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Presencing Institute
Transforming Society and Self These audio recordings have been submitted by our Global Community, Faculty and Partners. All submissions are curated and presented by the Presencing Institute www.presencing.org
Host: First, please give a briefing about yourself and Precious Land
A-Gui: In fact, I had been working at the sites of international humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, so called field worker at the front line. I observed an interesting phenomenon from disasters I experienced. It seemed that everyone described the disaster he/she faced is an unpresidential one, maybe once per 50 years or several generations. After hearing more similar statements, I keep a big question mark in mind. It could reflect the affected people because they suffered more than previous case. However, the feeling of disaster impacts should have an objective measurement to tell.
So, I kept it in my mind, but was much occupied by field operations and paid less time to find out what behind the stories.
Coming back to Taiwan and having in-depth discussions with Prof. Chung-Ho Wang and Prof. Chung-Ming Liu, who are top experts in climate change. After having one understanding, I found that in the objective approach, although everyone had been debating evidence of climate change at that time, it should be like that way. But I think that I can't wait for scientific proof, the so-called conclusive evidence!
Because scientists might want 100% for sure, or be ambiguous that is unlikely this is really climate change, that is global warming. So, at that time I would rather believe climate change is happening, I know that the whole climate is changing. Now let’s check what happened in Taiwan. In fact, when I worked in the affected area after disaster, the first challenges to solve are food, water, and energy. How do you keep warm? Water to drink? And food to feed?
Taiwan lacks ideas of disaster preparedness which is very insufficient to respond for emergency. We do not have enough sense for the long-term food crisis. Just in case it happened, we began to think about what could we do? What if a global crisis and when it is systematically impacting us? Then we just are doing something afterwards, that is so-called remedial. So why not do something in advance? If you still have the opportunity, do some preventive work. When some big one does take place, it makes you frustrated, because there is no preparation, no preparation at all.
Then looking at agricultural development in Taiwan, Prof. Warren H.J. Kuo already has named it – “the agriculture in Intensive Care Unit.” Because it always needs to keep two tubes for survival, one called chemical fertilizer, and another called pesticide.
Furthermore, all of our agricultural knowledge is based on agricultural business model supported by chemicals. That is, you have to use chemical fertilizers and pesticide to mass produce crops.
I feel, in fact, it is quite sad, and I am a very emotional Aries. I think it is an important issue, why is no one really caring about its gravity and doing something? So I simply rolled my sleeves and started do something that is hard to me. My backgrounds and experiences include studying in law school, working in financial industry, and then engaging in international disaster relief. All are not directly related to agriculture!
You also must convenience old and traditional farmers who have been cultivating crops for decades that you have to cherish your land, and don't use chemical fertilizers. They reacted, “You are retired and have a sufficient pension. You can do what you prefer. But we must raise our families.” The talk does highlight the key point.
So, if you can't deliver an economic satisfaction to producers through a friendly approach which can pay back producers’ efforts. He/she will still follow the loops what they are used to. This is the momentum pushes me to get involved and the original intention of Precious Land.
Rice is the staple food in Taiwan, so I targeted at planting rice as the first step. At initial phase, I positioned myself as a holiday farmer. Then steps by steps, I had harvested and shared with relatives and friends first. A senior farmer next to my home said, “It is not right to share your friends for free. The behavior is just having fun for a retired person like you.”
So, I am wondering my ideas are feasible or not? By applying a producer-and-environment-friendly approach, can I practically deliver a business model that motivates those who, even young generation or existing traditional farmers, want to come back for plantation or make changes? I have been working over 10 years to formulate the business model on Precious Land. That is how Precious Land starts.
After harvesting rice from Precious Land, I would like to propose our outputs, then followed by questions. In the past 10 years, I estimate 400 units supporting Precious Land. How to define a unit and its support?
A unit pays NTD 5,200/year in advance, NTD 2 million in total by 400 supporting units (supports). Having the funds, I can rent lands, collect the substitute cultivator, go to the field to take care of irrigation, hire contractors for rice drying, and then pack products. Then 400 supports receive rice packages.
A built consensus among all 400 supporting units is “We will shoulder the sales risk of the small farmers.” That means under the spirits of contract farming all crops have been sold to supporters in advance and they share all risks during plantation. It operates like a club of rice shareholders. What if something surprising happens like typhoon, zero harvest or other impacts?For example, this year, because of impacts of climate change, so the production has dropped sharply, but everyone co-shares the risk under no-refund policy. Ah, under such operational mechanism, the small farmer will have a basic guarantee of living.
What is the role of supporters? They support small producers to preserve the lands and co-deliver a system under existing capitalist market that can organize a group connecting costumers and producers. To satisfy demands of costumers, framers will follower it accordingly. Checking the operation, it stills costumers take the lead by proposing requests.
Now talking about my role. I become a non-traditional producer and deliver such operational model. That is why Joann gives “Precious Land” to the model. Because “Land” means the place to produce quality rise, a stable food to Taiwanese. By definition it is clear that we are not to cultivate fruits, vegetables, or non-staple foods by natural farming.
What does “Precious” mean? Basically, it presents a feeling of respect and preciousness, so "Precious Land" is about land, and "Happy Farmer" is about people. So how to bring happiness to famers? You must give a rationale delivering comfort, confidence and social responsibility to both customer and producer.
As we emphasize Three Talents, “Heaven, Earth and Human”, to enable the whole environment and you are a part of it. The whole scope of climate change is inclusive with alternative options, so if Three Talents can operate with balance, we might have a prospective future.
On the other hand, Three Talents cannot operate with balance; human is too greedy; land is at its last gasp; and climate change deteriorates the world. I think it is clear what will happen to us in the future. That means the bomb of climate change is ticking now and I am so concerned of the developing crisis.
There are a lot of very idealistic people, more or less, they do support us and I am not sure how much. As Joann named the title, “Precious Land”, I was really impressed because She just made it very clear what we want to do. What we are doing is “ to preserve the land”, instead of selling rice. Your support is a proof of acknowledgement.
Through building a partnership, we safeguard our homeland, a common interest to us. That is the status and development of Precious Land, including its ideals and practical challenges in operation.
Host: I am proposing a question that Precious Land has be operating over 10 years and do you observe any changes in your surroundings? Because once you were a layman in farming and were alone in Hualien when you initiated the idea.
A-Gui: Well, I think the base of partnership is we have consensus and common grounds that is a chemical of mutual attraction. Not because I convince my friends. You'll meet some people who have the same philosophy. They recognize my ideas, not Ah Gui, and agree to co-work.
Even silently working on my land, I could find someone was doing the same. Yes, I did find some. The number was very limited, very few. I counted by two hands. At that time the community just gathered dozens of small farmers who planted vegetables at very tiny scale. And large-scale plantation of stable food was rare because it required certain economy of scale. To achieve economy of scale, you must establish a sales model which can sustain it.
About human factor, it is hard to tell who ever receives influence from us. It is not obvious even anyone who joins us. Some of them have their own expertise, then contributing participation into a specific network. And I am a nod to the network. The network has been existing, not delivered by me. In the network, you can find mutual supports, mutual case and mutual attraction.
Then I started joining the network and participating in it. I could observe supports at spiritual level. About practical and close interactions among participants, I find some among three or four. That is close interactions for mutual idea exchange including methodology of farming.
Within the network, A-De, my neighbor, is the most critical one to me. During the first one-and-half years, we were just exchanging a look, but we didn’t know each other and what we were doing. A-De was wondering What a strange way of rice farming? After planting rice seedlings, no watering the paddy field. I think A-De, an experienced farmer, should recognize me as a harmless and retired person to take rice farming for fun, and feel awkward about me but we are friends. A-De is a good tutor to me in conventional farming and has lots of know-how.
Now A-De has developed a know-how, it is clear. He owns two plots of land, Plot A and Plot B. For the first rice plantation, Plot A is for rice plantation and Plot B is for green manure. In Hualien, rice paddy has two harvests in a year. For the second rice plantation, A and B will have reverse plantation, A for green manure and B for rice. Because of the alternatives between dryland farming and irrigated farming, condition of water in the land creates a unique ecological environment to pests. When the time is pests become booming, but the land adopts dryland farming to suppress pests or diseases. But when weeds start growing and leads to having pests or diseases, because of dryland farming. It is the timing to take the alternative, irrigated farming. So, the alternative framing does help to mitigate the concerns of diseases or pests.
Host: When listening to your talks, it reminds me of a book, “Farms of Tomorrow Revisited: Community-Supported”. Now what you have been working is to implement the ideas. The author emphasized it is important to collect community-based participation, which is a formality of strong and deep inter-connection. The kind of community can connect everyone and integrate stakeholders and farming. As you mentioned, the way of farming is what you address much. Because of have a community, it is more than risk sharing by all, but having mutual supports.
However what interests most is you have been operating the model over 10 years. You and Joann started from ground zero. Now more people join you two and witness the change from traditional framing to ecological-friendly one. What you have achieved renews the way we treat our homeland.
What is the future you want to hold at hands? Prof. Otto ever mentioned. If you came to the end of life, the most frequent question could be: “At the last moment, reviewing your lifespan, what do you want leave for Taiwan or the world?
In fact, the fundamental principle is “being a decent person.” Because of the current standard of “being a nice person” is little bit too low.
Some are used to say,” being nice to friends” is the way of being a nice person. But to me, that is a basic manner. For example, “respect teachers”, some might say, “How?” or “it is an old-fashion style.” “I have paid tuition and must evaluate teacher’s performance.” If having someone pay a real respect to teacher, we might say it is wonderful. I don’t it is a normal norm, to myself, keeping basic values is the basic quality of “being a decent person.”
If something really matters, it is a feeling of “no-regret” in my life. I am over 60s and looking back my life. Honestly speaking, I feel “no regret” if I left the world today. What if it did happen, I feel so sorry for Joann because she is supposed to leave the world earlier than I do. How come? What if I left her alone first! What if I left her alone first!
If I would leave her alone first, I am conducting an inventory check of what really means in my life. Delivering “Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief (HADR)” and working under Tzu Chi to promote HADR are the same as what I have been working now. Both basically keeps values of our society. From the bottom of your minds, some echo does exist, but you lay less attention to it. So, you might feel lost by following external affairs, the external includes expectations that others impose on you to obey social values.
If you find conflicts between echo in your mind and social values, it is a disturbance. The disturbance might always challenge you or it could be quiet for five or six years then become a turbulence again. I am kind of example. Following social expectations to pass the entrance examination of university and enroll in laws school, but I didn’t why I chose laws school and how I pass the exam. And a reaction is “How comes he can pass the exam!” By the way, I had no ideas what to do after graduation. That is to satisfy “social expectation.”
However, most people though I have done an excellent job. It was a judgement according to what it looked like. But deep inside myself, I know it was not real and very empty. So, the disturbance might come to my mind once a while whenever I felt it. As the disturbance appeared, depending on its impact, I might be influenced. The impact seemed not big enough that I was still confined by “social expectation.”
By an occasional chance, I watched my mentor’s, Dharma Master Cheng Yen, teaching on TV. The teaching did inspire me and resonate my heart greatly. Suddenly I felt her words with wisdom released my suppression. Because I had been suppressed for a period, and the inspiration also enlighten me.
That inspiration has a profound influence on me, no matter in its power or time scale. Now I am not ambitious to accomplish something like revitalizing lots of lands in Taiwan or big promotion of natural farming. Not thinking it at all, otherwise it could be a huge gap between ideal and reality. But I never quit because of living in the real world.
And ideals and ideas give me momentum to do what I think is necessary. That is “Do your best and do your duty!” And to make it becomes your life attitude and your lifestyle, then you are a decent person. Nowadays people might not be aware of climate change or global warming in the past, but because everyone is a part of the global system and feels to do something as much as possible.
So, I just keep implementing my ideals and ideas as much as possible. By the way, I am so emotional and have supports of my wife. Two emotionals could deliver extreme outcomes like building a Ark-like house, not air-conditioned; promoting natural farming. These are two examples.
Therefore, in principle, we follow the concept of “no regret!” It means if we left the world today, we feel “no regret.” If one more day we could have, I want to accomplish more. Because of more items to achieve, it is a goal to be inclusive by multiple participations. By doing so, you will have a steady mission and you must complete it. Even you failed, you have completed the processes of how to do it. It is personality integrity. Personality integrity is more essential than what and how much you have achieved.
Another important factor is the sense of sensibility, even you might be severely challenges. For example, you could have a mission impossible. Maybe you feel hard-working or tired. We should learn to have a playful attitude and easy mind and know staring point and end point. “Starting point” means to keep the concept and attitude when you are doing something. “End point” means we might achieve noting. Like climate change or food crisis could forever last, but only does hope of a perfect world appear after we do something at least.
Personality integrity, helping anyone is suffering, is the most important factor. I know land is suffering from environmental degradation, I need to be a consumer and a produce with social responsibility! I am aware of environmental challenges we are facing now, and we should work out something to be environment friendly. That’s my personal decision. Looking at myself, especially now, Joann and I feel “no regret.”
We are so satisfied with what we own together, even Joann is at the final stage of her life. We have brainstorming together what she could do as much as possible until the last day. Sure, it makes us sad and reluctant, but not being a negative spiraling down. We, normal two, could feel sad or happy. We want to be happy as much as possible and we may fail in being so.
When I achieved something and feel satisfied. My satisfaction doesn’t come completing five or six natural farming or preserving 500-acre lands. I am happy because of delivering a good model with know-how. The model has supports of both capital market and morality that is why I feel satisfied.
If more people recognize the values of the model, then we can promote it and make it solid. Through good presentations, we can present the concept to capable people who also want do likewise. If they can find a feasible approach of natural faring, they will implement it. That is my next step.
(Host) Sorry. You make me tearful.
( A-Gui) I keep my attention at the camera and miss your appearance.
(Host) I cannot stop crying.
( A-Gui) You are so easy to be tearful.
(Host) I have proposed most questions.
Host: The last part of our interview. I think it exactly what Prof. Otto Scharmer addressed, “Who am I? Why I am here?” And they have a kind of spirit- “Do as much as possible!” During the delivery, they might fine tune what are doing now, then moving forward. Then I should be the one who takes the lead, or who else? If we just want to follow a leader, there will be no none to find a path leading to success.
A-Gui: You know I also feel depressed. I am a normal person to have kind of feeling. However, that day I have personal talks with Prof. Otto. He said, “Don’t be sad. Around the world, many people are like you. You are all tinkling like fireflies, small but shinny.” Prof. Otto knows our hardship and encourages us with prudent optimism. As a master like Prof. Otto, he observes we are doing something quietly and alone, but his encouragement motivated me a lot. So, please share Prof. Otto’s ideas with other. His ideas do inspire people.
Host: I think someone will contact you after watching the video.
My last question. About young generation, I find more and more youngsters plan to inherit farm and be the second generation. Do you have any suggestions for them? If they plan to implement some changes. It takes time to alternate ideas and concept of old generation. So, any advices or shortcuts for the youth?
A-Gui: First, the youth own less, so they have nothing to loss. It means the risk is limited. Because of low risk, the young generation has more space, more vigor and more execution. Therefore, “Just do it!”, “Give yourself a trial!” The youngsters have time and space to do creative trial at staring point of life. If you have an idea or inspiration which you think it is a must-be, you have to offer yourself more than once chance to work it out.
What “more than once chance” means? When you have a self-reflection at midnight, you can be a person of integrity. As you decide to come back home and do what you should, you might keep the idea in mind and not share it with your parents or anyone. That is I mean “more than once chance” and that is my first advice.
Second advice: Never being reckless. Young generation is full of idealism and strong desire to do something. But it doesn’t mean to be so reckless. When you receive words of concerns, it should not frustrate you. The words must come from who care you so much. They share ideas with you based on their experiences because of possible risks. To them in some degree, your behaviors are against the whole current system including core values. The way of your farming might not feed yourself and even your families.
The youth need to be patient in implementing new way of farming. That is delivering by “step-by-step” progress which is not an ambitious step, but a stead, small and patient one. Because of being young, he or she has opportunity to try and always keeps being idealistic. But please take stead, small and patient steps. I think they will succeed with great possibility.
Though we have been living in a rigid and capitalist society, but opportunities still exist anytime anywhere. There are pioneers have made systematic revolutions and they have paved the foundation for us. When he/she has ideals to deliver a change, stepping on the shoulders of pioneers is the way to give a trial.
For example, we have been stepping on Prof. Warren H.J. Kou’s shoulders, I think even on his head. In fact, after taking a lot of critics, Prof. Kuo still keeps moving forward. To be idealistic is to be persistent and consistent. Because others might dislike your persistence and consistency which is against those with vested interests. They could criticize you more, but keeping persistent, consistent and alive is a solution.
Host: I am so touched and sorry for bothering you to reserve your time because you must stay in the hospital with Joann today. We sincerely hope more people in Taiwan can know your story, then start doing a little for themselves, even just doing something minor. I do feel supportive through the interview. Thank you and do take care.
Crystal C.Y. Huang (interviewer)
Jayce Pei Yu Lee (editing)
Voices: Hsin-Yi Chang & Crystal C.Y. Huang
The love and life sessions that stray animals have taught us.
A group of people came together on Liuqiu Island because of stray animals. These stray animals were kept in the island's garbage dump as if they were the island's waste, and the volunteers did not accept this definition.
Some people love dogs and some are afraid of them. Through daily walks and meals, these dogs regain their trust towards human beings, and human beings are also melted by the pure trust of animals.
Through the sensing experience and walk into the situation that these puppies are coming from human abandonment, these volunteers help stray animals to find homes, and in that process advocate that every life needs to be treated equally.
The experience on Liuqiu Island is a microcosm of our current society: humans are only one of the millions species on the planet earth. While human beings are cared for and embraced by nature, humans also need to care for other living beings, not only the environment, but also treating other creatures on planet earth equally and with love.
The entire space surrounds us in a state of flow, presence and contemplation of the movement of life.
Hsin-Yi Chang & Crystal Huang
Liuqiu Island, the only offshore coral reef island of Taiwan, and the island with the highest density of sea turtles in the world, attracts millions of tourists; it also brings together a group of environmental guardians because of their love for this island.
The members of Taiwan Coral Island Association convey what we understand from the ocean through heart, hands and actions, to advocate our respect for nature and the awareness that everyone of us is a guardian of Mother Earth.
Angel Lee, Fion Lin, Crystal Huang
"In between those shimmering lights, I discover the healing power of nature, through camera lens and and paint brushes to record everything that nature has given to me with resonance."
Angel Lee, the quester of uncovering shimmering lights
Even in an inconspicuous corner, there is a huge power belonging to nature; as long as you are seeing it through fresh eyes, you can discover the power and gifts contained in the depths of nature.
Surprisingly in the abyss of the chaotic and bewilder mind, through a healing journey into nature, continuing the back-and-forth dialogue with nature produces ecological-creation that resonates with symbiosis.
Joann Yang, KC Huang, Crystal C.Y. Huang
Life is between inhale and exhale,
Time is passing by in every second,
This is more than ordinary for anyone,
Who would have thought of the last moment of life?
A life dialogue between Joann, KC and Crystal, through their collective cancer journey, contemplating impermanence and the meaning of life, as well as what footprints they want to leave behind. How to stand up, to experience the future uncertainty and possibilities, and to stay resilient with what they inspire to do and onward.
Gloria Sun, Xiuping Chen, Crystal C.Y. Huang
A group of people gather at Dongshan (Yilan, Taiwan) with an aspiration towards alternative education and lifestyle. They have initiated adult learning processes in biodynamic farming, spiritual science, art therapy, and more. Conversations with children or household chore management can also become sources of self-growth, if approached with love and consciousness. Their intention is to rejuvenate and enliven the cultural life of the community. This is the story of a community of human souls interconnected through courage, hope and enthusiasm.
Artist: Etan Pavavalung
Host: Jayce Pei Yu Lee
Etan Pavavalung is a contemporary artist from the Paiwan Indigenous Group, whose artistic philosophy revolves around the journey of lifelong reconstruction of identity.
Through his three stages of inquiry in life -- conscious awakening, spiritual window, symbiosis with the earth -- he constantly interweaves and reflects on the identity and mission of the culture. He explores the symbiotic relationship between harmonious coexistence with the ecology and the legacy of traditional culture.
Chien-Che Chan
Crystal C.Y. Huang
An educational practitioner who has been immersed in Anthroposophy and Eurythmy for a long time, Chien-Che Chan calls himself Eurythmy's "gardener", and he is a former teacher at the Taiwan Waldorf School.
In order to study Anthroposophy and Eurythmy, he went to Switzerland to study and traveled back and forth between Switzerland, China and Taiwan for a long time to support the Waldorf community. He is now settled in Yulin and Hsinchu in Taiwan, to support children’s learning journey.
Through the rhythm of the heart, Chien-Che brings real artistic inspiration to the child, seeing the shining and unique quality in each child, letting him truly meet the soul of the child. Through open mind, open heart, open will, he creates and cultivate holding spaces and containers for children and the community, to let people's highest future potential continue to unfold.
Jin-Gui Xie, also known as ‘A-Gui’, has a background in law, investment and financial consulting. He is a veteran with over 20 years of experience in International disaster relief missions. He calls himself a ‘Field worker’ and is a caretaker of the land.
A-Gui has the "DNA of sustainability" in him, and is a firm believer that even the smallest act can contribute to the larger ecosystem. He perceives the world as being severely affected by natural and human disasters, in particular climate change. His sense of urgency prompted him to turn the beam of observation back onto himself: thus he started to cultivate a small rice paddy with his wife Joann using techniques of natural farming. He operates in the Ji-An township in Hualien, eastern Taiwan, since over 10 years now. He facilitates consumers and farmers in their relationship to the land, to nurture more deeply connected and harmonious relationships. His intention is for all individuals in the ecological system to be able to connect with each other, and to jointly create common good for all. He encourages the young generation to act bravely, because small acts matter, and there is nothing to lose in taking action to make a change in the world.
This is a short extract and reflection of A-Gui’s story, recorded next to his wife’s sickbed in hospital, on 12th June 2022.