Death in Cambodia, Life in America: Recent Episodes
Dorothy Chow
A father-daughter podcast where I interview my father, Robert Chau, on exactly how he survived and escaped the Khmer Rouge aka 1970's Cambodian Genocide. We will follow along his journey on how a starving boy crawling out of Cambodia become a serial American entrepreneur. After 50 years, he deserves a chance to finally share his story.
In this episode of Death in Cambodia, Life in America, we sit down with award-winning Cambodian-American director and writer, Bunthoeun Real, to dive into his experiences growing up as a Cambodian American and his inspiring journey into filmmaking. Real shares the unique challenges of navigating cultural expectations, the importance of representation in media, and the personal stories behind his acclaimed short film, Donut Boy, which captures the lives of Cambodian American "donut kids."
Throughout the conversation, Real opens up about how family history, trauma, and identity have shaped his storytelling, highlighting the vital role authentic narratives play in connecting with audiences. We discuss the ups and downs of the filmmaking process and how the industry is slowly embracing more diverse voices. Real also shares his aspirations for future projects that will continue to shine a light on Cambodian American experiences.
This episode offers a touching reflection on the power of storytelling as a bridge across generations and a source of healing within communities. Join us as we explore the beauty and strength that come from sharing stories that matter.
Supporting Bunthoeun Real’s Work:
Donut Boy Trailer: https://youtu.be/0dBzAFVro9A?si=8k0YW7ZvFZRBK4Sc
Instagram: @breal2dollaz + @donutboythesis
You can watch Donut Boy at the following upcoming film festivals:
San Diego International Film Festival: October 17, 2024 Local Sighting Film Festival in Seattle (Virtual + In-Person Viewing Options): September 20-September 29, 2024
Elizabeth Becker, a war correspondent and author of When The War Was Over: Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge, discusses her experience in Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge regime. Becker explains how she became interested in Cambodian history and how she ended up as a journalist in Vietnam and Cambodia. Becker highlights the importance of understanding the historical context of Cambodia's involvement in the Vietnam War and the impact of American bombing. She also shares her experience as one of the few journalists allowed into Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge regime and the propaganda she witnessed. Becker discusses the murder of a journalist during her visit and the inconsistencies in the official narrative. She concludes by reflecting on her interview with Pol Pot and the paranoia and delusions of the Khmer Rouge leadership. Elizabeth Becker discusses her experiences in Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge regime and the importance of telling the stories of ordinary people. She talks about her book 'When the War is Over' and the impact it has had. Becker also mentions the movie 'Rendezvous avec Pol Pot' and the emotional toll of being close to such a horrific figure. She emphasizes the need for more media attention on Cambodia and its history.
Supporting Elizabeth Beckers WorkWebsitewww.elizabethbecker.com
Books
You Don't Belong Here: How Three Women Rewrote the Story of War
When The War Was Over: Cambodia And The Khmer Rouge
Dr. Scott A. Allen, an author, physician and professor, shares his experiences working in refugee camps on the Thai-Cambodian border in the 1980s in his book, Across a Bridge of Fire: An American Teen's Odyssey from the Burn Ward to the Edge of the Cambodian Killing Fields. Dr. Allen highlights the resilience and hope he witnessed in the refugees, despite their difficult circumstances. He also explores the complexities of the Khmer Rouge regime and the challenges faced by women and children in the camps. Throughout the conversation, Dr. Allen emphasizes the importance of sharing and preserving the stories of survivors. He discusses the trauma experienced by Cambodian children in refugee camps and the resilience and optimism he witnessed among the survivors. He also talks about his transition from a relief worker to a resettlement worker for the U.S. Embassy and the challenges faced during the refugee resettlement process. He emphasizes the significance of preserving the history of the Cambodian American community and the contributions they have made to the United States.
Supporting Dr. Allens Work:
Website: drscottallen.com
Read His Book: “Across a Bridge of Fire: An American Teen's Odyssey from the Burn Ward to the Edge of the Cambodian Killing Fields”
Monica Sok, author of A Nail the Evening Hangs On, discusses her upbringing in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and her connection to her Cambodian heritage. She shares how her parents' silence about their refugee experiences and her own curiosity led her to explore her history and pursue poetry. Sok talks about her time studying abroad in Vietnam and Cambodia, which inspired her to commit to writing poetry. She discusses her writing process and the emotional journey of creating her book. Sok discusses the process of writing her book of poems and the responsibility she felt to carry the history of her community. She explains how she created personas in her poems to write about the experiences of her family and community from a safe distance. Sok also reflects on how writing the book has changed her and brought her closer to the Khmer community. She hopes that future generations will learn the importance of their history, remain critical, and continue to fight against empire.
Supporting Monca’s Work:Website: http://www.monicasok.com
Read Her Book:
A Nail the Evening Hangs On
Director and producer Chris Parkhurst discusses his documentary film 'Elvis of Cambodia' and his journey of exploring the music and legacy of Cambodian artist Sinn Sisamouth. The film beautifully blends the history of the Khmer Rouge with the healing power of Cambodian music. Chris shares how he fell in love with documentary filmmaking and Cambodia during his first visit in 2004. He talks about the challenges of making the film over a span of 10 years and the importance of honoring the family and the country in telling the story. The documentary film, 'Elvis of Cambodia,' explores the life and legacy of Cambodian musician Sinn Sisamouth and the impact of his music on the Cambodian people. The film highlights the resilience of the Cambodian culture and the role of music as a form of survival during the Khmer Rouge regime. It also follows the journey of Sin Setsochhata, Sinn Sisamouth's granddaughter, who becomes a successful Khmer musician. The film aims to bridge the gap between generations and promote healing and understanding of Cambodia's history. Parkhurts hopes that viewers, both Cambodian and non-Cambodian, will gain a deeper appreciation for Cambodian arts and culture.
Links to Parkhurst’s Work:
www.chrisparkhurst.com
www.elvisofcambodia.com
Anne Elizabeth Moore, author of Cambodian Grrrl, shares her experiences in Cambodia, teaching young women about self-publishing and cultural differences. She discusses the impact of the Khmer Rouge and the Chbab Srey on women's rights and freedom of speech. The conversation covers Moore’s experience teaching self-publishing to young women in Cambodia, the impact of the experience on her, the creation of her books, and the evolution of women's rights in Cambodia. It also delves into the complexities of writing about non-Western cultures and the unintended consequences of white saviorism.
Anne’s Work + Social Platforms
Website: https://anneelizabethmoore.com/
Cambodian Grrrrl: Self-Publishing in Phnom Penh: https://a.co/d/5BFhqSj
New Girl Law: Drafting a Future for Cambodia: https://a.co/d/hQ12lPE
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aem.oore
Soreath Hok, a multimedia journalist, shares her journey in the media industry and her focus on reporting on Cambodian-American mental health issues. She discusses her upbringing as a 1.5 generation immigrant and her love for media from a young age. Soreath talks about her experience in college radio and how it led her to pursue a career in journalism. She highlights the importance of representation in the media and the support she has received for her reporting on Cambodian Americans. Soreath also discusses her fellowship at the USC Annenberg Center for Mental Health Journalism and the impact it had on her reporting. Soreath Hok's journalism work focuses on the mental health issues faced by Cambodian refugees and the second generation. She highlights the lack of resources and culturally sensitive care available to these communities. Through her reporting, she sheds light on the trauma and challenges experienced by Cambodian refugees and their descendants. Soreath's articles have been well-received and have won awards. She also explores her own family's story and the donut industry in her writing. Soreath's work is part of a larger movement to bring awareness and healing to the Cambodian American community.
Additional Resources and Soreath's work:
-https://www.kvpr.org/community/2022-11-28/from-cambodia-to-california-survivors-of-the-khmer-rouge-genocide-need-access-to-mental-healthcare
-https://www.kvpr.org/health/2022-11-30/a-program-built-for-and-by-cambodian-refugees-suffering-from-ptsd-participants-say-it-works
-https://www.kvpr.org/local-news/2022-12-02/how-a-temple-and-a-newer-generation-is-carrying-cambodian-tradition-in-fresno
https://www.kqed.org/news/11945946/the-oakland-program-helping-the-cambodian-community-heal-unspoken-trauma
Legacy of Mrs. Rosalynn Carter and impact on Cambodian refugees: https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2023/12/01/rosalynn-carter-death-cambodian-refugees-thailand-soreath-hok
Dr. Sophal Ear, a Cambodian refugee, shares his journey from escaping the Khmer Rouge to becoming a successful academic and writer. He discusses his multifaceted work, including teaching, research, and consulting, and his passion for paying it forward and giving back. Dr. Ear reflects on the importance of educating the next generation about the Khmer Rouge and Cambodian history. He also shares his experiences growing up in France, the challenges of moving to America, and the impact of his mother's determination. Throughout his journey, Dr. Ear emphasizes the role of others in shaping his success and the importance of community. Sophal Ear shares his journey of choosing a different path from becoming a medical doctor to pursuing political science and economics. He discusses the complexities of development and the flaws in foreign assistance. He also talks about his experience writing about Western academic supporters of the Khmer Rouge and the challenges of publishing a book. He shares the inspiration behind his TED Talk and the creation of a documentary about his family's story of escape from the Khmer Rouge. He concludes with a message to the second generation of Cambodian Americans, emphasizing the importance of appreciating their parents' journey and taking responsibility for continuing the story.
Welcome back to Season 3 of Death in Cambodia, Life in America! We're starting season 3 off strong with a special guest: Dr. Patrick Heuveline. Dr. Heuveline is a sociologist and expert on the long-term consequences of the Khmer Rouge regime, discusses the effects of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. He explores topics such as the baby boom that occurred after the Khmer Rouge, the mental health effects on survivors and their children, and the transformation of family structures in post-Khmer Rouge Cambodia. Dr. Heuveline also touches on the comparison between the effects of the Khmer Rouge and other genocides, such as the Holocaust and the genocide in Rwanda. The conversation explores the process of healing and reconstruction in Cambodia after the Khmer Rouge regime. It discusses the challenges of conducting research in post-conflict settings and the need for comparative studies. The conversation also highlights the slow healing process at the population level, with younger generations indirectly experiencing the trauma through their interactions with the older generation. The conversation emphasizes the importance of documenting the history, promoting dialogue, and encouraging the diaspora to contribute to the country's development.
Nicholas Coffill's huge passion for live theatre, performances, and sharing a cultures history through photography and music - lead him to create one of the first ever fully developed photography books about Cambodia today. His book "Photography in Cambodia: 1866 to the Present" is one of the most beautiful coffee table books enriched with photography from ancient times, up until modern day Cambodia. His experience in museum curation allows this book to feel like you are walking through a "museum of photos" that tell the story of Cambodia's past. In this epsiode we discuss how Nick ended up in Cambodia, where did the origins of the book idea come from, and how this book has impacted the lives of Cambodians.
You may find a copy of his book here: https://www.amazon.com/Photography-Cambodia-Present-Nicholas-Coffill/dp/0804854408
Nicholas Coffills Website: https://museumplanning.weebly.com/index.html
For the past three decades, award-winning artist, playwright, and librettist Catherine Filloux has been traveling to conflict areas creating art that addresses human rights and U.S. complicity. Her plays and operas about Cambodia include: “Eyes of the Heart” and “Photographs from S-21” and she is the co-founder of Theatre Without Borders. “Where Elephants Weep” the only Cambodian-U.S. rock opera will air on Broadway on Demand from April 14 to 23, 2023, in time for the Cambodian New Year, with an accompanying conversation by Filloux and composer Sophy Him.
Cambodian-U.S. rock opera WHERE ELEPHANTS WEEP available for free viewing on Broadway on Demand from April 14 to 23, 2023, in time for the Cambodian New Year. WATCH HERE! https://www.broadwayondemand.com/rentals/f4e4b5d8-ede0-4035-b6e6-884c0fca3473
Myra Torcheux has her masters from The London School of Economics and aspires to change policies for children's rights. Much of her passion for this career is driven by her experience growing up in France as an adoptee. I mentioned via social media that I am passionate about highlighting stories that deserve more attention, one storyline being the great amount of orphans that came out of the Khmer Rouge. We brought Myra onto the podcast for her to share her experiences, her struggles with her identity, and more.
Here is a summary of her dissertation to learn more! https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/seac/2023/01/26/uncovering-transitional-justice-in-the-post-genocide-cambodian-diaspora/
I am popping out of retirement to introduce you to someone that I absolutely HAD to interview. Sochanvimean or as I call him Vimean , is a Cambodian Ph.D Psychologist at UCSB who is passionate about how the mental health and generational trauma is cultivated through traumatic expereinces such as the Khmer Rouge. We dig into Vimean's past growing up in Cambodia, and how his passion for offering more mental health services lead him to getting the education he has today.
We talk about the following topics:
- Vimean Introduction
- Why was he so passionate about mental health and why he came to the US
- What are the greatest challenges he believes survivors face
- How has he seen generational trauma manefest in the second generation
- Are there differences in struggles between American and Cambodian patients
Join us in an amazing discussion covering these topics with an educated licensed Cambodian therapist.
Robert and I share our last recording together as we close this chapter. We finalize the season by discussing what Robert has learned over the years, how he would have done things differently, and what he hopes everyone will takeaway from this podcast. We discuss topics like revenge, forgiveness, the legacy he hopes to leave behind, lessons of life and so much more.
You can hear me tear up and cry towards the end and I realized this season was coming to a end. What a journey this has been.
The future of this podcast will continue, but for Robert, it is time to say farewell <3
Thank you again to everyone who has listened religiously every Sunday. Please continue to follow us on social media to get the latest updates!
https://www.deathincambodiapodcast.com/
Today we bring on Angela Wu LMFT aka the Sassy Asian Therapist to bring on a professional light on what generational trauma is, and how we can cope with it as second generation asian Americans. We discuss this idea of trying to "fix" our parents as children of refugees, tactics to handle generational trauma, how we can start the conversation of healing with our parents and many more!
Do not miss this episode. This is such a wonderful conversation for second generation Cambodian Americans.
https://www.thesassyasiantherapist.com/
David and Robert met when they were both young and starting their their careers. While Robert was building his long train of shops up along highway 99, he met a nice lawyer from Camarillo, CA who was willing to help Robert on reading documents and any legal situations he was in. To this day, David is just a phone call away for any of Robert's legal issues. David has helped him navigate everything from signing on a new store, to maneuvering through the painful lawsuits that Robert has encountered. It was a blessing to have David on to talk about not only his experiences through the lawsuits, but also bring in a 3rd party perspective on what was happening, and what exactly went down with the fall of Golden Bake.
Music By: Acerelio Chen
Robert discusses the lowest point in his life in America - when a family member and business partner who he trained from the ground up, stabbed him in the back and pushed him out of his own company. He talks about being depressed, angry, and turning to alcohol to release himself from the pain. Robert felt he spent his whole life working and sacrificing for this company, and only to have it be taken away by greed and jealousy was the twist he never ever expected.
I hope that highlighting this story can help the second generation community do better for ourselves, and learn that the only way for us to move forward as a community is to uplift each other, not tear each other down.
Music By: Acerelio Chen
Robert reflects on his past and the different obstacles he faced as he ran 4 different companies at once. We dive into topics like how people viewed him, jealousy, family perceptions and more. He recalls an instance where we attends a wedding where nobody actually knew who he was and he witnessed (and even joined in!) on the gossip about this mysterious man who ran Golden Bake. He remembers the great times, watching this company become the pride and joy of the Cambodian community. Robert then dives into the gigantic issue that he was faced with.
Music by: Acerelio Chen
Robert continues to grow B&H in Northern California and ended up doing so well that he surpassed his Southern California counterpart. They had an agreement when they first decided to join together that Robert's territory was Northern California and his friend was Southern. However, the counterpart started getting jealous and crossing into Northern California territory. Robert let it drag on for 9 years until he eventually had to file a lawsuit. It was a sad time to feel like he has to be pushed to do such a thing within his own community. Robert also discusses his health sacrifices and surviving 2 strokes during this building process.
Music By: Acerelio Chen
Robert discusses the cultural downfalls of the Cambodian culture that he first realizes when he tries to grow his business. He notices that there is a lack of community and help when he comes to supporting their own Cambodian people, which we call "crabs in a bucket" mentality. Robert does his best to create this community and despite the pushback, continues to move forward and grow the business.
Music By Acerelio Chen
Robert and I take it back to discuss how he went from a silent investor to running the Northern California division of B&H Bakery Distributors. Robert believes it was a great idea from the very beginning to supply his own community with the ingredients they needed to run their donut shops. After building the donut shops up along California, Robert already had the donut network he needed to kickstart the supply company. B&H Bakery Distributors being in Northern California while his family still in Southern California meant that he only spent 1 day a week at home. We discuss how his sacrifices and lack of family time has impacted his relationship with the family today.
Music By: Acerelio Chen
Robert continued on with his growth mindset and built donut shops until he hit South Lake Tahoe where he lost money due to renting the shops to owners with gambling problems. He then decided that he was going to tackle Church's Fried Chicken when he found out of an opportunity to take over their locations with the idea of potentially turning them into donut shops. Robert goes national with his dreams and even tries to strike a deal. We truly learn that Robert at this point in his life is willing to tackle any challenge that life throws his way. He also tried to tackle Yum Yum Donuts when they tried to sell their locations. We learn about the history of donut shops in California and why some of them may just be Yum Yum Donuts converted to Cambodian donut shops.
Music By: Acerelio Chen
Robert scales up the state of California taking 6-8 months at a time building donut shops all along highway 99. Robert backpacks his way just building one shop after the next with no intention of stopping. He has become borderline obsessed with his process of building donut shops. Robert talks about never taking a day off and how the culture he was raised in believed that if he had money, he had everything. Robert reflects on his life and realized how crazy he was to work and think like that.
Music By: Acerelio Chen
Today, I released the video called Dear Fellow Survivors. This video feels like the accumulation of what the podcast represents so far: healing. My goal is and always has been to heal as many remaining survivors as possible, and this video is the kickstart. Todays release is a audio version of Robert's speech, however if you don't understand Khmer, I would recommend to check out the YouTube video that includes english subtitles.
Link to Video: https://youtu.be/cDWius2qyFM
I will be taking a 2 week intermission from launching episodes to refresh, plan, and manifest the future of this podcast. If you haven't seen, we were on CBS National TV a few weeks ago, and I feel nothing but gratitude for the opportunity to represent the Cambodian American community through this podcast. (still pinching myself!)
Thank you to all the listeners who have followed along since the very start. This is only the beginning for us!
Content will resume June 19, Fathers Day.
Here is the CBS Segment if you want to check it out! https://www.cbsnews.com/video/artist-and-podcaster-describe-the-cambodian-american-refugee-experience/?fbclid=IwAR16Gfi_49tWYy--IRkBtZ6l8QfxrM41HSttQVu2dKKxijGtHqSQ0MbIxzQ
Robert continues to build donut shops throughout California. In this epsiode we talk about Robert's chase towards the American Dream and why he fought so relentlessly towards it. I ask Robert how he has the willpower to keep going, and what his mindset was like as a new refugee in America. This episode was a huge eye opener for me on how refugees look at their life in America as a second chance to life. And how being in a country that allows you to dream, made him feel he had no other option but to chase it.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Robert gets back on his feet and builds his first donut shop's sales in just 6 months. Sleeping and breathing the donut shop day in and day out allowed him to pay back all his investors within the first year. Robert LOVES his newfound way to build a good life in America. He brings mama and the whole family from Portland to also work these donut shops. He relentlessly pushes himself to the limit and enjoys the process of building more and more shops for refugees flooding into the country.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
About 20 years ago, Stuart Isett lived on the corners of Argyle and Glenwood and noticed that many of his fellow neighbors were Cambodian Refugees from the Khmer Rouge. Years later, he put together a photo book called "On the Corners of Argyle and Glenwood' that showcases the Cambodian Refugee experience here in America. He captures the Cambodian youth of the 80's, grandmothers grieving, and families that are simply trying to create a new life from scratch in this new country.
Today we are joined by 3 very important guests - Stuart Isett, Silong Chhun, and Pete Pin who are the collaborators on this very special book. We talk about why Stuart put together this book and what this kind of representation means for the Cambodian community. We even discuss topics such as generational trauma and how we can move forward.
Thank you Stuart, Silong, and Pete for this amazing talk!
To learn more about our honored guests:
Stuart Isett
Website: https://www.isett.com/
Social: https://www.instagram.com/stuartisettphotography/
Silong Chhun
Website: https://www.silongchhun.com/
Social: https://www.instagram.com/thefakesilong/?hl=en
Red Scarf Revolution: https://redscarfrevolution.com/
Pete Pin
Website: https://petepin.com/
Migrations of Memory:https://petepin.com/projects
Bob Burton was the real estate commercial agent who helped Robert find his first donut shop ever. Today we with with Bob and recall when he first met Robert and why he felt compelled to help this refugee from Cambodia.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Robert scrambles to find a way to get 30k through his family and friends to buy his first donut shop. After getting the money... in cash, he marches over to the real estate office and drops off a trash bag of money to purchase the store. Stunning the entire office, Bob Burton asks him if he has a check, while Robert responds he doesn't even have a bank account! Within the first week, Robert also encounters his first instance of being robbed. Tired from the long hours, and sleeping in the back of the shop, Robert relentlessly works to build up the business.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Robert immediately decided that it was time to change his lifestyle and dive headfirst into donut shops. He left his company and volunteered to watch over his uncles financials. After working there for about 6 months, he decides he wants to have his own. Robert gets really close with a regular customer named Bob Burton, who happens to be a commercial real esate broker. Together they find Robert's first donut shop. It was the most exciting time of Robert's life so far.
Music By Acerelio Chen
In this epsiode, Robert found work in LA and starts to make some friends in this new city. He would be out drinking, and living for the weekends as most 20's somethings do. One day he decides to visit his auntie about 30 minutes away from town. Since arriving to their front doorstep, he was treated with disrespect and looked down upon. Without even being offered dinner in their howe, he felt unwelcome and left early. He left that home with a new found passion to improve his life. He brushed off his dirty shirt, wiped his tears, and vowed to get his life together so he would never feel that way again.
The last words the auntie told him was "Don't EVER run donut shops".
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
In this epsiode we follow Robert and his push to master the English language. He noticed immediately that without the language, you would not be able to get a good job other than a farmer or a janitor. He also started to make American friends who showed him the culture in America. Robert enjoyed the independent way of life because he truly felt it was similar to his natural independent nature. After earning his AA degree, and not getting any job prospects that he wanted, he decided to make a drastic move to change his life and experience a big city. He packed his bags, took $20 for gas..and moved to LA.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Robert has now started to learn more about how different life is like in America. I starts to learn that here in this country, people who work hard regardless of social status and birthright, can be successful. The family also decides that is probably best to move somewhere closer to a stronger Cambodian community, so they move to Portland Oregon. There, Robert was able to make friends and start going to community college to study english. For the first time, Robert is able to plan out his future, and not just survive life, but LIVE it.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Robert starts to assimilate into America and gets his first job picking berries in the fields. Later, he gets a job as a janitor in JefCo. Since there was no transportation to and from work, he got to work by walking miles. One day, Robert found a broken bike behind a trashcan. Excited, he takes it home, asks Bill Hoffman his sponsor to get him new wheels.. and BOOM, his first mode of transportation. In the meantime, Robert's family makes ends meet by saving money and eating chicken butt from the 7/11 down the street. The family starts to consider moving closer to a Cambodian community in Portland Oregon.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Welcome to Season 2! Here are my goals for this new chapter of the podcast. We will be discussing the following topics:
- What was the refugee experience like?
- The process of how Robert obsessed over his American Dream
- Why was Robert so successful? What did he fail at?
- The rise and fall of Golden Bake Food Products
- What is generational trauma? How has the khmer rouge effected second and third generations beyond?
- What do we need to do to improve and heal our community?
Robert arrives and lands in Portland Oregon in the middle of the night. He has absolutely no idea what his sponsor looks like, and gets lost in the airport. He ends up sleeping next to his gate until a janitor wakes him up. Bill Hoffman finally picks him up, and he drives him to his house. Robert spends his first night in America and experiences an American breakfast for the first time.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Ken Swann was a Field Representative for the IRC, was on the field working directly with the refugees in the main refugee camps. His job consisted of helping transport doctors and nurses to the correct camps, run errands for medical staff, and towards the end helped compiled the "Unaccompanied Minor Handbook" which helped reconnect kids with their parents in the camps. His work was incredibly valuable in saving the lives of refugees, and in this episode he shares what he witnessed during those 2 years.
Ken has recommended the following reading list for our listeners to learn more:
- "Cambodia Year Zero", by Francois Ponchaud
- "Sideshow: Kissinger, Nixon, and the Destruction of Cambodia" by William Shawcross
- "Brother Number One: A Political Biography of Pol Pot", by David Chandler
- "The Tragedy of Cambodian History", by David Chandler
- "Facing the Cambodian Past", by David Chandler
- "Cambodia's Curse; The Modern History of a Troubled Land", by Joel Brinkley
John was a stringer for the Time Magazine and Washington post from 1979-1980’s, covering on the ground exactly what was happening in these Cambodian refugee camps. He has had first hand experience and was on the grounds of the camps, witnessing everything going on from starving people marching out the forests, to being there the day of First Lady Carter Visit in November 1979. I couldn't pass up the opportunity to pick his brain and give all the listeners an inside scoop on what his experience was like.
In this episode we cover the following topics:
- What was a day-in-the-life of a stringer (journalist) during that time?
- Did he feel resistance against journalists who were trying to share what was going on?
- What were the dynamics between Thais, UN organizations, and refugees?
- What did he witness at the camps?
- What was the impact of First Lady Carter's visit to Cambodia?
- What did he learn from the experience?
John is also the author of 5 Khmer books. You may find his full library of works at:
www. john-burgess.net
John Burgess Washington Post Articles from 1979-1980:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1980/01/13/feuding-armed-factions-hurt-cambodian-relief-efforts/854c4c76-75f0-49e0-a01b-66f130a86e8e/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1979/10/11/new-khmer-flight-to-thailand-begins/0926d22a-2bc0-4c39-a90f-19bdeb426047/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1979/10/30/struggle-to-save-lives-of-refugees-frequently-fails/0f32dd1d-3048-4322-9ef8-6bb8284c3bb4/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1979/10/24/a-futile-dash-with-a-dying-boy/ebf38e3b-4907-46e9-96fb-350b3d7f2d35/
Unscripted: The Power of Storytelling
This episode was captured as I secretly pressed the record button during a talk I had with my dad about how he felt the podcast has impacted him. Sometimes when my dad knows he's being recorded, he tenses up. But this talk was just us two chatting about how he truly felt. I am so glad I captured this piece, and wanted to share with you all. We talk about:
- How support from the community feels?
- Why do we need to get more people to share their stories? Support groups etc
- How much release he feels after sharing his story?
- How is the Cambodia portion different from America?
- What future generations should learn?
Season 2 will be launching February 13.
Robert spends his last several days at Longpenny camp in Bangkok dreaming about his future in the new land. He learned that he was sponsored by a man in Portland Oregon, and he was going to be the first of the family to head to America. Everyone was handed a plastic bag with their refugee paperwork. Robert learned that toilets in America were meant to be sat on, and water inside was not meant for drinking. He left his home country, stepped on the plane, and never looked back.
America... Here I Come.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Robert takes this beautiful greyhound bus to a camp called Longpenny in Bangkok Thailand. This camp is filled with a bunch of refugees who are specifically dedicated to fly to America. Everyone here is very excited for their new lives. Here is where Robert and the family register, take photos, and finalize paperwork being heading to America. Robert remembers feeling so much hope for this future, fully believing that his days of hell are finally behind him.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Robert finally reunited with the rest of the family and lives life in Nong Chan. People start gossiping about which country they are going to go to, and dreaming about life after this camp. Red Cross and other humanitarian organizations come to the camp to take pictures, news reporters from all over the world are documenting what is happening. One day, there were about 10 buses that came to pick up their first group of people to transfer to Bangkok, an American camp. Robert barely makes it on the bus, and later finds out what dreadful events happened after he left..
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
This epsiode we will travel back in time and see how Amanda and the rest of the family escaped after Robert had made it alive in Thailand. After the family learns about the axe coming back - proving there is an escape route out of Cambodia, Amanda runs back to grab Mama to get the whole family together and out.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Robert has arrived to Nong Chan camp and is one of the first 30 refugees in this Thai camp. Prior to the Red Cross and humanitarian organizations, children specifically girls were preyed on for human trafficking, rape, and prostitution. Without the regulation of other orgs, the refugees were taken advantage of. This was absolutely terrible as Robert witness girls taken away. Imagine, people just finally escaping the jungles and crossing to the Thai border, only to have their own children targeted for human trafficking?? Robert even had to hide one of the girls in his group to protect her from these horrific soldiers. These are the silent stories that aren't told. It was a sad sad time the first 3 weeks of these refugee camps.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
**OPTIONAL LISTEN
All the music used on this podcast is originally produced and composed by a creative soul in our family. He composed a small snippet that accompanies the scene of Robert's group finding their way through the jungles of Thailand. Completely optional, but hopefully this can add a soundtrack that will contribute to your overall experience as you listen to Robert's story.**
Roberts group of escapees follow the roosters crow and creep towards what seem to be a village. They create the plan and Robert leads the pack in. What they found is a quaint Thai village and stumbled upon some locals who immediately assume this group are Khmer Rouge soldiers. Because of this lack of trust, Robert's group is thrown into jail and tortured to get information. Yes they are in Thailand, but as Thai prisoners.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Robert’s group of 5 walk towards the forest and follows their leader. They all agree to never let this guy out their sight, it fear that he would take the money and run. About 1/3 of their way into the forest, they encounter a massive storm. This rainstorm, ended up saving the groups lives. They end up getting lost and encounter dangerous animals and lack of food and direction.
Growing up, my father always shared small snippets of this story. I was captivated and it was a major spark of curiosity that led me to the creation of the podcast today.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
The Vietnamese have officially taken over the country, and everyone is flooding the Thai border in hope to get out of the country. The street is not opening, and people are starting to consider walking through the dangerous forest to reach Thailand. There are lots of criminals who took advantage of this demand, leading people into the forest to be stranded. Robert finds a trustworthy guy, gets a group together and takes the risk of walking through the forest.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Robert reunites with the family but understands that there is just not enough food to stay on the side of the road forever. Robert gets a group together and they all decide to walk towards Nimitt to pick up scraps left after the massacre. At the time, the Vietnamese soldiers were still fighting the Khmer Rouge. Since there was no food left, Robert sees a warehouse storage in the middle of the battlegrounds, and decides to raid it. While doing so, he gets stuck in the middle of active fire.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Episode 19 - The Massacre at Nimitt
The majority of the Khmer Rouge soldiers are now back at their “home base”, in the jungles between Thailand and Cambodia, which happens to be where more and more refugees are trying to cross in order to escape their country. There are a few Vietnamese soldiers are guarding the town of Nimitt, however not enough to truly protect the thousands of people who are flooding to the border. One night, the Vietnamese soldiers pulled out from the town, allowing the Khmer Rouge soldiers to raid the city and attack. Thousands of people were murdered, as the Khmer Rouge wanted to kill anyone in sight. They pushed all the refugees back so far back, it felt they were back at square one. These are the parts of history that people don’t hear about. These are the untold truths.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Epsiode 18: The war is upon us, and Robert makes the decision that he needs to escape to the Thailand border. The Khmer Rouge soldiers seems to be gone, leaving it wide open for people to leave as they please! He keeps walking and starts realizing that many people are trying to cross the border. He is so hungry and meets a nice family that offers to be with him and share food since he is alone. Robert still has not found any of his family members, but at this point, the goal is to get out of Cambodia ASAP. He reaches a town called Nimitt, right before the Thai border, and is met by Vietnamese soldiers.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Episode 17 - Vietnamese Invasion 1978
Robert starts hearing more and more bombs in the distance. All the people in these labor camps had no idea who was bombing who - but they did know they have been waiting for a change for the past 3.5 years. People know that something different is happening, which is exciting. As the Khmer Rouge soldiers get more scared of the situation, they kill more people in a last attempt to feel powerful. Over time, less and less Khmer Rouge guards seem to be around. Robert waits for the right moment to make a move.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Episode 16 - The Best Day in His Life
While Robert is being fed at another camp location under a new leader, Robert runs into a familiar face who also recognizes him. He is a distant relative who was lucky enough to marry a Khmer Rouge solider - therefore has protection. He secretly tells Robert to come meet him at his place to get more food and medication that he would need to stay alive. Robert figures out a way to meet him and this uncle gives him a bunch of food and antibiotics. For the first time in Robert’s life, he feels a sense of security. It was the best day of his life during the 3.5 years with the Khmer Rouge.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Mama has become such a powerful character in our story, that it wouldn't feel right to not officially introduce her. In this epsiode we will learn more about where she was born, how she grew up, and a small clip of Auntie Amanda recalling her mother's strength.
RIP Mama, we miss you and love you dearly.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Episode 15: Robert leaves the hospital and gets an assignment to pick up herbs close to where Mama’s camp was. He made the executive decision to use this opportunity to visit Mama, regardless of the risk. At this point he has slowly started to loose hope that there were going to be future chances for him to see his mom. While he was with Mama, she secretly rubbed some sugar on his body so he would be able to have some sustenance. He slowly gains his energy back, and with new energy comes a new found motivation to figure out how exactly he can gain trust of the Khmer Rouge soldiers.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Episode 14: The Guardian Angel - Robert has been back at this camp for over 3 months, and again had now gotten really sick from eating rats. He is extremely weak and is sent to another hospital where he is basically to rest until he dies. He gets weaker and weaker, with no hope in sight. For the first time in all this suffering, he says he lost all hope. He is 100% sure that this is where he is to die. Then one day sitting under a tree waiting for death, he is recognized by a familiar face… that changes the course for Robert forever.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Episode 13: Straight From Hell - Robert has now safely assimilated back into this original camp, away from Mama and Auntie Amanda. He describes how women were forcibly married to Khmer Rouge soldiers, the many holes he had to dig for people who were killed, and the more horrific time he experienced in the camp. He remembers a group who had tried to escape and got caught in the process. The consequences were gory and indescribable. All the while, the laborers are getting less and less and less.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Robert is walking back into the first labor camp when he meets an old friend who gives him a banana. He has accepted that he may never see his family again and that his was his life moving forward. He has arrived to the labor camp that we was originally sent to, and has safely integrated back. He remembers one night when a bedside friend was pulled out and beat to death.. Robert couldn't sleep that night thinking when it was his turn.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Robert enjoys his time with Mama and Auntie Amanda in hiding, and finally starts to feel like he has a sense of family again. His health also starts to improve as he gets more rest. Through it all, he still feels that this kind of luck in dodging the Khmer Rouge in this camp isn't going to last forever. Robert makes the very important that was pivotal in saving his family's life..
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
After recording last weeks episode, I realized that I wanted to spend a little more time diving into that creepy hospital! I mean seriously, I couldn't even begin to imagine a place like that! We take a step back and go day by day. In this episode, Robert opens up more about exactly what he experienced and saw, and my goodness... If you like scary movies, you definitely want to tune into this one.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Robert is sick with asthma and can't continue working, so the Khmer Rouge solider send him away to a local "hospital". On his way there he almost passed out of weakness, and when he finally got to his destination, the hospital wasn't as he imagined. He was tested to his limits, and had some of the most painful experiences here. He makes another very important decision and ends up finding his way back to Mama for the first time in a long time.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Episode 8: Poison and Life in the Jungle– Robert continues to work and hunt for food whenever he can. One day, another guy in his group accidentally ate a bunch of poisonous berries out of deep starvation. He immediately became sick and Robert and some other group members needs to deal with the situation. Life in the jungle was so hard that Robert truly started to question his will to live.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Episode 7: Deadly Malaria– Because Robert was set in a labor camp in the middle of the jungle, there were many workers that not only died of starvation and overworking, but also sicknesses like Malaria. Robert pulls a memory stuck deep in his past about one of the guys who slept next to him during this time at this labor camp. It was a sad night and he was left to make an important decision to help this friend. This is one of the most important episodes on this podcast.
Warning: Get Tissues.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Episode 6: Separate the Kids – Robert gets separated from his family and starts walking towards an unknown destination. On the way, the Khmer Rouge pulls other kids to join. They finally arrive to a new camp that is close to the Thai Border. He planted rice fields by himself, and was constantly tired and hungry. Every night before going to bed, there was a meeting by the Khmer Rouge that enforces control over the people. Every morning they woke you up as they pleased and forced you to work. He felt like a prisoner.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
My aunt Amanda had a very different experience during the Khmer Rouge. She was hidden by my grandmother in fear of being taken away, therefore most of her time was spent in hiding. She talks about how life was like in the camps back where grandma was, and how grandma did what she had to do to keep her alive. This special episode is a fascinating look into what had to be done during the Khmer Rouge in order to stay alive.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Episode 5: Mama's Big Pockets – Robert’s mom (my grandma aka “Mama”), luckily gets assigned to work in the community kitchen giving her access to food. Mama lies to the Khmer Rouge soldier and registers only 5 people, when in fact she had 6. She hid my Aunt Amanda out of fear of having her getting taken away. Mama used her big pockets to steal food from the kitchen for her kids. During this time, people are dying from overworking in the field.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Episode 4: Labor Camp 1 – The Khmer Rouge starts organizing and registering people into groups. Robert’s uncle gained trust with the Khmer Rouge which helped protect the family for a while. People were forced to give up their own food and only eat at organized camp “cafeterias”. They organized the wealthy, educated and high - ranking folks from the others and killed them.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Episode 3: The Checkpoint – Robert gets home and the family is franticly trying to figure out the next game plan, however the Khmer Rouge soldiers take over faster than anyone can leave. They force everyone out of their own homes and force them into the countryside. Robert’s family decide to move back to grandma’s farmhouse. On the way, Robert recognizes his old friend in Khmer Rouge clothing who ends up betraying him.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Episode 2: The Beginning – Robert’s family was wealthy at the beginning of the Khmer Rouge. When he started hearing about political turmoil, his parents told him to cross the border to Thailand or come home. In Battambang, he had his first violent encounters with the Khmer Rouge and witnessed the beginning of group slaughters. That’s when he decided he couldn’t stay in the city Battambang and needed to quickly figure out any way back home.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Episode 1: Robert Childhood - was born in 1959 in Mongol Borey, Cambodia. Because his parents were living in another city, working, he stayed with his grandparents. During this time, he experienced loneliness and didn’t quite understand why his parents left him alone to live far away from his siblings. Because of this, he had to learn how to take care of himself, to be strong minded and to be independent.
Music Written By: Acerylio Chen
Labor Day 2020, I shoved a mic in front of my dad and tested the podcast set up. This is the very first clip we ever recorded. "Testing Testing... 123 Testing".
Are you ready?