The Learning Laborers: Recent Episodes
The Learning Laborers
Denver is a missionary and Taylor is a pastor. Both are doctorate of ministry students. They are passionate about bridging the gap between scholarship and ministry. They love to study the Bible and theology, but they also feel called by Christ to labor in the fields of ministry. Sometimes people in ministry are led to believe they must choose between being a capable scholar and having a fruitful ministry. The Learning Laborers believe that the opposite is true. When brought together in the right way, scholarship enhances ministry and ministry experience also enhances scholarship.
In this season two finale, Denver and Taylor reflect on the last 14 episodes and also share about the topics they are currently researching. Denver is studying the Transfiguration of Jesus and its impact on Peter, James, and John. What was the significance of this bizarre experience? And why did Moses and Elijah show up for it?
Taylor has been spurred on by our conversation with Spencer Owen to dig even deeper into the concept of atonement. He briefly discusses the term “atonement” and how it relates to the sacrifices outlined in Leviticus. Where did this English word “at-one-ment” even come from?
Write us at learninglaborers@gmail.com to let us know what your favorite episode of Season Two was. We also welcome suggestions for future episode topics or guests! Thank you for listening and being a part of this learning journey with us!
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- The Transfiguration of Christ (Patrick Schreiner)
- This is My Beloved Son (Andreas Andreopoulos)
- Lamb of the Free (Andrew Rillera)
Continuing our conversation with Spencer Owen, Denver and Taylor discuss the atonement and the implications our theories of atonement have on how we view God, salvation, and our own discipleship to Jesus.
Spencer provides several resources if you are interested in hearing more.
- A Journey through the World of Leviticus by Mark Scarlata
- Welcoming Gifts by Father Jeremy Davis
- The Day the Revolution Began by NT Wright
- Lamb of the Free by Andrew Rillera
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podcast.
What is the significance of Jesus' death? What exactly happens on the cross?
These and other questions related to Jesus' death and the idea of "atonement" are tackled in this episode. Denver and Taylor have a conversation with Spencer Owen, and the focus is on a close reading of Isaiah 53. We seek to understand how Jesus' death is conceptualized and given significance by the authors of the Bible.
This is a two-part episode, so stay tuned for the next episode.
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podcast.
What does trinitarian theology have to do with prayer? How can we inspire our communities of faith to engage in movements of prayer? What does it look like to pray the Scriptures?
In this episode, Denver and Taylor have a delightful chat with the passionate Sam McVay. Sam is keen to explore trinitarian theology - not just on a theoretical level, but also as it relates to the nitty-gritty, everyday life of the church, and especially the church’s prayer life. Sam walks us through a variety of subjects, including the relational dynamics of the trinity, the importance of theologically-centered prayer in the life of the Church, the practice of praying the Scriptures, the primary place of the Lord’s Prayer, and ways to help believers get excited about an hour-long prayer meeting!
Sam McVay is the founder and president of Disciple Nations, a ministry support network based in Wichita, Kansas which seeks to encourage and equip ministry leaders who engage in prayer and disciple-making initiatives. Be sure to check out the Lord’s Prayer App, along with other resources mentioned in the episode:
- Delighting in the Trinity (Michael Reeves)
- Praying Like Monks, Living Like Fools (Tyler Staton)
- Answering God (Eugene Peterson)
- Destined for the Throne (Paul Billheimer)
- Praying the Bible (Donald S. Whitney)
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
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Should our eschatology make us fearful or hopeful? Is there any Scriptural evidence for some kind of coming Rapture event? How should we approach the difficult and complex topic of Last Things?
In this episode, Taylor and Denver sit down with Dr. Matthew Halstead to talk about his new book, The End of the World as You Know It: What the Bible Really Says about the End Times (And Why It's Good News). Matthew is a superb guide into all things eschatological, bringing a wealth of Scriptural knowledge, but also a pastor's heart to approach this conversation with humility and charity. Whatever your particular views on the end times, we think you will really enjoy hearing from Matthew's perspective.
Matthew is the Associate Professor of Biblical Studies at Eternity Bible College and also authored Paul and the Meaning of Scripture.
- Surprised by Hope (N.T. Wright)
- Reading Revelation Responsibly (Michael J. Gorman)
- The Rise and Fall of Dispensationalism (Daniel G. Hummel)
- The NIV Application Commentary: Revelation (Craig S. Keener)
- Unholy Allegiances (David A. DeSilva)
- Discovering Revelation (David A. DeSilva)
- Apocalypse and Allegiance (J. Nelson Kraybill)
- Tyndale New Testament Commentary: Revelation (Ian Paul)
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podcast.
What is the Apocrypha? Why is it included in some Bibles and not in others? Is it safe for an evangelical Protestant to read these “hidden” books?!
Denver and Taylor sit down with Matthew McBirth to discuss these questions and others related to the study of Second Temple Jewish literature. Matthew is a Professor of Bible and Ministry at Ozark Christian College in Joplin, Missouri. In this episode, Matthew does a great job explaining why it is so important for students of the Bible to be familiar with works like those found in the Apocrypha, and how this knowledge can enhance their understanding of Scripture within its ancient context.
Here are links to the fantastic resources that Matthew and Taylor mentioned towards the end of the episode:
Origin of the Bible (Philip W. Comfort, ed.)
Introducing the Apocrypha (David DeSilva)
David DeSilva YouTube Video
The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha (James H. Charlesworth, ed.)
Discovering Second Temple Literature (Malka Z. Simkovich)
Malka Simkovich OnScript Episode
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podcast.
Has our traditional, familiar version of the Christmas story distanced us from the Bible's version? Were Mary and Joseph really turned away from inhospitable innkeepers? Did they trek to Bethlehem in the middle of the night? Was Jesus born in a stable? Taylor and Denver dive into Luke 2 as to provide a fresh reading of a familiar (perhaps too familiar) story.
Here is a link to an image of a first century Palestinian home.
See also chapter one in Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes by Kenneth Bailey.
Cited Luke Commentaries:
- Diane Chen, NCC
- RT France, Teach the Text
- Mikeal Parsons, Paideia
See also this blog post on Luke commentaries from Taylor.
Denver and Taylor interview Lois Tverberg about the Jewishness of Jesus, the importance of understanding Jesus in his Jewish context, and why that matters for how we interact with scripture. If you are interested in learning more, Lois has several books that you can purchase at these links:
- Sitting at the Feet of Rabbi Jesus
- Walking in the Dust of Rabbi Jesus
- Reading the Bible with Rabbi Jesus
Also, here are some other resources that are mentioned throughout the podcast episode:
Books:
- Our Father Abraham by Marvin Wilson
- Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus by David Bivin
- Jesus the Jewish Theologian by Brad H. Young
Websites:
- Center for Judaic Christian Studies (Dwight A. Pryor)
- Jerusalem Perspective
What is a graphic Hebrew love song doing in our Bibles? Must the Song of Songs be read as an allegory in order to contribute to our spiritual formation? What wisdom does this ancient poem have for Christians today?
In this episode, Taylor interviews Denver about the greatest love song ever written. They discuss the song’s history of interpretation as well as its theological significance and relevance for Christ followers. Denver contends that the song provides a theological defense of the goodness of physical reality and human romance, as well as an important (though often neglected) voice in the current debates within the church regarding gender roles.
Resources:
Song of Songs (NICOT) by Tremper Longman III
Curse-Free Love: The Rich Theology of the Song of Songs by Denver Rhodes
Song of Songs (Bible Project Article)
Have you ever wondered what it would be like to pastor missionaries? That's exactly the kind of ministry that Steve Henry engages in every day. Steve has been a pastor, a missionary, a sender of missionaries, and is currently a pastoral coach to missionaries serving overseas.
Denver and Taylor ask Steve about this unique ministry calling, as well as the topic of missionary care more generally. Steve describes the biblical basis of missionary care, the primary factors causing missionaries to return from the field, as well as best practices for churches who have a heart to care for their missionaries.
Resources:
Perspectives on the World Christian Movement (ed. Winter & Hawthorne)
Serving as Senders by Neal Pirolo
Holding the Rope by Ryan Martin
Healthy, Resilient, & Effective in Cross-Cultural Ministry by Laura Mae Gardner
To the Golden Shore by Courtney Anderson
John G. Paton: Missionary to the New Hebrides by John Paton
The Upstream Collective
Barnabas International
Global Member Care Network
Should we connect passages from Revelation to current events, such as the tragic crisis in Israel-Palestine? How can we cultivate a tov culture within the church? How can pastors stay up-to-date on the state of New Testament scholarship?
These and many questions are addressed by Dr. Scot McKnight on this episode of the Learning Laborers. Scot is the Julius R. Mantey Chair of New Testament at Northern Seminary and has written a plethora of books on the New Testament. He has a knack for being able to write books not only for other academics, but also for pastors, ministers, and the church at large.
Here are links to some of the many books mentioned throughout the episode:
Revelation for the Rest of Us by Scot McKnight
A Church Called Tov and Pivot by Scot McKnight
Everyday Bible Study Series by Scot McKnight
Jesus and the Victory of God by N. T. Wright
Judaism by EP Sanders
The New Testament and the People of God by N. T. Wright
King Jesus Gospel by Scot McKnight
A Fellowship of Differents by Scot McKnight
Pastor Paul by Scot McKnight
Would aliens bear the image of God? Would they need their own divine incarnation? Would God expect Christians to evangelize alien worlds?
In part two of their discussion on extra-terrestrial life, Taylor walks Denver through some helpful theological treatments of this topic by Andrew Davison and Michael Heiser. Taylor makes a thorough case for why the topic of aliens can actually lead us to think more deeply about a variety of theological topics, such as the fall, the incarnation, and the eschaton.
- Astrobiology and Christian Doctrine by Andrew Davison
- Aliens and Demons - Documentary by Michael Heiser
- The Façade - Novel by Michael Heiser
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podcast.
Would the discovery of extra-terrestrial, intelligent life dismantle our Christian faith? Does the Bible have room for the existence of aliens? How should we as Christ followers approach conversations about aliens and UAP's?
In this two-part conversation, Taylor walks Denver through the topic of aliens and Christian theology. In part one, Taylor explains why this bizarre topic has gained so much attention over the past year and he gives some examples of typical Christian responses. Taylor argues that, if handled correctly, pastors can use these conversations to help church members think in new (and yet ancient) ways about Christian theology.
- Astrobiology and Christian Doctrine by Andrew Davison
- Aliens and Demons - Documentary by Michael Heiser
- The Façade - Novel by Michael Heiser
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podcast.
Are there any situations in which Christians are permitted to use violence? How are Jesus followers supposed to think about military service?
Join us as we explore this complex but important topic. The episode begins with Taylor asking Denver about his journey to the position of Christian nonviolence. They are then joined by Leland Stephens, a former US marine and church planter. He shares about his journey to faith, his experience as a Christ follower in the Marine corps, and the discussions he has had over the years with fellow servicemen and seminarians about violence and military service. Leland's perspective is thoughtful, nuanced, and informed by real-world experience.
- Nonviolence by Preston Sprinkle
- Caesar and the Lamb by George Kalantzis
- Postcards from Babylon by Brian Zahnd
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podcast.
How do hospitality practices play into God's mission for the Church? What does it mean for Christians to be not just good hosts, but also good guests, to those they are trying to reach?
In this episode, Taylor interviews Denver about his recent research into missional hospitality. They look at various examples throughout Scripture which show God's sent ones taking on a posture of needfulness upon entering a new community, and how that leads to an outpouring of God's blessing. They discuss Elijah and the Sidonian widow, the incarnation, Jesus and the Samaritan woman, and the instructions of Jesus in Matthew 10.
- Saved by Faith and Hospitality by Joshua W. Jipp.
- The Gospel Comes with a House Key by Rosaria Butterfield.
- The Christian Imagination by Willie James Jennings
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podcast.
Denver and Taylor wrap up the first season. As we take a break for the Summer, be sure to catch up on any episodes that you have missed. See below for how you can enter the book giveaway!
Here is how you can enter the giveaway:
- Like our page on Facebook
- Share the Book Giveaway post on our Facebook
- Bonus entry: share your favorite episode of the season 1 and tag "The Learning Laborers" on Facebook
Also be sure to follow us on Spotify or subscribe on Apple Podcasts
Denver and Taylor interview Matthew Bates about his newest book: Why the Gospel? Matthew has written extensively on the use of "gospel" in the New Testament, arguing that its meaning is centered on the kingship of Jesus. In this most recent work, Dr. Bates explores the why behind the Gospel - Why did God send Jesus to be our king? Why do we need a human and divine king in the first place? And why does this good news matter for the way that we as Christians actually live our lives?
Matthew Bates (Ph.D., University of Notre Dame) is a professor of theology at Quincy University in Quincy, Illinois. His main teaching area is the Bible and early Christian literature. Matthew is also the co-founder of the OnScript podcast, which is a great resource for staying up-to-date on books being published in the fields of theology and biblical studies. Other works by Dr. Bates include Salvation by Allegiance Alone, Gospel Allegiance, and The Gospel Precisely.
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
What was going on during the Second Temple Period? And how did that build the social-political context of the first century? Lastly, then, how does this help us read the NT better?
In this episode, Denver interviews Taylor about some of his recent research. Taylor is looking at how the first century church navigated their political climate, but in order to evaluate that, we must see the church in its first century context. Beginning from exile, Taylor and Denver summarize Judea through the Persian, Greek, and Hasmonean (Maccabean) eras, all the way to Roman occupation in 63 BC. They then try to draw out some implications for understanding the NT.
- From the Maccabees to the Mishnah by Shaye Cohen
- Resident Aliens by Hauerwas and Willimon
- World Upside Down by Kavin Rowe
- The World of the NT by Green and McDonald
- Dictionary of NT Background by Evans and Porter
- Imperialism and Jewish Society by Seth Schwartz
- Seven Events that Shaped the NT World by Warren Carter
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podca
Taylor and Denver sit down for a chat with pastor and life-long learner Gary Pauley. In the first part of the episode, Gary shares about his academic research into the historical roots of the social gospel and its relationship to kingdom theology. Gary believes understanding these theological movements can help pastors as they navigate the relationship of politics and the church today.
In the second half of the episode, Gary shares about the various ministry roles he has taken on over the years, including his time as a chaplain in a hospital and then later in a maximum security prison. These contexts have greatly influenced the way Gary does theology and ministry today as a pastor at First Baptist Church of Shawnee.
Here are links to the resources mentioned throughout the episode:
- Political Gospel by Patrick Schreiner
- The Kingdom of Christ by Russell Moore
- Kingdom Conspiracy by Scot McKnight
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podcast.
Denver and Taylor have a fantastic conversation with Renjy Abraham, the Dean of Scholarship at BibleProject. If you do not know about BibleProject, it is a nonprofit, crowdfunded organization that produces 100% free Bible videos, podcasts, blogs, classes, and educational Bible resources to help make the biblical story accessible to everyone everywhere. From page one to the final word, they believe the Bible is a unified story that leads to Jesus. Definitely explore all of their great resources.
Renjy shares how he leads the team of scholars that develop content for BibleProject. They employ something they like to call "the paradigm," which highlights the importance of intertextuality in scripture, meditation, and studying in community. Fascinating stuff!
Towards the end of the episode, we also discuss some of Renjy's research around a biblical theology of unity and diversity.
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podcast.
Taylor and Denver interview Tommy Preson Phillips, lead pastor and elder of Watermark Church in Tampa, FL. The discussion touches on various topics from ministering to those who are "deconstructing," staying up to date with scholarship, pastoral ministry, etc. But the primary topic of discussion concerns Paul's letter to the Romans. Tommy did his Masters in New Testament with Scot McKnight at Northern Seminary and devoted his studies to the letter to the Romans. You can hear more from Tommy by visiting his blog, and you can listen to his music here.
Here are links to resources mentioned throughout this episode.
- Reading Romans Backwards by Scot McKnight
- Romans by Sarah Heaner Lancaster
- Romans: A Theological and Pastoral Commentary by Michael Gorman
- Under the Unpredictable Plant by Eugene Peterson
- You Are What You Love by James K. A. Smith
- Ever Ancient, Ever New by Winfield Bevins
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podcast.
What did first-century baptisms look like? How was it similar to other rituals of the time? How was it different?
In this episode Taylor interviews Denver about baptism in the early church. Denver believes that a thoughtful examination of the historical and cultural context of this important ritual will lead to an even richer understanding of its theological significance for the church today. Together, Denver and Taylor explore immersion rituals in the first century, John the Baptizer's ministry, Jesus' baptism, and early Christian baptism. They end with a discussion about how church leaders might incorporate these ideas into their own baptism practices.
- Check out Denver's blog series on baptism.
- For more on the Jewish ritual context, see Judaism: Practice and Belief by E.P. Sanders
- For the Greco-Roman ritual context, see At the Origins of Christian Worship or Destroyer of the Gods by Larry Hurtado
- For the political/cultural significance of baptism, see Caesar and the Sacrament by Alan Streett
- For a socio-historical examination of first-century baptism, see chapter 5 in The First Urban Christians by Wayne Meeks
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podcast.
Why do we need mission agencies? And how should churches relate to them?
In this episode, Denver sits down with Dr. Robert Blincoe to discuss the two structures of the church: ecclesial bodies and apostolic bands. Bob believes there is good evidence that these two structures go all the way back to the first century, and he has studied their dynamic relationship throughout church history. As a leader and mobilizer of missionaries to Muslim-majority cultures, Bob is passionate about helping churches and mission agencies to cooperate as they recognize one another's unique contributions to God's kingdom purposes. Bob received his Master of Divinity and Master of Theology degrees from Fuller Theological Seminary, and he completed his PhD under Dr. Ralph Winter at William Carey International University.
- Bob Blincoe's Blog
- Ethnic Realities and the Church: Lessons from Kurdistan by Bob Blincoe
- A New Social Contract Relating Mission Societies to Ecclesiastical Structures by Bob Blincoe
- Perspectives on the World Christian Movement by Ralph Winter
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podcast.
Denver and Taylor have a chat with Nika Spaulding. They discuss her role as the resident theologian at her church, where she leads their midweek theology classes. They explore some topics in scholarship that Nika has incorporated in her teachings - things like Barclay’s work on grace and textual criticism. Nika also talks about how she inspires a culture of learning in her church. She gets into how to instill ownership in those taking the classes, and they discuss the best ways to curate research and content for classes. Really good stuff - enjoy the episode!
- Destroyer of the Gods by Larry Hurtado
- World Upside Down by Kavin Rowe
- Reading Romans in Pompeii by Peter Oakes
- First Urban Christians by Wayne Meeks
- A Church Called Tov by McKnight and Barringer
- Hinds' Feet on High Places by Hannah Hurnard
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podcast.
Referencing the work of John Barclay, Denver and Taylor discuss the notion of "grace." What is the grace of God? How does understanding gift-giving in the ancient world help us understand grace? How does the circularity or reciprocity of grace impact how we think about salvation and works? And if you are a ministry laborer that is interested in studying further, Taylor gives three suggestions. Here are three books referenced at the end of the episode: Paul and the Gift, Paul and the Power of Grace, and Gospel Allegiance.
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
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Grant Porter grew up in Australia but served with Operation Mobilization beginning in 1982 when he joined a short-term outreach in Singapore and Malaysia. Grant has a heart for mobilizing, evangelism and church planting. He has a PhD in Theology from the Vrije University in Amsterdam. He met his wife, Laura, while serving with OM, they have three children and three grandchildren. Grant has served 35 years with OM in the Middle East, including in Jordan, Cyprus, Syria and Lebanon. Grant was the field director for the Near East and helped start several ministries, including the Love Middle East program and the Near East Initiatives Network. He currently works as a program director for a Christian philanthropic foundation overseeing the Middle East, North Africa and Eurasian regions.
Denver, Taylor, and Grant discuss Dr. Porter's dissertation that researched missions in the middle east in light of the early church. Should Acts be used as a manual for modern church planting or ministry? How are Muslim converts navigating their identity in Christ? This was a fascinating conversation!
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
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Brenden is the Residency and Formation Minister at Third City Christian Church in Grand Island, Nebraska. Brenden is also in the DMin of New Testament Context program at Northern Seminary. His wife Rachel also serves at Third City as the Outreach Minister and they have two kids - Haden and Scotty.
In this episode, Denver & Taylor talk with Brenden about how to teach the Bible with a nod to scholarship and keep it interesting. We discuss the importance of literary and contextual approaches to scripture. Brenden and Taylor also have a similar thesis around "gospel" in its first century context, so they discuss that research and how it has implications for the church today.
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
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Denver and Taylor interview Matt Kimbrough. Matt currently serves at Southwest Baptist University in Bolivar, Missouri as the associate professor of theology inn the division of Christian Ministry. He earned a PhD in Biblical Studies from Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. In addition to writing articles, blog posts, and academic papers, he is also co-author of Square One: Back to the Basics and "New Testament Backgrounds," and "Hebrews," in Approaching the New Testament: A Guide for Students. The main topic of discussion is Matt's book “Reclaiming the Church as Family,” which you can purchase at this link.
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podcast.
Denver and Taylor both share instances of how scholarship has helped their ministry. Denver shares how his study of parables has encouraged his missionary team to tell good stories as part of their evangelism. Taylor shares how scholarship has generally helped him to hold up the Bible as a beautiful book to explore, and more specifically he talks about how his study of Jewish interpretation has shaped his teaching of the Bible.
Check out our website for articles and more resources.
Support us on Patreon. All funds are used to design, create, host, and advertise the podcast.
Denver and Taylor have a short conversation about why the Learning Laborers exists and what listeners can expect from the podcast.
Check out our website.
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An introductory episode from Denver and Taylor. Taylor is a pastor and Denver is a ministry. Both are Doctorate of Ministry students.
We love to study the Bible and theology, but we also feel called by Christ to labor in the fields of ministry. Sometimes people in our position are led to believe they must choose between being a capable scholar and having a fruitful ministry. But we believe that the opposite is true. When brought together in the right way, scholarship enhances ministry and ministry experience also enhances scholarship!