI are reshaping the platform.
• Sanctuary’s long-term strategy—and how succession planning, equity monetization, and access to capital remain central components.

It’s a candid look at where one of the fastest-growing firms is headed and the value it offers advisors seeking a path to independence.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesMindset Shift: Why Advisors are Forgoing a Recruiting Deal and Leaping Right to Independence6 reasons why more advisors are choosing to bet on themselves before monetizing their businesses.

Firms That Win in 2025: What Advisors Are Really Looking ForWith advisor expectations evolving, not all “good firms” are winning the talent. Mindy and Louis Diamond share what today’s top advisors really value—and why some firms are standing out while others fall short.

Wealth Management Landscape at a GlanceThe wealth management industry offers more options than ever, making it challenging to identify and compare the various models. We created this “at a glance” continuum infographic—to help you navigate the different models and understand how their features stack up.

Alan Malamed
Chief Executive Officer

Adam Malamed is the Chief Executive Officer of Sanctuary Wealth, where he leads the firm’s strategic vision, long-term growth initiatives, and commitment to innovation in the wealth management industry. Since assuming the role in 2023, Adam has focused on building the platform of the future investing in top talent, advanced technology, and scalable growth resources. His mission is to drive value for Sanctuary’s Partner Firms by helping them grow, operate more efficiently and build equity.

Under Adam’s leadership, Sanctuary continues to solidify its position as the premier destination for sophisticated and elite financial advisors and wealth management firms. He oversees the firm’s long-term strategy with an emphasis on business expansion ensuring Sanctuary remains a leader in the Hybrid RIA space.

With over 25 years of experience in financial services, Adam is a seasoned executive, entrepreneur, and board director. Prior to joining Sanctuary, he served as Executive Vice President, Chief Operating Officer, and Board Director at publicly traded Ladenburg Thalmann Financial, where he was instrumental in growing the firm’s revenue from $35 million to $1.5 billion.

Adam earned a B.A. in Business Management from the University of Massachusetts Amherst and completed the General Management Program at Harvard Business School.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

A Special Industry Update, With Jason Diamond and Mindy DiamondOverviewFrom due diligence to culture fit, client communication to deal evaluation, there’s far more to moving than meets the eye in this special Industry Update.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Everything about a transition can seem incredibly overwhelming.

From understanding “the why’s” of a move, then conducting due diligence, and on to aligning the right models, and selecting the best firms, it might seem like a fairly linear process.

And for some it can be.

But for others, the layers of minutiae can be daunting.

Essentially, it comes down to the adage, “You don’t know what you don’t know.”

In this episode, Jason Diamond is joined by Mindy, to fill in some of those blanks and share some inside baseball on how to get from here to there, including:

• The main triggers that drive an advisor to consider a move—and why it’s typically not about frustration.
• The biggest misconceptions about change—and what most advisors say after they’ve transitioned.
• Conducting due diligence—and what key pieces of information you need to gather in the process.
• Assessing culture—and how to really get a sense of what a firm stands for.
• Transition deals—and how to identify if they are indeed a gift or a trap.
• The timeline of a move—and how long it really takes from exploration to transition.
• Communicating with teams and clients—and what you can or can’t do, and when.

Plus, they add context to their advice by drawing from experience gained in the recent $129B Merrill breakaway move.

Essentially, it’s a download of “everything you need to know when considering a move.”

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe $129B Blockbuster Move: Shirl Penney on Why This Transition Marks a New Era for the IndustryThe $129B OpenArc breakaway marks a watershed moment for wealth management. In this Rapid Reaction episode, Louis Diamond and Shirl Penney unpack what it means for the RIA model, advisors, and the future of industry competition.

The Missing Narrative of the $129B Merrill Breakaway StoryThe largest (and quite possibly most significant) advisor breakaway in industry history made news this week. Yet instead of leading with the scale or significance of the move, headlines centered on Merrill’s lawsuit alleging corporate raiding.

Transition Announcement: $129B Merrill Team Launches OpenArc Corporate Advisory with Support from Dynasty, Schwab, and Diamond Consultants
We’re proud to share that one of the industry’s largest and most decorated advisor teams has launched OpenArc Corporate Advisory, a new national firm based in Atlanta, GA. It’s a hallmark transition from Merrill, with more than a decade of consulting and guidance from Diamond Consultants.

View Details

With Shirl Penney—President and CEO, Dynasty Financial Partners, Hosted by Louis DiamondOverviewThe $129B OpenArc breakaway marks a watershed moment for wealth management. In this Rapid Reaction episode, Louis Diamond and Shirl Penney unpack what it means for the RIA model, advisors, and the future of industry competition.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…When the news broke that a team managing $129B in client assets left Merrill to launch OpenArc Corporate Advisory, the headlines focused on the sheer scale of the move—and the ensuing legal firestorm. However, this transition represents even more: a defining moment for the independent wealth management movement and a demonstration of the industry’s evolving landscape.

For years, independence has been steadily chipping away at wirehouse dominance. Yet OpenArc is proof that even the most elite and institutionally focused advisor teams see greater opportunity in starting their own firm.

That’s where Dynasty Financial Partners comes in. Under Shirl Penney’s leadership, Dynasty has become synonymous with enabling large, complex teams to make the leap to independence, providing the scale, capital, and infrastructure needed to compete at the very top of the industry.

And with OpenArc, Dynasty has helped one of the biggest breakaways launch a new enterprise built for the future.

Yet getting the team to this moment was a decade in the making, with Mindy Diamond and Louis Diamond guiding the growing team through an educational journey on an ever-changing landcsape of possibilities.

In this special Rapid Reaction episode, Louis and Shirl offer their perspectives on:

• Why the OpenArc deal is such a watershed moment.
• What it signals about the evolution of the RIA model and the industry at large.
• How it may influence other large teams contemplating their own futures.

They also highlight key learnings for advisors watching this transition closely—and what it reveals about the next chapter of industry competition.

It’s a rare inside look at a landmark deal in wealth management—and the insights it offers for advisors and firms across the industry.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesTransition Announcement: $129B Merrill Team Launches OpenArc Corporate Advisory with Support from Dynasty, Schwab, and Diamond Consultants
It’s a hallmark transition from Merrill, with more than a decade of consulting and guidance from Diamond Consultants.

Transition Announcement: $5.5B UBS Mega-Team Leaves for RBC
One of the top teams in the industry, led by the largest female advisor at UBS, Leslie Lauer, moves to RBC Wealth Management.

Shirl Penney
President and CEO

Shirl Penney is the founder, CEO, and member of the Board of Directors of Dynasty Financial Partners, one of the leading advocates and platforms for independent wealth advisor firms. Since its launch in 2010, Dynasty has grown to nearly $115B assets under management.

Shirl is recognized throughout the industry for his thought leadership and insight on key trends and issues impacting the rapidly evolving wealth management landscape. Investment News named him to its 2015 list of ‘40 Most Influential People in Wealth Management Under 40,’ as well as to its inaugural list of ‘Icons and Innovators in Wealth Management’ the following year.

In 2019, Dynasty relocated from New York, NY, to St. Petersburg, Florida, and Shirl quickly became a leading voice in the city’s business community, embracing local causes and giving back to organizations serving the area where Dynasty employees live and work. In 2023, he was named ‘Florida Entrepreneur of the Year,’ and in 2024 the Tampa Bay Business Journal selected him for its ‘Power 100 List’ of the area’s most influential business leaders.

Prior to Dynasty, Shirl worked at Citi Smith Barney in various leadership roles including director of private wealth management and head of executive financial services.

Shirl is from Eastport, Maine, and graduated from Bates College. He and his family live in St. Petersburg where they are active in numerous charitable causes focused on education, poverty, ALS, and veteran services. He is a Fellow of the inaugural class of the Finance Leaders Fellowship, a member of the Aspen Global Leadership Network, and a member of the Young President’s Organization of Florida.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With John Krambeer, Founder and CEO, Validus CapitalOverviewFew advisors build a multi-billion-dollar RIA. John Krambeer has done it twice. In this candid conversation, the Validus Capital CEO reflects on his journey, how independence has evolved, and the hard-won lessons that guide him now.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Some advisors break away once in their careers. John Krambeer has done it twice, each time building a multi-billion-dollar RIA.

That kind of repeated success is rare in any industry—and in wealth management, it’s almost unheard of. Yet John’s journey provides a front-row seat to the evolution of the independent space, from its early pioneering days to the sophisticated and bespoke multi-family office models we see today.

Long before “going independent” became popular, John left Merrill’s Private Banking & Investment Group (PBIG) in 2004 to launch Camden Capital. He was early to the RIA movement, betting on transparency, better reporting, and access to private investments when few advisors dared to break away and forge their own path.

In 2022, John made the difficult decision to leave Camden and do it all over again—this time building Validus Capital, now a $2.5B multi-family office designed with hard-earned lessons in mind.

In this conversation with Louis Diamond, John shares a candid look at:

• What it was like to break away in the early 2000s—and how platforms and support for independents have evolved since.
• Why he walked away from the first firm he built—and what drove him to take on the challenge a second time.
• The choices behind building Validus Capital today—and the firm’s approach to private markets and family office services.
• The hard lessons of growth—and what he wishes he had done differently the first time around.

John runs back the game films to provide candid insights for prospective and current independent business owners. It’s a rare opportunity to learn from someone who not only helped shape the independent space but has proven that with clarity, conviction, and the right people, you can build lasting success more than once.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe Best of the Best: 10 Ways Top Advisors Are Growing Their Businesses— A Special Industry UpdateA “Top 10” list of firm-level innovations and grassroots methodologies from some of the most successful advisors, teams, and firm in the business. Listen in to spark ideas designed to drive greater growth.

Player or Coach? Why Every Advisor Eventually Has to ChooseAs advisory firms grow, founders often face a critical inflection point: double down on being a top producer or evolve into a leader who builds lasting enterprise value.

Wealth Management Landscape at a GlanceThe wealth management industry offers more options than ever, making it challenging to identify and compare the various models. We created this “at a glance” continuum infographic—to help you navigate the different models and understand how their features stack up.

John M. KrambeerCEO & Founder

John Krambeer is the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Validus Capital and has served as a financial advisor to wealthy families and institutional investors for over three decades. Mr. Krambeer has extensive experience providing wealthy families with strategic investment advice, structuring portfolios to meet long-term objectives, and creating private investment vehicles across the alternatives landscape. Mr. Krambeer has spent his career working with both traditional and alternative investment managers, evaluating asset allocation strategies, managing long-term equity portfolios, and implementing options strategies for concentrated stock positions. Mr. Krambeer has been recognized by Barron’s as a Top 100 Independent Wealth Advisor four times and as one of America’s Top Financial Advisors seven times.

Prior to founding Validus Capital, Mr. Krambeer founded Camden Capital in 2004 and served as its Chief Executive Officer and Partner. He led the firm’s investing activities and established its private fund platform. Before forming Camden Capital, Mr. Krambeer spent 16 years at Merrill Lynch, where he helped build the Private Banking and Investment Group.

Mr. Krambeer is a member of the Advisory Board of FrontRange Capital Partners, Saybrook Fund Advisors, NewRoad Capital Partners, and Rosemawr Management. He is active in the community, supporting various philanthropic organizations, including serving as the Founder and President of the Southern California Rodeo Boosters, an organization devoted to helping junior high and high school students competing in the sport of Rodeo with scholarship support as they transition to college. Mr. Krambeer was an inaugural member of the Schwab Institutional Advisory Council for Advisors Turning Independent (ATI) – a sounding board for firms transitioning to independence in the evolving wealth management industry. Mr. Krambeer received a Bachelor of Science in Finance from Woodbury University.

Recognition

• Barron’s Top Wealth Managers 2014 – 2020, 2024-2025
• Forbes/Shook Best in State Wealth Advisor 2025
• Forbes/Shook America’s Top RIA Firms 2024
• LA Times Visionaries 2021
• LA Business Journal Leaders of Influence 2020 – 2021

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Mike Durbin, CEO of Cetera Financial GroupOverviewThe CEO of Cetera Financial Group shares insights on independence, private equity, and balancing scale with service, plus what the future holds for advisors and firms.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…The wealth management industry is at an inflection point—where scale, service, and strategy all collide.

Drawing on 35 years of industry experience and leadership roles at Morgan Stanley, Fidelity, and now Cetera, Mike Durbin offers a unique perspective on the forces shaping the world as we know it.

Since joining Cetera in 2023, Mike’s led the firm through rapid expansion—balancing the resources of a $600B+ national platform with a boutique-level advisor experience. From multi-channel affiliation models to tech and AI integration, his strategy centers on one thing: helping advisors grow faster, smarter, and more sustainably.

In this episode, Jason Diamond and Mike discuss:

• The future of independent wealth management—and how it stacks up against the wirehouse model.
• Cetera’s differentiators in today’s competitive recruiting environment—and why its “big feel, small approach” matters.
• The role of technology and AI—and how they’re driving efficiency, personalization, and advisor capacity.
• Private equity’s influence on the industry landscape—and what it means for long-term strategy.
• Lessons from leadership roles at Morgan Stanley and Fidelity—and how those experiences shape his vision at Cetera.
• Where the biggest opportunities lie ahead for advisors—and what excites him most about the next decade.

Whether you’re an advisor evaluating your options or a leader navigating change, Mike’s candid perspective provides clarity on what it takes to thrive in today’s environment.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesIBD vs. RIA Revisited: Two Independent Pathways for Advisors to Consider
When it comes to freedom and control, there are key differences amongst the independent broker dealer (IBD) and registered investment advisor (RIA) spaces that every advisor should be aware of.

RIA, IBD or somewhere in between: Which version of independence is right for you?
As the independent space continues to expand, prospective breakaway advisors often have a hard time deciding between different individual models and options. These 5 questions can help point you in the right direction.

Disclaimer: This material is for informational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice, a recommendation, or an offer to buy or sell any security. Opinions may change without notice. Forward-looking statements, including projections or estimates, are not guarantees. Past performance is not indicative of future results, and all investing involves risk, including loss of principal.

“Cetera Financial Group” refers to the network of independent retail firms encompassing, among others, Cetera Advisors LLC, Cetera Wealth Services LLC (f/k/a Cetera Advisor Networks), Cetera Investment Services LLC (marketed as Cetera Financial Institutions or Cetera Investors), and Cetera Financial Specialists LLC. All firms are members Member FINRA/SIPC.

Mike Durbin
Chief Executive Officer

Mike Durbin is chief executive officer of Cetera Financial Group and a member of Cetera’s board of directors. In his role as CEO, he oversees Cetera’s growth initiatives, from expansion into new and adjacent markets to evolving Cetera’s existing capabilities for the financial professionals and financial institutions it serves.

Most recently, Mike was head of Fidelity Institutional, a division of Fidelity Investments offering clearing, custody, investment products, brokerage, and trading services to a wide range of wealth management firms and institutions. In this role, Mike was responsible for supporting the growth of clients’ businesses, enhancing their operational efficiency while delivering insights that help to drive confidence, clarity, and results.

Previously, Mike served as head of Fidelity Institutional Investment and Technology Solutions where he focused on the end-to-end delivery of wealth management products and technology solutions for Fidelity clearing and custody clients. Prior to that role, he served as president of Fidelity Wealth Technologies, where he oversaw Fidelity’s acquisition of eMoney Advisor. He joined Fidelity in February 2009 as president of Fidelity Institutional Wealth Services where he was responsible for the oversight and growth of the business by providing clients access to a flexible, open-technology environment, extensive practice management resources and wealth management investments, and related execution and custody services.

Prior to joining Fidelity, Mike acted as chief operating officer of the National Sales Division for Morgan Stanley’s Global Wealth Management. During his 18-year tenure with Morgan Stanley, he held various leadership positions, including head of Capital Markets, head of International Private Wealth Management and chief strategic and risk officer for the Global Individual Investor Group. Mike joined the firm in 1990, then titled Dean Witter Reynolds, Inc., in the investment banking field. In his initial roles, he was involved with the origination, structuring, and marketing of packaged investments for private client distribution.

Education

• Leonard N. Stern School of Business at New York University, MBA
• University of Notre Dame, BBA, Finance and Economics

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Jason Diamond and Louis DiamondOverviewA special mid-year update with Jason and Louis Diamond on deals, transitions, and recruiting trends shaping 2025—and what advisors can expect in the months ahead.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…If you’re an advisor wondering what the second half of 2025 might hold, the first six months already tell a compelling story.

From headline-making transitions to evolving deal structures, the pace of movement so far suggests 2025 is shaping up to be one of the most competitive years yet.

That’s why we’re releasing this special mid-year update: to share what the data is telling us about the recruiting landscape as it stands today, and what we expect for the balance of the year.

In this episode, Jason Diamond and Louis Diamond dig into:

• What the movement numbers are showing, particularly at the wirehouses.
• How deals are shaping up across the industry.
• What external forces could trigger a shift in activity.
• How firms might adjust their recruiting strategies and deal structures over the coming months.
• What some of the top moves of the first half of the year might be indicating.

Jason and Louis also answer the overarching question: Will the momentum continue?

Whether you’re planning your next move, refining your recruiting strategy, or just keeping a pulse on the competitive landscape, this mid-year update will give you the clarity and context you need—so be sure to listen in.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesMerrill Advisor Transition Report
This “firm-focused report” look under the hood at movement to and from Merrill in the first half of 2025.

The 2025 Annual Report on Transitions and Deals for Financial Advisors – 2024 Activity DataData-driven insights and analysis on advisor transitions, deals, and the evolving wealth management industry landscape.

Wealth Management Landscape At-A-GlanceThe wealth management industry offers more options than ever, making it challenging to identify and compare the various models. We created this “at-a-glance” continuum infographic—to help you navigate the different models and understand how their features stack up.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Julia Healey, CEO of United CharitableOverviewJulia Healey, CEO of United Charitable, shares insights on DAFs, their value to clients, and the potential positive impact they can have on an advisor’s business.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…This episode serves as both an educational session and a business development strategy around Donor Advised Funds, or DAFs.

You’ve likely heard of them, maybe even worked with one—but chances are, you’re not maximizing their potential.

Because DAFs aren’t just for high net worth and ultra-high net worth clients. And while they offer a philanthropic path for clients’ wealth, the value goes well beyond.

When used correctly, DAFs can help strengthen client relationships, attract new assets, and create a genuine sense of impact and purpose for clients at all wealth levels.

Julia Healey knows this space inside and out. As the CEO of United Charitable, she works with financial advisors and clients every day to unlock the full value of DAFs—not just from a tax and estate planning perspective, but from a relationship and growth perspective, too.

In this episode, we cover:

• How DAFs actually work—and what makes them so accessible.
• The biggest misconceptions—and why they’re not just for the mega-wealthy.
• How advisors are using them to differentiate—and build trust.
• The value of working with a firm like United Charitable—and how they help financial advisors make a greater impact with their clients.
• And what it looks like when you give clients a real path to be a philanthropist.

Whether you’re new to the concept or looking to refine how you present DAFs, this episode offers a practical, insightful take on an often-overlooked tool.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesInnovative Ways the Best Independent Firms Fuel Growth: A Special Industry Update
Independence allows advisors to create an unlimited menu of innovative value-add services for their clients. And as the industry landscape expands, employee advisors are finding ways to get in on the action. Learn specific examples of the various services offered by some of the industry’s leading independent firms.

The Best of the Best: 10 Ways Top Advisors Are Growing Their Businesses
A “Top 10” list of firm-level innovations and grassroots methodologies from some of the most successful advisors, teams, and firm in the business. Listen in to spark ideas designed to drive greater growth.

The Power of the Midyear Gut Check: A Playbook for Clarity and MomentumIt’s the perfect time for advisors to set up the second half of the year for success.

Julia Healey
CEO

Julia Healey is the Chief Executive Officer of United Charitable, a nonprofit dedicated to supporting philanthropic efforts through donor-advised funds and fiscally sponsored programs. With a background in finance and accounting, she earned a B.S. in Business Administration, an MBA in Finance, and a Nonprofit Management Executive Certificate from Georgetown University.

Though she began her career path in finance, Julia’s direction shifted after witnessing firsthand the inequities in access to education and resources. Inspired to make a difference, she combined her financial expertise with a deep commitment to social impact—ultimately leading her into the nonprofit world.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Ben Valore-Caplan, Founder of SyntrinsicOverviewBen Valore-Caplan, founder of Syntrinsic, shares how he built a $2.9B mission-driven RIA to serve foundations, endowments, and values-driven institutions, the evolution of impact and ESG investing, why he sold to IMA Financial Group, and more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…This episode serves as a powerful reminder that the best businesses are built not just on scale, but on intention and alignment with values.

In a landscape where most RIAs are designed to serve wealthy individuals, Ben Valore-Caplan took a different path—one rooted in advising non-profits with a focus on mission and purpose.

After a decade as an educator and nonprofit entrepreneur, Ben entered the wealth management world at UBS’s predecessor Paine Webber. As an institutional consultant, Ben saw an opportunity to become a bridge between the finance and nonprofit sectors. Yet, as he looked more closely at the conflicts embedded in the wirehouse model, he saw a greater opportunity to build something better: an RIA fully aligned with institutional clients’ missions.

So, in 2008, Ben left the wirehouse world to launch Syntrinsic Investment Counsel—an RIA built to serve foundations, endowments, and values-driven institutions. What started as a niche business has since grown into a $2.9B firm, known for its conflict-free model and deep alignment with client missions.

In this conversation with Louis Diamond, Ben shares the story of Syntrinsic’s growth – from launch to sale – including:

• Leaving UBS to launch an RIA—and how that allowed him to serve institutional clients in a differentiated way.
• Mission-aligned investing—and how it has evolved beyond environmental, social, and governance (ESG).
• Philanthropy and nonprofit investments—and what strategies are applicable to all advisors.
• Mastering scale—and how to do so without compromising purpose or culture.
• The decision to sell the firm to IMA Financial Group in 2023—and what made that cultural fit work.

Whether you’re focused on growth, purpose, or both, Ben’s story is a valuable reminder that building a great firm isn’t just about scale: It’s about clarity, intention, and doing the work that matters.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe Best of the Best: 10 Ways Top Advisors Are Growing Their Businesses— A Special Industry UpdateA “Top 10” list of firm-level innovations and grassroots methodologies from some of the most successful advisors, teams, and firm in the business. Listen in to spark ideas designed to drive greater growth.

Top Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a MoveWhether you’re just exploring what’s out there or actively conducting due diligence, these insights will help you position your business and team for success, whenever the time is right.

Is Scale a Necessary Evil in Wealth Management?Scale can provide a competitive advantage. Yet there might be scenarios in which bigger isn’t always better.

Ben Valore-CaplanFounder and Co-President

Throughout his career, Ben has built bridges between seemingly disparate groups. Since 2000, he has connected the nonprofit and finance sectors as an investment advisor and strategic partner to foundations, endowments, nonprofit organizations, and the people affiliated with them.

Ben founded Syntrinsic Investment Counsel in 2008 after serving as Senior Vice President of Investments at UBS where he led the BVC Institutional Consulting Group. In 2023, Syntrinsic joined IMA Financial Group to gain efficiency and deepen impact across the country. At Syntrinsic, Ben serves as Co-President where he runs point on several client relationships and co-leads the firm’s long-term strategy. Syntrinsic advises on $2.9 billion in assets across approximately 60 foundations and endowments and a handful of private client households.

Ben also builds bridges through community engagement. In his first career, he was an educator and social entrepreneur. He founded and directed Denver Summerbridge, an academically rigorous educational opportunity program for first generation college bound students that continues to thrive over 30 years later as Breakthrough Kent Denver.

Ben served as an independent trustee, investment committee member, and Vice Chair for Colorado’s $50+ billion Public Employee’s Retirement Association (PERA). He served for several years on the Advisory Committee to the City of Denver’s $5 billion fund. He is on the board and chairs the finance committee of Challenge Foundation and serves on the board and finance committee of Denver Zoo and Conservation Alliance. Ben is a proud member of the Colorado Forum, a nonpartisan organization of community leaders committed to advancing creative, long-term solutions to challenging civic issues. He was selected as the Conscious Business Leader of 2019 by Conscious Company.

Ben earned his BA from Brown University and MBA from the University of Denver. He and his wife, Amie, have four children.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Cary Carbonaro, Managing Wealth Advisor and Women & Wealth Ambassador at Ashton ThomasOverviewCary Carbonaro learned from her own experience that there was both a gap and an opportunity in attracting and retaining women clients and advisors. In this episode, Cary shares specific advice on what firms are doing wrong and how they can get it right.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…In our world, most firms are focused on growth. However, they often overlook one of the biggest and most significant opportunities: women.

That includes women as clients, who are expected to control two-thirds of all wealth over the next decade. It also includes women as advisors, who remain significantly underrepresented in the industry.

Cary Carbonaro has made it her mission to positively impact the world of women when it comes to advice and representation in the wealth management world.

Cary’s extensive career includes leadership roles at ACM Wealth, Goldman Sachs, where she served as Vice President and Head of Office, and United Capital, where she founded and led the Women’s Leadership division.

Today, with a client base that’s more than 75% women, Cary has built a $300mm advisory business at Ashton Thomas, focusing on empathy, education, and empowerment.

She has also been an outspoken advocate as the Women and Wealth Ambassador for the firm and in the media, advising on how to support women in wealth and how to move from recruiting slogans to real change.

In this episode, Cary and Mindy Diamond discuss:

• Cary’s personal journey from the wirehouse world to independence—and how her experience influences her work.
• The opportunity in serving women clients—and what firms should be doing differently to win in this market.
• The gap in attracting and retaining women advisors—and how to build a practice that excels with top talent.
• What advisors often get wrong about “selling” to women—and how to fix it.
• And how authenticity and advocacy can drive both purpose and growth

Cary’s success story is one that resonates with advisors on many levels, and her mission is one we can all get behind—and learn from.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesFinding the Shortest Path to Excellence Can Be a Game Changer for AdvisorsDoing everything you can to deliver better service, drive growth, and achieve your goals faster can result in extraordinary benefits.

Firms That Win in 2025: What Advisors Are Really Looking For
With advisor expectations evolving, not all “good firms” are winning the talent. Mindy and Louis Diamond share what today’s top advisors really value—and why some firms are standing out while others fall short.

Wealth Management Landscape at a Glance
This “at-a-glance” continuum infographic—to help you navigate the different models and understand how their features stack up.

Cary Carbonaro
Managing Wealth Advisor and Women and Wealth Ambassador

Cary Carbonaro is an award-winning Certified Financial Planner™ professional with over 25 years of experience, and currently serves as Managing Wealth Advisor and Women and Wealth Ambassador for Ashton Thomas. She leads a multimillion-dollar financial planning practice, specializing in empowering women to overcome financial challenges and increase their financial literacy.

Cary’s extensive career includes leadership roles at ACM Wealth, Goldman Sachs where she was Vice President and Head of Office, and United Capital where she founded and led the Women’s Leadership division. At United Capital, she earned titles such as Diamond Office Winner, Managing Director, Partner, Voice of Women, FinLife Coach, and MVP.

Cary is the author of the bestselling book The Money Queen’s Guide: For Women Who Want to Build Wealth and Banish Fear, Morgan James, Oct 2015. Cary’s second book. Women and Wealth: A Playbook To Empower Clients and Unlock Their Fortune, published by Wiley April 29, 2025. It was #1 New Release in Wealth Management, Economics and Business Finance.

She serves as a CFP® Board Ambassador, representing the financial industry in the media, and has been honored six times on Investopedia’s Top 100 Financial Advisors list. In 2016, she was awarded the prestigious Investment News Women to Watch recognition. In 2024, Cary was appointed as the first female member of the Nasdaq Advisor Council. She has also endowed a scholarship at the State University of New York at Cortland for Women in Business, where she was the founding president of Sigma Delta Tau sorority.

Cary is the founding president of the Women’s Giving Alliance, a giving circle in the South Lake Community Foundation, and a member of the Benefactors Circle at the Center for Financial Planning, where she advocates for advancing women in the financial industry.

Cary’s knowledge and expertise are highly sought after, and she frequently appears as a commentator on local and national television news channels. She has spoken around the world on financial literacy, with a focus on advocating for women and guiding them to financial empowerment.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Louis Diamond & Mindy DiamondOverviewWith advisor expectations evolving, not all “good firms” are winning the talent. Mindy and Louis Diamond share what today’s top advisors really value—and why some firms are standing out while others fall short.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…With so many firms competing for top talent, the question isn’t whether advisors have options—it’s how they choose and why.

That is, it really comes down to what distinguishes a “good firm” from the one that actually wins the talent.

Because the reality is that advisor expectations have changed. What used to be considered best-in-class is now often table stakes. Today’s winners provide clarity, consistency, flexibility—and a value proposition that meets advisors where they are.

In this special Industry Update, Louis Diamond and Mindy Diamond share their view of the market—what advisors are telling us they value most, what’s become commoditized, and which firms are truly winning the attention and trust of top talent.

They discuss:

• Why more firms are starting to look – and feel – the same.
• What’s changed in advisor expectations over the last decade.
• The “deal breakers” we see after a transition.
• Why some firms excel in one area but fall short in others.
• What the ideal firm of the future might look like if you built it from scratch.
• And much more.

Whether you’re simply curious how the landscape is shifting, considering a move, or leading a firm, this episode is designed to give you a clear and candid snapshot of what’s working, what’s not, and what might be coming next.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe Gears of Change: How Evolving Expectations of 3 Key Stakeholders is Driving More Advisor Movement Than Ever BeforeFinancial advisors are seeking greener pastures that offer the ability to achieve something better for themselves and their clients.

Is Your Firm Ready to Attract and Secure Top Talent?Take this quick quiz to evaluate your executive search preparedness.

The Best of the Best: 10 Ways Top Advisors Are Growing Their BusinessesA “Top 10” list of firm-level innovations and grassroots methodologies from some of the most successful advisors, teams, and firm in the business. Listen in to spark ideas designed to drive greater growth.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Brian Pultman – Founder and CEO, Correct Capital Wealth ManagementOverviewBrian Pultman discusses why he chose independence over taking a wirehouse transition deal. However, as he candidly shares, building your own RIA is not always a smooth process, yet it resulted in aligning his values while building $1B+ Correct Capital Wealth Management.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…There are plenty of stories about advisors going independent, but few are as honest, candid, or humble as this one.

After more than 25 years at Wells Fargo, Brian Pultman made the leap to independence—not because he was chasing a big check or a headline deal, but because he knew his values no longer aligned with the firm. What followed was anything but easy. Like many founders, Brian faced a rocky transition, long hours, tough decisions, and moments of real uncertainty.

However, in the process, Brian discovered something even more valuable: clarity. Clarity about the kind of business he wanted to build, the kind of leader he wanted to be, and what really mattered most to him as an advisor.

In this episode, Brian shares his journey with Jason Diamond, including:

• The transition from wirehouse to independence—and what it really takes to get from here to there.
• The process of starting over—and why, after decades in the business, Brian was open to doing so.
• The things that really matter most—and how that realization shaped his decision process.
• The power of leaning into education—and what he found to be the most powerful resources.
• Building a billion-dollar firm—and how his leap to independence fueled that growth.

It’s a conversation about building in-house vs. outsourcing, about making intentional decisions, and about how every day in this business is a chance to get better—both for your clients and yourself. And above all, it’s a reminder that growth isn’t just about numbers: it’s about aligning your business with your values and creating something that reflects who you are.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe Power of the Midyear Gut Check: A Playbook for Clarity and MomentumIt’s the perfect time for advisors to set up the second half of the year for success.

Limitless Growth: Building the Business You Want and the Life to MatchStephanie Bogan, founder of Limitless Advisor, offers a glimpse into the advice and perspective she shares with advisors and business leaders in the wealth management world, focusing on mindset and methods, and their relationship to achieving one’s best business life.

Wealth Management Landscape At-A-GlanceThe wealth management industry offers more options than ever, making it challenging to identify and compare the various models. We created this “at-a-glance” continuum infographic—to help you navigate the different models and understand how their features stack up.

Brian I. Pultman
Founder & CEO

As the founder of Correct Capital Wealth Management, Brian has had the honor and privilege of being a trusted advisor to families, institutions, and corporations for over 30 years. Brian not only brings decades of experience and knowledge in wealth management but provides access to his vast network of relationships and resources to connect and help individuals succeed.

“I never take for granted the trust and friendship our valued clients extend to us – it’s a privilege.”

Starting in 1993, Brian worked at A.G. Edwards, which later became Wells Fargo Advisors. He is a National “Top 1200 Advisor” (received in 2024) as ranked by Barron’s Magazine, and is ranked as a Small Business Monthly “Best Wealth Managers in St. Louis” (received in 2024). When working with clients, Brian strives to serve as his clients’ advocate by focusing on their individual goals and objectives and making recommendations accordingly.

Outside of Correct Capital, Brian is called upon for leadership and is passionate about giving back in the St. Louis community. He is an Executive Board member of the St. Louis Men’s Group Against Cancer and Executive Board Member of the Jewish Community Center. He is consistently recognized as a supporter of Pedal the Cause, Multiple Sclerosis Society, and is a member of the Eagle Scout Association.

Around St. Louis, you might find Brian running or biking in Forest Park, or taking morning swims at the J. He enjoys competing in triathlons and traveling – his favorite memory is climbing Machu Picchu with his family in Peru.

Brian is a lifetime resident of St. Louis and lives with his wife Mindy, in Clayton. Their daughter, Sydney, and son, Sam, are professionals in Chicago.

Brian earned his B.S. in Business Administration from University of Missouri-Columbia. As an extension of his desire to serve clients, Brian has a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ certification. To earn the CFP® designation, Brian had to complete an approved educational program, pass a rigorous examination and meet stringent experience requirements. Brian also adheres to a professional Code of Ethics and he fulfills annual continuing education requirements to remain aware of current planning strategies and financial trends.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Stephanie Bogan – Founder, Limitless AdvisorOverviewStephanie Bogan, founder of Limitless Advisor, offers a glimpse into the advice and perspective she shares with advisors and business leaders in the wealth management world, focusing on mindset and methods, and their relationship to achieving one’s best business life.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…In the wealth management world, growth is typically measured in hard numbers, such as assets, revenue, and headcount. Yet, the most successful advisors are those who define growth more holistically, designing their businesses around the lives they want to live, rather than the other way around.

Yet there’s a certain reality that many advisors are experiencing, such as burnout, blurred boundaries, and growth that doesn’t always feel fulfilling—and the struggle between building a business and living a balanced life has become much more common.

Stephanie Bogan, the founder of Limitless Advisor and one of the most respected voices in advisor coaching, joins the show to address all that and more.

At 24, Stephanie built a consulting firm and sold it a dozen years later for seven figures. She joined the firm’s executive leadership team, playing a pivotal role in scaling their offerings to thousands of advisors. Then she left for the SVP role of Training and Client Experience at United Capital.

And if all that wasn’t enough, Stephanie made one of the most dramatic life shifts of all: She moved to Costa Rica to design the lifestyle she once only coached others to pursue.

Today, Stephanie works with advisors across the industry—helping them grow with greater freedom, clarity, intention, and purpose. She founded her successful practice on the belief that the key to greater success and happiness lies in mastering mindset and methods.

(And Stephanie’s impact in the wealth management world extends to clients like Michael Kitces and Louis Diamond!)

In this episode with Louis, Stephanie breaks down her philosophies, offering anecdotal evidence around each, including:

• The power of mindset—and how making one shift can transform how you work, lead, and live.
• Reframing negativity—and how certain strategies can help you transform adversity into positive paths.
• Avoiding burnout—and how to build a business that scales smartly without sacrificing your sanity.
• Plus, Stephanie reflects on her own journey, including the personal pivots that provided her with a clearer path forward—and how those lessons now shape her work with advisors.

Whether you’re considering a new path or looking at ways to refine your current trajectory, this conversation offers a powerful reminder that growth isn’t just about doing more—it’s about being more intentional with what you build.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesLeveraging the Power of Mindset to Enhance Your Wealth Management BusinessWithout the right mindset, it’s impossible to determine if where and how you practice is indeed best for you, your business, and your clients.

Self-Assessment for AdvisorsOur 7-Step Guided Process helps advisors navigate uncertainty with confidence. At its core is our trademarked Self-Assessment—a powerful tool to define your goals and start smart due diligence. Download a preview and take the first step toward your best business life.

The Best of the Best: 10 Ways Top Advisors Are Growing Their Businesses— A Special Industry UpdateA “Top 10” list of firm-level innovations and grassroots methodologies from some of the most successful advisors, teams, and firm in the business. Listen in to spark ideas designed to drive greater growth.

Stephanie Bogan
Founder

Stephanie Bogan is a recognized leader in the financial services industry with over 25 years of experience consulting and coaching top firms, thought leaders, and C-suite executives. At just 24, she founded her first consulting firm, which she sold 12 years later in a 7-figure deal to a Fortune 200 company. Joining their Executive Team, Stephanie played a pivotal role in integrating and scaling offerings across thousands of advisors.

Later, as SVP of Training and Client Experience at United Capital, she spearheaded the development of the national practice model, training center, and client experience, which were adopted by thousands of advisors and ultimately acquired by Goldman Sachs.

In 2014, despite her financial success, Stephanie retired to Costa Rica to explore a more fulfilling path. Her search led to profound insights about the science of behavior and mindset, shaping her belief that the key to greater success and happiness lies in mastering mindset plus methods.

As the founder of Limitless, Stephanie now empowers financial advisors and founders to create bigger, better futures on their terms. She is the author of The Power of Practice Management (Bloomberg Press), a regular contributor to leading publications such as Investment News, Financial Advisor, Kitces.com, and Advisor Perspectives, and a sought-after speaker in the industry.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Joel Guth Founder and CEO, Gryphon Financial PartnersOverviewJoel Guth shares how stepping out from under the Hightower umbrella to become a fully independent RIA opened up a new world of opportunity for his firm Gryphon Financial Partners. He shares how that transition allows them to create a $3B firm designed around turning client problems into opportunities.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…What does it really take to scale a business from a successful practice into a fully formed enterprise?

It’s not just about growth. It’s about clarity, intention, and evolving your mindset from advisor to leader.

And that’s exactly what this episode is about.

This episode’s guest, Joel Guth, made the leap from Morgan Stanley in 2014 to launch Gryphon Financial Partners under the Hightower umbrella. But a few years later, Joel recognized that he wanted even more control and greater access to products outside of the Hightower ecosystem.

So, in 2017, he and his team stepped away from Hightower to become fully independent—a move that reflected a deeper commitment to the kind of firm they wanted to build.

Since then, Gryphon has grown to manage more than $3B in client assets—with a structure, culture, and leadership model that reflects the journey from individual advisor to CEO.

In this episode, Joel talks with Louis Diamond about what that evolution has looked like over time, including:

The gaps in running the business under Hightower—and what he was specifically able to accomplish as a fully independent firm.

• The challenges of scaling—and how the role of leadership is to create greater efficiency and make everyone “better.”
• The importance of client segmentation—and how they strategically align their client service levels.
• Their approach to problem-solving—and how they built a culture that sees problems as opportunities.
• And what it really means to build a business that’s never for sale.

Whether you’re early in your journey or thinking about what comes next, Joel offers a thoughtful, real-world look at what it takes to grow with purpose—and how removing the right obstacles can open up your firm’s full potential.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesIs Scale a Necessary Evil in Wealth Management?Scale can provide a competitive advantage. Yet there might be scenarios in which bigger isn’t always better.

The Best of the Best: 10 Ways Top Advisors Are Growing Their Businesses— A Special Industry UpdateA “Top 10” list of firm-level innovations and grassroots methodologies from some of the most successful advisors, teams, and firm in the business. Listen in to spark ideas designed to drive greater growth.

The 2025 Annual Report on Transitions and Deals for Financial Advisors – 2024 Activity DataData-driven insights and analysis on advisor transitions, deals, and the evolving wealth management industry landscape.

Joel J. GuthCEO, Founder

Joel’s deep knowledge of complex financial markets, global economic landscapes and the M&A environment enhances his ability to advise clients regarding their specific investment strategies, appropriate asset allocation, cash flow planning, and estate planning needs. It is what has enabled him to successfully lead business owners, corporate executives, retirees, and families through their long-term financial plans. “The key,” he says, “is being able to reduce complex financial situations to simple and understandable terms while building consensus among differing opinions and working to define, plan for, and ultimately achieve sound financial goals.”

Joel’s true passion is developing lasting relationships with these successful, talented, hard-working, and philanthropic individuals. He admires that his clients have dedicated their working lives to acquiring substantial net worth, which they use to build their chosen legacies. Joel is dedicated to providing these clients with the assurance that comes from knowing their assets are being protected, while also employing strategies to grow their portfolios.

Immediately before founding Gryphon Financial Partners in May 2014, Joel was an Executive Director at Morgan Stanley. He began his career at Merrill Lynch.

Joel is an accomplished speaker, having appeared before the Ohio Bar Association, The Ohio Society of CPAs, various trade organizations, and numerous company programs. Since 2009, he has been named to the Barron’s America’s Top 1200 Financial Advisor list every year eligible. He has also been named to the Columbus Business First’s Ohio Top Advisor List, the Columbus C.E.O. Magazine’s Superstar List, and the Central Ohio Power List.

Joel graduated with a B.S. in Finance and Investment Management from Cornell University, where he also played college basketball. A father of three, he and his wife have resided in Dublin, Ohio, for many years. During that time, he has served as a youth coach across a variety of sports and as a Director and Board Member for the Dublin Youth Athletic Association. The Guths are active in numerous charitable organizations and sponsor scholarships for high school students in need of financial assistance for their post-high school education.

Joel’s priority is spending his free time with his family. The Guths enjoy traveling, skiing, hiking, and other family-oriented activities.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Tony Parr, Founding Partner of The Parr McKnight Wealth Management GroupOverviewTony Parr shares the journey of Parr McKnight Wealth Management Group, a team that built their practice at Wells Fargo Private Client Group and leveraged the firm’s independent channels to achieve a “frictionless” launch of their RIA.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Most advisors associate independence with leaving the wirehouse world entirely. That is, launching a firm, changing platforms, and building from scratch.

But what if there’s another way? A path that provides the freedom, flexibility, and control of independence without leaving your firm’s ecosystem?

That’s the story of The Parr McKnight Wealth Management Group, a $1B+ team that built its practice at Wells Fargo Private Client Group, where founding partner Tony Parr landed after a series of mergers culminated in Wells Fargo’s acquisition of Wachovia.

Growing the business over time, Tony leveraged Wells Fargo’s independent channels to slide into independence and create their own entity, their own vision, and ultimately, their own future.

In this episode, Tony speaks with Jason Diamond about their journey, including…

• The choice to slide into Wells Fargo’s independent broker dealer channel (FiNet)—and why they ultimately decided to build their RIA with FirstClearing and Trade PMR.
• Structuring what he describes as a “frictionless move”—and how that preserved continuity for clients while unlocking real autonomy for the business.
• Building a multigenerational team—and how that influences their thoughts about succession.
• Their “COWS” philosophy (Clients, Owners, Workers, and Society)—and how this simple framework continues to shape the way they grow, serve, and lead.

Whether you’re exploring independence, thinking long-term about succession, or just looking to hear how a high-performing team turned optionality into real enterprise value, this is a story worth hearing.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesIBD vs. RIA Revisited: Two Independent Pathways for Advisors to Consider
When it comes to freedom and control, there are key differences amongst the independent broker dealer (IBD) and registered investment advisor (RIA) spaces that every advisor should be aware of.

RIA, IBD or somewhere in between: Which version of independence is right for you?
As the independent space continues to expand, prospective breakaway advisors often have a hard time deciding between different individual models and options. These 5 questions can help point you in the right direction.

Optionality Under One Roof: For Advisors Who Aren’t Quite Ready for Independence
Forward-thinking firms are tapping into the flourishing interest in independence by offering their employee advisors an independent option under the same roof.

Tony Parr
Founding Partner

My childhood was not typical. I was born in New York City to a mother who immigrated from Sweden at age of 17 seeking adventure and opportunity, and to a father who fled the communist takeover in Cuba in 1959. I spent my childhood on the Caribbean Island of Puerto Rico and in Mexico City. I attended Boston University and graduated with honors, earning a degree in Economics. For the last 45 years, Minneapolis has been home. I reside in the Western suburbs of the Twin Cities with my wife, soulmate, and best friend, Christine. Rumor has it I gave her a first kiss in 6th grade.

Christine and I have a wonderful blended family with five fantastic children. Each of them is pursuing their own unique paths and achievements. Now that we are empty nesters, our home is filled with the lively presence of our four dogs, who keep us busy and entertained. We love to travel, hike, ski, and see live music, enjoying every opportunity to explore and experience new adventures together.

Part of who I am comes from my three college summers working the graveyard shift at a giant grocery store distribution warehouse. I drove a forklift and loaded boxes of bulk groceries onto wooden pallets for distribution to stores all over Minnesota. Through this experience, I learned about hard work, attention to detail, discipline, consistency, process, and perseverance. It wasn’t terribly enjoyable at the time, but it taught me some great life lessons.

One of my primary roles on the team is acting as the team’s visionary and strategist. To do so, I participate in a number of mastermind and peer groups, aim to be a profile student of industry best practices, working to ensure that the team brings their very best to each and every client relationship. We’re committed to one another with integrity and transparency to benefit our clients, our companies, our families, and our communities.

Recognized by Forbes Magazine as one of the Best-In-State Wealth Advisors in 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024 and 2025, I have had the privilege of being a trusted Financial Advisor to families and institutions for more than 34 years. As a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ professional and founding member of The Parr McKnight Wealth Management Group, I enjoy harnessing the collective talents of the team and the vast resources of our firm to make the greatest possible impact on clients’ lives.

Our team is like a family and our clients are an extension of that family. The work ethic, camaraderie, and values are reflected in the success we all share. I believe to be a reflection of our team’s success, I’m often honored and humbled with requests to speak at industry events designed to promote best practices.

​As a team, it is our mission to enhance the quality of our clients’ lives and bring prosperity and blessings to those we serve. Simply put, I want to have a positive impact on the lives of other people and make my own small dent in the universe.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Jason Diamond & Louis DiamondOverviewA “Top 10” list of firm-level innovations and grassroots methodologies from some of the most successful advisors, teams, and firm in the business. Listen in to spark ideas designed to drive greater growth.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…One of the most rewarding parts of our work is the sheer volume of conversations we have with advisors—across every model and stage of growth. This gives us a unique vantage point: we’re constantly seeing what works, what’s gaining traction, and what some of the industry’s most successful advisors are doing to move the needle.

In this episode, Jason and Louis share the best of what we’ve been hearing from top advisors: The ideas that stood out, sparked “aha” moments, and made us say, “more advisors should hear this.”

Jason and Louis explore topics that include:

• Creative team structuring
• Strategic liquidity and succession programs
• Innovative technology usage
• Unique M&A tactics
• Novel marketing ideas

It’s a “Top 10” list of firm-level innovations and grassroots methodologies that will spark ideas to help drive greater growth—and help you grow smarter, not just bigger.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesInnovative Ways the Best Independent Firms Fuel Growth: A Special Industry UpdateIndependence allows advisors to create an unlimited menu of innovative value-add services for their clients. And as the industry landscape expands, employee advisors are finding ways to get in on the action. Learn specific examples of the various services offered by some of the industry’s leading independent firms.

If You Build It, Will They Buy It? A Special Industry Update on M&A
A download on M&A for the advisor who has an interest in building a business designed to be an attractive prospect for sale at maximum enterprise value. Identifies options to consider, the risks, and potential rewards.

How to Set Up Your Business to Maximize Enterprise ValueJason and Louis Diamond explore strategies for maximizing enterprise value, whether or not an advisor plans to move. Learn actionable insights, key business practices, short-term vs. long-term tactics, and real-world examples.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Doug Fritz – Co-Founder and Executive Chairman, F2 StrategyOverviewThe co-founder of F2 Strategy, Doug Fritz, offers a mini-masterclass on how the best advisory businesses utilize technology to create efficiencies and deliver a better client experience. Discover how strategic choices in building a tech stack, incorporating AI, and other key elements can future-proof your business and serve as a distinct differentiator.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Technology has become the heartbeat of advisory firms, driving everything from client experience to back-office efficiency and long-term enterprise value. It’s a growth engine, a differentiator, and, for many firms, a source of both opportunity and frustration. This is why building the right strategy – one that’s future-proof, practical, and tailored for your firm – proves to be easier said than done.

Doug Fritz understands this better than most. As a former CTO at First Republic Wealth Management and a senior executive at Wells Fargo Private Bank, Doug has witnessed firsthand how large firms build – and sometimes misfire – when it comes to technology. Those experiences led him to co-found F2 Strategy with his wife, Liz. Together, they’re on a mission to deliver enterprise-grade strategy and an outsourced CTO model to RIAs and other wealth management firms looking to level up.

In this episode, Doug talks with Louis Diamond about what he’s seeing across the industry, including:

• The “aha” moments that push firms to rethink their approach—and what top-performing firms and advisors are doing differently.
• The biggest tech challenges advisors and firms face—and how “common mistakes” can be avoided.
• The client experience—and how the effective use of technology can drive greater engagement and efficiency.
• The proliferation AI—and how to move beyond the hype and start experimenting with intention.
• Future-proofing your business—and what smart, strategic tech choices you should consider today.

Whether you’re building your first tech stack, looking to integrate AI, or just wondering what the most successful firms are doing behind the scenes, this episode is a mini-masterclass in modern advisory strategy.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesFinTech Disruptors: The CEO of eMoney on How to Elevate the Planning ExperienceSusan McKenna, CEO of eMoney, explores the fintech firm’s evolution, competitive edge, and the role of technology in wealth management. She discusses how eMoney’s tools foster client conversations and enhance experiences, shares insights on the future, and more.

Finding the Shortest Path to Excellence Can Be a Game Changer for AdvisorsDoing everything you can to deliver better service, drive growth, and achieve your goals faster can result in extraordinary benefits.

The 2025 Annual Report on Transitions and Deals for Financial Advisors – 2024 Activity DataData-driven insights and analysis on advisor transitions, deals, and the evolving wealth management industry landscape.

Doug Fritz
Co-founder and CEO

Doug Fritz is the co-founder and CEO of F2 Strategy. A veteran wealth management CTO and sought-after WealthTech consultant, Doug leads an all-star team of executives in technology-driven operations, digital client engagement, performance and implementation, among many other areas for clients. Through F2’s Outsourced CTO (OCTO) model and strategy consulting services, Doug is passionate about helping firms of all sizes deliver exceptional client and advisor experiences. Doug is also an accomplished industry thought leader, speaker and judge with American Banker, Financial Times, WM.Com, RIAIntel, InvestmentNews, Family Wealth Report, WealthStack, and Financial Planning. He is also a 2021 ThinkAdvisor Thought Leader Luminary and 2023 PAM award winner. Before founding F2 with his wife Liz Fritz, Doug was the CTO of First Republic Wealth Management. Prior, he was Senior Vice President of Wells Fargo Private Bank. Doug lives in Wilmette, IL.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Ted Jenkin – Co-Founder, JPTD PartnersOverviewWhat drives valuations—and what mistakes kill deals? M&A advisor Ted Jenkin joins Louis Diamond to share practical insights on maximizing value, understanding multiples, avoiding seller pitfalls, and the critical prep work every advisor should be doing now.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…More advisors than ever are considering growth and life after their business—whether that means selling, merging, or simply planning for succession.

Maximizing value and finding the right fittakes more than just timing; it requires the right strategy, the right partner, and a clear understanding of what truly drives value.

Ted Jenkin knows that journey firsthand. A serial entrepreneur and former financial advisor, Ted built and successfully sold his own advisory firm—learning firsthand what it takes to navigate the process as a founder. Now, he’s on the other side of the table, serving as an M&A consultant at JPTD Partners and a sell-side M&A advisor through Exit Stage Left Advisors, all while helping other advisors navigate the high-stakes world of valuations and deal-making.

If Ted’s name seems familiar, you likely encountered his sharp analysis and direct, no-nonsense commentary on Fox News, CNBC, and The Wall Street Journal. As both a practitioner and educator, Ted offers a rare blend of tactical insight and real-world experience.

In this episode, Louis Diamond dives into the conversation with Ted to discuss what every potential seller or advisor seeking to maximize their long-term value needs to understand, including:

• Valuation—and what multiples really mean.
• The biggest mistakes he sees sellers make—and how to avoid them.
• The role of marketing—and how he used smart strategy and tactics in his own practice.
• The buyers to look for—and what the best ones have in common.
• The factors that really drive multiples—and how market influences can impact valuations.
• The work you can do before you go to market—and why it may be more important than anything that happens during a deal.

Whether you’re just starting to consider an exit, already in discussions, or advising clients through their own transitions, this conversation is filled with valuable insights.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesHow to Set Up Your Business to Maximize Enterprise ValueJason and Louis Diamond explore strategies for maximizing enterprise value, whether or not an advisor plans to move. Learn actionable insights, key business practices, short-term vs. long-term tactics, and real-world examples.

How to Maximize Your Career Enterprise ValueThis formula provide a process by which an advisor can “calculate” the sum total of 4 key factors—to conceptualize what their career enterprise value really is and how to achieve it.

The 2025 Annual Report on Transitions and Deals for Financial Advisors – 2024 Activity DataData-driven insights and analysis on advisor transitions, deals, and the evolving wealth management industry landscape.

Ted Jenkin
Co-Founder

Ted Jenkin is a serial entrepreneur. He is a Partner of JPTD Partners, an M&A consulting firm for financial advisors, President of Exit Stage Left Advisors, a sell-side M&A firm, and a Partner at Exit Wealth, one of the premier ultra high net worth wealth management companies in the country. Ted is a national television expert and one of the opinion editorial writers for Fox News, regularly appearing on Varney & Co. He also appears on News Nation, CNBC, and The Wall Street Journal. Ted has a nationally syndicated entrepreneur television show called The Roadmap on America’s Small Business Network. He is an Amazon best-selling author and has six advanced designations from the College for Financial Planning (CFP®, CRPC®, CRPS®, AWMA®, AAMS®, CMFC®). Today, Ted lives in Atlanta, GA.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Brett Oley and Ryan Kinser, Co-Founders and Managing Partners — Oley Kinser Concierge WealthOverviewBrett Oley and Ryan Kinser demonstrate how the power of friendship and a shared focus on the client contributed to their early success in making the leap from UBS to Raymond James, building a growing business under the independent broker dealer umbrella.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Occasionally, we have the opportunity to revisit a story that perfectly captures what’s achievable in this industry when you take a leap—and back it up with grit, vision, and client-first conviction.

Brett Oley first appeared on this podcast back in 2018, shortly after launching his independent business through Raymond James with $125 million in assets under management. Today, alongside founding partner Ryan Kinser, they’ve built a business that has grown to manage over $700 million in client assets.

But the numbers are just the beginning. Along the way, Brett and Ryan completed two acquisitions, wrote two books, and grew their team to eight—all while staying true to their north star: providing exceptional, concierge-level client service.

Their story started in an unexpected place: a hotel pool in Dubai during an MBA program abroad. That chance meeting sparked a partnership rooted in friendship, aligned values, and a shared entrepreneurial drive.

Their friendship continued while both built their businesses at UBS. Then Brett left for Raymond James, and Ryan later joined him to launch Oley Kinser Concierge Wealth.

In this episode with host Jason Diamond, Brett and Ryan talk about their journey, including:

• Their business life at UBS—and what motivated them to transition to independence.
• Their extraordinary growth—and how both organic and inorganic strategies contributed to early achievements.
• The independent broker dealer space—and why they felt it was (and continues to be) the best option for their business.
• The power of voice—and how the freedom to market and author two books amplified their success.
• The importance of culture—and how finding the right fit remains their most valuable asset.

It’s a powerful look at what’s possible when you combine bold thinking with an unwavering focus on doing right by the client.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesGoing Independent With $100 Million in Assets Under ManagementIt’s not just the billion-dollar teams that are making a splash in the independent space—just ask Brett Oley of Oley Kinser Concierge Wealth.

Rapid Reaction: UBS Comp Plan Changes and the Impact on AdvisorsLouis Diamond offers a perspective for UBS advisors on the firm’s compensation plan changes announced on November 21. It’s an episode for advisors who are curious about the updates and how they can use this knowledge to make informed decisions.

The Mysteries of UBS: Deciphering What Drives its Wins and LossesUBS advisors describe a culture defined by wins and losses—and they are asking tough questions about what the future holds.

Brett Oley
Co-Founder & Managing Partner

Brett Oley, a Co-Founder & Managing Partner of Oley Kinser Concierge Wealth and also a Financial Advisor of Raymond James Financial Services Inc., has built his advisory career on providing holistic wealth management — creating customized, comprehensive and thoughtful plans and professional money management solutions. Trustworthy and knowledgeable, Brett’s early fascination with finance, entrepreneurship, and stewardship has led him to build a team at Oley Kinser Concierge Wealth that works together to guide and educate families on ways to optimize their financial growth potential and preserve their wealth for the future. He specializes in helping business owners, retirees, families, and divorced individuals.

Delivering exceptional client service is second nature to Brett. He is ultra-passionate in his work and takes great pride in knowing all of his clients and understanding their unique needs. He makes every effort to provide friendly and impactful client interactions.

“Our mission is to build an innovative wealth management practice that not only continuously improves, but also helps provide value-creating solutions for our clients – all the while enjoying what we do,” Brett said. “We thoughtfully work with each family to sincerely understand their needs and strive to make sure they are met with plans expertly customized to them.”

Brett’s advisory career began with UBS in 2006. He joined the independent contractor division of Raymond James in 2017.

“Raymond James allows us the independence to more successfully create a positive client experience and also take care of our team, so that we can reach our full potential,” Brett said.

Brett graduated with a Bachelor’s Degree with a double major in Finance and Management (New and Small Business Concentration) from Georgetown University in 2004 and earned an MBA from the University of Florida at Gainesville in 2013.

An Accredited Wealth Management Advisor, Chartered Retirement Planning Counselor, and a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ practitioner, Brett holds Series 7, 9, 10, 31 and 66 securities licenses and is also life, health and variable annuity insurance licensed.

In 2020, Brett co-authored (with business partner Ryan Kinser) the book “Pillars of Planning: An Essential Guide to Help Grow and Protect Your Wealth.” The book covers an array of wealth management topics – providing value-added knowledge to the reader.

Brett hails from Vermilion, Ohio, a suburb of Cleveland situated on the south shore of Lake Erie. A Florida resident since 2006, Brett and his two beautiful children live in Naples with their French Bulldog “Atlas” and tabby cat “Oasa.” Beyond time with family and friends, Brett enjoys exercising, reading, fishing, traveling, and always learning new things!

Ryan Kinser
Co-Founder & Managing Partner

Offering comprehensive and multigenerational financial planning, Ryan and the team specialize in tailored portfolio construction and a concierge level of client service.

“Our goal is for clients to feel as though they’ve found the perfect team to guide them throughout the remainder of their working years and retirement,” Ryan said. “We want them to be confident in our plan for the future, learn along the way and truly enjoy the experience in working with our team.”

Ryan joined Raymond James in May 2018, where he co-founded Oley Kinser Concierge Wealth, LLC, with his longtime friend and colleague from business school, Brett Oley. Previously, Ryan spent four years with Citigroup and five years with UBS Financial Services Inc.

“Brett and I are genuinely proud to be affiliated with Raymond James Financial Services, a firm where the culture truly aligns with our client-first focus, in addition to ethics and integrity being paramount,” Ryan said. “Raymond James’ commitment to innovation and technology is very impressive, while the firm also provides financial advisors with an ideal platform that allows their entrepreneurial spirit to flourish and create a positive client experience.”

Ryan earned his Bachelor of Science in both economics and finance from the University of Central Florida, his MBA from the University of Florida and completed financial planning courses at Florida State University, which led him to become a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ professional. Ryan has earned the right to use the Chartered Financial Analyst® designation and is also a member of the CFA® Society of Naples.

“I absolutely love finance and am a constant ‘student of the game,'” Ryan said. “I’ve been blessed with the opportunity to combine my passion for finance with the ability to utilize the knowledge I have gained to help people reach for a lifetime of goals.”

Ryan genuinely cares about more than just his clients’ investment portfolios; he cares a great deal about who they are as people and their well-being. In doing business with Ryan, clients can expect a true concierge service experience including transparent advice, knowledge sharing and education, proactive communication, in-home meetings if preferred, and nearly 24/7 direct access, even on weekends.

“We firmly believe in doing what is right for the client at all times,” said Ryan, who takes pride in his high ethical standard. “Clients will typically realize this early on in our professional relationship, as Brett and I are very genuine, straightforward and fully transparent with them from the start.”

Originally from Stuart, Florida, Ryan also spent five years on the Caribbean Island of St. Maarten. Ryan, his wife Dana, daughter Kaia, and two sons, Barron & Troy, reside in beautiful Naples, Florida.

When he is away from the office, Ryan serves as a professional advisor to the Collier Community Foundation™, hosts an annual charity tennis tournament – he is an avid tennis player (4.0 level) – and enjoys playing golf, though he admits he has room for improvement.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Jason Diamond & Louis DiamondOverviewThe ultimate survival guide for employee advisors, offering essential advice on navigating the realities of control. Learn actionable points to consider should you find yourself dealing with the impact of mergers and acquisitions, new mandates, heightened vulnerability, and more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Advisors, especially those at the big firms, often spend years at one firm, satisfied with their ability to serve clients and grow their business, without much consideration of who’s “really” in control.

Then that sense of calm is disrupted: perhaps a rumor is leaked online, or a major change at the firm is announced in the press or at the firm’s annual meeting.

Events like these typically prompt advisors to question everything about their business and often leave them frustrated and wondering about things they never considered.

That is, all the things that are actually beyond an advisor’s control.

However, there is a certain reality to this that most advisors working at the big firms don’t even consider. It’s the answer to the question: Who’s really in control: The advisor or the firm?

Independent advisors generally don’t struggle with that answer—that’s the beauty of independence. So, how then do advisors who may have no desire to become independent answer that question?

In this Industry Update, Jason Diamond is joined by Louis Diamond to share a few real-world examples to help you think through the answer to that question and more, including:

• Understanding recent changes at your firm—and how to decide which may impact your business.
• Mergers and acquisitions—and what you might expect if your firm is acquired by another.
• The realities of private equity—and what the pros and cons are for advisors.
• New mandates—and why so many advisors are conflicted about cross-selling firm products.
• Plus, thoughts on vulnerability, termination, and much more.

This episode is the ultimate survival guide for advisors who are employees—with important advice on the realities of control and actionable points to consider should you find yourself dealing with a “change in control.”

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesYour Broker Dealer Was Just Sold. What Should You Do?Major players are acquiring independent broker dealers with increased frequency, leaving advisors caught up in these sales to wonder what the impact will be on their business. Here are four actions to take to find out.

Vulnerability & Termination: An Advisor’s Survival Guide
This guide provides practical steps to help you navigate these situations. By taking proactive measures and seeking the right guidance, you can ensure a smooth transition and continue to thrive in your career.

Monetization vs. Independence: What’s the Best Path?
Jason Diamond and Mindy Diamond provide insights and guidelines to help advisors navigate these choices with strategies to assess factors like growth, profitability, succession planning, and short- vs. long-term goals.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With John Thiel – Founder and Executive Chairperson, Indivisible PartnersOverviewJohn Thiel offers a unique perspective on the evolution of the wealth management industry and his former leadership role at Merrill. Plus, he shares how his new independent firm, Indivisible Partners, is carving a new path for those seeking a firm with a greater focus on the advisor.

Watch it…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…After nearly three decades with Merrill, John Thiel left the firm and his position as the Head of Wealth Management with just one regret: the feeling that there was more to be accomplished in the wealth management industry.

After seven years of remaining connected to the industry through consulting, board work, and similar endeavors, John’s vision for redefining the advisor’s role and what advice truly means to clients gained greater focus.

John’s experience at Merrill, where he rose through the ranks from advisor to management over the years, provided him with a unique perspective and valuable experience that few can claim.

It’s a trend we’re seeing more of these days—one in which members of the C-suites at the industry’s wirehouses are inspired to build a new independent business based on their knowledge of the gaps that exist in our ever-changing landscape.

Such “breakaway leaders” like John have a knack for seeing all sides of the circle—and they’re willing to bet their reputations on taking a shot at building the next big thing. And that’s the very space from which Indivisible Partners was born.

John joins Mindy Diamond in this episode to discuss his journey and outline his vision, including:

• His experience at Merrill—and why he chose to leave the firm and the wirehouse world behind.
• The gaps he saw in the wealth management industry—and how he sees Indivisible Partners filling them.
• Indivisible’s value proposition—and why building a firm that “invests in the advisor” is a unique and attractive proposal.
• The management team he assembled—and how this top talent from the C-suite is working together to build out something “special.”
• The role of a “servant leader”—and why he thinks advisors want someone who is more than a supervisor.
• His thoughts on the future of wealth management—and how the past is coloring the evolution we are seeing today.

John sees the wealth management industry as having a bright future and recognizes that change is a big part of that. Listen in for a unique perspective on what lies ahead.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesYou ARE Vulnerable: A Reality Check for All Wirehouse AdvisorsThere is a new reality for advisors who work for a wirehouse: An undercurrent of vulnerability.

Top Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a Move: An Industry UpdateA breakdown of the steps advisors can take to prepare for change and enhance business processes, equally effective for those at the curiosity stage or even deep into due diligence, and whether you ultimately make a move or not.

The 2025 Annual Report on Transitions and Deals for Financial Advisors – 2024 Activity Data Data-driven insights and analysis on advisor transitions, deals, and the evolving wealth management industry landscape.

John Thiel
Founder, Executive Chairman

John’s multi-faceted role is to lead Indivisible Partners’ Operating Committee structure by helping set its vision and strategy as well as running the firm and attracting the best advisor talent available. He also supports and guides teams in practice management and business growth, drawing on his vision and expertise to shift the client experience to one focused on achieving their desired outcomes.

Indivisible Partners is John’s vision come to fruition. He has long believed that financial services firms fall short of fully helping clients integrate their money decisions with the realities of their lives. The Indivisible Partners model enables advisors to use the latest data, analytics, and tools within the rigor of an institutional-caliber process to improve the quality of today’s decisions without jeopardizing the plans of tomorrow, through more robust impact analysis. The view is holistic, the process is collaborative, and the outcomes are rooted in the client’s best interests.

His previous 27 years at Merrill Lynch has prepared John for this moment. There, he accelerated growth and drove a dramatic cultural and strategic transformation to better serve clients’ needs. As Head of Wealth Management, he led Merrill Lynch’s shift into goals-based wealth management and became a renowned thought leader in the financial services industry. He grew revenue from $12.5 billion to $15 billion, doubled pre-tax margins to 28%, reengineered and grew the financial advisor training program, and reduced experienced financial advisor attrition to historic lows of 2.5%.

Throughout his Merrill Lynch tenure, John cultivated an environment that fostered a powerful relationship of trust between clients and advisors. It is this culture that he and the Indivisible Partners leadership team are amplifying today. John continues to focus on servant leadership that empowers advisors to develop trusted relationships with clients while offering them easy-to-understand, outcomes-based advice. He believes this is where the industry is lacking and creates the space for Indivisible Partners to become a premier wealth management firm.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Dave Mullen – Founding Partner and Principal, Altius LearningOverviewIn an episode that serves as a free coaching session on the key techniques that the most successful advisors use to build and grow their practices, Dave shares proven strategies honed from his tenure at Merrill, his three bestselling books, and his advisor coaching practice.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…So many of us wonder, “What does it REALLY take to get from here to there?”

This is one of those episodes that unpacks that query for advisors who are striving to elevate their production levels.

Whether you have your sights set on reaching a million in revenue or aiming to double or triple your current production, the guest on this episode offers tried-and-true best practices to help you get there.

Dave Mullen wrote three bestselling books based on the industry-leading methodologies he employed as a Managing Director at Merrill, where he hired, trained, and managed over 500 advisors during his tenure at the firm.

After retiring from Merrill in 2007, Dave launched the coaching and training firm LearnTactic, now known as Altius Learning to help advisors at all levels up their games.

So if you’re a fan of The Million Dollar Financial Services Practice, The Million Dollar Advisor, or The Million-Dollar Financial Advisor Team, this will serve as a mini-masterclass with Dave himself.

In this informative episode with Mindy Diamond, Dave shares powerful and proven strategies from his experience at Merrill and from his current coaching practice—and answers some of the top questions advisors have asked me about growth, including:

• The “secret sauce” that drove his success at Merrill—and how firms and advisors can integrate similar techniques for themselves or their team.
• Observations of top performers—and what they do differently from their peers.
• The value of training—and why it’s just as important to focus on the “emerging advisors” as it is on new recruits.
• Setting goals—and how the most successful advisors adapt their practices to changing environments.
• The low-hanging fruit that many advisors ignore—and how to take advantage of the opportunities before them.

Dave is a treasure trove of information, offering anecdotes from his experiences both at Merrill and from his own practice. It’s an episode that serves as a free coaching session with value for every advisor.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesFinding the Shortest Path to Excellence Can Be a Game Changer for Advisors
Doing everything you can to deliver better service, drive growth, and achieve your goals faster can result in extraordinary benefits.

How to Set Up Your Business to Maximize Enterprise ValueJason and Louis Diamond explore strategies for maximizing enterprise value, whether or not an advisor plans to move. Learn actionable insights, key business practices, short-term vs. long-term tactics, and real-world examples.

The 2025 Annual Report on Transitions and Deals for Financial Advisors – 2024 Activity DataData-driven insights and analysis on advisor transitions, deals, and the evolving wealth management industry landscape.

Dave Mullen
Founding Partner and Principal

Dave retired as a managing director at Merrill Lynch in 2007, where he personally hired, trained and managed over 500 financial advisors over 27 years. He has worked with hundreds of individual million-dollar and multimillion-dollar advisors, including many of the industry’s top advisors. At Merrill Lynch his responsibilities included:

• Financial Advisor
• Complex Manager
• Producing Manager
• National Sales Manager
• Sales Manager
• Managing Director

During his management career, Dave was recognized numerous times for being one of Merrill Lynch’s top national managers. While at Merrill Lynch his advisor training programs had a consistent success rate significantly higher than the industry average.

Dave founded LearnTactix, now called Altius Learning, in 2007 with the objective of creating training and coaching programs that would be career-changing experiences for participating advisors and managers. He is the author of three bestselling books: The Million Dollar Financial Services Practice (one of On Wall Street magazine’s top picks and a Top Five choice by AdvisorOne); and The Million Dollar Advisor—Powerful Lessons and Proven Strategies from Top Producers (one of On Wall Street magazine’s top picks) and his new book The Million-Dollar Financial Advisor Team. He has been featured in Investment News and Smart Money magazines.

Dave holds a BA and MBA from the University of Georgia, and has attended the Executive Leadership Program at The Wharton School at University of Pennsylvania. Dave is an avid mountain bike rider and skier. He and his wife Cynthia have 4 children and reside in Denver, CO.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Trent Leyda, Managing Director and Chief Investment Officer and Kay Campione, Executive Director and Senior Portfolio Manager at SpirePoint Private ClientOverviewTrent Leyda and Kay Campione offer a unique perspective on their time at Morgan Stanley, how it had come to diverge from their vision of building a family office they would entrust with their own families’ wealth, and how they are better equipped to realize that vision as an independent firm.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…This episode features a few plot twists that differentiate it from the typical wirehouse breakaway story.

For instance, one advisor who spent a dozen years with the CIA before starting a career in wealth management.

The balance of the story is one that’s far less covert, but just as compelling.

Trent Leyda was at Morgan Stanley when he met Kay Campione, a former CIA field intelligence officer turned Merrill advisor. She later left Merrill for Morgan and, with Trent, built a business managing some $1.4B in assets.

They had a strong focus on managing family wealth, which often left them wondering if the firm they worked for was the firm they’d want to manage their own family’s wealth and legacy.

It was thoughts like these that inspired Trent to say, “Let’s put a Plan B together, just in case.”

That plan, which revolved around building an independent firm, was later put into action. And in October 2023, Trent, Kay, and three other team members left to launch the RIA firm SpirePoint Private Client.

In this episode with Louis Diamond, Trent and Kay talk about their transition, including:

• Their goals in building a family office—and why they felt they could only achieve them in independence.
• Building an RIA firm—and the role tru Independence played in the process.
• Choosing custodians—and why both Schwab and Goldman Sachs were the right partners.
• The tangible benefits of independence—and how that translated into a firm they would trust to manage their families’ wealth and future.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe 2025 Annual Report on Transitions and Deals for Financial Advisors – 2024 Activity Data Data-driven insights and analysis on advisor transitions, deals, and the evolving wealth management industry landscape.

The Competition Conundrum: Charge Less or Offer More?Clients have more choices than ever before. Here are 5 ways to stand out from the crowd.

How Badly Do You Want It? A Process to Help Assess Whether Change is “Worth It” — A Special Industry Update
In looking for “better ways” to foster growth and solve for other long-term goals, advisors need to weigh the value of pain vs. gain when it comes to a transition. In this special episode, Mindy and Louis Diamond share a process for answering the seminal question: Is change really worth it?

Kay Campione, CFP®
Executive Director
Senior Portfolio Manager

Prior to co-founding SpirePoint Private Client, I was an advisor with The Leyda Group at Morgan Stanley from 2017 to 2023 and have been in the financial services industry for 17 years.

From 1999 to 2011, I worked as a case officer for the Central Intelligence Agency. My role as a field intelligence officer helped me develop a knowledge of international markets and economies as well as an understanding of what drives human behavior. My husband, Paul, and I served four tours overseas, including Korea, Nigeria, Kenya and Indonesia.

In 2014, I received the CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ (CFP®) designation*. I earned an MBA from the University of Chicago Booth School of Business and a Bachelor of Arts in Economics from Northwestern University.

I take great pride in our team being recognized as a Forbes Best-In-State Wealth Management Team in 2023.

As a first-generation immigrant, I am an unapologetic patriot and a lifelong fan of the Chicago Cubs. My husband and I are blessed parents of two sons and one daughter. In my spare time, I enjoy traveling, cooking (and eating) and spending time with my family and close friends.

Trent Leyda
Managing Director
Chief Investment Officer

Prior to co-founding SpirePoint Private Client, I led The Leyda Group at Morgan Stanley from 2009 to 2023. I started my career in New York City in 1995 working for a family wealth office, eventually becoming head of investments. After moving to Vero Beach in 2001, I have focused on building a team to become a high-performance family wealth office. SpirePoint is the result of decades of experience and commitment to achieving this objective.

I am honored to have received recognition as a Top 1200 Barron’s Advisor and Top Forbes Advisor from 2018-2023. I am particularly proud of our team being named as a Forbes Best-In-State Wealth Management Team in 2023.

I received an MBA from Pace Lubin School of Business and a Bachelor of Science in International Economics from The State University of New York. Both degrees were earned going to night school while working full time.

I have been blessed both professionally and personally with the support of my wife, Rachel, and our son and daughter. As I was raised by a single parent, my experience with parenthood has been and continues to be the most humbling and rewarding experience of my life. In my free time, I enjoy travelling with my family and trying to improve my golf game.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Mindy Diamond & Jason DiamondOverviewA download on M&A for the advisor who has an interest in building a business designed to be an attractive prospect for sale at maximum enterprise value. Identifies options to consider, the risks, and potential rewards.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Mergers and acquisitions in the wealth management industry continue to break records and dominate the headlines, particularly those at the “enterprise-level”—like LPL’s acquisition of Commonwealth.

While that transaction rocked the world at Commonwealth, many advisors have a more “personal” interest in M&A. Specifically, they’re thinking more about their own business and maximizing enterprise value so that one day they can sell it on the open market.

We’re often asked about the concept of M&A, especially by advisors who work in the wirehouses or are building their practices at other employee-model firms. They’re often attracted to the potential of building an independent business that they can monetize at the end of the day, but they are unclear on what it takes to get from A to B and beyond.

And they’re wondering, “If I build it, will they buy it?”

In this episode, Mindy Diamond and Jason Diamond explore the answer to that question and more, including:

• Evaluating the options available in the industry landscape—and how to determine which can best support the prospect of M&A.
• The realities of business valuation—and what you need to know to build for maximum enterprise value.
• Buyers and sellers—and how to determine “who” might be the best partner.
• Selling equity—and recognizing the upsides and downsides.
• The “right” next step—and what alternatives make more sense for those not ready to launch and sell an independent business.

It’s a download on M&A for the advisor or recent independent business owner who wants to better understand their options for building a practice well-poised for growth and sale potential.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesAdvisor Transitions: Is the Risk Worth the Reward?
5 criteria for advisors to consider when weighing the risk vs. the reward in a move.

The Annual Update on Advisor Transitions and Deals: 2024 Edition
In this companion guide to the annual Advisor Transition Report, Jason Diamond and Louis Diamond share key findings and post-publication insights from the annual state of the industry, with updates on advisor movement, transition deals, and more.

The 2025 Annual Report on Transitions and Deals for Financial Advisors – 2024 Activity Data Data-driven insights and analysis on advisor transitions, deals, and the evolving wealth management industry landscape.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Shaun Hauser – Founder & CEO, Wellington-Altus Private Wealth Inc.OverviewShaun Hauser offers a unique perspective on how our northern neighbors perceive the wealth management industry, drawing comparisons to practices and firms in the US and providing insights into creating an independent firm that has achieved extraordinary growth.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…This marks a first for our podcast series.

Our content focus has traditionally been on the wealth management industry in the US. However, in this episode, we’re heading across our northern border to gain a first-hand view of building a wealth management business in Canada.

For perspective, Statista reported that in 2024, assets under management by Canada’s wealth management firms exceeded a staggering 1.95 trillion US dollars. That’s nearly equal to the country’s annual GDP of 2.1 trillion US dollars.

To learn more about the industry, the similarities to the US, and the differences, we asked the Founder and CEO of one of the most successful independent Canadian firms, $35B+ Wellington-Altus Private Wealth, to join us.

Shaun Hauser built a career as an investment advisor in Winnipeg before founding Wellington-Altus in 2017. With a knack for focusing on the long term, he was ultimately motivated to launch the independent firm and later take on a private equity partner.

In this episode with Louis Diamond, Shaun does a deep dive into his firm and the Canadian wealth management space, including:

• The Canadian financial advisory industry—and how it compares to the US, including the opportunities and challenges.
• Being at the epicenter of the nascent Canadian breakaway movement—and how Wellington-Altus became the hottest firm in Canada in less than 10 years.
• Building an independent firm—and the decision to take on a private equity partner.
• Differentiating in the Canadian market—and what Wellington-Altus does to stand apart.
• The value of scaling an idea—and how Canadians learn from US trends.

It’s a conversation that offers a fresh perspective on how our northern neighbors view the wealth management industry, with valuable takeaways for advisors and business owners alike.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe 2025 Annual Report on Transitions and Deals for Financial Advisors – 2024 Activity DataData-driven insights and analysis on advisor transitions, deals, and the evolving wealth management industry landscape.

Top Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a Move: An Industry UpdateA breakdown of the steps advisors can take to prepare for change and enhance business processes, equally effective for those at the curiosity stage or even deep into due diligence, and whether you ultimately make a move or not.

Finding the Shortest Path to Excellence Can Be a Game Changer for AdvisorsDoing everything you can to deliver better service, drive growth, and achieve your goals faster can result in extraordinary benefits.

Shaun Hauser
Founder & CEO, Wellington-Altus Financial Inc.
Senior Wealth Advisor, Wellington-Altus Private Wealth Inc.

A successful Investment Advisor in Winnipeg, Shaun has worked in the field since 1998. He has extensive experience in the management and organization of departments and companies in the wealth management industry.

Shaun also worked for Wellington West, where he managed operations and sales for the asset management subsidiary. Recently, Shaun served on the executive committee of NBF Wealth Management, where he was VP of Advisor Strategy and Support.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Glenn Israel, CEO & Founder, GFI Wealth PartnersOverviewGlenn Israel reached a point where he recognized that, as an employee, he was limited in his ability to serve clients and grow his business. So he left Edward Jones to launch GFI Wealth Partners and shares what he learned in the transition process, what he can do differently in independence, and more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Realizing that you, the advisor, are responsible for every aspect of your business often marks a turning point in many careers.

Ultimately, you’re the one who drives the bus and makes the decisions—such as how clients are served, when to hire staff, and what products and services to offer.

That is, unless you are limited to what the firm or model dictates—then the biggest decision you need to make is whether the firm you work for allows you to build and grow your business without limitation.

For Glenn Israel, the reality that “the buck stops here” motivated him to leave the practice he built at Edward Jones and make the leap to independence.

Glenn’s career is much like other breakaway advisors: He began his journey at Merrill and later moved on to Edward Jones, where he built the business to $215mm.

It was 13 years in at Edward Jones that Glenn decided it was time to make a change—and that the buck didn’t just stop with him, it started with him.

So he made the leap to independence in July of 2022, launching GFI Wealth Partners under the Raymond James umbrella.

In this episode, Glenn talks about his journey with Jason Diamond, including:

• The progression from Merrill to Edward Jones—and why he ultimately chose to leave for independence.
• The process of transitioning from Edward Jones to independence—and what lessons he learned from due diligence through launch.
• The value of being an independent business owner—and what he can do differently in independence.
• “The mirror test”—and how asking himself a few critical questions drove his decision-making process.
• Plus, Glenn shares how, in independence, he is no longer limited by what he describes as “confinement”—and much more.

It’s an equally relatable story for advisors considering change and independent business owners.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesDiamond Consultants Advisor Transition Report 2024 – Focus on Edward JonesThis “firm-focused report” seeks to look under the hood at movement to and from Edward Jones from January to June of 2024.

Post-Transition Survey: Checking in on Former Edward Jones Advisors Who Recently MovedUnfiltered, fresh, candid, and honest feedback straight from your Edward Jones peers who transitioned to another firm or model within the past 18 months.

Should I Stay or Should I Go? An Advisor’s Guide to Thinking Through Their Biggest DecisionJason Diamond turns the tables on Mindy who offers a first-hand glimpse into her book, Should I Stay or Should I Go?, created specifically for financial advisors who are looking to optimize their businesses or thinking through the biggest decision of their lives.

Glenn Israel, CFP®
CEO, Founder

With more than twenty years of experience in financial planning and investment management, Glenn Israel has the accumulated knowledge and perspective to help you with your financial goals. Glenn understands the dynamics of wealth, how to balance the complex forces at work and how to adapt intelligently as conditions change.

As your life and your needs as an investor evolve, so will your vision for the future and risk tolerance. Glenn will be with you every step of the way offering sound advice and customized financial solutions designed specifically for you.

Glenn endeavors to create long-term, meaningful relationships with a select group of clients and provide them with personalized financial planning advice using some of the industry’s most comprehensive resources. His investment process takes into account your investing experience, your expectations for returns, your tolerance for risk, and the performance of your portfolio.

Based on what he learns about you and your goals and an analysis of the current financial markets, Glenn designs a customized investment portfolio based on recommendations made solely with your best interest in mind. He then takes the time to explain his recommendations and once you are comfortable with your new plan, Glenn puts it into action and reviews its performance for opportunities to adapt to life changes and new goals.

Glenn began his career in financial services in 2002 and previously spent thirteen years with Edward Jones. Today, Glenn provides comprehensive planning with retirement, college education, insurance, income distribution needs, and estate planning in mind through Raymond James.

A native of the San Francisco Bay Area, Glenn currently resides in Munster, IN. Away from the office, Glenn enjoys spending quality time with his children Jack, William, and Josephine, laughing with his friends, playing all types of racket sports, and allocating some time to be present in nature.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Michael Kitces, Industry Thought Leader from Kitces.comOverviewThe industry thought leader shares insights on the factors that impact efficiency and growth, citing research from his latest Productivity study, and weighs in on launching a firm, building a team, the role of technology and AI, and much more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Few individuals in the wealth management industry have a name that holds as much significance as Michael Kitces.

Many undoubtedly recognize him from his website, Kitces.com, his industry-leading Financial Advisor Success podcast, research reports, and his extensive media presence. Yet many may not realize that Michael’s advice and narratives come from deep-rooted industry experience.

Michael serves as the Head of Planning Strategy at Buckingham Wealth Partners, an independent RIA managing over $50 billion in assets. Additionally, he is a co-founder of XY Planning Network, AdvicePay, New Planner Recruiting, and several other firms related to the industry.

Through all of this, Michael somehow finds the time to be a gracious guest, willing to share his time and knowledge with the rest of us. This is the fourth time that Michael has joined us on this show, so be sure to check out the other episodes, the links to which you’ll find on this episode’s page.

Today, we tackle a few key business topics that many advisors frequently seek guidance on. That is, growth and productivity—and how the two go hand-in-hand when building a successful wealth management business.

Michael shares actionable advice and insights from his recent Productivity Study with Mindy Diamond, including:

• The key drivers of productivity—and how each relates to an advisor or firm’s success.
• The sweet spot of growth and efficiency—and how best to strike a balance.
• Launching a firm from scratch—and what you need to know to structure it for maximum efficiency and client impact.
• The AI revolution—and how he sees it impacting advisors and the wealth management industry.
• The role of staff and team members—and what needs to be considered to maximize productivity.
• Industry predictions—and which you should pay the most attention to.
• And much more!

Michael always shares a wealth of knowledge with key takeaways for every advisor and business owner, so be sure to tune in.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesMichael Kitces on Advisor Wellbeing: How Autonomy is Trumping Income When it Comes to Advisor Happiness
Listen in for an insightful and revealing look into advisors’ minds and what really makes them happy, based on data from the latest Kitces survey. Learn the motivations and drivers that lead not only to success but to a better quality of life.

Michael Kitces on Everything Financial Advisors Need to Know About GrowthIndustry rockstar Michael Kitces shares his thoughts on building a thriving practice, why scale isn’t everything, marketing, organic and inorganic growth strategies and much more. It’s a must-listen for every financial advisor and business owner.

Michael Kitces on How to Differentiate and Grow in a Competitive EnvironmentOne of wealth management’s leading voices shares his thoughts on the fundamental shifts in the industry, the leveling of the playing field and what advisors need to do to compete and thrive.

Michael E. Kitces
Industry Thought Leader from Kitces.com

Michael E. Kitces, MSFS, MTAX, CFP®, CLU, ChFC, RHU, REBC, CASL, is the Head of Planning Strategy at Buckingham Wealth Partners, an independent RIA with more than $50 billion of assets under management, that provides private wealth management to consumers and turnkey asset management platform services to advisors.

In addition, he is a co-founder of the XY Planning Network, AdvicePay, New Planner Recruiting, fpPathfinder, and FA BeanCounters, the former Practitioner Editor of the Journal of Financial Planning, the host of the Financial Advisor Success podcast, and the publisher of the popular financial planning continuing education blog Nerd’s Eye View through his website www.Kitces.com, all dedicated to advancing knowledge in financial planning.

Beyond his website, Michael is an active writer and editor across the industry and has been featured in publications including Financial Planning, the Journal of Financial Planning, Journal of Retirement Planning, Practical Tax Strategies, and Leimberg Information Services, as well as The Wall Street Journal, BusinessWeek, CNBC PowerLunch, NBC Nightly News, and more. In addition, Michael has co-authored numerous books, including “The Annuity Advisor” with John Olsen (now in 5th edition), the first balanced and objective book on annuities written for attorneys, accountants, and financial planners, and “Tools & Techniques of Retirement Income Planning” with Steve Leimberg and others.

Michael is one of the 2010 recipients of the Financial Planning Association’s “Heart of Financial Planning” awards for his dedication to advancing the financial planning profession. In addition, he has variously been recognized as financial planning’s “Deep Thinker,” a “Legacy Builder,” an “Influencer,” a “Mover & Shaker,” part of the “Power 20,” and a “Rising Star in Wealth Management” by industry publications. These awards were presented to honor Michael’s active work in the financial planning community, including numerous other boards and committees for the Financial Planning Association, the Investments and Wealth Institute, and the Society of Financial Services Professionals, at both the local and National levels. Michael is also a co-founder of NexGen, a community of the next generation of financial planners that aims to ensure the transference of wisdom, tradition, and integrity, from the pioneers of financial planning to the next generation of the profession.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Steven Jarvis—CEO and Head CPA, Retirement Tax ServicesOverviewSteven Jarvis, the founder and CEO of Retirement Tax Services, offers advice on how a CPA can help increase the growth and enterprise value of an advisor’s business by providing tax planning strategies and more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Certified Public Accountants (CPAs) can add incredible value to the service that financial advisors provide to their clients. Beyond basic accounting practices, they can serve as powerful partners, especially when it comes to tax planning strategies, which can lead to added growth for an advisor’s business.

In this episode, Steven Jarvis, who bills himself as “The Least Boring CPA,” explores that potential with us.

The Jarvis name may be familiar: Matthew Jarvis, Steven’s brother and business partner, who was also a guest on this show, is a popular podcast host and CFP.

In the first decade of his accounting career, Steven was on the partnership trajectory at a national firm. That’s when he realized that his work was often relegated to a single page inserted into a much larger report—and it didn’t have nearly the impact he had hoped for.

As Steven put it, “There was a disconnect between my ability to make change and my desire to do so.”

Since then, Steven has found the connection he was looking for. As the founder and CEO of Retirement Tax Services, he works with financial advisors on tax planning through a year-round tax service model that keeps the financial advisor in the driver’s seat.

What does that really mean? In this episode with Louis Diamond, Steven answers that and more, including:

• His partnerships with advisors—and how his role goes beyond the basics of accounting services.
• Strategic tax planning—and how that differs from tax preparation.
• Compliance management—and why it’s critical to develop a plan to stay within the lines.
• The impact on growth—and how a CPA can help advisors increase their enterprise value.

Essentially, Steven covers all the bases around taxes so advisors can focus on delivering what he calls “massive value” to their clients.

Steven lives up to his title as “The Least Boring CPA” and is generous with sharing his knowledge, so be sure to tune in.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesHow to Deliver Massive Value: Turning the Tables on The Perfect RIA’s Matthew JarvisMatthew Jarvis rose from near bankruptcy to running a profitable independent financial advisory practice. He shares his story plus key teachings on extreme accountability, delivering massive value to clients, and more.

The Competition Conundrum: Charge Less or Offer More?Clients have more choices than ever before. Here are 5 ways to stand out from the crowd.

MaxCeV™: How to Maximize Your Career Enterprise ValueThis tool breaks down four key factors that contribute to career enterprise value, offering a framework for advisors to conceptualize and achieve their full potential. It’s an essential part of Diamond Consultants’ due diligence process to guide advisors towards long-term success.

Steven Jarvis, CPA
CEO and Head CPA

Steven Jarvis, CPA is the CEO and Head CPA at Retirement Tax Services, a tax firm focused on working with financial advisors to change the world one tax return at a time. In this role Jarvis spends his time working with real financial advisors and taxpayers to help find opportunities to not tip the IRS. Afterall, there are no patriotic awards for overpaying taxes.

With over 10 years of experience (and counting) as a CPA, Jarvis has the hands-on experience to create actionable content for his audience. He has been featured in industry publications including Advisor Perspectives and regularly produces content for financial advisors through the Retirement Tax Services website and the Retirement Tax Services Podcast. His experience covers written content, public speaking at leading industry conferences and 3 years as an adjunct professor in the graduate business school at Whitworth University.

“Steven regularly speaks on a variety of tax topics for financial planners but always keeps his focus on how attendees can take action (information only has value if it is implemented!). Some of Steven’s favorite topics to cover include:

• Common mistakes advisors make on tax planning and how to fix them
• The real math on Roth conversions and how to effectively communicate them with clients
• Collaborating with CPAs and building great COI relationships
• Incorporating tax planning into the a financial planning practice
• NEW – Secure Act 2.0 and what to do about it for tax planning

Steven’s years of experience and time working with hundreds of financial advisors gives him the ability and expertise to speak on a variety of topics, so if there is a tax topic you don’t see on the list you’d love to hear him speak on, just ask!”

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Louis DiamondOverviewLPL Financial, the largest independent broker dealer, is set to acquire Commonwealth Financial Network. Louis Diamond shares a perspective for Commonwealth advisors and LPL advisors alike and what the acquisition means for the industry at large.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…LPL Financial, the largest independent broker dealer, is set to acquire Commonwealth Financial Network—and it’s big news.

Commonwealth has established a reputation as one of the most advisor-friendly independent broker-dealers in the industry. The firm is well-known for its strong culture, impressive technology, and advisor-centric focus.

On the other hand, LPL is a $1.8T organization dedicated to the legacy on which the firm is built, as CEO Rich Steinmeier recently shared in this series. That is, the advisors are LPL’s clients, and it maintains the tradition of treating advisors “like people, not accounts.”

In this episode, Louis Diamond shares insights for advisors at Commonwealth, LPL, and the broader industry, including:

• The strategic rationale for LPL—and why this makes good sense for their business goals.
• The blending of two cultures—and how the boutique feel of Commonwealth may be impacted.
• The value of scale—and how LPL’s infrastructure invest may benefit Commonwealth advisors.
• The prospect of a retention deal for Commonwealth advisors—and how they should consider their future.
• The acceleration of consolidation—and what this means for other independent broker dealers and the industry at large.
• Plus, Louis offers three questions advisors should ask themselves when they find their firm is being acquired.

It’s an important perspective for all advisors—one that offers actionable advice, especially for those who are building their businesses in the independent broker dealer world.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesYour Broker Dealer Was Just Sold. What Should You Do?
Major players are acquiring independent broker dealers with increased frequency, leaving advisors caught up in these sales to wonder what the impact will be on their business. Here are four actions to take to find out.

The 2025 Annual Report on Transitions and Deals for Financial Advisors – 2024 Activity DataData-driven insights and analysis on advisor transitions, deals, and the evolving wealth management industry landscape.

Up Close with Rich Steinmeier: LPL’s CEO on the Transformation of a $1.8T CompanyRich Steinmeier offers a candid perspective of LPL’s journey and how the founding core principles remain pillars of the business today, even as evolutionary changes have made it one of the hottest firms in the industry.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Scott Pinkerton – Senior Planner & Managing Partner, FourThought Private WealthOverviewScott Pinkerton of FourThought Private Wealth offers a perspective on outgrowing the independent broker dealer model, transitioning to an independent RIA, and the extraordinary growth realized as a result of the change. Scott unpacks the difference between the models, shares why he opted to sell equity to Focus Financial, and more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Independence comes in various shapes and sizes—with different levels of freedom and control that can serve just about any desire an advisor may have in building their business.

Scott Pinkerton knew that firsthand, having joined his father’s business in the 1980s at A.G. Edwards. Wachovia’s acquisition of the firm, which soon became Wells Fargo, opened the door for Pinkerton Private Wealth to join Wells’ independent broker dealer model, Finet.

For decades, the IBD model worked well for Scott and his team, building the business to over $700mm in assets under management.

Yet there came a point when Scott wondered: “Should we coast along and just stay comfortable, or should we challenge ourselves to beat the trends and go for it?”

Then, it became clear that even though they were “independent,” they were still limited by the guardrails imposed by the IBD model. To be a true fiduciary and make untethered decisions about their business and how they served clients would mean taking the ultimate leap: launching their own independent RIA.

And so they did. In 2020, FourThought Private Wealth launched and five years later grew to manage over $1.7B in client assets.

In this episode with host Mindy Diamond, Scott talks about that journey and his transition, including:

• The choice to leave Wells and launch an RIA firm—and how that decision has impacted their business.
• Life in the independent broker dealer model—and what promoted them to consider full-on independence.
• Their extraordinary growth—and what key factors drive it.
• Selling equity to Focus Financial Partners—and why they saw this as the right move at the right time.

Plus, Scott offers a detailed perspective on serving clients, their ability to provide “unique” family office services, the realities of business ownership, and much more. It’s an episode for any advisor or business owner who may be looking at their business and considering how best to optimize it for now and the future.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesYou ARE Vulnerable: A Reality Check for All Wirehouse Advisors
There is a new reality for advisors who work for a wirehouse: An undercurrent of vulnerability.

Are You Vulnerable? An Advisor’s Guide to Surviving and Thriving in a Hyper-Compliant Environment
In a world managed to the lowest common denominator and driven by heavy-handed compliance, every employee advisor is vulnerable. In this episode, Mindy and Louis break it all down, share warning signs all advisors should pay attention to and proactive steps an advisor can take to protect themselves.

Vulnerability & Termination – An Advisor’s Survival Guide
A list of steps to take if you feel vulnerable, are under investigation or heightened supervision or have been terminated.

Scott Pinkerton
Senior Planner, Managing Partner

Scott is a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER® and Accredited Investment Fiduciary® who began his career in financial planning in 1985. He also completed the Certified Investment Management Analyst® program through the Wharton School of Finance. He later became a Certified Private Wealth Advisor® through the Investments & Wealth Institute at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. CPWA® is an advanced credential for wealth managers who work with high-net-worth families and individuals, focusing on the life cycle of wealth: accumulation, preservation, and distribution. Most recently, in 2023, Scott was named to the Barron’s Top 1200 Advisors and Forbes Best-In-State Wealth Advisors. Scott is a longtime philanthropist, a deacon in his church, and an avid cyclist. He and his wife of more than 30 years, Julie, have three grown daughters and four grandchildren: 2 granddaughters and 2 grandsons.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Jason Diamond & Louis DiamondOverviewIn this companion guide to the annual Advisor Transition Report, Jason Diamond and Louis Diamond share key findings and post-publication insights from the annual state of the industry, with updates on advisor movement, transition deals, and more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Why do advisors change firms?

That simple question set us on a journey that began four years ago when we first conceived our Advisor Transition Report.

The cynical view is that advisors move primarily because they get paid highly lucrative recruiting deals—and with firms willing to pay aggressive multiples of revenue to recruit advisors, that explanation certainly holds some weight.

But what about the advisors who opted for a version of independence where transition capital is less available or even non-existent? Or the advisors who approach due diligence with complete disregard for recruiting deals, preferring to evaluate each firm on their own merits because their only focus is how to make life better for their clients?

It stands to reason that dollars alone are not a sufficient explanation for advisor movement, and certainly not to the high degree we have seen movement in recent years.

That’s why we publish our annual Advisor Transition Report: to connect the dots between the raw movement data and the answers to the overarching question of “Why?”

The goal is to arm advisors with the information they need to make an informed decision—even those who have no intention of making a move but simply want to be empowered with knowledge.

In this special Industry Update, Jason Diamond and Louis Diamond share key findings and post-publication insights, including:

• Advisor movement—and which firms were the winners of top talent.
• Channel activity—and which channels were most attractive to advisors.
• Competitive recruiting—and how each of the wirehouses compared in the race for talent.
• Transition deals—and where they’re headed.
• Advisor mindset—and how that influences change.
• Key indicators and trends—and how activity over 2024 is influencing 2025.
• Plus, select case studies from some of the year’s prominent transitions…and much more.

It’s the annual episode that serves as a companion to the report, with key highlights and insider information.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe 2025 Annual Report on Transitions and Deals for Financial Advisors – 2024 Activity DataData-driven insights and analysis on advisor transitions, deals, and the evolving wealth management industry landscape.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

A Special Industry Update with Louis Diamond & Jamie CampbellOverviewA special episode designed for firms with their sights set on enhancing recruiting efforts and advisors looking to attract new team members, offering the steps to craft an effective Employer Value Proposition (EVP), with examples on usage and potential impact on hiring success and retention.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…It should come as no surprise that competition for top talent has become tougher than ever.

This means that companies must excel at attracting, hiring, and retaining team members.

So where do you start?

Studies indicate that communicating and demonstrating a clear Employer Value Proposition or EVP is one of the most important factors in attracting and retaining talent.

For example, a study by CareerArc found that 69% of candidates would decline a job offer from a company with a negative employer brand—even if they were unemployed.

A Gallup poll indicated that employees who understand and connect with their company’s mission and values are 67% more engaged.

A Gartner study found that approximately 65% of candidates reported withdrawing from a hiring process because of an unattractive EVP. Likewise, a well-defined EVP can increase new hire commitment by up to 29% and potentially reduce annual employee turnover by nearly 70%.

So, what exactly is an Employer Value Proposition and how can you create one that’s compelling as well as something your firm can live up to?

Jamie Campbell from our new Executive Search Group joins Louis Diamond in this special Industry Update to break it all down, including:

• The key ingredients of an EVP—and how each resonate with prospective talent.
• The importance of a well-crafted EVP—and how to ensure its tenants are embedded into your culture.
• Aligning your EVP with your corporate vision and strategy—and what firms do this best.
• The value of retention—and how it’s impacted by your EVP.
• Communicating your EVP—and what you can do to expand your messaging reach.

It’s an episode that offers immediate action items for firms with their sights set on enhancing their recruiting efforts and advisors looking to attract and retain new team members.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesAbout Our Executive Search GroupA dedicated partner to help you find the right talent for your growth.

Our 7-Step-ProcessOur retained executive search platform is based on three decades of experience, expertise, and extensive reach—and a unique 7-step proprietary methodology.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Rich Steinmeier – CEO, LPL FinancialOverviewRich Steinmeier offers a candid perspective on LPL’s journey and how the founding core principles remain a pillar of the business today, even as evolutionary changes have made it one of the hottest firms in the industry.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…LPL Financial is a classic example of a “legacy firm”—built over time on a solid and enduring foundation.

While many may view long-standing firms as immutable and resistant to change, LPL’s new CEO, Rich Steinmeier, is proving that’s a misconception.

LPL shows that enduring legacies built to last are those established on a solid foundation of the past while continuously evolving and transforming to become better and stronger for the future.

LPL was born in 1989 from the merger of two small brokerage firms, Linsco and Private Ledger, and was designed as an alternative to traditional Wall Street firms. The founders’ vision centered on helping financial professionals build competitive businesses while serving their clients’ best interests.

Yet, as Rich puts it, LPL’s foundational legacy is in how it views its advisors: They are LPL’s clients, and the tradition of treating advisors like “people, not accounts,” remains today.

Since Rich rose to the rank of CEO in October 2024, his role has been to advance LPL value propositions, such as taking care of advisors and institutions so they can take care of clients.

In this candid conversation with Louis Diamond, Rich shares a behind-the-scenes perspective of the firm, including:

• Raising to the ranks of CEO—and his vision for LPL now and in the future.
• A look back at the legacy—and how the foundational tenets are informing their direction and goals.
• Continually raising the service level bar—and why “finding more ways for advisors to win” is such an important concept.
• The variety of ways for advisors to affiliate with the firm—and how that’s transforming the way advisors consider independence.
• The succession crisis—and how LPL sees an opportunity for advisors and their businesses.
• Their path to becoming a $1.8T firm—and what’s driving their growth.

It’s a rare, candid conversation with the CEO of one of the hottest wealth management firms in the industry.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe Succession Conundrum: How Advisors Can Balance Legacy and LiquidityMultigenerational teams have several options for monetizing and transitioning the book from one generation to the next. So, how do they decide what’s best?

Satisfying an Advisor’s Quest for Independence as an EmployeeFor many advisors, independence is just a bridge too far—but greater autonomy and control are often closer than they realize.

Succession and Liquidity: Key Considerations and Options for Founders and Next GensSuccession and monetization are hot topics for advisors in every model. LPL Financial’s Liquidity and Succession program representatives discuss what advisors, independent business owners, and next gens need to consider as they grow their businesses and explore long-term and short-term options, plus best practices to prepare for a transition and maximize business value.

Rich Steinmeier
Chief Executive Officer

Before becoming CEO in 2024, Mr. Steinmeier served as LPL Financial’s Chief Growth Officer, where he led teams responsible for shaping the LPL corporate and business line strategy, recruiting new financial advisors and institutions to LPL, leading the field management of LPL employee advisors, creating and deploying capital solutions to LPL clients, and leading the marketing and communications functions.

Prior to joining LPL Financial, Mr. Steinmeier had senior leadership roles at UBS Financial and Merrill Lynch as well as working as a consultant for McKinsey & Company. Rich earned a B.S. in economics from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania and an M.B.A. from Stanford University as an Arjay Miller Scholar.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Gideon Drucker – President and CEO, Drucker Wealth ManagementOverviewGideon Drucker shares a multi-generational growth story, evolving from the insurance world, to independent broker dealer HTK, and most recently, to fully independent as an RIA. Now CEO, Gideon shares insights on his own evolution from next gen to leader, the advantages of independence, and their transition.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Many multi-generational wealth management businesses evolve from one generation to the next, with each generation making its mark and helping to drive the firm to the next higher level.

In this case, Bernie Drucker started in the life insurance world in 1959, building a practice helping families find financial independence. Bernie’s son, Lance, joined him in 1985, integrating investment management into their services. The third generation of Druckers, Gideon, came on board in 2016 after serving as a paratrooper in the Israeli military.

Gideon learned the insurance and wealth management business from the ground up, working alongside his father and extending the legacy born two generations earlier.

Drucker Wealth thrived for over 38 years with independent broker dealer Hornor, Townsend & Kent (also known as HTK), where they were the largest advisory team for 18 straight years, managing over $700mm in assets for their clients.

But just as Lance had helped take the business to the next level when he joined his father, Gideon set his sights on creating what he calls “Drucker Wealth 3.0”.

it was with that goal in mind that the team left the IBD world to become a stand-alone independent RIA firm.

Gideon now serves as the President and CEO of Drucker Wealth Management and talks with Mindy Diamond about the firm’s evolution, as well as his own, including:

• The growth from one generation to the next—and how that motivated them through change.
• Signs they were outgrowing the broker dealer model—and what inspired them to explore their options.
• Their transition from HTK and the broker dealer world—and what advantages they gained as an RIA firm.
• Growing up in the business—and how his story can offer learnings for senior advisors and next gen alike.
• The transition from next gen to leader—and how Gideon needed to adapt and grow.
• Plus, Gideon offers a candid insider’s perspective just one year in—and describes what he sees as the next phase of evolution for the business.

It’s an episode that offers value to those considering how to create continuity and a legacy, as well as serves as a growth blueprint for any next gen or senior advisor.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesFrom Insurance Sales to $8B RIA: A Northwestern Mutual Breakaway StoryAndy Schwartz went from selling insurance at Northwestern Mutual to managing $3.5B in assets and leading one of the firm’s largest groups. In 2014 they left to go independent as Bleakley Financial Group, now managing $8B in assets as a hybrid RIA.

The Succession Conundrum: How Advisors Can Balance Legacy and LiquidityMultigenerational teams have several options for monetizing and transitioning the book from one generation to the next. So, how do they decide what’s best?

Wealth Management Landscape At A Glance: Focus on Independence
In a greatly evolved industry landscape, the independent space has expanded to offer a variety of models with varying levels of freedom and flexibility. Which one might be right for you?

Gideon Drucker
Founder and Director of the Wealth Builder Division

Gideon Drucker, Certified Financial Planner, Accredited Investment Fiduciary and Equity Compensation Associate, is the Founder and Director of the Wealth Builder Division at Drucker Wealth, a family wealth management firm started by his grandfather Bernie Drucker in 1959. The third generation Drucker, Gideon specializes in working with young professionals looking to take a more proactive approach to their financial future.

While meeting many of his firms’ pre-retiree clients during his first year, Gideon kept hearing a common refrain: “If Only I had met you 30 years ago.” This sentiment, repeated dozens of times by new Drucker Wealth clients approaching retirement, became Gideon’s inspiration for everything to come. Gideon created the HENRY Syndrome™ suite of services as a way to educate and empower young professionals, newlyweds, and young families to make smart financial decisions for their futures.

Gideon was recently named by Forbes as a Top Next Gen Advisor and is a sought-after public speaker, presenting his HENRY Syndrome ™ workshops to hundreds of companies, organizations, and nonprofits throughout New York City and beyond with a primary focus in the tech community. Gideon graduated from Lehigh University before serving as a combat paratrooper in the Israel Defense Forces.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Christopher Griffith & Henry Wheelwright, Co-Founders and Managing Partners, Stablepoint PartnersOverviewChris Griffith and Henry Wheelwright, rising stars in the wirehouse world, share their growth story and motivations to leave Morgan Stanley and launch their own independent firm on the Goldman Sachs custody platform.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…The best partnerships have a great backstory.

Chris Griffith and Henry Wheelwright were college roommates and best friends bonded by sports and similarities in goals.

Together, they started their wealth management careers at A.G. Edwards. Then the duo moved on to UBS where they quickly became known as “rising stars.” 8 years later, they transitioned to Morgan Stanley, building a business managing $650mm in client assets and garnering accolades from the likes of Forbes.

Chris and Henry were always focused on their clients: Driven to understand their needs and do what was best for them.

Young yet accomplished, the team started to think more boldly—for creative ways to serve their clients as their personal CFOs, helping to make a positive difference in their lives and those of their future generations. It was that thought process that led them to conduct due diligence, with a focus on the independent space, where they could serve as true fiduciaries.

After looking at all the options available to them – from supported independence to each custodian – they landed on building their independent firm from the ground up on the Goldman Sachs custody platform.

Just one year later, as Stablepoint Partners, the duo shares how it’s going with Jason Diamond, including:

• Leaving behind the Morgan Stanley imprimatur—and how their clients responded to the change.
• The creative freedom they lacked in the wirehouse—and how they resolved that in independence.
• Goldman Sachs as custodian—and what they offered that other custodians didn’t.
• The choice to build an RIA from scratch—and why they opted for that path vs. supported independence.
• Their extraordinary short-term growth—and what they expect for the future.

Everyone loves a good “buddy story,” and this one has all the markings of a blockbuster: Two young advisors who have learned a lot in a short period of time and are happy to share actionable advice.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesEmbracing the Modern Advisor: An Inside Look at Goldman Sachs Advisor Solutions
Richard Lofgren, the Managing Director of Goldman Sachs Advisor Solutions, provides inside baseball, including how they differentiate from other established custodians, their ideal advisor profile, and much more.

If Not Another Wirehouse, Then What?
Advisors considering change want something more than what they have at their current firm. The good news is that there’s plenty to choose from. But that’s the bad news, too.

Wealth Management Landscape At A Glance: Focus on Independence
In a greatly evolved industry landscape, the independent space has expanded to offer a variety of models with varying levels of freedom and flexibility. Which one might be right for you? Our newly updated “Landscape at a Glance” focuses on independence, providing the key features of each model.

Christopher K. Griffith, CFP®, CPWA®
Managing Partner, Co-Founder

Chris co-founded Stablepoint Partners to put his client’s best interests first. His vision was to purposely grow the firm in a way that provides exceptional service to every client, keeping focus on building lasting relationships, o ering trusted advice and delivering personalized guidance.

The son of two educators, Chris earned both the Certified Financial Planner (CFP) and Certified Private Wealth Advisor (CPWA) designations, and once studied with the head of the Federal Reserve of India. Chris earned his Bachelor of Arts degree in Economics and Finance at Clark University, where he also played varsity basketball. He earned the CPWA designation through the Booth School of Business at the University of Chicago.

Prior to starting Stablepoint Partners, Chris was a Managing Director at Morgan Stanley, the highest title attributed to Financial Advisors, where he and his partner, Henry Wheelwright led one of the top performing teams at the firm. Prior to Morgan Stanley, Chris and The Griffith Wheelwright Group team spent eight years at UBS Financial Services where they were recognized as rising stars in their field. Since their original launch in 2001, Chris and his team’s focus was, and remains to be, to work alongside clients to understand their life goals and develop a personalized wealth strategy to get them there. Chris and Henry have grown their practice one conversation at a time, for over 20 years through three bear markets, the Great Recession, Covid, and a devastating financial crisis.

The combination of his experience and knowledge of the financial world, and an innate passion to help others made a career in wealth management a natural fit for Chris. In 2018, Chris was named as one of the “Top 40 Under 40” in the Financial Advice industry by Investment News, and a “Best in State Wealth Advisor” by Forbes every year since 2019. Chris attributes his accomplishments to the personal and professional bonds he’s established with clients over the years.

Outside of his work with clients, Chris most enjoys spending time with his family. He and his wife, Erin live in Norwell, Massachusetts with their two children, C.J. and Wesley. You’ll often find Chris on the sidelines coaching youth basketball or on the golf course, caddying for his sons. Chris and his family are actively involved in several charitable organizations, making giving back to those in need a priority together.

Henry J. Wheelwright, CFP®
Managing Partner, Co-Founder

As a Managing Partner and Co-Founder of Stablepoint Partners, Henry believes in ensuring that every financial decision reflects the short, medium, and long-term goals of every client. His client relationships continue to be built on a foundation of trust, ongoing communication, and timely execution by his seasoned Stablepoint Partners team of professionals.

As a Certified Financial Planner (CFP) with over two decades of experience as a financial advisor, Henry is a centerpiece of counsel for his clients where he begins all relationships as their Fiduciary, focusing on a personalized financial plan that develops, implements, and executes investment strategies to meet their goals and planning needs.

Henry’s interest in finance started at an early age. He was raised in Manhattan, where his mother was a journalist at Money magazine. She brought him to the Stock Exchange and mock investment classes which he credits for initiating his passion for wealth management. His style is personal, proactive, and educational with a goal to help his clients live better lives through investment and financial planning support.

Henry received his Bachelor of Arts in Economics and Finance at Clark University, where he both pitched for their varsity baseball team and met his long-time friend and co-founding Stablepoint partner Chris Griffith. Both Co-Founders credit their collegiate athletic careers, and many years as close friends, as leading to a coaching and advice-driven approach to the clients of Stablepoint Partners. Both Henry and his wealth management team have been recognized by Forbes as Best-In-State Financial Advisors and have been considered top performers at their previous firms.

Henry started his wealth management career in 2001, working at A.G. Edwards, UBS Financial Services, and most recently Morgan Stanley, prior to founding the Independent Registered Investment Advisory Firm (RIA) Stablepoint Partners with Chris. This was an important transition to independence that is focused on the clients of the practice, and the core values of independent and object advice, innovation, and reimagining the client wealth management experience.

Henry lives in the Squantum section of Quincy with his wife Kim and his two children Olivia and William. For Henry, his family and community remain important parts of his life outside of Stablepoint Partners. He is a trustee at the First Congregational Church of Squantum, and enjoys golf, basketball, and staying engaged with the non-profits in his surrounding community.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Bryan Sweet, Founder, CEO, Wealth Advisor – Sweet Financial PartnersOverviewBryan Sweet of Sweet Financial Partners shares the ultimate independent business growth story, starting with 32 years under the Raymond James BD umbrella, then as an RIA, and most recently selling to Carson Wealth.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…There are different milestones business owners look to achieve along the path of independence.

For example, over the course of three decades, Bryan Sweet built and grew an independent business under the Raymond James broker dealer umbrella.

Bryan felt he needed access to a broader range of products and solutions and a greater degree of control over his business, so he decided to launch an RIA with the support of Dynasty Financial Partners.

Then, Bryan completed what many consider the coup de grâce in the independent wealth management business lifecycle: Sweet Financial Partners sold to Carson Wealth.

Today, Bryan shares the journey of his billion-dollar business with Louis Diamond, including:

• Building an independent business at Raymond James—and what kept Sweet Financial there for so long.
• The motivations for launching an RIA—and why Bryan felt he needed to flex his entrepreneurial muscles after 32 years.
• The benefits of an RIA vs. the IBD model—and what additional value his clients realized.
• Key growth strategies—and how they evolved with each model.
• The sale to Carson—and why now.

It’s the ultimate independent business growth story: A candid conversation that offers detail into each phase of Sweet Financial’s lifecycle, with advice on the due diligence process, the motivations, and the results.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesA Comparison Fact Sheet – IBD vs RIA
When it comes to freedom and control, there are key differences amongst the independent broker dealer (IBD) and registered investment advisor (RIA) spaces that every advisor should be aware of.

Should I Stay or Should I Go? An Advisor’s Guide to Thinking Through Their Biggest Decision
Jason Diamond turns the tables on Mindy who offers a first-hand glimpse into her book, Should I Stay or Should I Go?, created specifically for financial advisors who are looking to optimize their businesses or thinking through the biggest decision of their lives.

IBD vs. RIA Revisited: Two Independent Pathways for Advisors to Consider
When it comes to freedom and control, there are key differences between the independent broker dealer (IBD) and registered investment advisor (RIA) spaces that every advisor should be aware of.

Bryan J. Sweet CLU, ChFC, MSFS
Founder, CEO, Wealth Advisor – Sweet Financial Partners

As a Forbes Best-in-State Wealth Advisor for multiple years running, Bryan has been on the mission to help people live their retirement dreams since the start of his career in financial services back in 1979. It is because of this that he created his proprietary The Dream Architect™, which not only helps his clients maximize their distribution planning in retirement, but also helps them strive for and accomplish their biggest dreams.

With Bryan’s vast industry experience, he is also partnered in multiple entities including the Elite Wealth Advisor Symposium, which supports high-performing financial advisors across the United States in the growth and scaling of their businesses. He and his partners do this through teachings on team engagement, marketing, automation, best practices, and all that it takes to build a high-class and scalable advisory practice.

The bottom line is that Bryan thrives on helping others experience the growth and freedom that he has created in building a world-class financial services practice, all while living the life of his dreams.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Jason Diamond & Mindy DiamondOverviewWhat drives the industry’s top advisors and teams? This special episode with Jason and Mindy Diamond explores the traits that drive their success, as well as the challenges they face.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Reaching the upper echelon of success in the wealth management world is something that many advisors strive for. The reality is that the path there is not an easy one—the result of which is driven by design, not left to happenstance.

So how do they get there?

No doubt, elite advisors possess unique mindsets and methodologies that contribute to their growth. And there’s much that advisors at every level can learn from the industry’s superstars.

In this special Industry Update, Jason Diamond and Mindy Diamond explore the topic, including:

• How do we define an “elite” advisor or team?
• What makes these individuals and teams stand out from others?
• What do they focus on?
• How do they think about their businesses?
• What are their pain points?
• What challenges do they face?
• What options are available to them should they decide to consider change?
• Plus, much more.

It’s an episode that offers strategic insights for advisors and teams at all levels.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesBuilding Enterprise Value: A Coach’s Advice for Advisors and Teams
Ray Sclafani of ClientWise discusses the key areas that employee advisors and independent business owners can impact to influence sustainable growth, enhance client relationships, and ultimately build “exit” value.

Of Myths and Moving 2024
What’s the reality when it comes to recruiting and transitions? An annual perspective for advisors.

The Strategic Due Diligence Roadmap
A visual guide to help financial advisors embark upon an efficient process—one that is more likely to result in discovering Your Best Business Life™.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Gerry Spitzer — Founding Partner, Questar Capital PartnersOverviewGerry Spitzer of Questar Capital Partners discusses leaving the wirehouse world after 30 years to launch an independent firm, sharing a perspective of building a business at Merrill and, more recently, UBS, and why focused, niche businesses may be better served in the independent space.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Many of the most successful financial advisors agree that having a clear and succinct value proposition is critical. Equally important is the ability to deliver on it. For many advisors, the latter can be difficult—particularly those in large wirehouses, who are often limited in the services they can provide to their clients.

And it’s that very reason that many leave the big brokerage firms and start their own independent businesses.

Gerry Spitzer built an extraordinary business in the wirehouse world. After starting with the Merrill training program, he met his partner, Richard Reyle. Together, they invested 20 years at the firm, building a practice focused on exit planning and ESOP strategies to help business owners monetize their lives’ work.

Yet, like many of their peers, they felt things changed at Merrill once Bank of America took over. After careful due diligence, independence seemed like a bridge too far at the time, while UBS offered the support and strategic alignment they desired, along with the ability to serve their unique client niche.

A decade later, after building the business to some $850mm in assets under management, they decided it was time to consider their own succession plan and path to monetization—and they didn’t see UBS as the right partner for this part of their journey.

The independent space had matured quite a bit since they last looked around, so in 2022, Gerry and Richard left UBS to launch Questar Capital Partners with support from Sanctuary Wealth.

Today, they are managing $1B in client assets and see this as only the beginning of their new chapter…a chance to unlock a world of opportunity.

In this episode, Gerry shares his story with Louis Diamond, including:

• The changes in the wirehouses that motivated them to explore—and why they ultimately chose independence in their second transition.
• Their exponential growth at Questar—and what is fueling their current momentum.
• Serving a niche client base—and how they can better do so in the independent space.
• The value of partnerships—and how the dynamics between Gerry and Richard is a key factor in their success.
• The counsel they provide to their clients around retirement and exit planning—and how those conversations impacted their own decision-making process.

It’s a digest of advice for all employee advisors who are considering how best to serve their clients, especially those with a niche practice. Plus, Gerry offers advice on the due diligence process, which we are happy to have guided them through—so be sure to listen in.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesDiamond Consultants Advisor Transition Report 2024: Focus on MerrillThis “firm-focused report” looks under the hood at movement to and from Merrill from January to June of 2024.

Merrill Information Hub
A curated list of top-of-mind content for Merrill Advisors

Gerry Spitzer, CEPA, CPA, CPWA
Co-founder

Gerry Spitzer co-founded Questar Capital Partners in 2022 with his business partner Richard Reyle following a career that spanned more than 30 years in Wealth Management. Gerry founded his own independent firm with a team of experienced, likeminded advisors who share a deep understanding of the financial industry and a passion for helping individuals and businesses achieve their goals.

At Questar, Gerry focuses on all aspects of private wealth management, including investment management, financial planning, multi-generational estate planning, tax planning and minimization, insurance and charitable giving.

Gerry spent his career at both Merrill Lynch and UBS before going independent. During the years at Merrill, he worked with publicly held companies managing their equity compensation plans and deferred compensation plans. At UBS and beyond, the focus has been working with privately held businesses on exit transactions, primarily ESOPs.

Gerry is a Certified Exit Planning Advisor (CEPA) as well as the President of the New Jersey Chapter of the Exit Planning Institute (EPI). Gerry works closely with privately held business owners, advising them on exit and succession planning, liquidity needs and Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs). As New Jersey Chapter EPI President, he creates a forum where the local community of professional advisors can collaborate. The New Jersey chapter also develops educational programs for business owners and professional advisors to build awareness and better prepare business owners for the successful exit of their business.

In addition to being a CPA and CEPA, Gerry is on the Rutgers Center for Employee Ownership Advisory Board, a member of the Forbes Finance Council, on the Board of the National Alliance on Mental Illness of New York and involved with financial literacy topics. Gerry and his wife Jeanne have three daughters and live in Scotch Plains, NJ. He is an avid golfer, traveler, and Jets and Syracuse University sports fan. Gerry earned a BS in Accounting from Binghamton University’s School of Management.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Michael Nathanson — CEO, Focus Financial PartnersOverviewMichael Nathanson shares his vision for Focus, offering a unique insider’s perspective on the firm’s evolution and differentiators, and how that plays into the future of independence. Plus, he offers thoughts on his own transition to CEO and advice for advisors and business leaders.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…“How the vision has grown.”

That’s a headline on the Focus Financial Partners website. And there’s a lot of truth in that statement.

Founded in 2004 by Rudy Adolf, Lenny Chang, and Rajini Kodialam, the American Express alums recognized an opportunity to expand access to capital for independent advisors looking to achieve scale and increase growth, as well as monetize their life’s work.

In a conversation on this series in 2022, Rudy shared his vision and literal history of the firm’s role in transforming the independent space. Then, a year later, Rudy, Lenny, and Rajini left to explore new endeavors.

Michael Nathanson is now the CEO of Focus Financial Partners, taking the helm of a new generation of growth for the Focus ecosystem, which has grown to more than 90 partner firms in more than 38 states, plus Australia, Canada, Switzerland, and the U.K.

Michael was the CEO of one such partner firm, The Colony Group, when he was a guest on our show in 2023. Michael described how Focus was the right solution to help them grow their firm from $1B to $20B.

In this episode, Michael talks candidly with Louis Diamond about his new role as the CEO of Focus, including:

• The firm’s evolution—and how his own experience can serve to drive further growth.
• The role of “interdependence”—and how that concept plays into his vision for Focus.
• The transition from public to privately-held company—and what that means for partner firms.
• Key differentiators—and what prospective advisors and firms need to know about their culture and values.
• Their rebranding initiative—and how it reflects their strategy, vision, and path going forward.

Plus, Michael shares his thoughts on the future of independence and much more. It’s rare access to a leader who built his wealth management career from the ground up—a unique lesson for advisors and business leaders alike.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesOne-on-One with Rudy Adolf: How Focus Financial Partners Revolutionized RIA M&A—and Went Public in the ProcessIndustry legend Rudy Adolf describes how the idea of Focus Financial Partners came to be, filling a gap in how independent financial advisors accessed capital, resources and monetized their life’s work, plus the firm’s journey as a public company, their growth, how they are further evolving and more.

20X Growth in 10 Years: A $20B RIA on Embracing the Value of Private Equity and InterdependenceMichael Nathanson of The Colony Group discusses how “interdependence” helped foster the growth of the RIA; the real value of equity partner Focus Financial; and their unique culture, curated services, and acquisition strategy, and more.

Michael Nathanson
Chief Executive Officer

Michael Nathanson is a highly respected and experienced leader in the wealth management industry. As Chief Executive Officer, Michael plays a pivotal role in driving organizational change and spearheading a range of firm-wide initiatives. He is relentlessly dedicated to bringing meaning and joy to the lives of clients, his team, and throughout the Focus Partnership, by fostering a culture that values lifelong learning, cultivates innovation, and offers opportunities to live lives full of passion and purpose.

Michael’s passion is reflected in the recognition he has received, having been selected ten times by Barron’s magazine as one of the top 100 independent financial advisors in the nation, included in Worth magazine’s list of the country’s top 250 wealth advisors and recognized as one of ThinkAdvisor’s 2022 LUMINARIES winners for Executive Leadership. He also was selected six times as a “Super Lawyer,” as published in Massachusetts Super Lawyers. During his tenure as Chief Executive Officer and Chair of The Colony Group, he is most proud of the firm being named one of 50 firms as a Best Place To Work for Financial Advisors by InvestmentNews.

As a lifelong learner, he is committed to sharing his knowledge and experience with clients, colleagues, and the next generation of industry leaders and is a frequent speaker at industry conferences. He also has served on the Fidelity Clearing and Custody Solutions Advisor Council and the Schwab Advisor Services Advisory Board. Previously, he served on the Board of Advisors for Boston University’s Program for Financial Planners and as Co-Chairman of the Boston Bar Association.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Tony Smith — CEO, Stonegate Investment GroupOverviewTony Smith of Stonegate Investment Group discusses transitioning from UBS after 14 years and $4.4B in AUM to independence and building the business to $6B, including the motivations to make a change at this stage of his career, how they achieved such extraordinary growth in a short time, and much more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…“Constrained.”

It’s a word that many advisors who live in the wirehouse world use when describing the motivations around their move.

It’s a descriptor that demonstrates the feeling of a lack of freedom to serve clients and grow the business in a way that resonates with their vision—and not the mandates of a larger firm, bank entity, or shareholders.

Tony Smith was one of a team of seven at UBS serving HNW clients, generating some $18mm in annual revenue and managing assets in the vicinity of $4.4B.

Yet the feeling that things had changed during his 14-year tenure at the firm had grown stronger over time. Increasing constraints, bureaucracy, and an overall lack of freedom—all threads that Tony saw as a common symptom of life in the big brokerage firms.

And ultimately, the desire to have greater flexibility and autonomy became a strong pull to consider independence.

With two team members having some 5 decades in the industry each, one might think independence was a bridge too far. Yet Tony led the team in their launch of Stonegate Investment Group to achieve what they describe as an unconstrained and highly personalized experience for their high net worth clients.

And since its launch in 2021, Stonegate has grown to managing $6B in client assets.

Tony shares an incredible story of growth with Mindy Diamond, including:

• After growing the business to $4.4B, why Tony and his team chose to explore their options—and why they opted for independence.
• The limitations they experienced at UBS—and how independence offers them greater latitude in serving their clients.
• The complacency plateau—and how never reaching it is key to building an extraordinary business.
• “Your clients, your business, your self”—and why Tony feels it’s a long-term decision that should be thought through in that order.
• And much more.

It’s an incredible story that offers a perspective on why advisors seek change and how that motivation and clarity around goals can result in extraordinary growth—relevant to employee advisors and business owners alike.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesDiamond Consultants Advisor Transition Report 2024 – Focus on UBSThis “firm-focused report” seeks to look under the hood at movement to and from UBS from January to June of 2024.

The Juggling Act: Balancing Short-Term Needs and Long-Term GoalsA process to help you identify and prioritize your immediate needs vs goals for the future when considering a move.

Rapid Reaction: UBS Comp Plan Changes and the Impact on AdvisorsLouis Diamond offers a perspective for UBS advisors on the firm’s compensation plan changes announced on November 21. It’s an episode for advisors who are curious about the updates and how they can use this knowledge to make informed decisions.

Tony Smith
CEO

Tony Smith is the CEO of Stonegate Investment Group and has been advising wealthy families and institutions for more than three decades. Tony also serves as the Chief Investment Officer at Stonegate. After beginning his career in corporate finance, Tony advised Ultra-High Net Worth family groups at Smith Barney for 15 years. In 2007, Tony and his entire team joined UBS Financial Services, where he served as Managing Director – Investments and Senior Portfolio Manager and Branch Manager. Tony has been recognized as one of the nation’s top financial advisors by Barron’s, the Financial Times and Forbes, ranking as Barron’s top Financial Advisor in Alabama in 2018 – 2021. In 2021, Barron’s named Tony’s team as one of the Top 100 Private Wealth Management teams in the country. Tony has been ranked in Barron’s 2023 Top 100 Independent Advisors and the #2 Financial Advisor in Alabama. In July 2021, Tony and his partners formed Stonegate Investment Group, LLC., an independent Registered Investment Advisory firm.

Tony has been happily married to his high school sweetheart, Tammy, for 38 years. He has two children Justine (34) and Haley (30), and 3 grandchildren. He enjoys hunting, fishing, spending time at his farm, and traveling.

Tony holds a BS in Finance and an MBA from the University of Alabama at Birmingham.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

An Annual Digest for Financial Advisors – 2024 Edition, with Louis DiamondOverviewA compendium of advice extracted from 48 episodes of the 2024 season of the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors, including the importance of your “Why,” the most compelling reasons for change, being a “true” fiduciary, unique value propositions, and more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…When we started this series back in 2017, we had no idea how many meaningful conversations we would have with top financial advisors, C-suite executives, entrepreneurs, and thought leaders.

It’s gratifying when listeners share how a guest inspired them, or they learned something new, or how the conversations provided just the information they needed to help them create their best business life.

And that’s why we compile this annual recap episode: It offers listeners a digest of some of the best advice from our 2024 season guests.

In combing through 48 episodes, we extracted the most compelling themes and relatable guidance from your peers—and what we found in our conversations was amazing.

Many of the most successful advisors, business owners, leaders, and entrepreneurs share a common thread: They each place incredible value on their “why”—their personal motivations that serve as the foundation for their success and how the client is often at the heart of it.

The result is a compendium of advice on what it really takes to get from here to there—and ultimately take your practice from good to great!

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Featured in this episode…* Justin Berman, Co-Chairman at Cresset and Founder of Berman Capital Advisors * Brett Bernstein, CEO and Co-Founder, XML Financial Group * Allan Boomer, Partner and CIO, Momentum Advisors * Jeff Brown, President, Stratos Private Wealth * Matt Brown, Founder, Chairman, and CEO, CAIS * Brent Chappell, Managing Partner and Co-Founder, Chappell Wealth Management * Jerry Davidse, CEO, Presilium Private Wealth * Michael Henley, Founder & CEO, Brandywine Oak Private Wealth * Michael Kitces, Industry Thought Leader and Chief Financial Planning Nerd * Matt Liebman, CEO, Amplius Wealth Advisors * Barry Mitchell, Founder & Managing Director, Next Level Private * Erik Morgan, President, Senior Partner, Freestone Capital * Angie Ostendarp, Senior Managing Partner, Carnegie Private Wealth * Taylor Pankratz, President and Co-Founder, Holistic Planning * Jordan Raniszeski, Senior Managing Partner, Carnegie Private Wealth * Mike Quin, Managing Partner, DayMark Wealth Partners

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Bill Good, Founder & Chairman, and Frantz Widmaier, Chief Executive Officer, Bill Good MarketingOverviewA free session on accelerating growth via marketing with one of the leading firms in the wealth management industry. They offer advice on the value of content, the referral process, building strategic partnerships, CRMs and technology, and much more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Marketing touches all aspects of what a firm says, how daily business is conducted, how clients are retained, and how prospects are attracted.

It’s an essential practice that, when done strategically and thoughtfully, can be the biggest game-changer for every advisor’s practice.

And when it comes to marketing in the wealth management industry, Bill Good is one of the top names in the space.

As the founder of Bill Good Marketing, Bill and his team focused on not just the messaging but also the delivery and processes around client acquisition and retention, as well as practice management—because messaging is only one piece of the puzzle for a successful wealth management business. Advisors and firms also need solid processes in place to run effectively and optimally serve clients.

Bill and his firm’s CEO, Frantz Widmaier, join Mindy Diamond to share salient tips, including:

• The value of content—and how there’s great power hidden in your written, spoken, and video messaging.
• Video best practices—and why mindset is the most important investment of your time and effort.
• Revolutionizing the referral process—and how you can adapt your own processes to leverage partners.
• Avoiding the “strategic one-way street”—and how to build real strategic relationships united for the benefit of the client.
• The proper use of a customer relationship management (CRM) tool—and how the connection with marketing is often the secret sauce to success.
• Key principles around time management—and how it surprisingly impacts all aspects of marketing and the client engagement processes.
• The efficacy of technology and AI—and why they are not replacements for advisors but enablers for growth.

This episode will get you thinking about the new year and beyond. You’ll walk away with valuable tips and advice on accelerating growth from an industry legend—action items you can start on today.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesInnovative Ways the Best Independent Firms Fuel Growth: A Special Industry Update
Independence allows advisors to create an unlimited menu of innovative value-add services for their clients. And as the industry landscape expands, employee advisors are finding ways to get in on the action. Learn specific examples of the various services offered by some of the industry’s leading independent firms.

What’s the ‘Real’ Value of a Financial Advisor’s Business?
A still red-hot RIA M&A market has many employee advisors pondering what their business could be worth on the open market. Here are 3 valuation scenarios to address that curiosity.

Michael Kitces on Advisor Wellbeing: How Autonomy is Trumping Income When it Comes to Advisor Happiness
Listen in for an insightful and revealing look into advisors’ minds and what really makes them happy, based on data from the latest Kitces survey. Learn the motivations and drivers that lead not only to success but to a better quality of life.

Bill Good
Chairman

Bill Good is the Chairman of Bill Good Marketing, Inc. With a career spanning decades, Bill has revolutionized financial advisory practices through the Bill Good Marketing System, a marketing system based on best practices. He has written two influential books, Prospecting Your Way to Sales Success and Hot Prospects, both of which are in print from Simon & Schuster. He has delivered thousands of seminars and has written 392 articles in major industry trade magazines.

Beyond his professional achievements, Bill is an avid reader and a passionate photographer. He enjoys walking his Shih Tzu, Pepper, and has been happily married to his wife Joava for 51 years.

Frantz Widmaier
CEO

Frantz Widmaier is a dynamic leader with a rich background in marketing, technology, business strategy and operations. Currently the CEO of Bill Good Marketing, Widmaier has been with the company since 2017, initially serving as Chief Operating Officer and then transitioning to CEO in 2021. He has been instrumental in driving the company’s technological innovation, aligning its growth, evolving its culture, and building a strong executive body so that the business can continue to serve the evolving needs of financial advisors. Under his leadership, Bill Good Marketing continues to build on its legacy of helping financial advisors grow their businesses through cutting-edge marketing and retention strategies.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Mindy Diamond & Louis DiamondOverviewMindy and Louis Diamond’s annual review is designed to provide guidance on the most impactful wealth management industry trends anticipated for 2025, including transitions, deals, comp, private equity, the wirehouse recruiting race, and more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…It’s time to turn the page on another year—and an exciting one it was.

The election activity aside, the wealth management industry made headlines on its own, with mega-teams on the move, massive M&A deals, and stunning leadership shifts.

What does this all mean for advisors?

How does this activity color the year ahead?

Mindy Diamond and Louis Diamond take their annual look back at the year past and share thoughts on the year ahead, including:

• Transitions: Will 2025 movement beat 2024?
• Deals: Will they head higher or recede?
• Compensation changes: What impact will they have on movement?
• Wirehouse recruiting: Which firms will be most prominent in the race for top talent?
• Private equity: Will it continue to drive M&A activity and RIA growth?
• Custodians: How will expansion impact the growth of the RIA space?
• And what’s the “next big thing” for 2025?

This is the one episode to listen to for guidance designed to help advisors and business owners alike inform their goal-setting and be better prepared to make decisions for the coming year with the power of knowledge behind them.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesOf Myths and Moving 2024
What’s the reality when it comes to recruiting and transitions? An annual perspective for advisors.

Mid-Year Report on Deals, Transitions, and Recruiting
Using the Diamond Consultants trademark data-driven analysis and insights on recruiting and deals, Louis and Jason Diamond share a “state of the recruiting industry” report for the first half of 2024, with perspectives on what to expect for the rest of the year.

Should I Stay or Should I Go?
The Book for Financial Advisors by Mindy Diamond.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Mike Quin – Managing Partner, DayMark Wealth PartnersOverviewMike Quin, a former Market Manager at Wells Fargo, left the wirehouse world to launch DayMark Wealth Partners. Mike offers a candid perspective on his experience and how it motivated him and his team to build an independent firm focused on their clients, the strategies behind their extraordinary growth from $1B to $4B, and other valuable lessons for employee advisors and business owners alike.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Many think that the breakaway movement is driven primarily by advisors—that is, those servicing clients and managing books of business yet attracted to the premise of being an entrepreneur and the prospect of building equity in the long term.

No doubt that’s true, but there’s also a trend of some of the biggest and brightest leaders in the industry who are equally motivated to execute their vision beyond the hallowed walls where they honed their leadership skills.

Mike Quin’s 26 years in the industry, for example, was primarily in senior leadership roles at Morgan Stanley, UBS, and, most recently, Wells Fargo Advisors as the Ohio Market Manager, where he was recognized as a Premier Manager each year.

In Mike’s view, his role was to work with financial advisors and their clients. Yet, over time, he felt the big firms were changing their perspective of the client side.

So, like many returning to the office after COVID, Mike and his advisor friends who ran their own practices at Wells found themselves thinking about the value they received from the firm—and whether they could fully serve clients with impunity.

In this episode, Mike joins Louis Diamond to talk about his decision to break away and their extraordinary growth from $1B to $4B, including:

• Specific pain points he experienced at Wells—and how that drives his vision for success.
• Building a team—and how individual advisors came together to create DayMark Wealth Partners.
• Life in a leadership role—and how his experience in the wirehouses differs from that of DayMark.
• The importance of staying true to their clients—and how building with intentionality is helping them to deliver better service.
• Their strategy for growth—and how recruiting the right advisors and teams plays into their plans.

It’s an important conversation with someone who saw the wirehouse world from the top down and is willing to candidly share his experiences—offering sage advice for employee advisors and business owners alike.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesShould You and a Non-Partner Colleague Transition Together?
There are valid reasons to consider changing firms or models with a colleague. But is it right for you?

Innovative Ways the Best Independent Firms Fuel Growth: A Special Industry Update
Independence allows advisors to create an unlimited menu of innovative value-add services for their clients. And as the industry landscape expands, employee advisors are finding ways to get in on the action. Learn specific examples of the various services offered by some of the industry’s leading independent firms.

The Employee Advisor’s “Gut Check”
Have you had that “feeling in your gut” that says, “I’m not sure that where I am is allowing me to serve my clients best?” Many advisors get stuck at this point, uncertain of how to qualify whether the feeling has any basis in reality. We’ve created the “Employee Advisor’s Gut Check” tool. With it, you’ll be armed with the right criteria by which to evaluate your current firm, as well as any others you may be considering.

Mike Quin
Managing Partner/CEO

Mike Quin is one of the seven founders of DayMark Wealth Partners. Mike is responsible for managing the firm and growing the business through acquiring elite advisory practices across the country. He is focused on delivering a unique Multi-Family Office strategy to only the very best Advisors who choose DayMark. Through DayMark’s triangulation of advice, he has created a model that helps navigate possible conflicts of interest in which Advisors, for their clients, are able to create, build and preserve Generations’ Worth of Wealth.

Mike has 26 years’ experience in the Private Wealth Management Industry. Mike has spent most of his career in Senior Leadership running the Private Client Group Businesses in Ohio and Connecticut at UBS, Morgan Stanley, and most recently, Wells Fargo Advisors. During his time at Wells Fargo Advisors Mike served as The Ohio Market Manager and was recognized as a Premier Manager every year he was with the firm. Mike also was a member of the Executive Committee for the firms Women’s Initiative.

A graduate of Ohio University, he also attended The Wharton School where he received the SIFMA Certificate from Securities Industry Institute. Mike sits on the Board of the Karen Carns Foundation and is involved in many initiatives to help children throughout the communities in which DayMark does business. Mike enjoys playing golf, skiing, or any activity with his family. He is married to Christina, who also attended Ohio University. They have three kids, Jack (23) who recently graduated (University of Cincinnati) and is now working in the area with Altafiber, Kate (21), who a Senior year at the University of South Carolina, and Kevin who is a Sophomore at the Carl H. Lindner College of Business, University of Cincinnati.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Steve Brennan — Managing Director, Head of Private Wealth Solutions, Hamilton LaneOverview

Steve Brennan, Managing Director and Head of Private Wealth Solutions from one of the leading private markets firms offers a unique perspective on the space, including how democratized access has helped foster growth beyond the wirehouses, the impact on an advisor’s business, innovations and trends, and much more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…The private markets space has experienced tremendous growth over the last 20 years. From private equity to private credit and direct investments, clients have come to expect their advisors to have broad access to bespoke and interesting opportunities.

And firms like Hamilton Lane rose to the challenge to make that possible.

Founded in 1991, Hamilton Lane has become one of the largest and most respected private markets investment firms worldwide. Initially, the firm focused on private equity consulting, providing institutional investors with insights into the growing landscape of private assets.

Their focus on data-driven insights and customized solutions has made them a key player in the race to democratize access to private markets serving large institutions, individual investors, and family offices through tailored products and strategies.

In a space that’s growing by leaps and bounds, how can an advisor determine the best path for their clients?

Steve Brennan, Managing Director and Head of Private Wealth Solutions at the firm joins Louis Diamond to answer that and more, including:

• Access to private markets—and what advisors need to consider when looking for a solutions partner.
• Fostering growth—and how offering access to clients can enhance an advisor’s bottom line.
• The competition—and how Hamilton Lane compares to other options.
• The innovations and trends Steve’s seeing—and how each can impact an advisor’s business.

It’s an educational episode with valuable information for employee advisors and independent business owners alike. Steve provides an informed perspective from one of the leading private markets firms in the world.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesInnovative Ways the Best Independent Firms Fuel Growth: A Special Industry UpdateIndependence allows advisors to create an unlimited menu of innovative value-add services for their clients. And as the industry landscape expands, employee advisors are finding ways to get in on the action. Learn specific examples of the various services offered by some of the industry’s leading independent firms.

Is The End Near at The Wirehouses?The headlines, reports, and data all seem to indicate that the model is tagged for extinction. But is that really the case?

Wealth Management Landscape At A Glance: Focus on IndependenceIn a greatly evolved industry landscape, the independent space has expanded to offer a variety of models with varying levels of freedom and flexibility. Which one might be right for you? This “Landscape at a Glance” focuses on independence, providing the key features of each model.

Steve Brennan
Managing Director and Head of Private Wealth Solutions

Steve is a Managing Director and Head of Private Wealth Solutions, leading the firm’s efforts to provide both evergreen and traditional private markets solutions to the growing Private Wealth channel. In this capacity he sets the strategic direction and oversees all aspects of the Private Wealth Solutions business.

Previously, Steve held numerous leadership roles in Hamilton Lane’s institutional business including Global Head of Business Development. Steve serves as a member of the firm’s Investment Committee and Evergreen Portfolio Committee. Prior to joining Hamilton Lane in 2002, Steve held relationship management and investment support roles at Goldman Sachs (GSAM) and BNY Mellon.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Louis DiamondOverviewLouis Diamond offers a perspective for UBS advisors on the firm’s compensation plan changes announced on November 21. It’s an episode for advisors who are curious about the updates and how they can use this knowledge to make informed decisions.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…On November 21, UBS Wealth Management announced sweeping changes to its advisor compensation plan.

As consultants to financial advisors, our role is to provide guidance on anything that can potentially impact their ability to optimally serve clients and grow their businesses.

The goal of this episode is to take a step back and provide UBS advisors with some context on this important issue: a lens through which to consider their business in a more strategic way and to understand how these changes might stack up to competitors in the industry.

Louis Diamond shares his perspective for UBS advisors, including:

• The key elements of the changes to the UBS compensation plan.
• The ramifications for individual advisors, and teams large and small.
• Who is impacted the most and how.
• How this compares to compensation plan changes at other wirehouses.
• And steps an advisor could take to learn more.

This episode is for UBS advisors who are curious about the plan changes, what they mean for their business lives, and how this knowledge can help them make informed decisions in the future.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Jason Diamond and Louis DiamondOverviewJason and Louis Diamond explore strategies for maximizing enterprise value, whether or not an advisor plans to move. Learn actionable insights, key business practices, short-term vs. long-term tactics, and real-world examples.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…All advisors, regardless of whether they are content where they are, are considering a move, or are in the process of doing so, would be wise to reconcile questions like:
How much is my book worth?
How portable is my book?
And,
How will this firm help me to increase the ultimate enterprise value of my business?

Maximizing value is typically the goal of any advisor, regardless of whether they are pondering a move or not—and the reality is that movement is not, and should not, be a precursor to focusing on optimizing your enterprise value.

So then what should an advisor who may not be considering change be thinking about?

In this special Industry Update, Jason Diamond and Louis Diamond talk about the key components of an advisor’s business that impact enterprise value.

Listen in to learn:

• The economics—and how an advisor can determine their maximum career enterprise value (or MaxCEV as we call it).
• Setting up the business for success—including logistical and operational practices you should be reviewing on an ongoing basis.
• Looking at the short-term and the long-term—and how each requires different strategies and tactics.

Plus, they share real-world examples of the factors that make a business more “attractive” and how that impacts value and strategic shifts for advisors who may never make a move but are set on maximizing their carer enterprise value.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesHow to Maximize Your Career Enterprise ValueThis formula provides a process by which an advisor can “calculate” the sum total of 4 key factors—to conceptualize what their career enterprise value really is and how to achieve it. It’s one of the central tenets of Diamond Consultants’ process in guiding advisors through due diligence.

Top Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a MoveIn this document, we have compiled the most salient tips collected from over two decades of helping our advisor-clients through successful transitions.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Allan Boomer – Partner, Chief Investment Officer of Momentum AdvisorsOverviewAllan Boomer, the CIO of Momentum Advisors, shares his journey from a working-class background to an internship at Merrill and later landing at Goldman. In this episode, he discusses leaving Goldman to gain the ability to act as a true fiduciary in independence, the role of diversity as his “superpower,” his vision for a “100-year business,” his focus on long-term growth, and more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Many of the most successful advisors start off in a place unlike the world they practice in.

For Allan Boomer, discussing the stock market at dinner or reading the Wall Street Journal wasn’t a part of his upbringing. However, hard work and strong family values were the major factors that influenced his formative years.

In high school, Allan joined a corporate internship program that offered him a summer position at Merrill, which changed his life’s trajectory.

After graduating from NYU’s Stern School of Business, he landed at Goldman Sachs and dug into his strong work ethic and determination to build his experience and book.

He recalls how his colleagues had family or friends they could call on to help them build their businesses, but he didn’t have that same reach as a young Black man in a working-class community.

Allan took several leaps of faith over the years, ultimately leaving Goldman – and much of his book on the table – to become a true fiduciary. Today, Momentum Advisors manages $400mm in assets with 10 employees.

In this episode, Allan shares how that vision drives him with host Louis Diamond and offers a unique perspective on growth, including:

• The factors that led him to leave Goldman—and why he chose independence.
• Being a true fiduciary to his clients—and why he could not accomplish that at the brokerage firm.
• The role of diversity in wealth management—and why he sees it as his “superpower.”
• The value of youth—and how he and his team use it to their advantage.
• Building a “100-year business”—and what that means to him, his team, and his clients.

Allan’s story is relevant and relatable for advisors at all levels, with a point of view on building for the long term from which all advisors can learn.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe 5 Attributes That Make a Financial Advisor a “Real” FiduciaryWirehouse advisors are recognizing that being a true fiduciary is impossible as an employee—and it’s adding more fuel to the flow of movement to independence.

The Path to Independence: 6 Key Elements to Consider Before Starting Your JourneyWith so many options to choose from, how does an advisor decide which path to independence to take?

Your Guide to the Wealth Management Landscape: An At-A-Glance Map for Financial AdvisorsAn “at-a-glance” continuum infographic to serve as your guide to the different models and their relative features.

Allan Boomer

Allan Boomer is the Founder and Chief Investment Officer of Momentum Advisors — a certified minority-owned investment management and financial planning firm in New York City with over $350 million in assets under management.

Outside of his role at Momentum, Allan is an active investor in real estate and franchise businesses. He and his partners own nine ZIPS Dry Cleaning franchise stores and are the largest franchisee in the ZIPS system. Additionally, he is the co-host of “The Momentum Advisors Show,” a weekly podcast which educates the public about building wealth through investments, financial literacy and entrepreneurship.

Allan holds an MBA in Finance from the NYU Stern School of Business, where he was a Robert A. Toigo Fellow, and a BS in Marketing from Morgan State University.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Susan McKenna, CEO, eMoneyOverviewSusan McKenna, CEO of eMoney, explores the fintech firm’s evolution, competitive edge, and the role of technology in wealth management. She discusses how eMoney’s tools foster client conversations and enhance experiences, shares insights on the future, and more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…It goes without saying that technology has been a mass disruptor in every industry.

In wealth management, fintech, as it’s referred to, has set the foundation for growth and efficiency with companies like eMoney leading the charge.

Nearly 25 years ago, eMoney Advisor hit the scene, providing a tool to help make advisors more efficient by leveraging the internet with a platform that allowed clients to access a “living breathing plan”—as opposed to a binder of documents that became stale shortly after delivery.

Today, eMoney continues to help create efficiencies for advisors and foster conversations with their clients about money by leveraging a suite of tools designed to empower planning and elevate the client experience.

So how can advisors best leverage technology like eMoney? What’s the real impact of fintech on an advisor’s business? And what is the next big disruptor everyone in wealth management should be aware of? We invited the CEO of eMoney, Susan McKenna, to join Jason Diamond on the show, to answer those questions and more, including:

• The role of technology in wealth management—and how it serves as both an instigator and disruptor.
• The crowded landscape of fintech—and how eMoney stands out among the rest.
• The eMoney unique value proposition—and how education and community play a large role in their success.
• The gap that eMoney recognized early on—and how their solutions went beyond the initial need they identified.
• The relationship between client experience and growth—and how eMoney’s tools offer a competitive advantage.
• The impact of AI on the industry—and how she perceives the future from the eyes of the advisor.

Susan offers a unique perspective as someone who grew up through the ranks of the firm and drives an interesting conversation that describes the evolution of eMoney and the financial planning world—and technology’s role within it. It’s an episode that advisors at all levels and firms will learn from.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesConducting a Strategic Due Diligence Process: 10 Practical Tips for Financial AdvisorsBased on decades of experience in helping guide advisors through the due diligence journey, we compiled these 10 tips to serve as a practical guide to navigating the process with efficiency.

The Gears of Change: How Evolving Expectations of 3 Key Stakeholders is Driving More Advisor Movement Than Ever BeforeFinancial advisors are seeking greener pastures that offer the ability to achieve something better for themselves and their clients.

Innovative Ways the Best Independent Firms Fuel Growth: A Special Industry UpdateIndependence allows advisors to create an unlimited menu of innovative value-add services for their clients. And as the industry landscape expands, employee advisors are finding ways to get in on the action. Learn specific examples of the various services offered by some of the industry’s leading independent firms.

Susan McKenna
CEO

As CEO, Susan oversees the execution of eMoney’s vision and business strategy in addition to managing its cross-functional, core leadership team. Before being named CEO in 2022, Susan was eMoney’s Head of Marketing and Sales where she led all activities that accommodate the underlying demand for financial advice, drive revenue and growth, and increase brand awareness.

Susan joined eMoney in 2018 with an extensive background in leadership and aiding companies to grow and scale. She has more than 30 years of experience, specifically in software and services for both major global market leaders and smaller rapid growth businesses. Prior to joining eMoney, she held senior positions at Billtrust, Revitas (sold to Model N), Princeton Softech (sold to IBM), and Deloitte. Susan graduated from Drexel University with a Bachelor of Science in marketing.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Dylan O’Shea, Partner, Quorum Private WealthOverviewDylan O’Shea offers a unique perspective from a growing advisor with a long runway who could have easily opted for a transition check but instead chose independence. He discusses why he joined Quorum Private Wealth, the value of their shared vision, infrastructure, and more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…The choice to leave the firm where you built your business often comes down to what we call the pushes and the pulls.

The pushes are typically those things that are limiting or frustrating you. The pulls are the desire to achieve something greater: A vision for a future that allows you to serve clients and grow the business with less friction and more potential.

It’s not uncommon to feel some pushes, but we find that advisors more frequently shared that they left their firm because they were pulled toward an option that offered “a better way.”

Dylan O’Shea is one such advisor who felt that pull.

For Dylan, it was an attraction that led him toward independence after 10 years of building a solo practice at Merrill—a tenure that included serving as a coach for the financial advisor training program and as Chair of Merrill’s NextGen Leadership Council, and ultimately generating $1mm in annual revenue.

Yet, over time, the nagging sense that Merrill was “no longer his tribe,” as Dylan put it, became stronger—and he wanted to achieve more than he felt was possible at the firm.

As a young and growing advisor, Dylan watched as others left Merrill to follow their dreams and build independent firms that offered them greater freedom and control—which was a prospect that Dylan found attractive.

After conducting due diligence, Dylan decided to join former Merrill senior colleagues Kelly Milligan and Mike Barry at Quorum Private Wealth in 2022.

Dylan shares his story with Mindy Diamond, including:

• The specific pushes and pulls that he experienced—and what pulls were the tipping point.
• The draw to join independent firm Quorum—and how he found a new tribe in the process.
• The decision between taking a transition deal from another firm vs. independence—and why tucking into an existing firm was the path he chose.
• The value of infrastructure—and why scale, support, and experience was a key factor in his decision.

It’s a narrative that offers a unique perspective of a young, growing advisor with a long runway who could have easily opted for a transition check but instead chose independence, why he opted to tuck into an existing firm rather than build his own, and much more.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesEx-Merrill ACTM Chair to Independent Business Owner: A Former Insider’s Point of View
Kelly Milligan describes his journey at Merrill from zero to $1.5B in AUM, his role as Chair of the ACTM, the change in culture at the firm and how that motivated him and his team to launch independent firm Quorum Private Wealth.

Merrill Information Hub
A curated list of top-of-mind content for Merrill Advisors

Diamond Consultants Advisor Transition Report 2024: Focus on Merrill
This “firm-focused report” seeks to look under the hood at movement to and from Merrill from January to June of 2024.

Tuck-ins: Independence for Advisors Who Don’t Want to be That Independent
Giving up some control to gain additional freedom and flexibility is just right for many advisors considering independence.

Dylan O’Shea, CFP®Partner

After several years as a teacher, Dylan joined Merrill’s PMD training program in NYC, where over the next decade he built a solo advisory practice to over $1 million in annual revenue. He also earned the CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ designation, recognized as the highest industry credential.

While at Merrill, he also held leadership roles as Chair of Merrill’s NextGen Leadership Council and as a coach for the FA training program in Merrill’s Fifth Avenue NYC office.

In late 2022, Dylan left Merrill for supported independence with Quorum Private Wealth, a Bay-Area based firm, and launched the NYC Metro office. In 2023 and 2024, Quorum was named as one of Forbes/Shook Top RIA Firms.

When not out in nature or supporting his children’s extracurriculars, he can be found most weekends cheering on his beloved English Premier League soccer team, Tottenham Hotspur.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Erin Rocchio, Managing Partner of EvolutionOverviewAdvisors often face the fear of the unknown, feeling dissatisfied but stuck in “what ifs.” Erin Rocchio, coach and Managing Partner at Evolution, joins Mindy Diamond to share strategies that help advisors break free of this inertia, acknowledge fear, and open their minds to transformational change.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Many advisors reach a crossroads at some point in their careers, and it’s often rooted in the fear of the unknown.

While they may be dissatisfied with the firm they work for, they’re challenged by the “what ifs.” So much so, that they often can’t see “what could be.”

Yet, every day, there are advisors who choose to transition to another firm or model and ultimately transform their business lives.

How do they do it? Is it courage? Will? Knowledge? Or something else entirely?

Coach and Managing Partner of Evolution Erin Rocchio joins Mindy Diamond to explore the topic.

Erin has a unique knack for helping people dig deep and break free of the inertia that prevents them from moving forward. She and Mindy discuss strategies that she employs with her clients to create transformational change in our business lives, including:

• Acknowledging fear—and how it can leave you paralyzed and stuck in a place that you’re not happy with.
• Fostering an open mind—and how that will help you navigate out of your comfort zone.
• Embracing the “white space”—and why it should be a life-long practice to help you manage risk.
• Managing ambiguity and anxiety—and how we’re not wired to handle as much as we accept.
• Maintaining stability through change—and how to find a “middle ground.”
• Determining readiness for change—and how to identify if you should stay or go.

Ultimately, as Erin shares, there is a trade-off of comfort now for something more compelling in the future—but how do you manage that process? Listen in to learn actionable strategies and techniques that she employs with her coaching clients to help them get “unstuck”—and change “what if” to “what could be.”

Products: www.ourwholenessatwork.comCoaching Services: www.Evolution.teamLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/evolution-service-corporation/

Enneagram X Burnout Card Deck*108 Mindful Practices for Sustained Wellbeing*https://ourwholenessatwork.com/pages/enneagram-burnout-card-deck

Burnout Recovery Circleshttps://evolution.team/wholeness-at-work-burnout-recovery-circles

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe Strategic Due Diligence Roadmap for Financial AdvisorsA visual guide to help financial advisors embark upon an efficient process—one that is more likely to result in discovering Your Best Business Life™.

Should I Stay or Should I Go? An Advisor’s Guide to Thinking Through Their Biggest DecisionJason Diamond turns the tables on Mindy who offers a first-hand glimpse into her book, Should I Stay or Should I Go?, created specifically for financial advisors who are looking to optimize their businesses or thinking through the biggest decision of their lives.

Erin Rocchio, MPODPrincipal, Executive, and Team Coach

EXPERIENCE

For over fifteen years, Erin has worked with executives across industries to find the sweet spot between business results and personal meaning. She designs and delivers transformational leader, team, and organization development in line with business strategy. Released in 2020, Erin’s inaugural publication, Wholeness at Work: Free Yourself from Burnout for Good, addresses the science behind workplace burnout. She explores the symptoms, sources, and solutions across three levels: individual, relational, and systemic. Her Roadmap to Wholeness supports leaders in finding a lifelong path to sustainable well-being in their work.

Erin’s clients are curious, values-driven, emotionally intelligent leaders up to big things. She works with C-level executives at billion-dollar companies and founders of proven start-ups, helping them cultivate sustainable, high-performing leadership

teams based on metrics that drive engagement and results. Erin brings a philosophical orientation to her work rooted in Appreciative Inquiry (strengths-based change), the Enneagram personality system, Integral theory, and neuroscience-based organizational and leadership wellbeing.

PARTNERSHIP

Erin is a Managing Partner at Evolution, a coaching, consulting, and investment firm that partners with start-up and high-growth companies to drive long-term, holistic success through developing leadership, alignment and culture. Evolution works exclusively with companies that strive to be iconic, world-enriching, evolutionary businesses.

Erin’s clients include Snap, Glassdoor, Medtronic, City of Hope, Uber, Seattle Children’s Hospital, Cornerstone On Demand, Amazon Games, Retool, Companion Pet Partners, Slack, Abercrombie, Girl Scouts San Diego, Altana AI, Open AI, Research Affiliates, and Udemy.

EDUCATION

Erin earned a Bachelor of Science in Education and Social Policy from Northwestern University, and a Master of Science in Positive Organization Development and Change (MPOD) from Case Western Reserve University’s Weatherhead School of Management. While at Northwestern, Erin was an elite student-athlete, helping to build its Women’s Softball program to national distinction.

Erin is a certified Integral Coach with Integral Coaching Canada and a Senior Member of the Enneagram in Business Network. She holds additional certifications in Advanced Coaching with the Enneagram, a robust personality typing system (via Enneagram in Business) and Developing Leadership with Emotional Intelligence (via CWRU). Erin is also a member of the Organizational Development Network and International Positive Psychology Association. Erin is a graduate of Landmark Education’s Team, Management and Leadership Program, and is an avid fan of mindfulness and self-compassion meditation.

PERSONAL

Erin enjoys her free time watching her two young daughters discover the wonders of life around them. Erin also has a soft spot for talking global politics and poetry. More than ever, she is an advocate for the development of young women as leaders in their communities.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Jason Diamond and Mindy DiamondOverviewMany advisors are drawn to independence for the control and equity-building potential it offers, yet find themselves wondering if monetization in the short term might be the better way to go. Jason Diamond and Mindy Diamond provide insights and guidelines to help advisors navigate these choices with strategies to assess factors like growth, profitability, succession planning, and short- vs. long-term goals.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…The prospect of becoming an independent business owner is attractive to many advisors. The freedom and control that come with ownership, along with the potential of building equity, would seem like a compelling choice over transitioning to another employee model.

Yet, when it comes to deciding between monetizing through a recruiting deal now or making the leap to independence, many advisors find themselves caught in the middle—that is, between the proverbial bird in hand now and the potential down the road via increased growth, profitability, and even a sale of some or all the business.

Especially if you’ve never monetized, would it make sense to do so first before breaking away? Or should you just jump into independence headfirst with your sights set on the long term?

There are no simple, one-size-fits-all answers—but there are some strategies to help you through the decision-making process.

Jason Diamond does a deep dive into the topic with Mindy Diamond and shares some guidance to follow when faced with this important decision, including:

• The growth and legitimacy of the independent space—and the impact on an advisor’s decision-making process.
• Monetization options—and how each is dependent on an advisor’s goals.
• Firms with multi-channel affiliations—and why they have become a “go-to” option for many advisors.
• “Move once, monetize twice”—and what types of advisors this option may appeal to.
• Succession planning—and what advisors need to know when weighing a retire-in-place program over other options.
• The short-term vs. the long-term—and why having clarity on goals is one of the most critical aspects of the decision-making process.
• And the questions advisors can ask themselves to determine the right next step.

This is a full-on education of the choices that advisors have, as well as the determining factors for each. So, whether you’re a wirehouse advisor considering the best path forward or just looking to get acquainted with the ever-changing industry landscape, this episode is for you.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesMove Once, Monetize TwiceWeighing all of your options may result in doubling the returns; in essence, moving once yet monetizing twice.

Wealth Management Landscape at A Glance: Focus on IndependenceIn a greatly evolved industry landscape, the independent space has expanded to offer a variety of models with varying levels of freedom and flexibility. Which one might be right for you? Our newly updated “Landscape at a Glance” focuses on independence, providing the key features of each model.

What Advisors Should Focus on to Maximize the Value of Their Practice: An Investment Banker’s GuidanceDan Seivert of ECHELON Partners offers perspective to help advisors better understand their business’s value drivers and how to maximize each, even if you aren’t interested in going independent or selling your business.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Carl Richards—CFP™, Content Creator, Thought LeaderOverviewRealizing common behavior gaps led Carl Richards to explore ways to simplify financial concepts and processes for clients. As a result, he’s become an industry thought leader who offers a unique perspective on the true value of an advisor and how to access that to better serve clients and foster growth.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…There’s a chasm that exists in everyone’s life between what we know we should do, how we do it, and what we actually do.

The good news is that there are those among us who see these self-limiting behaviors for what they are—and have developed ways to simplify the routines that leave us feeling stuck and repeating what can be less efficient actions.

Carl Richards is one such person with that unique vision. He, too, often felt mired in excess detail and complex processes and data, and found a way to simplify it all.

As someone who started in the big brokerage world and later made the leap to independence, Carl recognized there had to be a better way to communicate with clients—to drill down on long reports and share what was most meaningful to them.

Today, in addition to being a Certified Financial Planner, Carl shares his techniques with those in the wealth management world and beyond, as an author, podcaster, and thought leader. So we’re excited he’s joining Jason Diamond to offer meaningful advice, including:

• Identifying your own behavior gaps—and how to address them.
• The impact of client behaviors—and how advisors can limit some of the tension that often exists when talking about money and the future.
• The significance of simplifying the complex—and how his podcast with Michael Kitces, Kitces and Carl, demonstrates that concept in action.
• Robos, AI, and other prospective “replacements” for advisors—and why he sees advisors’ real value to their clients as far stronger.
• Being the signal among the noise—and why empathy needs to be a more significant part of the industry as a whole.

It’s advice around simplification and filling what he calls behavior gaps that are truly relevant to all advisors—in how they think about their own business lives and their processes with clients.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesMichael Kitces on Advisor Wellbeing: How Autonomy is Trumping Income When it Comes to Advisor Listen in for an insightful and revealing look into advisors’ minds and what really makes them happy, based on data from the latest Kitces survey. Learn the motivations and drivers that lead not only to success but to a better quality of life.

Top Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a Move: An Industry Update
A breakdown of the steps advisors can take to prepare for change and enhance business processes, equally effective for those at the curiosity stage or even deep into due diligence, and whether you ultimately make a move or not.

Top Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a MoveWe have compiled the most salient tips collected from over two decades of helping our advisor-clients through successful transitions.

Carl RichardsCFP™, Content Creator, Thought Leader

Carl Richards is a Certified Financial Planner™ and creator of the Sketch Guy column, which appeared weekly for a decade in The New York Times.

Carl has also been featured on Marketplace Money, Oprah.com, and Forbes.com. In addition, Carl has become a frequent keynote speaker at financial planning conferences and visual learning events around the world.

Through his simple sketches, Carl makes complex financial concepts easy to understand. His sketches also serve as the foundation for his two books, The One-Page Financial Plan: A Simple Way to Be Smart About Your Money and The Behavior Gap: Simple Ways to Stop Doing Dumb Things with Money (Portfolio/Penguin).

His sketches have appeared in a solo show at the Kimball Art Center in Park City, Utah, as well as other showings at Parsons School of Design in New York City, The Schulz Museum in Santa Rosa, California, and an exhibit at the Mansion House in London.

His commissioned work is on display in businesses and educational institutions across the globe.

Carl also founded The Society of Advice. Every month, Members of The Society of Advice join Carl in a 90-minute private conversation with a knock-your-socks-off guest.

If you like Carl’s work, you may love 50 Fires: A Podcast About Money and Meaning, featuring frank, funny, and often difficult conversations about money that actually matter with guests from all walks of life.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Nate Harris, Founder, Covenant CapitalOverviewNate Harris recognized that the firm he first built his business at no longer aligned with what he deemed as his North Star. After extensive soul-searching and due diligence, he decided to leave his team at Merrill and opted for the independent broker dealer model, which he felt would allow him to achieve all he desired and then some.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…For many advisors, finding their “North Star” is a journey to identify what’s most important to their businesses and their lives.

That realization often serves as the foundation for a renewed commitment to their firm or as a motivation for change.

Nathan Harris started his career at Merrill in 2006 and joined a team of 8. His experience at the firm was not unlike many other advisors we speak with: He worked with a great team and built a stellar business, yet he started to recognize the firm’s “trend of changes.”

So Nate dove headfirst into due diligence to explore the options available to him. He spoke to “at least a hundred individuals,” as he put it, and filled an entire notebook with information that he and his now partner Jeff reviewed throughout the exercise.

They decided that their North Star was founded on the ethos that a change had to be better not only for their clients but also for their team and themselves.

And one thing came to light early in the process: Each actually could be better.

After exploring a variety of firms and models, they made the leap to independence and launched Covenant Capital with Raymond James independent broker dealer model in 2021.

In this episode, Nate shares a compelling narrative with Jason Diamond, including:

• The trend line of evolution at Merrill—and how that impacted the decision to make the leap.
• RIA vs. IBD—and what drove the decision to choose the independent broker dealer model.
• Breaking up a team—and why some chose to stay at Merrill instead of transitioning to Raymond James.
• The process of due diligence—and why he sees it as a valuable exercise any advisor should embark on periodically.
• The logic and emotion of decision-making—and how to account for both.
• Plus, Nate offers really valuable advice on how to assess your business life—and keep your north star at the helm.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesWhy you need to define your “True North”
Developing your own guiding principle will ensure you stay focused on the big picture, not individual items in a vacuum.

Should I Stay or Should I Go? An Advisor’s Guide to Thinking Through Their Biggest Decision
Jason Diamond turns the tables on Mindy who offers a first-hand glimpse into her book, Should I Stay or Should I Go?, created specifically for financial advisors who are looking to optimize their businesses or thinking through the biggest decision of their lives.

Going Independent with an RIA vs. IBD: A Comparison Fact Sheet
When it comes to freedom and control, there are key differences amongst the independent broker dealer (IBD) and registered investment advisor (RIA) spaces that every advisor should be aware of.

Nathan S Harris, CFP®, CPWA®, CRPC®, C(k)P®,CPFA®, CPWA®, CRPCTMFounding Partner

Nathan started his career at Merrill Lynch in 2006 prior to founding Covenant Capital in 2021. He was named to the Forbes Best-In-State Wealth Advisors list in 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021. Nathan holds multiple designations, including the Chartered Retirement Planning Counselor℠ designation and the Certified Financial Planner™ certification awarded by the Certified Financial Planner Board of Standards, Inc.

Nathan is a member of the Tivoli Society for the Weinberg Center of the Arts and is a past president of the Southern Frederick County Rotary Club. He graduated magna cum laude from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania and is a former Navy lieutenant on board the USS Ronald Reagan, where he worked on nuclear reactors.

Nathan and his wife, Kate, pursue charitable causes that are important to their family and to our client families through a donor advised fund, The Nate & Kate Harris Foundation. They live with their two children, Max and Ella Jane, and their miniature Schnauzer, Harry Potter.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Justin Berman—Co-Chairman at Cresset and Founder of Berman Capital AdvisorsOverviewJustin Berman demonstrates an important concept: Change is constant. After a novel leap from Goldman Sachs to independence in 2010 and building the business from $1B to $5B in 10 years, he decided he needed to make a change to provide an even greater impact on his clients and business in the future. So he merged with Cresset Asset Management and in just 3 years, increased revenue from $17mm to $27mm.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…It was May of 2020 when Justin Berman first shared his breakaway story on this series.

In “Life After Goldman Sachs,” Justin shared his perspective on leaving the prestigious brand to launch an independent firm. He discusses why, after 7 years at Goldman, he felt limited by changes at the firm in his ability to serve his high-net-worth clients’ needs and continue to grow the business into the future.

So, Justin launched Atlanta-based RIA Berman Capital Advisors, a firm that grew from managing a billion in client assets to $5B over the course of 10 years.

Then in September of 2021, it was announced that Justin’s firm would merge with Cresset Asset Management.

The big question is why would a successful independent firm decide to align with a multi-family office and investment firm like Cresset?

As Justin put it, he once again considered the future, his clients’ needs, and his firm’s ability to serve those needs and grow the business going forward.

And it’s proving to be a good decision: In just 3 years, his revenue increased from $17mm to $27mm.

He revisits his journey with Mindy Diamond, filling in the gaps since his last visit, and offering a unique perspective on the evolution of an advisory business, including:

• The choice to give up control of the business he built—and how that decision has proven to be the right one.
• The options he considered—and why Cresset was the partner he chose to align with.
• The impact of change on a business’s future—and what Justin specifically saw that inspired his decision.
• His incredible growth—and what key steps he finds most effective.
• What it means to be a “family’s first call”—and how a partner or business model can help facilitate that.
• The power of attracting top talent—and why it’s imperative to have a team and services that demonstrate growth and profitability.

Justin’s story is important because it shares how, instead of being feared, change should be embraced as a pathway to growth. Listen in to learn valuable insights that can help inspire your own evolution.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesFinding the Shortest Path to Excellence Can Be a Game Changer for AdvisorsDoing everything you can to deliver better service, drive growth, and achieve your goals faster can result in extraordinary benefits.

Life After Goldman Sachs: A Story of Extraordinary SuccessEx-Goldman Sachs advisor Justin Berman shares how he found the courage to leave the Goldman imprimatur, brave Garden Leave, and build the $3B Berman Capital Advisors.

Private Bankers Find Greater Independence: Former $2B J.P. Morgan Team on Their New Chapter with CressetPrivate bankers are far less likely to leave the banks they built their businesses at given the challenges they face in a move—most notably portability concerns and garden leave provisions. Yet Kevin McGuire, Sarah Burney and their team started to feel a conflict between what they wanted to do for their clients and what they could do under the auspices of J.P. Morgan Private Bank. So they explored their options, including the thought of launching their own RIA, but instead opted for Cresset. They share their story one year after making the transition.

Justin Berman
Co-Founder and Co-Chairman

Justin Berman is Co-Chairman at Cresset, and Founder of Berman Capital Advisors. In his role, Justin works with multi-generational entrepreneurial families while setting the strategic vision for the firm.

Justin founded Berman Capital Advisors in 2010 as part of his commitment to provide truly objective family office services, wealth management, and investment consulting services to a select group of high-net-worth families. Prior to this, Justin worked in the Private Wealth Management division of Goldman Sachs & Co., where he was a member of the firm’s Leadership Council. He has also served in the Investment Advisory Group at myCFO, Inc., and in the Private Client Group at Arthur Andersen & Co.

Justin graduated summa cum laude from Georgetown University, where he served as Varsity Tennis Captain and was a Rhodes Scholar finalist. He also earned an MBA from The Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania, where he was named a Palmer Scholar.

Justin is active in the community and is on the board of trustees of The McDonough School of Business at Georgetown University, Leadership Atlanta, and Grady Health Foundation. He also chairs the board of My Journey Matters, a program designed to help reduce recidivism in young offenders in Atlanta. Justin is also involved in the Young Presidents’ Organization. Justin and his wife, Mara, reside in Atlanta and have three children.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Michael Henley, Founder & CEO of Brandywine Oak Private Wealth; Matt Liebman, CEO of Amplius Wealth Advisors, Jerry Davidse, CEO of Presilium Private WealthOverviewThree Merrill breakaways offer unique perspectives on the process of considering change, life outside the wirehouse, and filling the gaps that one might experience when leaving a big brand name behind to become an independent business owner.

Watch…Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Advisors who are considering the leap to independence often share their concerns about leaving behind the culture, community, and support they’ve grown accustomed to in the wirehouse world.

And that’s perfectly valid.

While many advisors are vocal about the lack of freedom and control at the big firms, there are still a lot of positives—like having a well-known brand with a seemingly endless budget behind you and the ability to create a strong foundation for success.

On the other side, there are those who’ve made the break to independence and share that life outside the walls of the wirehouses is pretty amazing.

For this special episode, we invited three such breakaway advisors who developed extraordinary independent businesses to discuss how they did it. That is, to offer their trade secrets to creating businesses that merged the best of the wirehouse they grew up in with the freedom and control they were searching for.

Former Merrill Advisors Michael Henley, the Founder and CEO of the $1.6B Brandywine Oak Private Wealth, Matt Liebman, CEO of $1.5B Amplius Wealth Advisors, and Jerry Davidse, CEO of $500mm Presilium Private Wealth join Louis Diamond to share their journey, including:

• The changes they witnessed at Merrill—and how each impacted their decisions to launch their own firms.
• Leaving Merrill—and the roadblocks they hit along their journey.
• Their home-grown community—and how this group of like-minded business owners fills the gap of what they might miss from the wirehouse, including camaraderie and collegial support.
• The single most impactful process or tactic they’ve employed—and how it influenced growth.
• Plus much more—including a Founder’s Blueprint segment.

It’s an episode that shares different points of view with a common goal: To do what’s best for their clients and business lives. Available on audio and video—so be sure to listen in or watch.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesA Diehard Merrill Advisor’s Journey to Independence
Michael Henley, a 34-yr old “diehard Merrill Lynch advisor” and team, with a partner less than 10 years from retirement, came to a point at the wirehouse when it was more about “jumping through hoops” for the bank than doing best for their clients.

$1B+ Multi-Generational Merrill Breakaway Team Leaves Behind the Big Brand to Gain “More” for Clients
Matt Liebman, Founding Partner and CEO of RIA firm Amplius Wealth Advisors discusses the complexity of considering change with a multi-generational team, the difficulty of walking away from a big brand name, the concept of clients being the real “boss” and how that influenced his choice to build an independent firm—and much more.

Outgrowing the Employee Model: How an ex-Merrill Advisor Found Autonomy & Abundance in Independence
Jerry Davidse discusses his transition from Merrill to building RIA firm Presilium Private Wealth with partner Brook Hart. He shares how they gained the freedom to communicate and create an exceptional experience for their clients, their outstanding portability ratio, uptick in referrals, and more.

Michael Henley CFP® | CPWA® | CRPC® | RMA®
Founder and CEO

Michael Henley is the Founder and CEO of Brandywine Oak Private Wealth, a private wealth management and registered independent advisory firm headquartered in Kennett Square, PA. Over the course of his 20-year career, Michael has been dedicated to helping wealthy individuals and families plan and manage all aspects of their finances and investments. With a passion for helping others look behind the curtain and understand the complex world of finance, he develops close relationships with clients as he helps them progress toward their financial goals. Michael loves to provide clarity and alleviate financial anxiety, help prevent families from overpaying in taxes, and give wealthy families permission to enjoy their life savings. He says, “No work is more gratifying than giving families outcomes to what matters most to them.”

Michael holds the CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™, Certified Private Wealth Advisor®, Chartered Retirement Planning Counselor℠, and Retirement Management Advisor® designations. Residing in Chadds Ford, PA, with his two children, he enjoys outdoor activities, particularly maintaining trails on his property, hiking with his dogs, and being an actively engaged dad, always taking his kids everywhere. Michael’s latest hobby is tennis, he is obsessed with hot yoga, and he recently started ice skating to join his daughter Savannah. He can also be found moving logs to the firepit with his son Maverick on the tractor. Michael serves on the board of United Way of Southern Chester County and loves mentoring younger advisors. Great mentors helped him succeed, and he’s convinced that every leader needs to both have mentors and be a mentor.

Matthew D. Liebman, CFA®, CRPC®, CAIA®Founding Partner & Chief Executive Officer | Wealth Advisor

As Founding Partner and CEO, Matt drives the principal mission and core promise of Amplius Wealth Advisors: to put clients at the center of everything Amplius Wealth Advisors does.

Prior to founding Amplius Wealth Advisors, Matt returned home to the Philadelphia area in 2008, where he co-led The Liebman Marks Group at Merrill Lynch for 13 years, consistently receiving firm recognition as a top advisor. Before Merrill Lynch, Matt worked in the investment management industry in New York City in a variety of roles – as a research analyst, portfolio manager, and hedge fund manager. Combined with his education and background in asset allocation theory and behavioral finance, Matt has considerable experience with high-net-worth families and provides a unique approach to guiding clients towards their financial goals.

Matt is a CFA® Charterholder, Chartered Retirement Planning Counselor (CRPC®), and Chartered Alternative Investment Analyst (CAIA®). He was recognized as one of the Top Advisors in Pennsylvania by Forbes as a “Best-in-State Wealth Advisors” ranking in 2020, 2021, and 2023.

Matt earned a BBA from Emory University’s Goizueta School of Business as a dual major in business and political science with concentrations in finance and new venture consulting.

Matt is a Member of the New York Society of Security Analysts, Philadelphia Society of Security Analysts, CFA Institute, and the CAIA Institute. He serves on the boards of the Anti-Defamation League and KleinLife and is an active volunteer in the Philadelphia community.

Matt lives in Haverford, PA, with his wife Allison and two children, Noah & Lucy. He is an avid NBA fan, tennis player, and volunteer basketball coach for his children’s youth teams. Matt is an avid follower of domestic and global politics and enjoys reading business, sports, and political non-fiction books.

Jerry Davidse, CFP®
CEO

Jerry Davidse, CFP® has worked closely with leading families across the U.S. as a wealth manager since 2001, advising them on wealth planning, custom investment portfolios and risk management strategies. He believes in clear communication with clients and provides simple recommendations for complex financial decisions. Jerry earned two degrees from the business school at Villanova University in 2001.

Jerry was awarded the CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ certification in 2005 by the Certified Financial Planner Board of Standards, Inc. He was previously a Vice President at Morgan Stanley and Senior Vice President at Merrill Lynch before founding Presilium Private Wealth in 2022. He was recognized by Forbes in 2023 as one of the top wealth advisors in Pennsylvania.

Jerry enjoys traveling, golf, coaching youth sports, and has run four marathons. He and his wife live in Radnor, Pennsylvania, with their son, Jake, and daughter, Emma.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Mindy Diamond and Jason DiamondOverviewJason Diamond turns the tables on Mindy who offers a first-hand glimpse into her book, Should I Stay or Should I Go?, created specifically for financial advisors who are looking to optimize their businesses or thinking through the biggest decision of their lives.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…This multi-faceted episode offers perspective on what advisors can glean from this invaluable resource, why Mindy wrote the book, and what she learned along the way.

In seeing a significant gap in information available for financial advisors looking to optimize their businesses, Mindy took on the task of developing a one-of-a-kind book entitled Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Mindy’s journey started 30 years ago and culminated in this expansive project: A roadmap designed to help top advisors think critically and objectively about their firms.

Drawn from three decades of counseling financial advisors on the choices that impact their business lives, the book offers a self-guided process based on what Diamond Consultants practices with our own advisor-clients.

Along with Jason Diamond, Mindy answers questions like:

• What’s the real value of this book?
• Why this book and why now?
• Who is the target audience?
• Do you need to be considering change to find value in the content?
• Why would a recruiter share her trade secrets?
• And much more!

Mindy also shares examples and excerpts from the book, along with the type of guidance one could expect to find in it. So be sure to listen in for the inside story.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesShould I Stay or Should I Go?The Book for Financial Advisors by Mindy Diamond. Available now!

Why Settle for “Good Enough” When Great is Possible?In a vastly expanded industry landscape with more high-quality options than ever before, some advisors settle for “good enough” when the potential for “great” is often within reach. What’s holding them back?

Financial Advisors: What’s The Risk Of Staying Put?Many advisors feel that changing firms or models is just too risky. But what they may not realize is that there’s also a risk to staying put.

The 7 Unintended Consequences of Staying the CourseWhile it may seem “safer” to stay put, there are risks in doing so that many advisors are unaware of.

Top Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a MoveA breakdown of the steps advisors can take to prepare for change and enhance business processes, equally effective for those at the curiosity stage or even deep into due diligence, and whether you ultimately make a move or not.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Gordon “Gordy” Abel, CMO, Dynasty Financial PartnersOverviewGordon “Gordy” Abel from Dynasty Financial Partners offers perspectives on why marketing matters, how to create and leverage a brand, the key aspects of an effective value proposition, and more for employees of an established firm or someone just launching a new independent entity.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Marketing is the secret sauce behind many successful wealth management firms.

It starts with developing a unique brand—from creating the firm’s name and distinct design to leveraging that brand through various mediums.

Then there’s messaging – a relatable value proposition and supporting content – broadcasted into the marketplace. It’s how one wealth management firm stands out from a crowded sea of others—and the advent of social media has made it a ubiquitous and essential part of a business’s growth.

But how does it work? If you’re launching a new firm, where do you start? And if you work within an existing brand, how do you enhance the marketing efforts?

To answer these questions and more, we called on Gordon “Gordy” Abel, the seasoned marketing pro who serves as the Chief Marketing Officer for Dynasty Financial Partners, one of the wealth management industry’s top independent platforms for advisors and teams who are looking to build the independent business of their dreams.

Gordy joins Jason Diamond to share his unique vantage point as both Dynasty’s CMO and the “outsourced” CMO for the independent RIAs on their network.

He and Jason discuss all things marketing specifically as it relates to wealth management businesses, including:

• Why marketing matters—and what you need to do to enhance your presence and exposure.
• How to leverage a brand—whether you’re an employee of a well-known firm or just launching a new independent entity.
• What’s in a name—and how some of the most memorable brands came to be.
• The key ingredients of a successful value proposition—and what might be considered effective differentiators.
• The biggest obstacles facing advisors when launching a new independent brand—and how to avoid them.
• The role of marketing in M&A—and how a strategic marketing program can make the process of recruiting and acquisitions more efficient.

Plus, Gordy and Jason discuss the future of marketing, the impact of AI, and much more! It’s an episode that demonstrates why marketing, when done right, is an investment that can pay off in droves.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesInnovative Ways the Best Independent Firms Fuel Growth: A Special Industry Update
Independence allows advisors to create an unlimited menu of innovative value-add services for their clients. And as the industry landscape expands, employee advisors are finding ways to get in on the action. Learn specific examples of the various services offered by some of the industry’s leading independent firms.

Driving Organic Growth: Practical Marketing Tips for Advisors from FiComm’s Megan Carpenter
Growing a sustainable wealth management business relies on attracting new clients while engaging current ones. The leader of the award-winning integrated marketing firm shares advice on what it takes to impact organic growth via marketing.

Top Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a MoveIn this document, we have compiled the most salient tips collected from over two decades of helping our advisor-clients through successful transitions.

Gordy Abel
Managing Director and CMO

Mr. Abel joined Dynasty Financial Partners in May 2016 and serves as Managing Director, Chief Marketing Officer. He is responsible for helping grow the business through raising the firm’s brand profile as he leads the marketing efforts for Corporate Marketing, Network Advisor Marketing and Dynasty Community educational events and experiences. In his role not only as CMO but also as a member of Dynasty’s leadership team, Abel plays a critical role in partnering throughout the organization to drive growth across the core business, investments platform, the Dynasty Investment Bank and Dynasty Connect all while helping Dynasty Network advisory firms build their businesses through an innovative, technology-driven marketing approach to organic and inorganic growth.

Mr. Abel has driven the creation and launch of over 40 new brands for the independent wealth advisory firms in the Dynasty Network. He takes immense pride in guiding these firms to create their new brand identity, mission, vision, positioning, and values in order to successfully launch their independent firm, better build their businesses over time and ultimately better serve their clients through their partnership with Dynasty.

Prior to joining Dynasty, Abel has held executive and marketing roles at Google, JPMorgan Chase and BlackRock/iShares.

In 2020, Abel was named an honoree for the Tampa Bay Business Journal Pride award for his inclusion, support, and advocacy of the LGBTQIA+ community. Over his career he has served two board terms for the Financial Communications Society and has been active with the ANA, Ad Council and IAB.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With CEO Jason Andrews, & COO Ross Bauer, Founders of Merritt Point Wealth AdvisorsOverviewThe “affiliation channel slide” has become a common path for many employee advisors seeking independence. Jason Andrews and Ross Bauer of Merritt Point Wealth Advisors share a story demonstrating how their transition from Wells Fargo PCG to FiNet resulted in tremendous growth opportunities.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Almost every advisor we host on this series shares the desire for greater independence.

The good news is that there are plenty of options available in the ever-evolving industry landscape for advisors to find just what they’re looking for—including firms with multi-channel affiliations.

These give employee advisors an opportunity to slide to an independent model and become true business owners with far less hassle than they might have dealt with had they gone to another platform provider or built an independent business themselves.

Wells Fargo Advisors Financial Network or FiNet as it’s commonly known, the independent broker dealer arm of Wells Fargo Advisors, is a popular home for advisors looking to go independent without the heavy lift of setting up their own firm from scratch.

And that’s especially true for Wells advisors, particularly this episode’s guests, Jason Andrews and Ross Bauer.

As employee advisors at Wells Fargo’s Private Client Group or PCG, they built the business to $280mm in assets under management and decided that it was time to build their own firm based on their vision.

After conducting due diligence, the notion of a transition to independence without actually “leaving” Wells was of tremendous appeal to them. So in 2019 they made the leap and launched Merritt Point Wealth Advisors with FiNet.

And today, just five years later, they are managing nearly $1.7B in assets.

Jason and Ross share their story with Louis Diamond, including:

• What actually drove such incredible growth in such a short time.
• What specifically made changing channels within Wells more attractive than other options.
• How their business lives differ from their time as employees of Wells to C-level leaders of their own firm.
• And key learnings other advisors can glean from their extraordinary growth story.

It’s an incredible story that shows how vision, planning, and determination can create extraordinary results, so be sure to listen in.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesTop Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a MoveWe have compiled the most salient tips collected from over two decades of helping our advisor-clients through successful transitions.

Wells Fargo’s Barry Sommers on Transforming the Wealth Management ExperienceRare access to one of the top-of-the-food-chain leaders who discusses the direction of Wells, how it compares to its peers, the value to HNW and UHNW clients, a perspective on recruiting and the ideal advisor type, the future of the industry, and much more.

Sustainable and Scalable Growth: A Leading Coach’s Advice on How to Achieve itDuncan MacPherson from Pareto Systems offers actionable advice for financial advisors looking to unlock greater value in all that they do to build their business. It’s like having a free session on growth with one of the best coaches in the business.

Ross Bauer
Founder, COO

In his role as COO, Ross is responsible for overseeing client, advisor and employee success. Ross’s focus is on initiatives that are advisor-led and client centric, offering a high level of flexibility, service, and technology.

Passionate about business, economics and educating others, Ross began his career at Merrill Lynch in the Global Wealth Management Division. Ross then moved on to work at a tax firm in London that serviced multinational individuals. In 2014, Ross joined Wells Fargo Advisors where he focused on developing and implementing custom-tailored investment strategies for the firm’s wealth management clients. In 2019 Ross co-founded Merritt Point Wealth Advisors where he served as Managing Partner before taking on his current role of COO. Ross has been a guest lecturer at NYU Stern School of Business, where he educated MBA students on investment strategies and risk management.

Jason Andrews, CRPC®
Founder, CEO

Jason is Founder and CEO of Merritt Point Wealth Advisors. He is a Chartered Retirement Planning Counselor and a Senior Fundamental Choice Portfolio Manager.

Today, Jason also focuses on empowering other advisors to help them build, grow, and own their own practices by achieving independence through Merritt Point Wealth Advisors.

Prior to founding Merritt Point Wealth Advisors, Jason co-founded Cutler and Andrews Financial Group, which began at UBS in 2003 and moved to Wells Fargo Advisors in 2008. Jason was Senior Vice President – Investments at Wells Fargo Advisors, where he spent ten years and Vice President – Investment at UBS Financial Services, where he developed a proprietary Self-employed 401(k) platform to service Local Real Estate firms.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With John Bowen, CEO and Founder, CEG Worldwide, LLCOverviewIndustry coach John Bowen demonstrates how building and fostering the development of your “Dream Team” can be the game-changer your business is waiting for. It’s an episode that serves as a free coaching session with actionable advice for employee advisors and business owners alike.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Many wealth management firms have left a level of potential untapped: mastering the power of teamwork.

It’s the accomplishments of that team, running on all cylinders and driving toward a unified vision, that propels phenomenal success. But getting to that level isn’t always easy.

It takes building, supporting, and nurturing extraordinary talent. And developing a structure where teamwork and collaboration become a natural part of the work environment.

That’s why we invited one of the top coaches in the industry, John Bowen, to join us on the show.

His firm, CEG Worldwide, just completed a study of what it takes to build your “Dream Team.”

“The Dream Team Effect,” as John calls it, is one of the major factors that drives success in everything from growth to client retention to long-term success.

And the impact is tangible when you look closely at the foundation of team dynamics and tap into the power therein.

In this episode with Louis Diamond, John offers actionable advice on mastering the art of team dynamics, including:

• Why the right team has such an incredible impact on the bottom line.
• How the different stages of team development need to be part of your strategy.
• What key traits to look for in team members.
• Why relying on the “high performers” isn’t always the right tactic.
• What those who like operating as a lone wolf need to know.
• And, ultimately, the key things you need to know—whether you’re an advisor who is building or managing a team or a business owner looking to take your firm to the next level.

Plus, John shares his proprietary Dream Team framework to get you started on your way—with key graphics, so be sure to check out the video, too. Consider it your free coaching session with one of the industry’s finest!

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesFinding the Shortest Path to Excellence Can Be a Game Changer for Advisors
Doing everything you can to deliver better service, drive growth, and achieve your goals faster can result in extraordinary benefits.

The Dream Team Effect; Mastering Team Dynamics to Achieve Wealth Management Excellence
Invaluable insights and actionable strategies to build and lead your dream team.

Advisor Success Formula: Closing the Gap Between HNW Client Expectations and Advisor Services
In a more competitive and commoditized world, it’s critical to leverage any advantage available to be more intentional and thoughtful in managing and growing your business. This episode takes a deep dive into John Bowen’s latest report to identify action items that can help advisors get started on a new path to thinking about delivering exactly what clients want.

John Bowen
Founder and CEO

John Bowen is the founder and CEO of CEG Worldwide, the world’s leading coaching firm for financial advisors. Since 2000, Bowen and his team have had the privilege of coaching elite financial advisors to build simple, elegant wealth management businesses that serve their affluent clients extremely well while building lives of significance for themselves, their teams and their loved ones.

Before founding CEG Worldwide, Bowen worked directly with affluent clients as a financial advisor for 26 years, managing up to $2 billion in assets before selling his firm. Following the sale of his firm, he became CEO of Assante Capital Management. Under his leadership, Assante more than tripled assets under management to more than $25 billion.

Bowen is widely recognized as a leader in the financial services industry. Over three decades, he has delivered hundreds of keynote presentations and workshops to thousands of top advisors around the world. For more than 20 years, he wrote a highly acclaimed monthly column for the leading U.S. financial services trade journal, Financial Planning. And he is the author or co-author of more than a dozen books, including Elite Wealth Planning: Lessons from the Super Rich, The Wealthy Client Pipeline: Leveraging Thought Leadership to Build Profitable Partnerships with Attorneys and Accountants and Breaking Through: Building a World-Class Wealth Management Business.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Louis Diamond and Jason DiamondOverviewUsing the Diamond Consultants trademark data-driven analysis and insights on recruiting and deals, Louis and Jason Diamond share a “state of the recruiting industry” report for the first half of 2024, with perspectives on what to expect for the rest of the year.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…It’s hard to believe that we’re past the mid-point of 2024 and are already gathering data for our next transition report.

It’s going to be another massive effort because this year is already proving to be incredibly active: Based on what we’re seeing, the pace of transitions is currently surpassing 2023.

Which is why we felt it was important to share a mid-year Industry Update on what we’re seeing in the way of deals and dive into some of the most noteworthy transitions to date.

Using our trademark data-driven analysis and insights on the state of recruiting and deals, Louis Diamond and Jason Diamond share:

• An overview of recruiting—including trends and success stories from the first half of 2024.
• A review of 2023 predictions—and which were on the mark, and which were off.
• A “look ahead”—with predictions for the rest of 2024 and 2025.
• An update on deals—and which firms are winning and losing the battle for top talent.
• Plus, a review of notable transitions from the first half of 2024.

Consider it a mid-year companion to our trademark Transition Reports, with a sneak peek into the data and insights contained in the forthcoming firm-focused reports for Merrill, UBS, and Edward Jones. So listen in to get the latest scoop.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesDiamond Consultants 2023 Advisor Transition Report
An Update on Advisor Movement in the Wealth Management Industry

Diamond Consultants Merrill Advisor Transition Report 2024
A “firm-focused report” seeks to look under the hood at movement to and from Merrill from January to June of 2024

Diamond Consultants UBS Advisor Transition Report 2024
A “firm-focused report” seeks to look under the hood at movement to and from UBS from January to June of 2024

Diamond Consultants Edward Jones Advisor Transition Report 2024
A “firm-focused report” seeks to look under the hood at movement to and from Edward Jones from January to June of 2024

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Matt Brown – Founder, Chairman, & CEO, CAISOverviewMatt Brown discusses the founding of CAIS and his vision to democratize alternatives (alts) investing and open up access to firms of all sizes. He shares how technology helped transform the independent space and provides an extraordinary growth engine for firms. Plus, he offers his thoughts in the inaugural Founder’s Blueprint segment.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Many of the best and brightest ideas in wealth management over the last decade have stemmed from someone in the industry who saw a gap and filled it.

Such is the case with Matt Brown, who envisioned using technology to make alternative investments more accessible to the masses.

Once limited to institutional and ultra-sophisticated investors, these “unconventional” alternative investments, or alts, have become popular vehicles for many advisors looking to serve clients and expand their portfolios.

Matt first recognized the white space when it came to advisors’ access to alts while he was a financial advisor at Shearson Lehman Brothers and Smith Barney.

So he founded CAIS in 2009 with a vision of democratizing alts investing and opening up access to firms of all sizes. And that it did: Platforms like CAIS have leveled the playing field for independent firms by giving these advisors everything they need to compete with the biggest names in the business.

CAIS has realized extraordinary success, doubling in network assets from $3 trillion to $6 trillion in the last 12 months alone.

As Matt shares, the firm’s growth is indicative of a changing environment among investors moving beyond the traditional 60/40 portfolio to one that looks more like a 50/30/20 model based on stocks, bonds, and alts.

In this special episode with Louis Diamond, Matt offers a glimpse into how his vision became a model for success in the industry, including:

• “The Great Reallocation of capital into alternative strategies,” as Matt calls it—and the impact of this evolution on the private wealth channel.
• Alts as an extraordinary growth engine—and Matt’s advice for advisors who are looking to add new avenues of opportunity for their clients and businesses.
• Key considerations for advisors thinking about changing firms or models—and how to best replicate or improve upon what they currently offer their clients.
• Plus, Matt shares his keen perspective of what’s on the horizon—and much more!

Also in this episode, we launch a new segment called Founder’s Blueprint. It’s an idea that was born out of listener comments for more backstories from some of the most successful entrepreneurs in the industry. Our goal is to share each founder’s unique “why” and “how” to help spark ideas and eliminate the fear that comes with the unknown.

We’re gathering each entrepreneur’s journey for a special digest episode at the end of the year. So be sure to listen in to get a quick download from Matt on what it took to get from A to B – and beyond.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe Competition Conundrum: Charge Less or Offer More?
Clients have more choices than ever before. Here are 5 ways to stand out from the crowd.

Finding the Shortest Path to Excellence Can Be a Game Changer for Advisors
Doing everything you can to deliver better service, drive growth, and achieve your goals faster can result in extraordinary benefits.

The Inverse Grid: Is Your Firm Providing Enough Value?
When considering the products and services a firm provides in exchange for the revenue they keep, is it really a good value?

Matt Brown
Founder, CEO, and Chairman

Matt Brown is the Founder, CEO, and Chairman of CAIS and has spent more than 30 years at the intersection of wealth management, alternative investments, and technology. In 2009, he founded the technology platform CAIS, the industry pioneer in democratizing alternative investments. Matt’s vision and leadership earned recognition in 2023, when he was named one of “The World’s Most Influential Decision Makers” by The Wall Street Journal.

Matt believes in the “American Dream” and ensuring that anyone with a dream, and the drive to achieve it, has an equal opportunity to make it happen. Matt joined Endeavor in 2001, the leading non-profit organization establishing entrepreneurial ecosystems in over 40 countries. Matt served on Endeavor’s Global Board of Directors and supported entrepreneurs in Latin America, Africa, Middle East, and United States.

Matt is on the Board of Trustees of the Museum of the City of New York and serves on the Executive Committee. Founded in 1923, the Museum reflects the essence of New York City, where people from all walks of life come together to create, innovate, and pursue their aspirations. Today, through immersive experiences, exhibitions, and programming, the Museum celebrates, documents and interprets the past, present and future of New York City.

Matt earned his Bachelor of Arts degree from Saint Mary’s College of California in 1991 and started his career at Shearson Lehman Brothers as a financial advisor. Matt is married to his wife of 22 years and the proud father of four.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Russell Crow and William “Billy” Diehl — Partners, Managing Directors, Beacon PointeOverviewThe first breakaway team to join Beacon Pointe Advisors offers a perspective on change at the wirehouses, the value of being a true fiduciary, the responsibility to a client and advisor’s business on serving an expanding list of client needs, taking a long-term look at the business, and much more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…It’s hard to criticize the firm you work for when you’ve built a business managing $2B in client assets.

But a reality exists for many top advisors like the guests on this episode.

That is, they recognize how the industry and their clients’ needs are evolving—and that their firm may not be equipped to support them for the long term.

Russell Crow and William “Billy” Diehl invested nearly 3 decades each in the wirehouse world, most recently as Managing Directors at UBS.

They watched as the financial advice industry morphed from a transactional model to one in which advisors served a wide variety of client needs. That is, financial advisors were more embedded in the lives of their clients, with seats at the table for decisions well beyond the world of stocks and bonds.

They were now expected to be true fiduciaries, serving their clients not just as a financial advisor but instead as a financial concierge.

It was a concept that fit well into Russell and Billy’s vision for their business, but did not necessarily align with the firm’s vision.

Ultimately, they left the wirehouse world in October of 2023 to join Beacon Pointe Advisors as the first breakaway team to integrate with the firm.

In this episode, Russell and Billy share a compelling narrative with Mindy Diamond, including:

• The changes they saw over decades in the wirehouse world—and how that inspired them to consider other options at this stage of their business.
• The evolution of their clients’ needs—and what specific things they can do for them now that they could not at UBS.
• The value of being a true fiduciary— and their clients’ reaction to learn that “technically” they were not as employees of the wirehouse.
• The choice to transition to Beacon Pointe—and why the firm won over another wirehouse or full-on independence.

It’s an episode with relatable experiences and actionable advice for both wirehouse advisors and independent advisors alike.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe Juggling Act: Balancing Short-Term Needs and Long-Term GoalsA process to help you identify and prioritize your immediate needs vs goals for the future when considering a move

Investing in Growth: Exploring KKR’s Attraction to $25B+ RIA Beacon PointeWhat does it take to garner the attention of one of the leading private equity firms in the world? Beacon Pointe’s President Matt Cooper and Sasank Chary, Managing Director of KKR, discuss the key drivers of their strategic partnership, explore Beacon Pointe’s extraordinary growth, share advice on what it takes to make your firm attractive to an investor, and much more.

The 5 Attributes That Make a Financial Advisor a “Real” FiduciaryWirehouse advisors are recognizing that being a true fiduciary is impossible as an employee—and it’s adding more fuel to the flow of movement to independence.

Russell Crow
Partner and Managing Director

Russell Crow is a Partner and Managing Director at Beacon Pointe Advisors and brings over 25 years of professional experience advising ultra-high-net-worth families, institutions, and business owners. Prior to joining Beacon Pointe in 2023, Russell served as Managing Director at UBS for 14 years after spending 7 years at Goldman Sachs and 4 years with Morgan Stanley in New York, Houston & Dallas. He received his BA from the University of Arkansas, his MBA from Arizona State University, and his MIM from Thunderbird, the American Graduate School of International Management.

William (Billy) DiehlPartner and Managing Director

William (Billy) Diehl is a Partner and Managing Director at Beacon Pointe Advisors and brings over 25 years of professional experience advising ultrahigh-net-worth families, institutions, and business owners. Prior to joining Beacon Pointe in 2023, Billy served as Managing Director at UBS for 14 years after spending 7 years at Goldman Sachs and 4 years with Morgan Stanley in New York, Houston & Dallas. He holds the Certified Financial Analyst (CFA) designation and received his BA from Vanderbilt University and his MBA from the University of Texas at Austin.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Jeremy Holly, Executive Vice President Strategic Business Development and Jared Fingeret, Senior Vice President—LPL FinancialOverviewSuccession and monetization are hot topics for advisors in every model. LPL Financial’s Liquidity and Succession program representatives discuss what advisors, independent business owners, and next gens need to consider as they grow their businesses and explore long-term and short-term options, plus best practices to prepare for a transition and maximize business value.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Succession planning is one area in wealth management that seems to have trouble keeping up with the industry’s growth and evolution.

Research studies indicate that less than 30% of advisors have a succession plan. Many more who run thriving businesses have no strategy at the ready should a worst-case scenario leave them unable to attend to their clients’ needs or even continue their livelihood.

Likewise, many advisors are still looking at the equity they’ve accumulated in their firms and wondering how they can access it—whether to monetize their life’s work or reinvest in the business’ growth.

While advisors have a lot to evaluate, including many prospective external capital partners and investors, the good news is that there are firms that realize there are great partnership opportunities available internally with these thriving practices.

In this episode, LPL Financial’s Jeremy Holly, Executive Vice President of Strategic Business Development, and Jared Fingeret, Senior Vice President, join Louis Diamond to discuss this critical topic.

Jeremy and Jared represent LPL’s Liquidity and Succession program, which provides end-to-end solutions for advisors looking to increase business value and monetize the legacy they’ve built.

So in this episode, they share perspectives for both business founders and next gens on what they need to consider as they grow their businesses and explore both the long-term and the short-term, including:

• Succession options that exist for advisors—and how new pathways are being born every day.
• Sunset deals offered by the wirehouses—and how they might compare to an option from a firm like LPL or others.
• Monetization options—and how each avenue can impact a business owner and the next gen.
• The state of valuations—and what advisors need to know and the steps to take to maximize the value of their business.

It’s a conversation relevant to advisors and next gens in the wirehouses, independent firms, and everywhere in between.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesAn Insider’s Perspective of LPL Strategic Wealth Services: A “Modern” Supported Independence ModelKimberly Sanders, Senior Vice President of Advisor Solutions for LPL Strategic Wealth Services discusses the evolution of the supported independence space and dives into how models like LPL’s address the changing needs of advisors and their clients. Kimberly also helps to answer the question: What drives an advisor’s decision of one model vs. another in an industry landscape replete with just about every option under the sun?

The Next Gen Dilemma: 5 Unique Realities Faced by Successors
The path for next gen advisors can be wrought with some pitfalls, yet when walked with confidence and flexibility, it can be immensely rewarding.

Top Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a Move
In this document, we have compiled the most salient tips collected from over two decades of helping our advisor-clients through successful transitions. Whether you’re just at the curiosity stage or are deep into the due diligence process, there are plenty of things you can be doing in the background to prepare your business and team for a potential move.

Jeremy Holly
Executive Vice President

Jeremy Holly serves as Executive Vice President of LPL Capital Partners for LPL Financial. In this role, Holly and his team are responsible for the creation, development, execution and oversight of LPL’s suite of offerings designed to help financial advisors looking to grow through acquisition, access liquidity from their business, monetize their life’s work through a sale of their practice or protect the legacy they’ve built.

Serving as a key leader with LPL for more than two decades, Holly has held numerous roles across corporate development, advisor financial solutions, national sales, strategy and finance. After stepping away for two years to serve as chief development and integration officer for SageView Advisory Group, where he was responsible for the firm’s acquisitions, recruiting, and synergy realization, Holly rejoined LPL Financial in 2023.

Holly is a graduate of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill with a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration. He lives in San Diego.

Jared Fingeret
Senior Vice President

Jared Fingeret serves as Senior Vice President of LPL Liquidity & Capital, which addresses advisors’ monetization and succession needs. In this role, he is responsible for crafting the strategy and execution of LPL’s proprietary M&A offerings to help financial advisors monetize their business through either a full or partial book sale, transition out of their business, or protect the legacy they’ve built.

With more than a decade of experience in the financial services industry, Fingeret joined LPL Financial in 2022 from HighTower where he served as Director of M&A. He also held previous roles with Focus Financial Partners and Deloitte.

Fingeret is a graduate of Rutgers University with a Bachelor of Science in Finance. He lives in Brooklyn, N.Y. with his wife, two children, and their cat, a Russian Blue, named Boris Ivanovich.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Jeff Brown – President, Stratos Private WealthOverviewJeff Brown wore many hats in his career as he transitioned his book of business from the wirehouses to independence. Yet a nagging “what if” feeling inspired him to conduct strategic due diligence, leading him first to sell a minority stake in his business and later a majority stake. Now, as President of Stratos Private Wealth, he shares a unique journey.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Some advisors spend their entire career with one firm, while others will choose to make one well-timed move. And there are others still who have experienced many different corners of the industry.

It’s these latter folks who often make the most compelling guests on our show because they’ve truly seen it all!

Jeff Brown is one such advisor. He started his path in wealth management at American Express, Morgan Stanley, and Wells Fargo Advisors. Then Jeff left the wirehouse world to start Brown Wealth Management with the support of Stratos Wealth Partners, which, after a subsequent merger, became BWM Financial.

He built a strong practice, always looking at ways to grow and serve his clients.

Yet a coaching session with Ray Sclafani got him thinking about the future and an eventual exit strategy. Not even 50 years old at the time, he figured he had a good runway ahead. But “what if” lingered in his head…

That is, what if something happened and he didn’t have a clear plan for his firm, his clients, his livelihood, and his family?

So, after a round of due diligence, Jeff decided to further cement his relationship with Stratos by selling them a minority position in his business in 2020.

But the story doesn’t end there…

Just last year, he sold a majority stake to Stratos to take the firm national. In doing so, he is now the President of a much larger entity, Stratos Private Wealth.

In this episode, Jeff shares a candid narrative with Jason Diamond, including:

• Lessons learned early on in the wirehouse world—and how that shaped his business going forward.
• The steps he took along the way—and how what he learned can help other advisors considering change.
• Wearing different hats throughout his career—and how he prepared for each.
• The choice to sell a minority stake in the business—and what Jeff saw in Stratos that inspired him to go all in.
• The role of vision in the evolution of his business—and how the choices made were not financial but purposeful.
• Thoughts about succession planning—and why playing the long game needs to start sooner in an advisor’s career.

Jeff offers compelling advice for every advisor – from employees at the wirehouses to independent business owners – with actionable advice and insights.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesBuilding Enterprise Value: A Coach’s Advice for Advisors and TeamsRay Sclafani of ClientWise discusses the key areas that employee advisors and independent business owners can impact to influence sustainable growth, enhance client relationships, and ultimately build “exit” value.

Looking at M&A from the Seller’s Side of the TableJeff Concepcion of Stratos Wealth Partners shares why he chose Emigrant Partners as a capital partner, what independent firm owners need to do when preparing for an acquisition, how he grew his firm from zero to $14B AUM in just 12 years, and more.

The Strategic Due Diligence Roadmap for Financial AdvisorsA visual guide to help financial advisors embark upon an efficient process—one that is more likely to result in discovering Your Best Business Life™.

Jeff Brown
Founder & President

I started my career at a wirehouse at 27. I was originally taught it was all about making dials and contacts, so I duct taped 2 headsets together and finished my first year #1 in my training class. I took that bonus and split it b/n a down payment on a house and hiring my first of many business coaches. Prudential became Wachovia and Wachovia became Wells. I made the decision to go independent in 2015 and use Stratos Wealth Partners for supported independence. I left with $400MM under management and 5 people. I have grown our firm to $1.5 billion and 22 employees. I engineered the sale of my brokerage business to Stratos in 2018, I sold a minority stake to them in 2020, and just sold a controlling stake this April to create my vision of a singular brand inside of Stratos called Stratos Private Wealth. We are going to be adding Tax advice, systematic lead generation and a variety of other services to the offices that join. We have an interesting financial incentive that helps with succession planning that I could get into where Stratos can buy a certain % of their business with a multiple lift in the event Stratos has a capital event.

One of the things that has helped us scale has been the process that we created for attracting, retaining, and training new advisors. I gave a presentation on this at the Barrons 2022 Independent conference that was very well received. We have built a career path for them and don’t require them to raise money (unlike how I entered the business!). This was one of the areas that Michael Kitces focused on when he interviewed me recently.

In addition to running Stratos Private Wealth (with almost no clients anymore), I am an advisor coach with Clientwise and sit on the advisory board of Income Lab, a Fintech company in our space. I have had lots of advisors reach out to understand my journey from advisor to CEO to selling a stake in the business while now taking on a national role in the larger organization.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Duncan MacPherson, CEO, Pareto SystemsOverviewDuncan MacPherson from Pareto Systems offers actionable advice for financial advisors looking to unlock greater value in all that they do to build their business. It’s like having a free session on growth with one of the best coaches in the business.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Growth is hands-down one of the most popular topics on this podcast series.

While listeners seem to gravitate toward advisors’ stories that share the “secret sauce” of their success, it’s the “how-to” episodes from industry-leading coaches that are often the most widely listened-to.

So this one will certainly not disappoint!

In this episode, Duncan MacPherson, the CEO of Pareto Systems, joins Louis Diamond to offer advice on how to make your business “not just profitable, but purposeful.”

And Duncan and his team have developed their own unique methodology to help you achieve just that. Their “Blue Square Method” aims to help advisors find their own “Blue Square”—that is, the sweet spot where business aligns with passion and purpose.

And, by doing so, advisors can unlock far greater value in all that they do to build their business—whether that be at a wirehouse, as independent business owners, or somewhere in between.

In this episode, Duncan talks about that methodology and much more, including:

• Best practices to help drive sustainable organic growth—and what you need to know to start moving the needle today.
• The value of scale—and what fundamental strategies you should be considering.
• Evaluating your current firm or model—and how a transition might be the game-changer you’re looking for.
• Positioning a move to clients—and how their “PSP” process provides a framework to ensure a smooth transition.
• Working on the business vs in it—and how you can embrace a mindset driven to focus on strategic and purposeful growth.
• And, ultimately, what some of the most successful advisors in the business are doing—and how you can adopt some of their methodologies to achieve your best business life.

It’s like having a free session with one of the best coaches in the business—complete with actionable advice for advisors who are building their practices in employee model firms on through to business owners looking to reach beyond the next level of success.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesWhat Really Makes Financial Advisors Happy?In a world driven by the bottom line, the root of contentment often lies behind less “easily measured” criteria.

How to Add Value at a Time When it’s Needed Most: A conversation with speaker and co-author of The Go-Giver series, Bob Burg
How can advisors better communicate with clients and prospects in a way that is authentic, meaningful and adds value – especially in times of crisis? Bob Burg, the co-author of The Go-Giver book series, shares that and more in this special episode.

Michael Kitces on Advisor Wellbeing: How Autonomy is Trumping Income When it Comes to Advisor Happiness
Listen in for an insightful and revealing look into advisors’ minds and what really makes them happy, based on data from the latest Kitces survey. Learn the motivations and drivers that lead not only to success but to a better quality of life.

Duncan MacPherson
Speaker | Business Coach | Author

Guided by a passion for unlocking potential, Duncan leads Pareto Systems as CEO, where we partner with Financial Professionals and visionary financial firms. Our goal? To architect businesses that are not just profitable, but also purposeful. Recognized for our unique methodology inspired by best practices and the principles of ‘The Blue Square Method,’ Duncan and the team aim to help professionals find their own ‘Blue Square’—that sweet spot where business aligns with passion and purpose.

As a speaker in high demand, Duncan travels extensively throughout North America and around the world, conveying dynamic and factrich presentations that have made him a popular spokesperson for the Financial Services industry. Duncan’s expertise in demystifying business development and marketing in the financial world has universal appeal; from the high-level advisor to the successful wholesaler, to corporate financial institutions. Duncan’s primary goal is to help Professionals achieve liberation and order in their businesses through step-by-step methodology and execution.

Duncan is also an industry best-selling author and has written many books including: The Advisor Playbook and The Blue Square Method; the mindset and best-practices of top fee-for-service professionals. Beyond the office, Duncan loves spending time with his wife and two sons. They enjoy the four-seasons playground they call home in beautiful Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada. He enjoys staying active with recreational activities such as golf, tennis, pickleball and skiing.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Dustin Cali and Daniel Ventura – Founding Partners, Praetego Private WealthOverviewWhile the built-in referral mechanism of a bank brokerage firm can help grow a client base, over time, the firm’s “guardrails” naturally limit those who have their sights set on creating something bigger and better. Dustin Cali and Daniel Ventura of Praetego Private Wealth broke away to do just that: Build a business designed for the future, poised for growth and scale, with the freedom to serve clients’ unique needs.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…No one likes to feel limited by the firm or model you’ve built your business at.

Unfortunately, it’s not uncommon for advisors to reach that point—particularly when they are employees of a much larger institution, like a bank brokerage.

Many young advisors start their careers at bank branches. They provide a solid training ground, a steady flow of referrals, and scaffolding and support to keep them on track.

While the built-in referral mechanism can help grow a client base, over time, the firm’s “guardrails” naturally limit those who have their sights set on creating something bigger and better—a business designed for the future, poised for growth and scale, with the freedom to serve clients’ unique needs.

Dustin Cali and Daniel Ventura invested just over a decade each as Private Client Advisors at J.P. Morgan. As young advisors with high ambitions, they watched as industry peers built successful independent businesses.

And that got them thinking, “Why not sooner, rather than later?”

So together they launched independent firm Praetego Private Wealth on the Sanctuary Wealth platform.

In this episode with Mindy Diamond, Dustin and Daniel offer a unique perspective for bank brokers, private bankers, and other young advisors who have the vision to build “something better,” including:

• The choice to partner up—and why they opted to launch an independent practice on the Sanctuary Wealth platform.
• Their transition process—and how they managed portability concerns inherent to the banking model.
• The choice to make the leap to independence early in their careers—and why they didn’t opt for a transition deal from another firm.
• The limitations they found in the bank brokerage model—and how they grow, scale, and serve their client base differently in independence.
• And they offer advice to advisors on the real potential to build and grow the business of their dreams—plus much more.

It’s an episode that will appeal to advisors who have thought, “We could be doing things better,” with relatable experiences from those who were once in that very place.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesMaxCeV™ – How to Maximize Your Career Enterprise Value
This formula seeks to provide a process by which an advisor can “calculate” the sum total of 4 key factors—to conceptualize what their career enterprise value really is and how to achieve it. It’s one of the central tenets of Diamond Consultants’ process in guiding advisors through due diligence.

Private Bankers Considering Change: What You Need to Know
There’s been an interesting shift in movement amongst one sector of wealth management: private bankers.[

Dustin CaliPrivate Wealth Advisor & Founding Partner

Dustin co-founded Praetego Private Wealth after working at J.P. Morgan for more than a decade, serving high net worth clients and advising on over $100 million in client assets. Born and raised in Florida, Dustin graduated from University of South Florida with a Bachelor’s degree in Finance. He also earned the CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ designation, recognized as the highest industry credential. In addition to holding the FINRA Series 7 & 66 licenses, Dustin obtained the IRS Enrolled Agent designation in order to provide ongoing tax advice as an integrated part of a client’s financial plan.

Dustin currently resides in Trinity, Florida, with his wife Megan and their two boys, Jackson and Jameson.

Daniel Ventura
Private Wealth Advisor & Founding Partner

After working for more than 10 years at J.P. Morgan and Merrill Lynch, Daniel Ventura co-founded Praetego Private Wealth with the goal of providing clients with the advantages that an independent wealth management firm can deliver. Originally from Camden, New Jersey, Daniel earned his Finance degree from Immaculata University in Pennsylvania, where he played soccer and worked as a finance/accounting tutor. He later earned a Master’s degree in Securities Analysis and Portfolio Management from Creighton University in Omaha, Nebraska. Daniel holds the FINRA Series 7 & 66 and Florida Health & Life Agent licenses. He has earned the designations of CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ IRS Enrolled Agent, two credentials that he uses to provide clients with a holistic approach to their financial planning needs.

Daniel lives in Trinity, Florida, with his wife, Kayla, a labor nurse, their son, Harrison, and Stella, a dachshund rescue. Daniel enjoys spending time with his family, playing golf and especially soccer, which he has played the majority of his life.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Corey Kupfer—Attorney, Deal-maker, Speaker, and AuthorOverviewExpert industry attorney Corey Kupfer offers advice to all advisors, whether considering change or not, including perspectives on contractual obligations and potential landmines one might encounter in a move, plus how to prepare your business for change, with actionable best practices to adopt today.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…The process of considering change is wrought with complexity. For those who decide to make a move, there’s an entirely new set of considerations and potential complications—particularly in the regulatory-heavy, compliance-driven world that advisors now live in.

The good news is that there are attorneys who are highly experienced in securities law and advisor transitions who live and breathe this world. They identify the proper path for advisors to follow throughout the course of their transitions to ensure the process before, during, and after is as smooth as possible to avoid any potential legal repercussions. And they’re available to counsel all advisors, even those who haven’t decided to make a move but want to understand better the ties that bind them to their firm.

The bottom line is that the right attorney can quite literally be the difference between success and failure in an advisor transition.

Corey Kupfer is one such attorney with 35 years of experience serving as a legal guide and strategist to financial advisors. He joins Louis Diamond to discuss what advisors need to know when considering a transition, M&A, and other transactions along the way, including:

• Your contractual obligations—and what you need to know whether you’re planning a transition or not.
• The current regulatory state in wealth management—and how that impacts you and your clients.
• The transition process—and what potential land mines you need to watch out for.
• The dreaded TRO—and Corey’s insider perspective on how concerned an advisor needs to be.
• The future of non-competes—and how that might impact advisors considering change.
• Plus, Corey and Louis discuss the industry landscape and how the evolution is impacting advisor movement.

It’s an episode designed for all advisors, whether considering change or not, as it’s an opportunity to hear directly from an attorney about his perspective, predictions, and actionable best practices.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesWhat Can Go Wrong in a Transition: How to Avoid “Murphy’s Law”7 ways a financial advisor’s move can take an unexpected wrong turn—and ways to prevent that from happening.

Financing Independence: A Lender’s Perspective on Breakaway Transitions, M&A and SuccessionJames Hughes of Live Oak Bank discusses debt financing for prospective breakaway advisors looking to de-risk a leap to independence or payoff a note balance, or business owners seeking funds for acquisitions or succession planning.

Top Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a MoveIn this document, we have compiled the most salient tips collected from over two decades of helping our advisor-clients through successful transitions. So, whether you’re just at the curiosity stage or are deep into the due diligence process, there are plenty of things you can be doing in the background to prepare your business and team for a potential move.

Corey Kupfer
Attorney, Deal-maker, Speaker, and Author

Corey Kupfer is an expert strategist, negotiator and dealmaker with over 35 years of professional deal-making and negotiating experience as a successful entrepreneur, attorney, consultant, author and professional speaker. He is the founder and principal of Kupfer & Associates, PLLC, a leading corporate and deal law firm; the founder and CEO of DealQuest, a speaking, training and consulting company; the author of the Amazon best-selling book Authentic Negotiating: Clarity, Detachment & Equilibrium – The Three Keys To True Negotiating Success & How To Achieve Them. He is alsothe creator and host of the Top 1% ranked DealQuest Podcast. Corey originally joined EO NY in 2008 and was President of EO NY from 2013-15. He is currently a member of the EO Los Angeles and East Bridge Chapters and is the MyEO DealExchange Champion.

You can learn more about Corey, his companies, and current projects at www.kupferlaw.com and corey@coreykupfer.com.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Mindy Diamond and Louis DiamondOverviewIn a world managed to the lowest common denominator and driven by heavy-handed compliance, every employee advisor is vulnerable. In this episode, Mindy and Louis break it all down, share warning signs all advisors should pay attention to and proactive steps an advisor can take to protect themselves.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…It’s something no advisor wants to hear: You are vulnerable.

Whether you’re a star performer with direct access to the top or someone who runs a comfortable lifestyle practice, the reality is if you are an employee of a firm, you are subject to a higher level of risk and compliance scrutiny than ever before.

Certainly, you might be saying, “That’s just a scare tactic. I have nothing to fear.”

Yet, the reality is that any advisor who works for a big firm is subject to a heavy-handed compliance environment designed to ensure that ALL advisors operate under a single code of conduct. And while that culture may work for some, it doesn’t work for most.

Even those who operate with legitimate exceptions, or others who say, “I’ve been doing that for years,” are now finding themselves in a place they don’t want to be.

So the goal of this episode is to identify the traps before they become a bigger issue—like administrative leave, heightened supervision, or termination.

Mindy Diamond and Louis Diamond answer these critical questions—and more:

• What does it mean to be “vulnerable”?
• Why has this become a growing issue over recent years?
• Why does this impact employee advisors more than those who are not bound to their firm by a W-2?
• If an advisor has a spotless record and runs a growing practice, should they still be concerned?
• What about larger teams that operate with exceptions, are they at risk?
• What are some warning signs all advisors should pay attention to?
• What are proactive steps an advisor can take?
• What happens if an advisor is terminated?
• And ultimately, how do you survive in an environment that seems designed to catch you in the act?

It’s likely one of the most important conversations we’ve had to date, so be sure to listen in.

Download: Vulnerability & Termination: An Advisor’s Survival GuideWant to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesYou ARE Vulnerable: A Reality Check for All Wirehouse Advisors
There is a new reality for advisors who work for a wirehouse: An undercurrent of vulnerability.

From Termination to Expungement: A Former $350mm UBS Advisor Finds Success in Independence
The heightened sense of vulnerability in the big firms became a reality for Jeff Boudjouk who was terminated from UBS—a charge which has since been expunged. Jeff shares the harrowing journey, how he and his partner Anthony Landi found a new home in independence with Kestra Private Wealth Services as Northeast Investment Group.

Vulnerability & Termination: An Advisor’s Survival Guide
A list of steps to take if you feel vulnerable, are under investigation or heightened supervision or have been terminated.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Michael Dolberg – Founding Partner and CEO, Apollon Wealth ManagementOverviewBuilding a firm from $120mm in assets to over $7.5B in just 6 years is an incredible feat. Mike Dolberg describes how he and the team at Apollon recognized the value of culture, partnership, and the freedom to serve clients—and how that realization ultimately drove their astounding success.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Culture is an overused buzzword in our industry.

It seems that the largest of firms suffer most from cultures that their advisors often describe as “broken”—a product of continual growth that forced philosophical tenants to be redesigned in a more bureaucratic fashion. That is, what works best for the masses.

Yet as more advisors launch independent firms, they’re doing so with a different ethos: One that’s more focused on developing a culture that is appealing to other like-minded advisors. As a result, many of these firms are dominating the field in attracting and retaining top talent.

For Mike Dolberg, finding the right team members who shared the same ideals was a critical part of designing a firm poised for longevity and growth.

In his eyes, having fun and loving what you do as an advisor are the real keys to success.

Mike’s own wealth management career started in insurance in 2004, eventually landing at Northwestern Mutual. He and partner Rob Gorman learned the planning business from the ground up, cold calling their way to success.

Within a year at Northwestern Mutual, Mike became a Managing Director of their local region, growing the business and developing strong client relationships.

But Northwestern is first and foremost an insurance company, so naturally, over time, the team felt limited in what they could deliver to their clients. They wanted the autonomy to build and grow the business their way, based on their own culture and philosophies, not the firm’s.

Mike was essentially an enterprise builder in a captive environment. And it wasn’t as much fun anymore.

So, in 2018 they launched the RIA firm Apollon Wealth Management, which managed approximately $120mm at its inception. Just six years later, it’s a $7.5B firm, with multiple locations across the country and separate business units.

In this episode, Mike shares his amazing story with Louis Diamond, including:

• The factors behind their choice to leave Northwestern—and what specifically limited their growth while at the insurance broker dealer.
• The key things that contributed to Apollon’s growth—and how culture and client service are intrinsically connected to their success.
• The services they can now provide to their clients—and how that’s changed as a fully independent firm.
• The value of partnership—and how Merchant Investment Management helped forge the relationship between Mike and Rob.
• And why Mike says, “Good shouldn’t be good enough”—plus much more.

It’s a conversation that offers value for those who are looking at the various ways an advisor, practice, or firm can grow and thrive—and how the right culture can help drive success.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesWhen it Comes to Attracting and Retaining Advisors, Culture Really is KingHow these 5 key characteristics set the stage for a more positive and productive environment for financial advisors.

The Top 5 Reasons Why Northwestern Mutual Advisors Are Changing FirmsA growing trend of departures from Northwestern Mutual has left many of the firm’s advisors wondering what’s driving the momentum—and what their colleagues are finding on the other side.

A Northwestern Mutual Advisor’s “Jerry Maguire-Style” Breakaway Story
As a Managing Director at Northwestern Mutual, Brett Gilliland had a unique perspective of the limitations at the firm. So, after 13 years and with $300mm in AUM, he left to build Visionary Wealth Advisors, today a $1.8B firm.

Michael J. DolbergCEO and a Founding Partner

Michael J. Dolberg is the CEO and a founding partner at Apollon Wealth Management, a collaborative and transparent financial planning firm focused on aligning clients’ goals of growing and preserving their hard-earned wealth. Apollon set out to change the model for investing away from a product platform to one that is 100% client-driven. With exceptional white-glove service, Mike and the Apollon team have executed the founding partners’ vision of creating an independent organization with the mission of enriching the lives of others through collaborative financial planning and guidance.

With passion and purpose, Mike and team have created a comprehensive wealth management and planning organization designed to deliver multi-family office and business planning solutions and services with scale and consistency. Driven to expand the firm’s footprint across the country, Apollon possesses a fully integrated advisor experience with a strong interdependence of central and local services, industry specialists, and a collaborative approach to maximize the value and deliverables to the clients they serve. Since its inception back in February of 2018, Apollon has opened office locations in multiple states across the nation and has been recognized as one of the fastest-growing RIAs in the country.

Prior to Apollon, Michael served as a Managing Director and Wealth Management Advisor at Northwestern Mutual. After a brief stint as a Chef in Charleston, He began his career in financial services in 2003. He was appointed Managing Director at the age of 25 and won numerous awards both for his work as an advisor and for his exceptional recruiting and retaining of advisors within the thriving business.

Mike has a huge passion for spending time with his family as well as giving back to the community. He is a board member of Medical University of South Carolina Children’s Hospital and is a devoted supporter of South Carolina Special Olympics (and past board member). He and his wife, Kristen, reside in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina with their three sons, Benjamin, Beau, and Bradford.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Reza Zamani – Founding Partner and Chief Executive Officer, SteelPeak WealthOverviewAfter a dozen years in the wirehouse world, Reza Zamani began to recognize the limitations inherent to the model. So in 2012, he left to launch SteelPeak Wealth with $250mm in AUM. Today, they manage $3B and have 20 advisors on their team. Reza discusses how the decision to break away led to tremendous growth.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Wirehouses are massive institutions that have no choice but to operate on a level that is best for the largest majority of advisors—often referred to as managing to the lowest common denominator.

And that model works perfectly well for many advisors who are building their businesses at these firms. But for others with their sights set on the future, and having greater freedom in serving clients and growing the business, it may not be the right fit.

Reza Zamani is someone who experienced this firsthand. From 2000 to 2012, he was a wirehouse advisor—first with UBS and later with Morgan Stanley.

Yet 2012 would mark the year he decided to leave the wirehouse world to build his own independent firm.

The wirehouses proved too limiting for Reza. He wanted clients to be able to “have it all” without sacrificing solutions or service, and to be free of any conflicts of interest inherent to a larger institution.

It’s a common refrain shared by many advisors who change firms or models.

Reza’s decision to break away was a good one. He started SteelPeak Wealth in 2012 with $250mm in AUM. Today, they manage $3B and have 20 advisors on their team.

In this episode, Reza joins Louis Diamond to talk about the decision to leave the wirehouse world and how that translated into tremendous growth, including:

• The choice to leave the wirehouse world—and why independence was the right path.
• Dispelling the notion that independence means going it alone—and how the seemingly limitless support system and resources helped pave the way for their success.
• The value of taking on a minority investor—and what that partnership allowed them to achieve.
• Running a billion-dollar business—and how it differs from his life at the wirehouses.

The reality is that independence is not for everyone. But for those seeking greater freedom and control than they may be experiencing with their current firm, it offers a path that can allow them to achieve their goals. It’s an episode worth investing the time to listen to, with takeaways for employee advisors and independent business owners alike.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesIf Not Another Wirehouse, Then What?Advisors considering change want something more than what they have at their current firm. The good news is that there’s plenty to choose from. But that’s the bad news, too.

How to Navigate the Emotional Rollercoaster Ride of a Transition: A Special Industry UpdateMindy Diamond and Louis Diamond share ideas from 25 years of experience to help advisors navigate the daunting process of transition and advice on how to better cope with what can feel like a tumultuous ride.

Diamond Consultants 2023 Advisor Transition ReportAn Update on Advisor Movement in the Wealth Management Industry.

Reza Zamani
Founding Partner and Chief Executive Officer

Reza received his bachelor’s degree in Business Economics with a minor in Sports Management from the University of California at Santa Barbara, where he played NCAA Division I soccer. He believes his history as a high-level athlete prepared him well for the process of building a team that is enthusiastic, passionate, and hard-working. He also graduated from UCLA’s Management Development Program at the Anderson School of Management. Reza is an Accredited Investment Fiduciary and holds the Certified Portfolio Manager, CPM®, designation from Columbia University and the Academy of Certified Portfolio Managers. In addition, he is accredited as a Certified Fund Specialist, CFS®, and Certified Annuity Specialist, CAS®.

Reza spent the first 13 years of his career at two major Wall Street firms. He served as a Senior Vice President at UBS and Senior Portfolio Director at Morgan Stanley before forming SteelPeak Wealth in 2012. During his early years with major Wall Street firms, he always envisioned an independent advisory firm dedicated to providing a higher level of value and exceptional service to clients. Today, Reza’s vision of a talented team of advisors and management providing distinguished fiduciary services to clients has come to fruition in SteelPeak Wealth. SteelPeak Wealth represents Reza’s ideals of innovation, tenacity, and client empathy.

Reza believes that giving back to the community is vital. He has served as a board member for non-profit organizations such as Providence Saint Joseph Medical Center and The Wellness Community of Los Angeles. He is currently involved with the Boys & Girls Club of Malibu. He is a frequent wealth management expert and contributor to many media outlets such as Fox Business News, Barron’s and The Wall Street Journal. His passions include spending time with his two children and focusing on daily fitness to enrich his physical and mental health.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Rob Nelson – CEO and Founder, NorthRock PartnersOverviewSince his last visit on the show 5 years ago, Rob Nelson’s NorthRock Partners has grown exponentially, serving a high net worth client base of professional athletes, entrepreneurs, and corporate executives. Rob offers valuable lessons derived from finding the “clearest path to excellence” for his clients and the NorthRock team.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…This episode is fueled by the perspective of hindsight, which provides a unique lens into the growth trajectory of an RIA.

Five years ago, Rob Nelson joined us on this series to talk about his business model, which “organically evolved,” as he put it, to serve a high net worth client base of professional athletes, entrepreneurs, corporate executives, and philanthropists.

Rob built the foundation of his practice at Ameriprise and its predecessors in 1993, and later transitioned from the broker dealer to become a fully independent RIA in 2013.

Rob and his team embraced an expansive list of services, many growing out of specific client needs and requests. In short order, they had created a firm that touted specifically tailored offerings—even a separate firm focused solely on philanthropic efforts.

NorthRock’s early success attracted an equity investment from Emigrant Partners and, more recently, insurance holding company Sammons Financial Group.

From 2019 to today, NorthRock grew from $1.9B to over $6B, with over 150 employees and 7 locations. Plus, Rob is set on doubling the business over the next two years.

The fact that they grew so rapidly isn’t the real story here—it’s how they did it.

In this episode, Mindy Diamond revisits Rob’s journey, discussing how they got from there to here, including:

• The NorthRock formula for success—and how their strategies can be leveraged as a blueprint to turbocharge growth.
• Their extraordinary client base—and what specific needs NorthRock addresses for them.
• The value of partnerships—and how Sammons Financial Group plays into their future goals.
• The role of “excellence”—and why that’s a critical part of their work with clients and the NorthRock team’s path forward.

Plus, Rob talks about their partnerships, M&A, philanthropy, and their plans for future growth. It’s an episode that looks at a timeline of success, with key takeaways for wirehouse advisors, business owners, and everyone in between.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesFinancing Independence: A Lender’s Perspective on Breakaway Transitions, M&A and Succession
James Hughes of Live Oak Bank discusses debt financing for prospective breakaway advisors looking to de-risk a leap to independence or payoff a note balance, or business owners seeking funds for acquisitions or succession planning.

Summit Trail’s Jack Petersen on How Their Blockbuster Break Created a $16B Firm Designed to Serve the Unique Needs of UHNW Clients
The Barclays breakaway discusses his 2015 landmark leap with 5 partners, 3 offices, and $3B in AUM, plus shares why he feels UHNW clients are best served in independence, what they do to drive extraordinary growth, and much more.

Top Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a Move
In this document, we have compiled the most salient tips collected from over two decades of helping our advisor-clients through successful transitions.

Rob Nelson
CEO & Founder

Rob Nelson is Chief Executive Officer and Founder of NorthRock Partners. Bringing 30 years of industry leadership and executive management experience to his role with the company, Rob provides vision, direction, and strategy — continuing to develop a firm and business model centered around clients unique needs. Throughout his career, Rob has built a reputation for integrating non-industry client services within traditional financial and lifestyle advice to create an innovative and client-centric business model.

With a focus on driving a Personal Office® experience for every client, Rob continues to build a growing company that serves an exceptional client list of investors, entrepreneurs, athletes, Fortune 500 corporate executives, and multigenerational families from around the world.

Rob graduated from Bemidji State University in 1993, earning his bachelor’s degree in business administration. He proudly serves on the boards of Foundation X, Ashby Legacy Fund, Arrow Giving Foundation, and the Star Tribune Pension Board. He is passionate about giving back by serving communities, empowering people, and supporting organizations that help others reach their full potential.

Rob and his wife, Lucinda, live in the North Loop neighborhood of Minneapolis, Minnesota. They enjoy traveling with their son, Brady, and daughter-in-law, Tracy, and spending time with family and friends.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Ed Friedman, Director of Business Development and Growth at Summit FinancialOverviewThe Director of Business Development and Growth, Ed Friedman, shares the secret sauce driving Summit’s growth surge. It’s a perspective on the evolved independent space, with actionable advice on culture, outsourcing, the value of minority investors, and other essential insights for advisors and business owners.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Many advisors still consider independence to be a “new” model, yet they’re decades off the mark.

Independence has gained incredible steam recently, catalyzed by a continually growing ecosystem born to support breakaway advisors, making the leap much less difficult and far more attractive.

While we often share the narratives of the advisors who made the leap to independence, many of their stories offer a perspective on a business less than a decade old.

But this story is different because Summit Financial is an independent firm that launched in 1982. With decades under its belt, the firm has demonstrated that independence is the real deal, with the staying power to thrive in an industry that notoriously lacks stability and continuity.

And what’s of greater significance is the fact that they’ve continued to innovate and grow—proven by the firm’s 3X rise to $10B in assets in the last 4 years.

So, what’s behind this tremendous growth? And what does the future hold for Summit Financial?

Ed Friedman, the Director of Business Development and Growth at Summit, joins the episode to answer that and more.

Ed is best positioned to offer a glimpse into the firm’s secret sauce to success. He’s charged with winning over advisors who have their sights set on greater freedom and flexibility, but aren’t interested in building their own independent firm.

In the episode with Louis Diamond, Ed offers a unique point of view on the industry and his own journey, as well as:

• His decades of experience with some of the biggest names in the business: Morgan Stanley, Hightower Advisors, and Dynasty Financial Partners—and how that influences his work with Summit today.
• The evolution of independent models—and how Summit’s trajectory has changed over the years.
• The value of a culture driven by advisors—and how that creates a differentiator between Summit and other supported independence models.
• The keys to Summit’s extraordinary growth—and what made the last few years some of the most successful in the firm’s history.

Plus, Ed shares actionable advice on growth, outsourcing, the value of minority investors, and more—with essential insights for advisors and business owners alike.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesWhat Advisors Should Focus on to Maximize the Value of Their Practice: An Investment Banker’s GuidanceDan Seivert of ECHELON Partners offers perspective to help advisors better understand their business’s value drivers and how to maximize each, even if you aren’t interested in going independent or selling your business.

Assessing the Gap Between Where You Are and Where You Want to BeA four-step process for financial advisors who are feeling the “pain of incongruence.”

Diamond Consultants 2023 Advisor Transition ReportAn Update on Advisor Movement in the Wealth Management Industry.

Ed Friedman
Director of Growth and Business Development

Ed Friedman is the Director of Business Development and Growth at Summit Financial LLC. Ed is a financial services industry veteran with decades of experience in advancing advisor’s practices and supporting their growth. Prior to Summit, Ed Friedman ran his own consulting business, providing consulting services including operational, business, growth and technology strategies to Independent Wealth Management firms and the strategic vendors that support them. At Dynasty Financial Partners, Ed was the National Director of Practice Management and former Director of the Enterprise Group with a focus on wealth management firms in excess of $1 Billion in assets. Ed was also part of the founding management team at HighTower Advisors heading up business development and advisor development. Before the launch of HighTower, Ed had a 22-year career at Morgan Stanley and its predecessor firm with roles as a financial Advisor, branch manager and senior executive management. Ed is a graduate of Rutgers University with a BA in Business and Finance.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Matt Baum, Partner, Fox RothschildOverviewAttorney Matt Baum breaks down the facts on the latest FTC Noncompete Rule, the potential impact on an advisor’s business, current agreements, the ability to transition, and more.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…On April 23, 2024, the Federal Trade Commission announced a comprehensive “Noncompete Rule,” banning non-competes for “all workers, even senior executives,” as stated on their website.

It’s a hot topic amongst advisors, who are curious about how this ruling might impact their businesses, current agreements, and, ultimately, their ability to transition.

As advisor advocates, Diamond Consultants applauds any action that enables advisors to choose the best firm for their clients and business—without limitation or threat of litigation.

However, as it stands now, we aren’t convinced this new rule will significantly impact an advisor’s business life.

And, as with any new ruling, it begs more examination, particularly as it relates to those in the wealth management industry.

So, we asked attorney Matt Baum to join Louis Diamond on this special episode. Matt is a partner at the law firm Fox Rothschild and specializes in the financial services industry.

In this episode, Matt breaks down the facts around the current FTC ruling and offers his thoughts on the most common concerns we’re hearing from advisors, including:

1. When this rule will go into effect and the impact on existing agreements.
2. Whether certain elements of an advisor’s current employment agreement may ultimately be non-enforceable.
3. How this might impact non-solicit agreements.
4. What this might mean for garden leave provisions.
5. The impact on business owners.
6. And, most importantly, what advisors need to do to protect their business and livelihood.

As firms continue to find new ways to stave off attrition, topics like this are critical to the employee advisors who are most impacted by regulatory changes. Likewise, business owners need to understand their responsibilities when it comes to provisions that may affect their practices.

While not intended to replace the advice of counsel, this episode seeks to break down the facts and provide general guidance on an evolving topic.

Want to learn more about where, why, and how advisors like you are moving? Click to contact us or call 908-879-1002.

Related ResourcesThe 7 Unintended Consequences of Staying the CourseWhile it may seem “safer” to stay put, there are risks in doing so that many advisors are unaware of.

Retire-in-Place Programs: Are They All They’re Cracked Up to Be?5 reasons why advisors are forgoing what was designed to be a no-brainer deal.

Diamond Consultants 2023 Advisor Transition ReportAn Update on Advisor Movement in the Wealth Management Industry.

Matthew B. Baum
Partner

Matt represents financial industry participants, including broker-dealers, financial advisers and RIA firms as well as businesses and individuals in litigation and arbitrations.

Matt has represented multiple Fortune 500 financial institutions, in addition to many small and middle market firms. He has also served as counsel to more than 150 financial advisers throughout his career. Matt appears on behalf of clients in arbitrations (including FINRA and AAA) and in state and federal courts. Among other things, Matt has represented clients in 100+ FINRA arbitrations, including both industry and customer disputes.

He also frequently advises broker-dealers, RIA firms and financial advisers in connection with transitions and recruiting matters. Matt serves as a go-to resource for multiple broker-dealers for transition and recruiting-related matters. He also is consulted as an outside general counsel for multiple RIA firms.

Prior to joining Fox Rothschild, Matt was a partner of a Manhattan based mid-sized law firm. Before that, he practiced at a securities law boutique located on Wall Street.

Matt was a John Harlan Marshall Scholar at New York Law School. There, he also served as Coordinating Notes Editor of the New York Law School Law Review.

Also available on your favorite podcast app and other media sites.

View Details

With Angie Ostendarp & Jordan Raniszeski, Senior Managing Partners, Carnegie Private WealthOverviewIn building a $1B business at Wells, Angie Ostendarp and Jordan Raniszeski realized they had outgrown the model, which limited their ability to serve their clients and continue their growth trajectory. They share why supported independence was the right fit and how it’s changed their path toward the future.

Listen in…> Download a transcript of this episode…

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation.

About this episode…Why do advisors pursue change?

It often comes down to this statement: “We weren’t able to ‘blank’.”

And for many, that blank is filled in with statements like:

• Serve clients without limitation.
• Build a brand, or market freely to clients and prospects.
• Access a stronger platform or better tech.
• Own the equity and build enterprise value.

And for some advisors, it may be several of the above—and then some.

For example, Angie Ostendarp and Jordan Raniszeski joined forces at Wells Fargo in 2008 and, along with Mary Ware, built a strong practice managing over $1B.

But things were changing at the firm, and the limitations multiplied. Over time, it became more difficult to do what was most important to them: That is, to serve their clients.

Ultimately, in March of 2023, Angie and Jordan’s due diligence journey landed them at LPL’s Strategic Wealth Services, along with Mary and two other Wells Fargo advisors, Mitch Mayfield and Jeff Vandiver with a total of $1.45B under management. Carnegie Private Wealth would become the largest team to join the once nascent LPL model.

On the supported independence platform, the team was able to create a firm that would answer all their clients’ needs without the heavy lift of building it from scratch.

Angie and Jordan join Louis Diamond to share their journey from Wells to independence, including:

• Building an incredible business at Wells—and how they did so despite limitations they later experienced.
• Their motivations around change—and how they were running from the model and not the firm.
• The feeling of having “outgrown the channel”—and why they felt like they were “no longer in the right place.”
• Their perspective on business ownership—and how that’s impacted their lives.
• The value of education—and how a deep understanding of their options made the decision process less complex.