The Passle Podcast - CMO Series: Recent Episodes
Passle
The must-listen podcast for professional services marketers
Join us as we host experts from across the world of Professional Services Business Development and Marketing to discuss how firms can be more authentic, effective and take advantage of the opportunities for growth available today.
It's well documented that better client-based collaboration can boost business development results and build stronger, long lasting relationships between law firms and their clients. What isn't as clear is how firms can turn that collaboration into a real payoff when it comes to lateral hiring.
Today on the CMO Series: Laterals & Mergers, we are revisiting an episode with Dave Southern, former Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer at Choate, Hall & Stewart LLP, now Director of Communications at Mayer Brown, to discuss how greater client collaboration can make lateral hiring pay off.
In this episode Dave discusses:
- His career journey so far and how his experiences have influenced his philosophy on client collaboration
- Why closer client collaboration is so important
- How to improve the results of lateral hiring
- How to apply this process to all clients of the firm and examples of how this has worked
- How this approach fits within the overall go-to-market strategy of the firm
- Advice for legal marketing and BD professionals looking to improve their client collaboration
Marketing and communications play a pivotal role in successfully launching the news of a law firm merger. Being able to strike the right balance between client-centric narratives, internal messaging, brand management, and PR is a fine art.
As part of our new CMO Series Laterals & Mergers series, we're revisiting this key conversation between Will Eke and Will Brewster, former Head of Communications at Clyde & Co, now Leadership Communications Consultant. Will has first-hand experience successfully launching the news of a law firm merger. In this episode, he walks through the different stages of Clyde & Co's merger with BLM from a communications perspective, sharing the challenges, opportunities, and lessons for others navigating the same path.
This conversation covers :
- When Will was brought into the merger with BLM, and the first stage of the process from a communications perspective
- The main challenges during the initial phase
- The key factors for success ahead of launching the communications campaign, and how they played out in practice
- How to keep clients at the heart of the campaign
- The impact of the merger on the team
- Advice for marketing and communications leaders navigating a merger
Moving beyond practice group silos and towards a one firm, one solution approach starting with what the client genuinely needs has never been more relevant for global firms.
On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Tamasin Manwaring, Global Director of Product Business Development at Linklaters, about what it takes to build a client first product strategy at global scale. Drawing on a career that spans EY, Freshfields and more than a decade leading global disputes BD at Hogan Lovells, she shares how Linklaters is putting product BD into practice.
Tamasin talks about her journey into product BD, what makes it distinctly different from traditional practice group BD, and how she's bringing partners along on a more collaborative, client first approach.
Tamasin and Will dive into:
- Her career journey and when product BD became a central focus
- What makes product BD different, and why firms are shifting towards it now
- How to map a product against real client needs
- Bringing partners aboard a collaborative, client first approach
- Building a one firm, one solution culture across 30 offices
- The key barriers to cross-selling and holding a team accountable
- Her one piece of advice for BD leaders going product led
Adapting the big law playbook and driving the same high standards without the big law budget has never been more relevant for growing firms.
On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Sarah High, Director of Marketing and Business Development at Yetter Coleman, about what it takes to successfully build a BD function from the ground up in a boutique litigation firm. Drawing on big law lessons and her ability to drive real strategic growth, she shares how to succeed on a boutique budget.
Sarah talks about her journey from big law to boutique litigation, what it means to be a one person team building the framework for growth, and how she's leaning on external partners and AI to deliver big law results.
Sarah and Will dive into:
- Her early priorities while establishing the BD function
- How to balance a strong legacy with modern growth strategies
- The importance of strong communication with external partners
- Where AI and technology is making the biggest impact
- Expert advice for others building a function from scratch
As the role of a legal marketer evolves beyond traditional definitions, it is important that marketing and BD professionals actively redefine and shape the role’s future direction.
On this week's episode of the CMO Series Podcast Alistair Bone is joined by Jennifer Shankleton, Chief Growth and Development Officer at Brennan Manna & Diamond LLC, a title introduced in recognition that the marketing label no longer captured the full scope of her role. Jennifer sits on the executive committee and works across BD coaching, associate mentoring, and growth strategy.
Jennifer brings a rare inside view of what it looks like building a marketing department from scratch, pushing past the limits of the marketing label, and running a function that wide inside a midsize firm with significant growth ambitions. Jennifer’s experience speaks to what marketing and BD professionals can achieve when the scope of their contribution is allowed to grow alongside their ambition.
Jennifer and Ali also explore:
- Her professional career journey
- Key milestones in the evolution of her role
- Navigating the need for stakeholder buy-in
- Her coaching and mentorship program
- Concrete results demonstrating her positive impact
- Practical advice for others looking to shape their career
Building a BD function that actually drives revenue, not just activity, is something many law firms talk about but few get right.
On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Helen Griffiths, Head of Business Development at Fladgate, who brings a genuinely distinctive perspective to the role, having spent her career across litigation funding, global law firms and a leading commercial barristers' chambers. Since joining Fladgate in 2024, Helen has overhauled the firm's approach to BD, introducing a more structured, targeted model built around clear ownership and measurable results.
Helen and Will discuss:
- How a career spanning small agile businesses to large global firms shaped her approach to stepping into the Fladgate role
- What she found when she arrived, and the four priorities she set from day one
- How she brought both the BD team and fee earners on the journey, and where the resistance actually came from
- How the firm is measuring what's working and what it has stopped doing
- What's on the technology roadmap, including a CRM transformation in progress
- Her one piece of advice for BD leaders trying to build a plan that sticks
In most large law firms, a small handful of clients truly move the needle on revenue, yet BD efforts are still spread thinly across the board.
In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke sits down with Rob Gijsen, Chief Marketing Officer at CMS, who has spent nearly three decades in senior BD and marketing roles at some of the world's largest firms. In the last year, Rob has driven the implementation of a new client and sector strategy to fundamentally change how CMS prioritises and manages its most important relationships.
Rob shares the thinking behind it, what rolling out a strategy looks like at a firm of CMS’s scale, and what he’d advise other leaders thinking about doing the same.
Rob and Will discuss:
- How Rob’s thinking about client strategy has evolved
- The need for a client categorisation framework
- Overcoming roadblocks and negative perceptions
- The quantitative results following the strategy
- Practical advice for others before implementation
In a market where everyone has smart people, strong credentials, and now access to the same AI tools, what is the actual differentiator and how do firms truly stand out?
On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Alex Haidar is joined by Roanne Neuwirth, a B2B enterprise marketing leader and advisor whose career spans over two decades across law firms, global management consultancies, and boutique professional services firms. From Hale and Dorr to Boston Consulting Group, Farland Group, and Bates Communications (acquired by BTS), Roanne has spent her career working with leadership teams to define market position, build client relationships, and drive sustainable growth.
Roanne brings her unique outside-in perspective to challenge how legal and professional services marketers think about positioning, growth, and the role of AI. She makes the case that while technology levels the expertise playing field, genuine thought leadership and client feedback programmes are more important than ever in advancing marketing into the strategic force that truly differentiates.
Roanne and Alex discuss:
- What actually separates the firms that grow from the ones that stand still
- Why marketing should be at the table driving growth, not sitting behind it
- The difference between a market position and a service list, and why so few firms get it right
- Where firms are going wrong on AI, and what they should be asking instead
- Whether the bar for building authentic client relationships has been raised
- Her number one piece of advice for the next generation of professional services CMOs
Building a growth function from scratch has never been more important for law firms, yet it remains one of the hardest things to get right. It means bringing in new people, shaping roles that have never existed before, and responding to a shifting market, all while respecting a firm's culture and heritage. Getting that all right is no mean feat.
On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Clare Quinn-Waters, Chief Growth Officer at Edwin Coe, a role she stepped into in September 2024, and one that still doesn't exist at most law firms. With a 25-year career spanning strategic leadership across legal, professional services, and recruitment, Clare brings a distinctive perspective on what it actually takes to build a growth engine inside a firm with strong heritage and even stronger ambitions.
Clare dives into:
- How her career across professional services and recruitment has shaped her approach to growth
- The state of the team when she joined and what was expected of a brand new Chief Growth Officer
- Her early priorities, what she changed immediately and what she deliberately left untouched
- How a CGO role differs from a traditional CMO or BD Director, and why that distinction mattered for Edwin Coe
- What the growth function looks like today and how her decade in recruitment has helped her hire the right people, with practical tips for other leaders building out their teams
- What's on the horizon for Edwin Coe's growth strategy over the next 6 to 12 months
- Her number one piece of advice for anyone building a growth function from the ground up
55% of law firms say cross-selling is one of their most important levers for revenue growth, yet only 19% strongly agree they're effective at it. That gap between ambition and execution is at the heart of our latest research and it's costing firms real revenue and opportunities.
Today on the CMO Series Podcast, Dionne Cole is joined by James Barclay, CEO of Passle Inc, to discuss the findings from our 2026 Cross-Selling & Collaboration Report, produced in partnership with Hayhurst Consultancy. With responses from 100 managing partners and lawyers across the top 200 US and top 100 UK law firms, the report reveals a significant collaboration gap and a clear roadmap for firms looking to close it.
James explores what the data really means, from the paradox of rate increases driving both growth and client churn, to the visibility challenges that prevent lawyers from cross-selling effectively, and what the firms getting it right are doing differently.
Dionne and James discuss:
- The real business pressures that are pushing firms to rethink how they generate work across practices.
- Why firms talk about cross‑selling far more than they successfully deliver it.
- Why firms need to rethink relying on rate price increases as their primary growth strategy.
- How to fix the visibility gap and get lawyers connected.
- Why so many laterals leave within five years and what firms can do to better integrate them.
- What firm leaders should be doing differently to cultivate a culture of real collaboration.
Click here to download the full 2026 Cross-Selling & Collaboration Report.
And don't miss us at CMO Series Live in New York on June 4th. Get your tickets here.
The countdown is officially on for CMO Series Live 2026! Just 3 weeks to go until the action-packed day of networking, collaboration, and learning with legal marketing and BD professionals from across the industry.
No more FOMO, having to choose what sessions you attend in the morning. It's going to just be one single stream, and that's allowed us to factor in more of that networking that we know everybody loves, and really hone down on what the key topics are that we should be addressing.
In this CMO Series Podcast Special, Dionne Cole chats with Natasha Sandamas, Passle’s Events and Marketing Manager, to dive into what attendees can expect from this year's event. From key agenda highlights and upcoming industry discussions to the launch of the brand-new CMO Series Book Swap, tune in for a preview of what promises to be an exciting and informative day.
Join us in New York on June 4th 2026, secure your tickets here to not miss out.
Law firms talk a lot about client relationships. But turning that into something consistent, scalable and truly integrated across a firm is a very different challenge.
In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Eugene McCormick is joined by Bela Grover, who most recently served as Chief Client Relationship Officer at Goodwin Procter LLP, to explore what it truly takes to formalise client development in a way that strengthens collaboration, improves client experience and helps firms grow more strategically.
Following 25 years at Deloitte in revenue-generating and leadership roles, Bela provides a unique perspective to Big Law as she shares what law firms can learn from consulting firms about client strategy, how to build more purposeful client relationships, and why the systems behind client development matter just as much as the relationships themselves.
Bela also dives into:
- Ways that client approaches differ between the Big Four and law firms
- How to introduce more structure without losing that entrepreneurial edge
- The importance of treating clients as clients of the firm, not individuals
- What strengthening client relationships looks like in practice
- Practical advice for building purposeful client relationships
Getting the right MarTech stack in place has never been more critical, yet many firms struggle with getting the high-stake investment projects off the ground.
Today on the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins sits down with Iwona Kesting, Director of Business Development and Communications at Jones Day, to unpack what it really takes to secure firm-wide backing and how to make tech deliver real impact. With Iwona right in the middle of a major CRM and ERM transformation, she reinforces the importance of shaping the right strategy early with strong alignment across the firm.
She also explores the risks of choosing the wrong tools, the pace of change, and the challenge of getting internal buy-in, as well as knowing where to start.
Charles and Iwona discuss:
- How her approach to MarTech has evolved
- The biggest barriers that cause firms to go wrong
- The steps involved in a CRM and ERM transition
- How to get projects signed off using firm alignment
- How to measure the impact on client relationships and growth
- Practical advice for other firms looking to invest in new tech tools
Cross-selling in law firms isn’t a knowledge problem, it’s an execution problem. Most lawyers know it matters, but few do it consistently because the right infrastructure, support, and momentum aren’t in place.
In this special episode of the CMO Series Podcast, recorded live, Charles Cousins explores the next era of cross-selling alongside Raya Blakeley-Glover, Director of BD, Sales & Clients at Bird & Bird, and Mo Bunnell, CEO & Founder of Bunnell Idea Group. The webinar reinforces the importance of making cross-selling client-led, measurable, and scalable, for communication to win relentlessly.
Raya provides practical advice on how real progress starts once firms stop treating cross-selling as a vague aspiration and build the client-focused systems that allow lawyers to act. She emphasizes replacing hesitation with confidence through structured support, such as the sales resource and training app that Bird & Bird developed in-house.
Mo broadens the perspective by framing cross-selling as a progression from simple presentations to structured programs that drive long-lasting change. He dives into his “Give to Get” concept to shift cross-selling from awkward referrals to meaningful, client-focused exchanges that build momentum.
Business development is something every law firm talks about, but far fewer truly embed it into the day-to-day habits of their lawyers.
On the latest episode on the CMO Series Podcast, we sit down with Gemma Francis, a legal BD consultant who spent years working in-house before stepping out on her own. Gemma now works closely with law firms and lawyers to rethink business development approaches, focusing on mindset, practical habits, and bringing associates into the process much earlier.
In today’s episode, Gemma offers a fresh perspective on the common misconceptions lawyers have about BD, the barriers that firms face, and the simple steps that BD and marketing teams can take to create real momentum.
Gemma also explores:
- The moment she realised there was room for improvement in BD
- What she wishes she’d known during her former in-house career
- The benefits of involving early associates in BD
- How to overcome internal blockers stopping BD momentum
- Key priorities for driving BD traction
High-performing teams are the difference between steady progress and real growth in professional services marketing and BD. Performance doesn’t happen by accident, it’s built, shaped and led.
In the latest CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Tricia Weener, Global Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Linklaters, who has built a career spanning entrepreneurial ventures, scale-ups and global organisations. That breadth gives her a sharp perspective on what “high performance” actually means, and how differently it shows up depending on the environment.
In this episode, we unpack what it really takes to build a high-performing team inside a global law firm and the lessons Tricia brings from outside the industry.
Tricia also shares:
- The perspectives she’s gained during her industry-agnostic career journey
- How high performance shows up in different contexts
- The importance of building high-performing teams on strong foundations
- Using the power of the “three Cs” to shape team culture
- Practical advice for others to build sustainable high-performing teams
Client experience is fast becoming a key driver of long-term growth for law firms that want to deliver real value, build lasting client relationships and stand out in the market.
On today’s new episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins joins Vanessa Crocetto, who recently became Butzel’s first Chief Experience Officer, after more than a decade leading the marketing and business development department. Vanessa now focuses on how clients experience the firm day to day, reflecting the firm’s commitment to driving exceptional client service and sustainable growth as a mid-sized firm.
Vanessa and Charles discuss where client experience meets marketing and BD, how culture shows up in those moments, and the work she is doing to turn client insight into action.
She also dives into:
- How her career journey has shaped her client approach
- What a client-centered culture looks like in practice
- Transitioning from a CMO to a CXO
- Current client experience initiatives at Butzel
- Practical advice for others moving into client experience leadership
Firms cannot afford to fall at the final hurdle. BD must work alongside fee earners to equip them with greater confidence to win and grow client relationships themselves.
On this latest episode of the Passle CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins is joined by Alexis Gray, who has held senior marketing and BD leadership roles at PwC, Grant Thornton, Bond Dickinson and The Berkeley Partnership, as well as spending a decade running a successful marketing and BD consultancy. Alexis joins us to share her experiences on what real BD enablement for fee earners looks like and why so many firms still get it wrong.
Alexis discusses where firms assume skills instead of building them, what really helps fee earners have better client conversations, and how to make BD programs stick without relying on the same few rainmakers.
Alexis and Charles also dive into:
- Her critical realization that fee earner enablement drives growth
- Where firms wrongly assume BD capability
- Reframing BD from sales to client nurturing
- Why partner sponsorship makes initiatives stick
- Embedding BD through systems and incentives
- Practical advice for successful fee earner enablement
The most effective legal marketing today is designed to be useful, not just visible. Firms that are seeing real results are building targeted campaigns that connect insight directly to client need and, ultimately, to revenue.
In today's episode of the CMO Series, Will Eke is joined by Kimberly Rennick, Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer at Thompson Coburn, to explore how bespoke, timely initiatives can become powerful business development engines.
Kim shares how Thompson Coburn turned a moment in the news cycle into a practical tariff analysis tool for clients, why linking top-of-funnel marketing to bottom-of-funnel BD is essential, and how authentic leadership plays a critical role in driving innovation at a time of rapid change in the legal profession.
They also delve into:
- The compelling nature of Thompson Coburn’s culture
- How targeted marketing campaigns can really move the dial
- How to break down often siloed areas of business
- The tangible impacts following the launch of the tariff analysis tool
- What authentic leadership really involves
The smartest PR strategy for law firms isn’t creating more content, it’s repurposing existing expertise and turning that powerful thought leadership into media opportunities.
In today’s episode of CMO Series Digital Masterclass, Yasmin Zand sits down with Ryan Evans, Director of Public Relations and Communications at Jones Walker, to learn all about how to grow a world-class PR pipeline.
In this conversation, he shares the PR success gained from a small Passle pilot in 2022, the steps they took to turn content into ready-to-use PR material for media outreach, and how to connect content, PR, and attorney engagement into one seamless strategy.
He also dives into:
- His own career journey into Jones Walker
- How Passle posts successfully helped to empower attorneys
- PR success stories that built firm-wide buy-in
- The importance of training attorneys in the power of thought leadership
- Practical steps to transform thought leadership into media outreach
To mark International Women’s Day 2026, Part two of our special episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS brings together senior leaders from across the legal sector to focus on one thing. How firms turn intent into action for women in law.
The conversation centres on advocacy and access, who is in the room when decisions are made, who gets named in the room when they are not there, and who is given real exposure to clients, leadership and opportunity.
Our guests discuss how progress doesn’t happen by chance. Firms must create structured pathways to influence, move beyond informal networks and back women with visible sponsorship. Flexibility and parental support also need to be real, not theoretical, if firms want talent to thrive.
The episode offers practical advice on building open, transparent cultures where equity is embedded into how firms operate.
We’re so grateful to all of our guests for joining this special episode:
- Raj Aujla, Director of Communications and Corporate Affairs, Charles Russell Speechlys
- Aubrey Bishai, Chief Innovation Officer, Vinson and Elkins
- Sarah-Jane Howitt, Business Development & Marketing Director and Partner, Weightmans LLP
- Susan Kurz, Chief Marketing and Client Development Officer, Calfee, Halter and Griswold LLP
- Laura Louw, Director of Business Development, Norton Rose Fulbright
- Laura Ottley, Chief Marketing Officer, Addleshaw Goddard
- Susanne Pugsley, Director of Business Development and Marketing, Carpmaels and Ransford
- Clare Quinn-Waters, Chief Growth Officer, Edwin Coe
- Anna Steinberg, Chief Marketing Officer, Tressler LLP
- Kerri Vermeylen, Chief Marketing Officer, Sidley Austin LLP
To mark International Women’s Day 2026, CMO Series REPRESENTS returns with a powerful conversation on leadership, equity and action in legal marketing.
In part one of this special edition, we bring together senior marketing and business development leaders from across the profession to explore how firms can build a true culture of giving to gain, where collaboration, sponsorship and shared success aren’t slogans, but strategic choices.
From approaching equality as a business issue, to active sponsorship of professional women in the workplace. Our guests share their candid insights and lived experiences of what’s working in professional services and where firms have the opportunity to drive meaningful change.
A big thanks to all of our guests for joining the conversation:
- Azeema Batchelor, Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer, Dinsmore & Shohl LLP
- JeanMarie Campbell, Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer, Jenner & Block
- Charlotte Eberlein, Head of Marketing & Business Development, Thomson Snell & Passmore
- Deborah Farone, Marketing & Business Development Strategist & Founder, Farone Advisors
- Tina Gandesha, Director of Business Development, Marketing & Communications, Baker McKenzie
- Helen Griffiths, Head of Business Development, Fladgate
- Rachel Hussey, Clients & Markets Partner, Arthur Cox LLP
- Susanne Mandel, Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer, Lowndes
- Molly Nunes, Director of Communications, Marketing & Client Engagement, WilmerHale
- Kimberly Rennick, Chief Business Development & Marketing Officer, Thompson Coburn LLP
- Amanda Schneider, Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer, Ballard Spahr LLP
- Tricia Weener, Global Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer, Linklaters
Building that long-term leverage can be difficult with short bursts of visibility. You need to consistently show up, make yourself known, and build relationships before you need them.
In today’s CMO Series Rainmakers episode, we are joined by Laurie Burlingame, a Corporate Partner at Morse, who shares her grounded view on what rainmaking really looks like in this current legal market as proactive networking becomes more crucial than ever.
With a background that spans science, an MBA in finance and accounting, and nearly two decades in Big Law during the explosive growth of Boston’s life sciences sector, Laurie has built her practice at the intersection of technical complexity, capital, and client trust. She shares her hard-earned advice on the importance of valued relationships, having a clear understanding of shifting client expectations, and why thought leadership is a non-negotiable for leaders.
Alex and Laurie discuss:
- Her scientific approach to client problem-solving
- The effect of AI on shifting client expectations
- How to maintain momentum and stay top of mind with clients
- The importance of cross-selling to build trust internally
- Structural differences between Big Law and smaller firms
- Effective networking advice to build long-term relationships
In this episode of the CMO Series podcast, we're joined by Doug Gold, Chief Operating Officer at Mitchell Silberberg and Knupp to explore what that means in practice.
Doug shares his career journey and what first bought wellbeing into focus at MSK, and he'll also talk about how the wellness program got off the ground, the realities of building internal support around it and getting it going.
Charles and Doug discuss the impact of the program on individuals and firm culture. The results that have surprised him most, and his advice for leaders looking to invest in wellbeing in a way that delivers lasting value.
True innovation in law firms goes beyond AI. It's rooted in humanity, with the people and process creating true client value.
On today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Aubrey Bishai, Chief Innovation Officer at Vinson & Elkins, to explore the true meaning of innovation and the evolving client expectations around AI. Aubrey joins us to unpack how the firm’s unique leadership structure really works in practice.
Aubrey shares insights into how she decides what’s worth investing in beyond the AI hype, and why she believes innovation is a “deeply human endeavour.” They discuss the role of marketing and BD in driving meaningful change, and what’s next for innovation at Vinson & Elkins in 2026.
Tune in to hear:
- Aubrey’s career journey into the innovation space
- Her definition of innovation and the power of small changes
- The importance of human experience at every step
- How following client needs drives quick changes
- Practical advice on adopting a system-wide approach to innovation
Most law firms pitch a lot. Far fewer pitch well. And that gap represents one of the biggest missed growth opportunities in the legal market.
In the latest episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins is joined by Patrick Johnson, Chief Business Development & Marketing Officer at Honigman, to explore the importance of culture and client-centric storytelling in pitches. After a month in his role, and previous experience spanning multiple law firms and time at McKinsey, Patrick offers a sharp perspective on why pitching and winning work is still treated as a process problem, rather than a strategic one.
They discuss what law firms are getting wrong, what best practice really looks like, and how Honigman is approaching pitching with a curious mindset from day one.
Patrick shares:
- His impressive career journey and how pitching became central to business strategy
- The importance of winning partner buy-in to change how firms pitch
- The importance of culture and process before advancing technology
- Reasons why law firms struggle to win work
- Actionable steps for leaders to introduce new ways of working
Building a book of business isn’t about being perfect or staying invisible, it’s about being consistently authentic and recognizable long before clients even need you.
On today’s episode of CMO Series Rainmakers, we’re joined by someone who has redefined what it means to build a book of business in Big Law. Mona Dajani, Partner and the Global Co-Chair of the Energy, Infrastructure and Hydrogen teams and Co-Chair of the Baker Botts Energy sector worldwide, has spent more than 25 years carving out a reputation as one of the most dynamic and recognisable voices in the sector.
From broadcasting A-list interviews on early-morning TV to posting daily market insights, Mona has turned visibility, personality and consistency into a true competitive advantage. Her ability to generate work, often from followers, viral posts and even dinner parties, is the definition of rainmaking.
Tune in to hear:
- Mona’s unique career journey from broadcasting to law
- The role of authenticity in driving business
- Leveraging thought leadership and cross-selling for big client wins
- The role of the human behind the lawyer
- Practical advice for building a book of business
A consistent client experience doesn’t start with clients. It begins with strong internal alignment throughout the firm, built on trust, collaboration, and a proactive culture.
In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we’re diving into one firm’s bold growth journey.
Lowenstein Sandler has set its sights on expanding from 400 to 700 lawyers in just five years. But behind that ambition lies a bigger story, where marketing, business development, and firm leadership come together to deliver a consistent client experience.
Vanessa Torres, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer, and Mark Kesslen, Partner and Chair of the firm’s Intellectual Property Group, join Eugene McCormick to share how the “One Lowenstein Experience” is shaping culture and innovation, and what success will look like in the years ahead.
They explore:
- The concept behind the “One Lowenstein Experience”
- Using data and insights to anticipate client needs
- How internal collaboration drives trust and credibility
- Lowenstein’s ambitious targets for future success
- Practical advice for building a consistent, positive culture
Standing out in a crowded market increasingly depends on carving out a clear niche and owning it with confidence.
In this episode of CMO Series Rainmakers, Sarah Strachan is joined by Tom Whittaker, Director and Head of AI (Advisory) at Burges Salmon, to explore how lawyers can build authority by becoming the go-to voice in an emerging area. Tom shares how an early interest in writing evolved into a focused thought leadership strategy, positioning him at the forefront of AI regulation long before the space became crowded.
They discuss when thought leadership first clicked for Tom, how he identified an opportunity in a fast-moving regulatory landscape, and the importance of consistency and clarity in building credibility.
Tom and Sarah cover:
- The early stages of Tom's career, and the moment he realised that writing and thought leadership could play a meaningful role in his development
- How he began positioning himself in the AI space before it really gained traction
- The shift from specialising in AI to becoming the person clients and government bodies actively seek out
- How thought leadership has helped build a profile and generate new opportunities
- How to keep insights timely and build visibility in a fast-moving regulatory landscape
- How to encourage a culture of writing, collaboration and knowledge-sharing inside the firm
- Practical steps for lawyers looking to carve out a niche
Law firms are no longer operating in a period of stability; they require momentum. Marketing leaders are expected to evolve alongside the business, retrofitting strategy around lateral growth, proving value through data, and guiding attorneys who are neither new nor at the top.
In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we’re joined by Kathryn Whitaker, Chief Marketing Officer at Burr & Forman, to explore how her leadership and strategic approach have adapted since her first appearance on the podcast back in 2022.
Kathryn shares insights into how marketing supports opportunistic expansion, the shift toward outcome-driven metrics, and why mid-career attorneys might be the biggest missed opportunity in law firm growth strategy today.
Kathryn and Eugene discuss:
- Law firm growth through strategic scaling
- Lateral integration to build long-term success
- The importance of data-driven storytelling to inform decisions
- AI’s practical impact on efficiency and visibility
- The underleveraged investment in mid-career attorneys
What does it take to modernise a 450-year-old law firm without losing the legacy that makes it iconic? Charlotte Eberlein, Head of Marketing and Business Development at Thomson Snell & Passmore, has spent over a decade answering that question in real-time. She has built a business development culture from the ground up, brought PR in-house, and helped the firm deliver big law impact on a regional budget.
In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charlotte joins Will Eke to talk through that journey and the lessons she’s learned along the way.
Charlotte and Will cover:
- Charlotte’s journey from big law to a regional role at Thomson Snell & Passmore, and the moment business development became her focus
- The biggest differences and similarities between a regional independent firm and a big law firm
- How to build a reputation that punches above its weight and delivers big law impact on a leaner budget
- The history of Thomson Snell & Passmore and how to strike the balance between heritage and keeping the brand modern and relevant
- How to compete with limited resources, where to focus investment, and what to leave off the table
- Key projects Charlotte is driving forward right now
- Advice for others trying to market a regional or mid-sized firm with limited resources
Driving business development in a mid-sized regional firm is rarely about large budgets. It’s about sharp strategy, creativity and the ability to make every action count. In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Kelley Goes, Member and Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Jackson Kelly, joins Alex Haidar to share how her unconventional career path has shaped her bold, practical approach to legal marketing and BD.
Kelley’s journey began as a litigator at Akin Gump, moving into public service as West Virginia’s Secretary of Commerce, and later serving as State Operations Director for Joe Manchin. Having been a private practitioner, a public servant, the client and the lawyer to the client, she brings a uniquely rounded perspective to her role at Jackson Kelly.
Today, she leads marketing and BD for the firm with a focus on clarity, confidence and doing more with less. She talks openly about defining the right target audiences, supporting lean teams and introducing new tools without losing lawyers along the way. Her leadership philosophy, shaped by years working with high-stakes decision-makers, is grounded in authenticity, accountability and lifting up the people around her.
Kelley and Alex discuss:
- How an unexpected career path from litigation to public office prepared Kelley for legal marketing
- The leadership lessons she learned working alongside figures like Joe Manchin
- Why confidence, tight messaging and clear audience targeting matter more than budget
- Her creative internal BD initiatives and associate-focused engagement
- How she builds non-traditional teams and bridges creative and legal cultures
- Practical advice for lean BD and marketing teams wanting to better support their lawyers
For this year’s Thanksgiving edition of the CMO Series Podcast, we bring together an outstanding group of legal marketing leaders to reflect on the people and practices that have shaped their careers. What emerges is a clear and compelling message about the importance of trust, collaboration and shared generosity in building strong marketing teams and firm cultures.
Thank you to our special guests for sharing their insights:
Angela Pandolfo Roy, Chief Marketing Officer at Gibbons, Maura Brandt, Chief Marketing Officer at Crowell & Moring, Sarah Kempsey, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Montgomery McCracken, Michael Huntsman, Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer at Bilzin Sumberg Baena Price & Axelrod, Phill McGowan, Founder of Phill McGowan Marketing, Alexandra DeFelice, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Jeffer Mangels Butler & Mitchell LLP, Vanessa Crocetto, Chief Marketing Officer at Butzel, Douglas Gold, Chief Operating Officer at Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP, Rebecca Wissler, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Ice Miller, Danielle Wuschke Paige, Chief Marketing and Growth Officer at Nixon Peabody LLP, and Lindsey McReynolds, Chief Client Relations Officer at Schwabe Williamson & Wyatt.
Across the episode, they share how firms can build environments where collaboration truly thrives. Creating space for people to contribute, recognising effort, supporting new ideas and giving credit freely all strengthen teams and empower talent to grow.
Their reflections remind us that the most successful organisations are built on trust and a genuine willingness to lift others up. It’s a thoughtful and timely conversation for this season of gratitude.
Wishing you a wonderful Thanksgiving.
If you’re a law firm marketer, you know the pressure of balancing attorney demands, limited resources, and the need to stay genuinely strategic. The job is more than execution. It requires sharp prioritization and a steady, trusted voice over time.
In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Alex Haidar talks with Jocelyn Brumbaugh, Founder of Builden Partners and legal marketing leader with experience at firms such as Foley & Lardner, Baker McKenzie, and Citadel. She shares practical, process-focused guidance to make marketing effective where it truly counts.
They discuss the skills legal marketers need to thrive, from earning attorney loyalty to influencing decisions with confidence and preparing the next generation to succeed.
Jocelyn shares:
- Her inspiring journey into professional services marketing and her own ventures
- The biggest gaps and challenges currently within legal marketing
- Critical skills that junior marketers need to possess
- Her successful Spark Legal Marketing Masterclass
- Future opportunities to excel in legal marketing
- Advice for CMOs on driving team growth
Most law firm CMOs agree that cross-selling is the fastest and most cost-effective way to grow law firm revenue. Yet, our latest research shows that 84% of law firms are missing out on these opportunities.
The biggest barriers to cross-selling success are awareness and trust. Lawyers need the confidence to refer work which requires trust across teams, and they need visibility into the full scope of the firm’s expertise so they know what their colleagues actually do.
That’s where CrossPitch AI comes in. At a recent CMO Series event in London, Connor Kinnear unpacked the challenges, the opportunities, and how AI can help firms finally make cross-selling happen.
In this special edition of the CMO Series Podcast, Connor dives deeper into:
- The ongoing challenge of cross-selling, and why it remains so important
- How Passle’s CrossPitch AI helps firms connect the dots
- What’s behind the impressive engagement results clients are seeing
- How the new Cross-Selling Intelligence Map makes collaboration visible
Making an impact in business development isn’t about following a script; it’s about finding what works, what doesn’t, and where you can really move the needle. Through the power of listening and successful automation strategies, important client relationships can be strengthened.
Today on the Passle CMO Series podcast, Charles is joined by Charlotte Watt, Head of Business Development at Brabners, to hear about her journey from the British Army to BD in the legal sector, and how her early career experiences shaped her people-first and results-driven approach.
With nearly two years at the firm, Charlotte shares many key insights that she has learned along the way. From navigating the challenges of stepping into law to developing practical initiatives involving structure, coaching and human touch.
Charlotte and Charles discuss:
- Charlotte's unique journey into Business Development
- The initial challenges she faced in her role
- How she used early career experiences to help her succeed
- Approaches to avoid in the initial phases
- Recommendations and initiatives to successfully engage with clients
Implementing a seamless Content Management System that is able to grow alongside the firm in the long-term should be a top priority within law firms digital strategies. Through extended team collaboration, firms can create a shared vision for suitable future marketing technology, ensuring flexibility and scalability, while also boosting efficiency and SEO.
Today on the Passle CMO Series Digital Masterclass Podcast, we’re diving into CMS for the legal sector, a crucial part of a firm’s marketing and business development toolkit.
Carrie Dyer, Digital Account Director at Appius, a company with deep experience in the legal market, with clients including Freshfields and Ashurst, joins us to discuss how firms can choose the right CMS.
Carrie shares her insights on:
- Appius’ experience and high reputation within the legal market
- The critical importance of creating an effective CMS
- Various main CMS platforms and their different offerings
- The key factors and processes to consider when selecting a CMS
- Common pitfalls many firms continue to face
- Her expert takeaways for implementing a successful CMS
Live from the Lex Mundi Americas Regional Marketing and Business Development Roundtable in Denver, this special episode of the CMO Series Podcast dives into Cross-Selling in Practice.
Ali Bone is joined by Susan Lee Hollender, Chief Growth Officer at Michael Best & Friedrich, to explore how firms can move from intention to action.
Drawing on insights from Passle’s AI & Cross-Selling Report 2025, the conversation unpacks what’s working across the Lex Mundi network, the barriers that hold firms back, and what clients truly want to see.
From building trust and awareness to proven approaches and success stories, Susan and Ali discuss the practical lessons and ideas for how firms can make cross-selling easier and more impactful.
In an industry where tradition often outweighs transformation, building trust and influence is the foundation for earning long-term credibility and needs to start from within.
In today’s must-listen episode of the CMO Series podcast, Eugene speaks with Jennifer Stokes, Senior Director of Marketing and Business Development at Shipman & Goodwin, to explore her long-awaited insights into the importance of earning trust and credibility internally.
With nearly two decades at the firm, Jen brings a unique perspective on what it takes to earn trust in a legacy-driven law firm. From navigating leadership dynamics to championing the role of marketing at the strategic table, Jen has played a key role in reshaping how BD and marketing are perceived and prioritized.
Eugene and Jennifer cover:
- How the role of Marketing has evolved during her 17 years at Shipman & Goodwin
- Jen’s approach to building internal trust and influence in a relationship-driven industry
- The value of having strategic thought partnerships
- Jen’s partnership achievements including cultural and mindset shifts
- How to build long-term credibility
Cross-selling remains one of the biggest growth opportunities for professional services firms, yet cultural silos, lack of trust and missed client insights mean many struggle to get it right.
Join this panel of professional services marketing and BD leaders as they unpack the biggest challenges and opportunities in cross-selling today.
Recorded live in London, Will Eke hosts Sadie Baron (Interim CMO, TLT), Barney O’Kelly (Head of Solutions & Product Marketing, AlixPartners), Peter Skinner (BD & Marketing Director, Wedlake Bell) and James Davidge (Head of Origination, Taylor Wessing) as they dive into the pitfalls of cross-firm collaboration, the growth opportunities within reach, and the tools and techniques shaping a culture of cross-selling.
They discuss:
- Why culture change is essential for collaboration
- How trust keeps referrals moving
- Using data to spot opportunities and connections
- The role of leadership in modelling behaviour
- Tools that make cross-selling work in practice
- Why clients expect joined-up, integrated advice
The art of storytelling is becoming an increasingly vital tool for law firms to form strong client relationships through personal connections, ultimately encouraging natural collaboration to rise above competitors.
Today, Alitia Faccone joins Will Eke on the CMO Series Podcast to share exactly how to incorporate successful storytelling into legal marketing. From acting school to law school to leading business development at Jackson Lewis, Alitia Faccone has built a career leveraging the power of storytelling.
In this episode, we’re going to dive into how data, creativity, and a ‘professionally personal’ approach to content are helping the firm connect with clients in more meaningful ways, and what’s next as storytelling, data, and technology converge in legal marketing.
Alitia and Will discuss:
- Her unique career path into legal marketing and business development
- Alitia’s expert advice and experience on the foundational role of storytelling within legal marketing
- Applying data insights to inform client-focused strategies
- The practice of creating ‘professionally personal’ attorney bios
- Future strategic plans involving the integration of storytelling, data and technology
Executing an effective thought leadership strategy is essential in professional services marketing, yet many firms continue to struggle. By understanding and implementing the right approaches, firms can not only cut through crowded markets but also build lasting credibility.
In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charlie speaks with a former guest on the series, Phill McGowan, who has led marketing and communications at top law firms including Jenner & Block, Crowell & Moring, and Reed Smith. Now, through his consultancy, Phill McGowan Marketing, he helps firms deliver impactful, data-driven campaigns.
Phill joins us today for a masterclass in building successful thought leadership campaigns, from distinguishing between flagship Capital “C” campaigns to more agile, lower-case “c” initiatives. We’ll also explore how to navigate shifting markets, secure leadership buy-in, and create content that stands out.
Phill and Charlie dive into:
- Phill’s journey into legal marketing and his first time seeing impactful thought leadership
- Common mistakes versus best practice in law firm thought leadership
- The implications and opportunities of a shifting market on thought leadership
- Understanding capital ‘C’ and lower-case ‘c’ campaigns and their essential elements
- Advice for firms on securing buy-in and leadership support for further investment
- Practical tips for CMOs looking to build a sustainable thought leadership strategy
Boutique firms are continually finding new ways to stand out, tackle significant cases, and make a lasting impact.
In today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Eugene McCormick welcomes Anne Kunkel, the Chief Marketing Officer at Redgrave. Anne joins Eugene to discuss how boutique firms consistently go above and beyond, sharing her insights on building an agile team, navigating new technologies, AI, and regulations, and successfully driving strategy through to action.
Anne and Eugene explore:
- Anne’s background and unique career journey to Redgrave
- The approach Redgrave takes to position their unique style in the legal market
- Anne’s practical tips for balancing her day-to-day responsibilities
- The key qualities and talents that Anne prioritizes when building her team
- Key elements that are reshaping Redgrave’s brand and growth development
- Top priorities for navigating changes that are reshaping legal marketing
- Advice for CMOs aiming to make an impact in boutique firms
Fractional marketing is on the rise, enabling firms to tap into top-tier expertise without the full-time cost.
In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins sits down with leading fractional marketer, Helen Cox. Helen breaks down the common mistakes that appear in marketing and BD, the role a fractional CMO plays and how firms can truly find value in leveraging fractional leadership without the full-time cost.
Helen is a Marketing and Business development consultant and the founder of Helen Cox Marketing. She has successfully worked with numerous firms, helping them re-strategise their marketing and BD plans, and show internal teams how to use AI and technology to work smarter and more effectively.
Helen and Charles discuss:
- Helen’s career journey to becoming a fractional marketer in professional services
- Helen’s definition of the term “Fractional” and how roles like this fit into the professional services industry
- When firms can get the most value from a fractional marketer
- The common mistakes that appear in legal marketing and business development
- Helen’s successful moments supporting firms and what that looks like
- Key advice for marketers going fractional
- The approaches firms can take to bringing in a fractional leader successfully
Law firms continue to struggle with getting their lawyers to cross-sell effectively, leaving significant revenue untapped. The good news is that with the right strategic shift, firms can close the gap between their professionals and cross-selling success.
In this episode of the CMO Series, Yasmin Zand is joined by Threshold Advisors Managing Partner, Dr. Karen Kahn, to talk about how firms can do this effectively. Karen is a psychologist, certified coach, and the author of Daunting to Doable.
In this episode, Karen breaks down how law firms can turn relationships into revenue by making cross-selling simple, authentic, and lawyer-focused. She shares the mindset shifts, behaviors, and tech tools that help CMOs and leaders move from broad strategies to personalized, practical business development that actually sticks.
Karen and Yasmin dive into:
- Karen’s career journey in psychology and the pivotal moment she decided to work with law firms
- The core reasons why cross-selling is central to firms’ growth and the barriers stopping lawyers from cross-selling
- The shift in Business Development from macro to micro and ways firms can better support their professionals
- The key mindset lawyers need to adopt in order to grow in confidence and successfully cross-sell
- The role of technology and AI in transforming lawyers’ habits into effective cross-selling behaviors
- Advice for CMOs and marketing leaders wanting to close the cross-selling gap and get their lawyers cross-selling effectively
Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion has become a critical framework for organisations striving to create more supportive environments for both current and prospective employees. As the competition for talent intensifies, firms are recognising the importance of addressing gaps in representation.
Today's guest on CMO Series REPRESENTS is someone well-versed in driving meaningful change and is here to discuss why building a culture of belonging matters. Olivia Backon is joined by Paul Modley, AMS’s Managing Director of Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging.
Paul’s journey has been powerful and inspiring, taking him from his working-class roots in Wales to the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games, and now leading the charge at AMS where he has created a global Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging Centre of Excellence to ensure that existing and emerging talent get the support, resources and recognition they deserve.
Paul and Olivia explore:
- The influence of Paul’s upbringing in shaping his commitment to social mobility throughout his career
- How AMS has advanced its DEIB initiatives in response to global pivotal moments
- The strategies AMS is implementing to elevate disability inclusion and neurodiversity within workplace conversations
- How AMS supports clients in navigating their own DEIB journeys while maintaining clarity and consistency in its internal strategy
- What genuine buy-in for DEIB looks like in practice
- Practical advice for organisations seeking to strengthen and embed a more impactful DEIB strategy
In today’s legal market, mid-size firms are proving they can punch well above their weight, and the secret often lies in bold, strategic marketing leadership. In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins speaks with Courtney Beauzile, Head of Marketing, Business Development & Communications at Robins Kaplan. After moving from an AMLaw 100 firm to an AMLaw 200 mid-size firm, Courtney has shown how the right approach can fuel growth, elevate digital presence, and transform the impact of marketing.
Two years into her role, Courtney shares her playbook for building strong, diverse teams that bring creativity and innovation to every campaign. By harnessing a mix of personalities and skills, she demonstrates how mid-size firms can develop strategies that not only compete with, but often outpace, the largest players.
Charles and Courtney dive into:
- Courtney’s journey to Robins Kaplan
- How Courtney has tailored her approaches and leadership style in her current role
- The early success Courtney and her team achieved
- Key qualities and structures which helped her team support the firms goals
- The impact of having a diverse team
- Future projects that will driving the firm in the legal landscape
- Advice for marketing, BD and communication leaders wanting to have a big impact at a midsize firm
In a time when business leaders are navigating heightened political division, evolving workplace expectations, and the urgent call for inclusivity, understanding how to lead with purpose has never been more critical.
On this episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS, Yasmin Zand is joined by Gina Rubel, CEO and General Counsel at Furia Rubel Communications. Their conversation explores the deep commitment to advocacy, DEI, and ethical relationship-building that has shaped Gina’s leadership and the culture at Furia Rubel.
Together, they delve into the forces behind Gina’s passion, including her work with the Rule of Law Coalition, and examine how leaders can create truly safe and inclusive spaces in today’s legal industry.
Gina and Yasmin dive into:
- The steps CMOs and firm leaders must take to communicate effectively, internally and externally, amid political polarization
- The story behind the Rule of Law Coalition and its significance in today’s climate
- Practical advice for legal marketers striving to lead with authenticity and purpose
AI is transforming the legal industry, yet many firms are missing a trick. While policies and strategies are taking shape, marketing and business development are too often left out of the conversation.
In this episode, Charles Cousins speaks with Guy Alvarez, lawyer-turned-entrepreneur and founder of InnovAItion Partners, on why marketing and BD leaders need a seat at the AI table, and how their involvement can drive innovation, meet client expectations, and give firms a competitive edge.
Guy and Charles cover:
- Guy’s journey into legal marketing and the work he has done with Good2bSocial
- The pivot towards AI and the turning point for this
- Key insights from Guy's recent survey on AI adoption in legal marketing and BD
- The current position of the legal field in adopting AI into marketing and BD
- The role legal marketers should be playing when it comes to AI strategy.
- The steps firms should be taking to move in the right direction in adopting AI into marketing and BD
- Advice for team leaders or individuals navigating the space of AI adoption and how they can set themselves up for success
Creating impactful thought leadership content in a high-pressure, client-driven industry is no small feat, especially when time is tight. But done right, it can unlock career-defining opportunities, from keynote invitations to game-changing client wins.
In this episode of CMO Series Rainmakers, Yasmin Zand sits down with Carl Kennedy, Co-chair of Financial Markets and Regulation at Katten, to unpack how he’s built a standout reputation by consistently delivering timely, authentic thought leadership.
Carl shares the mindset and strategy behind his thought leadership success, including how he balances content creation with client demands and how that effort has led to major speaking engagements, high-profile matters, and a strong personal brand in a crowded market.
Carl and Yasmin discuss:
- The moment Carl realised thought leadership was worth the investment
- How Carl ensures thought leadership resonates without sounding like everyone else
- What “good” looks like when it comes to expert-led content, and examples of success
- Practical tips for maintaining momentum (even when you’re busy)
- How to embed a culture of thought leadership across your firm
On this episode of CMO Series Represents, Yasmin Zand is joined by Ioana Good, founder of Promova, for a conversation that’s as inspiring as it is insightful.
Ioana’s journey began when she left Romania for the U.S. with just two suitcases and limited English. What followed was a path defined by resilience, self-education, and an unwavering commitment to growth. From navigating the challenges of a new culture to transitioning from the newsroom to the boardroom, Ioana shares how each experience helped shape her into the leader and communicator she is today.
In this episode, Ioana discusses:
- The challenges of building a life and career in a new country
- How she discovered and refined her voice as a communicator
- The transition from journalism to executive leadership
- Blending strategy, storytelling, and purpose to create real impact
Whether you're early in your career, building your own business, or simply seeking inspiration to take your next big step, Ioana’s story offers valuable lessons in owning your narrative and leading with authenticity.
As major infrastructure initiatives like CRM become more essential, many firms find themselves struggling to get projects off the ground. From securing stakeholder buy-in to selecting the right technology and navigating complex security requirements, launching a CRM can feel overwhelming. But with the right strategic approach, it doesn’t have to be.
In today’s episode, Charles Cousins is joined by Julie Mortimer, Director of Marketing at Mills & Reeve, for a practical deep dive into how to launch a CRM project successfully. Julie shares expert insights on overcoming common challenges, choosing the right vendors, and securing lasting buy-in from stakeholders.
In this episode, Julie and Charles discuss:
- The essential first steps CMOs should take when launching a CRM, especially in the legal sector
- How to build long-term buy-in for a complex and costly project
- Key strategic and technical considerations in the early stages
- The value of integrating AI into your CRM stack to power marketing and business development
- Advice for selecting the right vendors and technologies for your firm
- The top dos and don'ts for avoiding common CRM pitfalls
On Thursday, June 5th, we hosted CMO Series Live 2025 in New York. Throughout the day, we witnessed sessions led by senior marketing leaders and managing partners. Today, we are revisiting one of the standout sessions of the day, which explored the way AI is reshaping the landscape for legal marketing and business development.
Moderated by Sam Page, we heard from:
- Jen Leonard, Founder & Principal at Creative Lawyers,
- Darth Vaughn, Associate General Counsel & Managing Director, Policy and Legal Operations at Ford Motor Company
- Bridget Mary McCormack, President and CEO at American Arbitration Association
- Jim Metzger, Chief Financial Officer at Reed Smith
Jen, Darth, Bridget, and Jim addressed how CMOs can adapt to recognize and meet their clients' needs and expectations, and how to make internal strategic investments in having AI-driven legal services.
This special episode covers:
- How AI is changing the conversations that they are having in their organizations
- The strategic steps CMOs should be taking to revolutionize business development and marketing models as AI comes into play
- Examples of specific AI deployments
- The current positioning of the wider market for adopting and using AI, especially for clients of law firms
- The methods to train and develop associates on the use of AI, whilst focusing on critical thinking
- The approaches that CMOs can take to having conversations with their CFOs on rationalizing the cost of implementing AI
Content has become a powerful driver of visibility and growth in the legal industry. But with so many approaches to creating and delivering content, how can firms foster a culture that not only encourages contribution but also supports business development and client engagement?
On this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, James Barclay is joined by Richard Meneghello, Chief Content Officer at Fisher Phillips, to explore what it takes to get lawyers writing, and why close collaboration with marketing and BD teams is essential to making it work.
Richard also shares his perspective on the role of technology, particularly AI, in helping lawyers write more effectively and deliver content that resonates. Plus, he offers thoughtful advice on how firms can embrace AI while protecting their brand integrity and maintaining trust.
James and Richard cover:
- Richard’s career journey from Partner to Chief Content Officer and what that transition looked like
- The role of Chief Content Officer and what the role looks like day-to-day
- How Richard collaborates across the teams while leading an independent function within the firm
- Examples where specific content campaigns have directly contributed to the firm's client growth or business development
- Strategies to get lawyers writing and writing well and the steps taken to build a culture of content
- The ways AI and technology are being used to help train lawyers in writing content and pushing out insights faster
- Advice for CMOs looking to elevate their content and separate themselves from other firms
Cross-selling is becoming an essential part of how law firms can boost their revenue and create long-lasting relationships with their clients. Yet, CMOs and BD leaders have recognized that their lawyers are struggling to cross-sell effectively, leaving them wondering how they can get their lawyers over the cross-selling barriers. The key to that is building real human connection.
On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charlie Knight is joined by Jason Levin, Founder of Ready Set Launch and author of Relationships to Infinity, former brand marketer of Unilever, and a business development coach to law firms across the US. Jason shares his insights on how CMOs can help their lawyers be more authentic and in-tune with their clients to help unlock unlimited opportunities to cross-sell and establish long-lasting relationships.
Charlie and Jason cover:
- The types of clients Jason takes on and the core work Jason does with law firms
- The expectations that general counsels have for law firms and the reason why lawyers fall short in meeting their expectations
- The approaches lawyers can take to build relationships and how CMOs can make it easier for their lawyers
- The barriers holding law firms back from cross-selling and what practical steps CMOs can take to help their lawyers unlock their cross-selling potential
- The ways CMOs can help their lawyers shift from the ‘not enough time’ mindset to a proactive mindset
- Practical examples of small changes that lead to significant results, along with key takeaways CMOs should apply
- Advice for CMOs on building authentic relationships to unlock the full potential of cross-selling within their firms
In this special edition of the CMO Series Podcast, we revisit one of the standout sessions from last week’s CMO Series Live in New York. This episode explores how managing partners and senior leaders are using thought leadership to strengthen client relationships, drive business development, and leave a lasting impact in the digital space.
This session was moderated by our very own Alistair Bone, who was joined on stage by:
- Jeff Greenbaum, Managing Partner of Frankfurt Kurnit Klein & Selz
- Simon Malko, Managing Partner of Morris, Manning & Martin
- Meredith Williams-Range, Chief Legal Operating Officer at Gibson Dunn
- Carl Kennedy, Partner and Co-Chair, Financial Markets and Regulation at Katten
Jeff, Simon, Meredith, and Carl shared how effectively leveraging thought leadership has fueled their firm’s growth, elevated their personal brands, and empowered their lawyers to become thought leaders themselves.
This special episode covers:
- How thought leadership fits into today's legal landscape and why it's significant
- The challenges to expect when getting your lawyers to create their own thought leadership
- Refreshing approaches to maintaining a dynamic and compelling online presence over the long term
- Advice for firms that want to build successful thought leadership programs
AI is quickly being adopted and used to keep firms ahead of the curve, yet many firms struggle to do this effectively and get the most out of AI. However, the key question many firms ask is ‘How do we bring the whole firm along the journey of using AI?’
In today’s re-release episode, Gina Connell, Chief Marketing Officer at B P Collins, discusses the practical and strategic approaches to navigating the journey of AI within a firm. Gina breaks down how she led the charge of the firm’s AI policy, how firms can collaborate and use AI, and how to encourage people across the firm to engage with AI effectively.
This episode covers:
- Practical steps to effectively developing and communicating an AI policy
- How to bring the different areas of the firm up to speed on AI and its potential impact on their sectors.
- What the AI journey looks like and what are the biggest opportunities for AI in legal marketing.
- Advice for marketers looking to stay ahead of the curve with AI in their firm.
For law firms to truly stand out, creativity in storytelling is essential. It’s what humanises the brand and helps build stronger, more meaningful relationships with clients and prospects.
On today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Alistair Bone is joined by Laura Klysz, Chief Marketing Officer at Simmons & Simmons, who recently led the firm to a Drum Award nomination for their standout campaign, The Year Ahead 2025.
Laura shares how storytelling has become a powerful foundation of her legal marketing strategy - and how looking beyond the legal sector for inspiration can unlock new levels of creativity and thought leadership.
In this conversation, Laura takes us behind the scenes of The Year Ahead campaign, discussing the concept, the creative process, and the challenges faced along the way, including some surprising results. She also offers a sneak peek at what’s next and how she plans to sustain the momentum.
Laura and Ali explore:
- Her journey to becoming CMO and how it shaped her approach to storytelling
- Why storytelling is central to building a modern legal brand
- What law firms can learn from other industries about creativity and content leadership
- How The Year Ahead campaign was developed, launched, and brought to life with stakeholder buy-in
- The campaign’s internal and external impact - and the unexpected outcomes that followed
- Her strategy for evolving the campaign and keeping it fresh
- Practical advice for CMOs looking to embed storytelling into their marketing efforts
AI and automation are reshaping how professionals engage with their clients and promote their services, but is there any room left for human creativity?
In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins is joined by Nicholas Barrows, Director of Marketing at Trowers & Hamlins, to discuss the evolution of AI, data and creativity in marketing and business development.
Nicholas shares his insights on how AI is transforming the professional industry, the journey of their data-driven campaigns like ‘Rethinking Regeneration’, and how professionals can blend AI, data, and human creativity to promote greater client engagement.
Nicholas and Charles cover:
- How AI and data have changed the way professionals engage with their clients in marketing and business development, and where human creativity fits into this.
- How to leverage AI and automation to uncover new opportunities and drive business development efforts.
- The ‘Rethinking Regeneration’ campaign, and the roles technology and data-driven client engagement play alongside human creativity.
- The challenges of delivering the ‘Rethinking Regeneration’ campaign and how they were tackled.
- Advice for professionals looking to blend AI with creativity for better client engagement.
Thought leadership is a cornerstone of content marketing in professional services; it showcases your firm’s expertise and strengthens client relationships. The real challenge is uniting lawyers on one platform to centralise and scale thought leadership.
In this episode of CMO Series Digital Masterclass, Will Eke speaks with Chris Yates, Digital Marketing Manager at Bristows, where over 150 authors have published 900+ insights, driving more than 330,000 views.
Chris shares how Bristows has reimagined its approach to thought leadership, brought lawyers on board, and built an internal comms strategy that made it all work.
Will and Chris cover:
- The platforms and thought leadership strategies Bristows used before Chris joined
- The turning point for Bristows in consolidating the firm's thought leadership platforms
- The steps to managing and streamlining the new strategy and platforms
- How to get lawyers engaged with the new process and the importance of key internal relationships in making the initiative successful
- The strategies used when implementing the adoption of Passle across the firm
- The feedback that has been received from lawyers and partners using Passle and the impact it has had on business development
- The future of the firm's thought leadership strategy
- Advice for getting lawyers on board with a central thought leadership platform
AI is being leveraged in professional services marketing at a rapid rate, yet there are limited examples of successful adoption.
In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast re-release series, Tracey Whyte, Director of Business Development and Marketing at Piper Alderman, speaks with Charles Cousins to share practical tips on the applications of AI that she has been using to drive the firm in the market. She also shares the challenges that come with applying AI and how she's navigating them.
Key highlights from this episode include:
- Tracey’s journey to Piper Alderman
- The early steps to adopting AI
- The use of AI across the marketing and BD functions, and its purpose
- Advice on how to get the most from AI
We're revisiting standout episodes from the CMO Series Podcast exploring the role of AI in reshaping professional services marketing.
In this second episode of the series, we look back at an unforgettable session from the CMO Series Live held in New York. Joe Green, Chief Innovation Officer, and Monica Rodriguez Kuniyoshi, Chief Marketing Officer of Gunderson Dettmer, took to the stage to discuss integrating generative AI into their team's expertise.
They cover:
- How they are leveraging AI
- The strategic decisions involved when using and implementing generative AI
- How to keep the human voice central to the firm while embracing the power of AI.
We’re revisiting standout episodes of the CMO Series Podcast to explore how AI is reshaping professional services marketing. We’ll hear insights directly from industry leaders on the best approaches to integrating AI into your firm and the efficiencies they are seeing.
In this special episode, we look back at a memorable session from the CMO Series Live held in New York.
Alison Arjoon, the Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Fragomen, and Luke Ferrandino, who was the CMO at Paul Weiss and is now the Chief Business Development & Marketing Officer at Skadden, took to the stage to discuss how AI is ushering in a new era of collaboration within law firms.
They cover:
- The role of technology and the challenges faced by both traditional and non-traditional law firms
- Strategies for effectively leveraging technology to streamline processes
- How AI contributes to project success and fosters a new way of collaboration
- The evolving role of AI and its current and future impact
Every law firm strives to achieve year-on-year profitable revenue growth. As the industry continues to grow more competitive, firms are looking at how to drive sustainable, organic growth by focusing on client value delivery.
On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, James Barclay is joined by Wendy Bernero, Founder and Strategic Advisor at Yate Collaborative, who has over 30 years of experience in legal marketing and held Chief roles in firms including Baker McKenzie. Wendy discusses insights on how firms can deliver real value to their clients, the ways to maximise cross-selling and more.
James and Wendy cover:
- Wendy’s background in legal marketing and key learnings she's taken into her current role
- The strategies CMOs should implement and stay away from
- The reasons why firms should decide whether they want to be a solution provider or a talent agency
- The framework that Wendy uses to maximise cross-selling and the steps teams should take to make it successful
- The three actions every marketing and BD leader should do to improve their go-to-market strategy
Top-tier client experience is essential for law firms to stand out in a busy market. By prioritising usability and aligning with client needs, firms can showcase expertise, simplify engagement, and build trust, driving inquiries and conversions in a digital-first landscape.
In this episode of CMO Series Digital Masterclass, Charlie Knight is joined by Gareth Osborne, Managing Director at MRM UK, and John Riley, Head of Strategy. Together, they delve into the critical role of client experience, exploring how firms can unlock value by deeply understanding their clients' needs and motivations.
Gareth, John and Charlie Cover:
- The biggest considerations for law firms embarking on a website project, and where most go wrong
- Guidance on how firms can identify when client experience should be a key focus
- The "Discover, Define, Deliver" framework and how it helps to understand a firm’s unique challenges and opportunities to shape a website project
- How to assess both digital and human interactions within a firm and ensure these touchpoints are integrated throughout a website overhaul
- How to leverage digital platforms to drive sustainable growth by aligning technology decisions with long-term business goals
- Advice for CMOs who may need to focus on client experience when starting a website project
In smaller to mid-sized firms, the marketing function can sometimes fall on the shoulders of just one person.
In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Alistair Bone talks with not one but two solo marketers - Paige Pierce, Business Development & Marketing Manager at Ray Quinney & Nebeker, and Tiffani Mowry, Marketing and Attorney Recruiting Coordinator at Crowley Fleck. They discuss their insights, secrets and strategies to succeeding as a solo legal marketer.
Alistair, Paige and Tiffani cover:
- What their respective roles entail
- The strategies and approaches to managing campaigns and initiatives as a solo marketer
- The importance of having full buy-in and the support from the firm's leadership
- The influential networks they lean on for support
- The challenges of being a solo marketer and how to manage multiple priorities effectively
- Strategies to help manage receiving feedback
- Advice for other solo marketers or those heading up very lean teams
Thought leadership has become an essential strategy for professional services marketers, and it's even more powerful when driven by the experts and lawyers themselves.
In today's episode of CMO Series Rainmakers, Olivia Backon is joined by two of the foremost voices in advertising and marketing law - Brinsley Dresden and Geraint Lloyd-Taylor, Partners and Co-Heads of Advertising & Marketing at Lewis Silkin.
Brinsley and Geraint are renowned for their engaging and insightful thought leadership. With a blend of wit and humour, they tackle key issues in the advertising world, from ASA decisions to new legislation. Through their writing and expertise, they’ve shaped industry conversations and built strong reputations within the legal community and with their clients by strategically leveraging thought leadership to enhance their personal and practice brands.
Brinsley, Geraint and Olivia discuss:
- How Brinsley and Geraint have built their reputations in the advertising and marketing law space, and the moment they realised the power of thought leadership in shaping professional reputations
- How writing and publishing regular insights helps establish authority and credibility in a competitive industry
- How they developed their witty writing style, and why this approach is essential for connecting with clients
- How to integrate thought leadership with other marketing strategies to enhance the client experience and broaden reach
- Examples of how thought leadership content has delivered tangible value to clients and generated new business
- The AdLaw Podcast Brinsley and Geraint host, and how that is contributing to the practice group’s credibility in the advertising law space
- Advice for others looking to build their personal, practice and firm brands through thought leadership
You can catch all the insights from Brinsley, Geraint and the team at Lewis Silkin, here.
CMO Series Live is back! After a hugely successful sell-out CMO Series Live last year in New York, we have decided to return for a second year running.
This year, CMO Series Live is set to be bigger and better, with another stellar lineup of speakers covering the hottest topics in legal marketing, from AI to cross-selling.
On today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Natsaha Sandamas joins us to share an exclusive look at what to expect from CMO Series Live 2025.
Natasha and Charlie cover:
- An overview of what CMO Series Live is and highlights from last year
- This year’s line-up and the agenda
- Why CMO Series Live is a must-attend for Chief Marketing and BD professionals
- How to register to attend
Creating deep connections with clients can lead to new opportunities for law firms to gain a greater understanding of client goals.
In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Ian Ribald, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Ballard Spahr, to discuss how legal teams can benefit hugely from taking a more holistic approach to their marketing and business development efforts.
Ian and Will cover:
- What Ian hopes to bring to his role and the surprises he's faced
- How Ian’s approach to marketing and business development shifted after running previous client programs
- The importance of legal teams seeing clients from multiple perspectives
- Ian’s strategies for keeping everyone on the same page and motivated when taking a new approach, especially when it comes to buy-in
- How Ian encourages his team to understand the pressures of the different areas of the business as a way to build empathy and improve the client experience
- Advice for others looking to take a more holistic approach to legal marking and get their team on board
In our second special episode to mark International Women's Day 2025, we catch up with inspiring women who are paving the way in professional services marketing and business development. They share their top tips for firms looking to accelerate action and promote equality within their organizations.
Our incredible guests discuss the importance of transparent paths to promotion, the significant impact of leading by example, and why creating a safe space for authenticity is crucial to fostering equality in the industry.
A big thanks to all of our guests for their generous contributions to this important conversation:
Amelia Calloway, Director of Marketing and Business Development, Morris Manning & Martin
Amanda Lindley, Director of Business Development, Thompson Coburn
Ashley Horne, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer, Womble Bond Dickinson, US
Bonnelle Martin, Associate Director - Marketing and Brand, Baker Botts
Heather Reid, Chief Business Development & Marketing Officer, Miles & Stockbridge
Kim Lansdown, Director of Strategy and Marketing, Fladgate
Kelby Luther, Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer, Allen Matkins
Michelle Powell, Sr. Manager of Marketing and Business Development, Axinn
Rachel Watson, Director of Business Development, Client Development and Campaigns, Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld
Savannah Kirk, Public Relations and Communications Coordinator, Jones Walker
Stefanie Nastou, Chief Marketing Officer, AMS
To celebrate International Women's Day 2025, we’re proud to present a special two-part edition of CMO Series REPRESENTS, where we spotlight the women at the forefront of driving gender equality in professional services marketing and business development.
We’re privileged to feature insights from influential women who share their personal journeys, the challenges they've faced, and the steps needed to accelerate gender equality in the industry.
In part one, our guests delve into the significance of female representation, the role of authenticity in leadership, and the profound impact women have in shaping change. Through their stories, we explore how women are not only excelling in their roles but also paving the way for future generations.
Thank you to all of our guests for their generous contributions to this conversation:
Emma Sosner, Head of Marketing at Spencer West
Jeanne Hammerstrom, Chief Marketing Officer at Benesch
Kate Fairweather, Director of Marketing & BD at Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle
Lydia Martin, Director of Marketing & BD at Stewarts
Margie Hinckley, Chief Marketing Officer Americas at A&O Shearman
Mercedes Galindez, Head of Marketing at Slaughter & May
Rachel Smith, Director of BD and Marketing at Cripps
Laura Ottley, Chief Marketing Officer at Addleshaw Goddard
Stay tuned to hear more in part two of this special series.
In celebration of Black History Month, we’re revisiting powerful conversations with Black professionals in legal marketing to honor their expertise, contributions, and the lasting impact they've made on the industry.
In this episode of the CMO Series REPRESENTS Podcast, Yasmin Zand chats with Terra Davis, Chief Diversity & Talent Development Officer at Knobbe Martens. Terra joins the series to share her journey, why she started advocating for diversity, equity and inclusion, and the critical role of psychological safety in law firms.
Terra discusses the strategies and programs she is working on to drive change and innovation to create a safe and inclusive workplace where everyone belongs, as well as advice for others looking to promote psychological safety within their firms.
The world of business development and marketing in law firms is constantly changing as professionals work to adapt to new challenges, integrate technology, and redefine the ways to meet client needs.
Today on the CMO Series Podcast, James Barclay is joined by Joe Palermo, Chief Operating Officer at Crowell & Moring, and Greg Fleischmann, Director of Client Development at WilmerHale, to discuss the major shifts that are shaping the legal marketing profession for the next few years.
Joe, Greg and James cover:
- The last 5 years in legal marketing and the biggest shift within the profession
- How the role of marketing is changing in law firms
- The challenges and opportunities of taking on more client-facing roles
- How the role of CMO will potentially evolve in law firms in the next few years
- The key skills necessary for CMOs to thrive in 2025 and beyond
- How integrating AI tools can enhance client services and operational efficiency in legal marketing
- Advice for law firm leaders looking to adapt and equip their marketing and BD functions in the future
In celebration of Black History Month, we're revisiting impactful conversations with Black professionals in legal marketing to honor their expertise, contributions, and the lasting impact they've had on the industry.
In this episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS, Yasmin Zand sits down Lynnette Espy-Williams, an Equity Partner and the Chief Diversity, Equity & Inclusion Officer at Cozen O'Connor. Lynnette, recognized as one of the Top 10 Most Influential Women in Diversity & Inclusion by The Chief Navigators Magazine, joins the series to share her journey as a diverse lawyer and the transformative experiences that have influenced her career.
The conversation explores the influential role of innovative marketing and mentorship and uncovers Lynnette's invaluable insights and practical advice on how to bring allies together to shape a future where inclusivity not only exists but thrives.
In honor of Black History Month, we’re revisiting meaningful conversations with Black professionals in legal marketing to celebrate their expertise, contributions, and the lasting impact they've made on the industry. We hope that these stories inspire others to embrace change and continue to build a more inclusive and equitable future.
In this episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS, Yasmin Zand welcomes a leading role model who is paving the way in professional services marketing by highlighting issues related to color, culture, and leadership in law firms.
Yasmin chats with Diana Lauritson, Senior Marketing and Business Development Manager at Hogan Lovells, to share her lived experiences, the role race has played in her career and how to raise the next generation of marketing leaders.
Diana and Yasmin discuss:
- How Diana came to her career in legal marketing and her current role at Hogan Lovells
- How being a woman of color impacted the way Diana moved forward as a Legal Marketer
- The pressures related to being one of the few women of color in senior marketing roles in law firms
- Programs that supported Diana and recommendations for the next generation of women of color in legal marketing to find support
- Advice for up-and-comers in the industry
Advertising plays a crucial role in the marketing mix and offers law firms a powerful tool to build stronger, more recognisable brands.
In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke speaks with Kim Lansdown, Director of Strategy and Marketing at Fladgate, about how her unique journey from barrister to advertising professional informs her approach to legal marketing.
Kim shares insights on Fladgate’s standout campaign with The Financial Times, the challenges of driving creative marketing within a law firm, and offers valuable advice for others aiming to leverage advertising strategies to strengthen their legal brands.
Kim and Will explore:
- Kim’s unconventional career journey, from barrister to advertising and now heading up strategy and marketing at Fladgate
- The main differences she found coming into a law firm compared to working in advertising, and the immediate things Kim wanted to bring in and start working on
- Fladgate’s campaign with The Financial Times, and how Kim used her advertising skills to deliver it effectively
- How to bring advertising to internal events to promote marketing’s work and vision for the firm
- The key principles or strategies from advertising that law firms could benefit from
- The main challenges to implementing more creative campaigns in law firms and how to overcome them
- Advice for others looking to use advertising strategies to build their law firm brands
To celebrate Black History Month 2025, we’re re-releasing standout insights and expertise shared by Black professionals in the legal space.
In this episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS, Yasmin Zand sits down with Courtney Carter, Director of DEI at Jenner & Block, to unpack her remarkable journey and the profound impact she's making on her firm.
Courtney discusses the firm’s cornerstone DEI initiatives that have proven to develop and advance diverse lawyers, the common missteps and misconceptions that have historically hindered law firms in their DEI journey, as well as practical takeaways for law firm leaders, marketing and business development professionals and clients, alike, to take the industry forward.
What does it really take to become a Rainmaker? Rising to the level of managing partner requires not only legal expertise and experience but, also, the ability to generate revenue and drive the firm’s growth. Building credibility through thought leadership plays a crucial role in this process, creating a direct link between valuable insights and financial success.
In this episode of the CMO Series Rainmakers, Tom Elgar, Co-founder of Passle, is joined by Rohan Massey, Managing Partner at Ropes & Gray in London. Rohan, who leads the firm’s Data, Privacy, and Cybersecurity practice, is nearly a year into his role as Managing Partner. He has built a reputation as a thought leader, leveraging insight-driven content to drive success.
Listen in to explore how thought leadership has become a key component of Rohan’s success, its impact on his career progression, and how he’s professionalised the approach to thought leadership at Ropes & Gray.
Rohan and Tom discuss:
- The moment thought leadership became a key part of Rohan’s strategy for success
- Rohan’s approach to writing thought leadership, and the process he follows
- The importance of building an internal profile versus an external profile on the path to Managing Partner
- The role of thought leadership in driving revenue generation for a law firm
- How to professionalise thought leadership and weave that culture into the fabric of the firm
- The importance of ‘finding your voice’ when creating thought leadership and tips to guide your team
- The one habit that has had the greatest impact on Rohan’s success with thought leadership and how others can adopt it
With podcast listening at a record high, there’s a significant opportunity for law firms to reach their target audience. In episode 166 of the CMO Series Podcast, we dive into the world of podcasting and learn how an effective podcast strategy can support your marketing and business development efforts.
Recorded live in London, Will Eke is joined by Kate Fairweather, Director of Business Development and Marketing at Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle LLP, to discuss the power of podcasts and why law firms should include podcasting in their strategy.
We explore Curtis’s podcast and how it’s supporting their recruitment efforts with the potential to drive business growth within the firm. We’ll also hear more about Kate’s podcast journey, her award-winning ‘Dogs with Jobs’ series which won the Podcast of the Year 2022, and why she’s championing podcasting in legal marketing.
Kate and Will cover:
- Kate’s background in podcasting and broadcasting and what drives her passion
- Why law firms should consider podcasting to reach their market
- The vision and aims of the On Tour with Curtis podcast Kate has managed and hosted
- The progress of the podcast and the results that Curtis is seeing
- Curtis's podcast strategy and new podcast plans for the future
- Advice to other law firms looking to integrate podcasting into their marketing and business development strategies
In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we explore how essential business development is for law firms to build lasting client relationships and how to build a BD-minded firm.
Charles Cousins sits down with Louise Henkel, Director of Business Development and Marketing at Hill Ward Henderson, to discuss the success of their BD training program which Louise has led for the last six years. We’ll explore the impact the BD training program has had both internally and externally, in addition to how Louise has navigated through the challenges she has encountered and the future of BD at Hill Ward Henderson.
Louise and Charles cover:
- Louise’s background prior to working at Hill Ward Henderson and how that shaped her business development approach
- What the BD training program entails and how it has evolved in the last six years
- The importance of proactive business development in legal marketing and how attorneys have come to trust and embrace BD coaching
- The impact the BD training program has had at Hill Ward Henderson, internally and externally, and the success stories of the training program
- The challenges during the early stage of the BD training program and how those were overcome
- The future of BD at Hill Ward Henderson and the initiatives for 2025
- Advice for other BD and marketing leaders looking to implement a successful BD training program
Welcome to the first episode of CMO Series Rainmakers, where we explore how the legal industry’s most influential leaders have leveraged thought leadership to build their brands, drive business growth, and strengthen client relationships.
In each episode, our esteemed guests reveal how they create and harness their unique insights to shape their firms’ success, influence the market, and, ultimately, drive revenue.
In this debut episode, Connor Kinnear sits down with Jeffrey Greenbaum, Managing Partner of Frankfurt Kurnit Klein & Selz, for an insightful conversation recorded live in New York. Jeff shares how his strategic approach to thought leadership helped FKKS’s blog achieve over 720,000 views.
Jeff dives into his strategies for maintaining a consistent and impactful thought leadership presence, how he’s integrated business development into his daily routine, and the successes he’s seen from a well-executed thought leadership strategy.
In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we focus on the evolution of the legal and marketing landscapes and how to successfully use brand identity to drive business development to help firms effectively showcase their lawyers' expertise.
Charles Cousins sits down with Sarah Mitchell, former National Director of Marketing, Communications, and Digital Strategy at a leading Canadian law firm. Sarah shares key insights for how CMOs should prepare for the coming year, and the next 10 years and reviews the last decade in legal marketing.
Sarah and Charles cover:
- The marketing strategies and projects Sarah has delivered over the last 10 years
- The biggest changes in the industry over the last decade, and the ways law firms can be prepared to adapt for the next 10 years
- The evolution of technology and AI and the ways firms can leverage the tools available to differentiate themselves in the market
- The various strategies that will be pertinent moving forward
- The biggest barriers to success for legal marketing for the next 10 years
- Advice for marketing leaders looking to stay ahead of the curve in 2025 and beyond
In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we explored the different ways to drive BD success in any market through building meaningful client relationships, and the range of tools and tactics that can be adapted based on the region and market.
Charles Cousins sits down with William McLaughlin, the Director of Marketing at McNees Wallace & Nurick, to discuss his experiences of BD and marketing in Southeast Asia, and how they compare to his work in the US. William shares his key strategies for driving BD success and ways to nurture client relationships across diverse markets.
William and Charles cover:
- William’s experience in Southeast Asia and how it shaped his BD and marketing approaches at McNees
- The differences and similarities between marketing and BD in Southeast Asia and the US
- How William uses his key marketing and BD strategies from Thailand and adapts them for the US market at McNees
- The process of building meaningful connections and tools that help win business
- The most effective ways to link internal systems for measurable ROI
- Advice for others looking to drive their BD success
In today's fast-moving digital world, having a well-organized MarTech stack helps marketers streamline their work, use data to create personalized campaigns, and achieve efficient, measurable results across various channels.
In this episode of the CMO Series, Yasmin Zand talks with Jaclyn Braga, Director of Marketing and Business Development at Morse, and Jenny Hills, Marketing Operations Manager at Axinn, about the importance of MarTech for law firms. They discuss key tools and the challenges and opportunities that adopting these technologies opens up.
Jaclyn, Jenny and Yasmin Cover:
- Martech stacks and the tools their teams find most useful
- The roadblocks faced in adopting new tech, and how to overcome them
- How has Martech evolved in the legal industry, and which tools had the biggest impact in smaller mid-size firms
- AI’s role in Martech stack, and its influence on team strategy
- How to advocate for Martech upgrades and get buy-in from leadership
- How to measure success when it comes to Martech strategy
- Advice for others looking to optimize their efforts using Martech
In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we explore the unique challenges and opportunities that arise when bringing outside experience into the role of Chief Marketing Officer - particularly within the legal industry.
Alistair Bone sits down with Brendan Delaney, Chief Brand Experience Officer at BAL, to discuss how his background in brand experience and marketing has shaped his approach to legal marketing. Brendan shares the insights he’s gained from transitioning into the CMO role within a law firm, the challenges he’s encountered along the way, and the innovative strategies he’s used to drive success.
Brendan and Ali cover:
- Brendan’s background and his journey to the Chief Brand Experience Officer role at BAL
- How Brendan has leveraged his experience from other industries to innovate within the legal sector
- Examples of fresh ideas Brendan has introduced at BAL and the value they’ve brought to the firm
- The key differences between legal marketing and marketing in other industries
- What law firms should consider when bringing someone from outside the legal industry onto their leadership team
- The benefits of hiring someone with experience outside the legal sector
- Advice for professionals transitioning into senior marketing roles from outside the legal industry
In an industry where clients value the expertise of your professionals, content is a powerful tool to engage, nurture, and convert clients and prospects.
In this episode of the CMO Series Digital Masterclass, Sam Page sits down with Scott Rubenstein, Chief Client Officer of RubyLaw, to explore the critical role of content in law firm marketing, how it drives success, and where firms can enhance their strategies for better results.
Scott and Sam discuss:
- Why content is so important in legal marketing
- What the RubyLaw platform is and how it supports law firms
- The role content plays in the online presence of today's law firms
- Key statistics and usage data that demonstrate the importance of content
- The biggest challenges with succeeding with content
- The biggest wins on the table right now for law firms
- Advice for legal marketers looking to take a more effective approach to content
Law firms are an important part of the local communities they serve. In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins is lucky enough to sit down with Erika Galarneau, Marketing and Business Development Manager at Cades Schutte - Hawaii's largest law firm. Together they delve into a specific campaign that uncovers the importance of incorporating local culture into your marketing efforts.
Erika and Charles Cover:
- The role local culture plays in a firm's marketing efforts and why it should be something marketers have on their radar
- Erika’s career journey and how she arrived at her current role
- Example of incorporating local culture into campaigns and initiatives
- The impact of bringing local culture to that campaign
- Guidelines or points that others should follow to ensure that they are bringing their own local culture into their marketing efforts
- Advice for others who may not have as clear a culture as Hawaii
- Tips for those looking at their current campaigns and thinking about bringing their local culture to them
In this special Thanksgiving edition of the CMO Series Podcast, we take a moment to reflect on the incredible mentors and leaders who have shaped the careers of some of the brightest minds in legal marketing. Our amazing guests share their gratitude for those who’ve guided their journeys, offering valuable insights, lessons, and experiences to inspire the next generation of legal marketing leaders.
At the heart of this episode are the themes of networking and collaboration - our guests emphasize how building and nurturing relationships are key to success. They also discuss the importance of taking ownership of your career, highlighting how this proactive approach can drive growth and open doors.
A huge thank you to all of our wonderful guests for sharing their stories and wisdom:
- Michelle Fountain-Lee - Head of Business Development for the US and Latin America, Herbert Smith Freehills
- Jennifer Stokes - Senior Marketing & Business Development Director, Shipman & Goodwin - Senior Marketing
- Barbara Bell Malin - Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer, Jackson Walker
- Diana Courson - Chief Marketing Officer, Wiley Rein
- Kate Pearch - Chief Strategy Officer, Morris Manning & Martin
- Malcolm Pobjoy - Executive Director, US Market Management, Osborne Clarke
- Kate Boucher - Chief Business Development Officer, Foley Hoag
- Lisa Cooms - Director of Marketing and Business Development, Friedman Kaplan
- Brian Colucci - Chief Business Development & Marketing Officer, Kilpatrick
- Gina Carriuolo - Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer, Hinckley Allen
Wishing you all a very happy Thanksgiving.
In this special episode, we’re joined by a group of incredible leaders from the legal marketing industry who reflect on the mentors and pivotal figures that have influenced their careers.
They share their experiences, offering valuable insights on how embracing bold innovation and building respect and understanding are key to shaping the future of legal marketing.
Featured Guests:
- John Eix - Director of Business Development and Marketing, Crowe Dunlevy
- Amanda Schneider - Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer, Epstein Becker Green
- William McLaughlin - Director of Marketing, McNees Wallace & Nurick
- Maura Brandt - Crowell & Moring, Chief Marketing Officer
- Erika Galarneau - Marketing and Business Development Manager, Cades Schutte
- Azeema Batchelor - Director of Business Development, Wiley Rein
- Kim Kaine - Marketing & Business Development Manager, Hawley Troxell
- Despina Kartson - Chief Marketing Officer, Baker Hostetler
- Lora Wegman- Marketing and Communications Director, Thompson Coburn
- Norm Rubenstein - Managing Director of Client Development, O'Melveny & Myers
- Cynthia Voth - Chief Client Officer, Miller Nash
- Jillian Kanter McKenna - Director of Marketing and Business Development, Verrill Law
- Suzette Bradbury - Director of Practice Group Marketing, Cozen O'Connor
Tune in to this Thanksgiving special for an inspiring conversation filled with lessons on the power of innovation, kindness, and mentorship in legal marketing.
In this special Thanksgiving edition of the CMO Series Podcast, we bring together an inspiring group of legal marketing professionals to reflect on the people and experiences that have shaped their careers. From the mentors who instilled the value of continuous learning to the strategies that help achieve work-life balance, our guests share heartfelt gratitude, invaluable advice, and insights into building resilience and thriving in the industry.
Featured Guests Beth Huffman - Director of Marketing, Nelson Mullins Riley & Scarborough * Angela Petros - Global Chief Marketing Officer, Baker McKenzie * Karen Morton - Chief Marketing Officer, Cleary Gottlieb * Lauren Mistretta - Chief Communications Officer, DLA Piper US * Rachael Schilling - Marketing & Client Services Director, Liscow & Lewis * Carrie Hanna - Chief Strategy Officer, Gunster * Johnyne Garcia - Head of Clients & Markets, Dentons US * Sivan Galinsky - Chief Marketing Officer, Barack Ferrazzano Kirschbaum & Nagelberg * Lisa Simon - Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer, Holland & Hart * Tiffany Zeigler - Chief Marketing Officer, Polsinelli * Heather Morse - Chief Business Development Officer, McGlinchey Stafford*
Thank you to all our guests for sharing their gratitude, wisdom, and experiences.
Stay tuned for part two, where more industry leaders join us to discuss their inspirations and the value of boldness in legal marketing.
Looking beyond the legal marketing industry offers invaluable insights and fresh perspectives that can drive true innovation. In today’s episode of the Passle CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke welcomes Halina Kochanowicz, Chief Commercial Officer at IPH Ltd. Halina brings a wealth of knowledge from her extensive experience leading marketing for top-tier, magic-circle law firms to her current CCO role, where she continues to shape business strategies at the highest level.
In this conversation, we’ll delve into Halina’s unique journey, exploring the key lessons law firm marketers can learn from other industries.
Halina and Will explore:
- Halina’s career journey to Chief Commercial Officer at IPH
- Why BD and marketing in law firms are “broken”, the core issues in legal, and how they differ from challenges in other industries
- How marketing and BD functions in law firms compare to those in other sectors, and what law firms can do to enhance the strategic impact of those functions
- The results of using unconventional methods like sales representation and what law firms can learn from these strategies
- The emerging trends or technologies that will drive change, and how law firms should adapt
- Advice for law firm marketing and BD leaders who want to adopt more disruptive and innovative tactics
This week's special episode of the CMO Series Digital Masterclass was recorded live in London where Charles Cousins sat down with Sophie Bowkett, CMO at Bird & Bird, for an insightful conversation about the firm's remarkable digital transformation journey.
In this episode, Charles and Sophie delve into the story behind Bird & Bird's comprehensive rebrand and the development of a scalable digital infrastructure designed to support their global teams. They discuss the importance of thought leadership, lawyer activation, and self-service tools in crafting a bold market presence.
Sophie shares her experiences and insights on managing large-scale projects, the challenges of implementing behavioural change across a vast network of 1,700 lawyers, and the strategies Bird & Bird employs to ensure their brand resonates with a human-centric approach.
Learn how Bird & Bird is leveraging technology to democratize data, enabling their lawyers to take charge of their personal branding and business development. Discover the synergies between various projects, including the Activator BD and sales training, and how they align with the firm's five-year strategic plan.
This episode is packed with practical insights and real-world examples of how a forward-thinking law firm is navigating the digital landscape to enhance its market presence. Whether you're in the legal industry or interested in digital transformation, this conversation offers valuable takeaways for building a world-class digital presence.
Building a world-class digital presence is often associated with big budgets and large teams. In this episode, we’re exploring how to achieve online success with a leaner approach.
Charlie Knight welcomes Karen Wilcox, former Head of Marketing at Taylor English and previous Marketing Director at Kilpatrick to the CMO Series Digital Masterclass. With a foundation in Big Four consulting, Karen now leads as President of Marketing Speaks, bringing years of expertise in driving effective digital marketing strategies.
Join us as Karen shares her unique insights on how firms can develop and implement impactful digital marketing approaches with a lean team. She’ll offer best practices and actionable advice for firms of all sizes looking to make a big impact with streamlined resources.
Karen and Charlie explore:
- The starting point for implementing a digital strategy with limited resources
- The most important questions you should ask your digital partners to ensure they're the right fit for your team
- The key to building effective relationships with your digital partners
- What success looks like and real-life examples of effective campaigns and initiatives
- Advice for CMOs looking to build a world-class digital presence with a small team
Thought leadership is essential to professional services marketing - it provides firms with a powerful platform to showcase their expertise while delivering value to clients and prospects.
In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we dive into a new approach to thought leadership, one designed to maximize its strategic business impact.
Ed Lovatt sits down with Jeff Berardi, former Chief BD and Marketing Officer at Arnold & Porter, CMO at K&L Gates and Ankura, and now a marketing consultant at Berardi Consulting, to discuss his 7-step model for driving business value through thought leadership.
Jeff and Ed cover:
- Why marketers and BD professionals need to look at thought leadership differently, and why they should sit up and pay attention to this 7-step model
- Jeff’s career journey and the moment he realized thought leadership could be done more effectively
- A run-through of the 7-step model
- Real-life examples that demonstrate the effectiveness of the approach
- Advice for those thinking of tackling thought leadership in this new way
You can read more about Jeff’s 7-step process in this LSSO article.
A firm's brand establishes credibility and attracts clients, while individual attorneys' brands build trust and showcase expertise. Together, they create a synergy that enhances the firm’s reputation and market reach.
In this episode of the CMO Series Digital Masterclass, Charlie Knight is joined by Amanda Schneider, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Epstein Becker Green. With 20 years of law firm leadership experience, Amanda discusses how CMOs can effectively balance integrating a firm’s overall brand strategy with the individual brands of its attorneys online.
Amanda and Charlie Cover:
- How firms balance between their law firm brand and the brands of their individual attorneys
- How firms bring the personal brands of attorneys into the overall strategy
- The role of thought leadership in building personal and legal brands
- How the different practice areas and their brands work within the firm's overall brand
- Measuring the effectiveness of a brand and its impact from both an individual and firm perspective.
- Amanda’s top tip for marketing BD leaders looking to take a more integrated approach to building their online brand
In this special episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we revisit a memorable session from the CMO Series Live held in New York.
Eugene McCormick set the stage for an engaging discussion with Alison Arjoon, the Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Fragomen, and Luke Ferrandino, the Chief Marketing Officer at Paul Weiss. Together, they explored how AI is ushering in a new era of collaboration and transforming the Business Pyramid.
Alison, Luke and Eugene Cover:
- The role of technology and the challenges faced by both traditional and non-traditional law firms
- Strategies for effectively leveraging technology to streamline processes
- How AI contributed to project successes and fostered a new way of collaboration
- The evolving role of AI and its current and future impact
Welcome to the CMO Series Digital Masterclass. A successful website build for any professional services firm begins with a well-crafted RFP. Today, we're joined by Anders Holt, CEO of Novicell, and Chris Eatherton, Head of Digital Marketing at AlixPartners, who will share their expertise on the complexities of website projects and the nuances of crafting a winning RFP from both the agency and client perspectives.
In this episode, we discuss the biggest challenges firms face when drafting an RFP, the importance of involving technical experts early on, and how to approach a project with a clear understanding of both functional and non-functional requirements.
If you're a CMO planning a website overhaul, stay tuned for actionable insights and expert advice on how to set your project up for success from the very start.
While many firms strive to put clients first, today we’re exploring what it truly means to be 'client-shaped' and how the role of the CMO is evolving to instil that mindset across organisations.
No one is better equipped to delve into this topic, in today’s episode, Will Eke is excited to welcome Laura Ottley, Chief Marketing Officer at Addleshaw Goddard, to the CMO Series Podcast.
Laura has played a pivotal role in redefining Addleshaw Goddard’s approach to client engagement. She joins the series to share her leadership journey, the innovative campaigns that have set the firm apart, and discuss how embracing a client-shaped philosophy has transformed both their external impact and internal team culture.
During their conversation, Laura and Will cover:
- Laura’s career path and the steps that led her to the CMO role at Addleshaw Goddard
- Her main priorities upon joining AG in 2020, including the goals and challenges she set out to address from day one
- The moment she recognised the importance of being 'client-shaped' and how she embedded this perspective throughout the firm
- The standout creative campaigns Laura has led and how she ensured they genuinely resonated with clients
- The ripple effects of client-focused initiatives, both in terms of market impact and the influence on internal stakeholders and team dynamics
- Practical advice for fellow CMOs looking to adopt a more client-shaped approach within their own organisations
In this episode of the CMO Series Digital Masterclass, Charlie invites Julie Chodos, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Axinn, and Duncan Shaw, Chief Creative Officer at Living Group to guide us through Axinn’s rebranding journey, fresh off the back of its launch.
Julie, working alongside Duncan, has just unveiled Axinn's new brand and website and joins the series to share her insights on the entire journey, from setting the project's scope to managing change within the firm. Duncan shares his perspective as a partner in the process, revealing some of the secrets to successfully delivering a legal rebrand that aligns with the organization’s goals.
Julie, Duncan and Charlie Cover:
- Julie’s decision to deliver a full rebrand and how it was necessary in building a strong digital presence
- Duncan’s insights on what the discovery phase of a rebrand looks like and how to successfully identify the technical elements required
- How to align a law firm’s brand strategy with its business goals
- How Julie engages partners and manages the change process effectively
- The role thought leadership plays in a law firm rebrand and when should CMOs consider it
- Julie’s plans to leverage the new brand in the firm’s business development efforts
You can check out Axinn’s new brand and website here.
This special episode of the CMO Series Podcast, was recorded live at the Lex Mundi Annual Conference in Toronto where Alistair Bone was joined by Iris Jones, Akerman's Chief Marketing and Client Development Officer.
Iris shares her insights on how fostering proactivity and accountability within the firm can drive positive change and make an impact both inside and outside the firm.
Iris and Ali Cover:
- The importance of standing out for marketers and BD professionals
- Iris’s journey to her current role at Akerman and how she takes accountability for results
- The meaning of positioning yourself to have a positive impact and tips on how to achieve it
- Why marketing and BD need to be better at self-promotion with examples of how to improve
- How to overcome the fear of the unknown and get out of your comfort zone
- Iris’s advice for those looking to take accountability and have an impact
In-person events and conferences still hold significant value for legal marketing and BD teams, but choosing the right events and identifying opportunities is key to maximising their potential.
In this episode of the Passle CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke welcomes John Austin-Brooks, Commercial Manager at Abel + Imray, a leading intellectual property firm, to share how he’s driving business development through events with a small team and why a strategic approach to events can help firms maximise their impact and build lasting client relationships.
John and Will cover:
- How the approach to events at Abel + Imray has evolved since John joined the firm
- Why law firms need a more strategic approach to events to support business development
- How to balance attorneys' requests for BD support with the need for a unified events strategy and align budget and resources
- How to align events with business development goals and what the ideal process looks like from a BD perspective
- Advice for others looking to take a more BD-focused approach to conferences and events
In this special episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we revisit an incredible session at CMO Series Live in New York this Summer.
Kelly Harbour, Chief Business Development Officer at Goulston & Storrs, and Terra Liddell, Chief Marketing Officer at Finnegan teamed up to deliver a best practice session on how to standardize data as part of their marketing and business development strategy.
Together they share their individual approaches to turning data into a strength for their respective firms and how to get started on the journey.
In this special edition of the CMO Series Podcast, host Ali Bone is joined by Joe Green, Chief Innovation Officer, and Monica Rodriguez Kuniyoshi, Chief Marketing Officer of Gunderson Dettmer, for an insightful discussion on integrating generative AI into their team's expertise.
Recorded live at CMO Series Live in New York this summer, the episode delves into how Joe and Monica are leveraging AI, the strategic decisions involved, and how they’re ensuring the human voice of their brand remains central while embracing the power of AI.
Listen in for best practice advice on using generative data for marketing and BD and tips on balancing automation with authenticity.
In this special edition of the CMO Series Podcast we're taking you back to a special moment from our first-ever stateside CMO Series Live Conference held in New York City this past summer.
The day started with an incredible session led by Trish Lilley, now the Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer at Barnes & Thornburg. With over 25 years of experience in legal marketing, Trish has a wealth of knowledge, and she didn’t hold back in sharing it. Her masterclass focused on driving meaningful transformation within firms and offered practical advice for CMOs on how to gain influence both within their teams and across firm leadership.
In this episode of the Passle CMO Series Podcast, we’re thrilled to bring you the full recording of Trish’s session. You'll hear her insights on everything from building stronger relationships with stakeholders to demonstrating executive presence, as well as some fantastic anecdotes from her remarkable career in legal marketing.
Effective collaboration within a firm is built on a foundation of teamwork, communication, and trust. But how can a firm create and sustain this kind of culture? At Buchanan Ingersoll & Rooney, a leadership team led by a CEO and Chairman with 36 years at the firm, and a CMO who joined less than a year ago, is rising to this challenge and excelling in fostering a culture of collaboration.
In this episode of the CMO Series podcast, Eugene McCormick is joined by Jim Newell, Chairman and CEO of Buchanan Ingersoll & Rooney, and Liz Lockett, the firm’s Chief Marketing Officer. Together, they share their insights on building trust and teamwork within firm leadership to drive innovation, growth, and long-term success.
Jim, Liz and Eugene Cover:
- Jim’s journey to becoming Chairman and CEO at Buchanan Ingersoll & Rooney and why collaboration is so crucial to the firm's culture
- How the firm's culture of collaboration and trust manifest in driving marketing and business development efforts
- How to ensure effective communication and alignment between the marketing team and other departments to create cohesive business development strategies
- The key initiatives to deliver the firm’s 5-year strategy
- How Buchanan's collaborative culture attract and retain top talent, and engage them in marketing and business development
- The biggest challenges and opportunities in legal marketing and business development, and how the collaborative leadership approach can help
A professional services firm's website is more than just a brochure; it's the storefront for showcasing the expertise and credibility of its professionals.
In Episode 4 of the CMO Series Digital Masterclass, we dive deep into the essential strategies for building a world-class website that effectively highlights your firm's strengths.
Drawing on insights from industry leaders featured on the CMO Series Podcast, we cover everything from how to kick off your project and engage the right stakeholders to the importance of setting clear goals for success.
We hear insights from Vicky Cunningham, Marketing Director at Efficio Consulting; Sivan Koenig Galinsky, Chief Marketing Officer at BFKN; Mikkel Keller Stubkjær, Head of Development at Novicell UK; and Crossley Sanford, Managing Director of Marketing at Ankura.
Listen to the full discussions featured in this episode, listed below:
CMO Series EP135: Vicky Cunningham of Efficio Consulting on Aligning Content with the Client Journey, Will Eke, Charlotte Knight, Samuel Page (passle.net)
CMO Series EP142 - Sivan Koenig Galinsky of BFKN on Crafting an Award-Winning Website in a Mid-Size Firm, Charles Cousins, Charlotte Knight (passle.net)
Composable - the future of digital infrastructure for professional services firms, Adam Elgar, Samuel Page (passle.net)
Navigating an Enterprise Scale Website Build: Ankura's Story, Alistair Bone, Charlotte Knight (passle.net)
Menopause impacts half the population, yet it remains a taboo subject. In this CMO Series REPRESENTS episode, Yasmin Zand invites Lucie Allen, Managing Director at BARBRI International, and Silvia Van den Bruel, Marketing and BD Director at Hausfeld, to break this silence and urge organizations to acknowledge and adapt to the needs of women experiencing menopausal and perimenopausal symptoms. Together, they introduce the #MenopauseMatters Guide - a resource designed to educate and provide practical advice for firms to break the stigma and better support women through this significant life transition. Lucie, Silvia and Yasmin cover:* Lucie’s driving factors that initiated the #MenopauseMatters movement * How Silvia got involved and the first steps to getting started * How to gain buy-in and trust for the movement to encourage involvement * The experiences and struggles that face women affected by menopause/ perimenopause * An overview of The #MenopauseMatters Guide and how it has been used * What’s next for the campaign and how folks can get involved
Transitioning from CMO to Board-Level Strategist is a key career shift, expanding responsibilities and influence.
In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins welcomes Leor Franks, Chief Business Development & Marketing Officer at Kingsley Napley, to share his insights on his career journey and transition from CMO to a Board-Level Strategist. With nearly 25 years of experience at top firms like Deloitte, EY, and FTI Consulting, Leor shares his insights on taking the next step up in professional services marketing.
Leor and Charles cover:
- Leor’s career journey highlights including his current position at Kingsley Napley
- The evolution of the responsibilities and daily activities from CMO to a strategic board member role
- The most significant learning experiences whilst working as a board-level strategist
- How to approach organisational-wide business planning and how influential a marketing background is to business strategy at the board level
- The most challenging aspects of stepping up to a board role with examples of what the role entails
- Advice to help prepare those who are interested in advancing to a board position
You can catch Leor speaking at the following upcoming events:
26 September: Annual PM Forum Conference
27 September: The Lawyer’s Marketing Leadership Summit
While CMOs shape the marketing strategy and brand alignment for new programs, Business Development Managers (BDMs) have a unique insight into what will drive success when it comes to rolling them out.
In this CMO Series episode, James Barclay invites Karen Wilcox, President of Marketing Speaks, to discuss the crucial role of BDMs in launching new programs and how CMOs can best support them.
Karen and James Cover:
- The role of a BDM in the successful rollout of a new program
- The degree of involvement BDMs should have in the early stages of a program change or rollout of a new initiative
- How can BDMs effectively gauge initial attorney interest to a new program or technology rollout
- Examples of projects where BDMs played a key role in the success of the project
- Implementation hurdles BDMs might face and how can CMOs help manage them
- Key tactics or strategies that help BDMs contribute most effectively
- Advice for a CMO stepping into a change management role
Welcome to Episode 3 of the CMO Series Digital Masterclass where we explore the best strategies from professional services marketers for building a world-class digital presence.
Our latest research found that legal marketing priorities are changing with digital media and thought leadership rising to the top. Today, we're focusing on how thought leadership determines digital success and positions firms at the forefront of their clients' and prospects' minds.
In this episode, we’ll dive into the crucial role that thought leadership plays in enhancing digital visibility and credibility. We’ve gathered top digital advice from previous episodes of the CMO Series Podcast, offering actionable insights and proven techniques to help your firm stand out online.
Be sure to check out the full episodes featured, listed below:
CMO Series EP82 - Judith McKay of McCarthy Tétrault on content and its importance in effective professional services marketing, Charlotte Knight, Charles Cousins (passle.net)
Episode 95 - Angela Pandolfo Roy of Gibbons Law on Content Management: The Linchpin of Legal Marketing & BD, Charlotte Knight, Ed Lovatt (passle.net)
CMO Series EP109 - Alison Janzen of Torkin Manes on Building an Integrated Approach to Content Marketing, Eugene McCormick, Charlotte Knight (passle.net)
CMO Series EP112 - Ashley Horne of Womble Bond Dickinson on Taking a Campaign Approach to Legal Content Marketing, Ed Lovatt, Charlotte Knight (passle.net)
CMO Series EP145 - John Neidecker of Norris McLaughlin on The Evolving Role Of Thought Leadership In Legal Marketing, Charles Cousins, Charlotte Knight, Sonali Badul (passle.net)
Law firm leadership requires a collaborative effort across all functions. Collaboration between lawyers, teams and practices can be pivotal to the success of marketing and business development.
In this episode of the CMO Series, Alistair Bone welcomes Clinton Gary to share his insights on how law firm CMOs and Managing Partners can effectively collaborate.
With 25 years of experience as CMBDO in prominent law and Big 5 firms, Clinton is currently the Founder and Managing Partner of CREDO Consulting and has a focus on collaborative growth.
Clinton and Ali cover:
- The meaning of collaboration and why Managing Partners and CMOs should prioritize it
- Clinton’s journey and experiences that have contributed to his expertise in collaboration
- The critical role of collaboration in marketing and business development
- Key signs or indicators that suggest collaboration needs to be improved within a firm
- Common challenges that firms face, hindering effective collaboration
- Identification of collaboration issues and the practical steps to improve it
- What Managing Partners and CMOs should focus on to enhance collaboration within their firms
Welcome to Episode 2 of the CMO Series Digital Masterclass. Today, we’ll explore how thought leadership can transform your firm’s online brand.
We’ve curated top digital insights from our CMO Series Podcast - links to the full episodes are listed below.
Join us as we delve into essential tools and strategies for professional services marketers, revealing why thought leadership is becoming central to digital success. We'll share success stories from industry leaders who have made their firm's expertise the cornerstone of their online presence.
Check out:
CMO Series EP43 - One firm, your firm - Sophie Bowkett of Bird & Bird on building more human and more effective legal brands, Charlotte Knight, Charles Cousins (passle.net)
CMO Series EP99 - Behind the Scenes of a Legal Rebrand with Erica Roman of Cole Schotz, Charlotte Knight, Charles Cousins (passle.net)
CMO Series Podcast LIVE - Erin Stone Dimry on Positioning Your Firm as the Go-To Choice, Alistair Bone, Charlotte Knight (passle.net)
CMO Series EP131 - Noni Garratt-Wall of Charles Russell Speechlys on The Art Of A Law Firm Rebrand, Will Eke, Charlotte Knight (passle.net)
Law firm budgets are under increasing scrutiny as firms face pressure to maximize efficiency, adapt to changing market conditions, and deliver more value to clients.
For CMOs, understanding and aligning the marketing budget with the firm's broader strategic goals is critical. A well-aligned budget ensures that marketing efforts directly support the firm’s growth objectives, enhance client engagement, and improve ROI for marketing activities.
In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Alistair Bone sits down with Tim Mullane, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Wilson Elser, to understand how to align a firm’s budget with its growth strategy.
Tim and Ali Cover:
- The current trends impacting law firm budgets, and why CMOs should prioritize this issue
- What causes budget misalignment in law firms, and examples of the consequences when it happens
- How marketers can effectively align their budgets with their firm's strategic goals
- How to successfully amend budgets once new priorities are set
- The concept of “winners” in a budget allocation context and how to identify them
- The timeframes law firms should consider when setting budgets and how to evaluate the effectiveness of their strategies
- The most important aspect marketers should consider when ensuring their budget aligns with their strategy
Welcome to the CMO Series Digital Masterclass, an exciting new sub-series of the CMO Series Podcast. This masterclass is designed to help professional services marketers build world-class digital platforms that enhance their firm's online presence and position them as thought leaders.
The CMO Series Digital Masterclass is inspired by Passle’s latest research and the pressing needs of today’s marketing leaders. The goal is to provide actionable insights and best practices for developing robust online platforms that keep your firm front of mind for clients and prospects.
To kick off this series, Charlie Knight, Marketing and Communications Manager is joined by Sam Page, Marketing Director at Passle, to discuss why creating a strong digital presence is vital for firms in today’s market and outline the first steps to getting started.
In this episode, we cover:* What the CMO Series Digital Masterclass is and how it came about * Insights from the CMO Series Legal Leadership Report 2024, revealing the top priorities for CMOs and Managing Partners * The importance of building your firm's online presence through thought leadership to attract clients
Stay ConnectedTo stay in the loop on all upcoming episodes and best practice content, subscribe to the CMO Series Podcast and visit passle.net/digitalmasterclass
In the realm of B2B professional services, advertising is frequently one of the least utilized marketing tools. Earlier this year, Thompson Reuters published their "State of Global Legal Marketing & BD" report, revealing that professional services marketers rated advertising as the least effective marketing tactic, behind PR, social media, and client education.
In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Lee Grunnell, CMO at Womble Bond Dickinson joins Charles Cousins to discuss the importance of advertising in professional services, exploring the common misconceptions and the opportunities for firms.
Lee and Charles cover:
- Why marketers should rethink their priorities when it comes to advertising
- What effective advertising in professional services looks like
- The considerations or constraints that make advertising for a services firm unique in comparison to other industries
- How to approach getting buy-in for advertising efforts at a firm
- The results from advertising at a services firm, and how can marketers measure the success
- Lee’s advice for CMOs thinking about implementing advertising as part of their marketing mix
Authentic, human-centred stories have long been a staple in B2C marketing, but they’re much less common in the world of professional services. As digital media rises, the fast-paced nature of the media landscape and decreasing attention spans mean marketers need to put in extra effort to make a substantial impact.
In this episode of the CMO Series, Charles Cousins welcomes Paul Askew, the Global Strategic Campaigns Manager at Withersworldwide.
Paul discusses the power of storytelling in professional services marketing which is highlighted by their highly successful campaigns, 'Global Rethinkers', 'The Discourse', and 'Defining Moments', created in partnership with the Financial Times.
Paul and Charles cover:
- The importance of storytelling in a firm’s marketing strategy
- How authentic, human stories significantly personalizes marketing, especially in the legal sector
- The journey of shifting brand perception through the use of partnerships and support from partners and clients
- The impact, challenges and the measure of success regarding campaigns and the reason behind the success
- Paul’s insights into the future of personal storytelling in his marketing strategy
Marketing in confidential services comes with distinct challenges and requires a strategic approach to establish and sustain trust.
In this episode of the Passle CMO Series Podcast, Cam Dobinson explores these intricacies with Elizabeth Anscombe, Chief Business Development & Marketing Officer at Nardello & Co.
Lizzie offers her insights on how Nardello & Co. informs its audience about its highly specialized services, the significance of maintaining a client-focused approach despite confidentiality limitations, and the methods employed to establish and maintain trust in a field often enveloped in secrecy.
Lizzie and Cam cover:
- Lizzie’s diverse career background and how it has influenced her approach to marketing in the global investigative space
- The “cloak and dagger” image of the investigation sector and the importance of transparency
- The strategies employed for building and maintaining trust with clients
- The role of consistent service and brand messaging
- Advice for marketers looking to build trust with their clients
In this special edition of the CMO Series Podcast, Natasha Sandamas, Events Marketing Manager, joins the series to reflect on Passle’s first Stateside CMO Series Live event which took place in New York City in June.
Delving into the highlights from the sessions, we hear from an incredible lineup of speakers including Chief Marketing Officers, Chief Operating Officers and General Counsels from the world’s top firms. They joined the day to share their unique perspectives on everything from how to integrate data into your business development strategies and delivering a world-class digital presence, to how to position your firm as the best choice, all under the theme of putting your firm front of mind with clients.
A huge thanks to our fantastic speakers for sharing their insights: Trish Lilley, Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer at Thompson Coburn, Sadie Baron Chief Marketing Officer at Reed Smith, Phill McGowan Global Director of Marketing and Communications at Reed Smith, Kelly Harbour, Chief Business Development Officer at Goulston & Storrs, Terra Liddell, Chief Marketing Officer at Finnegan, Nicole Petrie, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Schulte Roth & Zabel, Monica Rodriguez Kuniyoshi, Chief Marketing Officer at Gunderson Dettmer, Joe Green, Chief Innovation Officer at Gunderson Dettmer, Christa Crane, Chief Client & Strategy Officer, Loeb & Loeb, Julie Chodos, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Axinn, Ralph Allen, Chief Operating Officer at Kelley Drye & Warren, Jennifer Korff, Chief Operating Officer at Brown Rudnick, Annie Westover, Chief Operating Officer at Axinn, Adam Kassoff, Chief Operating Officer at Vinson & Elkins, Luke Ferrandino, Chief Marketing Officer at Paul Weiss, Alison Arjoon, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Fragomen, Deborah Ruffins, Chief Marketing Officer at Perkins Coie, Shade Vaughn, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Akin Gump and Crossley Sanford, Managing Director at Ankura, Brian Rauch, General Counsel at Harvard Maintenance, Julie Aslaksen, General Counsel at Host Hotels, Alex Dimitrief, General Counsel at Sotera Health Company and Lisa Anastos General Counsel at IdeaQuest.
As the landscape of legal services evolves, so does the significance of effective communication strategies.
Today, Eugene McCormick is lucky to welcome Phill McGowan, Global Director of Marketing and Communications at Reed Smith to the CMO Series Podcast to share his insights on the biggest opportunities for legal communications professionals today and reveal his strategies for driving business growth.
Phill joins the series to delve into his background in newspapers and journalism, the evolution of content strategy in legal marketing, and what that means for law firms today.
Phill and Eugene cover:
- Phill’s career and some of the highlights from that journey into legal communications
- The role of communications functions within law firms in adapting to meet today’s environment
- How to integrate communications within the broader context of business development in a legal setting and the challenges of aligning communication efforts with business objectives
- Examples of successful communication strategies that have made a significant impact
- The approaches or platforms that have been effective in enhancing communication and thought leadership at Reed Smith
- Advice for legal communications professionals aiming to align with and drive their firm's BD strategy
Labor attorneys are essential in managing the intricacies of union law, protecting workers' rights, and promoting fair and just labor practices. Carving out a career to represent those without a voice takes true determination and passion.
On this episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS, Julia Howard is lucky to welcome Jessica Caggiano, Partner at Willig, Williams & Davidson who has done just that.
Jessica joins the series to uncover the influences that sparked her journey, and the insights that have shaped her career as a dedicated labor attorney.
Jessica and Julia cover:
- How Jessica’s upbringing influenced her career journey into becoming a labor attorney
- The powerful impact of collective action and the empirical application of it
- Jessica’s career challenges and successes in the continuous battle of fair treatment and recognition of union members
- The importance of self-educating about one’s rights and being aware of the appropriate measures and procedures that can be undertaken to rectify unfair situations
- Advice for aspiring advocates interested in the realm of union law and how to navigate it
Fresh from the COO panel at CMO Series Live in New York, Ralph Allen, Chief Operating Officer of Kelley Drye & Warren, joins the CMO Series Podcast to share his insights on strategically aligning law firm operations with business development to drive profitability.
In this episode, Ralph sits down with Ed Lovatt to delve into the crucial intersection of operations and business development. They discuss strategic decision-making, navigating market competition, fostering client relationships, and leveraging technology. Ralph also shares strategies for firms to effectively grow their top-line revenue while enhancing bottom-line results.
Ralph and Ed cover:
- Ralph’s role as COO and how he works with functions including BD and marketing
- How business development is a tool for expanding and capturing new business in the legal industry
- How to identify which areas to invest in and which to phase out and the key factors in making these decisions
- The operational changes necessary when a firm focuses on premium practice areas
- Effective approaches to leveraging existing client relationships to expand into new practice areas
- How firms can adapt their BD and operational strategies to stay ahead and the opportunities to drive top-line growth
- Advice for business development professionals when it comes to driving profitability and what they should be thinking about
The role of thought leadership in legal marketing is changing. Traditional tactics like rankings and sponsorships are no longer top priorities. The rise of digital is enabling smaller firms to compete more effectively and measure the impact of their marketing.
Today on the CMO Series, Charles Cousins welcomes John Neidecker, Director of Business Development and Marketing at Norris McLaughlin, to reflect on the past quarter-century in the profession, and explore the pivotal role of thought leadership in today's legal market.
John and Charles discuss:
- What legal marketing looked like 25 years ago when John joined the industry
- Who the trailblazers were back then and how they forged the way for the legal marketers today
- What the role of thought leadership in marketing was back then versus now
- The opportunities for law firms now and if there are greater opportunities for smaller firms to compete with the big firms
- What’s becoming less important to legal marketing teams today
- Advice for lawyers and marketing and BD professionals to take advantage of the opportunities presented by digital and thought leadership
The impact of AI in legal marketing and business development is still relatively unknown. While we hear professionals are adopting AI to achieve impressive results, we rarely see examples of successful outputs.
On this episode of the CMO Series, Tracey Whyte, Head of Business Development and Marketing at Piper Alderman, is joining Charles Cousins to share some of the practical applications of AI she has been driving at the firm and the challenges she's overcome on that journey.
Tracey and Charles discuss:
- Why legal marketers and BD professionals should be looking at AI for their roles right now
- How Tracey came to her role at Piper Alderman
- What the early steps towards AI adoption looked like
- What the current AI use across the marketing/BD function looks like and what it is being used for what purpose
- How to construct effective prompts for AI during the writing process
- Advice for others on how to get the most from AI
In this episode of the CMO Series podcast, we explore the evolving dynamics of client relationships within professional services. Join us as Cam Dobinson chats with Nick Andrews, Partner and Head of UK Commercial Marketing at Knight Frank, about the profound changes in relationship-building strategies post-COVID.
Nick shares his insights on the importance of chemistry and trust, the impact of hybrid working, and how firms can effectively build and maintain strong client relationships in the modern era. He also discusses the role of marketing in fostering trust and brand engagement, and the importance of focusing on strategies that make a significant impact.
Discover practical advice on measuring relationship strength, the significance of client feedback, and the critical need for curiosity and focus in marketing efforts. Tune in for an engaging conversation packed with valuable takeaways for professional service marketers.
In our International Women’s Day episodes, we often heard, “women can have it all, just not all at once.” This sentiment highlights the ongoing struggle women face balancing workplace empowerment with significant responsibilities outside of work.
Today on CMO Series REPRESENTS, Alistair Bone welcomes Susan Freeman, the Stevie® Award-winning CEO and Founder of Conscious Inclusion Company, and CEO of Mean Business, to discuss these challenges and give us a sneak peek of the upcoming Empowered Women Event 2024 - #EWE24.
Susan and Ali explore:
- What the Empowered Women Event is all about and when it takes place
- What inspired the Empowered Women Event, and what participants will gain from attending
- Highlights from past events and how they've impacted the attendees and the broader community
- How initiatives like the book club and well retreats contribute to the overall mission of empowering women
- Why "Empowered but Exhausted," seems to resonate deeply with many women in professional services today
- The "Sandwich Generation" and how this phenomenon intersects with the theme of empowerment
- The steps individuals and organizations can take to better support and empower women in positions of leadership, particularly in navigating the challenges of work-life balance
- How listeners can participate in the event and what they will take away from the day
Building a digital presence that meets client expectations and exceeds them while staying within the confines of budget and resources is an intricate art.
On this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins sits down with Sivan Koenig Galinsky, the Chief Marketing Officer at Barack Ferrazzano Kirschbaum & Nagelberg LLP (BFKN), to hear her insights, from resourcing to stakeholder management, on delivering a successful law firm website in a mid-size firm.
Sivan and Charles discuss:
- What the website looked like when Sivan joined BFKN and the key drivers for delivering a new website build
- The starting point for the project and how to identify the right team and talent to take it on
- The key challenges of delivering a brand new website including resources and budget and how to overcome those
- How to choose an internal committee and bring the wider firm on board throughout a website project
- Notable successes since launching the website
- Top tips for others embarking on a law firm website build
Developing a joined-up approach to legal business development is essential for any firm.
On this episode of the CMO Series, Brad Vynalek, Firm President and Executive Committee member, and Jennifer Rupkey, the Director of Business Development at Quarles & Brady LLP, join Ed Lovatt to shed light on the critical nexus between firm leadership and business development.
Together, they illustrate the transformative impact of their collaborative approach, emphasizing its pivotal role in driving overall firm success.
Brad, Jen and Ed discuss:
- The connection and the working dynamic between Brad, Jennifer and the BD function and how that differs from other firms
- The moment in Brad’s career he realized the importance of this cross-function collaboration and connection
- How this working dynamic enhances BD efforts and examples of success
- How this approach has influenced the firm and its culture
- Advice for BD professionals and firm leaders looking to work more harmoniously together
“Delivering value” is a core talking point for all legal marketers, but how much value are firms delivering in their marketing and BD efforts and how can they ensure each client interaction delivers on that promise of value?
Today, Cam Dobinson welcomes Brenton Anderson, Director of Marketing and Business Development at Dentons Australia, to the CMO Series Podcast to dive into what might be the biggest missed opportunity for professional services firms.
Brenton and Cam discuss:
- Why value-led business development is something that firms should consider
- Where the typical firm can do more to deliver value through BD?
- The types of interactions firms and lawyers should aim for in their day-to-day practice
- How to get that first meeting so you can deliver value
- How to create a BD methodology that will have a meaningful impact at scale
- What success looks like when you get it right
- Advice to firms trying to deliver value through their BD
Earlier this month, Alistair Bone joined Erin Stone Dimry, Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer at DLA Piper, on stage at the Legal Marketing Association’s Annual Conference in San Diego.
We’re excited to bring you that conversation in this special episode of the CMO Series Podcast recorded in front of a live audience.
Drawing on our 2023 General Counsel research, Erin and Alistair delve into how marketing teams can align their activities with client expectations. Erin shares the successes and challenges of creating and implementing an effective brand and marketing strategy that differentiates the firm and delivers for its clients.
Erin and Alistair discuss:
- How to shift previously held perceptions of your firm
- How to recognize the gaps in your firm’s marketing and brand strategy
- How to identify the best channels and meet clients where they are
- The impact that investment in your digital presence can have on BD
- Takeaways from case studies
- Advice for others looking to align their marketing with new markets and the client's expectations
In today's professional services marketing landscape, AI is the hottest topic, leaving many marketers pressured to keep pace with the rapid advancements in their firms' AI strategies.
In this episode of the Passle CMO Series Podcast, Cam Dobinson has the privilege of hosting Gina Connell, Chief Marketing Officer at B P Collins, to offer a practical look at navigating the AI journey within a firm.
Join us as we delve into how Gina spearheaded the firm's AI policy, offering insights on collaboration, agility, and fostering firm-wide engagement to ensure the effective use of AI.
Gina and Cam explore:
- How to develop an AI policy, and why marketers should be reviewing their firm's policy
- How to avoid silos and bring the firm together as a whole on the AI journey
- The practical steps to effectively developing and communicating an AI policy
- How to bring the different parts of the firm up to speed on AI and its potential impact
- What the AI journey looks like from here and the biggest opportunity for AI in legal marketing
- Advice for marketers looking to stay ahead of the curve with AI in their firm
From employee engagement to recruitment and retention, there are many benefits to building a successful employee brand.
On this week’s episode of the CMO Series, Vicky Hanks, Head of Marketing at Blake Morgan joins Will Eke to share the key projects she’s delivered to enhance the employee brand across the firm and the importance of effective internal communications.
Vicky and Will discuss:
- The moment in Vicky’s career journey she realised the importance of effective internal communications and employee branding
- How the employee brand has evolved at Blake Morgan and the key drivers for those changes
- The key projects that have helped build employee engagement
- Aligning the internal brand with the external brand and the challenges in doing that
- What success looks like and how the employee brand can support the external marketing and BD efforts
- Advice for others looking to build their employee brand through effective internal communications
Dubbed by The New York Times as “The Prosecutor Who Stared Down Bill Cosby,” and internationally recognized as a leading litigator in the #MeToo Movement, on this very special live recording of the CMO Series REPRESENTS Podcast, Yasmin Zand welcomes Kristen Gibbons Feden, Shareholder at Anapol Weiss.
This special episode recorded at the #FollowFriday Conference on International Women’s Day delves into Kristen’s passion for advocating for abuse and trauma survivors and why she’s focused on harnessing empathy and understanding to support the people she represents.
In today's competitive landscape, fostering diversity, equity, and inclusion isn't just a moral imperative — it's a strategic advantage.
Fresh off the back of our International Women’s Day episodes released on CMO REPRESENTS series, today, we’re shining a spotlight on the crucial importance of BD coaching for women.
Our guest, Deborah Farone, Founder of Farone Advisors, joins Will Eke on the Passle CMO Series Podcast to share her extensive expertise as we discuss the unique challenges women face in honing their BD skills and the transformative impact of tailored coaching programs.
Deborah and Will explore:
- Deborah’s career journey and what led to her current role as Founder of Farone Advisors
- The turning point in Deborah’s career when she recognized the necessity for tailored BD coaching, particularly for women
- The unique obstacles women encounter in honing their BD abilities, and how the current landscape reflects these challenges
- The impact on CMOs, BD leaders, and firms if they don't invest in BD coaching for women
- Success stories of women who have transformed their BD approach as a result of coaching
- Recommendations for organizations seeking to enhance the BD skills of their female employees
Training and developing the next generation of lawyers is a key driver for a firm’s long-term success.
Investing in new talent is often overlooked, but today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Sheenika Gandhi, Chief Marketing Officer at Greenberg Glusker, to understand how she is reimagining business development training, for the future success of their associates and the firm.
Sheenika and Ali discuss:
- Sheenika’s career journey and how she came to be a Chief Marketing Officer
- How she became aware of the need for BD training
- The training culture at Greenberg Glusker including specific training programs and their focus areas
- What success looks like and any examples
- A look into the future of training at Greenberg Glusker
- Advice for other CMOs looking to reimagine their training programs
Mapping the clients’ buying journey is key to successfully aligning content to meet their needs.
Someone with extensive experience across multiple industries in doing just that is Vicky Cunningham, Marketing Director at Efficio Consulting. Vicky joins the CMO Series Podcast today to discuss her approach to aligning content strategy with the client buying journey to drive business growth.
Vicky and Will discuss:
- The importance of mapping the client buying journey and aligning this with content strategy
- How Vicky approaches this at Efficio Consulting
- The barriers to success and how to overcome these
- The key components of driving your content strategy and examples of success
- Advice for others looking to align their content with their client’s buying journey
Transcription:
Will: Welcome to the Passle CMO series podcast where we discuss all things marketing and business development. My name's Will Eke and today we are going to be talking about aligning content with the client journey. Mapping the client's buying journey is really key to successfully aligning content to meet client needs. Someone with extensive experience across multiple industries including law, consulting, and various other areas, is doing just that. And I'm really really happy to have Vicky Cunningham, who's the marketing director at Efficio Consulting, join us today. Vicky is going to discuss her approach and Efficio’s approach to aligning content strategy with the client buying journey to drive business growth. Welcome Vicky, how are we doing?
Vicky: Hi, Will. Thanks for having me. I'm doing very well, happy to be here.
Will: Good stuff. Some people will recognise you and your voice. We were just talking about that from your Freshfield days, but we'll come on to maybe how you got to where you got to on one of the questions today. To start off with- be good to set the scene in terms of your career. What- at what point did you realise the importance of mapping the client buying journey and, and aligning it with you know, a really robust content strategy?
Vicky: Well, I think the seeds of that come from the fact that I started out in a sales route and if you get closer to the coal face, it, you know, it focuses the mind. It's always- I've always had to stop and say, you know, what's a customer or client need first? What is it that, what is it that they want? How do you put yourself in their shoes? I also spent a number of years as a journalist, so you, you know, you get the understanding of storytelling, the importance of storytelling for different audiences and that, you know, takes you right into what do you- what stories do you need to be telling to your potential clients and your existing clients to, you know, to keep them focused, to sort of help them along their buying journey or to, you know, nurture them once they have bought. So it's sort of- it's kind of in my professional DNA, I think from the, you know, the background that I've come up through.
Will: Makes perfect sense, especially, yeah with the journalist background as well-
Vicky: -and part of, you know, part of that route from a marketing point of view, i've also spent time in consumer marketing, and that's very very different clearly to B2B and professional services. So, consumer marketing, you're getting much much closer to your potential customer and again, that teaches you to think customer first, maybe doing much more sort of persona based marketing and B2B tends to approach that differently.
Will: Yeah, and I suppose you- with that you're used to actually having this tangible outcome often with a consumer as well. You can actually link it back sometimes to a transaction type.
Vicky: Yeah, and you know, in professional services, I think people still- marketeers and I've been guilty of this too, still often think of their clients as job titles and the practitioners think of their clients sometimes as job titles and not as humans, which is crazy because, you know, we're in a professional services, it's a people led business, your clients are, you know, they, they are also humans. What are they going through on their journey, you know, in a law firm, and what's the general counsel thinking about? Not, what for us, what's the Chief Procurement Officer thinking about?
Will: You mentioned it there, you know, different target audience, as I said at the start. People that are listening, you know, we often have marketing directors, CMOs, heads of BD, that are currently at law firms. You're not. However, you have been at them in the past and you're quite right, most are targeting in- house counsel. Can you tell us a bit, before I ask the full question, about Efficio Consulting, you did say that you're trying to target procurement, which probably gives us a bit of a hint as to what you guys do.
Vicky: Yeah, we're a specialist consultancy. So all we do, and all we ever have done is procurement and supply chain management and you know, consulting services around that. So that's helping our client organisations to optimise their cost base, maybe improve their internal procurement and supply chain processes, upskill their teams bake in sustainability, and be able to track sustainability through their supply chains. So- but it's all about procurement and supply chain and the human aspects of that as well as the sort of process and technological aspects of that and the sort of hard numbers around that as well.
Will: And with that in mind, I mean, you've alluded to a bit already, how are you approaching, you know, the content strategy at Efficio and how do you define, you know, the client challenges? And I think you, you guys, you work on looking at the website, you've got some nice built out pillars that you might want to talk through if possible.
Vicky: Yeah, so when I joined the business about 2.5 years ago, I think every marketing director at some point likes to sort of do a brand refresh, or a web rebuild. Partly because you come in with a fresh set of eyes and you start taking things to pieces and going is this fit for purpose? Is this doing the job we want it to do? And so, you know, obviously I sort of began that process and we took a look at, you know, we took a look at who we are as a business. And, you know, workshops around where do we sit in terms of how we think our clients see us and what they think, you know, what problems they would look to us to solve for them. But then we did a deep dive and said, okay, if we want to build a good user journey through our website and we want to make sure that we are putting together content which is gonna resonate for our various clients, you know, what's the journey that the client goes through when they have a problem? What is their buying journey? We did a really deep dive in partnership with a number of the consultants in the business and we did a deep dive into the problems that come up most often for our clients around procurement and supply chain. And we, you know, we went right the way down into so what's the conversation that happens in the client organisation when, you know, they realise they don't have the right skills to or the, well they can't have the team size, they want to, you know, deliver an efficient, effective procurement operation or, you know, what are the questions they're asking themselves if they need to reduce their costs of some of the sort of categories that they're buying for their business. And so you go, okay, so if they ask these questions, then what happens next when they've got the answer to that question? And then when they've, you know, what, at what stage might they start to look for some external help to solve that problem and if they do, how do they approach it? And we just went through step by step by step to understand, you know, before they even would look at our website or start having a conversation with us or consume any of our content necessarily, what's happening for them? And so we mapped it in really really solid detail and then we used that as the basis for creating the, you referred before to, the pillars that we have on our website. So we realise that most of our clients challenges fall into five distinct areas and so we, you know, we headline those on our home page, but all of the user journeys through the website are built around those pillars. So if you know if your problem is to do with your, you know, your capability and capacity, you would follow this journey and you would explore the website through that pillar. If you, if your challenges are around ESG or sustainability, you would explore the website through that pillar and so we plan the journey through those sort of- through that lens and through those pillars and then we think about our content in the same way, making sure that the content that gets served up along that journey is particularly relevant to that particular challenge set.
Will: It sounds- what you've achieved there does sound like the holy grail for a lot of marketeers, I suppose, especially at legal firms when they're looking to build their website. So it, and I've, yeah, the website looks great. So well done to you and the team on that. What would you say were the main barriers in terms of success and how have you guys overcome those?
Vicky: I think with any of these projects, look, content creation is an ongoing process. So, you know, we build a user journey through the website and match the content to it, but we have to make sure that we're continuing to stay focused on creating the right kind of content for, you know, for our potential clients and that we're continuing to address what those specific needs are and pain points are that they have. So for us, and you know, this is for every professional services organisation, the practitioners in the business are really really vital to your success. So as you, if you're changing your approach to how you create content and you know how you map that to you know, buying journey, you have to keep working closely with those practitioners who are, they're inputting on content. They might be writing first drafts of it, they might- you might be in, you know, they might be being interviewed to feed into reports, or whatever it might be, but it's, you know, it's a sort of change management process which is, it's never over. And that's to make sure you have to always work really hard to make sure that collaboration with the practitioners is fruitful and that you're talking the same language because for example, in our business, in Efficio, we all run around talking about content, but actually, when marketing is talking about content, we're talking about something different to the content that the consultants are talking about. So they're talking about sort of best practice and ‘know how’ that they gather through their projects and that they collaborate on to share, whereas we're talking about externally facing content. So, you know, there are some, that's just one small example, but when I say talk the same language, you know, make sure you're on the same page. And when you're talking marketing speak, they understand what the purpose of it is and what it is you're trying to achieve. And so, you know, in terms of the barriers that not all consultants are going to be the best placed people to partner with. So you have to find the stakeholders, I think who are commercial and seek out the people who have the strongest understanding of their clients. And I think actually, something where we're probably all guilty of not doing enough of is client listening because we, you know, we sit there and we have these sort of ideation sessions and we will plan content and we'll bring our practitioners into those discussions to make sure that we're focusing in the right places, to make sure that we're aligning with what the business wants to achieve, but oftentimes in this, people don't ask the client, in a formalised way. And I, you know, I know we don't do enough of that and I know in previous roles, we've not done enough of that. But if you can find routes to do that and make sure that when it does happen, it's joined up so that marketing can take those client listening inputs and create actionable insights, you're gonna be onto a winner.
Will: Yeah and it links back to your point about it, it's never finished. There's an evolution isn't there that of a client relationship, which also means, you know, the content that you produce is always evolving as well to meet those needs which makes perfect sense. I mean, you, you've alluded to again, some of the tactics there, but are there any other sort of tactics, tools if you like, channels, that you're using to drive the content strategy, specifically, you know, to support the business development arm as well?
Vicky: Yeah, so we are trying to take a more structured and rigorous approach to the way we partner with our practitioners on content and around the content strategy. So, we have, you know, clearly there's a sort of high level objectives of what it is you're trying to achieve, which is, you know, always gonna be supporting the business growth and the sort of firms, you know, BD priorities. But we need to try and instill some of that client focus thinking into our practitioners and so one of the tools and tactics we're rolling out now is, lawyers, consultants, they are all, they're, you know, they're very keen to share their knowledge and know how and I alluded to this before, it's you know, it's bringing the right people on board and trying to help them to understand what's the purpose of content, what's the job it has to do? And it's not just for you to show that you're really smart. So, we are now encouraging our consultants if they, if they would like to participate in content creation to sort of put forward a content proposal and we've structured it, it's like, think about these things, who it- it's training them in the way that we think about as marketeers and, you know, content marketers, the way we think about content creation, it's like, who's your target audience? What do you want them to take away from this? What's the key message? What's the, so what, and then, you know, the killer question- and it's interesting how often the answer might come back ‘oh, I hadn't thought about that’. If you create this piece of content, if we work with you to write this article or this report, what are you going to do with it as a BD tool? How are you going to activate it? Would you send the link, you know, or the social post to your client? Would you send them a link to the website? Would you use it as a conversation starter? Because if the answer to that is no, then there's no point creating this piece of content. So, that's an important one we're trying to roll out and that's when I talk about the change management being ongoing. That's a big process of, sort of reframing the thinking with the practitioners at the moment. The other thing that we are doing an awful lot of and are trying to sort of fine tune our approach as we go through is more ABM. And that is, you know, we're working very very closely with our BD team to understand where they're focusing, who are their priority verticals or very specific target accounts for both new business and for nurturing existing clients. I think, you know, sometimes you can start focusing too much, you can go too much in one direction or the other, you know, too much into new business or lead generation and forget about all the good people who continue to give you business or you can go too far to, we just care about our core clients and forget about, you know, needing to sort of feed the pipeline at the other end. So, yeah, working with BD to understand where they're trying to focus and create ABM campaigns to sort of facilitate their efforts. So the, you know, the ABM approach is a very important part of what we're doing and coming into that, actually, you asked about, you know, more of the tactics, I think, and it comes back to this client listening piece where we can, if you're not doing a formal client listening process, where we can talk to our consultants to understand more about the questions they're being asked by their clients, right? When you have a conversation, what are they asking you? How do they ask it? What is, how do they frame it? And that helps us sort of do a little bit of an ongoing gap analysis in terms of content because if they're asking questions and we haven't got a content which answers that question, then it's something we should be focusing on. And I almost feel like, yeah, we can't, nobody can do a podcast and talk about tools and tactics at the moment without mentioning AI. And we're not jumping on the bandwagon going ‘Yes! AI is going to write our content for us’, but we are seeing some useful use cases, you know, some judicious use of AI to help maybe speed up a little bit of the copy editing process or making sure that we're creating SEO optimised content briefs, we can use AI to help us with that a little bit. And there's also I think a use case where if you're asking your practitioners to write content, some people have a little bit of a sort of blank, you know, the blank page fear. So we can use AI to maybe give them a framework as a starting point to help them get some words on a page.
Will: A whole bunch of useful information there, I mean the thing that springs to mind quite a lot, but one of the key bits that you've mentioned there and we hear it a lot and we actually try and preach it ourselves is, you know, only write content if it does further a business relationship. And actually, that leads into your account based marketing there because it's like, you know, for your partners, for consultants, for lawyers, for, you know, who for any fee earner, don't be afraid to write content for a single client actually, because it's very very powerful and it's definitely worth doing. It doesn't need to be for the masses necessarily, so yeah, that's a very interesting way of looking at it.
Vicky: Yeah, absolutely agree. It’s that, yeah, when you, it does get down to the ABM I mean, you know, you've got the sort of one too many, the one too few and yes, you can get right down to one to one bespoke content if, you know, you can't be doing that across the board but in where there's a really important focus point, really important target, then absolutely, you can get very very nuanced.
Will: I think it helps then to your point about the blank bit of paper then as well because actually, you know your client really well, so what are their pain points? Let's write something that helps solve them, it works hand in hand. Have you got, on that note, any particular examples of success where those sort of tactics that you've mentioned, have worked well?
Vicky: If I go back to what works really well, I have to go back to the remembering that your clients are people and not job titles and actually when you bring your client into your content creation, you know, we get the highest engagement of any of our content is always when we've got say a video case study or, you know, we interview a client or, you know, we have a podcast series and bringing in, you know, bringing in clients to talk about that. Sometimes it's about telling a general story, and it's sometimes it's a, you know, we might have an academic, but getting people on the podcast to talk about- like this one, right? What are the pain points that other marketeers might have? So, yeah, I can sort of share my insights, it's getting our clients on as podcast guests, talking about the sorts of things that their peers are dealing with. But actually, the podcast is a really great secret BD tool as well. It's not secret, here we are on a podcast, but it is a really effective BD tool. If it is a conversation starter and in somewhere who doesn't like, sort of sharing their insights, so we use it for furthering client conversations as well. So it's, yeah, when you bring people, your clients to life and give them a voice, I think is- we always get success off the back of that.
Will: I don't know what you mean Vicky, and you won't be allowed back on now, you know. the cat's out of the bag. Yeah, no, it's a very good point and clients obviously love talking about what they've done so, yeah, it makes perfect sense.
Vicky: But it's actually about, you know, take that step back, it's about using content generally, proactively for BD, using it as a conversation starter, you know. So I think there's a tendency in professional services organisations for the practitioners to say, ‘oh yeah, it's on the website, that's done now’. No, that's where it starts in some ways. Now use it to talk to your clients, use it as a way to continue a conversation to show that you understand what their, you know, what their pain points are.
Will: And it's also again, you must see this even when you're at a firm that is a bit more targeted in what you do, a niche consultancy as you call it, there's still massive need for collaboration as well, so content can help with that part as well, right? So, ‘oh, I didn't know Efficio did you know that, as well as this part’. You know, we often hear that ‘I didn't realise that you, you know, you do stuff for supply chain as well as you know, the procurement or the environment.
Vicky: Yeah. and we used to, our previous iteration of our website didn't mention supply chain anywhere, even though it's a big chunk of our business. So if you don't tell people about it, how are they to know? But yeah, it's a little bit of, and I saw this in law firms all the time, that people connected with their clients on, you know, in their particular practice area and those clients had no idea about all the other good stuff that you did. Because if your website wasn't telling the story, they weren't sharing content, which they thought would perhaps help that client in other areas of the business.
Will: There's a whole bit of research now that came out just before Christmas from the Harvard Business Review around that in professional services, that’s all about, you know, what makes a rain maker, what makes the most successful consultants, lawyers, and it, they picked out this one profile, that's the activator profile. Actually, one big part of that is that they're proactive in their business development, that another big part is that they collaborate and they actually will push forward other areas of the business to their client. So, yeah, it's, it's the same thing really.
Vicky: Yeah. Spot on.
Will: Just gonna do a quick fire round. What are you listening to, or are you actually going old school and reading at the moment?
Vicky: I am an old school reader. I've never got my head around audio books. I do listen to the odd podcast, so I am, well, I've just literally just finished a book called The Lost Future of Pepperharrow by Natasha Pulley. And it's a sort of second in a series of books. The first one was a Watchmaker of Filigree Street and it's really, it's a magical book and she writes these wonderful sort of fairly convoluted storylines that have, you know, you have to suspend disbelief that makes them a little bit magical. But I like a book that puts you in another time or another country and writers who can be, you know, really evoke those different scenes and she does it beautifully so I've been enjoying that!
Will: Sounds very interesting, I have to make a note of that one. I always try and write down ones I haven't heard of. Second question, what is the one piece of technology that you can't live without.
Vicky: It goes back to reading actually and whilst I'm- I don't think it's old school to read books rather than listen to them, but I couldn't live without my kindle, you know, on the train, travelling, you've got all your books there in one place. Couldn't be without it.
Will: Environmentally friendly as well, my daughter’s loves hers and saves having to, you know, waste all that paper in the end.
Vicky: Yeah, and I'd like to, you know, I'd like to believe that I could live without my phone so I'm sure a lot of people might say their phone, but I'd like to believe I could survive.
Will: Digital detox. What's the one thing that you look forward to every week?
Vicky: Do you know, right now, specifically, this time of year, I would have to say, I look forward to the prospect of it still being light in the evenings and getting home and feeling like you've still got some runway in the day rather than getting in and hunkering down and that’s very seasonal, but that's where I am right now.
Will: Looking forward to Spring. Where is, where's your favourite place to visit and why?
Vicky: I have to say Portugal and because it has, you can tell, I like light, I just talked about having light in the evenings, Portugal has fantastic light and I work from there sometimes and it's great just to be able to sort of look out, see something different to the sort of low gray clouds of the UK, got beautiful countryside and a lot of lovely lovely coastline and great beaches for water sports. I like a little bit of surfing and paddle boarding and kayaking and it's, you’re surrounded by great great water to do that.
Will: And great food as well of course and I didn't expect you to say somewhere in the winter that you'd go, I did expect a summer destination from your-
Vicky: -yeah, I go to Portugal in the winter too because it's still, you know, you get the, you get a milder climate and lighter in the evenings.
Will: Yeah, the light, you see. What's the one habit you have that you think would help others?
Vicky: I would say, and I have to remind myself to do this often, is carve out thinking time. Now we're all very very busy and you're running from meeting to meeting and project to project and deliverable, to deliverable and, you know, if you don't give yourself the headspace and actually put it in your calendar, just a block of time where you can just think, let your thoughts wander, problem solve, you, if you don't do that, you're just gonna, you know, squash your creativity and your problem solving ability. So, that would be my top tip.
Will: Great tip, yeah, bit of reflection, always good. We're at the end of our client journey in terms of the podcast amazingly. What's your sort of one piece of advice? I know it's hard to whittle it down to one but what would you say to other marketers, your peers looking to align their content with clients buying journeys?
Vicky: It comes back to you know, mapping the journey a little bit. It's understanding that for any professional services buying process, there are multiple audiences. You've got, there's gonna be one person who signs off on the piece of work, signs off on the project, but that person is not necessarily the person who's executing on the work. And there are going to be a whole slew of influencers in that buying journey as well. So it's understanding that you've got multiple audiences with all very, you know, they might say in totally different functions, they've got very different interests and you need to keep communicating with them. And it's, you know, on that basis, it's that B2B buying journey is not linear, right? You, there are all these sort of, you know, the old diagrams of your really, you know, here's a sales funnel ABCD and something I saw a few years ago, which I'm sure lots of lots of your listeners will be familiar with, Gartner published something called the asynchronous buyer journey and it is a very convoluted diagram of all the different people that might get involved in a buying decision and what you know, what are the problems they're solving at any particular time. And yeah, Gartner call it a long hard slog and it is so when you're creating content and you're creating a content strategy, you need to bear in mind that it's not linear. You have a lot of different stakeholders in that buying decision and your content needs to be speaking to them.
Will: Brilliant, really useful. Vicky, thank you so much for giving us your time and talking through how you guys have done it so successfully in terms of aligning that content with the client journey, some really useful tips there for our listeners. Thank you so much.
Vicky: Thanks Will. Thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure.
The landscape for professional services business development is changing. Clients are less loyal to firms and individual fee earners, and strong relationships are no longer enough to guarantee repeat business.
These are just some of the insights that have recently come out of research conducted by DCM Insights, published in the Harvard Business Review.
Today, on this special episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke welcomes founding partner of DCM Insights, Matthew Dixon, to discuss the highlights of the study and delve into the key characteristics that today’s most successful rainmakers all have in common.
Matt and Will discuss:
- How the research came about and the impetus behind it
- The key findings from the study and the most surprising results
- The 5 business development profiles of lawyers the research revealed
- The characteristics that set the ‘Activator’ profile apart
- What lawyers can work on to develop some of the key ‘Activator’ attributes
- Advice for BD managers looking to develop the business development skills of their lawyers
This year we’re celebrating International Women’s Day by shining a light on the experiences of incredible women across the industry. In this second installment of Inspiring Inclusion, we uncover the personal stories of our guests and the inspirational people who have influenced their journeys.
From creating safe spaces to the power of putting words into action, this incredible lineup share their insights and perspectives on the role of firms and their leaders in inspiring inclusion.
We’re so grateful to hear from Julie Chodos, Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer at Axinn, Veltrop & Harkrider, Sandria Lherisse, Director of Marketing and Business Development at Groom Law Group, Emily McKeown, Business Development Director at Godfrey and Kahn, Sarah Short, Business Development & Marketing Manager at McLennan Ross, Angela Quinn, Chief Client Officer at Husch Blackwell, Christie Cáceres, Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer at Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton, Sarah Kempsey, Chief Marketing Officer at Montgomery McCracken Walker & Rhoads, Laura Long, Chief Operating Officer and Chief Finance Officer at Hanson Bridgett, Liz Bigham, Chief Marketing Officer at Burford Capital, Marianne Talbot, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Bailey & Glasser, LLP, Gina Connell, Chief Marketing Officer at BP Collins, Diana Courson, Chief Marketing Officer at Wiley Rein, Nicole Miles, Chief Marketing Officer at Dentons, and Despina Kartson, Chief Marketing Officer at Baker Hostetler.
To celebrate Women’s History Month and International Women’s Day 2024, we invite you to join us as we talk with marketing and business development leaders from the world’s best law and professional services firms.
This special episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS shines a light on leaders as they share their personal stories, best practices and the inspirational people who have influenced their career journeys and inspired inclusion in their firms.
Join us for part one of this special series, as we uncover the transformative power of recognition and role modelling in fostering a culture of diversity and inclusion.
First up, we speak with Deborah Fleming, Marketing and Business Development Director at Walker Morris, Alison Reynolds, Digital Marketing Director at Vinson & Elkins, Julie McConnell, Associate Director of Business Development for Global Industry Groups at White & Case, Liz Gooch, Chief Business Development & Marketing Officer at McDermott Will & Emery, Vicky Hanks, Head of Marketing at Blake Morgan, Lisa Azzuolo, Chief Marketing Officer, Bennett Jones, Evette Pottinger, Head of Marketing at AA Thornton, Sheenika Gandhi, Chief Marketing Officer at Greenberg Glusker, Gemma Vaites, Director of Business Development and Marketing at Capsticks, Karen Snell, Chief Business Development & Marketing Officer at Kennedys, Naomi Butson, Corporate Communications Manager at Marks & Clerk, Vicky Elliott, Group Head of BD & Marketing at Memery Crystal and Rosenblatt Law Firms, Deborah Farone, CEO of Farone Advisors, Jean-Marie Campbell, Head of Client Development at Baker McKenzie, Cynthia Howard, Chief Marketing Officer at Greenspoon Marder and Lora Wegman, Marketing Director at Thompson Coburn.
For any seasoned marketing and BD professional, it can be tempting to make the move into the world of consulting and set up as a sole trader.
While there are rewards to be reaped, there are also many factors to consider before you take the plunge. Today, Will Eke has the pleasure of sitting down with someone who has successfully made the leap.
Susanne Pugsley, Founder, Managing Director and Consultant at Pugsley Sidwell Business Development, joins the CMO Series Podcast to share the highs and the lows and what it really takes to become a successful Marketing & BD Consultant in the professional services industry.
Susanne and Will discuss:
- Susanne’s career journey and how she came to be a Marketing and BD Consultant
- The main challenges faced when first set up as a sole trader
- The most interesting or enlightening aspects of being a consultant compared to being in-house in law firms
- How to go about setting a price structure and justifying your value
- The appetite for business development support
- The dos and don’ts when working with law firms
- Advice for others looking to set up as a Marketing & BD Consultant
Across the legal industry, firms are seeing the increasing need for a professional and high-performing business development function.
Today on the CMO Series Podcast, Cam Dobinson is joined by Hugo Peña, Director of Business Development at Gonzalez Calvillo, to discuss the change he has witnessed throughout his career and what the formalization of legal BD means for firms and business development professionals.
Hugo and Cam discuss:
- What "formalizing legal BD" means and why it is something that those in BD & marketing roles should be aware of
- How this trend is playing out differently in Latin America and what can others learn from what is happening in the industry
- The ideal role and structure of BD teams in a modern firm and how they are organized
- The distinction between marketing and BD as well as lawyers and BD
- Key challenges or focus points that have arisen as part of the formalization of BD
- Advice for aspiring BD leaders looking to formalize their BD approach
Ensuring that clients align with a firm's values is vital for a successful legal rebrand. Actively listening to clients, crafting compelling brand narratives, and fostering a cohesive firm culture, all contribute to a brand that resonates and reflects a firm’s long-term strategic direction.
Today, Will Eke has the pleasure of speaking with Noni Garratt-Wall, Head of Marketing at Charles Russell Speechlys, about her journey through the rebranding process as she joins the CMO Series Podcast.
Will and Noni discuss:
- The reasons behind the rebrand and how the process began
- The importance of timing and the impact on the success of the project
- The key starting points of the rebrand, and the core messages that were essential to the new brand narrative and positioning
- The main challenges or roadblocks along the journey
- How to get buy-in from the partnership and manage the feedback process
- How to launch the brand internally and embed it across the firm
- Advice for any legal marketers embarking on a rebrand
Developing an effective bid strategy is key to the success of any legal business development function, yet the process often goes into a black box and isn’t fully leveraged by firm leaders.
On this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Deborah Fleming, Marketing & Business Development Director at Walker Morris, to discuss the critical role of a winning bid strategy and its impact on marketing and BD.
Deborah and Will explore:
- Deborah’s career journey to her current role at Walker Morris
- How bid experience can set you up for success in legal BD and the transferable skills it can offer
- What the bid process looks like end-to-end
- What success looks like when working on a winning bid strategy
- How to get lawyers and other firm members on board with the approach
- Walker Morris’s newly launched website for GCs, and how it came about
- What the landscape looks like for bids and where Deborah sees it going in the future
- Advice for marketing leaders looking to create a winning bid strategy and advice for those considering a move into bids
The role of Communications is the linchpin of effectively managing a law firm’s brand and reputation, not to mention being a key player in the development and success of a firm’s culture.
Today, Will Eke is lucky to welcome Allan Schoenberg, who is celebrating 3 years as Chief Communications Officer at Vinson & Elkins, to the CMO Series Podcast to discuss his unique career journey, and the pivotal role communications plays in today’s firms.
Allan and Will discuss:
- Allan’s career journey to his current role as Chief Communications Officer at Vinson & Elkins
- The work dynamic he has with the Chief Business Development Officer and Chief Innovation Officer and the key to working together successfully
- How the role of Communications in law firms is evolving, and how the landscape has changed
- The key projects Allan wanted to get started on when he joined the firm
- How to demonstrate the value you're bringing through Communications to the managing partners and wider firm
- The greatest achievements in the role so far
- Advice for Communications professionals working within law firms
While remote and hybrid working has become the norm for many, establishing real human connections can be a challenge. Creating a culture of meaningful connection and collaboration in a law firm requires intention.
Eugene McCormick is lucky to welcome someone who has not only created a culture of human connection within the legal marketing and BD team, but across the entire firm and multiple geographies. Melodie Tilley, Chief Client Development Officer at FordHarrison, joins the CMO Series Podcast to share her insights on how to do it effectively.
Melodie and Eugene discuss:
- The point in Melodie’s career she realized the importance of human connection and creating a culture that enables that to happen
- How to successfully run internal and external events that build connections and collaboration
- The challenges and barriers to success in getting those events off the ground
- How physical events align with content strategy and other marketing and BD activities
- How coaching programs are helping foster human connections across the business
- The impact on the marketing team and the wider firm
- Advice for other marketing and BD leaders looking to create more opportunities for human connection in their firm
On this episode of the CMO Series REPRESENTS Podcast, Yasmin Zand is lucky to sit down with Terra Davis, Chief Diversity & Talent Development Officer at Knobbe Martens. Terra joins the series to share her journey, why she started advocating for diversity, equity and inclusion, and the critical role of psychological safety in law firms.
Terra discusses the strategies and programs she is working on to drive change and innovation to create a safe and inclusive workplace where everyone belongs, as well as advice for others looking to promote psychological safety within their firms.
The Business Development function is becoming more professional and more valued by services firms, but there is still a need to modernise and bring global teams together to develop best practice approaches.
On today’s CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins welcomes Karen Snell, Chief Business Development & Marketing Officer at Kennedys to discuss how she and her team are becoming more effective as a modern global BD function.
Karen and Charles discuss:
- Why modernising and globalising a BD function is something Marketing & BD leaders should be thinking about
- How Karen came to her role at Kennedys, and when she realised that modernising and globalising the function was needed
- How to decide the priorities and what the focus is at this stage of the project
- The approach for incorporating data and client feedback
- How to ensure consistency and best practice across global regions that is recognisable across the firm
- What success looks like for the next 2-5 years
- Advice for marketing leaders wondering how they can build a more modern and effective BD function
Every law firm is at a different stage of professionalizing its approach to business development. Today, Will Eke has the pleasure of talking to Nicole Miles the Chief Clients & Markets Officer for Dentons Canada Region, to find out what it takes to build an effective, globally-minded approach to legal business development.
Nicole and Will discuss:
- The importance of BD in today’s firms and what is driving that
- How Nicole came to her role at Dentons and how the role and approach to Legal Marketing and Business Development have progressed throughout that career journey
- Denton’s Global Growth Program and the goals for that initiative
- The biggest changes that clients and firms need to make to see the value of marketing and business development
- How to tailor the BD approach to suit a unique structure and the opportunities and challenges that arise from that
- Advice for marketing leaders wondering how they can build a more modern and effective BD function
In a people-driven business like a law firm, talent isn't just important—it's the linchpin for success. In this episode of the CMO Series, Eugene McCormick sits down with Sona Spencer, Chief Legal Talent Officer at Troutman Pepper, to explore her crucial role as a talent advocate and how talent becomes the driving force behind the firm's commercial achievements.
Sona and Eugene discuss:
- How Sona came to her role at Troutman Pepper and the moment in her journey she realised how critical talent was to the success of the firm
- The scope of Sona’s role as Chief Legal Talent Officer and how it connects to other functions such as HR
- The main challenges facing talent within law firms and the key considerations including DEI and generational differences
- How to go about building a strategy for talent that will lead to success for the firm and its people
- How the recent merger of the firm affects Sona’s role in the short and medium-term
- The essential tools and skills of a talent officer
- Advice for others looking to advocate for and unlock the potential of the talent at their firm
Marketers and Business Development professionals are crucial to the success of a law firm's strategy, yet for many, the way firms create their strategy remains a mystery.
On this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Alistair Bone welcomes Brie Leung, Chief Strategy Officer at Much Shelist, to help demystify the strategic planning process and discuss the role of a Chief Strategy Officer in designing and executing an effective law firm strategy.
Brie and Ali discuss:
- How a law firm strategy happens and the steps to creating one
- How Brie came to her role as Chief Strategy Officer, and the moment she realized she was able to add real value to a firm
- The ‘design process’ and why Brie refers to it in that way
- The definition of an effective strategy
- How to start implementing a strategic plan
- The process of keeping to the plan in the medium to long term
- How to tell if you are successful with a strategic plan
- Advice for those trying to improve the way their firm designs and executes a strategy
The Diversity, Equity and Inclusion landscape is ever-changing, but there is one critical aspect that is often overlooked - accessibility.
On this episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS, we are honoured to speak with Tim Dixon, Head of IT Architecture at Intertek, who has expertise in driving business value through Enterprise Architecture and a deep personal commitment to advocating for accessibility, particularly for people living with sight loss.
Tim joins the series to share his sight loss journey, discuss the opportunities for marketers to solve the challenges he has experienced first-hand, and offer his guidance for those looking to up their accessibility game.
The pursuit of an equitable and inclusive workplace is high on the agenda for most firms. Today, we shine a spotlight on Baker Donelson, a firm committed to redefining industry standards with its Women’s Initiative program.
Yasmin Zand has the honor of welcoming Danielle Smith, the Women's Initiative Manager at Baker Donelson to the series to share her personal experiences that have fueled her commitment to fostering diversity and inclusion.
Join us as we take a deep dive into the innovative programs and progressive family policies implemented by Baker Donelson, exploring how they are breaking new ground and setting a powerful example for the legal profession.
On our recent CMO Series Webinar Will Eke was delighted to be joined by Michael Rynowecer, President of BTI Consulting Group to delve into their insights on CMO mobility and the opportunities for law firms and marketers in today’s climate.
A summary of the session, along with the video recording, is available here.
During the Webinar, Michael and Will explored:
- The background to BTI’s research on CMOs
- The ‘stand out’ findings AND the current state of play for CMOs in the legal industry
- The most surprising insights
- The key differences between US and UK markets
- The reaction from CMOs who have seen the research
- The impact for CMOs, from their careers to their day-to-day
- What law firms should be doing differently to retain their talent
- The main opportunities for CMOs in today's market
Legal business development has its best practices, yet every firm is different. An effective approach to BD is one that fits the firm, its people, and its clientele.
Today on the CMO Series Podcast Cam Dobinson is lucky enough to sit down with Emily McKeown, Business Development Director at Godfrey & Kahn to talk about how to build an authentic and effective approach to Business Development that fits your market and people.
Emily and Cam explore:
- What an effective Business Development approach is and why it should fit the clients and the firm
- Emily’s journey to her current role
- How to ensure that Business Development happens in a way that clients respond to positively
- How the firm engages in its own Business Development, and how it tunes the approach to do that
- The conflict between what clients expect from Business Development and what the firm is able to deliver
- Managing the challenge of scale with the approach to Business Development
- How to measure and report on success when it comes to Business Development
- Advice for those trying to build a more authentic and effective Business Development capability in their firm
Earlier this month, we were lucky enough to be invited to LMA Southeast's Annual Conference. What better way to join in the spirit of LMA and drive the knowledge sharing that makes it such a powerful network than bringing a live episode of our own Passle CMO Series Podcast.
This episode of the podcast is brought to you live from that conference and we've chosen a special topic and guest for this CMO Series first.
Join Eleanor Smith, Chief Client Officer at Barnes & Thornburg and Alistair Bone, Vice President at Passle as they take a deep dive into moving your marketing from transactional to strategic.
They cover the key elements of building a more valuable and valued marketing career:
- Being proactive in positioning the firm and its attorneys
- Understanding your clients and communicating challenging concepts to the market
- Using data to drive better outcomes and position marketing as a strategic advisor
Join us as we celebrate this Thanksgiving season with our wonderful CMO Series community.
We’re lucky to be joined by some of the world’s top Marketing and Business Development leaders in the legal industry. From the mentors and leadership to peers, networks, and loved ones, we hear about all the influential people who have supported our guests on their career journeys as they share their gratitude on this very special episode.
Thank you to all of our illustrious guests for coming on board: Alison Swenton Arjoon, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Fragomen, Alison Janzen, Director of Marketing and Business Development at Torkin Manes, Andrew Laver, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Porzio, Bromberg & Newman, Courtney Beauzile, Head of Marketing, Business Development and Communications at Robins Kaplan, Courtney Carter, Director of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at Jenner & Block, Dawn Longfield, Chief Marketing Officer at Davis+Gilbert, Emily McKeown, Business Development Director at Godfrey & Khan, Emily Rogers, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Norton Rose Fulbright, Erica Roman, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Cole Schotz, Jay Linder, Director of Communications at Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft, JeanMarie Campbell, Head of Client Development for North America at Baker McKenzie, Jessica Grayson, Director of Practice Management & Lateral Growth at Stradley Ronon, John Eix, Director of Marketing and Business Development at Crowe & Dunlevy, Julie Chodos, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Axinn, Justin Portaz, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Jenner & Block, Maggie Watkins, Founder of Maggie T. Watkins Consulting, Terra Davis, Chief Diversity & Talent Development Officer at Knobbe Martens, Tom Helm, Chief Marketing Officer at Smith Gambrell Russell, and Trish Lilley, Chief Marketing Officer at Thompson Coburn.
From all of us here at Passle, have a very happy Thanksgiving!
The path in legal marketing and business development is diverse, and shaped by the size, culture, and ambitions of the firm.
Today on the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins has the privilege of talking to an experienced professional who is bringing a wealth of marketing and BD expertise from various professional service backgrounds to a regional firm. We welcome John Eix, the Director of Marketing and Business Development at Crowe & Dunlevy, to the series to share his journey and insights on making an instant impact in a regional law firm.
John and Charles explore:
- John’s career journey to his role now at Crowe & Dunlevy
- The first priority and the instant impact projects John’s working on now at the firm
- The differences between working in a mid-size regional firm compared to the larger firms, and how to leverage your team and resources to compete
- The team approach and examples of how that has made an impact from a business development perspective
- What’s next for Crowe & Dunlevy to generate more quick wins and successes
- Advice for marketers and BD Professionals climbing the ladder on how to make an instant impact in their role
In the latest episode of the CMO Series REPRESENTS Podcast, we delve into the critical mission of creating a safe and supportive environment for nurturing talent, a top priority for many firms. However, the task of devising effective strategies to foster a culture of allyship and empower diverse lawyers to achieve success is more challenging than it may seem.
Join us as Yasmin Zand welcomes Lynnette Espy-Williams, an Equity Partner and the Chief Diversity Officer at Cozen O'Connor to CMO Series REPRESENTS. Lynnette, recently named one of the Top 10 Most Influential Women in Diversity & Inclusion by The Chief Navigators Magazine, joins the series to share her personal journey as a diverse lawyer and the transformative experiences that have influenced her career.
During this episode, we explore the influential role of innovative marketing and mentorship while delving into Lynnette's invaluable insights and practical advice on how to bring allies together to shape a future where inclusivity not only exists but thrives.
In the changing landscape of legal marketing and business development, the importance of a growth mindset cannot be overstated.
This episode of the CMO Series Podcast brings you a conversation with Emily Rogers, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Norton Rose Fulbright US, as she shares her unique journey to becoming a CMBDO. Emily sits down with Will Eke to discuss the transformative power of cultivating a growth mindset, as well as a strong team culture, and its far-reaching impact on retention and the overall success of the firm.
Emily and Will explore:
- Emily’s journey to her current role as CMO at Norton Rose
- The moment Emily realized the importance of a growth mindset
- How the approach translates to the team and how to go about instilling that in the firm’s culture
- Key activities and programs that help drive that growth mindset
- The impact on recruitment and employee retention, and across the wider firm
- Managing a multigenerational workforce and the challenges to building a great team culture
- Advice for marketing and BD leaders looking to instill a growth mindset within their team
The transition to CMO is a pivotal moment and offers the opportunity to drive growth, develop teams, and lead change. On the flip side, taking that step up can also uncover vulnerabilities and requires a level of awareness and intentionality that is central to successful leadership.
On today’s episode of the CMO Series, Eugene McCormick sits down with Tom Helm, Chief Marketing Officer at Smith Gambrell Russell to delve into the learning and approaches Tom has taken in his role and advice for others taking on the mantle of CMO.
Tom and Eugene discuss:
- Tom’s journey to his current role as CMO at Smith Gambrell Russell
- The main priorities in the first 12 months in post, and how they were approached
- The most challenging part of the journey so far
- The changes and different approaches Tom has taken in his role compared to previous roles
- What success looks like if everything goes to plan
- The next big change on the horizon
- Advice for professionals taking the step up to CMO, and those looking to take a more intentional approach to leadership
On this special episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we hear from Mikkel Keller Stubkjær, Head of Development at Novicell UK who joined our recent CMO Series Webinar to uncover the world of composable architecture and the benefits to professional service firms.
Mikkel shares fascinating insights including:
- The differences between composable architecture and the traditional monolithic approach.
- How composable architecture can transform your website development and operations and make you stand out in the crowd.
- How harnessing composable architecture can help achieve marketing objectives and enhance the client experience.
Diversity Equity and Inclusion are top of the agenda for many law firms, but there's no silver bullet to effectively implementing programs and strategies that drive meaningful change.
Today on CMO Series REPRESENTS, Yasmin Zand is fortunate to sit down with Courtney Carter, Director of DEI at Jenner & Block, to unpack her remarkable journey and the profound impact she's making across her firm.
Courtney discusses the firm’s cornerstone DEI initiatives that have proven to develop and advance diverse lawyers, the common missteps and misconceptions that have historically hindered law firms in their DEI journey as well as practical takeaways for law firm leaders, marketing and business development professionals and clients, alike, to take the industry forward.
Establishing a culture of trust within a marketing function, and across the wider firm, is arguably one of the most important roles of a legal CMO.
Today on the Passle CMO Series Podcast, Ed Lovatt is lucky to welcome Justin Portaz, Chief Marketing Officer at Jenner & Block who has curated a powerhouse marketing team over the past three years.
Justin joins the series to share his journey so far and how he’s building an agile marketing team that thrives in today's landscape.
Justin and Ed discuss:
- How Justin approached team building during the uncertain times of COVID-19
- The role that trust from firm management plays in the team-building process
- How to ensure you bring the right people in to the team
- How to foster collaboration between marketing and other departments across the firm
- The importance of partnering with the COO during the process and why that was pivotal to building trust across the firm
- How collaborative efforts drive overall business success
- Advice for Marketing leaders looking to build trust within their team and the wider firm
Business development has become a central role for ambitious law firms, regardless of their size. Today on the Passle CMO Series Podcast, Ed Lovatt is lucky to chat with Andrew Laver, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Porzio and 2023 LMA Treasurer, to discuss his experience in building out a successful BD-focused marketing team.
Andrew shares insights on everything from recruitment, to shaping culture and how he’s bringing lessons from AmLaw 100 and 200 firms to drive growth in a super regional business.
Andrew and Ed discuss:
- Andrew’s role, three months in, at Porzio and the main differences between his previous firms and where he is now
- The key challenges Andrew is facing right now
- Why integrating a business development facet of the marketing team so important for the firm’s growth
- The opportunities in a super regional firm from a BD perspective
- The key BD initiatives or approaches Andrew is looking to implement at Porzio
- The goals for the next 6, 12, 18 months
- Advice for marketing and BD leaders looking to integrate a culture of BD in their firm
- Where folks can find Andrew at the upcoming LMA conferences
Perceived resistance from clients and a strong focus on billable hours could explain why law firms have been slower to adopt client listening programs. Today, we’ll explore the valuable lessons firms can take from a client's perspective to successfully implement client listening and enhance the overall experience.
Will Eke is lucky to welcome JeanMarie Campbell, Regional CMO and Head of Client Development for North America at Baker McKenzie, to discuss her remarkable career journey and the pivotal moment she recognized the crucial role of client listening in law firms.
JeanMarie uncovers how her experiences outside of legal influenced the client listening programs at Baker McKenzie, shedding light on the strategies employed to establish a culture of exceptional client service.
Client feedback is a cornerstone of improving legal services and fostering growth. In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we delve into how law firms can adopt these best practices.
Alistair Bone is joined by Maggie Watkins, Founder of Maggie T. Watkins Consulting, and expert in crafting and implementing effective Client Feedback programs. Together, they unpack the critical role of client feedback in strengthening relationships and enhancing the overall success of law firms.
Maggie shares invaluable insights on adapting practices from outside the legal sphere to optimize the client experience and drive business development opportunities for law firms.
Maggie and Ali explore:
- The moment in Maggie’s career she realised the importance of client feedback
- What firms can learn from outside of the legal industry when developing client feedback programs
- How to introduce Client Feedback programs to firms and explain their value
- The key steps to launching a Client Feedback program
- The main challenges to getting Client Feedback programs off the ground
- How to analyse and leverage feedback to shape marketing and BD activities
- Advice for others looking to implement a successful Client Feedback program
The pivotal role of marketing and communications in successfully launching the news of a law firm merger cannot be underestimated. Striking the right balance between client-centric narratives, internal messaging, brand management, and PR is a fine art.
Today on the CMO Series, Will Eke is excited to welcome Will Brewster, Head of Communications at Clyde & Co, who has first-hand experience of doing just that. Will joins the CMO Series Podcast to delve into the different stages of Clyde & Co’s merger with BLM from a communications perspective, and discuss the challenges, opportunities, and learning for others endeavouring to do the same.
The conversation explores:
- The point Will was brought into the merger with BLM and the first stage of the process from a communications perspective
- The main challenges during the initial phase
- The key factors for success ahead of launching the communications campaign and how they played out in practice
- How to keep the clients at the heart of the campaign
- The impact of the merger on the team
- Advice for any marketing and communications leaders navigating a merger
Creating engaging content is one thing, but producing a stand-out campaign that delivers added value to your clients is the key to legal marketing success.
Today’s guest joins the CMO Series to discuss her unique process and the success stories and learning she has taken from taking a campaign approach to content marketing. Ed Lovatt is lucky to welcome Ashley Horne, Chief Marketing Officer at Womble Bond Dickinson (US) to the CMO Series to discuss this very topic.
Ashley and Ed explore:
- The traditional approach to content marketing at Womble Bond Dickinson
- The moment Ashley realized there was an alternative way of doing things and identified a campaign-led approach to content marketing
- Why an Editorial Board, that brings attorneys together, has been pivotal to this approach
- The headline campaigns Ashley is working on and what they look like at a tactical level
- How the firm's traditional business development activities align with those banner campaigns
- The highlights of taking a campaign approach to content marketing and how to measure success
- Advice for marketing leaders looking to take a campaign approach to their content marketing
Building relationships and establishing meaningful connections, both with clients and attorneys, is a fundamental facet of a legal marketing and business development role.
That’s the theme of the LMA’s MidWest Conference happening in October, and today, Ed Lovatt is very lucky to welcome the keynote speaker, to give us a glimpse of what to expect from the event, plus his industry experience on the topic.
Rich Bracken, former legal BD and client service Director turned motivational speaker and high-performance coach, joins us to discuss the power of personal branding, emotional intelligence, and empathy in legal marketing and BD, as well as a sneak preview of his upcoming keynote, Become Unstoppable!
Rich and Ed explore:
- Rich's career journey from legal marketing and BD to his current role as a speaker and coach
- The point at which Rich realized the important role empathy and emotional intelligence play in legal business development
- What legal marketing and BD professionals can do to better engage with their attorneys
- How marketing and BD professionals can apply EQ and mindfulness approaches to enhance their work lives and become more productive and efficient
- The opportunity for firms to encourage these behaviors
- Advice for legal marketing and BD folks looking to engage their lawyers more empathetically
In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we dive into what it takes to deliver a successful research project; sharing top tips for professional services marketers.
Simon Hayhurst, Director of Hayhurst Consultancy, a B2B market research consultancy, joins the series to share his invaluable insights on how legal marketing and business development professionals can get their research projects off the ground, as well as how to avoid the common pitfalls and drive strategic decisions.
Simon and Charlie explore:
- The first step to successfully getting a research project off the ground
- The most common pitfall marketers make when designing a questionnaire and writing the survey questions
- How marketers should approach profiling and identifying the right people to survey to give them the information they need
- The importance of having a hypothesis about the audience you intend to survey
- The key considerations marketers should be thinking about when it comes to analyzing the findings of a survey
- How marketers should approach presenting their research findings externally
- Top tips for professional service marketers undertaking a research project
Gone are the days when a website is merely a law firm’s online storefront. Clients now anticipate a higher level of engagement. They seek tailored content, consistently delivered, addressing pertinent topics relevant to their businesses.
In the latest episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Eugene McCormick is delighted to host Alison Janzen, Director of Marketing & Business Development at Torkin Manes. Alison delves into the firm’s integrated approach to marketing and discusses how switching to a content-forward strategy has helped differentiate their lawyers in the market.
Alison and Eugene explore:
- The moment Alison realized the importance of content marketing and why taking a content-forward approach would be pivotal to her work at Torkin Manes
- How the landscape has changed for legal marketers with the evolution of content marketing and the changing client expectations
- How a content-first approach aligns with your other marketing activities at the firm
- Success stories from taking an integrated approach
- The challenges of getting the lawyers and different practice groups on board with creating content and taking a content-led approach
- Advice for other marketing leaders looking to take an integrated approach to their content marketing
Every CMO in professional services approaches their role from a unique perspective.
On today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we welcome a guest to discuss an area of focus that we’re yet to explore in detail, and that’s how to develop a revenue mindset in legal marketing.
Alistair Bone is very lucky to welcome Deborah Ruffins, Chief Marketing Officer at Perkins Coie, who joins the podcast to share how a revenue mindset and approach can enable marketers to become central to the growth of their firm.
Deborah and Ali discuss:
- Deborah’s career journey to her current role and why a revenue-generating mindset was central to that journey
- What it means to be revenue focused and why it is something that marketers in law firms need to adopt
- The moments in Deborah’s career that shaped her focus on revenue
- What being revenue minded means for the team in practice
- The resources and infrastructure essential to this approach
- Advice for others trying to be more revenue focused in their roles
The last few years have accelerated the need for CMOs to be changemakers. More than ever, CMOs are able to drive much-needed transformation both within the marketing team and across the wider firm.
This week on the CMO series, Alistair Bone is fortunate to be joined by Shade Vaughn, Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer at Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld, to discuss the role of the CMO as a changemaker and what driving change looks like in practice.
Shade and Ali discuss:
- Shade’s career journey and how he came to his current role at Akin
- The point in that journey that driving transformation became integral
- The importance of ‘intent’ and Shade’s previous experience in this area
- How that approach translates in Shade’s work at Akin and how that aligns with the marketing efforts at the firm
- The next technology Shade has set his sights on
- The biggest mistakes CMOs make in driving change
- The sub-skills and experience that marketers looking to become CMOs should develop now
- Advice for others looking to be a changemaker across their legal marketing career
Building a book of business is crucial for lawyers, but engaging them in business development can be a challenge. Many lawyers receive little to no exposure to marketing and business development during their education, making it difficult to naturally embrace this vital aspect of their careers.
Today Cam Dobinson is lucky to be joined by Jennifer Becker, Director of Marketing & Business Development at Marshall Dennehey to discuss how to engage busy lawyers in the critical function of business development.
Jennifer and Cam discuss:
- How Jennifer came to her role in legal marketing & business development and the moment she realised the importance of engaging lawyers in BD
- The attitude and approach that lawyers have to marketing & business development
- How to successfully approach engaging lawyers in BD
- How to cater to different personalities and approaches across a large number of lawyers
- Key programs that have engaged lawyers and produced good results
- Advice for marketing and BD leaders looking to engage their lawyers in business development
While understanding the client's needs is a fundamental skill in legal business development, traditional protocols and precedents can inadvertently hinder business growth.
On this episode of the CMO Series podcast, we explore the challenges that professionals face in building successful client relationships with someone well-versed in doing just that both in-house and now as a consultant.
Ed Lovatt is lucky to sit down with Megan Senese, Co-founder of Stage, to share her journey of transitioning from Big Law to entrepreneurship. Together with her former colleagues, she founded Stage, a marketing and business development company aimed at assisting busy lawyers in expanding their practices.
Megan reflects on the lessons learned from starting a new venture in the legal industry, offering valuable insights and practical tips that in-house business development teams can apply to enhance their strategies and drive growth.
Megan and Ed discuss:
- Megan’s unique career in professional services from KPMG to legal, and now setting up Stage with her former in-house team
- The importance of a client focus in business development
- The different approaches to BD Megan discovered after starting her own company
- The key opportunities for BD that law firms could take advantage of, based on her in-house career experiences
- The significance of understanding the clients and how you go about learning that information and delivering value
- Advice for in-house BD professionals looking to take a more client-focused approach
There’s no clear path to a successful career in legal marketing, but there are emerging trends and development opportunities that professionals can lean into to progress in a legal marketing career.
Someone able to offer guidance for others looking to take a more direct route to a role within the profession is Andrea Burke, Director of Client Development at Am Law 50 global law firm, WilmerHale.
Ed Lovatt welcomes Andrea to the CMO Series to discuss her career journey and top tips for professionals looking to advance in the industry.
Andrea and Ed explore:
- Andrea’s 10-year career at WilmerHale and her journey to her role now
- The key approaches to developing a legal marketing team
- The important considerations in terms of professional development opportunities when it comes to recruiting and retaining team members
- How legal marketing professionals can recognise the right time to make a move
- The key criteria legal marketing candidates should be looking for when assessing a firm
- The questions candidates should be asking a prospective firm that would indicate if they are the right or wrong fit
- How candidates can make themselves more marketable to law firms
- Advice for those Legal Marketing professionals looking at their career paths
On today’s episode of the CMO Series, we shed light on an often-misunderstood aspect of professional services firms - the marketing function. Traditionally seen as a cost center, it has emerged as a strategic player in driving growth and profitability.
Cam Dobinson is lucky enough to welcome Áine Bryn, a seasoned expert in building and showcasing the credibility of the marketing function. As Partner and Chief Marketing Officer at Mercer UK, Áine brings a wealth of experience and insights to the table.
Together, they explore the pivotal role marketing plays as an enabler of business development and how it contributes to the overall strategic vision.
Áine and Cam discuss:
- What the landscape currently looks like for professional services marketing teams
- The importance of a commercial mindset and "speaking the language of the business", and the alignment between Marketing and Sales
- The key elements of credibility and how marketers can demonstrate those to the firm
- Why content is essential to demonstrating credibility and Áine’s approach to delivering value to clients
- Advice for anyone looking to demonstrate the credibility of the marketing function within their firm
Effective Key Client programs can be the defining factor to the overall success of a firm.
In this episode, we delve into the world of Key Client programs and their significance in driving business growth. We have the privilege of speaking with Michelle Murray, an experienced professional who has written the playbook for implementing successful Key Client programs.
Michelle joins James Barclay to share her expertise as an LMA President, Global BD Director, CMO, and Strategic Projects Director, as we explore the critical aspects of Key Client programs and learn valuable insights from Michelle's wealth of experience.
In this conversation, Michelle and James explore:
- How to describe and introduce a Key Client program to a firm
- The key steps involved in launching a successful Key Client Program
- What an effective Key Client program looks like, and how to assemble the participants
- How to determine the level of service provided in a Key Client program
- How to build consensus within the firm for a Key Client program, and how to allocate resources
- The most common mistakes firms make when implementing Key Client programs
- The key metrics to measure the success of a Key Client program
- Advice to others looking to create a successful Key Client program
Throughout the CMO Series Podcast, we've delved into the challenges faced by legal Chief Marketing Officers. Few periods in a CMO's career are as demanding as the first 12 months in the role. Today, Eugene McCormick has the privilege of speaking with a true trailblazer who has thrived under this pressure. Join us in welcoming Sarah Kempsey, CMO at Montgomery McCracken.
Drawing from her wealth of experience, Sarah shares invaluable insights on navigating the complex landscape of legal marketing. From establishing a strong foundation to overcoming obstacles, she offers practical advice and strategies tailored for new CMOs.
Sarah and Eugene discuss:
- Sarah's journey to her current role as CMO
- Highlights of Sarah's 12-month tenure as a CMO
- Sarah's proudest accomplishments and biggest challenges
- Navigating the absence of a playbook and finding the right approach
- Personal growth and changes throughout the 12 months
- Sarah's one key piece of advice for legal marketers facing ambitious and challenging times
Welcome to a milestone episode of the CMO Series Podcast. We're pulling out all the stops to celebrate our 100th episode by taking a look back at our favourite moments as well as a sneak peek into the future of professional services marketing and business development.
I'm thrilled to be joined by Yasmin Zand, as we embark on a journey through the realm of modern marketing. We'll uncover the fascinating world of the composable approach to website architecture and explore the remarkable ways AI can supercharge your content marketing efforts. Plus, we'll share invaluable insights gleaned from our incredible guests, who spilled their secrets on successful law firm rebranding, building enterprise-scale websites, and forging a digital-first strategy.
A big thank you to our guests, including Julie Stott, CMO at Travers Smith, Mary-Anne Russell, Global Managing Director of Marketing & Sales Enablement at AMS, Crossley Sanford, Managing Director at Ankura and Barney O’Kelly, UK Marketing Director at AlixPartners who left us awestruck at CMO Series Live in London. And heartfelt thanks to all the guests who have made the CMO Series the success it is today. Get ready for more amazing spotlights over the course of the next 100 episodes!
Rebrands. They can be some of the most exciting and challenging projects a legal marketer can take on.
On today’s episode of the CMO Series, we’re lucky to welcome someone who has recently completed a law firm rebrand. Charles Cousins sits down with Erica Roman, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Cole Schotz, to discuss the project, its challenges, successes and how it all came about.
Charles and Erica explore:
- How Erica came to be the CMO at Cole Schotz and at what point on the journey she recognised a rebrand was needed
- How to approach early conversations about the website and the need for redesign
- The process from start to finish and the type of internal resources required for the project
- How to involve the wider firm and the approach to getting feedback
- Where the direction of "Lawyering is our Art" came from
- The biggest challenge of the project and the biggest success
- Advice for others looking to be successful in leading rebrands within their law firm
On this episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS, Yasmin Zand is lucky enough to sit down with Roy Sexton, Director of Marketing at Clark Hill and 2023 Legal Marketing Association President, to discuss his journey both inside and outside of the professional services marketing industry.
Roy discusses how his formative experiences as a gay man have impacted his approach to leadership and why finding safe and inclusive communities that allow him to be his authentic self have become so central in his career.
The conversation delves into Roy’s childhood, passions, and why his headline performance at the 2023 LMA Annual Conference in Florida was so poignant in supporting the LGBTQ+ community at that moment.
Listen in full to hear Roy’s story and his advice for others looking to be comfortable and authentically themselves in their professions.
It’s often challenging to fully illustrate what differentiates a law firm from others in the market. Being able to articulate the unique value a firm offers is a key element of the role of the CMO.
Today on the CMO Series, Charles Cousins is lucky enough to dive into this topic with Suzie Williams, National Director, Marketing & Business Development at McMillan.
Suzie and Charles discuss:
- Suzie’s journey to her role at McMillan and the specific moment differentiation became a key consideration
- The importance of client listening and feedback
- How to demonstrate the talent and experience within your firm in an authentic way
- The role of the marketing team in building diverse teams
- Advice for others trying to build a point of difference for their firm
The first few days, weeks and months as a legal CMO are critical in establishing yourself in the business, assessing what is needed in the firm and building an understanding of the landscape at the firm.
Today, Alistair Bone welcomes Jennifer O'Donnell, Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer at Segal McCambridge, to the series to discuss her first steps as legal CMO and her advice for aspiring marketers new to their roles.
Jennifer and Ali discuss:
- Jennifer’s career journey leading up to joining Segal McCambridge as CMO
- The plan for the first day, week, month, quarter as a CMO in a new firm with a new team and how to prioritise activities
- The biggest successes of the first few months as a CMO
- The challenges faced when joining a new firm in the early months
- The resources, people or communities that have helped along the way
- The previous experiences from former roles Jennifer has leaned on the most as a CMO
- Advice for others taking on new and challenging legal marketing roles
Although often considered synonymous with one another, the Marketing and Business Development functions occupy quite different spaces within a law firm. No matter how those functions operate within the firm, there is always a need to ensure they are aligned to successfully meet the objectives of the firm.
On today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins is lucky enough to dive into this topic with Mariana Loose, Chief Marketing Officer at Alston and Bird.
Mariana and Charles discuss:
- Mariana’s journey to CMO at Alston and Bird, and the point on that journey she realised how important Marketing and BD alignment was
- The consequences of a misaligned marketing and BD structure
- How marketing and BD should work together and the roles they both play
- How Alston and Bird are aligning these two key functions
- The importance of diagnosis and applying the right resource to benefit the firm
- How to define what "good" looks like for both the functions within the firm
- Advice for other legal marketing professionals on their career journey
Being able to demonstrate the knowledge of your firm is at the heart of professional services marketing.
On this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Ed Lovatt is lucky to explore this topic with Angela Pandolfo Roy, Chief Marketing Officer at Gibbons Law. Together, they delve into Angela's background, how her firm approaches content management, and what firms should consider when it comes to the role of content in their marketing efforts.
Angela and Ed cover:
- How Angela came to her role at Gibbons and the point in her career journey she realised how key content management is in legal marketing
- What content management means and why it is "the linchpin" of legal marketing
- How the Gibbons Law team approach content management and what those processes look like in practice
- How to keep tabs on the competition through content
- How Angela’s background in journalism has helped her in her legal marketing career
- Advice for legal marketers looking to succeed with content
By shifting the business development mindset from asking for work to offering assistance with problem-solving, you will not only deepen relationships but improve your likelihood of generating new business.
Whether a new entrant to the associate ranks or a recent lateral hire, all lawyers have an opportunity to make a positive impact on their firm’s bottom line with this approach. On today’s episode of the CMO Series, Ed Lovatt welcomes Katie Munroe, Chief Marketing Officer at Zuckerman Spaeder, to discuss their method for cultivating a service-oriented mindset and why Zuckerman Spaeder is investing in a BD training program to shape the next generation of lawyers.
Ed and Katie discuss:
- How Zuckerman Spaeder brought in new work historically and how that has shifted in the last few years
- The importance of investing in developing new firm attorneys – whether junior lawyers or lateral hires
- The new business development curriculum for lawyers Katie is developing and how it supports good client service
- The generational differences between junior associates fresh out of law school to those who’ve been in the role for a number of years and how to tailor business development training to meet their expectations and leverage their strengths
- The importance of networking opportunities for attorneys early in their career and how distinct that approach is at Zuckerman
- The ideal mix when it comes to a more traditional, in-person approach to BD in a digital-first world
- Advice for marketing and BD leaders looking to develop the next generation of lawyers in their firm
Despite the rise of Diversity, Equity & Inclusion programs, there is still a huge disparity in the representation of people of colour in professional services marketing. This under-representation is most apparent in leadership roles, highlighting that there’s still a way to go.
That’s why on this episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS we’re so lucky to welcome a leading role model who is paving the way in professional services marketing by highlighting issues related to colour, culture and leadership in law firms.
Yasmin Zand has the pleasure of sitting down with Diana Lauritson, Senior Marketing and Business Development Manager at Hogan Lovells, to share her lived experiences, the role race has played in her career, and how to raise the next generation of marketing leaders.
Diana and Yasmin discuss:
- How Diana came to her career in legal marketing and her current role at Hogan Lovells
- How being a woman of colour impacted the way Diana moved forward as a Legal Marketer
- The pressures related to being one of the few women of colour in senior marketing roles in law firms
- Programs that supported Diana and recommendations for the next generation of women of colour in legal marketing to find support
- Advice for up-and-comers in the industry
Each and every law firm has a unique culture, and a different way of working together and moving forward. Every day here at Passle we see the impact that the firm's culture has on the success of the marketing and BD approach.
On this episode of the CMO Series, Alistair Bone has the pleasure of speaking with Maura Brandt, Chief Marketing Officer at Crowell & Moring to get her insights on how to foster a positive and successful culture in legal marketing.
Ali and Maura explore:
- Maura’s career highlights and how she came to her current role at Crowell and when she first noticed how important culture was to the success of a firm
- What makes a good culture in a law firm and more specifically in a legal marketing team
- Crowell’s recent brand refresh and how culture played a part of the process
- The specific elements that contribute strongly to the culture at Crowell
- What a positive, successful culture means for someone in a marketing or BD position in a law firm
- The role of the CMO in fostering and encouraging a positive culture within the firm
- Advice for legal marketers looking to make a positive impact on the culture at their firm
Mergers can provide huge growth opportunities for ambitious law firms. Navigating a merger can also present challenges, but marketing and BD teams are well-positioned to help guide and influence a firm’s strategic direction and identify new or emerging markets.
Someone well-versed in successfully navigating mergers and lateral integrations is Adam Severson, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Baker Donelson. Ed Lovatt has the pleasure of welcoming Adam to the CMO Series to share his insights on taking advantage of market opportunities and the key factors that influence the success of a merger.
Ed and Adam discuss:
- Adam’s background and career journey to his role now at Baker Donelson
- The point at which Adam recognised the huge potential of law firm mergers in providing business development opportunities
- The current landscape for firms when it comes to merger activity
- The role of marketing and BD in influencing strategic growth and take advantage of new or emerging markets and what those activities look like on a practical level
- The key success factors that indicate if a merger will be successful or not
- Advice for marketing BD professionals looking to successfully influence mergers and capitalise on growth opportunities
Steeped in tradition, many successful law firms have been built on a name and an individual’s connections. In a global market, extending those networks at scale, whilst retaining a personal approach, can be key to the success of a modern-day firm.
On this episode of the CMO Series podcast, Eugene McCormick is lucky to be joined by David Kaufman, Director of Global Strategies at Nixon Peabody, who, although may appear unconventional, successfully crosses borders and time zones to build relationships and win business.
David joins the series to discuss his alternative approach and why embracing globalisation has benefited his career.
Eugene and David explore:
- David’s career journey to his role at Nixon Peabody
- Developing a unique approach to business development and when David recognised the opportunities that globalisation presented to law firms
- The critical success factors of doing business internationally and how to nurture connections regardless of geography
- How marketing and BD professionals can replicate this career path or take the next step
- The importance of personal branding and authenticity in this role
- Advice for professionals looking to take a more alternative approach to business development
We've seen marketers in law firms get used to wearing a number of hats. One legal marketer who has come to wear a rather unique hat is Christy Walsh, Chief Operating Officer at Drew Eckl & Farnham.
Today, Ali Bone welcomes Christy to the CMO Series to discuss the move from CMO to COO as a legal marketer and the challenges and opportunities for professionals looking to take this path.
Ali and Christy explore:
- How Christy came to her role as COO at Drew Eckl and Farnham
- When and why an operations role became something Christy was looking for and how the new position came about
- The skills crossover from marketing to operations
- The challenges during that transition and areas that took some adjustment
- The day-to-day of a COO and how that differs from marketing
- The secret to wearing many hats and managing a heavy workload
- The potential evolution of the role of the legal CMO to COO
- Advice to others looking to make this transition
As legal marketing becomes more mature and attractive as a profession, more and more legal marketers are trying to find their fit within the industry.
On today’s episode of the CMO Series, Charles Cousins is lucky today to get advice from Paul Webb, Director Of Marketing & Business Development at Richards, Layton & Finger. Paul joins the podcast to discuss how legal marketers can find the right fit for them within legal marketing.
Charles and Paul cover:
- How Paul came to be in his current role and when the point he realised legal marketing was for him
- What first attracted Paul to the idea of legal marketing as a career
- The key considerations marketers should think about when selecting the type of firm and the location they want to work in
- How to figure out which sub-disciplines within legal marketing, such as communications, PR and digital marketing are the right fit
- Advice for others trying to find the best fit for them within legal marketing
Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. Nearly all law firms have a DEI policy in place but how many are truly progressive when it comes to creating an inclusive and equitable environment for lawyers and business professionals to thrive?
That’s the theme of today’s episode of the CMO Series, and Will Eke is very lucky to welcome Silvia Van Den Bruel, Marketing & Business Development Director at Hausfeld, to talk about social inclusion and the role of the marketing and BD function in driving change.
Silvia and Will discuss:
- What Diversity, Equity and Inclusion looks like in today’s firms
- The importance of language and the other factors that need addressing
- Hausfeld’s approach to DEI and the opportunities for improvement
- The role of the marketing function in driving change when it comes to social inclusion within law firms
- Real-world examples of where DEI has benefited the firm
- Advice for Marketing and BD leaders looking to take a more inclusive approach in their firm
It’s easy to reflect on the most significant moments in your career in retrospect, but understanding and identifying those milestones when they happen can be fundamental to taking the next step in your career journey.
On today’s CMO Series podcast, Eugene McCormick is lucky to welcome Kimberly Conyers, Senior Marketing and Business Development Manager at Kennedys, to talk to us about the pivotal moments in her unique career.
Kimberly and Eugene explore:
- Kim’s path into legal marketing and business development and where the journey started
- The first pivotal moment in Kim’s career and when she realised how important that was
- The approach Kim took to building her skillset and understanding the value she had to offer in her next role
- The key projects or milestones that were pivotal in influencing the course of Kim’s career
- The key factors or characteristics to understanding when is the right time to take the next opportunity
- Advice to help other professionals recognise pivotal career moments and when to take the next step
In the final part of CMO Series REPRESENTS: Embracing Equity program, leading female voices across the legal marketing industry discuss the need for women to back themselves and be their own advocates to build a successful career in the profession.
This brilliant group of guests reflect on their experiences and share their personal perspectives, encouraging women to find joy in their careers and take ownership of forging their own paths in the industry in order to strike a fulfilling work-life balance.
We have the honour of hearing personal stories and perspectives from Charlotte Green, Head of Clients and Markets at Gowling WLG, Trish Lilley, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Thompson Coburn, Elinor Gilles-Jones, Head of Business Development and Events at Wrigleys Solicitors, Sophie Hudson, Head of Marketing and Business Development at Sherrards Solicitors, Jane Biddell, Marketing and Business Development Director at Fox Williams, Jean Marie Campbell, Head of Client Development for North America for Baker McKenzie, Heather Morse, Chief Business Development Officer McGlinchey Stafford, Catherine Knock, Head of Marketing & Communications at Hassans, Siobhan Moret, Marketing Director at Saffery Champness, Tania D’Souza Culora, Founding Partner at Seastone IP and Candice De Bruin, Head of Business and Practice Development at Werksmans Attorneys.
A law firm often brings in a new CMO to overhaul the firm's go-to-market approach. In some cases, the firm has little to no existing marketing function and the new CMO must build a team from the ground up.
On today’s CMO Series, Charles Cousins is lucky to welcome Chris Postizzi, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at MG+M The Law Firm, to explore the challenges, learnings and successes that come from starting with a clean slate as a new CMO.
Chris and Charles discuss:
- How Chris came to the role of CMO at MG+M
- Where the firm is now, compared to where it was a year ago when Chris joined
- The main projects Chris prioritised in the first year and the approach to delivering those
- The experience of recruiting a whole team in the current market and Chris’s philosophy for building the team out
- Advice for others thinking about or trying to build out their marketing and BD function
This week on CMO Series REPRESENTS we’re joined by another group of leading women in professional services marketing to discuss the techniques they have developed throughout their careers to build confidence in their capabilities. We also take a closer look at some of the innovative initiatives firms are creating to embed equity within their culture.
Our esteemed guests share their unique perspectives and lived experiences which have shaped their growth, and discuss the importance of having confidence in their own abilities to build resilience and respect within the profession.
We’re thankful to hear from Silvia Van Den Bruel, Marketing & BD Director at Hausfeld, Rachel Hussey, Clients and Markets Partner at Arthur Cox, Lea Kusano, Head of Communication & Marketing at Kellerhals Carrard, Lisa Vicine, Chief Marketing Officer at Arnall Golden Gregory, Joanna Hansen, Head of Marketing and Business Development at Morton Fraser Lawyers, Danielle Paige, Chief Marketing and Growth Officer at Nixon Peabody, Amelia Stirling, CMO at Burges Salmon, Nancy Kostakos, Chief Marketing Officer at Cooley, Jill Huse, Partner at Society 54, Anna Hedgepeth, Director of Business Development at Cranfill Sumner, and Sarah Ryan, Director of Marketing and Business Development at Stark & Stark.
There are very few Chief Growth Officers working within law firms. It's a role that places an emphasis on value, revenue and on the business benefit that marketing and business development can bring.
On this episode of the CMO Series, James Barclay is lucky to welcome Susan Hollender, Chief Growth Officer at Michael Best, to see how she and her team are delivering value and growth through legal productisation.
James and Susan delve into:
- How Susan arrived in her current role as Chief Growth Officer and at what point on that journey she became familiar with productisation in the context of legal service
- The synergy between disruption and growth and how to position yourself to have the mandate to do things differently
- The definition of Productisation and how it works in a legal context
- How Susan identified that productisation was something that would have an impact at Michael Best
- The processes that helped establish those products within the firm
- The level of cultural acceptance the firm needs to adopt these practices
- Advice for others trying to lead growth in their firms
Our celebration of leading women in professional services marketing continues on this week’s episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS where we explore the power of networks and why building and sustaining strong relationships with peers in professional services marketing can be key to longevity and success within the industry.
We’re grateful to hear unique insights and personal experiences on developing professional support networks from Geneva Granatstein, Director of Marketing at Lane Powell, Laura Nicholls, Chief Business Development Officer at Ashurst, Jessica Grayson, Managing Director of Business Development and Marketing at Stroock & Stroock & Lavan, Larissa Palmer, Chief Business Development Officer at Cravath, Swaine & Moore, Natalia-Ruiz Moreno, Head of Marketing And Business Development at Boyes Turner, Melanie Davidson Barros, Chief Marketing Officer at Conyers, Melissa Marshall, Chief Marketing Officer at Levenfeld Pearlstein and Mary-Ann Russell, Head of Marketing and Sales Enablement at AMS.
Law firms increasingly see their brand and digital presence as key to growth. With this demand, there is more pressure on marketing teams to execute successful redesigns and rebrands which often turn into the most complicated marketing projects.
Today we're diving into the decisions and challenges of a rebrand. Charles Cousins is thrilled to welcome Rachael Schilling, Director of Marketing at Liskow, to the CMO Series to discuss how she and her team navigated their recent rebranding and web redesign.
Charles and Rachael discuss:
- Rachael’s background and how she came to be CMO at Liskow
- How the rebrand came about, and the driving forces behind it
- How the rebrand fitted into the wider strategy
- The influence of industry changes on the redesign
- Managing the internal communications around the rebrand
- Advice for others trying to lead a rebrand in their firms
Celebrating leading female voices during Women’s History Month and beyond, we catch up with a brilliant group of women in professional services marketing and business development to hear how they have built successful careers and the importance of planning ahead when carving your path in the industry.
From balancing family life and career progression to knowing the right time to move on, we’re honoured to hear personal experiences and helpful insights from Shirin Hamidi, Senior Marketing Manager at Simons Muirhead Burton, Sophie Bowkett, Chief Marketing Officer at Bird & Bird, Laura Toledo, Director of Marketing and Business Development at Nilan Johnson Lewis, Kim Rennick, Director of Client Relations at Covington and Burling, Archana Venkat, Chief Marketing Officer at Trilegal, Alison Arjoon, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Fragomen, Natalie Stephan, Chief Marketing Officer at Adams & Adams, Molly Klein, Chief Marketing Officer at Davies Wright Tremaine and Laura Desjean, Head of Client Relations and Education at Tyson & Mendes.
Professional service firms are well versed in reacting to large-scale events, whether it’s an economic crisis, a global pandemic or regulatory changes. How firm leaders respond, manage and communicate the subsequent impact with their people and clients is critical.
What many firms are less used to handling, is a natural disaster of epic proportions. On this episode of the CMO Series, Ed Lovatt welcomes Douglas Szabo, Managing Lawyer, and Gail Lamarche, Director of Marketing and Business Development at Henderson Franklin to hear what happened when Hurricane Ian hit Southwest Florida last year, and how the management team responded in the wake of a 500-year flood.
Ed, Gail and Douglas discuss:
- The immediate response when the hurricane hit and the first priorities
- How the senior management team came together to respond and the communications plans that were put into action
- How crisis plans were implemented or changed as things developed on the ground
- The importance and impact of thoughtful and authentic internal communications
- The priorities and processes of communication with external clients in the aftermath of a crisis
- The unintentional outcomes that resulted from the experience and how they might influence future processes
- Lessons and advice for law firm leaders and marketing professionals on planning crisis communications so they can be better prepared for potential future events
On Episode 2 of CMO Series REPRESENTS, we continue the conversation with leading women in professional services marketing, this week discussing the importance of bringing your authentic self to the workplace.
We’re lucky to be joined by some leading voices in the industry as we delve into how firms are embracing equity and why women should bring their value and unique qualities to their roles. And by doing so, encourage others to be themselves to help build a more equitable environment where everyone can thrive.
Sharing their unique perspectives and personal insights on this topic, we catch up with Katie Cramond, Director of Business Development International at Mcdermott Will and Emery, Tamara Costa, National Director, Brand and Marketing Communications at BLG, Lucy Rao, Business Development Director at Boodle Hatfield, Claire Farrelly, Head of Marketing and Business Development at Forsters, Sherry Allen Chief Marketing Officer at Butler Snow, Sarah-Jane Howitt, Business Development and Communications Director at Weightmans, Kim Perret, Chief Marketing Officer at Jones Walker, Ana Margarida Craveiro, Director of Communications and Public Relations at Morais Leitao, Vikki Whittemore, Group Marketing Director at Gateley and Julie Stott, Chief Marketing Officer at Travers Smith.
The way we consume content has changed and clients have come to expect more personalised, relevant content that is delivered when they need it. This escalated shift to digital we’ve experienced in recent years presents fresh opportunities for professional service marketers.Today on the CMO Series, Charles Cousins is lucky to welcome Judith McKay, Chief Client and Innovation Officer at leading Canadian law firm, McCarthy Tétrault LLP, to discuss the importance of effective content marketing.Charles and Judith explore:
- What the content marketing landscape looks like for professional services firms today
- To what extent firms are adapting to the changing landscape
- What firms should be looking to do to enhance their thought leadership and content marketing efforts
- Real-world examples of effective content marketing at McCarthy and the results
- The importance of leveraging feedback and data on thought leadership at an account and strategic level
- Advice for any marketing and BD professionals looking to take a more effective, client-focused approach to their content marketing
- What the content marketing landscape looks like for professional services firms today
- To what extent firms are adapting to the changing landscape
- What firms should be looking to do to enhance their thought leadership and content marketing efforts
- Real-world examples of effective content marketing at McCarthy and the results
- The importance of leveraging feedback and data on thought leadership at an account and strategic level
- Advice for any marketing and BD professionals looking to take a more effective, client-focused approach to their content marketing
To celebrate International Women’s Day 2023, we reached out to women across professional services marketing and business development to learn about their lived experiences in the industry.We were overwhelmed by the response. Having spoken with more than 50 women about their careers, and how firms can embrace equity to level the playing for everyone in the profession, it was clear there was so much more to discuss and many more groups that are still underrepresented in professional services marketing.As a result, we’re excited to launch CMO Series REPRESENTS, a platform for discussion with marketing and BD leaders on key issues relating to Diversity, Equity & Inclusion within the industry. We begin by celebrating female voices and experiences throughout this Women’s History Month (March 2023) and beyond.Join us as we talk with marketing and business development leaders from top law and professional services firms to shine a light on inspirational leaders, and game-changing initiatives, as they share their insights, discuss the challenges, and best practices to support others making their way in the profession. First up, we speak with Alessandra Almeida Jones, Global Director of Marketing and Communications at Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner, Alicia Mack, Chief Business Development & Marketing Officer at Nutter McClennen & Fish, Barbara Malin, Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer at Jackson Walker, Beth Huffman, Director of Marketing at Nelson Mullins, Eleanor Smith, Chief Client Officer at Barnes & Thornburg, Lauren Whittemore, Vice President of Global Marketing & Group Digital Strategy at Intertek, Lisa Azzuolo, Chief Marketing Officer at Bennett Jones and Samantha Maher, Marketing Director at Stewarts, to learn about their personal experiences and the strategies and practices their firms are adopting to truly embrace equity and embed it in their culture.The conversation covers the importance of mentorship for professionals at all stages of their careers, the impact that positive role models have on creating an inclusive and supportive workplace and advice for women entering the profession.
In the year that will undoubtedly go down in history, 2020, Robyn Addis showcased her entrepreneurial spirit and keen eye for talent on LinkedIn. She featured her friend and family photographer, using the hashtag #FollowFriday, and what began as a simple tribute quickly snowballed into an incredible following. Robyn's unwavering dedication to spotlighting remarkable women saw her continue the tradition of featuring phenomenal individuals every Friday.
Taking her #FollowFriday journey to the next level, Robyn conceived of an ambitious plan to unite these incredible people and more. The result is nothing short of remarkable; the #FollowFriday conference, taking place this International Women's Day (8 March), promises to be an event unlike any other. It is a testament to Robyn's hard work and vision that she has succeeded in amassing a community of over 160 attendees, all eager to collaborate, share their experiences, and elevate each other's careers and lives.
On this episode of the CMO Series, Yasmin Zand has the pleasure of sitting down with Robyn to learn about the origins of #FollowFriday, what attendees can expect from the conference, and how others can get involved.
Gaining trust with your firm’s key stakeholders is key to successful marketing and business development. But engaging attorneys in your key marketing programs can have its challenges. Limited time, resources and visibility within the firm can stifle even the most effective marketing initiatives.This is why Edward Lovatt is so lucky to welcome Morgan Horvitz, Chief Client Relations and Business Development Officer at Galloway to the CMO Series, to share her experience in gaining attorney engagement.Ed and Morgan cover:
- Morgan’s career journey to her current role at Galloway and how those experiences have shaped her approach
- The point at which Morgan identified the importance of strong stakeholder relationships, particularly with attorneys, in driving successful business development
- Successful projects implemented at Galloway including the CRM
- The more traditional and in-person activities that create wrap-around support for attorneys
- How to go about building the brand of the marketing and BD function within the firm to help build trust with attorneys
- Key stakeholders and functions that need engaging for wider firm buy-in
- Challenges or roadblocks when it comes to engaging key stakeholders and how to overcome those
- Advice for marketing and BD professionals looking to effectively engage their attorneys and key stakeholders within their firm
Marketing and business development professionals are often considered change agents. Shifts in technologies and industries present exciting and new opportunities. Managing those, alongside the personal changes that team members experience, is a skill marketing leaders will need to hone for long-term success.On today’s episode of the CMO Series, Alistair Bone is lucky to welcome someone well-versed in change management. Anna Hedgepeth, Director of Business Development at Cranfill Sumner, is here to tell us about her personal experiences in managing change and how those experiences have positively impacted and influenced her work at the firm.
Ali and Anna discuss:
- Pivotal moments in Anna’s career and personal life that influenced her role at Cranfill Sumner
- The point at which Anna realised how critical change management is when it comes to leading and developing a legal BD and marketing function
- The challenges Anna faced personally, such as coming back from maternity leave
- How managing her changes differed from managing the changes facing other team members and the processes needed to support those
- Why the SAW program was developed to gamify BD activities across practice areas and how Anna’s change management experience has influenced the marketing and BD efforts at the firm
- Advice for other BD and marketing leaders looking to implement change in their firm
Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. Most law firms have a working group or committee in place to create, communicate and manage their DEI strategy. While these initiatives are well-intended, they can be difficult to retrospectively integrate into the core values and culture of the firm.Today’s guest is here to share what it’s like to work in a truly progressive firm. Ali Bone is so lucky to welcome Laura Toledo, Director of Business Development & Marketing at Nilan Johnson Lewis to hear how their values are embedded in the firm’s culture and how they impact marketing and business development on a daily basis.Ali and Laura cover:
- How Laura came to her role at Nilan Johnson Lewis and why her interview was so significant
- The firm’s history in terms of culture and where the progressive nature came from
- How to keep conversations about Diversity, Equity and Inclusion going to continue progressing
- How culture influences day-to-day activities and how those values translate externally
- How working in a progressive firm enables career progression as a marketing and BD leader
- What a progressive culture means for professionals in the legal industry and how it could benefit firms and individuals if they were to take this approach
- Advice for other marketing and BD leaders looking to embed their DEI values into their firm’s culture
A transcription of this episode is available here.
Law firm culture. Articulating it isn’t easy, but it impacts all aspects of the firm, from recruitment, retention and employee experience to client engagement and business development.On today’s episode of the CMO Series, Ali Bone is lucky to welcome someone who has successfully defined their firm’s culture - Powers Tanis, Director of Strategic Marketing and Communications at McAngus Goudelock & Courie.Powers joins the series to share her insights on culture, communication and the role of marketing in demonstrating the firm’s values.Ali and Powers discuss:
- Powers’ background leading up to her current role at McAngus Goudelock & Courie
- The point in Powers’ career she realised the importance of culture and social value within the workplace, and in law firms specifically
- The activities Powers is implementing at McAngus to cultivate and communicate culture
- How these activities have changed and evolved in response to hybrid and more flexible working arrangements
- The impact of this very considered approach to culture within the firm in relation to recruiting talent and retaining existing talent within the firm
- How the culture impacts business development and marketing activities
- Plans for 2023 and beyond when it comes to communicating the firm’s culture both internally and externally
- Advice for other marketing professionals looking to cultivate and communicate their firm’s culture
A full transcription of this episode is available here.
Defining and creating a new business development training program in a firm that’s thriving is perhaps more daunting than starting from scratch. Many firms stick to a tried and tested method, but that isn't always the most effective, or equitable, approach for a modern-day firm.On this episode of the CMO Series Ali Bone has the pleasure of welcoming Julie Wall Khoury, Chief Marketing Officer at Balch & Bingham to share her experience in developing a successful business development coaching program.Ali and Julie explore:
- Balch & Bingham’s background in BD training and what needed to change
- How the ‘Business Generator’ program come about, and the process and people involved in that journey
- What value Society 54 brought to the research and development of the program
- Identifying the right tools and platform for the program to be successful
- Why ‘levelling up’ access for everyone in the firm was a conscious decision in the development of the program
- How to drive engagement with a BD training program
- The challenges or barriers to success when implementing a new program
- The success stories off the back of the program and how feedback will influence the next iteration
- Advice for other marketing and BD leaders looking to take a customised approach to their BD training program
A full transcript of this episode is available here.
It’s no secret that the past 25 years have seen the most significant transformation in legal marketing and BD. But the events of recent years have no doubt seen the most monumental step change, from advances in technology to the way firms and their clients operate and interact on a daily basis.On this episode Charles Cousins is lucky to talk to Lisa Azzuolo, Chief Marketing Officer at Bennett Jones, about the challenges facing legal marketers and how to deliver value in today’s climate as well as the lessons learned in implementing a commemorative communications campaign that resonated with all of the firm's stakeholders.Charles and Lisa discuss:
- Lisa’s career journey which spans 30 years, and her path to CMO at Bennett Jones
- The firm’s 100-year history and the objectives of the centennial campaign that launched in 2022 to celebrate this landmark moment
- How the new ways of working in recent years impacted the project and the challenges that presented
- How the firm demonstrated its gratitude and commitment to its clients through the campaign during a time when it was impossible to meet with people in person
- The implications of remote and hybrid working on the way teams operate and how to motivate teams and keep the momentum going
- The highlights and successes of the campaign
- Advice for other legal marketing leaders looking to implement a campaign of this magnitude
Find out more about Bennett Jones’ history and its centennial campaign, Firm First: 100 Years of Service and Trust, here.
The rise of the marketing and business development function within law firms presents new opportunities for those developing a career in the industry. But how you approach and act upon those opportunities is the key to success.On this episode of the CMO Series, Ali Bone is lucky to welcome Matt Goffe, Director of Business Development at Eckert Seamans, who shares his journey in legal business development and advice for BD professionals looking to make an impact in their careers.Ali and Matt cover:
- Matt’s career journey and how he came to his current role at Eckert Seamans
- The pivotal points in Matt’s career and what he learnt from those experiences
- The key opportunities today for having an impact on the firm and building a successful career
- The differences between sizes of firms in how business development professionals need to approach their roles
- The programs currently creating impact at Eckert Seamans and the most significant opportunities for senior business development professionals to have an impact on their firms
- How to make the most of the Legal Marketing Association as an opportunity for growth
- The future of careers in legal marketing & BD
- Advice for others looking to make the most of the opportunities that exist in legal marketing and business development
Over the past two years we’ve had the pleasure of speaking to some truly inspirational marketing and business development leaders who’ve shared their insights and advice for other professionals on their career journeys.
To kick-start 2023, we had the privilege of catching up with 30 of our CMO Series guests to hear their top tips for legal marketing and BD success in professional services.
From all of us here at Passle, we wish you a very happy and prosperous new year!
Technology in legal marketing and business development offers huge opportunities to help firms progress and stand out in the market. The type of technology and how it’s applied depends on the firm’s capabilities, and more importantly, its goals and ambitions. Someone with a deep understanding of aligning technology with their firm's goals is Suzanne Donnels, Chief Business Development & Marketing Officer at Davies Ward Phillips & Vineberg. Ali Bone has the pleasure of sitting down with Suzanne to explore her insights on identifying and implementing the right tech stack to fit your firm’s goals. Ali and Suzanne cover:
- Suzanne’s journey to CMO and how technology has played a role in that journey
- What the definition of legal marketing tech is and the kinds of solutions available
- How law firm marketing and BD can shape their tech stack and policies to meet their goals
- Example of alignment between goals of the firm and technology
- How far along firms are on their technology journey and the minimum baseline and core capabilities that today's legal marketing and BD departments need to be delivering
- Advice for others looking to make the most of the opportunities presented by technology in legal marketing and business development
From the outside, the legal industry might seem slow to change, but for those working within or alongside law firms, there are constant innovations driving the industry forward.Today's guest has been right at the centre of that innovation, Ed Lovatt is excited to welcome Michael Hertz, CMO of White & Case to the CMO Series to discuss innovation and how leaders in law firms can approach it successfully.Ed and Michael discuss:
- Michael’s journey to CMO at White & Case and how it’s influenced his approach to innovation
- How Michael’s deep experience with the knowledge function within law firms influences his approach to innovation day-to-day
- How leaders can ensure that innovation is cohesive and benefits the firm
- How to distil what innovations will benefit a specific client
- The key challenges in scaling innovations within a law firm
- When and how firms should build their reputation in the market as an innovative service provider
- Advice for others looking to be successful in leading innovation within law firm
The journey to CMO or Communications leader is often indirect. In many cases, the most successful marketing leaders have wide-ranging experience across different industries, roles and geographies.Eugene McCormick is lucky to welcome someone who has brought his communications and agency experience to his role in legal. Today on the CMO Series we welcome Konstantin Shishkin, Chief Communications Officer at Goodwin Procter.Konstantin shares how he’s building an innovative legal marketing team that breaks the mould of the traditional law firm approach.Eugene and Konstantin cover:
- Konstantin’s career journey to his role now as Chief Communications Officer at Goodwin
- The unique characteristics or experiences from his work in communications and how they have influenced the marketing and communications team at Goodwin
- The key differentiators regarding the firm’s strategy and the main focus areas
- Influencing the approach to recruitment and growing a marketing team that aligns with the firm’s strategy
- Building the marketing team like a startup and how that differs to other firms
- The problem with the traditional approach to recruiting and building marketing teams in law firms
- The challenges to building a team in this innovative way
- Advice for other marketing and communications professionals in the industry looking to take a more innovative approach to growing a team
Change is inevitable. But how law firms react to it is a defining characteristic of successful legal marketing. Shifts in the economy, emerging industries and changes in regulation happen often and being able to respond to new opportunities is a skill that marketing leaders need to exercise now more than ever before.Jennifer Green is lucky to welcome to the CMO series Tammy Mangan, Director of Marketing at Cohen Milstein Sellers & Toll, to explore how legal marketers can recognise and take advantage of opportunities in the market. Jennifer and Tammy cover:
- How Tammy came to be in your current role and when was it in her career that she realised how important it was to be aware of and able to take advantage of opportunities as a legal marketer
- Why looking for opportunities and turning them to the benefit of the firm is so key for marketing at a law firm
- What a potential opportunity look like for a firm and what marketers do to be more aware of possible developments
- How marketers be nimble and ready to move quickly enough to make opportunities matter
- Once the opportunity becomes obvious and the firm has committed to the plan, what the first steps are in making the most of that development
- Advice for marketers looking to see and react to opportunities facing their firm
This Thanksgiving we’re celebrating and giving thanks to our CMO Series guests as they share their gratitude to the people in their lives that have helped them succeed in their legal marketing and business development careers.
In this special bumper-packed edition of the podcast we hear their personal stories, the inspiring people and the advice that have guided these leaders on their paths to success.
We’d like to wish our friends and colleagues a very happy Thanksgiving!
Longevity, growth, execution and retention. These are just some of the facets a legal CMO has to manage.
In this episode of the CMO Series, we explore the various dimensions of the job of a CMO. Eugene McCormick is lucky to be joined by Jeanne Hammerstrom, CMO at Benesch to discuss the key challenges facing legal CMOs today and how she’s built a successful team that has stood the test of time.
Eugene and Jeanne cover:
- How Jeanne came to be in Cleveland and the steps along the road to CMO at Benesch
- The secret to longevity in senior legal marketing roles
- The value of longevity and what success looks like
- The "sales mentality" approach within the firm and what that looks like in practice
- How to build a support infrastructure for high performers and that impact on new recruits
- How to structure a small team for success
- The key to retaining top talent that the firm needs
- Advice for senior legal marketers
As a function, legal marketing is becoming increasingly more important and plays a core role in creating impact. With this evolution, there is a greater opportunity for legal marketers to have more impact on one of the world's largest and most critical industries.
Ed Lovatt is lucky to welcome someone creating meaningful change in her legal marketing career to the CMO Series. On this episode, Ed has the pleasure of talking to Deirdre Christin, Chief Marketing Officer at Covington and Burling LLP about how legal marketers can have more impact on their firm.
Deirdre and Ed cover:
- How Deirdre came to her role at Covington and when she first recognised that ‘impact’ was so critical
- Why finding the right firm that aligns with your values is so important
- What marketers should be looking for during a recruitment process to find the right firm
- When the firm/marketer fit is right, how marketers can go about finding the right opportunity at their firm that will have an impact
- How marketers can approach buy-in within the firm when they have an impactful idea
- How to identify when something has made an impact
Marketing and business development functions within the legal world often become synonymous with one another. There are distinct differences in their roles and lessons that law firms can take from the world’s leading professional services firms when it comes to driving change.
Someone who has brought ‘Big Four’ industry experience to his role in legal is Todd Arritola, Chief Business Development Officer at Winstead. Eugene McCormick has the pleasure of sitting down with Todd to talk about the changing role of Marketing and Business Development in the modern-day law firm and how they are becoming the catalysts for business transformation.
Eugene and Todd discuss:
- Todd’s career journey, from his time in some of the Big Four accountancies to his current role at Winstead
- The key differences between Marketing & Business Development at the Big Four compared to those within legal, and the lessons that legal Marketing and BD teams can learn from outside the industry
- How Marketing and BD departments can gain that seat at the table and have a real influence on the direction of the business
- What the move to industry focus vs practice focus in legal means for Marketing and BD departments and what their role is in that movement
- The importance of having a business mindset and thinking like a business partner when it comes to clients and how BD professionals can position themselves in that way
- What a successfully positioned marketing & BD team looks like and examples of firms that are headed in the right direction
- The challenges or potential pitfalls for BD teams looking to take this approach
- Advice for legal professionals looking to take their business development practices to the next level
Marketing and business development continue to rise in importance for ambitious firms, moving the relationship between the CMO and the Managing Partner or CEO into the spotlight.
We're so grateful to dive into this topic, discussing strategic relationships at the highest level, with Daljit Doogal and Koree Khongphand-Buckman, CEO and CMBDO respectively at Foley & Lardner LLP.
Daljit and Koree share how they have established a solid relationship, enabling the marketing and BD team to progress key initiatives and elevate their efforts.
Ali, Daljit and Koree explore:
- How they first began to form a close professional relationship and realised the importance it would have in the future
- The importance for firm CEOs & Managing Partners to invest in their relationship with Marketing & BD Leaders
- What it means for the firm's Marketing and BD team to be performing to the highest level
- What a close relationship with the CEO means for the Marketing and BD functions at Foley as a whole
- How to work together in practice and typical discussion points
- Practices and habits that are particularly useful in forming an effective working relationship
- How to assess the impact of marketing and business development and the most valuable metrics
- Where the firm is heading from here and how the role of Marketing and BD at the firm is changing as part of that
- Advice for those looking to build a strong relationship between the CMO and CEO at their firm
Marketing and BD professionals have a wealth of tools and channels at their fingertips to create and share valuable thought leadership with their intended audience.
But what is often missing is the structure, strategy and process around that which enables professionals to create and publish relevant content, in a timely and efficient manner, that reaches their audience in real-time.
We’re delighted to welcome Tom Elgar, Co-founder of Passle to the CMO Series, to talk about how a new framework - the Four Pillars of Professional Services Content Marketing - will help overcome these very challenges.
Tom shares what the Four Pillars of Professional Services Content Marketing are and why they are so vital in getting thought leadership programs right.
Charlie and Tom discuss:
- The challenge or problem that the Four Pillars framework tackles
- What the Four Pillars of Content Marketing are and why they are so important and relevant to professional services firms
- What the first pillar, Author-Centric Publication, is and why it is key
- What Clear Governance looks like and why it’s so vital
- What Create Once, Publish Everywhere is in practice and how firms can get it right
- The final pillar - Relevant Feedback - why it’s important and how firms go about evidencing the impact of thought leadership
- Advice for any marketing and BD professionals looking to implement a successful content marketing program
The way firms operate day-to-day has changed. Many firms are adapting to professionals not returning to the office. With the culture of the marketing and BD department, and the broader firm, shifting, how can leaders establish an environment that engages employees, promotes productivity and keeps morale high?
Today, we are lucky enough to speak with someone well-versed in cultivating a cohesive culture within their firm, James Barclay welcomes Jen Dolan, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Katten to the CMO Series.
Jen shares how their feedback programs enable them to listen, engage and unite teams, building a healthy and successful work culture within the firm.
Jen and James discuss:
- Jen’s career journey to her role now at Katten
- Why Jen recently completed an MBA, and her experiences during that time
- How those experiences have influenced Jen’s leadership style at Katten, particularly when it comes to managing culture
- The perception of the firm’s culture eroding with teams not returning to the office, and whether that’s a misconception
- How to go about rectifying any culture challenges, such as introducing feedback programs and listening circles
- How management processes and feedback initiatives work in practice
- Notable successes of running feedback programs
- Advice for marketing and BD leaders looking to implement similar programs
Client feedback programs are nothing new to law firms. But there are a number of other ways that the CMO and marketing teams can contribute to enhancing the client service experience.
In this week’s episode of the CMO Series, Will Eke is delighted to welcome Bob Robertson, Chief Marketing Officer at Jackson Lewis to share his unique perspective on the dimensions of client service, and the role of marketing in truly serving the firm’s clients.
Will and Bob explore:
- Bob’s career and how he came to his current role at Jackson Lewis
- The point in his career he identified the opportunity for marketers to get more involved in client service
- The value marketing professionals, as opposed to dedicated client management teams, bring to the table when it comes to client service
- The factors that determine what types of service clients need and how do you identify when they need to come into play
- How, and if, the approach to client service changes when it comes to serving the larger, key accounts
- How the approach to client service can scale in the future to meet the evolving needs of clients across the board
- Advice for CMOs and marketers looking to improve their firm’s client service or implement a new client-focused program
Managing the firm’s reputation is perhaps one of the most critical roles a legal marketing function can play. Actively managing how the firm is perceived, by both internal and external stakeholders, is key to its success.
Someone with extensive experience in this area is Chris Hinze, Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer at Steptoe & Johnson. We’re so lucky to be joined by Chris in this episode of the CMO Series to discuss why reputation is critical to a law firm and the role of marketing leaders in managing the firm's reputation across all stakeholders.
Will and Chris cover:
- Chris’s journey to CMBDO at Steptoe and the point in his career it became clear that reputation management was going to be important
- The difference between Brand and Reputation
- The importance of reputation management to law firms today
- How reputation management works in practice
- What actions firms should be taking day-to-day
- How a firm can diagnose if its reputation management is performing well or poorly
- Advice for others in the legal marketing community who are managing their firm’s reputation
In this special edition of the CMO Series, Jennifer Green welcomes Robyn Addis, Chief Operating Officer & Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Legal Internet Solutions Incorporated (LISI) to the podcast to talk about her career in professional services marketing and the very personal experiences that inspired the creation of #FollowFriday and its inaugural conference.
Jennifer and Robyn discuss:
- Robyn’s background and career journey to her current role at LISI
- The catalysts for creating #FollowFriday and next year’s inaugural conference
- The importance of creating a platform and network that empowers women in professional services
- What people can expect from attending the 2023 conference
- The different ways people can get involved in Follow Friday and the conference
- The success #FollowFriday has seen so far
- Guidance for anyone interested in joining the community
The world of work has changed dramatically. People across all industries are adjusting to new ways of working, communicating and interacting. Flexible and hybrid work has become commonplace for many organisations including law firms.
On this episode of the CMO Series, Ed Lovatt is lucky to be joined by Christa Crane, Chief Client Development and Marketing Officer at Loeb and Loeb to explore what a hybrid workplace means for legal marketers and how it impacts their teams, lawyers, and the firm.
Ed and Christa discuss:
- How Christa came to her role at Loeb & Loeb and her experience with hybrid work
- The impact of mixed and hybrid working on legal marketing teams right now
- How the new way of working affects the way that firms build their brands and businesses
- How the new way of working for Loeb is having implications on the "we're all connected" tagline and what that has meant for the firm
- Implications of a hybrid or a work-from-home model that specifically or disproportionately impact marketing teams in law firms
- Advice for marketers adapting to the new way of working
Increasingly sophisticated CRM systems and data tools mean firms are now able to take a truly data-led approach to their marketing and business development activities. But with more data available than ever before, creating and implementing an effective strategy can be daunting.
Someone well-versed in utilising data to influence the direction of the firm is Mike Mellor, Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer at Pryor Cashman. Cam Dobinson is lucky enough to talk to Mike about why he is so passionate about data and how it has influenced his work at Pryor Cashman.
Cam and Mike explore:
- Mike’s passion for data and his journey to CMBDO at Pryor Cashman
- How to take a truly data-led approach to develop a strategy and recommendations for other marketing and BD professionals
- How the data-led approach at Pryor Cashman influenced the go-to-market strategy
- The challenges with managing both internal and external stakeholders and how those were overcome
- Key successes that have come off the back of this data-led approach
- Advice for any Marketing and BD professionals looking to make the switch to data-driven
With the team stretched to the limit and no end in sight to current projects, the CMO's phone rings with a new business-critical priority or project that needs to be completed ASAP. That is the reality of today's legal marketing teams and the reason behind this week’s topic on the CMO series - Agile Marketing.
Ed Lovatt is lucky to explore this subject with Lynn Tellefsen-Stehle, Co-Founder and Chief Strategist at Structura Strategy Group and former CMO and Senior Marketing Leader for Wilentz, Goldman & Spitzer, Cahill Gordon & Reindel and Dentons.
Ed and Lynn cover:
- The context in which agile marketing was born
- The technical definition of agile marketing and how it works
- How Lynn came to agile marketing and when it became so crucial to her practice
- What makes agile marketing something CMOs and marketing leaders should care about
- How well understood or leveraged agile marketing is in today's legal marketing functions
- How to go about diagnosing whether agile marketing is the solution to the problems a team is having
- Firms' readiness to adopt agile marketing
- What agile marketing looks like in practice
- The starting point for people interested in agile marketing for their firm
Today on the CMO Series, we're lucky to be joined by not one but two of Canada's top legal marketers as we take a look behind the scenes at how they create and implement successful legal marketing initiatives.
We're so happy to welcome Lenczner Slaght's marketing dream team, Lindsey Bombardier, Director, Marketing & Business Development and Adhi Reza, Manager, Marketing, to the CMO Series.
Charles Cousins has the pleasure of delving into two of the team’s most successful programs to date, ReferToHer and commerciallist.com.
Charles, Lindsey and Adhi discuss:
- How Lindsey and Adhi came to their roles at Lenczner Slaght
- What ReferToHer and commerciallist.com are and how they came about
- How to identify projects that are worth investing time and effort in and the process for getting that investment approved
- How to execute projects of this size and scale and how they were resourced
- The challenges of running complicated projects
- How to measure and report on the success of these initiatives
- Advice for others embarking on complex projects like this
As functions, marketing and business development are maturing in the legal industry. Firms have come to rely on these functions to deliver advantage and provide direction for growth.
That maturing did not happen overnight, nor did it happen without the hard work and expertise of dedicated marketing and business development professionals. Ed Lovatt is delighted to welcome Shanon Lazarus, Director of Marketing & Business Development at Bressler, Amery & Ross, to the CMO Series to discuss her journey at the firm.
Ed and Shanon cover:
- How Shanon came to the role at Bressler, Amery & Ross and how the business development team functioned at the beginning of her journey
- The gap between the current state of the firm's marketing & BD function at the beginning to where it is now and how Shanon closed that gap
- The actions and resources that were crucial to those efforts in the early days
- The point when things began to move in the right direction
- How to get support from the wider firm
- Where Shanon and the team are headed next
- Advice for those trying to move towards a more modern, effective marketing and business development function
Alumni communities have so much potential to drive success for law firms. The ability to nurture a community of current and future clients is so powerful for firms, and the ability to benefit from a valuable network holds a huge attraction for alumni.
Ali Bone is excited to welcome Jenna Grange, Chief Marketing Officer at Davis Graham & Stubbs LLP (DGS) to the CMO Series to talk about what it takes to build a successful Alumni Program.
Ali and Jenna explore:
- Jenna’s journey to CMO at DGS and how the Alumni Program came to be a success for the firm
- What the alumni program looked like in the early days compared to what it is now
- How to make an alumni program a community that people actively engage in and want to be a part of
- How to measure and report on the program
- Particular success stories from the program that has made it worthwhile
- How the "Good Deeds" program at DGS came about
- Advice for other legal marketers looking to build a successful alumni community
Many firms are looking to gain a competitive advantage by being closer to their clients, but client-facing business development roles are no longer the sole responsibility of lawyers.
On this edition of the CMO Series, Will Eke welcomes Mark Howe, Director of Business Development & Client Relations at Thompson Dorfman Sweatman LLP, to hear about his experience in a client-facing BD role and the benefits to the lawyers and the wider firm.
Will and Mark discuss:
- Mark’s current role at TDS and when client-facing work become a regular part of it
- The evolution of client-facing BD roles in legal
- Why these sorts of roles took so long to come about and what they bring to law firms
- If client-facing BD is something every firm should have and the conditions that need to be met for client-facing BD professionals to be successful
- Advice for law firms looking at implementing client facing BD roles
In the twists and turns of a career in legal marketing & BD, making the jump to CMO or CBDO stands out as possibly the most daunting.
Our guest on this episode of the CMO Series is here to discuss that step up, its challenges and lessons. Ed Lovatt is excited to welcome Kelly Harbour, Chief Business Development Officer at Goulston & Storrs to the series to share her career journey to CBDO and advice for others looking to make the leap.
Ed and Kelly discuss:
- Kelly’s current role at Goulston & Storrs and her journey to where she is now
- What it was like making the move to the role of CBDO
- How the experience of an internal promotion compares to someone coming into the role from outside the firm
- What it’s like to step into the shoes of your former CBDO
- Kelly’s experience in being a parent and managing a promotion during the pandemic and her advice for working parents taking on demanding jobs
- Advice for aspiring CMOs and CBDOs
The role of marketing in the legal industry is experiencing a series of radical changes. Our guest on this episode of the CMO Series is here to discuss the changing role of the marketing function and what that means for CMOs.
Charles Cousins is lucky to welcome Archana Venkat, Chief Marketing Officer at Trilegal to the podcast to share her journey to CMO and the transformation she is seeing in the world of legal marketing.
Charles and Archana explore:
- Archana’s journey into legal marketing and her path to CMO
- How the role of the marketing team and the CMO has changed over the course of Archana's career
- How well the role of CMO is understood in the legal industry now and how the role of the CMO is currently defined
- The key drivers for change in legal marketing
- Advice for marketers and CMOs who are having to adapt to the shift in the demands of their role
Growth, mentorship and developing the team is arguably one of the most important roles of the CMO in a firm.
Someone who has experience in successfully growing and progressing their team is Erin Dimry, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at DLA Piper.
Ali Bone is lucky to welcome Erin to the CMO Series to share their approach to mentorship and development at DLA Piper, and some of the success stories from their development programs.
Erin and Ali explore:
- Erin’s journey to her role at DLA Piper and the point at which she realised how important mentoring is
- The firm’s investment into mentorship and development and the return on that investment for the firm
- The best way to discover what development path for individual team members
- Client centricity and the development programs DLA Piper are implementing across their teams
- How to manage a development and mentoring program with a large team
- Where marketers can turn to for career advice and support
- Advice for legal marketers building their career
A career in legal marketing may mean crossing over from another industry into law, emigrating to a new country or joining a much larger and more complex firm than those you have experience in.
Whatever those challenges are, artfully crossing those lines is essential for those looking for legal marketing succes. Someone who has built a truly remarkable career in legal marketing is Gillian Ward, Global CMO at Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner.
Gillian's career has seen her move across hemispheres, between legal giants and has taken her from England’s industrial North to the towers of Houston Texas.
Gillian joins Eugene McCormick on this episode of the CMO Series to discuss:
- Gillian’s career in legal marketing and the journey from the North of England to Canada and Texas
- What the transition into a law firm was like and what Gillian found most helpful in crossing into legal successfully
- What attracted Gllian to legal marketing and whether the industry has met her expectations
- Advice for how to navigate the challenges and responsibility that come with moving up the ranks into senior roles
- What aspiring CMOs should be doing to prepare themselves for the move into marketing's top roles
- How marketers and BD professionals can adapt to a new firm
- Advice for marketers navigating difficult career transitions
We’re celebrating 50 episodes of the CMO Series podcast with a bumper edition featuring some of the key themes and conversations we’ve had with the world’s top legal Marketing and Business Development leaders over the past year. From the rise of ESG to closer client collaboration we’ve delved into the most pressing topics on the agenda for legal marketing and BD professionals today.
Step behind the scenes with the Passle team as we discuss some of the key moments of the CMO Series so far, including:
- The evolution of legal marketing featuring Norm Rubenstein Partner at Zeughauser Group and Catherine Zinn, Chief Client Officer at Baker Botts
- ESG and the role of marketing with Tamara Costa National Director, Brand and Marketing Communications at BLG
- Business development focused client collaboration with Julia Bennett, Chief Marketing Officer at Brown Rudnick
- Deep dives into successful legal marketing campaigns featuring Sophie Bowkett, Chief Marketing Officer at Bird & Bird
- How to build a career in legal marketing with Sadie Baron CMO at Reed Smith and European President of the Legal Marketing Association
Lawyers are changing. The next generation of partners have a different set of backgrounds, motivations and criteria for success than their predecessors.
We’re lucky to be joined by someone who has seen those generational differences up close. We welcome Murray Coffey, former Chief Marketing Officer at Haynes and Boone, LLP to the CMO Series to talk about adapting to and preparing the next generation of legal professionals.
Murray joins Charles Cousins, to explore:
- Murray’s professional journey and the moment he realised that the varying generations of lawyers are different
- What these generational differences mean for the future success of law firms and marketing and BD functions
- The differences, in practice, Murray is seeing from the next cohort of lawyers and what firms should be doing to prepare them for success
- Whether the next generation of lawyers are more or less likely to understand and value marketing initiatives
- How firms will know if they are building the next generation of successful legal professionals
- Advice to others preparing their firms and their next generation of lawyers for success
International expansion has been on the cards for several law firms in recent years, but few firms manage to truly think globally when it comes to their growth efforts.
We're very lucky to explore this topic with Katie Cramond, Director of Business Development International at McDermott Will & Emery on this edition of the CMO Series.
Katie joins Charles Cousins to discuss:
- Why an international outlook is so important to the growth of a law firm
- Katie’s career and deep international experience and how that has informed the opinions around the importance of an international approach to growth
- The moment when the importance of thinking internationally became clear
- How law firms are approaching this topic at the moment and opportunities for improvement
- How the idea of an international outlook plays out at McDermott Will & Emery
- The practical steps in getting the firm to think internationally
- Advice for other marketers and BD professionals looking to think more internationally
Law firms are notoriously governed by precedent and what has come before. So how do you approach managing multiple different stakeholders and voices involved in making change?
Marketing and BD professionals are, in fact, uniquely positioned to drive change and implement new initiatives that lawyers are often too busy to undertake.
Someone experienced in effecting change is Kate Pearch, Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer at Morris, Manning & Martin, LLP.
Ali Bone is lucky to have Kate on the CMO Series to discuss her approach to developing effective programs that have driven change across the firm and the learning she has gained along the way.
Kate and Ali explore:
- Kate’s journey to CMO and the moment she realised she could drive change as a legal marketer
- The role of the CMO in effecting change and how to balance change-making projects and business as usual functions within the firm
- The long-term mindset required for change-making and the processes required for that
- The programs that stand out as having been executed really well and impacted the firm
- The programs that held potential but never progressed as far as they should have and the learning taken from those experiences
- How to approach managing the multiple stakeholders and voices involved in making change
- Advice to other aspiring marketers trying to build their own skills and lead change within their firm
It’s well documented that better client-based collaboration can boost legal business development results and build stronger, lasting relationships between law firms and their clients.
What isn’t as clear is how firms can go about creating the initiatives and processes required to implement that closer collaboration.
Ed Lovatt had the pleasure of welcoming Dave Southern, who has a notable career with positions at Baker McKenzie, Baker Hostetler and most recently at Boston based Choate, Hall & Stewart, to the CMO Series to learn how greater client collaboration can lead to BD success.
In this episode Ed and Dave discuss:
- Dave’s career journey so far and how his experiences have influenced his philosophy on client collaboration
- Why closer client collaboration is so important
- How to improve the results of lateral acquistions
- How to apply this process to all clients of the firm and examples of how this has worked
- How this approach fits within the overall go-to-market strategy of the firm
- Advice for legal marketing and BD professionals looking to improve their client collaboration
As the world of work evolves, law firms face unique challenges when it comes to retaining and motivating their talent.
Someone well-versed in this field, is Amanda Schneider, Chief Marketing Officer of Epstein Becker Green, a national super boutique firm focused on healthcare and life sciences and labour and employment. Amanda staffs the firm’s Board of Directors and plays a strategic role in the Deloitte Legal and Epstein Becker Green alliance to provide global workforce solutions.
Amanda joins Jennifer Green on this edition of the CMO Series, to discuss workplace cultures, opportunities and strategies to help law firm leaders retain their people amid a rapidly changing market.
Jennifer and Amanda explore:
- How to create a culture that retains employees even with ‘the great resignation’ at play
- The opportunities for team building and development born out of the pandemic
- How the Marketing and BD team add value to the firm’s culture to provide greater attorney and staff retention
- How ‘the great resignation’ has impacted legal marketing and business development departments
- The potential challenges in the next phase of hybrid work and the opportunities that have come from what we’ve endured
- How clients are impacted by the current workforce trends
- Advice for other legal marketing leaders facing the challenges of the new ways of working
In part two of our conversation with Amanda Bruno, Chief Business Development Officer and Debra Hare, Director of BD Coaching and Training, at Morgan Lewis, Ali Bone delves into the detail of how to identify the right BD training programs to invest in, and how to measure their success.
Amanda and Debra discuss:
- How to recognise which programs to launch and invest in
- How to track and measure the success of these programs
- The impact of the pandemic on delivering the various BD programs at the firm
- Advice for those looking to be successful in the long term in legal marketing and BD
Catch part one of the conversation with Amanda and Debra here, where they share how their unique experiences and approach to innovation ensure future BD success at the firm.
It’s often thought that law firms are traditionally slow to move and innovate. Legal BD and marketing professionals know that doesn’t have to be the case. The most successful firms are those that can balance long term thinking with agile innovation.
To talk about this, we welcome Amanda Bruno, Chief Business Development Officer and Debra Hare, Director of BD Coaching and Training, both at Morgan Lewis, to the CMO Series. In part one of the conversation, Amanda and Debra discuss how their unique experiences and approach to innovation ensures future BD success at the firm.
Listen in as we explore:
- Amanda and Debra’s journeys to their respective roles at Morgan Lewis and their current remits
- The unique perspectives they each bring to the firm, and the specific experiences that add value to their roles
- Amanda’s responsibility for driving business development throughout the firm on a global scale and the enablers that help her do that
- Training initiatives and programs that have been particularly successful
Clients are demanding more from their external legal advisors in terms of their ESG policies. This has had a knock-on effect for legal brands. Firms need to demonstrate that they are more capable, more responsible and most importantly more human if they are to succeed.
Someone who’s recently been on a journey of updating a legal brand that both reflects the current market and aligns with their own values, is Sophie Bowkett, Chief Marketing Officer at Bird & Bird.
Charles Cousins is so lucky to hear Sophie’s insights off the back of their intensive rebrand to understand what it really means to build a more effective, human legal brand.
Sophie and Charles discuss:
- The concept behind Bird & Bird's recent rebrand and why becoming ‘more human’ was so important
- What prompted Sophie and the firm to look at transforming the brand
- The challenges, if any, in bringing the partnership around to the idea of reworking the brand in such a progressive way
- How you ensure the entire firm, globally, understands and is able to communicate the new brand narrative
- Parts of the process that have been particularly successful
- Advice for legal marketing folks assessing how their own brand reflects the firm and its people
Legal marketing functions have experienced rapid and significant changes in response to the global events of recent years, arguably the most transformative period in their history.
This accelerated pace of change brings challenges and opportunities. The role of the CMO is to make sure that the team is ready to navigate those changes and make the most of the opportunities on offer.
To discuss these changes and how marketing leaders can best equip their teams for success, we welcome Sadie Baron, Chief Marketing Officer at Reed Smith and President of the Legal Marketing Association, Europe, to the CMO Series.
Connor and Sadie explore:
- The current legal marketing environment and how it compares with other points in Sadie’s legal marketing career?
- How well legal marketing teams are equipped to operate in the current environment
- How to structure and resource your teams to be effective given the current opportunities & challenges
- The red flags that suggest a function might not be totally equipped for the current environment
- The search for talent and advice for CMOs trying to keep their teams together and fill empty vacancies
- How well prepared individual marketers are for the dynamic, shifting market
- How team members can close their own personal skills gaps to take advantage of the opportunities the current market offers
- Initiatives and programs that are equipping the function as a whole
- Advice for those legal professionals looking to equip their people for success
There is a consensus that data can be used more impactfully by legal marketers and BD professionals. The fact that data is important is undisputed, however, the best practice for actually using data day-to-day as part of marketing and BD efforts is not as well understood.
We're lucky to be discussing that with Sarah-Jane Howitt, Partner at Weightmans on this edition of the CMO Series. Sarah-Jane is responsible for the firm's client relationship management, new business creation and communications and joins Charles Cousins to talk about their data-driven approach to effective BD.
Sarah-Jane and Charles explore:
- Weightmans’ approach to data and how it’s changed since Sarah-Jane joined the firm
- Why a data-driven approach is a strength for the firm when it is such a challenge for many other firms
- What it took to make data available & useful across the firm
- How BD & Marketing professionals at Weightmans use data day-to-day
- The interactions lawyers and partners have with data
- The other ways the firm is using data today that are really valuable
- Advice to CMOs looking to make data one of their strengths
The skills and capabilities that Business Development training delivers are critical to the success of lawyers and their firms, yet every firm takes a slightly different approach to coaching.
To talk about some of the assumptions that are potentially holding firms back, Cam Dobinson is lucky to welcome Jennifer Griffin Scotton, Director of Marketing and BD at Brooks Pierce, to the CMO Series.
Cam and Jennifer discuss:
- The assumptions some firms make in their approach to building BD capabilities and the benefit of starting lawyers earlier on BD training programs
- The impact of starting that training & skills development too late
- How the industry is addressing the problem
- How to identify and assist the lawyers that need BD support
- The assumption that new lawyers understand the economics, personalities and processes that keep a law firm running
- Solutions to help distribute the business knowledge that lawyers need
- Advice for those looking to improve their firm's approach to BD skills development
In this edition of the CMO Series, we delve into the philosophies, lessons and stories from one of legal marketing's most inspirational leaders.
Jennifer Green is delighted to welcome Marianne Talbot, Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer at Bailey & Glasser, LLP to the podcast to talk about her experiences in nurturing and motivating the great people she’s had the pleasure of working with during her extensive career in law.
Jennifer and Marianne explore:
- Marianne’s career to date, from the civil rights movement to the 2008 global financial crisis, and why she chose the role of legal CMO
- Marianne's personal motivations as a CMO, entrepreneur and activist and how she helps others find those big reasons for their own motivation
- How Marianne helps others identify what they want to have and not just what they can have during their careers and lives
- How to encourage people to think about how they can be more of themselves and why it’s important for them to consider
- Why Marianne encourages lawyers to brag about the things they are proud of and how that influences their day job
- Advice for other legal marketers looking to motivate and inspire their people
Legal marketing is different from any other industry, there are unique challenges and constraints that you don't find anywhere else. With that being said, there are a lot of lessons law firms can learn from outside of legal. One area to apply those lessons will be the top of nearly every managing partner's priority list - client engagement.
To dive into this further, Ed Lovatt is lucky to welcome Paula Zirinsky to the CMO series, former global CMO and Co-founder and Chief Strategist at Structura Strategy Group. Paula shares her experience and insight on how to take client engagement to the next level.
Together, Ed and Paula explore:
- Paula’s career inside and outside of the legal space and how those roles influenced her thinking around client engagement
- The perception of client engagement within law firms and among lawyers
- The idea of romancing clients and prospects and some examples from Paula’s experience
- How lawyers can cultivate relationships and the dos and don’ts of client engagement
- Why saying ‘thank you’ doesn’t go far enough and the ways firms can engage in a more meaningful way
- Advice for other Marketing and BD professionals looking to up their client engagement game
A full transcript of this episode is available at passle.net
For anyone seeking legal counsel there are a whole host of highly capable firms on hand to help. But increasing competition and evermore sophisticated BD and marketing strategies make it essential for lawyers to set themselves apart and gain prominence in their field.
Social media and content marketing present a whole world of opportunity for legal CMOs and their lawyers when it comes to leveraging networks and enhancing their personal brands.
Lee Watts is someone who knows all about this. With 20 years’ experience working in legal marketing, and most recently 8 years as CMO at Smith Gambrell Russell, Lee has a wealth of knowledge when it comes to differentiating your brand in the market.
Eugene McCormick is lucky to catch up with Lee to hear about her latest endeavour as an independent marketing consultant, and her own experiences in developing personal brands, from lawyers to her own.
Lee and Eugene cover:
- Lee’s journey as a legal CMO and how she arrived at the decision to set up her own independent marketing business
- The challenges and successes Lee has experienced since setting up her own consultancy
- The power of networking and building relationships when to comes to developing your personal brand
- Advice for CMOs looking to make to take that next step in setting up on their own
The legal industry is built on precedent. It's important for firms, and for Business Development professionals in particular, to challenge the established ways of doing things if there are better options available.
This week’s guest is someone who often challenges the assumptions of the legal marketing and BD industry. Will Eke is delighted to welcome Bree Metherall, Director of Business Development and Marketing for Stoel Rives LLP to the CMO Series.
Listen in, as Will and Bree discuss:
- Why questioning established practice, and asking "why?" is so important to successful marketing and business development
- The point in Bree’s career that it became clear just how important it is to ask "why?"
- Specific practices that Bree thinks could use closer scrutiny into why they still exist
- Examples of when asking "why?" was done well and to good effect
- How to balance the need to do a good job for internal clients with the need to challenge established practices
- Advice for other legal Marketing & BD professionals
Success in legal Business Development sometimes happens by accident, but the days when firms could get by without an effective BD strategy are long gone.
Someone who is pushing the envelope when it comes to developing legal BD best practice is David Bruns, Director of Client Services at Farella, Braun + Martel. Alistair Bone is lucky to be joined by David on this episode of the CMO Series podcast to hear his insights on how to get to the legal BD win.
David discusses his approach to BD and the importance of understanding and celebrating the little wins throughout the journey.
Tune in as Ali and David explore:
- What it means to get a win in terms of BD
- How David’s approach and philosophy around BD has evolved throughout his career
- Why a process for BD is so important for lawyers
- What a typical BD process looks like
- Where to turn to for best practice on how to build a BD plan, how to adapt that best practice to fit the needs of the firm
- How to guide your team along the stages of the BD plan
- The BD successes that showcase why having a process is critical for a firm
- Why BD as a function has grown in influence throughout the legal industry
- Advice for those reassessing their own BD approach
No two lawyers are the same, yet business development coaching often seems to put lawyers through the same process.
On this episode of the CMO Series, Charles Cousins is lucky to be joined by Susanne Mandel, Chief Business Development & Marketing Officer at Lowndes, to discuss why we need to rethink this ‘one-size-fits-all’ approach, and how to implement a more tailored training program across your firm.
Susanne shares the trials and tribulations of running an ambitious, bespoke coaching program and how the firm has refined the approach with notable success.
Listen in as Charles and Susanne discuss:
- Why a ‘one-size-fits-all’ approach to BD training might not be ideal
- What makes a tailored BD program more effective
- The process for building a BD program around the needs of your people
- The challenges in running multiple programs simultaneously
- Key successes that have made the program worthwhile
- Advice for others developing their own BD training program
Ambitious firms rely on and demand more from their marketing teams, putting pressure on stretched marketers to achieve more and to scale the effectiveness of the marketing team.
On this edition of the CMO Series, James Barclay is lucky to be joined by Karen Wilcox, Marketing Director at Taylor English, to share her insight on how marketing leaders can develop their teams to meet the growth ambitions of the firm. Karen discusses the firm’s ‘lean and mean’ model and how this approach works in practice.
Listen in as James and Karen explore:
- Karen’s own experience in growing a marketing function and how that has informed the approach at Taylor English
- How marketing leaders can get the job done with the increasing demands from their firm and constraints around staff
- How Taylor English’s unique approach to bringing suppliers, contractors, consultants and firm staff together as a proper team has been so effective
- How to define priorities within the strategy and decide what is an internal focus vs something external help is used for
- Advice for marketers in ambitious and demanding firms trying to scale their marketing efforts
In this bonus edition of the CMO Series, Eugene McCormick chats to Brenda Plowman, CMO at Fasken and President of the Legal Marketing Association, ahead of the LMA Annual Conference 2022.
Brenda shares what you can expect from this year’s conference - the world’s largest education event for legal marketing and business development professionals - which takes place from 21- 23 March in Las Vegas.
This year’s conference ‘Stretch Beyond, Together’ will offer fresh insights under four key themes, along with a stellar line up of keynote speakers and a jam-packed program.
The event promises to deliver innovative new ideas, the opportunities to connect, learn and grow together with the leading voices in legal marketing, helping take the entire industry forward.
There’s still time to get involved in LMA ‘22, take a look at the program and find out more, here.
The function of marketing is becoming more central to the growth and success of law firms, with marketers and BD professionals becoming key influencers in the strategic direction of their firms.
Ali Bone is delighted to be joined by Catherine Zinn, Chief Client Officer at Baker Botts on the CMO Series, to share her insight on how Marketing and BD leaders are gaining a ‘seat at the table’ and the importance of these roles in a firm’s leadership.
Ali and Catherine discuss:
- The role of marketing and BD in a firm’s leadership and Catherine’s own experiences
- The importance of mindset when it comes to the discussion around contributing to the direction of a law firm and how senior marketers and BD professionals can adopt that mindset
- The importance of empowerment and leadership, with market and client knowledge at the core
- How marketing and BD professionals can go about gaining the client knowledge they need to add value to their firm
- The importance of law firm leaders in participating in other roles outside of their work, such as on boards, volunteering in leadership capacities or working on behalf of causes or organisations beyond their firm
- How the role of marketing and BD in law firms is set to evolve over the next few years
- Advice to senior marketers wanting to have more say in the direction of their firms
The legal industry is becoming more competitive across the board. Growth-minded firms are exploring new geographies, industries and strategies to succeed.
Much of this competition has come from highly capable and increasingly ambitious regional firms. Our guest joining Charles Cousins on this edition of the CMO Series podcast is someone who has been advancing best practice in this area.
We’re lucky to be joined by Tina Emerson, Chief Marketing Officer at Nexsen Pruet, to hear how their firm is succeeding in its regional market.
Charles and Tina discuss:
- How to build your understanding of what it takes to drive success in your market
- How the way that law firms market and grow themselves has changed over the last decade or so, and what the competitive landscape for the legal industry looks like now
- What it takes for ambitious mid-market firms to grow in the current market
- How Nexsen Pruet are approaching growth and specific activities that have been particularly successful
- Advice for other marketers looking to succeed in a challenging market
Even before the events of the last couple of years, law firms have seen a shift in the role and importance of Marketing and Business Development.
Our guest joining us on this week’s edition of the CMO Series has a deep understanding of this shift. Ali Bone welcomes Norm Rubenstein, Partner at Zeughauser Group, to discuss the changing role of marketing and BD in law firms and how firms are reacting to the accelerated changes prompted by the events of the last few years.
Ali and Norm discuss:
- How the position and role of marketing changed for law firms over the course of the last three decades
- How technology has changed the way firms market, from websites and social media to sophisticated data analysis
- The key drivers that have caused this shift in marketing and BD
- The distinction between firms that appreciate marketing and those that don’t
- How firms can tell if they are being left behind with regard to their marketing efforts
- Advice to marketers looking to navigate changes in their function
Passle's CEO, James Barclay, hands-over to Jessica Haarsgaard, Business Development Manager at Burr and Forman and Member-at-Large to the 2022 LMA Board of Directors and Kathryn Whitaker, Chief Marketing Officer at Burr and Forman, on this CMO Series Takeover.
In this special edition of the podcast Jessica and Kathryn delve into what makes Burr and Forman stand out from the crowd and how the efforts of the marketing department align with the firm’s overall strategy.
Kathryn shares her unique insight, comparing her experience in politics to running an effective legal marketing function and how to leverage the skills within the team to successfully deliver on the firm’s strategic goals.
Listen in as Jessica and Kathryn discuss:
- What differentiates Burr and the efforts of the department to align with the overall strategy
- How they’re taking their client relations efforts ‘to the next level’
- How utilising emotional intelligence, communication and collaboration can encourage the Marketing and BD team to effectively navigate and influence strategic goals
- Strategies that help play to your team members’ individual strengths
- How Kathryn’s experience in running for Senate has helped her lead the marketing department and obtain buy-in from attorneys
- Advice for other marketers looking to align their activities with the firm’s strategy
A legal client's experience is defined by conversations between individuals, one-to one-emails and all the small micro-interactions that happen every day between that client and their law firm. This creates an unenviable challenge of CMOs, CBDOs and Chief Client Officers. No matter how sound your client experience strategy is, the entire firm at all levels needs to commit to it for it to be successful.
Will Eke is lucky to be joined by Angela Quinn, Chief Client Officer at Husch Blackwell in this special edition of the CMO Series. Angela deep-dives into the firm's Power of One initiative, sharing insight on how it helped achieve a better experience for their clients.
Together, they explore:
- What the Power of One initiative was and how it came about
- The expectations of the event and the outcomes for client experience
- How to ensure that everyone is contributing to and engaging with the initiative
- Key elements of the event that contributed to its success
- Outcomes of the event 12 months on, and its impact on the firm
- Advice for others looking to bring their firm together around the client experience
Despite being a firm's most valuable asset, best practice around building a legal brand is very much lacking. In this episode of the CMO Series, Alistair Bone is lucky to be joined by a legal marketer setting the best practises around law firm identities and brands.
Valerie Brennan, Chief Marketing Officer at Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP, has been on the journey of defining the firm's brand multiple times and brings us her expertise on how to build a brand that effectively reflects and influences the clients, capabilities and goals of the firm.
On the podcast, Valerie shares:
- Why brand is central to marketing in all industries and the defining factors which are unique to legal marketing, plus her own experience with law firm brands
- What makes an effective legal brand and how firms can begin to identify what their brand should be
- What the key influences are that firms should take into consideration when planning for their brand
- The outputs firms should expect from undertaking a branding exercise
- The first steps in rolling a brand project out to the wider firm
- How marketing teams can achieve buy-in and the consensus needed to start, and then implement the brand changes
- Best practice tools to support any firm’s branding project
- The biggest challenges and stumbling blocks in any branding exercise
- Advice for marketers considering this kind of project
In today's competitive market, Business Development is key to a successful career as a lawyer, and anyone striving to become a partner is expected to have a flexible attitude to business and, more importantly, winning it. However, on a busy day, BD activities can often take the back burner, and move down the list of priorities.
On this week’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we're thrilled to be joined by Marisa Gonzalez Eubanks, Director of Marketing at RumbergerKirk to discuss how to encourage and motivate your lawyers to stay on top of their Business Development activities.
Charles and Marisa cover:
- How BD and Marketing professionals have been positioned as the trusted experts within RumbergerKirk
- How to support new associates in developing their BD skills when they join the firm
- How to encourage lawyers to write regular content
- Top tips and tricks to motivate lawyers to stay on top of regular BD activities
- How can lawyers accelerate BD in a digital first world
- Advice for marketers and BD professionals on how to encourage and motivate lawyers to take part in BD activities
Ambitious marketers are hungry to deliver value and growth for the firms they work for. Those marketers are more influential, and have set new standards for best practice across the industry. In this edition of the CMO Series, Charles Cousins is lucky to be joined by Erin Corbin Meszaros, Chief Business Development and Client Services Officer to discuss how marketers are adapting to meet the challenges of the legal industry.
Tune in as Erin and Charles discuss:
- How the role of marketing in law firms has changed from a supporting function to a key strategic growth
- What is driving these changes and how this change has been driven by marketers and BD professionals
- How the shift in expectations for marketers and BD professionals has affected the skills and mentality needed to be successful
- What CMOs and leaders need to be doing to empower their departments to meet the current demands of the industry
- Advice for ambitious marketers & BD professionals trying to be successful in this industry
Environmental, social and governance considerations are becoming ubiquitous in legal client requirements and RFPs. Firms are finding their own internal policies under scrutiny during the buying process. The position of marketing within the ESG space is not clearly defined, which is why Charles Cousins is lucky to be joined by Tamara Costa, National Director of Brand and Marketing Communications at BLG, on the latest edition of the CMO Series Podcast.
In this episode, Charles and Tamara discuss:
- What ESG is and what it means for the marketing and growth of law firms
- The role of the CMO and the wider marketing team in a law firm's ESG initiative
- What clients are expecting in regards to ESG, and how are BLG responding to those requirements
- How to create a culture where everyone understands the firm's ESG values and can communicate them effectively
- How firms are responding to ESG requirements and the challenges they face
- How CMOs & legal marketers can respond effectively to ESG challenges
Business development is a relatively new career path. Knowing exactly how to build a career and what is best practice for establishing yourself in the industry is not easy for business development professionals at any stage of their career.
In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is thrilled to be joined by Laura Nicholls, Chief Business Development Officer at Ashurst, to discuss what it takes to build a great career in legal business development.
Will and Laura cover:
- How Laura came to her career in business development, and what it was that drew her to the legal industry
- Whether the decision to build a career in legal business development was a conscious one and if being more deliberate about career choices is something that other BD professionals could benefit from
- The roadmap for career progression in legal business development and what BD professionals can do to advance their careers
- The best ways to learn the skills and knowledge that you need to be effective in legal business development and the most valuable resources for learning best practice
- Advice to help aspiring BD professionals get a seat at the table and have an impact with their work
Business development, despite being key to a successful career as a lawyer, is often misunderstood by the legal profession. In this episode of the CMO Series, Charles Cousins is lucky to be joined by Mark Hunter, Director of Client Development and Marketing at Hicks Morley, to discuss what it takes in practice to build effective business development skills in lawyers.
Tune in, as Charles and Mark discuss:
- The purpose and place of business development within a law firm
- The challenges of delivering business development training as one-off sessions and how training should be delivered in an ideal world
- The future of training at Hicks Morley - the firm's investment in time and resources into the long term program and how you build consensus for such an investment within the firm
- How BD trainers should ensure that momentum turns into behavioural change at scale
- How to use the success of former students as motivation and best practice for future programs
- Advice for marketers and business development professionals looking to improve their firm’s BD training
In 2020, Forbes Solicitors launched a new cornerstone campaign, the Reinvention and Resilience Top 50. The initiative recognised businesses in the North West of England that had created new ways of generating revenue, protected jobs or reinvented the way they operated, during the pandemic.
Charles Cousins is excited to be joined by Andrea Stamp, Director of Marketing and Business Development at Forbes Solicitors, to discuss the campaign, its objectives and results and how others can learn from their success.
Listen in as Charles and Andrea cover:
- How the campaign come about and and the business objectives
- The impact the initiative has seen after two years of running
- How they ensured the success of the campaign and reached the right audience
- The considerations around linking the campaign to work
- Advice for other marketing professionals planning their next big campaign
Every firm is trying to get closer to clients and build their profile in particular industries.
In this episode, Will Eke, Senior VP at Passle, is lucky to be joined by Lee Garfinkle, Chief Client Development and Relationship Officer at Goodwin, who discusses how their industry-focused strategy is enabling them to support their clients further, not only with legal issues, but with business and operational challenges.
In this edition, Will and Lee explore:
- How an industry-focused approach makes Goodwin stand out in the crowd
- How this approach work in practice and what has been established as part of the strategy
- Communications strategy to demonstrate industry eminence and how the approach works for winning new clients
- Successes of this approach that showcase how the firm's strategy is working
- How other client development and relationship officers can take this approach
In this episode of the CMO series, Alistair Bone of Passle is joined by Kalisha Crawford of Ropers Majeski to discuss the challenges of making data work for your firm.
Despite the importance of data and its availability for legal marketers, there isn't a clear best practice on how to leverage data to add value to the wider firm. Yet.
Someone who is focusing on the value of data and how to get the most value from theirs is Kalisha Crawford, Director of Marketing & Business Development at Ropers Majeski. Ali and Kalisha explore: * How to tackle the potential for data to be an overwhelming and complicated challenge for CMOs * How to identify what data is relevant to input into the firm's strategy * The priority areas for law firms and where data can add the most value * How to make data work for the firm with incomplete or less than perfect data * What skills and knowledge CMOs need to make effective use of their data
Episode 18 - Beth Huffman, Director of Marketing at Nelson Mullins on attracting, developing & retaining top marketing talent.
In this episode of the podcast, Will Eke is joined by Beth Huffman to discuss how to approach talent as a marketing leader in a law firm.
They cover:
- The difference between the right talent and the wrong talent in the marketing team
- What kind of experience and attitude makes great professional services marketers
- How professional development works at Nelson Mullins?
- How leaders can balance the individual interests of their team whilst developing capabilities that will benefit the firm
- How far should a firm go to retain top marketing talent
- What "success" look like for retaining your best people
In this episode of the podcast, Will Eke is joined by Amy Shepherd, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Ballard Spahr.
Together they discuss the duties of care for Marketing leaders in law firms, covering:
- The core responsibility and duties of marketers
- The responsibility and duty of the CMO to their team
- What a good support network looks like for a CMO
In this episode of the podcast Eugene McCormick is joined by James Stapleton, Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer at Blank Rome. They address:
- Why James is so passionate about the numbers
- The difference in culture between law and accounting firms
- The activities which are most effective in terms of ROI
- How to spread marketing and BD efforts across a company and make it a companywide culture
In this episode of the podcast Eugene McCormick is joined by Carolyn Manning, Chief marketing and Business Development Officer at Mintz. They address:
- How Mintz is ‘punching above their weight’
- Whether the ‘brand’ matches up to where they are as a firm
- How to begin the process of building a brand
- How to move your brand from being a ‘hidden gem’ to well recognised
In this episode of the podcast Alistair Bone is joined by Julie Henson, Chief Client Officer at Taft Stettinius & Hollister LLP. They address:
- The role of a Chief Client Officer in a modern law firm
- Tactics to build trust and add value in the legal community
- How Client relationships evolve beyond initial client interviews
- Effective ways Julie has contributed to the overall strategy at her firm
- Advice for others trying to be the voice of their clients in their firm
In this episode of the podcast Charles Cousins is joined by Craig Budner, Global Strategic Growth Partner at K&L they address:
- The role of a Global Strategic Growth Partner
- The strategy behind launching the K&L Client Conversations podcast
- The main opportunities for growth at an International Law Firm
- What marketing and BD teams can do to support lawyers to develop client relationships at scale
- Lateral hiring and the necessary qualities of a candidate
- One piece of advice for people looking to grow their firms
In this episode of the podcast, Will Eke is joined by Despina Kartson, CMO at BakerHostetler.
Will and Despina discuss business development leadership in a challenging professional services landscape. They address:
- What leadership looks like in practice
- Managing a team remotely during a pandemic
- The best structure for BD teams
- Advice to professional services marketers facing their own leadership challenges
In this episode of the podcast, Will Eke is joined by Julia Bennett, CMO at Brown Rudnick.
Will and Julia discuss the missing piece in law firms’ relationships with clients. They address:
- Having friends with in-house counsel as a marketeer
- The shift from service provider to valued ally
- Strengthening client connections
- Advice to CMO’s wanting to establish connections with clients
For marketing and business development teams to have a real impact on the growth of their firms is so important for them to have a voice in the strategic decision making within the firm.
We're excited to cover this topic today on the CMO series with Susan Ahern, Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer at Clark Hill. Susan has transformed the way that the Marketing & BD teams operate within Clarke Hill, especially in the way that these teams deliver and demonstrate value to the firm.
Will Eke hosts as he and Susan address: * The role for Marketing & BD as decision-makers influencing the direction of the firm * The coveted 2020 "Best Marketing Initiative" award at the Managing Partners' Forum & the valuable data that helped secure it * Susan's philosophy in creating a culture to support delivering * The key to bringing the partnership around to the difficult decisions needed for growth * The most important piece of advice for CMO's & marketers looking to influence the future of the firm
In this episode of the podcast, Will Eke is joined by Alessandra Almedia Jones, Director of Marketing at Baker McKenzie.
Will and Alessandra discuss how marketers can incorporate diversity and inclusion thinking into their core function of driving growth, they touch on where marketers can influence their firm and how to move beyond lip service to such a critical movement.
For many legal and professional services becoming a trusted advisor to clients is the holy grail. But, actually, on an individual level, it is nice to get recognition for your subject matter expertise and be the trusted advisor in your field.
We caught up with Rippan Vig, Director of Client & Strategic Development at Watson Farley & Williams to ask her how can Marketing, Business Development and Communications teams make a shift, and position themselves as trusted advisors within their firms.
Rippan shares some fantastic insight into how demonstrating your expertise and value can build peoples trust in you, and how data & feedback can play a key part in this process.
In the conversation Rippan also talks about 'practising what you preach' and the same processes that you would use build relationships externally with clients can also be used with your internal clients i.e the lawyers.
In this episode of the CMO series, Sam Page is joined by Eva Wisnik, Author & Founder of Wisnik Career Enterprises (www.wisnik.com) to discuss the state of the talent market for Marketing & Business Development in Professional Services.
Wisnik are THE go-to talent firm in the Legal Marketing & Business Development space having worked with 86 of the AmLaw 100 firms nationwide and having placed over 1,000 professionals in the last 25 years.
Sam & Eva cover the following in their chat:
- In terms of the talent market for marketing and Business Development in professional services, what are you seeing at the moment?
- What skills are most in-demand for firms at the moment? What can candidates do to demonstrate they have those in-demand skills?
- We’re going through a “back to the office” transition where people are considering their current positions. What are you recommending to leaders do to retain their best talent and help them?
- What would be your one piece of advice to those looking to position themselves for success in the talent market?
Enjoy listening and thank you Eva!
During this podcast we discuss how professional services marketing differs from traditional b2c/b2b and we ask Yasemin what her marketing philosophy is. We explore how Yasemin defines and measures success for the team and the business and this extends into Yasemin's favourite marketing execution to date.
Yasemin Baird is the Head of Marketing at leading property consultants, Montagu Evans in London.
A key takeaway from our conversation was how Yasemin's (and Montagu Evans) leadership revolves around transparency and clear communication. Whether that was for their rebrand, sharing objectives/success internally or the current rapidly changing world we live in. I have no doubt this has lead to their business success.
To close, Yasemin explained that her piece of advice for marketers building their careers would be to be flexible in your role, communicate well and learn when to say yes or no.
In this episode of the podcast we caught up with Barbara Koenen-Geerdink, Global Head of BD & Marketing at Ince, and author of 'Beyond Billable Hours: Your guide to career success in professional services firms' to ask her how individuals in Business Development and Marketing roles can support fee earners in their BD activities.
Barbara talks about the importance of strategy and planning and making sure that each individual activity, be it an event, conference, sponsorship etc aligns with the overall strategy of the firm. Part of this is helping fee earners to understand the return on investment of their efforts.
Barbara also gives some insight on how to do this at scale discussing the importance of ownership from individual sector BD leads and empowering the fee earner who "have some fantastic ideas" to action them.
To close, Barbara explained that you don't need to re-invent the wheel, you can focus on what you are doing well as a firm and try to do that better. Often there are opportunities right in front of you - low hanging fruits - and this is a good place to focus efforts.
In this episode of the podcast, Eugene McCormick is joined by Kimberley Rennick, Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer for the Americas at Allen and Overy.
Eugene and Kimberly discuss the art and science of marketing and how marketers are using data alongside market knowledge to deliver the right content to the right people at the right time.
Content is King, but for Professional Services Marketers thought leadership is difficult. The in-depth market knowledge required makes it hard to write effective content.
We spoke to Barney O'Kelly, Founder and Managing Director of Hagen Communications and expert in Professional Services Marketing to find out more about how marketers can create effective, client-focused content that drives engagement.
In this episode of the podcast, Eugene McCormick is joined by Kevin Iredell, CMO at Lowenstein Sandler to discuss technology and the transformation that legal businesses are currently undergoing.
Eugene and Kevin discuss the challenges facing firms, where legal businesses need to improve and what the legal profession will look like in 5 years time.
Amidst the chaos of 2020 there were many valuable lessons to be had for marketers. Rebecca Edwards, Marketing & Business Development Manager at Williams Mullen joins us on the podcast to discuss what professional services marketing can learn from 2020 and how to approach 2021.