What separates a great leader from a merely competent one? According to Ken Roberts, President of Atlas Roofing (and a 30 year veteran of Masco Corporation), and executive coach Jamie Ramsden, the answer isn't intelligence, charisma, or having all the answers. It's humility.
In this episode of A Podcast About Leadership, host Jonathan Kirschner sits down with Ken Roberts, president of one of North America's leading building materials manufacturers, and CEO coach Jamie Ramsden, author of Let's Go: How Great Leaders Shape the Future, to talk about why humility is the leadership skill most executives overlook, and why it's so often mistaken for weakness.
Ken shares the story of the hardest decision of his career: a gut call made during the COVID supply chain crisis with zero hard data behind it. That moment taught him a lesson that's stuck with him ever since. If you're the smartest person in the room, you probably haven't built a great team.
Ken and Jamie get into:
Whether you're a first time manager or a seasoned executive, this is a grounded, real world conversation about how humility, self awareness, and courage add up to stronger teams and better decisions.
Topics covered: executive leadership, humility in leadership, decision making under uncertainty, team building, executive coaching, energy management, servant leadership, CEO advice.
Can real love for your people and the hard decision to let one of them go ever coexist? That's the paradox at the center of this bonus episode of A Podcast About Leadership, where host Jonathan Kirschner, CEO of AIIR Consulting, sits down with his close friend Jamie Ramsden — a former CEO with 25 years of international business experience, executive leadership coach, and author of Let's Go: How Great Leaders Shape the Future. Across a wide-ranging conversation touching life, love, and leadership, the two trade personal stories about the moments that test a leader's identity most: not the strategy decisions, but the human ones.
This bonus episode is for any leader who has ever hesitated to make a hard call out of fear of hurting someone they care about. Jamie and Jonathan make the case that real compassion isn't avoiding the hard conversation — it's how you show up inside it. To learn more about how AIIR Consulting helps leaders navigate the hardest calls in business and in life, visit aiirconsulting.com.
Most organizations are running on the wrong fuel — and they don't know it. The tools leaders reach for most instinctively — competition, incentives, fear, measurement — may be the very things quietly killing the culture they're trying to build.
Peter Arthur Smith has spent more than five decades studying, practicing, and quietly refining a theory of leadership that cuts against nearly everything business schools teach. A former British Army captain turned organizational consultant, Smith founded Leadership Solutions in Manhattan in 1994 and has advised leaders across nearly ninety countries. In this episode of A Podcast About Leadership, host Jonathan Kirschner, CEO of AIIR Consulting, sits down with Smith to explore the ideas behind his forthcoming book, The Enlightened Leader.
If you've ever suspected that the pressure-driven management culture around you is producing compliance but not commitment, this conversation will give you language — and a framework — to change it. The gap between conventional management and enlightened leadership is not abstract. It is the difference between an organization that winds itself up and one that slowly runs down.
To learn more about how AIIR Consulting helps leaders build resilient, high-performing teams, visit aiirconsulting.com.
What separates the best from everyone else isn't talent — it's what they do with failure. At the Navy's elite TOPGUN school, thirty percent of training flights end in failure by design. The question is never whether you'll fall short. The question is how you respond when you do.
In this conversation, host Jonathan Kirschner, CEO of AIIR Consulting, welcomes three veterans of naval aviation to A Podcast About Leadership: Mike "Wizzard" McCabe, a former Top Gun instructor, J. Todd Ross, who served as Top Gun's intelligence officer after nearly four years of flying in the backseat of an F-14, Traci Ross, one of the very first women to deploy on a U.S. aircraft carrier in a combat role. All three are now executive coaches who bring the culture of carrier aviation directly into the boardroom.
If you lead a team and have wondered why excellence is so hard to sustain, this episode offers a precise and practical answer. The culture that built TOPGUN can be built anywhere — and these three coaches will show you how.
To learn more about how AIIR Consulting helps leaders build resilient, high-performing teams, visit aiirconsulting.com.
What does a brick — one of humanity's oldest building materials — have to teach us about leading through disruption, integration, and change? The answer turns out to be more than you'd expect, and it starts with the paradox at the heart of great leadership: enduring strength combined with the willingness to adapt.
Steve Bell is President of Brickworks North America, the US subsidiary of Australia's largest brick manufacturer — a company producing over 300 million bricks a year across eight facilities. His path to the top is anything but conventional: Steve came up through HR, which gives him a rare lens on people, culture, and what it actually takes to build an organization that lasts. He joins Jonathan Kirschner, CEO of AIIR Consulting, on A Podcast About Leadership alongside Jamie Ramsden — former CEO, author of How to Shape a Better Future, and one of AIIR's elite executive coaches — who has coached Steve through the transition from trusted advisor to final decision-maker.
This one is for any leader who has ever confused loyalty with leadership, or mistaken a quiet team for an aligned one. You'll finish this conversation with a clearer sense of what it means to build something that lasts — in business, and in life.
To learn more about how AIIR Consulting helps leaders build resilient, high-performing teams, visit aiirconsulting.com.
The CHRO role has been quietly transforming — not in the gradual, incremental way of most professional evolution, but in a sharp, compressed shift that has redrawn what it means to lead people inside a major organization. The question is no longer whether HR belongs in the room where strategy gets made. The question is whether HR leaders are ready for what that actually demands.
Jonathan Kirschner sits down with three accomplished voices in the field: Maxine Carrington, Chief People Officer at Northwell Health, Bill Strahan, EVP of Human Resources at Comcast, and John Touey, Managing Partner of Trilogy Talent Advisors. The result is one of the most candid and substantive conversations about the CHRO role you're likely to hear.
This episode is for anyone who leads people — or leads leaders — and wants to think more honestly about what that responsibility requires in 2026 and beyond.
To learn more about how AIIR Consulting helps leaders build resilient, high-performing teams, visit aiirconsulting.com.
What does it take to lead in a place where ambition has no ceiling — where building the world's tallest skyscraper is just the beginning, and failure isn't an option? The Gulf Cooperation Council region has achieved what many thought impossible: transforming desert into global economic powerhouses in a single generation. But that kind of velocity creates a unique leadership challenge.
Jonathan Kirschner speaks with Wissam Adib, executive coach and leadership advisor based in Dubai, who has spent twenty years at the center of the UAE's transformation. Adib, a veteran of Dubai's government reform programs and now part of AIIR Consulting's executive coaching practice, has watched leaders navigate the tension between massive ambition and the psychological weight of never being allowed to fail. Joy Nissen, AIIR Managing Partner and business psychologist, joins the conversation to explore how leaders in high-stakes environments manage anxiety, contain risk, and build cultures that can sustain relentless growth.
This conversation is for senior leaders navigating high-growth environments, HR professionals building resilience into ambitious cultures, and anyone interested in the psychology of achievement under pressure. You'll walk away with a deeper understanding of how cultural context shapes leadership — and how to design systems that support rather than exhaust the people driving them.
To learn more about how AIIR Consulting helps leaders build resilient, high-performing teams, visit aiirconsulting.com.
In this bonus episode of A Podcast About Leadership, AIIR CEO Dr. Jonathan Kirschner sits down with Dr. Michael Platt — professor across three schools at the University of Pennsylvania, founder of the Wharton Neuroscience Initiative, and author of The Leader's Brain — to explore the science of social connection and what it means for leadership.
From a landmark monkey study on a Puerto Rico island to the aftermath of Hurricane Maria, Dr. Platt shares surprising findings about resilience, friendship, and the brain's capacity to adapt under pressure. The conversation spans genetics, grooming, empire-building, and why the most connected employees help companies outperform the S&P 500.
If you lead teams, communicate under pressure, or want to understand the hidden biology driving human performance, this episode offers a rare and fascinating look at what is really happening beneath the surface of every great team, every great conversation, and every great leader.
To learn more about how AIIR Consulting helps leaders build resilient, high-performing teams, visit aiirconsulting.com.
What is actually happening in the brain when a team clicks, a leader inspires, or a group of individuals becomes something greater than the sum of its parts? According to one of the world's leading neuroscientists, the answer lies not in strategy decks or personality assessments, but in the biology of human connection — and most leaders are only scratching the surface of what that means.
On this episode of A Podcast About Leadership, AIIR Consulting CEO Jonathan Kirschner is joined by Dr. Michael Platt, professor across three schools at the University of Pennsylvania, founder of the Wharton Neuroscience Initiative, and author of The Leader's Brain. Drawing on decades of research, from neuroeconomics to brain synchrony and AI, Dr. Platt makes the case that understanding how the brain actually works is one of the most powerful and underutilized tools available to leaders today.
The conversation spans the neuroscience of decision-making, the biology behind team chemistry, and why the human brain's unchanging nature makes great leadership more urgent than ever in the age of AI.
In this episode, we explore:
If you lead teams, communicate under pressure, or want to understand the hidden biology driving human performance, this episode offers a rare and fascinating look at what is really happening beneath the surface of every great team, every great conversation, and every great leader.
To learn more about how AIIR Consulting helps leaders build resilient, high-performing teams, visit aiirconsulting.com.
What separates good performers from truly elite ones, and why do some teams suddenly turn things around while others stay stuck? According to leaders working at the highest levels of professional sport, the answer is not just talent, technique, or effort. It is mindset, decision-making, recovery, and the often invisible dynamics that shape how people perform under pressure.
On this episode of A Podcast About Leadership, AIIR Consulting CEO Dr. Jonathan Kirshner is joined by three world-class performance experts operating at the intersection of sport, psychology, and leadership: Simon Rice, Vice President of Athlete Care for the Philadelphia 76ers; Holly Benner, elite ultramarathoner; and Lindsay Shaw, Director of Sport Psychology for the Cleveland Guardians. Together, they offer a rare, inside look at how elite performance is built, sustained, and recovered when things go off track.
Drawing from professional basketball, Major League Baseball, endurance sport, and executive coaching, the conversation explores why excellence is less about pushing harder and more about aligning people, culture, and decision-making over time. The group unpacks how leaders can navigate burnout, ruts, and losing streaks, and why the same principles that drive athletic turnarounds apply directly to organizations under pressure.
In this episode, we explore:
If you lead teams, operate under pressure, or want to elevate performance without burning out, this episode offers practical, hard-earned insights from environments where feedback is immediate and the stakes are public.
To learn more about how AIIR Consulting helps leaders build resilient, high-performing teams, visit aiirconsulting.com.
From the outside, an IPO can look like it's all confetti, bell ringing, and a soaring valuations. But, behind the scenes, it’s one of the most intense leadership transitions a company can face. Scrutiny increases overnight. The margin for error shrinks. And the leadership behaviors that fueled early growth can break under the weight of scale.
In this episode of A Podcast About Leadership, host Dr. Jonathan Kirchner sits down with two leaders who have seen what it really takes to navigate that shift: Gary Survis (Operating Partner, Insight Partners) and Katherine “Kat” Williamson (VP of Talent Development, Gong).
Together, they unpack the realities that rarely make it into the celebratory headlines — from the human toll of “living in transformation,” to the cultural rewiring required when a company goes from building fast to delivering predictably.
Gary and Katherine explore how founders and executives must evolve as the organization matures — including the hard truth that what got you here won’t get you there. They discuss why charisma and “good vibes” can’t substitute for clarity, discipline, and accountability — and how the best leaders learn to trade heroics for systems. You’ll hear how to identify which leadership skills will scale, which ones become liabilities, and why the companies that succeed long-term are the ones that treat reinvention as the job, not the exception.
This conversation is also a practical guide for leaders preparing for their next inflection point. Expect insights on building a “ready-now” leadership bench, managing expectations from investors and boards, and creating alignment when the pressure to execute is relentless. If you’re navigating hypergrowth, preparing for an IPO, integrating new executive talent, or trying to build a company that can thrive under constant change — this episode delivers the perspective (and the realism) you need.
What does CEO succession look like when it’s planned, values-led, and built for continuity and change at the same time?
In this episode of A Podcast About Leadership, host Jonathan Kirschner, founder and CEO of AIIR Consulting, sits down with three leaders who’ve lived the succession story from every angle:
Together, they explore the art and science of handing over the baton — including the internal work required of the outgoing CEO, the strategic choices required of the incoming CEO, and the practical routines that protect trust during a high-stakes transition.
Can love be a serious strategy in today’s high-pressure business environment?
In this episode of A Podcast About Leadership, host and AIIR Consulting CEO Dr. Jonathan Kirchner is joined by Bob Chavez, former President and CEO of Hermès Americas, and Jamie Ramsden, author and executive coach to both Jonathan and Bob.
Together, they explore a leadership philosophy centered on trust, care for people, and long-term commitment — a deliberate alternative to fear-based leadership and short-term thinking.
Drawing on Bob’s extraordinary journey — from his childhood on what he calls “the wrong side of the tracks” in San Antonio to his years at Princeton to stewarding one of the world’s most iconic luxury brands for more than two decades — the conversation reveals how timeless values, emotional courage, and focus can produce enduring performance in even the most competitive industries.
This episode is a masterclass in human-centered leadership — and a reminder that the most powerful force in business may still be the one leaders are most hesitant to name.
Key takeaways from the conversation include:
Whether you lead a global organization, a growing team, or yourself, this episode offers a powerful reframing of what leadership can look like when it is grounded in humanity.
To learn more about AIIR Consulting and its executive coaching services, visit www.aiirconsulting.com.
What does it take to lead when change is no longer episodic but constant and fluid? On this episode of A Podcast About Leadership, AIIR Consulting CEO Dr. Jonathan Kirschner sits down with Dr. Joy Nissen and Ian Wilcox to explore how leaders can stay grounded, resilient, and effective in a world where stability feels increasingly out of reach.
Drawing on careers in psychology, organizational science, and global consulting, Joy and Ian unpack why traditional change models no longer fit the moment. Today’s reality demands something different. Leaders must regulate their own energy, create stability for others, and guide organizations through uncertainty without pretending to have all the answers.
This conversation is a candid, deeply human look at what leaders are experiencing right now: fatigue, fragmentation, cognitive overload, and the pressure to perform amid ambiguity. More importantly, it offers a path forward.
In this episode, we explore:
If you’re navigating nonstop change — or leading others who are — this episode offers the clarity, grounding, and perspective needed to thrive. To learn more about how AIIR Consulting helps leaders strengthen resilience and lead through uncertainty, visit aiirconsulting.com.
What really determines whether a company thrives or unravels under pressure? According to John Touey, one of the country’s most trusted C-suite recruiters, it comes down to a single, often overlooked truth: the CEO, CFO, and CHRO form the power structure that governs the entire enterprise. If that trio isn’t aligned, nothing else works.
On this episode, AIIR Consulting CEO Dr. Jonathan Kirschner sits down with John — Managing Partner at Trilogy Talent Advisors and a masterful “C-suite whisperer” — to reveal what he’s seen across thousands of board conversations, CEO transitions, and high-stakes leadership searches. This conversation is a rare, behind-the-scenes look at what truly determines whether leaders succeed, stall, or never see the inside of the C-suite.
John breaks down how the CHRO role has transformed more in the past five years than in the previous fifty, how AI is reshaping the talent landscape in real time, and why behavior and culture fit are the ultimate predictors of executive success.
In this episode, we explore:
If you care about leadership, culture, or the future of work, this is an episode you can’t afford to miss. To learn more about how AIIR Consulting can help your leaders navigate change and shape a better future, visit aiirconsulting.com.
What does “human-first” leadership look like inside a company building the future of artificial intelligence? AIIR Consulting CEO Jonathan Kirschner and Joy Nissen sit down with Gideon Rosenberg — Deputy General Counsel and Head of HR for NVIDIA Israel — to explore how empathy and uncompromising standards can (and should) coexist.
Gideon offers a rare inside view into NVIDIA’s culture under CEO Jensen Huang, where people are empowered to “do their life’s work” and leadership begins with trust, not titles.
In this episode, we explore:
In this episode of A Podcast About Leadership, Dr. Jonathan Kirschner sits down with Reese Haydon to explore what it takes to lead with agility, curiosity, and care in today’s fast-moving world.
Reese's career has included senior talent management roles at some of the biggest companies in the tech industry, including Cisco, Dropbox, and Salesforce, among others.
Drawing from his extensive experience, Reese offers a rare, insider’s view into how leadership must evolve across different organizational contexts. He and Jonathan unpack what distinguishes exceptional leaders in high-growth environments, how to balance innovation with structure, and why care may be the defining leadership capability of the AI era.
Listeners will learn:
Reese also shares how he sees AI transforming leadership development, why hybrid intelligence (human + artificial intelligence) will shape the future of work, and how leaders can stay grounded amid disruption and paradox.
If you’re a leader, coach, or HR professional seeking to understand what great leadership looks like in an age of exponential change, this conversation will both challenge and inspire you.
Looking for more information about the leadership skills leaders need to succeed? Visit aiirconsulting.com.
For decades, executive coaching and psychotherapy have been treated as distinct disciplines — one focused on business performance, the other on unpacking unproductive patterns and personal healing. But, in recent years, the two have been creeping closer together. As they have, it has begged the question, are coaching and therapy really that different?
In this thought-provoking episode of A Podcast About Leadership, Dr. Jonathan Kirschner, clinical psychologist and CEO of AIIR Consulting, sits down with two of his fellow psychologists turned executive coaches, Dr. Joy Nissen and Dr. Davida Vogel, to explore how the worlds of clinical psychology and coaching increasingly overlap, how they strengthen one another, and why drawing a line between them actually matters.
Whether you’re a coach, psychologist, HR or talent leader, or simply curious about how psychology is reshaping leadership development, this episode offers research-based insights and real-world wisdom you can apply to your own growth— and the growth of those you lead.
In pharma, the barrier to progress isn’t usually the science—it’s how well leaders align brilliant, functionally deep experts to move an asset forward together. In this candid conversation, AIIR Consulting CEO Jonathan Kirschner sits down with Ian Wilcox (AIIR Advisory Board member; former Global Head of Life Sciences at HayGroup; executive advisor and investor) and Megan Marshall (Managing Partner, AIIR Consulting) to unpack what it really takes to lead in matrixed cross-functional teams—from early research through clinical, regulatory, manufacturing, medical affairs, and commercial.
Drawing on decades in the industry, Jonathan, Megan, and Ian explore why influence (not authority) is the #1 leadership skill in life sciences, why self-awareness is its essential counterpart, and how leaders make the identity shift from subject-matter expert to enterprise leader.
Key takeaways:
Want to learn more? You can download our whitepaper, Leadership's Critical Role in Cross-Functional Pharmaceutical Teams.
Fifty years ago, it wasn’t uncommon for someone to spend their entire career at a single company, with a clear career path and the resources and training programs to give them the skills they needed to advance along that path. Today, that world has largely disappeared. Organizations hire to meet their needs, employees move on quickly, and the bonds of loyalty have dissolved in both directions.
Few people understand this transformation better than Dr. Peter Cappelli. Peter is the bestselling author of Talent on Demand, The New Deal at Work, Our Least Important Asset, In Praise of the Office, and countless other books on talent management and people strategy. He is the George W. Taylor Professor of Management at the Wharton School, Director of its Center for Human Resources, and one of the most influential voices in human resources.
In our latest episode of A Podcast About Leadership, Dr. Cappelli joins hosts Dr. Jonathan Kirschner and Dr. Joy Nissen to unpack the evolving relationship between employers and employees. In this incredible conversation, we cover:
For CHROs and other senior talent professionals, this conversation is a candid look at the forces reshaping the future of work — and what it will take to design organizations that can thrive in the years to come.
In this episode of A Podcast About Leadership, Dr. Jonathan Kirschner, founder and CEO of AIIR Consulting, explores the mindset and skillset leaders need to navigateuncertainty. As volatility and complexity redefine the workplace, Kirschner challenges traditional notions of resilience and offers a modern, science-backed approach to navigating ambiguity with confidence. Drawing on AIIR’s proven leadership framework, he shares practical tools for self-regulation, emotional agility, and strategic decision-making under pressure. From managing high-performing teams in turbulent times to turning disruption into opportunity, this conversation equips leaders with the insight to stay grounded, adaptive, and impactful—no matter what lies ahead. Whether you're a senior executive, HR leader, or talent development professional, this episode offers timely, actionable guidance for leading through uncertainty with clarity and purpose.
Welcome to A Podcast About Leadership, brought to you by AIIR Consulting.
In today’s episode, AIIR Head of Team Effectiveness Dave Gloss speaks with Dean Bell, a leader in KPMG’s Deal Advisory and Strategy practice and a member of the company’s Board of Directors.
Dean has more than 20 years of experience and expertise leading M&As. In this conversation, he and Dave talk about he state of the market, what separates successful mergers and acquisitions from those that aren’t, and what it takes to combine two companies with different cultures.
This is the second episode in our skills series! In this series, we’ll explore the 45 skills represented in the AIIR Leadership Framework in 5 minutes or less, so that you can learn, then get back to leading. Today, we’re talking about a skill everyone could use more of: Self-Awareness.
Welcome to "A Podcast About Leadership," brought to you by AIIR Consulting. Each episode, our network of experts explores the challenges leaders face, and the skills they'll need to overcome them.
Dealing with change is nothing new for successful leaders. But over the past decade, the speed and severity of change has increased exponentially. The result? Nearly 70% of leaders report feeling overwhelmed by change. In this episode, we talk to Jamie Ramsden, an author, former CEO and senior executive coach about what it takes to lead in such a dynamic environment.
We also talk about Jamie’s new book, “Let’s Go! How Great Leaders Shape the Future,” which aims to empower executives and leaders to elevate their game, better understand themselves and their world, and live to their fullest potential―not for a few months or even a few years, but forever. Whether you're a seasoned executive or an emerging leader, this episode offers actionable advice and inspiring stories to elevate your leadership journey.
This is the first episode in our skills series! In this series, we’ll explore the 45 skills represented in the AIIR Leadership Framework in 5 minutes or less, so that you can learn, then get back to leading. Today, we’re starting with a skill identified by our 2024 Leadership Trends survey as one of the most important for leaders in the coming year: Self-Care.
Welcome to A Podcast About Leadership, brought to you by AIIR Consulting. Each episode, we talk to experts about the always-changing challenges leaders face, and the skills and support they need to overcome those challenges. In this episode, we delve into the transformative impact of Artificial Intelligence (AI) on leadership with data scientist, AI expert and author Dr. Bruce Katz.
AI has been around for a while. But over the past two years it has evolved at an unprecedented pace, upending the workplace with its ability to perform not only repetitive roles, but the analytical roles that previously seemed safe from technological advances. How is it changing what it means to lead?
With degrees in philosophy and a Ph.D. in Artificial Intelligence, and as the Chief Innovation Officer for AIIR Analytics, Bruce is the perfect person to help listeners understand how AI is changing how we select and develop leaders, and how it's changing the skills necessary to lead.
In this episode, Thom Fox is joined by Derek Lusk, Ph. D, Head of Executive Assessment at AIIR. In his role, Derek leverages his background in psychology and statistics to forecast success in top leadership roles. One of the aspects influencing a leader’s success is their ability to inspire and motivate others, which impacts employee engagement. According to the Gallup organization, in the United States 32% of full- and part-time employees are engaged, while 17% are actively disengaged. We delve into how the movement toward a decentralized workplace, accelerated by the advent of remote and hybrid opportunities, impacts employee engagement, as well as how this revolution has changed the mantle of leadership. Despite the challenges, there are ways to enhance engagement and build a culture with a strong sense of purpose, and Derek offers his thoughts and advice on how leaders can evolve to meet the trials ahead. If you’re working to build a more cohesive culture or build your leadership muscles to better engage a decentralized workforce, this episode offers perspective and actionable advice to get you started.
In this episode, we bring you an insightful conversation on the power of bringing teams together from AIIR Consulting’s Webinar Series. AIIR Head of Team Effectiveness Dave Gloss joins Carole Streicher, U.S. Deal Advisory and Strategy Leader at KPMG, to talk about why bringing teams together is the key to equipping them to succeed in an environment of constant change. From modest beginnings scooping ice cream to becoming the first woman to lead KPMG’s deal advisory and strategy group, a team of 2,300, Carole brings a wealth of experience and expertise to both her role and the conversation. Dave and Carole dig into the power of a great leadership team, and a leader’s role in creating conditions for their team’s success in uncertainty. If you’re working to build a more effective team, or leading people through change, this episode provides wonderful advice to get you grounded.
On our inaugural AIIRWaves Podcast, AIIR Heads Thom Fox and Stephanie Thomas welcome Gigi Gilliard for an insightful conversation about inclusive leadership, and how to get it right. As Gigi shares, her Ikigai [or sense of purpose] is helping to create belonging, and that is what she has been doing in her work as a trainer and executive coach. Gigi’s firsthand experiences with bias and discrimination shaped her approach to DEI and have guided organizations to embrace inclusive leadership. We discuss what exactly makes an inclusive leader, how to become one, and the benefits this approach brings to teams and organizations. Gigi and the rest of the AIIR team also touch on the pitfalls of taking a halfhearted approach to Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion efforts, and what happens when you get things wrong all together. If you’re working to build a more inclusive culture, or simply curious about what great inclusive leadership truly means, this episode is for you.