Courier Conversations: Recent Episodes
Rudy Gray and Todd Deaton
This Podcast of Courier Conversations will be a conversation of topics with a variety of guests that concern, inspire and inform Christians about current events Worldwide. We hope you'll find our stories informing and encouraging in your daily walk with Christ.
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A lot of churches have deacons. Far fewer have a clear, biblical vision for what deacons actually do. We sit down with Dr. Tony Wolfe—Executive Director-Treasurer for the South Carolina Baptist Convention and first author in our Courier Publishing 1821 line—to reframe the deacon’s office around four essentials that change how a church lives: lead by example, serve the people, support the pastor and staff, and protect the peace.
Tony shares how a simple, practical training he created in 2017 grew into a globally used resource and now a revised, expanded book designed for any church size. We explore Acts 6 as the prototype for deacons, why unity in John 17 is mission-critical, and how 1 Timothy 3 should be read as character in motion, not a one-time checklist. We also get honest about the “deacon board” problem—how corporate language formed corporate habits—and why shifting to “deacon body” helps restore an organic, relational, service-first culture.
You’ll hear step-by-step counsel for pastors navigating de facto elder-deacons, including why changing documents without changing culture backfires, how to win buy‑in through relationships, and what a year of meaningful deacon training can look like in monthly meetings or an annual retreat. We get practical on conflict too: deacons as early responders who defuse tensions before they explode, applying Matthew 18 with wisdom, and keeping the congregation’s peace as a precious, fragile asset that amplifies witness.
Along the way, Tony highlights robust appendices—encouraging your pastor, passing the torch, caring for widows and orphans, and a thoughtful treatment of deacons and deaconesses. If you’re ready to move from managing meetings to mobilizing servants, this conversation gives you language, frameworks, and next steps you can use this month.
If this helped you, follow the show, share it with a fellow leader, and leave a quick review so more churches can find it. Then tell us: which of the four essentials will you focus on first?
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A lot of people feel the cultural ground shifting and want a faster fix. We explore a different path with Dr. Hunter Baker—one rooted in Baptist history, biblical ecclesiology, and a hard-won vision of religious liberty that helped shape the American constitutional order. We talk candidly about why Christian nationalism is attracting younger men, how state-church fusion looks powerful but weakens doctrine over time, and why a free church holds its nerve best when public pressure rises.
We trace the Baptist distinctives that matter here: believers’ baptism, congregational governance, and the conviction that coerced faith isn’t faith. That theological core leads to a civic stance—keep church and state institutionally separate so the church can preach, disciple, and, when necessary, correct the state. Along the way, we revisit what “liberalism” originally meant: liberty under law, free speech, free press, and limited government—an ecosystem where the gospel can persuade rather than be policed. We contrast Europe’s state-church legacy with America’s free-church vitality, and we wrestle with Obergefell-era conscience conflicts, where the question isn’t who wins a headline but whether the state will force Christians to commit impious acts.
Patriotism gets its due, too. Gratitude for a nation that helped defeat totalitarianism is right and good; worship of the nation is not. We draw practical lines between civic love and idolatry, clarify the two domains—sword of steel for the state, sword of the Spirit for the church—and offer a sane, principled definition of Christian nationalism so the term isn’t a catchall insult. By the end, you’ll have a clearer framework for faithful citizenship, resilient churches, and a public witness that refuses both coercion and retreat.
If this conversation helps you think more clearly about church, state, and conscience, subscribe, share the show with a friend, and leave a five-star review to help others find us.
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What if the strain so many churches feel isn’t from weak people but from worn-out structures? We sit down with Phil Newton and Rich Shadden, co-authors of Mending the Net: Rethinking Church Leadership, to explore how biblical polity—rooted in a plurality of elders and distinct deacon service—repairs the holes that exhaust pastors, confuse authority, and limit pastoral care. Drawing from Scripture and Baptist history, we unpack why elders/pastors/overseers are one office, how deacons support the ministry of the Word, and why this model strengthens accountability, guards against personality-driven ministry, and scales care to meet real needs across a congregation.
Together we trace the decline of elder plurality in the last century and recover evidence from confessions and association minutes that show this approach was common among earlier Baptists. Phil and Rich make a practical, pastor-tested case: elder leadership within congregationalism is not elder rule; it’s shepherding under Christ and with the church’s oversight. We walk through the distinctions between elders and deacons, the benefits of parity and shared responsibility, and how multiple shepherds bring diverse gifts—preaching, counseling, administration—into a unified team that keeps the Word central.
For pastors and members ready to act, we lay out a patient roadmap: teach the Bible’s pattern across the pulpit, classes, and conversations; invest in faithful men as a pipeline for future elders; and implement changes carefully through bylaws and transparent processes. Whether you’re leading a church with a long single-pastor tradition or planting with plurality from day one, this conversation offers clarity, courage, and concrete steps to build healthier churches for the long haul.
If this episode helped you rethink leadership, subscribe, share it with your team, and leave a review so others can find it. Then tell us: what part of your church’s structure needs mending first?
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A wave of headlines brought Mormonism back into the spotlight, so we pressed pause on our usual format and sat down with Travis Kearns to map the LDS system from the ground up. We start where everything begins for Latter-day Saints—authority—noting how the King James Bible sits alongside the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and, crucially, “continuing revelation” from living prophets. When newer words can overrule older ones, the result is a timeline of truth where the latest General Conference talk carries the most weight. That lens reframes every doctrine that follows.
From there we explore the LDS view of God and creation: Elohim as an exalted man of flesh and bone, Heavenly Mother, and a universe of many gods ruling their own “spheres.” Creation isn’t out of nothing but the organizing of eternal matter. We contrast that with historic Christian teaching on God’s uncreated, eternal nature and creation ex nihilo. Then we walk step by step through LDS salvation—faith, repentance, baptism by immersion, laying on of hands for the Holy Ghost, sacrament, tithing, temple marriage, temple work, obedience to the Word of Wisdom—and how “grace after all we can do” aims not merely at forgiveness but at exaltation in the celestial kingdom. The famous Lorenzo Snow couplet frames the aspiration: “As man is now, God once was; as God is now, man may be.”
We also open the hood on LDS leadership and life: the President/Prophet, First Presidency, Quorum of the Twelve, stakes and wards, lay-led worship with short talks, and why priesthood authority is the backbone of belonging. We clarify polygamy’s 1890 end for the mainline church, note the many fundamentalist breakaway groups, and outline LDS last-days expectations—including the very practical habit of home food and water storage. Finally, we offer a gracious way to engage missionaries: point to Jesus as our once-for-all great high priest and sole mediator who makes earthly priesthoods and temples unnecessary, and let the gospel’s finished work do what it always does—save.
If this deep dive helped you think clearly and speak kindly, follow the show, share this episode with a friend, and leave a quick review so more listeners can find it. Have a question or a story from your own LDS conversations? Send it our way and join the dialogue.
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A moment of public forgiveness stunned millions and reminded us of something ancient: grace is not cheap, sentimental, or soft on justice. We sat down to unpack why forgiveness sits at the heart of the Christian gospel, how Scripture frames it, and what it demands of us when wounds feel unhealable. From 1 Corinthians 15 to Matthew 18, we trace the Bible’s logic of mercy—penal substitution, the release of personal debt, and the call to forgive “seventy times seven”—and we talk honestly about how hard that is without the Spirit’s help.
We don’t blur categories. Forgiveness and reconciliation are related but not identical. You can release someone from personal debt even if they never repent, while reconciliation requires truth, repentance, and rebuilt trust. We explore why civil consequences remain, how to live at peace “so far as it depends on you,” and what it looks like to refuse revenge while still pursuing justice. Along the way, we remember historical examples—from church shootings to missionary martyrs—where grace interrupted the cycle of vengeance and made the gospel visible to a watching world.
This conversation moves from headline moments to daily discipleship: marriages strained by betrayal, friendships bent by slander, and church conflicts that test our witness. We offer a practical, Scripture-shaped path to forgive from the heart, pray for offenders, and keep our eyes on Christ who forgave us first. If you’re wrestling with whether forgiveness is naïve or necessary, you’ll find clarity, courage, and hope here.
If this resonates, follow the show, leave a five-star review, and share this episode with someone who needs encouragement to choose grace today.
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What does biblical church leadership look like? In this thought-provoking episode of Courier Conversations, host Jeff Robinson sits down with veteran pastors Phil Newton and Rich Shadden to discuss their new book "Mending the Nets: Rethinking Church Leadership" published by Courier Publishing.
The conversation dives deep into the biblical foundation for elder plurality in Baptist churches—a practice that may surprise many modern Southern Baptists but actually has deep historical roots in Baptist life. Newton, who served as a pastor for over four decades and now mentors pastors through the Pillar Network, explains how the metaphor of "mending nets" applies to church leadership: many churches have good leadership components but need biblical realignment rather than complete reconstruction.
Shadden, senior pastor at Park Avenue Church in Memphis since 2011, offers compelling reasons for why God prescribes plurality in church leadership: it maximizes pastoral care, prevents personality-centered ministry, and provides essential accountability. Together, they tackle common objections and questions: Aren't elders just a Presbyterian concept? If we have deacons, why do we need elders? How do multiple elders work alongside a senior pastor?
Most valuable for church leaders are the practical insights on implementing elder plurality in churches with different traditions. Newton and Shadden emphasize patience, consistent biblical teaching, and intentional development of qualified men—a process that might take years but yields healthier churches and sustainable ministry. Their wisdom comes not from theory but from having successfully navigated these transitions in their own pastoral contexts.
Whether you're a pastor considering this leadership model, a church member curious about biblical church governance, or someone interested in Baptist history and theology, this conversation provides both theological depth and practical guidance. Subscribe to Courier Conversations for more discussions that inform and inspire Baptists and beyond.
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Baptist historian Dr. Tom Nettles joins Courier Conversations to share the story behind his newest book, "Baptist History for Kids" – a beautifully illustrated journey through Baptist heritage designed to help children understand their theological roots.
Drawing from over four decades of experience teaching at institutions like Southwestern Seminary and Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Dr. Nettles brings his scholarly expertise to a format accessible for young readers. The book, featuring stunning artwork by his son Robert Nettles, covers fundamental questions: What does "Baptist" mean? How did Baptists begin? What do Baptists believe and do? Who are some significant Baptists throughout history?
During our conversation, Dr. Nettles shares how his earlier groundbreaking works "Baptists and the Bible" and "By His Grace and For His Glory" helped establish that Baptist commitment to biblical inerrancy and Reformed soteriology weren't recent innovations but reflected the denomination's historic foundations. This new book extends that mission to the next generation.
What sets this resource apart is its unflinching portrayal of the cost many early Baptists paid for their convictions. Through stories of figures like Obadiah Holmes, who was publicly whipped for his Baptist beliefs, children learn that theological distinctives like believers' baptism by immersion weren't held cheaply but represented deeply-held biblical convictions worth suffering for.
The book highlights familiar Baptist giants like Spurgeon and Bunyan alongside lesser-known figures such as George Lyle, a freed slave who became an effective missionary, and John Jasper, whose preaching gifts were so extraordinary that his master freed him to preach more widely. Dr. Nettles also discusses South Carolina's central role in Baptist history, from establishing the first Baptist association in the South to providing key leadership in forming the Southern Baptist Convention.
Whether you're a parent wanting to nurture your child's denominational identity or someone curious about Baptist roots, this conversation illuminates why understanding our theological heritage matters in an increasingly anti-denominational age. As Dr. Nettles reminds us, Baptist history represents not just cultural tradition but theological conviction worth preserving and passing down.
Ready to help your children discover their Baptist heritage? Find "Baptist History for Kids" at courierpublishing.com or on Amazon today.
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What does it mean to be Baptist in today's polarized religious landscape? Can strong theological convictions coexist with genuine kindness toward those who disagree? Nate Akin believes they not only can but must go together.
In this thought-provoking conversation, Nate unpacks the framework of his book "Convictional, Confessional, Cheerful Baptists," revealing how our theological commitments should shape both what we believe and how we engage with others. As executive director of the Pillar Network and founder of Baptist 21, Nate brings unique insights into denominational cooperation and Baptist identity.
The discussion explores how the very doctrines of grace many Baptists cherish should make them the most gracious people in theological discussions. "We should mean what we say (convictional), say what we mean (confessional), and say what we mean without being mean (cheerful)," Nate explains, cutting to the heart of his message.
Particularly compelling is Nate's candid admission that his book partly stems from battling his own tendencies toward theological arrogance. If salvation truly comes by unmerited grace, shouldn't that produce humility rather than haughtiness in our doctrinal positions?
Beyond personal application, the conversation addresses why denominational distinctives matter in an age that often dismisses them as irrelevant. Nate makes a compelling case that understanding Baptist identity isn't just about tradition but about how we understand the church's nature and mission in the world.
Whether you're a lifelong Baptist wondering about your denominational roots or someone curious about how theological conviction and Christian charity can work together, this episode offers refreshing insights for navigating faith in a divided world.
Find Nate's book "Convictional, Confessional, Cheerful Baptists" at courierpublishing.com or on Amazon.
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What makes someone truly Baptist? Is it simply family tradition, or are there deeper theological convictions at play? In this thought-provoking episode, Jeff Robinson and Travis Kearns dive into the heart of Baptist identity, challenging the common notion that most people identify as Baptist merely because "that's how I was raised."
The conversation explores the foundational Baptist distinctive of believers' baptism by immersion and why this practice matters theologically. Robinson and Kearns skillfully dismantle arguments for infant baptism, examining how Baptist understanding of baptism connects to regenerate church membership and a biblical view of covenant signs. Their biblical analysis of Romans 2:25-29 reveals how physical circumcision corresponds to spiritual heart change rather than physical baptism, contradicting common Reformed arguments.
Beyond baptism, the hosts trace Baptist origins to English Puritan separatism in the 17th century, positioning Baptist emergence as a continuation of the Reformation into matters of ecclesiology. They highlight South Carolina's significant historical importance in Baptist life and discuss how Baptist identity encompasses four key principles: orthodoxy, evangelicalism, integrated ecclesiology, and confessionalism.
The discussion takes on added relevance in light of recent high-profile departures from Baptist life to Anglican or Catholic traditions, with the hosts cautioning against reading Scripture through the lens of church history rather than the other way around. Their passionate defense of Baptist distinctives demonstrates why these theological positions remain compelling in an age that often dismisses denominational differences.
Tune in to our upcoming series on denominations, where we'll explore why denominational identity matters in today's anti-authority culture and explain the unique structure of the Southern Baptist Convention. Subscribe, leave a review, and join the conversation about what it means to embrace Baptist identity with biblical conviction rather than mere tradition.
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What happens when religious faith directly impacts political governance? In our latest deep dive, we examine the surprising rise of Zoran Mamdani, the 33-year-old Democrat who openly identifies as both socialist and communist while now standing as the nominee for mayor of America's financial capital.
Our co-host Travis Kearns brings his extensive expertise in world religions to unpack the profound implications of Mamdani's Twelver Shiite Muslim background—the same branch that governs Iran. We explore how this specific Islamic worldview might shape governance approaches in New York City, from economic policies to social structures. Quoting directly from Karl Marx's communist principles and advocating for government-controlled businesses, Mamdani represents a fascinating case study in how personal faith influences public policy.
The conversation moves beyond simple political analysis to examine what Christians living under different governmental systems should consider. Drawing from Romans 13 and the writings of Francis Schaeffer, we discuss the biblical framework for engaging with authorities while maintaining spiritual integrity. Whether you're interested in politics, religious studies, or the intersection of worldviews, this episode offers thoughtful insights into one of America's most significant mayoral races and its potential ripple effects across the nation. Join us for this timely exploration of faith, governance, and how the two inevitably shape each other in profound ways.
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The recent passing of John MacArthur, one of evangelical Christianity's most influential voices, has left a profound void in pastoral leadership. Over 50 years of faithful ministry at Grace Community Church in Southern California, MacArthur revolutionized expository preaching for an entire generation of pastors. In this heartfelt conversation, Jeff Robinson and Travis Kearns reflect on MacArthur's extraordinary legacy and the broader concept of ministry heroes.
Jeff shares how MacArthur shaped his preaching from age 17 through the Grace to You tape ministry, calling him "the most important expositor among evangelicals the last 50 years." Both hosts recount personal encounters with MacArthur, emphasizing his surprising graciousness and warmth despite his reputation for boldness in the pulpit. This juxtaposition of theological conviction with personal kindness exemplifies what many consider the ideal pastoral temperament.
The discussion deepens as they explore whether Christians should have ministry heroes at all. Drawing from biblical examples like Paul and Timothy, they conclude that having heroes is appropriate when kept in proper perspective – looking to them as they follow Christ. The hosts vulnerably share their own ministry heroes, from internationally known figures like RC Sproul and Adrian Rogers to lesser-known but equally impactful mentors who shaped their pastoral approach.
MacArthur's direct communication style, sometimes misinterpreted as harshness, is contextualized within Western cultural norms where directness is valued over small talk. Perhaps most compelling is their recounting of MacArthur's ability to disagree theologically without becoming personally disagreeable – a rare skill in today's polarized discourse. Through books like "Ashamed of the Gospel" and "The Gospel According to Jesus," his voice will continue influencing evangelical Christianity for generations to come.
Whether you've followed MacArthur's ministry for decades or are just discovering his impact, this conversation offers valuable perspective on carrying forward a legacy of biblical faithfulness. Subscribe to the Baptist Courier and follow us on social media to join more discussions about the people and ideas shaping evangelical Christianity today.
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As Independence Day approaches, Christians face the perennial question: How should we navigate the relationship between our faith and our national identity? In this thought-provoking conversation, we explore the biblical foundations for a Christian's responsibility toward the state, beginning with the nuanced understanding of Romans 13.
While Paul instructs believers to submit to governing authorities, this submission has clear boundaries. When government demands contradict scripture or conscience, Christians must respectfully dissent. From abortion laws to restrictions on religious gatherings during COVID-19, believers constantly navigate this delicate balance.
The Baptist tradition offers unique insights here, representing what some call the "true Reformers" who pushed beyond Luther and Calvin in separating church and state. This historical perspective reveals two distinct spheres: the church wielding "the sword of the spirit" through gospel proclamation, while the state rightfully wields "the sword of steel" for maintaining justice. Unfortunately, many American Christians have increasingly blurred these distinctions.
We tackle controversial questions head-on: Should churches host patriotic services? Does 2 Chronicles 7:14 apply to modern America? What's the relationship between biblical Israel and the modern nation-state? Through careful biblical examination, we distinguish between appropriate gratitude for our nation and the dangerous conflation of American identity with Christian faith.
Whether you're wrestling with Christian nationalism, wondering about patriotic elements in worship, or seeking to honor both God and country faithfully, this conversation offers biblical guidance for celebrating Independence Day as citizens of heaven living in America.
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The written word has shaped Christian formation since the church began, and in this revealing conversation, Jeff Robinson and Travis Kearns explore how reading remains essential for spiritual growth today.
"Of making many books there is no end," wrote Solomon in Ecclesiastes – not as a criticism of reading itself, but as a caution against making knowledge an idol above God. Even the Apostle Paul, facing death in a Roman prison, requested his books and parchments for comfort and edification. This biblical foundation sets the stage for a discussion about how intentional reading shapes the Christian mind.
Both hosts share their reading origin stories, recounting how J.R.R. Tolkien's works sparked their lifelong love of books around age 12. For many believers, fiction becomes the gateway to deeper theological exploration – whether through C.S. Lewis's allegories or John Grisham's moral dilemmas embedded in courtroom dramas. The conversation reveals how different genres – from presidential biographies to historical accounts of war – expand our understanding of human nature and leadership.
The heart of the episode centers on transformative Christian classics. Bunyan's "Pilgrim's Progress," written from prison by a persecuted Baptist preacher, tops both hosts' must-read lists. Other recommendations include J.C. Ryle's "Holiness," J.I. Packer's "Knowing God," and Calvin's "Institutes" – each offering profound insights into Christian theology and practice. These books don't merely inform; they transform readers through deep engagement with eternal truths.
For those who struggle to find time for reading, the hosts offer practical wisdom: commit to just 10-20 pages daily. This simple discipline, maintained consistently, allows anyone to complete substantial works over time. The minutes we often squander on social media scrolling could instead nourish our souls through intentional reading.
Ready to transform your spiritual life through reading? Begin with Scripture, add a Christian classic, and watch how God uses these written words to shape your heart and mind. Take up and read!
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A thought-provoking examination of biblical authority versus cultural accommodation unfolds as we dive into the New Yorker's recent mini-documentary questioning whether the Southern Baptist Convention can survive without women pastors. We analyze how the video juxtaposes compassionate female leadership against supposedly rigid traditionalism while missing the fundamental theological principles at stake.
The heart of this conversation isn't about personalities or even church growth strategies. Rather, we examine how passages like 1 Timothy 2-3 and Titus 1 have historically informed Southern Baptist understanding of pastoral qualifications. Tom Askell's powerful statement from the documentary perfectly captures the conservative position: "It's God's world. He sets the rules. It's Christ's church. We can't make it up as we go."
We challenge the documentary's narrative by examining real growth numbers from churches committed to biblical authority. While mainline denominations embracing female ordination have experienced significant membership losses over decades, many theologically conservative SBC churches are thriving. Grace Baptist Church in Cape Coral, for example, has nearly doubled its attendance in just four years while maintaining traditional positions on pastoral leadership.
Baptist polity gets special attention as we clarify misconceptions about church autonomy and denominational boundaries. The SBC cannot "remove" churches—it can only determine which congregations maintain "friendly cooperation" with the convention's stated beliefs. This distinction matters tremendously in understanding what's actually happening when messengers from churches with female pastors are unseated.
Looking ahead to the upcoming Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting in Dallas-Fort Worth, we invite you to follow our coverage at baptistcourier.com, where we'll provide timely updates and thoughtful analysis of this ongoing conversation within America's largest Protestant denomination.
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The selection of Pope Leo XIV has captured global attention, prompting three Southern Baptist leaders to examine what this means for evangelicals in this thoughtful episode of Courier Conversations.
Jeff Robinson hosts Dr. Travis Kearns and Dr. Walter Johnson for a candid discussion about the theological implications of papal authority from an evangelical perspective. The conversation centers on a fundamental question: Should evangelicals celebrate the selection of a new Pope, or does the very office itself represent a theological problem?
The team dives deep into Matthew 16—the passage where Jesus tells Peter "on this rock I will build my church"—unpacking why evangelicals reject the Catholic interpretation that establishes papal authority. Dr. Kearns offers a compelling linguistic analysis of the Greek text, arguing that when Jesus says "this rock," he's referring to himself as the foundation, not establishing Peter as the first Pope. This distinction forms the cornerstone of evangelical objections to papal claims.
Historical challenges to papal succession receive equal attention, with the panel highlighting how the concept of papal supremacy developed gradually over centuries rather than existing from the beginning. They discuss problematic periods when multiple competing popes simultaneously claimed authority, raising questions about the Catholic notion of unbroken apostolic succession from Peter to the present day.
While maintaining clear theological boundaries, the conversation acknowledges the practical influence of the papacy on moral and political fronts. The panel reflects on Pope John Paul II's positive role in opposing communism alongside Western leaders and considers how Pope Leo XIV might influence contemporary moral issues where evangelicals and Catholics find common ground.
The discussion concludes with a powerful affirmation that Christ alone stands as the true head of His church—no earthly representative or vicar needed. Tune in to this thought-provoking episode for a balanced exploration of how evangelicals can thoughtfully engage with Catholic traditions while remaining grounded in biblical truth.
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Tired of hearing that theology is only for scholars or that doctrine divides people? This illuminating conversation with Dr. Walter Johnson, retired dean of Christian Studies at North Greenville University, makes a compelling case for why theological understanding matters deeply for every believer.
Dr. Johnson brilliantly distinguishes between merely knowing about God and truly knowing Him, explaining that while "you can know a lot about God without knowing him, I don't think you can know him very well without knowing a lot about him." This insight forms the foundation for a discussion about how theological understanding transforms our relationship with God and shapes faithful Christian living.
The hosts tackle practical challenges of teaching theology in local churches, acknowledging that many believers find the subject intimidating. Rather than announcing a "systematic theology" series that might draw only the pastor's spouse, they suggest creative approaches: teaching through a church's doctrinal statement, comparing Christianity with other religions, or working through theologically-rich books of the Bible. The goal isn't academic knowledge but spiritual transformation.
Perhaps most compelling is the protective function of sound doctrine. Just as Secret Service agents study genuine currency so thoroughly they immediately recognize counterfeits, Christians grounded in biblical truth can readily identify false teaching. As Hosea warned, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"—a sobering reminder of what's at stake when believers neglect theological understanding.
The conversation concludes with each participant sharing books that sparked their theological journeys—from Packer's "Knowing God" to Calvin's "Institutes"—demonstrating how theological reading can transform not just understanding but devotion to God. These personal testimonies reinforce that theology isn't merely academic but deeply practical and spiritually enriching.
Want to deepen your own theological understanding? Subscribe to Courier Conversations on your favorite podcast platform, visit baptistcourier.com for daily content, and consider sharing this episode with someone who might benefit from seeing theology in a new light.
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Doctrinal avoidance has become a disturbing trend in modern churches, exemplified by an Arizona pastor who proudly declared: "I don't do doctrine or theology, it's too divisive. I just love Jesus and love other people."
This episode tackles this theological aversion head-on with Dr. Walter Johnson, retired dean of Christian Studies at North Greenwood University. He expertly dissects why this pastor's statement is fundamentally self-contradictory – the moment someone preaches about Jesus, they're engaging in theology. The question isn't whether you're doing theology, but whether you're doing it well.
We explore the historical roots of anti-intellectualism in American Christianity, tracing how the Second Great Awakening shifted focus from scriptural depth to emotional experience, and how fundamentalism's withdrawal from intellectual engagement created a false association between theological thinking and liberalism. The shift from Jonathan Edwards' substantive preaching to Charles Finney's emotional appeals fundamentally altered how American Christians approach doctrine.
Dr. Johnson offers profound insights: "Truth is divisive – it divides truth from error, right from wrong, and ultimately heaven from hell." Yet this necessary division differs from being divisively argumentative. When Christians lack theological understanding, they remain vulnerable to false teachings, unable to distinguish between the biblical Jesus and counterfeit versions offered by various groups.
The consequences are startling – less than 5% of Christians can articulate the fundamental differences between orthodox Christianity and Mormon theology. Without systematic understanding, believers lack the framework to interpret Scripture coherently or engage with competing worldviews.
Ready to deepen your theological understanding? Join us for part two where we'll explore practical ways to implement systematic theology in your local church. Subscribe now and follow the Baptist Courier for more resources that inform and inspire believers beyond surface-level spirituality.
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The most devastating wildfires in upstate South Carolina history have ravaged more than 13,500 acres, raising profound questions about divine purpose amid suffering. Where exactly is God when natural disasters strike? Why does a good and all-powerful Creator allow earthquakes, hurricanes, and wildfires to devastate communities?
Host Jeff Robinson shares his experience pastoring in Birmingham during America's largest tornado outbreak, when he boldly placed "Where was God?" on the church marquee—drawing hundreds seeking answers to life's most challenging theological question. Co-host Travis Kearns unpacks the philosophical tension articulated by Friedrich Nietzsche: If God is all-good and all-powerful, why does evil exist?
The conversation examines Scripture's anticipation of this question, particularly through Job's experience as the righteous sufferer who lost everything while remaining faithful. We explore how God permits Satan to test Job while maintaining ultimate sovereignty—what Charles Spurgeon called "a lion on a leash." This biblical framework helps us navigate contemporary disasters from recent wildfires to devastating earthquakes.
Romans 8:28 emerges as the theological anchor, promising that "God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God." This doesn't mean disasters themselves are good, but that God mysteriously works through them toward ultimate good for believers. Jesus' response to the Tower of Siloam tragedy further illuminates how we should interpret catastrophic events—not as specific punishment, but as reminders of our mortality and need for repentance.
Rather than questioning God's character when tragedy strikes, this episode invites listeners to recognize divine sovereignty operating beyond human comprehension while finding comfort in God's presence amid life's most challenging storms. The conversation concludes with a powerful call to share the gospel with renewed urgency, knowing tomorrow isn't promised for anyone.
Have you wrestled with God's role in natural disasters? Share your experience or questions with us at conversations@baptistcourier.com.
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A Supreme Court nominee unable to define "woman" and a President needing to officially declare only two genders exist – how did we arrive at this cultural moment where biological reality became controversial? Jeff Robinson and Travis Kearns tackle the increasingly confused topic of gender through a biblical lens, providing much-needed clarity with theological depth and practical insight.
The conversation begins in Genesis, where God's intentional design of male and female establishes not just biological categories but complementary roles with divine purpose. "God made them male and female, in His image, to multiply and fill the earth," Travis emphasizes, highlighting how modern gender ideology fundamentally contradicts this created order. When examining Romans 1, the hosts make a compelling observation that gender confusion appears as the first-mentioned sin after humans turn from worshiping Creator to creation – a profound insight into why this issue has become so culturally significant.
Drawing from Kevin DeYoung's framework, the discussion outlines five biblical distinctions between men and women: appearance, physical attributes, characteristic strengths, natural demeanors, and complementary roles. While acknowledging cultural variables, they maintain that Scripture provides clear boundaries that celebrate rather than minimize gender differences. Perhaps most intriguing is their examination of whether gender issues might have genetic components influenced by the Fall, while still emphasizing moral responsibility remains unchanged.
This episode offers a thoughtful, Scripture-centered response to one of today's most divisive cultural issues. Whether you're confused by rapidly changing terminology, concerned about cultural trends, or seeking biblical wisdom for conversations with friends and family, this discussion provides solid ground in a shifting landscape. Join us as we examine what it means to embrace God's good design in a world increasingly determined to redefine it.
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Are big churches necessarily healthy? In our latest episode, we explore the complex relationship between church size and spiritual vitality, challenging the widely-held belief that larger congregations automatically reflect greater health. Join hosts Jeff Robinson and Travis Kearns as they engage in thought-provoking discussions about the true markers of a healthy church.
We delve deep into the critical elements of church health, emphasizing the importance of a robust foundation in Scripture. With references to influential thinkers like Mark Dever, we explore how expository preaching and active engagement in the Great Commission play vital roles in nurturing a spiritually vibrant community. Moreover, we highlight real-world examples showcasing diverse expressions of church health that transcend mere attendance figures.
Listeners are invited to consider pressing questions: What does a healthy church look like, and how can we measure ministry success beyond numbers? Through personal anecdotes and practical advice, we aim to equip church leaders and members with tools to cultivate environments that prioritize genuine community and spiritual growth.
This episode is filled with valuable insights for anyone invested in church health, from leaders and pastors to dedicated church members. Take part in this enlightening journey and reflect on your own church community's vibrancy. Don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review to help us spread the word!
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Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) are buzzwords that dominate contemporary discourse, yet their implications and origins often remain unexplored. Join us as we host Travis Kearns, trustee at the Baptist Courier, to shed light on DEI through a biblical perspective. Challenging the conventional wisdom of DEI's Marxist roots, we explore how its focus on equal outcomes may diverge from the Christian principles of merit and opportunity. Our conversation also delves into the political landscape, reflecting on significant actions like President Trump's executive order against DEI programs, and questions how such cultural ideologies could potentially contradict biblical teachings.
Turning our focus to unity in faith, we discuss the importance of spiritual gifts over external characteristics like ethnicity or social status. By referencing biblical texts such as Revelation 5-9 and Romans 12, we highlight the potential for DEI principles to inadvertently sow division rather than foster unity within the church. Drawing from Ephesians 2, we underscore the biblical ideal that in Christ, there is neither Jew nor Greek, advocating for church practices that truly reflect this unity. This episode offers a thought-provoking examination of how contemporary ideas align—or conflict—with Scripture, encouraging a robust and faith-centered approach to modern challenges.
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Ever wonder why certain books of the Bible, like Leviticus and Numbers, seem daunting and irrelevant? Join me, Jeff Robinson, as I unravel this mystery through the lens of Luke 24, exploring how Jesus' resurrection provides a fresh perspective on these challenging texts. This episode promises to illuminate the significance of Christ's resurrection and how it can transform your reading of the Bible into a cohesive, hope-filled narrative. Let's journey together to understand why these ancient texts matter deeply to our Christian faith.
Throughout history, Jesus Christ has been the central figure that both the Old and New Testaments point to, and in this episode, we uncover how the entire Bible serves as a unified narrative centered around Him. We'll explore the profound connections between the law, prophets, writings, and the redemptive work of Jesus, including the significance of events like the Passover. By understanding these connections, you'll gain new insights into the consistent message of salvation woven throughout the scriptures and see how even the most obscure passages can come alive with meaning.
Engage with us as we challenge common interpretations of Scripture and encourage a God-centered reading that emphasizes the Bible's overarching redemptive narrative. Discover how this perspective answers fundamental worldview questions and shifts our focus from merely personal application to the historical unfolding of God's plan. I invite you to connect with us through Baptist Courier Ministries, where we aim to inspire and inform, fostering a deeper appreciation for the Bible's relevance to your life and faith.
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What happens when the thrill of a last-minute touchdown crosses paths with the teachings of faith? Join us in an enlightening discussion featuring Brian Payne, lead pastor of Lakeview Baptist Church and former University of Alabama football player. Together with Travis Kearns and me, Jeff Robinson, we reflect on Alabama, Clemson, and Georgia's recent playoff exits and what they reveal about the fascinating intersection of sports and Christianity. You'll hear personal stories, like Travis's Clemson devotion shining through his orange wedding band, and how each of us finds our sports passion reflecting in our spiritual journey.
Our conversation goes beyond the surface, tackling the dual nature of sports as both divine gifts and potential idols. Drawing insights from historical figures like Thomas Aquinas and the reformers, we examine how the church's views on sports have transformed over the decades. Brian shares his personal odyssey from the football field to the pulpit, highlighting the delicate balance between fostering discipline and avoiding idolatry. We unpack the idea of being good stewards of our talents and time, emphasizing how to maintain harmony between our love for sports and our faith in God.
As we journey through the life lessons sports offer, particularly through baseball, we explore how failure and perseverance form cornerstones of both athletic and spiritual growth. These stories of mental toughness and resilience serve as metaphors for our Christian walk. We ponder the cultural implications of sports, urging listeners to seek identity in faith rather than athletic success. To wrap up, we hint at exciting developments at Courier Publishing, including upcoming books on the Doctrine of Perseverance and Mormonism, inviting you to connect with us for more insights and inspiration.
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What happens when a pastor experiences moral failure? Can redemption pave the way for a return to leadership, or is the path to restoration much more complex? Join us as we, along with co-host Travis Kearns, tackle these pressing questions, exploring the delicate balance between accountability and grace within church leadership. Drawing from Jonathan Lehman's insights and our own experiences, we navigate the distinctions between restoring someone to church membership versus a pastoral office. Discover how the biblical qualifications in 1 Timothy guide these challenging decisions, and consider the profound implications of church discipline on personal and professional restoration.
The conversation doesn't end there. We scrutinize the ongoing challenge of upholding moral integrity in ministry, questioning whether certain transgressions, like adultery, should permanently disqualify someone from pastoral leadership. Can a fallen pastor, post-restoration, offer unique empathy to others in similar situations? We also invite South Carolina Baptists to engage with us by sending questions for future episodes, ensuring our content remains relevant and enriching. Stay informed and inspired as we explore these critical topics, and look forward to insightful discussions in our upcoming episodes.
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Explore the transformative legacy of Reformation Day with us and our distinguished guest, Dr. Walter Johnson, a seasoned expert in church history and theology. Discover how the monumental events sparked by Martin Luther's 95 Theses in 1517 continue to shape modern faith and emphasize the importance of returning to biblical authority. Through engaging discussions, we reflect on the profound reactions of students encountering historical figures like John Bunyan and Jonathan Edwards, underscoring the enduring influence of Reformation principles on contemporary religious thought.
We also tackle the necessity of engaging with differing theological views, especially in an era rife with misinformation. Highlighting the misconceptions surrounding figures like John Calvin and Martin Luther, we stress the importance of reading primary sources to foster a clearer understanding of theological positions. These insights set the stage for a broader conversation about the Reformation's lasting impact on Protestant beliefs and its relevance to current issues, including the role of Christian citizenship in light of the upcoming presidential election. This episode promises a deeper appreciation for the historical milestones that continue to guide our faith journey today.
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Is the current abortion debate in America a reflection of the sexual revolution's consequences? Jeff Robinson and Travis Kearns invite you to explore this provocative question as they dive into the ethical and political complexities of abortion from a Christian perspective. Sparking from William McGurn's eye-opening editorial in the Wall Street Journal, we dissect the dramatic shift from a predominantly pro-life stance to a more prevalent pro-choice sentiment nationwide. This discussion transcends the typical narratives of women's health care and reproductive justice, focusing instead on the moral responsibilities that accompany sexual activity and the potential creation of human life. We also take a critical look at an opinion piece from Baptist News Global, challenging its scriptural interpretation that suggests Christian support for reproductive justice and abortion access.
In a political landscape increasingly dominated by pro-choice rhetoric, how do Christians navigate their advocacy for the protection of innocent life? This episode delves into the challenges faced by Christians in a predominantly pro-choice environment, emphasizing the importance of political engagement, strategic voting, and unwavering support for pro-life organizations. Join us as we underscore the necessity of sharing the gospel message to inspire true spiritual transformation, recognizing that real change begins with the heart. Despite the daunting reality of being the minority, we discuss the imperative of standing firm in our beliefs, advocating for truth, and remaining a vocal force in the quest to protect life.
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What if a strong friendship rooted in faith could transform your ministry? Join us on Career Conversations Now as we reveal the vibrant new format with co-hosts Jeff Robinson and Travis Kerns. Celebrating a 25-year friendship that began at Southern Seminary, we kick things off with some friendly football rivalry—Travis, a die-hard Clemson fan, and Jeff, a Georgia Bulldogs enthusiast. But beyond the banter, we dive into serious issues affecting the Southern Baptist and South Carolina Baptist Conventions, from theology and culture to politics, all while keeping the discussion accessible and engaging.
In our latest episode, we explore the profound impact of biblical Christian friendships, drawing on historical examples like John Newton and John Ryland, and George Whitefield and John Wesley. We discuss how these gospel-centered relationships shaped their ministries, providing a rich framework for understanding the vital role of trust, humor, and humility in our own friendships. Reflecting on our experiences with friends like Phil Newton and Brian Payne, we underscore the value of sincere, gospel-centered interactions. Tune in to learn why these friendships are not just beneficial but essential for impactful ministry.
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Moving forward, Travis Kerns will join Jeff Robinson to discuss the issues each month. In this inaugural edition , they discuss the work of the SBC’s cooperation committee and the Law Amendment.
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Walter Johnson, founding Dean of the College of Christian Studies, reflects on North Greenville’s remarkable transition from a struggling two-year college to a thriving four-year university made during his 32-year tenure.
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Courier President Jeff Robinson and publisher Evan Knies discuss Courier Publishing, the new 1821 book line, and their love for books in general.
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Courier President Jeff Robinson interviews Hunter Baker about his new work at North Greenville University.
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Don Cox talks with the Courier’s president about his new book on how churches can love their pastors well. Dr. Cox has been pastor of Concord BC in Anderson, SC, for the past 20 years and previously served as professor of evangelism at Southern Seminary.
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Tony and Jeff talk about their first weeks among South Carolina Baptists and also discuss Christian civility when it comes to believers disagreeing on things.
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Tony and Jeff talk about their first weeks among South Carolina Baptists and also discuss Christian civility when it comes to believers disagreeing on things.
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This episode of Courier Conversations with host Jeff Robinson and historian Peter Beck, professor at Charleston Southern University, examines the history and place of confessionalism in Baptist life.
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Travis Kerns, missions strategist for Three Rivers Baptist Association, talks with Editor Jeff Robinson about sharing the gospel with Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and other cults. Kerns is author of “The Saints of Zion: An Introduction to Mormon Theology,” published by Broadman & Holman.
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In this episode, Bill Cox, founder of Concoxions Ministries, tells Managing Editor Todd Deaton about how "Art to Heart" began 50 years ago when he offered to substitute as a chalk artist on a mission trip to Kentucky. He also shares his plans for celebrating this half-century milestone by doing 50 drawings in churches and various venues, concluding with Spartanburg First Baptist on June 23, 2024
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The Courier talks with Baptist historian Tom Nettles about the rich history of Baptists in South Carolina. Dr. Nettles has served for many years as a professor of church history and is author of numerous books on Baptist history including "Baptists and the Bible" and "James Petigru Boyce: A Southern Baptist Statesman."
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Baptist Beginnings in South Carolina: A Conversation with Tom Nettles, Part I. The Courier talks with Baptist historian Tom Nettles about the rich history of Baptists in South Carolina. Dr. Nettles has served for many years as a professor of church history and is author of numerous books on Baptist history including "Baptists and the Bible" and "James Petigru Boyce: A Southern Baptist Statesman."
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Editor Jeff Robinson talks with Taylors Pastor Josh Powell about the Resurrection of Christ and the Hope of Easter.
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The New Courier Editor talks with Nathan Finn, provost at North Greenville University, about his renomination for SBC recording secretary. Finn also discusses the need for Baptists to know their history.
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Jeff Robinson, Louisville pastor and director of news and information at Southern Seminary, was elected President and Editor of The Courier on Feb. 17. Retiring Editor Rudy Gray interviews Robinson about his family, career and vision for The Courier.
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Pastor Eddie Leopard and his wife, Dawn, continue sharing some of their insights about love, marriage and building strong families. They are the authors of “Home-Base Marriages: Essentials for a Healthy Marriage That Will Last Through the Generations,” printed by Courier Publishing.
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Eddie and Dawn Leopard talk with Managing Editor Todd Deaton about Home Base Ministries, their ministry focusing on healthy marriages and better parenting. Married for almost 40 years now, they share some of their insights on keeping a relationship fresh and exciting.
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Editor Rudy Gray and CFO Chris Holliday discuss the
water damage to The Courier’s offices caused by a burst pipe during the recent cold snap.
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In part two, Tom Turner, president and CEO of SCBMA, shares his dream of a new facility to care for senior adults in the midlands and about a new line of service that SCBMA has started offering called Senior Smart Solutions, using technology that allows individuals to age more safely and stay at home longer. He also shares about the brand new nursing facility at Bethea.
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Part One of a Two part series with Tom Turner, president and CEO of South Carolina Baptist Ministries of the Aging, shares about the care that South Carolina Baptists are providing through both continued opportunities for ministry and personal enrichment for aging adults who live at their two retirement communities: Martha Franks and Bethea.
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Albert Allen, the incoming President of the South Carolina Baptist Convention, shares his Theme and Plans for SC Baptists in 2023. Allen, Pastor of First Baptist Church, Newberry, is a former Missionary to Asia, working with an unreached people group.
Allen also shares his hope for SC Baptists to capture again the sirit of being on mission together.
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In Part 2 of the episode, D.J. Horton, chair of the SCBC Sexual Abuse Task Force, says it’s not just about protecting the church’s witness, it’s about doing what is in the best interest of the survivor.
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In this episode of Courier Conversations, Chair D.J. Horton, pastor of Church at the Mill in Moore, discusses the upcoming state Sexual Abuse Task Force report at the state convention with Editor Rudy Gray.
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Courier Tours hosted a trip to the Amish Country and Washington,D.C. during the last week of September 2022. Fifty-five people joined us for the journey. Here are some of the highlights of our trip. Join our email list to receive notifications of upcoming trips
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Work of Crisis Pregnancy Centers will continue, even increase, after Roe’s overturning. Vulnerable women still in need of compassion, hope and practical help, CPC director Alexia Newman tells Editor Rudy Gray.
Mike Baker, director of missions for Piedmont Association, talks with Rudy Gray about experiences on the international mission fields and in the hunting fields of South Carolina. Baker also reveals a potential title for the latest book he is writing.
Tony Beam, director of the Office of Public Policy, discusses with Rudy Gray the recent injunction of the Heartbeat Bill and related developments in the S.C. Legislature.
Todd interviews Jay Boyd, of Connie Maxwell Children’s Ministry about the upcoming Everyone Can Do Something Tour, Sept. 6-8, at three locations across the state. Presented by Jason Johnson, of Christian Alliance for Orphans, the tour will encourage church leaders in supporting children and families involved in foster care.
Interview with Will Branham who recently led a six-member team of South Carolina Baptists to Romania to minister among Ukrainian refugees.
Tony Beam, director of Public Policy for the South Carolina Baptist Convention, discusses what is happening in South Carolina in the wake of the overturn of Roe v Wade with Courier Editor Rudy Gray.
Todd Deaton talks with Margene Todd, a member of Ocean View Baptist Church in Myrtle Beach, who is celebrating 40 years of ministry to the deaf.
In this podcast, Rudy Gray talks with Tony Beam, director of public policy for the South Carolina Baptist Convention, about the SBC Sexual Abuse Task Force’s recommendations and the controversy surrounding a twitter post by Guidepost Solutions in support of the LGBTQ community.
In Episode 1, Rudy and Todd discuss South Carolinians running for SBC office, the three candidates for SBC president, the report of the Sexual Abuse Task Force, and convention messengers being encouraged to go to Disney park in Anaheim.
This episode is our Podcast debut of Courier Conversations. This will be a conversation of topics that concern inspire and inform Christians about current events Worldwide. We hope you'll find our stories informing and encouraging in your daily walk with Christ.