Live from the Book Shop: John Updike's Ghost: Recent Episodes

Hannah Harlow and Sam Pfeifle

Sibling bookstore owners Hannah Harlow and Sam Pfeifle call each other up at random hours and talk about what they're reading and what they're psyched is coming out next, plus discuss some book news of the day. It doesn't get much more bookish than when a publishing executive and MFA in Creative Writing buys a bookstore with an English teacher and journalist.

Opening theme song sung by Ruby Pfeifle, Julie Sanborn, and Madison Doughty.

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The front window has been well decorated by mom and dad, the Polar Expresses have been ordered, and it is officially Holiday Season. So, what books are you going to buy for your friends and families? Well, let us tell you: - "James," by Percival Everett, Hannah's pick for book of the year (even if it didn't win the Booker). - "Orbital," by Samantha Harvey, which Sam somehow hasn't read yet, but is about astronauts and what it's like to be human (also, it's "James S A Corey," the fake name of two guys who wrote the Expanse series, not "S A Andrews" who doesn't seem to be a person). - "Lazarus Man," by Richard Price, which should be big, by all rights, but who knows? Seems like a good book for literary dudes. - "The Serviceberry," by Robin Wall Kimmerer, which is great for the right open-minded reader. They have to be anti-capitalist, probably. - "The Backyard Bird Chronicles," by Amy Tan, who is very much alive despite having been in a band with Stephen King in the 1990s, we think. We also use the word "flexi-bound" in describing this book. - "The Boston Globe Story of the Celtics," by Chad Finn, who really lucked out with the Cs winning the championship just as he was finishing up. - "Why We Love Football," by Joe Posnanski, a follow-up to "The Baseball 100," which is easily digestible and fits with the attention spans of teenaged boys. - "Be Ready When the Luck Happens," by Ina Garten, a memoir by the super-famous chef, who Sam has never encountered in any way for some reason. This involves a sidebar on Martha Stewart. - "Heartbreak Is the National Anthem," by Rob Sheffield, which is shaping up to be one of the first important examinations of what Taylor Swift means for the future of popular music. - "Small Things Like These," by Claire Keegan, which is going to be even huger, now that there's a movie. - "Say Nothing," by Patrick Radden Keefe, which is going to be even huger, now that there's a limited series. - "Wicked," by Gregory Maguire, which is going to be even huger, now that there's a movie, and may get you to buy others of his books, which will likely disappoint you. - "The Women," by Kristen Hannah, which is emerging as maybe Hannah's most important book, dealing with the Vietnam War as it does and speaking to women about that time in a unique way. - "Impossible Creatures," by Katherine Rundell, which is emerging as the best book for middle schoolers of the season.

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It's getting cold, the election season has been busy, and we're reading books all over the map. Sam's on a philosophical bent and just saw "The Wild Robot"; Hannah's mildly unprepared, but rallies. All told, we tackle: - "The Other Valley," by Scott Alexander Howard, which explores regret, but has some weird world-building. - "Blood Test," by Charles Baxter, who you should know, and has penned a story about a blood test for propensity for murder. - "Interview with the Vampire," by Anne Rice, which holds up great and is not an easy book and engages with serious philosophical questions. - "Colored Television," by Danzy Senna, about middled-aged artists who get to pretend to be rich and make bad choices. - "The Wild Robot," by Peter Brown, which we talk about mostly because Sam saw the movie. It's not as good as the book. Shocker! And then we finish up with some Christmas stuff because Matt Tavares is coming to the Farms on Dec. 7, which will be great.

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High on the success of the Boozy Book Fair (it was, according to Sam, "really banging"), a great in-shop reading and signing, and a couple days off for Indigenous Peoples Day, Sam and Hannah are in a mood, with nothing to complain about. Also, no dudes allowed, this week, with a shout out to the guy who really likes Rachel Kushner. - "The Time Keepers," by Alyson Richman, which, sorry, is rather maudlin and bad. It's not a time travel book. - "The Plot," by Jean Hanff Korelitz, which Hannah read mostly because "The Sequel" just came out. The second half was entertaining, anyway. - "The Road to Dalton" and "Where the River Meets the Sea," by Shannon Bowring, a librarian who grew up in the County in Maine. You really should have come to see her speak a couple weeks ago. - "Deep Cuts," by Holly Brickley, which comes out in, like, February, but it was the bottom of the TBR pile and about a fictional music writer, so Sam read it anyway. It's a major nostalgia trip if you ... like music. - "From Here to the Great Unknown" (not, actually, "From Here to Eternity"), by Lisa Marie Presley and Riley Keough. Hannah actually listened to it, mostly because Julia Roberts is the narrator, but also really enjoyed it.

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The road in front of the Book Shop is freshly paved and Sam and Hannah are all sorts of amped up about it. No, you didn't screw up and set it to 1.5x. We're just talking really fast about: - "Factory Summers," by Guy Delisle. Sam's daughter gave him this graphic novel and it is properly obscure and entertaining. It doesn't smell bad, even though it's about papermaking. - "Full Speed to a Crash Landing," by Beth Revis. It's sorta like the Murderbot series, but without the body count, and the first in a trilogy. - "The Lodge," by Kayla Olson. Sam's reading cosy romances about skiing. There isn't even any sex. It's "set" at Stowe, but it's unclear whether the author has ever been to Vermont (but Sam is wrong that there is, indeed, a gondola at Stowe. Sorry). - "Death at the Sign of the Rook," by Kate Atkinson. The new Jackson Brodie book! He's in his 70s now, but doesn't play pickleball. - "The River," by Peter Heller. Hannah's been talking about how amazing Peter is. Sam had to investigate. It's really, really good. The hype is true.

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Have we read all of the NBA fiction longlist books? We have not. Do we have thoughts on the ones we have read? We do! Jessica Anthony! Amazing! But we also read a bunch of other books for this episode, even if Sam has trouble remembering which ones (much as he could not remember the word "seersucker"). Here's what's on tap: - All of the National Book Award Longlist for Fiction. Find it here. A lot of great choices; a few headscratchers! - "The Life Impossible," by Matt Haig. It's uplifting! About grief and getting past it. - More on "The Light Pirate," which starts kind of boring but gets awesome. - "You Are Here," by David Nicholls. Yes, now Sam has read it, too. - "Brooklyn," by Colm Tóibín. Hannah's not sure why people love it so much. What is she missing? - "Clark and Division," by Naomi Hirahara. Sam doesn't like historical fiction, but he likes this.

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Sam is well outside his comfort zone this week, with a read of his first Nicholas Sparks book (it's not terrible!), and a GMA Book Club pick. Hannah's got an early line on the new Sally Rooney. And that's just the tip of the iceberg! Here's what's on tap: - "Counting Miracles," by Nicholas Sparks (lots of Bible stuff!) - "Intermezzo," by Sally Rooney (it's "very excellent," if imperfect — everyone thinks the same) - "The Light Pirate," by Lily Brooks-Dalton (a strong climate disaster novel) - "Burn," by Peter Heller (it's a Maine book, turns out Sam's wrong and out-of-staters do get 8% of moose hunting permits; still don't think Maine's going to secede) - "Westfallen," by Ann and Ben Brashares (some dark-ass stuff for middle readers) - "The Serviceberry," by Robin Wall Kimmerer (here comes some anti-capitalism!)

If you liked "Braiding Sweetgrass," you won't be disappointed in Robin's latest.

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The Emotional Support Chicken has been named — Page Turner won out — and Hannah and Sam are satisfied with the results. Can the same be said for the books they've read this week? Yes and no. Here's what's on tap: - "Tell Me Everything," by Elizabeth Strout (shoutout, Emma Straub) - "Shift," by Hugh Howey (with some Common commentary) - "Long Island Compromise," by Taffy Brodesser-Akner (Hannah "frickin' loves this book") - "Caliban's War," by James S. A. Corey (audiobook, specifically) - "On the Calculation of Volume, 1," by Solvej Balle (spoiler alerts on this one, we guess)

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Hannah's been on vacation, where she read her pants off. She's got books. And she and Sam have a bet as to whether any of you will take advantage of the big discount code embedded in this episode. We'll see what happens. As for books, we tackle: - "Margo's Got Money Troubles," by Rufi Thorpe - "The Most," by Jessica Anthony - "Death at the Sanitorium," by Ragnar Jónasson - "Creation Lake," by Rachel Kushner - "You Are Here," by David Nicholls Then we finish up with a thought experiment on why book sequels don't use a "II," live movies.

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We may not be winning the SEO battle, but we're reading some cool books this summer, including the latest from Laura Dave, who has a standard cover treatment for a reason. People are looking for the next one! Then it's on to ultra-feminist badass Kathleen Hanna (Carrie Brownstein was in Sleater-Kinney, sorry Sam couldn't remember), whose "Riot Girl" is a must read for music fans and feminists alike. Kurt Cobain stories! Next up is a "speculative" novel "Hum," by Helen Phillips, which pulls a switcheroo on you, opening with some future tech, but finishing with a story that's just an exploration of the family unit, aka a "mom novel." It'll make you rush back to the first page when you hit the end. You know exactly what happens at the end of "Big Time," by Ben Winters, which might not be as good as "Golden State," but is still a tidy little piece of near-future science fiction (what we now apparently call "speculative fiction"). And then we finish up with "The Wedding People," which would never happen in real life, but that's why we read fiction, right?

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Dock sitting for the July 4 extended weekend means we've got books to talk about! Hannah pulled Peter Heller's "The Guide" off the camp shelves and found herself thinking, "the writing is so insanely beautiful." Pretty high praise. Heller even makes fly-fishing enthralling — she read it in a day. Meanwhile, Sam was consumed for multiple days with Lev Grossman's brand-new "The Bright Sword," a new take on the Arthurian legend that runs a thousand pages or so, but still reads quick. If you're a "Magicians" fan, you'll love this — even if things are getting more and more earnest nowadays. Next up is "Trust Her," a follow up to Flynn Berry's "Northern Spy," a domestic story of the IRA in the 1980s. Hannah loved the first book; this one could have gotten started a little quicker. Sam had no such qualms about "Banal Nightmare," an early candidate for his favorite book of the year. Dang, it's funny. Halle Butler can bring it. Hannah is less enthused by "One of Our Kind," by Nicola Yoon, which just was too predictable and familiar to land, despite great sentence-level work. Hanif Abdurraqib's "There's Always This Year," on the other hand, is an important work you probably need to read right now if you're interested in explorations of Black culture. Sam loves it. So much to chew on this week!

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Sam has been doing research into the family tree, which is largely irrelevent, but does have him fired up to talk books. Hannah's right there with him, with brand-new reads hot off the presses. But we're not quite done with "Fire Exit" yet and start things out with some closing thoughts and a great deal more context (the Press Herald reviewer that we mention is named Genanne Walsh). With that sorted, we've got a quick overview of some summer reads by North Shore authors, a look at the brand-new "Choice" from Booker-nominated Neel Mukherjee (who skewers the well-meaning liberal), and Hannah raves about Catherine Newman's brand-new and very funny "Sandwich." It's a triple entendre. She likes it almost as much as Sam likes "Lexicon," a 10-year-old novel that asks us to consider why people are persuasive and why we're eager to be persuaded. Finally, we wrap with the very strong "God of the Woods," by Liz Moore, about a summer camp gone wrong (we're going with "literary mystery") in 1975; plus a sneak peek at the new Halle Butler. Find some great books for your July 4 time in the beach chair!

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It's summer for real now, and we're hyped for our upcoming event at Hastings House in Beverly Farms, featuring four summer-read authors. This is a legit literary genre at this point, folks. So we fire things up with Elin Hilderbrand's final (maybe) summer novel, fittingly titled "Swan Song." What makes this new literary tradition so attractive? Sam and Hannah both have thoughts, comparing her to Edith Wharton and Jane Austen. She's incredibly efficient in setting a scene and establishing character, and even created a collective first person that's incredibly effective. It leads to a discussion on voice, especially in "Fire Exit," Morgan Talty's new gritty and real novel about identity and family. It's a special novel, for sure, and you should expect it to be on all the awards lists at the end of the year. How intimately linked are our identities to our DNA? "Becoming Little Shell" has some non-fiction thoughts on this as well. We go on and on about this, kinda. It's really good. Hannah is less enthused by "The Return of Ellie Black," by Emiko Jean, which she listened to and felt a little bit like masochism. But she did get hooked and wanted to figure out what happpens. It's a lot different from her "Tokyo Ever After," a very sweet YA book. Definitely not sweet is "The Book of Elsewhere," a book co-written by none other than Keanu Reeves and China Mieville, which is really violent, but also super interesting and thoughtful. After powering through the beginning, Sam kinda loved it. Finally, Hannah has just finished "A Good Life," a bestseller from France now in translation about two sisters in the French countryside who teamed up to survive their mom.

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Hannah and Sam are at Clearwater Pond on Memorial Day Weekend and they are ready to rock and roll for summer's many hours of lazy water-side reading. First up is Ann Hood, pride of Rhode Island, and her "The Stolen Child," which features travels to France and Italy with a pair of mis-matched travelers who develop a deep and abiding friendship and is quite charming. This leads to the really-quite-feminist 1939 novel "The Damned Don't Cry," by Harry Hervey, which you can only really get in Savannah. Sorry. But it's awesome. Sam loves it. Like a pre-WW2 Kristin Hannah. In a good way. And totally the opposite from "The Search Party," the new thriller from Hannah Richell, where college friends get together and someone's dead and they've been cut off from the outside world. It's entertaining! It keeps you guessing! That's less true of Monica Wood's new "How To Read a Book," which is very Maine, and that might make it more your flavor than it is Sam's, since it's a little too familiar to seem real if you live there. It's like watching a Disney version of your actual life. Finally, Hannah's got "Pink Whales," a classic summer read by Sara Shukla, who's written a novel about a summer in a spot much like Beverly Farms. It's fun. Lots of juicy gossip!

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Hannah is at the New England Independent Booksellers Association Spring Fling (or something like that), and it's a late-night recording to beat the band. Mostly, both Hannah and Sam are fired up about the release of "Ministry of Time," which they've been wanting to talk about since they read it as an advanced-reading copy. Yes, it's a time travel book, but we never really leave this time, so don't get scared. We promise: It's not sci-fi! (Or, of course it is, if you like that sort of thing.) But we've also got thoughts on "Real Americans," an obscure Marvin Gaye biography, the big hit Bulgarian book of 2012, and "Sipsworth," which is about an old woman who makes friend with a mouse, but isn't as boring as that sounds.

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It's a special edition of "John Updike's Ghost," recorded live from the Newburyport Literary Festival, with special guests Jami Attenberg and Steve Almond, veteran authors who have both penned great new books about writing. Steve's "Truth Is the Arrow, Mercy Is the Bow," is an instruction manual that allows for failure along the way; Jami's "1000 Words," an outgrowth of the writing community Jami has built largely on Twitter, offers encouragement and advice on moving forward. But how does being in the writing community affect how you read? Jami and Steve both have great thoughts about how that works and tons of titles to discuss. If you're looking for a big discussion of cultural mores, deconstructionism, separating the art from the artist, hate-reading, working with young writers, the joy of children's books, capitalism getting into the ears of writers, and so much more. If you're looking for a wide-ranging and heady literary discussion, this is it!

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Hannah has absconded to New York City, but no one will go to the Beatrix Potter exhibit with her. Such a shame. No matter! We're fired up about the Newburyport Literary Festival, and ready to talk books, starting with a recap of Leigh Bardugo's brand-new "The Familiar," which Sam has decided he likes quite a bit. Maybe not quite as much as both of us like "The Secret Commonwealth," but not everyone can be Philip Pullman. Dude is just unparalleled in his ability to ask giant questions (religion! fascism!) with effortless storytelling.  Not sure Sam would say the same about Christine Ma-Kellams, whose debut novel, "The Band," is among the strangest books he's ever read and he's not quite sure what to make of it. If you at least know what we mean when we say "K-Pop," you might be into it. But Hannah is super into "I Cheerfully Refuse," the latest from Leif Enger and a novel that offers a bit of hope-punk future along with multiple sentence that just hit you right in the chest. Finally, we wrap with a look at John Le Carre's "Call for the Dead," which is a George Smiley novel, and Sam now knows that Smiley is, indeed, his greatest recurring character. If you haven't read a book from 1961 in a while, give it a shot. It's a good way to get influencer culture off the palate.

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Just off a big night out on the town in Beverly, Hannah and Sam are focused on brand-new releases, of a wide variety, plus an older book that is very much NOT related to the website it shares a name with. That book is "Storm Front," the first in Jim Butcher's Dresden Files series, an older book (2000) recommended to Hannah by a customer, which has a great combination of noir and magic, but also some tawdry sex, which is mildly offputting. Orgies! Which provides a transition to "A Short Walk Through a Wide World," the debut novel from librarian Douglas Westerbeke, which has some odd sex scenes and lots of bloodiness, but not a lot of plot. That leads to "Rainbow Black," by Maggie Thrash, a Satanic Panic story where our main character finds her parents in the clink for Satanism. It's a little witch-hunty. That leads us back in time to "Clear," a story where you learn all about Scottish history and how the landed gentry were evil bastards, but Sam is highly skeptical of the way it all wraps up. It reminds Hannah of "The Colony." But also of "The Safekeep," which Hannah dubs, "fantastic." It comes out in late May. Look for the big twist! Finally, Sam wraps up with some thoughts on the new Leigh Bardugo adult novel, "The Familiar." He enjoys it so far and isn't clear on why Hannah was down on it. Better than "Ninth House" and "Hell Bent," anyway.

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It's a late-night edition of John Updike's Ghost and Hannah and Sam are ready to rock and roll. First up is Tana French's new thriller, "The Hunter," a follow up to "The Searcher," which Hannah hasn't read, but she wasn't bothered by this. Brilliant audiobook experience. Sticking with violent acts, Sam talks about how seeing the new Bob Marley movie (awesome) got him reading Marlon James' "A Brief History of Seven Killings" (also awesome), and how they make an amazing one-two punch. Also involving people getting shot and not dying, but a little closer to home, Hannah has read "All Souls," by Michal Patrick MacDonald, a story of growing up in Southie in the late 1970s (busing! racists!), which was a great community, but ultimately really not great (though does trigger Sam doing his Southie accent). And speaking of bad communities that probably felt good at the time, Sam has read the new Pete Rose book, "Charlie Hustle," by Keith O'Brien ("Fly Girls," "Paradise Falls"), and is excited to talk about it with Keith and Chad Finn at the Newburyport Literary Festival. Do you like Pete Rose? Read this book and see if that's still true (also, Sam mentions "Big Red Machine," but the book is actually just called "The Machine"). Finally, Hannah LOVES "James," the new re-telling of Huckleberry Finn, from Percival Everett. You need to read it now, whether you've read the Mark Twain recently, or not at all. Are you one of those readers who thinks Finn is too sacred retell? Don't be. Oh, and there's a coda for "Holly," where Sam explains why it's not as bad as he thought (the "other book" is "If It Bleeds," short stories).

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Is March Fourth a "declarative sentence"? No, Sam, it's an imperative sentence. But it's Hannah's birthday and at least he remembered that, if not his grammar lessons. Not to worry, though, this episode is chock full of weighty discussion, starting with "Women and Children First," the biography of the pioneering Dr. Susan Dimock (with a side bar on the enshittification of Google), and the subject of our first Sunday Salon on March 10 in Beverly Farms. From there, we head into discussion of a cool little collection of Jonathan Lethem essays, interviews, and short stories from PM Press, which got Sam buzzing, and not just because Lethem is living in Maine right now. This leads to a solid discussion of what makes for a good interview (or a bad one) — and that dovetails perfectly into Hannah's read of "Supercommunicators," by Charles Duhigg, which leads into a discussion of ski instructors who could really use the book and communication techniques that may seem obvious, but also work. Someone who doesn't need much advice about communication is Philip Pullman, whose "The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ" is a triumph and has Sam very excited, despite the fact it was released 13 years ago. He's not sure how he missed it. If you're interested in mythmaking and Christianity's core stories, you have to read it. And, speaking of mythmaking, Hannah has read the new Katherine Arden, "The Warm Hands of Ghosts," and it does seem to deliver on all of her promise from the "Bear and the Nightingale" trilogy, which makes Sam hyperbolic. It's dark and makes clear that war is, indeed, very bad. The new Stephen King, though? Yeah, it's also pretty bad. Sam's going to finish "Holly," but he's not sure why. The phrase "social commentary for three-year-olds" may have been uttered. However, it does trigger a pretty good discussion about whether you can write a good book that's only for a certain subset of people or if truly good books are "for everyone." Like Paul Lynch's "Prophet Song," which everyone really needs to read. As a reminder.

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Hannah is back from Winter Institute and she has all sorts of thoughts on the state of the bookselling industry (900 booksellers in the same place is NOT illegal, it turns out). She's not sure she's a hero, exactly, but not every bookseller is in tony Beverly Farms. Also, it turns out she didn't learn all that much about what's coming down the pipeline, but she did get a little jazzed about "Our Hidden Conversations," by Michele Norris, and she's really jazzed about "The Other Valley," the debut novel from Scott Alexander Howard (it's "speculative," which is apparently "all the genres that depart from realism"), who studied philosophy at the University of Toronto. Depending on your view of the current state of the world, you might find Paul Lynch's "Prophet Song" either speculative or all-too-realistic — Sam loves it. A look at the domestic side of fascism's rise that forces you to consider what happens when it comes to your front door. Even more dystopian is "Earth Abides," George R. Stewart's classic from 1949, which is back in print and in development for an Amazon series. You may feel like you've read it before, but that's because it spawned a ton of imitators. Thanks to Cincinnati's Downbound Books for the find! Finally, Sam can't figure out why Colson Whitehead's "Crook Manifesto" didn't hit the way "Harlem Shuffle" did. It's great, a continuation of Whitehead's exploration of the mid-century Harlem underground with his trademark sentence-level excellence and expert ability to show, not tell.

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Sam has covid, but it's been a good four-year run of not getting it, and it's an easy way to remember it's our fourth anniversary of buying the Book Shop. We start off this week with a little look back on things we didn't expect when we got into this mess (why are publishers so mean? How do you stock all the books that people want?), and then launch into a book discussion proper. First up is Lois Lowry's classic, "The Giver," which is an absolute banger that you need to read right now if you haven't already. And probably even if you have. Second is Hannah's effort to brand "Joan January," whereby she reads Joan Didion at the beginning of each year, and this year it's "A Book of Common Prayer," an odd little novel from the 1970s that reminds Hannah of Gatsby and would be a good book club book. Then Sam is back in middle school for "The Glass Sentence." by S.E. Grove, which is a triumph and he was happy to read again. Magic maps! We're doing a whole new paragraph now, because next up is "A Love Song for Ricki Wilde," by Tia Williams, for which we have no transition, but Hannah is listening to and loves the dialog. Great V-Day book. And it's got a little vodou, just like "Devil Makes Three," which Sam didn't get and stopped reading. Oh well. You might like it if you like Haitian history and the CIA. Luckily, Hannah has just read most of "The Orchard," by Adele Crockett Robertson, which she really likes, and is based in Ipswich, and features a much more realistic badass woman. Finally, we finish up with some Pullman, some Winter Institute, and some self-promotion. Don't miss it! (Also, at the end, there is a rare instance where Sam actually remembers something correctly, and Hannah is wrong.)

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Sam is just back from Dallas, where he visited Interabang Books and learned of Dallas writer Ben Fountain, and so has his brand-new "Devil Makes Three," instead of a Larry McMurtry book. In the meantime, Hannah has read the new Kelly Link, "The Book of Love," which she is big-time into ("It was so. good."), which leads into a discussion of why we like books about magic, including magic and dragons, like the new "Murtagh," after a quick sidebar on Hannah's twisted ankle. That leads to talk about books on airplanes, books that 17-year-old boys like, the NYT 10 best books of the year, and then the very-well-narrated new Kiley Reid audiobook, "Come and Get It." Sophomore efforts can be difficult, but the book did get Hannah to say "denouement." Finally, a quick note about a great book for family purchases, which leads to a chat about the Newbury Medal-winning "The Eyes & the Impossible," which Sam really liked. Oh, also, George Harrison was kinda weird.

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After a quick treatise on the Murderbot Diaries, Sam's all jazzed up about the new release coming in February from Kirsten Bakis, who has taken 25 years to release a second novel after the revelatory "Lives of the Monster Dogs." A classic gothic tale, "King Nyx" is a creepy feminist text you need to read ASAP. Unfortunately, Hannah is less jazzed about the new Alex Michaelides, "The Fury," which Hannah found at times "unacceptable." Just how much unreliable narrator can one book have? And just how many islands are there in the world? Seems like every novel is set on one nowadays, including Rachel Lyon's "Fruit of the Dead," which is, like King Nyx, is on an island and features some Hades mythology. Maybe islands make things intersting, since Hannah thought "Mercury," set in middle America, was kinda boring, with not much happening. Is this only set in the '90s so Amy Jo Burns didn't have to deal with phones? It's unclear. Then we get into a bit of a grab bag, including a graphic novel in the Grishaverse; a new YA amnesia number called "That's Not My Name" that Hannah found satisfying; the new George Harrison biography; and a book by a fantasy writer called "Listen" about how and why we listen to music. Finally, we wrap up with a tease of Kelly Link's debut novel, which, WATCH OUT.

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Christmas is over and we've got some time to relax (especially since no one gave Hannah any books for Christmas, though she bought herself "Mistletoe Malice," not "Mistletoe Mayhem," as she says on the pod, as a present to herself). That means, we've got our lists ready — 12 books each, and maybe some more — of favorite books of the past year! We start with literary novels (we're not going to list them all here in the description; see the pod home page for the full list) and then move into sort-of genre books, which can be literary (is "Chain Gang All-Stars" dystopian? Um, yes). That leads to some books that are funny and literary and satisfying, which are fun, with smaller problems. Then we finish up with historical fiction (which is probably literary, as well, to be honest) and YA (which is probably the most literary of the YA we read), before finishing up with some non-fiction, since we felt like we had to include some. In all, we talk about more than 30 books!

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This week, we're in the thick of it, busy with all the things the holiday season brings to little retail shops like ours. It's a stressful time. So, Sam's been reading the Magicians, along with the Magician King and the Magician's Land, as a bit of comfort reading. He's discovered he's not being mocked by them. But don't worry! Hannah's been reading more substantive fare, including "We Must Not Think of Ourselves," which left her "really seriously crying, in a way that I love." Author Lauren Grodstein is her former writing teacher from Brooklyn, too. Then we get into a little segue on buying poetry — Sam's been reading Betsy Sholl and Phil Kaye and enjoying them immensely. In her audiobook listening this week, Hannah was a bit underwhelmed by "The Other Half," a mystery that has what feels like a betrayal at the end, but "The Frozen River," by Ariel Lawhon, a book set in Hallowell, Maine (though it wasn't Maine yet), is a lot more enjoyable, with a midwife, and a murder trial, and so much more. Just give it some time to get past the archaic dialogue.

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This week, it's nothing but naked capitalism, as Sam and Hannah challenge each other to suggest the ideal book-gifts for all your potential giftees. Of course, Hannah's in the mobbed bookstore, so a little stressed and nervous for this challenge. The mail is even being delivered as we record. Crazy stuff. Seriously, though, we've got great ideas for: * Your teenaged niece or nephew (Sam really did tear up during this read; but he misremembered and someone does, in fact, die). * Your voraciously reading mom/teacher/hostess (Clarie Keegan!). * The sports-loving dude in your life. * The chef in your life who's already got all the basics (get loose in the kitchen with Erin French!). * Your music-loving uncle (Sam does, in fact, know that Neil Peart was the drummer for Rush). * Anyone who has a coffee table (Dolly! Willie!). * Anyone looking for something trashy (who isn't?). * Someone how loves Christmas mysteries (who doesn't?), or mysteries of any kind. * Someone who already has "The Boy, the Mole, the Fox and the Horse" (or anyone going off to college or otherwise needing life advice). * Your grumpy grandfather, who still cares deeply about WW2. * Your aging parents. No, really. * The children in your life (very young, young, and middle readers — lots of ideas!).

Really, we've got ideas for everyone on your list this giving season. Listen up!

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This week, Hannah and Sam are just back from the New England Crime Bake, where crime-fiction authors gather, along with murder consultants and the like — don't miss people like Elly Griffiths, Deborah Crombie (the new one was "A Killing of Innocents"), and Chris Fabricant, who calls into question the way prosecutors use evidence in "Junk Science." Then we move into Hannah's love for "The Unmaking of June Farrow," by Adrienne Young, which has strong "Time Traveler's Wife" vibes, with time travel, romance, and mystery. Don't worry: It's not like "The Girl on the Train." Sam isn't quite as enamored with the new Paul Auster book, "Baumgartner," and is mildly troubled by the fact he's read three books this year, now, that feature 70-year-old men having sex. Sam says it's like "Wonder Boys" without any weed (Auster's book about a man whose sons and wife have died is "Book of Illusions," FYI). On the other hand, Hannah also loves "Down Here We Come Up," Sara Johnson Allen's debut novel, and not just because Sara lives in Ipswich. You can tell, in a good way, that Sara worked on the book for 15 years, a story of con artists and heart. Unfortunately, Sam follows with a couple books he just couldn't finish. Meh. Lessons learned. Not for him. Luckily, Hannah rescues the vibe with "Hotel Nantucket," her Elin Hilderbrand dive in preparation for our big event (it's not much like "Hotel New Hampshire," though), and Sam does like the new John Prine book (don't know who John Prine is? Ho boy, you're in luck). We're all over the map this week, folks, but next week we're doing a "gift-giving" thing, so stay tuned.

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For the first time recording in the ... afternoon ... Hannah and Sam are perhaps more lucid than normal and have a lot of books to chat about after a brief sidebar on Reddit posting (Sam's getting tooled on). First up is "The Future," from Naomi Alderman, which is an important novel that people really need to read, a commentary on where we are and where we're going that Sam highly recommends. Why are we still using social media, again? Next up is "Starling House," by Alix Harrow, a piece of "horror-light" that took Hannah a bit to warm up to. Then we hear about Sam's new project taking out new books from the library, which he has already violated by going back in time to read the first book in Christopher Paolini's "Fractalverse" series, "To Sleep in a Sea of Stars," which is VERY long and has lots of scenes with people eating in space, but Sam generally liked as impressive new science fiction. Hannah's reading a different kind of book with stars in the title, Tommy Orange's new "Wandering Stars," which is a highly anticipated follow up to "There There" (a novel, not short stories, as Sam believed). It's another must-read, if not an easy read, a multi-generational look at the Native American experience in the United States that makes a nice pair with Jesmyn Ward's new "Let Us Descend." This is how you grapple with the horrors of our history. Then we transition into "Lazy City," which Sam says is like a Gen Z "Bright Lights Big City," a look at the culture of people in Belfast, Ireland, in their 20s, with all the dating and partying you might imagine. It's bleak, but a great read for understanding "what's going on with the kids these days." Watch out, though, there are no quotation marks. But, wait, there's more! Hannah listened to Britney's memoir — read by Michelle Williams! It's amazing. But the people around Britney are despicable. And, finally, Sam sings the praises of "Of Boys and Men," an examination by Richard Reeves of why men are struggling in today's society, and why policymakers aren't doing anything about it.

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After embarrassing himself by trying and failing to give Mark Zuckerberg money, Sam describes his first experience with reading Kristin Hannah, in particular her upcoming "The Women," which is about nurses in Vietnam, and shares some qualities with "A Little Life," for good and ill. If you don't have a great feel for post-Vietnam U.S. culture, this is a solid read. And guess what? Hannah's reading the new Alice McDermott book, "Absolution," which is ALSO set in Vietnam. And is maybe a little more literary. Are there truly any selfless acts? Maybe see what Kurt Vonnegut thinks; the graphic-novel adaptation of "Slaughterhouse Five" is a triumph. It's hard not to think it was written yesterday, sometimes, particularly in the context of what's happening now in Israel-Palestine. For lighter fare, Hannah has read "West Heart Kill," a murder mystery set at a hunt club, with some fourth-wall interludes that's a bit mansplainy. Finally, Sam reads an actual romance for the first time, a first adult romance from the young-adult National Book Award-winning Kacen Callender, who has written what is very much not a YA book. Sam is largely charmed, even if he's outside his comfort zone.

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Big things are afoot in the Book Shop — new shelving! With that highly engaging development discussed, we move on to chat about the newest from Melissa Broder ("Death Valley" is very meta, a treatise on grief, but we've had similar journeys) and Keigo Higashino ("A Death in Tokyo"; if you like procedurals, this is the Japanese master of the form). Plus, Hannah has picked up last year's "The Twyford Code," which doesn't involve magicians, but does involve the death of a children's author during WW2 and lots of transcribed audio recordings. And it's "mind tingling." The book Sam is reminded of is, indeed, called "The Puzzle Master." Finally, Hannah discovers she actually worked with some of the folks featured in Kristi Coulter's new memoir, "Exit Interview," about rising and falling at Amazon, which is just as bonkers and evil as you think it is. This leads to a pretty wonky discussion about the history of Amazon as a publisher and deals with the devil publishers had to make. But Amazon sorta failed and that was awesome. Oh, and RIP Tim Wakefield — his death at 57 is a very unfair thing. (And prepare yourself for the "pause," which is proof we actually have customers come in sometimes.)

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Indeed, it's our 50th episode, which is a wicked big deal, and Sam and Hannah are high on the successful Andre Dubus III event they have just completed, and so you get a recaap of that and some behind-the-scenes stuff (he is very charming; throws out Ezra Pound quotes off the top of his head), but no worries, we quickly move into talk of similar dude-lit writer Richard Ford's "Be Mine," the third Frank Bascombe book. It touches off a discussion of the "shitty dad" trope and the relative rarity of father-son stories in contemporary lit. Just because you're privileged doesn't mean bad things don't happen to you and you don't deserve empathy (but not Jann Wenner; that guy deserves ridicule). But it's not all quite that serious — Hannah just read "Business or Pleasure," which is about just what you think it is (a ghostwriter hooks up with her boss and teaches him how to have sex; that's what you thought, right?). Just make sure you keep the windows rolled up for the audiobook. And "North Woods," by Daniel Mason, is seriously good, but way too weird to be "serious." Sam praises it as "like a David Mitchel novel." Finally, we wrap with the new "Square of Sevens," the plot of which reminds Sam of Zadie Smith's new novel (but with a lot of fortune telling), and a BIG ANNOUNCEMENT.

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Okay, so we don't actually, like, have Governor Janet Mills on the pod, but Sam's reading the book that just came out with her letters and journal from the first year of the pandemic, "In Other Words, Leadership," and she hangs out near us in the summer, so that's close enough. Is she the biggest hippy of any governor in the U.S.? Also, we've got our hands on the new Zadie Smith and it's ... something. Meanwhile, Hannah's a little grumpy about the coffee situation (black tea is not cutting it), but has been reading the new story of women in the Civil War, "Night Watch," which she loves (despite its voicey voice; not the Terry Pratchett novel). Plus, she's all about the new "Dayswork," which is written by a couple about a couple researching literary couples. Very meta. Perhaps the most cohesive episode we've ever done, though we didn't plan it that way. 

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With car issues in the rearview mirror, it's JUG After Dark and Hannah and Sam are feeling frisky even though it's Bad Car Summer, even providing a little primer on not paying Jeff Bezos money. After that, Sam loves "The Impossible Fortress," an ode to 1980s nerd culture (and Vanna White), and it turns out it's actually been released by a U.S. publisher. Then Hannah really likes "The House of Doors," recently long-listed for the Booker Prize, and out on October 17, which features Somerset Maugham in Malaysia. Sam is less than thrilled with the Martha McPhee memoir, though, possibly because he is not the target audience. Hannah thought it might be good, but she was wrong. Luckily, Josh Cook's new "Art of Libromancy" is a killer new collection of essays about the selling of books and how readers work. If you know Porter Square Books, you need to read this. We're giving it to our booksellers. And Sam loved local Rebekah Bergman's "The Museum of Human History," which he describes as a mashup of Emily St. John Mandel and Murakami. Don't miss this one. Hannah tempers his excitement by noting it's getting late, she needs to ride a bike in the morning. 

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This week, after a rumination on whether there's a bookstore-owner Barbie, Sam and Hannah go in on some big brands in literature: Dennis Lehane (Sam finds the many racial slurs a little much and the "strong female lead" a cartoon), Ann Patchett (Hannah is charmed, but perhaps influenced by audiobook narrator Meryl Streep), Dave Eggers (his new middle-readers book is a delight), Helen Macdonald (she does sci-fi now!), and Nana Kwame Adjei-Brenyah ("Friday Black" is way more nuanced than the coverage it got, we think). Finally, things wrap up with some brand-new literary horror ("Looking Glass Sound," which is set in Maine, home to the "Speak All Evil" podcast) and some further thoughts on "House in the Cerulean Sea," just because.

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This week, Sam's in Aruba, and despite trying to bring fun and light fare on vacation, he has been unable to break his string of very violent reads, starting with "Recursion," by Blake Crouch, where everyone dies a lot, and which is a lot like "Edge of Tomorrow," a Tom Cruise movie Sam and Hannah both like. Somehow, this triggers a discussion of Sam's in-development sci-fi novel. Then Hannah starts talking about Emma Cline's "The Guest" for no good reason; Cline's a hot new writer and Hannah liked "The Girls," her last novel. Nothing really happens, but it's good. And it leads to a discussion of Sam's issues with "The House in the Cerulean Sea," even though he's not done with it. This leads to a discussion of what exactly a "big gay blanket" is, as a seque into "Lush Lives," by J Vanessa Lyon, the first Roxanne Gay-imprint book (which Hannah sort of forgot she'd talked about before). This causes Sam to remind her that people can have sex without anything being funny about it and be reminded of "Warrior Girl Unearthed." Also not really funny, and definitely violent, is "Essex Dogs," the new historical fiction from history podcaster Dan Jones, which Sam took out of the library. The war reference reminds Hannah of "Thin Skin," the new book of anti-capitalist essays from Jenn Shapland, which sounds awesome, and Sam has researched that these essays are original to the collection and not for anyone else (per instructions). 

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Hannah and Sam are once again at Camp, by the magical healing waters of Clearwater Pond, and there has been a lot of reading going on (plus, the sound quality of this episode is amazing).  We start with "Leviathan Wakes," the first book of the Expanse series (perhaps an addiction in the making for Sam), which leads us to wonder what exactly a "space opera" is. Like all the books Sam read this week, it's very violent. But Hannah's reading "Hello, Beautiful," which is not violent, and is rather a retelling (of sorts) of "Little Women," and is a bit underwhelming (and Hannah may have made up the word "mythicizing").  Also a bit of a retelling is "The Land of Lost Things," John Connolly's follow up to what apparently was the popular "Book of Lost Things" (we hadn't heard of it), which is "like 'Land of Stories' plus 'Fairy Tale.'" Then we get into a little back and forth about "Chain Gang All-Stars" — Hannah is a huge fan, but Sam isn't quite sure (this was a big discussion amongst everyone at camp). Oh, and Hannah finally read "The Midnight Library" and has some thoughts! Those thoughts unveil a critical difference in Hannah and Sam's general worldviews. Finally, there is "An Honest Man," yet another super-violent book set on the islands of Maine. It's good, and he gave it to his dad to read, but Sam is sensitive about all of these books set in Maine nowadays. And "Same Time Next Summer," where you know exactly what's going to happen. And it's not very spicy. 

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Hannah has returned from driving Aunt Janet to Connecticut with new furniture that is perhaps exciting only for us, but it's now much less likely you'll stumble into the non-fiction table and knock a lot of books to the ground. Also, lots of books this week, including "Infested," by Angel Luis Colón, the first book from MTV Fear (which is a real thing and Sam liked it); and "The Puzzle Master," which Hannah doesn't remember ordering, but is an enjoyable combo package of traumatic brain injury and Jewish mysticism and creepy dolls. How do we sell these books to our readers? Horror is hot everywhere else. Then we move into an old-guy-having-sex book by J.M. Coetzee, "The Pole"; and then the much better "The Art Thief," by Michael Finkel, who really is a terrific storyteller, about a real-life master thief who's hard not to like ("prisons for artwork" is amazing). Oh, and Sam has now read "Warrior Girl Unearthed," too, and so should you because you need to appreciate the level of moral bankruptcy it describes, and Hannah, did, indeed read "When Women for Dragons" for Book Club, but, well, only one person showed up, so we're going to talk about it some more (it's mostly about wanting to roast Brett Kavanaugh in fire). 

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The customers are cranking through the Shop at 9 a.m. on Monday morning as Hannah is literally live from the Book Shop (yay, mute button) and we are ready to crank through some books, starting first with "TransElectric," the revelatory musician memoir from Cidny Bullens, who used to be Cindy Bullens (and we talk about that), back-up singer to Elton John (we talk about "Me," as well) and so much more. Then comes a bunch of stuff about books that come out in September, including "Amazing Grace Adams" (let's hear it for perimenopausal women!) and the new Lauren Groff (it's miserable — in a good way! And it is based in Virginia, yes). This leads into a sidebar on why it's hard to handsell "Chain-Gang All-Stars," but we come up with a way to do it. Then Hannah tells us a story about someone buying 500 copies of TJ Newman's "Falling" from an indie bookstore as a way to talk about "Drowning," which is her new book, and a way to mildy apologize for slagging "Falling" last year — "shame on me; I'm not always right." Finally, we wrap up with the "laugh-out-loud" book, "The Rachel Incident," which comes out later this month and is like "Sally Rooney, but funny," and leads to the question, "Do British people like American swearing as much as I like British swearing?" Oh, and Sam doesn't like the National Book Award-winning "Let the Great World Spin."

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Return to Clearwater Pond! Hannah and Sam are spending Memorial Day trying to read while being interrupted by their father. Luckily, Hannah had already finished "Yellowface" before arriving and so we can have a good chat about the industry's hottest novel and why it's supposed to make us uncomfortable (and succeeded: "I wouldn't do that!"). This leads to a long discussion on the worry of having someone steal your work (Sam is not worried). Maybe it all depends on perspective, which is at the core of "Apeirogon," which you really need to read, just like our Book Club did (they loved it). Oh, plus "George," by Frieda Hughes, which is about a real-life magpie; and "Open Throat," by Henry Hoke, which is about a made-up gay mountain lion. And then Sam remembers he read part of the Lauren Groff ARC, which was pretty interesting. Finally, we wrap with a bit about "Momfluenced," by Sara Petersen, who'll be joining Hannah at Labor in Vain, in Ipswich, on June 6.

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Sam is feeling good about himself, having made some customers happy with recommendations in the Shop this past weekend, and maybe even fueled some important TikToks. Unfortunately, he mistakes Vice and Vox, and thinks Vulture is going out of business, but isn't. Regardless, check out Bookshop.org. And our Events page. Oh, and Elliot Bostwick Davis was at the Met, in addition to the MFA, where Sam dropped a bunch of acid. You should come see her speak at Hastings House on May 25 in the Farms. Nevermind about the history of "Labor-in-Vain" as an Ipswich street — it's old. Also, hear about "TransElectric" from Cidny Bullens, "Warrior Girl Unearthed" from Angeline Boulley (the follow-up to "Firekeeper's Daughter," which was awesome), "Dead Man's Wake" from Paul Doiron (Maine mystery!), "We Are Too Many" from Hannah Pittard (a "kind of" memoir about her husband sleeping with her best friend), and, finally, "Updike" from Adam Begley, which Sam is about halfway through, but is scandalous, in general. Did you hear about the plaque dedication? More to come on that.

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Independent Bookstore Day is over, and we have thoughts. It was great, but it could have been better (this leads to a long conversation on why we need new art, if we do, and a discussion of Hannah's new favorite book "Chain-Gang All-Stars," which is better than "The Hunger Games," for lots of reasons). Then we talk about Hannah's coming-of-age-novel panel from the Newburyport Literary Festival (sex! Going through trials!), before moving into the books we've read: "Whalefall," by Daniel Kraus (out in August, not as good as the Mario movie); Peter Orner's "Still No Word from You" (headliner at Newburyport, where Andre Dubus wasn't sure he'd met Hannah before, but he has); Emily Henry's "Happy Place" (so comforting); "Game of Edges," by Bruce Schoenfeld (it makes Sam sad); Jo Nesbo's "Macbeth" (Scandinavian cops hold themselves to a higher standard); and "The Midnight News," by Jo Baker (another WW2 book!). Oh, and there's a bit on audiobook narrators and how they get paid. Huge number of books discussed this week.

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Hannah is in the Berkshires (or someplace) digging for ramps and concerned about her to-be-read list, but she made some time to talk books, including "Rough Sleepers" (the next Book Club book), which leads to a big discussion of why people do good works. Sam thinks it's anger. Heavy cynicism ensues. As a palate-cleanser, we then engage in a discussion of note-taking — Hannah won't write in her hardcovers — and the use of notes at Book Club and the preciousness of books. (Note: Maine and Massachusetts are NOT the only states that celebrate Patriots Day). Oh, yeah, the books we read: "Blue Skies," by TC Boyle (who's great, but stay for the mediocre TC Boyle anecdote at the end); "Symphony of Secrets," by Brendan Slocumb (don't read the jacket copy!); "Saha," by Cho Nam-Joo (Singapore is not for Sam; it's unclear whether all of his facts are in order); "You Are Here," by Karin Lin-Greenberg ("shining beacons of capitalism"). And then there's 15 minutes worth of stuff about the Newburyport Literary Festival — for which Hannah is leading a panel on the "coming of age" novel, with Allegra Goodman, Kai Harris, and Jessica Anya Blau — and how we manage our advance-reader copies. Also Roxanne Gay's new imprint and its new romance novel from Vannessa Lyon.

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Hannah is back from a three-day weekend up at Sugarloaf, thanks to the efforts of our friendly booksellers, and ready to talk books, such as "Rough Sleepers," next month's book club pick — because book club is back! Three people showed up to talk "Noor" (it's not just for employees!). But we quickly transition to a discussion of workplace novels like "Homebodies" (you're late! It's 9:02) and "Everything's Fine," which have Hannah remembering her most-recent mean boss and Sam regretting his life choices in general. To that end, Tom Hanks' workplace is the movie set, and his new book is for sure a "love letter to moviemaking," though that doesn't land for Sam, who doesn't love movies, but the comic books that are tucked into the text land pretty well. Then we finish up with a discussion of "It. Goes. So. Fast.," which has Hannah weeping in the car while Sam wonders about the infantalizing of children, and "Girlfriend on Mars," which is way more bleak than Sam was expecting given Emily St. John Mandel's awesome blurb. Maybe we're transcending '90s cynicism finally? Though "Heart-Shaped Box" is a Nirvana song, and the Paul Westerberg song that Hannah heard is actually "Dyslexic Heart," and Sam, per usual, has misremembered.

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Still a bit high on her PBS debut, Hannah gives us some backstory on her "Stories from the Stage" experience before we dive into what we're reading. From there it's "wearing books like clothes," Elmore Leonard, an extended bit on Rebecca Makkai (it's "Jackal" Sam is thinking of, which also isn't about a podcaster), and a brief aside about our general dislike of epistolary novels, before we launch into how great Kelly Link is. Seriously, her new book of short stories is GREAT (is she the most famous short story-only writer going today?). What's not great? Slack. But there's a whole book written in Slack messages. Which triggers a pretty long digression. Sorry about that. But stick around for the finish, cuz we've got some thoughts on "Beyond That, the Sea."

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Hannah is in Paris and the bookstore owners are just going right ahead and asking her to take over their shops. Not happening! But she did buy three books from the Red Wheelbarrow, with a train theme of sorts that she didn't plan, a couple of which aren't available yet here in the States. We then chat briefly about "Saxophone Colossus" (don't miss the special episode Sam recorded, EP35), and a book Hannah probably won't finish even though she sorta likes it (yes, Elizabeth Hardwick and Robert Lowell were married in Beverly Farms), but then we move into a long discusion of the neurological underpinnings of why we like the music and books that we like. Oh, plus "Zig Zag," a good book about doing drugs, and "Demon Copperhead," which is making Hannah sad even though it might win the Pulitzer. 

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In this special episode, Hannah is away in France, so of course Sam decides to interview Aidan Levy, author of the brand-new "Saxophone Colossus," a definitive biography of the great jazz musician Sonny Rollins. In addition, we're joined by Carl Smith, a fellow Mainer and the authoritative archivist of Rollins' live recordings. Even if you're not a huge jazz fan, take a listen to hear about putting together a 750-page biography over the course of seven years and about the passion Rollins inspired. Also, don't miss Aidan and Carl at Print, in Portland, ME, March 10, 2023, at 7 p.m.

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This episode, we come out firing, dicussing the editing of Roald Dahl texts, which we are very much troubled by. So, you die and then they change your texts? That seems dangerous and a search for fool's gold. Children are not some delicate class that needs to be protected from all potential language harms. This leads seamlessly into a discussion of Tom Crewe's "The New Life," an important new piece of fiction exploring gay life in the late 1800s, and the language choices Crewe makes, which leads to "After Sappho," which Hannah was ensorceled by, and explores the lives of lesbian women. But there's more! Campus novels! Hannah read "My Last Innocent Year" and enjoyed its lack of easy answers; Sam read "Hell Bent" and thinks it's maybe not Leigh Bardugo's best; Hannah read "A Likely Story" and you know she's a sucker for books about writers (but it's a bad-dad story, which sorta sucks). Also: The return of Book Shop Book Club! You should come!

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It was the morning after the Grammys, so we were thinking about literary awards, including the National Book Critics Circle Awards, which have nominated friend-of-the-pod Morgan Talty's debut book of short stories for their John Leonard Prize. Have we read any of the other nominees? A few, but we have thoughts, in general. How is it we've never even heard of at least one of these (Lewis Mumford was an American historian who died in 1990, apparently)? Is "The Rabbit Hutch" actually amazing? Hannah's not sure. Then we move onto "The Magic Kingdom," and why it makes Sam like Florida more (Shakers!); "Trust," and its cool organization structure and why Hannah didn't get any stock for graduation; and "Weyward," and whether Hannah is just reading it because she loves that show "Wednesday." Finally, we wrap by discussing what the future is for the Book Shop Book Club.  

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It's a jam-packed episode this week, as Hannah is knee-deep in sticky (sorry, POST-IT) notes full of the books we and you love with all your hearts. It's a bit of Valentine's Day fun that has taken on a life of its own in the Book Shop windows, thanks to Twitter (a friendly wasteland), and offers up some great suggestions for books to check out that you might love, too. Can you believe Hannah has never read "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn"? That done, we get into a long discussion of works in translation and whether translators get enough credit, Murakami's brand of humility that makes Hannah feel bad (also, Kotaro Watanabe is sorta famous, with lots of voiceover credits, but Sam probably hadn't actually heard of him), and a book about going on a writers' retreat only to get murdered (side note: Jericho is on Route 15 not Route 25 and Amtrak does appear to come near to Burlington, anyway). But there's more! Hannah's reading the feminist dystopia "Ice," though she doesn't know why; Sam's starting the late Russell Banks' last novel ("Affliction" is probably the movie Hannah's remembering); and we're celebrating the three-year anniversary of signing the papers on the Shop!

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It might be the hottest book going right now: "SAM," by Allegra Goodman, set in Beverly, and telling the coming-of-age story of a young girl from age 6 to 19. We've both read it now and so spend a lot of time talking about why it's so good. But we've had a lot of time to read lately! So, we also run through a bunch more titles, something like 24 in all, including thoughts about Bret Easton Ellis, why we're struggling to read hard books right now, coffee table books that are actually good, why Reddit hates Murakami, and much more!

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It doesn't get any more straightforward than this. We each share five of our favorite books from the past 12 months (maybe Hannah cheated and snuck in six?), and then we spin through the top-20 bestsellers of the past year in the Shop. It's wild. It's crazy. It's the last podcast of the year! Find them all right on our bookstore homepage if you're not finding them on our podcast landing page. Oh, and here's where to find the HarperCollins Union Solidarity Fund. You should donate to it.

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Why and how do books make it to the top of the "New York Times" best books of the year list? We have no idea, but we go through the top 10 and give our thoughts as to why these books are so big and what we think about them. We love Jennifer Egan! The rest of these? Well. You'll see. For some of them, we're not sure about the hullabaloo. We also get into why and how we bring books like these into the Shop and how we make our buying decisions. Should we have ordered more of these books? We'll find out. Then we dive into what we're reading — identifying a whole genre we've named "desperately seeking mommy" books — with a rom-com ("The Ex Talk") and some further shots at Stephen King that are probably gratuitous. Note, however, that Chris Colfer did NOT write the Artemis Fowl books — that's Eoin Colfer, who is a different person. Finally, we wrap up with some books about miserable situations you may or may not be into. 

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We're decorated, stocked up, and ready to enter the holiday season — with "Shoebert the Traveling Seal." Hear all about Industry Books, our micropublishing house, and our latest project, a children's book that details the travels of the real-life Shoebert, a seal who arrived in a Beverly pond in an industrial park and promptly became a social media star and beloved mascot. It's fun. But we've also been reading, and you can hear our thoughts on RF Kuang's "Babel" (one of the more important books of the last decade? What is the moral culpability of the person who inveted the "like" button? Are we crossing the HarperCollins picket line by talking about this book? How is Kuang only 26?), "Lavender House" (an LGBTQ mystery), the new Stephen King (the King Paradox!), the "Graceling" graphic novel, and the latest by a Waring School graduate(!), which drives a discussion of what "women's literature" might be. 

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This week, we're legitimately live from the Book Shop, where we've already got the Christmas crackers out — even Thanksgiving crackers! — and things are heating up. But don't worry: This is just a regular discussion of the books we're reading, including the new Veronica Roth (chased off Twitter, but Hannah remains a fan), the discussion of which reminds Sam of "Andor" and "Station Eleven" and leads to a social media diatribe; a Greek mythology rehash Sam doesn't like much; more on why "The Golden Enclaves" is awesome; the genius behind the brand-new "Babel"; the new Claire Keegan, which is not a Christmas book but is awesome like "Small Things Like These" and makes a wonderful hostess gift; and a fun new murder mystery featuring real-life medical workers who've done evil things. 

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As teased in Episode 26, Hannah recounts her experience with "Stories from the Stage," a television show on WGBH, the public broadcasting show where people tell live stories on a theme, hosted by Wes Hazard. For Hannah, the theme was "turning the page," which is obviously relevant to her experience leaving corporate publishing and endeavoring to run a real-live bookstore — in the middle of a global pandemic. How could it have possibly taken seven hours for this to take place? In this special episdoe of "John Updike's Ghost," you find out! We don't seem to talk about books, but this is all sort of book adjacent, and Hannah winds up hugging everyone — except for her buddy who went to the Moth instead. (BTW, if you want to pitch your story to "Stories from the Stage," click here.)

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Oh ho! For our 26th episode we bring on a very special guest: Our cousin Rick Pfeifle! Apparently, he goes by Eric in his professional lawyer life, but we have always known him as Rick. Or Ricky. Whatever you call him, he's from Dallas and he's got an active-reading household. How has he raised voracious readers (8 and 10 years old)? What do he and Kate do to keep them reading and not playing video games? There's been some friction! "They don't like that sometimes!" How does he manage the guilt he feels when he watches sports instead of reading Dick Ebersol's memoir or the Baseball 100 because he's been reading all day as a lawyer? We talk about strategies for keeping kids reading even as they become teenagers and beyond. But also Sam read some Updike and an upcoming book about mermaids and has some thoughts on Updike as a "horndog." 

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It's a recording from Indigenous People's Day, so everyone's a little groggy, including Liberty Hardy (@FranzenComesAlive), senior contributing writer for Book Riot and host of the "All the Books!" podcast — which has, like, 600 episodes, which is a lot more than us — and a person who reads 700+ books a year! She's never done a podcast like THIS, though, where we're the ones asking the questions. How does she find time to read so much? Does she read on her laptop? Has she read the books we're reading right now? Does she watch TV? Does she agree that the Internet is evil and makes us sad? Plus: Her recommendations for spooky books that are great for the Halloween season. This one's a banger. We talk about a LOT of books. Sam may have bristled at some point, though. (Also, it's "Archenemies," not "Archrivals," that Marissa Meyer wrote.)

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Hannah and Sam are both back from conferences — Hannah hit the New England Independent Booksellers Association Fall Conference (NEIBA!), Sam was talking cannabis. Hear what the booksellers are buzzing about (succession planning! Kelly Link!), how we really nailed the Morgan Talty book (Episode 18!), and how Maine and Massachusetts are really different cultures but seem to work together a lot. Oh, and Hannah saw Tracy Kidder at NEIBA, too. Plus, Sam's reading more Afrofuturism (Rivers Solomon!), and Hannah is reading old '60s-era fiction ("The Bloater"! Rosemary Tonks died in 2014) where people get angry about soup. Then we move into "Blurb Your Enthusiasm," a book about writing book jacket copy, which we mostly don't trust anymore, but which we spend a lot of time talking about. Finally, a murder mystery in a cannabis shop. Which is cozy. 

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After a not very productive discussion of whether September is the best month, Hannah can't quite bring herself to name the ARC she has read and decided she doesn't like (she "hate read" at points). Can you guess what it is? There are plenty of clues. It's a Christmas book (with no ugly sweaters). Maybe they should have killed the kid. It's unclear. Hannah didn't feel the characters, regardless. Then we get into "Fire & Blood," the source material for big HBO hit "House of Dragons," and why it's maybe bad for the world that something so brutal is popular. This leads into a very coincidental discussion about super-young girls ending up in high-stakes medieval-style environments, since Hannah is reading "Court of Thorns & Roses" and Maggie O'Farrell's "Marriage Portrait." Who knew they would be so much alike? Also: Update on the "Time Traveler's Wife" show, which Sam is bothered by for reasons, and a small discourse on (Wilco) Jeff Tweedy's book from a couple years back that turns into a long discourse on songwriting for some reason. Finally: Books we've sold 100 copies of and why we need to send the Obamas a note of thanks.  

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Hannah has found some Hope Punk: "A Psalm for the Wild Built"! It is not actually dystopian fiction, but we don't let that stop us from talking about dystopian fiction as well (which doesn't just mean set in the future!). Why is dystopian fiction attractive? Are we writing it for the same reason? How is it a response to utopian fiction (the HG Wells book Sam was thinking of is "Men Like Gods")? This leads in to a talk about "Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo" and how reading habits might be changing with the different ways people are consuming and purchasing art in general (Sam's impersonation of a Gen Zer is perhaps not very accurate). Hurrah for Taylor Jenkins Reid, Emily Henry, and Colleen Hoover! This moves, somehow, into Japanese fiction ("Bullet Train" and "Twilight World") and "Wool," which Hannah is correct that other people don't consider YA either. Then Sam decides that you tend to like David Mitchell more if you've done hallucinogens, Hannah argues you can't be a good writer without being an avid reader and talks about re-readering "Picture of Dorian Gray" (not "Portrait," as Sam incorrectly corrects Hannah, like a jerk), we pitch Mosin Hamid's "The Last White Man" as the next Book Club pick, and we wrap things up with some party ideas.

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Hannah's tuckered out! The Tax Holiday Weekend Extravaganza was a big success, raising $650 for the Eastern MA Abortion Fund and selling all kinds of used books out of the Garage (which we're now capitalizing), but also rather exhausting. Plus, Sam had to part with some books from the personal collection he was a little sad to see go, but that led to a discussion of which books Sam actually reads more than once (Hannah basically never re-reads), inspired by the new Duran Duran book. This leads to a discussion of "perfectly fine" books and why we don't really need to finish those books and how exciting it is to start a book and know you're going to want to finish it (like "Chain Gang All-Stars," which comes out ... in April). Hannah also felt the need to talk about Penguin Random House/Simon and Schuster case, which Sam only barely understands, mostly because she's delighting in all of the nonsense that's being spouted, and it has made her want to buy more books from Norton (new Lydia Millett!), which is employee-owned. Then we finish up with a Molly Tanzer update (there are BOTH gloves and a cat on the cover, BTW) where Hannah admits she probably shanked the marketing on the third book.

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Hey hey! It's our 20th episode and we're celebrating by just doing the stuff we normally do: Talk about the books we're currently reading and wherever that takes us. And, yeah, we're at camp again, so it's a bit of old and a bit of new, with more reflections on the meanness of the 1990s (Sarah Vowell is apparently a voice actor now, in addition to being a writer), the brand-new "Calling for a Blanket Dance" (there's hope!), and Emily St. John Mandel (who can write like hell) and just how much authors hate doing book tour events. This leads us into how not to talk to your local bookstore as an aspiring author (it is, actually, about the money) and then the books we're currently working on, by Molly Tanzer (finger insertions), Gabrielle Zevin (gaming!), and Hiron Ennes (whose "Leach" debuts in September), with a final discussion on indie publishers and how and why we bring books into the Shop.

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This week, Hannah is back from Europe and ready to talk about a month's worth of bookstore visiting and reading — including books like "Delphi," about working from home and being a mom in academia (not "The Latinist," the book Sam couldn't remember), and "Class Trip," a book that isn't as much about skiing as you'd think from the cover, but does inspire an aside on the trend in ski books. Travelogue and discussions of how European bookstores (Fernando Passoa! "Fortune Men"! "Consent"!) seem to work out of the way, with a sidebar on the publing industry, Sam then engages in a rant about a trend he's seeing in YA where the female protagonists seem particularly wimpy, including in a book his daughter gave up on after three pages. Then things wind up with discussion of books that need 100 pages to get going, "Horse," and a revisit of "This Time Tomorrow" and time travel and zombie books and why we love both of them as a society. Also: If you know of a hope-core, green-punk book we should read, speak up. 

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This week, we're joined by Morgan Talty, whose debut short story collection, "Night of the Living Rez," is maybe the hottest thing going right now, with glowing reviews in the Times, NPR, Electric Literature, The Portland Press Herald, and so many more. We talk to him about writing short stories vs. a novel, how his Penobscot heritage works its way into his collection, what the difference is between writing about Mainers and Penobscots (he's not going to make them dance for a white audience) and where they come together, how the book almost got called "The Little Yellow House," and which stories, books, and authors inspired him while he was doing his writing, including "Out of the Woods," "Knockemstiff," "Jesus' Son," Raymond Carver, Anton Chekov, Tommy Orange, and many more. Also, we find out how he actually makes a living.

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Whoa! Hannah and Sam are at Camp, prepping for next episode's visit with Morgan Talty, author of "Night of the Living Rez." In the meantime, they discuss what's going on with short-story collections (do people read them?), Sam's new strategy for books at Camp (he's not bringing any; he's got plenty to choose from), whether people are too transactional with books and plots, how Robert Heinlein nailed 2022 America, and why the Internet is bad for new good books, but is probably responsible for the '90s revival. Is the spectrum of books smaller now, even though there are more books than ever released every year? Also, the book Sam found in the Brussels book shop was Margaret Atwood's "Penelopiad." Which is not a retelling of the Persephone story, but rather the Odyssey.

With talk about:

  • "Creatures of Will and Temper," by Molly Tanzer
  • "On the Road," by Jack Kerouac
  • "Wonder Boys," by Michael Chabon
  • "The Woman in the Library," by Sulari Gentill
  • "Starship Troopers," by Robert Heinlein
  • "Townie," by Andre Dubus III
  • "Now Is Not the Time To Panic," by Kevin Wilson
  • "American Psycho," by Bret Easton Ellis
  • "Penelopiand," by Margaret Atwood
  • "The Fellowship of the Ring," by JRR Tolkien

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This week, special guest and Hannah's former boss Patty Berg (now at Penguin Random House, she does not really go on 4CHAN, we're pretty sure) joins us to reminisce about the origins of the smash-hit "The Time Traveler's Wife," by Audrey Niffenegger, now a brand-new HBO Max show Sam can't bring himself to watch. Along the way, we seque into the horrors of virtual tradeshows, secret insider stuff about how the publishing biz works (some companies don't do paperbacks?!?), Reddit, and the various books we're reading, including "Winterkeep," by Boston's Kristin Cashore, who writes the best sexy YA novels we've ever read, "The Prince of Tides," which we'd totally forgotten about, and "The Palace Papers" (though you should fast forward through the Andrew chapter). Plus a bunch of other stuff. 

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This week it's back to just talking about the books we're reading, including "Bloomsbury Girls" and its written and unwritten rules about bookselling (at the Book Shop, the rules are only unwritten).  Oh, and we've got an Updike reading! The Ipswich book club did NOT like "Couples" (mid-career, 1996 release it turns out). Kind of a bummer for John who "treats women terribly. They are just bodies," says Hannah. Then we move in to discussions of "They Called Me Number One" (must read, even if it's hard on the soul), "Vacationland" (beach read; we talk about the rules for this, too, which leads to "Grown Ups"), and "Uncommon Measure" (read if you're a musician, for sure, or if you want your kid to be a musician, or if you want to think about why people can't get out of their heads). We finish up with a discussion of the use of the second person universal. Are there books that use it well? 

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In a special two-guest episode, Hannah and Sam talk with Shonna and Tanya about the fantastic new "Breaking Bread" publication, a collection of essays by New England writers that benefits Blue Angel, an organization that provides fresh-farm food to hungry families across Maine and beyond. Unsuprisingly, there is a lot of talk about food writing - Shonna was once told she was "straight out of Rumford with the tastebuds of a sloth" - how much Sam hates food, and which essays just knock it out of the park. We especially love those that talk about the people behind the food, including works by Ron Currie, Lily King, Richard Ford, Jonathan Lethem, Phuc Tran, and Bill Roorbach. Also, Tanya explains what grapefruit ice is and Sam coins the term "angry knish" and Tanya and Shonna provide a couple book recommendations. Then things wrap up with a discussion of drugs in restaurants and Marlon James' "Black Leopard, Red Wolf," for no really good reason.

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High on the success of our first-ever off-site, in-person event, Hannah and Sam talk about the really excellent "Paradise Falls" and how good Keith O'Brien was at hyping his book up at Channel Marker Brewing, then quickly move into Hannah's panel discussion at the Newbury Literary Festival on grief ("The Guncle!"). Then follows a stirring look at great basketball books for the NBA playoffs, Hannah's like of the "Lessons in Chemistry" audiobook (author Bonnie Garmus is, in fact, the narrator), why Sam can't handle hyperbolic blurbs on books ("The City in the Middle of the Night"), and whether the Book Club is going to embrace Marlon James. Plus some other stuff, like how to get free advance-reader copies from us (which we would never sell!). 

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This week, we're joined by local Christopher Clarey, who will be talking about his book about tennis great Roger Federer, "The Master," at the upcoming Newburyport Literary Festival. Hear about how he decided to write the book, what it's like covering sports in the age of social media, what Roger Federer is really like ("the most interesting thing about him is that he's interested"), and what he thinks about "King Richard," having such an up-close view of the Williams sisters and their father. Along the way, we talk about other great sports books ("Barbarian Days"!) and how you organize a book that could have been 1,000 pages long.

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Fresh off a Thoreau-down with the Frugal Chariot, spring is in the air for Hannah and Sam, even as they struggle with how to think about authorial intent. Thanks to a prison book group obsessed with the genius of Octavia Butler, Sam is second-guessing his dedication to the text. Has he been missing out? With Twitter and video interviews giving us more and more perspective from the author, how do we change our reading experiences? What happens when authors, like JK Rowling, tell you things about their characters that you can't glean from their writing? Really, though, it's about struggling with how we talk critically about texts. Also: Hear about "Beneficence" (turns out there is, indeed, a town in Maine called Grafton Notch), which somehow takes a detour into Dennis Lehane's "Gone Baby Gone." Can't we just have books where no one dies? And why is May 17 the day that every book is coming out? Such as "The Colony," the discussion of which reminds Sam of "Robinson Crusoe" (though it's unclear if the summary he provides is accurate), which somehow leads to a discussion of Robin Hood and why there isn't ample fanfic of the Robin Hood universe. And don't forget about the Newburyport Literary Festival! Or Record Store Day! (Sponsored by: The Taproom Reading Series!)

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Does anyone know which publisher publishes which book? Sam is doubtful, but Hannah provides a good bit of insight from her days in publishing about why the houses — especially the indies — matter. For instance, how else would we get "The Red Zone," a great book about menstruation, without Soft Skull Press? Also: Sam reads "The Tender Bar" and does not believe it, Hannah listens to "Run Rose Run" and falls in love all over again with Dolly Parton, and there is a long discussion on whether 1996 is actually the best year of all time, spurred on by Emma Straub's brand-new "This Time Tomorrow." Plus, a whole lot more!

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Sarai Walker ("Dietland") joins us as our second-ever guest to talk about her upcoming release, "The Cherry Robbers," which comes out May 17, and plays on goth themes inspired by the story of Sarah Winchester and Emily Dickinson's creepy poems. Plus, hear thoughts about "The Unwritten Book," by Samantha Hunt, to be released in April, Dan Chaon's "Sleepwalk," which comes out in May, "Murder on Hollywood Beach," released later this month, and a bunch of stuff about the Maine Bookhouse, where Sam found a book from 1939 about Lucky Strike cigarettes, the Newburyport Literary Festival, and much more. Also, Sam accuses Sarai of having a southern accent, but she grew up in California and claims she doesn't have one. You be the judge.

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Hannah gives us the behind-the-scene details of getting a literary agent (aka "book pimp"), after 14 years of working on it, and chats up her "Nora and Wes Save the Summer" (not to be confused with "Nick and Norah's Infinite Playlist"), looking to normalize social and emotional learning for younger kids. Plus, Sam's reading of "Hench" leads to an extended discussion on behind-the-scenes superhero novels, which leads eventually into why Hannah doesn't like graphic novels, why no one seems to care that Jimmy Page was regularly bedding underage girls in Los Angeles, space books where "going to look for a new planet to live on" is a thing, the difference in approach between "Diary of a Young Girl" and "MAUS," Hannah's difficulty finishing books, and then stories where it's unclear whether either Sam or Hannah saved someone's life. Eventually we remember to tell you that Peter Ho Davies will be a guest at our March 1 Book Club meeting.

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Following up on the big Nor'easter, Sam and Hannah chat about "Powder Days," a new look at the future of ski culture, then talk about Hannah's exploits with newly minted Hall of Famer Big Papi, who's cool, but not as cool as Pedro. After that, we hit Jennifer Egan (her first book is actually called "A Visit from the Goon Squad" not "Welcome to the Goon Squad"), "The Last White Man" and comma usage, how Hanya Yanagihara has pushed the boundaries of just how miserable you can make your fictional characters, and much, much more. Also, we looked it up and Mozart lived in the 1700s, which we totally knew. Oh, and Heather Hansman edited "Powder" and "Skiing," but not "Ski." Oh well. Something like 21 books discussed, in all. Whew!

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Recording during a snowy MLK Day, Hannah and Sam are in a loquacious mood, covering a lot of ground with many asides. However, we open with the 2021 Shop bestsellers, talking about how Hannah's tastes influence what gets sold, how we see local authors with great success in the Shop, and how Sam's tastes don't necessarily align. Then we move into Led Zeppelin and Duran Duran (shoutout to Ryan Abernathy), Joan Didion (RIP) and memoirs in general, the practice of guilt reading, the YA title "Elatsoe" (actually pronounced "ell-at-so-ay," we have since discovered), Sam's joy at discovering a Jane Austen mystery series, and some discourse on audiobooks vs. audio dramas and the evil of space tourism.

Also, the famous cat Rabbit makes a brief appearance. And it's unclear why Sam's voice is so low. He did not spend the whole night previous smoking butts.

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It's inventory day in the Shop, but that doesn't stop Hannah and Sam from talking about the new books they've crushed since the big holiday. We're talking Colson Whitehead, Lauren Groff, Joe Posnanski, Meg Mason, and Emma Brown's "To Raise a Boy," which leads to a little detour into the University of Vermont's gender studies program. Don't worry, it'll all make sense.

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After a general discussion of John Updike's ability to crank out aphorisms, Hannah and Sam quickly get into their favorite books of 2021. Well, not all that quickly. They first talk about Mark Prins, the Iowa Writers Workshop, and "The Latinist." Obviously, we didn't read all the books last year, so this is just us talking about books we liked a lot. Hannah finished 70 books, Sam thinks he finished about 50, both sampled about 100 total. That's a good go of things, we think. Hannah gets animated about "The Martian." You'll like it. Sam admits to thinking of Richard Powers as "Dick Powers" and being unable to take him seriously.

All told, we talk in some detail about 25 different books.

Also: We couldn't remember that it was Jacqueline Bissett that Andrew McCarthy lived with as a young actor. But it was. Not Brooke Shields. And you should stick around for the finishing discussion on why we love Twitter.

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This episode, we welcome our first-ever guest on the "John Updike's Ghost" podcast: Alena Dillon! The author of "The Happiest Girl in the World" and "Mercy House," and resident of Beverly, MA, has a brand-new memoir, "My Body Is a Big Fat Temple," about her experience of pregnancy and birth, which we manage to compare to hiking Mt. Everest and a car crash. She talks about why she wrote the book, what the barriers were to getting it published, and then joins Hannah and Sam in talking about weird stories, why it's hard to find small-press books but we need to read them, Lauren Groff, rom-coms with lots of swears in them, the epic Canadian band Rush, and why Facebook is evil. Oh, and then there's a quick hit at the end with some great kids' books recommendations.

Listen to the podcast and then join us for Book Club with Alena on January 11, 2022.

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In this episdoe, just back from the New England Crime Bake, Hannah and Sam discuss the mysteries they're reading (not "sexy mysteries"), Sam's dip into "The Lincoln Highway," the new Louise Erdrich (Hannah's first!), romance novels set in the Indian Diaspora (with a segue into "Never Have I Ever"), the new Ann Patchett, and then a bunch of stuff about why there aren't any big Thanksgiving books or really any cultural artifacts. 

Oh, and Ursula Le Guin's book is called "No Time to Spare" and Louise Erdich's is called "Future Home of the Living God" (which Sam was not even close to getting right in real time). 

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Sam and Hannah kick things of with an extensive discussion of why John Updike is the patron saint of the Book Shop of Beverly Farms, then move into thoughts about intimidating big books, Christmas books, authors you discover way after they were popular, and just which kind of weird is appreciated. 

Note: Hannah and Sam for sure know the book is called "Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell," but Hannah was apparently having a stroke and Sam was stoned. 

Also: Sam doesn't really hate "A Peculiar Peril" as much as it sounds. He DID read the whole thing, after all.