Making Changes: Recent Episodes

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Aliw Pablo: You know, it’s not everyday that I get to catch up with an old friend.

Aliw Pablo: Okay, go.

Brother Andrey Silva: It’s part of the blooper reel. Can we put a blooper reel together?

Aliw Pablo: Yes!

Aliw Pablo: And it’s even more special when that friend is someone who’s gone through so many unique life-changing experiences. Like my friend, Brother Andrey Silva.

Aliw Pablo: Okay. Hello, Brother Andrey Silva. How are you?

Brother Andrey: Great. How are you, Sister Aliw?

Aliw: I’m good. Welcome to the Making Changes Podcast.

Brother Andrey: Glad to be here.

[Show open]

Aliw Pablo: If you were a young adult in the nineties like me, you might’ve heard of Brother Andrey. He was the lead singer of Kai, the first (and until now, the only) Filipino boy band who found mainstream success and popularity in the US. A lot has changed since his music career with Kai. Now, Brother Andrey is a minister of the gospel in the Church Of Christ. So today, we’re going to talk about all of the changes he’s gone through, and the life of service that God has paved for him. I’m Aliw Garcia Pablo, and you’re listening to a special episode of Making Changes.

Aliw Pablo: Well, we’re so glad that you traveled all the way here from Texas.

Brother Andrey: Yes.

Aliw: Just to be here on our podcast today.

Brother Andrey: Thank you for having me and praises be to our Lord God.

Aliw: So Brother Andrey, for those that are, you know, who may have known you from years and years ago, like you and I have known each other for like thirty years already. Well, our age has just been revealed. But for those that have known you for a long time and are probably wondering what happened… Brother Andrey Silva, where have you been? What have you been up to?

Brother Andrey: I’ve been in Africa for the… decade, almost a decade. I was assigned there as a minister, doing the work of the ministry in Africa. You know, I often tell the brethren that, you know, as ministers who are assigned there, we were able to have a front row seat to the amazing things that our Lord God was doing for the Church on that continent. It was a lot of work, and so we also witnessed how God truly upheld us as we fulfilled our duties in the ministry; taking care of the brethren, making sure that the Church would progress and grow, which was the aim of the Church Administration in the first place for sending us there. Many memorable experiences. I learned how to ride a horse in Africa.

Aliw: I have seen those pictures, like on mountain tops, right?

Brother Andrey: Yes. There in the country of Lesotho, which is known as the Mountain Kingdom, there was a group of people or a village there in the middle of the mountains, who were thirsting for the words of God. And we’ve had brethren who are from there wanting us to share the words of God there, and so we would have to ride two hours on horseback up and down about five mountains before we would reach that village. A village called Ha-Lerumonyane Village. And a memorable experience in that place is the first time I was able to go there. ‘Cause I remember how difficult it was to get there, you know, it’s very-

Aliw: Have you ridden horses before?

Brother Andrey: That was the first time, and so very painful.

Aliw: I can imagine. For two hours?

Brother Andrey: Two hours on a mountain, rocky.

Aliw: One way. Two hours on a mountain, one way.

Brother Andrey: One way. Two hours, one way. But to finally get to that last mountain, and as soon as you get over that peak, the village can see that you’re almost to their village. They’re still quite a distance away, but they’re waiting to see that silhouette to cross that peak. And as soon as they saw us along with the translator and the other Basotho people that were with me, you start hearing the village singing and chanting.

Aliw: Wow.

Brother Andrey: Singing and chanting. I was like, “What is that? What are they singing?” You know? I was asking my translator. He said, “Oh, they’re singing a song about how the minister is now here and we will be able to hear the words of God and such.” And so, that was a very touching moment, just to see how they were thirsting to hear the teachings that we have inside the Church, and so that was a very touching moment for us. Yeah.

Aliw: You know, speaking of music, I mean we know that, you know, you are very musically gifted and to be able to spend a decade in a country where people, I mean, music is their language.

Brother Andrey: Yeah.

Aliw: Were you able to also, you know, do music while you were there?

Brother Andrey: We were able to have many musical projects there by the mercy of our Lord God, you know. And as mentioned music is a very natural thing for the African people.

Brother Andrey: When they’re happy, they sing. When they’re sad, they sing. When they’re angry, whatever emotion they’re feeling, they convey it through song. So, you know, to have music made for the Church was very easy, very enjoyable, to work with the brethren in regards to that.

Brother Andrey: We were able to make different ranges of music to the traditional type of African music, to what they like to call Afro-beats, more contemporary music, we were able to do that. And music videos as well. And so, that was one of the more memorable things as well, to be able to connect to the brethren that way.

Aliw: And when you, you know, when you think back, Brother Andrey, when you were growing up here in the Bay Area, in a million years, did you ever imagine spending a whole decade in Africa in a life of service?

Brother Andrey: I didn’t think in two million years that I would ever get that experience, but you know, when I first heard that I was going to go to Africa, of course, I was excited. You know? It’s because for the most part, the continent was somewhat of an untouched region when it came to the works that we have in the Church. There was a presence already in certain countries, but continent as a whole, there was still a lot of work to be done because our mission was the expansion of the Church in Africa. And so, you know, the guidance of the Church Administration, you know, pulled us through so many times. The inspiration that we received from our beloved Executive Minister pulled us through so many times. Those difficult times when, you know, we were driving those long distances, leaving the house when the sun wasn’t even up yet, coming home when the sun had already set, not getting to spend time with our family as much. You know, they understood what the mission was, why we were there, and so they were very supportive.

Aliw: Yes. We’re going to just take, take a trip down memory lane a little bit to just kind of really show just how full circle your life has come, you know? For those of you watching us at home or listening to us, if you were a teenager in the nineties, then you probably have heard of a little group called Kai. Do you remember that group, Brother Andrey?

Brother Andrey: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Aliw: So you know, it’s just so amazing that you’re talking about making music in Africa and just all the experiences you had there, but in reality, it seems like God was already paving the way.

Brother Andrey: Absolutely, yeah.

Aliw: So take us back to you know, when you were a teenager here in the Bay Area, which by the way, I should say I do remember when–because we were both in Fremont local, right, in the nineties–you and some of the guys there, you guys would always sing acapella in the mens bathroom because the acoustics were really good. Right? But how did you end up in a group called Kai, and how it just became to be still to this day, the only Filipino boy band that actually reached mainstream? How did it all begin?

Brother Andrey: Well, like you mentioned, you know, it all started in the local congregation of Fremont. You know, me and my brother and two other brothers had a little acapella group and, you know, we used to sing, for church functions.

Aliw: So here’s the origin story of Kai—one day, Brother Andrey went to a family party, where he started to jam on the piano with a cousin whom he hadn’t met before. He later found out that Brother Andrey sang with a group of his friends at Church, and invited him to one of their practices.

Brother Andrey: And ever since then, at that point, you know, we were developing, musically, you know, even more. To the point where, you know, we were almost going to call it quits because, you know, we had been doing it, maybe, two years at that point.

Aliw: And you guys were all in high school?

Brother Andrey: We were all in high school, and some of us were graduating. Already wanted to move on, go to college, you know, think of our future careers and all of that. And then, before we were going to hang it up, you know, the gloves, we all decided, you know, this. We should record a song, just so we could show our future kids that—”hey, look, Daddy used to sing.” And we recorded this song and it was a song called, “Say You’ll Stay”. And, we decided, you know, well, just for fun, you know, since we’re going to quit anyway, but let’s just send it out to all these radio stations. Because we had friends. who were also working at radio stations, who kind of gave us, you know, the information to where to send it. And so we sent it out just for fun, not thinking anything of it. And before we knew it, you know, these stations were starting to play it and it was gaining popularity, like people were actually starting to request it. It started there in the Deep South, there in Louisiana—

Aliw: Louisiana of all places!

Brother Andrey: Yeah, and so before we knew it, it was gaining popularity, getting noticed by Billboard. You know, we were charting on Billboard as an unsigned act. And so, that’s when we were getting calls, you know, from major record labels. And so, you know, I guess the rest is history, right? Then we went on to do some things in the music industry.

Aliw: And what was that one big record label company that actually came knocking on your door?

Brother Andrey: It was several, but we chose to sign with a record company called Geffen Records. Yeah. Geffen Records, who are also part of Dreamworks, and we were able to do tours and all of that, other experiences, performing with very big acts and names.

Aliw: So before you, I mean, obviously you were the only member of the Church—

Brother Andrey: During that time.

Aliw Pablo: …during that time in the group. How did you come to the decision to join? You had to be signed to be a, you know, officially signed with a record label company, which meant you’re going to tour and there’s just a lot more demands. So what was that decision process for you like?

Brother Andrey: Well, you know, part of that decision was my membership in the Church Of Christ. That was one of the things that I took serious consideration in, especially being reminded by my dad and my family, you know? “You better not miss the worship service.” And it’s true, you know, and I think at that point, you know, just to bring me back down to Earth, I needed to hear that. You know, I can’t, I can’t miss the worship service. I have to include God in this plan, you know, every step of the way.

Brother Andrey: …which was also what I heard from many of the ministers that I was asking advice from during that time. Brother Steve Kroll, you know, he advised me so much during that time. And, I remember him telling me, “You need to include God in every part of this plan. He has a plan for you. Make sure He’s part of it, and so, you know, before I signed the contract with the record label, I asked if they could add a stipulation—

Aliw: In the contract.

Brother Andrey: Yes, that my religious practice, my attendance of the worship service has to take precedence over all things—shows and everything. And they said, okay, they put it in. That’s when I said, okay, fine, I will sign.

Aliw: And the rest of the group—they were okay with that?

Brother Andrey: Yeah, the guys knew how important my membership in the Church was. They never questioned it. You know, and if anything, you know, when I mentioned that, they were like, “Oh, yeah. That’s right. Can you put that in the contract for him?”

Aliw: Oh, that’s nice.

Brother Andrey: So, you know, I signed it. And you know, I know that God was part of the plan because when I talked to one of the high executives of Geffen Records. We were talking with him, you know, and then that whole thing about Church came up. And he said, “Church Of Christ, Iglesia Ni Cristo? Do you have a church there on Clay and Divisadero in San Francisco?”

Aliw: He knew!

Brother Andrey: Yeah. And I was like, “Yeah, how did you know?” He’s like, “I used to live across the street.”

Aliw: Wow.

Brother Andrey: “You guys took all the parking every Sunday and Thursday.” He was just joking. But he said, you know, “The brethren in your Church are amazing. They’re so nice and accommodating.” So he remembered that, and he said, “Yeah, yeah, you can go. You need to go to church.”

Aliw: So of all the executives, right in this huge—

Brother Andrey: Yeah, out of all the record labels that they were, you know, we picked this one who happens to know—

Aliw: And the executive you were assigned knew the Church. And so what did you have to do to make sure that, you know, they checked the cities?

Brother Andrey: Oh, they asked for a copy of the latest issue of the God’s Message Magazine. Because at the back, (at that time) it’s still the 1990s, you know, there’s a whole directory. And they would base our travels and everything on the schedule of the worship service of where we were going to be at. And so, I was like, you know, God is really part of this, which was, you know, it made me more confident to pursue it even more. And, you know, another thing that I realized, now looking back, God really wanted me to learn about the music industry, maybe, and how to produce music and to write and how to use a studio and all of those things, so that now I can, you know, be blessed to be entrusted, to be contributing to the music of the Church.

Aliw: Decades later.

Brother Andrey: Decades later. And so, I know that was the reason, you know, and I’m so happy and I feel so blessed to have that kind of guidance to where it would lead me to be able to contribute to the needs of the Church.

Aliw: You know, let’s go back a little bit on the whole, you know, your dad, you know, did say make sure you don’t miss worship service, you know, but you’re a kid at that time, you know, you’re a teenager, young—

Brother Andrey: Seventeen, eighteen.

Aliw: Right? You’re, you know, and it would be so tempting to be like, “Well, my dad’s not with me on this tour. You know, I could just..I mean, I’m busy. I’m tired. I just had a concert and—” But what was it that just at that age, you know, that you just never you never let go of that, and you just really made no excuses no matter what.

Brother Andrey: Yeah.

Aliw: You were still—

Brother Andrey: Even if I had to drive three hours by myself. Because we were that far away from a chapel in some part of the country, I would go the night before. I would look for it just so the next morning I wouldn’t get lost. So, I would always make that effort only because, you know, number one, you know, I was God-conscious about everything. That he was really behind this—you know, talking to the executives, talking to Brother Steve Kroll—who guided me through all of this. I already knew that he was— And so, you know, me, being God-conscious, I didn’t want to, you know, not hold my end of the bargain, my promise that he would be part of the plan. And I would make sure that my services to him would never be hindered, you know, by this great experience that he’d—Imagine, you know, he’s already blessed me with this kind of experience. And then that blessing is the reason why my services to him would be hindered? I would not allow that to happen, you know? And so, I would always make time and. And, you know, and even though my dad or my family wasn’t with us on the road, you know, God was with us on the road. He’s with us all, all the time, everywhere…

Aliw: He would know if you miss worship service.

Brother Andrey: He would know. And so, I guess my integrity to my promise to God was one of the things that drove me to be serious about it.

Aliw: So, even though you were, you know, seventeen, eighteen years old at that time, you were already—you weren’t a minister yet, obviously, but you were pretty—you were always sharing your faith already.

Brother Andrey: Yeah. I was, you know, the Church, you know, all the teachings that we hold. And when it comes to salvation, you know, even at that young age, I already knew that, that the Church, it was necessary in one’s life to be able to have a relationship with God, to be able to have a peaceful life, to be able to, you know, have that peace in the end, you know, when everything has gone. You know, the day of judgment, salvation, that kind of thing. So, meaning to say, you know, in the grand scheme of things, our membership in the Church Of Christ is a matter of life and death. And so, I wanted to share that with everyone that I cared about. You know, I even shared it with my band mates, you know, introduced it to them, and invited them all the time.

Aliw: I mean, just you making sure that you never missed worship service.

Brother Andrey: Absolutely. They saw it, you know, they saw it. And there were times when some of them would come with me, you know? And so, you know, in that sense, you know, I wanted to be able to do my part to invite. And I knew my part was to invite, the rest of it would be God, you know, letting them hear the word of God, letting them have that seed of faith being planted in them.

Aliw: Right.

Brother Andrey: And once that’s planted and they expressed their interest in the Church, then I would be the one to take care of them. So, that was always what was in my mind.

Aliw: So, a lot of people who have known you, you know, since Kai days and they’re watching this, you know, and seeing you for the first time in decades, probably wondering, how do you go from, you know, Kai, how do you go from being with, big record label company and now a minister of the gospel? This podcast is called Making Changes, right? How do you go from that to making the biggest change in your life?

Brother Andrey: You know, when it comes to making that kind of a change in your life, something so drastic. And that was pretty drastic.

Aliw: That’s huge.

Brother Andrey: You kind of have to understand the will of God for you and know that he has the plan for you and allow that change to happen, embracing and trusting in what God has planned for you. And so that’s kind of what I experienced. You know, I was in this singing group, you know, and we gained some type of popularity. And I understood, part of it is me understanding that God is the One who allowed me to experience this great opportunity and experience and to hold on to that promise that you made to God to dedicate your life to Him in service.

Brother Andrey: And so God was really the one who called me into the ministry, because if it was up to me, you know, it wasn’t something that was in my mind to join the ministry at all. I also had a career in real estate before the ministry, and, you know, just looking at everything on paper by human standards, I was good. I was doing well, in life, you know, I could establish my life already, but I just couldn’t get the ministry out of my mind. And so that’s what I often tell young brothers that I get to speak with. When they asked me about the ministry because they feel like maybe they’re being called, I said, you know, if you can’t get it out of your mind, that’s God calling you. Now, you’re either going to answer the call or not. But imagine the great blessings you’ll receive, what you will gain if you are able to answer the call of God and to submit to His plan for you. Allow that to happen, you know. And that’s what I did. I just allowed it to happen.

Aliw: So, how did you get the first call?

Brother Andrey: Okay, so, our resident minister during that time was recruiting me to join the ministry, or he was encouraging me to join the ministry and I was a little resistant in the beginning. But I said to myself, okay, you know, this might be God calling me. Let me have a panata for one week.

Aliw: What’s a “panata” for those that don’t—

Brother Andrey: Panata is a devotional prayer. You set a time, every single day for that period of time that you’re going to have that panata or devotional prayer, and you hold your devotional prayer. And I held mine in the chapel for seven days.

Aliw: Right.

Brother Andrey: So, first day, up until the seventh day, I exit the sanctuary of the local of Fremont. I’m walking to my car, and then the resident minister pulls up.

Aliw: And you had already finished your seven days of devotional prayer?

Brother Andrey: I’m already finished and I’m thinking I’m done. I’m going to go to my car. Go home. And then he said, “Bro. Andrey, come with me to my office. I need to give you something.” I’m like, okay, I’m not thinking anything of it. Right. He said, go ahead and sit down there on the desk. I said, okay. Then he pulls out of the drawer. He puts this piece of paper down on the desk and slides it to me, and it’s an application form for the Ministry. I said, okay.

Brother Andrey: Yeah. So you know, and I signed the application and filled it up and they sent it in and then, not thinking anything of it. And then there was a special gathering for the applicants. And so we went, I went to go meet there, and there were more applications to fill. And the one leading that particular meeting was Brother Bob Pellien.

Aliw: Right.

Brother Andrey: He was the District Minister at that time. And so, you know, me being still kind of 50/50 about it, you know, he said okay. “I need you to read the directions, and I need you to fill out the form.” I said, “This is probably God’s calling.” So, I said, going back to God’s calling me. And then I attend the first preparatory class, which was held in the US West Office, at that time in Daly City. I was lacking confidence, to tell you the truth. But I just kept going. And I kept learning. And, I was able to finish the preparatory class with him. And I gained so much knowledge about the words of God, the pristine teachings that we uphold, the characteristics and values, the qualities that ministers should have, the values . And, you know, I started getting more serious about it. So if during the beginning of prep, I was 50/50, I was more 60/40 now.

Aliw: Yeah.

Brother Andrey: And so, you know, after prep, “we’ll request from the church admin, no guarantee, guard your hearts, pray alot. I was thinking to myself, I was probably not going to make it. Then I got a call, you know, a month later after that. “Brother Andrey, you’ve been approved to go to the Philippines.”

Aliw: Had you been to the Philippines before?

Brother Andrey: I had been to the Philippines before, but with the band.

Aliw: Oh, that’s right. Yes, yes.

Brother Andrey: Yeah. And so, my experience of the Philippines was red carpet, you know, nice hotels, good food, the restaurants, all of that. And so, I’m thinking, “Wow, the Philippines is nice.”

Aliw: Air condition all the time.

Brother Andrey: Air condition all the time. This is going to be a breeze. You know? And so, I leave for the Philippines for the ministry. I get there. I was like, thinking, I was like, maybe I should call my mother to get me a ticket to go home, you know?

Aliw: But what made you stay? You obviously didn’t go home, what made you keep going?

Brother Andrey: You know, my family. Has a big part to do with them. My dad, my mom, you know. Well, “you’re there already, you know, man up”

Aliw: That’s tough love right there. You made your bed…

Brother Andrey: “You’re already there. What are you doing?” You know. Yeah. So I said okay, fine. But, you know, I would spend nights in my bed crying, you know, and I set up another panata or devotional prayer in the [Central] Temple, you know asking if He was really calling me. “Are you sure?”

Aliw: Because you’re like, “Because I’m not.”

Brother Andrey: Yeah. And so, you know, I was struggling, you know, I didn’t understand Tagalog. Look, I probably, you know, if I were to attend the Tagalog worship service around that time, I probably understood maybe 3 to 5% of what it means because I really didn’t know any Tagalog.

Aliw: Really?

Brother Andrey: Any Filipino. The language.

Aliw: But you could sing Tagalog songs?

Brother Andrey: Because it’s on the screen in the karaoke. Like you can read them.

Aliw: That’s true.

Brother Andrey: But I didn’t understand them. and so, you know, I was having a really difficult time. How am I going to learn? All the classes are in Filipino. How am I going to, you know, communicate with my roommates? They’re all speaking Filipino, right? And so I’m in the [Central] Temple every day.

Aliw: Culture shock, then.

Brother Andrey: Culture shock, and just everything shock. I’m in the [Central] Temple, praying every single day, at a particular time, about it. But, you know, about a month into my devotional prayers, you know, I found myself kneeling in the [Central] Temple, crying, thanking God for calling me in the ministry. It was just, I guess, another change was made in me and, from that point onward, you know, I couldn’t see my life without the ministry.

Aliw: Wow. Yeah. You’ve been in the ministry now, Brother Andrey, for how many years now?

Brother Andrey: Many years.

Aliw: When you were ordained— What year? 2014?

Brother Andrey: 2014. The first ordination after the Centennial.

Aliw: But you first went to the Philippines in 2007. Okay, so the math is about seventeen years to—

Brother Andrey: About seventeen years.

Aliw: So in your seventeen years of being a minister, and even now as a district minister, obviously you’ve baptized so many souls, you’ve—you know, you’ve been an instrument to help change the lives of so many people, right? But looking back, there is one friend in your life that God used you to call. Tell us about him before we bring him on.

Brother Andrey: All right. You know, Brother Errol was one of the guys that I used to sing with. One of the more amazing vocals that you’ll ever hear, you know, coming out of a five foot one—I’m just kidding.

Brother Andrey: And, you know, I would consider Brother Errol’s life one of those, spiritual success stories, you know? It’s such a privilege, you know, to know that God may have used me as an instrument to be able to to help my friend, to help my brother. So, yeah Brother Errol.

Aliw: In our next episode, we’ll meet Errol. We’ll get to see and hear how special and deep his friendship-turned-brotherhood with Brother Andrey really is. And how their special bond that started with music, literally saved Errol’s life. Stay tuned for part 2 of this story.

Aliw: And if you found value in what you heard today, please share this with a friend or anyone you know that could use this story in their life. Listen to more episodes of Making Changes anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening and may your change uplift you!

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A Life of Service: Part 2

Brother Andrey Silva: And there were times when in the middle of the night he would give me a call, you know, pick me up and, you know, his face would be bloodied.

Errol: There’s so many times during the journey that I thought I was going to quit.

Aliw Pablo: Quit life? Quit the band? Quit—

Errol: Yeah. All of it.

Brother Andrey Silva:

One of the things that I saw that would help him make a change in his life, was if he was in the Church.

Aliw: You know, all friendships go through highs and lows but what happens when a friend refuses to give up in saving someone’s life? Refuses to give up in helping a friend make changes in his life?

Brother Andrey Silva: Because God is the solution to all things,

Aliw: Welcome to part two of our conversation with long time friends and KAI bandmates, Brother Andrey Silva and Errol Viray. You’re listening to this special episode of the Making Changes Podcast, I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo. Today’s episode is about friendships that run deep and friends who never give up.

Brother Andrey Silva: That was the only solution I can think of, to help my friend, my brother.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Well, hello, Errol.

Errol Viray: Hello.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Welcome to Making Changes podcast.

Errol Viray: Thank you for having me.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Can’t help but notice the shirt, though, like we got to show off the shirt.

Errol Viray: We had to, right?

Brother Andrey Silva: I’m trying to find out when I’m gonna get mine.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: You don’t have one?

Errol Viray: I sent it to your brother.

Brother Andrey Silva: You gave it to my brother?

Errol Viray: Yeah.

Brother Andrey Silva: You think that’s ever gonna touch my hands?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: I’ve been seeing these Kai shirts on social media. Is there, like, a ‘90s revival happening or what’s going on?

Errol Viray: Yeah, you know what? Very much so. So, it’s popping up everywhere right now and then with this, these shirts kind of came up because of demand, you know.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: But you know, when you guys look at that shirt, when you look back at those young boys at that time, and the dreams and things that you were looking forward to, who were Andrey and Errol in those shirts?

Brother Andrey Silva: We were starving artists. No, you know, when I look at that shirt, and during that time frame, we were some excited kids who were ready to embark on this amazing musical journey that our Lord God was allowing us to experience.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Yeah, but you know, your friendship goes beyond Kai. You know, there are people who are, who are in bands together, and it’s clearly just a working, professional relationship, right? But what kind of brotherhood did you guys have and share?

Brother Andrey Silva: When it comes to the name Kai, right? Like, it stands for Kaibigan or friendship. We chose that name because we were all friends before the band, you know, because we considered ourselves brothers, actually in that group. And so for us to be able to have those extraordinary experiences as brothers, you know, it made it more enjoyable, honestly and meaningful.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: You’re the only son in your family, right? Because you have sisters.

Errol Viray: Yes, three sisters.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Three sisters, yeah. And growing up, what kind of childhood did you have that, you know, having a friend like Andrey was, like, literally having a second brother?

Errol Viray: I had a hard upbringing, you know. So it was real, it was, it was a big difference. My mom and dad were very strict. I was also going through it during that time because my dad had left.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: You are now the man of the house.

Errol Viray: Correct, correct. I had to hold that mantle, and so being part of the group, being unified through that, I got a chance to see how life was outside of my family, right? So then we would hold rehearsals, for example, at, you know, Brother Andrey’s house. And I think sometimes we do it like on the, you know, going into the weekend, you know. So what turned into a rehearsal for me would go into a full weekend, staying at the Silva’s house, you know.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: You were the fourth son?

Errol Viray: Yeah, correct, yeah, correct. And they embraced me as such as Brother Andrey, you know, his mom, his dad, his brothers, obviously. And then, I just remember, you know, staying over that first time after rehearsing for, you know, for the week, for… on that Friday, going to the weekend and Sunday hit. And I think I was sleeping on your floor, man. I was on your floor sleeping, and then he wakes me up, “Hey, man, we’re going to church. I… Oh, I don’t have any clothes, man. So…

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Which is just just down the street. It’s just down the street from the chapel.

Errol Viray: It was just down the street, down the street from the chapel. I get in there, and, you know, it was so embracing. It was, it was refreshing. Everyone there was accepting. You know, you get in, you hear the words, you meet everybody, and you just feel part of it, right? They treat you like family. And just what I was going through at the time, it was, it was a breath of fresh air for me. Okay, I’m going through all this stuff. I want to be here every weekend, right? I want to be here every weekend. So whether Dre knew it or not, I had a plan, like, I’m staying over at his house just for this weekend, right? With the intention to also, I want to go back to all those folks that I’ve been introduced to. It’s fun being there. I love being there.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: You said you were going through it. What exactly were you going through?

Errol Viray: My dad wasn’t in the picture for like, you know, some years, heavy on substance abuse, and then I’m there to try to protect, right? So you got my three sisters, I got my mom. So as you know, feeling like I had that mantle now, as the man of the household, I felt the need to try to protect.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: You were how old at this time?

Errol Viray: How old am I? Like, how old was it? How old were we then, like, 16, 15,16, and so it was tough. You know, the verbal would be physical. Sometimes it would get physical. And so it was just a tough upbringing. And so that’s all I knew. You know, I thought, “Okay, this is normal. So I don’t know if…”

Aliw Garcia Pablo: You thought everyone’s families went through this?

Errol Viray: I thought this is what it was, you know, it’s just it was, like, the norm. It was a norm for me. And so it’s funny, because I had that kind of attitude, you know? So, when I would meet people like, Oh, you’re not what, what’s so different about what I’m going through? You know, you don’t go through that. That’s not a normal thing for you. And so when I got the chance to see his family, his family, and how they operated and the way they treated each other, especially his mom, his dad, more so I saw first and foremost, how that dynamic was supposed to be.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Between a father and a son.

Errol Viray: Correct, correct. I mean, my dad had his moments right? So when he was right, he was right, but when he wasn’t in the right mind state, it was just it was torture. I dreaded, you know, being around him during that time.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: And so what do you remember during that time, Brother Andrey?

Brother Andrey Silva: Yeah, I remember him. I remember Brother Errol having a difficult time, because he would express to me that, you know, sometimes he would say, you know, “Nah, I don’t want to go home yet. Can I just hang out here?” “Well, yeah, stay here as long as you want, you know.” And there were times when he would be home, where, in the middle of the night, he would give me a call, you know, “Pick me up. I’m over here on this corner,” you know, like, “Okay, what’s up?” He said, “Just pick me up.” Okay, I’d go to pick him up. And, you know, his face would be bloodied, you know. And then he would tell me that, you know, he got into it with his dad or whatnot. So I said, okay, just, just come stay with us for a bit. He would stay at the house for a bit until he would get to reset a little bit, you know, or until he found out his dad left, then he could go back.

Because I think, you know, with Errol feeling that he needed to protect his family, you know, having that role, the dad is always gone. So him being the firstborn and the only male, you know, he felt that that responsibility was on him. But then when his father would come back, you know, there would be that conflict, because that’s his dad’s role, and now there’s somebody who’s trying to take his role and and so maybe underlying, you know, subconsciously, there would be that, that struggle there. And so, you know, Errol would get the worse end of it. You know, many times we’d have to go there to try to calm the situation.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: You say, we. Who was with you?

Brother Andrey Silva: You know, there were times when other band mates would come, Larry, right? Our manager would come with me. There were times when my dad would come, you know, and to try to talk to his dad. And those were always pretty effective whenever my dad would talk to his dad, because, for some reason, Errol’s dad had this big respect for my dad, and so he would sit and listen to whatever my dad would say to him, yeah.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: How did that feel for you? You know, you’ve got this friend, right? You’ve got your friend’s dad. You’re not related by blood. How does it feel knowing that they went that extra mile?

Errol Viray: It’s a level of gratitude that you can’t explain, right? It was, I felt safe, you know, them being around and, you know, like Brother Andrey mentioned just having those late calls. “Hey, man, I’m going through it again. Can you come by and get me?” Like it was almost like that safe, safe zone for me. And so when they would come, it was like I said, I was able to reset. And then when they would leave, it was back to it again, you know. So it was kind of tough. But every time they would come in to play or be there, not only myself reset, but even my dad would reset.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Wow.

Errol Viray: Yeah, he would reset. So, you know, maybe a week has passed, everything is good. Following week, back to it again, back to it again. So same, same thing.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Brother Andrey, you mentioned earlier that you wanted to help Errol because you knew that only God could help him. You wanted to help introduce him to the Church because you knew that only God could help him.

Brother Andrey Silva: I know my personality is, if I care about someone, I’m going to help them, and nothing’s going to stop me to help them. And I knew that the only one who could truly help his situation was God. But I also understood that I can’t just throw it at him and say, hey, you know, there’s a process that we gotta go through. So the introduction, you know, first I’m gonna splash some cold water and Brother Errol, get ready for church. We’re going to church. Surprise, you know. But then I know that when he gets there, God’s gonna take care of him. Then, you know, the seed of faith will get planted. God will nurture it, you know, and he’ll use the brethren in that local to also nurture it, until you know that faith grows in him, and that was really my goal for him to have that kind of faith. For him to realize and to know and to come to understand that you know, God is the solution. Trust in Him. Rely on Him, you know. Trust in what He can do for you in your life. And you know, that was the blessing that I was hoping he would receive from God during that time. And so that was, you know, one of my main goals for him to stay at the house was to bring to church.

Errol Viray: Of course, after hearing the lessons, you understand how undeniable it could be once God’s speaking to you know that He’s speaking to you, right? So, I finished the lessons, went through a period of attending, and I don’t know how busy we were yet with travel. It was not, it didn’t get chaotic yet. Yeah, it was about to, it was about to be, yeah, we were on the verge with Kai at that time. And so, you know, finish the lessons. However, the devil works, right? The devil’s constantly working. And with everything that was going on again in my life, I strayed away. So I never finished, didn’t get baptized, and then Kai happened.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: So now you’re on tour?

Errol Viray: Now we’re on tour.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: And now you’re on tour and worship services are happening, and Brother Andrey makes sure that he’s going to the worship services. And what would happen now that you’re on tour? But he stopped. How did that, did it create tension?

Brother Andrey Silva: Absolutely, you know, from what I was, you know, just looking at the whole picture, you know, I wanted to tell Brother Errol, I’m already helping you. I’m already bringing you to what the solution is. Yeah, you know, why are you letting it slip away? You know? And so there was a level of frustration in that. And, you know, us still being young, you know, I was acting on my emotion. You know, we’d be on the road together for a month, and I’d be like, if I saw him, I’d be like, you know, not, not talking to him.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: But how were you guys on stage when you would…

Brother Andrey Silva: But on stage it’s business, you know, doing that thing, and then, and then off the stage, it’s like this again. There’d be that tension, you know, there’d be so much tension. But I would, you know, I would always go to the worship service, and I would always test him and be like, hey, tomorrow morning, yeah, the worship service.” Yeah, that once you come with me, yeah, if I wake up. And so the next morning, I’d wake up and I’m like, he’s not gonna come, yeah? So it was a constant like that.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: But you’d still invite him every time?

Brother Andrey Silva: I would invite him every time.

Errol Viray: Every time.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: And sometimes he’d go?

Brother Andrey Silva: There were times when he would come. And that would make me happy, that would, that would bridge the gap a little bit, you know. But, you know, I was, I was always praying for him during those times I’d go and he wouldn’t come. God, please help him.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: But despite it all, he never gave up on you, and he still took the time to invite you. What was that like for you?

Errol Viray: I mean, it was just I didn’t understand why. Why is he so content? Like, at one point I was like, Man, why does he keep inviting me? I already stopped. And then at that certain point I was like, okay, he really cares, like he cares for me, but it was just amazing to me to know that, and this guy’s still trying to invite me. I think the love that we had, we’re so close. We came into the group and we hit it off, right off the bat, we’re close. So I think, I don’t think that ever changes. The relationship doesn’t change. It’s just the perspective, right of what we disagree on, yeah?

Brother Andrey Silva: Just like any brother and sister.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Siblings, yeah.

Brother Andrey Silva: You know, just because we get into these little rifts, doesn’t mean that we don’t love each other. The reason why I was so persistent was because even when he stopped, the problems continued in his life.

Errol Viray: They got worse.

Brother Andrey Silva: They even got worse. So, I was like, “Oh my gosh, come on.”

Errol Viray: And I would have those moments when he would invite me, when I’d see how persistent he was. You know, having worship service as the forefront of our contract, making sure, hey, he was making it him checking in the night before to find out where the worship service was at, whether it’s driving two or three hours away to check that the night before going, you know, maybe two or three hours after going, that goes back to worship service, and then it comes back and we do a show. Yeah, right. So it was just amazing to me, how persistent. But also it’s like, it always made me think like, so then I’d start thinking like, man, God, are you calling me now? Are you using him as a, you know, a tool to get to me? What is it? So, in the back of my mind, for all those years we were doing this thing, it always stuck right? And not to mention you, you go through those lessons, and you know what it is, you know, you kind of trick yourself into, like, thinking that that’s not, it’s not the truth. But in actuality, it’s like it’s overwhelmingly the truth. You know, there’s no, there’s no, there’s nothing behind it where you can deny it.

Errol Viray: So fast forward, I had gotten back with my high school sweetheart, Sister Leslie, and the second go around …

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Of Bible studies?

Errol Viray: Of Bible studies, we went together. That was actually a tough one too, because …

Brother Andrey Silva: Errol’s already, Brother Errol’s already decided, this is it, I’m going to join the Church. You know, when he first told me, you know, I was like, okay, okay, I’m going to help you. You know, I was just, I didn’t want to show him that. I was too excited. But inside, I was like, Yes, right? But, but, you know, so he got started, and then we were trying to convince Sister Leslie, yeah. I was like, you know, let’s, can you talk to her? Okay, let’s go talk to her. And she was adamant about, no, no, I’m not gonna join your church. I’m not joining that church. And then I was like, I’m not, I’m not saying join the Church. I’m saying come and just listen. See what your husband is trying to get into, you know, see what he’s and she said, Okay, fine, I’ll go, but I’m not going to join the Church, because her family is deeply involved in their church in Hawaii. You know, me and Brother Errol were talking later. We’re like, okay, at least, at least, we’re going to get her in the door. Please. Dear God, do the rest.

Errol Viray: We had a game plan.

Brother Andrey Silva: We had a game plan, yeah.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: So now it’s both of you.

Brother Andrey Silva: So it just so happened that the lesson was pertaining to the Day of Judgment. I said, Ooh, this is a good one for her. Halfway through the lesson, you know, I’m, you know, throughout the whole thing, I’m like glancing at Sister Les. Just see her reaction. At one point, she started crying. And I was in shock. I was like, oh, what does this mean? Like, Is she mad or she … Is she, you know, is she Yeah, understanding? Is God touching her heart? Yeah. And so after, after that Bible study, she told us she decided that she needed to join the Church too.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Wow.

Brother Andrey Silva: I was like, Wow, this … that’s a miracle of God that he performed right in front of us. And so, you know, when you get that feeling of inviting somebody and the teachings that we uphold touch that person that much, like you almost get …

Aliw Garcia Pablo: The first time.

Brother Andrey Silva: The first time you almost get, I don’t want to say addicted, because, you know, but for the lack of a better word, you want to feel that again. So I’m gonna start inviting everyone. And that was what drove me to always invite people to listen to the doctrines of the church, to see what our Lord God did to Sister Leslie. To see what the Lord God did to Brother Errol. That was one of the things that was just so amazing to me, which is one of the reasons why I also started thinking about the ministry. I want to do it full time. Fulfilling. It’s fulfilling.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: So fast forward. So now you and Leslie both joined the Church together. You’re baptized together?

Errol Viray: On our one year anniversary as a married couple.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: When were you baptized?

Errol Viray: San Francisco.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: And who else were you able to bring into the church Brother Errol?

Errol Viray: Ironically, ironically, I actually invited my whole family, yeah. So I felt a responsibility at that point because of what I’ve heard, and just getting baptized, that I need to get my family in.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Was there one particular doctrine that you’re like, that this is it? There’s no I mean, you said, you know, everything.

Errol Viray: I mean, I think it’s just everything, right? You know, like, I said, like, you’re hearing all those lessons, and it’s, it’s undeniable. You go to worship service, you’re listening to it all. But I always go back to, not a particular one, but the book of Job. I remember Brother Andrey like, at certain points, he would always point to that book, and so I’d always refer back to that book and just what he went through, and I go back to what I went through. And so when I got baptized, I felt it my responsibility to invite my family. And so I invited the whole …

Brother Andrey Silva: Clan.

Errol Viray: The whole clan, and so we’re doing the Bible study, they all signed up. Two of my sisters joined. Two of my sisters became members. And then not too far along after that, my dad. He also got baptized.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Wow!

Errol Viray: So he somehow found his way.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Wow.

Errol Viray: Yeah and so …

Brother Andrey Silva: I told you, God was there.

Errol Viray: You did. You did.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Did you ever think, I mean, even with you Brother Andrey having seen what his dad has gone through his whole family. Did you ever think in a million years that his dad would be called as well?

Brother Andrey Silva: You know, when it comes to the wondrous works of our Lord God, you can’t put a limit to it. And so when that happened, I said, God really is and was the solution for this family. And so, you know, and we see that over and over again in different aspects of the brethren’s lives. And so did I ever think he would be baptized in the Church? Probably not, if I based it on my own human standard. But with God, you know, He always does the unexpected. He’s the one who has a plan and, you know, and we can just marvel at all the miraculous works that He does inside the Church.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: You mentioned that seeing Errol, what happened to Errol and Leslie and his family, was really kind of the catalyst of inspiration for you to really join, join in the ministry. Being in Africa, you’ve seen not just, I mean, I think to simply say growth is such an understatement, right? The explosive growth of the Church there and seeing lives changed completely, just like his family’s life,

Brother Andrey Silva: Absolutely.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Does it ever get old for you? As far as being a minister of the gospel, you know, seeing just the spark in their eyes and just seeing lives changed every day?

Brother Andrey Silva: Never gets old. You know, as a minister, as one who has been entrusted a great responsibility in assisting the Church Administration, in taking care of the spiritual welfare of the brethren. You know, as well as you know, being an instrument to call people to the Church. When it comes to the work of God, the work of the Lord inside the Church, that never gets old, especially when you see that God is the One fulfilling that promise. God is fulfilling promises in the lives of people, fulfilling His promise to this work that was started by the Messenger of God in These Last Days. How he upholds the Church and wills it to progress. You know, how can you get tired of that, to and for you to be a part of it, to have some kind of contribution to it? That’s what we ministers live for. That’s what we ministers set our goals to be, you know, to make sure that the Church is strong, the brethren are strong, that the Church continues to grow and to progress and to contribute to the success and victory of the church for the glory of our Lord God.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: How do you think being assigned in Africa for 10 years, how has that changed you as a person and as a minister?

Brother Andrey Silva: Well, it’s opened my eyes to a lot of things. Experience is what will open your eyes and mold you, especially when you’re doing the work of the Lord. You know, you find ways to be creative when it comes to strengthening the faith of the brethren. Just like our beloved Executive Minister taught recently–we have to find ways to strengthen the faith of the brethren, to make sure that they don’t stray off the right path. You want to do more. You want to do more.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Brother Errol, I’m sure you’ve seen all the musical, the music projects that he’s done in Africa, right? Yeah, the music videos, the songs that he’s composed, and you’ve been with him since the beginning, as you’re seeing all of this full circle moment happening, right? Music, music gifts being used in Africa, in a whole different culture.

Errol Viray: I’m not surprised, because we would spend endless hours in Brother Andrey’s room, slash the studio, and I saw the adjustment he made from the music that he was making. And that’s how I kind of knew, like, Okay, this brother. He’s about to be a minister, right? Because…

Aliw Garcia Pablo: You felt it already?

Errol Viray: I felt it already. He’s, he’s making music, and it slowly shifted into, you know, Christian, Christian music.

Brother Andrey Silva: Songs about God.

Errol Viray: Songs about God, you know, and that’s how I kind of knew, so I’m not surprised, because just the passion that he has for music and just the passion that he has to create it. But it’s amazing to see, as you mentioned, to what degree God has used him as that instrument you know, or one of those instruments in using music to get you know, to you know, get to people.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: You know, as you guys are sitting here, you know what? 30 years later, something like that. Is my math right? Yeah, decades it is.

Brother Andrey Silva: Unfortunately, you’re on spot.

Errol Viray: It has been.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: So we’re sitting here 30 plus years later, like I mentioned, Brother Andrey is a District Minister. Brother Errol is a deacon, the family of your own. You both have families now. Your wife is also a strong officer in the Church. What does it say about God’s plans in our lives?

Errol Viray: He never, I mean, you said it, there’s always a plan. Yeah, right, the plan is always going to be fulfilled. And so looking back at all this, I’m just like, I just never thought I’d be where I’m at. God used Brother Andrey as an instrument. What did you say, 30 years ago?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: I think so. I think that’s the math.

Errol Viray: 30 years ago. Yeah. I went through two indoctrinations. I quit after the first one. I came back with the person I love the most. You know, where you’re coming from, a point of like, man, where’s my life going? Yeah, that’s where I started, right? That’s where I was. I was in a dark place, where’s my life going? And then to have Brother Andrey as that instrument to constantly push me, constantly remind me, Hey, man, you heard the words like, what are you waiting for? And then finally getting embraced by God as one of His children. It’s unspeakable. You can’t even explain it. Why? Why did I, why did You bless me and my family and why? Right? So you can’t even explain. It’s tough to explain, but you just feel so blessed at the fact that He embraced you with that and surrounded you with people that would help you get there.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Brother Andrey, what advice would you have for people who may be in the midst of a friendship like yours, right? Someone who’s trying to help another friend, trying to help show them that God is the only solution. The Church is the only solution. What advice would you have for people?

Brother Andrey Silva: Going through the same situation that I and Brother Errol went through? Don’t quit. It’s going to be hard. Expect it. Don’t be surprised if there are difficulties, if there are hindrances. But don’t quit no matter what. Because if you quit, that means you’re lacking faith. You’re lacking trust in God. If you want God to help you, you have to give Him a reason to and so you need to trust in, rely on, believe in what our Lord God can do for you in your life. Just like what Brother Eduardo V. Manalo always teaches us– hold on to the words that you’re being taught by the Church Administration, the guidance that is freely given to you by our Lord God through the Administration, that love that you receive, that love that you’re blessed with. You know the Church Administration is the proof that God loves us in these last days. You know that He placed someone there to watch over our spiritual effort, to guide us. And so when you’re going through those hard times, don’t give up, don’t let go, continue to trust in God, continue to push through. Remember you’re running a race. If you want to win you can’t stop, continue on and uphold your membership in the Church Of Christ.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: You’re both now living a life of service. What is it like to both be on that same path like, you know, I mean, you’re not in the ministry, but you’re an officer, you’re a deacon, right? What kind of life, what kind of fulfillment does a life of service bring?

Errol Viray: It’s funny because we’re, I was just having a family hour with my family. We do it every Sunday, and we always reflect back on kind of how our week is gone and stuff like that. And you know, it’s … we’re at our best when we’re at Church, right, fulfilling our duties, and when we’re not fulfilling the duties, we notice there’s a little bit, you know, it’s if we’re not as active as we should be. Because when you’re not as active, when you’re not as engaged, like you just see that God kind of will, He’ll put you through a little bit of turbulence. And you’re like, okay, okay, I gotta get back on track.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Reminder.

Errol Viray: Reminder, yeah.

Brother Andrey Silva: Wake up calls.

Errol Viray: Wake up calls. And so we get that constantly, and then so, when I, when I do that with my family, it’s okay, Dad, I’m gonna go there. I’m gonna go to Bible study.It’s okay, good. Well, there’s three this week. So, you go to three. But yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s just amazing how God works, man, He’s like, constantly reminding you, and when you’re doing good, He blesses you.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Before we go to the last part of our interview, what would you say about change? You know, a lot of people are afraid of change? Brother Andrey obviously you made the biggest change in your life joining the ministry. Brother Errol, you made the biggest change in your life in joining the Church. What would you say about change, when God is part of that change?

Brother Andrey Silva: Embrace it. Embrace it. If God is part of that change, embrace it, because, again, He has a plan, and realize that the only thing that will never change is change. It’s gonna happen. It’s going to happen in your life, whether you like it or not. Just make sure that God is part of every change, that He’s behind that change by being close to Him. And every change will be a next step up closer to Him. And so, you know, when you look at it that way, you will welcome it, embrace it, and want it. When is God going to change it for me again? And you know, you’ll end up looking forward to it.

Errol Viray: See the difference right? We have friends that aren’t part of the Church, who have families themselves, and you see what they go through, and then … they don’t have any foundation. You know, you could tell God’s not with them, right? Because either they like, for example, mother and father end up separating, and you see that firsthand, and you’re like, you know, with God, you know, being in the Church, you always have that foundation. And so even the worst things, the most impossible things, you could always get past, right? Because you always have that foundation. And so you know me and my family, me and sisters, we always talk about are like, man. Can you imagine what it would be like without God, our family,? Especially the way you are. She only pointed out.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: She said that to you?

Errol Viray: Especially how stubborn you are, right? And I said, No, I mean, I just can’t see my life without God. And then you see all these, you know, the friends and you know, they don’t believe, they don’t have that same amount of faith. And just things fall apart very fast, you know. And so it’s just a blessing to, you know, to have that, you know. And so I always find it my duty to like, share like I gotta share like, every way I gotta share.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: The same way he did with you.

Errol Viray: Yeah, exactly, exactly, and persistent with that. I got like friends who just get annoyed with me. So, bro, thanks for this link. You send this. You sent the same link to me, like, three weeks ago, the same one you sent me. I was like, Oh no, I forgot.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: How come you don’t give up?

Errol Viray: Because I know the gift that I have or that I’ve been given, that I’ve been granted, that my family’s been granted. So why? Why would I not share that? Especially just like Brother Andrey, when you taught me how to love, bro. So like, you know, especially when you love people that much, you have that amount of love, like Brother Andrey mentioned earlier, so you just can’t stop. You have to keep sending it to him.

Brother Andrey Silva: Yeah, because, like, for instance, you know, when I see the change that God did in his life …

Errol Viray: Oh, man.

Brother Andrey Silva: That’s why you keep sharing. Because you can, you always want to see that change in other people, making changes. That’s what we want to see.

Errol Viray: I mean, I’m the testimony. I’m that testimony. Like I just, I just can’t believe I ended up where I’m at. I just can’t believe it happened. How did this happen?

Brother Andrey Silva: It’s all God.

Errol Viray: It’s all God, right? So then you gotta…

Brother Andrey Silva: I told you God will.

Errol Viray: You did, man! Thank you! You did!

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Well, now we’re, you know, you mentioned that Leslie says sometimes, what if, you know? What if God was never a part of your lives, right? And what if Brother Andrey and his dad, Brother Rey, never took the time to…

Errol Viray: You’re not gonna do this. You’re not gonna do this.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: We have Brother Rey on here with us in our studio. So if we can have Brother Rey on, Brother Andrey’s dad, and we’ll close out this conversation. Alright.

Making Changes – Part 3

Aliw Pablo: Thank you for joining the Making Changes podcast.

Bro. Rey: Thank you for having me.

Aliw Pablo: So, Brother Rey, we wanted to have you on at this last part of our conversation with Errol and Brother Andrey, because you mentioned, Errol, that Leslie had said, “What if we had never found God,” right? Sometimes you think about, like, what if Brother Rey and Brother Andrey never took the time from those middle of the night phone calls?

Errol Viray: I just can’t thank them enough. Brother Andrey was one instrument, right? But God used his whole family. And when I was going through my toughest of times… See, I told you you wouldn’t do this to me. It’s happening now. I’m a big softy. Anyhow, I’m just forever grateful. Brother Andrey didn’t have to pick me up at the corner of my street when I was going through what I was going through, but he did. When my dad was doing what he was doing, you know, and I don’t know where to turn, I got his brothers and sisters not even willing to lend a hand to help their brother.

Aliw Pablo: Your own uncles.

Errol: My own uncles. And then I would call Brother Andrey, Brother Rey, within seconds, they would answer, and then they would be there. “Hey, let’s go.” And I remember one time they went to even to that extent to find my dad, where he’s at.

Aliw Pablo: Wow.

Errol Viray: I don’t remember, I don’t know if, you know, Brother Rey remembers, but…

Brother Rey: Well, it’s been a long time. Let me try to remember what happened that time. Well, of course, I knew you first, before your dad, and I know what kind of relationship you have with your dad. And I thought about the way to fix the problem, is to fix the cause, the main root of the problem, which is your dad. And that’s why, I tried to get involved, and think of— how am I going to help to solve this problem? And I did try to make friends with his dad. That’s the first step, I think, the best way to go. And then, I tried to find out what interests him. And, I learned that he’s into music and I play guitar a little bit. So that’s where we, you know, that comes together. And from there, I started helping him, guiding him to the right path.

Aliw Pablo: So, Brother Rey, even though you knew what his dad was doing to him, to his family, you didn’t get mad at him, but instead, you showed compassion.

Brother Rey: Yeah.

Aliw Pablo: And you became—you tried friendship first.

Brother Rey: Exactly, because what’s the use of, you know, getting mad at him? It’s going to make a (bigger) gap (between us). So I (became his friend).

Aliw Pablo: Were you not scared, though, po, Brother Rey? Like, you know, you’ve mentioned that your dad would get violent. You weren’t scared?

Brother Rey: No, because I’m bigger than his dad, for one thing. I can just… [gestures with fist]. So, that’s not a problem.

Aliw Pablo: Okay. But, you know, what you did, Brother Rey, what you did, not a lot of people would do. You’re not related to him. He’s just your son’s friend. I don’t know if a lot of people, a lot of deacons, would do that. But why? You didn’t just do it one time, Brother Rey. You kept… this was an ongoing problem. You answered the call. You picked up the phone every time.

Brother Rey: Yeah. Well, I want to help him, for one, because I know his relationship with Andrey, they are close friends. And that’s my goal, to have his dad and him, Brother Errol, to have a good relationship (with) each other.

Aliw Pablo: Yes. When you would see their relationship, did you ever think, “One day I want that with my dad.”

Errol Viray: You know, well, not even lucky, I was blessed—blessed by God that I had a chance to see what that kind of relationship was supposed to be like. So when I would communicate with my dad, I knew how to guide the conversations, right? And then he would think. So, you know, Brother Rey would be around, just like he said, try to build that friendship, you know. He would circle back to the good dad, you know, when I would see those moments or when Brother Andrey would even have those conversations.

Errol Viray: And so we’re not… we don’t have the perfect father-son relationship, but we have our moments, you know? But I always bring it back to Church with him.

Aliw Pablo: Errol’s dad is currently in the Philippines. One thing that Errol is thankful for is that his dad continues to be a strong member in the Church and on the right path to salvation.

Aliw Pablo: But in all seriousness though, we’re talking about change, right, making changes. Did you ever think that your dad was capable of that change of actually joining the Church?

Errol Viray: No, no. You know, he’s at his best when he’s dialed in with Church. I said it earlier, when he’s dialed in, he’s at his very best. This guy put me through this, and God still showed compassion for him, right, still showed mercy. Like, you know what, I’m going to bring you in. And so it’s just unfathomable, like, how? How did that happen? But, you know, I feel so blessed and I just hope, I hope, and I always pray that nothing will throw him off those tracks. Right? Because, like, we’re far away from each other, right now.

Aliw Pablo: Right, right.

Errol Viray: I’m always praying for him.

Brother Andrey Silva: God is merciful. No matter how deep red your sins were in the past, no matter what you did, if you show a repentant heart and you show to God that you want to return to Him, and that you want to change, you want to make that change, God will tell you, you know, ‘Okay, let’s talk about it.’ You know, ‘Let’s sort this out,’ just like it says in the Holy Scriptures. And so, that is, something that is also, I would say in the life of Brother Errol’s father, you know, it’s another miraculous work. Because, even myself, you know, during that time, I don’t know, he’s going down this path. He’s going to go all the way.

Brother Andrey Silva: But that’s something that all of us should learn. That mercy that God has, for those who are on that path, who, like for instance, his father, you know, he went down that path, but now he’s in the Church, now he’s, you know, things are looking better, there was a change that was made in him. The way that God is merciful, to people like that, we too have to be merciful. We, too, are His instruments to help those people to make that change. Because if you hold a grudge, how are you going to be an instrument of God? And so, we also have to learn from that mercy that God has. We have to imitate it, and we have to have that compassion just the way that God has compassion for all.

Aliw Pablo: How come you never gave up on your friend?

Brother Andrey Silva: I just didn’t want to see him go down the same path. You know, we had this strong relationship with one another. We shared these extraordinary experiences with one another in music. He has this amazing talent, and if I were to give up on him, he would be wasting that talent. He wouldn’t be able to share that with all people. I don’t know if you’ve heard Brother Errol Viray sing.

Aliw Pablo: I think we need a sample.

Brother Andrey Silva: But, you know, during those times, even me and my manager, Larry, we would talk, like, “Man, I hope Errol makes it through, because that talent—everyone needs to hear what he’s doing with his voice. And if he falls off, he’s not going to be able to share it.”

Aliw Pablo: Did you know that?

Errol Viray: Yeah, yeah. There’s so many times during the journey that I thought I was going to quit

Aliw Pablo: Quit life? Quit the band? Quit…

Errol Viray: Yeah. All of it.

Brother Andrey Silva: We had many talks where I told him, “You can’t. You can’t do it. You can’t quit. Keep going, keep going.”

Aliw Pablo: I see you getting emotional, Errol. What’s behind the tears?

Errol Viray: I’m just—I’m just thankful. It was a long road. And so…

Brother Andrey Silva: It could have easily (gone) bad for him.

Aliw Pablo: Yeah.

Brother Andrey Silva: It’s like, it was so unstable during that time. And everyone who cared about him, me and my family, my dad, you know, the guys that I used to sing with, we were struggling to try to keep Errol balanced so that he wouldn’t fall. There were times that, you know, we would talk to one another not knowing what to do.

Brother Andrey Silva: Errol doesn’t know that, because we didn’t always share that information with him, that we would all meet just to talk about Errol. But Errol was, you know, just like any family unit, Errol is our brother. We can’t leave him by the wayside, you know, not just because he’s this amazing singer or whatnot, but because he’s our family.

Brother Andrey Silva: And that translates into how we are inside the Church—love of the brotherhood. We don’t leave each other on the wayside. You see your brother in need, you help them. You see your sister in need, you do what you can. Why? Because that’s the doctrine. That’s what we’re taught by the Church Administration—by God. And so, even at an early time in our band, and seeing how Errol’s life was going, you know, that was always something that I knew we practiced in the Church—the love of the brotherhood—at all cost, you protect it.

Aliw Pablo: Even though he wasn’t your brother in the faith then.

Brother Andrey Silva: He wasn’t even, yeah. Not yet. Not yet. But, you know, God is the one who looked out for him, and we were just instruments to do that.

Aliw Pablo: When you see each other now and where you all are in your lives, Brother Rey, did you ever think that that kid that you used to pick up in the corner of Alvarado Boulevard, would one day become a deacon?

Brother Rey: Every time I saw Brother Errol, I was so glad, so happy. The rough time you went through, now look at you. You raised a good family, good kids, a deacon. Yeah.

Brother Andrey Silva: Yeah. I mean, I’m proud of him, you know? I’m proud that he was able to rise above all of it.

Errol: I didn’t think I’d make it there, but I’m glad I did.

Brother Andrey Silva: Me too, man. Make sure you stay there, okay. [laughs]

Errol: I already told you, if you come …

Brother Andrey Silva: Alright. We’re going to be in the tribuna one day together, brother.

Aliw Pablo: Won’t that be something.

Aliw Pablo: I’m gonna go (to) Brother Andrey. See, he’s wiping his tears. What are the tears for, Brother Andrey?

Brother Andrey Silva: Tears of joy! You know, tears of joy. Like I mentioned earlier, as a minister, you know, we want to see this happen in the lives of the brethren. What more to someone who I’m so close to, you know, and to actually be a part of that project that God did to change him. I mean, my goodness, you know. I’ve got to go find more people with problems and do it all over again!

Aliw Pablo: You’ve got to bring your dad.

Brother Andrey Silva: Dad, we’ve got a mission.

Errol: Yeah. I mean, I just can’t… there’s not much more gratitude that I could have for, first and foremost, God using every instrument that He did, you know, meeting Brother Andrey and Brother Rey, and then just ending up where I’m at at this point in my life. And now, just guiding my family and my children into the next stages of their life. And so, thank you. Thank you.

Brother Andrey Silva: Always here for you.

Brother Rey: I can see you as a future head deacon.

Brother Andrey Silva: You know what that’s called, Brother Errol? God’s call.

Aliw Pablo: Well, we just want to thank you first, both of you. Brother Andrey, thank you for flying all the way out here.

Brother Andrey Silva: Thank you for having me.

Aliw Pablo: We’re so thankful to the Church Administration for allowing you to be on the podcast and to share your story.

And to Brother Errol, for sharing a story that I don’t think a lot of people know about you. I mean, we’re in the same local congregation and up until researching for this podcast, I had no idea what you had gone through.

And, thank you, Brother Rey, for being the father-figure that you are and that you were for Brother Errol and still is to this day.

And we really hope that this podcast will not only be an inspiration, but something that will get all of us, everyone who watches, to say, “Let’s take that extra step to show mercy,” like you said, “to show care for someone who’s quietly struggling.” Because you just never know, right? You just never know what God has in store and the plans that He has for them.

Thank you.

Aliw Pablo: We hope this story of this lifelong friendship inspires you to reach out to a friend, to a friend looking for a change in their life, and looking to God to be the solution for their challenges in life. If you found value in what you heard today, share this with a friend, and anyone you know who could use this story.

For more Making Changes podcasts, log on to incmedia.org or find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening, and may your change uplift you.

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Growing Up Coda: A Year Of Change

[Chatter]

[ Show opens]

Sister Aliw Pablo: Alright, ok we’re all ready?

Sister Aliw Pablo: Hello Brother Ronnie, Brother Rowell, it’s been a while since we’ve seen you last.

VO: Believe it or not, it’s been a year since we published the very first episode of the CODA series, where we first met Brother Rowel and Brother Ronnie David both CODAs or children of Deaf Adults and ministers of the gospel in the Church Of Christ.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Ka Ronnie, do you want to sit up a little bit?

[laughter]

VO: So much has happened with the David family since we last talked. So we thought it would be worthwhile to catch up. And because September is Deaf Awareness Month, what better time than now.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Hello, Brother Ronnie, Brother Rowel, it’s been a while since we’ve seen you last.

Brother Rowel David: Hello, Sister Aliw.

Brother Ronnie David: Hello, Sister Aliw. How are you?

Sister Aliw Pablo: We’re good. How are you doing? How are you both?

Brother Rowel David: Well, doing well, doing well.

Brother Ronnie David: Doing great

Sister Aliw Pablo: We just wanted to check in with you both and see how things are and just the impact and the feedback you’ve gotten from the CODA series,

Sister Aliw Pablo: Would you say that there are people that you may have known for a long time, and after seeing your stories and hearing your stories, were there things that they were surprised to learn?

Brother Ronnie David: I’ve had a lot of brethren who from my past local assignments, they texted me, they called me and they said, “I didn’t even know. I had no idea.” Because the thing is, we don’t put this out there. It’s not something that, “hey, hello, my name is Ronnie and my parents are deaf.” For them, one thing that got me was they said, “I see why you did the things The way you did. I see why.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Your story, you know, the CODA series was—is really a family story. And I am so curious to know have parents come up to you? Have kids come up to you? As far as helping bridge that cultural divide, generational gap, whatever gap happens as we grow older?

Brother Rowel David: You know, some are coming up and asking, you know, “what, do you think we shouldn’t do if, you know, this is the situation. You know, my child is going through this, do you think you can help them with this and that?” And so, I feel like because of that video, because of that series, it’s opened up a lot of doors. It’s actually opened, like, in the sense of parents, now seeing things in a different way as well. Because now they’re seeing things that you know, hey, this could be affecting my child, or me not doing this could be hindering them in this way.

Sister Aliw Pablo: One thing too, as far as opening up conversations, I’m curious as far as faith sharing, how has the feedback been from brethren who do have friends who are hearing-impaired and and how have they shared the content with them?

Brother Ronnie David: You know, it’s funny, because I feel like some brethren never thought about inviting a deaf person to a Bible study. They never thought about inviting a deaf person to listen to the words of God. But that’s an option. And that’s definitely happened to us sharing faith now. And it’s brought an—it’s gotten to the point where, even for those of the local I was assigned in, we were having a Bible study, we had about maybe eight or nine deaf there, so brethren are joining and they asked me so you know, Ka Ronnie we actually know some deaf my neighborhood, in my area. Can you do a Bible study over here? And I said, Sure. Exactly what it is. Because you know what? People feel more confident enough to invite people who are deaf now because they see that they have the opportunity also to hear God’s words. It’s even in the sense of learning sign language as well. Because through the CODA series now they’ve seen the other apps and the other, you know, videos that the Church Administration has produced. And now it’s branching out into the—you know, we—I’ve had some brethren come up and say, “yeah, I changed my major to communication,” you know, “to be able to help, you know, to learn more sign language as well.” And so it’s really, it’s impacted a lot of people in so many ways.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Well, praise God, praise God. And we hope that the wonderful thing about the CODA series and the story of your family is that it’s timeless, you know. That this can be watched five, ten years from now, and the stories and life lessons in your families can resonate for generations to come. But I should also point out, you’re all together today. I know that people may think you’re in the same place now, but why do you happen to be together and were able to do this interview and you’re in the same room?

Brother Ronnie David: That’s true. We’re actually we’re blessed today to have a special gathering that was approved by the Church Administration for the ministers and not just the four districts that are here but all over the East Coast. So it was also a blessing for us in another way, which my brother and I were able to see each other.

Sister Aliw Pablo: So it’s been a year and one of the things I never got to ask you both of this, but you know, our Part Three, there were some really profound intimate moments with your parents that you were able to say that you both have said you’ve never said before. And I know that for a lot of our viewers who watched it, that ending for Part Three is what got them. It just tore them up. It just—they just said, “I didn’t expect that at the end. Why didn’t you tell me? I should have had a box of tissues.” And I could tell from the reaction of your parents that they too were really shocked and moved by what you were able to tell them. So I was curious to know after that interview, what did they say to you? Brother Rowel you were in the same room with them. But what was it like after that interview?

Brother Rowel David:

I’ll say you know… that my parents are people of few words, I’ll say it like that. even though they—my— especially my mother, she can sign away forever. But after the interview, it was more—you know, of course, deaf culture—more on action. We Just went up and hugged. Hugged, and then of course when my mom came up and hugged me, my dad came up, and it was just hugging for a good couple of minutes, saying I love you, this and that.

Sister Aliw Pablo: No words needed.

Brother Rowel Pablo: No. None at all. It was a good moment. It was a good moment.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Brother Ronnie, you obviously weren’t in the same room. But what were the conversations like after that interview, but also after they actually watched it? And watched the whole thing put together?

Brother Ronnie David: It’s like my brother said, it was.. it wasn’t only words. You know, my mother called her favorite son and I answered. She just told me she loved me so much. Because you—(laughs) you know what, for her, her and my dad, we don’t talk about our life to each other. We just live life with each other. So for us to confront it and view it and look back, I think that kind of opened all of our eyes. So she told me, she is thankful that we’re all together. And that we’re a family that was blessed to be together by God.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Brother Ronnie can you repeat what you just said? “You don’t do life together…”

Brother Ronnie David: It’s like we, we never talked about our life together. We Just live life together. And it was probably the first time that we actually looked at each other—our faces, talked to each other and actually had a chance to look back and say, wow, this has been our life the whole time, and imagine the blessing it was to actually relive it with each other. And to see wow, you know, all those things we went through, whether happy, sad, good or bad, it was a blessing in the end because look at where we are now. And I think that’s where all the love came from and the fact that we really took a moment to say I love you to each other in a different way than we ever had before.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Being able to have that time and that moment to be able to do that and to look back a year later, if you can share with us what’s happened in the last year,

Brother Ronnie David: So, maybe a couple of months afterwards, just to go ahead and put it out there, I don’t know why but very suddenly our father passed away. And that was very tough. That was tough. Especially because we just had this opportunity to really open up to each other for the first time ever. I’m 32, my brother’s 30. And for how many decades that we lived life together, right, and for the first time ever we opened up to each other. And then one of us is gone. So like that definitely was… the sadness, the sorrow that was definitely there. And it’s not going to be something that still comes to mind and our hearts. We won’t stop thinking about it. But that’s the biggest trial we’ve experienced since we had done the CODA series.

VO: With no warning, their beloved dad, Brother Ramon David, suddenly passed away in mid April of this year.

VO: It was here that Brother Ronnie recounted their last moments with his dad. Their parents were in New York, visiting Brother Ronnie and his wife and had just finished attending worship service in a local congregation where Brother Ronnie was assigned to preach. It was on their way home when Brother Ramon suddenly fell ill and later passed away.

Brother Ronnie David: …the last thing I think about is, thank you, dad, for that last lesson. You teach a man how to finish his race. That’s exactly what we’re going to do. Because I hope that’s the way I finish my race, too. I’ll be on duty. I’ll still be genuine, genuine faith and love to the Lord God and live my life for God. That’s exactly what I want. So even though it was tough, it was—it was so sad at the moment at the time until now. I mean days later, weeks later, years later, for sure, we’re still going to feel like this, but at the same time, we’ll never forget that. He never had to say anything. He just lived his life to the end and he told us to really finish our race.

Sister Aliw Pablo: I remember Brother Rowel we were texting, I think it was just the day after your dad had passed away and I remember that your text was… the first thing you said is, “God is so good, because I got to see him just a few weeks ago and he got to see my brother. And I remember thinking at that moment that you both had, have had such a tough childhood, just struggle after struggle. But the fact that your mind, your heart automatically goes to the good with even the most painful situation, that that’s the first thing you think about a day after your dad had passed is such a testament to what your parents have taught you both. You know because that’s not something you learn overnight, you know, to be able to do that, to to be able to train your brain to go to where—to find a positive and everything, that is a lifestyle. That is a lifestyle. And the fact that you both said that your father still taught you a lesson even the day that he had passed away—Sister Rose had actually sent me a picture—you know sister Rose and I were texting days after that, she had sent me a picture and it said and I don’t remember Brother Ronnie you can confirm, but it seem—sounded like your parents were with you, you had a Bible study with some deaf students? Was it that same week? So was that the same trip?

Brother Ronnie David: That was the exact same trip actually. Can you imagine the day before that we had a Bible study? And for some brethren they thought it was kind of late, it was at 9pm but we were there at chapel going over God’s words, going over the lessons. It’s amazing. All the deaf had so many questions and the beauty of it was that my parents were there. They were able to witness, they were able to mingle a little bit. And it was so nice seeing my dad talking to them, asking, “What do you think? What did you think about it?” And you never hear him say stuff like that. I’m sure the CODA series plays a big part in that because he is like wow, this is something that needs to get out. So maybe he felt the urge to do my part or that’s what he thought about it, and it was great. It was great to see. We had about I want to say almost ten, ten deaf visitors and you know what, almost all of them are Bible students actually, currently right now.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Wow.

Sister Aliw Pablo: We saw that at the funeral of your father, there were some beautiful flowers there from the Executive Minister. Tell us a little bit about that.

Brother Ronnie David: You know, it was so overwhelming to get the kind of support we had. On an emotional level it was amazing to see so many brethren reach out. Brethren that talked to us like we were family.

Brother Rowel David: There were so many people that came out, from all over, we didn’t even expect them to come through. Just to show that they’re family..and actually there were even those that we didn’t even know, but because of the CODA series they came out to support.

Brother Ronnie David: And probably one of the best things ever is to know that God is comforting us. Once you make that corner and we turn in, and you see all these flowers right there, right beside where my father was flowers from the Executive Minister, and it’s like such a great reminder that Ka Eduardo does think about all of us. Doesn’t matter how many people join the Church, how many members there are. So many, he is still thinking about all of us. And that’s why when I saw that, I said, you know, this is what it’s all about. The Church really is united. People say what they want but the Church really is united. And you can see how our Executive Minister, it’s amazing what he can do. That out of his time, out of his busy schedule and all that he still made time and showed love to us. That’s just another, like, everlasting reminder that God will take care of us.

Brother Rowel David: our Executive Minister, he does this for the entire Church. And yet still, he can reach out, and he can show that love. It meant, it meant the world to us to know that he’s, he’s taking his time to make sure, to let us know that he’s there helping us, that he’s there supporting us. It really did mean the world.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Witnessing your mom firsthand go through something so painful, losing the love of her life, what are the lessons that you’ve learned, continue to learn from your mom today? And how to deal with loss but also what true love really looks like and feels like?

Brother Rowel David: I remember when she left New York, she flew into Georgia with Ka Rose. And I was blessed to be able to be there and pick them up from the airport. And when we were driving, we stopped over to grab something to eat. And I turned around and I looked at her and I said, “Are you okay?” And she said, “I miss dad.” And I told her, I said—because I know her—and I said, “Mom, it’s okay for you to cry.” And she said, she looked at me, she goes, “No.” She said, “People tell me I have to be strong, I have to be strong.” And I get that, you know. And I’ll say that that’s one thing that I took from that is that, yes, we do have to be strong. But of course, when it’s just us. I told her I said, “Yeah, that’s fine.” I said, “In front of everybody else you can be strong.” But I told her I said, “Right now it’s okay for you to cry,” and she just, she let it out.

But even then, like I said, she was showing us— and it’s what we preach as well, we know that—and our Executive Minister has said it before: to die as a member of the Church Of Christ is such a great blessing. It is. I mean you know we talked about, just like what Brother Ronnie said earlier, we’re going to experience sorrows. We’re going to experience pain because we’re still here on earth. You know. Dad doesn’t have to go through that anymore. Dad doesn’t have to experience that anymore. The next time that he’s going to open his eyes, the Bible says he’s going to be in heaven. He died as a member of the Church Of Christ. It’s a blessing. And so we preach that, you know, yes, be strong. But that’s something that I took is that, man, even though she’s going through that heartbreak, she’s still upholding what we preach in the worship service, that you’ve got to be strong. And that’s, you know, that’s, again, she really leads by example. She leads by example.

Brother Ronnie David: Especially the day after it happened. No one got much sleep that night. And the thing about it is, I know it must have been a shock for her. It must have been so surreal that this happened. Then, I remember she was saying, “Okay, look you need to be strong now,” which—those were very nice words to come from a parent, especially when something tragic happens. But those words, I play in my head when I need it. She was crying when she said it. She was hugging my arm when she said it. I really think about it now when I need it. Those moments where I do feel sad about it. So that’s one thing we’re definitely getting from her that she doesn’t have to say it, she just shows it. And regardless of what’s going to happen, she will be strong. She does that by showing us that she’ll continue serving God, performing her duties, and fulfilling what she’s always been doing, being a good number inside the Church.

Sister Aliw Pablo: With your mom, what, like you mentioned earlier, that she’s always just moving and doing and serving. How do you think her being activeness and continuing to do her duties in their Church that is helping her in her healing and her grieving at this time?

Brother Rowel David: Most definitely, I would say that it’s helping her remaining active in her duties inside the Church. We’re seeing her, she is—and she recognizes it as well, that she turns to that for comfort. She does. And you know, we’re so thankful, of course, to our Almighty God and to the Church Administration for having all of these different activities going on back to back to back. We’re thankful because it gives her the opportunity to involve herself in those things. She’s able to stay busy doing those things, doing the things that she loves, and then it keeps her mind away from thinking about those moments of being sad. Because of course, just again, the human in us, we’re going to be sad for years to come. But the fact that she can be able to make herself busy in those things that she loves, which is her services in the Church, it really does do her well. It does her well.

Sister Aliw Pablo: How about for the both of you just on a personal note how tough it must have been to do the first worship service preach the first worship service after losing your father? And guiding brethren to be strong during the midst of challenges and experiencing it yourself in the middle of your own pain and in your own grief? How were you able to—were you able to stand up in front of your congregations and do the same?

Brother Ronnie David: Personally, and this is from the both of us because both of us admitted it to each other. I mean, we don’t have decades of experience inside the ministry. At the end of the day we’re still our parents’ children, and for us to still perform our duty, like we were talking about, still lead in the worship service, those are moments too, where you feel like how am I gonna do this? How am I supposed to do this? I mean, I know my head’s not in the right place, my hearts all over the place. How am I supposed to lead in the worship service? And you remember your mom and she is grabbing on your arm crying, “You have to be strong, you have to be strong.” You know what, it really makes you… I don’t want to say that you need someone to pass away to lose a loved one to feel closer to God. I don’t want to say that’s necessary but I want to put it out there, is that those moments actually are such a positive because it makes you—it really does make you feel closer to God. It really does. And [the Bible] says, it reminds you this life isn’t perfect. This life isn’t everything to us. What we’re supposed to do in this life is what we’re about to preach right now in this worship service, which is we’re supposed to let everybody know, remind everyone that this is what we need to do right now in order for us to get right here, which is our salvation. So, to tell you the truth, the worship service, you feel more deeper, you feel more entwined with the lesson. You definitely feel the emotion, but of course, you keep your composure. But at the same time it’s almost like you understand life a little bit better now. We have a better way of saying it right?

Brother Rowel David: Yeah, I know in the first worship service that I officiated after it happened, that was one of the applications that we used in that worship service, which was for the parents. The only time that you have to teach your children is now because there will be a time that you won’t be there anymore. But you want to make sure that your children are okay. For the children, it’s important that you listen. That you listen to what they’re teaching—and you notice what they do, so that you can be able to follow that example. Because just like what he said, what we always preach, you have to do now in order to be able to get to where we want to be, which is that eternal life that is salvation.

Sister Aliw Pablo: And how is your mom doing? How is Sister Raquel doing?

Brother Ronnie David: You know, Sister Aliw, it’s like you’re asking us a question that you already know the answer to. I’m only saying that because what she’s doing now is this—don’t be surprised—she’s going to worship service, she’s going to Bible studies, she’s going to the general cleaning of the place of worship that they have, she’s going to all the functions, and the activities and then she ends her day by texting us what she did at Church today.

Brother Rowel David: There was one day she called me on FaceTime and she says randomly, she says she had just come from a general cleaning. And she said, “See, even though I’m by myself, I’m still going to do what God wants because that’s what God wants us to do.” And I told her I said, “That’s good.” I said, “I’m glad, I’m proud.” Because she hasn’t stopped. She won’t stop.

Brother Ronnie Pablo: You know if I could add to it. But we won’t make her sound like she’s not human, alright? She definitely does have her moments. She texted us the other day, “It’s me and your father’s anniversary today.” And obviously there’s this type of feeling that she has and the feeling that we have about it, and we try to keep our heads up, we try to keep our chin up, try to focus on the good, focus on the positive and focus on the happiness and the love. But there are moments where she texts me, it really breaks my heart. Few words you know, just simple words like “Cry. I’m sad.” You know what, it’s amazing because she texts me this, obviously it breaks my heart. I’m sure she sent the same to my brother, it breaks his heart, and we both feel sad at the moment. But there’s a very spiritual aspect about this that really came to light, is that, I mean we’re supposed to feel sad. And we’re supposed to feel sorrow, sadness and all that. We’re supposed to, it’s biblical. Because the only time that stops is like what it says in Revelation is 20:1-4; the only time there’s no more sorrow, the only time there’s no more pain, and the only time that God will wipe away our eyes is when we get to heaven. And I remind myself that—that’s what this has all been about. So we got to go to heaven. We have to make it to heaven. This really isn’t our true home, is it?

Sister Aliw Pablo: Despite the hurt and the pain of losing your dad, but knowing that a few months before that, you were able to say what you did to him—things you weren’t ever able to say at all growing up—what does that say about the importance of saying what we need to say to people we love?

Brother Ronnie David: You know it’s so tough because yeah, you wish we could have been saying this our whole lives. We wish we could have been open like this to each other. And some people may say it’s unfortunate that it was only then that we said it. But like I said earlier, like what we believe: we just said what we were already doing. It was nothing new to us. It was just nice to be able to look at each other and reflect on it. But being able to express your love for your loved ones, I mean, obviously, we take it so much more seriously now than we have ever had before. I mean yeah, there were times where we do a whole day’s work. We do office work, we do Bible studies, chapel, we go to worship service. It just takes a few minutes or a few seconds just to know with a text. Text mom, “I love you.” We don’t need to start a conversation. I just want you to know, how are you doing? Did you get some sleep? Are you drinking water, you know. And you know what? One of the things that really hit us both is it really made us have a realization. Because for some people they may say, you know, it really was unfortunate that just now that you guys are really admitting this to each other But the way I look at it is, it was actually really hard at first—and this is us being completely human right now—it was really hard at first because we couldn’t take it. It’s very harsh on us because it’s our dad. We just had this CODA series. Because even for us we’re thinking the same thing, like why did we just now just say something, like why didn’t we just now open up to each other? And then you know what? The hard thing is like when we pass, we start thinking the most human feelings ever like, “Why, God why? Why now? Why did it have to happen now?” And then you remember, us God-fearing people, God never makes mistakes. He never makes mistakes. And for some people that hurts. That hurts to think that. So my parents had to die or my loved one had to go. God never makes mistakes, it’s true. And You know what else, God has our best interest at heart. God really loves us. God cares for us. And when we really think about it, there’s a reason why it happened. It is all part of God’s guidance and at the end of the day you start realizing you know what, I need to trust God because know what, God never makes mistakes. There’s a reason why it had to happen.

VO: “God never makes mistakes.”– He’s right, it’s a lesson I’ve had to learn over and over again, as well. But it’s also a lesson that’s hard to learn if you’re only focusing on the challenges you’ve had to face. So Brother Ronnie reveals a special blessing their family was given, as well.

Brother Ronnie David: And if I can go ahead and mention it, I was, I mean I want my brother to mention it—but just for me on my part my father passed away in April, my nephew was born in May. And it means so much because… and I would text my brother—me and my brother, just to let you know we don’t even text like that. I know he’s busy doing his duty, he’s busy fulfilling his ministry, I’m over here doing my ministry. We don’t text each other. We don’t feel the need because we know love will always be the same. But I remember texting him, you know, I’m just glad that at least we have someone come in when dad leaves. Because God loves us. He doesn’t want us to hurt that long. He doesn’t want us to go through that much pain. He is going to give us a little bit of comfort too. He is going to take care of us emotionally. That’s when—that’s when my brother—

Brother Rowel David: Just you know that’s… that text message he’s talking about is something that I hold on to, something that I tell other people about all the time you know, dad passed away, a few weeks later, Timothy comes into the picture. And a lot of people they—you always have those people that say, oh, it’s sad that he wasn’t able to meet his lolo. It’s sad that he wasn’t able to meet his grandfather. But what I always say, I always go back to that text message, it’s that—”but it’s okay.” You know, yes. You know. And I’ll put this in as well. God is so good because right before our dad passed, we were together. I was able to be with him because of, you know, different worship services. I was able to go visit him. And then a few weeks later or two weeks later, he’s able to be with Ronnie. And so, he was able to see both of us. He was able to be with his family until the end. And that’s what we’re thankful for. That’s what we’re grateful for is that even after the CODA series, he knows how we feel, we were able to talk about it. And then he’s able to be with us multiple, you know—and again, we don’t see each other all the time. And yet we were able to be together because of God’s plan and God’s graces, and He let my dad go at the end of that. He was able to experience it. And then yes, a few weeks later, you know, we’re still hurting, we’re still grieving. Until now we still are. But it’s just like what he said, God sees that and God comforts as well. I think his—what his text message was was, “Timothy came at a perfect moment, the time when we needed him the most and we’re able to find that love again.” And yeah, I, you know, I hold—I’ve never told him that. This is us again, expressing ourselves in front of the camera, in front of you, and not to each other.

Brother Ronnie David: We should do this more often.

Sister Aliw Pablo: I think this is a pattern here.

Brother Rowel David: But yeah, no, I’ve never told him that, but I hold on to that text message so much, because it’s so true. I was having that conversation with my wife just a couple of weeks ago and I told her I said Timothy couldn’t have come at a better moment. Because it really was at a moment where we really did need him. And at this point, we’re able to be together and he was able to meet his uncle.

Sister Aliw Pablo: So, you met him for the first time on this trip? So that was yesterday, right, because you just saw each other yesterday? Can you tell us, because I just get a kick out of his name, what is your son’s name, Brother Rowel?

Brother Rowel David: Timothy King David.

Sister Aliw Pablo: That’s so cool.

VO: And while the deep pain and grief of losing their dad is still there, the presence of joy of the newest addition to their family cannot be denied.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Brother Rowel, now that you’re a dad, what lessons are you going to pass on to your son that Brother Ramon had left with you?

Brother Rowel David: You know it’s great because I mean, first and foremost, of course, all of the things that my dad did for us, I want to be able to do for him. Because I—and you know, our Executive Minister reminds us as ministers all the time—that we have to be able to lead by example. That’s exactly what you know my dad did for us. It’s funny because now that I do have Timothy, I find myself waking up earlier. And I’m the one that does this and does that, puts this into the van, and does this and does that. And I think about it and I’m like, my dad used to do that. And I’m doing it because I saw him do it. He took care of us without us knowing. Just did it. And I, for sure, that is something that I want to be able to show, you know, yes teach of course, but teach it by showing him that this is what you do. For—you know, especially as you know, I want to say I want to be able to teach him how to be a man in the sense that we take care of our family of course first and foremost, I’m going to teach him, you know, that just like your granddad, you will have to continue to put God first. You know, that was something that our dad always did—us living two hours away from the chapel, he would always wake up early. You know those cold mornings when you have to make sure that the car is heated up—

Sister Aliw Pablo: The East Coast with snow and everything.

Brother Rowel David: You would wake up early and he would make sure that the car is clear that he would turn on the car so it would heat up, and this and that and. So that we could be able to leave on time. Or has it my mom, we always left three hours before the time we have to leave, he would do it. And it’s because we’re talking about God here. God is always first and that’s something that I wanted to teach. And that’s something that we took from our parents that one hour isn’t enough to be early.

Sister Aliw Pablo: September is Deaf Awareness Month and having heard the feedback from listeners from viewers and also having lived as CODAs, what would you like for people to know about the community?

Brother Ronnie David: You’re looking at the community right here. I think, you know, they can really benefit from this. You know, there are people, they want to share their faith. So just putting out effort to try to communicate or even trying to learn a little sign language here or there, it really helps out. And even if you meet someone who is CODA, you know, they’re talking and they’re chatting to their parents while you’re sitting and all that, even showing you know a little sign language there is a great impact because for people who are CODA like myself and my brother, I mean, just seeing other people who give effort to want to be able to speak to our parents, that means a lot in itself, too. So the fact that it’s going to come out in September or we’re going to be able to show people this is in September, it’d be really nice if everyone gave some type of effort towards it. There’s a lot more deaf people around than people think. Not that they are trying to hide. They don’t say much. But go and put the effort in to try to say something to them if you do see them.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Now that the Church is, you know, we have CSD (Christian Society for the Deaf), we have the app, we have a website, to know that your father left when he did. He went from, right, the 95th anniversary where there was nobody and he was just floored to see one person, Sister Rose, signing. And to know that he had finished his race at a time when he saw, when he could see the progress of the Church when it comes to the deaf community, how does that make you feel as his sons?

Brother Rowel David: I’d say for lack of a better word, happy, because you know, you saying it just brought back, just brought back a lot of memories. The fact that our dad was so happy to see one person signing. We don’t, we don’t get that a lot from our, from our dad. We don’t. And then to know that he was able to see how it is now, it—you just know that he was happy and that made—I’m trying to say it for both of us.

Brother Ronnie David: I mean, it also makes us happy to know that they’re not the only deaf inside the Church because throughout the years, you know, she sees an interpreter then you find out okay, she has parents who are deaf, they eventually became members. I remember thinking about the time that my parents both took oath as deacon and deaconess looking back at it is like wow, that really was something because they’re signing back the oathtaking to my cousin who was interpreting for them during the oathtaking.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Let’s go back to your mom. How is she as a grandmother, Brother Rowel? How is his sister Raquel as a lola, as a grandmother?

Brother Rowel David: She’s happy. She’s happy. She’s one of the first things she said was that she knows that dad would have been happy and dad was excited to see Tim. And I guess for me, of course, I would love for Timothy to have met my dad. But just to know that he was excited. My mom was telling me that apparently he was telling everyone in their local area about Timothy, how he was excited to see his first grandson, this and that. And that’s all she would say in the beginning. You know, of course she’s not close to us right now in the distance but she’s always asking for that picture and that photo of the baby, you know. She is always asking just to be able to see him. She’s happy. She’s happy.

Sister Aliw Pablo: And lastly, to wrap up our interview, brothers. Thank you again for taking the time. We know you have a long drive back for both of you but just to close our interview, Can we get—can we meet little Timothy King David?

Brother Rowel David: Yes, of course.

Sister Aliw Pablo: And his global debut?

Brother Rowel David: He was here earlier before and then he was sleeping and then we took him off, and he woke up. And we were like, oh, he knew, he knew he was gonna be on camera.

Sister Aliw Pablo: He’s like, “let me be camera ready”. Oh, I see his hair. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.

Brother Rowel David: This is Timothy King David.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Hi, Brother Timothy King David! Can we zoom in on him? What’s the best part of being a dad Brother Rowel?

Brother Rowel David: You know, after a week and a half being with him, someone asked me that. And I really thought about it for a second and having Timothy has been the closest feeling I’ve had to the Ministry. The feeling I get in the Ministry, you can’t compare it to anything. It’s a different feeling that God gives you when you’re helping in the holy Ministry. And I think after those late nights, you know having you know having to take care of Timothy and everything, closest thing I could feel. the closest to that fulfillment feeling, you get it whenever you’re taking care of him. Yeah.

Sister Aliw Pablo: And your heart just melts no matter how tired you are.

Brother Rowel David: Always. Always.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Always.

Brother Rowel David: Crying, and in the moment you get the bottle to him and he stops and just looks at you? Enough.

Sister Aliw Pablo: So at what age would you start teaching him sign language?

Brother Rowel David: You know, we’ve actually already started looking into it. And we’re wanting to go ahead and start.

Sister Aliw Pablo: He’s like, you’re too loud, dad, you’re too loud.

Brother Rowel David: Yeah, no, we’re looking—we’re already starting to look into it and I’m thinking I think around six months is when we’d actually start trying to implement. But for sure, we want to be able to teach him sign language and honestly my mom is already trying.

Sister Aliw Pablo: To teach him.

Brother Rowel David: Already trying.

Sister Aliw Pablo: I bet he’ll be a fast learner. He’ll be your interpreter when he is older as you‘re preaching, Brother Rowel.

Brother Ronnie David: It’s in the blood, po, he’s doing it right now. There you go.

Sister Aliw Pablo: He is doing “I love you”? Aw, look at that stretch.

VO: And there’s no better way to end this episode than to see the hope and love a child brings to a family. Timothy may not have met his grandfather but we hope one day, this CODA series will help him know who his grandfather was and the legacy of faith he left behind.

Special thanks to Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel for taking time out of their busy schedule to sit down with us and of course, to Sis Rose Guillermo, Timothy’s other grandmother for doing the ASL translation.

If you haven’t seen the CODA series, log on to incmedia.org, or on the INC Media app or anywhere you get your podcasts, to listen or watch the 3-part series.

On behalf of the Making Changes team, thanks for listening and may your change uplift you.

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In this first episode of our "Thank You Series," we hear about a friendship that has lasted over 30 years. Brother Eric Waterman surprises Brother Bob Pellien to thank him for the impact and change he’s had in his life. It’s a heartfelt conversation between two ministers of the gospel whose lives are connected by their duty and love for God.

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Conflict of Beliefs

Felix: Me and my mom, we would have arguments, you know, like, whoa, why did you join this church and then my dad…He told me straight up to my face, like, I don’t want to join your religion, put that in your head. And you know that every time at the worship services, it’s always giving me signs of me, wanting them to invite them…that’s, that’s what I’m trying to do is just trying to be more positive.

Robert: Well, that’s the right attitude to be positive. Because, you know, I’ll tell you, right now, Felix, I’m still the only member of my family that’s a member of the Church.

(audio fades out)

Aliw Garcia Pablo: From INC Media Audio, this is Making Changes, a podcast about the changes we go through and the life lessons we learn along the way…always with God by our side. I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo.

Aliw: Today’s episode is about making big life changes – big enough that it affects your relationship with your family. Meet Felix, a listener who we met on Instagram.

Felix: My question, Robert, was…like how would you still be able to talk to them—even if—when they still denied your invitations?

Aliw: He recently found the truth in the Church Of Christ but is having challenges in his relationships with his family.

Robert:…you have to be able to create this balance when you’re with them, right?

Robert: Felix, you’re not alone. There are stories like this, all throughout the church in every country. It’s a problem that a lot of members deal with. And it makes them stronger.

Aliw: Felix will be talking to Robert who joined the Church Of Christ over 20 years ago, who also experienced his own set of challenges with his family but have now found peace with them.

Let’s listen in.

Robert: Hey, Felix, how are you?

Felix: I’m doing good, Robert. How about you?

Robert: Oh, well, it’s good. It’s always good to be able to meet and talk to, you know, other members, even though you’re across the country? You know, we’re all so tightly knit.

Felix: Yeah, so basically, my questions were, you know, now that I’m a member of the Church, you know, even though when I was going through Bible studies, I was always, I was still facing persecution. Basically, it was last year where most of the time of 2021, it was very, very heartbreaking because of being persecuted by my own, even by my own loved ones. So my question is to you, you know, being persecuted at home, how did you still continue to communicate with your family?

Robert: Well, it’s—how long have you been in the Church, Felix?

Felix: I’ve been in the Church for seven months?

Robert: Seven months? Well, that’s, it’s a wonderful blessing. You know, persecution is a hard word. It’s a tough word. Because often, it comes from a place where people think that it’s, it’s coming from a place of being mean, right? And a lot of times what it is, it’s just confusion or lack of understanding, you know, about what’s going on. And then, you know, of course, when they don’t understand and it comes across, in a way that you know, you might be feeling is like persecution. And I’ll just share a little bit about, you know, my background, right? I’m the only member in my family, that’s a member of the Church. I was baptized back in 1989.

Aliw: This is when Robert opens up to Felix about his past. Robert begins to share how being raised Catholic, being an altar boy and doing all the rituals, suddenly didn’t feel right for him. As a young adult, he began church hopping from the Baptist church, then Pentecostal, then explored Evangelical Christianity, then became a born again Christian.

Robert: But you know, as most people find out, there was just a lot of ad libbing that was going on. And it wasn’t really as scripturally-based than what I was needing in my life. So I finally found the Church Of Christ, you know, and I was introduced to it and went through all the Bible studies, and I asked a ton of questions to the Minister that was giving me my Bible studies. And a lot of it is because I’d spent the last—at the time, I was only 24—24 years of my life in one religion. And when you spend that much time, and you’ve accumulated that much experience in history in that one religion, you’re going to have a lot of questions. So I asked a lot of questions. And really, everything that was given back to me came straight from the Bible, it was exactly what I was looking for. Then, you know, they didn’t try to interpret anything they didn’t try to, you know, cover everything up as a mystery. It was exactly from the Scripture.

So when I obviously became a member coming from a family that was devout Catholics, it wasn’t something that was looked upon very favorably. Right? Leaving the church. And when that happened, a lot of what you’re probably describing as persecution was happening to me. They didn’t understand, you know, why I would leave the religion that I was in for 24 years at the time. It was hard for them to understand why this transition, and all of the different things were changing about me, you know. I was living a different life, so we didn’t celebrate a lot of the holidays that the Catholics would celebrate, right? So, I wouldn’t be involved in those and I think that that’s where some of that comes from, right? Because they just they don’t understand,

And a lot of people are afraid of things that they don’t understand. And that’s what turns into what we perceive to be persecution.

And what I found is that through that whole point, there was a point where almost up to two years, we didn’t talk. For two years. That’s a long time.

Felix: You and your family?

Robert: Yeah. And I lived in New York, they lived in California, And the one thing that I did is I just never gave up trying to show that, you know, that I’m still reaching out that I still want to communicate, that, you know, because I’m in this religion, now, it doesn’t mean that I don’t love you. That you know, your family, you know, you’re still my family.

Aliw: Two years. Robert spent two whole years reaching out to his family and getting very little in return. I heard shock… and maybe even fear, in Felix’s voice. As if he’s picturing what might happen to him. But then, Robert tells Felix when his family finally reached back out to him.

Robert: And it took just never stopping and reaching out in what finally turned the table is when my mom got really sick. And they, you know, my brothers and sisters reached out to me, because, you know, at that point, we didn’t know what’s going to happen. And, you know, thank God, she was okay, she recovered. But that really is what sort of started the communication over again.

It’s just, it’s difficult, but they’re gonna say things that may not sit well with you. And you just have to remember that it’s not—they’re your family, they love you. And all of that they’re just coming from a place of not understanding and not knowing, so they might say things that hurt, but just you know, remember you’re still going to continue to love them

Felix: I’ll be honest with you because, I’m trying not to remember all the negative things that they said about me because, trust me, it was really hard.

Robert: I know.

Felix: Like I said, I’m just trying to stay strong and continue on putting them in my prayers. Because when I was at home, every day, me and my little brothers, we would just look at each other, we wouldn’t talk. Me and my mom, we would have arguments, you know, like, whoa, why did you join this church and then my dad after, when he came back to El Salvador…He told me straight up to my face, like, I don’t want to join your religion, put that in your head. And you know that every time at the worship services, it’s always giving me signs of me, wanting them to invite them, but when the chance is there to invite them I feel everything, you know, falls apart. So you know, that’s, that’s what I’m trying to do is just trying to be more positive.

Robert: Well, that’s the right attitude to be positive. Because, you know, I’ll tell you, right now, Felix, I’m still the only member of my family that’s a member of the Church. This is 32 years, right? And, but I will tell you that when we first started, I was much like, in the same situation where they didn’t want to hear anything about the Church, and it’s because they didn’t understand.

You know, you have all these feelings, like you’re, you’re doubting yourself, like, you know, why is this happening now? And, you know, why are they so angry? And why is it that they can’t understand. And that takes time, right? You have to know how to create a balance, right? Because you want to spend time with them. But you don’t want the time that you spend with them to always be awkward, right? So if I know I’m going to spend the afternoon with you, and if I know that the minute I walk in the door, the first thing I’m going to talk about is how they need to leave their church and join my church, that’s going to create kind of an awkward space, right? So you, you have to kind of create this balance where they know that when you’re there, you’re still present, you’re still Felix. I’m still your son, I’m still your brother. And then when the opportunities come up, when you start to see opportunities, and God’s gonna show you when those opportunities come up. That’s when you can talk about, you know, hey, you know, we’ve got this activity. It’s an activity that you know, that they’d enjoy, you know, something, something that’s maybe less formal, because it took almost two and a half years, I think, before, I was actually able to get my mom to come to a Bible study, which finally came, and then when she comes to visit us when we were living in Atlanta, and even here, she joins us in the worship service. Because now we’re at a point where she respects my faith, because it’s the faith that’s raising her grandchildren.

So she respects it. And the rest, I leave up to God, because now you know, as members of the Church, our job is just to invite, right? We’re not the ones that are going to convert anybody, all we can do is introduce them. And if we introduce them to the Church, and we pray, it’s God who’s going to call them.

Aliw: As Felix listened, there was one thing that he needed help in dealing with that frankly, is a challenge for everyone….rejection.

Felix: My next question Robert was, how would you still be able to talk to them, even if, when they still denied your invitations or talked down on you?

Robert: Well, when you’re inviting them to come to a Bible study or join worship service, or you know, to come and listen, and you’re noticing that that’s a point of tension, right? Because then all of a sudden, the conversation doesn’t go quite the way that you wanted it to. You have to be able to create this balance when you’re with them, right? Because when you’re with them, and you want to spend time with them, be present. And, you know, provided that the gathering isn’t like a celebration or something that you know is against the doctrines, you can be there and be present, you don’t have to, to always be trying to get them to come to an activity or listen to the Bible study all the time, because that’s where a lot of the tension comes from.

The thing that really made the biggest difference was when they started to see how my life changed. Because I was a member of the Church. My outlook on life was a lot more positive, you know, it was a lot more optimistic. I, you know, didn’t cuss, I didn’t do a lot of the things that I used to do when I was younger, and they started to slowly see that change. And that’s really where I think they started to understand that, you know, being a member of the Church, even though they didn’t understand the doctrines or hear anything, yet. They knew it was good for me. It was a good influence. And it was even more so after we had our first child and my mom and my relatives saw how they were being raised in the Church. Respectful, industrious. They were, you know, always willing to help, it doesn’t have to be you always trying to, you know, I need you to come to Bible study tonight, I need you to come to Bible study. And, try to do that. So that way they can at least see that being a member of the Church was actually a good influence. And it’s affected your life in a positive way.

Felix: I remember telling my mom that every time I’m at the Church, I’m always happy.

But when I’m at home, I’m not happy. Because I told her that at the Church, I always see love all the time. I would go to work. And then if there’s an evangelical mission or worship service, I would always go, you know, I would always, I would always come back home with a smile. But then every single day, I was in a very bad mental state because there was no love in the house, you know what I mean? So, my question is, how can you bring that love that you have at Church at your house? You know what I’m trying to say?

Robert: Yeah, you know, what, you’re already doing it, Felix. When you go home, you go home, with a smile on your face. And, you feel—if I’m guessing, you feel like, you know, when you leave the evangelical missions, is that your life has purpose, and that no matter what you’re going through, you know that there’s a solution, right, you know, that God has your back, no matter what. And when you go home, you’re bringing that love and that feeling already that optimism and the positivity, what you have to try to avoid is, you know, engaging in, you know, discussions that if you know that when you start to talk about it, it starts to escalate, right, and things start to get heated, you have to try to avoid that. Because when emotions once emotions get involved, especially when it comes to religion, it’s sometimes difficult to dial it back down.

Felix: Yeah.

Robert: And you sometimes have to remember, you know, how humble our Lord Jesus Christ was. Imagine that, right? With everything he was able to do, how humble he was.

And, you know, redirect them if you can, because you can’t forcibly change how someone feels sometimes, as much as you want to. You sometimes just have to wait and pray. Because God can do things that you and I could never imagine would have happened. Yeah. Right. You have to believe that if you pray hard enough, and you really pour your heart out in your prayers. And you show God how much you really want this, that you just continue to just, you know, be who you are.

Felix: Yeah, that’s, that’s one thing I’ve always been reminded of at the worship service is to renew our lives and to live the way He wants us to live.

Robert: Yeah, I mean, you have to really be just so, you know, so many years after my baptism, but I realized, like, how I lived my life before I was baptized, and then how God out of the millions of people chose me.

Felix: Yeah.

Robert: Gave me this chance, right. It’s like, the ultimate job that you’ve always wanted, that you didn’t know you could interview for. And, you know, all of a sudden, here you are in the Church. And you and I recalled, you know, when we were in our early 20s, against all odds, right? Because our families weren’t supporting it. They’re not supportive of it. But yet, we’re here. And, you know, we made the choice, because it’s the right choice and we never have any regrets. Never have any doubts, and just keep living your life, the way that God means for you to live it.

Felix: Yeah, exactly. And that’s, it’s like, when I hear it’s like, it’s always refreshing, you know, I love to hear that.

Aliw: Then, Felix brings up the topic that’s been the most difficult for many new members of the Church to deal with… with their families – the annual holidays.

Felix: And when it comes to like, with holidays, such as Christmas, I think it was last year, I told the one of the brethren like, Hey, is it okay if I can, night guard at the at the church because I don’t want to, be I don’t want to be at the house celebrating Christmas with my family, because I might be, I might be tempted or you know, because usually, it’s always drinking or partying to like, three in the morning, right?

I ended up going back home, but spending time alone in my room while the others were celebrating and doing those things downstairs.

Robert: I’ve been there. I’ve been there, Felix, I, you know, it’s when you’re when you’re the only member in your family, it’s hard. It is. It’s not easy. It’s a test. It’s a test of your faith because you’re surrounded by that, right?

And it’s a tough thing for them to understand. But eventually they will, that it’s got nothing to do with you not wanting to be a part of the family. But they have to respect and that’s all, you know, it’s gonna get to a point where you’re not asking to convert them, you’re not wanting them to become members, necessarily, but you want them to at least respect your faith. The same way that you respect theirs. But you want them to respect your faith and respect the choices that you make as a result of it.

Felix: I’ve been through so much last year with persecution, I know, we have to face more, all of us, we all face it. You know, the person who faced it even more was our Lord Jesus Christ, you know, he, even he’s been, he’s been hated by almost the whole world. So we have to face it, too. But you know…

Robert: And imagine the choices He had to make…He made some difficult choices. And the choices we make pale in comparison to that. But you know it to us our choices, and our persecutions, and our trials are just, you know, there’s something we have to deal with.

And right now is a very difficult time when you’re a new member. But just don’t give up. You know, just be patient, keep praying, and, you know, God’s gonna be the one to call them. You have to believe that.

When you’re inviting people for missionary work, everybody has a number. And what I mean by that is that sometimes people have to be invited five times, sometimes they need to be invited three times, sometimes they have to be invited 100 times. We don’t know what that number is. The only thing that we can do is keep inviting. Because imagine if that person’s number was 100 and you stopped at 99, because you said I don’t want to do this anymore. I don’t want to invite them anymore. But their number was 100. And you were only one number away, one invitation away from getting them to come and listen.

But you know, just don’t be so hard on yourself. You’re doing, you’re doing exactly what you need to do, which is just to invite and when you invite and if they say no, what you should be feeling is good that you still had that love for them to want to invite them. It’s when you don’t want to invite them anymore and you’re like, nah, nevermind, that’s when you should start worrying.

Felix: Okay, yeah, yes. That’s what I that’s what I feel because every time I invite my dad—with my dad, I either watch INC posts on the on the app or invite him to the Evangelical Mission or it can either be an excuse or he doesn’t want to but you know, like I said—

Robert: There’s so much content INC Media. I always dig through the libraries to find something that I know is going to mean something to them.

It doesn’t always have to be about trying to convert them or trying to get them into a Bible study. You just want them to become familiar, because remember, the way that you feel that they’re treating you it’s just because they don’t know. And our job is to educate them, and to let them know what the Church is all about.

Felix: Thank you so much, Robert, for, you know, being in this podcast with me, you know, like I say, you know, even though, I just met you just now, I feel like, I can say if I’m in the future, I can go back and be like, Okay, now, I’m a very strong man, with a very strong faith as well.

Robert: It was great meeting you, Felix.

Aliw Pablo: So Felix, how does it feel to be able to hear from someone who has been in your shoes?

Felix: Makes me feel like, you know, I’m not the only one out there, you know, so I’m really happy that he shared what he’s been through. And the advice that he gave me.

Robert: 100% Felix, you’re not alone. You are not alone. There are stories like this, the stories about people like you and I, all throughout the Church, in every country. So, believe me, this is not just a me problem. It’s a problem that a lot of members deal with. And it makes them stronger.

Aliw Pablo: And, Robert, if there was one piece of advice that you could say was the ultimate game changer, that you could really see the change in your family in the way they started to treat you, speak with you, when you invited them or when you even talked about religion, what would it be?

Robert: Just one: it’s when they realized that my being a member of the Church of Christ didn’t mean that I didn’t love them anymore, that I didn’t still count them as my family.

And it was that love that I have. That makes me want to continue trying to invite them. And I needed them to see that. It took time for them to finally realize that, you know, I’m still Robert, I still love you. You’re my mom, you’re my brothers, you’re my sisters. But this is my life in the Church, and I want you to be a part of it. And I’m not going to stop inviting you.

Aliw Pablo: Do you think it’s possible to to stay true to your spiritual identity and still be able to, you know, still maintain really strong family connections? Is it possible?

Robert: It’s, it’s possible. And it’s not something that is very easy in the beginning. But because your spiritual identity is something that when you’re a new member of the Church, you’re still trying to form, you’re still developing it, right? And your identity builds. The longer you are in the Church, the more active you are in the Church. You know, you stay active, you attend the Bible studies, you listen intently in the worship services. And you consume as much education as you can, you know, and that’s how you start to really build and reinforce that spiritual identity. But you’ve got to be able to create that balance that says—But when I’m with my family, and we’re making connections—You’re not prohibited from doing that. Just because you’re a member of the Church Of Christ doesn’t mean that you all of a sudden have to cut all ties with your family. Because that’s not what God wants. Right? He wants us to be the reason that your family is attracted to the church because they say, wow, look at the difference it made.

Felix: And we still love them no matter what. My prayer is just to love more because like I said, even in the scriptures, it says, you know, even your own loved ones would even hate you. But you know, all we got to do is just love them. Pray for them. So, like you said, so you know, we’re members, and I’m still your son, I’m still your brother and I will always love you no matter what.

Robert: Yes. And don’t—you know, in your mind, no matter what’s going on in the moment, just make sure that that’s what’s sitting in your mind, is that you know, ‘Mom, I’m talking to you, we are having a tough conversation, but I love you.’ And sometimes it’s a hard thing to say. But you know, you want them to know that that’s how you feel.

Aliw Pablo: Thank you both. Thank you both for a really enlightening conversation. And thank you for sharing your heart and the life lessons, Robert. And Felix, we hope that what you heard from Robert today is going to help you in your own spiritual journey.

Felix: That’s what I’m trying to do is just be more positive. You know, just keep inviting them if you never know when God will call them to the church. So you know, it really helped me out.

Robert: It was a really, really great meeting. You know, I feel like I’m meeting myself 30 years ago, 20 years ago, maybe just 20 years ago. I don’t want to be that old.

Felix: I feel like when I’m his age, I’ll be in his shoes, giving the same advice to someone who is in my shoes, at my age.

Aliw Pablo: That’s right. And it’s the gift that keeps on giving. Thank you both so much. Thank you so much. And we know that just from this one conversation, you’re going to help so many people who are going through the same things you’re going through Felix who may be quietly struggling, and we hope that this conversation has given them hope, has given them inspiration…to just keep loving, keep trying and to just never giving up. So thank you both so much.

Robert: It was great meeting you, Felix. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Aliw, for having us.

Aliw: Special Thanks to Felix and Robert for taking the time to share their journeys and life lessons with us. Now, if you know someone who may be going through what Felix is going through, please share this episode with them to give them courage and find peace during what could be the best change in their life but also a very difficult transition in their lives.

For more inspiring content or to learn more about the Iglesia Ni Cristo Church of Christ, log on to incmedia.org or download the INC Media app.

Thanks for listening. And may your change uplift you.

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Cómo mantenerse positivo frente a la negatividad hoy

Hermano Juan Fisher: Hola queridos amigos, están viendo El Mensaje.

[gráfico en pantalla]

Hno. Juan Fisher

Ministro de Evangelio

El año 2020 está siendo debatido por expertos en varios campos si este fue el peor año debido a la avalancha de calamidades, dificultades, disturbios civiles, discordias entre países y diversos problemas. También son pesimistas sobre lo que sucederá a continuación, ya que consideran el efecto duradero que la pandemia puede causar en el futuro, lo que indica que nos enfrentaremos a días más oscuros por delante. Tal pesimismo sobre el futuro alimenta el miedo y la ansiedad entre muchas personas.Ahora, dos años después, todavía nos rodea una tormenta de pesimismo, pero ¿debemos ser pesimistas? No, hermanos. ¡Por supuesto que no!

¿Cuál es la explicación bíblica de todos estos eventos catastróficos que están sucediendo alrededor del mundo? En Isaías 24:5-6, 3-4 (Dios Habla Hoy) también:

La tierra ha sido profanada por sus habitantes, porque han dejado de cumplir las leyes, han desobedecido los mandatos, han violado la alianza eterna. Por eso, una maldición ha acabado con la tierra, y sus habitantes sufren el castigo. Por eso, los habitantes de la tierra han disminuido, y queda poca gente. La tierra será totalmente arrasada, totalmente saqueada. Porque esto es lo que ha dicho el Señor. La tierra se seca y se marchita, el mundo entero se reseca, se marchita, y el cielo y la tierra se llenan de tristeza.

Isaías 24:5-6, 3-4 Dios Habla Hoy

Hno. Juan: El Señor Dios ha dicho que la tierra sufrirá y se debilitará, se marchitará y quedará arrasada y saqueada. ¿No es cierto que esto es lo que podemos observar? ¿Queridos amigos, cuál es la razón por la que esto será experimentado por el mundo? “La tierra ha sido profanada por sus habitantes.” Lo que es más aterrador es que la condición que experimentó el mundo en el año pasado puede ser un presagio de cosas peores por venir. Pero, ¿hay todavía esperanza para el hombre de no perderse para siempre? Hay esperanza, queridos amigos. El Señor Dios mismo ha dicho a los hombres qué deben hacer para que Él regrese a ellos y mejore sus vidas. En Malaquías 3:7 (Dios Habla Hoy), escuchen por favor:

Ustedes se han apartado de mis preceptos, como se apartaron sus antepasados, y no han querido obedecerlos. Yo, el Señor todopoderoso, les digo: ¡Vuélvanse a mí, y yo me volveré a ustedes! Pero ustedes dicen: “¿Por qué hemos de volvernos a ti?”

Malaquías 3:7 Dios Habla Hoy

Hno. Juan: El Señor Dios tiene una invitación para todas las personas. Se fijaron Él dijo: “Vuélvanse a mí.” Aunque la gente se ha burlado de Sus leyes y no las ha guardado, Él les da esta ventana de oportunidad para que regresen a Él y Su promesa también es cierta: “Me volveré a ustedes.”

¿Cómo uno podrá volver al Señor Dios para que Dios también vuelva a Él? Uno debe cumplir el plan de Dios que llevará al hombre a la prosperidad y no al desastre. Leamos Jeremías 29:11 (Dios Habla Hoy), escuchen por favor:

Yo sé los planes que tengo para ustedes, planes para su bienestar y no para su mal, a fin de darles un futuro lleno de esperanza. Yo, el Señor, lo afirmo.

Jeremías 29:11 Dios Habla Hoy

Hno. Juan: Los planes del Señor Dios son para el bien del hombre y no para el mal, planes para su bienestar, paz, esperanza y un futuro brillante. Por lo tanto, cuando se trata de la forma de vida de uno, especialmente en sus servicios que rendimos al Señor Dios, debe estar de acuerdo con Su plan. Aunque puedan afirmar que nunca dejaron al Señor Dios, sostienen las buenas obras y el servicio a Él, si no está de acuerdo con el plan de Dios, no los llevará a un futuro brillante sino al desastre y la destrucción. Si uno puede ser capaz de cumplir el plan de Dios, no hay ninguna razón para que uno sea pesimista. Uno tendrá la esperanza por las cosas buenas que el Señor Dios tiene reservadas para él. ¿Cuál es el plan del Señor Dios que debe cumplir, y eso es para recibir un futuro próspero y bendito? Eso es lo que vamos a discutir después de este breve descanso.

[gráfico de verso]

El justo será siempre recordado; ciertamente nunca fracasará.

Salmos 112:6 NVI

Hno. Juan: Hola queridos amigos, gracias por acompañarnos aquí en este programa, El Mensaje. La avalancha de desastres en 2020 hizo que la gente fuera pesimista sobre lo que sucederá en el futuro. En la primera parte de nuestro estudio aprendimos que, aunque estamos rodeados de terribles eventos que pueden causar gran temor sobre lo que está por venir, todavía hay esperanza de un futuro brillante. Hay una razón para que uno sea optimista en medio de la negatividad. ¿Cómo se puede lograr eso? Uno debe volver al Señor Dios a través de cumplir el plan de Dios que nos llevará a Su futuro brillante prometido.

De la misma manera que se está cumpliendo Su profecía de que este mundo solo empeorará y terminará en ruina, también Su promesa de un futuro bendito para aquellos que cumplan Su buen plan.

¿Cuál es el plan del Señor Dios que debe cumplirse para recibir un futuro próspero y bendito? Efesios 1:9 (New International Reader’s Version traducido al español), escuchen por favor:

nos mostró el misterio de su plan. Estaba de acuerdo con lo que él quería hacer. Era lo que había planeado a través de Cristo.

Efesios 1:9 New International Reader’s Version (traducido al español)

Hno. Juan: El Apóstol Pablo aclaró que el Señor Dios es quien tiene un plan. Esto fue planeado por Él a través del Señor Jesucristo. ¿Cuál es el plan del Señor Dios a través de nuestro Señor Jesucristo? Leamos el siguiente versículo, Efesios 1:10 (La Biblia de Las Américas), así nos enseña las Sagradas Escrituras:

con miras a una buena administración en el cumplimiento de los tiempos, es decir, de reunir todas las cosas en Cristo, tanto las que están en los cielos, como las que están en la tierra. En él

Efesios 1:10 La Biblia de Las Américas

Por lo tanto, el plan de Dios es que todos sean reunidos en el Señor Jesucristo. ¿Cómo se reunirán las personas en Cristo? Aquí en 1 Corintios 12:27, 12 (Weymouth New Testament traducido al español) también:

En cuanto a vosotros, sois el cuerpo de Cristo, e individualmente sois miembros de él;

Porque así como el cuerpo humano es uno y tiene muchas partes, y todas sus partes, por muchas que sean, constituyen un solo cuerpo; así es con la iglesia de Cristo.

1 Corintios 12:27, 12 Weymouth New Testament (traducido al español)

El Apóstol Pablo aquí se dirige a los verdaderos cristianos de Corinto, aquellos que son capaces de cumplir el plan de Dios de que todos sean reunidos en el Señor Jesucristo. ¿Cómo pudieron ser reunidos en el Señor Jesucristo? Él dijo: “En cuanto a vosotros, sois el cuerpo de Cristo, e individualmente sois miembros de él.”

Por lo tanto, las personas deben ser miembros del cuerpo de Cristo. ¿Qué enseñó el Apóstol Pablo acerca del cuerpo de Cristo? “Porque así como el cuerpo humano es uno y tiene muchas partes, y todas sus partes, por muchas que sean, constituyen un solo cuerpo.” Aunque hay muchos miembros, se los considera como un solo cuerpo: el cuerpo de Cristo. ¿Cuál es el nombre del cuerpo de Cristo? Él dijo: “Así es con la Iglesia de Cristo.”

El amor de Dios por las personas y Su deseo de que las personas tengan un futuro brillante es tan grande, queridos amigos. No hay discriminación aquí. Todos tienen la oportunidad de tener un futuro brillante, la única condición es cumplir el plan de Dios: que las personas se conviertan en miembros de la Iglesia De Cristo.

Para que este plan se lleve a cabo, el Señor Jesucristo enfatizó la importancia de ser uno con Él en virtud de convertirse en miembro de la Iglesia De Cristo. Esto es lo que dijo en Juan 10:7, 9 (Revised English Bible traducido al español). Escuchemos, por favor:

Entonces Jesús habló de nuevo: “En toda verdad os digo: Yo soy la puerta de las ovejas.”…Yo soy la puerta; cualquiera que entre al rebaño por mí, será salvo…

Juan 10:7, 9 Revised English Bible traducido al español

Es un requisito que la gente debe entrar al rebaño o redil a través del Señor Jesucristo como la puerta. ¿Cuál es la gran bendición en cumplir este mando del Señor? La salvación prometida. ¿Cuál es el rebaño donde la gente debe entrar a través de Cristo como la puerta? Leamos en Hechos 20:28 (Traducción de Lamsa):

Por tanto, tengan cuidado de ustedes mismos, y de todo el rebaño sobre el cual los ha puesto el espíritu santo como supervisores para apacentar la iglesia de Cristo, la cual Él compró con su sangre.

Hechos 20:28 Traducción de George Lamsa

Hno. Juan: La membresía en la Iglesia De Cristo, entonces, es el primer paso para satisfacer la intención del Señor Dios, porque la mera membresía no es suficiente. Los miembros son instruidos a cumplir algo para que el Señor Dios permanezca en ellos. 1 Pedro 1:15 (Dios Habla Hoy); escuchen, por favor:

Al contrario, vivan de una manera completamente santa, porque Dios, que los llamó, es santo;

1 Pedro 1:15

Dios Habla Hoy

Hno. Juan: Por lo tanto, a los miembros de la Iglesia De Cristo se les manda que en su conducta diaria y forma de vida, mantengan la santidad. El Señor Dios espera que no retrocedan ni se ajusten a los bajos deseos de la gente de este mundo. Ninguna cosa material, prestigio, fama y semejante en este mundo podrá igualar la salvación prometida. Entonces, aunque los estándares morales de este mundo maligno se están deteriorando, tanto más es obligatorio que vivamos en rectitud porque esto nos llevará a la salvación. Aunque todavía estemos viviendo en este mundo problemático y lleno de caos y dificultades, el Señor Dios hizo una promesa a Su pueblo para que no teman ni sean pesimistas. Job 11:14-18 (La Biblia De Las Américas) expresa este deseo del Señor Dios:

si en tu mano hay iniquidad y la alejas de ti y no permites que la maldad more en tus tiendas, entonces, ciertamente levantarás tu rostro sin mancha, estarás firme y no temerás. Porque olvidarás tu aflicción, como aguas que han pasado la recordarás. Tu vida será más radiante que el mediodía, y hasta la oscuridad será como la mañana. Entonces confiarás, porque hay esperanza, mirarás alrededor y te acostarás seguro.

Job 11:14-18 La Biblia De Las Américas

Hno. Juan: Aquellos que apartan el mal y la iniquidad de su hogar, pueden caminar firmemente hacia el Señor Dios sin temor. Ellos olvidarán su miseria. Todo quedará en el pasado. Estarán seguros y se sentirán confiados porque hay esperanza de que el Señor Dios bendecirá su existencia diaria en este mundo.

[segmento de video]

Narradora: Las luchas diarias en Haití han impactado un área de mayor preocupación: la educación de los niños. Los informes muestran que

“Más de la mitad del país vive con menos de $2 al día, por lo que es muy difícil para las familias ahorrar suficiente dinero para enviar a sus hijos a la escuela.”

Narradora: Pero para el fundador de una escuela, su nueva esperanza lo inspiraría a compartirla con las familias de su aldea y su escuela. Solo uno de los numerosos lugares a lo largo de Haití que forma parte del crecimiento de algo mayor en sus vidas.

Exempt Jean Charles: Hay muchos padres que tienen dificultades de pagar para sus hijos, por eso no todos pueden pagar para la escuela primaria o una educación formal a una edad temprana.

Narradora: Exempt Jean Charles, anteriormente un predicador protestante en la Escuela Bautista Bethesda. La escuela que fundó para familias con niños en el remoto pueblo de montaña de Découvert. Esto se hizo para ayudar a proporcionar la educación que tanto necesitan las familias que sufren debido a las dificultades económicas que continúan en Haití.

Exempt: (en criollo) La escuela actualmente tiene 155 alumnos. La colegiatura para que ellos vayan a la escuela es 350 gourdes haitianos [equivalente a $3.50 USD].

Narradora: Continuando con las luchas que enfrentaba su escuela, conocería a otro maestro llamado Dieunel Joseph. Y en su conversación sobre educación, surgió otro tema que cambiaría la creencia de Exempt sobre la fe que defendía como protestante.

Exempt: Aprendí acerca de la Iglesia De Cristo del Hermano Dieunel Joseph. Lo que me hizo ser miembro de la Iglesia De Cristo es escuchar todas las enseñanzas fundamentales que se sostienen en la Iglesia. Anteriormente, me enseñaron muchas cosas en mi antigua religión.

Pero luego, descubrí que fue un error seguir esas cosas. Entonces decidí continuar y ahora

Soy un miembro de la Iglesia De Cristo.

Narradora: Esa decisión llevó a que más personas en Découvert aprendieran el verdadero evangelio y agregaran una nueva congregación local. Pero incluso mientras se desempeñaba como diácono principal y cambiaba el nombre de su escuela para reflejar su nueva fe, las dificultades para la educación de sus alumnos aún persistían. Hasta que llegó oportunamente la ayuda a través del proyecto Cuidado de la Humanidad que encabezada por la Fundación Félix Y. Manalo: una donación que dará a todos sus alumnos un año de escolaridad sin costo de matrícula.

Tereze Doizon: (en criollo)Damos las gracias por la ayuda que recibimos porque nos ayudará mucho. Antes no podíamos hacer uniformes para nuestros hijos y pagar su educación. Ahora con la ayuda que recibimos de la Iglesia, nuestros niños ahora podrán asistir a clases.

Hermano Camy Agustin: Cuando ayudamos a nuestros prójimos, a nuestros compatriotas, nos ayuda a difundir más la buena noticia.

Narradora: Y este fue solo uno de los muchos eventos que la Iglesia De Cristo realizó para atender a las necesidades de algunas de las comunidades de Haití. Durante un período de 5 días, los ministros del evangelio viajaron a diferentes lugares para proporcionar paquetes de alimentos a través de los eventos de Cuidado de la Humanidad, al mismo tiempo que brindaban la oportunidad de compartir el verdadero evangelio a través de las misiones evangélicas dirigidas por el Ministro Supervisor, el Hermano Esteban Inocencio. Jr. en el Distrito Eclesiástico del Caribe, no sólo proveyendo para las necesidades materiales de la gente, sino más importante, sus necesidades espirituales.

Hermano Christian De Leon: (in inglés) Es la voluntad de Dios que Él quiere que todas las personas se salven, pero deben llegar al conocimiento de la verdad. Seguimos uniéndonos con nuestro Ministro Ejecutivo para enseñar las palabras de Dios en todos los lugares, en todo el mundo, particularmente aquí en el Distrito o en el Caribe.

Narradora: Con muchos llegando a conocer y aceptar la verdadera fe, también se llevaron a cabo bautismos en lugares como Kachon, Découvert y Petit-Goave. Ese crecimiento resultó en el establecimiento de más grupos de servicio de adoración en Les Palms y Kachon, atendiendo las necesidades espirituales de la creciente familia de la Iglesia De Cristo en Haití.

Hermano Esteban Inocencio: (en inglés) El crecimiento de la Iglesia es imparable. Ha sido profetizado en la Biblia que cuando Dios obra, nadie puede detener esta obra. Y esto es ciertamente una clara manifestación de la obra de Dios. Estamos en las mismas montañas de Haití.

Narradora: Y con el crecimiento de la verdadera fe, más y más personas en Haití tienen la oportunidad de recibir la mayor ayuda que puedan tener en sus vidas.

Hno. Esteban: (en inglés) Favorece aún más, el crecimiento de la Iglesia, sabiendo la gente lo importante que es la Iglesia De Cristo para el logro de la salvación porque esa es la ayuda más grande a la humanidad que jamás podemos ofrecer a la humanidad.

Exempt: Todas las personas están felices y yo también estoy muy feliz porque la Iglesia De Cristo nos está predicando el evangelio y está ayudando a la comunidad a crecer.

[segmento termina]

Hno. Juan: Esto es lo que también queremos que experimenten, especialmente en estos tiempos difíciles y complicados. Ojalá que puedan unirse con nosotros en la Iglesia De Cristo para tener la esperanza en el futuro bendito prometido por el Señor Dios, no solo en esta vida, y muy especialmente, en recibir la salvación y la vida eterna. Queridos amigos, continuamos extendiéndoles nuestra invitación para que continúen escuchando las enseñanzas que sostiene en la Iglesia De Cristo. Pueden visitar nuestros sitios web en incmedia.org/espanol. Si tienen preguntas, escríbenos o visiten una congregación cerca de ustedes para conocer más sobre la Iglesia De Cristo. Soy el Hermano Juan Fisher. Gracias por estar con nosotros en este episodio de El Mensaje.

[gráfico en pantalla]

Hablen con un Ministro del Evangelio hoy

incmedia.org/estudia-con-nosotros

ENGLISH

Brother Juan: Hello dear friends, you are watching El Mensaje. The year 2020 is being debated by experts in various fields on whether this was the worst year due to the onslaught of calamities, hardship, civil unrest, disputes between countries and various troubles. They are also pessimistic on what will happen next, for they consider the long-lasting effect that the pandemic may cause in the future, indicating that we will face darker days ahead. Such pessimism about the future fuels the fear and anxiety among many people. Now, two years later, there is still a storm of pessimism surrounding us, but should we be pessimistic? No, brethren, of course not! What is the biblical explanation for all these cataclysmic events happening all over the world? In Isaiah 24:5-6, also 3-4 (Good News Bible):

The people have defiled the earth by breaking God’s laws and by violating the covenant he made to last forever. So God has pronounced a curse on the earth. Its people are paying for what they have done. Fewer and fewer remain alive. The earth will lie shattered and ruined. The LORD has spoken and it will be done. The earth dries up and withers; the whole world grows weak; both earth and sky decay.

Isaiah 24:5-6, 3-4 Good News Bible

The Lord God has spoken that the earth will suffer and will grow weak, decay and lie shattered and ruined. Isn’t it true that this is what we can observe? Dear friends, what is the reason this will be experienced by the world? “The people have defiled the earth by breaking God’s laws.” What is more frightening is that the condition that the world experienced last year may be a harbinger of worse things to come. But is there still hope for man for him not to be forever lost? There is hope, dear friends. The Lord God Himself has told men what to do so that He will return to them and make their lives better: In Malachi 3:7 (Amplified Bible), please listen:

Even from the days of your fathers you have turned aside from My statutes and ordinances and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you, says the Lord of hosts. But you say, How shall we return?

Malachi 3:7 Amplified Bible

God has an invitation for all people. Notice He said, “Return to me.” Though people have scorned His laws and have not kept them, He gives this window of opportunity for them to return to Him and His promise is also certain: “I will return” to you. How will one be able to return to God so that God will also return to Him? One must fulfill God’s plan that will bring man to prosperity and not disaster. Let us read Jeremiah 29:11 (Good News Bible), please listen:

I alone know the plans I have for you, plans to bring you prosperity and not disaster, plans to bring about the future you hope for.

Jeremiah 29:11 Good News Bible

Hno. Juan: The Lord God’s plans are for man’s good and not evil—plans for his welfare, peace, hope, and bright future. Hence, when it comes to one’s way of living, especially in their services rendered to God, it should be in accordance with His plan. Even though they may claim that they never left God, they uphold good works and service to Him, if it is not in accordance with God’s plan, it will not bring them to a bright future but to disaster and destruction. If one will be able to fulfill the Lord God’s plan, there is no reason for one to be pessimistic. One will be hopeful for the good things that God has in store for him. What is the Lord God’s plan that must be fulfilled to receive a prosperous blessed future? That is what we are going to discuss after this short break.

BREAK

Verse Graphic (Psalm 112:6)

Surely the righteous will never be shaken; they will be remembered forever.

Hno. Juan: Hello dear friends, thank you for staying with us here in this program, El Mensaje. The onslaught of disasters in 2020 caused people to be pessimistic on what will happen next. In the first part of our study we have learned that, although we are surrounded by terrible events that may cause great fear of what is yet to come, there is still hope of a bright future. There is a reason for one to be optimistic in the midst of negativity. How can one attain that? One must return to the Lord God by fulfilling God’s plan that will lead us to His promised bright future. Like how His prophecy that this world will only get worse and will end up in ruin is being fulfilled, the same is His promise of a blessed future to those who will fulfill His good plan. What is the Lord God’s plan that must be fulfilled to receive a prosperous blessed future? Ephesians 1:9 (New International Reader’s Version), please listen:

he showed us the mystery of his plan. It was in keeping with what he wanted to do. It was what he had planned through Christ.

Ephesians 1:9 New International Reader’s Version

Hno. Juan: Apostle Paul clarified that the Lord God is who has a plan. This was planned by Him through the Lord Jesus Christ. What is the Lord God’s plan through our Lord Jesus Christ? Let us read the next verse, Ephesians 1:10 (New King James Version), the Holy Scriptures teach us:

that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.

Ephesians 1:10 New King James Version

Hno. Juan: Hence, God’s plan is that all be gathered in the Lord Jesus Christ. How will people be gathered in Christ? Here in 1 Corinthians 12:27, 12 (Weymouth New Testament):

As for you, you are the body of Christ, and individually you are members of it; For just as the human body is one and yet has many parts, and all its parts, many as they are, constitute but one body; so it is with the church of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:27, 12 Weymouth New Testament

Hno. Juan: Apostle Paul is speaking here to the true Christians in Corinth, those who were able to fulfill God’s plan that all should be gathered in Christ. How were they able to be gathered in Christ? He said: “As for you, you are the body of Christ, and individually you are members of it.”

Hence, people should be members of the body of Christ. What did Apostle Paul teach concerning the body of Christ? “For just as the human body is one and yet has many parts, and all its parts, many as they are, constitute but one body.” Though there are many members, they are considered as one body only—the body of Christ. What is the name of the body of Christ? He said: “So it is with the Church of Christ.” God’s love for people and His desire for people to have a bright future is so great, dear friends. There is no discrimination. Everyone has the opportunity to have a bright future, the only condition is to fulfill God’s plan—for people to become members of the Church Of Christ.

For this plan to be brought to fruition, the Lord Jesus Christ emphasized the importance of being one with Him by virtue of becoming a member in the Church Of Christ. This is what He said in John 10:7, 9 (Revised English Bible):

So Jesus spoke again: “In very truth I tell you, I am the door of the sheepfold. … I am the door; anyone who comes into the fold through me will be safe. …

John 10:7, 9 Revised English Bible

Hno. Juan: It is a requirement that people should enter the sheepfold or flock through Christ as the door. What is the great blessing in fulfilling this command of the Lord? Salvation. What is the flock where people should enter through Christ as the door? Let us read Acts 20:28 (George Lamsa Translation):

Take heed therefore to yourselves and to all the flock, over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, to feed the church of Christ which he has purchased with his blood.

Acts 20:28 George Lamsa Translation

Hno. Juan: Membership in the Church Of Christ, then, is the first step in satisfying God’s intention–for mere membership is not enough. The members are instructed to fulfill something for the Lord God to remain in them. 1 Peter 1:15 (Good News Bible):

Instead, be holy in all that you do, just as God who called you is holy.

1 Peter 1:15 Good News Bible

Hence, members of the Church Of Christ are commanded that in their everyday conduct and manner of living, they will uphold holiness. God expects them not to slip back nor conform to the base desires of people of this world. No material thing, prestige, fame and the like in this world will be able to equal the promised salvation. So even though the moral standards of this evil world are deteriorating, all the more it is incumbent that we live righteously for this will bring us to salvation.

Though we may still be sojourning this troublesome world full of chaos, difficulties, The Lord God made a promise to His people for them not to fear or be pessimistic. Job 11:14-18 (New King James Version) expresses this desire of our Lord God:

If iniquity were in your hand, and you put it far away, And would not let wickedness dwell in your tents; Then surely you could lift up your face without spot; Yes, you could be steadfast, and not fear; Because you would forget your misery, And remember it as waters that have passed away, And your life would be brighter than noonday. Though you were dark, you would be like the morning. And you would be secure, because there is hope; Yes, you would dig around you, and take your rest in safety.

Job 11:14-18 New King James Version

Hno. Juan: Those who put away evil and wrong from their home, can walk steadily forward to God without fear. They shall forget their misery. It will all be in the past. They shall be secure and feel confident because there is hope that God will bless their everyday existence in this world.

Narrator: The daily struggles in Haiti have impacted one major area of concern, education for children. Reports show that “more than half of the country lives on less than $2 a day, so it’s very difficult for families to save enough money to send their children to school.” But for one school founder, his newfound hope would inspire him to share it with families in his village and his school. Just one of the numerous places throughout Haiti being part of the growth of something greater in their lives.

Exempt Jean Charles: (in Creole) There are many parents who have a difficult time paying for their children. That’s why not all are able to afford Primary School or formal education at a young age.

Narrator: Exempt Jean Charles, a former lay Protestant preacher at Bethesda Baptist School. The school he founded for families with children in the remote mountain village area of Decouvert. This was done to help in providing much needed education for suffering families due to the ongoing economic hardship in Haiti.

Exempt: (in Creole)The school currently has 155 students. The tuition for them to go to school is 350 Haitian Gourdes [equivalent to $3.50 USD].

Narrator: Continuing to deal with the struggles faced by his school, he would meet another teacher by the name of Dieunel Joseph. And in their conversation regarding education, another subject matter came up that would change Exempt’s belief about the faith he upheld as a Protestant.

Exempt: (in Creole) I learned about the Church Of Christ from Brother Dieunel Joseph. What made me become a member of the Church Of Christ is listening to all fundamental teachings upheld in the Church. Before, I was taught a lot of things in my former religion as well. But then, I found out that it was a mistake in following those things. Then I decided to continue and now I am a member of the Church Of Christ.

Narrator: That decision led to more people in Decouvert learning the true gospel and adding a new local congregation. But even while serving as a head deacon and changing the name of his school to reflect his new found faith, the hardship for his students’ education still remained. Until timely assistance arrived through the Care For Humanity project spearheaded through the Felix Y. Manalo Foundation: a donation that will give all of his students a year of schooling, tuition free.

Tereze Doizon: (in Creole) We say thanks for the help that we received because it will help us a lot. Before we weren’t able to make uniforms for our children and to pay for their schooling. Now with the help that we received from the Church, our children will now be able to attend classes.

Bro. Camy Agustin: When we help our fellow men, our country people, it helps us to spread all the more the good news. So people will be able to see how much we show our love to them. It’s a good help for them as well.

Narrator: And this was just one of many events Church Of Christ held to address the needs of some of Haiti’s communities. Over a 5 day period, ministers of the gospel traveled to different places to provide food care packages through Care To Humanity events, while also giving the opportunity to share the true gospel to be shared through evangelical missions led by the Supervising Minister, Brother Esteban Inocencio Jr. in the Ecclesiastical District of the Caribbean, not only providing for the material needs of the people, but more importantly, their spiritual needs.

Brother Christian De Leon: It is God’s will that He wants all people to be saved, but they must come to the knowledge of the truth. We continue to unite with our Executive Minister to teach the words of God in all places, all throughout the world, particularly here in the district or in the Caribbean.

Narrator: With many coming to know and accept the true faith, baptisms were also held in places like Kachon, Decouvert and Petit-Goave. That growth resulted in the establishing of more Group Worship Services in Les Palms and Kachon, providing for the spiritual needs of the ever growing family of the Church Of Christ in Haiti.

Bro. Esteban Inocencio: The growth of the Church is unstoppable. It has been prophesied in the Bible that when God works, no one can stop this work. And this is indeed a clear manifestation of God’s work. We’re in the very mountains of Haiti.

Narrator: And with the growth of the true faith, more and more people in Haiti have the chance to receive the greatest aid they could have in their lives

Brother Esteban: It even furthers the growth of the Church, the people knowing how important the Church of Christ is for the attainment of salvation because that is the greatest aid to humanity that we can ever offer mankind

Exempt: All people are happy and I am really happy too because the Church Of Christ is preaching the gospel to us and is helping the community to grow.

[end video segment]

Brother Juan: This is what we also want you to experience especially in these trying and difficult times. May you join us in the Church Of Christ to be hopeful of God’s promised blessed future not only in this life, most especially, the attainment of salvation and eternal life.

Dear friends, we continue to extend our invitation to you to continue to listen to the teachings upheld in the Church Of Christ. You may visit our website, incmedia.org/espanol. If you have questions, write to us or visit a local congregation near you to know more about the Church Of Christ. I’m Brother Juan Fisher. Thank you for being with us on this episode of El Mensaje.

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Growing up CODA Part 3

Aliw Pablo: It’s been a few months now since I’ve met the David brothers, Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel from our Growing up CODA Series. And you know, I remembered when our team here worked on their story. We wondered, will other people, even if they’re not part of the deaf community, relate to their story? Will our listeners gain as much as we did from their story? Well, turns out, we were in for a surprise.

…what stood out to me is how the parents continued to attend worship service for more than 18 years despite not being able to hear

I’m a choir member, So the fact that there’s no music in their worship…still makes me cry.

Because music, the hymns that we have are basically prayers.

That’s what I thought of because for someone who has been hearing all their life, how many times have I taken that for granted?

There is something for everyone in their story and every bit of it was so inspiring!

Aliw Pablo: For the past few weeks, we’ve heard from a lot of you through text messages, comments and direct messages on social media like these:

Thank you so much for sharing such wonderful and inspiring story

…how move I was listening to your life story

Aliw Pablo: And we get it. Many of you, like us, have been completely immersed in the first two Growing up CODA Episodes. So immersed that some have even told us that you’ve listened or watched the first two episodes a few times.

The kids watched it first and they told me about it… I’ve watched it a couple of times already and I still cry about it!

Aliw Pablo: And you told us about your biggest takeaways and how these lessons are making an impact in your own lives.

…and that showed me how God has His ways of showing His love

…sacrificing yourself so that your kids could have more, could have better…

Aliw Pablo: We heard you. And honestly, we were just as eager as you to meet their parents.

You’re listening to Making Changes. I’m Aliw Garcia Pablo. It’s a show about the changes we go through and the life lessons we learn along the way. But always with God by our side. It’s part three of our Growing up CODA Series and our season finale. Today’s episode is like no other.

Hello, Brother Ramon and Sister Raquel!

Aliw Pablo: And yes, today you will meet the parents, Ramon and Raquel David, who are both deaf. The two people who raised Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel to be the Ministers of the Gospel they are today. And we’ll also be joined by Rose Guillermo, who will translate for us and as you’ll soon learn, is now a part of the David family in a way that only God could have planned.

Aliw Pablo: Are you recording your video Ka Rose, po?

Rose Guillermo: I think it is on.

Aliw Pablo: In this episode, you’ll hear from our viewers and listeners who had their own set of questions for the family, specifically for the parents. So many of you wanted to learn more about them, like how do they meet? Or how did they come to that decision to sell the house? And how do they have that kind of faith?

Brother Rowel David: They are very nervous.

Aliw Pablo: They are doing great.

Brother Rowel David: That was one of the things that she mentioned. She said, I don’t know what to say.

Aliw Pablo: So before we get started, you’ll hear a lot of “po” in this episode. “Po” is a term of endearment in the Filipino language used when showing respect to the one you’re talking to. And you’ll also notice us addressing one another as “Brother” or “Sister” or “Ka” short for Kapatid in Filipino. It’s the way we show love for the Brotherhood in the Iglesia Ni Cristo or Church Of Christ.

Aliw Pablo: Brother Ramon and Sister Raquel so nice to finally meet you, for agreeing to be with us on part 3 of Growing up CODA.

Raquel David: Yes, when I saw the invitation, I’m very happy. And also seeing everybody here, my sons, so I’m very grateful.

Brother Rowel David: When we first told her about the interview, and that everyone wants to meet them she said, ‘Why us? We’re not the only deaf people. Why do they want to meet us? And you know, but they’re very nervous.

Aliw Pablo: How does it feel, po when you watched the episodes po? How did it feel watching, po your sons and hearing their stories?

Raquel David: When I saw my sons I’m truly, truly touched. Very inspired on how they tell the story. And it made me cry. So thank God, I’m very very happy and very proud of my sons.

Aliw Pablo: Which part hit you the hardest Sister Raquel? Which part touched you the most from the stories they told?

Raquel David: You’re just going to make me cry. Well, I can still feel the reality of our stories and how my sons grow up. And I’m deaf you know, and I cannot believe it, that they are now Ministers. And this is really God’s gift. I know that God helped my sons and where they are right now. And this really made me happy and very proud. So I really thank God for this. So I know that God will always take care of my sons and their family. He will never forget us. And I truly, truly love God.

Aliw Pablo: Truly, truly love God. This is a statement that their mother Raquel said over and over again, in this interview. Her deep love and respect for God is truly undeniable. And that alone explained it all: how the boys were raised, how she worshiped, and how she lives her life every day, with no excuses, and with no fear.

And then it was time for them to answer your questions. And because this special episode is for you, our listeners or viewers, I wanted to start with what shocked many, if not all, who listened to part two.

This question is from Jan. She’s actually one of our producers here at INC Media, and who helped us in this recording.

Jan: My question is, when we found out that you sold your house, po, what were your prayers like? What made you decide, okay, we have to sell the house and what were your conversation with your husband? Like, was it easy? Was it an easy decision? Was it a hard decision? Because I cannot even share my french fries with my family, but you sold your house. So tell me how, how did that come about, po?

Raquel David: It’s a lot of stress. It worries me a lot. I know how difficult life in the Philippines is not having enough food. So that came to mind. You know, with Rowel, he got sick, too. He did not tell me that he got sick when he was in the Philippines. He was hospitalized. And I didn’t even know. Nobody told me. How would you feel? You know, I’m the mother. And so I have a niece who told me, you know.

I asked her basically what’s going on in the Philippines. And I’m asking her why I’m feeling this way. I cannot sleep at night. And so I’m asking them, you know.

And finally she told me, but my son being in the hospital. That worries me a lot.

So as soon as I got home, I prayed more. I know, we don’t have a lot of income to support my sons. And so we came to the discussion, we have to sell the house.

And so I continue to encourage my sons to just continue with their studies. I wanted them to continue to become a Minister. And that will make me happy. And we will just be patient. We don’t want to do anything that will ruin their studies. And so I constantly ask for help. So we decided to just move in with my sister and sell the house. That way, I’ll be able to save some money and you know, find ways and means on how we can support my sons. And now they’re doing very well. Thank God.

Aliw Pablo: You know, I must have heard the story about Raquel and Ramon’s decision to sell their house at least a dozen times while we were editing the story. But just like you, I’m still so moved. But let’s back up a little bit. And let’s learn more about Raquel and Ramon before they became parents. Here’s another story that so many of you wanted to know.

Denise: What is your love story, po? How did you meet? And how did you fall in love? That’s all, thank you again.

Aliw Pablo: Before we start we just wanted to mention one thing we learned while producing this episode, which is that both mom and dad were actually not born deaf. As kids they had both taken medication that caused them to lose their hearing. Mom Raquel was a few months old when she lost her hearing while dad Ramon was six years old when he lost his hearing. But anyway, back to their story.

Raquel David: So initially Ramon wanted to be friends with me. And I turned him down right away. He asked me if he can be my boyfriend. And I turned him down right away because I’m an Iglesia Ni Cristo and he’s not a member. So I walked away. I kept on turning him down and I refused to have any relationship because I’m an Iglesia Ni Cristo.

Aliw Pablo: What was it about Sister Raquel that you saw and you like? Why did you like her?

Raquel David: Yes, answer why?

Ramon David: Well, she’s a woman who’s very religious. And I liked that better than the other girls that I saw. She always goes to church.

Aliw Pablo: Eventually, Raquel transferred from a deaf school to a hearing school. Then one day, a knock came at the door.

Raquel David: So before visiting my house, he kept on asking our friends and classmates where I live. And so he got accompanied by someone to visit me at home. And while I’m at home studying, you know, for my homework, my niece answered the door. She saw someone at the door. Saw someone who was very handsome, and told me that there’s someone, a guy who’s at the door.

And I still refuse to see who said that door. And when I saw it’s Ramon, I told him, ‘I don’t have feelings for you. And I don’t want to be in a relationship. I just wanted to continue with my studies. Go home. I don’t want you.’ And he insisted on knowing me. And I told him, I’m a member of the Iglesia Ni Cristo. A long time ago, this is the sign for Iglesia Ni Cristo. And he did not understand what Iglesia Ni Cristo is. And he became very curious about it. He wants to know more about the Church. And I told him, ‘Well see for yourself and find out for yourself. Look for it.’ Please go home and look for it. So I basically did not help him to find this. But he’s the one who searched for it. I don’t even know what he did. But I think he just did it on his own looking for the Church.

Ramon David: Yes, I actually wanted to go to the Church, you know, because I wanted to be blessed too.

Raquel David: So he went through the doctrinal lessons and he was baptized. And then he came back to my house, knocked on the door and told me that he was baptized.

Aliw Pablo: I thought she had no clue. She had no idea that he was doing Bible studies on his own.

Raquel David: Well, when he knocked on the door and told me that he was baptized, I did not believe him. I thought he was joking. And I asked him, where did he get baptized? And he said, ‘in the Iglesia Ni Cristo. There was a man, a Brother in the Church Of Christ who invited me and you know, guided me and I got baptized.’

I came here to see you. But I still did not believe at that time that he was baptized.

Ramon David: I got baptized in Templo Central in Quezon City.

Aliw Pablo: And he did. A former Catholic, Ramon began attending worship services in Templo Central in Quezon City, Philippines. He had Bible studies and was eventually baptized. And soon, his dad also joined the Church. So from there, Raquel, now welcomed to being courted by him, and eventually, they got married.

Meanwhile, her parents had petitioned her to come to America. And then it was her time to go. But she was two months pregnant with her first son, Ronnie.

Raquel David: I was very concerned because I had to move to the United States. And so I decided to always pray for help, for guidance when I leave the Philippines for the US.

Aliw Pablo: What did you pray for?

Raquel David: I was worried about my worship service. How am I going to get to the worship service if I’m here in America. And you know, that was my concern. I was relying on my parents. Where will we go to church?

Aliw Pablo: Once Raquel arrived in America, she and her family would travel to Charleston, South Carolina, for worship service, a five hour drive. But with her persistence to be able to worship consistently, Raquel found a way.

Brother Ronnie David: They were able to find other members across Middle Georgia. And then they decided to have it there in the house in the beginning, and eventually moved on to a YMCA when they grew bigger and so on, so forth became Atlanta, then South Atlanta, North Atlanta. But yes, po it did start there in our house.

Aliw Pablo: So Sister Raquel was an instrument for the Church to basically have worship services in the whole state of Georgia.

Faith can truly move mountains. The brothers even talked about when their mom first came to America, not knowing yet where to worship. She would still get dressed on Sunday mornings and be in her room and pray. Or when she first had Brother Ronnie as a baby, she would leave the house and walk just keep walking, just wanting to be out looking for the nearest Iglesia Ni Cristo House of Worship.

Her faith was so deeply rooted that no one could pull it, change it, or weaken it.

So a lot of questions, a lot of people.. this is the comment that we got a lot of… is how in the world did both Sister Raquel and Brother Ramon…how in the world did they, did they stay so strong in their faith for 18 years?

Number one, first not having a place of worship when they first arrive, but also not having an interpreter? How do they stay that strong in their faith? And not you know, get lazy in their services or get complacent? Why? Why were their faith so strong all those years?

Raquel David: Because I always felt that I always wanted to go to church, and I don’t want to miss any worship services. I always go to church because I know that God is the only one who can make me feel better. I don’t want to just miss any worship services and be complacent. I want to go to church and do my service because I really, really love God. Ronnie and Rowel, you know, my family will tell them to stay home and I said ‘no.’ They’re gonna be with me to go to church. They are still my sons. And they will follow me and they will go to church. And so we were always together going to church.

Aliw Pablo: Where does her love for God come from? How did she become like that? How did she become so faithful?

Raquel David: I think this is a lot of respect for God. I feel that deep inside me I always dream about God. It’s just that I feel He’s always by my side. Regardless of what trials and difficulties I am experiencing, that’s how I always felt. That’s always been my feeling.

Aliw Pablo: It was at this point that I realized while listening to Raquel and how she passionately talks about their deep love for God without saying a word. Perhaps it’s because living in a silent world and often in a lonely world, all her life, that God has been her constant companion in her thoughts, in her dreams, and in every breath she took. Being an outsider in a hearing and unpredictable world, God had been the only one she could rely on.

And as she spoke, we can see how deep faith carried over to her children. Here she talks about how prayer has been a staple in their home, and how she began to tell her boys that God has big eyes.

Raquel David: I know there’s a lot of things going on in school. I don’t want them to copy whatever’s happening in school or any peer pressure. So I always remind them not to listen to bad things. When they go to school, cover their ears. And you know, don’t use bad words. I keep on reminding them, advising them that God is always looking at you. And so don’t ever do that.

And so, later on, what I did, I just constantly reminded them that God is almighty, that they can see him everywhere they are. And so I constantly advise them to always pray, and God will take care of them. So they better be good. So even if I’m not watching, I know that God is just all over. Because I know they’re very young when we started praying to God. And you know, we always have that as part of our lives.

You know, with Ronnie, he inspired me, Ronnie probably is about one year old.

And that night, you know, I told Ronnie, I have to kneel and pray.

And Ronnie was just looking at me. I was on my knees, and he was just watching me and trying to copy me. I didn’t know that he was copying me when I said, Amen. And I looked at Ronnie, he was still praying. And he was holding his hands. He was praying. And it really gave me goosebumps, inspired me to see him praying together with me. And then we slept. I did not teach him, he was just doing it himself. That’s a big inspiration for me to see. So I continue to really, really ask God for help in everything that we do.

Aliw Pablo: But at this point in the interview, we wanted to go back to that life changing moment they had during the 95th anniversary.

What it was like to see you Sister Rose is to see an interpreter for the first time

in America, in a worship service, what was that like for them?

Raquel David: Well, I was just trying to be part and participate in the event.

My husband, Ramon keeps on telling me there’s a sign language interpreter right there on the screen. And I did not see an interpreter. But then my husband, you know, told me to just watch the screen. I did not actually understand a lot of American Sign Language. It was not as clear as before. However, I was just grateful.

Ramon David: So when I saw the interpreter and I saw her on the screen, I decided to get closer to the interpreter. My wife is very shy, and she doesn’t want to go in front. So I went to the front.

Raquel David: I’m not shy. I was with my friends and my sisters sitting down with all my group in my local. You know, we sit together and we talk.

I am shocked. I felt like I’ve been wanting that for so long. I had to sit and really, really pay attention. I did not pay attention to anything. It was a beautiful interpretation. I just love watching. I could envision the church having an interpreter everywhere I go.

Ramon David: Well, I know I’ve been waiting. I’ve been needing a sign language interpreter. So I’ve always wanted to see one. During the 95th, I cannot see from afar, so I had to move forward to see the interpreter right in front of me. That’s what I did.

Aliw Pablo: I was also really curious about Rose’s version of this pivotal moment.

Rose Guillermo: Yes, 95th is one of the most memorable moments of our lives.

I do have my deaf friends and my parents that I was inviting. They were not members yet of the Church. And one of the reasons we requested for interpretation because I have a lot of dear friends who wanted to go to the 95th living in Washington, DC.

Aliw Pablo: So just when you think that the story of this family cannot get any more special. Well, you see at this point during the 95th anniversary, the Davids didn’t know Rose, the ASL interpreter. She was from New York while the Davids are from Georgia. What they did not know is that Rose is also a CODA (Child Of Deaf Adults.) She had been trying for over two decades to share her faith with her deaf parents and her friends in the deaf community. And so every chance she could, she would always sign and translate for them in church activities or Bible studies or worship services. And as you’ll soon hear, the way that the lives of these two families will now be intertwined forever is proof that there is no such thing as coincidences.

Rose Guillermo: So we have like, probably about 10 deaf visitors. And it was, it was a moment wherein I told myself, I’m gonna rest a little bit since the main event is over.

And I’m going to sit. So I walked away from the camera, and I saw an empty chair. And there’s a man who, a Brother who was just standing right there with the chair holding on to the chair, but he was not sitting down. He was just standing there and holding on to the chair. So I asked the Brother, Brother, you know, he has the ribbon. When you have a ribbon, you’re a member of the Church. So I said, Brother, are you going to use the chair? And then this Brother started gesturing. So, I said, what? You’re deaf? And then he said,’ Yes.’ So right away, I got my goosebumps knowing that we have a Brother, who’s deaf. I’ve been dying. I’ve been dying to see deaf people in Church. Primarily, my parents were not members at that time. And it’s here on the 95th anniversary. And then he started saying (sign language). When he did that, I started crying because I’ve never seen a Brother, who’s a member, (has the ribbon) and also a deacon at the same time. Who was deaf. That was the first time we’ve ever met. And I said, Where’s your family? Oh, my wife is back there, back there. Bring her over, I’m going to introduce you to my parents. And that’s when it happened.

Aliw Pablo: Even though they didn’t know it yet, this would be the moment that God took their paths and joined it together, making their lives completely intertwined forever. Meanwhile, eventually, Raquel followed her husband, Ramon, and found a seat in front of Rose.

Raquel David: And so in the beginning, like I said, I did not understand fully well, American Sign Language. However, you know, we’re in constant communication with each other. And so I kept up with my ASL skills now. So finally, it’s an open communication for us using this language.

Aliw Pablo: Now, before we go into the details of how both our families became one big family, let me tell you about our awesome ASL interpreter Rose, who up to this point, had never met another deaf church member. Well, she has her own story to tell.

Rose Guillermo: I’ve experienced so much persecution from my parents. And it’s very difficult when there’s a barrier when it comes to communication. So I have to keep up with the skills of signing. So that one day, they will also be part of the Church Of Christ. And so seeing someone who’s deaf and a member and who’s a deacon, that means my parents have hope. They have hope of getting saved. They have hope of becoming a member too one day. And they did.

Aliw Pablo: And because she’s a CODA herself, she related to the brothers instantly.

Rose Guillermo: But if you have deaf parents, the bonding of the children, the hearing children are just there. We share the same feeling, you know, when you’re…

sometimes you have to explain again and again to our parents what we are trying to say. And we might have our facial expressions, but that’s actually just, you know, explaining it further for them to understand. It’s part of being CODAs. It’s a bond, you cannot just take it away. It’s just there. And so the minute we met each other, it was just that. And ever since then we’re just supporting one another.

Aliw Pablo: But here’s the thing. Rose didn’t meet the brothers till a week later over a video call. In fact, according to the brothers after the 95th celebration, their parents didn’t even tell them they met the interpreter. Meanwhile, what both sets of parents did not know is that their kids had actually met each other at a youth group or Kadiwa gathering the day before the 95th anniversary without knowing how their two worlds would eventually be joined as one.

Rose Guillermo: I have four daughters. Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel met my children. From my understanding, they were bragging, they were so proud of their parents that my daughter said, ‘Oh, yes, my mom is the interpreter in the Church.’ And Brother Rowel said, ‘Oh, yeah, that my mom is deaf.’ So it’s, I don’t know, from my envision it’s happening all at the same time I met the parents while my children met each other.

Brother Ronnie David: And then it wasn’t about a week later. That’s me and my brother, we were at home. I see my mother she’s talking on… They had this TV phone for deaf people. And I see my mother just going off talking. She’s all excited and all that. You see, like guys come here, you meet this person, in this family.

So then we go over there. I believe Ka Rose is doing the same thing saying, Hey, you guys, get over here. Get over here, you guys. And when we all showed up on the screen, I’ll let my brothers take the rest.

Brother Rowel David: I mean, that’s basically it. We all saw each other on the screen. And we were like, ‘Hey, we met.’ And then the parents were like, ‘No, we you know, we met as well.’ And you know, it just happened this show…

Aliw Pablo: Okay, we’ll cut to the chase. Brother Rowel, actually ended up falling in love and marrying Rose’s daughter, Crystal. They’ve been happily married now for four years.

Sister Rose is now your…

Brother Rowel David: My mother-in-law. Hello, Mom

Aliw Pablo: Your mother-in-law..

Rose Guillermo: I don’t know what God’s plan is. But I’ve always wanted my daughters to just marry a Minister.

Aliw Pablo: Did you really?

Rose Guillermo: Yes.

Aliw Pablo: Oh, wow. Look at that. Oh, wow.

Rose Guillermo: It was… we always say it was really meant to be when Brother Rowel finally asks for this. I was like waiting.

Aliw Pablo: So you were… she was waiting more than her daughter was. Oh my goodness, what a beautiful story. So really all around everyone’s prayers were answered.

And as only fate and God’s plan would have it. These two families are now one big happy family. Oh, and there’s more. Brother Ronnie is currently the resident minister in Bellmore, New York, the same local congregation that Rose and her family are in. Coincidence? Nah, always God’s plan.

Rose Guillermo: One thing Sister Aliw I can tell you is that I am the first one in my whole side of the family to become a member of the Church of Christ.

My only prayer is to have my parents become members too because of their disability. That was the first thing that was on my mind. And now that I have the David family, as part of my family, then it made me more inspired. That I’m not alone. You know, that God did not abandon me in this endeavor for the deaf people because we have the David family who’s going to be there to advocate for what we want to do. It’s something that I believe that God gave us to do, a responsibility for us to do. Sister Aliw, until now I don’t know if I’m making an impact. But seeing my parents being in the church after 27 years of persisting on inviting them and turning me down so many many times, turning me down many times more than when they said yes to doctrinal lessons.

Aliw Pablo: 27 years. Wow. What made you keep going, what made you keep going?

Rose Guillermo: Love for them. Love for the deaf. That’s why I continue to be a professional interpreter because I know whatever I’m feeling for my parents right now I’m also feeling it for the deaf community, for my deaf friends. It’s the only thing I can offer them. And so whatever I gain I already made a promise to God whatever skills I have right now, I’m definitely going to be sharing it with everyone because it is just to share my faith. That’s the main goal to bring more souls into the fold, whether they are deaf or hearing. They should also have the chance they have souls, they should have a chance to also hear God’s words.

Aliw Pablo: Both of Rose’s parents were baptized into the true Church Of Christ, and are also as much of a part of this extended family. Hearing Rose say, ‘I’m not sure if I’m making an impact’ is such a testament to the kind of heart she has of wanting to serve and help.

What started as simply translating for parents in 2005 has now evolved to being a Certified ASL interpreter or translator. She’s the pioneering member of CSD or Christian Society for the Deaf here in the States. Today, she teaches ASL classes as part of the New Era University Certification Program.

Rose Guillermo: My cultural background with the deaf community helps a lot, po when it comes to that. And so the Church Administration’s advice was to still study. Get certification, get the experience needed, and move from there. So we God’s help, po I was guided properly, and finally got that approval from the Church Administration allowing me to be an interpreter in the Church. Because they already saw the need for the future for the deaf community and for those people who really wanted to be saved.

Aliw Pablo: In the end, God heard the prayers of Rose and Raquel. These two women whose mission and goal were always to help save people and be of service all for God’s honor and glory. He heard, He listened, and He answered.

Sister Raquel, your sons had mentioned that you had told them that you wanted them to be Ministers so they could help the deaf community. When you see your sons on the CSD app, we saw them… when you see how your sons are not just preaching the gospel, but are also able to help save the souls of the deaf, you know, in the deaf community, how does that feel like for you?

Raquel David: Yes, I’m more excited to invite my deaf friends. I don’t have much, but I wanted to invite more because of that. I want my deaf friends to be saved too.

Aliw Pablo: So your sons told us Sister Raquel, that you have no fear. You will invite the deaf, you will invite the hearing, the speaking. Where do you get that bravery? Why are you so brave and so courageous and you never let being deaf hold you back from sharing your faith?

Raquel David: Well, I want to show them a good example. So I keep on inviting. It’s just the way it is. And at my job, you know, I also know I also invited them you know…7 of them actually, I invited. They’re not deaf, they’re hearing. Constantly inviting. I just want to ask them you know, I mean even if they refuse my invitation. It’s OK. And the next thing I do is I invited my deaf friends using my video relay. I will invite them, call them you know, just listen to Bible studies.

Aliw Pablo: At this point in our interview, I think Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel would like to say something to you. First, Sister Rose.

Brother Ronnie David: You know, Ka Rose, ever since the 95th and just knowing that my parents were getting interpretation, it was already a big thing back then.

But to see that it just kept on going, and it never stopped. You kept on interpreting.

If I could share Sister Aliw, even after we, me and my brother will come back on breaks. There was one time even Ka Rose visited, she surprised my family, her daughters and she was able to interpret in the worship service in one of our breaks. And I just remember that it meant so much to my parents. Ka Rose I just want you to know it meant a lot to us too. We need to see that because even for us that first year, our prep year in school was very tough. And you need all the inspiration you can get.

And see when in terms of my parents, that was just another reminder, that was just something else to tell us that we need to keep on going. And to see that everything is keep on doing for the Church. Until now, you still are interpreting in the worship services. Even later, after this podcast, we’re going to be having a study of God’s word, an Evangelical Mission sponsored by the Christian Society for the Deaf, and we already have confirmed guests, and we’re excited to see them, it just blows my mind that until now, we can still work together like this. And God’s allowing it, you know, even for me myself to be in your local as your Resident Minister, you as my Head Secretary. And we can go out there in the field, and we’re just trying to bring in as many souls as we can. It’s just, it’s amazing that we always talked about this before. And then we’re finally doing it. So Ka Rose, thank you so much. And also thank you for helping my parents. To go so long without receiving the words of God. And what little spiritual advice he could give us, which was more than enough for a little spiritual, or religious or Christian or biblical knowledge they had, has expanded tenfold, because of the way you were able to help relay the words of God to them through interpretation. So not only did it develop more for me, my brother, but even for my parents, thank you so much, Ka Rose, it means a lot.

Brother Rowel David: Just like what Kuya Ronnie mentioned, that inspired us as well. Until now, you know, for me, I thank God all the time, because He’s allowing my brother to be able to be there with you in your local congregation. I’m thankful for that because I know that there, I know that the work they can do together, will be able to help so many more people like our parents. And so thank you so much. And of course, you know, I can’t, I have to be able to say thank you as well for accepting me to be your son. It’s a blessing, it is how much you’ve inspired us. And then now to know that I can be able to call you mom, it means a lot. So thank you.

Rose Guillermo: I’ve been looking for a son. So sometimes my children are very jealous that I am very much into my sons than my daughters. So thank you for taking one of mine. Thank you, thank you, you are an inspiration to all of us.

We did an interview with Brother Ronnie and we were just talking about that. Time flies. He was just a student before, before we met him, he was not in the ministry yet. And now he’s a full-fledged Minister taking care of our local congregation. So we’re very, very blessed. So praise be to God. Thank you so much.

Aliw Pablo: Of all the local congregations of the Church in the world, we’re talking 1000s. And God placed brother Ronnie, in your own local congregation, Sister Rose. There is no doubt that there is work that God really wants you both to do together. So that’s so beautiful to see.

And, you know, before we end this Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel, can we just say thank you for sharing your parents with us. Because we know they’re your biological parents. But we feel like watching the stories you’ve told us.

I know a lot of members in the church that watch your story feel like they are being raised by your parents too, because of the lessons that they gave you that are sticking with people that have watched you that you may never meet in person ever. But they know your story and your life story and how God has worked

your life, your challenges, all for the good that you know that we’re obviously seeing today? Is there anything Brother Ronnie, Brother Rowel that you would like to tell your parents? I mean, now that you know, your stories out? And is there anything that you’d like to tell them in hindsight now that you are full-fledged Ministers and grown adults and grown men about just the impact that they’ve had on your life as far as raising you the way that they did?

Brother Rowel David: Would you want me to go first Ronnie, are you?

Brother Ronnie David: You go first.

Brother Rowel David: Well, first I just want to say before I think then I just want to say thank you to the Church Administration and this podcast, because it’s giving us this kind of opportunity. You know, growing up, we being children of deaf adults, we don’t always have someone that we can, you know… that communication barrier is tough. And so we don’t always have that opportunity to be able to express our feelings and emotions. But then through something like this, you’re giving us an opportunity to be able to really say thank you. You know, we’ve never really done this,

when it comes to our parents, until it means a lot to be able to actually do it. And so for Mom and Dad, thank you. Thank you for the example that you gave us.

You know, that one of the questions that the brethren asked earlier was, you know, how was it that you were able to raise two boys to be able to become ministers? And I know, you know, for everyone that’s watching, you know, if you notice my mom, and dad, they didn’t really answer the questions directly. But that’s just because that, you know, even when it came to raising us, they never raised… I guess, I guess we’ll say they never raised us directly. It was always indirect with what they were teaching us. You know, it was always that example, that example about prayer. It was when we were young, we were one, two years old. That’s how we were all… she was already teaching us that, that example that she gave us. So you know, if there’s anything I could say, it’s just really thank you for being the best example that we have.

Because everything we do now, everything we are, it’s because of the example that you gave us. And so thank you. You know, even though we’re in the Holy Ministry and we may not always be able to be together. But just like what you always taught us, we know that God is always taking care of you. So I just want to say thank you for always teaching that. Thank you, mom.

Brother Ronnie David: Hey mom and dad, thanks for letting me be your son.

You know, it’s funny. Yeah. Hi, mom. You know, it’s funny. This is me talking to you right now mom and dad. Our life has been so simple this whole time, just to remind you how simple it was. She just wanted to see us. And I know my mom, she wasn’t mad at me that we weren’t spending time. We went a whole week together. And we ate together one time. Not even at home, we didn’t have dinner or breakfast or anything. We went out one time to eat because I was just so busy performing my duty. That’s exactly what she wanted to see. She’d never complained the whole time.

Even though we’ve seen each other nowadays is once in a moment, you can even say once in a lifetime. And even nowadays, whenever I’m preaching, I always think about the younger ones. And I want the Kadiwa and Binhi, the younger generation to really, really take our membership seriously. We only get this life once. We only have one chance. And whenever I preach, whenever I think about them, I always think about what my mom would say to me, what my dad would do for me. Because it really did stick in my heart. And for some of them that are going through problems with their kids, or problems with their parents, and my families come to me and say we’re having problems with each other. I tried to tell them just take it back, take it slow.

You got to sit back and realize God is doing something for you. Because even till now, even though I’m a full-fledged Minister, even though I have my own local, I’ve been part of the district. My mom still takes her time to message me every once in a while and say, ‘Hey, did you eat anything today?’ Did you get enough sleep? Did you get a drink? And my mother, I just want to say thank you so much for teaching me that.

I’m so thankful that I can live my life inside the church. And that it could have went bad really fast. It could have went the wrong way. And I’m growing up now where I see a lot of my friends aren’t with me. They don’t hold on to their membership. Unfortunately, some of them let it go. And their parents said everything they could to them and they didn’t listen. I’m so thankful you didn’t say that much. And I’ve never forgot. And I just hope I can be like that to my kids one day. Because sometimes I’m scared when I see this life has to offer to younger people. And if younger people are already going through such a hard time. How can I take care of my kids? What if I don’t have the words to help them get through what they’re going through or even stick to their faith but you mom, dad, like you need to say much. But here we are now. And I hope I can be good parents that you are to me and Rowel. And I beg God to He’ll continue to strengthen you too because until now, you’re still my inspiration, mom, dad. You still remind us of what we need to do. I thank God that He blessed us with parents like you.

Raquel David: Thank you very much. Thank you for telling all these stories. I’m truly grateful and very happy that my sons are also here today, being together with them.

I know I’m gonna cry again. God bless both of you. God bless. You stay strong, and we’re very proud of you. Thank God

Aliw Pablo: This was one of those interviews where we just didn’t want it to end. It’s an interview I’ll never forget.

Special thanks to the David family for this life changing experience for anyone who has been moved by their life story and immovable faith. Thanks, Rose Gullermo, our ESL translation. And for still patiently helping us in this whole CODA series. And a special shout out to Jojo and Diana Gallevo who are the voice dubs for Ramon and Raquel David.

Well, we hope that you enjoy this episode and please share it with anyone you know who could use some hope and faithful stories like this today. That wraps up Season 2 of Making Changes. Thanks for listening and watching and just being part of the story with us for this Growing up CODA series. We’ll be back in a few months with a new season. Meanwhile, be sure to follow us on our making changes podcast Instagram account, and we would greatly appreciate it if you could leave us a review wherever you get our podcast.

Making Changes is hosted by me and co-produced and co-written with Michelle Beretta, edited by Mike Bigayan and Christine Affenir. Original music by Lauren Santos and Daniel Quitalig. Graphic design by Jason Salazar and Doctrinal guidance by Brother Joe Velazquez.

Thanks for listening, and may your change uplift you.

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Raising CODA

Aliw Pablo: Hi Hershey, how are you?

Hershey Cruz: I’m good. How are you?

Aliw Pablo: I’m good. I’m good. I’m so glad that you agreed to do this with us. But you know…

Aliw Pablo: This is Hershey. A wife and a mom of two beautiful kids, and a very close family friend of ours. And since meeting the David family from our episodes on growing up CODA or children of deaf adults, hearing their story made me think about Hershey. And here’s why.

Hershey Cruz: I am currently deaf, that’s how I identify. But I was not born deaf. I was born with perfect hearing. I’ve been a choir member since I was 8 years old. It wasn’t until my mid to late 20s when I noticed the change in the way I heard and understood sounds.

Aliw Pablo: We’ve heard from so many of you since our Growing up CODA episodes. Thank you so much for your comments and feedback. We heard a lot from moms and how it resonated with you. Well, today on this bonus episode, we’re talking about raising CODA. We’ll introduce you to Hershey, who’s in the same shoes as Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel’s mom, Raquel. We’ll hear about the challenges of being a mother with hearing loss. We’ll get an inside look at the deep struggles of what it’s like to raise kids as a deaf mom today. And how meeting the David family and our ASL interpreter Rose Guillermo has completely changed her perspective on her new normal, which is a completely silent world, and sometimes a lonely world.

Hershey Cruz: People would call me from across the street. So they would go up to me, “Hey, I was trying to call you but you didn’t hear me.” I said, “You were? No, I didn’t hear you at all.” You know, so during that time, people just thought I was always daydreaming. I was…

Aliw Pablo: From INC Media Audio, you’re listening to Making Changes. A podcast about changes we go through and the life lessons we learned along the way, but always with God by our side. I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo.

Aliw Pablo: Today’s episode is Hershey’s story. She grew up hearing but with no medical explanation. She began to slowly lose her hearing until finally a few years ago, everything went completely silent.

Hershey Cruz: What I was telling God in my prayer was how will I get through that situation if I can’t hear your words of advice during the worship service?…

Aliw Pablo: She’s still able to speak but she can’t hear herself speak. Just a note though, today we’re talking to Hershey through Rose, our ASL interpreter. And in case you have a hard time understanding Hershey as a podcast, feel free to watch the video version on the INC media app complete with subtitles in sign language. Oh, and in case you haven’t seen Growing up Coda parts one and two yet, there may be some spoiler alerts towards the end of this podcast. Heads up. So come meet Hershey.

Hershey Cruz: Eventually, I started feeling like something was wrong, but I didn’t relate to hearing loss. I thought it was my brain.

Aliw Pablo: Then one morning she woke up and she felt like she was wearing permanent earplugs. When she would talk she could barely hear the sound of her voice. Then a specialist confirmed it. Her hearing loss was only getting worse until finally, she could no longer hear her husband Clint’s voice or her children’s voices. But there was one thing that truly frightened her.

Hershey Cruz: I think one of the most painful things to accept about my hearing loss was at that time was not being able to hear the hymns in the worship service. And not being able to understand the minister while he’s preaching.

Aliw Pablo: For a while she thought that maybe sitting in the front row would help her read the minister’s lips in the worship services.

Hershey Cruz: I tried my best, I was looking at the choir, I was looking at the minister. And you know, I closed my eyes. And I really felt like I was in almost, I was in an almost empty room, because I could barely make anything out. So I remember sitting there and I was crying in my seat. And I took advantage of that hour of sitting there in silence to pray. And I really remember this so clearly, I was crying because I really wanted to be a part of the worship service but not being able to hear anymore. I just felt so separated, you know, but in my prayer, I was telling God if I never hear my family again, I’m okay with it. It’s okay. I’ll accept that. But how am I supposed to live if I can’t, if I can’t hear the words like, you know, when we attend the worship service, that’s where we get our source of strength and inspiration. So what I was telling God in my prayer is how will I get through this situation, if I can’t hear your words of advice during the worship service, because it’s what makes me strong. So I finally said in my prayer. If this is your will, please give me peace of mind about it. Because right now, I’m just not peaceful. I don’t know what to do.

Hershey Cruz: But I continued to worship with my family, knowing that my faith always brought me to worship and I know that God knew what was going on. And I just had to trust that whatever was happening, there was a part of a bigger picture that I didn’t know at that time, and I just have to trust that.

Aliw Pablo: And just like Ramon and Raquel David, Hershey worshiped relying solely on the Holy Spirit. And just like how the 95th anniversary was pivotal for the David couple. For Hershey, it was the video stream worship services with our Executive Minister Brother Eduardo Manalo, that gave her so much hope and lifted up her spirits.

Hershey Cruz: And when the closed captioning came up, in other words, the subtitles, I was so happy because that was the first time ever, in a long time, that I would be able to completely understand by reading the caption. What caught me by surprise was in the corner of the TV, I saw a sign language interpreter, a brother interpreting and I thought to myself, wow, you know, the Church Administration, they are providing Interpreters for the deaf. You know, whoever’s watching and whoever is deaf can benefit from that lesson from the Executive Minister. So I thought to myself, it was like an ‘aha moment.’ Maybe if I learn sign language, in the future, I can request for an interpreter in the worship service.

Hershey Cruz: So after that moment, after that service, I started to look up the ABCs on YouTube. And started learning slowly, you know, and moving forward after that, and my local started learning with me. A lot of the brethren started learning sign languages with me to help me, to show their love and support for me. And since then CSD was established in my district. And now I’m getting sign language interpretation every worship service.

Aliw Pablo: Wanting to learn ASL opened up a whole new world for Hershey, especially since it was becoming more and more difficult for her to communicate with her family and to just be a mom. And the everyday things of just knowing her children’s everyday needs became a struggle.

Hershey Cruz: I remember when I first started learning sign language there was about maybe it was five years ago, and my daughter was only five. She was crying because she was trying to tell me something. And I remember I just couldn’t hear her. And she just started crying. And finally, I was able to comprehend that she was trying to tell me and that she wants to buy pencils at school. During this time, I’ve already learned sign language together. So I thought it was also a moment of truth for her because she realized she needs to, she needs to sign, she needs to learn with me. Because that’s the only way to communicate with me at that point. The biggest challenge as a mom, not being able to hear them, especially when they’re sick, for example, like my son was sick, and he wakes up in the middle of the night crying. And my husband has to wake me up. Because he doesn’t want dad, he wants mom. And I can never hear them crying. You know, that they need my help. They’re in another room. Someone has to get me. I don’t know, I still identify myself as a hearing person sometimes. And over the years I had to learn that I had to change that. Because I am not a hearing person anymore. I cannot hear ambulances. I cannot hear the fire trucks. And I remember there was this one time I was driving and I remember I looked in my rearview mirror and my daughter said, “Mom, look outside!” And I’m like, Oh, there’s this fire truck right next to me. And he was getting so angry with me because I did not get out of the way. I was the only person in the lane.

Aliw Pablo: And with her son Colin who’s on the autism spectrum and his nonverbal, learning and knowing ASL has been a game changer for her.

Hershey Cruz: I remember there’s one instance where we were in the kitchen and he was trying to tell me something. And I said, “Colin, I can’t hear you. I’m sorry.” You know I was trying to explain to him. But he went in front of me and he said(making hand motion) Oh, You want a cookie? Hold on, I’m going to get you a cookie.” And he said “yes. I want a cookie!” (signing) Now he can sign basic things like that. So even with me and him, it’s really, our relationship is really challenging, but also a learning experience for both of us until he realizes that I can’t hear him. Those are the challenges I face as a mom.

Aliw Pablo: Well, first off, I want to, I want to raise my hat off to you because that is what you deal with on a daily basis. We can only imagine how tough it must be but yet, looking at you, you know, you’ve all, I’ve known you for many years, and you’ve always had such a positive outlook, you know, on life and always with a beautiful smile. So you’re a mom with a son? How did the Growing up CODA episodes when you watched it, what went through your mind? And how did you feel?

Hershey Cruz: Well, first of all, five years ago, when I started my deaf journey and learning sign language, I remember texting you. “Do you know anyone in the church who is going through what I’m going through, like the deaf community in the church?” And you told me, “Yes, I do. Sister Rose from New York. She was raised by deaf parents.” I remember texting her. And I remember telling her that I am losing my hearing and I need to learn sign language. And she started telling me that oh, you know, I’ve worked for, I’ve worked with deaf and the blind. You work with deaf and blind? What? You know already in my heart. You know, me going through challenges but there’s other people in this world who are going through bigger challenges than me and she was telling me stories about it. And then she went on to tell me about there’s a deaf couple in Georgia who are deacon and deaconess. And they’re very active. They don’t have an interpreter for many years now but they’re so active, they continue on in their faith. And right now their sons are in the ministry. Really! I have so many questions in my head. Because you know, how do you navigate as a deaf couple raising two hearing sons and then they’re now ministers. You know me from me, I have two little kids that I’m still learning as a parent, not just as a parent, but as a deaf parent. So knowing this story, that there’s another family out there who has been through it longer than I have, it really inspired me.

Aliw Pablo: And that’s how she met the David family. God began to give her people to help her on this new journey, a new chapter in her life. It gave her hope and guidance, and how to raise her kids as a deaf mom.

Hershey Cruz: And I remember whenever people asked me how, how did you get through your hearing loss and I would always mention that God, sends me people to help me to overcome and the David family was one of the families that really made me see that you do not need to hear to be able to feel God. And I remember finally meeting their mom, I was able to get her phone number and I video chatted. And she’s such an awesome, down to earth individual. And I told her that I just lost my hearing and I’m still learning and she would teach me signs and she was so patient with me and we would chat through the years. They also told me stories about how their mom had paint that big picture about how God’s eyes are big. You know, having two little kids I always wondered how am I supposed to teach my children, you know? I’m still learning. When you use sign language, and you paint the kind of picture with your hands, it’s very impactful because you use your hands, you use your space to show your child. You use your facial expressions, you don’t use your voice, but they see you paint this big picture about how God can see everything. You know and that’s exactly how I’ve been trying to teach my daughter too so their parents set an example for me through the years just by knowing those stories.

Hershey Cruz: So you know, when I watched the CODA video, you know, I only got bits and pieces from the David brothers five years ago. Bits and pieces but when I saw both episodes of the CODA series I was just amazed because I did not know the full story. And not only did they have to overcome so much as a deaf couple by raising two sons but they had to struggle. They struggle living in America, living in a hearing world, and not being able to have anyone to talk to, not being able to communicate, and knowing that the mom and dad, the mom and dad (were) able to navigate through this, and they made it look so effortless.

Aliw Pablo: Yes.

Hershey Cruz: They did not use their disability as an excuse to not be able to do anything; they did everything they possibly could. And every aspect of their life, you know, financially, teaching the children, just everything working hard.

Aliw Pablo: Which part in the both episodes do you think hit you the hardest?

Hershey Cruz: There are many parts. One about, one of the things that David brothers mentioned was just feeling, crying during the worship service and feeling the Holy Spirit and the kids were wondering why are they crying? You know, sometimes I don’t hear, sometimes I don’t have an interpreter when I go to church, right? But it’s what you feel in your heart. It’s not just about the interpreter, but it’s about the Holy Spirit you feel in your heart. And I really, that was very relatable to me. Very relatable to me. And also, I think it was when they were explaining how the parents sold their house just to provide for them in the ministry and they just had no idea. You guys sold the house? What? You know, I can’t even imagine the hardship they were going through. It was so touching.

Aliw Pablo: And just like how Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel were there for their parents. Hershey’s daughter Caitlin has been her liaison to the world.

Hershey Cruz: And you know, I always tell stories when people ask me about my daughter because when we’re out, she is my interpreter. Right now she loves that I’m not sure how she will do in the future. But right now she loves interpreting for me. But at times when I’m by myself and especially during the pandemic, I have to wear a mask and I can’t see if people are talking to me, I just can’t. So what I did is I ordered a pin that says I’m deaf and I have it attached to my bag or have it somewhere where if I see them, if I see that person I’m talking to, I point to it.

Aliw Pablo: And I want to know how much of a help has Sister Rose been to you in your life because she’s the first person in the church that you met as far as in the deaf community in the church. I know you share a special bond.

Hershey Cruz: Well, Sister Rose is so very, very special to me because I will tell you right now she is my first sign language teacher. So I remember contacting Sister Rose. Sister Rose I don’t have any idea, I don’t know if I can understand. So she’s…knowing Sister Rose she said, calm down first of all. You’ll get through it. It’s gonna take time. She was teaching me one by one each individual read. And then by the end of that session, I realized that she was teaching me Doxology! From the very moment I met her when I first met her she’s always just been so helpful. And she introduced me to her parents.

(Video of video chatting)

Aliw Pablo: But I have a question. And I don’t know Ka Rose, if this is a technical question, but is it common for people like Hershey, they can lose their hearing but they can still speak or for some when they lose their hearing they also lose their speech.

Rose Guillermo: So this question is for me?

Aliw Pablo: Yes, it’s for you. Since you’re the expert.

Rose Guillermo: My father was born deaf. He can never voice. He never knew anything about voicing, he can call me “ost” instead of “Rose” and cannot pronounce it. I have to touch his neck, let his hand touch my neck. Rose, I wouldn’t try to feel the vibration sound, but he would not be able to do it. So because he was born deaf. But my mom, she can count in Tagalog: Isa, dalawa, tatlo, apat…. She can do that. So it really depends. But with Sister Hershey who lost her hearing at a later time. And she’s already an adult. So she has the ability to voice and that’s why, you know, she can keep that. Actually, it’s an advantage for her to use her voice still. Even though she has hearing loss.

Aliw Pablo: That’s true. Hershey, when you speak, you said you no longer can hear your voice. Do you then just feel the vibration in your neck? Do you feel that?

Hershey Cruz: That’s a good question. I can’t hear my voice at all. And I mean you know sometimes people tell me I’m too loud or too soft. But I have no idea. So sometimes, now at present I understand why other people just want to turn off their voice. Because it’s just easier for me to turn off my voice and sign. But the challenge is I have to use my voice to people because it’ll make communication easier even though I turn it off for my own comfort. I can’t turn it off. No and yeah, I couldn’t.

Aliw Pablo: Do you feel something here? Do you feel even though you can’t hear but do you feel a vibration? No?

Hershey Cruz: I can feel the vibration if I touch my throat. This is the same with my son. What I mean with my son and when we’re attending the worship service, since he has autism he tends to, he tends to blurt things out, right? So, I have to keep my hand near his neck. Because I can’t hear him I will know he’s talking because I feel the vibration. And yeah, that’s a challenge too for me with my son.

Aliw Pablo: We’re so glad that Hershey is still willing to use her voice to communicate and connect with others to create awareness about Deaf culture. As a side note, I was surprised to know that after all these years, Hershey and Rose have yet to meet in person. But it’s obvious that they share a very special bond. What do you think, you know, the name of our show is Making Changes. What do you think was the biggest change in perspective that you had that allowed you to now accept your reality and what God has handed to you?

Hershey Cruz: My biggest change I think the biggest change in me is knowing that the unknown even though it’s scary, trusting God and putting Him first no matter what. I think that was the biggest change in me, because you know, when you’re going through something scary, it’s so hard. It’s so hard to trust. It’s so hard to move forward from the situation. But when you really pray hard, and you ask God for guidance, and He shows you things that you’ve never seen before, He shows you miracles in your life that has never happened to you before. It really shifts our perspective with just not trusting what you know. Not looking at the scary thing that’s in front of you. But just looking ahead. This is good for you. And you’ll find out later why. But if you ask God to take away that fear, He’ll take it away. And He did. And that’s all fear is. It’s something that you want to keep because you don’t know what else to do. But when God takes that away, even though your situation is exactly the same? You’re happy. And that is something that I’ve always carried with me and realized through my own experience that God is the One who gives you peace of mind if you ask.

Aliw Pablo: Yeah, you have all these extended family members now in your life.

Hershey Cruz: Yes, and I remember I started with you Sister Aliw because you are the one who connected me to Sister Rose who connected it to Davids, who connected me to everything, you know. If it wasn’t for my locale at that time in Irvine, if they did not jump at the chance of learning Sign language with me… they helped me to immerse even though we’re all beginners. They helped me to immerse, they sat with me in the sign language section and little by little you know, I was picking up church signs, I was able to understand 70% of the lessons and it became 80. And right now it’s up to 99% now.

Aliw Pablo: What is the difference between that Hershey that was first given that diagnosis to who you are today?

Hershey Cruz: I would say back then, I was just scared. I was constantly scared, I was constantly hiding. I remember telling my husband at one point, “Clint, you know what, I can kind of hear your voice now. But one day, there might be a time where I will not hear your voice anymore.” And I told him that was one of my biggest fear. And it happened. But by the time it happened and I couldn’t hear his voice anymore, sign language started to be more frequent in my life. And CSD started in my local (congregation), and God just did so many things, so many people to just take away that fear, for people just constantly gave me guidance. What became one of the scariest moments of my life became my biggest blessing. You know, you would think that, oh, you know, people would look at me and say, “Oh, I’m so sorry, you lost your hearing.” Maybe at that time when I first lost it, I would probably be okay, yeah, me too. But now, I can’t even regret that I lost my hearing. I’m just so thankful that I did because I met so many wonderful people, so many inspiring people. And at the same time you have that… I have that happiness too in my heart that you know, when people tell me that I’ve helped them in some way overcome theirs (challenges). And that is something that I’m also thankful for if my challenge became someone’s strength, just as the David family was my strength, then everything I had to overcome was worth it.

Aliw Pablo: “Everything I had to overcome was worth it.” she said. You know, I’m just in awe of Hershey’s strength and her positive perspective, despite the challenges that she faces every day. And you know, there is a glimmer in Hershey’s eyes when she speaks. I could feel the inner peace in her like never before and I thought this is what answered prayers look like. Thank you, Hershey, for sharing your story with us. And thank you to her mentors, the David family, and Sister Rose for helping guide her through all these years. It really is a small world, isn’t it? Well, we hope that Hershey’s story brought you peace and hope and dealing with whatever challenges you’re going through today. And be sure to share this episode with a friend who could use Hershey’s story to lift them up. And by the way, stay tuned for growing up CODA Part Three coming soon. You don’t want to miss our season finale. I’m so excited for you guys to hear part three. So be sure to follow us on our Instagram account at Making Changes podcast so you will know when part three drops. Thanks for listening and may your change uplift you.

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