Marc Jolicoeur (aka "Jolly Thoughts"): Recent Episodes
A repository for reflections on life, God, the Bible, etc.
This feed is a grab bag of thoughts, reflections, and tomfoolery. The Bible will be talked about, other books will be talked about, concepts will be wrestled with, Jesus will be made much of.
marcjolicoeur.substack.com
“Determining what is correct is a science. Truth is reality.” (pg 32 of Statistics & Faith, by Jason Wilson)
Jason Wilson went to university for the math, stayed in university for the Bible, and somehow God seems to have ended up tying these passions together in ways that we can reap the benefits of in his book, Statistics & Faith. In this conversation, Jason patiently allows me to ramble through my half-formed thoughts on the inundation of stats in our world, and he helps me not only understand the nature of stats better, he also helps me see how they can help Christians better understand their world. We talk about measuring the likelihood that a prayer is answered, the dangers of eugenics, why David’s census was such a big deal… it’s a wild ride, so (unless you’re faint of heart), hop in! (if you’d prefer to watch rather than listen, look below or on YouTube)
chapters:
00:00 - Introduction and Personal Background
01:21 - Academic Journey and Dual Degrees
04:25 - Statistics and Faith: The Intersection of Disciplines
07:31 - The Evolution of Statistics
10:39 - Understanding Statistics: Definitions and Applications
13:15 - The Dark History of Eugenics and Statistics
16:29 - The Role of Statistics in Society
19:24 - Engaging with Statistics: Critical Thinking and Application
29:39 - The Role of Statistics in Technology
32:25 - The Impact of Values on Decision Making
35:13 - Statistics Through a Christian Lens
39:45 - Understanding Misuse of Statistics
44:46 - The Intersection of Faith and Statistics
50:04 - Intercessory Prayer and Statistical Analysis
53:58 - The Limitations of Data in Human Experience
keywords:
statistics, faith, data literacy, biblical worldview, truth, eugenics, scientific revolution, data analysis, Christian ethics, information literacy
links:
Jason Wilson - https://www.biola.edu/directory/people/jason-wilson
Statistics & Faith - https://www.ivpress.com/statistics-and-faith
Math Is Music (article) - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/280114347_Math_is_Music_Statistics_is_Literature
Get full access to Marc Jolicoeur (aka Jolly Thoughts) at marcjolicoeur.substack.com/subscribe
“Your true home is a place you have not yet been but have sensed all along…” - Brian Zahnd, from Unseen Existences
Brian Zahnd is no stranger to controversy, but it’s possible at this time that one of the most controversial things he could say is that there is a reality that neither science nor our senses can reliably define; existences that are unseen. This is the very topic of his latest book, and we that book as a launching pad to talk about the impact of Greek and/or Platonic thought on the New Testament, the microtonal rock of Angine de Poitrine, the potential exhaustion of revivalism, and much much more. While listening to the pod, check out Unseen Existences, Brian’s Substack (especially his four-part companion to Unseen Existences, The Reverend), and while you’re at it, bookmark The Silent’s relevant album, Unseen.
To watch instead of just listen, either check it out on YouTube or click below. 👇
Chapters:
00:01 - Introduction and Setting the Scene
06:15 - Brian Zahnd’s Journey and Writing Career
09:12 - The Influence of Music and Pop Culture
14:11 - The Nature of Writing and Content Creation
19:15 - Exploring Heaven and Spirituality
24:23 - Philosophical Materialism and Its Implications
29:14 - Christianity and Platonic Thought
33:12 - Deconstruction vs. Transformation in Faith
37:16 - A Journey Beyond American Christianity
40:27 - Critique of Charismatic Christianity
43:21 - Navigating Political Landscapes in Faith
50:07 - The Exhaustion of Revivalism
57:04 - Living Ordinary Lives in Faith
01:05:03 - Understanding Our True Home
Brian Zahnd - https://brianzahnd.com/
“Unseen Existences” - https://www.amazon.ca/Unseen-Existences-Heaven-Divine-Mystery/dp/1514005646/
Brian’s Substack - https://substack.com/@brianzahnd
“The Reverend” (short story) - https://substack.com/home/post/p-196905954
“Unseen” (by The Silent) -
keywords:
Spirituality, Unseen Realm, Christian Orthodoxy, Culture, Faith, Theology, Book Review, Christian Life
key topics:
The unseen realm and its significance in faith
The influence of culture and pop culture on spirituality
The relationship between materialism and spiritual longing
The role of Christian orthodoxy in contemporary faith
The impact of revivalism and charismatic movements
Get full access to Marc Jolicoeur (aka Jolly Thoughts) at marcjolicoeur.substack.com/subscribe
“Just for a moment
Can we fix our eyes on Jesus?
There is no other reason
We stand and sing these songs”
from Magnify (Just For A Moment) by Paul Baloche
I have not seen the adjective “pastor” attached to Paul Baloche very often, but I can tell you that there are few people I’ve met in the wider world of worship leading who are more pastoral than he. I was blessed to have him on the pod way back in 2022 (episode here), where we talked about…
-crazy online worship leading experiences during Covid
-extremes on the left AND the right within the church
-how we may have gone “far enough” with multitracks
This time around, we talked about..
-his excellent (and about to be revamped book) God Songs (which we’ve been using in class @ Kingswood)
-his journey as a songwriter that led him to write songs for the likes of the late great Ron Kenoly
-the theology of the guitar solo, and how AI may (or may not) be able to worship God
I hope you’ll enjoy the conversation, and if so, I hope you’ll share the love!
(If you prefer to watch than listen 👇)
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
05:40 - Transition to Faith and Music
06:10 - The Journey to California and Music School
09:27 - Learning from Mentors and Songwriting Beginnings
15:42 - Writing for the Local Church
21:17 - Transitioning to Professional Songwriting
26:42 - Understanding the Congregation’s Needs
31:31 - Updating ‘God Songs’ for a New Generation
34:42 - The Process of Creating a New Album
38:26 - Exploring Belief and Doubt in Worship
40:11 - The Philosophy of Guitar Solos
47:12 - AI and Songwriting: A New Frontier
59:33 - The Importance of Authentic Worship
Resources:
God Songs by Paul Baloche and Jimmy & Carol Owen - https://www.amazon.com/God-Songs-Contemporary-Worship-Book/dp/083412278X
Integrity Music - https://www.integritymusic.com
Christ for the Nations Institute - https://www.cfn.edu
Marty Nystrom - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Nystrom
Guest Links:
Website - https://paulbaloche.com
Twitter - https://twitter.com/paulbaloche
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/paulbaloche/
Keywords:
worship music, songwriting, Paul Baloche, AI in worship, worship leading, song creation, church music, worship songs, music ministry, worship innovation
Get full access to Marc Jolicoeur (aka Jolly Thoughts) at marcjolicoeur.substack.com/subscribe
How did we get from the gospels recording Jesus’ words as “Take, eat, this is my body broken for you” to Youth Pastors offering donuts & Coca Cola as “communion”? How did the primary locus of mystical Christian worship become “just a symbol”? How did the evangelical church get here, and (in the adapted register of The Clash)... should we stay or should we go?
[to watch this video, either scroll down or visit the pod on YouTube]
In his recently defended PhD thesis, my friend & Kingswood co-labourer (and newly minted doctor) Axel Kazadi traced a bit of a history of the eucharist, specifically bringing in a triumvirate of early protestant conversation partners, and then putting those considerations in conversation with John Wesley… and eventually with Wesley’s denominational children, which includes the host of this podcast.
Have I done a geekier, more “theological-dictionary-required” episode than this? I’m honestly not sure… so BUCKLE UP AND ENJOY THE RIDE!
Chapters:
00:00 - Welcome and introduction to the episode’s focus on Eucharistic theology
02:15 - The role of historical debates: transubstantiation, memorialism, and sacramental union
06:45 - The significance of Christ’s presence—material, spiritual, or symbolic
10:22 - Examining the Eucharist as a sacrifice, thanksgiving, and act of almsgiving
15:42 - Influence of the Reformation on Eucharistic doctrine
20:12 - Wesleyan perspectives: how Wesley approached communion and real presence
24:39 - Practical implications: integrating Eucharist into worship and community life
30:45 - Handling mystery and faith: accepting doctrines beyond full human understanding
36:28 - The importance of frequent communion in Wesleyan practice
44:39 - Structuring worship to emphasize the Eucharist’s grace and communal aspect
51:02 - The role of ordination and church authority in administering communion
58:11 - The continuity of Eucharistic tradition from early church to today
63:36 - Encouragement for worship leaders to deepen Eucharistic practice
73:07 - Connecting Eucharist with acts of love and social justice
77:21 - Practical steps for incorporating Eucharist intentionally in services
81:22 - Final thoughts: Eucharist as a celebration of thanksgiving and a corporate act of sacrifice
83:50 - Reflecting on the mystery of Christ’s presence and theological humility
Recommended Resources:
The Life of the World by Alexander Schmemann
Sacramental Theology: Wesleyan Perspectives
Book of Common Prayer
Key Words:
Historical development of Eucharistic theology, including transubstantiation, consubstantiation, memorialism, and sacramental union || The significance of Christ’s real, spiritual, or symbolic presence in the Eucharist || The relationship between Eucharistic sacrifice, thanksgiving, and the church’s outward acts of love (almsgiving) || Practical ways to re-emphasize the Eucharist’s role as a means of grace and a corporate act of worship || Theological reflections on the nature of Christ’s presence and the importance of mystery and faith in Eucharistic understanding || The influence of the Reformation on the diversity of Eucharistic beliefs and Wesleyan practice
Get full access to Marc Jolicoeur (aka Jolly Thoughts) at marcjolicoeur.substack.com/subscribe
“From the beginning, the Israelites were a multi-ethnic family whose most prominent members often married foreigners. Later laws against intermarriage are focused exclusively on protecting Israelite worship rather than trying to maintain the purity of the Israelite bloodline.” (pg 30)
Just one of the many wonderfully provocative snippets that litter Dr Carmen Joy Imes’ third book, Becoming God’s Family: Why the Church Still Matters. But Carmen is not a provocateur. This book (like the others in the trilogy) is aimed squarely at helping us think Biblically about the topic at hand, which in this case is the nature of the “people (or ‘family’) of God”.
Carmen’s last time on the pod (which, wildly enough, was back in May/June 2022, on the day she clicked “send” on the manuscript for her 2nd book, Being God’s Image: Why Creation Still Matters). At that time we talked about her visit to Southeastern, Critical Race Theory, the distinction between gender & sexuality… all the fun stuff. Throughout this new conversation, Dr Imes unpacks the scriptures with acumen & ease, shedding light in dark areas and clarifying my own misunderstandings of the nature of The Church. Hopefully you’ll appreciate it as much as I have!
If you’d prefer to watch rather than just listen…
keywords:
Church, Biblical Theology, Old Testament, New Testament, God’s Covenant, Community, Adoption, Family of God, Eschatology, Christian Life
key topics:
The birth of the church and Acts 2
The Old Testament roots of the church
The significance of God’s covenant and presence
The metaphor of adoption and family in Scripture
The expansive nature of God’s people and inclusion of foreigners
The relationship between vertical (God) and horizontal (people) relationships
The role of the church in social responsibility and justice
The eschatological hope for the end of nations and kingdoms
chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
05:22 - The Importance of Church Community
08:28 - Understanding the Church’s Origins
11:35 - The Role of the Old Testament in Defining the Church
14:28 - Continuity Between the Old and New Testament
17:32 - The Nature of God’s Covenant with His People
20:34 - The Expansive Nature of God’s Family
23:40 - The Dynamics of Church Membership
26:32 - Adoption and Relationships in the Church
31:22 - The Metaphor of Adoption in Faith
33:00 - Living as Children of God
34:50 - Cultural Contexts and Family Systems
36:02 - God’s Wrath and Social Responsibility
43:09 - The Kingdom of God vs. National Identity
52:42 - Women in Ministry and Gender Dynamics
Get full access to Marc Jolicoeur (aka Jolly Thoughts) at marcjolicoeur.substack.com/subscribe
Did Jesus really say He was God?
Belief in Jesus’ divinity is generally held to be a core Christian belief (if you need a refresher on the Nicene Creed, you can check out last year’s conversation with Dr Jerome Van Kuiken), but recent survey data out of the US seems to indicate that roughly 43% of American evangelicals do not necessarily believe He was God… which is mindblowing, yes, but perhaps not entirely surprising, since biblical scholars have been chipping away at the criteria for this case for a long time now. However, it’s also not the question we’re asking here. The question isn’t “Was Jesus God?” or even “Did Jesus’ earliest followers believe He was God?”, but “Did Jesus really say He was God?”
This is the question that apologist, scholar, and doctor Mikel Del Rosario pursues in his new book of the same name. In this ranging conversation, Mikel walks us through the basic claims of his book, some of his journey with apologetics, and what a coffee shop conversation with Bart Ehrman might look like.
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
05:47 - Understanding Apologetics
09:39 - Engaging with Bart Ehrman’s Perspectives
15:46 - Analyzing Key Biblical Scenes
18:40 - Clash of Authority: Jesus and Jewish Leadership
24:42 - The Authority to Forgive: A Historical Perspective
28:32 - The Trial of Jesus: Claims of Divine Authority
34:26 - Understanding Merism: Authority in Context
41:10 - Faith and Scholarship: Balancing Belief and Critical Inquiry
Keywords: Jesus Christ, Divinity, Mark Gospel, Apologetics, Historical Jesus, Biblical Reliability, Christian Faith, Jesus Claims, Gospel of Mark, Religious History
Resources:
Did Jesus Really Say He Was God? by Mikel Del Rosario || https://www.ivpress.com/did-jesus-really-say-he-was-god
Bart Ehrman’s Book ‘How Jesus Became God’ || https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Jesus_Became_God
Mikel Del Rosario’s Profile || https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeldelrosario/
Moody Bible Institute || https://www.moody.edu/academics/faculty/mikel-del-rosario/
Get full access to Marc Jolicoeur (aka Jolly Thoughts) at marcjolicoeur.substack.com/subscribe
-“…despite a relatively high bar for entry, the young church grew rapidly…” (pg 30 of Making Disciples by Alex Fogleman
)
Some churches offer what is sometimes called “spontaneous baptism” (an opportunity for someone to show up on a Sunday morning who had not planned to get baptized to get straight into the water that very morning), while some churches have a 2-3 year waiting period between when a person expresses a desire to be baptized and when they can actually go through the waters. How can we have such a wide range between these criteria? What makes a person “ready” for baptism? Traditionally, the church has called this gap (however wide or narrow) “catechesis”. If you grew up or around the kind of church tradition I did, though, it’s possible this is a term you have never heard.
Good news, though; Alex Fogleman has written a wonderfully accessible and helpful book on the topic! He’s not a stick in the mud, and he doesn’t bog down on terminology, but he’s a helpful conversation partner in the process of coming to grips with how we become (and make) disciples of Jesus Christ in the here & now.
If you find this conversation helpful, please consider checking out Alex’s book, Making Disciples, wherever books are sold… and consider sharing this pod with a friend that came to mind whilst listening!
Alex Fogleman → https://tas.edu/people/dr-alex-fogleman
Making Disciples → https://www.amazon.ca/Making-Disciples-Catechesis-Theology-Practice/dp/0802883850/
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
03:55 Background of Alex Fogleman
05:10 The Journey to Anglicanism and Catechesis
08:04 The Importance of Discipleship in the Church
11:22 Understanding the Catechumenate
14:18 The Role of Catechesis in Early Christianity
17:16 The Evolution of Catechesis Through the Centuries
20:10 Augustine’s Approach to Teaching and Catechesis
23:18 The Process of Becoming a Catechumen
26:12 The Church’s Role in Education and Inclusivity
29:05 Historical Overview of Catechesis from Early Church to Present
32:31 The Historical Context of Catechesis
38:45 Evangelicalism and the Challenge of Catechesis
43:29 Authentic Christianity: Belief, Behavior, and Experience
51:39 Moral Formation in Contemporary Christianity
59:00 The Role of Catechesis in Modern Faith Practices
Keywords:
catechesis, early church, Christian formation, discipleship, theology, church history, Wesleyan, Anglican, spiritual growth, religious education
Get full access to Marc Jolicoeur (aka Jolly Thoughts) at marcjolicoeur.substack.com/subscribe
“Oversaturation is not the same thing as abundance.” - Alyson Pryor
In this lenten episode of the pod, I am blessed to have been able to have this timely conversation with Alyson Pryor (who holds degrees in psychology from both the University of Southern California and Fuller Theological Seminary, as well as an MA in Spiritual Formation and Soul Care from Talbot Seminary). Alyson currently serves as a staff spiritual director and adjunct faculty member at Biola University, from whence she was able to publish this brand new guide to spiritual retreats, Come Away & Rest. The book is not just an apologetic case for the idea of retreat, but an actual step-by-step guide to said retreats.
I was so grateful to have been able to have access to Alyson’s wisdom for this conversation, and I think you too will appreciate her insights into the good, bad, and ugly of retreating.
BOOK INFO: https://www.ivpress.com/come-away-and-rest
EXCERPT: https://www.ivpress.com/Media/Default/Downloads/Excerpts-and-Samples/A1122-excerpt.pdf
BIO: https://www.ivpress.com/alyson-pryor
VISIT HER WEBSITE: https://alysonpryor.com
Chapters:
00:00 - Opening
03:30 - Alyson’s Journey to Rest
09:10 - Understanding Retreats in a Christian Context
12:12 - Practical Elements of Retreats
18:02 - The Call to Redemption and Personal Worth
20:49 - The Journey of Rest and Intimacy with God
23:40 - Creating Retreats: Structure and Support
25:22 - The Importance of Content in Retreats
28:23 - On-Ramps and Off-Ramps: Preparing for Retreats
34:16 = Lent: A Season of Reflection and Preparation
37:18 - Jesus as Our Model for Retreat and Resilience
keywords: spiritual retreats, Christian practices, rest, Lent, personal growth, silence, solitude, spiritual direction, mindfulness, prayer
(ai) summary: In this episode of the Jolly Thoughts podcast, Marc Jolicoeur and Alyson Pryor discuss the significance of spiritual retreats in the Christian faith, particularly in the context of Lent. They explore Alyson’s personal journey towards finding rest and the importance of creating structured retreats that allow individuals to connect with God. The conversation delves into the challenges of modern life that hinder true rest and the necessity of preparing for and reflecting on retreat experiences. They also highlight Jesus as the ultimate model for retreating and the transformative power of silence and solitude.
Get full access to Marc Jolicoeur (aka Jolly Thoughts) at marcjolicoeur.substack.com/subscribe
In Drunk In The Spirit, Dr Merrill Greene gives us a behind-the-scenes and BANANAS look at the ways that charismaticism is not only lived out today, but is rooted in some truly weird experiences outlined in our holy texts.
I had Merrill on a few years ago (ep 39), and now that this conversation is done, I can’t wait to have him on again! Oh, for reference to the How God Works podcast ep I was referencing on shamanism, it’s right here.
Thanks for reading Marc Jolicoeur (aka Jolly Thoughts)! This post is public so feel free to share it.
Get full access to Marc Jolicoeur (aka Jolly Thoughts) at marcjolicoeur.substack.com/subscribe
For this episode of the pod, I wanted to hear from someone who is both a friend & brother in Christ and has also fallen on the other side of where I have on a variety of ideological lines. Oh, and if he can be funny too, bonus. Cue Phil Hutchings.
We only get the briefest snapshot of Phil’s story in this podcast, but rest assured, it’s a wild one. In this generous conversation, Phil knowingly walks into chats he knows I largely differ with him about (civil disobedience, religious liberty, the primacy of “tongues”, and the taboo topic of “biblical prosperity”), and yet he engages thoughtfully & gracefully (if not also “pointedly”). Did Phil convince me on these topics? No. Am I more of a fan of Sean Feucht’s music now than I was before? No. But am I glad to have been able to talk like this? You better believe it!
Chapters:
00:00 - Opening
08:03 - Building a Community and Church Ownership
11:27 - Musical Connections and Shared History
15:15 - Podcasting and Conversations
16:47 - Sean Feucht’s Controversial Visit to Canada
24:04 - Revival in Canada: Perspectives and Experiences
26:52 - The Nature of Religious Persecution
29:56 - Revival and the Church’s Power
34:44 - Government Overreach and Church Response
38:42 - The Church as a Rescue Center
43:21 - Healing, Blessing, and the Holy Spirit
52:55 - Understanding Prosperity in Faith
55:38 - The Purpose of Prosperity
57:30 - Money as a Tool for Impact
1:00:38 - The Hypocrisy of Anti-Prosperity Preachers
1:03:28 - Understanding Prosperity in the New Testament
01:06:13 - The Role of the Church in Financial Blessings
01:10:08 - The Power of the Holy Spirit and Prosperity
01:12:07 - Unity in Diversity of Beliefs
keywords: church, revival, Sean Feucht, COVID-19, prosperity, faith, community, podcast, music, civil disobedience, jesus, religious freedom
Get full access to Marc Jolicoeur (aka Jolly Thoughts) at marcjolicoeur.substack.com/subscribe
“...the Bible is from God, and God exists outside of time. When we enter into the Bible, we are entering into the life of God, and this enables us to make the past and future of the Bible our present, to read ourselves into its stories and see our life through its pages…”
- Michael Niebauer, Four Mountains
This is one of my favourite kinds of conversations; a chat about the Bible with a wise & gifted person who has spent intentional time viewing it from an angle I’m unfamiliar with. Michael was generous with his time & perspective, and we’re the better for it. We discuss his book, Four Mountains: Encountering God In The Bible From Eden To Zion, which provides a framework for understanding the whole of scripture in a way that shows us Christ on the opening pages of the book.
This conversation is just the briefest snapshot of the book, so if you find you’ve enjoyed the chat, I’d highly encourage you to check it out.
Chapters:03:03 - Journey to the Anglican Faith05:27 - Church Planting and Ministry Focus08:36 - Theological Education and Writing Journey11:35 - Understanding Mountains in the Bible14:30 - Figural Readings and Early Christian Interpretation17:35 - Mountains as Spiritual Encounters20:38 - The Significance of Eden as a Mountain23:28 - Exploring Mount Sinai and Its Importance26:37 - Cultural Context of Mountains in Religion29:17 - Understanding Zion: A Complex Concept34:51 - The Tabernacle: Climbing the Mountain of Worship39:23 - Hierarchy in Worship: Individual vs. Corporate Experience48:17 - Mount Tabor: The Transfiguration of Jesus56:01 - Interpreting Scripture: Balancing Tradition and ExplorationKeywords:
Jolly Thoughts Podcast, Michael Niebauer, Four Mountains, Biblical Theology, Church Planting, Anglican Ministry, Encountering God, Systematic Theology, Spiritual Growth, Worship
Get full access to Marc Jolicoeur (aka Jolly Thoughts) at marcjolicoeur.substack.com/subscribe
If worship is for God and not for humanity, is there any real argument for worship to be “contextual” (look different at different times and in different places)? If such arguments do exist, how much flexibility is there? The music? The architecture? The sacraments? Is anything sacred… or is everything sacred?
In this mind-bending conversation with Dr Kenneth Wallace Jr, we talk about his work in ethnodoxolgy, and we graze around our theological fields trying to determine which of the cows are sacred. From questions about the necessity of “wine” for the Eucharist to the questioning of water being required for baptism, this conversation is enough to make anyone’s head spin, but (hopefully) also help us see the importance of connecting our rituals to meaning.
I’m curious: What did you think? 👇
Chapters -
00:00 - Introduction to the Jolly Thoughts Podcast
05:43 - Exploring Ethnodoxology and Worship Contexts
13:06 - Kenny Wallace’s Journey and Background
19:03 - Understanding Ethnodoxology
24:39 - Cultural Expressions in Worship
31:26 - The Need for Ethnodoxology
37:13 - Accretions in Worship Practices
44:42 - Cultural Context and Worship Practices
47:38 - Curiosity and Respect in Interactions
51:44 - Engaging with Indigenous Ceremonies
56:17 - The Meaning Behind Rituals
1:00:13 - Contextualization of Communion
1:05:25 - Understanding Baptism in Different Cultures
Keywords: ethnodoxology, worship, cultural expressions, Kenneth Wallace, Jolly Thoughts Podcast, worship practices, church history, cultural heritage, worship studies, community engagement, cultural context, worship practices, curiosity, respect, indigenous ceremonies, communion, baptism, ethnodoxology, spirituality, Christianity
Takeaways:
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Ethnodoxology is about worship in local contexts.
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Cultural expressions of worship are essential to understanding faith.
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Kenny Wallace’s journey reflects a diverse background in worship studies.
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The importance of contextualizing worship practices in different cultures.
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Historical church practices have influenced modern worship.
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Accretions in worship can dilute the core message of the gospel.
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Cultural heritage can enrich worship experiences.
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Trust and respect are vital in community and worship settings.
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The role of curiosity in understanding different cultural practices.
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Worship should reflect the diversity of God’s creation. Self-mutilation and sexual immorality are not acceptable in Christian worship.
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Technology can dehumanize individuals, affecting our respect for them.
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Cultural items in worship must be critically evaluated against scripture.
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Curiosity about others fosters respect and understanding.
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Engaging with indigenous ceremonies requires sensitivity and awareness.
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The function of a ritual can change based on cultural context.
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Communion can be expressed through various cultural forms without losing its meaning.
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Baptism can be contextualized using indigenous practices like sage smoke.
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Understanding the meaning behind rituals is more important than the form they take.
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Building relationships is essential for effective ministry.
Get full access to Marc Jolicoeur (aka Jolly Thoughts) at marcjolicoeur.substack.com/subscribe
“Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.” (Proverbs 22:6, King James Version)
Is that verse a promise or an observation? For over half a century now, Christian parenting books have been banking on (and banking from) it being the former. In their own book (The Myth of Good Christian Parenting), Marissa Franks Burt & Kelsey Kramer McGinnis raise the question anew, and ask us to do the same.
This was a hard conversation for me, in many respects. Not because the authors of the book were anything short of pleasant, and not because their work is anything less than well-executed, but because engaging with it caused me to look pretty deep inside & question some of my own presuppositions & unexamined feelings about the parent-child relationship.
Maybe I’ll be alone in that. Maybe not.
Below you’ll find bios for both authors, links to follow them online, and opportunities to order the book (which launches in Canada on October 14th, 2025). You can also leave a comment or reach out with any of your own thoughts. Oh, and for a video version of this convo, here’s the YouTube link.
Chapters:
00:01 - Intro
03:11 - Exploring Parenting Dynamics and Backgrounds
04:44 - The Genesis of a Collaborative Project
07:56 - The Myth of Good Christian Parenting
10:55 - Understanding Parenting Expertise and Experience
13:40 - Promises and Threats in Christian Parenting
16:39 - Methodology and Research Insights
20:04 - Key Themes in Christian Parenting Resources
23:01 - Authority and Obedience in Parenting
25:54 - Rhetorical Choices and Language in Parenting Discussions
28:21 - Authority and Parenting Dynamics
33:54 - Discipline: Rethinking Approaches
47:35 - The Role of Authority in Parenting
58:55 - Cultural Influences on Parenting Practices
Keywords:
Christian parenting, parenting promises, discipline, authority, evangelical families, parenting resources, child development, parenting methodology, parenting insights, parenting challenges, bible
Marissa Franks Burt (MA in Theological Studies, Columbia International University) is a novelist, editor, teacher, and cohost of the At Home with the Lectionary and In the Church Library podcasts. She lives in a small town in Washington’s Snoqualmie Valley with her husband, six children, and heaps of books.
Kelsey Kramer McGinnis (PhD, University of Iowa) is a musicologist, educator, and correspondent for Christianity Today, writing on worship practices and Christian subculture. She is an adjunct professor at Grand View University in Des Moines and previously worked at the University of Iowa Center for Human Rights.
The book is available for pre-order across platforms:
Find the book on Amazon
Order from Baker for guaranteed release day delivery
Bookshop book link
Audible link
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Instagram: @mburtwrites | @kelseykmcginnis
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Threads: @mburtwrites | @kelseykmcginnis
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Facebook: @mburtwrites | @kelsey.kramermcginnis
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Bluesky: @mburtwrites | @kkramermcginnis
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TikTok: @mburtwrites | @kelseykmcg
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Substack: @mburtwrites | @kelseykramermcginnis
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YouTube: @mburtwrites
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Website: Marissa |
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“It is not as though our choice is between history and imagination. Our only choice is between historically informed imagination and imagination unconstrained by historical evidence.” (pg 156 of Christmaker by James F McGrath)
Who was “John the Baptist”? You might feel like you already know the answer, or you might not even care about that question, but either way, James McGrath’s recent pair of works (Christmakerand John of History, Baptist of Faith) will very likely change your mind.
In this conversation we dive right in on what motivated McGrath to take this deeper look into the historical sources on John, who the Mandaeans are, and what a nice kid from Brooklyn is doing in a life of Biblical studies.
In the intro I mention that James wrote the introduction to Alan Streett’s most recent book (which I talk with him about in this podcast) and that I wrote a review of a book that he contributed to for RSR (The Biblical World of Gender) over here. This conversation was a long time coming!
James was an extremely kind & gracious conversation partner, and I hope you appreciate this conversation even half as much as I did!
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Keywords:
John the Baptist, Jesus, influence, Gospel of Matthew, message, Brood of Vipers
Chapters:
00:01 - Intro
03:10 - The Journey to Biblical Scholarship
05:20 - Exploring John the Baptist: The Christmaker
08:00 - Researching John the Baptist: A Year of Discovery
10:20 - The Influence of John on Jesus
13:30 - The Mandaic Connection: Understanding John the Baptist
16:10 - Jesus as a Disciple of John the Baptist
19:15 - Implications for Christian Faith and Practice
32:42 - Exploring the John the Baptist Movement
35:24 - The Historical Context of Baptism
39:47 - Baptism: A New Approach to Forgiveness
48:18 - Rebaptism and Its Significance
55:18 - John the Baptist: A Unique Figure in History
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“...we find consistent and systematic emphasis on repetitive and daily practices throughout Wesley's life and teachings that have the potential to train the person to breathe.” - Chad Maxson
What might “breathing” (the physical act of bringing in & pushing out breath from our lungs) have to do with spirituality in general and Wesleyan Christianity in particular, and how does Taoism figure into the conversation (if, indeed, it does at all)?
In this conversation, Dr Chad Maxson (longtime friend, first time podcast guest) walks us around his recent article hosted in the Wesley Theological Journal entitled Agency & the People of God: How Daoism Makes Christianity More Efficacious. It partially scratches a constant itch of mine, namely the interaction between God’s actions & our own human actions, so I was excited to have had the opportunity to chat with Chad all about it.
(For a video version of this conversation, check out my YouTube channel here.)
Chapters:
02:00 - Exploring Literature and Recommendations
02:32 - The Role of Education in Theology
04:54 - Agency and Revelation in Christianity
08:35 - Wesleyan Perspectives on Grace and Sanctification
11:23 - Wesley's Journey and Spiritual Assurance
14:21 - Empirical Expectations in Faith
17:39 - Understanding Sin and Transformation
20:33 - Theological Reflections on Paul and Wesley
21:28 - The Transformative Power of the Holy Spirit
23:28 - Wesley's Organizational Genius and Its Challenges
25:04 - The Role of Poverty in Spiritual Transformation
27:24 - Sanctification and Relationships
30:21 - Eucharist as a Converting Ordinance
32:12 - Monism vs. Dualism in Christian Thought
37:08 - Daoism as a Wisdom Tradition
41:59 - Breath and Spirituality in Christianity
47:55 - The Nature of Grace and Human Agency
Keywords:
Christianity, Agency, Wesleyanism, Holiness Movement, Daoism, Spirituality, Transformation, Grace, Empirical Expectations, Breath
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“...the shocking argument of this book is that cultural Christians could exist and even flourish in a world in which Christianity was a persecuted minority.” – Dr Nadya Williams, Cultural Christians in the Early Church
In this conversation, Dr Nadya Williams unloads a ton of mindblowing insight about the way culture has impacted Christianity since the very beginning. There are more hot-button topics in this hour than you can shake a stick at (prostitution, pornography, medical assistance in dying, Christian nationalism, COFFEE), so watch out!
You can watch this conversation on YouTube here: Jolly Thoughts on YouTube
To follow Nadya, check out her Substack: Nadya on Substack
For reference to the Religion News Service article on people participating in multiple churches: RNS Article
If you feel the need to subject yourself to the madness of a Tucker Carlson v Ted Cruz conversations, here’s the one referenced: Tucker Carlson & Ted Cruz on X
Keywords: Christianity, cultural Christians, early church, Nadja Williams, Ananias and Sapphira, Corinthian church, Christian nationalism, purity culture, church growth, historical context
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro & Exploring Cultural Christianity
05:00 - Ananias and Sapphira: A Case Study
09:00 - The Role of Food in Early Christianity
13:00 - Cultural Context of the Corinthian Church
16:00 - Legalism vs. Christian Freedom
21:00 - The Impact of the Pandemic on Worship
23:30 - Circulating Faith: The Role of Youth Groups
25:00 - Historical Context: Early Church Dynamics
29:30 - Sectarian Violence: The Donatist Controversy
32:00 - Military and Faith: Christians in the Roman Army
37:00 - Cultural Shifts: Alcohol and Christian Identity
40:15 - Purity Culture: A Double-Edged Sword
44:45 - The Church as Family: Care and Community
47:30 - Contemporary Issues: Hyper-Individualism and AI
51:30 - Christian Nationalism: A Historical Perspective
53:30 - The Imago Dei: Humanity in Conflict
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What if your memory isn’t your memory? Would it matter? In what way would it matter?
In this mini-recording, I unpack my own self-discovery of something tantamount to an accidental self-deception, and open it to the crowd to see if there’s anything to be learned from it.
This is the podcast episode I mentioned: Devil & The Deep Blue Sea episode #7 (The Spell Breaks)
This is the super-cool bridge I mentioned: Confederation Bridge
This is the upcoming run I mentioned: Terry Fox Run across Confederation Bridge
And in case you don’t know who Anne Of Green Gables is…
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Ep 83 with Keith Bodner LIVE!!!
I’m inclined to try & call this something like a “very special after-school special” episode of the Jolly Thoughts pod, but… it was actually recorded at school (Crandall University, to be precise, and aided by the illustrious Darrell Nevers). In this conversation, the incomparable Dr Keith Bodner gives us a bit of a flyover on the concept of reading the Bible as narrative literature. Why would we listen to his opinion on this? Oh, no reason, other than he basically wrote the book on it… or, edited the book on it.
This conversation is a little less “conversational” than I tend to like it, but it’s tough when you’re not only talking to your conversation partner but also a classroom full of onlookers with notepads. Also, I regret not titling this the “Bodcast”… missed opportunities abound.
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In “The Creed We Need”, Jerome Van Kuiken gives us a very compact but loaded tour through the interactions between the ancient witness of the Nicene Creed and the less-ancient but now “traditional” theological underpinnings of the [John] Wesleyan[an] movement(s). In this fun & wide-ranging conversation, we hit up all kinds of topics. I’d love to hear from you: Which part was your favourite?
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction and Background
05:55 - Exploring the Nicene Creed
12:00 - Understanding the Role of the Church
18:01 - Theological Implications of the Creed
23:58 - Distinguishing the Nicene Creed Versions
29:45 - Utilizing Texts for Educational Purposes
41:01 - Understanding Apostolic Authority
52:12 - Salvation and Grace in Wesleyan Tradition
keywords: Nicene Creed, Wesleyan theology, Christian faith, church history, biblical foundations, theological education, John Wesley, ecumenism, faith and works, spirituality, Trinitarian language, education, Tom Holland, cultural influence, Filioque, apostolic authority, salvation, Wesleyan tradition, grace, church history
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I’ve known Natasha Dongell since I was a kid (which was longer ago for me than for her, I assure you), and I’ve long looked up to her as a source of wisdom, but this newly released book of hers (a memoir titled When Lynn Died) is a resource on grief that I truly hope makes a broad impact in the world.
In our conversation we briefly recap the story of crisis that led to her wanting/needing to write this book, but beyond that, she shares helpful thoughts on how people can deal with grief & the grieving, while also giving us a vulnerable window into a life that is not “perfect” but is healed.
To follow along with Natasha’s Substack, find her here (and to watch this conversation via video you can either do so on YouTube here or experimentally embedded in the post below.
Chapters:
05:48 - Understanding the Book's Purpose
08:59 - The Crisis: Lynn's Sudden Death
10:15 - Navigating Grief and Community Support
12:10 - The Role of Vulnerability in Healing
15:05 - Cultural Perspectives on Grief
18:20 - Practical Tips for Supporting the Grieving
29:22 - Navigating Vulnerability in Grief
35:03 - The Importance of Community Support
39:23 - The Journey of Writing a Book on Grief
48:55 - Remarriage and Processing Grief
01:03:44 - Finding Balance in New Relationships
01:07:32 - New Chapter
keywords: grief, loss, emotional intelligence, church, support, relationships, healing, vulnerability, mourning, community
Some Takeaways:
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Lynn's unexpected death was a profound shock.
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Grief is often poorly understood in church communities.
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Emotional intelligence is crucial in navigating grief.
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Vulnerability is uncomfortable but necessary for healing.
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Supportive relationships are key to processing grief.
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The church often struggles with acknowledging brokenness.
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Language around grief is often lacking in Western culture.
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It's important to lean in and ask about the lost loved ones.
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Listening to the names of the deceased can be healing.
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Building trust with others is essential for sharing grief.
Get full access to Marc Jolicoeur (aka Jolly Thoughts) at marcjolicoeur.substack.com/subscribe
Are miracles “violations” of the laws of nature? Are demons and ghosts more than just a relic of ancient mythology? Is there any truth behind modern-day exorcism? Do some people possess prophetic abilities? Are near-death experiences a true glimpse of the afterlife? Can the worldview of the ancient texts of Scripture help us interpret these supernatural phenomena?
These are the kinds of questions that Matt McGuire tackles in his work in general and in his book in particular. In this conversation we run the gambit from ghosts to “zener cards” (check out the YouTube video for that), and a variety of stops along the way.
There were so many things I wanted to talk about (including John Wesley’s apparent use of “casting lots”), but time flies when you’re talking about this stuff. In the show’s intro I mention this recent Joe Rogan podcast, which we also do not talk about, but is a great example of how hungry people are for the esoteric. Do you have any examples of paranormal experiences that may or may not “fit well” with your own understandings of how stuff works?
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
05:15 - Education & Career Path
07:40 - Exploring the Supernatural
10:48 - Parapsychology and Personal Journey
13:38 - The Rhine Research Center
16:28 - Scientific Methods in Parapsychology
19:11 - Understanding Zener Cards
21:35 - Skepticism and Acceptance
24:50 - ESP and Spirituality
27:41 - Theories on Innate Abilities
31:16 - Exploring Miraculous Abilities Across Cultures
32:54 - The Importance of Meditative Practices in Spirituality
36:58 - Understanding Parapsychology and Christian Spiritual Gifts
42:27 - The Nature of Christian Prophecy and Spiritual Gifts
45:47 - The Biblical Perspective on Seeking Spiritual Gifts
51:50 - Experiences at Charismatic Conferences and Healing
58:18 - The Role of Worship in Altered States of Consciousness
1:01:36 - Navigating Supernatural Experiences in ChristianityKeywords:
parapsychology, psychic phenomena, altered states, consciousness, collective effervescence, ESP, psychokinesis, religious rituals, trance states, sensory deprivation
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By the year 2040, churches will no longer have Sunday morning sermons… Joel Murphy said so.
Just kidding, just kidding… I said so, and then said that Joel said so. It was my attempt at “futuring”, which is something that I don’t officially do. But Joel does.
In his role at Futuring Hub, Joel is part of a team that exist to “consider tomorrow in order to anticipate and shape today’s church.” In this conversation, we get a crash course on futuring, consider some of its pros & cons, and then begin to feel out how its outputs are already being applied into our contexts. I learned a lot, and hope you will to!
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How does a man who grew up in an anti-Christian cult (one which attempted to convince him that people with his skin tone ought not follow Christ) end up a professing Christian pursuing academic studies in order to be better equipped to bring the Christian message to his own home community? That’s what this conversation (in part) helps to illuminate.
Hakeem Bradley’s story is full of ups, downs, people who helped point the way, and Jesus. To follow along with his ongoing story you can find him on Instagram, or check out his ongoing work over at the Bible Project. You’ll also see him soon as part of the resources offered by John Mark Comer & crew.
For a link to the book Hakeem referenced, click here.
For more info on Ridley College, click here.
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction and Context Setting
08:33 - Understanding the 5% Nation
14:46 - The Move to Portland and Its Impact
20:43 - Family Dynamics and Religious Background
26:40 - Exploring Church Culture and Personal Experiences
35:48 - Defining the Moment of Faith Commitment
41:40 - Transitioning from Youth Ministry to Biblical Scholarship
46:49 - Pursuing Doctoral Studies and Cultural Contextualization
54:20 - Exploring the Epistle of James
1:04:24 - Navigating Cultural Perspectives in Theology
keywords: Christianity, cultural perspectives, early church, 5% Nation, faith journey, youth ministry, biblical studies, diversity in theology, community impact, church history
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For some people, the word “gospel” is mostly connected to a genre of music. For others, it may conjure significant debate on what exactly it is. In Matt Bates’ new book, Why The Gospel?, he tries rather to take a look behind the curtain at the purpose for the “Good News” that others are arguing about.
This conversation is just a teaser at some of the great work Matt has done & is doing. If you’d like to keep up with him on socials, he has a Facebook & a X profile, and he remains an active voice on the ever-excellent OnScript podcast.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction and Technical Setup
03:00 Exploring Matt's Academic Background
06:14 Understanding the Gospel and Its Implications
12:53 Defining the Gospel: Key Elements
17:45 The Role of Incarnation in the Gospel
24:45 Theological Insights on Glory and Image-Bearing
28:40 Understanding Salvation from God's Perspective
31:44 The Role of Atonement in Christian Theology
34:26 Faith vs. Faithfulness: A New Perspective
42:33 Justification and the Nature of Salvation
54:56 The Church as a Political Body Under Christ's Authority
keywords: gospel, faith, Paul, hermeneutics, incarnation, atonement, baptism, Christian nationalism, theology, community
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When it comes to religion & politics, there’s a difference between “personal” & “private”. At least, that’s Mike MacNeil says in this conversation… and I’m inclined to agree.
Mike is the author of three books (Jesus Kicks // Jesus Wears An Orange Jumpsuit // Holy Spit!), a hoppin’ Substack blog (Soul Apologetics), and is a pastor on staff @ Kings Church in Atlantic Canada, where he gives leadership to their in-house Kings Academy.
This is a pretty wide-ranging conversation, but if you’re particularly interested in the singular episode of another podcast we mention, it happens to be here: Jordan Peterson’s conversation with Greg Laurie
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When Alan Streett found himself sitting around a circle with friends of his listening to a man in a trance embody the voice of a dead loved one, the fact that he was doing so “in Jesus’ name” didn’t seem strange to him… until it did.
In Alan’s newest book (Exploring The Paranormal, from Eerdman’s Publishing), he walks us through several jaw-dropping phases of his own life & personal experience with the paranormal, building to a climactic opportunity to share his own current understanding of these phenomena (one I am admittedly uncomfortable with… though I can’t yet fully articulate why). In this conversation Alan generously walks us through the highlights of his story, and teases out why you might want to explore more of this paranormal treatment for yourself.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
06:53 Exploring the Paranormal: A Journey Begins
10:00 From Baseball Dreams to Spiritual Exploration
12:46 The Shift to Seminary and Psychic Phenomena
16:02 The Encounter with God and Transformation
19:05 The Charismatic Movement and Its Influence
21:56 The Evolution of Beliefs: From Acceptance to Rejection
24:52 The Role of Mentalism in Understanding Psychic Phenomena
27:57 The Third Stage: Magic Tricks vs. Genuine Psychic Abilities
31:01 The Final Stage: A New Perspective on Psychic Phenomena
37:03 The Healing Power of Meditation
40:35 Understanding Brain Waves and Consciousness
43:09 Exploring Altered States of Consciousness
47:29 The Subconscious Mind and Its Powers
53:24 Faith, Miracles, and the Power of Belief
56:45 Distinguishing Between Spiritual Experiences
1:00:43 The Nature of Phenomena and Their Origins
Keywords:
paranormal, spirituality, psychic phenomena, Christianity, miracles, faith, subconscious mind, Alan Streett, Jolly Thoughts podcast, spiritual experiences
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“For years, psychedelics were my religion. All I ever wanted was The Thing That Would Make Everything Okay Forever, the panacea, the cure for what plagued me. From those first moments when I tasted the earthy pulp of a psilocybin mushroom, it was love. Psychedelics were my sacrament. They shot me into cathedral vaults. The promise of eternal life through chemicals glittered seductively, but hid a yawning abyss…” - Ashley Lande
In this episode of the podcast, we dive into Ashley Lande’s new book (The Thing That Would Make Everything Okay Forever), her memoir about searching for hope & meaning in psychedelic substances, but finding them in the person of Jesus Christ. In this conversation we wrestle with some weighty topics around substance use & abuse, so be fairly warned.
Keywords:
transcendence, psychedelics, spirituality, memoir, Christianity, personal journey, mental health, redemption, faith, Ashley Lande
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction and Background
03:02 The Journey into Psychedelics
09:55 Transitioning from Alcohol to Psychedelics
16:09 The Spiritual Pursuit of Psychedelics
25:00 The Role of Set and Setting
30:56 The Collision of Belief Systems
36:59 The Impact of Personal Tragedy
48:02 The Moment of Conversion
55:20 Reflections on the Journey and Hopes for the Book
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“From what I gather, you fit the bill of the kind of person I have in mind. Raised in the orbit of the church. Not unfamiliar with Jesus or Scripture. Not skeptical of them either. But untutored…”
The above is a brief & early description of the idealized pen-pal (or, “interlocutor”, if you’re nasty/fancy) that Brad East had in mind when writing his new book, Letters To A Future Saint. In this conversation we dig into the book, his motivations for writing it, his hopes for its use, and his preacher-level-passion regarding baptism. We also get a sneak peak at his current work on wrestling with the ramifications of digital technologies on the church (spoiler alert: not all good). This conversation… it’s a doozie!
Brad is an associate professor of theology at Abilene Christian University. He writes widely on Christianity, theology, culture, and politics for a variety of publications including The Christian Century, Christianity Today, Comment, Commonweal, First Things, The Los Angeles Review of Books, and The Point. He’s been interviewed on a number of podcasts including The London Lyceum, The Christian Chronicle, and Curiously, Kaitlyn.
Thanks for reading Marc Jolicoeur (aka Jolly Thoughts)! This post is public so feel free to share it.
CHAPTERS:
00:00 - Introduction and Background
06:30 - Sabbatical and Writing Projects
10:20 - Digital Technology in Ministry
14:30 - Teaching and Student Engagement
18:30 - The Rise of the Nones
22:30 - Literacy and Biblical Knowledge
26:10 - Catechesis and Its Importance
30:40 - Baptism: Understanding Its Significance
34:20 - The Role of the Church
38:30 - Baptism and Personal Experience
42:30 - The Nature of Sacraments
46:20 - Conclusion and Final Thoughts
KEYWORDS:
Brad East, Letters to a Future Saint, baptism, catechesis, technology, biblical literacy, Christian community, faith, church history, spiritual growth
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“Being told to participate - while in fact being unable to participate - is deeply dispiriting to worshipers, especially worshipers with anxiety…” (pg 152 of Worship In An Age Of Anxiety)
This Michael Jordan may or may not be able to palm a basketball, but he can certainly help us wrestle with the deep & challenging topic of how contemporary Christian worship practices (read “Western” and “Evangelical” in there too, likely) interact with those who are experiencing anxiety in our day & age. His new book (Worship In An Age Of Anxiety: How Churches Can Create Space For Healing) is a well-written & thought-provoking treatise on the subject, based in large part on his many years of relevant experience planning & leading worship for students at Houghton University, where he also counselled such students as he lead.
If you’re looking for just a little more from Michael on this topic, he actually wrote a review about the movie Inside Out 2 for CT Magazine recently, which you should be able to read here.
While editing this episode, I also came across this interview with former Bethel worship leader Amanda Cook, which I believe is timely & relevant.
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“Collaboration does not have to be about corruption; it can be about cooperation.” (pg 78 of God’s Ghostwriters)
Have you ever stopped to wonder how the biblical texts were actually written down, and by who (or… whom)? In this episode of the podcast, I chat with Dr Candida Moss about her newest book, God’s Ghostwriters, which is about that very thing. In her own words, Candida is known as a bit of an iconoclast, and this book doesn’t disappoint in that regard, shedding light on (and raising questions about) the nature of inspiration.
Chapters
01:00 Introduction and Background
12:05 Enslaved Collaborators in the New Testament
19:23 Challenging Traditional Notions of Authorship
21:39 The Use of Shorthand in Ancient Writing
25:06 Interpretation and Alteration in the Transmission Process
33:41 The Role of Enslaved People in Biblical Texts
49:41 Challenging Traditional Interpretations
55:59 The Influence of Paratexts
01:01:25 Broadening Perspectives in Bible Reading
Sound Bites
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"Enslaved collaborators wouldn't have made changes to the texts that they were receiving. That doesn't mean they're corrupting things, they might be improving them."
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"There's no theological reason why you could not have more people. You can still have your authors. You just have more of them."
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"Ancient shorthand seems to only have been learned by enslaved or formerly enslaved people because it takes two years to remember."
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"The story of the paralytic... centers enslaved loyalty"
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"Paratexts deeply influence... how we read and think about [the Bible]"
Keywords
Candida Moss, God's Ghost Writers, New Testament, enslaved collaborators, authorship, Bible, secretaries, copyists, divine inspiration, shorthand, interpretation, transmission process, enslaved people, biblical texts, interpretation, marginalized communities, Paul, Gospel narratives, sexual ethics, historical context
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In this episode of the pod, I’m cross-sharing a sermon I was glad to have been able to preach at my local church on Sunday, July 28th, as part of a 10-week series on the Sermon On The Mount. I reference in it this devotional, which is still available online, if interested. Also, the video version of this is available on my YouTube channel.
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David Bennett is a self-described “celibate gay Christian”, but goodness… he is so much more than that! He’s an author, a theologian in residence, with a PhD from none other than Oxford, and he’s a fierce lover of (and follower of) Jesus.
And yet, he’s a controversial character. In large part, this is because of his online presence (which some might construe as “activism”) on behalf of what is often shorthanded as “side-B Christianity”. I hesitate to offer any sort of in-depth definition of that community of belief here (largely because I’m not an expert in it), and yet I also hesitate to let you loose onto the internet to Google it, since… well, there’s no shortage of inflammatory press about it. What’s even more exciting? Those negative reviews tend to come from both the conservative Christian right and the progressive liberal left. It is for this very reason that I wanted to have a conversation with David.
As I hope will be clear throughout the conversation, I am not engaging as an antagonist, but nor am I wholeheartedly agreeing with all of his stances. In my limited experience, the kinds of considerations that David and others like him are bringing forward are important for the church. Of course, as I’ll mention in the audio which is the preamble to our conversation, my opinions are only that: opinions. Though I wear multiple hats, I have no intention of allowing any of those hats to trump my responsibility to teach & uphold the views of the denomination I’m happy & blessed to serve (that is, of course, unless the unthinkable day comes where that denomination comes into conflict with Kingdom values). As such, if you’re interested in knowing a little more about The Wesleyan Church’s interpretation of scripture and how it applies to questions of human sexuality, this little document does a masterful job exploring that.
If this conversation stirs up challenging or uncomfortable thoughts in you, it is my hope that those impulses drive you to conversation, not argument. Primarily, I’m hopeful that our first conversation partner will be God (in Christ, through the Spirit, and in the light of the traditions of the Church), and yet not in a way that we become deaf to the conversations happening around us.
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Conor Conway is a coffee connoisseur, top notch trumpeter, and spiritual conversationalist. Since he is a co-owner of Epoch Coffee in downtown Moncton, I have known of Conor for years now, but this in-depth conversation was long overdue. We dip into his early days with Canadian pop music sensation The Weeknd, drink three marvelously prepared cups of coffee, and dive DEEP into not only his own experiences of God in general and Judaism in particular, but also some of the (good and less-good) ways Judaism & Christianity have historically interacted.
I learned a lot in this conversation, not least about Sistema and Reconstructionist Judaism. I also learned (hopefully) how to do a better job recording a pod in-person rather than online… next time. Please, your patience for the audio-quality is requested! Most importantly, though, I learned that while it is obviously difficult to talk about difficult things, it can be worth doing so with safe people, even if you stumble pretty hard over your own words. I truly appreciated Conor’s grace to me throughout our chat, but especially in the back quarter when we get into one of the hottest of the hot topics (in my world, at least).
During this episode I referenced Carmen Joy Imes’ books. Here’s a link to the podcast I recorded with her: Episode 31
I also referenced my love for David Desteno’s “How God Works” podcast. Here’s a review I wrote of his book: How God Works
If I had thought about it, I would have referenced this previous podcast I recorded with Dr Matt Friedman, who is himself both Jewish & Christian: Episode 36
Chapters:
04:47 // Gesha Village Coffee
08:07 // Multicultural Upbringing and Tasting Differences
13:12 // From Music to Coffee: Conor's Journey
18:50 // Conor's Experience with The Weeknd
30:04 // Religious Identity and Reconstructionist Judaism
37:47 // Coffee Tasting and Cultural Exploration
38:26 // Walking through an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood
39:49 // Orthodox Judaism and the Importance of Community
41:18 // Observing Shabbat and Jewish Law
42:48 // Reconstructionism: Individual Interpretation of Jewish Practices
43:18 // Questioning and Wrestling with Faith
54:53 // The Power of Participating in Ritual
1:07:15 // The Book of Job: Wrestling with Suffering and Seeking Truth
1:14:08 // The Exclusivity of Christianity and the Benefits of Applying Oneself to a Religion
1:24:15 // Navigating the Complexities of Supporting Israelis and Palestinians
1:35:49 // The Rise of Anti-Semitism and the Importance of Difficult Conversations
Keywords:
coffee, flavor, coffee industry, music industry, multicultural, religion, Reconstructionist Judaism, community, religion, Orthodox Judaism, reconstructionism, language, beliefs, questioning, wrestling with faith, book of Job, religion, Christianity, exclusivity, truth claims, applying oneself, benefits, Israel, theological viewpoints, support, Palestinians, anti-Semitism, Jewish community
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Today is the first time I’ve wondered if the movie title “Free Willy” was actually a hidden joke.
…probably not. Nonetheless, the question of just how “free” our wills may be is no longer a conversation restricted to theologians. That said, this conversation is from a theological vantage point. In it, Nathan Adams (who is currently a PhD student @ McGill University) runs us through the paper he recently presented at the Wesleyan Theological Society. Wanna find out more? Either listen to the pod or comb through the guides below.
Hey, if you’ve gotten this far… maybe either leave a comment here (👇) or leave a quick review on your podcast provider of choice… if you’re inclined, that is!
Chapters:
04:04 Intro & "Wesleyan Theological Society"
09:12 What do we mean when we say "Wesleyan"?
13:05 Introduction to Melanchthon and Wesleyan Theological Society Conference
24:44 Luther and Melanchthon's Views on Free Will and Salvation
28:49 Calvin's Denouncement of Melanchthon
32:17 Melanchthon's Understanding of Grace and Human Agency
35:15 The Windmill Analogy: Human Will and God's Initiative
39:04 Faith Arising in the Process of Salvation
45:28 The Preached Word and the Transformation of Hearts
48:23 Looking to Christ and the Assurance of Salvation
50:05 Prevenient Grace and the Urgency of Responding to God's Call
56:11 Similarities Between Catholic and Protestant Perspectives on Salvation
59:38 The Ongoing Reformation Within the Catholic Church
(AI-generated) Conversation Summary:
Nathan Adams presented a paper on Proto Wesleyan Arminian at the Wesleyan Theological Society conference. The paper explores the relationship between God's will and human will in salvation. Adams delves into the theology of Luther, Melanchthon, and Calvin to understand their perspectives on free will and predestination. He highlights the unique position of Wesleyan Arminians, who believe in the involvement of free will in salvation. Adams focuses on Melanchthon's theology, which emphasizes the external action of God upon humans and the role of conviction and faith in salvation. He argues that salvation is not about human striving, but about recognizing our powerlessness and relying on Christ's resources. The conversation explores the concept of salvation and the role of human agency in the process. It discusses the prevailing approach of presenting salvation as a cost-benefit analysis and contrasts it with the views of Melanchthon, Luther, and Wesley. Melanchthon's view is that everything in salvation is from God, and human will is best pictured as a windmill that desires the wind of the Spirit to move it. The conversation also touches on the significance of the preached word in initiating salvation and the assurance of salvation. It concludes by discussing the modern implications of these theological perspectives.
(AI-generated) Sound Bites:
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"One of the perennial problems of theology, any theology, is the relation between God's will and human will in salvation."
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"Salvation is something that God's doing. It starts outside of us. We're not the initiators. None of the resources for this are coming from within us."
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"You don't have a free will to do good things in regards to God. The standard's too high, you're too selfish. It's really just a will that could say no to God, but any yes that your will says, it's not even you saying yes, it's really God saying yes."
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"We all do it in a very semi-Pelagian way. We basically present Christ like a cost benefit analysis."
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"The human will is best pictured as a windmill... The windmill can't make it happen. It's only as the wind blows on the windmill, the wind of the spirit, that the windmill will move."
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"If I think that the only way that anything's gonna happen is if God is moving and present in that moment, then I'm preaching for a miracle."
Keywords: Proto Wesleyan Arminian, Wesleyan Theological Society conference, God's will, human will, salvation, Luther, Melanchthon, Calvin, free will, predestination, Wesleyan Arminians, conviction, faith, powerlessness, Christ's resources, salvation, human agency, cost-benefit analysis, Melanchthon, Luther, Wesley, preached word, assurance of salvation
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Tim Perry has some strong feelings about the state of the Church at large, and he’s not afraid to lay them out for open & honest dialogue. In this wide-ranging conversation we discuss:
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the unique place of Mary in Christian Theology throughout history, and how that intersects with today
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the potential dangers of “dismissing” Mary
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the latent worth of the Old Testament in the Church today
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the value of embracing a whole-person, embodied worship experience
We get into some nitty gritty weeds a few times in this conversation, and I walked away with some areas of potential disagreement, but I deeply valued Tim’s time and his expertise, and hope you’ll enjoy this conversation. You can find some of Tim’s books at Lexham Press, but might need to hunt / bid for some of the others.
“I would say to evangelicals, ‘Be very careful in disparaging or getting rid of Mary, because she’ll go (she’s not a bully), but she’ll take her son with her… and you end up with a Jesus who is a motivational speaker, or who’s a politician haranguing you to get on the right or the left side of whatever is the cause du jour, but you don’t have the divine-human Saviour anymore.’” - Tim Perry
Keywords: connections, Christian traditions, denominations, research, Mary, Evangelicals, Catholicism, Orthodox, Protestant churches, Bible, Mary, Christian theology, worship, Scripture, grace, unique place, fully divine, fully human, Old Testament, embodied worship
Get full access to Marc Jolicoeur (aka Jolly Thoughts) at marcjolicoeur.substack.com/subscribe
A few episodes back I shared my conversation with W David O Taylor, wherein we got nerdy on the question of whether or not Jesus could have been considered an “artist”. I shared part of that conversation during the Sunday morning message attached to Moncton Wesleyan Church’s annual arts fest (Imagine). This podcast is the remainder of that message...
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Imagine ‘24 (an annual Arts Fest that I’m quite involved in) is well in the rearview mirror now. Soon I’ll be posting the message I was pleased to be able to share as part of Moncton Wesleyan’s Sunday morning service (a service that featured live dance, live painting, and some other beautiful artistic expressions), but this episode is actually a panel conversation with visual artist Leanne Prescott and songwriter Aaron Bartlett, both of whom are on Imagine’s Lead Team. We recorded this conversation live & in real-time as part of Imagine ‘24’s Saturday Sessions, and the technology was giving us a little grief, so please bear with some of the glitchiness. I’m grateful for these two folks, and am glad to be able to share this wide-ranging conversation about art, the church, and the space(s) between.
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This episode of the pod is me riffing briefly on the waiting that Holy Saturday interposes into the celebration of Easter, followed by a sermon that was part of Moncton Wesleyan’s “Domino Effect” series.
I’m releasing this episode just a few hours after what amounted to a historic Good Friday service in the city of Moncton. Officially 5 churches (and several others “unofficially”) joined together in remembrance, and it was immensely powerful. Right after the service, I got into a brief conversation with someone I know who’d been participating in Lent this year a little more intentionally than has been their typical practice. He said to me, “It was… less impactful than I thought it was going to be.” Honestly, to me, this was beautiful to hear. I feel we need to be honest with ourselves & with others, honest with our expectations, honest with our gains & with our losses. I acknowledged to this individual that this is often my experience, as well. The kinds of practices I advocate for in this podcast (and that I typically practice, to greater or lesser degrees) occasionally lead me to moments of significant impact. More often than not, though, they seem to lead me nowhere at all.
Sometimes (often, even), Holy Saturday seems to lead us nowhere at all… but we can’t see what’s happening underground.
(In my message I heavily reference Justin Earley’s book The Common Rule.)
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In this episode of the podcast I am overjoyed to be able to share my recent conversation with none other than Dr W David O Taylor (hereinafter merely “David”). David is the associate professor of theology & culture at Fuller Seminary, the author of a ton of books… oh, and he was the guy responsible for pulling Bono & Eugene Peterson together for this magical conversation a few years back. Relevant to this conversation, David was (for a significant period of time) a pastor in a church that consisted almost 25% of artists, and he intentionally pastored these artists for their own apprenticeship to Jesus. He also helped them think through how their vocations served the church and the world. A lot of that wisdom and experience ended up in Glimpses of the New Creation (the book we primarily talk about), as well as his most recent book, A Body of Praise. I was particularly grateful for the opportunity to chat with David so close to the launch of the 4th annual Imagine Arts Fest, which I help lead in my own local context. This was a wide-ranging conversation, to be sure, but we kept circling around questions like:
Was (is?) Jesus an artist? Does God care about “aesthetics”?
The conversation may get a little highfalutin’ at times, but (surprisingly) these esoteric questions keep getting grounded back down to earth… earthiness… the ground of being, the ground beneath our feet, and the ground of which we are composed.
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Guys, this was a suuuuuper fun convo for me!!! Nostalgia + philosophizing = a great day. In this convo, Leah Payne and I take a peek at her forthcoming book (God God Rock & Roll To You), geek out a little about her fabulous Weird Religion podcast (before her equally fabulous Rock That Doesn't Roll podcast was even a thing), and reminisce about the bookcase credibility trend which is no more. In actual fact, for the most part, we spend our time asking questions about the rise & fall of a juggernaut industry; Contemporary Christian Music (CCM).
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God is a merciful judge.
God has granted us mercy.
God calls us to grant mercy to others.
A few weeks ago I was blessed to have been able to preach in our church’s 2023 advent series, “The God I Want”. I spoke primarily from Matthew 18:
“For this reason, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his slaves. As he began settling his accounts, a man who owed 10,000 talents was brought to him. Because he was not able to repay it, the lord ordered him to be sold, along with his wife, children, and whatever he possessed, and repayment to be made. Then the slave threw himself to the ground before him, saying, ‘Be patient with me, and I will repay you everything.’ The lord had compassion on that slave and released him, and forgave him the debt. After he went out, that same slave found one of his fellow slaves who owed him 100 silver coins. So he grabbed him by the throat and started to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ Then his fellow slave threw himself down and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will repay you.’ But he refused. Instead, he went out and threw him in prison until he repaid the debt. When his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were very upset and went and told their lord everything that had taken place. Then his lord called the first slave and said to him, ‘Evil slave! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me! Should you not have shown mercy to your fellow slave, just as I showed it to you?’ And in anger his lord turned him over to the prison guards to torture him until he repaid all he owed. So also my heavenly Father will do to you, if each of you does not forgive your brother from your heart.”
(Matthew 18:23-35, NET)
With everything going on in the world feeling (at times) overwhelming, and not knowing how we as individuals can make much of a difference at all, I find solace & purpose in understanding that God calls us to follow after Him by helping to preserve the world and granting mercy freely to those in our lives, regardless of their deserving it. We didn’t (and don’t) “deserve” the Christ Child, but thanks be, He shows up in our mangerly-hearts anyway.
May 2023 finish with His Kingdom being clearer than it has been, and may 2024 bring more of His Heavenly peace on His earth.
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“In the incarnation, God has deemed the female body - the impure, bleeding female body - worthy to handle the most sacred of all things, the very body of God. “
(Amy Peeler, pg 61, Women & the Gender of God)
In this episode (released oh-so-close to Christmas 2023), I am beyond pleased to be able to share with you a conversation with the Rev Dr Amy Peeler. Amy is a professor at Wheaton College, an associate rector at St. Mark’s Episcopal Church, and the author of (the book we primarily discuss) Women and Gender of God.This book is an important exploration of the way our understandings about both God and humanity flow in both directions… and how we ought to be careful about that.
At the beginning of the conversation I mention that Amy just got back from “SBL” (which is the Society for Biblical Literature), and we also drop the term “ETS” (which is the Evangelical Theological Society).
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On this episode of the podcast, we go deeeeeep with Dr Ekaputra Tupamahu about his 2022 book Contesting Languages: Heteroglossia & the Politics of Language in the Early Church. This book is a highly detailed and technical revisitation of the phenomenon typically shorthanded in today’s church as “tongues”, primarily viewed through the lens of 1 Corinthians 14.
Eka was very generous with his time & expertise, and put up no defensive barriers when I probed him pretty deeply about his thesis. I hope you’ll find this an enlightening conversation, even if you disagree with some of the premises!
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Folks, I am over-the-moon excited to be able to share this conversation with Dr Lester Ruth about his most recent book (co-authored with Lim Swee Hong), A History Of Contemporary Praise & Worship. This pair did a shorter history on this topic a few years back (Lovin’ On Jesus), and in this conversation we get not only the broadstrokes of their findings but also a little bit of the behind-the-scenes work (spoiler alert: there was a LOT of it) that led to their very reasoned and very helpful conclusions in this most recent output. We do our best to give you an overview of the two major streams (one commonly known as “Praise & Worship” and the other commonly known as “Contemporary Worship”) that spring up in the earlier parts of the 20th century, and how those streams become raging rivers that eventually converge into a titanic flood that helps rewrite much of modern Christian worship practice in North America… and, indeed, the world.
We also talk about Psalty the Singing Psalm Book, Colby the Singing Computer, and John Piper’s view on sipping coffee in church. Oh, and Lester mentions this one book (Doing Our Own Thing) as being quite important, FYI.
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Ladies & gentlemen, it is with great pleasure (and a touch of trepidation) that I share with you my first podcast conversation with not one but TWO guests at a time! Don’t worry; it’s double the fun!
Sarah Kathleen Johnson and Anneli Loepp Thiessen are the co-authors of a recently-published journal article in Worship called “Contemporary Worship Music As An Ecumenical Liturgical Movement”, which we use as a launchpad to be able to discuss things like the Taizé worshiping community, their work on the Voices Together hymnal, the challenges of being a successful songwriter and a “housewife”, and moooooore.
I learned a lot from this conversation, and I hope you will too!
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The apostle Paul. Other than Jesus, arguably the most famous / notorious figure in the Christian scriptures. His name has authorial responsibility for a huge chunk of the New Testament. Statues of the man litter modern day Italy. There are fields of study dedicated exclusively to trying to understand his thought. In a word, Paul’s influence is massive.
But… Paul himself may not have been massive. Might he have actually been more minuscule?
Could the apostle Paul have been significantly shorter than average? Could the ritual circumcision he’d experienced as a child have been viewed as a disability in his adult context? Most shocking of all, could the man who urged others to follow his example as he followed the example of Christ have been “demonized”?
In this conversation with Dr Isaac Soon, we take an overview look at his forthcoming book A Disabled Apostle. We also chat a bit about his exciting new forays into worship music under the name Yeung. My head was spinning after this one, but… it was a good spin!
Isaac is the Assistant Professor of Religious Studies at Crandall University, if you’re looking to find out how you could get deeper access to his streams of thought.
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In this conversation, Mitchell Eithun and I pick away at the challenging ways that Christian worship has represented people with disabilities, and how we might want to consider doing so in the future. If you’d like to follow Mitchell online, his Facebook page is likely the best spot to do so.
If you, like me, did not know what a carillon was, be sure to check it out!
If you, like me, had never heard the term “presbycostal” before, maybe Eugene Peterson says it best:
“Pentecostalism and Presbyterianism were for me both irreplaceable gifts, polarities that made a continuum, not opposites in tension.” (The Pastor: A Memoir, p. 217)
Here are a handful of books Mitchell recommends, if you’d like to dive in further:
My Body Is Not A Prayer Request by Amy Kenny
The Disabled God by Nancy L. Eiesland
A Healing Homiletic by Kathy Black
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit marcjolicoeur.substack.com
This summer has been pretty typical for me. A lot of camping, a lot of complaining about the heat, a lot of searching for cool water to dip into. A lot of walking the dog. A lot of trying to keep the dog from being overly social. A lot of trying to encourage opportunities for my kids to be IRL social. A lot of wishing I was sleeping just a liiiiiiiittle bit more than I am. A lot of being thankful.
This summer has also been pretty atypical for me. A lot of trying to get my head wrapped around teaching courses at Kingswood University. A lot of me wrestling over the results of Phase Two from our Worship Leader Research work (including spending a few days repping the team in Montreal at the Hymn Society’s 2023 conference). And, in the midst of it all, a lot of me wrestling with one of my favourite biblical texts: The Book Of Jonah.
I was blessed to have been able to speak last week at my local church about Jonah’s story, and how it might connect with us in the here and now. The audio is in the podcast, but if you’d prefer the video, that’s available in multiple places, like MW’s Facebook, YouTube, or Vimeo accounts.
As summer carries on, I hope to be able to get back to podcasting a little more by Fall, but we’ll have to see how / where the sun shines.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit marcjolicoeur.substack.com
“[When considering the presentation of violence in the Old Testament]… I hope that we can nudge the needle further along, not towards resolution, but toward trust in God's ultimate goodness.” - Matthew Lynch, Flood & Fury
This episode of the podcast is with OT scholar and prolific podcaster Matthew J Lynch. Currently teaching at Regent College in Vancouver and releasing content into the world via the evergreen OnScript & Biblical World podcasts, he and I get into a number of topics (not least of which is the tension between being a “legit academic” and a “legit Christian”). Primarily, though, our chat centers around his most recent book, Flood & Fury: Old Testament Violence & The Shalom Of God, which I hiiiiiighly recommend.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit marcjolicoeur.substack.com
Professor Nancy Pearcey (author of the upcoming book The Toxic War on Masculinity: How Christianity Reconciles the Sexes, which you can pre-order NOW) is no stranger to difficult but important subject matter. Her most recently published book (Love Thy Body: Answering Hard Questions about Life and Sexuality) was a great & thought-provoking read, and though I haven’t had the chance to check out her previous work (like The Soul of Science, Saving Leonardo, Finding Truth, and two ECPA Gold Medallion Award Winners:How Now Shall We Live and Total Truth), I’m sure they’d provoke about as much thought. Her books have been translated into 19 languages! A former agnostic, Pearcey has spoken at universities such as Princeton, Stanford, USC, and Dartmouth. She has been quoted in The New Yorker and Newsweek, highlighted as one of the five top women apologists by Christianity Today, and hailed in The Economist as "America's pre-eminent evangelical Protestant female intellectual." Currently she is professor and scholar in residence at Houston Christian University, which is where I joined her to talk about her forthcoming book, why she wrote it, and why you should care about the state of “men” today.
Agree or disagree, I believe you’ll find this conversation worth a listen.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit marcjolicoeur.substack.com
Few people (save The Edge himself) have had as great an impact on a generation of church guitarists as sir Stuart Garrard (aka Stu G). From his epoch-making time with Delirious to his second (or third?) life as a roving guitarist (with the likes of Michael W Smith & One Sonic Society) and a songwriter that has helped pen dozens of influential songs over the last decade, as well as his innovative work with guitar amp modelling… Stu has left a giant imprint. On top of all that, he has spent the better part of the last decade working on a multimedia reimagining of the most famous of Jesus’ teachings (the Beatitudes) via a book, album, and documentary.
Believe it or not, we get a chance to talk about most of that in an hour! Oh, and I even pick his glorious brain briefly about the latest research we’ve been releasing over at Worship Leader Research.
I was beyond grateful for Stu’s time, and for his heart. Hope you’ll enjoy this conversation half as much as I did.
If you (like me) want to make sure you can follow along with the digital unarchiving of Delirious footage, here are the various social media links for that journey:
https://bio.to/delirious_bio
https://www.youtube.com/@delirious_band/featured
https://www.instagram.com/delirious_band/
https://www.facebook.com/delirious
https://twitter.com/Delirious
https://www.tiktok.com/@deliriousofficial
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“… it is not a question of if we should engage in work to benefit those around us. It is a question of how broadly we define the ‘us’ who benefits.”
The above quote from Andrew Whitehead’s forthcoming book American Idolatry (in my opinion) sets the tone for the nuanced conversation we try to engage in over these topics that are often portrayed as anything but nuanced.
What do you think?
BONUS: Below is a little walk through Andrew’s & my own musical-memory lane…
“Americanism” by MxPx:
“The Old West” by Five Iron Frenzy:
Five Iron Frenzy’s latest album:
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In this unuuuuuuusual (for me, anyway) episode, I have a chat with Ambrose Andreano about his recently released book, Angels, Archons, & Aliens. It’s a pretty wild ride, and likely not for the faint of heart, but (for many) it could also be an important conversation starter. You’ll have to be the judge of that.
Ambrose is on Substack and Academia.edu, too.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit marcjolicoeur.substack.com
Something special is a foot…
In this episode of the podcast I catch up with looooong time friend (and all ‘round good guy) Jeff Somers about his brand new book, Avery And The Special Shoe. It’s a very specific story he wrote for his daughter, which is why it has universal appeal. We talk about the challenges his daughter faces, we talk about writing, and we talk about publishing (oh, and about Meaghan Smith’s beautiful illustrations). If you’d like to pre-order a copy of the book, swing by averyandthespecialshoe.com today!
On the back end of the convo, I unload on / pick the brain of Jeff regarding the first public release from the Worship Leader Research team I’m a part of. It’s been… a pretty wild ride so far. If you’d like to check out the article in question, below are a few links to get you situated:
https://worshipleaderresearch.com/100-of-the-top-25-worship-songs-are-associated-with-just-a-handful-of-megachurches/
https://religionnews.com/2023/04/11/theres-a-reason-every-hit-worship-song-sounds-the-same/
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“In every aspect of the religious life, American faith has met American culture - and American culture has triumphed.” – Alan Wolfe
The above quote is from page 4 of Dr Sam Reimer’s fascinating new book, Caught In The Current. The book is his synthesis of a compilation of both quantitative data and qualitative surveys that he personally undertook, and it reveals a lot about how so-called “evangelicals” who live in Canada and the UK see themselves, the world around them, and the ideal and actual relationships between the two. In this conversation we barely scratch the surface, and so if you’re looking for more, I’d highly encourage you to pick up the book and dig in!
We fly through the idea of Bebbington’s Quadrilateral as a way of helping to define what exactly an “evangelical” is, but if you’d like to brush up some more on that, this is a helpful place to start… that, or perhaps this conversation I had last year with Sam’s co-worker and world-renowned authority on the topic, Dr John Stackhouse.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit marcjolicoeur.substack.com
“I think Christian nationalism started in the Garden of Gethsemane when Jesus was reaching for the Cross, and Peter, who loves Jesus, thought he should protect him with a sword.” – Caleb Campbell, Disarming Leviathan
In this episode of the podcast I chat with pastor and doctoral student Caleb Campbell about his new project to engage in meaningful but intentionally transformative dialogue with those who are self-described “American Christian Nationalists”. The ministry is called “Disarming Leviathan”, and it’s unlike anything I’ve yet to come across. Whether or not the specific topics discussed here have much intersection with your life, the principles of listening and empathy outlined are helpful for all of us; better listeners make better people.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit marcjolicoeur.substack.com
Faith harms and heals. It pulls us apart and binds us together. It builds cathedrals and burns down cities. It gives life and brings death. Asking if religion is good is like asking if music is good. Or food. Or politics. Or baseball or books or art or science or any other human endeavor. Religion is human. And it matters. (Reorganized Religion, pg 39)
Bob Smietana has covered a LOT of “bad news” stories when it comes to organized religion in the US. But he still has hope for the institution. So much so that he wrote an excellent and timely book about it, and was willing to sit down and chat with me about it. If you have any sort of vested interest in the “church” (whether in seeing it succeed OR watching it burn), then I think you’ll find this conversation interesting.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit marcjolicoeur.substack.com
“A mighty zeal for truth, for great purity, and other good purposes, is displayed; and it is observable, that this zeal generally rises in proportion as the peculiar tenets of the innovators, deviate from scripture and common sense; zeal being the substitute to make up the deficiency.”
When was this sick burn tossed around? Last week? Last year? Nay, 230 years ago, from a little pulpit in Halifax, Nova Scotia. The preacher (Charles Inglis) was concerned about “fanatical” “enthusiasts”, people who proclaimed a passionate religion but were disorderly and seemed bent on upending the order around them.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
On this episode of the podcast, I catch up with Dr Keith Grant about his new book, Enthusiasms and Loyalties: The Public History of Private Feelings in the Enlightenment Atlantic. We talk a little about the past, a little about the present, and… leave the future for another day. I am fascinated by the parallels between what are essentially different worlds. The past truly is a foreign country, but human nature truly is a near-constant.
To keep up with Keith online, feel free to track him down at his “day job”, at Crandall University.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit marcjolicoeur.substack.com
In this episode I’m pleased as punch to be able to catch up with my fellow-follicly-feable friend Cody Matchett! Cody is a husband, dad, pastor, scholar, and he’s just about to release a co-written book with the prolific Scot McKnight entitled Revelation For The Rest Of Us. We catch up a little, but then we dive deep into how and how NOT to read this long-contested and deeply important book of the New Testament. If you enjoy this conversation, keep your eyes peeled for more from both Cody & Scot in the time ahead.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit marcjolicoeur.substack.com
I have been looking forward to this conversation with Dr Alan Streett for a looooong time now. Streett’s book on baptism (Caesar And The Sacrament) almost literally blew my mind while reading it. So much so that I ordered his prequel (Subversive Meals) and the newly-released followup (Songs Of Resistance) as soon as I could. In this conversation, we get a little window into Streett’s own background, as well as wrestle a little with some of the tensions that his masterful work presents.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit marcjolicoeur.substack.com
In this episode of the podcast, my friend (and first-time SECOND-TIME podcast partner) Jeremy MacDonald asks me questions about the message I shared last weekend at my local church. The message was about (in essence) the relative value of “religion” when it comes to people’s desires & ability to connect with the divine. You can hear the message here, if you’d like to catch up in advance or after the fact. Would loooooove to hear from you about the ways you see this differently, since (as mentioned in the podcast) this is a drum-beat of mine, and I’d hate to be blinded by my passion.
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Y’all, I had pretty much no idea what I was walking into when I signed up to chat with the newly doctored Merrill Greene, but I AM SO GLAD I DID.
This conversation was wide-ranging, but everywhere we roved, I was the better for it. Not only do we get into some of the nitty-gritty on his Dead Sea Scrolls research, we also tie some observations into Christian practice & experience, with some pastoral implications for how we might want to “be” in the world today.
I hope you’ll find this conversation enlightening, and as always, would love to hear any thoughts or questions you might have.
Merrill’s “The Weirdness Of God” book is available here, and his dissertation (which is the main thing we talked about) is available here. Oh, and as promised, here is an open-source (i.e. “potentially problematic”) link as a starting place on the idea of Merkabah Mysticism.
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You guys, part of the reason I started a podcast was because I would listen to conversations other people were having (with people I agreed with AND disagreed with) and I would find myself yelling questions back… but to no avail. Now, I am blessed with the opportunity to have and to host such conversations, with people I agree with AND disagree with. Today is one such conversation.
Nathan Finochio does a whole lotta things (bonus points if you can track down the old song of his we passingly reference at the top of the chat). In the first half of this conversation we mostly dig into his involvement with Theos U, billed as the “Netflix of Theology”. In the backhalf (starting around the 34-minute-mark), we dip into his understanding of (and adoption of) the controversial term “Christian nationalist”. Below are some links to some of the things we mention in the conversation.
As I say clearly in the conversation, I do not necessarily hold to Nathan’s view of things, but nor am I threatened by listening to him talk about them. We can neither agree NOR disagree with things we do not understand. If you have any honest / charitable questions or feedback based upon this conversation, would love to hear it.
Alexander Fairchild
The Royal Royal
Theos U
Paul D Miller
G K Chesterton
Yoram Hazony
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Folks, they say you learn something new every day, and I gotta tell ya… I’m not sure that’s true. But TODAY I DEFINITELY DID! I am so pleased to be able to share this conversation with my friend, (the newly doctored) Dan Cooper. Dan’s thesis (“Where Is The Place Of Darkness? A Metaphor Analysis Of Darkness In The Old Testament”) is a wild ride which takes us to unexpected places and, in the end, both clarifies and complicates my own understanding of “darkness” in the scripture. How much can we know of God? How much should we hope to? Is darkness a “thing”, or just the absence of a “thing”? Let’s find out.
Oh, and the book that Dan mentioned completely blew his mind? Metaphors We Live By, by Lakoff & Johnson.
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In this episode of the podcast, I sit down with Dr Matt Friedman of Kingswood University. Matt is an author, a lecturer on intercultural studies, and a messianic Jew. We talk about how he got to where he is, what these shared identities mean for him, and what they might mean for us. This conversation was eye-opening for me, particularly when we spoke about his interpretation of Leviticus chapters 17 & 18. At a time when the concept & value of reconciliation is front & centre, considering the ways that Jews & Christians have succeeded & failed on that front was interesting & helpful for me.
Here’s a link to the Yachad Beyeshua organization referenced.
And here are links to both of Matt’s books he referenced:
Union With God In Christ: Early Christian and Wesleyan Spirituality as an Approach to Islamic Mysticism
The Present and Future of Evangelical Mission: Academy, Agency, Assembly, and Agora Perspectives from Canada
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This episode of the podcast is more monologue than dialogue, though I am in dialogue with David Desteno (in a sense). For full notes and links and essentially the text of what you hear here, check out this link:David Desteno's "How God Works" // Religioprospecting, considering the source, and minding the hack
Tell me: Do you see any downside to religioprospecting, or am I being an overly reactionary weirdo? (those aren’t necessarily the only two options…)
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Y’all, it’s been a minute, but after much summer adventuring I’m (mostly) baaaaack in the saddle for September. One of the marvellous weeks I was able to spend this summer was at our local church district’s campground, Beulah Camp, and during that week I was blessed to have been preached at by a number of folks, including this fellow follically-challenge brother, Steve Deneff:
Steve preached about a half-dozen times over the days he was with us, and I was blown away by not only his content, but his VOICE. The waaaay he communicated the things he communicated… I am still reeling from those messages. In fact, below, you’ll find links to a few of the services that were most impactful for me.
I ran into Steve one evening after one of the services and asked if he’d be willing to connect and chat on the podcast sometime, and this (of course) is that time. I think you’ll find what he has to say refreshing & challenging, true to form for his particular voice.
Typically I’d direct you to a guest’s online presence if you want to follow them. The only place I even found him online was Twitter, where he hasn’t posted in over a year. However, if after this podcast you’re aching for more regular doses of this man’s voice, College Wesleyan’s YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/c/CollegeWesleyanChurch) might be your best bet.
In this conversation, Steve references Otto Scharmer’s on “The Four Levels of Listening”, if you’d like to follow up and check into it more: https://vimeo.com/199593914
Also, as promised, below are a few videos (full services, so you may need to skip ahead to find the teaching) from Steve’s time at Beulah Camp this past summer:
The Church Is Losing Its Voice
The Scaffolding & The Cathedral
Centred-Set v Bounded-Set
For a helpful & thought-provoking engagement with the concept of “Centred-Set v Bounded-Set” thinking, I would recommend: https://veritas.community/veritas-community/2013/03/13/bounded-set-vs-centered-set-thinking
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In this episode of the podcast, I am pleased to share a recent conversation I had with longtime friend (and first-time podcast partner) AJ Thomas. AJ is the Lead Pastor of Deep Water Church in the Halifax area, and is deeply committed to his own faith tradition AS WELL AS not allowing his own faith tradition to alienate him from others. We share this in common. As such, this conversation centres mainly on the conundrums that come with this worldview.
We talk about the so-called “New Evangelization”, why WWII “foxhole” metaphors are en vogue right now, the hip hop mantra of “real” recognizing “real”, and how the best kinds of unity aren’t forced but are a byproduct of mission. I learned a lot.
What I do NOT share with AJ is his love for woodworking. This hobby of his explains the picture below (not a paranoia about pathogens):
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You guys, I am so stoked to be able to share this conversation with Dr Dru Johnson, a man of many talents, a pied past, and a prolific output. Dru and I talk about his origin story, what it means to think “Hebraically” (and why he’s passionate about it), as well as the recently released Biblical World of Gender book.
Below are just some of the links we reference in the course of the show:
Dru’s Official Website
Kings College
Center for Hebraic Thought
Biblical Mind Podcast
OnScript Podcast
“Human Rites” book
“Biblical Philosophy” book
“Biblical World Of Gender” book
Langham Partnership
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Folks! This conversation with Dr Carmen Joy Imes is an absolute game-changer. If you have ever wondered about what actually constitutes a “human identity”, or what the so-called “image of God” language (from which virtually all of our modern human rights language derives) means, then this is the chat for you. Dr Imes unsettles so many preconceptions about gender, race, God, and the Bible, and she does it with a loving smile and in an orthodox way. Below are a heavy-handful of links from the various things we talk about in this podcast. Oh, and if you’d prefer to see our smiling faces whilst we discourse, this conversation is also available on my YouTube page.
Exploring Personhood: Centre for Faith & Culture (Southeastern Seminary):
Print Version of the above (at Fathom Magaizine):
https://www.fathommag.com/stories/the-rise-and-fall-of-theimago-dei
Carmen’s reflections on her time at Southeastern Seminary:
https://carmenjoyimes.blogspot.com/2022/02/becoming-human-my-visit-to-sbc-seminary.html
“Bearing God’s Name: Why Sinai Still Matters”:
https://www.amazon.ca/Bearing-Gods-Name-Carmen-Imes/dp/0830852697
Carmen on “Youth Ministry Team Podcast” with Marc & Jeremy MacDonald:
https://youthworker.community/ep106/
Sandra Richter, “Stewards Of Eden”, on OnScript Podcast:
https://onscript.study/podcast/sandra-richter-stewards-of-eden/
SBC’s 2022 Annual Meeting:
https://sbcannualmeeting.net/
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In this episode of the podcast it is my privilege to share a chat I recently had with a friend and co-leader, Love Egbon. Love is a relatively-new-Canadian who was born in Nigeria. She is a dynamic individual and a DYNAMITE singer, and (like so many of our black & brown brothers & sisters) she has observed racism in her life & surroundings. This chat is mostly just an opportunity for her to share some of her story and some of her heart for our shared culture, both inside & outside the church, and I found it challenging & encouraging. It is my hope that you will, as well.
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In this episode, we sit down for a chat with the ever-pleasant & effervescent David Drury. David is the former Chief of Staff for The Wesleyan Church, the current purveyor of wisdom & strategy over at the DruGroup, and the future impactor of Global Partners’ “Global Marketplace Multipliers” initiative. We recorded this convo roughly 24 hours after the adjournment of TWC’s 14th General Conference, so you’re gonna hear some “shop talk” in here, to be sure, but David found a great way of moving from the particular to the general in a way that (I believe) adds clarity to why this conversation matters for all of us, regardless of our interest in religious politics.
The article of David’s I’d love to particularly draw your attention to is this one: What Jesus Left Behind
For more background on the actual policy discussed here, please feel free to cross-reference with Episode Twenty-Five // Conversation with Dr JoAnne Lyon
Below is a graphic capture of the online poll I mentioned at the outset of this podcast recording.
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In this episode of the Jolly Thoughts podcast I have the pleasure of chatting with financial advisor, failed lobsterman, and successful marathoner “Pete” Benson. We talk about his early life on Grand Manan Island, his propensity towards spiritual-entrepreneurship, and what he believes successful physical & financial training share in common (spoiler alert: it’s A GOAL).
Here’s the Lobster War Documentary I poorly reference:
https://lobsterwar.com/
And here’s a link to the Navy Seal mind-ninja Pete referenced:
https://davidgoggins.com/
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Last weekend, I did something that was unthinkable (and uninteresting) to my younger self: I ran a marathon. In this episode of the podcast, I take a few minutes to unpack some of my reflections on the experience. For a written version, please check out either my website or my Substack page. Oh, and if you’ve been tracking along with me in this journey at all, it’d be so great to hear from you! Please, leave a comment or a question (or, heck, even a complaint would do at this point).
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My friend and co-labourer Austin White was kind enough to take a few of his last British minutes to chat with me about his experience at Alpha’s 2022 Leadership Conference and to reflect upon about some of his initial takeaways. As expected, he’s articulate and insightful, and I learned something myself!
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In less than a month, The Wesleyan Church will be holding their 14th General Conference in St Louis, Missouri (live-streamed across the globe, for anyone interested), and for some of you reading these words, this is a big deal. For others, you literally couldn’t care less. I empathize with both reactions, even though I’m firmly in the former camp, and my hope is that if you make it through this conversation with Dr JoAnne Lyon, you might see why the themes that will be present at this nexus of time & space might matter to you.
Dr Lyon is a lot of things to a lot of people, but the primary reason she took the time to chat with me on this podcast was because she was recently the elected North American leader of The Wesleyan Church. So… we talk about her time there, and how she reads the current situation. But we also talk about her early life, what you might describe as a sort of “conversion” in her early 20s, her work in international development & relief, her passion for ecumenism, and… oh, I think we even mention the Pope’s recent groundbreaking apology to Canada’s First Nations population.
I mention near the outset that I do have a document that I worked on after reading through the “memorials” for the upcoming TWC GenCon, and though I do not intend to post them on the net baldly, if you’re interested in the conversation, please do feel free to reach out.
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On this episode of the podcast I finally land a solid excuse to chat with friend and thought-wizard Jeremy MacDonald. Since he has lots of history working directly with students and now pours out his life working with people who themselves work with students, his perspective on rites of passage for young people and how they learn to “adult” in our current contexts is worth mining. We open things off by taking a cursory look at the third chapter of David Desteno’s book (How God Works), then riff from there. We talk about bullet ants, bar mitzvahs, and we even have a surprise reveal near the end of the conversation from Jeremy about his future plans (unbeknownst to his wife & kids), so stay tuned!
Some links for things mentioned (and unmentioned):
Christian Service Brigade: https://christianservicebrigade.ca/
Champion Tribes: https://www.championtribes.com
Youth Worker Community: https://youthworker.community/
How God Works Podcast: https://beta.prx.org/stories/401370
Renegotiating Faith Report: https://p2c.com/renegotiating-faith/
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Will Smith thought what Chris Rock was saying was a joke until he saw Jada’s response. New info caused him to reevaluate… which caused him to slap a man across the face.
In this episode of the podcast, I talk about the concept often known as the hermeneutic circle, and how it’s not ONLY important for Bible scholars and philosophers, but also for anyone who’s got road rage or uncouth uncles.
I reference this interview with Dr Steve Lennox partway through, and thus figured I should link it, since it’s golden.
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You guys, I am so jazzed this week to present what has turned out to be the first part of a (at least) two-parter with Dr Brannon Hancock from Wesley Seminary. I first stumbled across Brannon’s work via this talk which he gave for Wesley Seminary’s webinar series, a presentation that instantaneously had me enthralled. The types of questions we setup in this conversation centre around the technologies we are comfortable employing, those we are not comfortable employing, and whether or not we can rightly see/say that God is the “animating force” behind such technologies.
In the podcast, I open by referencing this news article from earlier on in the week, where Russian president Vladimir Putin used a Bible verse to describe the “liberating activity” of Russian troops in Ukraine:
https://theweek.com/russia/1011510/putin-quotes-jesus-to-justify-invasion-of-ukraine
This type of ambiguity in how we see God at work in the world is my driving passion in this conversation, and why I was glad to be able to begin this wrestling (to be further wrestled) with Brannon today.
For anyone who hasn’t noticed that I’ve been working through St Teresa’s Interior Castle via my blog all week long, here’s a bonus quote from that fantastically evocative mystical work which speaks to the heart of this human challenge:
“…there is no ground here either for approval or for condemnation. We must base our judgments on the virtues. The saintliest will be she who serves our Lord with the greatest mortification and humility and purity of conscience. Little, however, can be known with any certainty about this on earth, nor until the true Judge gives each his deserts.”
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“The reader must have patience with me, as I have with myself when writing about things of which I know nothing; for really I sometimes take up my paper, like a perfect fool, with no idea of what to say or how to begin.” (Mansion I, Chapter II)
For the last number of years, I have tended to drift off to sleep at night by reading a little from a book. Depending upon how tired I am, the amount of text I get through before my eyes slam shut is anywhere from shockingly little to laughably little. As such, it took me a tremendous amount of time to work through St Teresa of Avila’s classic little 16th century book Interior Castle, but I’m none the poorer for it, since it is the kind of book that benefits one from slow (if not drowsy) readings & rereadings. I will share here some brief thoughts on the book, since I find it generally illuminating, particularly during this season of Lent. To begin, a little context:
I will not spend much time describing here who St Teresa was (that’s what the internet is for), but will say simply that she was a 16th century Spanish nun who was so influential as a writer and teacher that she ended up becoming the very first woman recognized as a “Doctor of the Church” by the Vatican in 1970. She wrote several works, but arguably Interior Castle is her most famous [note – I’m using page numbers at some points, and so it may be helpful to note that I am using the Dover Thrift Edition of the text, which is ridiculously inexpensive]. In a nutshell, the book is framed as St Teresa herself (not a fictional character) describing to her readers the implications of her own understanding of a vision she is said to have had some years earlier. In this vision, she is shown “a most beautiful crystal globe, made in the shape of a castle, and containing seven mansions, in the seventh and innermost of which was the King of Glory, in the greatest splendour, illumining and beautifying them all” (pg 2). She comes to understand the process of spiritual growth and development as a process of moving through these mansions, getting closer & closer to the centre, where Christ is. This process is varied (as described in the book), but it consists largely of prayer & contemplation. Attaining to the centre she calls the “Prayer of Union” (pg 158), since this is the place where the person and Christ become one, analogous to a marriage (imagery which, incidentally, is quite biblical). In terms of context, though, there are a couple points that I have not yet made. One is that the original audience of this book is by no means the general populace but Teresa’s fellow nuns (which will explain the numerous vocative references to “my sisters” throughout, even if it does not so much explain her preference for male pronouns when describing the average believer). The other is that this Christ-centred castle is not up in heaven somewhere or out there in the wild somewhere, but (as the title suggests) inside the human heart. In fact, as part of her initial vision, after beholding the radiant beauty of the castle, “the crystal globe was plunged into darkness, became as black as coal and emitted an insufferable odour, and the venomous creatures outside the palace boundaries were permitted to enter the castle.” This process of plunging the castle into the darkened human heart did not drive out the King of Glory, but merely made Him the more difficult to perceive and experience.
And so, Interior Castle (though unique) tends to fall into genres of not only spirituality and devotional but also mysticism. In fact, a surprising note that many have made is that the more “mystical” a Christian writer gets (in other words, the more they deal with issues of / question of “transcendence”) the more their writings end up being strikingly similar to mystical writings from other religions or even by agnostic/atheists. I am still trying to wrap my head around that. There were a number of times throughout this book (pages 113 & 119, just as a couple of examples) where I noted the description of the experiences to have been remarkably similar to descriptions of psychedelic-induced “trips”. Quite clearly, though, Teresa is by no means endorsing or even describing a reality wherein someone would have been able to acquire a hallucinogen. These events happened during what we would typically describe as “prayer & fasting” (albeit, perhaps, more intense and/or structured bouts of it than the average believer is familiar with today), and these events were not, indeed are not that uncommon. Recently, I have heard a few folks describe the more traditional paths outlined by Teresa as “right hand paths”, while dubbing the more substance-based shortcut routes “left-hand paths”.
More could definitely be said about the potential Christians viability of these various paths, but much of that will have to wait for another day. The one thing I would like to bring out a little further, though, is the idea that whatever positive things one might feel on the right hand path must be “good”, whereas whatever positive things one might feel on the left hand path must be “bad”. Teresa herself has little to say about the latter, but a lot to say about the former. Throughout the edition of the book we’re dealing with, the translators made frequent use of the word “favour” to describe something desirable offered by God to the person seeking Him in prayer. This is admittedly ambiguous and is never fully fleshed out, but from the context I feel it safe to try and define it basically as “good feelings”. That could range from a tangible sense of peace & security to an overwhelming state of rapture (both being examples implied in the book), but it need not be limited to that range. Essentially, I believe Teresa understands these favours to be on-earth, real-time rewards from God to His follower for following the path of spiritual development set out before them; motivation to keep moving through the mansions. I bring this up, though, because Teresa also understands that, at times, God will withhold such favours from people even if they are on the right path. More complicating still, Teresa believes that people can experience overwhelmingly positive feelings which originate not from the God housed at the centre of the castle, but from the enemy seeking to confuse and misdirect us away from that centre, that is “the devil, who gives peace to the soul in order later to wage a far severer war upon it” (pg 73).
If we can’t trust our feelings even when we’re so committedly following after God that we’ve placed ourselves in holy orders (remember, these are NUNS), then what can we trust?!?! “I seem to hear you asking whatever you are to do, as I'm telling you there is danger in everything”, as Teresa herself writes on page 117… and rightfully so. As you work your way through the book, you begin to see the subtle underside of so much spiritual development & devotion. Appearances vs realities. Fleshly pride vs spiritual pride. Angels of darkness masquerading as angels of light. It’s all a bit… unnerving. This is why Teresa takes the time to highlight the importance of walking this path with other people, not merely as companions (which is important) but as guides (which is equally important):
It is a great advantage for us to be able to consult someone who knows us, so that we may learn to know ourselves. And it is a great encouragement to see that things which we thought impossible are possible to others… (pg 45)
…if you know such a person, it is best to consult one both spiritual and learned. (pg 130)
I’m realizing now that if I keep on typing away in paragraph form here I’ll end up with a book before we’re through, and I’m sure neither you nor I have the time for that today. My long-term plan is to look for someone who is more familiar with Teresa’s work than I am and try to line up a conversation with them, but my short-term plan is to actually do a series of posts this coming week (a/v posts on FB, Instagram & TikTok, and text posts on Twitter/blog) working through various aspects of Interior Castle. So, if you have any leads, any thoughts, or any questions, let me know!
I’ll close this post with these wise & humble words from Teresa, words which I intend to internalize so that I can come to externalize them:
If you find anything good in this book which helps you to learn to know him better, you can be quite sure that it is His Majesty Who has said it, and if you find anything bad, that it has been said by me. (pg 168)
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In this episode of the podcast, we revisit a sermon I preached not that long ago about the Wisdom of Job (as part of Moncton Wesleyan’s “Finding Wisdom” series). Oh, and I chat about some of the reading I’ve done this week on holiday.
First up was Jon Hurd’s Jesus Farted (and Other Uncomfortable Thoughts), which I was pleasantly surprised by.
What I was more so surprisingly surprised by was my reading of The Epistle Of Barnabas, from this edition. If you have any familiarity with this text, I would love to hear your thoughts. I was… jarred, a little, by some of it, yet I found it quite enlightening.
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FIRST THINGS FIRST: Is my son right? Did God “create” his (current) favourite video game platform, Roblox? He’s got an argument to try and prove it (which I outline near the top of this pod), but… I’m not convinced. You? Comment & let me know!
Beyond that philosophical query, in this episode we also talk a little about Aleksander Solzhenitsyn’s “Gulag Archipelago”, specifically this quote:
“…let the reader who expects this book to be a political expose slam its covers shut right now. If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? During the life of any heart this line keeps changing place; sometimes it is squeezed one way by exuberant evil and sometimes it shifts to allow enough space for good to flourish. One and the same human being is, at various ages, and under various circumstances, a totally different human being. At times he's close to being a devil, at times to sainthood. But his name doesn't change, and to that name we ascribe the whole lot, good and evil.”
In a season where the darkness of the human heart is abundantly clear, what are we to do with our need to balance justice & mercy? This lent, this seems like an excellent question to explore more.
Speaking of lent, the other thing we do in this pod is explore the celebration of Ash Wednesday with an audio version of this video.
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Almost two weeks ago, I was fortunate to have had a conversation with interdisciplinary scholar (and hyper-specialist in Canadian evangelicalism) Dr John Stackhouse. He and I literally live down the road from each other, yet haven’t really chatted before this, and so it was a great opportunity to ask him some questions and get to hear part of his story. We talk about the university where he currently teaches, we talk about what he considers “liberal Christianity” to actually be, he tries to assess whether or not I’m an “evangelical Christian”... a good time was had by all!
At the end of the interview, I mentioned that I did not know what the world would be like in two weeks. I couldn’t have known at that time how true that might be. Even though many of our hearts and minds are heavy with what is going on in Ukraine, we continue to move forward with what we know and what we can explore, which in this episode is namely the hope of the gospel (Christianity’s good news) for the broader world.
In this interview we reference this post of Stackhouse’s on “Civil Disobedience for Christians” (which was actually the hot button issue of two weeks ago), and we talk a little about his most recent book, Can I Believe?.
What did not emerge until just after our conversation was a little back-n-forth between Stackhouse and Christianity Today’s news editor (and another person I recently chatted with), Daniel Silliman about his own attempt at defining evangelicalism. Disagreements can seem spicy, but conversation (whether that’s over coffee or a debate podium) tend to be the only way that ideas move forward.
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Howdy folks! This episode is a bit of an unusual one, in that it’s a conglomeration of two previously recorded conversations (this one and this one ) that were recorded as part of an arts fest that we run hubbed out of our local church we’re calling “Imagine ‘22”. This year’s rendition will go “live” on Saturday, Feb 19th, at 7pm AST (and will remain online thereafter), so you should definitely go check it out. These two conversations (featuring my friends Katie Doiron, Jason Muir, Leanne Prescott, and Jeff Somers) are all about… well, art! Oh, and money. We talk about money, too. So the esoteric and the taboo. How could you not love that?!?!
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On this episode of the podcast I catch up with everyone’s friend, the magnanimous Paul Baloche! Paul has written worship songs that can now rightly be called “classics”, and yet is also still active in the scene. Not only is he a writer and a leader, though, he is also a pastor, and that shepherd’s heart is on full display in this conversation. We have a wide-ranging conversation about specific aspects of worship leadership (key words will be “multitracks” and “high energy videos”), but we also talk a lot about “the Church”, how She is being variously appreciated and maligned. Paul’s mic leaves a little to be desired here, but his heart & his words do not.
Oh, and if anyone’s interested in checking out that Scott Alexander article I mention, click away.
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On this episode I record an “official” chat with my longtime unofficial conversation partner, Dennis Prescott. It would not take much Googling to find out who this man is, but an excellent place to start looking for him is probably Instagram (even though he’s got a handy presence on most socials). He’s a creative in the food space, yet he’s also worked on several humanitarian fronts, and he and I grew up together playing music and trying to (mostly) avoid mischief.
The kernel of thought that sparked this conversation was a particular episode of the Lord Of Spirits podcast which deals in depth with the nature of ancient religious sacrifices, and how they were “always food” (as at least the hosts of said podcast posit). A quote from that episode says:
“Once you know that you can have a meal with your God and be in communion with your God, then that takes what it means to be a religious person, or a Christian in particular, completely out of the realm of ‘this is what I think and feel and believe’—although those are important things… it’s much more primal and visceral—no pun intended. It gets you down in the stomach, quite frankly.”
So, Dennis and I talk about the nature of food, what it does, why it does it, and so on & so forth. Oh, and there’s a YouTube version of this chat, as well, if that happens to be your preferred medium.
As always, would love to hear your feedback & pushback on these things, so please drop me a line… oh, and feel free to spread the word to other people you think might enjoy such conversations.
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In this episode of the Jolly Thoughts podcast I’m joined by University president / Biblical scholar / all-around good-guy Dr Steve Lennox. We talk about “the abyss” of scripture, the double-edgedness of the Reformation(s), when one becomes educated “enough”, and… well, a lot of other things that I found quite interesting, and perhaps you will too!
Thank you for engaging with this conversation! This post is public, so if you’re enjoying it, feel free to share it. Oh, and leave a comment/question, if you dare.
The primary book that sparked off the conversation was the popularized & revised version of his dissertation work, “A Holiness Hermeneutic”.
If you’d like to track along with Dr Lennox, you can find him on Twitter at @sjlennoxku or really anywhere where Kingswood University is found.
Oh, and in advance of this conversation going online I posted an article over at my Tumblr blog with a TON of quotes from the book, if you’re interested.
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Welcome to Episode Thirteen of the Jolly Thoughts podcast! On this episode we chat with worship leader / songwriter / neuroscience-enthusiast Elias Dummer about anglocostalism, the chemical effects of group singing, the latin etymology of the word “performance”, and… a heavy handful of other things.
If the main kernel of this conversation interests you, I’d encourage you to check out some of Elias’ other work on the topic, like this YouTube video, for example: “Worship” v “Performance”👇
You can also check out loads of music from Elias wherever you source music, but would especially suggest you take a moment to enjoy and hype-up “Kyrie Eleison”, his newest release, featuring Citizens.
Oh, and I should probably apologize for the terribleness of my audio in this interview, but… the good news is that Elias sounds great, and he’s the draw!
For a video version of our conversation, see below.
To find Eli on socials…
Eli FB // https://www.facebook.com/eliasdummermusic
Eli Twitter // https://twitter.com/eliasdummer
Eli Instagram // https://www.instagram.com/eliasdummer/
Eli TikTok // https://www.tiktok.com/@eliasdummer
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On today’s episode, I read excerpts from an article I just republished about the similarities & distinctions between a church and The Church, and I talk about why that might matter now as much as ever, if not even slightly-more-than at some times in our past.
If you’re tracking along with this conversation at all, I would really value hearing from you: In what ways does the definition of a church discussed in this pod (“…a church is a gathering of two or more people in the name of Jesus…”) resonate with or rattle you?
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As we move into 2022, I muse on the idea of what you’d want to distract yourself with on your deathbed (and whether or not it should be the morally questionable antics of Jerry & his gang), I read an article I just typed out, and I give you a micro-heads-up for what’s comin’ down the pipe… all in FIFTEEN MINUTES!!!
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Merriest of Christmases to you!!! On today’s episode I open up a little about why this Christmas is extra-bitter-sweet, I provide some background as to why “O Holy Night” is a little extra-saucy as far as Christmas songs go, and I play another one of the ol’ Christmas classics I’ve been able to retackle over the years.
Link to the video version of this “Songs We Pray” —
Link to The Silent’s “O Come O Come Emmanuel” —
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Greetings my friends! On this week’s episode I wax ineloquently on the rhetorical effectiveness of sharing inflammatory memes online. Below, you will see the meme I reference in the pod. Also, here’s the link to Schenck’s exhaustive (not exhausting) look at logical fallacies, here are the links to the Outpost Theology pod and the Conversation On Contemporary Worship pod I reference, and since MidiVert barely has an online presence, I’ll also link over to the man/myth/legend that is Jeff Somers.
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Y’all, we got a wide-ranging and exciting conversation on this episode with none other than Marc Martel, a fellow French-speaking Canadian with a “c” where the “k” so often goes. Marc spent a long time as the co-frontman for the band Downhere, and now he travels the world wowing audiences with the Ultimate Queen Celebration. He’s got at least one video on YouTube with like 50 million hits… oh, and when it comes to Christmas music, dude’s recorded and toured with juggernauts like Amy Grant & Michael W Smith, so… he’s (as you’ll hear in this conversation) handily “world class”. That said, we’re also friends who haven’t chatted in a while, so we get caught up and talk about the church, the world, and whether or not live music can/should be categorized as “essential service”. Hope you enjoy!
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This week, I had the opportunity to connect with author, podcaster, and esteemed professor over at Oklahoma Wesleyan University, sir Josh McNall. My partner in crime (Mike Tapper) and I were being interviewed for his excellent podcast , and so I seized the chance to turn the tables and ask him a few questions about his most recent book, Perhaps, one of the few books I’ve ever “pre-ordered”... which, I suppose, might out me as a bit of a fan. But hey, this book in particular is definitely worth being a fan of, I’d submit. The byline (“Reclaiming the space between Doubt & Dogmatism”) is an excellent endorsement for why we all ought to be engaging with this topic.
So, on the podcast this week, you’ll hear a section of the conversation where the two of us riff back and forth a little, beginning with how Josh helps clarify my own understanding of this “middle space” of perhapsing. Oh, and I go off at the end on a tirade about tents, temples, and the potential value of nomadery.
For a little more on my thoughts about McNall’s book, visit www.marcjolicoeur.com
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Happy American Thanksgiving! Hey, what better way to celebrate than by assessing just how much we can trust our educational institutions??? In today’s episode, I converse with my friend and mentor, Dr Ken Schenck, about a few things, but primarily about Tom Nichols’ book “The Death Of Expertise”… and Ken does NOT mince many words ‘bout it.
I found this book to be quite generative, such that I did a little writeup and video about it a few months back, as well (which you can check out here, if ya’d like).
Oh, and here’s a link to one of the blogs Ken mentioned in this episode that he’s been writing over at Campus Edu: https://www.campusedu.com/why-campus-enriched-curriculum
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Guys, episode five (?) features a ranging conversation with fellow Maritimer, Tanya Nace, about her experience and research into the state of senior female leadership in our home denomination, The Wesleyan Church… and it’s a doozy. Hope you find it enlightening, challenging, and encouraging. In it, I reference this article I wrote about Beth Allison Barr’s “The Making Of Biblical Womanhood”, if you’d like to dig in further.
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In this episode of the podcast I reflect a little on why I think Dr Aaron Perry’s new book (Kairos Care) is important for all of us, then I chat with him briefly about it, and close off by reading an article I wrote a few weeks back about the fragility of retrojectivity. Fun!
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This week’s episode is an interview with Dr Steve Dunmire, who is a teaching pastor at (what is, at the time of publication called) Watermark Wesleyan Church in Hamburg NY, and has done adjunct professor work in several avenues, including Houghton College (which is where we met). He’s a father of 4, a husband of 1 (Tammy)... and a Eugene Peterson super-fan, thus today’s conversation. He’s on Twitter @DrSteveDunmire and other places, so if you want to follow his wit & wisdom, have at it. He happens to also be an aficionado of Buffalo sports, both on the ice and the gridiron, and gives wonderfully descriptive updates on the Fall foliage in Western NY. So many reasons to tune in!
The launching point for today’s conversation is Peterson’s 2011 memoir “The Pastor”. Some more of my reflections on the book are available online at my blog, www.marcjolicoeur.com, and… other places, as well.
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Here’s a 2nd kick at the podcast can, looking at an ooooooldie but a strangie, “The Shepherd of Hermas”. For the accompanying article, check out this link. Oh, and I mention Halloween, but nothing about my favourite candy… what’s YOUR favourite candy???
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I hesitate to call this an “episode”, but since it’s the label most often thrown around for podcastery, here we are! Consider it a bit of an intro on “Why podcast?”, a bit of a rambling about “What ‘podcast’?”, and then a trial of a format of me reading through a post I wrote last week, reflections on Douglas Murray’s Madness Of Crowds.
Leeeeeet me know y’all’s thoughts!
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Behold! Yet another brief experiment in this podcast venue. This is an audio capture of the video response I rambled through regarding John Walton’s Lost World Of Genesis One (o’er here).
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Just wanting to experiment with how this podcasting platform works. It’s highly unlikely anyone will stumble upon this, but if they do, my advance-apologies for wasting roughly 40 seconds of your time. 🙏
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