The Church Lobby: Recent Episodes
Karl Vaters
Karl Vaters interviews church leaders about the important issues of faith and ministry. It's called The Church Lobby because:
The church lobby is where the church meets and does ministry.
The church lobby moves conversations from the stage to the floor.
The church lobby is a good place to take the temperature of a church’s health.
Karl Vaters is the author of several books, including Small Church Essentials and The Grasshopper Myth. Formerly known as Can This Work In a Small Church?, this podcast primarily looks at church leadership from a small church perspective.
How do you start a YouTube channel at the age of 81, and reach 25K subscribers in less than 6 months? That’s what pastor Mike Bayer did. Now he’s at over 44K subscribers, and it’s providing him with a second source of income in his later years of ministry.
Karl Vaters talks with Mike about how he made YouTube work for him, plus:
- The importance of intentional ministry to senior adults
- How to use your church’s YouTube channel for better engagement
- Ideas for making an income outside the walls of the church
- Ministry adjustments for the fourth quarter of life
And more.
Links:* Old Me Living Better: YouTube Channel * Old Me Living: Skool channel * Mike’s Facebook Page * SnugSafe.com * The Aging Pastorate: Sam Rainer on the Looming Pastoral Retirement Crunch (Ep 128)
There is no bonus content for this episode.
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Karl Vaters interviews Todd Wilson about some of the lessons that we need to learn when we look back at the Church Growth Movement.
Todd is the co-founder and founding CEO of Exponential, so he critiques the Church Growth Movement as one of its leaders. This gives him a unique perspective we need to hear.
Karl and Todd talk about the content of Todd’s new book, How Did We Get Here? Examining 70 Years of the Church Growth Movement.
They cover topics such as:
- How the modern church has adopted a Consumer-Driven Operating System
- How Donald McGavran’s Church Growth methods and language were co-opted
- Where the “church as business” model came from
- What must come next
- And more.
Links: How Did We Get Here? Examining 70 Years of the Church Growth Movement (Free e-book w registration) * How Did We Get Here? Examining 70 Years of the Church Growth Movement (On Amazon) * Multipliers: Leading Beyond Addition (Free e-book) * Email Todd at Todd@multipliers.org * Techsoup.org * The Unexpected Origins of the Church Growth Movement, with Dr. Gary McIntosh (The Church Lobby, Ep 027) * De-sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next* (by Karl Vaters)
Bonus Content Summary12 Dilemmas Within the Church’s Prevailing Operating System, with Todd Wilson
In Todd Wilson’s book, How Did We Get Here? Looking Back to Look Forward, he refers to the current church systems as functioning under a faulty operating system, and he describes 12 dilemmas within that system.
In this subscriber-only content, Karl Vaters talks with Todd about several of these dilemmas.
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“What's wrong with being just a normal church?” That’s the question at the center of Thomas Austin’s song, Normal Church.
In this episode, Karl Vaters interviews Thomas Austin about the content of his song, including where the idea for it came from, some of the criticism he’s received for it, and what message he’s trying to convey through it.
Some of what comes through in this conversation includes:
- Thomas’ love for the church
- His (and Karl’s) desire to see normal churches not try to be something they’re not
- The problems that happen when normal churches try to copy the megachurch model
- The desire for authenticity among younger generations
And more.
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Discontent is a tricky monster. It’s so easy to spot it in others, but easy to overlook in ourselves.
Karl Vaters interviews pastor Chris Maxwell about what contentment is not (laziness or mediocrity), what it is (an inner peace), what causes so much discontentment, why contentment is essential for healthy lives and ministries, and so much more.
This is based on the content of Chris’ new book, Contentment: What You’re Searching for May Already Be Yours.
Bonus Content SummaryHow to Practice Contentment In Our Calling, with Chris Maxwell
Karl Vaters talks with Chris Maxwell about 6 simple steps we can practice to overcome discontent and embrace the inner peace of contentment, including”
- Redefine Success
- Embrace Limits
- Celebrate the Ordinary
- Stay Curious, Not Competitive
- Let Joy Lead You
- Stay With God, Not Just the Goal
This is based on the content of Chris’ new book, Contentment: What You’re Searching for May Already Be Yours.
Links: Contentment: What You’re Searching for May Already Be Yours.* * The Bible Project
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Kevin Foster is the founding pastor of LifeBridge Community Church in Fresno, CA, a church that made a radical shift in emphasis several years ago when the brokenness of the people in their lower income city led them to run to the brokenness.
Karl and Kevin talk about:
- Redefining success in ministry
- How young leaders are not rejecting ministry—they’re rejecting the narrow definitions they’ve seen modeled
- A new way to look at church metrics
- How to finance ministry to broken people
and a lot more.
Links Run to the Brokenness: How Your Church Can Be the Center of Your Community* * RuntotheBrokenness.com
Bonus ContentHow to Overcome the Occupational Hazards of Ministry, with Kevin Foster
Karl Vaters talks with Kevin Foster about the hazards of ministry that so many pastors experience, and how to overcome them.
They include:
1) Becoming a Casualty of Others’ Brokenness
2) Leading Through the Tension of Frustration
3) Comparing Yourself to Other Churches
Kevin is the founding pastor of LifeBridge Community Church in Fresno, CA, and the author of Run to the Brokenness: How Your Church Can Be the Center of Your Community.
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Karl Vaters talks with Sam Rainer about some massive changes that are happening, and how the looming pastoral shortage will affect everything about the way churches function in the next generation or two.
Based on Sam’s article, The Coming Massive Wave of Retiring Pastors and Church Staff, this conversation covers what caused this crisis along with some hopeful solutions including the rise of bi- and co-vocational ministry, opportunities for interim pastor ministry, the importance of planning your pastoral succession, and so much more.
Links:
- The Coming Massive Wave of Retiring Pastors and Church Staff (article)
- Church Answers
- Church Answers University certification program
- Calendly
- KarlVaters.com/OnDeck
Bonus Content
How To Prepare Your Church for Your Pastoral Retirement, with Sam Rainer
Karl Vaters talks with Sam Rainer about what you can do prepare your church if you’re a pastor who’s set to retire soon, including the following three proactive steps:
- Evaluate your leadership pipeline
- Create flexibility in your staffing model.
- Honor and utilize experienced pastors.
To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.
Mentioned in this episode:
On Deck Landing Page
Prayer is a foundation of a healthy Christian life and church. Karl Vaters talks with Chris Paavola about four strategic ways his church prays that can help any church lay a more solid foundation for health.
The foundation of this conversation is a talk Chris gives to pastors, titled 4 Ways Small Churches Can Grow in Prayer.
- Sunday Intercessory Prayer
- Prayer Services
- Prayerwalking
- A new way to take prayer requests
This last point comes straight from the Bible using the for/that method. It can make your church prayer request times feel less like gossip and more like the time of connection and intercession they’re meant to be.
Chris Paavola is a pastor in Battle Creek Michigan who has written and spoken extensively about prayer, including Pray What You See: A Five-Week Prayerwalk Challenge.
Bonus Content
One Statement, One Question: The Power of a Simple Witness in a Complicated World, with Chris Paavola
Karl Vaters talks with Chris Paavola about how the resurrection of Jesus changed (and still changes) everything, especially to cut through the clutter by bringing unbelievers into the real reason we believe what we believe.
One Statement: “That’s not why I believe.”
One Question: “What do you think happened on Easter morning?”
Links:
PrayForYourChurch.com
@chris_paavola on Instagram
@chris_paavola on X (Twitter)
Using AI To Find Great Sermon Illustrations, with Darrell Stetler (Ep 111)
Books:
Pray What You See: A Five-Week Prayerwalk Challenge
25 Prayers to Christmas: Praying through the Christmas story
52 Prayers for Your Church: Because there's so much to pray
The Seven Symbols of Ash: An Interactive Ash Wednesday Experience
Less for More: Seven fasts in seven weeks for more of Jesus
40 Prayers to Launch: 40 prayers to help people pray for your church plant’s launch
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Karl Vaters talks with Tim Walker about three important subjects: First, they talk about the new world of the “side hustle” culture, and why it can be an answer for pastors and churches to do more ministry with less stress.
Second, the importance of creating margin in our life, our finances, our time, our energy, and our families.
Third, Tim introduces us to the importance of time away from the church, the value of travel, and how to do this well without adding an additional financial burden, through the lessons he's learned about travel hacking.
Tim is the pastor of Restored Church in Wilkes-Barre, PA, and runs the Travel Multiplier website.
Links:
- Travel Multiplier
- Seats.aero
- Point.me
- The Church Lobby, Ep 86 with Tim Walker
There is no Bonus Content for this episode.
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Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Shaunti Feldhahn and Dr. James N. Sells about the state of mental and emotional care in our culture, and how churches are uniquely situated to alleviate these needs in healthy, life-giving ways.
The conversation focuses on the CARE strategy (Coordinated Attention, Restoration, and Encouragement), and how churches of any size can be better equipped to help, starting with renewing friendships, training a CARE coordinator, and more, based on the content of their book, When Hurting People Come to Church: How People of Faith Can Help Solve the Mental Health Crisis, which was named one of Karl’s top books of the year for 2025.
Links:
- When Hurting People Come to Church: How People of Faith Can Help Solve the Mental Health Crisis
- CARE Pyramids Illustrations
- My Top Nonfiction Books Of 2025
- When Hurting People Come to Church (Free first chapter)
- The Church Cares Initiative
- The Church Cares Kit
- Culture Making: Recovering Our Creative Calling (by Andy Crouch)
Bonus Content
Three Key People Every Church Needs to Help Hurting People, with Shaunti Feldhahn & James N. Sells
Your church doesn’t need a licensed counselor to help people with emotional needs. Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Shaunti Feldhahn & Dr. James N. Sells about the three key people every church should have in place to help the hurting people who come to every church.
This conversation is based on the content of their book, When Hurting People Come to Church: How People of Faith Can Help Solve the Mental Health Crisis, which was named one of Karl’s top books of the year for 2025.
To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.
Karl Vaters talks with Peyton Jones about the severe need for our churches to become better at the main command Jesus gave His church: making disciples.
Peyton is the author of several books, including the newly released, Discipology: The Art and Science of Making Disciples, which is the basis for this conversation.
The stats are troubling. In a recent survey, pastors acknowledged that discipleship is the aspect of church ministry that they do least well. And when church members are surveyed, only 23 percent of Christians say they were ever discipled one-on-one.
Peyton is a church planter and church planting specialist who is tackling this crisis head on. In his new book, Peyton uses the disciple-making pattern from the life of Jesus to describe the Discipology Flywheel, where three essential elements come together:
- Time—Where Disciples Are Formed
- Teaching—Where Disciples Are Trained
- Tactics—Where Disciples Are Sent
Links: Discipology: The Art and Science of Making Disciples * Church Planting For Everyone, with Peyton Jones (Podcast Ep 021) * Church Plantology: The Art and Science of Planting Churches* * Few Pastors Believe Discipleship Tops Their Churches’ Efforts (article) * The State of Discipleship (article)
Bonus Content SummaryThe SHALOM Star: Six Aspects of Life that Find Balance as God Permeates Them, with Peyton Jones
Karl Vaters talks with Peyton Jones about Peyton’s acronym for balanced Christian living, based on the word and the concept of Shalom. From the content of Peyton’s new book, Discipology: The Art and Science of Making Disciples.
- Spirit: Your soul’s connection to God
- Honor: The areas of life you steward
- Affections: Your family and friendships
- Learning: Your intellect and creativity
- Others: Your allies on mission
- Mental: Your emotional well-being
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Karl Vaters interviews Darryl Dash, a long-time pastor in Toronto, Canada. Darryl recently wrote the article, Advice to New and Aspiring Pastors, for The Gospel Coalition, Canada in which raised several issues that are helpful, not just for younger pastors, but for anyone who wants to be a better pastor for the long haul.
Links: Advice to New and Aspiring Pastors * DashHouse.com * Gospel for Life Podcast * PrayerMate App * How to Grow: Applying the Gospel to All of Your Life * 8 Habits for Growth: A Simple Guide to Becoming More Like Christ * Preach Well: A Short Guide to Making Even the Average Sermon Much Better*
Bonus Content
8 Habits to Become More Like Christ, with Darryl Dash
Karl Vaters interviews Darryl Dash about the content of his helpful discipleship book, 8 Habits for Growth: A Simple Guide to Becoming More Like Christ. The habits include: the importance of spending time with God, daily Bible reading, involvement in a healthy local church, and more. This is a great book for discipleship in the local church, and this interview with Darryl will give you an idea of what it’s about and how to use it.
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Karl Vaters talks with Kurt W. Bubna about what to do if you’re a Christian leader who has betrayed people and broken trust. This conversation was sparked by the Facebook post, An Open Letter to Philip Yancey Regarding His Extramarital Affair, that Bubna wrote in early January.
So many have opined about Yancey, and understandably so, but most of them know little if anything about his situation, including Karl and Kurt. So, while this conversation was triggered by that news, it’s an attempt at a measured approach from a perspective that we need to hear—a pastor who broke trust and is rebuilding it again. This conversation focuses on practical help for anyone who is walking through a similar time of sinful behavior, by talking through Kurt’s helpful article, How to Rebuild Trust After You’ve Broken It.
Links:
- An Open Letter to Philip Yancey Regarding His Extramarital Affair
- How to Rebuild Trust After You’ve Broken It
- Kurt Bubna’s Amazon author page
- KurtBubna.com
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Karl Vaters talks to Laurie Graham about some of the big ways volunteerism has changed, and how we, as church leaders, can respond to these trends.
Laurie runs smallchurchministry.com, an online ministry that provides resources and support for volunteers and ministry leaders in smaller churches.
This is Laurie’s second time on the podcast (the last time she was known as Laurie Acker), and in this conversation she and Karl talk about how church volunteerism has been affected by people’s changing schedules, their desire for deeper meaning, the need to restore their trust, and more.
Links:
- Website: https://smallchurchministry.com/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/smallchurchministry/
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/smallchurchministry
- Creative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministry
- Small Church Network & Academy: https://smallchurchministry.com/membership/
Bonus Content SummaryRethinking Church Programs for Volunteer Flexibility, with Laurie Graham
Karl Vaters talks with Laurie Graham of SmallChurchMinistry.com about different ways we, as church leaders, can start to change church programs that were originally designed for the way people used to volunteer, into ministry that works for the more personal, seasonal way people live and commit today.
- Website: https://smallchurchministry.com/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/smallchurchministry/
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/smallchurchministry
- Creative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministry
- Small Church Network & Academy: https://smallchurchministry.com/membership/
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Karl Vaters talks through some helpful guidelines with Dave Ripper about how to read, meditate, and teach from the Bible in a richer, deeper way.
Dave is the lead pastor of Crossway Christian Church, a multicongregational church in southern New Hampshire, focused on spiritual formation, and is the author of Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus: Reading the Bible like Dallas Willard.
Karl and Dave explore who Dallas Willard was, and what his way of reading the Bible can do for us, including:
- Willard’s four steps on how to read the Bible
- A five-step outline for meditating on a text
- The IMMERSE method
- Preaching out of the overflow
- How to let God speak to the church instead imposing your ideas into the text or onto the congregation
Links:
- Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus: Reading the Bible like Dallas Willard, by Dave Ripper
- The Dallas Willard podcast
- DaveRipper.com
- Deeper Experiences with God Podcast, with Dave Ripper
- Dave Ripper on Instagram
- Dave Ripper on Facebook
- Contact Dave Ripper
Bonus video summary
Three Warnings from Dallas Willard about How Not to Read the Bible, with Dave Ripper
In this subscriber-only bonus material, Karl Vaters talks with pastor Dave Ripper, the author of Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus: Reading the Bible like Dallas Willard, about why Bible readers should stay away from:
- Bible roulette
- The “It’s all in the Bible” View
- Bible deism
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Have you ever gone to a church growth conference and been told “all healthy things grow?”
Karl Vaters talks with Jeff Hoglen about what’s happening behind that idea, and why it can be a problem for a lot of pastors and churches. The conversation is based on an article Jeff wrote, called “The Church Growth Lie No One Talks About.”
Karl and Jeff talk about what that lie is, why we keep believing it, and what to do, instead.
They also discuss alternative ways to look at church health and growth, including:
- How growth feels more like farming than fireworks
- How most real growth is slow, often invisible, and always hard
- How the slow seasons don’t have to discourage you
- How to deepen before you broaden
- How to pursue health over hype
- The importance of celebrating the small stuff
And more.
Links:
- The Church Growth Lie No One Talks About
- ChurchPlanting.com
- Canva
- ChatGPT
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Karl Vaters talks with Brad Edwards about the shift that’s happened over the last decade or so in how people perceive institutions, especially the institutional church.
In this conversation they talk about how the rise of radical individualism has replaced once-trusted institutions, why a distrust in institutions is problematic, and why institutions—especially the church—still matter.
Brad is a church planter and pastor of The Table Church in Lafayette, CO. He’s also the author of, The Reason for Church: Why the Body of Christ Still Matters in an Age of Anxiety, Division, and Radical Individualism. This conversation also includes an overview of the reasons behind the loss of institutionalism, and especially five Church Defeaters:
- Church Defeater 1: Spiritual Pragmatism
- Church Defeater 2: The Sacred Self
- Church Defeater 3: Counterfeit Institutions
- Church Defeater 4: (Un)Civil religions
- Church Defeater 5: Virtuous Victimhood
(CONGRATULATIONS to Brad on his book being named Book of the Year by Christianity Today magazine!)
Links:
- The Reason for Church: Why the Body of Christ Still Matters in an Age of Anxiety, Division, and Radical Individualism
- Mere Orthodoxy
BONUS TALK
Our Role in the Grand Narrative of Scripture, with Brad Edwards
Karl Vaters talks with Brad Edwards about the importance of understanding the metanarrative of scripture as a foundational teaching for life and faith.
In particular, their conversation addresses two storytelling terms. First, Main Character Syndrome, which helps us understand and clarify the dangers of the hyper-individualism of our current age. Second, the MacGuffin, a term coined by movie director Alfred Hitchcock that helps us see what our role in God’s story really is.
Links:
- The Reason for Church: Why the Body of Christ Still Matters in an Age of Anxiety, Division, and Radical Individualism
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Do you know how to spot if someone in your congregation has a gambling problem? Once it’s been spotted or confessed, do you know what to do?
Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Don Lichi about one of the fastest-growing addictions in the world, including:
- How is gambling defined?
- Why does it have such a strong grip on some people?
- Who is most likely to be addicted?
- How to get help
And more
Donald Lichi is vice president emeritus of Emerge Counseling Ministries, and author of the article, Is Gambling a Problem in the Church? You Bet! in Influence magazine.
Links:
- Is Gambling a Problem in the Church? You Bet! (article)
- Emerge Counseling Ministries
- Broken Windows of the Soul: A Pastor and Christian Psychologist Discuss Sexual Sins and the Prescription to Heal Them
- YouVersion Bible App
Bonus Chat
What to Do if You’re a Pastor with a Gambling Problem, with Donald Lichi
Pastors are not immune to the temptations of gambling and other addictions.
In this short conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Don Lichi about how to recognize those tendencies in yourself, and what to do if you’re trapped in it. They also talk about who you should/should not share these problems with, and how to engage in preventative measures.
Links:
- Is Gambling a Problem in the Church? You Bet! (article)
- Emerge Counseling Ministries
- Broken Windows of the Soul: A Pastor and Christian Psychologist Discuss Sexual Sins and the Prescription to Heal Them
To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.
Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Jeff Forrey about grief, recovery, and how your church can help people, both inside and outside the congregation, deal with grief in healthy ways.
Grief has no rules, but there are healthy ways through it. And churches—small churches especially—are uniquely suited to provide real comfort for people in these difficult seasons of loss.
Karl and Jeff talk about some important principles, including:
- Why do we need help with grief?
- What kind of damage can we experience if we don’t deal with grief properly?
- What's a typical time frame for experiencing grief?
- What common mistakes are made in responding to grievers?
And more
Jeff Forrey oversees GriefShare, which can come alongside your church to equip you to be a resource for people in need.
Links:
- GriefShare
- Church Initiative
- DivorceCare Session 1 Preview
- GriefShare on Facebook
- GriefShare on Instagram
- GriefShare on YouTube
- CCEF.org
- Grieving Room, by Leanne Friesen
There is no bonus material for this episode.
In recent decades, parachurch organizations have carved out an important space in church life and ministry.
Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Angie Ward about why it’s important for ministers to take a closer look at what the church is, what parachurch organizations bring to the mix, and how we can move forward more missionally, even as the emphasis on institutions diminishes.
Dr. Ward is director of the Doctor of Ministry program and associate professor of leadership and ministry at Denver Seminary. She’s also the author of Beyond Church and Parachurch: From Competition to Missional Extension, which is the basis for this conversation.
Links:
- Beyond Church and Parachurch: From Competition to Missional Extension
- Beyond the Local Church: How Apostolic Movements Can Change the World, by Sam Metcalf
- The Church and the Parachurch: An Uneasy Marriage (A Critical Concern Book), by Jerry E. White
- Polycentric Leadership: Church as a Discipleship Movement, with Dan White Jr. (The Church Lobby, Ep 039)
- Uncharted Leadership: 20 Case Studies to Help Ministry Leaders Adapt to Uncertainty, by Angie Ward
BONUS TALK
The Five Advantages Of Parachurch Organizations, with Dr. Angie Ward
Every parachurch ministry needs to flow from and/or point to the local church. So why do we need parachurch ministries, at all?
In this bonus conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Angie Ward about the five benefits that churches can gain from partnering with parachurch ministries in productive ways:
- Reach
- Specialization
- Lay involvement
- Promoting unity
- To call the local church to mission
Links:
Beyond Church and Parachurch: From Competition to Missional Extension
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If you’re a preaching pastor, you know what it means to feel the burden and the joy of preparing and preaching a sermon every Sunday. No matter how many years we’ve done it, we can always use a little more help to do it better.
Karl Vaters talks with Austin Carty about the craft of writing and delivering a weekly sermon, based on Austin’s latest book, Some of the Words Are Theirs: The Art of Writing and Living a Sermon. Austin is the pastor of Boulevard Baptist Church, a small congregation in Anderson, SC.
Karl and Austin talk about several of the aspects that go into sermon prep, including:
- The weekly call to biblical self-reflection
- How to decide what passage to preach from
- How to hook the listeners into the essence of the message
- Setting enough time to seriously prayerfully read, study and ponder the text
- Preaching from a posture of humble conviction rather than blind certainty
- And more
Links:
- Some of the Words Are Theirs: The Art of Writing and Living a Sermon
- The Pastor’s Bookshelf: Why Reading Matters for Ministry
- Why Reading Matters for Ministry, with Austin Carty (Ep 61)
- Vanderbilt Revised Common Lectionary
BONUS EPISODE (Subscribers Only)
Five Questions to Help You Preach a Well-balanced Sermon, with Austin Carty
One of the most important aspects in sermon prep and presentation today is making sure you know and acknowledge that there are points of view that are different from yours. But how do we recognize these points of view, while preaching the truth from God’s Word?
Austin Carty helps us negotiate this potential minefield in a short conversation with Karl Vaters, based on Austin’s new book, Some of the Words Are Theirs: The Art of Writing and Living a Sermon, by helping us ask these five questions:
- Have I made sweeping generalizations?
- Have I overargued my point?
- Have I taken into account my own biases?
- Have I considered other viable points of view?
- Have I sufficiently justified my claims?
Links:
Some of the Words Are Theirs: The Art of Writing and Living a Sermon
What happens when all the church growth principles that were working in your church, suddenly stop working when you need them the most?
Karl Vaters interviews Paul Dazet about what happened to him, as the pastor of a fast-growing church shortly after he was diagnosed with cancer. Over 100 members left, saying things like “I just can’t handle being sad at church,” and “It used to be so energetic. Your illness changed the whole vibe.” Paul’s illness and the shaved head that went with it were seen as a show of weakness, need, and vulnerability that many people were uncomfortable seeing on a church platform.
But it’s not all bad news. Paul also walks us through the positive changes he has made in his approach to pastoring, including allowing space for lament, and how he now defines ministry success.
Links:
- Paul’s article on Substack
- Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pastorpauldazet/
- Instagram - @pauldazet
- Twitter / X - @pauldazet
- Bluesky - @pastorpaul.bsky.social
- Libby
- Hoopla
Bonus video
The Five False Jesus’ of the “Successful” Church, with Paul Dazet
Paul Dazet found out that a numerically-growing church isn’t necessarily a healthy church. In this Bonus content, Karl Vaters talks with Paul about the 5 ways churches can be tempted to see Jesus that are not what Jesus intended for his church. They are:
- “Jesus wants you rich” (Prosperity Jesus)
- “Jesus votes red, white, and blue” (Nationalistic Jesus)
- “Jesus is disappointed in you” (Judgmental Jesus)
- “Jesus only loves people who look and believe like us” (Exclusive Jesus)
- “Jesus is here to meet your every need” (Consumeristic Jesus)
Links:
- Paul’s article on Substack
- Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pastorpauldazet/
- Instagram - @pauldazet
- Twitter / X - @pauldazet
- Bluesky - @pastorpaul.bsky.social
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Karl Vaters interviews Leanne Friesen about grief. Specifically, how pastors, family members, and other caring people can help give people the room to process their grief when they go through a profound loss. Karl and Leanne also talk about how to process those feelings ourselves.
Leanne is a former pastor and is the author of Grieving Room: Making Space for All the Hard Things after Death and Loss. She talks with wisdom and compassion about the difficult, but important principles she learned as she went through the death of her sister more than a decade ago.
Links:
- Grieving Room: Making Space for All the Hard Things after Death and Loss
- Instagram:@Grieving.Room and @leanne_friesen
- LeanneFriesen.com
- Facebook:A Little Bit of Grieving Room
Bonus video
How to Give People Room When They’re Not “Getting Over” Their Grief, with Leanne Friesen
Karl Vaters interviews Leanne Friesen about one of the hardest aspects of grief – what happens when you can’t seem to “get over it” the way people seem to think you should?
As Leanne explains, when a loved one dies, the ones who have lost them need room for grief to be a part of their lives for the rest of their life. By recognizing this, they can deal with it in a much healthier way.
Links:
- Grieving Room: Making Space for All the Hard Things after Death and Loss
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Karl Vaters talks with Darrell Stetler about a new AI program Darrell has created, called Sermon Illustrator.
After a short introduction to what AI is, and some of the advantages and dangers of using it, they narrow in on this tool that helps pastors with a very specific task – finding illustrations (stories, metaphors, historical events, and so on) that can give your well-prepared sermon a story, a photo, a video, or another illustration that will help your content connect in a memorable way.
Podcast Links:
- Sermon Illustrator
- Get the AI Training Course ($27 offer for podcast listeners!)
- Ep 038: A Discipleship Strategy Small Churches Can Actually Follow
- Ep 084: Second was Trunk-or-Treat, with Darrell Stetler
Also from Darrell Stetler:
- NewStart Discipleship curriculum
- Free New believer Bible reading plan (1 Page PDF)
- Free audiobook on discipling your children
- Free NewStart Discipleship Journal: A 54-page discipleship Bible study for new Christians.
- Free one-hour discipleship training workshop
- Free 23 Page Planning Guide with Trunk or Treat Ideas for Churches
- The Gospel Trunk or Treat Planning System
Social media:
- facebook.com/darrellstetler2
- facebook.com/newstartdiscipleship
- youtube.com/@newstartdiscipleship
- twitter.com/newstartdisc
Bonus Content
Some Strengths and Dangers of Using AI for Sermon Prep, with Darrell Stetler
Karl Vaters interviews Darrell Stetler about what AI is good for, and some of the dangers AI poses, specifically when it comes to prepping Sunday sermons.
To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.
Karl Vaters talks with Luke Simmons, the pastor of Ironwood Church in Mesa, AZ. Recently, Luke and his church elders decided to pursue a very ambitious goal with the aim of helping their large, growing congregation feel smaller and more connected.
As a big-church pastor, Luke is not a typical Church Lobby guest, but he and Karl follow each other on X (formerly Twitter) and when Luke posted about this plan it inspired a lot of questions and curiosity. The plan is for the members of their elder team to have one-on-one meetings with 1,000 church members over coffee or a meal this coming year.
If those numbers make you feel like this isn’t for you, give it a chance. Luke has a heart for people, and he’s interested in how to set numerical goals that help us reach non-numerical objectives of discipleship, fellowship, and service.
Links:
- Luke’s original X post about elder meeting goals
- Luke’s original X post about doing one-on-one meetings
- Faithful and Fruitful
- Tim Keller on Leadership and Church Size Dynamics
- Darrell Stetler’s Sermon Illustrator
- Follow Luke on X
- Ironwood Church
Bonus video
How To Conduct An Annual Leadership Meeting, with Luke Simmons
Karl Vaters talks with Luke Simmons about some of the steps he follows to gain as much as possible from an annual leadership meeting with his church elders. Points include:
- Get it on the calendar as soon as possible
- Make it an overnighter
- Budget for it
- Slow down in a relaxed environment
- Set the tone with idea prompts in writing
- Write a summary afterward
- And more
Links:
- How to Grow Your Small Business: A 6-Step Plan to Help Your Business Take Off (Donald Miller)
- Luke’s original X post about elder meeting goals
- Luke’s original X post about doing one-on-one meetings
- https://faithfulandfruitful.com/elders-meeting/
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Over the last few months, several of our podcasts have been about bivo/covocationality, side hustles for pastors, and so on. And more are on the way.
Why? Because the future of the church is bivocational. In this episode, Karl Vaters talks to Andrew Hamilton about the content from his book, The Future is Bivocational: Shaping Christian Leaders for a Post-Christian World, including the theological foundation for bivocational ministry, how work isn’t a sinful result of the fall, but an element of God’s creative design for us, and the value of covocational ministry for the pastor, the church, and the community.
The second half of the conversation includes several very practical steps for any pastor who’s considering bivocationality, including:
- Having upfront conversations with your church leaders
- Deciding which tasks are essential for you to do
- Knowing which tasks others can be trained for and trusted with
- The non-optional tasks of leadership and communication
- Why Andrew tries to function at 70 percent of his ministry capacity
And more
Links:
- Backyard Missionary
- The Future is Bivocational: Shaping Christian Leaders for a Post-Christian World
- The Patient Ferment of the Early Church: The Improbable Rise of Christianity in the Roman Empire
Bonus video
Eight Options for Finding Bivocational Work, with Andrew Hamilton
Are you considering becoming a bivocational pastor? Karl Vaters talks to Andrew Hamilton about some practical work options that mesh well with a pastoral schedule and skillset, from the content from his book, The Future is Bivocational: Shaping Christian Leaders for a Post-Christian World, including:
- Project/Contract Work
- Laboring
- Start a Small Business
- The Church Starts a Business
- Retrain/Upskill/Study
- Low Demand Work
- Volunteer
- Consulting
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Karl Vaters interviews Bryan Sims about creating an environment for discipleship to thrive, from his book, Creating Space: Cultivating Environments for Disciples of Jesus to Thrive and Multiply (co-written with Craig Robertson).
In the first half of the book, and of our conversation, we talk about the importance of creating PSDs (Passionate Spiritual Disciples) and how the church needs to get better at creating space for it to happen among our church members.
Then in the second half, we get practical, talking about four tools to help this happen in your church. Plus, Bryan addresses the five characteristics of healthy disciple-making environments, and more.
Links:
- Creating Space: Cultivating Environments for Disciples of Jesus to Thrive and Multiply
- Spiritual Leadership, Inc.
- Bryandsims.com
Bonus video
The 4 Stages of Disciple-making Environments, with Bryan Sims
Karl Vaters interviews Bryan Sims about the 4 different types of environments that are needed for varying stages of spiritual growth, from his book, Creating Space: Cultivating Environments for Disciples of Jesus to Thrive and Multiply (co-written with Craig Robertson).
- Stage 1: Engage and Befriend
- Stage 2: Relate and Connect
- Stage 3: Equip and Grow
- Stage 4: Become and Send
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Karl Vaters interviews Derek Maxson about some simple ways to make sure your church website is reaching the three kinds of people who are most likely to use it.
Derek runs Spiffy.Church, an online ministry that specializes in helping smaller churches get the most from their websites, using limited time and resources.
Derek and Karl talk about how to optimize your church website by making it simple and affordable, and how to use it to help three types of people.
- Insiders (your church members and regulars)
- Shoppers (those looking for a new church home)
- Seekers (those who are curious about the faith or who are needing help in a time of crisis)
Links:
- Spiffy.Church
Bonus video
Three Simple Changes You Can Make To Your Church Website, with Derek Maxson
Church websites shouldn’t be as complicated as we make them. In this bonus chat, Karl Vaters talks with Derek Maxson about a few quick changes you can make to your church website that will immediately make it better for everyone.
Links:
- Spiffy.Church
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Karl Vaters interviews Mike Edmondson about the hot-button topics of racial segregation in the American church, why affinity spaces matter, and how the gospel defeats racism – even the racism that has sometimes been promoted within the institutional church.
Mika speaks with experience, wisdom, directness, and grace, generating more light than heat.
Some of what Mika and Karl talk about includes:
- What is segregation?
- What is “Hereditary Heathenism?”
- Why did historically black churches begin?
- What are “Affinity Spaces” and why do they matter?
- How can we think and act more biblically about issues of race?
And more.
Links:
- Text of Mika’s thread from X
- Link to Mika’s original X thread
- NoteBird App
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Rachel Bren is a survivor of sexually related trauma, and now she serves with SRTServices.org, which helps people recover from their trauma, and can help you and your church. She’s also the co-host of the Grace & Grenades podcast.
Karl Vaters interviews Rachel about what sexual related trauma is, how the church can help those dealing with it, some mistakes to avoid, and more.
Links:
- SRTServices.org
- Grace & Grenades
- Our church introduction video
- Brene Brown video on sympathy vs. empathy
- The Allender Center Podcast
- The Place We Find Ourselves Podcast
- Grace & Grenades Podcast
- You can reach Rachel by email at rachel@srtservices.org and the website www.srtservices.org
Bonus video
How Your Church Can Help People Recover from Sexually Related Trauma, with Rachel Bren
Karl Vaters talks with Rachel Bren about how SRTServices.org can come alongside your church to give you the tools to help people who are dealing with sexually related trauma.
Links:
- SRTServices.org
- Grace & Grenades
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Karl Vaters interviews Sam Peters about the microchurch model, and more specifically, what are the minimum aspects that need to be in place for a church to be a church?
If you’re serving a small church that’s considering if you have a viable path forward, the microchurch model is worth considering, and Sam offers some help for thinking about it in fresh, new ways.
Sam Peters is a church consultant, and the author of several books, including Small Church, Big Opportunity; BIG Faith: Six Key Factors that Grow Your Faith in God, & Rebuilding Stronger: Navigating the Post-Pandemic Landscape of Worship.
Links:
- SmallChurchCoaching.com
- LinkTree
- You can follow Sam on Facebook and X
Bonus video
The Limitations of the Institutional Church in Reaching the Community
Karl Vaters interviews Sam Peters about some of the limitations that are now coming to light about the institutional church model (building, salary, etc.) that we’ve both spent our lives in. The challenges we talk about include:
-
Physical and Financial Constraints: Many churches invest most of their resources into maintaining buildings and programs rather than directly engaging the lost. This is especially difficult for smaller congregations.
-
Passive Churchgoers Instead of Active Disciple-Makers: Institutional churches can unintentionally foster a consumer mindset, where members attend services but are not equipped to lead or disciple others.
-
Limited Reach Beyond Church Walls: Most churches expect people to come to them rather than embedding the Gospel in everyday life and relationships.
-
Slow Adaptation to Cultural Shifts: In an age of rapid change, large churches with complex structures often struggle to pivot quickly to meet new challenges and opportunities.
-
Overemphasis on Sunday Gatherings: The primary focus in many churches is the Sunday experience, but disciple-making happens most effectively in smaller, relational environments.
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Karl Vaters interviews Desmond Barrett about how small churches can do a better job at reaching, welcoming, and keeping guests.
Desmond is the author of Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase Attendance, which is a short, but very practical book that pastors will find great benefit in.
Karl and Desmond talk about:
- How to reimagine the church facility from the parking lot to the pew
- Why sharing updates about facility improvements is attractive to guests
- Why so many pastors and church leaders resist doing what needs to be done
- Why “we just need to attract young families” is never the answer
- The good news that new Christians are not looking for programs, they’re wanting to live on mission
Links:
- Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase Attendance
- Revitalizing the Declining Church with Dr. Desmond Barrett (podcast)
- Desmond's Amazon Author Page
- Libby App
Bonus video
5 Options When a Church Property is Too Big for the Congregation, with Desmond Barrett
Karl Vaters talks with Desmond Barrett, the author of Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase Attendance, about a subject that is a challenge for a growing number of congregations. What can you do when a church facility that was built to hold hundreds of people has just a handful or worshipers left?
The five options they discuss are:
- Do Nothing
- Share the Property
- Rent the Property
- Sell the Property
- Recreate the Property
Links: Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase Attendance
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Karl Vaters interviews Brad Hill about some of the latest findings concerning the church and technology.
Brad is the Chief Solutions Officer at Gloo, an organization that came out of nowhere a few years ago, and now seems to be everywhere.
After clarifying Karl’s curiosity about who/what Gloo actually is, they talk about some of the important findings from a recent study Gloo conducted with Barna.
If you’re not an early adopter of technology, this can help you navigate the fast-changing landscape without getting bogged down in details.
The five findings Karl and Brad discuss are:
- Christians see huge potential for churches to use digital tools effectively.
- Churchgoers want pastors to address AI use thoughtfully and wisely.
- Gen Z may live online, but they still crave in-person relationships over digital connections.
- Practicing Gen Z Christians feel uncertain about whether AI is a faithful tool.
- Pastors are intentional about using tech but still prioritize relationships and collaboration as the foundation of ministry.
Links:
- Gloo
- State of the Church research
- Digital Tools article
- Barna
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Eric Hoke is known as the “I Help Pastors Get Jobs” Guy.
Karl Vaters talks with Eric about how to build long-term sustainable ministry, reduce financial stress, and create value in the marketplace by becoming an intentionally covocational pastor.
Eric’s new book, Market Street Pastor: Ministry Sustainability without Money Stress, addresses many of the issues involved in making the shift toward covocational ministry.
This conversation covers the subjects of:
- The mindset shift that most pastors must take to start down this road
- The value pastors bring to the marketplace
- Finding your marketable skills through using the Heart- Head-Hands-Feet method
- How to get through the clutter of thousands of job applicants
- How to present yourself and your skills
- And so much more
Links from this episode:
- Market Street Pastor: Ministry Sustainability without Money Stress
- IHelpPastorsGetJobs.com
- Daily Examen App: "Reimagining the Examen" for iphone and android
Bonus ContentHow to Build a LinkedIn Profile that Will Get Job Leads, with Eric Hoke
LinkedIn remains a primary online site for those seeking employment, and it’s especially helpful for pastors seeking covocational employment.
In this very practical conversation, Eric Hoke talks with Karl Vaters about some common mistakes to avoid and opportunities to take advantage of that will get you noticed—and get the side hustle job that suits your skills and needs.
To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.
For Episode 100, Karl Vaters has a very special conversation with his father, Albert Vaters, about the pastor’s relationship with God’s Word, the Bible.
In addition to each of them spending 40 years as pastors (over 80 years of combined pastoral ministry!), they were also both raised as preacher’s kids, so they can speak from multiple perspectives about life in a pastor’s home.
In this conversation, Karl and Albert talk about:
- What it was like to be raised with a positive experience in a pastor’s home
- How to give the Bible a central place in our homes
- The importance of living what you’re preaching
- How to approach the Bible correctly as a pastor and a parent
- And more
Links:
- John Lennox: God Does Exist
- John Lennox: The Bible and age of the earth?
- John Lennox: Why I am a Christian and a scientist
Karl Vaters talks with Russ Taff. One of the great voices of Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) in the 1970s-90s, Russ won five Grammys, 13 Dove Awards, and was inducted into the Gospel Music Hall of Fame three times (with the Imperials, the Gaither Vocal Band, and as a solo artist).
He also spent decades struggling with alcoholism, church hurt, and shame, stemming from the severe trauma he experienced in the pastor's house of his childhood.
This interview is raw. It’s real, and it’s very emotional.
In addition to talking through his testimony at length, Karl and Russ also take a song-by-song walk through his newest album, which is a journey through his story of pain, trauma, lament, and redemption.
Links:
- Cover Story (The album)
- RussTaff.com
- Become a Financial Partner
- Subscribe to Karl's free weekly newsletter
Alberto Bello is a church planter in Bakersfield CA, and he’s written one of those books everyone says they could write, Ten Things They Didn't Tell Me About Leadership.
Karl Vaters talks with Alberto about that book, the experiences that led to it, and the lessons to be learned from it.
Including:
- Knowing who you are in Jesus
- The Comparison Trap
- How failure is necessary for success
- How not to be people-pleasing leader
- And more
Links:
Ten Things They Didn't Tell Me About Leadership
Mike Rubino is a pastor in the unique ministry environment of Long Island NY. He’s also the founder and director of Church Revitalize, which helps churches that need to revitalize their ministry, through cohorts, coaching, and more.
Karl Vaters talks with Mike about church revitalization, with a focus on Mike’s new workbook, The Revitalize Roadmap: Getting Your Church on the Road to Greater Health.
Subjects include:
- The difference between church growth and church revitalization
- The importance of pastoral health and renewal
- How to understand and fix your church’s blind spots
- Identifying your church’s God-given Geographic Responsibility
- And more
Links:
- Church Revitalize
- The Revitalize Roadmap: Getting Your Church on the Road to Greater Health
- BeTheChurch.org
- Book - Crucial Conversations
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Every church should be open to everyone who wants to attend. So, we need to be more purposeful about making sure we're not unintentionally denying access without realizing it.
Barbara Stanley oversees Wonderful Works Ministry, which equips churches to serve families affected by disability. They have a large and growing set of resources to help churches of all types.
Karl Vaters talks with Barb about a variety of subjects, including:
- Why disability inclusion matters
- How to come alongside families who are affected by disability
- How every church can take some simple first steps toward disability inclusion
- How to deal with some of the changing language around disability
Links:
- Wonderful Works Ministry
- Podcast: Wonderful Works Talks
A clergy sabbatical is not a luxury for the few, it’s an essential element in recalibrating your ministry and reestablishing healthy habits for ministry longevity.
Sabbaticals are having a moment right now. With the accelerated pace of life and ministry, we’re recognizing their value in a fresh, new way.
Sean Nemecek and the team at Pastor In Residence Ministries have been working with pastors for years, helping them get the most out of a sabbatical. And now they’ve put it all in one place with the Clergy Sabbatical Toolkit,, a practical guide that will help pastors, their congregations, and their families.
Karl Vaters talkes with Sean talk about the aspects of an effective sabbatical, including:
- What is a sabbatical?
- Why is a sabbatical important for pastors?
- What’s the ideal sabbatical length?
- Dealing with common objections to taking a sabbatical
- Financial considerations
- And more
Links:
- Clergy Sabbatical Toolkit,
- Pastor In Residence Ministries
Bonus ContentAnger, Depression, and Temptation: Dealing with the Unexpected on Your Sabbatical, with Sean Nemecek
Stuff happens when you step away from the hectic pace of everyday ministry life to take a multi-month sabbatical. Most of it is good, some of it is surprising, and if you’re not ready for it, some of it can cause damage.
Thankfully, Sean Nemecek and the team at Pastor In Residence Ministries have been working with pastors for years, helping them get the most out of their sabbaticals. And now they’ve put it all in one place with the Clergy Sabbatical Toolkit.
In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Sean about some of the unexpected things that happen on sabbatical, so you can be prepared to get the most out of your time of refreshing and renewal.
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Have you ever noticed that people don’t pay attention to sermons the way they used to? It may not be the fault of shorter attention spans (not exclusively, anyway). There’s a lot more happening — and we, as pastors and communicators can do something about it.
Karl Vaters talks with Payton Minzenmayer. He's a pastor, and the founder of ChristianStoryLab.com, a new website that offers great ideas to make our writing and speaking more engaging by using the aspects of story — just like Jesus did.
Some of what they talk about includes:
- Gamification
- The Open Loop Method
- The Anapastic Meter
Links:
- ChristianStoryLab.com
- 3 Proven Strategies to Gamify Your Storytelling
- Open Loop Method: Hook Your Reader And Keep Their Attention
- The Secret To Unforgettable Stories (The Anapastic Meter)
- ChurchFuel.com
You can follow Payton on LinkedIn and X.
Bonus video (Supporters and Subscribers only)
3 Simple Habits to Elevate Your Writing and Speaking, with Payton Minzenmayer
Storytelling is the most powerful form of communication. But most of us could use help to do it better. Karl Vaters talks with Payton Minzenmayer, of ChristianStoryLab.com, about the three habits Payton uses every day to strengthen his storytelling muscles. They’re simple, repeatable, and so helpful.
Links:
- ChristianStoryLab.com
- 3 Simple Habits to Elevate Your Writing In 30 Days Or Less
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According to John’s vision in Revelation 7:9, heaven will be filled with people who are still recognized by their ethnicity (every nation, tribe, people, and language). So, if we want the church here and now to reflect that, Sunday mornings must stop being the most segregated time of the week.
That’s the premise of Karl Vaters’ conversation with Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul Jones, the co-authors of In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture, which Karl named as one of his best nonfiction books of the year for 2024.
Jamaal and Timothy focus on what we can do to create a more kingdom-minded approach to ethnic diversity, while acknowledging that ethnic diversity is not the point of the church, but a byproduct of the gospel message.
Links:
- In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture
Bonus video
3 Steps to Move Your Church Toward Multiethnic Generosity, with Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul Jones
One of the habits (liturgies) that Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul Jones suggest in their book, In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture, is to help your church move toward multiethnic generosity.
Karl Vaters talks with them as they suggest a simple plan to visit a faithful, gospel-driven church outside your own ethnicity or culture once every three months. Embrace this habit as an opportunity to learn from sisters and brothers in other cultures. And when you do, walk through these three steps:
- Consider your own preferences
- Visit the other church
- Be grateful for your preferences—and be willing to lay them down
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The crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus changed everything. Not just for eternity, but for the world here and now.
According to Glen Scrivener, the author of The Air We Breathe, How We All Came to Believe In Freedom, Kindness, Progress, and Equality, most of what we now consider to be self-evident human values were not so evident or common before Jesus.
In this conversation, Karl and Glen talk about:
- How so many principles that most people consider universal, are actually the result of the Christian worldview
- Why this goes unnoticed by people, Christians and non-Christians alike
- Why it’s important to regain this understanding
- What the values of the world looked like before the cross upended everything
- How a clear understanding of the first three chapters of Genesis is the foundation for all of it
Podcast Links:
- Speak Life
- Book: The Air We Breathe: How We All Came to Believe in Freedom, Kindness, Progress, and Equality
- Book: 3 2 1: The Story of God, the World and You
Bonus Summary
How Good Theology Became the Basis for Good Science, with Glen Scrivener
Good theology and good science are good friends. In this short conversation with Glen Scrivener, Karl Vaters asks him about the three legs upon which this reality sits.
These three principles become clear when we have a better understanding of the first three chapters of the Bible:
- The freedom of God
- That humans can understand God’s ways
- Taking human fallibility into account
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Karl Vaters talks with Scot McKnight about what we can learn from those who are deconstructing their faith.
This conversation is based on the content of Scot’s new book (co-written with Tommy Preson Phillips), Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ.
This is a challenging book and a challenging conversation, especially if you are to the right of center theologically and politically (like Scot and Karl). But I encourage you not to write it off for those reasons.
Scot makes the case, through personal observation and thorough statistics, that people who use a term like “deconstruction” are probably not leaving Jesus, but are usually trying to find a simpler, more genuine representation of him than what they’ve seen in many of our churches. Deconstructors are asking important questions and shining a light on issues we need to pay attention to.
Links from this Episode:
- Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ
- The New Testament In Color
- Nick Crawley - Bible For Life
Bonus Content SummaryThe Three Stages of Deconstruction
From chapter 6 of Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ, Scot McKnight shares the three distinct steps most deconstructors go through (Liminality, Elimination, and Liberation), and what they mean.
Knowing these phases can be very helpful for us, as church leaders, to be involved in the conversation with them. When we step into this space instead of running from it, we have the chance to learn, and to guide them as they seek to draw closer to Jesus.
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Karl Vaters interviews Matt Lucas about starting your congregation on the road to spiritual maturity through increasing their Bible reading. Specifically, how reading the Bible at least four times a week is so powerful, it's been called "The Power of Four."
Matt is the CEO of Our Daily Bread (known for their quarterly devotionals) and The Center for Bible Engagement.
Karl and Matt talk about:
- What is The Power of Four?
- Why does reading the Bible 4+ times a week make such a difference in spiritual maturity?
- The importance of reading and hearing the Bible in church
- Helpful ways to gauge spiritual maturity
- How to use Power of Four to help a congregation become more mature
Links:
- Bible Engagement: A Key to Spiritual Growth
- Center for Bible Engagement
- A Non Anxious Presence by Mark Sayers
Bonus Content SummaryA Congregational Survey to Help Track Your Congregation’s Spiritual Maturity, with Matt Lucas
How do you know if your congregation is maturing? Tracking church attendance is not enough.
Matt Lucas and the team at Our Daily Bread are creating a powerful new tool to help pastors and their congregations.
In this Bonus Material, Karl Vaters talks with Matt as he shows us this new tool, explaining what it will do, how easy it will be, and how you’ll be able to use it to lead your congregation well.
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Retirement isn’t what it used to be. In the U.S. military, retirement is mandatory at 62 years of age, but U.S. Army Garrison Chaplain (MAJ) Lisa A. Northway is an exception to that. Lisa, who’s currently stationed in Fort Sill, OK, has been called the “Grandma Moses” of the Army Chaplaincy. She recently received permission to extend her chaplaincy for a few more years.
In this podcast, Karl Vaters talks with Lisa about how to have vibrant ministry past retirement age, including
- The value of long-term experience in today’s ministry environment
- How to pace yourself for the long-term
- How not to block the way for younger ministers
- How to mentor younger ministers
Links from this Episode:
- Elizabeth Fulgaro's Eagles Nest
- Book: The Fantasy Fallacy by Shannon Ethridge
- Book: Unwanted by Jay Stringer
- Book: The Awakened Brain by Dr. Lisa Miller
Bonus Content
Navigating the Challenges of Being a Woman In Ministry, with Lisa Northway
What roles does the Bible allow women to serve in the church? This is a hot-button topic, for sure. In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with U.S. Army Garrison Chaplain Lisa Northway about the challenges she faces as a woman in ministry, and how to address those issues among the troops she serves.
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Small churches aren’t a problem to fix, they’re a unique part of the body of Christ that has gifts we need to embrace.
Karl Vaters talks with Allen T. Stanton about the importance of embracing what’s right about small churches, not in spite of being small, but because they’re small, in a conversation based on the content of Allen's book, The Gift of Small: Embracing Your Church’s Vocation.
Some of the subjects they cover include:
- A new take on the “all growth is good growth” assumption, based on the fact that we live in a culture that is so economically driven
- Why small churches should be more nimble, but often are not
- The differences between a hierarchical leadership model and the Solar System Model
- The importance of the “Parking Lot meeting”
- The differences between regular and episodic volunteers
Links:
- The Gift of Small: Embracing Your Church’s Vocation
- Reclaiming Rural: Building Thriving Rural Congregations
- 211Counts.org
- University of the Ozarks
Bonus ContentFour Practices to Help Your Small Church Stay Nimble, with Allen T. Stanton
Karl Vaters talks with Allen T. Stanton about the importance of:
- Acknowledging the places where small-membership churches are already good at change and where they already practice being adaptive and flexible.
- Remembering that not everything needs to change all the time.
- The looseness of small-church relational networks, rather than strict hierarchies and complicated bureaucracies.
- Understanding and appropriately managing the roles of individuals in the organization.
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Working a side hustle is no longer the exception for pastors, it’s the norm. Embracing it might answer a lot of your (and your church’s) needs.
Karl Vaters talks with Jon Sanders about the rise in covocational pastoring and why it’s something more pastors, especially small-church pastors, should take seriously. Jon is the co-host of the EntrePastors Podcast and the co-founder of EntrePastors.com (with Les Hughes).
The culture around us is shifting. The idea that someone entering the workplace will get a single full-time job to pay the bills is a rarity. And the church is no exception. But, unlike the secular marketplace, we shouldn’t be playing catch-up with this. We can lead.
Jon and Karl talk about several important aspects of bivo/covo ministry, including:
- Why this is a growing need
- How to make the shift without neglecting the church
- The difference between bivocational and covocational
- How to prepare your congregation for a covocational pastorate
And more.
Jon also serves as the Director of Coaching for the 95Network, a ministry that specializes in serving small to midsize churches.
Podcast Links:
- Rural Church Rescue, with Jon Sanders (ep 024)
- EntrePastors
- How The Side Hustle Is Changing The Face Of Pastoring
Bonus Material
Finding a Covocational Job That Fits a Pastor’s Skills and Schedule, with Jon Sanders
What marketplace jobs work well for covocational pastors?
The skills you have honed as a pastor are highly desirable in the secular marketplace. But how can they be turned into a paying job that won’t interfere with your pastoral calling?
In the bonus conversation I talk to Jon Sanders of EntrePastors.com about how to make that transition, including several real-life examples of pastors who have made that transition well.
To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.
Why would a young church planter choose to do ministry in the poorest neighborhood of a city in crisis?
Many churches are fleeing the inner cities. Grand old church buildings with deep histories sit empty. But Tim Walker and Restored Church are facing these realities head-on in Wilkes-Barre PA.
Karl Vaters talks with Tim about subjects like:
- Their church’s Hub for Movement strategy
- Their decision to do ministry in the poorest part of town
- Ministry in a deeply post-Christian context
- Honoring history, while moving into the future from a legacy church building
- Their plan to plant a microchurch on every block of Wilkes-Barre
Links from this episode:
- Future Church, by Will Mancini and Cory Hartman
- From Megachurch to Multiplication, by Chris Galanos
- Cory Hartman Podcast Interview (Ep 29)
- Frank Wooden Podcast Interview (Ep 81)
- GotQuestions.org
- Restored Church
- Tim@restoredchurch.org
Bonus Content
How To Foster Pastoral Collaboration In Your Town, with Tim Walker
Karl Vaters talks with Tim Walker about how he and other pastors in his town have created a network of ministry collaboration that blesses all churches and reaches the community more effectively.
To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.
Karl Vaters talks with Chase Replogle about one of the most controversial, but unavoidable topics today—living with offense without being offended. This material comes from his just-released book, A Sharp Compassion: 7 Hard Words to Heal Our Insecurities and Free Us from Offense.
Karl and Chase talk about why offense is a necessary part of life, how to use it well, and deal with it properly.
Subjects include:
- How Jesus intentionally used offensive words in strategic situations to bring about desired results
- The importance of discipleship
- How the absence of close relationships makes us more offendable
- How church leaders can help those who struggle with being offended
- And more
Chase Replogle is also the author of The 5 Masculine Instincts: A Guide to Becoming a Better Man, and is the host of the Pastor Writer Podcast. He pastors the Bent Oak Church in Springfield, Missouri.
Links from this episode:
- Life Together by Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Bonus Content SummaryThe Danger Of The Cult Of Self-affirmation
Karl Vaters talks with Chase Replogle about the dangers of using self-affirmation as a guide to life and truth. Recent surveys have shown that self-affirmation, and specifically “how I feel at the moment” have widely replaced universal truths in many people’s lives.
It’s also made its way into the church. While 91% of U.S. adults agree that “the best way to find yourself is by looking within yourself,” 76% of practicing Christians agreed with that statement.
As Chase wrote in A Sharp Compassion, “Religion has not disappeared from America, as so many feared; instead, it has, like everything from our entertainment to our diets, become personalized. It has shifted from the risk of offense to the affirmation of the self.”
In September and October over 1.2 million people will search online for “Trunk-or-Treat near me.” Here’s how to be one of the churches they find.
Karl Vaters talks with Darrell Stetler about practical steps to help churches of any size put on a high-quality, gospel-centered Trunk-or-Treat event. Darrell is a small-church pastor in Oklahoma City and he has created a free 23-page guide called Trunk-orTreat Planning for Churches: A Step-by-step Guide.
Karl and Darrell talk about:
- The benefits of having a church Trunk-or-Treat
- Picking a theme
- Who it’s designed to reach
- When to start planning
- Recruiting volunteers
- How to gather info from attenders
- How to follow up
Podcast Links:
- Free 23-page Planning Guide with Trunk-or-Treat Ideas for Churches
- The Gospel Trunk-or-Treat Planning System
- Previous Darrell Stetler Interview (Ep 38)
Also from Darrell Stetler:
- NewStart Discipleship Curriculum
- Free New Believer Bible Reading Plan (1 Page PDF)
- Free audiobook on Discipling Your Children
- Free NewStart Discipleship Journal: A 54-page Discipleship Bible Study for new Christians.
- Free one-hour Discipleship Training workshop
Social media:
- facebook.com/darrellstetler2
- facebook.com/newstartdiscipleship
- youtube.com/@newstartdiscipleship
- twitter.com/newstartdisc
Bonus Summary
Yes, Your Church Can Do Trunk-or-Treat without Compromising Your Christian Values, with Darrell Stetler
If you have problems with Halloween, I'm right there with you. Not a fan. In this short video, Darrell Stetler and Karl Vaters talk about:
- Why our churches do a trunk-or-treat
- The three attitudes Christians can have toward Halloween
- The misunderstood non-pagan origins of Halloween
- Why it’s okay for churches to offer a safe, Bible-based alternative
Bonus Content Links:
- Halloween: A Distinctively Christian Holiday
- Free 23 Page Planning Guide with Trunk or Treat Ideas for Churches
- The Gospel Trunk or Treat Planning System
- To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.
To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.
Karl Vaters talks with Brad Roth about the content from his new book, Flyover Church: How Jesus’ Ministry in Rural Places Is Good News Everywhere, for which Karl wrote the foreword.
Topics include:
- How the rural church is different from the city and suburban church, not just in scale, but in type
- How metrics are very different in the rural church
- The lure of strategy
- The radically different pace of rural ministry
- And more
Brad is also the author of The Hunger Inside: How the Meal Jesus Gave Transforms Lives, and God's Country: Faith, Hope, and the Future of the Rural Church.
Links:
- DoxologyProject.com
- Book: God's Country: Faith, Hope, and the Future of the Rural Church
- Book: The Hunger Inside: How the Meal Jesus Gave Transforms Lives
- Book: Flyover Church: How Jesus' Ministry in Rural Places Is Good News Everywhere
Brad Roth Bonus Chat summary
One New Person: Toward An Authentic Metric For The Rural Church
Karl Vaters talks with Brad Roth about how and why metrics work very differently in rural churches than in urban and suburban churches. As Brad wrote, “Most of us don’t need numbers to know whether our church is thriving. Numbers often stand in for intuition and attempt to substitute with a dashboard what can only be learned through years spent with a people in a place.”
To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.
Sometimes pastors are our own worst enemy, so we need to recognize that God chose us for this work.
There’s probably not a single pastor (at least not a long-term pastor) who can’t relate to the title of Craig T Owens’ latest book, When Sheep Bite: Help for Shepherd Leaders Who May Have Felt the Painful Bites.
In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Craig about what those bites mean, where they come from and what to do about them. Then they spend the bulk of the episode covering the chapters that make up the meat of his book:
- When the Sheep Flatter You
- When the Sheep Criticize You
- When the Sheep Gossip About You
- When the Sheep Slander You
- When the Sheep Question Your Authority
- When the Sheep Abandon You
Links:
- When Sheep Bite: Help for Shepherd Leaders Who May Have Felt the Painful Bites
- Shepherd Leadership: The Metrics that Really Matter
- craigtowens.com
- Church Metrics that Really Matter, with Craig T. Owens (Ep 043)
BONUS MATERIAL
Navigating Your Way Through Good Stress And Bad Stress, with Craig Owens
Karl Vaters interviews Craig T Owens about the fact that there are two kinds of stress that we all face:
- Unbalanced, unhealthy stress, which we call distress
- Balanced, healthy stress, which is known as eustress
In life, as in ministry, it’s essential that we know the difference, and that we’re aware of how to reduce the negative, while embracing and growing with the positive.
To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.
Karl Vaters talks with Frank Wooden about Microchurches. Frank has been a church planter for decades, but is now concentrating on the Microchurch model as a valid, healthy alternative in a changing cultural landscape.
Karl and Frank talk about:
- What Microchurch is
- Why it’s so appealing right now
- Some cautions to be aware of
- Three reasons the Microchurch model can work for a church of any size
- How the Microchurch model might be the answer for many churches in crisis
And more
Links:
- KC Underground
- Tampa Underground
- The Discovery Bible Study Method
- Clayton Christensen
- fwooden@socalnetwork.org
Bonus Content SummaryHow to Help an Existing Church Adapt to the Microchurch Model
Karl Vaters talks with Frank Wooden about the value of the Microchurch model as an alternative for a church in crisis. They discuss how this model might help answer financial challenges, the importance of being proactive, what to do with a church’s institutional assets if they adapt this model, and how to address concerns from mature members.
To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.
Karl Vaters talks with Laurie Acker about the changing face of small church ministry, especially as it relates to recruiting, training, and relying on the volunteers who are so essential in helping small churches survive and thrive in a changing world.
Laurie runs SmallChurchMinistry.com, an online ministry that provides resources and support for volunteers and ministry leaders in smaller churches. Ministries like this are so important because they help provide practical help for the volunteers who do small-church ministry without any prior training.
Links from this episode:
- Website: https://smallchurchministry.com/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/smallchurchministry/
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/smallchurchministry
- Creative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministry
- Small Church Network & Academy: https://smallchurchministry.com/membership/
- Email: Laurie@smallchurchministry.com
- Book: One Thing Remains
Bonus ContentKarl Vaters talks with Laurie Acker about Using a Planning Party to Jumpstart Youth/Kids Ministry. She suggests who should be involved, when to hold the meeting, and more.
Karl and Laurie also talk about how healthy small churches are uniquely suited to meet the needs of youth and kids in an environment that values relationships and connection over programs and professionalism.
To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.
Karl Vaters talks with Greg Atkinson, the author of several books, including The Secret Power of Kindness: 10 Keys to Unlocking Your Capacity to Change the World. Greg is probably most well-known as one of the leading church experts on hospitality and First Impressions. In this conversation, Greg talks about his brave choice to end the cycle of abuse he inherited from his family and choose kindness instead. Plus, he answers several important questions, like
What is kindness?
Why is kindness so powerful?
Practical ways to become a kinder person
Links from this Episode: The Secret Power of Kindness: 10 Keys to Unlocking Your Capacity to Change the World Subscribe to Greg's Newsletter Gloo.com greg@gregatkinson.com Socials - @gregatkinson
Bonus Chat (on YouTube, available to donors and newsletter subscribers) Karl and Greg talk about Why is Unity in Such Short Supply in the Church? In this video chat, they address some important trigger issues that Greg writes about in the last chapter of his book, including racism, politics and more. To get the link for the bonus chat, subscribe to the free weekly newsletter at KarlVaters.com/Subscribe or become a monthly supporter at KarlVaters.com/Support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Forgiveness may be the most desired, but among the least understood virtues found in scripture, and in life. Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Bruce & Toni Hebel, co-authors of Forgiving Forward: Unleashing the Forgiveness Revolution. In this episode we talk about The Power of Forgiveness, including a lot of ideas that may feel counterintuitive to you, so lean in and hear the biblical foundation they’re building on. It may even reframe this entire issue for you. They also provide answers to questions such as:
Why is forgiveness so hard to do?
What are some of the dangers of unforgiveness?
What are some of the blessings of forgiveness?
What if someone is having a hard time forgiving?
Links From This Episode:
AbidingLife.com
ForgivingForward.com
Bonus chat The 7 Protocols of Forgiveness with Dr. Bruce & Toni Hebel (The Church Lobby, Bonus Content on YouTube) The authors of Forgiving Forward: Unleashing the Forgiveness Revolution talk with Karl Vaters about the ingredients that go into forgiveness from a biblical standpoint. This is exclusive content for sponsors and subscribers at KarlVaters.com. To get the link for the bonus chat, subscribe to the free weekly newsletter at KarlVaters.com/Subscribe or become a monthly supporter at KarlVaters.com/Support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Karl Vaters interviews Dianne Finkelde, the author of several books, including Unlock Your Bible: The How-to Study Guide for Everyday Christians. Karl and Dianne talk about, not just the importance of reading the Bible, but how to read it in a way that the everyday person can understand it, appreciate it, and do what it says, including:
Letting the Bible explain the Bible
Hearing God as he speaks to us through its pages
How to remember what we read
Going deeper with character studies, word studies and more
Links From This Episode: Unlock Your Bible: The How-to Study Guide for Everyday Christians
Support This Work:
Visit the Website
Subscribe to weekly Newsletter
Contribute financially at KarlVaters.com/support
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If you've never taken a sabbatical or wondered why they matter, this podcast is a great introduction to it. In this solo podcast, Karl Vaters talks about:
Why sabbaticals matter for pastors
An important lesson on time management from the life of the Apostle Paul
Why Karl is taking his sabbatical now
The sabbatical template he will follow
How to get the most out of a sabbatical
Links:
PastorSoul.com
The DREAM Guide
Bonus Chat (on YouTube, available to donors and newsletter subscribers) Karl talks about the DREAM acronym he will be using on his sabbatical:
Disengage from ministry and reengage with God
Reconnect by spending quality time with family and friends
Evaluate your ministry
Assess your needs
Move into your new way of living
To get the link for the bonus chat, subscribe to the free weekly newsletter at KarlVaters.com/Subscribe or become a monthly supporter at KarlVaters.com/Support. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Karl Vaters interviews Sallie Guillory, the author of YouTube Strategy for Churches: A practical guide for your church to reach more people through YouTube. Karl and Sallie talk about some extremely practical ideas to use the world’s biggest video platform and second largest search engine to help people find your content, including:
How to get more mileage out of the content you’re already creating
Creating videos that answer the questions people are actually asking
How to create short videos from longer presentations
Why simple and helpful is more important than having high production values
And more.
Links: YouTube Strategy for Churches: A practical guide for your church to reach more people through YouTube
Bonus chat (on YouTube) 6 Tips to Write Better Titles for Your Church’s YouTube Videos In this bonus content, Karl talks with Sallie Guillory about some very simple, practical ways to get your titles seen through the clutter of YouTube, including:
How many words to use in your title
Using keywords correctly
The value of using question, numbers, and lists in the title
And more
To get the link for the bonus chat, subscribe to our email at https://karlvaters.com/subscribe/
Support This Work: Visit the Website Subscribe to weekly Newsletter Contribute financially at KarlVaters.com/support Visit our Youtube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Karl Vaters interviews David Zahl, author of Seculosity: How Career, Parenting, Technology, Food, Politics, and Romance Became Our New Religion and What to Do about It. In this episode, Karl and David have a wide-ranging conversation about how the religious landscape has changed in our culture, but not in the ways you may have thought. According to David, we haven’t become less religious, but the objects of our worship and the rituals and rules around that worship have changed from vertical to horizontal. If you are a church leader, this episode will help you get a handle on some of the confusing shifts in attitude and behavior that may be frustrating you as you attempt to lead a congregation. In this episode, we narrow in on the subjects of: • Busyness • Parenting • Politics • Jesusland and how each of them may be playing themselves out in disruptive but subconscious ways in our lives and congregations.
Mockingbird The Mockingcast Low Anthropology: The Unlikely Key to a Gracious View of Others (and Yourself)
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website Subscribe to weekly Newsletter Contribute financially at KarlVaters.com/support Visit our Youtube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Karl Vaters interviews Alan Briggs, a pastor, the author of Staying is the New Going, the host of the Right Side Up Leadership podcast and StayForth.com. Karl and Alan talk about why geography matters in church leadership. Especially in an increasingly-mobile and increasingly-electronic world, staying planted where God put you is more important than ever for effective, incarnational ministry. Staying in a church long-term may have its challenges, but they are far outweighed by their advantages – for the church, the pastors, the pastor’s family, and the community they’re called to serve. Some important topics we cover include: • Why are American pastors especially transient, and what problems does this cause? • What does it mean to choose to be a local even if you aren’t a native? • The importance of “faithful presence” • Why sabbaticals matter, and why doing them with a plan is essential
Staying is the New Going Stayforth.com Right-Side Up Leadership Podcast
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
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Karl Vaters interviews Aron Utecht, a pastor and the host of the Good Ideas for Churches podcast. Karl and Aron talk about some of the positive trends he’s been seeing in the church and among pastors, including a refocusing on mission rather than an obsession with methods. They also talk about the value of podcasting for pastors and churches, including what question we must answer before we’re ready to ask “should I start a podcast?” Hint: sometimes the answer is “no”. In a lot of situations the best use of our limited time and energy may be to invest ourselves even deeper into the church and the surrounding community with low-tech, hands-on touches. So Aron encourages us not to get enamored with the tools and toys. Know what God has called you to do, then do it in the best way you know. If that’s a high-tech answer, fine. But if it’s old-school pastoring, which it will be for most of us, stay faithful in that.
Good Ideas for Churches podcast
Goeyesup.com
The Ten Minute Bible Hour podcast
Follow on Twitter @AronUtecht
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
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Karl Vaters interviews Rick Hiemstra, a former small church pastor, now serving as the Director of Research at the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada. Rick and Karl talk about a wide variety of subjects, including the Church Growth Movement, technology and how it has affected the way we approach pastoring. Some helpful insights include:
What has people’s attention is what shapes them, and technology has radically altered what has our attention
How technology has shaped people’s expectation of what to expect from their church and their pastor
How technology subconsciously changed pastors from shepherds to content producers
The important difference between “growth” and “scale”
How small churches are especially suited to meet the changing needs of a world whose attention is so easily diverted
And much more.
Rick.Hiemstra@theefc.ca evangelicalfellowship.ca Andy Crouch - The Tech-Wise Family Justin Earley - The Common Rule The HTML of Cruciform Love: Toward a Theology of the Internet Online Conversation | After Babel: Reclaiming Relationship in a Technological World with Andy Crouch & Jonathan Haidt
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
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Karl Vaters interviews Ron Klassen of the Rural Home Missionary Association (RHMA) about seeing the unique nature of the small church, not as a problem to be solved, but as a strength to leverage, and even to exploit. Here are a few highlights:
Small churches have unique ministry gifts that shouldn’t be seen as problems to fix, but as positives to exploit.
The relational aspect of small churches is something we need to lean into, not shy away from. It will even make you come across as a better preacher!
A lot of small church ministry happens off-book and outside of organized programs. Exploit that.
Don’t take intergenerational relationships for granted. And don’t push back against them. Exploit the value of them by being intentional about them.
If you know a small town or rural church leader who could use this encouragement and these ideas, pass this episode along to them. And pick up Ron’s book, Maximize! Leveraging the Strengths of Your Small Church.
Links: Maximize!: Leveraging the Strengths of Your Small Church Rural Matters Institute
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website Subscribe to weekly Newsletter Contribute financially at KarlVaters.com/support Visit our Youtube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Karl Vaters interviews Matt Whitman, host of the Ten Minute Bible Hour podcast and YouTube channel. Karl and Matt talk about the intersection of Bible teaching/preaching and pastoral care. This conversation also covers
The importance of our online presence
How to avoid the temptation of living by clicks
Taking care not to get stuck wandering down political and theological rabbit trails
Why teaching about the Bible is as important as teaching from the Bible
Links:
The Ten Minute Bible Hour YouTube
thetmbh.com
Matt Whitman Twitter
No Dumb Questions Podcast
Dwell
Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In
How To Think: A Guide for the Perplexed
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website Subscribe to weekly Newsletter Contribute financially at KarlVaters.com/support Visit our Youtube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Karl Vaters interviews Matt Steen, a former pastor and church planter, now with Chemistry Staffing, a ministry that helps churches find great staff members (and helps staff members find great churches). The episode is filled with practical advice, including
What’s changed in pastoral transition/placement over the last generation
How the pandemic has accelerated pastoral transitions
The five key principles to look for when looking for a new pastor or church
Of special help will be how Matt describes the difference between “close-fisted” and “open-handed” theological issues, as well as the importance of giving churches time to get used to a pastoral departure, and to get ready for a new pastor. These principles are especially important in a small church context because the unique characteristics of the church need to be identified and accounted for in a pastoral search. And if they are, the so-called pastoral revolving door may just slow down for a lot of churches and pastors. Links:
Chemistrystaffing.com
Before You Go, by Wade Hodges
When to Leave, by Wade Hodges
The Pastor: A Memoir, by Eugene H. Peterson
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website Subscribe to weekly Newsletter Contribute financially at KarlVaters.com/support Visit our Youtube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Karl Vaters interviews John C. Nugent about this subject, which is at the root of some of the biggest challenges pastors are facing today. Dr. Nugent is the author of several books including Endangered Gospel: How Fixing the World Is Killing the Church. He is a professor of Old Testament studies at Great Lakes Christian College, and co-host of the After Class Podcast. John’s approach helps us understand where common misunderstandings about these issues come from so we can address them lovingly and biblically. He also frames these issues according to the entire story-arc of scripture, rather than just proof-texting. This is a great way to see the church for what Jesus called us to be. Not isolated from the world, but as a representation of the Kingdom of God within the world.
Links:
Endangered Gospel
After Class podcast
JohnNugent.net
Works of Gerhard Lohfink
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website Subscribe to weekly Newsletter Contribute financially at KarlVaters.com/support Visit our Youtube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Karl Vaters interviews Cory Hartman, co-author of Future Church: Seven Laws of Real Church Growth about what happened when church growth answers didn't work for him or the church he served. His background and experiences will sound familiar to most small church leaders. And this conversation will be very encouraging. In this conversation, Cory and Karl talk about
How Cory, a “failed” small church pastor became the co-author of a book about church growth (including an update of what "failure" really means)
The essential distinction between what he calls Upper Room and Lower Room churches
The four “can’t miss” answers for church growth, and how they did miss for him
How he redefines some important terms like “church growth”, “success”, "discipleship” and “conversion” in more biblical ways
And more. Links:
Future Church: Seven Laws of Real Church Growth
Becoming a Disciple Maker: The Pursuit of Level 5 Disciple Making
Futurechurch.co
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Karl Vaters interviews Dr. Sandie Morgan, co-author of the new book, Ending Human Trafficking. In this episode we talk about how healthy churches are uniquely positioned to help prevent human trafficking, including:
What signs to look for in people who may be vulnerable
How to partner with other agencies and law enforcement
How to set proper policies
Why we need to pay more attention to labor trafficking, not just sex trafficking
How to find resources in our neighborhood
And so much more, including a take on the biblical story of Elisha and the widow (2 Kings 4) that any pastor can preach from to help your congregation understand the importance of this issue and how to prevent it. Dr. Morgan is also the host of the Ending Human Trafficking podcast, and the director of the Global Center for Women and Justice at Vanguard University. She also served by presidential appointment on the Public-Private Partnership Advisory Council to End Human Trafficking.
Links from this episode: Ending Human Trafficking Sweat and Toil app endinghumantrafficking.org gcwj.org Sandie Morgan social media: Twitter, Facebook, Instagram
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website Subscribe to weekly Newsletter Contribute financially at KarlVaters.com/support Visit our Youtube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Karl Vaters interviews Dr. Gary McIntosh about Donald McGavran's role as the pioneer of the church growth movement. But don’t let the term "church growth movement" stop you from listening. Dr. McIntosh tells us that the origins of church growth are far different than what most of us have been taught recently. Some of the misunderstandings he clears up include:
That it came from the heart of a missionary, not a pastor
That it was about being cross-cultural, not omni-cultural
That it was focused as much or more on the impact of smaller congregations than the building of bigger ones
Donald A. McGavran: A Biography of the Twentieth Centurys Premier Missiologist
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
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An interview with Austin Savage about the role of marketing in church leadership, including what marketing is, what it isn’t, and why we need to destigmatize it to use it effectively. You may know Austin from the work he did with 95Network.com, including several years co-hosting the 95Podcast with Dale Sellers. Recently, he established Austin Savage & Co. to help churches with creating content and using media in the church. In this conversation, Karl and Austin talk about
The difference between Marketing and promotion/advertising
How to put the content your church is already creating into the marketplace in creative ways
How to get started without costing any money
Links Asana 95network.org Austinsavage.co
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
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So, your church has a Facebook page? In a small church, that should be enough of an online presence, right? Wrong. It finally happened! The answer to the question, "Can This Work In A Small Church?" isn't "yes"! (Well, not entirely, anyway.) Find out why in this interview with Josh Givens. Topics include:
The importance of getting online
Why we must stay connected to the people we meet there
Why we must invest money and time to own online real estate (a website)
The importance of the pastor’s personal online presence
How much your church communicates before people step inside the building
Josh is the Communications Director for Northside Bible Church in Mobile AL, and for 614Ministries.org.
Links
NorthsideMobile.org
Using Photos Online (YouTube video)
Unsplash.com (Free photos)
614Ministries.org
JDGivens.com
CornerstoneFV.com
Canva
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
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An interview with Jon Sanders, the founder of SmallTownBigChurch.com, co-host of the EntrePastors podcast and author of Rural Church RESCUE: A Call to Restore Healthy Churches to Rural North America. Jon and Karl talk about how Jon used the principles he learned as a firefighter to help churches better understand how to do ministry that matters. The parallels between the roles of firefighter and pastors are vivid, and the lessons are clear. Subjects include the need for a clear mission and vision, the need to adapt, and the necessity of training and working as a team. Links: Rural Church RESCUE: A Call to Restore Healthy Churches to Rural North America Calendly Smalltownbigchurch.com EntrePastors podcast
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
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Karl Vaters interviews Dr. Vincent E. Gil, the author of A Christian's Guide Through the Gender Revolution: Gender, Cisgender, Transgender, and Intersex (Cascade Publishing, 2021.) . Dr. Gil taught human sexuality and counseled at a conservative Christian college for 38 years. He has been a consultant on sexual issues for church leaders and denominations, and is himself a licensed minister. This is a sensitive subject that often causes division, or gets ignored due to some of the complexity and concerns. In this conversation, Karl and Dr. Gil talk about how to understand the current “gender moment,” and negotiate a better way than taking sides on issues. Karl and Dr. Gil address issues of concern to pastors, and provide a dialogue on how to approach varied sex/gender concerns in congregants and beyond. (Our apologies for a technical issue. In the front half of the podcast there are several times when you can hear a thumping in the background while Dr. Gil is talking. We have done our best to limit it, but we were not able to remove it.) Links: Dr. Gil’s Webpage: drvincegil.com. Dr. Gil’s recent book: A Christian's Guide through the Gender Revolution: Gender, Cisgender, Transgender, and Intersex (2021). Available in Hardcover, paperback and Kindle editions at Amazon.
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
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Karl Vaters and Jeff Hamilton (founder of Dad Academy) talk about the importance of helping men become the dad they want to be by becoming at least as intentional in their parenting as they are in their job. Topics include:
Why “Dadding” is so important and so challenging
The importance of having an intentional plan
The impact of building a positive culture in your home by creating a more Christ-like value system
Links:
Dadacademy.info
Jeff@dadacademy.info
Whereby
Switcher Studio
Instagram: Dad Academy
Facebook: Dad Academy
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
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The Bible-Reading Coach is a guide to help anyone read through the entire Bible in 52 weeks. It all starts with a weekly podcast, available in both audio and video formats, hosted by pastor and author Karl Vaters, it’s designed to help beginners and longtime Bible readers get more out of your journey through God’s Word by making your reading journey Simple, Understandable, and Rewarding.
SIMPLE: A weekly introduction to readings from Genesis to Revelation that helps you know what to look for as you read.
UNDERSTANDABLE: Helps you see how this ancient wisdom applies to the way we live, think, and believe today.
REWARDING: We want to help you read all the way from Genesis to Revelation by showing you what to look for and how to apply it to your everyday life.
Are you a follower of Jesus who’s tried and failed to read through the Bible before? Follow our plan. This time, you’ll finish. Are you new to the Bible and the Christian faith? We welcome you! This can be a helpful first step to 1) understand what the Bible says, 2) discover why this collection of ancient texts is essential to the life and faith of billions of people, and 3) inspire you to dig even deeper.
See what's coming in the weeks ahead on the Bible outline. Transcripts will be available in advance of each episode. Support this work. Help us keep our content free for those who need it the most. Find more resources for small church ministry at KarlVaters.com.
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website Subscribe to weekly Newsletter Contribute financially at KarlVaters.com/support Visit our Youtube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Karl Vaters interviews Peyton Jones, a church planter and church planting specialist. He’s written several books, most recently, Church Plantology: The Art and Science of Planting Churches, which is the basis for this conversation. Peyton and Karl talk about a lot of issues regarding church planting, but mostly about how most of our common perceptions of church planting are built on a faulty foundation. Not a church planter? Don’t let that stop you from listening. There’s a lot in this for every church leader. Links from this episode: Church Plantology: The Art and Science of Planting Churches Reaching the Unreached: Becoming Raiders of the Lost Art Through the Word Ministry Ninja Newbreed Training
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website Subscribe to weekly Newsletter Contribute financially at KarlVaters.com/support Visit our Youtube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
An interview with Jason Moore about how to blend online & in-person worship. Jason is the founder of the Both/And seminars which helps churches of all sizes create a better worship experience for both the online audience and the in-person congregation. In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks to Jason about how a church of any size can use online and in-person church to make each a better experience for worshipers. If you’re having a hard time with your online experience, or even if you’re doubtful about its value listen to Jason’s heart, his experience and his ideas, including…
How online worship has gone from being expensive and rare to a common and essential aspect of church ministry – leaving many of us to play catch-up.
How to ensure that the online church experience doesn’t to detract from in-person worship, but can add to it.
The need to readjust the goal of church from getting people in the room to getting the message out.
The fact that the main roadblock to a high-quality online/in-person experience isn’t money, it’s intentionality.
Links from the episode: Midnightoilproductions.com facebook.com/midnightoilproductions instagram.com/midnightoilprod/ mail@midnightoilproductions.com Open Broadcast Software Unsplash Techsoup.org
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
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Karl Vaters interviews Matt Branaugh about the important subjects of law, tax and finances in the church. Matt is an Attorney at Law and Content Editor for Church Law & Tax.
In this conversation, Karl and Matt talk about some of the biggest recent issues in these important areas – you know, the things we hate to deal with, but need to take care of. Thankfully, Matt knows how to talk about them in compelling, clear and applicable ways.
This conversation will help you know that you and your church are not alone if you’re facing these issues, where you can go to get help, and how to be proactive instead of waiting for something bad to happen.
Links: CLT Matt Branaugh at Church Law & Tax ChurchLawandTax.com Church Law and Tax Store Richard R. Hammar at Church Law & Tax
Articles The Top 5 Reasons Churches and Religious Organizations End Up in Court Minimizing the Risks of Child Molestation in Churches Whose Church Is It? Your Church Needs an Insurance Committee Seventh Circuit: Clergy Housing Allowance Is Constitutional Housing Allowance Basics How to Safely Reopen Your Church and Reduce Legal Liability
Lightning Round Workflowy.com ChristianLegalSociety.org
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
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Karl Vaters interviews Bob Roberts Jr., a pastor, author, global strategist and more. Bob has a heart for Jesus, for the Gospel, for all kinds of people, and for the role of the small congregation in fulfilling God’s mission. Karl and Bob have a free-wheeling conversation that touches on many subjects, all of which can help every church and every church leader.
Links from this episode: My Promised Land by Ari Shavit Art and Faith: A Theology of Making by Makoto Fujimura Glocal.net Multifaithneighborsnetwork.org Twitter & Instagram: @bobrobertsjr BobRobertsjr.com For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website Subscribe to weekly Newsletter Contribute financially through Patreon Visit our Youtube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
My podcast guest this week is Gary Garcia — again. This time we talk about Pastoral Transition from a unique perspective. I was Gary’s lead pastor for 25 years, then Gary became the lead pastor, while I stayed on the pastoral staff with him. In this episode Gary and I talk about
Why that happened
How we did it
How it’s been going since
Some key points about making a successful pastoral transition will include:
We need to know God is calling us to do it, even if it’s outside our comfort zone.
We must spend the necessary time to talk, think and pray about it. It’s better to do it well than do it fast.
Each needs to support the other. The former lead pastor must truly let go of control, and the new pastor needs to honor the past without being intimidated by it.
Links from this Episode: DownloadYouthMinistries.com Find Gary on Instagram For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
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Karl Vaters and Gary Garcia have worked together at the same church for 29 years. For the first 25 years Karl was the lead pastor. For the last 4 years Gary has been the lead pastor.
This is the first of two episodes with them. In the next one they will talk about everything surrounding the pastoral transition, but in this episode they talk about
How to stay in ministry long-term
How to stay fresh while in the same church
How to work together well
Advice for those wanting to stay strong in ministry for the long haul
For a transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog Support This Work: Visit the Website Subscribe to weekly Newsletter Contribute financially through Patreon Visit our Youtube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Karl Vaters interviews Tom Harris about the important, but underserved topic of Intentional Interim Pastorates. Tom is the co-author of Soaring Between Pastors: 8 Actions to Thrive During a Pastoral Transition. He also serves as the president of IPM: Interim Pastor Ministries. In this conversation, Tom and Karl talk about the importance of interim pastorates, including how an intentional interim can help prepare a church to hit the ground running when they call a new pastor.
October is 2021 is support month! In 2022 we plan to create new resources including a second podcast, church health assessment resources, and more. So far we've been able to absorb the cost of these resources ourselves but we need your help to create this next phase of ministry. Because we offer resources for small churches and their pastors we want to keep offering as many of them for free as possible. Your support will help us keep doing that. Visit KarlVaters.com or support us on Patreon. Thanks for helping us keep this ministry alive.
Links from this episode: InterimPastors.com Soaring Between Pastors For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website Subscribe to weekly Newsletter Contribute financially through Patreon Visit our Youtube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Karl Vaters interviews Rich Brown on the importance of long-term pastorates. Rich is the author of Extended Stays: A Closer Look at Longer Pastorates. He has served for decades as a pastor and in Christian higher education. Currently he serves with IPM (Interim Pastor Ministries). In this conversation, Karl and Rich talk about why long-term pastorates are good for the church, the pastor, the pastor’s family, and for the community we're called to reach. Including:
Some shocking stats about pastoral tenure
Why a series of short-term stays can be problematic
How to make a long-term stay effective for everyone
How to grow deeper through transition without relocation
and more.
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: KarlVaters.com/Support Visit the Website Subscribe to weekly Newsletter Contribute financially through Patreon Visit our Youtube Channel
From the Episode: Rich@interimpastors.com Extended Stays by Rich Brown InterimPastorMinistries.com The Forgotten Church by Glenn Daman Turnaround Strategies For the Small Church by Ron Crandell Transforming Church in Rural America by Shannon O’Dell Growing Young - Fuller Seminary Church Revitalization in Rural America by Tom Cheyney Small Church Checkup by Kay Kotan & Phil Schroeder Leading the Smaller Church by Glenn C. Daman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Karl Vaters interviews Matt Henslee about the importance of having small church representation in denominational leadership. In addition to being a small church pastor and authoring/co-authoring several books, Matt has recently been appointed to leadership in his denomination (the Southern Baptist Conference) on both a regional and national level. Karl and Matt talk about how this came happened and how important it is for all church groups, including denominations, to make a place for small church pastors in leadership.
Links from this Episode: Jonah Over Coffee Replanting Rural Churches PreachingSource.com For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog Support This Work: Visit the Website Subscribe to weekly Newsletter Contribute financially through Patreon Visit our Youtube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Karl interviews Jean Morgan, a small church pastor who wrote a Master’s thesis about the correlation between a pastor’s personality and the size of the church they serve. In this conversation, Jean and Karl talk about
The way Jean made this assessment
The initial results
The possible impact of his results for us as small church pastors
What we discover is that our effectiveness in small church ministry is less about our personality type and far more about 1. Our feelings of effectiveness 2. Listening closely to our calling, not to the outside voices that tell us we need to hit certain numbers 3. How God can use any personality type to accomplish his will for his church Jean's Masters Thesis can be found here https://karlvaters.com/small-church-pastor-personality-types/
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website - www.karlvaters.com Subscribe to weekly Newsletter - https://karlvaters.com/subscribe/ Contribute financially through Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/karlvaters Visit our Youtube Channel - https://bit.ly/3wvZv3T Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Karl talks with Lori Andrews about trauma, its effect on the brain, and how to use this information as we lead through challenging times. Topics include:
How can we help people cope with the constant flow of low-to-moderate-level trauma?
The value of consistency in worship services.
How to help kids prepare for children’s services.
The neurobiological benefits of corporate worship.
Lori has a doctorate in Education, specializing in chronic trauma and broken family systems, with training in neurobiology. She works with at-risk youth, and she has spent many years in small-church ministry. Links from this episode: Freshhope.us mentalhealthgracealliance.org
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
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Karl interviews Drew Dyck about Writing for Ministry, including
The differences between preaching and writing
How to get started writing for ministry publications
What book publishers are looking for (including from small church pastors)
Drew has spent decades as a writer and editor for major church publishers, and is the author of several books, most recently "Your Future Self Will Thank You: Secrets to Self-Control from the Bible and Brain Science (A Guide for Sinners, Quitters, and Procrastinators)."
Links from this episode: “Your Future Self Will Thank You: Secrets to Self-Control From The Bible And Brain Science” https://www.drewdyck.com/your-future-self-will-thank-you Twitter Handle @drewdyck drewdyck.com “Bird by Bird” by Anne Lamott
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
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Greg Atkinson is one the world’s leading voices in First Impressions for churches. He also wrote "Secrets of a Secret Shopper: Reaching and Keeping Church Guests" as a guide for small churches. In this conversation, Karl Vaters interviews Greg about
Online presence
How everyone in a small church is on the First Impressions "team”
Why small churches may need to work harder on First Impressions than our big church friends
A few tips for small churches to increase their first impression with little or no money
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog Support This Work: Visit the Website Subscribe to weekly Newsletter Contribute financially through Patreon Visit our Youtube Channel
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There’s a lot of talk lately about what it will take to recover from what we've all been through over the past two years. And understandably so. It will take years for us to get a grip on what has happened, what’s still happening and how it’s still changing everything. In this two-part series, Karl Vaters shares several lessons about responding, recovering and thriving through a challenging season. This information comes from hundreds of conversations he’s had with small church pastors, denominational leaders and others over the last 18+ months. In this episode (Part 2), Karl covers the four essential principles that have made the differences between 1) churches that struggled the most during the pandemic, and will continue to struggle in the future, and 2) churches that have stayed healthy, become stronger and are likely to thrive into the future.
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website Subscribe to weekly Newsletter Contribute financially through Patreon Visit our Youtube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
There’s a lot of talk lately about what it will take to recover from what we've all been through over the past two years. And understandably so. It will take years for us to get a grip on what has happened, what’s still happening and how it’s still changing everything. In this two-part series, Karl Vaters shares several lessons about responding, recovering and thriving through a challenging season. This information comes from hundreds of conversations he’s had with small church pastors, denominational leaders and others over the last 18+ months. In this episode (Part 1), Karl covers:
The two dangerous extremes people have found themselves in – and the way path to health again
The two keys for churches to recover and thrive in the coming years
The three most important principles for small churches moving forward
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website - www.karlvaters.com Subscribe to weekly Newsletter - https://karlvaters.com/subscribe/ Contribute financially through Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/karlvaters Visit our Youtube Channel - https://bit.ly/3wvZv3T Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
An interview with Craig Forrest, who’s spent decades shooting and editing film and video for ministries and network TV. Craig is passionate about helping people communicate the message of Jesus in a compelling way. In this interview, Karl Vaters talks with him about video ideas and tips that can be used in any size of church on a limited/nonexistent budget. CraigForrest.com (https://www.craigforrest.com/) MatchstickMedia.org (https://www.matchstickmedia.org/) Six Ways to Sunday podcast (https://soundcloud.com/craig-d-forrest-813372280)
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website (https://karlvaters.com/) Subscribe to weekly Newsletter (https://karlvaters.com/subscribe/) Contribute financially through Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/karlvaters) Visit our Youtube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrcGS0_tkxklJyB7wn9-aZA) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Recorded in an RV at the Big Little Church conference in Camas WA, Karl talks with four people who host conferences for small church leaders. The conversation covers: Why they started their small church conferences What big church conferences can do to include the needs and voices of small church leaders First steps if you want to host a small church conference
Guests: Carl & Kalani Culley of BigLittleChurch.com Dale Sellers of 95Network.org Chris Vitarelli of SmallChurchBigDeal.com
Links from Episode: Big Little Church Conference (http://www.biglittlechurch.com/) Small Church, Big Deal (http://smallchurchbigdeal.com/) 95Network (https://www.95network.org/) First 5 app - Devotional tool (https://first5.org/)
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website (https://karlvaters.com/) Subscribe to weekly Newsletter (https://karlvaters.com/subscribe/) Contribute financially through Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/karlvaters) Visit our Youtube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrcGS0_tkxklJyB7wn9-aZA) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
In my conversation with Ira Antoine we talk about Decision Fatigue. You know, that exhaustion you feel when there are just ... too ... many ... decisions to be made and no one else to make them! Ira has pastored of Minnehulla Baptist Church in Goliad, Texas for 14 years and he is also the Director of Texas Baptists Bivocational Pastors Ministry. Ira offers a lot of practical help for an issue that every leader will face during seasons of challenge including “What is decision fatigue? Why are we facing it? And what can we do about it?”
Links From Episode: Streamyard.com (https://streamyard.com) Texas Baptists Convention (https://texasbaptists.org/) Personal e-mail: ira.antoine@texasbaptists.org
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website - https://karlvaters.com Subscribe to weekly Newsletter - https://karlvaters.com/subscribe/ Contribute financially through Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/karlvaters Visit our Youtube Channel - https://bit.ly/2SRQUuU Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
A church’s culture is defined as “the unwritten set of rules that governs everything a church does.” In a big church, the pastor and staff set the culture, but in a small church the culture is set by the long-time regular members and attenders - even if they don't know they’re doing it. In this episode, Karl Vaters walks through the three steps that a small church pastor must use to lead the culture.
Show them you understand the culture
Show them what you appreciate about the culture
Then you will get limited permission to participate with them to lead and shape the culture
Karl also walks through the key types of church cultures and how to address each one.
Links from Episode: Dirt Matters by Jim Powell
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
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Karl Vaters interviews Doug Bursch about his new book, Posting Peace. It's all about how social media is impacting us so much that it even changes how we see ourselves and relate to each other. But Doug also offers hope for how we can be peacemakers and reconcilers in our online behavior. As the first interview of this podcast, Karl introduces the Lightning Round questions, with questions and answers that are both profound and a little bit of fun. Buy Posting Peace (https://www.ivpress.com/posting-peace)
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website (https://karlvaters.com/) Subscribe to weekly Newsletter (https://karlvaters.com/subscribe/) Contribute financially through Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/karlvaters) Visit our Youtube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrcGS0_tkxklJyB7wn9-aZA) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Yes, small churches can be strong, healthy and effective. In this opening episode, Karl Vaters looks at the three main issues that must be in place in order for that to happen. 1. Realize you can be effective 2. Discover how small churches function differently from big churches 3. Understand and use the unique DNA of your small church for God’s glory
For a Transcript of this episode visit the Pivot Blog
Support This Work: Visit the Website (https://karlvaters.com/) Subscribe to weekly Newsletter (https://karlvaters.com/subscribe/) Contribute financially through Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/karlvaters) Visit our Youtube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrcGS0_tkxklJyB7wn9-aZA) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Why would someone create a podcast called "Can This Work In A Small Church?" Because small churches are different. A lot of what we learn from our big church friends needs to be tweaked for the small church environment. And sometimes they need to be done completely differently. In this episode, Karl Vaters introduces you to what this podcast is about, and what's coming up.
Support This Work: Visit the Website (https://karlvaters.com/) Subscribe to weekly Newsletter (https://karlvaters.com/subscribe/) Contribute financially through Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/karlvaters) Visit our Youtube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrcGS0_tkxklJyB7wn9-aZA) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices