20% - The Marketing Procurement Podcast: Recent Episodes

Blair Enns and Leah Power

In each episode a guest brings their marketing, procurement or agency perspective to bear on how these three parties sell to, buy from and work with each other, with Blair and Leah trying to get an answer to the question: "How do you 'procure' creativity without killing it?"

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That's a wrap! We'll be back in Q2 of 2024 with a new season. If you have suggestions on a specific topic that you think we should explore or recomendations on guests, let us know:

  • Blair's Linkedin
  • Leah's Linkedin

Catch up on our first season at 20percent.com or via your prefered podcast platform. Our music is composed by the talented Tim Lauer.

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The Business Model Company cofounder Caroline Johnson is 20%’s first return guest and in this episode Caroline, Blair and Leah pick up where they left off in their last conversation on business model innovation among agencies. This time they view it from the client’s perspective, exploring why agency innovation is vital for clients and for the future of marketing services itself.

  • Win Without Pitching
  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • Leah's Linkedin
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • The Business Model Company
  • Caroline’s Linkedin
  • WFA & MediaSense Future of Media Agency Models Report
  • Quantifying The Value of Pricing

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Brett Colbert is known for pulling no punches. In this episode he brings his direct and provocative point of view—from both sides of the procurement table—to bear on the state of marketing procurement today. Nobody in the marketing/procurement/agency triumvirate gets off easy in this episode. Grab some popcorn and settle in.

  • Win Without Pitching
  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • Leah's Linkedin
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • Brett’s company: Culture key
  • Brett’s Linkedin

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In this episode we up the creative content by talking to veteran creative director George Tannenbaum about the changing nature of the advertising industry, the deification of data and why he thinks procurement deserves to win in their negotiating battles with agencies.

  • Win Without Pitching
  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • Leah's Linkedin
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • George’s blog: Ad Aged
  • GeorgeCo
  • George’s work site
  • George’s Linkedin
  • Rory Sutherland’s book: Alchemy
  • Blair's Innoficiency Problem article
Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life

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20% welcomes its first client/agency team in the form of Kruger Products CMO Susan Irving and Broken Heart Love Affair co-founder Beverley Hammond. Together they discuss the trust and risk required to get to Kruger’s needle-moving and award winning campaign Unapologetically Human.

  • Win Without Pitching
  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • Leah's Linkedin
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • Broken Heart Love Affair
  • Beverley's Linkedin
  • Kruger Products
  • Susan’s Linkedin
  • Unapologetically Human

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The Business Model Company cofounder Caroline Johnson joins the pod to discuss how agencies are evolving away from legacy business models to a variety of new models that drive better commercial success for the agency and greater value creation for clients.

  • Win Without Pitching
  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • Leah's Linkedin
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • The Business Model Company
  • Caroline’s Linkedin
  • Madison Avenue Makeover
  • Forrester’s “Ditch The Pitch” Research Report
None

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Consultant David Meikle joins the pod to discuss—and listen to Blair and Leah rave about—his new book Tuning Up: Improving Performance and Reducing Stress in Advertising and Marketing..”

  • Win Without Pitching
  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • Leah's Linkedin
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • David's website
  • David’s Linkedin
  • David’s Twitter
  • Tuning Up Website
  • Tuning Up Diagnostic
  • Tuning Up e-book
  • Tuning Up Hardcover
  • David’s first book: How to Buy a Gorilla

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Niki McMorrough has seen the client-agency relationship from both sides of the table and that perspective has left her convinced that no one wins in a pitch. She joins Blair and Leah to discuss her conversion from pitch advocate to pitch abstinence.

  • Win Without Pitching
  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • Leah's Linkedin
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • Niki’s website
  • Niki’s Linkedin
  • The Drum Network
  • The Drum Open Mic
  • The Drum’s Recommended Agencies

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Blair and Leah are concluding their brief summer hiatus, back in the studio this week, preparing to bring you a brand new interview in two weeks time.

Until then, Blair has shamelessly selected another episode of his other podcast, 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship, which he cohosts with David C. Baker. In this episode from 2021, David interviews Blair about his Amazon #1 best-selling book, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, ten years after its launch.

  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • Win Without Pitching
  • Leah's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • David C. Baker
  • 2Bobs
  • The Win Without Pitching Manifesto

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Madison Avenue Manslaughter author, agency advisor and former BCG and Bain consultant Michael Farmer joins the pod to discuss his brand new book, Madison Avenue Makeover: The Transformation of HUGE and the Redefinition of the Ad Agency Business.

  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • Win Without Pitching
  • Leah's Linkedin
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • Michael's Linkedin
  • Farmer & Company
  • Madison Avenue Makeover
  • Madison Avenue Manslaughter
  • The Structure of Scientific Revolutions
Madison Avenue Manslaughter: An Inside View of Fee-Cutting Clients, Profit-Hungry Owners and Declining Ad Agencies
The Structure of Scientific Revolutions: 50th Anniversary Edition
None

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While Blair and Leah take a brief summer hiatus, we're delighted to bring you an episode of Blair's other podcast, 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship. In this episode, Blair and his co-host David C. Baker talk about Blair's Innoficiency Principle as it applies to running an agency.

  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • Win Without Pitching
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • Leah's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • David C. Baker
  • 2Bobs
  • The Innoficiency Problem

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Leah has a bee in her bonnet over how agency benchmark data is used by clients and even some agency associations. Jason Cammorata joins the pod to steelman both sides of the argument.

  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • Win Without Pitching
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • Leah's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • Jason's Linkedin
  • The End of Average

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Former big brand marketer Christy Lebor joins the pod to describe what she sees as the pivotal moment when CPG companies shifted from innovation-seeking to efficiency-seeking. She also talks about the folly of zero-based budgeting and why agencies will never be strategic partners to their brand manager clients.

  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • Win Without Pitching
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • Leah's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • Christy's Linkedin
  • Smashbrand

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Consultant and former Nike procurement manager Stuart Dunk joins Blair and Leah to talk about his vision for how the marketing procurement function should evolve, how agencies should push back on onerous demands, the surprise highlight of a marketing procurement professional’s week and much more. * Blair's Twitter * Blair's Linkedin * Win Without Pitching * The ICA's Linkedin * Leah's Linkedin * The ICA * Stuart's Linkedin * Stuart's Twitter * Don't Forget To Look * Project Spring report * Why We Suck at Negotiating

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Rory Sutherland, Ogilvy UK Vice Chair and best-selling author of Alchemy, joins the pod to discuss the costs borne by marketer and agency in the shift away from relational capitalism, toward measurement and efficiency. * Blair's Twitter * Blair's Linkedin * Win Without Pitching * The ICA's Linkedin * Leah's Linkedin * The ICA * Rory's Linkedin * Rory's Twitter * Ogilvy * Alchemy * NudgeStock * MIPTV * Alchemy of Effectiveness

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Marketing procurement podcast streams cross when OG Magid Souhami joins Blair and Leah to discuss all things marketing procurement, including the launch of his new training platform.

  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • Win Without Pitching
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • Leah's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • Magid's Linkedin
  • The Marketing Procurement Academy
  • The OG Marketing Procurement Podcast
  • Compliant Global
  • Extinction or Revolution of Marketing Procurement?

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Consultant and procurement veteran J. Francisco Escobar joins the pod to discuss revenue neutrality, the deleterious effects of protracted payment terms and his taxonomy of the various types of procurement professionals.

  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • Win Without Pitching
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • Leah's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • Francisco's Linkedin
  • jfeintl
  • Expert tips for value-based procurement in marketing
  • Getting More - Stuart Diamond
  • Never Split The Difference - Chris Voss
  • The Unsold Mindset - Colin Coggins, Garrett Brown

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Aprais founder Kim Walker joins the pod to discuss their new research findings that proves what we all know: better client/agency relationships lead to better work—and results.

  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • Win Without Pitching
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • Leah's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • Kim's Linkedin
  • Aprais' Linkedin
  • Aprais' Website
  • Happiness - a new business imperative
  • The Challenger Sale
  • Aprais Effectiveness Report

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Agency pricing consultant Tim Williams discusses the trend he sees of agencies moving away from selling inputs (time), toward a greater focus on outputs and outcome-based pricing models.

  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • Win Without Pitching
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • Leah's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • Ignition Consulting Group
  • Tim's Linkedin
  • Tim's Twitter
  • Time's Up! - Ron Baker

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Leo Rayman went from CEO of agency Grey in London to the first CEO of Grey Consulting. In this far reaching conversation with Blair and Leah, Leo talks about the differences in impact and pricing power that separates these two business types, while also hitting on the similarities that tend to go unnoticed.

  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • Win Without Pitching
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • The green growth accelerator, EdenLab
  • Leo's Linkedin

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As the client, you have the right to receive unbiased recommendations; you have the right to ask questions; you have the right to transparency on fees. Jillian Gibbs of APR joins 20% to lay bare her client bill of rights and much more.

  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • Win Without Pitching
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • Jillian's Linkedin
  • Advertising Production Resources
  • APR's Linkedin

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Tom Lewis joins the podcast to talk about Adland, a sector he sees as existing in a state of managed decline. Tom attributes this decline to a failure in agency ownership models and offers the advice: “get out as quickly as you can.”

  • Blair's Twitter
  • Blair's Linkedin
  • Win Without Pitching
  • The ICA's Linkedin
  • The ICA
  • Tom's Linkedin
  • Tom's Twitter
  • You Don't Really Partner With Your Clients
  • The Institute of Practitioners in Advertising
  • Effie Canada 2022 Show Notes

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Agency Agile founder Jack Skeels drops by the pod to talk about agency culture, agency searches and his time as a consultant working to find procurement efficiencies for the US government. Blair Enns https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ https://twitter.com/blairenns https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns Leah Power https://theica.ca/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies Jack Skeels https://agencyagile.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/agencyagile/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackaskeels/ Your Client Problems Start With You https://agencyagile.com/your-client-problems-start-with-you/ Averting the Coming Tragedy in Agency Procurement https://agencyagile.com/averting-the-coming-tragedy-in-agency-procurement/ World’s Worst RFP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB-KUB35_CM This Consultancy Redefined the RFP Process https://www.adweek.com/agencies/this-consultancy-redefined-the-rfp-process/

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Marketing industry veteran Kathryn Fitzwilliam joins the podcast to advocate for better agency/client relationships, and makes the case for marketers to strive to be their agency’s favorite client. Blair Enns

https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/

https://twitter.com/blairenns

https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns Leah Power

https://theica.ca/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies Kathryn Fitzwilliam https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathryn-fitzwilliam http://kfitzwilliamconsulting.ca/ https://aprais.com/ Qualifications Based Selection (QBS) https://qbscanada.ca/ https://youtu.be/8nmUh2orS5g

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Julie Cohen, Founder and CEO of Across The Pond, joins Blair and Leah to discuss the negative impacts of pitching. Blair Enns

https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/

https://twitter.com/blairenns

https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns Leah Power

https://theica.ca/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies Julie Cohenhttps://acrossthepond.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/across-the-pond/ Don’t Pitch Your Mental Health

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dont-pitch-your-mental-health-jim-de-zoete/ You Don’t Really Partner With Your Clients

https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/you-dont-really-partner-with-your-clients/

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Blair and Leah are joined by Mike Sutton, President of Zulu Alpha Kilo an award-winning independent agency famous for their viral videos mocking spec creative and RFP-driven selection processes.

Blair Enns

https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/

https://twitter.com/blairenns

https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns

Leah Power

https://theica.ca/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies

https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/

Mike Suttonwww.zulualphakilo.com

https://www.linkedin.com/company/zulu-alpha-kilo-inc./ https://www.youtube.com/@zulualphakilo/videos

Say No To Spec

https://youtu.be/essNmNOrQto

World’s Worst RFP

https://youtu.be/WB-KUB35_CM Left-Handed Mango Chutneyhttps://youtu.be/3VwxkfTLPSs Winston’s Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/sup_its_winston/

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Piscari’s Mike Lander models the conversations agencies and procurement should be having but rarely do.

Blair Enns

https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/

https://twitter.com/blairenns

https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns

Leah Power

https://theica.ca/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies

https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/

Mike Lander

https://piscari.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikelander/

Hear more from Mike on his podcast “It’s a Good Start”

https://www.pantheon.fm/show/its-a-good-start-podcast/

Project Spring Report

​​https://wfanet.org/leadership/project-spring

The Win Without Pitching Manifesto
https://www.amazon.com/win-without-pitching-manifesto/s?k=win+without+pitching+manifesto

Are RFPs The Spawn of Satan?
https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/are-rfps-the-spawn-of-satan/

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Kathie Jones joins the podcast to discuss lessons learned from selling to procurement years ago up to running procurement today.

Blair Enns

https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/

https://twitter.com/blairenns

https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns

Leah Power

https://theica.ca/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies

https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/

Kathie Jones

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathieconway148/

https://khoros.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/khoros/

Pricing Creativity

https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/pricing-creativity/

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Should you participate in that RFP? Is that RFP really an RFI in disguise? Enrique Cordero joins the podcast to answer those questions and much more.

Blair Enns

https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/

https://twitter.com/blairenns

https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns

Leah Power

https://theica.ca/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies

https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/

Enrique Cordero

https://www.linkedin.com/in/enriquecordero/

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Mary Ann Brennan joins Blair and Leah to discuss the transformed procurement professional and the journey from cost saver to value creator.

Blair Enns

https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/

https://twitter.com/blairenns

https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns

Leah Power

https://theica.ca/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies

https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/

Mary Ann Brennan

https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryabrennan/

ProcureCon Marketing

https://procurecondm.wbresearch.com/

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Hosts Leah Power and Blair Enns welcome their first guest to the podcast, John Gleason. John shares his views on the procurement/agency relationship and lays out the same 8 claims almost every agency makes.

Blair Enns

https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/

https://twitter.com/blairenns

https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns

Leah Power

https://theica.ca/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies

https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/

John Gleason

https://www.linkedin.com/in/johngleason

You Don't Really Partner With Your Clients

https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/you-dont-really-partner-with-your-clients/

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Blair puts forward his Innoficiency Principle—the idea that innovation and efficiency are mutually opposable goals—and discusses why the “Marketing Procurement Problem” can be explained by this principle.

Blair Enns

https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/

https://twitter.com/blairenns

https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns

Leah Power

https://theica.ca/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies

https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/

The Innoficiency Problem

https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/the-innoficiency-problem/

Buying Less for Less: How to avoid the Marketing Procurement Dilemma by Gerry Preece & Russel Wohlwerth
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/19660676-buying-less-for-less

Holding Opposite Perspectives In a Healthy Tension

https://2bobs.com/podcast/holding-opposite-perspectives-in-a-healthy-tension

Nick Skillicorn

https://www.ideatovalue.com/author/nickskillicorn/

Clayton Christensen

https://www.christenseninstitute.org/disruptive-innovations/

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Hosts Blair Enns and Leah Power discuss the “Marketing Procurement Problem” and lay out their hopes and intentions for the conversations to follow.

Note: The ICA changed its name to the Institute of Canadian Agencies after the recording of this episode.

Blair Enns

https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/

https://twitter.com/blairenns

https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns

Leah Power

https://theica.ca/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies

https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/