Out of Oz: Recent Episodes
BLDG 28 Church
From BLDG 28 Church, Out of Oz is a podcast about the intersection of Christianity and culture. Hosts Peter Tragos and Aaron Currin are joined weekly by a rotating panel of guests to examine the fantasies and fallacies of modern Christianity with courage, conviction, and compassion. New episodes drop every Monday.
In the 19th century, women began working outside their homes in large numbers after centuries of being the primary home caregiver. Fast forward to today, women may receive smug looks from others if they confess they stay at home to home school or care for children, burdened by concerns like, “Don’t you want more for yourself?” and “What about your career?” Within the church, the roles may be reversed. People may question why a mother would prefer to chase a dream or work in her desired field. Which side is legit? Which is Biblical? This week, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers, Dani Van Nortwick, and Melissa Hale discuss:
[02:57] - How would you define “occupational” vs “stay at home” mom?
[03:50] - Why are we asking this question? Why is this an issue?
[07:14] - Biblically, what should the priority of a mother be?
[12:29] - Is it biblical for the wife to be the breadwinner? What if the husband has the desire to stay home?
[24:54] - At what point should a mom consider coming home from her job to take care of the home and children? How do you know when it’s time?
[32:34] - Is it unbiblical to put your kids in daycare when the wife or husband has the ability and flexibility to stay home?
[38:06] - Is it biblical to expect women to have children right after marriage? Is it selfish to wait?
[40:44] - What if a Christian couple doesn’t want to have children? Or cannot?
[47:26] - What advice would you give to a couple looking to bring the wife home from the workforce? Or go back out into the workforce?
[51:45] - What encouragement can you give to working moms? What encouragement can you give to stay-at-home moms?
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Dani Van Nortwick
Melissa Hale
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SonRise Community Church
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The subject of aliens has lingered in the minds of Americans for many years. The fervor around unexplainable happenings has been reignited at different times due to “new findings” or leaked footage of UFOs. History.com has an interactive map where you can explore possible UFO sightings. And, at one point, the US Government launched a systematic study, Project Blue Book, where they spent time and resources researching the very question at hand today. As Christians, we may grapple with this question differently due to the nature of salvation and our belief that our God created all things. So today we ask the question, do you believe in aliens?
This week, Aaron, and guest-hosts Nate Currin, Adam Powers, and Dani Van Nortwick discuss:
[02:34] - Why are we having this conversation?
[04:31] - How would you define what aliens are? Any intelligent life outside of Earth?
[06:50] - What proof is there that aliens exist or don’t exist?
[11:28] - Why aren’t aliens mentioned in the Bible?
[15:12] - Is the spiritual realm an example of alien life?
[32:21] - How would it impact our faith if there was intelligent life somewhere besides Earth? How should Christians respond to claims of alien life?
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Dani Van Nortwick
Nathan Currin
Links
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SonRise Community Church
History.com
Project Blue Book
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It is evident in Scripture that certain activities are dishonorable and off-limits, including adultery, abuse, and murder. Yet, throughout the Bible we see God’s people having multiple wives, and instances of abuse and slavery. This causes skeptics and Christians alike to wonder how God could call something sin, yet still seem to permit it or even engage in it or ordain it himself. Does this show a contradiction or inconsistency? Are polygamy and slavery allowed in the Bible? This week, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers and Dani Van Nortwick discuss:
[03:28] - What is polygamy?
[17:17] - Is polygamy adultery?
[18:21] - How was David “a man after God’s own heart” while living in the continual sin of polygamy?
[22:35] - What is slavery? Is there a difference between slavery in the Bible and modern slavery in the West?
[33:16] - How can some of our greatest theologians (George Whitfield, Jonathan Edwards, etc.) have owned slaves? How do we reconcile this?
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Dani Van Nortwick
Links
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SonRise Community Church
Out of Oz 0216: Is Divorce and Remarriage Biblically Permitted?
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“Am I really a Christian?” is a thought that can rattle the mind, body, and soul. There are circumstances and sins we engage in which may elicit our soul to ask this question of ourselves or others in our lives who may impose this belief upon us. Having faith is a matter of eternal life or infinite damnation, so we truly must ask ourselves, how can I know for sure I am a Christian? This week, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers and Dani Van Nortwick discuss:
[02:01] - Why are we asking this question?
[07:19] - What does it even mean to be saved? And what does it mean to have assurance?
[10:45] - What are we saved from?
[28:58] - How do we “grow closer” to Christ?
[34:41] - Closing thoughts
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Dani Van Nortwick
Links
Watch Out of Oz on YouTube
SonRise Community Church
The Skeptical Saint
Saved from What? By R. C. Sproul
Martin Luther
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If you were to take a poll of the reasons why unbelievers struggle to grasp the idea of God or a doctrine professing Christians grapple with, one that drives to the forefront would likely be the origin of transgression. Where did sin originate? If God created all things, how can something exist that He didn't construct? God is infinite in wisdom and He did not intend for us to understand all things, but with the capabilities we do have, albeit limited, we can seek to study and uncover the question, is God the author of sin? This week, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers and Dani Van Nortwick discuss:
[02:49] - Why are we having this conversation?
[07:23] - Did God allow sin? And if He allowed it, does that make him evil?
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Dani Van Nortwick
Links
Watch Out of Oz on YouTube
SonRise Community Church
Westminster Confession of Faith
R. C. Sproul
Out of Oz 0301: Is Double Predestination Biblical?
Putting Amazing Back into Grace: Embracing the Heart of the Gospel by Michael Horton
Herman Bavinck
Providence by John Piper
Spectacular Sins by John Piper
Charles Spurgeon
Jonathan Edwards
A.W. Tozer Knowledge of the Holy
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When you see someone commit sin or hear confession of sin, the degree of said sin can either raise eyebrows or roll eyes. If you hear someone is struggling with gossip, the odds are, you’re not shocked. But if your friend went on an all-night rager and got wasted, the odds are you pass judgment and have a check in your conscience. There are certain sins that are embedded, engrained, and normalized in American culture as we know it: gluttony, pride, and greed. What’s the difference between our varying levels of sin? Why does the church so easily accept certain sins? This week, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers and Dani Van Nortwick discuss:
[03:00] - How do we define sin?
[12:35] - What are some examples of sins that are more easily accepted by the church?
[24:34] - There are different consequences to certain sins in society and the church, so shouldn’t there then be different levels of judgment?
[32:43] - How can we create a culture in our churches that isn’t so accepting of certain sins?
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Dani Van Nortwick
Links
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SonRise Community Church
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Manifestation is the idea of bringing something you want into existence through aspirational thought practices. This mind ritual is touted by people like Oprah, prominent wellness publications, and social media influencers. For Christians and non-Christians alike, this idea seems delightful. Who wouldn’t want to gain the desires of their heart by exercising a pattern of thought? But what spiritual implications does this have, if any? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers, Dani Van Nortwick discuss:
[02:07] - How do we define manifestation?
[08:31] - Is “Christian manifestation” a new idea?
[13:30] - What does the Bible say about speaking things into existence? What does the Bible say about our thought life?
[25:24] - What about Mark 11:23-24 and other passages (Luke 11:9, James 5:16) that seem to imply that manifestation is biblical?
[36:05] - What should Christians do instead of manifestation?
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Dani Van Nortwick
Links
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SonRise Community Church
The Inklings
Bethel
The Most Misused Verses in the Bible: Surprising Ways God's Word Is Misunderstood by Eric J. Bargerhuff
C. S. Lewis
The Chronicles of Narnia
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There are countless things Christians do that they are wasting their time on. Mark 12:30-31 lays out clearly the priorities of the Christian life from the mouth of Jesus—that Christians are to love God and love their neighbor. As Christians, we know what we are supposed to do but we waste our time doing other things. So what should Christians stop doing? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers, Dani Van Nortwick discuss:
[03:59] - What’s the difference between universal and personal conviction?
[07:03] - What do you think is more important to God — that we exercise our Christian liberties, or that we pursue holiness and purity?
[14:59] - How do you handle a situation where someone points out something in your life that they believe is a sin, but you do not believe is a sin?
[19:12] - How do you talk to someone that you feel has taken a Christian liberty too far? Should you talk to them at all?
[29:31] - What does consumerism look like in the church?
[34:16] - Why are Christians so quick to be hyper-critical of leaders in ministry and tear them down?
[41:14] - What is the proper way to respond when a leader has done something wrong?
[52:38] - How do you guard against being hyper-critical, but still hold leaders accountable?
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Dani Van Nortwick
Links
Watch Out of Oz on YouTube
SonRise Community Church
Out of Oz 0309: Why Do So Many People Hate Christians?
Matt Chandler
Ravi Zacharias
Mark Driscoll
Out of Oz 0313: Is Steven Furtick Going to Hell?
SBC
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There are abundant ideas about God in mainstream Christian thought and life—some wildly unbiblical, while others remain anchored to Scripture. Preachers teach Sunday after Sunday and serve as a mouthpiece to explain the Bible to hundreds, if not thousands, of people. Take Steven Furtick for example. Elevation Church, where he teaches, has a weekly attendance of 27,408 people as recorded in 2021. Elevation also has 23 locations. If a pastor fails to explain what the Bible teaches, it can lead a church and its people astray. Is this a problem? The bigger question might be, with teaching false doctrine in mind, is Steven Furtick going to hell? This week, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers, Dani Van Nortwick and Adam Clark discuss:
[02:28] - Why focus on Steven Furtick?
[11:54] - What do we mean when we say “soft gospel”?
[26:09] - How do we know when a church has bought into a soft gospel?
[34::49] - Why does the current generation seem so drawn to celebrity pastors and mega-churches?
[36:06] - How should we respond to friends and family who are caught up the prosperity gospel?
[40:50] - How do we guard against falling into the extremes on either side?\
[46:04] - So, is Steven Furtick going to Hell?
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Dani Van Nortwick
Adam Clark
Links
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SonRise Community Church
Steven Furtick
Joel Osteen
Joyce Meyer
T. D. Jakes
Carl Lentz
Brian Houston
Tim Keller
John Piper
Willow Creek
Mark Driscoll
Tony Robbins
C. S. Lewis
Charles Spurgeon
Harry Potter
Bethel
John MacArthur
Paul Washer
The Ragamuffin Gospel by Brennan Manning
Doug Wilson
Augustine
Charles Finney
Martin Luther
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A bowl of ice cream or cracking open a cold one at the end of an arduous day sounds like a breath of fresh air to some. To others, it seems to be an irreligious crutch. As Christians, we know that Jesus is the lover of our souls and He satisfies us. But how much does Jesus truly fulfill our earthly bodies? How are we to enjoy the good gifts God has given us? The phrase “coping mechanism” can elicit different responses and reactions. Today we peel back the layers of this question - are Christians allowed a coping mechanism? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers and Maggie Seibert discuss:
[02:23] - What would you define as a coping mechanism?
[06:36] - When would a coping mechanism become a problem for a Christian?
[09:11] - Does having a coping mechanism mean that you think “Jesus is not enough?”
[12::02] - What about alcohol? Are there any coping mechanisms that are inherently sinful?
[32:06] - Does the antinomian or legalist point of view play into this conversation at all?
[35:10] - Does the Bible support having a coping mechanism?
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Maggie Seibert
Links
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SonRise Community Church
Out of Oz 0202: Will Catholics be in Heaven?
C.S. Lewis
The Screwtape Letters
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Some of the most substantial and hot-button issues currently raging in our culture are the overturning of Roe V. Wade in June of 2022, the matter of women’s health, and the right to have an abortion. As Christians, we recognize God values life and justice—which begs the question, can a Christian be pro-choice? This week, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers, Dani Van Nortwick and Adam Clark discuss:
[02:58] - What does pro-choice actually mean? Can a Christian be pro-choice but not pro-abortion?
[12:00] - How big of a problem is abortion today?
[26:47] - How should Christians respond to the claim that abortion is the only option in some situations?
[29:09] - Can a Christian be pro-life and still vote for pro-choice politicians/leaders?
[33:12] - How should pro-life Christians interact with and respond to pro-choice Christians?
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Dani Van Nortwick
Adam Clark
Links
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SonRise Community Church
R.C. Sproul
Abortion: A Rational Look at an Emotional Issue ~ R.C. Sproul
The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self ~ Carl Trueman
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"I'm a man, trapped in a woman's body" has, in the past decade, become a statement of not only individual preference but of widespread scientific (in some circles) and social acceptance, the denial of which is now labeled by many as bigoted "hate speech." The transgender movement is dominating many spheres from politics, to women's sports, to family dynamics, and beyond. With this issue rapidly building, the question we are faced with is: what does the Bible actually say about gender? This week, Dashawn, Aaron, and guest-host Adam Powers discuss:
[03:21] - What are some terms to define and understand in order to discuss this topic?
[06:17] - Why is this such an important conversation for Christians to be prepared for?
[17:42] - How is "love" not the answer, but also in many ways THE answer when approaching this issue?
[27:03] - What does the Bible actually have to say about gender?
[38:58] - How should Christians address a friend, child, or fellow Christian who claims to be trangendered?
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Dashawn Cousins
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SonRise Community Church
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Across the centuries the popularity of Christianity has fluctuated, but it is only in modern times that the reputation of Christianity has so widely fallen under censure and hate. With the kingdom of God rolling forward on the proclamation of the Gospel, yet with the Gospel message increasingly becoming white noise, the critical question before us stands: why do so many people hate Christians? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-host Adam Powers discuss:
[02:29] - What is the definition of “hate” that we are using?
[07:42] - What are some legitimate and illegitimate reasons for people hating Christ-followers?
[19:39] - The hypocrisy issue.
[23:20] - Should Christians push their beliefs on other people?
[31:17] - Are Christians narrow-minded?
[33:36] - What should Christians not do in striving to address this problem?
[38:39] - What should Christians do in response to this issue?
Guest Hosts Adam Powers
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SonRise Community Church
Doug Wilson
Tertullian
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For centuries the Bible has come under almost constant assault. Scripture has been called antiquated, outdated, contradictory, irrelevant, harmful, and the accusations roll ever onward. Even within the realm of Christianity the infallibility and the authority of the Bible has been questioned or ridiculed. And all of this leads us to the ever-pressing and critically important question: can we really trust the Bible? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-host Adam Powers discuss:
[05:06] - What is most important about the veracity of the Bible and how is it proven?
[15:21] - What are some external evidences and support for the veracity of the Bible?
[37:07] - The Bible is a book of prophecy.
[40:52] - What makes the Bible different from a lot of other religious books?
Guest Hosts Adam Powers
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SonRise Community Church
Joe Rogan - Jordan Peterson
Bertrand Russell
C.S. Lewis
Homer
Dale Earnhardt
Didache
Letters of Clement
Martin Luther
Muhammad
Joseph Smith
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Franklin D. Roosevelt famously stated: "War is young men dying and old men talking." But today, with the meteoric rise of social media it seems that people are constantly talking about war, specifically the war that is currently raging in Ukraine. All of this drives us to a very pressing question: how should Christians think about, react to, and talk about war? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-host Adam Powers discuss:
[01:52] - What is the historic position of Christianity concerning war?
[05:10] - What is a Christian alternative to pacifism?
[08:45] - What does the Bible have to say about war?
[13:21] - Specifically, how should we respond to the war in Ukraine?
[18:08] - How are the wars in the Bible different than our wars?
[24:25] - Would it be wrong for America to intervene in Ukraine?
[28:06] - Is either position (regarding Ukraine) anti-biblical?
Guest Hosts Adam Powers
Links
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SonRise Community Church
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Augustine
Thomas Aquinas
Christopher Hitchens
Doug Wilson
Bertrand Russell
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For many Christians, particularly in the southern United States, the death penalty for certain truly heinous criminal acts is a no-brainer; the thought being “what reasonable person wouldn't support the sanction of erasing murderers, rapists, child molesters, etc.”? But against this position there is a torrent of objections declaring that true Christians love forgiveness and should seek to restore. While the tumult rages on, the question remains: should Christians support or oppose capital punishment? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers and Dashawn Cousins discuss:
[03:29] - Where do you stand on the death penalty?
[09:14] - Does your view on God’s sovereignty affect your view of the death penalty?
[16:31] - Does the method of execution matter?
[24:48] - Should the death penalty only be used in response to the taking of a life?
[31:40] - Is the death penalty really a biblical issue?
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Dashawn Cousins
Links
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SonRise Community Church
John Piper
Martyn Lloyd-Jones
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For close to two centuries, altar calls have been a mainstay across many branches of Christianity. Many people can trace the origins of their faith back to a moment when they heard the call to come forward and pray the sinner’s prayer. But are alter calls a good thing? Are there reasons we should use them or refrain from them? This week, Dashawn, Aaron, and guest-host Adam Powers discuss:
[03:57] - What is the history of "the Altar Call in the Christian Church?"
[16:24] - Does the fact that people legitimately came to faith during an altar call legitimize it?
[18:38] - What do people need to know to be saved?
[20:17] - Can altar calls have a redeeming value?
[27:37] - How can someone know if their faith is legitimate?
[36:18] - What is some advice for someone with this background or experience?
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Dashawn Cousins
Links
Watch Out of Oz on YouTube
SonRise Community Church
Charles Finney
Jonathan Edwards
Billy Graham
B. B. Warfield
Francis Chan
John Bunyan
Charles Spurgeon
John Calvin
D. L. Moody
Martyn Lloyd-Jones
Out of Oz 0303: Should a Christian Speak in Tongues?
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Throughout the confusion and chaos of much modern Christianity, the dreaded "h" word (heretic) is tossed about with reckless derision toward anyone opposing certain stated "truths." Seemingly, more than ever, the divisions between Christ-followers are widening, and believers are choosing many hills or, by contrast, almost zero hills to "die on." As we survey the Christian landscape, taking in the division while submitting to the truth, the question that stares each of us in the face is: what is absolutely foundational to true Christianity? Or stated otherwise: what hills should Christians be willing to die defending?
This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Dashawn Cousins and Adam Powers discuss:
[05:13] - Why is a discussion on this subject so important?
[21:49] - Christian liberties
[22:58] - Abortion
[25:38] - Substitutionary atonement
[27:03] - The infallibility of Mary and her ability to intercede between us and Jesus
[27:23] - The virginity of Mary
[32:25] - The Trinity
[36:18] - The infallibility of the Bible
[39:12] - Calvinism vs Arminianism
[42:52] - Dashawn’s hill to die on
[44:31] - Adam’s hill to die on
[46:31] - Aaron’s hill to die on
Guest Hosts
Dashawn Cousins
Adam Powers
Links
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SonRise Community Church
Finding the Right Hills to Die On by Gavin Ortlund
Out of Oz 0202: Will Catholics be in Heaven?
Out of Oz 0213: Biblically, Can Ladies Be Pastors?
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It is undeniable that in the early Christian church that the gift of tongues was operational and effectual. But since the first century, evidence surrounding the use of tongues is scant, and particularly in recent centuries, there has been a lot of confusion surrounding the use, necessary presence, or continuation of speaking in tongues. So today Christians are left with the extremely pressing and somewhat unsettling question: Should I as a Christian be speaking in tongues? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-host Adam Powers discuss:
[03:21] - What is speaking in tongues?
[07:05] - Were there different forms of tongues in the New Testament?
[14:06] - Does there have to be a purpose to speaking in tongues?
[16:26] - Do you believe this gift is still operational today?
[30:52] - What’s the difference between miracles and speaking in tongues?
[34:45] - What about people saying “God told me…”?
[45:41] - How would you counsel a Christian friend concerning the use of tongues?
Guest Hosts Adam Powers
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SonRise Community Church
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An often controversial and almost always unsettling topic is this Biblical concept of hell. Throughout the centuries of Christendom, the doctrine of hell has been maligned, ridiculed, utilized to accomplish fear-driven evangelism, misunderstood, and even denied. But as believers who take seriously the Scriptures, the sincere question that we must answer is: "What is hell?" This week, Dashawn, Aaron, and guest-host Adam Powers discuss:
[07:30] - Why is there so much consternation and division around this specific doctrine?
[13:02] - Are all the horrors related to hell as described in Scripture literal or allegorical?
[16:24] - How do the Scriptures describe hell?
[22:59] - Is hell justifiable?
[28:06] - Why is hell eternal?
[31:08] - Does God send people to hell, or do they choose to go there?
[40:55] - Is there danger in saying you believe in hell, but don’t like it?
[47:14] - How can we, as Bible proclaiming Christians, misuse the doctrine of hell?
[53:35] - What is the comfort, if any, in this doctrine?
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Dashawn Cousins
Links
Watch Out of Oz on YouTube
SonRise Community Church
Dante’s Inferno
Rob Bell
C.S. Lewis
The Problem of Pain
R.C. Sproul
N.T. Wright
Surprised by Hope
The Great Divorce
Francis Chan
Out of Oz 0301: Is Double Predestination Biblical?
Tim Keller
Christopher Hitchens
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While Scripture is abundantly clear—though there remain humanistic and traditional naysayers—that unconditional election is true, uncertainty still swirls for many around the matter of “double predestination”. Does God actively ordain unrepentant sinners for damnation, or is he more indirect with reprobation? To state it more plainly, does the Lord predestine sinners for damnation in the same way that he predestines Christians for salvation? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-host Adam Powers discuss:
[03:14] - Why does this topic matter?
[07:29] - What does it mean to say that God “wills” something to occur?
[12:02] - What is double predestination?
[19:02] - Does God actively damn sinners to destruction?
[26:08] - Does God actively ordain sin to occur?
[30:00] - Does God actively place the sin nature in humanity, or is it the consequence of the fall?
[44:57] - What is the comfort, if any, in this doctrine?
Guest Hosts Adam Powers
Links
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SonRise Community Church
Out of Oz 0205: Can Christians Smoke Weed?
Out of Oz 0219: Is Predestination Really Biblical?
Jonathan Edwards
R.C. Sproul
French Confession of Faith
Belgic Confession
Westminster Confession
London Baptist Confession
Charles Spurgeon
The Letter to the Romans (New International Commentary on the New Testament
Tim Killer
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Welcome to season 03 of Out of Oz. The goal of this podcast has always been to peel back the layers of society and examine the world around us with the same themes we saw in The Wizard of Oz — courage, conviction, and compassion. Each week, hosts Peter Tragos and Aaron Currin (along with a rotating panel of guests and co-hosts) will discuss issues we face in our everyday lives, and examine how we should deal with them, how we should think about them, and how we should live in light of them. We have a lot of great topics lined up for season 03. Subscribe now wherever you listen to podcasts. Guest Hosts Adam Powers
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SonRise Community Church
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This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-host Adam Powers answer listener questions from Out of Oz Season 02. If you have a question you’d like us to answer, send an email to info@bldg28.com. Check out the full list of questions from this Q&A on our website: http://outofozpodcast.com.
Guest Hosts Adam Powers
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SonRise Community Church
Out of Oz 0220: How Should Christians React to Vaccine Mandates?
The Faith of Christopher Hitchens by Larry Alex Taunton
Out of Oz 0212: Are We in the End Times?
Out of Oz 0214: Am I Ruining My Kids?
Out of Oz 0206: Infant Baptism or Believer’s Baptism: Which Is Biblical?
Out of Oz 0219: Is Predestination Really Biblical?
Putting Amazing Back into Grace by Michael Horton
Easy Chairs, Hard Words by Douglas Wilson
The Potter’s Freedom by James White
Chosen by God by R. C. Sproul
Kevin DeYoung
Robert Godfrey
Out of Oz 0202: Will Catholics be in Heaven?
Out of Oz 0201: Should Christians Sing the Songs of Hillsong, Bethel, or Elevation?
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On the rise across much of the Christian landscape is the tool, personality typing system, or some would even say “worldview” known as the Enneagram. But the roots of the Enneagram are sketchy; its design is connected to the New Age movement, and the gospel-denying progressive church has adopted it as a mode of salvation. Therefore, the very legitimate question is posited before us: should Christians use the Enneagram? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-host Mike Trill discuss:
[4:19] - Does the origin of the Enneagram and its potentially demonic roots disqualify it from biblical use and church use?
[13:11] - What other tools would you compare to the Enneagram?
[18:27] - Does the Enneagram fall into the category or Christian liberty?
[23:58] - Does the origin of the Enneagram make it different from other personality systems?
[27:08] - Does the Enneagram focus too much on self?
[34:03] - Where is the Enneagram at odds with or confirmed by Scripture?
[36:29] - Is the Enneagram redeemable, and why?
[42:05] - Is psychology or psychiatry a tool/aid Christians should use?
[46:08] - Does the Enneagram mix false religious views with Christianity, which can confuse Christians who study it?
[49:04] - Why should Christians use the Enneagram, and how can it be helpful in our spiritual walk?
“All truth is God’s truth.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts Mike Trill
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George Gurdjieff
Numerology
Enneagram
Astrology
Myers-Briggs
Critical Theory
Out of Oz 0210: Should Christians Embrace or Reject Critical Race Theory?
Richard Rohr
Jordan Peterson
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Tragically, suicide has been on the rise for decades. Fallen souls in a broken world, coupled at times with mental illness, delivers to many a devastating hopelessness and a desire for escape. And the world of isolation created by the pandemic has only accelerated this problem. With self-harm and suicidal thoughts in abundance both around the church and inside the church, the question that must be carefully, biblically answered is this: can a true follower of Jesus commit suicide? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers and Maggie Seibert discuss:
[04:15] - Historically, what has been the church’s position on this question?
[08:29] - Why is suicide such a big issue today?
[12:15] - What does the Bible say about suicide? Is it a sin? And can you still go to Heaven after committing that sin?
[13:45] - Does the sin of suicide show a lack of faith in Christ?
[17:58] - What about committing suicide in order to get to Heaven more quickly?
[21:01] - How should the church help those who are struggling with depression or mental illness leading to suicidal thoughts?
[34:03] - What hope do we give to someone who has a friend or family member who has committed suicide?
“Dawn will come one day, and everything that is sad will be made untrue. That doesn’t dismiss that it is really dark right now, and that in this world we will have trouble. But Christ has overcome the world. And if we look to him, he promises that, in him, we can have peace, even though we have trouble in the world. And there is great hope in that.” ~ Adam Powers
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Maggie Seibert
Links
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SonRise Community Church
Second Vatican Council
City of God - Augustine
John Mark Comer
C.S. Lewis
The Lord of the Rings
Harry Potter
Martin Luther
Luther
Robin Williams
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“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” ~ Thomas Jefferson, The Declaration of Independence These seemingly immortal words are clung to and embraced by most Americans and most Christians in America. Yet, what is life? Are we truly a free people? And is someone mandating an “untested” vaccine upon us or someone refusing to take a “safe” vaccine a Biblical issue? With the United States government essentially mandating a vaccine for federal employees and private businesses with more than 100 employees, how should Christians respond? These questions are stoking the fires of division within our culture and our churches. This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-host Adam Powers discuss:
[04:12] - Is this a Biblical issue?
[06:41] - What about religious exemptions?
[11:02] - Is “conscience” a valid religious exemption?
[13:50] - Should Christians submit to the government?
[22:54] - How can Christians discern which things are worth fighting for (and which ones aren’t)?
[33:06] - What comfort is there for Christians struggling with these tough decisions?
[38:59] - How should Christians respond to disagreement over this issue?
“As Christians, we’re are losing our voices because we’re trying to equate personal opinion and preference with Biblical mandate. And the world needs to see a clear distinction between them.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts Adam Powers
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SonRise Community Church
Out of Oz 0208: Should Christians Own Guns?
Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson
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One of the most-asked questions we get is about predestination. We believe that predestination is an undeniable Biblical doctrine. But we live in a culture that is constantly redefining words and issues, and this tendency has not escaped the church. This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-host Adam Powers discuss what predestination is (and isn’t), why it’s biblical, and why it matters in the first place. “Theology matters. This is not just an ivory-tower debate. This matters. It shapes our worship. It shapes our behavior. It shapes how we view God. It shapes everything about us. What comes to mind when we think about God is the most important thing about us.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts Adam Powers
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SonRise Community Church
Calvinism
Arminianism
John Wesley
The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination by Loraine Boettner
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Over the past century, the concept of dating has so saturated our culture that a refusal to date earns a fella or lady adjectives such as outdated, legalistic, hair-brained, or even cultish. But with so many believers entering marriage with regret, shame, and baggage, and with so many marriages seemingly set up to fail through cultural dating norms, the legit question must be asked and answered - should Christians stop with this dating game? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Maggie Seibert and Davontae Harrington talk about the history of dating, how and if Christian young people should date, and how to think about these topics in light of Scripture. “If you’re not heading toward marriage, if you’re nowhere close to being ready for marriage, the idea of dating is a mistake, and it’s indefensible for a 15, 16, or 17-year-old.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Maggie Seibert
Davontae Harrington
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Relevant
I Kissed Dating Goodbye
Tim Keller
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There are multiple reasons why parents would desire to keep their children with them during church services. But is this what is best for the church and the children? And most importantly, is this family-integrated worship biblical? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers, Tabi Griffith, and Renee Young discuss whether or not children should be in the worship gathering, what is biblical, and why it matters in the first place. “There needs to be serious consideration by parents and churches about when do we want to start integrating our children into the life of the church, so they don’t feel separated from that.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Tabi Griffith
Renee Young
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SonRise Community Church
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We live in a culture that does not value commitment, and is quick to justify almost any action with nothing more than the grounds of personal happiness. We know the Bible states that God hates divorce. But there is ambiguity in the passages that describe under what conditions a divorce is permissible. Is it permitted at all? Is remarriage permitted? What about divorce in the case of ministry leaders? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers and Lisa Preston discuss these questions, the various interpretations of Scripture, and how one would counsel a couple going through it. “The whole point of Matthew 18 is restoration, not retribution. So often in our culture, it’s easy to be vindictive instead of trying to restore.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Lisa Preston
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Sonrise Community Church
Watermark Community Church
John Piper
This Momentary Message by John Piper
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The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill is a podcast published by Christianity Today. While the stated goal of the show is to “explore the inside story of this church, its charismatic leader, and the conflicts and troubles that brought about its end”, the show’s execution has raised a lot of questions — namely, is it a genuine attempt to better the church and glorify God, or is it using the collapse of Mars Hill as a vehicle for delivering a very specific progressive agenda? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Keith Neubert and Adam Clark discuss the podcast, its legitimacy, how Christians should respond to it, and (in general) how to think critically about the information we consume. “1 Tim 5 is critically important when we talk about this, both publicly, or within your own church. There are so many accusations today, and people do not heed Scripture. There’s a process for this that’s laid out by Paul in Scripture — we don’t have to speculate.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Keith Neubert
Adam Clark
Links
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Mark Driscoll
Mars Hill
Acts29
Trinity Church
Christianity Today
The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill
The Royse Report
James MacDonald
Harvest Bible Chapel
The Master’s University
John MacArthur
Grace Community Church
Podcast Royale
Ravi Zacharias
Tullian Tchividjian
Andy Stanley
Matt Chandler
John Piper
Josh Harris
Humility by C.J. Mahaney
I Kissed Dating Goodbye
Paul Tripp
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The weight of parenting can be heavy. Whether they would admit it or not, most parents, at least at times, wonder if they are doing a good job. And in a culture where much is vying for the attention of parents and the affection of their children, how should godly parents engage, disciple, and train their kids? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Tim Miller and Dashawn Cousins discuss what the Bible has to say about parenting, what parents should be most concerned with, patterns and habits to avoid (and ones to implement), and how to deal with feelings of failure around parenting in general. “We’ve just bought the cultural norms. When it comes to dating, social media use, raising our kids - it’s like, well of course they have to do these things because that’s what the world tells us. We’ve become acclimated to it instead of asking the question why. ” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Dashawn Cousins
Tim Miller
Links
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Lakeview Church
Start With Why by Simon Sinek
12 Rules For Life by Jordan Peterson
John Piper
Matt Chandler
Shepherding a Child’s Heart by Tedd Tripp
Parenting: 14 Gospel Principles That Can Radically Change Your Family by Paul Tripp
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Across Christianity, there are few things more hotly contested and vehemently debated than the role of women in pastoral ministry. Yet amidst all the debate and struggle the question sincere Christians must strive to answer is this: what does the Bible have to say on this issue? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers and Maggie Seibert discuss the issue of authority in the church, the differences between egalitarianism and complementarianism, what Scripture has to say about these issues, and how we should deal with divisive topics. “There seems to be a lot of diversity even in reformed circles on how much we permit. But I pretty much go as far as you can go Biblically because I believe that’s where Scripture leads us in saying women should be empowered to do whatever they want to do, as long as it is within the framework of Scripture.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Maggie Seibert
Links
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Sonrise Community Church
Egalitarianism
Complementarianism
The Normative Principle
Kevin DeYoung
Men and Women in the Church by Kevin DeYoung
Rob Bell
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Over the centuries countless well-intentioned Christians have predicted the return of Jesus or prophesied of a rising “Man of Sin” with these themes reaching a feverish crescendo in recent years. So the questions arise: Do we know who the Anti-Christ is? Should we Look for a Rapture of the Church? Are we at the End of Time? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-host Ken Thompson discuss eschatology, the Anti-Christ, the rapture, what is future, what is past, and whether or not we are living in the “end times”. “I don’t think we should just check out on this discussion. Christians are repeatedly commanded to live in light of the end. Be studious. Study the Word. Be gracious to others, and be optimistic and hopeful.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts Ken Thompson
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Bay Cities Fellowship
Left Behind
Scofield
Darby
Preterism / Partial Preterism
Historic Premillennialism
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Despite warnings of addiction, depression, and increased anxiety from sociologists and psychologists, Christians, and Americans in general, continue to swarm to social media platforms. Is this a problem? And how should Christians utilize social media? This week, Aaron, and guest-hosts Maggie Seibert and Tim Miller discuss the unique dangers of social media for believers, as well as the ways it can be useful and helpful. “We become like what we like. We’re porous creators, we absorb a lot. And we become like the things we give ourselves to. So we’re either going to be brought down by idols, or growing in Christ and becoming more like Christ.” ~ Tim Miller
Guest Hosts
Maggie Seibert
Tim Miller
Links
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Lakeview Church
OOZ 0107 Should Christians Celebrate Alcohol?
The Wisdom Pyramid: Feeding Your Soul in a Post-Truth World by Brett McCracken
12 Ways Your Phone Is Changing You by Tony Reinke
Simon Sinek
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Critical Race Theory saturates our media and is pressed forward by most within formal educational circles. But Christians seem either uninformed or divided on how CRT should be handled. Therefore, the glaring question remains: should followers of Christ embrace parts or all of the theory or reject and denounce it completely? This week, Aaron, and guest-hosts Dashawn Cousins and Shane Scott discuss what CRT is, what it’s not, what critical thinking and Christian unity actually looks like, and what it means to love one another well in light of the gospel. “We need to think critically and celebrate what God has given us, love one another across boundaries, seek the unity that Jesus prays for in John 17, and direct people again and again to the Word of God, and pushing forward the truth.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Dashawn Cousins
Shane Scott
Links
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Man Up and Go
SBC
Legacy Church
Out of Oz 0105: Is Social Justice Biblical?
Richard Delgado
Critical Race Theory: An Introduction by Richard Delgado
Wheaton College
Fault Lines: The Social Justice Movement and Evangelicalism's Looming Catastrophe by Voddie T. Baucham
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As followers of Christ gather each weekend across the world, there are varied expressions and postures of worship. Some are stoically reserved while others are brazenly demonstrative. For the conscientious Christian, though, the question that must legitimately be answered is, how should I respond to the Lord in corporate worship? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Danie Taylor and Mike Trill discuss how Christians are called to respond to the Lord in corporate worship, how to prepare our hearts, what worship is, and whether or not churches in our day have lost the point of worship services in the first place. “Worship is not primarily about us—it’s about the Lord. But secondarily I’m here for my brothers and sisters who need that encouragement, who need that catechesis, who need to be instructed in the Word and the gospel.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Danie Taylor
Mike Trill
Links
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It Is Well - Kristene DiMarco
Psalm 130 - Shane & Shane
How Deep the Father’s Love For Us - Stuart Townend
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The decision lies before all Christians and is hotly contested across evangelicalism: should believers wield firearms to protect or refuse firearms to serve? And while Scripture does not address guns specifically, the Bible does have a lot to say about violence and peacemaking, and which we are called to as followers of Christ. This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Dashawn Cousins and Joshua Michael discuss the issue of guns and their place in the lives of believers.
Guest Hosts
Joshua Michael
Dashawn Cousins
Links
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Should Christians Be Encouraged to Arm Themselves? by John Piper
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While it’s true that every Christian parent must be convinced in their conscience before the Lord about what is right and true and good, God has given us scripture and biblical principles to guide us. With that in mind, what does the Bible, and the principles therein, say to us about how we should educate our children? Can public school be biblically justified? And more than that, can a case be made that public school is a better option for Christians than private or home school? This week, Aaron and guest-hosts Jason Haynor, Sara Haynor, and Danielle Felton discuss the public school debate, and whether or not it’s a good and wise option for Christian families. “It has always been known by the intellectual elites in society that whoever controls the educational system controls the culture. They shape the culture through the educational system.” ~ Aaron Currin “I don’t believe that any parent can sufficiently make up for the humanistic indoctrination that takes place in the public school system. Q Research reveals that the average Christian family spends less than 40 minutes discussing or reading the bible together every week. So we’re talking about 30 to 40 hours per week vs 40 minutes.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Jason Haynor
Sara Haynor
Danielle Felton
Links
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Out of Oz 023: Homeschool vs Public School: Which is Biblical?
David Alan Black
Archibald Alexander Hodge
Voddie Baucham
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Baptism has always stood as a sacred ordinance of the true church; but with very solid theologians on both sides of the debate, how are Christians to understand credobaptism vs paedobaptism? Is this an either/or issue, or a both/and issue? In other words, must Christians decide between one form of baptism or the other, or can they embrace both? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers and Rick Reumann discuss the differences between infant baptism and believer’s baptism, where these traditions come from, and they play out in our lives and theology. “The protestant church has minimized the importance of the sacraments since the reformation. In a reaction to what the catholic church had made efficacious for salvation, the protestant church has kind of thrown the baby out with the baptismal pool." ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Rick Reumann
Links
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John Calvin
Dispensationalism
John Piper
Kevin DeYoung
John Bunyan
Charles Spurgeon
R.C. Sproul
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Marijuana is natural and God-given, but the effects of weed can be mind-altering and purpose-crushing. All of this leaves us with the ever-increasing question: can Christians, in righteousness, choose to use weed? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Allan Pereira and Nate Currin discuss whether or not marijuana can be used by Christians in righteousness, if it’s different from other substances, and what Scripture teaches us about conscience and liberty. “When I look at ‘Don’t be drunk with wine’ (or stoned with weed) ‘but be filled with the Holy Spirit’, the contrast there is either our minds are under the operation and influence of the Spirit, or under the operation and influence of another substance.“ ~ Aaron Currin Guest Hosts Allan Pereira
Nate Currin
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John Piper
Out of Oz 007: Should Christians Celebrate Alcohol?
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With so many people suffering today from various degrees of anxiety, fear, or depression, the question of how Christians can cope or help others who struggle, is pressing. How big of an issue is anxiety in our culture and in our churches today? Is there something different about the world now that has led to an increase in these kinds of struggles? What are the root issues? And why are Christians, whose identity and hope is in Christ, not exempt from this struggle? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers and Maggie Seibert, discuss these questions and more. “We tend to do our Christian life as if God is generally disappointed with us. We live life as if we’re not sons and daughters of the king, but kind of employees who haven’t really done our job well and are under threat of being fired all the time. And yet we open the gospels and we see a friend in Jesus. And not just a friend, but a brother. And not just a friend and brother, but the king!” ~ Adam Powers Guest Hosts Adam Powers
Maggie Seibert
Links
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The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark Comer
Simon Sinek
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Each Christ-follower must unavoidably deal with negative, toxic individuals in their church, family, workplace, and even friend groups. So the question is not if I will encounter toxic people, but rather how I will handle these encounters when they come? Are some believers better gifted than others to handle negative individuals and toxic situations? Does there come a point when we as believers should detach ourselves from a toxic individual? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Tim Miller and Allan Pereira discuss how we as Christians should handle toxic individuals in our lives, boundaries and empathy, and what we can learn from Scripture and Jesus’ example. “There is something very valuable to be said about why is this person this way? Are they always this way? Do they just live this way? Do they like being sad? Do they like making other people miserable? Or are they going through something super heavy that Jesus is calling me to help them navigate and work through right now?” ~ Aaron Currin Guest Hosts Tim Miller
Allan Pereira
Links
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MedCircle YouTube Channel
Jordan Peterson
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Since the birth of Protestantism in the 16th century there has been a stark divide between the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant Church — but should this divide stand? Are Catholics essentially part of the same faith as protestants? And if not, why? What are the key differences between Catholics and Protestants? And where should believers draw the line in terms of fellowship and ministry? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Dashawn Cousins and Adam Powers discuss the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism, the history of how these traditions developed, and whether we are called to link arms or separate in our pursuit of the truth. “It doesn’t really matter what any of us believe about the subject, it matters what Scripture says, and whether or not we align with Scripture. When we define Christianity, and even Catholicism as it’s supposed to be understood, we allow Scripture to define that for us.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Dashawn Cousins
Links
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Martin Luther
Augustine
John Calvin
G.K. Chesterton
R.C. Sproul
Thomas Aquinas
Pope Benedict XVI
Pope Francis
Council of Trent
Second Vatican Council
The Apocrypha
Dante
Rob Bell
Francis Chan
The Chronicles of Narnia
John MacArthur
5 Minutes in Church History
Are We Together by R.C. Sproul
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Some of the most popular worship music in the world are the songs of Hillsong, Jesus Culture, Bethel and Elevation. But each of these movements promotes deeply flawed theology and false caricatures of Jesus, leading many Christians to ask the question: should we use or refuse these songs? Are Christians at liberty to sing theologically flawed lyrics? And, more specifically, can we sing songs that are theologically accurate, but written by artists who hold heretical beliefs? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Tim Miller and Virginia Dyer talk about these modern worship movements, how their theology impacts their music, and whether Christians can sing these songs in good conscience, or should steer clear altogether. “Either we have a Christian faith or we don’t. And if we do, there are boundaries that we don’t get to put in place. God has put these boundaries in place to define what Christianity is. And if we start singing songs that are outside of those boundaries, now we’re misrepresenting the faith to others, and more importantly, before the Lord. The Lord is not glorified through porous theology.” ~ Aaron Currin Guest Hosts Tim Miller
Virginia Dyer
Links
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John Piper
Hillsong
Jesus Culture
Bethel
Elevation
Horatio Spafford
Bill Johnson
Joel Osteen
Steven Furtick
Jonathan Edwards
The Elephant Room
Shane and Shane
Johnny Cash - Ain’t No Grave
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This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-host Adam Powers answer listener questions from Out of Oz Season 01. If you have a question you’d like us to answer, send an email to info@bldg28.com. Questions What is the overall purpose of the podcast?
How do you select guests for the podcast?
How should Christians judge fellow believers?
How do we recognize real demonic influence?
I have a friend who did not leave their church well. Do I have a responsibility as a sister in Christ to call out their foolishness/sin?
What percentage of drinking Christians do you think might be regularly violating their conscience because of the amount of alcohol they consume in one sitting or the frequency of the drinking, and yet they don’t exhibit drunkenness and may not actually be drunk at all?
How can Christians be careful to avoid abusing alcohol?
Why doesn't the church treat obesity as a bigger issue? Why does the southeast have a high obesity rate and at the same time have such a high church attendance rate?
Not a question but a statement: If you have to wrestle with the question of whether to support your friends or family when they find love, then something’s wrong with you, not them.
In the COVID 19 Vaccine episode it seems that most are promoting the vaccine to love people well, but aren’t wearing masks a way of loving people as well?
What's the importance of having to sign an actual paper to be a covenant member?
Why bother with Harry Potter if there's a ton of good Christian fantasy out there?
Would some of you guys on this panel have preferred Hilary Clinton? On a few exchanges, that's kind of how it appeared.
Is intimacy ever a reason to separate?
On the dating episode what age is appropriate for dating? Since short engagements are better, does that mean dating only when in a responsible place for marriage?
How would you counsel someone who has never been intimate before marriage and then is super freaked out by intimacy once inside marriage?
Homeschool vs Public School: Is one right and the other wrong?
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How far is too far? If you’re a parent or a young person, this is something you have undoubtedly thought about. It’s a very common question asked of pastors and youth pastors. And it’s good that we ask this question because our actions have consequences. As followers of Christ, our desire should be to honor him in everything we do —including sex and the physical aspects of a romantic relationship. We live in a world that is overly sexualized, and we are bombarded from every angle with the message that we should do whatever makes us happy. But in rightly rejecting this worldview, the church has often gone to the other extreme, demonizing sex and avoiding the topic altogether rather than deal with it. So, what are the boundaries of a healthy, God-glorifying relationship? How can we protect ourselves and our children? What do we do if we have already gone too far? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Davontae Harrington and Melissa Hale discuss these questions and help us think from a biblical standpoint about how we can honor God in our relationships. “God has hard-wired us to desire sex. He created us to desire intimacy and pursue pleasure. But all of those things find their ultimate fulfillment in the proper design that Christ has constructed for them.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Davontae Harrington
Melissa Hale
Links
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Paul David Tripp
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Today we’re talking about education. And specifically, how Christians should educate their children. Are Christian parents biblically mandated to chose one particular model of education over another? Or is it purely a matter of preference? What does the bible actually say about education? Should we expect our children to be missionaries to the culture around them? Or should we shelter them at all costs? Is there a middle ground? These are critical questions that no parent should take lightly. This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Carrie Brown and Ami Finley talk about the state of education in our day, what the bible actually says about how we should educate our children, how we should think about the options available to us, and how those decisions will impact our kids. “The divorce that I see in Christianity and the church today is that some parents almost assume that the educator of my child is going to only educate them on mathematics, science, language, arts, etc. When Luke 6 talks about the child becoming like the teacher, it is not primarily the formal educator — it’s the person the child respects most and is around the child the most. So if your child is being raised by CNN or the Discovery Channel or Nickelodeon, those are their educators, and your children are going to adopt those mindsets and worldview.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Carrie Brown
Ami Finley
Links
Watch Out of Oz on YouTube
Perspectives on Our Children’s Education: Going Public - Jen Wilkins
John Piper
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Why do Christian leaders fall? And are major public scandals more prevalent in our day, or is that merely a perception? It’s true that the rise of the internet and social media has created an entirely new level of intimacy and celebrity. But despite these realities, the root issues that lead many astray are not new. How should we respond to the public fall of a beloved leader or teacher? And what kinds of actions are disqualifying in the first place? How do we not lose heart when hypocrisy seems so commonplace? These are heavy questions. And regardless of the nature of the scandal, the impact on believers and unbelievers alike can be far-reaching and disastrous. This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Don Rice and Keith Neubert discuss these questions and how Christians are called to respond and live in light of them. “When you’re being applauded and loved and adored and you can do no wrong and people are constantly coming to you for advice — you become more than just an under-shepherd, you can become a god-like figure to people, and if you’re not careful, you can unwittingly start to believe their own press, and believe you are impervious and justify sinful behavior.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Don Rice
Keith Neubert
Links
Watch Out of Oz on YouTube
The Social Dilemma
Charles Spurgeon
Carl Lentz
Ravi Zacharias
James MacDonald
Mark Driscoll
Darrin Patrick
Tullian Tchividjian
Acts29
Sojourn Network
SBC
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“Church hopping” is an almost entirely modern phenomenon. Until very recently, most towns had one church. Maybe two, if it was a really big town. But with the advent of the automobile, and the growth of a transient and autonomous American Dream, people’s ideas of what the church is and what it’s for have changed. The church has become a consumer-oriented institution, feeding people’s desires for self-actualization and entertainment. But it’s not all bad news. Healthy, biblical, gospel-focused churches also continue to grow and multiply. So, the question arises, should Christians ever leave their church? And, if so, what are some legitimate and illegitimate reasons to do so? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers and Renee Young dig into these questions and talk about if and why a committed Christian should ever leave their church. “There’s probably going to come a time when you leave a church. Whether you move away, you get married, come from college, or you have to leave because of negative reasons. And Galatians 5 (the fruit of the Spirit) should rule our lives in these situations. That should be true of the leadership in a church, as well as members.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Renee Young
Links
Watch Out of Oz on YouTube
SonRise Community Church
C. S. Lewis
Matt Chandler
The Village Church
Tim Keller
Redeemer Church
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The discussion around homosexual marriage is nothing if not divisive in our day. And today we are tackling the topic of homosexual weddings — specifically, is it sinful for a Christian to attend a homosexual wedding? Is it an issue of sin or a matter of conscience? It is possible to attend a celebration of something many Christians believe to be sinful in a way that displays love and grace to people without condoning or encouraging sin? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers and Nate Currin talk about attending homosexual weddings, how Christians are called to engage with the LGBTQ+ community, and, as always, what the Bible has to say about these topics. “In our day, love has come to mean affirmation. And that’s not even a philosophical definition, let alone a biblical one. We can’t affirm any pattern of sin, even the ‘acceptable’ ones. And that’s an important distinction to make. We can truly love someone without affirming behavior that is anti-biblical.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Nate Currin
Links
Watch Out of Oz on YouTube
SonRise Community Church
The Deadly Se7en Sermon Series
Romans 1
Is God anti-gay? by Sam Allberry
Gay Girl, Good God: The Story of Who I Was, and Who God Has Always Been by Jackie Hill Perry
The Gospel Coalition
Rosaria Butterfield
The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self: Cultural Amnesia, Expressive Individualism, and the Road to Sexual Revolution by Carl Trueman
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Few people would deny that racism exists in the world today, even in the church. And in such cases, it should be rejected and repented of. But the issue of systematic racism gets a lot more complex. Does systematic racism exist? Is there a difference between racism, systematic racism, and cultural racism? And if these things do exist, how do we, as individuals, combat them? Our hope in this episode is to discuss these issues with grace and compassion, and more than anything else, show how Christians can converse around heavy topics in a godly way. This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Dashawn Cousins and Sara Haynor talk about the issue of systematic racism in the world and in the church, and how we can stand for truth with compassion, both individually and corporately as the body of Christ.
Guest Hosts
Dashawn Cousins
Sara Haynor
Links
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Should you be a member of a local church? It’s a hot-button topic depending on who you ask. It’s important to understand the difference between the universal church and the local church. Every true Christian is part of the universal church, but not necessarily part of a local church body — though we believe that every true Christian should be part of a local church. This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers and Dani Van talk about church membership, what it means, why it’s important, and why some people believe it’s possible to love Jesus, but not the church. “In the simplest terms, being part of a local church means being part of a family. Just like when I look at my family, and there are authority structures, responsibilities, benefits, etc. — that’s what it means to be a member of a local church.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Dani Van Nortwick
Links
Watch Out of Oz on YouTube
SonRise Community Church
John Piper
C. S. Lewis
Augustine
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With more than 500 million books sold, the Harry Potter series is far and away the highest-selling series of books in history. Though Rowling claims to be a Christian, and has said that her books are meant to expose the same truths as classic fantasies such as The Lord of the Rings and The Chronicles of Narnia, many Christians have objected to the stories for their perceived promotion of witchcraft. And this raises questions about the nature of fantasy, and entertainment in general. Is there a difference between the witchcraft condemned in the Bible and what is depicted in these stories? And, if so, what? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Adam Powers and Jeffrey Singer talk about the world of fantasy literature and entertainment in general, and how Christians should think about and approach these topics. “If we’re going to use the word witchcraft, and we’re going to condemn it, we need to make sure that the witchcraft written about by Rowling or Tolkein is the biblical witchcraft that is condemned in Scripture. I would argue strongly that it’s not inline with any biblical definition of sorcery or witchcraft, even though they use the words witchcraft or wizardry.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Adam Powers
Jeffrey Singer
Links
Watch Out of Oz on YouTube
SonRise Community Church
Harry Potter
The Lord of the Rings
John Milton
Andrew Peterson
The Pilgrim’s Progress
John Piper
J.K. Rowling
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There’s a lot of discourse around the Enneagram, its roots, and how popular it has become in modern progressive Christianity. But what exactly is it? Can it provide true insight into what makes us tick? Or is it a lot of smoke and mirrors? More than that, does the bible have anything to say about our personalities and what role the study of personality types should play in our lives? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest-hosts Whitney Tragos and Danielle Currin talk about the history of the Enneagram, it’s pros and cons, and what it should play in our lives as Christians. “Our primary identity is as Christians. There are so many things pulling for our identity in our day. I like all these things, but it’s very easy to get rooted in this is who I am, rather than I am righteous in Christ, I’m a child of God..” ~ Aaron Currin “They’re not perfect. They’re not inspired. But they are helpful tools, even as a Christian, to help identify things that are going to cause friction in our lives and relationships and that we need to work on. And we work on these things no by the power of the spirit, not the power of discovering our true selves —by the power of the spirit to mortify sin and walk in humility with Christ.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Whitney Tragos
Danielle Currin
Links
Watch Out of Oz on YouTube
The Enneagram
Myers-Briggs
StrengthsFinder
Harry Potter
Richard Rohr
Ian Cron
16 Personalities
Out of Oz Episode 005: Is Social Justice Biblical?
Gospel Enneagram
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It’s a heavy topic, but one of the most asked questions pastors receive. What is the ultimate fate of babies and the mentally handicapped? Historically, there has been much debate around this topic due to its emotional weight, and the lack of scriptural clarity. Yet, it touches many Christian doctrines, from the depravity of humanity to the character of God. This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest hosts Rick Reumann and Adam Powers discuss various approaches to this topic and how Christians should think through difficult themes in scripture.
Guest Hosts
Rick Reumann
Adam Powers
Links
Watch Out of Oz on YouTube
SonRise Community Church
Canons of Dort
Calvinism
Arminianism
Universalism
Covenant Theology
Westminster Confession of Faith
The Faith of Christopher Hitchens - Larry Taunton
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2020 brought with it a lot of pain and uncertainty. Whether political, personal, or cultural, it was a year of division. There’s a strong “us vs them” undercurrent to almost everything happening in the world right now. One of the things we heard often repeated was a call to defund the police. Where trust in governing authorities was nearly universal in generations past, we’re living in a day when the default position is one of skepticism, distrust, and even fear. As Christians, we’re called to respect our governing authorities. But how far does this extend? Does supporting your police department mean you’re supporting police brutality? And, if not, how do we show proper respect, while also not condoning evil? This week, Peter and Aaron are joined by Jason Haynor, a local firefighter, and Mike Trill, a local police officer, to discuss these questions, and how Christians are called to think about them. “The text that comes to mind when we deal with this is Romans 13. It says, “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God.” We need to keep that in mind. Police officers, politicians — they are his representatives. They’ve been put there for a reason. Even if they’re not honoring him in their works, God is the one ultimately who has put them there.” ~ Aaron
Guest Hosts
Mike Trill
Jason Haynor
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While this topic has been planned since November 2020, the riot that occurred at the U.S. Capitol on January 6th makes this discussion all the more pertinent. Should Christians support Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, and a democratic congress? If so, how? What does that look like? Or is there a place for resistance and revolution in the life of a believer? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest hosts Mike Trill and Jacob Roccanti discuss the current political unrest, and how Christians should respond to a new political administration, regardless of party affiliation. “Of everything that happened in 2020, the most disheartening thing has been seeing professing Christians clearly and obviously show that their allegiance to Trump far surpasses their allegiance to Jesus. It is sickening and problematic.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Jacob Roccanti
Mike Trill
Links
Watch Out of Oz on YouTube
Biden / Harris
Trump / Pence
John MacArthur
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There is probably no issue more highly-charged in modern America than the issue of race and racism. And front and center in that discussion is Black Lives Matter—both as a movement and an organization. We cannot call ourselves Christians and say that black lives (or any lives) don’t matter. The bible explicitly condemns racism. But the issue of Black Lives Matter is bigger than racism. It’s about words and definitions and politics and agendas. So what exactly are those words, definitions, policies, and agendas? Is there a difference between believing that black lives matter and supporting the Black Lives Matter organization? How do we overcome the division and hatred that surrounds this topic? How do we love each other well and righteously, as scripture calls us to do? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest hosts Dashawn Cousins, Sarah Haynor, and Aaron Profitt discuss these important questions, and how Christians can pursue love and unity in the midst of so much division. “If we’re not careful and wise with what we’re saying, we elevate other identities over our identity with Christ, and it’s causing this division. What’s really important is that we look at each other as God has designed us and we celebrate that. And what’s most important is that we are brothers and sisters in Christ. We’re united now.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Dashawn Cousins
Sarah Haynor
Aaron Profitt
Links
Watch Out of Oz on YouTube
Aletheia Church
Resurgence
Acts 29
Black Lives Matter
George Floyd
Woke Church: An Urgent Call for Christians in America to Confront Racism and Injustice - Eric Mason
John Piper
Tim Keller
Voddie Baucham
Doug Wilson
Eric Mason
The Statement on Social Justice and the Gospel
Out of Oz Ep 005: Is Social Justice Biblical?
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Pornography has been around for a long time, but it’s seen unprecedented growth in the last 30 years with the explosion of the internet. There are lots of arguments around porn and its uses in our culture. As Christians, we approach this topic from a very specific worldview, but even the wider non-Christian world is divided over whether porn is good or bad. Regardless of its rightness or wrongness, there’s no denying its impact on people. Whether through shame or addiction or the judgment of others, porn touches the majority of people in some way. This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest host Jimmy Trent discuss the topic of pornography, common questions and misunderstandings, as well as how we as believers should approach and think about it biblically. “If you’re really thinking biblically [about pornography], it’s impossible to justify. Even in marriage. There’s no way biblically that we’re going to be able to argue that Christ and the apostles are for that.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts Jimmy Trent
Links
Heart Song Counselling
The Good Men Project
Sex Addicted Christian
Addicted to Lust: Pornography in the Lives of Conservative Protestants by Samuel Perry
The Porn Phenomenon
Fight The New Drug
Lawyer You Know
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Demonic activity is a favorite topic of Hollywood and pop culture. And the church seems to respond in drastically different ways — either acting like it doesn’t exist or overplaying its importance. As Christians, how should we deal with the reality of demons and the spiritual realm? What’s the difference between our sinful nature and satanic influence? Is demonic activity a thing that used to exist, but doesn’t anymore? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest hosts Adam Powers and Rick Reumann discuss these questions and what the bible actually teaches about demonic activity in our lives and throughout history. “We tend to think of demonic activity in the church as this radically pernicious and obvious evil. Instead, could it just be sinister enough to dilute the gospel? What does Paul say about the Judaizers in Galatians? That’s a damnable, demonic heresy, and it’s just a slight perversion of the gospel — it’s Jesus plus works, right?” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Rick Reumann
Adam Powers
Links
SonRise Community Church
The Usual Suspects
The Exorcism of Emily Rose
Martin Luthor
Harry Potter
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Marriage is difficult. Even if you’re following Christ, two sinners living together is bound to cause some problems. And one of those problems is how much we take our cues about love and marriage from the culture around us rather than scripture. If we’re really honest with ourselves about what love truly is, the answer is going to be in contradiction to our modern western culture. That said, “falling out of love” is a very common, nearly universal, experience. So, the question becomes, what then? When you fall out of love with your spouse, and you don’t feel the sparks anymore, what do you do? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest hosts Tabitha Griffith and Jimmy Trent discuss what love is, how it’s defined by scripture, and what to do when it feels hopeless. “I think it comes down to your definition of love. [People] base it all on feelings. But if you’ve been in a relationship for a long time, you know there’s more to it than that. It doesn’t matter who you’re with.” ~ Tabitha Griffith
Guest Hosts
Jimmy Trent
Tabitha Griffith
Links
Mars Hill Church
Heart Song Counselling
The Good Men Project
Redeeming Love - Francine Rivers
Weekend to Remember
The Life of David Gale
Mere Christianity - C.S. Lewis
Augustine
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Should Christians celebrate alcohol? It’s a question with as many opinions as people answering it. While most Christians would agree that “being drunk” is sinful, they would probably disagree about the definition of drunkenness. The Bible commands us to celebrate God’s good gifts. But it also warns us about the dangers of alcohol. So, is alcohol a good gift of God that can and should be celebrated? Or is something that is at most permissible, but often unwise? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest hosts Dashawn Cousins and Tim Miller discuss these questions and look at what the Bible and church history actually teaches about alcohol and its consumption. “If it’s not universally prohibited, and it’s in its proper place, any of God’s good gifts can be celebrated.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Dashawn Cousins
Tim Miller
Links Lakeview Church Subscribe
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Technology is a wonderful thing that has given many of us the opportunity to stay somewhat connected during a global pandemic like Covid-19. But at what point does it start to hinder the very thing we as believers are called to do? What is the benefit of gathering in person? Does it matter if we show up at a building or watch from home? More importantly, is there a scriptural mandate to gather? And if so, why? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest hosts Daryn Kinney and Jenae Wahlberg discuss these questions and look at how the Bible defines what it means to “be the church”. “The church is God’s idea. We’re called to be his people, on mission, for his glory. And that looks like loving one another, walking in community, and practicing hospitality. But you can’t do that if you’re just staying home.” ~ Daryn Kinney
Guest Hosts
Daryn Kinney
Jenae Wahlberg
Links
Local Church St. Pete
DL Moody
The Village Church
John MacArthur
Elevation Church
John Piper
Hebrews 10:25
Acts 2
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Is social justice biblical? The obvious answer is yes. Very few Christians would say they don’t believe in social justice. But even fewer would be able to define exactly what the term means. Justice, social or otherwise, is a gospel issue. But depending on who you ask, the definition of “social justice” (and what exactly it means to believe in it and carry it out) can vary widely — especially in 2020. Is it about inherently biblical issues like caring for “widows and orphans” (James 1:27)? Or is it about equality in terms of modern critical theory? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest hosts Dashawn Cousins and Luke Sawyer discuss these questions and examine the roots of the modern social justice movement, including critical theory, intersectionality, Marxism, and how Christians should evaluate these issues in light of scripture. "A lot of the social justice we’ve heard in 2020 is an effort to rid the world of the hegemony, of the privileged oppressors, to level the playing field and put everyone on the same plane. The issue that exists among evangelicals is are we going to step into that vein and include in our definition of social justice the idea of oppression based on race, gender, sexuality, and so forth, or are we going to steer away from that.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Dashawn Cousins
Luke Sawyer
Links
Man Up and Go
Voddie Bauchum
George Floyd
Frankfurt School
Black Lives Matter
Tim Keller
Generous Justice by Tim Keller
Southen Baptist Convention
Critical Theory
Intersectionality
Antonio Gramsci
Matt Chandler
JD Greear
John MacArthur
James White
Black Hebrew Israelites
Jubliee
Why Social Justice Is Not Biblical Justice by Scott David Allen
Statement on Social Justice and the Gospel
Acts 29
The Gospel Coalition
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Can Christians curse? And what exactly is cursing? Are the scriptural passages that talk about what comes out of our mouths concerned primarily with the words themselves, or the heart and intention behind them? These are important questions that should, at the least, cause us to examine the words we use and why we use them. This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest hosts Dashawn Cousins and Tim Miller examine whether it’s possible to curse to the glory of God, or if certain words are always prohibited. “The culture doesn’t dictate for us what is right or wrong as the church. What’s socially acceptable in the culture is not an indicator of what’s acceptable for the church. By that same token, there might be things where the culture says, ‘You can’t say this’, that I don’t see a biblical prohibition against.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Dashawn Cousins
Tim Miller
Links
Lakeview Church
The first 2020 presidential debate
Ephesians 5:4
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What comes to mind when you think about 2020? For most of us, it’s been an extremely difficult year. And you might be tempted to think, where is God? Is he in control? Is he loving? And, if so, how can we make sense of the pain and suffering all around us? This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest hosts Rick Reumann and Adam Powers discuss the problem of evil and suffering in the world and what it says about the God of the Bible. “If you look at the whole work, and the trajectory from beginning to end, you’ll see the author’s main intention and where he wants to carry these people all the way through. And he’s not going to carry them away from suffering or apart from suffering to end, but he’ll carry them and hold onto them through the midst of it.” ~ @adamwpowers
Guest Hosts
Rick Reumann
Adam Powers
Links
SonRise Community Church
J.R.R. Tolkien
Lord of the Rings
The Chronicles of Narnia
C.S. Lewis
John Piper
Jonathan Edwards
The Gospel According to John (PNTC) by D.A. Carson
What’s Wrong with the World by G.K. Chesterton
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If anything is true of 2020, it’s that people are divided. Political elections always cause division. But for Christians, is the division and devastation a foregone conclusion? Regardless of our political affiliations, what is our responsibility toward each other as fellow believers and followers of Christ? For better or worse, how we respond to the results of this election (and the chaos of 2020 in general) will say something about us, what we value, and the condition of our hearts. This week, Peter, Aaron, and guest hosts Dashawn Cousins and Scott Taylor look at how Christians should engage with and respond to politics in modern America. “When we look at the election, are we seeking to unify the church? Are we seeing Jesus as king? Are we seeing him as sovereign and in control. How would Jesus respond if he were a 21st-century American? He would mourn over sin, he would mourn over the devastation. He prayed in John 17, at the end of his life, for the unity of the church, that his church would be unified, not around political policies and ideologies, but around the gospel, around him. That’s what I hope Christians will shoot for as the results come in.” ~ Aaron Currin
Guest Hosts
Dashawn Cousins
Scott Taylor
Links
Focus on the Family
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
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Just in time for America’s spookiest holiday, we decided to inaugurate our new podcast with a discussion of Halloween — where it comes from, its impact on culture, and whether or not it’s an appropriate holiday for Christians to celebrate. Wrapped up in this discussion is an examination of what the bible says about worldliness, compromise, and how believers should interact with the culture around them. "Christ isn’t against culture — that was clear even from his day. Some people feel that way because they have a view of worldliness that is very materialistic and very external. I believe scripture teaches that worldliness is an internal reality of the soul.” ~ Aaron Currin Out of Oz is a new podcast from BLDG 28 Church. Our goal is to peel back the layers of society and examine the world around us with the same themes we saw in The Wizard of Oz — courage, conviction, and compassion. Each week, hosts Peter Tragos and Aaron Currin (along with a rotating panel of guests) will discuss the issues we face in our everyday lives, and examine how we should deal with them, how we should think about them, and how we should live in light of them. New episodes will drop every Monday.
Guest Hosts
Dashawn Cousins
Tabitha Griffith
Links
The Wizard of Oz
What is culture?
Samhain Festival
Genetic fallacy
All Saints' Day
Martin Luther’s Ninety-five Theses
Protestant Reformation
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Out of Oz Podcast
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Most of us have seen or are familiar with The Wizard of Oz. It’s a story about a girl named Dorothy and her adventures in the land of Oz, a place of wonder and beauty. But all is not as it seems. Beneath the surface, there’s a dark and pernicious evil that exists and must be dealt with. When we look at Christianity and modern Christian culture in America, we see a lot of parallels. Division, sensationalism, and escapism are everywhere. We bury our heads in the sand and pretend all is well with the world. We act like the Bible is all about us, and about making our lives great and beautiful and wonderful. But not only is that way of looking at the world unrealistic, it’s also unbiblical. Out of Oz is a new podcast from BLDG 28 Church. Our goal is to peel back the layers of society and examine the world around us with the same themes we saw in The Wizard of Oz — courage, conviction, and compassion. Each week, hosts Peter Tragos and Aaron Currin (along with a rotating panel of guests) will discuss the issues we face in our everyday lives, and examine how we should deal with them, how we should think about them, and how we should live in light of them. New episodes will drop every Monday, starting October 26.
Subscribe
Out of Oz Podcast
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
Google Podcasts
Stay in touch
BLDG 28 Church
BLDG 28 on Facebook
BLDG 28 on Instagram
BLDG 28 on YouTube