Ministry Wives Podcast: Recent Episodes
North American Mission Board
Being a ministry wife is a vocation without a job description… and let’s be honest — sometimes it seems like ministry might be easier if we did have one. If you are a ministry wife like me and are looking for hope, perspective, and a little bit of practical advice regarding your role, you’re in the right place. I’m Christine Hoover… welcome to The Ministry Wives Podcast, a production of the North American Mission Board. Join me as we hear from women in various ministry contexts for authentic conversations about our shared joys and challenges – even the ones we’re unsure we can talk about. No topic is off-limits. Let’s dive in.
In this Season 4 finale episode of the Ministry Wives Podcast, sit down with my husband Kyle Hoover and me for another Q & A episode. We wanted to give you more details following our episode with the Mandrells. We share about how God transformed our marriage during the COVID season, how that time served as a catalyst for my new book, as well as how God has been walking with us during our current trial with one of our children.
QUOTES“I would say we did push through, but at the same time I think we gave ourselves permission to not do some of the things that we normally would’ve done, and that’s okay. And, we pushed through with community. We had people who knew what we were going through and knew that we needed prayer and space and encouragement. We didn’t just push through isolated.”
-Christine Hoover
“I think what I enjoyed about the book is that it’s not just a fairytale; it’s a story of trusting the Lord in the midst and believing that God will take care of you and also call upon you to trust him and obey him. I appreciate that it wasn’t just a movie script kind of an ending where it’s ‘they all ended up being happy’. It’s a gritty story of faith and trust.”
-Kyle Hoover
“When I think about the prayers of God’s people for us and the care, it’s like a crowd surfing at a concert. I feel like we in some ways have probably even been protected from more suffering and pain because people have carried us through and lifted us and passed us along. I love that picture because that’s what it feels like. It feels like we’re being carried not just by people, but by the Lord.”
-Christine Hoover
LINKS FROM THE SHOWYou Are Not Forgotten
How We Love
Crosspoint Ministries
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Wisely navigating relationships between men and women is a vital but sometimes difficult conversation we need to be having with one another and our husbands. In this follow-up episode, long-time ministry wife and Ministry Wife Ministry Partner Amy Petersen helps walk us through the specifics of wisely cultivating these relationships. She stresses the importance of open communication regarding boundaries and how personality and baggage play into those boundaries. Amy and Christine also discuss the role of spiritual health and how it is critical to employing wisdom and discernment in this area.
SHOW NOTES Create boundaries that both you and your husband are comfortable with. * Assessing your spiritual health/maturity is critical for navigating these areas wisely. * If you do have concerns regarding a relationship, lay them out before the Lord and ask Him for wisdom and then have a conversation with your husband.*
QUOTES“There’s just really no set equation for how it should look. I think that it just needs to be customized based on what you’re comfortable with, as long as you’re healthy. That’s the other piece to this. Am I healthy? Is my husband healthy? Is this other person healthy? Healthiness is huge.”
-Amy Petersen
“I think sometimes in these situations, I might feel some things about somebody, but need to really discern, ‘Is this more of a me issue? Is this something going on with me or is this genuinely something I need to bring to my husband?’ I do think in general, if we have concerns, we should bring it to our husband, but we need to be very clear about what it is that we’re concerned about and what we’re requesting.”
-Christine Hoover
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Visit How to Thrive as a Pastor’s Wife to access Christine’s resources for ministry wives like you!
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The Lord gifts each of us and our spouses so differently, and sometimes those giftings require sacrifices of different kinds as we respond to the call of the Lord in a given season. Singer/songwriter Caroline Cobb joins me today to describe her husband’s volunteer position as a lay elder at their church and how she supports him and the local church through that ministry.
SHOW NOTES Though a lay elder is unpaid, their time is invaluable and vital to the health of the church. * As a lay elder’s wife, wisdom needs to be employed to balance supporting your husband as he counsels others but also maintaining privacy of those walking through trials. * You can support your elder husband and your church through consistent prayer.*
QUOTES“I think when he is sharing with me what he needs support in. So I might not know all the details of a marriage that’s falling apart or who it even is, but I know that there’s a marriage falling apart and that he’s ministering to them. He won’t share their story because that’s their story to tell me. And yet, at the same time, if he didn’t tell me about it at all, I wouldn’t be able to support him and care for him as a wife. So it’s a little bit of a dance and there’s a lot of wisdom that needs to happen there.”
-Caroline Cobb
“As I’m praying for him, this is part of the way I’m serving our church. There’s freedom to serve in so many different ways, but part of the way I’m serving our church is by serving and loving and supporting my husband.”
-Caroline Cobb
LINKS FROM THE SHOWAdvent for Exiles
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Walking into a church for the first time can be a very scary experience for newcomers. Sometimes it feels just as scary for us to approach and invite them into our circle. Pastor’s wife, author, and podcaster Jen Oshman shares her practical tips for creating a culture of welcome within the church. Jen tells us how welcome helped draw her to Christ, reminds us who Jesus says our primary family truly is, and encourages us to embrace the awkward in welcome culture.
SHOW NOTES Treat those who are alone or new in your church with urgency. Stop what you’re doing and intentionally draw them in. * Ask God during the week, “Who do you want me to have eyes to see this Sunday?” * Set a tone of welcome among the leaders in your church, and make the hard choice to choose welcoming newcomers over spending time with friends on Sundays.*
QUOTES“Welcome is so much more than a greeting. I need to genuinely go toward people and welcome them not just to Sunday morning, but maybe to my home after church, maybe to another small group leader’s home, maybe to a women’s Bible study. How can I take that extra step to go beyond Sunday morning and welcome them at least initially somehow into my life and into my circle?”
-Jen Oshman
“I think we have lost a vision for our primary family being the family of God, our primary eternal siblings, mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles. It’s not actually our biological family or our nuclear family, but HIS primary family. Our primary family is those who walk with Jesus, those who follow him.”
-Jen Oshman
“It’s just going to be awkward, and that’s okay.”
-Jen Oshman
LINKS FROM THE SHOWWelcome: Loving Your Church by Making Space for Everyone
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We live in a broken world full of pain and suffering. We are bound to suffer trauma and grief; how do we navigate that pain as believers? Pastor’s wife, writer and podcaster Danielle Kelly joins the show today to share how God invited her into biblical lament as a lifestyle and how choosing to trust God’s character in the process transformed her life and relationship with Him.
SHOW NOTES Biblical lament is more than crying aloud with your grief; it’s grieving with a purpose that draws you into deeper trust in God. * On the other side of entering lament with Jesus is beauty, joy, and new growth. * Embrace lament as a lifestyle that will ebb and flow throughout your life. Make space for it whenever it arrives.*
QUOTES“One of the things that God started to show me is that lament is beautiful because I was scared of it. I said ‘Okay, I see you inviting me into this, but I feel like it’s a dark pit that I can’t see the other side of, and I don’t know what’s at the bottom of that pit.’ But Jesus is on the other side and He has lament with a purpose, our lament is not empty. He’s a savior that knows lament well and His invitation is not something He hasn’t walked through Himself.”
-Danielle Kelly
“When you sit in the darkness of lament with the Lord and allow Him to comfort you, to minister to you, to speak to you…then He starts to water you. Then all of a sudden beauty comes out of it and you are able to sing. You are able to worship, you are able to have a different perspective, but it has to go through a process of sitting in the darkness and feeling all the feelings and being there.”
-Danielle Kelly
LINKS FROM THE SHOWDark Clouds Deep Mercy
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On this special episode of the Ministry Wives Podcast, Christine hands the microphone over to Lynley and Ben Mandrell as special guest hosts. Christine and Kyle open up about a very vulnerable time in their life and marriage, the lessons God taught them, and the book that was born out of that season, “You Are Not Forgotten,” out April 23.
QUOTES“I think the main thing I learned was that God really does see me, and that’s why I wrote this book. These truths are holding me now as we’re going through a whole different season of suffering. I have not doubted God in our current suffering because I know what He did for me when I felt so buried, He saw me and He pulled me out.”
-Christine Hoover
“One thing I learned in that time was that I often thought about ministry as outside of my home, meaning other people that are not in my family. I thought of my kids as part of my ministry, but I rarely thought about Kyle as my ministry, and we just did not carve out time for one another. But I look back now and I see that we were giving of ourselves to everyone else except for one another, and we had to carve out some extensive time to work through these things and to come back together. I would say we haven’t just come back together, but we have a new marriage and a healthier marriage, a happier marriage.”
-Christine Hoover
“I think in marriage, you can just keep going on cruise control. I think having times of dedicated work towards, what are those repeated conflict points that we have? What are the things that keep popping up? Who do we want to be as a married couple moving into the future? What are our blind spots? We need to be intentional with our time and energy to realize that our marriage needs that kind of attention as well.”
-Kyle Hoover
LINKS FROM THE SHOWYou Are Not Forgotten
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In theory, we should always desire to serve God in ministry to honor and obey him, but in practice, we may sometimes find ourselves struggling with our motivations in ministry. We struggle with what we think we “should” do, wanting to please others, even wanting recognition for our service. Pastor’s wife Krissie Inserra shares how God has worked on the motivations of her heart in the last 16 years of their Tallahassee church plant. Krissie explains how God has taught her who He created her to be and how she recognizes the different seasons of life God has placed her. She also shares the importance of frequent heart checks, ridding her heart of glory-seeking motivations.
SHOW NOTES Don’t fall prey to people pleasing behaviors. Ask God how He has gifted you and serve in those areas. * Be aware of what season you are in. You may be called to operate in a lot of ministry in church or you may be called to operate in ministry heavily within your home. * Regularly check your heart. Prideful motivations of wanting to be known can creep up unexpectedly.*
QUOTES“If I’m really honest with myself, my motivation can sometimes be so that my name is out there. Why? I don’t know. Because that’s just our human nature. We want to be known. I have to check myself on that all the time.”
-Krissie Inserra
“Those of you just starting in this, you’re probably going to make mistakes and maybe do too much or not do enough and then realize, ‘I’m not going to do that again.’ Ministry is a lot of learning as you go and learning from your mistakes. Praise God that He is a gracious God who forgives and who is bigger than our mistakes.”
-Krissie Inserra
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God calls us to serve in so many different ministry contexts. Sometimes we’ll be called to serve in large spaces with hundreds of people, and sometimes God calls us into small environments with less than 10. Church planting wife Wendy Ortiz shares her experiences serving in small churches both in the US and Puerto Rico. She explains the joys and challenges of small environments, including God’s work in her heart regarding letting go of control.
SHOW NOTES Small churches allow a family-like atmosphere as well as an unearthing of gifts that may be overlooked in larger churches. * Don’t fall into the comparison trap. God will decide how big He wants your church to be. Focus on being a faithful steward. * Encourage your husband, celebrate every victory, and be intentional about connecting with other church planting wives.*
QUOTES“What would I say to myself? God is going to do what He wants to do. Don’t worry. Just be obedient, do what He calls you to do and help your husband and don’t be an obstacle for him.”
-Wendy Ortiz
“We are a family, so we know each other very well. We may have misunderstandings because our sin always goes out, but it’s just us. It’s just us. We work things together as a family and we can be the church. It’s very personal. It’s very straightforward. The discipleship is more personal as well.”
-Wendy Ortiz
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As believers and ministry wives, we will experience times of spiritual dryness, times where we struggle to experience the truth of God’s presence in our daily lives, times where our spiritual walk feels stagnant and emotionless. We live in a world full of distraction and fatigue; the battle to focus on Christ is ever present.
Author, mother, and pastor’s wife Kristen Wetherell has experienced times of spiritual dryness in her own walk and joins us today to share her story. Kristen shines light on some symptoms of spiritual dryness to be on the alert for, as well as how to navigate those seasons with Christ and community at the forefront.
SHOW NOTES In times of spiritual dryness, choose community and confession rather than shame and isolation. * Symptoms of the beginnings of spiritual dryness can include distraction, discouragement, physical fatigue, ministry burnout, or temptation engagement. * Discipline and desire go hand in hand. The more we discipline ourselves spiritually, the more we begin to desire God.*
QUOTES“In seasons of spiritual dryness, you will be tempted toward shame and isolation when what will be most helpful for you is to choose community and confession because those things bring freedom.”
-Kristen Wetherell
“It’s weird to think about discipline and desire, but I really think they go hand in hand. Sometimes the desire is there and our hearts are just a flame for the Lord. Sometimes it’s a discipline, and sometimes it’s both. But I think if we’re disciplined, we can sit back and wait on the Lord to renew the desire. But if we’re not disciplined about it, it’s going to be really hard for that desire to have any space to grow when the Lord turns it on again.”
-Christine Hoover
LINKS FROM THE SHOWHelp For the Hungry Soul
Front Row Seat
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There is no escaping the reality that women within our church will experience the loss of their spouse at some point in their lives. The Bible instructs us to take care of widows, but how do we practically live that out? Melissa Swain lost her pastor husband Chris unexpectedly in 2021 and joins the podcast to tell her story. Melissa shares how specific help, inclusion, and an admission of the hard has helped her and her children navigate in their new world.
SHOW NOTES Try to be specific in your offers of help (mowing the lawn, picking up groceries) rather than asking “What can I do for you?” * Even though they might not always be able to attend or give input, continue providing opportunities for fellowship and ministry as you did before. * When you don’t know what to say, don’t avoid reaching out. It’s okay to simply say, “I love you and I don’t know what to say.”*
QUOTES“I understand the statistic that 50% of widows leave their church. Their person that they walk in with, sit with, go to classes with, do all the things with is not there anymore. So that makes it really difficult to continue to be involved in the same context with the same people around you, but you’re not the same anymore.”
-Melissa Swain
“A lot of times, it is easy to feel forgotten because most people assume, ‘Oh, after the first year, you’re fine. Everything’s good. You’ve done all the first things.’ And that’s kind of the mentality of a lot of people surrounding widowhood. You’ve done the firsts. Everything else will be easy. The second Father’s day was harder than the first one. Everything new that my kids do is a first. Sometimes it’s really easy to be in a room and feel like no one knows how hard it is to be there just to be there.”
-Melissa Swain
LINKS FROM THE SHOWWrite It on Their Hearts
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Sometimes unmet expectations seem to pop up everywhere in our lives. We experience hardship or failure in life and ministry over and over again. Today, author and pastor’s wife Lisa Hughes teaches us how to reshape our thinking regarding unmet expectations. She shares that we need to not only expect the hard things, but also accept that the Lord is always doing what seems good to Him. We can find joy in the hardship while drawing closer to Jesus when faced with unmet expectations, choosing to obey Him even when it’s hard.
SHOW NOTES Identifying an unmet expectation often means identifying a sin in your heart where you’re not thinking rightly about God or what He’s doing in your life. * Reshaping our thinking means letting the Lord do what seems good to Him and aligning our thoughts to match Scripture. * You have to decide how to respond to unmet expectations: with despair or with belief and obedience to God.*
QUOTES“It is the Lord, let Him do what seems good to Him. He’s given me this little incubator, this little pressure cooker time, this little hard thing because it’s not only good for her, but it’s really good for me. How do I need to think about what God has given to not try to escape it? I think a lot of times what we try to do is escape those hard things.“
-Lisa Hughes
“Sometimes in the waiting times, our hearts just get so stretched, so thin, it’s really painful and it can be so discouraging. We need to believe just like David, that God is good and that He will provide good things for us along the way as He causes us to wait.”
-Lisa Hughes
LINKS FROM THE SHOWAnchor Bible Church
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Life in a parachurch ministry often looks very different from life in other ministries, but the goal is always the same: live as a minister of the gospel. Rachel Shelton and her husband were called to minister full time at TBarM Camps in Texas. Rachel describes the joys and challenges of camp life, and how her family focuses on doing life with others as they point them to Christ.
SHOW NOTES Camp ministry allows campers to experience God in a unique environment where everyone is living outside their normal life. * Life at camp allows leadership to teach college students about pouring into others even when they feel completely empty. * No matter what ministry you serve in, strive to integrate the different areas of your life. You are called to minister the gospel everywhere.*
QUOTES“We’re learning to be who we are as we relate to the students and share what the Lord is doing. They’re not looking for people older than them to try to connect and be real young and hip. They’re just looking for people who are going to point them to Christ. And we do our best to try to do that as we try to do that for ourselves.”
-Rachel Shelton
“I think whatever role in ministry we’re in, we strive for integration. So as we are connecting with others, whether that’s camp ministry or church ministry or parachurch missions ministry is just letting people in our lives and not separating out, work, ministry, school. It’s all integrated.”
-Rachel Shelton
LINKS FROM THE SHOWTBarM Camp
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Ministry often stretches us to grow in ways we never imagined, some that are hard but many that can bring us deep joy. Raising children in a completely different culture for missions is no different. Missionary wife, author, and podcaster Keri Folmar joins me to shine light on the joys she experienced raising missionary children. She shares how God used their upbringing on a different continent to teach them about hospitality towards all and the unity that comes from Christ alone.
SHOW NOTES No matter what culture the Lord calls you to, parenting has joys and challenges. Embrace both and lean on Him. * One of the greatest joys in missions is allowing your children to see the unity that comes from Christ, not from culture. * The most important thing your children can see is you living for Christ and loving Him above all else, not living for your ministry.*
QUOTES“The thing with being in a church like this, we don’t have any culture to unite us, but we’re united in the Lord Jesus Christ. We are united sitting under the Word being preached, and we’re united in our love for Jesus. Our children saw that. They saw these deep relationships with people who didn’t look like us, who didn’t act like us in many ways, who didn’t dress like us, but they saw these deep relationships and they had relationships with people like that as well.”
-Keri Folmar
“Live for Christ, not for your ministry. I think that’s important for both husband and wife. If you live for Christ and you love Christ, your ministry will come out of that. But if you are living for ministry, it really becomes idolatry and you hold on. But if you are living for Christ, they see that you love Him above all, and they see that your love for them flows out of your love for Christ.”
-Keri Folmar
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Clint and Jennifer Clifton spent their lives planting churches as well as pouring themselves into training and encouraging planters and their wives all over the globe. Jennifer joins the podcast to talk about the legacy of her late husband and how she sees the Lord opening opportunities for her to continue to encourage ministry wives just like us. Jennifer also shares her unique perspective on helping marriage and family thrive within the framework of full-time ministry.
QUOTES“What our roles are depends on what season we’re in. If we’ve got a bunch of little kids, it’s really hard to be super involved, but if your kids are older, it may be a little easier. Our roles change with seasons. It’s important for church planter wives to recognize that and be encouraged in that. And husbands need to recognize that about their wives and help them recognize what seasons they’re in and how they best can be used in that season.”
-Jennifer Clifton
“We just involved our kids in all the ministry things that we did, and so they got to see it. We told them, ‘This is what God wants. This is what God has said. This is what the Bible says.’ We were actively showing them those things, not just Mom and Dad saying them.”
-Jennifer Clifton
LINKS FROM THE SHOWThe Praetorian Project
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Finding your place in ministry as a pastor’s wife or ministry wife can leave you feeling frustrated and stuck. You might feel constrained by expectations in your church, confused about where you are being called, or feeling stuck because a role you used to fulfill is no longer needed. Pastor’s wife and podcaster Angie Brown Elkins joins me today to share how she has reinvented herself in ministry over the years and how changing her thoughts around “calling” has allowed her to always find ways to serve God.
SHOW NOTES* Sometimes finding your place means saying “yes” to God, even if it means reinventing yourself and starting something new. * Your calling is ultimately to make disciples and love your neighbors. There is always a way to minister in those areas. * If you feel stuck, challenge yourself to do something you’ve never done before and commit to it.
QUOTES“God will let you serve him if you will just say yes to whatever He’s asking, and maybe it will look completely different at times. You just have to be willing to let go of your idea of what it’s going to look like. If you want to serve Him, you can.”
-Angie Brown Elkins
“I’ve rethought my language around calling because really if this is my calling, if this is what God has called me to do, and man can stop it, is it really of God? So what I realized was our calling is not necessarily to a place or a person or even an exact thing, but it’s more to the things that all of us are called to as believers: making disciples, loving God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength, loving our neighbors ourselves. Those are our callings, and we can do those in lots of different ways.”
-Angie Brown Elkins
Links from the ShowThe Glass House
Let It Shine
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As ministry wives, it’s far too easy to put ourselves inside a glass bubble with expectations that God does not desire for us. First and foremost, God calls us to be faithful Christians and church members. Pastor’s wife Jeanine Sanchez shares how she teaches other ministry wives to examine the motivations behind their internal and external expectations, focusing on God’s intentions for them in ministry, and how to walk in the inevitable disappointment of others.
SHOW NOTES* Examine internal and external expectations through prayer and intentionality, asking God to reveal the true intentions of your heart, always seeking the counsel of your husband. * There will be seasons where God’s expectations will stretch you beyond comfort, but He won’t keep you there forever. * People will have unmet expectations of you. Disciple them by responding with humility and help them think rightly.
QUOTES“At the end of it, you can’t be all things to all people. Think back to the Messiah complex. You are one person. You are not like God, you are finite. Know your limitations and disciple your congregation to see you as a normal church member.”
-Jeanine Sanchez
“Remember that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. The Lord delights in those who fear him. So always thinking, ‘Okay, Lord, what do you think about me? What do you think about how I handled this situation?’ And then just pray, we have to have a heart attitude of prayer. ‘Lord, how do you want me to change? How do you want me to view this person?'”
-Jeanine Sanchez
LINKS FROM THE SHOWUpcoming Book Release
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It can be difficult to fully understand the life of a pastor’s wife without being a pastor’s wife. But understanding this role can help us not only be more compassionate with one another as ministry wives, but also show us how we can better serve one another. Caroline Saunders has been a pastor’s wife for the last 14 years and shares with us the difficulties, the joys, and even some of the hilarious moments she’s encountered along the way.
SHOW NOTES* Pastors’ wives have to learn to endure and persevere in building up the church even when they don’t agree with the decisions being made by their husbands or the elders. * Relationships are harder to navigate because of the nature of their husband’s job and the complexities that go along with the areas of overlap. * Bless your pastor’s wife by asking God to help you see ways that she is unseen, and encourage her in those areas.
QUOTES“This is the thing that’s teaching me faithfulness, the beauty of the body of Christ and how I must not let secondary issues create a wedge between my husband or between my brothers and sisters at church. Those preferences can be really tough to tangle with and people assume we’ve signed off on all things in the church in total agreement. But there’s something good that happens in my heart over time, having to lay down whatever I perceive my rights are and see the fellowship flourish. It’s not because we’re all on the same page about the sermon series or everything, but because of faithfulness.”
-Caroline Saunders
“If someone is looking to encourage their pastor’s wife, I would say to find ways to see them or ask God to show you ways to see them, because there’s probably an area where they feel very alone and unseen. There may be a really practical way to minister in that place.”
-Caroline Saunders
Links from the ShowBetter Than Life
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When Covid hit, none of us could have imagined how far reaching its effects would be, nor for how long we would be grappling with the various issues raised by its influence in our lives. Toronto Send Relief Ministry Centre Director and church planter’s wife Kimberley McGibbon shares how Covid forever changed her life and ministry. She explains how God used Covid to return her identity to Christ, pushed her to reach out to others amidst isolation, and opened her eyes to the new opportunities for discipleship within her city.
SHOW NOTES* Isolation is deadly. Humble yourself and be willing to be welcomed by other ministry wives for much needed love and support. * Allow yourself to grieve when people leave, but take that grief to Jesus. He knows better than anyone what it’s like to be left. * Covid has made unchurched people question life like never before. The harvest is ripe for the church to minister in their cities!
QUOTES“In the past 20 years, lots of times people have left for different reasons. Some of them have really hurt and it is hard to still keep living open handed, but I think we have to go to Jesus with those things. He above everybody else knows what it’s like to have people leave you in the middle of a very terrible time. His friends left him on the cross, Peter denied him. If anyone is going to understand it’s going to be Jesus.”
-Kimberley McGibbon
“There are losses behind us, and those years were hard years, but if anything, they refined us. They refined our faith, they refined our focus in ministry, and if we have eyes to see it, there are a whole lot of opportunities before us. And we may be doing it a little bit differently than we were doing it before, but maybe that’s good.”
-Christine Hoover
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In its most basic form, Women’s Ministry isn’t about fancy events or complicated Bible studies; it’s about meeting women’s needs where they are. Lifeway Women’s Ministry Specialist Kelly King shares how we can create a lifestyle of women’s ministry that helps get women in the Word, providing encouragement and creating a deeply desired community. Kelly also gives us some practical ideas for troubleshooting challenges that may arise, along with basic leadership principles to help us grow as ministry wives in leadership.
SHOW NOTES* Successful women’s ministries are centered on God’s Word and create an atmosphere of friendship and authenticity. * When trying to start a new women’s ministry, look at the needs of the women in your church and community. How can you encourage them and lead them towards Jesus? * If you are willing to listen to feedback, the Lord can help change you to love and lead others better.
QUOTES“Number one, women need encouragement. So start there. How are we encouraging women, but also how are we calling them to embrace who Christ is through their relationship and through intimacy in His word? And then how do we echo His heart for the world? God’s word gets in us, but it changes us and there needs to be an outward expression of that.”
-Kelly King
“We are all wired very differently, and God has made us so unique. So don’t look at another leader and feel like ‘I’m just not like her.’ Walk in the person, the woman that God has created you to be. Don’t compare, be you. Because when you’re you, then that’s the best you can give someone else.”
-Kelly King
Links from the ShowScarlet Hiltibidal: Ashamed
Lifeway Women Academy
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Love one another. Serve one another. The New Testament is full of commandments instructing us to engage in relationships with one another, including those of the opposite sex. The church must battle against the lie that men and women cannot operate as friends and recover brother-sister relationships within the body of Christ. Close friends and colleagues Jen Wilkin and JT English share today how their friendship is based on mutual respect and trust, the importance of spiritual maturity in this area, and how the church can become stronger and more effective by embracing biblical male/female friendships.
SHOW NOTES* We need to recover friendship between brothers and sisters in the church, encouraging one another, celebrating each other, and elevating one another’s gifts. * Biblical friendship is dependent upon trust, respect, and spiritual maturity. * Continue to offer the hand of friendship even in spaces where you don’t feel entirely welcome.
QUOTES“The lie that has been told to a generation, not just of pastors but of people, is that any intense feeling or strong feeling for another person, whether same sex or opposite sex, must have a sexual or romantic tone to it. The Bible says something very different. It uses the term one another over and over and over again in the New Testament.”
-Jen Wilkin
“What if we were credited for creating friends and brothers and sisters and just celebrating each other? I mean, when you do it, it’s so freeing and rewarding when you just look another human in the eye and celebrate and encourage them. This isn’t just a gender thing. This is a human thing.”
-JT English
Links from the ShowYou are a Theologian
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Churches all over the world are dying and God longs to see His churches revitalized, brought back to life, thriving as lights for the Kingdom. But along with the excitement of revitalization can come burnout from the intense emotional, physical, spiritual, and mental work of revitalization. Today, Andrea Valenti shares how she has walked through the highs of revitalization and the lows of burnout, learning to ask others for help and asking Jesus to revitalize her heart.
SHOW NOTES* Revitalization requires patience, active listening, and meeting people where they are. * Burnout can look like numbness, mental and physical fatigue, irritated responses, and a feeling of being overwhelmed. * Try to prevent burnout through healthy boundaries and habits, but if it hits, seek counsel from other ministry wives and resources like the SEND Network.
QUOTES“Part of the issue is that sometimes there’s so much stigma in discussing the reality of burnout and other mental health concerns. There’s almost this idea of, there’s going to be judgment. If I share that I’ve been burnt out before in ministry, people are going to think that I am somehow less spiritual or less than, or there’s some kind of glaring sin issue that caused that.”
-Andrea Valenti
“You’re not alone. The statistics say at least half of people serving in ministry or other helping professionals are experiencing burnout or have experienced burnout. I think normalizing the fact that it is happening is really important for people to realize that it’s not just you. You’re not the only person. This isn’t a deficit about you, this is about the season and maybe a mismatch of priorities and ways that you’re serving.”
-Andrea Valenti
Links from the ShowSEND Network
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Life as a church planter is rewarding and encouraging, but also spiritually, emotionally, and physically exhausting. It’s easy to completely burn out when we aren’t intentionally engaging in the rest Jesus commands us to take. Vance and Kristie Pitman share today how God brought them into a season of forced rest. What they found on the other side was trust in Jesus’ work in His church, stronger family rhythms, and freedom.
SHOW NOTES* Rest is as spiritual as work and a command that comes from Jesus Himself. * Ask trusted believers to be gatekeepers in your life, protecting you from over-committing and forcing you to take times of rest. * The primary call on our lives is not ministry; it’s intimacy with Jesus.
QUOTES“We had to learn that rest is as spiritual as work. Jesus told the disciples to ‘Come away with me and rest for a while.’ In the Greek language, it’s an imperative, meaning rest is a matter of spiritual obedience.”
-Vance Pitman
“The primary call on our lives is intimacy and ministry is what He does out of the overflow of intimacy. Too many times we think Jesus saved us so we could do something for Him, but He actually saved us because He wants to be with us and then He wants to do something through us.”
-Vance Pitman
LINKS FROM THE SHOWThe Stressless Life
CONNECTConnect Vance and Kristie
SEND Network
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The enemy hates any ministry that seeks to increase the kingdom of God. How do we recognize when we are in spiritual warfare, and how do we practically fight against it? James and Desiree Westbrook, planters of The Realm Church in Oakland, California experience immense spiritual warfare every day. They share with us how they battle warfare with Christ’s love, truth, and a right perspective, remaining dedicated to preaching the gospel no matter how the enemy attacks.
SHOW NOTES* Spiritual warfare is anything designed by the enemy that seeks to derail, discourage, or destroy. * Shift your perspective past what’s directly in front of you. There is a correlation between suffering and greatness in the kingdom of God. * Fight warfare by gathering to pray, filling your mind with encouraging spiritual content, and intentionally taking time to rest.
QUOTES“We have to be reminded that there is a correlation between suffering and service that leads to greatness in the kingdom of God. So when we are going through seasons where it’s difficult, the temptation is to say it’s because of this physical thing or that physical thing. But really, there’s something behind it and a right perspective tells us to expect suffering if we’re going to be considered great in the kingdom.”
-James Westbrook
“Be ready. The enemy wants nothing more than to divide and conquer, to bring about discouragement. Look at all the readiness language in Ephesians 6, ‘be on guard, be alert, be ready.’ Paul uses all this language because he wants you to be ready for what will come. Not if it comes, it will come.”
-James Westbrook
Links from the ShowRealm Church
The Meaning of Marriage
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In honor of Hispanic Heritage Month, this episode of the Ministry Wives podcast is being released completely in Spanish. Send Network Español is a branch of the North American Mission Board’s church planting ministry, Send Network. This ministry resources and helps support Spanish speaking church plants all over North America. Today’s episode features four Spanish speaking ministry wives sharing their heart for the Lord and their communities.
If you are a Spanish speaker, this episode is for you! If you are not, I encourage you to listen to the first few minutes, praising God for His mighty work in reaching every tribe and tongue and lifting up prayers for our sisters who are serving in Spanish speaking ministries.
Conmemorando el Mes de la Herencia Hispana, este episodio del pódcast Ministry Wives ha sido lanzado completamente en español. Send Network Español es una rama del ministerio de plantación de iglesias de la North American Mission Board, Send Network. Este ministerio provee recursos y apoya las plantaciones de iglesias de habla hispana por todo Norte América. El episodio de hoy presenta a cuatro esposas de de plantadores de habla hispana quienes comparten su corazón por el Señor y sus comunidades.
Si hablas español, ¡este episodio es para ti! Alabemos a Dios por su obra maravilosa de alcanzar a cada tribu y lengua, oremos por nuestras hermanas que sirven en ministerios de habla hispana.
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Seeds of bitterness can grow in our hearts for a myriad of reasons. Our own insecurities, criticisms, and the sheer volume of tasks that need to be completed can harden our hearts towards those we’ve been called to serve. We can even be tempted to harden our hearts towards God in the midst of difficult ministry seasons. Author and Discipleship Director Amy Gannett shares the work God has done in her heart, teaching her to humble herself before Him and softening her heart for others and the work of ministry.
SHOW NOTES* The enemy is the number one reason there is a fight against bitterness. He wants your heart to harden. * God wants your heart to be tender, so pray confidently that He will soften it! * When practicing forgiveness feels unfair, remember that God knows your story and fights for you and that you are held in the nail-pierced hand of a Savior who knows what you are feeling.
QUOTES“So much of the weight we bear on our shoulders and carry in our hearts in ministry is unseen. Part of that is God’s call to bear with holy reverence the lives, discipleship, situations and people that have been entrusted to us in ministry. That is a holy weight. These conversations in our head and the ungenerous interpretations, that is unholy weight and it makes the whole load so much heavier. When we submit and say, ‘God, you’re at work when I can’t see it and I’m going to trust that you’re working in this person’s life,’ that actually takes so much of the unholy load off our shoulders because ministry is heavy enough. I don’t need my own sin tendencies added onto it.”
-Amy Gannet
LINKS FROM THE SHOWTiny Theologians
Biblestudyschoolhouse.com
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Sinful comparison and competition can creep quickly into our hearts when we aren’t focused on Jesus. It’s easy to look at what other women are doing (or even what our husband is doing) and begin to compare what is “lacking” in our own life and ministry. On today’s episode, pastor’s wife Carla Sibley explains how God has taught her to shut down the world and turn her eyes on Jesus, refusing to give a foothold to the division that comparison and competition create.
SHOW NOTES * Put on blinders towards the world, turn your eyes on Jesus, and ask Him to give you new eyes for your life.
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There’s no comparison or competition in God’s eyes. He has specifically gifted you and placed you where He can use you.
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Combat competition with transparency and by cheering other believers on in their ministries.
QUOTES “What was purchased for me through Christ is so much more than anything earthly, anything temporary. So I don’t have to cling to those things I think I need or want, the accomplishments or the recognition. But sometimes we forget that we don’t have to have those things. So I just look to Jesus, spend more time in the Word, spend more time thinking about Him and listening to things that will draw my heart to Him.”
-Carla Sibley
“Make a decision. Do you want to be an instrument in the hand of the enemy for the destruction of the kingdom? Or do you want to be an instrument in the hand of God for the building up of His kingdom? It’s a decision we must make every single time the comparison thought pops in our head. Repent and turn from it continually. The more we exercise that muscle of gratitude and humility, the more we’ll be able to do this. It’ll come quicker each time.”
-Carla Sibley
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When we look around our communities, we so often see the suffering of those living in poverty and homelessness. The fear of not knowing what to do frequently keeps us from doing anything. Cassie Hammett, Executive Director of The Hub Urban Ministries, shares how Jesus radically changed her heart for those in distress in her city. She explains how we can engage in our own communities, building friendships, meeting needs and allowing God to steer our ministries.
SHOW NOTES* Radical ministry can start when you allow Jesus to radically transform your heart. * The fuel of community ministry is friendship. Once you know someone, you will better know what their needs are and how to meet them. * Remove fear from encounters with those in need by taking practical steps to be prepared.
QUOTES“I think what keeps people from engaging with individuals in different socioeconomic levels is that there’s an assumption of, ‘We are so different. There’s this chasm between me and her.’ We also make a lot of assumptions, ‘Well he’s in this situation because he did X, Y, Z or has a mental illness.’ We have all of these predetermined ideas that create a lot of fear but the truth is that there isn’t that big of a chasm. Most of the time the difference is just material.”
-Cassie Hammett
“Our job is to pick up people’s mats and do our very best to get them to Jesus. But the reality is, it’s His job to heal. It’s his job to heal people and it’s the people in need of healing’s responsibility to take ownership of that and to receive it. We can’t do either of those. So I have to remind myself consistently, ‘I’m a mat carrier.’ If that person is not receiving help, that’s not my job. I did the very best I could do. I physically got involved and did everything in my power to clear the path between them and restoration. The rest is up to Jesus and them to receive it.”
-Cassie Hammett
LINKS FROM THE SHOWThe Hub Ministry
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If we want to reach the culture around us with the good news of Jesus, we must first understand that culture and the motivations of those who live in it. Author Trevin Wax joins the podcast to explain how we as ministry wives can learn about the specific culture around us, enabling us to connect with and draw others to Christ.
SHOW NOTES * As you get to know someone, ask deeper questions that help you understand how they narrate their life, where their desires lie, and what drives their anxiety.
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We must be reaching into the culture while building a strong culture within our homes and churches to invite others into.
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We are all leaders; we have all been given a sphere of influence. Determine what your sphere is and be intentional with how you cultivate it.
QUOTES “Sometimes we think of culture as something out there that we are to engage with. But we don’t recognize that we are to make and create culture in our own families and churches. That in itself is a really powerful way of demonstrating the beauty of the gospel for people to see.”
-Trevin Wax
“Start with observations, and then move forward over time to the bigger life story questions. It may be on the surface at the beginning, but the more you talk with someone, the more you’ll have opportunities to be able to see how they plot the trajectory of their life and that’s really where you have the openings for gospel conversations.”
-Trevin Wax
“If you are in the church and you’re listening to this podcast, you are a leader in your church and you need to lean into that and recognize that God has given you a sphere of influence.”
-Trevin Wax
LINKS FROM THE SHOW New Churches
Love Thy Body
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Life as a ministry wife doesn’t always look like radical revivals. Often it’s staying home while your husband leaves to minister to others or answers nonstop phone calls that interrupt family time. Unless you’re constantly lifting your eyes heavenward, it can be difficult to see eternal reward in the daily grind. Grace VanMaanen joins me today to share how prayer, intentionality, and a heavenly perspective protect her from bitterness as a ministry wife.
EPISODE GUIDE * Praying for one another creates intimacy, even when physically separated.
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Be intentional about talking with your spouse about one another’s needs, both at home and apart.
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Use the time that your spouse is doing ministry to engage in kingdom work of your own.
BEST QUOTES “I think that’s what we forget: there is eternal blessing in the sacrifice. It’s that John 12:24 principle of a kernel of wheat falls to ground and dies and it produces many seeds. There’s fruit that’s born from that death, Christ being the perfect example of that. But I feel like for a wife, we don’t always recognize that sacrifice. There’s a death in our time, even in the comforts and pleasures of having your husband around. And in that death, we often forget that there is blessing. There’s an eternal reward.”
-Grace VanMaanen
“You’ve had intentional conversations with your husband, and then you’re intentional with your time when your husband is called away. You’re using that time to serve where the Lord has you. I think that can apply to any situation for husband and wife: be intentional about your decisions. For wives who feel like they’re sharing their husband with the church and starting to become resentful instead, maybe flip it on its head and say, ‘This is giving me time and opportunity to do something of my own.'”
-Christine Hoover
LINKS FROM THE SHOW Vintage Mission
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Being a ministry wife is a vocation without a job description. So often, we know exactly what our husband’s roles will be within the church, but are uncertain about how we should be operating daily in our ministry roles. Tara Dew, Director of Thrive, a training program for ministry wives at New Orleans Seminary, joins me today to discuss the importance of being a lifelong learner and the joy that comes from learning to thrive.
EPISODE GUIDE* If God is encouraging you to pursue training, trust Him, even if you don’t know what the end result will be. * Dedicate yourself to being a lifelong learner: utilize resources that help you thrive in the ministry God placed you. * You are gifted and indispensable, essential to the work of the church.
BEST QUOTES“I believe wholeheartedly that if we can encourage and equip ministry wives, then they’re going to help encourage their husbands, and their husbands will stay in ministry and the churches will stay as lighthouses in their communities.”
-Tara Dew
“You never know what God will do, so just trust Him in the process. If He is encouraging you to study or pursue something, trust Him. Even if you don’t know what the end result would be. So often we just need to be reminded that God is doing a work in us. We just need to be faithful to do what He’s called us to do. In His time, He makes it all make sense. He is writing this amazing story for our lives that we never, ever dreamed.”
-Tara Dew
“God loves you. God knows every part of your past. He knows every insecurity and weakness that you have, but He loves you. He doesn’t make mistakes. He didn’t make a mistake to call you and your husband together. He did not make a mistake in calling you to serve a local church. He knows exactly who you are. He sees exactly who you are and He loves you.”
-Tara Dew
LINKS FROM THE SHOWThrive and New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
Delighting in the Trinity
Jen Wilkin’s Books
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As ministry wives, we often find ourselves in situations where women come to us looking for counsel. It can be difficult to know how to point them to God while effectively journeying with them through struggles. Counselor Kristin Kellen joins the podcast today to share introductory How-To’s of counseling women. She shares when and how to speak, when to be silent, and when to seek outside intervention for the women in our lives.
SHOW NOTES* You don’t have to have the right words. Sometimes you just need to sit and listen in silence. * We cannot always provide a solution, but we can bring God’s Word into the midst of their struggle, reminding them of who He is, and that He sees them and is near. * We help one another carry burdens for a season, with the intent to lay them at the feet of the One who has the answers.
QUOTES“Give yourself the grace to not necessarily have to have the words, because it may be that this woman just needs to sit and process and think out loud. She may just need to have someone who sees her, hears her and hugs her at the end of the conversation.”
-Kristin Kellen
“We’re bringing God’s Word and God’s comfort to say ‘I hear you, I see you. God hears you, and God sees you.’ That’s so simple and yet so profound. We don’t have to have some 10-step method to fix people’s problems. Oftentimes, 90% of the issue can be met just by sitting, listening, being present and bringing some source of comfort from Scripture that is a reminder of who God is in the midst of those struggles.”
-Kristin Kellen
LINKS FROM THE SHOWCounseling Women
Southeastern Counseling Certificate Program
Head over to www.ministrywivespodcast.com to check out the great content already on the site!
CONNECTConnect with Kristin
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The busyness of ministry and life’s ever-changing rhythms can make us feel like we are struggling not only to keep Jesus first but also meaningfully connect with our husband regularly. Today, author Jani Ortlund opens up about the rhythms and mindsets that have seen her through over 50 years of ministry and marriage.
SHOW NOTES* Our life as a ministry wife is not a performance. We should minister because of Him, out of His fullness, not duty. * Your relationship with Jesus must be first and most important. Be the type of woman who feels the lack in her life when you aren’t regularly connecting with the Lord. * Rhythms constantly need adjusting as life and ministry change. Communicate with your spouse and look for creative ways to connect during those times.
QUOTES“I’m not ministering for Jesus. I’m ministering because of Jesus. I’m not trying to return favors or earn anything from Him. It’s just because of who He is.”
-Jani Ortlund
“I think the thing that has helped me most is my relationship with Jesus. When that has suffered, I have suffered. And consequently my ministry has suffered. So again, it comes back to my first priority. Ray and I live our lives by three priorities: Jesus, our brothers and sisters in the faith, and then mission. So if I don’t have Jesus as my first priority, if I have my ministry as my first priority, or people in the church is my first priority, then things get twisted around and lopsided and I don’t do as well.”
-Jani Ortlund
LINKS FROM THE SHOWHelp! I’m Married to My Pastor
Head over to www.ministrywivespodcast.com to check out the great content already on the site!
CONNECTConnect with Jani
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When God calls you to a new place, it won’t always be a smooth transition. There may be hurt and heartbreak over who or what you have to leave behind. Lynley Mandrell joins me today to share her story of a tough ministry transition, what she and her husband did well, what they did poorly, and how much the Lord taught them in the midst of the mess.
SHOW NOTES* Just because the Lord calls you to something doesn’t mean it’s going to be easy. * Find the balance between seeking counsel and allowing too many voices to pollute what God is saying to your family. * Ministry is hard, no matter how healthy you think you are. Check-in with a Christian counselor on a regular basis.
QUOTES“You take the things people say very heavily and then it makes you question, ‘Is that God speaking through this person? Are we doing the right thing or are we doing the wrong thing?’ This is when trust and faith in God comes in.”
-Lynley Mandrell
“There’s a sense of ownership, right or wrong, that people feel about their pastors. So it’s really hard to release them to other people or to a different kind of ministry. It’s understandable, the shock and the sadness that they feel.”
-Christine Hoover
“I think the thing that we have learned the most is no matter what, it cannot hurt to just have a check in with a Christian counselor pretty regularly. Ministry is really hard, and managing people’s opinions and perceptions is really hard. It takes its toll.”
-Lynley Mandrell
“I think the best advice is: go into transition with your hands wide open, saying, ‘Whatever you have for me in this season God, so be it.'”
-Lynley Mandrell
LINKS FROM THE SHOWThe Glass House
From Strength to Strength
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We long to have deep friendships with other pastors’ wives in our church. But how do we go about initiating and building those relationships amidst the busyness of ministry? Pastors’ wives Meredith Miller and Bailey Leitch share today how they have cultivated a deep friendship with one another by focusing on trust, honor, and Jesus.
SHOW NOTES* Cultivate a culture of honor in the way you speak to and about one another. * Building a team of ministry wives in your church requires safety, security, and support. * Center your relationship around Jesus and loving each other as friends, not the church.
QUOTES“It is a huge blessing because there’s mutual encouragement. We are experiencing the same things as pastor’s wives, both of our husbands are on staff and there’s a uniqueness to that that we get to go through and encourage one another and pray for one another. I think having this relationship and getting to go through the seasons of ministry together has been really sweet.”
-Meredith Miller
“I definitely felt this weight of, we’re going to be doing life with these people. So Meredith needs to know all of my stuff and I need to know her stuff because we are going to be walking alongside each other in a lot of difficulty, but also a lot of joy. I think we both had the mindset of: we need to be committed to one another and that’s going to mean vulnerability to start propelling a friendship forward.”
-Bailey Leitch
“That is the huge key, right? Centering the relationship around Jesus, not the church. You’re seeking to love each other as a friend does and that has nothing to do with what your husbands do. You’re gonna understand things about each other that other people might not, but to me that’s the key.”
-Christine Hoover
LINKS FROM THE SHOWCenter Church
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The responsibility of ministry drains us emotionally, spiritually, and mentally. Rest is a vital component for our overall health, as well as the health of our ministry. Pastor Gregg Matte and his wife Kelly explain how they have created individual and family rest rhythms through scheduling their days, Sabbaths, and sabbaticals.
SHOW NOTES* Dedicate a portion of your day to the Lord, a portion to your ministry, and a portion to family and rest. * Create an environment of peace and rest by allowing the peace of Christ to rule in your heart. * Taking time for rest moves your ministry from fatigue to fired up with renewal.
QUOTES“Responsibility is stressful, and this is one of the challenges of having a job with responsibility, and it happens to be ministry. I’m going to blame responsibility, not God for putting me in ministry. That’s where you end up with that spiritual burnout where people are at the end of their ministry, and they don’t like their Christianity. I tell our staff all the time, don’t let your ministry ruin your Christianity. Walk with God and let that be a part of your heart and your life.”
-Gregg Matte
“I think creating a peaceful environment starts with becoming a peaceful person. I think about Colossians 3:15, ‘Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts,.’ The more peaceful we are, the more we’ll create an environment around us that’s conducive to rest. That’s not always easy, sometimes it takes wrestling with the Lord to get to a place where the peace of Christ is actually ruling our hearts. But when we let God do a deep work in us, His peace fills our hearts and overflows into our homes.”
-Kelly Matte
LINKS FROM THE SHOWCapture the Moment
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If God calls you to work outside the home or church, you may experience guilt or fear because you are filling a role that looks different from the traditional ministry wife “mold.” Pastor’s wife and business owner Macy English explains how she overcomes these misgivings by communicating with her husband and practicing open-handed stewardship before the Lord.
SHOW NOTES* Scripture teaches that all work is sacred, whether it’s inside the church walls or outside the church. * Don’t allow the guilt or fear of being different from the “mold” keep you from being a faithful steward of what He has gifted and called you to do. * Practice open-handed stewardship by regularly going before the Lord with your spouse, laying down your life, work and ministry before Him.
QUOTES“When we start to look at all of work as sacred, the Lord can redeem and birth something really beautiful out of the Excel spreadsheet I’m building. In conversations around being gospel centered in our homes, there’s lots of conversation about taking the mundane, redeeming it and seeing that we’re doing a good work, whether it’s laundry or dishes, or getting kids ready for school. I wanna take that conversation and actually think about what that looks like in work as well with the tasks that the Lord has given us. How can we steward, honor and glorify Him with the skills He’s given us?”
-Macy English
“The joy is so great when we see that we’ve been good stewards of what the Lord has given us and we can’t shrink back in fear because we will stand before the Lord. We will not stand before men when we have to give an account for what we’ve done with what we’ve been given.”
-Macy English
LINKS FROM THE SHOWEvery Good Endeavor
Women and Work
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The weight of ministry can be heavy. We are often journeying with others through hardship and disappointment. But amid the hard, the Lord gifts us with sweet spots of lightness and fun. Pastor’s wife and teacher Tanya York joins the podcast today to share how she finds joy and fun even when circumstances are hard. Tanya intentionally pursues the buckets of joy and wins the Lord gives, and gives practical tips on how we can do the same.
SHOW NOTES* Take your sin seriously, but don’t take yourself too seriously. * You cannot change the character of people who are giving you hard, but you can change the way you perceive them. Choose to see their uniqueness and have fun with them. * Don’t use personality as an excuse to live negatively. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you see the wins and pursue life with a God who is as good as He says He is.
QUOTES“I take sin very seriously, confronting sin in my own life and heart, but I don’t take myself too seriously. I’ve learned to laugh about things in ministry, and especially myself in ministry. Proverbs gives us that great verse, ‘A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bone.'”
-Tanya York
“I can’t comprehend a Christian being absent of joy. I’m not saying that you find joy in every single thing, but there has to be continual waves of that flooding through your life. That’s a uniqueness of Christianity that has to show up to draw people to Christ. In His presence is fullness of joy; I don’t leave His presence and He doesn’t leave mine. So the possibility of having a joyful heart, even in the middle of some very hard things is a choice that a Christian should make. I think it is incumbent upon the Christian to remind herself that she has the responsibility to portray the joy of Christ in her life.”
-Tanya York
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Mental illness can be very confusing as a Christian. We are followers of Christ, we know Scripture, so how could we feel hopeless? Today, Julie Busler candidly shares her journey through depression and PTSD. Julie has learned that medicine and faith go hand in hand, and that a mental illness diagnosis does not disqualify you for ministry.
SHOW NOTES* Being a Christian does not mean you have to be happy all the time. Joy and sorrow can coexist. * Telling someone your struggles may feel overwhelming, but until we bring things into the light, healing cannot happen. * Medicine and faith go hand in hand. You may truly need medical intervention, but you also need Jesus every minute of every day to bring your soul to life.
QUOTES“I actually went to another missionary and told her enough that she knew I needed help. This was so important because I think sometimes in ministry it can be pretty lonely, and it’s hard to find safe friends who you can be real with, because you feel like you have to have it all together as the one who’s always encouraging everyone.”
– Julie Busler
“If you have cancer and you have chemo, I believe that’s a good thing. If you have diabetes and you have medicine, that’s a good thing. So I put mental illness in the same category. But again, nothing can give you joy and peace that is not dependent on your circumstances like Jesus.”
– Julie Busler
“Even with depression, this diagnosed mental illness, I am still His workmanship. I am created on purpose with a purpose. And it might look different than I wanted, but it’s good.”
– Julie Busler
LINKS FROM THE SHOWJoyful Sorrow: Breaking Through the Darkness of Mental Illness
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Marriages can be strained by attacks from the enemy and the pace of church ministry. How do we balance the demands of ministry with the proper honor God calls us to give our spouses? Pastor and husband James Roberson explains how men can uplift their wives, how wives can approach hard conversations, and how the marriage partnership is a blessing from God.
SHOW NOTES Husbands: Slow down and consider the state of your own soul. Then* you can assess and address the overall health of your wife, who is your partner and equal investor in ministry. * Spouses: You are not just a tool for one another’s ministries. God chose you for one another for your life, growth, and sanctification. * Wives: Approach your husbands with observations, not accusations. Remember that Satan would love to turn you into enemies. Saturate hard conversations with prayer.
QUOTES“I think the navigation of my wife’s gifts is a broader holistic navigation of her mind, soul, and body. I need to budget time to assess all of that, not to just maintain a marriage that looks great for pictures. Jesus, in His sovereign vision for my life, chose my wife not for my ministry, but for my life, for my health, for my sanctification. So me investigating who she is and how she’s doing is part of me learning part of the ministry that God has given me for my life.”
– James Roberson
“I think [you] have to have an infinite amount of conversations with Jesus before [you] have a conversation with [y]our husband. Saturate those moments in prayer and don’t come to him in the flesh. Don’t try to win the conversation. I think ministry wives need to feel that need for prayer and maybe partner with other wives in that prayer, so that the deep need goes towards intercession, not resentment.”
– James Roberson
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Criticism is inevitable in the life of a ministry wife, but learning to respond to it well takes patience, practice, and peace from the Lord. Author and teacher Ann Swindell joins me today to share how reframing her views of criticism and immersing herself in God’s Word allows her to navigate criticism with grace and love.
SHOW NOTES* Your job is not to fulfill what other people want. Your job is to fulfill what God wants. * Criticism always offers us an opportunity to grow, whether the remarks are valid or not. * The Word provides peace to carry us through the emotions that arise with criticism and righteous conviction.
QUOTES“It’s hard to let people down. Behind my back, people could be saying, ‘Ann seems inaccessible or isn’t doing what I think a pastor’s wife should do.’ But my job isn’t to fulfill other people’s aims for my life. My job is to follow and walk with Christ in the season I’m in, trusting He will give me grace to do what I’m called to do.”
-Ann Swindell
“Criticism always offers us an opportunity to grow, and I want to grow in Jesus. I want to be a woman who is tendered to the Holy Spirit, who is humble, who is responsive. Two main ways I see it is either the criticism itself is valid, and there’s something in my character that needs to grow, or their criticism isn’t valid, and I have a chance to grow in how I love a difficult person.”
-Ann Swindell
“If I can get past my own defensiveness and to the heart of the person in front of me, God wants to heal them just as much as He wants to heal me. Usually I think criticism stems from a place of pain and, whether that pain is warranted or not, it can be very real for that person. We have an opportunity to shepherd and love them in that moment.”
-Ann Swindell
LINKS FROM THE SHOWThe Path to Peace
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Loneliness can be a very troubling feeling for us as ministry wives. How can we be surrounded by people and yet still feel totally alone? Rivers Partin joins me today to explain how acknowledging loneliness and its gifts has allowed her to become more connected to herself, others, and most importantly, God.
SHOW NOTES* Loneliness is a gift–our soul signaling to us that we need to make some changes. * Acknowledge the loneliness and try to identify which of the three types you are experiencing: with self, others, or God. * Sometimes God allows seasons of loneliness to drive us to Him.
QUOTES“The answer to why loneliness exists would be that we were created for relationship. We were created for intimacy. We were created to be known and to know others. You can’t escape it because it’s what we were designed for. What loneliness does is it drives us. It’s a signal to us that we aren’t in strong, solid relationships where we’re known, where we feel like we belong. There is goodness to that.”
-Rivers Partin
“I think sometimes God allows seasons of loneliness, because He wants to teach us that relationships with other people are never going to fully satisfy the longing that we have for connection. He’s going to give us the gift of community and friendship, but ultimately we need Him.”
-Christine Hoover
“Intimacy is the opposite of loneliness. It’s mutual knowing and being known. Vulnerability begets intimacy, being known, being laid bare. ‘This is me, these are my faults, this is who I am.’ Intimacy is not saying, ‘I’m gonna stay here or you’re gonna allow me to stay here in my faults or brokenness or mistakes.’ But it is allowing another to know those things and then moving forward with grace and kindness for one another.”
-Rivers Partin
LINKS FROM THE SHOWThe Voice of the Heart
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We want our kids to love God and the church as much as we do. But when we force-feed faith, especially to teenagers, they can wind up resenting the church and losing interest in Christ. Author, mom, and pastor’s wife Kristie Anyabwile shares how she’s learned to take a step back, giving her teens space to choose the Lord for themselves while providing spiritual opportunities that fit each child uniquely.
SHOW NOTES* Don’t try to force feed your teenagers into faith; cultivate their hearts, provide opportunities, and ask good questions. * Do what works for your family to grow spiritually together, and do what works for each individual child to grow. * When you feel fear or a need to control, take it to the Lord. It likely has nothing to do with your children, but something in you that needs addressing.
QUOTES“We don’t want church and church activity to feel forced, to feel like something they have to do. We want to cultivate in them a desire to do it. Certain things are non-negotiable, like worshiping together. But as far as the life of the church, be intentional about finding ways to give your children freedom in terms of how much they want to participate. I think as parents, a lot of times we think, ‘They’re kids, they’re in my house, whatever we do, they’re doing.’ Then we cart our kids around so much, they start to resent church and church activity.”
-Kristie Anyabwile
“Faith doesn’t come by force feeding. It comes by the work of the Spirit and the heart. Whether that heart is a little heart that’s 5 years old, or whether that heart is a teenager or older. So we cultivate hearts and we want the habits to be such that their hearts are tuned towards it, not bent against it.”
-Kristie Anyabwile
LINKS FROM THE SHOWLiterarily
His Testimonies, My Heritage
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Sunday mornings can feel incredibly stressful, especially when you have young kids. Lindsey Carlson, pastor’s wife and mom of five, shares how she manages the chaos by having appropriate expectations of her kids, seeking the Spirit’s guidance, and relying on grab-n-go breakfasts.
SHOW NOTES* Recognize Sundays will be chaotic. Preparation and clear expectations help minimize the chaos. * Remind your kids that they are not coming to church to be looked at or to impress anyone. They are coming because they are participants in the Body of Christ. * When disciplining your kids at church, ask the Spirit to help you focus on what you are trying to teach your child, not on what everyone else is thinking.
QUOTES“As a pastor’s wife, you have to reconcile the fact that Sunday is going to be the craziest day of the week. How can I minimize the chaos and show up as a servant to my husband, and my church body, but also to my kids that are along for the ride? While there are things that I can’t control, I can show up prepared knowing that it’s gonna be a crazy morning. I can also show up with tools that help me to manage the chaos a little bit and give my kids expectations to know what’s coming.”
-Lindsey Carlson
“I want my kids to know they are not coming to church to be looked at. They are coming as worshipers to learn about Jesus, to benefit and to serve the body of Christ. Even though their parents have different, unique roles that they’re going to be fulfilling, the kids are not coming to be an extension of me and to be impressive so that I look better. The kids are coming because they are participants in the family of Christ. I want to be very careful that the expectations I set for them are the same I would put on any other kids attending.”
-Lindsey Carlson
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Welcome to Season 2 of the Ministry Wives Podcast! We kick off this season with a very special guest, my husband Kyle Hoover. Kyle joins me for a special Q&A session. You had questions about our life and ministry together, we sat down and openly answered them. I hope you enjoy getting to know us a little bit better and find encouragement from our journey!
BEST QUOTES“It’s not about me impressing people, it’s not about my kids being well behaved and impressing people. I want to be faithful in my being faithful. And hopefully people see that that’s what I want them to see: the Lord in me and not myself. I also don’t wanna get into this impressive mindset because I think that’s not helpful to people who actually are watching. I don’t want them to think that’s what faith in Christ is about, that it has to be this mold or this perfection. I want to just be me. I just want to be present with people and, as a sinful person, I’m not gonna do that perfectly, but that’s okay. That’s okay if they see that part of me.”
— Christine Hoover
“There was a time in my life where everyone knew I was going through things. I spoke about it in sermons. I was vague but honest that I was experiencing the conviction of the Spirit in my life, and that God was at work in some very powerful and painful ways to uproot some things in me. I think I experienced compassion from people. I didn’t experience their condemnation. I didn’t pretend that it was business as usual, and that was a part of my healing.”
— Kyle Hoover
“How I fight cynicism is to consistently be in the Word and to let the light and the water of Scripture aerate the soul of our hearts so that bitterness cannot take root.”
— Christine Hoover
LINKS FROM THE SHOWOvercoming Bitterness
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The joys and challenges of ministry in a transient place are different from those in a traditional church context. Transient ministry requires detailed intentionality and remembering that God has entrusted people to you for only a short period of time. Brittany Brown understands transient ministry well, having walked alongside her military husband for nearly twenty years. She joins me today to provide insight into transient ministry and how embracing the movement has aided her in leading others towards Christ.
EPISODE GUIDE 1. Embrace the unique challenges and movement of transient church plant ministry.
2. There are many joys in a transient church.
BEST QUOTES “I think a challenge for us is raising up women to minister to the other women. At any given time, our church could be filled with 75% women and tons of little kids. Seeing that their needs are filled well can be a challenge. We have to walk alongside the elders to help minister to them.”
— Brittany Brown
“Our vision is to embrace the transient movement and see it as an opportunity of taking the gospel, reaching them with it, discipling them, and training up leaders. Then we send them out, holding them open-handed to go wherever they’re gonna go in the world and bring in that new batch of people to do the same thing again.”
— Brittany Brown
“There are hardships, but there are joys as well. As I watch young families move away and see them plug into a new church, I see them being faithful or growing in their love for the Lord, I find that really joyful. It’s a good reminder for me that I don’t need to be everything to everybody, God is gonna move them.”
— Brittany Brown
LINKS FROM THE SHOW The Pastor’s Wife and Social Media Podcast Episode
Messy Beautiful Friendship
The Gospel Comes with a House Key
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Sometimes God calls us to serve in a culture that is unlike our own. Navigating multicultural church planting can feel overwhelming and isolating. The expectations of serving those whose lives look different from our own can leave us feeling as though we don’t measure up. Andreina Fasolino joins me today to share how she has learned to manage expectations and grow closer to Christ while planting a multicultural church.
EPISODE GUIDE 1. When planting a multicultural church, understand there may be very different expectations of you in a different culture and you may not be able to meet all of them.
2. You are not alone in the planting journey. God wants to teach you and grow you as you teach others.
BEST QUOTES “They expect the pastor’s wife to be there in everything, doing everything. But at the moment, I had to also teach them in love and God helped me do that. First of all, we were church planting, we were just starting. I also had a child and my second one was on the way. I had to let them know that I loved to serve them and loved to do a lot of things, but I knew what God had called me to do and that’s not to do everything.”— Andreina Fasolino
“I took time to connect with other church planter’s wives through going to a gathering and joining a Facebook group. I’m gonna take time to listen to podcasts about this, and I’m gonna see how others feel. There was a moment that I understood I wasn’t alone and that we all face the same expectation in different circumstances. That’s when I took the decision to go back to my calling, what God was calling me to do, and my identity in Him.”— Andreina Fasolino
LINKS FROM THE SHOW Emmanuel Baptist Church East
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Living in long-term ministry requires a stamina that only comes from the Lord. Donna Gaines knows the secret to longevity in ministry lies in our intimacy with Christ, having spent the last 41 years as a pastor’s wife and ministry leader. She shares today how that intimacy has kept her going, even in the darkest times.
EPISODE GUIDE 1. Longevity is achieved through intimacy with Christ, a support system of friends and mentors, and prioritizing your relationship with your husband.
2. The Lord has prepared work for you, not only alongside your husband, but of your own ministry as well.
3. When you feel discouraged, make it a priority to meet with God everyday.
BEST QUOTES “When I receive my basic needs for love and significance in my personal relationship with Jesus Christ, I’m able to love my husband, my family, and my neighbor out of the overflow. When I love Him with my whole being, He fills me with His love for others. I’m able to love them out of that overflow instead of sucking life out of them, instead of looking to them to meet a need that Christ has already met for me. That’s primary.”
— Donna Gaines
“I’ve never seriously considered quitting, because I felt so called. I believe if you’re a pastor’s wife you’re called because God doesn’t call half a flesh and we’re one flesh with our husbands. Operate in your giftedness. Whatever God has gifted you in is a gift to the body of Christ and we need to be living and walking in that giftedness. Whether you’re a pastor’s wife or not, that calling is on all of us as believers.”
— Donna Gaines
LINKS FROM THE SHOW Literacy Nonprofit: Arise2Read
A Chance to Die
Chronological Bible Teaching
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We often think the call to engage in ministry requires established groups, curriculum, and a clear plan. But what about the single mom next door we feel God tugging our hearts for? In my conversation with Elisa Medina today, she shares how God transformed her idea of what women’s ministry should be. Rather than focusing on quantity, Elisa has learned to focus on the one.
EPISODE GUIDE 1. Women’s ministry isn’t for someday; it is right now.
2. Your family is meant to be a part of your ministry and a core area that you seek God’s transformation.
3. It’s not about numbers. Even if one woman is changed by Christ, you’re accomplishing God’s work.
BEST QUOTES “I want to encourage every woman out there that is trying to build a ministry: I am sure there is one woman at her church already. Maybe not even at her church, because it doesn’t have to be at your church. Maybe it’s your neighbor. Maybe it’s the woman at the market that you see often. Maybe it’s a woman you see at the gym and God’s tugging your heart saying, ‘That is the girl you’re gonna take for a coffee because that is where it’s going to start.'”
— Elisa Medina
“I’ve learned to take on the call God has given me to teach women with my babies, with my children. You don’t have to hide your kiddos. We’re trying to help women understand that they can bring their whole baggage of kids and we’ll learn and grow together in the Lord. ”
— Elisa Medina
“If I set my eyes on just one person, if I can lead them to hope and Christ and experiencing His presence and it changes them? My job is done and complete.”
— Elisa Medina
LINKS FROM THE SHOW Saved By Grace Church
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How can women who have the gift of leadership operate in the church in a godly, biblical way? Today, author and ministry director Jen Wilkin shares her origin story–how she got where she is today–what her greatest challenges are in leadership, and what she wants the church to know about men and women serving together within the local church context.
SHOW NOTES 1. If you want to use your gifting to lead in the church and the answer is currently “no”, continue to pray for open doors.
2. When your church is starting to place women in leadership, expect growing pains, but remember God intended for men and women to minister together.
3. Being who God created you to be is not a license to sin.
BEST QUOTES “If there are not currently doors open, pray that the Lord will make a way and continue to put yourself out there as you’re able to. I know how hard that is, to be met again and again with “no.” But there is good, meaningful, and satisfying work to be done in other spaces if that door is closed. The Lord sees that and honors it. All we can do is be faithful where the Lord has placed us.”
— Jen Wilkin
“There will be a better form of community in this room than there was when it was all male, because this is what the Lord envisions: that it is not good for the man to be alone. Brothers and sisters are meant to be working together, shoulder to shoulder.”
— Jen Wilkin
“[There is often an expectation] that women in the church are supposed to demonstrate a quiet and gentle spirit by being actually quiet and never saying anything that sounds ungentle. That stereotype can be difficult, but I have found that it is good discipline for me to be slow to speak and to find a soft way to say a hard thing. Those are important and godly things for me to be trained in.”
— Jen Wilkin
LINKS FROM THE SHOW The Village Church
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The demands of life as a ministry wife can leave our hearts open to dangerous traps that bruise our spirits and discourage us in ministry. Today, Paige Wieser shares her experiences as a church planting wife and offers ways she’s learned to avoid these traps.
EPISODE GUIDE Trap #1: Ministry is a taking endeavor; it’s taking everything from me.
Trap #2: This is my husband’s “thing.”
Trap #3: Hard seasons never end. This painful time will always be this way.
BEST QUOTES “Satan wants to plant a root of bitterness that says, ‘Oh this is taking so much from me emotionally, timewise, and spiritually.’ But we should not be surprised or caught off guard, because church planting is actually a giving endeavor. When you start seeing it as a taking endeavor, there’s a lot of pitfalls and traps that come from that.”
— Paige Wieser
“Can’t we sometimes be dramatic, us girls? ‘This will always be like this, I’m never going to see the end of it.’ There will be hard. Pain comes with purpose and there will be hard moments, but they won’t last forever. There is joy in the morning, and sometimes the morning comes a lot later than you want it to, at least in my heart and how I feel. Someone asked me once, ‘Remember that year that was hard, does it still hurt as much?’ and I was like, ‘No.’ That was an encouragement. What’s hard right now isn’t going to hurt as much in the future. The seasons do change.”
— Paige Wieser
“I think unmet expectations feel like they could be a trap in any part of life maybe, but they lead to comparison. Realize it’s not going to look exactly like you thought it would in every single detail, and that’s okay.”
— Paige Wieser
LINKS FROM THE SHOW Check out Resonate Church to learn more about winning college students for Christ.
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The pressures of performing well as a ministry or pastor’s wife often fill us with anxiety. It’s easy to become lost in expectations and turn our eyes on ourselves. Author Scarlet Hiltibidal joins me today to discuss anxiety as a pastor’s wife. Scarlet, a self-proclaimed anxiety expert, shares how she fights fear with a heavenly gaze and an open Bible.
EPISODE GUIDE 1. Anxiety whispers different fears to every woman’s heart.
2. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be a good ministry wife and mother, but it’s not about you, keep looking upward to Jesus.
3. We’re all a mess; take it to the Lord together, open His Word and do what it says.
BEST QUOTES “I was so anxious about my own goodness and what other people thought of me and what God thought of me. I could have said to you, ‘God sees the perfection of Jesus when He looks at me,’ but I didn’t live like I believed that, so I wasn’t at peace.”
— Scarlet Hiltibidal
“When I do something good, it’s all because of the Holy Spirit working through me. When I fail, which I will, I don’t have to despair. I can apologize and tell my children, husband, and whoever is around, ‘Thank God for Jesus! This is why He died and rose again.'”
— Scarlet Hiltibidal
“I pray that even in my failures I’m able to point people to Him and that I’m able to comfort the women at our church, not by being like, ‘I’m a mess, I’m the worst.’ But by saying, ‘Hey, we’re all a mess. Let’s take it to the Lord. Let’s open His Word every day and do what it says and experience the joy of obeying and being free of the sins that enslave us.”
— Scarlet Hiltibidal
LINKS FROM THE SHOW You’re the Worst Person in the World
Anxious (Bible Study)
Afraid of All the Things
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“We love because He first loved us” (1 John 4:19, NIV). But how do we love like Jesus did, and how do we love those who are hard to love? Pascha Lee, director of Imagine Me Ministries, has dedicated her life to loving people well and creating an environment of safety for those in her community. She joins me today to help us think through how we can demonstrate the love of Jesus to everyone, including those we might find difficult to love.
EPISODE GUIDE 1. Create a climate of comradery and safety.
2. When you think about who He has entrusted you with to love, it has to change your perspective.
3. Some people are harder to love than others.
BEST QUOTES “It’s in safety that we can thrive, when we can peel off the layers, when we can be encouraged and then encourage others … that’s where forgiveness takes place. If you don’t have that safety, then there’s a guard and you can’t really have camaraderie and unity and get along well because you’re trying to make sure that nothing’s gonna happen to you.”
— Pascha Lee
“If I’m doing something and it is begrudging, it often goes back to my own heart of, ‘I’m doing this so people appreciate me or thank me or see me. Not because I love God.'”
— Christine Hoover
“As a pastor’s wife, you have been called alongside your husband to love these people and serve them whether you feel like it or not. So at the end of the day, ‘God, are you pleased? God, are you glorified?'” He may not be glorified if I say what I want to say or look at you a certain way, so I have to watch my eyes and I have to watch my mouth.”
— Pascha Lee
LINKS FROM THE SHOW Email info@imaginemementor.org or visit www.imaginemementor.org to learn more about the Imagine Me curriculum.
Head over to www.ministrywivespodcast.com to check out the great content already on the site!
CONNECT Connect with Christine
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Visit How to Thrive as a Pastor’s Wife to access Christine’s resources for ministry wives like you!
“The point of life is not to get married. The point of life is to walk well with Jesus.” My guest today, Erin Berkey, shares these words as a core principle in the single adult ministry she and her husband lead. Far too often within the church, singles are overlooked and left behind. Erin joins me to offer practical, loving ways that we as ministry wives can build singles up in Christ while inviting them into our lives and into leadership.
EPISODE GUIDE 1. Recognize that singles have different needs than families or married couples.
2. Create space for singles in the church by encouraging them to take part in ministry and valuing them as much as married couples.
3. Bridge the gap between married and single women by inviting them into your life and sharing your journey with Christ. Set the example and urge others to do the same.
BEST QUOTES “Young adults need to understand their identity in Christ because it’s hard not to find identity in the wrong things, like their marital status. ‘Once I get married, then I will be complete.’ They are complete in Christ, lacking nothing.”— Erin Berkey
“We really try to focus on how we help you grow in your walk with Jesus. How do we help bring people into the family of God and then onto maturity in Christ? Not just because you’re single, but because you’re a person who is valuable in the eyes of the Lord.”— Erin Berkey
“When I walk into church on Sunday, I want to open my eyes and see who the Lord wants me to talk to. Who does He want me to get to know and invite into my family and what I’m doing so that I can help them grow? God is very faithful to show that if we look for it, but it’s very easy to just walk in, sit down, listen and walk out.”
— Erin Berkey
LINKS FROM THE SHOW Visit Grace Bible Church and Junction to learn more about this impactful ministry!
Head over to www.ministrywivespodcast.com to check out the great content already on the site!
CONNECT Connect with Erin
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Connect with Christine
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Visit How to Thrive as a Pastor’s Wife to access Christine’s resources for ministry wives like you!
Serving in traditional ministry can sometimes make us forget the effectiveness of genuine friendship and neighborhood outreach. Missional communities, like the one today’s guest Linda Yang lives in, provide an opportunity to live out daily life on mission within your local neighborhood. Linda is an employment specialist with World Relief Chicagoland, working with newly settled Afghan refugees. She joins me to share how she and her family have seen God open hearts through simple acts of kindness and banana bread.
EPISODE GUIDE 1. What are the essentials of the missional community model of church?
2. Living in a missional community means thinking outside the traditional box.
3. Sometimes God’s mightiest work happens when we are simply being a friend.
BEST QUOTES “A missional community is a group that is faithfully present among specific people with the intention of making new disciples of Jesus. It is a spiritual family on mission together, investing in relationships wherever God calls us.”
— Linda Yang
“When others follow alongside me, watching my obedience to what God is calling me to do, it has led them into their own obedience. It builds up not just my faith but theirs, it’s a ripple effect. I think having others do it with you and learning to see God work in our obedience is the key to leading them to follow after God’s promptings on their own heart.”
— Linda Yang
“Simple acts of kindness and loving someone through my baked goods is really all God needs to open up hearts. He uses my cookies to open the hearts of these women. They’re so quick to want to share something personal with me. I’ve learned that when you simplify things and learn to be friends with somebody, God works mightily in that.”
— Linda Yang
LINKS FROM THE SHOW The Purpose Driven Life
Head over to www.ministrywivespodcast.com to check out the great content already on the site!
CONNECT Connect with Christine
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Visit How to Thrive as a Pastor’s Wife to access Christine’s resources for ministry wives like you!
We want to be everything for everyone all the time. We see the needs of others and want to intervene, even when we aren’t meant to. How do we determine which needs are ours to meet, and which are not? Aimee Joseph joins me today to share how she has found freedom in deciphering when a need is a call for action.
Aimee spent many years directing women’s discipleship and ministry at Redeemer Presbyterian Church and Campus Outreach San Diego. She and her husband are currently planting Center City Church in their neighborhood in San Diego. She is the author of Demystifying Decision-Making. Aimee helps us understand that we sometimes need to say “no” to a need to glorify God and activate the Body.
EPISODE GUIDE 1. How do we discern when the need is a call?
First, recognize that God created us to be limited, exhaustible, and dependent on each other and Him.
Determine each week what is in your circle of responsibility and what is in your circle of concern.
If you see a need you are unable to meet, connect the need to the Body.
“We are significant because we are made in His image. We’re the only thing in all creation that has souls, and yet we’re derivative. That means that we don’t exist in and of ourselves; we are limited. We were created to be dependent on God and interdependent on each other before the fall. Our culture and flesh and the enemy want us to be independent. Everything in our culture says, ‘Be independent, meet all needs, be self-sufficient, be self-reliant,’ which is the very opposite of the gospel.”— Aimee Joseph
2. Consider the passions, priorities, and providential circumstances when determining what needs you should be meeting.
Passion: Look for the 3 E’s: what do you enjoy, what are you efficient at accomplishing, where are you effective?
Priorities: What are your priorities in this season? A new baby season will be different than a teenager season, a church planting season different from an established church season.
Providential Circumstances: A season of anxiety, a child with special needs, etc.
“Do what you can do that only you can do. Only I can raise my children in this season. Only I can love my husband well. Only I can make sure that I’m getting my time with the Lord. That’s not to say that there’s not going to be times where God stretches us outside of our gifts and what feels natural. There will be times when He does that, but He doesn’t call us to live there, He usually brings us back into the lane where we’re most wired and comfortable.”— Aimee Joseph
3. When an urgent need arises, pause before you act.
Before anything else, bring the need before the Lord in prayer.
You want to be a paced presence in people’s lives for years to come.
If you commit before you’ve sought the Lord, repent and then either help find someone else to fill the need or ask Him to help you meet it.
“We often think this person needs a meal, or needs me to walk with them, or needs wisdom, when the first thing this person actually needs is for me to bring them into the presence of God. Start by praying.”
— Aimee Joseph
LINKS FROM THE SHOW Demystifying Decision-Making
Head over to www.ministrywivespodcast.com to check out the great content already on the site!
CONNECT Connect with Aimee
Blog
Connect with Christine
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Visit How to Thrive as a Pastor’s Wife to access Christine’s resources for ministry wives like you!
It’s easy to support women whose lives and ministries look like ours, but the body of Christ is made up of unique believers and various roles of Kingdom work. As ministry wives, we have the unique opportunity to support other women, no matter how different their ministry or season of life is from ours. Amy Dodd shares today about her life as a single woman working full-time in a parachurch ministry.
Amy serves with Athletes In Action, a sports ministry of Cru, in Raleigh, NC. She’s been with AIA since 2009, and now ministers at Shaw University and NC State. Amy has a passion for seeing others understand and grow in the love of God, and her unique position in parachurch ministry allows her to share the gospel with collegiate athletes. Amy joins me to discuss the joys and challenges of parachurch ministry and serving as a single woman.
EPISODE GUIDE 1. Walk alongside women in ministries that are different from yours.
Ask questions, offer support, speak truth, and pray.
Seek to find ways to partner. If you both have a heart for a specific group, how can you reach them together?
Find common ground: no matter how different their ministry might be, there are similarities that can tie you together.
“I think it’s important to know the heart of the leaders, to have conversations and to hear from the church and church leaders, as well as other women in ministry. I want to know their hearts for college ministry and how we can do it together.”— Amy Dodd
“[In parachurch ministry], there’s a lot of relational connection to women who are in ministry in the church. We share a lot of the same discouragements, we share a lot of the same celebrations, and speak the same language to an extent. That has been the most encouraging: somebody knows or gets me and what I’m dealing with in my discouragements or lies that I’m believing. I need someone to come alongside me and speak truth to me.”— Amy Dodd
2. Women in every season of life need encouragement and support.
Build relationships with women whose lives look different than yours. Walk with them in their struggles, and celebrate their joys.
How can you support single women in ministry?
When engaging, be vulnerable about your personal struggles and growth; don’t only share about the lives of your family members.
“One of the main struggles of being single in ministry is bearing burdens of ministry alone. It can feel very lonely sometimes, and I can struggle to believe the truth about who God is, what He’s done and is doing in my life. I can get wrapped up into a spiral of lies, and doubt, and disbelief. I think Satan attacks the single person that way, making us feel as though we are isolated and alone.”
–Amy Dodd
QUOTES “I’m thankful that I can relate to the athletes and share the struggles I’ve had with singleness at times, but also the joys and the goodness of being single, as well as waiting on the Lord, and putting your hope in Him and not someone else.”— Amy Dodd
LINKS FROM THE SHOW Learn more about Athletes in Action and how you can support this parachurch ministry.
Head over to www.ministrywivespodcast.com to check out the great content already on the site!
CONNECT Connect with Amy
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Visit How to Thrive as a Pastor’s Wife to access Christine’s resources for ministry wives like you!
Jesus called us to go and make disciples of all the nations, but how do we as ministry wives put that call into action? How do we come alongside other women, walking with Jesus and doing life together? Kandi Gallaty provides valuable insight into the importance of meditating on the Word, listening to the Spirit and committing ourselves to one another on this holy journey of discipleship.
Kandi Gallaty is an author, speaker, pastor’s wife, and boy mom. She and her husband have been serving the Lord in full time ministry for the past 18 years and currently live outside Nashville, TN. Kandi joins me today to discuss being a disciple of Christ and making disciples for Christ.
EPISODE GUIDE 1. Commit to living as a true disciple of Christ.
Get alone with Jesus everyday: find a cozy little nook and get in the Word.
Jesus has something to say to you. Listen and His Spirit will speak.
When you fill yourself with Christ, investing in others will be the natural effect of that commitment.
“I always encourage others that you can’t make disciples if you’re not living as a disciple yourself. When God called us to salvation, it was a call to be a disciple. It was a call for the rest of our life to follow after Him and continuously be transformed into His image. So I try to live my life in private when nobody’s watching the exact same way I’m going to live it in public with girls that I disciple.”
— Kandi Gallaty
“That’s where it starts. Live as a disciple of Jesus Christ and as you do that, as you read the Word daily and practice spiritual disciplines, you will not be able to help but invest in others.”
— Kandi Gallaty
2. Commit to the women in your group.
Clearly lay out all expectations of the group before you begin.
You aren’t just a leader. As you pour into the women, they will pour into you.
Model the transparency and authenticity you desire in the group.
“All the expectations are laid out, because if I’m putting my heart and soul into this, I want the same from them. The thing about a discipleship group is that it functions as a unit. I’m not just the discipler and they’re the disciples. Even though they’re going to look to me to really pour [into] and invest in them, I am looking to them too. What God shares and speaks to them throughout the week is going to minister to me as well. We’re committing and signing a covenant to the Lord first, but then to one another.”
— Kandi Gallaty
3. Issues may arise. Seek God’s wisdom on how to navigate them.
If someone is struggling to stay committed, rally around them.
Confronting habitual sin requires the same gentleness with authority and love that Jesus utilized.
When conversations need to be had, do so privately and ask the Lord to help you shepherd.
“I would encourage you to be sensitive to the Spirit as you’re praying for the ladies in your group and be obedient to what God calls you to do as a leader. He will speak and lead you as the leader, so listen if there needs to be conversations had with members in the group.”
— Kandi Gallaty
LINKS FROM THE SHOW Head over to www.ministrywivespodcast.com to check out the great content already on the site!
CONNECT Connect with Kandi
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Connect with Christine
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Visit How to Thrive as a Pastor’s Wife to access Christine’s resources for ministry wives like you!
When God calls us into ministry, our fears can outweigh our excitement to serve the Lord. These fears can paralyze and keep us from the fullness of His grace. Nira Abella knows the gripping power of fear, and the freedom that comes from surrendering it to Christ. Today, she shares how Christ has helped her overcome fears in ministry, allowing her to extend the same grace she was given to others.
Nira Abella is married to Jose, a pastor, and together they serve at Providence Road Church in Miami, Florida. In addition to raising their six children, Nira enjoys working in the women’s ministry at their church.
EPISODE GUIDE 1. Common fears we face as ministry wives:
“My past is so sinful. What if it hinders the ministry?”
“What about my family? How will we afford to live in this calling, and how can I protect my children as we serve?”
“I’m so limited in my abilities. How do I minister to who God has called me to?
“I think most pastor’s wives come to this point where they say, ‘Yes, I see it in my husband. I see what God is doing, but I’m not sure about me. I’m not sure what I bring to the table, and I don’t even know what that role is supposed to be.'”— Christine Hoover
2. “I’m afraid my sinful past will derail my present ministry.”
Christ died for your past sins; there is no condemnation in Him.
God will use your redeemed past to minister to those in similar situations.
Surrender your fear to the Lord, and rely on Him to navigate conversations if/when your past comes up.
“Women and young girls are willing to come up to me and share their struggles, their sin, their prayer requests with me because they know I understand. I’ve been there. I think it’s made me more real to them. It’s helped tear down that pedestal that people automatically place us on. And I can’t minister from a place of ‘How dare you?’ because grace was extended to me, and I need to extend that grace to others.”— Nira Abella
3. “I’m afraid for the provision of my family and the eyes of my children.”
He will provide financially in miraculous ways.
It may be a season of sacrifice, but the gifts received in ministry far outweigh what is given up.
Don’t fear for what your children may see in ministry. Remember they are also getting to see the great good God is doing.
“We were very intentional in sharing the Lord’s provision with our kids because we wanted them to know God is doing this and we’re going to trust Him. We tried as much as possible to bring our kids along so that they could witness first hand the things that the Lord was doing.”
— Nira Abella
“We don’t want to protect them from seeing ministry because otherwise they won’t see the rewards and joys of how God is working. Don’t just think about trying to help them avoid the hard things. Think about intentionally helping them see the good things.”
— Christine Hoover
QUOTES “I don’t think there’s this instant where we say, ‘Okay I’m in.’ I think it’s this process of holding both the faith and the fear in tandem and saying, ‘Lord, I don’t know, but I’m going to take this step today.’”
— Christine Hoover
LINKS FROM THE SHOW The Hiding Place
Head over to www.ministrywivespodcast.com to check out the great content already on the site!
CONNECT Connect with Nira
Connect with Christine
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Visit How to Thrive as a Pastor’s Wife to access Christine’s resources for ministry wives like you!
Practicing biblical hospitality is a vital skill for ministry wives and all Christians to cultivate but can sometimes seem daunting. Amber Williams has a heart for hospitality and shares with me how she and her family live a life of welcome. She offers us practical (and simple) ways we, too, can honor others with our presence.
Amber has been a pastor’s wife for almost 13 years and lives in Louisville, Kentucky with her husband and five beautiful children. She speaks Spanish and loves cooking and baking, but more than anything, enjoys opening her home to people from every walk of life.
EPISODE GUIDE 1. Biblical hospitality is not a picture perfect home and an elaborate meal.
Hospitality is about making time and space for people, whether there’s a meal, coffee, or simple conversation.
Do not underestimate the power of presence. When we make space in our busy lives for others, it speaks volumes.
You don’t have to have a Bible study every time, but invite Jesus into the space and be sensitive to the Holy Spirit’s presence.
“Biblical hospitality is really about being an inviting space where people can come in and be valued, fill up, and also have an opportunity to meet Jesus.”
— Amber Williams
2. Prepare your hearts and home as a family before hosting.
Make heart prep a family affair: pray, read a liturgy or Scripture, and discuss the goals to serve and encourage guests.
Establish boundaries and areas that may be off limits. Set aside or put away toys/items that are valuable, to ensure everyone has a great experience.
“One of the prayers that we often say as a family is, ‘We want to be a life-giving presence to whoever comes into our home tonight.’”— Amber Williams
3. Look for opportunities to practice hospitality, but recognize when your family needs a break.
Introduce yourself to someone new after church and begin building relationships.
Hospitality can happen while you do life. Be open to allowing others in while you cook or do the dishes.
Take inventory of where your family is. It’s okay to say “no” or “we need a break” sometimes.
“Biblical hospitality is about being a “there YOU are” person instead of a “here I am” person. Instead of waiting for someone to come toward me, I’m going to go toward them and seek to make them feel honored and at home.”— Christine Hoover
“I can be hospitable while life is still going on. Life doesn’t have to stop in order to be hospitable and I think that that’s important for people to see too. Young people, singles, ‘Come join me while I’m doing life, and we can talk.’”
— Amber Williams
QUOTES “The greatest sermon we can ever preach is just living our lives as Christians in front of other people. That has been the most impactful for me in my own life, watching people live their lives. I’m not saying we put ourselves on the stage and perform perfectly, but they’re seeing an applied sermon, an applied gospel lived out around the table or on the couch or wherever.”
— Christine Hoover
LINKS FROM THE SHOW Head over to www.ministrywivespodcast.com to check out the great content already on the site!
Books: Every Moment Holy and The Gospel Comes with a House Key
CONNECT Connect with Amber
Connect with Christine
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Visit How to Thrive as a Pastor’s Wife to access Christine’s resources for ministry wives like you!
The difficulties of life as a ministry wife can often leave us feeling discouraged, and sometimes, when our expectations for life and ministry go unmet, we may even find ourselves feeling deep disappointment with God. My guest today, Kathy Litton, understands this feeling and joins me to discuss how we can face discouragement in ministry.
Kathy lives in Mobile, AL with husband Dr. Ed Litton, pastor of Redemption Church. She knows the sting of death and the journey of loss against the backdrop of a loving Savior who proved to be faithful and good. Kathy is the Director of Planter Spouse Development at the North American Mission Board, as well as a mother and grandmother. Listen as Kathy discusses ministry wives balancing the reality of disappointment and unmet expectations with a God who is faithful even in the darkest times.
EPISODE GUIDE 1. You will face unmet expectations as a planting wife in ministry.
The church plant site might not be what was expected, the community response lackluster, or the planting team not as helpful as anticipated.
When there is a gap between expectations and outcome, disappointment usually follows.
It’s okay to feel disheartened when the ministry isn’t what we hoped for, but we cannot remain disappointed in God without affecting our faith in Him.
“That’s the struggle in ministry: taking disappointment–a reality that’s really not coming together like you anticipate it–and not turning it into deep discouragement.”— Kathy Litton
2. God doesn’t forsake us when we are discouraged. He wants to give us truth and support to walk through the dark times.
Be genuine and go to God when afraid or dismayed or you will feed the bitterness of disappointment.
Remain in the Word every day. Don’t allow emotions to steal His truth from you.
Be vulnerable with another woman about the discouragement you are experiencing. As leaders, God doesn’t expect us to pretend there isn’t a struggle. We need support and community.
“Isaiah 41:10 addresses someone’s fear and dismay. We can feel both those things and still be in a right relationship with God. But we have to lean into His strength to navigate our soul and not be dangerously led by emotions and responses to disappointing things.”— Kathy Litton
3. Our husbands need our honesty and our empathy.
You are partners in ministry, one flesh before God. Avoid hiding your reality from your husband.
Don’t explode on him. Prayerfully consider your timing and words, and then be honest with your struggles.
Husbands are struggling, too. Don’t explain or dismiss their pain, honor it. Offer love and affirmation when he is vulnerable about struggles.
“We don’t want to be another squeaky wheel in our husband’s life and yet that is not true. He needs to know where you are. He needs to be aware of your struggle, and you’re not being a brave little soldier by keeping that from him. He wants to shepherd.”— Kathy Litton
QUOTES “Just because circumstances are not good does not mean God is not good.”
— Kathy Litton
“The balance of disappointment with God is to still be able to see His blessings in the middle of it. It sounds like a contrast in terms, but we have to walk by faith in those dark moments. We have to take our disappointment to Him but also remember His undeserved kindness, goodness, and graciousness.”
— Kathy Litton
LINKS FROM THE SHOW Disappointment with God
Head over to www.ministrywivespodcast.com to check out the great content already on the site!
CONNECT Connect with KathyFacebook // SEND Network Spouse Development Facebook Group // Instagram // Twitter
Connect with ChristineFacebook // Instagram // Books
Visit How to Thrive as a Pastor’s Wife to access Christine’s resources for ministry wives like you!
My name is Christine Hoover, and I’m starting a new podcast in partnership with the North American Mission Board focused on helping and encouraging ministry wives. In the Ministry Wives Podcast with Christine Hoover, you’ll hear from incredible guests who voice the issues and questions we all face in ministry. There will be “how-to” episodes on discipling women and hospitality, conversations about anxiety, longevity in ministry, and knowing which needs God is calling you to meet. We will receive insight, tools, and hope regarding those issues, reminding us of the joys of serving the Lord in ministry.
I am a pastor’s wife, mom of three boys, Bible teacher, and author of six books, including The Church Planting Wife, Messy Beautiful Friendship as well as my newest release, How to Thrive as a Pastor’s Wife. This new podcast – Ministry Wives – is an extension of the resources I’ve already created and will allow us, together, to explore how ministry impacts us and how we can impact others in the name of Christ.
Join me if you’re looking for hope, perspective, and practical advice regarding your role.
Be sure to check out ministrywivespodcast.com
CONNECT
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Visit How to Thrive as a Pastor’s Wife to access Christine’s resources for ministry wives like you!
Christine talks with Gregg & Kelly Matte. Gregg serves as the pastor of Houston’s First Baptist Church. The Mattes share wise advice about creating healthy rhythms of rest and renewal as individuals, as a couple, and for their family. They talk about Sabbath days, turning “off” ministry at the end of each day, and how (and why) they take sabbaticals.
LINKS FROM THE SHOWHouston’s First Baptist Church // Breakaway Ministries // Gregg’s book Capture the Moment // Send Relief
CHRISTINE’S NEW BOOK FOR PASTORS’ WIVES
Amazon // Barnes & Noble // Lifeway // Baker Books // Christianbook.com // Find out more about the book and download the discussion guides: howtothriveasapastorswife.com
LIFEWAY’S ONLINE BIBLE STUDYInfo on Seek First the Kingdom // Register for the study with Lifeway
REVIEW BY FAITH ON ITUNES
**CONNECT
Connect with Gregg**Facebook // Twitter
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Music for By Faith was created by The Silver Pages
Artwork for By Faith was created by Reed Harmon
Today’s episode of By Faith is a bit different, because it’s actually an episode of a different podcast called The Glass House. The Glass House is a podcast hosted by Ben and Lynley Mandrell. Ben is the president of Lifeway, but before that he was a pastor at a church in Colorado. He and Lynley are prioritizing investing into pastors through this role at Lifeway, and to that end they’ve created The Glass House. Christine and her husband Kyle were guests on The Glass House in 2021. This is that episode.
LINKS FROM THE SHOWThe Glass House Podcast // The audiobook of How to Thrive as a Pastor’s Wife
CHRISTINE’S NEW BOOK FOR PASTORS’ WIVES
Amazon // Barnes & Noble // Lifeway // Baker Books // Christianbook.com // Find out more about the book and download the discussion guides: howtothriveasapastorswife.com
REVIEW BY FAITH ON ITUNES
**CONNECT
Connect with Ben Mandrell**Twitter // Instagram // Website
Connect with Lynley MandrellInstagram
Connect with ChristineWebsite // Facebook // Instagram // Twitter // Books
Sign up for Christine’s monthly newsletter
Music for By Faith was created by The Silver Pages
Artwork for By Faith was created by Reed Harmon