Pearls & Swine Podcast: Recent Episodes
Kelly Dehnert
Bringing Hope and Healing to Targets of Abusive Leadership in Christian Organizations. Giving voice to our blogs!
Have you come to know of abuse? Has your friend told you a little of their boss or husband's abusive behavior? Scripture tells us we have a responsibility.
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Whether the toxic leader has a personality disorder, or is better diagnosed as an “abuser,” which is not the same thing according to some psychologists, they are exceptional manipulators and refuse to humbly admit their failures.
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In my own experience with toxic leaders, it was common to hear 1 Peter 2:18 quoted or paraphrased by those who wished to protect the authority of leaders. Does 1 Peter 2 mean that we blindly submit to church and parachurch leaders though they be described as liars, mean, narcissistic, and other nasty characteristics by their followers?
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How do the church and parachurch organizations create toxic work environments? If we know the answer to that question, maybe - just maybe - we can save our witness to a watching world from the pit!
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How should the target of a supervisor's abuse "love" him, "do good" to him, and "bless" him? I would suggest Jesus is giving examples of the principle Paul stated elsewhere that we are not to "repay...evil for evil."
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John finds it inexplicable that “in America we are in the land of the free and home of the brave, but when [a worker’s] liberty is at stake they fail to exercise their liberty.”
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Leaders may begin well. The LORD has given them vision for the organization they have been tasked with leading. But, in time they begin to drink the koolaid of power and self-sufficiency.
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Toxic leadership almost always involves heightened anxiety caused by a fear of losing status or a position of leadership resulting in anger, defensiveness, and blame-shifting when confronted.
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There are those leaders who are simply bad. They are toxic to their core and they reap destruction in the workplace. But, there are leaders who begin well and end badly.
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What should be second nature to Christian organizations has, in some ways, been purloined by business leadership. Teamwork.
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Abuse often lives in a system. Christians are suspicious of systems theory because they think in a “western individualistic” way. However, sometimes, Groupthink is what enables and creates toxic organizations.
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Christians read the Psalms and find statements that seem to conflict with the open-hearted, mercy-oriented, forgiveness-driven Gospel we preach from our pulpits. But the "imprecatory Psalms" are as valid now as they were when they were sung in Old Testament worship.
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Self-differentiation is rooted in biblical and psychological concepts. We need go no further than to focus on the examples of Jesus and King David to illustrate dependence and trust in God as necessary to use our gifting.
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King Solomon was maybe the wisest king of all time, How did it all end and what does it teach leaders today?
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What do you do with an apology from a abusive leader? Real apologies are rare due to inner evil. But we are not omniscient so give it time.
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Standing by abuse victims is vital for all. Jonathan's experience with his father, Saul demonstrates the difficulty of identifying toxic leadership in those with whom we are close.
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The struggle for validation and vindication in the face of abusive leadership is echoed in Psalms, encouraging patience and trust in God's righteous judgment. The remedy lies in turning to God's Word—Jesus—for healing and endurance.
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A leader boasting in weaknesses can demonstrate humility and reliance on Christ's strength, distinguishing good leadership from toxic leadership. Without humility there is just no way.
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Jacob served under a pastor he considered narcissistic, who prioritized money, fame, and favoring wealthy members. Despite being fired, Jacob found healing and continued his ministry journey.
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The book of Job highlights misguided counseling of abuse victims rooted in black-and-white beliefs, instead of comprehensive biblical theology. Abuse victims are never at fault.
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Zechariah warns of punishment for wicked leaders, calling them to repentance. God ultimately brings judgment and restoration through Jesus. Toxic leaders need to be warned.
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It is a sin to fail to act against abuse. Unfortunately, it is all too common for bystanders in the workplace to stand by the toxic boss. Rather, standing up for the victims is essential, despite fears and pressures.
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Over twenty years ago, my wife and I began considering how we could be used in the cross-cultural mission field. We made the move. It was our first experience with toxic leadership.
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Peter's words for those struggling with abusive or controlling tendencies emphasize the need for inner transformation and repentance.
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The Bible may not include the term "abuse" in some translations, but it uses various words that convey the concept, emphasizing the seriousness and destructive nature of abuse.
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We receive grace through criticism. Sixteen-year-old Uzziah ascended to the leadership of Judah after his father’s demise and reigned righteously for much of his 52-year rule. However, his arrogance led to his ruin.
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What happens down, deep within you when your subordinates, or even friends, begin to praise your holy name? Does your heart rise up and meet their praises with praises of its own? Does your heart congratulate itself and take on new proportions?
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The dangers of ego and hypocrisy often come into play when titles are a means of image control. It takes the self-examination of motives to avoid toxic leadership and maintain genuine integrity and character within all our spheres of influence.
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Jesus, after performing the miracle of raising Lazarus from the dead, gained followers, threatening the authority of the chief priests and Pharisees. These abusive leaders plotted to both kill Lazarus and defame Jesus to maintain their control. They, like other abusive leaders, used a variety of tactics to suppress the truth and protect their image.
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Christian leaders struggle maintaining their faith and integrity and King Asa of Judah is a good case study. Asa's godly leadership devolved into toxicity when he refused to trust God, instead depending on human support. Leaders need to constantly rely on God, acknowledge His paramount role, and heed advice from subordinates for continuous growth and strong leadership.
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"The Toxic Boss Survival Guide" provides strategies for dealing with a malicious employer. The book presents a simplified approach to handling a hostile work environment, especially when faced with an abusive boss, but cautioning that hunkering down is not a long-term solution.
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John 9 narrates the story of Jesus healing a man born blind on a Sabbath, challenging the rules of the Pharisees. The Pharisees' refuse to acknowledge their sin and Jesus makes clear their guilt remains as long as they think they see but don't.
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The book, "The Toxic Boss Survival Guide," by Chappelow, Ronayne, and Adams, offers strategies for dealing with harmful bosses. It distinguishes between merely "bad" bosses and genuinely "toxic" ones who intentionally cause excessive harm serving their own agenda. The impact of toxic bosses includes increased staff turnover, loss of productivity, and stifling of creativity.
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Abuse Trauma creates significant neurological disorder. The Church needs to be a place of safety and healing.
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Those who make themselves complicit with toxic leadership will often do so due to fear of loss of prominence or privilage. A great example is found in Esther's story.
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Mary's experiences with spiritual abuse in a mission organization and her marriage. In the mission, she faced sexual harassment and the mission's cover up. In her marriage, emotional and psychological abuse, which church elders blamed on her lack of submission to her husband.
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Imprecatory Praying: It is a hard topic for Christians to wrap their heads around. When I normally speak of "imprecatory praying" I give qualifications. But Nehemiah, in a display of raw emotion, simply asks the Lord to destroy this enemy of God's people.
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Read Mary's experiences with spiritual abuse in a mission organization and her marriage. In the mission, she faced sexual harassment and the mission's cover up. In her marriage, emotional and psychological abuse, which church elders blamed on her lack of submission to her husband.
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TAKE TWO: A blogger argues that the focus on bad pastors and their abusive leadership in the Christian community might have been overdone and could overshadow the more common existence of good pastors. I disagree. Churches and Christians are called to judge inside their ranks and expose pastoral abuse when it occurs. The Bible calls for greater accountability for church leaders and warns against tolerating abusive practices in leadership.
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This podcast explores the experiences of employees in Christian organizations working under toxic leadership, likening their situations to King David's pleas in Psalm 55. Despite the expectation of brotherhood and respect, they often face betrayal and manipulation.
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"The Toxic Boss Survival Guide" provides insights into dealing with toxic bosses. It highlights the importance of managing one's mental attitude, energy, and resilience against the negative pressures generated by toxic bosses. The guide encourages individuals not to let a toxic boss dominate their thoughts, stressing that strength comes from oneself and one's faith.
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My mother defended me always. She taught her children to defend the vulnerable all her days.
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We are all dependent. We long for respect and love and relationship. But leaders need to depend on God, not our subordinates.
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As we watch current events unfold we are seeing the results of narcissism in bold and deeply disturbing colors. The short-term positive gains by a toxic leader, I would suggest, can never overcome the long-term devastation caused by their focus on self and the devaluation of people and relationships.
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People were created to love God and their neighbor. They were created to care for and keep the world. To create flourishing. They were not created to sow power and reap abuse. Isaiah 5 challenges the toxic leadership of many Christian churches and organizations.
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The podcast deliberates on the topic of abusive leaders who learned harmful behaviors from childhood. While some might give such individuals a pass due to their upbringing, the emphasis is that everyone is accountable for their actions, irrespective of their background. Abusers hold responsibility for their actions and must seek repentance and transformation. Christian teachings underscore this principle of individual accountability, urging people to reject oppressive behaviors, even if learned from authority figures or role models.
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Will the "evil" God returns to my abuser be in this life (through trials and tribulations), the end of his life, or simply in the final judgment? He says, in faithfulness, he will "put an end to them."
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When Rachel Black was struggling to make sense of her abusive pastor, there was no Christianity Today Mars Hill podcasts and seemingly no books on how an employee in a church is to respond to such disregard. All she knew was the "hairs on her arms stood up" as she sought to understand her boss.
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She knew that God was calling her to be a missionary. His seeming commitment to Christ and a future as a missionary "touched" her and they were married. But he can no longer harm Lisa.
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Abuse. Devastates. People. Not just the abuse that involves hitting. But abuse of all forms - emotional and spiritual.
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Do you want to regain a relationship (reconciliation) with an abuser? Are you seeking to save your job or your marriage? This is a clarion call that the only way a relationship with an abuser will be saved is through his repentance. Hold the line!
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Ever wonder what it means to be "godly?" Just consider the "chief of sinners." Maybe humility has something to do with it?
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We may think when we are serving in a Christian ministry that there is a one-way road map when dealing with a self-serving and destructive ministry leader. However, there is more than one response to toxic bosses found in scripture.
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It was a very good two years working for a mission college. Now they grieve the loss of what they had in Africa.
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It is not unusual for those who have faced off with toxic leadership in the church to turn from the church. For those seeking a church of shalom, here are some hints.
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How do I know I am working under a toxic boss? Just as it is seen in domestic violence, abuse in the workplace sometimes is unrecognizable by those who are caught in the fray.
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There are a number of indicators of abusive leadership and it is important to be able to diagnose toxic leadership and root it out from your organization. Because it will kill your organization.
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One of the most hideous beliefs crushing abuse survivors within our Christian communities is that the ratting out of abusive leadership in the home or workplace is gossip or slander.
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“The exercise of authority is designed to serve the well-being of those under its care,” says Timothy Witmer. That seems basic to the Christian, and yet how many bosses view their leadership this way?
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Godly grief = Repentance..."worldly" grief not so much.
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The fear that many experience as they come face-to-face with an abusive leader can create different reactions. Psychologists often talk of “fight, flight, or freeze” reflexes. God has given us a built-in mechanism in our brain that helps us respond to dangerous situations – physical or emotional. An understanding of what is happening in the brain when faced with trauma is opening fascinating avenues of healing.
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We are “fearfully and wonderfully made” according to David. However, we live in a time of strange in-betweenness! Trauma creates broken brains.
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When Steven joined a large Christian parachurch organization he was excited to be in an influential position to spread God’s Word. He was warned that the organization was “dysfunctional” and it only took a short time for the dysfunction to catch up to him.
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Forgive and forget. Don't judge. Remember we are all sinners. There are actually times when grace means to pronounce judgment and bring accountability. This podcast looks at Psalm 37 and David's challenging words to help survivors remember God is on their side.
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We often focus on man's actions in determining whether genuine repentance has taken place. However, repentance is much more than this and our understanding of it will make a significant difference in how we look at those called to repentance after crushing others under their authority or power.
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I have often heard survivors of abusive leaders in the home and workplace confess their sins and in some way suggest the abuse they are living under is somehow a necessary result of their sin. Do not be distracted by the wiles of the abuser as he projects his sin upon his victim.
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I could tell in our discussion that Aaron was the dream employee. But, after two years of serving in the church, Aaron came home to his wife and shared with her, “I think Pastor Gene has a man-crush on me.”
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"I soon realised something was wrong in my marriage, but I couldn’t put my finger on it." How Lisa, a missionary, found freedom from an abusive husband.
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Susie's story is not uncommon. Her story is an example of a church work environment that is destructive and extraordinarily complex because highly authoritarian leadership is destructive and extraordinarily complex.
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Maybe we could begin to shift our focus by concentrating on the "responsibility" of shepherding people rather than having "authority" when considering the position of Pastor in the local church.
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Beginning in 1643, leaders from the Erastian, Presbyterian, and Independent churches in England and Scotland were called by Parliament to assemble a doctrinal statement for. the Christian church. In this monumental work of theology, the "divines" taught "divine leadership."
In a few sentences in their "larger catechism" they constructed a beautiful statement of God's call to leaders.
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We see our oppressors (as the Bible calls them) winning the battle. But that is only in the short-term. The LORD is my refuge.
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I hope these ideas are both biblical and helpful in challenging common misconceptions about our Christian leaders. Leaders are important . . . and so they need to get it right. When speaking with Jada, I was again confronted with the teaching in some churches that leaders are to be obeyed absolutely.
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Jada felt like a caged bird set free when she escaped her spiritually and sexually abusive pastor. There is much to learn about clergy sexual abuse from her story.
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Jada said she "felt like a prisoner set free" when she left her sexually and spiritually abusive pastor. We have much to learn about clergy sexual abuse from her story.
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One of the surest ways to kill an organization is to be driven by image. One of the surest ways to identify a toxic leader is to find one driven by image.
The Bible is repleat with examples and the modern business and Christian organization world is full of them. It is a huge temptation for any organization that feels more dependent on donor funds than God.
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Amber, a young adult, was committed to church. She loved the fellowship and teaching. Kayla attempted to warn Pastor Brandon that Kevin had a reputation as possibly an adulterer; she had heard that he had a sexual relationship with a woman, not his wife. The pastor brushed it off and said, “I know Kevin. Of course, he wouldn't do such a thing.”
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Is a church leader, by nature of the office he holds, the "Lord's anointed" as David calls King Saul in 2 Samuel 1:14?
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One of the hardest things for someone to hear when going through a particularly difficult trial is, "Consider it joy! It will make you stronger." Yes, the Bible tells me so. But it so often seems so callous for someone to remind me of it. There might even be a smile that goes with it that makes me angry. So, how do we counsel victims?
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Biblical repentance is difficult to understand. The word is used freely as though everyone gets it. But identifying the actual repentant heart is not so easy. Restitution is an important part of the Old Testament law. Just saying you are sorry doesn't cut it when it comes to repentance. If there is to be reconciliation, restitution is imperative.
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Bad leaders are held to account by the Lord and His people are called to hold them accountable for their failures where they have that ability.
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“Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him, bring me word, that I too may come and worship him.” [Herod the Great] Sounds great...but we know the truth.
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Having spent nearly a decade working for a mission college in Africa, I have a keen interest in African leadership. When I spoke with Praise (not his real name), he shared his own experience with leadership abuse in the African nation in which he grew up.
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Generally, positive stories about how the church responds to abuse are far and few between. But, Janice's is different.
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One particular result (and technique) of abuse is isolation. It is deeply hurtful. And it is almost always, in my experience, a result of or intentional tool in the abusive individual's kit.
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Those who are honored to hear an abuse victim's story need to hear Job's story. They need to hear his words . . . and they need to hear his friends' words.
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Emily joined the African mission work because it "sounded good. It was the way we should be helping." But all that glitters is not gold...
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Despite all he had gone through under a toxic leader, Kani preached the Gospel to me. The leader of the international organization for which he worked fired him after he confronted corrupt ministry practices.
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If you work for a Christian organization (or other) that is ruled by a toxic leader, be aware. It will spill out and over you.
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Pride and jealousy. It is extraordinary what these sins can do to a leader. Saul is a great example.
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The church has seemed to become more concerned about its own belly button than for its mission to God's world.
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It is not uncommon to hear people speak of the good that has come from a leader even though he or she is toxic. Let's not draw those lines.
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One of the great [supposed] mysteries of abusive relationships is why a victim continues to return to their abuser? What is it that drives a survivor of domestic violence back to the scene of the crime multiple times? We might be asking ourselves a similar question: Why do we do stay under abusive leadership in Christian organizations?
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These podcasts are the fruit of interviews with employees who sought diligently to respond to their foul bosses in biblical and thoughtful ways. This podcast describes their application of Matthew 18 - the confrontation of a sinning brother - to their unpleasant circumstances.
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Does Matthew 18 apply to the confrontation of an abusive boss? This episode investigates the passage in the context of confronting someone in higher authority.
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Abusers actually have a great deal of self-control. They know when to dismember and when to charm.
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Michael and Kate realized the abuse of power by bullying, control, using the scriptures to condemn, shunning, and slander had been going on for a long time.
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Part 2: It has been two years since the Williams left Peace Community Church. Blame-shifting and isolating, Kate's pastor has deeply hurt many in leadership.
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It has been two years since the Williams left Peace Community Church. They would have remained silent had the abusive leadership not proceeded to crush others the Williams love.
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This podcast is Part Three of a series telling the stories of two women who were sexually abused, one of their families, and the church leadership that misused their spiritual authority in response. This podcast includes topics such as sexual assault, domestic violence, physical violence, and spiritual abuse. I acknowledge that this content may be difficult. I also encourage you to care for your safety and well-being.
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Emily's church leadership not only turned a blind eye to her rapist, but told her she was shut out from the kingdom of heaven. Rather than be reminded of her "worth in Christ," she has been crushed by God's shepherds.
This podcast includes topics such as sexual assault, domestic violence, stalking, physical violence, and spiritual abuse. I acknowledge that this content may be difficult. I also encourage you to care for your safety and well-being.
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Mia's change in behavior at home and struggle with the church had its roots in her experience of sexual abuse. It was not too late for Mia, but the church and her parents were going to need to respond to her struggles in light of these horrible experiences as a child.
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When do you give up on a toxic leader? More often than not, leadership abuse survivors struggle with "Accountability Guilt."
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Humble leadership is the best. It doesn't matter if you follow Christ or are an atheist. Humble leadership works best. Learn from King Nebuchadnezzar.
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Proverbs 11:10 says, "When it goes well with the righteous, the city rejoices, and when the wicked perish there are shouts of gladness." So often those who have suffered under toxic leadership feel guilty when their mission leader dies and they are glad. However, it is no unbiblical to desire a toxic leader to be taken down.
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I have spoken with many victims of leadership abuse. It is common that they have also faced off with other leaders in the organization who supported the leader reported as toxic.
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Manyy Christians are suspicious of systems theory because they think in a “western individualistic” way. However, the Bible was written largely to a much less individualistic culture and speaks much holistically to both individual and group think.
Saul was just like the other kings. Israel had asked for one. And they got one. He was a rotten leader. Often we downplay his wicked leadership. Join Kelly Dehnert, Editor of Pearls and Swine Site while he talks about Saul's abusive tactics.
This episode is also available as a blog post: http://pearlsandswinesite.com/2021/06/21/enabling-abusers-saul-and-the-ziphites/
Timothy Keller's helpful little book, "Counterfeit Gods" has a chapter that speaks insightfully to the abuse of authority. This episode is also available as a blog post: http://pearlsandswinesite.com/2021/05/03/counterfeit-gods-the-power-and-the-glory/
My first degrees were in music performance. It was then I learned a valuable lesson about responding to abuse. This episode is also available as a blog post: http://pearlsandswinesite.com/2021/02/05/abuse-vindication-and-the-fear-of-man/
Indicative of the abuse of power in the home, church, organization, or workplace is entitlement. Scripture gives no leeway to those who think they are particularly important. This episode is also available as a blog post: http://pearlsandswinesite.com/2021/04/08/humility-humility-humility/
Often abusive leaders demand submission from their subjects. Rather, they ought to demand it of themselves. This episode is also available as a blog post: http://pearlsandswinesite.com/2021/03/29/headship-demand-it-of-yourself/
Wading into the depths of Psalms 44 and 46 can be both the healing balm and helpful aid to building boundaries that protect our integrity from those who war against a Biblical understanding of abuse.
This episode is also available as a blog post: http://pearlsandswinesite.com/2021/03/12/though-he-rage-god-is-our-refuge/