Larry Cropp: Recent Episodes
Larry Cropp
Giving resources and encouragement to be completely free to pursue your highest calling.
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This is going to be a rich interview for all “calling-seekers.”
In a recent interview with Darryl Heald and William Norvell, Bertie Lourens unpacks his journey from living from “being the man” in his company to letting the God of abundance direct it all.
Bertie is the Managing Director of Waste Plan Holdings (Pty) Ltd. Waste Plan is a national on-site waste management company with operational companies in Western Cape, Gauteng, KZN and Free State, South Africa, that specialize in recycling and landfill reduction. Their services include on-site sorting and cleaning, waste reduction, electronic monitoring, carbon footprint audits and total greening. Waste Plan collects recyclable waste from nearly 150 000 households in Cape Town and Pretoria while servicing over 100 clients in the industrial, commercial, food and beverage and medical industries. Bertie is also the Chairman of the Central Branch (Gauteng, Mpumalanga, Limpopo, North West and Free State Provinces) of the Institute of Waste Management of Southern Africa and sits on the National board of this Institute.
Enjoy the conversation!
Bertie Lourens: Hello William. Thank you for inviting me,
William Norvell: We're happy to have you. And, you know, as we get started, one of the things we just always love to do is just to hear a little about you, who you are, where you came from, where you grew up, how you ended up becoming a Faith Driven Entrepreneur and you know, how you ended up sitting in that chair today with us telling the story.
BL: Thank you, William. First of all, I'm a son of God, God Almighty, the creator of the universe and everything in it. And I'm married to a beautiful, gentle Canadian lady. And she calls South Africa home for 15 years already and four champion grandkids. But I was really born and raised in a small mining town in the south east of Johannesburg in the 70s. I grew up in the 70s and 80s and that was during apartheid South Africa. It was a very difficult time for South Africa. And everything that we’re facing today is the legacy of apartheid. And a lot of things that we do today is still trying to fix all the wrongs of the past.
So I grew up as a young teenager seeing all these wrongs, and I just thought it might be wise just to give a little bit of context about apartheid and what the past is and was. But it was really a governing system that denied all nonwhite people any decent education, no voting rights and no rights for any managerial jobs. So you can understand what that means over a period of 40, 50 years of a father that needs to work in the best job we can get, as in a mine, as a general worker, in a factory or a construction company and a father teaching his son, this is the best that you can ever be. Just try and be the best general worker that you could ever be. And hopefully you could become the supervisor of general workers. And if you just keep perpetuating that over decades, a whole lot of anger happens, a whole lot of hurt and a narrative of blaming. So that's that's the South Africa that I grew up in.
And I saw how apartheid came to an end. I saw how a new era was born for South Africa, and saw how Nelson Mandela was released from prison and how he was elected as the first democratically elected president. And I started seeing how the entire country started rallying together to try and correct the wrongs of the past. And it's been two decades and we’re still doing that. But it almost feels like we fail every decade. Our failures are bigger than the decade before.
So that's the context where I grew up. And personally, I was a very insecure teenager when I grew up because my father never told me that I had what it's takes. He never told me that he loved me. So I always grew up never knowing what that real lack was that I had inside of me. But I always knew that I just do not feel complete. Of course, I ran to alcohol and women.
I was also a very good salesman when I was in school; I very quickly learned that I could make money. And that's when I realized how money will maybe fill that gap and make me popular among my teenage friends, which I did, of course. (Luckily, I got saved very early in my twenties.) It's just off to the one relational failure of the next. I realized that I just do not have what it takes to keep a life together and a surrender to Jesus at the age of twenty three in the late 90s. And it was wonderful. It almost felt like it was the beginning of a healing journey for me. Shortly after that I found a mentor that saw something in me and decided to help me to build the business because I knew I wanted to be a businessman, because I could sell stuff and I thought if I can sell something, I can build a business. I started a business in 2004 and I am still running that same business.
WN: Well, that's amazing. Thank you for walking us through that. I'm going to ask if you would- would you maybe spend a few more minutes for our listeners. I've read a little bit about Apartheid, but maybe it's been a few more minutes on what it was like growing up? What did you sense in the air? What did you sense was was there and sort of from your perspective, because we have a listening audience as a white man. Right? What did it feel like at school? I’m not even sure I know the right question to ask. But I'm just really curious for I just always learn, obviously, from people in different worldviews, they grew up in different scenarios than me. And I just want to give you kind of an open mic for a couple more minutes to say just kind of what were some of those experiences like for you?
BL: William, you know, when you've become a teenager, when you hit your 10-11-12-13 age, you start asking questions- you know, just things around you, you know, just that there are no black kids in your school. You notice the kids that you play sports against are all white. You'd notice that when you drive out of your town, you drive into a we call them townships, but it's really chanty towns. And you just see black people there. And you see that the people who work in the white people gardens are black people. And you don't see black people driving cars; they're driving bicycles. Their clothes don't look decent. You notice all these things, and then you start asking you questions- you ask your parents these questions. “But why?” You see beggars at the traffic lights are only black people and not white people. And you ask them, “but why? Are beggars only black people?” And then they answer you, but you can see it's almost a governmental-brainwashed answer that does not make sense for a 12-13 year old. And that's when you start realizing: “but hold on, yes, something is wrong with the entire system.” And you listen to adults, the way they talk around the barbecue, around the socials about Them and Us, and you ask yourself, but we are all one, we're all one country wiser, Them and Us. You know, you ask these questions and you get answers that just do not make sense.
And to take it one step further. For most of these answers, there was a biblical scripture to, quote, justify the system of Apartheid and. You see black people doing the hard labor, almost like the Hebrew slaves that supported the infrastructure of Egypt, I saw how the black people, the majority of South Africa was black people, they were building the infrastructure for the minority.
And something inside of me just said that is wrong. It just doesn't make sense. It's not sustainable. And then you start watching news, you start understanding what you hear on the news. You start hearing the conversations in the kitchen and around the dinner table with your parents, really as the tension started building up of the masses of South Africa, just saying enough is enough. We want voting rights. And you start hearing those conversations, the family conversations, the fear. And it's a fear is a massive bloodbath, revolution coming. And we just do not have answers anymore. And I saw all of that and the fear also gripped me.
But then I saw the miracle of a peaceful negotiation between Mandela and the ruling president, F.W. de Klerk, back then, and all of a sudden, very quickly, the tension released and there was an election. All the black people were granted voting rights and the ANC, which is the party that represented them, won, and there was joy and there was fear all at the same time, the wealthy whites that were able to flee, fled- packed up all the goods, and they fled everywhere else in the world because they believe that all the white people in South Africa were going to be murdered. But they believe in communities rejoiced and they sang Hallelujah. And you started hearing these messages of the fearful and the jubilant all more or less in the same space.
And something inside of me said, “that's a miracle, what happened here.” And it really was, looking back now It was a miracle. And very shortly after that, in the 90s, we just had a great leader in Nelson Mandela, who was very verbal in his communication. He understood the fear of the white communities. And he spoke to us on public television, where he made very, very bold statements of how you will protect us. And he made very bold statements to the angry majority-black community in South Africa, saying “we need our brothers, our brothers in our country to help us rebuild this country.” And you just hear that propaganda coming from him and eventually you start believing that this is going to turn out to be something beautiful. And that's why we named it the Rainbow Nation, because we really believed something beautiful that was going to come out of it. And we still hold on to those hopes in those dreams because it's still beautiful, but it just sometimes feels like it's taking too long. But our timing is never the same as God's timing.
WN: Amen, thank you so much for that. Such a beautiful job of taking us into some of those moments. And I just thank you for walking through that for our audience. And I'm interested in how did all of those experiences impact you as an entrepreneur, as someone who was studying what God wanted you to do, right? And what was your part of that story that was being written in South Africa? Where did God find you and push you to an entrepreneurial journey?
BL: So I knew that I wanted to be a businessman for selfish reasons. I wanted to get rich, and that's the end of that story. So I pursued that dream of becoming rich and I could see how this new South Africa attracted so much foreign investment. This was truly the hope for the continent. And we achieved amazing GDP growth. And I just realized I am in this ecosystem that is filled with growth and I have the skills to sell and I want to be a businessman. But as I went on doing this, I noticed that the people that we employ in business are poor and they are, many of them- general workers that work for a very, very low salary. And that started bothering me. Now, the salary we pay is equal to what competitors in the market pay for those laborers. And when we pitch for contracts with clients, a big chunk of our service costs is labor costs. So if we overpay, then we are not competitive and we can grow. So we were forced to pay the same salary,
But we realized we can do much more. So it's just an awareness. It grew over time that while we employ poor people, we have the power of influence over them more than what political leaders have and more than what the church could ever have. Well, they work in our business. We found out that the one that receives a salary submits quite easily to the one who pays the salary. So the one who pays the salary has tremendous influence. And we I thought, “Let us use that and help people learn how to better themselves so that they can build a better future for themselves.” And all of that comes down to education- the way you think, because if you could educate yourself, you acquire more skills or a higher skill, you can bring it to your workplace and get more responsibilities and then the higher salary.
I've personally worked with some of the guys in the early years, and I've seen once they get that, it's almost as if you've put them on a perpetual path out of poverty because he's connected the dots. You said, I see how this thing works. It's not a secret any longer. Bring more value, take more responsibilities and more money and then repeat. And that made me excited that we have this influence that we can help people out of poverty.
WN: Amen. Yeah, you're sharing a gospel. You know, you share in the good news with people that you're holding this good news that they don't know about yet and educating them. What a beautiful reflection of the gospel where God placed you and where he put you. And and what are the unique things I've heard you talk about before that I'd love to have you share with our audiences. You know, you set out to build a business also where God would be a shareholder. And could you tell us a little about what that looks like to you, what that felt like to you as you dug into that and prayed about that? What does it look like to make God a shareholder of WastePlan?
BL: We need to understand how that started. First of all, if you have a really good mentor and he is building a really successful business, all you need to do is just listen to him and do what he tells you. And that's what I did because I didn't know much. And what happens is if you enjoy enough success upon success and if you do not have people around you that are willing to hold up a mirror to you so you can see who you become and you will become proud. And I became very proud, because I enjoyed tremendous success quite quickly and in the first years of the business.
I had to define later on to myself what is pride. Pride to me is the conversation with yourself that says that “I am better than.” And you can fill in the gap there with any name. “I am better than.” And very quickly after that, pride leads to strife or strive. Striving says “I would like to be better than so-and-so.” It's a situation of measuring and seeing that you're better than some, but then coveting the success of others. And that just puts you on the spiral of destruction, which I didn't see. I didn't see it coming, but God did.
Luckily he rescued me there again shortly after the business, about seven years in, we started losing a tremendous amount of money, buckets full of money. And it came as a shock because I his Blue-Eyed Boy, I'm so successful. What happens? Why all of a sudden all these losses, whatever I worked so hard for over seven years, it could be gone in a moment. And I found myself in my garage a year later on my knees, crying out to God to have mercy on me and rescue me from the situation and repenting of my pride and my arrogance and my striving and building it in my own strength. And he did. He came and he rescued me. William, it was very shortly after that the situation turned. It was miraculous and it turned.
So you could imagine early the next year, I was still very raw and I was covered in the fear of God and just asking him, “Now do you want me to build this thing out now? I don’t ever want to make the same mistakes again.?
I felt God say to me that he wants me to give away. Well, what did I have? I had detonated an insolvent company and I asked him if he wants that. But I heard God say the word equity to me. And that's a very interesting word. Now, the founder of a business always believes that the equity value is hundreds of billions. The balance sheet could showed deep zeros that the founder always believes it's worth more. And I think God went after the very thing that could become a mammoth stronghold in my life- that very thing that I believe I'm building, something of massive equity value. He said he wants that.
And it was very difficult, but at the same time, I knew this thing is actually really worth minus something to deal with. I said, “OK God, I'll give you shares, and that you're going to show me how.” And I asked him how he feels about 30 percent; he remained quiet and then I gave him 30. And that's where we are. Very shortly after that, we grew it to 51, because I started understanding the benefits of inviting God Almighty, the creator of everything, to have him as a shareholder in your business. The value proposition is just so big! At first you don't know it, but once I did it, I started realizing what I did and I realized, “hold on, let's let's give him a controlling stake and then I can sit back and watch this thing grow.” And that's where we are today.
WN: I love parts of that story that, of course, because we have a God that runs after us harder than we can imagine that he rescued you. But hearing a practical, it just gets me every time when you hear of God coming to the rescue and our audience knows I cry a decent amount. So, you know, I may cry again now, but it's just a beautiful story of you submitting.
And, you know, and it's not the prosperity gospel- it's a reality of the scripture, right? It’s like, when we do turn to the Lord and when we repent and we give it back to him like he's there! He's there for everyone listening, Not everyone's going to be in that spot. People have already done it. But, man, if you are- run to him, be with him. It's an amazing story. And, you know, and I would imagine the the way God wants to run in their business or be a shareholder may look different, but to submit that to him is the point. Right?
BL: William, I think, is going after the one thing that he knows will drive the biggest wedge between you and him, sometime in the future. He's going to go after that thing. All he's really asking is just to surrender, whatever it is, just surrender- I've got this. I know your future better than you will ever know. Just let me do this with you and it will be so worth it. It's all he’s asking.
WN: I'm going to turn you over to Daryl after one more question here. We got so excited about the wisdom you have here- I forgot to ask you: Could you tell our audience a little bit of what WastePlan is, how many employees you have, what you guys do in South Africa? I think the name tells a little bit; I think people are already on the edge of their seat, knowing a little bit. But could you tell us a little bit more just about the business. who you try to serve, and how you try to care for God's world through the business?
BL: Yes, absolutely. So most companies have ways as part of the production or service offering, and we found that that's normally an afterthought and it's a liability. It's an ever increasing cost that somebody somewhere has to manage. But there's no specialist or an expert or dedicated person to do that. So we offer a service companies, food companies, factories, hospitals, hotels, shopping centers.
We will bring our personnel onto your site. We will segregate your waste. We will divert as much away from landfill as possible. And as we divert the waste away from the landfill, we turn it from a liability into an asset. We have enough data to show it's an appreciating asset. So we segregate the waste at the source in separate streams. And we sell those streams. The value of those streams we sell increase in value year-on-year. We return the biggest part of that value back to the client.
What happens in this process is that person that did that sorting and the handling of the waste, he realizes. “I was part of turning a wasteful item that's a liability into an asset.” And in that process, he generated new revenue, he earned a salary, and with that comes dignity because he was part of turning value out of something with no value.
And that's the beautiful part of what's happening here. We have about a 2.5K employees scattered over 10 cities. We have about 630 clients that we service Waste gets segregated from all the sites, they moves into big processing centers, which we call “Recycling Centers.” There, we do final sorting, we compress them and we sell them to the highest bidder. We call these buyers “Waste Traders.”
Darryl Heald: Waste Trader, that’s a good one! I love just hearing this story. ica, I have a personal love for South Africa; we've had lots of great adventure there. It’s a lot of fun to be have a chance to tell more people just how God's moving in your life and your business in the country, things like that.
So I want to take us back when we first met. I think our audience has already heard that Bertie is a deep thinker. I just remembered where we have a mutual friend. He invited you and Leslie to this journey, generosity. Why don't we just start there? What did you think about that? And just the process that happened?
BL: It was mind boggling to process all the information that was presented over that weekend. I saw how very, very poor people gave everything in those videos. I mean, those discussions. And I saw how excessively wealthy people did the same. But what struck me was that the richest and the poorest were equally happy. Joy. Joy that is deeper than what a dictionary can define for you. And I think that's what hooked me, that I was chasing really after satisfaction all my life. And you think that wealth will give it and then you'll meet people and they'll tell you, “no, it doesn't.” But that we can realize. “Hold on. I think I got the secret. Yes. This is the thing that I've been chasing after all my life.” This deep satisfaction and joy comes only from a place of true generosity. And I was just trying to piece that together. What would that look like for me when I leave this weekend? And I wanted to just take in as much as I possibly can while I'm there so that I have as much to work with when I go back home on Monday.
DH: Thanks for sharing that. I know there's a hope and desire that all of us as entrepreneurs and investors, that we understand that value proposition that is more blessed to give and receive and that we can truly live in that point of joy.
So a couple of things, though, that I just when I think about Bertie, I just I love how you are walking out this jury. One of them is when we were driving home from the office to your house for a dinner one night and up ahead of us, there are some guys at the light who were begging for money and things like that. So take the story from there. I thought that was just I forget the date of its day, but tell our audience just what you do. I mean, this is just like everyday generosity. I just love this piece.
BL: I should give you a little bit of context. In South Africa, the unemployment level now sits at 38%. The amount of school dropouts is ridiculous- something like only 48% of people starting grade one get to grade 12. So you could imagine the amount of people on the streets that do not have jobs.
The guy in that story is named Bennett. He’s a beggar. He’s bent over. He was hit by a car. That broke his back, and he's never been able to get surgery. He's bent over almost 90 degrees. He's just at the traffic light on my way home, and he's got the brightest of smiles, so it's easy to be generous to him. But surprisingly, most people are not. After the jog weekend, one of the first discussions that I think you see every time is, “Is it right to give to a beggar? It's just going to buy alcohol?” I remember that weekend someone saying, I don't know who it was, that person said, “But it's his job to give account for the money he received. It's not your job to give account on his behalf. Just give. Your job is to give account for the money God gave you. And that way you live generously that.” My wife and I had decided we are going to give to every beggar. we we started changing money to have as much cash as possible.
We quickly ran out of money, so that plan didn't work well. We then became a lot wiser and we broke it up into smaller denominations of money and so that you can give less but give to more people. And then it is just one of the beneficiaries of that decision. And they love seeing my car. And if he hasn't seen my car for a while, especially now during COVID, if I drive past it on my way to the office and he sees me, he will stop all the traffic just to get to me because he knows he's going to get something.
DH: Well, I just love the relationship you have. I mean, it was obviously that was I mean, that's happened dozens and dozens of times. You've talked about education and the importance of education. Let's talk about what you and Leslie is from a kingdom investing side. We think about this giving. What are your particularly passionate about? What are you excited about giving to right now?
BL: It's really been about the education here. The education stats and South Africa are alarming- it’s a bomb that will explode if nothing happens. There's another stat- about 4% of kids that start in grade one will pass grade 12- 4%. So you have 96% of your population that cannot count. So the quality of jobs and the amount of jobs that they'll get is few. And so the amount of unemployed people, the volume of people that are unemployed is growing year on year. And it just doesn't make sense that one should live in this country and think that that's OK.
So we put as much effort into educating people and just basic skills. So first of all, the capital for that reform really is the structure we formed where we could have got as a legal shareholder in our company. And the Nyko Capital uses all of its funds and it throws it into schooling. So there's a few schools up here in Pretoria and Johannesburg, Christian schools. So we try and throw all our skills in there, all the networks, all our relationships, and as far as possible that we could use our resources and our assets. And money is just a very small part of that.
The lady that works in our kitchen, who cleans our house, looks after the kids when we are not there to try and do as much as we can for her and her kids in terms of housing, schooling, the gospel, help them understand the gospel of the gospel and preach the gospel in the communities. The guy works in our garden and we just felt that that is practical in South Africa. If one just starts there, you'll stay busy for the rest of your life, just there. You do not have to go after big things, just those immediate lives around you influence them and help them educate themselves.
DH: Yeah. Thank you for sharing. Some of that is a real joy for me to see some of those schools with you on that last trip. I mean, how many students do you have in these schools now?
BL: They're all there's about a thousand students, I think, in all the schools where we're involved. I'm particularly drawn to one school with its two hundred kids. It's in the middle of Mamelodi township. It is a Christian private school. It's private because there's no other support coming from the government. So it's really donations. And some of the parents are paying fees to keep the kids in there. But it's beautiful what's happening there. It's kids that have all the odds stacked up against themselves. If they did not go to the school, they would go to one of our failing government schools that are producing the results I've just mentioned.
So here we are creating an environment for them where they have great education, great principal with a great teaching group that we teach the gospel, we model the gospel, we show the gospel, we model grace. We model generosity. And we try and show them what good fatherhood looks like because that's the one big lacking thing in the poor communities. There are no fathers there.
So the way I see it is here’s two hundred kids that will become two hundred families one day. We'll have a chance at success in South Africa because of the school and that on its own is so rewarding because you look in the eyes of these kids and you interview them and you hear what they say and you hear kids say, “I need to live generous with my fellow students.” That comes from a kid that has nothing. And that's beautiful because that kid gets it and that kid is going to enjoy success and joy because they get that concept of generosity.
DH: That's great. Thanks for sharing that, Bertie. You also have a real passion for leadership; you're studied this for your own self as a leader, your company and your community and family things. Tell us a little bit more about these. What's driving you to do these interviews with other leaders there in South Africa?
BL: Daryl, I just started with interviewing my mentor when he was getting old; I needed to have some video footage of what he's taught me over the years. So I asked him and questions some of the questions are ones I've never had time to ask him. And some of the questions that I asked that deeply impacted me. So I asked him that. I took a video of it. We broke it into 10 little snippets, videos, the purpose was really just to release it into our organization. But the value was so much that we thought, let's literally just start a YouTube channel called “Stories that Inspire.” We posted on there, and then for anyone to enjoy. And I thought, that is wonderful. And I asked God if he wants me to continue with that and felt free to go find another leader like him. My deal with God was if he had to keep sending me people that are willing to be interviewed by me, I will continue to do so. And we are on series 6, I think, right now.
And I am just enjoying hearing from these people because everyone who has achieved the level of success are always keen to share it. They're not stingy. Everyone who has had success wants to share it. So that's what I do. Like I ask them and I try and package it in snippets that other people can enjoy and use and benefit from it.
WN: Amen Bertie. As we come nearer to the close, I want to give you an opportunity just to maybe speak, just to have an open mic a little bit again to talk to the entrepreneurs out there that may be listening. And any other advice that you might have about, you know, just how God taught you to lead a business from a faith first perspective.
BL: Thank you, William. Yes, this all comes from the journey of starting to surrender, and I have developed a conviction that our father wants us to steward his stuff on his behalf. Now, we've heard this. This is oold-techie, but if we can just pause for a moment and think of your earthly dad had assets with hundred billion dollars and he asks you, “my son, would you take over the running of this company while I'm alive,” then what would you do? How would you do that?
Well, the first thing is, you'll be very fearful and respectful. And as you step into those very big shoes, you will honor him and every one of your decisions. You will seek him in every one of your decisions. And you must check in with him daily. And our father, the creator of the universe, has created resources that generates about 90 trillion dollars of GDP every year. We are his sons and daughters, and he wants us to stay with these assets on his behalf. So why do we get caught up so much and what we create and what we hold onto this such big journey out there?
By calling for us, I almost feel like our father is sitting on the edge of his seat waiting for us to surrender let go of our stuff and the power that stuff has over us, and say, “God, I'm your son and I'm here to steward your assets on your behalf, for your glory.”
God recently showed me in Romans 8:19 (this is my translation of this)- all of creation is waiting eagerly for the Sons of God to stand up and reveal themselves and say, here we are. And then to do what? To risk your creation out of the bondage of corruption and to then steward it in a way that gives glorious liberty. What is glorious liberty? It is it's a freedom that gives glory back to him.
I think that's our calling as sons and daughters. So when he gives us assets to steward companies and people, he wants us to steward them in a way that brings liberty, freedom to the resources of the earth in the way we were told to steward the animals, the plants, the rivers, everything! The resources in it and the people and all of creation should bring glory to father because of the way that we as sons are stewarding his assets.
I just think this is such a big calling, that we cannot waste time getting caught up in stuff and status, you know, and accolades. And I just felt that the only way that I was able to do this is to reach a place of complete surrender. So when I gave God shares in the business and I gave him control, it almost felt like that was absolutely necessary for that to happen before I could really steward things on his behalf. Before then, it was all for me, as for me, my family, their inheritance, my legacy and all that nonsense.
WN: Oh, I love that. It wasn't something you begrudgingly did, or maybe you did, but it was necessary. It was like that was the only way for it to work, actually, in sort of God's world is to take that step of obedience.
BL: Yeah. And I want to add one more thing. The second point to that is the idea of generosity, how to live generous lives. I realized that our father is a generous father, and the father of lies is a stingy father. And selfishness and stinginess come from the fear of scarcity. And generosity comes from the understanding of abundance and abundant provision from our father. And it's almost as if we could live our lives in either one of these two veins. You can't be in both. And when you realize that my father is the father of abundance, I can share my resources abundantly with the ones around me, and I can live abundantly gracious with the people that I lead, employ, my family, my friends, my neighbors, then you see the lie of the enemy. But until you make that choice, you live in the lie of the enemy.
You always think, especially in South Africa, in a declining economy. “How can I put away as much as I can now so that my kids will be OK on the day when I die? I think we all live with that fear; the father of lies is whispering those lies into our ears. And he whispers little lies, he puts little packets of lies and fear around our lives, neatly wrapped as gifts, tiny little packets. And as soon as you take the one and you open it up, you give him legal right to enter and cause havoc. And you cannot live in faith and fear.
So Faith says, “my father is abundant, is my provider, and he will look after me and my family.” And fear says “it's up to me to put away as much as I possibly can so that my kids and my family are going to be OK one day.”
WN: Amen, I almost hate to ask another question, a wonderful place to end, but we do have to get to our closing question because we always ask it. And so usually I would cut myself off. But thank you for sharing that. And our closing question, what we love to ask:
Where does God have you in his word today/ Where does he have you in his scripture these days?
It could be something that you could have been meditating on for a season. It could be something God revealed to you this morning. But just to let our audience in to where God's walking with you in his holy word today,
BL: William, I want to share something that happened over the last week. I got busy. I had to travel to Capetown, came back, went on a mountain bike race, traveled again. And this morning when I sat down, I opened my word. I saw it for the last eight days. I did not have a quiet time. So the last eight days, I got so busy that I didn't sit with my father and I speak with him. And I realized the day before, I exploded in the meeting because I acted out of my flesh, out of anger. And when I sat with God, I repented for not seeking him daily. I allowed business to come and take me away from him.
I felt the father showing me a picture that the enemy wants us just to move away from my father slowly. You'll never come with a big bang for your give away. His plan will come slowly. You'll distract us with things that he knows will move us away from our father. And if you can get us away for long enough, then he introduce a stage 2, which is riches, lies and fear. Because if we've been away from our father long enough, he know that we will not hear this Holy Spirit in the moment and introduce introduces little lines once we take them. He comes in with a lot of lies and after a week I was operating fully in my flesh, making fleshly decisions and exploding at people. I'm making bad decisions and
That's just a fresh revelation that I did not set before my father every day. And I ask him advice and if I don't sit in his word, so his presence and I listen to the Holy Spirit, I don’t care how long I've been a Christian- I will fail. I will act in inflation, will make bad decisions, and I'll disappoint him.
WN: Amen Amen, so grateful for you joining us today, so grateful for your story, so grateful for sharing what God's done and through your obedience and at times your disobedience. And thank you for sharing both of those and how he still comes to the rescue through all of those examples. So grateful for you and grateful for your story.
Bertie Lourens: Thank you William.
‘God bless #HAGDOW
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The stereotype of today’s entrepreneur centers around young, sleek tech startups. If you’re reading about the new and popular businesses, you’re likely to hear about twenty-somethings who have come up with market-busting ideas.
Maybe, you happen to be you’re one of those people—if so, great! This recording is for you- although the bio may not reflect that at first!.
One of my newer friends is San Francisco’s Harry Kaestener, chairman of Soverign’s Capital and one of the leaders of the Faith-Driven Entrepreneur movement. This conversation FDE got to have recently has a certain classic feel to it in the way that believers can maintain integrity while still sustaining success in business.
The interviewee, Drayton McLane, has been blessed to head a family-led logistics operation here in Texas that’s been in business for over a century that is today part of the Berkshire-Hathaway portfolio and was a key player in the logistical growth of the WalMart empire. Drayton was a recent owner of the Houston Astros, a major benefactor to alma-maters Baylor University and Michigan State University, and is currently on the board of directors for the Texas Central Railway Company.
‘Spoiler alert: the lessons communicated in the interview are of the classic variety (many will call them “old school”). They include nuggets like : arriving early any staying late, keeping your word, and demonstrating value by providing it.
And one classic truth buried a little ways in: it’s okay to say “no” to big clients if “yes” means sacrificing who you are as a disciple. No guarantees here, obviously, but you you may even get rewarded materially in the long run. As I personally interact more with people who are looking to leverage entrepreneurship to fuel God’s calling in their personal lives, I’m seeing this as growing challenge in this space.
I’m hoping this conversation will bless your day, and supply you with some of the necessary courage to face it in God’s way.
‘God bless. #HAGDOW
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The following comments were recently penned by Bonvera company CEO Robert Dickie. Even if you’re not part of the Bonvera entrepreneur network, this pep talk will certainly apply to who you are as a business owner. The world has certainly gotten a little scarier in the last year or two. It will be believers like you who will show the way out!
‘God bless. #HAGDOW
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away….(pan the Star Wars quintessential song)
Episode 2020. A rebel force awakens. It is a period of civil unrest. As rebel forces are pushed apart by the dreaded COVID19 pandemic, some tech empires gain power while others spread fear and false news, hurting and enslaving the middle class. With limited travel and economic shutdowns and seeing the eventual endgame where a new system is created where freedom was lost, choice minimized, and power consolidated to a few, a group of people gathered to band together and fight back.
You may not have known this, but you’re a heroic star in today’s movie! In American mythology, it’s always been about good vs. evil, right vs. wrong, and freedom vs. enslavement. These themes are woven throughout our culture and society as we are drawn to charismatic characters to root for and stand behind. There is a protagonist and a group against them.
I’ve loved Star Wars since I was a little boy. Growing up and even now, I’ve seen the theme of lone individuals trying to make their way in a crazy world, having dreams of a better future, and struggling with obstacles and challenges along the way just like Luke Skywalker in Star Wars.
None of us could have foreseen what 2020 was going to bring- or how it was going to affect our society, culture, globe, and life. Historic unemployment, a global shutdown, total economic disaster, and business closures happened all at once. Everything that is fragile was being exposed – fragile systems, business plans, peace, and relationships. Yet there was an incredible opportunity bestowed upon us for those who were willing to search to find it.
Why is it that we never hear about the opportunity – the good amidst the chaos of 2020? The news doesn’t like to talk about anything positive because fear sells. Volatility is always discomforting, but it also presents a great opportunity.
Have you seen the opportunities this past year has brought us? E-commerce growth went through the roof like a parabolic curve as we accomplished 10 years of growth in the span of 60 days! The wealth that has been created in the e-commerce ecosystem is remarkable. The world is being remade around us.
Historically, the U.S. was once based primarily on the agriculture industry. Over the course of several centuries as advancements were slowly made people had to see their future differently and thus retrain and re-engage to take advantage of the new opportunities that had been created due to automation and technology. These changes brought massive improvements in prosperity and quality of life. They took decades to unfold and allowed people the time to adapt and retrain.
However, changes that took centuries to slowly unfold in the past are now taking months due to the rapid acceleration of technology shifts in our society. This rapid rate of change is causing incredible social unrest and instability. It’s happening so fast that people can’t adapt. They feel it. One Harvard Business School professor, talking about the issues facing a government in Africa, said, “You can focus on helping the next generation or people living today but you can’t do both. You have to make a choice and they are deciding today is a lost generation.”
So what happens to the people struggling today? I strongly believe the playbook for jobs and careers and the way we engineer our lives is different from what our parents and grandparents were taught. It is a new game today with new rules! Ignore them at your own peril. As a father of six, I think of this often as I help my children navigate the changing career landscape they will face.
With that said, here is the unfolding landscape around us. Amazon is becoming one of the biggest juggernauts of our time. We are watching a wave of job destruction because of what Amazon is doing. They’re not just a bookstore or retailer; in fact, they have become an economic Kraken- with tentacles in every aspect of the US economy. The tiny online book retailer has grown with the aid of government subsidies, tax breaks, and protection into a big tech Kraken that dominates retail, cloud computing, logistics, and delivery systems, web service, and more.
Federal governments around the world are growing to understand the issue and have launched investigations into uncompetitive and anti-trust business practices that are hurting others in the economy. Last year, they had 85% of retail sales online for Christmas shopping. This tiny start-up took one small step year after year, and now they’ve reached total domination and taken over many aspects of our society. They proudly proclaim they are creating many entry-level jobs- but they fail to highlight they are also destroying many small and medium-size businesses around the country which are the backbone of most local communities. Business leaders are talking about those who got “Amazoned” and are hoping THEY don’t get “Amazoned” in the near future.
We have seen this past year that tech companies like Amazon and Facebook, and their anti-competitive practices are becoming a threat to democracy. We don’t have a level playing field and it is hurting Mainstreet.
Obviously, we are living in an extremely divided country- so it’s shocking when ultra-conservative Republican Senator Ted Cruz and socialist progressive Democrat Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez agree on something: we should take note. They both agree that big tech is out of control with too much power.
Remember in Star Wars: A New Hope? Darth Vader and his evil forces had immense power in the Death Star, and forced Princess Leia to watch the destruction of her planet. Obi-Wan Kenobi on the Millennium Falcon said, “I feel a disturbance in the force.” Many of us are feeling a similar disturbance in the world right now. Luckily, a rebel force is arising and saying, “We’re going to fight back!”
And spoiler alert: it’s us! We have agency, the ability to think and act differently, and the ability to choose a new path for our families and businesses.
In the midst of all this change, we came together as a team- inspired to engineer a company to be different. Together, our team is building and engineering the Bonvera company to weather the storms of today and tomorrow. We are poised for growth and ready to help people who are looking for a different path.
So what are we doing, and what do we stand for?
We’re an e-commerce company crazy enough to think we can disrupt the status quo in both the e-commerce and gig-economy revolutions.
We believe people are tired and ready to take the power back.
We believe people understand the power of their vote with their wallets.
We know people want to support small and local businesses by putting those dollars to use in their own communities and putting more money back in their own pockets instead of big tech.
We know people want clean, healthy, life-changing products that are socially and environmentally conscious while also empowering the workers and producers of those goods and services.
We know people want to support their local hometowns and small and medium-sized businesses that are the backbone of the economy.
We know people want to do good in the world and support organizations doing the same.
And we know people are concerned about the concentrated wealth and power of big-tech and how it is being used against them.
I want to congratulate the Bonvera family– whether you’re a business owner or as a customer! You leaned in and have done an astonishing job this past year. In the midst of a challenging year, we’ve launched products, hired people, and developed new services. We had to get the job done, no matter what was going on around us. Too many people and families were counting on us to lean in and LEAD during times of adversity. We did not sit back waiting for the storms to pass.
So, thank you for putting on the mantle of leadership by leading from the front. You shared hope, optimism, courage, and vision when people needed it most! When the world was full of fear and uncertainty, you have faithfully served in your communities and you have made an impact. Bonvera is creating an ecosystem where the average American and small business owner can succeed.
We’re not a “home-based business,” we are a “Home IS Business” where you have complete control and protection. Instead of others profiting from all the spending that goes through your home, we believe YOU should profit. For those who have been with us…thank you!
And for those longing to make a difference…welcome home!
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Anyone in a place of looking to transition to leveraging entrepreneurship to power a calling of theirs would do well to absorb this conversation between Bonvera CEO Bob Dickie and April Zeilinger, as she helps to keep her husband’s family legacy alive in the challenging arena of American textiles.
April does double-duty these days. She is the Vice President of Operations with Zeilinger Wool Company- a fourth generation fiber mill producing thousands of pounds of natural fibers per week into yarn, socks and other items enjoyed within the craft and wool lovers market. but also the heart and soul behind the Brand Awareness and Marketing for the company.
Additionally, April is the creator of Foodie Yarn, a fun yarn line that is dyed the colors of food and launched it during the pandemic.
Previously, April worked 20 years in financial institutions before leaving everything that was comfortable around her, for half of her salary and took the risk to join her husband Jon in his family business. (The first half of this podcast recalls the challenges surrounding that transition.) The business had no presence on social media and a twelve year old website to start her entrepreneurial journey. She is a self-taught business gal who never wants to stop learning with a certificate in leadership from Great Lakes Bay Hispanic Leadership Institute through Saginaw Valley State University in Saginaw, Michigan.
The final third of the visit deals in more real-time with her company dealing with the challenges relating to the COVID-related lockdown in Michigan, how they got creative in responding to it, and the principles behind your local business circumstances can be best addressed. (Spoiler alert, that crisis of yours can produce opportunities to succeed where they might not have existed before!)
Key Learnings:
A break-up with your job isn’t fun, but you have to break-up sometimes.
You will experience resistance, so get ready for it.
Don’t let fear guide your decisions.
When you work with your spouse, you learn to have a mutual respect for each other’s strengths.
Learning to take knowledge and experience it in action is true learning.
No one tells you how to be an entrepreneur; you figure it out.
Ask people, especially women, where they see their career going.
Write good things to yourself and speak them to yourself.
Two things to do to grow in your own leadership abilities? Spend time by yourself and be curious.
God bless. #HAGDOW#
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Heads’ up. This post will be particularly relevant if you’ve invested in making a business through multi-family properties, or are seriously considering doing so. That being said, this conversation will be useful for the rest of us as we continue to see how God wishes to use our business as a way to bless others.
If you’ve been part of this orb for a decent length of time, you’ve certainly heard me preach on about the importance of community in building a purpose-driven business. So, what if you struggle to see how community can be built in the market you’ve chosen to serve in your enterprise?
Ben Pleat is the founder and CEO of Cobu, a consulting firm which aids property owners identify and develop community building opportunities between residents of various properties. The interviewers, Riley Kiltz and Trevor Hightower, lead a network of coworking locales in Fort Worth and Austin TX called the Craftwork Group, and their model has been successful in developing startup communities in several multifamily properties in their markets. (I highly recommend them if you need to land a business presence in Fort Worth, at the very least. Some good friends of mine swear by them, and they clearly see their enterprise as part of God’s mission in the world!)
Enjoy the conversation.
‘God bless. #HAGDOW
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As part of the Monthly Leadership Series from the New Way MBA education curriculum, Michigan-area business leader Joe Darkangelo shares one of three true game-changers in making your company culture truly unique in your marketplace and greatly enhancing the effectiveness of your God-given calling: Edification.
I want to say: congratulations on being on the New Way MBA training series. It is a vital par of building your Bonvera opportunity, for sure. So let’s dive right in.
The reason I want to talk about edification is because I really believe it’s a very, very important part of building our communities of people. Think about this: any time that we’ve ever seen a good movie, any time that we’ve ever got a new phone. Like, I’m a big Android guy, right? And so any time I’ve got the newest and greatest phone, I’m telling everyone I know about it. So much so, that people with iPhones are, you know, coming back at me with “the new iPhone’s the best!” You know, my daughter and my wife have iPhones, and my son and I, we have the Android, so we all kinda go back and forth as many people do.
But have you ever noticed that you believe in something, you edify that whole thing, where you talk about a movie, you talk about a great restaurant you ate at, you edify that, right? We speak the truth about it. And that’s what we want to talk about- how to do that with the people you’re working with to help build your community. But always speak the truth. So, edification, by definition, is the instruction or improvement of a person- morally or intellectually.
Really, I always tell people that it’s speaking the truth. Talk good about somebody, build them up, uplift them, enlighten them, brag on them. It’s very important, a lot of times, I’ve seen many talks where the speaker will come out, and the person introducing them will say something like “Heeere’s Joe!” or, you know, it not that exciting, and the crowd doesn’t get very captivated, when the speaker starts speaking.
So, whether it’s speaking, whether it’s doing a meeting with someone, whether you’re talking about the company, or whatever it is, edification is very, very important.
People will lighten up. ‘You’ve ever noticed when you talk good about somebody, that they just lighten up? We really have some pros at this within Bonvera, the leadership of Bonvera is actually, very excellent at it. And sometimes they’re so good at it, that when they’re talking about you, you’re kind of embarrassed! But it’s that good, right? That’s why they have large, businesses and in the senior leadership of Bonvera.
So, as we go through this, I’ll talk about how to implement this, like I said, in one-on-one’s, Zoom calls, intro meetings, RTE’s, NTE’s, things of that sort. So, I figure it’s a pretty important thing. Especially, the Bible talks about it, seventeen times about edification in the Bible, right? So it seems like it’s a lot in that book, to be talking about edification. The apostle Paul was the best edifier; he talks about edification the most. And so what we want to do, really, is help you understand where we think it’s sop important for you, and so let’s continue on here.
So, like I said, Bonvera leadership is the best, you’ve noticed, people are edifying each other all the time, people are edifying teams, and I want to challenge you with: is really - try doing it yourself. Try to start talking, I mean, a lot of us, like, talk good about our families and our spouses. (I mean, I hope my spouse Laura talks good about me! :)) Think about that- we’re truly doing that anyway. So let’s talk a little bit about that.
So let me give you some “for instance’s,” here. We talk about already how we’re speaking the truth. Never say anything that’s not true. It doesn’t do anybody any good, right? Always speak the truth. So first of all, say, I’m working with Jim Martin, or I’m working with Tim Jarvinen, or Cody Newton, or Bill Newton, or whoever we’re working with- think about this: whomever I’m talking about, I’m always edifying them, the good things I know about all of them, So, whomever you’re working with, you’re going to want to do the same thing. because what it does, just like that movie, it makes them want to meet that person, right? And it also gives that person credibility. So, we want to teach this down through our team.
So, let’s start off with the Zoom meetings. There’s a lot of a lot of that going on with the pandemic, and I’m pretty sure that Zoom meetings will continue on. Even tough we were doing them before the pandemic happened, people are using them more and more now. What’s happening is we’re showing this opportunity one-on-one, Bonvera presentations, So, if you’re being asked to introduce somebody, you’re going to want to find out some information about that person first about them. Some good, truthful information. Get with whomever you’re working with, some information. There’s also a lot of leadership information bios on the bonvera.rocks blog, right there on our website. So on Zoom’s you want to edify really well, because t5hat person doing that meeting for you, nobody knows who that person is. Gang, all they’re going to see is the picture of the person on that Zoom screen. That’s all they’re going top see. So you really want to uplift, talk good, and tell the truth about whoever that speaker is. So when you do that, might do that for maybe one minute, a little over a minute, at the very most, because if you do it more than that, it drags on an on and on. An so, give some good information, and then the speaker has his credibility as soon as he gets out of the gate and starts talking, because the truth has been spoken bout him. So Zoom is one of the ways we do it.
Intro meetings, live intros: I love getting the newest people up and introducing them to the different speakers, because it gets them comfortable with getting up there, right? But remember, a lot of times, people will come up to you and say “hey tell me something about yourself,” but sometimes, that’s uncomfortable as a speaker. The best thing to do is to really get with someone else, get with their spouse or someone who knows them to get some facts. Again, the Bonvera blog has a lot of information about many leaders. But, make it exciting! One thing about any kind of introduction (because we are talking about introductions in edification, all of this will tie in together), basically, you don’t want to give their name until the end. So, if you’re introducing anybody, you don’t want to say, “Joe did this, and Joe did that.” You don’t want to do that What you want to do is give all the accolades and everything, then at the end, say “please help me welcome Joe to the front.” That’s kind of how that should work. So that’s going to happen at intro meetings, too- totally edifying the speakers.
At the NTE, you might be asked to do the same. You may notice at the NTE’s usually the introductions there are very edifying to the speakers we have- a lot of guest speakers who come in- it’s very, very important to get the right edification out, because many times, people wont know too much about the speaker, so we’re going to want to get some information, edify- this way, we know that the speaker will be talking about, he becomes more exciting. The same thing with RTE’s. So as you can see, whatever it is, you want to make sure edification is key to building your communities of people.
One-on-ones is something. As people are meeting in certain states, one-on-one now, if you’re bringing somebody with you to help share this opportunity, make sure the person you’re meeting with knows you’re bringing somebody with you. Don’t ever just have somebody pop in. It doesn’t make any difference if it’s Willie Nelson, you, Cher, etc., if they don’t know who the person is anyway, it doesn’t make any difference. You could take your sixteen-year-old son, if that’s’ what you want to do. But what I’m talking about is, if you’re going to bring somebody with you to help share this opportunity, edification is so, so important. Edify that person, so that your friend wants to meet that person. So, if you bring me to a plan, and I’m the one working with you (a lot of our teams do this really, really well!), they’ll edify-edify-edify when they get there on a one-on-one, fast-start meeting, or whatever it is, I’ll be able to edify those people back. There’s something cool about a community of people talking good about each other, isn’t there? That’s really, really important, because once people start edifying, if people are throwing that back, again, we’re uplifting people, enlightening people, making people feel good. When you are introducing folks, you want to have their achievements, the appropriate facts about them, but do it with a purpose. Don’t make it scripted, talk from the heart. I always tell people- there’s not a certain set of words to say or do, but you have to have some music to it- there’s got to be some attitude with it, so to speak, right?
So this brings me to say this: we talk a lot about edification when it comes to speaking, recordings maybe, NTE’s RTE’s one-on-ones, etc., but I’d like to address edification in your every-day communication with people. As you’re talking to people inside or outside of the business, one of the most important things to do is talk really good, edify, about all other people that you’re working with. It doesn’t have to be done as you’re presenting this opportunity, But even with people in business with you already, talk good about others. There’s nothing wrong with that. You’re helping people build each each other up. We respect each other, right? We want to respect others, and we want to build others up. Don’t ever talk bad, don’t ever talk negative about anybody, because as soon as you do that, they’re going to think you’re doing he same thing about them. We always want to speak the truth positive, but we want to get really, really good about edification. So as go over all of this, think about this in everyday life, everything we do. Whether it’s meetings ;ole where we’re all going soon to the NTE here; as we’re doing that, we’re going to be around a whole lot of great people. You’re going to be talking about your teams, edifying. And the more your team sees you doing that, the more they will be doping that. The leader leads, right? So it’s not just, you’re doing all the edification, and they’re not doing anything. It “always starts at the top,” so to speak. So if it’s your team, and you’re edifying, then all we have to do is do it so much that your team starts doing the same thing. Just be the example that others follow. That’s what leadership is all about, right? I just think that this topic of edification is so important, to help lift people up. Nowadays, people aren’t used to being talked good about all the time. Usually, it’s the negative that attracts the news, the gossip out there. We don’t want to do that. And the Bonvera organization, we don’t do that, won’t do that. We want positive, enlighting people. We want the truth being spoken about people. We want to talk good about people. Because we want to help people succeed. And I really believe edification is so important.
So I challenge you: think about, as you’re going thruought your day, the more edification you do, just like we talk about good restaurants, cell phones, whatever it is, think about doping the same thing with the people you’re in business with; think about doing that with the people you’re in love with; think about doing the same thing with your family, your friends; and close everyone becomes. Edification is not hard at all, but we have to practice it. My challenge to you today in this short, little audio I want to put out there about edification- are you doing it? Are you doing tit every day? Are you uplifting people? Are you making people feel good? Are you speaking truth about somebody, to leverage an opportunity like Bonvera that will truly help people change their lives, like it has so many of us? I challenge you- get out there, edify, start talking good about people, start uplifting people, let’s make a difference in this world.
God bless. #HAGDOW#
This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit larrycropp.substack.com/subscribe