Climbing China Beach: a podcast series about one route

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We've wanted to have Joe on the podcast since we first had the idea, and he did not disappoint - alternate beta, training advice, surprising histories of routes, and hot takes on grades.

We really got a feel for the vibe and community at Rumney when Joe was a young climber, and we all reflected together on what makes New England special.

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Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chinabeachpodcast/

ABOUT THE PODCASTWe’ve had a decade-plus obsession with China Beach - a 5.14b in Rumney and possibly the best route in the world. This podcast series is about that route - what makes it unique and special. Video episodes on YouTube and Spotify. Hosted by Rajiv Ayyangar and Michael Penn.

0:00 Start

1:51 Intro

3:18 Niche climbing culture

4:53 Introductions

13:02 Missing fall in New England

15:31 Vivid first impressions of China Beach

19:16 Ward, Dan Nguyen, grading history

22:36 Joe's energy for route development

25:21 Team tough mentoring the next generation

29:00 Cold War was a different route

37:36 The Waimea scene back then

41:33 New England Climbing Culture is special

47:47 Conditions and mindset

50:32 Projecting China Beach

57:49 Projecting - specific sections

1:00:31 Projecting - dealing with fear

1:03:49 Andrew Palmer - how much has the beta changed?

1:04:24 Joe's alternate sequence at the T in Uncommon Ground

1:06:56 Q: Kara Norton: Joe's favorite hold?

1:11:36 Nina Williams' send and video

1:13:48 Where did Joe fall a lot when redpointing?

1:15:16 How good is China Beach?

1:18:37 Joe Coaches Rajiv

1:28:37 Joe coaches Michael for Bad Girls Club

1:30:07 30-30 - Joe's favorite interval endurance training

1:38:45 China Beach vs. Livin Astro

1:42:14 Joe's style as a developer vs. China/Astro

1:45:17 Q: Ryan Leventhal: Livin' Astroglide or Southern Smoke?

1:46:09 Flatanger vs. Waimea

1:47:54 Shagg Crag

1:48:54 Farley

1:50:19 Northeast climbing spots

1:52:52 New beta on Bad Girls Club

1:55:45 Grades and new beta

2:01:11 Rumney grades

2:02:19 No Shit

2:04:14 Parallel Universe

2:08:36 Emotional relationship with China Beach

2:11:38 Our relationship with climbs and climbing

2:18:22 Dave Graham

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In this impromptu episode, I talk with Ward Smith, the author of the Rumney guidebook. Ward put up iconic routes like Predator 13b, Feeding Frenzy 13c/d, and Parallel Universe 14a.

He shared stories from the early days of Rumney, how he approached training, and his take on what makes China Beach special.

It was a free-form conversation, so check out the timestamps in the description to jump to specific topics, but I'd really encourage you to listen to the whole episode. You’ll get a picture of Ward, the climber and person. He was ahead of his time - putting up 5.14 first ascents in the '90s!

This should be an exciting Spring season at Waimea! Follow @chinabeachpodcast on Instagram for updates.

ABOUT THE PODCAST

We’ve had a decade-plus obsession with China Beach 5.14b - possibly the best route in the world. This podcast series is about that route - what makes it unique and special. Video episodes on YouTube and Spotify. Hosted by Rajiv Ayyangar and Michael Penn.

TOPICS

00:00 start

01:38 intros

03:09 podcasts Ward likes

05:18 keto and intermittent fasting

07:08 Rajiv's story

10:30 Ward's early climbing at Rumney

11:50 working on Barracuda 13d

16:54 Getting on China Beach

17:47 Reinforcing key holds

20:32 Why is CB so hard?

21:36 Giving up CB to Dave Graham

24:17 How close did Ward get?

25:53 How did Ward climb so hard?

29:22 Parallel Universe 14a

32:43 Reflections on training

35:52 Digression: John Mallery and Dave, Joe, and Luke

39:18 "I knew my time was limited" - Feeding Frenzy 13d

41:12 Open projects at Rumney

43:14 What makes China Beach so good?

46:52 Will there be a round 2?

51:42 Ward's current training and the Kilter Board

55:55 Surprised more pros haven't done CB

01:00:54 What's Ward's height and ape index?

01:04:15 Nina Williams' beta

01:06:32 Who else should we have on the Podcast?

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Kara Norton is a software engineer and former routesetter living in Brooklyn, NY. I had the pleasure of projecting China Beach with her in October, and she made super rapid progress, in particular on the top boulder problem. Kara shares her thoughts as a setter on what makes China Beach great, and we nerd out on the simulators that each of us set. We also circle back at the end to think about what people would say if China Beach were actually scanned and set in a gym.

Along the way, we hear about the first time she saw China Beach, and it really gets to the heart of why I love doing this podcast. Focusing on this one route can give us a lens to examine what we love about climbing, in its most essential form.

There’s footage of her on the route and on her simulator, which you can see if you're watching on Spotify or YouTube.

ABOUT THE PODCAST

We’ve had a decade-plus obsession with China Beach - a 5.14b in Rumney and possibly the best route in the world. This podcast series is about that route - what makes it unique and special. Video episodes on YouTube and Spotify. Hosted by Rajiv Ayyangar and Michael Penn.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/66l7lJsbyteIAND8oL3t1C?si=fa92dc77a9534dce

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@chinabeachpodcast

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/climbing-china-beach-a-podcast-series-about-one-route/id1654201582

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Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chinabeachpodcast/

TOPICS

0:00 - Intro

1:23 - Going from route-setter to software engineer

4:09 - How did Kara get into route-setting and what does she like about it?

14:48 - Kara's local gym, GP81, and why it's awesome

20:34 - Q from Mia: What was it like the first time Kara saw China Beach?

29:41 - Which hold on China Beach is Kara 'friends' with?

33:54 - Video of Kara on the top section + new beta?

41:05 - Kara’s thoughts as a setter on what makes China Beach so good?

46:28 - What did people in the gym think of the top boulder problem?

48:52 - Kara's thoughts on Rajiv's Kilter simulators

55:44 - Kara's simulator of the bottom (w/ video)

1:03:45 - Projecting status - what’s next?

1:09:32 - Q from Suzie: How does Kara balance marathon training with climbing?

1:14:53 - Q from Mia on climbing culture / what CB represents to Kara

1:20:34 - What if the whole route was 3D scanned and set in a gym?

LINKS

GP81: https://www.gp-81.com/

Rajiv's Kilter simulators of China Beach:

v1: https://kilterboardapp.com/climbs/E5A60F279E4849CEADA59238769CEC81

v2 (harder):

https://kilterboardapp.com/climbs/F86ED69640C04173822686E201569215

Kaya: https://kayaclimb.com/

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Nina Williams is a professional climber and mindset coach known for her iconic highball ascents of Ambrosia and Too Big to Flail, as well as multiple V13s. We talked about her recent trip to Rumney with Rajiv, getting super into sport climbing, her “Iron Rose” beta break (with video walkthrough), why she doesn’t climb faster, and how she approaches climbing just for herself despite career pressures.

ABOUT THE PODCAST

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/66l7lJsbyteIAND8oL3t1C

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg-qNvftQ61mrvHdHrBueeg

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/climbing-china-beach-a-podcast-series-about-one-route/id1654201582

FOLLOW FOR CLIPS AND UPDATES

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chinabeachpodcast/

CLIMBERS MENTIONED

Dan Beall (Rajiv’s coach), Brian Kim, Alex Waterhouse, Charlotte Durif, Lizzie Asher, Mike Patz, Josh Levin, Kara Norton, Adriana Jacobson, Dana Seaton (Nina’s former coach), Amity Warme, Dan Nguyen (FA to the break), John Mallery, Jon Brock, Daryl St. Laurent, Dave Graham

ROUTES MENTIONED

Techno(surfing) 12b • Zulu 14a • Simply Read 13d • Sarchasm 14a • Butt Bongo Fiesta 13a • Thunder Muscle 13d • I Am The Walrus 14a • Call Me Daddy 14a

LINKS

Will Gadd: “Training for Climbing Isn’t as Hard as You Think”: https://www.climbing.com/skills/how-to-effectively-train-for-climbing/

NINA WILLIAMS

Follow Nina on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sheneenagins

Nina's sponsors: The North Face • Scarpa • Organic • Black Diamond • Gnarly Nutrition

Music: ‘Mt. Washington’ by YBalloon

TOPICS

0:00 - Intro

8:19 - Growing up around CB in New England

12:10 - Switch to sport climbing / last yr’s Rumney trip

14:43 - "Iron Rose" beta break: video walkthrough

24:41 - Why doesn't Nina climb faster?

31:28 - The magic of climbing outside as much as possible

36:49 - How to climb just for yourself (esp. as a pro)

48:07 - Beta as a library of sensations

53:45 - Climbing Sarchasm (5.14 at 13,000 ft)

56:56 - Her first 5.13 at Waimea (and a twist!)

59:59 - Upcoming climbing and China Beach this Spring

1:03:32 - CB and the podcast as a micro-community

1:05:30 - Parting thoughts

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Rajiv just got back from a pretty epic trip to Rumney, with the singular goal of working China Beach. Let's hear how it went! Also: - Dan Nguyen (first ascent to the break) shares the history of the name China Beach - Video analysis of Rajiv’s progress - Nina’s insane “Iron Rose” beta in place of the iron cross - China Beach TV show live reaction

Rajiv's Beta Note: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s22/sh/50d61439-2172-8f78-0632-4d9232612c8d/54bef70468c149fb926d0028de87e83e

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In this episode, we talk to Andrew Palmer, one of the strongest weekend warriors in the Northeast, known for the 4th ascent of Jaws II (5.15a). We dive into his obsession with China Beach, and he shares lots of wonderful stories along the way. We also talk about how climbing intertwined with his life and kids, what he went on to do after China Beach, and how he finally found a fitting book-end to his climbing career.

About the podcast We’ve had a decade-plus obsession with China Beach 5.14b - possibly the best route in the world. This podcast series is about that route - what makes it unique and special. Hosted by Rajiv Ayyangar and Michael Penn. @chinabeachpodcast on Instagram

Timestamps INTRO 2:14 - Does it suck to be Alex Megos? 3:44 - Climbing with Dave Graham and others at the Nor’Easter

OBSESSION 9:52 - Andrew expected CB to be a book-end, but it wasn’t. 16:33 - Other routes built confidence. 21:07 - CB was all he cared about 23:16 - Growing up climbing in Richmond 25:52 - The impact of seeing Waimea 29:22 - Dartmouth, but mostly climbing 31:49 - Training, sort of 39:17 - Justen Sjong’s coaching, the World Cup 42:16 - Jakob Schubert’s entourage 44:33 - 5.14’s at the New 46:24 - Unbelievably fit while working Livin’ Astro

TURNING THE PAGE 48:46 - Notable Waimea climbs post-CB and having kids 51:14 - Why was CB so all-consuming vs. harder routes? 53:53 - The Fly vs. Jaws II 1:00:26 - Jaws didn’t feel 5.15a?!

CLOSING THOUGHTS 1:06:14 - The OG gang (Dave, Joe, Luke)

Routes mentioned

RUMNEY China Beach (5.14b) Livin Astro (5.14c) Jaws II (5.15a) - Andrew Palmer’s video: https://vimeo.com/77539725 China Glide 2014 (5.14d) The Fly (5.14d)

NEW RIVER GORGE Proper Soul (5.14a) Still Life (5.14b) Mango Tango (5.14a) Trebuchet (5.14b)

PAWTUCKAWAY Child of the Storm (V13)

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In this episode, we talk to Matty Zane, a friend and longtime northeast climber. We talk about how he didn't think of himself as an athlete for a long time, and how working on china beach changed how he thought of himself. We talk about how he started taking training, projecting, and tactics seriously, and we get into some of the specific tactics he found. We also talk about the power of having a good crew, and how that really changed things for him on China Beach. Working on routes and talking about routes with friends is one of the things we love most about climbing. The people we climb with motivate us, help us get better, help us grow. And New England is a special community—Rumney has a long history of strong crews pushing standards, from Team Tough in the 90s, to Dave Graham, Luke Parady, and Joe Kinder in the 2000s. Plus…there’s new beta! A hold we didn’t even know existed!

Timestamps 2:39 - Climbers vs. sports fans and climbers as athletes 4:56 - First heard about China Beach from Brian Kim, as a young climber in Maine 10:49 - Checking all the boxes as a sport climb 13:38 - To top out or not to top out? 17:18 - Matty learned a ton about tactics and training 21:56 - Adopting a more serious mindset 23:48 - The power of a good crew, and how one conversation changed his belief in himself 30:00 - Tactics to manage conditions 34:33 - China Glide and discovering new beta for the top 38:16 - Why most sends are by locals, and the special New England community 42:17 - Looking back, it was such a fun chapter of his life 45:22 - The wobbler and the shoe

Links - Brian Kim on China Beach https://youtu.be/6BWMxpHsrr0 - Mike Foley on Livin’ Astroglide 5.14c/d https://vimeo.com/12375253 - Nick Orange on China Beach https://youtu.be/BoKwOYvBVas - Jonathan Siegrist’s blog: America’s Best 5.14 https://www.jonathansiegrist.com/2013/12/americas-best-514.html

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In this episode, we dive into Michael's send of China Beach. We talk about how he went from climbing 5.12 to feeling ready to try a 14b. Then we switch gears and break down the route, with video, to really give you a feel for what it's like to climb on it. We talk about how Michael got really into training, and what a typical week looked like. We talk about how he refined his beta for the route. Michael has the most efficient beta I've ever seen on China Beach, and I've seen almost every video out there, and many world-class climbers in-person. It's cool to see how much he still remembers, over a decade later. Finally we talk about what it felt like to send, and we attempt to unpack what makes a hard project the right level of hard. Timestamps to each section are in the description, along with links to the video clips. By the end of this, I was even more psyched to get back on China Beach, and I hope you are as well. About the podcast We’ve had a decade-plus obsession with China Beach 5.14b - possibly the best route in the world. This podcast series is about that route - what makes it unique and special. Hosted by Rajiv Ayyangar and Michael Penn. @chinabeachpodcast on Instagram

Timestamps MICHAEL 2:30 - 3 things to know about Michael 5:43 - How he got psyched on China Beach when climbing 5.12 12:23 - Background as an elite athlete

ROUTE WALKTHROUGH 16:22 - What it’s like to climb on China Beach (Brian Kim’s video) 17:27 - Mysterious no-hands rest 20:34 - The lower section 22:59 - “The Move” 25:59 - The crux after the break and heroic upper section 36:16 - Nick Orange’s video - some nice angles 39:50 - Cedric Lachat’s terrible beta 43:51 - Alex Megos makes it look easy

MICHAEL’S PROCESS 46:48 - How did Michael work up to China Beach 53:48 - Getting really into training 01:00:32 - Breakthroughs and setbacks 01:06:09 - Amazing beta (with video) 01:07:25 - The magic flag move

THE SEND AND REFLECTIONS 01:12:59 - Reflecting on the process 01:17:46 - “I’m glad I didn't send faster" 01:19:23 - What makes a project the right level of hard? 01:29:14 - The Send and what happened after

Routes mentioned - Pump-O-Rama 13a (Rifle) - Steelworker 12c (The Red) - The Promise 12c (Rifle) - Pretty Hate Machine 12c (Rifle) - Technosurfing 12b (Rumney) - Things as They Are Now 12a (Rumney) - Jedi Mind Tricks 12b (Rumney) - Big Kahuna 12d/13a (Rumney) - Livin' Astro 14c (Rumney) - Jaws II 15a (Rumney) - Parallel Universe 14a (Rumney) - Supernova 14b (Rumney) - Whiptide 12b (Rumney) - Butt Bongo Fiesta 13a (Rumney) - Suburban 13a (Rumney) - Beat Junkie 13b (Rumney) - Predator 13b (Rumney) - Coral Sea 13b (Rumney) - Cote d'Azure 13b (Rumney) - Urban Surfer 13d (Rumney) - Barracuda 13d (Rumney) - Living in Fear 13d (Rifle)

Videos - Brian Kim https://youtu.be/6BWMxpHsrr0 - Nick Orange https://youtu.be/BoKwOYvBVas - Cedric Lachat (Mammut Teamtrip Rumney) https://youtu.be/woYy9Y8Er4M - Michael Penn https://youtu.be/z8VcOnyFsMg

Links - Rumney, by Ward Smith (2017 guidebook) https://www.rockandsnow.com/91279/rumney/ - Michael’s blog post on sending China Beach: https://www.michael-penn.net/robotclimbing/2010/03/china-beach.html - Michael solving an integral while climbing Pump-O-Rama (13a) https://youtu.be/NgKav5vNSUI - Michael's fingerboarding data around when he sent: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VSMyZmaTGqrpXZ-9yxzkZsh-1pOzyphkcKmf4xQ2s5w/edit#gid=0

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About this Podcast Climbing China Beach is a podcast series all about one route: China Beach, a stunning 5.14b in Rumney, NH. @chinabeachpodcast on Instagram

Episode 1: The Perfect Rock Climb In this first episode we dive into what makes China Beach the perfect rock climb, and how both Michael and I became obsessed with it. We do a breakdown of the route, including the weird and wonderful lower section, and the heroic moves above the break, and attempt to unpack at a philosophical level just what makes a rock climb…good. Michael talks about watching Alex Megos send it, and we also highlight the best videos of the route, so you too can get psyched. Videos and other references are linked in the show description. Show Notes Watch: Films of China Beach Brian Kim

Lower Section (1:31) The Move (2:36) Undercling crux (3:00) Foot Switch (3:17) and failed switch (0:54) Iron Cross move to the sloper with a notch (3:32) Dave Graham in Dosage II (China Beach starts at 2 minutes), or better, rent Dosage II ($4) Uncommon Ground (2002) (sadly unavailable) Michael Penn (Foot up earlier at 1:47, contrast Brian Kim 3:17) Alex Megos Nick Orange

Read:

Description of China Beach on Mountain Project, by Jay Knower Rajiv’s blog post about making progress on China Beach: Why I Climb

Routes mentioned:

China Beach 5.14c Livin’ Astro 5.14c

Michael and Rajiv’s links

Michael’s channel: Michael Penn Math Rajiv: @rajivayyangar on Twitter

Timestamps 1:47 - What makes China Beach the perfect rock climb? 3:25 - The beauty of the rock and Waimea 4:54 - How Michael became obsessed with China Beach 6:44 - Rajiv’s first encounter with Waimea 8:20 - A breakdown of the route 10:25 - The weird and wonderful lower section, and “The Move” 16:26 - What makes the top section so…fun? 19:26 - The undercling crux 22:03 - Alex Megos’s mind-bending send 26:41 - Unique New England challenges

(music: ‘Jobii’ by Dylan Sitts, licensed via Epidemic Sound)

Climbing China Beach: a podcast series about one route: Recent Episodes

Rajiv Ayyangar